>>Live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cube covering ifs world conference 2019 brought to you by ifs. >>Well going back to Boston and everybody, this is the cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We're here day one at the ifs world conference at the Hynes convention center in Boston. Cindy shutdown is here. She's the president of America's at ifs and she's joined by to my right, K in Blackwell, who's a controller at PPC partners, one of the divisions of PPC Metro power. And rod is the CIO of PPC partners. Welcome folks. Good to see you. I said, let me start with you. So you were on last year in the cube down at Atlanta. You still kind of set some, set some goals, you're a little competitive with your other brethren within then ifs. We love it. You know, we're Americans. Okay. So how's it going in North America? >>Um, well it's, it's growing well. We've had fantastic growth and it's been, you know, a little bit of competition within ifs, but you know, certainly we were very proud. We were named region of the year last year. So we won the coveted cup, which, uh, means, uh, we, uh, we want to keep that cup. So that's some of the, some of the competition that we've got going, right? >>Yeah. Well, of course, most of us based companies, they'll do, they'll start up 79, you know, 90% of their businesses, U S if not 100%, and then they'll slowly go overseas as some of the opposite. Right? >>Very much. I mean, ifs is a European based company. We've been in the, in the U S for quite awhile and, but we've really been investing in our growth and we've had fantastic growth over the last few years. And I think, you know, one of the reasons for that growth is our customer satisfaction in the fact that we really want to listen to our customers. You know, I, um, I, I travel quite a lot as you can imagine. And when I travel, I always try to make sure I can visit customers and hear what they have to say, you know, and of course we love to hear the good things, but I also like to hear when they can give us some ideas for improvement and um, you know, then that gives us something to work on and to, you know, to keep moving forward. Um, I also think that, you know, the good thing about that is, um, it gives us a chance to listen and um, you know, I heard something really great from one of our customers, they went live two weeks ago and they called up and said, Hey, can we do a customer story? I love things like that. Yeah. >>I always love that. Uh, let me think about it. I'll get back to you. Okay. What's your relationship between ifs and PPC part? >>Well, PPC partners is one of our newer customers in there in the middle of an implementation and they're doing some great things around digital transformation. And when I had this opportunity to be here on the cube, I thought it would be great to invite rod and can with me and to, you know, tell some of the things that they're doing. >>Cool. So I kind of recruited Cindy as my cohost, your, they're going to be the defective coho. So welcome to the queue and then we're going to show you right to the fire. Okay. So, uh, can you describe your, your role, your when one of the divisions of PPC partners, right? So maybe maybe set up sort of PPC partners and then your role. >>Right. Okay. So PPC is a specialty contracting company and we have four subsidiary companies that operate in the upper Midwest and then also the Southeastern United States. And we provide, um, um, customers within a base innovative, innovative solutions in the electrical and mechanical contracting. So there are those four companies. I was one of the controllers, um, of those four companies for a lot of years. And now I'm on the core team. There's four of us, five of us now, um, that are involved in the implement. >>Okay. So you got all the numbers in your head. And then rod, you're the CIO and you guys are a service organization for all the divisions. Is that correct? That is correct. >>We sit at the holding company and we're responsible for technology across all four of those specialty contractor companies that can just mention. >>So I love these segments, Cindy, because you know, we, here you go, we go to a lot of conferences in the cube and um, you hear a lot about digital transformation, but, so I'd like to ask the practitioners, what does that mean for you guys? We've got somebody who's very close to the line of business, like I say, knows the numbers, but at the end of the day you've got to deliver the technology services. So what does digital transformation mean to you? What's the company doing in that regard? So a great question actually. >>Um, you'll find companies like ours that have been on the same platform for quite a while, uh, 50 plus years, uh, five zero five, six, zero, uh, probably North of five zero, but we'll go with five zero. Uh, and what happens over time is just, you know, with the system can't grow with the organizations, you resort to a lot of manual paper pushing a lot of file flinging, lots of Excel. And so there's just a ton of duplication of effort and those types of things going on. So from a technology standpoint, that's really the stuff that I come in and see and go, you know. Um, but overall I think that getting to the ifs platform, getting a lot of those redundant processes, a lot of the file flinging out of there, it's just going to be beneficial for all of them. >>Okay. So you guys have had to make the business, you're in the middle of the implementation, right? Is that correct? So she had to go through the business case. Um, it sounds like the business case was, you know, we're, we're basically struggling with running our business because, you know, data's all over the place. We don't have a single view of our business, our customers, et cetera. So we have to come to grips with that. But, but, so what was the business case like? I presume that you were involved as well. >>Right. So I've was really involved in building the software that we've used for that 40 plus years though I haven't used it all of them two years. Um, and, and it was really. It was built by accountants. We, you know, intended for it to meet the needs of the whole, the whole organization. But really it was built by accountants. So, um, we've found that we just really weren't able to keep up with meeting the needs of all of the users. Um, so when we started looking at that, we also had, we were running on a couple of different, um, I'm going to call them boxes. We run it on IBM. So, um, we were not able to look across the entire organization and see a consolidated view of the whole organization. So that was one of the things that we were looking to do, was to really bring all four companies under one umbrella and be able to get a picture of the whole mainframe or, yes, we had a couple of mainframes and all of that software was internally written. Um, and it was good. It was, it was good, but it met, you know, just the needs that those of us within the company saw. Um, so I think we were missing a whole lot of opportunity, um, to really, you know, see what else was out there and see new things and really get outside of our sphere of understanding, you know, >>so PPC, >>no, I was going to say as SKM pointed out and the sort of running joke within the companies is the system we have today does numbers really well. Words not so much because it was designed by accountants for accounting, tracking the financials primarily. Yeah. >>In PPC you do construction of course, or construction club, but you also do some service as well, right? You've got people out in the field that are, that are doing, doing service. So when you were looking, um, I'm assuming that you were trying to find a system that could do both, both solutions. Yeah. Did. >>Absolutely. Uh, one of the things that's been concerning to the entire core team is it's great to go out and find a system and there's plenty of them that can handle your back office. Most systems do that fairly well. But what about you feel services, uh, any in our particular industry, electrical contracting, you might have residential, you know, we could very well be working on the buck stadium or a military installation or even the school, you know, those folks have to be able to process invoices, do all sorts of things from a handheld, et cetera, et cetera. That was a big, big driving factor for us. So has a lot of COBOL code running? Is that, is there right here? So you said 50 years, I mean, um, so now I'm interested in the, in the, in the migration and, and you know what that looks like. >>Yeah, I'll bet. So do you, do you have to freeze the existing sort of systems and then sort of bring the other ones up to speed? Is this cloud-based? What does that all look like? That great question. So, uh, we are, uh, we subscribe to the managed cloud solution. Um, you know, for most construction companies, electrical contracting companies like ours, you know, technology is important, but it is not what really makes our wheels turn. It's a con. It's a competitive advantage if you use it wisely. And so, um, you know, for us it was very important to think about this holistically and try to figure out if we're gonna bring in a solution, what does that solution need to look like and will it work for all of our companies, not just one, not just residential, commercial, et cetera. Okay. All right. So, so w w what's that journey look like? I mean, um, when did, when did it start? What's your >>sort of timeline? So about two and a half years ago, we really started looking at what we had in on hand now and what we had in place and thinking about did we really want to make a move? And so, um, we had a team that came together about 15 people across the organization from operations and also the back office to really evaluate what we had evaluated our needs. Um, we decided, yes, we needed something new. And then we actually brought in a second team, um, that started looking at what that new thing would be. We had a consultant assisting us with that and uh, we kinda narrowed it down to two players if you will. And ifs was one of those. Um, and we, even though, um, one of the things that we liked was the fact that that ifs had, um, a broad reach over different types of industries and we felt like that would give us, um, something in addition to a construct and centric view know domain expertise. Yeah, >>exactly. You know, and you know, with our core industries, you know, construction is a big part of that. But one of the things that we're seeing in the construction industry today is the trend to go to what we call prefabrication. The fact that you know, you can really speed up a project if you aren't trying to build everything on site and you can also do it much more cheaper. McKinsey has a study out and they believe that over time if, if of comp of construction company will engage with prefabrication, they can reduce the project timelines 20 to 50% and lower the cost up to 20% and with ifs is heritage in manufacturing. It's really a perfect marriage for construction companies because construction companies need the project management, the installation, you know, the change management that goes along with some of those back-office things. They also a lot of time have to do service. But if you really want to get that competitive advantage, if you can take advantage of the prefab, which is really manufacturing high, if this is heritage, he could really have a, a full, complete S, you know, solution from one supplier. >>There's a huge trend in home-building actually. You would, you see, you know, modular homes and kind of the future of it. But uh, so how does that affect you guys? I mean you, you prefab something that resonates with you, is that sort of more of a generic statement across the customer base or >>it's certainly an area where we're focusing on more. Um, we also have an automation, uh, division that really focuses on, um, automation for industries. And that's an area that it's kind of a manufacturing type of thing. They build panels and those sorts of things. So we're definitely seeing it >>well. So, okay. So I got to ask you, so when you pulled out the Gartner magic quadrant, I said, okay, it always is. Ifs isn't the leader that, that, that, that might've helped. Right. Okay. So you don't get fired now, but choose the leader, but then you started peeling the onion. He had to do due diligence. So what kinds of things did you look at? What kind of tires did you kick? Piers, did you talk to and be, I'm interested in what your, what you learned. Well, I'll touch on one key element and >>we can get in as many sub elements as you like. The selection process for us took several months. Um, I think initially we really pared it down to about eight packages that we were seriously considering. Then down to four and then eventually down to two. And what really, really intrigued us about ifs was the fact that they are not construction centric. So we really had a big decision to make internally, which was do we want to just get on the bandwagon and do what everyone else in construction is doing or do we really wanna you know, risk versus reward and go after something special. So ifs, they are in, you name it, manufacturing is obviously key. Aerospace engineering, race cars I saw today, I didn't know that. So that was a big selling point for us. And the plan is to retire your mainframe and go into the cloud. >>Yes, yes, yes. So IBM got you in a headlock. >>We've been friends for a long time. Good company. Um, w what's that been like just to sort of, uh, that the thought of, you know, going to the cloud. W how, how is, you know, the it folks you know, responded to that. Um, how has that changed their sort of role brokers versus all? Again, I think in construction organizations, technology is important, but it is not what makes the wheels turn. So I'm trying to bring in all of that iron and infrastructure and build it out and configure it ourselves and then maintain it for the long haul. Just not something that was value added for us. In addition, um, if you've ever worked with Oracle, which is a close partner of ifs, but there is a lot of licensing caveats and a lot of things you've got to worry about if you're going to go it alone by going with the managed cloud solution, we're sort of partnering and trusting ifs to take that on for us so we can focus on taking care of our companies, our customers, and doing what we do best. Right? So, okay, so you're still going to be an Oracle. You just won't be, it won't be as visible. We use Oracle too. We're a Salesforce customer, so Hey, Oracle is behind there, but no offense. >>Ah, I know you guys did >>for the distinction as well, right? Because even if you are going to have portions of Oracle that are running your system, you've got to have some Oracle experts on staff. You know, if you're going to have all of the infrastructure, you gotta have infrastructure folks who understand how it all ties together. So on the surface it could seem like a simple decision to do it in house or go to the cloud. Far from it. >>Yeah. You know, I think certainly one of the things that we see in a lot of different industries, but certainly in construction, the plant had always been that you bring together different, different solutions and you try to both and together and then some of that becomes a lot more concerning. You know, some of the technology behind it. But one of the things that with the ifs solution is the fact that from one provider you can do, you know, do the whole life cycle. So then some of the have it in the managed cloud where we take care of it for you. So then that takes away some of those technology issues and then you can focus on your core competencies. So Rhonda would agree generally >>with what you're saying. I mean some probably say that for most companies that you know, the technology is not the core differentiator. Obviously this for Google, sure. For Amazon, for Facebook, but for CIO is I talked to, they go people process, technology, technology is the least of my problems. It's like I was going to come and go, it's going to change. I can deal with that. It's the, if the people in the process issues. So having said that, I'm still interested in how concerned you were about peeling the onion on the cloud, what's behind it, the security model, all that stuff in terms of your due diligence, you know, with any cloud based solution, there's some concern obviously. But, but in working with ifs, we, we asked a ton of questions and they gave us a ton of answers. So the comfort level was there. Um, the industry's been going to the cloud now for quite some time. And to be brutally honest, if you're not going there, um, you need to be strongly considered >>in Microsoft is our partner with the cloud. We're on, you know, using Microsoft Azure. So it's not like, you know, it's one of the largest cloud provider. So it's not like, you know, it's, it's something that you have to worry about. You've got the, you know, the backstop of Microsoft behind you as well. You know, I'm sorry, go, go, go. I was going to say, I think one of the things that's interesting is you talk about all your different divisions and you're really trying to bring a lot of different companies together on one system. And one of the things that I, you know, as I've seen the things that's change management becomes really something that you really have to consider. I mean, how have you seen that part of the implementation going? Has there been stepping in the easy piece for you? It's not been an easy piece and that's one of the pieces that we're still working on. >>Um, I don't know if any organization that says that they're really, really good at change. Um, but we've recognized that really the, our organization is a group of entrepreneurs and we've encouraged people to have their own business, but we're really trying to streamline and get some consistency across the organization. That's a little bit of a culture shift for us. So that change management piece is a piece that we're really trying to get our arms around now and prepare, um, the organization for that team. Just trying to get my head around your software still. You guys do change management? I TSM. Well, you'll change management is really some of the, um, consulting that goes along with it and certainly ifs and AR, we've got many partners who can, you know, help our customers go through that. Because when you're going through a digital transformation, you know, you're taking people who have been using something for 50 years, being out, especially out in the field doing those things. And now you're trying to figure out what are the right processes to put in place to get what the business needs. And in some cases they might have to do things differently. So you really have to think that through and how you're going to roll those out. >>So now, is this your first ifs world? Yes, it is. It is. What final thoughts, you know, things you've, you've taken away or you're going to bring back to your teams? >>Well, yeah, Boston is a favorite city of mine. I was just glad to be here just for that. But, and we've just been here a little bit. I've already picked up some things on leadership. I was involved the um, >>Oh, the women's leadership breakfast this morning. So there's already been some things that I think we can take back to users and share with them, particularly around change management and trying to get people comfortable and understanding why they're uncomfortable with change. You know? So it, rod, you're next on the line. So I'm sure you were taking notes, pretty attentive in the sessions and just getting started, right? >>No, you know, I have, and one of the things for me that was most, I guess rewarding is, is the partner network. All of the vendors. There's a number of things with our implementation that we're still trying to sort out OCR for example, being one of them. Are we going to go there or are we gonna wait until later? Just different technologies and maybe add ons that we may want to take advantage of. All you've got to do is walk down the hallways and there's, there's people ready to talk to you about it. So that's, that's been kind of intriguing. >>Okay. Excellent. Well yeah, I said earlier I was, I was surprised and impressed at the sort of size of the ecosystem and its great. Well good luck to you guys. Really wish you the best and thanks so much for coming on the cube and sharing your story Cindy. Great to see you. Always pleasure. All right, take care. Thank you for watching everybody. We're back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching the cube from Boston ifs world 2019 right back.

>>Hey everyone. Welcome back to Miami. Lisa Martin here live with the Cube at IFS Unleashed 2022. We're so excited to be here. We just had a great conversation with Ifss, CEO of Darren Rouse. Now we've got another exciting conversation. F1 is here. You know how much I love f1. Christian Peterson joins us as well, the Chief Product Officer at ifs, and Sean Edwards IT business partner at Aston Martin. F1. Guys, it's great to have you on the program. Thank you for having >>Us. Thank you >>Very much. We were talking about F one. We probably could have an entire conversation just on that, but Christian, I wanna talk with you. It's been three years since the Cube has covered ifs obviously for obvious reasons during that time. So much momentum has happened. IFS cloud was launched about 18 months ago. Give our audience an o, a flavor of IFS, cloud and some of the milestones that you've hit in such a short time period. >>Yeah, I mean IFS cloud is really transformational in many ways. It's transformational for first and foremost for our customers in what enables them to do, but also transformational for us from a technology perspective, how we work and how we do everything. And at the end of the day, it has really surfaced, served around the the, the fact of what we need to do for our customers. And what we saw our customers often do back then, or any company, was they were out looking for EAP solutions or FSM Solutions or EAM Solutions or what have you. And then they were trying to stitch it all together and we, we said like, Hang on a second, these these traditional software s, those are some that I'm guilty. You know, there's some that we actually invented over the years together with analysts. So we invented EER P and we invented CRM and EAM and all these different things. >>But at the end of the day, customers really want a solution to what they are, they are what they're dealing with. And so in these conversations it became very clear that and very repeated conclusions from the conversations that customers wanted something that could manage and help them optimize the use of their assets. Regardless of what industry you're in, assets is such a key component. Either you are using your assets or you're producing assets. Second thing is really get the best use of of your people, your teams and your crew. How do you get the right people on the right job at the same time? How do you assemble the right crew with the right set of skills in the crew? Get them to the right people at the same time. So, and then the final thing is of course customers, you know all the things that you need to do to get customers to answer these ultimate questions, Will you buy from this company again? And they should say yes. That's the ultimate results of moments of service. So that's how we bring it all together and that's what we have been fast at work at. That's what IFS cloud is all about. >>And you, you talked about IFS cloud, being able to to help customers, orchestrate assets, people, customers, Aston Martin being one of those customers. Shawn, you came from ifs so you have kind of the backstory but just give the audience a little bit of, of flavor of your role at Aston Martin and then let's dig into the smart factory. >>Sure. So I previously worked at IFS as a manufacturing consultant. So my bread and butter is production planning in the ERP sector. So we, I Aston Martin didn't have an ERP system pre IFS or a legacy system that wasn't working for them and the team couldn't rely upon it. So what we did was bring IFS in. I was the consultant there and as IFS always preached customer first, well customer first did come and I jumped to support the team. So we've implemented a fully RP solution to manage the production control and the material traceability all the way through from design until delivery to track. And we've mo most recently implemented a warehouse solution at Trackside as well. So we are now tracking our parts going out with the garage. So that's a really exciting time for RFS. In terms of the smart factory, it's not built yet. >>We're we're supposed to move next year. So that's really exciting cause we're quadrupling our footprint. So going from quite a small factory spread out across the North Hampton Share countryside, we're going into one place quadruple in our footprint. And what we're gonna start looking at is using the technology we're implementing there. So enabling 5G to springboard our IFFs implementations going forward with the likes of Internet of things to connect our 15 brand new CMC machines, but also things like R F I D. So that comes with its own challenges on a Formula One car, but it's all about speed of data capture, single point of truth. And IFFs provides that >>And well, Formula One, the first word that comes to mind is speed. >>Absolutely. Second >>Word is crazy. >>We, we are very unique in terms of most customers Christian deals with, they're about speed but also about profit and efficiency. That doesn't matter to us. It is all about time. Time is our currency and if we go quicker in designing and manufacturing, which ifs supports ultimately the cargo quicker. So speed is everything. >>And and if we, if we think of of people, customers and assets at Asset Martin F one, I can't, I can't imagine the quantity of assets that you're building every race weekend and refactoring. >>Absolutely. So a Formula one car that drives out of the garage is made up of 13,000 car parts, most of which, 50% of which we've made in house. So we have to track that all the way through from the smallest metallic component all the way up to the most complex assembly. So orchestrating that and having a single point of truth for people to look at and track is what IFFs has provided us. >>Christian, elaborate on that a little bit in terms of, I mean, what you're facilitating, F1 is such a great example of of speed we talked about, but the fact that you're setting up the car every, every other weekend maybe sometimes back to back weeks, so many massive changes going on. You mentioned 50% of those 13,000 parts you manufacture. Absolutely. Talk about IFS as being a catalyst for that. >>I mean the, it's, it's fascinating with Formula One, but because as a technology geek like me, it's really just any other business on steroids. I mean we talk, we talk about this absolutely high tech, super high tech manufacturing, but even, even before that, the design that goes in with CFDs and how you optimize for different things and loose simulation software for these things goes into manufacturing, goes into wind tunnels and then goes on track. But guess what, when it's on track, it's an asset. It's an asset that streams from how many sensors are on the car, >>I think it's over 10,000 >>Sensors, over 10,000 sensors that streams maybe at 50 hertz or 50 readings. So every lap you just get this mountain of data, which is really iot. So I always say like F one if one did IOT before anybody invented the term. >>Absolutely. >>Yep. You know, F1 did machine learning and AI before anybody thought about it in terms of pattern recognition and things like that with the data. So that's why it's fascinating to work with an organization like that. It's the, it's the sophistication around the technologies and then the pace what they do. It's not that what they do is actually so different. >>It is, it absolutely isn't. We just have to do it really quickly. Really >>Quickly. Right. And the same thing when you talk about parts. I mean I was fascinated of a conversation with, with one of your designers that says that, you know, sometimes we are, we are designing a part and this, the car is now ready for production but the previous version of that part has not even been deployed on the car yet. So that's how quick the innovation comes through and it's, it's, it's fascinating and that's why we like the challenge that Esther Martin gives us because if we can, if we can address that, there's a lot of businesses we can make happy with that as far, >>So Sha I talk a little bit about this is, so we're coming up, there's what four races left in the 2022 season, but this is your busy time because that new car, the 23 car needs to be debuted in what February? So just a few months time? >>Absolutely. So it's a bit cancer intuitive. So our busiest time is now we're ramping up into it. So we co, we go into something called car build which is from December to December to February, which is our end point and there's no move in that point. The car has gotta go around that track in February. So we have got to make those 13,000 components. We've gotta design 'em, we've gotta make 'em and then we've gotta get 'em to the car in February for our moment of service. They said it on stage. Our moment of service as a manufacturing company is that car going around the track and we have to do it 24 times next year and we've gotta start. Well otherwise we're not gonna keep up. >>I'm just gonna ask you what a, what a moment, what's a moment of service in f1 and you're saying basically getting that >>Functional car >>On the track quickly, as quickly as possible and being able to have the technology underpinning that's really abstracting the complexity. >>Absolutely. So I would say our customer ultimately is the driver and the fans they, they need to have a fast car so they can sport it and they ultimately drive it around the track and go get first place and be competitive. So that is our moment of service to our drivers is to deliver that car 24 times next year. >>I imagine they might be a little demanding >>They are and I think it's gonna be exciting with Alonzo coming in, could the driver if we've gotta manage that change and he'll have new things that he wants to try out on a car. So adds another level of complexity to that. >>Well how influential are the drivers in terms some of the, the manufacturing? Like did they, are they give me kind of a a sense of how Alon Fernando Alanzo your team and ifs maybe collaborate, maybe not directly but >>So Alonzo will come in and suggest that he wants cars to work a certain way so he will feed back to the team in terms of we need this car, we need this car part to do this and this car part to do that. So then we're in a cycle when he first gets into the car in that February, we've then gotta turnaround car parts based off his suggestions. So we need to do that again really quickly and that's where IFS feeds in. So we have to have the release and then the manufacturer of the component completely integrated and that's what we achieve with IFFs and >>It needs to be really seamless. >>Absolutely. If, if we don't get it right, that car doesn't go out track so there's no moving deadline. >>Right. That's the probably one of the industries where deadlines do not move. Absolutely. We're so used to things happening in tech where things shift and change and reorgs, but this is one where the dates are set in their firm. >>Absolutely. And we have to do anything we can do to get that car on the track. So yeah, it's just a move. >>Christian, talk about the partnership a little bit from your standpoint in terms of how influential has Aston Martin F1 been in IFS cloud and its first 18 months. I was looking at some stats that you've already gotten 400,000 plus users in just a short time period. How influential are your customers in the direction and even the the next launch 22 R too? >>I mean our customers do everything plain and simple. That's that's what it is. And we have, we have a partnership, I think about every single customer as a partner of ours and we are partnering in taking technology to the next level in terms of, of the outputs and the benefits it can create for our customers. That's what it's all, all about. And I, I always think about these, these three elements I think I mentioned in our state as well. I think the partnership we have is a partnership around innovation. Innovation doesn't not only come from IFS or the technology partner, it comes from discussions, requirements, opportunities, what if like all these things. So innovation comes from everywhere. There's technology driven innovation, there's customer driven innovation, but that's part of the partnership. The second part of the partnership is inspiration. So with innovation you inspire. So when you innovate on something new that inspires new innovation and new thinking and that's again the second part of the partnership. And then the third part is really iterate and execute, right? Because it's great that we can now innovate and we can agree on what we need to do, but now we need to put it into products, put it in technology and put it into actual use. That's when the benefits comes and that's when we can start bringing the bell. >>And I think it's really intrinsically linked. I mean if you look at progress with Formula One teams and their innovation, it's all underpinned by our technology partners and that's why it's so important. The likes of Christian pushes the product and improves it and innovates it because then we can realize the benefits and ultimately save time and go faster. So it's really important that our, our partners and certainly inform one, push the boundaries and find that technology. >>And I think one of the things that we also find very, very important is that we actually understand our customers and can talk the language. So I think that was one of the key things in our engagement, Martin from the beginning is that we had a set of people that really understand Formula One felt it on their bodies and can have the conversation. So when the Formula One teams they say something, then we actually understand what we're talking about. So for instance, when we talk about, you know, track side inventory, well it's not that different from what a field service technician have in his van when he goes service. The only difference is when you see something happening on track, you'll see the parts manager go out to the pit lane with a tablet and say like, oh we need this, we need that, we need this and we need that. And then we'll go back and pick it and put it on the car and the car is service and maintain and off go. Absolutely. >>Yeah that speed always impresses me. >>It's unbelievable. >>Shannon, last question for you. From a smart factory perspective, you said you're moving in next year. What are some of the things that you are excited about that you think are really gonna be transformative but IFS is doing? >>So I think what I'm really excited about once we get in is using the technology they've already put in terms of 5G networks to sort of springboard that into a further IFS implementation. Maybe IFFs cloud in terms of we always struggle to keep the system up to date with, with what's physically happening so that the less data entry and the more automatic sort of data capture, the better it is for the formula on team cuz we improve our our single point of truth. So I'm really excited to look at the internet of things and sort of integrate our CNC machines to sort of feed that information back into ifs. But also the RFID technology I think is gonna be a game changer when we go into the new factory. So really >>Excited. Excellent. Well well done this year. We look forward to seeing Alonso join the team in 23. Fingers >>Crossed. >>Okay. Fingers crossed. Christian, Jeanette, it's been a pleasure to have you on the program. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and how ifs asked Martin are working together, how you really synergistically working together. We appreciate your time. >>Thank you very much for having us. Our >>Thanks for having us. And go Aston >>Woo go Aston, you already here first Lisa Martin, no relation to Aston Martin, but well, I wanna thank Christian Peterson and Shannon Edwards for joining me, talking about IFS and Aston Martin team and what they're doing at Speed and Scale. Stick around my next guest joins me in a minute. >>Thank you.

>>Bach from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering KWS executive sub brought to you by extension. >>Welcome back everyone to the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executives summit here in Las Vegas, part of AWS reinvent. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We're joined by two guests for this segment. We have Mamadou BA. He is the senior director of cloud technology at Anthem. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Mamadou and Sean mulch and Donnie, he is AWS security lead at Accenture. Thank you so much Sean. Thank you for having us. Rebecca, glad to be with you. So let's start with you mama. Do tell our viewers a little bit about Anthem, the business. >>Sure. So Anthem is a healthcare company. We're serving around 40 million members and we're committed to simplifying healthcare and make it more accessible and affordable for people. >>So committed to simplifying healthcare, which is, I'm imagining the driving force for your cloud journey, but, but what were some of the other factors that led you to the cloud? It's >>really, we want to make healthcare more accessible for people and more affordable. We want to meet our consumers where they are and meet them using mediums that they want us to use. So it's going through all the data we have. We have 40 million members who serving today looking at the data and find the ways to build customized and personalized experiences to meet them where they are and how they want to be met and also improve to health care for them. >>So what kinds of personalized customized experiences are you talking about and what does the cloud enable? >>So really when you look at, we have a variety of members, young children to adults and people who are Medicare and Medicaid, they have various needs. When you look at people's medical needs, you look at their financial needs, their social needs. What works for me might not work for your, might not work for him. So it's understanding the person as a whole and meeting them where they want to be a mentor really. >>So Sean, how does does, does Accenture, what does Accenture bring to this partnership? How are you helping Anthem realize its goals? >>Sure. So, I mean, I would say this happens under the guise of cloud and at Anthem broadly as well. Right? So Accenture, Anthem is, has Accenture is one of its largest partners. We're proud to be one of, have Anthem is one of our largest clients of course, and all the way from a lot of the outsourcing operations from the business operations side providing cost-effective business operations for addressing all those millions of subscribers that they have to of course helping them innovate both within cloud, within a lot of their other technology needs on premise from a lot of, they're from a lot of like transformations in technology. That's, I would say that covers the gamut specifically within, I'd say where we're helping both strategically and operationally on a strategic front. This includes mapping some of the business needs to um, how to various cloud technologies, uh, where it's a multicloud and a hybrid cloud approach, but also specifically on AWS and, and also about how we can help empower Anthem to realize its cloud journey and potential there with their workforce. >>We, their cloud technology organization and how we empower that movement going forward. Uh, there are a number of other drivers on the operational side and that includes of course, minimizing any future technical debt. Um, and that's, that's a big journey of course, or a big pattern. I would say that that is prevalent across multiple clients, but also realizing comprehensive monitoring, save preventive guardrails for services that then allows developers to have the freedom to experiment, to enable rapid prototyping. And also of course, uh, transparent, uh, operations from a cost perspective. So these would be a couple of ways. >>So mama, do you talk about the ways in which you are innovating in this cloud space? What are, what are some of the most exciting projects that you're working on? Right. So >>we have a, a large number of projects, but NTM as a whole, since we're serving 40 plus million members, we have thousands of applications, petabytes of data. So some of the projects we're working on today, we have a landing zone on AWS and we have some applications in AWS. What we need to meet our application teams. Also internally, we need to help them focus on the business drivers focused on healthcare. So we're working on providing them a nimble platform so they're not worried about day to day it and providing them a self service catalog. And we understand that there's a lot of complexity in healthcare or when you have all this data you need to make sure it's secure. There's a lot of regulatory challenges, so we don't want our application teams to have to deal with all those things. So it's really putting together, identifying the services, AI services, machine learning services, container and serverless, and building a framework for them to have access to all those services that are preapproved and make those self-service for the application teams. >>So that's our service catalog project and allowed them to use all that in an AWS account where they're self sufficient. So we were working closely with Accenture on their end. What we found was while the technology is very valuable, the people and process aspect of it, it's we have to get alignment across all the internal divisions, working closely and bringing our security teams on the table, our data teams, our operation teams, and working together to say how can we empower our developers internally to focus on business deliverables? So building that catalog, provide them a reference, a provider for reference architecture or reference implementation, identifying skills gaps and recognizing them, working with HR to hire new talent and reskill our existing talent, but also leveraging our partners to bring in that talent and give us various ways of looking at the same problem. >>So I saw you Shawn, nodding along with what a lot of mama do was talking about in terms of the alignment. Can you talk about that challenge and how you work with clients to make sure that you are bringing people along? Because the people and the processes are the most important part, but they're often the hardest part too. >>They're are definitely the hardest part. And of course we, I mean behind every grade success story, there's so many challenges, right? And, and one of the things we do of course is not just try to bring our best people that are technically sharp for Anthem, but that understand the client that understand the business needs. For example, it's not just about technology, but it's also about how it's applied to support certain business operations like mergers and acquisitions or as a strategy grows from one cloud to multi-cloud. So it's about bringing those folks that help align or understand those goals organizationally and how they're realized technically. In addition to that, I would say it's also bonding very, very, very closely with leadership, with architects, with operations personnel and the developers and engineers at Anthem to work side by side and realizing many of these goals or many of our shared goals and Anthem's overall vision. And >>the good thing there is really the cloud is aligned with the corporate strategy. So there's a lot of leadership alignment. And what we found is really trying to find that balance between autonomy and alignment. One, the teams to be autonomous. We're providing them with self-service, want them to innovate and get to market quickly, but we also want them to be aligned with the company and enterprise best practices and regulatory standards, so it's a fine balance, but I think we're making great progress with our partners. The processes are being reevaluated. Every process we were saying because we've done it this way for all these years and we were successful at doing it, doesn't mean that that's the way forward. We want to bring everyone together and think of a process holistically, not this is my team, I'm doing this and passing it to the next team. It's bring your best people and let's solve the problem together. >>Right. At the same time, I would say it's not siloed again between say architecture, operations and security either before or after. It's about bringing, I would say these, these three legs of that stool together or are together throughout the process and I think that's something we've done as well. One of the things we've done is establish a tiger team essentially right for to, to power through some of our challenges as we build out a new landing zone. As we move towards implementing some of these self capabilities and plan for migration of I would say a hundreds or potentially thousands of applications to the cloud. It's about getting security to shape policy, getting buy in from there as well. Ensuring that when design decisions are made from an architecture perspective, we take into consideration not just the operational side of Anthem but the operational arm of Accenture that supports and enables some of that work as well and how we can make that their lives easier and how we can make a, minimize any risks of the business, any disruptions, outages, et cetera, by way of good design and by getting their buy in and making sure that every internal stakeholders are, >>yeah. Yeah. Really our um, our emphasis is on quality by design, by bringing the right stakeholders, help architect it properly, and then have some process control and monitoring in place and having some key metrics that we look at. How long is it taking a developer to get an AWS account? How long does it take them to get access to a service that they need to meet? That business function letter is an AI service or a server less the application that they're trying to build. Evaluating those and then trying to improve our process >>and by keeping everyone in the loop, I mean it's this dynamic process that is that I'm sure is very complicated, but by with everyone on the same page, they then feel more engaged in the process and that they matter more, which, which also I'm sure drives productivity. Yes. >>Times w whenever you have a lot of people, sometimes there's no agreement on the decision, but you have to be at a point where when you come to an agreement, you might not have a hundred percent consensus all the time, but if 70 or 80% agree, the other people still feel included, their needs have been heard, their concerns will be addressed one way or the other, and they're willing to move forward with the group. It's not because I didn't get my way. I'm not supporting the business. They understand that and there's some trade offs. >>So I wanted to, I want to switch gears here and talk a little bit about security because health health care data represents some of the biggest security breaches of industry data. So how, how biz cloud infrastructure and your security processes and practices help help counteract that. >>Sure. So before you even get in the account do account is designed to meet all our Hampton security best practices and are based on our AWS agreement. Those best practices listed on there and working with our partners to make sure that by the time you get in an account, it's secure, you only have access to services we gave you. And for each of those services we do a full analysis on it, look at the various attack patterns. For instance, I do encryption and just ensure that the developers have a safe environment to experiment and develop. That's why we're building the self service catalog. It's a self service, but we put the services in there after we evaluated them, we feel comfortable with them. Some services, let's say some HIPAA eligible services. We want to ensure if your application is a HIPAA applicate eligible application, you, you're using those services, so having to control them process in place before you even get to account once you get it. And we have detective and preventive controls in place to alert us in case of any, anyone trying to use a service they're not supposed to use. >>Sean, I want to ask you about some research that Accenture did in 2017 the healthcare industry will be one of the top two industries to face the most digital disruption and the next three years. This was part of the technology vision survey. What, how, how do you even begin to to talk to clients through this, hold their hands through this enormously disruptive period in the healthcare industry. What's your advice and what do you think about the role of big data and analytics going forward? >>Right, absolutely. I think so. There's definitely a tremendous amount of disruption and then it's where a number of large, some of our large clients enterprises really have to go through their own transformational process, their own disruption process for the better, right. As you have a number of different start ups as you have a number of different new entrance into the field and one of the things they cloud technologies do is oftentimes it's not necessarily a first mover advantage, but it's, it's actually the lowest common denominator that if you're not using some of these services, whether it's the predictive capabilities for example, or some of the other analytics capabilities that are offered. So whether it's predict, whether it's Sage maker, et cetera, within AWS and other capabilities, these are really the new foundation and so many companies either no matter of size are actually leveraging these to build for a better experience. And one of the things we are looking at is how we can work with our clients to actually get them there as soon as possible and or use that again as the lowest common denominator and build their own differentiators bill bring to bear some of their experience throughout. Uh, I would say a years potentially decades been valuable experience products of services and actually turbocharge them for lack of a better word, >>mamma do large scale cloud transformation, innovation. This is a monumental challenge. How do you, but it's also a balancing act. How do you make sure that you are balancing the needs in adjacent areas like applications and onboarding and dev ops? How do you, >>so it's, it's really having that alignment and everyone understanding that this is a part of our corporate mission. We're trying to improve health care and reduce the cost, make it more affordable, improve people's lives. So all the teams that are leaders are coming together. Like you mentioned, we have a cloud tiger team and saying for my business unit or my application teams, these are the capabilities I need to support on AWS can do enterprise build up platform for me so I can focus on my business. So it's bringing people together, understanding where they are. Some application teams are more mature than others. Finding really ways to understand our internal customers. Also because we have many application teams and business divisions and having a process while working with, you can have application migration, we can help you migrate to the cloud, but that's not the goal. >>We want to help you understand the services you're using. It's enabling the application teams and providing them with a reference architecture or sometimes reference implementation team. We have a cloud enablement team for instance, where it's an internal consulting group where you go in and say, this is my application, helped me find the best way to move this application to cloud and the best way to improve it over time. So it's bringing everyone together and working closely with HR, the training teams, the vendor management teams, there's, it's almost everyone has to come together to scale this. If it's one team, it's easy to do it, but when you want to make it enterprise wide you have to really scale it and have the leaders aligned. Everyone contributing to it. It is all about alignment. >>It is. It is. It definitely is. Great. Yeah. Just wanted to comment earlier about the piece on security as well. Right, so we talked about, of course he talked about mama was talked about the service catalog, service introduction, so one of the things we do is as part of that alignment, getting everybody's thoughts in terms of how we see this working. Looking at that picture holistically, also looking at what is the, what is the consumer experience? Was the desired experience, is that how do we secure that? How do we make sure that it's frictionless and internally, how does that translate into all of the giving the developers freedom and having those guard but still having some guardrails in place as well as some comprehensive visibility and monitoring. There are about a good dozen services if not more, that provide different points of data metrics, alarms within AWS, but how do we do all of this at scale, at Anthem scale, and then back to the self service perspective. Not just enable security and as part of the organization to monitor, but how every part of the organization is accountable for ensuring security, be it an application team, be it part of the dev sec ops process, be at the networking teams, infrastructure teams, et cetera. So how is everybody informed and how do we bring that level of self service, not just from an application onboarding or migration perspective, but also from a security perspective. >>Yeah. Yeah. It's all about really enabling the application teams also because we can tell you you need to do these five things before you go to production, but if you don't know how to do them, you will not get to production. Instead of doing that, providing you some references, providing you have people you can talk to that can help you go through that. And everyone collaborating as let's help this application team get to production instead of we need to do these things before we approve you. Great. And they're from an alignment perspective. Again, we've gotten folks from cloud strategy, operating model and governance, architecture, um, operations, the actual network team, uh, in different parts of security. Yeah. Database of course, database, data, warehouses, et cetera. And then different parts of security, be it all the way from encryption, key management, the preventive side of things to more of the operational side as well. >>And how all of these folks come together with, if I may add some fantastic executive support on the end in front, um, across, across our board, um, to make things a reality. And I think it's been, we didn't, we didn't start with that model. We did that model out of necessity because when we started our cloud journey, we did have multiple teams taking care of their area. They did their job properly, but then there were some tickets waiting in queues. And it was when you look at the end to end process, it was slowing down the application teams. So we said, how do we help accelerate this stuff? Let's bring everyone together. Not, I did my work and I'm giving it to the next year, but let's collaborate and make sure we're doing the work as one team. >>Well, mama do. Sean, thank you so much. I've really fascinating conversation about re-imagining healthcare and how the cloud helps us do that. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us. Stay tuned for more of the cubes live coverage of the Accenture executive summit coming up in just a little bit.

>> All right, Cool. We'll go with the first round of this, and we'll see how the central roles perfect. Uh, three, two and one. All right, I'm here with our guests. Chase Phelps, the director of sports science at Stanford University. Chase has an amazing background, and I was fortunate enough to work underneath him at Stanford. Chase is more than versatile. He has a deep understanding in regards to human physiology, but also the technology involved in monitoring athletes and performance in general. So, Chase, I'll let you take it away here, and I can't talk about yourself and the journey that you tell to get to where you are. I personally heard it multiple times. It's quite interesting. And for those listeners out there is going to be a good experience to hear exactly how someone chases esteem, Got to where he is, how the road's not always quite a straight line. >> Well, I appreciate you having me on II. You must be getting the checks in the mail to have that type of intro because that's way over the top on how good I am with my job. But I appreciate it. Um, so I think for me. You know, it started, I think, for a lot of us being in the gym as an athlete, Uh, you know, kind of being one of those guys has gotta work harder. Teo, you know, catch up with the other people who are coming naturally talented. So I started office of your general meathead in the gym in high school, doing all the dumb lab bench incline bench declined, bench checked back into, you know, all the flies, you, Khun Dio, and kind of started to figure out that, ah, I needed, you know, um or scientific way, I guess toe train myself and started out going to a velocity sports informants and, you know, one of those big kind of box performance gyms and got hooked up really, really lucky. Got hooked up with some people who at the time, I didn't know where were ahead of the game, but kind of started giving me the wise behind, you know, all the things I was doing in the gym and sort of kind of carbon that path for laying the foundation. So to say so I went to Undergrad, play the cross in college, Um, and they're so science piece started the internships to be a traditional sec coach on the floor, huh? I did. Let's see. Old Dominion. Radford, Virginia Attack. I AMG performance. Um, you know, just kind of laying the coaching trenches, laying down in the trenches, trying tow, kind of get myself the experience necessary to move ahead of Attritional SEC coach. So I got really lucky and that I got a job at Hampton University is an assistant. And within about seven months of being there, the director at the time up and left and they had nobody to help out with football, they have to take over. And really at an age that was way too young for me to be in that role, and so that was kind of my first, you know, probably fire experience, being twenty three years old, heading up, you know, the one double a football for him, still division one football team where I >> it >> was pretty pretty novice at the time. And while I didn't mess anything up to bad, it was definitely I would change a lot of what I did at the time. So I looked back on an experience that was extremely valuable. But from there, I actually had a stent where I was unemployed. So ah, little life lesson is, I took somebody's word on a job without having it written out and quit my job at Hampton, thinking I had this position set up and literally it fell through. The guy was like, Hey, listen, it's not gonna happen. I don't know what to tell you. I'm really sorry. So for seven months, I worked at local gyms, private personal training, training athletes on the side. You're basically doing anything I needed to do. Teo maintain coaching, but also keeping income going. Ah, and it's kind of funny because a lot of people don't appreciate that type of setting and the personal training. You're either strength coach. It's not personal training, you know. And, ah, a lot of the stuff that I do now, I still you know, I remember picking out because I was working with the client with rheumatoid arthritis, right? So, like your ability to to regress and a purple issues exercise selections for somebody who's sixty years old and is not very mobile translates very well to return to play in an athlete who just had maybe on a C L surgery on. So I looked back on that time is kind of a weird one in my life, but it was extremely valuable, you know, and my experiences. So I got really lucky. And the networking piece fell together and ended up working with the Naval Special Operations and kind of finding a role in the humor for men's branch. There, Bro is there for a little over three years. I >> it >> was just incredibly lucky to work with some of the people there, Mark Stevenson and and a lot of other guys who are still working there. They're still there now, but they're just they're pushing the field for doing a lot of things behind the scenes that I think really kind of kicked off the sports science. See Dick in the in the U. S and the last, you know, six to eight years on DH. So I was really fortunate toe kind of diversify. My experiences there really start looking at performance and training. I don't want to say like that buzzword of holistic, but just how my diversifying my ability to understand which discipline is doing, whether it's a mental performance coach, our nutritionist or sex, our physical therapist. But how can I better understand those fields, too? Then, you know, make sure that everything I'm doing is complimenting what they're doing on DH. So I was able to land the job at Stanford initially just to run the sports science department. But I also got a little coaching duties. On the side is I work with men soccer. So it's been, Ah, it's been all over the place, you know, traditionally in athletics, but, you know, a little bit of Gen file here. Besides, well, >> so Chase bast fully passed over Hiss lacrosse career, right? And how many was that? Multi time All America. Is that correct? >> I had a couple of years where else? Pretty successful. So, uh, >> and I think that's extremely important to highlight because being an athlete, you deal with all these departments firsthand. You see it from their perspective. And so one thing that Chase has really taught me, I was going forward learning about how you contain to challenge yourself, to put yourself into positions that other people are end. And how do you then think about your actions and what you're going to do as a sports scientist in regard to how and not on ly influences the athlete but the coaches and other staff around him and being an athlete, you firsthand get to experience how it is to have someone else trying to intervene on your daily routine. And that's also mention that Chase is now someone who on what level of ju jitsu he's in. But I know he's tough enough to beat the daylights out of me. And that's something as well has taught me. Is that put yourself in situations where you have to be a beginner again and challenge yourself to have tto learn from Square one. We get caught in these ruts of progress, progress, progress. You go from a beginner. When you first learned how to swing a baseball bat to now you're planned higher level travelling. Baseball is part of your life for myself. Basketball, the chase has taught me, is really embrace those opportunities of struggle and whatever way that comes in its shape and form and put you in those positions. So you have the ability to actually learn from that. And now mention that chase in regards to beat an athlete I think there's many things that we overlook as coaches. We apply the idea of an external load, right. We give them sets and wraps and weights and we write out these long workout for next six months what someone was going to dio. We can't predict the internal load and be an athlete. You understand how it is to not sleep, how it is to maybe stay out a little too late with some of your friends, but how that affects you in regards and athletic setting to reach the goals that you want to reach. So I want to dive in the topic a little bit about internal versus external load. That's something that you really challenged myself to learn about when I was with you. We talked about that in regards to H R V sleep and all the above said, I want to hear a little bit about your take on internal versus external load. What specifically is at turns >> out someone, he said, is being an athlete. I think that goes, You know, it's It's almost like every year that you are in the field. You separate yourself from what it feels like to go through the workouts and the daily grind. So to say right, it's really easy to write up a bard and have no thought process about how somebody feels on day six of a week where they've been pulling all day school two and a half hour, three hour practice our weights and you're like, Oh, man, we got a great dynamic effort. Lower body session finished office. Um, you know, if our glory body squats like you know it's It's just really easy to forget how how things can accumulate and how you know you're just trying to kind of that times get through it all and you head above water. Whereas we're thinking about optimizing, for they may be thinking about Hey, I just need to know what my head down and get through today. So I think it was a great point. But I think going on to the external love peace, obviously the U. S. In the last, you know, six, seventy nine years has exploded trying to catch up, maybe with Australian, The Europe of the world have been, um, really kind on the forefront of this, uh, objective collection of needs analysis for sport. You know, whether that's an external load of what they're doing, the mechanical demands of the sports. So how far they're running? What are the physical characteristics that you see? See environmental capabilities, as in, you know, beads with velocities, where they simply gotta Iran hominy times that they're going to change direction, really understanding the demands of the sport versus the internal loading piece, which you're going to be Howard, these individuals responding to those demands and I think the key word there being individual, we know that certain athletes are always going to be pushed and filtered into sports that there, uh, naturally, good at right. Like, I think we all tend a favor, things that we've been successful at. And as we kind of go up through our broken physical education system, we haven't done a really good job. I think in our country of kind of diversifying and scaling appropriate levels to make sure people are developing and multiple ways we kind of just like, Oh, you're good at this sport. Keep at it. You suck. You're out on. And I think if we were to kind of cater developmental, developmentally appropriate skill acquisition techniques and I'm stealing all this from a classmate of mine, Peter Bergen City proud, I think a better job of scaling, you know, developmental levels. I think you would see Maur athletes come out of that. That would be successful instead of just they only go on the tall guy put him under the basket. Um, you know, you would be able to develop more skills, but back to the internal load piece on understanding that, like I work with Ben Soccer Max, we're talking about this maybe your ago. I have a guy who logged twenty thousand meters in a playoff game last year, You know, that's over twelve and a half >> miles on run game. And he >> had played a game two days earlier and had been practicing for four months. And it comes to the question of like, How does somebody do that? Do that? Do you train them to do that? Do they just follow the program and all of us and they could do that. Or did there, I guess, internal demands to the sport over time. It took years. It took decades and in my opinion, took that after we to play the sport of high level, you know, for ten plus years to be able to get that cardiac adaptation of peripheral ability to be so efficient that they can run and change and cutting jump a tte that intensity. And so an athlete like that that that internal load, you know, they're going to be very, very effective and mobilizing energy. They're going to be very good of providing blood and oxygen to the to the outside of the body, whereas, you know, you take, not tow it, almost four. But like softball, that's a completely different athlete. And so if you were to ask them to have, ah, Despaigne similar demands, we know that internal load would be different. They're gonna have an inefficiency that, uh, you know what, I've election, Amy. A struggle to match the requirements of work or mechanical load that you're placing upon the athletes. So I think you know, it's really important as you start to look at that internal versus external. The external is critical, I think, on a lot of sports were just now identifying what is necessary to be successful on the field as and what they're doing. So you can start it that, you know, backwards, design and work. Your program to say here is ultimately what they have to be able to do. This is a worst case scenario on the field. This is how we should cater our return to play protocols so that we know we're working towards ultimately the ideal player. And that's sports and >> interesting. Yeah, not to cut you off. I did make some clarity here in regards to internal versus external loads. We talked about external load. We're talking about the amount of work someone actually does. Yes. So the amount of weight being lifted, how fast someone's running, how many pages someone can read, Right? And we end the guards, student, one intern and what side? Go ahead. >> It's really what is happening. What are you doing? What? How much of something? >> Something you're applying to the body. And then the internal load is the physiological changes that take place. And so the most basic concept is Hey, we're going to give you a weight program. We're gonna lift X amount of weight for X amount of days with the external load, intending to change the internal environment to grow muscle. And then the more muscle you grow, the more internal load you can handle. So you're adaptive capacity, that big bucket of how much you can handle a life. You become very efficient at handling that consistent external load and you increase your ability, whether it be efficiently or the magnitude. Insides that bucket to handle. A larger, I guess, external load in regards to having a larger internal capacity. And so what you're talking about is when our buck it's very specific Say we're playing soccer and we changed, too, you know, let's say tennis or in your case, saw Hall. You mentioned the softball player would struggle with soccer, and the soccer player would struggle with tennis because those external loads are so different than the internal capabilities of that individual. Is that correct? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think I think the higher level you go you definitely see that specificity of coordinated skills really kind of become a guest. Very nish. And what you typically say and I actually kind of think it's funny because I've said it. So then guilty as charged is that you'll look at a soccer player, you know, somebody who can play at the highest level and is sprinting doing all these different, you know, athletic exercises and then we'll be like, Man, they're bad athlete. They can't skip or look at that spa product. It's terrible and you know, you kind of take a step back and you're like, was the gold toe squatters, the gold toe score goals and play soccer? Um, and then some, you know, may argue. It will, you know, had the longevity of peace or they're gonna be in a more front injury, all that on and at the same time. And I think about that subconscious confidence when you put some money in a gym and a, you know, a new environment where they may not have done these things. They're very aware they're consciously in confident. They're sitting there going, I >> suck at this >> and they overthink it, right, and then you ask him to, like, go out on the field and kick a ball around, and they're doing these things. They're changing direction, which is basically a squat with shen angles changed. Uh, yeah, you know these things fluently without even thinking about it. So it's like their ability is there. It's just not in the right contact. >> Interesting. Yes, they bring up the concept of selling, being consciously aware, right? So they might be in a nervous kind of state. They're not familiar with the weight room, and that actually bring some level anxiety, possibly that true. And that itself may make the weight room instead of ah, use dresser, which is something very positive. It might be a distress, sir, and so they see that waiting is negative. And so now they're nervous toe workout and they have to work out, which makes the internal load even larger. So make this environment that kind of gets magnified. In regards to that. What other factors influence your internal load? Something I mentioned was that stress and obviously their external stressors, especially at Stanford, work very intelligent students who are having to go through rigorous testing in school. And it's a very competitive environment, not just athletically, but, um, you know, the education side as well through those stressors and past internal load. And if it does, how does that influenced the amount? External load? As a coach, you might provide? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think it's always going to be multispectral. It's always going to be. It depends on who's who's the athlete. What's their background? And the supporter? The activity. You're asking to dio, um, the daily life of the twenty two hours that they're not with you. Are they hydrated? Are they eating properly? They fuelling for adequate activity. Are they getting enough sleep? Are they, you know, have a test for their psychosocial factors at play? Like their girlfriend or boyfriend just broke up with him. And I think all those things obviously have an impact Has been Aton and ton of focus placed on this type of, I guess, capturing that whole athlete. Whereas maybe, you know, years ago, you would look at tonnage and now people will look tonnage. And what that stress load is, what that academic load is Because, you know, research is coming out. Now that we know that these types of overloaded stressors and stresses the same stress of you know makes you resilient can break you down. So it's really the improper dozing and inability to cope with that load, and that's dressed, it creates the problems. But, um, you know, you look at athletes who are an exam week, there's research talking about that people hell less efficiently. They have immune issues. So you're seeing people get sick. You're seeing that inability to adapt and cope with the demands that are placed on him, being significantly altered by some other type of factor outside of a weight room or a field. Um, you know, I think the the fact that the collegiate environment is being more aware to that and teams they're trying to push practice in the morning. A little later, they're tryingto manipulate schedules so that its aren't just running straight from class. But they have a little time between do get some type of snack and to some moment to themselves toe. Take a couple of rest before they go out on the flip side, right after practice. Are they running directly into Ah, you know, a test or something? Or are they actually will have a little moments of themselves where they can kind of down, regulate, take everything in and then move on? I think that those types of things, well or not, massive are significant because they happened ten to twenty times every day over the span of weeks in years. And that's really the problems, that chronic buildup of a over activated, sympathetic response that maybe exacerbated by an athletes Taipei, their personalities or type a person. Yeah. Hey, I'm driven. I'm a pi performer. This is what I do, or maybe some of the lifestyle stuff. So maybe that there's somebody who you know is just pumping refined sugars and other body and creating a flux and blood sugar regulation that again mobilizes cortisol, a sympathetic response. And next thing you know, you've just in the span of three hours tagged on six different things, albeit slightly different, that had the same outcome on the system. So that internal response becomes very, very sensitive. Teo, everything you're doing because it's that chronic build up that's really taken its toll on it. >> Interesting. So he bring up the idea of the sympathetic nervous system and the sympathetic nervous system being broken down. I guess being partnered with, I should say with the parasympathetic nervous system, right, that makes up your autonomic nervous systems. So for those you're not familiar. Sympathetic nervous systems, your fighter flight. It mobilizes energy. It's looked at to be very important for survival. If we saw a lion during evolutionary times would help us increase our heart rate, Increased auction supply, mobilized energy so we could run away from a lion. But then we had the parasympathetic aspect. That branch would help regulate rest. And I just kind of the repair and rebuild process. Now, with that, you mentioned the hyperactivity of the sympathetic nervous system. Now, does this get out of whack? Sometimes if you're an athlete, your individual were chronically stressed. And if so, does that affect some of your endocrinology? So how your body responds? And what kind of tips can you have No muse with your athletes or yourself to get yourself back into a parasympathetic state? Yes, >> that's a great point. I think the and not tow to correct you. I think what you're saying is absolutely right. I think the key is, is not constantly counter act sympathetic, but is to bring the body back into a more balanced ability to appropriately turn on sympathetic into appropriately eternal in Paris. Sympathetic and what you typically see, and I said it so I think you're totally right, is sympathetic, does become the primary driver, but it isn't all about just turning on sympathetic. It's it's having the ability to use both when you need it. And I think a lot of times the door or the window to that is to drive parasympathetic activity on so that it can kind of restore itself. Ah, and then the goal. Once you're kind of an ability where you have a little bit more of stability and that is, then tow, have access to both. >> So you talk to me about me. Interrupt chase. But this is something to remind me completely where, if someone is chronically sympathetic, let's say they're in a game situation. This can goes back. That being stressed out, they might have hyperactivity, sympathetic nervous system and correct if I'm wrong, this decentralize is sorry. Desensitize is the frontal cortex and reduces some individuals ability to make decisions, especially when fatigue begins to set in. Because you have multiple areas of stress coming to body fatigue, the actual stress emotional of the situation and in the person's internal Billy to regulate that, that's something you talking to me about? Spoken with me about while Stanford. I found that topic to be extremely interesting and do the fact that it's completely universal. Whether you're an athlete or your individual going in for a job interview, they kind of fall under the same umbrella. Is this the case? >> Yes, excuse me. So I think ultimately it's a fine line, right? So I think the sympathetic nervous system actually has been shown to enhance some cognitive activities, right? So it does increase that acute ability, toe recall some information and at the same time and over driven response of it can almost shut everything down. And that's where you see people kind of like getting up hyperventilating and not being able to perform and really kind of altering some type of, um, thoughtful, logical, rational action. So I think it comes down to two primary things. It's a primary and secondary appraisal, and this is a psychology based concept. But I think it applies basically everything in performance and primary, the athlete, the person. Whoever is going to say what is happening, and this is subconscious and happening in different aspects of the Iranian or not I fell. Missed what? Your body goes, What's? What is this? Right? So I looked at the analogy of you walk into a bar. All right, You scan the bar, You have a very, very fast Ah, action arms. Excuse me? Decision about what is in that bar. Is that a threat? Do you see a bunch of hell's angels with guns and, you know, baseball bats sitting there? Or do you see a bunch of friends? Right, So and then it's that same split. Second, a secondary appraisal happens to the primary. That's secondary being. Do I have the resources to cope with this? And that is really what dictates what type of response and house is going to send. Oh, are the brain will send to the body to stimulate what side of the annulment? Nervous system. Right. So if I walk in, I say what? I don't like this. Tio. Hey, I've been in this scenario before. It didn't go well. That's when that sympathetic sent a kick on because I got to get out of here verses. I walk into that same place. It's a bunch of friends, You know, It's my old buddy from college. You're gonna have a completely different mobilization of your transmitters of hormones. Because of your perception of the stressor is completely different. And you mentioned you stress distress. And I think that that's the case for everything, because, uh, not to go on a rant. But if you if you take an athlete who loves running, that stress of running is completely different than an athlete who doesn't like running right. So their perception of an activity, albeit the same activity, will have a different psycho physiological manifestation of stress or load on the body. And so I think, as we talk about mental toughness with our athlete, even all of that ultimately comes down to have you put them in such situations to prepare them, have confidence in them. And that's what's going to dictate some of these positive body responses that you'll see because they'll walk up to that playing go. Yep. Done this a million times, and that is where you kind of have that mental resilience versus I don't know what's gonna happen. I've never done this before. If I miss, it's going to be the game. Aunt. I think when we talk about all of performance in psychology and physiology. It's so intertwined you cannot separate them, and we like to separate things we like to have absolute. We like to wear a monitor on a wrist or a chest that tells us we're tired or that tells us we've been too stressed. But the reality is, is that the individual differences in perception of stress and my ability, my body's ability to adapt to that stress based on what type of internal environment is kind of walking around twenty four hours a day is going to dictate everything. And that's why it's really tough and in a team environment for us to just blast everybody and say We're gonna stress, you know, we're going to internal load monitoring by H. R. V. Well, that's fantastic and I think there's there's marriage of that. So I'm not saying there isn't what. You better make sure you know a lot about your athletes. You better make sure you have the time to learn about their personalities, how they handle things, What type of family experiences, a fat, what type of things go into them making decisions about what they're experiencing. >> Gotcha. So that I couldn't agree more. Yeah, that's beautifully said one things you mentioned. There was the idea of HRT, but also the idea of perception. So H R v being a reflection on Amit nervous system and compared to your own baseline when your H R V numbers lower means you have less variability that, essentially inferring a higher level of sympathetic drive when you're HIV is higher, infers a more balanced eight or more parasympathetic state, essentially less sympathetic, right? Right. And so we start using H R V, and we talk about that as an internal tool. They also mentioned the idea ofthe having individuals be in situations that are similar to that of sport. Do you think there's a time and place for real time H R V feedback and HIV training? And would you possibly put someone in a situation where they're trying to score that goal? Maybe you fatigued them with, say, a sled push or prowler push and then you have there HIV tank. And they have to perform a difficult technical task in attempt to have them auto regulate that H R V. So they can perform that task successfully, making training and skill development much more specific and begin to messed together. >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's biofeedback. Wanna one, right? That's that's ah, thought technology, heart, math. All those companies out there using that with Forman psychologists to see how people a handle the stressors implied on them. But how did they bounce back? So the military has been doing this for years and live monitoring H R V on some of the operators and then watching them perform. You know, they're training, going through selection and training bases where they have Tio ah, handle extremely dynamic and challenging environments where they're under watch, their being scrutinised every step of the way. And so what we've actually seen is that people who on average, you know it's not. There's anomalies of force. People who take the hit right, so you'll see a drop in H R B or increasing sympathetic tone. They will actually bounce back, though, so having a stressor impact your your your body is is normal. But the ability to rebound and kind of come back to those norms within a relatively quick period of time is what is critical for high performance. You know, they talked about having a five minute or a three hundred feet average prior to that activity to get a baseline. What we found in some of the research coming out now you can actually probably cut it down to one two, three minutes. Right? So it becomes much more, I guess. Logistically feasible. Tohave guys sit around for one to three minutes, kind of collect that boarding for baseline and then go about their day. And that's really critical to get that that daily baseline. Because as we talked about, if you're on day six of AH long week, your body is functioning and flowing. Ah, and kind of repair mode. It's trying to keep up with what you've been putting it through. So each day that you wake up, you are gonna be slightly different than what you do where for. So it's not an apples, apples. You gotta look at your ability to flux in that Alice static load and your body's proactive decision making to try and match what it was doing in the prior day's training. Evolution >> Dacha. So H r v itself. I refer to the check engine light because it doesn't necessarily come from one area and come from emotional you, Khun, Stub your toe. You can have a lower H R V. And some of the things I've been reading about lately and talking to you about office, podcast or text message and kindly enough, you respond to my random texts at nine thirty at night with a slew of articles and ten questions, has been a nutritional side right and the idea of low level systemic inflammation or inadequate nutrition. What I mean by that is, I will put in food into her body under the assumption that this is going to give us a positive effect. Really. Sometimes the food that we put into our body are causing a stressor on our system, because either, eh, they're so foreign to us in regards to weigh their process or be too simple sugars. And them and I mean simple in terms of your eating a fruit loop have an effect on our body that can take us down a road that necessarily isn't positive for adaptation. And just like H. R. V. Is affected by your psychological perception, I've been read a little bit about H. R V is a kind of systemic monitor and how it could be influenced by nutrition in regards that nutritional aspect. I know we've talked a little bit about biomarkers and some of the diving deep into internal medicine and understanding that our body is very complex. It's made of of all these subsystems and how one subsystem acts might affect how another subsystem acts. And as we gain these risk factors of an adequate nutrients status, our overall risk profile increases and the idea that we might have an emergent pattern in terms of illness manifests increases. So I want to hear some of your thoughts on some of the internal medicine where that's going in regards to bio markers for athletics, human performance and just general wellness. I know you're not a physician and you're not ordering bloodwork and diagnosing off blood work. But being a sports scientist, I do think it's important to appreciate and understand some of these concepts, and you have a great indepth knowledge in this area. So I love to hear a little more about it. >> Yeah, no, I think that's an area and by no means a mine expert, right? I just read a lot of things and copy what other people say so I have to always say that. No, that's what we always hang her hat on is that if you go through the research, you're basically taking somebody else's thoughts interpreting to your own. So my experiences with this, our personal and what I've seen in a professional setting and all kind of touched on the personal piece because I think you know, as we talked about being an athlete and understanding what people go through, our own experiences can drive a lot of how we make decisions with their athletes or are clients or whoever working with and that basically, for twenty five years of my life I've been on some form of allergy medicine allergies, shot decongestant Z Pac to get rid of a sinus infection, you name it. I had, I had and I had multiple sci affections every year and not one time. I want your nose and throat, Doctor Otto. You know, allergy specialists now, one time to never anyone ever bring up what you're putting in your body. And you know, it took you know, I went toe doctor Dima Val seminar last summer and it took ah, somebody while he's very good, but it took somebody to kind of like, say, Hey, man, like it's not just isolating the symptom and given you an anti histamine or something like that, you got to think that you're in a systemic state of inadequacy. Your body doesn't have the ability to recognize normal nutrients as you eat things. But then also, it doesn't have the ability to recognize, um, some of the I guess the things that are supposed to be normal now become pathological. And it's just complete dysfunctional cycle. And so for me, I literally just He said, Hey, do me a favor. Stop eating dairy. Okay? Yeah, I love cheese, but we'll do that. And I literally and within three to four days, every single allergies symptom. I had one away. I haven't had any issues for seven and a half months. While legal thing, >> I >> haven't had any issues. Haven't got sick once. And it was just one thing come to find out. I have a lactose allergy. And not only does it didn't affect me like g I distress, but it effects chronic states of allergies. So my body was perceiving things as, ah, the enemy and the immune system was essentially creating that inflammatory response to deal with them s So I think that first and foremost, I started just looking at Maybe people are eating things that they may have a low grade flamer. Inflammatory response. Tio, Um, I was taking and sets staking insides like there were Andy since I was sixteen years old. You know, being an athlete, you get off him a practice, your knees hurt, ankle hurts. Whatever happens, you know, you just take him so that you can, um >> you know, keep >> on going toe to practice. The next day, um, I was taking CPAC's >> is >> taking prednisone. All these things basically put my spotty in a state of in a state of shock to a point where it can actually regulate normal. >> So just take that >> into my work and special environment. And we have athletes who were under that significant academic stress, social stress and the physical stress. Well, we also see is they're just like me. And then they were taken and said they were taken. You know, prednisone. They're taking quarter to steroids for asthma, exercise induced asthma. They were taking all these things that basically is driving the body into a state of alarm where it doesn't have a normalcy to it. So we're not seeing the immune system actually do its job. We're seeing chronic sympathetic response basically to everything that's being put into the body. So with that low grade inflammation that's happening over weeks, months, years, you get that inability to handle external loads, then that's where than internal load becomes so critical. But what once is, maybe a resilient person now they're getting the sniffles every three weeks now they're walking around with some type of tell, ephemeral and an itis. Ah, no. I think that we so easily look at Oh, they landed on it funny and practice. Oh, they took a bump or a bruise for somebody. But maybe that is exacerbated. Or maybe that's highly sensitive due to the fact that the body isn't able to function under normal circumstances. >> No, that's there's a lot of topics in that one dive into you. Um, I guess what is immediate topics that's most applicable for individuals, the idea of in said's and how? I mean, when I was in ah, middle school, I must have taken maybe six, four, five before a game when I was playing, and it felt nothing. Elements. I can only imagine what that's doing to my internal, You know, my, my style making my gastric system and how much to chewed up. Yeah, that's a lot of information that's come out regarding tendon healing and the adaptations of it, um, you've taught me well, I think the first one to bring this to my attention on some of the detriments of and said itself and some of the alternative we could possibly have, such as your human and things that don't necessarily tear our system up. Um, you give any thoughts on that and how that might play a role than Okay. We have this functional medicine world. Now, how do we apply that into, you know, physical therapy. And if we're trying to have ten and adaptations in regards to Isometrics, you might be doing them to increase longevity and reduced to an apathy or for film someone up with insides. Are we really getting the bang for the buck we want to get or we just causing more harm than good? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think you know, you said it right there and that. Are you taking that risk reward on using that, like, a short term? Ah, you know that hill, Teo, is it overriding what you truly want in the long term? Okay, so we talked about adaptation you mentioned Well, we've seen that and sides actually have. Ah, a destruction of satellite cells. So when you're normally building muscle and you're having some of these repair sells, Memento help stimulate regeneration and says, Well, actually blunt that response to Seo X one and two being the primary enzymes associated with that, we'll actually get shut down. Ah, And when they dio, you're literally stopping your body from adapting. Growing. So I talked to my soccer team all the time about I'm like, does it. You guys, You want you're wearing the sleepless shirts. You want to fill those things out? Let's not wait from what already isn't there, you know? And I think you know when we start looking at As you mentioned it, healing in the early stage returned to play. And now I'm never going to say, Hey, you know, you shouldn't do that. That's always up to the doctors and the medical professionals. But I think that there is lack of thought for our long term. Ah, mala dictations. So you mentioned, do we alter college and proliferation for the expense of just taking down some swelling and irritation? Maybe that paper's the response can be better handled by Tylenol or whatever else somebody thinks because I think it's critical. Especially, you know, you see the two different primary types intelligent Type one and Type three. They've seen that there is a blunted response and how that tendon regenerates. And so I think, you know, little things like that. Those conversations you have with your athletic trainer or your doctor and be like, Hey, is this absolutely necessary? I'm not questioning your rationale. But does this athlete need that? Or is there something else we can do? Is going to make sure that when I am doing the Afar or whatever before ISOs to maximize ah tended thickness or tendon restructuring or whatever I'm doing. Are we going to the baby? Out with the bath water? Are we gonna hurt something, You know, for the expense of you know what's easy and what we know from a Western medical model. >> Yeah, that's it. Very interesting moment. Thanks. By the way, I wanna clarify For those not familiar with terminology and says or non sorry, chase, I letyou go ahead there up the real quick and sense of things like ibuprofen and Advil around non steroidal anti inflammatory. Um, what's the d stand for? I'm forgetting right now. Feels stupid. Now draw. Go. Okay. There you go. Yeah, perfect things like ibuprofen and no Advil. I should take like six angel's before I play basketball. Because when it came out, I knew no better. It made me feel better and take more than barrier against coming out that we're really tearing up our system. What's interesting is we look at some of the inflammation studies. You look at older adults. It brings up the idea that as we age, we get in such an inflammatory state. We're taking things like insects, which are known to possibly reduce adaptation shins. And individuals were healthy. It actually increases muscle growth and some of the older adults because their level of inflammation, it's so high systemically that taking something as like an insider Advil, which we think is bad, actually increases adaptation. And they just show I just read a paper. Probably thirty men, too. For this that showed Curcumin has a potential effects to do the same, which might be a healthier alternative to end, says regards to reducing inflammation.