(digital music) >> Welcome back to VeeamON 2022. We're in the home stretch, actually, Dave Nicholson and Dave Vellante here. Daniel Fried is the general manager and senior vice president for EMEA and Worldwide Channel. Daniel, welcome to theCUBE. You got a big job. >> No, I don't have a big job. I have a job that I love. (chuckles) >> Yeah, a job you love. But seriously Veeam, all channel. I mean it has been. >> Yeah, I mean, it's something which just, just a few seconds on, on that piece here, the channel piece, it's something that I love because the ecosystem of partners, an ecosystem of partners, is something which is spending its time moving and developing and changing. You've got a lot of partners changing their roles, their missions, the type of services, type of product that they offer. They all adapt to what the market needs and all the markets around the world are very different because of all these different cultures, languages, and everything. So it's very interesting. In the middle of all that, you know, these tens of thousands of partners and you try to create and try to understand how you can organize, how you can make them happy. So this is fantastic. >> So you're a native of the continent in Europe, obviously. We heard Anton, today, who couldn't be here or chose not to be here, cause he's supporting family and friends in Ukraine. What's the climate like now? Can you share with us what's it like Europe? Just the overall climate and obviously the business climate. >> So the overall climate, the way I see it or I feel it, and obviously there may be some different opinions, that I will always appreciate as also very good opinions. My view is that it seems in Europe that there are a distinction between what people do for businesses, Their thinking for the business, which may be impacted by the situations that we know in Europe between, because of obviously the issues between Ukraine, because of Russia, let's put it this way. And then there is the personal view, which is okay. That happens from time to time, but life continues and we just continue pushing things and enjoying life, and getting the families together and so on and so forth. So, this is in most of the countries in Europe. Obviously, there are a number of countries, which are a little bit more sensitive, a little bit more impacted. All the ones who are next to Russia, or Belarus, so on and so forth. From an emotional standpoint, which is totally understandable. But overall, I'm pretty impressed by how the economy, how people, how the businesses are, you know, continue to thrive in Europe. >> Has Brexit had any...? What impact, if any, has it had? >> So for us Veeam, the impact is... So first there is an impact which is on the currencies. So all the European currencies are no, have slowed down and, and the US dollar is becoming much stronger. >> Despite its debt. >> Right. >> Shouldn't be, but yeah. >> But that doesn't impact on the business. I just... >> Yeah. Right. >> So everything which is economical, macroeconomical is impacted. We have the inflation also, which has an impact, which also has increased because of the oil, because of the gas of everything that they have been stuck, to be stuck. But people get used to it. As Veeam from a business standpoint, one of the big things is we stopped sales, selling into Russia and into Belarus and we are giving our technology, our product, our solutions for free to Ukraine. And that was a piece of the business that we were doing, within EMEA, which was non-neglectable. So it's, I would say a business hole, now that we need to try to fill with accelerating the business service in the other countries of Europe. >> I mean, okay. So thank you for that but we really didn't see it in last quarter's numbers that you guys shared with I mean, IBM. Similarly IBM said, it's noticeable, but it's not really a big impact on our business, but given the cultural ties that you had to Russia and the affinity, I mean you knew how to do business in Russia. It's quite remarkable that you're able to sort of power through that. How about privacy in, around data, in Europe, particularly versus the US? it seems like Europe is setting the trend on things like privacy, certainly on things like acquisitions, we saw the arm acquisition fail. >> Yeah. So there is a big difference. Effectively, there is a big difference between, I would say North America and the rest of the world. And I would say that EMEA, and within EMEA would say the EU is leading very much on what we call server sovereign cloud. So data privacy, which in other words, data is to as much as possible is to remain within either the EU or better within each of the countries, which means that there is again... It's I would say for in EMEA it's good, I would say for the business, for the partners, because then they have to develop around the cloud a number of functions to ensure that because of this data privacy, because of this GDPR or rules and things, all the data remains and resides in a given geographical environment. So it's, which is good because it creates a number of opportunities for the partners. It makes obviously the life of customers and their self a bit more difficult. But again, I think it's good. It's good. It's part of all the way we structure and we organize. And I think that it's going to expand because data is becoming so key, a key limit, a key asset of companies that we absolutely need to take care of it. And it is where Veeam plays a big role in that because we help paying companies managing their data and secure the data in sort of way. >> Yeah. Ransomware has been a big topic of conversation this week. Do you sense that the perception of that as a threat is universal? Are there, are there differences between North America and the EU and other parts of the world? Universal? >> Yeah, it is universal. We see that everywhere. And I think this is a good point, a good question too, is that it's very interesting because we need to get acquainted to the fact that we are going to ever. And so we are going to be attacked. No way out, no. There... Anybody the morning, is waking up, is going on emails and click clicking on an email. Too late. Was a run somewhere. What can you do against that? You know, all humans make mistakes. You can't so it'll happen, but where, where it's absolutely very important and where Veeam plays a big role and where our partners are going to play an even bigger role with our technology is that they can educate the customers to understand that, to have run somewhere is not an issue. What has, what happened is not a problem. What they have to do is to organize so that if they have run somewhere, their letter is safe. And this is where our place a big place. A couple hours back, I was, I was doing a kind of bar with something else. It's totally crazy, but that's okay. I'm going to say it. It's about the COVID. What, no, what do we do? Do we have, do we have something against COVID? No. People were going to get COVID, certainly many people still doing it, but what is important is to be capable of not being too sick. So it is the prevention, which is important. It's the same thing here. So there is this mindset we have psychologically with the partners and they have, they have to provide that services to their customers on how to organize their data using the technology of Veeam in order to be safe, if anything happens. >> So another related question, if I may. When Snowden blew the whistle on the NSA and divulged that the NSA was listening to all the phone calls, there was seemed to be at the time, as I recall, a backlash sentiment in Europe, particularly toward big tech and cloud providers and skepticism toward the cloud. Has the pandemic and the reliance on cloud and the rise of ransomware changed that sentiment? Had the sentiment changed before then? Obviously plenty of Cloud going on in Europe. But can you describe that dynamic? >> Yeah, no, I think that's... Yeah. I think that people were too... You know, as usual. It absolutely reminds me when I was at VMware, when we went from the physical boxes to the virtual machines. I remember the IT people in the company said, "No, I want to be capable of touching." Something here. When you talk about cloud, you talk about something which is virtual, but virtual outside, even outside somewhere. So there is a resistance, psychological resistance to where is my data? How do I control my data? And that is, I think that is very human. Then you need to, you know, it takes time. And again, depending on the cultures, you need to get acquainted to it. So that's what happened be before the pandemic, but then the pandemic took place. And then there was a big problem. There was nobody anymore in the data centers because they couldn't work there and then people were starting to, to work remotely. So the IT needed to be organized to compensate for all these different changes. And cloud was one of them where the data could be stored, where the data could reside, where things could happen. And that's how actually it has accelerated at least in a number of countries where people are a bit leg out to accept the adoption of cloud, cloud-based data. >> So is there a difference in terms of the level of domination by a small group of hyperscale clouds versus smaller service providers? You know, in theory, you have EU behaving in a unified way in sort of the same way that the United States behaves in sort of a federated way. Do you have that same level of domination or is there more, is there more market share available for smaller players in cloud? Any regional differences? >> Yeah. There are big differences. There are big differences again, because of this sovereignty, which is absolutely approved very much in Europe. I'm tell you, I'm going... I'm giving you an example that it was in, I think in October last year, somewhere. The French, the French administration said, "We don't want anymore. Any administration investing in Microsoft 365, because the data is in Azure. The data is out in the cloud." That's what they said. So now these last days, this last week that has changed because Microsoft, you know, introduced a number of technologies, data centers in France, and so on and so forth. So things are going to get better. But the sovereignty, the fact that the data, the privacy of data, everything has to remain in the countries is doing something like the technology of the hyperscalers is used locally wrapped by local companies like systematic writers, local systematic writers, to ensure that the sovereign is set and that the privacy of the data is for real and according to GDPR. So again, it's a value add. It makes things more complex. It doesn't mean that the Google, the Google cloud, the Azure, or the AWS are not going to exist in Europe, but there are going to be a number of layers between them and the customers in order to make sure that everything is totally brought up and that it complies with the EU regulations. >> Help us understand the numbers, Daniel. So the number of customers is mind-boggling it's over 400,000 now, is that right? >> Yeah. Correct. >> Yes. Comparable to VMware, which is again, pretty astounding and the partner ecosystem. Can you help us understand the scope of that? Part one. part two is how do you service and provide that partnership love to all those companies? >> The partners. So yeah, we have about 35,000 around the world, 35,000 partners, but again, it's 10 times less than Microsoft, by the way. So, and this is very interesting. I often have the questions, how do we manage? So first of all, we do tiering, like anybody does. >> Sure. >> We have an organization for that. And we have a two chair sales motion. That means that we use the distributors to take care of the mass, the volume of the smaller, smaller partners. We help the distributors, we help. So it's a leverage system. And we take care obviously more directly, of the large partners or the more complex partners or the ones of interest. But we don't want to forget any of those because even the small one is very important to us because he has these customers maybe in the middle of nowhere, but he's got a few of them. And again, to have a few of these customers, when you adapt, you know, it makes.. At the end, it makes a big business. You know, one plus one plus 1 million times makes, you know, makes huge things. And plus we are in the recurring business now, now that we've introduced three, four years ago, our subscription licenses, which means that it's only incremental. So it's just like the know the telephony, know the telephony business, where the number, the cell phone plans, you know, it's always grabbing as many as possible consumers in this case. So it was the same thing or I have the same, the same kind of, I do a parallel with the French, the French bakery, the French Boulangerie where I say they do their business with the baguette. And then from time to time, they sell the patisserie or they sell the cake, cookie or something, but the same of small things makes a big things. So it is important to have all these small partners everywhere that, that have their small customers or big customers, and that can serve them. So that's that's way. We segment by geography and what we do now is, it is something which is new. We segment by competencies. So it's what I call the soft segmentation. Because if not, we will have a lot of these partners competing to each other, just to sell Veeam. Veeam being number one in many countries, that is what is taking place. And we want them to be happy. We want, we don't want them to fight against each other. So what we do is we do soft segmentation and soft segmentation is this partner is competent in this field with that kind of use case doing this or this or this or this. It's just like you, when you go to the restaurant, you want the restaurant next to your place. So you click for the geography and then you want to, to go for Indian food. So you click restaurant Indian food, and then you want something. So we want to give that possibility to the customers to say, "Yeah, I think I know what I want." And then you can just click and get the partners or the list of partners, which are the most suited for, for his needs. So it's what I call the soft segmentation. The other thing which is important is the network. It's very interesting because when we look at a lot of companies, it's not the network. You've got VARs, you've got cloud and service providers. You've got SARs, you've got all the things. But if you take each of those individually, they don't have the competencies to answer all the request of the customer. So the networking is partnering with partner. That means to have the, the connection so that the partner A who has his customer, but these customer's are requests that this partner cannot fulfill because it's not its competency. That it's going to find the partners or the other partners that can feel this competency and work together. And then it's between them to have the model that they want so that together they can please the customer with their requests. >> Do you ever want to have VeeamON... I mean, I'm happy it's in the US and I like going to Europe, but you, have you ever want to have VeeamON in Europe? >> Yeah, we have VeeamON. We have many VeeamONs in Europe. >> Yeah. The mini ones. Okay. >> VeeamON tours. >> Globally. So where do you have them? >> Europe in APJ, that's what we do. Yes. >> Where do you do it in a APJ? In Japan, obviously in... >> Yeah. I don't know all the locations, tens and tens of them. >> A lot of them. Okay. >> The small ones. What we do, replicate what is done here on one day and then it goes. >> And you'll do that in UK. France, Germany. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Local. >> And also small countries in Saudi, in South Africa, in Israel, in Bulgaria, in all these countries. Because, you know, we can be virtual. That's nice. >> Oh, right. >> But I love to be having a breakfast or a lunch or drink next to a partner or a customer because you learn so much more. The informal information is so important to understand how the business and how the market develops and what the needs are of customers and so on and so forth. >> How was the European attendance this year? It must have been down. It's hard to get into US. It's actually easier to go back to Europe. >> Virtually I, don't have the numbers, but I- >> No. Virtual. I'm sure it was huge. Yeah. But physical. >> Physical here, we've got about 300, 300 Europeans. >> Yeah. Okay. Out of, do we know? What are the numbers here? Do we know? Have we heard numbers? >> I know 45 was supposed to be around 45K combined. >> That's hybrid. >> So, yeah. >> It's hard to get into the US. We're still figuring that out. So I'm not surprised, but now you... >> But it's complimentary. Yeah. >> Do you go to 'em all? >> No >> You can't. >> No. That's not possible. I cannot. I actually, I would love... >> But some, yes. >> I would love to be capable of duplicate myself, but- >> You go to the one. >> I'm unique. >> You go to the one in France, obviously. Yeah? >> Yeah. Usually in France. Well... >> Depends if you're home. >> Yeah. You know, that is interesting is, the way we organize, the way we organize in Europe is I really want the local leaders to be the ones managing the countries. I'm there to support. I'm not there to be, you know? Yeah. The big boss is coming, he showing. No. It is not that. Again, if they request me to come, if they want me to pass a message to certain type of customer partners, I'll do that. But I don't want to run the show. It's not the way I manage that. >> Yeah. I get that. You want to respect that as if you show up in France and that's your home country, it's like rat man showing up here. It's like taking over the stage. You'll be like, you know, it's our turn. >> But it's just like, you know, I give you another example. So obviously we have... It's even the headquarters, the EMEA headquarters is in France. Right? But it is the French office. And I don't go there. I try not to be there because it is the place for the French people taking care of the French market. And for the French manager, if I go there, everybody's going to come and ask me questions and ask me to make decisions and things. No, they have to run their business. >> So where do you spend, where and how do you spend your time? >> In airports and in planes. (indistinct) What are you asking? >> Of course. >> Do you have another question? >> Actually, if we have time really quickly on just on that subject of sovereignty, we are here in Nevada just across the border, California. People in California have no problem at all, replicating things here for disaster recovery, because it's in the US. Now, is there sort of a cultural sense that tearing down those borders from a sovereignty perspective within Europe would fundamentally change the business climate and maybe tilt things in favor of the AWS and GCPs of the world instead of local regional business? The joke that I heard recently from someone, I thought it was funny. I don't know if it would offend either Germans or French, but it was that it was that AWS was confused and they were planning on putting a data center in Strasbourg, because they thought it was in Germany and it was- >> A joke. >> But the point is, the point is it's like, it's a gum bear. >> Is it true? >> No. But it was a dumb American joke. This was told by a French person basically saying... >> But this person was certainly not from- >> Yes. Right. >> Tell you, because I would've been a very bad way. >> But the point is this idea that you have these mega hyper clouds coming in and saying, "Okay, boom, we're putting one here and you're going to use us regardless of the country you're in." How does that, you know... Is there a push within the EU to tear those barriers down? Or are those sovereignty walls enjoyed by the majority because of the way that it changes the business climate? Any thoughts from that perspective? >> Oh yeah. Yeah. To me, it's very simple. It is a hybrid thing. That means that these big hyperscalers are there, not going to be used but what they do is they're going to partition themselves and work with these local people. So that their big thing appears as being independent, smaller data centers. That's the only thing, you know. You build a house and then you put walls between the different, between the different rooms. That's the only thing that happens. So it's not at all, no. At all to Azures or Google cloud. No, it's not that. It just means that there is a structure and organization that has to be put in place in order that the data resides in given geographical locations using their infrastructures, their technologies. That make, does it make sense? >> Yeah. Except that it puts them in the position of having to have a physical presence in each place, which is advantageous in one way and maybe less efficient in another. >> Yeah. But there are some big markets. >> Yeah. And they eventually got to get there. Right. I mean... >> Yeah. >> They started it. One patient in the world where they restarted was in ANZ. And that's what they did. You know, what, 5, 6, 7 years ago. They put their data centers over there because they wanted to gain the Australian market and the New Zealand market. >> So build it and they will come. Daniel, thanks so much for coming to the theCUBE. Very interesting conversation. >> Pleasure. >> Appreciate it. >> Thank you very much. >> All right, we're wrapping up. Day two at VeeamON 2022. Keep it right there. Dave and I will be back right after this break. (vibrant music)

>>Hey, welcome back to live coverage in San Francisco, California, the cubes coverage of 80 west summit, 2022 here in SF and NYC New York city. Summit's coming up in the summer. We'll be there as well. Check it out. Okay. We've got a great guest here. C Bhan co and CEO RAI systems. Welcome to the cube, hot startup and growing company. And Kubernetes is great to see you. >>Yeah, John, thanks for having me. Appreciate it. >>Great to have you on. So Cubans coming up, you got cloud native here at AWS. You guys in the middle of it, take a minute to explain what your company does. Sure. >>So 50,000 enterprises are going to modernize in the next five to 10 years. They're all going to run into the exact same problem, which is they're gonna choose Kubernetes as the orchestra platform. And then they're gonna invest in building a platform essentially on top of Kubernetes so that their internal consumers, that developers can consume it. That requires a lot, a lot of effort. We, lot of people, a lot of time, a lot of effort, what we did was we thought about entire journey for Kubernetes operations that a team would go through and we package that as an offering. It's a SaaS product that you can consume. You can make it work with Amazon's Kubernetes, Azures Kubernetes, Googles, Kubernetes, upstream, Kubernetes, but then you can move significantly faster so that the goal of modernization can be achieved now versus two years more. >>What's the big, uh, opportunity that Kubernetes brings. And what are some of the pain points that are being removed or solved or blockers being removed and pain being reduced? Is it standing up Kubernetes? Is it running it in production? Is it the new revisions? I mean, honestly, it's huge. Yeah. What's the pain point. The customers that you guys solve. >>Yeah. Look, the, the paradox with Kubernetes is when it's working. It's awesome. It's great. And we can move it fast, but to get there, it's hard. Yeah. So simple things as a starting point, how do I provision my infrastructure repeatedly in the same way with the right blueprints? How do I make sure they all look the same? How do I make sure John can access certain things? And he cannot, how do I make sure the right policies are set up? How do I make sure consistent deployment is happening? Can I watch every we think, and I measure everything and we are not beyond basic things, right? Yeah. I need to back this up, you know, on and on. I need to do cost management. I need to network policy management. I need service management. You already built the team now. Right? Each of these is, is, is multiple people's jobs sometimes. Right? So it's really complicated. But again, everybody is investing. This is complexity. It's complexity. Yes. But people are investing in this because everybody understands now that once this is all working, the beauty, the, the P the pace at which you can run is exactly what we were promised five, six years ago when we were all told about modernization. Yeah. So the, when you get there, it's awesome. And we are helping companies get there significantly faster. Then they would've had, were they not working with a company? >>It's it really is a holy grail kind of orchestration layer if it works. And a lot of people, even myself, which a big fan of Kubernetes, caution, cautions over the oo problem, which is the clusters are up. I can't find talent to run them. They're too hard. Um, that's kind of in the back of people's minds and there's a lot of scar tissue around that. Uh, and then a little bit of open stack, you know, is it too hard, too hard? So the question is, is that what needs to happen to be successful with Kubernetes to make that go faster? So that's easy to deploy. Exactly. Yeah. And what what's your product do? Is it software open source? Yeah. What's, what's your product? >>The, the key here is repeatably usable automation. It's automation that it can use again and again, and it's flexible enough that it solves for many companies problem. You know, the funny thing is, and this is something that took me a while to figure out whether we have a financial services customer or an insurance company, or a healthcare company, or a high tech company, you know, what their problems are exactly the same. <laugh> when it comes to Kubernetes, it's all the same, right? So we figured out what it takes to build that automation in a repeatable fashion so that we could essentially sell it as a product. Our product is a SaaS product. Um, and once you have the right automation in place that you can ideally consume as a service, then now the beauty is that the people who are using it on a day to day basis, they don't need to be as expert at Kubernetes as today. Yeah. And that's the issue today? The issue is, you know, people, I've seen ads now where people say, you know, looking for Kubernetes expertise, 10 years, minimum experience, okay, that's ridiculous. Right. But you see these ads out there, right? Because people are rude about it, a tool like this makes it easy for you to take your existing skillset, existing resources and allow them to become Kubernetes. >>That's the key. I think that's the key in my mind is like hiring talent for these, I call DevOps glass eating projects, cuz it's hard. Yep. Some of this stuff's hard when you get down to the early stuff. And even in the hyperscalers, you look at the early hyperscalers, they were rolling their own and they were rock stars. And they were like the 1% of top developers. Right? Yep. And now you have general audiences who just want to code. Yep. They want abstractions. They want Kubernetes as a service. Uh, and they want all the benefits. And even if they could hire the Oddsly hiring the low level core people yeah. Is hard. Yeah. >>It takes time. Yeah. >>Absolutely. That's a core problem you guys solve. >>Absolutely. I think look, the, the one thing that every enterprise you think about is when the, the big companies, the hyperscale is that you mentioned that build this themselves when they us out 5, 6, 7, whatever years ago, when, you know, even some, some of them pre Kubernetes, it was a competitive advantage to roll this out because nobody else was doing it now as, as an enterprise who is trying to use software to move faster. Yeah. It's actually a competitive disadvantage because now you're building your own product. And now you're building this thing called Kubernetes that doesn't make any sense, focus your application, focus on your products, roll them out faster, and then essentially reuse the learnings from the market. Right. That's what we are doing. Really? What, what are we doing? We're taking the best practices of this industry and packaging that up into an easy to consume platform. That's awesome. That's it? >>Well, we'll see you in Cooper, Cuban, not Kubernetes contest in Valencia. Yep. Uh, and thanks for coming on. I know we didn't have a lot of time to drill into it, um, here, but great to meet you and the company. Final question as a co-founder what's your north star, you got, you got a company to run in. Bill got employees, you're managing and hiring inspiring. What's the north star for the company. >>So I'd say, I mean, the phrase that I, that, that I think about when, when you say north star is, is loyalty with urgency. >>So loyalty to whom? Yeah. It's to my team, right? My team comes first beyond before anything else. Right? And then my customers, right? My customers, many, many of our, our customers even now, right? We a four old company, they have my cell phone number and people call me at odd hours and I will show up. I will get people on a call. I will show up. Right. That's critical. But with urgency now my customer needs help. It needs to happen now. Not tomorrow, not next week. My team has heard me say this a thousand times, by the way, not tomorrow, not next week now. And this, if you do this in a startup, you will be successful. >>Yeah. I mean, you gotta make the market as the founder, inspiring people, product market fits huge. Yep. Getting that scale point. Yep. Where you're got the value proposition in position you're in mode to scale, you got visibility on unit economics. It's hard. Yep. It's super hard look. Good news is you get in a good area. Cloud native Kubernetes, automation, cloud, native modernization of apps. Super hot right now. Yeah. Big >>Time. Yeah. Look, I mean, you know, of course you, you want your teams to be topnotch. Right. But I gotta tell you there's a lot of luck and timing to everything. >>Exactly. >>Timing is in hindsight, nobody times anything. Right. So we have, time is perfect, but it's luck. Yeah. Right. We're very lucky. We're we have the right team. We're doing a great job. I think our customers are very happy. What we've rebuilt and uh, you know, look forward >>To Steve. You're humble. And you're a humble person. I can tell. I don't believe in luck. I think you make luck. I think luck is just part of the hustle, making those phone calls, doing those calls, doing the right things, grinding. And then when you get the shot, you're ready. Yeah. Yeah. So congratulations. Thanks for coming the queue. Appreciate it. Appreciate your time, sir. Nice to meet you coverage here in San Francisco, back with more day, two coverage. After this short break, stay with us.

(upbeat music) >> On February 19th of this year, Barron's dropped an article declaring Oracle, a cloud giant and the article explained why the stock was a buy. Investors took notice and the stock ran up 18% over the next nine trading days and it peaked on March 9th, the day before Oracle announced its latest earnings. The company beat consensus earnings on both top-line and EPS last quarter, but investors, they did not like Oracle's tepid guidance and the stock pulled back. But it's still, as you can see, well above its pre-Barron's article price. What does all this mean? Is Oracle a cloud giant? What are its growth prospects? Now many parts of Oracle's business are growing including Fusion ERP, Fusion HCM, NetSuite, we're talking deep into the double digits, 20 plus percent growth. It's OnPrem legacy licensed business however, continues to decline and that moderates, the overall company growth because that OnPrem business is so large. So the overall Oracle's growing in the low single digits. Now what stands out about Oracle is it's recurring revenue model. That figure, the company says now it represents 73% of its revenue and that's going to continue to grow. Now two other things stood out on the earnings call to us. First, Oracle plans on increasing its CapEX by 50% in the coming quarter, that's a lot. Now it's still far less than AWS Google or Microsoft Spend on capital but it's a meaningful data point. Second Oracle's consumption revenue for Autonomous Database and Cloud Infrastructure, OCI or Oracle Cloud Infrastructure grew at 64% and 139% respectively and these two factors combined with the CapEX Spend suggest that the company has real momentum. I mean look, it's possible that the CapEx announcements maybe just optics in they're front loading, some spend to show the street that it's a player in cloud but I don't think so. Oracle's Safra Catz's usually pretty disciplined when it comes to it's spending. Now today on March 17th, Oracle announced updates towards Autonomous Data Warehouse and with me is David Floyer who has extensively researched Oracle over the years and today we're going to unpack the Oracle Autonomous Data Warehouse, ADW announcement. What it means to customers but we also want to dig into Oracle's strategy. We want to compare it to some other prominent database vendors specifically, AWS and Snowflake. David Floyer, Welcome back to The Cube, thanks for making some time for me. >> Thank you Vellante, great pleasure to be here. >> All right, I want to get into the news but I want to start with this idea of the autonomous database which Oracle's announcement today is building on. Oracle uses the analogy of a self-driving car. It's obviously powerful metaphor as they call it the self-driving database and my takeaway is that, this means that the system automatically provisions, it upgrades, it does all the patching for you, it tunes itself. Oracle claims that all reduces labor costs or admin costs by 90%. So I ask you, is this the right interpretation of what Oracle means by autonomous database? And is it real? >> Is that the right interpretation? It's a nice analogy. It's a test to that analogy, isn't it? I would put it as the first stage of the Autonomous Data Warehouse was to do the things that you talked about, which was the tuning, the provisioning, all of that sort of thing. The second stage is actually, I think more interesting in that what they're focusing on is making it easy to use for the end user. Eliminating the requirement for IT, staff to be there to help in the actual using of it and that is a very big step for them but an absolutely vital step because all of the competition focusing on ease of use, ease of use, ease of use and cheapness of being able to manage and deploy. But, so I think that is the really important area that Oracle has focused on and it seemed to have done so very well. >> So in your view, is this, I mean you don't really hear a lot of other companies talking about this analogy of the self-driving database, is this unique? Is it differentiable for Oracle? If so, why, or maybe you could help us understand that a little bit better. >> Well, the whole strategy is unique in its breadth. It has really brought together a whole number of things together and made it of its type the best. So it has a single, whole number of data sources and database types. So it's got a very broad range of different ways that you can look at the data and the second thing that is also excellent is it's a platform. It is fully self provisioned and its functionality is very, very broad indeed. The quality of the original SQL and the query languages, etc, is very, very good indeed and it's a better agent to do joints for example, is excellent. So all of the building blocks are there and together with it's sharing of the same data with OLTP and inference and in memory data paces as well. All together the breadth of what they have is unique and very, very powerful. >> I want to come back to this but let's get into the news a little bit and the announcement. I mean, it seems like what's new in the autonomous data warehouse piece for Oracle's new tooling around four areas that so Andy Mendelsohn, the head of this group instead of the guy who releases his baby, he talked about four things. My takeaway, faster simpler loads, simplified transforms, autonomous machine learning models which are facilitating, What do you call it? Citizen data science and then faster time to insights. So tooling to make those four things happen. What's your take and takeaways on the news? >> I think those are all correct. I would add the ease of use in terms of being able to drag and drop, the user interface has been dramatically improved. Again, I think those, strategically are actually more important that the others are all useful and good components of it but strategically, I think is more important. There's ease of use, the use of apex for example, are more important. And, >> Why are they more important strategically? >> Because they focus on the end users capability. For example, one of other things that they've started to introduce is Python together with their spatial databases, for example. That is really important that you reach out to the developer as they are and what tools they want to use. So those type of ease of use things, those types of things are respecting what the end users use. For example, they haven't come out with anything like click or Tableau. They've left that there for that marketplace for the end user to use what they like best. >> Do you mean, they're not trying to compete with those two tools. They indeed had a laundry list of stuff that they supported, Talend, Tableau, Looker, click, Informatica, IBM, I had IBM there. So their claim was, hey, we're open. But so that's smart. That's just, hey, they realized that people use these tools. >> I'm trying to exclude other people, be a platform and be an ecosystem for the end users. >> Okay, so Mendelsohn who made the announcement said that Oracle's the smartphone of databases and I think, I actually think Alison kind of used that or maybe that was us planing to have, I thought he did like the iPhone of when he announced the exit data way back when the integrated hardware and software but is that how you see it, is Oracle, the smartphone of databases? >> It is, I mean, they are trying to own the complete stack, the hardware with the exit data all the way up to the databases at the data warehouses and the OLTP databases, the inference databases. They're trying to own the complete stack from top to bottom and that's what makes autonomy process possible. You can make it autonomous when you control all of that. Take away all of the requirements for IT in the business itself. So it's democratizing the use of data warehouses. It is pushing it out to the lines of business and it's simplifying it and making it possible to push out so that they can own their own data. They can manage their own data and they do not need an IT person from headquarters to help them. >> Let's stay in this a little bit more and then I want to go into some of the competitive stuff because Mendelsohn mentioned AWS several times. One of the things that struck me, he said, hey, we're basically one API 'cause we're doing analytics in the cloud, we're doing data in the cloud, we're doing integration in the cloud and that's sort of a big part of the value proposition. He made some comparisons to Redshift. Of course, I would say, if you can't find a workload where you beat your big competitor then you shouldn't be in this business. So I take those things with a grain of salt but one of the other things that caught me is that migrating from OnPrem to Oracle, Oracle Cloud was very simple and I think he might've made some comparisons to other platforms. And this to me is important because he also brought in that Gartner data. We looked at that Gardner data when they came out with it in the operational database class, Oracle smoked everybody. They were like way ahead and the reason why I think that's important is because let's face it, the Mission Critical Workloads, when you look at what's moving into AWS, the Mission Critical Workloads, the high performance, high criticality OLTP stuff. That's not moving in droves and you've made the point often that companies with their own cloud particularly, Oracle you've mentioned this about IBM for certain, DB2 for instance, customers are going to, there should be a lower risk environment moving from OnPrem to their cloud, because you could do, I don't think you could get Oracle RAC on AWS. For example, I don't think EXIF data is running in AWS data centers and so that like component is going to facilitate migration. What's your take on all that spiel? >> I think that's absolutely right. You all crown Jewels, the most expensive and the most valuable applications, the mission-critical applications. The ones that have got to take a beating, keep on taking. So those types of applications are where Oracle really shines. They own a very large high percentage of those Mission Critical Workloads and you have the choice if you're going to AWS, for example of either migrating to Oracle on AWS and that is frankly not a good fit at all. There're a lot of constraints to running large systems on AWS, large mission critical systems. So that's not an option and then the option, of course, that AWS will push is move to a Roller, change your way of writing applications, make them tiny little pieces and stitch them all together with microservices and that's okay if you're a small organization but that has got a lot of problems in its own, right? Because then you, the user have to stitch all those pieces together and you're responsible for testing it and you're responsible for looking after it. And that as you grow becomes a bigger and bigger overhead. So AWS, in my opinion needs to have a move towards a tier-one database of it's own and it's not in that position at the moment. >> Interesting, okay. So, let's talk about the competitive landscape and the choices that customers have. As I said, Mendelssohn mentioned AWS many times, Larry on the calls often take shy, it's a compliment to me. When Larry Ellison calls you out, that means you've made it, you're doing well. We've seen it over the years, whether it's IBM or Workday or Salesforce, even though Salesforce's big Oracle customer 'cause AWS, as we know are Oracle customer as well, even though AWS tells us they've off called when you peel the onion >> Five years should be great, some of the workers >> Well, as I said, I believe they're still using Oracle in certain workloads. Way, way, we digress. So AWS though, they take a different approach and I want to push on this a little bit with database. It's got more than a dozen, I think purpose-built databases. They take this kind of right tool for the right job approach was Oracle there converging all this function into a single database. SQL JSON graph databases, machine learning, blockchain. I'd love to talk about more about blockchain if we have time but seems to me that the right tool for the right job purpose-built, very granular down to the primitives and APIs. That seems to me to be a pretty viable approach versus kind of a Swiss Army approach. How do you compare the two? >> Yes, and it is to many initial programmers who are very interested for example, in graph databases or in time series databases. They are looking for a cheap database that will do the job for a particular project and that makes, for the program or for that individual piece of work is making a very sensible way of doing it and they pay for ads on it's clear cloud dynamics. The challenge as you have more and more data and as you're building up your data warehouse in your data lakes is that you do not want to have to move data from one place to another place. So for example, if you've got a Roller,, you have to move the database and it's a pretty complicated thing to do it, to move it to Redshift. It's a five or six steps to do that and each of those costs money and each of those take time. More importantly, they take time. The Oracle approach is a single database in terms of all the pieces that obviously you have multiple databases you have different OLTP databases and data warehouse databases but as a single architecture and a single design which means that all of the work in terms of moving stuff from one place to another place is within Oracle itself. It's Oracle that's doing that work for you and as you grow, that becomes very, very important. To me, very, very important, cost saving. The overhead of all those different ones and the databases themselves originate with all as open source and they've done very well with it and then there's a large revenue stream behind the, >> The AWS, you mean? >> Yes, the original database is in AWS and they've done a lot of work in terms of making it set with the panels, etc. But if a larger organization, especially very large ones and certainly if they want to combine, for example data warehouse with the OLTP and the inference which is in my opinion, a very good thing that they should be trying to do then that is incredibly difficult to do with AWS and in my opinion, AWS has to invest enormously in to make the whole ecosystem much better. >> Okay, so innovation required there maybe is part of the TAM expansion strategy but just to sort of digress for a second. So it seems like, and by the way, there are others that are doing, they're taking this converged approach. It seems like that is a trend. I mean, you certainly see it with single store. I mean, the name sort of implies that formerly MemSQL I think Monte Zweben of splice machine is probably headed in a similar direction, embedding AI in Microsoft's, kind of interesting. It seems like Microsoft is willing to build this abstraction layer that hides that complexity of the different tooling. AWS thus far has not taken that approach and then sort of looking at Snowflake, Snowflake's got a completely different, I think Snowflake's trying to do something completely different. I don't think they're necessarily trying to take Oracle head-on. I mean, they're certainly trying to just, I guess, let's talk about this. Snowflake simplified EDW, that's clear. Zero to snowflake in 90 minutes. It's got this data cloud vision. So you sign on to this Snowflake, speaking of layers they're abstracting the complexity of the underlying cloud. That's what the data cloud vision is all about. They, talk about this Global Mesh but they've not done a good job of explaining what the heck it is. We've been pushing them on that, but we got, >> Aspiration of moment >> Well, I guess, yeah, it seems that way. And so, but conceptually, it's I think very powerful but in reality, what snowflake is doing with data sharing, a lot of reading it's probably mostly read-only and I say, mostly read-only, oh, there you go. You'll get better but it's mostly read and so you're able to share the data, it's governed. I mean, it's exactly, quite genius how they've implemented this with its simplicity. It is a caching architecture. We've talked about that, we can geek out about that. There's good, there's bad, there's ugly but generally speaking, I guess my premise here I would love your thoughts. Is snowflakes trying to do something different? It's trying to be not just another data warehouse. It's not just trying to compete with data lakes. It's trying to create this data cloud to facilitate data sharing, put data in the hands of business owners in terms of a product build, data product builders. That's a different vision than anything I've seen thus far, your thoughts. >> I agree and even more going further, being a place where people can sell data. Put it up and make it available to whoever needs it and making it so simple that it can be shared across the country and across the world. I think it's a very powerful vision indeed. The challenge they have is that the pieces at the moment are very, very easy to use but the quality in terms of the, for example, joints, I mentioned, the joints were very powerful in Oracle. They don't try and do joints. They, they say >> They being Snowflake, snowflake. Yeah, they don't even write it. They would say use another Postgres >> Yeah. >> Database to do that. >> Yeah, so then they have a long way to go. >> Complex joints anyway, maybe simple joints, yeah. >> Complex joints, so they have a long way to go in terms of the functionality of their product and also in my opinion, they sure be going to have more types of databases inside it, including OLTP and they can do that. They have obviously got a great market gap and they can do that by acquisition as well as they can >> They've started. I think, I think they support JSON, right. >> Do they support JSON? And graph, I think there's a graph database that's either coming or it's there, I can't keep all that stuff in my head but there's no reason they can't go in that direction. I mean, in speaking to the founders in Snowflake they were like, look, we're kind of new. We would focus on simple. A lot of them came from Oracle so they know all database and they know how hard it is to do things like facilitate complex joints and do complex workload management and so they said, let's just simplify, we'll put it in the cloud and it will spin up a separate data warehouse. It's a virtual data warehouse every time you want one to. So that's how they handle those things. So different philosophy but again, coming back to some of the mission critical work and some of the larger Oracle customers, they said they have a thousand autonomous database customers. I think it was autonomous database, not ADW but anyway, a few stood out AON, lift, I think Deloitte stood out and as obviously, hundreds more. So we have people who misunderstand Oracle, I think. They got a big install base. They invest in R and D and they talk about lock-in sure but the CIO that I talked to and you talked to David, they're looking for business value. I would say that 75 to 80% of them will gravitate toward business value over the fear of lock-in and I think at the end of the day, they feel like, you know what? If our business is performing, it's a better business decision, it's a better business case. >> I fully agree, they've been very difficult to do business with in the past. Everybody's in dread of the >> The audit. >> The knock on the door from the auditor. >> Right. >> And that from a purchasing point of view has been really bad experience for many, many customers. The users of the database itself are very happy indeed. I mean, you talk to them and they understand why, what they're paying for. They understand the value and in terms of availability and all of the tools for complex multi-dimensional types of applications. It's pretty well, the only game in town. It's only DB2 and SQL that had any hope of doing >> Doing Microsoft, Microsoft SQL, right. >> Okay, SQL >> Which, okay, yeah, definitely competitive for sure. DB2, no IBM look, IBM lost its dominant position in database. They kind of seeded that. Oracle had to fight hard to win it. It wasn't obvious in the 80s who was going to be the database King and all had to fight. And to me, I always tell people the difference is that the chairman of Oracle is also the CTO. They spend money on R and D and they throw off a ton of cash. I want to say something about, >> I was just going to make one extra point. The simplicity and the capability of their cloud versions of all of this is incredibly good. They are better in terms of spending what you need or what you use much better than AWS, for example or anybody else. So they have really come full circle in terms of attractiveness in a cloud environment. >> You mean charging you for what you consume. Yeah, Mendelsohn talked about that. He made a big point about the granularity, you pay for only what you need. If you need 33 CPUs or the other databases you've got to shape, if you need 33, you've got to go to 64. I know that's true for everyone. I'm not sure if that's true too for snowflake. It may be, I got to dig into that a little bit, but maybe >> Yes, Snowflake has got a front end to hiding behind. >> Right, but I didn't want to push it that a little bit because I want to go look at their pricing strategies because I still think they make you buy, I may be wrong. I thought they make you still do a one-year or two-year or three-year term. I don't know if you can just turn it off at any time. They might allow, I should hold off. I'll do some more research on that but I wanted to make a point about the audits, you mentioned audits before. A big mistake that a lot of Oracle customers have made many times and we've written about this, negotiating with Oracle, you've got to bring your best and your brightest when you negotiate with Oracle. Some of the things that people didn't pay attention to and I think they've sort of caught onto this is that Oracle's SOW is adjudicate over the MSA, a lot of legal departments and procurement department. Oh, do we have an MSA? With all, Yes, you do, okay, great and because they think the MSA, they then can run. If they have an MSA, they can rubber stamp it but the SOW really dictateS and Oracle's gotcha there and they're really smart about that. So you got to bring your best and the brightest and you've got to really negotiate hard with Oracle, you get trouble. >> Sure. >> So it is what it is but coming back to Oracle, let's sort of wrap on this. Dominant position in mission critical, we saw that from the Gartner research, especially for operational, giant customer base, there's cloud-first notion, there's investing in R and D, open, we'll put a question Mark around that but hey, they're doing some cool stuff with Michael stuff. >> Ecosystem, I put that, ecosystem they're promoting their ecosystem. >> Yeah, and look, I mean, for a lot of their customers, we've talked to many, they say, look, there's actually, a tail at the tail way, this saves us money and we don't have to migrate. >> Yeah. So interesting, so I'll give you the last word. We started sort of focusing on the announcement. So what do you want to leave us with? >> My last word is that there are platforms with a certain key application or key parts of the infrastructure, which I think can differentiate themselves from the Azures or the AWS. and Oracle owns one of those, SAP might be another one but there are certain platforms which are big enough and important enough that they will, in my opinion will succeed in that cloud strategy for this. >> Great, David, thanks so much, appreciate your insights. >> Good to be here. Thank you for watching everybody, this is Dave Vellante for The Cube. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante as we watch an historic election unfold before our eyes we look back at the early days of the millennium with the memorable presidential race of 2000 that decade of course was defined by 911 which permanently reshaped our thinking and we exited that decade at the tail end of a massive financial crisis only to enter the 2010s with the hope and the momentum of fiscal stimulus a flat globe job growth and very importantly the ascendancy of the cloud cloud computing unquestionably powered the innovation engine over the last 10 years and the pandemic marks a new era where adoption of cloud data and ai have been accelerated by at least two to three years and that's what's going to shape the future of the technology industry and frankly all businesses and organizations hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of thecube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we're going to update you on our latest cloud market share and dig in to some fresh october survey data from our partners over at etr let me start just with a brief summary of the latest action that's going on in cloud now quite interestingly each of the big three cloud players they showed nearly identical year-on-year growth rates in q3 as they did in q2 now we're going to dig into that in a moment but our data suggests that these three companies combined will account for more than 75 billion dollars in infrastructure as a service and platform as a service revenue in 2020 and they're potentially on track to hit 100 billion in 2021. customer survey data indicates that cio's top two infrastructure priorities remain security and cloud migration now that said as we previously reported the cloud it's not immune to the pandemic the remote worker pivot well it's a positive for cloud hasn't completely eradicated certain headwinds now what i mean here is that because the cloud vendors are now so large they're somewhat exposed to the softness in the overall i.t spending climate and also industries that have been hit hardest by the pandemic now would the cloud growth have been better if the pandemic didn't hit we'll never know for sure but our data suggests no covet has definitely been a benefactor to cloud in our view cloud will remain at the center of technological innovation for the foreseeable future the economics of cloud are becoming so compelling that we think the power of the big cloud companies will only increase this decade now importantly we're talking about the costs of running hyper-distributed systems we're not commenting here on what they charge customers that's a different story we believe the cost structure for the hyperscalers is superior to alternative approaches and we believe this advantage will only accelerate over the next several years we also believe that competition is going to continue to drive competitive pricing and innovation all right let's look at our latest market share numbers for the big three this chart shows our estimates of aws azure and the google cloud platform now viewers of this program know that these are is and pass figures and you also know that aws is the only company that provides clean numbers on that sector whereas azure and gcp are estimates that we make based on tidbits of guidance that the companies give us and survey data that we capture and other modeling that we do now as we've said we'll end this year it's about 75 billion in revenue or maybe even a little bit more note that for these three note that we've we've slightly restated some of our earlier estimates for azure to reconcile some differences that we had between constant currency and actual growth we try to keep things in constant currency where possible sorry for that but sometimes that happens azure according to our estimates as we reported last week is now 18 of microsoft's overall revenue number we had it at 19 that last week but when i dug in we made some adjustments so we toned it down a bit aws represents a much smaller percentage of course of amazon's revenues at about 12 percent but it represents 56 percent of amazon's profits gcp on the other hand accounts for less than five percent of google's overall revenue which as we've stated a few weeks ago needs more attention from google but look at the growth rates for these three platforms and the respective size of their is and pass businesses hear all this talk about repatriation i.e that what i mean by that is people go to the cloud but they're unhappy or the bill is too high it's too expensive so then they come back on prem well you just don't see that in the numbers so you gotta be careful when vendor a vendor tries to sell you on that trend i don't buy it except for selective situations now let's bring in some of the etr data and compare the spending momentum for each of the big three you've seen these wheel graphs before they show the breakdown of net score for aws microsoft and google now one note these figures represent these three companies overall within the etr technology taxonomy so for example they don't include amazon's retail business of course but they do include for example microsoft's entire tech portfolio not just the cloud the green portion of the wheel represents increases in spending via new adoptions and increased spending whereas the red sections show decreases via lower spending and defections net score which i've highlighted in the orange is calculated by subtracting the two reds from the two true greens in other words adoptions and increase minus decrease and replacements the takeaway here is these are all pretty strong with aws leading the pack microsoft is exceptionally strong as we pointed out last last week because they're so huge and they still have net scores comparable to aws which is a pure play gcp is a laggard and is showing softness in the data despite a sanguine outlook that we had back in 2019 based on survey data i don't know perhaps google's smaller presence muted their customers ability to take advantage of the platform the thinking there is the customers maybe needed to pivot to the cloud so quickly and aws and azure were the incumbents and that was maybe the most expedient path hence the higher increases in the spend more category but you do see gcp um they had 13 new adoptions which is pretty good so we'll keep looking at that regardless again these are not pure play cloud comparisons but they give a good indication of spending momentum i'd also note that all three show very low defections well each is showing solid increases in new adoptions especially google as i mentioned so that's kind of interesting to see but again google much much smaller you would expect that now i want to turn our attention to one of the hottest areas in cloud which is serverless and this is a pure play comparison so serverless let me start there it's a strange term because it's not really accurate but it's stuck serverless computing is a model where the cloud platform dynamically delivers services as the application requires so so you don't have to configure the compute and the containers for example rather when an application needs resources it goes and gets them and you only pay for when the services are actually invoked and in use so it's really good for workloads that spin up and spin down very frequently it kind of reminds me in concept anyway of the component tree that we saw in the days of soa if you remember that services oriented architecture but now this is cloud it's cloud native it's a whole new world and it's increasingly a popular model and as we'll show in a moment there's a lot of spending momentum in this area but before we do that i want to share some comments made by andy jassy a while back about serverless take a listen it's a good question and you know i really the comment i made was really about um directionally what amazon would do you know in this in the very earliest days of aws jeff used to say a lot if i were starting amazon today i'd have built it on top of aws we didn't have all the capability and all the functionality at that very moment but he knew what was coming and he saw what people were still able to accomplish even with where the services were at that point i think the same thing is true here with lambda which is i think if amazon were starting today it's a given they would build it on the cloud and i think with a lot of the applications that comprise amazon's consumer business we would build those on on our serverless capabilities now now lambda of course jesse referring to lambda that's amazon's serverless offering and if you think about amazon's retail business and take for example the frequent spin up and spin down of resources for something like black monday serverless would be a much more cost effective approach same for a managed data warehouse service for example where you know you don't want to pay for the compute if it's idle the app just calls for the compute when it's needed so it's a very popular model and it's got increased momentum today and you see that in this slide it shows the net score breakdown for serverless for azure aws is lambda which is again is their serverless offering and google cloud functions again you're shipping functions to the application that's why it's called functions look at the net scores azure functions nearly 70 aws at 65 google again lagging and that's a bit of a concern because this is a really really hot space all right let's move on and look at the competitive landscape as we like to do often and update you on that this xy graph is one of our favorites and it shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share on the horizontal market share is a measure of pervasiveness in the data set in the upper right you also see a table that ranks each vendor my net score and it includes the shared n in other words the number of mentions in this sector for each vendor now you can you can see up top in the middle i've selected on the cloud computing category so this represents only the cloud businesses for each of these players there's a little bit of nuance here and that we've selected on microsoft azure there's a category in the etr taxonomy for that and we're comparing that with aws overall so there's there are things in the aws overall number that fit into the other parts of the taxonomy like maybe ai collaboration etc whereas azures and gcp are just the cloud segments so i i know it's a bit strange because aws is all cloud but don't get caught up in the taxonomical nuance the point is it's good to be azure in aws it's shown there when you look at the upper right of the chart here they stand out and they stand alone in cloud leadership google cloud is they have nice elevated levels but they're much much smaller they don't have the presence in the market now look at that hybrid cloud zone emerging we've talked about this sometimes in the past and and i want to call it vmware cloud on aws red hat open shift and vmware cloud itself like vmware cloud foundation and their other cloud services all of these appear to be gaining traction and you can see in the number of occurrences in the upper right that shared end that i talked about we're starting to see real numbers that are meaningful in this space vmware cloud on aws for example has a net score of 53 percent with 116 accounts within that total respondent sample that you see there in the middle left of 1438 that's how many cios and technology buyers responded to the etr survey in october you look at open shift at 45 net score and that's with 82 accounts now openshift is in beta with what looked to be some really strong offerings on aws and you can see for context i've added dell emc's cloud offerings hpe's cloud offerings and the oracle cloud and ibm cloud and also rackspace dell actually pretty strong with a net score of 20 and 185 shared accounts much much higher than dell overall which is kind of in the red zone oracle ibm you see those rackspace you know organizing not killing it rackspace is kind of in the big negative so that's a concern but anyway we'd like for these guys we'd like to see the data match the marketing rhetoric for the the guys that are in the red and look alibaba is starting to to show up in the server there's only 26 shared ends but we thought we'd we'd put it in there those three key points again aws and microsoft keep on trucking google needs to do better hybrid is becoming real and that bodes well for multi-cloud and the legacy on-prem guys they got a lot of work to do they're under a lot of pressure the pivot to cloud has not been easy for them uh and it's still a case where they're i've talked about this a lot they're they're declines in their on-premises offerings they're not being offset by the new stuff the cloud momentum all right i want to close out by sharing some of the conversations and thoughts that we've had in the community around sas and its impact on cloud we really have been focusing on ias and pass of the sas layer obviously up the stack so let me first share that there's a lot of talk around and has been for years about aws they're slowing growth rates and whether or not they'll have to enter the sas market to expand their total available market and i've said consistently while i never say never about aws i don't think so at least not yet this chart plots the big three cloud players note aws is a bigger piece of this pie now that i've turned off the cloud computing filter and i know more nuances but the data wonks will will find you know see this and they'll ask me about it this is all of aws portfolio and again it's only the microsoft azure portfolio so you see it aws now overtakes azure on the x-axis i.e market share now we've plotted some of the major sas vendors and you can see servicenow and salesforce both very large and they have really strong spending momentum and servicenow's you know pushing 100 billion dollars in market value they've surpassed workday quite some time ago workday's got less presence but they've got really really solid net score and i got to say i'm impressed with sap despite some of the earnings challenges that they've been having they're right up there with splunk and tableau splunk has softened in recent surveys and i've i've also plotted in there netsuite and oracle fusion which are just okay and that is i think for now anyway aws is going to position as the best place and the most friendly and highest quality cloud in which to run your sas for example workday runs on aws aws is salesforce's preferred infrastructure platform so my premise here is just like retail companies might want not want to run on aws a number of sas companies that compete with microsoft they might think twice about running on azure so aws would be better off for now trying to attract those sas players and drive their services and sticking to infrastructure and the pass layer snowflake is actually kind of interesting and i've added them for context because their netscore is always kind of a bellwether it's really off the charts and they're an isv running on the cloud they're different from some of the other sas players and the snowflake is a database okay and most of snowflake's business runs on aws and aws competes with snowflake with redshift but aws has the best cloud and drives a lot of business for snowflake and vice versa so it's kind of interesting snow snowflake to redshift and a much smaller example is kind of like netflix to amazon prime video to compete they both thrive so i think aws is going to continue to grow by attracting sas players as the preferred platform and they'll also attract developers and try to disrupt sas players like servicenow which runs on its own cloud i remember years ago david floyer and i said that servicenow was it was awesome but at some point its infrastructure cost structure its infrastructure cost structure is going to be less competitive than those companies that are running on hyperscale clouds certainly the hyperscale clouds themselves and servicenow they have this multi-instance architecture which just can't easily port over to the cloud but it can charge a lot which it does now at some point some sharp developers are going to look at all this and say whoa see that service now i can build this for less and they'll attack servicenow and their seat base license model maybe with the consumption pricing model and a platform that's perhaps or a set of services that are perhaps less expensive you're seeing this to a you know a certain degree with like elastic inside the application performance management space so there's some some things to watch there but there are those who firmly believe that aws will and must enter the sas space directly we talked last week about how beneficial microsoft's application business is for azure and what a flywheel that is but for me i think we're not there yet let's give it some time i think maybe four to five years before aws may even start to think about filling some of the space up the stack now maybe they'll find some unique opportunities to do that for instance at the edge but i think that's way off okay so bottom line it's good to be in tech these days it's even better to be in the cloud and it's best if you're aws and microsoft and i don't see that changing for a while now remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen i publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com you can get in touch with me through email it's david at siliconangle.com feel free to dm me on twitter at d vallante i post on linkedin love your comments there thank you and don't forget to check out etr plus for all the survey action thanks for watching this episode of thecube insights powered by etr this is dave vellante stay safe stay sane and we'll see you next time you

>> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California, it's theCUBE! Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost, John Troyer, and this is theCUBE's fourth year of coverage of KubeCon, CloudNativeCon 2019. We're in here San Diego and happy to welcome to the program a first-time guest, Amr Abdelhalem, who is the head of Cloud Platforms at Fidelity Investments. Of course, Fidelity, we love talking to an end user. Big financial company. Your boss was up on the main stage in front of 8000 people, just in that room, there's over 12,000 here in person. Fidelity itself, you know, founded in 1946, first computers in 1965. In the last year, you've now got over 500 applications running in the public cloud, and Fidelity also joined the CNCS. So let's start there, Amr, if we would. Just kind of how does Fidelity look at kind of Kubernetes and CNCS? How does that fit into your company's mission? >> Absolutely, I mean thank you so much for inviting me here. Innovation in Fidelity is, a big part of the process. We're very focused at this time in cloud computing and machine learning, NEI technology. We had the first financial robot in 2015, I believe. We have the first augmented reality financial advisor, was actually released this year as a prototype. So a part of that innovation, we're seeing, CNCF and cloud computing and Cloud Native, is keys for strategy for our innovation part. >> All right, maybe if you could, give us a little bit of the breadth and depth of your team, what they cover, cloud platforms. What does that mean inside of Fidelity? >> Sure, so Fidelity had over, like, over 10,000 of IT. Hundreds and hundreds of develop teams, thousands of applications. It's globally distributed. It had all kind of workloads, that you can imagine. And it's in a highly regulated environment as well. And that's where we are seeing that we are all looking for this autonomy between teams, and agility, and improved time to market and customer experience. And the key for that is Cloud Native. We're seeing Kubernetes and CNCF and Cloud Native technology is like a key player for us when we go, multicloud to hypercloud model. >> Can you talk a little bit about more into that portfolio of technologies? You know, there's a lot of talk about public cloud verses on-prem, and, as if one thing is going to, one knife is going to be the only thing you need in your kitchen. >> Amr: Right. >> So you have a portfolio of platforms, you have a portfolio of destinations and a portfolio of applications. Can you talk a little bit, both about what you're using, and maybe how you're organized to access and address all those needs? >> Absolutely. So, I think, 2019, I would say, is the year of multicloud-hypercloud modeling, right? Actually, I would say that 2020 is going to more about distributed cloud, where you can distribute your workload across multicloud providers. We're not there yet. I don't think we're, anyone, is there yet. But at least we should start somewhere. We already has this multicloud providing. Distributing the workload itself between, I mean, it's a journey to move thousands of applications and thousands workloads and data as well, between on-premises data centers to a public cloud. You need to move through this journey of hypercloud models. And be able to move apps slowly and aggressively to other apps. >> All right. Amr, I want to dig into what you talked about there, multiclouds. >> Sure. >> So when you talk about multiple clouds, yes, everybody has that. I've got, walk us through a little bit, you know, where you have workloads and how many public clouds you use in life, but I want to set you up with a premise. You know, we really said, for multicloud to really be a reality-- >> Amr: Right. >> The value that you extract should be greater than the sum of its parts. And most of us lived through the multi vendor years, and that wasn't necessarily happiness and joy, when I had to span between those environments. So how do we make sure that multicloud doesn't become the least common denominator or a detriment to what I need to do with my data, my applications, the value that the company has? >> And that's why we are here. We are actually incorporated at Kubecon for that reason. That where we see this abstract layer that guarantee you the portability for moving your application from one cloud provider to another. That capability of the ability to deploy the same workload into multiclouds, the ability to have the workload itself, managed in different characteristic, next to assess services that you will find in AWS via Azure, via Google Cloud, the others. That's were we need that flexibility, and Kubernetes and Cloud Native itself, the ability to have the same deployable structure for your application, the ability to have the same ecosystem around that construction, around that artifact. The ability to move all of that, as-is, from one cloud provider to another cloud provider is big, big key. And that you can only find with script native. >> All right, Amr, can you share which cloud or clouds you're working on today, and what is your roadmap, do you have a timeline to when that vision becomes reality? >> At this moment, we're with a major cloud provider keys that, you guys can name them, all the colors. >> Stu: You're using all of them, okay. >> All the colors. >> And how are you using Kubernetes today? Where are you in that journey? >> So Kubernetes is mainly, I mean, I would say the majority is still running on premise. We are very intensively moving to public cloud in the Kubernates side. At this moment, actually, we're building an offer, inside my team, which is a cloud platform team. That offer will guarantee that portability between all the cloud provider. So for development team to port our platform, it will be kind of seamless for them, where it's going to land, is it going to be landing in AWS or Azures or on premise. >> Okay, joining the CNCF as a member, bring us inside. I understand the journey. Are there any specific goals you have? How do you measure the investment, and what you're hoping to, both as a company as well as part of the community, get out of it? >> So we have a big hold right now and opensource our project our little project about multiclouding, and our focus is mainly about the high regulation part. We're very focused in compliance and security, and in that way we can, I think, we can contribute back to the open source community around that. >> So Amr, you talked about, you know, we talked about the platforms here, and Kubernetes, but that goes hand-in-hand with the culture, and the up-skilling, and the organization and the processes. What intrigued me is you said, well, we put some things on Kubernetes on-prem, and then, and you know some things in the cloud, but then we're going to move some of those apps over time, we'll move to other appropriate homes. So that implies that you've changed process and you've changed, or maybe to be able to build cloud native apps, and that was actually separate, in some cases, from being in the public cloud. Is that the case, can you talk a little bit about how you've approached from the perspective of people who are listening or watching who are IT admins, and wondering how a company, a major organization, like your org, gets there? >> Right, and this is a main challenge. The challenge is not in the technology side itself, or the tools, that seems a majority there in the ecosystem at this moment. The challenge is mainly building the sculpture inside teams. So we're building many like, star-point or COEs across all of our business unit and all of our teams. And again, to build a sculpture across 10,000 developers plus, that's a major. >> And it's funny, because sometimes people go, well, COE is a dirty word, right, don't do a COE, but you said multiple COEs distributed across. >> So it's like nuclear reaction, our COEs, the first one, that will communicate with few COEs, each one of them would be with other COEs, and that's how that chain will go and expand quite quickly. >> All right. >> And this is happening at this moment. >> So, Amr, I have a few friends that this is the first time that they've come, and they go into the keynote, or they look at the schedule, and they're a bit overwhelmed. >> Amr: Right >> They say, it's not just Kubernetes, there's dozens and dozens of projects. The ecosystem is sprawling. If you could, give us a little walkthrough as to, the projects you're using, any key partners that you're allowed to talk about that are useful in helping you to achieve your mission. >> So, we're very focused at this moment, actually, in the Kubernetes project itself. We start exploring some of the open source project and in the CICD part, additional to that, we are starting using few frameworks like Flux, this is one of the frameworks like GitOps in general, building this culture of GitOps deployment, and moving toward, like, more ops of deployment, that's one of areas that we are very invested in. We're exploring service mesh at this time, and I hope like, we're going to get, like, maybe next year we can talk about service mesh more. >> Yeah, is there something that's holding you back on service mesh, 'cause there's a few options out there at various maturity levels, and who's driving them. What will some of your criteria be? >> I would say it's mainly, I'm waiting little bit more, I feel like 214 for me, when we had that discussion, instead of sitting here, 214, you will be discussing Mesos via Kubernetes via Swarm. So I think we are still moving at this time, service mesh as well. >> Any partners that you can speak to from a technology standpoint that are helping you, that you're allowed to talk about? >> Amr: Well, I mean, first of all CNCF. >> Yeah. >> I greatly appreciate all their help in that. Most of the public cloud providers are helping us in this areas as well, yeah. >> I'll be interested in catching you after the show and seeing how you thought, I mean this is, in some ways, it's a science project a few years ago, and now it's this robust thing. Did you bring, I'm curious, did you bring mostly engineers, mostly managers, a mix of the two? >> Amr: Mostly engineers, yeah, mostly engineers. >> Hands on? >> All hands on, I mean, this is like another change in culture right now, where most of our engineers are in innovation, like, they are full stack engineers. We're using VDI process at this moment, to move forward. All our road maps, in turn, have been published, it's being used like evolving process, to go, like, with continuous deployment, and continues feature enhancement for the teams. So it's fantastic honestly, yeah. >> Okay, Amr, what things does your team hope to achieve this week, anything that is on your roadmap, or on the public open source road map that you're waiting on? We talked a little bit, service mesh? >> We're definitely exploring OPA at this moment. I think that's like, that's big potentials there. So that's one of them, yeah. I think going through that showroom and try to see what option we have as well, that's on the area where we going to be very interested at. >> OPA, the Policy Agent, I mean, you talked about compliance before >> Yeah. >> A few years ago, with folks in the financial industry, you would have some arguments, some discussions, sometimes heated discussions about security in the cloud and et cetera and highly regulated industry, yet, kind of, maybe ironically or somewhat, maybe surprisingly for some, right? Very advanced in many areas, the whole industry. That's well known if you're in it. Do you still have to have discussions about compliance and security in the cloud? Maybe, I guess, maybe when you talk about data locality and international borders more? >> Right, and that's why we already have our own policy management tool, which is built in, we build it ourself, and that's where I see the potential, like, our moving from building it yourself to more of using an open source project and try to reuse it and contribute back to that open source community, like something like OPA, for example. So that's the next generation, where I can see it will help us as well. >> Amr, any advice you'd give your peers out there, if they're new to the community? Things you've learned along the journey so far? >> I would say start small, don't boil the ocean. Start with small COEs, small pilots program. Look for success, look for goals. Technology is great, but don't just move toward technology, because it's a moving target, it will never end. Try to set business goals for you, like targets for your project, and that's how you can achieve success. >> Well, Amr, really appreciate you sharing Fidelity's update. >> Thank you. >> Wish you and your team the best of luck here at the show and beyond, and we definitely hope to catch up soon. >> Thank you, I appreciate it. >> All right, for John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, be sure to checkout theCUBE.net for all of the coverage of this, as well as all the cloud, Cloud Native, and more shows that we have. Thank you for watching theCUBE. (upbeat electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello everyone, I'm John Furrier here in the Palo Alto theCUBE studios. I'm the co-host of theCUBE. Also co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. We're here for some big news from Veritas. We're with Eric Seidman, who's the director of Solution's Marketing for Veritas. Veritas is introducing today and the press release is on the wire, Veritas Predictive Insights. Eric, thanks for coming in today and sharing thew news. >> Thanks John, absolutely, thanks for having me. >> So you guys have a unique new thing for Veritas. Not new to the industry, but new in capabilities, called Predictive Insights. I know Dave Vellante is actually linked on your press release and covered it in Chicago as an embargo. This is exciting news for Veritas because you guys have so much customer installed base, tons of data. Talk about what this new product is. What's the news? >> Well, thanks John, actually the news it's pretty exciting. Our customers are very excited and receptive about it. What it's actually doing is helping our customers reduce both planned and unplanned down time. And the way we're doing that is with an analytics engine that we've developed that's taking all the data from over 15,000 of our appliances around the world. We've been collecting that data for three years. We have hundreds of millions of data points from that. And we're utilizing our own AI ML engines that we've created to be able to predict things in customer's environments that may cause them down time or outages, and fix those before they happen. That's why our customers are really exciting about it. >> So how much does this cost? >> Well, it doesn't really cost anything. It's a value add. You know if our customers are utilizing our Veritas auto support services today, then as of yesterday, the service is turned on and we're already looking at their systems and creating this intelligence on them. >> So this is immediately valuable. >> And immediately evaluate those. >> So this is a new product from Veritas that takes existing operational data from your customer's environment. >> Correct. >> You guys are matching in your corpus of meta data. >> Exactly. >> A telemetry data, what, hundreds of millions of signals, call center, real log data, real outages and real things. >> Right, right. >> And creating machine learning and AI on top of it to extract value for you guys or for the customer? >> Well it's really for the customer. The benefit for the customer is that we have insights into you know our world wide universe of customers. But we can look at individual systems and say, why is this one operating differently than the others? And then the machine learning will actually determine that the ones that are operating really well have this patch and this patch installed. You know those types of things. And then we can apply that learning and that model to a particular customer's system. >> And they get a dashboard. >> And they get a dashboard that'll highlight what we call the system reliability score. So there's this, you know in big enterprises there's a lot of fatigue associated with events that are occurring all the time. You think of an enterprise, we have customers with many, many just net backup appliances alone. But you think of their entire infrastructure and all the alerts that they're getting. It creates a lot of fatigue. A lot of things go unfixed because they're minor events, like maybe a patch needs to be installed or a firmware update. While they're fixing the more hair on fire problems. But then ultimately those what looked like smaller events build up and build up and then they create outages. So what we're able to do is to identify which systems have potential anomalies. Highlight those very visually. Then they can drill down and we'll have prescriptive maintenance that can be taken to improve that. >> So site reliability score, we'll get to that in a second, I think that's a big deal. I want to read the press release headline. >> Okay. >> Veritas's Predictive Insights uses original intelligence AI, machine learning, ML, to predict and prevent unplanned service. Now the key word there is unplanned service. This is kind of the doomsday scenario for customers. They got a large data center or large infrastructure devices. Unplanned basically means an outage, if something happens, something bad happens. >> Yeah, something bad happens. >> And no one likes that, so what you guys are doing is giving them a valuated dashboard that taps into a product. So if, correct me if I'm wrong, but if a customer that has Veritas, if they have the products, they get the service. If they become a customer, they now have the capability built in out of the gate. >> Absolutely, right. >> And so they see all this, so you're taking all the data from years of experience. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Giving them a dashboard to help them look at unplanned down time type scenarios, and give them specific actions to take, particularly analytics and prescriptive analytics for them. >> Exactly, so what we're trying to really achieve for our customers is to use that intelligence and machine learning to identify things that may cause an outage in the future and prevent that outage from occurring, causing that down time, by taking remedial action in advance of that happening. And that's the beauty of Predictive Insights. That's really what it's providing for our customers. >> So you guys have this always on feature called auto support feature. >> Correct. >> That kicks in and it brings the system reliability score, SRS. I think this is important. I want you to explain this, I think this is a trend we're seeing certainly on the Cloud side of the market. Google has pioneered this concept called site reliability engineer over years of practice and they make their infrastructure work great. So we know that that kind of concept of having reliability, you guys are now giving a score to each appliance. >> Correct. >> It's almost like a health detector or like credit score. >> Definitely, credit score is a good analogy of that. >> So explain SRS, what's it mean for the customer and what's the impact to them? >> Yeah, so I don't know if you ever like, maybe you use one of those credit scoring apps os something like that, where it's monitoring your credit from three different agencies or whatever. That's kind of what we're doing, only the data sets are coming from a much broader set of appliances, right. But we're showing you your system reliability score, credit score if you will. And then we're showing you very prescriptively the processes you can take to improve your credit score, if you will, or your system's health and reliability. So that might be installing a firmware patch. Installing software update, things of that nature. Replacing some drives that may fail in the future. And all of those steps will then increase that liability score. >> And also you see in the hacking world, you know that one of the biggest parts of security breaches is not loading a patch. >> Yeah, exactly. >> The unplanned, unforeseen things are you know some sort of thing goes on, a hurricane, wild fire. You never know what's going to happen, so you got to be prepared for those kinds of infrastructure change or whatever. So I get that, so the operators can have a nice dashboard. I totally buy that. I want to get into the impact to the more on business side. How does this help the business owner that's your customer, does this help them with planning, refresh rates, total cost of ownership? Can you just talk about the impact of how this data relates to their job? Because I'd be like, what's in it for me? >> Yeah, no, exactly. And there's really three key areas that we're addressing for our customers. I mean the first one is around improving their operational efficiency, right. Again, reducing that alert fatigue and making it easier on the infrastructure management to do their job with less headaches, with less dashboards lighting up. So it's very, very prescriptive on highlighting what needs to be done and helping them through that process. The other area's around the prescriptive potential fault detection. And fixing those anomalies before they can actually cause a down time event, right, doing that in advance. So that's reducing the planned and unplanned down time, which can be significant in terms of cost to your business. One of the analysts states that this 20 million a year in cost associated with down time events like that, and that varies by industry. >> And that's a dart at the board, it's a big number. >> It's a big number, yeah. >> You pick your number, right, and see which one. >> And then the third area is really around helping our customers have better predictability into what their utilization requirements are. So the benefit there is really helping them improve their ROI on our appliances. Because now they don't have to over buy and over provisions at capacity because we can show them the trend data, the amount of efficiency they're getting from data. And they can right size their appliances in terms of performance capacity, and then we can warn them in advance. >> That's a real big thing is what's happening there. That's proactive. >> It's very proactive. >> It's not reactive. >> Exactly. >> Well you can solve on the reactive side because you just fix it. But then the proactive side is really where things break as you blow over capacity, you might want to add more. >> Yeah, believe it or not, those types of things have caused down time events in our customers, where they're assuming their backups are going to complete, as an example with net backup appliances, and yet they're out of capacity. And at the last moment that's a fire drill for them. So we can show them out 30, 60, 90 days, what they're utilization is, and then a threshold is at this point in time you're going to have potential outage, some kind of problem. And so we recommend that you add this capacity before that ever occurs. >> Alright, talk about the customer reaction to that. You guys, actually it was announced today, you talk to customers all the time. When you showed customers this in pre-launch, what was some of the feedback you guys heard? What were the key areas, what did they hone in on, what was the key things about the Predictive Insights that made them get jazzed up about this? >> Yeah, so it's really I would say it covers the two key areas that I already mentioned. One of 'em is helping prevent unplanned down time. That's a big concern for our customers in any industry. And this is going to be able to help them overcome that you know kind of rear view mirror look as to what's happening in the data center. And fixing a problem after it's occurred. Now they'll be able to be in advance of that and eliminate or at least significantly reduce those types of issues. And then the other one is helping, again, in that event fatigue at the operational model. That's where we've gotten the best feedback. >> So I'm going to ask you a hard question, which is, hey you know, predictive analytics has been around for awhile, pre-descriptive. why now, what's different about this opportunity? Obviously free is good because your customers get turned on pretty quickly. They get the benefits immediately, and new customers get it. I get that piece. >> Yeah. >> But what's different about you guys with this versus what might be out in the market? >> Yeah, I would say the key differentiation is that we have this very, very large universe of installed base systems that we've been gathering data on for over three years now. So the more data you have, the more data points you have. The better results you'll get from a machine learning type of environment. And we're still collecting data, both from the machines that are coming in from the telemetry data, as well as from our service personnel. So that right off the bat makes our solution unique than others that may have been like out sooner, in that we've developed a rich data set that is being applied to the machine learning. And hence, our results out the gate are very, very good. >> And you're using that, you're not actually charging for it. So that's another big one. >> Yeah, that's true too. >> So let's get into the specifics on the rollout. So this is a digital transformation table stake. You guys are checking a big box here. >> Sure. >> This is good. It gives your product some capability that levels that meta data, and that is what this data driven world is about. And certainly IoT is even going to make this even more of a table stake. >> Absolutely. >> On the rollout side, it's all appliances, Veritas. >> Uh huh. >> And then software only and then you're going to go beyond Veritas, is that right? >> Yeah. >> Explain that, what does that mean? So I get the appliances. What does software only mean and what does beyond Veritas mean? >> Yeah, so just to reiterate, today it's our appliances only. But many of our customers consume our solutions of software. And they're putting it on their bring our own server model. Probably about 40% of our customers, right. So we believe we can add this type of capability to be able to provide insights into our software that's installed on independent third party hardware as well. Maybe some of the capabilities won't be as rich, but we're going to start building those capabilities over time and try to bring in that data and help those customers that are software only customers. >> And that's on the road map? >> That's on the road map. >> Okay, so it's not available today? Okay, beyond Veritas? >> Yeah, so obviously many of our customers today are protecting data on prime, protecting data in the Cloud or some kind of hybrid model. And we support, we don't really care where the customers want to store their data. We're capable of protecting it and helping them achieve whatever those Cloud type of initiatives are in that environment. So an obvious next step would be to, hey how can we bring this to help you know where your data is located and how it's working in those environments? Is that back up going to be able to be restored, as an example? So we're looking at future capabilities to add on to this. There's going to be huge value to our customers. >> This is great news. Thanks for coming in and sharing. I really appreciate it. I want to get your thoughts on some observations that we've been making. Certainly theCUBE coverage of Veritas has been increased. Dave Vellante's been out on the road with the team, looked at some of the new back up recovery versions, looking at new UI, kind of new Veritas going on here. >> It kind of is. >> What's the vibe going on in Veritas? What's new about Veritas for the folks watching now and saying this is really cool. Veritas is cool and relevant right now. You guys are a product market fit. You guys got kind of a new Veritas vibe going on. What's it all about? Share your thoughts. >> Yeah, so I think there's, you know, some people call us legacy, right? But I don't think that's necessarily a bad term, right. I meant like when I'm gone, I hope I've left a legacy, right, that's worthwhile. And so we have that legacy, which is great. Because we've been adding, there's value for our customers for many, many years. But what's new and exciting I think for us is that we're able to provide solutions that are very, very simple to utilize, very easy to accommodate whatever their requirements are, whether it's on print or hybrid or in the Cloud, we don't really care. So we've kind of progressed I would say into a very, very modern architecture for what we're doing. And meeting the requirements today of what our customer's are doing as well as looking forward. And this Predictive Insights piece I think is just another manifestation on how we're progressing as a company, what we can bring to today on the current problems in the data center, and also looking out in terms of where the future requirements are as well. And we're ready for those. >> Well legacy is a great word. I love you brought that up because it's a double edge sword. If you're a legacy and you don't do anything and you rest on your legacy, then you kind of, you're just milking that until the legacy is dry. >> Fair. >> But if you look at what Microsoft's done, they're classified as a legacy vendor. Office was shrink wrapped software. >> Yeah. >> Satya Nadella comes over and now they're the darling of Cloud. They've shifted their products and execution to be what customers want, which is Cloud. Now they've got Office365, Azures, you know have been repurposed. There's some stuff they could still work on, but clearly cleared the runway. >> Yeah. >> And Oracle, not so much, Microsoft has. So this is a Veritas kind of vibe that's going on similarly to Microsoft. You guys are looking, hey we've got to install a base. We're going to use that and leverage the assets of that installed base, that legacy. Harness it and make it part of the digital transformation. Is that kind of the vibe? >> No, exactly, and I think Microsoft is a great example. I mean we're in tight partnership with Azure as a matter of fact. I just came from one of our vision solution's stages where a gentleman from Azure shared the stage with us and talking about our partnerships and all that. So I mean great example, but we're bringing those capabilities into the Cloud era, if you will. We have solutions that run natively in Cloud, help that environment, so. >> Making the transition to digital transformation. Veritas, the new Veritas, they got the solutions that are Cloud enabled. Using data for the benefit of the customers, not just trying to bolt it on and make more money. They're actually bringing value to the install base and changing the game up. Eric Seidman here inside theCUBE. Director of Solutions Marketing at Veritas. Part of theCUBE conversation, part of their news coverage of their Predictive Insights. I'm John Furrier, here in the Palo Alto studios, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(electronic music) >> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering NetApp Insight 2018. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of NetApp Insight 2018. We are in Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas, I'm Lisa Martin, with Stu Miniman. And we have a couple of guests joining us now from the A-Team, cue the music rights too. We've got Phoebe Goh, Cloud architect from NetApp, and we've got Paul Stringfellow, one of our CUBE alumni, technical director of Gardner Systems, one of NetApp's partners. Guys thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE. >> You're welcome. >> In your matching outfits! >> Thank you for having us. >> So first of all, this morning, before the general session started, I saw both of you on camera talking a little bit about the A-Team. For our audience who might not be familiar with that, I know it's been around for five years. Phoebe, talk to us a little bit about the A-Team, who composes it, obviously we've got a channel partner, it's not just NetAppians, but give our viewers a little bit of an overview of the A-Team. >> NetApp really appreciates our advocates from channel partners and also from our customers. We really love hearing from them, and we also love giving them back information about what we do, and where we're going with our vision and our strategy. So, we have channel partners on the A-Team as well as customers, and technical advisors from NetApp, such as myself, and we get together every now and then at events like Insight, and we also bring them to Sunnyvale where they are given some information about what's coming up with our strategy. >> And this is a small group of about maybe 30 people. Paul how long have you been part of the A-Team, and what has that, what you have learned from some of the other folks that are on that team? >> It's a great question, I've been a part of the team for three years, and it's kind of a symbiotic relationship almost in that it kind of works both ways. I think there's lots of value for NetApp in the partnership, in that they get to hear kind of from channel partners on the street, about what people actually think of their technology. It also works in that we get to see quite a lot of pre-release information, and it gives us the opportunity to feed back to NetApp directly from the things that we see out in the channel about what customers actually want, and then we can feed that back into NetApp, and we've seen over kind of the five years of the team, we've seen product strategies change, we've seen new products come to market, because of that direct feedback. And then from our side, when we talk to our customers, there's real value in being able to say that we've got that direct relationship with NetApp, we've got that access to their executives, and access to their research team. It works really well both ways for us. >> In the keynote this morning, we heard George Kurian talk about digital transformation, and one of those pieces is that hybrid multi cloud is the defacto IT architecture, Paul I would love to get your feedback as a channel partner, what this kind of hybrid multi cloud means to your customers, means to your business. >> So I think the idea of hybrid I think, it's different for a lot of people, so in lots of cases, hybrid for some organizations may be that their entire data center remains on prem within their own walls, however they might be using a software service, an Office 365, they may be using a Dropbox, and I don't think kind of the definition that George was talking about this morning when he talked about hybrid cloud. My little take on what George talked about as well with hybrid cloud , I think he's understanding that it exists, understand that public cloud is a thing, that the Azures, that the AWSs, the Googles, play a part in a way that some organizations are working. That's not necessarily the way your organization wants to work, so understanding that it's there, designing an architecture that recognizes that, and makes sure that if you ever want to use those kind of services in the future, that you'll be able to do so, but it's equally valid to say, actually, public cloud isn't for us. As long as you make that as a decision, and don't just fall into it because you've not really thought about it, that's a perfectly valid strategy. >> I really agree with what you were saying. So often when we talk about hybrid and multi-cloud, we're talking about infrastructure. >> Paul: Yep. >> And there's more than just infrastructure, a thing that I've been saying for a few years, let's follow the applications, and even more importantly, let's follow the data. I love we get some international viewpoints here because sometimes North America, it's like oh let's talk only about public cloud and seems to be kind of a monolithic thing. Phoebe, I would love to get your viewpoint, what are you hearing from customers when they talk about cloud, what does that mean for them, and how's NetApp and NetApp's channel partners helping them sort through this new future? >> Definitely, our customers and our channel partners are talking a lot about cloud, creating, adding agility to their business, allowing them to move faster, and to be more flexible, and what NetApp is looking to do is really enable that and speed that up for, no matter where you are in the globe, whether you're in Australia, or in America, or in Europe, that you can achieve those business outcomes that you really want, and we know that the cloud is going to help us get there, so we really want to help them use the data the best ways, and use the technology that makes sense for the business to be able to get to public cloud. >> How are you hearing, a lot of the messaging coming out, NetApp is data driven, it's the data authority, lot of transformation that NetApp's undergone in its 26 year history, I'd love to get your both of your perspectives before we wrap here about how are customers embracing that as looking to NetApp and its ecosystem partners to help them embrace this hybrid multi-cloud environment in which they live, and look at NetApp as part of their core cloud strategy, rather than data management storage? >> I'm actually really excited about this because I love collaborating and talking our customers and our partners, and what I find is that they're coming to us and saying, "Wow, we didn't know you guys did that, and "you're not even, you're not selling us something, you're "really helping us get there." We're having a conversation about how we can really get there, get to their business outcomes, rather than trying to push a product, where I find that we get to have really collaborative conversations, Paul? >> Actually, I couldn't agree more, I think that what data fabric, what this kind of hybrid cloud model means to our customers, is it opens up a much wider conversation. We're not having a conversation about storage, we're not talking to a partner saying, would you like to buy some NetApp, as a customer, because that can be, that's a yes no, I use something else, I'm not interested in NetApp or I'd love to buy some NetApp. Actually, if we can have a data conversation that talks about how do you want to use this, what are the business outcomes that you'd like to achieve, what is it you are trying to do as a business, let's help data be part of that transformation. >> Guys, thanks so much for stopping by having a quick convo, especially Phoebe since you've been in Vegas for four days already, and your voice is hanging on by a thread. Paul, Phoebe, thanks so much for your time. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome, pleasure, thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE, from Las Vegas NetApp Insight 2018, I'm Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman, Stu and I will be right back with our next guest after a short break. (electronic music)

>> Live from New York, it's theCUBE, covering theCUBE, New York City, 2018. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> And welcome to theCUBE here in New York City. We're live from CUBE NYC, this is our big data now: AI, now all things cloud 9 years covering the beginning of Hadoop. Now into cloud and data as the center of the value I'm John Furrier with David Vellante. Our special guest is Rob Bearden, CEO of Hortonworks CUBE alumni, been on many times Great supporter of theCUBE, legend in OpenSource Great to see you. >> It's great to be here, thanks. Yes, absolutely. >> So one of the things I wanted to talk to you about is that OpenSource certainly has been a big part of the Ethos, just seeing it in all sectors, again, growing even in Blockchain, Open Ethos is growing. The role of data now certainly in the center. You guys have been on this vision of open data, if you will and making data, and move and flight, maybe rest all these things are going on. Certainly the Hadoop world has changed, not just Hadoop and data lakes anymore, it's data. All things data, it's happening. This is core to your business, you guys have been banging this drum for a long time. Stock's at an all-time high. Congratulations on the business performance. So it's working, things are working for you guys. >> I think the model in this strategy are really coming together nicely. And to your point, it's about all the data. It's about the entire life-cycle of the data and bringing all data under management through its entire life-cycle. And being able to give the enterprise that accessibility to that data across each tier on-prem, private cloud, and across all the multi-clouds. And that's really changed, really in many regards, the overall core architecture of Hadoop and how it needs to manage data. And how it needs to interact with other data sources. And our model and strategy is been about not going above the Hadoop stack, but actually going out to the edge, and bringing data under management from the point of origination through its entire movement life-cycle until it comes at rest, and then have the ability, to deploy and access that data across each tier and across a multi-cloud environment. And it's a hybrid architecture world now. >> You guys have been on this trend for a while now, it's kind of getting lift obviously you're seeing the impact that cloud, impact AI cause the faster computer you have, the faster you can process data, the faster the data can be used, machine learning it's a nice flywheel. So again, that flywheel is being recognized. So I have to ask you, what is in your opinion, been the impact of cloud computing, specifically the Amazons, and the Azures, and now Google where certainly AI is in the center of their proposition, now hybrid cloud is validated with Amazon announcing RDS on the premises on VMWARE. That's the first Amazon ever, ever on premises activity. So this is clearly a validation of hybrid cloud. How has the cloud impacted the data space, and if you will, it used to be data warehousing, cloud has changed that. What's your opinion? >> Well what's it's done is given a, an architectural extension to the enterprise of what their data architecture needs to be, and the real key is, it's now, it's not about hybrid or cloud or on-prem, it's about having a data strategy overall. And how do I bring all my different assets, and bring a connected community together, in real-time? because what enterprise is trying to do is, connect and have higher velocity and faster visibility between the enterprise, the product, their customer, and their supply chain. And to do that, they need to be able to aggregate data into the best economic platform from the point of origination, maybe starting from the component on their product, a single component, and be able to bring all that data together through its life-cycle, aggregate it, and then deploy it on the most economically feasible tier. Whether that's on-prem, or a private cloud, or across multiple public clouds. And our platform with HDF, HDP, and data plane and complete that hybrid data architecture. And by doing that, the real value is then the cloud, AI and machine learning capabilities have the ability now to access all data across the enterprise, whether it be their tier in the cloud, or whether that be on-prem. And our strategy is around bringing that and being that fabric, to bring all the interconnectivity irrespective of whether it sits on the edge and the cloud is somewhere in between. Because the more accessibility AI has to data, the faster velocity of driving value back in to that AI cycle. >> Yeah, people don't want to move data if they don't have to And so, and we've been on this for a while, that this idea that you want to bring the cloud model to your data, and not the data to the cloud always. And so, how do you do that? How do you make it this kind of same, same environment? What role does HortonWorks play in it? >> Well the first thing we want to do is, bring the data under management from and through its life-cycle where HDF goes to the edge, brings the data through its movement cycle, aggregates the streams. HDP is the data at rest platform that can sit on-prem and a public cloud or a private cloud. And then data plains that fabric, that ensures that we have connectivity to all types of data across all tiers. And then serves as the common security and governance framework, irrespective of which tier that is. And that's very very important. And then that then gives the AI platforms the ability to bring AI onto a broader array of data, that they can then have a higher and better impact on it than just having an isolated AI impact on just a single tier I data in the cloud. >> Well that messages seems to be resonating, we talked earlier about the stock price, but also I think Neil Bushery and Frank Sluben popularized the metric of number of seven-figure deals. You guys are closing some big deals, and remember in the early days Robert Vor Breath, people are like how these guys going to sell anything, it's all open-source and you're doing a lot of a million plus dollar deals. So it's resonating not only with the streep but also with enterprises, your thoughts. >> Last quarter we, I think the key is that the industry really understands, the investors understand, the enterprises really now understand the importance of hybrid and hybrid cloud. And it's not going to be all about managing data lakes on-prem. All the data's not going to go and have this giant line of demarkation and now all reside in the cloud. It has to coexist across each tier and our role is to be that aggregation point. >> And you've seen the big cloud players now, all it's the big three, all have on-prem strategies. Azure with Azure Stack, Google we saw Kubernetes on-prem, and even AWS now, the last load up putting RDS on-prem announced that VMWorld. So they've all sort of recognized that not everything's going to go into the cloud. So that's got to be, you know good confirmation for you guys >> It's great validation. What is also says though is, we must have cloud first architecture and a cloud first approach with all of our tech. And the key to that is, from our standpoint, within our strategy is to containerize everything. And we had an announcement earlier this week that was really a three-way announcement between us, Red Hat, and IBM; and the essence of that announcement is we've adopted the Kubernetes distro from Red Hat. To where we're are containerizing all of our platforms with Red Hat's Kubernetes distribution. And what that does, is gives us the ability to optimize our platforms for OpenShift, the Red Hat pass, and optimize then the deployment of that and the IBM private cloud, right. And naturally data plane will also then give us the ability, to extend those workloads; those very granular workloads up in to the public clouds, and we can even leverage their native objects stores. >> So that's an interesting love triangle right? You and Red Hat are kind of birds of a feather with open-source. IBM has always been a big proponent of open-source, you know funded Linux in the early days. And then brings this, a massive channel and brand, you know to that world. >> Yes. And you know this is really going to accelerate our movement into a cloud first architecture, with pure containerization. And the reason that's so important is, it gives us that modularity to move those applications and those workloads, across whichever tiers most appropriate architecturally for it to run and be deployed. >> You know we said this on theCUBE many many years ago, and continues to be this theme, enterprise is one really wanting hardened solutions, but they don't mind experimenting. And Stu Miniman and I, were always talking about and comparing OpenStack ecosystem to what's happened in the Hadoop ecosystem. There's some pockets of relevance and it's a lot of work to build your own, and OpenStack has a great solution for certain use cases, now mostly on the infrastructure side But when cloud came in and changed the game, because you saw things like Kubernetes. I mean we're here at the Hadoop show that started with Hadoop, now it's AI, the word Kubernetes is being talked about. You mentioned hybrid cloud, these aren't words that were spoken at an event like this. So the IT problem in multi-cloud has always been a storage issue. So you do some storage work, you got to store the data somewhere, but now you're talking about Kubernetes. You're talking about orchestration around workloads, the role of data in workloads. This is what enterprise IT actually cares about right now. This is not like, a small little thing, it's a big deal because data is not only in the workloads, they're using instrumentation with containers, with service meshes around the coin. You're starting to see policy, this is hardcore B2B enterprise features. >> This is where with what we're seeing is a massive transformational shift of how the IT architecture's going to look for the next 20 years. Right. The IT world it is been horribly constrained from this very highly configured, very procedural-based applications and now they want to create high velocity engagement between the enterprise, their product, their customer and supply chain. They were so constrained with these very procedural-based applications and containerization gives the ability now to create that velocity and to move those workloads, and those interactions between that four pillars. >> Now let's talk about the edge. Cause the pendulum is clearly swinging sort of back to some decentralization going on, and the edge to us is a data play. We talk about it all the time. What are your thoughts on the edge, where does HortonWorks fit? What's your vision of the data modeling and how that evolves? >> That goes back to, the insight to that would be our strategy and what we did and had the great fortune, quite frankly, of having the ability to merge on Yara and HortonWorks back in 2015. And we wanted, and the whole goal of that besides working with a great team, Joe Witt had built, is being able to get to the edge. And what we wanted to have the ability to do, was to operate on every sensor, on every device at the edge for the customer so that they could bring the data under management whenever that may be, through its entire life-cycle; so from point of origination through its movement until it comes at rest. So our belief is that if we can bring enough intelligence and faster insights as that data is being generated, and as events or conditions are happening, moving, or changing before it ever comes to rest we can process and take prescriptive action. Leveraging AI and machine learning as it's in its life-cycle we can dramatically decrease the amount of data we have to bring to rest. We can just bring the province the metadata to rest and have that insight. And we try to get to these high velocity, real-time insights starting with the data on the edge. And that's why we think it's so important to manage the entire life-cycle. And then, what's even more important is then put that data, on to what ever tier. That may be bring it back to rest in a day like on-prem, right, to aggregate with other like data structures. Or it may be, take it into cold storage on a native object store in a cloud, that has the lowest cost of storage structure for a particular time. >> Or take an action on the edge and leave it there. >> Yeah. You guys definitely think about the edge in a big way, that's pretty obvious. But what I want to get your thoughts on is an emerging area we're watching, and I'll call it for lack of a better description, programmable data. And you mentioned data architecture is being setup probably set a 10, 20 year run for enterprises they setup their data architecture with the cloud architects. Making data programmable is kind of a dev-ops concept right. And this is something that you guys have thought about with the data plane, what's your reaction to this notion of making data programmable? When you start talking about Kubernetes, you're going to have statefull applications, stateless applications, you have new dynamics I call it API 2.0 happening. Whole new infrastructure happening, data has to be programmable, going to need policy around it, the role of data's certainly changing rather than storing it somewhere. What's your view of programmable data, making it programmable? >> Well you've got to be able to, to truly have programmable data, you can't have slices of accessibility or window. You have to understand the lineage of that entire data, and the context of that data through its entire life-cycle. That's step and point number one. Point number two is, you have to be able to have that containerized so that you can take the module of data that you want to take prescriptive action against, or create action against a condition. And to be able to do that in granular bites or chunks, right. And then you've got to have accessibility to all the other contextual data, which means whether that's as its in motion as its at rest or, as its contextual cousin if you will, that sits up in an object store on another tier in a public cloud. Right. But what's important is that you have to be able to control and understand the entire lineage of that. And therefore, that's where our second step in this is data plane. And having the ability to have a full security model through that entire architectural chain, as well as the entire governance and lineage leveraging, leveraging atlas through data plane. And that then gives you the ability to take these very prescriptive actions that are driven through AI and machine learning insights. >> And that makes you very agile, love it. I mean the ethos of open-source and dev-ops is literally being applied to every thing. We see it with at the network layer, you see it at the data layer, you're starting to see this concept of dev and ops being applied in a big way. >> The next you know, previous years we've talked about what we're trying to accomplish. And we've started HortonWorks, it was about changing the data architecture for the next 20 years and how data was going to be managed. And that's had, to your earlier point we opened up the show, that's had twists and turns. Hadoop's evolved, the nature and velocity of data has evolved in the last five, six, seven, eight years you know. It's about going to the edge, it's about leveraging the cloud and we're very excited about where we're positioned as this massive transformation's happening. And what we're seeing is the iteration of change, is happening at an incredibly fast pace. Even much more so than it was two, three years ago. >> Yeah, the clock speeds definitely up, their data is working. People putting it to work. What works... >> They're able to get more value faster because of it. >> The AI is great. >> The data economy is here and now. And the enterprise understands it. So they want to now move aggressively to change and transform their business model to take advantage of what their data is giving them the ability to do. >> That's great. They always want the value, and they want it fast and anything gets in the way they'll remove the blockers as what we say. >> Alright, it's theCUBE here Rob Bearden, CEO of Hortonworks giving his vision but also an update on the company; data at the center of the value proposition. This is about AI, it's about big data, it's about the cloud. It's theCUBE bringing you, theCUBE data here in New York City. CUBENYC, that's the hashtag; check us out on Twitter. Stay with us for a live coverage all day today and tomorrow here in New York City. We'll be right back after this short break. (upbeat music)

(intense orchestral music) >> Hello and welcome to this special VMworld preview, I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE, here in the Silicon Valley, Palo Alto offices for theCUBE. I'm here with Peter Burris, head of research at SiliconANGLE media and Wikibon team. We're hear kickin' off, what we're going to talk about at VMworld, what we expect to see at the event in Las Vegas; and what are some of the highlights from the news, what's going to be discussed. Peter, great to see you. >> Great to be here John. >> I know you've been workin' hard, we're going to talk about this new true private cloud report that you put out, very comprehensive, a lot to go through, so, we're going to digest that, we're going to unpack that. But first, we're going to have theCUBE there for you know three days. >> Two sets right? >> Two sets. So, second year in a row we have two sets at VMworld. 72 thought leaders and interviews in the middle of the hang space, if you're going to to to VMworld, go to the hang space and look for us, come say hello there's some little cough areas to hang out. Come visit us, say hello, check in if you're an influencer, we're going to come preview some new technology we're going to show there, so, don't forget to ask about that, take a look at the video or the variety of tools we have with theCUBE Digital Tooling and Video Services. But, most notably, there's going to be a lot of headline news, Andy Jassy's going to be giving a keynote, we've got that confirmed on Twitter; and a lot of discussion around the future of the data center, future of IT, certainly of how cloud and on-premises are going to intersect. This is has been a groundbreaking report from Wikibon for the third year of the true private cloud report. So let's unpack that, because I think this is a notable backdrop to VMworld is that as everyone's been saying hybrid cloud, now multi cloud, essentially the same thing. The cloud is a great resource, on-premises (laughs) is not going away. It used to be aspirational to have this notion of having cloud operations. Your report is now definitively saying it's no longer aspirational, it's actually happening. So take a minute to explain the report in it's third year some of the key findings. >> Well the, we might want to, we want to step back a little bit and say what's goin' on with VMware? Because VMware's progress and both what it's enabling, and what constraints it still faces, are going to have a lot to do with what happens in the report. But speaking about the report specifically, True private cloud was a concept that David Floyer, Stu Miniman, kind of devised a number of years ago, and the simple observation is that ultimately a lot of hardware vendors, a lot of system vendors, were just taking the word cloud and slapping it on their hardware and saying oh here's our replacement strategy, does it have anything to do with cloud? Well, kind of, yeah, but not really. And their observation was increasingly, customers are going to want that cloud experience and the basic notion of true private cloud, and what all of our research shows, is that inevitably what's going to happen is the customer's not going to move their data to the public cloud en mass; there's going to be certainly some important elements that are going to there, it's no question about that, but then increasingly they're going to try to bring cloud, the cloud operating model, the cloud experience, down to where the data resides; and that's going to be at the edge, and that's going to be at what others call the core, on-premises. And near premises, so, you know side-by-side with public cloud players in in a number of different hosting companies. So the very concept is the requirements or the attributes of the data are going to dictate where the workloads operate, and increasingly those, that's going to demand an on-premises capability that still satisfies the basic notions of cloud. >> Great, that's a great backdrop. Now let's talk about VMware, and let's, I have something that I want to talk about the direct cloud report, we'll get into that. VMware had two or three years ago, Pat Gelsinger was under the gun, you know with the pressure of the Dell merger looming, what the future is going to be in there. Since then the performance of VMware has been spectacular financially, he's really proud of that. Some new products pivoting, I want to get what you're hearing first, but what I'm hearing is and I want to give you something, give you a chance to respond, I want to get your reaction. VMware has seen some acceleration over the years around vSphere, around kind of good, stable, that haven't lost anything with vSphere, so, one of their core products, virtualization storage; but their large accounts are stable in the Fortune 500, losing some business maybe in the lower accounts, but as the AWS, Azures, and Google Cloud, cloud native players are growing, the emerging products are front and center for VMware. vSAN, NSX, obviously the driver which we'll want to double click on, and the vCHS, the VMware vCloud Hybrid Service. These are, specifically the vSAN getting momentum, and these emerging products, how important is that for VMware? Obviously their stability is IT footprint. But why is the cloud driving some of these new emerging behaviors? >> Look, every company wish they had the install base that VMware has, and that install base is predicated on VDI, or Video Desktop Integration, Virtual Desktop Integration. It's vSAN, which is the use of VMware as a basis for virtualizing storage, and obviously all the stuff that's associated with virtualizing hardware. You know, John, it's interesting, if you think about what made the cloud possible, certainly AWS took on the heavy duty the heavy lifting associated with actually creating a business, and it's obviously you know very successful, but it all started with the idea of virtualization, and the notion that you could in fact bring virtualization in on top of hardware sources and generate a lot of not only cost avoidance, but also increasing flexibilities; you can get better utilization but also increase your flexibility, and that's one of the things that made the cloud possible. And so if we think about the VMware install base, that's where it all starts. It's the ability to get greater utilization and greater flexibility on-premise, and now it's moving into the cloud. So we got three basic questions for for VMware that we're looking at. One, there's been a lot of chatter about the relationship between Dell EMC and VMware, and what does that mean? You know Dell EMC is carrying a pretty significant debt load these days, and, there is visibility in where it's going to go, but VMware, as a brand is worth an enormous amount of money. So how does Dell EMC better you know increasingly attach itself to VMware is an interesting question, and what does that mean for the ecosystem? >> Having perverse incentives possibly versus-- >> Possibly, possibly, but we want to get that, there has to be a constant promise from VMware that they're going to take care of the ecosystem first with Dell EMC as a big participant in that. So that's the first thing, especially these days with all the financial chatter. Second thing is, this AWS agreement is really really important, and a lot of people are questioning is it a one way street? Do you just, you know, sure we have virtualization in cloud, we got virtualization here, does it make it easy to bring stuff up to VMware? What happens once it, or up to AWS, what happens once workloads get up there? Is AWS going to try to you know facilitate a migration? That's still a very very challenging technical problem, but we'll see a lot more, Andy Jassy has the keynote as you said, about how that partnership is working and where it's actually going. Because there will be a requirement also to be able to take workloads out of AWS, and out of public clouds, and bring 'em down on-premise. >> Hence the two-way street that you're looking for. >> Got to be a two-way street. A simple example, we're going to see increasing, in the AI world, we're going to see more modeling occurring in cloud, more training occurring in cloud, and more inferencing learning out on the edge and the core. Well, we want to see, you know VMware certainly wants to see more of those workloads being virtualized. And that leads to the third question what's the VMware story with IOT, with the edge? That is very very unclear at this point in time, and there's a lot of work that's going to have to be required to put into. And so I think that those are the three things that we're really focusing on, and how does VMware answer those questions can have a lot to do with future architectures, future business models, and future partnerships. >> And it's important, I think the edge one is clearly obvious that the don't have much announced, but that have to put a stake in the ground at some point. >> Absolutely. And you know, the reality is, the edge has real-time, often is associated with real-time, high performance, every throughput, very lightweight execution. >> Uses the cloud, uses the data center. >> Uses the cloud, uses the cloud, uses you know servos computing is an example, containers, those things all don't require a virtualized machine. >> I want to get your reactions on something, I sent an email out to a bunch of buyers, of friends in the network of theCUBE alumni and our networks and I asked them a question, I said: what do you think about VMware's prospects going forward as a buyer of technology, as you're transforming your organization from the obvious on-premise operating model to hybrid? Which they're all doing pretty much, and are agreeing to it. So the aspirational aspect was confirmed, to your point. So they responded, (laughs) and they said look it, VMware remains largely flat across server, infrastructure, storage, and virtualization buying. >> In terms of growth? >> No, what they're buying and growth, growth, no they're not really paying much attention to that, they're saying it's pretty flat, we're not going anywhere it's not going down, it's not going up per se, in the core segments. They said the main thing is going to be the emerging technology so vSAN, NSX, and vCHS. Then I asked 'em I said: What do you like about VMware, what do you think they're strong in? They said: well, we like the fact that they got, that they have technology, okay, and if they can keep the technology lead we're interested, so that's a question also, I'll get that in a second, the relationships that they've had with VMware, the supplier relationships, rinse reset a feature of products, and then compatibility with their existing IT footprint. I then asked 'em what're you worried about? (laughs) And they said: well, if there's a discussion about replacing VMware, it's around price cost and technology lag. Your reaction to those two points? >> First point is, again, there's no question that VMware has a great install base of customers that are thinking about what it's going to mean, and I think the most important observation is that, and we'll learn more about how many enterprises really are starting to move their virtual machines up to AWS, for example, more than VMware next week. But I also think that it provides cover for you know a CIO or VP of infrastructure to say yeah I'm going to continue to invest here, and I'm going to, you know, have the option of moving to something else. And there will be a lot more options for what you do with a VMware virtual machine in the future. Regarding the question of whether it's flat or not, I think one of the reasons why that perception is there, is because the hardware business overall has been flat, and VMware is a derivative of play in the hardware business, so, at least until recently. In many respects now it's dragging some of it forward because VMware allows you to put off additional hardware purchases. So we'll see where that cycle ends up, we might be at the nadir of that cycle, but I certainly think that we're seeing-- >> It's mature for sure, I mean. >> It's mature. But it used to be that you'd buy new hardware and then you'd put VMware on top of it to virtualize it, so you could get more productivity out of it. But as hardware's slowed down, why would you buy more VMware? But I think what's happening now is people are thinking first in terms of buying VMware, and what workloads you need to put on there, how they want to set those workloads up, and then looking for hardware to do that, and increasingly looking through the cloud. The third thing I'd say is that look, the VMware cloud foundation, and NSX, are two incredibly important technologies. For example-- >> Well hold on before you go there, 'cause I want to drill down on this because, one of the things that I mentioned in there which is a key word is existing IT footprint; this is a reality, some call it legacy. Having an IT footprint with VMware is not going to get you in trouble because of the path of the cloud, 'cause you've got cloud native, things like Kubernetes down the road, but that footprint's the base foundation. So as NSX comes in, (laughs) and the cloud foundation, interesting new lever. How does those enabling components fit for the enterprise who's sittin' there sayin' I got an existing IT footprint, I got all these clouds on the horizon, why NSX, why is the vCloud foundation important? >> Yeah, so let's start with VCF, VCF provides, or is a, takes you maybe 75, 80% of the way there to that cloud experience on-premises; a VMware based cloud experience on-premises. So, it's a really nice bundling of technology, that provides a relatively simple way of deploying, configuring, maintaining, and ultimately retiring workloads. So, it's a nice package for a lot of enterprises that have that VMware experience. That's a different story from NSX, so, on the cloud foundation standpoint, if you need to demonstrate to your board and to your CXO, and to your line of business people, that you are not just have an option to go to the cloud, but you're actually bringing that experience more to the business, a lot of customers are kickin' the tires on VCF, and it's a good thing to do. NSX is a little bit different. NSX, if we think about the long term, there has always been a need to flatten networks in the enterprise. Having that network, and that network, and that network, and trying to inter-network them together through bridging and gateways, is extremely problematic, even at the network level. It requires-- >> In terms of sprawl and complexity, or both? >> In terms of complexity, in terms of the amount of processing, I mean the cost of doing address translation and takin' packets and re-formatting them for different workloads in the network; very, very difficult to do. Now, you add programmability atop of that, 'cause at the end of the day, cloud is effectively a network program model. Very, you know, hey, you got a big problem on your hands. Somebody at some point in time is going to make, is going to build a $50 billion company around the idea of inter-networking clouds. I don't know who it is. >> Cisco wants to do it. >> Cisco would like to do it, but Cisco, quite frankly, probablyyyy, you know they could have started this process five or six years ago, and they didn't get out there. VMware took some steps to do that. NSX is a pretty good candidate right now, if we're thinking about how we build inter-networked multi cloud environments. >> So, you used the example before you came on camera, that you have this segment that in the old world of network stacks SNA, DECnet, variety whether stacks had proprietary things and bridges happened, to your point, to your explanation. And then TCP/IP came up and flattened it, TCP/IP. >> Yeah, just flattened it all out, made 'em all go away. >> So clouds aren't networks, but they're cloud environments, same concept, but flattening 'em out. >> Well, they are networks, at the end of the day they really are networks. >> They're a network of machines. >> Yeah, they're a network of services, they're a network of machines. >> So, explain the flattening piece, is it, are we still in the early stages of that, are you seeing visibility? >> Very much so. >> What are some data points around this? >> So the, and you said earlier, that the multi cloud, hybrid cloud are really the same, well today they are. We might envision a day when they're not, here's why. Hybrid cloud is I got this cloud, I got that cloud, it's more of a where is the data located, how am I going to run those environments together. Multi cloud is I got multiple clouds that I have to inter-network, and I have to bring together. I want to run a job in one of the Oracle application clouds, that also touches some of the machine learning that you get out of Google Cloud, and increase and include some of the retail capabilities you get out of AWS. That is a very very realistic scenario, it's going to happen, people are doing that kind of stuff right now. >> And that's the preferred outcome people are looking for? >> That's the preferred outcome that people are lookin' for. Well, each of those different environments are going to have an economic incentive to say yeah, that's great do that, but bring more of the workload into my cloud, 'cause I'm going to create interfaces that are a little bit better at working together than you know you can get from the inter-networking side. Well, they'll still have to stay open, but you know some of those environments are going to be better at that than others; but at the end of the day you want no penalty whatsoever, other than latency and where the data's located from amongst these different services. And so eventually what we're going to want to do is we're going to see the inter-networking itself flatten, where're the jobs, how the jobs are set up: flattened. Make it easier to move data, and jobs or workloads out of one cloud and be able to put it in another, because of any number of different reasons. And so, that's-- >> Yeah, competitive advantage, different economics, different product features >> Regulatory regimes change, you know what happens if if in Germany they decide to do something else from other than GDPR, what's it going to mean? >> So is NSX going to be that connector, you kind of think? >> NSX-- >> Has the opportunity. >> Has the potential to be that kind of connector. So an enterprise that's looking at how they can increase their set of options, their flexibility, their ability to bring networking closer to workload. NSX is as good of, that I know about, that we know about, as good an option out there as any. >> I want to ask you before we move onto the true private cloud versus private cloud and that whole report you did to private cloud in the third year. We're seeing a trend around the operating side, the personas are developing Google Cloud Next conference, the notion of an SRE, you know sight reliability engineer. Public cloud has always been known as developer friendly, very developer oriented, cloud native, all the developers love containers, Kubernetes, Istio, and a lot of cool services are coming out. But now with VMware, they kind of own the IT footprint from an operating model, operating the networks. The bridging of those two worlds are kind of coming together, right now we don't see a lot of cross over yet between pure cloud native developers in VMware ecosystem. Your thought on that connection to those personas, how it relates to how the ecosystem's rolling out, your thoughts? >> Yeah, you know John, I think that's going to be the big challenge for the next couple of years, literally, in the next couple of years. That ultimately, developers love the public cloud because they can avoid operations of people. Increasingly the public cloud players are going to have to provide platforms. And you know everybody talks about I, you know infrastructure as a service versus pass as a service, or platform as a service. But when, in Amazon, Google, Azure, Oracle, IBM Software, all of these guys are going to have to add capabilities that are that much more intriguing and interesting to developers. Bringing the enterprise developer into this ecosystem is the next big round of competition, 'cause those people aren't going to go away, they're too important to the future of business. And, to the degree that VMware can provide, and I think this is the best that they can do, a neutral platform for those guys as opposed to starting to introduce you know machine learning services on VMware or or, you know, anything beyond some of the platform stuff that Dell EMC has Pivotal, and what not, on VMware. Yeah, we can expect to see greater integration for that, but I think ultimately what VMware needs to be is a phenomenal target for stuff that's written over here, that needs to run over there, and have it run on VMware, I think that's ultimately what's going to happen. >> Alright Peter, great stuff, now let's talk about the true private cloud report, 'cause I think VMworld is always a beacon, always a bellwether for what's going on in IT, with respect to on-premises private cloud, or true private cloud, or hybrid cloud, IBM as well, and some others, they're always a leader in engineering. Before we get into the report, first describe the difference between what true private cloud is and what people have called private cloud. Because the term private cloud's been kicked around, going back I think 2012 I first heard-- >> Oh, private cloud, I first heard the term private cloud in probably 2005, 2006. >> But you guys have nailed this definition called true private cloud. What does it mean, what's the difference? >> So, the idea is, the cloud experience wherever the data requires it, and increasingly data is going to require it at the edge, in the core, in the data center, you know, local to the business; because of latency issues, because of cost of bandwidth issues, because of regulatory issues, because of IP control issues, any number of other issues, there's going to be an increasing distribution of data; workloads are going to follow that distribution of data, and the systems have to be there to run it. But we want to have a common vision of how those workloads are operated, and a common model for how we pay to run those workloads. So when you think about true private cloud, it's basically, we want the cloud experience, which includes, you know simplicity, the one throat to choke, the regular and non-invasive upgrades and enhancements to software; we want to add to it, kind of the management interfaces that we're associating with the cloud, but also the pay as you go, and the flexibility to scale up and the greater plasticity to be able to add services. We want all of that, but in a footprint on premise. >> And that's for true private cloud? >> And that's what we mean by true private cloud. Now if you go back a few years, companies would you know, you'd get a hardware company that'd say oh look, cloud is Linux plus some manned control interfaces, no problem, we can put that directly into our operating system or have a management interface on our platform, now we can go on cloud. >> And put it in your data center. >> And put it in your data center. But you still paid for everything up front, you have to deal with software patches and upgrades, because it's software that's installed. >> So it's an operating model, how you're consuming technology, how you're buying it. >> Operating model, how you consume the technology, and the flexibility, and the future of the modern application approach, which is services oriented, and networks and data. >> And so one of the findings obviously, you're pretty strong on this sayin' this is no long aspirational, it's realistic. What does the report show, what're the numbers, how did you break down the report? >> Sure. >> What are the categories, and what are some of the data? >> So the aspirational notion was that we kept talking about true private cloud, but, the hardware vendors were slow to actually deliver on it, especially on that service oriented approach as opposed to a product oriented approach. By that I mean product approach is, you buy it all upfront, and it's caviat after I'm a consumer, service oriented approach is you know we have enough belief in what we're selling that you're only paying for the services you consume, which is what AWS and Azure and others do. So we're seeing that actually happen. That's number one. You take a loot at what HPE's with a technology called GreenLake. IBM is advancing it's cause with software. Dell EMC is doing some interesting things with both VMware but also some related types of technologies. All of that is happening right now, so the server companies, or traditional server companies, are introducing true and honest to goodness capabilities that mimic the cloud, so that's happening. The second thing that's happening is you know the AWSs the Google Clouds, and the big hyper scalers, are also starting to introduce technology that allows at least elements of their platform to run on-premise. The big holdover was AWS, but now, through snowballs, through their their kind of ranked box, data box, you can now put a fair amount of processing on there, and a fair amount of AWS stuff, and you can actually run workloads down on this box. So it extends the AWS platform out to locations in a very novel way. So we're seeing on the one hand the server companies truly will introduce technology and services that actually do a better job of mimicking the cloud. We're seeing the cloud players come up with technologies that allow them to extend their footprint, their cloud presence, down to where data needs to reside, and that's where everybody's goin' right now, everybody's goin for that spot in the marketplace. >> So, you have categories here, on-premise-- >> We have on-premise, which is kind of the traditional true private cloud, and the leaders from a hardware packaging standpoint are Dell EMC, HPE are two of the big leaders. Then we have-- >> Cisco's right behind them. >> Cisco's right behind 'em. We've got what we call the near-premise, or the host of true private cloud, and this is where you have AWS right next to your private cloud box so that they can communicate really fast, or it's hosted. IBM is very big here, but there is a number of other players-- >> IBM's got a sizable lead, it's 12% by your numbers, and Rackspace coming second and four-- >> Rackspace is good. And then you've got some very interesting and very important smaller players, like Expedient for example. And then-- >> So there's two main categories, there's hosted, >> Correct. >> And then on-premise. >> On-premise. >> And then there's another category >> So near premise, and on-premise. >> Near premise and on-premise or hosted. >> And there's the ecosystem side, there's a software that's actually utilized to do this, this is where VMware excels in. >> Explain what the ecosystem, so you called true private cloud ecosystem pull through shares, what is that? >> So, we have, so, VMware as we've been talking about, is one of those technologies that allows one to devise a true private cloud platform. Increasingly that's what they're doing, with some of the technologies that we're talking about. And so ultimately they are putting the software out to customers and customers are defaulting to that software, as their approach to building that true private cloud, and then pulling hardware through as a second decision. So the first decision is I'm going to build my cloud, my private cloud, my true private cloud with VMware, and I'll find hardware that doesn't get in the way. >> So it's leaders who are pulling hardware sales. >> It's the software leaders that are putting the software for building true private clouds out there, and then through partnerships dragging hardware in. >> And so there, they're there and everyone wants to talk to them. So that's VMware (laughs) 24% >> That's VMware, Nutanix is moving along. >> HPE, Microsoft, IBM. >> HPE's in there. >> Interesting, that's awesome. And any other findings that you've found, in terms of growth? Number sizes I think this year you had 21 billion roughly 2017. >> Yeah, it's just over 20, it's 20.3 billion, it's going to go to, you know over 260 billion in 10 years, it's going to be bigger than the infrastructure as a service marketplace, it is the true private cloud segment, the on-premise segment for the first time exceeded the size of the near premise segment as the software matures, as you figure out how to make these business models go. But this is going to be, you know Diane Greene said something very very interesting at Google Next. And she said look, nobody really understands how this business is going to work in 10 years, and she's right. Some companies clearly have a better understanding than others. >> So do you think your numbers are short or over? >> I think-- >> But that implies you know. (laughs) >> Well no, I don't know if it's short or over, but let me give you an example. That our numbers presume a relatively constant approach in thinking about how we price and how we generate exchange for this stuff. But how fast the cloud operating model, that pay as you go moves into the true private space, is going to have an enormous implication on what those revenues look like. The degree to which companies demand a three year commitment like Salesforce is starting to do with SaaS. It's going to have an enormous implication on how those revenues actually get realized. >> Well, we've debated this, you and I have debated this before with Dave as well, Dave this it's a trillion, Dave Vellante, so, you know I think you're sure, I think you took a conservative approach, and you know just my personal observation. >> Well we think the overall cloud market's going to be, if we add SaaS in there, it's going to be 260 to 300, probably a total of 700 billion, something like that, and so it's pretty sizable. So we're just talking about that on-premise true private cloud. >> Yeah, the true private cloud you know, $250 billion by 2027. Okay, so I got to ask you a question, since, I like that Diane Greene quote by the way, just kidding you about the forecast numbers, but, I think she's right. So I got to ask you, what is your observation around what this report says vis-a-vis the buyer market out there who are squinting through the fud, and, all these rankings around who's got the most market share. We hear, you know there was a post on Forbes from my friend Bob Evans that said: oh, Microsoft's number one in cloud! So, how you define cloud is a function of how you define cloud. Someone defines it by bundling an office and apps and, eventually, the level of granularity is going to have to be at least segmented a bit. How do you view how customers should keep a score card for market share, leadership, and besides customers, and number of services, I mean is there an approach that anything coming out of this data you would see and saying maybe the market might want to be sized this way, maybe we should be thinking about not so much market share numbers on some graph on some analyst firm. Is there any thoughts on that? Because it's a big thing, and true private cloud's just one sector. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You've got SaaS, and you've got PaaS, and you've got-- >> So I think John, there've been at least, you know we could probably say there're more, but just making it up off the top of my head, there have been at least three eras that users focused on. Era number one is the hardware as the asset, how do we get the most out of our hardware. That dominated probably until the late '80s or so. And then it became the application as the asset, and then we bought into the application, and we bought hardware and all the other stuff underneath that application, and that was pretty much the 2000's, up until maybe 2010. And now we're thinking of data as the asset, and what does that mean? What it means is that ultimately, I think that the way that, we think that the way that architecture is going to be thought of, is not on application architecture, but around data architecture; I don't mean data architecture like a DBA, I mean what is your brand promise, what, what activities do you have to deliver that brand promise, what data and services do you need to perform those activities. Get that data in as close as you possibly can to those activities, wherever they have to be performed, so that you can perform them predictably, reliably, at the lowest cost, and in the greatest, shortest period of time. So I would start with the idea, you know what I'm going to focus on where my data's going to be located to run my business, that's where I would focus. The second thing, as I think when we think about market shares, and we think about a lot of these other questions, it's okay which, this is a transformative period of time, which of these companies is going to be most likely to deliver a product now, but also create better options for how I do stuff in the future; and we like to talk to our clients about the idea of buy the stuff that provides the best portfolio of options on future data value. And so, data today, and helping think about architecture, work with companies that are demonstrating that they're going to be able to create the options that you need in the future, 'cause this is going to change a lot over the next five, six, eight years. And so, you want to work with companies that are demonstrating that they're able to create new technology, through IP, through things like opensource, >> Okay so the question is-- >> Are sharing it appropriately too. >> So, who's number one? Again, I don't think this is going to be one score, I think it's going to be level of services, how many services you're using. There was one angle I wanted to do, but I can't, I'm still having a hard time. But I guess I'll ask ya, to put ya on the spot. If I'm a customer, Peter, who's the number one in cloud, gimme the top three players. >> AWS, Azure, Google. >> Okay, (claps once) there ya go. (laughs) The top three clouds. Well we're going to keep an eye on it-- >> Let's go to four though, so AWS, Azure, Google, and then again, from that true private cloud-- >> IBM. >> Because that's a, no, no, it's got to be Vmware; because that's, that's where the pull through is right now, right. But when you think about it, the big question is is AWS and Google Cloud going to come down to the edge, and down to the true private cloud as fast as some of these other cloud players are going to go up to the bigger cloud? If I were to pick the one that's most likely to win, it's located somewhere near ribbon. So Microsoft or... In Seattle area AWS. Again, again, it's so early, I think if people, going to have to figure out what to do, that's going to determine the winners and losers. Certainly a true private cloud report, great report. Check out the true private cloud report from Wikibon.com, go to wikibon.com and check it out, preview for VMworld. I'm John Furrier with Peter Burris, a lot of exciting news, two large sets, 72 interviews, three days, come visit theCUBE team, we got to full team down there, we're going to have a lot of our team down there lookin' to talk to you. Join our community, join our network, we're going to have a lot of fun, and also learn a lot at VMworld, talk to some really smart people. Thanks for watching. (intense orchestral music)

(light techno music) >> Announcer: Live from Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube. Covering ZertoCon 2018. Brought to you by Zerto. >> This is The Cube. We're at ZeratoCon 2018, Hines Convention Center in Boston. My name's Paul Gillin. My guest is John White, the VP of Product Strategy at Expedient. Why don't you start off by giving us just the elevator pitch on what Expedient is all about. >> Sure, Expedient is a cloud-service provider as well as managed service provider, and we also have data centers that we operate here mainly on the east coast. We have seven cities and 11 data centers. Those are in Boston here, locally as well as Baltimore, Maryland, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis, and Memphis, Tennessee. And then we actually, we'll put our private cloud services really anywhere. So we actually will put 'em on the customer's premises to meet that need as well as in partner data centers anywhere over the world, if they have to deal with compliance, security, whatever it might be, we'll go and tackle those problems for them. So our goal is to be an infrastructure as a service provider for, you know, really all the enterprise. >> So, when would a company do business with you verses a Microsoft or an Amazon? >> Yeah, so, if you kind of look at really three ways to kind of go cloud, right? You can still do it yourself. You can build some cloud-based services. And that's, again, you're in it on your own. You can go all the way to the extreme, which is the AWS or the Azures, and that's more, again, you're kind of in a do-it-yourself type of mentality. And your support structure there is a little bit different. It's maybe a little bit more mechanical, a little bit more robotical. If you need help in transitioning and figuring out where your workload should sit, and maybe creating more of a hybrid cloud so it's maybe on your premises, it's inside one of our data centers, and then maybe it's even in one of those AWS or Azures. You're going to work with a company like Expedient to go and help you figure out where you should put your workloads, first off. And then how to create that long-term strategy so you get the best of all worlds that are out there, not just one prescriptive cloud. >> So, you're kind of a high-touch cloud provider then. >> Very, very high touch, yeah. Our whole product service is actually a la carte menus. So you pick and choose what you want. We can manage servers, we can provide virtual infrastructure, we can do things like DR as a service, backups as a service, all those pieces. So you build, basically, your perfect IT strategy with us. And then direct connects into AWS and Azure and some other cool products coming soon to kind of make your life a little bit easier, consuming and running your work loads in public clouds. >> Well we hear a lot these days about multi-cloud, about customers wanting to shift their work load seamlessly around between multiple back-end cloud providers. Certainly vendors talk about that a lot. Do you hear customers talking about it? >> Yeah, we have some customers starting to talk about it. And, you know, in the beginning, they just wanted to see, okay, I'm running workloads in AWS, I'm running workloads in Expedient, I'm multi-cloud. And then they start to understand. well, our management's really hard. And the network's really hard, and the security's really hard. And we're doing backups another way than we've done it traditionally. And we're helping customers bridge that gap and saying, we can take some of the security policies that we've been running internally in our data center, and maybe you've been doing inside your data center, and take those out into the public cloud. Simplifying things with networking. We're a pretty big VM or NXS shop. So doing something where you can create tagging and policies local inside the Expedient data center, and then being able to translate those up into AWS and Azure, to make it, basically, one seamless network, is really, really big and key for our customers. It's something that I think is still new. We have a handful of customers that we're working on a lot of cool research projects on. But I think it's going to be something that's going to be the dominant force here in the next few years. >> You mention disaster recovery as a service. Now is that where Zerto fits into your plan? >> Correct, yeah. We've been working with Zerto for quite some time now really since they were just comin' to Boston. And we worked and spent a ton of time with them getting them to understand the needs of service providers, 'cause they were traditionally enterprise focused. And that partnership that we've built over the years has done tremendous value for not only our customers but our businesses. And we've actually had two year-over-year growth for the last three years with them. And actually, we just won the Service Partner Growth Partner of the Year Award with them. So we're creating some pretty cool solutions around DR as a service, and taking some of our network background and actually simplifying DR for our customers that way. So, we use Zerto as well as VM Ware, and some of our own product connectivity, NSX, to actually simplify the package of DR to get the recovery time objective down into 10, 15 minutes, instead of four hours or eight hours or multiple days that really most people are experiencing right now. >> So when you look at the landscape, there are a lot of disaster recovery solution providers you could've worked with. What does Zerto do that's really different? >> The part, well, on a technology wise, watching them take a look at the change block that's occurring that's out of the VM1 environment, making an agnostic from a storage layer, that was really big for us in the beginning on the technical tip-in. And then the partnership, as of late, really since the beginning, was the big value differentiator that we just couldn't find in other companies that're out there. We locked arms with their product management team and their product strategy team right away. We gave them literally two sheets of paper and said these are the things we need to be successful as a service provider using your software. They went down, checked 'em all off. We started goin' at it, and we started then growing that year-over-year for the last three years. So, it's been an amazing partnership. They have a strategic team that understands where the marketing industry's going. And we're going to use them, and leverage them, as much as we possibly can to help out our customers, give 'em the best outcomes they can possibly get. >> When your customers talk to you about backup, where do you see them going? Where is that market headed? >> So backup, traditional backup is something we've been doin' for quite some time. We do petabytes of backups every year for customers. Still using tape, believe it or not, as well. We have a lot of discs-- >> Tape will never die. >> Tape is still out there. I actually have a bumper sticker that I think EMC made when they bought Avamar saying Tape is Dead. And I don't think it's going to die anytime soon. >> Mainframe was dead, too. >> Yeah, right, mainframe has been dead and we still roll new ones into our data centers on a regular basis and then put cloud beside it. But on the backup side of it, if you look at some of the new disasters, right? Look at Atlanta. Their disaster was different. It wasn't a natural disaster, it was a-- >> Radsomeware attack. >> Ransomeware attack. Right, that's a new disaster. We're going to find new disasters, and you can't go and restore back from 24 hours ago and think that that's good. We don't live in that world anymore. It needs to be from five minutes, seven minutes, 30 minutes, whatever it might be. So, we use their journaling today to actually get those quick recoveries. And if they can extend that out, I think it's going to be pretty powerful for customers to say, okay, I want to go back to two years, three days, and six hours from now. And say, gimme that point in time, snap. That's the way I want to actually restore that data. Succeeding in that vision I think will definitely change the game for how we actually look at doing backup and restores in the future. >> A lot of talk at this conference about resilience. >> John: Um hmm. >> Is that a concept that you think customers, your customers, have really internalized? They understand what that means? >> They're getting it, yeah, definitely. I mean, DR even was something that we had to kind of walk them into. But now, if they have an outage, it's not just money that they're losing. It's the reputation. And as we all know now, reputation is key. And you look at Twitter. When somebody has an outage, or has a problem, I mean, their users essentially just blow 'em up and there's memes and all kinds of other stuff. There's a lot of funny ones for the airlines, from Delta and Southwest havin' those challenges. And so, our customers today are realizing that yeah, we can't go a day or two without having service to our customers. We can maybe go a minute or two, but that's about it. We need to make sure we're being resilient with our data. We need to make sure we're protecting it, we'll be able to create ways to quickly roll it back to make sure our customers are up on line. Because they just can't go down anymore. >> How important is security as a driver of resilience and spending on disaster recovery now? >> Yeah, security is definitely, with being able to quickly restore from like a ransomware, it's startin' to bring that infrastructure that has been, security's been a little different there, and where network security's been a little bit different, kind of bringing them together to create, say, we need to have a full package. We not only need to figure out how we're blocking it at the edge and blocking it internally east west, but we need to figure out, if we're going to get breached, 'cause we're going to get breached, how can we quickly restore from that? How can we make sure we're not being held ransom for Bitcoin or whatever the next currency's going to be that they're going to be held ransom for that they just can't pay because maybe it would knock them out of business. >> So, John, Expedient, being a small, specialized cloud service provider, you're kind of dancing with elephants when you're out there with Amazon and Microsoft. What's the secret? What keeps you guys successful and how do you keep viable? >> There's a lot of different things. I think the way we focus on technologies is a little bit unique. I mean, we're there to design the best technical solution for that customer. And not maybe fit them into a one-size-fits-all outfit. The other side of it is, a lot of our customers like the local touch and feel. Majority of our customers are at and around our data centers. That way they can get to learn the facility, they can, even if they're running cloud services with us, they know where it lives. That maybe eases their minds from a compliance standpoint, security standpoint. Or just in a trust, saying, I'm going to take my data that's been living inside of my data center, that's key to my business, and I'm going to give it to somebody, I at least want a face and a name so I can know who to call and who to talk to if there is ever a problem. >> Face to face still matters. >> It does, and I think it's always going to matter. And I think we're always going to have some sort of high interaction with every enterprise out there. And that's what they're going to need. 'Cause this stuff can never commoditize all the way. Creating the solution is still hard. Maybe the bits and pieces underneath it are a little bit easier, but the whole packages is going to always be unique and really hard to define in a one-size-fits-all for a lot of those enterprises. >> John White, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> We'll be back from Zertocon 2018 here in Boston. I'm Paul Gillin, this is The Cube. (light techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from the Moscone Center it's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit San Francisco 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to our exclusive Cube Coverage here in San Francisco, California for Amazon Web Services AWS Summit 2018. We are all day covering the regional event for Amazon Web Services. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman, our next guest is Steve Hall, vice president of partnerships at a company called, CloudCheckr. Cloud check with an r dot com. Companies we see in the ecosystem doing great stuff really capturing the growth of the cloud. Steve, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> So I got to ask you, so you guys are like Switzerland, you guys are involved in a lot of the stuff. Before I go into some of the pointed questions, we'll have to get your thoughts on the cloud, but take a minute first to explain what CloudCheckr does, your core business, and why are you calling yourself "Switzerland". Is it like you play nice with all the clouds? Is that where all the cryptocurrency is going to go? I mean give us a straight scoop. >> Sure you bet, so CloudCheckr is a cloud management platform, right, that helps organizations get visibility in control across their public cloud estate. So, you know the challenges that we're seeing really typically fall into two categories. It's "I thought it was going to save me money when going to the cloud" and "I thought that my data was going to be less secure going into the cloud". CloudCheckr helps solve both those problems by helping you reduce costs, eliminate waste, all that good stuff, as well as, identify your attack surface and make sure that its protected. >> John: Is it SaaS offering or is it more... >> SaaS offering, born in the cloud for the cloud. We focus as you said, Switzerland, we really focus on sort of a management layer that sits across a multi-cloud environment where you're not just looking at Amazon and AWSs, but also the Azures and GCPs of the world to make sure that you have kind of that unified single pane of glass that everyone kind of wishes for but they don't necessarily know how to get. >> Yeah and I get the joke on Switzerland with the cryptocurrency. There's legit people are going to Switzerland but metaphorically you guys are, you're independent you want to play with all clouds cause you got to look at the holistic picture. What's the critical thing that you're seeing right now? We had a guest on earlier talking about you leave the lights on so to speak. You know the EC2 is running a lot of inefficiencies. You got security. Are you guys kind of like a dashboard, single pane of management glass in there? Is it other services? What specifically are you guys focused on right now? Obviously the growth of the cloud is what it is. You guys, that's a tailwind for you guys. >> Yeah I mean. >> The key thing that you do? >> So I mean I think the biggest thing that we see driving our business right is the economics around the cloud. Everyone's moving, the workloads are you know obviously whether they're in the early days or kind of more mature, everyone thinks that by moving to the cloud they're going to save money. And there's data out there to suggest that there's upwards of 30 to 40 percent wastage happening inside of the cloud environments today just because people, using that analogy, leave light switches on, and they didn't even realize that they, they didn't know how to find them, right. So where we see a lot of pain, right, is what do I do, right? Where do I start? And so partnering with not only the native tools that Amazon brings to bear, you know trusted advisor and specter, all the other cool tools... >> So is a new term being developed called cloud sprawl? Stu we talked about server sprawl. I mean you've got Lambda now. I mean is it cloud sprawl? Is that an issue? >> Oh there's so surely. And cloud spend sprawl, right. You know it's this shadow IT thing that goes on. Somebody told me a story of the CMO at Bank of America got a phone call a couple of years ago from the CEO after a Superbowl ad that ran and said what is this thing that you're doing? And she said oh we just turned it on in the cloud. And he's like did you talk to IT? Did you have anybody do it? And she's like why would I do that? Why would I even bother? I can just go do it myself. So how do I get my arms around that. Right obviously is somewhat of an opportunity but also challenge. >> Steve you talk about getting your arms around something. When we talk to customers, you know IT is heterogeneous. >> Steve: Right. >> So you know yes public cloud and people are growing and using more Amazon, but there's other clouds, there's by service providers, and oh yeah I've still probably got some data centers because you know there's 35 years after you stopped building those a few years back for you to do that. How do you help them get around there? And I'd love to hear how are you seeing Amazon maturing and working in some of those environments. It used to be Amazon is all in public cloud only. Then it was oh there's the VMWare stuff, there's the RedHat stuff. Oh hey they're starting to work with service providers even. What are you seeing and how are you involved in that? >> Yeah you bet. I mean again I think you touch on again probably the biggest problem which is visibility, right? And transparency. And how do I create accountability around all of that because there's new roles that are emerging inside of these organizations to try to do things with this cloud stuff as well as a lot of questions are being asked. They don't even know how to answer them. And so you know where Amazon I think is really maturing, we'll start there, right is not only providing a lot of just the native tooling, it's somewhat kind of yes Amazon focused but focused really on kind of providing that, that visibility that they need. Where I think CloudCheckr really kind of steps in is sort of a little bit deeper level view of what they have as well as how do you cross-pollinate that with the other environments. Whether it's a hybrid environment or another cloud provider that you want to again kind of bring into one singular view. That's really how we try to help. And then I think that the other piece that you touched on, which is there's this whole managed service provider and reseller community that's really quite mature in fact within the AWS ecosystem. Which I think is one of the things that AWS really kind of differentiates itself with by empowering partners to be able to build a practice around AWS. Because again another challenge that we see is cloud is great, but I don't have the people to do it. Or I don't know what the people that I do have don't know what to do and so having a trusted like a managed service provider to turn to to go do that stuff is like a blessing. >> What sort of areas, where can that local managed service provider, where can they help? You know is it just cause they have localized people? But what services od they have, is it just enabling people to get up into the cloud? Or are there things that they're doing between you know the service provider and Amazon with direct connect and the like? >> Well I think that so the first thing honestly ends up becomes billing truthfully. And that sounds so boring in many respects, but okay I get a bill, but the billing is really... >> Stu: Yeah the CFO doesn't think it's boring. >> But they don't. As well as you get the bill, how do I make sense of it right? And so you know clients are looking for managed service providers to sort of make sense of all of this cost data and usage data and give them sort of the view of who's using what and how much should we spend right? Because money talks. And so that is driving a different conversation for managed service providers. So building, we're seeing a lot of our partners working up new practices around cost optimization and how to build an entire, not only just billing portal, but a practice on top of that to help optimize the environment for... >> Well there's such a huge opportunity there. I've talked to customers that were like I dedicated engineer to do financial engineering rather than architecting. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So there's an opportunity when you see that it's like oh wait, do you want a head count of a highly trained engineer? >> Right. >> Or you know is there, that's what the partner can help with right? >> Yeah and there's a couple of different ways that they can do it too. We see partners, some that are hiring the smart guy in the room, putting him in a back room and doing the analytics and analysis around that data. Others are literally just creating white labeled portals and putting it in front of their customers. So there's lots of different ways that AWS makes it easy for a partner to build new products and actually turn their seven percent margins into 20 percent margins by building more services and solutions around the AWS infrastructure. >> Steve I want to get your industry expertise on something. You're the vice president of partnerships and you know we always talk on theCUBE, Stu, myself, Dave Vellante, Jeff, Rick, and the team around what it's like to compete in a modern era. And we commented on Amazon's competitive strategy. For the first time they've got to actually deal with heavy dose of competition. >> Steve: Yeah. >> And no one's going to give up the market share. They've got to fight tooth and nail. You deal with all the cloud providers. But people are learning there's a new kind of partnership. If everything's API based you've got SAASified, platform as a service kind of going away to infrastructure as a service. You have this cloud fabric, global reach with regions, all kinds of new moving parts. How is it changing partnerships? How do, how should people who are in trying to partner with the big clouds. >> Steve: Yep. >> Is there a posture, is there an approach, is there a playbook that you see that's different than the old way? The old was you know, press the pavement, press the palms together, you get dinner, you get coffee, whenever you do a deal, longer time horizon. Now it's you've got to have services, you got the data, whole different landscape. What's your thoughts on the partner equation. How should people partner, what's the playbook? >> And I'll speak on for CloudCheckr's perspective. So we've been going to REInvent and these summits for the last five, six years, right. So I remember when this was 500 people in a room, right. You know and there's 10 vendors exhibiting. And here you have 7,000 plus people now that are, you know where you have lots of vendors that you're very familiar with, right. That are large scale kind of like global vendors. So definitely the competitive landscape has changed and it's partly just like you said, the opportunity, right. This is a... I heard somebody say it's probably market cap of a a trillion dollars in public cloud right at the end of the day. So everyone sees the opportunity but how do you actually make good use of it as a partner to the cloud providers? First of all you solve a real problem. Right? There's a lot of... I tend to see a lot people that are just cloud dipping their solutions and kind of coming to market around things because they want a piece of the pie. But if you really focus yourself on how do I solve some of the most pressing needs. And that's where again we see, you know, our product helping customers around cost and security but even our partners. >> So the ecosystem is the key. You've got to be part of a ecosystem. Is that the criteria? >> You got to play, well yeah, it's not just go to coffee and have drinks. Right you know what I mean. It's connect with the people inside of your community. Whether it's at these events or whether it's in your local AWS offices or in the smaller sort of settings to say what are your customers asking for right? And how can we help you with that? I mean it's pretty obvious stuff. >> So Steve, you mentioned security a few times. You know if you go back a few years it was like oh I'm going to be less secure if I go to cloud. Now most people realize it's an opportunity for me to readdress security. >> Yeah. >> And chances are security's better because when's the last time I really updated all my security. >> Yeah. >> What are the hot buttons? What are you seeing? What's Amazon doing well? What does the industry as a whole need to do better? >> Absolutely well I mean you touched on it. Security used to be the reason not to go and now it is the reason to go. And I think companies realize oh my God they've got hundreds of security engineers. We have two. So I think that their infrastructure's probably more secure. What we're seeing as the hot press buttons. I mean I think the last 18 months, 12 months have been all about S3 buckets, right. You know and all of this data that's been exposed sitting out there on the internet. And I think AWS did a fabulous job of changing some of the configurations to allow customers not to stab themselves in the foot. But I think that a lot of it ends up being human error, right. You know really it's the human element inside of security that continues to plague the industry. And the cloud only makes it harder because now you don't have IT people doing IT. You've got business people doing IT, right. Back to the Bank of America example. So, sorry Bank of America. So my point is yeah I think that you know it's really back to how do we create solutions that non-IT people can use and make sense of it so that we can put common sense good controls in place. >> Business models are critical nailing the business model's critical. >> Steve: Yeah. >> Alright Steve final question for you. I want to kind of just put you on the spot a little bit here. You guys are trying to solve a real big need in the market place. Becoming a trusted source for cloud optimization, cloud costs, I mean it's going to impact obviously financial workflows and rolling the data up so a lot of moving parts at AWS and other clouds. >> Yeah. >> So are you guys using machine learning and AI because if Werner Vogels says hey look at all the magic that can happen in the cloud, how are you guys using all these data points? How are you rolling them up? Can you share >> Yeah. >> the philosophy, the tech. >> Yeah. >> Are you guys cutting edge? Are you on the front bleeding edge? What... >> Absolutely. >> Are you guys eating your own job food? I mean I'm obviously putting you on the spot there. >> Yeah, no no that's fine. I mean so we are absolutely using machine learning and artificial intelligence on the back end. Using AWS technology in fact to empower a lot of that inside of the project or platform. And it is all about taking all of these disparate data sources, I called them machine exhaust, of the cloud right that's kind of coming out. How do I put good sense to that? And CloudCheckr really is that layer above all of that whether it's your cloud trail logs or your cloud watch metrics or your cloud usage report, putting it all into one place and then doing machine learning and predictive analytics around that. That's exactly what CloudCheckr's all about. >> So it's an interpretation challenge, right. >> Right, right I mean, go ahead. >> Yeah so Steve it's just we talked about kind of the heterogeneous nature and you brought up a term a service area. >> Steve: Yeah. >> When we start adding in things like IOT, service area's going to grow exponentially and the heterogeneous nature >> Yes. is just going to go up you know. >> Steve: Yeah. >> The same. Is CloudCheckr going to help there? Is that something your customers are ready for? >> I think they're already there right. So I mean I think a lot of our customers, like the use cases that we see are either big data analytics or IOT or you know some other use case around why they're using public cloud to begin with. And so really it's about as that expansion increased usage occurs, how do I protect that attack surface? How do I look for known good state information and then lock my doors and windows if you will? As well as how do I make sure that I'm using the right resources in the right way? So that again I have that visibility and transparency and then you can have the right controls and automation around it to do something about it. >> Steve thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Check out CloudCheckr. >> Thanks. >> Again this is one of those things as you use the cloud there's going to be more bells and whistles, more services to watch and instrument. Obviously cost containment and managing the growth is certainly going to be something to watch using the data and managing that's what CloudCheckr does. Of course theCUBE is bringing all the data here at the trusted source for all the action at AWS Summit 2018. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. More coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube covering PentahoWorld 2017 brought to you by Hitachi Ventara. >> Welcome back to theCube's live coverage of PentahoWorld brought to you by Hitachi Ventara. My name is Rebecca Knight, I'm your host along with my co-host, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Michael Weiss, he is the senior manager at NASDAQ, and Shere Saidon, who is analytics manager at NASDAQ. Thanks so much for coming back to theCube, I should say, you're Cube veterans now. >> We are, at least I am. This is his first year, this is his first time at PentahoWorld. So, excited to bring him along. >> Okay so you're a newbie but you're a veteran so. (laughing) >> Great. So, tell us a little bit about what has changed since the last time you came on, which was 2015, back then? >> So the biggest thing that's happened in the past 18 months is we've launched seven new exchanges. Integrated seven new exchanges. We bought the ISE, the International Stock Exchange, which is three options markets. We just completed that integration in August. We've also bought the Canadian, CHI-X, the Canadian Exchange, which also had three equities markets, so we integrated them, and we went live with a dark pool offering for Goldman back in June. So now we operate a dark pool for Goldman Sachs, and we're looking to kind of expand that offering at this point. >> So you're just getting bigger and bigger. So tell our viewers a little bit how Pentaho fits into this. >> So Pentaho is the engine that kind of does all our analytics behind the scenes at post trade, right. So we do a lot of traditionally TL, where we're doing batch processing. In the back-end we're doing a little bit more with the Hadoop ecosystem leveraging things like EMR, Spark, Presto, that type of stuff, And Pentaho kind of helps blend that stuff together a little bit. We use it for reporting, we do some of the BA, we're actually now looking to have the data Pentaho generates plug in a little bit of Tableau. So, we're looking to expand it and really leverage that data in other ways at this point. Even doing some things more externally, doing more data offerings via Pentaho externally. >> So I got to do a NASDAQ 101 for my 13 year-old. Came up to me the other day and said, "Daddy, what's the NASDAQ index and how does it work?" Well, give us a 20 second answer. >> Michael: On the NASDAQ index? >> Yeah, what's the NASDAQ Index and how does it work? >> Probably the wrong person to answer that one but, the index is generally just a blend of various stocks. So the S&P 500 is a blend of different stocks, much like that the cues, are NASDAQ's equivalent of the S&P, right, so, we use a different algorithm to determine the companies that make up that blend, but it's an index just like at the S&P. >> They're weighted by market cap- >> Michael: Right, yeah. >> And that determines the number at the end- >> Michael: Correct. >> And it goes up and down based on what the stock's index. >> Right, and that's how most people know NASDAQ, right. They see the S&P went up by 5 points, The Dow went down by 3 and the NASDAQ went up by a point, right. But most people don't realize that NASDAQ also operates 27 exchanges worldwide, I think it is now. So, probably a little bit more, maybe closer to 32, but... >> So you mentioned that you're doing a dark pool for Goldman >> Michael: Yes. >> So that's interesting. We were talking off camera about HFT and kind of the old days, and dark pools were criticized at the time. Now Goldman was one of the ones shown to be honest and above board, but what does that mean the dark pool for your business and how does that all tie in? >> Michael: So, dark pools are isolated markets, right, so they don't necessarily interact with the NASDAQ exchange themselves, it's all done within the pool. You interact with only people trading on that pool. What NASDAQ has done is we took our technology and we now host it for Goldman so, we have I-NETs our trading system, so we gave them I-NET, we built all the surrounding solutions, how you manage symbols, how you manage membership. Even the data, we curate their data in the AWS. We do some Pentaho transformations for them. We do some analytics for them. And that's actually going to start expanding, but yeah, we've provided them an entire solution, so now they don't have to manage their own dark pool. And now we're going to look to expand that to other potential clients. >> Dave: So that's NASDAQ as a technology >> Yes. >> Dave: Provider. Very interesting. So I was saying, earlier, the Hong Kong Stock Exchange is basically closing the facility where they house humans, again another example of machines replacing humans. So the joining, well NASDAQ, kind of, but NYSE, London Stock Exchange, Singapore, now Hong Kong... Essentially, electronic trading. So, brings us to the sort of technology underpinnings of NASDAQ. Shere, maybe you can talk a little bit about your role, and paint a picture of the technology infrastructure. >> Yeah so I focus primarily on the financial side of corporate finance. So we leverage Pentaho to do a lot of data integration, allow us to really answer our business questions. So, previously it would take days to put basic reporting together, now you've got it all automated, or we're working towards getting it mostly automated, and it just answer the questions that we need. And no longer use our gut to drive decisions, we're using hard data. And so that's helped us instrumentally in a lot of different places. >> Dave: So, talk more about the data pipeline, where the data's coming from, how you're blending it, and how you're bringing it through the pipeline and operationalizing it. >> Yeah, so we've got a lot of different billing systems, so we integrate companies, and historically we've let them keep their billings systems. So just kind of bring it all together into our core ERP, seeing how quantities...and just getting the data, and just figuring out on the basic side, how much do we make from a certain customer? What are we making from them? What happens in different scenarios if they consolidate, or if they default? And some of the pipeline there is just blending it all together, normalizing the data, making sure it's all in the same format, and then putting it in a format where our executives or business managers can actually make decisions off of it. >> Well you're talking about the decision making process, and you said it's no longer gut, you're using data to drive your decisions, to know which direction is the right direction. How big a change is that, just culturally speaking? How has that changed? >> Yeah, it's huge, at least on our side, it's making us a long more confident in the decisions we're making. We're no longer going in saying, hey this is probably how we should do it. No, the numbers are showing us that this is going to pay off, and we stick to it and look at the hard facts, rather than what do we think is going to happen? >> So, talk a little bit about what you guys are seeing here, and you're doing a lot of speaking here, we were joking earlier, you're kind of losing your voice. You're telling your story, what kind of reactions you getting? Share with us the behind the scenes at the conference. >> I think at this conference you're seeing a lot of people kind of fall in line with similar ideas that we're trying to get to. Taking advantage more instead of your traditional MPPs, or your traditional relational databases, moving more towards this Hadoop ecosystem. Leveraging Spark, Presto, Flume, all these various new technologies that have emerged over the past two to five years, and are now more viable than ever. They're easier to scale, if you look at your traditional MPPs, like we're a big Redshift user, but every time you scale it there's a cost with that, and we don't necessarily need to maintain all that data all the time, so something in the Hadoop ecosystem now lets us maintain that data without all the unnecessary cost. I see a lot of more of that than I did two years ago, a lot more people are following that trend. I think the other interesting trend I've seen this week is this idea of becoming more cloud agnostic. Where do you operate, and how do you store your data should be irrelevant to the data processing, and I think it's going to be a tough nut to crack for Pentaho, or any vendor. But if you can figure out a way to either do some type of cloud parity, where you have support across all your services, but you don't have to know which service you deploy to when you design your pipelines, I think that's going to be huge. I think we're a little ways from that, but that's been a common theme this week as well, both private and your big three cloud providers right now, your Googles, your Azures, and your AWS. >> So when I asked you said cloud agnostic, that's great, good vision and aspiration. The follow up would be, am I correct that you don't see it as data location agnostic, right, you want to bring the cloud model to your data, versus try to force your data into a cloud? Or not necessarily? >> A lot of it I think is being driven by not wanting to be vendor locked in, so they want to have the ability to, and I think this is easier said than done, the ability to move your data to different cloud providers based on pricing or offerings, right, and right now going from AWS to Google to Azure would be a very painful process. So you move petabytes of data across, it's not cost efficient and all the savings you want to realize by moving to maybe a Google in the future, are not going to be realized cause of all the effort it's going to take to get there. >> Dave: We had CERN on earlier, and they were working on that problem... >> Yeah, it's not a trivial problem to solve, but if you can crack that, and you can then say hey I wanna...even if I have a service offering, Like our operating a dark pool for Goldman. We also have a market tech side, where we sell our trading platform and various solutions to other exchanges worldwide. If we can come up with a way to be able to deploy to any cloud provider, even on an on-prem cloud, without having to do a bunch of customizations each time, that would be huge, it would revolutionize what we do. We're, as our own company, starting to look at that, and talking with Pentaho, they're also... are going to eye that as a potential way to go, with abstractions and things like that, but it's going to take some time. >> We're you guys here yesterday for the keynotes? >> Michael: Saw some of the keynotes, yes. >> The big messaging, like every conference that you go to, is be the disruptor, or you're going to get disrupted. We talked earlier off camera... Trading volumes are down, so the way you traditionally did business is changing, and made money is changing. >> Michael: Right. >> We talked earlier about you guys becoming a technology provider, I wonder if you could help us understand that a little bit, from the standpoint of NASDAQ strategy, when we hear your CEOs talk, real visionary, technology driven transformations. >> Yeah, I think Adena's coming in is definitely looking at that as a trend, right? Trading volumes are down, they've been going down, they've kind of stabilized a little bit, and we're stable able to make money in that space, but the problem is there's not a ton of growth. We acquire the ISE, we acquire the CHI-X, we're buying market share at that point. So you increase revenue, but you also increase overhead in that way. And you can only do so many major acquisitions at a time, you can only do how many one billion dollar acquisitions a year before you have to call it a day. And we can look at more strategic, smaller acquisitions for exchanges, but that doesn't necessarily bring you the transformation, the net revenue you're looking for. So what Adena has started to look at is, how do we transform to more of a technology company? We're really good at operating exchanges, how do we take that, and we already have market tech doing it, but how do we make that more scalable, not just to the financial sector, but to your other exchanges, your Ubers or your StubHubs of the world? How do you become a service provider, or a platform as a service for these other companies, to come in and use your tech? So we're looking at how do we rewrite our entire platform, from trading to the back-end, to do things like: Can we deploy to any cloud provider? Can we deploy on-prem? Can we be a little bit more technology agnostic so to speak, and offer these as services, and offer a bunch of microservices, so that if a startup comes up and wants to set up an exchange, they can do it, they can leverage our services, then build whatever other applications they want on top of it. I think that's a transformation we need to go through, I think it's good vision, and I'm looking forward to executing it. It's going to be a couple years before we see the fruits of that labor, but Adena's really doing a great job of coming in, and really driving that innovation, and Brad Peterson as well, our CIO, has really been pushing this vision, and I think it's really going to work out for us, assuming we can execute. >> Well you know what's interesting about that, if I may, is financial services is usually so secretive about their technology, right? But your business, you guys are becoming a technology provider, so you got to face the world and start marketing your capabilities now, and opening about that. It's sort of an interesting change. >> I think you'll see that starting to become more of a thing over the next year or two, as we start actually looking to build out the platform and figure it out. We do market on the market tech side, I mean it's not a small business, but we're more strategic about who we market to, cause we're still targeting your financial exchanges, more internationally than in the U.S., but there's only so many of them, again you have to start looking at rebranding, rebuilding, and rethinking how we think about exchanges in general, and not thinking of them as just a financial thing. >> Well that's what I wanted to get into, because you're talking about this rebranding, and this rebuilding, this transformation, to the backdrop within an industry that is changing rapidly, and we have sort of the threat of legislative reform, perhaps some administrative reforms coming down all the time, so how do you manage that? I mean, those are a lot of pressures there, are you constantly trying to push the envelope right up until any changes take place? Or what would you say Shere and Michael? >> Probably again not the right person to ask about this, but we're definitely trying to stay on top of the cutting edge in innovation and the technologies out there that, whether it be Blockchain, or different types of technologies. I mean we're definitely trying to make sure we're investing in them, while maintaining our core businesses. >> Right, it's trying to find that balance right now of when to make the next step in the technology food chain, and when to balance that with regulatory obligations. And if you look at it, going back to the idea of being able to launch marketplaces, I think what you're ending up seeing over the coming years is your Ubers, your StubHubs, I think they're going to become more regulated at some level. And we're good at operating more regulated markets, so I think that's where we can kind of come in and play a role, and help wade through those regulations a little bit more, and help build software to adhere to those regulations. >> Since you brought up Blockchain, Jamie Dimon craps all over Blockchain, or you know, Bitcoin, and then clarifies his remarks, saying look, technology underneath is here to stay. Thoughts on Blockchain? Obviously Financial Services is looking at it very closely, doing some really advanced stuff, what can you tell us? >> Yeah, I think there's no argument that it's definitely an innovation and a disruptive technology. I think that it's definitely in it's early stages across the board, so we're investing in it where we can, and trying to keep a close eye on it. We think that there's a lot of potential in a lot of different applications. >> As the NASDAQ transforms its business, how does that effect the sort of back-end analytics activity and infrastructure? >> The data is just growing, that's like the biggest challenge we have now. Data that used to be done in Excel, it's just no longer an option, so now in order to get the insights that we used to get just from having a couple people doing Excel transformations, you need to now invest in the infrastructure in the back-end, and so there's a lot that needs to go into building out an infrastructure to be able to ingest the data, and then also having the UI on the front-end, so that the business can actually view it the way they want. >> So skills wise, how's that affecting who you guys are hiring and training? And how's that transformation going? >> Michael: I'll let you go first. >> I think there's definitely, data analytics is a hot field. It's very new, there's definitely a big skills gap in administrative work and in the analytics side. Usually you have people could perform analytical functions just by being administrative or operational, and now it's really, we're investing in analysts, and making sure that we have the right people in place to be able to do these transformations, or pull the data and get the answers that we need from them. >> I mean from the tech side, I think what you're seeing is where we traditionally would just plug a developer in there, whether a Java developer, or an ETL developer, I think what you're seeing now is we're looking to bring more of a business minded data analyst to the tech side, right? So we're looking to bring a data engineer, so to speak, more to the tech side. So we're not looking to hire a traditional four year Computer Science degree, or Software Engineering degree, you're looking for a different breed of person, cause quite honestly because you're traditional Java dev. or C++ developer, they're not skilled or geared towards data. And when we've tried to plug that paradigm in, it just doesn't really work, so we're looking now to hiring more of an analyst, but someone who's a little bit more techie as well. They still need to have those skills to do some level of coding, and what we are finding is that skill gap is still very much... There's a gap there. There's a huge gap. And I think it's closing, but- >> And as you have to fund those for the new areas, I presume, like many companies in your business, you're trying to move away from the sort of undifferentiated low-level infrastructure deployment hassles, and the IT labor costs there, especially as we move to the cloud, presumably, so is that shift palpable? I mean, can you see that going on? >> Yeah, I think we made a lot of progress over the past couple years in doing that. We do more one button deployments, where the operation cost is a lot lower, a lot more automation around alerting, around when things go wrong, so there's not necessarily a human being sitting there watching a computer. We've invested a lot in that area to kind of reduce the costs, and make the experience better for our end user. And even from a development side, the cost of a new application is a lot less every time you have to do a release. The question is, how do you balance that with the regulations, and make sure you still have a good process in place. The idea of putting single button deployments in place is a great one, but you still have to balance that with making sure that what you push to productions been tested, well defined, and it meets the need, and you're not just arbitrarily throwing things out there. So we're still trying to hit that balance a little bit, it's more on the back-end side. The trading system is not quite there for obvious reasons, we're way more protective of what goes out there, then surrounding it a lot of the times, but I can see a future where, again going back to this idea of transforming our business, where you can stand up and do an exchange with the click of a button. I think that's a trend we're looking at. >> Rebecca: It's not too far in the future. >> No, I don't think it is. >> Last question, Pentaho report card. What are they doing really well? What do you want to see them do better? >> I think they continue to focus in the right areas, focusing more on the data processing side, and with the big data technologies, trying to fill that gap in the big data, and be the layer that you don't have to tie yourself to ike vCloud Air or MapR, you can kind of be a little bit more plug and play. I think they still need to do some improvements on there visualizations in their front-ends. I think they've been so much more focused on the data processing, that part of it, that the visualization's kind of lacked behind, so I think they need to put a little more focus into that, but all in all, they're an A, and we've been extremely happy with them as a software provider. >> Great. >> Shere: I think the visualization part is the part that allows people to understand that value being created at Pentaho. So I think being able to maybe improve a little bit on the visualization could go a far way. >> Michael, Shere, it's been so much fun having you on theCube, and having this conversation, keep that bull market coming please, do whatever you can. >> We'll do our best. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. We are here at PentahoWorld, sponsored by Hitachi Vantara. For Dave Vellante, we will have more from theCube in just a little bit.

(click and snap) >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman with theCUBE, and we're here at the Winslow Technology Group Dell EMC User Group here in Boston in the shadows of Fenway Park. Happy to have with me Mike Franco, who's the principal solutions architect with Virtustream. Mike, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu. Thanks for having me, and this is a terrific event. It really is. I mean to be here with one of our first channel partners, and by that I mean Winslow Group has been part of Dell for many, many years. They now sell the whole Dell EMC platform with the acquisition last year. And Virtusteam, we opened up a channel partnership just a few months ago, and they were one of the first to join. And here I am in front of hundreds of clients. This is a great opportunity. >> All right, that's great. So we've talked to Scott Winslow, his organization, some of the partners. So, I understand a lot about the Dell relationship. How WTG has been kind of expanding into cloud. Virtustream. Tell us why there's a channel partner now. What that means, and what you look to for somebody like Winslow Group. >> Well, Winslow Group opens up a lot of clients for us, okay? And we need to sell through those partners. Most of these clients are running operations, maybe in the small midsize business, which are really perfect candidates for what we do. Virtustream provides a managed cloud. So unlike the Amazons, the Googles, and the Azures which are great solutions, we're finding clients and saying, "Hey, that was good." But as we start moving to these mission critical applications. The applications that are running my business. We need a managed service. We need performance. We need IO type of critical workloads to be run in a more secure and performance- laden type of cloud. >> Yeah, Jeremy Burton gave the opening remarks. The CMO of Dell. The Dell family really has a large portfolio. I look at kind of the hybrid and multi-cloud world these days, and from a Dell standpoint, you know, VMware has a number of solutions, including VMware on AWS. Dell was working with Microsoft on the Azure (mumbles) solutions. How does Virtustream fit into the overall portfolio? How do you help position, you know, where that fits, okay? Get the mind share and (stutters) the users? >> Great question. I mean, back in May, we announced a connection, okay? So our Cloud Connect, which is vRealized into our stream based clouds. Extreme is our cloud management platform, and a technology that we use to run our off prem clouds. So clients now have the capability through vRealize automation to recognize our cloud into revision, and to modify and manage their workloads through that. We also announced in May, a partnership with our sister company Pivotal. Okay, on their Cloud Foundry. So we now have in Virtustream Enterprise Cloud, the capability to run Cloud Foundry in a managed fashion. Okay, again, Cloud Foundry is a technology that a lot of developers will be using to build applications, but it also runs those applications. And now that those applications are becoming stateful and a critical part of their business, they're looking to somebody to manage that. And now we have the capability. And then we talk about the rest of the EMC portfolio, where Native Hybrid Cloud is a package solution that's built on vRacks or vRails, right? Dell's converged black forms with the Native Hybrid Cloud or Pivotal Cloud Foundry, lay it right on top of it with the tools to be able to manage it. That's sold directly to a client, and we have the capability as Virtustream to manage those. So now the client can have these on-client premise solutions, as well as being able to tether back to our enterprise cloud. Our Virtustream Enterprise Cloud. >> Yep. Mike, we saw in the storage industry, there's lots of different solutions, because there's lots of different needs. I find there is no typical cloud strategy when it comes to most companies. But when you're talking to users, whether it be at this event or you know, out talking to customers, you know, why are they coming to Virtustream? What are the big questions they're asking you? What are the challenges that they see, and how do you help them? >> So, I see most of the time they come to us is because at these types of events, they are clients that are delighted with Dell EMC technologies, right? Dell EMC is a leader in almost every product that they sell, okay? And not only that, but the customer satisfaction, the client care service that Dell EMC provides is second to none. We're an extension of that, okay? We have the ability to manage either on prem, or of prem, and that gray area in between in helping them enable to get to the cloud. So, it really has opened up a lot of doors for Virtustream, and yes the solutions are endless. But we had the capability to manage that for them on their prem, and we've been very successful doing it. >> Great. Mike, we know SAP was one of those solutions that really Virtustream made its name on. Well, I know you continued to work on that. Can you give us, you mentioned Cloud Foundry. What are some of the applications? What are some of the big use cases that your customers are having success with? >> So in June we announced the Virtustream Healthcare Cloud. Okay, so what is that? That's our enterprise cloud, now tailored specifically for the healthcare compliance. So it's HIPAA compliant. And also, we're managing some of the more critical applications. The healthcare environment is not cloud native, okay? It's still based on the platform too, right? They virtualized the client server, the three-tiered architecture database, web and app server type of environments that the systems have reckoned, okay? We're expanding into electronic medical records, EMRs, critical client patient care, some analytics for medication. So we're moving into those other areas that's complimenting the SAP work that we're doing. >> Okay, well Mike, appreciate you giving us the updates on Virtustream. Thanks so much for joining us here at the Winslow Technology Group Dell EMC User Conference. (click and snap)

>> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, with theCUBE, and we're here at the Winslow Technology Group Dell EMC User Group, and happy to have on the program multi-time guest of theCUBE, Scott Winslow, who is the president and founder of Winslow Technology Group. Scott, thanks so much for having us here. >> Good to be here, Stu, good afternoon. >> Alright, so, you opened up the event here, I think you've said you got between 150 and 175 users, and, if I remember right, your first user event was actually here, and it was like, what, eight users? So, you know, great location here in Boston, you know, Fenway right behind. You're taking your users to the game. Tell us a little bit about the history of the company, and this event. >> Yeah, when we started the user group 13 years ago, it was here at the Hotel Commonwealth, and it's been a great venue for us. Really it started with eight customers around a conference room table, we had Marty Sanders, the CTO from Compellent, Phil Soran, one of my mentors is the CEO of Compellent and founder, and I think we were talking about, how do we improve the GUI on the Enterprise manager for Compellent, and that was how it started, and kind of last minute, we decided to go to a ball game afterwards, and that was kind of the roots of this event, but you know, it's changed over the 13 or 14 years, but we try to provide really good education for our customers, give them some things to think about in their infrastructure and their environments, we try to be a thought-leader, and it's kind of evolved around that theme for the last 13 or 14 years. Obviously a lot bigger now than it was. We've grown up; the challenge for us is how do we continue to have our customers have a white-glove experience, as we continue to grow, but we're really excited about, where Compellent took us to Dell, and Dell led us to Dell EMC, and you know, here we are. >> Yeah, so, Compellent to Dell, Dell to Dell EMC, and we're still talking to the storage industry about making their user interfaces better, right? >> (laughs) We are, we are. Well, I mean, we are in one sense, but in another sense is you move into hyper-converged, you know, that really is kind of the backdrop for that story, right? Because, as you get into hyper-converged infrastructures, you're talking about, you know, one-click upgrades of server storage networking hypervisor, so I think it really is kind of a good backdrop, and we've seen that evolve over the years. >> Yes, Scott, when I look at your portfolio, it started out very much storage, you now have server storage network hyper-converged, the PC and mobile cloud, you know, how many people do you have in the company now, and how do you manage that kind of change and expanse of your portfolio without getting a mild wide and an inch deep? >> Yeah, we've got 37 people in the company now, so we've added six this year already. I think we try not to go too wide in terms of number of vendors. We've tried to focus on a few key strategic partners, so for us that's, you know, Dell EMC, it's Nutanix, it's VMware, and try to really specialize in those areas. We think customers are looking for a partner that's got deep technical expertise, really good sales acumen. I guess a fair criticism of us would be, "you don't go wide enough, you're not partnered "with Cisco or HP," but we'll accept that. We think it's led to 35% growth over the last three years, and we think it's been a good strategy for us. >> Yeah, no, strong growth absolutely. What are you hearing from your users, you know, how much does this digital transformation, pulling them along, and driving them to kind of that breadth of solutions that you're offering? >> Yeah, I mean we're having conversations with them every day, and in the conversation, often times, is do we continue kind of down the path we've been? We're very comfortable with a 3-2-1 solution, for us, a lot of times that's a Dell server, Dell networking, Dell Compellent, we're very comfortable providing that, but you know, as they look and say, "Hey, we built this wonderful car, but it's probably "going to run out of gas at some point," do we move into more of a hyper-converged solution? Do we look at, you know, a cloud solution? And, you know, how do they continue to evolve their environments? And that's provided a great role for us to consult with them, in that regard. >> Yeah, all of your partners, Dell, Nutanix, VMware, all trying to figure out how they live in kind of this hybrid or multi-cloud world. How are your partners doing, what you as kind of the voice of the customer, do you want to see from them to kind of mature these solutions even further? >> Well, I think we've seen it already, if you think about like at .NEXT, you know, Nutanix announces cloud integration with Google, I think we're looking for solutions where we can provide a really good on-prem solution for some of the data, but then you have to have the ability to go off-prem and have cloud integration, and if I look at Nutanix, Dell EMC, VMware, I think they're providing that. If you look at, like, an NSX solution from VMware, for example, you know, we've seen the virtualization of, with VMware we've seen the virtualization of storage with products like Compellent and others, and now you've got a virutalization layer and abstraction layer in the networking with NSX, and that provides some real benefits in terms of what can be done around operating efficiencies of networking, microsegmentation, etc. So, we see those vendors providing those kinds of solutions. >> Yeah, so, NSX is going to be one of the critical components when we get VMware on AWS, I'm curious whether that, Microsoft Azure Stack, or Jeremy Burton was talking this morning about Virtustream being able to go on-premesis. Those solutions, do they excite you, do they excite your customers? You know, what do you say? >> They do, they do excite our customers. I would say right now, I don't think they excite our CFOs much. We're having a lot of conversations with customers about the things like NSX. I wouldn't say it's been a big revenue driver for us. We're still driving a lot of revenue through some of the traditional, you know, server storage networking hyper-converged solutions, but I would say, as it relates to like an NSX for example, it's a topic that customers want to talk about, security's very much top of mind, and it hasn't translated yet into a lot of revenue, but it's definitely a part of the building blocks that our customers are looking at. >> Yeah, you bring up your CFO, and I'm curious, how does the customers looking to kind of change Capex into Opex, how does that affect you, are service providers in the public cloud, are those an opportunity for you, for partnership? Are they a challenge for the kind of the channel's business model? >> Yeah, it's a good question. I think we've seen a lot of the partners that we work with try to provide an operating, Opex model, and try to be more cloud-like in their solutions, so if you look at the Nutanix's and VxRail's, you know, having a solution from Dell EMC or from Nutanix where you can present it up almost like a cloud solution where they only have to commit to maybe 40% of the overall payment, or they can grow it very quickly like they would a cloud solution. So we're seeing a lot of that type of activity, I would say, you know, and at the same time, we're reaching out to the cloud providers, the Amazons and the Azures, to figure out, can we be partnered with them, and what does that model look like, and it's certainly not going to be a lot of margin working with those types of providers, but you can build a big consulting practice around it. So we're heavily engaged in those kind of discussions. >> Alright, Scott, last thing is, your users, as they walk away from this year's event, what do you want them to think about, their relationship with you, and kind of their big takeaway from the event? >> Yeah, I mean, for us, we try to be the trusted advisor, right, that's our role. You've got a number of OEMs out there. We're putting solutions together, that's why we call our engineering team the solutions architects, because we're piecing it all together for them. I look at the manufacturers kind of like as a big aircraft carrier, and they're good aircraft carriers, but we're a little speedboat, right? We can go back and forth, we're very nimble, we can demo stuff quickly. So I want them to think about us as a solution provider, as a trusted advisor, and to think about some of the new technologies that we presented up today. They're so busy working through day-to-day problems that, in one afternoon, to be able to come out here and here about, like, a cloud solution, like Virtustream, NSX, to hear about what's going on in hyper-converge, what's going on in managed security market, I'm hoping they'll take away some of those ideas and think about how it might apply in their business. >> Alright, well, Scott, really appreciate you bringing theCUBE here, looking forward to talking to a lot of your customers as well as some of the partners and, you know, everyone here at the show. I've been Stu Miniman, this is theCUBE.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering HPE Discover 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett Packard Enterprise. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We are here live in Las Vegas for the Cube's exclusive coverage, three days of HPE, Hewlett Packard Enterprises Discover 2017. I'm John Furrier. My co-host Dave Vallente. Seven years of coverage, in our seventh year, and of course, we've had many guests on over those years. And our next guest has been on every year. Steven Deitch, Vice-President Worldwide Service Provider Business. Great to see you. >> Good to see you. >> Seven year Cube alumni. You've been on every year. >> That's right. >> Great to see you. >> Good, just getting older. (laughing) >> And smarter. >> Co-Host: I think we started at VM World. >> We did, way back. >> Yeah, yeah, at Barcelona, I think you were on at Barcelona. We had no live. Alot's changed. I mean, what's up with you right now? Before we get into some of the historical on where we've been and where we're going, what's happening for you in the news here at HPE Discover? What's the big story? >> Well, you know, the headline, and what Meg and Antonio and everybody else have been talking about, is HPE strategy core belief's vision, which revolves around three elements. Making hybrid IT simple. Powering the Edge and then the expertise that goes along to bring that all together. My focus is really around that hybrid IT portion. Hybrid IT is pervasive, on prem, off prem, traditional IT, private cloud, sorry, public cloud. And customers are increasingly moving to that model given the value that they see, of optimizing their IT environment and sticking workloads or sourcing applications from the best execution venue. My personal focus right now is around the service providers that will deliver the off-premise element of HPE's hybrid strategy going forward. Because we made some very clear decisions that we weren't going to do that anymore. We had a public cloud before, that we decided to shut down. With the spinoff of enterprise services, that leaves us dependent, or actually embracing partners to deliver all of that consumption-based off-premise service element. >> I mean, a lot's changed, I mean, the elephant in the room is, obviously, the decline in people buying boxes and, or hardware, peddling hardware, but IT's not declining. IT's shifting. The services model is interesting. Service provider roles are changing. You know, anyone who's in the SAAS businesses, enterprises having SAAS products that they offer their customers. In essence, a traditional enterprise buying data center hardware and software from HPE is now providing a service to their customers. >> Steve: That's right. >> With digital. >> Steve: That's right. >> This is the digital transformation. How does that shift? How do you guys talk to customers now? Because now, the service provider definition has increased. Enterprises have, maybe a portion of traditional enterprise, but also now service provider component. How do you guys talk to customers? 'Cause this is truly where the business transformation is hitting the road. How do you guys talk to customers about this trend? >> Well, let's start at, you mentioned a digital transformation. At the end of the day and in simple terms, it's entities utilizing digital technologies to improve the experience of their constituents, partners, customers, employees, processes, systems, and so forth. Hybrid IT ultimately is one of the enablers behind the digital transformation. We're extremely passionate about that because you're right, that's where everybody's going whether you're small in the market, you're mid, you're a large enterprise, or you're a service provider. You're going through your own transformation as you go forward to be able to deliver against that digital transformation process. >> You said before we're kind of reliant on, then you sort of amended that and said embracing the cloud. In fact, if you don't have a cloud strategy today, you're toast. You are relying on your partners for a big part of that strategy. It's not just Azure. It's not a one trick pony. Can you talk about sort of beyond the big partner, what you're doing to differentiate within that next tier and how they're differentiating from the big guys like AWS. >> Right, and you're absolutely right. We firmly believe the world's going to be multi-cloud so certain work loads will stay in the data center, certain will be private cloud in the data center, others will move to managed private cloud, off premise. Then others will make a lot of sense to go to a hyper-scale provider like Amazon, Azure or Google. You want the best execution venue for that application or workload. It makes all the sense in the world. That's what we call, and you've heard us talk about this before, the right mix. As customers look to where they're going to put those workloads we're working with service providers below those big hyper-scale, big gorillas, to project or deliver value that the hyper-scale providers can not. Everything is not going to go to Amazon. It's a fact. >> It's not a winner take all game. >> It's not a winner take all. The world is way too diverse. Diverse workloads, diverse geographies, diverse business requirements. The way we look at it and we embrace the service provider's below the gorillas, we want to collectively go after opportunities that the hyper-scale providers can not deliver on. It really revolves around three things that we believe, we collectively, but more importantly those service providers should be able to do. One is embrace customer complexity. Go beyond simple services. Full stack SOAs. Drive digital transformations. Embrace customer intimacy. The big gorillas, they have a very broad set of services, very rich set of services, but when it comes time to intimacy and customization, you're not going to go there. A lot of customers remember 98% of the value in the market today is still traditional apps. Number two is geography. We all know that the big boys are in about 15 or 16% physical countries today. There's still 200 countries that don't have a physical presence and when you look at data resonancy, data privacy and so forth, or even performance in latency, you still need that physical presence. Even in the countries where the big hyper-scale providers are, you still need the girth of resources. Technical, sales and so fort and sometimes that's missing. Enterprise customers and mid-market customers want to embrace that. Finally, you know this as well as everybody else, and you made that point before, as customers evolve to hybrid, they have to manage that environment. The combination of on-prem, let's call it Tier 2/Tier 3 service providers, and then the AWSs and the Azures and the Googles of the world. That's a challenge. That's a big challenge to be able to manage that hybrid environment. The service providers that we're working with, we want them to be that hybrid manager, we want them to be that broker in order to mitigate the risk, determine the best execution venue and really deal with the challenges that these guys are going, including cost, time, and skill sets. >> If I could follow up on that in terms of the sustainability of those three differentiators. Complexity, I think you're okay. I think IT just keeps getting more and more complex. The GEOs, maybe slowly over time that changes, but your point is the local resources is probably not something that the big guys are going to put in place any time soon. Belly to belly. It was interesting to hear the CEO of Wipro talk about hyper automating, but we're still decades away from eliminating all the people required. Managing multi-cloud. That seems to be a big one that is a white space right now that nobody has really cornered. >> John: Huge. >> It's not likely that any one of the businesses, Amazon's not going to own multi-cloud management. That's really not even their interest. >> John: That's single cloud. >> To me, number three is a multi-hundred billion dollar opportunity for the market and HP specifically. >> Absolutely. We go hard at all three of those and some are more defendable than others, the geography, you're absolutely right, but the resources will continue to be a challenge for folks. Number one and number three are clearly ways that our service provider partners can take advantage of opportunities that the hyper scale providers will not be able to. >> John: Why HP? >> Why HP? At the end of the day, we bring best of class technology, we bring best in class commercial models, we bring collaborative go to markets. By the way, we don't compete with our partners. I challenge folks to look at their existing vendors and ask those questions. Particularly if you're a service provider partner. Ask those questions to your existing vendors and ask them, why are you competing against me. We are very, I'll use the word clean. Strategy is very simple, very clean, we're not competing. >> John: No hair on those partnership deals. >> No hair. >> If you take out the big hyper-scalers, AWS, Google, and FaceBooks of the world, there's a big torso mid range market that you guys are going after. You didn't have competition. You're going to have all your normal competitors that we all know and talk about going after that same space. Differentiations are what you said. How are they approaching it? They're going to try and create fud around what you guys are doing and certainly this transformation market that we're in is kind of confusing. People now being more educated on the cloud which is a good thing. There's still no real definition of what multi-cloud is. Multi-cloud is happening. how are you guys competing directly with the competitors and how are you guys going to go in to win? >> I think, the fact that we're partner first and we already understand how partners function and what they need in the requirements, it sounds a little simplistic, but at the end of the day, you have a whole lot of service provider partners out there that are pure, but you have thousands of service providers and what they've done? They've evolved from being a traditional reseller or a solution provider, to adding a third business model of being a consume oriented service provider and the fact that we understand the journey that they've been on, the challenges that they go through, I will challenge our competitors to have that deep of insight that have not been channel friendly at all. >> Is that the big transformation? That third point you mentioned, is that the big change in the service provider transformation, is that that consumer focus?L >> It is because we all recognize the big service providers whether you're a big cloud service provider or a consumer service provider like an Uber or Spotify, or a Telco. Think about all of the service providers out there, let's call them, for the lack of a better word a hybrid partner. They have a resale business where they do transactions, they have a solutions business and then they have a consume business. Those are the ones that are actually capable of pulling off the differentiation. They can get intimate with the customer - >> John: They have specialism. >> They have specialism, they have professional services, they have industry insight and they understand their customers much better. >> The channel's turning into the customer for you guys in the way the partner first message - >> It's a different type of partner. Different type of partner. Absolutely. Those three swim lanes. We look at partners will either be in one, two, or all three of them. >> Steve, thanks for coming on the Cube again. Appreciate seeing you. Big takeaway from the show here, the transformations in full swing, the market's kind of going crazy with cloud and IOT. What's your big takeaway from this show this year? >> The clarity. The clarity and the focus that Hewlett Packard has and the fact that our partners and customers are really embracing it. That's the key message that I've heard from everybody. Everybody's super excited and there's a focus. I think maybe in the past, because we've been so big and so complex, but the fact of our skinning down, going in opposite directions as some of our competitors, that clarity will lead to execution excellence, I believe. >> Awesome. Stephen, thanks for taking the time. This is the Cube live coverage from HPE Discover 2017, our 7th year we're covering the transformation. More live coverage after this short break. Stay with us. We'll be right back.