(upbeat music) >> Welcome to this special cloud virtual event, theCUBE on cloud. This is our continuing editorial series of the most important stories in cloud. We're going to explore the cutting edge most relevant technologies and companies that will impact business and society. We have special guests from Jeff Barr, Michael Liebow, Jerry Chen, Ben Haynes, Michael skulk, Mike Feinstein from AWS all today are presenting the top startups in the AWS ecosystem. This is the AWS showcase of startups. I'm showing with Dave Vellante. Dave great to see you. >> Hey John. Great to be here. Thanks for having me. >> So awesome day today. We're going to feature a 10 grade companies amplitude, auto grid, big ID, cordial Dremio Kong, multicloud, Reltio stardog wire wheel, companies that we've talked to. We've researched. And they're going to present today from 10 for the rest of the day. What's your thoughts? >> Well, John, a lot of these companies were just sort of last decade, they really, were keyer kicker mode, experimentation mode. Now they're well on their way to hitting escape velocity which is very exciting. And they're hitting tens of millions dollars of ARR, many are planning IPO's and it's just it's really great to see what the cloud has enabled and we're going to dig into that very deeply today. So I'm super excited. >> Before we jump into the keynote (mumbles) our non Huff from AWS up on stage Jeremy is the brains behind this program that we're doing. We're going to do this quarterly. Jeremy great to see you, you're in the global startups program at AWS. Your job is to keep the crops growing, keep the startups going and keep the flow of innovation. Thanks for joining us. >> Yeah. Made it to startup showcase day. I'm super excited. And as you mentioned my team the global startup program team, we kind of provide white glove service for VC backed startups and help them with go to market activities. Co-selling with AWS and we've been looking for ways to highlight all the great work they're doing and partnering with you guys has been tremendous. You guys really know how to bring their stories to life. So super excited about all the partner sessions today. >> Well, I really appreciate the vision and working with Amazon this is like truly a bar raiser from theCUBE virtual perspective, using the virtual we can get more content, more flow and great to have you on and bring that the top hot startups around data, data ops. Certainly the most important story in tech is cloud scale with data. You you can't look around and seeing more innovation happening. So I really appreciate the work. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, and don't forget, we're making this a quarterly series. So the next one we've already been working on it. The next one is Wednesday, June 16th. So mark your calendars, but super excited to continue doing these showcases with you guys in the future. >> Thanks for coming on Jeremy. I really appreciate it,. Dave so I want to just quick quickly before we get Jeff up here, Jeff Barr who's a luminary guests for us this week who has been in the industry has been there from the beginning of AWS the role of data, and what's happened in cloud. And we've been watching the evolution of Amazon web services from the beginning, from the startup market to dominate in the enterprise. If you look at the top 10 enterprise companies Amazon wasn't on that list in 2010 they weren't even bringing the top 10 Andy Jassy's keynote at reinvent this past year. Highlighted that fact, I think they were number five or four as vendor in just AWS. So interesting to see that you've been reporting and doing a lot of analysis on the role of data. What's your analysis for these startups and as businesses need to embrace the new technologies and be on the right side of history not part of that old guard, incumbent failed model. >> Well, I think again, if you look back on the early days of cloud, it was really about storage and networking and compute infrastructure. And then we collected all this data and now you're seeing the next generation of innovation and value. We're going to talk to Michael Liebow about this is really if you look at all the value points in the leavers, it's all around data and data is going through a massive change in the way that we think about it, that we talk about it. And you hear that a lot. Obviously you talk about the volumes, the giant volumes but there's something else going on as AWS brings the cloud to the edge. And of course it looks at the data centers, just another edge device, data is getting highly decentralized. And what we're seeing is data getting into the hands of business owners and data product builders. I think we're going to see a new parlance emerge and that's where you're seeing the competitive advantage. And if you look at all the real winners these days in the marketplace especially in the digital with COVID, it all comes back to the data. And we're going to talk about that a lot today. >> One of the things that's coming up in all of our cube interviews, certainly we've seen, I mean we've had a great observation space across all the ecosystems, but the clear thing that's coming out of COVID is speed, agility, scale, and data. If you don't have that data you are going to be a non-player. And I think I heard some industry people talking about the future of how the stock market's going to work and that if you're not truly in market with an AI or machine learning data value play you probably will be shorted on the stock market or delisted. I think people are looking at that as a table stakes competitive advantage item, where if you don't have some sort of data competitive strategy you're going to be either delisted or sold short. And that's, I don't think delisted but the point is this table-stakes Dave. >> Well, I think too, I think the whole language the lingua franca of data is changing. We talk about data as an asset all the time, but you think about it now, what do we do with assets? We protect it, we hide it. And we kind of we don't share it. But then on the other hand, everybody talks about sharing the data and that is a huge trend in the marketplace. And so I think that everybody is really starting to rethink the whole concept of data, what it is, its value and how we think about it, talk about it, share it make it accessible, and at the same time, protect it and make it governed. And I think you're seeing, computational governance and automation really hidden. Couldn't do this without the cloud. I mean, that's the bottom line. >> Well, I'm super excited to have Jeff Barr here from AWS as our special keynote guests. I've been following Jeff's career for a long, long time. He's a luminaries, he's a technical, he's in the industry. He's part of the community, he's been there from the beginning AWS just celebrate its 15th birthday as he was blogging hard. He's been a hardcore blogger. I think Jeff, you had one of the original ping service. If I remember correctly, you were part of the web services foundational kind of present at creation. No better guests to have you Jeff thanks for coming up on our stage. >> John and Dave really happy to be here. >> So I got to ask you, you've been blogging hard for the past decade or so, going hard and your job has evolved from blogging about what's new with Amazon. A couple of building blocks a few services to last reinvent them. You must have put out I don't know how many blog posts did you put out last year at every event? I mean, it must have been a zillion. >> Not quite a zillion. I think I personally wrote somewhere between 20 and 25 including quite a few that I did in the month or so run up to reinvent and it's always intense, but it's always really, really fun. >> So I've got to ask you in the past couple of years, I mean I quoted Andy Jassy's keynote where we highlight in 2010 Amazon wasn't even on the top 10 enterprise players. Now in the top five, you've seen the evolution. What is the big takeaway from your standpoint as you look at the enterprise going from Amazon really dominating the start of a year startups today, you're in the cloud, you're born in the cloud. There's advantage to that. Now enterprises are kind of being reborn in the cloud at the same time, they're building these new use cases rejuvenating themselves and having innovation strategy. What's your takeaway? >> So I love to work with our customers and one of the things that I hear over and over again and especially the last year or two is really the value that they're placing on building a workforce that has really strong cloud skills. They're investing in education. They're focusing on this neat phrase that I learned in Australia called upskilling and saying let's take our set of employees and improve their skill base. I hear companies really saying we're going to go cloud first. We're going to be cloud native. We're going to really embrace it, adopt the full set of cloud services and APIs. And I also see that they're really looking at cloud as part of often a bigger picture. They often use the phrase digital transformation, in Amazon terms we'd say they're thinking big. They're really looking beyond where they are and who they are to what they could be and what they could grow into. Really putting a lot of energy and creativity into thinking forward in that way. >> I wonder Jeff, if you could talk about sort of how people are thinking about the future of cloud if you look at where the spending action is obviously you see it in cloud computing. We've seen that as the move to digital, serverless Lambda is huge. If you look at the data it's off the charts, machine learning and AI also up there containers and of course, automation, AWS leads in all of those. And they portend a different sort of programming model a different way of thinking about how to deploy workloads and applications maybe different than the early days of cloud. What's driving that generally and I'm interested in serverless specifically. And how do you see the next several years folding out? >> Well, they always say that the future is the hardest thing to predict but when I talked to our enterprise customers the two really big things that I see is there's this focus that says we need to really, we're not simply like hosting the website or running the MRP. I'm working with one customer in particular where they say, well, we're going to start on the factory floor all the way up to the boardroom effectively from IOT and sensors on the factory floor to feed all the data into machine learning. So they understand that the factory is running really well to actually doing planning and inventory maintenance to putting it on the website to drive the analytics, to then saying, okay, well how do we know that we're building the right product mix? How do we know that we're getting it out through the right channels? How are our customers doing? So they're really saying there's so many different services available to us in the cloud and they're relatively easy and straightforward to deploy. They really don't think in the old days as we talked about earlier that the old days where these multi-year planning and deployment cycles, now it's much more straightforward. It's like let's see what we can do today. And this week and this month, and from idea to some initial results is a much, much shorter turnaround. So they can iterate a lot more quickly which is just always known to produce better results. >> Well, Jeff and the spirit of the 15th birthday of AWS a lot of services have been built from the original three. I believe it was the core building blocks and there's been a lot of history and it's kind of like there was a key decoupling of compute from storage, those innovations what's the most important architectural change if any has happened or built upon those building blocks with AWS that you could share with companies out there as many people are coming into the cloud not just lifting and shifting and having that innovation but really building cloud native and now hybrid full cloud operations, day two operations. However you want to look at it. That's a big thing. What architecturally has changed that's been innovative from those original building blocks? >> Well, I think that the basic architecture has proven to be very, very resilient. When I wrote about the 15 year birthday of Amazon S3 a couple of weeks ago one thing that I thought was really incredible was the fact that the same APIs that you could have used 15 years ago they all still work. The put, the get, the list, the delete, the permissions management, every last one of those were chosen with extreme care. And so they all still work. So one of the things you think about when you put APIs out there is in Amazon terms we always talk about going through a one-way door and a one way door says, once you do it you're committed for the indefinite future. And so you we're very happy to do that but we take those steps with extreme care. And so those basic building blocks so the original S3 APIs, the original EC2 APIs and the model, all those things really worked. But now they're running at this just insane scale. One thing that blows me away I routinely hear my colleagues talking about petabytes and exabytes, and we throw around trillions and quadrillions like they're pennies. It's kind of amazing. Sometimes when you hear the scale of requests per day or request per month, and the orders of magnitude are you can't map them back to reality anymore. They're simply like literally astronomical. >> If I can just jump in real quick Dave before you ask Jeff, I was watching the Jeff Bezos interview in 1999 that's been going around on LinkedIn in a 60 minutes interview. The interviewer says you are reporting that you can store a gigabyte of customer data from all their purchases. What are you going to do with that? He basically nailed the answer. This is in 99. We're going to use that data to create, that was only a gig. >> Well one of the things that is interesting to me guys, is if you look at again, the early days of cloud, of course I always talked about that in small companies like ours John could have now access to information technology that only big companies could get access to. And now you've seen we just going to talk about it today. All these startups rise up and reach viability. But at the same time, Jeff you've seen big companies get the aha moment on cloud and competition drives urgency and that drives innovation. And so now you see everybody is doing cloud, it's a mandate. And so the expectation is a lot more innovation, experimentation and speed from all ends. It's really exciting to see. >> I know this sounds hackneyed and overused but it really, really still feels just like day one. We're 15 plus years into this. I still wake up every morning, like, wow what is the coolest thing that I'm going to get to learn about and write about today? We have the most amazing customers, one of the things that is great when you're so well connected to your customers, they keep telling you about their dreams, their aspirations, their use cases. And we can just take that and say we can actually build awesome things to help you address those use cases from the ground on up, from building custom hardware things like the nitro system, the graviton to the machine learning inferencing and training chips where we have such insight into customer use cases because we have these awesome customers that we can make these incredible pieces of hardware and software to really address those use cases. >> I'm glad you brought that up. This is another big change, right? You're getting the early days of cloud like, oh, Amazon they're just using off the shelf components. They're not buying these big refrigerator sized disc drives. And now you're developing all this custom Silicon and vertical integration in certain aspects of your business. And that's because workload is demanding. You've got to get more specialized in a lot of cases. >> Indeed they do. And if you watch Peter DeSantis' keynote at re-invent he talked about the fact that we're researching ways to make better cement that actually produces less carbon dioxide. So we're now literally at the from the ground on up level of construction. >> Jeff, I want to get a question from the crowd here. We got, (mumbles) who's a good friend of theCUBE cloud Arate from the beginning. He asked you, he wants to know if you'd like to share Amazon's edge aspirations. He says, he goes, I mean, roadmaps. I go, first of all, he's not going to talk about the roadmaps, but what can you share? I mean, obviously the edge is key. Outpost has been all in the news. You obviously at CloudOps is not a boundary. It's a distributed network. What's your response to-- >> Well, the funny thing is we don't generally have technology roadmaps inside the company. The roadmap is always listen really well to customers not just where they are, but the customers are just so great at saying, this is where we'd like to go. And when we hear edge, the customers don't generally come to us and say edge, they say we need as low latency as possible between where the action happens within our factory floors and our own offices and where we might be able to compute, analyze, store make decisions. And so that's resulted in things like outposts where we can put outposts in their own data center or their own field office, wavelength, where we're working with 5G telecom providers to put computing storage in the carrier hubs of the various 5G providers. Again, with reducing latency, we've been doing things like local zones, where we put zones in an increasing number of cities across the country with the goal of just reducing the average latency between the vast majority of customers and AWS resources. So instead of thinking edge, we really think in terms of how do we make sure that our customers can realize their dreams. >> Staying on the flywheel that AWS has built on ship stuff faster, make things faster, smaller, cheaper, great mission. I want to ask you about the working backwards document. I know it's been getting a lot of public awareness. I've been, that's all I've learned in interviewing Amazon folks. They always work backwards. I always mentioned the customer and all the interviews. So you've got a couple of customer references in there check the box there for you. But working backwards has become kind of a guiding principles, almost like a Harvard Business School case study approach to management. As you guys look at this working backwards and ex Amazonians have written books about it now so people can go look at, it's a really good methodology. Take us back to how you guys work back from the customers because here we're featuring 10 startups. So companies that are out there and Andy has been preaching this to customers. You should think about working backwards because it's so fast. These companies are going into this enterprise market your ecosystem of startups to provide value. What things are you seeing that customers need to think about to work backwards from their customer? How do you see that? 'Cause you've been on the community side, you see the tech side customers have to move fast and work backwards. What are the things that they need to focus on? What's your observation? >> So there's actually a brand new book called "Working Backwards," which I actually learned a lot about our own company from simply reading the book. And I think to me, a principal part of learning backward it's really about humility and being able to be a great listener. So you don't walk into a customer meeting ready to just broadcast the latest and greatest that we've been working on. You walk in and say, I'm here from AWS and I simply want to learn more about who you are, what you're doing. And most importantly, what do you want to do that we're not able to help you with right now? And then once we hear those kinds of things we don't simply write down kind of a bullet item of AWS needs to improve. It's this very active listening process. Tell me a little bit more about this challenge and if we solve it in this way or this way which one's a better fit for your needs. And then a typical AWS launch, we might talk to between 50 and 100 customers in depth to make sure that we have that detailed understanding of what they would like to do. We can't always meet all the needs of these customers but the idea is let's see what is the common base that we can address first. And then once we get that first iteration out there, let's keep listening, let's keep making it better and better and better as quickly. >> A lot of people might poopoo that John but I got to tell you, John, you will remember this the first time we ever met Andy Jassy face-to-face. I was in the room, you were on the speaker phone. We were building an app on AWS at the time. And he was asking you John, for feedback. And he was probing and he pulled out his notebook. He was writing down and he wasn't just superficial questions. He was like, well, why'd you do it that way? And he really wanted to dig. So this is cultural. >> Yeah. I mean, that's the classic Amazon. And that's the best thing about it is that you can go from zero startups zero stage startup to traction. And that was the premise of the cloud. Jeff, I want to get your thoughts and commentary on this love to get your opinion. You've seen this grow from the beginning. And I remember 'cause I've been playing with AWS since the beginning as well. And it says as an entrepreneur I remember my first EC2 instance that didn't even have custom domain support. It was the long URL. You seen the startups and now that we've been 15 years in, you see Dropbox was it just a startup back in the day. I remember these startups that when they were coming they were all born on Amazon, right? These big now unicorns, you were there when these guys were just developers and these gals. So what's it like, I mean, you see just the growth like here's a couple of people with them ideas rubbing nickels together, making magic happen who knows what's going to turn into, you've been there. What's it been like? >> It's been a really unique journey. And to me like the privilege of a lifetime, honestly I've like, you always want to be part of something amazing and you aspire to it and you study hard and you work hard and you always think, okay, somewhere in this universe something really cool is about to happen. And if you're really, really lucky and just a million great pieces of luck like lineup in series, sometimes it actually all works out and you get to be part of something like this when it does you don't always fully appreciate just how awesome it is from the inside, because you're just there just like feeding the machine and you are just doing your job just as fast as you possibly can. And in my case, it was listening to teams and writing blog posts about their launches and sharing them on social media, going out and speaking, you do it, you do it as quickly as possible. You're kind of running your whole life as you're doing that as well. And suddenly you just take a little step back and say, wow we did this kind of amazing thing, but we don't tend to like relax and say, okay, we've done it at Amazon. We get to a certain point. We recognize it. And five minutes later, we're like, okay, let's do the next amazingly good thing. But it's been this just unique privilege and something that I never thought I'd be fortunate enough to be a part of. >> Well, then the last few minutes we have Jeff I really appreciate you taking the time to spend with us for this inaugural launch of theCUBE on cloud startup showcase. We are showcasing 10 startups here from your ecosystem. And a lot of people who know AWS for the folks that don't you guys pride yourself on community and ecosystem the global startups program that Jeremy and his team are running. You guys nurture these startups. You want them to be successful. They're vectoring out into the marketplace with growth strategy, helping customers. What's your take on this ecosystem? As customers are out there listening to this what's your advice to them? How should they engage? Why is these sets of start-ups so important? >> Well, I totally love startups and I've spent time in several startups. I've spent other time consulting with them. And I think we're in this incredible time now wheres, it's so easy and straightforward to get those basic resources, to get your compute, to get your storage, to get your databases, to get your machine learning and to take that and to really focus on your customers and to build what you want. And we see this actual exponential growth. And we see these startups that find something to do. They listen to one of their customers, they build that solution. And they're just that feedback cycle gets started. It's really incredible. And I love to see the energy of these startups. I love to hear from them. And at any point if we've got an AWS powered startup and they build something awesome and want to share it with me, I'm all ears. I love to hear about them. Emails, Twitter mentions, whatever I'll just love to hear about all this energy all those great success with our startups. >> Jeff Barr, thank you for coming on. And congratulations, please pass on to Andy Jassy who's going to take over for Jeff Bezos and I saw the big news that he's picking a successor an Amazonian coming back into the fold, Adam. So congratulations on that. >> I will definitely pass on your congratulations to Andy and I worked with Adam in the past when AWS was just getting started and really looking forward to seeing him again, welcoming back and working with him. >> All right, Jeff Barr with AWS guys check out his Twitter and all the social coordinates. He is pumping out all the resources you need to know about if you're a developer or you're an enterprise looking to go to the next level, next generation, modern infrastructure. Thanks Jeff for coming on. Really appreciate it. Our next guests want to bring up stage Michael Liebow from McKinsey cube alumni, who is a great guest who is very timely in his McKinsey role with a paper he and his colleagues put out called cloud's trillion dollar prize up for grabs. Michael, thank you for coming up on stage with Dave and I. >> Hey, great to be here, John. Thank you. >> One of the things I loved about this and why I wanted you to come on was not only is the report awesome. And Dave has got a zillion questions, he want us to drill into. But in 2015, we wrote a story called Andy Jassy trillion dollar baby on Forbes, and then on medium and silken angle where we were the first ones to profile Andy Jassy and talk about this trillion dollar term. And Dave came up with the calculation and people thought we were crazy. What are you talking about trillion dollar opportunity. That was in 2015. You guys have put this together with a serious research report with methodology and you left a lot on the table. I noticed in the report you didn't even have a whole section quantified. So I think just scratching the surface trillion. I'd be a little light, Dave, so let's dig into it, Michael thanks for coming on. >> Well, and I got to say, Michael that John's a trillion dollar baby was revenue. Yours is EBITDA. So we're talking about seven to X, seven to eight X. What we were talking back then, but great job on the report. Fantastic work. >> Thank you. >> So tell us about the report gives a quick lowdown. I got some questions. You guys are unlocking the value drivers but give us a quick overview of this report that people can get for free. So everyone who's registered will get a copy but give us a quick rundown. >> Great. Well the question I think that has bothered all of us for a long time is what's the business value of cloud and how do you quantify it? How do you specify it? Because a lot of people talk around the infrastructure or technical value of cloud but that actually is a big problem because it just scratches the surface of the potential of what cloud can mean. And we focus around the fortune 500. So we had to box us in somewhat. And so focusing on the fortune 500 and fast forwarding to 2030, we put out this number that there's over a trillion dollars worth of value. And we did a lot of analysis using research from a variety of partners, using third-party research, primary research in order to come up with this view. So the business value is two X the technical value of cloud. And as you just pointed out, there is a whole unlock of additional value where organizations can pioneer on some of the newest technologies. And so AWS and others are creating platforms in order to do not just machine learning and analytics and IOT, but also for quantum or mixed reality for blockchain. And so organizations specific around the fortune 500 that aren't leveraging these capabilities today are going to get left behind. And that's the message we were trying to deliver that if you're not doing this and doing this with purpose and with great execution, that others, whether it's others in your industry or upstarts who were motioning into your industry, because as you say cloud democratizes compute, it provides these capabilities and small companies with talent. And that's what the skills can leverage these capabilities ahead of slow moving incumbents. And I think that was the critical component. So that gives you the framework. We can deep dive based on your questions. >> Well before we get into the deep dive, I want to ask you we have startups being showcased here as part of the, it will showcase, they're coming out of the ecosystem. They have a lot of certification from Amazon and they're secure, which is a big issue. Enterprises that you guys talk to McKinsey speaks directly to I call the boardroom CXOs, the top executives. Are they realizing that the scale and timing of this agility window? I mean, you want to go through these key areas that you would break out but as startups become more relevant the boardrooms that are making these big decisions realize that their businesses are up for grabs. Do they realize that all this wealth is shifting? And do they see the role of startups helping them? How did you guys come out of them and report on that piece? >> Well in terms of the whole notion, we came up with this framework which looked at the opportunity. We talked about it in terms of three dimensions, rejuvenate, innovate and pioneer. And so from the standpoint of a board they're more than focused on not just efficiency and cost reduction basically tied to nation, but innovation tied to analytics tied to machine learning, tied to IOT, tied to two key attributes of cloud speed and scale. And one of the things that we did in the paper was leverage case examples from across industry, across-region there's 17 different case examples. My three favorite is one is Moderna. So software for life couldn't have delivered the vaccine as fast as they did without cloud. My second example was Goldman Sachs got into consumer banking is the platform behind the Apple card couldn't have done it without leveraging cloud. And the third example, particularly in early days of the pandemic was Zoom that added five to 6,000 servers a night in order to scale to meet the demand. And so all three of those examples, plus the other 14 just indicate in business terms what the potential is and to convince boards and the C-suite that if you're not doing this, and we have some recommendations in terms of what CEOs should do in order to leverage this but to really take advantage of those capabilities. >> Michael, I think it's important to point out the approach at sometimes it gets a little wonky on the methodology but having done a lot of these types of studies and observed there's a lot of superficial studies out there, a lot of times people will do, they'll go I'll talk to a customer. What kind of ROI did you get? And boom, that's the value study. You took a different approach. You have benchmark data, you talked to a lot of companies. You obviously have a lot of financial data. You use some third-party data, you built models, you bounded it. And ultimately when you do these things you have to ascribe a value contribution to the cloud component because fortunate 500 companies are going to grow even if there were no cloud. And the way you did that is again, you talk to people you model things, and it's a very detailed study. And I think it's worth pointing out that this was not just hey what'd you get from going to cloud before and after. This was a very detailed deep dive with really a lot of good background work going into it. >> Yeah, we're very fortunate to have the McKinsey Global Institute which has done extensive studies in these areas. So there was a base of knowledge that we could leverage. In fact, we looked at over 700 use cases across 19 industries in order to unpack the value that cloud contributed to those use cases. And so getting down to that level of specificity really, I think helps build it from the bottom up and then using cloud measures or KPIs that indicate the value like how much faster you can deploy, how much faster you can develop. So these are things that help to kind of inform the overall model. >> Yeah. Again, having done hundreds, if not thousands of these types of things, when you start talking to people the patterns emerge, I want to ask you there's an exhibit tool in here, which is right on those use cases, retail, healthcare, high-tech oil and gas banking, and a lot of examples. And I went through them all and virtually every single one of them from a value contribution standpoint the unlocking value came down to data large data sets, document analysis, converting sentiment analysis, analytics. I mean, it really does come down to the data. And I wonder if you could comment on that and why is it that cloud is enabled that? >> Well, it goes back to scale. And I think the word that I would use would be data gravity because we're talking about massive amounts of data. So as you go through those kind of three dimensions in terms of rejuvenation one of the things you can do as you optimize and clarify and build better resiliency the thing that comes into play I think is to have clean data and data that's available in multiple places that you can create an underlying platform in order to leverage the services, the capabilities around, building out that structure. >> And then if I may, so you had this again I want to stress as EBITDA. It's not a revenue and it's the EBITDA potential as a result of leveraging cloud. And you listed a number of industries. And I wonder if you could comment on the patterns that you saw. I mean, it doesn't seem to be as simple as Negroponte bits versus Adam's in terms of your ability to unlock value. What are the patterns that you saw there and why are the ones that have so much potential why are they at the top of the list? >> Well, I mean, they're ranked based on impact. So the five greatest industries and again, aligned by the fortune 500. So it's interesting when you start to unpack it that way high-tech oil, gas, retail, healthcare, insurance and banking, right? Top. And so we did look at the different solutions that were in that, tried to decipher what was fully unlocked by cloud, what was accelerated by cloud and what was perhaps in this timeframe remaining on premise. And so we kind of step by step, expert by expert, use case by use case deciphered of the 700, how that applied. >> So how should practitioners within organizations business but how should they use this data? What would you recommend, in terms of how they think about it, how they apply it to their business, how they communicate? >> Well, I think clearly what came out was a set of best practices for what organizations that were leveraging cloud and getting the kind of business return, three things stood out, execution, experience and excellence. And so for under execution it's not just the transaction, you're not just buying cloud you're changing their operating model. And so if the organization isn't kind of retooling the model, the processes, the workflows in order to support creating the roles then they aren't going to be able, they aren't going to be successful. In terms of experience, that's all about hands-on. And so you have to dive in, you have to start you have to apply yourself, you have to gain that applied knowledge. And so if you're not gaining that experience, you're not going to move forward. And then in terms of excellence, and it was mentioned earlier by Jeff re-skilling, up-skilling, if you're not committed to your workforce and pushing certification, pushing training in order to really evolve your workforce or your ways of working you're not going to leverage cloud. So those three best practices really came up on top in terms of what a mature cloud adopter looks like. >> That's awesome. Michael, thank you for coming on. Really appreciate it. Last question I have for you as we wrap up this trillion dollar segment upon intended is the cloud mindset. You mentioned partnering and scaling up. The role of the enterprise and business is to partner with the technologists, not just the technologies but the companies talk about this cloud native mindset because it's not just lift and shift and run apps. And I have an IT optimization issue. It's about innovating next gen solutions and you're seeing it in public sector. You're seeing it in the commercial sector, all areas where the relationship with partners and companies and startups in particular, this is the startup showcase. These are startups are more relevant than ever as the tide is shifting to a new generation of companies. >> Yeah, so a lot of think about an engine. A lot of things have to work in order to produce the kind of results that we're talking about. Brad, you're more than fair share or unfair share of trillion dollars. And so CEOs need to lead this in bold fashion. Number one, they need to craft the moonshot or the Marshot. They have to set that goal, that aspiration. And it has to be a stretch goal for the organization because cloud is the only way to enable that achievement of that aspiration that's number one, number two, they really need a hardheaded economic case. It has to be defined in terms of what the expectation is going to be. So it's not loose. It's very, very well and defined. And in some respects time box what can we do here? I would say the cloud data, your organization has to move in an agile fashion training DevOps, and the fourth thing, and this is where the startups come in is the cloud platform. There has to be an underlying platform that supports those aspirations. It's an art, it's not just an architecture. It's a living, breathing live service with integrations, with standardization, with self service that enables this whole program. >> Awesome, Michael, thank you for coming on and sharing the McKinsey perspective. The report, the clouds trillion dollar prize is up for grabs. Everyone who's registered for this event will get a copy. We will appreciate it's also on the website. We'll make sure everyone gets a copy. Thanks for coming, I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thanks, Michael. >> Okay, Dave, big discussion there. Trillion dollar baby. That's the cloud. That's Jassy. Now he's going to be the CEO of AWS. They have a new CEO they announced. So that's going to be good for Amazon's kind of got clarity on the succession to Jassy, trusted soldier. The ecosystem is big for Amazon. Unlike Microsoft, they have the different view, right? They have some apps, but they're cultivating as many startups and enterprises as possible in the cloud. And no better reason to change gears here and get a venture capitalist in here. And a friend of theCUBE, Jerry Chen let's bring them up on stage. Jerry Chen, great to see you partner at Greylock making all the big investments. Good to see you >> John hey, Dave it's great to be here with you guys. Happy marks.Can you see that? >> Hey Jerry, good to see you man >> So Jerry, our first inaugural AWS startup showcase we'll be doing these quarterly and we're going to be featuring the best of the best, you're investing in all the hot startups. We've been tracking your careers from the beginning. You're a good friend of theCUBE. Always got great commentary. Why are startups more important than ever before? Because in the old days we've talked about theCUBE before startups had to go through certain certifications and you've got tire kicking, you got to go through IT. It's like going through security at the airport, take your shoes off, put your belt on thing. I mean, all kinds of things now different. The world has changed. What's your take? >> I think startups have always been a great way for experimentation, right? It's either new technologies, new business models, new markets they can move faster, the experiment, and a lot of startups don't work, unfortunately, but a lot of them turned to be multi-billion dollar companies. I thing startup is more important because as we come out COVID and economy is recovery is a great way for individuals, engineers, for companies for different markets to try different things out. And I think startups are running multiple experiments at the same time across the globe trying to figure how to do things better, faster, cheaper. >> And McKinsey points out this use case of rejuvenate, which is essentially retool pivot essentially get your costs down or and the next innovation here where there's Tam there's trillion dollars on unlock value and where the bulk of it is is the innovation, the new use cases and existing new use cases. This is where the enterprises really have an opportunity. Could you share your thoughts as you invest in the startups to attack these new waves these new areas where it may not look the same as before, what's your assessment of this kind of innovation, these new use cases? >> I think we talked last time about kind of changing the COVID the past year and there's been acceleration of things like how we work, education, medicine all these things are going online. So I think that's very clear. The first wave of innovation is like, hey things we didn't think we could be possible, like working remotely, e-commerce everywhere, telemedicine, tele-education, that's happening. I think the second order of fact now is okay as enterprises realize that this is the new reality everything is digital, everything is in the cloud and everything's going to be more kind of electronic relation with the customers. I think that we're rethinking what does it mean to be a business? What does it mean to be a bank? What does it mean to be a car company or an energy company? What does it mean to be a retailer? Right? So I think the rethinking that brands are now global, brands are all online. And they now have relationships with the customers directly. So I think if you are a business now, you have to re experiment or rethink about your business model. If you thought you were a Nike selling shoes to the retailers, like half of Nike's revenue is now digital right all online. So instead of selling sneakers through stores they're now a direct to consumer brand. And so I think every business is going to rethink about what the AR. Airbnb is like are they in the travel business or the experience business, right? Airlines, what business are they in? >> Yeah, theCUBE we're direct to consumer virtual totally opened up our business model. Dave, the cloud premise is interesting now. I mean, let's reset this where we are, right? Andy Jassy always talks about the old guard, new guard. Okay we've been there done that, even though they still have a lot of Oracle inside AWS which we were joking the other day, but this new modern era coming out of COVID Jerry brings this up. These startups are going to be relevant take territory down in the enterprises as new things develop. What's your premise of the cloud and AWS prospect? >> Well, so Jerry, I want to to ask you. >> Jerry: Yeah. >> The other night, last Thursday, I think we were in Clubhouse. Ben Horowitz was on and Martine Casado was laying out this sort of premise about cloud startups saying basically at some point they're going to have to repatriate because of the Amazon VIG. I mean, I'm paraphrasing and I guess the premise was that there's this variable cost that grows as you scale but I kind of shook my head and I went back. You saw, I put it out on Twitter a clip that we had the a couple of years ago and I don't think, I certainly didn't see it that way. Maybe I'm getting it wrong but what's your take on that? I just don't see a snowflake ever saying, okay we're going to go build our own data center or we're going to repatriate 'cause they're going to end up like service now and have this high cost infrastructure. What do you think? >> Yeah, look, I think Martin is an old friend from VMware and he's brilliant. He has placed a lot of insights. There is some insights around, at some point a scale, use of startup can probably run things more cost-effectively in your own data center, right? But I think that's fewer companies more the vast majority, right? At some point, but number two, to your point, Dave going on premise versus your own data center are two different things. So on premise in a customer's environment versus your own data center are two different worlds. So at some point some scale, a lot of the large SaaS companies run their own data centers that makes sense, Facebook and Google they're at scale, they run their own data centers, going on premise or customer's environment like a fortune 100 bank or something like that. That's a different story. There are reasons to do that around compliance or data gravity, Dave, but Amazon's costs, I don't think is a legitimate reason. Like if price is an issue that could be solved much faster than architectural decisions or tech stacks, right? Once you're on the cloud I think the thesis, the conversation we had like a year ago was the way you build apps are very different in the cloud and the way built apps on premise, right? You have assume storage, networking and compute elasticity that's independent each other. You don't really get that in a customer's data center or their own environment even with all the new technologies. So you can't really go from cloud back to on-premise because the way you build your apps look very, very different. So I would say for sure at some scale run your own data center that's why the hyperscale guys do that. On-premise for customers, data gravity, compliance governance, great reasons to go on premise but for vast majority of startups and vast majority of customers, the network effects you get for being in the cloud, the network effects you get from having everything in this alas cloud service I think outweighs any of the costs. >> I couldn't agree more and that's where the data is, at the way I look at it is your technology spend is going to be some percentage of revenue and it's going to be generally flat over time and you're going to have to manage it whether it's in the cloud or it's on prem John. >> Yeah, we had a quote on theCUBE on the conscious that had Jerry I want to get your reaction to this. The executive said, if you don't have an AI strategy built into your value proposition you will be shorted as a stock on wall street. And I even went further. So you'll probably be delisted cause you won't be performing with a tongue in cheek comment. But the reality is that that's indicating that everyone has to have AI in their thing. Mainly as a reality, what's your take on that? I know you've got a lot of investments in this area as AI becomes beyond fashion and becomes table stakes. Where are we on that spectrum? And how does that impact business and society as that becomes a key part of the stack and application stack? >> Yeah, I think John you've seen AI machine learning turn out to be some kind of novelty thing that a bunch of CS professors working on years ago to a funnel piece of every application. So I would say the statement of the sentiment's directionally correct that 20 years ago if you didn't have a web strategy or a website as a company, your company be sure it, right? If you didn't have kind of a internet website, you weren't real company. Likewise, if you don't use AI now to power your applications or machine learning in some form or fashion for sure you'd be at a competitive disadvantage to everyone else. And just like if you're not using software intelligently or the cloud intelligently your stock as a company is going to underperform the rest of the market. And the cloud guys on the startups that we're backing are making AI so accessible and so easy for developers today that it's really easy to use some level of machine learning, any applications, if you're not doing that it's like not having a website in 1999. >> Yeah. So let's get into that whole operation side. So what would you be your advice to the enterprises that are watching and people who are making decisions on architecture and how they roll out their business model or value proposition? How should they look at AI and operations? I mean big theme is day two operations. You've got IT service management, all these things are being disrupted. What's the operational impact to this? What's your view on that? >> So I think two things, one thing that you and Dave both talked about operation is the key, I mean, operations is not just the guts of the business but the actual people running the business, right? And so we forget that one of the values are going to cloud, one of the values of giving these services is you not only have a different technology stack, all the bits, you have a different human stack meaning the people running your cloud, running your data center are now effectively outsource to Amazon, Google or Azure, right? Which I think a big part of the Amazon VIG as Dave said, is so eloquently on Twitter per se, right? You're really paying for those folks like carry pagers. Now take that to the next level. Operations is human beings, people intelligently trying to figure out how my business can run better, right? And that's either accelerate revenue or decrease costs, improve my margin. So if you want to use machine learning, I would say there's two areas to think about. One is how I think about customers, right? So we both talked about the amount of data being generated around enterprise individuals. So intelligently use machine learning how to serve my customers better, then number two AI and machine learning internally how to run my business better, right? Can I take cost out? Can I optimize supply chain? Can I use my warehouses more efficiently my logistics more efficiently? So one is how do I use AI learning to be a more familiar more customer oriented and number two, how can I take cost out be more efficient as a company, by writing AI internally from finance ops, et cetera. >> So, Jerry, I wonder if I could ask you a little different subject but a question on tactical valuations how coupled or decoupled are private company valuations from the public markets. You're seeing the public markets everybody's freaking out 'cause interest rates are going to go up. So the future value of cash flows are lower. Does that trickle in quickly into the private markets? Or is it a whole different dynamic? >> If I could weigh in poly for some private markets Dave I would have a different job than I do today. I think the reality is in the long run it doesn't matter as much as long as you're investing early. Now that's an easy answer say, boats have to fall away. Yes, interest rates will probably go up because they're hard to go lower, right? They're effectively almost zero to negative right now in most of the developed world, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to trade my Twilio shares or Salesforce shares for like a 1% yield bond, right? I'm going to hold the high growth tech stocks because regardless of what interest rates you're giving me 1%, 2%, 3%, I'm still going to beat that with a top tech performers, Snowflake, Twilio Hashi Corp, bunch of the private companies out there I think are elastic. They're going to have a great 10, 15 year run. And in the Greylock portfolio like the things we're investing in, I'm super bullish on from Roxanne to Kronos fear, to true era in the AI space. I think in the long run, next 10 years these things will outperform the market that said, right valuation prices have gone up and down and they will in our careers, they have. In the careers we've been covering tech. So I do believe that they're high now they'll come down for sure. Will they go back up again? Definitely, right? But as long as you're betting these macro waves I think we're all be good. >> Great answer as usual. Would you trade them for NFTs Jerry? >> That $69 million people piece of artwork look, I mean, I'm a longterm believer in kind of IP and property rights in the blockchain, right? And I'm waiting for theCUBE to mint this video as the NFT, when we do this guys, we'll mint this video's NFT and see how much people pay for the original Dave, John, Jerry (mumbles). >> Hey, you know what? We can probably get some good bang for that. Hey it's all about this next Jerry. Jerry, great to have you on, final question as we got this one minute left what's your advice to the people out there that either engaging with these innovative startups, we're going to feature startups every quarter from the in the Amazon ecosystem, they are going to be adding value. What's the advice to the enterprises that are engaging startups, the approach, posture, what's your advice. >> Yeah, when I talk to CIOs and large enterprises, they often are wary like, hey, when do I engage a startup? How, what businesses, and is it risky or low risk? Now I say, just like any career managing, just like any investment you're making in a big, small company you should have a budget or set of projects. And then I want to say to a CIO, Hey, every priority on your wish list, go use the startup, right? I mean, that would be 10 for 10 projects, 10 startups. Probably too much risk for a lot of tech companies. But we would say to most CIOs and executives, look, there are strategic initiatives in your business that you want to accelerate. And I would take the time to invest in one or two startups each quarter selectively, right? Use the time, focus on fewer startups, go deep with them because we can actually be game changers in terms of inflecting your business. And what I mean by that is don't pick too many startups because you can't devote the time, but don't pick zero startups because you're going to be left behind, right? It'd be shorted as a stock by the John, Dave and Jerry hedge fund apparently but pick a handful of startups in your strategic areas, in your top tier three things. These really, these could be accelerators for your career. >> I have to ask you real quick while you're here. We've got a couple minutes left on startups that are building apps. I've seen DevOps and the infrastructure as code movement has gone full mainstream. That's really what we're living right now. That kind of first-generation commercialization of DevOps. Now DevSecOps, what are the trends that you've seen that's different from say a couple of years ago now that we're in COVID around how apps are being built? Is it security? Is it the data integration? What can you share as a key app stack impact (mumbles)? >> Yeah, I think there're two things one is security is always been a top priority. I think that was the only going forward period, right? Security for sure. That's why you said that DevOps, DevSecOps like security is often overlooked but I think increasingly could be more important. The second thing is I think we talked about Dave mentioned earlier just the data around customers, the data on premise or the cloud, and there's a ton of data out there. We keep saying this over and over again like data's new oil, et cetera. It's evolving and not changing because the way we're using data finding data is changing in terms of sources of data we're using and discovering and also speed of data, right? In terms of going from Basser real-time is changing. The speed of business has changed to go faster. So I think these are all things that we're thinking about. So both security and how you use your data faster and better. >> Yeah you were in theCUBE a number of years ago and I remember either John or I asked you about you think Amazon is going to go up the stack and start developing applications and your answer was you know what I think no, I think they're going to enable a new set of disruptors to come in and disrupt the SaaS world. And I think that's largely playing out. And one of the interesting things about Adam Selipsky appointment to the CEO, he comes from Tableau. He really helped Tableau go from that sort of old guard model to an ARR model obviously executed a great exit to Salesforce. And now I see companies like Salesforce and service now and Workday is potential for your scenario to really play out. They've got in my view anyway, outdated pricing models. You look at what's how Snowflake's pricing and the consumption basis, same with Datadog same with Stripe and new startups seem to really be a leading into the consumption-based pricing model. So how do you, what are your thoughts on that? And maybe thoughts on Adam and thoughts on SaaS disruption? >> I think my thesis still holds that. I don't think Selipsky Adam is going to go into the app space aggressively. I think Amazon wants to enable next generation apps and seeing some of the new service that they're doing is they're kind of deconstructing apps, right? They're deconstructing the parts of CRM or e-commerce and they're offering them as services. So I think you're going to see Amazon continue to say, hey we're the core parts of an app like payments or custom prediction or some machine learning things around applications you want to buy bacon, they're going to turn those things to the API and sell those services, right? So you look at things like Stripe, Twilio which are two of the biggest companies out there. They're not apps themselves, they're the components of the app, right? Either e-commerce or messaging communications. So I can see Amazon going down that path. I think Adam is a great choice, right? He was a longterm early AWS exact from the early days latent to your point Dave really helped take Tableau into kind of a cloud business acquired by Salesforce work there for a few years under Benioff the guy who created quote unquote cloud and now him coming home again and back to Amazon. So I think it'll be exciting to see how Adam runs the business. >> And John I think he's the perfect choice because he's got operations chops and he knows how to... He can help the startups disrupt. >> Yeah, and he's been a trusted soldier of Jassy from the beginning, he knows the DNA. He's got some CEO outside experience. I think that was the key he knows. And he's not going to give up Amazon speed, but this is baby, right? So he's got him in charge and he's a trusted lieutenant. >> You think. Yeah, you think he's going to hold the mic? >> Yeah. We got to go. Jerry Chen thank you very much for coming on. Really appreciate it. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on our inaugural cube on cloud AWS startup event. Now for the 10 startups, enjoy the sessions at 12:30 Pacific, we're going to have the closing keynote. I'm John Ferry for Dave Vellante and our special guests, thanks for watching and enjoy the rest of the day and the 10 startups. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage VMworld 2020. Brought to you by the VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Everyone, welcome to "theCUBE's" virtual coverage of VMworld 2020. I'm John furrier with my cohosts, Stuart Miniman and Dave Vellante. 10 years covering VM it's our 11th Vmworld, 2010 was our first. Guys, this is an unusual event. It's not in person. Analyzing the keynotes and essentially the main announcements in the general sessions. Let's analyze VMworld 2020. I know it's hard, we're not in person. A lot of the hallway conversations we're grabbing on Twitter. Obviously we've got our Cube interviews on "theCube".net. There's a link on the front page of the VMworld site. Check it out and go check out all the dozens of interviews we're doing here with our community. But, the event is "Digital Foundation "For An Unpredictable World," that's the theme. Most of the announcements are around future architecture, but the blocking and tackling is around AI With NVIDIA. You got security and you got some really key announcements around networking Stuart. So guys, what's your take on all this? Because, VMware has to set the table. They've made good moves under Gelsinger, last few years, you're seeing another Q2 successful quarter, Dave, you're starting to see VMware's investments pay off Raghu and the brain child who are behind VMware making these calls Stuart. Guys, this is the VMware's moment to go to the next level. What's your thoughts, Dave, we'll start with you. >> Well, I mean, as always you saw VMware have on stage some really high profile guests. So John Donahoe from Nike, who knows a little bit about the enterprise, right? He left ServiceNow after a couple of years, stint. Ironically ServiceNow is pushing a hundred billion dollar valuation. Nike's at 150. But he's more comfortable in the consumer world. CEO of Nvidia. I think that's a key move, Nvidia the arm acquisition. That's going to be critical at the edge. You're seeing VMware just throw its blanket around telco Edge cloud with VMware cloud and AWS, which is doing very well. We're going to talk about that in our cube segment. You're, seeing them really go after hybrid. And so they're really about expanding their marketplace and they've done a great job of that. For translating engineering into customer value and getting paid for it. >> I want to come back to you Dave, on this edge because some of the key trends that I think we've been on now that the whole world is kind of realizing that they're kind of going mainstream. One's been the edge and you mentioned ARM, and we got analysis on that. Stuart, cloud native, we've been banging on the cloud native drone. We've been riding that wave, now with the Snowflake IPO just happened earlier, you starting to see cloud native, everything is coming true. It's kind of evolving in front of us right now and the whole world is now on board with this new mega trend enterprise computing companies, the largest IPO, since we enrolled, actually if you look at Snowflake, so you start to see cloud native and Enterprise Technology as the next wave, this is huge. And VMware is a big part of it. Your thoughts from how they did the show. >> Yeah, so John, one of the questions we always ask is, how fast are customers moving? Are the vendors moving along with them? Our friend and often co-hosts in "theCube" Keith Townsend said, and it was kind of faint praise. "VMware has moved at the speed of the CIO." Dave, I've heard you so many times this year say that the impact of the pandemic, that the financial ramifications has been an accelerator for many of the transformational journeys that we've been talking about. Move to cloud much faster adopting cloud native faster. Companies that have gone through their digital transformation, are able to react much faster. And to be honest, I'm not sure that VMware's moving fast enough. We've seen them do a number of big acquisitions over the last few years. Some of them are doing great. Carbon Black, great to see them go deeper into the security space. We've talked a lot about that before. Some of the others, Pivotal came out of VMware and got pulled back in. Datrium was a recent acquisition. What we hear inside is, some of those groups and product lines have been trimmed back. So as companies are looking to move faster, they're looking to AWS is that bar. And while AWS is a big partner for VMware and very important, how many people will get to VMware on AWS and say, well, maybe I can scale back what my VMware state is, or maybe those some environments. So, we've said for the longest time, cloud is a double edged sword for many players you need to partner as closely as you can to keep that momentum going forward. But VMware is also getting cut by some of those deals. Boy, John, there was a big news a couple of weeks before the show here about how the VMware cloud on AWS, it's doing great. And if it's a big deal, the channel often gets cut out of it and Amazon's taking it. So there definitely are some things that put up a little bit warning lights for me as to who is winning, when it comes to the partnership. >> That's a great point, the ecosystem in VMware, out of 10 years we've been covering here, this is our 11th year with ""theCube"," we've always had that ecosystems evolving. And I think cloud native to me really sees how that's driving them with cloud. We saw that, serverless, you starting to see cloud native. And what cloud proved Dave was that developers really shouldn't care about the infrastructure being abstracted away. But now you look at multiple clouds, with VMware's now moving into having a multicloud kind of backbone, connected to these environments as a key strategy. But then you look at the edge. The edge is about purpose built devices, run with software and data. So whether it's at an office on a person or in space, you have these devices that is really not about the hardware, it's about the software running on them. They have to run into multiple environments. They are purpose built. They do have to run like cloud native. The edge is the next opportunity for VMware with multicloud. What's your thoughts and reaction to that? >> Well, I think there's no question. And again, the relevance of Nvidia on stage, we think that ARM and Nvidia are going to dominate AI inferencing at the edge real time, and you're going to need much more efficient processing at the edge than you're going to get with traditional x86 architectures. So today what we're seeing is a lot of companies, Dell, HPE included a throwing over x86 boxes to the edge. I think they clearly realized that ARM is going to be a player there and now with the Nvidia move. And I think, multicloud is really something that is starting to become real. I've often said multi-cloud has been more of a symptom of multi-vendor than an actual strategy. Well, that's changing. I think people don't want lock-in. I think they realize that they've got the right horse for the right course, and you're seeing Red Hat and VMware emerge as real leaders there. You're seeing it in the data, you're seeing VMware cloud on AWS. Okay, that's in AWS, but you're also seeing VMware Cloud Foundation and it's other VMware cloud capabilities emerging as in demand, a lot of spending velocity, a lot of interest gaining share. And so these are becoming real and they're becoming fundamental strategies as to your points Stuart, CIO's are catching up. And it's, actually becoming not just slideware, but real aware. >> Well, I'll debate that whole idea that CIO's are catching up, but I'd say CSOs already caught up. CIO's are catching up to the CSO, but this brings up the question Stuart, of what a modern app is. And this is one of the highlights of the show, modern applications, and feels a lot like kind of window dressing to the cloud native conversation because Tanzu is built into it but cloud native really is. This is where the modern apps are being built. And it's about security, it's about multiple clouds. So the question for you is, are we going to have a cloudless architecture? Because we've got serverless. Because if you think about modern apps, should you really care about which cloud it runs on? I'm sure Andy Jassy would be saying he does care. And you see Google almost shying away from having that conversation. But, Tanzu kind of speaks to a cloudless strategy. Is that something you see? >> John you're absolutely right. The goal we want is... Developers don't even want to think about the infrastructure at all. So cloudless serverless, storageless, it would all be wonderful if they didn't have to do that. Now, of course, data is the lifeblood of my business. We need to make sure that things are secure all the time. Serverless is wonderful and there's even some early connections that VMware and others in the traditional infrastructure space are tying to serverless environment. But if I look at VMware, John, this still isn't, where the app dev team people come, this is an infrastructure show and it needs to be an enabler for what they're doing. If you look at how Kubernetes integrates into VMware, it's, take your virtual estate and let's put containers in it and it can be managed in that environment. Or we've got some new tools we're developing and do some of that multicloud world, as opposed to the companies that are born in the cloud, or have a heavy leaning towards the cloud. This might not be attractive for them, but in many ways, it's extending what VMware has done for a long time. They've, got strong position here. And that's why John, as you've said, all the other clouds want to partner with VMware ' 'cause they've got just so many customers there that they will be... it's hybrid today it will be hybrid in the future. The public cloud is a pool, but the edge is also a pool. So that those new architectures like are starting to be put forward with project Monterey, give people a roadmap as to where they can go. And VMware absolutely is a key player in that discussion. >> Yeah, well, I want to bring this up real quick on project Monterey and then I want to get Dave's reaction too what the buyers are thinking about. 'Cause you know, we can debate the speed of the CIO and I'd love to have that debate in a separate segment. I think,COVID and the security threats are forcing the businesses to really be focused because if you not thinking about having an environment where people are working remotely and that's with COVID, and I'll see with the security vectors, if you don't have an architecture Stuart, then you're going to be screwed. So I think project Monterey feels to me as that VMware answer like, look, and you can have an end to end architecture. I think there's marketechure there's architecture, that's one thought. So let's react to that Stuart. How much of that do you see as, look at, if you want to move faster CIO, because they have to now move fast. COVID showed that and the ones that aren't are failing and it doesn't change the buyer behavior, Dave. Stuart we'll start with you Monterey. >> John I don't think we know yet. It is more marketecture I'd say you got to get into the whisper suites, have those discussions. There was not as much, pre-briefing on this. We talked for awhile, VMware on AWS, those solutions, they take two or three years to bake out. So I think Monterey is a good vision. They have some of the architectural underpinnings, but I'm not ready to say, "hey, you want to deploy that gear in 2020? "That's the blueprint that you want to use going forward," but it gets VMware a seat at the table. >> I'm a big fan of the project I think it's about time someone put a stake in the ground. So this is what a modern architecture looks like and love to debate that further, we'll do that another time, Dave buyers. Were they buying the VMware? What's your data tell you in terms of where the customers are right now in 2020, you've been doing a ton of breaking analysis on COVID fire behavior, spending patterns. How does VMware potentially its ecosystem stack up with all these focused cloud native, multicloud modern app and security and networking? >> Well, let's start with some data and I'll bring up this slide, which is this kind of wheel slide. And it's ETR data that talks to what we call net score. And essentially what it's doing is it's taking the green in this wheel, which is spending more and it's subtracting the red, which is spending less or leaving. And then you see that in the middle is 53% are flat. So they've got a net score at 29. What does that mean? That means this is a mature company, which is amazing to me that VMware continues to really outperform from a financial standpoint. Yeah, so you could see that, we subtract the red from the green. This is again a sign of a mature company, but the key is they've got to continue to invest. Now they make a lot of inorganic acquisitions and some organic acquisitions, but Dell, as we know, is using VMware's cashflow to restructure its balance sheet to go public, et cetera. So if you could bring up the next slide, if you would guys. This is a slide I like to share. And it shows in the vertical axis, spending momentum, which is net score and the horizontal axis, which is presence in the survey. It's a 1200 person survey or a respondent survey, IT buyers. Look where VMware cloud on AWS is. So while VMware has a 29%, net score, look at VMware cloud on AWS, look at VMware cloud, which is cloud foundation. And you can see Red Hat is in there with OpenShift, even OpenStack, believe it or not and telcos. And then just see the hyperscalers in the upper right. Everybody wants to be AWS or Azure, and you sort of see Google there. But the point of this is the momentum in hybrid cloud and multicloud, and VMware really is clearly in a very, very strong position there. So, back to your point about project Monterey, they're basically using this hybrid cloud notion to go everywhere. It's that TAM expansion that I love to talk about. And it's the innovation. The big question is if Dell's going to be squeezing VMware R&D, will it be able to continue to execute on that translation of engineering into product and customer value? That's going to be a challenge. We saw it decades ago, where IBM got squeezed doing stock buybacks and dividends R&D is the lifeblood of innovation. And so that's something that we have to watch very closely, I think. >> Just to one quick followup, Dave, we're talking about the financial pieces here we are in 2020, there's been the discussions and I know you've dug into it a bunch. By the time we get to VMworld 2021 will the ownership of VMware and the role that Michael Dell has, change? And will that impact that investment capability that you talked about? The cashflow just, I know you've done a lot of research on this and could it help educate our audience? >> Well, it's going to change the income statement of Dell because they won't have VMware in there anymore. It won't change VMware's cashflow. It will affect VMware and Dell's balance sheet. And so two companies, one chairman and the chairman is going to say, okay, let's rebalance the balance sheets and create an equilibrium. So Dell has less debt, VMware has more debt and we'll try to thread the needle so they're both investment grade, which will lower the interest costs on that debt. But fundamentally, I don't think it's going to change anything in terms of strategy, go to market, the close relationship was between Dell and VMware. the thing to watch is VMware's, Dell's piggyback. And so I would rather see a lot of that go... once this equilibrium is reached, I want to see that go more in R&D. You know, again, remember IBM has spent $6 billion in R&D for the past two decades IBM was right there. They could have invested in cloud the same way Amazon did. And in the same way that Microsoft did, they were kind of equal 20 years ago. And look what happened. You don't want that to happen to VMware. They must continue to spend on R&D and innovate. >> Oh, well let's get to the innovation strategy in a second, but I want to ask the ecosystem question, because if you go back in history guys, and remember when Pat Gelsinger had that year, where he was basically given the presentation of his life, and he was in the hot seat and there's a lot of rumors spinning around. Since then it's just been nothing but exceptional performance on as a company executing, all new bets have been played it's almost like he'd cleaned house, put the ship in the right direction they've been smooth sailing since strategically making all the right moves. Okay now that VMware is back on their footings and Dave they have a solid foundation, what happens to the ecosystem because now that their houses in order, what do they do with the ecosystem? How do you see it evolving? >> Well look, I mean the ecosystem is looking for alternatives. I mean they have to participate in VMware. It's part of their go to market. You remember Todd Neilson used to say, "For every dollar spend on a VMware license, "15 or 20 or $18 is spent in the ecosystem," you don't hear that type of ratio anymore. Maybe it still exists I'm sure it does because it's a very vibrant and robust ecosystem but look, let's face it. Jeff Clark and Michael Dell are very clear. We are going to do a much closer integration than EMC ever did. And look at HPE we're looking for alternatives, driving to the edge. That's a huge opportunity for people. VMware becomes the ecosystems cash cow, but they need new growth and new strategic opportunities. And so they got to play nice, but there's more green fields out there. >> Stuart multicloud and cloud native with Tansu I think this is a really big opportunity to reset the ecosystem with services, because it used to be vendors, you bolt on some data backup and recovery, and you have a bunch of people doing storage around VMware, and these big white spaces, they're kind of huge white spaces. But now, when you start getting into cloud native, is a whole new landscape developing. Your thoughts because we're seeing some activity, certainly companies that are building on top of clouds that are building on top of clouds. So you've got Snowflake builds on Amazon now, other clouds and you have companies building on Snowflake. So you're starting to see this kind of new interconnected cloud native landscape, your thoughts. >> Yeah, well John there's definitely a huge tug of war in the ecosystem. One of the things that's been really nice if you were a VMware partner, let's take data protection. Huge ecosystem companies like Veeam, that were created in that environment. Hot companies like Rubrik and Cohesity grew very much working in VMware. All of them now play natively with the cloud environments, but they also get pulled along when you do a VMware Cloud on AWS, on Azure, on Google, on Oracle. So VMware will pull some of the ecosystem with them, but that tug of war is well, if the customer decides to just go fully cloud native, that software needs to work there and you would think that the vendor actually makes more money if it's just natively there, there's not that middleman extra piece. So VMware has a slice the pie and like Microsoft or Oracle behind them, can they justify that value for the license that you're paying when I go to some of these environments. So VMware does not have the pull in the ecosystem Dave talked a bit about it. HPE, Cisco, IBM, all companies that were early, early big huge proponent of VMware now very much are investing heavily in alternative. So VMware major player but no longer the gravity that everyone orbits around. >> Dave, what do you think? >> I want to bring up another data point if I could I want to share something with you. This is a slide that talks about... It asks customers. Why would you not work with VMware? Why would you replace them? What are the reasons? And three things stand out to me, it's not around cloud on the very left alignment with Cloud they've taken care of that with the AWS deal and even now Oracle. And you look at the right hand side, you see technology lead or lag that's innovation. Look at how that gray a couple surveys ago, has gone down to the yellow. So that's off the table, not a problem with innovation, look at total cost of ownership that's gone down, in terms of concerns. The one concern is price and that stays up there. If that's your biggest challenge, that your price is too high, that says to me that VMware's ticking all the boxes of value. So they're in a really, really good position if they can continue to innovate and that's why I've been harping so much on innovation and R&D and key acquisitions they're are great acquire of companies. So, I see this as this data is very, very positive for VMware. If your price is too high and that's your big objection, all you need as good salespeople. >> Or also you'd lower the price and you shift the value to say new features, say cloud native or security. I'll see the movement they've been making with NSX Gelsinger famous quotes are things like, "Kubernetes the dial tone of the internet, "and NSX is the crown jewel security is a do over." So NSX Dave and Stuart, this been a big part of their theme every year. That's a core feature for their security play. That's where they're going to put a lot of value in there. You guys, what's your thoughts on that because you've got Cisco in going that " mh we're frenemies" that's what Sanjay Poonen says, but are they really frenemies? >> But culturally VMware is an engineering driven company they a great engineering team and they don't have dogma about these new... they don't get defensive about some new trends. They embraced Kubernetes, they finally figured out Cloud, they were sort of defensive originally, but they realized hey, and they got religion. So that's the smart thing to do, go on to the next way maybe take a little bit of heat if you've got to go through a transition, but they've done a phenomenal job of making those transitions and staying relevant >> What's the big wave guys? What's the big wave that VMware's riding? The 10 years out we're in we've seen the movie, we've been through a decade with VM world coverage Stuart Dave next 10 years, what's the big wave or waves plural? >> Well, cloud is the first one that they addressed no doubt and then they are in my mind, the leader, or certainly a leader in multicloud. Edge I think there's a big question Mark there, AI is going to be everywhere. I think security is the really interesting opportunity for VMware and it's going to be... the big battle and security is, do you go after these point products like Okta and CrowdStrike and Zscaler and SailPoint who are really doing very well right now in the market or do you want an integrated stack that can be, you good enough VMware will say it's best to breed. We'll see that is a huge opportunity for them because security just keeps getting more and more critical. We've seen that with COVID. >> Let's do final word on your thoughts on the next 10 years for VMware looking back and learn and looking forward. >> Yeah well Dave just building off what you were just saying there, we said that the mission for Pat Gelsinger was, could he do for VMware, what Indel had done for the longest time, which has expanded Tam, expand what markets to go into, but not completely tick off the ecosystem and have them run away. So you saw here at the show, I mean Dave, Zscaler is a partner there. Security absolutely is a monster opportunity and John networking, networking, right. But it should be multibillion dollar business for VMware and they can eat some of that multicloud environment. we talk specifically about SD-WAN, now that cloud's doing well. So VMware that's software across environments, hybrid cloud multicloud, they're well positioned today, they just need to move a little bit faster and make sure they don't bleed talent and continue to support their customers because Dave, you're right how many times have people said, "Microsoft too expensive. "Oracle's too expensive." Here we are in 2020, they still have pretty strong positions VMware still has a very strong position. >> Well, I'll just add, I think it just shows what happens when you have a technical visionary, like Gelsinger in the lead and you have an industry visionary of not just technical, not just financial, but industry luminary like Michael Dell. These are very powerful... VMware and Dell have extremely capable management teams and you're seeing it in action >> And you've got Sanjay Poonen who's a great executer as well, he knows how to execute, he knows technology. Guys it's been a great run. I got to say for me personally, I'm so excited that, for 10 years that we've had "theCube" and the team covering the enterprise tech space, you can't be more excited. At least I'm so excited at the number one IPO in the history of wall street is an enterprise tech company. You can't see any more proof points that enterprise technology is now with the whole end to end architecture with the edge. We're talking about space, we're talking about cybersecurity. We're having now conversations with "theCube" that is now ranging... It reminds me David of the B to C world it's almost like consumerized. Now the enterprise technology is now so important that is now taking over the appeal on wall street entrepreneurs, and to me, VMware can tap into that on this next wave and this will be huge. Your thoughts on- >> I think the Snowflake IPO tells us several things. One, I totally agree, it says the technology is the now trend, no question about it. It also really underscores the cloud and it underscores the demand for issues other than the big Apple, Amazon, Google, et cetera. But it's really interesting to see as well the street continues to reward growth. I mean, Snowflake has as a valuation higher than Workday comparable to VMware. In fact it exceeded VMware on its first day. So that says that the street is rewarding growth. It's rewarding technology, it's rewarding cloud. And so that's that to me says great opportunities for companies like VMware who have both growth, great cash flow, they're profitable and they have a huge, huge customer base. So right now things look good for tech >> Dave enterprise tech is hot, it's sexy. Don't you think? Enterprise tech these days? >> Used to be storage is sexy. Now Enterprise tech sexy. >> You guys great run great analysis again, VMworld's virtual, we didn't have the face to face. We didn't have the hang space, but we have the virtual cube. Virtualization has come to "theCube". We have multiple tracks on our site, check out the content. Thanks for the analysis guys. Great keynote announcement coverage of the Vmworld 2020. This is "theCube". Thanks for watching. (digital music)

>>Live from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering UI path forward Americas 2019 brought to you by UI path. >>We're back in Las Vegas. UI path forward three. You're watching the cube, the leader in live tech coverage. Bobby Patrick is here. He's the COO of UI path. Welcome. Hi Dave. Good to see it to be here. Wow. Great to have the cube here again. Right? Q loves these hot shows like this. I mean this is, you've said Gardner hasn't done the fastest growing software segment you've seen in the data that we share from ETR. You guys are off the chart in terms of net score. It's happening. I hanging onto the rocket ship. How's it feel? Well it's crazy. I mean it's great. You all have seen some of the growth along the way too, right? I mean we had our first forward event less than two years ago and you know about 500 plus plus non UI path and people then go year later. It was Miami USY. >>There's probably a lot. Cube I think was Miami right yet and a, and that was a great event, but that was more in the 13 1400 range. This one's almost 3000 and the most amazing part about it was we had 8% attrition from the registrations. Yeah. That's never seen that we're averaging 18% of 20% for all of our, most of our events worldwide. But 8% the commitment is unbelievable. Even 18 to to 20% is very good. I mean normally you'll see 25 to sometimes as high as 50% yeah. It just underscores the heat. >> Well I think what's also great, other stats that you might find interesting. So over 50% of the attendees here are exec. Our senior executives, like for the first time we actually had S you know, C level executive CHRs and CEOs on stage. Right. You could feel the interest level. Now of course we want RPA developers at events too, right? >>But this show really does speak, I think to the bigger value propositions and the bigger business transformation opportunity from RPA. And I mean, you've come so far where no one knew RPA two years ago to the CIO of Morgan Stanley on stage, just warning raving about it. That's, we've come a long way in two years. >> Well, and I saw a lot of the banks here hovering around, you know, knocking on your door so they, they know they are like heat seeking missiles, you know, so, but the growth has been amazing. I mean I think ARR in 2017 was what, 25 million at this time. Uh, at the end of 17 it was 43 and 43 and 25 and now you're at 12 times higher now 1212 X solve X growth, which is the fastest growing software company. I think in that we know from one to 100 we were, we did that in 21 months and all that. >>And we had banks who now we're not really counting anymore and we're kind of, you know, now focus more on customer expansion. Even though we hit 5,000 customers, which we started the year at 2050 ish. We just crossed 5,000. I mean, so the number of customers is great, but there's no question. This conference is focused on scaling, helping them grow at enterprise wide with, with, with RPA. So I think our focus will be in to shift a bit, you know, to really customer expansion. Uh, and that's a lot of what this announcements, the product announcements were about a lot of what the theme here is about. We had four dozen customers on, on stage, you know, the Uber's of the world, the Amazons of the world. It's all about how they've been scaling. So that's the story now. Well, you know, we do a lot of these events and I go back to some of the, uh, when the cube first started, companies like Tablo, Dallas Blunck great service. >>Now, I mean, these you can, and when you talk to customers, first of all, it's easy to get customers to come talk about RPA. Yeah. And they're, they're all saying the same thing. I mean, Jeanne younger said she's never been more excited in her career from security benefit. But the thing is, Bobby, it's, I feel like they're, they're really just getting started. Yeah. I mean most of the use cases that you see are again, automating mundane task. We had one which was the American fidelity, which is a really bringing in AI. Right. But they're really just getting started. It's like one to 3% penetration. So what are your thoughts on that to kind of land and expand, if you will? I think, you know, look, last year we announced our vision of a robot for every person. At that point we had SNBC on stage and they were the one behind it. >>And they are an amazing story. Now we have a dozen or so that are onstage talking about a robot for every person like st and others. And so, but that, that, that's a pretty, pretty, pretty bold vision I think. Look, I think it's important to look at it both ways. Um, there's huge gold and applying RPA to solve real problems. There's a big opportunity, enterprise wide, no question. We've got that. But I look New York Foundling was on stage yesterday. We have New York Foundling is a 150 year old associate. Our charity in New York focused on child welfare, started by three fishers of charity. They focused on infants. And anyway, it's an amazing firm. Just the passion that New York family had on stage with Daniel yesterday was amazing. But what they flew here because for once they found a technology that actually makes a huge difference for them and what in their mission. >>So their first RPA operation was they have 850 clinicians every week. They spend four hours a week moving their contact, uh, a new contact data associate with child child issues from system to system to spreadsheet and paper to system, right? They use RPA and they now say for a 200,000 hours a year. But more importantly, those clinicians spend those four hours every week with children not moving. So I'm still taking, I think Daniel had a bit of a tear in his eye, hearing them talk about it on stage, but I'm still taken by, by the, by the sheer massive opportunity for RPA in, in a particular to solve some really amazing things. Now on a mass scale, a company can drive, you know, 10, 15, 20% productivity by every employee having a robot. Yes, that's true on a mass scale. They can completely transform their business, your transform customer experience, transform the workplace on a mass scale. >>And that, that is, that's a sea level GFC level goal and that's a big deal. But I love the stories that are very real. Um, and, and I think those are important to still do plug some great tech for good story. Look, tech gives, you know, the whole Facebook stuff and the fake news got beat up and it had Benny come out recently say, Hey, it's, it's not just about increasing the value to shareholders, you know, it's about tech for good and doing other things affecting lifestyle's life changing. And Michael Dell is another one. Now I've, I've, I've kind of said tongue in cheek, you know, show me the CEO misses is four quarters in a row and see if that holds up. But nonetheless, you love to see successful companies giving back. It seems to be, it's part of your, well look I've been part of hardware companies and I met you all through a few of them and others they have good noble causes but it was hard to really connect the dots. >>Yes there CPS underneath a number of these things. But I think judging by the emotional connection that these customers have on stage, right and these are the Walmarts and Uber's and others in the world judging by the employee and job satisfaction that they talk about the benefits there. I just, I my career, I have not seen that kind of real direct impact from you know, from B2B software for example on the lives of people both everyday at work but also just solving the solving, you know, help accelerate human achievement. Right. And so many amazing ways. We had the CEO of the U N I T shared services group on stage yesterday and they have a real challenge with, you know, with the growth of refugees worldwide and he would express them and they can't hit keep up. They don't have the funding, which is, you know, with everybody and, and Trump and others trying to hold back money. >>But they had this massive charter for of good, the only way they get there is through digital. The new CEO, the new head of the U N is a technology engineer. He came in and said, the way we solve this is with templates, with technology. And they decided, they said on stage yesterday that RPA and RPA has the path to AI and the greater, the greater new technologies and that's how they're going to do it. And it's just a, it's a really, it's, I think it's, it feels really great. You know, it's funny too, one of the things we've been talking about this week is people might be somewhat surprised that there's so much head room left for automation because the boy, 50 years of tech, Kevin, we automated everything. That's the other, but, and Daniel put forth the premise last night, it actually, technology is created more process problems or inefficiencies. >>So it's almost like tech has created this new problem. Can tech get us out of the problem? Well, essentially you think about all the applications we use in our lives, right? Um, you know, although people do have, you know, a Salesforce stack and sometimes in this SAP, the reality is they have a mix of a bunch of systems and then we add Slack to it and we add other tools and we add all the tools alone, have some great value. But from a process perspective of how we work everyday, right? How a business user might work at a call center, they have to interact then. And the reality is they're often interacting with old systems too because moving them is not easy, right? So now you've got old systems, new systems and, and really the only way to do that is to put a layer on top of the systems of engagement and the systems of record, right? >>A layer on top that's easy to actually build an application that goes between all of these different, these different applications, outlook, Excel, legacy systems and salesforce.com and so on and so on and, and build an app that solves a real problem, have it have outcomes quickly. And this is why, Dave, we unveiled the vision here that we believe that automation is the application. And when you begin to think about I could solve a problem now without requiring a bunch of it engineers who already are maxed out, right? Uh, I can solve a problem that can directly impact the businesses or directly impact customers. And I can do that on top of these old technologies by just dragging and dropping and using a designer tool like studio or studio X in a business user can do that. That's, that's a game changer. I think what's amazing is when you go to talk to a CIO who says, I've been automating for 20 years, you know, take up the ROI. >>Once they realize this is different, the light bulb goes off. We call it the automation first mindset. A light bulb goes off and you realize, okay, this is a very different whole different way of creating value for, for an organization. I think about how people weigh the way that people work today. You're constantly context switching. You're in different systems. Like you said, Slack, you're getting texts and you want to be responsive. You want to be real time. I know Jeff Frick who was the GM of the cube has got two giant screens right on his desk. I myself, I always have 1520 tabs open if I go, Oh you got so many tabs on my, yeah. Cause I'm constantly context switching, pulling things out of email, going back and forth and so and so. I'm starting to grok this notion of the automation is the app. >>At first I thought, okay, it's the killer app, but it's not about stitching things together with through API APIs. It's really about bringing an automation perspective across the organization. We heard it from Pepsi yesterday. Yeah, right. Sort of the fabric, the automation fabric throughout the organization. Now that's aspirational for most companies today, but that really is the vision. Well, I think you had Layla from Coca-Cola also on, right. And her V their vision there and they actually took the CDO role of the CIO and put them together. And they're realizing now that that transformation is driven by this new way of thinking. Yeah, I think, you know, look, we introduced a whole set of new brand new products and capabilities around scaling around helping build these applications quicker. I, I think, you know, fast forward one year from now, the, you know, the vision we outlined will be very obvious the way people interact with, you know, via UI path to build applications, assault come, the speed to the operate will be transformational and, and so, you know, and you see this conference hear me walk around. >>I mean you saw last year in the year before you see the year before, but it's, it's a whole, the speed at which we're evolving here, I think it's unprecedented. And so I'll talk a little bit about the market for has Crigler killer was awesome this morning. He really knows his stuff now. Last year I saw some data from him and said the market by 2020 4 billion, and I said, no way. It's going to be much larger than that. Gonna be 10 billion by 2020 I did Dave Volante fork, Becca napkin by old IDC day forecast. Now what he, what he showed today is data. It actually was 10 billion by 2020 because he was including services, the services, which is what I was including in my number as well, but the of it, which was so good for him now, but the only thing is he had this kind of linear growth and that's not how these rocket ship Marcus grow. >>They're more like an old guy for an S curve. You're going to get some steep part now, so I'd love to see like a longer term forecast because that it feels like that's how this is going to evolve. Right now it's like you've seated the base and you can just feel the momentum building and then I would expect you're going to see massive steep sort of exponential growth. Steeper. There may be, you know, nonlinear because that's how these markets go >> to come from the expansion potential, right? And none of our customers are more than 1% audit automated from an RPA perspective. So that shows you the massive opportunity. But back to the market site, data size, Craig and I and the other analysts, we talk often about this. I think the Tam views are very low and you'll look at our market share, let's just get some real data out there, right? >>Our market share in 2017 was 5% let's use Craig's linear data for now. You know, our market share this year is over 20% our market share applying, and I don't want to give the exact numbers as you don't provide guidance anymore, is substantially we're substantially gaining share now. I believe that's the reality of the market. I think because we know blue prisms numbers, we go four times faster than the every quarter automation. The world won't share their numbers. But you know, I can make some guesses, but either way I think, you know, I think we're gaining share on them significantly. I think, you know, Craig's not gonna want us to be 50% of the market two years, he's just not. And so he's going to have to figure out how to identify how to think. That brought more broadly about, about that market trend. He talked about it on stage today about how does he calculate the AI impact and the other pieces now the process mining now that now that we are integrating process mining into RPA, right? >>It's strategic component of that. How does that also involve the market? So I think you have both the expansion and the plot product portfolio, which drives it. And then you have the fact that customers are going to add more automations at faster pace and more robots and that's where the expansion really kicks in. And we often say, you know, look as a, as a, as a, as a company that, you know, one day we'll be public company, our ARR numbers. Very important. We do openly transparently share that. But you know, the other big metric will be, you know, dollar based net expansion rate that shows really how customers are expanding. I think that, I know it, our numbers, we haven't shared it yet. I know all the SAS companies, the top 10 I can tell you, you know we're higher than all of them. >>The market projections are low. And I think he knows it well. >> Speaking of Tam, and when we, I saw this with, with service now, now service now the core was it right? So the, the ROI was not as obvious with, with, with you guys, you're touching business process. And so, so in David Flory are way, way back, did an analysis of service and now he said, wow, the Tam is way being way under counted by everybody. That wall street analyst Gardner, it feels like the same here because there are so many adjacencies and just talk to the customers and you're seeing that the Tam could be enormous, much bigger than the whatever 16 billion a Daniel show, the other Danielson tangles, the guy's balls. He said, Oh that's 16 billion. That's you. I pass this data. And you know, we laugh, but I'm, I'm like listening. Say I wonder if he's serious cause this guy thinks big. >>I mean, who would've thought that he'd be at this point by now? And you're just getting started? Well, I think, you know, one thing I think is, you know, we're, we're, you know, we were a little bit kind of over a little less humble when we talked about things like valuation over the last few years. We were trying to show this market's real, you know, we want to now focus more on outcomes and things get a little less from around those numbers. And I think that shows the evolution of a company's maturity, um, that we, I think we're going through right now. Uh, you know, the outcomes of, you know, Walmart on stage saying, you know, their first robot that was, this was, this was two years ago, delivered 360,000 hours of capacity for them in, in, in, in, in HR, right? That, you know, I think those, that's where we're gonna be focused because the reality is if we can deliver these big outcomes and continue them and we can go company-wide deliver on the robot for every, every, every, every person, then you know, the numbers follow along with it. >>Well we saw some M and a this week as well, which again leads me to the larger Tam cause we had PD on, um, with Rudy and you can start to see how, okay now we're going to actually move into that vision that the guy from PepsiCo laid out this, this fabric of this automation fabric across the organization. So M and a is, is a part of that as well. That starts to open up new Tam. Opportunity does. And I think, you know, a process mind is a great example of a market that is pretty well known in Europe, not so much in the U S um, and there are really only a few players in that, in that market today. Look, we're going to do what we did in RPA. We're going to do the same thing. You're process mining. We're going to just say anything we're doing in it, not as democratization, you'll our strategy will be to go mass market with these technologies, make it very easy for accessibility for every single person in the case of process mining, every business analyst to be able to mind their processes for them and, and ultimately that flows through to drive faster implementations and then faster, faster outcomes. >>I think our approach, again, our approach to the business users, our approach to democratization, um, you know it's very different than our competitors. A lot of these low code companies, I won't name a number cause I don't remember our partners here at our conference. They're IT-focused their services heavy and, and you know, their growth rates I'll be at okay are 30% year over year in this market. That shouldn't be the case at all. I mean we're a 200 plus a year. We are still and we've got big numbers and we have a whole different approach to the market. I don't think people have figured it out yet, Dave. Exactly, exactly. The strategy behind which is, which is when you have business users, subject matter experts and citizen developers that can access our technology and build automations quickly and deliver value proof for their company. And you do that in mass scale. >>Right. And then you will now allow with our apps for your end users, I get a call center to engage with a robot as part of their daily operation that none of the other it vendors who are all kind of conventional thinking and that's not, our models are very different, which I think shows in our numbers and and, and the growth rates. Yeah. Well you bet on simplicity early on. In fact, when you join you iPad, you challenged me so you have some of your Wiki bond analysts go out. I remember head download our stuff and then try to download the competitors and they'll tell us, you know how easy it as well we were able to download UI path. We, we built some simple automations. We couldn't get ahold of the other other, other companies products we tried. We were told we'll go to the reseller or how much did you have to spend and okay so you bet on simplicity, which was interesting because Daniel last night kind of admitted, look, he tracked the audience. >>He said thank you for taking a chance on us because frankly a couple of years ago this wasn't fully baked right and and so, so I want to talk about last, the last topic is sort of one of the things Craig talked about was consolidation and I've been saying that all week and said this, this market is going to consolidate. You guys are a leader now you've got to get escape velocity cause the leader makes a lot of money and becomes, gets big. The number two does. Okay, number three man, everybody else and the big guys are starting to jump in as well. You saw SAP, you know, makes an announcement and you guys are specialists and so your thoughts on hitting escape velocity, I wouldn't say you're quite there yet. I want to see more on the ecosystem. There's maybe, who knows, maybe there's an IPO coming. I've predicted that there is, but your thoughts on achieving escape velocity and some of the metrics around there, whether it's customer adoption penetration, what are your thoughts? >>Yeah, I mean we definitely don't have a timetable on an IPO, but we have investors, public investors and VCs that at some point are going to want, this is the reality of how, of how it works. Right. Um, you know, I think the, uh, you know, I think the numbers to focus right now are on around, you know, customer outcomes. I think the ecosystem is a good one. Right? You know, we have, I'd say the biggest ecosystem for us to date has been the SAP ecosystem. When we look at our advisory board members, for others, that's really where, where the action is. Supply chain management, ERP, you know, certainly CRM and others, we don't have a view that, so our competitors have, but we have chosen not to take money from our, from ecosystem companies because we don't, our customers here are building processes, all the automation across ecosystems. >>Right? So you know, we don't want to go bet on say just one like Salesforce or Workday. We want to help them across all the ecosystem now. So I think it's a little bit of a different strategy there. Look, I think the interesting thing is the SAP is the world. They bought a small company in France called contexture. They're trying to do this themselves. Microsoft, Microsoft didn't in Mark Benioff and Salesforce are asked on every earnings call now what are you doing for RPA? So they've got pressure. So maybe they invest in one of our competitors or maybe they, you'll take flow in Microsoft and expanded. I think we can't move fast enough because you know, I don't know if Microsoft has, I mean they're a great sponsor by the way. So I don't want to only be careful we swept with what I say. But you know, strategically speaking, these larger companies operate in 18 months, 12 1824 months kind of planning cycles. >>If he did that, he will never keep up with us. There's no one at any of our traditional large enterprise software companies that ever would have bet that we would come out and say that the best way to build applications right to solve problems will be through RPA. Either there'll be a layer on top of all their technologies that makes it easier than ever for business users to build applications and solve problems, that's going to scare them to death. Why? Because you don't have to move all your legacy systems anymore. Yes, you've got tons of databases, but guess what? Don't worry about it. Leave him alone. Stop spending money on ridiculous upgrades right now. Just build a new layer and I'm telling you I there. As they figured this out, they're going to keep looking back and say, Oh my God, why didn't we know? >>Why did we know there's it looked I hopefully we could all partner. We're going to try to go down that route, but there's something much bigger going on here and they haven't figured it out. Well, the SAP data is very interesting to me that I'm starting to connect the dots. I just did a piece on my breaking analysis and SAP, they thank you. They, they've acquired 31 companies over the last nine years, right? And they've not bit the bullet on integration the way Oracle had to with fusion. Right? And so as a result, there's this, they say throw everything into HANA. It's a memory that's not going to work from an integration standpoint, right? Automation is actually a way to connect, you know, the glue across all those disparate systems, right? And so that makes a lot of sense that you're having success inside SAP and there's no reason that can't continue. >>Why there's, you know, there's a number of major kind of trends we've outlined here. One of, uh, we call human in the loop. And you know, today, you know, when each, when an unattended robot could actually stop a process and instead of sending the exception to a, an it person who monitoring, say, orchestrator actually go to an inbox, a task and box of that business user in a call center or wherever, and that robot can go do something else because it's so, so efficient and productive. But once that human has to solve that problem, right, that robot or a robot will take that back on and keep going. This human and robot interaction, it doesn't exist today and we know we're rolling that out in our UI path apps. I think you know that that's kind of mind blowing and then when you add a, I can't go too far into our roadmap and strategy or when you added the app programming layer and you add data science, that's a little bit of a hint into where we're going because we're open and transparent. >>Our data science connection, it's, it's this platform here, this kind of, I'd like to still call it all RPA. I think that that's a good thing, but the reality is this platform does Tam. What it can do is nothing like it was a year ago and it won't be like where it is today. A year from now you've got the tiger by the tail, Bobby, you got work to do, but congratulations on all the success. It's really been great to be able to document this and cover it, so thanks for coming on the cube. Thank you. All right. Thank you for watching everybody back with our next guest. Right after this short break, you're watching the cube live from UI path forward three from Bellagio in Vegas right back.

>> Narrator: From Burlingame, California, it's theCUBE, covering Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019! Brought to you by Sumo Logic. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at Sumo Logic Illuminate at the Hyatt Regency, San Francisco Airport. Our second year here, about a thousand people, third year of the conference, a really good vibe. You know I think some of these cases where the marketers really come to Sumo Logic in terms of data and data monitoring, and there's so many applications that are business and security, and operations. We're excited to have our next guest. He is Lior Mechlovich. He's an architect at Informatica. Lior, great to see you. >> Great to see you, too. >> Absolutely, so you said you've been coming to this for a couple years, just kind of general impressions as it's grown. >> Sure, it's my third year, it's grown very nicely. Always exciting. I think there's a very nice vibe to this conference. I always learn new things so we've been with Sumo for more than four years now for Informatica. And excited as always. >> Yeah, and we've been covering the Informatica show. I think we've looked it up, since 2015 so, we've been doing a lot of work and you guys are right in the heart of this whole data thing, >> Right. >> And you been part of the kind of migration from pretty much pure on-prem, to Cloud. There's rush to public Cloud, and then now kind of this Hybrid model. So you kind of look at the data perspective you know, what's kind of your take as this thing has evolved over the last several years? >> Sure, so we have been around for 26 years. I think building a lot of on-pram, data platforms for being the enterprise Cloud data management that Informatica sells with basically getting your data inside our outside the organization from Clouds, on-pram, or whatever integration pattern you have and we decided four or five years ago to be a Cloud-first company and migrated most of our products to be on Cloud to provide them as a service. And for us, it was a huge journey, we needed to take some offering that we had in the Cloud, some products, and really revamp and building a new microscopic architecture and then slowly migrate all the customers. It took us over a year to make that. We currently run on all three Cloud providers. And really using Sumo mentoring tools to really understand the impact that we have on our customers during this migration. It was a very successful. They hardly noticed that-- >> Oh good. >> Only the nice UI, but they hardly noticed the problems. I mean we really changed a lot of things. >> What is some of the things you learned in that process that you can apply now with just some of your customers in terms of data migration and operating in a Cloud situation versus a traditional data center? >> Sure, so I would definitely highlight the need to be able to roll back and the need to always keep really good money to working it and understanding how the end user getting impacted. And so we really kept that in mind. Everything we do try do always do it side by side, and then when we migrate we're really sure that it is successful and there's no impact on the customer. So I think that's definitely too, harshly monitored everything and be able to roll back when you need to, because you will need to at some point. >> But the rollback is funny, because it use to be you had you know the release cadence was significantly slower than now. And now you've got all these kind of micro pushes that are going on multiple times a day. >> Yeah. >> So how does that impact kind of keeping that safety net? That rollback safety net? >> So it's interesting. So we actually don't deploy that many times a day. Where we can really impact the customer so we deploy the things that are not customer urgent impacting production more, but still the really heavy productions of the thrilling part of the customer; we try to minimize that and make it very customer aware okay. >> So basically they choose their own windows of maintenance and all that. But our customers again hospitals, all kinds of very important, then we are in charge of the data byte in those places. So we don't want to just push whatever we can. We really cannot take that, even a rollback of 1%, it can be very bad so we're a bit more conservative models of deployments, but actually that means we put a lot of effort in our monitoring. What is going on doing those deployments. >> Right. All right, so what are the big trends that happen? I mean containers have been around for awhile, but we really saw kind of the rise of containers in terms of the popular consciousness with Docker couple three or four years ago, and then a couple years ago the Cooper 90's coming in for the orchestration. From your point of view how had those things impacted your world, and how you do your job, and take care of your customers? >> Sure, so for us Cubernetics is really a great opportunity to standardize the way that we deploy across different products. So we have our platform, but we have also different products; different people across the globe. We're a very multi-globe organization, and to get a standard like Cubernetics to help us standardize to get more releases, more stable environments that really solves a lot of problems, because we had this migration that I talked about really left us with a lot of clusters across the globe, different time zones. It was really hard to standardize on the pipelines, and to deploy to really minimize the problems that we give to the end user at the end. >> So we really took that opportunity to use Cubernetics, to use containers to minimize the difference it has from the developer machine all the way to production. To automate the most we can so when it's really is excelling in this. Yeah, so that's where we really... took those containers apart. Today we are in migrating, so not all of that, but we truly see the benefits of standardization, of immutable infrastructure as that key component for us. >> This is just so great, because you have such a longitudinal point of view having been in. The company's been at it for awhile, and you've been at the company for awhile. So another topic I'd love to get your thought is just kind of this exponential explosion of data. I mean it would be curious not to know the numbers, but kind of the scale of data in which you guys are dealing with for you customers, and how that has changed over the last several years before you even really factor in IOT, and this next kind of machine to machine explosion? >> So we definitely see that explosion of data. It's not just the explosion. It's also the different types, and where data has been on-prem, now moving to Cloud. Where do people want to run off all those work loads? As of course a lot of feedback for us as well need to support all the Cloud providers when we use to do a lot of Hadoop on-prem, right? It's all changed now too. >> All the Cloud providers, the data it's theirs. So the data move, data locality is a big thing, Now we need to run all those things on the Cloud. So, I don't remember the exact numbers. I guess we're doing something of 2.5 billion transactions a month for like number of records that we serve. That being we usually just see more work loads, more people, more use cases for onboarding more data from Cloud applications. The data became more dispersed not just more data, but the sources has become like everybody needs to integrate Salesforce or Workday with their on-prem that gives unique opportunities for this kind of data. >> Well, it's funny when you talk about the workloads, because it always use to be, do you bring the workload to the data or the data to the workload, and a knock on the Cloud is that you got to get all the data into the Cloud, and pay for the transport of the data. And there's data gravity that said once you have it in a central location like that the opportunity to put applications against that data is much much higher than if you're bringing the data to the application. You see and how are customers taking advantage of that opportunity? >> So for sure we saw they did that move to the Cloud. When we started from on naked Cloud 10 years ago our entire model was hybrid, so we can stick around on-prem, because the data was on-prem, and since then our hybrid model that you still run both on-prem and on Cloud, you can see the change right? You can see more of our agents. We have an agent based architecture to really being deployed much more on easy 2's, on AKS or whatever to run those workloads in the Cloud. >> Right, but I would imagine the number of workloads applied to each data set now have increased significantly, because now it's in that central repository. >> Yes, and definitely you can see those data legs being built, and mostly in the Cloud. That gives unique opportunity. >> So just get your perspective after a couple days here. I know you haven't been here for a couple of days. We're just getting started at this show. What does Sumo Logic bring to you and your team? What does it enable you to do that you couldn't otherwise do? Why are you happy to be a customer of Sumo? >> Sure, so four and foremost it's the democratization of data. I really like to say that internally. In an organization that's spread across the globe, really sharing insides based on data, it's very important. When you have many R&D centers that can just send this summary; send the data and show people what they mean saves so much time, and so we use it across. We use the customer success, product management to understand feature being used, SRE's, developers. All of those really can communicate based on data. In this Microsoft Office tool you cannot do it without that. You cannot do it without linking, because the different products that we onboard on the platform will not be able to communicate effectively without that. So that's very important, and giving that landing pages dashboard templates for onboarded services to have this kind of standard to follow to monitor how to operate that's very important for us. >> That's great. Go ahead. I'm sorry I interrupted you. >> Sorry, and the key place that we brought Sumo in is basically for instant management. So how to understand when something doesn't work just to try to understand the blast radius, which products are impacted. We have a variety of products, so just in minutes we minimize that in four hours to minutes trying to understand what exactly is going on. Who's impacted to update the customer  and all that. >> I love the part you talked about the democratization, because again I talk about it all the time, and I'll talk about it again, but to drive innovation in a company I think such a key piece of it is to enable more people to have more information, and the tools to manipulate that information, so they see opportunities to make improvements here, there, and otherwise and it sounds like you guys are really using it for that. >> Definitely. Definitely. >> In this case. >> You know when you get some people that you never knew that even though we have a customer support guys that did some crazy dash wars that we had no idea it's possible even, and they really getting chance to work with customers better to really tell the customer, "Oh, you just did that and that. "Maybe you'll try this option." And we found that even communicating, and really minimize the time it takes for them to figure out what's going on that it's been really impactful. >> With no call to It to help (laughs). >> And it was never the intent, so we wanted to allow dev's and off's to operate, and all of a sudden you're getting customer support without even telling them. >> Good, well Lior thanks for sharing your story and really appreciate you taking the time. >> Thank you. >> All right, he's Lior. I'm Jeff. You're watching theCube. We are at Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (upbeat techno music)

>> From New York City, it's theCUBE covering Automation Anywhere Imagine. Brought to you by Automation Anywhere. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Midtown, Manhattan at the Automation Anywhere Imagine 2019 Conference. Our second time back. There's a lot of buzz in the air. You can probably see it over my shoulder and we're excited to have a partner on who's just starting their adventure with Automation Anywhere. She's Cay Gliebe, the senior vice-president of marketing and product management for OneSource Virtual. Cay, great to see you. >> Thanks Jeff. I'm very happy to be here talking to you, thank you so much. >> So, before we jump in, give us a background on OneSource Virtual for people who aren't familiar with the company. >> Sure. OneSource Virtual is really designed to help those customers who have purchased Workday for either their HR finance needs to get services, so if they need the platform implemented or they want to outsource their payroll, or their AP Automation, OneSource Virtual's their company. >> Okay. So, a lot of conversations about Workday as an important partnership I know for the Automation Anywhere folks, but you said you're kind of just getting started on this RPA journey, so I wonder if you can tell a little bit about how did you kind of happen stance on the category and why you think it's important and then how did you get connected with Automation Anywhere? >> Right. Yep, so, we had been looking all of last year really at how do we augment the automation that our company is really based on. So, we have a premise; we have some very core patented technology called Atmosphere that allows us to serve the Workday customer. And we know there are new solutions out there; robotics being one of them. We felt that it was the next, natural place for us to look and so, we started looking and then we said, let's go! And we really think about this in three different ways. One, we're a company first and foremost like everybody else out there, so we want to be able to bring robotic process automation to our own corporate functions. Then, we're a business. We have a product; our product happens to be delivering services and it's right for doing more digital automation. And third, we had a new idea regarding robotic process as a service and we want to be able to offer this digital worker in a fully hosted and maintain model where the customer can just subscribe to it rather than having to do all the investment themselves. >> Right. So, you said you signed the paper January 1. We're now at April 16th and you've just been house of fire, going bananas. >> We have been going crazy. We have engaged customers and partners and advisors. We've been talking to the analysts. We've been working internally, so it's been a very fast and furious four months getting going. >> So, I'm curious on the internal side before we kind of talk about the customer and the offering side. How's the implementation going internally? What are some of the things you're targeting to get started to get some early wins? I wonder if you can share some advice to other people that might be in your shoes thinking about bringing that in internally. >> Sure. We're looking at our services category first, so most important to us is to be able to deliver consistent, high quality services to our customers. Just like any other company and because we know that these are the same services that customers might buy, it makes sense to look at, for example, payroll. When you think about payroll services for a company, you're processing their payroll, you're auditing the data, you're doing a variety of things. Well, what about a payroll auditor who can be your assistant in our own company to help you deliver the services to your customer? We estimate this can probably save us about five FTEs based on our current usage-- >> Five FTEs? >> Not that we will get rid of those employees again; this is about providing assistant to the people that we have and for us, it's all about being able to grow without having to invest in as many people as we might have had to do in the past. The second thing is, you know, everybody wants margin. That's how you stay in business and can you improve the margins on the services that you're delivering? >> Right. So, I'm just curious. I think the whole RPA conversations was reframed a little bit this morning in the keynote. Not so much as the substitution for a person, but really an augment for a person just like a mobile phone is. Just like a laptop is. Just like all the other software tools are that we use. I wonder if you that's what you're seeing and you know, are people basically saddling up with their personal digital assistant as kind of a one-to-one or is it kind of a departmental? How is this thing kind of operating in the environment? >> We absolutely see it as a digital, an assistant to you. It is not, ideally, it's not a one-to-one replacement or a one-to-one assignment within the organization. The more we can make the digital worker cover multiple functions, then the more valuable it is. And because of our services side, that absolutely is the case. We have over 600 Workday customers now that we provide service to and so, we can take what maybe 30 people are doing and we can provide them all the same access to that worker for their customers that they're assigned to. >> So, have you already started to deliver these to your customers or are you still in the early days? >> Well, we have the first four developed and we're going to beta with five different customers next week. >> Do they have funny names or just regular names? >> We don't have names for them at all. We've been very pragmatic at this point, so I do have to go back to the team and see if maybe we liven it up or get some ideas from our customers. >> Yeah, you have to have funny names or they won't put them on the wall right? >> Exactly. >> Now, I'm curious. So the third leg that you talked about was really offering RPA as a service clearly Workday is SaaS product, people are used to buying software and services now in that way. Is that hard to implement? Is it a repackage of what the Automation Anywhere people have or is this kind of a new flavor that you're co-developing with them or is it just simply kind of a go-to-market strategy? >> So, I would say a couple of things: one, everything that we do internally for a customer in our services side, we potentially could sell to another Workday customer that does it internally for themselves. So, instead of having to think about recreating and developing the same worker twice, we really can leverage it internally and then we can look at those customers who maybe they don't want to outsource their payroll department. They want to do it internally for whatever reason. They have the same challenges we have and it makes sense for them to be able to get access to the worker. So, I don't know that I can say is it hard or easy yet. We're such early stages, but we've created a portal, we have a way, we've worked through how we're going to set this up and at this point we're waiting for the results from the beta to come through. I can tell you that I have about 17 customers on our advisory board that all want it right now. Like when we showed them the demo, they're like: Can I buy it right now? >> Right now, right. So I was going to say, what are some of the lessons, surprises, as you've gone through this very, very short journey that you didn't expect or easier than you thought, harder than you thought? What are some of the unintended consequences, if you will of moving forward? >> Yeah. It's not about just doing one task, okay? It's very easy to create the one task and the robot that will do the one task. What's not so easy is to create a lot of tasks. So, then you need experts who understand the process, who can document the process. Then people to develop it. Then you want to test it. Then you have to make sure your delivery mechanism can be accessed by the people that you intend to have use it. And I think those are things that we thought through. We're working on where are the problems. Things that we know are actually going to be a bigger issue is for customers who buy in the R pass model, how do they feel about this security? There's this big fear of this digital worker and the reality is they don't hold data. All they do is perform a task that a person was going to do. They are less likely to ever know the data that a person will. A person could potentially remember what they saw. >> Right, right. >> The digital worker will never remember what they saw. >> Probably never get disgruntled. >> Not get disgruntled. They don't get married. They don't get divorced. All those things that get in our way of focusing on our work. >> So, do you see this potentially as an adjunct offering for basically everyone who's using your core services? >> Absolutely everyone using our services and any customer who is using Workday. I've talked to a customer, for example, who is based out of Europe. They absolutely are interested in how we can apply this for their HR function on a global basis. So, there are a number of scenarios to consider. >> Did you go into the store? Were there any bots in the store that were ready-made that you guys used or are you developing them all yourself? >> Right now, we're developing ourselves, but we're talking to about Automation Anywhere, of course, about how do we partner together? Workday is a partner of both of us and we want to make sure that we're bringing the right solutions based on that mutual interest. >> Right because you can potentially sell your bots in the store as well to it. >> Correct. >> Right. >> Correct. >> So, Cay, last question. Just to get your impressions of the show here, you've been here for a little while. It's quite a buzz going on. I don't know what other shows, I'm sure you go to Workday, a big Workday event. Kind of give people a general feel of what's happening here in Midtown this week. >> You know, this is the most exciting show and it's mostly exciting; people are loving. You can come build a bot, you can see what other people are creating, you can learn from many customers who are going down this path and journey and might be at the same stage you're at or they could be further down the path and help you really understand what you should be looking at. So, the connection and the networking and the way that the whole Automation Anywhere team brings everyone together is fantastic. >> Awesome. >> It's a great event. >> Well, love your enthusiasms. I think you're going to be very successful with this-- >> I hope so. >> with this opportunity. Alright Cay, well thanks for taking a few minutes of your day and best to you and the team in moving forward. >> Okay, thank you Jeff. >> Alright. She's Cay, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE. We're at Automation Anywhere Imagine 2019. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (bright music)

(funky music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Rick here with theCUBE, we're having a CUBE conversation in the studio, we're just about ready to hit the crazy wave that is the conference season, so it's great to still have some time to do some studio stuff before we hit the road. We're excited to have a new guest who's never been on theCUBE before, he's Danial Hazariki, the CMO of Reflektive. Danial, great to meet you. >> Great to meet you. >> So you guys are working in a cool space, kind of the new age HR management for lack of a better term. We've had Patty Mccord on before, who obviously was seminal in kind of the Netflix culture, which I think was pretty early days in kind of saying throw out traditional annual reviews, kind of throw out regulations around expense reports, throw out a lot of these traditional mechanisms to manage people and really say what are we managing people to? And we should be giving them feedback on a regular basis and we really need to kind of bring this into the modern era. And that's smack in the middle of what you guys do. >> Absolutely yeah, a big part of what we do is managing employees to be high-performing, and that's the big tagline for her, is high-performance culture. I think it's critical to have, as part of that, a more active and ongoing role with your employees. That's why they can do things like remove expense report guidelines, because they know we're on the pulse of whether this person is actually performing or not, and by knowing that, we can have faith that we trust them, that they'll do the right thing when it comes to deciding on what they spend on. So, I think we sit right at the center of this, and we're really excited to be a part of it. >> So let's back up a little bit and just give everyone kind of the 411 on Reflektive. >> Absolutely. >> How many people are you, how long you been around, some of the basics. >> Yeah, so we were founded in late 2014, we have three co-founders, Rajeev Behera, Erick Tai, and Jimmie Tyrell. They more or less were actually people managers themselves, they realized that this was a gap in managing workforces, and, you know, classic model of technical founder, and then more of a product percent, and they got together and built this really cool tool. >> So what was the big hole? 'Cause there's a ton of HR applications out there. There's big ones like WorkDay, you know, who's been very successful on the SAAS model. What did they see that was the big hole, even though there's all these huge traditional HR applications? >> Absolutely, yeah, so what happened was there's a five-ish year old burst into framework, they talk about this. Systems and engagement, and systems of record. And so these tools that you mention, they were great at helping catalog what happens in a business, and do all the compliance processes required. But what happened was the world changed, things in terms of social media, the way people were getting information, the pace of things accelerated quite a bit, and these tools struggled to handle the day to day and didn't live where people worked, and those are big gaps. So they saw this and said okay well, there's something here where we can go and insert ourselves in the flow of people's work and help them actually get the information they need to be high-performing. >> So, was the entry point the annual review? What was kind of the entry point to get people to think about HR in a different way and to adopt the technology? >> Yeah, I think that ultimately, there is some form of review that happens, and they built that functionality. What was really interesting to the market was actually their concept of realtime feedback, and building the mechanisms by which you could actually bring that into that platform, and actually factor that in when you're doing interviews. This eliminates things like recency bias, things that, hey, a review is happening at the end of the year, I'm going to remember what happened the last three months. I'm not going to remember that you killed it in March of that year. So we're helping solve for that, and they saw great results doing that. >> Right, so you've got all types of little apps, is the right word, solutions, or kind of activities that enable people both as the employee as well as the manager as well as the HR people, to have kind of this ongoing back and forth relationship. So I wondered if you could dive into some of those applications and what's working really well that's different than things used to be? >> Yeah, so the modern kind of version of what we do, 'cause things have changed much over the past few years, we have a core kind of performance management offering, we also have an engagement offering, and we also have a people intelligence offering, and these are the three pillars by which we kind of enable all of those people that you just talked about. And so when we go back to the performance piece, there's many different components, but we believe that employees need feedback in the moment, they need a way to also do annual reviews. They need a way to set goals and be clear with their manager in what those are and what progress is. And we also believe that those things have to exist in the flow of day to day work, and that's why we do things like have a Slack integration, integrate with Gmail, Outlook, all these different kind of places where people actually live day to day. Then, you know, the other layers that I spoke about are engagement. We like to be able to do broad surveys to companies and get a pulse on high level, what is the emotion out there, how are people feeling about management? How are people feeling about even the snacks in the kitchen? Simple stuff like that. >> Right. >> And then, last but not least, all of that information has to feed into somewhere so that the management of an organization can get the insights they need to make decisions, and that's where the people intelligence comes in. >> Okay, so there's a lot of different layers to the story. But the one when I was first preparing for this interview, I'm like, oh my goodness, you were right, another tool, another desktop app, I forget what the statistics are of all the tabs that we have open with our sales force and Outlook and all these things are open. But you guys took an interesting approach, 'cause you actually integrated with some of the apps that you presume I have open like Slack, as opposed to kind of forcing me to have that one more tab. How does that work, and how has that kind of impacted adoption? >> Totally, yeah, I mean this is where the foundations of our company kind of come into play. So, our founders came from mobile applications, and games specifically. So they know how to optimize for things like active users daily, monthly, all that, right? And taking that lends to what they said. Okay, we really do need to encourage adoption, how do we make that happen? To your point, too many tools are open. Some are required to do your job, like email. Others are kind of optional. We're honest with ourselves, we say, hey, we're in the optional category, how do we solve for that? How do we still get people to use this? So we said okay, we're going to plug ourselves into Slack, where people actually communicate day to day. We're going to show up in Gmail, we're going to show up in Outlook, we're going to go to all these different places where people are already working. We actually even integrate with Jira, the engineering tool. And we said that's the way we'll actually get the information into our system that we need, and then we can service all those insights I talked about. >> Is it a popup, is it some encouragement when I do some activity, say, with you on a project? Oh Jeff, by the way, do you have any feedback for Danial? Oh Jeff, by the way, somebody's looking for feedback on Danial, how does the mechanics work, and then what have you seen in terms of adoption? What works and what doesn't work? >> Yeah, I mean it definitely gets traction, because I think specifically Slack, we're a Silicon Valley company, a lot of our earlier customers were Silicon Valley companies, and they all use Slack. >> It's as the way you said, very familiar. >> There you go right, so I think from that perspective, it's really easy to use. You can see all the active recognition, for example, happening in your company and in channel, you can also go and input recognition for other people, write there at mention, and just kind of invoke that. >> So are they kind of channels then within Slack around- >> Recognition can be a channel, but the actual input of feedback, it can do that right from the beginning of our, yeah. >> So interesting to talk about feedback versus recognition. How does that play out in the real world? 'Cause those are two very different words and two very different motivations. >> You bring up a great, great point, and it's an ongoing debate, how do you name these two different things? Frankly, recognition to the broader market ends up being, more or less, positive feedback that you feel like you want to put a public stamp on. But there's an important distinction here, because there's also negative feedback, and there's also just feedback that people want to give that's positive, but they don't necessarily want to share that with the entire world, or with a broader organization. So we wanted to create a safe space for them to be able to do that in every single use case, and so that's where the delineation between recognition and feedback comes in, is that you can go public, private, public and also broadcast to the whole company, and we wanted to give people the avenue to do all those things. >> Right, so I want to shift gears a little bit and talk about goals and goal management, and how does that kind of module work and or how does that tie back to some of the corporate goals and corporate initiatives? Can you tie it back to your Jira project and are these things integrated, or is it kind of a stand alone, and does it operate like an annual goal or a quarterly goal? How does that piece of it work? >> So the way we find the highest performance cultures doing this is they do kind of adjust goals on an ongoing basis. Ideally quarterly, I think that's kind of the favored happy medium right now. And that does start with company level goals. Then it goes to departmental, then it goes to individual, or sub team goals. And all of these people have, you can do smart goals, you can do objectives and key results, you can do whatever format you want, and it's pretty flexible as a platform. But all of that cascades down, and you can coordinate between people, and get visibility of public goals, private goals, and that's part of our whole commitment to transparency on the platform. >> And in terms of your customers and their adoption at a corporate level, not necessarily an individual, is it more of a stick or is it more of a carrot? Are people figuring out that they need to change, and yours is a tool to give them an avenue to the new way, or is it kind of new and provocative, and we've been doing annual reviews since my dad's dad's dad, I'm not quite sure about this ongoing thing. What's kind of the reception, and how is the market changing? >> Totally, like with anything, either tech adoption life cycle, a lot of our early adopters have just picked up on the fact that the market for talent is extremely competitive now, and some have gotten to different maturity levels in understanding what they need to do to deal with that. Our earliest adopters, they just got it right away. They said our workforce is asking for more in the moment feedback, they want to know what their goals are clearly, and be able to measure against them and be able to go and point back, hey, I actually achieved that, or I did not. And so that has helped us a lot with the earlier adopters, just saying we built something that's ideally suited to the way you need to evolve. Part of the task of any innovative technology is we have to go educate the market, too. We know that universally, people are struggling to attain talent, what we do to educate them is inform them of here's actually what the workforce is looking for. We've done a ton of research, HBR articles, we've seen gallop research, we've signed all sorts of stuff that tells you the world has changed, the workforce is expecting certain things, and we've built something around those needs. And so the more we do our job as marketing to make sure the market understands that, I think the more reflective we'll see success. >> That's funny, in one of Patty's recent medium posts, she talks about foosball tables, and billiard tables, it's like that's not what drives employee happiness and satisfaction. They look good, I guess, on the tour before you take the job, but a lot of other things, that drive, happiness and retention in the super competitive market that's not the ping pong table. >> Absolutely, especially in the case of Patty Mccord, I mean, she's indexing everything, again, around, you want to have the highest-performing people stay, and you don't necessarily care to actively manage the ones who are not. And what she has espoused many times is that the highest performing people actually love this. They love that there's transparency around the business value they're driving. They love to know exactly where they stand, they love to have feedback so they can improve and be better, and so you can see how there's a lot of parallels here about what she's talking about that high performing cultures do, and what the platform that we've built enables. >> Right, what about the pesky lawyers that are always saying there's always compliance issues, and we're still operating off of laws that were established before, and this is a little bit funky and we're not really sure how to deal with it. >> Yeah, what I've actually found is, there are specific customers, even of a size of Air BnB who will highlight that we helped them combat bias, and the way we do this, and evidence that they are not biased in the way they do reviews. And the way we do this, is I think ultimately, the concept of real time feedback. Because this stuff is being logged as it's happening, no one can say it's the end of the year now, and you just remember what happened in the past few months. You're ignoring all my great work that happened before that. This is not fair, that recency bias they call is eliminated. And that actually, in the end, helps with the lawyers, because we can say this was all cataloged in the moment as opposed to way later. >> Right, we have to train among contract year concept, you're supposed to turn it up the last month so they forget about the crappy stuff you did earlier in the year and do well. So Dan, before I let you go, you've been around a little while, you've been in the valley, you've been at a number of startups, you've been here for about a year, I'm just curious kind of as you've come to Reflektive and been there now. What was the biggest surprise entering this company that you didn't necessarily expect now that you've been there for a little bit? >> Yeah, I think what was most interesting and actually kind of exciting was to observe how similar the transformation that HR is going through right now is to the transformation that marketing went through 10 years ago. I'm seeing the movement to being more data driven to getting active information on how campaigns are running, all this stuff. That evolution is happening in HR right now, I'm seeing more and more people scientists, I'm seeing more and more people who are turning people management into a science, and I think a lot of it has to do with record low unemployment. The market for labor got so competitive that people have really started paying attention to this as a problem and trying to understand better outside of just simple compliance things. How can we actually actively manage our workforce into being high performing and happier? And that's really interesting for me. >> Awesome, well thanks for taking a few minutes out of your day and sharing the story. >> Absolutely. >> All right. He's Danial, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're having a CUBE conversation in our Palo Alto studios, we'll see you next time, thanks for watching. (funky music)

>> From the SiliconANGLE media office, in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the CUBE. Now, here's your host, Stu Miniman. Hi, CUBE nation, I'm Sam Kahane. Thanks for watching the CUBE. Due to popular demand from the community, I will be interviewing the legendary Stu Miniman, here today. He is S-T-U on Twitter. Stu and I are going to be digging in to the 2019 predictions, and also recapping 2018 for you here. So, Stu, let's get into it a little bit. 2018, can you set the stage? How many events did you go to? How many interviews did you conduct? >> Boy, Sam, it's tough to look back. We did so much with the CUBE this year. I, personally, did over 20 shows, and somewhere between 400 and 450 interviews, out of, we as a team did over a 100 shows, over 2000 interviews. So, really great to be in the community, and immerse ourselves, drink from the fire hose, and some of the data. (laughs) >> So, over 400 interviews this year, that's amazing. What about some of the key learnings from 2018? Yeah, Sam,my premise when I'm going out is, how are we maturing? My background, as you know, Sam, I'm an infrastructure guy. My early training was in networking. I worked on virtualization, and I've been riding this wave of cloud for about the last 10 years. So, about two years ago, it was, software companies, how are they living in these public clouds? Amazon, of course, the dominant player in the marketplace, but we know it will be a multi-cloud world. And the update, for 2018, is we've gone from, how do I live in those public clouds, to how are we maturing? We call it hybrid clouds, or multi-cloud, but living between these worlds. We saw the rise in Kubernetes, as a piece of it, but customers have lots of environments, and how they get their arms around that, is a serious challenge out there, today. So, how are the suppliers and communities, and the systems integration, helping customers with this really challenging new environment, that we have today. >> I'd love to hear any OMG moments from you. What surprised you the most this year? >> It's interesting, when I wanna think about some of the big moves in the industry, I mean, we had the largest software acquisition in tech history. IBM, the company you used to work for, Sam, buying Red Hat, a company I've worked with, for about 20 years, for 34 billion dollars. I mean, Red Hat has been the poster child for open source, and the exemplar of that. It was something that was like, wow, this is a big deal. We've been talking for a long time, how important developers are, and how important open source is, and there's nothing like seeing Big Blue, a 107-year-old company, putting in huge dollars, to really, not just validate, cause IBM's been working in open source, working with Linux for a long time, but how important this is to the future. And that sits right at that core of that multi-cloud world. Red Hat wants to position itself to live in a lot of those environments, not just for Linux, but the Middleware, Kubernetes is a big play. We saw a number of acquisitions in the space there. Red Hat bought CoreOS for $250 million. VMware bought Heptio, and was kind of surprised, at the sticker shock, $550 million. Great team, we know the Heptio team well. We talked to them, some of the core people, back when they were at Google. But, some big dollars are being thrown around, in this space, and, as you said, the big one in the world is Amazon. One of the stories that everybody tracked all year was the whole hq2 thing. It kind of struck me as funny, as Amazon is in Seattle. I actually got to visit Seattle, for the first time, this year, and somebody told me, if you look at the top 50 companies that have employees in Seattle, of course, Amazon is number one, but you need to take number two through 43, and add them together, to make them as big as Amazon. Here in Boston, there's a new facility going up, with 5,000 employees. I know they're going to have 25,000 in Long Island City, right in the Queens, in New York City, as well as Crystal City, right outside of DC, 25,000. But, the realization is that, of course, Amazon's going to have data centers, in pretty much every country, and they're going to have employees all around the world. This doesn't just stay to the US, but Amazon, overall. So, Amazon, just a massive employer. I know so many people who have joined them. (laughs) Some that have left them. But, almost everything that I talk about, tends to come back to Amazon, and what there are doing, or how people are trying to compete, or live in that ecosystem. >> You're always talking to the community. What are some of the hottest topics you're hearing out there? >> So, living in this new world, how are we dealing with developers? A story that I really liked, my networking background, the Cisco DevNet team, led by Suzie Wee, is a really phenomenal example, and one of my favorite interviews of the year. I actually got to talk to Suzie twice this year. We've known her for many years. She got promoted to be a Senior Vice President, which is a great validation, but what she built is a community from the ground up. It took about four years to build this platform, and it's not about, "Oh, we have some products, and developers love it.", but it's the marketplace that they live in, really do have builders there. It's the most exciting piece of what's happening at Cisco. My first show for 2019 will be back at Cisco, live in Barcelona, and Cisco going through this massive transformation, to be the dominant networking company. When they talk about their future, it is as a software company. That actually, it blew my mind, Sam. You know, Cisco is the networking company. When they say, "When you think of us, "five to ten years from now, "you won't think of us as a networking company. "You'll think of us as a software company." That's massive. They were one of the four horsemen of the internet era. And, if Cisco is making that change, everything changes. IBM, people said if they don't make this move for Red Hat, is there danger in the future? So, everything is changing so fast, it is one of the things that everybody tries to sort out and deal with. I've got some thoughts on that, which I'm sure we'll get to later on. >> (laughs) As is Suzie Wee one of your top interviews of 2018, could you give your top three interviews? >> First of all, my favorite, Sam, is always when I get to talk to the practitioners. A few of the practitioners I love talking to, at the Nutanix show in New Orleans this year, I talked to Vijay Luthra, with Northern Trust. My co-host of the show was Keith Townsend. Keith, Chicago guy, said, "Northern Trust is one "of the most conservative financial companies", and they are all-in on containerization, modernized their application. It is great to see a financial company that is driving that kind of change. That's kind of a theme I think you'll see, Sam. Another, one, was actually funny enough, Another Nutanix show, at London, had the Manchester City Council. So, the government, what they're doing, how they're driving change, what they're doing with their digital transformation, how they're thinking of IOT. Some of my favorite interviews I've done the last few years, have been in the government, because you don't think of government as innovating, but, they're usually resource-constrained. They have a lot of constituencies, and therefore, they need to do this. The Amazon public sector show was super-impressive. Everything from, I interviewed a person from the White House Historical Society. They brought on Jackie O's original guidebook, of being able to tour the White House. So, some really cool human interest, but it's all a digital platform on Amazon. What Amazon is doing in all of the industry-specific areas, is really impressive. Some of these smaller shows that we've done, are super-impressive. Another small show, that really impressed me, is UiPath, robotic process automation, or RPA, been called the gateway drug to AI, really phenomenal. I've got some background in operations, and one of the users on the program was talking about how you could get that process to somewhere around 97 to 98% compliance, and standardize, but when they put in RPA, they get it to a full six sigma, which is like 99.999%, and usually, that's something that just humans can't do. They can't just take the variation out of a process, with people involved. And, this has been the promise of automation, and it's a theme. One of my favorite questions, this year, has been, we've been talking about things like automation, and intelligence in systems, for decades, but, now, with the advent of AI machine learning, we can argue whether these things are actually artificial intelligence, in what they are learning, but the programming and learning models, that can be set up and trained, and what they can do on their own, are super-impressive, and really poised to take the industry to the next level. >> So, I wanna fast forward to 2019, but before we do so, anything else that people need to know about 2018? >> 2018, Sam, it's this hybrid multi-cloud world. The relationship that I think we spend the most time talking about, is we talked a lot about Amazon, but, VMware. VMware now has over 600,000 customers, and that partnership with VMware is really interesting. The warning, of course, is that Amazon is learning a lot from Vmware, When we joke with my friends, we say, "Okay, you've learned a lot from them means that "maybe I don't need them in the long term." But in the short term, great move for VMware, where they've solidified their position with customers. Customers feel happy as to where they live, in that multi-cloud environment, and I guess we throw out these terms like hybrid, and multi, and things like that, but when I talk to users, they're just figuring out their digital transformation. They're worried about their business. Yes, they're doing cloud, so sassify what you can, put in the public cloud what makes sense, and modernize. Beware of lift and shift, it's really not the answer. It could be a piece of the overall puzzle, to be able to modernize and pull things apart. An area, I always try to keep ahead of what the next bleeding-edge thing is, Sam. A thing I've been looking at, deeply, the last two years, has been serverless. Serverless is phenomenal. It could just disrupt everything we're talking about, and, Amazon, of course, has the lead there. So, it was kind of an undercurrent discussion at the KubeCon Show, that we were just at. Final thing, things are changing all the time, Sam, and it is impossible for anybody to keep up on all of it. I get the chance to talk to some of the most brilliant people, at some of the most amazing companies, and even those, you know, the PhD's, the people inventing stuff, they're like, "I can't keep up with what's going on at my company, "let alone what's going on in the industry." So, that's the wrong thing. Of course, one of the things we helped to do, is to extract the signal from the noise, help people distill that. We put it into video, we put it into articles, we put it into podcasts, to help you understand some of the basics, and where you might wanna go to learn more. So, we're all swimming in this. You know, the only constant, Sam, in the industry is change. >> Absolutely. (laughing in unison) >> So, things are changing. The whole landscape, as you said, is changing. Going into 2019, what should people expect? Any predictions from you? Any big mergers and acquisitions you might see? >> It's amazing, Sam. The analogy I always use is, when you have the hundred year flood, you always say, "Oh gosh, we got through it, "and we should be okay." No, no, no, the concern is, if you have the hundred year flood, or the big earthquake, the chances are that you're going to have maybe something of the same magnitude, might even be more or less, but rather soon. A couple of years ago, Dell bought EMC, largest acquisition in tech history. We spent a lot of time analyzing it. By the way, Dell's gonna go public, December 28. Interesting move, billions of dollars. As Larry Ellison said, "Michael Dell, "he's no dummy when it comes to money.' He is going to make, personally, billions of dollars off of this transaction, and, overall, looks good for the Dell technologies family, as they're doing. So, that acquisition, the Red Hat acquisition, yeah, we're probably gonna see a 10-to-20 billion dollar acquisition this year. I'm not sure who it is. There's a lot of tech IPOs on the horizon. The data protection space is one that we've kept a close eye on. From what I hear, Zeam, who does over a billion dollars a year, not looking to go public. Rubrik, on the other hand, somewhere in the north of 200 million dollars worth of revenue, I kind of remember 200, 250 in run rate, right now, likely going to go public in 2019. Could somebody sweep in, and buy them before they go public? Absolutely. Now, I don't think Rubrik's looking to be acquired. In that space, you've got Rubrik, you've got Cohesity, you've got a whole lot of players, that it has been a little bit frothy, I guess you'd say. But, customers are looking for a change in how they're doing things, because their environments are changing. They've got lots of stuff in sass, gotta protect that data. They've got things all over the cloud, and that data issue is core. When we actually did our predictions for 2018, data was at the center of everything, when I talked about Wikibon. It was just talking to Peter Burris and David Floyer, and they said there is some hesitancy in the enterprise, like, I'm using Salesforce, I'm using Workday I'm using ServiceNow. We hear all the things about Facebook giving my data away, Google, maybe the wrong people own data, there's that concern I want to pull things back. I always bristle a little bit, when you talk about things like repatriation, and "I'm not gonna trust the cloud." Look, the public clouds are more secure, than my data centers are in general, and they're changing and updating much faster. One of the biggest things we have, in IT, is that I put something in, and making changes is tough. Change, as we said, is the only thing constant. It was something I wrote about. Red Hat, actually, is a company that has dealt with a lot of change. Anybody that sells anything with Linux, or Kubernetes, there are so many changes happening, on not only weekly, but a daily basis, that they help bring a little bit of order, and adult supervision, to what most people would say is chaos out there. That's the kind of thing we need more in the industry, is I need to be able to manage that change. A line I've used many times is, you don't go into a company and say, "Hey, what version of Azure are you running?" You're running whatever Microsoft says is the latest and greatest. You don't have to worry about Patch Tuesday, or 08. I've got that things that's gonna slow down my system for awhile. Microsoft needs to make that invisible to me. They do make that thing invisible to me. So does Amazon, so does Google. >> What's your number one company to watch, this upcoming year. Is it Amazon, Sam? Look, Amazon is the company at the center of it all. Their ecosystem is amazing. While Amazon adds more in revenue, than the number two infrastructure player does in revenue. So, look, in the cloud space, it is not only Amazon's world. There definitely is a multi-cloud world. I went to the Microsoft show for the first time, this year, and Microsoft's super-impressive. They focus on your business applications, and their customers love it. Office 365 really helped move everybody towards sass, in a big way, and it's a big service industry. Microsoft's been a phenomenal turnaround story, the last couple of years. Definitely want to dig in more with that ecosystem, in 2019 and beyond. But, Amazon, you know, we could do more shows of the CUBE, in 2019, than we did our first couple of years. They have, of course, Amazon re:Invent, our biggest show of the year, but their second year, it's about 20 shows, that they do, and we're increasing those. I've been to the New York City Summit, and the San Francisco Summit. I've already mentioned their Public Sector Summit. Really, really, really good ecosystems, phenomenal users, and I already told you how I feel about talking to users. It's great to hear what they're doing, and those customers are moving things around. Google, love doing the Google show. We'll be back there in April. Diane Greene is one of the big guests of the year, for us this year. I was sorry to miss it in person, 'cause I actually have some background. I worked with Diane. Back before EMC bought VMware. I had the pleasure of working with Vmware, when they were, like, a hundred person company. Sam, one of the things, I look back at my career, and I'm still a little bit agog. I mean, I was in my mid-20s, working in this little company, of about 100 people, signed an NDA, started working with them, and that's VMware, with 600,000 customers. I've watched their ascendancy. It's been one of the pleasures of my career. There's small ones, heck. Nutanix I've mentioned a couple of times. I started working them when they were real small. They have over a billion in revenue. New Cure, since the early days. Some companies have done really well. The cloud is really the center of gravity of what I watch. Edge computing we got into a bit. I'm surprised we got almost 20 minutes into this conversation, without mentioning it. That, the whole IOT space, and edge computing, really interesting. We did a fun show with PTC, here in Boston. Got to talk to the father of AI, the father of virtual reality. It's like all these technologies, many of which have been bouncing around for a couple of decades. How are they gonna become real? We've got a fun virtual reality place right next door. The guy running the cameras for us is a huge VR enthusiast. How much will those take the next step? And, how much are things stalling out? I worry, was having conversations. Autonomous vehicles, we're even looking at the space. Been talking about it. Will it really start to accelerate? Or have we hit road blocks, and it's gonna get delayed. Some of these are technologies, some of these are policies in place, in governments and the like, and that's still one of the things that slows down crowded options. You know, GDPR was the big discussion, leading into the beginning of 2018. Now, we barely talk about it. There's more regulations coming, in California and the like, but we do need to worry about some of those macro-economical and political things that sometimes get in the way, of some of the technology pieces. >> I'd love to put something out into the universe, here. If you could interview anyone in the world, who would it be? Let's see if we can make it happen. It's amazing to me, Sam, some of the interviews we've done. I got a one-on-one with Michael Dell this year. It was phenomenal, Michael was one. It took us about three or four years before we got Michael on the program, the first time. Now, we have him two or three times a year. Really, to get to talk to him. There is the founder culture John Furrier always talks about. Some of these founders are very different. Michael, amazing, got to speak to him a couple of times. There's something that makes him special, and there's a reason why he's a billionaire, and he's done very well for himself. So, that was one. Furrier also interviewed John Chambers, who is one of the big gets I was looking at. I was jealous that I wasn't able to get there. I got to interview one of my favorite authors this year, Walter Isaacson, at the shows. When I look at, Elon Musk, of course, as a technologist, is, I'm amazed. I read his bio, I've heard some phenomenal interviews with him. Kara Swisher did a phenomenal sit-down on her podcast with him. Even the 60 Minutes interview was decent this year. >> The Joe Rogan one was great >> Yeah, so, you'd want to be able to sit down. I wouldn't expect Elon to be a 15-minute, rapid-fire conversation, like we usually have. But, we do some longer forms, sit down. So he would be one. Andrew Jassy, we've interviewed a number of times now. Phenomenal. We've got to get Bezos on the program. Some of the big tech players out there. Look, Larry Ellison's another one that we haven't had on the program. We've had Mark Hurd on the program, We've had lots of the Oracle executives. Oracle's one that you don't count out. They still have so many customers, and have strong power in new issues, So there are some big names. I do love some of the authors, that we've had on the program, some thought leaders in the space. Every time we go to a show, it's like, I was a little disappointed I didn't get to interview Jane Goodall, when she was at a show. Things like that. So, we ask, and never know when you can get 'em. A lot of times, it's individual stories of the users, which are phenomenal, and there's just thousands of good stories. That's why we go to some small shows, and make sure we always have some editorial coverage. So that, if their customers are comfortable sharing their story, that's the foundation our research was founded on. Peers sharing with their peers. Some of the most powerful stories of change, and taking advantage of new technologies, and really transforming, not just business, but health care and finance, and government. There's so much opportunity for innovation, and drivers in the marketplace today. >> Stu, I love it. Thanks for wrapping up 2018 for us, and giving us the predictions. CUBE nation, you heard it here. We gotta get Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and Larry Ellison on the CUBE this year. We could use your help. Stu, thank you, and CUBE nation, thank you for watching. (electronic techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon web services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone, here at AWS re:Invent 2018, their sixth year of theCUBE coverage, two sets wall-to-wall coverage here, two more sets in other locations, getting all the content, bringing it in, ingesting it into our video cloud service on AWS, ah, Dave, >> Lot of content, John. >> Lot of people don't know that we have that video cloud service, but we're going to have a lot of fun, ton of content, ton of stories, and a special analyst segment, Jerry Chen, guest here today, CUBE alumni, famous Venture Capitalist and Greylock partners, partnering with Reid Hoffman, the founder of LinkedIn, great set of partners at Greylock , great firm, tier one, doing a lot of great deals, Rockset, recent one. >> Thanks, yeah. >> You're also, on the record, these six years ago, calling the shot of Babe Ruth predicting the future. You've got a good handle on, you've got VM where you have the cloud business, now you're making investments, you're seeing a lot of stuff on the landscape, certainly, as a Venture Capitalist, you're funding projects, what better time now of innovation to actually put money to work, to hit market share, and then the big guys are getting bigger, they're creating more robust platforms, game is changing big-time, want to get your perspective, Dave, so, Jerry, what's your take on the announcements, slew of announcements, which ones jumped out at you? >> I think there's kind of two or three areas, there's definitely the hybrid cloud story with the Outpost, there's a bunch of stuff around ML and AI services, and a bunch of stuff on data and storage, and for me I think what they're doing around the ML services, the prediction, the personalization, the text OCR, what Amazon's doing at that app layer is now creating AI building blocks for modern application, so you want to do forecasts, you want to do personalization, you want to do text analysis, you have a simple API to basically build these modern apowered apps, he's doing to the app infrastructure layer what he's done to the cloud infrastructure layer, by deconstructing these services. >> And API is also the center, that's what web services are, so question for you is, do you see that the core cloud players, Aussie, Amazon, Bigly, Google, Microsoft, others, it's a winner take most, you called that six years ago, and that's true, but as they grow there's going to be now a new cloudification going on for business apps, new entrepreneurs coming to market, who's vulnerable, who wins, who loses, as this evolution continues because it's going to enable a lot of opportunity. >> Yeah, well I mean Amazon in cloud in general is going to create a lot of winners and losers, like you said, so I think you have a shift of dollars from on prem and old legacy vendors, databay storage, compute, to the cloud, so I think there's a shift of dollars, there are winner and losers, but I think what's going to happen is, with all these services around AI, ML, and Cloud as a distribution model, a lot of applications are going to be rebuilt. So I think that the entire application stack from all the big SaaS players to small SaaS companies, you're going to see this kind of a long tale of new SaaS applications being built on top of the Cloud that you didn't see in the past. >> And the ability to get to markets faster, so the question I have for you is, if you're an entrepreneur out there, looking for funding and I can to market quicker, what's the playbook, and two, Jassie talked on stage about a new persona, a new kind of developer, one that can rethink and reimagine and reinvent something that someone else has already done, so if you're an entrepreneur, you got to think to take someone else's territory, so how does an entrepreneur go out and identify whose lunch to eat, so if I want to take down a company, I got to have a strategy, how do I use the cloud to >> I think it's always a combination when a founder in a thing attacks your market it's a combination of where are the dollars, where can I create some advantage IP or advantage angle, and thirdly where do I have a distribution advantage, how can I actually get my product in the hands of the users differently? And so I think those are the three things, you find intersection of a great market, you have a unique angle, and you have a unique route to market, then you have a powerful story. So, you think about cloud changing the game, think about the mobile app you can consist of, for consumers, that is also a new platform, a new distribution method, the mobile app stores, and so what happened, you had a new category of developers, mode developers, creating this long tale, a thousand thousand apps, for everything from groceries to cars to your Fantasy Football score. So I think you're going to see distribution in the cloud, making it easy to get your apps out there, going to see a bunch of new markets open up, because we're seeing verticals like healthcare, construction, financial services, that didn't have special apps beforehand, be disrupted with technology. Autodesk just bought PlanGrid for 800 million dollars, I mean that's unheard of, construction software company. So you can see a bunch of new inverdics like that be opened up, and then I think with this cloud technology, with compute storage network becomes free and you have this AI layer on top of it, you can power these new applications using AI, that I think is pretty damn exciting. >> Yes, you described this sort of, we went from client server to the cloud, brought a whole bunch of new app providers, obviously Salesforce was there but Workday, Service Now, what you described is a set of composeable digital services running on top of a cloud, so that's ripe for disruption, so do I have to own my own data centers if I'm big SaaS company, what happens to those big guys? >> I don't think you have to, well, you don't have to own your own data center as a company, but you could if you wanted to, right, so at some point in scale, a lot of big players build their own data centers, like AirBNB is on Amazon, but Dropbox built their own storage on Amazon early, then their own data center later. Uber has their own data center, right, so you can argue that at some point of scale it makes sense to build your own, so you don't need to be on Amazon or Google as your start, but it does give you a head start. Now the question is, in the future, can you build a SaaS application entirely on Amazon, Azure, or Google, without any custom code, right, can you hide read write call private SaaS, like a single instance of my SaaS application for you, John, or for you, Dave, that's your data, your workflow, your information personalized for you, so instead of this multi-tenet CRM system like Salesforce, I have a custom CRM system just for Dave, just for Jeff, just for Jerry, just for theCUBE, right? >> I think yes, for that, I think that's definitely a trend I would see happening. >> It's what Infor is trying to do, right, Charles Phillips says "Friends don't let friends "build data centers," but they've still got a big loss in legacy there, but it's an interesting model, focused on verticals or microverticals or like the healthcare example that you're giving, and lot of potential for something. >> Well here's why I think I like this because, I think, and I said this before in theCUBE maybe it's not the best way to say it is that, if you look at the benefit of AI, data-driven, the quality of the data and the power of the compute has to be there. AI will work well with all that stuff, but it's also specialized around the application's use case. So you have specialism around the application, but you don't have to build a full stack to do that, you could use a horizontally scalable cloud distribution system in your word, and then only create custom unique workloads for the app, where machine learning's involved, and AI, that's unique to the app, that's differentiation, that could be the business model, or the utility. So, multitenancy could exist in theory, at the scalable level, but unique at the top of the level so yes I would say I'd want that hosted in the most customized, agile, flexible way. So I would argue that that's the scenario. >> I think that's the future, I mean one of my, I think you were saying, Dave, friends don't let friends build data centers anymore, it's you probably don't need to build a data center anymore because you can actually build your own application on top of one of the two or three large cloud providers. So it's interesting to see what happens the next three, four years, we're going to see kind of a thousand flowers bloom of different apps, not everyone's going to make it, not everyone's going to be a huge Salesforce-like outcome, but there'll be a bunch of applications out there. >> And the IoT stuff is interesting to me, so observing a lot of what the IT guys are doing, it reminds me of people trying to make the Windows mobile phone, they're just trying to force IT standards down the IoT, what I've seen from AWS today is more of a bottoms up approach, build applications for operations technology people, which I think is the right way to go, what do you see in an IoT, IoT apps, what's the formula there? >> I think what Amazon announced today with their time series database, right, their Timestream prediction engine, plus their Outpost offering with the Vmware themselves, you're really seeing a combination of IoT and Edge, right, it's the whole idea is, one, there's a bunch of use cases for time series in IoT, because sentry data, cameras, self-driving cars, drones, et cetera, there's more data coming at you, it adds all of that. >> And Splunk has proven that big-time. >> Correct, Splunk's let 18 billion Marcap company, all on time series data, but number two, what's happening is, it's not necessarily centralized data, right, it's happening at the edge, your self-driving car, your cell phone, et cetera, so Outpost is really a way for Amazon to get closer to the edge, by pushing their compute towards your data center, towards remote office, branch office, and get closer to where the data is, so I think that'll be super interesting. >> Well the Elastic Inference engine is critical, now we got elasticity around inference, and then they got the chip set that worked Inferentia, that can work with the elastic service. That's a powerful combination. >> The AI plumbing war between Google and TetraFlow as technology there's like PyTorch, Google TPUs versus what Amazon is doing with inference chips today, versus what I'm sure Microsoft and else is doing, is fascinating to watch in terms of how you had a kind of a Intel Nvidia duopoly for a long time, and now you have Intel, Nvidia, and then everyone from Amazon, Google, Microsoft doing their own soul again, it's pretty fascinating to watch. >> What was the stat, he said 85% of the TensorFlow, cloud TensorFlow's running on AWS? >> Makes a lot of sense, I think he said Aurora's customers logoslide doubled, but let's break down real quick, to end the segment with the key areas that we see going on, at least my perspective, I want to get your reaction. Storage, major disruption, he emphasized a lot of that in the keynote, spent a lot of time on stores, actually I think more than EC2 if you look at it, two, databases, database war, storage rate configuration, and a holy trinity of networking, storage, and compute, that's evolving, databases, SageMaker, machine learning. All there and then over the top, yesterday's announcement of satellite as a service, that essentially kills the edge of the network, cause there is no edge if we have space satellites shooting connectivity to any device the world is now, there's no more edge, it's everywhere. So, your thoughts, those areas. Which one pops out as the most surprising or most relevant? >> I think it's consistent Amazon strategy, on the lowest layer they're trying to draw the cost to zero, so on storage, cheaper cheaper cheaper, they're driving the bottom layer to zero to get all your data. I think the second thing, the database layer, it makes sense, it's not open-source, right, time scale or time series, it's not, Timestream's not their open-source database, it's their own, so open-source, low cost, the lowest layer, their database stuff is mostly their own, Aurora, Dynamo, Timestream, right, because there's some level lock in there, which I think customers are worried about, so that's clever, it's not by accident, that's all proprietary, and then ML Services, on top of that, that's all cares with developers, and it's API locking, so clearly low-cost open-source for the bottom, proprietary data services that they're trying to own, and then API's on top of it. And so the higher up in the stack, the more and more Amazon, you look, the more and more Amazon you have to adopt as kind of a lock in stack, so it's a brilliant strategy the guys have been executing for the past six, seven years as you guys have seen firsthand, I think the most exciting thing, and the most shocking thing to me is this move towards this battle for the AI front, this ML AI front, I think we saw ML's the new sequel, right, that's the new war, right, against Amazon, Google, and Microsoft. >> And that's the future of applications, cause this is >> But you're right on, it's a knife fight for the data, and then you layer on machine intelligence on top of that, and you get cloud scale, and that's the innovation engine for the next 10 years. >> Alright Jerry Chen just unpacked the State of the Union of cloud, of course as an investor I got to ask the final question, how are you investing to take advantage of this wave, versus being on the wrong side of history? >> I have framers for everything, there's a framer on how to attack the cloud vendors, and so I'm looking at a couple things, one, a seams in between the clouds, right, or in between services, because they can't do everything well, and there were kind of these large continents, Amazon, Google, Azure, so I'm looking for seams between the three of them, I'm looking for two, deep areas of IP that they're not going into that you actually have proprietary tap, and then verticals of data, like source of the data, or workflows that these guys aren't great, and then finally kind of cross-data cross-cloud solution, so, something that gives you the ability to run on prem, off prem, Microsoft, Google, Azure. >> Yeah, fill in the white spaces, there are big white spaces, and then hope that could develop into, good. Jerry Chen, partner in Greylock , partners formerly Vmware part of the V Mafia, friend of theCUBE, great guest analysis here, with Dave Vellante and John Furrier, thanks for watching us, stay with us, more live coverage, day two of three days of wall-to-wall coverage at re:Invent, 52,000 people, the whole industry's here, you can see the formations, we're getting all of the data, we're bringing it to you, stay with us.

live from New York it's the cube covering the cube New York City 2018 brought to you by silicon angle media and its ecosystem partners i'm jeff workday Villante we're here nine years our nine years of coverage two days live in New York City and our next two guests shot Mrazek CEO amana stayed at fiendish males CMO mystic good to see you again welcome back thank you bad to be here guys so obviously this show we've been here nine years we were the first original Hadoop world we've seen a change Hadoop was gonna change the world it kind of didn't but we get the idea of it did not it did didn't but it would change our world it brought open source and the notion of low-cost Hardware into the big data game and then the big data became so much more powerful around these new tools but then the cloud comes in full throttles and while they can get horsepower that compute you can stand up infrastructure for analytics all this data goodness starts to change machine learning then becomes the the real utility that's showing this demand for using data right now not the set up using data this is a fundamental big trend so I don't get you guys reaction what do you see this evolving more cloud like how do you guys see the trend in this as data science certainly becoming more mainstream and productivity users to hardcore users and then you got cloud native developers doing things like kubernetes we've heard kubernetes here it's like a cloud is a data science what's going on what's your view of the market so I came from a company that was in an tech and we were built on big data and in looking at how big data is evolved and the movement towards analytics and machine learning it really being enabled by Big Data people have rushed to build these solutions and they've done a great job but it was always about what's the solution to my problem how do i leverage this data and they built out these platforms and in our context what we've seen is that enterprises get to a certain point where they say okay i've got all these different stacks that have been built these apps that have been built to solve my bi and analytics problems but what do I do about how do I manage all these and that's what I encounter my last company where we built everything ourselves and then so wait a minute but what we see at an enterprise level is fascinating because when I go to a large company I go you know we work with no sequel databases and Hadoop and you know how much Couchbase do you have how much Mongo etc the inevitable answer is yes and five of each right and they're cutting to this point where I've got all this distributed data distributed across my organization how am I going to actually manage it and make sure that that data is protected that I can migrate to the cloud or in a hybrid cloud environment and all these questions start to come up at an enterprise level we actually have had some very high-level discussions at a large financial institution here in New York where they literally brought 26 people to the meeting the initial meeting this was literally a second call where we were presenting our capability because they're they're now at the point where it's like this is mission-critical data this is not just some cool stuff somebody built off in one of our divisions it matters to the whole enterprise how do we make sure that data is protected backed up how do we move data around and that's really the the trend that we're tapping into and that the founders of our company saw many years ago and said I need to I need to we need to build a solution around this it's interesting you know you think about network data as a concept or data in general it's kind of got the same concepts we've seen in networking and/or cloud a control plane of some sorts out there and you know we're networking kind of went wrong as the management plane was different than the control plane so management and control or huge issues I mean you bring up this sprawl of data these companies are data full it's not like hey we might have data in the future right they got data now they're like bursting with data one what's the control plane look like what's the management plane look like these are all there's a technical concepts but with that with that in mind this is a big problem what our company is doing right now what are what are some of the steps that are taking now to get a handle on the management the data management it's not just your grandfather's data management so we anymore it's different it looks different your thoughts on on this chain of management so they're approaching the problem now and that's our sweet spot but I don't think they have in their minds yet come to exactly how to solve it it's there's this realization about we need to do this at this point and and and in fact doing it right is something that our founders when they built Lee said look if this problem of data management across big data needs to be solved by a data we're platform built on big data so let's use big data techniques to solve the problem all right so let's before getting some of the solution you guys are doing take a minute to explain what you guys are doing for the company the mission you know the value proposition status what do you guys do how are people gonna consume your product I mean take a particular type gen simple elevator pitch and we were enterprise data management focused specific than had you been no sequel so everyone's familiar with the traditional space of data management in the relational space relational world very large market very mature market well we're tapping into is what John was just saying which is you've got this proliferation but Dupin no sequel and people are hitting the wall they're hitting the ceiling because they don't have the same level of operational tools that they need to be able to mainstream these deployments whether it's data protection whether it's orchestration whether it's migration whatever the case may be so what we do that's essentially our value prophecy at a management for a Dupin no sequel we help organizations essentially drive that control plane really around three buckets data protection if it's business critical I got to protect it okay disaster recovery falls into protection bucket good old stuff everyone's familiar with but not in Hadoop in no single space orchestrations the second big bucket for us which is I'm moving to an agile development model how do i do things like automated test dev how do i do things like GD are the compliance management how do i do things like cloud migration you tut you know john touched on this one before a really interesting trend that we're seeing is you said what are customers doing they're trying to create a unified taxonomy they're trying to create a unified data strategy which is why 26 people end up in the but in lieu of that there's this huge opportunity because of what they need they know that it's got to be protected and they have 12 different platforms and they also want to be able to do things like one Cosmo I'm on go today but I'll be cosmos tomorrow I'm a dupe today but I might be HD inside tomorrow I want to just move from one to the other I want to be able to do intelligence so essentially the problem that we solve is we give them that agility and we give them that protection as they're sort of figuring this all out so we have this right you basically come in and say look it you can have whatever platform you want for your day there whether it's Hadoop and with most equals get unstructured and structured data together which makes sense but protections specifically does it have to morph and get swapped out based upon a decision correct make well now we're focused specifically Hadoop and no sequel so we would not be playing like if you we're not the 21st vendor to be helping s AP and Oracle you know customers backup their data it's basically if your Hadoop renewal sequel that's the platform regardless of what Hadoop distribution you're doing or where it's no see you know change out your piece what they do as they evolve and are correct I feel exactly right you're filling white space right because when this whole movement started it was like you were saying commodity Hardware yeah and you had this this idea of pushing code to data and oh hey his life is so easy and all of a sudden there's no governance there's no data protection no business continuity is all his enterprise stuff I didn't you heard for a long time people were gonna bring enterprise grade to Hadoop but they really didn't focus on the data protection space correct or the orchestra either was in those buckets and you touch them just the last piece of that puzzle value wise is on the machine learning piece yeah we do protection we do orchestration and we're bringing machine learning to bear to automate protection what amazing we hear a lot and that's a huge concern because the HDFS clusters need to talk speech out there right so there's a lot of nuances and Hadoop that are great but also can create headache from a user human standpoint because you need exact errors can get folded I gotta write scripts it creates a huge problem on multiple fronts the whole notion of being eventually being clustered in the first base being eventually consistent in the second place it creates a huge opportunity for us because this notion of being a legs we get the question asked the question why well you know there are a lot of traditional vendors they're just getting into the space and then what do that that's actually good because it rises you know rises all boats if you will because we think we've got a pretty significant technology mode around our ability to provide protection orchestration for eventually consistent clustered environments which is radically different than the traditional I love the story about the 26 people showing them me take me through what happened because that's kind of like what your jonquil fishbowl what do they do it they sit in their auditing they take a node so they really raising their hand they peppering you with questions what what happened in that meeting tell us so so it's an interesting microcosm what's happening in these organizations because as the various divisions and kind of like the federated IT structure started building their own stuff and I think the cloud enabled that it's like you know basically giving a the middle finger to central IT and so I can do all this stuff myself and then the organization gets to this realization of like no we need a central way to approach data management so in this meeting basically so we had an initial meeting with a couple of senior people and said we are we are going about consolidating how we manage all this data across all these platforms we want you to come in and present so when we presented there was a lot of engagement a lot of questions you could also see people still though there's an element of I want to protect my world and so this organizational dynamic plays out but you know when you're at a fortune 50 company and data is everything there's the central control starts to assert itself again and that's what we saw in this because the consequences of not addressing it is what is potentially massive data you know data loss loss of millions hundreds of millions of dollars you know data is the gold now right is the new oil so the central organizations are starting to assert that so we say that see that playing out and that's why all these people were in this meeting which is good in a way because then we're not like okay we got to sell ten different groups or ten different organizations it's actually being so there's there's kind of this pull back to the center it's happened in the no sequel world of your perspectives on this I mean early on you had guys like Mongo took off because it was so simple to use and capture unstructured data and now you're hearing everybody's talking about you know acid compliance and enterprise you know great capabilities that's got to be a tailwind for you guys could you bring it in the data protection and orchestration component but yeah what do you see it in that world what do you guys support today and maybe give us a glimpse of the future sure so that what we see as well a couple different things we are we are agnostic to the databases in the sense that we are definitely in Switzerland we were we you know we support all commerce so it's you know it's follow the follow the follow of the market share if you will Cassandra Mongo couch data stacks right on down the line on the no sequel side and what's interesting so they have very there have all varying degrees of maturity in terms of what their enterprise capabilities are some of them offer sort of rudimentary backup type stuff some fancy they have more backup versus others but at the end of the day you know their core differentiation they each it's fascinating to each have sort of a unique value prop in terms of what they're good at so it's a very fragmented market so that's a challenge that's an opportunity for us but it's a challenge from a marketplace networkers they've got to carve out there they all want the biggest slice of the pie but it's very fragmented because each of them is good at doing something slightly different yeah okay and so that like the the situation described before is they've got yes so you got one of everything yeah so they've got 19 different backup and recovery right coordinate processes approach or the or nothing or scripting law so that they do have to they've got a zillion steps associated with that and they're all scripted and so their probability of a failure you know very you drop a mirror that's a human error to is another problem and you use the word tailwind and I think that's very appropriate because with most of these vendors they're there they've got their hands full just moving their database features forward right you know where the engagement so when we can come in and actually help them with a customer who's now like okay great thank you database platform what do you do for backup well we have a rudimentary thing we should belong with it but there is one of our partners a manas who can provide these like robust enterprise it really helps them so with some of those vendors were actually a lot of partner traction because they see it's like that's not what their their strength is and they got to focus on moving their database so I'll give you some stats I'm writing a piece right now a traditional enterprise back in recovery but I wonder if you could comment on how it applies to your world so these are these are research that David flora did and some survey work that we've done on average of global 2000 organizations will have 50 to 80 steps associated with its backup and recovery processes and they're generally automated with scripts which of course a fragile yeah right and their prefer own to era and it's basically because of all this complexity there's a 1 in 4 chance of encountering an error on recovery which is obviously going to lead to longer outages and you know if you look at I mean the average cost the downtime for a typical global global 2000 companies between 75 thousand and two hundred fifteen thousand dollars an hour right now I don't know is your world because it's data it's all digitally the worst built as a source is it probably higher end of the spectrum all those numbers go AHA all those numbers go up and here's why all those metrics tie back to a monolithic architecture the world is now micro services based apps and you're running these applications in clusters and distributor architectures drop a note which is common I mean think you know you're talking about you're talking about commodity hardware to come out of the infrastructure it's completely normal to drop notes drops off you just add one back in everything keeps going on if your script expects five nodes and now there's four everything goes sideways so the probability I would I don't have the same stats back but it's worse because the the likelihood of error based upon configuration changes something as simple as that and you said micro-services was interesting to is is that now is it just a data lake kind of idea of storing data and a new cluster with microservices now you're having data that's an input to another app check so now so that the level of outage 7so mole severity is multiple because there could be a revenue-generating app at good young some sort of recommendation engine for e-commerce or something yeah something that's important like sorry you can't get your bank balance right now can't you any transfers because the hadoo closes down okay this is pretty big yes so it's a little bit different than say oh well to have a guy go out there and add a new server maybe a little bit different yeah and this is the you know this is the type of those are the types of stats that organizations that we're talking to now are caring a lot more it speaks to the market maturity do you run into the problem of you know it's insurance yeah and so they don't want to pay for insurance but a big theme in that you know the traditional enterprises how do we get more out of this data whether it's helping manage you know this I guess where that that's where your orchestration comes in cloud management maybe cloud migration maybe talk about some of the non insurance value add to our components and how that's resonating with with cost yeah yeah I so I'll jump in but the yeah the non protection stuff the orchestration bucket we're actually seeing it comes back to the to the problem sting we just said before which is they don't have it's not a monolithic stack it's a micro services based stack they've got multiple data sources they've got multiple data types it's sort of a it's the it's the byproduct of essentially putting power into into divisions hands to drive these different data strategies so you know the whole cloud let me double click on cloud migrations is a is a huge value problem that we have we talked about this notion of being data where so the ability to I'm here today but I want to be somewhere else tomorrow is a very strong operational argument that we hear from customers that we also also hear from the SI community because they hear it from the other community the other piece of that puzzle is you also hear that from the cloud folks because you've got multiple data for platforms that you're dealing with that you need agility to move around and the second piece is you've got the cloud obviously there's a massive migration to the cloud particularly with the dubidouxs sequel workloads so how do I streamline that process how do I provide the agility to be able to go from point A to point B just from of migration standpoint so that's a very very important use case for us has a lot of strategic value like it's coming it's sort of the markets talking to us like no no no we have this is him but we have to be able to do this and then simple things like not simple but you know automated test step is a big deal for us everybody's moved agile development so they want to spin up you know I don't want it I don't want to basically I want 10% of my data set I want to mask out my PII data I want to spin it up on Azure and I want to do that automatically every hour because I'm gonna run 16 I'm gonna run six builds today clouds certainly accelerates your opportunity big-time it forces everything to the table right yeah everybody's you can't hide anymore right what are you gonna do right you gotta answer the questions these are the questions so okay my final question I want to get on the table is for you in the segment is the product strategy how you guys looking at as an assassin gonna be software on premise cloud how's that look at how people consume the OP the offering and to opportunities because you guys are a young growing company you're kind of good good time you don't have the dog'll or the bagging it's Hadoop has changed a lot certainly there's a use case that neurons getting behind but clouds now a factor that product strategy and then when you're in deal why are you being called in why would someone want to call you rotor signs that would say you know call you guys up when with it when would a customer see signals and what signals would that be and to give you guys a ring or a digital connection product so the primary use cases are talking about recovery there's also data migration and the test step we have a big account right now that we're in final negotiations with where their primary use case is they're they're in health care and it's all about privacy and they need to securely mask and subset the data to your specific question around how are we getting called in basically you've got two things you've got the the administrators either the database architect or the IT or infrastructure people who are saying okay I need a backup solution I'm at a point now where I really need to protect my data as one and then there's this other track which is these higher-level strategic discussions where we're called in like the twenty six person meeting it's like okay we need an enterprise-wide data strategy so we're kind of attacking it both at the use case and at the higher level strategic and and and obviously the more we can drive that strategic discussion and get more of people wanting to talk to us about that that's gonna be better for our business and the stakeholders in that strategic discussion or whomever CIT is involved CIO maybe use their chief data officer and yeah database architect enterprise architecture head of enterprise architecture you know various flavors but you basically it kind of ways comes down to like two polls there's somebody who's kind of owns infrastructure and then there's somebody who kind of owns the data so it could be a chief data officer data architect or whatever depending on the scale of your and they're calling you because they're full they had to move the production workloads or they have production workloads that are from a bond from what uncared-for undershirt or is that the main reason they're in pain or you're the aspirin are you more others like we had a day loss and we didn't have any point in time recovery and that's what you guys provide so we don't want to go through this again so that's that's a huge impetus for us it is all about to your point it is mature its production workloads I mean the simple qualifying are you are you running a duper no sequel yes are you running in production yes you have a backup strategy sort of tip of the spear now to just briefly answer your question before we before we run out of time so it's an it's it's not a SAS basement we're software-defined solution will run in bare mantle running VMs will run in the cloud as your Google whatever you want to run on so we run anywhere you want we're sorry for be fine we use any storage that you want and basically it's an annual subscription base so it's not a SAS consumption model that may come down the road but it's basically in a license that you buy deploy it wherever you want customers choose what to do basically customers can do you know it's complete flexible flexible but back to you so let's go back to something you said you said they didn't have a point in time recovery what their point in time recovery was their last full backup or they just didn't have one or they just didn't have one all of the above you know see we've seen both yeah there's a market maturity issues so it's represented yeah you know that a lot its clustered I you know I just replicate my data and replication is not earth and truth be told my old company that was our approach we had a script but still it was like and the key thing is even if you write that script as you point out before the whole recovery thing so you know having a recovery sandbox is really in thing about this we designed everything exactly extract the value and show the use case prove it out yeah dupes real the history is repeating itself in that regard if you refuel a tional space there's a very in correlation to the Delton between the database platforms of the data mention logical hence they are involved coming in okay let's look at this in the big picture let's dad what's the recovery strategy how we gonna scale this exactly it's just a product Carson so your granularity for a point in time is you offer any point in time any point in time is varying and we'll have more news on that in the next couple weeks okay mantas data here inside the cube hot new startup growing companies really solving a real need need in the marketplace you're kind of an aspirant today but you know growth opportunity for as they scale up so congratulations good luck with the opportunity to secure bringing you live coverage here is part of Cuban YC our ninth year covering the big data ecosystem starting originally 2010 with a dupe world now it's a machine learning Hadoop clusters going at the production guys thanks for coming I really appreciate it this is the cube thanks for watching day one we'll be here all day tomorrow stay with us for more tomorrow be right back tomorrow I'll see you tomorrow

>> Narrator: From San Mateo, California, it's theCUBE covering SnapLogic Innovation Day 2018. Brought to you by SnapLogic. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in San Mateo, California right at the crossroads. The building's called The Crossroads but it's right at the crossroads of 92 and 101. It's a really interesting intersection over the years as you watch these buildings that are on the corner continue to change names. I always think of the Seibel, his first building came up on this corner and we're here to see a good friend of SnapLogic and their brand new building. Gaurav Dhillon, Chairman and CEO, great to see you. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So how long you been in this space? >> Gosh, it's been about a year. >> Okay. >> Although it feels longer. It's a high-growth company so these are dog years. (laughs) >> That's right. and usually, you outgrow it before you all have moved in. >> The years are short but the days are long. >> And it's right next Rakuten, I have to mention it. We all see it on the Warriors' jerseys So now we know who they are and where they are exactly. >> No they're a good outfit. We had an interesting time putting a sign up and then the people who made their sign told us all kinds of back stories. >> Oh, good, good Alright. So give us an update on SnapLogic. You guys are in a great space at a really, really good time. >> You know, things been on a roll. As you know, the mission we set out to... engage with was to bring together applications and data in the enterprise. We have some of the largest customers in high technology. Folks like Qualcomm, Workday. Some of the largest customers in pharmaceuticals. Folks like Astrazeneca, Bristol-Meyers Squibb. In retail, Denny's, Wendy's, etc. And these folks are basically bringing in new cloud applications and moving data into the cloud. And it's really fun to wire that all up for them. And there's more of it every day and now that we have this very strong install-base of customers, we're able to get more customers faster. >> Right. >> In good time. >> It's a great time and the data is moving into the cloud, and the public cloud guys are really making bigger plays into the enterprise, Microsoft and, Amazon and Google. And of course, there's IBM and lots of other clouds. But integration's always been such a pain and I finally figured out what the snap in SnapLogic means after interviewing you >> (laughs) a couple of times, right. But this whole idea of, non-developer development and you're taking that into integration which is a really interesting concept, enabled by cloud, where you can now think of snapping things together, versus coding, coding, coding. >> Yeah Cloud and A.I, right We feel that this problem has grown because of the change in the platform. The compute platform's gone to the cloud. Data's going to the cloud. There was bunch of news the other day about more and more companies moving the analytics into the cloud. And as that's happening, we feel that this approach and the question we ask ourselves when we started this company, we got into building the born in the cloud platform was, what would Apple do if they were to build an integration product? And the answer was, they would make it like the iPhone, which is easy to use, but very powerful at the same time. And if you can do that, you can bring in a massive population of users who wouldn't have been able to do things like video chat. My mom was not able to do video chat, and believe me, we tried this and every other thing possible 'till facetime came along. And now she can talk to my daughter and she can do it without help, any assistance from teenage grandchildren on that side, Right? >> Right, Right >> So what we've done with SnapLogic, is by bringing in a beautiful, powerful, sleek interface, with a lot of capability in how it connects, snaps together apps and data, we've brought in a whole genre of people who need data in the enterprise so they can serve themselves data. So if your title has analyst in it, you don't have to be programmer analyst. You could be any analyst. >> Right >> You could be a compensation analyst, a commissions analyst, a finance analyst, an HR analyst. All those people can self-serve information, knock down silos, and integrate things themselves. >> It's so interesting because we talk a lot about innovation and digital transformation, and in doing thousands of these interviews, I think the answer to innovation is actually pretty simple. You give more people access to the data. You give them more access to the tools to work with the data and then you give them the power to actually do something once they figure something out. And you guys are really right in the middle of that. So before, it was kind of >> (laughs) Yeah >> democratization of the data, democratization of the tools to work with the data, but in the API economy, you got to be able to stitch this stuff together because it's not just one application, it's not just one data source. >> Correct >> You're bringing from lots and lots of different things and that's really what you guys are taking advantage of this cloud infrastructure which has everything available, so it's there to connect, >> (laughs) Versus, silo in company one and silo in company two. So are you seeing it though, in terms of, of people enabling, kind of citizen integrators if you will, versus citizen developers. >> Yeah. Heck Yeah. So I'll give you an example. One of our large customers... Adobe Systems, right here in San Jose has been amazingly successful flagship account for us. About 800 people at Adobe come to www.snaplogic.com, every week to self-serve data. We replaced legacy products like TIBCO, informatica web methods about four years ago. They first became a customer in 2014 and usage of those products was limited to Java programmers and Sequel programmers, and that was less than 50 people. And imagine that you have about 800 people doing self-service getting information do their jobs. Now, Adobe is unique in that, it's moved the cloud in a fantastic way, or it was unique in 2014. Now everybody is emulating them and the great success that they've had. With the cloud economic model, with the cloud ID model. This is working in spades. We have customers who've come on board in Q4. We're just rounding out Q1 and in less than 60, 90 days, every time I look, 50, 100, 200 people, from each large company, whether it's a cosmetics company, pharmaceuticals company, retailer, food merchandise, are coming in and using data. >> Right >> And it's proliferating, because the more successful they are, the better they are able to do in their jobs, tell their friends about it sort-of-thing, or next cubicle over, somebody wants to use that too. It's so interesting. Adobe is such a great example, cause they did transform their business. Used to be a really expensive license. You would try to find your one friend that worked there around Christmas >> (laughs) Cause you think they got two licenses a year they can buy for a grand. Like, I need an extra one I can get from you. But they moved to a subscription model. They made a big bet. >> Yes. Yes >> And they bet on the cloud, so now if you're a subscriber, which I am, I can work on my home machine, my work machine, go to machine, machine. So, it's a really great transformation story. The other piece of it though, is just this cloud application space. There's so many cloud applications that we all work with every day whether it's Basecamp, Salesforce, Hootsuite. There's a proliferation of these things and so they're there. They've got data. So the integration opportunity is unlike anything that was ever there before. Cause there isn't just one cloud. There isn't just one cloud app. There's a lot of them. >> Yes. >> How do I bring those together to be more productive? >> So here's a stat. The average enterprise has most cloud services or SAS applications, in marketing. On the average, they have 91 marketing applications or SAS applications. >> 91. That's the average. >> 96% of them are not connected together. >> Right. >> Okay. That's just one example. Now you go to HR, stock administration. You go into sales, CRM, and all the ancillary systems around CRM. And there is this sort of massive, to us, opportunity of knocking down these silos and making things work together. You mention the API economy and whilst that's true that all these SAS applications of APIs. The problem is, most companies don't have programmers to hook up those API's. >> Right. To connect them. >> Yes, in Silicon Valley we do and maybe in Manhattan they do, but in everywhere else in the world, the self-service model, the model of being able to do it to something that is simple, yet powerful. Enterprise great >> Right. Right >> and simple, beautiful is absolutely the winning formula in our perspective. So the answer is to let these 100 applications bloom, but to keep them well behaved and orchestrated, in kind of a federated model, where security, having one view of the world, etc., is managed by SnapLogic and then various people and departments can bring in a blessed, SAS applications and then snap them in and the input and the way they connect, is done through snaps. And we've found that to be a real winning model for our customers. >> So you don't have to have like 18 screens open all with different browsers and different apps. >> Swivel chair integration is gone. Swivel chair integration is gone. >> Step above sneakernet but still not-- >> Step above but still not. And again, it may make sense in very, very specific super high-speed, like Wall Street, high frequency trading and hedge funds, but it's a minuscule minority of the overall problems that there needs to be solved. >> Right. So, it's just a huge opportunity, you just are cleaning up behind the momentum in the SAS applications, the momentum of the cloud. >> Cloud data. Cloud apps. Cloud data. And in general, if a customer's not going to the cloud, they're probably not the best for us. >> Right. >> Right. Our customers' almost always going towards the cloud, have lots of data and applications on premise. And in that hybrid spot, we have the capability to straddle that kind of architecture in a way that nobody else does. Because we have a born in the cloud platform that was designed to work in the real world, which is hybrid. >> So another interesting thing, a lot of talk about big data over the years. Now it's just kind of there. But AI and machine learning. Artificial intelligence which should be automated intelligence and machine learning. There's kind of the generic, find an old, dead guy and give it a name. But we're really seeing the values that's starting to bubble up in applications. It's not, AI generically, >> Correct. >> It's how are you enabling a more efficient application, a more efficient workflow, a more efficient, get your job done, using AI. And you guys are starting to incorporate that in your integration framework. >> Yes. Yes. So we took the approach, 'doctor heal thyself.' And we're going to help our customers do better job of having AI be a game changer for them. How do we apply that to ourselves? We heard one our CIOs, CI of AstraZeneca, Dave Smoley, was handing out the Amazon Alexa Echo boxes one Christmas. About three years ago and I'm like, my gosh that's right. That was what Walt Mossberg said in his farewell column. IT is going to be everywhere and invisible at the same time. Right. >> Right. >> It'll be in the walls, so to speak. So we applied AI, starting about two years ago, actually now three, because we shipped Iris a year ago. The artificial intelligence capability inside SnapLogic has been shipping for over 12 months. Fantastic usage. But we applied to ourselves the challenge about three years ago, to use AI based on our born in the cloud platform. On the metadata that we have about people are doing. And in the sense, apply Google Autocomplete into enterprise connectivity problems. And it's been amazing. The AI as you start to snap things together, as you put one or two snaps, and you start to look for the third, it starts to get 98.7% accurate, in predicting how to connect SAS applications together. >> Right. Right. >> It's not quite autonomous integration yet but you can see where we're going with it. So it's starting to do so much value add that most of our customers, leave it on. Even the seasoned professionals who are proficient and running a center of excellence using SnapLogic, even those people choose to have sort-of this AI, on all the time helping them. And that engagement comes from the value that they're getting, as they do these things, they make less mistakes. All the choices are readily at hand and that's happening. So that's one piece of it >> Right. >> Sorry. Let me... >> It's Okay. Keep going. >> Illustrate one other thing. Napoleon famously said, "An army marches on its stomach" AI marches on data. So, what we found is the more data we've had and more customers that we've had, we move about a trillion documents for our customers worldwide, in the past 30 days. That is up from 10 million documents in 30 days, two years ago. >> Right. Right >> That more customers and more usage. In other words, they're succeeding. What we've found as we've enriched our AI with data, it's gotten better and better. And now, we're getting involved with customers' projects where they need to support data scientists, data engineering work for machine learning and that self-service intricate model is letting someone who was trying to solve a problem of, When is my Uber going to show up? So to speak. In industry X >> Right. Right. >> These kinds of hard AI problems that are predictive. That are forward changing in a sense. Those kind of problems are being solved by richer data and many of them, the projects that we're now involved in, are moving data into the cloud for data lake to then support AI machine learning efforts for our customers. >> So you jumped a little bit, I want to talk on your first point. >> Okay. Sorry >> That's okay. Which is that you're in the very fortunate position because you have all that data flow. You have the trillion documents that are changing hands every month. >> Born in the cloud platform. >> So you've got it, right? >> Got it. >> You've got the data. >> It's a virtual cycle. It's a virtual cycle. Some people call it data capitalism. I quibble with that. We're not sort-of, mining and selling people's personal data to anybody. >> Right. Right. >> But this is where, our enterprise customers' are so pleased to work with us because if we can increase productivity. If we can take the time to solution, the time to integration, forward by 10 times, we can improve the speed that by SAS application and it gets into production 10 times faster. That is such a good trade for them and for everyone else. >> Right. Right. >> And it feeds on itself. It's a virtual cycle. >> You know in the Marketo to the Salesforce integration, it's nothing. You need from company A to company B. >> I bet you somebody in this building is doing it on a different floor right now. >> Exactly. >> (laughs) >> So I think that's such an interesting thing. In the other piece that I like is how again, I like your kind of Apple analogy, is the snap packs, right. Because we live in a world, with even though there 91 on-averages, there's a number of really dominant SAS application that most people use, you can really build a group of snaps. Is snap the right noun? >> That's the right word. >> Of snaps. In a snap pack around the specific applications, then to have your AI powered by these trillion transactions that you have going through the machines, really puts you in a unique position right now. >> It does, you know. And we're very fortunate to have the kind of customer support we've had and, sort of... Customer advisory board. Big usages of our products. In which we've added so much value to our customers, that they've started collaborating with us in a sense. And are passing to us wonderful ideas about how to apply this including AI. >> Right. >> And we're not done yet. We have a vision in the future towards an autonomous integration. You should be able to say "SnapLogic, Iris, "connect my company." And it should. >> Right. Right. >> It knows what the SAS apps are by looking at your firewall, and if you're people are doing things, building pipelines, connecting your on-premise legacy applications kind of knows what they are. That day when you should be able to, in a sense, have a bot of some type powered by all this technology in a thoughtful manner. It's not that far. It's closer at hand than people might realize. >> Which is crazy science fiction compared to-- I mean, integration was always the nightmare right back in the day. >> It is. >> Integration, integration. >> But on the other hand, it is starting to have contours that are well defined. To your point, there are certain snaps that are used more. There are certain problems that are solved quite often, the quote-to-cash problem is as old as enterprise software. You do a quote in the CRM system. Your cash is in a financial system. How does that work together? These sort of problems, in a sense, are what McKinsey and others are starting to call robotic process automations. >> Right. >> In the industrial age, people... Stopped, with the industrial age, any handcrafted widget. Nuts, and bolts, and fasteners started being made on machines. You could stamp them out. You could have power driven beams, etc., etc. To make things in industrial manner. And our feeling is, some of the knowledge tasks that feel like widget manufactures. You're doing them over and over again. Or robotic, so to speak, should be automated. And integration I think, is ripe as one of those things and using the value of integration, our customers can automate a bunch of other repeatable tasks like quote-to-cash. >> Right. Right. It's interesting just when you say autonomous, I can't help but think of autonomous vehicles right, which are all the rage and also in the news. And people will say "well I like to drive "or of course we all like to drive "on Sunday down at the beach" >> Sure. Yeah. >> But we don't like to sit in traffic on the way to work. That's not driving, that's sitting in traffic on the way to work. Getting down the 101 to your exit and off again is really not that complicated, in terms of what you're trying to accomplish. >> Indeed. Indeed. >> Sets itself up. >> And there are times you don't want to. I mean one of the most pleasant headlines, most of the news is just full of bad stuff right. So and so and such and such. But one of the very pleasing headlines I saw the other day in a newspaper was, You know what's down a lot? Not bay area housing prices. >> (laughs) >> But you know what's down a lot? DUI arrests, have plummeted. Because of the benefits of Lyft and Uber. More and more people are saying, "You know, I don't have to call a black cab. "I don't need to spend a couple hundred bucks to get home. "I'm just getting a Lyft or an Uber." So the benefits of some of these are starting to appear as in plummeting DUIs. >> Right. Right >> Plummeting fatalities. From people driving while inebriated. Plunging into another car or sidewalk. >> Right. Right. >> So Yes. >> Amara's Law. He never gets enough credit. >> (laughs) >> I say it in every interview right. We overestimate in the short term and we underestimate in the long term the effects of these technologies cause we get involved-- The Gartner store. It's the hype cycle. >> Yeah, Yeah >> But I really I think Amara nailed it and over time, really significant changes start to take place. >> Indeed and we're seeing them now. >> Alright well Gaurav, great to get an update from you and a beautiful facility here. Thanks for having us on. >> Thank you, thank you. A pleasure to be here. Great to see you as well. >> Alright He's Gaurav, I'm Jeff. And you're watching theCUBE from SnapLogic's headquarters Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Narrator: From San Mateo, California, it's theCUBE covering SnapLogic Innovation Day 2018. Brought to you by SnapLogic. >> Hey, welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in San Mateo, California right at the crossroads. The building's called The Crossroads but it's right at the crossroads of 92 and 101. It's a really interesting intersection over the years as you watch these buildings that are on the corner continue to change names. I always think of the Seville, his first building came up on this corner and we're here to see a good friend of SnapLogic and their brand new building. Gaurav Dhillon, Chairman and CEO, great to see you. >> Pleasure to be here. >> So how long you been in this space? >> Gosh, it's been about a year. >> Okay. >> Although it feels longer. It's a high-growth company so these are dog years. (laughs) >> That's right. and usually, you outgrow it before you all have moved in. >> The years are short but the days are long. >> And it's right next Rakuten, I have to mention it. We all see it on the Warriors' jerseys So now we know who they are and where they are exactly. >> No they're a good outfit. We had an interesting time putting a sign up and then the people who made their sign told us all kinds of back stories. >> Oh, good, good Alright. So give us an update on SnapLogic. You guys are in a great space at a really, really good time. >> You know, things been on a roll. As you know, the mission we set out to... engage with was to bring together applications and data in the enterprise. We have some of the largest customers in high technology. Folks like Qualcomm, Workday. Some of the largest customers in pharmaceuticals. Folks like Astrazeneca, Bristol-Meyers Squibb. In retail, Denny's, Wendy's, etc. And these folks are basically bringing in new cloud applications and moving data into the cloud. And it's really fun to wire that all up for them. And there's more of it every day and now that we have this very strong install-base of customers, we're able to get more customers faster. >> Right. >> In good time. >> It's a great time and the data is moving into the cloud, and the public cloud guys are really making bigger plays into the enterprise, Microsoft and, Amazon and Google. And of course, there's IBM and lots of other clouds. But integration's always been such a pain and I finally figured out what the snap in SnapLogic means after interviewing you >> (laughs) a couple of times, right. But this whole idea of, non-developer development and you're taking that into integration which is a really interesting concept, enabled by cloud, where you can now think of snapping things together, versus coding, coding, coding. >> Yeah Cloud and A.I, right We feel that this problem has grown because of the change in the platform. The compute platform's gone to the cloud. Data's going to the cloud. There was bunch of news the other day about more and more companies moving the analytics into the cloud. And as that's happening, we feel that this approach and the question we ask ourselves when we started this company, we got into building the born in the cloud platform was, what would Apple do if they were to build an integration product? And the answer was, they would make it like the iPhone, which is easy to use, but very powerful at the same time. And if you can do that, you can bring in a massive population of users who wouldn't have been able to do things like video chat. My mom was not able to do video chat, and believe me, we tried this and every other thing possible 'till facetime came along. And now she can talk to my daughter and she can do it without help, any assistance from teenage grandchildren on that side, Right? >> Right, Right >> So what we've done with SnapLogic, is by bringing in a beautiful, powerful, sleek interface, with a lot of capability in how it connects, snaps together apps and data, we've brought in a whole genre of people who need data in the enterprise so they can serve themselves data. So if your title has analyst in it, you don't have to be programmer analyst. You could be any analyst. >> Right >> You could be a compensation analyst, a commissions analyst, a finance analyst, an HR analyst. All those people can self-serve information, knock down silos, and integrate things themselves. >> It's so interesting because we talk a lot about innovation and digital transformation, and in doing thousands of these interviews, I think the answer to innovation is actually pretty simple. You give more people access to the data. You give them more access to the tools to work with the data and then you give them the power to actually do something once they figure something out. And you guys are really right in the middle of that. So before, it was kind of >> (laughs) Yeah >> democratization of the data, democratization of the tools to work with the data, but in the API economy, you got to be able to stitch this stuff together because it's not just one application, it's not just one data source. >> Correct >> You're bringing from lots and lots of different things and that's really what you guys are taking advantage of this cloud infrastructure which has everything available, so it's there to connect, >> (laughs) Versus, silo in company one and silo in company two. So are you seeing it though, in terms of, of people enabling, kind of citizen integrators if you will, versus citizen developers. >> Yeah. Heck Yeah. So I'll give you an example. One of our large customers... Adobe Systems, right here in San Jose has been amazingly successful flagship account for us. About 800 people at Adobe come to www.snaplogic.com, every week to self-serve data. We replaced legacy products like DIBCO, informatica web methods about four years ago. They first became a customer in 2014 and usage of those products was limited to Java programmers and Sequel programmers, and that was less than 50 people. And imagine that you have about 800 people doing self-service getting information do their jobs. Now, Adobe is unique in that, it's moved the cloud in a fantastic way, or it was unique in 2014. Now everybody is emulating them and the great success that they've had. With the cloud economic model, with the cloud ID model. This is working in spades. We have customers who've come on board in Q4. We're just rounding out Q1 and in less than 60, 90 days, every time I look, 50, 100, 200 people, from each large company, whether it's a cosmetics company, pharmaceuticals company, retailer, food merchandise, are coming in and using data. >> Right >> And it's proliferating, because the more successful they are, the better they are able to do in their jobs, tell their friends about it sort-of-thing, or next cubicle over, somebody wants to use that too. It's so interesting. Adobe is such a great example, cause they did transform their business. Used to be a really expensive license. You would try to find your one friend that worked there around Christmas >> (laughs) Cause you think they got two licenses a year they can buy for a grand. Like, I need an extra one I can get from you. But they moved to a subscription model. They made a big bet. >> Yes. Yes >> And they bet on the cloud, so now if you're a subscriber, which I am, I can work on my home machine, my work machine, go to machine, machine. So, it's a really great transformation story. The other piece of it though, is just this cloud application space. There's so many cloud applications that we all work with every day whether it's Basecamp, Salesforce, Hootsuite. There's a proliferation of these things and so they're there. They've got data. So the integration opportunity is unlike anything that was ever there before. Cause there isn't just one cloud. There isn't just one cloud app. There's a lot of them. >> Yes. >> How do I bring those together to be more productive? >> So here's a stat. The average enterprise has most cloud services or SAS applications, in marketing. On the average, they have 91 marketing applications or SAS applications. >> 91. That's the average. >> 96% of them are not connected together. >> Right. >> Okay. That's just one example. Now you go to HR, stock administration. You go into sales, CRM, and all the ancillary systems around CRM. And there is this sort of massive, to us, opportunity of knocking down these silos and making things work together. You mention the API economy and whilst that's true that all these SAS applications of APIs. The problem is, most companies don't have programmers to hook up those API's. >> Right. To connect them. >> Yes, in Silicon Valley we do and maybe in Manhattan they do, but in everywhere else in the world, the self-service model, the model of being able to do it to something that is simple, yet powerful. Enterprise great >> Right. Right >> and simple, beautiful is absolutely the winning formula in our perspective. So the answer is to let these 100 applications bloom, but to keep them well behaved and orchestrated, in kind of a federated model, where security, having one view of the world, etc., is managed by SnapLogic and then various people and departments can bring in a blessed, SAS applications and then snap them in and the input and the way they connect, is done through snaps. And we've found that to be a real winning model for our customers. >> So you don't have to have like 18 screens open all with different browsers and different apps. >> Swivel chair integration is gone. Swivel chair integration is gone. >> Step above sneakernet but still not-- >> Step above but still not. And again, it may make sense in very, very specific super high-speed, like Wall Street, high frequency trading and hedge funds, but it's a minuscule minority of the overall problems that there needs to be solved. >> Right. So, it's just a huge opportunity, you just are cleaning up behind the momentum in the SAS applications, the momentum of the cloud. >> Cloud data. Cloud apps. Cloud data. And in general, if a customer's not going to the cloud, they're probably not the best for us. >> Right. >> Right. Our customers' almost always going towards the cloud, have lots of data and applications on premise. And in that hybrid spot, we have the capability to straddle that kind of architecture in a way that nobody else does. Because we have a born in the cloud platform that was designed to work in the real world, which is hybrid. So another interesting thing, a lot of talk about big data over the years. Now it's just kind of there. But AI and machine learning. Artificial intelligence which should be automated intelligence and machine learning. There's kind of the generic, find an old, dead guy and give it a name. But we're really seeing the values that's starting to bubble up in applications. It's not, AI generically, >> Correct. >> It's how are you enabling a more efficient application, a more efficient workflow, a more efficient, get your job done, using AI. And you guys are starting to incorporate that in your integration framework. >> Yes. Yes. So we took the approach, 'doctor heal thyself.' And we're going to help our customers do better job of having AI be a game changer for them. How do we apply that to ourselves? We heard one our CIOs, CI of AstraZeneca, Dave Smoley, was handing out the Amazon Alexa Echo boxes one Christmas. About three years ago and I'm like, my gosh that's right. That was what Walt Mossberg said in his farewell column. IT is going to be everywhere and invisible at the same time. Right. >> Right. >> It'll be in the walls, so to speak. So we applied AI, starting about two years ago, actually now three, because we shipped iris a year ago. The artificial intelligence capability inside SnapLogic has been shipping for over 12 months. Fantastic usage. But we applied to ourselves the challenge about three years ago, to use AI based on our born in the cloud platform. On the metadata that we have about people are doing. And in the sense, apply Google Autocomplete into enterprise connectivity problems. And it's been amazing. The AI as you start to snap things together, as you put one or two snaps, and you start to look for the third, it starts to get 98.7% accurate, in predicting how to connect SAS applications together. >> Right. Right. >> It's not quite autonomous integration yet but you can see where we're going with it. So it's starting to do so much value add that most of our customers, leave it on. Even the seasoned professionals who are proficient and running a center of excellence using SnapLogic, even those people choose to have sort-of this AI, on all the time helping them. And that engagement comes from the value that they're getting, as they do these things, they make less mistakes. All the choices are readily at hand and that's happening. So that's one piece of it >> Right. >> Sorry. Let me... >> It's Okay. Keep going. >> Illustrate one other thing. Napoleon famously said, "An army marches on it's stomach" AI marches on data. So, what we found is the more data we've had and more customers that we've had, we move about a trillion documents for our customers worldwide, in the past 30 days. That is up from 10 million documents in 30 days, two years ago. >> Right. Right >> That more customers and more usage. In other words, they're succeeding. What we've found as we've enriched our AI with data, it's gotten better and better. And now, we're getting involved with customers' projects where they need to support data scientists, data engineering work for machine learning and that self-service intricate model is letting someone who was trying to solve a problem of, When is my Uber going to show up? So to speak. In industry X >> Right. Right. >> These kinds of hard AI problems that are predictive. That are forward changing in a sense. Those kind of problems are being solved by richer data and many of them, the projects that we're now involved in, are moving data into the cloud for data lake to then support AI machine learning efforts for our customers. >> So you jumped a little bit, I want to talk on your first point. >> Okay. Sorry >> That's okay. Which is that you're in the very fortunate position because you have all that data flow. You have the trillion documents that are changing hands every month. >> Born in the cloud platform. >> So you've got it, right? >> Got it. >> You've got the data. >> It's a virtual cycle. It's a virtual cycle. Some people call it data capitalism. I quibble with that. We're not sort-of, mining and selling people's personal data to anybody. >> Right. Right. >> But this is where, our enterprise customers' are so pleased to work with us because if we can increase productivity. If we can take the time to solution, the time to integration, forward by 10 times, we can improve the speed that by SAS application and it gets into production 10 times faster. That is such a good trade for them and for everyone else. >> Right. Right. >> And it feeds on itself. It's a virtual cycle. >> You know in the Marketo to the Salesforce integration, it's nothing. You need from company A to company B. >> I bet you somebody in this building is doing it on a different floor right now. >> Exactly. >> (laughs) >> So I think that's such an interesting thing. In the other piece that I like is how again, I like your kind of Apple analogy, is the snap packs, right. Because we live in a world, with even though there 91 on-averages, there's a number of really dominant SAS application that most people use, you can really build a group of snaps. Is snap the right noun? >> That's the right word. >> Of snaps. In a snap pack around the specific applications, then to have your AI powered by these trillion transactions that you have going through the machines, really puts you in a unique position right now. >> It does, you know. And we're very fortunate to have the kind of customer support we've had and, sort of... Customer advisory board. Big usages of our products. In which we've added so much value to our customers, that they've started collaborating with us in a sense. And are passing to us wonderful ideas about how to apply this including AI. >> Right. >> And we're not done yet. We have a vision in the future towards an autonomous integration. You should be able to say "SnapLogic, Iris, "connect my company." And it should. >> Right. Right. >> It knows what the SAS apps are by looking at your firewall, and if you're people are doing things, building pipelines, connecting your on-premise legacy applications kind of knows what they are. That day when you should be able to, in a sense, have a bot of some type powered by all this technology in a thoughtful manner. It's not that far. It's closer at hand than people might realize. >> Which is crazy science fiction compared to-- I mean, integration was always the nightmare right back in the day. >> It is. >> Integration, integration. >> But on the other hand, it is starting to have contours that are well defined. To your point, there are certain snaps that are used more. There are certain problems that are solved quite often, the quote-to-cash problem is as old as enterprise software. You do a quote in the CRM system. Your cash is in a financial system. How does that work together? These sort of problems, in a sense, are what McKinsey and others are starting to call robotic process automations. >> Right. >> In the industrial age, people... Stopped, with the industrial age, any handcrafted widget. Nuts, and bolts, and fasteners started being made on machines. You could stamp them out. You could have power driven beams, etc., etc. To make things in industrial manner. And our feeling is, some of the knowledge tasks that feel like widget manufactures. You're doing them over and over again. Or robotic, so to speak, should be automated. And integration I think, is ripe as one of those things and using the value of integration, our customers can automate a bunch of other repeatable tasks like quote-to-cash. >> Right. Right. It's interesting just when you say autonomous, I can't help but think of autonomous vehicles right, which are all the rage and also in the news. And people will say "well I like to drive "or of course we all like to drive "on Sunday down at the beach" >> Sure. Yeah. >> But we don't like to sit in traffic on the way to work. That's not driving, that's sitting in traffic on the way to work. Getting down the 101 to your exit and off again is really not that complicated, in terms of what you're trying to accomplish. >> Indeed. Indeed. >> Sets itself up. >> And there are times you don't want to. I mean one of the most pleasant headlines, most of the news is just full of bad stuff right. So and so and such and such. But one of the very pleasing headlines I saw the other day in a newspaper was, You know what's down a lot? Not bay area housing prices. >> (laughs) >> But you know what's down a lot? DUI arrests, have plummeted. Because of the benefits of Lyft and Uber. More and more people are saying, "You know, I don't have to call a black cab. "I don't need to spend a couple hundred bucks to get home. "I'm just getting a Lyft or an Uber." So the benefits of some of these are starting to appear as in plummeting DUIs. >> Right. Right >> Plummeting fatalities. From people driving while inebriated. Plunging into another car or sidewalk. >> Right. Right. >> So Yes. >> Amara's Law. He never gets enough credit. >> (laughs) >> I say it in every interview right. We overestimate in the short term and we underestimate in the long term the effects of these technologies cause we get involved-- The Gartner store. It's the hype cycle. >> Yeah, Yeah >> But I really I think Amara nailed it and over time, really significant changes start to take place. >> Indeed and we're seeing them now. >> Alright well Gaurav, great to get an update from you and a beautiful facility here. Thanks for having us on. >> Thank you, thank you. A pleasure to be here. Great to see you as well. >> Alright He's Gaurav, I'm Jeff. And you're watching theCUBE from SnapLogic's headquarters Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering ServiceNow Knowledge 2018. Brought to you by ServiceNow. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage and we're here at Knowledge18. This is our sixth CUBE at ServiceNow Knowledge. Jeff Frick is my co-host. Jeff when we started covering ServiceNow Knowledge I think it was under 4,000 people. >> The Aria. >> At The Aria, it was a very hip conference, but now we're talking about 18,000 people at K18. How ironic. Sean Convrey is here. He's the Vice President and General Manager of the ServiceNow Security Business Unit. Welcome back to theCUBE, it's good to see you again, Sean. >> It's great to be back. >> So you know I'm a huge fan of your security initiative because you focused what, in our opinion, is really the real problem which is response. You're going to get hacked, you're going to get penetrated. It takes almost a year to find out when somebody has infiltrated your organization, they're exfiltrating data. You guys are focused on that problem. So, really have a lot of hope for this business in terms of addressing some of those challenges. But, give us the update on the ServiceNow Security Business. >> Sure yeah, so the business is continuing to grow nicely. I think we released at the end of 2017 on our earnings report that security and the other emerging businesses met their aggressive sales targets from 2017. So, we're seeing, you know we're into the hundreds of customers stage now. We've got very mature customers that are deployed in production. I think almost 40% of our customer base is Global 2000 so that's one of the benefits of being on the ServiceNow platform is, we aren't perceived as a 1.0 or a 2.0, even though we've only been around for two years, you know people are thinking of us as an application on top of an already very stable platform. >> One of the things we talk about a lot, you and I have talked about is, what's the right regime for security? All to often it's the sec-ops problem, or it's an I.T. problem. You know, we preach that it's a team sport, it's everybody's problem, but when you extend into an organization from whatever ITSM, or whatever it is, to whom to you sell? Who are your constituents? Are they figuring out that right regime? Or is it really still the sec-ops team? >> Yeah, so there's two major use cases in the security operations product. One is focused on security incident response, and that we're definitely selling primarily to the SOC, to the security operations center. But, we have another growing use case on vulnerability response, which is more the proactive side where we're addressing, really just security good hygiene. How do you reduce the attack surface area in your environment by having less vulnerable software in your environment, and that has a very tight tie to I.T. Actually, they both have very tight ties to I.T. Because in almost all cases, I.T. and I.T. operations are the actual execution arm of whatever changes you need to make to your infrastructure in response to something bad happening. >> Right, it's funny because we were at RSA this year, we've gone for a couple years. 40,000 people, that's a crazy big conference, but a couple of really interesting things that came out this year. One is that, you're going to get penetrated, right, so just a whole change of attitude in terms of not necessarily assuming you won't be, but how are you going to react when you are? How are you going to find out? And the other thing that comes up time and time again when you hear about breaches is this hygiene issue. It's, somebody forgot to hit a switch, forgot to do a correct setting, forgot to do a patch, all these really kind of fundamental things that you need to do at a baseline to at least give you a chance to be able to put up a defense against these people. >> We actually just did a study with Ponemon Institute of nearly 3,000 security professionals focused in on this hygiene problem, on vulnerability response, and some of the stats are just staggering. 70% of respondents said security and I.T. don't have the same visibility into applications and systems. 55% said they spend more time coordinating a response among teams manually than they actually do in the act of patching itself. People are losing 12 days per update in manual coordination, because think about it, you've got not just I.T. and security, but you've got GRC team, you've got the business owner, you've got the application owner, it's not just two folks sitting down at the table, it's a huge team looking at a multi-hundred thousand long spreadsheet of vulnerabilities that they're trying to respond to. >> It's funny, we talk often, it's an often quoted stat, how many days have you been penetrated before you figure it out, but what's less talked about is what you just talked about, is once you find out, then what's the delay where you can start taking proactive action and start taking care of all of these things. That's just as complicated, if not more. >> That's what the study actually bore out. So, one of the things we did was, we broke the data up into those that had been breached and those that had not been breached, and it was about 50/50. But, the biggest difference between the ones that had had a breach in the last two years and the ones that didn't, is the ones that had not been breached self-reported they're vulnerability response program as 40% more effective than those that were breached. So, this hygiene thing this is just fundamental. Actually, my personal theory is, it's not as exciting and undertaking. It's much more fun to talk about how Thor'd the bad guy that was knocking at your front door, trying to find a way in. The sort of proactive, you know execution of a strategy to reduce your attack surface area is much less sexy. >> So, we've always talked about that magic number, or scary number, of the number of days that it takes a company to realize they've been penetrated. Whatever, it ranges from 225, I've seen them higher than 300 and it's a couple years in now, and I'm curious as to what kind of data you have within your customer base. Have you been able to compress that time, and as Jeff points out, even more importantly, have you been able to compress the response time? >> So there's two stats I'll give you. One is, for many organizations they had zero reporting within their own organization. So if they were trying to report out, they were in the land of spreadsheets and emails, so they couldn't tell you how big an impact it had. We actually commissioned a study with Forrester. They did a total economic impact, a TEI study, with our sec-ops customers and found out that the average reduction in their incident response time was 45% improvement, or 45% reduction in their response time, which is just dramatic. That's very meaningful to an organization, especially when there's a prediction of an almost two million cyber-security job shortfall in 2019. So there simply aren't the people to solve this problem, even if you could hire your way out of this. >> So what you would expect is if you could reduce that response time, obviously you're freeing up resource, and then hopefully you could create some kind of flywheel effect, in terms of improving the situation. It's early, but what have you seen there? >> That's exactly what we're seeing. So we're seeing people take the things that are painful and frequent and trying to automate those tasks so that they don't occur as often and require people's time. The analogy that I always use is, if you've watched a medical drama, you always see the doctor racing down the hallway, holding up an X-ray to the fluorescent lights and making a call, telling the nurse five milliliters of this or 10 milliliters of that. >> Stat, stat, stat. >> It's always stat. >> Whatever that means. >> They're saving the day right? They're saving the day. That's what a security person wants to feel like. They want to feel like they're making that insightful call, in the moment, and saving the day, but instead, they're the doctor, they're the nurse, they're the orderly, they're the radiologist, they're the administrative people. They have to play all those roles, and what security automation is really about is, let's take those mundane tasks that you don't like anyway, and get rid of them so you can focus on what truly matters. >> It's such an important piece because like I said, RSA, there's 40,000 people, ton of, ton of vendors, and the CISO cannot buy all those solutions, right? And for you guys, to find a place to fit where you can have nice ROI because you just can't buy it all and to me it's kind of like insurance. At some point you just can't buy more insurance, you can just buy and replace whatever it is that you're insuring, so it's a real interesting kind of dilemma, but you have to be secure. You don't want to be in the Wall Street Journal next week. >> Right. >> Tough challenge. >> It's a very tough challenge and the notion that you can find a product to buy for every problem you have is something that the security community, if you go to RSA, it feels that way, right? Like, "Oh I just need to buy another thing." But, organizations have on average 80 security tools already. So, the challenge is how do you actually reframe and think about prioritization in a different way? So we're actually seeing our customers start to take advantage of the governance risk and compliance capability, that are also part of ServiceNow to use risk as a North Star for their security investments rather than just saying, "Oh this is the latest attack so I need to go buy a thing "that stops that attack." Saying instead, what are my most valuable assets? What is the financial impact of a breach to those services? How do I invest accordingly? >> I was watching a CUBE interview, I think it was from KubeCon, John Furry was doing an interview, and the gentleman he was interviewing said, "The problem with security is for years, organizations "thought they could just buy some piece of technology, "install it, and solve the problem." Couldn't be further from the truth, right? So, describe what you're seeing as to those who are successful and best practice as to solving the problem. >> Sure, well that thinking you can buy your way out of the problem goes all the way back to the early days of firewalls. I mean, I remember earlier in my career trying to convince people that a firewall by itself wasn't enough. So we're seeing in organizations that are adopting best practices around response, is they're taking a much more structured approach to how they respond to the most common attacks. Things like, suspected phishing email, right? Processing a phishing email that's reported by an employee, by a user, takes anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes to check manually to see if it really is phishing or not. You know, with ServiceNow Security Operations we can automate that down to seconds and allow that time for an analyst to go back to focusing on maybe a more advanced attack that does require more human ingenuity to be applied. >> Right, the other thing that keeps coming up time and time again within the ServiceNow application and the platform, is you like having lots of different data sources to pull from. You like being kind of that automated overflow and workflow to leverage those investments for the boxes that they do have in the systems and all those things. You want to use them, but how do you get the most value out of those investments as well? >> Exactly, we're seeing that most organizations don't feel that they're getting the value out of the assets that they've already invested in as well. So, to steal one of our CEO's lines, he talks about this idea of one plus one plus one equals magic. The idea that if you can bring together the right pieces of information you can create this transformational outcome and I think with security technology, if we can bring the data and the insights together on a common platform that allows you to investigate in a more automated way, to draw on the insights that you need from the various systems, and then to respond in the right capacity at the right time, it's a completely different way of solving this problem that I think we are just beginning to explore. >> And a whole nother place to apply A.I. And machine learning down the road as well. So, you can start automating the responses at that tier, and a whole nother level of automation to get the crap that I don't need to pay attention to off my screen, so that I can focus on the stuff that's most important. >> Oh absolutely, I think the headroom in the response category of technology, we're just beginning to see what's going to be possible as we continue to go down this path. >> Can you talk about the ecosystem a little bit? Obviously it's critical. Just to be clear, ServiceNow it not trying to replace Palo Alto Networks, you know, or other security tools. You partner with those guys much in the same way as you're not trying to replace Workday and SAP and HR. Talk about that a little bit, the partner ecosystem, how that's growing and what role they play, where they leave off, and where you pick up. >> Absolutely. So, as you said, we're not in the business of building prevention technology, detection technology, we are all about taking the investments you've already made and bringing them together. So, we consider ourselves a neutral player in this market. We integrate with all sorts of different security technologies because again, the goal is, let's take all these insights that are already in the various pieces of infrastructure. You know, we had one of our customers onstage yesterday during our keynote describing swivel chair. This notion of, I'm swiveling from console to console to console and I'm burning time. If you can give me one place where I can bring that data together, it's really valuable. So, we're quite different than many other ServiceNow products in that, it's often not a human being that initiates the request. You know, a human says, "hey my laptop needs help," right? But, in security it's a third party tool that says, "Hey, go take a look at service X, we're seeing "some weird behavior there." >> So, staying on the ecosystem for a minute. You know, big space; security, crowded space. You were just at RSA. >> It was crazy. >> Crazy, tons of startups. When I talk to startups, in fact I was talking to one the other day, it's a phishing startup, guys out of the NSA doing some really interesting stuff. They got to place bets, small companies, and I'm like, "Have you seen what ServiceNow is doing? "It's kind of an interesting play. "You might be able to participate in "that ecosystem someway, somehow." Is it reasonable to think that startups actually can participate, how can they participate? Can they bring their innovation to you? Or are you really looking for established players with an installed base that you can draft off of? >> Sure, we're actually doing both right now. So, you can think about it, you know, being a new player in the security community, credibility is something we are always seeking to grow and develop over time. So, while we really like to integrate with the large, established security vendors that our customers expect us to integrate with, we also love talking to the innovative startups and integrating with them as well. So, we have a whole technology partner program that allows people to tie into the ecosystem. We have a whole business development team at my organization where we work actively with these companies to help them take best advantage of what integrating with ServiceNow can do. >> I think it's key. If you think about the innovation sandwich we often talk about, for years this industry has marched to the cadence of Moore's Law. It was doubling microprocessor speeds every two years that drove innovation. That was nice, that got us a long way, but seems like innovation today is a combination of data, applying machine intelligence, and cloud, cloud economics. And part of cloud economics you get, scale economies, zero marginal costs at volume, but it's also the ability to attract startups. We see that as critical for innovation. Do you agree? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think that the innovation we are seeing in the security world overall, I think is going to continue to grow, as you saw at RSA, there is always another several hundred vendors it seems like, that are out there. And I think we have, as an industry, toyed with the idea of a suite or consolidation. It's always been, next year is going to be this massive consolidation and it's never seemed to really happen and what I'm thinking is this notion of something like what security operations can do from ServiceNow, where you're sort of making a suite by building an abstractional error that integrates all the technology. So you get the benefits of a suite, while still being able to go best of breed with the individual technologies that you want. >> Yeah, consolidation of technologies and becoming safer every year. Those are two things that haven't happened. Hopefully Sean's ServiceNow can help us with that problem. Put a bow on Knowledge18. What's the takeaway? >> The takeaway for us is that security automation and security orchestration is now here, right? Two years ago, the conversation was "What is ServiceNow doing in security?" Now my conversations with customers are, "I understand, I'm looking at this market overall. "I see the value that it can provide to me." We've got customers on stage, we've got customers leading sessions that are talking about their own transformational experience. So I think the technology is here. Gardner has labeled this category: security orchestration, automation, and response. Which is big for the industry overall. So I think it's here now, and I think we've got a great capability tying into a common platform and of course tightly tying to I.T., where many of our 4,000 customers already are using ServiceNow. >> Who's your favorite superhero? >> Wolverine, no doubt. >> John: Alright, you know why I'm asking. (laughing) >> I don't know why you're asking. >> Oh come on, you're the one that told me that all security guys, when they're little kids, they dreamed about saving the world, so you've got to have a favorite superhero. >> Well, Wolverine's a pretty dark guy, I don't know that that works very well. >> Sells more movies. (laughing) Sean, thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks so much. >> Alright, keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE live from ServiceNow Knowledge18. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE covering Grace Hopper's Celebration of women in computing. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here at theCUBE. We're at the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing, the best name in tech conferences. 18,000 women here in Orlando, filling up the Orange County Conference Center. We're excited to be here for our fourth year, and part of the whole program is getting some of the leadership from AnitaB.org on to give us an update and we're really excited to have Elizabeth Ames. She's the SVP of Marketing and Alliances and Programs but we just think of her as Elizabeth at AnitaB.org. So, Elizabeth, great to see you. >> Great to be here. >> Absolutely >> We're thrilled to have you here at the Celebration. >> I can't believe it's been four years. I've been telling so many people. There are still so many people that have never been here. I was amazed at the keynote, the first day, there was the call, the houselights went up, how many people it's their first time, and as big as this conference is, as much the people that know it love it, there's still a lot of people that have not been exposed to this show. >> It's absolutely the case. We have every year it seems like more and more sort of first timers. Which is great because we love to have them come but we'd love to have them come back. I think it's really an expression of how this issue has become a big issue and that the women are really engaged and excited and they want to be a part of it, so it's great. >> The other thing I don't think a lot of people know is there's obviously a lot of recruiting going on, there's a lot of young people here which is really what I think gives it its flavor, but we had Workday on. They said they had 140 people here from Workday. I talked to a guy last night at dinner from Google, I think they had 180 people and I said to her, "Do you have any show "that you bring that many people to "that's not your own show, so the amount of investment" And then I said, it's all young, fresh out of school No, it's all ranges, all ages. So again, I think there's a lot going on here that people are just not that exposed to. >> Yeah, that's absolutely true. So, if you look at our attendance overall, about 70% are industry and a lot of those are companies that are bringing their women and some of them are their younger women who have maybe been in the firm, in the company for a year or two or three or something like that, but the place where a lot of women drop out of the industry is more mid-career and so I think more and more companies are seeing this as a way to help their mid-career women recommit to the field and make those connections with the community at large and get a little bit more reinvigorated so we definitely see companies bringing all kinds of women out of their organization, and they like to bring a mix, so that they have some of their senior women that are sort of mentoring women who are mid-career or women who are more junior and it just gives them a really good mix. And then about 30% of our attendees are academic, we call it academic, but it's primarily students, so undergraduate, graduate, post doc, and research type people, and then some amount of professors and teaching assistants, those types of people. >> Yeah, and I really think it's the youth that give this show its special vibe. I mean there's a lot of great keynotes and some fantastic stories and really great global representation, a ton of African representation. But I do think it's the youth, it's the youngsters that bring a really unique and positive energy that you don't really see at many other conferences. >> Yeah, and I think part of that is that the community at large, you know women that are in the field they care about the women coming up and they want them to succeed and they want them to have every single opportunity so everybody's kind of invested in them and interested in nurturing and helping them along. So it does create this really, I don't know, positive environment, right. We always jokingly say there's a reason we call it a celebration. We don't call it a conference, we call it a celebration. >> Everyone's a delegate too. I like that too. It's not attendees. And that's come up on a number of interviews too where when people have reflected back on people that have helped them along the way the payback, it's almost like it's been scripted is, OK, now you need to do this to the next person to really pay it forward and that again is a consistent theme that we have also heard from the keynotes earlier today, that it is about paying it forward, which is funny because sometimes you'll hear kind of a catty women reputation that they're trying to keep each other down, you know that that was kind of a classic, another hurdle that women had to face in the professional world that they weren't necessarily supporting each other, and that is not the case here, at all. It's very much a supportive environment. >> We may have a self selection bias going on here >> Well that's okay >> But I think there's nothing but support for one another in the community and everybody recognizes that we all have to pull together. >> Right. So interesting times at AnitaB.org, the organization that puts on Grace Hopper, change of leadership, we had Brenda on, so kind of a fresh face, fresh energy. Telle. I'm going to see if I can get her a horse tomorrow to ride off into the sunset if the sun breaks out here in Orlando, so it's exciting times. It's a time of transition, always a little kind of mixed feelings, but also tremendous excitement and kind of new chapter, if you will. So tell us a little bit about what's going on at AnitaB.org >> It's an incredibly exciting time. First of all, a nod to Telle. She's been at the helm for 15 years. She's seen an incredible amount of growth. She took this on really as a favor to her dear dear friend and then took on the mantle upon Anita's death. She's done an amazing job. She's certainly an icon within the community overall I'm sure you'll hear more from her in the future. It's been great. Brenda is new fresh face. She has accomplished some pretty amazing things with the Chicago Public Schools. She's really invigorated to step into this space and it's great having her. I think the thing that you really, hopefully you got from her when she was here is that she is just this incredibly genuine person. She's lived the experience. She can relate to what all of these women have gone through. She has this profound commitment to make things different. And just the biggest heart that you could possibly imagine. >> Right, and a little chip on her shoulder. Which she talked about and it's come up time and time again where when people are told they can't do things for a lot of people, there's no greater motivator than being told you can't do this, you shouldn't do this, you're not qualified. She said "I've been in positions "where I've been told I can't be there." So to have that little chip on her shoulder I think is a real driver for many folks. >> It is. We recently did a little written piece it hasn't actually gotten published yet where we kind of went back and looked at a lot of the language that we're hearing today about women are not biologically suited to be programmers or women aren't this or women aren't that. And we did this little let's look back historically, and when did women get certain rights, and one of the things that really stood out for us in looking at that was women weren't admitted to all of the premier colleges, Harvard, Yale, whatever, until the 1960s. Which is kind of shocking when you think about it. >> Yeah, it's like yesterday practically. >> The language that was used at the time was almost identical to the language that we're hearing today. Women weren't biologically suited for this, it's really not in the right makeup for them. And yet today, half the students at those schools are women. And women have earned their way there. I just kind of laughingly say it's like deja vu all over again. We've heard all of that. we've heard people tell us you can't do that, you shouldn't do that, no you're not welcome and I think women they're not going to back down. >> It's interesting times too, because the classic gates, the distribution gate, the financing gate, the investment gate, to build companies, to create companies, they've all been broken down and kudos or serendipitously computing is the vehicle that's broken down a lot of those traditional barriers. You used to be, you couldn't start a new company because you had to get into distribution. You couldn't be a writer, there was only a few newspaper editors that controlled everything. That's all completely changed and now ubiquitous distribution, democratization of software, open source, you don't have to raise a bunch of money and buy a bunch of servers. It's so much easier to go out and affect the world and there's no easier way to affect the world than writing a great piece of software. >> Yeah, I think you're spot on on that. There's so much more leverage out there for people that want to start something. I believe that will accrue to the advantage of women. I always end up saying women are going to do great things and then I have to stop myself and say they are doing great things today. I think we've seen that already with some of the keynotes. Fei-Fei Li, and yet you hear her story as an immigrant and as a mother, as an Asian woman. She's had her challenges and she told her personal story not like with a woe is me but with a clear eye towards the things that she had to overcome to get where she was. >> And a lot of hard work, just a flat out a lot of hard work including working at the dry cleaners while she was going to school. >> Yeah, exactly. And yet there she is, one of the leaders in that space and doing incredible things. So I think you're starting to hear more and more about those women. I think they've always been there. I think that we just don't hear as much about them. So, this venue is such a great opportunity for us to hear more of their stories. >> Right, and we learned a lot about that last year with the whole Hidden Figures thing that we had on here as well as the movie and that was again, in the 60's. So we're in October, it's kind of the end the year. As you look forward to 2018, what are some of your priorities for AnitaB.org? I won't put you on the hook to tell us where Grace Hopper will be next year. You can tell us if you want. >> I saw it posted at Pride someplace. >> Is it posted already? >> I saw that and it was like whoa, I didn't know that was in the wild yet. >> But give us kind of a look. What are your priorities for next year? I know AVI Local has been a thing that's been growing over time. What are you kind of looking at as you're doing your 2018 planning? >> As amazing as it is to have 18,000 people here, which just blows our mind, we hope it continues to grow. We also know that no matter how big this conference gets that not everyone will be able to come here for a variety of reasons and so building out the local communities and making it so that, empowering those local communities to have smaller versions of this type of thing and growing this movement to a bigger scale that really encompasses all the women that are out there because even though people here say "Oh, 18,000 women, holy cow" it's a tip of the iceberg. There are thousands and thousands more women out there, we know there are. We really want to find a way to reach every single one of them and bring support and connection and inspiration to every single one of them so that they stay in the field, can achieve their dreams and their highest potential. That will have an impact on them and on the communities they live in. That's really what our focus is. >> Well, Elizabeth, again. Always great to see you. Congratulations on a phenomenal conference. And thank for inviting us to be here. It's really, honestly, one of our favorite places to be. >> We love having you here. I would just end by saying all you people out there, come join us next year. >> There you go. Are you going to tell them where? >> Houston, Texas. >> In Houston. - Back in Houston. >> Good barbecue. Ask me, I'll tell you where to go. Alright, she's Elizabeth Ames. I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from the Grace Hopper Celebration of Women in Computing 2017. Thanks for watching. [Upbeat Techno Music]

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube! Covering Grace Hopper's celebration of women in computing, brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. (upbeat techno music) >> Welcome back to theCube's coverage of the Grace Hopper conference, here in Orlando. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my co-host, Jeff Rick. We're joined by Erin Yang. She is the VP of Technology Product Management for Workday. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Of course, thank you for having me. >> So tell us a little bit about what you do at Workday and what are the most exciting projects you're working on right now? >> All right, so I lead up our Technology Product Management team at Workday, and so for those of you who might not have heard of Workday, we are a leading cloud provider for financial management, human capital management, analytical applications. Been around since 2005, I've been there for the last six years and I would say the technology is such an exciting part of the company and one of the things that really drew me there so a lot of people don't the original story around workday but when we started we had this amazing mix of really experienced leaders who had been in the enterprise space before, who had built a lot of these products before. Combined with cloud technologies, just taking off and no one had really done the HCM and the cloud before financials in the cloud and so they were able to completely start over, we like to say with a clean sheet of paper, with new technologies but having experience in the industry and build from there. So we have a single technology platform that powers all of our different applications and that's the part of the company that I sit on. >> So you're really in the core technology that's driving the application. Desired technology NOD, ATM or one of the other sets. >> So the things that my team really looks after are security, integration, our infrastructure, the common data model and the common work flow that goes across the different applications. And the fact that we can have a single platform that connects all the applications, makes it so much easier for our customers and that's really been the philosophy of the company, which is customers first. We really focus on making our customers happy and so one of our company goals is always hitting 95% customer satisfaction, which is really unheard of in the enterprise industry when most people are not super happy with those products. And we've been able to hit 97% in the last year that we did the surveys. >> It's an interesting part of the SAS model because unlike a traditional enterprise software sale, they make the sale, they collect the 15%. But you're getting paid monthly I assume and maybe it's an annual contract. So you have to keep delivering value each and every single month cause you don't have this long term, big giant, enterprise license. >> It's a subscription revenue model. It's no more of a you deliver a product, then you don't think about it anymore. It's a continuous partnership with our customers. And I think that's why the relationship matters so much with our customers, they're stuck with us to a certain extent and we want to make sure that they're happy, that they're getting the value that they wanted out of the product and then we can also grow with them. And so one of the interesting parts of our technology is that we actually abstract the application and business logic from the technology itself through a meta data language that we've built out internally. And so we've been able to swap out our persistence technology, change the way that we store data, scale our transactions without our customers even knowing it. So that's kind of one of the beautiful parts of the way that our architecture was designed. >> So it's the architecture but then what else are you doing to hit that 97%. The key is empathizing with your customer. >> We spend a lot of time with our customers, that's one of the big points, almost every single product, every single feature that we build has a design partner program where we literally are with our customers, understanding what their pain points are and figuring out how can we solve those pain points in the product. And on the fact that we're pure SAS, so we just have one version that every customer has. So if we're improving the product for one customer, we're improving it for all of our customers. And so we're able to just focus on that single version instead of splitting our attention across old versions and maintaining old systems. >> So shifting gears a little bit to Grace Hopper specifically. You talked about, before we turned on the cameras that Workday made a big investment in Grace Hopper this year and you brought a huge contingent of people. I think its interesting and I think a lot of people know that there's a lot of hiring that goes on. I don't know that everyone knows as a development opportunity where companies bring large contingents. I wonder if you can speak to one. What is the value that you guys made this investment in this show around people that already work for Workday. >> So ultimately we're here because at Workday, we really believe in diversity, being good for our business, being good for our people. It helps us make better decisions, helps us build better products, we're more creative and it helps the bottom line. I think there's a lot of research out there now. And so at Grace Hopper we think this is the best way because it's such a big event to improve all aspects of the talent pipeline. So it's not just the hiring coming in from college, which we are definitely doing but it's also bringing, we have over 130 employees who came here from Workday and all walks in their careers. So some newer more junior people and some more experienced people. And we really think that the networking that they can do here, the sessions that they can come to to do professional development and learn. One of our sessions is how to get out of that middle management quagmire. How do they continue moving up and forward in their careers. It's not just that entry point into that junior entry level position. >> So what an investment. Outside of your own event, I would imagine that's probably the biggest presence you have at any tech event. >> I think it is, I haven't heard of us having more than 130 people at any other event. And it's a big investment especially because our big customer conference is next week. (laughs) We're all busy with that but this is a important enough event for us, both for college recruiting, both for professional developments and for, like I said, building that network even within the women who are here at Workday because we're a bigger company now and this is a good opportunity for us all to strengthen those relationships and we have eight employees who are speaking in sessions and that's a great experience as well. To get up on stage, to build your presence, learn how to speak and communicate and challenge yourself in that way. >> What would you say has been the biggest challenges in your career and your someone who grew up in the bay area, went to the same high school Steve Jobs, Stanford graduate, working in this industry for a while now. What would you say you've learned along the way in terms of overcoming challenges. >> I would say I've had a lot of opportunities growing up and I would say some of the biggest challenges though are the impressions that people might have of you that you need to overcome >> Okay interesting. >> And so for me it's like, first you start off as a female and so people think you might be leaning towards certain areas and so starting from when I was young I got a rush out of defying expectations that people had of me and maybe that's how I have ended up to where I am today. But I like to surprise people but some people don't like that and so I can see that being a challenge for some women if they're saying I really like math and technology and science and if it gets them odd looks or even just a lack of support, they might, start backing off and start thinking they may be better suited for something else. But for me I actually really liked the challenge, it made me more excited to overcome that and say hey, I can be a woman, I want to surprise more people, I want to get into Stanford and do electrical engineering cause that's not going to be the expected path that others have of me and I want to show that I can do it. And it's been really nice to see more and more female role models who have stories like that. Because then you start making it the norm so that if someone really is hesitant on whether they should or shouldn't be going down that path if they see other women who've been strong and achieved many things that they were able to do that. >> Before the cameras were rolling, you were also talking about your experience at Workday and mentorships and the sponsors that you've received. Can you tell our viewers a little bit more about your experience. >> I think that's been a big part of my journey at Workday. I started off as the product manager for our collaboration team. It was my first time doing product management only six years ago and my manager at that time, he really believed in me and combine that with the fact that we're at a fast growing company we were only 900 people at that point. I told you we're over 7000 now, lots of opportunities were coming up. He was able to say, there's this other opportunity around our extensibility area, which was totally unrelated to collaboration but he's like, you've down well with what I gave you over here, why don't you try this? And it was not something I would personally volunteer for cause I actually didn't think that I was capable of doing it. But he's like, no, I believe in you, I think you can do it, I've already advocated for you that you should take on this role. And so I stepped into it, did a good enough job for them to say, okay we're going to keep investing in her. And that manager continued to really put me forward for other opportunities and then when he switched roles he nominated me to be his successor for leading the whole team and so he's been a really major part of my career progression here at Workday and I think having someone who can be there to advocate for opportunities for you, and also teach you how to navigate and organization, who are the key decision makers, who do you need to influence, what are the relationships you need to build. All of that is such valuable knowledge to have that you may not know otherwise. A mentor might not even be able to do that for you but someone who's really sponsoring you can. >> Well Erin thanks so much for joining us here in the cube, its been great talking to you. >> Thank you so much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Jeff Rick, we will have more from Grace Hopper just after this. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering ServiceNow Knowledge17, brought to you by ServiceNow. >> And we're back in Orlando, everybody, this is Dave Vellante with Jeff Frick, CJ Desai is here, he's the Chief Product Officer of ServiceNow, the newly-minted, 150 days in, CJ, great to see you off the keynote, fantastic job. >> Thank you, thank you, thank you. >> Very crisp, I was struck by your story about last October, when you were contacted by ServiceNow, you fired up the platform and started playing around and built an app. >> Yeah! (chuckling) >> And you found it was a good experience. >> It was a great experience, I'll tell you, Dave, from my standpoint, when you join a company that is built on a platform like ServiceNow, you want to make sure that you feel great about the foundational elements, because as always, you can build floors on top of a foundation, only when the foundation is strong. So ServiceNow always, I don't know if you know, but it started out as a platform company, and then they used the service management use case, and went deep in that use case, and then went to Operations Management and other products, as you know, and I just wanted to make sure that, hey, how easy it is, if I'm a customer, or if I'm in the product development organization, to create an app, and having that strong foundational layer, even simple things like, it's the cloud offering, first of all, you have a integrated development environment, you can start creating workflows, UI, all of that is so easy, and there's no headache of figuring out how to deploy the app, because it's right there, so you just publish it and you're done. >> Yeah, it's interesting, one of the first CUBE interviews we did at Knowledge was with Doug Leone, the famous VC, and he told the story of, he saw this, "What am I going to do with this?" And sent Fred away and said, "Build something on top of it," and that's what happened, but. But help our audience understand, CJ, because you talked about Jakarta today. >> Yeah. >> Now, Jakarta is a platform capability, and if we understand it correctly, we were talking about it earlier, the business units have to figure out, "Okay, how do we apply that capability "to our particular needs, and our customer needs," so explain that. >> Yeah, so ultimately, there are two things that happens in the products organization, right? First is, we do release this every six months, twice a year, so every six months, twice a year, and we go by alphabets, and we pick cities, just a fun factoid, we pick cities that go from North America or South America, to Europe, to Asia. So, H released last year, around this time, was Helsinki, after Helsinki was Istanbul, and then we have Jakarta, so are now in Asia, and then next will be Kingston, and the one after that is London, so you go alphabetically, and the reason we pick this city names in alphabets, we support our customers, because it's a multi-instance paradigm, n minus one and n minus two releases, so when you make, name of the cities, customers will have a conversation with me and say, "CJ, we went on Helsinki, we're upgrading to Istanbul, "or we're going to skip Istanbul, "and go straight to Jakarta," for example, so, first of all, that's our naming system that we use, every six months, you will see us talk about a specific release, and you heard from John yesterday, he was very clear in saying, "Listen, "our customers want to hear our roadmap, "they want to know what we are up to," and so we took that customer feedback to heart, and decided, why don't we just tell them what's coming in Jakarta? So Jakarta will be released this summer, and from a planning standpoint, Dave, to answer your question, we figure out first, what do our customers want, and is it in the applications that we talked about, like ITSM or CSM or security or HR, and for those applications to deliver the functionality, what do we need to do in the platform so that the functionality can be delivered? So the requirement process is a complex requirement process, the applications team will give requirements to the platform, customers also sometimes have requirements for the platform on scale, platform will build a functionality, applications team will build the features on top of it, so in Jakarta, which is coming out this summer, we have six new products, you saw some of them, software asset management and others, 30 major features, and that's close, so after Jakarta, we're already in planning for Kingston. After Kingston, I think I'm going to announce it for the first time, will be London, so it's Jakarta, Kingston, London, are the three-- >> Yeah, so when we go to these events, a lot of times, at the keynotes, somebody will make a product announcement and you get a little golf clap, it always happens at ServiceNow Knowledge that you get somebody hooting in the audience, today, the hoot came for software asset management, they were the three high level things you talked about today, performance with UX, and performance, and then the vendor risk management, which is very interesting, we'll talk about that a little bit, and then the software asset management, the guy must've been an Oracle customer hooting and hollering. But so, give us the high level overview. >> Alright, so, here is the thing, right? Our buyer is IT organization, we started with IT. We love our buyer, and CIO, to all the organizations that support CIO, head of infrastructure, the portfolio management team, the business management within IT. And one of the things that we saw, and this is the requirement that we got is, when we talk to CIOs about how to make the IT organization productive, because IT, it's a tough job, man, it's a tough job, things go down, you're like, "Okay, of course, IT," and technology's such an integral part of our life that people are always looking at IT to make sure they deliver great technologies. So, IT budget, and every, debated this all the time, everybody talks about IT budgets, what's happening to IT budgets, how the IT budget is going up or down, are you asked to do more with less, there are so many examples I can use, but as per Gartner, 25% of the IT budget is on software licensing. Then there is hardware and all the other infrastructure and people-related cost. 25%, so if, and as you know, some of the vendors put you through a pretty complex audit process, so why can't we, our chief buyer is IT, why can't we give them a platform, or a product, that allows them to discover how many products you are using by vendor, Microsoft, Oracle, some of you examples you used, for desktop, it's Adobe and others, you use these products, are you really utilizing all the licenses you have, or are you potentially in overage so that you actually have a sense of where you stand with every vendor that you're using that makes up your 25% budget. We talk to financial customers, manufacturing industrial customers, these are billions of dollars of budget, 25% is still a big number, any improvement in that 25% could go a long way, and what CFOs do not like is when CIOs go and tell the CFO, "Hey, we didn't clear this audit, "or potentially these guys may sue us "for a contract violation," so we decided we are going to create a product that helps you get a good posture on what your licensing is, does that make sense? And that's why, you know, I also saw on Twitter, a lot of people love this idea that, hey, can we automate this software as a management process, discover what's being deployed, allow you to reclaim, and at the end, help you save the cost. >> And the other one was the cloud management platform, which again, similar type of situation, especially with all the freemium services, and test dev, and card swiping, that they can get unruly pretty quickly. >> In my last job, as you are aware, I was in infrastructure space, and one of the things in speaking to customers, always realized that hey, IT was not agile enough, we decided, for some customers, we decided to go and use some of the public cloud services, re-enter infrastructure, because IT could not keep up with our demands, and you go and speak to IT, they say there is so much going on that sometimes it's not easy for devops communities, in particular, that you pointed out, so much going on. So, IT felt like they were losing control, developers, whether they're application developers in IT organization or in business units, just wanted agility, and IT felt like if they cannot deliver that level of service, you had the share-to-IT functions going on in the departments, and with cloud, we acquired a company called iTapp about a year ago in April. The first year was all focused on re-platforming, like I said today, I think many times, I'm sure people got sick of listening to me, is, we are going to re-platform every acquisition that we make, and we usually buy technologies in our business so far. And we re-platform it, and now, IT gets the control back, once for, you know, you help the developers, devops people, sure, go and use public cloud, but IT will still have a single pane of glass that allows you to look at your resource mapping, utilization, understanding the cost and the usage, whether you are on public cloud service, or in private cloud service. >> Well, it's huge, because it's very unpredictable, and people often complain, "Oh, I get the cloud bill at the end of the month," but a lot of times, there's not just one cloud bill, it's many, many cloud bills, and what happens, you know, you remember this, in the downturn, a lot of CFOs said, "Go to the public cloud, "eliminate Capax" and then, when we came out of the downturn, lines of business said, "I got to move fast, "and this cloud thing seems to be working for me." IT seems to have really, you know, in previous big picture trends like this, mega trends, IT oftentimes has been sort of pushing back, you saw that with client server. >> Yeah, their security concerns, compliances-- >> And today, they're announcing, okay, we have to embrace cloud, or we're toast. >> And Dave, I'll tell you, there are customers, I mean, some very large customers in regulated industries who tell me that, "CJ, we are now cloud first, "before we decide to do something," I mean, that's a pretty big statement, cloud first, I mean, if you remember 2008, '09, '10, '11, '12, '13, that journey, and how customers were reluctant, and they're like, "I don't know, my data losing from here," and this and that-- >> Well, I got to bring this up, so, I was reading an article on SiliconANGLE, EMC World is going on, Dell EMC World this week, and Michael Dell basically made this statement in his keynote, "If you're a cloud first, "you could be in trouble because of the expanse," and so forth. I don't buy it. I think the other, I love you, Michael, but the value that customers are getting out of going cloud-first, maybe, yeah, maybe the bill at the end of the month is high, but the other residual effects on your business, the speed, the agility, the processes, you're seeing it, aren't you? >> I mean, I'll tell you straight up, there are customers that are asking us, because, you know, again, IT's our key buyer, and key customer, and we appeal to the IT department, and the CIOs, even at the CIO dinner the night before, people are embracing cloud. Now, they are on a journey, some of them have maybe mode few percent of their workload, some of them may have mode a little higher, but they're on some journey, and they're trying to balance when the cost pros out with the cons, or the cons out with the pros, but, can you give us some kind of control plane to manage our cloud resources, understand the usage, understand the billing, which we do for financial management, and tie-in with IT processes, because that resource life cycle, that VMU provision, right, that VMU provision in the cloud, what happens to the life cycle of VM, can you create an incident, can you close it out, that's equally important besides just saying, "Yeah, I'm going to move this particular workload to cloud." So I feel that customers are on this journey of some kind of combination of public and private cloud, and it doesn't have to be zero-sum game, infrastructure continues to grow, I don't feel like, okay, if you do this, that means you do not do private, or if you do private, that doesn't mean-- >> Certainly both, and containers are going to just exacerbate the problem. >> Right, and the demand for compute, store, and networking is not going down any time soon. >> I'll tell you, my role environment, so my team lends cloud infrastructure, so our platforms runs on cloud infrastructure, and you saw some of the elevated numbers, I mean, our growth, we are trying to invest in compute network storage ahead of our growth, so it's not, and we are a cloud service, so I always look at it as, this doesn't have to be zero-sum game, customers are expanding, they want the agility, like you said, the agility, the business is asking, "Can you develop this app faster, "can you give me what I need," is what's driving-- >> It's a topline game for businesses, Jeff, I just want to inject some of those numbers on your cloud, 50,000 instances, 150 million active users, and 10 billion transactions per month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, but I want to get, it's funny you're talking about Jakarta and London, I remember when we were doing interviews around Dublin, which I guess was a while ago, but I'm curious, 'cause there's this other trade-off, and get your perspective, is in a devops world, in kind of a continuous integration and development world, people want to push code frequently. On the other hand, in an enterprise world, and we've talked to a couple of customers, they can only take it so much, and so you've kind of got this yin and yang, and you want to get stuff out, and there's patches, and this and that, and you're on a relatively aggressive for current enterprise release schedule, on the other hand, the trend is clearly, just keep pumping it out, pumping it out, pumping it out, how do you see that kind of sorting itself out over time with these big enterprise customers? >> I will tell you, from a technology standpoint, there is nothing that prevents us from doing more frequent releases, yes, we have to mature our product release processes, we have to mature our cloud operations and how fast we can churn the code. There is nothing that prevents us, technically, from instead of two releases a year, maybe do four releases, it doesn't! But our customers, and we talk about customers first, listening to customers, you saw John today, I mean, we want to listen to them, and they will tell us, that I was at a large financial institution in Boston two weeks ago, and, your hometown, and they told me that, "I cannot do every six months, "I cannot do every six months, CJ, "we usually skip a release," right? And so we are just listening for specific use cases around service management, the processes, customer-run, same thing with operations management, right now, six months about feels right, every six months, release, we do quarterly patches, where we do not release features in those quarterly patches, and for emerging products, like you saw customer service, they challenge security, the team did a great job, when I look at those releases, is it potentially can we push things fast? Maybe, but right now, I'm okay, based on customer feedback. If customers come and say, "I want every three months," I hope to see what does that mean-- >> Let me run something by you, I told Jeff I've been sharing cabs with practitioners all week, it's great to just have wonderful conversations, and one said to me, "I've asked ServiceNow "if they can give me more granularity in the releases," I said, that doesn't sound trivial, in other words, if I can selectively choose features, is that even technically feasible? >> I mean, this is the isolating the feature, micro-feature development, making sure your schema is abstracted enough, I mean, there are companies in consumer world who do that, and push code out really fast. I would say, right now, one of the requirements I do get is, we're on IT service management, we have been a customer of ServiceNow for a while, but on this other thing, say, customer service, or HR, I want to take the new features, so my IT service management is at, say, Helsinki, but I want to take the HR, like the onboarding you saw, the onboarding, which is in Jakarta. So does that mean I need to upgrade this thing to leverage the HR feature? The answer is yes, because it's all built on single platform. Now, I do not want to do where customers, we give them two instances, and then we do a back-end pipe integration, a connector, so you can be on Helsinki for ITSM, and Jakarta, that-- >> Architecturally-- >> That breaks our model, and I do not want to do that. There are companies who, say, reside in different tenant, and will give you one for, I do not want to do that. >> I wanted to ask you about this too, CJ, because, you have a dogma, you have your own cloud, you see a lot of SaaS companies now saying, okay, you see Workday, a little bit of Salesforce, certainly Infor, putting their applications on AWS, for example. You guys, very proud of your cloud, you have availability, and I think when you show availability numbers, you downplay it, actually, people don't understand this, you're talking about application availability, you're not talking about the server light-- >> No. >> Okay, so you're very dogmatic about your cloud, and this issue here, you won't do something that maybe is going to help one customer but is going to ruin the experience down the road for all, and that dogma, is that a valid, it's not a criticism, it's an observation, and is that a good thing? >> So I would say there are some design principles, or operational principles that we live with, and we are going to stick to them, like we talk about acquisitions and re-platforming, think about, Dave, you have somebody coming in, you acquire a machine learning company, really smart kids, really smart people, machine learning or data sciences, an art more than a science, and looking at prediction accuracies and things like that. Now you tell them, "Welcome to ServiceNow, "here's your badge, you just got onboarded, "it's great what you've built, "we are not going to sell that standalone, "you need to re-platform," which typically takes one year, "Before we can launch your product." That's a tough message. That's a tough message for an engineering team to hear, that now I have to figure out how does this platform work, I mean, if I had a magic bullet, I would tell you, if I can wave the magic wand, I'll say, acquire this technology in machine learning AI, combine that with our organic development, it's a re-platform and I have a toolkit that does this thing, and it is a re-platform, but that's not easy. So on these kind of principles, whether it's re-platforming, how we do the releases, how we look at the cloud, and I want to answer your public cloud question. Right now, as you know, we're active, active, I've seen your interviews in the past here, we're active, active, we have eight pair of data centers, 16 around the world, and we make sure with our multi-instance architecture, the availability of the uptimes are very high for our customers, and when they upgrade, we know, they can pull the upgrade, "I'm going, CJ, "from Helsinki to Istanbul, or Helsinki to Jakarta," and that's available, but, can we potentially look at moving our footprint, and renting infrastructure in a public cloud? I'll never say never, but right now, there is no need for it. >> No, you see it, and there are advantages to having your own cloud. I want to ask about your role as Chief Product Officer. Fred Luddy had that title, we were sort of joking earlier, Fred was a coder, the company brought Frank in for adult supervision, and so you're inheriting that title, but I sense that you're a different type of manager, what do you bring to ServiceNow? >> I'll tell you, first of all, Fred, Frank, and even Dan McGee, who had this role last year, he was here, I saw his interview, he's here today, phenomenal people, I mean, I have interacted with all three of them, Dan McGee helped me transition into my role, Frank hired me, and just great, great guy, and even with Fred, going through this user experience, how do I think about the user experience based on the persona, he's always there to provide input with lots and lots energy and feedback. So let me just tell you for, in less than 30 seconds, what my role is, right? My role is, I help platform team, and the cloud infrastructure team, that's lead by Pat Casey, who is doing CreativeCon tomorrow, I have individual application general managers that you saw some of them today, and I also have the customer support organization, and the user experience teams. So that's my overall responsibility, so it's the responsibility that Fred Luddy had til last October, and Dan McGee had til last December, combined into one. So, it's a big job, and it comes with a lot of responsibilities on behalf of our customers, you talk about high availability number, we help to make sure that we keep our cloud service up and running secure, but at the same time, bringing this innovation in platform and the applications is my job. So, I'd done, fortunately, when I started out of college, makes me sound old, I know, but when I came out of college, I worked for a company that was doing business applications for a long time, eight years there, and I worked in that applications technology team, I worked in the CRM applications, did things for financial applications, and I went on security software, understanding how you protect the applications you write, all the way from OS up to the application stack, and then I worked for a infrastructure company, as you know. So that gave me a really good feel on the entire stack, how do you scale that stack, and be maniacally focused on, what do customers want? I mean, I am very fortunate to have great customer relationships, many companies around the globe, I reach out to them, ask them, tell me what you think, tell me what we are doing well, so customer focus, having done product development for 20-plus years now, and understanding all the way from application stack to the underlying infrastructure, is where I can help-- >> Yeah, it's like a triple threat that you have, the product innovation, the enterprise class, security, and scaling, as you mentioned, very, very important. Alright, CJ, I love having you on theCUBE, you're a great guest, we could continue, but we got to leave it right there. Great to see you again-- >> Thank you, thank you so much, I really appreciate it. >> Alright, keep it right there, everybody, we'll be back with our next guest, this is theCUBE, we're live from Knowledge17, we'll be right back.