(upbeat music) >> Hello, everyone; I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE NEWS and host of theCUBE, and welcome to our SiliconANGLE NEWS MWC NEWS UPDATE in Barcelona where MWC is the premier event for the cloud telecommunication industry, and in the news here is Red Hat, Red Hat announcing a collaboration with NVIDIA, Samsung and Arm on Efficient Open Networks. Red Hat announced updates across various fields including advanced 5G telecommunications cloud, industrial edge, artificial intelligence, and radio access networks, RAN, and Efficiency. Red Hat's enterprise Kubernetes platform, OpenShift, has added support for NVIDIA's converged accelerators and aerial SDK facilitating RAND deployments on industry standard service across hybrid and multicloud platforms. This composable infrastructure enables telecom firms to support heavier compute demands for edge computing, AI, private 5G, and more, and just also helps network operators adopt open architectures, allowing them to choose non-proprietary components from multiple suppliers. In addition to the NVIDIA collaboration, Red Hat is working with Samsung to offer a new vRAN solution for service providers to better manage their open RAN networks. They're also working with UK chip designer, Arm, to create new networking solutions for energy efficient Red Hat Open Source Kubernetes-based Efficient Power Level Exporter project, or Kepler, has been donated to the open Cloud Native Compute Foundation, allowing enterprise to better understand their cloud native workloads and power consumptions. Kepler can also help in the development of sustainable software by creating less power hungry applications. Again, Red Hat continuing to provide OpenSource, OpenRAN, and contributing an open source project to the CNCF, continuing to create innovation for developers, and, of course, Red Hat knows what, a lot about operating systems and the telco could be the next frontier. That's SiliconANGLE NEWS. I'm John Furrier; thanks for watching. (monotone music)

(upbeat music) >> Okay, I'm back. I'm John Furrier with theCube. We're here in the middle of the action at Mobile World Congress at Cloud City is where the action is. Danielle Royston and Telco DR. Digital disruption here happening. This next interview I did with Casey Choi, the Executive Vice President at Samsung. I did this remotely. He couldn't be here in person. We wanted to bring him in for a conversation. I had a chance to record this with him. He talks about the intelligent Human Edge or Industry 4.0. It was about Edge computing, Samsung as a leader. Obviously we know what they do. They're part of this IOT revolution, Casey Choi, brilliant executive I really enjoyed my conversation. Take a listen. (upbeat music) Welcome to theCube's coverage of Mobile World Congress, 2021. I'm John Furrier host of theCube. We're here with Cube alumni, Casey Choi's Executive Vice President and GM of the Global Mobile B2B Team, Communications Team at Samsung. Casey, great to see you. Thank you for coming off for the special Remote Mobile World Congress. We're here in person, but also hybrid event. We got a lot of remote interviews. Thank you for taking the time to speak with me. >> John. Great to see you. Great as always to be with you and great to be at least here, virtually with the team and in Barcelona from WC. >> You know, in Samsung, we think about the edge. You are leading a team that's driving this innovation. We've talked in the past about Industry 4.0, but the innovation at the intelligent edge, human edge is a big part of it, with 5G. It's just another G, but it's not just another G you got to have a backbone. You got to have a back haul. You got to have an interconnection. You have commercial, not just consumer technology. So the edge is becoming both this human and device commercial environment. So the industry is quickly moving to this. You call it the 4.0 trend. What do you see happening? This is a clear change over the Telco is not what it used to be. Change is coming fast. A lot of disruption, what's your view? >> Yeah, I think we see a number of things done. And certainly from our perspective, which is, I think we've got somewhat of a unique view on this because of our huge focus really in consumer use and attitudes. And certainly it's been informed by what we've seen, what we've all collectively seen over the last year and a half or so, and are still seeing today. And I think one of the things that we're certainly experiencing is I think the edge is it's expanding further out. I think it's also getting more tightly coupled in many respects to the human factor. And it's not just a set of billions of discrete sensors anymore. And I think the evolution of our thinking around this has changed quite a bit from the IOT Version One variant of this. We put more of what I would call billions of these things, communicating all kinds of information, either to the cloud or the data centers and doing it in a very voluminous way. And what we're saying is with the advent of more the human to machine interface, and certainly the capabilities that we're saying both on the network and the device side, it's really redefining how we're thinking about edge. And certainly here at Samsung and with some of our partners, and we're starting to call this more of the intelligent human edge, where the human factor really begins to play a big role in how we're defining the Internet Of Things. And those things include really people. And this is how we're looking at it. >> I love the theme, the human edge, I think that's very relevant. I want to get a human aspect of here tied into the industry side, because as we emerge from the pandemic and move to a broader economic recovery, you see the psychology of the industry where cloud is one of the shining examples of what the pandemic highlighted cloud speed, cloud agility. And now you're seeing with openness in the Teleco industry, that cloud is coming in, open cloud interoperability. So coming out of the pandemic, cloud is the theme is driving an economic recovery, which is driving the psychology of we're back to real life, we're back to business, but it's not business as usual. The fashion is changing. The attitudes are changing. You mentioned that, and now the disruption of how cloud will be implemented. And it seems to be Telco is where these edge and cloud are just completely radically changing, what was once a kind of a slow moving Telco space. So how do you see the partnerships and coming out of the pandemic, some of the response of cloud impact, cloud technology, public cloud impact on this new Telcom? >> Yeah. Let me try to unpack that a little bit. I think we see two dimensions on this, certainly on the carrier side, the operator's side of the equation, we're certainly partnered with everybody across the globe on that. Certainly there's been a definitive impact around software defined everything, right? So, and this has been accelerated really by the standards that have started to develop around 5G. And even now there's a lot of discussion and I'm sure there'll be a lot of it around WMC about 6G and what is happening there. But I think with the advent of things like O-RAN for example, and some of the activity that we're seeing really around NEC type solutions and opportunities, the traditional role of the carrier and the operator is evolving and has to evolve, right? It is now much more aligned with the provision of these types of services that are very different from the type of data or voice services that we've seen in the past. So certainly we're seeing that transition. The second big transition is really around the notion of hybridity. Now we've been talking about this now in the industry for a while, but I think it's really starting to take firm root the idea of not only multiple clouds, but clouds that are deployed either on prem or certainly, available as a service in its various forms. So I think that combination along with the advances that we're seeing in the technology, and this was both on the connectivity side. So certainly around the ultra reliable, low latency communications, what we're seeing with things like slicing, for example, starting to take root as well as frankly, the devices themselves are getting that much more powerful and compact. This is what we're saying with SOC technologies is what we're seeing with the functions being moved more and more to on device capability. So I think about hybrid, I mean, in my past to think about it more as a small data center. How do you compact it, move it out to somewhere else. Now we're thinking about it more in terms of the type of processing capability that you can put really in the hands of the human or hands of the device. And at that point, you really start to get different use cases, start to emerge from that. So this is how we're thinking about this extension and what I'm talking about more as, an expansion on the edge, further out. >> I love is it splicing or slicing, what's the term? Slicing is the technology? >> Slicing, network slicing. >> Slicing, not splicing cable. >> Yeah. >> Slicing. >> Not splicing cable, no. >> Okay so this come up a lot, so splicing kind of points to this end to end, workflows. You look at some of the modern development, the frameworks of successful, you're seeing these multifunctional teams kind of having an end to end visibility into the modern application workflow from CIC pipeline, whatever. Now, if you take the concept of O-RAN you mentioned Open Radio Access Networks, this kind of brings up this idea of interoperability, because if you're going to have end to end and you add edge to it, you have to have the ability to watch something go end to end, but it's never been like that in the past because you had to traverse multiple networks. So this becomes kind of this hybrid a little bit deeper. Can you share how you see that and how Samsung's working with folks and how you guys are addressing this because you can be at the edge, but ultimately you've got to integrate. So you've got openness, you've got the idea of interoperability issues, and you ultimately have to move around and work with other networks, other clouds and other systems. This is not, it's not always like that. So can you share how this is evolving and how real this is and what is your view on it. >> Yeah, our thinking on this. I mean, let me start by maybe tackling this in a little bit of a different angle. One of the things that we see as one of the barriers around interoperability has really been more on the application side of the equation. And this is actually the third component in making all of this work. And let me just be very clear in what I'm saying here, I think in terms of mobile architectures and really Edge architectures, it has been one of the last bastions, if you will of closed architectures, there've been very much what I would call purpose-built architectures at the edge. Certainly that's been driven by things like the industrial side coming together with more of the commercial side of the equation, but we think it's time really to extend the interoperability of what we are seeing really on the IT side of the equation and really driven by cloud native. This was really in the area of containers. It's in the area of microservices, it's in the area of cloud native development. And if we're really talking about this, we really need to extend that interoperability from the application point of view on the data point of view, really to the end point. And this is where some of the work that we're doing, and we really embarked on in earnest last year with Red Hat and IBM, and with VMware for example, in really opening up that edge architecture to really the open source community, as well as really to the microservices architectures that we have now seen propagate down from the cloud into hybrid architecture. So this has been really one of the key focus areas for us. The network interoperability has really been driven by the standards that we've seen and that have been really adopted by the industry. And when it comes to, for example 5G standards. what we've been more focused on quite honestly, is the interoperability on the application and data side. And we think that by extending, if you will, that write once run many type concepts down into the edge and into the device, that this is going to open up really a wealth of opportunity for us on the application and on the data side. >> That's awesome, I love the openness, love the innovation you guys are doing. I think that's where the action is and that's where the growth is going to be. I do have to ask you how you see edge computing in the IOT era in terms of security. Are we more vulnerable because of it now? And how are you guys addressing the issue of security and data privacy at the edge? What's your opinion on that? What's Samsung doing? >> I mean, we just have to look at the news today, it's obvious that we are more vulnerable, right? There's no doubt that points of vulnerability are being exposed and they're probably being exposed in now industrial areas, right? Certainly with what we've seen, just even recently with some of the attacks that, that have occurred. So a couple of things there, number one, we are relying very heavily on our long history around establishing root of trust in kind of zero trust environments. We've had our Knox platform as an example, we just celebrated, in fact, our 10th year of the product. In fact, it was announced at MWC back about 10 years ago. So this is something that, that we're celebrating, it's an anniversary. Our belief on this is that we really need to ensure that we maintain a hardware-based route across when it comes to the edge. We can't only rely upon software protection at that layer. We can't naturally rely upon some of the network protections that are there. So, we've shipped about 3 billion devices with our Knox Security Suite over the last 10 years. And this is something that we're relying very heavily on. Not only for again, that hardware based root of process. So one of the key solutions, there's our Knox Vault product, which we just released a few months back. This is really a safe within a safe concept, really ensuring that the biometric password and other user data is protected. It's really what drives some of our strategy around making sure that we rely upon something that protects all of the back doors that are resident, not only at the software layer, but at the hardware layer as well. And then management is the other key piece of this, security without the ability of managing these thousands to millions of devices is really somewhat compromised. So we've extended a lot of our Knox management capability at our device level really to address some of those particular attributes, as well as these fleets become more prominent. And they start to take on workloads that are more critical to IOT type workloads. >> Casey, great to have you on. Your insight's awesome. Love what you're doing at Samsung. And again, you're a leader, you've been there, you've seen those cycles of innovation. I have to ask you my final question for you is a personal one and a professional one. The last Mobile World Congress was 2019. In person, last year was canceled a lot's happened in the industry since 20 something months ago. Now we're going to be in person, a lot of hybrid still remotely, but there'll be people in person. The world's changed. What is the big change in the Telco, Telco Cloud, Telco Edge, what's happened in these 20 plus months since the last Mobile World Congress that people should pay attention to? What's the most important thing in your mind? >> Most important? Thank God John. You're putting me on the spot here, right? I think it's wisdom to be quite honest with you. I mean, we've certainly all collectively learned a lot in terms of user patterns and what people need and want. And I hope to think that collective wisdom is going to be a key part of how we drive this going forward. And then if I can just pick one more, I would say re-invention, I think what we're starting to see is that coming out of, again from 2019 to what we're seeing now, we do see this opportunity reinventing and rethinking. And I think that's the difference. And the pace of that is going to really dictate how we look at this and how we collectively solve these challenges. So I hope to think we're wiser and that we're more imaginative coming out of this. And again after being in this industry for 30 years, we've not seen the types of things that we've seen over the last couple. So I hope to think that this is a pivot point for all of us. >> Well, Samsung is certainly a leader in many areas and great to see you on theCube here and the theme in your talks around intelligence, human edge innovation, open. This is a force that's happening. And I think the big change, as you said, the wisdom combined with a reinvention is happening and it's going to be very interesting ride, should be fun to work on. >> It will be John and I thank you for our friendship and our relationship over the years. It's always great to see you and to be with you. And again, we're very optimistic as we always have, coming out of this And again, thanks for the time and have a great MWC. >> You too, Casey Choi, Executive Vice President General Manager of the Global Mobile Business to Business Unit Commercial Unit at Samsung. This is theCube's coverage of Mobile World Congress. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. Okay. We're back here. That was Casey Choi. Talk about wisdom, collective wisdom coming out of the pandemic. Great friend of theCube, great friend of the industry doing great work there. Casey Choi. Like we are doing here on the ground at Mobile World Congress in Cloud City, as well as Adam and the team in the studio. So back to you, Adam and team.

>> Voiceover: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021, brought to you by IBM. >> Hello and welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. I'm excited to have this next guest, CUBE alumni, K.C. Choi, Corporate EVP, Executive Vice President and General Manager at Samsung Mobile the B2B/B2G Team. K.C., great to see you, how you've been? >> John, it is wonderful to see you and it's been way too long. Great to be back on theCUBE with you looking forward to our conversation and I hope you're safe. >> Yeah and same to you. Great to see you, I'm so excited. One of the things I've really admired about you and our conversations in the past is you've always had your finger on the pulse of the waves and you're always involved with some really great engineering work. And I want to dig into this now because your role is really hitting the industry for that kind of wave which is the confluence of tech, media, entertainment, every vertical, big data, IOT and with the distributed computing now called the Cloud and edge. It really sets the table for what is now going to be the preferred architecture probably for the next 20 plus years. So give us your view on how you see the changing landscape in the industry. >> Yeah, I think you covered all of the major seismic shifts that are happening here. And then as we've all experienced over the last, over a year with the COVID pandemic, that's actually accelerated a lot of the thinking around edge. We've certainly seen news cases proliferate whether it be in things such as healthcare, manufacturing's also taken I think, a real hard look at the applicability of these types of solutions. We've seen things like, for example 5G pickup in these industrial applications as the industrial companies have thought about worker safety, as they've thought about automation, as they thought about utilizing more protocols, as well as bringing these technologies and processes together in a way that will help to reinvent their particular economic base, as well as the learnings that we've seen over the last year, coming from these new safety protocols as well as the need for now with the economies is picking back up, the need for productivity, as well as greater efficiencies coming from these types of solutions. So we've seen that confluence happen. And then certainly on our end, as our network connectivity has become much stronger, lower latency, as well as the endpoint capabilities have increased dramatically over the last few years, as SOC and others have taken root, we've seen the edge, if you will, start be more extreme, in the sense that it's pushing further and further out beyond what we originally envisioned the edge to be. >> And the SOC trend actually highlights that it's not so much about Moore's law as it is more about more chips, more performance. If you look at actual performance, Dave Vellante just put out a report on this, where there's actually more performance now than ever before coming in from the combined energy and combined processing power out there. So it's super, super amazing what you can do at the edge. Before we get into the edge, I want to just clarify what is your new role there? I mean, Samsung is known for obviously the B2C with the phones and everything else, but you have a specific focus, what is your main focus there? >> Yeah, our mission's pretty straightforward. And as everyone knows, Samsung is a powerhouse consumer electronics company. We pride ourselves in obviously our position in that, but we also have a very significant role really in the business to business and in the government and financial services sector space with our mobile devices, as well as with our Knox security platform solution and device management platform. We actually provide a large portion of the security devices for governments worldwide as well as the Knox platform that is built into the majority of our, both, consumer as well as business devices that really allows for that, if you will, that next protective layer on top of the Android OS that allows for things such as, personal and professional profiles. So we produce those solutions out of my team as well as we provide really the go-to-market support, as well as the RnD support for that platform, including an area that's growing rapidly for us which is in the rugged category, which is one of the key products that we're using for some of these edge applications that we'll be talking about. >> Great, let's jump into that. What are you guys doing specifically in the edge computing space? Let's dig into it. >> Yeah, I think maybe the place to start on that is we're really reenvisioning what the edge is. And I mentioned a little earlier that with what's occurring in the performance profile and really the functional profile, what is being produced at the device level. We're talking about in the last few years, the fidelity and the capabilities are in, what I would call the computer class type functions, as well as obviously mobile devices have always been communication gateways for a number of functions, whether they be videos or photos. They're multisensory in nature. And as this has become more practical and the connective tissue has gotten there with 5G as well as all kinds of other fast low latency communications capabilities and Wi-Fi 6, UWB, included within that. What we're finding is that the use case to bring applications especially cloud native and container native applications to these devices to be augmenting the endpoint user, the frontline worker, really the knowledge worker and moving that capability further away from, if you will, an extension to cloud services as well as MEC type services, this is where we see it going. And really what we're trying to work on with IBM and with Red Hat is how do we continue to fortify this, not only from an actual processing AI/ML capability, but also equip these devices so that they can fully participate as part of a multi-hybrid cloud architecture. The endpoint is really one of the last bastions where we have not conquered bringing cloud first container native applications really to that point. And we believe the time is right because of the capabilities that are there along with, again, the connectivity that is becoming much more ubiquitous now to allow for that type of architecture to exist. And we're starting to call this the intelligent human edge as well. We think that the applications that we'll see for this are ones that will make the human operator more productive, safer, certainly more efficient. And we think that this augmentation of that frontline worker is an area that we are, put our stakes on in terms of pioneering, just because of again, our experience in that mobility space and in that consumer space. >> That's great you brought up Red Hat and IBM. Obviously Red Hat was bought by IBM. Arvin, the CEO who I interviewed in 2019 in theCUBE at Red Hat summit, ironically, a couple months later, buys the company and a smile on his face. He likes cloud. >> K.C.: Maybe you had something to do with that, John. >> No, he wanted to, I could see he wanted to say it, but he loves the cloud. Everyone who knows Arvin knows that he's into the cloud in a new way. And this edge piece that you mentioned that you're using Red Hat and IBM for hybrid, this is what the new operating system is going to look like. It's a completely distributed system and the edge is just part of that operating model. This is what their vision is, which I love by the way. I think that redefines what that is. Are you saying that you guys are working with Red Hat and IBM for that hybrid edge piece? How does that work? Can you take me through that? >> Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean, obviously the ecosystem is bigger than that, but IBM and Red Hat really bring the expertise really around container ecosystems, certainly the work that they have done in terms a multi hybrid cloud, certainly the work that OpenShift has brought forward in terms of, you know, multi-platform capability. We really love the concept of develop bonds run, any sort of a construct. And when you think about it, the mobile platforms specifically, you know, ours, as well as others, has really been that last baskin of areas where more of the development is on a particular platform, it's more bespoke. We think that by broaching this, you know in conjunction with IBM and Red Hat this is going to give us the ability to have these device architectures become a full voting member, if you will, of that hybrid cloud architecture and of that microservice container architecture that is becoming much more prevalent. So this is really the work that we're doing. And then obviously we're working at a vertical level to see where are the applicable use cases in places such as the design studio we have in Singapore, where with the Singaporean government we're looking at really bringing a Renaissance to industry 4.0 type applications, smart factory automation, public safety, these areas where we believe that this type of architecture can be deployed. >> That's awesome. And I totally believe that, you know the edge is still going to be pushed farther and further out, honestly, having that open standards of hybrid. So I got to ask you, on the edge just while I got you here, you know, one of the things that you see clearly as the industrial edge, it's called, factories and whatnot. You've mentioned some of those. And then you've got the human piece, which is like people have phones and wearables and other things are going to be happening. So as you start to have those end points, which are then going to be connected into a distributed network, AKA a hybrid cloud, soon to be multiple clouds. But that's the sub system within the cloud construct. The complaint has been, not complaint, but the observation has been and complaint, if you look at it that the edge is limited by power and connectivity, okay. These are like key basic concepts. How is the connectivity option? I know 5G is coming, it's here, we're seeing it being deployed. We got people saying, hey, this is our business application. Clearly got higher throughput, not as much range. Give us your take on this because this becomes important, obviously, power is battery that is driven, it's getting better and better and power is not really that much of a problem, but connectivity seems to be, what's your vision of this? >> Yeah and you know, there's a lot of ways to approach that. I will tell you on the industrial side, at least in some of the deployments and PLCs that we've been involved in over the last a year or two years, connectivity is an issue. And a lot of it has to do with the infrastructure that is available in many of these plants or factories, or points of distribution, they're not necessarily leading edge, in many cases we're dealing with what I would call sub par connectivity. It's not like an office complex where you may have state-of-the-art Wi-Fi capability or 10 gig capability or whatever it might be. So what we've found on that is it requires actually quite a bit of work, in terms of fine tuning, both, on the the network infrastructure side, whatever that might be or we've also found that on the device side, the programmability of the of the device, in terms of tuning it for whatever connective environment would be there. And we've worked with everything from, you know, Bluetooth, UWB to Wi-Fi 6 and everything in between and in many cases or multiple protocols or connectivity methods that are there. So, you know, one thing we've learned is that you can't necessarily assume that in a, especially in a factory environment that those conditions are going to allow for consistency. So you have to engineer around that, you know, in some of the things that we've done are really around making sure that we've got deployable programmability at the device as well as board dynamic network tuning capabilities that will allow for better connectivity and to handle things such as consistency. >> All right, K.C., great insight. Final question for you, why Samsung and IBM? What's the bottom line? >> Yeah, I think the bottom line is really straightforward. I mean, we've had a 30 year history of working together, you know, we've been mutual customers to each other. We do a lot of work for IBM, in regards to foundry type services and semiconductor services. And that we work very closely with them over many years on applications. So number one, there's been a natural relationship, just in the services that we provided to each other. But as we look at really the go-to-market, I mean, IBM brings so much credibility from a vertical market perspective. There's a trusted advisor type status that I think is a very profound and it's been built over many years, you know, delivering on the promises. And on our end, I think what we bring is really this cycle time that is driven by our passion in the consumer space. And when we start to apply that into more of these vertical industrial, you know, vertical sectors, I think that combination is very powerful. The services piece obviously comes into play with IBM. And then really, the Red Hat piece of this really just puts the icing on the cake with really the the market leadership in hybrid cloud and in the container native architecture, so it's just a very powerful combo and the cooperation there has been strong and we continue to look forward to delivering more through that partnership. >> K.C., great to see you, great thing to hear. You know, you got scalable infrastructure, you got modern applications, got the edge, all hybrid. Great partnership. K.C. Choi, Corporate Executive Vice President and General Manager of Samsung Mobile B2B Team. Great to see you and congratulations on your mission and it's an exciting project. Thanks for coming on theCUBE and sharing. >> Great to see you, John, take care of yourself and looking forward to seeing you again. >> Okay, this is theCUBE's coverage IBM Think 2021. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (soft upbeat music) (melodious music)

>> Announcer: From Burlingame, California, it's theCUBE, covering Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019. Brought to you by Sumo Logic. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here, with theCUBE. We're at Sumo Logic Illuminate at the Hyatt Regency San Francisco Airport. About 800 people, 900 people, packed house in the keynote earlier this afternoon, really interesting space. And we're excited to have our next guest, kind of on the cutting edge of the IoT space on the consumer side. And he's Robert Parker, the CTO of Samsung SmartThings. Robert, great to see you. >> Hi, great to be here. >> Absolutely, so, before we get into the depth of the conversation, a little bit of a background on SmartThings. I was doing some research, getting ready for this, and the fact that it started as a Kickstarter a long time ago, not that long ago, and now is part of Samsung, a global electronics giant, what a fun adventure. >> Absolutely, I think it's been one of these things where it's great to be something where it's community-driven to begin with. So, Kickstarter was a big part of our launch, and we were one of the biggest Kickstarter launches at the time, really powered by our community around the website and early users. We got a lot of interest in IoT, and then moved on to the next stage of the vision, which is sort of encompassing all devices. And so, that meant we have more than 2,000 different Samsung devices on the platform now, which really allowed devices to talk to each other in ways that are really exciting, and that breadth has been a really great thing to be part of. >> Right, it's really funny, we went to the Samsung Developer Conference a couple years ago, and it was funny to see the living room guys fighting with the kitchen guys as to, what was the center? Is it the TV, or is it the refrigerator? Or is the the washing machine, for that bit? And Samsung's really got a foot in all those places. >> Absolutely, this is one of the things that the SmartThing platform has really enabled Samsung to transition across, as then it's no longer a conversation with the washing machine person or the dryer. All the devices are part of the SmartThings cloud. The SmartThings cloud is a one way that you can talk to Samsung devices, and it's an open ecosystem. So, it's not just Samsung devices, we're equally comfortable with manufacturers, any manufacturer, bringing those devices because home is a multi-vendor environment. You are not going to have all of your home from any one vendor. >> Right. >> And that's been one of the exciting parts of the vision, is that's been part, the open ecosystem has been something that's been part of the SmartThings story forever. To really immortalize that in a platform for Samsung has been a great transition. >> Right, so we're here at Sumo Logic Illuminate, and in preparing for this, I saw an interview with you, you made a really interesting comment. You said that we are a pervasive user of Sumo Logic, and then you said 90% of the team are using Sumo Logic. It's fascinating to me, because I think a lot of companies are chasing innovation, and I think one of the ways to get innovation is you enable more people to have more access to more data, and the tools to actually operate that data so that they can do their jobs and find cool ways to make improvements that aren't necessarily coming from the top down. It sounds like you guys have addressed that philosophy wholeheartedly. >> So, we absolutely have addressed it wholeheartedly, I think there was a lot of luck involved, and I wanted to sort of describe it, is that one of the things that worked well for us is people were excited to use Sumo more and more. They were more excited to see what they could do with the tool, what insights they could get, and so, you'd see your neighbor looking at it, and they'd look at a dashboard and they'd say, hey, can I do a little bit of that? And so much so, in the last year, we've seen a lot of unplanned value come out. So, a third of the value we got out of the Sumo in the past year was unplanned. It was things people didn't, processes they didn't know they would improve that really just came from this groundswell, from what I would call the community. And I think that's where you get, that unlocks a lot of the potential, because you really can't do things from sort of the planned high level. You really need people actively engaged and doing stuff you wouldn't expect. >> That's great. So, I want to talk a little bit about security. Security's a big topic here, it's a topic everywhere we go. And now, with connected devices, and connected keys, and connected doorbells, it seems like, oh, here we go again, and there's this constant talk that security's got to be baked in throughout the entire process. How are you guys dealing with security? It's obviously got to be right at the top of mind in terms of priorities while you're still connecting the sprinklers-- >> No, absolutely. >> And the thermostat and everything else. >> Security and privacy are both critical. I link in privacy even though you didn't ask about it, because, as you think about devices like cameras and things like this, privacy is top of mind. Also, in terms of regulation like GDPR. And so, because of that, we're really looking at both cases, the challenge for both security and privacy is, it really cuts through your whole organization and every process, and by the way, every process that every partner at the organization has, because we can have something that could be exploited from an attack through a customer service representative, that could be a person in the customer service organization, it could be how someone social engineered that. And so, what we've really needed is this kind of continuous intelligence that can span all of these processes, because in something like security, you're as good as your weakest process. And that doesn't mean that we don't focus on all the things that you talked about. We're industry-leading from a device perspective to have hardware baked-in keys and do things in the manufacturing process that lead to something that could be as secure as anything, but that's really the secret of using a lot of the continuous intelligence tools like Sumo, is that all of these could-bes aren't enough. You have to bring it together by having the intelligence that spans those processes to make sure that all of them are elevated, because at the end of the day, a security attack is going to attack your weakest thing, not your strongest thing. >> Right, so one of the other topics here that's talked about is this exponential growth of data, and you guys are part of the problem, 'cause now we got sensors, and light switches, and all these other things that are kickin' off data that, before, we weren't monitoring. And so, from an execution point of view at the company, when you've got so much data that you need to turn into information, and then actionable insight, you said Sumo's got some unique characteristics that allow you guys to get more leverage out of that platform. I wonder if you could dig into that a little bit more. >> And I'd like to reframe the data discussion a little bit, because a lot of people look at it as a problem, and I want to really talk about the opportunity side. So, part of that goes to our story, where we started off at Kickstarter with a few thousand users. We have over 50 million active users now. >> Jeff: 50 million? >> 50 million, our Android application in the Google Play Store had been been downloaded around 200 million times, so it gives you some idea of that size and scope. So, the data is an opportunity. There's an opportunity to build a customer base, to excite people, and to manage the processes that do that. And what's great now is that the availability of this data means that you can do it in more ways than you ever could before. The problem is, you need a tool that brings this together to be able to do that, and doing that well is difficult. Difficult both on the teams, and difficult because of the size, scope, and complexity of the systems because of the data that you mentioned. But the reason you want to do it is so that you can cross the chasm in terms of this opportunity. And more and more companies have this opportunity out in front of them. One of the things that's been really exciting about the cloud is it sort of democratized the entry point, but that wasn't good enough. Just because you could get in the game with three people, it's like making a, you can make a application in a mobile application store, either on Google's or on Apple's, really easily, that gets you in there. What you really need to do is manage the intelligence that goes from that, and for us, it's been really exciting to be able to take our decisions and make them data-driven. And we can do that by this explosion of data because it is there. >> Right, and the data is good, and I think we see data as an asset, it hasn't really hit balance sheets officially yet, but I think you see it in the valuations of companies like Google, and Facebook, and Amazon, right, who obviously have these crazy, giant multiples of their revenue, one, because they're growing, but two, because they have so much data. So, the market's kind of valuing that data without explicitly calling it out as a line item on the balance sheet. That said, not all data has the same value, not all data needs to be treated the same. And so, it really opens up an opportunity to say how do you tier it? So, you don't want to get, y'know, spend a ton of money on a piece of data and a big, fat stream that somebody leaves open on Amazon accidentally, suddenly have a big bill, and that maybe wasn't the most valuable, so. >> I'd actually double down on what you said, because for a typical company, one of the things that's also been true of the mega-scale companies that you pointed out with, is there's a lot of uniformity in their data. So, a company like Amazon, they have customer orders and they've got orders at this massive scale. A typical company doesn't look like that. Their data spread is more fragmented, smaller scale, and so, because of that, they want to make different decisions. And this is the same thing that has already happened in the storage area. People are really comfortable with storage that they're going to have in either disaster recovery, or long-term storage, and they want a very low-cost footprint around that. They've got their hot data, and they're much more willing to have that data managed differently, and at a higher cost rate, because it's much more valuable. We're looking for tools that span that, not just in storage, but in the ingestion, and the management, and the querying of that data, because, like you said, for most businesses, a lot of data is infrequently looked at, or looked at in response to a situation, so I'll never know which 10% of the data will be looked at. It'll be based on, oh, I got audited, or some other business event that happens. And so, this is one of the keys things that businesses are now struggling with. One of them is that, hey, they want to adopt these practices to become modern, or more modernized, but the second one is, to really be able to tier the data because they couldn't treat all the data as if it's hot data, just like they already figured that out for storage. >> Right, it's pretty interesting, 'cause it's been going on for storage forever, and we really saw it, I think, with the rise of Flash, which was super-high quality but super-expensive in the early days, that's coming down. And then, at the other end, we have the Glacier Storage and the cold storage just put it away. I want to get your last thoughts, last answer, Robert. As you look forward, I can't believe we're already in middle of September of 2019, it's fascinating to me that time flies so fast, but as you look forward, what are some of your priorities over the next year or so? How are you guys moving the ball down the field? >> One of the things that we're looking at was the data problem that you were talking about, if, really looking at our infrequent data, and being able to manage that effectively, both from the types of insights that we can get from that, so a lot of this starts to be better usage of machine learning, pattern recognition, AI, and so that we can, the ideal situation for us in that type of data is it got touched once, it got looked at once, and then we could understand how to action it later, that deferred action. And then, how to trigger that deferred action, as well as the tiering that we sort of talked about, that all data's not-- >> Created equal. >> Created equally, and so both those things are happening. Just to put some numbers on this, as why, is that we have 150 terabytes or so of data that is somewhat interesting to our business generated on a daily basis. >> 150 terabytes a day? >> 150 terabytes a day. >> That's interesting, that's the good stuff. >> And out of that, I'd say 10 terabytes is really actionable. And so, that gives you an idea. The other part is how that's growing, where a year ago, we would've been at maybe 60 terabytes of what I would've called this interesting data, and maybe five terabytes of immediately actionable. And so, this is following that, where that's exponentially growing, and it's a big number, so that's what we really think about. >> So, you scared? Because those curves, those curves get steep. >> It's the same way, we look at it as a huge opportunity, so what will happen is, either people will create value out of that for customers, in which case, actually, the opportunity, because it's at such a scale, it will be great for everyone, or, number two, it just becomes noise. And so, it isn't really something to get scared of, because worst case is, it became noise to you. We really want to be one of those people who are getting value out of it, and see the business growth and the consumer value growth out of that. I'm pretty optimistic that we'll be able to do it, because we really, if I look back three, four, years, we've just been able to figure out a way, and I think it will continue to do that. >> All right, well, Robert, thanks for taking a few minutes of your time and sharing the story, it's a great story. >> Thank you, appreciate being here. >> All right, he's Robert, I'm Jeff, you're watching theCUBE. We're at Sumo Logic Illuminate 2019. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time.

>> from Burlingame, California It's the Cube covering Suma logic Illuminate 2019. Brought to you by Sumer Logic >> Hey, welcome back already, Jeffrey Here with the Cube Worth Suma >> logic illuminated the higher Regency San Francisco airport. About 800 people, 900 people packed house in the keynote earlier this afternoon. Really interesting space, and we're excited to have our next guest >> kind of on the cutting edge >> of the I o T space on the consumer side. And he's Robert Parker, the CTO of Sand Samsung. Smart things, Robert. Great to see you. >> Great to be here. >> Absolutely so before we get into >> the kind of the depth of the conversation, a little bit of a background on smart things. I was doing some research getting ready for this and the fact that it started as a kickstarter a long time ago, not that long ago, and now is part of Samsung, a global electronics giants. What a fun adventure. >> Absolutely. I think it's been one of these things where it's great to be something where it's community driven to begin with, so kick start. It was a big part of our launch, and we were one of the biggest kicks are launches at the time. Uh, really powered by our community around the website and early users. We got a lot of interest in I O. T. And then moved on to the next stage of the vision, which is sort of encompassing all devices. And so that meant we have more than 2000 different Samsung devices on the platform now, which really allow devices to talk to each other in ways that are really exciting. And that breath has been really great thing to be part of >> right. It's really funny. We went to the Samsung Developer conference a couple of years ago. It was funny to see the the living room guys fighting with the kitchen guys, you know, What was >> the centers that the TV or is it >> the fridge aerator? Or is it the washing machine for that bit? And Samsung's got really got a foot in all those places? >> Absolutely. This is one of the things that the smart thing platform is really enabled Samsung to transition across is then it's no longer a conversation with the washing machine person or the dryer. All the devices are part of the smart things. Cloud. Martin Claude is a one way that you could talk to Samsung Devices, and it's an open ecosystem. So it's not just Samsung. Devices were equally comfortable with manufacturers. Any manufacturer bringing those devices because home is a multi vendor environment you are not. We're gonna have all of your home from anyone, vendor, right? And that's been one of the exciting parts of visions that's been part The open ecosystem is something that's been part of smart things. Story forever to really immortalize that in a platform for Samsung has been great transit, >> right? So we're here. It's Uma Logic, eliminate and preparing for this. I saw an interview with you. You made a really interesting comment. >> You said that we are a pervasive >> user of suma logic, and he said 90% of the team are using similar logic. It's fascinating to me because I think a lot of companies air chasing innovation. I think one of the ways to get innovation is you enable more people to have more access to more data and the tools to actually operate that data so that they can do their jobs and find cool ways to make improvements that aren't necessarily coming from the top down. It sounds like you guys have addressed that philosophy wholeheartedly, >> so we absolutely have addressed it wholeheartedly. I think there's a lot of luck involved, and I want to sort of describe it Is that one of the things that worked well for us is people were excited to use sumo more and more. They're more excited to see what they could do with the tool, what insights they could get. And so you see your neighbor looking at it and they look a dashboard and they say, Can I do a little bit of that? And so much So you know, in the last year we've seen ah lot of unplanned value come out. So 1/3 of the value we gotta assume of, um, um in the past year was unplanned. These things people didn't process, they didn't know they would improve. That really just came from this groundswell from what I would call the community. And I think that's where you get that. That unlocks a lot of the potential because you really can't do things from sort of the planned high level. You really need. People actively engaged right and doing stuff you wouldn't expect. >> That's great. So I >> want to talk about >> a little bit about security. Security is a big topic here. It's topic everywhere we go on and now, with connected devices and connected keys and connect doorbells, it seems like, Oh, here we go again And there's this constant talk that security's got to be baked in throughout the entire process. How are you guys dealing with security? Obviously got to be right at the top of mind in terms of priorities. While you're still connecting the sprinklers in the thermostat and everything else. Security >> and privacy are both critical link in privacy, even though you didn't ask about it. Because as you think about devices like cameras and things like this, privacy is top of mind. Also, in terms of regulation like GDP, are so because of that, we're really looking at both cases that the challenge for both security and privacy is it really cuts through your whole organization and every process, and by the way, every process that every partner, if the organization has because we can have something that could be exploited from sort of a an attack through a customer service representative. That could be a person in the customer service organization. It could be how some of social engineered that. And so what we've really needed is this kind of continuous intelligence that can span all of these processes because in something I security, you're as good as your weakest process. And that doesn't mean that we don't focus on all things that you talked about. Were industry leading from device perspective tohave hardware baked in keys and, you know, do things the manufacturing process that lead to something that could be as secure as anything. But that's really that the secret of using a lot of the continuous intelligence tools like sumo is that all of these could bees aren't enough. You have to bring it together by having the intelligence that spans those processes to make sure that all of them are elevated. Because at the end of the day, a security attack is gonna attack your weakest thing, not your strongest right. >> So one of the other >> topics here that talked about is this exponential growth of data, and you guys were part of the problem because now we got sensors and light switches and all these other things that are kicking off data that before we weren't monitoring. And so from from an execution point of view at the company, when you've got so much data that you need to turn into information and then actionable insight, you said Sumo's got some unique characteristics that allow you guys to get more leverage of that platform. I wonder if you could dig into that little bit more >> and I'd like to reframe the data discussion a little bit. A lot of people look at it. It's a problem. I want to really talk about the opportunity side. So part of that goes to our story where we started off at KICKSTARTER with a few 1000 users, we have over 50 million active users now. >> 50 million >> 50 million. Our Android application, the Google Play store, had been downloaded around 200 million times, so it gives you some idea of that size and scope. So the data is an opportunity. There's an opportunity to build a customer base, too, excite people and to manage the processes that do that. And you know what's great now is that the availability of this data means that you can do it in more ways than you ever could before. The problem is, you need a tool that brings us together. To be able to do that in doing that well is difficult, difficult both on the teams and difficult because the size, scope and complexity of the systems because of the data that you mentioned. But the >> reason you want to >> do it is so that you can cross the chasm in terms of this opportunity, and more and more companies are enough. You have this opportunity on the front of them. One of the things that's been really exciting, but the cloud is a sort of democratized the entry point. But that wasn't good enough just because you could get in the game with three people. It's like making a you can make us application in Mobile Applications store, either on Google's on Apple's really easily that gets you in there. What you really need to do is manage the intelligence that goes from that, and for us, it's been really exciting to be able to take our decisions and make them data driven, and we can do that by this explosion of data because it is their >> right in the date is good. And I think we see, you know, kind of date of it as an asset. It hasn't really hit balance sheets officially yet, but I think you see it in the valuations of of companies like Google and Facebook and Amazon, right, who obviously have these crazy giant multiples of the revenue one because they're growing but too because they have so much data. So the markets kind of valuing that data without explicitly calling it out as a line on the balance sheet. That said, not all data has the same value, not all day. Not all data needs to be treated the same and so really opens up an opportunity. How do you tear it so you don't want to get? You know, it's been a ton of money on a piece of data and a big fat stream that somebody leaves open and accidentally suddenly have a big building that maybe wasn't the most valuable. So >> it actually double down on what you said because for a typical company, one of things has also been true. Of the mega scale companies that you pointed out with is there's a lot of uniformity in their data coming the cost of the Amazon. They have customer orders, and they've got orders at this massive scale. A typical company doesn't look like that. They have their data spread is more fragmented, smaller scale on so >> because they want to make different decisions. And this is the >> same thing that has already happened in the storage area. People are really comfortable with storage that they're gonna have in either just disaster recovery or long term storage. And they want a very low cost footprint around that they've got their hot data and they're much more willing, tohave that data managed differently and at a higher cost rate because it's it's much more valuable. We're looking for tools that span that not just in storage, but in the ingestion in the management in the querying of that data. Because, like you said for most businesses, a lot of data's infrequently looked at or looked at in response to a situation, so I'll never know which 10% of the data will be looked at. It will be based on Oh, I got audited or, you know, some other business event that happened on, so this is one of the key things that business is struggling with. One of them is that they they want to adopt these practices to become modern or boring, modernized. But the 2nd 1 is to really be able to tear the data because they couldn't treat all the data's if it's hot data, just like they already figured that out for storage, >> right? It's pretty interesting. It's been going on for storage forever. We really saw it, I think, with the rise of Flash, which was super high quality but super expensive in the early days that's coming down and then at the other. And we have the end of the glacier storage in the cold, cold, cold store. Just put it away by what your last thought's that last. Answer, Robert. As you look forward, I can't believe you're already in middle of September of 2019. It's fascinating to me that time flies so fast. But as >> you look >> forward, what are some of your priorities over the next year or so? How are you guys kind of moving the ball down the field? >> So we're one of the things that we're looking at? Was the data problem that you were talking about, if really looking at are infrequent data and be able to manage that effectively both from the types of insights that we can get from that. So a lot of this starts to be better usage of machine learning pattern recognition a eye on so that we can, you know, the ideal situation for us and not type of data is it got touched once it got looked at once, and then we could understand how to action it later that deferred action. And then how do you know trigger that deferred action as well as the tearing that we sort of talked about that all day? It is not created, equal, created equally, and so both those things are happening just to put some numbers on this. And why is that? We have 150 terabytes or so of data that is somewhat interesting to our business generated on a daily basis. 150. Terrible, terrible. That's interesting. And then on that's out of that, I'd say 10 terabytes is kind of really actionable. It's that gives you an idea. The other part is how that's growing. Where a year ago, we would have been at maybe 60 terabytes of what I would have called this interesting data and maybe five terabytes of, of of, you know, immediately actionable. And And so that's where you know this is following that where that's exponentially growing and it's a big number. So that's what we really think about. >> So you scared those curves. Curves get state, we look. It >> is a huge opportunity. What will happen is either people will create value out of that for customers, in which case, actually the opportunity, because is that such a scale? It will be great for everyone or number two, you know, it just becomes noise, right? And so it isn't really something that scared of, because worst case is it became noise to you. We really want to be one of those people were getting value out of it and see sort of the business growth and the consumer value growth. Out of that, I I'm pretty optimistic that we'll be able to do it because we really if I look back 34 years, we've just been able to figure out a way, and I think it will continue to do that >> All right. Well, Robert, thanks for taking a few minutes of your time and ensuring the story. It's a great story. Thank you. Appreciate being here. All right. >> He's Robert. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Q word. Suma logic illuminate 2019. >> Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from San Diego, California. It's theCUBE! Covering CISCO Live, US, 2019. Brought to you by CISCO and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE live at CISCO Live in San Diego, I'm Lisa Martin and I did a little switcharoo on you guys, I decided to upgrade my co-host! Susie Wee is my co-host, the SVP and CTO of DevNet. Susie it's great to have you here! >> Thank you it's great to be on this side of the table! >> It's exciting, I'm among CISCO royalty, and partner royalty. So to my right is Ramon Alvarez, the director of strategy and business development for Samsung, Ramon welcome to theCUBE! >> Thank you! >> And one of our alumni, it's great to have you back as well Matt McPherson the wireless CTO from CISCO, Matt welcome back! >> Glad to be here! >> So we're on the DevNet zone. Susie the last three days have been electric to say the least. The energy, the interest, what you guys have built, you can feel it I mean I was telling you, from 9:30 this morning we started to have to yell into our microphones because there was so much interest I every session here. We've been talking a lot about WIFI6. >> Yep! >> The capabilities, the excitement, the opportunities that it brings. It's so exciting! >> It's so exciting! >> So we've had just all of the excitement around WIFI6, around 5G, we know that here at the DevNet zone we've been really pushing forward with our developers, the programmability of the network. But what we wanted to do here today is to bring you some of the making of WIFI6 and some of the making of 5G that happens and what's interesting is CISCO as a networking company, has been working very closely with Samsung as a overall networking company as a device manufacturer, and basically as we've been together to develop WIFI6 and 5G, Ramon and Matt have been working together as we created all of that technology and had some interesting releases. So we thought it would be great to just kind of share what's going on here. >> Awesome, super exciting. Matt let's start with you talk to us about this creation that you guys are doing, leveraging the power of WIFI6. >> Well you know WIFI6 it's really revolutionary compared to what we're sed to when it comes to WiFi. It's really broadening the market, this capability to do more deterministic type applications and services, we're really excited about it. Everybody that supplied WiFi has the positives and have had the struggles and as we go into this next generation we can actually make it easier as we add intelligence to the network. But of course when you make this type of transition, what happens? New technology, new standards, and so there's always these little rough edges in getting that new technology out. So what we did is we reached out to our good partners here in Samsung and we started this very early, you're hearing about WIFI6 now and you're hearing about some of the things that are happening in the industry now, but we started working way back, way back. And in fact it's kind of interesting, how do you get these new devices in peoples hands, so that you can test what WIFI6 can do in real environments, in a university environment, in a hospital environment, in an airport environment. So working with Samsung what we did is we actually had 170 covert devices, they were literally Galaxy S10's, and they were dressed up as a Galaxy S9, because it was before they released these devices they didn't want to let all their secrets out, and so what we did is we put these early on into these new work environments and we got to test, we got to do interoperability, we got to really iron out the spec so that when they released their Galaxy S10, and we released our AP's, guess what, it works. We don't put the customers through the initiation of a next generation of technology. So we're really excited to be working with Samsung and really collaborating on multiple different levels. >> So you said you've been working at this for a long time we met sort of talking about WIFI6 with you guys at DevNet create just six or seven weeks ago. Talk to us before we get into some of the meat with Ramon about some of those drivers that CISCO started seeing awhile ago in terms of the evolution of the network, and we think about some of the numbers that we're seeing for the massive amounts of mobile data, it's going to be transitioning off of cellular networks on to WiFi, talk to us about what you guys saw that vision awhile ago that lead to all those cool covert operations. >> Look a lot of people you say look WiFi works right? So why do we need a sixth generation of WiFi? But you know when we look at the trajectory of traffic it can be a little bit daunting. In 2023, CISCO's VNI index that shows these trends, we will transmit more mobile data in 2023, than every year before it combined. So this is what we're seeing this is what we have to deal with. So it's very important that we get together with these partners whether it be Intel at the chip set level, whether it would be Samsung at the device level because you know what, we can't just answer today, we have to answer the next three, five, seven years and WIFI6 is going to give us that platform. >> Alright Ramon tell us about some of the cool meat here that we really want to dig in to. >> So actually one of the things that you kind of touched up on but I would like to mention is that one of the reasons why WIFI6 is here is actually the congestion on networks. So when you go with your smartphone, you go to an event, sports venue, concert, etc, many many people are trying to connect to WiFi, the signal and actually the throughput degrades very, very quickly with the number of people who actually get into the network. So WIFI6 actually solves for that, so that's one of the top pain points that actually we have from our users, our consumer research. The second pain point we actually tried to solve with WIFI6 in our collaboration with CISCO, it's the battery life. So one of the top pain points again for smart phone users it's well my battery doesn't last for a full day, I take lots of pictures, I upload videos, etc, that's going to drain my battery. So actually WIFI6 is a mode where the devices can actually sleep and the AP's can sleep, and only wake up the device and transmit data when that channel is actually available. So that essentially for the user is actually longer battery life. There's more advantage but those are kind of the two key ones. >> There's more and actually if I can just ask both of you, as we were testing between our companies, what kinds of things were we learning and how is that going as we're developing it? >> Like we said it's a new specification, if you look really even at the ground level, all previous versions of WiFi were based on OFDM, this next generations on OFDMA. So that adds some new complexities, but also a lot more capability. Now what happens all the time when you have a new spec is people can read that spec in different ways. How we implement the spec may not be exactly how they implement the spec, and if we don't do that testing beforehand what happens is we discover that out at the customer when that phone call drops or that connection doesn't work like you would expect it to work, that AP to AP handoff doesn't work the way that you expect it to work. We found over 60 critical differences, it's hard to say bud right, but 60 critical differences in how we were interpreting the spec and how the device players were interpreting the spec, and we resolved that so the customer didn't have to go through it they just get good access. >> So it's been an amazing partnership as we were kind of working out all the kinks and I remember, nobody expects WIFI6 or WiFi to be different. Everyone's like it performs the way it does, can it be different, and then one of my guys went into the lab and he tried it and he came back, his eyes were this big. (gasp) It's fast! And he couldn't believe it and so we were able to do it, but that makes us be able to do a whole new set of applications so I think there's some new applications that we can jump into because WIFI6, it does enable new applications. >> In our case we are consumer companies, we sell devices to consumers so the number one application for us is well any kind of consumer application, social media, uploading videos, etc. So that's our established market but we also try to go into other B2B verticals, like public safety, like hospitality, financial, retail, etc. Where actually having that reliability on the network it's extremely important. So one of the reasons why hospitals, hotels, etc deploy their own WiFi network versus just using LTE or 5G is because they can actually control the user experience, they can actually control the throughput, they can control the availability, the coverts, etc. So WIFI6 actually enables that especially when there is a congested situation. >> And we've never had that deterministic control within WiFi before. >> That's right so that's kind of at the network level, and then in terms of more applications at a higher level, so I think that gets you very excited. So we actually have you know Samsung it's a device manufacturer, we have many many devices, smart phones is one of them, we have laptops, wearables, VR headsets, TV's, appliances, etc, they're all getting connected to WiFi. So one of the things that we have seen over the last few years is that the number of WiFi devices in a typical US household has increased from five per household to nine per household today, and it's going to be about 50 WiFi devices per household in 2022. >> 50? Five Zero? Whoa! Should I get my dog a smartphone? >> Your thermostat, door lock, cameras, all kinds of devices have a WiFi connection. In a home we need to be able to support that, but also in an enterprise. >> That's a shift in the industry to think of those things having WiFi connection. >> That's right sensors, motion sensors, open/close sensors, all kinds of humidity sensors, etc. They're all getting connected to WiFi so we need to be able to support that kind of growth. >> So that makes me think, sorry Susie, of security. We talked a lot within the last few days about the integration and the embedding of security to the CISCO suite, but when you're talking about whether it's data from my nest system, or a camera connected to my alarm system, data privacy it's blown up, every generation in the workforce today is aware of it. Can you talk to us a little bit about what you guys are doing to ensure that security's pegged in? >> There's so many places that you can implement security, and the fact of matter is in a good network you have to implement it in all those places, because you don't know where that breach or where it might be subject to somebody coming in and compromising your system. But one of the things that we're doing that I think really revolutionary, is this ability to pull analytics out of the network and actually baseline the behavior of that network. So we know what's normal, we know how devices communicate, we know how that light switch communicates or that light bulb, even these very simple things. And sometimes it's kind of scary you think what if someone were to hack into that really simple stack in a light bulb, how many light bulbs are in a building? And what if they actually went across those light bulbs and started basically spamming into the network? You wouldn't be able to get anything done. Well you can't just turn off all the light bulbs, we're going to disconnect all the light bulbs in the building from the network, you can't do that. So what Cisco is doing with this digital network architecture and what we call SDA or software defined access is the ability to segment and separate things out based on their function. So we can put all of that building management in one segment we can put your mission critical applications in another segment and in fact if somethings misbehaving, don't turn it off but segment it out so it can't in fact cause problems further in your network. I was talking about a light bulb, what if you're in a hospital and it's a heart monitor? >> Right or an MRI machine. >> And you don't want to turn that off, but you don't want ti do infect the rest of that hospital room or the rest of the hospital. So moving into a segment, isolate it, let the function go on, alarm the administrator so that they can address it and contain it. >> And this is exciting because what happens is if you think WIFI6, oh yeah it's an access point and it's what's in the client, and that's it. But actually now we're talking about using the capabilities of a whole network to ensure the security and things like that. Ramon you have an interesting new app that our viewers might want to see. >> Yeah actually I wanted to just continue this talk about security so sometimes we think about security and user experience as a trade off, and we don't like that. We want to maximize especially as a device manufacturer we want to improve and enhance always the user experience. So one of the things we're working on is open roaming, and I like kind of the motto that you guys had was well it's easy to use, but it's secure as well. So essentially open roaming it's a way for users WiFi to connect automatically to a WiFi network, without having to enter in a login and password information, and kind of sign in page, without going through that process. A user will get automatically authenticated, and of course we have to have some security so one thing we've done is using Samsung account in our devices as the authentication system for the user. >> And where are we doing it, right here! >> I'm actually connected through open roaming with my phone right now. >> So almost 50% of all attendees that came out to CISCO Live just automatically connected to the network. They didn't have to go through a portal, they didn't have to get out usernames and passwords, they didn't have to go to their connection manager and pick the right network, they're just connected, they're transmitting traffic, they're getting their emails. >> That happened to me this morning on another device I brought in. >> There you go, and that's a security thing because what you're doing with that is Samsung users have Samsung accounts when they provision their device they save their configuration is there, they save their preferences there, they provision it into a device it pushes it out and now you get this profile, this certificate that allows you to do these types of things, and with partners like Samsung guess what, they have a pretty big market. Go to Mobile World Congress last year, everyone with a Galaxy S9 just connected to the network. So this really broadens across the ecosystem it's changing the way we will experience networking. >> It's going to impact every persons live on every level, this is so exciting. So you guys have to come back cause we're out of time but this is, I feel like we're just getting started. But thank you guys so much. Susie thank you for being my awesome and steamed co-host. >> Thank you for giving me this opportunity to be a co-host. >> Awesome you guys, Ramon, Matt, thank you so much for your time we appreciate it. >> I'm going to hold you to bringing us back. >> Deal! Shake on it! Alright for my guest and for Susie Wee, I'm Lisa Martin you're watching theCUBE live from CISCO Live San Diego, thanks for watching! (upbeat music)

we're in preparation with Samsung on this new innovative high-tech app that's coming out and it's gonna be integrated - I mean everything's gonna come together it's gonna have my music in it it's gonna have Stan's gonna make a cameo anything can be a tool you know so the computer doing computer art is an amazing opportunity to explore a new kind of tool right to invent and create new creatures or new things it's all on how you use it looks like one of those old football collars but you put it around like this and it allows for music to come up only to my ears right yeah so actually let's turn on the music and then they'll actually get the hear and through my head put my little headset here and we'll just throw something on it that's kind of cranked up actually okay so this is cranked up can you hear this just a little bit so yeah so he can barely hear that son like talking wow thank you I work as my own self sort of on fashion and technologies of the combination of fashion and technology so yes some of my dresses they are pleading and they are surfing cocktail shorts they are attacking really with mechanic spider legs on the shoulders they are exploding in a layer of smoke sort of so I do a lot with animatronics and robotics and what I want to do is that fashion is augment augmenting a sort of you know so creating an interaction right now the price of our machine is $49 on sous-chef at nonny coup calm because interacts with a food program so there's food that comes with the machine you wave the food in front of the machine it automatically recognizes a time and temperature and interacts with different time and temperatures of different bags of food and use drop it in in 30 minutes you have a gourmet chef prepared meal just the way that we would do it in Michelin star restaurant

>> Narrator: From San Francisco, it's The Cube. Covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017, brought to you by Samsung. (upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. Live here, in San Francisco, for day two. We're winding down day two of two days of wall to wall coverage, The Cube's exclusive coverage of Samsung Developer Conference. I'm John Furrier the founder, co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media (mumbles) the Cube our next guest Larry Cutler, co-founder and CTO of Baobab Studios. >> You got it right. >> And you're co-founder and CEO Maureen Fan was at our Grace Hopper event. >> Larry: Yes. >> Well thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> So you guys are doing great. Love the story-telling, gaming, tech culture coming together here at Samsung. >> Yep. >> And seeing the future. The future, if you connect the dots, is augmented reality voice-activated, headphones that can be hacked and programmed and customized. You guys are doing some interesting things, you've got some good awards. Take a minute to talk about your studios. What are you guys doing, what's the aha moment for you guys. What should people know? >> So we at Baobab Studios, we're reinventing animated storytelling using VR. And so what we've, our aha moment was feeling that you could completely immerse yourself in the world in VR. And when we started thinking about well what is so special about an animated film, it's really about transporting you to faraway worlds, and making those worlds so real that you could like reach out and touch them. And then if you think about VR, that's kind of the same thing, where VR's promise is being able to transport you to incredible places and to make you really feel like you're in those worlds and you're part of those worlds. >> And to relax and chill a little bit too. >> Well relax and chill as well. >> Or entertainment or to be thrilled. >> So in our case we wanted to take all the experience that we have telling stories at places like Pixar and Dreamworks and apply that into this new medium. And so we found that VR is an incredibly powerful medium, and it really is one that's unlike film and unlike games. So, you're talking about bringing together the expertise of people from films, and people from games. That's critical to what we're doing, and yet at the same time, the experience is something that's totally different. >> Yeah we were commenting with some of our guys in our office how Twitch was experimenting with using the comments to drive the game behavior. You start to see new kinds of game systems develop around the storytelling as more of a behavioral dynamic, not the boring game I figured out, or the multi-player game with my same friends, or whatever that's going on, you're seeing a whole new level of creativity going on, one. Two, the other question is how much does it cost to make these things, 'cause Dreamworks and these guys are spending a lot of dough to do animation. >> Larry: Yes. >> I mean it's not cheap, so how do you guys crack the code on keeping it low, not low-budget, but low-cost and also intelligent is that the secret sauce? >> Yes well that's certainly super important for us. You know we're a start-up company, so obviously we need to be able to have a pipeline that if we run efficiently and you know for us, I think what we've done is we've brought together some of the best people, you know. So we've hired our friends, we've hired people who are really experts in the field, and we're really creating a next-generation VR platform so that we can actually create these animated experiences, be able to experiment in this space. You know, sort of try out different techniques and storytelling methodologies and at the same time do it in a way that we can, you know, sort of experiment as much as possible. >> John: Talk about some of the awards you guys had, I mean, you guys done some things. Share some of the accolades you've gotten. >> Yes, so, I mean what's amazing is that we started with our first piece of content Invasion!, and we premiered it last year in April at Tribecca Film Festival, and it's really gone on to, first of all, from a consumer standpoint, it's one of the most popular downloaded pieces of content on all the VR platforms, and at the same time it's been shown at a number of different film festivals, and it recently won an Emmy, so we're very excited about that, and, you know, what we realize is that audiences just fell in love with this bunny character Chloe. So Invasion! is this story about two aliens that try to take over Earth, and they're thwarted not by humans with powerful weapons, but by cute little woodland creatures. In the first episode in Invasion! they're thwarted by this cute little bunny Chloe, and what happens is that at the very beginning of the piece, Chloe like hops up to you, and if you look down you're a little bunny in the scene, you've got bunny legs, you can hop around. And audiences, you know, the viewer just reacted in ways that you would never do in a film, like people are waving at Chloe, a lot of people reach out and try to pet Chloe, a lot of people mimic what Chloe's doing, and in short people are just treating Chloe as if she's real. And it made us realize that there's something really powerful here that is really worth kind of leaning in and digging deeper into. >> And what was the next step after that, so you went what you went, some development, was it the game, was it the character development? How do you double-down on them, I'm just kind of curious on thinking about how the, on the thinking behind it. >> It was really interesting because we, in Invasion! we were kind of the first to make you a character in the story, but at the time there really weren't hand controllers, or any of the devices so that you could actually really have sort of a more like increased role in the story. And so at the same time, people really felt that they were front and center, and they felt this sense of protecting Chloe from the aliens 'cause you're placed right in the center of the story. And so with Asteroids! when we started, we just wanted to dive deeper into that idea of you playing an active role in the story. And so in Asteroids! we focused on the two alien characters Mac and Cheez and their relationship, and you're a helper robot on the ship, so you have. >> So how do I get involved and get these stories, do I have to have a VR kit? So I don't have, I haven't bought anything yet VR-wise, so for me, how do I engage with you guys, what do I do? Do I buy Oculus Rift, or certain headsets? >> So our stuff is meant to be available for everyone. We really want to have as many people be able to see our content as possible. And so first of all, if you have a VR headset of any type, our, Invasion! is available on all those platforms, so that's the high-end headsets like the Rift and Vive, the PlayStation VR for Sony, as well as if you have a mobile phone like a Samsung phone, you can plug it into your VR. At the same time, we also have a Baobab Cardboard app, so you don't even need to have VR to see our product. So you just get an IOS or Android app, a Baobab app. >> So I'm in the market to buy a headset, I'm not price sensitive, what should I buy? What would you recommend? (Larry chuckling) >> Well there really are so many options, so you know obviously at the high >> John: What would you get? >> Well at the highest end, you know, getting a Rift or Vive really gives you the full VR experience because it's really tracking your position and orientation so you can actually walk around a space, the characters can react to you in believable ways, and it's all happening in real time. And on the other hand, the Sony PlayStation VR's are really affordable if you've got a Sony Playstation, you just buy the PSVR headset, you plug it right in and you're ready to go. I'm really excited looking forward to a world where you're not tethered to your computer, and so it's really exciting to see these stand-alone headsets that are going to come out that basically there's no tethering to a computer and yet you have that same inside-out tracking so that >> And this is the Samsung vision, right? The Samsung vision is to use their displays. >> Yes, exactly. See right now what you have, which is, which is already really exciting, is you take your Samsung phone, you plug it into a Gear VR, and the one thing that's missing is that you're not able to track both the position and orientation of where you are, and so the next generation headsets are going to have that. And the experiences will be much higher feeling. >> Alright cool, so then I, I'll actually download all of this stuff. So as the CTO of the venture, your job is to kind of look over the landscape. You have to have the 20 mile stare of the future, not screw it up, but you've got to win the present. >> Larry: Yes, we're all about being able to deliver in the present and look forward to the future. >> And that's the key, and you have that unique skill as an entrepreneur. What are you guys doing now technically and with the product, what are some of the key things that people should know about, because I mean I look at the CG and the animation world, and you see the Moore's law kind of coming that way, right, so you go wow, as someone with a live video, I would love to have a bunny and the cube set right here, right? So we see a future where I want to immerse myself with characters, not just stickers. >> We of course see that as well, so you know, obviously. >> John: Is expensive I mean it must be, 'cause in the old days what, you had the artists, monster storage, tons of compute, what's it like now? >> Well we're a really small start-up company, so we are not a, you know, 300 person organization that is producing a full animated film. We're a small team of artists and engineers working together in the same way that we had that same excitement in the early days. I started my career at Pixar in some of their earlier films, and it was that same >> John: Power work stations, you had that high-end gear. >> Yeah so it was that same excitement in those early days, like we just had to figure out like how are we going to actually create this shot, how are we going to like, you know, build this character, how are we going to like finish this on time. And we have that same exact excitement in the office. >> When were you at Pixar, were you there for the Toy Story kind of thing? >> Yeah, so I worked on the Toy Story films, and A Bug's Life and Monster's Inc., and then I went over to Dreamworks and headed up all of their character technologies on their various films. >> Okay so you guys do anything different than those guys, or are you guys more focused more simple? >> Yeah, I mean what's interesting is that this is really a new medium and it's a new skill set, because what's happened is that you are part of the world, and for us the thing that's most exciting is that by you being a character, first of all, the other characters are not just able to have, you know, sort of high-quality animation, but they're able to react to you, and so there's there A. a number of technical innovations that you need to overcome so that we can have that same high-quality character performance that I would expect from a Pixar or Dreamworks film happening, running in real time at 90 frames a second on my headset, and at the same time also be able to have those characters react to you and respond to what you're doing. And you know, so we've scratched the surface on that. So one of the things that's really interesting is how two people will actually have all these subconscious communication cues, you know, whether it's eye contact or whether it's two lovers sitting across the table and mirroring each other's behavior, that's the type of thing that we can add into our animation. And at the same time, we have stories where depending on what you do, whether you choose to participate or not, that actually affects the outcome, and affects the way that characters respond to you. And so having much smarter character performances is certainly one area that I think is really exciting. >> And that's going to be interesting for you guys because you have some structured ways to do that, and then some unstructured ways to do it with community data, machine learning, and then you can use bots in a way to help you get data, but you almost could have character developments be dynamic. >> You definitely could, and you know for us I think the thing that is always the biggest point that we come back to is story. And so on one hand we want to tell one story that's really told well, not ten different stories, and on another hand, because you're part of that story, depending on what you do, that's actually going to affect how the characters respond to you, and that could be in a really nuanced way, and so, you know, building up AI systems, and building up the smarts so that you can actually have that type of response, and yet still feel like these characters are alive and breathing. >> Well the Chloe example on Invasion! is great example, you'd love to have that automated, so when you see those magical moments, the story could evolve, you can kind of give it that programmable policy-based taping. (John laughing) >> Yeah exactly so you know, so this is the type of thing. >> We're geeking out here on the set, Larry, great to have you on, super informative content, and I love the world you're in, I think the world's changing, I think you're going to see some interesting dynamics coming, you certainly have the historical view, Pixar and Dreamworks, old school, if you call that old school. >> That's right. >> Now the new school's coming in, certainly AR looks good too. >> Yeah, we're really excited about AR as well. When we think about stories, you know, VR is about transporting you to a different world and having a story take place there. AR is about the characters being alive in your world, both are really exciting. >> Have you seen the Magic Leap demo? >> Larry: Yes, yeah. >> What's it like, can you tell us? >> I'm not allowed to tell. >> John: Is it good? >> Yes, yeah. >> So it's worth half of another half a billion, oh I can't wait. >> That I can't say, you know. I can't comment on their business, but. >> It's a freaking award chest. >> I think there's a lot of exciting things you know, AR. >> They must have a killer demo, I want to find out, I want to see this demo. Magic Leap, I want to to see your demo. All seriousness, great to have you on, and certainly come down to our Cube studios. I want to follow your story, I think you guys are on the cutting edge of a new user experience that's going to bring computer animation, computer graphics, into a new persona as a storytelling, so congratulations. Larry Cutler, how do you say the. >> Baobab. >> Baobab, B-A-O-B-A-B Studios in Redwood City, California. It's the Cube live coverage from Samsung Developer Conference, I'm John Furrier, more after this short break. (peppy music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco it's TheCUBE covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. (digital music) >> Hey welcome back and we're live here in San Francisco this is TheCUBE's exclusive coverage Samsung Developer Conference #SDC2017, I'm John Furrier co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media Coast My next guest is Ken Yeoung tech reporter here inside TheCUBE. I've known Ken for almost 10 years now plus been in the Silicon Valley beat scene covering technology, communities, and all the cutting edge tech but also some of the old established companies. Great to see you. >> Likewise, thanks for having me. >> So tech reporter, let's have a little reporter session here because reporting here at Samsung, to me, is my first developer conference with Samsung. I stopped going to the Apple World Developer Conference when it became too much of a circus around, you know, close to a couple of years before Steve Jobs died. >> Right. >> Now this whole scene well we will have to talk to Steve Gall when we get down there but here, my first one, my reports an awakening I get the TV thing but I'm like IoT that's my world. >> Ken: Oh really? >> I want to see more IoT >> Ken: Yeah. >> So it's good to see Samsung coming into the cloud and owning that. So, that's exciting for me. What do you see as a report that you could file? >> You know, so it's funny because I actually did write a post this morning after watching the keynote yesterday. While I was at VentureBeat a few months ago I reported on Bixby's launch when it came out with the Galaxy S8 and when I heard about what that was it was kind of interesting. That was one of the biggest selling points for me to switch over from my iPhone. And when I tried it out it was interesting. I was kind of wondering how it would stand up against Google Assistant because both of them are installed on the same device. But now as you see with Bixby 2.0 and now with the SmartThings you start to see Samsung's vision. Right now it's on a mobile, it's just very piecemeal. But now when you tackle it on with the TVs, with the fridges, monitors, ovens and everything like that it becomes your entire home. It becomes your Jarvis. You don't actually have to spend 150 bucks or 200 bucks on an Alexa-enabled device or Google Home that most people may not be totally familiar with. But if you have a TV you're familiar with it. >> Obviously you mentioned Jarvis. That's reference to the old sitcom and when Mark Zuckerberg tried his Jarvis project which was, you know, wire his home from scratch. Although a science project, you talk about real utility. I mean so we're getting down to the consumerization so let's take that to the next level. >> Ken: Right. >> If you look at the trends in Silicon Valley it's certainly in the tech industry block, chain and ICOs are really hot. Mission point offerings. That's based on utility right? So, utility-based ICOs, so communities using gamification. Game apps, utility. Samsung, SmartThings. Using their intelligence to not just be the next Amazon. >> Right >> The commerce cloud company, they're just trying to be a better Samsung. >> Ken: Exactly. >> Which they've had some problems in the past and we've heard from analysts here Patrick Morgan was on, pointed out... Illustrated the point. They're a stovepipe company. And with Bixby 2.0 they're like breaking down the silos. We had the execs on here saying that's their goal. >> Ken: Exactly. Yeah if you look on here everything has been siloed. You look at a lot of tech companies now and you don't get to see their grand vision. Everyone has this proto-program when they start these companies and when they expand then you start to see everything come together. Like for example, whether it's Square, whether it's Apple, whether it's Google or Facebook, right? And Samsung, a storied history, right, they've been around for ages with a lot of great technology and they've got their hands in different parts. But from a consumer standpoint you're like likelihood of you having a Samsung device in your home is probably pretty good and so why not just expand that leverage that technology. Right now tech is all about AI. You start to see a lot of the AI stars get acquired or heavily funded and heavily invested. >> Really The Cube is AI, we're AI machine right here. Right here is the bot, analyst report. People are AI watching. But I mean what the hell is AI? AI is machine learning, using software, >> Data collection. >> Nailed it. >> And personalization. And you look at I interviewed a Samsung executive at CAS last year this January, and he was telling me about the three parts. It has to be personal, it has to be contextual and it has to be conversational in terms of AI. What you saw yesterday during the keynote and what executives and the companies have been repeatedly saying is that's what Bixby is. And you could kind of say that's similar to what Google has with Google Assistant you can see that with Alexa but it's still very... Those technologies are very silent. >> What were those three things again? Personal, >> Personable, contextual, and conversational. >> That is awesome, in fact, that connects with what Amy Joe Kim, CEO of ShuffleBrain. She took it from a different angle; she's building these game apps but she's becoming more of a product development. Because it's not just build a game like a Zynga game or you know, something on a mobile phone. She's bringing gaming systems. Her thesis was people are now part of the game. Now those are my words but, she's essentially saying the game system includes data from your friends. >> Right. >> The game might suck but my friends are still there. So there's still some social equity in there. You're bringing it over to the contextual personal, this is the new magic for app developers. Is this leading to AR? >> Oh absolutely. >> I mean we're talking about ... This is the convergence of the new formulas for successful app development. >> Right, I mean we were talking about earlier what is AI and I mentioned all about data and it's absolutely true. Your home is collecting so much data about you that it's going to offer that personal response. So you're talking about is this going to lead to AR? Absolutely, so whatever data it has about your home you might bring your phone out as you go shopping or whatnot. You might be out sight-seeing and have your camera out. And it might bring back some memories, right or might display a photo from your photo album or something. So there's a lot of interesting ties that could come into it and obviously Samsung's camera on their phones are one of the top ones on the market. So there's potential for it, yeah. >> Sorry Ken, I've got to ask you. So looking at the bigger picture now let's look outside of Samsung. We can look at some tell signs here Google on stage clearly not grand-standing but doing their thing. Android, you know, AR core, starting to see that Google DNA. Now they've got tensor flow and a lot of goodness happening in the cloud with Sam Ramji over there kicking ass at Google doing a great job. Okay, they're the big three, some people call it the big seven I call it the big three. It's Amazon, Microsoft, Google. Everyone else is fighting for four, five, six. Depending on who you want to talk to. But those are the three, what I call, native clouds. Ones that are going to be whole-saleing resource. Amazon is not Google, Amazon has no Android. They dropped their phones. Microsoft, Joe Belfiore said hey I'm done with phones they tapped out. So essentially Microsoft taps out of device. They've still got the Xbox. Amazon tapping out of phones. They've got commerce. They've got web service. They've got entertainment. This is going to be interesting. What's your take? >> Well interesting is an under-statement there. I mean, you look at what the ... Amazon, right now, is basically running the show when it comes to virtual assistant or voice-powered assistance. Alexa, Amazon launched a bunch of Alexa products recently and then soon after, I believe it was the last month, Google launches a whole bunch of Google home devices as well. But what's interesting is that both of those companies are targeting... Have a different approach to what Samsung is, right? Remember Samsung's with Bixby 2.0 is all about consolidating the home, right? In my post I coined that it was basically their fight to unite the internet of things kind of thing. But, you know, when it comes to Alexa with Amazon and Google they're targeting not only the smaller integrations with maybe like August or SmartLocks or thermostats and whatnot but they're also going after retailers and businesses. So how many skills can you have on Alexa? How many, what are they called, actions can you have on Google Home? They're going after businesses. >> Well this is the edge of the network so the reason why, again coming back full-circle, I was very critical on day one yesterday. I was kind of like, data IoT that's our wheelhouse in TheCUBE. Not a lot of messaging around that because I don't think Samsung is ready yet and nor should they be given their evolution. But in Amazon's world >> I think they're ... The way they played it yesterday was pretty good a little humble, like they didn't set that expectation like oh my god this is going to >> They didn't dismiss it but they were basically not highlighting it right. >> Well they did enough. They did enough to entice you to tease it but like, look, they have a long way to go to kind of unite it. SmartThings has been around for a while so they've been kind of building it behind the scenes. Now this is like hey now we're going to slap on AI. It's similar to ... >> What do you hear from developers? I've been hearing some chirping here about AI it's got to be standardized and not sure. >> Oh, absolutely. I think a lot of developers will probably want to see hey if I'm going to build... If I want to leverage AI and kind of consolidate I want to be able to have it to maximize my input maximize my reach. Like I don't want to have to build one action here one service skill here. Whatever Samsung's going to call for Bixby. You know I want to make it that one thing. But Samsung's whole modernization that's going to be interesting in terms of your marketplace. How does that play out? You know, Amazon has recently started to monetize or start to incentivize, as it were, developers. And Google if they're not already doing that will probably has plenty of experience in doing that. With Android and now they can do that with Google. >> So I've got to ask you about Facebook. Facebook has been rumored to have a phone coming but I mean Facebook's >> Ken: They tried that once. >> They're Licking their wounds right now. I mean the love on Facebook is not high. Fake news, platform inconsistencies. >> Ken: Ad issues. >> Moves fast, breaks stuff. Zuck is hurting. It's hurting Zuck. Certainly the Russian stuff. I think, first of all, it's really not Facebook's fault. They never claimed to be some original content machine. They just got taken advantage of through bad arbitrage. >> It's gets it to some scale. >> People are not happy with Facebook right now so it's hard for them to choose a phone. >> Well, you're right. There are rumors that they were going to introduce the phone again after... We all remember Facebook Home which was, you know, we won't talk about that anymore. But I think there was talk about them doing a speaker some sort of video thing. I think they were calling it... I believe it's called Project Aloha. I believe Business ETC. and TechCrunch have reported on that extensively. That is going to compete with what Amazon's going. So everyone is going after Amazon, right. So I think don't discount Samsung on this part I think they are going to be I don't want to call them the dark horse but you know, people are kind of ignoring them right now. >> Well if Samsung actually aligned with Amazon that would be very because they'd have their foot in both camps. Google and Amazon. Just play Switzerland and win on both sides. >> Samsung, I think Samsung >> That might be a vital strategy. Kinesis if the customers wanted to do that. Google can provide some cloud for them, don't know how they feel about that. >> Yeah I mean Samsung will definitely be... I think has the appeal with their history they can go after the bigger retailers. The bigger manufacturers to leverage them because there's some stability as opposed to well I'm not going to give access to my data to Amazon you look at Amazon now as Amazon's one of the probably the de facto leader in that space. You see people teaming up with Google to compete against them. You know, there's a anti-Amazony type of alliance out there. >> Well I would say there's a jealousy factor. >> Ken: True, true. >> But a lot of the fud going out there... I saw Matt Asay's article in InfoWorld... And it was over the top basically saying that Amazon's not giving back an open source. I challenged Andy Jesse two years ago on that and Matt's behind the times. Matt you've got to get with the program you're a little bit hardcore pushed there. But I think he's echoing the fear of the community. Amazon's definitely doing open source first of all but the same thing goes for Ali Baba. I asked the founder of Ali Baba cloud last week when I was in China. You guys are taking open source what are you giving back and it was off the record comment and he was like, you know, they want to give back. So, just all kinds of political and or incumbent positions on open source, that to me is going to be the game-changer. Linux foundation, Hipatchi is growing, exponential growth in open source over the next five to ten years. Just in terms of lines of code shipped. >> Right. >> Linux foundation's shown those numbers and 10% of that code is going to be new. 90% of the code's going to be re-used and so forth. >> Ken: Oh absolutely. I mean you're going to need to have a lot of open source in order for this eco-system to really flourish. To build it on your own and build it proprietary it basically locks it down. Didn't Sony deal with that when they were doing, like, they're own memory cards for cameras and stuff and now their cameras are using SD cards now. So you're starting to see, I think, a lot of companies will need to be supportive of open source. In tech you start to see people boasting that, you know, we are doing this in open source. Or you know, Facebook constantly announces hey we are releasing this into open source. LinkedIn will do that. Any company that you talk to will... >> Except Apple. Apple does some open source. >> Apple does some open source, yeah. >> But they're a closed system and they are cool about it. They're up front it. Okay final question, bottom line, Samsung Developer Conference 2017 what should people know that didn't make it or are watching this, what should they know about what they missed and what Samsung's doing, what they need to do better. >> You know I think what really took the two-day conference is basically Bixby. You look at all the sessions; all about Bixby. SmartThings, sure they consolidated everything into the SmartThings cloud, great. But you know SmartThings has been around for a while and I'm interested to see how well they've been doing. I wish they released a little bit more numbers on those. But Bixby it was kind of an interesting 10 million users on them after three months launching in the US which is very is a pretty good number but they still have a bit of a ways to go and they're constantly making improvements which is a very good, good, good thing as well. >> Ken Yeoung, a friend of TheCUBE, tech reporter formerly with VentureBeat now onto his next thing what are you going to do? Take some time off? >> Take some time off, continue writing about what I see and who knows where that takes me. >> Yeah and it's good to get decompressed, you know, log off for a week or so. I went to China I was kind of off Facebook for a week. It felt great. >> Yeah. (laughs) >> No more political posts. One more Colin Kaepernick kneeling down during the national anthem or one more anti-Trump post I'm going to... It was just disaster and then the whole #MeToo thing hit and oh my god it was just so much hate. A lot of good things happening though in the world and it's good to see you writing out there. It's TheCUBE, I'm John Furrier, live in San Francisco, Samsung Developer Conference exclusive Cube coverage live here we'll be right back with more day two coverage of two days. We'll be right back.

From San Francisco, it's the CUBE covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017 brought to you by Samsung. Okay welcome back everyone. Live here in San Francisco at Moscone West is the CUBE's exclusive coverage of Samsung Developer Conference. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of Silicon Angle as well as the co-host of the CUBE. Our next guest is from PostMates, Prerak Trivedi, who is the senior Android developer at PostMates. So, mobile apps, got to have the food, you guys do the food delivery in any city; you're all over the place. How many cities are you guys in? >> I think it's more than 50 markets now. >> Really big time. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you. >> So Android obviously, IOS versus Android, it's been the was since day one, I remember when Google had the first phone, had the first prototype. I saw this coming, and everyone saw it. Apple was owning it, Android has moved so fast. >> Prerak: Oh, definitely. >> What are the hot, cool things about Android right now that you're excited about, and that people should know about? >> Prerak: Oh yeah, sure. So Android, with the recent release, I think the all-year release, they have a lot of good technologies built in, especially if you see three years back, when the KitKat rolled out, it completely transformed Android, right? So today, if you'll see like ... In my opinion, it's surpassed Apple's IOS platform-- >> John: Why's that? What does it have? >> So, it has a lot of cool innovations, especially as an advanced phone user, if you want to multitask on your phone, right? So the split screen tabs, basically, so you can split your apps. So while writing an email, you want to reference the original content, something like that, or you want to listen to YouTube while navigating, right? So I don't know if you guys know, YouTube goes off if you put it in the background. With this new functionality, you can do both things at the same time, so that's why-- >> Yeah, well YouTube's got a lot of problems, certainly on Safari as well, I mean we've had big problems with that, so this is an interesting point. So how about multi-threading apps, I mean, what's some of the innovations, what is Android doing that you like, and what are the things that they need to do differently? 'Cause Samsung's going to give me more goodness with the bigger phone. So-- >> I mean, you have all the real estate in the bigger phones, and as you see, like earlier, three years back, it was like a 5 inch phone, now you have 6 to 6.5 inch phones, and then you have so much real estate, you can do so many things that are on it, like you have a good in-app gaming experience, like you know-- >> So what do you do on the app for PostMates? What are you responsible for? >> I work on the merchant facing Android applications. We provide them tablets, and they give them a platform for other management. >> They're the merchants. Those are the people who make the food. >> Exactly, the restaurants, basically. We partner with them, and we give them a platform to do order management. >> What do they care about that that might be different from the consumer, they care more about who the driver is, do they care about work flow? Is there any design considerations, you think, differently about the merchant versus, say, the end user, or is it the same? >> Oh, yeah, sure. So, when it goes to a merchant, we have to focus on their part, right, like, they don't care about the buyer, or the-- >> John: Or other restaurants. (laughs) >> I mean, basically, when they're preparing food, so we have to focus, and make them focus on the order, right, so we give them the tablet as a kiosk application, where they are focused on only one thing, doing the order management. Then once they are market ready to get it out of there too. >> And they want to make sure their menu >> Exactly. >> is in the right place, >> so there's not a lot of bad orders. 'Cause the worst thing that could happen is, I didn't order that. >> Exactly, yeah. We give them the platform for that as well, everything in one tablet, so yeah. >> Alright, so what's the coolest thing you're working on right now? >> Right now, the coolest thing I would say is providing ... Actually, I can't say much about that-- >> John: Come on, say it! >> (laughs) Yeah, nah. I mean, yeah, so one of the cool-- >> What's the coolest code you pushed? >> So, yeah...actually it's coming out... >> Notifications? >> Okay, so you... >> Notifications is all like... >> Come on! Share something! >> Maybe I can share at the end... >> Okay, share a best practice. >> A best practice? >> Yeah, best practice in the Android, for the Android developers watching. >> Android developers, yeah. If you want to build a scalable Android application, I would say, architecture is very important. Just follow Google IO's architecture components. Getting architecture, is very important because if you want to reuse your UI or if you want to build on top of your existing code it would be very helpful to give a good platform, build on a good platform. Then adding features to it would be extremely... >> John: Alright, so what's your take of this conference here? I mean this is kind of like an awesome conference. They're bringing that Apple Worldwide Developer conference to Samsung. It's their 4th year. It'd kind of clean. I like the messaging, clean in a way, not like being cleaned, like spotless clean, but clean messaging. I love the big screens. They're tying the smart TV. They've given developers what looks like a seamless fabric into the world. Now if I'm a developer, I'm going to raise my hand and say "Okay. I want real APIs that are documented. I don't want to have to go dig around in all the APIs." >> Prerak: Right, right, right. >> I mean, what's your take on Samsung? What are they doing good? What are they doing bad? >> I think I was really blown away with the whole connected SmartThings platform. They focused a lot on the connecting of people and I think feel like in the coming years, connected home, like home automation would be one very important aspect of everyone's life. Let's say if I'm traveling, I want to control my home from somewhere. I was excited about the whole connected home, the SmartThings platform. And with Bixby coming in as well, you know you can control home with your voice. Which excites me the most. >> It would be interesting too, I can see, almost putting my developer hat on... your business would be amazing if >> Prerak: Well yeah! >> the restaurants could learn about my orders. He's a repeat customer, that they send orders back, I'm gluten free, or whatever I do... >> Exactly. >> And that's kind of the AI you want. >> Yeah! >> You want Bixy to learn. >> Yep. >> Bixby to learn. >> Exactly. Learn from the past orders and... >> You guys working on that? >> Somewhat. Something like that. >> (laughs) Cagey! He won't give me any secrets. Okay! Bottom line: Android looking good right now? >> Very good right now, yeah. Android and Samsung doing good things. >> Alright, so what do you say to your IOS Apple friends? When you're arm wrestling over IOS and Android? >> I think IOS is also in very good shape. I mean, IOS gives a very good platform for everyone as well. Like basically it goes hand in hand. The competition is always... >> John: Global is key, right? Global has a big reach. >> Exactly. Global is key. Competition is good in terms of healthy innovation. So I feel like IOS does some innovation, Android does something else. >> Do you guys sit in the same lunch room, or different parts of the building than your IOS team? Do you guys co-mingle? >> We sit next to each other. >> You do? Do you throw stuff at each other? Is there peace? >> We always have healthy competition. Healthy jokes. >> That's always good. It's always fun. It's a religion. Apple versus Android. It's interesting. We look at all of our analytics and our web properties and it's source information. You can almost see the interests. More open source folks love Android. More global, more API-centric thinking, web services, micro services, docker containers, people who are thinking about kubernetes and cloud native. They love Android! Do you agree? >> Prerak: I agree, yeah. >> I won't say the lazy guys do IOS, but there's big money in Apple, too. Some nuances are there. >> Yep. Which one do you think is having better market share for you guys? >> I think IOS is better than Android, personally. In terms of I use both. But I think there is a lot more work Android has got to do. But what attracts me to Android, certainly Samsung and others, is that there are other platforms out there that need to be open and everything will be in API. >> Prerak: Exactly. >> Micro services trend in the cloud with kubernetes and containers, specifically kubernetes. The orchestration of work loads are going to be instrumental and that's going to win the game. So I think Android is tipped for the future to be open and better than Apple. Apple's closed. But Apple's the fine jewelry of the ave. It's for push button, get what I need. Less sophisticated user. >> Sure, makes sense. >> I guess I'm over-simplifying, over-generalizing. That's how I see it. I think, most people, that's the way that they see it. How about you? What do you think? Obviously, you're biased. You're Android. >> Nah! As I told you earlier, I'm all for innovation so as long as it's done by IOS or Android, we need to keep moving forward and that's... >> John: Alright, so message to your friends at home, other Android developers that didn't make this event, what are they missing? What should they know? >> Everyone should definitely check out SmartThings. I think that's the really cool thing because the whole ecosystem, like having your light bulb and those things controlled by you remotely. Definitely check out SmartThings. I'm excited about AR Core, Samsung and Google partnership as well. That could be one interesting thing coming out as well. >> John: AR kits out there too, what do you think about that? >> Oh yeah. >> Security. >> The AR kit? >> Yeah. >> I haven't really... >> It's got more security, stuff's more IOT based IR Core, AR Core certainly the other big key. Alright, Preket, thank you so much for coming on the CUBE. Android developer here shared his take on the CUBE. Talking a little smack with IOS, of course Samsung's got the bigger phone here. In the show here, love the Note 8. Going to give it a good run against my iPhone. It's the CUBE coverage here at Samsung Developer Conference. More after this short break. (music)

>> Narrator: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. >> Welcome back everyone. Live here in San Francisco at Moscone West is the exclusive coverage from theCUBE SiliconANGLE Media of the SDC 2017. I'm John Furrier the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media and the co-host of theCUBE. My next guest is Amy Jo Kim who is the CEO of Shufflebrain. It's the parent company of gamethinking.io, a variety of other projects, and expert in the convergence of design, gaming, computer science, and et cetera. Welcome to theCUBE. >> It's a pleasure to be here. >> Thanks for coming on. Obviously we've been seeing the trend, the convergence trend for a while certainly in the tech industry. Computer science and social science coming together, that was our motto when we started our company eight years ago. But really to me the flashpoint was Steve Jobs had the technology-liberal arts crossroads. That really kind of spawned the beginning of a creative generation start thinking about the devices, how it all intersects, and not the pure play handheld. So gamers here at Samsung Development Conference and developers bring game mechanics in. That's communities, gamification, games themselves, user interface. What's your reaction to all this? You've designed a great bunch of interfaces. >> I'm, I think it's fantastic. I think what we're seeing is really a flashpoint that has several trends converging. One of the trends we have is developers, the folks here, you know are right here at this wonderful conference, they've grown up with games. They're familiar with the lexicon of games, with how games work. And so it's very natural for them when they start to build their own apps and say what will make this engaging to turn to games and look for inspiration in games? So that's been going on for a while and it's accelerating. We're also seeing that mobile technology, mobile phones, have become so ubiquitous that most of the traffic coming in on many people's experiences 70%, I recently ran a promotion for Shufflebrain, 70% of our traffic was mobile total traffic. So the ubiquity of mobile phones means that everybody's got a potential gaming machine or a machine where they can have a light, fun, engaging experience right in their pocket. So as you noted, we've moved away from single purpose game consoles, handheld or otherwise they still exist, but more and more what we see is the best games and the best game like experiences that might not be games but they the feel and the pull of games. Those are showing up on mobile phones like Samsung. >> And the screens are awesome. I'll say my Note 8 here is awesome and bigger and better and the graphics. But it's a generational shift too. Like my son was, we're designing a new app and we're kind of sitting at the drawing board and he's like, "Dad, you're a search generation. "No one searches anymore. "You actually type on the keyboard, that's like so old." So he brings up a point which is illuminated here. Which is you see voice touch, voice activation. Harman's got now the kind of interface with this audio. You're seeing cars all over the air with software. This is really the computer science, computer engineering culture interfacing with art. Where new user experiences are coming that quite frankly don't look the same. >> Exactly that's such a good point. So what's happening is that a lot of the user experiences, the back end neural networks, the AI, the sophisticated bots that we've been seeing in gaming for the last five or six years are trickling into the mainstream. And that's what you always see. Gaming is the canary in a coal mine. What we see now happening in games and what we saw a few years ago is becoming more mainstream. So if we look now at what's happening in gaming, that gives us a clue to 18 to 24 months out for app developers. >> Yeah we brought this up on day one. You nailed it. It's an early indicator. >> That's right. >> What are you seeing in that area? Because you're in the vanguard of the user interface so you have a computer science background. You understand how communities work. Which by the way, you look at anything from blockchain ICOs to game communities, community is the most important aspect right now in the world. The community role of the people are so important. You don't have a network effect. You don't have input output into the quote neural aspect of the interface because now people are involved. Not just software and data bits. I need a notification from my friend if they're right around the corner from me. So it's the role of people. >> Exactly, so I'm a multiplayer game designer. The teams I work with, because it's always a team effort, are multiplayer games. Rock Band, Covet Fashion is a more recent one. And so we've known for a long time in the gaming industry that if you want to drive deep lasting engagement, you need to create a multiplayer experience and some sort of community around that. What you'll hear gamers say is "You know, I'm kind of tired of that game "but my friends need me. "It's where my friends are, my team needs me." So that's part of what drives long term engagement. >> John: The socialization piece. >> Exactly. What we're seeing now and the opportunity I think for developers even outside of gaming is we're seeing the intersection of gaming, a style of gaming that's sort of I would call them gaming systems versus game mechanics. We're seeing gaming systems find their way into social media. Musical.ly is a great example. And Discord is another example. Discord is a platform started by gamers but now it's merging into just other people. That's for communication. Sort of like a next generation Slack but mobile and for gamers. Covet Fashion, a game I worked on with a brilliant team who actually came up with the idea at CrowdStar, really merged a cooperative game mechanic like you might see in say Portal 2 or Left for Dead with social media and very lightweight voting systems of the users themselves playing a crucial role in what's good or not. Just like in Facebook or in Instagram, your feed is going to show you what gets liked a lot, what gets popular. And games are starting to incorporate this too so that the players themselves become almost like the game pieces and become a big part of what's entertaining. We see networks like Twitch with a huge rush of popularity. That is people delivering entertainment to each other. It's not scripted. So this user generated content, this systems which let people be entertaining to each other, is the huge push that's going on in gaming. And we have, part of what makes a game so exciting, is when the game makes interacting with other people lower friction or more magical but it's still the people that makes it exciting. >> Amy Jo this is amazing. I think that you're right on it. Because remember when I was a gamer, single player game on the computer, you got bored. I mastered it. Then comes multiplayer. But you're bringing up a new dynamic which is the dynamic nature of the people themselves. And I think Twitch had an interesting experiment where the comments, which we know on Twitch are pretty bad, drove the game experience. So now you have the people being part of the input to the game itself. I mean isn't Life a game in a way? >> Sure, you could look at Life the game. I think that that's a semantic issue. There are people that really enjoy looking at life as a game And if you define a game as a structured activity with roles and goals, sure you could look at it that way. What I think is most exciting is not so much what is and isn't a game but the bleeding over of gaming systems into places like digital health and education and enterprise and fashion, and those are, and genealogy. Right now I have a client who's merging a game like experience with a genealogy crowd source experience. So I think what I'd like to leave you with and to understand is the first wave of this we called gamification where people got very excited about the visible markers of progress that are in games like points and badges and leaderboards. And that's a great opening door, but that's not where the magic is. Where the magic is is in the underlying systems that drive you toward mastery of something you care about. And that's the explosion we're seeing now. So you say what am I seeing? I'm seeing clients come to me, a game designer, in all kinds, banking, call centers, SaaS products, change transformation in companies as well as all kinds of consumer products, saying we tried gamification. It just worked in the short term. We want what makes games interesting in the long term. First of all you said the most important thing which is other people. But it's not just other people. It's other people in a playful and mastery based environment that helps you get better at something you care about getting better at. >> So this great so take me through what game system. What I hear you saying is, okay, people think of gamification as a one trick pony, a shortcut to something. You're taking a much more wholistic approach saying the game system. What does that mean? What is a game system? Because you're, what I hear you saying, is that this is like a fabric. It's not like, or an operating system maybe. How should people think of a game... >> It's a methodology or a system. A good way to think about this, are you familiar with design thinking? >> Mm-hmm. >> Are you familiar with an agile approach or Agile Lean UX? Those are systems. Those are methodologies. Those are approaches to creating great products. And they help you. Game thinking is similar. It's got elements of design thinking, elements of Agile, but it adds game design. The difference between strong game design and gamification is game design is about bringing systems to life from the inside out. And so game thinking is as much about how you bring your product to life as it is about anything that you put into the product once it's brought to life. Which is where gamification usually comes in. So it's really about building a learning architecture into the core of your game using feedback loops and using simple systems. And one more thing. Every complex system starts as a simple system that works. So it's really about building core systems and then bringing them to life with the right approach and the right people. >> It's like having a kernel or a small building block. If you overthink it you could get in trouble. >> Right. But you also have to have the right building block so you build a strong foundation. >> Yeah I remember the old days when game engines came out. There was no market for game engines when the first games came out. Then someone said hey why don't we just take the game engine and become a game engine. That was an interesting dynamic that spawned a lot of innovation. Is there an analogy to that happening now where there's new innovations that people can build on top of? Is it open source? Is there an equivalent? I'm trying to figure out where that next level up is going to be because right now we've gone like this and then we see a new level with AR and these new kinds of games and you're bringing this kind of integrated system approach is coming. >> Right so I think there's two thing that have to happen for those to take off. One of which is technology based. You have to have engines. So Unity's rise has been tremendous for the gaming industry. Many many simple game-like experiences are being built in Unity, not from scratch. And other tools like that. And then ARKit from Apple is causing an explosion of really interesting work happening, making it easier to create and experiment with an experience like Pokemon Go. So those are the bottom-up tools based changes that are really accelerating innovation in our industry. Now at the time, none of that will work if you don't have the customer demand and the customer hunger. So the other thing that's happening is that customers are being trained by Pokemon Go and things like that that oh, this is how AR could work. We've seen that VR has kind of stalled out but again, that's a special purpose hardware that's not something easy that you can get on your mobile phone in between all the other things you do. So I think it can't be overstated how powerful it is to have these platforms combined with a huge consumer base on mobile, with phones in their pocket, ready to have a compelling game-like experience that doesn't necessarily have to be a game. The world is waiting for those. >> Yeah and your point about VR, you don't want a build it they will come mentality. You got to focus on the magic formula which is-- >> Customer demand. >> Call it sticky. But some could say look it's got to be a utility and that mastery component is critical whether it's learning, friendship, or some human dopamine effect right. >> Well that's exactly what we do at gamethinking.io. We help teams and companies create a product that customers love and come back to from the ground up using gaming techniques. So anyone who's interested, that's what we do. And the reason we help people do that is it's hard, and it's incredibly high leverage. >> Yeah and you got to have the expertise to do it. And it really is. It sounds like gamethinking.io, you're going to bring architecture. It's not just going to be jump on the grenade that someone throws a project at you. Sure, if it's a big project maybe. But you're kind of train the trainer it sounds like, you're teaching people to fish if you will. >> It's product development. Gamification is often a marketing campaign. We're talking about product development. If you want to build lasting engagement and you're a product leader, then you can use these techniques to build it from the ground up but it's not a silver bullet. >> Give a plug for what you do at Shufflebrain about your company and share some advice for folks watching that might be interested. Like I want to transform my Web 2.0, my 1.0 web responsive app, or my offshore built mobile app that I hired someone to just iOS it and Android it. I want to actually build from the ground up a new architecture that's going to be, have a lot of headroom, I really want to build it from the ground up with good design thinking, game system, game thinking, with the game systems, all the magic potentially in there. What do they do? I don't know do you call the, you know there's no Yellow Pages anymore. Do you Google search it? >> Thank you that was a great setup because that's, I mean I wish that I had had this years ago when I doing a venture funded startup. I needed help. So that's why I do what I do. So what we do is take 20 years of what works and what doesn't in game and product design and turn it into a step by step toolkit with templates, instruction, training, and coaching. And let me give you a specific tip. So there's, it's a whole system we use, but one of the things that you do and if anybody wants to try this it will amaze you if you're able to do it right, one of the things that the greatest game designers, the Will Wrights and folks at CrowdStar and Harmonics, what they do is when they're bringing a new game idea to life, first of all they find out aggressively as much about what's wrong with their ideas, what's right with it, through iterative, low fidelity testing early. Secondly they test it on their superfans that shortcut for high need, high value, early adopters. Not your target market but people that can get you to your target market. Knowing how to find and identify and then leverage your superfans for very early product testing and iteration, that's how you bring your core systems to life. Not with your ultimate target market. Most people don't know this. Knowing this, and then finding those people and leveraging them will turn what's often a failure into success. >> John: That's gold. >> It's complete gold. Let me just tell you why. Because if you're able to ask very product-focused questions, again with my guidance, of these people, you can build your product around what you know they want rather than guessing. >> And you can also help the person, might have blind spot, your customer, understand what superfans are saying. Sometimes it's like they're just giving you the answer right there early on. >> That's such a good point. And when you're inside of it- >> And I have bias. I'm an entrepreneur. Oh no I want to hear what I want to hear. I'm going to change the world. (laughs) Not really. >> That's why when I was an entrepreneur I knew all this stuff but I needed a coach when I was doing this. Because you can't see outside of your bubble and that's part of the value of doing this. >> Amy, the URL is? >> Gamethinking.io. >> Gamthinking.io. Amy Jo is a coach, she is an entrepreneur, venture backed, probably has some scar tissue from that but now she's kicking ass and taking names on gamethinking.io. Great mind. Thank you for sharing an amazing tutorial. You know that's free consulting here on theCUBE right here from and expert. >> It's what I love to do. Thank you for having me. >> Amy Jo here on theCUBE. Live in San Francisco at the Samsung Developer Conference, I'm John Furrier back with more here in theCUBE after this short break. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from San Fransisco, it's theCUBE covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. >> Okay welcome back everyone here live in San Fransisco at Moscone West, is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Samsung Developer Conference #SDC2017. I'm John Furrier co-founder of SiliconANGLE media, co-host of theCUBE. My next guest is artist, director, and producer Rob Prior, at Robprior.com. Great to have you, thanks for spending time. >> It's good to be here. >> Alright. Great to have you. You're super impressive. I was amazed by the work behind me on the wide shot. Can we go to the wide shot? You can see the work you've done. You were just here behind us on the main Disruptor studio with Stan Lee who was Marvel Comics, legend in the industry. >> Legend. >> I mean absolutely legend. And he's here promoting, you know, the edge of the network with Samsung. Games and all that good stuff, part of the developer conference. >> Yeah. >> But you were up there painting with both hands in real time. And did this art. >> Yeah, it was less than an hour, I think this one was. I don't know I don't even keep track anymore. I'm just like... >> So you do both hands. So how did that come about? How did you get to the two hands? >> When I was about, alright, I was going to be an artist no matter what. My entire family line were artists, but none by profession. So, I was kind of not even given a choice. So I got to be about 10 years old and I thought the same thing that every 10 year old thinks, "what if I loose my right hand?". No 10 year old thinks that. So I switched at 10. I switched to, you know I was born a righty, I switched to be a lefty. I switched everything. I switched, you know, baseball, how I threw a balls, playing guitar. I switched everything over. So for two years, no mater how much any one begged me, to like, my grades were going down, cause no one could read my writing, cause I'm like... >> Cryptic. >> Yeah it was weird, and so at that point I made my left hand as good as my right hand. And I was published very young. I was published at 13, internationally at 15. And 13, when I got published, I had math homework due, and I had a painting, a cover due. And I'm like oh my god how am I going to do, I mean. >> Screw the homework, I'm going to do the painting. >> Yeah, so I picked up two brushes and I'm was oh yeah I can do this. Then I actually figured out that I could do my math homework and paint simultaneously. I shut my eyes apparently, when, I don't know when I do it, but when I paint, my eyes are shut a lot of the time. >> Wow, that's awesome. So great skills, so it gets it done faster, but it's also creative. Talk about your work, your artistry, cartoons. You started doing, what did you get into first? And how did your career evolve? Take us through the evolution of your career, because now in the tech scene, you're doing some awesome art, but we live in a digital world. >> Yeah. >> How's that? You're doing cartoons, covers. >> When I first started out, I was doing interiors. Like just pen and ink interiors. And then I started moving into color painted covers, and, you know, sort of gradually went from, you know from black and white work to full color work, to being, doing a lot of different magazine covers, book covers. You name it. I worked heavily with TSR, which is Dungeons and Dragons at the time. >> Yeah. >> And I just sort of moved forward and kept... >> And you got then you got to Hollywood started with movies. What movies did you work on? >> Oh my god, I've worked on a lot of low budget movies. I worked on TV series like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Firefly, Angel. God, so many. I mean, like literally that whole era of TV shows. You know, movie wise I've done stuff with Fast and the Furious. Wow, it's amazing, when you get asked, when you have a giant body of work. When you ask that question all I see are ducks going across. >> Well you just came off stage, so you're really in painting mode now, and you just did this painting. >> Yeah. And how long did it take you do this one? >> I'm sorry? >> This art, how long did it take you to do this one? >> This was a little under an hour. I painted one earlier as well on the main stage during the keynote speech. And that one took me 45 minutes or something like that. >> So they're giving their talk, and you're painting away. >> Yep. >> And you've done this at concerts? >> Yeah >> Tell us what other venues have you done? >> Things like this. I've done it with concerts. People like Tech N9ne, Linkin Park, you know, Steve Aoki, Flo Rida, just to name a few. So I do it while they're performing. So I'll do a full, like, four foot by eight foot painting in about an hour and a half. But when I'm doing gallery work it takes me about a day, maximum two days a painting. >> Yeah. Well you're considerable talent. You mentioned before we came on camera, you're going to do the Linkin Park memorial at the Hollywood Bowl. >> I am, I'm going to be painting there on the 27th, at the Hollywood Bowl. You know, there's going to be a lot of people there, just, you know I think they said the tickets sold out in, like, 39 seconds, or, it was crazy. >> Yeah. >> But I'm fortunate to be able to do that. >> Yeah. >> And pay my respects as well, so. >> Well great work you're doing. I'm really inspired by that because one of the things we're passionate about at SiliconANGLE and theCUBE here is social science, arts, and technology coming together. That's clearly a trend that's happening. I start see the younger generation too coming into this world, and certainly, you have four kids, I have four kids too. We talked about that earlier, but, they're getting immersed in this digital culture and might miss out on some of the analog art. >> Absolutely. >> And what's your thoughts on that, because, this is like, you do both right. >> Yes. >> So you get your hands dirty, I see your hands are dirty. >> Yep they're filthy. >> Good job, you really roll up your sleeves, little pun intended. So, this is the key to success. Share your thoughts and vision for the younger generation and other artists out there, because art will be the front and center piece of technology inspiration, user interface, gaming, augmented reality. >> No, absolutely, you know what, here's the thing. And this is something that you and I were talking about just a little bit ago. I think the, we as humans have a choice. You know, especially kids nowadays they can go and they can be fully immersed, but then they miss all the other things, you know. I've seen kids at tables texting each other instead of talking. But I think if you take the analog era, the thing, like the live painting. Cause I use, I'll take a picture of this I'll pour it into the computer, ill clean it up, and I'll do that. I think mixing the two worlds is vital, you know, in advancing forwards as humans. I mean that's just my opinion, I try to teach my kids that as well. >> Yeah. >> You can't forget about the real world. >> Yeah. >> Because the real world's going to be here no matter what. >> Yeah. >> So, you know- >> And then game developers are out there right now working on a lot of ideas, inspiration, you've drawn monsters before. >> Absolutely >> Some of the characters here from Marvel with Stan Lee. There is, do you need the creative spark? >> Oh absolutely. And look there are, creative spark, anything can be a tool. You know, so, the computer, doing computer art is an amazing opportunity to explore a new kind of tool, right? To invent and create new creatures or new things. It's all on how you use it. And then you get the people, I said this on stage the other day, you get people who are taking photos and then pressing 27 filters and calling it art. I think you have to go backwards and, once again, be able to do the analog. Write your story, create your idea and take any tool that's available and make it happen. Whether it's to picking up a paintbrush, whether it's getting on a computer on a Wacom tablet. >> So you think that's practice from a young artist standpoint is get down and dirty, get analog. >> Absolutely. >> And that's your inspiration sandbox, if you will. >> Absolutely, you know, and I think, here's an example. It's hard to have a gallery show of all digital stuff. Beause then it's just prints of things that you've done. There's no brush strokes, there's nothing there. And a lot of art collectors want to see the stroke. They want to know it's one-of-a-kind, that's it. >> Yeah the prototype. >> Yeah >> Or whatever the inspiration was. It's inspiring. >> Absolutely. So I tell all artistes, and even to the best computer artists, I'm like, go analog, get your hands dirty, paint. And let that speak as well. >> I've been lucky at my age to see a bunch of waves of innovation in technology. It's super exciting. I'd love to get your thoughts, from your perspective, and the artistry community, and you've been in L.A., over the past 10 years, maybe even 20, but say 10 an easier number. 10 years ago the Iphone wasn't even out, right? >> Oh god. >> So actually, 10 years ago it was the Iphone, but let's say 11 years ago. There was no Iphone, there was, YouTube just hit the scene. So this whole digital culture has just shifted. >> Oh absolutely. >> Apple was a no name company in 2000, right? Micheal Dell once said, " They should give the stock back to stockholders". (laughter) So Steven Jobs proved them all wrong. What is the scene like in your world around the last 10 years? What's been the disruptive change? Where's the enablement? What's been bad? What's been good? What's your thoughts? >> You know, in the art world itself, it's something I just mentioned, what's disrupted the art world, is people coming in and literally just being, what I call, a button pusher artist. You know, they figure out a filter or a tan, or whatever, they make art on their phone, and they're like. And that disrupts a lot of things. Because then it shows, or can teach, kids or artists, or anybody. People our age, whatever, it doesn't matter. That it's okay to do that and skip all of the steps, and I think that's the biggest point is the technology has allowed people to think they can skip steps, but you can't. You can never skip the step- >> What's the consequences of those steps skipping. What's the consequence there? >> So, if that's what you are, and you've figured out filters, and you get hired to do a job, because maybe you're the greatest filter button pusher in the world. But then all of the sudden your computer goes out. What do you do? >> Call Apple Care. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Cheese bar appointment. >> I know, I konw You're screwed basically. >> You are. I mean, I knew way back in the 20 years ago, if you were versed in drawing cars, and you got a job doing storyboards for a commercial, and all of the sudden they said, "Hey we're changing everything. Now we're taking out all the cars and now it's real people". If you're not good at drawing real people, you lost your job. Same basic concept. >> Yeah. >> You have to take it all in, you know, in a giant ball. And for the people who are like, "I don't want to touch a computer". Man, that's- >> So it works both ways. >> Absolutely works both ways. >> So what you're saying, if I get this right, is the computer's a great enable and accelerant of a finished product. >> Rob: Absolutely. >> So you use it, you'll take this print you did behind us, you'll touch it up, and you'll turn it into posters, you'll sell it, you'll syndicate it. >> Yep. >> Etcetera, etcetera, but you did the work here in an hour. With both hands. You did it just on the fly, total creative, creativity. >> Yeah, I mean, today's world, I think, if we let things go too much then the computer takes over and we loose a part of ourselves. >> And what about your social friends. Like musicians, you know? >> Oh my god. >> So what's the musician vibe, same thing? I mean tools are out there now, my son's doing some stuff on Ableton live, he loves that software suite, but he's still laying some guitar licks down. >> Absolutely, and you know, the great thing about in the music scene, I heard this a lot when Pro Tools first came out. Everybody was like, "That's the death of the producer". No, that was the beginning of a different kind of producer. And if you can do things at home and you're good, then it's great. >> What's the culture like in L.A. right now in terms of the creative producer, creator? Cause you've got like a maker culture on the geek side. Robotics, maker culture put stuff together, build some new things. Now you got a creator culture which builds off the maker culture, then you got the builder culture all kind of coming together. What's the success formula in your mind, besides the managing the tools. What's the mindset of the new producer, the new director, the new artist? What do you see as success points? >> These are some of the best questions I've ever been asked. Like, literally in every interview I'm answering the same ones. No, this is great. I think, I think it's a little bit of the wild west out in L.A., you know, and all over. Because, you're forming amalgamations. The director of a movie is no longer, possibly, just a director. He's also working on some of the cinematography. Maybe he's an editor, you know, it's a jack of all trades thing. And I think a lot of the people that had one trade going in, and were really good at it, are finding that they're getting passed up sometimes by the person who can do four or five different things including being able to be versed at technology >> Yeah we're seeing a lot of the things happen in the computer industry, just to share on my side of the table. Data scientist is the hottest job on the planet. Doing data. Some of the best data scientists are anthropologists. >> Really? >> Like weird majors in college. But they have a unique view of the data. They're not parochial in their thinking. They're looking at it differently. Or they have a math background, and obviously math is pretty important in data science, but also, it's not just prototypical, you got to be this spec. It's a little bit of a different artsy kind of a feel, cause you got to be, look at things differently. You got to be able to rotate around 360. >> And that's exactly it. That you've got to have, you got to be thinking outside of the box at all times nowadays. >> Well Rob what's next for you? What' going on? You got a lot of things going on. >> Rob: Oh wow. >> You got a lot of business ventures, you make a lot of money on your prints, you're famous. You're exploring new territory. What are some of the boundaries you're pushing right now creatively, that's really getting you excited? >> Well, I'm going to be directing a movie coming up. Which I find great because it allows me to take every bit of all the things I know and put it into a package, that's fun. I've got several gallery shows coming up. I've got a gallery show that I'll be doing with Stan, which will be New York and L.A. And, just getting on stage with more and more bands. You know, I think- >> You're a cult of personality, what's it like working with Stan? He's a cult of personality. >> Oh my god, Stan is, Stan's great. >> People yelling stuff at him, "hey what do you think about that". I mean there's a lot of culture in the Marvel Comics world. >> Oh man he, you know, and look he's like what, 95. And he's got more energy than I do. Literally last night, we're all out to dinner and I left before everybody else did. Stan outlast me. A 95 year old guy, and I'm like, "I'm too tired, I got to go to bed". And Stan's still going, you know. >> The energizer bunny. >> He's an animal. >> Well great for coming on. Thanks for the inspiration. Great art, got amazing art right here >> Thank you so much for having me man. >> Great job, congratulations. >> Thank you >> Good to see the arts. Analog and the digital worlds connecting. This is the key to success in the technology business. Bringing an artisan mindset to great technology for vital benefits. That's what theCUBE believes, we believe it. And so does Mr. Prior here. Check out the art, robertprior.com. Check it out. Robprior.com. It's theCUBE live from San Francisco. More after this short break. >> Thanks for having me.

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. (electronic music) >> Welcome back everyone. Here live in San Francisco, Mascone West. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage live video here at Samsung Developer Conference, #SDC2017. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media and co-host of theCUBE. My next guest is Dean Takahashi, who is the lead writer for GamesBeat for VentureBeat big blog covering business and innovation technology. Obviously, been a journalist and writer covering mobile and mobile gaming for a long time. Legend in the Silicon Valley community. Dean, great to see you. >> Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the kind intro. >> People who follow you know, you've been out there in the front line looking at the evolution of gaming obviously, from gaming and then obviously mobile gaming hit a thing. Then gen 2, gen 3. I don't know what generation we're on, but certainly Samsung is converging. That's their message here. Trying to keep these smart things, the cloud message a little bit of an IOT. Feels like an enterprise show a little bit. But, at the end of the day, it's the consumer connection. >> It's all coming together now >> It's all coming together. What's your rapport? What are you seeing? What are you reporting on? >> Well, I cover everything from the smallest startups, including the small game companies. I try to pay attention to Silicon Valley in general. And then the big companies as well. So, the relationships pertain to developers, who are on the small side to the platform owners on the big side. And, I see a really big war going on among all the platform owners. They're trying to get the hearts and minds of those developers. They're trying to bring in, trying to do what Samsung is doing. Which is integrate a lot of different things onto their platform. And, we'll see how much sort of openness is sort of left at the end of this. Or how much of a commons there is across the whole tech landscape, or the whole game industry. And I don't know who's going to win, who's going to own it all. But, everybody's trying. >> It's a war. Platform wars immediately. The device here, my new Samsung 8 is nice. It's got a big screen. It's gameable. Mobile gaming obviously hot. But again, the platform wars are interesting. Now they have the living room, they've got the kitchen, the smart family hub. All this stuff they're talking about. They had the smart TV for a while. The question that I have is, developers don't want hassles. They want the distribution and all the goodness of the big vendor, but one of the things Samsung seems to be trying to create is this unified fabric of breaking down the stovepipes within their company. Problem is, developers won't tolerate different API documentation. This is an issue we've heard from developers here in theCUBE is how does Samsung do that? Because that'll really be, that's the kryptonite for developers. That'll keep the super developers away. >> Yeah. Like the announcement they had here about the Internet of Things and trying to sort of integrate three different standards down into one is the kind of move that you have to make or you have to seek. Some of these come in through acquisitions but, yeah. The developers don't want to mess around with the multiple APIs. >> It's interesting. We cover, as you know, we cover a lot of the enterprise and the emerging tech with SiliconANGLE and theCUBE, and we see the enterprise is clear, right? DevOps, the cloud native, the Linux foundation. Those worlds are exploding. Open source is exploding. And then you got companies like Intel, which cares about field programmable gate arrays and 5G. Enabling that end to end. And then you've got the consumer companies whether it's Ali Baba or Samsung or a Google or an Apple, really caring about the device side. So, everything is kind of coming into the middle where cloud is the engine, right. So, the interesting thing I'd love to get your perspective on, Are developers sensitive to the fact that they can have more compu because augmented reality, even virtual reality. We've had one VIP influencer here on theCUBE say VR is done. 1.0 is done. But we learn from it. It didn't really hunt. It didn't really go off the shelves. But augmented reality is hotter, because it's more realistic. Drones are using augmented industrial IOT. >> Augmented reality has a nice launch pad, right. It's got a long runway off of smartphones. You create your app for smartphones and eventually it's going to run on all these other new things that come out, like the glasses. Once those are established, that's great. But in the meantime, the apps and developers can sort of make this living on the smartphone. >> So it's not a big bad like a Google Glass where it just kind of crashes and burns >> Yeah. >> Kind of thing. So they can get some beach head with mobile. >> Yeah. >> So the question for you is how vet the signal from noise on companies. Obviously you look for the ones that have more of a pragmatic business model. Get in on mobile gaming. Obviously Google is on stage with Android. So you're starting to see more openness with APIs. Differentiating from Apple, ecosystem, which it is what it is. How do you see companies differentiating and being real? >> Signal from noise, you do look at everything from who their alliances are with, to how many people, do they have enough people to get the job done? Do they have the funding? It's sort of figuring out whether the team has experience at what they're doing. So, a lot of the basics of journalism. Just finding out facts about a company. >> So, Magic Leap. Have you dug into those guys? I saw the funding news yesterday. Another $500 Million. >> Yeah. >> I haven't seen the product. I haven't seen the demo. I'm not covering gaming like you are. But you have seen their demo. Have you? >> I haven't seen their demo. >> I think a half, a half a million dollars more. That's a war chest. >> Yeah. They're out in Florida. So they're a bit far from me. They are very lucky to have convinced someone to give them some additional money. When they've burned through a billion dollars plus already so, $1.4 billion >> Insane. And nothing to show for it. >> $500 million more, yeah. And they're very ambitious and that's good but, >> It better be good. >> They almost seem like they were trying to say we're going to accelerate and beat Moore's Law. We're going to do something impossible, put these things into little glasses and it's going to be amazing. It's going to be like, so you can't distinguish augmented reality from reality, right? And surprise, surprise, you can't really rush Moore's Law. >> And by the way that's, I'm surprised they're not in Silicon Valley because it seems like that's a go big or go home strategy. Certainly, a billion dollars they've burned through, another half a billion. No one can do that. It's hard to do. So, back down to the more pragmatic ecosystem, you're seeing Samsung here. I like their approach. I think that it's a good strategy. They didn't overplay their hand at the show on talking about where the data resides. That was one thing I'm still not seeing but maybe they're going to bring that out later. Maybe it's not ready yet. The cloud, I didn't really see the cloud story there as much. I don't know what that means. So, those are open discussion points for me. But, certainly leveraging the device, leveraging the distribution is what they're offering. But then they made a comment here on theCUBE, "We're open." What does that mean? I mean Android's obviously got a benefit of being open. But what does open mean to you and how do you see that? >> I think that, you could argue that for smart things where it's connecting to something like an Invidia Shield. And you can use the remote control on an Invidia Shield to change your lighting, or something like that. So, it's sort of overlapping circles of certain, you know, I don't know if that's open. But it works. If you deliver something that works, your consumers, you know, it's relatively open. >> Yeah. And the glam is obviously electronics. Consumer electronics base. You've got a little bit of the IOT. I find this fascinating story of the IOT because people are things too. I mean, you're walking around with the phones. We have the fashion tech happening. And obviously gaming. Alright, what's the big surprise for you here at the show. Give me some positive review. What you liked about it, and what critical analysis, where they need to improve. What are some of your thoughts? >> I think there is always sort of that challenge for a big company like this that has a worldwide consumer base. How much do they want to cater to or appeal to the hardcore crowd? So, say like gaming and non-gamers is a good example of that. And they're not really trying to get everybody in gaming onto their platform or onto their side. They're saying that they're welcome. They can come. We've built this as an all-purpose sort of platform. And, they're not going out to invest in a lot of the game companies. They didn't put money into Magic Leap. They're not sort of trying to pull people in and >> They're not giving the hard sell. >> Yeah. The challenge then is that other companies are. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo of course are doing it. But Amazon, Google, even Apple to some degree is embracing a lot of gamers on the game platforms. Making their platforms fairly friendly. So, I think Samsung needs to decide whether it's going to step up in that space. Other territories, yeah. It's on a very good march, I think. To continuously come out with new tech that gets widely adopted. They're doing well in VR. But I think, it almost seems like they've embraced 360 video a lot more than they have on the game side. >> We'd certainly love to get those 360 cameras here. Apple versus Samsung. Obviously, World Wide Developer Conference is legendary. Samsung 4th year now doing this event. Compare, close, getting there, leveling up? >> Well, I think Apple's event was underwhelming in a lot of ways as far as just what they announced. And say even the performance of the phones. It doesn't really, it's kind of flatish compared to the performance of Samsung phones. I think Samsung has maybe a broader following and broader base. And they have the potential to draw >> And Android's global appeal >> draw more >> is pretty interesting. >> Yeah, draw more developers over who might find it easier. >> Interesting to see the psychographic profile of developer makeup from Apple and Samsung. Dean, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Dean Takahashi here inside theCUBE. Lead writer for GamesBeat, part of VentureBeat blog in Silicon Valley. Check them out, VentureBeat.com. Of course you've got siliconangle.com and thecube.net. That's our content there. This is theCUBE live coverage from Samsung Developer Conference. I'm John Furrier, right back with more after the short break. >> And also plug our GamesBeat conference. >> GamesBeat conference. >> GamesBeat Summit in April. April 9th and 10th in Berkeley. >> Yep, get the plug in. GamesBeat Conference in April. Check it out. Dean co-chairs the committee for getting the great content. Hardcore gamers, thought leaders. Check out GamesBeat Summit in April. Of course, this is theCUBE live coverage here in San Francisco. More after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's theCube. Covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, this is theCube's exclusive live coverage of Samsung Development Conference, SDC 2017. I'm John Furrier, the founder, co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, co-host of theCube. My next guest is Kevin Hague, Vice President of Technology Strategy at Harman, now part of Samsung. His twitter handle is JSGuy. Welcome to theCube. >> Thank you, thank you having me. >> So HARMAN has a lot of cool things. Obviously, you're known for music, audio, in-car stuff, headphones, really the premier audio tech. >> Kevin: Yes, yeah. >> So give us the update. Part of Samsung. When did that happen? What have you guys done? Have you integrated in to the edge of the network? Is entertainment. >> It is these days. And it seems like more and more people are becoming interested in audio. Audio's becoming, you know, a big part of everybody's lives. Everybody will have headphones at work, connected devices at home, with AIs and voice assistance in their car. You know, we're huge in the car. A huge percentage of our automotive business is in audio, and infotainment, IVI systems, and we're really excited to be here at the Samsung Developer Conference, because this is our first conference, kind of together, and we're excited to show off a lot of cool developer tech. >> So we're huge on internet of things. I've been saying this for years, but now it's so clear to the developer community that internet of things includes people. Wearables, we had guests on doing dresses that are part of the internet, and technology with robotic arms and software. But headphones, you guys have a cool program called Hack Your Headphones. Which, tell a little about that, and then we'll talk about this new product that's here on the desk, I can't wait to get to, but >> Yeah, we have a couple of new products >> Hack your headphones, I mean, you got to get developers excited, because augmented reality and virtual reality, no one wants to put those damn goggles on. And it's got no audio. >> That's right. Yeah, so we're trying to fix that with this particular product, which is the JBL Everest Elite headphones. And it's probably one of the first consumer hackable headphones. We have an API, out for Android, that allows the developer to control many of the features and functions of this headphone. And we've added a lot of extra features, so this thing not only, when you put it on, and you're wearing virtual VR goggles, you're immersed, right? And you don't even know what's going on in the outside world. Well, we've come up with some tech that allows some of the outside world to come in programmatically. So within a game, or a VR game, or a VR application, you can do something where the outside noise can be added in to the gameplay. So let's say if you're playing Fruit Ninja, or something really crazy on your VR goggles, and you're about to hit somebody, it could warn you through audio signals. So we're really excited about these headphones, lots of other features that developers would like. >> So let's talk about the API, because this is a really cool feature, and I want to get to that again, the new thing, new device that's coming out of this new, breaking news here on theCube, which is, these headphones, is about, you guys have the normal coolness around, noise canceling, all that stuff, but you guys have tech that actually lets developers play with the settings. >> Kevin: That's right. >> So you actually reverse the settings. Right? Like, imagining, like, okay, what if I want to increase the noise out that comes in. Is that the concept? >> That's right. And so we can adjust, the developers can adjust, almost an infinite levels, the noise ratio from outside to inside. So if you want it perfectly quiet, you can set that. If you want it where a lot of outside noise is coming in, you can adjust that as well, without having to do this to talk to somebody. >> It's almost tap your phone, tap your app, or have some notifications sensing, so you're looking for creativity from the developer community. >> That's the objective. >> We are. And we don't actually know what developers are going to do. I always have a saying, that says, If I put ten of my smartest guys in a room for a week, they're going to come up with a 100 ideas. If I throw this out to the developer community, they're going to come up with a 1,000 ideas, and I think that's what we're looking for, is that kind of creative spark, and we're just going to give them platform to do that on. >> And that's super smart, because now you can let the creative development community tinker around, and kick the tires. You guys get the free access to the creative, but also you have APIs that make it kind of stable. >> That's right. And that's that something that we support. We love developers to play with. >> Alright, so now you have a new product. So this is the exclusive Cube coverage. So let's see this new product. >> Actually, we just sent boxes right before coming on set. >> Here, let me introduce this thing. So this is looks like a collar. Goes around your neck. So, first of all, what's the product name? >> So this is a JBL Sound Gear, and it's going to be available starting next month. So this is, as far as I know, the first one in the United States. I can't say that for sure, but that's the first one I've seen in the United States. >> So it looks like one of those old football collars, but you put it around like this, and it allows for music to come up only to my ears, right? Actually, let's turn on the music, and then they'll actually get to hear through my little headset here. >> Kevin: Yeah, we'll just throw something on. There's a little, it's kind of cranked up, actually. >> Okay, so this is cranked up. Can you hear this? >> Kevin: Just a little bit. >> So he can barely hear this. I'm, like, talking loud. >> Kevin: Yeah, yeah, that's right, because it's pretty loud to you. >> So I could be a gamer, I could be doing virtual reality with a headset. This is kind of like my ear experience, without and freeing my arms up. >> Yeah, that's right. And the nice thing is, we're looking in the future, and seeing augmented reality-type experiences are going to be important. But with augmented reality, you want that kind of pass through. So I want to be able to talk to you while you have your glasses on, or whatever the future brings us. >> So I can get a little notification, bing, you got this car coming, or about to get attacked by my app. >> Yeah, imagine walking down the street. Now you can listen to your music while walking down the street, and not worry about getting hit by a car or something. >> Or pissing people off. Hey, turn your headphones on! Or having some ambient noise coming in so I'm aware. >> Kevin: Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah, that's cool. >> And so that's a really exciting product. >> They're not that flexible. >> Yeah, it's a little bit. So I think a lot of people put it on from the side and twist it around, but it's actually a pretty solid product, and we're, you know, it's a transformative product. There's nobody else shipping anything like this that I know of. >> So it has a little bit of wiggle, but it's not, you could break it if you snap it, like a chicken bone. >> Kevin: Yeah, don't do that. As far as I know it's the only one in the United States. >> You can just throw it too, it's like horseshoes. Just toss it. >> We have other uses. Yes, we made it multiuse. >> Don't toss it. It's not horseshoes. That's awesome. And you've also got a little pow here, but also now, the problem with some of these devices is on, watching TV, or interfacing with a large screen, there's latency issues and if people are talking, and you're hearing it separately. A lot of internet streamings we see that. It's not like direct connected. >> Kevin: Yes. >> Talk about that. How does that address that? Does it have a feature where you could create a low latency connection to something that's either on the internet or TV? >> Sure, so there's a couple of different ways, so like audio latency's very important, especially if you're watching TV, and lip sync, it's always weird if you get that delay, and so, that's why we actually pair with this in the box comes a low latency transmitter. So it's plug and play, plug it into your TV, turn on this, it pairs up. Now you can watch TV seamlessly in the house without disturbing like everybody. >> I can watch my football games, make some dinner, lunch, whatever. >> Or even late night TV, somebody's asleep in the same room as you, and it won't disturb them, right? >> My wife, Linda, Linda, if you're watching, this is perfect, save our marriage. Turn the TV off! Maybe not that. But it'll be a first step, but this is exactly the use of these. Create a personal space, and the technology as it shoots up from the sides. >> Yeah, there's two speakers on each side. >> And it shoots up to the ear, so it comes up this way. >> That's right. And we do a lot of work to make sure that the beam of sound stays in the vertical space, so that a lot of people can't hear it from outside maybe three feet. Literally, when you first put it on, I couldn't even tell it was working, and I was going, can you hear it? And you're like, oh, it's loud! And so. >> And the folks listening heard it to, 'cause my microphone was right there. >> That's right, yes, and that's the side effect, is in this area here, you have full. >> Okay so this product >> Full awareness. >> will be shipped and it's called the >> AVL Sound Gear. >> Sound Gear, it's available next month. >> Next month. >> In Best Buy retail. >> Best Buy retail. MSRP I think is going to be 249. >> Which includes some accessories, right? >> It includes a couple of accessories, like the streaming unit and everything. >> Yeah, that's awesome. So it's not going to break the bank. >> I don't think so. >> Good. Well, so that's a good price point, I'm definitely going to buy one. >> It's definitely different. It's not like just a regular pair of headphones. This is also available in the stores today, the 750. >> And how about this being developer enabled? API's for this, too, or not yet? >> Not yet, but stay tuned. >> This is the total Star Trek device. >> Kevin: It is. >> If you're a Star Trek classic fan like me, you know the thrall collars. (laughter) >> Kevin: That's awesome. >> And certainly, I can use this. It's got voice in there just so I can talk to it, like on conference calls? >> That's right. You can do a conference call with it, or. >> Have intercommunications on gameplay, multiplayer? >> That's right. >> So yeah, I think gamers are going to love this. >> I think so, too. >> Yeah, my son plays Call of Duty and Destiny. >> It's very comfortable to wear. I think that's one of the key things, is once you get it on, it feels like, when I've tried some of our early prototypes of it, I forgot that I was even wearing it. >> I can listen to theCube music while talking to the guests. >> Kevin: I know, we need to get you one of these. I mean, we'll get you one soon so you can try it. >> Promotional considerations by Samsung. >> Kevin: That's right. >> Kevin, thanks for coming on, great tunes, old school classics. Yeah, crank it up a little bit more, we'll end on some music. Kevin Hague, Vice President of Technology at Harmon, (upbeat music) Samsung. Bringing all the developer action to you here, theCube. >> Kevin: Thanks for having me. >> Alright. More after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's the Cube, covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017, brought to you by Samsung. (electronic music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome back, live here in San Franscisco, Moscone West. This is the Cube's exclusive coverage of Samsung's Developer Conference. I'm John Furrier, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, cohost here in the Cube. My next guest is Paris Rain, recording artist, innovator, working with Stan Lee, music projects. What's exciting about this event is that you have such exciting new lifestyle trends happening and this one here's a great story. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you very much. It's nice being here with everybody. >> You look fabulous, you're a superhero. Tell us the story, because one of the things that's super compelling about your projects you're working on, and your innovation, is the convergence of culture. You've got Comic Con kind of culture integrated with music, online services, digital communities, and now new products are being developed, new experiences, AR, VR, the new vibe is out there. Tell your story. >> Well, we just thought, why not? So what happened was, my manager had a really close relationship to Stan and he basically showed Stan my music and said, "Hey, this girl's talented," and then we got to talking and we were like, "Why don't we integrate Stan into the music business?" He took over the movie industry, why doesn't he take over the music industry as well? >> And so Marvel obviously absolutely hits a home run, the comics, but this is now also a digital life, and so people look at all the successes, certainly the movies. >> Absolutely, yeah, that would be the biggest. >> I was a comic kid when I was growing up. But the movies have just been spectacular. One sequel after the other. Gaming now is part of the movie scene, so gaming culture is huge, and you're doing a game with Samsung, that's something you've got going on, what's that about? >> I can't say too much about it, to be honest with you, but we're in preparation with Samsung on this new, innovative, high tech, app that's coming out, and it's going to be integrated to, I mean, everything's going to come together, it's going to have my music in it, it's going to have, Stan's going to make a cameo, in that, in the game, and in my music video as well, and yeah it's all coming together. >> So that's coming out. You can't really talk, it's under wraps, but it's an integrated project. You've been successfully into viral videos, a couple years ago that went viral on YouTube. What's that like, do you just like wake up one day and say, "Oh my God, this is going crazy?" >> It kind of happened like that with YouTube. Because you do it all yourself. I worked with Afflux Studios, it's in Wellington. They're a really awesome studio, super high tech and I got kind of an in, they're kind of family to me, and so it was kind of ... It was really easy to get with them anyway so we were like, "Hey, I did the blue hair thing." And I was like, "You know what? "I'm set on going viral, this is what I want to do." And the first video I put out, bitch better have-- B better have my money. (John laughs) By Rihanna. >> We're the internet. You can say whatever you want. >> Oh, fuck it. Bitch better have my money. Oh shit, really, I can swear? Oh I feel so much more comfortable now. On stage, I felt so ... So yeah, "Bitch Better Have My Money" came out and it got like 1.5 million, or 1.3 million views, and then I did another video and it got another 1.3 million. >> All right, so what happens after, because everyone wants to know. 'Cause everyone tries to engineer viral, and you can't really engineer viral, 'cause viral is one of those things where-- >> Dye your hair blue, sell your soul. >> (laughs) Okay, you sold your soul. Who bought it? The Devil? (laughs) >> The Devil, yeah, the Devil bought it. No. >> Well, you got to tell. >> No, for real, like honest talk right now. What you have to do is go on the top charts and pick one of your favorites, something that is completely not you, or you, but you have to do it a different way, so what we did, was I work with a producer who's super awesome, his name's Arcaeus, and we remixed it. And you know how remixes are huge? So we were like, "Why don't we do a remix cover?" and then it blew up and that's what happened. >> So now that you're on Stan's radar, he's got the whole, you know, he's been around the block, he's a legend in the community. His success is off the charts. What's his creative mind like right now? How are you guys looking at the mark offs? You're integrating music with comics. >> With comics and with gaming, that's, I mean, you just nailed it. >> So what's the creative scene like, do you guys sit back, do you kick back? What do you talk about? >> Stan's really big on making the powers unique, and he always has been really great on making sure that the powers are unique, so that's right now, we're still in the preparation stage of everything, but we're, we want to, we're prepping with Marvel right now. I have to say all the right words in order to not get in trouble. >> PR handled. (they laugh) >> We're prepping with Marvel to go into one of their storylines that I can't say. I can't say too much. >> Yeah. All these licensing things are going on. I've always been fascinated with how it's about time that the comics and Marvel really start expanding and start franchising the gaming because we were talking yesterday with one of the guests influencers about how the gaming culture really is a precursor to how life is evolving. You got multiplayer, it is virtual, you got virtual currencies, you have things happen on gaming, so it's a natural extension to move into gaming. How does the music piece, I mean, do you guys have licensing stuff? You must have to get authorizations. Is it indie, what's ... >> Well, it would be my music that's on the game. >> So you're doing your own music for the game. >> So I'd just be paying myself, essentially. >> You're licensing your movie? >> Yeah. >> All right. So here's another question for you. What's the weirdest thing that's happened to you in the past year? >> This interview right here. No, I'm just joking. >> (laughs) It's great for me too. >> No, it's Stan calling me up and saying, "Hey, I want to make you a superhero." That's the weirdest thing I've ever gone through. >> What's it like in the L.A. scene for you? >> I don't go to L.A. too much. I don't, but I am moving out there next month, so I will be in the L.A. scene. The L.A. scene's crazy, from what I've seen, from what I've seen about the scene. Yeah, it's crazy. >> So what's the plans for you and Stan the next couple months? What are you guys going to be working on, heading down, doing the tour, creative-- >> I think we're going to a couple Comic Cons. Potentially getting inducted into the music industry by a big player in the hiphop culture who, I can't say his name. There's a lot of big things, but it's mainly just preparation right now, we're just talking about everything, what we all want to do, and making sure that the gaming app with Samsung, which is why we're here today, it's like that's a huge thing, Jackie, Jacqueline Chow whose mobile game, it's a mobile game, so the game, the music, and hopefully eventually movies, but and the comic books, oh! You know what I think is really cool? I think that we're going to do a comic book on like a tablet version or a mobile version of the comic books, and I don't know if you've seen, I forget what it's called, but it's like a tilt screen comic book that's really, it's really innovative? I'll have to show you the app after, but it's, I think we're going to do something like that, 'cause people don't buy comic books, people don't buy books, they don't go to the store, they don't go to the library, I mean, I do, but they don't, you know? They go on their phone and they pay for it. >> Phone is where the action is, for the kids. All right, so what's exciting you these days? Obviously, you must be pretty pumped. Things are rocking. >> Yeah. >> What's on your mind these days? >> What's on my mind these days? >> Yeah, what are you excited about? >> Sitting beside Stan and just talking about this stuff. Honestly, performing, I'm super excited about the show, 'cause I want the show to be, I mean, if I'm a superhero, it's got to be heroic. >> Can you share your superpowers? What's the ... >> I can't! I can't, but I am a singer so I think obviously we're going to roll with the singing 'cause I think, I mean, naturally singing, performing, I think is almost like a human superpower that we have. >> So what's the event? Give us your take on the event here. Obviously Samsung is a big part, and congratulations, nice gig to have there. Congratulations, so you've got the app coming on, we'll dig into that, we'll look forward to the news when it comes out. But the vibe here, this developer community. We see high school kids here, I saw some eight year olds here. I mean, this is like an awesome developer conference. >> It is! When I was on stage with Stan, it was like, we had five minutes left, and I was kind of, you know, we had gone through all of the questions that we'd prepared, and I was like, "Hey, guys, if anyone "has any questions, please raise your hand," or whatever, and just kids, it was all, it was like mostly kids at first and then the adults are like, oh well we can do too, but the kids were like, "Stan, what do you think about DC?" and he was like, "DC who?" It was hilarious. >> So next year, "Rain, what do you think about ..." So you're going to be popular, congratulations. Thank you for coming on and chatting with me. This was great, with Rain Paris, here at the Cube live, from San Francisco for SDC, you got games coming out, music converging with comics, this is the culture. More after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: From San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. (cheerful music) >> Welcome back everyone, live here from San Fransisco, Moscone West, at the Samsung Developer Conference, 2017 #SDC2017. I'm John Furrier, cohost of theCUBE, co-founder of Silicon Angle Media. My next guest, Hilary Karls, Senior Software Engineer at Uber. Great to have you on, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> Great to have a female engineer for Uber, pun intended. In all seriousness, thanks for coming out, appreciate it. >> Oh, my pleasure. >> Love talking tech here; Samsung obviously is huge with Android, that's what you do. What do you do with Uber? Let's get that out on the table. What's your role at Uber as an engineer? >> I'm an Android engineer, I work on UberEATS, which is our food delivery product. I've been at Uber for about three years now. So I've gotten to see UberEATS grow from just a tiny operations experiment, in LA, all the way up to being in over 120 cities and having its own app. >> Uber's got that great culture; trying new things. Love the iteration and our family uses the competitor, DoorDash, and I can't wait for UberEATS to come to Palo Alto. Is it in Palo Alto yet? >> Yeah, it is. >> I better try it out. Bring me a discount, can you send me a little discount code? >> Yeah, I can definitely send you a discount code. >> Okay good, got that out of the way. Got my free phone here from Samsung, as well. Thank you Samsung for the free phone. So let's talk about Samsung, obviously this is a developer's conference, you're on the front line, building the app on the Android side. >> Yeah >> Google was on stage yesterday so there it is, it's all out there, Samsung innovating with the handset. Great reviews on the new 8, great screen. This is an Apple-esque going on here. They're there, they got an iOT strategy, so they're bringing together lifestyle. >> Yeah. >> Okay, this is the new user experience. Okay, so has Android gone up? They got Bixby. >> They got Bixby, yeah. >> What's your experience with Android and developing in the environment? >> Well I've been developing on Android for about four or five years now, and it's wonderful. It's open, it enables you to actually go and build. Using more of the APIs and having more ability to connect into the phone itself. To be honest, I love it. It's one of those where you actually get to take your ideas and ship it out to a much broader range of people. >> Build things that are still very very beautiful and very usable to people. >> I was talking with Sam Ramji, who's heading up Cloud product management at Google, as well as, developer programs across Google. We were talking at VM World, and I know their conference is more Cloud oriented. >> Hmm Hmm >> Talking about the user experience and Google is hyper-focused on building open-sourced libraries. >> Hmm Hmm >> So Google is going to be contributing all this goodness, you got the tensor flow, you got all this innovations going on at Google, that's translating to the edge of the network, we're seeing that with Samsung. House devices are great, you got TVs that are known for that, but connecting the smart things is really their strategy. As a developer, how do you look at that landscape, because you're looking at now tons of open source goodness coming in, from Google and then the communities, Android leveling up on capability. >> Hmm hmm >> And with the open APIs, where do you try to navigate, how do you extract the signal from the noise in the community? >> Well basically, you look for whatever libraries are actually used very heavily by people that have latest commands. If it comes from something like from Google, or from other really strong reputed open source players, like Square, you'll end up seeing adoption of that a lot more. When you then go into internet of things, it becomes also like how you see community - the chicken and egg thing. Is this the best opportunity to go for right now? Is the community there, can I monetize this? How do you integrate it? >> Yeah, that's the big question, what's the integration? So let me ask you a question on the Android. In your opinion, Android, Apple IOS, leveled up, in terms of capability? >> Pretty much, yeah. >> What's the difference between IOS and the Android, if you could explain to someone that's knocking on the door of both developer communities. >> Well basically, I would go for who you were trying to go for first. Are you trying to target the U.S, and trying to target that higher end of consumer? Or are you trying to have a mass appeal? For a lot of small start-ups, I'd actually say go IOS first, it makes sense. But when you want to bring it to the global market that's when you really, really, really need Android. When you want to bring it to places around the world where there are more Androids than IOS, that's definitely something that just needs that core experience. >> Is there anything that Android has, because it seems to me that Android has a lot more unique opportunities to customize. >> Yes. >> I think that seems to appeal to developers. When I look at our data, we look at our audience, I'll see the general purpose, I call general purpose Apple because Apple is like fine jewelry. Everyone wants to have the high-end suits, and the high-end code, whatever. But, you don't have the flexibility because it's kind of a walled garden from Java's standpoint. You have the open garden with the Android, that community, their playing more in open source, you're seeing block chain, you're seeing all these kinds of cool communities. What are some of the things that Android offers in this open approach that you like? Is there things that jump out at you? >> Well a lot of it's the ability to get customized, to have better security controls, to have widgets on your home screen. From a developer's standpoint, to have more flexibility about when you ask for permissions vs. when you don't. Also, the richness of the notifications, we've had that for a while on Android. It's like you can do actions and have things animate and keep things like progress bars on there for quite some time and IOS is finally catching up to that. >> And you're happy with Android? >> Oh, very much so. >> Alright, so what's your take on this show at Samsung? What's your vibe on the show, feeling, they got some good stuff? When do they need to work on things? >> Ummm. >> Give me the positive review and then give me the critical what they can do better? >> Yeah, I think actually bringing everything together in a connected cloud makes a lot of sense. Developers don't really like fragmented APIs. If you have to actually go talk to five or six different services to get something done, that's a lot more effort and a lot more overhead of understanding of how to connect to each one. So bringing it all together in one place, especially if that can have the overhead of, handle the overhead, making it secure, and doing data storage, and all that stuff, makes a lot of sense. >> Awesome. Hilary, final question for ya, personal question, put you on the spot here. What's the coolest thing you've built this past couple of years? That you coded, could be anything. >> Ohhh. >> What's the coolest thing that you feel >> Personally? >> Yeah. >> Alright, so I guess it was a year and a half now, there was a team of four of us that build the new Android Eats app. Built it from scratch in about three and a half months It was a team that was magical and never happens in Silicon Valley. It was three women and a latino dude, and we shipped it. >> No way. >> Yeah. >> Three months? >> Yeah, three and a half months. Starting in September, shipping early. >> We're talking, on the drawing board, on the design, >> Yeah. Literally, start to end. First line of code in early September, end of code writing, like wrapping and shipping it up right before Christmas. >> That's the new format, three women and a latino dude. (laughing) Congratulations, anything you'd like to share with the audience about the development scene here, what you're thinking about, what you're passionate about? >> I really really loved the piece of using technology to build more human connection, better humanity. I thought that was amazing; that piece was really inspiring to me. >> This is the new lifestyle tech is coming. The consumerization, blending analog, and digital together. This is the new normal from fashion tech, to UberEats. Congratulations, thanks for coming on theCUBE, Hilary Karls, Senior Software Engineer at Uber. This is theCUBE's live coverage of Samsung Developer Conference 2017, in San Francisco. I'm John Furrier, we'll be back with more after this short break. (cheerful music)

>> Announcer: From San Fransico, it's TheCUBE. Covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. (light electronic music) >> Hi everyone, welcome to day two coverage of the Samsung Developer Conference, or SDC 2017. I'm John Furrier, co-host of TheCUBE, co-founder of siliconANGLE Media. I'm here with Anouk Wipprecht. Hard to say last name, but I have a hard time with my Rs. It's an east coast thing. Welcome to TheCUBE. >> Thank you so much! >> So I'm super excited to chat with you, because you're doing some really innovative things around fashion tech, which we think is going to be at the cusp of a whole new revolution of fashion embedding tech. Before we get started, I have some pointed questions, so to speak. >> Yeah. >> Talk about what you're working on. People might not know some of your dresses, the spider dress has been famous. Talk about your work, and we'll jump into it. >> Yeah, I work as my own self owned fashion and technology, so the combination of fashion and technology. Some of my dresses, they are bleeding in, they are serving cocktail shots, they are attacking, really, with mechanic spider legs on the shoulders. They are exploding in a layer of smoke, sort of. So I do a lot with animatronics and robotics, and what I want to do is that, fashion is augmenting us, you know? So creating an interaction. >> So you're designing dresses in a way that's integrating new elements... >> Yeah. >> With some tech, robotic arms, the spider dress is one that retracts and has some coolness to it. But there's also the smoke dress... >> Anouk: Yeah. >> How many dresses have you designed? Give us a taste of the flavors and the reactions. >> Yeah, so I have, in total, 37 dresses. So it's a really big family, and the family starts to expand more and more. For me, it's a lot about expression, and about investigating how, if you place these pieces of technology on the body, what they can do, you know? So, seeing fashion as an interface, because I always say garments are there to shelter us, to keep us comfortable in a way, and for me, fashion is something different. For me, fashion is about expression and about communication. And for me, this fashion is analog, our garments are analog, they're not digital, they're not interactive, you know? So I want to put computer boards, microcontrollers in everything, sensors in everything so they start to come alive and they can really express us. And by that, really interesting things come because, do you want to be always expressed? Or do you always want to emote yourself? Or, how does that go? That is, for me, my biggest fascination, researching this field. >> Yeah, and it's here, at the Samsung Developer Conference, so obviously front and center on the keynotes. You're hearing, you're seeing your work, and on the things displayed, they're calling smart things. >> Anouk: Yeah. >> Clothes can be smart. And you're kind of going down that road. Obviously, robotics was a first step, cause that's cool tech. >> Yeah. >> Digital displays are coming, right? >> Anouk: Correct. >> Imagine, like, >> Anouk: Oh yeah, oh yeah. >> My top tweed on my shirt, or you know, my Facebook posts, or my friends. >> Yeah. >> Using the data, how are you thinking about this as a designer? Most people will think geeky, okay, got the data, and a database, but as an artist, as a designer. >> Myself, I do this for about 12 to 15 years. So I started at the beginning of the 2000s, really trying to see how fashion can become this interface, and I think by me growing into this, technology got smaller and smaller, and it's got closer to the body, in a way, so it was able to emboss in your garments. I think that just opens up so many interesting possibilities that haven't been explored yet, except for only, like, the Fit Bits and the watches, the smart watches that are more bothering us. But they don't do anything with the data officialization. They don't do anything to officialize this data. It's only, basically, in the screen, and I want to get it out of the screen and into the real life. >> So one of the most popular dresses that I notice on Twitter and on Google Search was the spider dress. That's got mechanical arms, got like spider legs, and it comes out, it's this cool, cool experience. >> Anouk: Yeah. >> Also, you have the smoke dress. >> Mm-hmm. >> Talk about what they do differently. Talk about the spider dress, the smoke dress, and what was the one with the heartbeat? Share some of what the dresses personify. >> So the spider dress, I created or, I had the pleasure to create with the semiconductor company Intel, and this dress is really about personal space. There's proximity sensors under the chin, so they are measuring when people come into the personal space. And when people do, there's mechanic legs on the shoulders, and they are basically attacking. But they're not just in one way, it would be boring. So depending on how you walk into the space and where you're standing, it's reacting differently. So, somebody's walking up to you very fast, and your dress is reacting very fast. >> It's like a spider sense. It's like a spider sense and you can feel the expression. Whoa, stay back, or... >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Be ready to engage. >> You can use this piece of technology which is host on your body in order to do something that we might not do, like defend yourself. An animal, if you come in the closeness of a cat, the cat will give you a claw, right? But we would say like, oh... We would choose to maybe feel uncomfortable this way. So I was thinking, if you have a system on the body that can do that for you, wow. That's technology helping you out, right? >> Certainly, if someone gets too close, uncomfortable, a little shock treatment might help. >> Yeah, correct. >> Help keep people away. That's a fun example, but I think this is kind of revolutionary, in my opinion. This is so kind of cool because you've got technology, you've got expression, you've got human interaction, all these things going on. Talk about the smoke dress, what is that about? >> Yeah, to just point out, I think, working with this, one of the main factors that I think is really interesting is that technology doesn't become a tool, it becomes a companion. It lives on your body, it lives with you, and it can maybe also listen to your body signals and it knows how you're doing, and that is sometimes not with handheld devices. They don't know how you feel, but as soon as it's on the body, it feels your heart, it can sense your brain, it can sense your pulse, your muscle contraction, and I think that makes it really interesting. These new technologies on the body can really listen to us. >> They're coming faster, too. You're seeing here, Samsung Health is the first step, obviously that's the sensors on the body. That's an internetive things device. >> Anouk: Yeah. >> And the phone is just a companion. But also, I would just say, that we had some guests yesterday, some influencers on. Validating that augmented reality is so much more advanced. It points to what you're doing. It's not something virtual, it's just augmenting what the human's doing. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. >> Alright, smoke dress, and what's that other dress, that does the heartbeat? >> Yeah. Smoke dress, basically, also based on sense. If more people are around, in the surroundings, the more smoke escapes. So, more the feeling of diving away, like shyness. So working with different emotions, I also created a series of dresses for Cirque du Soleil. We know, as the theater, they have a restaurant in Ibiza, and I created dresses that make cocktails. So a little push on the button, and then a peristaltic pump in the back, and it serves a little cocktail shot, and they are giving that. So looking at how this science can also be social, for example. How can they be personal? How can they be intimate? And I think that is the most interesting thing, to look at that that way while designing. >> Yeah, it's got to pretty interesting. People can take these into different social situations. >> Yeah. >> Parties or large crowds, the spider could be good for that. >> Yeah, but it's also, how can it help you? How can it help your shyness? How can it help you proceed in the world? How can it engage you? I think, like a lot of these things we don't understand yet, how technology can be this learning system. How can we work with technology hand in hand that way? >> So how did you get into all this? This is so cool. >> I started with fashion design myself. I was 14 years old, and again, the notion of these dresses. Expressive, communicative, but they were analog. So when I was 17 years old, I combined it with another love of mine, which is robots. I love robots, they're amazing. But I didn't want the robot to stand next to me, be modeled after a human. I wanted to place the robot on my body, or on the body, and be reacting and interacting like an animal. More intuitive, much more expressive, or maybe rebellious. And by that, it's open up a bos-khal of possibilities for what you can do regarding that, and how they can be interesting. >> Yeah, and I think this is going to be one of those fashion tech areas. What's the industry like right now on the fashion tech? For the folks that aren't following fashion tech. Where's the state of the industry? I mean, this is cutting edge you're doing, certainly. We love it. >> Anouk: Yeah. >> Where is the industry? >> Correct. Especially, like, the things that I'm doing are a little bit more about extremities, right? Really provoking this notion of what fashion can be as soon as it becomes interactive. But especially, like, the last five years, the technology industry... Again, I'm doing this for longer than 12 years. The last five years, really, the technology industry is really interested it. The last two to three years, the fashion industry starts to like, hey, look at it. But I think technology and fashion need to go, much more talking to each other in order to really make this field grow and all of that. That is where we come in, the creators, and the creatives, you know? We are the instigators of the ones that try to push these boundaries and try to bridge these gaps a little bit in order to make a melting pot regarding to that. >> Well, you're doing a great job, I'm super impressed. It's super inspiring to me, I mean, I'm just intrigued by the whole thing. I got to get your reaction to how the younger generation's responding. I have two daughters and two sons, but my daughters would probably be into this. What's the younger, I mean, younger people must be loving this. Older people are, oh get off my lawn, this is too crazy. But maybe the younger people might like it better? What's the reaction? >> First of all, I do a lot of it like animals. Children love animals. I do myself a lot, the maker fair, for example. The maker scene, I always say, builds cool stuff, but also see how a new generation can learn from this, so most of my designs are open source. I do a lot of lectures at maker spaces, workshops with children, kids in electronics, but also girls in programming, just to see how that goes. In a really playful way, you know? Or looking at certain topics, so robotics, or these things. So really also trying to engage that. I think, children growing up, they love this because there are so many things in the screen and as soon as that becomes physical, they really have an engagement with it. >> So the maker culture is really growing. It certainly has been one of those awesome phenomenons that we're seeing, kind of like open source decades ago. The creator culture, the maker culture, the builder culture, this is real deal. >> Yeah. >> You get consumer devices as good as the Samsung 8 here happening, >> Yeah, correct. >> Or the smart TVs, so how are you making that open? Just take one minute to describe to the folks out there who might be interested in getting involved. Is there any collaboration with universities? Is it fashion institutes? Is it on the web? >> Anouk: Yeah. >> Is it your own community share? >> Yeah, well one really big fan I am of open source. So basically, open sourcing, like sharing what you have. You can do this online at websites, you can put your codes online. And I think by sharing... >> That's your website? >> You can find on my website, there's websites like, for example, GitHub. If you have pieces of code, you put it on there, and it's free for the community to use. It's a lot about community, you know? If I would make something, I can publish online, and release step by step how to do it, where to cut the 3D printed model, where to cut the codes, and people can make an electronic ring, for example. And by seeing what kind of piece you can give away from you process, somebody else can learn from that. >> And build on top of it. >> Yeah, correct. So I grew up with, for example, Arduino, it's an open source platform board. And it's microcontroller boards that you can program. And it's open-source, sort of free for people to just work with, and it's really a big education part in there. Education can be expensive, so how can we open this up? How can we make it accessible? And I think that is really important to do. >> And this is great, because this could democratize the closed fashion industry, open up new design opportunities from anyone. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and also, a company. You don't have to open-source, but what is that little piece that you can open-source? That you can give away, that you can give to the community, or to developers, or people to play with? >> So TheCUBE team can build some Cube clothes? >> Oh yeah. (laughter) >> Lenny's like, he wants that. >> Very cute. >> So I got to ask, on the community side. Love this, love this vision, because this is kind of an open source model. >> Yeah. >> You building on the shoulders of others, you're one of the pioneers. What do you see as critical things that need to happen to continue the accelerated growth or more momentum? What would you wish to see? >> Can you give an example? >> Like, what needs to happen to continue the momentum? More people participating? More designs? >> I think... >> More contributions from donors? More academic? >> I think what happens now, for example, like a Samsung developer conferencing part of the creative trek, me and also san-lee, who gave the keynote this morning. And I think inviting more people into each other's disciplines. Samsung here is inviting the creatives into the trek. How can the fashion industry invite technology in there? The technology industry invites fashion? And all of this stuff, you know? So you can really get this melting pot of creative, to architects, to designers, to engineers, and all of that together, you know? I think that is a wonderful world that I love, and that I see much more happening. The instigation of those different disciplines together. >> I love how you have the robotics love as a kid, and you brought your fashion love together. Two disciplines, two amazing things. Advice for young girls out there today who are, maybe feeling that, you know, it's a male dominated world, or who might have an interest in robotics. Robotics clubs are hot right now. Go to all the elementary schools and high schools in America you're seeing robotics become a big deal. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> What's your advice for young girls out there who want to develop their passion? >> One thing is always follow your dream. If you want to have something... If you have something in mind, hey, I want to build an octopus dress, and it might be too far away, how can you get there? Set your goal and go towards there, find it out, be curious, see how you can build these things. And especially if people would say no? You go there to prove them wrong. So that is something that I learned. >> Don't say take no for an answer, always follow your path. >> Yeah, my ideas are very far out, very far. So I always got, oh, this and that, and I always said no. And it's always about following your passion. If there's something that's really stirring you, go find it because that is, in the end, what is driving you. It is not the money, it's not anything of that. It is your passion and something that you want to fight for. >> Find that itch to scratch, always go after what you want. Okay, so final question for you, is, in your experience with your cutting edge designs and all the work you're doing, which is phenomenal, how have you observed the user experience of the general world these days? Because certainly, mobile's out there. We see mobile, but as you start to push the boundaries in clothing that's an expression, it's a human thing, the user experience is becoming integrated. The fabric. What have you learned and observed about user's expectations for future user interfaces? >> I think haptic feedback is really interesting. Also, as soon as you have garments with things in there, the feedback that you can get from that, notifications, or you can think of different ways regarding to that, really the way we interface now with the screen, how can that be more embodied? And to embody that experience, for example, is very interesting but it's also, how can an embodied experience become an epidermis which goes into your house? How can your living accessories react to you or your moods or emotions? I think moods and emotion are a really interesting topic, which also can be much more explored regarding to interaction design and user experiences. >> It's interesting, and I'm also visualizing coolness around an automatic QR code that could tell you how I'm feeling. Stay away from me today, QR code. >> And people still need to scan you. >> We'll have an automatic scanner on there, a little Samsung scanner with facial recognition. No, this is pretty cool, so... >> But these garments are QR codes, but they are surrounding the body, they are not... They have a broader bandwidth to broadcast. >> The personal network is coming. Your personal clothing network. And thank you very much for coming on, we really appreciate it. You're doing some really amazing work and the creative boundaries you're pushing, it's really phenomenal. We're going to share the links for all your stuff with our audience, and great to see Intel helping you out and getting that spider design going. Intel's always doing cutting edge work, so it's good to see that. >> Yeah, they're awesome. >> Thanks for coming on TheCUBE, we appreciate it. Good luck with all your endeavors, appreciate it. This is TheCUBE here, breaking down the fashion tech at the edge of the network. That's the new edge, is your clothes. Be ready for disruption, it's a maker culture. Get involved, check out Anouk's website. This is TheCUBE, more live coverage from Samsung Developer Conference 2017 after this short break. (light electronic music)