>>and hello, we're back. I've got my panel and we are doing things real time here. So sorry for the delay a few minutes late. So the way let's talk about things, the reason we're here and we're going around the room and introduce everybody. Got three special guests here. I got my evil or my john and the normal And we're going to talk about get ops I called it future office just because I want to think about what's the next thing for that at the end, we're gonna talk about what our ideas for what's next for getups, right? Um, because we're all starting to just get into get ups now. But of course a lot of us are always thinking about what's next? What's better? How can we make this thing better? So we're going to take your questions. That's the reason we're here, is to take your questions and answer them. Or at least the best we can for the next hour. And all right, so let's go around the room and introduce yourself. My name is Brett. I am streaming from Brett from that. From Brett. From Virginia Beach in Virginia beach, Virginia, United States. Um, and I talk about things on the internet, I sell courses on you, to me that talk about Docker and kubernetes Ive or introduce yourself. >>How's it going? Everyone, I'm a software engineer at axel Springer, currently based in Berlin and I happen to be Brett Brett's teaching assistant. >>All right, that's right. We're in, we're in our courses together almost every day. Mm john >>hey everyone, my name is john Harris, I used to work at Dhaka um, I now work at VM ware is a star field engineer. Um, so yeah, >>and normal >>awesome by the way, you are streaming from Brett Brett, >>I answered from breath to breath. >>Um I'm normal method. I'm a distinguished engineer with booz allen and I'm also a doctor captain and it's good to see either in person and it's good to see you again john it's been a little while. >>It has the pre covid times, right? You're up here in Seattle. >>Yeah. It feels, it feels like an eternity ago. >>Yeah, john shirt looks red and reminds me of the Austin T shirt. So I was like, yeah, so we all, we all have like this old limited edition doctor on E. >>T. That's a, that's a classic. >>Yeah, I scored that one last year. Sometimes with these old conference church, you have to like go into people's closets. I'm not saying I did that. Um, but you know, you have to go steal stuff, you to find ways to get the swag >>post post covid. If you ever come to my place, I'm going to have to lock the closets. That >>that's right, That's right. >>So the second I think it was the second floor of the doctor HQ in SAn Francisco was where they kept all the T shirts, just boxes and boxes and boxes floor to ceiling. So every time I went to HQ you just you just as many as you can fit in your luggage. I think I have about 10 of these. You >>bring an extra piece of luggage just for your your shirt shirt grab. Um All right, so I'm going to start scanning questions uh so that you don't have to you can you help you all are welcome to do that. And I'm going to start us off with the topic. Um So let's just define the parameters. Like we can talk about anything devops and here we can go down and plenty of rabbit holes. But the kind of, the goal here is to talk about get ups and get ups if you haven't heard about it is essentially uh using versioning systems like get like we've all been getting used to as developers to track your infrastructure changes, not just your code changes and then automate that with a bunch of tooling so that the robots take over. And essentially you have get as a central source of truth and then get log as a central source of history and then there's a bunch of magic little bits in the middle and then supposedly everything is wonderful. It's all automatic. The reality is is what it's often quite messy, quite tricky to get everything working. And uh the edges of this are not perfect. Um so it is a relatively new thing. It's probably three, maybe four years old as an official thing from. We've uh so we're gonna get into it and I'll let's go around the room and the same word we did before and um not to push on that, put you on the spot or anything. But what is, what is one of the things you either like or either hate about getups um that you've enjoyed either using it or you know, whatever for me. I really, I really love that I can point people to a repo that basically is hopefully if they look at the log a tracking, simplistic tracking of what might have changed in that part of the world or the environment. I remember many years past where, you know, I've had executive or some mid level manager wants to see what the changes were or someone outside my team went to see what we just changed. It was okay, they need access to this system into that dashboard and that spreadsheet and then this thing and it was always so complicated and now in a world where if we're using get up orbit bucket or whatever where you can just say, hey go look at that repo if there was three commits today, probably three changes happened. That's I love that particular part about it. Of course it's always more complicated than that. But um Ive or I know you've been getting into this stuff recently. So um any thoughts? Yeah, I think >>my favorite part about get ops is >>reproducibility. Um >>you know the ability to just test something and get it up and running >>and then just tear it down. >>Uh not >>being worried that how did I configure it the first time? I think that's my favorite part about >>it. I'm changing your background as we do this. >>I was going to say, did you just do it get ups pushed to like change his >>background, just a dialogue that different for that green screen equals false? Uh Change the background. Yeah, I mean, um and I mean I think last year was really my first year of actually using it on anything significant, like a real project. Um so I'm still, I still feel like I'm very new to john you anything. >>Yeah, it's weird getups is that thing which kind of crystallizes maybe better than anything else, the grizzled veteran life cycle of emotions with the technology because I think it's easy to get super excited about something new. And when I first looked into get up, so I think this is even before it was probably called getups, we were looking at like how to use guest source of truth, like everything sounds great, right? You're like, wait, get everyone knows, get gets the source of truth, There's a load of robust tooling. This just makes a sense. If everything dies, we can just apply the get again, that would be great. Um and then you go through like the trough of despair, right? We're like, oh no, none of this works. The application is super stateless if this doesn't work and what do we do with secrets and how do we do this? Like how do we get people access in the right place and then you realize everything is terrible again and then everything it equalizes and you're kind of, I think, you know, it sounds great on paper and they were absolutely fantastic things about it, but I think just having that measured approach to it, like it's, you know, I think when you put it best in the beginning where you do a and then there's a magic and then you get C. Right, like it's the magic, which is >>the magic is the mystery, >>right? >>Magic can be good and bad and in text so >>very much so yeah, so um concurrence with with john and ever uh in terms of what I like about it is the potential to apply it to moving security to left and getting closer to a more stable infrastructures code with respect to the whole entire environment. Um And uh and that reconciliation loop, it reminds me of what, what is old is new again? Right? Well, quote unquote old um in terms of like chef and puppet and that the reconciliation loop applied in a in a more uh in a cleaner interface and and into the infrastructure that we're kind of used to already, once you start really digging into kubernetes what I don't like and just this is in concurrence with the other Panelist is it's relatively new. It has um, so it has a learning curve and it's still being, you know, it's a very active um environment and community and that means that things are changing and constantly and there's like new ways and new patterns as people are exploring how to use it. And I think that trough of despair is typically figuring out incrementally what it actually is doing for you and what it's not going to solve for you, right, john, so like that's that trough of despair for a bit and then you realize, okay, this is where it fits potentially in my architecture and like anything, you have to make that trade off and you have to make that decision and accept the trade offs for that. But I think it has a lot of promise for, for compliance and security and all that good stuff. >>Yeah. It's like it's like the potentials, there's still a lot more potential than there is uh reality right now. I think it's like I feel like we're very early days and the idea of especially when you start getting into tooling that doesn't appreciate getups like you're using to get up to and use something else and that tool has no awareness of the concept so it doesn't flow well with all of the things you're trying to do and get um uh things that aren't state based and all that. So this is going to lead me to our first question from Camden asking dumb questions by the way. No dumb questions here. Um How is get apps? Not just another name for C. D. Anybody want to take that as an answer as a question. How is get up is not just another name for C. D. I have things but we can talk about it. I >>feel like we need victor foster kids. Yeah, sure you would have opinions. Yeah, >>I think it's a very yeah. One person replied said it's a very specific it's an opinionated version of cd. That's a great that's a great answer like that. Yeah. >>It's like an implement. Its it's an implementation of deployment if you want it if you want to use it for that. All right. I realize now it's kind of hard in terms of a physical panel and a virtual panel to figure out who on the panel is gonna, you know, ready to jump in to answer a question. But I'll take it. So um I'll um I'll do my best inner victor and say, you know, it's it's an implementation of C. D. And it's it's a choice right? It's one can just still do docker build and darker pushes and doctor pulls and that's fine. Or use other technologies to deploy containers and pods and change your, your kubernetes infrastructure. But get apps is a different implementation, a different method of doing that same thing at the end of the day. Yeah, >>I like it. I like >>it and I think that goes back to your point about, you know, it's kind of early days still, I think to me what I like about getups in that respect is it's nice to see kubernetes become a platform where people are experimenting with different ways of doing things, right? And so I think that encourages like lots of different patterns and overall that's going to be a good thing for the community because then more, you know, and not everything needs to settle in terms of only one way of doing things, but a lot of different ways of doing things helps people fit, you know, the tooling to their needs, or helps fit kubernetes to their needs, etcetera. Yeah, >>um I agree with that, the, so I'm gonna, since we're getting a load of good questions, so um one of the, one of the, one of the, I want to add to that real quick that one of the uh from the, we've people themselves, because I've had some on the show and one of things that I look at it is distinguishing is with continuous deployment tools, I sort of think that it's almost like previous generation and uh continuous deployment tools can be anything like we would consider Jenkins cd, right, if you if you had an association to a server and do a doctor pull and you know, dr up or dr composed up rather, or if it did a cube control apply uh from you know inside an ssh tunnel or something like that was considered considered C. D. Well get ops is much more rigid I think in terms of um you you need to apply, you have a specific repo that's all about your deployments and because of what tool you're using and that one your commit to a specific repo or in a specific branch that repo depends on how you're setting it up. That is what kicks off a workflow. And then secondly there's an understanding of state. So a lot of these tools now I have uh reconciliation where they they look at the cluster and if things are changing they will actually go back and to get and the robots will take over and will commit that. Hey this thing has changed um and you maybe you human didn't change it, something else might have changed it. So I think that's where getups is approaching it, is that ah we we need to we need to consider more than just a couple of commands that be runnin in a script. Like there needs to be more than that for a getups repo to happen anyway, that's just kind of the the take back to take away I took from a previous conversation with some people um >>we've I don't think that lost, its the last piece is really important, right? I think like for me, C d like Ci cd, they're more philosophical ideas, write a set of principles, right? Like getting an idea or a code change to environments promoting it. It's very kind of pipeline driven um and it's very imperative driven, right? Like our existing CD tools are a lot of the ways that people think about Cd, it would be triggered by an event, maybe a code push and then these other things are happening in sequence until they either fail or pass, right? And then we're done. Getups is very much sitting on the, you know, the reconciliation side, it's changing to a pull based model of reconciliation, right? Like it's very declarative, it's just looking at the state and it's automatically pulling changes when they happen, rather than this imperative trigger driven model. That's not to say that there aren't city tools which we're doing pull based or you can do pull based or get ups is doing anything creatively revolutionary here, but I think that's one of the main things that the ideas that are being introduced into those, like existing C kind of tools and pipelines, um certainly the pull based model and the reconciliation model, which, you know, has a lot in common with kubernetes and how those kind of controllers work, but I think that's the key idea. Yeah. >>Um This is a pretty specific one Tory asks, does anyone have opinions about get ops in a mono repo this is like this is getting into religion a little bit. How many repos are too many repose? How um any thoughts on that? Anyone before I rant, >>go >>for it, go for it? >>Yeah. How I'm using it right now in a monitor repo uh So I'm using GIT hub. Right, so you have what? The workflow and then inside a workflow? Yeah, mo file, I'll >>track the >>actual changes to the workflow itself, as well as a folder, which is basically some sort of service in Amman Arepa, so if any of those things changes, it'll trigger the actual pipeline to run. So that's like the simplest thing that I could figure out how to, you know, get it set up using um get hubs, uh workflow path future. Yeah. And it's worked for me for writing, you know? That's Yeah. >>Yeah, the a lot of these things too, like the mono repo discussion will, it's very tool specific. Each tool has various levels of support for branch branching and different repos and subdirectories are are looking at the defense and to see if there's changes in that specific directory. Yeah. Sorry, um john you're going to say something, >>I was just going to say, I've never really done it, but I imagine the same kind of downsides of mono repo to multiple report would exist there. I mean, you've got the blast radius issues, you've got, you know, how big is the mono repo? Do we have to pull does the tool have to pull that or cashier every time it needs to determine def so what is the support for being able to just look at directories versus you know, I think we can get way down into a deeper conversation. Maybe we'll save it for later on in the conversation about what we're doing. Get up, how do we structure our get reposed? We have super granular repo per environment, Perper out reaper, per cluster repo per whatever or do we have directories per environment or branches per environment? How how is everything organized? I think it's you know, it's going to be one of those, there's never one size fits all. I'll give the class of consultant like it depends answer. Right? >>Yeah, for sure. It's very similar to the code struggle because it depends. >>Right? >>Uh Yeah, it's similar to the to the code problem of teams trying to figure out how many repose for their code. Should they micro service, should they? Semi micro service, macro service. Like I mean, you know because too many repose means you're doing a bunch of repo management, a bunch of changes on your local system, you're constantly get pulling all these different things and uh but if you have one big repo then it's it's a it's a huge monolithic thing that you usually have to deal with. Path based issues of tools that only need to look at a specific directory and um yeah, it's a it's a culture, I feel like yeah, like I keep going back to this, it's a culture thing. Does your what is your team prefer? What do you like? What um what's painful for everyone and who's what's the loudest pain that you need to deal with? Is it is it repo management? That's the pain um or is it uh you know, is that that everyone's in one place and it's really hard to keep too many cooks out of the kitchen, which is a mono repo problem, you know? Um How do we handle security? So this is a great one from Tory again. Another great question back to back. And that's the first time we've done that um security as it pertains to get up to anyone who can commit can change the infrastructure. Yes. >>Yes. So the tooling that you have for your GIT repo and the authentication, authorization and permissions that you apply to the GIT repo using a get server like GIT hub or get lab or whatever your flavor of the day is is going to be how security is handled with respect to changes in your get ups configuration repository. So um that is completely specific to your implementation of that or ones implementation of of how they're handling that. Get repositories that the get ups tooling is looking at. To reconcile changes with respect to the permissions of the for lack of better term robot itself. Right? They get up tooling like flux or Argosy. D Um one kid would would create a user or a service account or uh other kind of authentication measures to limit the permissions for that service account that the Gaddafi's tooling needs to be able to read the repose and and send commits etcetera. So that is well within the realm of what you have already for your for your get your get um repo. Yeah. >>Yeah. A related question is from a g what they like about get apps if done nicely for a newbie it's you can get stuff done easily if you what they dislike about it is when you have too many get repose it becomes just too complicated and I agree. Um was making a joke with a team the other week that you know the developer used to just make one commit and they would pass pass it on to a QA team that would then eventually emerging in the master. But they made the commits to these feature branches or whatever. But now they make a commit, they make a pR there for their code then they go make a PR in the helm chart to update the thing to do that and then they go make a PR in the get ups repeal for Argo. And so we talked about that they're probably like four or five P. R. Is just to get their code in the production. But we were talking about the negative of that but the reality was It's just five or 4 or five prs like it wasn't five different systems that had five different methodologies and tooling and that. So I looked at it I was like well yeah that's kind of a pain in the get sense but you're also dealing with one type. It's a repetitive action but it's it's the one thing I don't have to go to five different systems with five different ways of doing it. And once in the web and one's on the client wants a command line that I don't remember. Um Yeah so it's got pros and cons I think when you >>I think when you get to the scale where those kind of issues are a problem then you're probably at the scale where you can afford to invest some time into automation into that. Right? Like what I've when I've seen this in larger customers or larger organizations if there ever at that stage where okay apps are coming up all the time. You know, there's a 10 X 100 X developer to operations folks who may be creating get repose setting up permissions then that stuff gets automated, right? Like, you know, maybe ticket based systems or whatever. Developers say I need a new app. It templates things or more often using the same model, right of reconciliation and operators and the horrific abuse of cogs that we're seeing in the communities community right now. Um You know, developers can create a crd which just says, hey, I'm creating a new app is called app A and then a controller will pick up that app a definition. It will go create a get a repo Programmatically it will add the right definitely will look up and held up the developers and the permissions that need to be able to get to that repo it will create and template automatically some name space and the clusters that it needs in the environments that it needs, depending on, you know, some metadata it might read. So I think, you know, those are definite problems and they're definitely like a teething, growing pain thing. But once you get to that scale, you kind of need to step back and say, well look, we just need to invest in time into the operational aspect of this and automating this pain away, I think. Yeah, >>yeah. And that ultimately ends in Yeah. Custom tooling, which it's hard to avoid it at scale. I mean, there's there's two, there's almost two conversations here, right. There is what I call the Solo admin Solo devops, I bought that domain Solo devops dot com because, you know, whenever I'm talking to dr khan in the real world, it's like I asked people to raise hands, I don't know how we can raise hands here, but I would ask people to raise hands and see how many of you here are. The sole person responsible for deploying the app that your team makes and like a quarter of the room would raise their hand. So I call that solo devops like those, that person can't make all the custom tooling in the world. So they really need dr like solutions where it's opinionated, the workflow is sort of built in and they don't have to wrangle things together with a bunch of glue, you know, in other words bash. Um and so this kind of comes to a conversation uh starting this question from lee he's asking how do you combine get ops with ci cd, especially the continuous bit. How do you avoid having a human uh sort of the complaint the team I was working with has, how do you avoid a human editing and get committing for every single deploy? They've settled on customized templates and a script for routine updates. So as a seed for this conference, this question I'm gonna ask you all uh instead of that specific question cause it's a little open ended. Um Tell me whether you agree with this. I I kind of look at the image, the image artifact because the doctor image or container image in general is an artifact that I I view it that way and that thing going into the registry with the right label or right part of the label. Um That tag rather not the label but the tag that to me is like one of the great demarche points of, we're kind of done with Ci and we're now into the deployment phase and it doesn't necessarily mean the tooling is a clear cut there, but that artifact being shipped in a specific way or promoted as we sometimes say. Um what do you think? Does anyone have opinions on that? I don't even know if that's the right opinion to have so mhm. >>So um I think what you're, what you're getting at is that get ups, models can trigger off of different events um to trigger the reconciliation loop. And one way to do that is if the image, if it notices a image change in the registry, the other is if there's a commit event on a specific rebo and branch and it's up to, you are up to the person that's implementing their get ups model, what event to trigger there, that reconciliation loop off of, You can do both, you can do one or the other. It also depends on the Templeton engine that you're using on top of um on top of kubernetes, such as helm or um you know, the other ones that are out there or if you're not even doing that, then, you know straight. Yeah, mo um so it kind of just depends, but those are the typically the two options one has and a combination of of those to trigger that event. You can also just trigger it manually, right? You can go into the command line and force a a, you know, a really like a scan or a new reconciliation loop to occur. So it kind of just, I don't want to say this, but it depends on what you're trying to do and what makes sense in your pipeline. Right? So if you're if you're set up where you are tag, if you're doing it based off of image tags, then you probably want to use get ups in a way that you're using the image tags. Right. And the pattern that you've established there, if you're not really doing that and you're more around, like, different branches are mapped to different environments, then triggered off of the correct branch. And that's where the permissions also come into play. Where if you don't want someone to touch production and you've got your getups for your production cluster based off of like uh you know, a main branch, then whoever can push a change to that main branch has the authority to push that change to production. Right? So that's your authentication and permissions um system same for the registry itself. Right. So >>Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, anyone else have any thoughts on that? I was about to go to the next topic, >>I was going to say. I think certain tools dictate the approach, like, if you're using Argosy d it's I think I'm correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only way to use it right now is just through image modification. Like, the manifest changes, it looks at a specific directory and anything changes then it will do its thing. And uh Synchronize the cost there with whatever's and get >>Yeah, flux has both. Yeah, and flux has both. So it it kind of depends. I think you can make our go do that too, but uh this is back to what we were saying in the beginning, uh you know, these things are changing, right? So that might be what it is right now in terms of triggering the reconciliation loops and get ups, tooling, but there might be other events in the future that might trigger it, and it's not completely stand alone because you still need you're tooling to do any kind of testing or whatever you have in terms of like the specific pipeline. So oftentimes you're bolting in getups into some other part of broader Cfd solution. That makes sense. Yeah, >>we've got a lot of questions about secrets or people that are asking about secrets. >>So my my tongue and cheek answered the secrets question was, what's the best practices for kubernetes? Secrets? That's the same thing for secrets with good apps? Uh getups is not last time I checked and last time I was running this stuff get ups is not has nothing to do with secrets in that sense. It's just there to get your stuff running on communities. So, um there's probably a really good session on secrets at dr concept. I >>would agree with you, I agree with you. Yeah, I mean, get off stools, I mean every every project of mine handles secrets differently. Uh huh. And I think I'm not sure if it was even when I was talking to but talking to someone recently that I'm very bullish on get up actions, I love get up actions, it's not great for deployments yet, but we do have this new thing and get hub environments, I think it's called. So it allows me at least the store secrets per environment, which it didn't have the concept of that before, which you know, if you if any of you running kubernetes out there, you typically end up when you start running kubernetes, you end up with more than one kubernetes, like you're going to end up with a lot of clusters at some point, at least many multiple, more than two. Um and so if you're trying to store secret somewhere, you do have and there's a discussion happening in chat right now where people are talking about um sealed secrets which if you haven't heard of that, go look that up and just be versed on what sealed secrets is because it's a it's a fantastic concept for how to store secrets in the public. Um I love it because I'm a big P. K. I nerd but um it's not the only way and it doesn't fit all models. So I have clients that use A W. S. Secrets because they're in A W. S. And then they just have to use the kubernetes external secret. But again like like like normal sand, you know, it's that doesn't really affect get ops, get ops is just applying whatever helm charts or jahmal or images that you're, you're you're deploying, get off. It was more about the approach of when the changes happen and whether it's a push or pull model like we're talking about and you know, >>I would say there's a bunch of prerequisites to get ups secrets being one of them because the risk of you putting a secret into your git repo if you haven't figured out your community secrets architecture and start diving into getups is high and removing secrets from get repose is you know, could be its own industry, right. It's >>a thing, >>how do >>I hide this? How do I obscure this commit that's already now on a dozen machines. >>So there are some prerequisites in terms of when you're ready to adopt get up. So I think is the right way of saying the answer to that secrets being one of them. >>I think the secrets was the thing that made me, you know, like two or three years ago made me kind of see the ah ha moment when it came to get ups which, which was that the premier thing that everyone used to say about get up about why it was great. Was its the single source of truth. There's no state anywhere else. You just need to look at git. Um and then secrets may be realized along with a bunch of other things down the line that is not true and will never be true. So as soon as you can lose the dogmatism about everything is going to be and get it's fantastic. As long as you've understood everything is not going to get. There are things which will absolutely never be and get some tools just don't deal with that. They need to earn their own state, especially in communities, some controls on their own state. You know, cuz sealed secrets and and other projects like SOps and I think there are two or three others. That's a great way of dealing with secrets if you want to keep them in get. But you know, projects like vault more kind of like what I would say, production grade secret strategies. Right? And if you're in AWS or a cloud, you're more likely to be using their secrets. Your secret policy is maybe not dictated by you in large organizations might be dictated by CSO or security or Great. Like I think once if you, if you're trying to adopt getups or you're thinking about it, get the dogmatism of get as a single point of truth out of your mind and think about getups more as a philosophy and a set of best practice principles, then you will be in much better stead, >>right? Yeah. >>People are asking more questions in chat like infrastructure as code plus C d essentially get ups or C I rather, um, these are all great questions and a part of the debate, I'm actually just going to throw up on screen. I'm gonna put this in chat, but this is, this is to me the source, Right? So we worked with when they coined the term. We, a lot of us have been trying to get, if we talk about the history for a minute and then tell me if I'm getting this right. Um, a lot of us were trying to automate all these different parts of the puzzle, but a lot of them, they, some things might have been infrastructure as code. Some things weren't, some things were sort of like settings is coded, like you're going to Jenkins and type in secrets and settings or type in a certain thing in the settings of Jenkins and then that it wasn't really in get and so what we was trying to go for was a way to have almost like eventually a two way state understanding where get might change your infrastructure but then your infrastructure might also change and needs to be reflected in the get if the get is trying to be the single source of truth. Um and like you're saying the reality is that you're never gonna have one repo that has all of your infrastructure in it, like you would have to have, you have to have all your terra form, anything else you're spinning up. Right. Um but anyway, I'm gonna put this link in chat. So this guide actually, uh one of things they talk about is what it's not, so it's, it's kind of great to read through the different requirements and like what I was saying well ago um mhm. Having having ci having infrastructure as code and then trying a little bit of continuous deployment out, it's probably a prerequisite. Forget ops so it's hard to just jump into that when you don't already have infrastructure as code because a machine doing stuff on your behalf, it means that you have to have things documented and somewhere and get repo but let me put this in the in the >>chitty chat, I would like to know if the other panelists agree, but I think get apps is a okay. I would say it's a moderate level, it's not a beginner level communities thing, it's like a moderate level advanced, a little bit more advanced level. Um One can start off using it but you definitely have to have some pre recs in place or some understanding of like a pattern in place. Um So what do the other folks think about that opinion? >>I think if you're if you're trying to use get out before, you know what problem you have, you're probably gonna be in trouble. Right. It's like having a solution to it probably don't have yet. Mhm. Right. I mean if if you're just evil or and you're just typing, keep control apply, you're one person right, Get off. It doesn't seem like a big a big jump, like, I mean it doesn't like why would I do that? I'm just, I'm just gonna inside, it's the type of get commit right, I'm typing Q control apply. But I think one of the rules from we've is none of your developers and none of your admins can have cute control access to the cluster because if you can't, if you do have access and you can just apply something, then that's just infrastructure as code. That's just continuous deployment, that's, that's not really get ops um, getups implies that the only way things get into the cluster is through the get up, get automation that you're using with, you know, flux Argo, we haven't talked about, what's the other one that Victor Farsi talks about, by the way people are asking about victor, because victor would love to talk about this stuff, but he's in my next life, so come back in an hour and a half or whatever and victor is going to be talking about sys, admin list with me. Um >>you gotta ask him nothing but get up questions in the next, >>confuse them, confuse them. But anyway, that, that, that's um, it's hard, it's hard to understand and without having tried it, I think conceptually it's a little challenging >>one thing with getups, especially based off the we've works blog post that you just put up on there. It's an opinionated way of doing something. Uh you know, it's an opinionated way of of delivering changes to an environment to your kubernetes environment. So it's opinionated were often not used to seeing things that are very opinionated in this sense, in the in the ecosystem, but get apps is a opinionated thing. It's it's one way of doing it. Um there are ways to change it and like there are options um like what we were talking about in terms of the events that trigger, but the way that it's structured is an opinion opinionated way both from like a tooling perspective, like using get etcetera, but also from a devops cultural perspective, right? Like you were talking about not having anyone access cube control and changing the cluster directly. That's a philosophical opinion that get ups forces you to adopt otherwise. It kind of breaks the model and um I just I want everyone to just understand that. That is very opinion, anything in that sense. Yeah, >>polygamy is another thing. Infrastructure as code. Um someone's mentioning plummy and chat, I just had actually my life show self plug bread that live go there. I'm on Youtube every week. I did the same thing. These these are my friends um and had palami on two weeks ago uh last week, remember uh and it was in the last couple of weeks and we talked about their infrastructure as code solution. Were actually writing code instead of um oh that's an interesting take on uh developer team sort of owning coding the infrastructure through code rather than Yamil as a data language. I don't really have an opinion on it yet because I haven't used it in production or anything in the real real world, but um, I'm not sure how much they are applying trying to go towards the get up stuff. I will do a plug for Solomon hikes. Who has a, the beginning of the day, it's already happened so you can go back and watch it. It's a, it's a, what's it called? Q. Rethinking application delivery with Q. And build kit. So go look this up. This is the found co founder of Dr and former CTO Solomon hikes at the beginning of the day. He has a tool called dagger. I'm not sure why the title of the talk is delivering with Q. And built it, but the tool is showing off in there for an hour is called dagger. And it's, it's an interesting idea on how to apply a lot of this opinionated automated stuff to uh, to deployment and it's get off space and you use Q language. It's a graph language. I watched most of it and it was a really interesting take. I'm excited to see if that takes off and if they try that because it's another way that you can get a little bit more advanced with your you're get deployments and without having to just stick everything in Yemen, which is kind of what we're in today with helm charts and what not. All right. More questions about secrets, I think. I think we're not going to have a whole lot of more, a lot more about secrets basically. Uh put secrets in your cluster to start with and kubernetes in encrypted, you know, thing. And then, you know, as it gets harder, then you have to find another solution when you have five clusters, you don't wanna have to do it five times. That's when you have to go for Walton A W. S secrets and all >>that. Right? I'm gonna post it note. Yeah. Crm into the cluster. Just kidding. >>Yes, there are recordings of this. Yes, they will be later. Uh, because we're that these are all gonna be on youtube later. Um, yeah, detects secrets cushion saying detect secrets or get Guardian are absolute requirements. I think it's in reference to your secrets comment earlier. Um, Camels asking about Cuban is dropping support for Docker that this is not the place to ask for that, but it, it is uh, basically it's a Nonevent Marantz has actually just created that same plug in available in a different repos. So if you want to keep using Docker and kubernetes, you know, you can do it like it's no big deal. Most of us aren't using doctor in our communities anyway, so we're using like container D or whatever is provided to us by our provider. Um yeah, thank you so much for all these comments. These are great people helping each other and chat. I feel like we're just here to make sure the chats available so people can help each other. >>I feel like I want to pick up on something when you mentioned pollux me, I think there's a um we're talking about getups but I think in the original like the origination of that I guess was deploying applications to clusters right, picking up deployment manifest. But I think with the gloomy and I obviously terra form and things have been around a long time, folks are starting to apply this I think I found one earlier which was like um kub stack the Terror Forms get ups framework. Um but also with the advent of things like cluster A. P. I. Um in the Cuban at the space where you can declare actively build the infrastructure for your clusters and build the cluster right? We're not just talking about deploying applications, the cluster A. P. I will talk to a W. S. Spin up, VPc spin up machines, you know, we'll do the same kind of things that terra form does and and those other tools do I think applying getups principles to the infrastructure spin up right, the proper infrastructure as code stuff, constantly applying Terror form um you know, plans and whatever, constantly applying cluster Api resources spinning up stuff in those clouds. That's a super interesting. Um you know, extension of this area, I'd be curious to see if what the folks think about that. >>Yeah, that's why I picked this topic is one of my three. Uh I got I got to pick the topics. I was like the three things that there like the most bleeding edge exciting. Most people haven't, we haven't basically we haven't figured all this out yet. We as an industry, so um it's I think we're gonna see more ideas on it. Um what's the one with the popsicle as the as the icon victor talks about all the time? It's not it's another getups like tool, but it's um it's getups for you use this kubernetes limit and then we have to look it up, >>You're talking about cross plane. >>So >>my >>wife is over here with the sound effects and the first sound effect of the day that she chooses to use is one. >>All right, can we pick it? Let's let's find another question bret >>I'm searching >>so many of them. All right, so uh I think one really quick one is getups only for kubernetes, I think the main to tooling to tools that we're talking about, our Argosy D and flux and they're mostly geared toward kubernetes deployments but there's a, it seems like they're organized in a way that there's a clean abstraction in with respect to the agent that's doing the deployment and the tooling that that can interact with. So I would imagine that in the future and this might be true already right now that get ups could be applied to other types of deployments at some point in the future. But right now it's mostly focused and treats kubernetes as a first class citizen or the tooling on top of kubernetes, let's say something like how as a first class citizen? Yeah, to Brett, >>to me the field, back to you bret the thing I was looking for is cross plane. So that's another tool. Um Victor has been uh sharing a lot about it in Youtube cross plane and that is basically runs inside a kubernetes, but it handles your other infrastructure besides your app. It allows you to like get ops, you're a W. S stuff by using the kubernetes state engine as a, as a way to manage that. And I have not used it yet, but he does some really great demos on Youtube. So people are liking this idea of get off, so they're trying to figure out how do we, how do we manage state? How do we uh because the probably terra form is that, well, there's many problems, but it's always a lot of problems, but in the get outs world it's not quite the right fit yet, It might be, but you still, it's still largely as expected for people to, you know, like type the command, um, and it keeps state locally the ss, clouds and all that. And but the other thing is I'm I'm now realizing that when I saw the demo from Solomon, I'm going back to the Solomon hikes thing. He was using the demo and he was showing it apply deploying something on S three buckets, employing internet wifi and deploying it on google other things beyond kubernetes and saying that it's all getups approach. So I think we're just at the very beginning of seeing because it all started with kubernetes and now there's a swarm one, you can look up swarm, get office and there's a swarm, I can't take the name of it. Swarm sink I think is what's called swarm sink on git hub, which allows you to do swarm based getups like things. And now we're seeing these other tools coming out. They're saying we're going to try to do the get ups concepts, but not for kubernetes specifically and that's I think, you know, infrastructure as code started with certain areas of the world and then now then now we all just assume that you're going to have an infrastructure as code way of doing whatever that is and I think get off is going to have that same approach where pretty soon, you know, we'll have get apps for all the clouds stuff and it won't just be flexor Argo. And then that's the weird thing is will flex and Argo support all those things or will it just be focused on kubernetes apps? You know, community stuff? >>There's also, I think this is what you're alluding to. There is a trend of using um kubernetes and see rDS to provision and control things that are outside of communities like the cloud service providers services as if they were first class entities within kubernetes so that you can use the kubernetes um focus tooling for things that are not communities through the kubernetes interface communities. Yeah, >>yeah, even criticism. >>Yeah, yeah, I'm just going to say that sounds like cross plane. >>Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think that's that's uh there were, you know, for the last couple of years, it's been flux and are going back and forth. Um they're like frenemies, you know, and they've been going back and forth with iterating on these ideas of how do we manage this complicated thing? That is many kubernetes clusters? Um because like Argo, I don't know if the flux V two can do this, but Argo can manage multiple clusters now from one cluster, so your, you can manage other clusters, technically external things from a single entity. Um Originally flux couldn't do that, but I'm going to say that V two can, I don't actually >>know. Um I think all that is gonna, I think that's going to consolidate in the future. All right. In terms of like the common feature set, what Iver and john what do you think? >>I mean, I think it's already begun, right, I think haven't, didn't they collaborate on a common engine? I don't know whether it's finished yet, but I think they're working towards a common getups engine and then they're just going to layer on features on top. But I think, I mean, I think that's interesting, right, because where it runs and where it interacts with, if we're talking about a pull based model, it shouldn't, it's decentralized to a certain extent, right? We need get and we need the agent which is pulling if we're saying there's something else which is orchestrating something that we start to like fuzzy the model even right. Like is this state living somewhere else, then I think that's just interesting as well. I thought flux was completely decentralized, but I know you install our go somewhere like the cargo has a server as well, but it's been a while since I've looked in depth at them. But I think the, you know, does that muddy the agent only pull model? >>I'm reading a >>Yeah, I would say that there's like a process of natural selection going on as as the C. N. C. F. Landscape evolves and grows bigger and a lot of divide and conquer right now. But I think as certain things kind of get more prominent >>and popular, I think >>it starts to trend and it inspires other things and then it starts to aggregate and you know, kind of get back into like a unified kind of like core. Maybe like for instance, cross plane, I feel like it shouldn't even really exist. It should be, it like it's a communities add on, but it should be built in, it should be built into kubernetes, like why doesn't this exist already >>for like controlling a cloud? >>Yeah, like just, you know, having this interface with the cloud provider and be able to Yeah, >>exactly. Yeah, and it kinda, you're right. That kinda happens because you do, I mean when you start talking about storage providers and networking providers was very specific implementations of operators or just individual controllers that do operate and control other resources in the cloud, but certainly not universally right. Not every feature of AWS is available to kubernetes out of the box. Um and you know, it, one of the challenges across plane is you gotta have kubernetes before you can deploy kubernetes. Like there's a chicken and egg issue there where if you're going to use, if you're going to use our cross plane for your other infrastructure, but it's gotta, but it has to run on kubernetes who creates that first kubernetes in order for you to put that on there. And victor talks about one of his videos, the same problem with flux and Argo where like Argo, you can't deploy Argo itself with getups. There has to be that initial, I did a thing with, I'm a human and I typed in some commands on a server and things happened but they don't really have an easy deployment method for getting our go up and running using simply nothing but a get push to an existing system. There's something like that. So it's a it's an interesting problem of day one infrastructure which is again only day one, I think data is way more interesting and hard, but um how can we spend these things up if they're all depending on each other and who is the first one to get started? >>I mean it's true of everything though, I mean at the end of that you need some kind of big bang kind of function too, you know, I started running start everything I >>think without going over that, sorry, without going off on a tangent. I was, I was gonna say there's a, if folks have heard of kind which is kubernetes and Docker, which is a mini kubernetes cluster, you can run in a Docker container or each container will run as a as a node. Um you know, that's been a really good way to spin up things like clusters. KPI because they boot strap a local kind, install the manifests, it will go and spin up a fully sized cluster, it will transfer its resources over there and then it will die itself. Right? So that, that's kind of bootstrapping itself. And I think a couple of folks in the community, Jason to Tiberius, I think he works for Quinyx metal um has, has experimented with like an even more minimal just Api server, so we're really just leveraging the kubernetes ideas of like a reconciliation loop and a controller. We just need something to bootstrap with those C R D s and get something going and then go away again. So I think that's gonna be a pattern that comes up kind of more and more >>Yeah, for sure. Um, and uh, the next, next quick answer to the question, Angel asked what your thoughts on getups being a niche to get or versus others vcs tools? Well, if I knew anyone who is using anything other than get, I would say no, you know, get ops is a horrible name. It should just be CVS office, but that doesn't or vcs ops or whatever like that, but that doesn't roll off the tongue. So someone had to come up with the get ups phrase. Um but absolutely, it's all about version control solutions used for infrastructure, not code. Um might get doctor asks a great question, we're not gonna have time for it, but maybe people can reply and chat with what they think but about infrastructure and code, the lines being blurred and that do develop, how much of infrastructure does developer do developers need to know? Essentially, they're having to know all the things. Um so unfortunately we've had way more questions like every panel here today with all the great community, we've got way more questions we can handle in this time. So we're gonna have to wrap it up and say goodbye. Go to the next live panel. I believe the next one is um on developer, developer specific setups that's gonna be peter running that panel. Something about development in containers and I'm sure it's gonna be great. Just like this one. So let's go around the room where can people find you on the internet? I'm at Brett fisher on twitter. That's where you can usually find me most days you are? >>Yeah, I'm on twitter to um, I'll put it in the chat. It's kind of confusing because the TSR seven. >>Okay. Yeah, that's right. You can't just say it. You can also look at the blow of the video and like our faces are there and if you click on them, it tells you our twitter in Arlington and stuff, john >>John Harris 85, pretty much everywhere. Get hub Twitter slack, etc. >>Yeah >>and normal, normal faults or just, you know, living on Youtube live with Brett. >>Yeah, we're all on the twitter so go check us out there and thank you so much for joining. Uh thank you so much to you all for being here. I really appreciate you taking time in your busy schedule to join me for a little chit chat. Um Yes, all the, all the cheers, yes. >>And I think this kid apps loop has been declarative lee reconciled. >>Yeah, there we go. And with that ladies and gentlemen, uh bid you would do, we will see you in the next, next round coming up next with Peter >>bye.

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube covering Splunk dot com. 19. Brought to you by spunk. >>Welcome back to the Cube, everyone. I'm John Ferrier with an angle on the Cube here in Las Vegas for Splunk dot com. 19. It's there 10 years of their customer main event. All the top customers and partners were here and, of course, accuse. Been covering dot com for seven years at a great guests from a censure. Mike Heinlein. Ecosystem Adventures. Global Analytics Plays and offerings lead a century Now. First of all, welcome to the Q. Thank you, John says. You're always has >>long titles. It's a very long title. Your lead. That's a mouthful. Offerings. Yeah, this >>meanings to these titles of the century. This, like >>Esso, I'm part of the Ecosystem Adventures Group, which helps to incubate our various different channel partners. And Dr Service is with those partners and then within the splint partnership. I'm focused on driving analytics offerings with various different practices that are already considering analytics and taking those >>to market. So you guys have a relation with spunk is evolving pretty quickly. >>It is >>what's the future look like? What's the current path >>Well, as you may be aware, we recently renewed our partnership with Bronco back in February. After two and 1/2 years, we had achieved most of our goals. And where we were starting to see is that where our initial objective was to help our clients to get Maur costs takeout and risk associated with their I T and Security operations way also learned a few things along the way, which is the Splunk Analyze politics engine can also be used outside of I t and Security and we can start to take it into industry verticals. And so one of the exciting things that we're doing is we brought our digital practice into the tent with us. We renewed in February, way have a couple of years. We're looking into the future, and we're gonna not only double down in i t and Security, but we're also going to start to build business analytics and io ti type solutions on top of within the vertical industries that were focused on one >>of those industries. Can you share them? >>Yeah. Yeah, so? So it would be things like energy utilities where power line analytics to reduce the amount of vegetation that might take out power lines cause fires cause outages. Patient flow, which would be how to help accelerate getting patients through the e. R and also increase throughput. Four Hospitals within supply Chain We're doing number of different things way have four different offerings that focus on technology, telecom, retail, consumer goods and manufacturing. So, like industrial type clients, >>so pretty much standard vertical industry that we normally see that's cracking in the business. Yeah, so I'll get your thoughts on this. One of the observations I want to share with you and get your reaction is is that with cloud and with data, it's interesting these day. There's a really key part of all this you mentioned. I I t and Security. Obviously, it's pretty straightforward. You see, that way started adding machine learning and a I and the things that domain expertise of these verticals become the pacing item the ke ke i t, if you will with scale of that what's going on? That's right level. Are you seeing that this is a fertile ground for opportunities that how you guys see it? Can you >>you Absolutely I think I think where it centuries strong is in our industry, Ackerman not just to 19 security, but within different industry verticals on. Then you take our digital practice, which is where our data science is live, where they're developing advanced analytics models and essentially working with a lot of the open source modeling tools like python that integrates very well a Splunk. It gives us the opportunity to take that data that could be bundled up. It could be data rest, maybe three years of sales data, and we create a forecast with it and do that on top of spunk. Or maybe something where within a supply chain or a flow within a hospital, were able to use machine learning to start to move some of the computer and thought from human beings to machines >>were some of the innovative service is you guys have built on top of Splunk because they're enabling platform. So again, opportunities. What are you guys doing in the >>soles? So both in the retail and in the technology space, we've created a couple of punishment engines. When you think of a supply chain, I need to know what my forecast is. What do I plan to sell? How many items. Do I need to have an inventory in the warehouse and in the store? And then how am I gonna get those items? And then how many should I order the next day? So we're using Splint to figure all of that out. >>What sort of surprise? Learnings You've got a deal with flunk because has always seems to be a new revelation when people get data and they start playing with insights. Beyond that, some sort of business breakthroughs are weird. Things happen when you start playing with data. Any anecdotal surprises, their learnings. You've seen >>a, well, a tremendous number. And in fact, what what happens is when you start to open up the silos. So most of our clients are stuck with a lot of legacy technologies that they've acquired over the last two or three decades. Splunk enables to open that Optimus get insights that we couldn't before. So it could be it could be. I could get a patient through a particular process, you know, twice as fast is what historically had been able to do. Or maybe for examples, something that Doug Merit mentioned yesterday, which is where we're partying very closely with Splunk for human trafficking. We've created an offering where split it already gone out created Data Lake of a lot of data from educational entities. Ngo's government agencies we took that builds a machine learning on top of it and able to identify high value targets or establishments that have a high risk of human trafficking, which is already starting to get results. In Florida, >>you mentioned health care no multiple times, someone of your key verticals. >>It is one that's emerging is very exciting. And it's kind of evidence of where we're working really well, a sponge. A lot of cases we've developed things that we take into Splunk, and we go to market together. In this particular case, Splunk created patient flow, took it to us. And now we're working to identify about a dozen different hospitals where we're gonna go meet with their CEOs and talk to him about what we can do to help them increased profit and patient satisfaction at the same time. >>What some of those conversations, like when you go and knock on the doors and say, Hey, I got a new secret weapon to solve your problems because this is its new things that people have these problems that couldn't have attacked before in the past. Now they have potential capabilities. What are some of those conversations? Take out there like Come on in, educate me. I want to buy right away or door slammed in your face and get his attention. >>Well, so way just had a really exciting meeting with a very large brochure in the Midwest. And as was explaining the different things that we could do a Splunk she actually the head of supply chain. Excuse me. It almost seems like fairy dust to me. In other words, the hardest challenge that I have sometimes is able to say, Look, you're used to doing this 24 months, maybe 36 months. I think I could do it free in less than six, and that's just so hard for them to absorb. So So a lot of cases it's it's transitioning to Well, let us figure out how we could prove that to you. Doing some kind of a concept or a pilot. >>You know, it's interesting is that you know, when you see people get set up with data platform, it's kind of editor of stage. Let's set the foundation. Let's make sure things flowing in you well. And then they started getting some discoveries here and there, and then they get business value, and then it kind of goes to another level. I think this is where things I see you guys doing well and others here in the ecosystem floor, and that is that It's a workflow optimization issue, I think. Wait a minute, way have all this data. Well, let's go do this. That's a little bit more of a ballistic business process or some sort of. >>That's right. Your >>challenge. Is that how >>you Yes. So I would say you always have a business process, at least in the industry verticals, and you have a lot of data that silo on. Then you crack those silos open on, then it's really basically intersection of what we would call planning and execution, which is, for example, maybe I have on oil rig and I have a ship that is taking materials and people back and forth. But now I know that I have actual things. Head into that port where if I send this ship now, I'm gonna have to come back in the next 24 hours. If I hold that ship off for two or three hours, then I can get more materials and people on board, and I don't have to come back for another 48 hours. So now I've just reduced greatly my operating costs. >>And I think that's interesting. Is that you think about what you just said, Yeah, go back 15 years. What's the data base scheming and make that happen. Date is over there, it's over. They're gonna write a query that Leighton see. It never happens. >>It's Jackie, right? So we're kind of out of the business of trying to fit square pegs into relational round holes, which takes the better part of maybe 50% of a lot of projects to implement those solutions. And so, with spunk, you're basically dumping the date end and you're layering your scheme on top of it, which enables you to accelerate delivery. And additionally, I don't have to cobble together and stitched together multiple technologies to do ingestion analytic storage visualization so I could mobilize teams much more quickly. Then it would traditional solutions. >>You know, Mike, I'd love your thoughts on the center's transformation because looking at you. What you guys have done is a company. It's been interesting, a lot of successes. But firm's been around for a while, right? So impressed. Different names don't back the old school back minicomputers. You know, rolling out projects had long arises. Multiyear. Now the speedy a name has completely changed clouds. Here you got data. How has the Splunk on these Modern technology has changed the centers engagement practices. >>I think you're touching on what we would probably call agile delivery, right or continuous delivery, where our clients don't want to push off from shore into a big bang project where they don't get to see the results for 12 to 24 months. That's a lot of risk for them. So what's book enables us to do, really is to do a delivery and deliver value in Angel's sprints in three 12 you know, 16 weeks sprints where we're literally be giving them value. We also don't have to understand all of the data. If you're using relational databases, you pretty much have to understand everything before you push off from shore with spunk. I can no minimal amount and start and deliver value, and then as I go, I'm learning more about my data. I could deliver more use cases and more value. >>It's interesting, you know, go back to the old enterprise sales model. You know, you do a pilot or a POC poc that a pilot with pilots, a date and that's what months and then Then the decision makes. And then you got to start over for the time that it'll happen in about months. A year. Yeah, technology changes. >>That's right. >>You guys are doing essentially agile sprints that are kind of like a little Mini p O sees. That's that's correct. Docs are actually really work. >>That's right. That's >>the new seems like the new sales model is that >>Well, I would say it's something that, with the rapid prototyping capability, like a sponge that gives us that flexibility todo depending on what we're doing, we may not have that flexibility. We may be limited by the technology. >>How would you describe the strength of censure Splunk partnership? >>It's a very strong So like I mentioned before, we way started to a nap three years ago. Way just renewed that relationship in February, and we've added more practices from within Accenture like digital practice. So now we have strategy, digital technology and security. We're focusing in doubling down and security in our I T markets, but also then starting to explore new industry verticals in Business analytics and Io Ti. As I explained earlier, we're bringing things to Splunk in there helping us cell, and they're bringing things to Austin. We're helping themselves, and there's a lot of excitement. I mean, I think it's really a combination of the right people with the right industry knowledge at the right time with the right technology. >>Final question in the industry For a while, you see the waves pretty big wave run now. Lot of confluence coming together. Multiple different Durant cloud data scale, everything speed. What's exciting you these days? What's the big story that people should pay attention to right now? Well, in this space, I >>think it really dovetails into Doug Steam, and I don't mean Thio, really, you know, piggyback on that. But it's true, and that is that so many of our clients, you know, still have a lot of technical debt from decades ago, and we get to come in there and say, Look in a matter of weeks and months, we could help You make sense of this way, can help you capture revenue you couldn't capture before Dr Out costs that you couldn't drive out before and reduce risk that you couldn't reduce before. So I mean, it's it's probably the best time of my entire career. >>Frankly, Cooper, daddies and certainly containers helps. Yeah, make those legacy workloads somewhat compatible with modern infrastructure. When you have those technical debt conversations with customers kind of realizing like I'm on the verge of bankruptcy, what do I do it? Is it more advisor? You guys come in, more counseling slash get developed? >>Yeah, yeah, A lot of times it's It's helping them to come in and assess what their situation is. Help them build a road map into the future. Sometimes it's rationalizing some of the technical debt. Sometimes it's how can we augment what you already have? And then and then in the future is that reaches end of life. We almost just turn it off. But you're up and running, you know, on this other platform that we've augmented into that ecosystem >>So tech flow positive. >>There you go. >>Yeah, cash flow positive take from technical debt from checked bag. Mike. Thanks for coming up. Appreciate it. Thanks for the knights. Thanks for having me. Great insights. You get all the data and the insights here. Workflow is rocking the cube. Second day of three days. I'm John Barrymore coverage after this short break.

>> from Bahrain. It's the Q recovery AWS Public sector Bahrain brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> welcome to the cues conversation here. You're in Bahrain for Amazon Webster, is this summit our second summit? Um, here. Big news. Amazon Web services announced the availability of the region in the Middle East. I'm here with the chief of Public Sector Theresa Cross and vice President of Worldwide Public Sector. This is a huge milestone. This event one just in terms of the event. The interest across multiple countries in the region. Yes. And you have a new region with multiple availability zones? Yes, up and running. Congratulations. >> Hey, we launched the confetti today and yes, we're open for business and we do. It's a hyper scale region with three available the zones and lots of activity already here in the delays. But it really is a substantial kind of milestone because we started this sometime back in the Middle East, was one of the top regions around the world requested by our partners and customers. And now here we are. >> We've been talking with you for many, many years and I love interviewing you, but this one to me feels like it's not the weight off your shoulders. It's you're at the start line of another marathon. You've achieved so much with this because what's the first thing about Bart Rainey? We've reported on this on Select Angle and our other sites is that you get a lot of work here, is not just turning on a region. There's a lot of government commitment cloud first, full modernization, fintech banking systems, a full re platforming of a government and society and Amazons powering a lot of it and causing a lot of economic growth. So this is a big deal. >> It really is a big deal because, like you said, it really is about digital transformation here. And when I met the crown Prince in 2014 we had this conversation about really creating the economy here in a different way because Bob terrain itself, it's not oil rich country, but a smaller country with lots and lots of tourism. But in this region, while we haven't based here in Bahrain, this is truly a Middle East GCC region and but But part of that, the reason to start it here in my reign was that they really did take a lead in government transformation. As you heard them say, they're going all in shake Some on today talked about government is moving really fast, and they actually did the hard work to think about their telecommunications industry, their government regulations. They started with cloud first, and then they created all the write regulations to make this happen. So it is kind of phenomenal how quickly, in some ways, you know, feel slower than we'd like, But it's really moving quite fast. >> It's pretty fast. You should get a lot of kudos for that. I think you will. But I think to me what's interesting. The news here is that there is a balance between regulation and innovation going on, and regulation can be hampering innovation, some cases and not enough regulation. You have a Facebook situation or >> right so >> it's a balance. These guys have done it right. But to me, the tell sign is the fintech community, >> because that's where >> the money is. The central bank and then the ABC bank are all talking about a pea eye's all in with Amazon that's gonna create an ecosystem for innovation. Startups, et cetera. >> It totally isn't you heard Thean Vivid Jewel from ABC Bank today talk about their platform. What they're doing with clouds and the reason they chose a DBS was because we had this region of Bob Terrain, and they wanted to move quickly in. The regulations now have been updated in a way that actually allows them to do their banking applications in the lab. There's also a startup accelerator here, Fintech May, and they're doing a tenant work with new types of financial applications. So it's so exciting to see this kind of happening than the lace for I think a lot of people thought it would be much slower. We have a ways to go. It's still day one, for sure, but all the building blocks are getting there in the right place to really make this happen. >> You know, 80. Jessie's quoting the announcement you guys had just a couple weeks ago. Laura Angel And in July, the clouds of chance unlocked digital transmission. Middle East, says Andy chassis. Obviously unlocking is a key word because now you have customers from startups to large enterprises and ecosystem of a P M party. So the Ap N Group is here. Yes, So you have global I SUV's here and knew I s V's. You got the government and the education and to me, the news of the show. To me at least maybe it's not the big news, but is that you guys? They're offering a computer like a cloud computing degree. Yeah, for the first time about that news, >> you are right in terms of kind of every sector's picking at, but like in most places around the world, this is not unique. We need skills, and we've got to make sure that we're teaching the skills, working backwards from what the employer needs, like a TVs. So what? We've been here. We announced today we're launching our first cloud computing degree at the university of our terrain, and they're kind of thing. That's really unusual, John. They're going to do a phase one where they offer a cloud certification starting in early 2021 every program at the University of Bahrain, Whether you're in finance or banking, or business or health care or law, you can do this cloud computing certification, which gets you going and helps you understand how you last cloud in your business and then in the fall will be announcing the four year starting, the four year cloud computing degree, and that is in conjunction with our A DBS Educate program. And it will be all the right cloud skills that are needed to be successful. >> Talk about the demographics in this country because one of the things that's coming up is when I talk people in the doorways and it's a chance to talk to some local folks last night that that all in an Amazon, the theme is this. This younger generation yes, is here, and they have different expectations. They all want to work hard. They don't want to just sit back on their laurels and rest on their on their location. Here. They want to build companies they want to change. This is a key factor in the bottle rain modernization. Is that >> Yeah, generation well, all across the Middle East. The thing that's unique about the mill aces, the very young population you had millions of gamers across the Middle East as an example that comic con and Saudi like two years ago on that was one of the most popular things was fortnight. As soon as the region got at all the different gaming started taking place. But we want to create a culture of builders here, and the way you do that is what you said, John putting it into their hands, allowing these young people have the tools create a startup became entrepreneur, but they need to have access to these tools. And sometimes capital is often not that easy to get. So they want to make sure that the capital that they're given or that they have, whether it's bootstrap capital or venture capital, fending or whatever friends and family, they want to make sure that they can use that capital to the greatest advantage to build that company out. And I truly believe that this is gonna help them having an eight of us cloud region. I mean, you saw. Today we have 36 companies that launched their offering in the region on the day we actually announced so that they had specific offerings for the Middle East, which pretty exciting. I mean, that's a lot on day one. >> I mean, it's still day. One of you guys always say, but literally day one they were launching Yeah, I wanted to comment if you could just share some insights. I know, Um, your passion for, you know, entrepreneurship. You guys are also some skill development investing a lot of women in tech power panel this morning, there's major change going on. You guys were providing a lot of incentives, a lot of mentoring, this internships in conjunction with by rain. There's a lot of good things. Share some of the new things that you're working on, maybe deals you're talking about doing or >> way announced Thio kind of new things today. One is we have our we partake program, which I'm, of course, super passionate about. And that is about preventing tech learning and skills to women and underserved in representative communities. So we announced three other training programs here across the Middle East time. So those were put up today and you'll continue to see its role more and more of those out. And the other thing we did yesterday we announced a internship program with the minister of Youth here in Bahrain. That was shaped Nassir, who's a very famous He's that King san, and he's a very famous sportsmen. He does. He just won the Ironman Ironman and 2016. It was the world champion. He does endurance horse racing, so he's a He's a someone that the youth look at to here, and so he's doing all these programs. So we announced a partnership that were the first group doing the internship with this youth program, and so we're very excited. We're going to start that small and scale it, but we want to get these young people quickly and kind of get them excited. But here, what they focus on it is underrepresented communities. So it fits so nicely in with what we're doing with our attack. So you have both Oliver training our over 400 online courses that we offer with a dubious education academy. Now degree now our internship program and we protect. So, John, we're just getting going. I'm not saying that this is all will offer, but these are the things that were getting going with, and we need to make sure we also Taylor things like this Ministry of Youth program and sports at to the region in terms of water, their local needs, and we'll make sure that we're always looking >> at the entrance. Just just get him some great experience. Yes, so they can earn and feel good about themselves. This is kind of a key, exactly thing not just getting an internship, >> and it's, I think, locally it will be about teaching them to do that, disagree and commit really have that backbone to build that company and ask all those hard questions. So we're really going to try to indoctrinate them into the Amazon a TVs culture so we can help them be entrepreneurs like we are every day. >> And you got the data center, you got the city, the centers, you get the regions up and running, and architect, it perfectly suits up with people in it. Are you going to staff that with local talent, or is it gonna be Amazonian is coming in? What's the makeup of staff gonna be? What's the >> story? I mean, our goal is to hire as many local talent. We everywhere we go around the world. We want to get local talent because you can't yet if we did, First of all, we don't have enough people in our headquarters to bring folks in here, so we really have to train and educate. But locally, we have an office open here by rain. We haven't Office Open and Dubai and one down Saudi, and that is local talent. I mean, we are trying to use as much local talent and will continue to create that. And that's kind of the point. Jonas talking about the degree working backwards from what the employer needs. We want to give input because we think we also are getting good. Yeah, so we need to get the top. But we need those other individual employers that keep telling us we need more cloud skills to give that input. But, yeah, >> we're going to get a degree, migrate them into the job >> market, right quick like >> and educates. Been doing great. I learned a lot. This is a whole opportunity for people who want to make money, get a job. Amazon Web service is >> It's a place you could either work for us. Work for someone now, like even the government has a >> virus. Make a person tomorrow >> there. Yet >> we had one, >> but the point of being a builder, what we're seeing more and more John are these companies and government entities are building their talent internally. They're not outsourcing everything anymore, and the whole culture at being a builder, not just outsourcing all that. And that's what eight of us really helps all these entities. D'oh is moved quicker by having kind of some in house talent and not outsourcing everything to slow you down. That >> really thank ABC pointed that out beautifully in his point was, Hey, I'm gonna you know, I'm all in on AWS. We have domain expertise, We have data. That's our intellectual property. We're going to use that and be competitive and partner. And >> yes, and the new models it is. And that I p stays in house with that company or entity or government organization. It was so fun for me today to hear Shake some on from Maggie. A talk about the government is moving fast, and I think that's an example of a really are they figured out clown helps him just go a lot faster and save many security. >> I'm glad you brought that up. I know you got a short time here, but I want one last point in. We've been talking a lot about modernization of government, your success with C i a United States jet I contract still under consideration. All this going on you're experiencing by ranges and, um, unbelievable, fast moving government. They kind of get it. United States some places gets it. This is really about focusing in on the workloads. What have you learned? As you've been engaging these modernization efforts with governments summer slow, some of political ramifications behind. No one wants to lose. Old guard will hold onto the rails. We've seen that in the news, but this is coming fast. What are you learning? What do you >> take away its leadership? I mean, at the end of the day, all these things were driven by a very strong leaders. And even you can see everybody today on stage. It is leaders that make a decision that they wanted a faster and they want to modernize but have the capabilities. No matter if you're the U. S. Department of Defense. Ah, yes. Health and human resource is National Health Service in the UK or RG a hearing by rain, the government's or enterprises that we work with around the world. The key is leadership. And if there's that leader that is really strong and says we're moving, did you actually see organizations move a lot faster if you see people kind of waffle anger. I'm not sure, you know, that's when you can see the slowness. Wow, What I will tell you is from the early days of starting this business in 2010 the individuals that always move fastest for the mission owners because the mission owners of whatever the business West at a governmental level or enterprise, they said, we need to keep our mission going. So that's the reason they wanted to walk through this transformation. >> And now, I think, with developers coming in and started to see these employees for these companies saying, No, no, what's the reason why we can't go fast? That's right now a groundswell of pressure you see in both government, public sector and commercial. >> And you saw Mark Allen today on stage talking about security. It iss literally day. Zero thing for us, and the reason a lot of our customers are meeting faster now is because of security. Cloud is more secure in their meeting to the cloud for security because they feel like they could both optimize, move faster for workloads, and now they have security. Better, faster, cheaper security, bad design, >> Theresa always pleasure thinking coming. Spending time. Thank >> you for coming to Barbara Ryan. Thank you. So >> we're going global with you guys is seeing the global expansion 20 to 22nd region. 69 availabilities owns nine more coming. More regions. More easy. You guys doing great. Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Secure. We are here in Bahrain. Form or coverage. Global coverage of the cube with Reese Carlson, vice president of worldwide public sector. She's running the show doing a great job. We're here more after the stroke break. Stay with us.

>> from Seattle WASHINGTON. It's the Q covering AWS Imagine brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Hey, welcome back already, Jeffrey. Here with the cue, we're in downtown Seattle at the AWS. Imagine, Edie, you event. It's a small conference. It's a second year, but it'll crow like a weed like everything else does the of us. And it's all about Amazon and a degree. As for education, and that's everything from K through 12 community college, higher education, retraining vets coming out of the service. It's a really big area. And we're really excited to have fresh off his keynote presentations where he changed his title on me from what it was >> this morning tow. It was the senator duties >> David Raymond, the director of what was the Virginia Cyber Range and now is the U. S. Cyber range. Virginia Tech. David, Great to see you. >> Yeah, Thank you. Thanks. So the Virginia cyber age actually will continue to exist in its current form. Okay, Well, it'll still serve faculty and students in the in the Commonwealth of Virginia, funded by the state of Virginia. Now the U. S. Cyber Angel fund will provide service to folks outside over, >> so we jumped ahead. So? So it's back up. A step ladder is the Virginia, >> So the Virginia Cyber Range provides courseware and infrastructure so students could do hands on cyber security, educational activities in Virginia, high schools and colleges so funded by the state of Virginia and, um provides this service at no charge to the schools >> and even in high school, >> even in high school. Yes, so now that there are now cybersecurity courses in the Virginia Department of Education course catalogue as of two years ago, and I mean they've grown like wildfire, >> I'm just so a ton of talk here about skills gap. And there's tremendous skills gap. Even the machine's gonna take everybody's job. There's a whole lot of jobs are filled, but what's interesting? I mean, it's the high school angle is really weird. I mean, how do you Most high school kids haven't even kind of clued in tow, privacy and security, opting in and opting out. It's gotta be a really interesting conversation when now you bring security into that a potential career into that and directly reflects on all those things that you do on your phone. >> Well, I would argue that that's exactly the problem. Students are not exposed to cyber security, you know. They don't want the curia potentials are they really don't understand what it is we talked about. We talked about teenagers being digital natives. Really? They know how to use smartphones. They know how to use computers, but they don't understand how they work. And they don't understand the security aspects that go along with using all this technology. And I would argue that by the time a student gets into college they have a plan, right? So I have a student in college. He's he's gonna be a doctor. He knows what a doctor is. He heard of that his whole life. And in high school, he was able to get certified as a nursing assistant. We need cyber security in that same realm, right? If we start students in high school and we and we expose them to cybersecurity courses, they're all elective courses. Some of the students will latch onto it, and I'll say, Hey, this is what I want to be when I grew up. And in Virginia, we have we have this dearth of cyber security expertise and this is true across the country. In Virginia, right now, we have over 30,000 cyber security jobs that are unfilled. That's about 1/3 of the cyber security jobs in this state. And I mean, that's a serious problem, not only in Virginia but nationwide. And one of the ways to fix that is to get high school students exposed to cybersecurity classes, give them some real hands on opportunities. So they're really doing it, not just learning the words and passing the test, and I mean really again in Virginia, this is this is grown like wildfire and really thinks revolutionized cybersecurity education in the state. >> And what are some of the topics that say, a high school level, where you know you're kind of getting versed on the vocabulary and the terminology vs when they go into into college and start to take those types, of course, is >> yeah, so in Virginia, there's actually cybersecurity courses across the C T E career pathways. And so SETI is the career and technical education curricula. And so there are courses like cyber security and health care, where students learn about personal health data and how to secure that specific specific kinds of data, they learn about the regulations behind that data. There's healthcare in manufacturing, where students learn about industrial control systems and you know how those things need to be secured and how they're different from a laptop or a phone. And the way those air secured and what feeds into all of those courses is an introductory course. Cyber security fundamentals, where students learn some of the very basics they learn the terminology. They learn things like the C I. A. Triad right, confidentiality, integrity and availability of the three basic components of security that you try to maintain for any system. So they start out learning the basics. But still they're doing that hands on. So they're so they're in a network environment where they see that you know that later on in the course during Capstone exercises, they might see someone trying to attack a computer that they're that they're tasked to defend and a defender of what does that look like? What are the things that I'm going to do? That computer? You know, I might install anti virus. I might have a firewall on the computer. And how do I set that up and etcetera etcetera. So high school start with the basics. As as students progressed through their high school years, there are opportunities to take further more advanced classes in the high schools. And then when they get to college, some of those students are gonna have latched onto cyber security as a potential career field. Now, now we've got him right way, get him into the right into the right majors and into the right courses. And our hope is that that's gonna sort of kick start this pipeline of students in Virginia colleges, >> right? And then I wonder if you could >> talk a little bit about the support at the state level. And it's pretty interesting that you had him from the state level we heard earlier today about supported the state level. And it was Louisiana for for another big initiative. So you know that the fact that the governor and the Legislature are basically branding this at the state level, not the individual school district level, is a pretty strong statement of the prioritization that they're putting on this >> that has been critical to our success. If we didn't have state level support, significant state level support, there's no way we could be where we are. So the previous governor of Virginia, Terry McAuliffe, he latched on to cyber security education as one of his signature initiatives. In fact, he was the president of the State Governors Association, and in that role he cybersecurity was one of his condition. So so he felt strongly about educating K 12 education college students feeding that cybersecurity pipeline Onda Cyberangels one of one of a handful of different initiatives. So they were veterans scholarships, and there were some community college scholarships and other other initiatives. Some of those are still ongoing so far are not. But but Cyber Range has been very successful. Funded by the state provides a service at no cost to high schools and colleges on Dad's Been >> critically, I can't help. We're at our say earlier this year, and I'm just thinking of all the CEOs that I was sitting with over the course of a couple of days that are probably looking for your phone number right now. Make introduction. But I'm curious. Are are the company's security companies. I mean, Arcee is a huge show. Amazon just had their first ever security conference means a lot of money being invested in this space. Are they behind it? Have you have you looked for in a kind of private company participation to help? Because they desperately need these employees? >> Definitely. So we've just started down that road, Really? I mean, our state funding has kept us strong to this point in our state funding is gonna continue into the foreseeable future. But you're right. There are definitely opportunities to work with industry. Certainly a DBS has been a very strong partner of our since the very beginning. They really I mean, without without the help of some, some of their cloud architects and other technical folks way could not have built what we built in the eight of us. Cloud. We've also been talking to Palo Alto about using some of their virtual appliances in our network environments. So yeah, so we're definitely going down the road of industry partners and that will continue to grow, I'm sure >> So then fast forward today to the keynote and your your announcement that now you taking it beyond just Virginia. So now it's the U. S. Cyber range. Have that come apart? Come about. What does that mean? >> Yes, So we've been We've been sharing the story of the Virginia cyber range for the last couple of years, and I goto national conferences and talk about it. And, um, just to just sort of inform other states, other other school systems what Virginia's doing. How could you? How could you potentially match what we're doing and what The question that I keep getting is I don't want to reinvent the wheel. How can I buy what you have? And that's been sort of a constant drumbeat over the last couple of years. So we decided fairly early on that we might want to try to expand beyond Virginia, and it just sort of the conditions were right about six months ago. So we set a mark on the wall, he said. In Summer of 2019 we're gonna make this available to folks outside of Virginia. And so, so again, the Virginia Cyberangels still exist. Funded by the Commonwealth of Virginia, the U. S cyber range is still part of Virginia Tech. So within Virginia Tech, but we will have to we will have to essentially recoup our costs so we'll have to spend money on cloud infrastructure and We'll have to spend salary money on folks who support this effort. And so we'll recoup costs from folks that are outside of Virginia using our service. But, um, we think the costs are gonna be very competitive compared to similar efforts. And we're looking forward to some successes here. >> And do you think you're you're kind of breakthrough will be at the high school level, the You know, that underground level, you know, where do you kind of see the opportunities? You've got the whole thing covered with state support in Virginia. How does that get started in California? How's that get started here? Yeah, that's a Washington state. >> That's a great question. So really, when we started this, I thought we were building a thing for higher ed. That's my experience. I've been teaching cyber security and higher ed for several years, and I knew I knew what I would want if I was using it, and I do use it. So I teach classes at Virginia Tech Graduate program. So I I used the Virginia side in my class, and, um, what has happened is that the high schools have latched onto this as I mentioned, and Most of our users are high schools. In Virginia, we have 180. Virginia High School is using the Virgin Cyber. That's almost >> 188 1 >> 180. That's almost half the high schools in the state using the Virginia cyber age. So we think. And if you think about, you know, higher. Ed has been teaching cybersecurity classes that the faculty members who have been teaching them a lot of them have set up their own network infrastructure. They have it set up the way they want it, and it ties into their existing courseware, and you know they're going to use that, At least for now. What we provide is is something that makes it so that a high school or a community college doesn't have to figure out how to fund or figure out how to actually put this network architecture together. They just come to us. They have the flexibility of the flexibility to use, just are very basic plug and play network environments, or they have flexibility to, um, make modifications depending on how sophisticated they themselves are with with, you know, manipulating systems and many playing the network so so Our expectation is that the biggest growth is going to be in the high school market, >> right? That's great, because when you say cyber range God, finally, Donna me use it like a target range. It's like a place to go practice >> where the name comes from, right? >> Absolutely. If I finally like okay, I get it. So because it's not only the curriculum and the course where and everything else but it's actually an environment, it depends on the stage things and do things exactly >> So students could d'oh offensive, offensive and defensive cybersecurity activities. And so early on, when we were teaching students howto hack essentially in colleges, you know, there were people who were concerned about that on the military case we make for that is you can't teach somebody how to defend unless they understand how they're gonna be attacked. The same is true in this case. So all of our all of our course, where has lots of ethics and no other legal and other other discussions embedded throughout. So students understand the implications of what their actions would be if they do it somewhere else. And, um, right, these are all isolated network environments their places where students can get hands on in a place where they can essentially do whatever they want without causing trouble on the school network or on the Internet. And it's very much akin to a rifle range, >> right? Like you said, you can have different scenarios. And I would imagine there's probably gonna be competitions of you think. Fact. You know what's going on in the robotics world for lots of all these things, right? Like white hat, black hat hacker. Well, very, very exciting. David, Congratulations. And it sounds like you're well on your way. Thanks. Great. Alright, >> He's David. I'm Jeff. You're watching The Cube were at Washington State Convention Centre just across the street at a W s. Imagine. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. >> Thanks.

>> From our studios, in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Welcome to this CUBE Conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We are here with Arpit Joshipura, GM of Networking, Edge, IoT for the Linux Foundation. Arpit, great to see you again, welcome back to theCUBE, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you, thank you. Happy to be here. >> So obviously, we love the Linux Foundation. We've been following all the events; we've chatted in the past about networking. Computer storage and networking just doesn't seem to go away with cloud and on-premise hybrid cloud, multicloud, but open-source software continues to surpass expectations, growth, geographies outside the United States and North America, just overall, just greatness in software. Everything's an abstraction layer now; you've got Kubernetes, Cloud Native- so many good things going on with software, so congratulations. >> Well thank you. No, I think we're excited too. >> So you guys got a big event coming up in China: OSS, Open Source Summit, plus KubeCon. >> Yep. >> A lot of exciting things, I want to talk about that in a second. But I want to get your take on a couple key things. Edge and IoT, deep learning and AI, and networking. I want to kind of drill down with you. Tell us what's the updates on the projects around Linux Foundation. >> Okay. >> The exciting ones. I mean, we know Cloud Native CNCF is going to take up more logos, more members, keeps growing. >> Yep. >> Cloud Native clearly has a lot of opportunity. But the classic in the set, certainly, networking and computer storage is still kicking butt. >> Yeah. So, let me start off by Edge. And the fundamental assumption here is that what happened in the cloud and core is going to move to the Edge. And it's going to be 50, 100, 200 times larger in terms of opportunity, applications, spending, et cetera. And so what LF did was we announced a very exciting project called Linux Foundation Edge, as an umbrella, earlier in January. And it was announced with over 60 founding members, right. It's the largest founding member announcement we've had in quite some time. And the reason for that is very simple- the project aims at unifying the fragmented edge in IoT markets. So today, edge is completely fragmented. If you talk to clouds, they have a view of edge. Azure, Amazon, Baidu, Tencent, you name it. If you talk to the enterprise, they have a view of what edge needs to be. If you talk to the telcos, they are bringing the telecom stack close to the edge. And then if you talk to the IoT vendors, they have a perception of edge. So each of them are solving the edge problems differently. What LF Edge is doing, is it is unifying a framework and set of frameworks, that allow you to create a common life cycle management framework for edge computing. >> Yeah. >> Now the best part of it is, it's built on five exciting technologies. So people ask, "You know, why now?" So, there are five technologies that are converging at the same time. 5G, low latency. NFV, network function virtualization, so on demand. AI, so predictive analytics for machine learning. Container and microservices app development, so you can really write apps really fast. And then, hardware development: TPU, GPU, NPU. Lots of exciting different size and shapes. All five converging; put it close to the apps, and you have a whole new market. >> This is, first of all, complicated in the sense of... cluttered, fragmented, shifting grounds, so it's an opportunity. >> It's an opportunity. >> So, I get that- fragmented, you've got the clouds, you've got the enterprises, and you've got the telcos all doing their own thing. >> Yep. >> So, multiple technologies exploding. 5G, Wi-Fi 6, a bunch of other things you laid out, >> Mhmm. >> all happening. But also, you have all those suppliers, right? >> Yes. >> And, so you have different manufacturers-- >> And different layers. >> So it's multiple dimensions to the complexity. >> Correct, correct. >> What are you guys seeing, in terms of, as a solution, what's motivating the founding members; when you say unifying, what specifically does that mean? >> What that means is, the entire ecosystem from those markets are coming together to solve common problems. And I always sort of joke around, but it's true- the common problems are really the plumbing, right? It's the common life cycle management, how do you start, stop, boot, load, log, you know, things like that. How do you abstract? Now in the Edge, you've 400, 500 interfaces that comes into an IoT or an edge device. You know, Zigbee, Bluetooth, you've got protocols like M2T; things that are legacy and new. Then you have connectivity to the clouds. Devices of various forms and shapes. So there's a lot of end by end problems, as we call it. So, the cloud players. So for LF Edge for example, Tencent and Baidu and the cloud leaders are coming together and saying, "Let's solve it once." The industrial IoT player, like Dynamic, OSIsoft, they're coming in saying, "Let's solve it once." The telcos- AT&T, NTT, they're saying "Let's solve it once. And let's solve this problem in open-source. Because we all don't need to do it, and we'll differentiate on top." And then of course, the classic system vendors that support these markets are all joining hands. >> Talk about the business pressure real quick. I know, you look at, say, Alibaba for instance, and the folks you mentioned, Tencent, in China. They're perfecting the edge. You've got videos at the edge; all kinds of edge devices; people. >> Correct. >> So there's business pressures, as well. >> The business pressure is very simple. The innovation has to speed up. The cost has to go down. And new apps are coming up, so extra revenue, right? So because of these five technologies I mentioned, you've got the top killer apps in edge are anything that is, kind of, video but not YouTube. So, anything that the video comes from 360 venues, or drones, things like that. Plus, anything that moves, but that's not a phone. So things like connected cars, vehicles. All of those are edge applications. So in LF Edge, we are defining edge as an application that requires 20 milliseconds or less latency. >> I can't wait for someone to define- software define- "edge". Or, it probably is defined. A great example- I interviewed an R&D engineer at VMware yesterday in San Francisco, it was at the RADIO event- and we were just riffing on 5G, and talking about software at the edge. And one of the advances >> Yes. >> that's coming is splicing the frequency so that you can put software in the radios at the antennas, >> Correct. Yeah. >> so you can essentially provision, in real time. >> Correct, and that's a telco use case, >> Yeah. >> so our projects at the LF Edge are EdgeX Foundry, Akraino, Edge Virtualization Engine, Open Glossary, Home Edge. There's five and growing. And all of these software projects can allow you to put edge blueprints. And blueprints are really reference solutions for smart cities, manufacturing, telcos, industrial gateways, et cetera et cetera. So, lots of-- >> It's kind of your fertile ground for entrepreneurship, too, if you think about it, >> Correct; startups are huge. >> because, just the radio software that splices the radio spectrum is going to potentially maybe enable a service provider market, and towers, right? >> Correct, correct. >> Own my own land, I can own the tower and rent it out, one radio. >> Yep. >> So, business model innovations also an opportunity, >> It's a huge-- >> not just the business pressure to have an edge, but-- >> Correct. So technology, business, and market pressures. All three are colliding. >> Yeah, perfect storm. >> So edge is very exciting for us, and we had some new announcements come out in May, and more exciting news to come out in June, as well. >> And so, going back to Linux Foundation. If I want to learn more. >> LFEdge.org. >> That's kind of the CNCF of edge, if you will, right? Kind of thing. >> Yeah. It's an umbrella with all the projects, and that's equivalent to the CNCF, right. >> Yeah. >> And of course it's a huge group. >> So it's kind of momentum. 64 founding members-- >> Huge momentum. Yeah, now we are at 70 founding members, and growing. >> And how long has it been around? >> The umbrella has been around for about five months; some of the projects have been around for a couple of years, as they incubate. >> Well let us know when the events start kicking in. We'll get theCUBE down there to cover it. >> Absolutely. >> Super exciting. Again, multiple dimensions of innovation. Alright, next topic, one of my favorites, is AI and deep learning. AI's great. If you don't have data you can't really make AI work; deep learning requires data. So this is a data conversation. What's going on in the Linux Foundation around AI and deep learning? >> Yeah. So we have a foundation called LF Deep Learning, as you know. It was launched last year, and since then we have significantly moved it forward by adding more members, and obviously the key here is adding more projects, right. So our goal in the LF Deep Learning Foundation is to bring the community of data scientists, researchers, entrepreneurs, academia, and users to collaborate. And create frameworks and platforms that don't require a PhD to use. >> So a lot of data ingestion, managing data, so not a lot of coding, >> Platforms. >> more data analyst, and/or applications? >> It's more, I would say, platforms for use, right? >> Yeah. >> So frameworks that you can actually use to get business outcomes. So projects include Acumos, which is a machine learning framework and a marketplace which allows you to, sort of, use a lot of use cases that can be commonly put. And this is across all verticals. But I'll give you a telecom example. For example, there is a use case, which is drones inspecting base stations-- >> Yeah. >> And doing analytics for maintenance. That can be fed into a marketplace, used by other operators worldwide. You don't have to repeat that. And you don't need to understand the details of machine learning algorithms. >> Yeah. >> So we are trying to do that. There are projects that have been contributed from Tencent, Baidu, Uber, et cetera. Angel, Elastic Deep Learning, Pyro. >> Yeah. >> It's a huge investment for us. >> And everybody wins when there's contribution, because data's one of those things where if there's available, it just gets smarter. >> Correct. And if you look at deep learning, and machine learning, right. I mean obviously there's the classic definition; I won't go into that. But from our perspective, we look at data and how you can share the data, and so from an LF perspective, we have something called a CDLA license. So, think of an Apache for data. How do you share data? Because it's a big issue. >> Big deal. >> And we have solved that problem. Then you can say, "Hey, there's all these machine learning algorithms," you know, TensorFlow, and others, right. How can you use it? And have plugins to this framework? Then there's the infrastructure. Where do you run these machine learning? Like if you run it on edge, you can run predictive maintenance before a machine breaks down. If you run it in the core, you can do a lot more, right? So we've done that level of integration. >> So you're treating data like code. You can bring data to the table-- >> And then-- >> Apply some licensing best practices like Apache. >> Yes, and then integrate it with the machine learning, deep learning models, and create platforms and frameworks. Whether it's for cloud services, for sharing across clouds, elastic searching-- >> And Amazon does that in terms of they vertically integrate SageMaker, for instance. >> That's exactly right. >> So it's a similar-- >> And this is the open-source version of it. >> Got it- oh, that's awesome. So, how does someone get involved here, obviously developers are going to love this, but-- >> LF Deep Learning is the place to go, under Linux Foundation, similar to LF Edge, and CNCF. >> So it's not just developers. It's also people who have data, who might want to expose it in. >> Data scientists, databases, algorithmists, machine learning, and obviously, a whole bunch of startups. >> A new kind of developer, data developer. >> Right. Exactly. And a lot of verticals, like the security vertical, telecom vertical, enterprise verticals, finance, et cetera. >> You know, I've always said- you and I talked about this before, and I always rant on theCUBE about this- I believe that there's going to be a data development environment where data is code, kind of like what DevOps did with-- >> It's the new currency, yeah. >> It's the new currency. >> Yeah. Alright, so final area I want to chat with you before we get into the OSS China thing: networking. >> Yeah. >> Near and dear to your heart. >> Near and dear to my-- >> Networking's hot now, because if you bring IoT, edge, AI, networking, you've got to move things around-- >> Move things around, (laughs) right, so-- >> And you still need networking. >> So we're in the second year of the LF Networking journey, and we are really excited at the progress that has happened. So, projects like ONAP, OpenDaylight, Tungsten Fabric, OPNFV, FDio, I mean these are now, I wouldn't say household names, but business enterprise names. And if you've seen, pretty much all the telecom providers- almost 70% of the subscribers covered, enabled by the service providers, are now participating. Vendors are completely behind it. So we are moving into a phase which is really the deployment phase. And we are starting to see, not just PoCs [Proofs of Concept], but real deployments happening, some of the major carriers now. Very excited, you know, Dublin, ONAP's Dublin release is coming up, OPNFV just released the Hunter release. Lots of exciting work in Fido, to sort of connect-- >> Yeah. >> multiple projects together. So, we're looking at it, the big news there is the launch of what's called OVP. It's a compliance and verification program that cuts down the deployment time of a VNF by half. >> You know, it's interesting, Stu and I always talk about this- Stu Miniman, CUBE cohost with me- about networking, you know, virtualization came out and it was like, "Oh networking is going to change." It's actually helped networking. >> It helped networking. >> Now you're seeing programmable networks come out, you see Cisco >> And it's helped. >> doing a lot of things, Juniper as well, and you've got containers in Kubernetes right around the corner, so again, this is not going to change the need, it's going to- It's not going to change >> It's just a-- >> the desire and need of networking, it's going to change what networking is. How do you describe that to people? Someone saying, "Yeah, but tell me what's going on in networking? Virtualization, we got through that wave, now I've got the container, Kubernetes, service mesh wave, how does networking change? >> Yeah, so it's a four step process, right? The first step, as you rightly said, virtualization, moved into VMs. Then came disaggregation, which was enabled by the technology SDN, as we all know. Then came orchestration, which was last year. And that was enabled by projects like ONAP and automation. So now, all of the networks are automated, fully running, self healing, feedback closed control, all that stuff. And networks have to be automated before 5G and IoT and all of these things hit, because you're no longer talking about phones. You're talking about things that get connected, right. So that's where we are today. And that journey continues for another two years, and beyond. But very heavy focused on deployment. And while that's happening, we're looking at the hybrid version of VMs and containers running in the network. How do you make that happen? How do you translate one from the other? So, you know, VNFs, CNFs, everything going at the same time in your network. >> You know what's exciting is with the software abstractions emerging, the hard problems are starting to emerge because as it gets more complicated, end by end problems, as you said, there's a lot of new costs and complexities, for instance, the big conversation at the Edge is, you don't want to move data around. >> No, no. >> So you want to move compute to the edge, >> You can, yeah-- >> But it's still a networking problem, you've still got edge, so edge, AI, deep learning, networking all tied together-- >> They're all tied together, right, and this is where Linux Foundation, by developing these projects, in umbrellas, but then allowing working groups to collaborate between these projects, is a very simple governance mechanism we use. So for example, we have edge working groups in Kubernetes that work with LF Edge. We have Hyperledger syncs that work for telecoms. So LFN and Hyperledger, right? Then we have automotive-grade Linux, that have connected cars working on the edge. Massive collaboration. But, that's how it is. >> Yeah, you connect the dots but you don't, kind of, force any kind of semantic, or syntax >> No. >> into what people can build. >> Each project is autonomous, >> Yeah. >> and independent, but related. >> Yeah, it's smart. You guys have a good view, I'm a big fan of what you guys are doing. Okay, let's talk about the Open Source Summit and KubeCon, happening in China, the week of the 24th of June. >> Correct. >> What's going on, there's a lot of stuff going on beyond Cloud Native and Linux, what are some of the hot areas in China that you guys are going to be talking about? I know you're going over. >> Yeah, so, we're really excited to be there, and this is, again, life beyond Linux and Cloud Native; there's a whole dimension of projects there. Everything from the edge, and the excitement of Iot, cloud edge. We have keynotes from Tencent, and VMware, and all the Chinese- China Mobile and others, that are all focusing on the explosive growth of open-source in China, right. >> Yeah, and they have a lot of use cases; they've been very aggressive on mobility, Netdata, >> Very aggressive on mobility, data, right, and they have been a big contributor to open-source. >> Yeah. >> So all of that is going to happen there. A lot of tracks on AI and deep learning, as a lot more algorithms come out of the Tencents and the Baidus and the Alibabas of the world. So we have tracks there. We have huge tracks on networking, because 5G and implementation of ONAP and network automation is all part of the umbrella. So we're looking at a cross-section of projects in Open Source Summit and KubeCon, all integrated in Shanghai. >> And a lot of use cases are developing, certainly on the edge, in China. >> Correct. >> A lot of cross pollination-- >> Cross pollination. >> A lot of fragmentation has been addressed in China, so they've kind of solved some of those problems. >> Yeah, and I think the good news is, as a global community, which is open-source, whether it's Europe, Asia, China, India, Japan, the developers are coming together very nicely, through a common governance which crosses boundaries. >> Yeah. >> And building on use cases that are relevant to their community. >> And what's great about what you guys have done with Linux Foundation is that you're not taking positions on geographies, because let the clouds do that, because clouds have-- >> Clouds have geographies, >> Clouds, yeah they have agents-- >> Edge may have geography, they have regions. >> But software's software. (laughs) >> Software's software, yeah. (laughs) >> Arpit, thanks for coming in. Great insight, loved talking about networking, the deep learning- congratulations- and obviously the IoT Edge is hot, and-- >> Thank you very much, excited to be here. >> Have a good trip to China. Thanks for coming in. >> Thank you, thank you. >> I'm John Furrier here for CUBE Conversation with the Linux Foundation; big event in China, Open Source Summit, and KubeCon in Shanghai, week of June 24th. It's a CUBE Conversation, thanks for watching.

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering del Technologies. World twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Del Technologies and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome on board technologies World. Lisa Martin with Rebecca Night for the first time hosting together. And I have to say this is probably one of my favorite times of del technologies world because we have dogs on the Cube joining us for Michael Angel Pause. We've got Alicia Halloran. She's back. She's a Q. Pietro's here last year. Your Fallen here, Here's OD and Gracie and holding Creasy is Denise Michael's Cox Global Experiential marketing from Del Technologies. Tony's Thank you for joining us as well. Certainly a lot of female power. You right out. He's just letting a male hanging out. Alicia, it's so good to have you back Way have enjoyed being having our set Next. Tio Michael's age. Applause again. This year. It's so great to hear barking. Yeah, when you're talking about, I think I'm at home so true. Talk to us a little bit about Michael's Angel. Pause your experience as a volunteer out. Yeah, D'Oh well, first of all, Michael Angel paused >> is was a static to nonprofit established in Las Vegas, and they have three main programs. They have a community dog program, which really strengthens the bonds between people and their animals. And they have a therapy dog program, which is what these lovelies air part of, and we just love to bring joy and delight everywhere we go. And then they also have a service dog training, which allows people with autism or with their mobility issues or any kind of medical alert. So that's the main process of what Michael Angel paused does way air volunteers with them. We have loved being volunteers with them. Uh, OD is blind, and we managed to get him through the therapy dog program, and we love to come to conferences and just really help people feel better. And Gracie, of course, is just a little beauties. So, >> yeah, so Denise, tell me a little bit about why Dell has partnered with this with this organ, which is a great organization. And why might people need to feel better when they're out of touch? Honor. That's been may be related to this morning's kid note address with the anxiety, sometimes technology way. You do like >> to say we think of everything for Del Technologies world. So what is one more thing? How to surprise and delight our costumers? Air attendees here. And also it's really important for us as Del Technologies to give back to the community. And so it's a great opportunity to give back to great organization like Michael's Angels. Pause and surprise and delight our guests with the with several dogs to pet. Because you know, when you go to a conference when you travel, you miss your pets a lot. A lot of people miss their dogs, and so we're here for them to get a dog fix or maybe just come in for a few minutes. Distress. Er, jetsam dogs come out happy. Everyone who walks in, walks in, smiling and walks out, smiling bigger. So it's a great place. Tio work here, too. >> We were hearing last year that Michael Age, a PAS exhibit exhibit, was one of the most popular places for Get fourteen fifteen thousand people to congregate. Ru. Do you experience the same thing this year? Yes, >> definitely, definitely didn't really. It's been really busy, like these little ebbs and flows like you just catch a breath and then twenty five people are there and they're all like, Oh, it's so great. It's so great to see people relax and be able to kind of sit down and take a breath, which I think is really hard in a conference like this. >> It is, and it's also STD. So you mentioned it's nice to recognize that they're all people. They all have families, a lot of them, whether their pet owners or not. It's just a nice way to just sort of get back to reality, maybe come down from the cloud right on and actually have a little bit of something that just brings a just a smile to your heart. Yes, >> bring some joy even without technology. >> So we know the humans love it. But here, the Toups, how are they doing? Because, as you said, they usually you're going toe spills There. You told each home write and write and how are they handling? They >> handle it. Amazingly, they love to come. You know, the energy is very, very different, so they can be a little bit more rambunctious. They could move a little bit more because they're not working with somebody that is in hospice or you know has an illness. So it's people who are exactly feeling sad that they don't have their animals with them, and they get to get cuddled and squeezed and they love it. So it's a wonderful experience for them. They love to do it. She kind of looks a little sleepy, but that's kind of her way of being like >> he's himself. You're >> yeah, Just loves it. What is some of the reactions elation that you've experience out in the field like, for example, in the hospital or a hospice organization or in firemen's Yeah, that you see patients. Oh, yeah, they light owns, >> they light up. I mean, when you go to a hospital, people are in a hospital, and so everything is very regimented, their way woken up in the middle of the night to do whatever needs to be done. And people are kind of like talking about them, but not actually to them, and that animals don't differentiate there just like we want to sit with you, and that's what we're going to do. We're just going to sit with you, so it gives them a moment to just relax again and not have to think about. When's the next blood draw? When's the next thing that's gonna happen? So it's a really wonderful, relaxing experience for them. It's it's it's and and the joy that it brings. And I think there's a lot of healing in that that when your feel good, you feel good, you have the ability to heal better. And so I think therapy dogs are so important in a in a hospital environment, and >> this is a two step sort of certification program. They become a therapy dog first, and then they would become a service dog. Or can they go into a hospital as a therapy dog to >> go in as a therapy dog? Yes, so that's That's the work that these guys do service dogs or more about if you have something on illness, or that you have some mobility issues that you need balance or you need if you have PTSD that you need to have a dog with you all the time just to kind of keep you keep you together, which I think everybody understands that it feels good to have an animal with you. So these guys are therapy dogs, which is not the service dogs. >> Got it? Yeah. >> Denise, this is your baby. This thing, The show. Congratulations. It was a great show. Fifteen thousand attendees. Eso money partners. So money. A lot of great energy and a great vibe. Can you just talk a little bit? About what? This year's event This this dull world technologies has meant to you. This has >> been a great event every year. It's a great about. But this year, Thea Energy is even higher, so positive it's always really positive. Be here anyway. And so many more people this year, too. It's just a constant Gogo energy all the time. And it's It's wonderful. It's so fun. I love being part of the organization and proud to be able to say that I helped and some a little bit put this together. And so I'm just happy to be here and proud to be a part of Del Technologies to >> Denise before we let you go and get some well deserved. This's also a charity and philanthropy that's close, and Michael Dell's Hart Can you explain a little bit about that? And how he helps veterans in this way? >> Well, how Michael helps veterans or Michael's Angels pause veterans because they both do. >> Michael, let's talk about Michael Dell for since this is kind of his thing, yeah, well, it's, >> um, like for Del itself, a Michael Dell to is very important to him. To give back to the community is is important to us all. And that's a big part of what we dio and this opportunity to that now contribute event. Veterans like these guys go to that veteran homes and help with, um now Del itself. And Michael Dell also contributes Teo many veteran organizations helping veterans with PTSD. And we saw that last year at Del World talking a lot about continue working with veterans, working through PTSD with the art art for veterans. And so there's many organizations like that we work with our Del Technologies and Michael Dell works with, and that give that >> exit was we heard that maybe there was some support financial support for dogs that go through service training to become service dogs for veterans, which is a pretty extensive process and quite expensive. So nice to hear how much it really doesn't mean to the heart of Adele Denise Alicia. Thank you. Someone like you, but I mean, of course, Odeon, Gracie. Humans think they are. Thanks, guys. Really brought a smile to my heart and I got to go home to my dog with first. She's yet, right? Yeah. Like for Rebecca Knight. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching The Cube live from Dale Technologies World twenty nineteen. Thanks so much for watching.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering Dell Technologies World 2019, brought to you by Dell technologies and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, Lisa Martin with Stu Miniman theCUBE coming to you from Dell Technology Worlds 2019 day one, there's only about 15 thousand people here and about four thousand of Dell Technologies closest partners. We're very pleased to welcome back one of our Alumni to theCUBE, Chris McNabb the CEO of Dell Boomi. Chris thanks for joining us! >>u Lisa it's great to be here, Stu great to see you again. You know it's really exciting. >> This morning we've had such an electric day, I'd say we're half way through day one. This mornings key note kicked off with a lot of energy. First of all I have to say Michael Dell coming out to Queen music, that was for me you had me at hello. >> Yeah me too. After seeing Bohemian Rhapsody, it was the only way to go. >> He must be a fan of the movie! >> Exactly. >> Yeah Chris do you have your walk on music picked yet? >> I don't yet I'm still kind of shuffling through a couple different options. >> Okay well we can help with that, we're music fans too. >> Gotcha. >> But so much excitement, so much energy, so much collaboration across all of Dells brands, Michael saying with big energy, Boomi is leading with cloud data integration. Talk to us about what's going on at Boomi we were with you guys about five months or so ago at Boomi World, what's happening now, what's exciting you? >> So every day is exciting at Boomi we continue to grow extraordinarily rapidly across the world and we are focused on accelerating business outcomes for our customers, it is simple as that. It's why our customers stay with us we have over 97% retention rate so we're successful at doing that and when you can come in and produce wins for people, you know they have data silos all over the place, they need to be able to reconnect their systems, apps, databases, but also their processes, people and devices. And once you look at that whole landscape when you can come in and reunify that for them in a way in which they can engage customers, partners or employees in new ways, it's just a huge win and it's a pleasure to get up out of bed every morning without problem. >> Chris It's a powerful story I have to admit it took me a little while to kind of squint through and understand what Boomi did because a lot of times it's like oh it's the cool cloud native, new factor everything like that and we understand getting from the applications that I have today to you know whatever that digitalization, monetization, modernization I have is challenging and there's multiple ways to get there so if I can the thing that was exciting is we hear a lot you know let's meet you where you are and a lot of that is my applications and my processes, my work flow so to modernize and go through that digital transformation, some of it is to create brand new but a lot of that is how do I get what I have to that new multi cloud environment and that was the shout out I heard from Michael this morning about Pivotal, VMware, and Boomi as part of that spectrum to help get us there. Do I have that right? >> Yeah Stu you do, it's just listen, Hybrid IT is going to be here a really long time. People are going to try and survive a scenario where you've got 15 different apps built by 15 different vendors, you've got shadow databases, you've got all this stuff and you're like, but I've got customer data everywhere. So when you're looking for something as simple as a list of customers, what list? None of those data sources are the same, so how do you aggregate that, how do you filter that, how do you do it. So Boomi doesn't want people to just survive Hybrid IT, Boomi wants you to thrive in that environment, want you to really get going and be able to easily unite that, aggregate that, filter that as necessary. So now I have a unified data set in which I can go and engage my sales force and my customers with, and that's really where we play is trying to get it all to be reconnected or unified. >> It's essential everything is about the customer experience, Stu and I were just at a show that was all focused on CX but to have a good customer experience you have to have the right technologies enabling your own workforce to deliver what the customer needs because customer satisfaction yield business outcomes, it's a whole cycle there. >> Yeah. >> For our viewers who want a better vision of where does Boomi fit into you know, I'm a Dell EMC customer, I'm VMware customer, where does Boomi fit in and help these customers to transform that integration layer that allows them to take advantage of this exciting multi cloud world? >> Yeah so Lisa I'll just tell you a really quick story, I'll tell you a personal story. When Boomi has been growing very very rapidly, 62% growth through last year alone, so we're adding people really really fast. As a result of that scale we were horrible at onboarding our new employees, we had a really bad problem, so we looked to our own platform to transform our business and our net new employees experience with that business. Long story short I didn't have people, everybody was busy, I got one of our partners to use our platform to create an entire new employee onboarding process for Boomi. Our net new employee just kind of jumped to the end of the deal, we now have a 21st century engagement mechanism for our employees, that partner of ours put that whole solution together and put it into production in four months, most importantly let's talk about business outcomes. My net new employee NPS went from minus 76, worse number I've ever heard in anything, been in IT 30 years, to plus 92, six months after it's in production we're ready to go. So now to give you a sense, people used to have to fill out a case and go to our case management, fill out a case, schedule a meeting to get a picture taken to get their security badge, now selfie, do you like it, submit, you're done. And all of that, the mobile app that tracks it and performs it, all the engagement, all the interaction with all the systems, we provision our employees across 27 different systems all instantaneous, that used to take us 60 days to get them on to all those different systems. So all of those outcomes is all done with the Boomi platform, the integration requirements, the low code, and the mobile app is all Boomi. So that's why we focus on outcomes. >> So Chris in the key note this morning, want to understand how Boomi fits into some of these environments. We saw Microsoft obviously a big push, long Dell partner, and the other one Kubernetes is the area for all the cloud native discussion and various pieces. How do those fit in to your world? >> So Stu first of all to really understand sort of the bigger picture with Dell and their transformation story right, essential hardware provider, infrastructure provider, you've got VMware and Virtustrea almost making an infrastructure as a service sort of like the bottom of a triangle. You have Pivotal cloud boundary, building applications for competitive advantage right, and then no application works without data. And when you talk about it from a platform perspective that's how I like to think about it and explain it to people that's how Dell Technologies can bring all of this to the table and focus it now on your transformation. When ti comes to the specifics around what VMware and Pivotal are doing with Kubernetes and Google and some other folks and so on, the way we distribute integrations is basically via container technologies, we've had Docker Support now Kubernetes support, so it's very native to us that's how we can manage it from one spot and yet deploy really anywhere as it runs, so there's a lot of data capabilities that really align very well with Pivotal, we also have the Pivotal Data Services Tile so if you're an application developer, you're building that really cool app and oh that's ready to go but you need data from somewhere, you click the Boomi tile it's that data services tile, you can embed it right into your code, in and out comes the data sort seamlessly for you, it's a much better experience for the developer. So all of these companies are coming together to make sure these platforms align in such a way that our transform and outcome focus for our Dell technologies customers. >> We've heard a lot of that, companies coming together. Collaboration was one of the themes I took away from this mornings key note with the guys and gals that were on stage. We've heard that from Dell Technologies, Dell EMC folks, this morning, today, yourself. That collaborative effort is really clear when you're talking to customers. Speaking of collaborating with customers on the evolution and iterations and things, what were some of the, I'm curious, the theme of Boomi world was you guys were going to reinvent iPads, about five months since, you're smiling. >> Yeah. Talk to us about how you've collaborated with some of your key customers to do that, where you are today five months after saying hey, this is what we're going to do we're going to shake this up. >> The future of iPads is extraordinarily exciting, and come to Boomi world next year and we're going to tell you a really good story. But when you talk about redefining the ion iPads, going from integration platforms of service to intelligent platforms of service, and how AIML can change this game. We brought together key partners who have had extensive experience both in AIML, a lot of big public companies that you would know, as well as our customers and now you start looking at things in combination to dramatically speed up how integrations done and who's capable of doing it. I always felt like if I could get integration down into the hands of business analyst, and down into the hands of smart people but not software engineers, leave them for the really hard technical problems, the things that push your business forward, and not hey I need a data set from HR for salary reasons or whatever. And voice and combination with AI allowing you to generate and respond to natural language, hey sales force I'd like the pipeline report for Western North America please, back comes the data set and all you have to do as a user of that is form a question and humans are awesome at that they've been doing it since they were two, and when you can start to leverage that kind of capability, AIML for natural language, you figure out how to interact with it, you get patterns on how to do that that's in our database from the thousands of people that have interacted. So when we look at the future, leveraging our partners for skills that we're not expert at yet, AIML gave us a leep, customers what is it that you need us to do first? And we're starting to bring all that together In a very very interesting way. >> Alright so Chris Boomi has it's own show, but I'm sure there's a lot of overlap between the customers here. What are some of the key objectives and what's your teams goals for this week here at Dell Technologies World? >> Well this week here you know we have a lot of customers here as well, obviously in the Boomi World show we're very specific to the user community that we've got so you get a lot of tracks about specific tips and tricks that you can have and specific ways to do things, best practices, did you know we could do this, did you know that, all that kind of things. Here it's a little bit broader picture, you're dealing with a broader audience, there's more of an awareness problem in some cases some people aren't quite sure what Boomi does and why Dell Technologies has a company like Boomi, so we're here to change that from an awareness side. Got some really cool demos in how we do that, and kind of engage, and then we have our specific customers who we can pull off to the side and talk about their specific challenges. What's next for them, what're the next transformations they want to achieve and what's the next outcome they've got in line and how can we partner with them to help them achieve that. So it's really kind of a two fold kind of a thing, our booth is awareness and is there an opportunity to work together and partners, what's the next step for us. >> One of the things I heard when you shared that Boomi's personal story, the Boomi on Boomi story was the massive impacts that you've made to just the employee onboarding process and I shouldn't say just because we all know, again we talked about customer experience a few minutes ago and that's essential for any business, but to have a good customer experience you have to have successful, enabled, productive employees on all that lines, front lines, middle lines, back lines, et cetera. When you are talking with prospects who maybe are very familiar with Dell Technologies and most of the brands, how well does that story resonate that this is really fundamental integration, especially in this big hybrid multi cloud world in which we live, to have this integration as a core enabler of digital transformation, but also of employee experience, customer experience, business outcomes. >> You know Lisa a lot of times when you talk to people, like if I were to tell you the Boomi story and we had never met it's a little hard to believe that I could do that much and have that big of an impact in four months. It's kind of like oh okay, is he selling me? So a lot of times when we meet people for the first time, if we can get them to just give us a chance, we do a lot of proof of concepts with people, we're cloud software so I can give it to you right now, I could just set you up with an account in three minutes and you're off and running. So you can play with it, you can get experienced with it, you can kind of understand how we do that. Like if we have a claim that we're six times faster than Legacy providers it's like well how do you do that? Well you get a sense of how we do that, and how leverage, meditate it, we use AI to do that, we generate things for you, et cetera. So there's a bit of a awareness and then they take that Missouri side, but can you show me, I'm not sure I believe you, show me. We do that in POC's and then we can kind of really get the ball rolling. So that tends to be the general pattern that we go through with net new customers and prospects, to try and get them exposure. >> You guys have I think it's over eight thousand, over 82 hundred customers globally, you've got some big brands, you've got Lyft, you've got Sky, Chevron, GE, one of my favorite stories from Boomi World was one of your customer award winners, Digital Angel, and how they're reinventing this smart bed technology for hospitals in the Netherlands. Something I wasn't aware of before even technology in a mattress. Talk to us about how Boomi is an enabler there. >> Well it's such a great outcome story. So the smart mattress is intended for the Geriatric Nursing Home settings, and one of the biggest most fundamental problems with health care in a geriatric setting is infection with body sores, decubs, and very simply moisture is a massive cause, lack of movement is a massive cause, and it depends a little bit on age and so on but so they install the smart mattress in all the rooms, and it records and its monitoring your breaths, your perspiration, any moisture events, your heart rate, and so on, and all this data it's just spitting out data and Boomi's there to catch it. Now what Boomi does is it sits on the mattress, and just processes data and as long as everything's fine it just sort of processes it, the minute any thresholds are met, so if you haven't moved in two hours, two hours is kind of a magic number for people if you have not moved in two hours, Boomi immediately sends up an alert in the form of a case, and this case in Tampa Bay in their service now system it shows up on their board priority one case, go get Lisa and give her a nudge, get her to move around a little bit. Same with a moisture event, that's a priority one, go dry them and so on, and they've been able to dramatically reduce the infection rate for the elderly as they reside in these nursing home settings just to be attentive, they know immediately when something needs to be done and only when it's done, you don't get the false positive. So that setting to me and what Digital Angel's doing with that mattress is changing outcomes, and then Boomi just sits on all the mattresses and communicates the individual to the common nursing setting, it's great. >> Pretty powerful stuff. >> It's awesome like I said it's fun when you can make such a big outcome change for people that who you get that kind of reduction in infections in a short period of time, it's very exhilarating. >> So Chris last thing I wanted to ask is, it's addressing people always often look at the pieces of the Dell family as independent and on their own, they've got their brand their on the banner and everything, but you know we talked to Rory about and we saw on the stage this morning a lot of how the pieces are really working together from the top strategy all the way down to the field, how they're working together, give us your perspective as one of the CEO's in the Dell family as to how that's moving. >> Stu I refer to it for folks as our unfair competitive advantage, it's as simple as that. The horse power, the just sheer sort of economy's of scale, and the technical ability, the innovation and the customer first perspective that all these business bring together, as we come together and work together, we have an ability to change customers lives forever in combination and I haven't met a leader of a business that has said well wait a minute, where's my piece of the puzzle, where is this, how do I win, there are no I's when we come together. Rory running the Virtustream business and we're talking about Boomi now runs on Virtustream and as you move mission critical applications how can you get Boomi there so people can share the SAP data that's there now in Virtustream, into other parts of the organization. Talked about the Pivotal Tile, I've got some work going on with Sanjay at VMware, and it's never I, it's always how do we do more for our customers and when we do that and then you put the Dell go to market field behind it, I don't know how many there are 20, 30 thousand sales makers in Dell technologies alone doesn't include VMware and the rest of us, it's an extraordinarily powerful ecosystem that is focused on one thing, customer results. And I'll tell you it couldn't be better, as a leader of a business within there, it literally couldn't be better. >> Wow Chris that is outstanding thank you so much for sharing your perspectives -- >> My pleasure. >> And what's going on with Boomi, we look forward to seeing you at Boomi World 2019. >> Lisa I can't wait, Stu I hope you can make it this time. But thank you very much I really appreciate you having me one. >> Oh our pleasure. For Stu Miniman, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching us live in Vegas, day one of Dell Technology World's 2019, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Live, from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE! Covering Dell Technologies World 2019, brought to you by Dell Technologies, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Dell Technologies World 2019 from Las Vegas at the Sands Expo Center. I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier, this is day one of two sets of coverage for three days for theCUBE. There are at least 15,000 people here, we just came from a great keynote, Michael Dell, Pat Gelsinger, Jeff Clarks, Sati Netella was here. John and I are pleased to welcome back to theCUBE one of our guests, we've got Doug Schmitt, president of Dell Technologies Services. Doug, welcome back. >> Well, thank you for having me. >> And you've brought a partner in crime, we have Alex Barretto, Senior Vice President of Dell Technologies Services, Strategic Planning, and Technology. Alex, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, happy to be here. >> So guys, I always love the keynotes. Michael always has- Michael and team always have great energy. Lot of cool announcements, all talking about digital transformation. But Doug, let's start with you, let's talk about the transformation of Dell Technologies Services. Give us an overview of your organization, and what you're doing for Dell Technologies Services. >> Yeah, well thank you for having us back. I know we were here last year talking a little bit about Dell Technologies, and wow, what an opening keynote this morning. And following up on that; look, service is key component, obviously. Helping our customers through their transformation. Our number one priority, it's really simple. It's literally about, for, and helping the customers. Whether it be specifically kind of, three areas: to sport, deployment, and their manning services. And helping them not only keep their data centers to the edge, running correctly. Making sure to help them through their transformations that they're going through, that we talked a lot about this morning. And then, what we do is we support our customers really with 60,000 people globally, about half of those are Dell Badge, the others, we leverage partners in various countries for. Look, it's about getting up every day and making sure everything runs correctly for them. And that's our job. >> Alex, talk about the strategy for services. Because one of the highlights in the keynote was Bank of America talking about how they got where they are today, and they go forward. It's not the same, things are changing, you guys have to change. What's changing in sevices? What's the strategy? Because it's a whole new ballgame. >> Yeah, great question. In fact, technology is- we have to ask ourselves of our own transformation. In fact, Doug and I spend quite a bit of time talking about a technology world map. Really, if you open the aperture of 'What is technology?', it's everything from data science, to our bots, to our software engineers, into the AI, engineers are developing both in-house as well as partnering with others. That is really the essence of what we're doing in services, and you see customers like Bank of America really adopting that. Because it's helpful in the value that customers get out of our technology. >> And the data was also important, they mentioned data. How are you guys using data in services? I'm sure you must be data-driven. I mean, the mandate up from high, Michael's like, "It's a data-driven world, it's clear as day." >> Absolutely, data is essential. In fact, if you look at the amount of data that's out there, and the growth of the data, it's just phenomenal. But the way I actually like to talk about data is the insights we get from data, right? Data is interesting, but the value that you get from data comes from the insights. So, we actually spent a lot of time developing models, and that's why we use a lot of data scientists, a lot of software engineers. Again, to develop models to generate value from the data. That value is what customers are looking for, and what we're focused on. >> In terms of value, one of the things that was also talked about this morning in the keynote is people and the workforce being massively distributed for any kind of business. 81% of the average worker, is outside of the traditional office, with over half of these people, I'm one of them, working in at least three different places every week. You've got customers that are highly distributed, as is your workforce. What can you talk to us, Alex, about the unified workspace announced on stage this morning? >> Fantastic new offering that we have, obviously you heard from Jeff onstage talking about that. And if you look at that, there are a couple elements that are interesting to me. First, you see all the pieces of Dell Technologies coming together to create greater value for the customer, and if you look at the value that's generated there, to your point, wherever you are as a customer, you're able to access your specific information, whatever the device. And so, if you think about your whole experience, device independent, as well as from a software standpoint, we can offer all in one. >> How, how is-- Sorry Doug, how is service integral to this, you know? >> Well that's-- yeah. What that's really about is so, you have workspace one, coming from VM, great offer and product. And then you have our services, which would be pro-deploy, are pro-support and in some cases, even the manning services, coming together with that to provide a wrapper around that. So, customers have that end-to-end experience with unified workspace, getting those four great service offerings together. Which really then brings it all together for the customer. So they have to do very little, quite frankly, to make that happen. >> One of the comments from Sati Netella was the whole new renaissance of IT needs infrastructure. You see the VX rail being bundled into data centers and service, the demo of the VM-ware cloud, where the just deploy a data center to the edge. I mean, this is just completely game-changing. How is that changing how you guys do the services? Because you guys, it was self-healing. There was a lot of stuff in the dashboard-- no one was deployed, it was all being done with software. How is this changing your mix of business, personnel, economics? >> Great question. You know, we talk about how we're helping customers transform Dell Technologies, well look, services is going through its own transformation as well. And I think that's what you're bringing up. And really, there's four pivots around that transformation we see inside of services that we have to do to stay up and make sure that we're cutting-edge for our customers. The first is around technology, Alex talked a little bit about that. But really, what that's about is the telemetry to help our customers. Data insights, it's not just the data. The second is around our systems that we're putting in place to leverage all that telemetry. You know, we're basically building a whole new CRM, bringing everything together. Our field capabilities, in terms of systems we're building out as well. So a massive transformation on the infrastructure inside just running this to support really. It's a $150 million install base. >> Can you share just stats or data on what's the most popular services you're deploying? And which ones are trending? Like, which ones are kind of, people kicking the tires on? Obviously, you've got the grooves swing on some of your key products. What's the hottest, services/products that you have? >> Well look, our Pro Support Plus is a very hot product for us, it literally provides end-to-end support for our customers, provides what we call a technical account manager, or service account manager with it. It gives you the insights then to really go help you. So it's not then about break/fix anymore. What it's about is proactive, predictive service, and then actually using that to go to the customer and say, "Hey, you know what? "Here's what we're seeing, here's how you can improve "your environment, not only prevent issues from happening, "but what are we doing to actually improve, "and carry that environment forward." And our customers love that. >> Any up and coming, trending products, services you see? Obviously, I can see yeah, there's probably going to be some new services there, but what are going to be the hot new techniques? >> I think seeing the same spot in ProManage which you'll see us carry forward here, and carrying it into the managing service is how do we continue to provide more of that end-to-end? Really, what you're seeing is a convergence of deployment, support, and managing service all really coming together. Our customers are really looking for more and more of that one-stop shop, but one offer across the board. So that's what we're seeing. >> But just to add to that, if you our ProSupport Suite, we have SupportAssist, which is our technology behind ProSupport. And the insights that we're generating; we have 55 million devices connected now. So you look at the connectivity, and the value customers are getting out of that, it's amazing. 20 Terabytes of data per day generated out of those devices. It's a lot of information coming in, customers see the value, they connect more, and again, back to your loop that you're talking about the data. >> Well, the security visibility too, just looking at the data, with all those devices now with Windows, and all the new multiple vendors. I mean, you've got all that data. >> That's right. But I think it's the insights, you know, we keep talking about that. Those insights are really helping us leverage that for the customer so they can see in front of them, and I think what we always say internally is "Look, customers aren't looking for a rear-view mirror. "They're looking through the windshield." The more we can use that insight, to help them see when and where they need to get through for their own transformation, is what it's all about. >> And talk to us about how both of you-- Doug, we'll start with you, how have customers been sort of symbiotic to the digital transformation of services in terms of knowing, "We've got to get predictive"? How are they helping you to evolve what you're delivering so that ultimately, services is part of this technology differentiation and product front that Dell Technologies has? >> Yeah, well, you know the history of Dell Technologies is really the core of our foundation. Culturally, for all 140,000 of us, is listening to the customer. And I think that culture has allowed us to adapt and stay close to not only what the customers are telling us, using the insights we're getting back, but knowing where the customers want to head. And it truly is a one-on-one listening to the customers, listening to where their issues are at, then using this technology and their solutions to solve their problems they're bringing up. But I got to tell you, there's not a big hammer that just- one answer for that. Literally, it's how are we helping consumers? How are we helping small, medium, business? Large? All of them have a variation of what's the same, and all of them have a variation of difference as well. >> Alex, how about strategy for a minute, the strategic landscape, how has Dell Technologies Services changed with the vendor landscape? Now you've got multiple vendors, it turns into multiple clouds, multiple clouds with open source software. You've got all kinds of new things emerging. How do you stay on top of it, what's the strategy, what's the long game look like for you guys? >> If I were to summarize in a nutshell, it's software. We're investing quite a bit in software, whether that is within our predictive capabilites, but as well as in deployment services, and Doug alluded to ProManage. So software is a pivotal, key component. So this is how we are approaching from a services standpoint. Whether you talk support, deploy, or manage services, the umbrella around that is really our capability to do the software component. So that's where we are placing our bets, we think that's where the future is. Whether it's SupportAssist, or our ProManager offering. It's all the backbone based on software development. >> And where is, we talked a lot about digital transformation and services, but the people, the people being essential to, we need the technology to do our jobs in any industry. What about skill, upleveling skills? It's great to have all the technology, but we need to have people to be trained, certified, professionals to be able to maximize the value of the services. Doug, go ahead and start, and then Alex, maybe from a strategic perspective, where is that people, cultural part of the services? >> Well, look it's huge. I don't think it's just for services, I hear our customers talk about it as well. And as Alex just mentioned, that software is driving more and more of it. You know, we use a lot of different acronyms and titles to kind of describe it, Digital Transformation, AI, BI. I mean there's all of this, but it is is all summarized in Digital Transformation. And the impact it has on our team members is vast. So look, open communication, yes, it is changing the way we do business, and quite frankly the world's doing business, the simple tasks are getting more and more automated through these insights, and they're going away. Making it easier for our customers means you're not getting as many break/fix calls, you're not getting these transactions. But what we're doing at the same time is we're upscaling the team, telling them where we need to be in the future, helping them with those skillsets, reset. The interesting thing is our team members are seeing the value of it, their jobs actually become more enriched because you're doing higher value things for our customers. But there is a transformation going on and-- >> And Doug, there's cultural changes as well, as we think about how we measure the business, some of the metrics that we look at, legacy metrics versus new metrics, they are different now. How we think about people development is different. So, I think it's a great question, 'cause the actual talent transformation, it's huge. There's short-term impact, and long-term impact. And if you don't plan that right, obviously you can't execute a strategy. >> How should your customers start rethinking about how they're leveraging the services? Because with unified workspace, data center as a service, and now multi-cloud, architecture is really important. Where the data sits, using real-time data you mentioned in software and data, so as they think about now, looking at not resetting, but taking services for their advantage. 'Cause they look at services, they want to be in the right position. It seems like architectures are more important now. Multi-cloud architecture. So, more technical people involved, the roles are changing. What should customers, how should they expect to be thinking about that? >> It's another great question. Well look, I'll let Alex follow up with his thoughts on this one. But I think this is really about us, the customers have to look as a true partnership. What we're really there trying to help them with every single day, is we talk about keeping the solutions in the system running to what they need, what they wanted. But we can also help by helping their staff free up time through the services we have, so they can stay focused on their transformation and provide the value that their teams and customers are looking for. That's really how we see that. So in other words, go into them and say, "Hey look, "we can take some of these tasks off, whether it be the deployment, unified workspace we talked about, you know, that was announced today. These are all about not only providing better technology for their team members and their customers, but then leveraging their time then to go spend it on their transformation. That's really it, quite frankly, simply put. >> Yeah, I would say it depends. Customers want to do a variety of things, so it depends on their business outcomes. So, at the end of the day, I would say, as you look at Dell Technologies, we have all the Lego blocks. You tell us what you're trying to achieve from a business standpoint, and we have the Lego blocks to make it happen. I think we're in a unique position to be able to deliver that valuable proposition to customers. So it's not a one size fits all. >> More data, more workloads, I've heard the term workload mentioned so many times in all my CUBE interviews, we all talk about workloads, but now with IOT and Edge, you're going to see a proliferation of more workloads, some small, some massive, and managing that workload is a huge challenge for organizations. This comes up as the number one issue. How does services play into that, how do you guys make that easier, and I love the operating model of simplicity, but when you guys take that realization into services, what do you guys bake out of that? What comes out of that? >> Yeah, I would say two things. First, the reason that workloads exists is that it's important for the business. So it's got to be up at times, it's got to be 100 percent. It's got to be up and running. We make sure that that happens. Second, if you look at the workloads, they're actually running critical pieces of the business. So we actually assure that we are providing additional value, beyond actually just running infrastructure, actually keeping value and how you should optimize that infrastructure so you can do more with less. >> Can you give, is there an example of a customer? John mentioned B of A was highlighted this morning, Draper was as well, I think some of the Trailblazer Winners were right before we started. A customer that comes to mind that really demonstrates the value that they're getting from Dell Technologies' suite of services? >> Well, look, I think there's a lot of those. But going back to maybe, we talked about the customers today in the keynote speeches that were happening. But look, there's a lot of small and medium businesses that are one, trying to stay with and ahead of technology. Lots of cases actually farther ahead in their transformation. I think I know of one that I recently had a conversation with, a doctor's office had four or five offices in a town here in the US. And they're staying ahead of that. They want us to "Look, we want to buy things that have "easy deployment, easy install/run. We also need you "to come in and help us tell us how to access "and leverage the technology we have better." Running it easier, staying ahead of that digital transformation, and providing really, their virtual CIO, with a technical account manager pulling all that together. You know, all from the storage, their server, their client products coming together; they don't view it as-- the customer's not coming to us and talking to us about individual products. It's not the discussion. What they're saying is "We need to purchase this, "we know we need this solution, we need to have you guys "come and pull it all together, we're looking "for our people to take care of the patients, "get the information that needs to the government, "and get paid, that's it. "And we need you to help us pull all that together." And we're doing that. >> Doug, my final question for you. Michael Dell always talks about this, within the hallway conversations, or on theCUBE. He says, "The best way to create valuable teams is to attract and retain the best talent." How are you guys attracting and retaining the talent, because the workforces are changing, the technology's changing. What are some of the hard problems? Because people love to solve hard problems. What's the pitch for people out there watching, that might want to work in the services group? What's the environment like? How do you attract great people? What kind of problems do they work on? Give a little taste. >> Well, first of all, you know, you have to love and want to take care of our customers, that's really exciting to me, and I know to the other 60,000 team members. That's why we get up for every day. There's an energy that comes from that. I mean, you're getting up and helping our customers whether they're hospitals, small, medium businesses, or consumers. Really being productive in their lives, whatever it may be. So there's an energy that comes from that, I think a lot of people enjoy doing that. It can't be more exciting than that, right? Second of all, career. Just so many aspects to this. You think about digital future technology, we have everything from being able to go out in the field and help our customers to remote, there's just so many different opportunities. And then we also have our employee resource group. So even participating beyond just work, we have the ability to join all of our different resources groups, whether it be Pride, or Veterans, or whatever they may be. People like and see value to just coming into work, but being able to take their passions that they have on the outside and bring it in as well. >> Real citizenship opportunities to bring and contribute back. >> Exactly right, giving back to our communities. very strong, very strong. You know I get an immense amount of pride in the things that I want to contribute to outside of work, and seeing and getting empowered by Dell to do those things. And then constant learning, constant, constant learning. >> I would also hint at a bit of competitive imagination. (Laughing) If you heard any barking during our interviews, speaking of things to do outside of work, we're next to Michael's Angel Paws, which is near and dear to Michael Dell's heart. That's the service dogs that are actually here for all of us to get our dog fixes on. So Doug, Alex, thank you so much for explaining to us the momentum, the excitement behind the digital transformation of Dell Technologies Services. >> Thank you for having us. >> Our pleasure. >> Thank you. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE Live at Dell Technologies World 2019. This is day one of two sets of CUBE coverage. Stick around, our next guest will join us shortly.

>> All right, Cool. We'll go with the first round of this, and we'll see how the central roles perfect. Uh, three, two and one. All right, I'm here with our guests. Chase Phelps, the director of sports science at Stanford University. Chase has an amazing background, and I was fortunate enough to work underneath him at Stanford. Chase is more than versatile. He has a deep understanding in regards to human physiology, but also the technology involved in monitoring athletes and performance in general. So, Chase, I'll let you take it away here, and I can't talk about yourself and the journey that you tell to get to where you are. I personally heard it multiple times. It's quite interesting. And for those listeners out there is going to be a good experience to hear exactly how someone chases esteem, Got to where he is, how the road's not always quite a straight line. >> Well, I appreciate you having me on II. You must be getting the checks in the mail to have that type of intro because that's way over the top on how good I am with my job. But I appreciate it. Um, so I think for me. You know, it started, I think, for a lot of us being in the gym as an athlete, Uh, you know, kind of being one of those guys has gotta work harder. Teo, you know, catch up with the other people who are coming naturally talented. So I started office of your general meathead in the gym in high school, doing all the dumb lab bench incline bench declined, bench checked back into, you know, all the flies, you, Khun Dio, and kind of started to figure out that, ah, I needed, you know, um or scientific way, I guess toe train myself and started out going to a velocity sports informants and, you know, one of those big kind of box performance gyms and got hooked up really, really lucky. Got hooked up with some people who at the time, I didn't know where were ahead of the game, but kind of started giving me the wise behind, you know, all the things I was doing in the gym and sort of kind of carbon that path for laying the foundation. So to say so I went to Undergrad, play the cross in college, Um, and they're so science piece started the internships to be a traditional sec coach on the floor, huh? I did. Let's see. Old Dominion. Radford, Virginia Attack. I AMG performance. Um, you know, just kind of laying the coaching trenches, laying down in the trenches, trying tow, kind of get myself the experience necessary to move ahead of Attritional SEC coach. So I got really lucky and that I got a job at Hampton University is an assistant. And within about seven months of being there, the director at the time up and left and they had nobody to help out with football, they have to take over. And really at an age that was way too young for me to be in that role, and so that was kind of my first, you know, probably fire experience, being twenty three years old, heading up, you know, the one double a football for him, still division one football team where I >> it >> was pretty pretty novice at the time. And while I didn't mess anything up to bad, it was definitely I would change a lot of what I did at the time. So I looked back on an experience that was extremely valuable. But from there, I actually had a stent where I was unemployed. So ah, little life lesson is, I took somebody's word on a job without having it written out and quit my job at Hampton, thinking I had this position set up and literally it fell through. The guy was like, Hey, listen, it's not gonna happen. I don't know what to tell you. I'm really sorry. So for seven months, I worked at local gyms, private personal training, training athletes on the side. You're basically doing anything I needed to do. Teo maintain coaching, but also keeping income going. Ah, and it's kind of funny because a lot of people don't appreciate that type of setting and the personal training. You're either strength coach. It's not personal training, you know. And, ah, a lot of the stuff that I do now, I still you know, I remember picking out because I was working with the client with rheumatoid arthritis, right? So, like your ability to to regress and a purple issues exercise selections for somebody who's sixty years old and is not very mobile translates very well to return to play in an athlete who just had maybe on a C L surgery on. So I looked back on that time is kind of a weird one in my life, but it was extremely valuable, you know, and my experiences. So I got really lucky. And the networking piece fell together and ended up working with the Naval Special Operations and kind of finding a role in the humor for men's branch. There, Bro is there for a little over three years. I >> it >> was just incredibly lucky to work with some of the people there, Mark Stevenson and and a lot of other guys who are still working there. They're still there now, but they're just they're pushing the field for doing a lot of things behind the scenes that I think really kind of kicked off the sports science. See Dick in the in the U. S and the last, you know, six to eight years on DH. So I was really fortunate toe kind of diversify. My experiences there really start looking at performance and training. I don't want to say like that buzzword of holistic, but just how my diversifying my ability to understand which discipline is doing, whether it's a mental performance coach, our nutritionist or sex, our physical therapist. But how can I better understand those fields, too? Then, you know, make sure that everything I'm doing is complimenting what they're doing on DH. So I was able to land the job at Stanford initially just to run the sports science department. But I also got a little coaching duties. On the side is I work with men soccer. So it's been, Ah, it's been all over the place, you know, traditionally in athletics, but, you know, a little bit of Gen file here. Besides, well, >> so Chase bast fully passed over Hiss lacrosse career, right? And how many was that? Multi time All America. Is that correct? >> I had a couple of years where else? Pretty successful. So, uh, >> and I think that's extremely important to highlight because being an athlete, you deal with all these departments firsthand. You see it from their perspective. And so one thing that Chase has really taught me, I was going forward learning about how you contain to challenge yourself, to put yourself into positions that other people are end. And how do you then think about your actions and what you're going to do as a sports scientist in regard to how and not on ly influences the athlete but the coaches and other staff around him and being an athlete, you firsthand get to experience how it is to have someone else trying to intervene on your daily routine. And that's also mention that Chase is now someone who on what level of ju jitsu he's in. But I know he's tough enough to beat the daylights out of me. And that's something as well has taught me. Is that put yourself in situations where you have to be a beginner again and challenge yourself to have tto learn from Square one. We get caught in these ruts of progress, progress, progress. You go from a beginner. When you first learned how to swing a baseball bat to now you're planned higher level travelling. Baseball is part of your life for myself. Basketball, the chase has taught me, is really embrace those opportunities of struggle and whatever way that comes in its shape and form and put you in those positions. So you have the ability to actually learn from that. And now mention that chase in regards to beat an athlete I think there's many things that we overlook as coaches. We apply the idea of an external load, right. We give them sets and wraps and weights and we write out these long workout for next six months what someone was going to dio. We can't predict the internal load and be an athlete. You understand how it is to not sleep, how it is to maybe stay out a little too late with some of your friends, but how that affects you in regards and athletic setting to reach the goals that you want to reach. So I want to dive in the topic a little bit about internal versus external load. That's something that you really challenged myself to learn about when I was with you. We talked about that in regards to H R V sleep and all the above said, I want to hear a little bit about your take on internal versus external load. What specifically is at turns >> out someone, he said, is being an athlete. I think that goes, You know, it's It's almost like every year that you are in the field. You separate yourself from what it feels like to go through the workouts and the daily grind. So to say right, it's really easy to write up a bard and have no thought process about how somebody feels on day six of a week where they've been pulling all day school two and a half hour, three hour practice our weights and you're like, Oh, man, we got a great dynamic effort. Lower body session finished office. Um, you know, if our glory body squats like you know it's It's just really easy to forget how how things can accumulate and how you know you're just trying to kind of that times get through it all and you head above water. Whereas we're thinking about optimizing, for they may be thinking about Hey, I just need to know what my head down and get through today. So I think it was a great point. But I think going on to the external love peace, obviously the U. S. In the last, you know, six, seventy nine years has exploded trying to catch up, maybe with Australian, The Europe of the world have been, um, really kind on the forefront of this, uh, objective collection of needs analysis for sport. You know, whether that's an external load of what they're doing, the mechanical demands of the sports. So how far they're running? What are the physical characteristics that you see? See environmental capabilities, as in, you know, beads with velocities, where they simply gotta Iran hominy times that they're going to change direction, really understanding the demands of the sport versus the internal loading piece, which you're going to be Howard, these individuals responding to those demands and I think the key word there being individual, we know that certain athletes are always going to be pushed and filtered into sports that there, uh, naturally, good at right. Like, I think we all tend a favor, things that we've been successful at. And as we kind of go up through our broken physical education system, we haven't done a really good job. I think in our country of kind of diversifying and scaling appropriate levels to make sure people are developing and multiple ways we kind of just like, Oh, you're good at this sport. Keep at it. You suck. You're out on. And I think if we were to kind of cater developmental, developmentally appropriate skill acquisition techniques and I'm stealing all this from a classmate of mine, Peter Bergen City proud, I think a better job of scaling, you know, developmental levels. I think you would see Maur athletes come out of that. That would be successful instead of just they only go on the tall guy put him under the basket. Um, you know, you would be able to develop more skills, but back to the internal load piece on understanding that, like I work with Ben Soccer Max, we're talking about this maybe your ago. I have a guy who logged twenty thousand meters in a playoff game last year, You know, that's over twelve and a half >> miles on run game. And he >> had played a game two days earlier and had been practicing for four months. And it comes to the question of like, How does somebody do that? Do that? Do you train them to do that? Do they just follow the program and all of us and they could do that. Or did there, I guess, internal demands to the sport over time. It took years. It took decades and in my opinion, took that after we to play the sport of high level, you know, for ten plus years to be able to get that cardiac adaptation of peripheral ability to be so efficient that they can run and change and cutting jump a tte that intensity. And so an athlete like that that that internal load, you know, they're going to be very, very effective and mobilizing energy. They're going to be very good of providing blood and oxygen to the to the outside of the body, whereas, you know, you take, not tow it, almost four. But like softball, that's a completely different athlete. And so if you were to ask them to have, ah, Despaigne similar demands, we know that internal load would be different. They're gonna have an inefficiency that, uh, you know what, I've election, Amy. A struggle to match the requirements of work or mechanical load that you're placing upon the athletes. So I think you know, it's really important as you start to look at that internal versus external. The external is critical, I think, on a lot of sports were just now identifying what is necessary to be successful on the field as and what they're doing. So you can start it that, you know, backwards, design and work. Your program to say here is ultimately what they have to be able to do. This is a worst case scenario on the field. This is how we should cater our return to play protocols so that we know we're working towards ultimately the ideal player. And that's sports and >> interesting. Yeah, not to cut you off. I did make some clarity here in regards to internal versus external loads. We talked about external load. We're talking about the amount of work someone actually does. Yes. So the amount of weight being lifted, how fast someone's running, how many pages someone can read, Right? And we end the guards, student, one intern and what side? Go ahead. >> It's really what is happening. What are you doing? What? How much of something? >> Something you're applying to the body. And then the internal load is the physiological changes that take place. And so the most basic concept is Hey, we're going to give you a weight program. We're gonna lift X amount of weight for X amount of days with the external load, intending to change the internal environment to grow muscle. And then the more muscle you grow, the more internal load you can handle. So you're adaptive capacity, that big bucket of how much you can handle a life. You become very efficient at handling that consistent external load and you increase your ability, whether it be efficiently or the magnitude. Insides that bucket to handle. A larger, I guess, external load in regards to having a larger internal capacity. And so what you're talking about is when our buck it's very specific Say we're playing soccer and we changed, too, you know, let's say tennis or in your case, saw Hall. You mentioned the softball player would struggle with soccer, and the soccer player would struggle with tennis because those external loads are so different than the internal capabilities of that individual. Is that correct? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think I think the higher level you go you definitely see that specificity of coordinated skills really kind of become a guest. Very nish. And what you typically say and I actually kind of think it's funny because I've said it. So then guilty as charged is that you'll look at a soccer player, you know, somebody who can play at the highest level and is sprinting doing all these different, you know, athletic exercises and then we'll be like, Man, they're bad athlete. They can't skip or look at that spa product. It's terrible and you know, you kind of take a step back and you're like, was the gold toe squatters, the gold toe score goals and play soccer? Um, and then some, you know, may argue. It will, you know, had the longevity of peace or they're gonna be in a more front injury, all that on and at the same time. And I think about that subconscious confidence when you put some money in a gym and a, you know, a new environment where they may not have done these things. They're very aware they're consciously in confident. They're sitting there going, I >> suck at this >> and they overthink it, right, and then you ask him to, like, go out on the field and kick a ball around, and they're doing these things. They're changing direction, which is basically a squat with shen angles changed. Uh, yeah, you know these things fluently without even thinking about it. So it's like their ability is there. It's just not in the right contact. >> Interesting. Yes, they bring up the concept of selling, being consciously aware, right? So they might be in a nervous kind of state. They're not familiar with the weight room, and that actually bring some level anxiety, possibly that true. And that itself may make the weight room instead of ah, use dresser, which is something very positive. It might be a distress, sir, and so they see that waiting is negative. And so now they're nervous toe workout and they have to work out, which makes the internal load even larger. So make this environment that kind of gets magnified. In regards to that. What other factors influence your internal load? Something I mentioned was that stress and obviously their external stressors, especially at Stanford, work very intelligent students who are having to go through rigorous testing in school. And it's a very competitive environment, not just athletically, but, um, you know, the education side as well through those stressors and past internal load. And if it does, how does that influenced the amount? External load? As a coach, you might provide? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think it's always going to be multispectral. It's always going to be. It depends on who's who's the athlete. What's their background? And the supporter? The activity. You're asking to dio, um, the daily life of the twenty two hours that they're not with you. Are they hydrated? Are they eating properly? They fuelling for adequate activity. Are they getting enough sleep? Are they, you know, have a test for their psychosocial factors at play? Like their girlfriend or boyfriend just broke up with him. And I think all those things obviously have an impact Has been Aton and ton of focus placed on this type of, I guess, capturing that whole athlete. Whereas maybe, you know, years ago, you would look at tonnage and now people will look tonnage. And what that stress load is, what that academic load is Because, you know, research is coming out. Now that we know that these types of overloaded stressors and stresses the same stress of you know makes you resilient can break you down. So it's really the improper dozing and inability to cope with that load, and that's dressed, it creates the problems. But, um, you know, you look at athletes who are an exam week, there's research talking about that people hell less efficiently. They have immune issues. So you're seeing people get sick. You're seeing that inability to adapt and cope with the demands that are placed on him, being significantly altered by some other type of factor outside of a weight room or a field. Um, you know, I think the the fact that the collegiate environment is being more aware to that and teams they're trying to push practice in the morning. A little later, they're tryingto manipulate schedules so that its aren't just running straight from class. But they have a little time between do get some type of snack and to some moment to themselves toe. Take a couple of rest before they go out on the flip side, right after practice. Are they running directly into Ah, you know, a test or something? Or are they actually will have a little moments of themselves where they can kind of down, regulate, take everything in and then move on? I think that those types of things, well or not, massive are significant because they happened ten to twenty times every day over the span of weeks in years. And that's really the problems, that chronic buildup of a over activated, sympathetic response that maybe exacerbated by an athletes Taipei, their personalities or type a person. Yeah. Hey, I'm driven. I'm a pi performer. This is what I do, or maybe some of the lifestyle stuff. So maybe that there's somebody who you know is just pumping refined sugars and other body and creating a flux and blood sugar regulation that again mobilizes cortisol, a sympathetic response. And next thing you know, you've just in the span of three hours tagged on six different things, albeit slightly different, that had the same outcome on the system. So that internal response becomes very, very sensitive. Teo, everything you're doing because it's that chronic build up that's really taken its toll on it. >> Interesting. So he bring up the idea of the sympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system being broken down. I guess being partnered with, I should say with the parasympathetic nervous system, right, that makes up your autonomic nervous systems. So for those you're not familiar. Sympathetic nervous systems, your fighter flight. It mobilizes energy. It's looked at to be very important for survival. If we saw a lion during evolutionary times would help us increase our heart rate, Increased auction supply, mobilized energy so we could run away from a lion. But then we had the parasympathetic aspect. That branch would help regulate rest. And I just kind of the repair and rebuild process. Now, with that, you mentioned the hyperactivity of the sympathetic nervous system. Now, does this get out of whack? Sometimes if you're an athlete, your individual were chronically stressed. And if so, does that affect some of your endocrinology? So how your body responds? And what kind of tips can you have No muse with your athletes or yourself to get yourself back into a parasympathetic state? Yes, >> that's a great point. I think the and not tow to correct you. I think what you're saying is absolutely right. I think the key is, is not constantly counter act sympathetic, but is to bring the body back into a more balanced ability to appropriately turn on sympathetic into appropriately eternal in Paris. Sympathetic and what you typically see, and I said it so I think you're totally right, is sympathetic, does become the primary driver, but it isn't all about just turning on sympathetic. It's it's having the ability to use both when you need it. And I think a lot of times the door or the window to that is to drive parasympathetic activity on so that it can kind of restore itself. Ah, and then the goal. Once you're kind of an ability where you have a little bit more of stability and that is, then tow, have access to both. >> So you talk to me about me. Interrupt chase. But this is something to remind me completely where, if someone is chronically sympathetic, let's say they're in a game situation. This can goes back. That being stressed out, they might have hyperactivity, sympathetic nervous system and correct if I'm wrong, this decentralize is sorry. Desensitize is the frontal cortex and reduces some individuals ability to make decisions, especially when fatigue begins to set in. Because you have multiple areas of stress coming to body fatigue, the actual stress emotional of the situation and in the person's internal Billy to regulate that, that's something you talking to me about? Spoken with me about while Stanford. I found that topic to be extremely interesting and do the fact that it's completely universal. Whether you're an athlete or your individual going in for a job interview, they kind of fall under the same umbrella. Is this the case? >> Yes, excuse me. So I think ultimately it's a fine line, right? So I think the sympathetic nervous system actually has been shown to enhance some cognitive activities, right? So it does increase that acute ability, toe recall some information and at the same time and over driven response of it can almost shut everything down. And that's where you see people kind of like getting up hyperventilating and not being able to perform and really kind of altering some type of, um, thoughtful, logical, rational action. So I think it comes down to two primary things. It's a primary and secondary appraisal, and this is a psychology based concept. But I think it applies basically everything in performance and primary, the athlete, the person. Whoever is going to say what is happening, and this is subconscious and happening in different aspects of the Iranian or not I fell. Missed what? Your body goes, What's? What is this? Right? So I looked at the analogy of you walk into a bar. All right, You scan the bar, You have a very, very fast Ah, action arms. Excuse me? Decision about what is in that bar. Is that a threat? Do you see a bunch of hell's angels with guns and, you know, baseball bats sitting there? Or do you see a bunch of friends? Right, So and then it's that same split. Second, a secondary appraisal happens to the primary. That's secondary being. Do I have the resources to cope with this? And that is really what dictates what type of response and house is going to send. Oh, are the brain will send to the body to stimulate what side of the annulment? Nervous system. Right. So if I walk in, I say what? I don't like this. Tio. Hey, I've been in this scenario before. It didn't go well. That's when that sympathetic sent a kick on because I got to get out of here verses. I walk into that same place. It's a bunch of friends, You know, It's my old buddy from college. You're gonna have a completely different mobilization of your transmitters of hormones. Because of your perception of the stressor is completely different. And you mentioned you stress distress. And I think that that's the case for everything, because, uh, not to go on a rant. But if you if you take an athlete who loves running, that stress of running is completely different than an athlete who doesn't like running right. So their perception of an activity, albeit the same activity, will have a different psycho physiological manifestation of stress or load on the body. And so I think, as we talk about mental toughness with our athlete, even all of that ultimately comes down to have you put them in such situations to prepare them, have confidence in them. And that's what's going to dictate some of these positive body responses that you'll see because they'll walk up to that playing go. Yep. Done this a million times, and that is where you kind of have that mental resilience versus I don't know what's gonna happen. I've never done this before. If I miss, it's going to be the game. Aunt. I think when we talk about all of performance in psychology and physiology. It's so intertwined you cannot separate them, and we like to separate things we like to have absolute. We like to wear a monitor on a wrist or a chest that tells us we're tired or that tells us we've been too stressed. But the reality is, is that the individual differences in perception of stress and my ability, my body's ability to adapt to that stress based on what type of internal environment is kind of walking around twenty four hours a day is going to dictate everything. And that's why it's really tough and in a team environment for us to just blast everybody and say We're gonna stress, you know, we're going to internal load monitoring by H. R. V. Well, that's fantastic and I think there's there's marriage of that. So I'm not saying there isn't what. You better make sure you know a lot about your athletes. You better make sure you have the time to learn about their personalities, how they handle things, What type of family experiences, a fat, what type of things go into them making decisions about what they're experiencing. >> Gotcha. So that I couldn't agree more. Yeah, that's beautifully said one things you mentioned. There was the idea of HRT, but also the idea of perception. So H R v being a reflection on Amit nervous system and compared to your own baseline when your H R V numbers lower means you have less variability that, essentially inferring a higher level of sympathetic drive when you're HIV is higher, infers a more balanced eight or more parasympathetic state, essentially less sympathetic, right? Right. And so we start using H R V, and we talk about that as an internal tool. They also mentioned the idea ofthe having individuals be in situations that are similar to that of sport. Do you think there's a time and place for real time H R V feedback and HIV training? And would you possibly put someone in a situation where they're trying to score that goal? Maybe you fatigued them with, say, a sled push or prowler push and then you have there HIV tank. And they have to perform a difficult technical task in attempt to have them auto regulate that H R V. So they can perform that task successfully, making training and skill development much more specific and begin to messed together. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's biofeedback. Wanna one, right? That's that's ah, thought technology, heart, math. All those companies out there using that with Forman psychologists to see how people a handle the stressors implied on them. But how did they bounce back? So the military has been doing this for years and live monitoring H R V on some of the operators and then watching them perform. You know, they're training, going through selection and training bases where they have Tio ah, handle extremely dynamic and challenging environments where they're under watch, their being scrutinised every step of the way. And so what we've actually seen is that people who on average, you know it's not. There's anomalies of force. People who take the hit right, so you'll see a drop in H R B or increasing sympathetic tone. They will actually bounce back, though, so having a stressor impact your your your body is is normal. But the ability to rebound and kind of come back to those norms within a relatively quick period of time is what is critical for high performance. You know, they talked about having a five minute or a three hundred feet average prior to that activity to get a baseline. What we found in some of the research coming out now you can actually probably cut it down to one two, three minutes. Right? So it becomes much more, I guess. Logistically feasible. Tohave guys sit around for one to three minutes, kind of collect that boarding for baseline and then go about their day. And that's really critical to get that that daily baseline. Because as we talked about, if you're on day six of AH long week, your body is functioning and flowing. Ah, and kind of repair mode. It's trying to keep up with what you've been putting it through. So each day that you wake up, you are gonna be slightly different than what you do where for. So it's not an apples, apples. You gotta look at your ability to flux in that Alice static load and your body's proactive decision making to try and match what it was doing in the prior day's training. Evolution >> Dacha. So H r v itself. I refer to the check engine light because it doesn't necessarily come from one area and come from emotional you, Khun, Stub your toe. You can have a lower H R V. And some of the things I've been reading about lately and talking to you about office, podcast or text message and kindly enough, you respond to my random texts at nine thirty at night with a slew of articles and ten questions, has been a nutritional side right and the idea of low level systemic inflammation or inadequate nutrition. What I mean by that is, I will put in food into her body under the assumption that this is going to give us a positive effect. Really. Sometimes the food that we put into our body are causing a stressor on our system, because either, eh, they're so foreign to us in regards to weigh their process or be too simple sugars. And them and I mean simple in terms of your eating a fruit loop have an effect on our body that can take us down a road that necessarily isn't positive for adaptation. And just like H. R. V. Is affected by your psychological perception, I've been read a little bit about H. R V is a kind of systemic monitor and how it could be influenced by nutrition in regards that nutritional aspect. I know we've talked a little bit about biomarkers and some of the diving deep into internal medicine and understanding that our body is very complex. It's made of of all these subsystems and how one subsystem acts might affect how another subsystem acts. And as we gain these risk factors of an adequate nutrients status, our overall risk profile increases and the idea that we might have an emergent pattern in terms of illness manifests increases. So I want to hear some of your thoughts on some of the internal medicine where that's going in regards to bio markers for athletics, human performance and just general wellness. I know you're not a physician and you're not ordering bloodwork and diagnosing off blood work. But being a sports scientist, I do think it's important to appreciate and understand some of these concepts, and you have a great indepth knowledge in this area. So I love to hear a little more about it. >> Yeah, no, I think that's an area and by no means a mine expert, right? I just read a lot of things and copy what other people say so I have to always say that. No, that's what we always hang her hat on is that if you go through the research, you're basically taking somebody else's thoughts interpreting to your own. So my experiences with this, our personal and what I've seen in a professional setting and all kind of touched on the personal piece because I think you know, as we talked about being an athlete and understanding what people go through, our own experiences can drive a lot of how we make decisions with their athletes or are clients or whoever working with and that basically, for twenty five years of my life I've been on some form of allergy medicine allergies, shot decongestant Z Pac to get rid of a sinus infection, you name it. I had, I had and I had multiple sci affections every year and not one time. I want your nose and throat, Doctor Otto. You know, allergy specialists now, one time to never anyone ever bring up what you're putting in your body. And you know, it took you know, I went toe doctor Dima Val seminar last summer and it took ah, somebody while he's very good, but it took somebody to kind of like, say, Hey, man, like it's not just isolating the symptom and given you an anti histamine or something like that, you got to think that you're in a systemic state of inadequacy. Your body doesn't have the ability to recognize normal nutrients as you eat things. But then also, it doesn't have the ability to recognize, um, some of the I guess the things that are supposed to be normal now become pathological. And it's just complete dysfunctional cycle. And so for me, I literally just He said, Hey, do me a favor. Stop eating dairy. Okay? Yeah, I love cheese, but we'll do that. And I literally and within three to four days, every single allergies symptom. I had one away. I haven't had any issues for seven and a half months. While legal thing, >> I >> haven't had any issues. Haven't got sick once. And it was just one thing come to find out. I have a lactose allergy. And not only does it didn't affect me like g I distress, but it effects chronic states of allergies. So my body was perceiving things as, ah, the enemy and the immune system was essentially creating that inflammatory response to deal with them s So I think that first and foremost, I started just looking at Maybe people are eating things that they may have a low grade flamer. Inflammatory response. Tio, Um, I was taking and sets staking insides like there were Andy since I was sixteen years old. You know, being an athlete, you get off him a practice, your knees hurt, ankle hurts. Whatever happens, you know, you just take him so that you can, um >> you know, keep >> on going toe to practice. The next day, um, I was taking CPAC's >> is >> taking prednisone. All these things basically put my spotty in a state of in a state of shock to a point where it can actually regulate normal. >> So just take that >> into my work and special environment. And we have athletes who were under that significant academic stress, social stress and the physical stress. Well, we also see is they're just like me. And then they were taken and said they were taken. You know, prednisone. They're taking quarter to steroids for asthma, exercise induced asthma. They were taking all these things that basically is driving the body into a state of alarm where it doesn't have a normalcy to it. So we're not seeing the immune system actually do its job. We're seeing chronic sympathetic response basically to everything that's being put into the body. So with that low grade inflammation that's happening over weeks, months, years, you get that inability to handle external loads, then that's where than internal load becomes so critical. But what once is, maybe a resilient person now they're getting the sniffles every three weeks now they're walking around with some type of tell, ephemeral and an itis. Ah, no. I think that we so easily look at Oh, they landed on it funny and practice. Oh, they took a bump or a bruise for somebody. But maybe that is exacerbated. Or maybe that's highly sensitive due to the fact that the body isn't able to function under normal circumstances. >> No, that's there's a lot of topics in that one dive into you. Um, I guess what is immediate topics that's most applicable for individuals, the idea of in said's and how? I mean, when I was in ah, middle school, I must have taken maybe six, four, five before a game when I was playing, and it felt nothing. Elements. I can only imagine what that's doing to my internal, You know, my, my style making my gastric system and how much to chewed up. Yeah, that's a lot of information that's come out regarding tendon healing and the adaptations of it, um, you've taught me well, I think the first one to bring this to my attention on some of the detriments of and said itself and some of the alternative we could possibly have, such as your human and things that don't necessarily tear our system up. Um, you give any thoughts on that and how that might play a role than Okay. We have this functional medicine world. Now, how do we apply that into, you know, physical therapy. And if we're trying to have ten and adaptations in regards to Isometrics, you might be doing them to increase longevity and reduced to an apathy or for film someone up with insides. Are we really getting the bang for the buck we want to get or we just causing more harm than good? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think you know, you said it right there and that. Are you taking that risk reward on using that, like, a short term? Ah, you know that hill, Teo, is it overriding what you truly want in the long term? Okay, so we talked about adaptation you mentioned Well, we've seen that and sides actually have. Ah, a destruction of satellite cells. So when you're normally building muscle and you're having some of these repair sells, Memento help stimulate regeneration and says, Well, actually blunt that response to Seo X one and two being the primary enzymes associated with that, we'll actually get shut down. Ah, And when they dio, you're literally stopping your body from adapting. Growing. So I talked to my soccer team all the time about I'm like, does it. You guys, You want you're wearing the sleepless shirts. You want to fill those things out? Let's not wait from what already isn't there, you know? And I think you know when we start looking at As you mentioned it, healing in the early stage returned to play. And now I'm never going to say, Hey, you know, you shouldn't do that. That's always up to the doctors and the medical professionals. But I think that there is lack of thought for our long term. Ah, mala dictations. So you mentioned, do we alter college and proliferation for the expense of just taking down some swelling and irritation? Maybe that paper's the response can be better handled by Tylenol or whatever else somebody thinks because I think it's critical. Especially, you know, you see the two different primary types intelligent Type one and Type three. They've seen that there is a blunted response and how that tendon regenerates. And so I think, you know, little things like that. Those conversations you have with your athletic trainer or your doctor and be like, Hey, is this absolutely necessary? I'm not questioning your rationale. But does this athlete need that? Or is there something else we can do? Is going to make sure that when I am doing the Afar or whatever before ISOs to maximize ah tended thickness or tendon restructuring or whatever I'm doing. Are we going to the baby? Out with the bath water? Are we gonna hurt something, You know, for the expense of you know what's easy and what we know from a Western medical model. >> Yeah, that's it. Very interesting moment. Thanks. By the way, I wanna clarify For those not familiar with terminology and says or non sorry, chase, I letyou go ahead there up the real quick and sense of things like ibuprofen and Advil around non steroidal anti inflammatory. Um, what's the d stand for? I'm forgetting right now. Feels stupid. Now draw. Go. Okay. There you go. Yeah, perfect things like ibuprofen and no Advil. I should take like six angel's before I play basketball. Because when it came out, I knew no better. It made me feel better and take more than barrier against coming out that we're really tearing up our system. What's interesting is we look at some of the inflammation studies. You look at older adults. It brings up the idea that as we age, we get in such an inflammatory state. We're taking things like insects, which are known to possibly reduce adaptation shins. And individuals were healthy. It actually increases muscle growth and some of the older adults because their level of inflammation, it's so high systemically that taking something as like an insider Advil, which we think is bad, actually increases adaptation. And they just show I just read a paper. Probably thirty men, too. For this that showed Curcumin has a potential effects to do the same, which might be a healthier alternative to end, says regards to reducing inflammation.

>> Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE covering Boomi World 2018. Brought to you by Dell Boomi. >> Good evening, welcome back to theCUBE. I'm Lisa Martin, live from Las Vegas at Boomi World '18. Been here all day talking with Dell Technology CEO, Michael Dell, to Dell Boomi execs, customers. We're joined by a couple of gentlemen now, one is a customer of Dell Boomi, that's Peter de Lange, from Digital Angel, the CEO and co-founder, welcome, and Mike Veldhuis, co-founder of Nalta, which is their transformation partner. Guys, thanks so much for joining me on theCUBE this afternoon. >> You're welcome. >> You're welcome. >> So, I first saw you this morning on stage, saw you accepting your award. This was Dell Boomi's first time honoring and recognizing customers so congratulations on being the winner of the Emerging Technology Award, but let's start by just giving our viewers an idea of, we'll start Mike, with you, Nalta, as a Boomi partner. >> Yup. >> Tell us a little bit about Nalta. What do you guys do, what makes you unique, where are you based? >> Well, first of all, we are from Holland. You know, so, for us it's great to be in Vegas, great to be in the U.S. and tell our story over here. We started in the Netherlands, in 2000. We're not a very big company compared to many large U.S. companies. We're a team of 60 people, and we started as an infrastructure company in 2000, already a Dell partner and we had a software department as well as software company and what's so cool about I.O.T. and the stuff we build nowadays is that we combine those two disciplines integrate I.T. platforms like we did for Digital Angel. >> So let's talk about Digital Angel. Thank you, Mike. First of all, I love the name, there's a lot of significance to that. We talked about award winner for Dell Boomi. Tell us a little bit about Digital Angel. What was the genesis of creating it not so long ago? >> Well, um, first thing was, if you're looking at what's happening in healthcare, one thing that's really important is getting qualified caregivers, because there's a big shortage on that. Next to that, if you look at the development of the baby boomers, the older or the seniors are, the group is growing, and on the other hand, the caregivers are less available. So how can we match that? So we need new technology. The first question was, or the main question, can we connect smart healthcare products to the internet? And maybe with those products we can help the healthcare sector. >> Give me an example of some of those products that you're talking about. >> The first product we have connected to our platform is a smart mattress. >> A smart mattress? >> Yeah, it's embedded with light sensors and it measures, for example, the way a person lies on a mattress, but it also measures the heartbeats, breathing rates, all those data variables. >> Wow. That's pretty cool, smart mattress. So, you had this idea, really kind of nothing in the Netherlands, or even here in the U.S. at the time, but healthcare is one of those industries that obviously, we're talking about life or death situations. There are so many devices that are not connected, and people can lose their lives as a result. So, walk us through this concept of a smart mattress and how you're working with manufacturers to build that and then we'll get to how you're working on transforming with Nalta. >> Yeah, no problem. Well, starting off from the question, can we connect, yes we can. Next of the factors is we need a platform to land all the data in. We need customers like manufacturers because they must produce products that are able to generate data. So the first one was the mattress, the next one is a bed, a wheelchair, so we already have several products live within approx situation. That's where we got off, yeah. >> So Mike, talk to us about when you first started engaging with Digital Angel. A presumably unique opportunity to really transform an industry, save lives, talk to us a little bit about when you guys got together to really take this idea and really help it grow and help transform an industry. >> First of all, for us, it's wonderful to work on such a huge case. Like you said, you're potentially saving lives and I.T., sometimes, is so I.T.-ish. You're talking about technology, tools, applications, technicians, engineers, it's all in that I.T. level, and that's perfectly fine. They're solving problems and challenges. But, talking about a business case or business itself is so energizing because you can actually tap into a customer's needs and help them find solutions for the challenges they have. And in this case, we are talking about I.O.T., internet of things, which is a little vague. Digital transformation is even vaguer. >> Right. >> So when Digital Angel approached us with this, on first sight, very simple need, we want to connect a mattress or a device to a platform to present the data and the insights of this device to the end customer in favor of the patient, it's our job to start questions, questioning, and listen and put it on paper, write user stories, get a clear picture of what the actual need is. Then from that, we build our first project and our first product, and eventually the first platform. That became the Digital Angel platform itself. >> And you've done this in a very short period of time. >> True. >> Uh, yeah. I think the, >> Eight months? >> No, no, no. It was faster. The first version was within seven months. >> Wow. Seven months. >> Yeah, and that's the beauty of if you can cooperate with people with knowledge like Nalta in a partnership, but also the availability of components like Dell Boomi. >> Yeah. >> So you can fasten up the process to create new things and that's really important to get much further and get things done. >> So let's unpack that a little bit more. Dell Boomi's platform as kind of a fueler, maybe some power to your platform? >> Mhmm. >> Talk to us about the integration, how you're using it specifically and what some of the new things that they announced this week, how does that excite you about being able to grow your business? >> Well, the thing is, and that's what Mike explained, is listen to the needs. So, we have needs as a company, Digital Angel, next to the fact that patients also have needs. How can we translate that into technology? So, the question we asked Mike, or Nalta, we must have a platform that is able to be completely flexible, so that's the basic, it must be able to do the analytics, if necessary. There's a long list of things we have to have within the platform and then, it's Nalta who is answering that question. >> Yeah, we translate it into a Boomi solution. And I think what's innovative, we just came out of a breakout session and one of the questions we got we were telling the Digital Angel Story and our story, how we work with customers, where does Boomi fit in? Does it come at last, what is the reason you put Boomi into the solution, just for moving data from point A to point B? The answer to that is that we have Boomi at the core of the design itself, so we start with Boomi, it's not an afterthought, it's not that we have a solution an application and now all of a sudden we have to tie it into a different ecosystem. We start with Boomi, and that's very powerful because we have all the time and flexibility to choose the best of great solutions around this Boomi solution, and that's what we've done. >> So, looking at this unique opportunity, to be able to transform average, everyday hospital products into smart devices that can actually influence the pace of care, the treatment of care, innovation. That's pretty remarkable. I'd love to understand, Peter, from your perspective, what are some of the actual results that you're starting to see maybe in the Netherlands. >> Yeah. >> You mentioned, I think before we went live that you're starting to come over here. Give us some of those tangible nuggets that you're like, this is why we're doing this, this is why we're helping these organizations connect. >> By having the platform and connecting all of those products, you have to know several things. When you are visiting healthcare institutes, one of the things is, we are using networks on 165 apps already, so we need another one. We already use I.T. related products, so, I'm busy with a patient and I have to scribe from one app to the other to get my information, but the thing I see is single information, because I can see the blood-pressure or the heartbeat or something like that. So if it's possible, can we combine that? So in the back end we can combine all the data of the different products and it enables us not only in the background, but also on the front end to have one user interface, so we don't need all the 165 apps. So we are creating time. >> Creating time? >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> That's really interesting, and with that time, as a caregiver, because we know there's a shortage on caregivers, the right care at the right moment, to the right person can be given, and that's one of the goals we have and can already see as a result. We can also calculate saving, but the most important thing for us as the company, we want to improve the quality of life and not so much talk about savings. One of them is, the first digital product we've created, based on the data, saves 6000 dollars a year, for one digital product, for one patient. So that's in numbers. That's results. That's real, real results. >> I've never heard anybody talk about a business outcome as creating time. (laughter) >> But, in healthcare, we've talked about that a number of times, it's essential. So, last question, Peter, for you. You've mentioned expanding to the U.S., because of the things I find shocking in 2018 almost 2019 is you have a loved one who is in the hospital and there are so many people that come in to do rounds and they all have devices and nothing is connected. How are you going to help us in the U.S. to resolve that problem with Digital Angel? >> I can answer that with another example. One of the things was, if we are able to see how a person lies on his bed, and the care institute has a protocol, and the protocol says, you have to turn these patients each and every three hours, what we did know in total 30 to 50 percent of the people turn around themselves during the night. So you don't have to turn them. >> Interesting. >> Even if you turn them, the chance of example, pressure sores, is much higher. >> Really? >> Yeah. 30 to 50 percent. >> Wow. All of this by evaluating data. Well, gentlemen, I wish we had more time it's such an interesting use-case. Peter, congratulations on the award, Mike you as well. >> Thank you very much >> Thanks so much for stopping by theCUBE and talking to us about how you guys are helping to transform an industry. >> Thank you very much, for the opportunity >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin. Stick around John Ferger and I will be back with our show wrap in just a short minute. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas! It's theCUBE! Covering Dell Technologies World 2018, brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Dell Technologies World. I'm Lisa Martin and you might notice some different kind of guests on the program right now. We are live in Las Vegas, day three of Dell Technologies World. We've had lots of great conversations with technologists from many, many companies. But, one of the cool things that's here, if you've heard any dogs barking in the background during any of our segments, there is Michael's Angel Paws actually right next to our set. And this is the second year that they have been with Dell, last year Dell EMC World, now Dell Technologies World. I'm excited to be joined by Alicia Halloran. >> Hi. >> Hi Alicia. >> Hi. >> And we're also joined by Odie and Gracie who are both certified therapy dogs. >> Yes, through Michael's Angel Paws. >> Through Michael's Angel Paws. So this was, I was telling Alicia before we went live that I, when I got to the set Monday morning, I assumed that this area, Michael's Angel Paws, was for attendees of the event who have service dogs. And when I heard, no it's actually part of the event to give people that are here, walking around all day, learning lots of things about technology, just a little bit of respite, I thought that was one of the coolest things I had ever seen. >> Exactly. >> In all the trade shows that I have done. This is your second year participating. >> Yeah, this is the second year that we've done this and it is the most fun event to do because there is so much technology, there's so much going on here and it's so wonderful to have people come by and be able to squeeze our dogs and feel like they're home and think about and talk about their dogs because they're not getting an opportunity to do that at the conference they're working. So, to be able to take a break and just spend some time breathing with some animals, really really good. >> Oh, and I can tell you it does wonders. So, talk to us about therapy dogs. They're both certified. >> Alicia: Right. >> What are the different programs that they go through? >> Well, they start out in obedience, learning how to be dogs and good well-behaved dogs and they pass the Canine Good Citizenship test, and then afterwards, they go through two different levels of therapy dog training. And a lot of that, is based on distraction, being able to be in huge groups of people, big crowds, and maintain their composure, not walk off of tables, and that they can withstand being with people as much. So you kind of figure out if your dog is good enough for it, if they want to do it, and that's really important, they have to want to do it because it is a lot of attention and these guys just love it. >> I'm amazed at how calm they are. >> Yes. >> So this is actually something that's near and dear to Michael Dell's heart. >> Alicia: Yes, yes >> The chairman and CEO of Dell Technologies. Tell us a little bit about his contributions. >> Yeah, he made a generous donation that will provide three scholarships for Michael's Angel Paws for veterans. And what that will do is, it will take three dogs through our therapy dog training program, excuse me, Service Dog Training program and the Service Dog Training program is built to have dogs help veterans in assimilation. And help them with daily activities and Post-traumatic Stress, all sorts of different things. And they're different, those are therapy dogs, so those are dogs that will go everywhere with someone and really take care of them. It's a beautiful, beautiful donation and experience for the veterans to be able to have that. >> Absolutely. That's fantastic. Well, it's been really neat to see how people are reacting to seeing a pen full of dogs. >> Yes, yes. >> In the middle of, you talked about some requirements for them. There have been very loud noises here >> Alicia: Oh yeah. >> Lisa: Every evening, it's basically being in a concert, loads of people. >> Right, yes. >> And it's, I've been very impressed with how calm they are and how people are reacting. You're providing a really nice service and it's really cool to know that this is something that is very near and dear to Michael Dell's heart and Dell Technologies. >> Yeah, that's so wonderful. Yeah, it's so wonderful to be invited to this. It's such an incredible experience and I think it provides a comfort to everybody here. >> Lisa: I agree. >> So, it's very generous. >> I'm sure I'm going to get the sniff test when I get home at 11 o'clock tonight from my dog. >> Oh, yes! >> But we want to thank you, Alicia, for stopping by! >> Yes, it was my pleasure. >> Sharing with us about the program >> Absolutely, it was my pleasure. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> I'm Lisa Martin, otherwise known as Zara's mom. You're watching theCUBE, live from Dell Technologies World in Las Vegas. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hello everyone and welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive, three days of coverage here at IBM Think 2018. I'm John Furrier co-host with Dave Vellante, hosting three days and next is Joel Horowitz, Vice President Strategic Partnerships and Offering, of The Digital Business Group. >> Thanks. >> Welcome back to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Good to see you guys. Thanks for having me here. >> Thanks for coming on. >> You've been on theCUBE, probably so many times, talking big data, talking analytics, now, in your new role in The Digital Group, the digital transformation. I really want to just ask you right off the bat about your new role, and how it relates to the changing ecosystem. >> Joel: Yeah. >> All of these markets are changing big time, the role of the ecosystem, the leverage that they have with technology and the value propositions, whether it's decentralized applications in Blockchain to storage and infrastructure, and big data. What is your role, take a minute to explain what you're doing, because you have a unique position, because this demand for partnerships, this demand for collaboration at many levels. What's the latest? >> So I would describe my role as being a champion of our partners, for sure. I look at, you know, I take, a very outside in perspective on IBM. Joining just over three years ago now, I came in, really through analytics, as you know, focused on machine learning, data science, and the growth of A.I. at that time. Last year I was part of the corporate development team over there. So looking, really, at a lot of the industry trends and what's going on, as well, in analytics, data, and A.I. This year, you know, we recognize that we're only going to do so many strategic partnerships a year, right, where there's probably a handful that we're going to work with. For example, last year we did a great partnership with Lightbend to bring their reactive platform to IBM, and we launched the iPhone 10, with Verizon on Lightbend's platform. But, these days, my team, can't be everywhere, obviously, and part of the value of digital, and that route to market is really the idea that partner should be able to self service. So, you know, my job this year, is frankly to put myself out of a job, right. Meaning, if I can get, you know, 70% of the work my team does, right, contracting, legal, setting up, provisioning, all of that on our cloud, and partners can just do that themselves. Then we'll capture a much larger swath of the emerging A.I., data, and cloud market. >> I want to talk about the killer app creating value and then the role the market place is playing. You mentioned self service. I want to kind of go down that. Before we get there, I want to get your thoughts on this because I noticed, in your role you're covering, it's cutting across a lot of different things, and you know we've been talking about cloud, as a horizontally disrupting technology, >> Joel: Yeah. >> Certainly in the data space you saw that. And stacks will be horizontally scalable with the cloud. >> Yeah. >> But you could be vertical specialization in the applications. So I noticed you're covering analytics, Watson, Cloud, hybrid cloud, emerging technologies. >> Yeah. >> Blockchain, and many others. >> Yeah. >> So talk about, it's obvious you guys are now cutting across, horizontally, across the different IBM divisions. Is that by design? >> Yeah. >> What's the impact of the ecosystem and partners for that horizontally cut over? >> Yeah, I know, I mean it's a great question, I think. Look, there are some specific design patterns that we see across every technology, across every, you know, business at IBM. One design pattern is pretty obvious, you saw it with the launch of the IBM cloud private data. Following up on last years IBM Cloud Private. And that design pattern is really about people containerizing applications. And so, at the end of the week, we have the business partner, or PartnerWorld Leadership conference. Excuse me. Where a number of our partners really are looking at how do I bring that work load to the cloud. And it's not so much the cloud is the end point. That's really the starting off point to A; Get much wider distribution and B; Be able to take advantage of a lot of these emerging technologies, like Blockchain, like A.I. Like IOT, and numerous others, Quantum, et cetera, they'll just keep coming. So really cloud to me is just a way for us to open the door to a lot of the technology that's flooding the market. >> Dave: Joel, can you talk about partnership, you mentioned before that you guys are kind of selective, John calls them Barney deals, ya know. I love you, you love me. You guys sound like you don't look for those, not volume, it's quality. >> Yeah. >> What are the criteria that you're looking for? How do you get value out of those? How do you measure that value out of the partnerships? If someone is a prospective partner out there, how should I be interacting with you? >> Yeah, I think, there's probably two steps. I think one is really recognizing that, in my own personal view, is that we really want to partner with folks who embrace open standards. Now I'm not going to like go as far to say open source, 'cause I think there is a lot that goes into that. But I will say open standards, meaning, not these like large monolithic applications, but can you actually integrate with us in some meaningful way? And to do that, that's why we actually started on this new platform that we are launching today. Called IBM Partner Self-service. Is the ability to first integrate with IBM. So, if you can demonstrate that you can build with IBM first, whether that's a startup, an ISV, a business partner. Like that's criteria number one. Criteria number two is are you a trusted partner? So, do you actually have the same level of competency that we would expect from, frankly, our own sellers, and our own people. And so, to do that, we've also launched new competency paths for business partners and partners as well. So, those are the two major criterias. And then the third one, which I think is kind of the holy grail, is selling with IBM. So we also launched a sell with path today where you can actually list in our marketplace. And then we will actually help you reach new markets. And then demonstrate there's clients, there's a client need that really wants our joint solution, right? And so, to me, those are the three things, to re-state. Like, you know, building with us, having a level of competency with us, and then demonstrating client success with us. >> Okay, so, integrate, you really don't need you guys to do that. I can just dive in and do that. Bake it out a little bit, and then approach you. What kind of help do you give? Do you have programs once you get by those gates? >> So, you know, I would categorize into two groups, I think we have a ton of online support. So, you know, we even embrace Slack at IBM. If you're not aware of that, we have Slack everywhere. And, so, for a self service, I want to say, look, what does zero touch mean, right, in this day and age, for a partner. And so, they can go to our site today, and actually get, you know, sign up for Slack, and talk directly to our technical specialist as well as to our developer advocates. And so, on the enablement and integration side, my colleague, Angel Diaz and team, have done a great job of launching hundreds of IBM code patterns. So that you can just pick these artifacts up, these assets up, and leverage them to integrate all sorts of capabilities into your product. >> You know, Dave, I want to get your thoughts on this, because you and I have been talking about the API integration, and I want to get back to Joel's point in a second because I think this is critical for startups and ecosystem partners. API's are the (speaking quickly) for developers right now, so if I don't want to take a big chance on being all in on IBM, say I want to kick the tires, API's are critical. So the question is, are you seeing that traction on your side of the house, in terms of the end now, since the level of API integration, is that the touchpoint? Is it like the beginning phases? And what level of commitment that you're seeing with people. >> Well, John, to me it comes down to innovation, and it's interesting because Joel came out of the data world. To me, the innovation in the next 10 years starts with data. The second component of that innovation, I think, over the next decade or so is going to be, really, A.I., whether you call it cognitive or machine intelligence or artificial intelligence. And then third, I think is cloud economics and that's really where the API economy fits in. You got to have API'S to integrate, as Joel was saying. You've got to have marginal... You've got to have scale, marginal costs go to zero eventually. You've got to have network effects and you've got to be able to track startups, which is another question I have. >> Now Joel, back to you, on the start on the integration, whether it's a startup or a big company. It used to be, the old days, you got to go all in. You've got to get the developer kit, >> Joel: Yeah. >> Download it, line it to a swim lane, get deeper, prove your value. >> Yeah. >> Find the value's faster; what's the first hurdle if someone wants, hey I want to give IBM a shot here? Love the sell, holy grail option, is it API'S, can people integration on their own? Talk about that specific first step because some people might open up the door and go whoa! There's more here than I thought. Or, wow, there's some real tech. Or, I don't want to use IBM tech, I want to use some of mine. There's that first indifference point. >> Yeah, I think there are areas where we've seen dramatic customer experience improvements. So to give one example, as we've partnered with Ubisoft, Redstorm last year around a new title game that they released called Star Trek Bridge Crew, and so, you know, to me, we went on our own merit, and I think that publisher chose IBM because Watson Conversation is absolutely the best on the market. And so what that did is it enabled game players, their end customer, their end user, to speak into a VR headset and just give commands, as you would naturally. And so, I think a lot of, as you think about IBM, it's, yeah, we've made it completely easy to access our API'S. I think, there's a great quote from the founder of Flickr that I read years ago, I'll go dig it up for you guys later, but it was along the lines of business development means, today is exposing your API'S, like, that's it! And, on the other side of it, we give a lot away in terms of cloud credits, right, and so, today, if you go and sign up on our self service platform, we'll give you $10,000 a month in free cloud credits to build and build quickly. Because, at the end of the day, if it's not self service, if it requires more heavy lifting, then, frankly, we're not doing our jobs. And so that's my commitment, is to make sure that is available, is accessible, and there's experts there that can help you on your journey. >> So that attracts startups, obviously, 10K a month is a honey pot for those guys. What about existing IBM clients that want to get to the cloud. Migrate to the cloud. How do you help those guys? >> Yeah, so, in the migration front, we have a great team in place with IBM services, who basically have set up a migration factor, if you will, and there are numerous ways to chart your course to the cloud. Whether it's, you know, full cloud or hybrid cloud, or some offloading, some aspects to the cloud. There's a lot of different paths you can take and so to do that, we're offering $50,000 in migration credits for the first couple months. We're also offering 35% off for professional services. So, we have a great offer going on over the next few months to help people make that first step. >> Incentives are key. >> And, look, we're here with you so it's not like, here, throwing it over the fence, and good luck! You know, tweet at me, instant message me, I'm around. And I will be absolutely committed to partner success. >> Yeah, you know, incentives are critical, that's going to get the market going. But, the end of the day, it's the type of value, and I want to get your thoughts, it's something that's come up that I've heard people talk about in the hallways and other conferences. They kind of chirp about "Hey, you know, "I'd like to get this, from suppliers. "I want to see more tools, more programs "to help me get more customers, to get more value. "I'm building apps, but also got a business to run." What are some of the conversations you've had over the past year with customers and partners? Stack rank the top three or four things that they talk about, either their pain points or things that are on their mind, that's worth noting? >> I mean, I would say first and foremost, I mean, me, myself, being in a startup at H2O. Three, four years ago. We used to walk in there and sell into the data scientists, right, so if you don't know H2O, they're a great company, a machine learning company, but we would get the data scientists really excited about working with our product, and then lo and behold, we'd get to the CIO office saying, "Hey, what is this stuff? "Get it out of here." You know, Hadoop was the same way, by the way, 2010 working at AVG, like, we'd bring in Hadoop. Like what is this data like thing? There's no governance, it's a mess. Where they could really, you know, work with IBM, where they see value from IBM is when we go into the CIO office together and say, look, we've demonstrated that there's value here. We've demonstrated that there's actual customer need. We can create a lot of help in terms of getting the rest of the organization bought in. Put in the right governance around it. Because, look, I mean GDPR is real, it's a big deal. Like, data privacy, is huge. So, you know, Rob Thomas likes to say, "You can't have good A.I. without I.A." I think that's a great information architecture. So, I agree, and so I think that's what the number one benefit is. Really get in there, move quickly, demonstrate value, and then when you're ready to make that next step of how you roll that out to the rest of the enterprise, that's when IBM becomes a huge help. >> You know, you mentioned GDPR. With regulatory issues now are becoming criteria for a lot of application developers that are small that may not have the resources to handle the right to get your name out of a database or other tools, and other regulations, certainly. Decentralize applications with Blockchain, another regulatory challenge-- >> Yep. >> Opportunity as well. Are you guys having those kinds of conversations, like putting specific things in place beyond GDPR, and if so what regulatory and legal things do you see out there that could be blockers for customers, that you guys hope to go after? >> I mean, I don't think there's a one word answer here. I do think that you take it on a case by case basis. I think you're seeing different countries adopt GDPR differently. Germany, obviously, being a very strict kind of country in doing that. So, you know, IBM services, as well as our analytics team, are really focused on that. I think, like I said, what you saw with ICP data coming out this week, I think that's a really important way to look at it. My own personal view, I think, for sure there's a lot of compliance, They have to look at, and understand the workflow, workflows of how people are using that data, as well as application architecture is big. And those are all the considerations, I think, that you are going to see as people move. I read a statistic that 40% of all CSP'S, MSP'S, are moving, are growing, like it's 40% growth from IBC, 50% of all developers are now embedding A.I. So, this market is growing and growing fast. But, you're right. If folks out there aren't really taking GDPR seriously, you can get yourself into some hot water. >> Well, we've observed that scale matters, certainly, whether it's a partner or cloud, that gets, that helps people. >> Yeah. >> Joel, well, thanks for coming onto theCUBE, we really appreciate it. >> Yeah, my pleasure. >> Before we end, I want to get your thoughts, just share with the folks that are watching. What kind of deals do you want to do? What's on your radar? What's the priorities for you? From a strategic business development standpoint. To develop across that horizontally scalable, IBM division space, as well as technology space? >> You know, it's not what deals I want to do, it's really what deals our partners want to do. >> Come on, your in charge, come on. >> It's really what deals our partners want to do, ya know. I mean, look, I get excited about transforming industries, I really do, so I look at, not what's the transactional partnership, like go, we'll do something, and there's some revenue, or something. I look at how do we transform an industry? >> Let me rephrase the question. What's on the priority list for you guys, from a transformational area, that's important for your partners. >> Yeah, I would say for sure, obviously, A.I. is huge. Obviously data is huge, obviously cloud is huge. But, looking really specific, I think you just add tech after each industry. So Addtech, Fintech, Healthtech obviously. Game tech and, I think, probably the last one, to me personally, is the most exciting. We signed an amazing deal with Unity at the end of last year, the start of this year. In fact GDC game developer conference is going on as we speak in San Francisco. So half my team right now is over there, demonstrating Watson as like VR, AR, and it's not just for games, right. It's like with BMW and VW doing some cool stuff there as well. So, I'm really excited about the, AR, VR, industry growing, especially with our partner Unity. >> There's a new creative out there-- >> Can I jump in before you exit? I want to ask you a follow up on that, because if transformation is sort of the target for your partnerships. Healthcare is an area that should be transformed. But, needs to be transformed, but it's hard to transform healthcare. >> Joel: It is, yeah. >> Do you feel like you could start moving the needle from a partnership perspective? Or is that going to take some more time? >> You know, I think there's a lot of great work being done there. I do believe... Look, in general, I think we can move a lot faster with partners, in fact, I like to call it like the Nordstrom model. Right? Like IBM in the past has been Barney's of New York, forever, right? From a branding and from how we partner with folks, like I think we need to move more to a Nordstrom, like, yeah, we'll sell our own offerings off the rack, but then we need to help partners come in and create the right styles for the right need and the right industry. >> Yeah and then there's a Nordstrom Rack you're going to need to put that on. (laughing) Over technology goes the Nordstrom Rack. Joel Horowitz, thanks for coming out. Vice President Strategic Partnerships and Offerings, here on theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, with three days of IBM Think live streaming, all of the videos will be up on thecube.net sports live now. Youtube.com/siliconangle for all the ondemands when the show's over. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (light techno music)

>> Lisa: I'm Lisa Martin with theCUBE. We're on the ground at Google for the 6th Annual CloudNOW Top Women in Cloud Awards. Very excited to be joined by award winner and CUBE alumni Erica Windisch, founder and CTO of Iopipe. Welcome back to theCUBE, Erica. >> Erica: Thank you. Great to have you here, and congratulations on being one of the top women in Cloud. >> Yeah, of course. >> Tell me, when you heard about that you were being recognized, what did that mean to you and where you are in your career? >> Well, oh gosh, I mean it really meant, it was really big for me. I actually wasn't really expecting it. I think I was nominated and I totally forgot. I think somebody had mentioned to me that they were nominating me and I had no idea about it. I totally forgot about it. But I mean, for me it's just so validating because as much as I've, well one, because I've done a lot of interesting things in Cloud and in tech, but I've never really gotten a lot of recognition for that. And also, just recognition, I mean to be quite honest, I'm transgender. So the fact that I was recognized as a woman, Top Ten Women in Cloud Computing, was extra important and special for me. >> Oh, that's awesome. So tell me about your path to being where you are now. Were you always interested in computers and technology, or is that something that you kind of zigzagged your way to? >> Yeah, well, it was one of these things I guess I had some interest. When I was a child, we had BASIC exercises printed in our math books but our teachers never went over it. So I got kind of interested and I would read through those like those little appendums in my math books, and I would start teaching myself BASIC. And I picked up a Commodore 64 and it didn't work and I taught myself BASIC, more BASIC with those manuals. And I just had these little tiny introductions to technology and just self-taught myself everything. Eventually using a high school job to buy myself books and just teaching myself from those books. Managed to grab Linux on some floppy disks, installed it and tried to figure out how to use it. But I didn't really have lot of mentors or anything that I could really follow. At best there were other kids at school who were into computers and I just wanted to try and do what they were doing or do better than they were doing. >> I love that, self-taught, you knew you liked this and you were not afraid to try, "Hey, let me teach myself." That's really inspiring, Erica. >> Yeah. >> So, speaking of inspiring, tell me about the Iopipes story. So you're a TechSource company, tell us a little bit about TechSource, what that investment in IOpipe means. >> Yeah, so, I started, I guess I first started IOpipe two years ago. And I found the co-founder Adam Johnson, who joined me. And we applied for Techstars, got in, and that was like the first validation that we had from outside of ourselves and maybe one angel investor at that time. And that was a really big deal because it really helped accelerate us, give us validation, allow us to make the first hire, and they also taught us a lot about how to refine our elevator pitch, and how to raise money effectively. And then we ended up raising money, of course. So with the end of Techstars we had a lot of visibility, and that helped us raise two and a half million dollars seed round. >> Wow, so a really good launching pad for you. >> Yes, yeah. >> That's fantastic. So tell us a little bit more about the technology, I know that there's AWS Lambda, we just got back from re:Invent last week, so tell us a little bit more about exactly what you guys do. >> Oh yeah, so what we do is we provide a service that allows developers to get better insights into their application, they get observability into the application running a Lambda, as well as debugging and profiling tools. So you can actually get profiling data out of your Lambda and load that into Google DevTools and get Flame Graphs and dig in deep into which function called which function inside of each function call, so every Lambda invocation you can really dig down and see what's happening. We have things like custom metrics and alerts for that. So you can, for instance, we built this bot. I built it in two days. It's a Slack bot that, if you put an image in a Slack, it will run it through Amazon Rekognition and tell you, describe the objects in it, and describe it. So, for instance, if you have visually impaired members of your team, they can find out what was in the images that people pasted. I built it in only two days, and I could use our tool, let's say to extract how many objects were found in that image, whether or not a specific object was found in that image, and then we can create alerts around those, and do searches based on those, and get statistics out of our product on the data that was extracted from those images. So that was really cool, and we actually announced that feature, the profiling feature, at Midnight Madness at re:Invent so it was like the opening ceremony for re:Invent. It was just us, Andy Jassy and Shaquille O'Neal. >> Lisa: What? >> Yeah, and we launched our product, and we did the demo of this Slack bot, and it was a lot of fun. >> Wow! So you were there last week, then? >> I was there, we were there last week, and we were actually the first, myself, my co-founder and one of our engineers were up there and we were the first non-AWS speakers at the entire arena, it was really amazing. >> Wow, amazing. Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> So with all the cool announcements that came out last week on Lambda, Serverless, even new features that were announced for recognition, how does that either change the game or maybe kind of ignite the fire under you guys even a little bit more? >> Well I think one of the biggest announcements relative to us was Cloud9. And we knew that this was going to happen, Amazon acquired them a year ago, a year and a half ago, but they finally launched it. And they really doubled down on providing a much better experience for developers of Lambda to make it easier for developers to really build and ship and run that code on Lambda, which provides a much tighter experience for them so that they can on-board into things like IOpipe more easily. So that was really exciting, because I think that's really going to help with the adoption of Lambda. And some of the other features like Alexa for work is really interesting. It will probably just again, a lot of Alexa apps are built on top of Lambda, so all of these are going to provide value to my own company because we can tell you things like, "Well, how are your users interacting "with those Alexa skills?" But I think it's just generally exciting because there's just so many really cool, I mean, I don't know how many things they announced at this re:Invent that were just really amazing. Another one I really loved was Fargate, because I mean I came from Docker, I used to be a maintainer of the Docker engine and something that I was pushing for at that time in OpenStack and other projects, was the idea of just containers completely as a service without the VM management side of things, because with like ECS, you had to manage virtual machines, and I was like, "Well that is a little, like, "I don't want to manage virtual machines, "I just want Amazon to give me containers." So I was really excited that they finally launched Fargate to offer that. >> So the last question in our last couple of minutes here, tell me about the culture and your team that you lead at IOpipe. You were saying before, you know, when you were a kid you were really self-taught and very inspired by your own desire to learn, but tell me a little bit about the people that work for you and how you help inspire them. >> Oh gosh, well I think first of all, we are, right now we're nine people. I would say about four or five of us are under-represented minorities in tech in one way or another. It's really been fantastic that we've been able to have that level of diversity and inclusion. I think part of that is that we started very diverse. You know, a lot of companies will say, well, one of their problems with not having enough diversity is that they hire within their networks, well we hire within our networks, but we started very diverse in the first place. So that organic growth was very natural and very diverse for us, whereas that organic pairing growth can be problematic if you don't start in a very diverse place. So I think that's been really great, and I think that the fact that we have that level of diversity and inclusion with our employees is kind of inspiring, because a lot of workplaces just aren't like that in tech. It's really hard to find, and granted we're only nine right now. I would really hope that we can keep that up and I would like to actually make our workforce even more diverse than it is today. But yeah, I don't know, I just think it's fantastic and I want what we're doing to be a role model and an inspiration to other companies and say, "Yes, you can do this." And also the work people in the workforce, yes, you can be a woman in tech, yes, you can be trans in tech, yes, you can be non-binary in tech. I am binary, but we have non-binary people in staff. And, I don't know, I hope that's inspiring to people and also myself being a transgender founder, I maybe know one or two other people who are transgender founders, it's very uncommon. And I hope that also is an inspiration for people. >> Well I think so, speaking for myself I find you very inspiring. You seem to be someone that's really known for thinking, "I'm not afraid of anything. "I'm just going to try it. "Starting a company, I'm going to try it." And it sounds like you guys are very purposefully building a culture that's very inclusive, and so I think that, as well as your recognition as one of the Top Women in Cloud, be proud of that, Erica. That's awesome. >> Thank you. >> And you got to meet Shaquille O'Neal? >> I got to meet Shaquille O'Neal, yeah. >> I've got to see the photo. (laughs) >> Yeah. >> Well thank you so much Erica for joining us back on theCUBE. Congratulations on the award, and we look forward to seeing exciting things that you do in the future. >> Okay great, thank you. >> I'm Lisa Martin on the ground with theCUBE at Google for the CloudNOW Top Women in Cloud Awards. Thanks for watching, bye for now.

>> Narrator: Live from San Fransisco, it's theCUBE covering Samsung Developer Conference 2017. Brought to you by Samsung. >> Okay welcome back everyone here live in San Fransisco at Moscone West, is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Samsung Developer Conference #SDC2017. I'm John Furrier co-founder of SiliconANGLE media, co-host of theCUBE. My next guest is artist, director, and producer Rob Prior, at Robprior.com. Great to have you, thanks for spending time. >> It's good to be here. >> Alright. Great to have you. You're super impressive. I was amazed by the work behind me on the wide shot. Can we go to the wide shot? You can see the work you've done. You were just here behind us on the main Disruptor studio with Stan Lee who was Marvel Comics, legend in the industry. >> Legend. >> I mean absolutely legend. And he's here promoting, you know, the edge of the network with Samsung. Games and all that good stuff, part of the developer conference. >> Yeah. >> But you were up there painting with both hands in real time. And did this art. >> Yeah, it was less than an hour, I think this one was. I don't know I don't even keep track anymore. I'm just like... >> So you do both hands. So how did that come about? How did you get to the two hands? >> When I was about, alright, I was going to be an artist no matter what. My entire family line were artists, but none by profession. So, I was kind of not even given a choice. So I got to be about 10 years old and I thought the same thing that every 10 year old thinks, "what if I loose my right hand?". No 10 year old thinks that. So I switched at 10. I switched to, you know I was born a righty, I switched to be a lefty. I switched everything. I switched, you know, baseball, how I threw a balls, playing guitar. I switched everything over. So for two years, no mater how much any one begged me, to like, my grades were going down, cause no one could read my writing, cause I'm like... >> Cryptic. >> Yeah it was weird, and so at that point I made my left hand as good as my right hand. And I was published very young. I was published at 13, internationally at 15. And 13, when I got published, I had math homework due, and I had a painting, a cover due. And I'm like oh my god how am I going to do, I mean. >> Screw the homework, I'm going to do the painting. >> Yeah, so I picked up two brushes and I'm was oh yeah I can do this. Then I actually figured out that I could do my math homework and paint simultaneously. I shut my eyes apparently, when, I don't know when I do it, but when I paint, my eyes are shut a lot of the time. >> Wow, that's awesome. So great skills, so it gets it done faster, but it's also creative. Talk about your work, your artistry, cartoons. You started doing, what did you get into first? And how did your career evolve? Take us through the evolution of your career, because now in the tech scene, you're doing some awesome art, but we live in a digital world. >> Yeah. >> How's that? You're doing cartoons, covers. >> When I first started out, I was doing interiors. Like just pen and ink interiors. And then I started moving into color painted covers, and, you know, sort of gradually went from, you know from black and white work to full color work, to being, doing a lot of different magazine covers, book covers. You name it. I worked heavily with TSR, which is Dungeons and Dragons at the time. >> Yeah. >> And I just sort of moved forward and kept... >> And you got then you got to Hollywood started with movies. What movies did you work on? >> Oh my god, I've worked on a lot of low budget movies. I worked on TV series like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Firefly, Angel. God, so many. I mean, like literally that whole era of TV shows. You know, movie wise I've done stuff with Fast and the Furious. Wow, it's amazing, when you get asked, when you have a giant body of work. When you ask that question all I see are ducks going across. >> Well you just came off stage, so you're really in painting mode now, and you just did this painting. >> Yeah. And how long did it take you do this one? >> I'm sorry? >> This art, how long did it take you to do this one? >> This was a little under an hour. I painted one earlier as well on the main stage during the keynote speech. And that one took me 45 minutes or something like that. >> So they're giving their talk, and you're painting away. >> Yep. >> And you've done this at concerts? >> Yeah >> Tell us what other venues have you done? >> Things like this. I've done it with concerts. People like Tech N9ne, Linkin Park, you know, Steve Aoki, Flo Rida, just to name a few. So I do it while they're performing. So I'll do a full, like, four foot by eight foot painting in about an hour and a half. But when I'm doing gallery work it takes me about a day, maximum two days a painting. >> Yeah. Well you're considerable talent. You mentioned before we came on camera, you're going to do the Linkin Park memorial at the Hollywood Bowl. >> I am, I'm going to be painting there on the 27th, at the Hollywood Bowl. You know, there's going to be a lot of people there, just, you know I think they said the tickets sold out in, like, 39 seconds, or, it was crazy. >> Yeah. >> But I'm fortunate to be able to do that. >> Yeah. >> And pay my respects as well, so. >> Well great work you're doing. I'm really inspired by that because one of the things we're passionate about at SiliconANGLE and theCUBE here is social science, arts, and technology coming together. That's clearly a trend that's happening. I start see the younger generation too coming into this world, and certainly, you have four kids, I have four kids too. We talked about that earlier, but, they're getting immersed in this digital culture and might miss out on some of the analog art. >> Absolutely. >> And what's your thoughts on that, because, this is like, you do both right. >> Yes. >> So you get your hands dirty, I see your hands are dirty. >> Yep they're filthy. >> Good job, you really roll up your sleeves, little pun intended. So, this is the key to success. Share your thoughts and vision for the younger generation and other artists out there, because art will be the front and center piece of technology inspiration, user interface, gaming, augmented reality. >> No, absolutely, you know what, here's the thing. And this is something that you and I were talking about just a little bit ago. I think the, we as humans have a choice. You know, especially kids nowadays they can go and they can be fully immersed, but then they miss all the other things, you know. I've seen kids at tables texting each other instead of talking. But I think if you take the analog era, the thing, like the live painting. Cause I use, I'll take a picture of this I'll pour it into the computer, ill clean it up, and I'll do that. I think mixing the two worlds is vital, you know, in advancing forwards as humans. I mean that's just my opinion, I try to teach my kids that as well. >> Yeah. >> You can't forget about the real world. >> Yeah. >> Because the real world's going to be here no matter what. >> Yeah. >> So, you know- >> And then game developers are out there right now working on a lot of ideas, inspiration, you've drawn monsters before. >> Absolutely >> Some of the characters here from Marvel with Stan Lee. There is, do you need the creative spark? >> Oh absolutely. And look there are, creative spark, anything can be a tool. You know, so, the computer, doing computer art is an amazing opportunity to explore a new kind of tool, right? To invent and create new creatures or new things. It's all on how you use it. And then you get the people, I said this on stage the other day, you get people who are taking photos and then pressing 27 filters and calling it art. I think you have to go backwards and, once again, be able to do the analog. Write your story, create your idea and take any tool that's available and make it happen. Whether it's to picking up a paintbrush, whether it's getting on a computer on a Wacom tablet. >> So you think that's practice from a young artist standpoint is get down and dirty, get analog. >> Absolutely. >> And that's your inspiration sandbox, if you will. >> Absolutely, you know, and I think, here's an example. It's hard to have a gallery show of all digital stuff. Beause then it's just prints of things that you've done. There's no brush strokes, there's nothing there. And a lot of art collectors want to see the stroke. They want to know it's one-of-a-kind, that's it. >> Yeah the prototype. >> Yeah >> Or whatever the inspiration was. It's inspiring. >> Absolutely. So I tell all artistes, and even to the best computer artists, I'm like, go analog, get your hands dirty, paint. And let that speak as well. >> I've been lucky at my age to see a bunch of waves of innovation in technology. It's super exciting. I'd love to get your thoughts, from your perspective, and the artistry community, and you've been in L.A., over the past 10 years, maybe even 20, but say 10 an easier number. 10 years ago the Iphone wasn't even out, right? >> Oh god. >> So actually, 10 years ago it was the Iphone, but let's say 11 years ago. There was no Iphone, there was, YouTube just hit the scene. So this whole digital culture has just shifted. >> Oh absolutely. >> Apple was a no name company in 2000, right? Micheal Dell once said, " They should give the stock back to stockholders". (laughter) So Steven Jobs proved them all wrong. What is the scene like in your world around the last 10 years? What's been the disruptive change? Where's the enablement? What's been bad? What's been good? What's your thoughts? >> You know, in the art world itself, it's something I just mentioned, what's disrupted the art world, is people coming in and literally just being, what I call, a button pusher artist. You know, they figure out a filter or a tan, or whatever, they make art on their phone, and they're like. And that disrupts a lot of things. Because then it shows, or can teach, kids or artists, or anybody. People our age, whatever, it doesn't matter. That it's okay to do that and skip all of the steps, and I think that's the biggest point is the technology has allowed people to think they can skip steps, but you can't. You can never skip the step- >> What's the consequences of those steps skipping. What's the consequence there? >> So, if that's what you are, and you've figured out filters, and you get hired to do a job, because maybe you're the greatest filter button pusher in the world. But then all of the sudden your computer goes out. What do you do? >> Call Apple Care. >> Yeah, there you go. >> Cheese bar appointment. >> I know, I konw You're screwed basically. >> You are. I mean, I knew way back in the 20 years ago, if you were versed in drawing cars, and you got a job doing storyboards for a commercial, and all of the sudden they said, "Hey we're changing everything. Now we're taking out all the cars and now it's real people". If you're not good at drawing real people, you lost your job. Same basic concept. >> Yeah. >> You have to take it all in, you know, in a giant ball. And for the people who are like, "I don't want to touch a computer". Man, that's- >> So it works both ways. >> Absolutely works both ways. >> So what you're saying, if I get this right, is the computer's a great enable and accelerant of a finished product. >> Rob: Absolutely. >> So you use it, you'll take this print you did behind us, you'll touch it up, and you'll turn it into posters, you'll sell it, you'll syndicate it. >> Yep. >> Etcetera, etcetera, but you did the work here in an hour. With both hands. You did it just on the fly, total creative, creativity. >> Yeah, I mean, today's world, I think, if we let things go too much then the computer takes over and we loose a part of ourselves. >> And what about your social friends. Like musicians, you know? >> Oh my god. >> So what's the musician vibe, same thing? I mean tools are out there now, my son's doing some stuff on Ableton live, he loves that software suite, but he's still laying some guitar licks down. >> Absolutely, and you know, the great thing about in the music scene, I heard this a lot when Pro Tools first came out. Everybody was like, "That's the death of the producer". No, that was the beginning of a different kind of producer. And if you can do things at home and you're good, then it's great. >> What's the culture like in L.A. right now in terms of the creative producer, creator? Cause you've got like a maker culture on the geek side. Robotics, maker culture put stuff together, build some new things. Now you got a creator culture which builds off the maker culture, then you got the builder culture all kind of coming together. What's the success formula in your mind, besides the managing the tools. What's the mindset of the new producer, the new director, the new artist? What do you see as success points? >> These are some of the best questions I've ever been asked. Like, literally in every interview I'm answering the same ones. No, this is great. I think, I think it's a little bit of the wild west out in L.A., you know, and all over. Because, you're forming amalgamations. The director of a movie is no longer, possibly, just a director. He's also working on some of the cinematography. Maybe he's an editor, you know, it's a jack of all trades thing. And I think a lot of the people that had one trade going in, and were really good at it, are finding that they're getting passed up sometimes by the person who can do four or five different things including being able to be versed at technology >> Yeah we're seeing a lot of the things happen in the computer industry, just to share on my side of the table. Data scientist is the hottest job on the planet. Doing data. Some of the best data scientists are anthropologists. >> Really? >> Like weird majors in college. But they have a unique view of the data. They're not parochial in their thinking. They're looking at it differently. Or they have a math background, and obviously math is pretty important in data science, but also, it's not just prototypical, you got to be this spec. It's a little bit of a different artsy kind of a feel, cause you got to be, look at things differently. You got to be able to rotate around 360. >> And that's exactly it. That you've got to have, you got to be thinking outside of the box at all times nowadays. >> Well Rob what's next for you? What' going on? You got a lot of things going on. >> Rob: Oh wow. >> You got a lot of business ventures, you make a lot of money on your prints, you're famous. You're exploring new territory. What are some of the boundaries you're pushing right now creatively, that's really getting you excited? >> Well, I'm going to be directing a movie coming up. Which I find great because it allows me to take every bit of all the things I know and put it into a package, that's fun. I've got several gallery shows coming up. I've got a gallery show that I'll be doing with Stan, which will be New York and L.A. And, just getting on stage with more and more bands. You know, I think- >> You're a cult of personality, what's it like working with Stan? He's a cult of personality. >> Oh my god, Stan is, Stan's great. >> People yelling stuff at him, "hey what do you think about that". I mean there's a lot of culture in the Marvel Comics world. >> Oh man he, you know, and look he's like what, 95. And he's got more energy than I do. Literally last night, we're all out to dinner and I left before everybody else did. Stan outlast me. A 95 year old guy, and I'm like, "I'm too tired, I got to go to bed". And Stan's still going, you know. >> The energizer bunny. >> He's an animal. >> Well great for coming on. Thanks for the inspiration. Great art, got amazing art right here >> Thank you so much for having me man. >> Great job, congratulations. >> Thank you >> Good to see the arts. Analog and the digital worlds connecting. This is the key to success in the technology business. Bringing an artisan mindset to great technology for vital benefits. That's what theCUBE believes, we believe it. And so does Mr. Prior here. Check out the art, robertprior.com. Check it out. Robprior.com. It's theCUBE live from San Francisco. More after this short break. >> Thanks for having me.