[Music] from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante top security pros indicate that the solar winds hack on top of the pandemic have further heightened a change in how they think about security not only musciso secure an increasingly distributed workforce and network infrastructure but they now must be wary of software code coming from reputable vendors including the very patches designed to protect them against cyber attacks hello everyone and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll summarize cso sentiments from a recent etr venn session and provide our quarterly update of the cyber security sector now in an upcoming episode we'll be inviting eric bradley of etr to provide deeper analysis and insights on these trends but we wanted to give you a preliminary preview of what's happening in the sector as we start off 2021. now the solar winds attack was like nothing we've ever seen before it's been covered quite widely in the press but in case you don't know the details solarwinds is a company that provides software to monitor many aspects of largely on-prem infrastructure including things like network performance log files configuration data storage servers and the like now as with all software companies solarwinds sends out regular updates and patches hackers were able to infiltrate the update and trojanize the software meaning when customers installed the updates the malware just went along for the ride now the reason this is so insidious is that often hackers they're going to target installations that haven't installed patches or updates and identified vulnerabilities in the infrastructure that haven't been addressed doors that are open that haven't been closed if you will now here the very code designed to protect against the breach actually facilitated that breach now according to experts this was quite a sophisticated attack that most believe was perpetrated by the russian hacker group cozy bear an advanced persistent threat or apt as classified by the u.s government now it's suspected that somehow they fished their way into a github repo and stole username and password access to allow them to penetrate the supply chain of software that's delivered over the internet but public information on this attack it's still spotty people are still learning now what is known is that the attackers have been lurking since march of last year and they exfiltrated lots of information from the u.s government and many other high-profile companies now here's what the csos and the etr van had to say about it let me just read some of the quotes the impact of this breach is profound it really turned a lot of heads and conventions about cyber security i don't think this threat has been exaggerated in the media we're now in a situation where we have to monitor the monitors this attack didn't have any signatures of a previous attack so you got down to the code level 80 to 90 of that code is being downloaded from the internet it's bringing devops security processes and making us rethink how to reinvent security and i'll add my business friend val berkovici said to me on twitter last year that he thinks the government hack is going to have permanent implications on how organizations approach cyber security it seems these cisos agree now the one question is what can be done about this and when you talk to security pros they'll definitely tell you they're rethinking security practices but look there's only so much you can do here's a tag cloud summarizing some of what we hear in the cube community and in the venn from etr practitioners you hear a lot about xero trust many csos are really leaning into identity access management and pam and mandates around two-factor authentication we've talked a lot about firms like octa sale point cyber arc software and microsoft is coming up more and more in this conversation especially as octa is seen as setting a price umbrella there's definitely some frustration amongst csos about octa's pricing strategies and auth 0 which does authentication as a service that's hitting our radar as well now of course endpoint security is something we've talked a lot about as the work from home trend hit during the pandemic it's become much much more important and you can see in the growth of crowdstrike and as you see in a moment we're getting some traction with vmware and carbon black in the survey data and of course titanium is another company that we've talked about csos look they're not just going to rip out what they have so companies like cisco especially with umbrella and duo they come up in the conversation as does palo alto networks we've said many times palo alto is seen as a thought leader csos like them they also like fortinet especially those that may be more cost cost conscious we see that a lot in mid-market and so on with analytics micro-segmentation cloud security with z-scaler and even rpa to automate certain tasks uipath has come up in the conversation more and more in a security context so you look at this tag cloud and there's no one answer as is often the case case with cyber security lots of tools lots of disciplines and a very capable adversary who has learned to as they say live off the land using your own infrastructure and tooling against you now the common narrative is that security is a top priority with cios and csos and budgets are going to be up so let's take a look at that well kind of here's a chart that shows the net scores or spending momentum for various sectors of the etr tech taxonomy and we've highlighted the information security segment yes it's up relative to the october survey but it really doesn't stand out i mean everything's up as we've reported coming off a down year in tech spending minus four percent last year and we're forecasting a plus six to seven percent increase this year really depending on on the pace of their recovery but the point is cyber is one of many budget organizations and organizations they're simply not going to open up a blank check to the cso now part of the reason is they're heavily invested in cyber this graphic shows several sectors in context and we've highlighted security in the red box the vertical axis that shows spending velocity and the horizontal axis is market share or presence in the data set and you can see the security it's got a big presence it's pervasive of course but it lags some of the top sectors in terms of spending velocity because look organizations they've got lots of priorities and as you'll see in a moment this space like most mature markets has some companies with off the charts spending patterns and others that lag so let's dig into that a little bit here you see that same xy graphic and we've plotted a number of security players so there's a couple of points here that we want to make first microsoft as usual is off the charts to the right and amazingly has a net score of 48 percent so highly elevated octa continues to lead this pack in net score as it has the last several surveys it's got a net score of 61.5 percent up from last quarter survey octa crowdstrike cyberark fortinet proof point and splunk are all up nicely from last quarter's survey we also really want to highlight carbon black the company's net score last quarter was 23.9 percent with 134 mentions in this quarter its net score shot up to nearly 38 so a very meaningful and noticeable move for vmware's 2.1 billion dollar acquisition that it made in the summer of 2019. so a number of companies that have momentum which stems from a rebound in tech spending but also a shift in security spend that we've highlighted and you can see a couple of legacy security firms that are also there in the chart losing momentum we've highlighted fireeye and rsa okay so now let's dig deeper into the data and the vendor performance here's a view of the data that we first showed you in 2019 it shows the net score and the shared n which identifies the number of mentions within the sector and it's an indicator of presence in the marketplace the leftmost chart is sorted by netscore and the right-hand chart is sorted by shared n so to make this chart you had to have at least an n of 50 in the survey again you can see octa sale and sale point lead in net score and microsoft has the biggest presence in the right hand side along with cisco and palo alto and something we started two years ago was if a vendor shows up in the top 10 for both net score and shared n we anointed them with four stars so these are the four star companies microsoft palo alto octa and crowdstrike which crouch by the way it fell off but it's back on and i think that was probably a survey anomaly because based on the company's financials there has been no loss of momentum for crowdstrike and we give two stars to those companies that make the top 20 in both categories so cisco because of umbrella and duo splunk proofpoint fortinet z z-scaler cyborg and carbon black vmware carbon black is new to the two-star list due to its rapid rise in net score that we just talked about now just a quick aside on carbon black at vmworld 2019 pat gelsinger told john furrier and me that he felt like he got a great deal picking up carbon black for 2.1 billion dollars now his logic was in part based on the valuation of crowdstrike at the time which is of course carbon black competitor crowdstrike as you can see on this chart had a valuation that was at nine times higher than that of carbon black and you can see from the trailing 12-month revenue that crowdstrike was a significantly larger company by more than 100 million dollars in revenue so the real story though was the company's growth crowdstrike at the time was growing much much faster than carbon black at more than a hundred percent compared to carbon blacks 22 roughly now in vmware's recent earnings call they said that carbon black had good bookings performance so who knows exactly what that means but if it were more than 22 my guess is that vmware vmware would have been more effusive in its commentary so let's assume that since the acquisition carbon black growth has been flattish you know maybe down maybe up but probably flat so vmware they're figuring out how to integrate the company and we think that as it does that it's going to use its channel of distribution and global presence to really drive carbon black sales now nonetheless we would still peg carbon black's valuation of having increased pretty substantially since the time of the acquisition perhaps in the three to five billion range we don't know for sure so but a nice pickup in our view for vmware and it'll likely grow from here based on the etr data then that's very encouraging for carbon black now let's look at how the valuations in this sector have changed since before covid here's an updated view of our valuation matrix since just before the pandemic hit in the u.s as you can see the s p is up 16 from that time frame the nas composite up 43 percent wow now look at the others only splunk really hasn't seen a huge uptick in valuation but the others have either risen noticeably like proof point cyber arc sail point they bounced up like palo alto or fortinet or exploded like crowd chat octa and z scalar you combine all these and you're talking about 114 billion dollar increase in market cap for these so one would think carbon black as a vmware asset has done pretty well along with these names and we would expect that the tech spending rebound this year combined with the heightened concerns over the solar winds hack and the tectonic shifts from the accelerated work from home and digital business transformations will continue to bode well for many of these names for quite some time all right let's wrap it up with some of the things we're watching in this space as we exit the pandemic and experience a new digital reality cyber threats have never been greater look each january if you look back on the prior year you'd be able to say the same thing for the last couple of decades and the reality is the budgets and spending on cyber they're asymmetric to the economic risks we just don't spend enough and probably can't spend enough to solve this problem csos they have to balance their legacy legacy install base security infrastructure with the shift to zero trust accelerated endpoint new access management challenges the ever expanding cloud and dot dot dot lack of talent remains the single biggest challenge for organizations which are stretch thin making investments in automation a trend that is not going to abate anytime soon in cyber all the cliches apply there is no silver bullet there is no rest for the weary the adversary they are well funded and extremely capable and they only have to succeed once to create a business disaster for an organization that has to succeed every day 24 hours a day so expect more of the same with no end in sight in terms of complexity fragmentation and whack-a-mole approaches to fighting cyber crime i hate to say this but it just means the fundamentals for the sector just keep getting better and better sorry okay that's it for this week remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen so please subscribe i publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey data and the analytics i appreciate the comments on my linkedin post you can dm me at [Music] you

>> Announcer: Live from San Jose. It's theCUBE. Presenting big data, Silicon Valley. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCube. I'm here with Dave Vellante, my co-host. Exclusive conversation around the role of data, data for good and bad. We always cover the role of data. We used to talk about AI and data for good but in this exclusive interview... And we have some exclusive material about data for bad. Dave, we've been talking about weaponizing data a year ago in SiliconEAGLE in theCUBE, around how data is being weaponized, and certainly in the elections. We know the Russians were involved. We know that data, you can buy journalists, you can create fake news. And for every click-bate and fake news is bad content. But also on the other side of this, there's good bate; good news. So the world's changin'. There needs to be a better place, needs to be some action taken, because there's now evidence that the role that the Russians had, using fake news and weaponizing it to sway the election and other things has been out there. So this is somethin' that we've been talkin' about. >> Yeah I mean the signature of the hacks is pretty clear. I think there is a distinct signature when you talk to the experts of when it's China or when it's Russia. Russia, very clever, about the way they target somebody whose maybe a pawn; but they try to make him or her feel like a king, grab their credentials and then work their way in. They've been doing this for decades, right? >> And the thing is to, is that now it's not just state-sponsored, there's new groups out there that they can enable open source tools. We report on theCUBE that terrorist organizations and bad actors, are taking open source tools and threats from state nations, posing as threats to democracy in the U.S. and other countries. This is a huge problem. >> And it's, in a way, it's harder than the nuclear problem. We had weapons pointed at each other, right. This is... The United States has a lot to lose. If we go on the offense, others can attack us and attack our systems, which are pretty mature. So, recently we talked to Garry Kasparov. I had an exclusive interview with him. He's very outspoken. Kasparov is the greatest chess player in history, by most accounts. And he is a political activist, he's an author. And he had a number of things to say about this. Let's listen to him, it's about a couple minute clip, and then we'll come back and talk about it. Watch this. >> Garry: Knowing Vladimir Putin and the mentality of the KGB mentality and the way he has been approaching the global problems; I had no doubt that the question was not if Putin would attack somewhere, but the question is when and where? And the attack on U.S. democracy was a surprise here but it was not surprise for us because we could see how they built these capabilities for more than a decade. Because they have been creating fake news industry in Russia to deal with Russian opposition 2004, 2005. Then they used against neighboring countries like Estonia in 2007. Then they moved to eastern Europe and then through western Europe. So when they ended up attacking the United States, they would've had almost a decade of experience. And it's quite unfortunate that, while there was kind of information about this attacks, the previous administration decided just to take it easy. And the result is that we have this case of interference; I hope there will be more indictments. I hope we'll get to the bottom of that. Because, we know that they are still pretty active in Europe. And they will never seize there-- >> Dave: Germany, France-- >> Garry: Exactly. But it's... I call Putin as: merchant of doubt. Because, unlike Soviet propaganda machine, he's not selling one ideology. All he wants is to spread chaos. So that's why it's not about and, oh this is the only, the right teaching. No, no, no. No, it's wrong, it's wrong, everything... Yeah, maybe there are 10 different ways of saying the truth. Truth is relevant. And that's a very powerful message because it's spreading these doubts. And he's very good in just creating these confusions and actually, bringing people to fight each other. And I have to say he succeeded-- >> Dave: Our president is taken a page out of that. Unfortunately. But I also think the big issue we face as a country, in the United States, is 2020. Is the election in 2020 is going to be about who leverages social media and the weaponization of social media. And the Russian attackers you talk to the black hats, very sophisticated, very intriguing how they come in, they find the credentials-- >> Garry: But look, we know, Jesus, every expert knows that in this industry, if you are trying to defend yourself, if you are on the defense all the time you will lose. It's a losing proposition. So the only way to deter the aggression is to make sure that they won't be counterattacks. So that there will be devastating blows, those who are attacking the United States. And you need the political will because, technology is here; America is still the leading power in the world. But the political will, unfortunately-- >> Dave: However, I would say that, but it's different than with nuclear warheads. Robert Gates was on theCUBE, he said to me, and I asked him about offense versus defense. He said the only thing about the Unite States is we have a lot to lose. So we have to be careful. (laughter) How aggressive we can be. >> Garry: No, exactly. That is just, it's, yes. It's a great error of uncertainty: what can you lose? If you show strength. But I can tell you exactly how you are going to lose everything, if you are not-- >> Dave: Vigilant. >> Garry: If you are not vigilant. If you are not deterrent. If you are not sending the right signal to the Putins of this world that aggression against America will have the price that you cannot bear. >> So John, pretty unequivocal comments from Garry Kasparov. So a lot of people don't believe that you can actually manipulate social media that way. You've been in social for a long time, since the beginning days. Maybe you could explain how one, would a country or a state sponsored terrorism; how would they go about manipulating individuals? >> You know Dave, I've been involved in internet infrastructure from the beginning days of Web 1.0 and through search engines. Student of the data. I've seen the data. I've seen our, the data that we have from our media company. I've seen the data on Facebook and here's the deal: there's bad actors doin' fake news, controlling everything, creating bad outcomes. It's important for everyone to understand that there's an actual opposite spectrum. Which is the exact opposite of the bad; there's a good version. So what we can learn from this is that there's a positive element of this, if we can believe it, which is actually a way to make it work for good. And that is trust, high-quality data, reputation and context. That is a very hard problem. Facebook is tryin' to solve it. You know we're workin' on solving that. But here's the anatomy of the hack. If you control the narrative, you can control the meme. If you can control the meme, you can control the idea. If you can control the idea, you can control the belief system. If you can control the belief system, you can control the population. That is exactly what has happened with the election. That is what's happening now in social networks. That's why so many people are turning off to social networks. Because this is hackable; you can actually hack the brains and outcomes of people. Because, controlling the narrative, controlling the meme, controlling the idea, controlling the belief system: you can impact the population. That has absolutely been done. >> Without firin' a shot. >> Without firing a shot. This is the new cold social network wars that are goin' on. And again, that has been identified, but there's an opposite effect. And the opposite effect is having a trust system, a short cut to trust; there will be a Google in our future, Google, like what Google did to search engines. It will be for social networks. That is, whoever can nail the trust, reputation, context: what is real and what is not. Will ultimately have all the users goin' to their doorstep. This is the opportunity for news organizations, for platforms and it's all going to be driven by new infrastructure, new software. This is something we can learn from. But there is a way to hack, it's been done. I've just laid it out. That's what's happening. >> Well, blockchain solved or play a role in solving this problem of reputation in your opinion. >> Well you know that I believe centralized is bad. 'Cause you can hack a centralized database and the data. Ownership is huge. I personally believe that blockchain and this notion of decentralized data ownership will ultimately go back to the people and that the decentralized applications and cryptocurrency leads a path, it's not yet proven, there's no clear visibility yet. But many believe that the wallet is a new browser and that cryptocurrency can put the power to the people; so that new data can emerge. To vet in a person who says they're something that they're not. News that says they're somethin' that they're not. This is a trust. This is something that is not yet available. That's what I'm sayin'. You can't get it with Google, you can't get it with Facebook. You can't get it in these platforms. So the world has to change at an infrastructure level. That's the opportunity to blockchain. Aside from all the things like who's going to give the power for the miners; a variety of technical issues. But conceptually, there is a path there. That's a new democracy. This is global phenomenon. It's a societal change. This is so cutting edge, but it's yet very promising at the same time. >> This is super important because I can't tell you how many times have you've received an email from one political persuasion or the other that lays out emphatically, that this individual did that or... And you do some research and you find out it's fake news. It happens all the time. >> There's no context for these platforms. Facebook optimizes their data for advertising optimization and you're going to see data being optimized for user control, community control, community curation. More objective not subjective data. This is the new algorithm, this is what machine learning in AI will make a difference. This is the new trust equation that will emerge. This is a phenomenal opportunity for entrepreneurs. If you're in the media business and you're not thinking about this, you will be out of business. That's our opinion. >> Excellent John. Well thanks for your thoughts and sharing with us how these hacks are done. This is real. The midterm elections, 2020 is really going to be won or lost on social media. Appreciate that. >> And Facebook's fumbling and they're going to try to do good. We'll see what they do. >> Alright. >> Alright. >> That's a wrap. Good job. >> Thanks for watching.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> The pandemic has changed the way we think about and predict the future. As we enter the third year of a global pandemic, we see the significant impact that it's had on technology strategy, spending patterns, and company fortunes Much has changed. And while many of these changes were forced reactions to a new abnormal, the trends that we've seen over the past 24 months have become more entrenched, and point to the way that's coming ahead in the technology business. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we welcome our partner and colleague and business friend, Erik Porter Bradley, as we deliver what's becoming an annual tradition for Erik and me, our predictions for Enterprise Technology in 2022 and beyond Erik, welcome. Thanks for taking some time out. >> Thank you, Dave. Luckily we did pretty well last year, so we were able to do this again. So hopefully we can keep that momentum going. >> Yeah, you know, I want to mention that, you know, we get a lot of inbound predictions from companies and PR firms that help shape our thinking. But one of the main objectives that we have is we try to make predictions that can be measured. That's why we use a lot of data. Now not all will necessarily fit that parameter, but if you've seen the grading of our 2021 predictions that Erik and I did, you'll see we do a pretty good job of trying to put forth prognostications that can be declared correct or not, you know, as black and white as possible. Now let's get right into it. Our first prediction, we're going to go run into spending, something that ETR surveys for quarterly. And we've reported extensively on this. We're calling for tech spending to increase somewhere around 8% in 2022, we can see there on the slide, Erik, we predicted spending last year would increase by 4% IDC. Last check was came in at five and a half percent. Gardner was somewhat higher, but in general, you know, not too bad, but looking ahead, we're seeing an acceleration from the ETR September surveys, as you can see in the yellow versus the blue bar in this chart, many of the SMBs that were hard hit by the pandemic are picking up spending again. And the ETR data is showing acceleration above the mean for industries like energy, utilities, retail, and services, and also, notably, in the Forbes largest 225 private companies. These are companies like Mars or Koch industries. They're predicting well above average spending for 2022. So Erik, please weigh in here. >> Yeah, a lot to bring up on this one, I'm going to be quick. So 1200 respondents on this, over a third of which were at the C-suite level. So really good data that we brought in, the usual bucket of, you know, fortune 500, global 2000 make up the meat of that median, but it's 8.3% and rising with momentum as we see. What's really interesting right now is that energy and utilities. This is usually like, you know, an orphan stock dividend type of play. You don't see them at the highest point of tech spending. And the reason why right now is really because this state of tech infrastructure in our energy infrastructure needs help. And it's obvious, remember the Florida municipality break reach last year? When they took over the water systems or they had the ability to? And this is a real issue, you know, there's bad nation state actors out there, and I'm no alarmist, but the energy and utility has to spend this money to keep up. It's really important. And then you also hit on the retail consumer. Obviously what's happened, the work from home shift created a shop from home shift, and the trends that are happening right now in retail. If you don't spend and keep up, you're not going to be around much longer. So I think the really two interesting things here to call out are energy utilities, usually a laggard in IT spend and it's leading, and also retail consumer, a lot of changes happening. >> Yeah. Great stuff. I mean, I recall when we entered the pandemic, really ETR was the first to emphasize the impact that work from home was going to have, so I really put a lot of weight on this data. Okay. Our next prediction is we're going to get into security, it's one of our favorite topics. And that is that the number one priority that needs to be addressed by organizations in 2022 is security and you can see, in this slide, the degree to which security is top of mind, relative to some other pretty important areas like cloud, productivity, data, and automation, and some others. Now people may say, "Oh, this is obvious." But I'm going to add some context here, Erik, and then bring you in. First, organizations, they don't have unlimited budgets. And there are a lot of competing priorities for dollars, especially with the digital transformation mandate. And depending on the size of the company, this data will vary. For example, while security is still number one at the largest public companies, and those are of course of the biggest spenders, it's not nearly as pronounced as it is on average, or in, for example, mid-sized companies and government agencies. And this is because midsized companies or smaller companies, they don't have the resources that larger companies do. Larger companies have done a better job of securing their infrastructure. So these mid-size firms are playing catch up and the data suggests cyber is even a bigger priority there, gaps that they have to fill, you know, going forward. And that's why we think there's going to be more demand for MSSPs, managed security service providers. And we may even see some IPO action there. And then of course, Erik, you and I have talked about events like the SolarWinds Hack, there's more ransomware attacks, other vulnerabilities. Just recently, like Log4j in December. All of this has heightened concerns. Now I want to talk a little bit more about how we measure this, you know, relatively, okay, it's an obvious prediction, but let's stick our necks out a little bit. And so in addition to the rise of managed security services, we're calling for M&A and/or IPOs, we've specified some names here on this chart, and we're also pointing to the digital supply chain as an area of emphasis. Again, Log4j really shone that under a light. And this is going to help the likes of Auth0, which is now Okta, SailPoint, which is called out on this chart, and some others. We're calling some winners in end point security. Erik, you're going to talk about sort of that lifecycle, that transformation that we're seeing, that migration to new endpoint technologies that are going to benefit from this reset refresh cycle. So Erik, weigh in here, let's talk about some of the elements of this prediction and some of the names on that chart. >> Yeah, certainly. I'm going to start right with Log4j top of mind. And the reason why is because we're seeing a real paradigm shift here where things are no longer being attacked at the network layer, they're being attacked at the application layer, and in the application stack itself. And that is a huge shift left. And that's taking in DevSecOps now as a real priority in 2022. That's a real paradigm shift over the last 20 years. That's not where attacks used to come from. And this is going to have a lot of changes. You called out a bunch of names in there that are, they're either going to work. I would add to that list Wiz. I would add Orca Security. Two names in our emerging technology study, in addition to the ones you added that are involved in cloud security and container security. These names are either going to get gobbled up. So the traditional legacy names are going to have to start writing checks and, you know, legacy is not fair, but they're in the data center, right? They're, on-prem, they're not cloud native. So these are the names that money is going to be flowing to. So they're either going to get gobbled up, or we're going to see some IPO's. And on the other thing I want to talk about too, is what you mentioned. We have CrowdStrike on that list, We have SentinalOne on the list. Everyone knows them. Our data was so strong on Tanium that we actually went positive for the first time just today, just this morning, where that was released. The trifecta of these are so important because of what you mentioned, under resourcing. We can't have security just tell us when something happens, it has to automate, and it has to respond. So in this next generation of EDR and XDR, an automated response has to happen because people are under-resourced, salaries are really high, there's a skill shortage out there. Security has to become responsive. It can't just monitor anymore. >> Yeah. Great. And we should call out too. So we named some names, Snyk, Aqua, Arctic Wolf, Lacework, Netskope, Illumio. These are all sort of IPO, or possibly even M&A candidates. All right. Our next prediction goes right to the way we work. Again, something that ETR has been on for awhile. We're calling for a major rethink in remote work for 2022. We had predicted last year that by the end of 2021, there'd be a larger return to the office with the norm being around a third of workers permanently remote. And of course the variants changed that equation and, you know, gave more time for people to think about this idea of hybrid work and that's really come in to focus. So we're predicting that is going to overtake fully remote as the dominant work model with only about a third of the workers back in the office full-time. And Erik, we expect a somewhat lower percentage to be fully remote. It's now sort of dipped under 30%, at around 29%, but it's still significantly higher than the historical average of around 15 to 16%. So still a major change, but this idea of hybrid and getting hybrid right, has really come into focus. Hasn't it? >> Yeah. It's here to stay. There's no doubt about it. We started this in March of 2020, as soon as the virus hit. This is the 10th iteration of the survey. No one, no one ever thought we'd see a number where only 34% of people were going to be in office permanently. That's a permanent number. They're expecting only a third of the workers to ever come back fully in office. And against that, there's 63% that are saying their permanent workforce is going to be either fully remote or hybrid. And this, I can't really explain how big of a paradigm shift this is. Since the start of the industrial revolution, people leave their house and go to work. Now they're saying that's not going to happen. The economic impact here is so broad, on so many different areas And, you know, the reason is like, why not? Right? The productivity increase is real. We're seeing the productivity increase. Enterprises are spending on collaboration tools, productivity tools, We're seeing an increased perception in productivity of their workforce. And the CFOs can cut down an expense item. I just don't see a reason why this would end, you know, I think it's going to continue. And I also want to point out these results, as high as they are, were before the Omicron wave hit us. I can only imagine what these results would have been if we had sent the survey out just two or three weeks later. >> Yeah. That's a great point. Okay. Next prediction, we're going to look at the supply chain, specifically in how it's affecting some of the hardware spending and cloud strategies in the future. So in this chart, ETRS buyers, have you experienced problems procuring hardware as a result of supply chain issues? And, you know, despite the fact that some companies are, you know, I would call out Dell, for example, doing really well in terms of delivering, you can see that in the numbers, it's pretty clear, there's been an impact. And that's not not an across the board, you know, thing where vendors are able to deliver, especially acute in PCs, but also pronounced in networking, also in firewall servers and storage. And what's interesting is how companies are responding and reacting. So first, you know, I'm going to call the laptop and PC demand staying well above pre-COVID norms. It had peaked in 2012. Pre-pandemic it kept dropping and dropping and dropping, in terms of, you know, unit volume, where the market was contracting. And we think can continue to grow this year in double digits in 2022. But what's interesting, Erik, is when you survey customers, is despite the difficulty they're having in procuring network hardware, there's as much of a migration away from existing networks to the cloud. You could probably comment on that. Their networks are more fossilized, but when it comes to firewalls and servers and storage, there's a much higher propensity to move to the cloud. 30% of customers that ETR surveyed will replace security appliances with cloud services and 41% and 34% respectively will move to cloud compute and storage in 2022. So cloud's relentless march on traditional on-prem models continues. Erik, what do you make of this data? Please weigh in on this prediction. >> As if we needed another reason to go to the cloud. Right here, here it is yet again. So this was added to the survey by client demand. They were asking about the procurement difficulties, the supply chain issues, and how it was impacting our community. So this is the first time we ran it. And it really was interesting to see, you know, the move there. And storage particularly I found interesting because it correlated with a huge jump that we saw on one of our vendor names, which was Rubrik, had the highest net score that it's ever had. So clearly we're seeing some correlation with some of these names that are there, you know, really well positioned to take storage, to take data into the cloud. So again, you didn't need another reason to, you know, hasten this digital transformation, but here we are, we have it yet again, and I don't see it slowing down anytime soon. >> You know, that's a really good point. I mean, it's not necessarily bad news for the... I mean, obviously you wish that it had no change, would be great, but things, you know, always going to change. So we'll talk about this a little bit later when we get into the Supercloud conversation, but this is an opportunity for people who embrace the cloud. So we'll come back to that. And I want to hang on cloud a bit and share some recent projections that we've made. The next prediction is the big four cloud players are going to surpass 167 billion, an IaaS and PaaS revenue in 2022. We track this. Observers of this program know that we try to create an apples to apples comparison between AWS, Azure, GCP and Alibaba in IaaS and PaaS. So we're calling for 38% revenue growth in 2022, which is astounding for such a massive market. You know, AWS is probably not going to hit a hundred billion dollar run rate, but they're going to be close this year. And we're going to get there by 2023, you know they're going to surpass that. Azure continues to close the gap. Now they're about two thirds of the size of AWS and Google, we think is going to surpass Alibaba and take the number three spot. Erik, anything you'd like to add here? >> Yeah, first of all, just on a sector level, we saw our sector, new survey net score on cloud jumped another 10%. It was already really high at 48. Went up to 53. This train is not slowing down anytime soon. And we even added an edge compute type of player, like CloudFlare into our cloud bucket this year. And it debuted with a net score of almost 60. So this is really an area that's expanding, not just the big three, but everywhere. We even saw Oracle and IBM jump up. So even they're having success, taking some of their on-prem customers and then selling them to their cloud services. This is a massive opportunity and it's not changing anytime soon, it's going to continue. >> And I think the operative word there is opportunity. So, you know, the next prediction is something that we've been having fun with and that's this Supercloud becomes a thing. Now, the reason I say we've been having fun is we put this concept of Supercloud out and it's become a bit of a controversy. First, you know, what the heck's the Supercloud right? It's sort of a buzz-wordy term, but there really is, we believe, a thing here. We think there needs to be a rethinking or at least an evolution of the term multi-cloud. And what we mean is that in our view, you know, multicloud from a vendor perspective was really cloud compatibility. It wasn't marketed that way, but that's what it was. Either a vendor would containerize its legacy stack, shove it into the cloud, or a company, you know, they'd do the work, they'd build a cloud native service on one of the big clouds and they did do it for AWS, and then Azure, and then Google. But there really wasn't much, if any, leverage across clouds. Now from a buyer perspective, we've always said multicloud was a symptom of multi-vendor, meaning I got different workloads, running in different clouds, or I bought a company and they run on Azure, and I do a lot of work on AWS, but generally it wasn't necessarily a prescribed strategy to build value on top of hyperscale infrastructure. There certainly was somewhat of a, you know, reducing lock-in and hedging the risk. But we're talking about something more here. We're talking about building value on top of the hyperscale gift of hundreds of billions of dollars in CapEx. So in addition, we're not just talking about transforming IT, which is what the last 10 years of cloud have been like. And, you know, doing work in the cloud because it's cheaper or simpler or more agile, all of those things. So that's beginning to change. And this chart shows some of the technology vendors that are leaning toward this Supercloud vision, in our view, building on top of the hyperscalers that are highlighted in red. Now, Jerry Chan at Greylock, they wrote a piece called Castles in the Cloud. It got our thinking going, and he and the team at Greylock, they're building out a database of all the cloud services and all the sub-markets in cloud. And that got us thinking that there's a higher level of abstraction coalescing in the market, where there's tight integration of services across clouds, but the underlying complexity is hidden, and there's an identical experience across clouds, and even, in my dreams, on-prem for some platforms, so what's new or new-ish and evolving are things like location independence, you've got to include the edge on that, metadata services to optimize locality of reference and data source awareness, governance, privacy, you know, application independent and dependent, actually, recovery across clouds. So we're seeing this evolve. And in our view, the two biggest things that are new are the technology is evolving, where you're seeing services truly integrate cross-cloud. And the other big change is digital transformation, where there's this new innovation curve developing, and it's not just about making your IT better. It's about SaaS-ifying and automating your entire company workflows. So Supercloud, it's not just a vendor thing to us. It's the evolution of, you know, the, the Marc Andreessen quote, "Every company will be a SaaS company." Every company will deliver capabilities that can be consumed as cloud services. So Erik, the chart shows spending momentum on the y-axis and net score, or presence in the ETR data center, or market share on the x-axis. We've talked about snowflake as the poster child for this concept where the vision is you're in their cloud and sharing data in that safe place. Maybe you could make some comments, you know, what do you think of this Supercloud concept and this change that we're sensing in the market? >> Well, I think you did a great job describing the concept. So maybe I'll support it a little bit on the vendor level and then kind of give examples of the ones that are doing it. You stole the lead there with Snowflake, right? There is no better example than what we've seen with what Snowflake can do. Cross-portability in the cloud, the ability to be able to be, you know, completely agnostic, but then build those services on top. They're better than anything they could offer. And it's not just there. I mean, you mentioned edge compute, that's a whole nother layer where this is coming in. And CloudFlare, the momentum there is out of control. I mean, this is a company that started off just doing CDN and trying to compete with Okta Mite. And now they're giving you a full soup to nuts with security and actual edge compute layer, but it's a fantastic company. What they're doing, it's another great example of what you're seeing here. I'm going to call out HashiCorp as well. They're more of an infrastructure services, a little bit more of an open-source freemium model, but what they're doing as well is completely cloud agnostic. It's dynamic. It doesn't care if you're in a container, it doesn't matter where you are. They recently IPO'd and they're down 25%, but their data looks so good across both of our emerging technology and TISA survey. It's certainly another name that's playing on this. And another one that we mentioned as well is Rubrik. If you need storage, compute, and in the cloud layer and you need to be agnostic to it, they're another one that's really playing in this space. So I think it's a great concept you're bringing up. I think it's one that's here to stay and there's certainly a lot of vendors that fit into what you're describing. >> Excellent. Thank you. All right, let's shift to data. The next prediction, it might be a little tough to measure. Before I said we're trying to be a little black and white here, but it relates to Data Mesh, which is, the ideas behind that term were created by Zhamak Dehghani of ThoughtWorks. And we see Data Mesh is really gaining momentum in 2022, but it's largely going to be, we think, confined to a more narrow scope. Now, the impetus for change in data architecture in many companies really stems from the fact that their Hadoop infrastructure really didn't solve their data problems and they struggle to get more value out of their data investments. Data Mesh prescribes a shift to a decentralized architecture in domain ownership of data and a shift to data product thinking, beyond data for analytics, but data products and services that can be monetized. Now this a very powerful in our view, but they're difficult for organizations to get their heads around and further decentralization creates the need for a self-service platform and federated data governance that can be automated. And not a lot of standards around this. So it's going to take some time. At our power panel a couple of weeks ago on data management, Tony Baer predicted a backlash on Data Mesh. And I don't think it's going to be so much of a backlash, but rather the adoption will be more limited. Most implementations we think are going to use a starting point of AWS and they'll enable domains to access and control their own data lakes. And while that is a very small slice of the Data Mesh vision, I think it's going to be a starting point. And the last thing I'll say is, this is going to take a decade to evolve, but I think it's the right direction. And whether it's a data lake or a data warehouse or a data hub or an S3 bucket, these are really, the concept is, they'll eventually just become nodes on the data mesh that are discoverable and access is governed. And so the idea is that the stranglehold that the data pipeline and process and hyper-specialized roles that they have on data agility is going to evolve. And decentralized architectures and the democratization of data will eventually become a norm for a lot of different use cases. And Erik, I wonder if you'd add anything to this. >> Yeah. There's a lot to add there. The first thing that jumped out to me was that that mention of the word backlash you said, and you said it's not really a backlash, but what it could be is these are new words trying to solve an old problem. And I do think sometimes the industry will notice that right away and maybe that'll be a little pushback. And the problems are what you already mentioned, right? We're trying to get to an area where we can have more assets in our data site, more deliverable, and more usable and relevant to the business. And you mentioned that as self-service with governance laid on top. And that's really what we're trying to get to. Now, there's a lot of ways you can get there. Data fabric is really the technical aspect and data mesh is really more about the people, the process, and the governance, but the two of those need to meet, in order to make that happen. And as far as tools, you know, there's even cataloging names like Informatica that play in this, right? Istio plays in this, Snowflake plays in this. So there's a lot of different tools that will support it. But I think you're right in calling out AWS, right? They have AWS Lake, they have AWS Glue. They have so much that's trying to drive this. But I think the really important thing to keep here is what you said. It's going to be a decade long journey. And by the way, we're on the shoulders of giants a decade ago that have even gotten us to this point to talk about these new words because this has been an ongoing type of issue, but ultimately, no matter which vendors you use, this is going to come down to your data governance plan and the data literacy in your business. This is really about workflows and people as much as it is tools. So, you know, the new term of data mesh is wonderful, but you still have to have the people and the governance and the processes in place to get there. >> Great, thank you for that, Erik. Some great points. All right, for the next prediction, we're going to shine the spotlight on two of our favorite topics, Snowflake and Databricks, and the prediction here is that, of course, Databricks is going to IPO this year, as expected. Everybody sort of expects that. And while, but the prediction really is, well, while these two companies are facing off already in the market, they're also going to compete with each other for M&A, especially as Databricks, you know, after the IPO, you're going to have, you know, more prominence and a war chest. So first, these companies, they're both looking pretty good, the same XY graph with spending velocity and presence and market share on the horizontal axis. And both Snowflake and Databricks are well above that magic 40% red dotted line, the elevated line, to us. And for context, we've included a few other firms. So you can see kind of what a good position these two companies are really in, especially, I mean, Snowflake, wow, it just keeps moving to the right on this horizontal picture, but maintaining the next net score in the Y axis. Amazing. So, but here's the thing, Databricks is using the term Lakehouse implying that it has the best of data lakes and data warehouses. And Snowflake has the vision of the data cloud and data sharing. And Snowflake, they've nailed analytics, and now they're moving into data science in the domain of Databricks. Databricks, on the other hand, has nailed data science and is moving into the domain of Snowflake, in the data warehouse and analytics space. But to really make this seamless, there has to be a semantic layer between these two worlds and they're either going to build it or buy it or both. And there are other areas like data clean rooms and privacy and data prep and governance and machine learning tooling and AI, all that stuff. So the prediction is they'll not only compete in the market, but they'll step up and in their competition for M&A, especially after the Databricks IPO. We've listed some target names here, like Atscale, you know, Iguazio, Infosum, Habu, Immuta, and I'm sure there are many, many others. Erik, you care to comment? >> Yeah. I remember a year ago when we were talking Snowflake when they first came out and you, and I said, "I'm shocked if they don't use this war chest of money" "and start going after more" "because we know Slootman, we have so much respect for him." "We've seen his playbook." And I'm actually a little bit surprised that here we are, at 12 months later, and he hasn't spent that money yet. So I think this prediction's just spot on. To talk a little bit about the data side, Snowflake is in rarefied air. It's all by itself. It is the number one net score in our entire TISA universe. It is absolutely incredible. There's almost no negative intentions. Global 2000 organizations are increasing their spend on it. We maintain our positive outlook. It's really just, you know, stands alone. Databricks, however, also has one of the highest overall net sentiments in the entire universe, not just its area. And this is the first time we're coming up positive on this name as well. It looks like it's not slowing down. Really interesting comment you made though that we normally hear from our end-user commentary in our panels and our interviews. Databricks is really more used for the data science side. The MLAI is where it's best positioned in our survey. So it might still have some catching up to do to really have that caliber of usability that you know Snowflake is seeing right now. That's snowflake having its own marketplace. There's just a lot more to Snowflake right now than there is Databricks. But I do think you're right. These two massive vendors are sort of heading towards a collision course, and it'll be very interesting to see how they deploy their cash. I think Snowflake, with their incredible management and leadership, probably will make the first move. >> Well, I think you're right on that. And by the way, I'll just add, you know, Databricks has basically said, hey, it's going to be easier for us to come from data lakes into data warehouse. I'm not sure I buy that. I think, again, that semantic layer is a missing ingredient. So it's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. And to your point, you know, Snowflake's got the war chest, they got the momentum, they've got the public presence now since November, 2020. And so, you know, they're probably going to start making some aggressive moves. Anyway, next prediction is something, Erik, that you and I have talked about many, many times, and that is observability. I know it's one of your favorite topics. And we see this world screaming for more consolidation it's going all in on cloud native. These legacy stacks, they're fighting to stay relevant, but the direction is pretty clear. And the same XY graph lays out the players in the field, with some of the new entrants that we've also highlighted, like Observe and Honeycomb and ChaosSearch that we've talked about. Erik, we put a big red target around Splunk because everyone wants their gold. So please give us your thoughts. >> Oh man, I feel like I've been saying negative things about Splunk for too long. I've got a bad rap on this name. The Splunk shareholders come after me all the time. Listen, it really comes down to this. They're a fantastic company that was designed to do logging and monitoring and had some great tool sets around what you could do with it. But they were designed for the data center. They were designed for prem. The world we're in now is so dynamic. Everything I hear from our end user community is that all net new workloads will be going to cloud native players. It's that simple. So Splunk has entrenched. It's going to continue doing what it's doing and it does it really, really well. But if you're doing something new, the new workloads are going to be in a dynamic environment and that's going to go to the cloud native players. And in our data, it is extremely clear that that means Datadog and Elastic. They are by far number one and two in net score, increase rates, adoption rates. It's not even close. Even New Relic actually is starting to, you know, entrench itself really well. We saw New Relic's adoption's going up, which is super important because they went to that freemium model, you know, to try to get their little bit of an entrenched customer base and that's working as well. And then you made a great list here, of all the new entrants, but it goes beyond this. There's so many more. In our emerging technology survey, we're seeing Century, Catchpoint, Securonix, Lucid Works. There are so many options in this space. And let's not forget, the biggest data that we're seeing is with Grafana. And Grafana labs as yet to turn on their enterprise. Elastic did it, why can't Grafana labs do it? They have an enterprise stack. So when you look at how crowded this space is, there has to be consolidation. I recently hosted a panel and every single guy on that panel said, "Please give me a consolidation." Because they're the end users trying to actually deploy these and it's getting a little bit confusing. >> Great. Thank you for that. Okay. Last prediction. Erik, might be a little out of your wheelhouse, but you know, you might have some thoughts on it. And that's a hybrid events become the new digital model and a new category in 2022. You got these pure play digital or virtual events. They're going to take a back seat to in-person hybrids. The virtual experience will eventually give way to metaverse experiences and that's going to take some time, but the physical hybrid is going to drive it. And metaverse is ultimately going to define the virtual experience because the virtual experience today is not great. Nobody likes virtual. And hybrid is going to become the business model. Today's pure virtual experience has to evolve, you know, theCUBE first delivered hybrid mid last decade, but nobody really wanted it. We did Mobile World Congress last summer in Barcelona in an amazing hybrid model, which we're showing in some of the pictures here. Alex, if you don't mind bringing that back up. And every physical event that we're we're doing now has a hybrid and virtual component, including the pre-records. You can see in our studios, you see that the green screen. I don't know. Erik, what do you think about, you know, the Zoom fatigue and all this. I know you host regular events with your round tables, but what are your thoughts? >> Well, first of all, I think you and your company here have just done an amazing job on this. So that's really your expertise. I spent 20 years of my career hosting intimate wall street idea dinners. So I'm better at navigating a wine list than I am navigating a conference floor. But I will say that, you know, the trend just goes along with what we saw. If 35% are going to be fully remote. If 70% are going to be hybrid, then our events are going to be as well. I used to host round table dinners on, you know, one or two nights a week. Now those have gone virtual. They're now panels. They're now one-on-one interviews. You know, we do chats. We do submitted questions. We do what we can, but there's no reason that this is going to change anytime soon. I think you're spot on here. >> Yeah. Great. All right. So there you have it, Erik and I, Listen, we always love the feedback. Love to know what you think. Thank you, Erik, for your partnership, your collaboration, and love doing these predictions with you. >> Yeah. I always enjoy them too. And I'm actually happy. Last year you made us do a baker's dozen, so thanks for keeping it to 10 this year. >> (laughs) We've got a lot to say. I know, you know, we cut out. We didn't do much on crypto. We didn't really talk about SaaS. I mean, I got some thoughts there. We didn't really do much on containers and AI. >> You want to keep going? I've got another 10 for you. >> RPA...All right, we'll have you back and then let's do that. All right. All right. Don't forget, these episodes are all available as podcasts, wherever you listen, all you can do is search Breaking Analysis podcast. Check out ETR's website at etr.plus, they've got a new website out. It's the best data in the industry, and we publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can always reach out on email, David.Vellante@siliconangle.com I'm @DVellante on Twitter. Comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (mellow music)

>>live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's the Q covering Answerable Fest 2019. Brought to you by Red Hat. >>Hey, welcome back, everyone. It's the cubes. Live coverage here in Atlanta, Georgia, for answerable fast. Part of redheads. Big news. Ansel Automation Platform was announced. Among other things, they're great products. I'm John for ear, with my coast to minimum, but two great guests. You unpack all the automation platform features and benefits. Walter Bentley, senior manager. Automation Practicing red hat and vj Job Olu, director of Red Hat Consulting Guys Thanks for coming on. Thanks. So the activity is high. The buzz this year seems to be at an inflection point as this category really aperture grows big time seeing automation, touching a lot of things. Standardization. We heard glue layer standard substrate. This is what answer is becoming so lots of service opportunity, lot of happy customers, a lot of customers taking it to the next level. And a lot of customers trying to consolidate figure out hadn't make answerable kind of a standard of other couples coming in. You guys on the front lines doing this. What's the buzz? What's the main store? What's the top story going on around the service is how to deploy this. What are you guys seeing? >>So I think what we're seeing now is customers. Reactor building automation. For a long time, I have been looking at it at a very tactical level, which is very department very focused on silo. Whether country realizes with this modern develops and the change in how they actually go to the market, they need to bring the different teams together. So they're actually looking at watching my enterprise automation strategy be how to actually take what I've learned in one organization. And I still roll it across the enterprise so that now struggling and figuring out how to be scared, what we have, how do we change the culture of the organization to collaborate a lot more and actually drive automation across enterprise? >>Walter One of the things we've been we've talked about all the time in the Cube, and it's become kind of cliche. Digital transformation. Okay, I heard that before, and three things people process, technology, process and capability you guys have done You mentioned the siloed having capabilities that's been there. Check was done very, very well as a product technology Red hat in the portfolio. Great synergies. We talked about rail integration, all the benefits there. But the interesting thing this year that I've noticed is the people side of the equation is interesting. The people are engaged, is changing their role because automation inherently changes there, function in the organization because it takes away probably the mundane tasks. This is a big part of the equation. You guys air hitting that mark. How do you How are you guys seeing that? How you accelerating that has that changing your job, >>right? So customers are now economy realizing that going after automation in a very tactical manner is not exactly getting them what they want as a far as a return on investment in the automation. And what they're realizing is that they need to do more. And they're coming to us and more of an enterprise architectural level and say we want to talk mortgage grander strategy. And what they're coming to realize is that having just one small team of people that were calling the Dev Ops team is not gonna be ableto drive that adoption across the organization. So what we're trying to do is work with customers to show them how they collaboration in the culture of peace is huge. It's a huge part of adopting automation. Answerable is no longer considered a emerging tech anymore. And and I when I say that, I mean a lot of organizations are using answerable in many different ways. They're past that point, and now they're moving on to the next part, which is what is our holistic strategy and how we're gonna approach automation. And And we wanted leverage danceable, unanswerable tower to do that. >>Does that change how you guys do your roll out your practices in some of your programs? >>Well, we did have to make some adjustments in the sense of recognizing that the cultural piece is a pivotal part of it, and we can go in and we can write playbooks and rolls, and we can do all those things really great. But now we need to go in and help them structure themselves in a way where they can foster that collaboration and keep a moment. >>And I'll actually add on to that so reactive, large, open innovation labs three years ago, and what we have to learn doing that is using labs and allows practices to actually help customers embrace new culture and change. How they actually operate has actually helped us take those practices and bring it into our programs and kind of drive that to our customers. So we actually run our automation adoption program and the journey for customers through those practices that we actually learned in open innovation loves like open practice, library, even storming priority sliders and all of those modern techniques. So the goal is to help our customers understand those practices and actually embrace them and bring them into the organization to drive the change that that's looking for within the organization. >>A. J. Is there anything particular for those adoption practices when you're talking about Cloud? Because the communication amongst teams silos, you know, making things simpler is something that we absolutely do need for cloud. So I'm just curious how you connect kind of the cloud journey with the automation journey. >>So all of the journey program that actually created, whether it's a contender adoption program or the automation adoption program, we actually followed the same practices. So whether you're actually focused on a specific automation to, like, answerable or actually embarking on hybrid multicolored journey. We actually use the same practices so the customers don't have toe learn new things every time you have to go from one product, one of the so that actually brings a consistent experience to customers in driving change within the organization. So let's picture whether it is focusing automation focused on cloud migrating to the cloud. The practices remained the same, and the focus is about not trying to boil the ocean on day one. Try to break it into manageable chunks that give it a gun back to the business quickly learned from the mistakes that you make in each of the way and actually build upon it and actually be successful. >>So, Walter, I always love when we get to talk to the people that are working straight with customers because you come here to the conference, it's like, Oh, it's really easy Get started. It doesn't matter what role or what team you're in. Everybody could be part of it. But when you get to the actual customers, they're stumbling blocks. You know what are some of those things? What are some of the key things that stop people from taking advantage of all the wonderful things that all the users here are doing >>well. One of the things that I've identified and we've identified as a team is a lot of organizations always want to blow the ocean. And when and when it comes down to automation, they feel that if they are not doing this grand transformation and doing this this huge project, then they're not doing automation. And the reality is is that we're Trent with showing them that you can break things up into smaller chunks, as Visi alluded to. And even if you fail, you fail fast and you can start over again because you're dealing with things in a smaller chunk. And we've also noticed that by doing that, we're able to show them to return on investment faster so they can show their leadership, and their leadership can stand behind that and want to doom. Or so that's one of the areas. And then I kind of alluded to the other area, which is you have to have everybody involved. You want just subject matter experts riding content to do the automation. You don't want that just being one silo team. You want to have everybody involved and collaborate as much as possible. >>Maybe can you give us an example? Is about the r A y How fast to people get the results and, you know, prove toe scale this out. >>So with the automation adoption journey, what we're able to do is is that we come in and sit down with our customers and walk them through how to properly document their use cases. What the dependencies, What integration points, possibly even determining what is that? All right, ranking for that use case. And then we move them very quickly in the next increment. And in the next increment, we actually step them through, taking those use cases, breaking them down into minimum viable products and then actually putting those in place. So within a 90 day or maybe a little bit more than a little bit more than the 90 day window, were able to show the customer in many different parts of the organization how they're able to take advantage of automation and how the return on investment with hopes of obviously reducing either man hours or being able to handle something that is no a mundane task that you had to do manually over and over again. >>What are some of the things that people get confused about when they look at the breath of what's going on with the automation platform? When I see tool to platform, transitions are natural. We've seen that many times in the industry that you guys have had product success, got great community, that customers, they're active. And now you've got an ecosystem developing so kind of things air popping on all cylinders here. >>So the biggest challenge that we're actually being seeing customers is they actually now come to realize that it's very difficult to change the culture of the organization right there, actually embarking on this journey and the biggest confusion that is, how do we actually go make those changes? How do we bring some of the open practice some of the open source collaboration that Riddle had into the organization so they actually can operate in a more open source, collaborative way, and what we have actually learned is we actually have what we call its communities of practice within Red Hack. It is actually community off consultants, engineers and business owners. The actual collaborate and work together on offering the solutions to the market. So we're taking those experiences back to our customers and enabling them to create those communities of practice and automation community that everybody can be a part off. They can share experiences and actually learn from each other much easier than kind of being a fly on the wall or kind of throwing something or defense to see what sticks and what does not. >>What's interesting about the boiling the ocean comment you mentioned Walter and B J is your point. There is, is that the boil? The ocean is very aspirational. We need change rights. That's more of the thing outcome that they're looking for. But to get there is really about taking those first steps, and the folks on the front lines have you their applications. They're trying to solve or manage. Getting those winds is key. So one of things that I'm interested in is the analytics piece showing the victory so in the winds early is super important because that kind of shows the road map of what the outcome may look like versus the throw the kitchen, sink at it and, you know, boil the ocean of which we know to the failed strategy. Take us through those analytics. What are some of the things that people tend to knock down first? What are some of the analytical points that people look at for KP eyes? Can you share some insight into that? >>Sure, sure. So we always encourage our customers to go after the platform first. And I know that may sound the obvious, but the platform is something that is pretty straightforward. Every organization has it. Every organization struggles with provisioning, whether of a private cloud, public cloud, virtualization, you name it. So we have the customer kind of go after the platform first and look at some of their day to operations. And we're finding that that's where the heaviest return on investment really sits. And then once you get past that, we can start looking like in the end, work flows. You know, can they tie service now to tower, to be able to make a complete work flow of someone that's maybe requesting a BM, and they can actually go through that whole workflow by by leveraging tower and integration point like service. Now those air where we're finding that the operators of these systems going getting the fastest benefit. And it also, of course, benefits the business at the end of the day because they get what they need a lot fast. >>It's like a best practice and for you guys, you've seen that? Yes, sir. Docked with that out of E. J. What's your comment on all this? >>So going back to the question on metrics Automation is great, but it does not provide anybody to the business under the actually show. What was the impact, whether it's from a people standpoint, cost standpoint or anything else. So what we try to drive is enable customers. You can't build the baseline off where they are today, and as they're going through the incremental journey towards automation, measure the success of that automation against the baseline. And that actually adds the other way back to the customer. As a business you didn't get to see. I was creating a storage land. I was doing it probably 15 times a month. Take it or really even automated. It spend like a day created a playbook. I'll save myself probably half, of course, and that could be doing something that's better. So building those metrics and with the automation analytics that actually came in the platform trying those bass lines. So the number of executions, actually the huge value they'll actually be ableto realize the benefits of automation and measure the success off within enterprise. >>So I'm a customer prospect, like I want to get a win. I don't want to get fired. I won't get promoted. Right, I say, Okay, I gotta get a baseline and knock down some playbooks. Knock that down first. That what you're gonna getting it. That's a good starting. >>Starting. Understand your baseline today. Plan your backlog as to what you want to knock down. And once you know them down, build a dashboard as to what the benefits were, what the impact was actually built upon it. You actually will see an incremental growth in your success with automation. >>And then you go to the workflow and too, and that's your selling point for the next level. Absolutely good playbook. Is that the automation programs that in a nutshell or is that more of a best practice >>those components of the ah, the automation adoption journey that we allow the customer to kind of decide how they want their journey to be crafted. Of course, we have a very specific way of going about and walking them through it. But we allowed in the kind of crap that journey and that is those the two components that make up the automation. >>We're gonna put you guys on the spot with the tough question We heard from G. P. Morgan yesterday on the Kino, which I thought was very compelling. You know, days, hours, two minutes. All this is great stuff. It's real impact. Other customers validate that. So, congratulations. Can you guys share any anecdotal stories? You know, the name customers? Just about situations Where customs gone from this to this old way, new way and throw some numbers around Shearson Samantha >>is not a public reference, but I like to give you a customer. Exactly. Retail company. When we first actually went and ran a discovery session, it took them 72 days to approach in an instance. And the whole point was not because it took that long. It because every task haven't s l. A We're actually wait for the Acela manually. Go do that. We actually went in >>with our 72 hours, two days, two days, >>actually, going with the automation? We Actually, it was everybody was working on the S L. A. We actually brought it down to less than a day. So you just gave the developers looking to code 71 days back for him to start writing code. So that's the impact that we see automation bringing back to the customers, right? And you'll probably find the use causes across everywhere. Whether J. P. Morgan Chase you actually had the British Army and everyone here on states talking about it. It is powerful, but it is powerful relief you can measure and learn from it >>as the baseline point. Get some other examples because that's that's, uh, that's 70 days is that mostly delay its bureaucracy. It's It's so much time. >>It's manual past and many of the manual tasks that actually waiting for a person to do the task >>waterfall past things sound, although any examples you can >>yes, so the one example that always stands out to me and again, it's a pretty interviewing straight forward. Is Citrix patching? So we work with the organization. They were energy company, and they wanted to automate patching their searches environment, patching this citrus environment took six weekends and it took at least five or six engineers. And we're talking about in bringing an application owners, the folks who are handling the bare metal, all all that whole window. And by automating most of the patching process, we were able to bring it down to one weekend in one engineer who could do it from home and basically monitor the process instead of having to be interactive and active with it. And to me, that that was a huge win. Even though it's, you know, it's such dispatching. >>That's the marketing plan. Get your weekends back. Absolutely awesome. Shrimp on the barbecue, You know, Absolutely great job, guys. Thanks for the insight. Thanks. Come on. The key. Really appreciate it. Congratulations. Thank you. Thanks for sharing this queue here. Live coverage. Danceable fest. Where the big news is the ass. Full automation platform. Breaking it down here on the Q. I'm John. First to Minutemen. We're back with more coverage after this short break

>> Live from Mountain View, California It's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage, day one at CISCO DEVNET CREATE 2019, I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier, we are at The Computer History Museum at Mountain View. We're pleased to welcome to theCUBE Ash Seddeek, strategic business consultant and story telling coach. >> Yes. >> This is an interesting combination, story telling coach with a bunch of developers. So first of all, talk to us about what it is that you, who do you help learn how to tell stories and then what your work is with Cisco. >> Fantastic. So, primarily at Cisco, I work with a lot of leaders in a coaching environment where we are looking at what they are trying to achieve with the organization and how they can articulate that message in an energetic and inspiring way. And we find stories are the best way to engage the audience. I'm working with one leader, he keeps telling me, the last talk he gave, the one thing people remember is the story. So, everyone is sort of realizing that if I want to tell them something about how we're transitioning from one technology platform to another, if I can find a metaphor, an analogy, a story, I have much better luck connecting with them and giving them something that they can remember. >> Is this like a personal story that they need to share and kind of open up some some vulnerability? Or just some other metaphor that everybody would understand? >> Yes, we actually sometimes use one or the other. Like in one case, we're using the car racing metaphor to talk about how teams come together to create amazing results. So then in that case, it's not about just the driver of that car or the team at the pit changing the tires and how fast they do that, but how they collectively then, have that success at the end of the race. Or, maybe to your point, maybe it's a personal story that then shows them, hey, I went through a lot of challenges and I know as engineers, you're going through a lot of challenges, and I can see us getting past it. So we also try to tap into what they've been able to achieve in the past. So then he can actually call on their memory, we've been able to produce these products for Cisco. Now, the customer expectations are changing and we need to get them to the market sooner, therefore, we need to figure ways where we can build some high preforming teams and get these products to the market much sooner. >> You know Ash, since hearing about your story telling here on theCUBE, as we do a lot of story telling, is that in the tech world, designed thinking has been a big part of the discipline around building products. >> Yes. >> How has some of the things that you're bringing to this kind of design story telling, >> Yes. >> Kind of ethos and thinking, >> Yes. >> Into the story telling creation process, not just, like hey I created this thing, now let's go bolt a story onto it. Is there an integration point inside the construction of the creative process, >> Yes. >> That might feed that. Can you take us through your state of the art thinking around this? >> Absolutely. It's actually, it was very comforting to find that the very first step in designed thinking is empathize, which essentially means, you have a particular target audience that you're trying to serve with a particular solution. We actually use the word hero to think about that audience and then we basically say, if she's a mom walking into the hospital lobby with her baby, what is the experience for that mother? Can we really empathize? Can we find out what the story is? What's been happening at home? The way she's going into the hospital, now she's driving into the lobby, how is she being received in that lobby, in the service level. And then we basically describe the story again of where things are today, which we can call experience number one. And then we basically talk to them about how can we envision a beautiful, delightful, experience for that mom? That becomes experience number two, and we use these stories between one and two to really energize us, to really help people understand we need to come up with a much better solution. >> I want to get your thoughts on Steve Jobs always said story telling was critical. It was his mantra before he passed away. I had a chance to interview John Chambers at his house recently. >> Yes. >> He's got a new book coming out and he's always been about trends and being on the right wave, so between the two, you had one product leader with Steve Jobs, you have a trend seer with John Chambers. How much of the DNA of the person you are coaching, that their natural talent shapes how you engage with how they could be a better story teller? >> Yeah, what I'm finding a lot, especially also with technical leaders, a lot of the time they are very sort of reserved. They sort of walk in the building a all of a sudden have this sort of character where I am not as, you know, charging ahead as I should be and a lot of the time I basically say, hey, can we get this voice to have a little bit of character? Can we get some vocal variety in here? Can we actually tell a story? Can you actually get up, stand up, and open up and really you know, tell us something about who you are and why you want to do this project to lead this team forward. So to your point, I really help them find out that they're actually like any other average citizen, they have so much energy and power within them, they just come into the corporate office and think, oh, I need to have a corporate character, then I come back and say, you know what, I actually need you, I need John to be here, in person, with all the stories that you can tell. And I tell them, go back into your old child and let's figure out some of those stories so that when you're talking about those stories, you remember the excitement, you remember the people that were there. And then all of a sudden, there's a bit of life in them, you know, so that's sort of, what I help them discover is that actually they have these stories. And they are engaging, they are inspiring, if they actually let them come out. >> I imagine that's got to be easier with some guys and girls than others. Some of those who really, maybe don't like public speaking or having to explain something that can be quite (inaudible) to certain audiences. >> Yes. >> What are some of the things that you've learned about working with some of these technologists that have helped kind of refine your methodology for cracking that surface and unleashing this energy and this sort of, natural passion. >> Yes. >> That's hidden inside. >> Absolutely and you know what's happening here at Cisco, especially at Cisco, where you see technology being used to do a lot of communication, a lot of them are realizing, if I don't articulate my message, I'm not going to get the funding. I'm not going to get the best resources. So they realize that communication became part of how do I influence up and make sure that my stakeholders understand that we have a critical project, so there is part of it where they know that there is a lot on the line if they don't speak up. And then they come to someone like me and say, Ash, how can we do this? So we then talk through what are you trying to accomplish with this team? What's that vision and how can we build it, a case for change and that becomes the thing that energizes them first and then we energize their teams and we think about, how do you take this message to executives that can give you the funding that you're looking for. >> So you talked about, before we went live, this program at Cisco, this sort of shark tank-like program, >> Yes. >> Where you're working with very technical men and women. >> Exactly, yeah. >> Who might have a brilliant idea, but in terms of articulating that to be able to get, like you said for, get funding or sponsorship for programs, Can you give us, maybe, one of your favorite examples of a, when you started with experience one or phase one, where it took you about a half an hour to figure out, that's the goal. To getting to the ah, there's the story. >> Yes, that's a good question. >> Tell us something that really sticks with you. >> YGreat question, so the program is called Hack It IT and it's an incubator program, as I mentioned. And one example, a team in China actually, was working on the idea of how do we reduce the number of customers that could be thinking about walking away from Cisco? So the technical term for that is customer churn. So I got on the phone with them, and of course, there are some challenges when it comes to speaking English by a lot of our Chinese colleagues. But then I listened in and I paid attention and then I started asking them, what got you interested in this idea? But we started to really kind of break down the fact that they have figured out that there is a way to listen into the data within Cisco and figure out that once they actually identify certain signals, they can help the sales teams realize they need to go talk to John, because John, if he doesn't have someone talking to him very soon, he or she might actually shift and go to another company, and then I said, well, what percentage do you think that churn is right now? And we found out that maybe like about 7% and with the technology they are building, we could bring it down to three 3%. I was like ding, ding, ding, ding! Earnings per share, number of customers, dollars per quarter, it was just an amazing opportunity and once they came out and communicated clearly, it was the winning idea at the end of the day. >> So you're helping take these technical folks, start to understand the business impact, >> Absolutely, yeah. >> And communicate-- >> And how big it is. >> Right. >> And how big it is. >> That can be pretty transformative for I think anybody in any field, right? >> And I remember on the call, I said, guys did we take a look at the industry averages on the churn? You know, what's the situation at Juniper? What's the situation at HPE? How does Cisco compare? How can we make sure that Cisco is much better off? Phenomenal opportunity for Cisco to listen in and catch things before they happen. >> What would be your advice to folks watching around? How to be a better story teller? Because you can really reel people in, get their attention and then deliver the pay load, whether it's venture funding, >> Yes. >> Or getting a project funded inside a corporation. There's always people interested in how they could be better story tellers, what's your playbook? >> Absolutely. So, the reason I talk about what I do is, I help people become chief excitement officers, which means we need to find the excitement, once we find the excitement, it's like finding gold in a very, very tough mountain and once we find the gold, then we can extract it out and then we can showcase it, right? So I think a lot of the time we're having difficulty finding out where the gold is. And that's one of the things that I help them with, but if they sit with their teams and really brainstorm what opportunities do we have? What are the sizes? How can we get some of these ideas out? Then all of a sudden that idea, that gold starts to show up and they are much more equipped to talk about it. And I have on the executivegreatness.com/storytelling, there is a nice cheat sheet that people can download and use to start really crafting these stories by first using a template in the beginning and then once they do it once, twice, three times it gets easier and better and if they can build a culture around story telling, it makes life so much easier. >> So you've got the, I think you mentioned it, but I want to make sure our viewers heard it. The executive greatness institute is something that you've created. >> Yes. >> And that people could go to that and find that template that you were just mentioning. >> Exactly, so executivegreatness.com/storytelling and they can download that template, it should be a very easy fill-in process in the beginning and it's a fantastic experience to really get that visual story. >> Find that gold, make some fine jewelry make some bars. >> Yes. Its amazing, there's so much potential because-- >> So this must be for anybody, and sorry to interrupt, in any industry. >> Absolutely yes. >> Anybody who can learn to find a way to connect with whomever, whatever, but it sounds like a lot of, kind of, horizontal benefits for anybody. >> Absolutely. >> And any level of their career. >> Totally because what we're finding is the clarity of the message once people get it, then you can actually ask them to do things for you or with you, but until then, there's a huge divide. People sit in these, in all hands meetings, the executive speaks, he or she speaks, they're not really catching on, you know, it's not so clear. >> It's about connecting. >> It's about connecting and clarity is the passage and story becomes the fantastic bridge. >> Yeah. >> To really do that connection. >> And really making it about being part of the same story, >> Yes, exactly. >> That connection creates more retention, success, one proposal versus the other. >> Exactly. >> Could be a swing, the swing could be the story. >> Yes, exactly, 'cause what, when we're working with these teams, we found out that if they can't communicate it, we could be losing out on a multi billion dollar idea. >> You know one thing I want to hear your thoughts on while your here because, >> Sure. >> It's as if I feel like I'm in a counseling session 'cause all we have to try to do is figure out how to tell our story better and our customers who come on theCUBE, they have social media channels, they have more channels. >> Yes. >> The story is broken down into little highlights and small video clips, so companies are challenged, not just individuals, to have a brand. >> Exactly. >> In social media. >> Absolutely. >> How do you take the gold, that excitement, and break it up, >> Yes, into a branding story-- >> Share the story in all channels possible. >> Absolutely. >> Do you have any opinion on that, or? >> It's a lot of tough work, but to your point, we need to find what that brand story is and make sure that everybody's actually clear on it 'cause a lot of times to your point, when you bring them together, each one has a different story. >> Absolutely. >> You know, so I think part of it is to really come together and say, let's get the story, let's honor it, by then, spreading it across the organization, >> And in a consistent way. >> And then we use it on the website, we use it in our marketing and our sales conversations. And if you started with that story with customers, you have something that's a whole lot more engaging, >> Get that story out there in a digital footprint. >> Exactly, yeah, exactly. >> Awesome. >> And I wonder if even what you're talking about in terms of you're right, it's about connection, is even more important as the world gets more and more and more connective with devices, and we get so focused on talking to a device, we've got to kind of come back to your sort of, bringing people back to the basic communication. >> With the human connection, so yeah. >> Exactly, which is, thankfully still needed and to your point, I think, what you were able to show your customers is a tremendous business impact, >> Yes. >> That this connection, this basic human connection in story telling can make. >> Absolutely. And the fact that you are really talking about human beings at the end, those experiences at the very end are touching somebody and we need to get excited, we basically, one of the executives from GE basically said, we need people who can go to the future and then get so excited and then come back, kind of keep that excitement on their face and walk around the organization, keep telling them, you know, when we get to Yosemite, you're going to see these waterfalls, the fresh air is amazing, I've been there, I saw it. I can't wait to get you guys there. And that's what they do on a daily basis, they're just walking around with that bug inside of them, they can see what it's like, and they can't wait to get everybody there. >> This is also somebody that can really breed and foster cultural transformation within a GE, an organization that has been around and has so many moving parts. >> Yes. >> Cultural transformation is essential for any company to transform digitally and that's a hard thing to do. >> Yeah, exactly. >> But it sounds like if, you know, you can, I like-- >> It's a big part of it. >> I like chief excitement officer, I think my dog is my chief excitement officer. But being able to maintain that and sustain it from a cultural transformation perspective is huge. >> Absolutely, 'cause all the digital transformation efforts are about that vision of the future, whether it's healthcare, to your point, or automotive industry or any other industry. It's about what kind of experience, much better experience are we going to create? >> Ash, great talking with you, exciting topic. >> Yes. >> Thank you for giving some time to John and me today at DevNet. >> Absolutely, thank you so much. >> We appreciate it. >> Thank, John, thank you so much. For John Furrier, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live at Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (outro music)

>> Over and welcome to this special cube conversation here in the Palo Alto Studios of Cube. Part of our People. First project with Mayfield Fund and Co creation with Cuban John Very your host. Very special guest. Judy Estrin. She's the CEO of J Labs and author of the book Closing the Innovation Gap. She's also well known for being an Internet entrepreneur. Pioneer worked on the initial TCP IP protocol with Vin Cerf from When the A Stanford Great History Computer Science. You have computer systems in your blood, and now you're mentoring a lot of companies. Author you a lot of work, and you're lending your voice to some cutting edge issues here in Silicon Valley and around the world. Thanks for joining me today for the conversation. >> Thank you. It's fun to be here, >> So I love the fact that you're here. You're a celebrity in the commute computer industry circles. You were there at the beginning, when the computer systems or the Internet were being connected as they built out of stone of the whole system's revolution in the eighties, and the rest is history. Now we have cloud computing, and now we're seeing a whole nother level step function of scale. And so you've kind of seen it all. You've seen all all the waves. Actually, something like make is they have seen some of the ways, but you've seen all of them. The most compelling thing I think that's happening now is the convergence of social science and computer science. Kind of our motto. Silicon Angle. You recently wrote to Post on Medium that that has been kind of trending and going viral. I want to get your perspective on that. And they're They're interesting because they they bring a little bit of computer science called the authoritative Authority Terrian Technology Reclaiming Control far too attention, part one. We go into great detail to lay out some big picture computer industry discussions. What's it all about? What's what's the What's the idea behind these stories? >> So let me back up a little bit in that, a Sze Yu said. And we can go into this if you want. I was very involved in a lot of thie, ah, innovation that happened in the Village Valley in terms of microprocessors, the Internet, networking, everything that laid the foundation for a lot of the things we see today incredible opportunities for my career for problems we solved over the last ten years. Ten, twelve years. Um, I began to see a shift and a shift in the culture and a shift in the way technology was impacting us. And it's not all good or bad. It's that it felt like we were out of balance and that we were becoming shorter and shorter, term focused and actually my book in two thousand eight closing the innovation gap. The main message there is let's not forget about the seeds you plant that all of this comes from because we're reaping the benefit of those seeds. We're not planning new seats and that we were becoming in the Valley in the nation the way we thought about things more and more short term focused and technology was causing some of that and benefitting and not been and at a disadvantage because of that. So that started with my book in two thousand eight and then in twenty fourteen, I think it was I did a Ted talk a Ted X talk called Balancing our Digital Diets, and I was even Mohr concerned that we were out of whack in terms of the consequences of innovation, and I drew an analogy to our food's systems, where so much innovation and creating cheap calories and energy and things like high fructose corn syrup that it took years to realize that, Oh, there's some negative consequences of that innovation. And so that was kind of a warning that, um, we weren't thinking enough about the consequences of at that point. Social media. That was before fake news, and I talked about tweets and how truth that lies went faster than truth, not knowing how bad that situation was going to be and then leading up to the election and after the election. We all know and have all learned now about the impacts of these technologies on our democracy, and I believe on our society and humanity. And I don't think it's just about our election system. I think it's about our psyches and how the technology's air impacting the way we think our fear and anxiety level of our kids and us is adults. So I been talking to people about it and advising, and I finally decided as, uh, I was collaborating with people that I felt that a lot of the awareness was in pockets that we talked about data privacy or we talked about addiction. But these air things were all interrelated, and so I wanted to one ad. My voices is technologists because I think a lot of the people who are writing the building, the awareness and talking about it if you are in government or a journalist's or even a social scientist people, it's really easy to say, Yeah, you say that, but you don't understand. It's more complicated than that. You don't understand the technology. So one, I do understand that technology. So I felt adding my voice as a technologist. But I'm also, uh, just increasingly concerned about what we do about it and that we take a more holistic view. So that's what, what what the pieces are about. And the reason I broke it into two pieces is because they're too long for most people, even the way they are. But the first is to build awareness of the problems which we can dig into it a high level if you want. And then the second is to throw out ideas as we move towards discussing solutions. So let me take a breath because you were goingto jump in, and then I can. >> No, it's just because you're connecting the foundational of technology foundation technology, identifying impact, looking at pockets of awareness and then looking at how it's all kind of coming together when you talk like that The first time I saw O subsystem interrupt us connection so someone could get like a operating system. And I think the society that you're pointing out in the article, the first one intention was there only to relate. And I think that's the key part. I think that's interesting because we run into people all the time when we do our cue broadcasts that have awareness here and don't know what's going on this. So this context that's highly cohesive. But there's no connection, right? So the decoupled right but highly cohesive, That's kind of systems. Architecture concept. So how do we create a robust technology's society system where technology and I think that's a threat that we're seeing this? What I cleaned out of the articles was your kind of raising the flag a little bit to the notion of big picture right system, kind of a foundational, but let's look at consequences and inter relationships, and how can we kind of orchestrate and figure out solutions? So what was the reaction to expand on that concept? Because this is where I was. It was provocative to me, >> right? So I think there are two thought trains that I just went down. One is that one of the problems we have that has been created by technology and technology is suffering from again. It's causing both cause and effect is not enough seats, system thinking and so one issue, which is not just this is not just about social media and not just about a I, but over the last twenty years we've increasingly trained, I think, are, Ah, engineers and computer scientists in Mohr transactional thinking. And as we move quicker and quicker to solve problems, we are not training our leaders or training our technologist to think in terms of systems. And so what I mean by systems is two things that you can break, that any problems have pieces. But those pieces air inter connected. We are interconnected, and that you, if you don't keep those things in mind, then you will not design things in a way, I believe that have the longevity and make the right type decisions. The second is the law of consequences when you have a system, if you do something here, it's going to impact something here. And so that whole notion of taking was thinking through consequences. I'm afraid that we're training people as we are focusing on being more and more agile, moving more and more quickly that it's in technology and in society that we're losing some of that system, thinking >> that they kind of think that's the trade off is always around. Whenever he had systems conversations in the past, but my old systems had on trade offs, we have overhead, so we have more memory. How do we handle things? So this is kind of That's just what happens. You tell about consequence, but >> we don't have all those we I'm older than you. But we started at a time when that we were limited. We were limited by memory. We were limited by processing. We were limited by band with and a different times. As thie industry emerged, the constraints were in different areas. Today, you don't have any of those constraints. And so, if you don't have any of those constraints. You don't get trained in thinking about trade offs and thinking about consequences. So when when we come into just what drove me to write, this one set of things are foundational issues and what I mean by foundational it's it's our relationship to technology. And the fact of the matter is, as a society, um, we put technology on a pedestal, and we have, uh, this is not to be taken out of Cut is not to be taken the extreme of talking about people, but overall, our relationship with technology is a bullying, controlling relationship. That's why I called it authoritarianism. >> Upgrade your iPhone to the new version. >> Well, whether it's as a user that you're giving up your your your authority to all these notifications and to your addiction, whether it is the fact that it is the control with the data, whether it is predictive ai ai algorithms that are reading your unconscious behaviors and telling you what you think, because if it's suggesting what you by putting things in front of you. So there are all of these behaviors that our relationship with technology is not a balanced relationship and you could one. You have a culture where the companies that are that have that power are driving towards. It's a culture of moving fast growth only don't think about the consequences. It's not just the unintended consequences, but it's the consequences of intended use. So the business models and at which we don't need to go into, because I think a lot of other people talk about that all end up with a situation which is unhealthy for us as people and humanity and for us as a society. So you take that part and it is. There's a parallel here, and we should learn from what happened with industrial Ah, the industrial revolution. We want progress. But if we don't pay attention to the harm, the harmful byproducts and trade offs of progress, it's why we have issues with climate. It's why we have plastic in our oceans. It's because you, you judge everything by progresses just growth and industrialization without thinking about well being or the consequences. Well, I believe we now face a similar challenge of digitization, so it's not industrialization. But it's digitalization that has byproducts in a whole number of areas. And so what the the article does is get into those specifics, whether it's data or anxiety, how we think our cognitive abilities, our ability to solve problems, All of those things are byproducts of progress. And so we should debate um, where we what we're willing to give up one last thing. And then I'll have to come in, which is one of the problems with both of these is is humans value convenience. We get addicted to convenience, and if somebody gives us something that is going to make things more convenient, it sure is held to go backward. And that's one of the reasons the combination of measuring our goodness as a country or a CZ. Globalization by economic growth and measuring our personal wellness by convenience, if something is more convenient, were happier. Take those two together, and it makes a dangerous cop combination because then our need for community convenience gets manipulated for continued economic growth. And it doesn't necessarily end up in, Ah, progress from, ah, well being perspective. >> It's interesting point about the digitization, because the digital industrial revolution, when the digital revolution is happening, has consequences. We're seeing them and you point them out in your post Facebook and fake news. There's also the global landscape is the political overlay. There's societal impact. There's not enough scholars that I've been trained in the art of understanding into relationships of technology, and Peg used to be a nerd thing. And now my kids are growing up. Digital natives. Technology is mainstreams, and there it is. Politics. You know, the first hack collection, Some of the control, The first president actually trolled his way. That president, I said that I'm the kid. That was my position. He actually was a successful troll and got everyone he trolled the media and you got the attention. These air new dynamics, This is reality. So is you look forward and bring these ideas, and I want to get your thoughts on ideas on how to bring people together. You've been on a CTO Cisco Systems. I know you've been sleeping on a board. This is a cross pollination opportunity. Bring people together to think about this. How do you do You look at that? How do you view how to take the next steps as a as an industry, as a society and as a global nations? It eventually, because cyber security privacy is becoming polarized. Also on a geography bases in China they have. GPR is hard core there. In Europe, he got Asia. With Chinese. You got America being American. It's kind of complicated as a system architecture thinking. How do you look at this? What is the playing field where the guard rails? What's your thoughts on this? Because it's a hard one, >> right? So it is a hard one and it isn't. It isn't easy to pave out a path that says it's solvable. Um, nor does Climate right now. But you have to believe we're going to figure it out because we have to figure it out. So I think there are a lot of pieces that we need to start with, and then we need to adjust along the way. And, um, one piece is and let me back up. I am not. I don't believe we can leave this up to the industry to solve the incentives and the value systems and the understanding of the issues. The industry is coming from an industry perspective, and you can't also. You also can't leave it just two technologists because technologists have a technology person perspective. I don't believe that you just can have government solve it for a variety of reasons. One is, if it takes a spectrum of things to legislation, tends to be retroactive, not forward looking. And you need to be really careful not to come up with regulation that actually reinforces the status quo as opposed to making something better. But I think we need to. We do need to figure out how to govern in a way that includes all of these things. So once >> it's running, it's clear that watching the Facebook hearing and watching soon dark sky in front of the house. Our current elected officials actually don't even know how the Internet works, so that's one challenge. So you have a shift in its every beat >> and it and it's actually, if you think about the way legislation often gets made one of the problems with our democracy right now, I'm not going to put it in quotes. But I want to put it >> out. >> Is that the influence of money on our democracy means that so often the input toe legislation comes from industry. So whether it's again big tech, big pharma, big Oil, big. That's the way this cycle works in places where we have had successful legislation that industry input, what you need industry input. You just don't want industry to be the on ly input that is balanced with other input. And so we need infrastructure in the world. In the country that has policy ideas, technology. This needs to come from civil society, from the academy from non profits. So you need the same way we have environmental sciences. We need to fund from government, not just industry funded that science. That's number one. And then we need ways to have conversations about influencing companies to do the right thing. Some of it is going to be through legislation some of it is going to be for through pressure. This, in some ways is like tobacco in some ways, like it's like food. In some ways, it's like climate on DH. It's so and an underlying any of this to happen. We need people to understand and to speak up because awareness amongst whether it's individuals, parents, teachers, we need to give people the information to protect themselves and to push back on companies and to rally pushback on government. Because if if there's not an awareness of people are walking around saying, Don't take away my service, don't make this less convenient don't tax my soda. Don't tell me my text messages. That's right, so and I'm not saying taxes of the way. But if there isn't what what I'm focused on is, how do we build awareness? How do we get information out? How do we get companies like yours and others that this becomes part of >> our >> messaging of understanding so we can be talking about I >> think it's, you know back, Teo, The glory days of the TCP epi Internet revolution. He sent a package from here to there. It's a step. Take a first step. I personally listening to you talk feel and I said, It's on The Cuban people know that. You know, my my rap know that I've been pounding this. There's a counter culture in there somewhere. Counter culture's is where action happens, and I think you know, tax regulation and, you know, the current generations inherited. It is what it is we have. You're laying out essentially the current situation. John Markoff wrote a great book, What the door Mail said, talking about how the sixties counterculture influence the computer industry from breaking in for getting computer time for time sharing, too hippy revolution question I have for you put you on the spot. Is Is there a counterculture in your mind? Coming a digital hippie quotes is because I feel it. I feel that that let the air out of the balloon before it pops. Something has to happen and I think has to be a counterculture. I yet yet can't put my finger on it. Maybe it's a digital kind of a revolution, something compelling that says Whoa time out. >> All right? I think we need a couple of counter culture's in that in layers of it, because, um, I think there is going to be or is starting to be a counterculture amongst technologist and the technology industry and entrepreneurs who are some it's still small who are saying, You know what? This chasing unicorns and fastest growth and scale, you know, move faxed and break things. But, um, we want to move fast, but we want to think about whether we're breaking what we're breaking is really dangerous, you know, move fast and break things is fine, but if it's oops, we broke democracy. That isn't something that, uh that is I'm sorry you have to think about and adapt more quickly. So I think there is Are people who are talking about let's talk openly about the harm. Let's not just be tech optimists. Let's understand that it's small, but it's beginning and you're seeing it in a I for instance, the people who are saying Look, were technologists, we want to be responsible. This is a powerful weapon or tool. And let's make sure we think about how we use it. Let me just say one thing, which is, I think we needed another kind of counterculture, which I'm hoping is happing in a number of areas, which is societally saying, You know, we have a slow food movement. Maybe we just need a slow down, a little bit movement. So if you look at mindfulness, if you look at kids who are starting to say, You know what? I want to talk to someone in person, I don't. So we we need some of that counter movement where I'm hoping the pedestal starts to come back. In terms of people looking for real connectivity and not just numbers of connections, >> it's interesting, You know, everything has a symmetrical, responsible thing about it. For every fake news payload and network effect is potentially an opposite reaction of quality network effect. It's interesting, and I don't know where it is, but I think that's got it could be filled, certainly on the economic side, by new entrepreneurial thinking, like one observation I'm making is you know this. Remember, they'll bad boys of tech and he's smiling. Now It's bad gals, too, which is growing still lower numbers. So I think there's gonna be a shift to the good, the good folks right moment. But she's a she's a good entrepreneur. She's not just out there to make a quick buck or hey, mission driven za signal we're seeing. So you start to see a little bit more of a swing to Whoa, hey, let's recognize that it's not about, you know, could Buck or >> so, yes, but between you and I, it's teeny compared to the other forces. So that's what those of us who believe that needs to happen need to continue to >> one of those forces money making. >> I think it's a combination of, Ah, money and how much money, Dr. Celebrity culture, um, the forces, the power that's in place is so strong that it's hard to break through, um, short term thinking, not even being trained. So like so many things in our culture, where you have entrenched power and then you see uprising and you get hope and that's where you need the hope. But, um, we've seen it so often in so many movements, from race to gender, where you think, Oh, that's solved, it's not solved and then you come back in and come back at it. So I just I would argue that there is little bits of it, but it needs fuel. It needs continuity. It it. And the reason I think we need some government regulation is it needs help because it's not gonna >> happen. You should question, you know, some successes that I point out Amazon Web services, Google even having a long game kind of narrative they're always kind of were misunderstood at first. Remember, Google was loud by search is not doing too well. Then the rest is history. Amazon was laughed. Amazon Web services was laughed at. So people who have the long game seemed to be winning in these transitions. And that's kind of what you're getting at. You think long term, the long game. If you think in terms of the long term vision, you then going look at consequences differently. How many people do you run in? The valleys actually think like that. Okay, >> so we're talking about two different things. One is long term thinking, and I do think that apple, Google, Amazon have taken long term thinking's. So there are a good example. But if you look at them, if we look at the big companies in terms of the way they approached the market and competition and their potential negative impacts on overall society, they're part of the power. They're not doing anything to change the systems, to not >> have good and continue to benefit. The rich get richer. >> So there this This is why it's complicated. There are not good guys and bad guys there are. These people are doing this and that. So do I think overall dough? I see more long term thinking. Um, not really. I think that the incentives in the investment community, the incentives in the stock market. The incentives culturally are still very much around shorter term thinking. Not that there aren't any, but >> yeah, I would agree. I mean, it tends to be, you know, Hey, we're crushing it. We're winning, you know? Look at us. Growth hack. I mean, just the languages. Semantics. You look at that. I think it's changed. I think Facebook is, I think, the poster child of short term thinking growth hacks move fast, break stuff and look where they are, you know, they can't actually sustaining and brand outside of Facebook, they have to buy Instagram and these other companies to actually get the kind of growth. But certainly Facebook is dominate on the financial performance, but they're kind of sitting in their situation. I think you know the bro Grammer movement, I think is kind of moving through the white common ear culture of Okay, let's get some entrepreneurship going. Great. Rod. I think that's stabilising. I think we're seeing with cloud really science and thinking for good. That's a positive sign. >> Well, I'm I'm glad to hear that from you, you know, and all >> you're probably going with. >> No, no, no, I'll take that and take that into feeding my hope because I hope, >> well, the movement is classic. Look, we're not gonna tolerate this anymore. I think transparency in my final question to you before you get to some of the more entrepreneur Question says, If you look at the role of community on data, science and connectedness, one of the things about being connected is you got potential potential for collective intelligence. So if you look at data, as I said, networks, what if there was a way to kind of hone that network to get to the truth fast? Esther, something we've been working on here, and I think that's something that, you know changes media. It changes the game. But collective intelligent, the role of the community now becomes a stakeholder and potentially laying out. So his problems and you're part of the Mayfield community was co created this video with roll community, super important people. The rule of the of the person your thoughts on >> so I community is a word that is has takes on a lot of meetings, and the problem is when you mean it one way and use it the other way, the same as data driven. So I think there's at one level which is community and conductivity that has to do with collecting input from lots of sources. And when you talk about investigative journalism or they're in environmental situations or all sorts of areas where the ability to collect information from lots of sources that air interested and analyze that information that is one level of community and connectivity and networking because of people you know which is great, there's another type. When people talk about community, they mean a sense of community in terms of what humans need and what that connectivity is. And most online networks don't give you that level. The online needs to be augmented by, Ah, inter personal understanding. And one of the problems. I think with today's technology is we're fitting humans into bits that technology Khun Support, as opposed to recognizing what are our human needs that we want to hold on to and saying There are some things that are not going to fit into somebody's data set. So in that first type of community than absolutely, I think there's lots of benefits of the cloud and wisdom of the crowd. But if you're talking about humans connecting in people. You don't have the same type of, uh, that that really community online tools can help. But we should never confuse what happens in our online world >> with your final question for, you know, we got We're pushing the time here. Thank you for spending time. First of all, it's great conversation. You've seen the movie with venture capital from the beginning. You know, all the original players seeing what is now just where's that come from? Where are we? What's the state of VC? Then? He hope to the future, they all adding value. How do you see that evolving and where are we with? >> You know, I would. I think venture capital has gone through a lot of different phases. And like so many things, especially those of us who want computers, we liketo lump them all together. They're not altogether. There are some small, Yes, like they field. And the I do think, though, that something shifted in the lead up to the dot com. Ah, and later the burst. And what shifted is venture capitalists. Before that time were company builders. They were the financiers, but they saw themselves with the entrepreneur building companies because of the expansion leading up to two thousand, and the funds grew and the people coming into the field were, they became more bankers and they took more financial supposed to balancing financing and entrepreneurship. It felt like it moved. Maurin toe. This is a private equity play, Um, and I think the dynamic with entrepreneurs and the methodology overall shifted, and I don't know that that's changed Now again, not across the board. I think there are some, uh, those firms that have identified our partners within firms who still very much want Teo filled companies and partner with entrepreneurs. But I think the dynamic shifted, and if you view them as that's what they are, is private equity investors. And don't expect something else. If people need money, that's a good pick. Ones that are the best partner >> is your partner. If you want a banker, go here. If you want Builder, go their key distinction. Judy. Thanks for sharing that insight. We're Judy Estrin. Sea of Jail as author of Closing Innovation. Gabbas Wellman's well known entrepreneur advisor board member formally CTO of Cisco. And again, Great gas. Thanks for coming on I'm John for Herewith. Cube conversation. Part ofmy Mayfield. People first with the Cube. Thanks for watching.

>> Live from Seattle, Washington it's theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018 brought to you by Red Hat the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and it's Ecosystem Partners. >> Well, everyone welcome back to theCube's live coverage here in Seattle for KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Three days of coverage around the Cloud Native growth, around the Ecosystem around open source, and the role of micro servers in the cloud. Our next guest is Roland Barcia who's the IBM Distinguished Engineer for IBM's Hybrid Cloud. Welcome to theCube. >> Thank you, glad to be here. >> Thanks for joining us. Being a Distinguished Engineer of IBM is a pretty big honor so congratulations. >> Thank you. >> it means you got technical chops so we can get down and dirty if we want to. >> Sure. >> I want to get your take on this because a lot of companies in IT are transforming and then that's been called digital transformation, it's happening and cloud has developed scale. And the wish list if you had the magic wand that could make things do better is actually happening. Supernetting's actually creating some goodness that if you had the magic wand, if I asked that question three years ago, if you had a magic wand what would an environment look like? Seamless operations around the cloud, so it's kind of happening. How are you guys positioned for this? Talk about the IBM cloud, what you're doing here, and how you see this cloud native market exploding. It's almost 8,000 people here up from 4,000 last year. >> Yeah, that's a great question I think. I work a lot with our enterprise clients. I'm part of what's called the IBM Cloud Garage, so I'm very customer facing. And often times, we're seeing that there is different paces of a journey. And so for example, I worked with a client that started building a cloud native application. They built about 60 micro services. And at the end of that, they were deploying it as one job which means they defeated the whole purpose of micro service architecture. And so what we really need to think about is an end to end journey. I think the developers are probably the more modern role in an enterprise, but we're starting to see modernization of an operations team for example, and adopting culture, and cutting down the walls of IT organizational groups into mixed squads, adopting something like a Spotify model. And I think a lot of the challenges in adopting kubernetes is really in cultural aspects and in enterprise. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. And because network guys are different than the app guys, and now they have policy knobs on kubernetes they can play with. Network guys love policy. >> Yeah, and they're fighting over ownership, right? >> Roland indeed. We look at that modernization, the application modernization really is that long home intent. And what we hear here is you need to be able to meet customers where they are. Sure, there's some stuff they're building shiny and new and have the developers, but enterprises have a lot of application and therefore there's a grand spectrum. What do you hear from customers? What's the easy part and where's the parts they're getting stuck? >> Yeah, so I think the easy part is writing the application. I think where they're getting stuck is really scaling it to the enterprise, doing the operations, doing the DevOps. I always tell people that a modernization journey might be better started by taking a certain class of applications like middleware where we have a WebSphere heritage from IBM, and saying why don't we take a look at containerizing that. We've built tools like Transformation Advisor that'll scan your WebSphere applications and tell you what do you need to change in that middleware application to make it behave well in a containerized platform. Then from there, you build your DevOps engine, your DevOps pipeline and you really start to get your operations teams going in delivering containers, delivering applications as containers. And then getting your policies and your standards in place. Then you can start opening up around innovation and start really driving towards building cloud native new applications in addition to that. >> One of those areas we've been talking about in the industry for decades is automation. The conversation's a little bit different these days. Maybe you can bring us up to speed about what's different than say it was earlier days. >> Yeah, I think IT organizations have always done a bit of automation. I think they write scripts, they automate builds. I think the mantra that I use is automate everything, right? Organizations need to really start to automate in a new way. How I deliver containers, but delivering the app is not enough. I need to automate all levels of testing in a modern way. Test driven development is big. At the IBM Cloud Garage, we have something we call the IBM Cloud Garage Method which really takes a set of practices like test driven development, pair programming, things out of lean startup, extreme programming, and really start to help enterprises adopt those practices. So I say why can't we automate end to end performance testing in the pipeline, and functional testing, and writing them early and in the beginning of projects? That way, as I'm deploying containers which are very dynamic, along with configuration, and along with policy you're testing it continuously. And I think that level of automation is what we need to get to. >> Talk about security as well 'cause security's one of those things where it's got to be baked in upfront. You got to think about it holistically. It's also now being pulled out of IT, it's more of a board function because the risk management is one hack you could get crushed. And so you got to have security. And the container there's a security boundary issue, so it's important. >> Last week we met with an insurance company. We did a workshop. And they walked us through all the compliant steps that they need to go through today. How they do it with traditional middleware and virtual machines and hardware and it was a very, what I'm going to say governance driven process. And so a lot of checks and balances, stop don't move forward, which is really the industry for developing and innovating is going the opposite way: self service and enabling. And there's a lot of risk with that. And so what we're really trying to do with technology is like Multicloud Manager, technology we have around multicluster, management is how do I do things like I want to check which clusters are Hipaa compliant and which ones are out. How do i force that policy? >> That's smart. >> Now that everything is software driven, software developed, there's an opportunity to really automate those checks. >> So your point automate everything. >> Yeah, I want to automate everything. >> Governance is a service. (laughing) >> Yeah, that's right. And actually, that can help get away from error prone human checks where they had all these tons of documents of all different policies they have to go through can now be automated in a seamless way. >> So compliance and governance could be a stumbling block or it can be just part of the software. That's what you're getting at here. >> That's right, that's what I'm getting at. I think the transition is look at it as an opportunity now that everything is software driven, use software disciplines that developers are used to in those security roles and those CSO roles, etc. >> So I want to ask you a question. So one of the things we're seeing obviously with the cloud is it's great for certain things, and then on premises it has latency issues. We saw Amazon essentially endorse this by saying RDS on VMware on premises. They announced Outpost had reinvent oh, latency. Things aren't moving into the cloud as fast. So you're going to see this hybrid environment. So hybrids, we get that, it's been around, check. No real discussion other than it's happening. The real trend is multicloud, right? >> That' right. >> And so multicloud is just a modern version of the word multi vendor about the client server days. So systems were a multi vendor man choice. This is a fundamental thing. It's not so much about multicloud as it is about choice. How do you guys see that? You are in an environment where you have a lot of customers who don't have one cloud, so this is a big upcoming trend in 2019. >> Most of our clients have at least five different clouds that they deal with, whether it be an IaaS, a PaaS, a SaaS base solution. What we're seeing as a trend is we talked about on premise and private and enterprise is I think is 80% of workloads are still in the data center. And so they want to build that private cloud environment as a transitionary point to public, but what we're seeing across the multicloud space is I'm going to say a new integration space. So if you really think 15 years ago, SOA and enterprise service bosses in a very centralized fashion, I think there's a new opportunity for integration across clouds and on-prem in a more decentralized way. So I think integration is kind of the next trend that we're seeing in this multicloud space because the new applications that we're seeing with cognitive data AI are mixing data sources from multiple clouds and on-prem and needing to control that in a hybrid control plane is key. >> It's funny, the industry always talks about these buzzwords, multicloud. If we're talkin' about multicloud, then it's a problem. The idea of infrastructure as code it's not even use the word multicloud. I mean, if you think about it, if you're programming the infrastructure and enabling the stuff under the covers, why even talk about cloud? It should be automated, so that's the future state, but in reality, that's kind of what enterprisers are tryin' to think about. >> They are, and I think it's a tension between innovation and moving fast and control, right? The enterprisers want to move fast, but they want to make sure that they don't break security protocol, that they don't break resiliency that they're maybe have used to with their existing customers and applications. I do think the challenge is how operations teams and management teams start to act like developers to get to that point. And I think that's part of the journey. >> Open source obviously a big part of this show, and that's open source, people contribute upstream It's great stuff. IBM is a big contributor, and it'll be even more when Red Hat gets into the mix. So upstream's great, but as you got 8,000 people here, you're startin' to see people talkin' about business issues, and other things. One of the downstream impacts of this conference being so open source centric is the IT equation and then just the classic developer. So you have multiple personas now kind of interacting. You got the developer, you got the IT architect, cloud architect pro whatever, and then you got the open source community members. Melting pot: good, challenges, thoughts? >> So I think it's so developers love that, right? I think from an enterprise perspective, there are issues. We're seeing a lot of our clients with our private cloud platform ask us to build out what's called air gapped environment which is how do I build up an open source style ecosystem within my enterprise. So things like getting an artifactory registry or a Docker registry or whatever type of registry where I get certified, open source packages in my enterprise that I've gone and done security vulnerability scans with, or that I've made sure that I look at every layer from the Linux kernel all the way up to whatever software is included. So what we're seeing is how do I open the aperture a bit, but do it in a more responsible fashion I think is the key. >> Yeah, and that's for stability, right? So Stu, one of things I've been talkin' about and want to get your thoughts on this role is that you got the cloud as a scalable system then one of the things that's being discussed in Silicon Valley now for the first time, we've been sitting on theCube for years, is the cloud's a system. It's just some architecture, it's network distributing, computing, art paradigm, all that computer science has been around for awhile, right? >> Yes, yes. >> So if you've been a systems person whether hardware or whatever, operating systems, you get cloud. But also you got the horizontal specialism of applications that are using machine learning and data and applications which is unique on top. So you have the collision of those two worlds. This is kind of a modern version of two worlds that we used to call systems and apps, but they're happening in a real dynamic way. What's your thoughts on this? Because you got the benefits of horizontally scalable cloud and you now have the ability to power that so we're seeing things like AI, which has been around for a long, long time, have a renaissance because now you got a lot of compute. >> That's right, and I think data is the real big challenge we're seeing with a lot of our clients. They have a lot of it in their enterprise, they don't want to unlock it all right away. We recently did what's called IBM Cloud Private for Data, in which we brought in a set of technologies around our AI, our Watson core to really start leveraging some of those tools in a private manner. And then what we're seeing is a lot of applications that are moving to the cloud have a data drag. It might start as something as simple as caching data and no SQL databases, but very quickly they want to learn a lot more about that data. So we're seeing that mix happening all the time. >> We've had it, we've had someone say in theCube ML's the new SQL. >> Yeah. >> Because you're starting to see SQL abstraction layers are a beautiful thing if they're connected. So I want to get your thoughts on this because everyone's kind of in discovery mode right now. Learning, there's a lot of education. I mean, we're talkin' about real, big time players. Architects are becoming cloud architects. Sysadmins are becoming operators for large infrastructure scale. You see network guys goin' wait a minute, if I don't get on the new network programmable model I'm going to be irrelevant. So a lot of persona changes in the enterprise. How are you guys handling that with customers? I know you guys have the expert program. Comment on that dynamic. >> I think what we're doing is we use the IBM Cloud Garage to bring in practices like the Spotify method where we start pushing things like >> What's the Spotify method? >> Spotify method is a way of doing kind of development where rather than having your disciplines of architects, development, operations, we're now splitting teams, let's say functionally, where I have mixed disciplines in a squad and maybe saying hey, the person building the account team has an SRE, an ops guy, a dev guy all within their same squad. And then maybe have guilds across disciplines, right? And so what we do at the Garage is we bring 'em in to one of the Garages. We have four team locations worldwide. Maybe do your first project. Then we build enablement and education around that, bring it back to the enterprise and start making that viral. And that's what we're doing in the IBM Cloud Garage. >> So not a monolithic thing, breakin' it down, integrating multiple disciplines, kind of like a playlist. >> Yeah, that's right. And I think the best way to do it is to practice it, right, in action. Let's pick a project rather than talking about it. >> If I had to ask you in 2019, what is the IT investment going to look like with kubernetes impact? How does kubernetes change the IT priorities and investments for an enterprise? >> Yeah, so I think you'll see kubernetes become a vehicle for enterprises to deliver content. So one, the whole area around helm and other package managers as a way to bundle software. I think as people build more clusters, multicluster management is going to be the big trend of how do I deal now with clusters that I have in public cloud and private cloud, all different clouds? And I think that integration layer that I talked about where what does modern integration look like across kubernetes based applications. >> Someone asked me last week at Reinvent hey, can't we just automate kubernetes? And then I was like, well it's kind of automated now. What's your thoughts on that? >> So I think when someone asks a question what does it mean to automate that I think the kubernetes stack really sits on top of IaaS infrastructure. And so for example, our IBM Cloud Private you can run it on zLinux or Power. And we have a lot of IBM folks that run multi architecture clusters. And therefore, they still need a level of automating how I create clusters over IaaS and there's technologies like Terraform and others that help with that, but then there's also automating standing up the DevOps stack, automating deployment of the applications over that stack. And I think they mean automating how I use kubernetes in an environment. >> So 2019, the year of programmability and automation creating goodness around kubernetes. >> Yeah, absolutely, >> Roland, thanks for comin' >> Thank you, it was great. >> on theCube, thanks for that smart insight. TheCube coverage here, day two winding down. We got day three tomorrow. This is theCube covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018. We'll be right back with more day two coverage after this short break. (happy electronic music)

from the Hard Rock Hotel in Las Vegas it's the cube recovering no joke on 2018 brought to you by Osho okay welcome back everyone we're here live here at hosts show con in Las Vegas the first security conference for blockchain its inaugural event and we're here with Gabriel Shepherd VP of strategy at Global Strike for host show they're the hosts of the event although it's an industry conference for the entire community all coming together Gabriel thanks for coming on and spend the time yeah thanks for having me thanks for you know supporting the event and we appreciate your team coming out and covering what we're trying to build here well we think it's super important now so you guys are doing a great service for the industry and stepping up and put in the event together and so props to you guys thank you this is not a hosts show sales like conference you guys aren't selling anything you're doing the service for the community so props to you guys in the team great stuff and we know this is a kernel of all the smartest people and its really an industry event so it shows in the session so appreciate that yes we think it's important because you know we see a lot of trends the queue has a unique advantage in how we cover hundreds of events and yeah so we get to go we see a horizontal observation space from the industry and when you have formation like this with the community this is important you guys have up leveled the conversation focused the conversation around blockchain where security is the top-level conversation that's it no I feel pitches right so for the folks watch and this is really one of those events where it's not a huge number of people here like the thousands and thousands of other blockchain shows that make money off events this is about community and around getting the conversations and having substantive conversations so great job so for the folks watching the content agenda is super awesome host show con-com you go browse it but give us some color commentary on some of the types of speakers here the diversity yeah I think I think the first thing that we wanted to accomplish was with Hojo Khan was we we wanted to put front and center the conversations that were not taking place at other events there are plenty of platforms and opportunities for companies early-stage companies to go pitch there are other great conference organizers that do events and have their own wheelhouse but what we wanted to do was put together a conference that was focused around a type of conference that we ourselves would want to attend as a cybersecurity firm and you know after traveling the world I mean you know you you and artesia spoke many times and hosho has sponsored quite a few events around the world after attending by the end of 2018 will attended something like a hundred plus events in some capacity and so it was clear to us early on that companies weren't our conferences weren't going to focus on security or at least put them on the main stage where I believed that they should be at least with all the hacks happening so what we wanted to do was bring together thought leadership with respect to security technical leadership with respect to developers and security engineers and we wanted to bridge those two what I mean by that is we wanted thought leadership that could get executives to start the non-technical people so start thinking about security in the larger format and how it's applicable to their company but what we also wanted to do is we wanted to connect these non-technical people with the technical people in an intimate setting where they could learn think about the brain power that we have in this hotel for hosho Khan you've got the minds of Andre Assante innopolis Diego's LDR of RSK Michael berkland of shape-shift josub Kuan of hosho we've got Ron stone from c4 you've got an on Prakash a world-class white hat bug bounty hunter consider what he's top-5 bug bounty hunter for our top top bug bounty hunter for Facebook five years in a row the the level of the calibre of technical talent in this building has the potential to solve problems that Enterprise has been trying to solve individually for years but those conversations don't take place in earnest with the non-technical people and so the idea behind hoshikawa was to bridge those to provide education that's what we're doing things like workshops sure we have keynotes and panels but we also have the ability to teach non-technical people how to enable two-factor authentication how to set up PGP for your email how to set up your hardware wallet these things aren't these conversations are not the bridge is a clearly established we interview people from on the compliance side all the way down to custodial services which again the diversity is not a group think events just giving them more props here because I think you guys did a great job worthy of promotion because you not only bridge the communities together you're bringing people in cross functionally colonizing and the asset test for me is simple the groupthink event is when everyone's kind of rah rah each other I know this conditions we got Andre is saying hey if you put database substitute database for blockchain and it reads well it's not a real revolutionary thing and oh all you custodian services you're screwed I mean so you have perspectives on both side that's right and there's contentious conversation that's right and that to me proves it and as well as the sessions are highly attended or we don't want it we don't want a panel of everybody in agreeance because we know that's not reality i mean that you you bring up the issue of curse of custody a prime example is we had a great talk a four-person panel led by Joe Kelly who's the CEO of Unchained Capital he had a panel with traditional equities custodian Paul pooi from edge wallet Joseph Kwon is the CEO of hosho and there was clear differences of opinion with respect to custody and it got a little contentious but isn't that the point yeah it's to have these conversations in earnest and let's put them out in the public on what's right and what's wrong for the community and let the community to decide the best way forward that's the best is exactly what you want to do I gotta ask you what are the big surprises for you what have you learned what's the big reveal for you that you've super surprised you or are things you expected what were some of the things that went on here yeah I think the biggest surprise to me was the positive feedback that we received you know I understand that we know people maybe looked at how shock on year one and said hosho like they're a cybersecurity firm what are they doing running a conference right but my background is a you know I've produced conferences I have a former employee of South by Southwest I believe a big an experience and so when we started to put this together we thought we knew we would make mistakes and we certainly made mistakes with respect to programming and schedule and just things that we had didn't think about attention to detail but we had plans far in that the mistakes were mitigated that they weren't exposed to the public right there behind the scenes fires that kind like a wedding or a party but no one actually really notices sure we put them out behind the scenes nobody that the our guests don't notice and that was my biggest concern I'm pleasantly surprised at the positive feedback we've yet to get any negative feedback publicly on Twitter telegram anecdotally individually people now they made just being nice to my face but I feel good about what the response that we've got it's been good vibes here so I gotta ask you well sure the DJ's were great last night good experience yeah experience and knowledge and and networking has been a theme to correct I lost him the networking dynamics I saw a lot of people I had I had ran to some people I met for the first time we've had great outreach that with the queue was integrated in people very friendly talked about the networking and that's been going on here yeah I mean this panels are great I'd love to hear from from panels and solo presentations but a lot of work gets done in the hallways and we have a saying in the conference business hallway hustlers right the ones that are hustling in the hallways are those early stage entrepreneurs or trying to close deals trying to figure out how to get in front of the right person serendipitously are at the bar at the same time as somebody they want to meet that is to me conference 101 that is the stuff I grew up on and so we wanted to make sure that we were encouraging those interactions through traffic flow so you'll notice that they're strategically the content rooms are strategically placed so that when you're changing rooms people are forced to cross interact with each other because they're forced to bump into each other and if you look at the programming we purposefully to our demise to be honest year one put a lot of programming that was conflicted with each other we made people make a decision about what talk they wanted to go to because there were two really compelling people at the same time or 10 minutes off yeah and so you had to make a decision vote with your feet you got to vote with your feet and and and from a conference perspective we call that FOMO right we want our guests to FOMO not because we want them to miss a particular talk but because we want them to be so overwhelmed with content and opportunity with networking that they when they walk away they've had a good experience they're fulfilled but they they think I got to go back here too because that thing I missed I'm not gonna miss this yeah we will point out to you guys made a good call on film all the session everything so everything's gonna be online we'll help guys do that yep so the video is gonna be available for everyone to look on demand you also had some good broadcast here we had a couple shows the cubes been here your mobile mention the DJs yeah yeah so good stuff so okay hallway conversations our lobby con as we call it when people hang up a lot on it's always good hallway con so what Gabriel in your mind as you walked around what was some of the hallway culture that you overheard and and that you thought were interesting and what hall would cartridges were you personally involved in the personal conversations I was involved with is why isn't somebody not this station why someone not Gardens but I will tell you i from what I heard from from conference attendees the conversations that I heard taking place were and I hope Jonathan doesn't mind but Jonathan Nelson from hack fund spoke on our main stage and I hope he doesn't mind me speaking out of turn but he came to me said this is one of the best run blockchain conferences I've ever been to and to have somebody like Jonathan say that who has done hundreds of talks and thousands was really meaningful but but what was more important is to talk to him and him feel comfortable enough to sit down with me and just talk generally that's the vibe we want for every attendant we want you to feel comfortable meeting with people in the hallway who you've never met and be vulnerable from a security perspective you know Michael Turpin for example sitting down and talking proactively about being the AT&T hack great these are opportunities for people to really talk about what's happened and be vulnerable and have the opportunity to educate us all how to get better as an industry you know the other thing I want to get your thoughts on is obviously the program's been phenomenal in the content side thank you but community is really important to us we're of a community model to q you guys care about the community aspect of this and as a real event you want to have an ongoing year after year and hopefully it'll get bigger I think it will basically our results we're seeing talk about the community impact because what you're really talking about there is community that's right well I mean Vegas we talk about there's multiple communities right regionally post-show is a Vegas based company we're born here we close I think forty some employees all based here in Las Vegas which is our home so the first thing that we did with respect to community as we created a local local price if you're a Nevada resident we didn't want you to have to invest a significant amount of money to come to something in your own town the second thing we did is we've invited the local Vegas Bitcoin meet up in aetherium meet ups to come and partake and not only participate but contribute to the content and opening day in fact there was so much influx of people from those meetups it wasn't official it wasn't like a program where we had actually a VTEC set up I thought I was gonna be like a meet-up there were so many people that attended we had to on the fly provide AV because we were overwhelmed with the amount of people that showed up so that's a regional community but with respect to the community from blockchain community what we wanted to do is make sure we brought people of all ethnicities all countries we have 26 countries represented in the first blockchain security conference and you had some big-name celebrities here yeah Neil Kittleson Max Keiser you go mama Anan Prakash Yakov Prensky a layer from your side pop popcorn kochenko has some big names yeah I'll see andreas yes here keynoting yeah I'm Michel parkland andreas Diego Zaldivar I mean these lena katina Viren OVA I mean these are big names yeah these big names okay what so so what's your takeaway of you as you know my takeaway is that there's a there's a yearning for this type of event my takeaway is that we're doing something right we have the luxury as hosho and that we're not an events company people think that might be a disadvantage to run a confident you're not a cotton vent company I think it's an advantage yeah because it holds my feet to the fire yeah much closer than an event organiser who doesn't have a company reputation and brand to protect hosho as you know has a good brand in the cybersecurity world with respect to blockchain we don't have the luxury of throwing a poor event giving you a bad experience because that would tarnish house of but also your in the community so you're gonna have direct feedback that's right the other thing too I will say I'm gonna go to a lot of events and there are people who are in the business of doing events and they have a profit motive that's right so they'll know lanyards are all monetize everything is monetized yeah and that sometimes takes away from the community aspect correct and I think you guys did a good job of you know not being profligate on the events you want to yeah a little bit of cash but you didn't / yeah / focus on money-making finding people right for the cash you really needed about the content yeah and the experience for and with the community and I think that's a formula that people want yeah I would like to see the model I would like to see the model changed over time if I'm being honest a majority of crypto conferences today are paid to play so a lot of the content you're getting this sponsored so I'm okay with that but I think it should be delineated between con disclose your disclosure you don't want water down the country but but the conference circuit and crypto is not ready for that it hasn't rest in my opinion hasn't reached that level of maturation yet like I told you I I'm a former South by Southwest guy that like my belief is you create the content and the sponsors will come I don't I don't begrudge conference organizers for for for sponsoring out events because they're really really expensive a cost per attend to manage demand to this hype out there yeah hundreds of dollars per attendee I get it I understand why they do it but what I would like to see is the model change over time whereas as we get more sophisticated as a technology space we should also grow as a vent and conference circuit as well what I mean by that is let's change the model that eventually someday it's free for all attendees to come and those conferences and the costs associated with them are subsidized by companies that want access to the people that are tending them it sounds like an upstream open source project sure how open source became so popular you don't screw with the upstream yep but you have downstream opportunities so if you create a nice upstream model yep that's the cube philosophy as well we totally agree with you and I think you guys are onto something pioneering with the event I think you're motivated to do it the community needs it yeah I think that's ultimately the self governing aspect of it I think you're off to something really good co-creation yeah I'll see we believe in that and the results speak for themselves congratulations thank you so much I appreciate you guys coming here and investing your time and I hope that all our staff has been accommodated and the hard rock is treated you well you guys been great very friendly but I think again you know outside of you guys is a great company and great brand and you guys and speaks for itself and the results this is an important event I agreed because of the timing because of this focus its crypto its crypto revolution its cybersecurity and FinTech all kind of coming together through huge global demand I mean we haven't gotten into IOT and supply chain yeah all the hacks going on with China and these things being reported this is serious business is a lot on the line a lot and you guys having a clear focus on that is really a service business Thank You staff doing it alright our cube coverage here in Las Vegas for host Joe Kahn this is the first conference of its kind where security is front and center it is the conference for security and blockchain bringing the worlds together building the bridges and building the community bridges as well we love that that's our belief as well as the cube coverage here in Vegas tigress more after this short break

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Girls in Tech Catalyst Conference, brought to you by Girls in Tech. (upbeat digital music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Fransico at the Girls In Tech Catalyst Conference 2018. About 700 people, mainly women, some men. I think they brought in a school bus load of girls to participate. And really it's a two-day, single track conference. A lot of, just presentations by senior executive women telling their story, how they got to where they were, giving some inspirational advice. And we're psyched to be here. Adriana runs a great, great conference. It's a super organization, and we're excited to have our next guest. She's Wendy Howell, the chief of staff for Cisco Services. Wendy, great to see you. >> Great to see you, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, so you're here instead of Cisco Live, which I think is great for you. What do think about this event? Why are you involved in Girls in Tech? >> Yeah, so I discovered Girls in Tech probably about three years ago and saw Adriana speak on just some interview. And I went, I don't know who she is, but I love her, and I love her message. So fast forward, attended my first Catalyst about three years ago, found out that we had two VPs that were on the board at Cisco which I didn't know. So, what's going on here? Let's do something with these guys. They were trying to put together a global partnership, and we really, they just couldn't get it over the line. Well, what's the problem? Funding. Okay, well let's fund it and let's just go. So we signed a global partnership two years ago with Girls in Tech. We've done, I think we've sponsored, overall with Cisco, about 15 different events. Catalyst Conference, AMPLIFY Women's Pitch Night. I think we've done eight. Hacking for Humanity events globally. It's just an amazing organization. It's the right organization at the right time. You know Adriana. She is amazing, she's a force of nature. And so I liken myself to be a mini Adriana for Cisco. (laughs) It's the time to get more and more focus on getting women in tech, and especially making sure that we have role models for the young ladies that are coming up in technology. >> Right, right. That's funny, that's how we found Adriana as well. I think she was on at a IBM event many, many moons ago and said you know, we got to get involved. >> It was random. >> The Pitch Night is really fun. You know, that's just a great event. And one of the ones from a couple years ago is really taking off, the little like, tile-like device. >> That's right, that's right. >> Which I can't remember the name, but it's not tile. >> And in fact, I saw one of your interviews, I think it was Sandy Carter. I don't know whether it was >> Yeah. the last year or the year before, I just did volunteer, >> Good, good. and it was great. >> So you know, the sponsorship list has really grow this year, and it's a who's who of corporate logos, >> Absolutely. which is great. We're looking at it over, across the way. And we talked about it a little bit before we turned on the cameras, about how some of the bigger tech companies specifically, 'cause it's kind of a tech focused event, obviously, can be, not only more involved, but a little bit more thoughtful, a little bit more organized, a little bit more coordinated in the way that they put resources behind events such as Girls in Tech. So why don't talk to kind of what your experience is there, what are guys doing, how are you trying to add a little bit more purpose and organization behind your efforts? >> Right, and again, originally the partnership, it came together quite fast after we sort of said hey let's just go do this. So then our first year, we really were focused specifically on events, and let's do events together to really get our name associated with the brand of Girls in Tech, which is global, and phenomenoal, and 100,000 plus members, etc. This year, in our second year, I think we're being a little more thoughtful, and we really want to continue to show the ROI for our organization. So we're really focusing more on the recruiting aspect. And there's some new cool things coming out on that front from Girls In Tech. And I really want to just say, hey it's great to have our name associated with Girls In Tech, but what's it doing for us? What are we doing for the women that we're supporting? Let's hire them into Cisco, let's hire them into AWS. So that's a real big key focus area for us this year. Plus the events, 'cause this is, you know, not only is it great for us, but I get to bring my team here and they come away feeling fantastic and amazing, and I get all psyched watching all these young ladies walk around. >> Right. >> Many of them, I'm like, I wasn't even thinking about things like this when I was your age. Back in the day (laughs). >> That's right, dune day, thankfully. >> That's right. >> So that's interesting, in terms of how do you measure your ROI in the investment? Clearly, recruiting has got to big a piece right? You can never get enough >> Yeah. people, and even though machines are going to take everybody's job, Everyone >> That's right one day seems to have a whole lot of open recs, and can't fill the people. So is there anything else that you look at besides just hiring, or is it the number of people that come through the process? How do you measure? 'Cause we know it's not only just good and the right thing to do, but there's real business benefit to participating in diversity programs. >> Absolutely. And I mean, every large organization right now, over the last three years, has come to that realization. This diversity is not just a buzz word, it's a thing. We know that there is greater ideas that come out of it, more diverse ideas, bookings, I mean, there's real, relatable, tangible feedback that you can get from it, right? >> Right, right. So recruiting is a big one for us, but also we look at the impact. You know, every quarter, we sit down with Girls In Tech and we get an impact report of what are you Cisco, what have you done, Cisco, and what has it done for Girls In Tech, and what has it done for us? How many people have we had attend a Hack-A-Thon? How many dollars have we supported with? How many people are going through a boot camp? So that's sort of the way we look at it as well, the impact report, also. >> And do you find it's a higher kind of ROI, in, not so much a smaller organization, but these are relatively small events compared to Cisco Live and a lot of the big events that are in the industry. Is it just a more focused return? Is it a better return? How does it fit in with your whole strategy? Yeah, I would call it more focused. It's more of a niche, but it still provides us, and we're growing, right? So we're only >> Right. the second year in, and I truly believe that if we continue our focus in this area, I can see a strong, high trajectory if you will. >> Right. So just a pitch for companies like Cisco that aren't involved with Girls in Tech, who you may compete with, you may not compete with, you probably partner with out in the ecosystem, what would you tell 'em about this organization and why they should get more involved? Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple things. So number one, Adriana herself, and the brand of her, and the brand that is Girls In Tech now. If you think about it, I mean, 10, 11 years now, so going from one chapter to 62 plus, hopefully 75, I think, by 2020 is the goal, and now 100,000 plus members, being associated with this brand is fabulous for your business, but you know, it's also the right thing to do. Because again, I go back to my super passionate about the next generation of female leaders and these role models that the younger folks are seeing. You can't, you can't even put a price on how valuable that is for them. >> It's so funny, talk about the role models, we interviewed Maria Klawe, who runs Harvey Mudd, years ago, at Grace Hopper, and that was such a big part of her theme right? >> Are there people, >> Absolutely. are there women that the younger gals can look up to, and see oh, she looks kind of like me, or I could be like like her one day, and it's such an important thing. And she talked about, you know, Zuckerburg, and Jobs, and kind of the male tech rock stars, if you will, are tech rock stars, but they're not necessarily the ones that some 14 year old [Wendy] 10-25, or 14 13 year old, or 25 is going to look up to and say, that's me >> Exactly. in a few years, if I work, so ... >> Exactly. >> It's such an important piece of the whole component. >> My friend, a buddy of mine, she's the founder of Austin Women magazine. And she has this catch phrase that's fabulous. She goes, the female role models, if you can't see it, you can't be it. So if I'm a 24 year old young lady that's graduating, and I don't see anyone else who looks like me, then what do I do? So that's why I love this event in particular. It's my passion event, yeah. >> Alright, well Wendy, your passion comes through and thanks for taking a few minutes of your time with us. >> Absolutely, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. Alright, she's Wendy Howell, I'm Jeff Frick. We are at Girls In Tech Catalyst in downtown San Francisco, thanks for watching. (upbeat digital music)

>> From San Francisco, it's theCUBE covering Girls in Tech Catalyst Conference, brought to you by Girls in Tech. (upbeat digital music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in downtown San Fransico at the Girls In Tech Catalyst Conference 2018. About 700 people, mainly women, some men. I think they brought in a school bus load of girls to participate. And really it's a two-day, single track conference. A lot of, just presentations by senior executive women telling their story, how they got to where they were, giving some inspirational advice. And we're psyched to be here. Adriana runs a great, great conference. It's a super organization, and we're excited to have our next guest. She's Wendy Howell, the chief of staff for Cisco Services. Wendy, great to see you. >> Great to see you, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely, so you're here instead of Cisco Live, which I think is great for you. What do think about this event? Why are you involved in Girls in Tech? >> Yeah, so I discovered Girls in Tech probably about three years ago and saw Adriana speak on just some interview. And I went, I don't know who she is, but I love her, and I love her message. So fast forward, attended my first Catalyst about three years ago, found out that we had two VPs that were on the board at Cisco which I didn't know. So, what's going on here? Let's do something with these guys. They were trying to put together a global partnership, and we really, they just couldn't get it over the line. Well, what's the problem? Funding. Okay, well let's fund it and let's just go. So we signed a global partnership two years ago with Girls in Tech. We've done, I think we've sponsored, overall with Cisco, about 15 different events. Catalyst Conference, AMPLIFY Women's Pitch Night. I think we've done eight. Hacking for Humanity events globally. It's just an amazing organization. It's the right organization at the right time. You know Adriana. She is amazing, she's a force of nature. And so I liken myself to be a mini Adriana for Cisco. (laughs) It's the time to get more and more focus on getting women in tech, and especially making sure that we have role models for the young ladies that are coming up in technology. >> Right, right. That's funny, that's how we found Adriana as well. I think she was on at a IBM event many, many moons ago and said you know, we got to get involved. >> It was random. >> The Pitch Night is really fun. You know, that's just a great event. And one of the ones from a couple years ago is really taking off, the little like, tile-like device. >> That's right, that's right. >> Which I can't remember the name, but it's not tile. >> And in fact, I saw one of your interviews, I think it was Sandy Carter. I don't know whether it was >> Yeah. the last year or the year before, I just did volunteer, >> Good, good. and it was great. >> So you know, the sponsorship list has really grow this year, and it's a who's who of corporate logos, >> Absolutely. which is great. We're looking at it over, across the way. And we talked about it a little bit before we turned on the cameras, about how some of the bigger tech companies specifically, 'cause it's kind of a tech focused event, obviously, can be, not only more involved, but a little bit more thoughtful, a little bit more organized, a little bit more coordinated in the way that they put resources behind events such as Girls in Tech. So why don't talk to kind of what your experience is there, what are guys doing, how are you trying to add a little bit more purpose and organization behind your efforts? >> Right, and again, originally the partnership, it came together quite fast after we sort of said hey let's just go do this. So then our first year, we really were focused specifically on events, and let's do events together to really get our name associated with the brand of Girls in Tech, which is global, and phenomenoal, and 100,000 plus members, etc. This year, in our second year, I think we're being a little more thoughtful, and we really want to continue to show the ROI for our organization. So we're really focusing more on the recruiting aspect. And there's some new cool things coming out on that front from Girls In Tech. And I really want to just say, hey it's great to have our name associated with Girls In Tech, but what's it doing for us? What are we doing for the women that we're supporting? Let's hire them into Cisco, let's hire them into AWS. So that's a real big key focus area for us this year. Plus the events, 'cause this is, you know, not only is it great for us, but I get to bring my team here and they come away feeling fantastic and amazing, and I get all psyched watching all these young ladies walk around. >> Right. >> Many of them, I'm like, I wasn't even thinking about things like this when I was your age. Back in the day (laughs). >> That's right, dune day, thankfully. >> That's right. >> So that's interesting, in terms of how do you measure your ROI in the investment? Clearly, recruiting has got to big a piece right? You can never get enough >> Yeah. people, and even though machines are going to take everybody's job, Everyone >> That's right one day seems to have a whole lot of open recs, and can't fill the people. So is there anything else that you look at besides just hiring, or is it the number of people that come through the process? How do you measure? 'Cause we know it's not only just good and the right thing to do, but there's real business benefit to participating in diversity programs. >> Absolutely. And I mean, every large organization right now, over the last three years, has come to that realization. This diversity is not just a buzz word, it's a thing. We know that there is greater ideas that come out of it, more diverse ideas, bookings, I mean, there's real, relatable, tangible feedback that you can get from it, right? >> Right, right. So recruiting is a big one for us, but also we look at the impact. You know, every quarter, we sit down with Girls In Tech and we get an impact report of what are you Cisco, what have you done, Cisco, and what has it done for Girls In Tech, and what has it done for us? How many people have we had attend a Hack-A-Thon? How many dollars have we supported with? How many people are going through a boot camp? So that's sort of the way we look at it as well, the impact report, also. >> And do you find it's a higher kind of ROI, in, not so much a smaller organization, but these are relatively small events compared to Cisco Live and a lot of the big events that are in the industry. Is it just a more focused return? Is it a better return? How does it fit in with your whole strategy? >> Yeah, I would call it more focused. It's more of a niche, but it still provides us, and we're growing, right? So we're only >> Right. the second year in, and I truly believe that if we continue our focus in this area, I can see a strong, high trajectory if you will. >> Right. So just a pitch for companies like Cisco that aren't involved with Girls in Tech, who you may compete with, you may not compete with, you probably partner with out in the ecosystem, what would you tell 'em about this organization and why they should get more involved? >> Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple things. So number one, Adriana herself, and the brand of her, and the brand that is Girls In Tech now. If you think about it, I mean, 10, 11 years now, so going from one chapter to 62 plus, hopefully 75, I think, by 2020 is the goal, and now 100,000 plus members, being associated with this brand is fabulous for your business, but you know, it's also the right thing to do. Because again, I go back to my super passionate about the next generation of female leaders and these role models that the younger folks are seeing. You can't, you can't even put a price on how valuable that is for them. >> It's so funny, talk about the role models, we interviewed Maria Klawe, who runs Harvey Mudd, years ago, at Grace Hopper, and that was such a big part of her theme right? >> Are there people, >> Absolutely. are there women that the younger gals can look up to, and see oh, she looks kind of like me, or I could be like like her one day, and it's such an important thing. And she talked about, you know, Zuckerburg, and Jobs, and kind of the male tech rock stars, if you will, are tech rock stars, but they're not necessarily the ones that some 14 year old [Wendy] 10-25, or 14 13 year old, or 25 is going to look up to and say, that's me >> Exactly. in a few years, if I work, so ... >> Exactly. >> It's such an important piece of the whole component. >> My friend, a buddy of mine, she's the founder of Austin Women magazine. And she has this catch phrase that's fabulous. She goes, the female role models, if you can't see it, you can't be it. So if I'm a 24 year old young lady that's graduating, and I don't see anyone else who looks like me, then what do I do? So that's why I love this event in particular. It's my passion event, yeah. >> Alright, well Wendy, your passion comes through and thanks for taking a few minutes of your time with us. >> Absolutely, thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. Alright, she's Wendy Howell, I'm Jeff Frick. We are at Girls In Tech Catalyst in downtown San Francisco, thanks for watching. (upbeat digital music)

>> Announcer: From San Francisco, it's theCube. Covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, this is theCube's exclusive live coverage of Samsung Development Conference, SDC 2017. I'm John Furrier, the founder, co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, co-host of theCube. My next guest is Kevin Hague, Vice President of Technology Strategy at Harman, now part of Samsung. His twitter handle is JSGuy. Welcome to theCube. >> Thank you, thank you having me. >> So HARMAN has a lot of cool things. Obviously, you're known for music, audio, in-car stuff, headphones, really the premier audio tech. >> Kevin: Yes, yeah. >> So give us the update. Part of Samsung. When did that happen? What have you guys done? Have you integrated in to the edge of the network? Is entertainment. >> It is these days. And it seems like more and more people are becoming interested in audio. Audio's becoming, you know, a big part of everybody's lives. Everybody will have headphones at work, connected devices at home, with AIs and voice assistance in their car. You know, we're huge in the car. A huge percentage of our automotive business is in audio, and infotainment, IVI systems, and we're really excited to be here at the Samsung Developer Conference, because this is our first conference, kind of together, and we're excited to show off a lot of cool developer tech. >> So we're huge on internet of things. I've been saying this for years, but now it's so clear to the developer community that internet of things includes people. Wearables, we had guests on doing dresses that are part of the internet, and technology with robotic arms and software. But headphones, you guys have a cool program called Hack Your Headphones. Which, tell a little about that, and then we'll talk about this new product that's here on the desk, I can't wait to get to, but >> Yeah, we have a couple of new products >> Hack your headphones, I mean, you got to get developers excited, because augmented reality and virtual reality, no one wants to put those damn goggles on. And it's got no audio. >> That's right. Yeah, so we're trying to fix that with this particular product, which is the JBL Everest Elite headphones. And it's probably one of the first consumer hackable headphones. We have an API, out for Android, that allows the developer to control many of the features and functions of this headphone. And we've added a lot of extra features, so this thing not only, when you put it on, and you're wearing virtual VR goggles, you're immersed, right? And you don't even know what's going on in the outside world. Well, we've come up with some tech that allows some of the outside world to come in programmatically. So within a game, or a VR game, or a VR application, you can do something where the outside noise can be added in to the gameplay. So let's say if you're playing Fruit Ninja, or something really crazy on your VR goggles, and you're about to hit somebody, it could warn you through audio signals. So we're really excited about these headphones, lots of other features that developers would like. >> So let's talk about the API, because this is a really cool feature, and I want to get to that again, the new thing, new device that's coming out of this new, breaking news here on theCube, which is, these headphones, is about, you guys have the normal coolness around, noise canceling, all that stuff, but you guys have tech that actually lets developers play with the settings. >> Kevin: That's right. >> So you actually reverse the settings. Right? Like, imagining, like, okay, what if I want to increase the noise out that comes in. Is that the concept? >> That's right. And so we can adjust, the developers can adjust, almost an infinite levels, the noise ratio from outside to inside. So if you want it perfectly quiet, you can set that. If you want it where a lot of outside noise is coming in, you can adjust that as well, without having to do this to talk to somebody. >> It's almost tap your phone, tap your app, or have some notifications sensing, so you're looking for creativity from the developer community. >> That's the objective. >> We are. And we don't actually know what developers are going to do. I always have a saying, that says, If I put ten of my smartest guys in a room for a week, they're going to come up with a 100 ideas. If I throw this out to the developer community, they're going to come up with a 1,000 ideas, and I think that's what we're looking for, is that kind of creative spark, and we're just going to give them platform to do that on. >> And that's super smart, because now you can let the creative development community tinker around, and kick the tires. You guys get the free access to the creative, but also you have APIs that make it kind of stable. >> That's right. And that's that something that we support. We love developers to play with. >> Alright, so now you have a new product. So this is the exclusive Cube coverage. So let's see this new product. >> Actually, we just sent boxes right before coming on set. >> Here, let me introduce this thing. So this is looks like a collar. Goes around your neck. So, first of all, what's the product name? >> So this is a JBL Sound Gear, and it's going to be available starting next month. So this is, as far as I know, the first one in the United States. I can't say that for sure, but that's the first one I've seen in the United States. >> So it looks like one of those old football collars, but you put it around like this, and it allows for music to come up only to my ears, right? Actually, let's turn on the music, and then they'll actually get to hear through my little headset here. >> Kevin: Yeah, we'll just throw something on. There's a little, it's kind of cranked up, actually. >> Okay, so this is cranked up. Can you hear this? >> Kevin: Just a little bit. >> So he can barely hear this. I'm, like, talking loud. >> Kevin: Yeah, yeah, that's right, because it's pretty loud to you. >> So I could be a gamer, I could be doing virtual reality with a headset. This is kind of like my ear experience, without and freeing my arms up. >> Yeah, that's right. And the nice thing is, we're looking in the future, and seeing augmented reality-type experiences are going to be important. But with augmented reality, you want that kind of pass through. So I want to be able to talk to you while you have your glasses on, or whatever the future brings us. >> So I can get a little notification, bing, you got this car coming, or about to get attacked by my app. >> Yeah, imagine walking down the street. Now you can listen to your music while walking down the street, and not worry about getting hit by a car or something. >> Or pissing people off. Hey, turn your headphones on! Or having some ambient noise coming in so I'm aware. >> Kevin: Yeah, that's right. >> Yeah, that's cool. >> And so that's a really exciting product. >> They're not that flexible. >> Yeah, it's a little bit. So I think a lot of people put it on from the side and twist it around, but it's actually a pretty solid product, and we're, you know, it's a transformative product. There's nobody else shipping anything like this that I know of. >> So it has a little bit of wiggle, but it's not, you could break it if you snap it, like a chicken bone. >> Kevin: Yeah, don't do that. As far as I know it's the only one in the United States. >> You can just throw it too, it's like horseshoes. Just toss it. >> We have other uses. Yes, we made it multiuse. >> Don't toss it. It's not horseshoes. That's awesome. And you've also got a little pow here, but also now, the problem with some of these devices is on, watching TV, or interfacing with a large screen, there's latency issues and if people are talking, and you're hearing it separately. A lot of internet streamings we see that. It's not like direct connected. >> Kevin: Yes. >> Talk about that. How does that address that? Does it have a feature where you could create a low latency connection to something that's either on the internet or TV? >> Sure, so there's a couple of different ways, so like audio latency's very important, especially if you're watching TV, and lip sync, it's always weird if you get that delay, and so, that's why we actually pair with this in the box comes a low latency transmitter. So it's plug and play, plug it into your TV, turn on this, it pairs up. Now you can watch TV seamlessly in the house without disturbing like everybody. >> I can watch my football games, make some dinner, lunch, whatever. >> Or even late night TV, somebody's asleep in the same room as you, and it won't disturb them, right? >> My wife, Linda, Linda, if you're watching, this is perfect, save our marriage. Turn the TV off! Maybe not that. But it'll be a first step, but this is exactly the use of these. Create a personal space, and the technology as it shoots up from the sides. >> Yeah, there's two speakers on each side. >> And it shoots up to the ear, so it comes up this way. >> That's right. And we do a lot of work to make sure that the beam of sound stays in the vertical space, so that a lot of people can't hear it from outside maybe three feet. Literally, when you first put it on, I couldn't even tell it was working, and I was going, can you hear it? And you're like, oh, it's loud! And so. >> And the folks listening heard it to, 'cause my microphone was right there. >> That's right, yes, and that's the side effect, is in this area here, you have full. >> Okay so this product >> Full awareness. >> will be shipped and it's called the >> AVL Sound Gear. >> Sound Gear, it's available next month. >> Next month. >> In Best Buy retail. >> Best Buy retail. MSRP I think is going to be 249. >> Which includes some accessories, right? >> It includes a couple of accessories, like the streaming unit and everything. >> Yeah, that's awesome. So it's not going to break the bank. >> I don't think so. >> Good. Well, so that's a good price point, I'm definitely going to buy one. >> It's definitely different. It's not like just a regular pair of headphones. This is also available in the stores today, the 750. >> And how about this being developer enabled? API's for this, too, or not yet? >> Not yet, but stay tuned. >> This is the total Star Trek device. >> Kevin: It is. >> If you're a Star Trek classic fan like me, you know the thrall collars. (laughter) >> Kevin: That's awesome. >> And certainly, I can use this. It's got voice in there just so I can talk to it, like on conference calls? >> That's right. You can do a conference call with it, or. >> Have intercommunications on gameplay, multiplayer? >> That's right. >> So yeah, I think gamers are going to love this. >> I think so, too. >> Yeah, my son plays Call of Duty and Destiny. >> It's very comfortable to wear. I think that's one of the key things, is once you get it on, it feels like, when I've tried some of our early prototypes of it, I forgot that I was even wearing it. >> I can listen to theCube music while talking to the guests. >> Kevin: I know, we need to get you one of these. I mean, we'll get you one soon so you can try it. >> Promotional considerations by Samsung. >> Kevin: That's right. >> Kevin, thanks for coming on, great tunes, old school classics. Yeah, crank it up a little bit more, we'll end on some music. Kevin Hague, Vice President of Technology at Harmon, (upbeat music) Samsung. Bringing all the developer action to you here, theCube. >> Kevin: Thanks for having me. >> Alright. More after this short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat pop music) >> Narrator: Live from Austin, Texas, it's theCUBE. Covering South by Southwest 2017. Brought to you by Intel. Now, here's John Furrier. >> Okay welcome back everyone. We are here live at South by Southwest at the Intel AI lounge. This is SiliconANGLE's theCUBE, talking to some great guests. The theme for this week is AI for Social Good. I'm John Furrier with SiliconANGLE, our next guest is Federico Gomez Suarez, technical advisor and volunteer at Thorn, doing some really amazing things with technology for the betterment of society. Specifically a use case. So Federico, welcome to theCUBE, welcome to the AI Lounge here at Intel. >> Thank you very much for having me. >> So talk about Thorn. First of all, you work for Microsoft, but you're a volunteer? >> Correct. >> Talk about what Thorn is, and what you guys do. It's really a great story. >> So Thorn is a non-profit which focuses on driving technological innovation to fight child sexual exploitation. And it does it two ways. One of them is by doing research to find the new trends and the new ways that this is happening. But also by using the latest technology to find ways that we can actually fight this problem. Thorn has something called an innovation lab, where we're always trying new technology, we're trying AI just to find new ways to fight the problem. >> So this is really a great use case of where technology is being used for the betterment of society and good, because what you're doing is taking really cutting edge big data, machine learning, AI techniques. And the rage right now is facial recognition. >> Oh Yes! >> So talk about where and how it works. And what's the results? And can you share some of the impact? >> Yeah! So as part of my volunteer work, one of the projects that I have been working, is called a child finder service. And the idea of this work is, if we have an image, particularly an image of a child who have been missing, can we use facial recognition to determine whether another image is the same child. And this is actually a pretty challenging problem because the child may have gone missing many years back and now we want to match against another picture where the child may show much growth. >> Depending on the duration, right? >> And you know, if you imagine the impact of actually having this technology, a person who is trying to look for a missing child, if they have to go through a lot of pictures, it's actually hard to determine whether two people are the same person or not. So we're helping in that case. We're helping so that you don't have to go through so many pictures. So that we can highlight the ones that the machine thinks is actually the same person. >> Take us through how it works, in just a use case, just as an illustration. >> Yeah, So when a child goes missing, the National Center for Missing Children, which we work with, they publish a poster and that poster has an image of a missing child. Now once you have that image, you may want to say well are there places where the picture of that child may be showing up. One place that there's usually pictures of children being exploited are online ads. So let's say that there's online ads and you want to say, well in any of these ads that they use for exploitation, could there be the same child in both of them. So that's actually a use case. And just using face recognition technology, we can try to make the problem easier, faster than it would be if you were trying to do it manually. >> And you're doing a demo here in the Intel AI Lounge. What's in the demo? What are you showing? >> So in the demo, I'm showing how difficult it really is to do face recognition by hand. And how by just having some assistance from a machine, you can go from having to look at hundreds of images and spending potentially hours, to doing it seconds. >> So how to do you involved? I mean, this is a volunteer organization, take us through your journey. How did you get involved? And talk about how you guys are getting more people involved, and how can someone get involved? >> Absolutely! So, you know as for Microsoft, there is the Hack for Good community, and they encourage us to go and donate our time, our skill to non-profits. Two years ago, I had this idea, and I did a hackathon. And after the hackathon, I got connected with Thorn. I learn about what they do, and that's how I pretty much got involved. I was really fortunate that Microsoft supported me to actually go spend time with a non-profit. And when I start working with Thorn, I realized, hey there's other tech companies also willing to help. So in this child finder service project, I work with Intel, I work with other companies all coming together to find ways to solve this problem using the cutting edge technology available. And you know, Thorn is always looking for volunteers, we're looking for what we call our Tech Defenders. If you go to our website, which is wearethorn.org/Sxsw, you'll find the link where you can actually volunteer your skills as a technical defender for Thorn. >> So talk about, that's very cool by the way. People should check out Thorn. Is there a website, Thorn? >> Yeah, it's wearethorn.org/sxsw. >> Okay, wearethorn.org/sxsw. For South by Southwest. So talk about the technology, because obviously Intel makes chips, makes stuff go faster, you got more compute, you've got more cores, you got now, cloud technology. And you've seen at Google Next, where they were showcasing their Xeon processor, that the AI trend now is becoming really, really, really big. I know Microsoft as your Amazon web services. They're all having these machine learning libraries, and the big trend is self-learning machines or deep-learning. So this is a tech trend. But now when you apply it to this, it really can work. So, what is some of the technology, and what are some of the data sets that you use, how does it work under the covers? >> Yeah so, we actually start with an open source technology for face recognition. And after we started with this technology, we realized that we had to make it better. So we had to build data sets ourselves. For the data sets we have images of the posters that are published from the National Center. We have also started asking people to donate images over time, of themselves. Because we need images of people when they were children, and when they're older. And that's how we've been building data sets. And then having the data set, we need to go and train them. And that's where we're using hardware, in particularly using GPUs to actually do training is really is key for us. The technology really under this is deep learning for us. We used an existing deep-learning models, and improving them with our particular scenario, cause there's special challenges in our case. Not only with the age, but also a lot of the images that we process. Sometimes there's heavy makeup, sometimes there's things like that. >> Or res, resolution right? Depending on the photo? Right? >> Yeah. And you now, low resolution images particularly they're a challenge, so we need to improve it, we need to keep training to actually get to the point where we feel we have a really robust system. >> I want to ask you a personal question. And this is something we were talking about on our intro segment, and something that I've been thinking a lot about. I haven't written about it yet, but I've been starting to tease it out on some of my thought leader interviews. Is that, in every major inflection point in the business of technology, there's always been a counter-culture movement. And it seems to be that, if you look at all the news, whether it's political or tech company news, and all this stuff happening around the world, there seems to be a social good culture developing. We're seeing a counter-culture where what was once valued, tech or public proprietary algorithms, is now changing to open source, community, societal benefits. There seems to be a lot of activity, and no one's kind of put their finger on it. And you're a great use case of that example. >> And I feel like, the Hack for Good community in Microsoft is growing, and there's people, peers of mine, working on all this kind of interesting projects helping non-profits. >> And that's called Hack for Good? >> Yes. >> What's it called? >> Hack for Good in Microsoft. >> So that's a Microsoft hackathon with employees who just say, hey let's pick something good to do and they apply their programming technical skills to... >> Yeah, and you know there's a lot of support, and we're encouraged to do it. And it's to me inspiring to work in a company that really encourage that, and you know what? I see the same when I look across the industry. I see people willing to spend their evenings, like I spend my evenings working on some of this, or weekends, but we're passionate about making a difference. And I know I'm not alone. I've met a lot of people, and I know there's a lot more out there. >> Is there a community people can check out? Is it on the website? Is there open source community? Is there a certain software groups that are playing more than others? >> Actually I don't know. I know in my space, I think a I think a great place to start is joining Thorn's Digital Defenders. But I would say if someone is passionate about a cause, it could be anything, and say I want to help, there's non-profits out there for that. And when I work with non-profits, they're so passionate about it, and sometimes they just need help in little things. And having so many tech communities go in and help them makes a huge difference. I would invite people to just go. If you're passionate about it, just go for it. Find a non-profit, they'll be happy to work with you. >> Federico, I want to ask you if you could share just some anecdotal impact that you guys have had. Can you share some successes, some advances? Just highlight some of the things. >> Yeah, so Thorn just published their yearly report and it was really encouraging. So, Thorn has a couple of different tools that they build. One of them is called Spotlight. Through the use of this tool last year, about 2,000 children who were victims of trafficking, were recovered from around 6,000 victims. And you know, each victim is a person. And the fact that we're making a difference in those lives is extremely encouraging. And that's just one of the things that we were able to contribute. So that's one of the stories that we have. And to me it's not only that. To me, it's also the fact that I see people who are willing to actually get engaged, learn more about these problems is another huge win. >> Final question for you Federico. Describe the scene here at the AI Lounge at Intel. For folks watching who aren't at South by Southwest, what is the vibe here? What are they showing? Obviously AI is the theme. AI for Social Good is our broadcast here. Hashtag is #intelai, if you're interested in sharing, we'd appreciate if you could retweet and share the love. What's your thoughts on with the vibe here? Describe the scene here. >> You know, when I look around, all the demos are amazing. Like each one of them, you're blown away by it. And it just shows you how in a practical way, AI can be changing lives or doing amazing things. There's the drones there on the video. The drones, I love those, they look amazing. And then there's also the demo around using an art style and getting your picture. I'm going to get mine in a second. I think if you come by, you'll see how AI really in practice, is able to contribute to people's lives. And the vibe is awesome. And I'm loving it here. >> Well I want to say congratulations. You do amazing things. >> Thank you. >> It's really a real testament to where the society's going AI for Social Change. Microsoft has a Hackathon for Good, and this is not a one-off. I mean Microsoft certainly has had that. Google's got the 20% work on your own project. Intel has it. Companies are getting involved, a counter-culture is developing for societal benefits. And all these new things happening, like autonomous vehicles, smart cities, these are paradigm shifting society changes around the world and will require a human involvement. Congratulations, and thanks for sharing. >> Thank you very much. And we have a hashtag just for our product which is #defendhappiness. >> John: Defend happiness? >> Yeah, which is all about stopping sexual exploitation and trafficking all around the world. >> Okay, #defendhappiness. Please put it out there and share it, tweet this video. And for the betterment of society, I'm John Furrier with Federico here at the Intel AI Lounge. More coverage from South by Southwest. Three days of coverage, full day Cube today, some interviews tomorrow. Intel has some amazing super demos they're going to be showing here throughout the weekend. Stay tuned on theCUBE, we'll be covering it. We'll be right back with more, after this short break. 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