>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> If it weren't for Pat Gelsinger, Intel's future would be a disaster. Even with his clear vision, fantastic leadership, deep technical and business acumen, and amazing positivity, the company's future is in serious jeopardy. It's the same story we've been telling for years. Volume is king in the semiconductor industry, and Intel no longer is the volume leader. Despite Intel's efforts to change that dynamic With several recent moves, including making another go at its Foundry business, the company is years away from reversing its lagging position relative to today's leading foundries and design shops. Intel's best chance to survive as a leader in our view, will come from a combination of a massive market, continued supply constraints, government money, and luck, perhaps in the form of a deal with apple in the midterm. Hello, and welcome to this week's "Wikibon CUBE Insights, Powered by ETR." In this "Breaking Analysis," we'll update you on our latest assessment of Intel's competitive position and unpack nuggets from the company's February investor conference. Let's go back in history a bit and review what we said in the early 2010s. If you've followed this program, you know that our David Floyer sounded the alarm for Intel as far back as 2012, the year after PC volumes peaked. Yes, they've ticked up a bit in the past couple of years but they pale in comparison to the volumes that the ARM ecosystem is producing. The world has changed from people entering data into machines, and now it's machines that are driving all the data. Data volumes in Web 1.0 were largely driven by keystrokes and clicks. Web 3.0 is going to be driven by machines entering data into sensors, cameras. Other edge devices are going to drive enormous data volumes and processing power to boot. Every windmill, every factory device, every consumer device, every car, will require processing at the edge to run AI, facial recognition, inference, and data intensive workloads. And the volume of this space compared to PCs and even the iPhone itself is about to be dwarfed with an explosion of devices. Intel is not well positioned for this new world in our view. Intel has to catch up on the process, Intel has to catch up on architecture, Intel has to play catch up on security, Intel has to play catch up on volume. The ARM ecosystem has cumulatively shipped 200 billion chips to date, and is shipping 10x Intel's wafer volume. Intel has to have an architecture that accommodates much more diversity. And while it's working on that, it's years behind. All that said, Pat Gelsinger is doing everything he can and more to close the gap. Here's a partial list of the moves that Pat is making. A year ago, he announced IDM 2.0, a new integrated device manufacturing strategy that opened up its world to partners for manufacturing and other innovation. Intel has restructured, reorganized, and many executives have boomeranged back in, many previous Intel execs. They understand the business and have a deep passion to help the company regain its prominence. As part of the IDM 2.0 announcement, Intel created, recreated if you will, a Foundry division and recently acquired Tower Semiconductor an Israeli firm, that is going to help it in that mission. It's opening up partnerships with alternative processor manufacturers and designers. And the company has announced major investments in CAPEX to build out Foundry capacity. Intel is going to spin out Mobileye, a company it had acquired for 15 billion in 2017. Or does it try and get a $50 billion valuation? Mobileye is about $1.4 billion in revenue, and is likely going to be worth more around 25 to 30 billion, we'll see. But Intel is going to maybe get $10 billion in cash from that, that spin out that IPO and it can use that to fund more FABS and more equipment. Intel is leveraging its 19,000 software engineers to move up the stack and sell more subscriptions and high margin software. He got to sell what he got. And finally Pat is playing politics beautifully. Announcing for example, FAB investments in Ohio, which he dubbed Silicon Heartland. Brilliant! Again, there's no doubt that Pat is moving fast and doing the right things. Here's Pat at his investor event in a T-shirt that says, "torrid, bringing back the torrid pace and discipline that Intel is used to." And on the right is Pat at the State of the Union address, looking sharp in shirt and tie and suit. And he has said, "a bet on Intel is a hedge against geopolitical instability in the world." That's just so good. To that statement, he showed this chart at his investor meeting. Basically it shows that whereas semiconductor manufacturing capacity has gone from 80% of the world's volume to 20%, he wants to get it back to 50% by 2030, and reset supply chains in a market that has become important as oil. Again, just brilliant positioning and pushing all the right hot buttons. And here's a slide underscoring that commitment, showing manufacturing facilities around the world with new capacity coming online in the next few years in Ohio and the EU. Mentioning the CHIPS Act in his presentation in The US and Europe as part of a public private partnership, no doubt, he's going to need all the help he can get. Now, we couldn't resist the chart on the left here shows wafer starts and transistor capacity growth. For Intel, overtime speaks to its volume aspirations. But we couldn't help notice that the shape of the curve is somewhat misleading because it shows a two-year (mumbles) and then widens the aperture to three years to make the curve look steeper. Fun with numbers. Okay, maybe a little nitpick, but these are some of the telling nuggets we pulled from the investor day, and they're important. Another nitpick is in our view, wafers would be a better measure of volume than transistors. It's like a company saying we shipped 20% more exabytes or MIPS this year than last year. Of course you did, and your revenue shrank. Anyway, Pat went through a detailed analysis of the various Intel businesses and promised mid to high double digit growth by 2026, half of which will come from Intel's traditional PC they center in network edge businesses and the rest from advanced graphics HPC, Mobileye and Foundry. Okay, that sounds pretty good. But it has to be taken into context that the balance of the semiconductor industry, yeah, this would be a pretty competitive growth rate, in our view, especially for a 70 plus billion dollar company. So kudos to Pat for sticking his neck out on this one. But again, the promise is several years away, at least four years away. Now we want to focus on Foundry because that's the only way Intel is going to get back into the volume game and the volume necessary for the company to compete. Pat built this slide showing the baby blue for today's Foundry business just under a billion dollars and adding in another $1.5 billion for Tower Semiconductor, the Israeli firm that it just acquired. So a few billion dollars in the near term future for the Foundry business. And then by 2026, this really fuzzy blue bar. Now remember, TSM is the new volume leader, and is a $50 billion company growing. So there's definitely a market there that it can go after. And adding in ARM processors to the mix, and, you know, opening up and partnering with the ecosystems out there can only help volume if Intel can win that business, which you know, it should be able to, given the likelihood of long term supply constraints. But we remain skeptical. This is another chart Pat showed, which makes the case that Foundry and IDM 2.0 will allow expensive assets to have a longer useful life. Okay, that's cool. It will also solve the cumulative output problem highlighted in the bottom right. We've talked at length about Wright's Law. That is, for every cumulative doubling of units manufactured, cost will fall by a constant percentage. You know, let's say around 15% in semiconductor world, which is vitally important to accommodate next generation chips, which are always more expensive at the start of the cycle. So you need that 15% cost buffer to jump curves and make any money. So let's unpack this a bit. You know, does this chart at the bottom right address our Wright's Law concerns, i.e. that Intel can't take advantage of Wright's Law because it can't double cumulative output fast enough? Now note the decline in wafer starts and then the slight uptick, and then the flattening. It's hard to tell what years we're talking about here. Intel is not going to share the sausage making because it's probably not pretty, But you can see on the bottom left, the flattening of the cumulative output curve in IDM 1.0 otherwise known as the death spiral. Okay, back to the power of Wright's Law. Now, assume for a second that wafer density doesn't grow. It does, but just work with us for a second. Let's say you produce 50 million units per year, just making a number up. That gets you cumulative output to $100 million in, sorry, 100 million units in the second year to take you two years to get to that 100 million. So in other words, it takes two years to lower your manufacturing cost by, let's say, roughly 15%. Now, assuming you can get wafer volumes to be flat, which that chart showed, with good yields, you're at 150 now in year three, 200 in year four, 250 in year five, 300 in year six, now, that's four years before you can take advantage of Wright's Law. You keep going at that flat wafer start, and that simplifying assumption we made at the start and 50 million units a year, and well, you get to the point. You get the point, it's now eight years before you can get the Wright's Law to kick in, and you know, by then you're cooked. But now you can grow the density of transistors on a chip, right? Yes, of course. So let's come back to Moore's Law. The graphic on the left says that all the growth is in the new stuff. Totally agree with that. Huge term that Pat presented. Now he also said that until we exhaust the periodic table of elements, Moore's Law is alive and well, and Intel is the steward of Moore's Law. Okay, that's cool. The chart on the right shows Intel going from 100 billion transistors today to a trillion by 2030. Hold that thought. So Intel is assuming that we'll keep up with Moore's Law, meaning a doubling of transistors every let's say two years, and I believe it. So bring that back to Wright's Law, in the previous chart, it means with IDM 2.0, Intel can get back to enjoying the benefits of Wright's Law every two years, let's say, versus IDM 1.0 where they were failing to keep up. Okay, so Intel is saved, yeah? Well, let's bring into this discussion one of our favorite examples, Apple's M1 ARM-based chip. The M1 Ultra is a new architecture. And you can see the stats here, 114 billion transistors on a five nanometer process and all the other stats. The M1 Ultra has two chips. They're bonded together. And Apple put an interposer between the two chips. An interposer is a pathway that allows electrical signals to pass through it onto another chip. It's a super fast connection. You can see 2.5 terabytes per second. But the brilliance is the two chips act as a single chip. So you don't have to change the software at all. The way Intel's architecture works is it takes two different chips on a substrate, and then each has its own memory. The memory is not shared. Apple shares the memory for the CPU, the NPU, the GPU. All of it is shared, meaning it needs no change in software unlike Intel. Now Intel is working on a new architecture, but Apple and others are way ahead. Now let's make this really straightforward. The original Apple M1 had 16 billion transistors per chip. And you could see in that diagram, the recently launched M1 Ultra has $114 billion per chip. Now if you take into account the size of the chips, which are increasing, and the increase in the number of transistors per chip, that transistor density, that's a factor of around 6x growth in transistor density per chip in 18 months. Remember Intel, assuming the results in the two previous charts that we showed, assuming they were achievable, is running at 2x every two years, versus 6x for the competition. And AMD and Nvidia are close to that as well because they can take advantage of TSM's learning curve. So in the previous chart with Moore's Law, alive and well, Intel gets to a trillion transistors by 2030. The Apple ARM and Nvidia ecosystems will arrive at that point years ahead of Intel. That means lower costs and significantly better competitive advantage. Okay, so where does that leave Intel? The story is really not resonating with investors and hasn't for a while. On February 18th, the day after its investor meeting, the stock was off. It's rebound a little bit but investors are, you know, they're probably prudent to wait unless they have really a long term view. And you can see Intel's performance relative to some of the major competitors. You know, Pat talked about five nodes in for years. He made a big deal out of that, and he shared proof points with Alder Lake and Meteor Lake and other nodes, but Intel just delayed granite rapids last month that pushed it out from 2023 to 2024. And it told investors that we're going to have to boost spending to turn this ship around, which is absolutely the case. And that delay in chips I feel like the first disappointment won't be the last. But as we've said many times, it's very difficult, actually, it's impossible to quickly catch up in semiconductors, and Intel will never catch up without volume. So we'll leave you by iterating our scenario that could save Intel, and that's if its Foundry business can eventually win back Apple to supercharge its volume story. It's going to be tough to wrestle that business away from TSM especially as TSM is setting up shop in Arizona, with US manufacturing that's going to placate The US government. But look, maybe the government cuts a deal with Apple, says, hey, maybe we'll back off with the DOJ and FTC and as part of the CHIPS Act, you'll have to throw some business at Intel. Would that be enough when combined with other Foundry opportunities Intel could theoretically produce? Maybe. But from this vantage point, it's very unlikely Intel will gain back its true number one leadership position. If it were really paranoid back when David Floyer sounded the alarm 10 years ago, yeah, that might have made a pretty big difference. But honestly, the best we can hope for is Intel's strategy and execution allows it to get competitive volumes by the end of the decade, and this national treasure survives to fight for its leadership position in the 2030s. Because it would take a miracle for that to happen in the 2020s. Okay, that's it for today. Thanks to David Floyer for his contributions to this research. Always a pleasure working with David. Stephanie Chan helps me do much of the background research for "Breaking Analysis," and works with our CUBE editorial team. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight to get the word out. And thanks to SiliconANGLE's editor in chief Rob Hof, who comes up with a lot of the great titles that we have for "Breaking Analysis" and gets the word out to the SiliconANGLE audience. Thanks, guys. Great teamwork. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcast wherever you listen. Just search "Breaking Analysis Podcast." You'll want to check out ETR's website @etr.ai. We also publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You could always get in touch with me on email, david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @dvellante, and comment on my LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for "theCUBE Insights, Powered by ETR." Have a great week. Stay safe, be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Much of the discussion around Intel's current challenges, is focused on manufacturing issues and it's ongoing market share skirmish with AMD. Of course, that's very understandable. But the core issue Intel faces is that it has lost the volume game forever. And in Silicon volume is king. As such incoming CEO Pat Gelsinger faces some difficult decisions. I mean, on the one hand he could take some logical steps to shore up the company's execution, maybe outsource a portion of its manufacturing. Make some incremental changes that would unquestionably please Wall Street and probably drive shareholder value when combined with the usual stock buybacks and dividends. On the other hand, Gelsinger could make much more dramatic moves shedding it's vertically integrated heritage and transforming Intel into a leading designer of chips for the emerging multi-trillion dollar markets that are highly fragmented and generally referred to as the edge. We believe Intel has no choice. It must create a deep partnership in our view with a semiconductor manufacturer with aspirations to manufacture on US soil and focus Intel's resources on design. Hello, everyone. And welcome to this week's Wikibon's Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis will put forth our prognosis for what Intel's future looks like and lay out what we think the company needs to do not only to maintain its relevance but to regain the position it once held as perhaps the most revered company in tech. Let's start by looking at some of the fundamental factors that we've been tracking and that have shaped and are shaping Intel and our thinking around Intel today. First, it's really important to point out that new CEO Gelsinger is walking into a really difficult situation. Intel's ascendancy and its dominance it was created by PC volumes. And its development of an ecosystem that the company created around the x86 instruction set. In semiconductors volume is everything. The player with the highest volumes has the lowest manufacturing costs. And the math around learning curves is very clear and it's compelling. It's based on Wright's law named after Theodore Wright T.P Wright. He was an aeronautical engineer and he discovered that for every cumulative doubling of units manufactured, costs are going to fall by a constant percentage. Now in semiconductor way for manufacturing that cost is roughly around 22% declines. And when you consider the economics of manufacturing a next generation technology, for example going from ten nanometers to seven nanometers this becomes huge. Because the cost of making seven nanometer tech for example is much higher relative to 10 nanometers. But if you can fit more circuits on a chip your wafer costs can drop by 30% or even more. Now this learning curve benefit is why volume is so important. If the time it takes to double volume is elongated then the learning curve benefit they get elongated as well and it become less competitive from a cost standpoint. And that's exactly what is happening to Intel. You see x86 PC volumes, they peaked in 2011 and that marked the beginning of the end of Intel's dominance from manufacturing and cost standpoint. You know, ironically HDD hard disk drive volumes peaked around the same time and you're seeing a similar fundamental shift in that market relative to flash. Now because Intel has a vertically integrated model it's designers are limited by the constraints in the manufacturing process. What used to be Intel's ace in the hole its process manufacturing has become a hindrance, frustrating Intel's chip designers and really seeding advantage to a number of competitors including AMD, ARM and Nvidia. Now, during this time we've seen high profile innovators adapting alternative processors companies like Apple which chose its own design based on ARM for the M1. Tesla is a fascinating case study where Intel was really not in the running. AWS probably Intel's largest customer is developing its own chips. You know through Intel, a little bone at the recent reinvent it announced its use of Intel's Habana chips in a practically the same sentence that talked about how it was developing a similar chip that would provide even better price performance. And just last month it was reported that Microsoft Intel's monopoly partner in the PC era was developing its own ARM-based chips for the surface PCs and for its servers. Intel's Zenith was marked by those peak PC volumes that we talked about. Now to stress this point this chart shows x86 PC volumes over time. That red highlighted area shows the peak years. Now, volumes actually grew in 2020 in part due to COVID which is not really reflected in this chart but the volume game was lost for Intel. When it has been widely reported that in 2005 Steve Jobs approached Intel as it was replacing IBM microprocessors with with Intel processors for the Mac and asked Intel to develop the chip for the iPhone Intel passed and the die was cast. Now to the earlier point, PC markets are actually quite good if you're Dell. Here's some ETR data that shows Dell's laptop net score. Net score is a measure of spending momentum for 2020 and into 2021. Dell's client business has been very good and profitable and frankly, it's been a pleasant surprise. You know, PCs they're doing well. And as you can see in this chart, Dell has momentum. There's approximately 275 million maybe as high as 300 million PC units shipped worldwide in 2020, you know up double digits by some estimates. However, ARM chip units shipped exceeded 20 billion units last year worldwide. And it's not apples to apples. You know, we're comparing x86 based PCs to ARM chips. So this excludes x86 servers, but the way for volume for ARM dwarfs that of x86 probably by a factor of 10 times. Back to Wright's law, how long is it going to take Intel to double wafer volumes? It's not going to happen. And trust me, Pat Gelsinger understands this dynamic probably better than anyone in the world and certainly better than I do. And as you look out to the future, the story for Intel and it's vertically integrated approach it's even tougher. This chart shows Wikibon's 2020 forecast for ARM based compared to x86 based PCs. It also includes some other devices but as you can see what happens by the end of the decade is ARM really starts to eat in to x86. As we've seen with the M1 at Apple, ARM is competing in PCs in much better position for these emerging devices that support things like video and virtual reality systems. And we think even will start to eat into the enterprise. So again, the volume game is over for Intel, period. They're never going to win it back. Well, you might ask what about revenue? Intel still dominates in the data center right? Well, yes. And that is much higher revenue per unit but we still believe that revenue from ARM-based systems are going to surpass that of x86 by the end of the decade. Arm compute revenue is shown in the orange area in this chart with x86 in the blue. This means to us that Intel's last mot is going to be its position in the data center. It has to protect that at all costs. Now the market knows this. It knows something's wrong with Intel. And you can see that is reflected in the valuations of semiconductor companies. This chart compares the trailing 12 month revenue in the market valuations for Intel, Nvidia, AMD and Qualcomm. And you can see at a trailing 12 month multiple revenue with 3 X compared to about 22 X for Nvidia about 10 X for AMT and Qualcomm, Intel is lagging behind in the street's view. And Intel, as you can see here, it's now considered a cheap stock by many, you know. Here's a graph that shows the performance over the past 12 months compared to the NASDAQ which you can see that major divergence. NASDAQ has been powered part by COVID and all the new tech and the work from home. The stock reacted very well to the appointment of Gelsinger. That's no surprise. The question people are asking is what's next for Intel? How will Pat turn the company's fortunes around? How long is it going to take? What moves can he and should he make? How will they be received by the market? And internally, very importantly, within Intel's culture. These are big chewy questions and people are split on what should be done. I've heard everything from Pat should just clean up the execution issues. It's no.. This is, you know, very workable and not make any major strategic moves all the way to Intel should do a hybrid outsourced model to Intel should aggressively move out of manufacturing. Let me read some things from Barron's and some other media. Intel has fallen behind rivals and the rest of tech Intel is replacing Bob Swan. Investors are cheering the move. Intel would likely turn to Taiwan semiconductor for chips. Here's who benefits most. So let's take a look at some of the opinions that are inside these articles. So, first one I'm going to pull out Intel has indicated a willingness to try new things and investors expect the company to announce a hybrid manufacturing approach in January. Now, if you take a look at that and you quote a CEO Swan, he says, what has changed is that we have much more flexibility in our designs. And with that type of design we have the ability to move things in and move things out. And that gives us a little more flexibility about what we will make and what we might take from the outside. So let's unpack that a little bit. The new Intel, we know is a highly vertically integrated workflow from design to manufacturing production. But to me, the designers are the artists and the flexibility you would think would come from outsourcing manufacturer to give designers more flexibility to take advantage of say seven nanometer or five nanometer process technologies versus having to wait for Intel to catch up. It used to be that Intel's process was the industry's best and it could supercharge a design or even mask certain design challenges so that Intel could maintain its edge but that's no longer the case. Here's a sentiment from an analyst, Daniel Donnelly. Donnelly is at Citi. It says he's confident. Donnelly is confident that Intel's decision to outsource more of its production won't result in the company divesting its entire manufacturing segment. And he cited three reasons. One, it would take roughly three years to bring a chip to market. And two, Intel would have to share IP. And three, it would hurt Intel's profit margins. He said it would negatively impact gross margins by 10 points and would cause a 25% decline in EPS. Now I don't know about this. I would... To that I would say one, Intel needs to reduce its current cycle time, to go from design to production from let's say three to four years where it is today. It's got to get it under you know, at least at two years maybe even less. Second, I would say is what good is intellectual property if it's not helping you win in the market? And three, I think profitability is nuance. So here's another take from a UBS analyst. His name is Timothy Arcuri. And he says, quote, We see but no option but for Intel to aggressively pursue an outsourcing strategy. He wrote that Intel could be 80% outsourced by 2026. And just by going to 50% outsourcing, he said would save the company $4 billion annually in CapEx and 25% would drop to free cashflow. So look, maybe Gelsinger has to sacrifice some gross margin in EPS for the time being. Reduce the cost of goods sold by outsourcing manufacturing lower its CapEx and fund innovation in design with free cash flow. Here's our take, Pat Gelsinger needs to look in the mirror and ask what would Andy Grove do? You know, Grove's quote that only the paranoid survive its famous less well-known are the words that proceeded that quote. Success breeds complacency and complacency breeds failure. Intel in our view is headed on a path to a long drawn out failure if it doesn't act aggressively. It simply can't compete on cost as an integrated manufacturer because it doesn't have the volume. So what will Pat Gelsinger do? You know, we've probably done 30 Cube interviews with Pat and I just don't think he's taking the job to make some incremental changes to Intel to get the stock price back up. Why would that excite Pat Gelsinger? Trends, markets, people, society, he's a dot connector and he loves Intel deeply. And he's a legend at the company. Here's what we strongly believe. We think Intel has to do a deal with TSM or maybe Samsung perhaps some kind of joint venture or other innovative structure that both protects its IP and secures its future. You know, both of these manufacturers would love to have a stronger US presence. In markets where Intel has many manufacturing facilities they may even be willing to take a loss to get this started and deeply partner with Intel for some period of time This would allow Intel to better compete on a cost basis with AMD. It would protect its core data center revenue and allow it to fight the fight in PCs with better cost structures. Maybe even gain some share that could count for, you know another $10 billion to the top line. Intel should focus on reducing its cycle times and unleashing its designers to create new solutions. Let a manufacturing partner who has the learning curve advantages enable Intel designers to innovate and extend ecosystems into new markets. Autonomous vehicles, factory floor use cases, military security, distributed cloud the coming telco explosion with 5G, AI inferencing at the edge. Bite the bullet, give up on yesterday's playbook and reinvent Intel for the next 50 years. That's what we'd like to see. And that's what we think Gelsinger will conclude when he channels his mentor. What do you think? Please comment on my LinkedIn posts. You can DM me at dvellante or email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. I publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. These episodes remember are also available as podcasts for your listening pleasure. Just search Breaking Analysis podcast. Many thanks to my friend and colleague David Floyer who contributed to this episode and that has done great work in the last better part of the last decade and has really thought through some of the cost factors that we talked about today. Also don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey action. Thanks for watching this episode of the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Be well. And we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of VMworld 2020 brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2020. This is theCUBE virtual with VMworld 2020 virtual. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE with Dave Vellante. It's our 11th year covering VMware. We're not in-person, we're virtual but all the content is flowing. Of course, we're here with Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of VMware who's been on theCUBE, all 11 years. This year virtual of theCUBE as we've been covering VMware from his early days in 2010 when theCUBE started, 11 years later, Pat, it's still changing and still exciting. Great to see you, thanks for taking the time. >> Hey, you guys are great. I love the interactions that we have, the energy, the fun, the intellectual sparring and of course the audiences have loved it now for 11 years, and I look forward to the next 11 that we'll be doing together. >> It's always exciting 'cause we have great conversations, Dave, and I like to drill in and really kind of probe and unpack the content that you're delivering at the keynotes, but also throughout the entire program. It is virtual this year which highlights a lot of the cloud native changes. Just want to get your thoughts on the virtual aspect, VMworld's not in-person, which is one of the best events of the year, everyone loves it, the great community. It's virtual this year but there's a slew of content, what should people take away from this virtual VMworld? >> Well, one aspect of it is that I'm actually excited about is that we're going to be well over 100,000 people which allows us to be bigger, right? You don't have the physical constraints, you also are able to reach places like I've gone to customers and maybe they had 20 people attend in prior years. This year they're having 100. They're able to have much larger teams also like some of the more regulated industries where they can't necessarily send people to events like this, The International Audience. So just being able to spread the audience much more. A digital foundation for an unpredictable world, and man, what an unpredictable world it has been this past year. And then key messages, lots of key products announcements, technology announcements, partnership announcements, and of course in all of the VMworld is that hands-on labs, the interactions that will be delivering a virtual. You come to VMware because the content is so robust and it's being delivered by the world's smartest people. >> Yeah, we've had great conversations over the years and we've talked about hybrid cloud, I think, 2012. A lot of the stuff I look back at a lot of the videos was early on we're picking out all these waves, but there was that moment four years ago or so, maybe even four three, I can't even remember it seems like yesterday. You gave the seminal keynote and you said, this is the way the world's going to happen. And since that keynote, I'll never forget, was in Moscone and since then, you guys have been performing extremely well both on the business front as well as making technology bets and it's paying off. So what's next, you got the cloud, cloud scale, is it Space, is it Cyber? All these things are going on what is next wave that you're watching and what's coming out and what can people extract out of VMworld this year about this next wave? >> Yeah, one of the things I really am excited about and I went to my buddy Jensen, I said, boy, we're doing this work in smart mix we really like to work with you and maybe some things to better generalize the GPU. And Jensen challenged me. Now usually, I'm the one challenging other people with bigger visions. This time Jensen said, "hey Pat, I think you're thinking too small. Let's do the entire AI landscape together, and let's make AI a enterprise class works load from the data center to the cloud and to the Edge. And so I'm going to bring all of my AI resources and make VMware and Tanzu the preferred infrastructure to deliver AI at scale. I need you guys to make the GPUs work like first-class citizens in the vSphere environment because I need them to be truly democratized for the enterprise, so that it's not some specialized AI Development Team, it's everybody being able to do that. And then we're going to connect the whole network together in a new and profound way with our Monterey program as well being able to use the Smart NIC, the DPU, as Jensen likes to call it. So now with CPU, GPU and DPU, all being managed through a distributed architecture of VMware. This is exciting, so this is one in particular that I think we are now re-architecting the data center, the cloud and the Edge. And this partnership is really a central point of that. >> Yeah, the NVIDIA thing's huge and I know Dave probably has some questions on that but I asked you a question because a lot of people ask me, is that just a hardware deal? Talking about SmartNICs, you talk about data processing units. It sounds like a motherboard in the cloud, if you will, but it's not just hardware. Can you talk about the aspect of the software piece? Because again, NVIDIA is known for GPUs, we all know that but we're talking about AI here so it's not just hardware. Can you just expand and share what the software aspect of all this is? >> Yeah well, NVIDIA has been investing in their AI stack and it's one of those where I say, this is Edison at work, right? The harder I work, the luckier I get. And NVIDIA was lucky that their architecture worked much better for the AI workload. But it was built on two decades of hard work in building a parallel data center architecture. And they have built a complete software stack for all the major AI workloads running on their platform. All of that is now coming to vSphere and Tanzu, that is a rich software layer across many vertical industries. And we'll talk about a variety of use cases, one of those that we highlight at VMworld is the University, California, San Francisco partnership, UCSF, one of the world's leading research hospitals. Some of the current vaccine use cases as well, the financial use cases for threat detection and trading benefits. It really is about how we bring that rich software stack. This is a decade and a half of work to the VMware platform, so that now every developer and every enterprise can take advantage of this at scale. That's a lot of software. So in many respects, yeah, there's a piece of hardware in here but the software stack is even more important. >> It's so well we're on the sort of NVIDIA, the arm piece. There's really interesting these alternative processing models, and I wonder if you could comment on the implications for AI inferencing at the Edge. It's not just as well processor implications, it's storage, it's networking, it's really a whole new fundamental paradigm, but how are you thinking about that, Pat? >> Yeah, and we've thought about there's three aspects, what we said, three problems that we're solving. One is the developer problem where we said now you develop once, right? And the developer can now say, "hey I want to have this new AI-centric app and I can develop and it can run in the data center on the cloud or at the Edge." Secondly, my Operations Team can be able to operate this just like I do all of my infrastructure, and now it's VMs containers and AI applications. And third, and this is where your question really comes to bear most significantly, is data gravity. Right, these data sets are big. Some of them need to be very low latency as well, they also have regulatory issues. And if I have to move these large regulated data sets to the cloud, boy, maybe I can't do that generally for my Apps or if I have low latency heavy apps at the Edge, huh, I can't pull it back to the cloud or to my data center. And that's where the uniform architecture and aspects of the Monterey Program where I'm able to take advantage of the network and the SmartNICs that are being built, but also being able to fully represent the data gravity issues of AI applications at scale. 'Cause in many cases, I'll need to do the processing, both the learning and the inference at the Edge as well. So that's a key part of our strategy here with NVIDIA and I do think is going to unlock a new class of apps because when you think about AI and containers, what am I using it for? Well, it's the next generation of applications. A lot of those are going to be Edge, 5G-based, so very critical. >> We've got to talk about security now too. I'm going to pivot a little bit here, John, if it's okay. Years ago, you said security is a do-over, you said that on theCUBE, it stuck with us. But there's been a lot of complacency. It's kind of if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but but COVID kind of broke it. And so you see three mega trends, you've got cloud security, you'll see in Z-scaler rocket, you've got Identity Access Management and Octo which I hope there's I think a customer of yours and then you got Endpoint, you're seeing Crowdstrike explode you guys paid 2.7 billion, I think, for Carbon Black, yet Crowdstrike has this huge valuation. That's a mega opportunity for you guys. What are you seeing there? How are you bringing that all together? You've got NSX components, EUC components, you've got sort of security throughout your entire stack. How should we be thinking about that? >> Well, one of the announcements that I am most excited about at VMworld is the release of Carbon Black workload. 'Cause we said we're going to take those carbon black assets and we're going to combine it with workspace one, we're going to build it in NSX, we're going to make it part of Tanzu, and we're going to make it part of vSphere. And Carbon Black workload is literally the vSphere embodiment of Carbon Black in an agent-less way. So now you don't need to insert new agents or anything, it becomes part of the hypervisor itself. Meaning that there's no attack surface available for the bad guys to pursue. But not only is this an exciting new product capability, but we're going to make it free, right? And what I'm announcing at VMworld and everybody who uses vSphere gets Carbon Black workload for free for an unlimited number of VMs for the next six months. And as I said in the keynote, today is a bad day for cyber criminals. This is what intrinsic security is about, making it part of the platform. Don't add anything on, just click the button and start using what's built into vSphere. And we're doing that same thing with what we're doing at the networking layer, this is the last line acquisition. We're going to bring that same workload kind of characteristic into the container, that's why we did the Octarine acquisition, and we're releasing the integration of workspace one with Carbon Black client and that's going to be the differentiator, and by the way, Crowdstrike is doing well, but guess what? So are we, and right both of us are eliminating the rotting dead carcasses of the traditional AV approach. So there's a huge market for both of us to go pursue here. So a lot of great things in security, and as you said, we're just starting to see that shift of the industry occur that I promised last year in theCUBE. >> So it'd be safe to say that you're a cloud native and a security company these days? >> Yeah well, absolutely. And the bigger picture of us is that we're this critical infrastructure layer for the Edge, for the cloud, for the Telco environment and for the data center from every endpoint, every application, every cloud. >> So, Pat, I want to ask you a virtual question we got from the community. I'm going to throw it out to you because a lot of people look at Amazon and the cloud and they say, okay we didn't see it coming, we saw it coming, we saw it scale all the benefits that are coming out of cloud well documented. The question for you is, what's next after cloud? As people start to rethink especially with COVID highlighting and all the scabs out there as people look at their exposed infrastructure and their software, they want to be modern, they want the modern apps. What's next after cloud, what's your vision? >> Well, with respect to cloud, we are taking customers on the multicloud vision, right, where you truly get to say, oh, this workload I want to be able to run it with Azure, with amazon, I need to bring this one on-premise, I want to run that one hosted. I'm not sure where I'm going to run that application, so develop it and then run it at the best place. And that's what we mean by our hybrid multicloud strategy, is being able for customers to really have cloud flexibility and choice. And even as our preferred relationship with Amazon is going super well, we're seeing a real uptick, we're also happy that the Microsoft Azure VMware service is now GA. So there in Marketplace, are Google, Oracle, IBM and Alibaba partnerships, and the much broader set of VMware Cloud partner programs. So the future is multicloud. Furthermore, it's then how do we do that in the Telco network for the 5G build out? The Telco cloud, and how do we do that for the Edge? And I think that might be sort of the granddaddy of all of these because increasingly in a 5G world, we'll be enabling Edge use cases, we'll be pushing AI to the Edge like we talked about earlier in this conversation, we'll be enabling these high bandwidth low latency use cases at the Edge, and we'll see more and more of the smart embodiment smart city, smart street, smart factory, the autonomous driving, all of those need these type of capabilities. >> Okay. >> So there's hybrid and there's multi, you just talked about multi. So hybrid are data, are data partner ETR they do quarterly surveys. We're seeing big uptick in VMware Cloud on AWS, you guys mentioned that in your call. We're also seeing the VMware Cloud, VMware Cloud Foundation and the other elements, clearly a big uptick. So how should we think about hybrid? It looks like that's an extension of on-prem maybe not incremental, maybe a share shift, whereas multi looks like it's incremental but today multi is really running on multiple clouds, but a vision toward incremental value. How are you thinking about that? >> Yeah, so clearly, the idea of multi is truly multiple clouds. Am I taking advantage of multiple clouds being my private clouds, my hosted clouds and of course my public cloud partners? We believe everybody will be running a great private cloud, picking a primary public cloud and then a secondary public cloud. Hybrid then is saying, which of those infrastructures are identical, so that I can run them without modifying any aspect of my infrastructure operations or applications? And in today's world where people are wanting to accelerate their move to the cloud, a hybrid cloud is spot-on with their needs. Because if I have to refactor my applications, it's a couple million dollars per app and I'll see you in a couple of years. If I can simply migrate my existing application to the hybrid cloud, what we're consistently seeing is the time is 1/4 and the cost is 1/8 or less. Those are powerful numbers. And if I need to exit a data center, I want to be able to move to a cloud environment to be able to access more of those native cloud services, wow, that's powerful. And that's why for seven years now, we've been preaching that hybrid is the future, it is not a way station to the future. And I believe that more fervently today than when I declared it seven years ago. So we are firmly on that path that we're enabling a multi and hybrid cloud future for all of our customers. >> Yeah, you addressed that like Cube 2013, I remember that interview vividly was not a weigh station I got hammered answered. Thank you, Pat, for clarifying that going back seven years. I love the vision, you always got the right wave, it's always great to talk to you but I got to ask you about these initiatives that you're seeing clearly. Last year, a year and a half ago, Project Pacific came out, almost like a guiding directional vision. It then put some meat on the bone Tanzu and now you guys have that whole cloud native initiative, it's starting to flower up, thousands of flowers are blooming. This year, Project Monterey has announced. Same kind of situation, you're showing out the vision. What are the plans to take that to the next level? And take a minute to explain how Project Monterey, what it means and how you see that filling out. I'm assuming it's going to take the same trajectory as Pacific. >> Yeah, Monterey is a big deal. This is re-architecting the core of vSphere and it really is ripping apart the IO stack from the intrinsic operation of vSphere and the SX itself because in many ways, the IO, we've been always leveraging the NIC and essentially virtual NICs, but we never leverage the resources of the network adapters themselves in any fundamental way. And as you think about SmartNICs, these are powerful resources now where they may have four, eight, 16 even 32 cores running in the SmartNIC itself. So how do I utilize that resource, but it also sits in the right place? In the sense that it is the network traffic cop, it is the place to do security acceleration, it is the place that enables IO bandwidth optimization across increasingly rich applications where the workloads, the data, the latency get more important both in the data center and across data centers, to the cloud and to the Edge. So this re-architecting is a big deal, we announced the three partners, Intel, NVIDIA Mellanox and Pensando that we're working with, and we'll begin the deliveries of this as part of the core vSphere offerings beginning next year. So it's a big re-architecting, these are our key partners, we're excited about the work that we're doing with them and then of course our system partners like Dell and Lenovo who've already come forward and says, "Yeah we're going to to be bringing these to market together with VMware." >> Pat, personal question for you. I want to get your personal take, your career going back to Intel, you've seen it all but the shift is consumer to enterprise and you look at just recently Snowflake IPO, the biggest ever in the history of Wall Street. It's an enterprise data company, and the enterprise is now relevant. The consumer enterprise feels consumery, we talked about consumerization of IT years and years ago. But now more than ever the hottest financial IPO enterprise, you guys are enterprise. You did enterprise at Intel (laughing), you know the enterprise, you're doing it here at VMware. The enterprise is the consumer now with cloud and all this new landscape. What is your view on this because you've seen the waves, have you seen the historical perspective? It was consumer, was the big thing now it's enterprise, what's your take on all this? How do you make sense of it because it's now mainstream, what's your view on this? >> Well, first I do want to say congratulations to my friend, Frank and the extraordinary Snowflake IPO. And by the way they use VMware, so I not only do I feel a sense of ownership 'cause Frank used to work for me for a period of time, but they're also a customer of ours so go Frank, go Snowflake. We're excited about that. But there is this episodic to the industry where for a period of time, it is consumer-driven and CES used to be the hottest ticket in the industry for technology trends. But as you say, it has now shifted to be more business-centric, and I've said this very firmly, for instance, in the case of 5G where I do not see consumer. A faster video or a better Facebook isn't going to be why I buy 5G. It's going to be driven by more business use cases where the latency, the security and the bandwidth will have radically differentiated views of the new applications that will be the case. So we do think that we're in a period of time and I expect that it's probably at least the next five years where business will be the technology drivers in the industry. And then probably, hey there'll be a wave of consumer innovation, and I'll have to get my black turtlenecks out again and start trying to be cool but I've always been more of an enterprise guy so I like the next five to 10 years better. I'm not cool enough to be a consumer guy and maybe my age is now starting to conspire against me as well. >> Hey, Pat I know you got to go but a quick question. So you guys, you gave guidance, pretty good guidance actually. I wonder, have you and Zane come up with a new algorithm to deal with all this uncertainty or is it kind of back to old school gut feel? >> (laughing) Well, I think as we thought about the year, as we came into the year, and obviously, COVID smacked everybody, we laid out a model, we looked at various industry analysts, what we call the Swoosh Model, right? Q2, Q3 and Q4 recovery, Q1 more so, Q2 more so. And basically, we built our own theories behind that, we tested against many analyst perspectives and we had Vs and we had Ws and we had Ls and so on. We picked what we thought was really sort of grounded in the best data that we could, put our own analysis which we have substantial data of our own customers' usage, et cetera and picked the model. And like any model, you put a touch of conservatism against it, and we've been pretty accurate. And I think there's a lot of things we've been able to sort of with good data, good thoughtfulness, take a view and then just consistently manage against it and everything that we said when we did that back in March has sort of proven out incrementally to be more accurate. And some are saying, "Hey things are coming back more quickly" and then, "Oh, we're starting to see the fall numbers climb up a little bit." Hey, we don't think this goes away quickly, there's still a lot of secondary things to get flushed through, the various economies as stimulus starts tailoring off, small businesses are more impacted, and we still don't have a widely deployed vaccine and I don't expect we will have one until second half of next year. Now there's the silver lining to that, as we said, which means that these changes, these faster to the future shifts in how we learn, how we work, how we educate, how we care for, how we worship, how we live, they will get more and more sedimented into the new normal, relying more and more on the digital foundation. And we think ultimately, that has extremely good upsides for us long-term, even as it's very difficult to navigate in the near term. And that's why we are just raving optimists for the long-term benefits of a more and more digital foundation for the future of every industry, every human, every workforce, every hospital, every educator, they are going to become more digital and that's why I think, going back to the last question this is a business-driven cycle, we're well positioned and we're thrilled for all of those who are participating with Vmworld 2020. This is a seminal moment for us and our industry. >> Pat, thank you so much for taking the time. It's an enabling model, it's what platforms are all about, you get that. My final parting question for you is whether you're a VC investing in startups or a large enterprise who's trying to get through COVID with a growth plan for that future. What does a modern app look like, and what does a modern company look like in your view? >> Well, a modern company would be that instead of having a lot of people looking down at infrastructure, the bulk of my IT resources are looking up at building apps, those apps are using modern CICD data pipeline approaches built for a multicloud embodiment, right, and of course VMware is the best partner that you possibly could have. So if you want to be modern cool on the front end, come and talk to us. >> All right, Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of VMware here on theCUBE for VMworld 2020 virtual, here with theCUBE virtual great to see you virtually, Pat, thanks for coming on, thanks for your time. >> Hey, thank you so much, love to see you in person soon enough but this is pretty good. >> Yeah. >> Thank you Dave. Thank you so much. >> Okay, you're watching theCUBE virtual here for VMworld 2020, I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante with Pat Gelsinger, thanks for watching. (gentle music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe. It's theCUBE with digital coverage of VMworld 2020, brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2020. This is theCUBE virtual with VMworld 2020 virtual. I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE with Dave Vellante. It's our 11th year covering VMware. We're not in person, we're virtual, but all the content is flowing. Of course, we're here with Pat Galsinger, the CEO of VMware. Who's been on theCUBE all 11 years. This year virtual of theCUBE as we've been covering VMware from his early days in 2010, when theCUBE started 11 years later, Pat is still changing and still exciting. Great to see you. Thanks for taking the time. >> Hey, you guys are great. I love the interactions that we have, the energy, the fun, the intellectual sparring. And of course that audiences have loved it now for 11 years. And I look forward to the next 11 that we'll be doing together. >> It's always exciting cause we'd love great conversations. Dave and I like to drill in and really kind of probe and unpack the content that you're delivering at the keynotes, but also throughout the entire program. It is virtual this year, which highlights a lot of the cloud native changes. Just want to get your thoughts on the virtual aspect of VMworld, not in person, which is one of the best events of the year. Everyone loves it. The great community. It's virtual this year, but there's a slew of content. What should people take away from this virtual VMworld? >> Well, one aspect of it is that I'm actually excited about is that we're going to be well over a hundred thousand people, which allows us to be bigger, right? You don't have the physical constraints. You also are able to reach places like I've gone to customers and maybe they had 20 people attend in prior years. This year they're having a hundred, they're able to have much larger teams. Also like some of the more regulated industries where they can't necessarily send people to events like this, the international audience. So just being able to spread the audience much more broadly well, also our key messages a digital foundation for unpredictable world. And man, what an unpredictable world it has been this past year? And then key messages, lots of key products announcements technology, announcements partnership, announcements and of course in all of the VMworld, is that hands on (murmurs) interactions that we'll be delivering our virtual, you come to the VMware because the content is so robust and it's being delivered by the world's smartest people. >> Yeah. We've had great conversations over the years. And we've talked about hybrid clothing 2012, a lot of this stuff I looked back in lot of the videos was early on, we're picking out all these waves, but it was that moment four years ago or so, maybe even four, three, I can't even remember, seems like yesterday. You gave the Seminole keynote and you said, "This is the way the world's going to happen." And since that keynote I'll never forget was in Moscone. And since then you guys have been performing extremely well both on the business as well as making technology bets and is paying off. So what's next? I mean, you've got the cloud scale. Is it space? Is it cyber? I mean, all these things are going on. What is next wave that you're watching and what's coming out and what can people extract out of VMworld this year about this next wave? >> Yeah, one of the things I really am excited about I went to my buddy Jensen. I said, "Boy, we're doing this work and smart. Next We really liked to work with you and maybe some things to better generalize the GPU." And Jensen challenged me. Now, usually, I'm the one challenging other people with bigger visions, this time Jensen said, "Hey Pat, I think you're thinking too small. Let's do the entire AI landscape together. And let's make AI a enterprise classwork stowed from the data center to the cloud and to the Edge. And so I'm going to bring all of my AI resources and make VMware, And Tansu the preferred infrastructure to deliver AI at scale. I need you guys to make the GPS work like first class citizens in the vSphere environment, because I need them to be truly democratized for the enterprise. so that it's not some specialized AI development team, it's everybody being able to do that. And then we're going to connect the whole network together in a new and profound way with our Monterey Program as well being able to use the SmartNIC, the DPU as Jensen likes to call it. So now it's CPU, GPU and DPU, all being managed through a distributed architecture of VMware." This is exciting. So this is one in particular that I think we are now rearchitecting the data center, the cloud in the Edge. And this partnership is really a central point of that. >> Yeah, the Nvid thing's huge. And I know Dave, Perharbs has some questions on that. But I ask you a question because a lot of people ask me, is it just a hardware deal? I mean, talking about SmartNIC, you talking about data processing units. It sounds like a motherboard in the cloud, if you will, but it's not just hardware. Can you talk about the aspect of the software piece? Because again, Nvidia is known for GP use, we all know that, but we're talking about AI here. So it's not just hardware. Can you just expand and share what the software aspect of all this is? >> Yeah. Well, Nvidia has been investing in their AI stack and it's one of those where I say, this is Edison at work, right? The harder I work, the luckier I get. And Nvidia was lucky that their architecture worked much better for the AI workload, but it was built on two decades of hard work in building a parallel data center architecture. And they have built a complete software stack for all of the major AI workloads running on their platform. All of that is now coming to vSphere and Tansu, that is a rich software layer across many vertical industries. And we'll talk about a variety of use cases. One of those that we highlight at Vmworld is the university of California, San Francisco partnership UCSF one of the world's leading research hospitals, some of the current vaccine use cases as well, the financial use cases for threat detection and trading benefits. It really is about how we bring that rich software stack. this is a decade and a half of work to the VMware platform so that now every developer and every enterprise could take advantage of this at scale, that's a lot of software. So in many respects, yeah, there's a piece of hardware in here, but the software stack is even more important. >> So well on the sort of Nvidia the arm piece, there's really interesting, these alternative processing models. And I wonder if you could comment on the implications for AI inferencing at the Edge. It's not just as well processor implications, it's storage, it's networking. It's really a whole new fundamental paradigm. How are you thinking about that Pat? >> Yeah, we've thought about, there's three aspects, but what we said three problems that we're solving. One is the developer problem, what we said, now you develop once, right? And the developer can now say, "Hey, I want to have this new AI centric app and I can develop, and it can run in the data center on the cloud or at the Edge." You'll secondly, my operations team can be able to operate this just like I do all my infrastructure. And now it's VMs containers and AI applications and third, and this is where your question really comes to bear. Most significantly is data gravity, right? These data sets are big. Some of them need to be very low latency as well. They also have regulatory issues. And if I have to move these large regulated data sets to the cloud, boy, maybe I can't do that generally for my apps or if I have low latency heavy apps at the Edge, ah, I can't pull it back to the cloud or to my data center. And that's where the uniform architecture and aspects of the Monterey program, where I'm able to take advantage of the network and the SmartNIC that are being built, but also being able to fully represent the data gravity issues of AI applications at scale 'cause in many cases I'll need to do the processing, both the learning and the inference at the Edge as well. So that's a key part of our strategy here with Nvidia. And I do think is going to be a lock, a new class of apps because when you think about AI and containers, what am I using it for? Well, it's the next generation of applications. A lot of those are going to be Edge 5G based. So very critical. >> We got to talk about security now, too. I mean, I'm going to pivot a little bit here John if it's okay. Years ago you said security is a do over. You said that on theCUBE, It stuck with us. There's there's been a lot of complacency it's kind of, if it didn't broke, don't fix it, but COVID kind of broke it. That's why you see three mega trends. You've got cloud security, you see in Z scaler rocket, you got identity access management and I'll check, I think a customer of yours. And then you've got endpoint you're seeing CrowdStrike explode. You guys pay 2.7 billion I think for carbon black yet CrowdStrike has this huge valuation. That's a mega opportunity for you guys. What are you seeing there? How are you bringing that all together? You've got NSX components, EUC components. You've got sort of security throughout your entire stack. How should we be thinking about that? >> Well, one of the announcements that I am most excited about at Vmworld is the release of carbon black workload, this research we're going to take those carbon black assets and we're going to combine it with workspace one. We're going to build it in NSX. We're going to make it part of Tansu and we're going to make it part of vSphere. And carbon black workload is literally the vSphere embodiment of carbon black in an agentless way. Ans so now you don't need to insert new agents or anything. It becomes part of the hypervisor itself, meaning that there's no attack surface available for the bad guys to pursue, but not only is this an exciting new product capability, but we're going to make it free, right? And what I'm announcing at VMworld and everybody who uses vSphere gets carbon black workload for free for an unlimited number of VMs for the next six months. And as I said in the keynote today is a bad day for cybercriminals. This is what intrinsic security is about, making it part of the platform. Don't add anything on, just click the button and start using what's built into vSphere. And we're doing that same thing with what we're doing at the networking layer. This is the act, the last line acquisition. We're going to bring that same workload kind of characteristic into the container. That's why we did the Octarine acquisition. And we're releasing the integration of workspace one with a carbon black client, and that's going to be the differentiator. And by the way, CrowdStrike is doing well, but guess what? So are we, and like both of us are eliminating the rotting dead carcasses of the traditional AV approach. So there is a huge market for both of us to go pursue here. So a lot of great things in security. And as you said, we're just starting to see that shift of the industry occur that I promised last year in theCUBE. >> So it'd be safe to say that you're a cloud native in a security company these days? >> You all, absolutely. And the bigger picture of us, is that we're critical infrastructure layer for the Edge for the cloud, for the telco environment and for the data center from every end point, every application, every cloud. >> So Padagonia asked you a virtual question, we got from the community, I'm going to throw it out to you because a lot of people look at Amazon, The cloud and they say, "Okay, we didn't see it coming. We saw it coming. We saw it scale all the benefits that are coming out of cloud, Well-documented." The question for you is what's next after cloud, as people start to rethink, especially with COVID highlighting all the scabs out there. As people look at their exposed infrastructure and their software, they want to be modern. They want the modern apps. What's next after cloud. What's your vision? >> Well, with respect to cloud, we are taking customers on the multicloud vision, right? Where you truly get to say, "Oh, this workload, I want to be able to run it with Azure, with Amazon. I need to bring this one on premise. I want to run that one hosted. I'm not sure where I'm going to run that application." So develop it and then run it at the best place. And that's what we mean by our hybrid multicloud strategy is being able for customers to really have cloud flexibility and choice. And even as our preferred relationship with Amazon is going super well. We're seeing a real uptick. We're also happy that the Microsoft Azure VMware services now GA so they're in marketplace, our Google, Oracle, IBM and Alibaba partnerships in the much broader set of VMware cloud Partner Program. So the future is multicloud. Furthermore, it's then how do we do that in the Telco Network for the 5G build out, The Telco cloud? And how do we do that for the Edge? And I think that might be sort of the granddaddy of all of these because increasingly in a 5G world will be a nibbling Edge use cases. We'll be pushing AI to the Edge like we talked about earlier in this conversation, will be enabling these high bandwidth, with low latency use cases at the Edge, and we'll see more and more of the smart embodiment, smart cities, smart street, smart factory, or the autonomous driving. All of those need these type of capabilities. >> So there's hybrid and there's multi, you just talked about multi. So hybrid are data partner ETR, they do quarterly surveys. We're seeing big uptick in VMware cloud and AWS, you guys mentioned that in your call. we're also seeing the VMware cloud, VMware cloud Coundation and the other elements, clearly a big uptake. So how should we think about hybrid? It looks like that's an extension of on-prem maybe not incremental, maybe a share shift whereas multi looks like it's incremental, but today multi has really running on multiple clouds, but vision toward incremental value. How are you thinking about that? >> Yeah, so clearly the idea of multi is to link multiple. Am I taking advantage of multiple clouds being my private clouds, my hosted clouds. And of course my public cloud partners, we believe everybody will be running a great private cloud, picking a primary, a public cloud, and then a secondary public cloud. Hybrid then is saying, which of those infrastructures are identical so that I can run them without modifying any aspect of my infrastructure operations or applications. And in today's world where people are wanting to accelerate their move to the cloud, a hybrid cloud is spot on with their needs because if I have to refactor my applications it's a couple million dollars per app, And I'll see you in a couple of years. If I can simply migrate my existing application to the hybrid cloud, what we're consistently seeing is the time is one quarter and the cost is one eight, four less. Those are powerful numbers. And if I need to exit a data center, I want to be able to move to a cloud environment, to be able to access more of those native cloud services. Wow. That's powerful. And that's why for seven years now we've been preaching that hybrid is the future. It is not a waystation to the future. And I believe that more fervently today than when I declared it seven years ago. So we are firmly on that path that we're enabling a multi and a hybrid cloud future for all of our customers. >> Yeah. You addressed that like CUBE 2013. I remember that interview vividly was not a waystation. I got (murmurs) the answer. Thank you Pat, for clarifying than going back seven years. I love the vision. You're always got the right wave. It's always great to talk to you, but I got to ask you about these initiatives you seeing clearly last year or a year and a half ago, project Pacific name out almost like a guiding directional vision, and then put some meat on the bone Tansu and now you guys have that whole Cloud Native Initiative is starting to flower up thousand flowers are blooming. This year Project Monterrey has announced same kind of situation. You're showing out the vision. What are the plans to take that to the next level and take a minute to explain how project Monterey, what it means and how you see that filling out. I'm assuming it's going to take the same trajectory as Pacific. >> Yeah. Monetary is a big deal. This is rearchitecting The core of vSphere. It really is ripping apart the IO stack from the intrinsic operation of a vSphere and ESX itself, because in many ways, the IO we've been always leveraging the NIC and essentially virtual NICs, but we never leverage the resources of the network adapters themselves in any fundamental way. And as you think about SmartNICs, these are powerful resources now where they may have four, eight, 16, even 32 cores running in the smartNIC itself. So how do I utilize that resource? But it also sits in the right place in the sense that it is the network traffic cop. It is the place to do security acceleration. It is the place that enables IO bandwidth optimization across increasingly rich applications where the workloads, the data, the latency get more important both in the data center and across data centers to the cloud and to the Edge. So this rearchitecting is a big deal. We announced the three partners, Intel, Nvidia, Mellanox, and Penn Sandow that we're working with. And we'll begin the deliveries of this as part of the core vSphere offerings of beginning next year. So it's a big rearchitecting. These are our key partners. We're excited about the work that we're doing with them. And then of course our system partners like Dell and Lenovo, who've already come forward and says, "Yeah, we're going to be bringing these to market together with VMware." >> Pat, personal question for you. I want to get your personal take, your career, going back to Intel. You've seen it all, but the shift is consumer to enterprise. And you look at just recently snowflake IPO, the biggest ever in the history of wall street, an enterprise data's company. And the enterprise is now relevant. Enterprise feels consumer. We talked about consumerization of IT years and years ago, but now more than ever the hottest financial IPO enterprise, you guys are enterprise. You did enterprise at Intel. (laughs) You know the enterprise, you doing it here at VMware. The enterprise is the consumer now with cloud and all this new landscape. What is your view on this? Because you've seen the waves, and you've seen the historical perspective. It was consumer, was the big thing. Now it's enterprise, what's your take on all this? How do you make sense of it? Because it's now mainstream. what's your view on this? >> Well, first I do want to say congratulations to my friend Frank, and the extraordinary snowflake IPO, and by the way, they use VMware. So not only do I feel a sense of ownership 'cause Frank used to work for me for a period of time, but they're also a customer of ours. So go Frank, go snowflake. We're we're excited about that. But there is this episodic, this to the industry where for a period of time it is consumer-driven and CES used to be the hottest ticket in the industry for technology trends. But as you say, it is now shifted to be more business centric. And I've said this very firmly, for instance, in the case of 5G where I do not see consumer a faster video or a better Facebook, isn't going to be why I buy 5G. It's going to be driven by more business use cases where the latency, the security and the bandwidth will have radically differentiated views of the new applications that will be the case. So we do think that we're in a period of time and I expect that it's probably at least the next five years where business will be the technology drivers in the industry. And then probably, hey, there'll be a wave of consumer innovation and I'll have to get my black turtlenecks out again and start trying to be cool, but I've always been more of an enterprise guy. So I like the next five to 10 years better. I'm not cool enough to be a consumer guy. And maybe my age is now starting to conspire against me as well. >> Hey, Pat, I know you've got to go, but quick question. So you guys, you gave guidance, pretty good guidance, actually. I wondered have you and Zane come up with a new algorithm to deal with all this uncertainty or is it kind of back to old school gut feel? (laughs) >> Well, I think as we thought about the year as we came into the year and obviously, COVID smacked everybody, we laid out a model, we looked at various industry analysts, what we call the swoosh model, right? Q2, Q3 and Q4 recovery, Q1 more so, Q2 more so, and basically, we build our own theories behind that. We test it against many analysts, the perspectives, and we had vs and we had Ws and we had Ls and so on. We picked what we thought was really sort of grounded of the best data that we could put our own analysis, which we have substantial data of our own customer's usage, et cetera, and pick the model. And like any model, you put a touch of conservatism against it, and we've been pretty accurate. And I think there's a lot of things, we've been able to sort of, with good data good thoughtfulness, take a view and then just consistently manage against it and everything that we said when we did that back in March, sort of proven out incrementally to be more accurate. And some are saying, "Hey, things are coming back more quickly." And then, oh we're starting to see the fall numbers climb up a little bit. Hey, we don't think this goes away quickly. There's still a lot of secondary things to get flushed through the various economies, as stimulus starts tailoring off small businesses are more impacted and we still don't have a widely deployed vaccine. And I don't expect we will have one until second half of next year. Now there's the silver lining to that, as we said, which means that these changes, these faster to the future shifts in how we learn, how we work, how we educate, how we care for, how we worship, how we live, they will get more and more sedimented into the new normal relying more and more on the digital foundation. And we think ultimately that has extremely good upsides for us longterm, even as it's very difficult to navigate in the near term. And that's why we are just raving optimists for the longterm benefits of a more and more digital foundation for the future of every industry, every human, every workforce, every hospital, every educator, they are going to become more digital. And that's why I think going back to the last question, this is a business driven cycle, we're well positioned, and we're thrilled for all of those who are participating with VMworld 2020. This is a seminal moment for us and our industry. >> Pat, thank you so much for taking the time. It's an enabling model. It's what platforms are all about. You get that. My final parting question for you is whether you're a VC investing in startups or a large enterprise who's trying to get through COVID with a growth plan for that future. What is a modern app look like? And what does a modern company look like in your view? >> Well, a modern company would be that instead of having a lot of people looking down at infrastructure, the bulk of my IT resources are looking up at building apps. Those apps are using modern CICD data pipeline approaches built for a multicloud embodiment, right? And of course, VMware is the best partner that you possibly could have. So if you want to be modern, cool on the front end, come and talk to us. >> All right. Pat Galsinger the CEO of VMware here on theCUBE for VML 2020 virtual here with theCUBE virtual. Great to see you virtually Pat. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for your time. >> Hey, thank you so much. Love to see you in person soon enough, but this is pretty good. Thank you, Dave. Thank you so much. >> Okay. You're watching theCUBE virtual here for VMworld 2020. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vallente with Pat Gelsinger. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> the M wear an Amazon seriously deep in a partnership. Well, you know, in some ways will say number one in public, coming together with number one in private. That's a big deal customers >> want. Oh, absolutely, customer, not a Hassan. Don't do anything. I mean nothing unless they believe there is meaningful customer demand people. Conventional wisdom on that deal was it was a one way trip to the hotel cloud. If Oranje and it's become a boon for the data center. Okay, they're just big sucking sound with Public Cloud were everything congregate 0.1 and three years ago, that was the prevailing wisdom. And he's committed. He's committed to this. Your commitment is the one you're in it to win it Way went into a sort of a trumpet in sleep. How's this gonna work that we committed ourselves? We do your poorly. This interview's Andy, and I know a lot of little action items. They get finished the week before the cat. >> You're watching the M World 2019 on the Cube

>> the stage with rail Farrell and Greg Lavender. They had a kind of landscape there of 21 new technologies that are super interesting. I geek out, get excited about any fading. Hey, guys. >> Hey, you're watching live coverage of the M World 2019 on the Cube, the global leader in high tech coverage.

>> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high-tech coverage, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2019. Bought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here at Vmworld 2019, San Francisco, California. We're in Moscone North Lobby. I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Dave Vellante. Dave, 10 years of covering VMworld. This is our 10th year. Pat, you've been on every year since 2010. We have photos. >> That's sort of scary. >> You had a goatee back then. (Pat laughs) We've heard your rap going way back. Welcome back, good to see you. >> Oh man, scary. You guys probably got some dirt on me. Boy, I better be careful. >> John: Pat Gelsinger, the CEO of VMware on theCUBE. Thanks for coming on this evening. >> Oh, always a pleasure to be on with you guys, love it. >> Don't end up as driftwood. Security is a do over. We're going to talk about all that. >> We're going to spend the entire segment just talking about Pat Gelsinger's predictions. We'll recycle some of them, but let's get into the core news here, VMworld. You've done such an amazing job. We've given you a lot of props on theCUBE over the years, but still continuing, even in the market climate that's swinging up and down right now, VMware still producing great results. The team is executing. Their transition since October 2016 when you kind of made that move, cloud is it, clear vision, a lot's been falling into place. Pivotal has dropped on your lap, and you got the engineering stuff coming out on top of vSphere and a bunch of other things. Great stuff, I mean, you must be geeking out. >> Well, thank you. At the US gymnastics finals, Simone Biles did a triple double. First time ever in competition. And I think of our last week as a triple double, right, two major acquisitions, an earnings call, and now VMworld and all the announcements as part of it. It's like wow. >> John: You stick the landing, you stick the landing. >> That's right, we did yesterday morning. We stuck the landing and Ray did that today as well. So super proud of the team in bringing these across the line. And I think certainly meeting with many of the customers and the partners here everybody's sort of going wow. And I was excited about VMware before I got here. Now I'm just euphoric, and it's really-- >> I'm told Ray did an exceptional job. I'm going to talk to him later today on theCUBE. Today in his keynote he was great. He repeated the messages over and over again, but he nailed the tech piece. I got to ask you, as the engine of VMware is continuing to be put together and expand it's like a new turbo engine gets pulled in here. There's a lot of really good engineering going on. What are you most excited about? How would you describe all the action going on? If someone says, "Pat, what's the underlying engine here?" What's being built? What's going to be the outcome of all this? >> Well, I think it sort of boils down to, right, these two phrases that you heard from me yesterday. We're going to engineer for good, the tech for good stuff, we're going to do good engineering. And doing both of those is just okay. And you sort of say, "Hmm, we got vSAN," right? We're not being able to optimize the performance because big blocks, little blocks, latency, buffer size, all this other kind of stuff, so now we're doing Magna, right? And when you see that demonstration there, it's like we're going to do it automatically for you to be a fine-grain optimizing your storage. Wow, that's pretty cool, and it's intelligence, right? It's sort of saying, "Wow, this is really cool." So let's go automatically produce an understanding of the underlying network, understand what's going on, give you the rules that we recommend, and allow you to simulate them, which is super cool, right? Within minutes, we will give the network engineer more understanding of what's really going on in our applications, and then allow them to see it in real time and then apply it. Every one of these, and it's just 10 or 15 tremendous engineers who are doing these little innovations that are fundamentally changing the industries that they're in, in addition to the big stuff. It's just thrilling. >> Dave did a survey before coming into VMworld with customers with a panel. 41% said they're not going to change their spending habits with VMware so creating the-- >> Dave: They said they're going to increase-- >> Increase. >> In the second half, only 7% said they're going to decrease. >> So great customer loyalty, and remember, VMware's moving so fast and transit. Customers aren't moving as fast as you guys are, and you've talked about that before. What are you hearing from customers as they look at it and say, "Wow, is it too much new stuff?" 'Cause they want to continue to operate, but they also want to enable the developer piece. Because remember, DevOps means dev and ops. You guys got the ops piece down. You're adding stuff to it. There's always concerns there making sure it's smooth and you guys work on that. The dev piece becomes super critical. That's where Amazon really shined with public cloud. So hybrid cloud's here. What is the DevOps equation for hybrid? I mean Kubernetes is a good start. Where do you see it going? >> Yeah, and that's really the center. To me, that is the most important news of VMworld this year is the entire Tanzu message, the coming together of Pivotal, the coming together of Pacific, coming together with Mission Control, so really leveraging VMware in the run layer, leveraging Pivotal in the build, and Heptio in the manage, right, and those coming together into Tanzu. I think that's the most important thing that we're doing. And I think for operators, which is really the center of our audience here at VMworld, they've always struggled with those crazy developers. They do this cool new stuff. It's not operational, it's not secure. But in bringing those together, the magic formula for that is Kubernetes. And that's why we're making these big bets. The move with Pivotal, obviously the Heptio guys, I mean Joe Beda and Craig, they're just the rock stars of that community because they really are solving in an industry-consensual standard way. That's really the magic of Kubernetes. This ain't a VMware thing, this is an industry thing. >> Is Kubernetes the technology enabler? I mean, TCP/IP was that in the old networking days. It enabled a lot of shifts in the industry. You were part of that wave. Is Kubernetes that disruptive enabler? >> Yeah, I really see it as one of those key transition points in the industry. And as I sort of joked, if my name was Scott, and we were 20 years ago, I'd be banging the table calling it Java. And Java defined enterprise software development for two decades. By the way, Scott's my neighbor. He's down the hill, so I look down on Mr. McNealy. I always sort of like that. (everybody laughs) >> He looks up to you. >> But it changed how people did enterprise software development for the last two decades. And Kubernetes has that same kind of transformative effect, but maybe even more important, it's not just development but also operations. And I think that's what we're uniquely bringing together with Project Pacific, really being able to bridge those two worlds together. And if we deliver on this, I think the next decade or two will be the center of innovation for us, how we bridge those two roles together and really give developers what they need and make it operator friendly out of the box, cross the history to the future. This is pretty powerful. >> So that does lead to the big question. You just mentioned developers. And when you look out the VMworld audience, it's not comprised of huge developers. I know you're thinking about this, so what's your plan to attract those developers? You're giving them platform now, and the technologies. but those builders, what are you going to do for them? Is it build community, more events, more training? What's the plan there? >> Yeah, and I'd say I think about it in a couple of different context. One is if we were here six years ago, and you would have asked me about open source, right? I mean, VMware's reputation in the open source community wasn't good, right? We hired Dirk, we started to build momentum, make contributions. One of the litmus tests for Joe and Craig on Heptio, 'cause remember, a lot of people could have bought Heptio. Because some was who's going to be the buyer, but also will they be a willing seller. And their litmus test was are you really serious about open source, right? Are you really committed to the open source, Kubernetes tree and development and cloud-native computing foundation? Are you really there? 'Cause they were also looking do I want to be bought by you? Do I want to be part of the VMware family? And we passed the test. That's why Heptio's part of the team. Clearly, this has been central to Pivotal and their views. So we have to be open-source credible. We also have to be developer credible, and those two are tightly linked. And that's why we noted on stage Pivotal, particularly the Java community, is three-plus million developers. Bitnami is two million-ish developers. We now have high volume connections to the developer community, and you're going to see us show up in dramatically more profound ways at places like Kubicon and SpringOne is coming up, just start to be in the developer spaces. And ultimately, you got to do stuff that they care about. At the end of the day, winning developers has nothing to do with great marketing, even though that's important. You have to do great code, right, and bring them value to their development assignments. And we think with the assets that we're lining up, that's why we did Pivotal, Bitnami, Heptio, some of our organic things, Dirk's leadership here. I believe that a year or two from now VMware could be seen as the most developer and open source enterprise company in the industry. And that's the goal that I'm on. >> Well, I have an idea for you. Allocate 1,000 engineers to open source and start having them build new applications, new workloads, give it away to the open source community, and then sell your products and services to them. That would get you in fast. >> Well, by the way, we now have hundreds of engineers who are committed to open source, who their full-time job is open source contributions. So I'm not to 1,000 yet, but I'm now several hundred that their day job, night job, weekend job is open source contribution. So we're becoming very credible, and as you heard me say in the keynote, we are now top three contributor to Kubernetes. This is big, and some areas like the networking area we're clearly the leader in a number of the key networking open source technologies, and you'll see us do more of those kind of projects. >> One of the things you mentioned, I mean you mentioned about open source six years ago, you might have rolled your eyes, or you might not have had an opinion on it 'cause the timing of where VMware was. But one thing you've been banging the drum on since 2012 is hybrid cloud. And so you see certain things early. You see those waves. That's what you're known for, in my opinion. You're really good about it. You see blockchain as a great wave, but as a headline I'm reading on Fortune it says, "VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger, "Bitcoin is bad for humanity." >> Sold all my bitcoin (laughs). >> Okay, so now are you implying then, and blockchain is a lot of open source components there. It's evolving, you've a lot of blockchain projects. So is that an indictment on the unregulated currency market or is it the underlying infrastructure? And are you excited about blockchain as an underlying? Is it one of those hybrid cloud moments for you, or is it more of we'll see how it develops? What's your thoughts? And explain the bitcoin comment too. >> Yeah, the idea of distributed ledger technology, immutable distributed trust, I've said I think of that and blockchain as the underlying technology as almost like public private key encryption, right? If we go back 40 years before RSA or Vashumi and Ari, it's that important. This is breakthrough, innovative technology in how you do distributed secure trust. That's powerful, so we are huge believers, strongly committed to blockchain and distributed leverager technology. Now, why do I make my comments like I do on bitcoin? So bitcoin, as it's implemented, and implementation of blockchain and distributed ledger, I assert is bad. It's bad for two reasons. One is it's an environmental crisis, right? A single ledger, if you and I transacted a penny, right, I would consume enough energy to power your house for half a day. I mean, it's incredible, and I mean, that's why you have these crazy bitfarms being built and people finding GPUs. >> So you think from a sustainability standpoint. >> Absolutely. >> That's where you came from. >> Climate sustainability, right, this is a terrible implementation of blockchain. Secondly, the way it's also done as well in this totally unregulated environment, almost all of its uses are for illicit and criminal purposes. That's who's trading in bitcoin as well. So its purpose is almost all illicit, right, and it's environmental crisis. I say bad. Now, I'm not saying that blockchain is bad. I think this is revolutionizing. >> I want to make sure we clarify that because obviously unregulated outside the United States has been a big problem. We see it in the SEC crackdown, and results are-- >> Studies have shown over 95% of the use of bitcoin is criminal, so say bad. Let's go make it good, and that's what I mean these two phrases, do good engineering, and engineer for good. How do we make blockchain, and this is part of the reason, we had just announced on Sunday a partnership with Australian Stock Exchange and Data Asset, that they're leveraging the VMware distributed ledger technology, right, as part of their go-forward strategy for the stock exchange of Australia. Well, that's good, right? We're making it suitable for enterprises, meeting the regulatory requirements and-- >> John: Are you happy with the progress of where the blockchain is for you guys? >> Absolutely, and we're order-plus magnitude better in terms of performance and energy consumption. So yeah, and we're just getting started. >> And it's consensus-based, which is great. A quick question for you on multicloud. So hybrid cloud you said in 2012, I challenged you on it, and you've been banging the drum since 2012. It's a couple years into it, and hybrid cloud is pretty much standard. People see it, recognize it as the cloud 2.0. Multicloud is all the buzz and all the rage. I hear it everywhere. What does it actually mean is a different debate, so I want to get your thoughts on defining what multicloud is and is it going to have that same gestation period of the same kind of years? 'Cause if it's seven years to get or six years to get hybrid cloud mainstream, is multicloud going to have a similar trajectory? >> Yeah, so let's try to be very crisp with the definition. Multicloud is simply that. Customers using multiple clouds for different business purposes. And what we said is is that we're going to help them manage. That's the center point of cloud health, right? Help customers manage, cost optimize, secure in a multicloud environment where the underlying infrastructure is dissimilar, not compatible, right? And in that sense, you sort of say you can have consistent operations if we do our job well with cloud health, but you're not going to have consistent infrastructure, meaning I can't VMotion between these things, I can't have higher these things. So that's the multicloud. Now a proper subset of multicloud is hybrid cloud. And hybrid cloud is where you have both consistent operations and consistent infrastructure. And that's when we can do things like you saw on the demo today, right? We're running a VMware stack on Azure. We're moving Azure running workloads in real time, right, without stunning them, pausing them, to an Amazon VMC instead of moving workloads from Amazon VMC onto an Azure instance. That's the hybrid cloud, and that's the power at work, from private data centers to multiple different targets in the public cloud where you can be optimizing the location of work nodes based on the proper business requirements. And that might be governance. That might be performance. It might be latency. It might be the time of the day of the week when you have capacity available, right? And that's really what we're saying. Consistent operations and consistent infrastructure, proper subset of multicloud. >> I have a question on something you said yesterday. You said, "Strength lies in differences not similarities." True, I buy that. There's a number of difference between you and your preferred public cloud partner. AWS doesn't use the term multicloud. They say you shouldn't say security's not broken. And there are a number. You want to be the best infrastructure and developer software company. They want to be that platform. They want to be the security cloud, on and on and on. So I see this impending collision course, maybe not tomorrow, but what are your thoughts on the differences and the good or bad that does for the industry? >> Yeah, well, we appreciate Amazon, the investments that we're making. We've both bet big with each other, and they've been a great partner. And in fact, I'm going to talk to Andy before the end of the week, update some of the announcements and some of the things. Great partner, we have regular cadence of our activities with each other. And as we said, they're our preferred public cloud partner. And with it, it's preferred in two senses. It's a go to market and how we position that, but it's also an R&D statement, right? This is where we're doing a lot of core engineering, and that will flow into private cloud embodiments, flow into our other public cloud and our cloud-verified partners. But that's the point of the arrow in terms of the innovations, the go to market, and the R&D aspects of the partnership. And I expect we're going to be here five years from now and we're going to have this conversation, and I'm going to answer it exactly the same way. >> That'll be our CUBE's 15th anniversary, and so we'll be excited for that. It's our 10 year, so I want to last question put you on the spot, looking back over 10 years, pick the moments that you think were key inflection points. What were key notable good things that happened, bad things that happened, or things that didn't happen, right? And then going forward 10 years, you laid out a few of them with Kubernetes. Just past 10 years, could be CUBE memories, but in VMware's world, you were at EMC first, then became CEO, a lot's changed. Paul Maritz laid out the original vision. And where we are today, what's your key moments? >> Yeah, well, I think if you go all the way back, obviously, hey when the first WSX, right, people could run Linux and Windows on their client. Wow, right? The first VMotion, right, oh my gosh, and that sort of ushered in ESX. Obviously the transition from Diane to Paul, the public offering, boy, that was a pretty tumultuous time. And from Paul to Pat was very much we lay it out pretty much this any cloud vision, and that model, it was formative and we're sort of bringing it together. It was get rid of some assets, bring together, so sort of that transition was challenging for the company. But then we've started to sort of systematically say build from the core. What do we have? What do we need as we started to build these layers in the concentric circles? The Nicira acquisition, boom, that was the shot that changed the world of networking. And obviously, that doesn't change quickly, but we have a multibillion dollar networking business, Avi Networks, VeloCloud, we're building that set of assets. >> Software-defined data centers. The Core engine, that was a key point. >> Dave: That was a total game changer. >> You cannot build a software-defined data center if you don't address the networking. It's just that simple, and that's why I was so passionate about that. Obviously, the HCI move with vSAN. Joe Tucci was so pissed off at me, right? (everybody laugh) What are you doing? It's operative. It's part of the ingredients of the data center, Joe. I got to do it, wait. >> John: Just being a software company. >> Yeah, yeah, right, so that was a pretty tense moment. The period of the Dell EMC merger, a tough period, right, as well, and just where the company's going to go. And within a week, right, I'm going to be fired. I'm going to be spun out, right? I'm going to be the new CEO of Dell, right? I mean, it was going to be HP. >> John: All the rumor. >> Stock is 40, obviously the Amazon moment, when we did that partnership. vCloud Air, hey, we had the right idea. We didn't implement it properly, and then we did it right with the Amazon partnership, and that just changed the cloud industry. And I think we're going to look at today, this week, and the moves with Heptio, Kubernetes, Pivotal, those pieces coming together, and to this audience Project Pacific, right, it's just like okay, wow, everyone of them will become Kubernetes enabled. 20,000 selfies with Joe Beda, right, have now been ushered because it is that game changing, we believe. This is the biggest free architecture of the Core platform in a decade, so. >> My favorite quote from you was if you're not out on that next wave, you're driftwood. You said that on the QA, I forget which year it was. >> And mine's security's the do over. (Pat laughs) >> You're doing it over, you're doing it, Mr. Gelsinger. >> Next 10 years, what's the big wave everyone should be on? What's the wave that you identify? You've seen many waves, you've created waves, you've been part of waves. What's the wave for the next 10 years that people should pay attention to, that they need to be on? >> Well, if they're not on the networking wave, get on it, right? They got to be on this multicloud hybrid wave. Could it be louder? The Kubernetes one is the one, right? That's the one I'm going to put at the front of the list. And this move in security, I am just passionate about this, and as I've said to my team, if this is the last thing I do in my career is I want to change security. We just not are satisfying our customers. They shouldn't put more stuff on our platforms if they can't-- >> John: National defense issues, huge problems. >> It was just terrible. And I said if it kills me, right, I'm going to get this done. And they says, "It might kill you, Pat." >> Mount Kilimanjaro right there. Pat, thank you for all your commentary, and great look back 10 years. You've been one of our favorite guests coming on theCUBE, bringing A game, you're bringing the tech chops, the historian aspect, also you're running one of the most valuable open source companies in the cloud. (Pat and John laugh) >> Love you guys, thanks so much. >> Thanks, Pat. Pat Gelsinger here inside theCUBE. Our 10th year, VM's looking good off the tee right now, middle of the fairway, as they say, for the next 10 years. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vallante, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by IBM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to our live coverage here in Mosconi North Lobby, Of'em World 2019. I'm John for a Student and a Volante celebrating our 10th VM World or 10 years of covering the M world. Dave's stew. What a run been Go back across Mosconi South 10 years ago with the green set. This is 10 years later. 10:10 p.m. World BMC Rule No longer the show, so that kind of folds in the Dell Technologies Man, The world's changed. Pat Nelson had just delivered his keynote as CEO Sanjay Poon and a CEO came on talk to customers stew. A lot of acquisitions, a lot of cloud native, a lot of cloud. 2.0, this is turning into VM. Wear 2.0, where vm zehr kind of only one part of the equation. So let's jump into the analysis, Dave. I mean, you put out some killer research on silken angle dot com, and we keep on dot com around customer spend still, we put out a lot of analysis on all the key trends that Vienna was playing into. Cloud two point. Oh, is what we're calling it. It's enterprise Cloud of fresh scale Day. What? What? What? What do you want? Your analysis, Latino >> John, when you go back. 10 VM Worlds ago, it was all about virtualization, completely changing the deployment dynamics. When when I first saw a VM deployed, I went, Oh, my God, This is gonna change everything. And it did. But while compared to now what's happening with cloud and a I we heard so much about five g. It was also the big, big difference in the ecosystem. Back when e. M. C owned VM wearing 2010 there was that sort of Chinese wall stew. You were working there, you know, just before that. And there wasn't a lot of, you know, swapping of I P, if you will. They were sort of treating them as unequal player to net app and everybody else out there. Tod Nielsen used to say, for every dollar spent on of'em were licensed, 15 spent an ecosystem. You don't hear that kind of narrative anymore, you hear we're crushing the HC. I vendor where number one basically a sort of backhand to Nutanix We heard on the on the keynote Very tight integration VX rail project Dimension So much, much tighter integration since Pat Tell Singer joined VM. Where from the emcee lots has changed >> will be a lot of research on reporting leading up to the show around Cloud two point. Oh, I'll see Dev. Ops is willing to home of the dimension on enterprise scale, the number of acquisitions of'em wears made and then, boom. They dropped two monsters on the table or the 11th hour pivotal for 2.7 billion carbon black for 2.1 billion. Lot of stories in those AK was other acquisitions, your analysis and how that played out today on the >> Kino. As Dave said when we started coming to this event back in 2010 you know, the virtual machine was the center of the universe. What were these servers that it lived on, how to storage and network and get fixed to be ableto live in that environment And the keynote. It was a lot of cloud, you know, John, we brought in a lot of the Cloud camp people that first year and some people were like, Why are we talking about Cloud? This is VM World, and we're like, Well, this is the future. And today we're not talking about V EMS at the center we're talking about containers were talking about cloud native applications, that multi cloud world absolutely something that pack l singer did. Front center actually felt it almost glossed over a little bit of the H C, I and NSX and all these wonderful things. Sure, there was some big del pieces in there. The M word cloud on Delhi emcee the Del Di are, you know, data protection, power protect, you know, into the VM where peace something that you definitely would not have seen under the old emcee Federation model. So Michael Dell, absolutely having his strong footprint here. Dave's done a lot of analysis talking about things like Pivotal getting pulled in and like so many different acquisitions, Pivotal came out of'em wear and, you know, carbon black Boston based companies so many different pieces here to get them talking about applications and where Veum, where the company sits in this multi cloud world where they're trying to be, you know, maintain their relationship with us. >> Let's get into the analysis on the whole ecosystems. I really want to dig into the work. Dave, you didn't and the team did. But let's go through the keynote first. So my personal opinion was it felt like, um, I'll give him a C plus Pat because it just didn't have a lot of meat. In my opinion, it felt like it was too much tech for good, although super important to have that mission driven stuff I think is really valuable as the market tends to look >> at tech >> as bad actors. I thought that was addressing. That was a positive thing, but it felt too much. I didn't see a lot of specifics. It felt do is and David, if they were hiding something, they were putting a lot of it didn't seem like there's a lot of substance coming out specifically around how Kubernetes was going to be impacted. Specifically, how Cooper is going to sit within the VM where ecosystem products specifically I just didn't feel like the product side was there. >> Well, you know what? I'll say it, John and General, I agree with you because Day one usually is here is the company vision. And if the vision is kubernetes, well, we've been hearing kubernetes for a bunch of years. Kubernetes is not the answer. Kubernetes is an enable ionizing technology job. Ada, who we up on stage? You know, we had him on the Cuban. He's like, look committed. This is not a magic layer. It's this thin layer that's gonna help us go between clouds. Getting into some of their future projects is something I usually would expect on Day two, the vision of V. M. Whereas a company, it feels like we're in that transition from who do you want a big tech for? Good? That that's great stuff. You know, Pat has a long history of talking about, you know, that moral compass that he has and wants the company to live. That which is a good change from many of the Silicon Valley companies. But, you know, I didn't get a strong feel for their vision and it was not >> a conservative. They didn't want to actually put a position down there because I think everyone in the hallway that I talked to wants to know how Cooper is gonna impact the sphere for instance, is gonna change the makeup of the sphere. And what's the impact on the product side the head that stat about bare metal being 8%. I was like, a little bit biased. Maybe there, So are they. They tiptoeing. Dave, you think? I mean, the spend numbers show that if you could just hold the line for 24 months and the new trends won't take away from that license, I mean, is it a tactical thing? Or do you think that here's the >> thing? I want to go back? I do want to give'em where? Props on one thing and you've used this term to If you go back to 8 4009 Paul Maritz talked about. We're building the software mainframe and passed them pretty consistent about that they used, they said, Any workload, any app? What's different today than back then is, he said, any workload, any up any cloud. Really. Cloud wasn't as much of a factor back then, but that vision has been fairly consistent it to you. Answer your question, Veum. We're spending remains strong, you know they're spending data that we shared with the GT R on silicon angle yesterday and today is that 41% of the VM were installed. Base is going to spend Maurine the second half of 2019 and only 7% are going to spend less. Okay, that's a real positive. But at the same time, the data clearly shows that cloud is negatively impacting VM wear spend and so that's a real threat. So multi club Pat said today technologists who Master Master Multi Cloud will own the next decade. He's talking to his audience. I'm not sure I agree with that. How much you're mastering Multi Cloud is what's gonna be the determining factor to own the next decade. >> Well, I'm stumped. Stick with my position. That multi cloud is not a reality. I think it's really more overhyped, and our actually just started to be hyped and probably will be then over hypes. And then seven years from now we'll start seeing multiple clouds truly interoperable. But I think multi cloud is we find on the Cuba simply enterprises have multiple vendors and multiple environments that happen to be those vendors have cloud, so I don't think it actually is an operating model yet. But again, just like on the Cube 2012 stew. We talked about hybrid Cloud. I called. I asked, yes. When was it a halfway house of the weigh station? He had a connection. >> So gassy. So, John, here's what I say. Number one is customers today absolutely have multiple clouds. But for multi cloud, to be a reality multi cloud must be greater than the sum of just the piece is that it's made up today and absolutely were not there. Today. VM wear has a strong reason why it should be at the center of that discussion. But they're gonna be right at loggerheads with Red Hat and Microsoft and Google and Cisco in that kind of debate at the multi cloud >> and we had, we had a story on our special report on silicon angle dot com. Check it out. It's called Coping With Multi Cloud. Were coping was by design. Coping as a mechanism used to deal with uncertainty. Coping strategies is what CEOs are going to deal with. But read that post. But in it I kind of see. I mean, I kind of agree and disagree. We have two perspectives, Dave developing. You want to get your thoughts butts do on this C I ose that come from a traditional I t background tend to like multi vendor things because they know they don't want lock. And they're afraid if you then swing to the progressive side si SOS, for instance, who are have a gun to their head in terms of security, they're all saying no, we're betting on one cloud and we'll have backup clouds, but our development staff is gonna build stacks. Have AP eyes, and we'll share those AP ice to our suppliers. Cloud vendors are saying Support our specs. So to spectrums the old school I t. Guys saying Multi vendor equals multi cloud. And then then, on the other end, See says to say, I'm gonna build technology and build a stack, exposed FBI's and let the clouds support my my tooling that not the other way around your thoughts. I >> pulled a quote in my piece That's on Silicon angle as well. From David. If lawyer and he was defining a hybrid multi cloud, he said, any application of application service can run on any note of the hybrid cloud without rewriting re compiling a re testing. My argument would be you're never gonna have that North Star without a high degree of homogeneity. And there's three examples of high degrees of homogeneity in hybrid Cloud. Today it's azure stack. It's clouded customer, and it's outposts. You're so this idea that we're gonna have this diverse set of clouds and yet they're all gonna run is one to me. I ask, Is it technically feasible? And is it Is it practical? >> Well, Steve, Steve Harry was on his Hey had announced the signal. FX has come. Portfolio can be sold on a big deal to split when he was on The Cube with me last week and he said one of them looking back on the 10 years that 1 may be M where great was virtual ization allowed for massive efficiencies and improvements without rewriting the apse. The question today's point is, is that a reality? Can what's next? So that that next gain that's not gonna require people to rewrite their APs >> well and that actually not rewriting the axes where VM or has its strength. Because, you know, I I made a joke during the keynote. It was like you have a V M insert magic. Congratulations. You now have a cloud workload because I just did. VM were cloud and it's the same app. But on the other hand, that's actually been my biggest dig on V M. Where is the long pole? In the tent and modernization is modernizing wraps. And that is that Tom Zoo that Veum were announced. They're taking bit Nami and pivotal because we do need to modernize the application. If you have an application, you've been running long enough that your users are complaining about it. We need to modernize that. VM wear has not been much of enabler of that pivotal. Yes, absolutely. That's what the cloud Foundry Labs, the pivotal Labs has been doing for years. It is a tough thing to do. That's what the developers we hear it Amazon. They're building new abs. I don't hear modern building new app at VM where, but they are moving in that >> direct question for you guys and John you in particular, but also used to as well followed AWS probably more closely than any two people I know, Pat said. Strength, lies and differences, not similarities. I've noted many differences in philosophy between A. W S and V M. where they're both winning in the market place. We know a divorce is growing much faster, but a divorce doesn't believe in multi cloud. A Devil's doesn't believe security is broken. That's that's VM wears narrative VM where says it wants to be the best infrastructure and develop our software company. That's kind of like eight of us is the platform for that. They both want to be the security cloud, and and VM were said today they have 10,000 cloud data centers, and I'm guessing that Andy Jassy wouldn't think that many of those data centers are cloud data centers. Your thoughts on the differences between between A. W S s philosophy and VM wears narrative. And can they both? Is there enough market for them both to win? >> Well, it's strikingly different. I mean, AWS is just in a breed of its own. VM wears hedging and playing there their bets. They're kind of putting, you know, bets on each horse, right? Interesting enough in the cloud thing. There was no mention of Google Cloud. I didn't see that mentioned there. Andi was speculation. Wouldn't Oracle be great partnering with Google? That's not a rumor. I'm just kind of put it out there. That would be a good combination partnership, given the Oracle's cloud is failing miserably, I think v M. Where because of the operating leverage in the enterprise, has that operational layer down to me, Amazon is the model, the future, because they are clearly born with a dev ops mindset. They have an environment where developers can build applications and they could operate. It scale with all the efficiencies of operations. So I think cloud to foreigners were calling. It is all about having developers and operational excellence without a lot of disruption or re platforming. So I think that's where the differences are. You have company that have toe have to work with this world of legacy applications, and that requires first lift and shift, which doesn't become attractive. Then you add containers on the game changes. So I think container ization really was, I think, the seminal moment in the shift where where you got kubernetes and containers. So let the enterprise cloud. Native guys get in and have an operational framework that takes advantage of the horsepower of public cloud, which is computing storage, which is why we think networking and security will be the absolute focus areas for Cloud two point. Oh, and Amazon is just dominating the depth and the ops. And I don't think anyone is coming close. >> I'd love to hear your thoughts, too, but I just got caught. I don't think Oracles Cloud is failing miserably. I think it's I wouldn't say it that way. I think their infrastructures of service is irrelevant and the cloud is all about SAS. But just, you know, that's what I think. Waken debate that somebody >> has been great for the Oracle customers. But in terms of all metrics in terms of public and enterprise, cloud with multiple environments nonstarter. >> So there's a bit of a schism out there if you talk to customers. There are many customers when they deploy in Public Cloud, although uses, you know, compute storage and, like the identity management and that's it. And they'll stop and I talkto you con many customers that are using kubernetes so that if they want to hit the eject button, but they're all on Amazon today, so it's not like they're all fleeing Amazon or doing it. But we talked to lots of developers that are deep in aws they're using those service is they're using Lambda and they're building it. So how deep will they go? And that's where I look at this VM we're offering. And it's if I'm gonna take the sphere and extend that with kubernetes. I saw Cuba. Well, um, actually in the Twitter stream said it is, you know, cloud lock in to Dato is what we get if we do that. Because the whole reason VM were originally created called Foundry. So they didn't have to take that entire V's fear colonel and put it everywhere. So it's a nice bridge. That van, where has the partnership they have with AWS is a great strategy. But I still think it is a bridge to an ultimate solution where they'll still use the M where the embers not going anyway. But that shift of where my application live in what service is I do is going to change a lot over the next 3 to 5. >> Let's not lose sight, Dave, of where we are in the industry. I mean, we're at VM World 2019. We go to reinvents coming up. We kind of live in a tech bubble in the sense that all this stuff is all kind of great skating to where the puck is gonna be. But the reality is in most I tea shops, and again, I use ceases as a proxy in my mind, because they're in the cutting edge of all the real critical nature of security, of the impact that harm that could happen to a company. So I look at sea. So she's more of a canary in the coal mine for trends than the nutritional CEO. At this point, most enterprises are just trying to rationalize kubernetes, generally speaking like never mind, like making a centerpiece of their entire architecture. They're looking at their existing environment saying, Hey, I got V EMS that did great for me. Serve a consolidation enabled more efficiency, not rewriting code. Now what? I gotta do kubernetes and do all this other stuff. How do I suspect my VM with kubernetes? Is it on bare metal? So I think we're way ahead right now. In the narrative, I think the reality is that people catch up. That's where the proof is gonna come into. That's why the customer survey numbers are interesting. >> Keep keep. Townsend is set on the Cube VM, where moves at the speed of the CEO, so they're not moving too far ahead of them, but they are key heating up with them. >> Let me share some data to share some data so you could go to Silicon Angle. Look at the V M World 2019 90 spending survey containers, Cloud NSX and pivotal its data from Enterprise Technology Research that we analyzed. There's no evidence right now that Container's air hurting VM wear. But then that was the narrative that containers are gonna kill the M where but long term. There's real threats there. So that's what the pivotal acquisition, at least in part was about. I want to address the pivotal acquisition cause we haven't dug into it a little bit a cz, Much as I'd like to see. There's really three things there. One pivotal was struggling. You look at the stock price, you look at their buying patterns, you know the stock was down that not even close to their original AIPO price, so they wanted to get out of the public eye right now would not be on that 30 day shot clock. The second is it's a hedge on containers. And the third is it's a financial scheme. I mean, I'll call it that VM wears paying $800 million in cash for an asset that's worth $4 billion. How can that be? Well, they already owned 15% of pivotal there. Give. They're exchanging stock. So their trade trading paper to Adele in exchange for Dell's 70% ownership in Pivotal. So they pick up this asset, and it's basically a forced migration by Michael Del, who controls 96% of the voting shares. So there's all kinds of inside nuance going on there that nobody's really talked about it a >> great deal for Of'em. Where and Michael Dell? It's >> a very good deal for VM wear and Michael Dell. >> Let's unpack that are rapidly. >> Just did the one piece on that, right, because kubernetes it was the elephant, the room that was damaging what Pivotal was doing. VM were made a couple of acquisitions VM where needs to react at, so it made sense to pull out back in. Even if it does go against some of the original mission, that Cloud Foundry and Pivotal had to be able to be that cloud native without that full strong time, >> it's all about building apse, right? It's all about enabling developers. >> Let's on that note. Let's go around the horn and talk about what we expect from the emerald this year. And then we'll kick off three days of wall to wall coverage. I'll start, I expect. And I'm not looking for is how VM wear and its ecosystem and who's really deep in the ecosystem, who's kind of independent and neutral, what they're doing with their containers and kubernetes play. Because I think the container revolution that was started with Dr Absolutely is very relevant to the C i o and the Sea. So so and then how they're using data in that in their applications. So you know how VM Way wants to position themselves on the control plane, how that fits in the NSX. I think containers in the container ization is going to change. I think bare metal is gonna be a super important topic in the next couple of years. Dio I'm kind of swinging back to the my feeling that you know, hyper convergence what it did for server storage networking back when you were calling those those moves. I think that kind of hyper convergence mentality is coming up the stack, and I think Containers and the Kubernetes Chess Board will will play out. >> I think if you my feelings, if you don't own a public cloud, you better convince your customers in your ecosystem that the future is in our definition of cloud, which is multi cloud. And that's what this VM world to me is all about. >> Yeah, you know, Veum wears taking their software state and trying to live in all of those cloud world. So you know, V. Amar has 600,000 customers and they want to be the ones to educate them on the kubernetes containers. You know you're at modernization, but there's a lot of other places customers can learn about this. No one understand where VM wear really adds value beyond all of those pieces, because all the cloud platforms have their kubernetes. >> A lot of other places, like the public cloud. That's where all the action >> exactly comes back down the cloud 2.0 Dev and ops developers and operations all come together with software. Thank you. Breaking it down here for three days. Wall to wall coverage here in Moscow north to set celebrating our 10th year covering VM World. Thanks for watching stay with us from or action after this short break.

>> from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering the M Wear Radio twenty nineteen. Brought to you by the M >> where >> Hi. Welcome to the Cube. Lisa Martin with John Farrier at the fifteenth annual Veum, Where radio, which is there are anti innovation summit. Pleased to welcome back one of the Cube alumni extraordinaire CEO Being where hot girl singer. Hey, Pat. Good morning. >> Good morning. Great to be with you guys today. Thanks >> so much Right to be here. So this this is the fifteenth radio your internal innovation summit that really has been very influential. NPM wears development over the last fifteen or so years About eighteen hundred engineers here. So each year growing Mohr and Mohr interest, excitement cross collaboration with India More talk to us about how this is really worthy of the CEOs. Time to come here. And with this geek fest, >> well, it is, in many ways, just one of these pieces of the VM wear R and D culture is a research and development innovation off site. And it's something, you know, long preceded me. But when I got here, it's like I'm going to keep doing it. Of course we are. You know this is sort of like the party for the top engineers, right? You know, they get to come geek out, share their best ideas, interact with each other. So it's become one of those unique pieces of our of our development culture and ultimately is, I say, bm where well to do two things right, developed great, breakthrough, innovative, disrupt the products and make our customers successful with those products. So everything that we do sort of centers around those two things. And obviously, if the products are great, we don't have that. We know what to do So to us, keeping that culture of innovation and giving our engineers time to really just geek out, see what each others are doing, challenge each other. It's really pretty special. And yeah, it deserves the CEO's time. >> And you've got You just had your sales president's club without top performers. On the sales side, this is the technical version. It hasn't been that organic piece of the VM were culture, engineering, leadership. But you also have acquisitions, just acquired it. Nami. Yes, you've had a few other you cloud health big time moves relationship with a ws azure. The cloud foundation stuff. How is lending it together? Because you have all this organic innovation. I see cloud management, networking, security outside suffer to find data center is playing out. As you you guys had predicted. How does the acquisitions fit into the culture and the radio? >> Well, you know, part of it is when we talked to many of the engineers about the acquisitions, we say, Hey, we do radio. They're like, huh? All right, this is well, it's this opportunity for us to see what everybody is doing interactive that level and good engineers are almost always part of the decision with respect acquisitions. So they just take to it like, you know, fish and water, right? They just jump in, right, start interacting with their peers. And it is such a, you know, open, diverse pool that all of sudden ideas air being a bounced off each other, homogenize challenged and, you know, people seeing how they can connect with people. So tow us. Many of the acquisitions just find us to be so beneficial to how they come into the company. And they quite appreciate it, you know, just getting back from sales club hate sales leaders >> and he was pretty good. I like this, you >> know, for many of those acquisitions. But the engineers, this is even better for you >> guys aren't just buying stuff up. You guys are very specific in your acquisitions. Cloud Health again is a great example. Scene. No air watch going with further back. Why? Bit, Nami, What was so big and important about it, Nami to acquire them? >> Well, you know, we saw a couple of things. One is that, you know, it's a company. They definitely had this ability, this respect. We're poor with the open source community, you know, and being able to cross between open source and enterprise credibility. That's exactly where I am, where seas and wants to be able to position ourselves so they fit exactly into that space. This idea of being able to bring enterprise packages is the cool open source applications space. And we already had a multiple set of marketplace efforts internally where we saw that we needed that ecosystem play for activities so they just snap so perfectly into the middle of that and very much hybrid will take cloud, uh, aspects to it. And as we do for every one of our acquisitions and I personally meet with every CEO before we do the deal Are they going to fit our culture? And you know, there aren't that many of our acquisitions where I have people saying no, no I'll i'll be the executive sponsor for this one. No, no, no, I will, I will. I will be No, no, no, please. I'll do this one. And you know, of course, the fact that it's in Seville, Spain, right? You know, I think I think if you it was just driven by vacation plans. But it's >> all well, of course, Erica Cube alumni. And we have a whole cube alumni thing going on here. There's no emanate work we're doing here just good people of nice. And so >> you're planing the Cube visit to civilly explain. It's >> like love, Teo. Of course, we have international presents. One of the things I always quote from you is Besides, that hybrid cloud reference years ago was a quote. You said I think twenty, twelve or twenty thirteen feet which year it wass seems like yesterday. You said if you're not out on that next wave your driftwood, so I gotta ask you here at radio you got You got all this organic stuff. It's kind of the wave's coming. Is this what wave is? Are you seeing the end? We're riding right now, because business is great. Um, you're pumping on all cylinders. You've kind of gone through your ten years that through the early days of and you got CEO and you know it. Everything's normal life now and you're on a good run. What waiver? You're going to be surfing on the business side of all this stuff behind you. What's what? When is this all fit in? >> Well, you know, one of the things that I think is so critical for us now and particularly with the, you know, the, um, war cloud on eight of us. Go now with the relationships with Azure and IBM. Alibaba are four thousand BC PP partners. So that's, you know, really starting to take off our BM or Cloud Foundation on premise. We have a big customer saying Okay, I get it right. Don't look down the stack. Look up. Rely on you guys to be the infrastructure. Bring that together for the hybrid infrastructure is a service. And to me You know, part of what I'm looking for for this from the conference is putting all those pieces together because our customers don't want to be doing it. They want us to do it, but we have to make it so consumable, so compelling that just sort of like the sphere. Was it our beginning? They just sort of say, the M where your hybrid cloud, That's what I want, right? And be ableto operationalize at a scale. And if we get that really working well for customers, the management, the automation, the security operations of that boy. Now we do have the opportunity to ride the Cuban eighties wife right into me. It really is. We have to straddle those two over the next several years, >> so make you know, super nice party stand, >> that embracing that next major trend, >> which is up on top of the stack program ability. >> Yeah. You know, when the aside describe Coburn at ease and containers, it's like Java was twenty years ago. You know, what was the last major software abstraction that the industry agreed upon? Jonah, It's almost exactly twenty years ago, and it defined middleware abstraction for the last twenty years. Containers Cooper, Netease the next middleware abstraction. And we see Cooper. Nate is becoming the next native a P I that thie VM where infrastructure, STD see will support and will deliver. And we're going to make containers and cue bernetti so seamless with regard to the core bm infrastructure that a customer never needs to decide. >> What impact will this have? I mean, I see you've been involved many ways talked about the Pentium in the Intel side of your career, I'll see and and what that enabled in terms of inflection, point and growth and creation of value. Where do you see this Cooper Netease Abstraction. If this is going to be one of those inflection points as you as you point out, how do you envision the impact to the industry? What's gonna happen? >> We see that Cuban eighties layer impacting down as well as impacting up, and that's why we see it. It's so critical to get it right. You know, it becomes the consumption a p I infrastructure, and we've talked about, you know, infrastructure is code or, you know, a P. I ittle dismiss a displace open stack. As an AP, I becomes the middle, where a pea eye of choice, but also that defines the middle where abstraction of choice. So all of your Web spheres, Web logics, Java communities, they're going to get displaced as well as they are re factored into this automated containerized, the scale out world. That's exactly where we're sitting. And that's another piece of the bit Nami acquisition that we just announce because you know, being ableto package containerized, open source applications packages exactly fits into that strategy as well. And if we do those two things, I think VM where is going to be extraordinarily well positioned for decades to come way past me? >> So let's talk about customers. Here we are at radio twenty, nineteen, fifteen years I mentioned you guys, This is a really competitive event. Engineers want to be here. You probably had well over a thousand projects. Submissions. How do customers one benefit from the innovations that are discussed here at radio, but also how to customers influence some of the projects of the exciting things that engineers want to put together? >> Well, one of the things that we really enjoy about the whole BM where R D community is you know engineers are leaving with customers all the time. We push him out into those places, you know, we selectively bring customers in and have them in Iraq. Tear a radio. We have other mechanisms, like flings, right? Yeah. These open source lightweight things that customers could be giving us code. We could be giving them code. We you regularly, you know, bring them into our campus for, you know, their participation and different advance programs. So it really is a very constant, ongoing and somewhat end and dialogue that we're having weather. That's from an early product concept that we might be seeing for the first time here at Radio Teo Act The part, this patient and beta activities before we roll them out broadly. So it really is having them participate in the end, the end roll of innovation. And sometimes Hey, it sounds like a good idea. And it sort of sucked right when we tried to do it. Other times they're like, Oh, wow, some of these things, really. I've taken off and gain legs while beyond what we would have dreamed of. >> What have you seen that this year's event? Project Wise featured project. Why's that really kind of caught your attention, Like you. That's a really good idea. >> Well, I must admit, I just landed last night, So today is my first day at radios. So I just got back from our sales club, as John mentioned earlier. So I think I'm gonna have to take a buy on that question here because I got to go do my homework here. >> We'LL ask the questions. I have attracted talent, engineering, talent That's also the best of the best elite forces. This is a challenge in the streets of retain talent on engineers. Love to work on a hard problem. I gotta ask you what, Some of the hard problems at the end where is trying to tackle that would attract the elite engineering forces to the company. Because again, you're talking about something really big is going on with software. What are some of the big problems? >> Yeah, well, a couple of them that, you know, I'm pretty focused on for our team, and one is we said, you know, we said it's a software defined data center. Right? Going forward. It's the self driving data center. How do we bring so much telemetry? and automation that we truly are running the data center on customers behalf. And if I, you know, build on the Del Technologies World announcement of'em were cloud on Delhi emcee. You know, we're now managing their on premise data center from our cloud. You know what? If we can put more machine learning a I into the middle of that, it's not just that I wantto do it instead of them. I want to do it dramatically better than they ever could write. Using the greatest algorithms telemetry, learning, etcetera that the infrastructure becomes more reliable, right, it becomes higher performance. It becomes increasingly predicted right of its behavior and adjusting to those things. So the self driving data center's pretty high on the list for us. You know this idea then of a true multi cloud operational plane. We're customers. Just say, Here's there's my working. Would you figure out where to run it here? My policies. Here's the work will take care of it for me today. I was running it on this cloud the afternoon I brought it back on promise, because you it >> sounds easy, >> Cassidy. Right? Wow, If you could do that, its scale But then you say, boy, You know, if I move it around, where does the day to reside? Right, You know, have I met my policies and compliance requirements? So this a multi cloud operational plane is a >> big problem that you're attracting talent Is that distract complexity away and making it easy? >> Yeah, right, R, that's what we do. It's hard. I know. You know some >> of the cool things, you know, the are blockchain All right, you know, also breaking through reside. Describe blockchain. It's like the public private key encryption breakthroughs of forty years ago. But they're still very raw, right? Their performances crappy. You know, they don't scale very well. You have all sorts of issues associated with audit ability and repute, ability of those mechanisms. So those are some of the new problems and then also attacking entirely new new segments like NFI, right? Hey, we're going to build a five g network. That's not reliant on hard work, right? >> Well, when you're out of the quiet here, we're going to come to your office, will go deeper, dive on the business and some of the cool tech stuff, >> and we're just coming up on the M world in a couple of months. I think this will be the cubes tenth time there and any little teasers that you could give us about the world twenty nineteen. >> Well, we certainly hope that, you know, we're able to bring a lot of these club messages together right and have sort of, you know, connected all the dots. Att VM world This year's >> state When you heard it here on the Q first, some exciting announcements coming from BM, where in just a few months at being World twenty nineteen. Pak Gil Senior Seo Thank you so much for joining Jon and me at Radio twenty nineteen. As a pleasure. Always thank you so much. We want to thank you for watching for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Vienna, where Radio twenty nineteen and San Francisco. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering Dell Technologies World 2019. Brought to you by Dell Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for Dell Technologies World. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Dave, we've got Pat Gelsinger back on theCUBE. He stopped by yesterday, did a flyby after his keynote to kick off our intro section. He's back for the sit-down. >> (laughs) Welcome back. >> I can't get enough of you, Pat. >> CEO of VMware, Pat Gelsinger. >> Yeah, I love to photobomb you guys, so it was great. >> Anytime. I know you're super busy, business is going great. And you know, what a three years its been. I remember the keynote you gave at VMworld a few years ago. This was really on a time where, I would call it the seminal moment for you because you saw a vision, and we've talked privately and on theCUBE about, and you gave this speech of this is going to be the preferred future, and it was very visionary-oriented, but it ended up happening. That became the beginning of a run for VMware. And since then, you've been kind of chipping away and filling in all the tech pieces, the business model, and deals, with Amazon and now Azure and others. How are you feeling about it? What's the highlights? What's your perspective of where we are now? What's the notable accomplishments? >> Well you know, it's been just great. And you think about the run that we've been on where we, five years ago, we described a hybrid future. And you know, most people said, what are you, stupid? And you know, student body right to the public cloud. And now everybody is starting to understand the difficulty of replatforming, right? And says wow, this is really hard. I can spend millions and millions of dollars, in fact, one customer's estimate was that they were going to spend almost $1 billion replatforming all their applications to the cloud. And when they got them cloud-native, what do they have? The same apps. So imagine going to your board and saying I'm going to spend $1 billion just so I can be on the cloud, but give you no new business value. You've got to be kidding! And that's why this hybrid future, and as I like to joke, Andy, five years ago, Andy Jassy said if you're running your own data center, you're stupid. And Pat said if you're using Amazon, you're stupid. And now we're doing bro hugs on stage with each other. (laughter) >> And by the way, hybrid, you picked that trend that was right. Multi-cloud, though, came out of more a reality, less of an operating vision, 'cause hybrid cloud, you know, you saw the dots, connected those dots, but I think multi-cloud was much more of just a reality. When people started to realize that as I started doing stuff on premises, wow, I got native workloads on the cloud, and there are benefits for being in the cloud first for certain workloads. But then the multi-cloud thing comes up. >> And I think everybody has started to realize, and I really, as I would say, I think every CIO needs a three-cloud strategy. Making their private data centers into a proper operating private cloud. And some of this week's announcements, I'm sure we'll get back to those a little bit, to me are just a huge dimension. You know, VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, you know, a huge accelerant of making your private data center op like a private cloud, right, at scale. Second, you need a primary public cloud partner. And I think most people should pick a primary. Not one, a primary, and then a secondary cloud, right, you know, as their partners. And then you have your range of SAS offerings. And I think that needs to be the core, right, of every IT, CIO's strategy for the future. And our objective is to create an environment between what we're doing with VMware Cloud Foundation, and now VMware Cloud on Dimension. What we're doing with Amazon, our preferred partner for the public cloud offering. What we announced this week with Azure, right? Our 4000 other cloud partners, including, you know, very successful relationship with IBM. And saying, okay, that's your infrastructure. And the bulk of your workloads should run on a VMware environment that we can operate across that, with the same tools, the same interfaces, the same security, the same management tools, and then use the other cloud services as they bring you business value. You're a fan of Tensorflow? Go for it, baby. Right? You know, and use it in your app. You love function as a service with Lambda, go for it. But the bulk of your workload should lay in here and use these where they have business value. >> And to follow up on the three legs of the cloud stool, the CIO's legs, number three is for what? Is it for risk mitigation, exit strategies, or more specific best-of-breed, horses-for-courses type of workloads. >> Yes, yes, and yes. To some degree, really it's saying, nobody wants to say, I'm only in one. Right? Nobody wants to lock in for it. Also you know, clearly, hey, you know, these are technologies that break. You get more resilience that way, right? You want to be able to manage your cost environments. There's clearly this view of okay, you know, if I can do one, two, and three, I can do N. 'Cause most people are also going to end up picking, oh, I'm in Hong Kong. Okay, I need a Hong Kong cloud, because my data can only go there. You know, I'm in Malaysia, oh, they require all data to be there. 'Cause a practicality, if you're a big enterprise company, it's not just going to be three. You're going to need to be four, five, and six as well, for regional. And then you're going to acquire somebody, they're using a different partner. It really says, build an operational environment that works that way. Give myself business flexibility. I have application flexibility, and if I've done that, I really can move to the other environments that my business requires. >> I think one of the reasons why you guys have been so successful, if I go back five or six years, I remember you laying out the market, the market segmentation, you're obviously close to customers. You're a very clear thinker. You've obviously looked at the market for multi-cloud. How do you describe that, how do you look at the TAM, how big is it? >> Well you know, if you think about cloud today, right, we're closing in on $100 billion of the public cloud. You add SAS to it, you know, you got almost another $100 billion at that level. And you know, the overall data center market is probably on the order of, you know, $1 trillion-ish. >> Give or take. (laughs) >> Yeah, on that order. And then you know, you throw the operations costs inside of it, you're probably looking at something that's, you know, on the order of $2 trillion as well. So this is a big market, right? You know, part of the excitement that people are seeing in this cloud environment, is that they can just go faster. And as I described in the keynote today, we want to enable every one of our customers to stop looking down and look up, right? Spend less time looking down at the infrastructure. We're going to operationalize it, we're going to automate it for you, we're going to take care of it so that every one of your engineers can become software engineers building app and business value. >> I want to ask you on that point, because one of the things, I was talkin' last night, the analyst said at the briefing or the reception was, having a debate with one of the strategists in Dell, and I'm like, look it, outcomes are great at the top of the stack. Looking up, you want outcomes. But during the OSI stack days, no one cared about outcomes. It was either token ring or Ethernet. Speed won, so certain things have to be speed-driven, world-class, and keep getting better. And so that's what we're seeing as an infrastructure requirement. Horizontal scalability, operational scale. So that's a speeds and feeds game. So the outcome there is faster (laughs), and simpler. Up the stack, data becomes a big part of that. That, more, is where we see outcome. Do you see it that way, Pat? Because you know, again, infrastructure is often, that's how they said it on stage. We want to have whole new-paved, new infrastructure for this generation, essentially a refresh of infrastructure. Okay. Well, what does it look like? It's got to be fast, got to be flexible, software-defined. Your thoughts? >> So you know, clearly, I mean, what we're trying to do is we build this common infrastructure layer. And build an environment that allows you to be fast, but also allows you to be in control and cost-effective. Because if you would say, oh, I just want to be fast, ah, that doesn't work, right? We still have limited budgets, and you know, people, someday there's a CFO day of reckoning. But you also have to realize, part of the hybrid cloud laws that I described this morning, you know, one of those is the laws of physics, right? Hey, my factory automation for robotics needs to be 40 milliseconds, period. And if I round-trip to the cloud at 150 milliseconds, guess what? (laughs) >> Latency. >> Right. You know, my image recognition for being able to detect my autonomous vehicle is less than 50 milliseconds. I can't round-trip to the cloud. It has to be fast, right, but we also need to be able to push more of this data, more of the inference of my machine learning and AI closer to the edge. That's why, you know, you heard Michael talk about, and Jeff talk about this explosion of data. Most of that data will be at the edge. Why? Because every camera, you know, every sensor will be developing it, and I'm not going to round-trip it to the cloud because of economics. I can't afford to take all that data to the cloud. It's not just the latency. >> Latency matters. >> Yeah. And so for that, so I can't take it to the cloud, I got to be able to compute locally. I got to be able to apply the inference of my AI models locally, but you know, I also then need to scale aspects of cloud as well. My third law, of course, was regulation, where you know, guess what? I was just with a major customer in Latin America, and they said they are repatriating 100% of their data and applications out of the public cloud, 'cause the new president, right, is assisting on data only in his country for all of their nationalized resources and assets. >> So that's driving the change. This brings up the multi-cloud kind of thing earlier. You guys got to play in all the ponds out there, in the industry. But let's talk about on-stage here at Dell Technologies World. You were on-stage with Michael Dell and Satya Nadella, and I was lookin' up there. I'm like, man, the generational knowledge of the three people on-stage, the history. >> (laughs) I think that just means I'm getting old. (laughs) >> Well I mean, you've seen it all. I mean, from Intel, to EMC, to VMware. Dave and I, Dave's a historian of tech, as he'll self-claims, but I'm up there, I was pretty blown away. You guys are leading the industry. What kind of moment was that for you, because now you've got Microsoft doing a deal with VMware. Who would've thought that would happen? >> Well, maybe two different aspects to it. You know, one is, I've known Satya for over 25 years. You know, he was sort of going through the Microsoft ranks, Windows NT, SQL, et cetera. (laughter) You know, at the same time I was. So we got to know each other. Almost 25 years since our first interactions. When Michael Dell first came to Intel to meet Andy Grove to get microprocessors so he could start his business, I was there. So I mean, these relationships are decades old. So in that view, it's sort of like, hey Satya, how's the wife, you know. (laughter) Hey Michael, how's Susan doing? Really, it-- >> But you haven't even gone anywhere, you're still in the industry. (laughs) >> Yeah. But then to be able, the announcement was really pretty special in the sense that I call it 20 years in the making. You know, not a year or two, 20 years in the making, 'cause VMware and Microsoft has essentially been at odds with each other for two decades. You know, at that level. And to be able to be on-stage and saying, that's right, we're cooperating on cloud, we're cooperating on client, and we're cooperating on futures, okay, that's a pretty big statement as well. And I think customers respond very positively to that. And you know, I'm-- >> It's been a bold move, and you also made a bold move with the cloud, too, Pat. I got to say, that was another good call. Partnering with Andy Jassy. Again, once, both idiots, I guess, calling each other clever, you know. (laughs) Hey, public cloud, at odds, partner. Boom. >> And I really think this idea, moving headwinds to tailwinds. And you know, the Amazon partnership with Andy, and as we say, it's our preferred cloud partner, VMware Cloud, our native US hub, VMware-offered service. You know, super committed to it. We're closing in on 2000 customers on that now. >> Clarify the Amazon relation. I saw some press articles that kind of missed, skewed a little bit. They kind of made it sound like the Azure deal was similar to the Amazon deal. So just explain the difference between the VMware deal with AWS and Andy Jassy, that relationship, and the other cloud ones. Take a minute to explain that. >> Yeah, thank you. And what we're doing with Amazon is VMware is offering a cloud service that I operate for customers, that runs on Amazon. And that is a VMware-delivered service. They're our preferred partner. We're not bashful about that, that if we have the choice, that's the one to go to. It's going to be best. But what we've done now with Azure is we've made the VMware Cloud Foundation, the same underlying components, available with CloudSimple and Virtustream, they're partners, to have a VMware Cloud Foundation offering delivered by Microsoft as a first-party service. So VMware Cloud, VMware is delivering it. In the Azure for VMware services, that's being delivered and supported by Microsoft. >> And that's the same deal you did with IBM. >> It's very, the same-- >> Google and other ones. >> Yeah, the same as we've done with our 4000 other cloud partners, right? And obviously, Virtustream and CloudSimple are part of that 4000, and they're making the VMware Cloud Foundation available to Azure customers now. >> And what's the benefits to VMware's customers for those deals? >> Well, imagine that you're somebody in, Walmart was quoted in the press release, as an example. Walmart's a big VMware customer. Walmart is also a big Azure customer. So their ability to say, oh, I can have a hybrid environment makes a lot of sense for that kind of customer. So we really do see it as saying, you know-- >> Customer-driven, basically. >> Absolutely. And people said, which are you going to sell to us? Well in most cases, customers have already decided who their major cloud partners our. We're saying that VMware offering, even though we're first and best with Amazon, we're saying as they make their cloud choices, we'll have a valid VMware Cloud Foundation offering available. >> And best, I want to understand best. Best is, in part, anyway, because of the engineering you guys have done. When we interviewed Andy Jassy in November at re:Invent, he said you can't have a lot of these types of partnerships. And it's very deep integration. Is that why it's best? And what makes it best? >> Yeah, I call it first and best for two reasons. One is because we are engineering, we are co-engineering, the bits first get done on VMware Cloud, and then we make 'em available to the other partners. That's where we're doing the core engineering, the innovation. Andy has hundreds of engineers working on this. I have hundreds of engineers working on it. So it's first and best from an engineering sense. And, given it's my service and my offering, we're selling it aggressively in the marketplace, positioning it as part of the broader set of solutions and leveraging that, like you saw this week with the Dell EMC offering, VMware Cloud on Dell EMC. It's leveraging all that first and best work to now bring it on-premise as well. So it really is both the engineering as as a go-to-market. >> I'm going to ask some CEO questions. (laughs) So Tom Sweet has said they're happy to have the Class V transaction behind them. I'm sure you're glad, too. Thank you. That was very generous of you. >> (laughs) >> You've been incredibly good at acquisitions. I mean, obviously Nicira, Heptio, CloudHealth, AirWatch, I mean, on and on. >> VeloCloud. >> VeloCloud. I mean, most acquisitions, frankly, don't live up to their objectives. I think that's not the case for VMware. So now you're, good news is you draw off a lot of cash, so you're building up that pot again. How do you see, going forward, use of that cash? R and D, M and A, maybe you could make some comments there to the extent you can? >> Yeah, and you know, we said the primary ways we use cash, stock buybacks and M and A. And that continues. We did the special one-time dividend, which helped Dell go public. Everybody's happy. The market's responded super positively on both the Dell side. They're up, what, 40% since they go public. VMware up almost 50% this year. Just tremendous. >> Tremendous, $80 billion value now, awesome. >> Yeah, just tremendous. And, right then, we said going forward, it's business as usual for us. We're going to continue to do stock buybacks. We're going to continue to do M and A's. As you've said, we're good at this acquisitions stuff. And part of that is, I call it, imagine you're a hot startup company. And you say, do I want to be part of VMware? And we try to answer these questions. Do we have vision alignment? >> (laughs) >> Second is, can we accelerate your vision? Because most startups, you know, I mean, you talk about unicorns and so on like that. But what really motivates them is their vision. And if they believe their vision is going to be accelerated as part of VMware, so they're on this and we're going to turn 'em to that, aw man, they get excited. Do we have a cultural fit? I mean, with every CEO of our acquisitions, and HR does, we really, are they going to fit our team? Because you know, cultural issues, you can't butt your heads day and night. Life's too short. >> Certainly VMware, you guys are (laughs) that culture's very hardcore. Work hard, play hard. (laughter) >> Yeah, and you know, it has to be this deep drive for technical innovation, right? The technical due diligence that we do with our startups. Right? It's sort of like, you know, this is like a PhD exam for these, I mean, they really got to know their stuff. >> Yeah, so people don't fit in the culture at VMware, and there-- >> And we've said no to a number of potential acquisitions over cultural issues as well, if they're just not going to fit. And hey, we're not going to be perfect, but the fact that we can bring these companies in, accelerate their vision, give 'em a culture that they're excited about. You know, we have maybe 90-ish% success rate. The industry average is below 50% >> Yeah, fantastic track record. I mean-- >> And that just gives us the ability to do organic and inorganic innovation, which to me is like, a potent recipe. >> And you got the radio conference coming up. What will your talk, theCUBE will be there. Pat, you've created great shareholder value. You turned those headwinds into tailwinds, and we were watchin' the whole time. It's been great to watch. And what's next? You have your VMware tattoo still on from VMworld? (laughter) Like you have a jail tattoo? >> No, I'll tell you >> Cute tattoo. >> a little inside, I'll tell you a little inside story. My wife, you know, after the VMworld keynote with the tattoo on, we were leavin' on vacation two weeks later. And all she said to me after the keynote was what's that tattoo thing, it better be gone by the time we leave for vacation. (laughter) It's like, there was no, honey, that was a great keynote today, it's like, that better be gone! (laughs) >> Nothin's better than watchin' that video and that CUBE sticker we had on your hand. Pat, great to see you, as always. Great commentary, great analysis. Congratulations on all the success with VMware. Again, the transformation's just getting started. We're seeing a lot more good things for you guys as well. >> Yeah, and you know, this has been a great week in some ways. I sort of joked this morning on-stage that, it almost felt like VMworld. We talked about VMware technologies and that Dell partnership accelerating so well. >> It's not AMCWorld, it's DellWorld now, it's a whole new vibe. >> (laughs) And you know, with that, you know, I just really believe in the superpowers that I talk about, we're just getting started. So we're going to be doing this a long time together. >> What's on your plate in front of you now? You got VMworld coming up in a few months. Priorities, objectives, what's on your plate? >> Well, I have to leave some of the secrets for what we're cookin' up for VMworld this year. But some of these steps clearly, in the developer container space, super important for us to really make some progress there. Obviously, we'll have some incremental cloud announcements as well. >> ContainerWare rhymes with VMware. (laughs) >> Yes, that's very good! We have an advertisement on that coming out, so a new ad. But it really is, I think, that topic area's one that, how can we really solve that for customers that really can deploy at scale containerized environments for an enterprise workload. So, excited about that area. And you know, maybe just a few deliverables from what we announced this week. >> Alright, take your CEO of VMware hat off, put your CUBE analyst hat on. What's the most important story here at Dell Technologies World, if you were a commentator? You can't say VMware 'cause that's biased, but you got to be objective. You can say VMware if an objective. What's the most important storyline here as a backdrop for Dell Technology Worlds, what's the real net net to customers? >> Well you know, I think, and I'll say, as exciting as the Microsoft announcements were, I think the most important thing was VMware Cloud on Dell EMC, on-prem. Because to me, you know, the fact, I go to CIOs, and I've done this probably five times since the keynote finished on Monday. And I say, how many of you have fully updated your hardware, your firmware, your operating systems, your networking stack, your compute stack, your management on the latest releases, all of them patched, upgraded appropriately for your environment? >> And they say, their eyes roll. (laughs) >> And the answer is none. Not some, none. I have customers that are askin' me to extend support for vSphere 4.5. It's like, what, that's been EOL'ed for a year and a half, what are you talking about, right?! But the reality is that most people go to the cloud, public cloud, not because it's more cost-effective or because it's better, it's because it's easier. So what we've really said is we can make easy in the private cloud and truly deliver that hybrid cloud experience. And I think the customers really experience the TCO benefits, the acceleration, the reductions in their operational environments, the personnel associated with it, the security benefits of being always patched, upgraded the most release. You know, now you're talkin' about attacking that other $1 trillion of operational costs that they're bearing in the personnel and so on. To me, that is like, so powerful if we really get that engine going. >> And the simplicity that comes out of that, is just-- >> You know, and again, the demo that we showed. That was the VMware Cloud on AWS being able to demonstrate, now, a complete picture into the on-premise environment. That's powerful. >> Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMware. I know he's got to go. Thanks for your generous time, I know you're really busy. Again, Pat Gelsinger. >> Love you guys, thank you. >> Thanks, Pat. >> Love you too. Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMware, creating a lot of shareholder values, got a lot of tailwinds at their back. VMworld's coming up, theCUBE, of course, will be there with two sets. As usual, theCUBE cannons, two sets here, firing cannonballs of content here at Dell Technology World. I'm Jeff Furrier with Dave Vellante, stay with us for more after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2018, brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back, this is theCUBE's live coverage here at VMworld 2018 in Las Vegas, I'm John Furrier, your host, with Dave Vellante my co-host, our next guest, CUBE alumni, special guest, Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMWare, always comes on every year to share, and talk about the keynote, talk about the news, all the great stuff. VMWare, great, per it's financial performance, great product portfolio, great R&D, pumping on all cylinders, congratulations, welcome to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you. Always great to see you guys, thanks John, thanks Dave, y'know. >> Y'know, it's fun, this is our ninth year doing VMWorld, you've been as the president of EMC and six years ago CEO of VMWare. We've been there, we've been following your journey. >> Hey, y'know, we've been on this path together, so it's been good. >> And, y'know, we've talked candidly around what was going on with Cloud at the time, your vision, getting sorted in. You made some real quick, decisive, decisions on Cloud, okay, Andy Jassy comes on stage, you're personally involved with Andy on the Amazon announcement, which is, I think people don't know how big that's going to be. But VMware and Amazon are seriously deep in a partnership. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> This is a big deal, this feels like a little wind-tell kind of easy, synergies across the board. (Pat laughs) >> Well, you know, in some ways, we'll say number one in public coming together with number one in private, that's a big deal. Yesterday's announcement of RDS on premise to me, sort of finishes the strategic picture that we were trying to paint, where it really is a hybrid world. Where we're taking workloads, and giving people the access to this phenomenal, rapidly-growing public Cloud, but we're also demonstrating that we can seamlessly connect it to the private Cloud and now we're bringing services back from the public Cloud onto the private and your own data centers. And that is so profound because now customers can say, Oh I like the RDS API's, I like the RDS management model. I can now put the data wherever I need it for my business purposes. That hybrid, bi-directional highway is something we're uniquely building with Amazon. And, hey, we're obviously working with other Cloud providers, but they are our preferred partner and we're pretty thrilled. >> Now we'll be talking about last year and what entailing that was. The clarity that allowed customers now to say, okay now I get the Cloud strategy, 'cause it wasn't clear before and boom, double down. >> Yeah, it's just been absolutely great. Customers get it now, and obviously seeing Andy here again this year, you've got a number of customers sort of dipping their toes in the water, you know. Now it's sort of like, okay, I'm ready to go. When we laid the one and a half year road map of availability zones, everybody sort of looking at that. I had a couple of customers saying, hey, you know I would really like that in Q1 rather than Q2. It sort of like okay, let's just sign the deal, we'll figure it out. >> Gov Cloud, we saw that in June. >> Yeah, in the public sector. >> Talk about Andy, because we got to know Andy over the years as well. A great executive, both you guys are great leaders of your team, both great managers. You're kind of both no-nonsense kind of executives, you get stuff done. If this block is in the way, you kind of remove them, you do the right thing. Andy's committed, he's committed to this, you're committed, this in for the, you're in it to win it, that kind of loyalty plus he's also customer-driven, heavily Amazon. You guys are, too, this deal is not just Amazon trying to do hybrid, it's customers. Can you share some inside baseball around the kind of customer demand around Cloud on premise with VM, with specifically Amazon website. This is new for Amazon, they've never done this. >> Yeah. >> They've never done this kind of of deal. >> It really is unique in that way, and because it was unique we went into it kind of trepidously, How's this going to work?" We committed ourselves, we do quarterly business reviews with Andy and I. You know, hey a lot of little action items, they get finished the week before the Andy-Pat meeting. (laughs) >> You know, there we are, every quarter, coming together and really building the teamwork down the teams, right, as well, down the organizations into the field, and just finding all sorts of you know. We're super excited about the RDS announcement, but hey, we have a pipeline of projects behind that. >> We're reporting that customers want this. >> Oh, Absolutely. >> This is a customer, not a kind of like you guys want to take over the Cloud, this is a customer-driven thing. >> Absolutely, Amazon don't do anything, I mean nothing, unless they believe there is meaningful customer demand. They are extraordinarily customer-focused in that respect, you know I think there's something we can all learn from their myopic focus on that aspect. They're engaging with customers, building things that customers like and the response obviously from the RDS announcement was really quite overwhelming. >> So, we've been asking people all week, and I'll ask for your commentary. The conventional wisdom on that deal is it was a one-way trip to the Hotel Cloud-ifornia and it's become boon for the data center. Why the misconceptions, why are you confident that it continues to be a boon for both companies? >> Yeah, hey, and we got to go prove it. At the end of the day, we have to go prove it. The analysts were sort of viewing it, there's this big sucking sound in the public Cloud where everything congregates. Point one, and three years ago, that was the prevailing wisdom, right, that that was going to be the case. Now, everybody, like I had the big CIO who basically said, hey, I've got 200 apps, I tried to move them to the public Cloud, I got two done. I can build new things there, but this moving was really hard until we had the VMC service. So this ability to move things to the Cloud and from the Cloud, I call it the three laws. The laws of physics, the laws of economics, and the laws of the land. The laws of physics, hey if I need 500 millisecond round-trip through the Cloud and the robotic arm needs a decision in 200 milliseconds, eh, you know, physics. Economics, I'm not going send every surveillance picture of the cat to the Cloud, bandwidth still costs, right? Then laws of the land, right, where people say, governance issues, GDPR, other things. Because of that, we see this hybrid world, in particularly as Edge and IOT becomes more prominent we fully expect that there's going to be more of that, not less. As I showed in my keynote last year, this pendulum of centralization and decentralization has been swinging through the industry for 40 years. And we don't see that stopping and Edge will be a force of more data, and computers pushing to the Edge, and that's obviously part of our keynote, as well. >> I wanted to get in a comment about how you talk about bridging technology gaps, or >> Yeah. >> Or segments with that VMware. Before I want to just point out that you're wearing a VMware tattoo for the folks who can see it. Pat is making all his employees have a VMware tattoo. (laughs) Yeah we got a tattoo machine, yeah, we're in Vegas, so. >> Ought to order some more CUBE stickers. What happens in Vegas stays on your arm, remember that. (laughing) You ought to keep the tattoos up, it's funny and clever. Let's get back to the keynote. You said a couple things I want to get your reaction to. One, the bridging of technology successfully has been a transformational gift that VMWare has had with good technologists and good engineers. So I want you to talk about that. Also, you had a quote around the old adage of the network is the computer, that's old, the new adage is the application is a network, I think is what you said. >> Precisely. >> Tell about this bridging and why that quote, that was a really good quote, I want to expand on that. >> Clearly, we think about the history of VMware and it started with this idea of HP, Dell, IBM, etcetera and all of a sudden it became VMWare with different hardware underneath it. We bridged across those hardware islands. Those hardware islands, when they started, weren't bad. Extraordinary innovation but all of sudden customers want to start using them together and VMware bridged that gap. We talked about the device guy, and BYOD, and the iPhone showing up and all of a sudden IT wasn't ready to manage it, but customers wanted it. So we see Windows devices, Macs, and IOS, and Google, and Chromes and so on. How do you bridge it, VMware is doing that. We saw many of the networks, boy, you know what my protocols are about. Okay, Again, we're bridging across that, and that's clearly where NSX is uniquely playing. So this idea of bridging across these elements, right, is deep in our heritage. Right, we do it in an ecosystem-friendly hardware independent now, Cloud-independent way, right. Where we're now saying in the Cloud health acquisition, we're going to bridge across these worlds and make them easier for our customers to consume them, wherever they may be. These are powerful innovations, capabilities that are emerging, but customers say, oh you know, where is that workload running? Increasingly, in the future, I'm going to say, Oh VMware is running it for me, and not actually say, oh where did you run that VMWare? Because we are going to meet their policies, we're going to meet their business needs. >> And that bridges what, the Cloud? The current bridge is what, the Cloud, or ? >> Oh yeah, absolutely. Right, but the Cloud will now be my private data centers as well as different public resources. I think one of the next big challenges that we'll have to lean into more aggressively is the data challenge. Hmmm, where's my data? In a Cloud world, in a SaaS world, I want to be able to use my data for different purposes, I don't want to necessarily locked in a particular SaaS application when I built up an S3 bucket. Maybe I want to run some of my private analytics on that. Oh, the laws changed and I now need to bring that back on premise, and you know... >> Is it going to cost anything? Yeah, and you know, bridging across those worlds. It's both an application statement, a networking statement, and a data center. >> So application is a network? >> Yes. >> I think if it were a network, not the network. >> Yes. >> What do you mean by that? >> I gave you an example, a heads-up display in a construction hat, as you're wearing a hard hat. This AR-VR application running in my display for my hardhat and I'm a factory worker now, right, I'm getting cool new x-ray vision into the machine of what's going on. I'm able to look through walls at what's going on. Wow, that's pretty cool, and I'm getting real-time safety information of what's going... oh, that's incredible. Now think about the application behind that. I'm accessing 30 year old building plan databases, I'm accessing systems of record, system designs that are coming from my equipment suppliers and cool new container-ized AR-VR applications. That's my application, when I think about it in that environment. And what a complex network of different services, legacy applications, modern, new, microservice, >> Data sources, those kind of things. >> All of those things are brought together into my application, and in that sense, the application is a network of these different services, data sources, et cetera. We believe in that, bridging across silos isn't important, its essential to do that because, as you say, security models across that. When that application isn't performing like I expect it to, how do I go, even debug it? Because now, a flag went off, saying the hardhat AR application is not performing well and I have upsets. You know, manufacturing people on the floor not being able to get real-time data: I got to go debug that. You know, what's not working right? It's this network that needs to be able to be analyzed, any metrics across all of those. I need security models, you know, the ability to essentially load-balance across a complex network of services. That's the world we're headed to and we think we have some pretty good opportunities to help customers get there. >> So, Pat, explain how technically does the platform of VMWare change and evolve to meet those needs? Is it sort of embracing those new services or is it rewriting at the core, can you explain that? >> Yeah, it's some of both, I'll give two examples of that: one is that we're embracing the Kubernetes layer. Right? That's what you heard us say. I'm going to make Kubernetes a new dial-tone for the VMWare layer. I didn't create Kubernetes, it's part of open-source community, but I tell you what, we are going to help evolve it, standardize it, make it part of that infrastructure. So that Kubernetes dial-tone, right, (laughs) Hopefully, everybody is old enough to understand what that means, right? You know, boom, it is always there and we're going to make sure it's always there. So I'll say in some cases we're embracing new industry innovations and that one happens to be CNCF, the Cloud  Native Computing Foundation in that community, so we're participating, we're contributing. In other cases, we got to go rewrite things. You know, NXS, the current version of NXS was primarily bound to V-sphere and customers have increasingly said, oh I need to make NXS much bigger then we ever conceived for the first NXS, and I need it to work on all these other environments, including non-V sphere. So that's why we did what we called NXS-T, which is a fundamental re-architecture of NXS. There's probably three or four lines of code that we re-used, but that's about it. (laughing) I mean it is a major architectural redo because now we're saying I need to scale this, essentially, across the planet. I need it to work in VMWare and non-VMWare environments. I need it to be native in multiple public Clouds and I need to stretch it into the container level. That was a big re-architecture project that we undertook. In some cases it will be both, and like in Cloud health, it will be things inorganically go acquire and then figure out how to meld them into the infrastructure that we build and offer. >> So, do you, as the CEO and a technologist, you have a very interesting organizational ownership, governing structure. Do you ever feel constrained writing an 11 billion dollar dividend, do you ever feel constrained in terms of your ability to fund the R&D necessary to do some of those things? >> No. >> Grayson said the same thing off camera, I'm asking you on-camera. >> Generally, no. Am I constrained in how much R&D I can do? Well, hey, I've got a budget, we build a P&L, we communicate it to the street and every day possible, I'm pushing to grow the business faster so I can shove more dollars into one of two places. More dollars into R&D or more dollars into sales and customer facing. If Robin Matlock is here, I keep giving her the table scraps at the end of those things. Build products that are innovative, radical, and break through. Sell products and support our customers using them. That's the two things we're ... >> That's the golden rule. >> And, by the way, you made some M&A, you've got Cloud health, which is a good thing. That was a vertical focus in health care. >> Yeah, and not just healthcare. Cloud Health is a multi-Cloud management platform. They've built their initial focus primarily in cost management of multiple Clouds, but, you know, we're going to build that platform out for every aspect of compliance management, performance management, et cetera. >> Multi-Cloud play, Boston-based. >> So, final question for you: as you look at NXS, it's becoming kind of that feels like a TCPIP moment. Okay, we thought you Andy gotcha to sign a baptism. He was very complimentary of NXS. I asked him what TCPIP did to connecting, inter-networking, creating, and boom, the OSA model stopped at TCPNIP, that created a lot of opportunities and, welp, that's where we are today. Is there a disruptive enable as powerful as TCPIP that you see coming, and is that an NXS mindset? What's your vision on this, because this is what the Cloud needed, it needs interoperability, it needs to go to a level to create goodness in the ecosystem, wealth creation for entrepreneurs. This is the new era, where is that disruptive enabler? >> Well, a couple of comments, and one is: if Andy says it, it's right. (laughs) >> Yeah. >> Yeah, you remember, this is the one Rembrandt of systems design for the last 30 years. Andy is that profound in his contributions to the industry. In terms of technical leadership, visionary leadership, he's very high on my list of seminal figures of Silicone Valley. At the systems level, it's just hard to get better than Andy, so you know, he honored you by coming on theCUBE. He honored us by being here at VMworld. >> He is complimentary of NXS in his position in the marketplace as a leader, he's very candid about that. >> Now with NXS we really are, I think, in this moment where you're saying okay, the old model of networking simply doesn't work. It must all be done from a software level. This isn't just like putting a few APIs on top of my hardware and saying it's now software-based, it is conceiving a globally-distributed control plane that allows you to essentially span multiple Clouds, multiple data centers, multiple services anywhere on the planet, totally consumable for services that run on top of it, transforming every aspect of a layer four through seven service, low balancing, fire wall it, all of those, routing, all of those need to be reconceived in a totally distributive fashion and underneath saying, we support a very, very broad range of different hardware. The hardware can never constrain what you do at that SDN ladder, and that's the core of our virtual Cloud network strategy. Obviously, Velocloud, hot product. ST WAN, branch transformation, pushing that edge of the network out in a fully Cloud-based way, very excited about that capability. >> We know you're probably under a lot of time pressures so we're going to let you go. Five seconds, summarize VMWorld 2018, what's this about, what's the vibe here in five seconds, go. >> Five seconds? >> Or 15, 20, 30, whatever you need, go. (laughs) Alright, take 10. >> It is, the seminal moment where the industry is seeing the value of the multi-Cloud era. Right, and now we're giving them the tools to embrace it. >> And two leaders have, on stage, Andy Jassy C of A WS, Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMWare, are talking about multi-Cloud validation from customers and strong technology teams in business. Congratulations on your success, okay. >> Thank you. (laughing) >> Pat Gelsinger, we pay you for theCUBE sticker, we get royalties on that. Thank you so much, Pat Gelsinger inside theCUBE, CEO of VM here, breaking it down, great vibe here, VMworld 2018. Stay tuned after this short break, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante we'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. This is theCUBE's coverage of VMworld 2018 here in Las Vegas. I'm Stu Miniman joined by my two guest hosts that have spent a bunch of time with us this week. John Mark Troyer and Justin Warren. Thank you, gentlemen for joining us for the wrap. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thanks for having us. >> We get to have a lot of fun. We get to hang out with community people, geek out on a lot of stuff. This is also a really good checkpoint for a lot of the IT industry. VMware, 800-pound gorilla in the data center. I put out one tweet that was like the 800-pound gorilla in the data center or the 800-pound gorilla in the cloud. The partnerships matured quite a bit, in my mind, for the last year. That was one of the big things that I've seen. RDS on-premises is definitely the thing that sticks out to me the most. John, let's start with you as to, checkpoint from last year. What impressed you? What are they making progress with? Let's start there. >> I think the RDS announcement was maybe even undersold here. We'll see in the coming months what actually happens and if everything works the way it's supposed to work. I think a lot of people who are putting chips down on various outcomes and scenarios in cloud world did not cover that one space in the roulette wheel. Cause that's actually pretty interesting. Stu, I kind of see this as a year of promises kept. Some promises that were made in years past are starting to come out. This multi-cloud world seems more real. VMware's relationships with various clouds and the hints that were thrown are there's more to come. It seems real. The cloud starting to come back on-prem. Both EBS on-prem and now Project Dimension with VMware being a service provider. I've talked to a number of vendors and you and I, Stu. Some are here on theCUBE. People starting to do more managed services from the cloud back into your data center. I see the multi-cloud world working and then this kind of blurring of on-prem and cloud even more. That's kind of what I'm seeing. >> Yeah, I've got to agree. It's that idea that cloud is a state of mind. It's not a location. >> We say it's an operating model at it's core, right? >> Right, yeah, and I think we're seeing a lot of those ideas come to fruition now that you can operate like a cloud on-site. It's how you run things, it's not where exactly you put it. With the multi-cloud world, like you said, we can have, some of it can be on-site, some of it can be in one cloud, another cloud, lots of different clouds. Some of it will be at the edge. We're seeing a lot of growth in edge computing, which is essentially just another way of doing on-site. Being able to use the same tools, and that, for me, is the idea around the RDS announcement. It's the same thing that you're used to in public cloud. Now I can do that on-site. We're seeing a real cross-pollination. You can take VMware and run that in cloud. You can take things from the cloud and now run it back on site. It's pretty exciting. >> This is awesome. We have an easy button. Customers just push a button. Any data, anywhere, moves all over the place. Laws of physics, throw them out. Come on, guys. I need some critical analysis here. The trope that I would have, always, when I became an analyst an eight years ago was like well, if it wasn't for management and security we would have this all sorted out. The multi-cloud world is made progress, but when I still look at it. RDS, super exciting. The thing that's most exciting about it? That's on-premises, it's doesn't have connection to Amazon, but I'm doing cool things with the exact same kind of bits there so I can do it here or there. Doesn't mean, necessarily here and there, or spread between there, because petabytes of data don't just float across the ether. We're still using things like the AWS Snowballs when we have to move a lot of data. Yes, it's matured, but when I look at the management of multi-cloud and how simple, there was a great comment from a company that's been around for a couple of decades on theCUBE and he said look, the new companies all say we're going to make this super easy. It's like well, because you don't have the trusted brand to set beside, simple would be nice but cloud isn't simple. Multi-cloud sure isn't simple. >> There was, probably, a surfeit of single panes of glass here at the show. Any app, any cloud, any whatever. Single pane of glass. We'll blueprint it, we'll manage it, we'll do it. That does seem like that probably isn't that real world. >> Multiple single panes of glass. >> Please, Justin, give me a touchpoint. When you talk to an administrator, how do they spell single pane of glass? >> Oh yes, P-A-I-N, yes, a single glass of pain. That's generally what it is. I think that the manageability and the operational side of things, that is where there's a lot more development required. Cloud is, yes it's a state of mind. It's a very different way of operating and a lot of the tools, particularly in the VMware community, a lot of what people are used to here is very much point and click. It's not really as automated as it would be in, say, developer land. I spend a lot of time with developers and a lot of what they're used to is all programmatic, it's driven from the API. We're seeing movement with things like PowerShell and VMware administrators are getting more comfortable with the idea of scripting and so on. But they're not programmers. They still need GUI tools. They still need things that are able to do point and click. Some things are better in that environment. I think we still have a long way to go with things around automation. The other thing that still has a long way to go, I think, is security. Security particularly around the networking of how you inter-connect with all of these things and do so securely at scale. There is a lot of invasion and work that's required to actually make that happen. >> Absolutely. John, do you have some comment there? >> I was going to say I think you're right. Especially on all those points. The community booth back here behind us this year had a VMware code section, which was jam-packed the whole time. For the first time. VMware's been trying to speak to developers for 10 years and not quite connecting. Now, these weren't developers back there, these were admins, and they're not going to ever be programmers, but they're going to start to learn more programmatic paradigms, automation, things like that. It was super popular this year. >> Luckily, we don't actually need programmers anymore, John, cause it's coding, which means you're really just coping, pasting, and modifying things and everything. Heck, I've even interviewed marketing people that are like oh, server-less, I can build with that stuff. Super easy. I don't think we need everybody to learn to even code, as it were. We bridged that gap. It's matured, it's become easier. They pulled over some of the, it was the EMC code team. It's half that team over there. They had some good gamification. >> Stu, I am an optimist and I think the glass is half full or 40% full at least. We've done some CUBE stuff, theCUBE's been all over the world here this spring, all through 2018. I've done a couple shows with you. The difference that I saw this year was that the use cases were real and the time to value was real. People are implementing cloud projects, multi-cloud projects, and they're getting to a good milestone within weeks or months. Admittedly, these are big, multi-national companies, so it's really at the top level where they have the army of people to do it, but sometimes these projects were very small and they were real. They weren't just marketing hokum up on stage. Of course, they're not the full enterprise in a couple of weeks, but that's the difference this year, I see, Stu. I'm 40% full. >> Absolutely, I'd say look. Energy level was up. Two years ago it kind of hit a nadir. It was doom and gloom. We were all over at the eye candy bar saluting the great run that VMware had and wondering who the next CEO was been. Now, energy level's back up. Investment in the ecosystem, oh my gosh. I don't think I've seen this many parties ever at a VMworld. We got to talk about something other than cloud so give me your non-cloud takeaways from the show. Areas that people should learn more about, things you saw in the ecosystem or from VMware or the community. >> I think that's one of the things I've noticed here at the show. Wandering around the show floor, unlike some of the other shows where it's we will have a storage show or we'll have a backup show. There's a lot more balance this year. There seems to be a good mix of some of everything. I think that it shows that in order to run a successful IT shop, you actually need to have a balance of, you need some backup, you need some data recovery, you need to have some software, you need some monitoring, you need to have security options. Go and have a look at all of the different vendors that are at a show like this to be able to make sure you have a portfolio approach to how you run things. >> Totally. I remember there were a couple of years, four or five years ago, it was like oh, it's VM storage world. >> Yeah. >> OK, yeah. John? >> There is a lot of storage here, but the storage is all connected to the cloud now. I think if you look at some of the big booths and some of the start-ups who have gotten funding recently. Large rounds. Cohesity, Datrium, Rubrik, folks like that, they're delivering on promises made in earlier years. Not particularly like oh wow, I never thought of, but this was the vision that we laid out and now we're delivering it this year. Big rounds of funding, big customer movement, connection to the cloud and solid, interesting DR as a service and data, as opposed to storage, ideas. I thought that was one of the more interesting aisles this year over there in the booths. >> To riff on what you said about developers and the bridge to the code idea, we see Puppet is here at the show, HashiCorp is here for the first time. >> Docker's there, of course. >> Docker's here. >> C & CF had a booth. >> Yep, C & CF had a booth. These are people that you wouldn't have expected to see at a VMware show in years past. >> One thing that struck me is companies with a mission for good. Pat Gelsinger kind of sets the bar. Talked about it in his keynote. Do better, do good, sets that example. He climbed Mt. Kilimanjaro for charity earlier this year. They had Malala up on stage with Sanjay Poonen. I did a couple of interviews here which were inspiring. Mission-driven companies and great to see the infrastructure in software companies being like hey, we're enabling and helping it. That was one to me. Takeaways from the community? Other things as we get to our wrap? >> I do wonder about that point. Just to add a little, slightly critical note on that. I think that there has been a bit of a tech lash, a bit of a backlash against tech companies. I wonder whether, I would like to see more from tech companies to show that this is real. That that social conscience is a real thing and it isn't just a bit of marketing that they've spray painted on to the front of the company. The fact that we had Malala here giving a keynote indicates that there is a commitment to it. I would want to see that carry through for the next couple of years, at least, to show that that sort of thing is real. And certainly, from the rest of the ecosystem, I expect that we're going to see a lot more. >> Diversity in the community, absolutely. I do realize we have three white guys of a certain age sitting here. We try to add diversity. I had my first European host on the program. Lisa's been on a lot this week. We're building out our bench, we're looking to add diversity. John, yeah, the community. >> Community, again, yeah, community was good this year. A lot of old faces have stayed around, which is really interesting but also people have left and come back. You saw people who have gone into the AWS and Microsoft ecosystems coming back in here. Again, some of those old faces. Also, new faces. Global diversity from the southern hemisphere and from other countries that you wouldn't expect are here today. That was super interesting. I do see a lot of energy, a lot of excitement about their careers going forward. I do see that tech needs to be, there was some symbolic do-good things here. But I mean, Justin is a little bit involved in your own home country about how the government has the power with technology to do good or bad. I think that may be an emerging thing that we see here now as you get a layer down of not only charity work but the impacts of technology. I bet we'll end up talking about that next year, Stu. >> Guys, we could start talking for a lot longer. The good news is I know how to get in touch with you. For our audience, by the way, you can hit us all up on Twitter, through various social channels. Jtroyer, jpwarren, I'm of course @stu. That's just S-T-U. Blue Cow is on Instagram. Follow the adventures of Blue Cow, showing where Justin's going all over the place. Thanks so much for joining us. Great coverage here. This community's where I get a lot of my guest hosts and still, it's like homecoming coming to this place. Thank you for watching theCUBE. (electronic tones)

>> [Announcer] From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Radio 2018, brought to you by VMware. (upbeat music) >> Hello everyone welcome back, this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage here at VMware's Radio 2018, this is their seminal, big-tent event for their top engineers, smartest people come together present their reports, their projects, and come together as a community and share great content and agenda. As Steve Herrod former CTO says, this is like a sales kickoff for engineers, it's motivated and they flex their muscles, technically, stretch their minds. I'm here with Pat Gelsinger, the CEO VMware, great to see you, welcome back to theCUBE. >> Hey thank you very much, it's fun to be here at Radio. >> So this is nerd central, this is >> Absolutely, this is like geek city baby. >> Dave and I always complement you on your business acumen obviously doing great as a CEO, the numbers, business performance, world class organization, check, best place to work, one of the best places to work for, check. But you're kind of a geek at heart, you like to get down and dirty, technical, this is your event. You gettin' down with the folks? >> Yeah it's fun, I was just at our sales, we have a top sales people, our sales club, so we did it in Abu Dhabi this year, so I was just over there a couple of week ago for that so hobnobbing with the sales guys which is super important, right? Their motivation, their creme de la creme of the year, but to me this one is better, right? Just 'cause now the tech guys comin' together 'cause most companies don't do anything like this, right? So it really is a unique piece of the VMware culture where the tech guys get together and they just geek out for a couple of days and to be awarded best of Radio, it's like, oh man you're a god inside of VMware. >> It's like the Sundance Film Festival, Cannes Film Festival, the Oscars, it's a huge accomplishment and knowing people internally. >> Yeah and some of Ray's numbers this morning as he showed in the keynote, I mean it's competitive to get your paper shown here is competitive, right? So there's a set of judges that are picking the papers that are here out of this we already have over 200 invention disclosures that have come out of just the preparation for the conference and we haven't even gotten started yet, and now the keynotes this morning and poster sessions all week long, and letting the engineers just really vibrate off of each others' ideas and challenge them and all of our PEs and fellows roaming around here they're sort of like the big guys on campus, but hey the young Turks are coming up and they're challenging them on ideas it really is a delightful few days. >> I love your perspective, I wanna get your reaction 'cause one, not only do you have a storied history working at Intel, really a great innovative founders of Silicon Valley with HPs of the world, and now you're the chief of VMware a modern era's here, you talk about this all the time publicly about the business context and at the events, but it's different Google had pioneered this notion of 20% of your time you could work on side project, more of an academic culture Google has, I mean I love that it's cool, but VMware has a unique culture and I want you to talk about that dynamic because you have to be versatile now, agile more than ever, you have to be faster time to market, and it's always been hard for companies to crack the code on knocking down the big ideas, solving the hardest problems but yet making it practical at the same time. What's your reaction to how you guys are doing it, >> what's different? Share some color. >> In some ways and I think some of the panel, we had a panel session this morning, Steve did one session, but we had of the original engineers in the company, the five of the original engineers, right were here and they were saying it was sort of like we're doing research in a business who had business objectives, right? Solving problems that had never been solved before, Sort of the VMware culture is if it's not a hard problem, it's not worth it, right? And our objective isn't to be 2x or 10% better, but to be 10x better, right? And when you're doin' those kind of things you can't always put that on a schedule, right? The problem is solved when it's solved, right? And I was just meeting with one of my teams last night and this is, well alright that looked pretty good but I don't think you've met the minimum viable product yet so let's put it in an open beta for six months before we actually call it GA 'cause I don't think you're done >> solving the hard problem yet, right? >> So you're squinting through and looking at the projects from that? >> Yeah right, is it ready? And have we really delivered something that customers can say, "Yeah here's the value proposition you promised, here's what you're delivering me, it is a quality product," right? Which is something that's deep in that history of VMware right in many cases, and I love one of the statistics this morning, they said the early core dumps of ESX, right they found that over 2/3 of them were a result of memory parody errors, not of ESX failures of any sense, so meaning that the hardware was less reliable than the software was, that's all we sort of this magic that we say, we're out to produce world class infrastructure software that's better than the hardware ever could have been and for a hardware guy that's sort >> So that was your problem, originally I think it was on your watch actually the first core dump. Throwback Thursday would they do core dumps from like 10 years ago look at a simpler core, >> look at x say "Hey look at the core dump, Hey look at cool that is." (laughing) >> If I see the Biaz prompt oh my gosh where did that come from? >> Let's get some vinyl records and look at some core dumps from 1992. >> So Pat, now this is important because I think this is a killer point, when you look at innovation VMware has to meet the challenge of being on that next wave and you've said on theCUBE many times, if you're not on that next wave you're driftwood. A lot of companies who try to do R&D end up solving hard problems to attract the top talent, but they end up getting so focused on the problem they end up in a cul-de-sac on the wrong wave, they miss the next wave. >> [Pat] Yeah. >> How do you manage that? 'Cause this is your sticking point is to make sure you don't miss the next wave, you transition properly, how do you avoid that problem of getting so focused on the intoxicating aspect of solving problem and being in a cul-de-sac no market wave missed? >> Yeah and it's hard right? In that sense and I'll say there's, we sort of look at it from three different dimensions, one is, hey you gotta keep this bubbling cauldron of ideas and that's why we're here at Radio, right? Just these people working on ideas, right? You have some really cool stuff and every once in a while you're telling the engineers, "Well that's good but you haven't solved the hardest piece of that problem yet and so on." Then you have to be able to take it from that bubbling cauldron to, I'll say, an incubation product, right? 'Cause VMware yeah we do R&D, we do core research as well, but fundamentally we've been able to create markets based on our products and really scale them, right? The embarrassing truth of any enterprise software company is for every dollar of R&D you spend, you spend two dollars of sales and marketing, so we can't under invest in those products that we've picked that now are scaling into the market, we have to put the >> dedicated sales >> [John] Get the leverage >> out of it >> The SEs et cetera, that's really frightening. When I'm done innovating a new idea maybe I've dumped 10 million or 15 million into the core idea, okay, now I got to go spend twice that amount on >> Good marketing. >> Marketing of it and boy it's expensive to bring things into the enterprise and if the product isn't robust and solid and really compelling, then it might be three or four x, so you're now rewarded with your R&D investment to go spend on sales and marketing now, so yeah we've really taken and we have a very BCG matrix kind of view of how we take products from incubation into early market success and then into scale and finally cash cow and retirement and that process is one you have to be equally disciplined about. The third piece of it is you have to be able to declare failure and for failures, it's how do you harvest technologies and learning, but be able to look at something vCloud Air and say, "Okay we weren't successful" and now go build a multi cloud, an Amazon partnership coming out of it, we have to be able to make those shifts right and be able to declare failure, be able to move our customers forward, and then move on to the next big thing >> [John] I mean the math works >> 'Cause you're not gonna get 'em all right. >> So to your point, the math works when you can abandon quickly >> [Pat] Yeah. >> That's where the winners are 'cause then you can move the probability of success somewhere else. >> Yeah and if you can't declare failure, right, and view that in the positive and proud way. One of the failures of vCloud Air became the success of our hybrid cloud service capability now, right a lot of this ability to move workloads between public clouds was a direct harvesting of our vCloud Air failure, we're able to take that technology forward and that's now one of the pillars of how we're differentiate and our Amazon service, OBH partnership, IBM, are building on those hybrid cloud capabilities. >> Pat we've been watching you that's one of the things I will say that you're really amazing at, you're good at, you're the captain, you've got your hand on the wheel, you gotta know when to say, "Hey, close that hatch, or we're going to sink," you gotta, or I'm not that there, knowing when to make the calls. So I gotta ask you, when you look at the marketplace now, you have the option to build, the option to buy, and you have to kinda also balance those three areas, you've got Ray, you've got Rajiv, and you've got the Corp Dev guys, they have to work together and sometimes, hey let's go buy that hot start up or no I have it internally, and sometimes it might be in a core competency area. Talk about as the CEO, you've got your hand on the wheel, okay, you're steering the ship, you're setting the direction, the team's workin' hard, how do you make those calls buy build, and when it's in the core area as the market's shifting, what's that look like for you? What your view as you look forward? >> Yeah there's clearly and we think about the case let's take two examples of our buy. AirWatch, hey we saw that we had nothing in mobility and if we're gonna be in end-user computing we must have mobility in the family, so we really in some degree, we didn't have a choice, we had to go buy if we're gonna be in that space and it became foundational for us in that area. You might have argued, hey we should have done that five years sooner, but we didn't, we had to make a buy decision and then we went out and shopped, literally MobileIron or AirWatch? We looked at those and bake those off until almost the last day, alright? And I went into that expecting we were gonna buy MobileIron, right? >> [John] Really? What was the tipping point? >> Right, well, I became a Silicon Valley company, I thought their technology was a little bit better, I thought the AirWatch guys were a little bit too much market and focused on winning the early market, I didn't know if the product had the quality of a VMware product, so I really was handicapping the MobileIron one and the team came out unanimously with my agreement that AirWatch was the right thing, right? In the case of Nicira, one of the other foundational acquisitions that we did, we had a lot of the distributive virtual switch technology we had already innovated, but we hadn't put a control plane, a scale control plane against and that's Nicira did, so there it was really bringing those pieces together which really has become, I'll say, a marquee aspect of our acquisition, in many cases we're in the space >> You feel good about that, how much you paid for that. >> Oh yeah, I mean at the time people said, "1.2 billion for less than 10 million of revenue, what are you guys stupid?" Now everybody says, "Wow you're brilliant." >> So they didn't look at the underlying technology. >> Absolutely >> Leverage you were getting. >> Four years of hard work, core technology, right, and boom, we're unquestionably the leader in software defined networking now as a result of making a pretty bold bet at the time. Obviously organic innovation is the best because it sort of fits in your stream, you don't have to go, you know, change gooey practices or test release practices, it's already part of you as well. But sometimes, hey, I get to look over 10 startups and pick the winner. I may not be able to fund 10 startups internally and pick the winner, but I can look out over, you pay a premium, and one of the unique things about VMware is that over the 60 or so 70 acquisitions I think we've done now, as a company we have a highly successful track record. >> Is that because of the architectural decisions? It's not just bolt on a business unit and say stand alone and produce cash you guys are thinking strategically around how it fits architecturally, is that the difference? >> I'd say it boils down to a handful of things. That's absolutely one of 'em. We're looking deep at technology, how does it fit our technology, can we bring it in? Second we look at the culture of the company, right? We've said no to some acquisitions just 'cause we've decided that culture won't fit our culture or we're not gonna be able to mold it into our culture as well. Number three, we protect this thing, we run a process by which, hey if this is the acquired company, right, and here's the CEO of this startup company, he has passion, he is the commander of his universe, and tomorrow some low-level legal person can say, "No you can't do that," right, yesterday he was enjoying (laughing). Do we protect them? Do we turn their passion and get them to believe that their passion, remember, they're, yeah they wanna be successful, but they wanna turn their passion and objective into a big industry-changing event. And is that passion better executed inside of the platform of VMware? So we protect them, that low-level legal person can't say no or that finance person, we run a special board process around 'em to protect 'em. >> You don't want people handcuffed. >> Yeah, absolutely, we want them to be unleashed, that they have more power not less after they become part of this company that the platform for their vision and passion becomes bigger as part of ours so we protect 'em like crazy in that process. >> And you do that here at Radio as well. You wanna unleash the ground swell, get the grass roots movement going, let the sparks of innovation kinda fly out there. >> Yeah and our success rate is close to 90% on acquisitions and the industry average is below 50% so I think we've really mastered organic and inorganic innovation as good as any company has in the industry. >> Yeah I will say that's the totally true. And also Vsam became a project that came out of Radio that's been highly successful. >> [Pat] Yeah totally organic in that one. >> So you guys think strategically, it's not just bolting on revenue, although that could help if you can find it, there's not much out there for you guys. (both men laughing) Let's talk about some of the hot trends here at Radio. One of the things we're seeing, obviously with tie-in of the competitive, but also the comradery, a lot of, it's interesting to see how competitive it is, but also again VMware's got a hard core engineering culture, but also a hardcore community culture that shines through, it's obvious, so props to the folks running Radio and then the process. But when you look at the trends, what's trending up is the blockchain. We talked to some of your folks there you guys are looking at this, this is really strategic aspect, you talked with Dave about it briefly at Dell Technologies World, what's your view on blockchain? Obviously, you look at infrastructure, blockchain jumps out at you, your reaction to the hype and allusions and reality of blockchain crypto currency, not so much the ICO's, I think that's just a funding dynamic, lot of project-based stuff, but really there's some infrastructuring dynamics, your thoughts on blockchain as an infrastructure enabler for future wave? >> Yeah you know a couple of comments and one is, I think blockchain as a algorithmic breakthrough is on par with public private key encryption, alright? It's just sort of opened up the world of general purpose cryptography, and I think this idea of an immutable distributive ledger, right, sort of busts apart the database and I don't have to bring things together now the databases spreads, right, across it, immutability, right, transactability, et cetera, takes a lot of the acid characteristics of core databases and now does it in the fully distributive way, very powerful and I think it's gonna change supply chains, change financial systems, it's gonna have very broad implications so overall we're in, we believe very much in the importance of that. >> Real quick, to interrupt you real quick, >> 'cause I wanna get this thought in because you brought up general purpose, one of the things we've been kind of talking off camera, most of our team members is, blockchain looks a lot like maybe processors, general purpose processors, opening up an PC revolution, in the sense of general purpose computing. Blockchain seems to have that same dynamic, potentially, not as a direct metaphor, but if you can open up a new dynamic, that could explode new business models yet to be foreseen. >> Oh yeah, yeah, yeah absolutely. If we could take the cost of transactions down by an order of magnitude, right? If you could increase the reliability of a supply chain, right? If you could right in fact guarantee the source of origin of any product against the ultimate place of consumption, these are industry-changing type of capabilities, so we do see it quite significantly that way. But then as VMware looks at it, if there's not a hard problem to solve, then we shouldn't be in this space. So our team, one of the core problems of blockchain, right >> [John] Slow. >> Is the exponential compute requirements of higher order blockchains, so our team has solved that problem we've done some algorithmic breakthroughs that we believe allow blockchain to scale, a close to linear scale as opposed to exponential scale, wow that's game-changing for, we're also solving the auditability problem, immutable, anonymous, immutable is great, but a lot of things need to audited, right? So how can you bring some of those core concepts into blockchain? So those are some of the hard problems that we're solving, sort of back to the 10x culture, solve hard problems in fundamental ways and that's what we think that we can bring to the blockchain universe. >> Well Pat, I think it's amazing that you're here at the event, I know that you love, look forward to this as well, but to have the CEO come in at the Radio event and really lead the troops by example is awesome. We've got VMworld coming up around the corner, give us some teasers, what's happening? I know you're gonna get in trouble from Robin Matlock, (Pat laughing) but come on tell us what's coming at VMworld. >> (laughes) Well you know we have, of course we have a lot of key products, updates and other things that are coming out. I hope to broaden at VMworld this year, the view of the cloud, right? And you say, "Broaden the view of the cloud, what are you talking about Pat?" Well you're gonna have to come to VMware to get the full story, but I do think that we've thought about the hybrid cloud world largely in this idea of public and private in the past, right? But we see that the vision that we're pursuing is one much larger than that where, right, it's public, private, telco, and edge, right? And the confluence of those four worlds, we believe is something that VMware is uniquely positioned to be able to bring right to the marketplace and the implications of that so, I'm quite excited as I broaden our general view >> of the cloud as we come up on VMworld. >> And one of the exciting things it's our ninth year at VMworld, we've been every year one since theCUBE's existed and thank you for your support. >> Ah that's great. >> But I gotta say, one of the things we can do is look at the tape as they say, you said in 2011 or 2012, hybrid cloud and I kind of was like, Pat come on, hybrid cloud. >> Now everybody's talking about it. >> I think that's what it is. >> Yeah. >> But 2012? How many years ago was that? >> I think 2012 I think is when we first started to use that word. >> Yeah you put the stake in the ground, >> again, you saw that as a wave and a lot's been changed and you look back since 2012 you make the right calls, you feel good about where you're at? Things you could do over? What would you do given from a progress standpoint? What's changed radically in your mind? 'Cause we're still talking about private cloud, what, I mean obviously service mesh is around the corner other cool stuff's happening. >> Yeah you know, clearly I think when we think about the STBC, hey we called it right, we're executing better than anybody else. So you can sort of say check, right? Virtual storage, check. We talk about what we've done at NuComputing, transformed their workplace, check. We're unquestionably the industry leader in that area. I think this idea of hybrid cloud it's taken us too hard, too long too hard to realize that the multicloud vision, so that's the one I'd say, okay we haven't delivered as rapidly or as effectively as we needed to, it's now really starting to materialize, but it's taken me a couple, three years longer than it should have to get there and we comment on the vCloud Air and a little bit of the miss that we had there and that delayed our schedule, also some of the Amazon aspects sent us sideways a little bit, but hey I think we're on a very good path now but then to broaden it, to what we're doing in telco, what we're doing in edge, okay this gets to be really really powerful. >> Pat, great for you success. Thanks for coming by theCUBE here at Radio 2018 this is where all the R&D, it's where the ideas are booming I'm John Furrier with Pat Gelsinger, here in San Francisco for Radio 2018, we'll be back with more coverage after this break, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(techno music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its Ecosystem Partners. >> Welcome to Las Vegas everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with Stu Miniman and this is the inaugural Dell Technologies World and Pat Gelsinger's here, he's the- >> Hey, great to be with you today, >> Dave: the CEO of VMware, awesome to see you, >> Oh, thank you. >> Our number one guest of all time, this is our ninth Dell/EMC World and your 900th CUBE interview, But it never gets old Pat. It's really a pleasure to see you. >> Oh it's always fun to be with you guys. Thank you for the chance to spend some time on theCUBE, you've come a long way. >> So, thank you for noticing! So, you were the first, and people are recognizing this, to really sort of call the boom in the data center. We certainly have seen it with cloud, and we saw a little bit with data and big data, and now digital transformation, but well over a year ago, you said, we have tailwinds, it just feels right, so good call. >> Yeah, hey thank you, and you know clearly like the IDCs, Gartners, you know, they began last year, 2% to 3% growth, I said no, I think it's at least 2x that, and we ended of the year almost 6% growth in IT, and everybody's raised their forecast, and I think they're still a little bit conservative, and I think in this period, where technology is becoming more pervasive in everything, every business is becoming a tech business, every area of every business is becoming influenced by tech, and as a result, hey I think we're going to see a long run of tech strength and every company in tech is going to benefit and those that are well-positioned are going to benefit in a big way. >> Yeah, you see, you called it, "tech is breaking out of tech" >> Yep, yep absolutely, right, you know, we're no longer that little IT thing stuck in the back corner making sure your mail runs, it's now everything. You know, back office has become front office, right. You know, every aspect of data becomes mission-critical for the business. As some have called it, you know, data is the new oil, right, in the future. And it really is thrilling to see some of our customers, and Michael had a few on stage this morning doing really pretty cool things. >> Well VMware is on fire. I mean, it's only 10% of Dell's revenue, but it's half, it generates half of its operating cash flow. Obviously we love the software business, of course. Talk about your business, the core is doing really well, you got NSX crankin', vSAN cranking, the cloud now, there's Clarity in cloud, give us the overview of your business and give us the update. >> Sure, and as I say, you know, there's three reasons we're doing well. You know, one is our strategy is resonating with customers, and you know, when you got strategic resonance with customers, you're not in the purchasing department, you're in the business units, the CIO's office. So strategy is resonating well, across what we do for private cloud, what we're doing for public cloud, what we're doing for end user and workforce transformation, our security strategy, every aspect is resonating. You know, second, we're executing well. And I'll say, you know, your good strategy, you're executing it well, and you know, clearly the Dell momentum has helped us. We're ahead of schedules on the synergies that we've laid out, and that's been a powerful accelerant. It was like we're doing well, you know, and you put some turbochargers on, whoa, you know this is going, and then finally as we said, it's a good market, right. And well-positioned tech companies are benefiting from that. So across our product families, you know, NSX, vSAN, and HCI, you know, our cloud management is really performing, the end user computing, you know, all of these seeing, you know 30, 50, 100 percent growth rates. You know, my overall cloud business, you know, VMware is growing in the teens you know, my cloud business is growing in the 30s, and way ahead of the growth rate of the business, so pretty much everything that we've laid out is firing on all cylinders. >> Pat, I think most people understand some of the products of VMware. I think it's, you know, 20 years now, since server virtualization laws You've, you know great momentum with NSX with vSAN, wonder if you could talk a little bit about the digital platform though, you know how does VMware look, you know, for the next five to 10 years, fit into the Vision 2030 like Michael was talking about. >> Yeah, yeah, you know very much, you know, as I say, you know, our objective is to be the essential, ubiquitous, digital infrastructure, right. Where you know, this idea, you know, essential. You know we run this mission critical stuff and increasingly we're seeing businesses put their crown jewels running on VMware. You know, 'cause we ran a lot of the stuff of the past, we'd run your SharePoints, your Outlooks, and so on, but now, they're putting core banking on us, you know, core transactional platform. They just say, you are essential, ubiquitous, our strategy is to move all the way to the edge, and the IOT use cases, into the core networks of our service provider partners, You know, to as I say, build these four clouds, the private cloud, the public cloud, the telco cloud, and the NF or the IOT cloud. All of those on a common infrastructure, that enables applications to build on and leverage all of the above. So you know, we're increasingly ubiquitous, digital infrastructure, meaning that they can build their applications from the past as well as in the future on us. And as we're partnering with Pivotal with our PKS strategy, reaching more to the developer, right, and delivering that infrastructure for the next-generation apps, and of course the dirty secret is, is that almost all of the cool new apps are some ugly combination of new and old. And if we can give a common operational security management and automation environment that transcends their cool new container, and function as a service, but combine it, in a consistent operational and security environment with today's infrastructure, oh, that's like the big easy button for IT. Got it, we could take you to the future, without giving up the past. >> We hear from our, you know, CXOs, in our community, in our audience, they really, they want to get digital right. So my question to you is, what kind of conversations are you having with executives around getting digital right? >> Uh-huh, yeah, and lots of those things are, you know, like just with a big media company, was with a huge Bank, on the phone with a big consumer goods product last week. You know these interactions occurring, you know like you say they want to get it right. And with it we're seeing the conversation shift, because a lot of it used to be, you know best of breed. Oh that looks good, and I'll stitch it together with this, and maybe I'll put it that, and a lot of their bandwidth was being put to putting the pieces together, and we're saying no, right. What you going to do is have robust infrastructure. Increasingly rely on fewer, more strategic vendors. It's my job to put it together, so you can take your investments and put them into the applications and services that really differentiate your business. And this is becoming a sea change in how we work with customers and say, okay, yeah I can't stitch all these pieces together, I can't have a hundred security vendors, I must rely on fewer vendors, in much more strategic ways. And in that, obviously we're benefiting from that enormously and they're expecting us to step up like never before, to be a partner with them, and it really is a thrilling time for us. >> So that simplifies all the complexity on there, and at least in concept. Who's leading this charge? Do you discern any patterns of the guys that are getting it right, versus the guys that are maybe struggling, or maybe complacent, specifically in terms of leadership? >> Yeah, and it's super, super interesting, because I find leaders in every industry, right? You know, you find leaders and laggards in those, I had one customer not a lot, long say, "Hey is that virtualization stuff, can I really rely on it?" It's like, ding dong, you know, you're now the trailing edge of technology, but for every one of those trailers, we're seeing those front end customers, and you saw some of them on stage this morning. Where they're just really going and saying, boy we are now ready to ante in, in a big way. We're seeing that in car companies. We're seeing that in financial services companies. We're seeing that in supply chain companies. And some of those are now really seeing these startups now putting pressure on their business for the first time, and they say no, we got to innovate in a very aggressive way. And for that, you know, the Dell Technologies family, you know all of us coming together, you know with our, each skills and focus areas, but together being able to present that holistic solution that says, that's right, we can lead you on digital transformation, we could change your infrastructure, we can build-in security, we could transform your workplace, we could take you to the multi-cloud future, we got it. >> Pat, there was one of the things that caught my ear, Allison Dew, when she was talking about the Dell Technology Institute, said that, together you're going to become a force for good. I know that's something that's near and dear to your heart, >> Pat: Yeah. >> So, maybe, you talked about the tech, and the security and everything, what about the Dell families as a force for good out there? >> Yeah, and I've described this era, and I've said there's four superpowers. You know, technology superpowers that are bigger than any of us, right. And the four I described, you know, mobile. The ability to reach anyone, over half the planet is now connected. Cloud, the ability to scale as never before. AI, the ability to bring intelligence to everything, and IOT, the ability to bridge to the physical world everywhere. And those four are really reinforcing each other, right? They're accelerating each other, as Michael said, you know, "Today, the fastest day of your life. "Today, the slowest day of the rest of your life, "for tech evolution." And we see them just causing and accelerating each to go, as I mentioned in my talk this week at the Grow Awards in Silicon Valley, in 1986 I was making the 486, a great AI chip, right. It's like, what? 31 years ago? And now it's a success because the superpowers are coming together. The compute is now big enough, the data is now volumous enough, that we can do things never possible before. But with that, technology is neutral. The Gutenberg printing press did the Bible, you know, Luther's Bible, it also prints Playboy. It sort of doesn't care. Technology is neutral. And it's our job as a tech industry to shape technology for good. You know that's our obligation, and increasingly we need to be involved in, and shaping, legislations, policies, laws, to enable tech to be that force for good. >> Pat, you mentioned kind of the speed of change in the industry. You're a public company with you know, a lot of employees, how does, internally, how do you keep up with the pace of change, keep inspiring people, get them working on the next thing? You know, Michael talked about going private was one of the things that would help him restructure and get ready for that, so maybe discuss that dynamic. >> Well, you know and for us, you know, as a software company living in Silicon Valley, we feel it every day, right. I'll tell ya' you know, we see these startups, that are hovering around our people, and our buildings, and they got ideas, you know, so we're synthesizing those ideas. We have our own research effort, our advanced product efforts, we're engaging, you know, and thousands of customer interactions per day. And ultimately, it's my job to create a culture that enables my 8,000 software engineers to go for it every single day, right. Where they are just, you know, they love what we do as a company, they love who we are as a company, our values. And then find ways that we enable our teams to, what I say, innovate in everything. Not just in R and D, but how we sell our products, how we support our customers, you know, how we enable these new use cases. We have to innovate in everything, if we're going to keep pace with this industry, and to some degree, I think it's almost in the water in Silicon Valley, right. You know yeah, you got some crazy master's student coming out of Stanford, and he thinks he's going to start up a company to displace me. It's like, what are you talking about? But we feel that every day, and as we bring those people into our environment, creating that culture that allows everybody to innovate in everything, >> So it's hard to argue that things aren't getting faster, that speed, but speed is an interesting question. When you think about blockchains, and AI, and natural language processing, just digital in general, there's a lot of complexity in terms of adopting those things. So speed versus adoption. What do you see in terms of adoption? >> Yeah, you know in a lot of these things like, you know, you look at a technology like NSX, cool, breakthrough, you know we're five years old now, almost on NSX, right? Since we did the Nicira acquisition as a starting point, 4 1/2 years on NSX, and some of these things need to be sedimented, as I describe it, into the infrastructure. Hardened, you know when you've really proven all of the edge cases. You know, those things don't move every day. >> Dave: Right right, fossilized, Furrier word, >> Yeah, you know there is, you know similarly with vSAN. Boy, these edge use cases, data recovery, pounding on the periphery of failure cases, disk drives, failure modes on flash drives, some of those things need to be sedimented, but as you think about those layers, always it's you know, how do you sediment? How do you standardize? And then expose them as APIs and services to the next layer. And every layer as you go up the stack gets faster and faster right, so as somebody would consume the software-defined data center, they need to be able to do that pretty fast. You know, how can I make, you know VM, we just released 6.7. Which reduced by an order of magnitude the time to launch a VM. You know, increase the, by 20x the amount of V-Center bandwidth, just so I can go faster. Not that I needed to go faster for VMs, I needed to go faster that I can put containers in VMs, and they need much higher speed of operation. So to me, it's this constant standardization, sedimenting, integrating, and then building more and more agile surfaces, as you go higher in the stack, that allows people to build applications where literally they're pushing updates, and seeing their CICD pipeline allow new code releases every day. I'm not changing NSX every day, but I am changing my container environment for that new app literally every day, and the whole stack needs to support that. >> Cloud partnerships, we talked last year at Vmworld, about the clarity that the AWS deal brought, of course you have an arrangement with IBM, you're doing stuff with Kubernetes, so, just talk about your posture with the big cloud players, and how that has affected your business, and where you see it going. >> Yeah, you know, clearly the cloud strategy, the AWS partnership, as I said, more than anything else, when we announced that, people moved their views of VMware. Oh, I get it, VMware isn't part of my private cloud, or part of my past, they're the bridge to the future. And that has been sort of a game-changing perspective where we can truly enable this hybrid cloud experience. Where I could take you and take your existing data centers, I can move them into a range of public cloud partners, AWS, IBM, you know, and be able to operate seamlessly in a truly hybrid way. Oh your data center's getting a little hot, let's move a few workloads out. Oh, it's getting a little bit cool, let's move some workloads back. We can truly do that now, in a seamless, hybrid multi-cloud way, and customers, as they see that, it's not only the most cost-efficient, right, it also allows them to deal with unique business requirements, geo-requirements that they might have, oh, in Europe I have to be on a GDPR cloud in Germany. Okay, we support, we have a right, you know here's our portfolio. Other cases, it's like, oh, I really want to do take advantage of those proprietary services that some of the cloud vendors are doing, you know. You know, maybe in fact that new AI service is something that I could differentiate my business on, but the bulk of my workload, I want to have it on this hybrid platform that truly does give them more freedom and choice over time, while still meeting unique compliance, legal, security, issues, as they've come to know and love from VMware over time. >> So to clarify, is it, are you seeing it as use-case-specific, or is it people wanting to bring that cloud experience on-prem, or is it both? >> It is truly both, because what you've seen, is many people, and if we were talking four years ago, you would've been asking me questions, "oh, you know I just talked to Fred, "and he says everything is going to the cloud" right. And people tried that student body right to the cloud of their existing apps, and it was like, oh crap, right? You know, it's hard to re-platform, to refactor those applications, and when I got there, I got the same app, right. You know, it's like, wow that was a lot of investment to not get much return, right. Now, they look at it and they say, "Oh boy, you know, "I can build some new apps in cool new ways" right, with these cloud native services. I can now have this agile private hybrid cloud environment, and I truly can operationalize across that in a flexible way. And sometimes we have customers that are bringing workloads out of native cloud, and saying, oh that's become too big in my operation role. You know I have different governance requirements. I'm going to bring that one back. Other cases are saying, "Oh, I didn't want to move it to the VMware cloud on Amazon", or you know, IBM, the migration service is really powerful. I want to get out of the data center. Other cases, they look at their cost of capital, and the size and scale they're operating, and says, "Hey, I'm going to keep 80% on-premise forever, "but I never want to be locked in, "that I can't take advantage of that, "should there be a new service." It really is all of the above. And VMware, and our Dell relationship, and our key cloud partners, now 4,100 cloud partners strong, it's really stepping into that, in a pretty unique and powerful way. >> And the key is that operational impact, as Pat is saying. >> So Pat, just one of the challenges we've heard from users we talked to is, if this was supposed to get simpler, virtualizing it, you know, I kept all my old applications. Going the cloud, there's more SKUs of compute in the public cloud than there are, if I was to buy from Dell.com. You know, in management, you know we're making steps, but you know it's heterogeneous, it's always add, nothing ever dies, how do we help customers through this? >> Yeah, and I do think they're, you know we're definitely hearing that from customers. And they're looking to us to make these things simpler. And I think we've now, you know, laid the templates for a truly simpler world. Right, in the security domain, intrinsic security. Build many of the base security capabilities into the platform. Automation, automate across these multiple cloud environments, so you don't care about it, we're taking care of it against your policies. Being able to do that, you know, and have an increasingly autonomous infrastructure that truly is responding and operationalizing those environments, without you having to put personnel and specific investments, right at that fundamental operations level, because it's too big, it's too fast, you can't respond at the pace the business requires. So I feel really good, we have some key innovations, you'll see us announcing. Now, we're going to talk at VMworld right? >> Dave: Oh absolutely. >> Okay, >> I will 100% be there, >> I have some cool announcements in this area, by VMworld as well, specifically, in some of these management automation, we see some of that applying, some new AIML techniques, to be able to help with some of those workload management and policy management areas. So, some really cool things going on to help these problems specifically. >> We've seen, oh we saw blog recently, about you guys working on some blockchain stuff. I know it's early days there, but it's exciting new technology. >> Yeah, and the blockchain stuff is what I'm really, really pretty excited about. We have some algorithmic breakthroughs that right now, you know, blockchain on a log scale basically scales at you know log or super log, right. Which meaning, it's problematic right. Is you get lots of nodes, right, you know the time to resolve those, gets to be exponentially expensive, to be able to resolve. We've come up with some algorithmic breakthroughs that drop that to near linear. And when people look at that, they sort of say, wow, I can make my blockchain environments much larger, much more distributed as a result, so as a result of some of that work we'll be increasingly making blockchain as a primitive. We're not trying to deal with the application level, you know for insurance, for financial, but we can increasingly deliver a primitive infrastructure along with vSphere in the VMware environment, that says yeah, we've taken care of that base issue. We've guaranteed it from a vendor you trusted, and you might remember there was a couple of breaches, of some of the blockchain implementations, so yeah, we hope to take care of some of those hard problems for customers and bring some, a good breakthrough engineering, from VMware to that problem. >> Well, it's great to see companies like VMware and you know enterprise plays, IBM obviously involved, into bringing some credibility to that space, which everybody says "Crypto, oh", they don't walk they run, but there's real potential in the technology. I want to ask you about a Silicon Valley question. >> Pat: Okay. >> Any chance I get, so if I broadly define Silicon Valley, Let's include, you know, Seattle. And we generally don't do that, but that's okay, but I'm going to. >> We'll take this, we'll take 'em in okay. >> it's technology industry, but technology industry seems to have this dual disruption agenda. We've always sort of seen, tech companies own this horizontal stack, you know, and go attack, and cloud, and big data, and disruption, but it seems like, with digital, you're seeing them attack new industries. Whether it's healthcare, or groceries, or media. What do you make of that? Can Silicon Valley, broadly defined, pull off this dual disruption agenda? >> You know I really believe it can, right. In that, I'm, you know, being part of it. I'm a huge optimist on it. I don't think it will be exclusive to Silicon Valley, right. You know, there's a tech community in Boston, that's a bit more focused on healthcare, right. Obviously, the cloud guys coming out of Seattle. You know, Austin, and you know, Texas has increasing, Research Triangle, when you go around the world, you see more places because, you know, in that sense, one of my favorite, you know, cartoons, is a picture of a dog at a terminal. I'm sure it was a Dell terminal, but you know, and the caption reads right, "On the internet, "they don't know you're a dog." Right, you know the point being, hey, when you're on the net, it doesn't matter where you are, right. And it enables innovation, whether that's Afghanistan, whether that's Bangladesh, whether that's Myanmar, you know any of those places, become equal on the net, and it does open up that domain of innovation. So I view it much more as tech is disrupting everything. And that's my theme of, "tech is breaking out of tech". Clearly the hub of that, is Silicon Valley. Right you know, that's the center where you know, every third door is a new startup, as you walk down the street. It really is an incredible experience. But increasingly, you know, that innovative disruptive spirit is breaking out of Silicon Valley, to you know, literally across the world. The Chinese think they might be the number one. You know, Europeans, oh sort of a renaissance in France, you know that we haven't seen for many years, and so on. And I do believe that it will continue to be technology, in this horizontal way you know, but increasingly, and I think you know, Amazon has led the way on this. We're seeing boy, we can disrupt entire industries you know, leveraging that. You know, Tesla in automotive, and Airbnbs. All of these are changing industries in fundamental ways, and I do not see that slowing down at all. You know, I'm thrilled to see like, you know, health care, right. Boy, I have not seen this amount of disruptive technology startups in healthcare, healthcare one of the lowest percentage of spend on IT. Can you imagine that? Right, you know at that level, and boy, we're starting to see that pick up. So industry by industry I think we're just getting started. >> And that's an industry that is really ripe for disruption. >> Pat: Oh my gosh. >> So Pat, we're going to hear about some of this, this afternoon at your keynote, I presume? Maybe show us a little leg there, and we'll wrap. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Dave: Alright, take it home. >> Hey, you know we're, today's keynote, obviously going to talk about the better together aspects, we'll update on vSAN and HCI and our strategy there, some of the cool things we're doing with Dell, and AirWatch Workspace ONE, and the client space. Yeah, we're going to talk about networking. I'm going to lay out our networking strategy, and we're going to give a teaser this afternoon of a broad set of networking announcements that we're doing this week. And hope to really lay out, what we think of, as the virtual cloud network of the future, and how the network is essential to that future. So, we're going to have a little bit of fun there, and you'll see me don the VR headset, right, and hey we're going to go into the virtual, virtual data center today, >> Virtualization inception. >> There we go. >> Well Pat, on a personal note, you've been a great friend of theCUBE, and we really appreciate that, and you've been an awesome guest, we saw you come from Intel with an amazing career, and we just see it going from there. So congratulations on all your personal success, your team success and continued. >> Love you guys, it's always great to be on theCUBE. You guys do a fabulous job, >> Dave: Thank you. >> For live tech coverage, and it really has been a lot of fun, and next year we're going to go party for your 10 year anniversary on theCUBE. >> Dave: That's right. Love it. >> Okay, cool, very good. >> Alright. >> Thank you, thanks so much. >> Good. Thanks. >> Alright, keep it right there everybody. We'll be back with our wall-to-wall coverage of Dell Technologies World. You're watching theCUBE. (techno music)

>> Narrator: From the Computer Museum in Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE, covering ACG Silicon Valley Grow Awards. Brought to you by ACG Silicon Valley. (electronic music) >> Welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at the ACGSV, it's a mouthful. Association of Corporate Growth Silicon Valley Awards, the 14th annual. We've been coming here for about three years. We're really excited to have tonight's keynote speaker on, many time CUBE alum, Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMware. Pat, great to see you. >> Great to be here, Jeff, thank you so much. It's always great to be on theCUBE, and so many good friends from theCUBE and great interviews. I really enjoy you guys, thank you. >> We're excited for VMworld later this year, we've got Dell Technology World coming up next week, so... >> Just working on my keynote this morning, so almost ready to go, so. >> But you're going to keynote tonight, so what's your keynote tonight on? >> Well, tonight, it's about tech as a force for good. And I'm going to talk about what I call the four superpowers today. You know in the past, we thought of superpower, like, USSR and the USA. >> Jeff: Right, right. >> Today I believe superpowers are far more powerful, and they're technology superpowers. And the four I talk about are mobile, unlimited reach, cloud, unlimited scale, A.I., unlimited intelligence, an IOT bridging from the digital to the physical world, and how those four superpowers are reinforcing each other today, and literally it's our opportunity to improve the quality of lives for every human on the planet as a result of those superpowers. And really how it's our responsibility as a tech community to shape those superpowers for good. >> It's so good to talk about the "for good" because there's so much bad in the news lately about some of the stuff that's going on, and you know, it's two sides of the same coin always. You can use it for good or you can use it for bad. And unfortunately, the bad has been in the news more than the good, but there's so many exciting things going on in medicine, healthcare, agriculture, energy. The opportunities are almost endless. >> Yeah, it really is, and as I say, technology is neutral. It can be used for good or bad. The Gutenberg Press. The Bible or Playboy, it works for both, and it really is our responsibility as a society, and I'll say even more so today as tech leaders, to be that force shaping those technological superpowers for good. You know, one of the statistics offside of my keynote, is in the last fifty years, we've taken the extreme poverty rate from over forty percent, to less than ten percent on the planet. It's stunning that we've lifted two and a half billion people out of extreme poverty. Healthcare reach, we've increased the length of life by almost twenty years on the planet, over the last fifty years. I mean, these are stunning things, and largely the result of the technological breakthroughs that we're doing, and as I say, today is the fastest day of tech evolution of your life. It's also the slowest day of tech evolution of the rest of your life. >> Of the rest of your life, pretty interesting. And with 5G coming just around the corner, kind of thinking of a world of infinite bandwidth, infinite compute, infinite store. How do you start to design applications and distribution when you can have all that power? And as you said, with cloud really at your disposal. You don't have to build it all yourself, you leverage companies like you guys to put it in place and I as an entrepreneur don't have to build all that stuff anymore. >> That's right, this really is impressive that way, 'cause today we've crossed over half the population of the planet has a persistent connection to the internet over some form of mobile or PC device. Half the population, you can now reach over the internet. I mean, it's just stunning that way. >> Jeff: Yeah. >> You can rent the world's largest super computer for a few thousand bucks. The scale that we're able to now conduct business to be able to develop software to reach customers, and truly to change people's lives. >> Right. You do a lot of work. I follow you on Twitter and you're out in the community, you do a lot of stuff with your faith and outside of work to help people. You see the power that you can bring to this technology. What are some of the inspiring stories that get you up everyday, when you do some of this stuff outside of your day job? >> It really is exciting and one of the charities that my wife and I are very involved in is called Missions of Hope International. They work in the slums of Nairobi primarily, and we help to start schools there that literally today have over fifteen thousand kids in the schools that we helped start. Over the summer, I'm climbing Mount Kilimanjaro, in July, as a fundraise to build the next girls high school for those schools. As the girls get younger, they get pulled back into tribalism. For five camels, they get married off at young ages, and keeping them in school so that they can really advance and become proper members of society versus drug into tribalism, so that's one of my summer projects is doing that. Particularly in Kenya, we've been thrilled, things like M-Pesa, and we work with a company called Node Africa, to deliver farming and agricultural services. You know, the most basic things that give people market access, give people cropped information, and literally are lifting people out of poverty in the country of Kenya today. >> That's great work and like I said, follow Pat on Twitter. You're pretty active on there doing good work. >> Thank you. >> We look forward to your keynote tonight and we'll see you next week in Las Vegas. >> Look forward to it. Thank you so much, Jeff. >> Alright, he's Pat Gelsinger, I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE from the ACGSV Awards. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)