(upbeat music) >> Hi everyone. Welcome back to this Cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California. I'm John Furrier, host of "theCUBE." Got a great conversation around Cloud Native, Cloud Native Journey, how enterprises are looking at Cloud Native and putting it all together. And it comes down to operations, developer productivity, and security. It's the hottest topic in technology. We got Chris Jones here in the studio, director of Product Management for Platform9. Chris, thanks for coming in. >> Hey, thanks. >> So when we always chat about, when we're at KubeCon. KubeConEU is coming up and in a few, in a few months, the number one conversation is developer productivity. And the developers are driving all the standards. It's interesting to see how they just throw everything out there and whatever gets adopted ends up becoming the standard, not the old school way of kind of getting stuff done. So that's cool. Security Kubernetes and Containers are all kind of now that next level. So you're starting to see the early adopters moving to the mainstream. Enterprises, a variety of different approaches. You guys are at the center of this. We've had a couple conversations with your CEO and your tech team over there. What are you seeing? You're building the products. What's the core product focus right now for Platform9? What are you guys aiming for? >> The core is that blend of enabling your infrastructure and PlatformOps or DevOps teams to be able to go fast and run in a stable environment, but at the same time enable developers. We don't want people going back to what I've been calling Shadow IT 2.0. It's, hey, I've been told to do something. I kicked off this Container initiative. I need to run my software somewhere. I'm just going to go figure it out. We want to keep those people productive. At the same time we want to enable velocity for our operations teams, be it PlatformOps or DevOps. >> Take us through in your mind and how you see the industry rolling out this Cloud Native journey. Where do you see customers out there? Because DevOps have been around, DevSecOps is rocking, you're seeing AI, hot trend now. Developers are still in charge. Is there a change to the infrastructure of how developers get their coding done and the infrastructure, setting up the DevOps is key, but when you add the Cloud Native journey for an enterprise, what changes? What is the, what is the, I guess what is the Cloud Native journey for an enterprise these days? >> The Cloud Native journey or the change? When- >> Let's start with the, let's start with what they want to do. What's the goal and then how does that happen? >> I think the goal is that promise land. Increased resiliency, better scalability, and overall reduced costs. I've gone from physical to virtual that gave me a higher level of density, packing of resources. I'm moving to Containers. I'm removing that OS layer again. I'm getting a better density again, but all of a sudden I'm running Kubernetes. What does that, what does that fundamentally do to my operations? Does it magically give me scalability and resiliency? Or do I need to change what I'm running and how it's running so it fits that infrastructure? And that's the reality, is you can't just take a Container and drop it into Kubernetes and say, hey, I'm now Cloud Native. I've got reduced cost, or I've got better resiliency. There's things that your engineering teams need to do to make sure that application is a Cloud Native. And then there's what I think is one of the largest shifts of virtual machines to containers. When I was in the world of application performance monitoring, we would see customers saying, well, my engineering team have this Java app, and they said it needs a VM with 12 gig of RAM and eight cores, and that's what we gave it. But it's running slow. I'm working with the application team and you can see it's running slow. And they're like, well, it's got all of its resources. One of those nice features of virtualization is over provisioning. So the infrastructure team would say, well, we gave it, we gave it all a RAM it needed. And what's wrong with that being over provisioned? It's like, well, Java expects that RAM to be there. Now all of a sudden, when you move to the world of containers, what we've got is that's not a set resource limit, really is like it used to be in a VM, right? When you set it for a container, your application teams really need to be paying attention to your resource limits and constraints within the world of Kubernetes. So instead of just being able to say, hey, I'm throwing over the fence and now it's just going to run on a VM, and that VMs got everything it needs. It's now really running on more, much more of a shared infrastructure where limits and constraints are going to impact the neighbors. They are going to impact who's making that decision around resourcing. Because that Kubernetes concept of over provisioning and the virtualization concept of over provisioning are not the same. So when I look at this problem, it's like, well, what changed? Well, I'll do my scale tests as an application developer and tester, and I'd see what resources it needs. I asked for that in the VM, that sets the high watermark, job's done. Well, Kubernetes, it's no longer a VM, it's a Kubernetes manifest. And well, who owns that? Who's writing it? Who's setting those limits? To me, that should be the application team. But then when it goes into operations world, they're like, well, that's now us. Can we change those? So it's that amalgamation of the two that is saying, I'm a developer. I used to pay attention, but now I need to pay attention. And an infrastructure person saying, I used to just give 'em what they wanted, but now I really need to know what they've wanted, because it's going to potentially have a catastrophic impact on what I'm running. >> So what's the impact for the developer? Because, infrastructure's code is what everybody wants. The developer just wants to get the code going and they got to pay attention to all these things, or don't they? Is that where you guys come in? How do you guys see the problem? Actually scope the problem that you guys solve? 'Cause I think you're getting at I think the core issue here, which is, I've got Kubernetes, I've got containers, I've got developer productivity that I want to focus on. What's the problem that you guys solve? >> Platform operation teams that are adopting Cloud Native in their environment, they've got that steep learning curve of Kubernetes plus this fundamental change of how an app runs. What we're doing is taking away the burden of needing to operate and run Kubernetes and giving them the choice of the flexibility of infrastructure and location. Be that an air gap environment like a, let's say a telco provider that needs to run a containerized network function and containerized workloads for 5G. That's one thing that we can deploy and achieve in a completely inaccessible environment all the way through to Platform9 running traditionally as SaaS, as we were born, that's remotely managing and controlling your Kubernetes environments on-premise AWS. That hybrid cloud experience that could be also Bare Metal, but it's our platform running your environments with our support there, 24 by seven, that's proactively reaching out. So it's removing a lot of that burden and the complications that come along with operating the environment and standing it up, which means all of a sudden your DevOps and platform operations teams can go and work with your engineers and application developers and say, hey, let's get, let's focus on the stuff that, that we need to be focused on, which is running our business and providing a service to our customers. Not figuring out how to upgrade a Kubernetes cluster, add new nodes, and configure all of the low level. >> I mean there are, that's operations that just needs to work. And sounds like as they get into the Cloud Native kind of ops, there's a lot of stuff that kind of goes wrong. Or you go, oops, what do we buy into? Because the CIOs, let's go, let's go Cloud Native. We want to, we got to get set up for the future. We're going to be Cloud Native, not just lift and shift and we're going to actually build it out right. Okay, that sounds good. And when we have to actually get done. >> Chris: Yeah. >> You got to spin things up and stand up the infrastructure. What specifically use case do you guys see that emerges for Platform9 when people call you up and you go talk to customers and prospects? What's the one thing or use case or cases that you guys see that you guys solve the best? >> So I think one of the, one of the, I guess new use cases that are coming up now, everyone's talking about economic pressures. I think the, the tap blows open, just get it done. CIO is saying let's modernize, let's use the cloud. Now all of a sudden they're recognizing, well wait, we're spending a lot of money now. We've opened that tap all the way, what do we do? So now they're looking at ways to control that spend. So we're seeing that as a big emerging trend. What we're also sort of seeing is people looking at their data centers and saying, well, I've got this huge legacy environment that's running a hypervisor. It's running VMs. Can we still actually do what we need to do? Can we modernize? Can we start this Cloud Native journey without leaving our data centers, our co-locations? Or if I do want to reduce costs, is that that thing that says maybe I'm repatriating or doing a reverse migration? Do I have to go back to my data center or are there other alternatives? And we're seeing that trend a lot. And our roadmap and what we have in the product today was specifically built to handle those, those occurrences. So we brought in KubeVirt in terms of virtualization. We have a long legacy doing OpenStack and private clouds. And we've worked with a lot of those users and customers that we have and asked the questions, what's important? And today, when we look at the world of Cloud Native, you can run virtualization within Kubernetes. So you can, instead of running two separate platforms, you can have one. So all of a sudden, if you're looking to modernize, you can start on that new infrastructure stack that can run anywhere, Kubernetes, and you can start bringing VMs over there as you are containerizing at the same time. So now you can keep your application operations in one environment. And this also helps if you're trying to reduce costs. If you really are saying, we put that Dev environment in AWS, we've got a huge amount of velocity out of it now, can we do that elsewhere? Is there a co-location we can go to? Is there a provider that we can go to where we can run that infrastructure or run the Kubernetes, but not have to run the infrastructure? >> It's going to be interesting too, when you see the Edge come online, you start, we've got Mobile World Congress coming up, KubeCon events we're going to be at, the conversation is not just about public cloud. And you guys obviously solve a lot of do-it-yourself implementation hassles that emerge when people try to kind of stand up their own environment. And we hear from developers consistency between code, managing new updates, making sure everything is all solid so they can go fast. That's the goal. And that, and then people can get standardized on that. But as you get public cloud and do it yourself, kind of brings up like, okay, there's some gaps there as the architecture changes to be more distributed computing, Edge, on-premises cloud, it's cloud operations. So that's cool for DevOps and Cloud Native. How do you guys differentiate from say, some the public cloud opportunities and the folks who are doing it themselves? How do you guys fit in that world and what's the pitch or what's the story? >> The fit that we look at is that third alternative. Let's get your team focused on what's high value to your business and let us deliver that public cloud experience on your infrastructure or in the public cloud, which gives you that ability to still be flexible if you want to make choices to run consistently for your developers in two different locations. So as I touched on earlier, instead of saying go figure out Kubernetes, how do you upgrade a hundred worker nodes in place upgrade. We've solved that problem. That's what we do every single day of the week. Don't go and try to figure out how to upgrade a cluster and then upgrade all of the, what I call Kubernetes friends, your core DNSs, your metrics server, your Kubernetes dashboard. These are all things that we package, we test, we version. So when you click upgrade, we've already handled that entire process. So it's saying don't have your team focused on that lower level piece of work. Get them focused on what is important, which is your business services. >> Yeah, the infrastructure and getting that stood up. I mean, I think the thing that's interesting, if you look at the market right now, you mentioned cost savings and recovery, obviously kind of a recession. I mean, people are tightening their belts for sure. I don't think the digital transformation and Cloud Native spend is going to plummet. It's going to probably be on hold and be squeezed a little bit. But to your point, people are refactoring looking at how to get the best out of what they got. It's not just open the tap of spend the cash like it used to be. Yeah, a couple months, even a couple years ago. So okay, I get that. But then you look at the what's coming, AI. You're seeing all the new data infrastructure that's coming. The containers, Kubernetes stuff, got to get stood up pretty quickly and it's got to be reliable. So to your point, the teams need to get done with this and move on to the next thing. >> Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> 'Cause there's more coming. I mean, there's a lot coming for the apps that are building in Data Native, AI-Native, Cloud Native. So it seems that this Kubernetes thing needs to get solved. Is that kind of what you guys are focused on right now? >> So, I mean to use a customer, we have a customer that's in AI/ML and they run their platform at customer sites and that's hardware bound. You can't run AI machine learning on anything anywhere. Well, with Platform9 they can. So we're enabling them to deliver services into their customers that's running their AI/ML platform in their customer's data centers anywhere in the world on hardware that is purpose-built for running that workload. They're not Kubernetes experts. That's what we are. We're bringing them that ability to focus on what's important and just delivering their business services whilst they're enabling our team. And our 24 by seven proactive management are always on assurance to keep that up and running for them. So when something goes bump at the night at 2:00am, our guys get woken up. They're the ones that are reaching out to the customer saying, your environments have a problem, we're taking these actions to fix it. Obviously sometimes, especially if it is running on Bare Metal, there's things you can't do remotely. So you might need someone to go and do that. But even when that happens, you're not by yourself. You're not sitting there like I did when I worked for a bank in one of my first jobs, three o'clock in the morning saying, wow, our end of day processing is stuck. Who else am I waking up? Right? >> Exactly, yeah. Got to get that cash going. But this is a great use case. I want to get to the customer. What do some of the successful customers say to you for the folks watching that aren't yet a customer of Platform9, what are some of the accolades and comments or anecdotes that you guys hear from customers that you have? >> It just works, which I think is probably one of the best ones you can get. Customers coming back and being able to show to their business that they've delivered growth, like business growth and productivity growth and keeping their organization size the same. So we started on our containerization journey. We went to Kubernetes. We've deployed all these new workloads and our operations team is still six people. We're doing way more with growth less, and I think that's also talking to the strength that we're bringing, 'cause we're, we're augmenting that team. They're spending less time on the really low level stuff and automating a lot of the growth activity that's involved. So when it comes to being able to grow their business, they can just focus on that, not- >> Well you guys do the heavy lifting, keep on top of the Kubernetes, make sure that all the versions are all done. Everything's stable and consistent so they can go on and do the build out and provide their services. That seems to be what you guys are best at. >> Correct, correct. >> And so what's on the roadmap? You have the product, direct product management, you get the keys to the kingdom. What is, what is the focus? What's your focus right now? Obviously Kubernetes is growing up, Containers. We've been hearing a lot at the last KubeCon about the security containers is getting better. You've seen verification, a lot more standards around some things. What are you focused on right now for at a product over there? >> Edge is a really big focus for us. And I think in Edge you can look at it in two ways. The mantra that I drive is Edge must be remote. If you can't do something remotely at the Edge, you are using a human being, that's not Edge. Our Edge management capabilities and being in the market for over two years are a hundred percent remote. You want to stand up a store, you just ship the server in there, it gets racked, the rest of it's remote. Imagine a store manager in, I don't know, KFC, just plugging in the server, putting in the ethernet cable, pressing the power button. The rest of all that provisioning for that Cloud Native stack, Kubernetes, KubeVirt for virtualization is done remotely. So we're continuing to focus on that. The next piece that is related to that is allowing people to run Platform9 SaaS in their data centers. So we do ag app today and we've had a really strong focus on telecommunications and the containerized network functions that come along with that. So this next piece is saying, we're bringing what we run as SaaS into your data center, so then you can run it. 'Cause there are many people out there that are saying, we want these capabilities and we want everything that the Platform9 control plane brings and simplifies. But unfortunately, regulatory compliance reasons means that we can't leverage SaaS. So they might be using a cloud, but they're saying that's still our infrastructure. We're still closed that network down, or they're still on-prem. So they're two big priorities for us this year. And that on-premise experiences is paramount, even to the point that we will be delivering a way that when you run an on-premise, you can still say, wait a second, well I can send outbound alerts to Platform9. So their support team can still be proactively helping me as much as they could, even though I'm running Platform9s control plane. So it's sort of giving that blend of two experiences. They're big, they're big priorities. And the third pillar is all around virtualization. It's saying if you have economic pressures, then I think it's important to look at what you're spending today and realistically say, can that be reduced? And I think hypervisors and virtualization is something that should be looked at, because if you can actually reduce that spend, you can bring in some modernization at the same time. Let's take some of those nos that exist that are two years into their five year hardware life cycle. Let's turn that into a Cloud Native environment, which is enabling your modernization in place. It's giving your engineers and application developers the new toys, the new experiences, and then you can start running some of those virtualized workloads with KubeVirt, there. So you're reducing cost and you're modernizing at the same time with your existing infrastructure. >> You know Chris, the topic of this content series that we're doing with you guys is finding the right path, trusting the right path to Cloud Native. What does that mean? I mean, if you had to kind of summarize that phrase, trusting the right path to Cloud Native, what does that mean? It mean in terms of architecture, is it deployment? Is it operations? What's the underlying main theme of that quote? What's the, what's? How would you talk to a customer and say, what does that mean if someone said, "Hey, what does that right path mean?" >> I think the right path means focusing on what you should be focusing on. I know I've said it a hundred times, but if your entire operations team is trying to figure out the nuts and bolts of Kubernetes and getting three months into a journey and discovering, ah, I need Metrics Server to make something function. I want to use Horizontal Pod Autoscaler or Vertical Pod Autoscaler and I need this other thing, now I need to manage that. That's not the right path. That's literally learning what other people have been learning for the last five, seven years that have been focused on Kubernetes solely. So the why- >> There's been a lot of grind. People have been grinding it out. I mean, that's what you're talking about here. They've been standing up the, when Kubernetes started, it was all the promise. >> Chris: Yep. >> And essentially manually kind of getting in in the weeds and configuring it. Now it's matured up. They want stability. >> Chris: Yeah. >> Not everyone can get down and dirty with Kubernetes. It's not something that people want to generally do unless you're totally into it, right? Like I mean, I mean ops teams, I mean, yeah. You know what I mean? It's not like it's heavy lifting. Yeah, it's important. Just got to get it going. >> Yeah, I mean if you're deploying with Platform9, your Ops teams can tinker to their hearts content. We're completely compliant upstream Kubernetes. You can go and change an API server flag, let's go and mess with the scheduler, because we want to. You can still do that, but don't, don't have your team investing in all this time to figure it out. It's been figured out. >> John: Got it. >> Get them focused on enabling velocity for your business. >> So it's not build, but run. >> Chris: Correct? >> Or run Kubernetes, not necessarily figure out how to kind of get it all, consume it out. >> You know we've talked to a lot of customers out there that are saying, "I want to be able to deliver a service to my users." Our response is, "Cool, let us run it. You consume it, therefore deliver it." And we're solving that in one hit versus figuring out how to first run it, then operate it, then turn that into a consumable service. >> So the alternative Platform9 is what? They got to do it themselves or use the Cloud or what's the, what's the alternative for the customer for not using Platform9? Hiring more people to kind of work on it? What's the? >> People, building that kind of PaaS experience? Something that I've been very passionate about for the past year is looking at that world of sort of GitOps and what that means. And if you go out there and you sort of start asking the question what's happening? Just generally with Kubernetes as well and GitOps in that scope, then you'll hear some people saying, well, I'm making it PaaS, because Kubernetes is too complicated for my developers and we need to give them something. There's some great material out there from the likes of Intuit and Adobe where for two big contributors to Argo and the Argo projects, they almost have, well they do have, different experiences. One is saying, we went down the PaaS route and it failed. The other one is saying, well we've built a really stable PaaS and it's working. What are they trying to do? They're trying to deliver an outcome to make it easy to use and consume Kubernetes. So you could go out there and say, hey, I'm going to build a Kubernetes cluster. Sounds like Argo CD is a great way to expose that to my developers so they can use Kubernetes without having to use Kubernetes and start automating things. That is an approach, but you're going to be going completely open source and you're going to have to bring in all the individual components, or you could just lay that, lay it down, and consume it as a service and not have to- >> And mentioned to it. They were the ones who kind of brought that into the open. >> They did. Inuit is the primary contributor to the Argo set of products. >> How has that been received in the market? I mean, they had the event at the Computer History Museum last fall. What's the momentum there? What's the big takeaway from that project? >> Growth. To me, growth. I mean go and track the stars on that one. It's just, it's growth. It's unlocking machine learning. Argo workflows can do more than just make things happen. Argo CD I think the approach they're taking is, hey let's make this simple to use, which I think can be lost. And I think credit where credit's due, they're really pushing to bring in a lot of capabilities to make it easier to work with applications and microservices on Kubernetes. It's not just that, hey, here's a GitOps tool. It can take something from a Git repo and deploy it and maybe prioritize it and help you scale your operations from that perspective. It's taking a step back and saying, well how did we get to production in the first place? And what can be done down there to help as well? I think it's growth expansion of features. They had a huge release just come out in, I think it was 2.6, that brought in things that as a product manager that I don't often look at like really deep technical things and say wow, that's powerful. But they have, they've got some great features in that release that really do solve real problems. >> And as the product, as the product person, who's the target buyer for you? Who's the customer? Who's making that? And you got decision maker, influencer, and recommender. Take us through the customer persona for you guys. >> So that Platform Ops, DevOps space, right, the people that need to be delivering Containers as a service out to their organization. But then it's also important to say, well who else are our primary users? And that's developers, engineers, right? They shouldn't have to say, oh well I have access to a Kubernetes cluster. Do I have to use kubectl or do I need to go find some other tool? No, they can just log to Platform9. It's integrated with your enterprise id. >> They're the end customer at the end of the day, they're the user. >> Yeah, yeah. They can log in. And they can see the clusters you've given them access to as a Platform Ops Administrator. >> So job well done for you guys. And your mind is the developers are moving 'em fast, coding and happy. >> Chris: Yeah, yeah. >> And and from a customer standpoint, you reduce the maintenance cost, because you keep the Ops smoother, so you got efficiency and maintenance costs kind of reduced or is that kind of the benefits? >> Yeah, yep, yeah. And at two o'clock in the morning when things go inevitably wrong, they're not there by themselves, and we're proactively working with them. >> And that's the uptime issue. >> That is the uptime issue. And Cloud doesn't solve that, right? Everyone experienced that Clouds can go down, entire regions can go offline. That's happened to all Cloud providers. And what do you do then? Kubernetes isn't your recovery plan. It's part of it, right, but it's that piece. >> You know Chris, to wrap up this interview, I will say that "theCUBE" is 12 years old now. We've been to OpenStack early days. We had you guys on when we were covering OpenStack and now Cloud has just been booming. You got AI around the corner, AI Ops, now you got all this new data infrastructure, it's just amazing Cloud growth, Cloud Native, Security Native, Cloud Native, Data Native, AI Native. It's going to be all, this is the new app environment, but there's also existing infrastructure. So going back to OpenStack, rolling our own cloud, building your own cloud, building infrastructure cloud, in a cloud way, is what the pioneers have done. I mean this is what we're at. Now we're at this scale next level, abstracted away and make it operational. It seems to be the key focus. We look at CNCF at KubeCon and what they're doing with the cloud SecurityCon, it's all about operations. >> Chris: Yep, right. >> Ops and you know, that's going to sound counterintuitive 'cause it's a developer open source environment, but you're starting to see that Ops focus in a good way. >> Chris: Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> Infrastructure as code way. >> Chris: Yep. >> What's your reaction to that? How would you summarize where we are in the industry relative to, am I getting, am I getting it right there? Is that the right view? What am I missing? What's the current state of the next level, NextGen infrastructure? >> It's a good question. When I think back to sort of late 2019, I sort of had this aha moment as I saw what really truly is delivering infrastructure as code happening at Platform9. There's an open source project Ironic, which is now also available within Kubernetes that is Metal Kubed that automates Bare Metal as code, which means you can go from an empty server, lay down your operating system, lay down Kubernetes, and you've just done everything delivered to your customer as code with a Cloud Native platform. That to me was sort of the biggest realization that I had as I was moving into this industry was, wait, it's there. This can be done. And the evolution of tooling and operations is getting to the point where that can be achieved and it's focused on by a number of different open source projects. Not just Ironic and and Metal Kubed, but that's a huge win. That is truly getting your infrastructure. >> John: That's an inflection point, really. >> Yeah. >> If you think about it, 'cause that's one of the problems. We had with the Bare Metal piece was the automation and also making it Cloud Ops, cloud operations. >> Right, yeah. I mean, one of the things that I think Ironic did really well was saying let's just treat that piece of Bare Metal like a Cloud VM or an instance. If you got a problem with it, just give the person using it or whatever's using it, a new one and reimage it. Just tell it to reimage itself and it'll just (snaps fingers) go. You can do self-service with it. In Platform9, if you log in to our SaaS Ironic, you can go and say, I want that physical server to myself, because I've got a giant workload, or let's turn it into a Kubernetes cluster. That whole thing is automated. To me that's infrastructure as code. I think one of the other important things that's happening at the same time is we're seeing GitOps, we're seeing things like Terraform. I think it's important for organizations to look at what they have and ask, am I using tools that are fit for tomorrow or am I using tools that are yesterday's tools to solve tomorrow's problems? And when especially it comes to modernizing infrastructure as code, I think that's a big piece to look at. >> Do you see Terraform as old or new? >> I see Terraform as old. It's a fantastic tool, capable of many great things and it can work with basically every single provider out there on the planet. It is able to do things. Is it best fit to run in a GitOps methodology? I don't think it is quite at that point. In fact, if you went and looked at Flux, Flux has ways that make Terraform GitOps compliant, which is absolutely fantastic. It's using two tools, the best of breeds, which is solving that tomorrow problem with tomorrow solutions. >> Is the new solutions old versus new. I like this old way, new way. I mean, Terraform is not that old and it's been around for about eight years or so, whatever. But HashiCorp is doing a great job with that. I mean, so okay with Terraform, what's the new address? Is it more complex environments? Because Terraform made sense when you had basic DevOps, but now it sounds like there's a whole another level of complexity. >> I got to say. >> New tools. >> That kind of amalgamation of that application into infrastructure. Now my app team is paying way more attention to that manifest file, which is what GitOps is trying to solve. Let's templatize things. Let's version control our manifest, be it helm, customize, or just a straight up Kubernetes manifest file, plain and boring. Let's get that version controlled. Let's make sure that we know what is there, why it was changed. Let's get some auditability and things like that. And then let's get that deployment all automated. So that's predicated on the cluster existing. Well why can't we do the same thing with the cluster, the inception problem. So even if you're in public cloud, the question is like, well what's calling that API to call that thing to happen? Where is that file living? How well can I manage that in a large team? Oh my God, something just changed. Who changed it? Where is that file? And I think that's one of big, the big pieces to be sold. >> Yeah, and you talk about Edge too and on-premises. I think one of the things I'm observing and certainly when DevOps was rocking and rolling and infrastructures code was like the real push, it was pretty much the public cloud, right? >> Chris: Yep. >> And you did Cloud Native and you had stuff on-premises. Yeah you did some lifting and shifting in the cloud, but the cool stuff was going in the public cloud and you ran DevOps. Okay, now you got on-premise cloud operation and Edge. Is that the new DevOps? I mean 'cause what you're kind of getting at with old new, old new Terraform example is an interesting point, because you're pointing out potentially that that was good DevOps back in the day or it still is. >> Chris: It is, I was going to say. >> But depending on how you define what DevOps is. So if you say, I got the new DevOps with public on-premise and Edge, that's just not all public cloud, that's essentially distributed Cloud Native. >> Correct. Is that the new DevOps in your mind or is that? How would you, or is that oversimplifying it? >> Or is that that term where everyone's saying Platform Ops, right? Has it shifted? >> Well you bring up a good point about Terraform. I mean Terraform is well proven. People love it. It's got great use cases and now there seems to be new things happening. We call things like super cloud emerging, which is multicloud and abstraction layers. So you're starting to see stuff being abstracted away for the benefits of moving to the next level, so teams don't get stuck doing the same old thing. They can move on. Like what you guys are doing with Platform9 is providing a service so that teams don't have to do it. >> Correct, yeah. >> That makes a lot of sense, So you just, now it's running and then they move on to the next thing. >> Chris: Yeah, right. >> So what is that next thing? >> I think Edge is a big part of that next thing. The propensity for someone to put up with a delay, I think it's gone. For some reason, we've all become fairly short-tempered, Short fused. You know, I click the button, it should happen now, type people. And for better or worse, hopefully it gets better and we all become a bit more patient. But how do I get more effective and efficient at delivering that to that really demanding- >> I think you bring up a great point. I mean, it's not just people are getting short-tempered. I think it's more of applications are being deployed faster, security is more exposed if they don't see things quicker. You got data now infrastructure scaling up massively. So, there's a double-edged swords to scale. >> Chris: Yeah, yeah. I mean, maintenance, downtime, uptime, security. So yeah, I think there's a tension around, and one hand enthusiasm around pushing a lot of code and new apps. But is the confidence truly there? It's interesting one little, (snaps finger) supply chain software, look at Container Security for instance. >> Yeah, yeah. It's big. I mean it was codified. >> Do you agree that people, that's kind of an issue right now. >> Yeah, and it was, I mean even the supply chain has been codified by the US federal government saying there's things we need to improve. We don't want to see software being a point of vulnerability, and software includes that whole process of getting it to a running point. >> It's funny you mentioned remote and one of the thing things that you're passionate about, certainly Edge has to be remote. You don't want to roll a truck or labor at the Edge. But I was doing a conversation with, at Rebars last year about space. It's hard to do brake fix on space. It's hard to do a, to roll a someone to configure satellite, right? Right? >> Chris: Yeah. >> So Kubernetes is in space. We're seeing a lot of Cloud Native stuff in apps, in space, so just an example. This highlights the fact that it's got to be automated. Is there a machine learning AI angle with all this ChatGPT talk going on? You see all the AI going the next level. Some pretty cool stuff and it's only, I know it's the beginning, but I've heard people using some of the new machine learning, large language models, large foundational models in areas I've never heard of. Machine learning and data centers, machine learning and configuration management, a lot of different ways. How do you see as the product person, you incorporating the AI piece into the products for Platform9? >> I think that's a lot about looking at the telemetry and the information that we get back and to use one of those like old idle terms, that continuous improvement loop to feed it back in. And I think that's really where machine learning to start with comes into effect. As we run across all these customers, our system that helps at two o'clock in the morning has that telemetry, it's got that data. We can see what's changing and what's happening. So it's writing the right algorithms, creating the right machine learning to- >> So training will work for you guys. You have enough data and the telemetry to do get that training data. >> Yeah, obviously there's a lot of investment required to get there, but that is something that ultimately that could be achieved with what we see in operating people's environments. >> Great. Chris, great to have you here in the studio. Going wide ranging conversation on Kubernetes and Platform9. I guess my final question would be how do you look at the next five years out there? Because you got to run the product management, you got to have that 20 mile steer, you got to look at the customers, you got to look at what's going on in the engineering and you got to kind of have that arc. This is the right path kind of view. What's the five year arc look like for you guys? How do you see this playing out? 'Cause KubeCon is coming up and we're you seeing Kubernetes kind of break away with security? They had, they didn't call it KubeCon Security, they call it CloudNativeSecurityCon, they just had in Seattle inaugural events seemed to go well. So security is kind of breaking out and you got Kubernetes. It's getting bigger. Certainly not going away, but what's your five year arc of of how Platform9 and Kubernetes and Ops evolve? >> It's to stay on that theme, it's focusing on what is most important to our users and getting them to a point where they can just consume it, so they're not having to operate it. So it's finding those big items and bringing that into our platform. It's something that's consumable, that's just taken care of, that's tested with each release. So it's simplifying operations more and more. We've always said freedom in cloud computing. Well we started on, we started on OpenStack and made that simple. Stable, easy, you just have it, it works. We're doing that with Kubernetes. We're expanding out that user, right, we're saying bring your developers in, they can download their Kube conflict. They can see those Containers that are running there. They can access the events, the log files. They can log in and build a VM using KubeVirt. They're self servicing. So it's alleviating pressures off of the Ops team, removing the help desk systems that people still seem to rely on. So it's like what comes into that field that is the next biggest issue? Is it things like CI/CD? Is it simplifying GitOps? Is it bringing in security capabilities to talk to that? Or is that a piece that is a best of breed? Is there a reason that it's been spun out to its own conference? Is this something that deserves a focus that should be a specialized capability instead of tooling and vendors that we work with, that we partner with, that could be brought in as a service. I think it's looking at those trends and making sure that what we bring in has the biggest impact to our users. >> That's awesome. Thanks for coming in. I'll give you the last word. Put a plug in for Platform9 for the people who are watching. What should they know about Platform9 that they might not know about it or what should? When should they call you guys and when should they engage? Take a take a minute to give the plug. >> The plug. I think it's, if your operations team is focused on building Kubernetes, stop. That shouldn't be the cloud. That shouldn't be in the Edge, that shouldn't be at the data center. They should be consuming it. If your engineering teams are all trying different ways and doing different things to use and consume Cloud Native services and Kubernetes, they shouldn't be. You want consistency. That's how you get economies of scale. Provide them with a simple platform that's integrated with all of your enterprise identity where they can just start consuming instead of having to solve these problems themselves. It's those, it's those two personas, right? Where the problems manifest. What are my operations teams doing, and are they delivering to my company or are they building infrastructure again? And are my engineers sprinting or crawling? 'Cause if they're not sprinting, you should be asked the question, do I have the right Cloud Native tooling in my environment and how can I get them back? >> I think it's developer productivity, uptime, security are the tell signs. You get that done. That's the goal of what you guys are doing, your mission. >> Chris: Yep. >> Great to have you on, Chris. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >> Chris: Thanks very much. 0 Okay, this is "theCUBE" here, finding the right path to Cloud Native. I'm John Furrier, host of "theCUBE." Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to You by Dell Technologies. >>Welcome to the Cubes Coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020. The digital coverage Find Lisa Martin And then we started to be talking with one of Dell Technologies customers. Earth Camp. Joining Me is built sharp, the senior VP of product development and strategy from Earth Camp Phil, Welcome to the Cube. >>Thank you so much. >>So talk to me a little bit. About what Earth Cam does this very interesting Web can technology? You guys have tens of thousands of cameras and sensors all over the globe give her audience and understanding of what you guys are all about. >>Sure thing. The world's leading provider of Webcam technologies and mentioned content services were leaders and live streaming time lapse imaging primary focus in the vertical construction. So a lot of these, the most ambitious, largest construction projects around the world, you see, these amazing time lapse movies were capturing all of that imagery. You know, basically, around the clock of these cameras are are sending all of that image content to us when we're generating these time lapse movies from it. >>You guys, you're headquartered in New Jersey and I was commenting before we went live about your great background. So you're actually getting to be on site today? >>Yes, Yes, that's where lives from our headquarters in Upper Saddle River, New Jersey. >>Excellent. So in terms of the types of information that you're capturing. So I was looking at the website and see from a construction perspective or some of the big projects you guys have done the Hudson Yards, the Panama Canal expansion, the 9 11 Museum. But you talked about one of the biggest focus is that you have is in the construction industry in terms of what type of data you're capturing from all of these thousands of edge devices give us a little bit of insight into how much data you're capturing high per day, how it gets from the edge, presumably back to your court data center for editing. >>Sure, and it's not just construction were also in travel, hospitality, tourism, security, architectural engineering, basically, any any industry that that need high resolution visualization of their their projects or their their performance or of their, you know, product flow. So it's it's high resolution documentation is basically our business. There are billions of files in the isil on system right now. We are ingesting millions of images a month. We are also creating very high resolution panoramic imagery where we're taking hundreds and sometimes multiple hundreds of images, very high resolution images and stitching these together to make panoramas that air up to 30 giga pixel, sometimes typically around 1 to 2 giga pixel. But that composite imagery Eyes represents millions of images per per month coming into the storage system and then being, uh, stitched together to those those composites >>the millions of images coming in every month. You mentioned Isil on talk to me a little bit about before you were working with Delhi, EMC and Power Scale. How are you managing this massive volume of data? >>Sure we had. We've used a number of other enterprise storage systems. It was really nothing was as easy to manage Azazel on really is there was there was a lot of a lot of problems with overhead, the amount of time necessary from a systems administrator resource standpoint, you to manage that, uh, and and it's interesting with the amount of data that we handle. This is being billions of relatively small files there there, you know, half a megabyte to a couple of megabytes each. It's an interesting data profile, which, which isil on really is well suited for. >>So if we think about some of the massive changes that we've all been through the last in 2020 what are some of the changes that that Earth Kemp has seen with respect to the needs for organizations? Or you mentioned other industries, like travel hospitality? Since none of us could get to these great travel destinations, Have you seen a big drive up in the demand and the need to process data more data faster? >>Yeah, that's an injury interesting point with with the Pandemic. Obviously we had to pivot and move a lot of people toe working from home, which we were able to do pretty quickly. But there's also an interesting opportunity that arose from this, where so many of our customers and other people also have to do the same. And there is an increased demand for our our technology so people can remotely collaborate. They can. They can work at a distance. They can stay at home and see what's going on in these projects sites. So we really so kind of an uptick in the in the need for our products and services. And we've also created Cem basically virtual travel applications. We have an application on the Amazon Fire TV, which is the number one app in the travel platform of people can kind of virtually travel when they can't really get out there. So it's, uh, we've been doing kind of giving back Thio to people that are having having some issues with being able to travel around. We've done the fireworks of the Washington Mall around the Statue of Liberty for the July 4th, and this year will be Webcasting and New Year's in Times Square for our 25th year, actually. So again, helping people travel virtually and be, uh, maintain can be collectivity with with each other and with their projects, >>which is so essential during these times, where for the last 67 months everyone is trying to get a sense of community, and most of us just have the Internet. So I also heard you guys were available on Apple TV, someone to fire that up later and maybe virtually travel. Um, but tell me a little bit about how working in conjunction with Delta Technologies and Power Cell How is that enabled you to manage this massive volume change you've experienced this year? Because, as you said, it's also about facilitating collaboration, which is largely online these days. >>Yeah, I mean, the the great things they're working with Dell has been just our confidence in this infrastructure. Like I said, the other systems we worked with in the past we've always found ourselves kind of second guessing. Obviously, resolutions are increasing. The camera performance is increasing. Streaming video is everything is is constantly getting bigger and better, faster. Maurits And we're always innovating. We found ourselves on previous storage platforms having to really kind of go back and look at the second guess we're at with it With with this, this did L infrastructure. That's been it's been fantastic. We don't really have to think about that as much. We just continue innovating everything scales as we needed to dio. It's it's much easier to work with, >>so you've got power scale at your core data center in New Jersey. Tell me a little bit about how data gets from thes tens of thousands of devices at the edge, back to your editors for editing and how power scale facilitates faster editing, for example. >>Basically, you imagine every one of these cameras on It's not just camera. We have mobile applications. We have fixed position of robotic cameras. There's all these different data acquisition systems were integrating with weather sensors and different types of telemetry. All of that data is coming back to us over the Internet, so these are all endpoints in our network. Eso that's that's constantly being ingested into our network and say WTO. I salon the big the big thing that's really been a timesaver Working with the video editors is, instead of having to take that content, move it into an editing environment where we have we have a whole team of award winning video editors. Creating these time lapse is we don't need to keep moving that around. We're working natively on Iselin clusters. They're doing their editing, their subsequent edits. Anytime we have to update or change these movies as a project evolves, that's all it happened right there on that live environment on the retention. Is there if we have to go back later on all of our customers, data is really kept within that 11 area. It's consolidated, its secure. >>I was looking at the Del Tech website. There's a case study that you guys did earth campaign with Deltek saying that the video processing time has been reduced 20%. So that's a pretty significant increase. I could imagine what the volumes changing so much now but on Li not only is huge for your business, but to the demands that your customers have as well, depending on where there's demands are coming from >>absolutely and and just being able to do that a lot faster and be more nimble allows us to scale. We've added actually against speaking on this pandemic, we've actually added person who we've been hiring people. A lot of those people are working remotely, as as we've stated before on it's just with the increase in business. We have to continue to keep building on that on this storage environments been been great. >>Tell me about what you guys really kind of think about with respect to power scale in terms of data management, not storage management and what that difference means to your business. >>Well, again, I mean number number one was was really eliminating the amount of resource is amount of time we have to spend managing it. We've almost eliminated any downtime of any of any kind. We have greater storage density, were able to have better visualization on how our data is being used, how it's being access so as thes as thes things, a revolving. We really have good visibility on how the how the storage system is being used in both our production and our and also in our backup environments. It's really, really easy for us Thio to make our business decisions as we innovate and change processes, having that continual visibility and really knowing where we stand. >>And you mentioned hiring folks during the pandemic, which is fantastic but also being able to do things much in a much more streamlined way with respect to managing all of this data. But I am curious in terms of of innovation and new product development. What have you been able to achieve because you've got more resource is presumably to focus on being more innovative rather than managing storage >>well again? It's were always really pushing the envelope of what the technology can do. As I mentioned before, we're getting things into, you know, 20 and 30 Giga pixel. You know, people are talking about megapixel images were stitching hundreds of these together. We've we're just really changing the way imagery is used, uh, both in the time lapse and also just in archival process. Ah, lot of these things we've done with the interior. You know, we have this virtual reality product where you can you can walk through and see in the 3 60 bubble. We're taking that imagery, and we're combining it with with these been models who are actually taking the three D models of the construction site and combining it with the imagery. And we can start doing things to visualize progress and different things that are happening on the site. Look for clashes or things that aren't built like they're supposed to be built, things that maybe aren't done on the proper schedule or things that are maybe ahead of schedule, doing a lot of things to save people, time and money on these construction sites. We've also introduced a I machine learning applications into directly into the workflow in this in the storage environment. So we're detecting equipment and people and activities in the site where a lot of that would have been difficult with our previous infrastructure, it really is seamless and working with YSL on now. >>Imagine, by being able to infuse AI and machine learning, you're able to get insight faster to be ableto either respond faster to those construction customers, for example, or alert them. If perhaps something isn't going according to plan. >>A lot of it's about schedule. It's about saving money about saving time and again, with not as many people traveling to the sites, they really just have have constant visualization of what's going on. Day to day, we're detecting things like different types of construction equipment and things that are happening on the side. We're partnering with people that are doing safety analytics and things of that nature. So these these are all things that are very important to construction sites. >>What are some of the things as we are rounding out the calendar year 2020? What are some of the things that you're excited about going forward in 2021? That Earth cam is going to be able to get into and to deliver >>it, just MAWR and more people really, finally seeing the value. I mean, I've been doing this for 20 years, and it's just it's it's It's amazing how we're constantly seeing new applications and more people understanding how valuable these visual tools are. That's just a fantastic thing for us because we're really trying to create better lives through visual information. We're really helping people with things they can do with this imagery. That's what we're all about that's really exciting to us in a very challenging environment right now is that people are are recognizing the need for this technology and really starting to put it on a lot more projects. >>Well, it's You can kind of consider an essential service, whether or not it's a construction company that needs to manage and oversee their projects, making sure they're on budget on schedule, as you said, Or maybe even just the essential nous of helping folks from any country in the world connect with a favorite favorite travel location or sending the right to help. From an emotional perspective, I think the essential nous of what you guys are delivering is probably even more impactful now, don't you think? >>Absolutely and again about connecting people and when they're at home. And recently we we webcast the president's speech from the Flight 93 9 11 observation from the memorial. There was something where the only the immediate families were allowed to travel there. We webcast that so people could see that around the world we have documented again some of the biggest construction projects out there. The new rate years greater stadium was one of the recent ones, uh, is delivering this kind of flagship content. Wall Street Journal is to use some of our content recently to really show the things that have happened during the pandemic in Times Square's. We have these cameras around the world. So again, it's really bringing awareness of letting people virtually travel and share and really remain connected during this this challenging time on and again, we're seeing a really increase demand in the traffic in those areas as well. >>I can imagine some of these things that you're doing that you're achieving now are going to become permanent, not necessarily artifacts of Cove in 19 as you now have the opportunity to reach so many more people and probably the opportunity to help industries that might not have seen the value off this type of video to be able to reach consumers that they probably could never reach before. >>Yeah, I think the whole nature of business and communication and travel on everything is really going to be changed from this point forward. It's really people are looking at things very, very differently and again, seeing the technology really can help with so many different areas that, uh, that it's just it's gonna be a different kind of landscape out there we feel on that's really, you know, continuing to be seen on the uptick in our business and how many people are adopting this technology. We're developing a lot more. Partnerships with other companies were expanding into new industries on again. You know, we're confident that the current platform is going to keep up with us and help us, you know, really scale and evolved as thes needs air growing. >>It sounds to me like you have the foundation with Dell Technologies with power scale to be able to facilitate the massive growth that you're saying and the skill in the future like you've got that foundation. You're ready to go? >>Yeah, we've been We've been We've been using the system for five years already. We've already added capacity. We can add capacity on the fly, Really haven't hit any limits. And what we can do, It's It's almost infinitely scalable, highly redundant. Gives everyone a real sense of security on our side. And, you know, we could just keep innovating, which is what we do without hitting any any technological limits with with our partnership. >>Excellent. Well, Bill, I'm gonna let you get back to innovating for Earth camp. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much for your time today. >>Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure >>for Bill Sharp and Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes. Digital coverage of Dell Technologies World 2020. Thanks for watching. Yeah,

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to London everybody, this is Dave Vellante with The Cube, the leader in tech coverage, and we're here at AWS. We wanted to cover deeper the public sector activity. We've been covering this segment for quite some time, with the public sector summit in DC, went to Bahrain last year, and we wanted to extend that to London. We're doing a special coverage here with a number of public sector folks. Anjenesh Babu is here, he's a network manager at Oxford GLAM. Thanks very much for coming on The Cube, it's good to see you. >> Thank you.], thanks. >> GLAM, I love it. Gardens, libraries and museums, you even get the A in there, which everybody always leaves out. So tell us about Oxford GLAM. >> So we are part of the heritage collection side of the University. And I'm here representing the gardens and museums. In the divisions we've got world renown collections, which has been held for 400 years or more. It comprises of four different museums and the Oxford University Botanic Gardens and Arboretum. So in total, we're looking at five different divisions, spread across probably sixteen different sites, physical sites. And the main focus of the division is to bring out collections to the world, through digital outreach, engagement and being fun, bringing fun into the whole system. Sustainment is big, because we are basically custodians of our collections and it has to be here almost forever, in a sense. And we can only display about 1% of our collections at any one point and we've got about 8.5 million objects. So as you can imagine, the majority of that is in storage. So one way to bring this out to the wider world is to digitize them, curate them and present them, either online or in another form. So that is what we do. >> In your role as the network manager is to makes sure everything connects and works and stays up? Or maybe describe that a little more. >> So, I'm a systems architect and network manager for gardens and museums, so in my role, my primary focus is to bridge the gap between technical and the non-technical functions, within the department. And I also look after network and infrastructure sites, so there's two parts to the role, one is a BAU business as usual function where we keep the networks all going and keep the lights on, basically. The second part is bringing together designs, it's not just solving technical problems, so if I'm looking at a technical problem I step out and almost zoom out to see, what else are we looking at which could be connected, and solve the problem. For example, we could be looking at a web design solution in one part of the project, but it's not relevant just to that project. If you step out and say, we could do this in another part of the program, and we may be operating in silence and we want to breakdown those, that's part of my role as well. >> Okay, so you're technical but you also speak the language of the organization and business. We put it in quotes because you're not a business per say. Okay, so you're digitizing all these artifacts and then making them available 24/7, is that the idea? What are some of the challenges there? >> So the first challenge is only 3% of objects are actually digitized. So we have 1% on display, 3% is actually digitized, it's a huge effort, it's not just scanning or taking photographs, you've got cataloging, accessions and a whole raft of databases that goes behind. And museums historically have got their own separate database collection which is individually held different collection systems, but as public, you don't care, we don't care, we just need to look at the object. You don't want to see, that belongs to the Ashmolean Museum or the picture does. You just want to see, and see what the characteristics are. For that we are bringing together a layer, which integrates different museums, it sort of reflects what we're doing in out SIT. The museums are culturally diverse institutions and we want to keep them that way, because each has got its history, a kind of personality to it. Under the hood, the foundational architecture, systems remain the same, so we can make them modular, expandable and address the same problems. So that's how we are supporting this and making it more sustainable at the same time. >> So you have huge volume, quality is an issue because people want to see beautiful images. You got all this meta data that you're collecting, you have a classification challenge. So how are you architecting this system and what role does the Cloud play in there? >> So, in the first instance we are looking at a lot of collections were on premises in the past. We are moving as a SaaS solution at the first step. A lot of it requires cleansing of data, almost, this is the state of the images we aren't migrating, we sort of stop here let's cleanse it, create new data streams and then bring it to the Cloud. That's one option we are looking at and that is the most important one. But during all this process in the last three years with the GLAM digital program there's been huge amount of changes. To have a static sort of golden image has been really crucial. And to do that if we are going down rate of on premise and trying to build out, scale out infrastructures, it would have a huge cost. The first thing that I looked at was, explore the Cloud options and I was interested in solutions like Snowball and the Storage Gateway. Straightforward, loads up the data and it's on the Cloud, and then I can fill out the infrastructure as much as I want, because we can all rest easy, the main, day one data is in the Cloud, and it's safe, and we can start working on the rest of it. So it's almost like a transition mechanism where we start working on the data before it goes to the Cloud anyway. And I'm also looking at a Cloud clearing house, because there's a lot of data exchanges that are going to come up in the future, vendor to vendor, vendor to us and us to the public. So it sort of presents itself a kind of junction, who is going to fill the junction? I think the obvious answer is here. >> So Snowball or Gateway, basically you either Snowball or Gateway the assets into the Cloud and you decide which one to use based on the size and the cost associated with doing that, is that right? >> Yes, and convenience. I was saying this the other day at another presentation, it's addictive because it's so simple and straight forward to use, and you just go back and say it's taken me three days to transfer 30 terabytes into a Snowball appliance and on the fourth day, it appears in in my packets, so what are we missing? Nothing. Let's do it again next week. So you got the Snowball for 10 days, bring it in transfer, so it's much more straightforward than transferring it over the network, and you got to keep and eye on things. Not that it's not hard, so for example, the first workloads we transferred over to the file gateway, but there's a particular server which had problems getting things across the network, because of out dated OS on it. So we got the Snowball in and in a matter of three days the data was on the Cloud, so to effect every two weeks up on the Snowball, bring it in two weeks, in three days it goes up back on the Cloud. So there's huge, it doesn't cost us any more to keep it there, so the matter of deletions are no longer there. So just keep it on the Cloud shifting using lifecycle policies, and it's straight forward and simple. That's pretty much it. >> Well you understand physics and the fastest way to get from here to there is a truck sometimes, right? >> Well, literally it is one of the most efficient ways I've seen, and continues to be so. >> Yeah, simple in concept and it works. How much are you able to automate the end-to-end, the process that you're describing? >> At this point we have a few proof of concept of different things that we can automate, but largely because a lot of data is held across bespoke systems, so we've got 30 terabytes spread across sixteen hard disks, that's another use case in offices. We've got 22 terabytes, which I've just described, it's on a single server. We have 20 terabytes on another Windows server, so it's quite disparate, it's quite difficult to find common ground to automate it. As we move forward automation is going to come in, because we are looking at common interface like API Gateways and how they define that, and for that we are doing a lot of work with, we have been inspired a lot by the GDS API designs, and we are just calling this off and it works. That is a road we are looking at, but at the moment we don't have much in the way of automation. >> Can you talk a bit more about sustainability, you've mentioned that a couple of times, double click on that, what's the relevance, how are you achieving sustainability? Maybe you could give some examples. >> So in the past sustainability means that you buy a system and you over provision it, so you're looking for 20 terabytes over three years, lets go 50 terabytes. And something that's supposed to be here for three years gets kept going for five, and when it breaks the money comes in. So that was the kind of very brief way of sustaining things. That clearly wasn't enough, so in a way we are looking for sustainability from a new function say, we don't need to look at long-term service contracts we need to look at robust contracts, and having in place mechanisms to make sure that whatever data goes in, comes out as well. So that was the main driver and plus with the Cloud we are looking at the least model. We've got an annual expenditure set aside and that keeps it, sustainability is a lot about internal financial planning and based on skill sets. With the Cloud skill sets are really straightforward to find and we have engaged with quite a few vendors who are partnering with us, and they work with us to deliver work packages, so in a way even though we are getting there with the skills, in terms of training our team we don't need to worry about complex deployments, because we can outsource that in sprints. >> So you have shipped it from a CAPX to an OPX model, is that right? >> Yes >> So what was that like, I mean, was that life changing, was it exhilarating? >> It was exhilarating, it was phenomenally life changing, because it set up a new direction within the university, because we were the first division to go with the public Cloud and set up a contract. Again thanks to the G-Cloud 9 framework, and a brilliant account management team from AWS. So we shifted from the CAPX model to the OPX model with an understanding that all this would be considered as a leased service. In the past you would buy an asset, it depreciates, it's no longer the case, this is a leased model. The data belongs to us and it's straight forward. >> Amazon continues to innovate and you take advantage of those innovations, prices come down. How about performance in the cloud, what are you seeing there relative to your past experiences? >> I wouldn't say it's any different, perhaps slightly better, because the new SDS got the benefit of super fast bandwidth to the internet, so we've got 20 gigs as a whole and we use about 2 gigs at the moment, we had 10 gig. We had to downgrade it because, we didn't use that much. So from a bandwidth perspective that was the main thing. And a performance perspective what goes in the Cloud you frankly find no different, perhaps if anything they are probably better. >> Talk about security for a moment, how early on in the Cloud people were concerned about security, it seems to have attenuated, but security in the Cloud is different, is it not, and so talk about your security journey and what's your impression and share with our audience what you've learned. >> So we've had similar challenges with security, from security I would say there's two pots, one's the contractual security and one is the technical security. The contractual security, if we had spun up our own separate legal agreement with AWS or any other Cloud vendor, it would have taken us ages, but again we went to the digital marketplace, used the G-Cloud 9 framework and it was no brainer. Within a week we had things turned around, and we were actually the first institution to go live with and account with AWS. That is the taken care of. SDS is a third party security assessment template, which we require all our vendors to sign. As soon as we went through that it far exceeds what the SDS requires, and it's just a tick box exercise. And things like data encryption at rest, in transit it actually makes it more secure than what we are running on premise. So in a way technically it's far more secure than what we could ever have achieved that's on premise, and it's all taken care of, straight forward. >> So you've a small fraction of your artifacts today that are digitized. What's the vision, where do you want to take this? >> We're looking at, I'm speaking on behalf of gardens, this is not me, per say, I'm speaking on behalf of my team, basically we are looking at a huge amount of digitization. The collection should be democratized, that's the whole aspect, bringing it out to the people and perhaps making them curators in some form. We may not be the experts for a massive collection from say North America or the Middle East, there are people who are better than us. So we give them the freedom to make sure they can curate it in a secure, scalable manner and that's where the Cloud comes in. And we backend it using authentication that works with us, logs that works with us and roll-back mechanisms that works with us. So that's were we are looking at in the next few years. >> How would you do this without the Cloud? >> Oh. If you're doing it without the Cloud-- >> Could you do it? >> Yes, but we would be wholly and solely dependent on the University network, the University infrastructure and a single point. So when you're looking at the bandwidth it's shared by students using it network out of the university and our collection visitors coming into the university. And the whole thing, the DS infrastructure, everything's inside the university. It's not bad in its present state but we need to look at a global audience, how do you scale it out, how do you balance it? And that's what we're looking at and it would've been almost impossible to meet the goals that we have, and the aspirations, and not to mention the cost. >> Okay so you're going to be at the summit, the Excel Center tomorrow right? What are you looking forward to there for us from a customer standpoint? >> I'm looking at service management, because a lot of our work, we've got a fantastic service desk and a fantastic team. So a lot of that is looking at service management, how to deliver effectively. As you rightly say Amazon is huge on innovation and things keep changing constantly so we need to keep track of how we deliver services, how do we make ourselves more nimble and more agile to deliver the services and add value. If you look at the OS stack, that's my favorite example, so you look at the OS stack you've got seven layers going up from physical then all the way to the application. You can almost read an organization in a similar way, so you got a physical level where you've got cabling and all the way to the people and presentation layer. So right now what we are doing is we are making sure we are focusing on the top level, focusing on the strategies, creating strategies, delivering that, rather than looking out for things that break. Looking out for things that operationally perhaps add value in another place. So that's where we would like to go. >> Anjenesh, thanks so much for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you >> It was a pleasure to have you. All right and thank you for watching, keep right there we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching The Cube, from London at Amazon HQ, I call it HQ, we're here. Right back. (upbeat music)

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome to the Cubes Live coverage here in Mountain View, California Computer History Museum for Cisco's definite create on John for your host here with Lisa Martin, she's taking a break. Is out getting stories out around for our national Paul Giblin, who's an enterprise architect at Presidio, formerly on the Q Before Cube alumni. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> That's great. CIA's. Well, thank you for >> what? I was looking for this interview because last time we chat with all my cloud hybrid cloud. Now, as an enterprise architect, you're in the middle of all the conversations around how enterprises and commercial businesses are leveraging the cloud multi cloud hybrid cloud. A lot of hype, a lot of reality. But the one thing that's clear is the cloud Cos air blowing away the financial operating performances. Amazon released their earnings today. Amazing financial performance. Amazon Web services have the profit of all of Amazon Amazing. Since they only start in two thousand six, Microsoft change their business plan from being, you know, Hon premise solution software to cloud trillion dollar market cap. It goes on and on and on. But it's a tell sign of the wave that's happening in that is computing network architectures air all transforming an application. Modernization. Tsunami is coming. Renaissance of applications are happening. >> This is a big >> part of what you do when definite creates a Cisco's version of Hey, guys, we got to create the future. Sure, this is the reality. What's your take on all this thes big waves and activity? >> Yeah, I think you know, there's certainly a ton of activity going on around multi cloud, especially with, you know, Amazon. And as your GP uh definite is really a hub for it from the perspective of Cisco. So if you look at the things that people are talking about here this year is supposed to last year, it's It's totally different. Last year, people we're talking >> about Well, how >> do I D ?'Oh, my collaboration absent anyway. And how do I modernized my data center with answerable inscription? Things like that. And this year people are talking about blockchain. They're talking about multi cloud. They're talking about machine learning. There's their spokes over there talking about graft intense airflow and things like that. So what I really like about this event is the fact that it's people who are on the bleeding edge and are thinking about the new thing today before it becomes mainstream. >> Is a great point. Suzy We was on earlier. She's ahead of definite definite create and she had a great team. But one of the things that she said to me, and unless I get your reaction to this is you know she's had research roles in HP, but labs back in the day. So >> you have those research. It's the next big wave coming here. It's really >> people in the bleeding edge who were making it real. So it's not just, you know, some way that's coming. It's actually happening so far. This event really kind of points to what's really now. Your job is you make stuff real right. So you've got a kind of thread. The line between okay, bleeding edge hyper reality and kind of wire it up for customers with Presidio. So you're under a lot of pressure. You've got to do the right thing. You got architect it out. This is kind of where the game is right now. So what's the experience that you're seeing in the real world as this stuff start to become really, as customers want to create better APS better network architectures kind of retrenching happening? What's your What's your thoughts? Whats the key highlights. >> I think people are struggling with decisions around. You know what, what cloud do I put my work loads in? Do I put them in a cloud at all? What workloads do I keep on premise when I'm making these decisions, how do I get these APS to the different places they need to live? How do I have an app that might be stretched from my own premise data center to Azure or to a ws? How do I keep that secure? How doe I network that together? How do I make sure that I'm not the next big headline in the next big reach that comes around So those air, some of the challenges that are out there and they're all things that are difficult to navigate because every organizations a little bit different in terms of the skill sets that they have. So you've got some folks who are right at home. You know, doing a twelve fact, their app on going full on cloud, native and, you know, putting stuff all out on Amazon and not think twice about it. And then you've got a lot of organizations who maybe don't have mature depth shops and have a lot of legacy infrastructure. Folks who still need to retool Enrique it to get up to speed, to bring everything together. >> So skilled gap big time. >> Oh, yeah, >> that's for you guys. Come in. I want to get caught before we came on to talk here live. We're talking off camera around the Gerson Enterprise and a commercial business and the distinction between their needs Enterprise. I was in more complex, you know, multi campus multinational, potentially to commercial businesses. I won't say small music, but people were like pretty much smaller scale. Can you just par set out and talk about what we chatted about the distance between the commercial and the teens and challenging opportunities they have? Visa VI Say it. Enterprise. >> I think it comes down to a lot of the things that we do today are designed to make things simpler. That's not always the case. Sometimes, in order to make it simple. You have to do a very hard thing under the covers to get it that way in the first place. And for a small commercial organization, that's not always the easiest thing in the world. They're typically resource constrained, and their business is not running. Their business is generating revenue through whatever it is that they do now. On enterprise is a little bit different, and enterprise has multiple different revenue streams coming in from multiple different businesses. And they're typically much more invested in a much larger IT staff and have folks who are multi discipline, you know, interface with their peers. Have enough resource is to really, truly adopt a dead mobster. >> Got network team security teams the whole nine yards, I think Chief data officer, all that stuff, commercial organizations Now again, Great opportunity for cloud on both fronts, right? You got enterprises. It kind of would have nicked mixed of public cloud for cloud native work clothes, maybe clean sheet of paper brand new use case hybrid where they won't have operating on premise and then multi cloud that might have azure for three sixty five office and then run Amazon for this or they're so multi cloud seems to be a reality. On one front, commercial organizations seemed tohave cloud on their mind. But legacy apse that they've written software for that might have been written in order, entry system or, you know, some sort of work flow that's tailored for, say, the revenue. How do you advise those two scenarios? >> Yeah, I mean, if you've got a legacy app that you need to contend with, one of the first things you need to do is understand the APP itself. We're having a conversation earlier on what we talked about wass. There's organizations out there who have these applications, and the people who wrote those applications have long ago left. So you've got some new software developers who were coming in. They don't have contextual history, and then you've got infrastructure. People who are keeping the ship afloat but don't know how it floats. They don't understand displacement. >> So you've got these new folks coming in, and then we write our own. We get new ABS higher team. What do we hire ex A. You know, exactly exactly. So you know, there's a decision that >> needs to be made to do. We continue to run this on Prem, Do we consider re platforming in trying to move it out to the cloud Tio? We start fresh and try and re factor. Do we do this in the house? Do we pull in an external third party that try and do that for us? So all the challenges >> so about the relation with Cisco also your party with them you're here a definite create your also a participant in the community. They got definite, which is their core developer. Coming a couple years old. Definite create five years old, Definite creates kind of like brings in the creator's side of it. A za practitioner. Pardon Francisco here to learn and then bring that home to apply to Presidio. How does that work? Explain the folks. How does Presidio were? Francisco. How do you take stuff from definite definite create? How do you commercialize that for your business? And what's the impact of the customer? Sure. >> So it's It's more organic than you might think. So we've got a whole contention of folks here, especially, and I'm going to give a big shout out to our women intact. You were here on DH. These folks are going in there checking out the things that they're into. Is it in? And like I said, there's a diverse group of sessions that are out there spanning machine, learning to blockchain to wish there's somebody right behind us here, I think talking about, >> uh, >> hioki >> it's not a security >> threat somewhere way, air gap, That thing. Yeah, >> So these things folks are sitting in on the sessions that are of interest to them and they're going back to Presidio. And we've got internal WebEx team spaces where all of our folks who are interested in any kind of depth sit down to collaborate. And we are also, you know, maintaining our own internal code repositories where anybody who wants to go take a look at some of the intellectual property we're developing. I can go pull that asset, communicate with the person who's working on it, manipulate it, put it back all that way, also have, you know, sponsorship from the top on down. So from Thomas all the way down it, it's We know that the next generation of engineers need to understand on some level program ability, concepts, and this is a great way to adjust that, >> and this is this is a strategic and parent management behind it. Program ability gives off for some advantages. What's your take on it? I know you. You talk about in the last Cuban. If you want to just come back to the automation opportunity because, you know, let's just face it. Command line interface is how we ran things in networks over the years. But now, with program ability, that's more higher yield activities that architects and network guys and developers can work on. Then the mundane tasks go on. Now if you can program things, certainly with WiFi six and MURAKI, it's all one network. So why not have that visibility to the data? Why not program stuff to make life easier? Your thoughts on this and how it's playing out? >> I think it's, uh, it's playing out slowly and in pockets. I think there's a lot of folks who are working on these kinds of concepts, but they tend to be isolated. So from a network engineer and I come to an event like this, I'm probably going to go back to whatever my day job is, and I might write some of my own code. But unless you have some of those facilities in place that I talked about us having in Presidio, it's difficult to share what you're doing with others on. If it's difficult to share what you're doing with others, she's kind of out on an island, right, so you might have efficiencies that you're gaining. But if you are not taking that and sharing it with other people, your company may not be arriving the full benefit. Now. I think as an individual you could do a lot of good by automating things that you do, which enables you as an individual to focus on even more. But when you look at some of the cool stuff that's out there that could be shared, like the Iraqi demo for the A R looking at access points, that's just phenomenal capability That brings great benefit to a lot of different people. >> So you guys had success with a lot of sharing the collaboration internally, absolute with with the tools you've built. What's the the verdict you guys mentioned? You have some divers, folks here, women in tech, What's the president's here for city like a definite create this year what some of the key highlights from you guys. >> So I think we've got a couple of presenters way have one new definite creator, Mabel. And so she's Ah, believe second female definite creator and the first for Presidio. Jeff and I had taken those down last year and you know, she's she's fantastic. She's running weekly courses for the women and organization to teach them on these concepts. And she's a powerhouse Amazing s o way. Like I said, we have that whole contingent of women in Tech who are here. We've got a handful of gentlemen who are here as well, including Jeff eleven sailor, who you interviewed yesterday, and Greg and use Ellie, both of whom have multiple presentation's going on all standing room only s O. We're definitely invested in different >> directions on the women Tech thing. I think that's huge. I think that's the inclusion thing, that we'd love to see it again. You know, numbers, air still with the percentages, need a lot more work. I mean, just bring in more women and breathes more action. Mohr capabilities. More results. >> Absolutely. I'm all in on women in tech. I have three daughters, so I mean, naturally invested. I'm tryingto help create the world Anyway, I can where they can grow up. And I walked right into a meeting and not have Tio contend with some of the >> democratization of technology is really what it's all about. And, you know, you're not really anything in this community. Let's getem Iraqi, huh? But your house running all your surveillance cameras >> you got in fact are a camera >> app that identifies sexual predators. So I'm gonna have those hanging over my front door now. Nobody's coming anywhere near that. >> That's better than ring. Certainly go in the shark tank pitch that maybe ***. Paul, Thanks for coming on. Great to see you again and congratulate you. Sex distinct, distinct success. Distinguished engineer Now for Ciccio Great company. Give a quick point for the coming. What's going on? Presidio? What do you guys are doing? What kind of work you doing? And how'd people contact you? >> I >> need to be a formal marketeer to do any of this stuff. So, you know >> video is >> authentic and it's real. >> We're We're a three billion dollar organization. We've got three thousand some odd individuals, over half of whom are are certified engineers way. Do everything from cloud Teo I ot to traditional infrastructure collaboration. We've got a huge security practice manage services practice. We do financing s so we really try to be a one stop shop for just about anything. I related a >> lot of creation going on the community here, and I think one of the things that's great is this all about making it really taking the way. That's everyone's riding, getting it, really making it work. Congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> Cube coverage here, here in Mountain View. I'm John Forward the Cube with Lisa Martin here covering Day two of definite create stay with more live coverage after this short break.

(techno music) >> Live from Mountain View California, it's the Cube covering DEVNET CREATE 2019, brought to you by CISCO. >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin with John Furrier covering, day two covering I should say, CISCO DEVNET CREATE 2019, at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California. We're please to welcome Prashanth Shenoy, the VP of Product Marketing, Enterprise Networks and DEVNET at CISCO. Prashanth it's great to have you join John and me this afternoon. >> Great to be here. >> So, this event is growing year after year. John and I have been talking about this very strong sense of collaboration and community with the attendees that are here in person. One of the big things yesterday that Susie was talking about was this, What's coming in Wi-Fi? Talk to us about this next-gen Wi-Fi and how it's going to be so impactful to everyone. >> Yeah it's, it's a phenomenal technology inflection point this year, I feel. We can't believe it, but you know, when was the first Wi-Fi that got started? >> 2001. >> Pretty close, 1999. So this is the 20th Anniversary of Wi-Fi. It's come to be life, right? so it's now in its fourteenth. >> I'm off by two years. >> Right, so yeah, I know. (laughter) But, 802.11A was the first Wi-Fi technology, and the speeds were ... promised speeds were 54-megabits, okay? Ah, but the real speeds were, like, 6-mega or something, right? And now, this is the sixth generation of Wi-Fi, so we've come a long way and we take it for granted in our daily life. >> Absolutely, we do. >> I don't think I can think a day without having Wi-Fi. >> Everyone talks about Wi-Fi. The kids, What's the Wi-Fi password? (laughter) I change it all the time, kids, this ... parents, pro tip. Change the password. >> Yes. You got to listen. They'll call you, your kids will call you back. It's an important tip. >> Full-on security, yeah. >> But distance is been an issue, distance, and >> Yeah. >> Radio Frequency has certain >> Yeah propagation technique so, >> Yeah. >> Are you close to the router? That room doesn't have, this doesn't have it. So there's always been distance. And throughput. >> latency, throughput, capacity. >> Most people say who's streaming Netflix, Wi-Fi is down, so again people know this they experience it everyday. >> Exactly. >> What's the big hubbub about Wi-Fi 6? What's different? I got a little preview from Todd so I'll let you explain it but >> Yeah. >> What is the notable bullet points of why it's different? >> Yeah. >> And, Why it's a game changer? >> So it's, as with every technology, three things that it always brings up, better experiences, better capacity, increase capacity, and better battery savings, which I think is very important for users but more importantly useful for IOT applications, which is ... I'm very very excited on what its going to unleash when it comes to IOT. It's been in the fringe side of IOT, like oil and gas mining utilities is what we think when we think of IOT. And now we're going to think IOT in corporate space like this, right? Each one these devices are IOT devices now, like your HVAC systems, your lighting system, air conditioning systems, physical surveillance cameras. Everything with the Wi-Fi is IOT. And because of this increased capacity, an increase density, high density environment where this capacity becomes really critical, imagine 20 devices simultaneously using Wi-Fi to communicate high Bandwidth intensive application. That's when Wi-Fi 6 becomes really critical and powerful and that opens up a huge - >> So more coverage area. >> Yeah. >> With the Antenna. It's MIMO Antenna. >> Yeah. >> And Bandwidth, right? >> Capacity and Bandwidth, like compare to .11A, and even .11AX, right it's up to 4X better capacity, 4X better battery savings and the promised throughput of like six gigabits, right, so, But the key part here is simultaneously talking to multiple devices at the same time. And that is very very crucial because of technologies ... I don't want to geek out here, like OFDMA and all this etc. >> Well let's all ... architectural because one thing Susie brought up was, architectural shifts are going to be the big game, One of the game changes you brought up and you know Wi-Fi ... and I have seen it grow from the beginning, I remember when they first came out was a revelation and you know the battery power was an issue but it always was viewed as a peripheral to the network. >> Yeah. >> You bolt on Wi-Fi and just basically extend your land - >> Yeah. >> To use network parlance and now you're seeing people working on making it much more Core 1 Network. >> Absolutely. And Meraki kind of shows the benefit of having wireless and wired - >> Yeah. work together as one. >> Yeah, absolutely >> This seems to be the thesis behind Wi-Fi six. One core thing. >> Yeah. >> Not a bolt-on extension. >> No, absolutely. I think there's a saying which is the reality, behind every wireless there are tons of wires, right. So, 'cause everything that's connected to the wire infrastructure, and with the Wi-Fi 6 now having increased capacity and increased density, it's causing a cascading effect into the rest of the network infrastructure so it becomes highly, highly crucial when you architect your network infrastructure not just to think about wireless but what happens to the access switch, to the core, to the distribution, to the aggregation. And that has a compounding effect, like multi gig speeds in the access to 10 gig to 40 gig in the core going all the way to 100 gig, right, so, the whole performance and reliability to have that immersive experience that Wi-Fi six needs to bring in, needs to be there. >> so for developers and entrepreneurs out there who always look for the white space, CISCO is a big Multi-Billion dollar company. You guys got big market share, whenever there's big moves like this it causes a new change in the order, the pecking order - >> Yeah >> of companies, it changes the landscape. This is going to be a game changer because it's going to create the new opportunities to create new things. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What are some of the things that you see out there you could share for people watching who are you know hacking around creating things who say, I want to create something big. What's the enablement? What are some of the things that you see happening that are going to be emerging out of this? >> Yeah, a lot of Fringe technologies that are fringe right now are going to be mainstream, like imagine 2006, When iPhone came in, right so and we were just having the discussion, like, that came in at the heels of major shift in connectivity, that's when 3G came in, right, at that point and multi-megabit capacity, and you saw new applications come in. Now Uber, Lyft, all these kind of applications were possible because of the connectivity. And now, Wi-Fi 6 along with 5G will unleash the next wave of applications. So, first thing is immersive applications, things that are VR, AR, it's used for gaming right now, and kids use this, you're going to see that come in hospitals, where surgeons can do remote surgeries, they can have high-density imagery of your brain, for example, as you're operating, being sent to a remote expert and on the fly, make decisions, right? Like, that is going to be pretty normal and standard, in fact, quite a few of our customers are testing this out, right? VR learning, for students, like, if I were to go ... Like, imagine if you are at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, August 1963, right, listening to MLK "I Have A Dream" speech, and you're in the crowd, immersed in the VR, like, which student wouldn't have more recollection and really connect with that, right? >> I'm sorry, wait - >> You're going to see more and more of these, so it's a better way of learning, and really getting that learning sticking in your brain, you're going to see more of that happening. And the same goes with retail experience, you're shopping, it's going to completely change the way, because of all these immersive experiences. And then, because of the higher density, you're going to see entertainment venues like stadiums where everybody now wants to share their experience to the outside world, and livestream it, right? And I was talking to Carnival Cruise Line, who's one of our customers, and they call themselves City On The Sea, which means, a cruise ship is nothing but it has entertainment, casinos, hotels - >> Lots of food. (laughs) >> Lots of food, swimming pools Concerts happening, and when people took vacation they just wanted to disconnect from everything in the world, right? Now, it's completely reversed. They want to connect full-on, and share their experience in the land, right? And they want to stream it live, 4K. And, these cruise ships are transforming themselves to provide this always-on, fully-on immersive digital experience, and they're creating things like a mobile app to order pizza no matter where you are on the ship. Within five minutes they're going to find the exact location of where you are on the ship and deliver pizza to you, right? These kind of experiences will happen! >> And you know, the perfect storm in all this too, is that the Cloud earnings are coming out, we saw Microsoft's earnings yesterday, Amazon Web Series' earning >> Yeah. do proud of Amazon today, the Cloud stocks are up, the Clouds are growing at a massive scale, they're a power source for these application developers. >> Yeah. >> As well as the on-premise business. So you have, you now have the perfect developer environment - >> A hundred percent. >> To create these new wacky ideas that will be standard. I mean, what was once ... what we take as standard as you mentioned, was a wacky idea in 2006. >> Yeah. >> Location services, checking into a hotel with my phone and having - >> Yeah. >> Cars being delivered to me, what? Who does that? >> And this, this becomes a reality, and Cloud really increased the pace of innovation, right? Now it's kind of cheaper, you don't need to get your own server, you can kind of swipe your credit card, get a bunch of VM, start building applications, and now you have the required bandwidth capacity and density in your infrastructure, and you have the right devices right now to bring that experiences to you, right? So, now it's this trifecta of things, awesome devices, the network ready to deliver those experiences, and Cloud being able to scale out to build those experiences. >> Prashanth, I know you've got a big announcement coming up on the 29th, it's a virtual event, I think Cisco.com, they can probably find out with the URL where the event is, without revealing all the secret sauce, I know you guys had Wi-Fi 6 inside Cisco, >> Yeah. >> testing it out, I heard people in the hallway here, >> Yeah. >> Talking about it, um, and they're pretty animated in their commentary. Can you share the vibe and what's it like when the engineers look at the data, when they say, we just deployed the Wi-Fi 6, what was the reactions, um - >> Yeah. >> Were they blown away, was it mediocre, was it - >> Yeah. >> What were some of the things that they were saying, what was the feedback? >> We were piloting that, and the best way to look at it is, if you go to the wireless dev center on DevNet, you're going to see that we compared a 4K video running with Wi-Fi 6 and without Wi-Fi 6. I think the results speak for themselves. Like, the kind of experience that you're going to see, it's going to be beautiful, and when employees look at those things, and I talked about a few experiences, last week we had a thing called Cisco Beat which is internal employees that we rally around and talk about technology, but more importantly, what it means to us as human beings in a personal way, and what it means to our customers, and they were blown away with some of the applications that are going to be mainstream in all of the industries that I talked about, right? Like Healthcare, hospitality, education, entertainment venues, et cetera. >> What's the low-hanging fruit use cases? What's the things that are going to be right obvious, right out of the gate for companies to implement, in terms of deploying Wi-Fi 6 and seeing immediate benefits? >> Immediate benefits is high-density environment, period. Like student lecture halls, convention centers, areas like this, where everybody wants, like, understand what's going on, but be digitally and visually connected, right? It's not only about email checking anymore, That happens automatically. But if you're here and you want to watch Susie's keynote livestream right now, with high density, and 20 other people want to watch with you, on their devices, it's possible, without a hitch. So that seamless, always-on experience becomes a reality that people can easily test out in small environments, right? Not in their entire environment, where there are high-density of people, accessing multi-media applications or high-bandwidth applications, so I feel that's a low-hanging fruit. And then it's going to go more and more towards IOT applications where sensors are getting connected, like some of our customers are brewers, have hundreds and thousands of sensors in their farms, in brewing machines, and they want all of their data to come and look at that simultaneously for quality control, right? Beer, no matter where it's made, should taste consistent, right? So you can see that coming to life, because now all of these can be connected, and because of better density and better capacity and better battery savings for these IOT devices that Wi-Fi 6 provides, you make these applications possible. So you're going to see very vertical-specific applications coming more and more with Wi-Fi 6. >> Vertical-specific, because you mentioned a number of different customer examples, you know, ranging from retailer, to - >> Yeah. >> Carnival Cruise Line, it's now this connected city - >> Yeah. >> Are there any verticals you see where, when you're talking with customers they're not quite there yet? >> Yeah, that's an interesting thing, it's ... for a change, you always have these early adopters but there is a lot of laggers who are just watching, waiting on the sidelines saying, mm, that's not for me. With Wi-Fi 6, there's been a lot of industry excitement, I would say, like manufacturing full-on, right, just coming on board. Retail, higher education, are always in the early-adopter phase, because for them, and there has been studies shown to say this directly impacts their brand - >> Yes. >> like customer experience defines brand. >> Oh, absolutely. >> And Wi-Fi, equals customer experience these days, right? So, you're going to see all of these industries really, I think I haven't seen much in maybe financial services, if you will, I think that's the only thing that I can remember, transportation, big on, like, machine to machine communication, autonomous driving is possible now because of 5G and Wi-Fi 6, right? So, and you are seeing more and more of this industry - >> This is right in your wheelhouse, and you guys have been pushing the edge for a long time, SD Wind, campus networking This is not new to Cisco. >> Yeah. >> But now with Wi-Fi 6, it literally lights that up. >> Yeah. Yup. >> Pun intended. >> I mean, you can now enable those environments to be completely robust, fully addressable, data-driven - >> Yeah. I think data that you mentioned becomes very, very crucial in this, because, especially now when you have so many more users, so many more devices, so many more applications getting on the network, people are really trying to figure out, what do I do with this? How do I get visibility into ... am I delivering the right experience? Am I providing the right security, et cetera, right? So, data becomes extremely crucial, and you'll see emergence of ML and AI technology because it's going to be humanly impossible to look at all of the data and make sense. So you've got to do machines, do their job, figure out patterns, air on dwell time, foot traffic, predictive ways of saying things may break, the experience may change, and predicting that even before they happen, and giving the right insight to the IT in the line of business, so Wi-Fi 6 is going to open up a whole new slew of ML and AI-driven operations and management capability too, so that's pretty exciting. >> When are they going to pull up a GPU on the Wi-Fi 6 devices? >> (laughs) Oh, it's happening. >> It's ready? >> It is going to happen, because you can run Edge computing applications right on Wi-Fi 6 devices, so you're going to see all of that, so, application hosting capabilities with GPU powered applications are going to be there. >> Just a network connection, right? >> Yeah. So you are going to see that, and frankly even I don't know what some of the Edge computing applications with Wi-Fi 6 will be, but we are seeing more and more of these coming ... DevNet buying tech, yeah. >> Well we did some research, we keep on a part of our SiliconANGLES team, where we prove that it's easier and more cost-effective, rather than moving data around, you move compute to the Edge - >> Edge. >> And then you use the backhaul, 'cause it costs money to send data around the network. It's costly. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and the autonomous cars was one great example, right? Like, it's a life-and-death situation when you are letting the car drive itself, right? So, you can't send all the data to the Cloud and say, analyze it for me. There are instantaneous decisions to be made, in milli-micro- nanoseconds, that need to be done on the Edge. So I think autonomous cars are a great example of Edge computing that needs to happen right on the Edge. The learning can then start happening in the Cloud, right? As in when these things get more and more smarter, you send all this data, you correlate all the intelligence there, you send it back to the machines. So you're going to see these kind of Edge computing applications. >> So you're excited by Wi-Fi 6? >> Nah. >> (laughter) >> Wi-Fi 6, so that's an even number, is that to be odd numbers, or lucky, I mean, the naming convention? >> No! >> Is there a - >> We want to be better than 5G. (laughter) So 5G is fifth generation of cellular, >> Okay. >> Wi-Fi 6 is sixth generation of Wi-Fi, right? I mean it's - >> So you're going to trump the 5G with the 6, >> Yeah. >> Kind of get ahead of it. >> Because it is truly the sixth generation of Wi-Fi. >> Okay, that's what it is. >> If we were to go back in time we would call 802.11ac, Wi-Fi 5. Right? It's kind of not that easy to say, but yeah, so Wi-Fi 5 happened like three or four years back, and now it's Wi-Fi sixth gen, so. >> We'll have to do a deep dive in the studio sometime, >> Oh, absolutely. >> on getting into all the spectrum issues, you know, the channels - >> Yeah. >> And the antennas and chains and all that good stuff. >> Yeah. There's a lot to geek out on that. (laughs) >> Yeah, it's going to be fun. >> So you talked about, kind of before we wrap up here, you talked about, you know, everything really kind of being related to, or how this can help companies with brand, and brand is everything to any type of company - >> Yeah. >> We talk at every event we go to about how it's all about customer experience. >> Yeah. >> So my last question for you is, how is Wi-Fi 6 and some of these new technologies that clearly you're excited about, how do you think that's going to change the experience for your internal customers, and from being able to get things out faster, to your external Cisco customers? >> Yeah, when you say internal, our own employees - >> Yes. >> Our R and D? >> Yes, exactly. >> Absolutely. So I think, and one of the examples was shown right here, right, so, and I'm connecting the two answers that you had, like, there's a lot of technology details behind what we do, right, we spend tons of money doing R and D, but we wanted to expose that to our own customers, to our channel partners, and to our developers, right? So, this is something that Wi-Fi 6 brings a lot to our customers. So, all the goodness, the intelligence that we have hidden in our network, now gets exposed, through these APIs, to our developers, and to our own customers. So the internal customers of ours, which are engineers, Cisco IT, are tremendously excited to see what that unveils to us, right? And DevNet provides that platform where you can expose this through APIs, whether it's for security, whether it's for application experience, whether it's for better operations, and have new co-creation of applications that we haven't envisioned, new ways of ecosystem partners coming up and building new applications that we haven't envisioned. So, for our own R and D teams, it's pretty exciting. Because - >> Big catalyst. >> Yeah, just, exactly. You're just providing the platform, it's the catalyst for innovations, and that's what the internet was when we created that, right? We didn't know the internet of 20 years back is going to be the internet of today, and we didn't envision that, but here we are. >> Well the ETI's going to open up your market, because you're going to create an enablement to pass that forward, the opportunities to other developers to come up with the ideas. >> Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole idea, is to provide them a platform to come up with innovations and ideas, and help share these ideas to other folks, right, because when the minds meld, it gets better and better. >> Build some good apps, make ... get it distributed on Wi-Fi 6, make some money, build a business, create a great app - >> Runs on your feet. It's step by step. >> It's a big inflection point. >> That's a pretty good motto. >> It's an inflection point. >> It is. It is truly, I believe, an inflection point. Mainly because, frankly, Wi-Fi 6 and 5G coming together, truly, because me and you as a user really don't care whether I'm on Wi-Fi or cellular, and we shouldn't, right, all I expect is no matter what I do, where I go, and I use my device, I should get the same consistent seamless experience. >> It works. >> Well I don't have the unlimited plan, so I'd love to have it - >> You would with that. on the Wi-Fi. (laughter) >> So you've got this virtual event next week on the 29th - >> Yeah. >> Is that going to tee up anything, any exciting things we're going to hear at Cisco Live a few weeks later? >> Oh yeah. Big time. Big time. (laughs) >> Any teasers you can give us? >> Without getting fired? Yeah, it's going to be tough. (laughter) No, yeah, I think things that we talked today are what we're going to explain more, and we're going to give more flavor on what Cisco's actually is actually doing from our products perspective, solutions, partnership perspective, to bring it to life, right? So, that's really exciting, so I highly encourage the folks that are watching this to register for this on Cisco.com Go Wired For Wireless event, so it's fun, because we've got a lot of industry experts, customers because that's where rubber meets the road - >> Absolutely. >> And that's where the top good applications, how far along they are, what are they testing, what are they trying out, and then we can geek out on all the technology, right? But it always starts with why, and why does it matter. So ... and that's why I'm excited, yeah. >> It sounds exciting. My cheeks are hurting from smiling. Prashanth, thank you so much ... right? ... for sharing your enthusiasm, your energy and expertise, it's been fun. We look forward to, uh, the virtual event next week, and hearing more about what's going on at Cisco Live. >> Thanks Lisa, thanks John. >> Well, our pleasure. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching The Cube live from day two of our coverage, of Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> from Washington, D. C. It's the queue covering science logic. Symposium twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Science Logic. >> Hi, I'm student men and this is the Cubes coverage of Science Logic. Symposium twenty nineteen here at the Ritz Carlton in Washington, D. C. Been four hundred sixty. People here just finished the afternoon Kino, and they've actually gone off to the evening event. It's thie yet to be finished. Spy Museum. They get a good three sixty view of Washington D. C. So the hallways are a little echoing in quiet but really excited to have on the final guest of the day. Eric Gordon, who's the vice president of business development and alliances as science logic. Erik, thanks so much for joining me, >> thanks to you. Great to be here. >> All right, so busy. Dev and Alliances. I've talked to a number of your partner's. I've gone through a lot of things, but you wear, I think, just like your CEO. A few different hats. Ah, and your old let's let's get into what your role is that the company? >> Yeah, it's actually changed over time, but for the most part I've to court responsibilities. One is I'm looking after our ecosystem of technology partners. And so we have from key strategic CE that we work with in the marketplace, in the cloud space on the data center, all across the ecosystem, a lot of different technologies. But we also have products that we resell input on our priceless that combined to create a solution for our customers in the second half of what my responsible is really focused on. What is our product strategy around integration? Automation? Because those Air Corps components to our platform and I look after that with several different teams. >> So let's talk about that the ecosystem pit person, the alliances. Because I got a lot of shows. I talked to a lot of companies, and it's all too easy for companies to be like, Oh, we're we're the best and we do so many different things. And when I first heard about the space in a ops, it's like, Oh, well, I I Ops is replacing a lot of waves and, you know, your average customer replaces fourteen tools. I heard there's one customer who replaces fifty tools, but at the same time, there was a strong focus about integrations in deeper even some of the products that you say, Yeah, there's overlap in that competitive, you know, you're working with those environments, so give us a little bit of the philosophy, how you balance that, you know, we want to do it all and help our customers to do lots of different things. And especially when you get to big customers and service providers, we understand that it's a big world and there never is that, you know, mythical single pane of glass. >> Yeah, no, totally agree. And we hear this a lot. You know, I've got a tool for this. I got a tool for that and or I had to Vendor come in and say that they could do it all. And you know, really, At the end of the day, if there's there's no one vendor on DH, you know the Venn diagrams of functionalities, air overlapping. That's the nature of the industry. And when we saw this on the early days of it with the big monopolies. But I think right now it's it's around. How do we saw the customer problem? Mohr effectively, From our perspective, we look at the combination of things. First is is what solutions out there give us good data data that we can use data that we can enrich, how we can leverage that to help drive better insights from other types of data that we collect so that theirs is where integration is a keep part of this on DH. What we know is that ultimately in our space, we're doing about monitoring a core collection. We're goingto have to click with everybody, so we're gonna have to integrate with any partner that might have some form of I. P are connected through an I p address to some sort of a p I. We need that data. So we have partnerships on that side. I think really, what's interesting is when we think about things like workflow or orchestration or types of mediation, we might integrate with other technologies to enrich that data further. So we look for partners that ultimately our customers air using things that we can do consolidation and drive better outcome with that enrich date experience. >> Yes, so let's drill down one little bit if you talk about like, you know a PM and SM tools out there some recent announcements and and you digging deeper on there. What what are some of the highlights? So one >> thing is, if you already have, like, agents are often come up, Our customs says, Well, I've got an A P M. Agent that's already doing some things. Well, that's great. We can leverage that, that there's some good insight that we can gather from either to apologies or other metrics or like in user experience. But we also go deeper on other aspects, like on the network side or on the infrastructure side, or on the the cloud service aside. So, you know, ultimately, it's a conversation of say, what? What can we leverage? What, what's accurate, what's in real time? And if there's things that we can, you know, gather, then that's our primary strategy. So I you know, I do think the ecosystem plays a key role in a i ops, but really, to do that, it's run automation because anything that we do, we have to do with scale and we have to do with security. We have to do it with the intent of driving some form of outcome. And so, you know, those are the key principles behind selecting technology partners. >> Okay, Let's talk some about that automation. It was a big discussion in the keynote this morning. Really talking about the maturity model. One of the analysts up there says you really want to make sure you separate things like, you know, the machine learning piece of it with the automation. The observation I've made a couple of times is, you know, yes. We all know you can automate a really bad process. And so I need toe, you know, make sure, you know, do I have good data And, you know, how am I making automation make me better Not just, you know, to change things. >> Yeah, well, I think it's Science Lodge that we look at. Automation is in every part of what we do within the product. From the from the collection of how we automate it scale how we consolidate that data. And then we're doing a lot of the data preparation using automation technologies. And then when we start to analyze and enrich that data, we're also using it Other algorithmic approaches, for example, topology and context. So if we know that some things connected weaken Dr An automation to make an inference and that data then feeds into the final step, which is around how we action on that. So we drive automation in the classic sense to say trigger workflow or, let's say, update another system of record or system of truth like a C M G B or a notification. And so one of things that we did hear from Garden this morning is engaging in an SM process. Is a core part of AI ai ops as muchas data collection and driving other forms of automation. >> All right, Do you have some examples of you know how automation you're helping your customers love any customer stories you've got along that line? >> Well, >> really. You know, there's so many stories we're hearing the halls of Symposium, and so it's it's it's hard to pick one, but, you know, I think all ten times what we say is, what what's driving your service desk time like you've got people you know, looking at all of these different dispirit systems, and we can look at it. Let's say a top end of your most sort of frequented events or alerts, or even look at your top service desk incidents and say, How could we automate that, you know. And some of that automation could be at the technology level, you know, simplest as restarting a service or prove you re provisioning of'Em. Or it could be clearing a log or even maybe shutting down an event because it's irrelevant. So there's There's several different examples in the cloud as well. Terms of how things air provisioning attached. And if we see something out of a policy, we can alarm that say, hey, maybe my storage costs are going to accelerate because someone made a bad change. So there's different ways that we can apply automation during the life cycle. But I think enhancing the service management component perhaps is one of the most impactful ones, >> you know. So, Eric, we azan industry automation been something we've been talking about for quite a while now, and they're they're sometimes pushback of, you know, from the end, users especially, you know, some of the practitioners out there as you know. Well, I could do it better. You know, the fear that you're going to lose your job. How are you seeing that progressing and you know, how were things different today? Both from a technology standpoint, as well as from your customers. Can't wait. >> I think if you asked any enterprise CIA already service provider, service delivery manager, they'd always say, I'd love to operate as much as I can when you get down on the practitioner level. You know, obviously I think there's some sort. Like I I do my job, Thank you very much. I have my favorite wit, my process. So I think there's a conversation depending on. You know, if we're saying hey from the practitioner side, is there set of data that you need or set of scripts? Or are things that you're doing manually that we can put into a workflow? And at the at the business layer, it's like, Do you feel like you're getting the value from some of the investments you've made? And is, how is automation? Help you realize that an example there is. We see oftentimes is around the quality of data that's going into the C, M. D. B and from AA AA. Lot of times we see that their investment in technology is like service now, and other platforms is fairly high expense, and they want to optimize that, and they want to realize the power of automation at the at the service level. So if we can, if we can convince, if you will, through a set of really concrete use cases that the data coming from science logic at the speed and the quality can actually improve the seemed to be to >> the level of >> really efficient automation. All of a sudden, people start to see that as a change as an opportunity. And that's where I think a I Ops is helping change the narrative, to say how automation Khun B really, really applied rather than just being this mystical concept that is hard to do. And, you know, people don't liketo think that a robot's taking their job. I think what's gonna happen is that machine learning algorithms are going to make jobs easier and, you know, ultimately were far, far from the point where a ized doing something and some sort of, you know, crazy automata way. But I think it's the deep learning, moving a machine learning to you. No good quality data sets that dr meaningful insights that's giving us a lot better view until where automation could play in the >> future. Yeah, absolutely. It's our belief that you know, automation. There's certain things that you probably don't want to do because repetitive, it's boring or mistake prone on DH. Therefore, you know automation can really help those environments move forward. You could move up the stack. You can manage those environment. There's definitely some retraining that that needs to happen often. But you know that the danger is if you're if you're doing now what you were doing five years ago, chances are your competition is moving along and, you know, finding a better way to do it. >> You know, just a point on this soup is really around the velocity of data that's coming in. So we're seeing, you know, we talked about the three bees. You know, the volume of data. You have to use automation to be able to manage that huge amount of different data sources, the variety. There's no human that can process the amount of machine information from the amount of technologies that you have on DH that you know. Obviously it's speed, right. The velocity and that is that is clearly not going to be something that any human could be capable of doing. And so there's a relationship here between technology and human processes and science logics and a really interesting position right now to really kind of help with that process. But more importantly, accelerate the value by being all to process it and make it intelligent. >> Wait, Erica, you're saying I'm not neo from the Matrix and I can't, you know, read through everything and be able to move faster than physics allows. Give >> yourself maybe fifteen, twenty years. We might be. You know that that you know, I don't think that that many people can really predict the impact of the you know, we'LL say machinery, evolving toe, artificial intelligence and there's it's going to be very used, case specific. But we do know one thing is that algorithms? Air helping. But algorithms are dependent on that clean data stack, right? And And if you can't handle the scale, then obviously there's going. It's going to be minimized in terms. Is total utility >> alright? Well, Eric, I get the good to let you give us that the final word from science logic from Symposium twenty nineteen on the Cube. >> So you know, the first thing is is this is there's two things that we learned from this event. The first thing is, is how our customers you're evolving in this dynamic space. And what we know is that if if you don't change, it's going to be a problem. Because the only consistent thing is change and change is happening faster on it. And we call that disruption. And so what we want to do is we want to understand how science AJ is a technology company. I can really help that customer go through that transition with confidence. And then, more importantly, is what could we do? Delivering better, more enrich solutions to our customers that actually are changing the way the game is played. And so we feel like we're a disrupter in the A ops market. We are. Certainly Forrester has helped us recognize that. But But we're not done work. We're continuing on this journey. >> All right, Well, Eric, routine. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and the journey towards Aye, Aye, Ops. Thanks so much to. All right. Well, that comes to an end of what we're doing here at science Logic. Symposium twenty nineteen. I know. I learned a lot. I hope you did too. I'm stew Minutemen. Thanks so much from our whole crew. Here it's Silicon Angle Media's The Cube. Check out the cube dot net for all the videos from this show, as well as where we'LL be in the future. Reach out if you have any questions and once again, thanks for joining us.

>> live from Mountain View, California. It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to You by Cisco >> Welcome back to the cave. Lisa Martin with John Fourier. Live at Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California John Mayer, please to welcome to the Cube Jeff Levin, sailor collaboration Engineer from Presidio Jeff, It's great to have you joining us today. >> Yes, great to be here. >> So lots of energy. You can hear all this noise behind us. We heard this morning in the key note that the definite community is now well over half a million strong. You mentioned before we went line. This is your second definite creates before we get into our city and Cisco. Tell me a little bit about your involvement in the definite community. >> Uh, so I got >> started just looking for support, and it's not like it's a supported product. This is a new venture for everybody. So you go out and you find these little avenues to get questions answered. And WebEx teams has a great community support and just ask a question ended up answering more questions than I was asking, and, you know, that kind of like got me started down this path of, you know, people bounce ideas off each other So really, this is Ah, homecoming. And it's just people inspiring each other If you really want to learn And deep dive Obviously I'm a self learner, so I'll just sit down and really get into it. But I come here to get inspired and the Kino just >> Will you wait? Yeah. What was the key? What was the highlight for you on the Kino? What was >> anything Ashutosh has to talk about? Ashutosh is on the I guess, the incubator side. He comes up with these things, and his job is to get people excited about the FBI's. So today he had an augmented reality app with his phone and he would go around and show network coverage of a WiFi hot spot. You can go up to an access point and troubleshoot network of problems by seeing if on access, points registered or not. So my mind, I'm thinking how many times I go in the data center and look, I have to plug in a laptop to look to see what the lands on a port. Now, Aiken take that same approach too, you know, put my phone out in a data center, and okay, this witch has ah, this V lands here. I could plug it. Antonito even need to plug my laptop. >> I mean, he first introduced the beginning of that demo at Cisco Live in Barcelona. Totally blown away. He's a demo. God first. Yeah, he's amazing. But it shows the automation right and also shows the new kind of experiences. I think to me what is inspiring to me about this community. I'd love to get your reaction. This is that It kind of shows a new way to do work. And it's all about making life easier, But it's also more capability. You can see all the configurations and then ultimately writing new apse. That seems to be the theme. Create definite curiosity with all these capabilities. Is that kind of something that you're seeing as well? What's your reaction to that? That kind of this new way of doing things. >> Wow. I mean, it's we have a code competition are Presidio called Shark Tank, and it's really just to inspire people. Uh, tell me a business use case for this Use cases really ninety percent of it. You confined help you confined mentors your work. But, uh, really Just finding a use case and stuff like this coming here just thinking about new ways to do things and do things to create >> in collaboration What? Some of the things that you see that are low hanging fruit use cases of either mundane tasks or stuff that just needs to be kind of like, abstracted away. What are some of the things >> I have a ton of those s o. Somebody came to me, a law firm that had these attorney's secretary assignments, and they wanted Secretary is to be able to schedule meetings for attorneys. You could do that in a gooey, but we're seeing more and more is away from the buoy. And it's becoming this FBI first. So anything that's not in the gooey, it's in the AP, I So that's where our values integrators has really become. This gap between the jury and the FBI. So what we did, or what I did is going active directory, have some fields filled out because they're already populated. One thing for this I read from that, and then I goto WebEx a p I and I populated, and that runs a nightly basis. >> You automate thataway. Yeah, piece of cake. But this is the trend. This is kind of what we're seeing happening with Cloud the question that comes up in the enterprises. Look, att. Hey, you know, we've been doing this thing for long times the way we do it. We, You know, ten years ago we built out this system. Don't touch it. But I love the new stuff. How do I get the new stuff in? How do I deal the old stuff, The legacy. And we got containers. Got some news stuff. A p. I's a big part of this integration fabric composing APS. I think you have to show >> that the business value it's it's saving time. It's saving people ours, and it's really checking code into get is something you wouldn't think about. Checking network config. Thing to get is something you wouldn't really think about, Uh, just a year ago. But that's really becoming the trend and having a testable code and, uh, you know, kind of Ah, if something goes wrong, I have a backup. You have somebody you know exactly who did what before it was just people hacking away. >> So let's talk about unlocking value for a second. When you were talking with John about what some of the things that blew your mind during this morning's keynote one I was hearing from you and one senses how how much easier certain functions of yourjob are going to be because of this? What value are you seeing that even just a few things that we were announced this morning is going to bring, too? Not just you and your business, but for city and Cisco's customers? >> Well, I mean So, for instance, the Iraqi thing, uh, they released bulk actions. So AP eyes. Typically, if you write the code one of the time, that's goingto limit your ability to do certain functions. Having all these AP eyes in one and point immediately, I'm thinking cloud formation templates. Name is on but ism Iraqi solution, so you could take this entire network and copy and paste. It is one slice of code. That's tremendous. >> What's the community vibe here? Definite. I mean big invention. >> It's a homecoming. I know all these people have met so many people from other areas and people competitors. We're all friends here, you know, And it's not a marketing ventured all you don't see a lot of people you know, scanning badges and bugging you on email later. This is all about just people hurting out about What they've done >> is we're getting >> the show until >> I like >> that. It's not just the hacker fond, you know, Hey, revenue event. They throw a hackathon over it and it turns out the most these events trees, a marketing event. It's completely eyes that >> unorganized as I would want it to be. There's conversations just passing by in the hallway, and I get just as much out of that as I do in a workshop. >> So you're giving a breakout session later today. Contact center. A eye for more efficient governments. >> Yes, that's a twenty minute lightning talk on just a recent project I did and taking an arm from a solution and be able to do Mohr by moving it up to the cloud. This's Amazon connect could be another one, but just basically enabling through the cloud different functionalities we're using Alexe pot, reason, elastic search, reason Landa and we're we're taking the top ten tickets this help desk would receive and trying to automate this. So I need to reset my pen. I need to transfer me to this person that was an operator before in an Excel spreadsheet. So what we did was completely not change your workflow. They're going to upload it, excels for a cheat and has three. It's going to take a Landau function to separate that spread she into a dynamo database Elastic search, going to read that database. And then Lex Boss is goingto interact with elastic search >> and his all in real time. >> It's all in real time. >> And they thought, this all natural language talking together you're working together, >> working together >> to solve those customer problems or get well that And I guess, get the customer that the ticket routed appropriately. >> Yeah, so there's take a look ups to get creation to get clothes and anything that you would typically anything that you can automate. We've done it within the ivy are and we've measured containment rates. So >> yeah, this is exactly why we've been covering. This is our third year, but here in the beginning, at the creation of the event, because what you just described is so valuable and so kind of basic. If you think about it, the number one tickets that everyone that stack ranked haven't over and over again. But breaking towns this going database for this? I got a database for this. I got a database for this. The old world. You have a waterfall process, you have a product. Project manager. People would go in a round trip meeting after meeting, arguing aboutthe ski mus and databases. And I mean, what would it be like in the old days, if you like, went through the traditional models versus his agile? Hey, let's just put it together. Hackett string up. So maybe eyes sling the FBI's rolling up, wiring up >> siding. Me, you're moving from a static ivy are too self service. And then even more what I think you forget who coined the term. But selfie service. You know more about a user you're able to predictably say, I see you have a ticket open or go a step further and say, I see have email on this phone and we're having active sync issues and only alert those people of issues and not bother everybody else. I see you work out of this office and you're calling in. Are you calling about, uh, you know, your office closure? Because we have a temporary office for you over here, So being able to get ahead of anything and predict that's the next thing >> I know. This really also highlights when we tend to talk about us when these data conferences, where the underlying value being here is the creation and stitching together with solutions. But it's the data that's driving it right. The tickets that ranking the the task getting if these reasoning aspect of reasoning with the data predictive are prescriptive, is a personalization benefit thes air. The things that are exposed on this new way of creating >> there's there's some real exciting, very consumable AP eyes out there. One of them all name is in dico io, and this is something that you could just plug in some data. Then I'll make a prediction using just a bunch of learned data set that it already has, and I'LL give you an example WebEx team space way just chat away, and for months and months, I funnel that data to a simple FBI and it comes back and tells me Who's the angriest person who's the happiest person? There's an f b I for Who's a conservative who's a liberal. There's an A p I. For the Myers Briggs test. >> I'LL get all of this. You are the girl. What's the emiko dot io? Indeed, In dico dico i n d >> i c e o dot io >> Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that on the AP. I think I want to get your expert opinion on this because this comes up a lot recently. At these conferences, we go to where some oh new way to develop modern applications. Blah, blah, blah, waterfalls going away. Fiber Clavell. That's good stuff. Check, check, Check. At the end of the day that the key ingredient all this is AP AP Eyes are becoming the centre point for one data sharing integration coding Middle, where a new kind of middleware evolving? What's your view on this? Because this is an essential part of integration to like If someone wants to adopt a new product, I want to bring it in. It's really >> recognizing that your use case isn't everybody's used case, so you come from a static, fully functioning product to an FBI first approach, you build the FBI, then you build things around it. So when WebEx teams is released, for instance, it had certain functionality there and certain functionality wasn't there. But you could do it to the FBI. So it's partners and Cisco kind of competing at the same time to come up with a better solution. Any time you compete, you know it's good in any time something is open. It's good. So you have these Open A P I's and you have a community trying to come up with the best solution on DH. It's >> and that's really where communities of shining too right now, because you're going to community. They're great at giving feedback. If something something's not right, raise their hand. Appoint honest >> feedback, right? >> Yeah, competition. So Cisco telling Cisco something's not working. You know, you bring in some other people that maybe they're mohr AP to tell you when something's not working. They don't have any dog in the fight. You know, they'LL tell you if something's not working, they'LL give you feedback, and it really enables a better in product and a product that's more form to tailor fit for that user. That use case, >> which is exactly how it should be. Right? So last question, Jeff, before we wrap up, you already talked about how excited you were with some of the things in the Kino was day one of to >> me >> kind of expectations or hopes and dreams for what you're going to learn the rest of today and tomorrow that will help evolve the Presidio Cisco partnership. >> I mean, one thing is just making connections out here, Uh, but learning? I think so. I'm a collab guy and I'm getting to be more of a developer, and that's making me more of a generalist again. Because as a developer, yu have to interact with more than just collab FBI's. I'm getting into wireless and enterprise and everything security. So what I get out of combat is like, this is going around seeing what's happening and other technologies and other verticals and once again, competitive ideas seeing what other people are doing. Adding to that telling them what I'm doing A >> lot of collaboration pun intended. >> Yeah, You like it If you like puns. The keynote tomorrow is gonna be amazing. >> Is it way watching? Excellent. Jeff, Thanks so much for joining. Joining me on the Cube today. We appreciate your time for Joe inferior. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from Cisco Dove Net. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Mountain View, California. It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome back to the cave. Lisa Martin with John Barrier on our first day of two days of coverage of Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. John Eyre. Please welcome to iniquitous and directors solutions, architecture and Devil Box from Liberty Technology. Tony, Welcome. >> How are you? >> Good, thanks for Thanks for having us tell our audience a little bit about liberty technology before we get into the community. What you doing your breakout session? >> Not a problem. The re technology is a company. Where? MSP company down in Griffin, Georgia. And so we handle a lot of a lot of clients are either public sector cities, all different types of all the different verticals. So well. And so do you have a client? A customer out there that needs needs an extra arm into it. We're there for them. >> So your basement of Georgia, Which means that how warm it is in here today Outside should be nothing for you right >> now. Tell me about >> well outside >> now, since there is no humanity I like it back home in few minutes, >> Californians were babies. >> Yeah, Joni, Public Sector. We've done a lot of interviews of public sector folks with their towns and cities, air, ground rules, municipalities, cities, their I t light. And then they don't have the Dev ops expertise, but clouds a perfect fit for them. But they have a lot of certain characters. Whether it's email is very ephemeral. People come and go, So getting people collaborating in these distinct user groups that have different roles and responsibilities is a challenge. How are you guys solving that? Because there's something I know you guys have worked on. There's a challenge that's only Republicans for enterprises do. How do you bring people that are distinct user populations that have an application or roll or use case into a collaborative, horizontally scaleable >> system? We show Be honest way. Go in there and we go in there and we discover as to what they're doing now, what are their pain points? What do they want? Change where they want to go and then we show them the collaboration started. We shone like what makes team's way? Show him all of the, uh, meetings room devices, things like that. And then not just on the collaboration side, but also if there helping with three, six, five their security than Rocky. That's how we bring. That's how we bring collaboration intothe public >> about the Cisco dynamic we've been covering definite create since it started. Definite. Now it's just go live couple years, seeing kind of a new vibe and new mojo going on with that within the Cisco ecosystem of actually coding stuff up, whether it's slinging AP eyes together or creating new ones. New capabilities. How is it changed the delivery in performance of the customers? Because this is not just your old school Cisco networking company. Yeah, they got APS. Things are connected. Date is moving from Point A to point B. All right, but he's kind of integration challenges. Kind of seamless program ability is the core theme here. What's your reaction? Thoughts on all this? >> No. >> Well, first off, this is my first definite create. I've been to other Siskel lives have not been too. Don't think great yet so so far, I'm enjoying this a lot. It's I like the tight niche, the community style of this of this event I'm sorry. Go back, >> Tio. Go live a little creations that are going on here. Very community already. Kind of be open source projects. Yeah, people talking to each other, a lot of hallway conversations. But it's a kind of a new kind of collaborative model that customers are now getting exposed to write. This is something >> new. I mean, it is. It's new, and I'm finding a lot times where a lot of customers and clients they've heard about it, but they don't know yet. So it's our job to actually get them to adopt to it and and also adapt to it as well. So it's almost like how we have our own like community here. For definite. It's almost how can we take that structure and show it to our clients >> and translation involved Kind of kind of taper down the excitement, maybe, or keeping up questions for you people watching that aren't here. A definite what's that? What's the vibe here? Like, what's some of the cools? Things you've seen and heard are something Well, the keynote was >> great either. Was amazing Kino how they actually showed how, especially with the Iraqi had when Mandy went while I was out there talking about from the small campus to the festival and to an actual >> there's a radio >> that was a great use of incredible, especially with like big Stadium and how John McDonough came out and showed about how there was a fight on the field with you. Yet no one saw it, but yet then, when they went through the actual demonstrate, the actual video were like, Oh, yeah, this's amazing how it's almost like it was like the minority report way. You're already >> exactly Dan. Yes, the data out there, >> all that data and they just machine learning A I just watching people, seeing what they're doing, kind of almost like predicting what they're going to do >> and every little bit, actually, a little bit. I agree with you. I thought they did a great job with that, Especially coming off the heels of Coachella and showing how they can enable Cisco enable developers for social folks to set up secure networks of different sizes and also be able to use in real time machine learning a eye to evaluate what's going on the offensive. And that was a very cool, real world example of what they showed. Leveraging machine learning, identifying. There's there's an issue here. There's an altercation. They surprised at a sports event, right? And deploying those. It has a lot security, many sports events, though I thought it was all that the security was just casually walking up to fight. That's another thing >> that you would slow >> down. But you don't know what >> you're right. >> And it is so many more etiquette rules now at events, whether it's, you know, hate crimes or just, you know, just violent language fights. Also, everyone sees those that write that events. But this actual now, surveillance tech out there. You know, you could tell the guys that how many beers he's had kicks in, You know, >> we're gonna have something where they can actually check out someone like Heat signature. They can't tell how >> much he's going to explode. Is the Red Sox going to blow the lead again? A. Having a good year? Well, you know, they wanted last year Yankee fans, so you would be off the charts now. Philly fans, a whole other story. I don't. Okay. My digress. You've >> got a breakout session. Sorry, John. A lightning session that's tomorrow Any time tomorrow. Tell us the title and what you're going to be talking about. >> Keisha, my title is orchestrate forty five percent. So >> we'LL just read the forty five percent correct Alright, Digging >> again tonight a little >> bit. I have a sly where we was actually Suzy. We actually did a presentation awhile back where she put up a slider, says where she talked about how fifty five percent of partners are creating APS and developing their own naps. So, way of liberty we saw that we were like, OK, what about the other forty five percent? So that's where that the idea came out too. Okay, let's I'll do a talk about how we orchestrate forty, forty five, forty five percent. So entails What I'm doing with that is that we actually have a platform called Consulate. Where there were that platform has the ability to integrate with multiple business processes. So we're connecting. We're integrating with connect allies with Iraqi doing eight about and so that I have it where that there'll be a trigger or Web hook from one my rocky cameras like emotion which will trigger which will create a ticket and connect allies so they can help out some help tasks service desk and then that which will also they get thrown into teams and click on the ticket and then also run commands and grab a snapshot from the camera. The right of the team's six teams >> fell by the Iraqi for a minute because we get a lot of hearing a lot of buzz about Muraki. It's not just wireless. It's not just what you might think it is, it seems to be connected tissue you meant. There's a great demo that added to she's showing around. They are with looking at network configuration. We're obviously to be connecting all of this together. What's your view on this? What's that? >> I for one, I love muraki. I run Rocky at home, so five the viol. Although the wireless is switching cameras and just that, it's it's one. Really. They have, like their own room platform that connects has all their devices connecting into the dashboard, and you could do so much with it that they're actually they're open up Now. The eyes, the web hooks this so much things that you can actually integrate with it. It's it's great, and it's the analytics that you get from it. >> And this is what you're talking about really about bringing these teams together through Webb Hooks for AP, eyes in through Morocco, the connected to direct and then allow the APS to be valuable, cross different groups >> very valuable, but then so that then you don't have it on. Engineer doesn't have have to touch different applications or devices. They get it all from one and from that one application, click and go to where you need to get got. >> So we're only on halfway through Day one of your first up that crate. But it sounds like you've already been exposed to so many things that I could see the wheels turning us without anticipating that you're going to be able to bring back to liberty. And that will really help drive. What you guys doing driving forward toward that customer engagement only, eh? Educate >> well, since it is, you know, it's like half day already on day one. There's still so much to see here. There's so much to see about Coyote. There's a bunch of workshops here about form Iraqi and the AP ice, which I want to join in and see what I can take out of that and bring it back. Um, you know, there's a bunch of stuff get on. So I want to gather all that and just be a sponge and then bring it back to liberty and say, Hey, this is what we can do. How can they fit into our business model? >> Awesome. Well, Tony, thank you so much for stopping by and talking with Jonah me on the program this afternoon. We appreciate it. Best of luck in your lightning session tomorrow as well. >> Thank you so much >> for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching us on the Cube. Live from Cisco. Definite great. Twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching. >> No.

>> Live from Mountain View, California. It's The Cube. Covering, DevNet Create 2019. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi welcome to The Cube. Lisa Martin with John Furrier. We are live, at Cisco DevNet Create 2019 in Mountain View at Computer History Museum. John this is the third DevNet Create, but DevNet started as this ground, small sort of grass roots out of Cisco Live, about five years ago now. You and I just came from the keynote, which I think is really awesome to highlight that it was kicked off by two, strong female leaders in technology, who will be on our program this week. I'd love to get your perspectives on what you saw and heard today, knowing the history of DevNet as you do. >> Yeah you mentioned strong leaders, Susie Wee has been promoted to Senior Vice President and CTO of DevNet and DevNet Create. Two communities and that's been a really an interesting ride because she's gotten real technical jobs but adds a good business acumen and saw the wave early on. I remember I met Susie Wee at I'd say almost seven years ago, in and around Palo Alto. She always had that energy, but she's super technical, great business mind. She saw the open source wave and cloud connecting. And then when she came to Cisco with DevNet, she took that open source kind of mojo, and took the developer communities, which were very centric, Cisco, plumbing, moving packets from point a to point b, configuring large scale networks to much more of a developer focus. And she's evolved that program and started DevNet create three years ago to bring in the cloud native, used to be called the hoodie crowd, you know the people who are coding in the cloud. Cloud first, and she she wanted to cross pollinate them together with DevNet. And the result of that experiment or that that kind of mechanism and community collaboration has changed the face of CisCo. >> Absolutely. >> You can see Chuck Robbins as the Ceo and others within Cisco, seeing that they're on this new wave and it's actually paying off dividens for them, it's changed their strategy, customers like it, the community has grown, the metrics are all kind of up in to the right, on terms of adoption. So, success from that experiment, their doubling down and their bringing real technology, real workshops, a real co-creation, a real community vibe and it's working. So again don't fix what's not broken. >> In terms of their community, one of the things that Susie mentioned this morning is that the DevNet community's now over 585 000 members strong. They talk about this, yes it's a conference but it's also, it's a strong community, it's hands on learning. It's code and the theme of the event: See it. Learn it. Code it. They did a great job only in the first hour of the keynote about actually showing some great examples and also how to your point, Cisco is evolving. Digitally, IT transformation and how they are really staying quite far ahead of their competition. >> It's interesting because you know, one of the things that we've been doing in theCUBE for 10 years, we seen a lot of trends come and go. This one we like a lot. We use the term builders creators, Andy Jassy used that term builders. That's what they talk about this new era of this renaissance of value creators. They're building stuff and with now Cloud Computing and with now AI and other things coming to the table, there's an unlimited tool set out there and platforms with and computing cloud cloud computing, you can now build things faster. So conceiving it, understanding and building it is critical. Now what's interesting about DevNet Create is that they're bringing in that again, that community vibe where, it's not just a bunch of hackathons and a bunch of rah rah, use our code and get developers locked into a platform. It's authentically and genuinely ripe, meaningful to the developers because they do it in a group setting. They do it with community. So the have, they do have hackathons, they've got creation tools, they've got different stations and they roll out the toys if you will. Meraki has things going on here, there's all this new technology. So Cisco's bringing the goods to the party. It's like I always say, when someone brings beer to the party, you know and we're going to have some good times. So they're bringing the technology and the tools in to the community without kind of jamming it down their throat. That creates a good vibe. That's cross-pollinating to the core Cisco with DevNet, and every year that DevNet's section within Cisco Live becomes the number one place everyone goes to because that's where the feedback is and the company's listening. And this is part of their fly wheel. So this is a game changer for Cisco because their culture was pretty much build networks, run them, lock'em down, highly secure. Everything's good but now the world's changed. They want programmability and this again, changes the culture of Cisco. So I think it's a great move and I love this, I love the vibe here and this event's popular because, there's engineers here. So you have people who are savvy with code, savvy with community and savvy with building and creating and being creators. So design thinking to hackathons to any workshop you can imagine. >> And there's engineers here to your point of all, and Susie's point to have all levels of all ages. And I'm always curious about the engineers and the folks who've been in an institution for a very long time and are very use to working in that traditional model. How do they get access to the right education tools, to start shifting their own mindset, because really, in this day and age, they don't have a choice. Whether they want to continue working at a company like a Cisco or any other company these days that has to be a tech company. So you see all levels of coding experience here. They provide education for that. You also see all levels of of the veterans, those in their early stages of their career. Those in their mid-careers. So a lot of collaboration in this community. >> And the CEO Chuck Robbins points out and always kind of gives Susie Wee call outs, because even though developer.cisco.com is the destination that you can go to learn. Go to developer.cisco.com to get kind of the goods. That's from Cisco's perspective. But what Susie and Chuck have recognized is that, the real action is out in the organic community. So the co-creation, the learnings. This is where the canary and the coal mines are. This is where, companies are getting early feedback on products. This is where peers are starting to figure out what's right. So if companies listen to their community, not just provide the goods and have, some destination urls to go to, to get onboarded. The action is in the organic communities. That's where people are developing friendships. That's where discovery's happening. People are learning and that's where the action's at. So Cisco's actually listening. So this is an interesting change for Cisco. >> And it seems like, to your point on the listening, it's almost becoming the lifeblood of Cisco and really giving them this fuel and momentum >> Yeah >> To allow any type of industry. The SVP and CT, I think CTO of Meraki was saying, we don't build specific solutions for specific verticals. This is for all types of verticals, because every industry has to transform and become a tech company. But this community really seems like it's, I don't want to say a rebirth of Cisco but it almost feels somewhat something similar, but really that lifeblood of this transforming organization. >> Well one of the things that's not going to be on, on the financial analysis in the, when you look at the 10 k's and all the Wall Street guys are going to go sprint got the numbers and look at the, the financial analysis. Try to figure out where the stock's going to be. But if you at what's going on with Cisco. If they can continue to do what they're doing. If they convert their core developers in DevNet and allow this cross-pollination and with cloud computing. You're going to start to see product transformations happen faster. You're going to start to see business results that aren't reflected at any kind of performer or forecasted financial analysis. And this is going to put pressure on Cisco. Cisco is under a lot of pressure and this old school guard managers at Cisco, are like 'no the data center, we got to hold down' and so, if you don't, if Cisco doesn't cannabilize itself by bringing in the new, faster. That's the trick of the management. This is Chuck Robbin's hardest job as the CEO. It's to understand when to start cannabilizing pre-existing businesses like data center servers, UCS and have them change over to a scalable revenue model on the cloud side. So they're in a transition. I think they're in good shape. The wave they're on is positive, but the real upside to this is, if they can convert those network engineers into coders. They would have an army of awesome, talented people setting and building out the next generation data centers to cloud computing architecture and serp. Strategic strike if they can pull it off and they continue to do it. That's what we're going to be watching. >> Well we're about six weeks or so I think, before Cisco Live, which is down in San Diego. The Cube will be there. >> Yeah. >> What are you thinking, you gave a pretty good, kind of your perspectives and what you're thinking. What are some of things that you think we're going to hear and see and feel and learn from Cisco Live ? >> I think we'll hear some more of the same of what we're seeing and hearing when we start Cisco Live. I still think that Cisco's got some internal re-organizations to do to get on this wave. There's an article in Fortune magazine this week, talking about the rise and fall of Kleiner Perkins. And the thesis was there on the wrong way, missed two generations of investments. Cisco right now has to decide what wave they're going to be riding in to the future. That's Chuck Robbins' strategic imperative, and I think we're going to start to see more and more of the Cisco ship turning to get on the wave of cloud, cloud native, hybrid cloud and I think multi-cloud is probably the biggest opportunity that Cisco has and I think in bringing multi-cloud as a multiple network, multiple programmable network. That to me is a wave worth riding. The question is, when doe he time the revenue? When doe the whole ship just go full steam ahead? I think it's still going to be in transition, but we'll probably hear more, more DevNet. More DevNet Create, more programmable networks, more use of data. A lot of multi-cloud. >> Yeah and there's, this year there are three tech tracks. One on Enterprise Transformation which is, something that we'll talk about with our guests over the next two days. And then we've got, businesses have real-time data access. AI, machine learning, infrastructures that are programmable. Now how are, what are the tools and the trends, that enterprises are using to generate business insights that actually drive outcomes. >> Yeah so I think that all these tracks kind of point to big high level pillar trends that I think Cisco has to really nail and I think, they have clear sight for this. They just got to put the wheels on the bus and get the bus rolling. And that is three areas. Application modernization. So renaissance and application development. So you're seeing a new kind of app developer emerging. We hear about that all the time. You know these guys want infrastructure's code. Those app developers are going to be coming in to the enterprise in a large scale, and they can either be hybrid and multi-cloud orient. So application modernization. A renaissance in applications. Cisco has to be on that and they got AppDynamics for that and a variety of other cool things. Hybrid and multi-cloud, absolutely is going to be the architecture for enterprises and third area is security. Those are the things I think, if Cisco could nail those three things. They would be well positioned. And they got to bring the tech to the table and their product leadership. So that to me I think that's, I think we're going to see a lot of that at Cisco Live and that's I think the core plan. >> Well we'll be listening for that over the course of the next two days. John and I are fortunate to be here for today and tomorrow with a spectrum of guests, from Cisco folks, DevNet folks, partners, users of the technology and members of, active members of the DevNet community. So John looking forward to being here the next two days. >> It's been great. >> Sick around >> John and I are going to be right back from Cisco DevNet Create 2019 with our first guest. (soft upbeat music)

>> Live from Mountain View, California It's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage, day one at CISCO DEVNET CREATE 2019, I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier, we are at The Computer History Museum at Mountain View. We're pleased to welcome to theCUBE Ash Seddeek, strategic business consultant and story telling coach. >> Yes. >> This is an interesting combination, story telling coach with a bunch of developers. So first of all, talk to us about what it is that you, who do you help learn how to tell stories and then what your work is with Cisco. >> Fantastic. So, primarily at Cisco, I work with a lot of leaders in a coaching environment where we are looking at what they are trying to achieve with the organization and how they can articulate that message in an energetic and inspiring way. And we find stories are the best way to engage the audience. I'm working with one leader, he keeps telling me, the last talk he gave, the one thing people remember is the story. So, everyone is sort of realizing that if I want to tell them something about how we're transitioning from one technology platform to another, if I can find a metaphor, an analogy, a story, I have much better luck connecting with them and giving them something that they can remember. >> Is this like a personal story that they need to share and kind of open up some some vulnerability? Or just some other metaphor that everybody would understand? >> Yes, we actually sometimes use one or the other. Like in one case, we're using the car racing metaphor to talk about how teams come together to create amazing results. So then in that case, it's not about just the driver of that car or the team at the pit changing the tires and how fast they do that, but how they collectively then, have that success at the end of the race. Or, maybe to your point, maybe it's a personal story that then shows them, hey, I went through a lot of challenges and I know as engineers, you're going through a lot of challenges, and I can see us getting past it. So we also try to tap into what they've been able to achieve in the past. So then he can actually call on their memory, we've been able to produce these products for Cisco. Now, the customer expectations are changing and we need to get them to the market sooner, therefore, we need to figure ways where we can build some high preforming teams and get these products to the market much sooner. >> You know Ash, since hearing about your story telling here on theCUBE, as we do a lot of story telling, is that in the tech world, designed thinking has been a big part of the discipline around building products. >> Yes. >> How has some of the things that you're bringing to this kind of design story telling, >> Yes. >> Kind of ethos and thinking, >> Yes. >> Into the story telling creation process, not just, like hey I created this thing, now let's go bolt a story onto it. Is there an integration point inside the construction of the creative process, >> Yes. >> That might feed that. Can you take us through your state of the art thinking around this? >> Absolutely. It's actually, it was very comforting to find that the very first step in designed thinking is empathize, which essentially means, you have a particular target audience that you're trying to serve with a particular solution. We actually use the word hero to think about that audience and then we basically say, if she's a mom walking into the hospital lobby with her baby, what is the experience for that mother? Can we really empathize? Can we find out what the story is? What's been happening at home? The way she's going into the hospital, now she's driving into the lobby, how is she being received in that lobby, in the service level. And then we basically describe the story again of where things are today, which we can call experience number one. And then we basically talk to them about how can we envision a beautiful, delightful, experience for that mom? That becomes experience number two, and we use these stories between one and two to really energize us, to really help people understand we need to come up with a much better solution. >> I want to get your thoughts on Steve Jobs always said story telling was critical. It was his mantra before he passed away. I had a chance to interview John Chambers at his house recently. >> Yes. >> He's got a new book coming out and he's always been about trends and being on the right wave, so between the two, you had one product leader with Steve Jobs, you have a trend seer with John Chambers. How much of the DNA of the person you are coaching, that their natural talent shapes how you engage with how they could be a better story teller? >> Yeah, what I'm finding a lot, especially also with technical leaders, a lot of the time they are very sort of reserved. They sort of walk in the building a all of a sudden have this sort of character where I am not as, you know, charging ahead as I should be and a lot of the time I basically say, hey, can we get this voice to have a little bit of character? Can we get some vocal variety in here? Can we actually tell a story? Can you actually get up, stand up, and open up and really you know, tell us something about who you are and why you want to do this project to lead this team forward. So to your point, I really help them find out that they're actually like any other average citizen, they have so much energy and power within them, they just come into the corporate office and think, oh, I need to have a corporate character, then I come back and say, you know what, I actually need you, I need John to be here, in person, with all the stories that you can tell. And I tell them, go back into your old child and let's figure out some of those stories so that when you're talking about those stories, you remember the excitement, you remember the people that were there. And then all of a sudden, there's a bit of life in them, you know, so that's sort of, what I help them discover is that actually they have these stories. And they are engaging, they are inspiring, if they actually let them come out. >> I imagine that's got to be easier with some guys and girls than others. Some of those who really, maybe don't like public speaking or having to explain something that can be quite (inaudible) to certain audiences. >> Yes. >> What are some of the things that you've learned about working with some of these technologists that have helped kind of refine your methodology for cracking that surface and unleashing this energy and this sort of, natural passion. >> Yes. >> That's hidden inside. >> Absolutely and you know what's happening here at Cisco, especially at Cisco, where you see technology being used to do a lot of communication, a lot of them are realizing, if I don't articulate my message, I'm not going to get the funding. I'm not going to get the best resources. So they realize that communication became part of how do I influence up and make sure that my stakeholders understand that we have a critical project, so there is part of it where they know that there is a lot on the line if they don't speak up. And then they come to someone like me and say, Ash, how can we do this? So we then talk through what are you trying to accomplish with this team? What's that vision and how can we build it, a case for change and that becomes the thing that energizes them first and then we energize their teams and we think about, how do you take this message to executives that can give you the funding that you're looking for. >> So you talked about, before we went live, this program at Cisco, this sort of shark tank-like program, >> Yes. >> Where you're working with very technical men and women. >> Exactly, yeah. >> Who might have a brilliant idea, but in terms of articulating that to be able to get, like you said for, get funding or sponsorship for programs, Can you give us, maybe, one of your favorite examples of a, when you started with experience one or phase one, where it took you about a half an hour to figure out, that's the goal. To getting to the ah, there's the story. >> Yes, that's a good question. >> Tell us something that really sticks with you. >> YGreat question, so the program is called Hack It IT and it's an incubator program, as I mentioned. And one example, a team in China actually, was working on the idea of how do we reduce the number of customers that could be thinking about walking away from Cisco? So the technical term for that is customer churn. So I got on the phone with them, and of course, there are some challenges when it comes to speaking English by a lot of our Chinese colleagues. But then I listened in and I paid attention and then I started asking them, what got you interested in this idea? But we started to really kind of break down the fact that they have figured out that there is a way to listen into the data within Cisco and figure out that once they actually identify certain signals, they can help the sales teams realize they need to go talk to John, because John, if he doesn't have someone talking to him very soon, he or she might actually shift and go to another company, and then I said, well, what percentage do you think that churn is right now? And we found out that maybe like about 7% and with the technology they are building, we could bring it down to three 3%. I was like ding, ding, ding, ding! Earnings per share, number of customers, dollars per quarter, it was just an amazing opportunity and once they came out and communicated clearly, it was the winning idea at the end of the day. >> So you're helping take these technical folks, start to understand the business impact, >> Absolutely, yeah. >> And communicate-- >> And how big it is. >> Right. >> And how big it is. >> That can be pretty transformative for I think anybody in any field, right? >> And I remember on the call, I said, guys did we take a look at the industry averages on the churn? You know, what's the situation at Juniper? What's the situation at HPE? How does Cisco compare? How can we make sure that Cisco is much better off? Phenomenal opportunity for Cisco to listen in and catch things before they happen. >> What would be your advice to folks watching around? How to be a better story teller? Because you can really reel people in, get their attention and then deliver the pay load, whether it's venture funding, >> Yes. >> Or getting a project funded inside a corporation. There's always people interested in how they could be better story tellers, what's your playbook? >> Absolutely. So, the reason I talk about what I do is, I help people become chief excitement officers, which means we need to find the excitement, once we find the excitement, it's like finding gold in a very, very tough mountain and once we find the gold, then we can extract it out and then we can showcase it, right? So I think a lot of the time we're having difficulty finding out where the gold is. And that's one of the things that I help them with, but if they sit with their teams and really brainstorm what opportunities do we have? What are the sizes? How can we get some of these ideas out? Then all of a sudden that idea, that gold starts to show up and they are much more equipped to talk about it. And I have on the executivegreatness.com/storytelling, there is a nice cheat sheet that people can download and use to start really crafting these stories by first using a template in the beginning and then once they do it once, twice, three times it gets easier and better and if they can build a culture around story telling, it makes life so much easier. >> So you've got the, I think you mentioned it, but I want to make sure our viewers heard it. The executive greatness institute is something that you've created. >> Yes. >> And that people could go to that and find that template that you were just mentioning. >> Exactly, so executivegreatness.com/storytelling and they can download that template, it should be a very easy fill-in process in the beginning and it's a fantastic experience to really get that visual story. >> Find that gold, make some fine jewelry make some bars. >> Yes. Its amazing, there's so much potential because-- >> So this must be for anybody, and sorry to interrupt, in any industry. >> Absolutely yes. >> Anybody who can learn to find a way to connect with whomever, whatever, but it sounds like a lot of, kind of, horizontal benefits for anybody. >> Absolutely. >> And any level of their career. >> Totally because what we're finding is the clarity of the message once people get it, then you can actually ask them to do things for you or with you, but until then, there's a huge divide. People sit in these, in all hands meetings, the executive speaks, he or she speaks, they're not really catching on, you know, it's not so clear. >> It's about connecting. >> It's about connecting and clarity is the passage and story becomes the fantastic bridge. >> Yeah. >> To really do that connection. >> And really making it about being part of the same story, >> Yes, exactly. >> That connection creates more retention, success, one proposal versus the other. >> Exactly. >> Could be a swing, the swing could be the story. >> Yes, exactly, 'cause what, when we're working with these teams, we found out that if they can't communicate it, we could be losing out on a multi billion dollar idea. >> You know one thing I want to hear your thoughts on while your here because, >> Sure. >> It's as if I feel like I'm in a counseling session 'cause all we have to try to do is figure out how to tell our story better and our customers who come on theCUBE, they have social media channels, they have more channels. >> Yes. >> The story is broken down into little highlights and small video clips, so companies are challenged, not just individuals, to have a brand. >> Exactly. >> In social media. >> Absolutely. >> How do you take the gold, that excitement, and break it up, >> Yes, into a branding story-- >> Share the story in all channels possible. >> Absolutely. >> Do you have any opinion on that, or? >> It's a lot of tough work, but to your point, we need to find what that brand story is and make sure that everybody's actually clear on it 'cause a lot of times to your point, when you bring them together, each one has a different story. >> Absolutely. >> You know, so I think part of it is to really come together and say, let's get the story, let's honor it, by then, spreading it across the organization, >> And in a consistent way. >> And then we use it on the website, we use it in our marketing and our sales conversations. And if you started with that story with customers, you have something that's a whole lot more engaging, >> Get that story out there in a digital footprint. >> Exactly, yeah, exactly. >> Awesome. >> And I wonder if even what you're talking about in terms of you're right, it's about connection, is even more important as the world gets more and more and more connective with devices, and we get so focused on talking to a device, we've got to kind of come back to your sort of, bringing people back to the basic communication. >> With the human connection, so yeah. >> Exactly, which is, thankfully still needed and to your point, I think, what you were able to show your customers is a tremendous business impact, >> Yes. >> That this connection, this basic human connection in story telling can make. >> Absolutely. And the fact that you are really talking about human beings at the end, those experiences at the very end are touching somebody and we need to get excited, we basically, one of the executives from GE basically said, we need people who can go to the future and then get so excited and then come back, kind of keep that excitement on their face and walk around the organization, keep telling them, you know, when we get to Yosemite, you're going to see these waterfalls, the fresh air is amazing, I've been there, I saw it. I can't wait to get you guys there. And that's what they do on a daily basis, they're just walking around with that bug inside of them, they can see what it's like, and they can't wait to get everybody there. >> This is also somebody that can really breed and foster cultural transformation within a GE, an organization that has been around and has so many moving parts. >> Yes. >> Cultural transformation is essential for any company to transform digitally and that's a hard thing to do. >> Yeah, exactly. >> But it sounds like if, you know, you can, I like-- >> It's a big part of it. >> I like chief excitement officer, I think my dog is my chief excitement officer. But being able to maintain that and sustain it from a cultural transformation perspective is huge. >> Absolutely, 'cause all the digital transformation efforts are about that vision of the future, whether it's healthcare, to your point, or automotive industry or any other industry. It's about what kind of experience, much better experience are we going to create? >> Ash, great talking with you, exciting topic. >> Yes. >> Thank you for giving some time to John and me today at DevNet. >> Absolutely, thank you so much. >> We appreciate it. >> Thank, John, thank you so much. For John Furrier, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live at Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (outro music)

>> Live from Mountain View, California, it's the Cube! Covering Devnet Create 2019. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage, day one, Cisco Devnet Create 2019 at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. Lisa Martin with John Furrier, pleased to welcome to the Cube for the first time, Mathieu Gerard, the co-founder and CTO of Mapwize. Mathieu, it's lovely to have you on the program. >> Thank you. >> So Mapwize and Cisco are partners, but first, give our audience an idea of Mapwize. What you are, what you deliver, where you're located. >> Yeah, Mapwize is a startup company, we are based in France. And so we want to bring digital services inside buildings. We feel that a lot of our life has been digitalized, but that there are still a lot of services that can be brought inside those buildings. And one of the key elements, when you speak about digital services in buildings, is to have a map. A map where you can show all the different details about the buildings, the live data that is generating from all the sensors that's in the building. That's where the partnership with Cisco actually comes in to bring all those infrastructure sensors that you get, bring that to be displayed on the map as well and bring services to the user. >> So one of the hot announcements is the Wi-Fi 6. I'm jazzed about. It was 802.11 something A or B, I forget what it was. But you're now calling it Wi-Fi 6, thank God. Although even numbers, I'm skeptical of that. You know, odds tend to be better, bug-free, going back to our old days as you know. But Wi-Fi 6 changes the game at many levels. What are some of the things that will help you guys? Because we've all been in the buildings where, concrete, bounces RF, you can't get through certain things, we've all been in stadiums where it's kind of like a nightmare with bandwidth. Wi-Fi's like, you know, part of Maslow's hierarchy of needs now. We want our Wi-Fi. Businesses want Wi-Fi, so new things are happening. What's your take on Wi-Fi 6? >> So our take is that we really want to bring all those services. Of course bandwidth is something, but for us it's not necessarilly the critical part. For us it's really the kind of data that you can get from the Wi-Fi. Making sure that all the IOT devices can be deployed in more and more of those buildings. Everybody now wants to know if a meeting room is available or not. So what's the best way of doing that, and just having a small sensor that detects presence, and can be broadcasted back to the cloud and then displayed on the map. So there are so many sensors, that's one of them. But in terms of pollution of temperature, if you have those in the building, can bring new services around all those mapping. >> So bandwidth is not an issue, obviously this is like gig ethernet now, just helps with the signaling. What about range and coverage area, antenna chains? These are the kind of things we're hearing about, some of the benefits. Does that help you guys at all? Does that help the maps and get more range? >> Yeah, and at the same time the challenge we are facing when we look at the Wi-Fi is to be able to use it to locate people and to know where I am so that I can be provided services around me. And so that usually came with a need for more density of access points because the more density you have the better you can access the location of a user. And so what we see is a lot of evolution in the Wi-Fi in the kind of capabilities that they have in positioning people. So we hope to see that as well in Wi-Fi 6. >> What's your vision on location services inside an enterprise? Because we saw that movie play out on the consumer side with mobile, iPhones and Androids now everywhere. We've all seen it, we know when art was showing up, all the things that were happening on the maps, map mashups back in the old web 2.0 days. What's the new sets of things that will come out that you see? What's your vision? >> What we see is that, as you were mentioning, mapping and wave finding is something we are using everyday. And nobody would even imagine how it was back in the time when we had paper maps. And so we believe that that is also coming into all the office and industry environments. For example the possibility of seeing live, what's available, what's going on in my building, what's available as services where are the people that I need to interact with, where are the assets I need to actually go grab? That's something that today, seems like complicated to do, and I'm pretty convinced that in a few years from now, it's going to be natural, like waze is natural everyday for everybody. >> And this is the opportunity for Mapwize and with Cisco as well, to convert existing structures into these smart buildings. Are you seeing that as well as with the development of new buildings that are kind of built natively smart? >> Yeah, of course the new buildings are built more smart. And with new infrastructure, that allows a lot more. But the new buildings are still a very small percentage of the buildings that are out there. And so the great thing is that all the infrastructure that already exists is already capable of a lot. And so even with the updates that are being done there, there is a lot of data that today are totally not used, that we believe still can bring a lot of new services and a lot of potential. >> Is there any industries in particular where you and Cisco are working together where this is a really, they're right for this type of transformation. I can think of hospitals as one thing that comes to mind with being able to identify where everything is, censor services. Especially in life and death situations. >> Yeah, so what we see is that everybody that works in a hospital has the same reaction. It's like, where is everything? It's the kind of campuses where it's really easy to get lost. And so, whenever you get there, you need to get to your appointment, and if you don't find it, what're you going to do is to ask the medical staff. So you ask people that are actually saving life, how to get to your next appointment, which we feel is kind of a waste. >> Huge efficiencies. Not just asset tracking, which is low-hanging fruit. IOT devices in terms of instrumentation, but just supply chain services. It's a tsunami of new things. Limited by a lot of old school, either technical limitations on connectivity at the edge or just software. >> You know that in health care, there is a lot of time where a surgery room is ready with all the surgeons and the staff and the patient is not there because the person who is supposed to go get him in his room and bring to the surgery is actually late. And so we think that that's such a waste of time and money. >> Absolutely. >> Could be much better utilized. >> You could bring surge pricing in to the surgery room. (laughing) We're backed up, or hey I got low pricing, I got a price line ... But all joking aside, this is really important. This is like real value. High priced resources, idle in a hospital. There's probably a zillion examples of those. Okay, what's the low-hanging fruit that you guys see? When you start rolling out Mapwize. Is it just getting a physical footprint of it? Is it just a graphic rendering? Is the mashup piece? Is it visualization? What are some of the key things that you guys are doing, or have done to remove the blockers for adoption and create more movement towards that value? >> So what we see is really the first step is bring some wave finding, helping people navigate around the buildings. And so basically taking the old stock of technical floor plans that everybody has, that usually just a few architects use in a company. And being able to drag and drop that into a web platform. And from one day to another, making it available to a hundred percent of the people that actually live in that building on a daily basis. So that's really the first step we see. And then together with Cisco, being able to bring the location of the users. So that I have the same experience outside of the GPS as I have inside the building with the Wi-Fi infrastructure. >> It'd be great to know too, there's a lot of people streaming video around one access point. Might want to add another one. These kinds of things just are natural ideas that people would do. >> Yeah and where the bandwidth is the best, where the noise is the lowest, where potentially is the temperature higher, lower. Today in the flex office, people can choose to sit wherever they want. So what are the key reasons to choose one spot or the other? And I think there are a lot more value that we can bring to those as occupants. >> So you have here at Devnet Create 2019, you have a breakout, or had today a breakout and a workshop. Tell us about the workshop first in terms of the title, the conversations and some of the interesting conversations that you had with some of the participants. >> The workshop was about how to bring the link between the map and the more key infrastructure that you have. So potentially, even before anyone connects to a Wi-Fi, we're actually already showing him usually a portal, a captive portal where he can look in. And how we can add in that captive portal, already services. Like showing him, where is, on a map, how to get to any destination, potentially services that are around him. So that was the goal of the workshop. And it was great because everybody was saying directly in his industry. I had somebody from a university say this is exactly what we need as well for our campus. So I think it's something we can bring to much more industries. >> There's much more of a horizontal opportunity like you said, across industries. And you also had a breakout session. What did that dive into? >> The breakout session was specifically around location analytics. So it's completely different world, but it's about them using the location of the crow of every single device in the building and see how people move. Where do they go. And to understand the behavior of the people that are there. Just to give you an example, if you look at an event like this one, maybe the organizers would like to understand how much time people spend looking at the talk, looking at the workshop, getting around. So basically using all the data that's collected by the Wi-Fi, we can get a lot of analytics and numbers to better assess if the spaces are well organized. >> Making sure people are at their desks doing their job. (laughing) >> Oh no, no. No big brother. >> That's potentially the downside around it. It's something we need to be careful about. >> Innovation versus creepiness. It's always a trade off, privacy. >> It is a trade off and I think we need to be aware of when we allow it. When there is somebody working alone in a building, you actually do want to know where he is, because it's good for his safety. >> It's all over. We all have privacy problems. The GPS knows everything I'm doing here. Get over it, people. >> I think it's good to know which cases and to have opt-in. Like sometimes I want people to know where I am exactly, because that can actually help me. And I've other cases where I do not want it. So I think it's important that any developer who is building application with that data, is aware of that privacy issue and can know when to anonymize data, when not. >> Great stuff. >> Mathieu, thank you so much for joining John and me talking about Mapwize, what you're doing with Cisco. Really, really interesting technology. Maybe next year at Devnet Create you can tell us all of the analytic from this year. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> All right, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, live on the Cube from Cisco Devnet Create 2019. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to You by Cisco >> Welcome back to the Cube. Elisa Martin with Set Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen at the Computer History Museum, but here all day, talking with some really great innovative folks excited to welcome to the Cube. Marty Jane, senior director of this Cisco Global Partnership and Video. Marty, It's great to have you here. >> Thank you. Good to be here. >> So I always love talking about partnerships Where what Day One of Dev. Net. Tomorrow's day to. There's been a lot of a lot of community spirit is here, so I just kind of in the spirit of partnerships, lot of collaboration that community is is really strong. Uh, before we get into kind of the details of this Cisco in video partnership first kind of thing, I wonder is all right. This is the developer community. Why the developer community within video? >> That's a great question. So if you think about way, make GP use, which is a piece of silicon graphics processing unit, and it is really only a piece of silicon until a developer comes along and develops a cool app on it. So if you think about how we go to market our large conferences called GTC, it's really developer. Focus. We have a little over a million developers in our ecosystem, and I find it very synergistic with Cisco. If you think about Suzy, we's vision. I think it's the same idea. You look at over half a million developers in their ecosystem and they want to develop collapse, and that's how your platform becomes relevant. So if you think of all the modern innovation that's coming from developers, so these are the folks that we should be talking to on a daily basis. I see a lot of commonality, a lot of synergies. In fact, we had Sisko definite come over to our conference GTC, and they they appeal to our developers. And now we're here talking to their developers and also developing some joint platforms which the the folks can use for. Like I said, the more modern *** with all the new data that's coming, whether the coyote with a machine learning automotive, smart cities, you name it, we need to be able to provide the platform to the developers >> and a number of those topics came up today, even during the keynote, Smart cities being able to utilize and accelerate work leads with a I and machine learning. They gave some great examples during the keynote of how developers can build networks. They give this cool example of I think it right off the hills of Coachella of designing a secure network for an indoor concert, designing it for an outdoor festival, Coachella and then designing it for a massive stadium like a big football game like the Super Bowl, for example. And they showed it that higher end. They showed how they're using machine, learning to zoom in on. For example, they had this little red box and you see people and what's actually in there than the machines detected was a fight and in real time, analysing this data and thence, dispatching the appropriate security to come and obviously probably take the drinks out of their hands first. But it was a really interesting, great real world example. So you guys have been partners a long time. Our you've been actually working at various companies with Cisco for a long time, but I think of Cisco and video coming together. How are you great? Something to accelerate these? Aye. Aye. And machine weren't were machine learning workloads that we're starting to see in every industry. >> You bet. Great question. So let me first comment on what you said about smart cities. I like to think of it as smart and safe cities. So actually, the first set of application will be around public safety. What the example you were giving his spot on? If you have large crowds gathering, it makes sense for us to be able to look at those clouds. Crowds? We call it intelligent video analytics or idea. In fact, we have a platform here. The Sisko i R eleven o one with a GPU added to it. So now I can wash the crowds. And if there's a fight breaking out or somebody's carrying in a weapon, you want to know somebody walks in carrying a backpack and drops it and moves on. You want to know one? Inform somebody. So what is happening is way of these millions and millions of bites of video data, >> and >> that data is not being really used today. So what we're doing is saying you know what? Let's find those pieces of intelligence and the video data and do something with it. And public safety is absolutely the highest priority. So smartest, safe city makes a lot of sense. So what we're doing is we're going to market with partners at Cisco. So what we're doing is we're saying Okay, let's design these GPS into the servers, which are connected to cameras and think about how many cameras are deployed today, probably a billion. And a lot of the video data can now be used for public safety purposes, and we basically go out and talk to large companies. We talked to governments. We talked to cities along with Sisko to go even open their eyes to what is possible today. >> Right? Because of that data is dark for so long, they don't know what they don't know. >> While most cases, what happens is you record four days of video and until something happens, nobody goes back and takes a look at it. But now we have the ability to look at the real time and cities and government's desire that very much so, >> sir example, that's such a relevant topic. I mean, they know. There's also the issue of privacy. But to your point about not just a smart city but a smart, safe city. I like that. I think it's absolutely imperative. How do you have this conversations with cities with governments about All right, this is what we want. Do we want to actually apply machine learning? So the machines are taught What that line is with privacy with those boundaries are so that a person, I'd say a lay person not in technology. Maybe is a city government official who doesn't understand the technology or need Teo will go. I get it. >> Yes. So our conversations are really about what we call you cases. So think of enterprise. A good use case would be. In fact, we work with Cisco on developing use case. You know, you always badge in into an enterprise. You have your badge, you walk in. But you also have some cases. People follow you, following you in what stops you from following me into a building. And usually people are too polite to say no, you can walk in, but we've >> all had the video training or read the manual. We know we're not >> we're not supposed to bite, but >> then you're like, I >> don't just cultural, exactly. We just can't you know that. So now we have the ability. So we trained a in a network to say, Look, if Marty's badging in, only he's allowed to walk in. And if there's a second person walks in, I want to take put Little Red Square on that face and inform security that we have had more than one person walking. So these are some of the ways. So we talk about use cases. This is one use case crowd behavior. Analytics is another use case. You know, people were walking in the backpack, dropping it. Other use case would be something like Bar to Bart loses millions of dollars year because people jumped the turnstiles and Bart didn't really have a good way of of monitoring, measuring the losses until we put a camera and captured the number of people that were jumping. The turnstiles are going in through the handicap access, okay? They were losing ten times the dollar value of what we had thought. Wow. So this is how we start the conversation with use cases, you know? And what would you like to do? Being able to count the number of cars in intersection begin with counter number of pedestrians, so you could do traffic management better. That's the language we would use with cities and governments. And then we go deeper as you go through the implementation process. >> Well, that makes perfect sense going in the use case route, because you can clearly see in that example that you mentioned with Bart a massive business outcome and an opportunity to regain a tremendous amount of resource is that they could redeploy for whether it it's new trains, new trucks, etcetera than them, not realizing we're losing how much money. I think anybody when you could put the useless in that context of this is what you can expect as an outcome. They get it >> Absolutely. That's the really the only way to start the conversation than starting from bits and bytes. And this is the This is usually the case across industries. If you think about retail, for example, you know you go to a safe way to start talking about GPS and servers. That's not the great way to start, but they do have issues with shoplifting, for example. So how do you know a person is walking in, you know, through the checkout. And they have one item. Then there's a small item right here and they walk out with this. How do you monitor that? So now you can do that with the right kind of cameras that can capture. Look there Two items, not one. How do you know where shop are stopping Which aisle is the most popular? I'Ll How do you know that? Well, now you can have cameras would say, Look, we have red zones and Green Zone so you could do those kinds of things with modern ways of doing. I >> so interesting because it's so. I mean, the examples that you gave are so disparate, but yet they make so much sense was how how you're describing it rather than going into, you know, a grocery store in talking about GPS, which they might fall over with their eyes. Doing this >> right. >> You're actually putting in the context of a real world problem they've been experiencing since the beginning of time. Don't you understand? Only goodness and this is how we can use technology. It's the safe way becomes a technology company. They don't know it. What actually started packing their bottom line. >> That's right, And so even now, you know. So I have to take that and you extend that into How do you go to market? And it's something you wanted Teo Touch on. How do you go to market with Cisco's? How does ingredients is? Could do it together, right? So think of Cisco's sales teams who are talking to all these customers every day where their retailers, financial services, federal government, health care, you name it. So what we've done is we basically sort of taking all these industries and created the top three or four use cases we know are relevant to that industry, either for safety or for saving money's. For variety of their operational reason, we have narrowed it down to three or four five use cases and each of those target industries. So what we do now with Cisco teams that we would bring them into our facility or go to them and really talkto all those use cases and train them on Hey, look, this is what we do jointly, and that makes the conversation much easier. Then they will go and present to the customer and what's the customer gets an idea far this all possible. Now that starts a deeper level technology and server and GPU engagement. So this is one way we go up and talk to different customers. What's the school's >> second? About a bit. Marcus. Cisco is so enormous, they have a billion different. I'm slightly exaggerating products with but a lot of different technologies that form many different solutions. So I imagine your Cisco expertise over many years of working with Cisco's a partner for other companies. How do you once you get to that deeper level conversation, how do you bring this different groups within Cisco together? So that that solution conversation is one that really aligns to that use case and the customer doesn't get it? >> Yeah, that's a difficult question to answer. That's like, you know your work. It's just cause a large company. But I think I also think they're also very cells driven, and that's what drives the different groups to come together. In fact, some people called me the Connector because I've been working. Cisco's so long. I know people and definite I know people in sales. I know people in the server. BU, in fact, if you think about the The platform was talking about the i r eleven o one with the jets and GPU that came as a result. I was talking to the i o t bu result talking to Dev net our situation the definite he said. You know what? This is cool are gonna do this. Then we take that to the IOC Guys is Oh, this is cool. We can take that. Put it in this platform, and then I'm next. Actually, next week I'm talking to a sale. Seaman Cisco. They cover utilities. And this platform was profit for utilities. Even think about fire monitoring in a forest. How do you do, boy thousand? The people to just watch what happens. We can take a platform like that now and really deploy it in hundreds of places which could monitor fires or the starting off a fire. But yes, bringing them together. It is no easy task. It's fun >> where you are smiling. I like that. Marty the connector. Jane, thank you >> so much for >> joining me on the kid this afternoon. Fun conversation. I enjoyed it. >> Ofcourse. Thank you. Likewise. Thank >> you, Lisa Martin for the Cube. you're watching us live, Francisco Definite. Create twenty nineteen. This is the end of day one. Stick around, John. Failure on I will be back tomorrow to cover day too. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to You by Cisco >> Hi, Lisa Martin With the Cube. We're live at the Computer History Museum for Cisco. Definite Create twenty nineteen John for years my co host, and we're pleased to welcome back to the Cube. Mandy Whaley, senior director of developer experience for Definite Mandy. This event is bursting at the seams. This is the third definite create, but you've been involved for the last five years or so from the beginning, when this was really groundswell talk. Before we're going to talk about a history of Devon, tell our audience what definite is. What definite create is as well, >> Absolutely definite is Cisco's developer community so anywhere that Cisco has a P iis rst case anywhere that people can build on top of our platforms. Definite is the community that enables those developers. So we do. You know a lot of connecting of people within the community way also do a lot of developer enablement Sample code Documentation Blog's Learning Resource is in person workshops, online workshops. I lead our developer experienced team, which is our developer advocates who are you know being the voice of developer, helping the developers get inspired in buildings also are definite. Sandbox teams hosted labs. If you want to use some networking FBI's you may not have extra network playing around that you can program against an experiment. So we offer reserved hosted labs that anyone can use free by becoming a definite remember and then the other part is our our developer content and support. So really getting the information out there and supporting the developers so definite is our community that enables everyone to build on top of Cisco. >> And this community is now sorry, John. We're both very excited, Assistant Suzy was announcing this morning over five hundred eighty five thousand members strong and the energy and the excitement in the room this morning with the Kino people are jumping at the bid. When you guys talked about WiFi six, I loved the examples that you gave this community is it is engaged. That is one of >> the things that's really exciting. Teo, about working with the definite community is that I feel like the energy that we put in, we get back multiple fold from the community, right, and it's great to see people who started with us maybe five years ago who have, you know, made their first AP I call started down this path, and now they're building full applications and they're here sharing that information by presenting with the community and giving back and that excitement that engagement is really one of the funnest parts of my job. >> Man, you talk about the evolution of definite create definite, pretty good background on that. Tell the story. I know I've been there with you guys since the beginning of the Cube. I know little about, but I want you to tell the story because it was a genesis that came out of what you guys we're seeing in the definite community where Cloud was really becoming part of it. Tell the where the definite created portion came on. And what it means for the definite community and developers at large. >> Yes, absolutely. So I started working with Emmet before Devon. It had a name so before it was actually definite. That was five years ago and way started building the community. We have a developer event within Sisqo live. So we have the definite zone, and it's we offer a lot of our constant and classes and workshops. Their way started getting requests from that audience, saying WAY would like a smaller events with more ability, tohave, you know, deeper conversations more, one on one and just focused on the developer community. And this was when multi Cloud was really starting to become a big piece of the Cisco strategy. Are developers were trying to figure out howto work in that space. Cloud native was taking King off, and that was the first definite create on, which was three years ago. It was a very small venue in San Francisco, and it was our very closest and, you know, deepest engage set of members that came to that first year and then. But we had such great engagement. Some of that energy that you mentioned and everyone who helped build it towards the second year, which we had last year at the Computer History Museum, says same same than you. And what special, definite create. As we really try to get the two parts of our definite community together, the application developers and our infrastructure automation Dev ops teams right, and we try to bring them together. This one event where they can really exchange ideas, you know, get to be talking the same language. This morning we had conversations around WiFi six from the application Developer side Like what does that enable for the application developers and new things you could build? And then, you know, how is that also interesting? Teo, the networking site >> of any demos, are a big part of it. You got the hack a thon camp. Get the camp experience. You can create great tools, but the the events, not your classic event. It's not like that's Get the numbers up. Let's get tennis. Let's make some money. It's not about that vibe. This is a different vibe. It's more of let's make it intimate, somewhat structured, but disorganized enough to be collaborative. >> Yes, it's definitely collaborative, and it's definitely a community focused event over. I think over seventy five percent of the content this year came from the community, so they're here giving back and presenting their workshops. It's also very hands on. Hands on is actually kind of a core definite value. We, like Teo, always give people the ability Teo code something. Try something, build something So you mentioned can't create that is our it's >> it's We call it a build a thon because it's a little more structure >> than a free form hackathon. We start with some use cases. We make the technology available, and they actually started yesterday before the conference even began. Those teams started building solutions, and they'LL be presenting them on Thursday and then >> in the >> conference. We have hands on workshops in small groups with eight people, so you can really, you know, take the time to actually get in, run the code, do the work, ask questions right to the presenter on. And we really want that collaborative. You know, sharing ideas feels very intentional part of building this conference. >> So I'd love to ask you some probing questions around the future of where you see this going because you have the key ingredients are coming together. You mentioned them, so scaling this up it's going to be a challenge because you have definite. You have Definite Zone and Sisqo live, which is the Cisco proper. Then you kind of have this elite community as my words. I guess it's, you know, the best of the best, but it's really a cross section of unique profile of persona is the intention to have these guys then go back to their communities are within the communities. Is that the scale point? Because how do you run these intimate events right and not lose the spirit of the ethos. >> So that's something we're, you know, putting specific thought into because we do want to keep the spirit. We've actually heard that from some of our, you know, kind of core community members that they really want to keep that aspect. So couple of things that we are planning tto help with that one is you may have seen this morning we gave the definite Creator awards. So those air awards for people who contribute to the community and a lot of those are people who have come and learn skills, taken aback to their organizations and been able to scale that out to their organizations. That's something that we're really actively working with people to do and do that in a very organic and community lead way. Um, the other thing that we have been working with is a program called Definite Express. So this is actually where we take a small part of our definite content. We kind of package it up and make it available for anyone to run in their region. Jin so they can have it. You know, in a different country they can have some of the same feeling that we have here some of these same workshops we've had those in. It was about two hundred fifty of those events in forty nine countries. >> So wait, man kind of thing. Yes, it's a physical events. It's not just sass on site services. >> That's right. >> Portable portal >> event and they do workshops just like they are here way. Inject some of the fun, same fun kind of activities. And then we provide all the infrastructure. There are sandbox, >> you hologram in there. I mean, you're so popular you can't attend all of them. >> No, I cannot. >> But I love >> to see on Twitter you can look up definite express and see one's happening, you know, all over the world at the same time, which is really fun. >> And how did those folks that are doing these definite expressed events How are they able to collaborate with you guys provide feedback from what they're experiencing in the field to help create Maur no pun intended helped create more. Definitely more, exactly more opportunities, you know, and really help you guys with this larger event so that they feel like they were in this community. And five hundred eighty five thousand. There's only about four hundred here that can fit in Russian. What's that somebody else? It's like So one of the things >> we do is while we're here at definite create, we do live stream a lot of the content. So it was really fun today. When we finished the keynote, I heard from some people that told me I was in the keynote. I was watching and I started texting my friends. Hey, you got to get on the live stream And that's a great thing to hear from the community because you're giving away for this people to join in. We also have on definite our community chat room. It's on every page, chat with us definite. It gets you right into a room with the developer advocates on our team and other community members, and we see the community there, you know, answering each other's questions, giving us feedback, letting us know what they need to move ahead in their careers and their projects. So that community chat room is really key. >> Give some highlights on what change since just go live Barcelona. What? Some of the important notable successes and work areas that you guys are doing a definite and definite create. >> Right. So we, as we mentioned in the Kino, our community growth, we've reached five hundred eighty five thousand. So that registered Dove nut members, that is, it's great to see that growing. And then we also see those members you know, growing their engagement with them, not going deeper into the material, building, more content, taking it back to their organizations and things like that. Right now we are building up to Cisco Live Us, which is coming up in San Diego in June, will have our full definite zone there. So a lot of exciting activities that were planning for their We hope everybody can come and see us there, and then another thing is, could exchange. So could exchange. We actually announced it a definite create last year and launched it a little bit after definite create code exchanges the place for the community to share their projects so they can anything that is open source. They can share it by sending us there. Have link way curate that end Tio Francisco relevant sort of catalog. If you're looking for a sample to use DNA center and you want to see it in Python, you Khun, go search for exactly that. Get back some projects that the community have submitted. So we're excited to announce this week that we've reached over four hundred projects in code exchange of those curated, you know, projects that have gone to the process and been posted there. That was a really exciting milestone, looking back to create from LA >> So it's working. Yeah. So what's the vibe in? Certainly Cisco. I know Suzy has and Team have been kind of getting a lot of press and praise press externally, praise internally it Cisco, as the big battleship of Cisco, kind of gets on that cloud wave coming multi cloud hot area. >> It is so one of the things that is really exciting as we are seeing a p, I be available across our whole portfolio. So in every area that Cisco has products and up and down the stack at the device layer at the controller layer at the cloud layer. So that's very exciting from a definite perspective, because it gives us more for our community to work with more opportunity for developers. And that changes Ciscos very palpable. It's very exciting. And we're, you know, bringing the definite community into that as much as >> it's from creativity to we saw the demo for a fish about the virtual realities cable first peek in Barcelona. But here, amplifying that with with five six to you could just with virtual reality look at a devices. They see all the staff see with network coverage. Yeah, WeII to do work. >> Yeah, exactly. And >> me, that demo is a great you know, example of this applications meaning infrastructure message, which is really what definite create is about. We wrote an augmented reality application running on a mobile device, but you can check literally seeing the signal strength from all your access points on. So that's just a great example of those two things coming together. >> Speaking of coming together, one of the things that you touched on this a minute ago. But what in the keynote this morning, when I was looking at in the Mirror Rocky demo of the other things that you guys were doing and the evolution of Cisco. I just thought, What CART horse which ones, which was It has definite been really kind of fueling Cisco's evolution. Looking at all of the available, as you mentioned across the product portfolio has been around a long time. Is it is it fair to say that definite has kind of been a fuel for that? And Cisco's going Wow, we've got this phenomenal community were evolving because our customers are we need Teo. Yeah, I think it is. It is very much >> hand in hand. We worked really closely with our product teams and we worked hard to be that voice of the developer with our product teams and Cisco. And it's been a journey that started, you know, five years ago where we knew that the guys were going to come, we knew that there would be a prize across the portfolio and within definite. We really believed in that and are definite community believed in it. And you know, we've been building it very step wise and very intentionally since then. So it's really been a great partnership and a really exciting time to be it Cisco and being a part of that transition. >> Well, I just signed up to chat with you guys since you brought it up earlier. Developer dot cisco dot com That little chat with us on every page signing I signed with my get hub handles >> you can log in with. You're having >> your chair stealing the code and check it into the >> codex scene. >> We're gonna blow something for one. So many exciting has been great to watch. You guys, you got the Moroccan green jacket off. >> It's very Rocky demo today. >> Meraki has been a big part of definite success, and within the community's been the reaction's been very positive. It's not in the classic portfolio of collaboration. It's really going to a different What is muraki mean for the development? What? What has it done? What has enabled Why is it important? >> Yeah, so, um, a Rocky has been great because it's one. As Todd mentioned today, they really have this mission of simplifying their experience, and they've done that in there. You I and they've brought that to their developer experience as well, which is really exciting for me. Rocky is Cloud Managed Network Club managed WiFi, and then they have a very happy I'd driven approach where you can automate almost everything you could do through the eyes. And then there's additional services that you could get from Iraqi, like indoor location data and things like that. So it really opens up opportunities for both of our parts of our definite audience application developers who might be writing an indoor location based application or doing something with the cameras that we saw today on DH, then the infrastructure automation side who can very, very efficiently, you know, manage and deploy their networks. >> It's nice connective tissue for the developers kind of gives you best table two worlds, wireless on the front end, back and network connections. So it really becomes a big part than seems like >> it is. It is. And that's another reason why we were so excited about the new MURAKI developer hub that Todd adults today on Definite because it really is a place where we can show that connective aspect of it. I have all the code and use cases that really connects this to audience. >> We'LL talk will be very excited to know that some of your community members actually have Iraqi devices at their house. They way, they're running their cameras at their homes and everything's >> that's right. >> So being I think it's on the Web, one of the, if not the on ly conference community that brings together the APP developers, those girls and guys thie infrastructure, folks, What's one of your favorite stories that really shows thes two worlds coming together, understanding each other, communicating anything that really sticks out of the last few years for you? Gosh, there's >> many and a lot of them are just hallway conversations that I might stop by and hear people connecting and kind of learning about. You know what each person works on and learning to kind of speak the same language and get together. One story that I think really stands out as a big success is around a partner that we work with who does indoor location applications. And there's pure software company right. They write mobile applications that do indoor location, and but they they need a network underneath that, and so we have had a great coming together of some of our main Cisco loyal people who go out and stall the network's connecting with partners like that who come from the pier software side. We've written applications on DSO. That's that's a great one. And that is really something that we see replicating in many places. And I feel like some of the hallway conversations here are, you know, starting the next stories that happened like that. >> This is one of some of the best cause they're natural. Organic conversations are not scripted. It's not reading slides. Well, I wish we had more time, but we'll have to see you back at dusk alive. All right? What about six weeks or so? Yes, it's coming out coming, kid. And Oh, Mandy, congratulations on this success bursting at the seams. And we appreciate you taking some time to talk with John and me today. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Our pleasure for John, for your I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from Cisco. Definite. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching. >> Yeah,

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen Brought to you by Cisco >> Hey, welcome back to the cave, Lisa Martin with John Barrier. We're coming to you Live from the Computer System Museum at the third annual Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen Excited to be joined by Joycelyn Developer Advocate from Postman Joyce Welcome to the Q Thank you. So you are a developer advocate. But postman is a tool that helps the community learn about Cisco ap eyes Postman is a Cisco was a customer of yours but a little bit about your experience at definite cry Because you have an interesting story from last year, which was your first year of this event >> Exactly last year. We just happen to stop by. And as I was walking through this very room you hear all these workshops going on behind us My ears perked up cause I heard somebody say python in postman or two of most powerful tools And I was like, Hey, I >> work a postman >> So I like, stopped in to see and I slapped my team back immediately at the office there, really using postman to teach Cisco Technology here. >> That was surprising to you. And here you are now here a year later. Tell us some of the things that you're expecting to learn and hear and feel and see from twenty nineteen. Create. >> So this year I hear about all these people learning postman learning about tech through postman. So I'm actually giving to talks this afternoon The first talks talking about building the community because a lot of people use postman in the second talk is about using mock servers. Had a fake an AP I until you actually coded and deploy it. >> Take a minute to explain. Postman. Why is it so popular? Why Francisco jazzed about it? What are they using it for? How they bring that in take a minute to talk about what you guys do >> Well, several years ago, when postman started as a side project was primarily for developers and help developers do their day to day jobs. But we found a lot more People are interacting with technology or working at tech companies where they might not have the setup to initiate a request. AP I request, and so postman allows them tio on their desktop be able. Teo interact with the tech in a way that normally they wouldn't have the whole set up to do it. >> So So in terms of developers, what's is a freemium model? They do have a free hand leads >> premium. And I think within the last year we've scooch almost anything that used to be a paid feature down to free so you can try it out. And in fact, if you have a small business or a side project, it's it's free. >> And what's the talk track? You're gonna have to get to talks. One on community, one on serve servers. Monster. >> Yeah, So Mock service is something that I thought might be interesting to this crowd. But a lot of these people have are in charge of managing the infrastructure or supporting existing AP eyes or services that are out in the cloud. And so mock servers are a way that you can essentially mock an FBI for parallel development or to build a prototype put into >> you. And so this helps develop, get faster app up and running. And then what happens when they have to get rid of mock server and put a real server on there? They had built out the re p I. Is that what happens? >> Typically, they're spinning Oppa marks over first, and then they're building out their own servers. So, yeah, they would swap out the mock with their own. >> And what's the other talk on community? Just how did do a community open sores? What's the aspects of the community talk? >> It's kind of on >> odd topic for this kind of crowd, but a lot of people work for companies that are or work for teams where they're just trying to build, like, a sense of community or foster some sort of mission. And so just telling the Postman story and Postman was free for absolutely free for a super long time in growth has just been astronomical. >> You're six million developers on the planet working on that, but I can't say on the company's one hundred thirty million plus AP eyes. And that's all. Just since the company was established in twenty fourteen after this sort of side project that you talked about so pretty, >> pretty quick >> growth trajectory that you guys are on >> and a lot of it was word of mouth. I mean, until I came here last year and heard all the system people talking about how they're using postman. We did not know that. >> So how have how has Postman actually evolved your technology in the last year? Just since you stumbled upon? Wow, this we're actually really hot here. We are really facilitator of developers. This community that's now what five hundred eighty five thousand members strong Learn about Cisco AP eyes. I'd love to know how that has sort of catalyzed growth for postman. Well, back in the >> day, Postman started as developer first. So here's an individual developer. How can they work more effectively? But teams like Cisco you'll be lucky if you find a team of ten people these air hundreds and thousands of developers coming together to work together. So postman as a tool has shifted from focusing on on ly the developer to how do you support developers working in larger teams? >> So what? The community angle? Because one of the things that Lise and I were just talking about you she does a lot of women in tech interviews with Cube and we're building out these communities ourselves and in Silicon Valley, the old expression fake it till you make it. It's kind of a startup buzzword, but people try to fake community or by community. You really can't get away with that. In communities, communities are very fickle. A successful open source projects you've gotta contribute. You've gotta have presence. You've got to show your work to get you to the bad actors. It's >> pretty >> efficient. But things air new now in communities this modern era coming into slag, you got tools. How is community evolving? That's your perspective on this. >> That's an interesting question. I think the community you never wanted fake community absolutely agree, and something that Postman is kind of lagged on is the community's been huge, but we haven't really been involved. So around the world we have people giving workshops that we don't even know about, like around the world. And how can we support them and allow them to tell, teach things consistently and teach best practices? So I wouldn't say unfortunately, well or fortunately, we're not in the position where we have to encourage the growth, but rather just support the people that are already doing this. This >> is the pure ingredient Teo Community development, because you're enabling other people to be relevant with their communities. So you're not so much like just trying to be a community player. You're just your product enables community growth. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> You just gotta come feed >> postman as a tool. And then postman, the seeds >> of community. >> Yeah, we're healthy. >> So talk about some of the where you guys locate. How many people in your company? What's this? What numbers >> were headquartered in San Francisco. We have a huge engineering department in Bangalore where our founders air from. And I think just a few months ago, we started having distributed people. So now we're everywhere. I think we're about a hundred head count. Uh, fifty five percent of that is engineering. So where? I don't know where a >> start off. I mean, they were started hunting with number two hundred thousand companies using the technologies. We said over six million developers. How do you get a handle on to your point earlier supporting all of these groups that are out there enabling us Johnson enabling and fueling communities like Deb. Nanny? How do you start that with a one hundred person organization? >> Yeah. I'm so glad you're like, Wow, that doesn't seem like a huge organization because other people are like I thought you are way bigger than that. One thing is that we do listen to our community. And so if they're having a pain point way, try to aggregate all those voices and then come out with a cohesive road map because what might be the loudest voice for even a lot of voices might not be what's right for the tool. The other thing is, we're not open source company, but we have a ton of open source projects. So the community has again developed converters, integrations all these open source tools that for their specific workflow works for them. And actually, they're sharing with the community. >> How did you get into all this? How did you join the company? What attracted you and what's what story? >> Well, I'm in San Francisco, so I work for a tech company. I have a hodgepodge background, but I won't go into because it just sounds confusing. Some people call me the Wolverine at work. >> That's a nickname. >> Um, hopefully it's not because I'm so Harry, but because I've had many lives, so I I kind of bring a little bit of that, too. My developer advocate role, a little bit of product, A little bit of marketing, little bit of the business side. >> It's good versatility, lot of versatility. Yeah, let me ask a question. One of the things we've been covering is actually we love cloud nated. We've been covering cloud in the early days. Oh, wait. Oh, seven All the way through Love Cloud native We get that check enterprises Ha! You see Cisco using your stuff. Enterprise developers are hot right now. People are fast filling applications has got a cloud native flare to a definite create. It's also gotta integrate into the classic enterprise. What's the difference in your view and your experience, your observations between enterprise developers and then your classic You know, hard core cloud native developer >> I would say that's something that postman, as an organization is dealing with right now because we started developer first. Now we're finding Oh, it's a different person making these decisions. What tools should we use? Sometimes it's top down, but at the end of the day, it's always the developer that is going to support a top down decision. A developer that's going to find the utility out of certain tool. So we're shifting our focus. But not necessarily by that much. Because long as you focus developer first, it's still >> so enterprise. Kind of taking more of a classic cloud developer or native cloud native developer. You think that kind of profile you in your mind? >> Well, again, you have an enterprise developer. But what? Where's that enterprise developer going to be in two years? So we're not hanging our hat too much on Enterprise? Only now >> what do you want? The Ciscos measures of programming. The network. I mean, infrastructure is code. That's kind of a nice value proposition. Take the complexity away. What's your take on reaction toe that vision? >> I don't know what you're talking >> about. I don't know what part. >> What part of tell you are. >> Well, they're saying developers shouldn't have to configure hardware. You know, abstract the network capabilities out and make it code. So the developers just it just happens. >> Got it? Yeah, And if you think about how you Khun scale, can you scale linearly or exponentially? Enabling every developer or team to deploy their own code at their own pace with their own tools is something that allows you to scale exponentially. So things like mock servers that were talking about earlier. If I'm relying on somebody, that's my bottleneck. To spin this up with the normal workflow for the organization, that's a bottleneck. Spin up your own mock server. >> Find mock servers were great. Resource because remember the old days and mobile the emulators kind of had to have an emulator to kind of get going. Okay, that was, like five years, but similar model like, Hey, I don't need I can't build that out now. But I need to know what it's gonna look like so I can get this done. >> And that allows you to iterated at the fastest >> level at the local >> developer level. >> We've been covering the old days here in the Cube world. >> Throwback. Joyce, thanks so much for your time joining us on the cue program this morning. It a definite creed. Best of luck in your two sessions later on today. We look forward to seeing you next time. Great. Thank you. Nice to meet you for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching to keep live from Cisco Definite create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching