>>From around the globe. It's the cube covering Fortinet security summit brought to you by Fortinet. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of 40 net championship security summit from beautiful Napa valley. Lisa Martin here with John farrier, John, and has been phenomenal to do an event in person outdoors and Napa valley. >>You're so bright. We have to wear shades. It's been sunny and it's been hot. It's been great. It's been a great, it's been a great day. I mean, I think Fordanet stepping up to that sponsorship for the PGA is a bold move they're doing well on the business front. They're expanding it. It's good for their customers. It's a new, bold marketing step. Affordanet honestly, they're doing extremely well on the business front. As I mentioned, they got a lot of cash coming in. They got happy customers and they're all here. And golf is a great environment for tech buyers. We know that. So it's great to have the cube on the sports circuit and, uh, we'll be doing more of them. It's it's awesome. >>Good. I, it is great to be on this sport circuit. One of the things that I talked with several folks about today, John Madison being one that CEO, CFO, COO, and then Kenzie, the CEO of Fordanet about the cultural synergies between the PGA and Ford nine. It was really nice to hear how both of these companies, both of these organizations are so invested in things like women in technology and steam and stem programs, and they really align on those two cultures. >>Yeah, there's a, it's a, it's a, it's a culture fit. I mean, they basically, it's a winning formula. Look at Ford and net. Um, you know, and having that kind of representation is good. They, they have a great reputation put in. It does PGA does as well and it's quality, right? So people like, like quality and they want to line that. So it's a great business move for Fordanet to, uh, to do the, uh, the golf sponsorship, uh, multiple years. I think it's six years, five or six years, they get they're doing this. Um, it's phenomenal. I think they're going to Fortnite is going to turn into a marketing powerhouse. I think you're going to start to see John Madison and the team, uh, really gin up some nice new things, because you can do a lot with the PGA. Again, this foundations is charities, again, a lot of causes that are involved in, in fundraising around the PGA and you got the tour players and honestly the tech scene. So I think tech and sports has always been something that I've loved. And I think, you know, we'd love to come and bring our sets here and having the cube here is just a really fun kind of winning formula as well. We'd love it. And we, and we wish we could eat it for more days this year. I think we will, but this has been so much, >>It has been so much fun. There's been about over 300 customers and partners here. Fortnite is a, is a hundred percent partner driven organization. Lot of innovation being discussed the last eight hours or so, but one of the things that you definitely feel is the strength in their partner, community and Fortinets commitment to it. Also something that really impresses me is their commitment to helping to fill the cybersecurity skills gap. This is a gap that has been growing for the last five years. They last week announced a pledge to train 1 million people in the next five years to help shorten that gap. And as we know that the threat landscape is only continuing to expand. So the great combination there, >>And it's a, cause that's a good business logic behind it because there's a of negative unemployment. They need more people to do cybersecurity careers, but also you mentioned women in tech, you know, a lot of that's a big movement too. You start to see a much more women in tech scene here. We had, uh, Merritt bear on principal office of the CSO at Amazon web services on she's amazing. She's wearing the Amazon Krypto shirts. That was a home run, love that interview, but you started to see them afford a net with the whole scene. Here is they're taking their message directly to their customers and they're including their customers. So the magic of this formula that they have with the PGA and this whole program is they don't have live concert series. They got a pavilion here with all their top partners, with customers that doing a summit behind us with their top marquee customers. And they're telling the story direct and you're going, I think you need to shift to see Fordanet really do more of that. What we love in the key, which is take that direct to, to media model, to their customers and contents data. We had great conversations here. I mean, that's all you, you know, viewing the, uh, head VP SVP of at and T cybersecurity, uh, amazing, uh, uh, candidate there's great cube guests. And he was just traveling some serious wisdom. So great guests all along. Fantastic. >>Well, it's, it's been an inspiring day. It's nice that 40 minute has taken the step to do an in-person event. Obviously they did it extremely safely. We were outdoors, but people are, I think a lot of people and I'm speaking for myself, for sure, ready for this to come back and meet the threat landscape that changes that that 40 net has seen in the last 18 months are phenomenal. The growth in ransomware, nearly 11 X in a year. And you had this massive shift to work from home. And now they're talking about how they're partnering with links us, for example, to help enterprises, to really make that remote work environment far more secure, faster, and optimize for the worker. Who's on video conferencing, communication tools. All the kids at home gaming are probably going to be pretty bummed about this, but it really shows coordinates commitment to this. There's a lot of permanence to what we're seeing here in this model. >>I know you and I have done ton of interviews together and, uh, with great guests around cybersecurity and the phrase always comes up and over the past decade, there's there is no more perimeter here. You couldn't, you couldn't, it was louder than ever here because now you have so much going on connected devices. The future of work is at home with the virtual, uh, issues with the pandemic. And now with the Delta variant, uh, continuing at forward, it's a reality, we're in a hybrid world and, um, everything's going hybrid. And I think that's a new thing for companies to operationalize. So they got, there's no playbook. So there is a security playbook. And what these guys are doing is building an ecosystem to build product that people can wrap services around and to solve the key security problems. And that's that, that to me is a good business model. And the SAS is, again, you're seeing everyone go SAS. They want to go SAS product, or, you know, uh, some sort of business models involved in cloud. So cloud security, SAS all kind of rolled up. It's really kinda interesting trend. >>Yeah. We've talked about a whole bunch of trends today. One of them is just one of the marketing terms I've been using and I don't like to use it, but around for years as a future ready people, tech companies always describing solutions and technologies and products is future ready? Well, what does that really mean? Well, when the pandemic struck, none of us were future ready, but what we did hear and see and feel today from 40 net and their partners is how much acceleration they've done. So that going forward, we are going to be future ready for situations that arise like in this challenging cybersecurity landscape that businesses in every industry can prepare for. >>I think, I think the talks here in the cyber security summit behind us, it's interesting. Uh, Tufin one of their customers on a lot of the talks were the same thing, talking about the cultural shift, the cultural shift and security departments has to become more agile. And so that is a big untold story right now is that security departments. Aren't well-liked, they slow things down. I mean, you know, app review everything's gotta be looked at and it takes weeks. That is not good for developers. So app developers in the cloud, they want minutes, you know, shift left is something that we talk about all the time in our events with the developers dev ops movement is putting pressure on the security teams, culturally, who moves first. You don't go faster. You're going to be replaced, but you can't replace a security team. So I find that whole security cloud team dynamic, real organizational challenges. That's something I'm going to look into is one of my key takeaways from this this week. Yeah. >>A huge organizational change. And with that comes, you know, obviously different cultures with these organizations, but at the same time, there really is no more choice. They have to be working together. And as Kenzie and I were talking about, you know, security is no longer an ITP, this is a board level initiative and discussion businesses in every industry, whether it's a retailer or PGA tour have to be prepared. >>Yeah. I mean, I'm a security Hawk. I think every company needs to be prepared to take an offensive strike and be ready on the defense. And this is a huge agility and speed cause ransomware, you get taken down, you know, I mean that's business critical issue. You're dead, you're dead in the water. So, so again, this is all part of his quote digital transformation, uh, that everyone's talking about and is a do over, everyone's doing it over and doing it with the cloud. And I remember just recently in 2012, people were saying, oh, the cloud is not secure. It's now some more secure than anything else. So we starting to see that shift so that realities hit everybody. So it's been great. >>What are some of the things that excited you about the conversations that you had today? >>I was pretty impressed by the fact that one was a physical advantage. You mentioned. So, you know, people in personal, I found it refreshing. I think people here, I noticed we're one relieved to be out and about in public and talking on the cube. Um, but I was really impressed with, uh, the guests from Amazon web services. She was a crypto shirt that got me there. But I think this idea that security is not just a guy thing, right? So to me, women in tech was a, was a big conversation. I thought it was very positive this week, um, here and still a lot more work to do, but I think that's, what's cool. And just the talks were great. I mean, it's cutting edge concepts here. And I thought at, and T was great. I thought, uh, Tufin was a great conversation and again, all the guests that were awesome. So what did you think, what was your take? >>Just how much acceleration we've seen in the last year on innovation and partnerships that really jumped out that when, like I said, we talked about future ready and go, wow. So much of the world wasn't future ready a year and a half ago when this came out and all of the innovation and the positivities that have come out of technology companies creating, because we don't have a choice. We have to figure out secure work from home. For example, we know that some amount of it's going to persist hybrid maybe here to stay, to see what 40 net and their partner ecosystem have done in a short time period. Given the fact that you mentioned ransomware and their global threat landscape, I was talking with Derek, nearly X increased in ransomware and just, >>And they've got four to guard. They got all this. I think your interview with Ken, the CEO, I thought it was really compelling. It was one point he said, um, we're making a lot more investments when you asked him a pointed question. And I think that theme comes across really strong in all of our interviews today. And the conversations in the hallway here is that people that are making the investments are doing well. And so there's more investments being made and that's like, people kind of say, oh yeah, we can do this one, but you have to now. And so the other thing that I thought was awesome with John Madison, talking about their strategy around the PGA, it's a bold move, but it's kind of got this mindset of always innovating, but they're not, they go step at a time, so they get better. So I'm, I'm expecting next year to be better than this year, bigger, uh, and more integrated because that's what they do. They make things better. Um, I think that's gonna be fun to watch, but I think that's a bold move for Affordanet to be doing this kind of marketing. It's really, they haven't done that in the, in the past. So I think this is a really bold move. >>I agree. And they've spun this out of their accelerate event, which is an event that we've covered for years in person. So this was the first time that they've pulled the security summit out as its own event. And clearly there was a great buzz behind us all day. Lots of, lots of topics, a lot of discussions, a lot of partnership. And you're right. A lot of talk about investment investment in their partner ecosystem and investment internally. Yes. >>It's fun too. On a personal note, we've been following Fordanet for many, many years. You and I both got doing the interviews and you do and go to the events is watching them grow and be successful. And it's kind of proud though. I, yeah, I'll go for it. And that kind of rooting for him. And I want to thank them for inviting the cube here because we're so psyched to be here and be part of this awesome event. And again, golf, the cube kind of go together, right? Sports, the cubes. We love it. So always fun. So thanks to, for, to net out there for, uh, supporting us and being, being part of the cube. >>Well, you got the gear, you got your Fordanet Gulf t-shirt I got one too. And pink. It's beautiful. Yeah. You got some shades, but we also have some gear here help us in the morning for our next shows. Be caffeinated. Yeah. But no, it's been great. It's been great to be here. Great to hook co-host with you again in person if for 20 months or so, and looking forward to seeing how 49 and how back >>He was back up the vents. Thanks to the crew. Chuck Leonard, every one's era, Brendan. Right. Well done. Fordanet thank you. Thank you for >>John's been great. Thanks for having me up here today. Looking forward to the next time from Napa valley, Lisa Martin, for John farrier, you've been watching the cube

from around the globe it's thecube covering space and cyber security symposium 2020 hosted by cal poly hello and welcome to thecube's coverage we're here hosting with cal poly an amazing event space in the intersection of cyber security this session is defending satellite and space infrastructure from cyber threats got two great guests we've got major general john shaw combined four space component commander u.s space command and vandenberg air force base in california and roland cuello who's the ceo of maverick space systems gentlemen thank you for spending the time to come on to this session for the cal poly space and cyber security symposium appreciate it absolutely um guys defending satellites and space infrastructure is the new domain obviously it's a war warfighting domain it's also the future of the world and this is an important topic because we rely on space now for our everyday life and it's becoming more and more critical everyone knows how their phones work and gps just small examples of all the impacts i'd like to discuss with this hour this topic with you guys so if we can have you guys do an opening statement general if you can start with your opening statement we'll take it from there thanks john and greetings from vandenberg air force base we are just down the road from cal poly here on the central coast of california and uh very proud to be part of this uh effort and part of the partnership that we have with with cal poly on a number of fronts um i should uh so in in my job here i actually uh have two hats that i wear and it's i think worth talking briefly about those to set the context for our discussion you know we had two major organizational events within our department of defense with regard to space last year in 2019 and probably the one that made the most headlines was the stand-up of the united states space force that happened uh december 20th last year and again momentous the first new branch in our military since 1947 uh and uh it is a it's just over nine months old now as we're making this recording uh and already we're seeing a lot of change uh with regard to how we're approaching uh organizing training and equipping on a service side or space capabilities and so i uh in that with regard to the space force the hat i wear there is commander of space operations command that was what was once 14th air force when we were still part of the air force here at vandenberg and in that role i'm responsible for the operational capabilities that we bring to the joint warfighter and to the world from a space perspective didn't make quite as many headlines but another major change that happened last year was the uh the reincarnation i guess i would say of united states space command and that is a combatant command it's how our department of defense organizes to actually conduct warfighting operations um most people are more familiar perhaps with uh central command centcom or northern command northcom or even strategic command stratcom well now we have a space com we actually had one from 1985 until 2002 and then stood it down in the wake of the 9 11 attacks and a reorganization of homeland security but we've now stood up a separate command again operationally to conduct joint space operations and in that organization i wear a hat as a component commander and that's the combined force-based component command uh working with other all the additional capabilities that other services bring as well as our allies that combined in that title means that uh i under certain circumstances i would lead an allied effort uh in space operations and so it's actually a terrific job to have here on the central coast of california uh both working the uh how we bring space capabilities to the fight on the space force side and then how we actually operate those capabilities it's a point of joint in support of joint warfighters around the world um and and national security interests so that's the context now what el i i also should mention you kind of alluded to john you're beginning that we're kind of in a change situation than we were a number of years ago and that space we now see space as a warfighting domain for most of my career going back a little ways most of my my focus in my jobs was making sure i could bring space capabilities to those that needed them bringing gps to that special operations uh soldier on the ground somewhere in the world bringing satellite communications for our nuclear command and control bringing those capabilities for other uses but i didn't have to worry in most of my career about actually defending those space capabilities themselves well now we do we've actually gone to a point where we're are being threatened in space we now are treating it more like any other domain normalizing in that regard as a warfighting domain and so we're going through some relatively emergent efforts to protect and defend our capabilities in space to to design our capabilities to be defended and perhaps most of all to train our people for this new mission set so it's a very exciting time and i know we'll get into it but you can't get very far into talking about all these space capabilities and how we want to protect and defend them and how we're going to continue their ability to deliver to warfighters around the globe without talking about cyber because they fit together very closely so anyway thanks for the chance to be here today and i look forward to the discussion general thank you so much for that opening statement and i would just say that not only is it historic with the space force it's super exciting because it opens up so much more challenges and opportunities for to do more and to do things differently so i appreciate that statement roland your opening statement your your job is to put stuff in space faster cheaper smaller better your opening statement please um yes um thank you john um and yes you know to um general shaw's point you know with with the space domain and the need to protect it now um is incredibly important and i hope that we are more of a help um than a thorn in your side um in terms of you know building satellites smaller faster cheaper um you know and um definitely looking forward to this discussion and you know figuring out ways where um the entire space domain can work together you know from industry to to us government even to the academic environment as well so first would like to say and preface this by saying i am not a cyber security expert um we you know we build satellites um and uh we launch them into orbit um but we are by no means you know cyber security experts and that's why um you know we like to partner with organizations like the california cyber security institute because they help us you know navigate these requirements um so um so i'm the ceo of um of maverick space systems we are a small aerospace business in san luis obispo california and we provide small satellite hardware and service solutions to a wide range of customers all the way from the academic environment to the us government and everything in between we support customers through an entire you know program life cycle from mission architecture and formulation all the way to getting these customer satellites in orbit and so what we try to do is um provide hardware and services that basically make it easier for customers to get their satellites into orbit and to operate so whether it be reducing mass or volume um creating greater launch opportunities or providing um the infrastructure and the technology um to help those innovations you know mature in orbit you know that's you know that's what we do our team has experienced over the last 20 years working with small satellites and definitely fortunate to be part of the team that invented the cubesat standard by cal poly and stanford uh back in 2000 and so you know we are in you know vandenberg's backyard um we came from cal poly san luis obispo um and you know our um our hearts are fond you know of this area and working with the local community um a lot of that success um that we have had is directly attributable um to the experiences that we learned as students um working on satellite programs from our professors and mentors um you know that's you know all you know thanks to cal poly so just wanted to tell a quick story so you know back in 2000 just imagine a small group of undergraduate students you know myself included with the daunting task of launching multiple satellites from five different countries on a russian launch vehicle um you know many of us were only 18 or 19 not even at the legal age to drink yet um but as you know essentially teenagers we're managing million dollar budgets um and we're coordinating groups um from around the world um and we knew that we knew what we needed to accomplish um yet we didn't really know um what we were doing when we first started um the university was extremely supportive um and you know that's the cal poly learn by doing philosophy um i remember you know the first time we had a meeting with our university chief legal counsel and we were discussing the need to to register with the state department for itar nobody really knew what itar was back then um and you know discussing this with the chief legal counsel um you know she was asking what is itar um and we essentially had to explain you know this is um launching satellites as part of the um the u.s munitions list and essentially we have a similar situation you know exporting munitions um you know we are in similar categories um you know as you know as weapons um and so you know after that initial shock um everybody jumped in you know both feet forward um the university um you know our head legal counsel professors mentors and the students um you know knew we needed to tackle this problem um because you know the the need was there um to launch these small satellites and um you know the the reason you know this is important to capture the entire spectrum of users of the community um is that the technology and the you know innovation of the small satellite industry occurs at all levels you know so we have academia commercial national governments we even have high schools and middle schools getting involved and you know building satellite hardware um and the thing is you know the the importance of cyber security is incredibly important because it touches all of these programs and it touches you know people um at a very young age um and so you know we hope to have a conversation today um to figure out you know how do we um create an environment where we allow these programs to thrive but we also you know protect and you know keep their data safe as well thank you very much roland appreciate that uh story too as well thanks for your opening statement gentlemen i mean i love this topic because defending the assets in space is is as obvious um you look at it but there's a bigger picture going on in our world right now and generally you kind of pointed out the historic nature of space force and how it's changing already operationally training skills tools all that stuff is revolving you know in the tech world that i live in you know change the world is a topic they use that's thrown around a lot you can change the world a lot of young people we have just other panels on this where we're talking about how to motivate young people changing the world is what it's all about with technology for the better evolution is just an extension of another domain in this case space is just an extension of other domains similar things are happening but it's different there's a huge opportunity to change the world so it's faster there's an expanded commercial landscape out there certainly government space systems are moving and changing how do we address the importance of cyber security in space general we'll start with you because this is real it's exciting if you're a young person there's touch points of things to jump into tech building hardware to changing laws and and everything in between is an opportunity and it's exciting and it's truly a chance to change the world how does the commercial government space systems teams address the importance of cyber security so john i think it starts with with the realization that as i like to say that cyber and space are bffs uh there's nothing that we do on the cutting edge of space that isn't heavy reliant heavily reliant on the cutting edge of cyber and frankly there's probably nothing on the cutting edge of cyber that doesn't have a space application and when you realize that you see how how closely those are intertwined as we need to move forward at at speed it becomes fundamental to to the to answering your question let me give a couple examples we one of the biggest challenges i have on a daily basis is understanding what's going on in the space domain those on the on the on the surface of the planet talk about tyranny of distance across the oceans across large land masses and i talk about the tyranny of volume and you know right now we're looking out as far as the lunar sphere there's activity that's extending out to the out there we expect nasa to be conducting uh perhaps uh human operations in the lunar environment in the next few years so it extends out that far when you do the math that's a huge volume how do you do that how do you understand what's happening in real time in within that volume it is a big data problem by the very definition of that that kind of effort to that kind of challenge and to do it successfully in the years ahead it's going to require many many sensors and the fusion of data of all kinds to present a picture and then analytics and predictive analytics that are going to deliver an idea of what's going on in the space arena and that's just if people are not up to mischief once you have threats introduced into that environment it is even more challenging so i'd say it's a big data problem that we'll be enjoying uh tackling in the years ahead a second example is you know we if i if i had to if we had to take a vote of what were the most uh amazing robots that have ever been designed by humans i think that spacecraft would have to be up there on the list whether it's the nasa spacecraft that explore other planets or the ones that we or gps satellites that that amazingly uh provide a wonderful service to the entire globe uh and beyond they are amazing technological machines that's not going to stop i mean all the work that roland talked about at the at the even even that we're doing it at the kind of the microsoft level is is putting cutting-edge technology into smaller packages you can to get some sort of capability out of that as we expand our activities further and further into space for national security purposes or for exploration or commercial or civil the the cutting edge technologies of uh artificial intelligence uh and machine to machine engagements and machine learning are going to be part of that design work moving forward um and then there's the threat piece as we try to as we operate these these capabilities how these constellations grow that's going to be done via networks and as i've already pointed out space is a warfighting domain that means those networks will come under attack we expect that they will and that may happen early on in a conflict it may happen during peace time in the same way that we see cyber attacks all the time everywhere in many sectors of of activity and so by painting that picture you kind of get you we start to see how it's intertwined at the very very base most basic level the cutting edge of cyber and cutting edge of space with that then comes the need to any cutting edge cyber security capability that we have is naturally going to be needed as we develop space capabilities and we're going to have to bake that in from the very beginning we haven't done that in the past as well as we should but moving forward from this point on it will be an essential ingredient that we work into all of our new capability roland we're talking about now critical infrastructure we're talking about new capabilities being addressed really fast so it's kind of chaotic now there's threats so it's not as easy as just having capabilities because you've got to deal with the threats the general just pointed out but now you've got critical infrastructure which then will enable other things down down the line how do you protect it how do we address this how do you see this being addressed from a security standpoint because you know malware these techniques can be mapped in as extended into into space and takeovers wartime peacetime these things are all going to be under threat that's pretty well understood i think people kind of get that how do we address it what's your what's your take yeah you know absolutely and you know i couldn't agree more with general shaw you know with cyber security and space being so intertwined um and you know i think with fast and rapid innovation um comes you know the opportunity for threats especially um if you have bad actors um that you know want to cause harm and so you know as a technology innovator and you're pushing the bounds um you kind of have a common goal of um you know doing the best you can um and you know pushing the technology balance making it smaller faster cheaper um but a lot of times what entrepreneurs and you know small businesses and supply chains um are doing and don't realize it is a lot of these components are dual use right i mean you could have a very benign commercial application but then a small you know modification to it and turn it into a military application and if you do have these bad actors they can exploit that and so you know i think the the big thing is um creating a organization that is you know non-biased that just wants to kind of level the playing field for everybody to create a set standard for cyber security in space i think you know one group that would be perfect for that you know is um cci um you know they understand both the cybersecurity side of things and they also have you know at cal poly um you know the the small satellite group um and you know just having kind of a a clearinghouse or um an agency where um can provide information that is free um you know you don't need a membership for and to be able to kind of collect that but also you know reach out to the entire value chain you know for a mission and um making them aware um of you know what potential capabilities are and then how it might um be you know potentially used as a weapon um and you know keeping them informed because i think you know the the vast majority of people in the space industry just want to do the right thing and so how do we get that information free flowing to you know to the us government so that they can take that information create assessments and be able to not necessarily um stop threats from occurring presently but identify them long before that they would ever even happen um yeah that's you know general i want to i want to follow up on that real quick before we go to the next talk track critical infrastructure um you mentioned you know across the oceans long distance volume you know when you look at the physical world you know you had you know power grids here united states you had geography you had perimeters uh the notion of a perimeter and the moat this is and then you had digital comes in then you have we saw software open up and essentially take down this idea of a perimeter and from a defense standpoint and that everything changed and we had to fortify those critical assets uh in the u.s space increases the same problem statement significantly because it's you can't just have a perimeter you can't have a moat it's open it's everywhere like what digital's done and that's why we've seen a slurge of cyber in the past two decades attacks with software so this isn't going to go away you need the critical infrastructure you're putting it up there you're formulating it and you've got to protect it how do you view that because it's going to be an ongoing problem statement what's the current thinking yeah i i think my sense is a mindset that you can build a a firewall or a defense or some other uh system that isn't dynamic in his own right is probably not heading in the right direction i think cyber security in the future whether it's for our space systems or for other critical infrastructure is going to be a dynamic fight that happens at a machine-to-machine um a speed and dynamic um i don't think it's too far off where we will have uh machines writing their own code in real time to fight off attacks that are coming at them and by the way the offense will probably be doing the same kind of thing and so i i guess i would not want to think that the answer is something that you just build it and you leave it alone and it's good enough it's probably going to be a constantly evolving capability constantly reacting to new threats and staying ahead of those threats that's the kind of use case just to kind of you know as you were kind of anecdotal example is the exciting new software opportunities for computer science majors i mean i tell my young kids and everyone man it's more exciting now i wish i was 18 again it's so so exciting with ai bro i want to get your thoughts we were joking on another panel with the dod around space and the importance of it obviously and we're going to have that here and then we had a joke it's like oh software's defined everything it says software's everything ai and and i said well here in the united states companies had data centers and they went to the cloud and they said you can't do break fix it's hard to do break fix in space you can't just send a tech up i get that today but soon maybe robotics the general mentions robotics technologies and referencing some of the accomplishments fixing things is almost impossible in space but maybe form factors might get better certainly software will play a role what's your thoughts on that that landscape yeah absolutely you know for for software in orbit um you know there's there's a push for you know software-defined radios um to basically go from hardware to software um and you know that's that that's a critical link um if you can infiltrate that and a small satellite has propulsion on board you could you know take control of that satellite and cause a lot of havoc and so you know creating standards and you know that kind of um initial threshold of security um you know for let's say you know these radios you know communications and making that um available um to the entire supply chain to the satellite builders um and operators you know is incredibly key and you know that's again one of the initiatives that um that cci is um is tackling right now as well general i want to get your thoughts on best practices around cyber security um state of the art today uh and then some guiding principles and kind of how the if you shoot the trajectory forward what what might happen uh around um supply chain there's been many stories where oh we outsourced the chips and there's a little chip sitting in a thing and it's built by someone else in china and the software is written from someone in europe and the united states assembles it it gets shipped and it's it's corrupt and it has some cyber crime making i'm oversimplifying the the statement but this is what when you have space systems that involve intellectual property uh from multiple partners whether it's from software to creation and then deployment you get supply chain tiers what are some of the best practices that you see involving that don't stunt the innovation but continues to innovate but people can operate safely what's your thoughts yeah so on supply chain i think i think the symposium here is going to get to hear from lieutenant general jt thompson uh from space missile system center down in los angeles and and uh he's a he's just down the road from us there uh on the coast um and his team is is the one that we look to really focus on as he acquires and develop again bake in cyber security from the beginning and knowing where the components are coming from and and properly assessing those as you as you put together your space systems is a key uh piece of what his team is focused on so i expect we'll hear him talk about that when it talks to i think she asked the question a little more deeply about how do the best practices in terms of how we now develop moving forward well another way that we don't do it right is if we take a long time to build something and then you know general general jt thompson's folks take a while to build something and then they hand it over to to to me and my team to operate and then they go hands-free and and then and then that's you know that's what i have for for years to operate until the next thing comes along that's a little old school what we're going to have to do moving forward with our space capabilities and with the cyber piece baked in is continually developing new capability sets as we go we actually have partnership between general thompson's team and mine here at vandenberg on our ops floor or our combined space operations center that are actually working in real time together better tools that we can use to understand what's going on the space environment to better command and control our capabilities anywhere from military satellite communications to space domain awareness sensors and such and so and we're developing those capabilities in real time it's a dev and and with the security pieces so devsecops is we're practicing that in in real time i think that is probably the standard today that we're trying to live up to as we continue to evolve but it has to be done again in close partnership all the time it's not a sequential industrial age process while i'm on the subject of partnerships so general thompson's and team and mine have good partnerships it's part partnerships across the board are going to be another way that we are successful and that uh it means with with academia in some of the relationships that we have here with cal poly it's with the commercial sector in ways that we haven't done before the old style business was to work with just a few large um companies that had a lot of space experience well we need we need a lot of kinds of different experience and technologies now in order to really field good space capabilities and i expect we'll see more and more non-traditional companies being part of and and organizations being part of that partnership that will work going forward i mentioned at the beginning that um uh allies are important to us so everything that uh that role and i've been talking about i think you have to extrapolate out to allied partnerships right it doesn't help me uh as a combined force component commander which is again one of my jobs it doesn't help me if the united states capabilities are cyber secure but i'm trying to integrate them with capabilities from an ally that are not cyber secure so that partnership has to be dynamic and continually evolving together so again close partnering continually developing together from the acquisition to the operational sectors with as many um different sectors of our economy uh as possible are the ingredients to success general i'd love to just follow up real quick i was having just a quick reminder for a conversation i had with last year with general keith alexander who was does a lot of cyber security work and he was talking about the need to share faster and the new school is you got to share faster and to get the data you mentioned observability earlier you need to see what everything's out there he's a real passionate person around getting the data getting it fast and having trusted partners so that's not it's kind of evolving as i mean sharing is a well-known practice but with cyber it's sensitive data potentially so there's a trust relationship there's now a new ecosystem that's new for uh government how do you view all that and your thoughts on that trend of the sharing piece of it on cyber so it's i don't know if it's necessarily new but it's at a scale that we've never seen before and by the way it's vastly more complicated and complex when you overlay from a national security perspective classification of data and information at various levels and then that is again complicated by the fact you have different sharing relationships with different actors whether it's commercial academic or allies so it gets very very uh a complex web very quickly um so that's part of the challenge we're working through how can we how can we effectively share information at multiple classification levels with multiple partners in an optimal fashion it is certainly not optimal today it's it's very difficult even with maybe one industry partner for me to be able to talk about data at an unclassified level and then various other levels of classification to have the traditional networks in place to do that i could see a solution in the future where our cyber security is good enough that maybe i only really need one network and the information that is allowed to flow to the players within the right security environment um to uh to make that all happen as quickly as possible so you've actually uh john you've hit on yet another big challenge that we have is um is evolving our networks to properly share with the right people at the right uh clearance levels as at speed of war which is what we're going to need yeah and i wanted to call that out because this is an opportunity again this discussion here at cal poly and around the world is for new capabilities and new people to solve the problems and um it's again it's super exciting if you you know you're geeking out on this it's if you have a tech degree or you're interested in changing the world there's so many new things that could be applied right now roland will get your thoughts on this because one of the things in the tech trends we're seeing this is a massive shift all the theaters of the tech industry are are changing rapidly at the same time okay and it affects policy law but also deep tech the startup communities are super important in all this too we can't forget them obviously the big trusted players that are partnering certainly on these initiatives but your story about being in the dorm room now you got the boardroom and now you got everything in between you have startups out there that want to and can contribute and you know what's an itar i mean i got all these acronym certifications is there a community motion to bring startups in in a safe way but also give them a ability to contribute because you look at open source that proved everyone wrong on software that's happening now with this now open network concept the general is kind of alluding to which is it's a changing landscape your thoughts i know you're passionate about this yeah absolutely you know and i think um you know as general shaw mentioned you know we need to get information out there faster more timely and to the right people um and involving not only just stakeholders in the us but um internationally as well you know and as entrepreneurs um you know we have this very lofty vision or goal uh to change the world and um oftentimes um you know entrepreneurs including myself you know we put our heads down and we just run as fast as we can and we don't necessarily always kind of take a breath and take a step back and kind of look at what we're doing and how it's touching um you know other folks and in terms of a community i don't know of any formal community out there it's mostly ad hoc and you know these ad hoc communities are folks who let's say have you know was was a student working on a satellite um you know in college and they love that entrepreneurial spirit and so they said well i'm gonna start my own company and so you know a lot of the these ad hoc networks are just from relationships um that are that have been built over the last two decades um you know from from colleagues that you know at the university um i do think formalizing this and creating um kind of a you know clearinghouse to to handle all of this is incredibly important yeah um yeah there's gonna be a lot of entrepreneurial activity no doubt i mean just i mean there's too many things to work on and not enough time so i mean this brings up the question though while we're on this topic um you got the remote work with covid everyone's working remotely we're doing this remote um interview rather than being on stage works changing how people work and engage certainly physical will come back but if you looked at historically the space industry and the talent you know they're all clustered around the bases and there's always been these areas where you're you're a space person you're kind of working there and there's jobs there and if you were cyber you were 10 in other areas over the past decade there's been a cross-pollination of talent and location as you see the intersection of space general start with you you know first of all central coast is a great place to live i know that's where you guys live but you can start to bring together these two cultures sometimes they're you know not the same maybe they're getting better we know they're being integrated so general can you just share your thoughts because this is uh one of those topics that everyone's talking about but no one's actually kind of addressed directly um yeah john i i think so i think i want to answer this by talking about where i think the space force is going because i think if there was ever an opportunity or inflection point in our department of defense to sort of change culture and and try to bring in non-traditional kinds of thinking and and really kind of change uh maybe uh some of the ways that the department of defense has does things that are probably archaic space force is an inflection point for that uh general raymond our our chief of space operations has said publicly for a while now he wants the us space force to be the first truly digital service and uh you know what we what we mean by that is you know we want the folks that are in the space force to be the ones that are the first adopters or the early adopters of of technology um to be the ones most fluent in the cutting edge technological developments on space and cyber and and other um other sectors of the of of the of the economy that are technologically focused uh and i think there's some can that can generate some excitement i think and it means that we probably end up recruiting people into the space force that are not from the traditional recruiting areas that the rest of the department of defense looks to and i think it allows us to bring in a diversity of thought and diversity of perspective and a new kind of motivation um into the service that i think is frankly is is really exciting so if you put together everything i mentioned about how space and cyber are going to be best friends forever and i think there's always been an excitement in them you know from the very beginning in the american psyche about space you start to put all these ingredients together and i think you see where i'm going with this that really changed that cultural uh mindset that you were describing it's an exciting time for sure and again changing the world and this is what you're seeing today people do want to change world they want a modern world that's changing roy look at your thoughts on this i was having an interview a few years back with a tech entrepreneur um techie and we were joking we were just kind of riffing and we and i said everything that's on star trek will be invented and we're almost there actually if you think about it except for the transporter room you got video you got communicators so you know not to bring in the star trek reference with space force this is digital and you start thinking about some of the important trends it's going to be up and down the stack from hardware to software to user experience everything your thoughts and reaction yeah abs absolutely and so you know what we're seeing is um timeline timelines shrinking dramatically um because of the barrier to entry for you know um new entrants and you know even your existing aerospace companies is incredibly low right so if you take um previously where you had a technology on the ground and you wanted it in orbit it would take years because you would test it on the ground you would verify that it can operate in space in a space environment and then you would go ahead and launch it and you know we're talking tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars to do that now um we've cut that down from years to months when you have a prototype on the ground and you want to get it launched you don't necessarily care if it fails on orbit the first time because you're getting valuable data back and so you know we're seeing technology being developed you know for the first time on the ground and in orbit in a matter of a few months um and the whole kind of process um you know that that we're doing as a small business is you know trying to enable that and so allowing these entrepreneurs and small small companies to to get their technology in orbit at a price that is sometimes even cheaper than you know testing on the ground you know this is a great point i think this is really an important point to call out because we mentioned partnerships earlier the economics and the business model of space is doable i mean you do a mission study you get paid for that you have technology you can get stuff up up quickly and there's a cost structure there and again the alternative was waterfall planning years and millions now the form factors are different now again there may be different payloads involved but you can standardize payloads you got robotic arms all this is all available this brings up the congestion problem this is going to be on the top of mind the generals of course but you got the proliferation okay of these constellation systems you have more and more tech vectors i mean essentially that's malware i mean that's a probe you throw something up in space that could cause some interference maybe a takeover general this is the this is the real elephant in the room the threat matrix from new stuff and new configurations so general how does the proliferation of constellation systems change the threat matrix so i i think the uh you know i guess i'm gonna i'm gonna be a little more optimistic john than i think you pitched that i'm actually excited about these uh new mega constellations in leo um i'm excited about the the growing number of actors that are that are going into space for various reasons and why is that it's because we're starting to realize a new economic engine uh for the nation and for human society so the question is so so i think we want that to happen right when uh um when uh we could go to almost any any other domain in history and and and you know there when when air traffic air air travel started to become much much more commonplace with many kinds of uh actors from from private pilots flying their small planes all the way up to large airliners uh you know there there was a problem with congestion there was a problem about um challenges about uh behavior and are we gonna be able to manage this and yes we did and it was for the great benefit of society i could probably look to the maritime domain for similar kinds of things and so this is actually exciting about space we are just going to have to find the ways as a society and it's not just the department of defense it's going to be civil it's going to be international find the mechanisms to encourage this continued investment in the space domain i do think the space force uh will play a role in in providing security in the space environment as we venture further out as as economic opportunities emerge uh wherever they are um in the in the lunar earth lunar system or even within the solar system space force is going to play a role in that but i'm actually really excited about the those possibilities hey by the way i got to say you made me think of this when you talked about star trek and and and space force and our technologies i remember when i was younger watching the the next generation series i thought one of the coolest things because being a musician in my in my spare time i thought one of the coolest things was when um commander riker would walk into his quarters and and say computer play soft jazz and there would just be the computer would just play music you know and this was an age when you know we had we had hard uh um uh media right like how will that that is awesome man i can't wait for the 23rd century when i can do that and where we are today is is so incredible on those lines the things that i can ask alexa or siri to play um well that's the thing everything that's on star trek think about it almost invented i mean you got the computers you got the only thing really is the holograms are starting to come in you got now the transporter room now that's physics we'll work on that right right so there's a there is this uh a balance between physics and imagination but uh we have not exhausted either well um personally everyone that knows me knows i'm a huge star trek fan all the series of course i'm an original purist but at that level but this is about economic incentive as well roland i want to get your thoughts because you know the gloom and doom you got to think about the the bad stuff to make it good if i if i put my glass half full on the table there's economic incentives just like the example of the plane and the air traffic there's there's actors that are more actors that are incented to have a secure system what's your thoughts to general's comments around the optimism and and the potential threat matrix that needs to be managed absolutely so and you know one of the things that we've seen over the years um as you know we build these small satellites is a lot of the technology you know that the general is talking about um you know voice recognition miniaturized chips and sensors um started on the ground and i mean you know you have you know your iphone um that about 15 years ago before the first iphone came out um you know we were building small satellites in the lab and we were looking at cutting-edge state-of-the-art magnetometers and sensors um that we were putting in our satellites back then we didn't know if they were going to work and then um a few years later as these students graduate they go off and they go out to under you know other industries and so um some of the technology that was first kind of put in these cubesats in the early 2000s you know kind of ended up in the first generation iphone smartphones um and so being able to take that technology rapidly you know incorporate that into space and vice versa gives you an incredible economic advantage because um not only are your costs going down um because you know you're mass producing you know these types of terrestrial technologies um but then you can also um you know increase you know revenue and profit um you know by by having you know smaller and cheaper systems general let's talk about that for real quickly it's a good point i want to just shift it into the playbook i mean everyone talks about playbooks for management for tech for startups for success i mean one of the playbooks that's clear from in history is investment in r d around military and or innovation that has a long view spurs innovation commercially i mean just there's a huge many decades of history that shows that hey we got to start thinking about these these challenges and you know next you know it's in an iphone this is history this is not like a one-off and now with space force you get you're driving you're driving the main engine of innovation to be all digital you know we we riff about star trek which is fun but the reality is you're going to be on the front lines of some really new cool mind-blowing things could you share your thoughts on how you sell that people who write the checks or recruit more talent well so i first i totally agree with your thesis that the that you know national security well could probably go back an awful long way hundreds to thousands of years that security matters tend to drive an awful lot of innovation and creativity because um you know i think the the probably the two things that drive drive people the most are probably an opportunity to make money uh but only by beating that out are trying to stay alive um and uh and so i don't think that's going to go away and i do think that space force can play a role um as it pursues uh security uh structures you know within the space domain to further encourage economic investment and to protect our space capabilities for national security purposes are going to be at the cutting edge this isn't the first time um i think we can point back to the origins of the internet really started in the department of defense and with a partnership i should add with academia that's how the internet got started that was the creativity in order to to meet some needs there cryptography has its roots in security but we use it uh in in national security but now we use it in for economic reasons and meant and a host of other kinds of reasons and then space itself right i mean we still look back to uh apollo era as an inspiration for so many things that inspired people to to either begin careers in in technical areas or in space and and so on so i think i think in that same spirit you're absolutely right i guess i'm totally agreeing with your thesis the space force uh will be and a uh will have a positive inspirational influence in that way and we need to to realize that so when we are asking for when we're looking for how we need to meet capability needs we need to spread that net very far look for the most creative solutions and partner early and often with those that that can that can work on those when you're on the new frontier you've got to have a team sport it's a team effort you mentioned the internet just anecdotally i'm old enough to remember this because i remember the days that was going on and said the government if the policy decisions that the u.s made at that time was to let it go a little bit invisible hand they didn't try to commercialize it too fast and but there was some policy work that was done that had a direct effect to the innovation versus take it over and next you know it's out of control so i think you know i think this this just a cross-disciplinary skill set becomes a big thing where you need to have more people involved and that's one of the big themes of this symposium so it's a great point thank you for sharing that roland your thoughts on this because you know you got policy decisions we all want to run faster we want to be more innovative but you got to have some ops view now mostly ops people want things very tight very buttoned up secure the innovators want to go faster it's the yin and yang that's that's the world we live in how's it all balanced in your mind yeah um you know one of the things um that may not be apparently obvious is that you know the us government and department of um of defense is one of the biggest investors in technology in the aerospace sector um you know they're not the traditional venture capitalists but they're the ones that are driving technology innovation because there's funding um you know and when companies see that the us governments is interested in something businesses will will re-vector um you know to provide that capability and in the i would say the more recent years we've had a huge influx of private equity venture capital um coming into the markets to kind of help augment um you know the government investment and i think having a good partnership and a relationship with these private equity venture capitalists and the us government is incredibly important because the two sides you know can can help collaborate and kind of see a common goal but then also too on um you know the other side is you know there's that human element um and as general shaw was saying it's like not you know not only do companies you know obviously want to thrive and do really well some companies just want to stay alive um to see their technology kind of you know grow into what they've always dreamed of and you know oftentimes entrepreneurs um are put in a very difficult position because they have to make payroll they have to you know keep the lights on and so sometimes they'll take investment um from places where they may normally would not have you know from potentially foreign investment that could potentially you know cause issues with you know the you know the us supply chain well my final question is the best i wanted to say for last because i love the idea of human space flight i'd love to be on mars i'm not sure i'll be able to make it someday but how do you guys see the possible impacts of cyber security on expanding human space flight operations i mean general this is your wheelhouse this is urine command putting humans in space and certainly robots will be there because they're easy to go because they're not human but humans in space i mean you're starting to see the momentum the discussion uh people are are scratching that itch what's your take on that how do we see making this more possible well i i think we will see we will see uh commercial space tourism uh in the future i'm not sure how wide and large a scale it will become but we'll we will see that and um part of uh i think the mission of the space force is going to be probably to again do what we're doing today is have really good awareness of what's going on the domain to uh to to to ensure that that is done safely and i think a lot of what we do today will end up in civil organizations to do space traffic management and safety uh in in that uh arena um and uh um it is only a matter of time uh before we see um humans going even beyond the you know nasa has their plan the the artemis program to get back to the moon and the gateway initiative to establish a a space station there and that's going to be an exploration initiative but it is only a matter of time before we have um private citizens or private corporations putting people in space and not only for tourism but for economic activity and so it'll be really exciting to watch it would be really exciting and space force will be a part of it general roland i want to thank you for your valuable time to come on this symposium i really appreciate it final uh comment i'd love to you to spend a minute to share your personal thoughts on the importance of cyber security to space and we'll close it out we'll start with you roland yeah so i think that the biggest thing um i would like to try to get out of this you know from my own personal perspective is um creating that environment that allows um you know the the aerospace supply chain small businesses you know like ourselves be able to meet all the requirements um to protect um and safeguard our data but also um create a way that you know we can still thrive and it won't stifle innovation um you know i'm looking forward um to comments and questions um you know from the audience um to really kind of help um you know you know basically drive to that next step general final thoughts the importance of cyber security to space i'll just i'll go back to how i started i think john and say that space and cyber are forever intertwined they're bffs and whoever has my job 50 years from now or 100 years from now i predict they're going to be saying the exact same thing cyber and space are are intertwined for good we will always need the cutting edge cyber security capabilities that we develop as a nation or as a as a society to protect our space capabilities and our cyber capabilities are going to need space capabilities in the future as well general john shaw thank you very much roland cleo thank you very much for your great insight thank you to cal poly for putting this together i want to shout out to the team over there we couldn't be in person but we're doing a virtual remote event i'm john furrier with thecube and siliconangle here in silicon valley thanks for watching

from around the globe it's thecube covering space and cyber security symposium 2020 hosted by cal poly hello everyone welcome to the space and cyber security symposium 2020 hosted by cal poly where the intersection of space and security are coming together i'm john furrier your host with thecube here in california i want to welcome our featured guest lieutenant general john f thompson with the united states space force approach to cyber security that's the topic of this session and of course he's the commander of the space and missile system center in los angeles air force base also heading up space force general thank you for coming on really appreciate you kicking this off welcome to the symposium hey so uh thank you very much john for that very kind introduction also uh very much thank you to cal poly uh for this opportunity to speak to this audience today also a special shout out to one of the organizers uh dustin brun for all of his work uh helping uh get us uh to this point uh ladies and gentlemen as uh as uh john mentioned uh i'm jt thompson uh i lead the 6 000 men and women of the united states space forces space and missile system center which is headquartered here at los angeles air force base in el segundo if you're not quite sure where that's at it's about a mile and a half from lax this is our main operating location but we do have a number of other operating locations around the country with about 500 people at kirtland air force base in albuquerque new mexico uh and about another 500 people on the front range of the rockies uh between colorado springs and uh and denver plus a smattering of other much smaller operating locations nationwide uh we're responsible for uh acquiring developing and sustaining the united states space force's critical space assets that includes the satellites in the space layer and also on the ground layer our ground segments to operate those satellites and we also are in charge of procuring launch services for the u.s space force and a number of our critical mission partners across the uh department of defense and the intelligence community um just as a couple of examples of some of the things we do if you're unfamiliar with our work we developed and currently sustained the 31 satellite gps constellation that satellite constellation while originally intended to help with global navigation those gps signals have provided trillions of dollars in unanticipated value to the global economy uh over the past three decades i mean gps is everywhere i think everybody realizes that agriculture banking the stock market the airline industry uh separate and distinct navigation systems it's really pervasive across both the capabilities for our department of defense and capabilities for our economy and and individuals billions of individuals across our country and the planet some of the other work we do for instance in the communications sector uh secure communications satellites that we design and build that link america's sons and daughters serving in the military around the world and really enable real-time support and comms for our deployed forces and those of our allies we also acquire uh infrared missile warning satellites uh that monitor the planet for missile launches and provide advanced warning uh to the u.s homeland and to our allies uh in case some of those missile launches are uh nefarious um on a note that's probably a lot closer to home maybe a lot closer to home than many of us want to think about here in the state of california in 2018 smc jumped through a bunch of red tape and bureaucracy uh to partner with the u.s forest service during the two of the largest wildfires in the state's history the camp and woolsey fires in northern california as those fires spread out of control we created processes on the fly to share data from our missile warning satellites those are satellites that are systems that are purpose built to see heat sources from thousands of miles above the planet and we collaborated with the us forest service so that firefighters on the ground uh could track those fires more in real time and better forecast fires and where they were spreading thereby saving lives and and property by identifying hot spots and flare-ups for firefighters that data that we were able to working with our contractors pass to the u.s forest service and authorities here in california was passed in less than an hour as it was collected to get it into the hands of the emergency responders the first responders as quickly as possible and doing that in an hour greatly surpassed what was available from some of the other assets in the airborne and ground-based fire spotters it was really instrumental in fighting those fires and stopping their spread we've continued uh that involvement in recent years using multiple systems to support firefighters across the western u.s this fall as they battled numerous wildfires that unfortunately continue working together with the u.s forest service and with other partners uh we like to make uh we like to think that we made a difference here but there's still a lot more work to go and i think that we should always be asking ourselves uh what else can space data be used for and how can we more rapidly get that space data to uh stakeholders so that they can use it for for purposes of good if you will how else can we protect our nation how else can we protect our friends and allies um i think a major component of the of the discussion that we will have throughout this conference is that the space landscape has changed rapidly and continues to change rapidly um just over the past few years uh john and i were talking before we went live here and 80 nations now have uh space programs 80 nearly 80 space faring nations on the planet um if you just look at one mission area that uh the department of defense is interested in and that's small launch there are currently over a hundred different small launch companies uh within the u.s industrial base vying for commercial dod and civil uh payload capabilities uh mostly to low earth orbit it's it's just truly a remarkable time if you factor in those things like artificial intelligence and machine learning um where we're revolutionary revolutionizing really uh the ways that we generate process and use data i mean it's really remarkable in 2016 so if you think about this four years ago uh nasa estimated that there were 28 terabytes of information transiting their space network each day and that was four years ago um uh obviously we've got a lot of desire to work with a lot of the people in the audience of this congress or in this conference uh we need to work with big thinkers like many of you to answer questions on how best we apply data analytics to extract value and meaning from that data we need new generations of thinkers to help apply cutting edge edge theories of data mining cyber behaviorism and internet of things 2.0 it's just truly a remarkable time uh to be in the space business and the cyber aspects of the states of the space business are truly truly daunting and important to uh to all of us um integrating cyber security into our space systems both commercial and government is a mandate um it's no longer just a nice to have as the us space force and department of the air force leadership has said many times over the past couple of years space is becoming congested and contested and that contested aspect means that we've got to focus on cyber security uh in the same way that the banking industry and cyber commerce focus on uh cyber security day in and day out the value of the data and services provided is really directly tied to the integrity and availability of that data and services from the space layer from the ground control segments associated with it and this value is not just military it's also economic and it's not just american it's also a value for the entire world particularly particularly our allies as we all depend upon space and space systems your neighbors and friends here in california that are employed at the space and missile system center uh work with network defenders we work with our commercial contractors and our systems developers um our international allies and partners to try and build as secure and resilient systems as we can from the ground up that keep the global commons of space free and open for exploration and for commerce um as john and i were talking earlier before we came online there's an aspect of cyber security for space systems especially for some of our legacy systems that's more how do we bolt this on because we fielded those space systems a number of years ago and the the challenges of cyber security in the space domain have grown so we have a part that we have to worry about bolting it on but then we have to worry about building it in as we as we field new systems and build in a flexibility that that realizes that the cyber threat or the cyber security landscape will evolve over time it's not just going to be stagnant there will always be new vulnerabilities and new threat vectors that we always have to look at look uh as secretary barrett who is our secretary of the air force likes to say most americans use space before they have their first cup of coffee in the morning the american way of life really depends on space and as part of the united states space force we work with defense leaders our congress joint and international military teammates and industry to ensure american leadership in space i really thank you for this opportunity to address the audience today john and thanks so much to cal poly for letting me be one of the speakers at this event i really look forward to this for uh several months and so with that i look forward to your questions as we kind of move along here general thank you very much for the awesome uh introductory statement uh for the folks watching on the stream brigadier general carthan is going to be in the chat answering any questions feel free to chat away he's the vice commander of space and missile systems center he'll be available um a couple comments from your keynote before i get to my questions because it just jumped in my head you mentioned the benefits of say space but the fires in california we're living that here that's really real time that's a benefit you also mentioned the ability for more people launching payloads into space and i only imagine moore's law smaller faster cheaper applies to rockets too so i'm imagining you have the benefits of space and you have now more potential objects flying out sanctioned and maybe unsanctioned so you know is it going to be more rules around that i mean this is an interesting question because it's exciting space force but for all the good there is potentially bad out there yeah so i i john i think the uh i think the basics of your question is as space becomes more congested and contested is there a need for more international norms of how satellites fly in space what kind of basic features satellites have to perhaps deorbit themselves what kind of basic protections does do all satellites should all satellites be afforded as part of a peaceful global commons of space i think those are all fantastic questions and i know that u.s and many uh allied policy makers are looking very very hard at those kinds of questions in terms of what are the norms of behavior and how we uh you know how how we field and field is the military term but you know how we uh populate uh using civil or uh commercial terms uh that space layer at different altitudes uh low earth orbit mid mid-earth orbit geosynchronous earth orbit different kinds of orbits uh what the kind of mission areas we accomplish from space that's all things that need to be definitely taken into account as uh as the place gets a little bit not a little bit as the place gets increasingly more popular day in and day out well i'm super excited for space force i know that a new generation of young folks are really interested in it's an emerging changing great space the focus here at this conference is space and cyber security intersection i'd like to get your thoughts on the approach that space force is taking to cyber security and how it impacts our national goals here in the united states yeah yeah so that's a that's a great question john let me let me talk about in two uh two basic ways but number one is and and i know um some people in the audience this might make them a little bit uncomfortable but i have to talk about the threat right um and then relative to that threat i really have to talk about the importance of uh of cyber and specifically cyber security as it relates to that threat um the threats that we face um really represent a new era of warfare and that new era of warfare involves both space and cyber uh we've seen a lot of action in recent months uh from certain countries notably china and russia uh that have threatened what i referred to earlier as the peaceful global commons of space for example uh it through many unclassified sources and media sources everybody should understand that um uh the russians have been testing on orbit uh anti-satellite capabilities it's been very clear if you were following just the week before last the department of defense released its uh 2020 military and security developments involving the people's republic of china um uh and uh it was very clear that china is developing asats electronic jammers directed energy weapons and most relevant to today's discussion offensive cyber uh capabilities there are kinetic threats uh that are very very easy to see but a cyber attack against a critical uh command and control site or against a particular spacecraft could be just as devastating to the system and our war fighters in the case of gps and important to note that that gps system also impacts many civilians who are dependent upon those systems from a first response perspective and emergency services a cyber attack against a ground control site could cause operators to lose control of a spacecraft or an attacker could feed spoofed data to a system to mislead operators so that they send emergency services personnel to the to the wrong address right attacks on spacecraft on orbit whether directly via a network of intrusion or enabled through malware introduced during the systems production uh while we're building the satellite can [ __ ] or corrupt the data denial of service type attacks on our global networks obviously would disrupt our data flow and interfere with ongoing operations and satellite control i mean if gps went down i you know i hesitate to say it this way because we might elicit some screams from the audience but if gps went down a starbucks wouldn't be able to handle your mobile order uber drivers wouldn't be able to find you and domino's certainly certainly wouldn't be able to get there in 30 minutes or less right so with a little bit of tongue-in-cheek there from a military operations perspective it's dead serious um uh we have become accustomed in the commercial world to threats like lance ransomware and malware and those things have unfortunately become commonplace in commercial terrestrial networks and computer systems however what we're seeing is that our adversaries with the increased competition in space these same techniques are being retooled if you will to use against our national security space systems uh day in and day out um as i said during my opening remarks on the importance of cyber the value of these systems is directly tied to their integrity if commanders in the field uh firefighters in california or baristas in in starbucks can't trust the data they see they're receiving then that really harms their decision-making capabilities one of the big trends we've recently seen is the mood move towards proliferated leo uh uh constellations obviously uh spacex's uh starlink uh on the commercial side and on the military side the work that darpa and my organization smc are doing on blackjack and casino as well as some space transport layer constellation work that the space development agency is designing are all really really important types of mesh network systems that will revolutionize how we plan and field warfighting systems and commercial communications and internet providing systems but they're also heavily reliant on cyber security uh we've got to make sure that they are secured to avoid an accident or international damage uh loss of control of these constellations really could be catastrophic from both a mission perspective or from uh you know satellites tumbling out of low earth orbit perspective another trend is introductions in artificial intelligence and machine learning on board spacecraft or at the edge our satellites are really not so much hardware systems with a little software anymore in the commercial sector and in the defense sector they're basically flying boxes full of software right and we need to ensure the data that we're getting out of those flying boxes full of software are helping us base our decisions on accurate data and algorithms govern governing the right actions and that those uh that those systems are impervious to the extent possible uh to nefarious uh modifications so in summation a cyber security is vital element of everything in our national security space goals and i would argue for our national uh goals uh writ large including uh economic and information uh uh dimensions uh the space force leadership at all levels uh from uh some of the brand new second lieutenants that general raymond uh swore into the space force this morning uh ceremonially from the uh air force association's air space and cyberspace conference uh to the various highest levels general raymond uh general d t thompson myself and a number of other senior leaders in this enterprise we've got to make sure that we're all working together to keep cyber security at the forefront of our space systems because it they absolutely depend on it you know you mentioned uh hardware software threats opportunities challenges i want to ask you because you you got me thinking of the minute there around infrastructure i mean we've heard critical infrastructure you know grids here on on earth you're talking about critical infrastructure a redefinition of what critical infrastructure is an extension of what we have so i'd love to get your thoughts about space force's view of that critical infrastructure vis-a-vis the threat vectors because you know the term threat vectors has been kicked around in the cyber space oh yeah threat vectors they're always increasing the surface area well if the surface area is from space it's an unlimited surface area so you got different vectors so you got new critical infrastructure developing real time really fast and you got an expanded threat vector landscape putting that in perspective for the folks that aren't really inside the ropes on these critical issues how would you explain this and how would you talk about those two things well so i tell you um i just like um uh just like uh i'm sure people in the security side or the cyber security side of the business in the banking industry feel they feel like it's uh all possible threat vectors represent a dramatic and protect potentially existential threat to all of the dollars that they have in the banking system to the financial sector on the department of defense side we've got to have sort of the same mindset um that threat vector from to and through space against critical space systems ground segments the launch enterprise or transportation uh to orbit and the various different uh domains within uh within space itself like i mentioned before uh leo mio and geo-based satellites with different orbits all of the different mission areas that are accomplished from space that i mentioned earlier some that i didn't mention like weather tactical or wide band communications uh various new features of space control all of those are things that we have to worry about from a cyber security uh threat perspective and it's a it's a daunting challenge right now right yeah it's awesome and one of the things we've been following on the hardware side here in the on the ground is the supply chain we've seen you know malware being you know really put into really obscure hardware who manufactures it as being outsourced obviously government has restrictions but with the private sector uh you mentioned china and and the us kind of working together across these these peaceful areas but you got to look at the supply chain how does the supply chain the security aspect impact the mission of the u.s space force yeah yeah so so um how about another um just in terms of an example another kind of california-based historical example right um the very first u.s satellite uh explorer one was built by uh the jet propulsion uh laboratory folks uh not far from here in el segundo up in uh up in pasadena um that satellite when it was first built in the late 50s uh weighed a little bit over 30 pounds and i'm sure that each and every part was custom made and definitely made by u.s companies fast forward to today the global supply chain is so tightly coupled and frankly many industries are so specialized almost specialized regionally around the planet we focus every day to guarantee the integrity of every component that we put in our space systems is absolutely critical to the operations of those satellites and we're dependent upon them but it becomes more difficult and more difficult to understand the the heritage if you will of some of the parts that are used the thousands of parts that are used in some of our satellites that are literally school bus sized right the space industry especially uh national security space sector um uh is relatively small compared to other commercial industries and we're moving to towards using more and more parts uh from non-us companies uh cyber security and cyber awareness have to be baked in from the beginning if we're going to be using parts that maybe we don't necessarily um understand 100 percent like an explorer one uh the the lineage of that particular part the environmental difficulties in space are well known the radiation environment the temperature extremes the vacuum those require specialized component and the us military is not the only uh customer in that space in fact we're definitely not the dominant customer uh in space anymore all those factors require us along with our other government partners and many different commercial space organizations to keep a very close eye on our supply chains from a quality perspective a security perspective and availability um there's open source reporting on supply training intrusions from um many different breaches of commercial retailers to the infectious spread of uh you know compromised patches if you will and our adversaries are aware of these techniques as i mentioned earlier with other forms of attack considering our supply chains and development networks really becomes fair game for our adversaries so we have to uh take that threat seriously um between the government and industry sectors here in the u.s we're also working with our industry partners to enact stronger defenses and assess our own vulnerabilities last fall we completed an extensive review of all of our major contracts here at space and missile system center to determine the levels of cyber security requirements we've implemented across our portfolio and it sounds really kind of you know businessy geeky if you will you know hey we looked at our contracts to make sure that we had the right clauses in our contracts to address cyber security as dynamically as we possibly could and so we found ourselves having to add new language to our contracts to require system developers to implement some more advanced uh protective measures in this evolving cyber security environment so that data handling and supply chain perspective uh protections um from contract inception to launch and operations were taken into account uh cyber security really is a key performance parameter for us now it's as important as the the mission performance of the system it's as important as cost it's as important as schedule because if we deliver the perfect system on time and on cost uh it can perform that missile warning or that communications mis mission perfectly but it's not cyber secure if it doesn't have cyber protections built into it or the ability to implement mitigations against cyber uh threats then we've essentially fielded a shoe box in space that doesn't do the k the the war fighter or the nation uh any good um supply chain risk management is a is a major challenge for us uh we're doing a lot to coordinate with our industry partners uh we're all facing it head on uh to try and build secure and trusted components uh that keep our confidence as leaders firefighters and baristas uh as the case may be uh but it is a challenge and we're trying to rise to that challenge you know this so exciting this new area because it really touches everything you know talk about geeking out on on the tech the hardware the systems but also you put your kind of mba hat on you go what's the roi of the extra development and how you how things get built because the always the exciting thing for space geeks is like you're building cool stuff people love it's it's exciting but you still have to build and cyber security has proven that security has to be baked in from the beginning and be thought as a system architecture so you're still building things which means you've got to acquire things you got to acquire parts you got to acquire build software and and sustain it how is security impacting the acquisition and the sustainment of these systems for space yeah from initial development uh through planning for the acquisition design development fielding or production fielding and sustainment it impacts all aspects of of the life cycle john uh we simply especially from the concept of baking in cyber security uh we can't wait until something is built and then try and figure out how to make it cyber secure so we've moved way further uh towards working side by side with our system developers to strengthen cyber security from the very beginning of a system's development cyber security and the resilience associated with it really have to be treated as a key system attribute as i mentioned earlier equivalent with data rates or other metrics of performance we like to talk in uh in the space world about uh mission assurance and mission assurance has always you know sort of taken us as we as we technically geek out right mission assurance has always taken us to the will this system work in space right can it work in a vacuum can it work in you know as it as it uh you know transfers through uh the van allen radiation belt or through the the um the southern hemisphere's electromagnetic anomaly right will it work out in space and now from a resiliency perspective yeah it has to work in space it's got to be functional in space but it's also got to be resistant to these cyber security threats it's it's not just i think uh general dt thompson quoted this term it's not just widget assurance anymore it's mission assurance um uh how does that satellite uh operator that ground control segment operate while under attack so let me break your question a little bit uh just for purposes of discussion into into really two parts uh cyber uh for cyber security for systems that are new and cyber security uh for systems that are in sustainment or kind of old and legacy um obviously there's cyber vulnerabilities that threaten both and we really have to employ different strategies for for defense of of each one for new systems uh we're desperately trying to implement across the department of defense in particular in the space world a kind of a devsecops methodology and practice to delivering software faster and with greater security for our space systems here at smc we have a program called enterprise ground services which is a tool kit basically a collection of tools for common command and control of different satellite systems egs as we call it has an integrated suite for defensive cyber capabilities network operators can use these tools to gain unprecedented insight to data flows and to monitor space network traffic for anomalies or other potential indicators of of bad behavior malicious behavior if you will um uh it's rudimentary at this point but because we're using devsecops and that incremental development approach as we scale it it just becomes more and more capable you know every every product increment that we field here at uh at uh la air force base uh uh we have the united space space forces west coast software factory which we've dubbed kobayashi maru they're using those agile devops uh software development practices uh to deliver uh space awareness software uh to the combined space operations center uh affectionately called the csp that c-spock is just down the road uh from cal poly uh there in san luis obispo at vandenberg air force base they've securely linked the c-spock with other space operation centers around the planet our allies australia canada and the uk uh we're partnering with all of them to enable secure and enhanced combined space operations so lots of new stuff going on as we bake in new development uh capabilities for our our space systems but as i mentioned earlier we've got large constellations on satellite of satellites on orbit right now some of them are well in excess of a decade or more old on orbit and so the design aspects of those satellites are several decades old and so but we still have to worry about them because they're critical to our space capabilities um we've been working with an air force materiel command organization uh called crows which stands for the cyber resiliency office for uh weapon systems to assess all of those legacy platforms from a cyber security perspective and develop defensive strategies and potential hardware and software upgrades to those systems to better enable them to to live through this increasingly cyber security uh concerned era that we currently live in our industry partners have been critical to to both of those different avenues both new systems and legacy systems we're working closely with them to defend and upgrade uh national assets and develop the capabilities to do similar with uh with new national assets coming online the vulnerabilities of our space systems really kind of threaten the way we've done business in the past both militarily and in the case of gps economically the impacts of that cyber security risk are clear in our acquisition and sustainment processes but i've got to tell you it that as the threat vectors change as the vulnerabilities change we've got to be nimble enough agile enough to be able to bounce back and forth we can't just say uh many people in the audience are probably familiar with the rmf or the risk management framework approach to um to reviewing uh the cyber security of a system we can't have program managers and engineers just accomplish an rmf on a system and then hey high five we're all good uh it's a journey not a destination that's cyber security and it's a constant battle rhythm throughout a weapon systems life cycle not just a single event i want to get to this commercial business needs and your needs on the next question but before i go there you mentioned the agile and i see that clearly because when you have accelerated innovation cycles you've got to be faster and we saw this in the computer industry mainframes mini computers and then when you started getting beyond me when the internet hit and pcs came out you saw the big enterprises the banks and and government start to work with startups it used to be a joke in the entrepreneurial circles is that you know there's no way if you're a startup you're ever going to get a contract with a big business enterprise now that used to be for public sector and certainly uh for you guys so as you see startups out there and there's acquisition involved i'm sure would love to love to have a contract with space force there's an roi calculation where if it's in space and you have a sustainment view edit software you might have a new kind of business model that could be attractive to startups could you share your thoughts on the folks who want to be a supplier to you uh whether they're a startup or an existing business that wants to be agile but they might not be that big company we are john that's a fantastic question we are desperately trying to reach out to to those new space advocates to those startups to those um what we sometimes refer to within the department of defense those non-traditional uh defense contractors a couple of things just for uh thinking purposes on some of the things that we're trying to highlight um uh three years ago we created here at uh space and missile system center uh the space enterprise consortium uh to provide a platform uh a contractual vehicle really to enable us to rapidly prototype uh development of space systems and to collaborate uh between the u.s space force uh traditional defense contractors non-traditional vendors like startups and even some academic institutions uh spec as we call it space enterprise consortium uses a specialized contracting tool to get contracts uh awarded quickly many in the audience may be familiar with other transaction agreements and that's what spec is based on and so far in just three years spec has awarded 75 different uh prototyping contracts worth over 800 million dollars with a 36 reduction in time to award and because it's a consortium based competition for um for these kinds of prototyping efforts the barrier to entry for small and non-traditional for startups even for academic institutions to be able to compete for these kinds of prototypings is really lowered right um uh these types of partnerships uh that we've been working through on spec uh have really helped us work with smaller companies who might not have the background or expertise in dealing with the government or in working with cyber security uh for their systems both their developmental systems and the systems that they're designing and trying to build we want to provide ways for companies large and small to partner together and support um uh kind of mutually beneficial uh relationships between all um recently uh at the annual air force association uh conference that i mentioned earlier i moderated a panel with several space industry leaders uh all from big traditional defense contractors by the way and they all stressed the importance of building bridges and partnerships uh between major contractors in the defense industry and new entrants uh and that helps us capture the benefits of speed and agility that come with small companies and startups as well as the expertise and specialized skill sets of some of those uh larger contractors uh that we rely on day in and day out advanced cyber security protections and utilization of secure facilities are just a couple of things that i think we could be prioritizing more so in those collaborations as i mentioned earlier the spec has been very successful in awarding a number of different prototyping contracts and large dollar values and it's just going to get better right there's over 400 members of the space enterprise consortium 80 of them are non-traditional kinds of vendors and we just love working with them another thing that many people in the audience may be familiar with in terms of our outreach to innovators uh if you will and innovators that include uh cyber security experts is our space pitch day events right so we held our first event last november in san francisco uh where we awarded over a two-day period about 46 million dollars to 30 different companies um that had potentially game-changing ideas these were phase two small business innovative research efforts uh that we awarded with cash on the spot uh we're planning on holding our second space pitch day in the spring of 2021. uh we're planning on doing it right here in los angeles uh covent 19 environment permitting um and we think that these are you know fantastic uh uh venues for identifying and working with high-speed startups startups and small businesses who are interested in uh really truly partnering with the us air force it's a as i said before it's a really exciting time to be a part of this business uh and working with the innovation economy uh is something that the department of defense uh really needs to do in that um the innovation that we used to think was ours you know that 80 percent of the industrial-based innovation that came from the department of defense uh the the script has been flipped there and so now more than 70 percent uh particularly in space innovation uh comes from the commercial sector not from uh not from the defense business itself and so um that's a tsunami of uh investment and a tsunami of uh capability and i need to figure out how to get my surfboard out and ride it you know what i mean yeah i mean it's one of those things where the flip the script has been flipped but it's exciting because it's impacting everything are you talking about systems architecture you're talking about software you're talking about a business model you talk about devsecops from a technical perspective but now you have a business model innovation all the theaters of uh are exploding in innovation technical business personnel this brings up the workforce challenge you've got the cyber needs for the u.s space force there's probably a great roi model for new kinds of software development that could be priced into contracts that's a entrepreneurial innovation you got the the business model theater you've got the personnel how does the industry adopt and change you guys are clearly driving this how does the industry adjust to you yeah so um i think a great way to answer that question is to just talk about the kind of people that we're trying to prioritize in the u.s space force from a from an acquisition perspective and in this particular case from a from a cyber security perspective as i mentioned earlier it's the most exciting time to be in space programs uh really since the days of apollo um uh you know just to put it in terms that you know maybe have an impact with the audience uh from 1957 until today approximately 9 000 satellites uh have been launched from the various space faring countries around the planet uh less than two thousand of those nine thousand are still up on orbit and operational and yet in the new space regime um players like spacex have plans to launch you know 12 000 satellites for some of their constellations alone it really is a remarkable time in terms of innovation and fielding of space capabilities and all of those space capabilities whether they're commercial civil or defense are going to require appropriate cyber security uh protections it's just a really exciting time uh to be working in stuff like this and so uh folks like the folks in this audience who have a passion about space and a passion about cyber security are just the kind of people that we want to work with because we need to make sure our systems are are secure and resilient we need folks that have technical and computing expertise engineering skills to be able to design cybersecure systems that can detect and mitigate attacks uh but we also as you alluded to we need people that have that business and um you know business acumen human networking background so that we can launch the startups and work with the non-traditional businesses uh help to bring them on board help to secure both their data and our data and uh and and make sure our processes and systems are are free as much as possible from uh uh from attack um for preparation for for audience members who are young and maybe thinking about getting into this uh trade space um you gotta be smart on digital networking uh you gotta understand basic internet protocols concepts uh programming languages uh database design uh learn what you can from penetration or vulnerability testing and and uh risk assessment i will tell you this and i don't think he will i know he will not mind me telling you this but you've got to be a lifelong learner and so two years ago i'm at home one evening and i get a phone call on my cell phone and it's my boss the commander of air force space command uh general j raymond who is now currently the chief of space operations and he is on temporary duty flying overseas he lands where he's going and he first thing he does when he lands is he calls me and he goes jt um while i was traveling um i noticed that there were e-books available on the commercial airliner i was traveling on and there was an e-book on something called scrumming and agile devsecops and i read it have you read it um and i said no sir but if you tell me what the title of the book is i will read it and so i got to go to my staff meeting um you know the very next week the next time we had a staff meeting and tell everybody in the stab meeting hey if the four star and the three star can read the book about scrumming then i'm pretty sure all of you around this table and all our lieutenants and our captains our gs13s all of our government employees can get smart on uh the scrumming development process and interestingly as another side i had a telephone call with him last year during the holidays where he was trying to take some leave and i said sir what are you up to today are you are you you know making eggnog for the event tonight or whatever and the chief of space operations told me no i'm trying to teach myself python i'm at lesson two and it's not going so well but i'm i'm gonna figure this out and so that kind of thing if the chief of staff or the you know the the the chief of space operations can prioritize scrumming and python language and innovation in his daily schedule then we're definitely looking for other people who can do that and we'll just say lower levels of rank uh throughout our entire space force enterprise um look i i we don't need to need people that can code a satellite from scratch but we need to know we need to have people that have a basic grasp of the programming basics and cyber security requirements and that can turn those things into into meaningful actions obviously in the space domain things like basic physics and orbital mechanics are also important uh space is not an intuitive uh domain so under understanding how things survive uh on orbit is really critical to making the right design and operational decisions and you know i know there's probably a lot because of this conference i know there's a probably a whole lot of high-speed cyber security experts out in the audience and i need those people in the u.s space force the the country is counting on it but i wouldn't discount having people that are just cyber aware or cyber savvy right i have contracting officers and logisticians and program managers and they don't have to be high-end cyber security experts but they have to be aware enough about it to be able to implement cyber security protections um into our space system so the skill set is is really really broad um our adversaries are pouring billions of dollars into uh define designing uh and fielding offensive and destructive space cyber security weapons right they've repeatedly shown really a blatant disregard of safety and international norms for good behavior on orbit and the cyber security aspects of our space systems is really a key battleground going forward so that we can maintain that as i mentioned before peaceful uh global commons of space we really need all hands on deck if you're interested in helping in uniform if you're interested in helping uh not in uniform uh but as a government employee a commercial or civil employee to help us make cyber security more important uh or more cape more able to be developed for our space systems then we'd really love to uh to work with you or have you on the team to build that safe and secure future for our space systems lieutenant general john thompson great insight thank you for sharing all that awesome stories too and motivation for the young next generation the united states space force approach of cyber security really amazing talk thank you for your time final parting question is as you look out and you had your magic wand what's your view for the next few years in terms of things that we could accomplish it's a super exciting time what do you hope for so um um first of all john thanks to you and and thanks to cal poly uh for the invitation and and thanks to everybody for uh for their interest in cyber security especially as it relates to space systems that's here at the conference um uh there's a quote and i'll read it here uh from uh bernard schriever who was the uh the founder if you will uh a legend in uh dod space the founder of the western development division which was a predecessor organization to space and missile systems center general shrever i think captures the essence of what how we see the next couple of years the world has an ample supply of people who can always come up with a dozen good reasons why new ideas will not work and should not be tried but the people who produce progress are breed apart they have the imagination the courage and the persistence to find solutions and so i think if you're hoping that the next few years of space innovation and cyber security innovation are going to be a pony ride at the county fair then perhaps you should look for another line of work because i think the next few years in space and cyber security innovation are going to be more like a rodeo um and a very dynamic rodeo as it goes it is a an awesome privilege to be part of this ecosystem it's really an honor for me to um to be able to play some small role uh in the space ecosystem and trying to improve it uh while i'm trying to improve the chances of uh of the united states of america in a uh in a space war fighting uh uh environment um and so i thank all of you for uh participating today and for this little bit of time that you've allowed me to share with you thank you sir thank you for your leadership and thank you for the for the time for this awesome event space and cyber security symposium 2020 i'm john furrier on behalf of cal poly thanks for watching [Music]

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube >>with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Hello and welcome back to the VM World 2020 Virtual coverage with the Cube Virtual I'm John for day. Volonte your hosts our 11th year covering VM. We'll get a great guest Greg Lavender, SBP and the CTO of VM. Where, uh, welcome to the Cube. Virtual for VM World 2020 Virtual Great. Thanks for coming on. >>Privileged to be here. Thank you. >>Um, really. You know, one of the things Dave and I were commenting with Pat on just in general start 11th year covering VM world. Uh, a little difference not face to face. But it's always been a technical conference. Always a lot of technical innovation. Project Monterey's out there. It's pretty nerdy, but it's a it's called the catnip of the future. Right? People get excited by it, right? So there's really ah lot of awareness to it because it kinda it smells like a systems overhaul. It smells like an operating system. Feels like a, you know, a lot of moving parts that are, quite frankly, what distributed computing geeks and software geeks love to hear about and to end distributed software intelligence with new kinds of hardware innovations from and video and whatnot. Where's that innovation coming from? Can you share your thoughts on this direction? >>Yeah, I think first I should say this isn't like, you know, something that just, you know, we decided to do, you know, six months ago, actually, in the office of C T 04 years ago, we actually had a project. Um, you know, future looking project to get our core hyper visor technology running on arm processors and that incubated in the office of the CTO for three years. And then last December, move the engineering team that had done that research and advanced development work in the office of the CTO over to our cloud platforms business unit, you know, and smart Knicks, you know, kind of converged with that. And so we were already, you know, well along the innovation path there, and it's really now about building the partnerships we have with smart nick vendors and driving this technology out to the benefit of our customers who don't want to leverage it. >>You get >>Greg, I want if you could clarify something for me on that. So Pat talked about Monterey, a complete re architect ing of the i o Stack. And he talked about it affecting in video. Uh, intel, melon, ox and Sandoz part of that when he talks about the Iot stack, you know, specifically what are we talking about there? >>So you know any any computing server in the data center, you know, in a cola facility or even even in the cloud, you know? Ah, large portion of the, you know CPU resource is, and even some memory resource is can get consumed by just processing. You know, the high volumes of Iot that's going out, you know, storage devices, you know, communicating between the different parts of multi tiered applications. And so there's there's a there's an overhead that that gets consumed in the course server CPU, even if its multi core multi socket. And so by offloading that a lot of that I owe work onto the arm core and taking advantage of the of the hardware offloads there in the smart Knicks, you can You can offload that processing and free up even as much as 30% of the CPU of a server, multi socket, multicourse server, and give that back to the application so that the application gets the benefit of that extra compute and memory resource is >>So what about a single sort of low cost flash tear to avoid the complexities of tearing? Is that part of the equation? >>Well, you know, you can you can, um you know, much storage now is network attached. And so you could if it's all flash storage, you know, using something like envy me fabric over over Ethernet, you can essentially build large scale storage networks more efficiently, you know more cheaply and take advantage of that offload processing, uh, to begin to reduce the Iot Leighton. See, that's required taxes. That network attached storage and not just storage. But, you know, other devices, you know, that you can use you could better network attached. So disaggregated architectures is term. >>Uh, is that a yes? Or is that a stay tuned? >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. I mean the storage. You know, more efficient use of different classes of storage and storage. Tearing is definitely a prime use case there. >>Yeah, great. Thank you. Thanks for that. John, >>How could people think about the edge now? Because one of the things that's in this end to end is the edge. Pat brought it up multi cloud and edge or two areas that are extending off cloud and hybrid. What should people think about the innovation equation around those things? Is that these offload techniques? What specifically in the systems architecture? Er, do you guys see as the key keys there? >>So so, you know, edges very diversified, heterogeneous place, Uh, in the architectures of multi cloud services. So one thing we do know is, you know, workload. I would like to say workload follows data, and a lot of the data will be analyzed, the process at the edge. So the more that you can accelerate that data processing at the edge and apply some machine learning referencing at the edge were almost certainly gonna have kubernetes everywhere, including the edge. So I think you're seeing a convergence of the hardware architectures er the kubernetes control plane and services and machine learning workloads. You know, traveling to the edge where the where the data is going to be processed and actions could be taken autonomously at the edge. So I think we're in this convergence point in the industry where all that comes together. >>How important do you >>do you see that? Okay, John, >>how important is the intelligence piece? Because again, the potatoes at the edge. How do you guys see the data architecture being built out there? >>Um, well, again, it's depending on the other. The thick edge of the thin edge. You know, you're gonna have different, different types of data, and and again, a lot of the the inference thing that could happen at the edges. Going to, I think, for mawr, you know, again to take action at the edges, opposed to calling home to a cloud, you know, to decide what to do. So, depending on, you know, the computational power and the problem with its video processing or monitoring, you know, sensors, Aaron, oil. Well, the kind of interesting that will happen at the edge will will be dependent on that data type and what kind of decisions you want to make. So I think data will be moving, you know, from the edge to the cloud for historical analytics and maybe transitional training mechanisms. But, you know, the five G is gonna play heavily into this is well right for the network connectivity. So we read This unique point is often occurs in the industry every few years of all these technology innovations converging to open up an entirely new platform in a new way of computing that happens at the edge, not just in your data center at the cloud. >>So, Greg, you did a fairly major stint at a large bank. What would something you mentioned? You know, like an oil rig. But what would something like these changes mean for a new industry like banking or financial? Uh, will it have an impact there and put on your customer hat for a minute and take us through that >>e? You know, eight machines, you know, branches, chaos. You know, there's all make banks always been a very distributed computing platform. And so, you know, people want to deliver mawr user experience, services, more video services. You know all these things at the edge to interact positively with the customer without using the people in the loop. And so the banking industry has already gone through the SD when, and I want transformation to deliver the bandwidth more capably to the edge. And I just think that they'll just now be able to deliver Mawr Edge services that happened can happen more autonomously at the edge is opposed that having the hairpin home run everything back to the data center. >>Awesome. Well, Pat talks about the modern platform, the modern companies. Greg, I wanna ask you because we're seeing with Kovar, there's to use cases, you know, the people who don't have a tailwind, Um, companies that are, you know, not doing well because there's no business that you have there modernizing their business while they have some downtime. Other ones have a tailwind. They have a modern app that that takes advantage, this covert situation. So that brings up this idea of what is a modern app look like? Because now, if you're talking about a distributed architecture, some of things you're mentioning around inference, data edge. People are starting to think about these modern naps, and they are changing the game for the business. Now you have vertical industries. You mentioned oil and gas, you got financial services. It used to be you had industry solution. It worked like that and was siloed. Now you have a little bit of a different architectures. If we believe that we're looking up, not down. Does it matter by industry? How should people think about a modern application, how they move faster? Can you share your insights into into some of this conceptual? What is a modern approach and does it doesn't matter by vertical or industry. >>Yes, I mean, certainly over the course of my career, I mean, there's there's a massive diversity of applications. And of course, you know, the explosion of mobile and edge computing is just another sort of sort of use cases that will put demands on the infrastructure in the architecture and the networking. So a modern, a modern app I mean, we historically built sort of these monolithic app. So we sort of built these sort of three tier apse with, you know, sort of the client side, the middleware side. The database back in is the system of record. I mean, this is even being more disaggregated in terms of, you know, the the consumer edges both not just web here, but mobile tear. And, you know, we'll see what emerges out of that. The one thing for sure that is that, um they're becoming less monolithic and mawr a conglomeration of sass and other services that are being brought together, whether it's from the cloud services or whether it's s, you know, SBS delivering, you know, bring your own software. Um, and they're becoming more distributed because people need operated higher degrees of scale. There's a limit to Virgil vertical scaling, so you have to go to horizontal scaling, which is what the cloud is really good at. So I think all these things were driving a whole new set of technologies like next generation AP gateways. Message Busses, service mesh. We're announcing Tanzi's service message being world. Um, you know, this is just allowing allowing that application to be disaggregated and then integrated with other APS assassin services that allow you to get faster time to market. So speed of delivery is everything. So modern C I. C d. Modern software, technology and ability to deploy and run that workload anywhere at the edge of the core in the data center in the cloud. >>So when you do in your re architecture like this, Greg, I mean you've seen over the course of history in our industry you've seen so many companies have hit a wall and in VM, whereas it's just amazing engineering culture. How are you able toe, you know, change the engine mid flight here and avoid like, serious technical debt. And I mean, it took, you know, you said started four years ago, but can you give us a peek inside? You know, that sort of transformation and how you're pulling that off? >>Well, I mean, we're providing were delivered the platform and, you know, spring Buddhas a key, you know, technology that's used widely across the industry already, which is what we've got is part of our pivotal acquisition. And so what we're just trying to do is just keep keep delivering the technology and the platform that allows people to go faster with quality security and safety and resiliency. That's what we do really well at VM ware. So I think you're seeing more people building these APS Cloud native is opposed to, you know, taking an existing legacy app In trying to re factor it, they might do what it called e think somebody's called two speed architectures. Take the user front, end the consumer front in, and put that cloud native in the cloud. But the back end system of record still runs in the private cloud in a highly resilient you know, backed up disaster recovered way. So you're having, I think, brand new cloud native APS we're seeing. And then you're seeing people very carefully because there's a cost to it of looking at How do I basically modernized the front end but maintain the reliability of the scalability of security and the reliability of that sort of system of record back in? So either way, it's it's winning for the companies because they could do faster delivery to their businesses and their clients and their partners. But you have to have the resiliency and reliability that were known for for running those mission critical workloads, >>right? So the scenario is that back end stays on premise on the last earnings call, I think, Pat said, or somebody said that, that I think I just they said on Prem or maybe the man hybrid 30 to 40% cheaper, then doing it in the cloud. I presume they were talking about those kind of back end systems that you know you don't wanna migrate. Can you add some color that again from your customer perspective That the economics? >>Yeah. You know, um, somebody asked me one time what's really a cloud. Greg and I said, automation, automation, automation you can take you can take You can take your current environments and highly automate the release. Lifecycle management develop more agile software delivery methods. And so therefore, you could you could get sort of cloud benefits, you know, from your existing applications by just highly optimizing them and, you know, on the cost of goods and services. And then again, the hybrid cloud model just gives customers more choice, which is okay. I want to reduce the number of data centers I have, but I need to maintain reliability, scalability, etcetera. Take advantage of, you know, the hybrid cloud that we offer. But you'll still run things. Cloud natives. I think you're seeing this true multi cloud technology and paradigm, you know, grow out as people have these choices. And then the question is okay. If you have those choices, how do you maintain security? How do you maintain reliability? How do you maintain up time yet be able to move quickly. And so I think there's different speeds in which those platforms will evolve. And our goal is to give you the ability to basically make those choices and and optimize for economics as well as technical. You know, capability. >>Great. I want to ask you a question with Cove it we're seeing and we've been reporting the Cube virtual evolve because we used to be it at events, but we're not there anymore. But the as everyone has realized with cove it it's exposed some projects that you might not want to double down on or highlighted some gaps in architecture. Er, I mean, certainly who would have forecast of the disruption of 100% work from home VP and provisioning to access and access management security, and it really is exposed. What kind of who's where in the journey, Right in digital transformation. So I gotta ask you, what's the most important story or thing to pay attention, Thio as the smart money and smart customers go, Hey, you know what? I'm gonna double down on that. I'm gonna kill that project or sunset. That or I'm not gonna re factor that I'm gonna contain Arise it and there's probably there's a lot of that going on. In our conversations with customers, they're like it's pretty obvious. It's critical path. It's like we stay in business. We build a modern app, but I'm doubling down. I'm transitioning. It's a whole nother ballgame. What >>is >>the most important thing that you see that people should pay attention to around maintaining an innovation and coming out on the other side? >>Yeah, well, I think I think it just generally goes to the whole thesis of software defined. I mean, you know the idea of taking an appliance physical, You know, you have to order the hardware, get it on your loading dock, install in your data center. You know, go configure it, mapping into the rest of your environment. You know, whereas or you could just spend up new, softer instances of load balancers, firewalls, etcetera. So I think you know what's What's really helped in the covert era is the maturity of software to find everything. Compute storage, networking. Lan really allowed customers and many of our customers toe, you know, rapidly make that pivot. And so you know what? It's the you know, the workspace, the remote workspace. You gotta secure it. That's a key part of it, and you've got to give it. You know, you gotta have the scalability back in your data centers or, if you don't have it, be able to run those virtual desktops you know, in the cloud. And I think so. This ability again to take your current environment and, more importantly, your operating model, which, you know the technology could be agile and fast. But if you're operating models not agile, you know you can't executed Well, One of the best comments I heard from a customer CEO was, you know, for six months we debated, you know, the virtual networking architecture and how to deploy the virtual network. And, you know, when covet hit. We made the decision that did it all in one week. So the question the CEO asked now is like Well, why do we Why do we have to operate in that six month model going forward? Let's operate in the one week model going forward. E. I think that that z yeah, that's e think that's the big That's a big inflection point is the operating model has to be agile. We got all kinds of agile technology and choices I mentioned it's like, How do you make your organization agile to take advantage of those technological offerings? That's really what I've been doing the last six months, helping our customers achieve. >>I think that's a key point worth calling out and doubling down on day because, you know, whether you talk about our q Q virtual, our operating model has changed and we're doing new things. But it's not bad. It's actually beneficial. We could talk to more people. This idea of virtual ization. I mean pun intended virtual izing workforces face to face interactions air now remote. This is a software defined operating business. This is the rial innovation. I think this is the exposure. As companies wake up and going. Why didn't we do that before? Reminds me of the old mainframe days. Days? You know, why do we have that mainframe? Because they're still clutching and grabbing onto it. They got a transition. So this is the new the new reality. >>We were joking earlier that you know it ain't broke, don't fix it. And all of a sudden Covic broke everything. And so you know, virtualization becomes a fundamental component of of of how you respond. But and I wonder if Greg you could talk about the security. Peace? How how that fits in. You know everybody you know, the bromide, of course, is security can't be a bolt on. It's gotta be designed in from the start, Pat Gelsinger said years ago in the Cube. Security is a do over. You guys have purchased many different security components you've built in. Security comes. So how should we think about? And how are you thinking about designing insecurity across that entire stack without really bolting in, You know, pieces, whether it's carbon, carbon, black or other acquisitions that you've made? >>Yeah, I mean, I think that's that's the key. Inflection point we're in is an industry. I mean, getting back to my banking experience, I was responsible for cybersecurity, engineering the platforms that we engineered and deployed across the bank globally. And the challenge, the challenge. You know, that's I had, you know, 150 plus security products, and you go to bed at night wondering what? Which one did I forget to deploy or what did I get that gap? Do you think you think you're safe by the sheer number, but when you really boil down to it is like, you know, because you have to sort of like both all this stuff together to create a secure environment, you know, on a global level. And so really, our philosophy of VM where is Okay? Well, let's kind of break that model. That's what we call it intrinsic security, which is just, you know, we have the hyper visor. If you're running, the hyper visor is running on most of the service in your data center. If we have your if you have our network virtualization, we see all the traffic going between all those hyper visors and out to the cloud as well hybrid cloud or public cloud with our NSX technology. And then, you know, then you sort of bring into that the load balancers and the software to find firewalls. And pretty soon you have realized Okay, look, we have we have most of the estate. Therefore we could see everything and bring some intelligent machine learning to that and get proactive as opposed to reactive. Because our whole model now is we. All this technology and some alert pops and we get reactive. How about proactively telling me that something nasty is going on. >>I need to ask you a >>question. May be remediated. Sorry, John. It may be remediated at some point anyway. Bring in some machine intelligence tow. So instead of like you said, getting an alert actually tells me what what happened and how it was fixed, you know? Or at least recommending what I should dio, right? >>Yeah. I mean, part of the problem in the historic architectures is it was all these little silos. You know, every business unit had its own sort of technology. And Aziz, you make things virtualized. You you sort of do the virtual networking. The virtual stories of virtual compute all the software. You know, all of a sudden you have you have a different platform, you have lots of standardization. Therefore you don't have your operating model simplifies right and amount of and then it's about just collecting all the data and then making sense of the data. So you're not overwhelming the human's capacity to respond to it. And so I think that's really the fundamental thing we're all trying to get to. But the surface area is enlarged outside the data centers we've discussed out to the edge, whatever the edges, you know, into the cloud hybrid or public. So now you've got this big surface area where you've gotta have all that telemetry and all that visibility again, Back to getting proactive. So you got to do it in Band is opposed out of band. >>Great. I want to ask you a question on cyber security. We have an event on October 4th, the virtual event that Cuba is hosting with Cal Poly around this space and cybersecurity, symposiums, intersection of space and cyber. I noticed VM Ware recently announced last month that the United States Space Force has committed to the Tan Xue platform for for Continuous Dev ops operation for agility. I interviewed Lieutenant General John Thompson, Space Force, and we talked about that. He said quote, it's hard to do break fix in space. Uh, illustrating, really? Just can't send someone to swap out something in space. Not yet, at least. So they're looking at software defined as a key operating reality. Okay, so again, talk about the edge of space Isas edges. You're gonna get it. Need to be completely mad and talk about payloads and data. This >>is kind >>of interesting data point because you have security issues because space is gonna be contested and congested as an edge device. So it's actually the government's interested in that. But fundamentally, the death hops problem that you're you guys are involved in This >>is a >>reality. It's kind of connects this reality idea of operating models based in reality have to be software. What's >>your name? Yeah. I mean, I think the term we use now is def sec ops because you can't just do Dev ops. You have to have the security component in there, So, uh, yeah, the interesting. You know, like, there's a lot of interesting things happen just in fundamental networking, right? I mean, you know, the StarLink, you know, satellites at Testa. His launched Elon musk has launched and, you know, bringing sort of, you know, higher band with laurel agency to those. Yeah, we'll call it near space the and then again, just opens up all new opportunities for what we can dio. And so, Yeah, I think that's the software that the whole the whole saw for development ecosystem again, back to this idea. I think of three things. You gotta have speed. You gotta have scale and you gotta have security. And so that's really the emerging platform, whether it's a terrestrial or in near space, Uh, that's giving us the opportunity, Thio Do new architectures create service measures of services, some terrestrial, some some you know, far remote. And as you bring these new application architectures and system platform architectures together with all the underlying hardware and networking innovations that are occurring, you mentioned flash. But even getting into pmm persistent memory, right? So this this is so much happening that is converging. What's exciting to me about being a TV? Where is the CTO and we partner with all the hardware vendors? We partner with all the system providers, like in video and others. You know, the smart nick vendors. And then we get to come up with software architectures that sort of bring that together holistically and give people a platform. We can run your workloads to get work done wherever you need to land those workloads. And that's really the excitement about >>the candy store. And yet you've got problems hard problems to work on to solve. I mean, this really brings the whole project moderate, full circle because we think about space and networks and all these things you're talking about, You need to have smart everything. I mean, isn't that software? It's a complete tie into the Monterey. >>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Exactly. You're right. It's not just it's not just connecting everything and pushing data around its than having the intelligence to do it efficiently, economically, insecurely. And that's you know. So I see that you don't want to over hype machine learning. I did not to use the term AI, but use the machine learning technologies, you know, properly trained with the proper data sets, you know, and then the proper algorithms. You know that you can then a employee, you know, at the edge small edge, thick edge, you know, in the data center at the cloud is really Then you give the visibility so that we get to that proactive world I was talking about. >>Yeah, great stuff, Greg. Great insight, great conversation. Looking forward to talking mawr Tech with you. Obviously you are in the right spot was in the center of all the action across the board final point. If you could just close it out for us. What is the most important story at VM World 2020 this year. >>Um, well, I think you know, I like to say that I have the best job. I think you know that I've had in my career. I've had some great ones is you know, we get to be disruptive innovators, and we have a culture of perpetual innovation and really being world for us, Aly employees and all the people that work together to put it together is we get to showcase. You know, some of that obviously have more up our sleeves for the future. But, you know, being world is are, you know, coming coming out out show of the latest set of innovations and technologies. So there's going to be so much I have, ah, vision and innovation. Keynote kickoff, right. Do some lightning demos. And actually, I talk about work we're doing in sustainability, and we're putting a micro grid on our campus in Palo Alto and partnership with City of Palo Alto so that when the wildfires come through or there is power outages, you know we're in oasis of power generating capacity with our solar in our batteries. And so the city of Palo Alto could take their emergency command vehicles and plug into our batteries when the power is out in Palo Alto and operate city services and city emergency services. So we're not just innovating, you know, in cortex we're innovating to become a more, you know, sustainable company and provide sustainable, you know, carbon neutral technology for our customers to adopt. And I think that's an area we wanna talk about me. We talk about it next time, but I think you know our innovations. We're gonna basically help change the world with regard to climate as well. >>Let's definitely do that. Let's follow up for another in depth conversation on the societal impact. Of course, VM Ware VM Ware's VM World's 2020 is virtual is a ton of sessions. There's a Cloud City portion. Check out the 60 solution demos. Of course, they ask the expert, Greg, you're in there with Joe Beta Raghu, all the experts, um, engage and check it out. Thank you so much for the insight here on the Cube. Virtual. Thanks for coming on. >>Appreciate the opportunity. Great conversation and good questions. >>Great stuff. Thank you very much. Innovation that vm where it's the heart of their missions always has been, but they're doing well on the business side, Dave. Okay. The cube coverage. They're not there in person. Virtual. I'm John for day. Volonte. Thanks for watching.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE! Covering Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020. Hosted by Cal Poly. >> Hello everyone. Welcome to the Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020, put on by Cal Poly and hosted with SiliconANGLE theCUBE here in Palo Alto, California for a virtual conference. Couldn't happen in person this year, I'm John Furrier, your host. The intersection of space and cybersecurity, obviously critical topics, great conversations. We've got a great guest here to talk about the addressing the cybersecurity workforce gap. And we have a great guest, and a feature speaker, Stewart Knox, the undersecretary with California's Labor and Workforce Development Office. Stewart, thanks for joining us today. >> Thank you so much, John. I appreciate your time today and listening to a little bit of our quandaries with making sure that we have the security that's necessary for the state of California and making sure that we have the workforce that is necessary for cybersecurity in space. >> Great. I'd love to get started. I've got a couple of questions for you, but first take a few minutes for an opening statement to set the stage. >> Sure, realizing that in California, we lead the nation in much of cybersecurity based on Department of Defense contractors within the state of California, leading the nation with over 160 billion dollars within the industry just here in California alone and having over 800,000 plus workers full time employment in the state of California is paramount for us to make sure that we face defense manufacturers, approximately 700,000 jobs that are necessary to be filled. There's over 37,000 vacancies that we know of in California, just alone in cybersecurity. And so we look forward to making sure that California Workforce Development Agency is leading the charge to make sure that we have equity in those jobs and that we are also leading in a way that brings good jobs to California and to the people of California, a good education system that is developed in a way that those skills are necessarily met for the employers here in California, and the nation. >> One of the exciting things about California is obviously look at Silicon Valley, Hewlett Packard and the garage story, history, space, it's been a space state, many people recognize California. You mentioned defense contractors. It's well rooted with history, just breakthroughs, bases, technology companies in California. And now you've got technology. This is the cybersecurity angle. Take a minute to give some more commentary to that because that's really notable, and as the workforce changes, these two worlds are coming together and sometimes they're in the same place, sometimes they're not. This is super exciting and a new dynamic that's driving opportunities. Could you share some color commentary on that dynamic? >> Absolutely. And you're so correct. I think in California, we lead the nation in the way that we develop programs, that our companies lead in the nation in so many ways around cyberspace, cybersecurity in so many different areas, for which in the Silicon Valley is just such a leader and those companies are good, qualified companies to do so. Obviously one of the places we play a role is to make sure that those companies have a skilled workforce. And also that the security of those systems are in place for our defense contractors and for the feeder companies, those outlying entities that are providing such key resources to those companies are also leading on a cutting edge for the future. Also again, realizing that we need to expand our training and skills to make sure that those California companies continue to lead, is just such a great initiative. And I think through apprenticeship training programs, and looking at our community college systems, I think that we will continue to lead the nation as we move forward. >> You know, we've had many conversations here in this symposium virtually, certainly around the everyday life of a consumer is impacted by space. You know, we get our car service, Uber, Lyft, we have maps, we have all this technology that was born out of defense contracts and R and D that really changed generations and created a lot of great societal value. Okay, now with space kind of going to the next generation, it's easier to get stuff into space. The security of the systems is now going to be not only paramount for quality of life, but defending that, and the skills are needed in cybersecurity to defend that. And the gap is there. What can we do to highlight the opportunities for career paths? It used to be the day where you get a mechanical engineering degree or aerospace and you graduate and you go get a job, not anymore. There's a variety of paths, career-wise. What can we do to highlight this career path? >> Absolutely correct. And I think it starts, you know, K through 12 system. And I know a lot of the work that (indistinct) and other entities are doing currently. This is where we need to bring our youth into an age where they're teaching us, right, as we become older, on the uses of technology, but it's also teaching where the levels of those education can take them, K through 12, but it's also looking at how the community college system links to that. And then the university system links above and beyond, but it's also engaging our employers. You know, one of the key components, obviously as the employers play a role, for which we can start to develop strategies that best meet their needs quickly. I think that's one of the comments we hear the most, at Labor Agency is how we don't provide a change as fast as we should, especially in technology. You know, we buy computers today and they're outdated tomorrow. It's the same with the technology that's in those computers is that those students are going to be the leaders within that to really develop how those structures are in place. So K through 12 is probably our primary place to start, but also continuing that past the K-12 system. And I bring up the employers and I bring them up in a way, because many times when we've had conversations with employers around what their skills needs were and how do we develop those better? One of the pieces of that, that I think really should be recognized, many times they recognize that they wanted a four year degree, potentially, or a five year or six year degree. But then when we really looked at the skillsets, someone coming out of the community college system could meet those skillsets. And I think we need to have those conversations to make sure, not that they shouldn't be continuing their education. They absolutely should. But how do we get those skillsets built into this into a K-12 plus the two year plus the four year person? >> Yeah, I love the democratization of these new skills, because again, there's no pattern matching 'cause they weren't around before, right? So you got to look at the exposure, to your point, K through 12 exposure, but then there's an exploration piece of it, whether it's community college or whatever progression, and sometimes it's nonlinear, right? I mean, people are learning different ways, combining the exposure and the exploration. That's a big topic. Can you share your view on this? Because this now opens up more doors for people, choice, you got new avenues, you got online, I can get a cloud computing degree now from Amazon and walk in and help. I can be, you know, security clearance possibly in college. So, you know, you get exposure. Is there certain things you see, is it early on? Middle school? And then obviously the exploration, those are two important concepts. Can you unpack that a little bit, exposure and exploration of skills? >> Absolutely, and I think this takes place not only in the K-12 system, but it takes place in our community colleges and our four year universities is that, that connection with those employers is such a key component, that if there's a way we could build in internships, work experiences, what we call on the job training programs, apprenticeship training, pre-apprenticeship training programs, into a design where those students at all levels are getting an exposure to the opportunities within the space and cybersecurity avenue. I think that right there alone will start to solve a problem of having 37 plus thousand openings at any one time in California. Also, I get that there's a burden on employers to do that. And I think that's a piece that we have to acknowledge, and I think that's where education can play a larger role. That's a place we at Labor Workforce Development Agency play a role with our apprenticeship training programs, our pre-apprenticeship training programs. I could go on all day of all of our training programs that we have within the state of California. Many of the list of your partners on this endeavor are partners with Employment Training Panel, which I used to be the director of the Brown administration of. That program alone does incumbent worker training. And so that also is an exposure place where a worker may be, you know, I use the old adage of sweeping the floors one day and potentially writing a large portion of the business, within years. But it's that exposure that that employee gets through training programs, and acknowledging those skill sets and where their opportunities are, is what's valid and important. I think that's where our students, we need to play a larger role than the K-12 system, really, to get that pushed out there. >> It's funny, here in California, you were the robotics clubs in high school are like a varsity sport, you're seeing kids exposed early on with programming, but it's, you know, this whole topic of cybersecurity and space intersection around workforce, and the gaps in the skills, it's not just for the young, certainly the young generation's got to be exposed to what the careers could be and what the possible jobs and societal impact and contributions, what they could be, but also it's people who are already out there. You know, you have retraining, re-skilling, this plays an important role. I know you guys do a lot of thinking on this as the undersecretary, you have to look at this because you know, you don't want to have a label "old and antiquated" systems. And a lot of them are, and they're evolving and they're being modernized by digital transformation. So what does the role of retraining and skill development for these programs play? Can you share what you guys are working on and your vision for that? >> Absolutely. That's a great question. 'Cause I think that is where we play a large role, obviously in California and with COVID-19 is we are faced with today that we've never seen before. At least in my 27 years of running programs, similar to all workforce and economic development, we are having such a large number of people displaced currently that it's unprecedented, we've got employment rates to where we are. We're really looking at how do we take, and we're also going to see industries not return to the level for which they stood at one point in time, you know, entertainment industries, restaurants, all of the alike, really looking at how do we move people from those jobs that were middle skill jobs to upper skill jobs, but the pay points maybe weren't great, potentially. And there's an opportunity for us to skill people into jobs that are there today. It may take training, obviously, but we have dollars to do that, generally, especially within our K-12 and our K-14 systems and our universities. But we really want to look at where those skillsets are at, currently. And we want to take people from that point in time where they sit today, and try to give them that exposure to your point earlier question is how do we get them exposed to a system for which there are job with means that pay well, with benefit packages, with companies that care about their employees. 'Cause that's what our goal is. >> You know, I don't know if you have some visibility on this or an opinion, but one of the observations that I've had and talk to whether it's a commercial or public sector, is that with COVID, there's been a lot of awareness of the situation. We're adequately prepared. There's some readiness, but as everyone kind of deals with it, they're also starting to think about what to do post-COVID as we come out of it, a growth strategy for a company or someone's career. People are starting to have that on the top of their minds. So I have to ask you, is there anything that you see that they say, "Okay, certain areas, maybe not doubling down on other areas, we're going to double down on because we've seen some best practices on a trajectory of value for coming out of COVID with, you know, well-armed skills or certain things." 'Cause that's what a lot of people are thinking right now. And certainly cyber is, I mean, how many jobs are open? So you got "Well that that's kind of maybe not something to double down on, here are areas we see that are working." Can you share your current visibility into that dynamic? >> Absolutely. Another great question. One of the key components that we look at at Labor Workforce Development Agency is to look at the industries in growth modes and ones that are in decline modes. Now COVID has changed that greatly. We were in a growth mode for the last seven, eight years. We saw almost every industry, minus a few, that were all in growth in one way or another, but obviously that has changed. Our landscape is completely different than we saw six, seven months ago. So today we're looking at cybersecurity, obviously with 30 plus thousand job openings, we are looking at Defense Department contractors, obviously, with federal government contracts. We are looking at the supply chains within those. We are looking at healthcare, which has always been one of obviously our large, one of our large entities that has grown over the years. But it's also changed with COVID-19. We're looking at the way protective equipment is manufactured and the way that that will continue to grow over time, we're looking at the service industry. I mean, it will come back, but it won't come back the way we've seen it probably in the past, but where are the opportunities that we develop programs that we are making sure that the skill sets of those folks are transferable to other industries. We have one of the issues that we face constantly in Labor and Workforce Development programs is understanding that over the period of time, especially in today's world, again, with technology, that people's skillsets, we don't see as in my parents' day that you worked at a job for 45 years and you retired at one job potentially. That's been gone for 25 years, but now at the pace for which we are seeing systems change, this is going to continue to amp up, and I will say, youth of today, my 12 year old nephew is in the room next door to me, in a classroom right now online. And so, you know, it's a totally different atmosphere and he's enjoying actually being at home and learning from an all online system. I would not have been able to learn that way, but I think we do see through the K through 12 system, the way we're moving, people's interests will change. And I think that they will start to see things in a different way than we have in the past. They were forced systems. We are an old system, been around since the 30s. Some even we'll say prior to the 30s, came out of the Great Depression in some ways. And that system, we have to change the way we develop our programs. It should not be constant and it should be an evolving system. >> It's interesting. A lot of the conversations between the private and public partnerships and industry, you're seeing an agile mindset where it's a growth mindset, it's also a reality-based mindset and certainly space kind of forces this conversation with cybersecurity of being faster, faster, more relevant, more modern. And you mentioned some of those points, and with COVID impact, the workforce development is certainly going to put a lot of pressure on faster learning. And then you mentioned online learning. This has become a big thing. It's not just putting education online per se. There's new touchpoints. You know, you've got apps, you've got digital. This digital transformation is also accelerating. How do you guys view the workforce development? Because it's going to be open. It's going to be evolving. There's new data coming in and maybe kids don't want to stare at a video conference. Is there some game aspect to it? Is there, how do you integrate these new things that are coming really fast, and it's happening kind of in real time in front of our eyes. So I'd love to get your thoughts on how you guys see that because it'll certainly impact their ability to compete for jobs and/or to self-learn. >> Well, I think one of the key components of California is our innovation, right? And so I think one of the things that we pride ourselves in California is around that. That said, that is the piece that I think the Silicon Valley, and then there's many areas in California that have done the same, or tried to do the same, at least in their economy is to build in innovation. And I think that's part of the K through 12 system, with our state universities and our UCs is to be able to bridge that. I think that you, we see that within universities that really instill an innovative approach to teaching, but also instill innovation within their students. I'm not sure we're there yet fully, with our K-12 system, and I think that's a place that either our community colleges could be a bridge to as well. So that's one component of workforce development I think that we look at as being a key piece. You brought up something that's really interesting to me is when you talk about agile, and one of the things that even in state government, this is going to be shocking to you, but we have not been an agile system as well. I think one of the things that the Newsom administration, Governor Newsom's administration has brought is, and when I talk about agile systems, I actually mean agile systems. We've gone from COBOL systems, which are old and clunky, still operating, but at the same time, we're looking at upgrading all of our systems in a way that even in our technology, in the state of California should be matching, the technology that our great state has within our state. So therein lies, it's also challenges of finding the qualified staff that we need in the state of California for all of our systems and servers and everything that we have currently. So, you know, not only are we looking at external users of labor workforce development, but we're looking at internal users, that the way we redevelop our systems so that we are more agile in two different ways. >> You just got me triggered with COBOL. I programmed in the 80s with COBOL, only one credit lab in college. Never touched it again, thank God. But this is the benefit of cloud computing. I think this is at the heart and this is the undertone of the conference and symposium is cloud computing, you can actually leverage existing resources, whether they're legacy systems, because they are running, they're doing a great job and they do a certain workload extremely well. Doesn't make sense to replace if it does a job. You can integrate it and that's what cloud does. This is opening up more and more capabilities and workloads. This is kind of what the space industry is pointing to when they say "We need people that can code and that can solve data problems," not just the computer scientists, but a large range of people, creative, data, science, everything. How does California's workforce solve the needs of America's space industry? This is because it's a space state. How do you see the labor workforce meeting those needs? >> Yeah, I think it's an investment. Obviously it's an investment on our part. It's an investment with our college partners. It's an investment from our K-12 system to make sure that we are allocating dollars in a way through meeting the demand of industry. And we do look at industry-specific around their needs, obviously this is a large one. We want to be very receptive, and work with our employers and our employee groups to make sure that we meet that demand. I think it's putting our money where our mouth is and designing and working with employer groups to make sure that the training meets their needs. It's also working with our employer groups to make sure that the employees are taken care of and that equity is built within the systems, that we keep people employed in California, and they're able to afford a home and they're able to afford a life here in California, but it's also again and I brought up the innovation component. I think it's building an innovation within systems for which they are employers, but are also our incoming employees and our incumbent workers. And you brought those up earlier, people that are already employed and people that are unemployed currently with a skill set that might match up is how do we bridge those folks into employment that they maybe have not thought about? We have a whole career network of systems out throughout The City of California with the America's Job Centers of California, and they will be working, and they already are working with a lot of dislocated workers. And one of the key components of that is to really look at how do we take what their current skillset might be, and then expose them to a system for which we have 37 plus thousand job openings, too, and how do we actually get those folks employed? It's paid for potentially through that local Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act funding through our America's Job Centers, to pay for some on the job training. It's to be able to pay for work experiences, it's to be able to pay for internships for students to get that opportunity with our employers and also partnering with our employers that they're paying, obviously a percentage of that too. >> You know, one of the things I've observed over my career, 54 times around the sun is, you know, in the old days, when I was in college and school, you had career, people had the longer jobs, as you mentioned it's not like that anymore. But also I knew someone I'm going to to be in line to get that job, maybe nepotism or things of that nature. Now the jobs have no historical thing or someone worked longer in a job and has more seniority. A lot of these jobs, Stewart, don't have requirements, like no one's done them before. So the ability for someone who is jumping in, either from any college, there's no real, it's all level set, it's a complete upside down script here. It's not like, "Oh, I went to school, therefore I get the job." It can be, anyone can walk into these careers because the jobs are so new. So it's not where you came from or what school you went to or your nationality or gender. The jobs have been democratized. They're not discriminating against people with skills. This opens up more. How do you see that? Because this really is an opportunity for this next generation to be more diverse and to be more contributive because diversity brings expertise and different perspectives. Your thoughts on that. >> Absolutely, and that was one of the things we welcome, obviously. We want to make sure that that everybody is treated equally and that the employers view everyone as an employer of choice, but an employee of choice as well. We've also been looking at, as I mentioned before on the COVID situation, looking at ways that folks that are maybe stuck in jobs that don't have a huge career pathway, or they don't have a pathway out of poverty. I mean, we have a lot of working poor people in the state of California that may now due to COVID lost their employment. This, you know, let's turn back to the old adage, let's turn lemons into lemonade. How do we take those folks and get them employed into jobs that do have a good career pathway? And it's not about just who you knew, or who you might have an in with to get that job. It is based on skills. I think though, that said, we need to have a better way to actually match those jobs up with those employers. And I think those are the ongoing conversations with those employer groups to make sure that, one, that they see those skill sets as valid and important. They're helping design those career sets with us so that they do match up and that we're quickly matching up those close skillsets so that we're not training people for yesterday's skills. >> I think the employer angle's super important, but also the educators as well. One of the things that was asked in another question by the guest, they said, she said, the real question to ask is, how early do you start exposing the next generation? You mentioned K through 12, do you have any data or insight into or intuition or best practice of where that insertion point is, that exposure point? Is it middle school? Is it elementary, honestly, high school, once you're in high school, you got your training wheels are off, you're off to the races, but is there a best practice? What's your thoughts, Stewart, on exposure level to these kinds of new cyber and technical careers? >> Sure, absolutely. I would say kindergarten. We, San Bernardino has a program that they've been running for a little bit of time, and they're exposing students K through 12, but really starting in kindergarten. One is the exposure to what a job looks like. And then actually I've gone down to that local area and I've had the opportunity to see, you know, second graders in a healthcare facility, basically, that they have on campus built-in. And they're going from one workstation as a second grader, looking at what those skills would be and what that job would entail from a nurse to a doctor, to a physician's assistant, and really looking at what that is. You know, obviously they're not getting the training that a doctor gets, but they are getting the exposure of what that would be. And I think that is amazing. And I think it's the right place to start. It was really interesting 'cause as I left, this was pre-COVID, but as I jumped on the plane to come back up north, I was thinking to myself, "How do we get this to all school districts in California where we see that opportunity to expose jobs and skill sets to kids throughout the system and develop those skill sets so that they do understand that they have an opportunity?" >> We are here at Cal Poly Space and Cybersecurity Symposium. We have educators, we have students, we have industry and employers and government together. What's your advice to them all watching and listening about the future of work, this workforce, what can people do? What do you think you're enabling? What can maybe the private sector help with and what are you trying to do? Can you share your thoughts on that? Because we have a range from the dorm room to the boardroom here at this event. I'd love to get your thoughts on the workforce development view of this. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the mix. I mean, I think it's going to take industry to lead, in a lot of ways in terms of understanding what their needs are and what their needs are today and what they will be tomorrow. I think it takes education to listen, and to understand, and labor and workforce development to also listen and understand what those needs will look like. And then how do we move systems? How do we move systems quickly? How do we move systems in a way that meets those needs? How do we put money into systems where the most need is, but also looking at trends? What is that trend going to look like in two years? What is that trend going to look like in five years, (indistinct), again, listening to those employers, it's also listening to the community-based organizations. I think obviously some of our best students are also linked to CBOs in one way or another. It may be for services, it may be for faith-based, it may be anything, but I think we also need to bring in the CBOs as well. A lot of outreach goes through those systems in conjunction with, but I think that's the key component is to make sure that our employers are heard and that they sit at the table, like you said, to the boardroom of understanding, and I think bringing students into that so that they get a true understanding of what that looks like as well, is a key piece of this. >> Stu, one of the things I want to bring up with you is maybe a little bit more about the research side of it, but John Markoff, who was a former New York times reporter, but author of the book, "What the Dormouse Said," it was a book about the counterculture of the 60s and the computer revolution. And really it was about how government defense spending drove the computer revolution that we now saw with Apple and PC. And then the rest is history in California, has really participated, Stanford, the Berkeley, and the University of California school system, and all the education community colleges around it. That moment, the enablement, and now you're seeing space kind of bringing that, a lot of research coming in, need a lot of billionaires putting money in, you've got employers playing a role. You have this new focus, space systems, cybersecurity defending and making it open and, not congested and peaceful, is going to enable quickly, new inflection points for opportunities. I want to get your thoughts on that because California's participated and drove those revolutions, that's created massive value. This next wave seems to be coming upon us. >> Yeah, absolutely. And again, not to use COVID again as too much of a starting point to this, but I think that is also an opportunity to actually, 'cause I think one of the things that we were seeing seven months ago was a skill shortage, and we still see the skill shortage, obviously. But I think a key piece to that is we saw a people shortage. Not only was it skill shortage, but we didn't have enough people really to fill positions in addition, too, and I think that people also felt they were already paying the bills and they were making ends meet and they didn't have the opportunities to get additional skills. This again is where we're looking at, you know, our world has changed. It changed in the 60s based on what you're just expressing in terms of California leading the way. Let's let California lead the way again in developing a system for which labor workforce development with our universities, our amazing universities and community college system structure, of how do we get students back into school? You know, a lot of graduates may already have a degree, but how do they now take a skill set that they already have and develop that further with the idea that those jobs have changed? We also have a lot of folks that don't have a degree, and that's okay, but how do we make that connection to a system that may have failed a lot of our people over the years, and our students who didn't make it through the school system, how do we develop an adult training school? How do we develop contract education through our community college system with our employer sets, that we develop cohorts within the systems of workers that have amazing talents and abilities to start to fill these needs. And I think that's the key components that here at Labor Workforce Development Agency, we work with our community colleges, our UCs and our state universities to develop and figure that piece out. And I think it is our opportunity for the future. >> That's such a great point. I want to call that out, this whole opportunity to retrain people that are out there because these are new jobs. I think that's a huge opportunity and, I hope you keep building and investing in those programs. That's really worth calling out. Thank you for doing that. And yeah, it's a great opportunity to gain these jobs. They pay well, too, cybersecurity's a good job and you don't really need to have that classical degree. You can learn pretty quickly if you're smart. So again, great call out there. A question for you on geography. You mentioned COVID, we're talking about COVID, virtualization, we're virtual with this conference. We couldn't be in person. People are learning virtually, but people are starting to relocate virtually. And so one observation that I have is the space state that California is, there's space clusters of areas where space people hang out, or space spaces and whatnot. Then you got like the tech community, the cybersecurity market, you know, Silicon Valley, you know, the talent is in these hubs. And sometimes cyber's not always in the same hubs as space. Maybe Silicon Valley has some space here, and some cyber, but that's not generally the case. This is an opportunity potentially to intersect. What's your thoughts on this? Because this is something that we're seeing, where space has historical, you know, geographies. Now with borderless communication, the work mode is not so much "You have to move to this space area." You know what I'm saying? So what's your thoughts on this? How do you guys look at, this is on your radar, and how you're viewing this dynamic. >> It's absolutely on our radar. Like you said, you know, here we are, talking virtually, and you know, 75% of all of our staff currently, in some of our departments, it's 80% of our staff, are now virtual. Seven months ago, we were not. Government, again, being slow move, we quickly transitioned, obviously, to being able to have a telework capacity. We know employers moved probably even more quickly than we did, but we see that as an opportunity for our rural areas, our Central Valley, our Northstate, Inland Empire. That you're absolutely correct. I mean, if you didn't move to a city or to a location for which these jobs were really housed, you didn't have an opportunity like you do today. I think that's a piece that we really need to work with our education partners on, to be able to see how much this has changed. Labor Agency absolutely recognizes this. We are investing funding in the Central Valley. We're investing funding in the Northstate and Inland Empire to really look at youth populations, of how the new capacity that we have today is going to be utilized for the future for employers. But we also have to engage our universities around this as well, but mostly our employers. I know that they're already very well aware. I know that a lot of our large employers within Silicon Valley have already done it. They're doing almost 100% telework policies, but the affordability to live in rural areas in California, also enables us to have a way to make products more affordable as well, potentially in the future. But we want to keep California businesses healthy and whole in California, of course. And that's another way we can expand and keep California home to our 40 plus million people. >> Well Stewart, great work and congratulations for doing such a great job. Keep it up. I got to ask you about the governor. I've been following his career since he's been in office as a political figure. He's progressive, he's cutting edge. He likes to rock the boat a little bit here and there, but he's also pragmatic. You're starting to see government workers starting to get more of a tech vibe. Just curious from your perspective, how does the governor look at, I mean, the old, I won't say "old guard," but like, you know, it used to be, you become a lawyer, you become a lawmaker. Now a tech savvy lawmaker is a premium candidate, is a premium person in government. Knowing what COBOL is, is a start. I mean, these are the things that as we transform and evolve our society, we need thinkers who can figure out which side of the streets self driving cars go on. I mean, who does that? It's a whole nother generation of thinking. How does the governor, how do you see this developing? Because this is the challenge for society. How does California lead? How do you guys talk about the leadership vision of why California and how will you lead the future? >> Absolutely. No governor that I'm aware of, and I've been around for 26, 27 years of workforce development, has led with an innovation background as this governor has, especially around technology and the use of technology. You know, he's wrote a book about the use of technology when he was lieutenant governor. And I think it's really important for him that we, as his staff are also on the leading edge of technology. I brought up agile systems earlier. When I was under the Brown administration, we had moved to where I was at the time, Employment Training Panel, we moved to an agile system and deployed that. One of the first within the state to do that and coming off of an old legacy system that was an antique. I will say it is challenging. It's challenging on a lot of levels. Mostly the skill sets that our folks have, sometimes are not open to a new agile system, to an open source system is also an issue in government. But this governor absolutely, I mean, he has established the Office of Digital Innovation, which is part of California Department of Technology, in partnership with, and that just shows how much he wants to push our limits to make sure that we are meeting the needs of Californians. But it's also looking at, you know, Silicon Valley being at the heart of our state, how do we best utilize systems that are already there? How do we better utilize the talent from those folks as well? We don't always pay as well as they do in the state, but we do have great benefit packages, everybody knows. So if anybody's looking for a job, we're always looking for technology folks as well. And so I would say that this governor absolutely leads in terms of making sure that we will be on cutting edge technology for the nation. >> And, you know, talk about pay, I mean, I know it's expensive to live in some parts of California, but there's a huge young population that wants a mission-driven job, and serving the government for the government, it's awesome. A final parting question for you, Stewart, is as you look at the workforce, a lot of people are passionate about this and it's, you know, you can't go anywhere without people saying, you know, "We've got to do education this way, and that way," there's an opinion everywhere you go. Cybersecurity, obviously a little bit peaked and focused, but there are people who are paying attention to education. So I have to ask you what creative ways can people get involved and contribute to workforce development, whether it's STEM, underrepresented minorities, people are looking for new, innovative ways to contribute. What advice would you give these people who have the passion to contribute to the next cyber workforce? >> Yeah, I appreciate that question because I think it's one of the key components that my secretary, Julie Su, secretary of Labor and Workforce Development Agency, talks about often. And a couple of us always have these conversations around one is getting people with that passion to work in government, one, or, and I brought it up community-based organizations. I think so many times that we didn't work with our CBOs to the level that in government, we should, this administration is very big on working with CBOs and philanthropy groups to make sure that the engagement of those entities are at the highest level. So I would say, students have opportunities to also engage with local CBOs and be that mission, what their values really drives them towards. And that gives them a couple of things to do, right? One is to look at ways that we're helping society in one way or another through those organizations, but it also links them to their own mission and how they can develop those skills around that. But I think the other piece to that is in a lot of these companies that you are working with and that we work with, have their own foundations. So those foundations are amazing. We work with them now, especially in the Newsom administration, more than we ever have. These foundations are really starting to help develop our strategies. My secretary works with a large number of foundations already, and we do as well in terms of strategy, really looking at how do we develop young people's attitudes towards the future, but also skills towards the future? >> Well, you got a pressure cooker of a job. I know how hard it is. I know you're working hard and appreciate what you do. And, and we wish you the best of luck, thank you for sharing this great insight on workforce development. And you guys are working hard. Thank you for what you do. Appreciate it. >> Great. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. >> This is theCUBE coverage and co-production of the Space and Cybersecurity Symposium 2020 with Cal Poly. I'm John Furrier with siliconangle.com and theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (calm music)

>>from San Francisco. It's the Q covering pager duty. Summit 2019. Brought to you by pager Duty. >>Hey, welcome back. You're ready, Jeff? Rick here with the Cube. We're downtown San Francisco at the historic Western St Francis. A pager. Duty summit. It's the fourth year pager duty Summit, 30 year for the Q. Being here, I think they've about outgrown the venue. So he looked forward to seeing where we go next year. But we're excited to have somebody is at a very busy day. A lot of product announcements leading a lot of this effort. He's Jonathan. Randy, this s V P. Of product for pager duty. Jonathan, great to see you. Thanks for having me. So, congratulations. A lot of Ah lot of product announcements today. >>This is our biggest unveiling of the year. >>What s so I don't want you to pick your favorite baby, but what are some of the highlights? That goddess here today? >>Yes, a couple of big things today and tomorrow, not just today. >>Uh, >>first, we're really focused on applying. It is the buzzword of the sense of the new Millennium machine learning, but we're applying it across our entire portfolio, and we're doing it in a good way, not in a creepy way. We're doing in a good way to help organizations make sense of all the data they're getting. Tell him what's happening and, more importantly, what they could do to get better. And so that's something that we call our intelligence Dashboards is part of our analytics products. That's one big one, right? Right. And as you probably know, being here, pager duty is all about helping teams to be more effective in the moments that matter. And one of the other big announcements we have is intelligent triage. And so what is it way See with There's a lot of great companies here, partners that we're working with and whenever they're working, major issues within their companies were seconds, matter or even microseconds. They could lose millions of dollars that work in real time. They'll find out that there's multiple teams working on the same problems on Lee for one team to find out that somebody's undoing some of things that they're doing. So we focused in a huge way on building context, the visibility so that the teams in see what other issues air related That's what we call intelligent triage. So nobody needs to do double work, >>right? It's funny on the on the A I right in machine learning because they are the hot, hot, hot buzzword. But what I don't think are the hot buzzards, which is where all the excitement is happening, is it's the applied A I it's not Aye aye, for a eyes sake. Or were great. Aye aye company with an aye aye widget that we want to sell you. It's really leveraging a I within your core application space, your core domain expertise to make your abs do better things. And that's really what you guys have embraced. >>Absolutely. It's way have to be so empathetic to our users. Are users carry an unbelievable burden. They are on the front lines when things go down. They have, you know, minutes, seconds to make right decisions, and there's a lot of responsibility with that. So we're using a I in applied way to help them make sense of being overloaded with information, focus them in on the things that can make the biggest positive impact right, So it is applied a I in its purest form and >>the other part I found interesting is really anak knowledge mint that it's not just the people that have to fix the problem that needs to know about the problem, but there's a much larger kind of ecosystem that ecosystem around. That problem, whether it's sales reps executive for certain, is a whole bunch of people that should know, need to know, have value, to know beyond just the really smart person that I've now put on fixing the >>problem. You're bringing up a great point, which is a lot of people know page of duty because of how we help technical teams, developers and office people fix these incidents. When they happen right when a site goes down or when something search isn't working correctly but getting work done. We're taking that in its broadest context. It's beyond technical responders. First we have to service them. They're our core audience. They're why we're here today. But that unit of work getting work done goes beyond them as you're saying. It goes to what we call business responders who I could be working in a customer service team and while that incident is happening, I need that information so that I can ready my communication in case somebody calls up the sports desk and opens up a ticket. I need to know what to tell him right when it's gonna be fixed and how we're addressing their problems. Or I could be the CFO, a stakeholder and just want to know what's the real revenue impact of this outage of this time? So whether I'm taking action or I just need to know these air people outside of the sphere of the technical team and their business responders and stakeholders and we're automating the flow of information all of them so that they don't interrupt the poor responders team so they can focus on their work, >>right? Yeah. Another concept that kind of clarified today is all of your guys partnerships. You know, you've listened on your integration page on the Web site. It's clear. Well, data dog sales for Zenda Sumo AWS service now last CNN, IBM Blue mix. I mean, it's they can't go through the whole list. It's a huge list, but I think confusion in the market or maybe clarification is helpful is, you know, kind of where to those systems play versus your system when that Everyone wants to be a system of record, right? Everybody wants to be the database that has all the all the information. And yet you figured out a way to take your capabilities and augment all these other platforms and really puts you in a nice play across a really wide range of a problem. Sets. >>Yeah, it's it's so core to who we are way like to think of our pager duty platform. I always refer to it as it's a central nervous system, and what does that really mean? We always say it's a central nervous system and pager duty is about people. So all of those vendors, all of those companies, they're all valued partners. Many of them are customers of pager duty as well. They use us to keep their service is up on the monitoring world. But what pager duty is always focused on is ensuring that people two people collaboration to get real work done based on the information coming from those folks. So a lot of those vendors out there they play such an invaluable part of the ecosystem. They let us know they provide all the telemetry in the information in the data way, make sense of it and then engage people Finish that work. So in a way, you know that central nervous system is taking all these impulses just like a really central nervous system. And we're engaging the right people to help them effectively get the right right, and we couldn't do it without them. So the famous 350 plus way couldn't do what we do without them, and they're all here today. You >>didn't think I was going to read the whole hunt 350 >>Hope. That would be a long way >>Hades in desk on. And I know that was part of the new customer service and has been getting, you know, kind of your value kind of closer to the actual customer transaction. It's always in support of the customer transactions. The website's down transaction close, but this actually has taken it to the next level toe. Have a direct contact to the person who's actually engaged with the client to give them or inside is what's going on as being resolved in these type thing with a two way communication pattern. >>Yeah, it's something I'm personally really excited about. Where customer of zendesk as well. So we use end us and they use pager duty. So we get a lot of feedback on what's working, what's not working, which informed us and what we were doing. But there's two big problems in the industry that I've seen over, you know, two plus decades, which is customer service and support teams. They're dealing also on the front lines. Having them communicate and get information from development teams isn't always easy. And so both of us are really interested in kind of breaking down the walls between those organizations. But doing so in a way that's not interrupting those teams when they're doing their work that they have, right, so one, that's what we wanted to accomplish. How can we share information seamlessly automatically? So both teams are in sync, but they're not pestering each other and then to that work that's being done on the development side, when something does go wrong in a devil apps world, now, the customer support agents, the service agents they can get ahead of those cases that are being opened up, so they're not in the dark. They're not being flooded by tons of cases being opened up and they don't know what to say. They ready their communications and push it out because they're insane. >>It's really you think pager duty and notifications were surrounded by all these dashboards and computer stuff, but you made a really instant comment. It's all about the people you guys commissioned. A study called I'm gonna read an unplanned work, the human impact of an always on world and really going after unplanned work. Now it's funny, because everyone always talks about unplanned maintenance and on scheduled maintenance and the impacts on aircraft and the impacts on power generation and aircraft. This is the first time I've ever heard anyone couch it as as unplanned, which is completely disruptive fours on people and their lives, not to mention their service workers. And, according to the study, 2/3 of her pissed off and not too happy the way things are going at work anyway, with what kind of was zenith of that. And that's a really great way to reframe this problem into something much more human. >>The genesis of this all came from the concept that a CZ you'll read a lot we say we're always on. Let's keep it that way. Let's help help everyone. Keep it that way. It's a mantra with pager duty, and it comes from again when I say Genesis, it comes from even within our platform way. Don't have me Windows. We are on 24 7 360 days a year way have to be up when other service's aren't because of that. Whenever we work with organizations or vendors that that we pay for. And they say we have a maintenance window like a maintenance window my partner in crime runs engineering team are meant for. He always says maintenance Windows air for cars, not SAS software like there are no maintenance windows. And what that means as a first step is, if that's the case, there's no maintenance windows you're always on. Then you have to answer this question of how much time are you really spending unplanned work interruptions, right? So we really started taking not the heart. We really started trying to figure out what is the percentage everybody's trying to innovate more. That's planned war, right? Is it? 10% is a 20%. Is it 50%? The best organizations we see our 20 to 25% is unplanned work. We'll >>need 25% for the best organization. >>Yeah, so means not. So best organizations are very different, right? And so way feel that we uniquely can help organizations get way better at cutting down that time so that they can innovate more, Right? They're not firefighting. They're actually innovating and growing their business right. That's a big part of how we help people in these organizations do their job better. >>God, that's before you get in contact. Switching and pressure and disruption and >>way found some amazing statistics in my prior life. Iran Engineering. And it was at a sauce company. And what I found was whenever customers, whenever my top engineers would be put on Call Way, didn't have pager duty at the time, and they would be on call and interrupted on consecutive nights in the middle of the night. First, I would typically hear about when somebody was burned out is when I would see a resignation letter on my desk or somebody way no, after two or three or four successive interruptions in someone's personal life that goes on where they feel they're not being productive. One, they aren't productive at work either, to they're a huge retention risk. So way have that kind of data. We can look at it, and we can help management and organizations help them. And their teams take better care of their teams so that, you know, they're they're being more humane, humane knots, not human off pain, All right. And how you deal with those most expensive precious resource is in your company, which are your people is really important >>when they walk out the door every night, you know? So you gotta take care of him. So they come back the next day. It is? Yes. All right, Jonathan, last question is you as we wait, we're not quite done with some yet, but as we come to the closest on her arm really busy year. The AIPO. You guys have done amazing things, but you kind of flipped the calendar. Look forward. What are some of your kind of priorities as we as >>we move forward? Yeah. So it's been a crazy year. A lot of change and a couple things going forward. One were big partners with Amazon in a W S S O were attending reinvent. That's a big event for the company, but also at this event. As I mentioned before, it's probably our biggest unveiling of new innovations and products for our entire 12,000 plus customers. So for us, it may seem like it's an end. It's really just the beginning, because all of these products and intelligent triage business response, intelligent dashboards, these products that are apart, his capabilities that are part of our analytics and events intelligence on the pager duty, platform way have to keep evolving This we have to keep kind of moving forward because the world is always on and we've got to keep it that way. >>What? Andre just had a great line in his keynote about being scared is the generator of wisdom. But here it is, right here. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. Not necessarily fear, but fear getting caught. Keep moving that we have ahead of the pack. All right, Jonathan, Thanks for taking a few minutes and congratulations. I'm sure tough getting all those new babies out this week, but what a great what a great job. Thank you so much. All right. Pleasure. He's Jonathan. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cube. Where? Pager duty Summit in San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from San Francisco. It's the Q covering pager duty Summit 2019. Brought to you by pager Duty. >>Hey, welcome back there. Ready, Geoffrey? Here with the cue, we're pager duty Summit in the historic Western St Francis Hotel, downtown San Francisco. I think they've outgrown the venue. The place is packed to the gills. Standing, rolling, the keynote Really excited of our next guest. Someone who's been to this industry for awhile really done some super cool creative things. He's given the closing keynote. We're happy to have him here right now. That's Mitchell Hashimoto from Hachiko. It's great to see you. >>Good to see you too. Thanks for having >>absolutely so just a quick overview before we get into it on hot chic or for the people in our familiar >>Sure, so hospitals a company that what we try to do is help people adopt cloud, but more, more realistically, Adolfo multi cloud and hybrid cloud the real world complexities. That cloud isn't just a technical landing point, but it's really way You deliver software. You want to deliver more applications, you want to connect them faster. You want to do this in an automated away infrastructure is code of all these modern practices way. Build a suite of tools Thio provisions secure, connect and run those applications for separate products that we sell that you could adopt separately. Good mix and match. That's That's what we've been doing for a long time. Based on open source Software, Way started purely as an open source community and have grown into an enterprise cos that's that's That's the elevator pitch. >>No, it's great, but it's a great story, >>right? Europe, Europe in Seattle got some access to some cloud infrastructure and really solve your own problem. Figured out other people of that problem and then really built a really cool, open source kind of based software company. >>Yeah, I mean, I think the amount of people that had the problem I was facing personally was orders of magnitude more than I expected. I've told other people we never expected to start even a business around this. It was just scratching and building technical solutions. But a CZ, as we sort of worked at startups, started talking a bigger and bigger companies. It just kept everyone kept saying, Yes, I have that problem and it's only grown since then, right surprising, >>and the complexity has only grown exponentially before. The you know, years ago, there was this bright, shiny new object called a W s. I mean, I love Bezos is great line that nobody even paid attention. You have six or seven years. They've got a head start and kind of this Russian. Now there's been a little bit of a fallback as people trying to figure out what to go where now it's hybrid cloud and horses for courses. So a lot of great complexity, which is nothing but good news for you. >>Absolutely. I told this story before, but our first year incorporated company I actually got hung up on by an analyst because I said way we're trying to solve a multi cloud problem and they said that's not a real problem when it will never be a real problem. They hung up on me on it was a bet, then, and and I think they're the expectation that was it was gonna be Eight of us is gonna be physical infrastructure and the physical infrastructure days were numbered. It was gonna get acts out. It was just gonna all go to eight of us and our conviction was that you would have both forever and or for a very long time. And then people like Azure, Google and others would pick up and and that's been true. But I think what we didn't expect, the complexity that got introduced with things like containers in Kubernetes because it's not like Clouded option finished in the next started It all came at once. So now Riel Cos they're dealing with the complexity of their still trying to move the clouds. They're trying to get more out of their physical infrastructure, trying to adopt kubernetes. Now people are starting to peck at them about server list. So there the complexity is is a bit crazy and review our job trying to simplify that adoption make you get the most out of >>right. And that was before you could get a piece of Ian where inside of AWS, get a get a piece of the Google Data Center inside your own data center. So it just continues to get crazier. >>Yes, yeah, So you're giving a closing keynote on a >>new project. You're working on fault, and it's an existing project. Justin cry. They're old, but but I think you talked about before we turn the cameras on. It's really more of a kind of an attitude in a and a point of view and a way to go after the problem. So I wonder if you could kind of dig into a little bit of What did you see? How did you decide to kind of turn the lens a little bit and reframe this challenge? Yeah, >>I think the big picture of story I'm trying to tell him the keynote is that everybody? Anything You look around the technical nontechnical, this table, that glass. Like everything you look at, it trickles back to the idea of one or a small group of people, and it takes an army to make it show up on this table. But it starts by somebody's vision, and everything was created by somebody. So I'm talking about vault, something we made and, you know, why don't we create it? And why do we make it the way we did? And you know, another thing I say is people ask, Why did you start hot record for having this vision? Something I constantly told myself was wine on me. I get someone's gonna do it. Why not make it? Could be anybody, like I'll give it a shot. Why not? And Bolt was that way. We Armand. I'm a co founder. Way took security classes in college, but we don't have a formal security background. We didn't work in security in industry. So the odds of us launching a security product that is so prevalent today whether you know it or not, it's behind the scenes very prevalent were stacked against us. How did that happen? And that's that's sort of what I've been going to talk about. >>Let's go. But do >>dive into a little bit on the security challenge because it's funny, right? Everyone always says, Right. Security's got to be baked in and you've got these complex infrastructure and everything's connected with AP eyes, the other people's applications and, oh yes, delivered through this little thing that you carry around. And maybe the network's not working well or the CPS running low are You're running iPhone five. And of course, it's not gonna work on most modern app. Yeah, bacon security always do, but that's easy to say. It's much harder to do, you know. Still, people want to build moats and castles and drawbridges, and that's just not gonna work anymore. >>Exactly. So you exactly hit upon the two major issues that we recognize there felt we recognize. One was that a lot of people were saying it. Very few people were doing it on. The reality was it was hard to do. Everyone knew theoretically what they should do. No one, no one thought. Oh yeah, saving somebody's personal information in plain text in the daytime. It's a good idea. Nobody thought that Everyone said it should be encrypted, but encryption is hard. So maybe one day, so no one was doing it. And then the other side of it was the people that were doing it where the world's largest companies, because the solutions were catered towards his mindset of of castle and moats, which works totally fine in a physical tradition environment but completely breaks down in a cloud world where there is no four perimeters anymore. It's >>still there, There. >>You're one AP I call away from opening everything to the Internet. So how do you protect this? And we've seen a lot of trends change towards zero Trust and ServiceMaster Mutual feel like there's a lot of stuff that happened way sort of jumped on that. >>Yeah, so So you're using, like, multi level encryption, and I've read a little bit on the website. It's way over my head, I think. But, you >>know, the basics are just making kryptonite. Christian makes security, cloud infrastructure, security approachable by anybody and a core philosophy. Our company, Hashi Hashi Hashi. My name means bridge, and that is a core part of our culture. Which is you can't just have, ah, theoretical thing or a shiny object and leave people hanging. You gotta give them a bridge, a path to get there, right? And so we say, with all our technology, one of the crawl, walk and run adoption periods and with security it's the same is that to say you're secure means something totally different everybody for a bank to be secure, it's a lot more than for a five person started to be secure. So how do you give somebody a solutions they could adopt? Check the security box for themselves at every path of the lake, and bald is one of the tools that way have individuals using it, and we have the world's largest companies, almost 10% of the global 2000 paying customers evolved many more open source users on its scales the entire spectrum. >>Wow. So you keep coming up >>with lots of new, uh, new projects as we get ready to flip the counter to 2020. What are some of the things you're thinking about? >>I think the big one, you know, that our focus is right now is service. Miss Vault is we're big enough company now where we always have teams working on every every one of our projects we have release is going out. The thing we've been talking about the most is the service mess thing. I think Cloud as a mainstream thing, Let's say, has has existed for seven or eight years. It's since it's been released. It's been over in almost 15 but as a thing that people have, that is a good idea. Seven or eight years and you know we've touched security. Now we've touched how infrastructures managed touch developers. I think a place that's been relatively untouched and has gotten by without anyone noticing has been networking and network security. They're they're really doing things the way they've always done things, and I think that's been okay because there's bigger fish to fry. But I think the time has come and networking as a bull's eye on it. And people are looking at What is networking mean in a cloud world and service mash appears to be the way that is gonna happen. Way have our own service mess solution called Council on Our Approaches Standard Hasta Corp. It's nothing new. It's We're gonna work with everything containers, kubernetes, viens physical infrastructure. We're gonna make it all work across multiple data centers. That is our approach service fashion, solving that challenge. >>What's the secret sauce? >>I mean, it's not that secret, right? >>It's just building. Just execute. Better understand that this header >>JD is the problem, right? Right, I said, This is our keynote a couple weeks ago that there are a lot of service messes out there, and nine out of 10 of them are solving a solution for a single environment, whether it's kubernetes or physical environment. And I think that's a problem. But it's not the problem. The problem to me is how do I get my kubernetes instances pods to communicate to my NSX service is on my physical infrastructure. That is the problem as people, whether that's temporary, not and they intend to move the communities or whatever. It's that's the reality. And how do you make that work? And that is what we're focused on solving that problem >>just every time I hear service mess. I think there was a company a while ago that sold the CSC. Probably like 2013. Didn't really get into That is a as a good, happy story. But they were early on the name. Yeah. Yeah. So last thing pager duty were Pedrie. What? You guys doing a page of duty? >>Sure. So we've been I've actually been a paying customer pager duty since before we even made this company in my previous job was a customer wear now, still customers. So we still use it internally. But in addition to that way, do integration across the board. So with terra form our infrastructure provisioning tool way have a way to manage all pager duty as code and as your complexion pager duty rises instead of clicking through a u. I being able to version and code everything and have that realize itself and how he works very valuable from like a service MASH consul standpoint. Hooking in the monitoring to the alerting of Pedro duty is a big thing that we do so tying those together. So it's very symbiotic. I love pager duty as a user and a partner. There's a lot here. >>Yeah, is pretty interesting slide when Jennifer put up in the keynote where it listed so many integration points with so many applications with on the outside looking in and you're like how you're integrating with spunk, that making how you're innovating with service. Now that doesn't make any sense. How Integrated was in Desperate. These were all kind of systems of record, but really, there's some really elegant integration points to make. This one plus one equals three opportunity between these applications. >>Yeah, I think it's very similar to the stuff we do with Walton Security. It's like the core permanence. Everybody needs him like with security. Everyone is an auto. Everyone needs traceability. Everyone needs access control. But rebuilding that functionality and every application is unrealistic. And paging and alerting an on call and events are the same thing. So it's you'd rather integrate and leverage those systems that make that your nexus for that specific functionality. And that's where Page duties. Awesome way. Step in, >>which was always great to catch up. Good luck on your keynote tomorrow. And really, it's a really amazing story to watch that you got You guys have built >>Well, thank you very much. >>All right. He's Mitchell. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cue. Were paid your duty, Simon in downtown San Francisco. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from San Francisco. It's the Q covering pager duty Summit 2019. Brought to you by pager Duty. >>Hey, welcome back there, Right, Jeffrey here with the cue, We're pager duty Psalm in its fourth year page summit Third year The Cube being here at West say, Fritz in downtown San Francisco and tying a pager duty summons up running the Western Frances. We're excited to be joined by our next two guests coming all way across the Pacific Ocean. My media left is Daniel Sultaana, group director for >>Sass for Technology. Want Daniel? Great to see you. Thank you. On his left camera. Network TV production engineer Lee also for technology one woke up. So first question. First time in the States. >>Not the first time. The state of into the states, Many tires. So it's a great comeback. California particular center. It is the >>first time for May, but it's been absolutely great. I got the whole weekend to explore San Francisco. Just one >>good give great. It's a great place thio around, but let's talk about Pedro December 1st time duty, Simon A lot. Actually, 1000 people company I P o. This year, a lot of buzz around here >>Really exciting. Great for pages. Video. I appreciate very similar company to technology wanted. Tim saws terms off genetic heritage. So there's a lot of affiliation between our two companies. >>All right, let's jump into what is technology. >>So technology wanted to Australia's largest enterprise software company. We produce software in a few vertical markets, focusing on higher education, local federal government, asset intensive and healthy. >>All right, so you guys are presenting later today on a really interesting topic referenced in the keynote. Your conversation is having increased customer experiences without burning out your people. I think the official report was unplanned work. The human impact been always on world. This is a really deal. People about the human impact duty, the pager. Peter's got a ring somewhere. You see a big impact in terms of the pressure on the teams to deliver with this kind of consumerism ation of I t expect. And that's >>exactly if you look at the enterprise well. Vanda pauses, expecting consumer response. You know, if your Netflix goes down your home tonight, you want that keeps immediately. It's the same pressure now that we're saying transferring today, it's complicated >>for me on on myself. So implementing these kind of systems that just helps an awful ones really understand and reduce the amount of time that we're spending on those incidents after Alice. >>Right? Because we talk a lot about unplanned downtime and maintenance for here, right on machines. And it's hugely impactful and a lot of conversations about prescriptive maintenance and kind of getting ahead of that. We don't hear that conversation so much about people you got humans about. The humans evolved, and I really interesting take as we go aboard. The complexity of the systems between the 80 eyes and everything's connected is no astronomically more complex. And it wasn't >>it definitely is way usedto have very simple traditional surfaces, but now it's hundreds of different services and applications that only talk together. Managing That's a very different game when it used to be >>right. So how does painting maybe help you? How did you start to build a I machine learning for it to be able to get a triage and more importantly, you know, assigned right tasked with the right people, >>I think first start off with us having many district systems bring that together, falling through. So it's like having many different nations around the world. Trying to talk, but not a common interface on bringing together was a first >>for us. What's next? They're still together, >>still pulling together now, actually understanding what we have turning that into processes that are more efficient, using the technology to move the various conversation alerts and information right ares triage ahead of time before problems actually happening. >>I think the other thing that we're more towards starting to use the diner a lot more to make more valuable got agreement, decisions, a supposed toe, intuition based decisions that we used to make >>right, replace something else that you already had kind of a supplement, >>not replace it. So So if I go back just to the technology wanted a street we're 30 years old started off before the Internet. So as we made this transition from on premises to a sax baseball way, needed tools help us in these multiple always on world. >>So So what? What are the characteristics of the biggest problems come up in terms of application interfaces or no way at all? These things tied together what seems to be the weakest link What is the one that you know most banks Now you can kind of reduced the settings. >>I don't think there's any one specific thing way. Talk about Cole's. An awful lot guards really great causes. It's very rarely ever one simple thing that's caused the problem. It's normally a multiple factors that come into play, and some of that can be. Has the engineer being cold three times. I've not came to what with two hours sleep, >>right? And you said you said you carry a pager and hopefully you don't have it All right Now >>it is on >>its way to switch number inside of me. Have you seen seen a reduction in kind of the pressure call in the qualities stuff that gets through triage and actually make it to the major >>way some stuff, way fix from bed. Now you stop to wake up >>way getting up. >>So we used a pager beauty my bollock way. Have some stuff that we built into that as well. And waken fix things from Ben >>give you exact way, have some issues that take us minutes to resolve. We've managed to bring that down to three >>wise that because better, better tasking of the people. Better identification problems were some things that drive exactly that. >>So it is bringing the multiple inputs into a central place that being interpreted and then being shifted off to the right resources to be able to fix it behind. Or there's no some automated, tacit kickoff. And that just condenses the whole into in process dramatically. So our customers seeing a much greater meantime between failure because we could get on the things a lot faster. >>Okay, so lessons for people thinking about paging me. What would you tell him? Some of your peers that are that are carrying the pager and red eyed way. >>Look, I think managing your PayPal is very important, I think way living in a world where talent is actually hard to secure. So you need to ensure that that talent is protected and looked after well nourished and grows on. So we've just page me to help do that, sure that teams don't burn out to understand what root causes also attack a rock, pools on become more efficient. >>Is there any specific characteristics are attributes in the people leaving? They're in their behavior, things that they do You're measuring as being now less burning? Absolutely >>way. Actually running employee in peace >>So they all just wrote a book. Five. So they get >>Andrea Lee. Something fundamental was around with number out of Dallas. That was That was really died. Other measure its foreign off. I wonder what a >>charity secrets. But when things were not good, orders of magnitude of work was done. Kind of unscheduled, which is causing this angst. How's that? Kind of? Just >>wear multiple hours every night. I'll be, quite frankly, people was on way. Knew that's how far. >>Right? Right, Right. >>Good. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing the story. And good luck. Hopefully nobody else resigns and keep a couple a bunch of happy, happy clients opened out and deliver the great customer experience. Absolutely. Alright, >>stand the camera. Jeff, You're watching the cube? Were some it downtown

>>Live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's the cube covering ansible fest 2019 brought to you by red hat. >>Welcome back, everyone. It's theCUBE's live coverage of ansible fest here in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm John Furrier, with my cohost Stu Miniman We're here at Stephanie Chiras, the Vice President and  general manager of the REL Business Unit. Red Hat. Great to see you. We need to see to interview of all your, through your career at IBM. That one gets pulled back back in the fold. Yeah. So last time we chatted at red hat summit, REL8, how's it going? What's the update? >>Yeah, so we launched at summit was a huge opportunity for us to sort of show it off to the world. A couple of key things we really wanted to do there was make sure that we showed up the red hat portfolio. It wasn't just a product launch, it was really a portfolio launch. Um, feedback so far on relate has been great. Um, we have a lot of adopters on their early, it's still pretty early days when you think about it. It's been about, you know, a little over for four or five months. So I'm still early days. The feedback has been good. It's, you know, it's actually interesting when you run a subscription based software model because customers can choose to go to eight when they need those features and when they assess those features and they can pick and choose how they go. But we have a lot of folks who have areas of Reli that they're testing the feature function of. >>I saw a tweet you had, uh, on your Twitter feed, 28 years old, still growing up. Still cool. I mean, 20 years old is, yeah, it's out in the real world and adults, >>no, no. Lennox is run in the enterprises now and now it's about how do you bring new innovation in? When we launched drill eight, we focused really on two sectors. One was how do we help you run your business more efficiently and then how do we help you grow your business with innovation? One of the key things we did, um, which is probably the one that stuck with me the most was we actually partnered with the red hat management organization and we pulled in the capability of what's called insights into the product itself. So all carbon subscription six, seven, eight all include insights, which is a rules based engine built upon the data that we have from, you know, over 15 years of helping customers run large scale Linux deployments. And we leverage that data in order to bring that directly to customers. And that's been huge for us. And it's not only, it's a first step into getting into ansible. Right. >>I want to get your thoughts on where here at ansible Fest Day, one of our two day coverage, the red hat announced the ansible automation platform. Yep. I'll see you. That's the news. Why is this show so important in your mind? I mean you see the internal, you've seen the history of the industries. A lot of technology changes happening in the modern enterprise is now as things become modernized, both public sector and commercial, what's the most important thing happening? Why is this ansible fest so important this year? >>Um, to me it comes down to I'd say kind of two key things. Management and automation are becoming one of the key decision makers that we see in our customers. And that's really driven by they need to be efficient with what they have running today and they need to be able to scale and grow into innovation platforms. So management and automation is a core critical decision points. I think the other aspect is, you know, Linux started out 28 years ago proving to the world how open source development drives innovation. And that's what you see here at ansible fest. This is the community coming together to drive innovation. Supermodular able to provide impact, right from everything, from how you run your legacy systems to how you bring security to it, into how do you bring new applications and deploy them in a safe and consistent way. It spans the whole gambit. >>So Stephanie, you know, there's so much change going on in the industry. You talked about, uh, that you know what's happening in. I actually saw a couple of hello world, uh, tee shirts, uh, which were given out at summit in Boston this year. Uh, maybe help tie together how ansible fits into this. How does it help customers, you know, take advantage of the latest technology and, and, and, and move their companies along to be able to take advantage of some of the new features. >>Yeah. And, and so I really believe of course that, um, an open hybrid cloud, which is our vision of where people want to go. You need Linux. So Lennox sits at the foundation, but to really deploy it in an in, in a reasonable way, in a safe way, in a efficient way, you need management and automation. So we've started on this journey when we launched, we announced at summit that we brought in insights in, that was our first step included in, we've seen incredible uptick. So, um, when we launched, we've seen 87% increase since May. In the number of systems that are Linkedin, we're seeing 33% more increase in coverage of rules-based and hundred and 52% increase in customers who are using it. What that does is it creates a community of people using and getting value from it, but also giving value back because the more data we have, the better the rules get. >>So one interesting thing at the end of May, the engineering team, um, they worked with all the customers that currently have insights, linkedin and they did a scan for um, spectrum meltdown, which of course everyone knows about in the industry. Um, with the customers who had systems hooked up, they found 176,000 customer systems that were vulnerable to spectrum meltdown. What we did was we had an ansible playbook that could remediate that problem. We proactively alerted those customers. So now you start to see problems get identified with something like insights. Now you bring in ansible and ansible tower, you can effectively decide, do I want to remediate? I can remediate automatically. I can schedule that remediation for what's best for my company. So, you know, we've tied these three things together kind of in this step wise function. In fact, if you have a real subscription, you've hooked up to insights. >>If insights finds an issue, there's a fix it by and with ansible a playbook, now I can use that playbook and ansible tower. So really ties through nicely through the whole portfolio to be able to do everything and in it also creates collaboration to these playbooks. Can Be Portable, move across the organization. Do it once. That's the automation piece. Is that, yeah, absolutely. So now we're seeing automation. How do you look at it across multiple teams within an organization? So you could have a tower, a tower Admin, be able to set rules and boundaries for teams. I can have an RL rights, um, it operations person be able to create playbooks for the security protocols. How do I set up a system? Being able to do things repeatedly and consistently brings a whole lot of value in security and efficiency. >>Yeah. Uh, w one of the powers of ansible is that it can live in a heterogeneous environment and you've got your windows environment. You know, I've talked to vmware customers that are using it and, and, and of course in cloud help help us understand kind of the, the rel, you know, why rel plus ansible is a, you know, an optimal solution for customers in those heterogeneous environment. And what I would love, I heard a little bit in the keynote about kind of the roadmap where it's going. Maybe you can talk to about where, where are those, would those fit together? >>Yeah. Perfect. And I think your, your comment about heterogeneous world is, is Keith, that is the way we live. And um, folks will have to live in a heterogeneous as, as far as the eye can see. And I think that's part of the value, right? To bring choice. When you look at what we do with rail because of the close collaboration we have between my team and, um, the team that in the management, bu around insights, our engineering team is actively building rules. So we can bring added value from the sense of we have our red hat engineers who build rail creating rules to mitigate things, to help things with migration. So, um, you asked about brel aid and adoption, we put in in place upgrades of course in the product, but also there's a whole set of rules curated, supported by red hat that help you upgrade to relate from a prior version. So it's the tight engineering collaboration that we can bring. But to your point, it's, you know, we want to make sure that ansible and ansible tower and the rules that are set up bring added value to rail and make that simple. But it does have to be in a heterogeneous world. I'm going to live with neighbors in any data center. Right, >>of course. Yeah. One of the pieces of the announcement that talked about collections a, is there anything specific from, from your team that which should be pointed out about from a collections and the platform announcements? >>Election starts to start to grow. Um, and it brings out sort of that the simplicity of being pulled to it, pulled playbooks and roles and pull that all into one spot. We'll be looking at key scenarios that we pulled together that mean the most Eurail customers. Migration of course is one. We have other spaces of course, where we work with key ecosystem partners. Of course SAP running on rail has been a big focus for us in partnership with SAP. We have a playbook for installing SAP Hana on rel, so this collaboration will continue to grow. I think collections offers a huge opportunity for a simpler experience to be able to kind of do a automated solution if you will. Kind of on your floor automation for all. That's the theme here. That's right. Want to get your thoughts on the comment you made about the analytical analytics capability inside rail. >>This seems to be a key area for insights tying the two things together, so kind of cohesive but d decoupled. I see how that works. What kind of analytical capabilities are you guys serving up today and what's coming around the corner? Cause your environments are changing. A hybrid and multi-cloud are part of what everyone's talking about. Take care of the on premises first. Take care of the public cloud. Now hybrids, now an operating model has to look the same. This is a key thing. What kind of new capabilities of analytics do you see coming? So let me step you through that a little bit cause cause your point is exactly right. Our goal is to provide a single experience that can be on prem or off prem and provides value across both as, as you choose to deploy. So insights, which is the analytics engine that we use built upon our data. >>You can have that on-prem with rail. You can have it off prem with rail in the public cloud. So where we have data coming in from customers who are running rel on the public cloud. So that provides a single view. So if you, if you see a security vulnerability, you can scan your entire environment, which is great. Um, I mentioned earlier, the more people we have participating, the more value comes. So new rules are being created. So as a subscription model, you get more value as you go. And you can see the automation analytics that was announced today as part of the platform. So that brings analytics capabilities to my, you know, first to be able to see what, who's running, what, how much value they're getting out of analytics. That the presentation by JP Morgan Chase was really compelling to see the value that automation is delivering to them. >>For a company to be able to look at that in a dashboard with analytics automation, that's huge value. They can decide, do we need to leverage it here more? Do we need to bring it value value here? Now you combine those two together, right? It's it and being informed as the best. I want to get your reaction, Tony, we made a comment on our openings to align our opening segment around the JP Morgan comment, you know, hours, two minutes, two minutes, depending upon what the configuration is. Automation is a wonderful thing where we're pro automation, as you know, uh, we think it's gonna be a huge category, but we took a, um, uh, a survey and set our community and we asked our practitioners in our community members about automation and they came back with the following. I wanna get your reaction for major benefits. Automation focused efforts allows for better results. >>Efficiency, security is a key driver and all this. You mentioned that automation drives job satisfaction and then finally the Infrastructure Dev ops folks are getting re-skilled up the stack as the software abstraction. Those are the four main points of why is impacting enterprise. Do you agree with that? Could you have any comments on some of those points? No, I do. I agree. I think skills is one thing that we've seen over and over again. Um, skills is, skills is key. Um, we see it in Linux. We have to help write bridge window skills into Linux skills. I think automation that helps with skills development helps not only individuals but helps the company. Um, I think the second, second piece that you mentioned about job satisfaction, at the end of the day, all of us want to have impact and when you can leverage automation for one individual to have impact, right, that that is much broader than they could do before with manual tasks. >>That's just, that's just stu and I were talking also about the, one of the keynote key words that kept on coming out in the, in the keynote was scale scales driving a lot of change in the industry at many levels. Certainly software automation drives more value when you have scale because you're scaling more stuff. You can manually configure this stuff at scale. So software certainly is going to be a big part of that. But the role of cloud providers, the big cloud providers, I see IBM, Amazon, all the big enterprises like Microsoft, they're driving massive scale. So there's a huge change in, oh, the open source community around how to deal with scale. This is a big topic of conversation. What's your thoughts on this? Any general opinions on how the scale is in the open source equation? Is it more towards platforms, less tools, vice versa? >>Is there any trends you see? I think it's interesting because I think when I think of scale, I think both, um, volume, right? Or quantity as, as the hyperscalers do. I think also it's about complexity. I think. I think the public clouds have great volume that they have to deal with in numbers of systems, but they have the ability to customize leveraging development teams and leveraging open source software. They can customize, they can customize all the way down to the servers and the processor chips as we know, um, for most folks, right? They scale, but when they scale across on prem and off prem, it's adding complexity for them. And I think automation has value both in solving volume issues around scale, but also in complexity issues around scale. So even, you know, mid size businesses, if they want to leverage on prem and Off-prem to them, that's complexity scale. >>And I think automation has a huge amount of value to bring that abstracts away. The complexity automation provides the job satisfaction, but also the benefits of efficiency. Absolutely. And to me the greatest value of efficiency is now there's more time to bring in innovation. Right? It's a, it's a Stephanie, a last thing I was wondering, what feedback are you hearing from customers? You know, one of the things that struck me, we were talking about the JP Morgan is they made great progress, but he said they had about a year of working with the security of the cyber, the control groups to help get them through that knothole of allowing them to really deploy automation. So you know, usually something like ansible, you'd, oh, I can get a team, >>let me get it going, but oh wait, no, hold on. Corporate needs to make its way through what is, is that something you hear generally? Is that a large enterprise thing? You know, what, what, what are you hearing >>from your customers that you're talking about? I think, I think we see it more and more and it came up in the discussions today. The technical aspect is one aspect. The sort of cultural or the the ability to pull it in is a whole separate aspect. And you think that technology for right, all of us who are engineers, we think Coldwell, that's the tough bit, but actually the culture bit is just as hard. One thing that I see over and over again is the way companies are structured has a big impact. The more siloed the teams are, do they have a way to communicate? Because fixing that so that when you bring in automation, it has that ability to sort of drive more ubiquitous value across. But if you're not structured to leverage that, it's really hard if your it ops guys don't talk to the application folks. >>Bringing that value is very hard. So I think it is kind of going along in parallel, right? The technical capabilities is one aspect. How you get your organization structured to reap the benefits is another aspect. Um, and it's a journey that's, that's really what I see from folks. It is a journey. And um, I think it's inspiring to see the stories here when they come back and talk about it. But to me the most, the greatest thing about is just start, right? Just start wherever you are. And our goal is to try and help on ramps for folks wherever their journey is. >>It's a great option for people's careers and certainly the modernization of the enterprise and public sector and governments from how they procure technology to how they deploy it and consume it is radically changing a lens very quickly by the way to scale and these things are happening. Yeah, I've got to get your take, and I want to get your expert opinion on this because you've again been in the industry, you have so many different experiences. The cloud one dato was the era of compute storage. Startups can start at an airbnb start. All these companies are examples of, you know, cloud scale. But now as we started to get into the impact to businesses in the enterprise with hybrid cloud, there's a cloud 2.0 equation again. We mentioned observability was just network management, like white space, small category, which you know, companies going public. It's that important now kind of subsystem of cloud 2.0 automation seems to feel the same way we believe. What's your definition of cloud 2.0 cloud one Datto is simply stand up some storage and compete. Use the public cloud and cloud 2.0 enterprise. What does that mean to you? What does, how would you describe cloud 2.0 >>so my view is cloud one. Dot. Oh, was all about capability. Cloud two, Datto is all about experience and that is bringing a whole new way that we look at every product in the stack, right? It has to be a seamless, simple experience. And that's where automation and management comes in and spades. Um, because all of that stuff you needed in capability, having it be secure, having it be reliable, resilient, all of that still has to be there. But now you're now you need the, so to me it's all about the experience and how you pull that together and that's why we're hoping, you know, I'm thrilled here to be an ansible fest because the more I can work with the teams that are doing ansible and insights in the management aspect and the automation, it'll make the real experience better. Software drives it all. Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for sharing your insights on the queue. Pleasure coming back on. And great to see you. Great to be here. Good to see you about coverage here in Atlanta. I'm Sean first. Stu Miniman cube coverage here at ansible fest. More coverage after the short break. We'll be right back.

>> live from Washington D. C. It's the Cube covering aws public sector summit DC brought to you by Amazon Web services. >> Welcome back, everyone to the cubes Live >> coverage of a ws public sector summit here in Washington D. C. I'm your >> host Rebecca Night, along with my co host, John >> Furrier. We're here with Cory Quinn, Cloud Economist The Duck Billed group and a cube host at large. Welcome. Welcome to our show. A medium >> at best, most days. But we'll see what happens when ever expanding. Someday I'll be a 10 x engineer, but not today. >> Right? Right. Exactly. >> Next host. Exactly. >> There we go, >> Cloud. Stand up on the side. We need to mention that >> Yes, generally more cloud improv. But no one believes that. It's off the cuff. So we smile, we nod, we roll with Tio. Yeah, no one wants to hear me sing in any form. >> I promise. Strapping So, Cory, you have been here. You are on the ground having great conversations with people here. 18,000 people at this summit Give us give our viewers a low down on the vibe. The energy What? What do you hear? Very different >> feeling in the commercial summits you're seeing. People are focusing on different parts of the story, and one thing I find amusing is talking to people who work in the public sector. Show up in their first response is, Oh, I'm so behind and then you go to the commercial summit. You talk to people who are doing bleeding edge things, and their response is, Oh, I'm so behind and everyone thinks that they're falling behind the curve and I'm >> not sure how >> much of that is a part of people just watching a technology. Events outpace them versus the ever increasing feature velocity. If they show on slide year over year over year, consistent growth and people feel like they're being left in the dust, it's it's overwhelming. It's drinking from a fire hose. And I don't think that that gets any easier when you're talking to someone in public sector where things generally move in longer planning cycles because they definitional have to, and I'd argue should, >> but you should help them, make them feel better and say, Don't worry. The private sector feels the same way. Not just everyone >> has these problems. That's that's the poor little challenge of this is everyone believes that if you go to the one magic company, their environment is going to be wonderful. They're adopting everything. It doesn't exist. I've gone into all of the typical tech companies you would expect and talk to people. And everyone wants you for three or four drinks into them, gets very honest and starts crying. What would its higher fire their own environment is? It says a lot of conference. We're going around. Here's how we built this amazing thing as a proof of concept is what the part they don't say or for this one small, constrained application. People are trying to solve business problems, not build perfect architecture. And that's okay. >> Yeah, process. They're not. They're not businesses, their agencies. As you said, they're like, slow as molasses when it comes to moving speed. And you could even see Andy Jazzy during his fireside Shep. He's already studying, laying the groundwork. Well, >> once you're in the >> cloud, here's how you know the adoption level so you can see that it's land not landing expand like the enterprise, which is still slow. It's land, get the adoption and then expand, So the public sector clearly has a lot of red tape. I mean, no doubt about it. >> That means anyone who'd argue that point >> chairman's like 1985. It's like, you know, hot tub time machine, you know, nightmare. But Andy Jazz, he also says on differently to heavy lifting is what they want to automate away. That's the dream. That's the That's the goal. Absolute. It's hard. This is the real challenge. Is getting the public sector adopted getting the adoption, your thoughts when what you're hearing people are they jumping in? They put a toe in the water, kicking the tires. As Andy said, >> all of the above and more. I think it's a very broad spectrum and they mentioned there. I think they were 28,000 or 12,000 non profit organizations that they wind up working with as customers and they all tend to have different velocities across the board as they go down that path. I think that the idea that there's one speed or you can even draw a quick to line summary of all the public sector is a bit of a Basile explanation. I see customers are sometimes constrained by planning cycles. There's always the policies and political aspects of things where if you wind up trying to speed things up, you're talking to some people who will not have a job. If you remove the undifferentiated heavy lifting because that's been their entire career, we're going to help you cut waste out of your budget. Well, that's a hard sell to someone who is incentivized based upon the size of the budget that they control it. You wind up with misaligned incentives, and it's a strange environment. But the same thing that I'm seeing across the corporate space is also happening in public sector. We're seeing people who are relatively concerned about where they're going to hire people from what those people look like, how they're going to transform their own organizations. Digital transformations, attired term. >> And it's like you have rosy colored glasses on too much. You're gonna miss the big picture. You gotta have a little bit of skepticism. I think to me governments always had that problem where I'm just gonna give up. I'm telling different. I can't get the outcome I want, because why even try? Right? I think now, with cloud what I hear Jazzy and Amazon saying is. Hey, at least you get some clear visibility on the first position of value, so there's some hope there, right? So I think that's why I'm seeing this adoption focus, because it's like they're getting the customers. For instance, like I'm a university. I could be a professor, but my credit card down my university customer, I got a couple instances of PC to so ding and another one to the 28,000 >> exactly number of customers is always a strange >> skeptical there. But now, for the first time, you, Khun got should go to a team saying, Hey, you know all that B s about not get the job done, you can get it with clouds. So it's gettable. Now it's attainable. It's not just aspirations. >> Movers really will make the difference. In the end, with the university customer's question, the people who were in that swing >> the tide can that be a generational shift, a deb ops mindset in government? That's a big question. >> Well, they have some advantages. For example, we took a look at all the Gulf cloud announcements and the keynote yesterday, and that must have been a super easy keynote to put together because they're just using the traditional Kino slides and reinvent 2014 because it takes time to get things certified as they moved through the entire pipeline process. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But the services that are going into come cloud or things that are tried and tested in a lot of other environments. There's an entire community out there. There's an established body of knowledge. So a lot of the path that government is walking down has already been from a technical perspective paid for them. >> I want to riff on an idea on to make a proposal with you here in real time. You're I think what we should do is make a proposal to the U. S. Government that we basically take equity in the agencies and then take them public. >> That's not a bad idea, absolutely not about commercialized. >> The entities create a stock option program, Cory, because listen, if I'm if I'm a talent, why would I gotta work for an agency when I could make three times Mohr get public and be rich, and that's the problem with talent. You walk around the expo for here. The booths are much smaller, and I didn't understand that at first, and then it clicked for me. If you want to sell services to government, you don't buy a bigger booth. You buy a Congress person and it turns out those air less expensive. That's how acquisitions tend to work in this space. So folks walking around or not, generally going to be the customers that buy things. People walking around in many cases are the talent and looking for more talent. And it does become extremely compelling to have those people leave public sector and go into private sector. In some cases where we'll pay you three times more and added bonus most days, this is America. After all, no one's shooting at you, so that does your >> cloud. Economists were kind of joking about your title, but if you think about it, there are economics involved. It's lower cost, faster, time to value. But what we're getting at is an incentive system. So you think fiscal monetary policy of incentives. So you know, Rebecca, this this This is the challenge that the policy guys gotta figure because the mechanisms to get stuff done is by the politicians or do this or do that. We're getting at something, really, to the heart of human beings, that mission of the mission of the agency or objective they're doing for the labor of love or money? Yes, Reed, why not create an incentive system that compensate? >> You think That's incentive system for taxpayers, though, too, in the sense of >> if I can see the trillions of dollars on the >> budget, a lot of what >> governments do shouldn't necessarily be for sale. I think the idea of citizen versus customer tends to be a very wide divergence, and I generally pushback on issues to attempt, I guess, convinced those into the same thing. It's you wind up with a very striated, almost an aristocracy Socratic society. >> I don't think that tends >> to lead anywhere. Good way. Everyone is getting political today for some reason. >> Well, I >> mean fireside chat to digital >> transformations. People process technology. You can superimpose that onto any environment where those public policy or whatever or national governments, the people, his issues there, processes, issues, technologies is each of one of them have their own challenge. Your thoughts on public sectors challenges opportunities. Four people process technology. >> You have to be mission driven for starters in order to get the people involved. As far as the processes go, there are inherently going to be limitations sometimes and easily observable in the form of different regulatory regimes that apply to these different workloads. And when we talk about the technology well, we're already seeing that that is becoming less of a gap over time. What used to be that o on ly we can secure a data center well enough from a physical security standpoint, there's a quote from the CIA that said on its worst day that cloud was cloud. Security was better than any on premises environment that they could build. And there's something to be said for that. Their economies of scale of like by >> the tech gaps going away. Almost zero yes. So if that OK, text, good check training fault of the people side. Absolute awareness competency processes a red tape automation opportunity. That could be. >> But this is also not to assume that the commercial world has unlock either. Where does the next generation come from? You talk to most senior cloud folks these days and most of us tend to have come up from working help desks being grumpy, you nexus in men's or you nexus movement because it's not like there's a second kind of those and we go up through a certain progression. Well, those jobs aren't there anymore. They've been automated away. The road that we walked is largely closed. Where does the next generation come from? I don't have a great answer. >> Talent question is a huge one. This is going to be the difference. Rebecca. We were riffing on this on our opening. >> It's the only one. >> Your thoughts. I mean, were you even hearing all this stuff and you've been researching this? What? Your thoughts. >> I think that we need to think more. I think tech companies need to think more broadly about where they're going to get this next generation of people, and they don't need to necessarily be people who have studied CS in school. Although, of course we need those people too. >> But the people with the bright, the creative, the expansive world views who are thinking about these problems and can learn >> the tech, I mean the tough guy, you know why >> block change you into a nice CEO and everyone gets >> rich, but I think when Jessie was saying today during his fireside, in the sense of we need to make sure that we're building tools, that >> you don't need to be a machine learning expert to deploy, you know we need to make simpler, more intuitive tools, and then that's really important here. >> Amazon does well in that environment about incentives. >> I think that >> one thing that the public sector offers that you don't often see in the venture start of world or corporate America or corporate anywhere, for that matter, is the ability to move beyond next quarter, planning the ability to look at long term projects like What >> does >> it take to wind up causing significant change across the world? Where is it take to build international space Station? You're not gonna be able to ship those things 180 days, no matter how efficiently you build things. And I think that the incentives and as you build them, have to start aligning with that. Otherwise you wind up with government trying to compete on compensation with the private sector. I don't think that works. I think you may have an opportunity to structure alignments around sentence in a very different life. >> It's an open item on the compensation. Until they agree, we'll watch. It was ideas. We'll see what tracks. But to me, in my opinion, what I think's gonna be killer for game game one here. This of this revolution is the people that come out of the woodwork because cloud attracts attract smart people and smart people are leaning into the government with cloud. It was the other way around before the cloud people, I don't want to get involved in government, and that was a big ding on government attracting qualified people. So I think Cloud is going to attract some smart people that want to help for the purpose and mission of whatever the outcome of that political or agency or government initiative with a cyber security there. People will care about this stuff who want the social equity not so much, >> Yeah, I think that's >> going to be a wild card. I think we're going to see like a new might in migration of talented people coming into quote assist government. That's a work for government to figure out how to be better at whatever the competition is and that is going to be I think the first lever of you start to see new names emerge. This person who just changed the organization over here become a hero Dev Ops mindset being applied to new environments. >> And we've seen that to some extent with the U. S. Digital service with 18 half where you have industry leaders from the commercial side moving into public sector and working in government for a time and then matriculating back into the public sector and the private sector, I think that there winds up being a lot of opportunity for more programs like that of scaling this stuff out >> and career change and career passer tissue. And there is this more fluid iti. As you're saying, >> I think that money isn't everything. You know. There's a lot of research that shows up to a certain threshold of income. You >> don't get that much happier. I don't know if Jeff >> basis is that much happier than us. I mean, >> we live in a little more bank and say, you know, >> you see the other side of it, too, is you build all these things together where you have okay. What? >> What is it >> that moves people? What do they care about. It's not just money, and I think that the old styled the old are very strict hierarchy within organizations where things are decided by tenure. Service is a bit of a problem if you have someone who works for. The EPA has been doing a deep dive cloud work for 10 years. There's nothing specific to the EPA about what that person has mastered. They shouldn't be able to laterally transition into the FDA, for example, >> Jackson Fireside Chat, Those interesting point about the fire phone that they talked about. And this is the transfer ability of skill sets and you getting at the thing that I will notice is that with Cloud attracts this interdisciplinary skill sets so you don't have to be just a coder. You khun, note how code works and be an architect, or you could be a change agent some somewhere else in an organization. So that's >> going to >> be interesting. That's not necessarily what how governments have always been siloed right? So can can these silos can these old ways of doing things. This is the question. This is why it's fun to cover this market. >> We're already >> seeing that in the public sector were being able to write code is rapidly transitioning into a very being very similar to I can speak French. Great. That's not a career in and of itself. That's a skill sad that unlocks of different right. A different career paths forward, but it doesn't wind up saving anything. It doesn't want a preserving its own modern aristocracy path forward or >> use the building an example. I don't have to learn how to pour concrete organ, right? The blueprints. Yes. So as we start getting into these systems conversations, you're going to start to see these different skill sets involved. Huge opportunity. If >> you're in >> school today and you're studying computer science, great learned something else, too, because the intersection between that and other spaces are where the knish opportunities are. That's the skill set of the future. That's where you're going to start seeing opportunities. Do not just succeed personally, but start to change the world. >> But Cory Great. Thanks for coming on and make an appearance and sharing what you found on the hallways. Good to see you. Coop con in Europe. Thanks for holding down the fort there. >> Of course I appreciate it. It was an absolute Bonner. >> Excellent. Great. Well, thank you so much. Thank >> you. I'm Rebecca Knight for John Furrier. Stay tuned. You are watching the Cube.

>> Live from Stanford University it's theCUBE. Covering Global Women in Data Science Conference. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Women in Data Science fourth annual global conference. I'm Lisa Martin here at the Arrillaga Alumni Center at Stanford joined by, a WiDS speaker and Standford alum Madeleine Udell. You are now an assistant professor at Cornell University. Madeleine welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you it's great to be here. >> So this is your first WiDS. >> This is my first WiDS. >> But you were at Stanford a few years ago when the WiDS movement began. So tell us a little bit about what you do at Cornell. The research that you do, the classes that you teach, and the people men and women that you work with. >> Sure so at Cornell I'm studying optimization and machine learning. I'm really interested in understanding low dimensional structure in large messy data sets. So we can figure out ways of looking at the data set that make them seem cleaner, and smaller, and easier to work with. I teach a bunch of classes related to these topics. PhD classes on optimization and on optimization for machine learning. But one that I'm really excited about is an undergrad class that I teach called, Learning With Big Messy Data. That introduces undergraduates to what messy data sets look like which they often don't see in their undergraduate curriculum. And ways to wrangle them into the kinds of forms that they could use with other tools that they have learned about as undergraduates. >> You say messy, big messy data. >> Yes. >> With a big smile on your face. >> Yes. >> So this is something that might be introduced to these students as they enter their PhD program. Define messy data and some applications of it. >> Often times people only learn about big messy data when they go to industry and that's actually how I understood what these kinds of data sets looked like. I took a break from my PhD while my advisor was on sabbatical and I scampered off to the Obama 2012 campaign, and on the campaign they had these horrible data sets. They had you know hundreds of millions or rows. One for every voter in the United States, and maybe tens of thousands of columns about things that we knew about those voters. And they were weird kinds of things, right? They were things like gender, which in this data set was boolean, State, which took one of fifty values, Approximate education level, Approximate income weather or not they had voted in each of the last elections and I looked at this and I was like I don't know what to do, right? these are not numbers, right? They are boolean, they're categorical they're ordinals and a bunch of the data was missing so there were many people for which we didn't know their level of education or we didn't know their approximation of income or we didn't know weather or not they had voted in the last elections. So with this kind of horrible data set how do you do like basic things, how do you cluster, how do you even visualize this kind of data set so I came back to my PhD thinking, I want to figure out how this works I want to figure out the right way of approaching this data set Cause a lot of people would just sort of hack it and I wanted to understand what's really going on here what's the right model to think about this stuff. >> So that really was quite influential in the rest of your PhD and what your doing now, cause you found this interesting but also tangible in a way, right? especially working with a political campaign >> That's right so, I mean I'm both interested in the application and I'm interested in the math so I like to be able to come back to Stanford at the time we're now at Cornell and really think about what the mathematical structure is of these data sets what are good models for what the underlying latent spaces look like, but then I also like to take it back to people in industry, take it back to political campaigns but you know here at WiDS I'm excited to tell people about the kinds of mathematics that can help you deal with this kind of data set more easily. >> Did you have a talk this afternoon called filling in missing-- >> Yup >> Data with low rank models >> that's right >> One of the things before we get into that, that id love to kind of unpack with you is looking at, taking the campaign Obama 2012 campaign messy data as an example of something that is interesting there's a lot of science and mathematics behind it but there's also other skill I'd like to get your perspective on and that's creativity that's empathy it's being able to clearly understand and communicate to your audience, Where do those other skills factor into what you do as a professor and also the curriculum you're teaching >> Sure, I think they are incredibly important if you want your technical work to have an impact you need to be able to communicate it to other people you need to make, number one make sure you are working on the right problems which means talking to people to figure out what the right problems are and this is one aspect that I consider really fundamental to my career is going around talking to people in industry about what problems they are facing that they don't know how to solve, right? Then you go back to your universities you squirrel away and try and figure it out, often sometimes I can't figure it out on my own so I need to put together a team, I need to pull in other people from other disciplines who have the skills I don't have in order to figure out the full solution to the problem, right? Not just to solve the part of the problem that I know how but to solve the full problem I can see and so that also requires a lot of empathy and communication to make the team actually produce something more than what the individual members could. Then the third step is to communicate that result back to the people who could actually use it and put it into practice, and for that you know that's part of the reason I'm here at WiDS is to try show people the useful things I think that I've come up with but I'm also really excited to talk to people here and understand what gnarly problems do they not know how to solve yet. >> There's a lot of gnarly problems out there, love that you brought that word up >> (laughter) >> But I'm just curious before we go further is understanding did you understand when you was studying mathematics, computational engineering data science did you understand at that point the other important skills. A collaboration of communication or did you discover that along the way and is that something that is taught today to those students these are the other things we want to develop in you >> Yeah I think we barely teach those skills, >> Really? I think at the earliest level there's a lot of focus on the technical skills and it's hard to see the other skills that are going to enable you to get from 90 to 100% but that 90 to 100% is the most important part. Right? If you can't communicate your results back then it doesn't do so much good to have produced the results in the first place, >> Right but really a lot of the education right now at most universities is focused on the technical core and you can see that in the way we evaluate student, right? We evaluate them on their homework which are supposed to be individual on their test performance, right? maybe their projects and the projects I think are much better at helping them develop these skills of communication and teamwork, but that's you know not included in most courses because frankly it's hard to do it's hard to teach students how to work on projects It's hard to get them topics, it's hard to evaluate their results on their projects it's hard to give them time to present it to a group, but I think these are critical skills, right? The project work is much more what works becomes after they finish their studies. >> As you've been in the STEM fields for quite a while and gone so far in your academic career, tell me about the changes that you've seen in the curriculum and do you think you're going to have a chance to influence some of those other skills communication when I was in grad school studying biology, communication a long time ago was actually part of it for a semester but I'm just wondering do you think that this is something that a movement like WiDS could help inspire. >> I think it's important to help people see what, the skills they are going to need to use down the line I think that sometimes, the thing is I think that the technical foundation is really important and I think that doubling down on that particularly when your young and can concentrate on the, on the nitty gritty details I actually think that's something that becomes harder as you get older And so focusing on that for people on their undergrad and early PDH I think that actually makes sense but you want them to see what the final result is, right? You want them to see like what is their career and how is that different from what they are doing right now So I think events like WiDS are really great for showcasing that but I would also like to sort of pull that forward, to pull that project work forward, to the extent possible with the skills that the students have at any point in their curriculum in the class that I teach in big messy date the cap stone of the course is, class project where the students tackle a big messy data set that they find on their own, they define the problems and the form of what they are supposed to produce is supposed to be a report to their manager, right? To say the project proposal says, "manager this is why I should be allowed to work on this "project for the next month because it's so important "it's really going to drive growth in our business it's going to "open up new markets" But they're supposed to describe it industry terms not just academic terms, right? Then they try and figure out actually how to solve the problem and at the end they're supposed to once again write a report that's describing how what they found will help and impact the business >> That element of persuasion is key-- >> That's right that's right >> So the last thing here as we wrap up this is the fourth annual women in data science conference that I mentioned in the opening. The impact and the expansion that they have been able to drive in such a short period of time is something that I always loved seeing every year there's is a hundred and fifty plus regional events going on they're expected to reach a hundred thousand people what excites you about the opportunity that you have to present here at Stanford later today? >> I think that it's amazing that there is so many people that are excited about WiDS, I mean I can't travel to a hundred and fifty locations certainly not this year, not in many many years so the ability to, to be in touch with so many people in so many different places is really exciting to me I hope that they will be in touch with me too that direction is a little be harder with current technology but I want to learn from them as well as teaching them. >> Well Madeleine thank you so much for sharing some of your time with me this morning on theCUBE we appreciate that, and wish you good luck on your WiDS presentation this afternoon >> It was really fun to talk with you, thank you for having me here >> Ah my pleasure >> We want to thank you, you're watching theCUBE live from the forth annual women in data science conference WiDS here at Stanford, I'm Lisa Martin stick around I'll be right back after a break with my next guest. 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>> Announcer: Live from Orlando, Florida it's theCUBE. Covering .conf18. Brought to you by Splunk. >> Hi everybody welcome back to Orlando. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with my co-host Stu Miniman. This is day one of .conf18, Splunk's big user conference. You know we're talking a lot about AI at these conferences, talking a lot about data, one of the enablers is semiconductors, the power of semiconductors, and the cheap storage, have enabled people to ingest a lot of data. And when you look into the supply chain, beneath the semiconductors, there are companies who provide semiconductor equipment. One of those companies is Applied Materials and Amudha Nadesan is here, he's a senior manager at Applied Materials, symbol AMAT. Welcome Amudha, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah, thank you, thank you for inviting me. >> You're welcome. So as I say, there's a semiconductor boom going on right now, which is obviously a great tailwind for your business. You're on the data side, obviously. >> Right. >> Dave: Getting your hands dirty. Give us a sense of your role and we'll get into it. >> Yeah, so I'm a senior manager in the software group of the Applied Materials actually. So Applied's core business is always the hardware which is the semiconductor and display equipment manufacturer, so every new chip that was kind of manufactured, or any new display equipment displays coming out, that's manufactured using the Applied tool actually. We are the software world that kind of interfaces with the Applied tools, so we get all the data from the Applied tools and non-Applied tools, and we kind of do all the analytics using our software, actually. So, I'm kind of the technology group leader within the automation products group, so we are responsible for bringing in the new technologies into our products, actually. And our products, now we are kind of trying to align with the industry for final principles, so we are trying to bring in all the new technologies like mobility, virtualization, IoT, then predictive monitoring, predictive analytics, all these new technologies, we are trying to kind of bring into our products right now. >> So I know that, certainly, the tolerances in the semiconductor business are so tight, and given that you're manufacturing semiconductor equipment and providing software associated with that, is it your job to try to analyze the performance and the efficacy of the equipment and feed that back to your engineers and your customers in a collaborative mode? What's the outcome that your team is trying to drive? >> So, my team's main responsibility is to kind of maintain that finite availability for all the data that is coming from the tools into our products, actually. Right so, our products need to be up and running all the time, actually. If our product stops, the production line will stop, actually, right if the production line stops, then there's going to be a big business impact, actually. So that's where we are kind of trying to leverage all these new technologies, so we can really kind of run our software with finite availability, actually. >> You mentioned three things, mobility, virtualization, prediction. There may be others. >> Right. >> So the mobility, presumably, is a productivity aspect. So people can work at home on the weekends, or wherever they are, teasing of course. Virtualization, getting more out of, that's an asset utilization play. And prediction, that's using machine intelligence to predict failures, optimize the equipment, maybe you could describe what's behind each of those. >> Yeah, I'll kind of go one by one, actually. All of our products, they are like at least twenty, thirty years old, actually. They have been all big clients, actually, running on desktops and laptops, actually. Right so now we are kind of trying to bring the user experience, where the end users who are using the UI for our products, they can get a good experience, and that can kind of improve the productivity. So that's what the mobility is. So we are kind of trying to model the latest technologies like Angular and STML for our product UI, actually. And with respect to the virtualization, we have been kind of running our softwares on physical servers, actually, in an enterprise fashion, and that is kind of taking up lot of cost, actually. So we are kind of getting into this virtualization world where we can kind of reduce the TCO of our assets actually that is running all these softwares. >> Help connect the dots with us as to how Splunk fits into your environment. >> Oh, okay, so we just got into Splunk just two years back, actually, we have close to 25 to 30 software products that kind of completely automate that manufacturing line, actually. All these products, they generate so much of logs, actually, on a daily basis. If you take in a year, they kind of generate about 100 gigs of just log files, actually, and those log files have lot of critical information within the log file, and when we didn't have the Splunk two years back, what we would do is, whenever there is a problem in our customer production line, it allows them to kind of FTP those logs, actually. And then we have to kind of manually go and scan through all those logs and identify the issue, actually. Sometimes, even to identify the issue, it takes about like a week, actually, right? And after we identify the issue, we are to come up with the resolution to kind of fix the problem, and then it takes months, sometimes. I worked on a problem, even for six months to kind of bring a resolution to it, and the customers are very upset, actually. >> Yeah, it's interesting, go back to your earlier statements, you know, we've talked for years, decades, our whole careers, about how important uptime is, and then you talk about your people and there's a lot more efficient things they could be doing if they're not looking after and doing all these manual things. You've been there 22 years, what is something like Splunk, how do you measure that, the success of the outcome of using a tool like that? >> Yeah, so right now we can see the success immediately because we have implemented Splunk, and we are kind of remotely monitoring our production lines. At least five customers, right now, we are remotely monitoring them. Every customer, they have down time at least once or twice a year, actually, so when they have a down time, if it's a small customer, they take a loss of about 10 K per hour, actually. So and if it is a medium, then probably 100 K, if it's a large, then it's 1 million actually, per hour. I have experience in the last 22 years, I've experienced at least, a customer has one to two down times a year, sometimes even more than that, actually. So after we implemented Splunk, the last two years, one of our customers we are remotely monitoring, we never had a down time, so that itself is a big success, actually, but we are not done with it yet, actually, we are continuing to innovate with Splunk on the log monitor. >> Make sure I understood what you said. So, rough rules of thumb, these things vary, we always understand that, but you say in small customers, when their down time, you said $10,000 an hour, medium $100,000 an hour, large customer's a million dollars, and probably up with huge companies. >> Yes, yeah, it really kind of depends upon, when I say a small customer, they have less number of tools, actually, which means they have less number of operators. So less number of people impact it, actually, when the production line stops, but when you go for a kind of go for a medium size, they have more tools, more people are working with those tools, they don't have to work which means right it's a disruption, actually, in the production line. And if it's a large fab, there are more number of operators actually working in the production line, so that's how we kind of calculate the loss, actually. >> When they have, right, the math is pretty simple to calculate but when they have a down time like that, do they try and make it up on the weekends? Or can they not do that because people have lives, or they are already actually running 24/7? >> It's already running 24 by seven. >> And you can't get more time in a day. >> Yeah, they can't make it over the weekend, actually it's already running 24 by seven, and when the production line stops, that means it's a revenue loss for them, and then also their operators are sitting idle actually. >> Dave: These are companies with a fab, right? >> These are companies with fab actually. >> Which is a multi-billion dollar investment oftentimes, right? >> Yes, yes. Name any semiconductor companies like Intel or Samsung, they're all using Applied tools to run their manufacturing. >> And when they're down, it's right in the bottom line. >> Yes, that's right, and they all use our softwares to kind of like completely automate their factory end to end, actually. >> Can you directly attribute the lack of down time, the reduction in that down time, to Splunk? >> That's right, actually, yeah. At least one of the customers we are remotely monitoring right now, those customers are monitored using Splunk. We are, right now, scaling up with more and more customers for the remote monitoring. >> The other thing you said is you're starting to innovate even more with Splunk, maybe you can elaborate a little on that. >> Yeah, we are trying to kind of, right now we are just using the basic machine learning algorithms that are available from Splunk for kind of doing the anomaly detection, our outlier detection, our trend analysis. So we are expecting to kind of introduce more and more machine learning algorithms that can accurately predict the servers going down, that can kind of give us more lead time to kind of proactively address the issues before the user can see an impact, actually. Currently, most of the time it is kind of more reactive, we see the issue and then we kind of react to it. We want to be more proactive and that is where Splunk is playing a big role, actually. >> Your role is customer facing, is that right? Your software is customer facing? Or are you guys using this internally as well? >> We are using both internally. Right now, it is customer facing, but our IT organization, after seeing the success with how we are kind of monitoring our customers they are also kind of adapting it, and there are other business units now who are kind of receiving lot of data from these tools actually like the sensor data from the tools, they are also kind of trying to use Splunk and see how they can kind of predict the issues in the tool more proactively or accurately. >> Splunk is not a new company. I'm just curious, and Applied Materials is obviously a huge company, you know, $35 billion market cap, why did it take you so long to find out about Splunk and adopt Splunk? Was it just organizational, was it your processes are so delicate and hardened? I wonder if you could explain. >> Yeah, so that's a very good question actually. Right so, only in the last two years we have started investing more on the R&D, especially on the software products actually. Mostly the investment was on the hardware products where they want to kind of improve the productivity, they want to kind of improve the testing methodology, all those things. Most of the investment was going to the hardware components, so they were not even looking at all these software innovations that were happening. So last two years, they're kind of investing more on the software groups actually, which they want to kind of bring it, or kind of take it to that industry 4.0 revolution, actually, right? So that's where we started investing on all, we started looking at many technologies, and one of the first technologies to adapt was the Splunk, actually. And then especially we kind of came up with this remote monitoring concept where most of our customers are, the small customers, I would say, they did not have their own IT organization, right so whenever they had a down, they had to kind of literally log a call and they had to wait for us to kind of come in, fix their problem, and it took days, actually. And they took a big impact because of that. So then they said, we don't have our own IT organization, why don't you kind of take the IT responsibilities off, keep making sure those softwares are kind of up and running all the time? So that's the time when we went to Splunk, and we got it, we implemented it, we tested it, and we are kind of seeing a good success with it, actually. >> And do you guys buy this as a subscription, or is it a perpetual license? Or how do you guys do that? >> It is a perpetual license, yeah, we have an on-prem. That's another concern with our customers, because they want to make sure their IP does not go out, actually, they don't want to put anything on the cloud. This is for every semiconductor companies, they are not there on the cloud yet, actually. So that's why we are to host the Splunk, on-prem, and kind of transfer all the data from our customers through a secure FTP, bring it to our on-prem Splunk servers and do all the analytics, actually. >> We've heard Splunk and many other companies this year and for the last couple of years talking about AI and ML. Does that resonate with you, those sort of solutions that you think you'll be looking for, that kind of functionality, how does that play into your environment? >> That's right, actually. So we are trying to kind of get into that. We have to a certain extent, we are kind of already into the machine learning algorithms, actually, but we kind of want to go more deeper into that, actually, so that currently our prediction, whatever we have built up in house, actually, our prediction algorithms can predict only 60%, actually. So that's the accuracy we could get, but we want to get somewhere in the 90% or 93% accuracy, which means we have to get more, we have to get more on the accuracy part, actually right, we have to get more accurate machine learning algorithms developed actually, so that is where we are trying to kind of see if the platform can kind of provide more of this machine learning algorithms, which can predict more accurately, actually, the problem. >> So that's data, the modeling, iterations, just time, right? You'll eventually get there. Amudha, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE, it was great to hear your story. Last question is, we hear this story of Splunk, I call it land and expand. >> Right. >> We have, you know, one use case, and then there are other use cases, is that your situation? You've only been a customer for a couple years now, do you see using Splunk potentially in other areas? >> Yes, we are trying to kind of expand to other areas, right now we started with remote monitoring, we are going to use it for IT, our IT is going to use it, and then we want to kind of go to the predictive analytics actually, that means we want to kind of look at the tool data like the data that is coming from the sensors from the tool, we want to kind of do the analytics and then make sure that we can predict the problems, we can predict the maintenance that we need to do, actually, so all those things we want to do, actually, that's the area we want to kind of more expand with, we will really kind of add value to our customers, actually. >> Amudha Nadesan from Applied Materials, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE, appreciate your time. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Alright, keep it right there, everybody, we'll be back with our next guest, I'm Dave Vellante, he's Stu Miniman, we'll be right back, you're watching theCUBE from Splunk .conf18. 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(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE, covering .conf 18 brought to you by Splunk >> Welcome back to Orlando, everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to events, we extract the signal from the noise. This is day two of Splunk's big user conference #Splunkconf18 Winding down, Stu. Been quite an amazing two days just said Doug Paradon had tons of customers, a lot of security talk today. Luke Bampton is here, another security expert, he's the application security specialists with SecurePay, >> Hi guys >> from Australia. Hi, how ya doing, mate? >> Good, not bad, can you tell that I'm from Australia, or not so much from the accent? >> That rack of beer you got down there gives it away. >> Haha, yeah (laughing) >> Australians like beer or so they say. But they don't drink Fosters so I hear. >> No, no, no such thing, actually, it's yeah, >> That's great marketing to dumb Americans. >> Yeah, a very common misconception though, so kudos to you for picking it up. >> Well, we were talking about the Melbourne Cup, but we'll get back to that later. But lets talk about SecurePay. >> Luke: Sure >> What do you guys do and what's your role there? >> Yeah so, we're an online payment gateway, so we help businesses trade online facilitating e-commerce, so we're actually owned by Australia Post so, Australia's premiere mail network. So that gives us kind of a unique competitive advantage being able to sell both parceled delivery and payments facilitation all in one service to our customers. Um, makes it really compelling offering to customers have an all in one kind of one-stop shop for all their e-commence needs. >> What's your role and what are the big drivers from the business or the operations that are effecting that role? >> So my role is an Application Security Specialist, so I look after a lot of the PCI, DSS constraints, so payment card industry, data security standard. I do a lot of stuff around vulnerability management, card reviews, penetration testing, web application, firewall administration, I work very heavily with our SOC guys work very heavily with our network, security team, platform application, you name it, we do it pretty much. >> So-- >> Yeah, yeah I mean security obviously for a payment company is pretty important, maybe you can talk about you know, what was changing in the industry, how does that impact your job? >> Yeah, so financial tech or fin tech has kind of boomed in Australia. If not the world in the last like five ten years, so there are a lot of new companies, and so therefore, it's driving a lot of innovation. So big players even like SecurePay are even feeling that, feeling that desire to work faster, more agile, and be more competitive in market, and that means a lot of change, a lot of fast paced change, especially when you're dealing with industry regulation such as calculating surcharges on the flyer, making sure the people aren't skimming off the top of what is just what it's supposed to be at cost covering exercise. For our merchants, so competing with legislative changes competing with industry changes, best practice, and if payments stopped then your entire ecosystem stops, and the economy stops. >> Yeah, so, I see hear application security, and I'm a networking guy by background so I start thinking level four through say, layer four through seven. Bring us inside a little bit. What your team does and kind of solutions you're using, I would expect Splunk's, piece of it, what's the stack and security layer look like? >> Yeah, sure, so from a security viewpoint, SecurePay being a subsidiary and being a payment card provider kind of has to be stand alone, so we can't leverage, we have to manage a lot of stuff in-house, I should say. Um, so what that means is basically you have to think of it as condensing your entire organization into a team of like five, six, seven. And really making the most of your products that you've got available to you. So that means really making the most of technologies out of the firewall space, out of the application security space, code scanning, basically everything that you'd expect a full blown enterprise to do, only with a much smaller team, much smaller budget, which means you've got a lot of competing priorities all the time. >> So when you say, in house, I'm inferring that means a lot on PREM as well or not sure? >> Yeah so at the moment, we are prominently on PREM, in terms of our infrastructure, we are moving to more of a hybrid cloud, particularly with non production environmentS. But, with that said, everything's got to be to be in line with all of the network controls, all of the application controls, segmentation all the rest of it is required under PCI. As far as individual tooling is concerned, we work very heavily with Splunk in terms of the event correlation, event management, alerting. Our risk guys use it to fraud profile, and risk profile both our merchants and our customers. And really like just keep an eye on what's going on in the overall enrollments payment ecosystem. Not only for our customers, but also for customers in the overall payment scene, because we hold relationships with other significant players, we can give them a head's up of what's going on. So any market trends, intelligence, like sharing, makes it a really good place to be. >> How long have you been a Splunk customer? >> So we've been a Splunk customer about 18 months now. >> Okay great. So relatively recent? >> Yeah. >> Tell us about life, what was the catalyst to bring Splunk in? What was life like before and the after? >> Yeah, so, the catalyst for bringing Splunk in was really the contract negotiation with our parent company in Australian Post. So we've moved away from our previous tooling and moved to Splunk. I'll be honest, there wasn't a huge adoption 'cause there was so much going on at that point in time, but about twelve months ago, we started really investing heavily in optimizing our instance of Splunk cloud, to the point where we're now able to leverage it's functionality in terms of application monitoring, making logs available and searchable. Just make things a lot more visible for even our senior leadership team to come up and see a dashboard on a TV screen on a wall and be like, "Hey, we're doing really well today". Or "hey, what's with that number, do I need," "is there something that I need to know?" The power of visibility when you're talking to leadership teams is just amazing. >> And you couldn't do this before, or you could do it would take a lot more resources? >> Yeah, exactly. You could do it, it's just that it's a lot less visual, and a lot more time intensive to actually pull that out. So where Splunk has really assisted us is in the ease of reporting, and the visibility and speed with which we can deliver the information required. So, with our previous tools, there was an issue with the timeliness of the data, so by the time that we'd actually pulled it out, taken the core insights that we needed it was probably not as accurate, or as up to date as what we like, and being in high paced financial industry time is money. >> So what have you done with that extra time is it just sort of perfecting the dashboards and the reporting and that process, or have you shifted resources to other activities? >> Yeah, so I mean when you're dealing with such a small team, time is key. And really that reporting time got shifted away and back into the hands of more technical on hands, technical uplift. You have more time you know, making sure that your firewall rules are correct, you've got more time making sure that you're applications, and your code reviews are going well, and you're clearing pipelines, and you're looking at training, you're looking for indicators of compromise instead of just kind of sitting there hoping that your current configures okay, but knowing that you could probably give it some more love if you had more time. >> Alright, yup Luke, one of the things we talked to a lot of customers about is that they start with a specific use case for Splunk, but then the business starts asking questions other groups get involved, what's your experience? >> Yeah, no, as our experience in that field is exactly the same, so we brought Splunk onboard purely as a seam for the security team to use. And it got to the point where you had say the sales team approach us and were like, "hey we know that you" "guys are pulling out a lot of metrics about" "our customers and what activities are going on in system," "is there any way we can leverage this" "to say calculate profitability for various accounts" "or you know can we offer bulk discounts?" Or you know, whatever so it kind of starts getting extended to the sales team, and then the customer service guys came aboard and they're like, "Hey, if we had access to this information" "sooner, we could better service our customers." And that offering itself was really powerful because it has a direct impact on our ability to deliver as a service provider. And it just keeps growing, and growing and growing to the point where pretty much every single team uses Splunk in some way, shape, or form, and are getting real value out of it. >> Now, when you say every single team, >> Yeah >> You mean across the company or? >> Yeah, just, across our company, so across SecurePay, so from the infrastructure guys to the network guys to the dev team, to the QA's to the BA's, just yeah. >> What about well, so we heard a lot of announcements today there sort of positioning Splunk for the lines of business the business users, the less technical folks. Do you see that happening in the near to midterm? >> Yeah, so that has. That's going to have a big impact as to where we sit, so on our current experience has been with the internal customers using Splunk who aren't as technical because we are using Splunk Cloud and we've got that shared like service pool from Splunk. Can unfortunately impact the ability of users who do need access to certain things, in a faster manner can be limited sometimes. So the ability to actually give those guys the ability to self serve a little bit bettter, up skill and actually kind of kind of teach them to fish as opposed as to delivering fish. Is really going to be very powerful, and it's just going to be it's going to be something to play to Splunk's credit. >> How large of an installation are you? How do you measure that, is that like, I guess it's gigabytes or terabytes right? >> Yeah, so in terms about our daughter in just I'm not 100% sure. I think we're, the majority of our logging comes out of our firewalls and perimeter stuff, as you'd expect, being a public facing organization so we've always got scans and whatever going on. But, in terms of the rest of our ingest, >> Dave: So small, medium or large? >> Yeah, I'd say we're probably, small or medium, depending on our ingest. So SecurePay for reference is only about 100, 120 people strong. So, we try to keep things as agile as possible and as lightweight as possible and Splunk's kind of there to support that because we can, we know when we're hitting our overhead and what we can do to actually kind of peg that back or wrap it up and where we've got the head room. >> Things you'd like to see Splunk do, what's on their to do list? >> That's a fantastic question, I'd like to, so I'm personally not a Splunk ninja by any means, I'm still very new, so given the fact that we've only had Splunk for about 18 months I would like, there are people here who would Splunk me into the ground. (laughing) >> But, >> That sounds vicious. (laughing) >> But personally what I'd like to see is a lot of that natural language translation stuff coming through that they announced, Can be really, really powerful. Just to empower those guys who haven't got quite like trying to reduce that barrier to entry rather than in nothing else. >> Luke, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE and good luck >> Yeah, no worries. >> with the future. That's it for us too, that's a wrap, I mean your final thoughts, you want to bring it home? >> Yeah, at the crossroads at day to day, it's really amazing to see this, they going to have WAS tomorrow, they got a huge party at Universal, so it's been a great experience for me, I really appreciate ya you know coming and sharing the ride. >> My pleasure. It's all about the data. We're seeing, we've watched the ascendancy of Splunk, Splunk went public with a very little of the cash, forty million dollars in cash, got to the public markets been growing like crazy, we're seeing a massive CAM expansion now into lines of business and new areas like IOT, so we're actually very excited about Splunk. We really appreciate them having us here. Busy month for theCUBE. theCUBE team's packing up. I'll be going to Miami. Stu will be going to Miami. You guys will be going to Miami. You guys are going back to California. We'll see you next week. Check out the Cube.net it will show you where theCUBE is for all the shows, checkout siliconangle.com for all the news. Some big news today, so look for that in the big data space Hortonworks and Cloudera merging evidently, just just came across the wire, wow. Hatfields and the McCoys. And, check out wikibottom.org sorry wikibottom.com for all the research. Thanks for watching everybody, This is theCUBE, we're out from Splunk .conf 2018 We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)