(soft music) >> Welcome back to Sin City, guys and girls we're glad you're with us. You've been watching theCUBE all week, we know that. This is theCUBE's live coverage of AWS re:Invent 22, from the Venetian Expo Center where there are tens of thousands of people, and this event if you know it, covers the entire strip. There are over 55,000 people here, hundreds of thousands online. Dave, this has been a fantastic show. It is clear everyone's back. We're hearing phenomenal stories from AWS and it's ecosystem. We got a great customer story coming up next, featured on the main stage. >> Yeah, I mean, you know, post pandemic, you start to think about, okay, how are things changing? And one of the things that we heard from Adam Selipsky, was, we're going beyond digital transformation into business transformation. Okay. That can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. I have a sense of what it means. And I think this next interview really talks to business transformation beyond digital transformation, beyond the IT. >> Excellent. We've got two guests. One of them is an alumni, Scott Mullins joins us, GM, AWS Worldwide Financial Services, and Brad Peterson is here, the EVP, CIO and CTO of NASDAQ. Welcome guys. Great to have you. >> Hey guys. >> Hey guys. Thanks for having us. >> Yeah >> Brad, talk a little bit, there was an announcement with NASDAQ and AWS last year, a year ago, about how they're partnering to transform capital markets. It was a highlight of last year. Remind us what you talked about and what's gone on since then. >> Yeah, so, we are very excited. I work with Adena Friedman, she's my boss, CEO of NASDAQ, and she was on stage with Adam for his first Keynote as CEO of AWS. And we made the commitment that we were going to move our markets to the Cloud. And we've been a long time customer of AWS and everyone said, you know the last piece, the last frontier to be moved was the actual matching where all the messages, the quotes get matched together to become confirmed orders. So that was what we committed to less than a year ago. And we said we were going to move one of our options markets. In the US, we have six of them. And options markets are the most challenging, they're the most high volume and high performance. So we said, let's start with something really challenging and prove we can do it together with AWS. So we committed to that. >> And? Results so far? >> So, I can sit here and say that November 7th so we are live, we're in production and the MRX Exchange is called Mercury, so we shorten it for MRX, we like acronyms in technology. And so, we started with a phased launch of symbols, so you kind of allow yourself to make sure you have all the functionality working then you add some volume on it, and we are going to complete the conversion on Monday. So we are all good so far. And I have some results I can share, but maybe Scott, if you want to talk about why we did that together. >> Yeah. >> And what we've done together over many years. >> Right. You know, Brian, I think it's a natural extension of our relationship, right? You know, you look at the 12 year relationship that AWS and NASDAQ have had together, it's just the next step, in the way that we're going to help the industry transform itself. And so not just NASDAQ's business transformation for itself, but really a blueprint and a template for the entire capital markets industry. And so many times people will ask me, who's using Cloud well? Who's doing well in the Cloud? And NASDAQ is an easy example to point to, of somebody who's truly taking advantage of these capabilities because the Cloud isn't a place, it's a set of capabilities. And so, this is a shining example of how to use these capabilities to actually deliver real business benefit, not just to to your organization, but I think the really exciting part is the market technology piece of how you're serving other exchanges. >> So last year before re:Invent, we said, and it's obvious within the tech ecosystem, that technology companies are building on top of the Cloud. We said, the big trend that we see in the 2020s is that, you know, consumers of IT, historically, your customers are going to start taking their stacks, their software, their data, their services and sassifying, putting it on the Cloud and delivering new services to customers. So when we saw Adena on stage last year, we called it by the way, we called it Super Cloud. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Some people liked the term but I love it. And so yeah, Super Cloud. So when we saw Adena on stage, we said that's a great example. We've seen Capital One doing some similar things, we've had some conversations with US West, it's happening, right? So talk about how you actually do that. I mean, because you've got a lot, you've got a big on-premises stay, are you connecting to that? Is it all in the Cloud? Paint a picture of what the architecture looks like? >> Yeah. And there's, so you started with the business transformation, so I like that. >> Yeah. >> And the Super Cloud designation, what we are is, we own and operate exchanges in the United States and in Europe and in Canada. So we have our own markets that we're looking at modernizing. So we look at this, as a modernization of the capital market infrastructure, but we happen to be the leading technology provider for other markets around the world. So you either build your own or you source from us. And we're by far the leading provider. So a lot of our customers said, how about if you go first? It's kind of like Mikey, you know, give it to Mikey, let him try it. >> See if Mikey likes it. >> Yeah. >> Penguin off the iceberg thing. >> Yeah. And so what we did is we said, to make this easy for our customers, so you want to ask your customers, you want to figure out how you can do it so that you don't disrupt their business. So we took the Edge Compute that was announced a few years ago, Amazon Outposts, and we were one of their early customers. So we started immediately to innovate with, jointly innovate with Amazon. And we said, this looks interesting for us. So we extended the region into our Carteret data center in Northern New Jersey, which gave us all the services that we know and love from Amazon. So our technical operations team has the same tools and services but then, we're able to connect because in the markets what we're doing is we need to connect fairly. So we need to ensure that you still have that fairness element. So by bringing it into our building and extending the Edge Compute platform, the AWS Outpost into Carteret, that allowed us to also talk very succinctly with our regulators. It's a familiar territory, it's all buttoned up. And that simplified the conversion conversation with the regulators. It simplified it with our customers. And then it was up to us to then deliver time and performance >> Because you had alternatives. You could have taken a more mature kind of on-prem legacy stack, figured out how to bolt that in, you know, less cloudy. So why did you choose Outposts? I am curious. >> Well, Outposts looked like when it was announced, that it was really about extending territory, so we had our customers in mind, our global customers, and they don't always have an AWS region in country. So a lot of you think about a regulator, they're going to say, well where is this region located? So finally we saw this ability to grow the Cloud geographically. And of course we're in Sweden, so we we work with the AWS region in Stockholm, but not every country has a region yet. >> And we're working as fast as we can. - Yes, you are. >> Building in every single location around the planet. >> You're doing a good job. >> So, we saw it as an investment that Amazon had to grow the geographic footprint and we have customers in many smaller countries that don't have a region today. So maybe talk a little bit about what you guys had in mind and it's a multi-industry trend that the Edge Compute has four or five industries that you can say, this really makes a lot of sense to extend the Cloud. >> And David, you said it earlier, there's a trend of ecosystems that are coming onto the Cloud. This is our opportunity to bring the Cloud to an ecosystem, to an existing ecosystem. And if you think about NASDAQ's data center in Carteret, there's an ecosystem of NASDAQ's clients there that are there to be with NASDAQ. And so, it was actually much easier for us as we worked together over a really a four year period, thinking about this and how to make this technological transition, to actually bring the capabilities to that ecosystem, rather than trying to bring the ecosystem to AWS in one of our public regions. And so, that's been our philosophy with Outpost all along. It's actually extending our capabilities that our customers know and love into any environment that they need to be able to use that in. And so to Brad's point about servicing other markets in different countries around the world, it actually gives us that ability to do that very quickly, very nimbly and very succinctly and successfully. >> Did you guys write a working backwards document for this initiative? >> We did. >> Yeah, we actually did. So to be, this is one of the fully exercised. We have a couple of... So by the way, Scott used to work at NASDAQ and we have a number of people who have gone from NASDAQ data to AWS, and from AWS to NASDAQ. So we have adopted, that's one of the things that we think is an effective way to really clarify what you're trying to accomplish with a project. So I know you're a little bit kidding on that, but we did. >> No, I was close. Because I want to go to the like, where are we in the milestone? And take us through kind of what we can expect going forward now that we've worked backwards. >> Yep, we did. >> We did. And look, I think from a milestone perspective, as you heard Brad say, we're very excited that we've stood up MRX in production. Having worked at NASDAQ myself, when you make a change and when you stand up a market that's always a moment where you're working with your community, with your clients and you've got a market-wide call that you're working and you're wanting to make sure that everything goes smoothly. And so, when that call went smoothly and that transition went smoothly I know you were very happy, and in AWS, we were also very happy as well that we hit that milestone within the timeframe that Adena set. And that was very important I know to you. >> Yeah. >> And for us as well. >> Yeah. And our commitment, so the time base of this one was by the end of 2022. So November 7th, checked. We got that one done. >> That's awesome. >> The other one is we said, we wanted the performance to be as good or better than our current platform that we have. And we were putting a new version of our derivative or options software onto this platform. We had confidence because we already rolled it to one market in the US then we rolled it earlier this year and that was last year. And we rolled it to our nordic derivatives market. And we saw really good customer feedback. So we had confidence in our software was going to run. Now we had to marry that up with the Outpost platform and we said we really want to achieve as good or better performance and we achieved better performance, so that's noticeable by our customers. And that one was the biggest question. I think our customers understand when we set a date, we test them with them. We have our national test facility that they can test in. But really the big question was how is it going to perform? And that was, I think one of the biggest proof points that we're really proud about, jointly together. And it took both, it took both of us to really innovate and get the platform right, and we did a number of iterations. We're never done. >> Right. >> But we have a final result that says it is better. >> Well, congratulations. - Thank you. >> It sounds like you guys have done a tremendous job. What can we expect in 2023? From NASDAQ and AWS? Any little nuggets you can share? >> Well, we just came from the partner, the partner Keynote with Adam and Ruba and we had another colleague on stage, so Nick Ciubotariu, so he is actually someone who brought digital assets and cryptocurrencies onto the Venmo, PayPal platform. He joined NASDAQ about a year ago and we announced that in our marketplace, the Amazon marketplace, we are going to offer digital custody, digital assets custody solution. So that is certainly going to be something we're excited about in 2023. >> I know we got to go, but I love this story because it fits so great at the Super cloud but we've learned so much from Amazon over the years. Two pieces of teams, we talked about working backwards, customer obsession, but this is a story of NASDAQ pointing its internal capabilities externally. We're already on that journey and then, bringing that to the Cloud. Very powerful story. I wonder what's next in this, because we learn a lot and we, it's like the NFL, we copy it. I think about product market fit. You think about scientific, you know, go to market and seeing that applied to the financial services industry and obviously other industries, it's really exciting to see. So congratulations. >> No, thank you. And look, I think it's an example of Invent and Simplify, that's another Amazon principle. And this is, I think a great example of inventing on behalf of an industry and then continually working to simplify the way that the industry works with all of us. >> Last question and we've got only 30 seconds left. Brad, I'm going to direct it to you. If you had the opportunity to take over the NASDAQ sign in Times Square and say a phrase that summarizes what NASDAQ and AWS are doing together, what would it say? >> Oh, and I think I'm going to put that up on Monday. So we're going to close the market together and it's going to say, "Modernizing the capital market's infrastructure together." >> Very cool. >> Excellent. Drop the mic. Guys, this was fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate you joining us on the show, sharing your insights and what NASDAQ and AWS are doing. We're going to have to keep watching this. You're going to have to come back next year. >> All right. >> For our guests and for Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (soft music)

>> Narrator: Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube covering PentahoWorld 2017 brought to you by Hitachi Ventara. >> Welcome back to theCube's live coverage of PentahoWorld brought to you by Hitachi Ventara. My name is Rebecca Knight, I'm your host along with my co-host, Dave Vellante. We're joined by Michael Weiss, he is the senior manager at NASDAQ, and Shere Saidon, who is analytics manager at NASDAQ. Thanks so much for coming back to theCube, I should say, you're Cube veterans now. >> We are, at least I am. This is his first year, this is his first time at PentahoWorld. So, excited to bring him along. >> Okay so you're a newbie but you're a veteran so. (laughing) >> Great. So, tell us a little bit about what has changed since the last time you came on, which was 2015, back then? >> So the biggest thing that's happened in the past 18 months is we've launched seven new exchanges. Integrated seven new exchanges. We bought the ISE, the International Stock Exchange, which is three options markets. We just completed that integration in August. We've also bought the Canadian, CHI-X, the Canadian Exchange, which also had three equities markets, so we integrated them, and we went live with a dark pool offering for Goldman back in June. So now we operate a dark pool for Goldman Sachs, and we're looking to kind of expand that offering at this point. >> So you're just getting bigger and bigger. So tell our viewers a little bit how Pentaho fits into this. >> So Pentaho is the engine that kind of does all our analytics behind the scenes at post trade, right. So we do a lot of traditionally TL, where we're doing batch processing. In the back-end we're doing a little bit more with the Hadoop ecosystem leveraging things like EMR, Spark, Presto, that type of stuff, And Pentaho kind of helps blend that stuff together a little bit. We use it for reporting, we do some of the BA, we're actually now looking to have the data Pentaho generates plug in a little bit of Tableau. So, we're looking to expand it and really leverage that data in other ways at this point. Even doing some things more externally, doing more data offerings via Pentaho externally. >> So I got to do a NASDAQ 101 for my 13 year-old. Came up to me the other day and said, "Daddy, what's the NASDAQ index and how does it work?" Well, give us a 20 second answer. >> Michael: On the NASDAQ index? >> Yeah, what's the NASDAQ Index and how does it work? >> Probably the wrong person to answer that one but, the index is generally just a blend of various stocks. So the S&P 500 is a blend of different stocks, much like that the cues, are NASDAQ's equivalent of the S&P, right, so, we use a different algorithm to determine the companies that make up that blend, but it's an index just like at the S&P. >> They're weighted by market cap- >> Michael: Right, yeah. >> And that determines the number at the end- >> Michael: Correct. >> And it goes up and down based on what the stock's index. >> Right, and that's how most people know NASDAQ, right. They see the S&P went up by 5 points, The Dow went down by 3 and the NASDAQ went up by a point, right. But most people don't realize that NASDAQ also operates 27 exchanges worldwide, I think it is now. So, probably a little bit more, maybe closer to 32, but... >> So you mentioned that you're doing a dark pool for Goldman >> Michael: Yes. >> So that's interesting. We were talking off camera about HFT and kind of the old days, and dark pools were criticized at the time. Now Goldman was one of the ones shown to be honest and above board, but what does that mean the dark pool for your business and how does that all tie in? >> Michael: So, dark pools are isolated markets, right, so they don't necessarily interact with the NASDAQ exchange themselves, it's all done within the pool. You interact with only people trading on that pool. What NASDAQ has done is we took our technology and we now host it for Goldman so, we have I-NETs our trading system, so we gave them I-NET, we built all the surrounding solutions, how you manage symbols, how you manage membership. Even the data, we curate their data in the AWS. We do some Pentaho transformations for them. We do some analytics for them. And that's actually going to start expanding, but yeah, we've provided them an entire solution, so now they don't have to manage their own dark pool. And now we're going to look to expand that to other potential clients. >> Dave: So that's NASDAQ as a technology >> Yes. >> Dave: Provider. Very interesting. So I was saying, earlier, the Hong Kong Stock Exchange is basically closing the facility where they house humans, again another example of machines replacing humans. So the joining, well NASDAQ, kind of, but NYSE, London Stock Exchange, Singapore, now Hong Kong... Essentially, electronic trading. So, brings us to the sort of technology underpinnings of NASDAQ. Shere, maybe you can talk a little bit about your role, and paint a picture of the technology infrastructure. >> Yeah so I focus primarily on the financial side of corporate finance. So we leverage Pentaho to do a lot of data integration, allow us to really answer our business questions. So, previously it would take days to put basic reporting together, now you've got it all automated, or we're working towards getting it mostly automated, and it just answer the questions that we need. And no longer use our gut to drive decisions, we're using hard data. And so that's helped us instrumentally in a lot of different places. >> Dave: So, talk more about the data pipeline, where the data's coming from, how you're blending it, and how you're bringing it through the pipeline and operationalizing it. >> Yeah, so we've got a lot of different billing systems, so we integrate companies, and historically we've let them keep their billings systems. So just kind of bring it all together into our core ERP, seeing how quantities...and just getting the data, and just figuring out on the basic side, how much do we make from a certain customer? What are we making from them? What happens in different scenarios if they consolidate, or if they default? And some of the pipeline there is just blending it all together, normalizing the data, making sure it's all in the same format, and then putting it in a format where our executives or business managers can actually make decisions off of it. >> Well you're talking about the decision making process, and you said it's no longer gut, you're using data to drive your decisions, to know which direction is the right direction. How big a change is that, just culturally speaking? How has that changed? >> Yeah, it's huge, at least on our side, it's making us a long more confident in the decisions we're making. We're no longer going in saying, hey this is probably how we should do it. No, the numbers are showing us that this is going to pay off, and we stick to it and look at the hard facts, rather than what do we think is going to happen? >> So, talk a little bit about what you guys are seeing here, and you're doing a lot of speaking here, we were joking earlier, you're kind of losing your voice. You're telling your story, what kind of reactions you getting? Share with us the behind the scenes at the conference. >> I think at this conference you're seeing a lot of people kind of fall in line with similar ideas that we're trying to get to. Taking advantage more instead of your traditional MPPs, or your traditional relational databases, moving more towards this Hadoop ecosystem. Leveraging Spark, Presto, Flume, all these various new technologies that have emerged over the past two to five years, and are now more viable than ever. They're easier to scale, if you look at your traditional MPPs, like we're a big Redshift user, but every time you scale it there's a cost with that, and we don't necessarily need to maintain all that data all the time, so something in the Hadoop ecosystem now lets us maintain that data without all the unnecessary cost. I see a lot of more of that than I did two years ago, a lot more people are following that trend. I think the other interesting trend I've seen this week is this idea of becoming more cloud agnostic. Where do you operate, and how do you store your data should be irrelevant to the data processing, and I think it's going to be a tough nut to crack for Pentaho, or any vendor. But if you can figure out a way to either do some type of cloud parity, where you have support across all your services, but you don't have to know which service you deploy to when you design your pipelines, I think that's going to be huge. I think we're a little ways from that, but that's been a common theme this week as well, both private and your big three cloud providers right now, your Googles, your Azures, and your AWS. >> So when I asked you said cloud agnostic, that's great, good vision and aspiration. The follow up would be, am I correct that you don't see it as data location agnostic, right, you want to bring the cloud model to your data, versus try to force your data into a cloud? Or not necessarily? >> A lot of it I think is being driven by not wanting to be vendor locked in, so they want to have the ability to, and I think this is easier said than done, the ability to move your data to different cloud providers based on pricing or offerings, right, and right now going from AWS to Google to Azure would be a very painful process. So you move petabytes of data across, it's not cost efficient and all the savings you want to realize by moving to maybe a Google in the future, are not going to be realized cause of all the effort it's going to take to get there. >> Dave: We had CERN on earlier, and they were working on that problem... >> Yeah, it's not a trivial problem to solve, but if you can crack that, and you can then say hey I wanna...even if I have a service offering, Like our operating a dark pool for Goldman. We also have a market tech side, where we sell our trading platform and various solutions to other exchanges worldwide. If we can come up with a way to be able to deploy to any cloud provider, even on an on-prem cloud, without having to do a bunch of customizations each time, that would be huge, it would revolutionize what we do. We're, as our own company, starting to look at that, and talking with Pentaho, they're also... are going to eye that as a potential way to go, with abstractions and things like that, but it's going to take some time. >> We're you guys here yesterday for the keynotes? >> Michael: Saw some of the keynotes, yes. >> The big messaging, like every conference that you go to, is be the disruptor, or you're going to get disrupted. We talked earlier off camera... Trading volumes are down, so the way you traditionally did business is changing, and made money is changing. >> Michael: Right. >> We talked earlier about you guys becoming a technology provider, I wonder if you could help us understand that a little bit, from the standpoint of NASDAQ strategy, when we hear your CEOs talk, real visionary, technology driven transformations. >> Yeah, I think Adena's coming in is definitely looking at that as a trend, right? Trading volumes are down, they've been going down, they've kind of stabilized a little bit, and we're stable able to make money in that space, but the problem is there's not a ton of growth. We acquire the ISE, we acquire the CHI-X, we're buying market share at that point. So you increase revenue, but you also increase overhead in that way. And you can only do so many major acquisitions at a time, you can only do how many one billion dollar acquisitions a year before you have to call it a day. And we can look at more strategic, smaller acquisitions for exchanges, but that doesn't necessarily bring you the transformation, the net revenue you're looking for. So what Adena has started to look at is, how do we transform to more of a technology company? We're really good at operating exchanges, how do we take that, and we already have market tech doing it, but how do we make that more scalable, not just to the financial sector, but to your other exchanges, your Ubers or your StubHubs of the world? How do you become a service provider, or a platform as a service for these other companies, to come in and use your tech? So we're looking at how do we rewrite our entire platform, from trading to the back-end, to do things like: Can we deploy to any cloud provider? Can we deploy on-prem? Can we be a little bit more technology agnostic so to speak, and offer these as services, and offer a bunch of microservices, so that if a startup comes up and wants to set up an exchange, they can do it, they can leverage our services, then build whatever other applications they want on top of it. I think that's a transformation we need to go through, I think it's good vision, and I'm looking forward to executing it. It's going to be a couple years before we see the fruits of that labor, but Adena's really doing a great job of coming in, and really driving that innovation, and Brad Peterson as well, our CIO, has really been pushing this vision, and I think it's really going to work out for us, assuming we can execute. >> Well you know what's interesting about that, if I may, is financial services is usually so secretive about their technology, right? But your business, you guys are becoming a technology provider, so you got to face the world and start marketing your capabilities now, and opening about that. It's sort of an interesting change. >> I think you'll see that starting to become more of a thing over the next year or two, as we start actually looking to build out the platform and figure it out. We do market on the market tech side, I mean it's not a small business, but we're more strategic about who we market to, cause we're still targeting your financial exchanges, more internationally than in the U.S., but there's only so many of them, again you have to start looking at rebranding, rebuilding, and rethinking how we think about exchanges in general, and not thinking of them as just a financial thing. >> Well that's what I wanted to get into, because you're talking about this rebranding, and this rebuilding, this transformation, to the backdrop within an industry that is changing rapidly, and we have sort of the threat of legislative reform, perhaps some administrative reforms coming down all the time, so how do you manage that? I mean, those are a lot of pressures there, are you constantly trying to push the envelope right up until any changes take place? Or what would you say Shere and Michael? >> Probably again not the right person to ask about this, but we're definitely trying to stay on top of the cutting edge in innovation and the technologies out there that, whether it be Blockchain, or different types of technologies. I mean we're definitely trying to make sure we're investing in them, while maintaining our core businesses. >> Right, it's trying to find that balance right now of when to make the next step in the technology food chain, and when to balance that with regulatory obligations. And if you look at it, going back to the idea of being able to launch marketplaces, I think what you're ending up seeing over the coming years is your Ubers, your StubHubs, I think they're going to become more regulated at some level. And we're good at operating more regulated markets, so I think that's where we can kind of come in and play a role, and help wade through those regulations a little bit more, and help build software to adhere to those regulations. >> Since you brought up Blockchain, Jamie Dimon craps all over Blockchain, or you know, Bitcoin, and then clarifies his remarks, saying look, technology underneath is here to stay. Thoughts on Blockchain? Obviously Financial Services is looking at it very closely, doing some really advanced stuff, what can you tell us? >> Yeah, I think there's no argument that it's definitely an innovation and a disruptive technology. I think that it's definitely in it's early stages across the board, so we're investing in it where we can, and trying to keep a close eye on it. We think that there's a lot of potential in a lot of different applications. >> As the NASDAQ transforms its business, how does that effect the sort of back-end analytics activity and infrastructure? >> The data is just growing, that's like the biggest challenge we have now. Data that used to be done in Excel, it's just no longer an option, so now in order to get the insights that we used to get just from having a couple people doing Excel transformations, you need to now invest in the infrastructure in the back-end, and so there's a lot that needs to go into building out an infrastructure to be able to ingest the data, and then also having the UI on the front-end, so that the business can actually view it the way they want. >> So skills wise, how's that affecting who you guys are hiring and training? And how's that transformation going? >> Michael: I'll let you go first. >> I think there's definitely, data analytics is a hot field. It's very new, there's definitely a big skills gap in administrative work and in the analytics side. Usually you have people could perform analytical functions just by being administrative or operational, and now it's really, we're investing in analysts, and making sure that we have the right people in place to be able to do these transformations, or pull the data and get the answers that we need from them. >> I mean from the tech side, I think what you're seeing is where we traditionally would just plug a developer in there, whether a Java developer, or an ETL developer, I think what you're seeing now is we're looking to bring more of a business minded data analyst to the tech side, right? So we're looking to bring a data engineer, so to speak, more to the tech side. So we're not looking to hire a traditional four year Computer Science degree, or Software Engineering degree, you're looking for a different breed of person, cause quite honestly because you're traditional Java dev. or C++ developer, they're not skilled or geared towards data. And when we've tried to plug that paradigm in, it just doesn't really work, so we're looking now to hiring more of an analyst, but someone who's a little bit more techie as well. They still need to have those skills to do some level of coding, and what we are finding is that skill gap is still very much... There's a gap there. There's a huge gap. And I think it's closing, but- >> And as you have to fund those for the new areas, I presume, like many companies in your business, you're trying to move away from the sort of undifferentiated low-level infrastructure deployment hassles, and the IT labor costs there, especially as we move to the cloud, presumably, so is that shift palpable? I mean, can you see that going on? >> Yeah, I think we made a lot of progress over the past couple years in doing that. We do more one button deployments, where the operation cost is a lot lower, a lot more automation around alerting, around when things go wrong, so there's not necessarily a human being sitting there watching a computer. We've invested a lot in that area to kind of reduce the costs, and make the experience better for our end user. And even from a development side, the cost of a new application is a lot less every time you have to do a release. The question is, how do you balance that with the regulations, and make sure you still have a good process in place. The idea of putting single button deployments in place is a great one, but you still have to balance that with making sure that what you push to productions been tested, well defined, and it meets the need, and you're not just arbitrarily throwing things out there. So we're still trying to hit that balance a little bit, it's more on the back-end side. The trading system is not quite there for obvious reasons, we're way more protective of what goes out there, then surrounding it a lot of the times, but I can see a future where, again going back to this idea of transforming our business, where you can stand up and do an exchange with the click of a button. I think that's a trend we're looking at. >> Rebecca: It's not too far in the future. >> No, I don't think it is. >> Last question, Pentaho report card. What are they doing really well? What do you want to see them do better? >> I think they continue to focus in the right areas, focusing more on the data processing side, and with the big data technologies, trying to fill that gap in the big data, and be the layer that you don't have to tie yourself to ike vCloud Air or MapR, you can kind of be a little bit more plug and play. I think they still need to do some improvements on there visualizations in their front-ends. I think they've been so much more focused on the data processing, that part of it, that the visualization's kind of lacked behind, so I think they need to put a little more focus into that, but all in all, they're an A, and we've been extremely happy with them as a software provider. >> Great. >> Shere: I think the visualization part is the part that allows people to understand that value being created at Pentaho. So I think being able to maybe improve a little bit on the visualization could go a far way. >> Michael, Shere, it's been so much fun having you on theCube, and having this conversation, keep that bull market coming please, do whatever you can. >> We'll do our best. >> I'm Rebecca Knight. We are here at PentahoWorld, sponsored by Hitachi Vantara. For Dave Vellante, we will have more from theCube in just a little bit.