>> From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2020 virtual brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and ecosystem partners. >> Hi, and welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Joep Piscaer, I'm covering KubeCon CloudNativeCon here remotely from the Netherlands. And I'm joined by Commvault, Mathew Pearson, he's a Senior Product Manager, as well as David Ngo, Vice President of Metallic Products and Engineering to talk about the cloud native space and data protection in the Cloud Native space. So both, welcome to the show. And I want to start off with kind of the why question, right? Why are we here obviously, but also why are we talking about data protection? I thought we had that figured out. So David, can you shed some light on how, data protection is totally different in the cloud native container space? >> Sure, absolutely, thank you. I think the thing to keep in mind is that, containers are an evolution and a revolution actually in the virtualization space in the cloud space. What we're seeing is that customers are turning more and more to SaaS based applications and infrastructure in order to modernize their data centers and their data state in their compute environments. And when they do that, they're looking for solutions that match how they deploy their applications. And SaaS for us is an important area of that space. So, Metallic is Commvault portfolio of SaaS delivered and SaaS native data protection capabilities and offerings to allow customers to take the advantage of the best SaaS that is easy to try, easy to buy, easy to deploy, no infrastructure required and combine that with the technology and experience of Commvault. It'll build over last 20 years to deliver an enterprise grade data protection solution delivered as SaaS. And so, with Kubernetes and deploying in the cloud and modernizing applications I think that's very appealing to customers to also be able to modernize their data protection. >> Yeah, so I get the SaaS part. I mean, SaaS is an important way of delivering services. It is especially in the mid-market, something customers prefer, they want to have that simplicity, that easy onboarding as well as the OPEX of paying a subscription fee instead of longer term fees. So, the delivery model makes sense that fits into, the paradigm of making it simple, getting started easily. I get that, but Metallic isn't a traditional backup solution in that sense, right? It's not backing up necessarily just physical machines or just virtual machines. It has a relevance in the cloud native space. And the way I understand it, and please, if you can shed some light on that, Matt, is how is it different? What does it do that kind of makes it stand apart? >> Yeah, look, what we've found is the application developers can be in control now. So it's not like a traditional backup, that's what's changed. At this point, the application developer is free to create the infrastructure that he or she needs. And that freedom has meant that a bunch of stateful applications, the apps that we didn't think were going to live in Kubernetes have made their way to Kubernetes and they're making their way fast. So why is Metallic different? Because it's taking its lead from the developer. So it's using things like namespaces and label selectors. So basically take input from the developer on what information is important and needs to be protected and then protecting it. So it's your easy button to keep that Kubernetes development protected while you keep pace with the innovation within the organization. >> So you raise a valid point, cloud native has many advantages. It also has an extra challenge to account for which is fragmentation, right? In the olden days, let's call it that. We had a virtual machine, maybe a couple dozen that made up an application. And it was fairly easy to pinpoint the kind of the sort of conference of an application. This is my application. But now with cloud native, applications data can basically live anywhere. In a single cloud vendor, in many different cloud accounts, across different services, even across the public clouds themselves, like in a true multi-cloud scenario and figuring out what is part of an application in that enormous fragmentation is a challenge I think is understated and underestimated in a lot of operational environments with customers, with their applications in production. And that's where I think a product needs to figure out how to make sure an application is still backed up, is still protected in the way that is necessary for that given application. So I wonder how that works with Metallic. How do you kind of figure out what part of that enormous fragmentation is part of a single application? >> Yeah, so Metallic effectively integrates and speaks natively with the kube-apiserver. So it's taking its lead from the system of truth which is the orchestrator, which is Kubernetes itself. So for example, if you say everything in your production namespace needs protection, every night or every four hours, whatever that may be, it steps out and asks Kubernetes what applications exist there. It then maps all of the associated API resources associated with that application including the persistent volumes and persistent volume claims, man throws up and grabs the data from them as well. And that allows us to then reapply or reschedule that application either back to that original cluster or to another one for application mobility, where they are. >> So how do you make sure you, it kind of, what's the central point where everything comes together for that given application? Is that something the developer does as part of their release process or as part of their CICD? How do you figure out what components are part of an application? >> That is definitely a big challenge in the industry today? So, today we use label selectors predominantly. We find developers have been educating us on what works for them. And they've said, "Our CICD system is going "to label everything associated with this app, "as namespaced, then non-named space resources. 'So just here, take my label, grab everything under that, "and you will be good." The reality is that doesn't work for every business. Some businesses drop things into a specific namespace. And then you've got the added challenge that all of your data doesn't actually just live in Kubernetes. What about your image registries? What about it HCD? What about your Source Code Control and CICD systems? So we're finding that even VMs as well are playing a part in this ecosystem right now until applications can fully migrate. >> Yeah, and then let's zoom out on that a little bit. I mean, I think it's great that developers now kind of have flipped the paradigm where backup and data protection used to be something squarely in the OPS domain. It's now made its way into the .dev domain where it's become fairly easy to tag resources as application X, application Y, and then it automatically gets pulled into the backup based on policies. I mean, that's great, but let's zoom out a little bit and figure out, why is this happening? Why are developers even being put in a position of backing up their applications? So David, do you want to shed some light on that for me? >> Sure, I think data protection is always going to be a requirement and you'll have persistent data, right? There are other elements of applications that will always need to be protected and data protection is often something that is an afterthought, but it's something that needs to be considered from the beginning. And Metallic in being able to support deployments, not just in the cloud, but on-premises as well. We support any number of certified distributions of Kubernetes, gives you the flexibility to make sure that there was apps and that data is protected no matter where it lives. Being able to do that from a single pane of glass, being able to manage your Kubernetes deployments in different environments is very important there. >> So let's dive into that a little bit. I hear you say, Certified Kubernetes Distributions. So what's kind of the common denominator we need to use Metallic in an environment? Because I hear On-Prem, I hear public cloud. So it seems to me like this is a pretty broad product in terms of what it supports in its scope. But what's the lowest common denominator for instance, in the On-Prem environment? >> Sure, so we support all CNCF certified distributions of Kubernetes today. And in the cloud, we support Azure with AKS and AWS with EKS. So you can really use the one Metallic environment, the one interface to be able to manage all of those environments. >> And so what about that storage underneath? Is that all through CSI? >> Yes. So we support CSI on the backend of the Kubernetes applications, and we can then protect all the data stored there. >> And so how does this, I mean, you acquired Hedvig about a year ago, I want to say. Not sure on the exact date, but you acquired Hedvig a little while ago. So how does that come into play in Metallic offering? >> Sure, the Hedvig distributed storage platform is a fantastic platform on which to provision and scale Kubernates's applications and clusters. And that having full integration with Kubernetes on the storage side, we support that natively and really builds on the value that Commvault can bring as a whole with all of its offerings as a platform to Kubernetes. >> All right. So, zooming out just a little more, I want to get a feel for the cover of the portfolio of Commvault, as we're ushering into this cloud native era, as we're helping customers make that move and make that transition. What's the positioning of Metallic basically in the transformation customers are going through from On-Prem kind of lift and shift cloud into the cloud native space? >> Yeah, so with today's announcements, our hybrid cloud support and our hybrid cloud initiatives really help customers manage data wherever it lives as I've mentioned earlier. Customers can start with workloads On-Prem and start protecting workloads that they either have migrated or starting to build in the cloud natively and really cover the gamut of infrastructure and hypervisors and file systems and storage locations amongst all of these locations. So from our perspective, we think that hybrid is here to stay, right? There are very few customers who are either going to be all on-premises or all in the cloud. Most customers have some requirement that keeps them in a hybrid configuration, and we see that being prevalent for quite some time. So supporting customers in their transformation, right? Where they are moving applications from on-premises to the cloud, either refactoring or lift and shift, or what have you. It's very important to them, it's very important for us to be able to support that motion. And we look forward to helping them along the way. >> Awesome, so one last question for Matt. I mean, Metallic is a set of servers, right? That means you run it, you operate it, you build it. So I wonder, is Metallic itself cloud native? How does it scale? What are kind of the big components that Metallic has made up of? >> So Metallic itself is absolutely cloud native. It is sitting inside Azure today. I won't go into all the details. In fact, David could probably provide far more detail there. But I think Metallic is cloud native with respect to the fact that it's speaking natively to your applications, your cloud instances, your Vms. And then it's giving you the agility and the ability to move them where you need them to be. And that's assisting people in that migration. So in the past, we helped people get from P to V. Now that there are virtualized, applications like Metallic can protect you wherever you are and get you to wherever you need to be, especially into your next cloud of choice. And there's always another cloud. What I'm interested to see and what I'm hoping to see out of KubeCon is how are we doing with KubeVirt and Kubernetes becoming the orchestrator of the data center. And how are we doing with some of these other projects like application CRDs and hierarchical namespaces that are truly going to build a multi-tenanted software defined, distributed application ecosystem, that Metallic I can speak natively to via Kubernetes. >> Awesome. Well, thank you both for being with me here today. I certainly learned a ton about Metallic. I learned a lot about the challenges in cloud native that'll certainly be an area of development in the next couple of years. As you know, that the CNCF will continue to support projects in this space and vendors to work with us in that space as well. So that's it for now. I'm Joep Piscaer, I'm covering for KubeCon here remotely from the Netherlands. I will see you next time, thanks. (bright upbeat music)

from around the globe it's thecube with coverage of kubecon and cloudnativecon north america 2020 virtual brought to you by red hat the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners and welcome back to thecube's coverage of kubecon cloudnativecon 2020 virtual i'm john furrier your host of thecube we are thecube virtual normally we're in person this year with the pandemic we have to do the remote interviews and uh wish we could be there but it's gonna be a great conference a lot of learning a lot of great conversations a lot of great community a lot of great companies who are riding the cloud weight native wave and doing it right one company pleased to have the gm here on from commvault ventures metallic io monognaire gm metallic dot io commvault ventures is it a spin out no it's great to see you first welcome welcome back to thecube great to see you thank you thank you good to be here good good to be back with you guys so you're a cube alumni i've been on many times you're now heading up this venture um metallic io which is doing extremely well good you know case of great timing and good good savvy business planning and strategic vision um and execution um but i want to just kind of get something straight real quick is it a spin out of com commvault is it a separate company what's the relationship with metallic io and commvault yeah so it's set up as a you know as a complete startup um it's uh incubated and fully owned by commvault uh but you know we have our you know full full company just like running my separate startup you know metallic is set up as a startup and uh you know it's uh some people joke right you know it's like one of those millennial kids you know i get to have a deep pocketed parent commvault and access to a lot of ip and great customers at the same time be a startup and drive fast in this cloud native sasquatch yeah we also have the microsoft you know deep partnership so that's the other angle here with metallic having a deep strategic partnership with microsoft you know the theme this year and all the shows especially kubecon in particular is modern application but speed speed and relevance right that's critical congratulations good to have a boss sanjay over there looking over your shoulder but you got freedom you're running hard as a startup and you got a good track record take me through real quick give a quick business update before we get into some of the container conversations you guys really caught the tailwind of covid kind of like the zoom caught a big tail because everyone's doing video now cloud endpoint protection i mean come on everyone's at home everyone's at the edge edge point protection i mean tell us give some quick updates absolutely you know a year plus since we launched it um i think initially the company was thinking metallic would be really good fit for the mid market and maybe the low end enterprise was always built to be enterprise grade and you know come march all of us get you know stunned by what's happening in the world we decided to make our endpoint offer available free for our customers jointly with microsoft and all it was not mid market i mean i had fortune 15 companies signing up we had the biggest of the big several of them have now become you know customers of our spa paying customers of us one of the world's largest insurance company came in that way and signed up for all their users to end up being paying customers and you think about like protecting endpoints right that's uh you know all the bad things kind of happened in droves so you have covet happening people going remote and ransomware and cyber attacks taking off 400 as the fbi is saying and that kind of becomes a very high risk point so to be able to have not just data protection but ransomware detection on those edge devices i think companies are really starting to see the the value of uh having that kind of a you know data protection as a service model well congratulations on on the timing on that i'll say there's no such thing as luck as preparation meets opportunity as the expression goes but i get why it makes sense with the pandemic but can you explain why cloud-based container protection is good for customers beyond the obvious you just mentioned what else is there what are some of the downs down downstream benefits as people come out of you know it uh you know the the uh things that people are accelerating right it's uh okay we've got to take care of the basics we talked about endpoint then it's cloud adoption um productivity suites like o365 with teams you know took off as you were talking about zoom and how do you protect that you know how do you protect all that data being created now in a platform that uh you were not protecting so that was kind of that next immediate wave and now what we're seeing is the hybrid cloud adoption is taking off now containers in my mind are intricately linked with in this hybrid cloud journey right these are the apps that people build this is your sensitive most important ip and you know how as enterprises adopt containers it's one of the paths to the cloud and it is really the most recommended plan is you take microservices you re-platform re-architect use containers to deliver microservices and these are enterprise applications so they have state and so with stateful applications you know how do you make sure that you have a cloud-native data protection available for them the second issue is the developers who are adopting and deploying containers in production they don't want to be going out deploying software to protect you know these things they want a i just want an api a service call in the cloud and they should do what i you know i do like any other cloud native service so you know cloud native protection that we're delivering for containers with our announcement today for metallic is is huge in that it behaves like a native cloud service just like you know a developer wants an api call with a cloud target no setup nothing and it's up and running yeah i mean cloud native is clear this year at kubecon this is the tipping point of you know full mainstream adoption of kubernetes and microservices so that means it's going to be impacted right so that means you know we're all early adopters let's face it we're at a point now where it's it's gone beyond test and dev and cluster testing you know kubernetes has now reached a point where it's penetrating and proliferating rapidly so i got to ask you the announcements about metallic for kubernetes as part of the broader portfolio expansion explain how that fits in because you mentioned hybrid cloud you got um back up as a service you got recovery i mean the world's changed who would have thought everyone's gonna be working at home how do you back that up that's service disruption so you know non-disruptive operations always been kind of a cliche but now you got a complicated operation how does the kubernetes fit into the broader portfolio absolutely so so it is part of a three new announcements uh the new new solutions we're announcing today all connected to this hybrid journey and you think about that hybrid journey and part of what happens with hybrid you know got all these paths rewrite re-platform re-host and uh part you know you got this whole desegregation of data and compute also happening so our offerings are you know there's a metallic for virtual machines and kubernetes uh as a service uh we've got metallic for database uh delivered as a service and metallic for unstructured data file an object and all of those are key parts of a you know cloud native stack you'll have some you know rds some some you know azure managed sql some blob storage and we had to protect all those patterns in different ways at the same time virtual machines are not going away they're going to be there and you know a lot of people say that container is a new virtual machine so what we have done is we have introduced the vm and kubernetes module but anyone who buys that gets container protection for free so anyone who buys that for the next six months for the lifetime of the subscription they get unlimited kubernetes backup as a service uh for free the reason we're doing that is just we want to make sure especially our early adopters are taking full advantage and and they're not compromising on the data protection for this cloud native application as they think through this transition you know that's a good business model also i mean you're in the cloud right so this is leverage you've got some leverage there yeah that's the new freemium we'll give you a full protection you know what's the gimmick here there's no there's no trick you get it for free it's good because you're going to make money on other air again this is the whole benefit of the new kind of freemium sas you're in an enterprise model so yeah you take care of people you make it up on the critical infrastructure i get that is that kind of how it's working it's exactly you know what uh we're thinking you know look today um you know i saw saw some stats out there 75 percent of the people who are adopting containers are not yet thinking about you know data protection for containers has to be container optimized you can't just say okay you know the data is in the vm i'll just do a snapshot and it'll be fine now what about all of the container specific you know namespaces tags the config maps pod you cannot recover this cluster if you don't have a real container native solution and so that you know for part of the thought leadership and education process we said let's let's start by just making it available take all the excuses out and that really you know i think over time our customers are going to really benefit from our approach there well while i got you here i want to just grab you uh for a quick definition master class so we see b-a-a-s not to be confused with sas or p pass platform as a service b stands for backup as a service right everything's as a service these days that's what cloud's great for could you can you define what that is from with a cloud standpoint because i mean backup as a service it could mean many things but for as you guys are doing because you have success it's working what is baas that's as a what is backup as a service what is definition yeah so backup as a service in my mind and some people call it cloud native backup really includes delivering you know turnkey experience turnkey consumption model i should be able to go sign up like any other as a service free try it if i like it immediately do an online experience to you know acquire it and be up and running our design goal was first backup even for a complex enterprise workload should be less than 15 minutes from from transaction today we're able to do it in a matter of minutes all the way from acquisition to being up and running so i'd say that's part of the definition part of the definition is never having to maintain your backup software ever that's not your responsibility we take care of that it's always updated we're using the best of uh cloud you know capabilities to do sre ops and maintain that in a very scalable 24 7 way security of the service you know between us and all the security capabilities we provide ransomware detection and all that and building on top of azure's foundation of 3500 security engineers you know that's the key component you should not have to worry this is your data your most critical the last part is cloud adoption is complicated enough for customers they shouldn't have to worry about things like egress costs and you know am i going to get nickel and dime for the service over ages and so just price transparency is a big part that we have focused on so you know our customers are double 365 they don't have to ever pay for any storage unlimited storage no egress costs and the whole thing is a turnkey service so that's the kind in my mind that's backup as a service yeah and pay as you go it's classic and i love that love the the hidden cost thing you mentioned this demand obviously out there earlier in the interview what's driving the demand besides kovid what are some of the architectural shifts that you're seeing and does it have um the same characteristics in all geographies because remember you're talking cloud you're talking regions right so you know what's the driving the demand besides covid and what's the regional impact around the world no they were seeing a global impact uh you know we had a plan to have a multi-year global rollout plan and in the last six months we have now in 14 countries around the globe and that just maps to the interest uh you know we're we're in australia and new zealand where we just launched 10 european countries last month in the u.s canada of course and that global journey is what we're seeing with our customers so you know that the pain points you know the covet crisis the economic shift uh the need to be as a service those are the things that are really driving um we we talked about remote work we talked about teams adoption really driving o365 and people think oh 365 you know there's some you know folks who just think mailboxes but you know you've seen news stories out there with what happens with config changes to teams that just blows out all the all the chat sessions and so people understand the need for data protection there hybrid i.t containers rapid cloud adoption probably the biggest one is ransomware you know we launched this metallic cloud storage service that is an air gap ransomware cloud storage that can connect to any commvault customer they don't even have to be a metallic sas customer and that's had a you know on day two we had two and a half petabytes on up and running you know our first customer and it's just taken off so you know all of those are the trends that that are today driving uh you know customer adoption uh off uh you know of our solution uh along with everything else that customers are trying to do mineos i got to ask you a personal question you're the gm which basically means you're the ceo of the commvault startup but we'll call you a gm are you having fun well i'm having a lot of fun i mean this is uh probably the most fun i've had in a long time uh and look when you are doing things that are really impactful for me you know that's uh you know i'm sitting in my startup uh you know garage here in the bay area yeah and you know touching customers around the world we have a global team uh and it's it's been uh it's a challenging year right from a human uh perspective for for all the you know all of the folks who are impacted by this and our teams are part of that journey and so their personal lives that that are difficult but we're all you know working on this very very interesting and i think you know disruptive but impactful uh offering that we can see how it touches our customers wells and i think that's partly what's kept the team and all of us doing so yeah we're having a lot of fun well we're fellow travelers we're not on site anymore i mean we did an interview in 2015 you and i were talking with docker back in 25 years ago and you're still on point now you're on the wave you got to be mindful of the current situation around you and understand reality and it's a chance to do things differently from the customer you know backwards in not inside out so you know it's it's fun to have a new category but also it's it's a big wave you don't want to be as pat gelsinger said driftwood if you make the wrong move so well keep keep keep plugging you're on the right track thanks for coming on thank you john really appreciate the time maneuver gm of metallic dot io check it out it's a it's a separate company from commvault that funded it doing cloud as a service back backup as a service in the cloud very innovative very smart thanks for coming on my notes i'm john furrier with thecube virtual for kubecon cloudnativecon 2020. thanks for watching [Music] you

>> I'm Lisa Martin with theCUBE. From all of us here at Silicon Angle Media, we want to wish Metallic a happy first birthday. We were at the Metallic launch last year at Commvault Go 2019. Talked to a lot of folks, have seen what the Metallic team has accomplished in its first 12 months, such as the expansion of the product portfolio, expansion into new geographies and we're looking forward to seeing what Metallic does in it's second year. Happy birthday.

(royalty free music) >> Woman's voice: From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a cube conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman coming to you from our Boston area studio and this is a special cube conversation. I have a special announcement from our friends at Commvault. So welcome back to the program. We have two of our cube alumni. First, we have Manoj Nair, he's actually the general manager of Metallic, which is a Commvault venture. First time Manoj on the program in your role with, with Commvault, welcome back. And also welcoming back Ranga Rajagopalan who's the vice president of products at Commvault. Ranga, caught up with you recently at the FutureReady event that we had over the summer. Thanks so much for joining us again. >> Sure. >> Alright. So Manoj, let's start. Metallic obviously was, you know, the standout you know, thing that everybody talked about last year at Commvault GO. Really helping to, you know, put Commvault clearly into the SaaS marketplace out there. Talking about how, you know, all the wonderful features for managing my data in a cloud environment. So there is an expansion to the portfolio that we're announcing today. Why don't you share the news? >> Yeah, absolutely Stu, you know, it's great to be back here with all of you and Metallic has come a long way from the launch. Just less than a year ago, we announced the creation of Metallic multiple different offerings whether it's protecting SaaS workloads like O365, remote endpoints and a hybrid cloud workloads. You know, the context that we're getting from our customers, especially in the last six months, increased cloud adoption and, you know, remote working collaboration suites being adopted. All of that has been a great accelerator for adoption of SaaS data protection, which is really what the Metallic is offering. We have gone to global countries and expanded to our Commvault customer base who was, you know, using both Commvault software and Metallic now. One of the key things that we're not, you know, today's announcement is focused on a Metallic cloud storage service that as a new service available for Commvault customers are looking to get a, you know, fully managed secure cloud-based SaaS target for protecting all of the data as an air gap copy and this is, you know, is more relevant than ever. >> So Manoj, using the cloud for data protection, for backup isn't new? Ranga, help us understand. I heard in there air gap, I heard, you know, leveraging the cloud. Absolutely, we've seen a huge tailwind for cloud adoption but there's that gap for making sure customers, you know, protect their data, secure their data. Do they have the skillset to be able to leverage that, so help help us drill in and understand what's different about this new service >> You're right Stu. Cloud is absolutely not new but what is really unique about today's announcement with metallic cloud storage service is that we are bringing cloud even closer to our Commvault customers. So thinking from a data management perspective, our customers want to more easily and securely get the benefits of cloud storage. What we are doing today is integrating Metallic cloud storage service as a cloud storage target into our Commvault software as well as our HyperScale X plans. And that lets our customers to seamlessly use cloud storage for their data protection, backup and archival use cases without needing to understand a lot about the cloud, without needing to get through any of the complexities. Think of it as the easy button that is now introduced into the Commvault software and HyperScale X. >> All right, so, if I heard you right, this is a managed service that Commvault is offering. Did I get that right? >> That's fast. >> Yeah >> So, you know, it's a managed service. It's public cloud storage. It's, as Ranga said, the easy button to be able to create your air gap copies in the cloud. And, you know, with everything that we keep hearing about ransomware, and we believe this is one of the, the, the most important steps in ransomware readiness, a lot of our customers are already doing it by bringing their own cloud storage on all the clouds we protect, but it's still not easy. And this is a skills gap, you know, the procurement process and all of that, you know, the management of the credentials, the setting up of the networking, all of that is encapsulated. So now, it's just, you know, it's like a built-in feature, just, you know plug it in and now you've got an on-ramp to the cloud. Make sure you have your air gap copy. >> Yeah, maybe it would help if you'd, if you'd talk about the easy button, give us a little compare contrast 'cause, right, I could go, I could spin up instance of the cloud, but, you know, who has access? What are the security settings? There's a whole litany of things that I need to make sure I've got the right identity management. It's kind of easy, but not necessarily simple to, to be able to do that. So from what you're describing I don't even need to really think, you know, yes, it's in the cloud, I'm leveraging all the wonderful things of the cloud, but I don't have to have that, that ramp up of skillset if I don't already have that in house as... Ranga, sounds like I'm understanding that. >> Yeah >> You know. >> Yeah, you're perfectly understanding and that's all there is to it. And let me expand on the PC part there, right? For us, simplicity is into end-customer experience. So I'm going to break this down from a customer life cycle perspective. Think of a Commvault customer who's backing up pretty much all the workloads in the data center. The first question they have is, you know, "For security reasons "for easy, or because I'm in a transformation project "I need to make, I need to start using cloud storage." So the first complexity they would face is understanding which cloud provider to use, what kind of cloud profile to use? or who their cloud or chasing model, which is very different from how they normally procure their hardware and software. So that's really the first dimension of simplicity that this Metallic cloud storage offer. Our customers can procure their cloud storage along with any other Commvault software and hardware just like they would do any other Commvault software. So that's the first level of simplicity. The second one is "How do I bring "that into my data management life cycle." And again, as I mentioned before, MCSS is fully integrated into Commvault software. So through the simplicity of command center, which is the one UI that brings all our products together, customers can just click to the cloud storage target and start backing up, moving copies, archiving, doing all the data management use cases, the second dimension of simplicity. And the third one really is the predictability. You know, cloud is beautiful, It brings a lot of flexibility, but it also brings in a lot of new terms. What are the egress charges? What does ingress mean? What does egress mean? What happens when I have the V store? What happens when I have the Ricola? So all of that complexity is taken away. We handle all of that in the backend. From the customer's perspective, just like they use CAP, just like they use the Desk, now, they can use cloud. We handled all the egress and all those kind of stuff in the backend. From the customer's perspective, they get a simple, predictable price point. So from the time of choosing, procuring it, using it and continuously getting the best benefits out of it, the easy button extends across that entire dimension. And the beauty in all of this is customers getting all the benefits of cloud without having to really understand much about cloud. So that's really the benefit we bring to the table with MCSS. >> Yeah. Manoj, Commvault has a long history of being able to live on, you know, various infrastructures that customers have. Are you able to share who the, I'm assuming there's a cloud partner for part of this, so who is the, the underlying IS? >> Yeah, so still, you know, end of June doing, we announced the next phase of our strategic partnership with Microsoft. So this is a, you know, one of the first big, new things that is coming out of the giant partnership between Commvault and Microsoft around Metallic and Microsoft Azure. There's a lot of things that, you know, we're jointly doing that are unique that make all of the simplicity Ranga, you know, just mentioned, come to life and, you know, that's, you know, power of the end as I call it. It's Commvault and Metallic and Microsoft, you know, coming together to make this really easy for our customers to start getting the value out of leveraging cloud for the data protection. Yeah. >> Well, Manoj, it seems natural extension of what you've already talked about for what Metallic can protect. Of course, you've got the, you know, the business suite from Microsoft, can you help frame it for us, you know, where this new, the MCSS fits in the Metallic portfolio today? >> Yeah absolutely. So if you look at, you know, what... I'll give you a customer journey and what's been happening. If you are not a Commvault customer today and you're looking at "What's my best 0365 data protection option," if you go to microsoft.com, you'll actually find Metallic in there as the recommended offer. And they, they might start the journey there or you're an existing Commvault customer and you start rapidly adopting teams and O365, you know, post COVID. The, the, you know, Metallic is the default option. So it doesn't matter how you enter in, you're now getting a full, you know, SaaS actual backup as a service, no storage costs, no egress costs. And so our Commvault customers have been asking, "We love that part of it, why not make that available "for all of the other data that is being protected "by Commvault, either appliance or software on-prem?" and, you know, in a very simple way, it's, you know, the best things are driven by customers. And in this case, our customers came to us and said, "We love the simple button "not just what's included in the Metallic service, "we would like that that to be available, even for, "you know, the existing software you're protecting on-prem "for the air gap copy use case is kind of the biggest one." And you know, all of the things that Ranga said in terms of simplicity now comes to bear. And it's something that we were including inside the Metallic SaaS offerings. Now, it's available for software and appliance customers. >> Yeah. I definitely, I've heard of the industry now. Microsoft seems a little bit more amenable to, you know, not charging for egress, with some of their partners, when they put together these solutions. Ranga, Manoj has mentioned air gap a couple of times, can you help us frame, you know, what that means today? You know, I even think back, you know, ape that most people are familiar with. Even, I think about, you know, Google, you know, use ape for many years even in the public cloud to give that air gap. Of course, we've talked to your customers lots about how to protect against ransomware. So how does, how does this fit in the new solution? >> You know, unfortunately, Stu today. It's, it's important reality for us to discuss the ransomware readiness. Number of attacks are going up depending on, you know, which your source you are listening to. So security is a very important concern in top of our customers' minds. Now, MCSS is cloud storage, so it is off site storage. So it comes with all the natural layered security that it's built into cloud storage. Additionally, Commvault brings a complete ransomware protection, protection and recovery framework, which becomes inherently available with the MCSS. And let me explain that in a few very simple quotes. Now, the entire journey from on-prem to the cloud storage is completely encrypted. So that's, you know, a very important part of the order on security mechanism, but here is where it really becomes cool Commvault software is managing the cloud credentials, the cloud keys. So the entire access to MCSS as a cloud storage target is managed to Commvault. So there isn't an independent cloud admin accessing that storage, which opens it up for any kind of an intentional or unintentional access. Anything can happen when you allow that access. So Commvault completely manages that access the keys are owned by the customer, but managed by a Commvault. So it's a really air gap security, layered security mechanism that you get in combination with the entire framework of air gap isolation, anomaly protection, the authentication, everything that is built into the Commvault framework. So when you, when you bring in the simplicity that we talked about earlier, you can apply that to the security angle as well here. Instead of making the customer manage yet another piece in the jigsaw, we are managing it for them. So from their perspective, it is a seamless extension to their data management strategy while it also adds an extra layer of security and a readiness to recover from ransomware attacks. >> While it's being launched today, we already have customers that have, you know, we have accelerated into adoption of MCSS and it's coming exactly for the scenarios Ranga just said. You know, they, they have a requirement for a cloud copy. If you have seen that on the Metallic SaaS side that some of the customers might be in pilot mode. And because they were in pilot mode, they were quickly able to recover from attacks that happened. Unfortunately, those, those things are reality. And we have had customers who after the attack go and say "I want to make sure it's much easier to recover from that." And so we already have our first customers who are starting to adopt the service even as we launch it today. >> Well. I'm so glad you brought up the customer examples. Manoj, give us a little bit just the high level view, you talked about the growth and adoption of Metallic overall, and you just talked about kind of the, the single management. You got any SaaS for us, you know, how much data do you have in the cloud now and, you know, what's the growth looking like? And talk a little bit about, you know, what we can expect going forward from this portfolio. >> Yeah, I, you know, I don't know how many people disclose this or not, but we have disclosed it in the past, we have over an exabyte of data today in the cloud that, you know, our customers are, you know, either using a Metallic or bringing their own cloud with Commvault and writing to the cloud. So, you know, that's probably, you know, best in class out there. What we are also seeing is the acceleration of that, you know, so we look at it's, you know, it's exponential growth over a hundred percent, you know, we're, we're seeing that, that rise in leverage yet it's something that when you look at the overall industry percentages, it depends on whose stats you use, it's probably only 5%, maybe 10% that are leveraging the cloud for anything, whether it's, you know, in this case, it's data, cloud data as a secondary target. So there's a lot of untapped potential. And the things that Ranga said I think really are the ones our customers are telling us as we tested this out. And those are the biggest reasons. Right cost, you know, I'm concerned about it. I've heard that it's unpredictable. It goes up, people start spinning up other things that they shouldn't be. And so I want predictable costs, you know, security and the whole model around it, the, the governance of the keys, and finally skills, everyone's busy, no one's trying to not be, you know, upping their cloud skills yet it's not something that is very, you know, very easy for most people to, you know, become an expert. And if you're not an expert while you're protecting your data, that's not, you know, that's not something you want to do, so you kind of hold back. And I think this is really the biggest thing that customers are looking at, like our cloud expertise packaged in an offering solving all those things? >> And Stu, we discussed this at FutureReady of how the Commvault portfolio continues to come closer and closer together in order to deliver that increased value to our customers. In July, when we were having a similar conversation, we saw how Hedvig came in as the scale load storage in our HyperScale X integrated data protection plans. And we can see that we have Metallic Cloud Storage Service coming in as a cloud extension to our software, as well as HyperScale X. So it's kind of bringing the best of both worlds, customers who want to continue to stay on for them, protect their on-prem workloads with on-prem footprint. You have HyperScale X as a very nice scale, which integrated our plans. And as the capacity needs increase, as the security needs increase, you have MCSS now as a managed storage extension, bringing together those pieces of the portfolio. Now, the thing that is now available already as of September 15 is our ability to manage Metallic as part of command center. So while you want that SaaS flexibility and you're using Metallic to protect the SaaS workloads let's also realize that there are a bunch of other workloads that you might be protecting using Commvault software all through HyperScale. We can now bring all of them together into the simplicity of command center. So it, again, takes away another point of complexity for the customer. Just one UI, go ahead, do protect the workloads the way you want. With the form factor you want. SaaS software, or our plans, and we bring it all together into a single management framework for you. So you're going to continue seeing the portfolio coming closer together because our prime concern is to provide flexibility of choice to customers. Flexibility of choice in so many different ways, you know, you can use software, our plans or SaaS. You can bring your own on-prem storage, cloud storage, or if you want to hit the simple button, use Metallic clouds for it. So, so you're going to see that happen as we move forward. >> Well. Manoj, Ranga, thank you so much for the updates. Congratulations on the launch. Love little tagline leading it. We're we're making the cloud just a little bit closer to us. >> It is, >> It is a lot closer. >> Thank you. Thank you Stu for your time. >> Thank you. >> I'm Stu Miniman. Thank you so much for watching theCUBE. (royalty free music)

(lighthearted music) >> We're here now with Manoj Nair, who's the general manager of Metallic and Dave Totten CTO with Microsoft. And we're going to talk about some of the announcements that we heard earlier today and what Metallic and Microsoft are doing to meet customer needs around cyber threats and ensuring secure cloud data management. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Thanks Dave. >> Thank you. >> Hey Manoj, let me start with you. We heard early this morning, Dave Totten was here, David Noe, talk a lot about security. Has the conversation changed, how has it changed when you talk to customers, Manoj? What's top of mind. >> Yeah, thank you, Dave. And thank you, Dave Totten. You know, great conversation earlier. Dave, you and I have talked about this in the past, right? Security long a big passion of mine. You know, having lived through nation state attacks in the past and all that. We're seeing those kinds of techniques really just getting mainstream, right? Ransomware has become a mainstream problem in the scourge in our lives. Now, when you look at it from a lens of data and data management, data protection, backup, all of this was very much a passive you know, compliance centric use case. It was pretty static you know, put it in tapes, haul it all over. And what has really changed with this ransomware and cybercrime change rate is data, which is now your most precious asset, is under attack. So now you see security teams, just like you talked with Dave Martin, from ADP earlier, they are looking for that bridge between SecurityOps and ITOps. That data management solution needs to do more. It needs to be part of an active conversation, you know? Not just, you know, recovery readiness. Can you ensure that, are you testing that, is it recoverable? That is your last mile of defense. So then you get questions like that from security teams. You get you know, the need for doing more, signals. Can I get better signals from my data management stack to tell me I might be under attack? So what we're seeing in the conversation is the need to have more active conversations around data management and the bridge between ITOps and SecurityOps is really becoming paramount for our customers. >> Yeah, Dave Totten I mean, I often say that I think data protection used to be this bolt on. Now it's a fundamental component of the digital business stack. Anything you would add to what Manoj just said. >> Yeah, I would just say exactly that. Data is an asset, right? We talked about it a lot about the competitive advantage that customers are now realizing that no longer is IT considered sort of this cost center element. We need to be able to leverage our interactions with customers, with partners, with supply chains, with manufacturers, we need to be able to leverage that to sort of create differentiation and competitive advantage in the marketplace. And so if you think about it, as that way as the fuel for economic profitability and business growth, you would do everything in your power to secure it, to support it, to make sure you had access to it, to make sure that you didn't have you know, bad intent users accessing it. And I think we're seeing that shift with customers as they think more about how to be more efficient with their investments in information technology and then how just to make sure that they protect the lifeblood of their businesses. >> Yeah, and that just makes it harder because the adversary is very capable. They're coming in through the digital supply chain. So it's complicated. And so Dave and maybe Manoj, you can comment as well after, Microsoft and Commvault, you guys have been working together for decades and so you've seen a lot of the changes, a lot of the waves. So I'm curious as to how the partnership has evolved. You've got a recent strategic announcement around Azure with Metallic. Dave, take us through that. >> Yeah, I mean you know, Commvault and Microsoft aren't newlyweds, we've been together now for 25 plus years. We send each other anniversary gifts, all that good stuff. And you know, listen, there's a couple things that are key to our relationship. One, we started believing in each other's engineering organizations, right? We hire the best, we train and retain the best. And we both put a lot of investment behind our infrastructure and the ability to work together to really innovate at real time, rapid speeds. Two, we use Commvault products so you know, there's no greater I think, advantage that if a major supplier or platform partner like Microsoft uses your products. We've used it for years in our Xbox group to support and store the data for a hundred million XBox live users. And we're very avid with it with our data centers, our access to Azure data centers, our Microsoft office products. And so we use Commvault services as well. And through that mutual relationship you know, obviously Commvault has seen the ins and outs of what's great about our services and where we're continuing to build and invest. And so they've been able to really you know, dedicate a team of engineers and architects to support all that Azure as a platform, as a service can provide. And then how to take the best of those features and build it into their own first party products. I think when you get close enough to somebody for so many years right, 25 plus years, you figure out what they're great at and you learn to take those advantages like Commvault has with Microsoft and Azure and use it to your advantage, right? To build the best in class product that Metallic actually is. And you're right, the announcement this week it feels culminating, it feels like it's a major milestone in first off, industry innovation but also in our relationship. But it's really not that big of a step change from what we've been doing and building and innovating on for the past you know, 25 years. >> Yeah so Manoj, that's got to be music to your ears. Because you come at it with this rich data protection stack, Microsoft there's so many capabilities. One of the courses, which is Azure. It's like the secret weapon, it's become the secret weapon. How do you think about that relationship, Manoj? >> Absolutely Dave said it right. We are strong partners, 25 years, founding in Western Commvault, mutual customers, partnership. You know, really when you look at it from a customer lens, what our customers have appreciated, over the last year of that strengthening of that partnership basically the two pillars of Commvault the leader of data protection, or you know, for the last 25 years, 10 out of 10 in the Gartner MQ comes together with Azure, the enterprise secure cloud leader in creating Metallic. Metallic, now with 1,000 plus customers around the world, there's a reason they trust it. It's now become part of how they protect their Office 365. No workload left behind, which is very unique, you know? So what we have architected together and now we're taking it to the next phase, our joint partners, right? Our joint customers, that those are some of the things that are really changing in terms of how we're accelerating the partnership. >> Manoj, you and I have talked about ransomware a lot, we did a special segment a while back on that. The adversary is very capable. And you know, I put in the chat this morning, at Commvault Connections, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a ransomwarist. You can go on the dark web, you can buy ransomware as a service. All you need is access to a server and you can stick you know, some malware on it. So you know, it's very, very dangerous times. What is it about data management as a service that makes it a good fit right now from a customer perspective to solve this problem? >> Absolutely. Bad guys, real life, or in the cyber world, they have some techniques. First thing they do in a ransomware is you go after the exits. What are the exit doors? Now you back up data, they know that that backup data can be used to recover. So they go and try to defeat the backup products in that environment. That's number one game that changes with data management as a service. Your data management data protection environment is not inside your environment. Chances to do two simultaneous penetrations to try and anything is possible. But now you've got an additional layer of recovery readiness because that control plane secured on top of Microsoft, Azure, 3,500 security professionals, FedRAMP high standard only data management and service entity to get it. As one of our customers said, "A unicorn in the wild", that is what you have as your data management environment. So if something bad happens, worst case, this environment is ready. Our enterprise customers are starting to understand that this is becoming a big reason to shift to this model. You know, then it's okay if you're not ready to shift the entire model, you're given the easy button of just air gapping of your data. So if you're an existing Commvault customer, appliance, software, anything, secure air gap Metallic cloud storage on hardened Azure Blob protected jointly by us, start there. And finally things like active directory. Talk about shutting the exit path, right? Take that down, your entire environment is not accessible. We make it easy for you to recover that. And because of our partnership, we're able to get it for free to every one of our customers. Go protect your active directory environment using (speaks faintly) kind of three big reasons that we're seeing that entire conversation shift in the minds of our customers. >> Yeah, thank you for that. That's a no brainer. Dave, how do Metallic and Microsoft fit together? Where's the you know, kind of value chain if you will, when it comes to dealing with cyber protection or ransomware recovery, how are your customers thinking about that? >> Yeah well, first it's a shared responsibility model, right? When you've got the best in class platform like Azure with built in protections, scalable data centers all over the global footprint. But then also we spend 10 plus billion dollars a year in security and defense and our own data center environments, right? And so I always find it inspiring when companies believe that their investments in security and platform protection is going to do the job. That's true, that used to be true. Now with Azure, you can take advantage of this global scale and secure you know, footprint of investment that a company like Microsoft has done to really set your heart at ease. Now, what do you do with your actual applications and who has access to it, and how do you actually integrate like Manoj was talking about down to the individual or the individual account that's trying to get access to your environment? Well, that's where Commvault comes in at that point of attack or at that point of an actual data element. So if you've got that environment within Commvault system backed by the umbrella of the Azure security infrastructure, that's how the two sort of compliment each other. And again, it's about shared responsibility, right? We want every customer that leverages Azure to make sure that they know it's secure, it's protected. We've got a mechanism to protect your best interests. Commvault has that exact same mission statement, right? To make sure that every single element that comes into contact with their products is protected, is secure, is trustworthy. You know, I got a long lesson, long, long time ago, early in my career that says you can goof up a product feature, you can goof up the color scheme on a website but if you lose a customer's data or somebody trust, you never get it back. And so we don't take our relationships with customers very lightly. And I think our committed and joint responsibility to delight and support our customers is what has led to this partnership being so successful over the past couple of decades. >> Great, thank you, Dave. And so Manoj, I was saying earlier that data protection has become a fundamental component of your digital business stack. So that sounds good but what should customers be doing to make data protection and data management, a business value driver versus just a liability or exposure or cost factor that has to be managed? What do you think about that? >> No, and then David added earlier, right? It's no longer a liability. In fact it is you know, someone said data is the new oil, right? It is your crown jewels. You got to to start with thinking about an active data protection strategy, not you know, thinking about passive tools and looking at it in terms of a compliance or I need to keep the data around. So that's the number one part is like, how do I have something that protects all my workloads and everyone has a different pace of transformation. So unless you know, you're a company that just got created, you have environments that are on-prem, on the edge, in CoLOS, public cloud. You got you know, SaaS applications, all of those have a critical data that needs to come together. Look for breadth of data protection, something that doesn't leave your workloads behind. Siloed solutions, create a Swiss cheese that create light for the attackers to go after those gaps. You don't want to look for that, you know? And then finally trust. I mean you know, what are the pillars of trust that the solution is built on? You got to figure out how your teams can get to doing more productive things rather than patching systems. You know, making sure that the infrastructure is up. As Dave said you know, we invest a ton jointly in securing this infrastructure. Trust that and leverage that as a differentiator rather than trying to duplicate all of that. So those are some of the you know, key things. And you know, look for players who understand that hybrid is here, give you different entry points. Don't force you know, the single single mode of operation. Those are the things we have built to make it easier for our customers to have a more active data management strategy. >> Dave, Todd, I'll give you the last word we got to go but I want to hit on this notion of zero trust. It used to be a buzz word now it's mainstream. There's so much that this discussion, is it Prudentialist access? Every access is treated maybe as privileged but what does zero trust mean to you in less than a minute? >> Yeah you know, trust but verify, right? Every interaction you have with your infrastructure, with your data, with your applications and you do it at the identity level. We care about identity and we know that that's the core of how people are going to try and access infrastructure. Used to be protect the perimeter. The analogy I always use is we have locks on our houses. Now the bad guys are everywhere. They're getting inside our houses and they're not immediately taking things, they're hiding in the closet and they're popping out three weeks later before anybody knows it. And so being able to actually manage, measure, protect every interaction you have with your infrastructure and do it at the individual or application level, that's what zero trust is all about. So don't trust any interaction, make sure that you pass that authorization through with every ask. And then make sure you protect it from the inside out. >> Great stuff. Okay guys, we've got to leave it there. Thanks so much for the time today. All right next, right after a short break, we're headed into the CXL Power Panel to hear what's on the minds of the executives as it relates to data management in the digital era. Keep it right there, you're watching theCUBE. (lighthearted music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is braking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Techniques to protect sensitive data have evolved over thousands of years, literally. The pace of modern data protection is rapidly accelerating and presents both opportunities and threats for organizations. In particular, the amount of data stored in the cloud combined with hybrid work models, the clear and present threat of cyber crime, regulatory edicts, and the ever expanding edge and associated use cases should put CXOs on notice that the time is now to rethink your data protection strategies. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we're going to explore the evolving world of data protection and share some information on how we see the market changing in the competitive landscape for some of the top players. Steve Kenniston, AKA the Storage Alchemist, shared a story with me, and it was pretty clever. Way back in 4000 BC, the Sumerians invented the first system of writing. Now, they used clay tokens to represent transactions at that time. Now, to prevent messing with these tokens, they sealed them in clay jars to ensure that the tokens, i.e the data, would remain secure with an accurate record that was, let's call it quasi, immutable, and lived in a clay vault. And since that time, we've seen quite an evolution of data protection. Tape, of course, was the main means of protecting data and backing data up during most of the mainframe era. And that carried into client server computing, which really accentuated and underscored the issues around backup windows and challenges with RTO, recovery time objective and RPO recovery point objective. And just overall recovery nightmares. Then in the 2000's data reduction made disk-based backup more popular and pushed tape into an archive last resort media. Data Domain, then EMC, now Dell still sell many purpose-built backup appliances as do others as a primary backup target disc-based. The rise of virtualization brought more changes in backup and recovery strategies, as a reduction in physical resources squeezed the one application that wasn't under utilizing compute, i.e, backup. And we saw the rise of Veem, the cleverly-named company that became synonymous with data protection for virtual machines. Now, the cloud has created new challenges related to data sovereignty, governance, latency, copy creep, expense, et cetera. But more recently, cyber threats have elevated data protection to become a critical adjacency to information security. Cyber resilience to specifically protect against attacks is the new trend being pushed by the vendor community as organizations are urgently looking for help with this insidious threat. Okay, so there are two major disruptors that we're going to talk about today, the cloud and cyber crime, especially around ransoming your data. Every customer is using the cloud in some way, shape, or form. Around 76% are using multiple clouds, that's according to a recent study by Hashi Corp. We've talked extensively about skill shortages on theCUBE, and data protection and security concerns are really key challenges to address, given that skill shortage is a real talent gap in terms of being able to throw people at solving this problem. So what customers are doing, they're either building out or they're buying really mostly building abstraction layers to hide the underlying cloud complexity. So what this does... The good news is it's simplifies provisioning and management, but it creates problems around opacity. In other words, you can't see sometimes what's going on with the data. These challenges fundamentally become data problems, in our view. Things like fast, accurate, and complete backup recovery, compliance, data sovereignty, data sharing. I mentioned copy creep, cyber resiliency, privacy protections. These are all challenges brought to fore by the cloud, the advantages, the pros, and the cons. Now, remote workers are especially vulnerable. And as clouds span rapidly, data protection technologies are struggling to keep pace. So let's talk briefly about the rapidly-expanding public cloud. This chart shows worldwide revenue for the big four hyperscalers. As you can see, we projected that they're going to surpass $115 billion in revenue in 2021. That's up from 86 billion last year. So it's a huge market, it's growing in the 35% range. The interesting thing is last year, 80-plus billion dollars in revenue, but 100 billion dollars was spent last year by these firms in cap ex. So they're building out infrastructure for the industry. This is a gift to the balance of the industry. Now to date, legacy vendors and the surrounding community have been pretty defensive around the cloud. Oh, not everything's going to move to the cloud. It's not a zero sum game we hear. And while that's all true, the narrative was really kind of a defensive posture, and that's starting to change as large tech companies like Dell, IBM, Cisco, HPE, and others see opportunities to build on top of this infrastructure. You certainly see that with Arvind Krishna comments at IBM, Cisco obviously leaning in from a networking and security perspective, HPE using language that is very much cloud-like with its GreenLake strategy. And of course, Dell is all over this. Let's listen to how Michael Dell is thinking about this opportunity when he was questioned on the queue by John Furrier about the cloud. Play the clip. So in my view, Michael nailed it. The cloud is everywhere. You have to make it easy. And you have to admire the scope of his comments. We know this guy, he thinks big. He said, "Enables everything." He's basically saying is that technology is at the point where it has the potential to touch virtually every industry, every person, every problem, everything. So let's talk about how this informs the changing world of data protection. Now, we all know, we've seen with the pandemic, there's an acceleration in toward digital, and that has caused an escalation, if you will, in the data protection mandate. So essentially what we're talking about here is the application of Michael Dell's cloud everywhere comments. You've got on-prem, private clouds, hybrid clouds. You've got public clouds across AWS, Azure, Google, Alibaba. Really those are the big four hyperscalers. You got many clouds that are popping up all their place. But multi-cloud, to that Hashi Corp data point, 75, 70 6%. And then you now see the cloud expanding out to the edge, programmable infrastructure heading out to the edge. So the opportunity here to build the data protection cloud is to have the same experiences across all these estates with automation and orchestration in that cloud, that data protection cloud, if you will. So think of it as an abstraction layer that hides that underlying complexity, you log into that data protection cloud, it's the same experience. So you've got backup, you've got recovery, you can handle bare metal. You can do virtualized backups and recoveries, any cloud, any OS, out to the edge, Kubernetes and container use cases, which is an emerging data protection requirement. And you've got analytics, perhaps you've got PII, personally identifiable information protection in there. So the attributes of this data protection cloud, again, abstracts the underlying cloud primitives, takes care of that. It also explodes cloud native technologies. In other words, it takes advantage of whether it's machine learning, which all the big cloud players have expertise in, new processor models, things like graviton, and other services that are in the cloud natively. It doesn't just wrap it's on-prem stack in a container and shove it into the cloud, no. It actually re architects or architects around those cloud native services. And it's got distributed metadata to track files and volumes and any organizational data irrespective of location. And it enables sets of services to intelligently govern in a federated governance manner while ensuring data integrity. And all this is automated and an orchestrated to help with the skills gap. Now, as it relates to cyber recovery, air-gap solutions must be part of the portfolio, but managed outside of that data protection cloud that we just briefly described. The orchestration and the management must also be gaped, if you will. Otherwise, (laughs) you don't have an air gap. So all of this is really a cohort to cyber security or your cybersecurity strategy and posture, but you have to be careful here because your data protection strategy could get lost in this mess. So you want to think about the data protection cloud as again, an adjacency or maybe an overlay to your cybersecurity approach. Not a bolt on, it's got to be fundamentally architectured from the bottom up. And yes, this is going to maybe create some overheads and some integration challenges, but this is the way in which we think you should think about it. So you'll likely need a partner to do this. Again, we come back to the skill skills gap if we're seeing the rise of MSPs, managed service providers and specialist service providers. Not public cloud providers. People are concerned about lock-in, and that's really not their role. They're not high-touch services company. Probably not your technology arms dealer, (clear throat) excuse me, they're selling technology to these MSPs. So the MSPs, they have intimate relationships with their customers. They understand their business and specialize in architecting solutions to handle these difficult challenges. So let's take a look at some of the risk factors here, dig a little bit into the cyber threat that organizations face. This is a slide that, again, the Storage Alchemists, Steve Kenniston, shared with me. It's based on a study that IBM funds with the Panmore Institute, which is a firm that studies these things like cost of breaches and has for many, many, many years. The slide shows the total cost of a typical breach within each dot and on the Y axis and the frequency in percentage terms on the horizontal axis. Now, it's interesting. The top two compromise credentials and phishing, which once again proves that bad user behavior trumps good security every time. But the point here is that the adversary's attack vectors are many. And specific companies often specialize in solving these problems often with point products, which is why the slide that we showed from Optiv earlier, that messy slide, looks so cluttered. So there's a huge challenge for companies. And that's why we've seen the emergence of cyber recovery solutions from virtually all the major players. Ransomware and the solar winds hack have made trust the number one issue for CIOs and CISOs and boards of directors. Shifting CISO spending patterns are clear. They're shifting largely because they're catalyzed by the work from home. But outside of the moat to endpoint security, identity and access management, cloud security, the horizontal network security. So security priorities and spending are changing. And that's why you see the emergence of disruptors like we've covered extensively, Okta, CrowdStrike, Zscaler. And cyber resilience is top of mind, and robust solutions are required. And that's why companies are building cyber recovery solutions that are most often focused on the backup corpus because that's a target for the bad guys. So there is an opportunity, however, to expand from just the backup corpus to all data and protect this kind of 3, 2, 1, or maybe it's 3, 2, 1, 1, three copies, two backups, a backup in the cloud and one that's air gaped. So this can be extended to primary storage, copies, snaps, containers, data in motion, et cetera, to have a comprehensive data protection strategy. And customers, as I said earlier, are increasingly looking to manage service providers and specialists because of that skills gap. And that's a big reason why automation is so important in orchestration. And automation and orchestration, I'll emphasize, on the air gap solutions should be separated physically and logically. All right, now let's take a look at some of the ETR data and some of the players. This is a chart that we like to show often. It's a X-Y axis. And the Y axis is net score, which is a measure of spending momentum. And the horizontal axis is market share. Now, market share is an indicator of pervasiveness in the survey. It's not spending market share, it's not market share of the overall market, it's a term that ETR uses. It's essentially market share of the responses within the survey set. Think of it as mind share. Okay, you've got the pure plays here on this slide, in the storage category. There is no data protection or backup category. So what we've done is we've isolated the pure plays or close to pure plays in backup and data protection. Now notice that red line, that red is kind of our subjective view of anything that's over that 40% line is elevated. And you can see only Rubrik, and the July survey is over that 40% line. I'll show you the ends in a moment. Smaller ends, but still, Rubrik is the only one. Now, look at Cohesity and Rubrik in the January 2020. So last year, pre-pandemic, Cohesity and Rubrik, they've come well off their peak for net score. Look at Veeam. Veeam, having studied this data for the last say 24 hours months, Veeam has been steady Eddy. It is really always in the mid to high 30s, always shows a large shared end, so it's coming up in the survey. Customers are mentioning Veeam. And it's got a very solid net score. It's not above that 40% line, but it's hovering just below consistently. That's very impressive. Commvault has steadily been moving up. Sanjay Mirchandani has made some acquisitions. He did the Hedvig acquisition. They launched Metallic, that's driving cloud affinity within Commvault's large customer base. So it's good example of a legacy player pivoting and evolving and transforming itself. Veritas, it continues to under perform in the ETR surveys relative to the other players. Now, for context, let's add IBM and Dell to the chart. Now just note, this is IBM and Dell's full storage portfolio. The category in the taxonomy at ETR is all storage. Just previous slide, I isolated on the pure plays. But this now adds in IBM and Dell. It probably representative of where they would be. Probably Dell larger on the horizontal axis than IBM, of course. And you could see the spending momentum accordingly. So you can see that in the data chart that we've inserted. So some smaller ends for Rubrik and Cohesity. But still enough to pay attention, it's not like one or two. When you're 20-plus, 15-plus 25-plus, you can start to pay attention to trends. Veeam, again, is very impressive. It's net score is solid, it's got a consistent presence in the dataset, it's clear leader here. SimpliVity is small, but it's improving relative to last several surveys. And we talked about Convolt. Now, I want to emphasize something that we've been hitting on for quite some time now. And that's the Renaissance that's coming in compute. Now, we all know about Moore's Law, the doubling of transistor density every two years, 18 to 24 months. And that leads to a doubling of performance in that timeframe. X86, that x86 curve is in the blue. And if you do the math, this is expressed in trillions of operations per second. The orange line is representative of Apples A series, culminating in the A15, most recently. The A series is what Apple is now... Well, it's the technology basis for what's inside M1, the new Apple laptops, which is replacing Intel. That's that that orange line there, we'll come back to that. So go back to the blue line for a minute. If you do the math on doubling performance every 24 months, it comes out to roughly 40% annual improvement in processing power per year. That's now moderated. So Moore's Law is waning in one sense, so we wrote a piece Moore's Law is not dead. So I'm sort of contradicting myself there. But the traditional Moore's Law curve on x86 is waning. It's probably now down to around 30%, low 30s. But look at the orange line. Again, using the A series as an indicator, if you combine then the CPU, the NPU, which neuro processing unit, XPU, pick whatever PU you want, the accelerators, the DSPs, that line is growing at 100% plus per year. It's probably more accurately around 110% a year. So there's a new industry curve occurring, and it's being led by the Arm ecosystem. The other key factor there, and you're seeing this in a lot of use cases, a lot of consumer use cases, Apple is an example, but you're also seeing it in things like Tesla, Amazon with AWS graviton, the Annapurna acquisition, building out graviton and nitro, that's based on Arm. You can get from design to tape out in less than two years. Whereas the Intel cycles, we know, they've been running it four to five years now. Maybe Pat Gelsinger is compressing those. But Intel is behind. So organizations that are on that orange curve are going to see faster acceleration, lower cost, lower power, et cetera. All right, so what's the tie to data protection. I'm going to leave you with this chart. Arm has introduced it's confidential, compute architecture and is ushering in a new era of security and data protection. Zero trust is the new mandate. And what Arm has it's done with what they call realms is create physical separation of the vulnerable components by creating essentially physical buckets to put code in and to put data in, separate from the OS. Remember, the OS is the most valuable entry point for hackers or one of them because it contains privileged access, and it's a weak link because of things like memory leakages and vulnerabilities. And malicious code can be placed by bad guys within data in the OS and appear benign, even though it's anything but. So in this, all the OS does is create API calls to the realm controller. That's the only interaction. So it makes it much harder for bad actors to get access to the code and the data. And importantly, very importantly, it's an end-to-end architecture. So there's protection throughout. If you're pulling data from the edge and bringing it back to the on-prem or the cloud, you've got that end to end architecture and protection throughout. So the link to data protection is that backup software vendors need to be the most trusted of applications. Backup software needs to be the most trusted of applications because it's one of the most targeted areas in a cyber attack. Realms provide an end-to-end separation of data and code from the OS and it's a better architectural construct to support zero trust and confidential computing and critical use cases like data protection/backup and other digital business apps. So our call to action is backup software vendors, you can lead the charge. Arm is several years ahead at the moment, ahead of Intel, in our view. So you've got to pay attention to that, research that. We're not saying over rotate, but go investigate that. And use your relationships with Intel to accelerate its version of this architecture. Or ideally, the industry should agree on common standards and solve this problem together. Pat Gelsinger told us in theCUBE that if it's the last thing he's going to do in his industry life, he's going to solve this security problem. That's when he was at VMware. Well, Pat, you're even in a better place to do it now. You don't have to solve it yourself, you can't, and you know that. So while you're going about your business saving Intel, look to partner with Arm. I know it sounds crazy to use these published APIs and push to collaborate on an open source architecture that addresses the cyber problem. If anyone can do it, you can. Okay, that's it for today. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts. All you got to do is search Braking Analysis Podcast. I publish weekly on wikibond.com and siliconangle.com. Or you can reach me @dvellante on Twitter, email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. And don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey and data action. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, everybody. Be well, and we'll see you next time. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> We are entering a new era of cyber attacks. The SolarWinds hack it underscored a rising and very disturbing trend. Namely that tunneling in through an organization's supply chain. And you're hearing terms like island hopping and living off the land to becoming mainstream in the world of cybersecurity. And we're going to talk a little bit about ransomware and cyber with Manoj Nair, who is the GM of Metallic, a Commvault Company. And Tim Carben, is a Principal Systems Engineer with Mitchell International. Gents welcome. Thanks so much for coming on. Talk to me about this very important topic. So, Tim, I got to start with you, you're the practitioner. You got to fight this battle every day. You heard me upfront it feel like we are entering a new era. The adversary is highly capable, very well-funded. How are you thinking about changes in protecting your data and creating things like air gaps and what are you doing to solve this problem? >> I think the most important part. And this is just to start off with is patching, everything up to date. Most of the time someone's getting in, or most of the time one of these viruses is replicating between the different systems. It's due to unpatched environments. And then number two is training. If your resources don't know, not to click on something or to hover over something to look at it. Then, you are just going to be exposing your environment over and over and over again. But when it all boils down to it, and it comes back to what I'm doing in the data protection world in the backup and recovery, I have to look at not only how am I going to get this data back. Because if a system gets encrypted we are going to look for recovery first. That's it, look for recovery first. But we also need to make sure that our environment is protected. Lock down our media agents. Lock down our storage that we're connected to. And like you had mentioned before use an air gap. And no one... I mean, everyone's been moving away from tape and it's understandable. There's a lot of resource utilization involved. There's a lot of people that you need in there in your data center, moving things around. And it's a robotic machine, you have to rely on. Not only that, but recovery times can be slow. What I found is Commvault is gone out there and they've offered us SaaS storage. This SaaS storage is somewhere else. We could be in AWS. We could be in Azure. We could be in GCP but we can still connect to this SaaS storage. And we never have to worry about someone having access to a data center and getting to our tapes. We don't have to worry about someone having tenant access and deleting our backups off of a particular tenant. Which is something that we are going to see in the future if it's not out there already. So, there's a lot that we have to do and protecting ourselves is very important. And Commvault is making it a lot easier. >> Thank you, Tim. So, Manoj I mean, these things have probably been around for a while but we're seeing really sort of, I talked about mainstream and a couple of things that are really disturbing. We're seeing this malware come in and they're self forming. They're creating different signatures but we're also seeing this idea of living off the land very stealthily using your own tools against you. And then really disturbingly, we're seeing when you discover... When a victim discovers that they're being attacked and they respond... Their incident response is triggering a very aggressive counter attack by the hackers. Where they've already exfiltrated really sensitive data. Then they'll then they... And they've been stealing and making monetizing your data. And then they'll just encrypt it, hold it for ransom, threaten to release that sensitive data if you don't let them keep going. It's really, really disturbing. What's your perspective on this raising the bar that the bad guys have done and how we can keep pace? >> Yeah, Dave. I lived through the nation state attack that happened in 2012. The front door seat was at RSA as part of the leadership team. And at that time it was considered a this is a very unique and it's an advanced persistent threat. It took the resources of one of the biggest nations of the world to mount something like that. And fast forward, eight, nine years later, we're seeing that these kinds of techniques have now been mainstreamed. You've got a lot of people who are figuring out not just... They may not even care about your data but they know you care about your data. So they're not trying to exfiltrate the data maybe to look for sensitive data and monetize it. That's just harder. Why not take it directly from you. In Q1 of 2021, the average ransomware ransom went up 43%. It's like 250K or something. That's just the ransom. And we saw now that it's impacting day-to-day lives. You saw the long lines of the gas things gas pumps on the East coast a weekend before last and as somebody who had a ransomware attack as the news story say they'd paid for the ransom. And that was the recovery after paying 5 million was slow. So they had to go and figure out how to recover from the backups. And that was not fast enough. So defense in depth is something that has really been the mantra and just like protecting a home, you're not just looking at putting an alarm on the front door. You have sensors on your windows. You have a fire alarm. You've got to say if you got different things too in terms of really thinking through different trends. And Tim hit on a couple of those things. You really think about what is my weak link? What is my vulnerability? That vulnerability is now your software supply chain. So you're thinking about who am I buying things from? Are they taking care of stuff because they are now a new vector? And that's kind of the biggest I would say new thing that has not been mainstream. Like a lot of these techniques are getting mainstream but the fact that a software supply chain itself that is being deployed in mass is now vulnerable? And that will be monetized. It might've started with the nation state doing that but then you'll get the... People trying to take it for ransom. They'll start weaponizing those same vulnerabilities. So really that data and making sure that your crown jewels you have a very safe way of protecting them. And it's not just... You need to practice in readiness of that. Like any system. Just having that there it's not good enough, like can I detect issues? What is the ecosystem that's part of? How is my identity tracking who has got access to that? We've seen a lot of interesting things as part of why we started creating services like a air gap service in the cloud. The customer doesn't have to worry about managing credentials because even those were getting compromised. People were stealing the credentials to go delete the backup. So, the steps keep leaping forward. There's a lot of money going in the research and development of malware. And the industry in partnership with customers and partnership with local and federal authorities are going to have to figure out how to tackle this together. >> Yeah. So Tim, you don't mean Commvault, you don't think of being the cybersecurity space specifically, but those worlds are coming together the data protection and security space. And I would imagine for you as a practitioner it's challenging because you don't have a blank chequebook. I mean, yes, you can spend... You have to spend on cyber but you have all these... You talked about digital transformation in an earlier discussion that we had and you've got to figure out, how do I apply AI and automation? You've got a talent gap. I mean, you can't hire people that have the skills because you just can't keep throwing people at the problem. So, you don't have this unlimited budget. I saw a stat there's a company it's Cybersecurity Ventures. They said by 2025 we'll lose $10.5 trillion annually to cyber attacks. And I think if I look at it, who's ever numbers. You look at IDC I think has one of the higher numbers out there. It's like a hundred billion that we spend each year on cyber. So it's infinitesimal compared to the value that the bad guys are extracting. So, how are you dealing with that complexity, fragmented security tooling lack of talent turnover? I mean, all this stuff and the budget challenges. How do you deal with all that? >> It's... And I do not want to use this word, but it's as easy as research and staying on top of everything. Everyone knows, you update your virus definitions. You keep that up-to-date. You close your firewall holes. You have denies at the very end of every firewall. You make sure you keep track of these small things. At the same time, you leverage utilities that make it easier for you to do your job. The Commvault iDA has a feature that keeps track of changes or modifications on a server. So if I have a server, that's actively getting hit with a ransomware. Commvault reports me in a word and tells me, "Hey, we have had this many files modified within this time period. Look at it right now." So, on top of everything else we have because it's not a replacement for our virus protection but it does help us. And it does keep track of things in Commvault, as well as a lot of other companies out there, are doing some great things in closing up small little gaps and adding little features that could really help us move forward in the future. And keep us more protected, I guess I should say. >> Yeah. Well Manoj, I mean the backup Corpus is a sort of the last line of defense. It's also could be a first point of attack because all the valuable data is in there. So, I'll give you the last word here on the segment. Thanks for doing this with me guys. How do you think the industry needs to approach this? It's not a... You can't go on it alone. You definitely need to collaborate. Your final thoughts. >> Yeah, collaborate, share risk factors, making sure that systems are connected and they're not siloed. And that will really make sure our customers are getting the best out of all of us. And you have to build an intelligence of the product anything static. Just like you said, you need to backup the cyber crown jewels or they're going to go after that. So, your backup systems need to have AIML. They need to be able to detect any kind of suspicious activity. You can't just kind of code it in and just expect that what you thought would work in the lab is how it's going to behave. So, but it's a... And in general unless there's a bigger penalty in terms of the response to these kinds of attacks, as long as they keep getting paid, they're going to keep doing this thing. So you got to follow the money is a simple work. Let's take that a rich ecosystem, that's funding them and replace it with a tight partnership between companies and the customers and partners and governments. >> Guys. Well, I mean, the equation is pretty simple. Value equals benefit over cost. If you can increase the denominator for the bad guys it'll lower their ROI and that's kind of your job. And so keep up the good work, gents. Thanks so much for coming to theCUBE and talking to me about this very important topic. Really appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thank you for having us. >> And thank you for watching this CUBE Conversation. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) We are entering a new era of cyber attacks. The SolarWinds hack has underscored a rising and very disturbing trend, namely that tunneling in through an organization's supply chain. And you're hearing terms like island hopping and living off the land it becoming mainstream in the world of cybersecurity. And we're going to talk a little bit about ransomware and cyber with Manoj Nair who is the GM of Metallic, a Commvault company. And Tim Carben, as a Principal Systems Engineer with Mitchell International. Gents, welcome. Thanks so much for coming on and talking to me about this very important topic. So, you know, Tim, I got to start with you, you're the practitioner, you got to fight this battle every day. You heard me upfront, it feels like we're entering a new era, the adversary is highly capable, very well-funded. How are you thinking about changes in protecting your data and creating things like air gaps. What are you doing to solve this problem? >> I think the most important part, and this is just to start off with, is patching everything up to date. Most of the time someone's getting in, or most of the time one of these viruses is replicating between the different systems it's due to unpatched environments. And then number two is training. If your resources don't know not to click on something, or to hover over something, to look at it, then you are just going to be exposing your environment over and over and over again. But when it all boils down to it, and it comes back to what I'm doing in the data protection world, in the backup and recovery, I have to look at not only how am I going to get this data back, because if a system gets encrypted we are going to look for recovery first. That's it. Look for recovery first, but we also need to make sure that our environment is protected, lock down our media agents, lock down our storage that we're connected to, and like you had mentioned before, use an air gap. Everyone's been moving away from tape and it's understandable. There's a lot of resource utilization involved. There's a lot of people that you need in there in your data center, moving things around, and it's a robotic machine you have to rely on. Not only that, but recovery times can be slow. What I found is Commvault has gone out there and they've offered us SaaS storage. This SaaS storage is somewhere else. We could be in AWS, we could be in Azure, we could be in GCP but we can still connect to the SaaS storage. And we never have to worry about someone having access to our data center and getting to our tapes. We don't have to worry about someone having tenant access and deleting our backups off of a particular tenant, which is something that we are going to see in the future, if it's not out there already. So there's a lot that we have to do and protecting ourselves is very important and Commvault is making it a lot easier. >> Thank you, Tim. So, these things have probably been around for a while but we're seeing really, I talk about mainstream, and a couple of things that are really disturbing, and we're seeing these malware come in and they're self forming, they're creating different signatures. But we're also seeing this idea of living off the land very stealthily using your own tools against you. And then, really disturbingly, we're seeing when a victim discovers that they're being attacked and they respond, their incident response is triggering a very aggressive counter attack by the hackers, where they've already exfiltrated really sensitive data, they've been stealing and making monetizing your data. And then they'll just encrypt it, hold it for ransom, threaten to release that sensitive data, if you don't let them keep going. It's really, really disturbing. What's your perspective on this raising the bar that the bad guys have done and how we can keep pace? >> And Dave. I lived through the nation-state attack that happened in 2012. The front door seat I was at RSA as part of the leadership team. And, at that time it was considered this is a very unique and it's an advanced, persistent threat. It took the resources of one of the biggest nations of the world to mount something like that. And fast forward, eight, nine years later we're seeing that these kinds of techniques have now been mainstreamed. You've got a lot of people who are figuring out not just that. They may not even care about your data, but they know you care about your data. So they're not trying to exfiltrate the data maybe to look for sensitive data and monetize it. That's just harder. Why not take it directly from you? In Q1 of 2021 the average ransomware ransom went up 43%. It's like $250k or something. That's just the ransom. And we saw now that it's impacting day-to-day lives. You saw the long lines of the gas tanks, gas pumps on the East Coast. You know, the weekend before last. And here's somebody who had a ransomware attack. As the news story say, they'd paid for the ransom. And that was the recovery after paying 5 million was slow, so they had to go and figure out how to recover from the backups. And that was not fast enough. So, you know, defense in depth is something that has really been the mantra, and just like protecting a home, you're not just looking at putting in an alarm on the front door, you have sensors on your windows, you have a fire alarm. You got to see if you got different things too, in terms of really thinking through different threats. And Tim hit on a couple of those things, right? You really think about what is my weak link, what is my vulnerability? That vulnerability is now your software supply chain. So you're thinking about whom am I buying things from? Aren't they taking care of stuff because they are now a new backdoor. And that's kind of the biggest, I would say new thing, that has now been mainstreamed. Like a lot of these techniques are getting mainstream, but the fact that a software supply chain itself that has being deployed in mass is now vulnerable, and that will be monetized. It might've started with the nation-state doing that, but then you'll get people trying take you for ransom will start weaponizing those same vulnerabilities. So really that data and making sure that your crown jewels you have a fail-safe way of protecting them. And it's not just, you know, you need to practice the readiness of that. Like any system, just having that there is not good enough, like, can I detect issues? What is the ecosystem that's part of? How is my identity tracking who has got access to that? We've seen a lot of interesting things and is part of why we started creating services like a air gap service in the cloud. The customer doesn't have to worry about managing credentials, because even those were getting compromised. People were stealing the credentials to go delete the backup. So that the steps keep moving forward. There's a lot of money going in the research and development of malware. And the industry, in partnership with customers and partnership with local and federal authorities, are going to have to figure out how to tackle this together. >> Yeah. So Tim, Commvault. You don't think of it being in the cybersecurity space specifically, but those worlds are coming together, the data protection and security space. And I would imagine for you as a practitioner it's challenging because you don't have a blank checkbook. I mean, yes, you can spend, you have to spend on cyber, but you have all these, you talked about digital transformation in an earlier discussion that we had, and you've got to figure out, okay how do I apply AI and automation? You've got a talent gap. I mean, you can't hire people that have the skills because you just can't keep throwing people at the problem. So, so you don't have this unlimited budget. I saw a stat, there's a company, it's cyber security ventures, they said, "by 2025 we will lose $10.5 trillion annually to cyber attacks." And I think if I look at whosever numbers, you look at IDC, I think has one of the higher numbers out there, It's like 100 billion that we spend each year on cyber. So it's infinitesimal compared to the to the value that the bad guys are extracting. So how are you dealing with that complexity, fragmented, you know, security tooling, lack of talent, turnover I mean, all this stuff, and the budget challenges. How do you deal with all that? >> I do not want to use this word, but it's as easy as research, and staying on top of everything. Everyone knows you update your virus definitions. You keep that up-to-date. You close your firewall holes. You have denies at the very end of every firewall. You make sure you keep track of these small things. At the same time, you leverage utilities that make it easier for you to do your job. The Commvault iDA has a feature that keeps track of changes or modifications on a server. So if I have a server that's actively getting hit with a ransomware, Commvault reports me an alert and tells me , "Hey, we have had this many files modified within this time period. Look at it right now." So on top of everything else we have, because it's not a replacement for our virus protection, but it does help us. And it does keep track of things. And Commvault, as well as a lot of other companies out there are doing some great things in closing up small little gaps, in adding little features that could really help us move forward in the future, and keep us more protected, I guess I should say. >> Yeah. I mean the backup corpus is sort of the last line of defense. So it also could be a first point of attack because all the valuable data is in there. So I'll give you the last word here on the segment. Thanks for doing this with me, guys. How do you think the industry needs to approach this? It's not, you can't go and lead alone. You definitely need to collaborate. Your final thoughts. >> Collaborate, share risk factors, making sure that systems are connected and they're not siloed. And that will really make sure our customers are getting the best out of all of us. And you have to build an intelligence of the product. Anything static, just like you said, if the backup is the crown jewel how are they're going to go after that? So your backup systems need to have AI/ML. They need to be able to detect any kind of suspicious activity. You can't just kind of code it in and just expect that what you thought would work in the lab is how it's going to behave. And in general, unless there's a bigger penalty in terms of the response to these kinds of attacks, as long as they keep getting paid, they're going to keep doing this thing. So you got to follow the money is a simple work. Let's take that rich ecosystem that's funding them, and replace it with a tight partnership between companies and customers and partners and garments. >> Guys. Well, the equation is pretty simple. Value equals benefit over cost. If you can increase the denominator for the bad guys it'll lower their ROI, and that's kind of your job. So keep up the good work, gents. Thanks so much for coming to the Cube and talking to me about this very important topic. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And thank you for watching this Cube Conversation. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time. (quirky music)

>> Commvault was an idea that incubated as a project inside of bell labs, one of the most prestigious research and development organizations in the world, back in the day. It became an official company in 1996, and Commvault just celebrated its 25th anniversary. As such, Commvault has had to reinvent itself many times over the past two and a half decades. From riding the waves of the very early PC networking era, to supporting a rich set of solutions for the evolving enterprise. This includes things like cloud computing, ransomware disaster, recovery, security compliance, and pretty much all things data protection and data management. And with me to talk about the company, its vision for the future, with also a voice of the customer. Three great guests, Isabel Geese is the Chief Marketing Officer of Commvault, Manoj Nair is the GM of Metallic, and Tim Carben is a principal systems engineer with Mitchell International. Folks, welcome to the Commvault power panel. Come inside the cube. It's awesome to have you. >> Great to be here Dave. >> All right. First of all, I got to congratulate you celebrating 25 years. That's a long time, not a lot of tech companies make it that far and are still successful and relevant. So Isabelle, maybe you could start off. What do you think has been the driving factor for your ability to kind of lead through the subsequent technological waves that I alluded to upfront? >> So well, 25 years is commendable but we are not counting success in number of years we're really counting success in how many customer we've helped over those years. And I will say what has been the driving mater for us as who that has been innovating with our customers. You know, we were there every step of the way, when they migrate to hybrid cloud. And now as they go to multi cloud in a post COVID world, where they have to win gold you know, distributed workforce, different types of workloads and devices, we are there too. We have that workload as well. So the innovation keep coming in, thanks to us listening to our customer. And then adding needs that change over the last 25 years and probably for the next 25 as well. You know, we, we want to be here for customer who think that data is an asset, not a liability. And also making sure that we offer them a broad range of use cases to book why things simple because the word is getting too complex for them. So let's take the complexity on us. >> Thank you for that. So Manoj, you riffed on the cube before about, you know putting on the, the binoculars and looking at the future. So let's talk about that. Where do you see the future for this industry? What are some of the key driving factors that matter. >> Dave it's great to be back on the Cube. You know, we see our industry no different than lots of other industries. The SAS model is rapidly being adopted. And the reason is, you know customers are looking for simplicity simplicity not just in leveraging, you know the great technology that Commvault has built but in the business model and the experience. So, you know, that's one of the fastest growing trends that started in consumer apps and other applications, other B to B apps. And now we're seeing it in core infrastructure like data management, data protection. They're also trying to leverage their data better, make sure it's not fragmented. So, how do you deliver more intelligent services? You know, securing the data insights from the beta, transforming the data and that combination, you know our ability to do that in a multi-cloud world like Isabel said, now with increasing edge work loads. Sometimes, you know, our customers say their data centers are the new edge too. So you kind of have this, you know, data everywhere, workloads everywhere, yet the desire to deliver that with a holistic experience, we call it the power of bank. The ability to manage your data and leverage the data with the simple lesson without compromise. And that's really what we're seeing as part of the future. >> Okay. Manoj I to come back to you and double click on that but I want to introduce Tim to the conversation here. You bring in the voice of the customer, as they say. Tim, my understanding is Mitchell has been a Commvault customer since the mid two thousands. So tell us why Commvault? What has kept you with the company for more than 15 years? >> Yeah! It was what, 2006 when we started and really when it all boils down to it, it's just as Isabel said, innovation. At Mitchell we're always looking to stay ahead of the trend. And, you know, just to like was mentioned earlier data is the most important part here. Commvault provides us peace of mind to protect and manage our data. And they do data protection for all of our environments, right now. We've been a partner to help enable our digital transformation including SAS and cloud adoption. When we start talking about the solutions we have, I mean we of course started in 2006. I mean, this was version six, if I remember right, this predates me at the company. Upgraded to seven, eight, nine. We brought in 10, brought in 11, brought in hyper scale and then moved on to bring in the Metallic. And Commvault provides the reason for this. I guess I should say is, Commvault provides a reliable backup but most importantly, recovery, rapid recovery. That's what gives me confidence. That's what helps me sleep better at night. So when I started looking at SAS, as a differentiator to protect our 036 environments or 065 environments. Metallic was a natural choice, and the one thing I wanted to add to that is it came out cheaper than us building it ourselves. When you take into account resources, as well as compute and storage. So again, just a natural choice. >> Yeah. As the saying goes, back up is one thing, recoveries everything. Isabel you know we've seen the SAS suffocation of the enterprise, particularly, you know from the app side. You came from Salesforce. So you, the company that is the poster child for SAS. But my question is what's catalyzing this shift and why do you think data protection is ready to make the move? >> Well, there's so many good things about SAS. You know, you remember when people started moving to the cloud and transforming their CapEx into OPEX, well SAS bring yet another level of benefits. I.T, we know always has to do more with less. And so SAS allows you to, once you set up you've got all the software upgrades automatically without you know, I think it's smart work. You can better manage your cash flow because you pay as you grow. And also you have a faster time to value. So all of this at help, the fast adoption and I will tell you today, I don't think there is a single customer who doesn't have at least one SAS application because they have things of value of this. Now, when it comes to backup and recovery, everybody's at different stages you still have on premise, you have cloud, they have SAS and workloads devices. And so what we think was the most important was to offer a raw choice of delivery model. Being able to support them if they want software subscription, if they want an integrated appliance or easy one as SAS. As a service model, and also some of our partners are actually delivering this in a more custom and managed way as well. So offering choice because everybody is at a different stage on this journey when it comes to data management and protection, I actually, you know I think team is the example of taking full advantage or this broad choice. >> Well, you mentioned Tim that you leaned into Metallic. We have seen the SAS everywhere. We used to have a email server, right? I mean, (laughing) on prem, that just doesn't happen anymore. But how was Mitchell International thinking about SAS? Maybe you could share your, from your customer perch, what you're seeing. >> Well, What's interesting about this is Mitchell is been providing SAS for a long time. We are a technology company and we do provide solutions, SAS solutions to our customers. And this makes it so important to be able to embrace it because we know the value behind it. We're providing that to our customers. And when I look at what Commvault is doing I know that Commvault is doing the same thing. They're providing the SAS model as a value to their customers. And it's so important to go with this because we keep our environments cutting edge. As GDPR says, you need to have a cutting edge environment. And if you don't, if you cannot check that box you do not move forward. Commvault has that. And this is one less thing that I have to worry about when choosing Metallic to do my backup of O365. >> So thank you for that, Tim. So Manoj, thinking about what you just heard from Isabel and Tim, you know kind of fitting into a company's cloud or hybrid cloud, more importantly strategy, you were talking before about this. And in other words, it's not an either or, it's not a zero sum game. It's simpatico, if you will. I wonder if you could elaborate. >> Yeah. The power of band Dave I'm very proud of that. You know, when I think of the power of band I think of actually folks like Tim, our customers and Commonwealth first, right. And, really that need for choice. So for example, you know customers on various different paths to the cloud, we kind of homogenize it and say, they're on a cloud journey or they're on a digital transformation journey but the journey looks different. And so part of that, and as Isabella was saying is really the ability to meet them where they are in that journey. So for example, do you, go in there and say, "Hey, you know what I'm going to be some customers 100% multi-cloud or single cloud even. And that includes SaaS applications and my infrastructure running as a service." So there's a natural fit there saying great all your data protection. You're not going to be running software appliances for that. So you've got to data protection, data management as a service that Metallic is able to offer across the whole estate. And that's, you know, that's probably a small set of customers, but rapidly growing. Then you see a lot more customers were saying I'm going to do away as you're talking about with the email server, I'm going to move to Office 365 leverage the power of Teams. And there's a shared responsibility model there which is different than an on-prem data protection use case. And so they're, they're able to just add on Metallic to the existing Commvault environment whether it's a Commvault software or hyper-scale and connect the two. So it's a single integrated experience. And then you kind of go to the other end of the spectrum and say "great" customers' all in on a SaaS delivered data protection, as you know and you hear a lot from a lot of your guests and we hear from our customers, there's still a lot of data sitting out there. you know 90 plus percent of workloads in data centers, increasing edge data workloads. And if you were to back up one of those data workloads and say that the only copy can be in the cloud, then that would take like a 10 day recovery SLA. You know, we have some competent users who say that then that's what they have. Our flexibility, our ability to kind of bring in the hyper-scale deployment and just, you know dock it into Metallic and have a local copy instant recovery, SLA, remote backup copy in the cloud for ransomware or your worst case scenario. That's the kind of flexibility. So all those are scenarios we're really seeing with our customers. And that's kind of really the power of mandates. Very unique part of our portfolio. Companies can have portfolio products but to have a single integrated offering with that flexibility, that kind of depending on the use case you can start here and grow into a different point. That's really the unique part of the power event. >> Yeah, yeah. 10 day RTO just doesn't cut it, but Tim, maybe maybe you could weigh in here. Why, what was the catalyst for you adopting Metallic and maybe you could share what was the business impact there? >> Well, the catalyst and impact obviously two different things. The catalyst, when we look at it, there was a lot of what are we going to do with this? We have an environment, we need to back it up and how are we going to approach this? So we looked at it from a few different standpoints and of course, when it boils down to it one of the major reasons was the financial. But when we started looking at everything else that we have available to us and the flexibility that Commvault has in rolling out new solutions, this really was a no brainer, at this point. We are able to essentially back up new features and new products, as soon as they're available. within our Metallic environment we are running the activate. We are running the, the self-service for the end users, to where they can actually recover their own files. We are adding the teams into it to be able to recover and perform these backups for teams. And I want to step aside really quick and mention something about this because I'd been with, you know, Metallic for a long time and I'd been waiting for this. We've been waiting for an ability to do these backups and anyone I know, Manoj knows that I've been waiting for it. And you know, Commvault came back to me a while back and they said, we just have to wait for the API. We have to wait for Microsoft to release it. Well, I follow the news. I saw Microsoft released the API and I think it may have been two days later that Commvault reached out to me and said, Hey we got it available. Are you ready to do this? And that sort of turned around, that sort of flexibility, being on top of new applications with that, with Salesforce, that is, you know just not necessarily the reason why I adopted Metallic but one of those things that puts a smile on my face because I adopted Metallic. >> Well, that's an interesting story. I mean, you get the SDKs and if you're a leader you get them, you know, you can put the resources on it and you're ready when, when the product comes to GA. Manoj, I wonder if we could talk about just the notion of backing up a SAS. Part of the announcements today included within Metallica included backup and, and offerings for dynamics 365. But my question is why support dynamics specifically in in SAS apps generally? I mean, customers might say, doesn't my SAS provider protect my data. Why do I need a third party? And, and the second part of that question is why Commvault? >> Dave, a great question as always. I'll start with the second part of the question. It's really three words, the shared responsibility model, and, you know, a lot of times our customers, as they go into the cloud model they really start understanding that there is something, that you're getting a lot of advantages that certain things you don't have to do. But the shared responsibility model is what every cloud and SAS provider will indoctrinate in it's in desolate. And certainly the application data is owned by the customer. And the meaning of that is not something that, you know some SAS provider can understand. And so that requires specialized skills. And that's a partnership where we've done this now very successfully with Microsoft and LG 65. We've added support for Salesforce, And we see a rapid customer adoption because of that shared responsibility model, If you have a, some kind of an admin issue as we have seen in the news somebody changed their team setting and then lost all their chat. Then that data is discoverable. And you, the customer, responsible for making sure that data is discoverable or ransomware attacks. Again, covering that SAS data is your responsibility because the attack could be coming in from your instance, not from the SAS provider. So those are the reasons dynamics is, you know one of the fastest growing SAS applications from a business applications perspective out there. And as we looked at our roadmap and you look at at the right compliment. What is arriving by the agency, we're seeing this part of a Microsoft's business application suite growing, you know, millions of users out there and it's rapidly growing. And it's also integrated with the rest of the Microsoft family. So we're now, you know, proud to say that we support all three Microsoft clouds by Microsoft 365 dynamics. Those applications are increasingly degraded so we're seeing commonality in customer base and that's a business critical data. And so customers are looking to manage the data, have solutions that they can be sure they can leverage, it's not just protecting data from worst-case scenarios. In the case of some of the apps like dynamics we offer a support, like setting up the staging environment. So it's improving productivity off the application admins and that's really kind of that the value we're bringing able to bring to the table. >> Yeah. You know, that shared responsibility model. I'm glad you brought that up because I think it's oftentimes misunderstood but when you talk to CSOs, they understand it well. They'll tell you the shared responsibility is my responsibility. You know, maybe the cloud provider who will secure the the object storage bucket for the physical space, but it's, it's on me. So that's really important. So thank you for that. Isabelle, last question. The roadmap, you know how do you see Commvaults, Metallic, SAS portfolio evolving? what can you tell us? >> Oh, well, it has a big strategic impact on Commvault for sure, first because all of our existing customer as you mentioned earlier, 25 years, it's a lot of customer will have somehow some workload as SaaS. And so the ability without adding more complexity without adding another vendor just to be able to protect them in one take, and as teams, they bring a smile to his face is really important for us. The second is also a lot of customer come toCommvault from Metallic. This is the first time they enter the Commvault community and Commvault family and as they start protecting their SaaS application they realize that they could leverage the same application to protect their on-premise, data as well. So back to the power of hand and without writing off their past investments, you know going to the cloud at the pace they want. So from that perspective, there is a big impact on our customer community that quickened that Metallic brings. I don't know Manojs' way too humble, but, you know he doubled his customers every quarter. And, you know, we have added 24 countries to the portfolio, to the product. So we see a rapid adoption. And so obviously back to your question, we see the impacts of Metallic growing and growing fast because of the market demand because of the rapid innovation. We can take the Commvault technology and put it in the SaaS model and our customers really like it. So I'm very excited. I think it's going to be, you know, a great innovation, a great positive impact for customers and our new customer will welcome it, which by the way I think half, Manoj correct me but I think half of the Metallic customer at Commvault and the other half are new to our family. So, so they're very bullish about this. And it's just the beginning, as you know we all 25 year old or sorry, 25 year young and looking forward to the next 25. >> Well, I can confirm, you know we have a data partner, survey partner ETR enterprise technology research, and I was looking at the Commvault data and it shows within the cloud segment, when you cut the data by cloud, you're actually accelerating the spending momentum is accelerating. And I think it's a function of, you know some of the acquisitions you've made some of the moves. You made an integration. So congratulations on 25 years and you know you're riding the correct wave. Isabel, Manoj, Tim thanks so much for coming in the cube. It was great to have you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Dave. >> I really appreciate it. >> And thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Volante for the Cube. We'll see you next time.

(Upbeat Music) >> Commvault was an idea that incubated as a project inside of Bell Labs, one of the most prestigious research and development organizations in the world, back in the day. It became an official company in 1996, and Commvault just celebrated its 25th anniversary As such, Commvault has had to reinvent itself many times over the past two and a half decades from riding the waves of the very early PC networking era to supporting a rich set of solutions for the evolving enterprise. This includes things like cloud computing, ransomware, disaster recovery, security compliance, and pretty much all things data protection and data management. And with me to talk about the company, its vision for the future with also a voice of the customer are three great guests. Isabelle Guis is the Chief Marketing Officer of Commvault, Manoj Nair is the GM of Metallic, and Tim Carben is a Principal Systems Engineer with Mitchell International. Folks, welcome to the Commvault power panel. Come inside theCUBE. It's awesome to have you. [Isabelle] Great to be here today. >> All right. First of all, I got to congratulate you celebrating 25 years. That's a long time, not a lot of tech companies make it that far and are still successful and relevant. So Isabelle, maybe you could start off. What do you think has been the driving factor for your ability to kind of lead through the subsequent technological waves that I alluded to upfront? >> So well, 25 years is commendable but we are not counting success in number of years. We're really counting success in how many customers we've helped over those years. And I will say what has been the driving matter for us as who that, has been innovating with our customers. You know, we were there every step of the way when they migrate to hybrid cloud. And now as they go to multi-cloud in a post COVID world where they have to win gold you know, distributed workforce, different types of workloads and devices, we all there too. We assess workload as well. So the innovation keep coming in, thanks to us listening to our customer and then, adding needs that change over the last 25 years and probably for the next 25 as well. You know, we want to be here for customer was thinking that data is an asset, not a liability. And also making sure that we offer them a broad range of use cases to quote why things simple because the world is getting too complex for them. So let's take the complexity on us. >> Thank you for that. So Manoj, you've riffed on the cube before about, you know putting on the binoculars and looking at the future. So, let's talk about that. Where do you see the future for this industry? What are some of the key driving factors that matter? >> It's great to be back on theCUBE. You know, we see our industry no different than lots of other industries. The SaaS Model is rapidly being adopted. And the reason is, you know customers are looking for simplicity, simplicity not just in leveraging, you know the great technology that Commvault has built, but in the business model and the experience. So, you know, that's one of the fastest growing trends that started in consumer apps and other applications, other B to B apps. And now we're seeing it in core infrastructure like data management, data protection. They're also trying to leverage their data better. Make sure it's not fragmented. So how do you deliver more intelligent services? You know, securing the data, insights from the data, transforming the data, and that combination, you know, our ability to do that in a multi-cloud world like Isabelle said, now with increasing edge work loads. Sometimes, you know, our customers say their data centers has a new edge too. So you kind of have this, you know, data everywhere workloads everywhere, yet the desire to deliver that with a holistic experience, we call it the 'power of bank'; the ability to manage your data and leverage the data with the simple lesson without compromise. And that's really what we're seeing as part of the future. >> Okay. I don't know if all want to come back to you and double click on that, but I want to introduce Tim to the conversation here. You bring in the voice of the customer, as they say. Tim, my understanding is Mitchell has been a Commvault customer since the mid-2000s. So, tell us why Commvault, what has kept you with the company for more than 15 years? >> Yeah, we are, it was what, 2006 when we started. And really what it all boils down to it, it's just as Isabel said, innovation. At Mitchell, we're always looking to stay ahead of the trend. And, you know, just to like was mentioned earlier, data is the most important part here. Commvault provides us peace of mind to protect and manage our data. And they do data protection for all of our environments right now. We've been a partner to help in navel our digital transformation including SaaS and cloud adoption. When we start talking about the solutions we have, I mean we of course started in 2006. I mean, this was version version 6 if I remember right. This predates me at the company. Upgraded to seven, eight, nine, we brought in ten, brought in eleven, brought in HyperScale, and then moved on to bring in the Metallic. And Commvault provides the reason for this. I guess I should say is, Commvault provides a reliable backup but most importantly, recovery. Rapid recovery. That's what gives me confidence. That's what helps me sleep better at night. So when I started looking at SaaS as a differentiator to protect our 036 environments or 065 environments, Metallic was a natural choice. And the one thing I wanted to add to that is, it came out cheaper than us building it ourselves. When you take into account resources as well as compute and storage. So again, just a natural choice. >> Yeah. As the saying goes back up as one thing, recovery's everything. Isabelle. Yeah, we've seen the SaaSification of the enterprise. Particularly, you know from the app side. You came from Salesforce. So you, the company that is the poster child for SaaS. But my question is what's catalyzing this shift and why do you think data protection is ready to make the move? >> Well, there's so many good things and that's that. As you know, you remember when people started moving to the cloud and transforming their CAPEX into OPEX. Well SaaS bring yet another level of benefits. IT, we know always has to do more with less. And so SaaS allows you to, once you set up, you've got all the software upgrades automatically without you know, I think it's, why it works. You can better manage your cash flow, because you pay as you grow. And also you have a faster time to value. So all of this at help, the fast adoption and I will tell you today I don't think there is a single customer who doesn't have at least one SaaS application because they have things of value of this. Now, when it comes to backup and recovery everybody's at different stages. You still have On-Premises, you have cloud, there's SaaS, there's Workloads devices. And so what we think was the most important was to offer a broad choice of delivery model being able to support them if they want a software subscription, if they want an integrated appliance, or if they want SaaS as a service model, and also some of our partners actually delivering this in a more custom and managed way as well. So offering choice, because everybody is at a different stage on this journey. When it comes to data management and protection, I actually, you know, I think team is the example of taking full advantage of this bold choice. >> Well, you mentioned Tim that you leaned into Metallic. We have seen the SaaS everywhere. We used to have a email server, right? I mean, you know, On-Prem, that just doesn't happen anymore. But how was Mitchell International thinking about SaaS? Maybe you could share your, from your customer perch, what you're seeing. >> Well, what's interesting about this is, Mitchell is been providing SaaS for a long time. We are a technology company and we do provide solutions, SaaS solutions, to our customers. And this makes it so important to be able to embrace it because we know the value behind it. We're providing that to our customers. And when I look at what Commvault is doing I know that Commvault is doing the same thing. They're providing the SaaS Model as a value to their customers. And it's so important to go with this because we keep our environments cutting edge. As GDPR says, You need to have a cutting edge environment. And if you don't, if you cannot check that box you do not move forward. Commvault has that. And this is one less thing that I have to worry about when choosing Metallic to do my backup of O365. >> So thank you for that, Tim. So Manoj, thinking about what you just heard from Isabelle and Tim, you know, kind of fitting into a company's cloud or hybrid cloud, more importantly, strategy, you were talking before about this. "And", in other words, it's not an either or it's not a zero sum game. It's simpatico, if you will. I wonder if you could elaborate. >> Yeah, no The Power of And, Dave, I'm very proud of that. You know, when I think of The Power of And I think of actually folks like Tim, our customers and Commonwealth first, right. And, and really that, that need for choice. So for example, you know, customers on various different paths to the cloud we kind of homogenize it and say, they're on a cloud journey or they're on a digital transformation journey, but each journey looks different. And so part of that, "And", as Isabella was saying, is really the ability to meet them where they are in that journey. So for example, you know, do you, go in there and say, Hey, you know what, I'm going to be some customers 100% multi-cloud or single cloud even. And that includes SaaS applications and my infrastructure running as a service. So there's a natural fit there saying great all your data protection. You're not going to be running software appliances for that. So you've got to data protection, data management as a service that Metallic is the able to offer across the whole S state. And that's, you know, that's probably a small set of customers, but rapidly growing. Then you see a lot more customers were saying I'm going to do away as you're talking about but the emails are where I'm going to move to office 365, leverage the power of teams. And there's a Shared Responsibility Model there which is different than an On-Prem data protection use case. And so they're, they're able to just add on Metallic to the existing Commonwealth environment, whether it's a Commonwealth software or HyperScale, and connect the two. So it's a single integrated experience. And then you kind of go to the other end of the spectrum and say, great customers all in on a SaaS delivered data protection, as you know, and you hear a lot from a lot of your guests and we hear from our customers, there's still a lot of data sitting out there, you know, 90 plus percent of workloads and data centers increasing edge data workloads. And if you were to back up one of those data workloads and say that the only copy can be in the cloud, then that would take like a 10 day recovery isolation. You know, we have some competitors who say that then that's what they have. Our flexibility, our ability to kind of bring in the Hyper-Scale deployment and just, you know, dock it into Metallic, and have a local copy, instant recovery, SLA, remote, you know, backup copy in the cloud for ransomware, or your worst case scenario. That's the kind of flexibility. So all those are scenarios we're really seeing with our customers. And that's kind of really the power advantage. A very unique part of our portfolio, but, you know, companies can have portfolio products, but to have a single integrated offering with that flexibility, that kind of, depending on the use case, you can start here and grow into a different point. That's really the unique part of the power event. Yeah, 10 day RTO just doesn't cut it, but Timmy, maybe you could weigh in here. Why, What was the catalyst for you adopting Metallic and maybe you could share what was the business impact there? >> Well, the catalyst and impact, obviously two different things. The catalyst, when we look at it, there was a lot of what are we going to do with this? We have an environment, we need to back it up, and how are we going to approach this? So we looked at it from a few different standpoints, and of course, when it boils down to it, one of the major reasons was the financial. But when we started looking at everything else that we have available to us and the flexibility that Commvault has in rolling out new solutions, this really was a no brainer at this point. We are able to essentially back up new features and new products, as soon as they're available. Within our Metallic environment, we are running the activate. We are running the the self-service for the end users to where they can actually recover their own files. We are adding the teams into it to be able to recover and perform these backups for teams. And I want to step aside really quick and mentioned something about this because I'd been with, you know, Metallic for a long time and I'd been waiting for this. We've been waiting for an ability to do these backups and anyone I know Manoj knows that I've been waiting for it. And you know, Commvault came back to me a while back and they said, we just have to wait for the API. We have to wait for Microsoft releases. Well, I follow the news. I saw Microsoft released the API, and I think it may have been two days later. Good. Commvault reached out to me and said, Hey we got it available. Are you ready to do this? And that sort of turned around that sort of flexibility being on top of new applications with that, with Salesforce, that is, you know, just not necessarily the reason why I adopted Metallic but one of those things that puts a smile on my face because I adopted Metallic. >> Well, that's an interesting story. I mean, you get the SDKs and if you're a leader you get them, you know, you can put the resources on it and you're ready when, when the product, you know, comes to GA. Manoj, I wonder if we could talk about just the notion of backing up SaaS, part of the announcements today included within Metallic included backup and offerings for Dynamics 365. But my question is why support Dynamics specifically in SaaS apps generally? I mean, customers might say, doesn't my SaaS provider protect my data? Why do I need a third party? And, and the second part of that question is why Commvault? >> Dave a great question as always. I'll start with the second part of the question. It's really three words the Shared Responsibility Model. And, you know, a lot of times our customers as they go into the cloud model they really start understanding that there is something that you're getting a lot of advantages the certain things you don't have to do, but the Shared Responsibility Model is what every cloud and SaaS provider will indoctrinate in its S&As. And certainly the application data is owned by the customer. And the meaning of that is not something that, you know, some SaaS provider can understand. And so that requires specialized skills. And that's a partnership. We've done this now very successfully with Microsoft and LG 65, we've added support for Salesforce, and we see a rapid customer adoption because of that Shared Responsibility Model. If you have, some kind of, an admin issue as we have seen in the news somebody changed their team setting and then lost all their chat. And then that data is discoverable. And you, the customer is responsible for making sure that data is discoverable or ransomware attacks. Again, recovering that SaaS data is your responsibility because the attack could be coming in from your instance not from the SaaS provider. So those are the reasons. Dynamics is, you know, one of the fastest growing SaaS applications from a business applications perspective out there. And as we looked at our roadmap, and you look at at the right compliment, what is the right adjacency, we're seeing this part of Microsoft's Business Application Suite growing, you know, as millions of users out there and it's rapidly growing. And it's also integrated with the rest of the Microsoft family. So we're now, you know, proud to say that we support all three Microsoft clouds, Microsoft Azure, or 365, Dynamics. Those applications are increasingly integrated so we're seeing commonality in customer base and that's a business critical data. And so customers are looking to manage the data, have solutions that they can be sure they can leverage. It's not just protecting data from worst-case scenarios. In the case of some of the apps like Dynamics, we offer a support, like setting up the staging environment. So it's improving productivity of the application admins, and that's really kind of that the value we're bringing able to bring to the table. >> Yeah. You know, that Shared Responsibility Model. I'm glad you brought that up because I think it's oftentimes misunderstood but when you talk to CSOS, they understand it well. They'll tell you the shared responsibility is my responsibility. You know, maybe the cloud provider will secure the object storage bucket for the physical space, but it's on me. So that's really important. So thank you for that. Isabelle, last question, the roadmap, you know, how do you see Commvault's, Metallic SaaS portfolio evolving? What can you tell us? >> Oh, well, it's, it has a big strategic, you know, impact on Commvault for sure on the first portfolio first because of all of our existing customers as you mentioned earlier, 25 years, it's a lot of customers are somehow some workload as SaaS. And so the ability without, you know, adding more complexity without adding another vendor just to be able to protect them in one take, and as teams they bring a smile to his face is really important for us. The second is also a lot of customers come to Commvault for Metallic. This is the first time enter the Commvault community and Commvault family. And as they start protecting their assessed application they realize that they could leverage the same application to protect their own premised data as well. So back to The Power of And, and without writing off their past investments, you know, going to the cloud at the pace they want. So from that perspective, there is a big impact on our customer community the thing is that Metallic it brings I don't know Manoj is way too humble, but, you know, he don't go to this customer every quarter. And, you know, we have added 24 countries to the portfolio, to the product. So we see a rapid adoption. And so obviously back to your question, we see the impacts of Metallic growing and growing fast because of the market demand, because of the rapid innovation we can take the Commvault technology and put it in the SaaS model and our customers really like it. So I'm very excited. I think it's going to be, you know, a great innovation, a great positive impact for customers, and our new customers we're welcoming, which by the way I think half, Manoj correct me, but I think half of the Metallic customer at Commvault and the other half are new to our family. So, they're very bullish about this. And it's just the beginning, as you know, we are 25 years old, or sorry, 25 years young, and looking forward to the next 25. >> Well, I can confirm, you know, we have a data partner survey, partner ETR, Enterprise Technology Research, and I was looking at the Commvault data and it shows within the cloud segment, when you cut the data by cloud, you're actually accelerating, the spending momentum is accelerating. And I think it's a function of, you know, some of the acquisitions you've made, some of the moves you made in integration. So congratulations on 25 years and you know, you're riding the correct wave, Isabelle, Manoj, Tim, thanks so much for coming in theCUBE. It was great to have you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Dave. >> I really appreciate it. >> And thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We'll see you next time. (Upbeat Music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE's Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE conversation. >> Welcome to this CUBE conversation with Commvault, I'm Lisa Martin, looking forward to having a spirited conversation with my two guests, please welcome Janet Giesen, the VP of Operations and Programs for Metallic, A Commvault Venture. Janet, welcome to theCUBE. >> Yeah, it's happy to be here. >> And joining us from EMEA is Mark Jow, the EMEA VP of Technical Sales at Commvault. Hey Mark, good afternoon to you. >> Good afternoon Lisa, it's great to be here with you. >> So just about a year or so ago, theCUBE had the pleasure of being at Commvault GO 2019 and where Metallic was launched, so happy birthday to Metallic. Some evolution and some recent news. Janet, walk us through what you guys have accomplished recently. >> Absolutely, so last year we launched with three product offerings to Metallic, Office 365 Backup, Endpoint Backup and Backup of Core data like VMs and files. In that year since we started with US only, we're now in Canada and Australia, as well as now in our first set of countries in EMEA which Mark will talk about it a little bit and we've greatly expanded our product offerings. One of the things we did, we just launched the discovery, which is a big deal for folks especially looking for compliance applications and their data protection. So we've had a real journey here and just this quarter, as you see we are doubling our product offerings to Metallic and tripling our country availability. So we're doing a lot and we're a leader in the data protection as a service space. >> A lot accomplished in just a 12 month time period, give me a little bit of a preview Janet, why was metallic launched last year for North America, US expanded to Canada and then I see it was announced... It was launched in Australia, New Zealand in the late summer 2020. I know that the cloud market... Their cloud adoption is quite high but give us a little bit of an overview of the actual go to market sequence from a regional perspective. >> Absolutely, and I'll want Mark to really take this one as well. We started in US only in our initial launch, that's where our first launch event was. That's where a lot of our pilot customers were, and then we expanded to Canada, Australia now EMEA, and this is very thoughtful. You have one chance to really launch in a geography. And we wanted it to take all the steps, whether it was compliance, trademarking, cloud storage availability. We leveraged our partnership with Microsoft and Azure for these launches. And really making sure we had everything lined up to best serve our customers. Mark what would you say about this strategy as well? >> Yeah, I think certainly, I mean the strategy is the right one, it's the right one for following reasons. If you look back to 12 months ago, I think in Colorado, I had a GO user event when we launched Metallic, I was fortunate enough to be hosting a number of EMEA partners and customers, and they were clamoring for the product, they're excited by it, they wanted it. We were (indistinct) some cases pressured to think about releasing it earlier. But all those customers wanted a product that was reversed, secure and coping with specific EMEA requirements that they have for the product in particular GDPR and supporting levels of compliance and data privacy that EMEA has rigorous standards for. And I think if you look at Commvault as a company, you know we take our customer's data extremely seriously. We've got one channels to get this right as Janet said, and I expect our customers absolutely expect and deserve right first time. And so when we launch a product like Metallic with the diversity of workloads, the rigorous high performance and secure environments, we want to make sure it's tested properly, it's compliant in all the jurisdictions. And even in Europe, we think about Europe, it's not one given country, even the EU have different countries with different legal and tax nuances. We want to make sure that when our customers get Metallic, 'cause our customers thankfully first launch in EMEA now can. That purchasing, that user experience is seamless sales and frictionless, and the product stands the promises that we make to those customers. So fully behind half phased release for Metallic as are some of our initial early adopter customers in the geographies that we've launched in already. >> So let's talk about some of the massive changes that we've all experienced since last year, Mark I would stick with you, talk to us about some of the changes that you seen from EMEA customers with respect to data protection and data security 'cause we've seen a lot of things going on globally, ransomware on the rise, every 11 seconds there's a ransomware attack. What are some of the recent challenges that you're hearing from customers that you believe Metallic EMEA is going to resolve? >> Yeah, I mean certainly even before the current COVID crisis, we were seeing a huge increase in uptake of customers wanting to use SaaS applications and to protect SaaS workloads. And the growth thing adoption of Office 365 clearly has driven the need for compelling SaaS based solutions for that market. You overlay on that, the situation that COVID has created for us all. Which in reality is denying our customers with its two most valuable important assets, access to premises and access to staff. And increasingly the staff it does have access to a storing, protecting, generating and creating data, not in the data center, not in the cloud but on laptops. So really for us it's a perfect opportunity and we're seeing an increase in demand from our customers wanting rapid solutions to protecting and managing data, to have low footprint in terms of skills and staff and to reduce the need for them to buy physical infrastructure and to expand an already at capacity set premises. And in many cases they can't even get access to, so it's very much a perfect storm for the solution that Metallic provides. >> Yeah Janet, following onto that and just in terms of when Mark mentioned, you know especially when this first happened, not being able to get access to the premises, this massive pivot to work from home and suddenly millions of endpoints scattered globally. Talk to us about some of the things that you saw here in North America in terms of customer demands changing. >> Oh that's a great question, we absolutely saw changes. I mean I go back to what Satya Nadella said, the CEO of Microsoft. He even said in April and may that what we are seeing is two years of digital transformation happening in a two month period. And that's absolutely what we're seeing, so the interest in fact as Mark mentioned, and then interest in protecting endpoints, your laptops and your desktop, as you have an increasingly remote and distributed workforce has completely changed. I mean when we spoke to you last year ago, we had endpoint backup more for completeness to round out our portfolio. We didn't expect it to be a lead offering and take off the way it has. But now with the changes everyone's seeing and with what IT teams need to do with what security teams and cloud architects need to do, we're absolutely seeing that need for endpoint protection grow. >> Yeah, and just to add to that Lisa is the endpoint potentially is also seeing a change and a shift in the types of markets that are looking to Metallic as a solution, recall that we originally targeted Metallic and SMB mid market, market where people were looking for simple, predictable, low cost but yet still scalable infrastructure. The massive drive to protect endpoints and to maintain compliance and control of data there, is actually driving large enterprise customers to Commvault and Metallic as a solution for protecting not hundreds of endpoints, not thousands, not tens of thousands but hundreds of thousands of endpoints for some of the customers that we're not talking to. >> And that's probably going to be something that we see becomes permanent. You know we're seeing so many leaders, Satya Nadella you mentioned Janet, we've heard other ones, Antonio Neri from HPE saying you know I expect at least 50% of the workforce to stay remote. So this is... Was a big need, it was a big boom and a good amount of this is probably not going to change. How is Metallic positioned to help your customers not just survive this time but be able to thrive and become the winners of tomorrow? >> I think one real advantage of Metallic is the two technologies that it's built on top of, one is Metallic part of Commvault, so what we can do is evolve with the needs of our customers, take all that IP, all those patents decide what workloads are going to help our customers through this times and release those as new offerings delivered as PaaS, it allows us to be agile and to pivot as needed. And that's what you see as I said we're doubling our product offering, we're taking that feedback in real time and that's something we'll be announcing very soon, next month. In addition to that, we're also build on top of Microsoft Azure. So we're leveraging certainly their enterprise scalability, the trust and security that they have because we're really something that flexes from the one terabyte dataset to the 10,000 terabyte as you're looking to scale and protect your infrastructure. So we are poised to take on that agility, that time like these demand. >> Do you think, oh go ahead Mark. >> I think just to add to that as well is if you look at our existing customers that have been traditionally using on-prem Commvault complete software or they bought on a perpetual or subscription basis. A number of those have been looking for Metallic to protect some specific workloads, like endpoint for example, but the way we've done this is, the Metallic solution on the on-prem solution are manageable from a single Commvault interface, a command central interface. So it's not a temporary decision to move to SaaS and then that customer then has to move it back in order to control and manage it in an on-prem environment. They get the best of both worlds from two solutions fit for the purpose they are intended from a company that has a 20 year reputation in designing, building and selling scalable, secure data protection infrastructure. >> Reasonable question in terms of the management console. So for example Mark, the situation that you're talking about customers that may have been using Commvault on-prem for a long time now have had in the last year and now in EMEA the opportunity to leverage SaaS data protection for Office Microsoft 365 for example, endpoints. Talk to me a little bit about the management of that, if a customer, legacy Commvault customer has been using on-prem and now they add Metallic for SaaS, data protection for say Microsoft 365, is that managed by a single console? >> Exactly, it's managed by a command center console. So they can see, manage, control report, all of data that exists within the Metallic SaaS based solution, and that sits within that on-prem or their hybrid cloud environment, giving them that, that total flexibility. And with the recent announcement, the launch earlier in October of MCSS on Microsoft, sorry at Metallic Cloud Storage Solution, that also helps their customers that aren't yet looking to move to metallic, to make the step, to put some of their on-prem data rapidly and easily into cloud as a target, as a metallic cloud storage service. And that's a future stepping stone to a full metallic software as a service solution, should they so choose for a 365 or endpoint? So we're giving customers the ability to move from self-manage to fully managed with a SaaS solution in the middle. >> And for that target market perspective, Mark, some of the things that we've seen globally that are new targets, you mentioned ransomware on the rise, healthcare organizations, schools and governments, are there any specific industries that are going to be leading edge for Metallic in EMEA. >> What we've seen from the initial market data and the market uptake by segment from the America's names that launched is interest from every sector, but a particular interest from the sectors where technology is a key differentiator, particularly finance, banking, insurance, and the telco sector, the tech sector and the retail sector. Interestingly enough, we're also seeing in the government and public services sector from our recent Azure launch and some of the demand and interest in EMEA is validating this, customers in public sector organizations, central and local government who traditionally have been fixated on the CapEx buying model and on-prem solutions, moving and starting to look increasingly at SaaS to get solutions up running, protected and secured rapidly in the cloud. And so we're seeing an encouraging up-taking public sector organizations, which are using SaaS as a way to move from CapEx to OPEX models which is particularly reassuring. >> And Janet question for you if we look at data protection as a service, the fastest growing market segment rather in data protection market, what are some of the things that knowing Metallic's first year in the evolution, the changes that the world has seen, but also this demand for data protection as a service, what are some of the things that we can expect in Metallic's second year? >> Yeah so, first you're absolutely right. Data protection as a service is becoming increasingly popular. You know these are cloud based solutions, also known as backup as a service. And I think what we're finding as we talk to customers is everyone has a cloud based initiative, whether they're starting it or they're well on their way. So having a data protection as a service solution like Metallic can either be your first move into the cloud starting with your backup targets and leveraging MCSS as Mark explained as one way to do that, or it can just be another point in a customer's hybrid story. How they're starting to leverage data protection as a service, SaaS delivery. And there's this whole notion now of SaaS for SaaS. Now you need SaaS backup for your SaaS application to follow how the data moves, and that's what we're doing for Office 365. In the second year, we're certainly aiming to continue increasing our workload, supported the products that... And continuing our geo-expansion as we are right now with the EMEA, this is certainly critical as we continue. We'll also be looking to engage local partners, we work with resellers and distributors today, and we're also going to continue expanding our offerings in Azure marketplace. We went live in Azure marketplace last quarter and we're seeing transactions come through there and we want to continue building out our marketplace model as well. >> Last question Janet, you mentioned SaaS for SaaS and there's been a lot of talk about that recently with customers in every segment. And there was this sort of this a shared responsibility model that Microsoft has in Salesforce right in box. But it's been interesting and a lot of customers I've spoken with in the last few months in salesforce ended support for the data recovery service I think in end of July going, wait we thought it was in the cloud, we have to back it up. So is that another direction in terms of Metallics future of being able to protect more types of SaaS workloads besides Microsoft 365? >> Well that's certainly the idea and starting with Office 365, is how do we compliment what Microsoft already offers. Office 365 Salesforce, all of these tools, they are workflow tools, they're integral in organizations or they're just holding critical data. So how do we compliment that through data backup and protection that give them the controls they need. Whether it's policy customization, smart configurations to help them through this and now E discovery on top to be able to search and manage compliance needs. So we really want to be that kind of extra security blanket for all of these SaaS applications and that's really what we're aiming to do over time but Office 365 is our focus right now. >> Yeah, I think just pick out Lisa on Janet's point about the two points of scale for us about scaling out and launching in new markets and bringing new workloads into the Metallic portfolio. You know one of the things that we understand is we clearly we've seen significant demand for Office 365 and endpoint ussually as for Metallic. But let's also not lose sight of the fact that a number of organizations are coming to us to protect their VMs and their file server environments so being initially in small environments. And they're starting to ask us specifically about our plans to incorporate additional enterprise type on-prem workloads in a Metallic environment. And the fact that we've built 20 years of expertise in IOP in that space, we've been probably the quickest to launch the most innovative and wide this range of workloads in our on-prem and subscription based software makes it far easier for us to pivot and to extend over time rapidly, the workloads that Metallic supports for customers wanting to move traditionally on-prem workloads. That I'll just say 365 endpoint but VMs and other database workloads into the cloud. And that's a unique differentiator for where Metallic can take our customers, not just geographically but in terms of the diversity of workloads that we'll be able to cover. >> Great point Mark, absolutely. >> Well thank you both for explaining the evolution of Metallic, A Commvault Venture in its first year, giving us an insight into some of the recent new announcements and a peek into what's to come. Janet, Mark, we appreciate your time. >> Yeah, thank you. >> That's being a pleasure, thank you. >> For my guests, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE conversation. (upbeat music)

>> Just this quarter alone, Metallic is doubling its product offerings and tripling its country availability. So watch this space.

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, one of the hosts of theCUBE, and I just finished a conversation with Manoj Nair, who's the General Manager of Metallic, which is a Commvault venture and Ranga Rajagopalan, who's the Vice President of products with Commvault, and I can't give too much away, but great conversation, and let's just say that tomorrow the cloud is becoming a little bit closer to you. So, we will be releasing the video on our YouTube channel for SiliconANGLE at 11:30 Eastern on Tuesday, October 6, so tune in, make sure you watch it, look for the activity on social media, and thanks so much for joining, I'm Stu Miniman. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe it's theCUBE with digital coverage of Commvault Future Ready 2020 brought to you by Commvault. >> Hi and welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Commvault Future Ready. I'm Stu Miniman and I'm joined by David Vellante here. Of course, we just had the keynote for Commvault Future Ready, Sanjay Mirchandani, CEO. Dave, he's been there a little bit over a year. We've been watching the transformation of Commvault as they are trying to go much deeper in the cloud. Of course, the space, data protection overall, backup and recovery, been a super hot one. Especially, if you talk about everybody accelerating what they're doing with the cloud, Dave, from an end user standpoint, as well as for Commvault. So why don't we start with the company first, as I said, the move to subscription, the move to cloud, a lot of change needed, and that's one of the reasons they brought Sanjay into the company. Of course, he'd been at Puppet before that, he was the CIO of EMC before that. So Dave, tell us your thoughts lately on Commvault. >> Okay, so Commvault, obviously Stu, has been around for a long, long time, and it's kind of a diversified player in the data protection space. I've always felt like they've had a more diversified sort of vision and portfolio. Sanjay took over, what was it February last year, right? So he kind of came in and inherited a company in transition. And transitioning from what has largely been a legacy sort of on-prem, perpetual software licensed business to now one that's transferring into a subscription based model, obviously a large maintenance base. I think about 60% of their revenues comes from services, and most of that is maintenance, okay? So he's inherited that, and then they're going into a subscription model. So that's going to hit the income statement, and then boom COVID hits. So Sanjay is getting it all from all sides, but Commvault is a 670, roughly, million dollar company on a trailing 12 month basis. And the market cap's in the 1.7, 1.8 range, so they trade at about 2.7 times revenue. So that's much better than a hardware company, but it should be better than that as a software company. So the challenge that he has is, okay, how do we get the company growing again? How do we transition to that subscription based model? The good news on Commvault is their balance sheet is tremendous. I mean, they have no debt, no debt. I mean, several hundred million dollars in cash, over 300 million and zero debt, which kind of interesting to me, Stu. Because many companies during this COVID pandemic have tapped the credit markets, Commvault has chosen not to. Maybe they should right now with such low interest rates, and maybe that can help get the growth engine going. But I think they're very conservative in that standpoint and obviously very proud of their balance sheet, but with the likes of Cohesity and Rubrik, and I know we're going to talk about that pouring money into the market, trying to attack them, and we'll talk more about their position relative to those guys, you might like to see 'em raise a little bit of money or take on some debt and really go after some of those opportunities that you referred to upfront, it is a hot market. >> Yeah, well, Dave, you talk about some of the newer entrants raised just insane amounts of money when you talk about that space. Not only Cohesity and Rubrik, but also talked about Veem. Of course, we've watched Veem go from a change in ownership and how much money they have. And from a revenue standpoint, Veem actually might be bigger than Commvault at this point, I believe, right? >> Yeah, I think so. I mean, they're billion dollar bookings, they say. I mean, I believe it, but they're a privately held company. Commvault, we can tell actually what their numbers are. Guaranteed Cohesity and Rubrik are losing money. So their cost of acquiring a customer is huge. Commvault is, let's face it, it's servicing its install base, and it's mining that. And that's why it's, it's cashflow positive. I mean, it's a very healthy company financially. The challenge that, again, Sanjay has is how do you get growth? They're a company, as I said earlier, in transition. Let me share with you, if I may, some data from our friends at ETR. What we're showing here is the fundamental methodology of ETR, which is that net score, Stu. We talk about that all the time, ETR is, as I say, our data partner, Enterprise Technology Research. Every quarter, they go out and they say, "Based for each company and their various segments, "are you adopting new?" That's the lime green, that's the 2%. "Are you increasing spending?" That's the 30%, and this is from the July survey so this is relative to the first half. "Are you flat?" You can see that fat middle 56%, and then you can see decrease is 7% and that's in the pink, and then 5% replacing. So good news here is more people are spending more, more customers spending more, than are spending less. Net score's the red subtracted from the green, so it comes out at roughly 20%, which is that's certainly not terrible. It's a legacy company that's been around a long time. So you would see a company that's a newbie, that's hot. We'd always talked about UI path automation anywhere, Snowflake, they're in the 70% range, but they're much, much smaller companies but they're growing very, very rapidly. So this is respectable and very common for a company that has been around as long as Commvault. >> Yeah, thanks so much for sharing that data, Dave. Of course, as you said, huge customer base, they've been around for awhile. I remember when we first did Commvault GO two years ago, very excited, very engaged user base. There was a good strategy discussion and an understanding for what Commvault needed to do to get to the cloud, but there was an understanding that they couldn't keep doing with the same team what had brought them to the place before. You always say, Dave, what got you to where you were isn't going to get you to where you need to go. Talk a little bit about the keynote. Last year at Commvault there were a couple of big pieces. Number one, is they really had their first SaaS offering with Metallic. And what the momentum has been on Metallic is, first of all, they made a big partnership announcement with Microsoft ahead of this event. Multi-year, Metallic has a few different solutions. One of them, of course, is to work on Office 365, so when we go to SaaS and we go to the cloud, we understand that data protection isn't something that just comes inherently. Some people thought, "Oh hey, I did it "in my own data center, but once I go to the cloud, well, "I'm sure it just takes care of things "like data protection and security." The answer is I still need to think about it, and the ecosystem has helped filling that gap. So Metallic was the first step and what we saw, Dave, really looks like a holistic refresh of the product line. Commvault back in recovery, Commvault disaster recovery, Commvault complete data protection, all aligning themselves to be more to what you were talking about, going to that full ratable model, and the other piece was Hedvig. So Hedvig software company, helping them to be in more cloud-native environments. And they launched a Hedvig X, so it's the full integration of that solution. Less than a year from the acquisition to fully integrating it and making it an offering that's ready for what they're doing. >> Is that they're cloud play? Actually Hedvig is sort of in that space, right? As with cloud you think subscription, but also Commvault is basically putting its stack in the cloud, right? And taking advantage of cloud services, right? >> Yeah, absolutely, Dave. Metallic, specifically is built for the cloud. >> So let's talk a little bit about cloud, I have some other data here. And the cloud, if you pull up that next slide, the cloud has been eating away at on-prem vendors. We know it's been growing at 2000, 3000 basis points higher than the on-prem business. But what this slide shows is that same net score methodology that we talked about before, but it's filtering, you can see in the left hand side here, it's filtering on AWS, Google and Microsoft. So there's 585, AWS, Google and Microsoft customers in the ETR dataset. There's like about 1200 in the overall survey this quarter. And this shows the over time the net score of Commvault in those accounts, so you can see, as I was saying, go back to 2018, you can see prior to Sanjay taking over this thing was dipping and dipping, losing momentum coming into kind of the April survey and then July survey of 2019, and it's kind of bouncing off the bottom now. So it seems like they're making some progress there, and what we want to see is that momentum continue to grow. Again, net score is a measure of spending velocity. So what you want to see is as that transition occurs more sort of a net score increases over each quarter. >> Yeah, well, Dave as you mentioned earlier, there absolutely are some headwinds potentially there, but it looks like Sanjay, at least, has stopped some of the bleeding on this and, stated goal of course, to return to growth. And so we would want to see that go from just up one or 2% to be able to track with the cloud. Probably a good time for us to talk a little bit about the competition, Dave, because if you talk just in cloud markets, are you tracking along with the cloud? So the hyperscales themselves, of course, growing at very huge percent. A company that's been around as long as Veritas isn't necessarily going to be doing 35 to 70% growth as you would see from AWS or Azure. But what do you see out there for some of the competition in general, who were some of the key players that we need to look at? >> Yeah, so I mean, think about the backup guys. I mean, the traditional space, you've mentioned Veritas. Veritas, by the way, in the ETR survey data is not playing well, they're in the red. They've been losing share, the share donors, as they say, you've got some big players, Dell EMC, obviously, kind of living off the data domain base. Remember Dell EMC fell behind, prior to the Dell acquisition, they weren't investing heavily in the data protection business. They were kind of living milking off that data domain base. Back when you were there, they had the networker and they had Avamar, and so there was a bifurcated thing. Frank Slootman came and he tried to clean some of that up, but then he was onto his next big thing, of course, it was ServiceNow. And so, you know, Dell is a big footprint, obviously, but they're very hardware centric, as you know, so they have a big hardware agenda. IBM with Spectrum Protect, Veem was hurting them. They did the deal with Catalogic to kind of stop the bleeding, he kind of did. Again, big install base, and then you got the sort of newcomers. Veem is not really a newcomer anymore. I think they've been around for 15 years, big acquisition. Decent momentum in the market, especially started the Microsoft base, and they're kind of everywhere, so you see them. And of course you see Cohesity and Rubrik spend a lot of money, as you said. And it's interesting, let me pull up this next data point. In the ETR data set this past quarter you saw Cohesity actually overtake Rubrik. Rubrik was very, very strong earlier on. They're kind of neck and neck in this chart, what this chart shows is not net score, it's now market share. Now market shares, not real market shares, Stu. I have to be cautious here because it's not like IDC tracks market share. What it is is pervasiveness in the dataset. So in other words, within this segment, the number of mentions of the vendor divided by the total mentions in the segment, okay? So it's really pervasiveness or presence in the data set. And what this shows is you can see we've got 65 Commvault customers in the survey, and it shows the impact of Veem, Rubrik and Cohesity in the Commvault base. And you can see up through, let's see, that's the recent surveys is you see the increases up to the increasing red line is Veem, and then you got the Rubrik line and then the Cohesity line, but they're all recently, since the October 19th survey, down, trending down. So that says to me that Commvault is holding serve within its own base and actually doing better as these guys are declining in this base. You can see the comment that ETR made, "Rubrik, Cohesity and Veeam are all seeing "market share declines in shared accounts with Commvault," so that's good news. I think this is very important, Stu, and here's why. Is Commvault has got to hunker down and maintain those customers. It does not want to be a share donor much in the same way that Veritas has been. So that's a quick scan of the competitive marketplace. And again, from my standpoint, I'd like to see Sanjay maybe get a little bit more aggressive. I liked the acquisitions. Hedvig, it's great, deal with actually some more subscription, but I'd like to see them go hard after a cloud native. I have to dig into that, maybe you can comment, but really cloud native and multicloud across clouds being able to have that same experience on-prem as I do in the clouds at very high performance, very low latency. >> Yeah. Well, Dave, first of all, one thing, talk about the competitive win rate. That's something you always look at is how are you doing against the competitors? Not only did Sanjay come in, but you saw changes along how the channel chief, I believe, and the salespeople. So definitely reinvigorating that piece of it, as well as, Dave we saw, in the keynote. So the portfolio is updated, an aggressive engineering investment, some through acquisition, some through changing the code and moving in these environments, leveraging partnerships, great to see the Microsoft one, love to see something along the lines of Google. We understand Amazon, you play in that ecosystem, it is challenging to necessarily partner deeply with AWS, unless you're one of a few strong players in the marketplace, but working closer in cloud. And Dave, one thing I'd point out, last year, one of the things that really impressed me at Commvault GO is they did have some good developer actions. So when you talk about cloud native, of course, enabling developers is one of the key things. Like many companies out there, inside the company you've got developers, so how are you unleashing that? So Hedvig, a good acquisition along those lines, but you know, in the middle of the show floor, they had people that you set up with whiteboards and just go at it. So, you know, reminds me of days past when you used to have these engineering-driven shows where you could go in and really understand that. So helping to developers, enable them, backup and recovery just needs to tie into all my DevOps and IT Ops and all my other environments to make things just more automated because also you talk cloud native, Dave, automation has to be a big piece of it. And to your point, we actually have really good guests coming on the program. Not only will we have Sanjay, relatively fresh off the keynote, I've got a panel with the product people to really dig in and understand that. We'll poke and prod at some of the cloud native pieces and understand where that's going, got their head of strategy also on the program. >> Yes, I think you're making a great point about automation. Just speaking about M&A for a moment, I like M&A, I like growth through M&A, I'm comfortable with that as long as it fits into the portfolio. Your point about automation, I see opportunities there for M&A, things like visibility, observability, obviously hot analytics, automated operations, IT Ops, anything that sort of removes labor and complexity and gives me visibility across clouds. That I think is something that could be interesting, again, as long as it fits into the portfolio. I'll say this, I mean, Sanjay was at EMC and knows M&A because I've no doubt they were bringing all their M&A candidates to Sanjay and saying, "Okay, what do you think of this tech, do you use it?" Probably kick the tires a little bit, so he, I'm sure, was a part of those. I'm sure he saw the good, the bad, and the ugly. You were there, EMC was pretty good at acquisitions, but then it got a little out of control. >> And Dave, talk automation, Sanjay came from Puppet. Puppet was one of the early companies along helping people move along from those manual tasks to how can we automate those? So, absolutely, Sanjay now a little over a year in there, starting to see from the product standpoint, and expect to see some of the trailing results as to how that moves forward. >> And then again, blending that, if it's a tuck in or whatever, maybe there's some big chess move out there. I would just suspect given Commvault's conservative nature you wouldn't see that. Although, they could do it. I mean, at their revenue level, their balance sheet would allow them to raise some debt, if they wanted to do that now would be the time to do it. But it's interesting, everybody's doing it and they're not. So I kind of liked the contrarian play. Given the opportunity in the market, given the TAM expansion through, beyond backup into data management, and it's a cloud and multicloud, I do think there's maybe an opportunity for them to be a little bit more aggressive. >> All right, well, Dave, thanks so much for helping us dig in and kick off our coverage. >> You're welcome, Stu. >> All right, stay with us. We have a bunch of interviews here for Commvault Future Ready. I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you for watching theCUBE. (gentle music)

>> Commentator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE, covering HPE Discover Virtual Experience, brought to you by HPE. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover Virtual Experience. Rather than all getting together in one place like Las Vegas, we're getting to talk to people around the globe where they are, digging into some of the partner discussions here. Happy to welcome to the program Riccardo De Blasio. He is the Chief Revenue Officer from Commvault. Riccardo, thanks so much for joining us, great to see you. >> Hello Stu, great to be here. >> Excellent. So, you know, obviously HPE Discover, Commvault, and HPE, why don't you give us the latest on, on the partner up? >> Absolutely. Well, first of all, I would like to thank you, HPE, the whole team, not only for this invitation, but for the great partnership that we have, since actually many, many years. Well, things are going really, really well with HPE. We're very happy, we're very proud. I mean, I'm a chief revenue officer, so my title says it all. And if I look at the performances of our alliances in the last, 18 months. It's been a double digit grow and in some quarter, even a triple digit grow. Our relationship and engagement into the field are growing on a weekly basis and the amount of opportunity that we have in focusing in our pipeline with HPE are growing more and more and more. I believe we found, Steve, a good ying and yang, between the two companies, us being the leader of data protection in the market, and in conjunction with one of the largest server infrastructure service provider like HPE, you know, think about it one of the highest success that we are experience right now is Commvault through GreenLake as a backup, as a service, right? So many angles, our partnership, it's working and we just feel we are scratching really the tip of the iceberg. And the best is yet to come. So super excited to be here. Super excited for what's ahead of us. >> All right, Riccardo, well, last year, and we've had theCUBE at Commvault GO for a couple of years, a lot of discussion about the various consumption models, especially how cloud is fitting into things, whether it be a public cloud and backing up data, or SaaS models. Obviously Metallic was the, you know, star of the show at Commvault GO last year, You mentioned, the GreenLake offerings that you're doing with HPE to give back up as a service. So, bring us inside what you're hearing from your customers, how they are managing these various cloud offerings. >> Totally Stu. The adoption into cloud native apps, or moving workloads into cloud models, it is something that has been around for the last 10 years. Obviously, what the current situation is producing is a triggering event to really move in to a light speed transformation and adoption of any type of cloud models. And we believe as a backup and data protection provider, we are in the middle of it, experiencing a lot of benefits. I mean, at the end of the day, if you look at our Metallic offering a one of our blockbuster is backing up office 365, which is a cloud native app. After that, we got Salesforce, or we got ServiceNow, and so on, right? Before we move into more traditional endpoint data management like laptop, or MDM like mobile phone, but even if I look, you know, from an angle of our partnership with HPE, what I see most of the grow and opportunity has been on the GreenLakes platform. A lot of the opportunities that we have in our pipe that have been built in the last six months, where I see a lot of potential to do business together, 80% of them is with GreenLakes, there's always GreenLakes in the middle. >> Excellent. What are you hearing so much from customers? You know, you're the chief revenue officer, so is it the move from CapEx to OpEx? You know, bring us inside a little bit, the finance side and what you're hearing from customers as to how ready. Obviously, with the global pandemic, even puts more of a highlight on those cloud models. If I've done things right I should be able to either, scale up, if needed, or if I need to dial things down for a little while, hopefully I haven't locked myself into some environment. So I would love to hear a little bit more color from you on that piece of it. >> Absolutely, I believe you nailed it, Stu. There's definitely an operational driver behind, which is I can I scale up or down my data center without having the possibility to have people on the ground. And so how can I move into a virtual data center where I have computing, storage, networking, that can follow my peak of IO, according to my business need. And there's the other angle in the current crisis. Company often are not run, but CFO becomes more important, and there's a huge attention to cost, and everything that can be moved from perpetual into a ratable cost. And therefore, cloud has a better fit for that. And, and then last but not least, is also, you know, the better integration that a lot of cloud models provide you with the cloud native apps, right? I mean, can you run Salesforce on-prem? Not really, right. So how can you have a dashboard of different business application and operational application that are better integrated with the cloud native apps. So the more you can offer your client, I.e. GreenLakes, or Metallic, or Commvault, are cloud native services that is naturally integrated with the current cloud native apps, the more you're going to make their life easier. >> One of the big items when you talk about cloud are, you know, compliance and security. Bring us inside what that means when you're dealing with HPE and Commvault together? Sure, I mean, our two organization are traditionally extremely well positioned in the enterprise markets. And when I say enterprise market, I'm talking also about the public sector, vertical, so often or financial service, often vertical industry which are heavily regulated, I think, this is one of the better benefits our joint solution offer to our clients. We know how to deal with this type of environment since the last three decades. And very often we've been at the center of that complexity. So we got the playbook that has been written a number of years ago and re-polished every year. So we feel very strong that every time we win together, one of the competitive advantage we have against our competition is precisely that ability to navigate through a heavily regulated, heavily compliance, enterprise environment that often some of our competitor, they don't have the structure, the culture, the skill set and the tools in order to make our customers life easier on that perspective. >> Excellent. Riccardo, Commvault works with many partners, what makes the HPE partnership special? >> So I think you know what I said earlier, definitely, I would say the first thing is a market segmentation over enterprise. We are experiencing a lot of success with our enterprise client. I look at the joint pipeline that we built together, I would say 90% of the clients are Global 2000 customers. And so that is definitely one number. Number two is, you know how much work we did collectively in integrating our product line and platform together. So if you look, you know, the Commvault Complete solution, and very soon also Metallic, but even Advik, that has been done a lot of effort on that side, there are natively integrated with open API so that our client really will not feel the difference of having two different silos solution. And and then last but not least, the same strategic goal and view of pushing cloud based model, a ratable model, GreenLake for HPE, and Metallic and Advik for Commvault. >> Excellent. You mentioned some of the shifting models to some of the newer solutions. Integration partnership take a little bit of time, but, what should we be expecting from, Commvault in the partnership with HPE for the rest of 2020? >> Absolutely, Steve. Definitely an acceleration. We took the decision at Commvault to focus on fewer partners but very relevant to us. We're very happy to say that HPE is one of them. And we want to do more from a product integration perspective. So the next one in line would be Metallic, and how the Metallic play and integration will play into GreenLakes and into a lot of HPE products. But also we want to do more with our field engagement. So now we have weekly or monthly, quarterly, weekly engagement with our, with our two fields organization just in order to better serve our clients and often do business with the same channel partners that we have in our ecosystem. >> Excellent. Riccardo, thank you so much for joining us. We're really pleasured to talk. >> Thank you, thank you Stu, And thank you HPE for the great partnership and opportunity. >> All right, lots more coverage from theCUBE HPE Discover Virtual Experience. I'm Stu Miniman, and thank you for watching theCUBE (upbeat mellow music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Denver, Colorado, it's theCUBE. Covering Commvault GO 2019, brought to you by Commvault. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Commvault GO 19, from Colorado. I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. Stu and I are pleased to welcome somebody new to theCUBE and to Commvault. We've got Tom Broderick, VP of Strategy and Chief of Staff to the CEO of Commvault. Tom, welcome to the program. >> Thanks for having me. >> So, I like you're on brand, the new Commvault venture, >> Yeah, I got to sport the colors, right? >> Metallic, very nice. >> That's right, I had the big jacket on yesterday, so. >> Oh wow, all right. So lots of change at Commvault. You're new as well, you've worked with Sanjay, now this is your third different company working with Sanjay Mirchandani, the CEO. Talk to us a little bit about your short time here at Commvault. There's been so much change that he's driving, cultural change, Metallic was something that was conceived, designed, built in a very short time period, a lot of acceleration. Your first few months here, what's it's been like? >> It's been, obviously, a ton of activity. And, one of the things that we know, and I think it's obvious, Commvault as a company has been in this state of transition. You bring a new CEO on, and we've got a new leadership team, that is merging well with the core leadership team of people that have a lot experience at the company and it's working really well. From the beginning we knew that we needed to focus on three areas, inside the company and outside. It's really around, as we talk to folks, around simplifying our business. And when we say that, normally in an event like this it goes towards how do we simplify working with our partners, how do we simplify working with our customers, how do we simplify our products, that kind of thing. But, from my perspective, one of the things that I focus on, is also, how we focus on simplifying ourselves on the inside, because this is an area where we can be much more efficient in how we bring our technology to the marketplace. So I'm focused on breaking down silos, I'm focused on driving effective communication in the business, so that we can deliver that technology to our partners and our customers. So, simplifying the business. Innovation is the next big key. So, obviously, our technology, and this is one of the things before coming on, I did a lot of research on Commvault technology, I've been out of this part of the market for quite some time, and the core technology is super solid. But we needed to innovate further, and shoulder out into different areas, and that's where you see things like Metallic come into play, the acquisition of Hedvig, where we're using our balance sheet, in a way that's very different for the company. This is our first acquisition as a company. And then of course all the new features and functions that we put into SP17, which was just released in the core product. And then lastly, it's around execution. So, simplify, innovate, execute. And when we talk about execution, a lot of that falls on the go-to-market side so this feeds right into some of those leadership changes that we announced this week, and that we announced earlier, bringing folks like Riccardo Di Blasio on, and that's how we think about things. So that's been a structure that's allowed us to do so much change in such a little amount of time. >> So Tom, I'd love to dig into that a little bit, so we've talked of Commvault traditionally has done a decent job of trying to move a little faster, so if you talk about the core product, it's on a 90 day release cycle, it's not the nine to 18 months train that many of us that have been in the industry a long time was like, okay, we got to get on the train, jam everything into it, hope we go and when we get to the end that we actually release something that we're happy with and it's supported and it works. Your last stop with Sanjay was at Puppet. Very different mindset, I'm curious what you learned there, and how that is really permeating the whole industry and what changes need to happen in Commvault to live in this new sass role like Metallic's going to offer, you know, if you're not delivering code, what are you doing. >> Yeah, it's a great question Stu, and the thing is, obviously we're living a different world than what we were 20 years ago, agile methodologies have sped everything up, and people are used to faster release cycles, how do we get new features out to customers in a much more expeditious way. The challenge though, and I'll bet if folks are watching this, the challenge internally is how you do that effectively. So one of the things that we did at Puppet was we had to get better at bringing the technology to the market, end to end across the business, so inside the business. It's not enough for the developers to say, "Okay, code's ready", and just throw it out there. Is the field enabled, is the pricing right, is the packaging right, is the documentation right, is marketing activated, all those elements of it. So again, this is a little bit inside baseball, from a Commvault perspective we're institutionalizing this as one of the core processes that helps us operate the business. I talk a lot about inside, I talk about how sometimes you have to go slow to go fast, and what I mean by that is the cross-functional elements of the business need to get together sooner in the process to make sure that everybody's on the same page, aligned, they know the key dependencies and they know when they can make their deliverables, so that when we're ready to go to market with the new technology, or new product, or a new service pack release, that everybody is ready to go with that because it does nobody any good if the code's ready, you throw it over the wall and then it just kind of falls down because people outside weren't ready. >> But operational simplification, as you describe it, that's really challenging to do, number one. Number two, doing it at a company that's been in business for 20 years, where you have different functions, you probably have some incumbent folks in there. Lot of change, how have you been able to accomplish that in such a short time period, it seems like, one of the things that Stu and I've been hearing is that there was a lot of receptiveness, within the incumbency internally at Commvault, but operational simplification it's no simple feat. >> No, it's really easy when you write it down on a piece of paper, it's hard once you get the humans involved. But the thing is, and this is one of the things that I've noticed at Commvault, it's been tremendously refreshing to me, is that, you know we have about 2,500 people in the organization and if I was going to give a massive generalization, we have 2,500 people that want to do the right thing, and they truly want to do the right thing for our customers. The issue in the past is that they haven't been aligned in all the same direction, or set of directions. So we were a little bit haphazard in certain ways. But people want to do the right thing, and once I started talking about these concepts and once we started implementing them, and now that we're actually seeing results, it's amazing, I have so many people coming up to me saying, "Wow, I didn't really get it at first, but now that we're actually implementing these kind of processes inside the company, it's amazing, the transformation that we're seeing, and we're so glad that we're doing it." >> Can you talk to us about the decisions for the Commvault ventures, that's one of the things that struck me when I saw some of the press releases earlier in the week, Metallic, a Commvault venture. The Hedvig acquisition, a Commvault venture. Some of the conversations that Stu and I have had this week, it's like a startup mentality within Commvault. Talk to us about the strategic decision to go that venture inside Commvault route. >> Yeah sure, absolutely. So obviously, Hedvig is indeed a venture, I mean, via acquiring a company that were a startup. But as we looked at bringing them into the Commvault folds, internally, inside the company, we had some guiding principles that we created straight away. And the number one guiding principle was don't break the business. Meaning, we're not going to come in and overwhelm them with Commvault. Because they created a successful entity amongst themselves, and a great technology that we think fits really well into our portfolio. But we do want to create some degree of separation because, we might be talking to different customers, this I why, I think I saw David Wigglesworth on a little bit earlier, and he's setting up the emerging technologies sales unit because they're going to be taking this to market a little bit different way. The development team is not being merged right into our core development team, they're remaining a unit amongst themselves reporting to Sanjay, right directly to Sanjay. On the Metallic side we did take the startup approach from the beginning, and we said look, it's easy for organizations to say, hey, we want to build this new thing to serve this new part of the market, and we're going to invest resources into it, let's put the plans together and go get it done. But especially for public companies too, it's easy on your 90 day cycles, to all of a sudden say, you know what, we have to rebound, or take those funds that we were going to put there, and move them elsewhere. And we said, no, we can't do this, this is super strategic to us, we have to ring fence it, and we have to let them build this product in a different way. So, I was talking about business readiness before, in terms of the process that we institute, they were actually the first group to implement it within their small team, and it created a great proof point for the rest of the organization to see how it works. >> So Tom, we've had some great conversations with a lot of the new leadership this week, you mentioned we had the conversation with Wiggs, he's starting to hire some of those sales people. We know there's always change going on in an environment, but is Commvault mostly through with the strategic leadership hires and now it's down to the next layer as to things like the overlays in some of the new initiatives, or is there still more work to be done on the structural piece of things? >> Good question Stu. You know, our work is never done. I think it's the same with any organization. I think most of the major parts and pieces are put in place, like where we want them. One of the things that you mentioned earlier, that this is my third tour of duty with Sanjay, and I say one of the really powerful things that he brings to an organization is the ability to build a strong, well-functioning leadership team. And I say well-functioning. And he did it at EMC, he did it at Puppet, and he's doing it here. And now we've got that senior leadership team in place, that is going to be continuing down this path of positive momentum that we've got. >> One of the challenges making through this big move, we said that the team definitely was receptive, we know that they're ready, but clear communication, just without getting into too many proprietary things that you've done, what tips can you have to make sure that an organization of this experience and this size isn't just going to get like, "Oh my God, whiplash, "they're changing management, I don't know where I fit." Or anything like that, how do we make sure that you get everybody pointing towards the true north, and, ready is I think the word we've heard over and over, so making sure that everybody in Commvault is ready to move forward? >> It's hard and it takes a lot of discipline. I do think you need to be as transparent as you can be, with the workforce and with your employees. They need to understand where we're going with this because if it's just a bunch of change for change's sake, that's difficult environment to live in. And we're certainly not that, we have objectives and goals, and we know what we want to get to. Obviously there are strategic elements of it that we can't necessarily discuss all the time, but at least directionally we have to be able to explain the moves that we're making in such a way that makes sense to people. If we believe it, and we've done our diligence, then it should be transferrable and we should be able to make it so that it's clear to everybody on the Commvault team. And we are focused on making that happen. Internally we do a lot of communication. Sanjay writes a lot of blogs internally. Sandy Hamilton writes a lot of blogs, Riccardo is constantly talking to the teams, and that just permeates down. We need to continue to get better at it, it's hard, organizational communications are hard. But we need to lead from the top as well, make sure that as we demonstrate what it means to communicate that all throughout the organization, we're creating that sort of culture. >> In the last few seconds here Tom, I would love to get your perspectives. What's the biggest thing that you're going to take away of the last three days of your first Commvault GO? >> Tom: Wow. >> Too many to count? >> (laughs) It's exciting, I'll say that, very specifically, walking through the Metallic booth and the Hedvig booth is inspiring to me, the amount of traffic going through those two booths, that's exactly-- >> That's probably what that applause is for right now, in fact it is, I see it. >> That is, they invited me over at 4 o'clock, I said I couldn't make it. It's been truly inspiring, and I think people are excited. And for me it's, obviously you want your customers excited, you want your partners to be excited, but for me too, it's just as important to have our employees excited, and that's a major takeaway that I'm bringing from this conference. >> I think we would echo that we've heard a lot of excited folks. Well Tom, thank you for joining Stu and me on the program, we look forward to Commvault GO 2020 already. >> Thank you, thank you very much. >> Excellent. For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE from Commvault GO 19. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Denver, Colorado, it's theCUBE. Covering Commvault GO, 2019. Brought to you Commvault. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Commvault GO '19 from Colorado. Lisa Martin here, with Stu Miniman. Stu and I are pleased to welcome, somebody who knows a lot about Commvault from a couple of different angles, we have Andrew Cochrane, Solutions Architect at Softcat. Andrew, welcome to the program. >> Hi Lisa and Stu, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. >> So you have familiarity, more than familiarity, with Commvault for a long time. You are at Softcat now, you've been there since the beginning part of this year. But you've been working with Commvault on the customer's side for a long time. Let's start there which just giving us your history of what your guys do, what you were doing with Commvault on the customer's side, before we get into the partnership with SoftCat. >> Yes, I started working with Commvault about five years ago. I was working for a large global company, headquarters in the UK, around research and development. We had a lot of different siloed backup technologies. We had big problems with data growth. So I ran a project there, to find a solution that will help us with that in the day that we were doing it, but then also as we grew. As we had big plans to grow, our data we were growing about six or seven average year on year. So we had a major challenge with that data boom. So I started working with Commvault, we selected that as a tool set. And we implemented it and so, were able to reduce our backup down to a much more controlled environment, much more automated, and increase our backup success, and our restore success dramatically from sort of, our SLA was, we didn't have one actually, but it was probably more around 50% up to sort of then 99% success rate. And then, we started that journey and it was definitely a partnership with Commvault then from a customer angle. Because we saw backup as day one, and then it was really how can we progress that, and move from data redaction to data management. So we started looking at what we now refer to as Orchestrate and Activate. So Orchestrate really looking at how can we move workloads, initially it was between sites or it might be for recovery scenarios, and then obviously now the cloud. And then, we started looking at Activate, because we realize we had a challenge of our data's growing more and more. We can protect, which is great. We can move it, but we didn't really know what it was. We knew we had stuff, we know we had a lot of it. But, when you start drilling down beyond the file types, or the sizes of, is it sensitive, is it person identifiable, is there a risk with this data, do we need it, can we delete it, we didn't know. So that's where we started looking at Activate. So that's kind of where my journey start to end as a customer, when we started to get involved with Activate. I sort of left that when we were sort of end of the POC phase, so we knew it could do what we wanted it to do. It's then a matter of scaling that. And then yeah, I joined Softcat beginning of this year to take on a new challenge as a partner. >> All right, so it's great learning you had as the user now you can relate with your customers even more. Just give us a thumbnail sketch of Softcat, and how the Commvault partnership you have, fits into the overall business. >> Yeah, so Softcat, our UK partner, we were around infrastructure services. We're one of the leading UK partners. We cover a broad ranges across hybrid cloud, network, security, digital working space, so we cover a wide gander of different technologies. And Commvault are one of our key vendors that we work with and really one that we work a lot with around the data management piece, and discuss with customers the challenge I had as a customer. And we share that with them and discuss Commvault and how that can help them in their challenges. >> The role that you now have with Softcat what part of your experience with Commvault on the customer side attracted you to shift over to Softcat and partner, and be a partner with Commvault? >> Yeah, yes, I mean my whole career up to this point about 20 years has always been from a customer side, in different organizations, different sectors. And I kind of, I got to the point where I've done a lot different roles, I'd been different infrastructure roles, different end-user compute roles, and I've been on service desks, into the architecture world, and I've kind of had a good round of experience, but I thought I've never experienced the channel of a vendor. So I wanted a new challenge, and Softcat has this Solution Architect role, which is ideal, and I thought actually sitting in the channel, I suppose, still being close to the customer, and being able to understand their challenges and what they're trying to do, because that's been my whole career to that point. But then also, sign to form, relationships with the vendors that were different. So having that closer relationship, that being able to, I suppose amplify almost my voice, 'cause I can having one voice as single customer, but now I see even in 10 months, I think, I'm into triple digits of customers, so I can start to amplify that voice of saying it's not just one, it's all of the customers that I represent and almost starting to be that go-between between the customer and the vendor. And I thought that was really interesting challenges, it's something that I'd be good at hopefully. And it really attracts me to start to sort of sit in that space and start to meet more customers, see their environments, their challenges to see was my experience unique or is everybody having the same sort of challenges and aspirations and start to work together to try and help solution design around those. >> Great so Andrew, I'd love you to bring us inside some of those conversations you're having. >> Yeah. >> We've been having conversations this whole week about the new Commvault, they've got some new products, like Metallic, very much partner driven activity. Which of the product in the Commvault portfolio are resonating most with your customers and what you have heard this week that you want to make sure that you're bringing back to your users? >> Yeah, as far as before this week, the two that really resonated were Complete and Activate. Complete obviously for that almost the stuff that we have to do. We need to protect that data, we need to recover it. So it's always going to been, I think a conversation in any organization. The Activate one is a really interesting discussion point actually, and something which, from my experience before as a customer, I bring into a lot of the conversations I have with my customers. And it's really trying to understand, yes, you might protect it, but do you understand the, like I said the challenge I had as a customer, and quite a lot organizations don't, they don't have the understanding or that ability to automate things, or they might be early on that journey, so it's really, I try and take a slightly difference attack of trying to understand the business. Work with not only, our infrastructure contacts, but also trying to say actually, can we speak to Legal, to Compliance, to Governance, to HR, because data securing are considering things like GDPR and other regulatory bodies. It's not an IT problem, this is the whole organization. Actually we find that Activate is a good way to start to have that discussion with customers. I suppose that was up to this point, and then obviously, now, last couple of days, I think, the one that I'm looking forward to will be Metallic. It's not yet, outside of the US, but I'm waiting for that time because we definitely see a space with SMBs where they want the power of something like Commvault but they also want the simplicity to deploy it and to operate it. And I think Metallic has a really great play there. I've seen it over the last couple of days a few times and I think it's looking real powerful. >> Andrew, I'm curious, you've talked about the products that are resonating with your customers. How many of them are really on the defensive when it comes to data? You know, I'm worry about protecting, I'm worry about government, versus those that are saying okay, I want to be data driven, I'm going through digital transformation, and therefore, understanding and leveraging my data is a key part of that? >> Yeah, I think it's a mix. I've seen so far and it really sort of comes down to the sector they're in. I've find out the sectors that are more governed tend to be more around that security and that protection side. Also like, sort of government, healthcare, any things sort of federal anything like that they seemed to be much more protection oriented. Anything more in the private sector is definitely that transformation, and that's where we have a lot of discussions whether it be digital transmission, a hybrid cloud, it's definitely more data driven. It's interesting seeing those two different perspectives. But I think, at some point, they all start to merge so I think it's just where those sectors are at the moment. >> Where would you say, customers, you said you were working with triple digits. >> Yeah. >> So 30 plus or no, hundred of customers. >> Yeah, hundreds yeah. >> Actually wait. >> It's been a busy time 10 months. (laughs) >> Lisa: That's a lot, that's a lot businesses. Where would you guesstimate they are with respect to readiness for GDPR? I heard some stats recently 70% of organizations are still, aren't ready ready or really fully able to address that. Your take from the UK's stand point. >> Yeah, I think, I'm not sure of the stats from what I've seen, you're right, it's probably high percentage on complying or ready for it. I think the main thing is to address that, and I suppose be aware that you're not ready, and to start on that journey. Because a lot of the regulatory things is about being on that journey, and starting it, and knowing that you got a roadmap to get to, to be, there is no real Nirvana of being compliant it's a constant rolling. And it's a matter of start that journey, identifying the processes, building a virtual team, of like I said, all those different people within the organization, finding out what data you have, but almost that comes after you've almost identified the problem. And the technology will come afterwards to try and help you to go through that. And yeah, I found a lot of the organizations that I've met so far, they're not really ready for that. I think there's still a little bit of a way to go. With all the difference, cause you got GDPR, you've got CCPA, that's going to come-- >> Yeah, yes, yup. >> any day now. >> Which, yeah I don't think a lot of organizations are ready for it. But it's a matter of starting that journey. >> Is that part of the advisory services that Softcat delivers, is to help them understand, there's no recipe for how to get ready, but obviously, you mentioned CCPA, that's probably the tip of the iceberg of more privacy. Laws that are >> Yeah. >> going to be enacted. So looking at the fines that are there, how do you advise customers, I'm sure depends right on how ready or not they are, but what's Softcat's sort of prescription for helping customers, like hey you've got to get, here's the place to start, because GDPR has been around for a while, other things are coming and if you're not compliant and a complying event happens, there's a tremendous risks to the business. >> There is yeah. I mean there's a financial risk, but it's also that impact actually of if you get audited and not compliant, that can have a really detrimental effect especially on a brand. So I mean yeah really we go in and try and first of all identify where an organization is, and that's across the board, we try and identify the problem, where are you, what do we need to do, what are, are there any sort of business challenges that it might have, any objectives, anything that we're trying to do as well as just getting compliant. And then, really it's trying to help formulate a plan. The first place that we start is building a team, of different people, of identifying, even if we do not where it is, by identifying the types of data you'll have, where it might be stored, what we think are the risky points. And starting to work from there really we're trying to formulate a plan of where you need to start actioning things, because some organizations, even if they can't put their finger on it they'll have an idea where it might be. So it's starting to help formulate that plan, formulate the teams that can bring different perspectives, because IT can bring in the technology side, but they might not be, as okay with the legal aspects. So therefore, you need legal, you might need HR, because they'll understand the employee side, you might have customers, so you might need customer relations, to understand who are the customers, what data do keep with them, so you need all these different aspects trying to get them round the table to start to understand almost, what the problem is, within each organization. There's somethings which are common, but organization has this like unique part, they might be more sort of experience in one area, less in others so it's about balancing out that risk of where they need to then focus on. >> So Andrew, I heard at the partner keynote on Monday, they talked about some new initiatives, some new incentives, especially going after new logos, you've only been on the partner side a relatively short time, but curious you're reaction, in your organization, thinking about some of the changes that are happening in the go-to-market from the Commvault standpoint. >> Yeah, yeah, the partner exchange day was a great day. I think a lot of good announcements for the partner world. I mean really there's ways to engage with Commvault better, I think the marketing that's been talked about, is a really a big thing. I think making Commvault stand out from everything else on the market. Showing those brands that we can go talk to other customers about. Sanjay's mentioned it, I think, a couple of times as well is about debunking some myths, about Commvault being complex. That's one that I have to address many times when I go into organizations. So it's great from a partner aspect to see that Commvault gained those things head on really. Because that will help Commvault, but also the partners and also it's customers, because more costumers can enjoy their great technology. So yeah, I think they're doing a lot of great work for the partner on the channel. >> I'm sure your perspective as a long time Commvault customer and now partner are going to be invaluable to the relationship. So we thank you Andrew for coming by theCUBE, and talking with Stu and me about Commvault and Softcat. Lots of exiting things are on the horizon I'm sure. >> Yeah, thank you for having me, it's been great to be at GO, it's been a great event. >> Lisa: It's a great event, isn't it? >> Yeah. >> Excellent, thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE Commvault GO '19.

>> Narrator: Live from Denver, Colorado, it's theCUBE. Covering Commvault Go 2019. Brought to you by Commvault. (upbeat electronic music) >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman. We are covering Commvault Go '19 from Colorado and Stu and I are pleased to welcome a couple of guys back to theCUBE. We've got David Wigglesworth, a VP, now VP of Global Sales and Emerging Technologies at Commvault for what, a couple weeks now David? >> About a month and five days. >> About a month, and look who's back, it's Don Foster, VP of Storage Solutions, >> Great to be back. from the Keynote stage, welcome back Don. >> Thank you very much. >> Don, and we appreciate you bringing your own personal makeup artist, Sanjay Merchandandi, >> Yeah. >> A man of many skills. >> Indeed. (laughing) >> He really is. So if this whole, like, CEO thing doesn't work, he's clearly got a career in, you know, touch-up makeup. >> In makeup. >> Yeah, all right, so Wigs we'll start with you, you've got a cool nickname, so I got to use it. You've been here for about a month or so. This is a new Commvault. We've heard a lot in the last two days. A lot of news, a lot of leadership changes, obviously, go-to-market changes, new partner offerings, lots of stuff. Tell us first, before we dig in, what attracted you to Commvault? >> That's a pretty easy question to answer, it's the leadership. So, obviously I'm very familiar with Commvault. I've competed with them in my past career. Always been a very formidable competitor. When you walked into an account in my previous life and they said they had Commvault, you usually kind-of wiped your brow, and thought 'Oh okay, I've got to find something else here to talk about' but in all seriousness, for me it was, you know, when I first noticed in the News that Sanjay had come onboard. That peaked my interest, because obviously I knew Sanjay in my previous life at EMC and at VMware. And then when I watched Ricardo join the company, I was like, okay, this is something I really need to dig into. And so when I had the opportunity to meet with them and understand the direction of where they want to take the company, which was also already just a phenomenal IT organization, just a pillar in the IT community, with what the founders were able to do in relatively short amount of time. I was really excited to be able to come over and be a part of it. >> Wigs, you've got a emerging tech under your purview, tell us a little bit about what that's going to mean in your role. >> Right now it means I'm head big, right? So, by now, everyone's heard of the acquisition that was made. That was the other thing also that really interested me, was that technology because I really think that's where the market is going and I just felt like it was a great addition to the Commvault family of products. But it's a different technology. It's calling on a different set of folks with inside of an account and it's primarily an enterprise play. It can be a go-down-market a little bit, and enterprise's is kind of where I spent the last several years of my career, the last 20 or so (laughs) and so what we've decided to do is, because it's so different, we've decided for the time being, that we were going to create a special aid organization globally to go sell that solution so that our existing core sellers can focus on our existing set of products, right? That we can be a specialist organization that can help them with their customers, selling all of the additional emerging tech, right? And so, here at the show, we've obviously spent time talking about Hedvig. Metallic is another new technology for us. Now Metallic is going to handled differently, but as we continue to grow our emerging technologies from the traditional core Commvault family of products, that's what I'm going to be focused on. So it'll begin with Hedvig. >> So for the role that you're in now, you said about a month or so, are you bringing in a brand-new sales overlay team? Are you guys hiring like crazy or are some of the Commvault OG sales-guys-or-girls shifting up, we'll say? >> For the most part, we're bringing in new talent. We're looking for people that have a broad spectrum of the experience, right. Obviously someone with strong storage background, but also people that know virtualization code, people that understand containers. Those skillsets are really important to us. And so we're busy building out both an America sales team and also building out a Nemea sales team. And then my partner, I call him my partner-in-crime, Ediz. Ediz is building out our SE organization for the same two theaters. We'll start in those two theaters and then once we get the product fully integrated, which is part of what this guy is doing, once we get the product fully integrated, then I think you'll see us start to move into some other theaters. But right now we're going to focus on those. So yes, we're hiring. Right now my LinkedIn says, "David Wigglesworth, we're hiring." >> I think I saw that actually (laughing). >> So Don, we got to dig into some of the technology with you and Avinash yesterday. >> Absolutely. >> So we're now getting most of the way through the conference, bring us inside some of the conversations you're having. I know it was one of the biggest question, we had coming in was: 'All right The Hedvig that we knew, what's going to change, how does that fit?' Blurring the lines between primary and secondary and all those discussions we had with Sanjay. So take us to how people, are they kind of getting it at this point? And we know it's a journey for the integration and where it will ultimately end. >> Here's the real interesting thing, is probably in the first, I don't know, maybe 24 hours of having conversations with people from partner exchange all the way through to basically day one of actual Commvault Go, I probably had about four, maybe five if you count one of the service providers from Customers' Partners, come up and say, "Okay look, we looked at this tech about 18, 12 months ago and it was top of our list for what we wanted to do for building out this initiative, but there was a little bit too much risk." Going okay, do we really want to invest that much on a company that is maybe not the largest, most, I wouldn't want to say, reputable, but substantial in the marketplace. Will they be there in the future? And they're like, "Now that we know you've legitimized that business "and you want to keep that technology going forward, "this is fantastic. "We totally want to go and take a re-look back at this "and see how we can apply "that back into our infrastructure." So that's a great feedback to hear, and only serves as validation that when we look at the tech and say "This is good stuff," that we know it's good stuff and then of course the next piece is always, "All right, so now when can I start using this for Commvault and?" >> Right. >> That's when we start getting into the conversations of all right, we've got some integration work to do, the partners are asking when they can start to get access to sell it and again, we've got some work to do just to industrialize what we're doing and make the experience similar and then we'll start to roll it out in a considered fashion. >> I'm curious about the education piece. One of the customers that was onstage this morning, Sonic Healthcare, one of the things he said, on main stage and when he stopped by theCUBE a couple of hours ago, was, he said: "I wouldn't be in my job," and he runs disaster recovery and business continuity for Sonic Healthcare, "I wouldn't be in my job without Commvault's support." And I really appreciated and respected how he talked about some of the failures that they had. I always think failure is a good F-word if you leverage it in that way, (agreement) failure can mean success, if you learn from it. But the support organization and the training he talked about have been instrumental. Talk to us, guys, about how you're going to be partnering together to not just enable the big partners for those large enterprise accounts but maybe even the new sales-guys-and-girls that are coming, David, to your team to help everybody really understand how best to delivery a really stellar customer experience with something as exciting now as Hedvig is. >> You want to start, since you've been working on the integration. >> Yes, absolutely. First and foremost, I've been working with Avinash and his brother, Srinivas, and a lot of their engineering team. You really start to lock in things that are repeatable and scalable in nature, right? So that if we are going to open this up to more people, we do need to have repeatable nature of the building blocks for different use cases. So there's some core work we're doing on outlining, positioning, criteria, success, what the outcome needs to be, how that ties back in to hardware. Making sure as well that we understand how the messaging really does resonate and make sure that we're following and being focused on what our core targets are. Because a solution like what Hedvig offers, you can quickly start talking about a lot of different things that could be all things to many people, and we know that that's probably the worst decision to make, because you go super wide and don't go very deep at all and you end up losing the value prop. So identifying what the real core use cases are, getting deep in how it works, one with what the structure of it looks like, making it repeatable, that's the first and foremost thing, I think, for how we can help both Ediz and Wigs' sales team, and on the support side, doing very similar things but also doing some of the programmatic work of the integration and the experience. I talk about experience, like the sending of logs, the things that Matthew Magby from Sonic Healthcare was talking about how we really helped him. We want that same level of experience tied into where the software storage platform works as well. So there's some work to be done there. But as we get it done, the enablement on the support side, as you know, we deal with storage everyday anyway, so it's not like it's a big leap, but we do have to bring them into the mix of how the actual technology works, where it breaks, why it breaks, and those are all the things that we're really focused on in the next 90 days. >> Yeah, I think the real key for me as we talk to customers and also employees is I want them all to have the same experience with the new Hedvig solution that they experience with Commvault, right? And that goes from training our employees, really getting our SEs up to speed, so they can have a meaningful conversation to be able to get a customer to say, "Yeah, I think I'd like to speak with the Special Aid team. "Please have them give me a call." And also on the enablement for the clients, and having the customer understand that you can dial to 1-800 number for support, you can talk to somebody that can lead you down a path and give you the same quality of support you've been used to whether you're calling about a Hedvig solution or whether you're calling about a Commvault solution. >> Yeah, we talked about it a little yesterday, but the scale of the offering is a little bit different. >> It is. >> And therefore, that has some challenges on the support. And something that I'm sure Commvault is going to work on making that, it's not identical for every customer but a little bit more repeatable to be able to scale out that offering. >> I would agree, I would agree. The hardest thing to do is when you have a product that has so much functionality as Hedvig is to not lose focus and try to talk way too broad. What you've really got to do is, you've got to drill down with the client try to understand where their pinpoints are and because, quite frankly, the Hedvig product can do a lot of things. >> Don: Yeah, it can. >> Who's the ideal target customers, we talked about the theaters in which you're going to be launching first. Enterprise, we talked about that. Commvault has a significant presence in the Fortune 500, I think I read about three quarters of Commvault's revenue today comes from the Fortune 500, and Stu was saying yesterday about 80% of the revenue comes from the channel. So we look at Hedvig and the enterprise for a second, customers that are new to Commvault, those existing enterprise customers, GTM both? >> Yeah, I would say, the primary focus is going to be calling on the existent customer set. It's much easier to have a conversation with someone who knows who you are, even though you may be selling a new solution, at least they know who you are and they have a positive experience with us. So that, number one, we're going to focus on our probably our top 300 global accounts to start, as well as our top enterprise accounts. So there's probably, I would say, in the two theaters I mentioned earlier, there's probably about 35 hundred accounts that we're really going to focus on, and really try to make sure that we get in front of as many as we can and tell the story. I think that's where we have to start. Now, will there be greenfield opportunities? Yeah, I think quite frankly, that the Hedvig offering is different enough that it will enable us to go call on some of accounts that aren't doing business with Commvault today, maybe doing business with some of our competitors. So hopefully we can use that to actually win more traditional Commvault business. That's the plan. >> And the reason the enterprise really makes sense, the global accounts, is most larger companies have figured out how try solve the CapEx problem, right? >> David: Yeah. >> They've figured out just the economies of scale and how they grow and move, they can kind of handle that. What really still becomes a challenging piece is the operational efficiency. So, can I get the right solution at the right cost, but do it in a way that I'm actually making things more simplified? I'm not actually exploding more complexity into my environment. That's really where the Commvault data management platform and the Hedvig solution together really make a really solid story. >> All right, so Wigs, Don's team's really got their work cut out for them with all the integration work and know they've got a cadence and a roadmap. For you, obviously, new logos, there's got to be revenue goals. What are some of the key KPIs to measure how this becomes a successful acquisition? >> Well if my CEO is standing close by, he may be in earshot of this, right now it's trying to drive as much revenue as we can. But we also have to realize that we also have to build a pipeline, right? So right now my main focus here is I got to get a team in place that can go articulate the value of this solution to a client, right, number one, both technically and then working with Ediz to get the SE team in place, so that's number one. Number two, while we're doing that, we need to build a pipeline, right? When you make an investment, as you guys know, you're expected to start getting a return on that pretty quickly. And, it's nice, we inherited some nice pipeline with the acquisition. But with opportunity comes responsibility and so we've got to build that pipeline up and really get out in front of customers and find some opportunities that we can not only try to finish for this second half so we can hit all of our financial metrics, but really build pipeline for FY21, for us which starts in April. >> So the voice of the customer is, really can be really powerful. We've heard from a number of Commvault customers on our program yesterday, today on main stage. Is there a plan, Wigs, from your perspective, to get customers into some sort of data so that you have proof in the pudding to show those large enterprises and those theaters to help build that pipeline. Look at someone who's been an existing Commvault customer for five, 10 years or so, here's the, I don't want to say migration path, but maybe upgrade path to expand footprint in there. Here's how we did it, here's why this was ideal for this customer. Plans to get those early adopters to help you dial up the pipeline? >> So have you been reading my 'Go to market strategy' (laughing) 'cause you kind of you basically just read it. So yes, listen we are inheriting some nice accounts with Hedvig. They have some nice logos out there which is really good. And it's a good foundation for us to build upon. But we're very fortunate in that our core sellers have some really good relationships with some pretty large customers really in all different industries. And so, what we're doing right now is we're trying to identify probably about 10 accounts that make sense. That are really strong partners. They don't have to necessarily be really big customers, but just really strong partners that want to work together with us. And exactly what you just said, let's get in front of them, let's give them an opportunity to play with the technology and have them help us figure out, we think we have a pretty good idea what the go-to-marketing messaging should be for our existing customer base but certainly don't assume that we know everything. So have them help us build that strategy. So that is absolutely the plan. >> We've been hearing a lot about the last couple of days, of just, the openness of Commvault. Whether it's, I really thought it was cool with Metallic that the telemetry that partners can get to help customers, maybe even before a customer knows of an issue or an opportunity, but this telemetry, this 'let's learn from our customers,' couldn't agree as a marketer with you more about, we might think we have a great tagline, great messaging, but it's the users who need to validate that. What I'm hearing a lot over the last day and a half is how receptive Commvault is. We're listening to our customers, whether it's existing and comeback customers that Sanjay's team are dealing with, or even through partners. That message is loud and clear, and that's pretty important. >> Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I'll be honest with you, what's it's also been able to give us an opportunity to do is where we've had some relationships, quite frankly, that maybe we need to work a little harder on. Hedvig has given us that opportunity to kind of start those conversations as well. I think there's a lot of value, both on the existing opportunities as well as growing the business overall. >> Guys, nothing short of a lot of work ahead. But, pretty exciting stuff. We thank you both. Wigs, welcome again to Commvault. >> Thank you. >> Can't wait for next year. Going to bring some cool customers on the program. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Looking forward. The buzz is so amazing this year. So many customers have said, "I know you weren't here last year, but wow," and that's what they've said. I can't wait to see what this is going to be like next year. Thank you for having us on here. >> You've got to come back. >> Absolutely we will. >> Yeah? >> Yeah. >> All right, guys, thank you for joining Stu and I. >> Thank you both very much. >> Thank you. >> For Stu Miniman, I am Lisa Martin, and you're watching theCUBE from Commvault Go '19. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Denver, Colorado. It's theCUBE, covering Commvault GO 2019. Brought to you by Commvault. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE. Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, we are at Commvault GO '19 in Colorado. Stu and I are pleased to welcome a couple of guests joining us this next segment we have Kevin Haro, Infrastructure from Quad, and Matt Tyrer, Senior Manager, Solutions Marketing from Commvault. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. >> Oh, it's great to finally be here! >> Yeah, exciting stuff in the last couple days. So Kevin, let's start with you. Give our audience an understanding of Quad, what kind of business you're in, what services and products you deliver. >> Quad is first and foremost a printer so we do large-scale, long-run printing. We've got locations across the country and Latin America and Europe. So from a data perspective we have our own internal apps and stuff, obviously, but for the most part our large chunks of data come straight from our customers, so. >> Lisa: And what kind of customers are we talking about? >> Customers, magazines, books, anything of that nature. Anybody who needs long-run signs, we do it all, packaging. >> Okay, so talk to us about kind of your role and from a data perspective how it's exploding. (Kevin & Matt laugh) >> It seems to be growing every day, that's true. So the data that comes in from our customers we treat it, we improve it, we add to it and then we have to get it back to them, make sure everything's okay, and then it goes to the printers and then it needs to be saved. So you can imagine that piles up pretty quickly. >> Now is it just that the actual images themselves are getting bigger? Like the content that's coming towards? Or is it also that your customer base is growing and expanding too? So it's the individual customers are getting bigger but also you're getting bigger as well from a Quad perspective. >> Yes, both, all three actually. So you can imagine just the amount of images that go into a catalog and how every single one of those came in. Even though it might be an inch or two big on your page it came in full-res, so it adds up quick. >> All right, Kevin why don't you walk us through what led you down the path to Commvault. If you can give us a little bit of the before, and the process that led to choosing Commvault. >> The initial reason we came into Commvault was actually partially backup related, but we were actually in the middle of a site lifecycle so we were looking to upgrade the hardware at 12 different sites and we wanted to switch the hypervisors at those sites and Commvault provided us the means to do that quickly and easily without us having to rebuild all of those systems. So that was our first introduction to it. That went very well for us. We're doing another round coming up here very soon. And so we've done all that, and now actually we're taking a step back and actually going with a Commvault backup solution itself. >> And what was the hypervisor before and now? >> Those were VMware to HyperView. >> Okay, yeah, Matt, maybe walk us through is that a typical use case that you see out there? Migrations are often one of the most challenging things for infrastructure people. We used to say it was the four-letter word when you're told to migrate something. (Matt laughs) But yeah, take us inside. >> Well I mean, you see, it doesn't have to be just a hypervisor to hypervisor migration. You see it just every day with people shifting workloads into the cloud. And in this case here, it's not a same-for-same movement necessarily. So it could be VMware on one site like what you guys were doing, changing into HyperV. Or it could be simply moving from VMware maybe on-premises to native AMIs in AWS. So you're seeing a lot of people kind of decoupling from that hypervisor layer or at least abstracting it, because it's more about the data itself, and less where the data happens to reside. So I think that's going to continue to be something that we see more and more of, as people continue to move into that multiple cloud environment. Did you guys also move in to the cloud too, as part of this? Or this is just in on-prem? >> Kevin: We have not made a huge on-cloud investment at this point in time. But the story that we've been hearing on the cloud the multicloud and the avoiding the lock-in holds true for us, just at the hypervisor level. We don't want to be kept to decisions that were made five, 10 years ago just because it's hard to get off of a specific hypervisor or piece of software. >> Matt: Yeah. >> So it gives us the flexibility to do what we're looking to do. >> So we talked a little bit about the proliferation of data, both from the actual images and the files getting larger and larger and larger, then growth in the Quad customer base. Talk to us about what you were doing to backup data before because you were using somebody else before you decided to make the move over to Commvault. >> We have been using somebody else. We've actually been using four somebody elses. >> Lisa: Can you tell us who those four somebody elses are? >> Our primary one's were EMC, but aside from that, in smaller offices we had other solutions as well. So we've heard the complexity of Commvault is an issue and we were afraid of it as well but that complexity really doesn't stand up to teaching someone how to restore off of four potentially different systems and four different architectures in general. So getting everything under that one pane of glass is an end goal for sure. >> Was it really the compelling event? or was there maybe an issue like we were hearing on stage this morning with one of the Commvault customers saying "Hey, we had a big failure"? Was there a compelling event or was it, we've got four different solutions in here. We need that single pane of glass 'cause the data has so much value but if we can't see it. >> Kevin: It's really the single pane of glass. I mean, in order to maintain that interconnected web of backups we actually had to home grow our own system just to be able to look up where the backup was to begin with. And while that works, it's effective, it's an extra step that has to be taken in the middle of a recovery process. >> Well, Matt, you started your time at Commvault in the field so bring us a little bit, some of the competitive landscape that you see out there. Consolidating onto a single vendor, obviously, is something we see all the time when there's M&A activity or you've got branch offices and the like. >> Yeah, I mean, it's certainly not uncommon to come across customers in Quad's situation where they've got one product over here one product over there. And I think a lot of it stems from IT was in such a reactive mode for so long that it's almost trying to play catch up. It's like, well we have to address protecting the virtual machines. Okay, we'll draw up a solution in for that. We have to protect the data at the remote site. Well, I can't get my enterprise solution there so I'll drop another band-aid solution in out there. And we're finally getting to that maturity where people are able to go back and re-examine some of those infrastructure decisions made five, 10 years ago and starting to rectify it by being able to bring that data together and consolidate. And so that's kind of what I've always liked about from a Commvault perspective, is that comprehensive coverage Pretty much whatever it is, wherever it is you can get that single pane of glass. And there's a lot of stuff that we can do and data environments are certainly not getting less complex (laughs). >> Well, talk to us about the complexity, Kevin, 'cause at all the shows that we go to complexity is always a topic that we hear for every technology and every customer is looking to reduce complexity, increase agility, all the buzz words right, flexibility, simplicity. You said, very candidly, that when you were looking at the hypervisor switch and when it came time to evaluate the backup solutions, you were concerned about Commvault's complexity. We've heard a lot in the last day and a half about simplicity, reduced complexity. How have you found this implementation in terms of the previous complexity concerns and do you have that single pane of glass that you were looking for? >> Kevin: The complexity, the problem didn't really occur to us. I mean, we were walked through by our vendor very nicely. They got us through, they got us our SOP's built. We've been able to roll it out successfully. We started with some of our hardest sites after that migration product. We started with the ones that were behind double nets and are actually at customer locations behind fire walls we don't own. The ones that have been a problem for us for years to secure those backups and those were where we started and that's where we've actually had some pretty decent success. I mean there is obviously a lot of settings and stuff to be worked through and to have a guide sit there and walk us through and make sure we're getting the backup and the retention that we need. At the end of the day, we've got the backups going and they're working well. >> And that's kind of what we were striving to do when we introduced the Commvault command center was for the customers that don't need to go to that level of detail provide a much more streamlined interface with a lot of the heavy automation elements in it. So customers that don't need those deep controls and customizations can work within that command center. But the ones that do, and actually what's entertaining is a lot of our long-term customers prefer working in that deeper complexity. Because it's like "Oh, I like how I can tune it like this "or I can flip it like that." So it's nice that our customers have the option of working where they feel most comfortable. >> And Matt, I'd love to get your perspective you've been with Commvault for 12 years. >> Matt: Almost, yeah. >> We feel like the last day and a half and we'll say Sanjay really kicked this off yesterday by saying #newCommvault. (Matt laughs) And it does feel like that with the changes to the leadership, the changes to the partner organization and partner programs, the focus on mid market with Metallic, with the Hedvig acquisition. Your perspective on being at Commvault for quite a long time, how do you see the company now? >> It's refreshing when you've been with a company for a long time just to see how we're able to shift how we're talking about ourselves, and it's almost like a brand new level of confidence. You see the smash of color everywhere and just the way that we talk about the solutions, the way we talk about the company as well. It's been a lot of change going on, but it's been exciting to kind of see that next evolution of the company in terms of taking that company to the next step and see what the future holds. So I've been really excited to see all of these changes over the past year and continue to see. (laughs) >> So Kevin you've walked us through from the migration that you did initially to the solutions that you're using today. Where are you looking forward for what you might use with Commvault? And any of the new things that were announced this week catch your eye that you might want to be looking into further when you get back to the office? >> Obviously Kubernetes has been floating around for a while so there's solutions here that we've been looking at, but we really want to get our fundamental backup and retention system to the point where it is no longer consuming whole days of FTEs. So where there's a report that comes out, we can check it, we know that it's good. We don't have to babysit that product, and we can get on to some other larger projects, things of that nature. We can get on to worrying about some of the bigger issues making sure that we're ready for a cyber event, things of that nature. >> All right, you did mention Kubernetes. Where are you as a company with that? Data protection, obviously you need to-- >> Matt: I knew you were going to go there (laughs) >> Worry about, even multicloud. I'll be at KubeCon, maybe see you there. (laughs) >> The first ones have just been rolled out recently they're in, they're up, that's about where that is. >> Matt: Just starting, baby steps. >> Baby steps, yes. But we'd like to do the baby steps correctly so technologies that make sense. >> That's great that you're kind of shifting or it looks like anyway to getting a lot more automated in terms of what you're doing within the Commvault. I met with or I was manning a customer panel yesterday with just a bunch of customers sharing what they were doing from moving towards that self-driving backup or at least backup or managing by exception where the less hands-on you can be, the more time that you've got back into your day to focus on other projects, so yeah. >> Exactly. So yeah, I mean, we're at a point right now where we are obviously switching, so we want to look ahead and make sure that we're set and ready to go for the future. >> So Kevin, last question for you, in the last nine months there's been some pretty big changes at Commvault the new leadership, new focus on routes to market, how do you internalize that, in terms of this direction, this Commvault 2.0, this new Commvault as an existing customer? >> Well, we're a new customer to them so to see the energy that's coming at us is refreshing. To see them placed in the upper quadrants obviously helps sell the product to us for management to back our decisions up, so in general the whole range seems to be getting met and we're not having to say this does everything except X, Y, and Z. >> Excellent, well, Kevin, Matt, thank you for joining Stu and me on the program this afternoon at GO we appreciate your time. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for having us. >> Lisa: Our pleasure >> Take care >> For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE from Commvault GO '19 (upbeat music)