(Introductory music) >> Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Mobile World Congress (MWC) and also SiliconANGLEs news coverage. Welcome to SiliconANGLEs news update for MWC. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE and reporter with SiliconANGLE News Today. Google showcasing new updates for Android and wearables at MWC. Kind of going after the old Apple-like functionality. Google has announced some new updates for Android and wearables at MWC and Barcelona. The new features are aimed at enhancing user productivity, connectivity and overall enjoyment across various devices for Chromebooks and all their Android devices. This is their answer to be Apple-like. New features include updates to Google Keep, audio enhancements, instant pairing of Chromebooks, headphones, new emojis, smartphones, more wallet options, and greater accessibility options. These features designed to bridge the gap between different devices that people use together often such as watches and phones or laptops or headphones. Fast Pair, another feature which allows new Bluetooth headphones to be connected to a Chromebook with just one tap. If the headphones are already set up with Android phone, the Chromebook will automatically connect to them with no additional setup. And finally, Google Keep taking notes for you that app - very cool. New features include widgets for Android screens, making it easier for users to make to-do lists from their mobile devices and Smartwatches phones. So that's the big news there. And it's really about Apple-like functionality and they have added things to their meat, which is new backgrounds and then filters that's kind of a Zoom clone. So here you got Android, Google adding stuff to their wallet. They are really stepping up their game and they want to be more mobile in at a telecom conference like this. They can see them upping their game to try to compete with Apple. And that's the update from from Google, Android and Chromebook updates. Stay tuned for more coverage. Check out SiliconANGLE.com for our special report on Mobile World Congress and Barcelona. Got theCUBE team - Dave Vellante, Lisa Martin, the whole gang is there for four days of live coverage. Check that out on theCUBE.net (closing music)

(techno music) >> Live from Mountain View California, it's the Cube covering DEVNET CREATE 2019, brought to you by CISCO. >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin with John Furrier covering, day two covering I should say, CISCO DEVNET CREATE 2019, at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California. We're please to welcome Prashanth Shenoy, the VP of Product Marketing, Enterprise Networks and DEVNET at CISCO. Prashanth it's great to have you join John and me this afternoon. >> Great to be here. >> So, this event is growing year after year. John and I have been talking about this very strong sense of collaboration and community with the attendees that are here in person. One of the big things yesterday that Susie was talking about was this, What's coming in Wi-Fi? Talk to us about this next-gen Wi-Fi and how it's going to be so impactful to everyone. >> Yeah it's, it's a phenomenal technology inflection point this year, I feel. We can't believe it, but you know, when was the first Wi-Fi that got started? >> 2001. >> Pretty close, 1999. So this is the 20th Anniversary of Wi-Fi. It's come to be life, right? so it's now in its fourteenth. >> I'm off by two years. >> Right, so yeah, I know. (laughter) But, 802.11A was the first Wi-Fi technology, and the speeds were ... promised speeds were 54-megabits, okay? Ah, but the real speeds were, like, 6-mega or something, right? And now, this is the sixth generation of Wi-Fi, so we've come a long way and we take it for granted in our daily life. >> Absolutely, we do. >> I don't think I can think a day without having Wi-Fi. >> Everyone talks about Wi-Fi. The kids, What's the Wi-Fi password? (laughter) I change it all the time, kids, this ... parents, pro tip. Change the password. >> Yes. You got to listen. They'll call you, your kids will call you back. It's an important tip. >> Full-on security, yeah. >> But distance is been an issue, distance, and >> Yeah. >> Radio Frequency has certain >> Yeah propagation technique so, >> Yeah. >> Are you close to the router? That room doesn't have, this doesn't have it. So there's always been distance. And throughput. >> latency, throughput, capacity. >> Most people say who's streaming Netflix, Wi-Fi is down, so again people know this they experience it everyday. >> Exactly. >> What's the big hubbub about Wi-Fi 6? What's different? I got a little preview from Todd so I'll let you explain it but >> Yeah. >> What is the notable bullet points of why it's different? >> Yeah. >> And, Why it's a game changer? >> So it's, as with every technology, three things that it always brings up, better experiences, better capacity, increase capacity, and better battery savings, which I think is very important for users but more importantly useful for IOT applications, which is ... I'm very very excited on what its going to unleash when it comes to IOT. It's been in the fringe side of IOT, like oil and gas mining utilities is what we think when we think of IOT. And now we're going to think IOT in corporate space like this, right? Each one these devices are IOT devices now, like your HVAC systems, your lighting system, air conditioning systems, physical surveillance cameras. Everything with the Wi-Fi is IOT. And because of this increased capacity, an increase density, high density environment where this capacity becomes really critical, imagine 20 devices simultaneously using Wi-Fi to communicate high Bandwidth intensive application. That's when Wi-Fi 6 becomes really critical and powerful and that opens up a huge - >> So more coverage area. >> Yeah. >> With the Antenna. It's MIMO Antenna. >> Yeah. >> And Bandwidth, right? >> Capacity and Bandwidth, like compare to .11A, and even .11AX, right it's up to 4X better capacity, 4X better battery savings and the promised throughput of like six gigabits, right, so, But the key part here is simultaneously talking to multiple devices at the same time. And that is very very crucial because of technologies ... I don't want to geek out here, like OFDMA and all this etc. >> Well let's all ... architectural because one thing Susie brought up was, architectural shifts are going to be the big game, One of the game changes you brought up and you know Wi-Fi ... and I have seen it grow from the beginning, I remember when they first came out was a revelation and you know the battery power was an issue but it always was viewed as a peripheral to the network. >> Yeah. >> You bolt on Wi-Fi and just basically extend your land - >> Yeah. >> To use network parlance and now you're seeing people working on making it much more Core 1 Network. >> Absolutely. And Meraki kind of shows the benefit of having wireless and wired - >> Yeah. work together as one. >> Yeah, absolutely >> This seems to be the thesis behind Wi-Fi six. One core thing. >> Yeah. >> Not a bolt-on extension. >> No, absolutely. I think there's a saying which is the reality, behind every wireless there are tons of wires, right. So, 'cause everything that's connected to the wire infrastructure, and with the Wi-Fi 6 now having increased capacity and increased density, it's causing a cascading effect into the rest of the network infrastructure so it becomes highly, highly crucial when you architect your network infrastructure not just to think about wireless but what happens to the access switch, to the core, to the distribution, to the aggregation. And that has a compounding effect, like multi gig speeds in the access to 10 gig to 40 gig in the core going all the way to 100 gig, right, so, the whole performance and reliability to have that immersive experience that Wi-Fi six needs to bring in, needs to be there. >> so for developers and entrepreneurs out there who always look for the white space, CISCO is a big Multi-Billion dollar company. You guys got big market share, whenever there's big moves like this it causes a new change in the order, the pecking order - >> Yeah >> of companies, it changes the landscape. This is going to be a game changer because it's going to create the new opportunities to create new things. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What are some of the things that you see out there you could share for people watching who are you know hacking around creating things who say, I want to create something big. What's the enablement? What are some of the things that you see happening that are going to be emerging out of this? >> Yeah, a lot of Fringe technologies that are fringe right now are going to be mainstream, like imagine 2006, When iPhone came in, right so and we were just having the discussion, like, that came in at the heels of major shift in connectivity, that's when 3G came in, right, at that point and multi-megabit capacity, and you saw new applications come in. Now Uber, Lyft, all these kind of applications were possible because of the connectivity. And now, Wi-Fi 6 along with 5G will unleash the next wave of applications. So, first thing is immersive applications, things that are VR, AR, it's used for gaming right now, and kids use this, you're going to see that come in hospitals, where surgeons can do remote surgeries, they can have high-density imagery of your brain, for example, as you're operating, being sent to a remote expert and on the fly, make decisions, right? Like, that is going to be pretty normal and standard, in fact, quite a few of our customers are testing this out, right? VR learning, for students, like, if I were to go ... Like, imagine if you are at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, August 1963, right, listening to MLK "I Have A Dream" speech, and you're in the crowd, immersed in the VR, like, which student wouldn't have more recollection and really connect with that, right? >> I'm sorry, wait - >> You're going to see more and more of these, so it's a better way of learning, and really getting that learning sticking in your brain, you're going to see more of that happening. And the same goes with retail experience, you're shopping, it's going to completely change the way, because of all these immersive experiences. And then, because of the higher density, you're going to see entertainment venues like stadiums where everybody now wants to share their experience to the outside world, and livestream it, right? And I was talking to Carnival Cruise Line, who's one of our customers, and they call themselves City On The Sea, which means, a cruise ship is nothing but it has entertainment, casinos, hotels - >> Lots of food. (laughs) >> Lots of food, swimming pools Concerts happening, and when people took vacation they just wanted to disconnect from everything in the world, right? Now, it's completely reversed. They want to connect full-on, and share their experience in the land, right? And they want to stream it live, 4K. And, these cruise ships are transforming themselves to provide this always-on, fully-on immersive digital experience, and they're creating things like a mobile app to order pizza no matter where you are on the ship. Within five minutes they're going to find the exact location of where you are on the ship and deliver pizza to you, right? These kind of experiences will happen! >> And you know, the perfect storm in all this too, is that the Cloud earnings are coming out, we saw Microsoft's earnings yesterday, Amazon Web Series' earning >> Yeah. do proud of Amazon today, the Cloud stocks are up, the Clouds are growing at a massive scale, they're a power source for these application developers. >> Yeah. >> As well as the on-premise business. So you have, you now have the perfect developer environment - >> A hundred percent. >> To create these new wacky ideas that will be standard. I mean, what was once ... what we take as standard as you mentioned, was a wacky idea in 2006. >> Yeah. >> Location services, checking into a hotel with my phone and having - >> Yeah. >> Cars being delivered to me, what? Who does that? >> And this, this becomes a reality, and Cloud really increased the pace of innovation, right? Now it's kind of cheaper, you don't need to get your own server, you can kind of swipe your credit card, get a bunch of VM, start building applications, and now you have the required bandwidth capacity and density in your infrastructure, and you have the right devices right now to bring that experiences to you, right? So, now it's this trifecta of things, awesome devices, the network ready to deliver those experiences, and Cloud being able to scale out to build those experiences. >> Prashanth, I know you've got a big announcement coming up on the 29th, it's a virtual event, I think Cisco.com, they can probably find out with the URL where the event is, without revealing all the secret sauce, I know you guys had Wi-Fi 6 inside Cisco, >> Yeah. >> testing it out, I heard people in the hallway here, >> Yeah. >> Talking about it, um, and they're pretty animated in their commentary. Can you share the vibe and what's it like when the engineers look at the data, when they say, we just deployed the Wi-Fi 6, what was the reactions, um - >> Yeah. >> Were they blown away, was it mediocre, was it - >> Yeah. >> What were some of the things that they were saying, what was the feedback? >> We were piloting that, and the best way to look at it is, if you go to the wireless dev center on DevNet, you're going to see that we compared a 4K video running with Wi-Fi 6 and without Wi-Fi 6. I think the results speak for themselves. Like, the kind of experience that you're going to see, it's going to be beautiful, and when employees look at those things, and I talked about a few experiences, last week we had a thing called Cisco Beat which is internal employees that we rally around and talk about technology, but more importantly, what it means to us as human beings in a personal way, and what it means to our customers, and they were blown away with some of the applications that are going to be mainstream in all of the industries that I talked about, right? Like Healthcare, hospitality, education, entertainment venues, et cetera. >> What's the low-hanging fruit use cases? What's the things that are going to be right obvious, right out of the gate for companies to implement, in terms of deploying Wi-Fi 6 and seeing immediate benefits? >> Immediate benefits is high-density environment, period. Like student lecture halls, convention centers, areas like this, where everybody wants, like, understand what's going on, but be digitally and visually connected, right? It's not only about email checking anymore, That happens automatically. But if you're here and you want to watch Susie's keynote livestream right now, with high density, and 20 other people want to watch with you, on their devices, it's possible, without a hitch. So that seamless, always-on experience becomes a reality that people can easily test out in small environments, right? Not in their entire environment, where there are high-density of people, accessing multi-media applications or high-bandwidth applications, so I feel that's a low-hanging fruit. And then it's going to go more and more towards IOT applications where sensors are getting connected, like some of our customers are brewers, have hundreds and thousands of sensors in their farms, in brewing machines, and they want all of their data to come and look at that simultaneously for quality control, right? Beer, no matter where it's made, should taste consistent, right? So you can see that coming to life, because now all of these can be connected, and because of better density and better capacity and better battery savings for these IOT devices that Wi-Fi 6 provides, you make these applications possible. So you're going to see very vertical-specific applications coming more and more with Wi-Fi 6. >> Vertical-specific, because you mentioned a number of different customer examples, you know, ranging from retailer, to - >> Yeah. >> Carnival Cruise Line, it's now this connected city - >> Yeah. >> Are there any verticals you see where, when you're talking with customers they're not quite there yet? >> Yeah, that's an interesting thing, it's ... for a change, you always have these early adopters but there is a lot of laggers who are just watching, waiting on the sidelines saying, mm, that's not for me. With Wi-Fi 6, there's been a lot of industry excitement, I would say, like manufacturing full-on, right, just coming on board. Retail, higher education, are always in the early-adopter phase, because for them, and there has been studies shown to say this directly impacts their brand - >> Yes. >> like customer experience defines brand. >> Oh, absolutely. >> And Wi-Fi, equals customer experience these days, right? So, you're going to see all of these industries really, I think I haven't seen much in maybe financial services, if you will, I think that's the only thing that I can remember, transportation, big on, like, machine to machine communication, autonomous driving is possible now because of 5G and Wi-Fi 6, right? So, and you are seeing more and more of this industry - >> This is right in your wheelhouse, and you guys have been pushing the edge for a long time, SD Wind, campus networking This is not new to Cisco. >> Yeah. >> But now with Wi-Fi 6, it literally lights that up. >> Yeah. Yup. >> Pun intended. >> I mean, you can now enable those environments to be completely robust, fully addressable, data-driven - >> Yeah. I think data that you mentioned becomes very, very crucial in this, because, especially now when you have so many more users, so many more devices, so many more applications getting on the network, people are really trying to figure out, what do I do with this? How do I get visibility into ... am I delivering the right experience? Am I providing the right security, et cetera, right? So, data becomes extremely crucial, and you'll see emergence of ML and AI technology because it's going to be humanly impossible to look at all of the data and make sense. So you've got to do machines, do their job, figure out patterns, air on dwell time, foot traffic, predictive ways of saying things may break, the experience may change, and predicting that even before they happen, and giving the right insight to the IT in the line of business, so Wi-Fi 6 is going to open up a whole new slew of ML and AI-driven operations and management capability too, so that's pretty exciting. >> When are they going to pull up a GPU on the Wi-Fi 6 devices? >> (laughs) Oh, it's happening. >> It's ready? >> It is going to happen, because you can run Edge computing applications right on Wi-Fi 6 devices, so you're going to see all of that, so, application hosting capabilities with GPU powered applications are going to be there. >> Just a network connection, right? >> Yeah. So you are going to see that, and frankly even I don't know what some of the Edge computing applications with Wi-Fi 6 will be, but we are seeing more and more of these coming ... DevNet buying tech, yeah. >> Well we did some research, we keep on a part of our SiliconANGLES team, where we prove that it's easier and more cost-effective, rather than moving data around, you move compute to the Edge - >> Edge. >> And then you use the backhaul, 'cause it costs money to send data around the network. It's costly. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and the autonomous cars was one great example, right? Like, it's a life-and-death situation when you are letting the car drive itself, right? So, you can't send all the data to the Cloud and say, analyze it for me. There are instantaneous decisions to be made, in milli-micro- nanoseconds, that need to be done on the Edge. So I think autonomous cars are a great example of Edge computing that needs to happen right on the Edge. The learning can then start happening in the Cloud, right? As in when these things get more and more smarter, you send all this data, you correlate all the intelligence there, you send it back to the machines. So you're going to see these kind of Edge computing applications. >> So you're excited by Wi-Fi 6? >> Nah. >> (laughter) >> Wi-Fi 6, so that's an even number, is that to be odd numbers, or lucky, I mean, the naming convention? >> No! >> Is there a - >> We want to be better than 5G. (laughter) So 5G is fifth generation of cellular, >> Okay. >> Wi-Fi 6 is sixth generation of Wi-Fi, right? I mean it's - >> So you're going to trump the 5G with the 6, >> Yeah. >> Kind of get ahead of it. >> Because it is truly the sixth generation of Wi-Fi. >> Okay, that's what it is. >> If we were to go back in time we would call 802.11ac, Wi-Fi 5. Right? It's kind of not that easy to say, but yeah, so Wi-Fi 5 happened like three or four years back, and now it's Wi-Fi sixth gen, so. >> We'll have to do a deep dive in the studio sometime, >> Oh, absolutely. >> on getting into all the spectrum issues, you know, the channels - >> Yeah. >> And the antennas and chains and all that good stuff. >> Yeah. There's a lot to geek out on that. (laughs) >> Yeah, it's going to be fun. >> So you talked about, kind of before we wrap up here, you talked about, you know, everything really kind of being related to, or how this can help companies with brand, and brand is everything to any type of company - >> Yeah. >> We talk at every event we go to about how it's all about customer experience. >> Yeah. >> So my last question for you is, how is Wi-Fi 6 and some of these new technologies that clearly you're excited about, how do you think that's going to change the experience for your internal customers, and from being able to get things out faster, to your external Cisco customers? >> Yeah, when you say internal, our own employees - >> Yes. >> Our R and D? >> Yes, exactly. >> Absolutely. So I think, and one of the examples was shown right here, right, so, and I'm connecting the two answers that you had, like, there's a lot of technology details behind what we do, right, we spend tons of money doing R and D, but we wanted to expose that to our own customers, to our channel partners, and to our developers, right? So, this is something that Wi-Fi 6 brings a lot to our customers. So, all the goodness, the intelligence that we have hidden in our network, now gets exposed, through these APIs, to our developers, and to our own customers. So the internal customers of ours, which are engineers, Cisco IT, are tremendously excited to see what that unveils to us, right? And DevNet provides that platform where you can expose this through APIs, whether it's for security, whether it's for application experience, whether it's for better operations, and have new co-creation of applications that we haven't envisioned, new ways of ecosystem partners coming up and building new applications that we haven't envisioned. So, for our own R and D teams, it's pretty exciting. Because - >> Big catalyst. >> Yeah, just, exactly. You're just providing the platform, it's the catalyst for innovations, and that's what the internet was when we created that, right? We didn't know the internet of 20 years back is going to be the internet of today, and we didn't envision that, but here we are. >> Well the ETI's going to open up your market, because you're going to create an enablement to pass that forward, the opportunities to other developers to come up with the ideas. >> Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole idea, is to provide them a platform to come up with innovations and ideas, and help share these ideas to other folks, right, because when the minds meld, it gets better and better. >> Build some good apps, make ... get it distributed on Wi-Fi 6, make some money, build a business, create a great app - >> Runs on your feet. It's step by step. >> It's a big inflection point. >> That's a pretty good motto. >> It's an inflection point. >> It is. It is truly, I believe, an inflection point. Mainly because, frankly, Wi-Fi 6 and 5G coming together, truly, because me and you as a user really don't care whether I'm on Wi-Fi or cellular, and we shouldn't, right, all I expect is no matter what I do, where I go, and I use my device, I should get the same consistent seamless experience. >> It works. >> Well I don't have the unlimited plan, so I'd love to have it - >> You would with that. on the Wi-Fi. (laughter) >> So you've got this virtual event next week on the 29th - >> Yeah. >> Is that going to tee up anything, any exciting things we're going to hear at Cisco Live a few weeks later? >> Oh yeah. Big time. Big time. (laughs) >> Any teasers you can give us? >> Without getting fired? Yeah, it's going to be tough. (laughter) No, yeah, I think things that we talked today are what we're going to explain more, and we're going to give more flavor on what Cisco's actually is actually doing from our products perspective, solutions, partnership perspective, to bring it to life, right? So, that's really exciting, so I highly encourage the folks that are watching this to register for this on Cisco.com Go Wired For Wireless event, so it's fun, because we've got a lot of industry experts, customers because that's where rubber meets the road - >> Absolutely. >> And that's where the top good applications, how far along they are, what are they testing, what are they trying out, and then we can geek out on all the technology, right? But it always starts with why, and why does it matter. So ... and that's why I'm excited, yeah. >> It sounds exciting. My cheeks are hurting from smiling. Prashanth, thank you so much ... right? ... for sharing your enthusiasm, your energy and expertise, it's been fun. We look forward to, uh, the virtual event next week, and hearing more about what's going on at Cisco Live. >> Thanks Lisa, thanks John. >> Well, our pleasure. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching The Cube live from day two of our coverage, of Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners! (electronic music) >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman and my co-host John Troyer, you're watching SiliconANGLES' production of theCUBE here at VMworld 2017 in Las Vegas. Happy to welcome to the program two first-time guests, but from a company we've talked to many times. Rex Backman and Rob Young, both with Red Hat. Rex is the senior principal marketing manager and Rob is the senior manager of Red Hat product management, gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having us, we're happy to be here! >> So sorry, tripping over, sometimes, titles and things like that, just like acronyms go out there, sometimes. So you know, I go back, I started working with Red Hat before Red Hat Advanced Server came out, which became Red Hat Enterprise Server, then, when we talk about virtualization, it used to be RHEV, R-H-E-V, and now it's RHV! >> Yup, making it simpler! >> Sometimes the people stay in the same place and, you know, the badges change, other times things change a lot. So why don't we start with Rob, tell us a bit about how long you've been at Red Hat, your role there? >> So I've been with Red Hat now for two years, almost to the date. I come from an open source pedigree, so I worked with companies like MySQL, MongoDB, to develop not only the open source model but a community around those products, and a commercialized version that people trust in running their data centers. >> Alright, and Rex, yourself? >> I'm fairly new to Red Hat, joined about three months ago. Virtualization background, really, from the world of Microsoft. So happy to be at Red Hat, we've got a strong offering with RHEV, and we just want to help get people more educated on it and the opportunities we have to help solve their problems. >> Alright, it's always an interesting dynamic. You talk, you know, virtualization, we spent a decade, you know, VMware's ascendancy and the threat of Microsoft, you know, KVM and RHEV and everything were going to be there. There's a nice Red Hat booth on the show floor. Always, customers have had Linux sitting as guests in there and lots of those, I'm sure you probably have stats for me as to how much of that's been Red Hat over the years, but tell us about the relationship, you know, VMware, Red Hat, virtualization? >> So we see the relationship with VMware and other, you know, companies and partners within our ecosystem as very positive. If you look at the workloads that are running on VMware primarily, a lot of those are Red Hat Enterprise Linux, applications that are running on Red Hat Enterprise Linux, so we see it as a very positive relationship. And moving ahead, we see a challenge in maintaining a virtualization footprint within VMware, within the market, because of the evolution of the market. And we see that virtualization is becoming more of a commodity-based feature and the challenges that it poses to partners like VMware, going forward, to evolve along with that model in the market. >> Well, if virtualization is a commodity, and it's becoming a commodity, what's the Red Hat approach with KVM et al in terms of, it is, parts of it are commodity, but certainly, the stack and the system it plugs into is not. >> Yeah. >> I would say, it's also very foundational. Virtualization is everywhere, and I think the value that Red Hat brings to it is, you know, the capabilities we have in our team, the capabilities we derive from the open source model. And then virtualization with RHEV, bundled in with Red Hat Enterprise Linux, it's foundational. And then if you bring in other aspects of the Red Hat stack, around manageability, cloud, things of that nature, I think we have a strong offering, a good offering that people can choose from. And I think that's really important for us, is our customers have choice. And us, we differentiate ourselves on the open source model, primarily. >> Rob, it keeps becoming a more and more complex world. We've been watching, for years, it was the pull of cloud against the data center, now we're even seeing Edge pulling at the cloud. But let's go back to the data center. What's Red Hat's viewpoints, what are you hearing from customers, what do they need in the data center, and how are they viewing that these days? >> So what we see in the modern data center, one, the workloads that we see around Mode One applications or Legacy applications, that footprint is not going away. It's going to continue to have a bare metal footprint as well as a virtualized and private cloud. So what we're doing, and what our customers are asking us for, is a transition from pure virtualization or bare metal to virtualization to hybrid cloud. And what we're doing now, with our engineering efforts, not only upstream but also from a proprietary and configuration standpoint, all open source by the way, is we are giving customers the option to standardize on that virtualization platform built on KVM that shares components with hybrid cloud technologies from Mode Two. So what we see, from our customers, is that they're maintaining a Mode One, but buying and planning for Mode Two. And that's how we see the on-premise data center market heading at this point. >> Okay, I'd like you to unpack that for our audience. Because, big discussion this week is, public cloud, yeah sure, it has virtualization, but it's not VMware. So now we've got this one option, VMware and AWS starting to roll out, are you saying that my data center can really be compatible with the public clouds and, you know, the Red Hat pieces on both sides, or is it native to what AWS and Google are doing? How does that dynamic work? >> So the way we're approaching it is, we look at it, not only as a software solution, but also as a paradigm shift in more openness, APIs, things are more generic. So if you want to plug into a common framework for management, as an example, or deployment, you can easily do that via the open APIs that are available in the open source community. So as an example, we provide a management solution called Cloud Forms. And with that platform, it's part of the Red Hat stack and solution, we allow customers to manage not only the virtualized environment but also, their hybrid or private clouds, but also AWS as well. So if they've got instances running on AWS, they can manage it through one pane of glass. And this is our strategy going forward, but it's not tomorrow, this is happening today with our Red Hat Stack platform. >> Rex, you've got a background in networking, networking front and center, and networking and security even more than ever, that I've seen at VMworld. How does that fit into Red Hat's whole story? >> You know, if you look at the world of virtualization, obviously, we've gone from the story of server virtualization, network virtualization, storage virtualization, and those are the antes into the game now, and I think, Red Hat, with what we provide, and Red Hat Enterprise Linux, obviously the foundation started with, you know, the knowledge that our R&D team brings from their open source background around RHEV and server virtualization. But also, now, network virtualization capabilities, and also, what Red Hat has around storage. So I think we cover those three antes into the game of virtualization, and then, you know, it adds to the equation Rob was talking about, which is the whole Red Hat Stack, which I think is a good story, and a choice for our customers. >> I think, actually, 2017 is actually a really interesting year for virtualization. We're at an interesting era, right? 10 years ago you had some market dominance, you're looking at Microsoft and VMware like we talked about, we had Zen and KVM came up, and they were a little scary for people, right? They were developing, they weren't as mature of a stack. I do think, now, that the average admin in an average, you know, IT estate, is actually dealing with the fact that, oh, I could actually manage multiple hypervisors, look at a mixed estate, it's not as scary anymore, the technology is more mature, more manageable. Can you talk a little bit about that scenario of a mixed estate? Like, if you have, part of your data center is running VMware, what kinds of use cases and what kinds of management scenarios would you, as you start to add Red Hat virtualization to the mix? >> So the dynamic that we see and play right now is, there's a huge install-base on VMware. And a lot of customers, a lot of clients, a lot of partners are looking at that relationship now and deciding if they should invest elsewhere in other solutions. So what we provide is the ability to manage those environments, the clients for hyper-V, for VMware, for Red Hat, all within one pane of glass. But it allows customers who want the choice to manage that heterogeneous environment built on multiple hypervisors, but it allows them to evaluate if, maybe, the Red Hat solution is better for them. And if we can help them with V to V migrations as well, workload migration, mobility, I think that's the perfect scenario for Red Hat, an open source company, and choice. >> And I think some of the customers, you know, public case studies that we've promoted, some of the attributes that they've been looking at that shifted them over towards the Red Had side was performance, you know, was very important. Scalability was very important. So I think, it depends, customer to customer. >> I was actually wondering about, so do we see re-platforming as people are re-architecting? Are these green field opportunities? I imagine, again, it's all across the board. But have you seen any particularly common patterns of people standing up, maybe a new business-critical app on a new platform, maybe they're re-architecting it to be a little bit more cloud-native, any particular directions like that? >> I think, some of the things I've seen recently is an enterprise IT organization has decided to go down an open source path for their world. And then that kind of is a strong point for us. Mountain Health is a company that there's some news on, from last week, is an example of that. British Airways is another customer like that. And, you know, as Rob said. It's large companies, big brands, down to commercial companies as well, or governments, or education. So I think it could be performance, it could be open source, open source is definitely one of the drivers though. >> Yeah, and what we're seeing there with open source is, the more trust is built in open source, the more enterprise adoption, and the cost-effectiveness of working with a development team that's worldwide, a QE team that's worldwide, really helps to build the stability of the products that companies like Red Hat build subscription models around. So there's no vendor lock-in, as well, for proprietary licensing models. And we find that many customers are very open to that discussion, as opposed to, you know, the alternatives. >> One of the other discussions we've been having at VMworld for the last couple years is this whole containers discussion. VM versus containers, is it containers inside VMs, Red Hat Summit, there was huge discussion, there was the super popular t-shirt, on one side it said, Linux is containers, and on the other side it said, Containers are Linux. So where do you see that discussion? What do you think about how VMware's been looking at things? There was a big announcement about VMware and, through the pivotal activity, kind of embracing Kubernetes, Red Hat's, I'm sure, saying, welcome to the party, right? (laughing) >> So there's an interesting dynamic with containers, because containers, Kubernetes, you know, you name the project, is purely an open source play. And if you look at the projects, the contributors, most of this is going to be built on an open source model. So proprietary software companies, like VMware, are going to be challenged to adapt and evolve how they develop, how they contribute, their presence within those communities. Now, Red Hat is uniquely positioned in that our model has been, for the last 25 years, that we're purely open source. Everything we do is out in the community. And it lends itself very naturally, not only the way we've done commercialization of Linux, but we're doing that now with containers as well. And if you look at the dynamic in the market, a lot of people believe that there's VM or containers, and this is really a symbiotic or complimentary relationship. 85% of the workloads for containers runs within a virtualized environment, and containers and virtualization fill gaps for each other that's just a natural complement, and just because Red Hat is already comfortable operating in the open source environment in this way, we think we're just in a very good position to lead in both areas. >> You mentioned open source commercialization. And Jim Whitehurst, the CO of Red Hat, has been on theCUBE, Stu and I talked with him at the last Open Stack Summit. I was super impressed by his insight and grasp into the economics of open source and how Red Hat has been able to build a model like that. Can you talk at all about data centers, or IT spend in general, and capex, opex, where it's going in a more open source driven world? Where do you put your money then? >> So do you want to answer? (laughs) >> I'll take a stab at it. >> Can you now invest your money, that's a little better. >> Yeah, I think it's really interesting. And I'm going to answer this question from the perspective of a three-month Red Hat employee, but with, you know, a lot of experience in the industry with proprietary companies, if you will. I think the value, the commercialization of what Red Hat has done, there's the upstream aspects of open source and the programs available there. And then there's the downstream commercialization of what Red Hat has done, which is wrapping the value of a Red Hat subscription around that open source project. And I think what we see in our customers in terms of budget spend, you know, more on the opex side than the capex side, in our case, is looking at that price point. Because some of our customers, well, many of our customers, if not all of our customers, there is a price sensitivity. I think a lot of our customers right now, maybe this might be a crazy thing to say, may not be as price-sensitive as they used to be. Now it's more about innovation, agility, speed to market. But still, the economics is important. And I think the value Red Hat provides and the uniqueness in the model that Jim and his crew cracked early on to start Red Hat, is the ability to provide that Red Hat subscription at value for open source, and, what we see is that, most of the time, in cases, it's an attractive price point and that's how we win customers. So I think, long-winded answer to your question is, I think there's a strong future. You see more and more companies adopting open source in their programs. I think Red Hat is the leader of that and in good shape! >> Rob, why don't you just give us the final word. Conversations you're having at the show, how are people here in the VMware community embracing, is it an open source discussion, is it the innovation, and kind of, the new features, what's bringing them by to talk to Red Hat? >> I think it's a mixture. So what we're seeing is a lot of interest in Red Hat Solutions, the Red Hat Stack. And I think customers are now looking at Red Hat as a good enough alternative to more pricey alternatives, or more pricey options. And if you look at what we've done from a strategic standpoint is, much like we've done with Red Hat Enterprise Linux, we are now using Enterprise Linux as a foundational support pillar, so to speak, for the Red Hat Stack. If you look at the APIs that we generated, a lot of the interest I'm getting, the question I'm getting not only from customers, but from folks out on the show floor, other vendors, is, what's your API look like? Can I learn more about it? And to me, that's the leading edge of a wave of, maybe that partner's looking a little more red (laughs) in the days to come. So, just, my opinion. >> Absolutely, I know John Troyer and I have been talking for a few years now, that API economy, something that's been coming into this world, and that intersection between what all the Linux admins have known for a long time as to their operational model matches a lot of what we're seeing in the cloud. So Rob Young, Rex Backman, really appreciate you joining us. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman, we'll be back with lots more coverage here from VMworld 2017. You're watching theCUBE. (futuristic music)

(soft music) (soft music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube. Covering Oracle Modern Customer Experience 2017. Brought to you by Oracle. >> Okay welcome back everyone. We're live in Las Vegas. This is the Cube. SiliconAngles flagship program. We got out to the events and extract the (mumbles). Been here two full days of wall to wall coverage. I'm John Furrier. My cohost Peter Burris. Peter really good to see Oracle really move from modern marketing experience, the old show name, to a cleaner broader canvas called Modern CX. Which is modern customer experience. And you startin to see the new management which took the baton from the old management. Kevin Akeroyd. Andrea Ward who did a lot of work. I mean they basically did a ton of acquisitions. We talked last year if you remember. Look they have a data opportunity and we spelled it right out there and said if they can leverage that data horizontally and then offer that vertical specialism with differentiation, they could have their cake and eat it too. Meaning the pillars of solutions in a digital fabric with data. That's what they did. They essentially did it. >> Yeah they did. And it's been, it was a. We came here hoping that that's what we would see and that's what we saw John. Oracle not only has access to a lot of data but a lot of that first person data that really differentiates the business. Information about your finances. Information about your customers. Information about orders. That's really, really crucial data. And it's not easy to get. And if you could build a a strategy for your customers that says let's find ways of bringing in new sources of data. Leveraging that data so that we can actually help you solve and serve your customers better. You got a powerful story. That's a great starting point. >> And one of the things that I would observe here is that this event, the top story was that Mark Hurd came down and talked to the customers in the keynote. And also made a cameo visit to the CMO, some which they had separately. But really kind of basically putting it transparently out there. Look we got all this technology. Why are we spending all of this technology and effort to get a one percent conversion rate on something that happens over here. Let's look at it differently. And I think the big story here is that Oracle puts the arc to the future. Which I think is a very relevant trajectory. Certainly directionally correct using data and then figuring out your process and implementing it. But really looking at it from a people perspective and saying if you can use the data, focus your energies on that data to get new things going. And not rely on the old so much. Make it better but bring in the new. >> I think that's the one thing that we need to see more from Oracle in all honesty. At shows, this show, and shows like this. Is that and we asked the question to a couple quests. What exactly is modern marketing? Technology can allow a company to do the wrong things faster and cheaper. And in some cases that's bad. In marketing that's awful. Because more of the wrong thing amplifies the problem. That's how you take down a brand. You can really annoy the hell out of your customers pretty quickly. >> Well I think you made that point interesting I thought. On that just to reiterate that, validate that, and amplify. Is that if you focus more on serving the business as a marketer versus now it's about the customer. Okay which is why I like the CX and I know you do too. You can create enterprise value through that new way. Versus hey look what team. I'm helping you out with some leads and whatever. Support, content. Marketing now owns the customer relationship. >> Well marketers talk about a persona all the time John. They say what's the persona? It's a stylized type of customer, and now with data we can make it increasingly specific. Which is very, very powerful. I think Oracle needs to do the same thing with the marketing function. What is that marketing function persona that Oracle is, it's self driving to. Driving it's customers to. And trying to lead the industry into. So I would personally like to see a little bit more about what will be the role of marketing in the future. What exactly is the modern. What exactly is modern marketing? What is the road map that Oracle has, not just for delivering the technology, but for that customer transformation that they talk about so much. It's clear that they have an idea. I'd like to see a little bit more public. Cause I think a lot of marketers need to know where they're going to end up. >> I was a bit skeptical coming in here today. I was a little nervous and skeptical. I like the team though, the people here. But I wasn't sure they were going to be able to pull this off as well as they did. I'd give them a solid letter grade of an A on this event. Not an A plus because I think there's some critical analysis that's worth addressing in my opinion. In my opinion Oracle's missing some things. It's not their fault. They're only going as fast as they can. Not to get into your perspective too, but here's my take. They don't know how to deal with video. That came up as technical issue. But Jay -- >> But nobody really does. >> But nobody really does. And that's just again because we're in the video business it jumped out at me. But Jay Baer was on. Who's hosted the CMO Summit. And he's out there too like us. Content is a big thing. And I haven't heard a lot about the content equation in the marketing mix. So if you look at the modern marketing mix, content is data. And content is instrumental as a payload for email marketing. And we're in the content business so we know a lot about the engagement side of it. So I just don't see a lot of the engagement conversations that are happening around content. Don't see that dots connecting. >> And I think you're right. I think you're right John. And part of the reason is, and again I think Oracle needs to do a better job at articulating what this means. From our perspective, it's my perspective but you agree with me. I'll put words in your mouth. Is that marketing has to be a source of value to customers. Well what do customers find valuable? They find information in easily digestible, consumable chunks as they go on their journey. What are those chunks? Those chunks, in fact, are content. So to tie this back and show how crucial this is. At the end of the day, consumers, businesses need to learn about your brand. Need to learn about next best action. All that other stuff. In consumable interesting, valuable chunks. And it ultimately ends up looking like content. So your absolutely right to talk about how this all comes together and show how, that content is the mechanism by which a lot of this value's actually going to be delivered. Is really crucial. >> And now to give the praise sandwich, as we say in positive coaching alliance, two positives and then the critical analysis in the middle. That's the praise sandwich. So to give them some praise around the criticism. I will say that Oracle validates for me, and this is why I think they got a good strategy. That there's no silver bullet in marketing. Okay there's no silver bullet. This product will get you more engagement. This will do that. They do show that data is going to be an instruble part of creating a series of collections of silver bullets. Of bullets if you will. To create that value. And I think that's the key. And then the second praise is, this is kind of nuance in their analysis. But the third party data support, is a big deal in my mind. I want to expand more on that. I want to learn more about it. Because when you have the first party data, which is very valuable, and access to more data sources. That becomes increasingly interesting. So the extensibility for getting content data or other data can come in through third party. I think that opens the door for Oracle to innovate on the area we gave the criticism on. So I think that's a positive trend. I think that's a good outlook on having the ability to get that third party data. >> Yeah but it's also going to be one of the places where Oracle is going to have to compete very, very aggressively with some other leaders who are a little bit more oriented towards content. At least some of their marketing clients are a little bit more content oriented. I'm comfortable Oracle will get there because let's face it. At the end of the day, marketing's always done a pretty good job of created, creative, using data to figure out what creative to use or create is nice. Very important. But what we're really talking about is customer experience. Will the customer get something out of every interaction? And while content's crucial to that the end result is ultimately, is the customer successful? And Oracle is showing a better play for that. So I'll give you, I like the way you did it on the grading. I'll give them a B plus. But I'm not disagreeing with you. I think we saw A talent here. We saw an A minus story. And they're a year in. So there's still some work that needs to be done, but it's clearly -- >> Why you weighted as a B plus >> I give them an A on vector. And where they're going. >> I would agree with that. >> And the feedback that we've gotten from the customers walking the show floor. There's a lot of excitement. A lot of positive energy. The other thing that I would say -- >> Oh the band. I'd give the band, the band was a B minus. (Peter laughs) Yeah that takes it. That's going to kill the curve. >> What was the band last night? >> I don't even remember. We missed the good one, I know that. We had dinner so we came late. It was a good band. It wasn't like, it wasn't like Maroon 5 or One Republic. Or Imagine Dragons or U2. >> Or one of the good ones. Sting. C minus. But the other thing that I think is really important is at least it pertains to modern customer experience. Is that they are, they are absolutely committed to the role the data's going to play. And we talked about that right at the front. But they are demonstrating a deep knowledge of how data and data integration and data flows are really going to impact the way their customers businesses operate. And I think that there were a couple of, I'll give a really high point and one that I want to hear more about in terms of the interviews we had. Great high point was one, we talked a lot about data science and how data science technologies are being productized. And that we heard, for example, that Oracle's commitment to it's marketplace is that they are going to insure that their customers can serve their customer's customers with any request within 130 milliseconds anywhere in the world. That's a very, very powerful statement that you can only really make if you're talking about having an end to end role over, or influence -- >> Like we commented, that's a good point. Like we commented that this end to end architecture is going to be fundamental. If you read the tea leaves and look at other things happening, like at Mobile World Congress. Intel I think is a bellwether on this with 5G. Cause they have to essentially create this overlay for connectivity as well as network transformation to do autonomous vehicles. To do smart cities. To smart homes. All these new technologies. It's an end to end IPR (mumbles). It's connected devices. So they're super smart to have this connected data theme which I think's relevant. But the other one, Ron Corbusier's talked about this evolution. And I find some of these, and I want to get your reaction to this statement. So Ron was kind of like, "oh it's an evolution. "We've seen this movie before." Okay great. But when you talk to Marta Feturichie, who was a customer from Royal Phillips. >> Peter: Great interview. >> She's head of CRM. Now she's doing some other stuff. So okay. What does CRM mean? So if you think evolution. What the customers are doing. Time Warner and Royal. It's interesting. Certain things are becoming critical infrastructure and other things are becoming more dynamic and fluid. So if you believe in evolution, these are layers of innovation. So stuff can be hardened as critical infrastructure, say like email marketing. So I think that what's happening here is you start to see some hardening of some critical infrastructure, aka marketing technology. MarTech (mumbles). Maybe some consolidation. AdTech kind of comes together. Certain things are going to be hardened and platformized. >> Let's take the word hardened and change it cause I know what you mean. Let's say it's codified. Now why is that, why is that little distinction a little bit interesting is because the more codified it gets, the more you can put software on it. The more you can put software on it the more you can automate it. And now we're introducing this whole notion of the adaptive intelligence. Where as we start to see marketing practices and processes become increasingly codified. What works, what doesn't work? What should we do more of? What should we do less of? Where should we be spending out time and innovating? Versus where should we just be doing it because it's a road activity at this point in time. That's where introducing this adaptive intelligence technology becomes really interesting. Because we can have the adaptive technology elements handle that deeply codified stuff where there really is not a lot of room for invention. And give the more interesting ongoing, customer engagement, customer experience -- >> Right on. And I think we should challenge Oracle post event and keep an eye on them on this adaptive intelligence app concept. Because that is something that they should ride to the sunset cause that is just a beautiful positioning. And if they can deliver the goods on that, they say they have it. We'll expand on that. That's going to give them the ability to churn out a ton of apps and leverage the data. But to the codified point you're making, here's my take. One of the things that I hear from customers in marketing all the time is a lot of stuff if oh yeah mobile first all that stuff. But still stuff's web presence based. So you got all these coded URL's. You got campaigns running ten ways from Sunday. DNS is not built to be adaptive and flexible. So it's okay to codify some of those systems. And say, "look we just don't tinker with these anymore." They're locked and loaded. You build on top of it. Codify it. And make that data the enabling technology from that. >> Peter: Without it become new inflexible (mumbles). >> Yeah I can't say, "Hey let's just tweak the hardened infrastructure "to run an AB test on a campaign." Or do something. No, no. You set this codified systems. You harden them. You put software on top of them. And you make it a subsystem that's hardened. And that's kind of what I mean. That's where the market will go because let's face it. The systems aren't that intelligent to handle a lot of marketing. >> Peter: They're still computers. >> They're still computers. People are running around just trying to fix some of this spaghetti code in marketing. And as the marketing department gets more IT power. Hey you own it. They're owning now. Be afraid what you wish for you might get it. So now they own the problem. So I think Oracle on the surfaces side has a huge opportunity to do what they did with Time Warner. Come into the market and saying, "Hey we got that for you." And that's what Hurd's kind of subtle message was on his keynote. Hey we're IT pros, but by the way you don't need to be in the IT business to do this. We fix your problems and roll out this -- >> We're going to talk to you in your language. And your language is modern customer experience. Which is one of the reasons why they've got to be more aggressive. And stating what they mean by that. >> And we have all the data in our data cloud. And all the first party data in our Oracle database. >> Right, right exactly right. >> That system of record becomes the crown jewel. Oracle has a lock spec on the table. You think it's a lock spec? >> Uh no. And that's exactly why I think they need to articulate where this is all going a little bit. They have to be a leader in defining what the future of marketing looks like so they can make it easier for people to move forward. >> Alright putting you on the spot. What do you think a modern marketing looks like? And organization. >> We talked about this and the answer that I gave, and I'll evolve it slightly, cause we had another great guest and I thought about it a little bit more is. A brand continuously and always delivers customer value. Always. And one of the -- >> Kind of cliche-ish. >> Kind of cliche-ish. >> Dig into it. >> But modern marketing is focused on delivering customer value. >> How? >> If they're deliver - well for example when the customer has a moment in a journey of uncertainty. Your brand is first is first to the table with that content that gets them excited. Gets them comfortable. >> Lot of progression. >> Makes them feel ready to move forward. That your, and well I'll make another point in a second. And I would even say that we might even think about a new definition of funnel. At the risk of bringing up that old artifact. Historical funnel went to the sale. Now we can actually start thinking about what's that funnel look like to customer success. >> Well there's two funnel dynamics that are changing. This is important, I think. This is going to be one of those moments where wow the Cube actually unpacked a major trend and I believe it to be true. The vertical funnel has collapsed. And now the success funnel is not >> Peter: It's not baked. >> Not big. It's decimated from this perspective of if the sale is the end game of the funnel, pop out that's over. Your point is kind of like venture funding for starter. That's when the start line begins. So here it's, okay we got a sale. But now we have instrumentation to take it all the way through the life cycle. >> And you know John. That's a great way of thinking about it. That many respects when you, when you introduce a customer to a new solution that has complex business implications that you are jointly together making an investment in something. And you both have to see it through. >> I mean sales guys put investment proposal on the -- >> That's exactly right. And so I think increasingly. So I would say modern marketing, modern marketing comes down to customer success. A prediction I'll make for next year is that this session is called, you know we'll call it the modern marketing modern customer experience show. But the theme is going to be customer success. >> Heres what I'm going to do. Here's what we're going to do this year Peter. We're going to, we will, based upon this conversation which we're riffing in real time as we analyze and summarize the event. We, I will make it my mission. And you're going to work with me on this as a directive. We're going to interview people, we're going to pick people that are truly modern marketing executives. >> Peter: That's great. >> We're going to define a simple algorithm that says this is what we think a modern marketing executive looks like. And we're going to interview them. We're going to do a story on them. And we're going to start to unpack because I think next year. We should be coming here saying, "we actually did our work on this." We figured out that a modern marketing organization and an executive behave and look this way. >> Right I think it's a great idea. So I'll give you one more thought. Cause I know you'll like this one too. Doug Kennedy. The partner. The conversation that we had. >> Very good. >> Talking about clearly a grade A executive. Seven weeks into the job. But that is going to be, you know for this whole thing to succeed he's got a lot of work in front of him. It's going to be very interesting to see how over the course of time this show and other Oracle shows evolve. >> I have a lot of partner experience. You do too. He's got a zillion years under his belt. He's a pro. He did not have any deer in the headlights look for seven weeks on the job. He's been there. He's done that. He knows the industry. He's seen the cycles of change. He's ridden waves of innovation up and down. And I think Oracle has a huge opportunity with his new program. And that is Oracle knows how to make money. Okay Oracle knows how to price things. They know how to execute on the sales side and go to market. And partners relationships are grounded in trust. And profitability. I would say profitability first and trust second. And it's kind of a virtuous circle. >> But John they've got to start getting grown in customer experience right? >> John: Yeah, yep. >> And that's not, it's doable but it's going to be a challenge. >> Well we talk about swim lanes with his interview, and I thought that was interesting. If you look at a center for instance, Deloy, PWC and all the different players. They're picking their swim lanes where their core competency is. And that's what he was basically saying. They're going to look for core competency. Now I think they're not there yet. The major SI's and potential partners. So he's going to have to put the spec out and put the bar there and say this is what we got to do. But you got to make the channel serve the customer. It has to be profitable. And it has to be relevant. And the only dangerous strategy I would say is the co-selling thing is always dicey. >> Especially if one has customer experience as a primary. >> It requires equilibrium in the ecosystem. >> You got it, you got it. >> It isn't there. >> And also it's a multi-partner go to market. It's not just one or two now. >> So he's going to have to really spread the love at the same time have hardened rules. Stick to his knitting on that one. Okay Peter final word. What do you, bottom line the show. Encapsulate the show into a bumper sticker. >> Well we heard Amazon released today. Google released today. Beat their numbers. Two companies that are trying to build an ecosystem from their core of the cloud. And the question is. Is Oracle who has customers with applications and with that first person data. Are they going to be able to cloudify, sorry for using that word, but are they going to be able to gain that trust that this new operating model they're really committed to for the future. Before Amazon and Google can create applications to their platform. Because Oracle has the end to end advantage right now. And in the world where digital's important. Speed's important. The fidelity of the data's important. The customer experience is important. That end to end has a window of opportunity. >> And I would also add two other companies reported, Microsoft and Intel and missed. So you have Amazon and Google. New guard, newer guard. Old guard Intel, Microsoft. Oracle is considered old guard even though they have some modernization going on from CX and the cloud. But Oracle is cloud a hundred percent in the cloud. Their SAP, for instance, is going multi-class. So the wild card in all this is, if the multi-cloud game evolves. >> Think end to end. End to end. Because that has advantages. When you're talking data, one of the things that Jack Brookwood said. He said, "you know why we can hit that 150 millisecond target?" >> Cause you don't have to move the data around. >> Cause sometimes we don't have to move the data around. >> This can be very interesting. And this going to be fun to watch and participate in. Of course the Cube will covering Oracle, well we'll be there again this year. We don't have the exacts specifics on that, but certainly if your interested in checking us out. Were siliconangle.com. Peter's research is at wikibon.com as well as SiliconANGLE on the front page. SiliconAngle.tv has all the videos. And well will be documenting and following the modern marketing experience with people and companies. And documenting that on the Cube and SiliconANGLE. So that's a wrap from day two at Oracle Modern CX. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Dublin, Ireland. It's theCUBE, covering Hadoop Summit Europe 2016. Brought to you by Hortonworks. Now your host, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. >> Okay, welcome back here, we are here live in Dublin, Ireland, it's theCUBE SiliconANGLEs flagship program where we go out to the events and extract the signal from the noise, I'm John Furrier, my cohost Dave Vellante, our next guest is Emer Coleman who's with Disruption Limited, Open Data Governance Board in Ireland and Transport API, a growing startup built self-sustainable, growing business, open data, love that keynote here at Hadoop Summit, very compelling discussion around digital goods, digital future. Emer, welcome to theCUBE. >> It's great to be here. >> So what was your keynote? Let's just quickly talk about what you talked about, and then we can get in some awesome conversation. >> Sure. So the topic yesterday was we need to talk about techno ethics. So basically, over the last couple of months, I've been doing quite a lot of research on ethics and technology, and many people have different interpretations of that, but yesterday I said it's basically about three things. It's about people, it's about privacy, and it's about profits. So it's asking questions about how do we look at holistic technology development that moves away from a pure technocratic play and looks at the deep societal impacts that technology has. >> One of the things that we're super excited about and passionate about is this new era of openness going to a whole another level. Obviously, open source tier one software development environment, cloud computing allows for instant access to resources, almost limitless at this point, as you can project it forward with Moore's Law and whatnot. But the notion that digital assets are not just content, it's data, it's people, it's the things you mentioned about, create a whole new operating environment or user experience, user expectations with mobile phones and Internet of Things and Transport API which you have, if it moves, you capture it, and you're providing value there. So a whole new economy is developing around digital capital. Share your thoughts around this, because this is an area that you're passionate about, you've just done work here, what's your thoughts on this new digital economy, digital capital, digital asset opportunity? >> I think there's huge excitement about the digital economy, isn't there? And I think one of the things I'm concerned about is that that excitement will lead us to the same place that we are now, where we're not really thinking through what are the equitable distribution in that economy, because it seems to me that the spoils are going to a very tiny elite at the tops. So if you look at Instagram, 13 employees when it was purchased by Facebook for a billion dollars, but that's all our stuff, so I'm not getting any shares in the billion, those 13 people are. That's fantastic that you can build a business, build it to that stage and sell, but you have to think about two things, really: what are we looking at in terms of sustainable businesses into the future that create ethical products, and also the demands from citizens to get some value for their data back, because we're becoming shadow employees, we're shadow employees of Google, so when we email, we're not just corresponding, we're creating value for that company. >> And Facebook is a great example. >> And Facebook, and the thing is, when we were at the beginning of that digital journey, it was quite naive. So we were very seduced by free, and we thought, "This is great," and so we're happy with the service. And then the next stage of that, we realize what if we're not paying for the service, we're the product? >> John: Yeah. >> But we were too embedded in the platform to extricate ourselves. But now, I think, when we look at the future of work and great uncertainty that people are facing, when their labor's not going to be required to the same degree, are we going to slavishly keep producing capital and value for companies like Google, and ask for nothing more than the service in return? I don't think so. >> And certainly, the future will be impacted, and one of the things we see now in our business of online media and online open data, is that the data's very valuable. We see that, I'll say data is the new capital, new oil, whatever phrases of the day is used, and the brand marketers are the first ones to react to it, 'cause they're very data driven. Who are you, how do I sell stuff to you? And so what we're seeing is, brand marketers are saying, "Hey, I'm going to money to try to reach out to people, "and I'm going to activate that base and connect with, "engage with them on Facebook or other platform. "I'm going to add value to your Facebook or Google platform, "but yet I'm parasitic to your platform for the data. "Why just don't I get it directly?" So again, you're starting to see that thinking where I don't want to be a parasite or parasitic to a network that the value's coming from. The users have not yet gotten there, and you're teasing that out. What's your thoughts there, progression, where we're at, have people realized this? Have you seen any movement in the industry around this topic? >> No, I think there's a silence around... Technology companies want to get all the data they can. They're not going to really declare as much as they should, because it bends their service model a bit. Also, the data is emergent. Zuckerberg didn't start Facebook as something that was going to be a utility for a billion people, he started it as a social network for a university. And what grew out of that, we learned as we went along. So I'm thinking, now that we have that experience, we know that happens, so let's start the thinking now. And also, this notion of just taking data because you can, almost speculatively getting data at the point of source, without even knowing what you want it for but thinking, "I'm going to monetize this in the end." Jaron Lanier in his book Who Owns The Future talks about micro licensing back content. And I think that's what we need to do. We start, at the very beginning, we need to start baking in two things: privacy by design and different business models where it's not a winner takes all. It's a dialog between the user and the service, and that's iterated together. >> This idea that it's not a zero sum game is very important, and I want to go back to your Instagram and Facebook example. At its peak, I think Eastman Kodak had hundreds of thousands of employees, maybe four or five hundred, 450,000 employees, huge. Facebook has many many more photos, but maybe a few thousand employees? Wow, so all the jobs are gone, but at the same time, we don't want to be protecting the past from the future, so how do you square that circle? >> Correct, but I think what we know is that the rise of robotics and software is going to eat jobs, and basically, there's going to be a hollowing out of the middle class. You know, for sure, whether it's medicine, journalism, retail, exactly. >> Dave: It's not future, it's now. (laughs) >> Exactly. So we maybe come into a point where large swaths of people don't have work. Now, what do you do in a world where your labor is no longer required? Think about the public policy implications of that. Do we say you either fit in this economy or you die? Are we going to look at ideas which they are looking at in Europe, which is like a universal wage? And all of these things are a challenge to government, because they're going to have a citizenry who are not included in this brave new world. So some public policy thinking has to go into what happens when our kids can't get jobs. When the jobs that used to be done by people like us are done by machines. I'm not against the movement of technology, what I'm saying is there are deep societal implications that need some thinking, because if we get to a point where we suddenly realize, if all of these people who are unemployed and can't get work, this isn't a future we envisioned where robots would take all the crap jobs and we would go off to do wonderful things, like how are we going to bring the bacon home? >> It seems like in a digital world that the gap is creativity to combine technologies and knowledge. I find that it's scary when you talk about maybe micromanaging wages and things like that, education is the answer, but that's... How do you just transfer that knowledge? That's sort of the discussion that we're having in the United States anyway. >> I think some of the issue is that the technology is so, we're kind of seduced by simplicity. So we don't see the complexity underneath, and that's the ultimate aim of a technology, is to make something so simple, that complexity is masked. That's what the iPhone did wonderfully. But that's actually how society is looking now. So we're seduced by this simplicity, we're not seeing the complexity underneath, and that complexity would be about what do we do in a world where our labor is no longer required? >> And one of the things that's interesting about the hollowing of the middle class is the assumption is there's no replacements, so one of the things that could be counter argued is that, okay, as the digital natives, my daughter, she's a freshman in high school, my youngest son's eighth grade, they're natives now, so they're going to commit. So what is the replacement capital and value for companies that can be sustained in the new economy versus the decay and the darwinism of the old? So the digital darwinism aspect's interesting, that's one dilemma. The other one is business models, and I want to get your thoughts on this 'cause this is something we were teasing out with this whole value extraction and company platform issue. A company like Twitter. Highly valuable company, it's a global network of people tweeting and sharing, but yet is under constant pressure from Wall Street and investors that they basically suck. And they don't, they're good, people love Twitter, so they're being forced to behave differently against their mission because their profit motive doesn't really match maybe something like Facebook, so therefore they're instantly devalued, yet the future of someone connecting on Twitter is significantly high. That being said, I want to get your thoughts on that and your advice to Twitter management, given the fact it is a global network. What should they do? >> It's the same old capitalism, just it's digital, it's a digital company, it's a digital asset. It's the same approach, right? Twitter has been a wonderful thing. I've been a Twitter user for years. How amazing, it's played a role in the Arab Spring, all sorts of things. So they're really good, but I think you need as a company, so for example, in our company, in Transport API, we're not really looking to build to this massive IPO, we're trying to build a sustainable company in a traditional way using digital. So I think if you let yourself be seduced by the idea of phenomenal IPO, you kind of take your eye off the ball. >> Or in case this, in case you got IPOed, now you're under pressure to produce-- >> Emer: Absolutely, yeah. >> Which changes your behavior. But in Twitter's management defense, they see the value of their product. Now, they got there by accident and everyone loves it, but now they're not taking the bait to try to craft a short term solution to essentially what is already a valuable product, but not on the books. >> Yes, and also I think where the danger is, we know that their generation shifts across channel. So teenagers probably look at Facebook, I think one of them said, like an awkward family dinner they can't quite leave. But for next gen, they're just not going to go there, 'cause that's where your grandmother is. So the same is true of Twitter and Snapchat, these platforms come and go. It's an interesting phenomenon then to see Wall Street putting that much money into something which is essentially quite ephemeral. I'm not saying that Twitter won't be around for years, it may be, but that's the thing about digital, isn't it? Something else comes in and it's well, that becomes the platform of choice. >> Well, it's interesting, right? Everybody, us included, we criticize the... Michael Dell calls it the 90 day shock clock. But it's actually worked out pretty well, I mean, economically, for the United States companies. Maybe it doesn't in the future. What are your thoughts on that, particularly from a European perspective? Where you're reporting maybe twice a year, there's not as much pressure, but yet from a technology industry standpoint, companies outside the Silicon Valley in particular seem to be less competitive, why? >> For example, in our company, in Transport API, we've got some pretty heavyweight clients, we have a wonderful angel investor who has given us two rounds of investment. And it isn't that kind of avaricious absolutely built this super price. And that's allowed us to build from starting off with 2, now to a team of 10, and we're just about coming into break even, so it's doable. But I think it's a philosophy. We didn't want necessarily to build something huge, although we want to go global, but it was let's do this in a sustainable way with reasonable wages, and we've all put our own soul and money into it, but it's a different cultural proposition, I think. >> Well, the valuations always drive the markets. It's interesting too, to your point about things come and go channels, kind of reminds me, Dave and I used to joke about social networks like nightclubs, they're hot and then it's just too crowded and nobody goes there, as Yogi Bear would say. And then they shift and they go out of business, some don't open with fanfare, no one goes 'cause it's got different context. You have a contextual challenge in the world now. Technology can change things, so I want to ask you about identity 'cause there was a great article posted by the founder of the company called Secret which is one of these anonymous apps like Yik Yak and whatnot, and he shut it down. And he wrote a post, kind of a postmortem, saying, "These things come and go, they don't work, "they're not sustainable because there's no identity." So the role of identity in a social global virtual world, virtual being not just virtual reality, is interesting. You live in a world, and your company, Transport API, provides data which enables stuff and the role of identity. So anonymous versus identity, thoughts there, and that impact to the future of work? If you know who you're dealing with, and if they're present, these are concepts that are now important, presence, identity, attention. >> And that's the interesting thing, isn't it? Who controls that identity? Mark Zuckerberg said, "You only have one identity," which is what he said when he set up Facebook. You think, really? No, that's what a young person thinks. When we're older, we know. >> He also said that young people are smarter than older people. >> Yeah, right, okay. (John laughs) He could be right there, he could be right there, but we all have different identities in different parts of our lives. Who we are here, the Hadoop summit is different from what we're at home to when we're with friends. So identity is a multifaceted thing. But also, who gets to determine your identity? So I have 16 years of my search life and Google. Now, who am I in that server, compared to who I am? I am the sum total of my searches. But I'm not just the sum total of my searches, am I? Or even that contextualized, so I'll give you an example. A number of years ago I was searching for a large, very large waterproof plastic bag. And I typed it in, and I thought, "Oh my god, that sounds like I'm going to murder my husband "and try to bury him." (John and Dave laugh) It was actually-- >> John: Into the compost. >> Right, right. And I thought, "Oh my god, what does this look like "on the other side?" Now, it was actually for my summer garden furniture. But the point is, if you looked at that in an analytic way, who would I be? And so I think identity is very, you know-- >> John: Mistaken. >> Yeah, and also this idea of what Frank Pasquale calls the black box society. These secret algorithms that are controlling flows of money and information. How do they decide what my identity is? What are the moral decisions that they make around that? What does it say if I search for one thing over another? If I search constantly for expensive shoes, does that make me shallow? What do these things say? If I search for certain things around health. >> And there's a value judgment now associated with that that you're talking about, that you do not control. >> Absolutely, and which is probably linked to other things which will determine things like whether I get credit or not, but these can almost be arbitrary decisions, 'cause I have no oversight of the logic that's creating that decision making algorithm. So I think it's not just about identity, it's about who's deciding what that identity is. >> And it's also the reality that you're in, context, situations. Dark side, bright side of technology in this future where this new digital asset economy, digital capital. There's going to be good and bad, education can be consumed non-linear, new forms of consumptions, metadata, as you're pointing out, with the algorithms. Where do you see some bright spots and where do you see the danger areas? >> I think the great thing is, when you were saying software is the future. It's our present, but it's going to be even more so in our future. Some of the brightest brains in the world are involved in the creation of new technology. I just think they need to be focusing a bit more of that intellectual rigor towards the impact they're having on society and how they could do it better. 'Cause I think it's too much of a technocratic solution. Technologists say, "We can do this." The questions is, should they? So I think what we need to do is to loop them back into the more social and philosophical side of the discussion. And of course it's a wonderful thing, hopefully technology is going to do amazing things around health. We can't even predict how amazing it's going to be. But all I'm saying is that, if we don't ask the hard questions now about the downsides, we're going to be in a difficult societal position. But I'm hoping that we will, and I'm hoping that raising issues like techno ethics will get more of that discussion going. >> Well, transparency and open data make a big difference. >> Emer: Absolutely. >> Well, and public policy, as you said earlier, can play a huge role here. I wonder if you could give us your perspective on... Public policy, we're in the US most of the time, but it's interesting when we talk to customers here. To hear about the emphasis, obviously, on privacy, data location and so forth, so in the digital world, do you see Europe's emphasis and, I think, leading on those types of topics as an advantage in a digital world, or does it create friction from an economic standpoint? >> Yeah, but it's not all about economics. Friction is a good thing. There are some times when friction is a good thing. Most technologists think all friction is bad. >> Sure, and I'm not implying that it's necessarily good or bad, I'm curious though, is it potentially an economic advantage to have thought through and have policy on some of those issues? >> Well, what we're seeing here-- >> Because I feel like the US is a ticking time bomb on a lot of these issues. >> I was talking to VCs, some VC friends of mine here in the UK, and what they said they're seeing more and more, VCs asking what we call SMEs, small to medium enterprises, about their data policies, and SMEs not being able to answer those questions, and VCs getting nervous. So I think over time it's going to be a competitive advantage that we've done that homework, that we're basically not just rushing to get more users, but that we're looking at it across the piece. Because, fundamentally, that's more sustainable in the longer term. People will not be dumb too forever. They will not, and so doing that thinking now, where we work with people as we create our technology products, I think it's more sustainable in the long term. When you look at economics, sustainability is really important. >> I want to ask you about the Transport API business, 'cause in the US, same thing, we've seen some great openness of data and amazing innovations that have come out of nowhere. In some cases, unheard of entrepreneurs and/or organizations that better society for the betterment of people, from delivering healthcare to poor areas and whatnot. What has been the coolest thing, or of things you've seen come out of your enablement of the transport data. Use cases, have you seen any things that surprised you? >> It's quite interesting, because when I worked for the mayor of London as his director of digital projects, my job was to set up the London data store, which was to open all of London's public sector data. So I was kind of there from the beginning as a lobbyist, and when I was asking agencies to open up their data, they'd go, "What's the ROI?" And I'd just say, "I don't know." Because government's one and oh, I'm saying that was a chicken and egg, you got to put it out there. And we had a funny incident where some of the IT staff in transport for London accidentally let out this link, which is to the tracker net feed, and that powers the tube notice boards that says, "Your next tube is in a minute," whatever. And so the developer community went, "Ooh, this is interesting." >> John: Candy! >> Yeah, and of course, we had no documentation with it because it kind of went out under the radar. And one developer called Mathew Somerville made this map which showed the tubes on a map in real time. And it was like surfacing the underground. And people just thought, "Oh my god, that is amazing." >> John: It's illuminating. >> Yeah. It didn't do anything, but it showed the possibility. The newspapers picked it up, it was absolutely brilliant example, and the guy made it in half a day. And that was the first time people saw their transport system kind of differently. So that was amazing, and then we've seen hundreds of different applications that are being built all the time. And what we're also seeing is integration of transport data with other things, so one of our clients in Transport API is called Toothpick, and they're an online dental booking agency. And so you can go online, you can book your dental appointment with your NHS dentist, and then they bake in transport information to tell you how to get there. So we have pubs using them, and screens so people can order their dinner, and then they say, "You've got 10 minutes till the next bus." So all sorts of cross-platform applications. >> That you never could've envisioned. >> Emer: Never. >> And it's just your point earlier about it's not a zero sum game, you're giving so many ways to create value. >> Emer: Right, right. >> Again, I come back to this notion of education and creativity in the United States education system, so unattainable for so many people, and that's a real concern, and you're seeing the middle class get hollowed out. I think the stat is, the average wage in the United States was 55,000 in 1999, it's 50,000 today. The political campaigns are obviously picking at that scab. What's the climate like in Europe from that standpoint? >> In terms of education? >> No, just in terms of, yes, the education, middle class getting hollowed out, the sentiment around that. >> I don't think people are up to speed with that yet, I really don't think that they're aware of the scale. I think when they think robots or automation, they don't really think software. They think robots like there were in the movies, that would come, as I say, and do those jobs nobody wanted. But not like software. So when I say to them, look, E-discovery software, when it's applied retrospectively, what it shows is that human lawyers are only 60% accurate compared to it. Now, that's a no-brainer, right? If software is 100% accurate, I'm going to use the software. And the ratio difference is 1 to 500. Where you needed 500 lawyers before you need 1. So I don't think people are across the scale of change. >> But it's interesting, you're flying to Heathrow, you fly in and out, you're dealing with a kiosk. You drive out, the billboards are all electronic. There aren't guys doing this anymore. So it's tangible. >> And I think, to your point about education, I'm not as familiar with the education system in the US, but I certainly think, in Europe and in the UK, the education system is not capable of dealing even with the latest digital natives. They're still structuring their classrooms in the same way. These kids, you know-- >> John: They have missed the line with the technology. >> Absolutely. >> So reading, writing and arithmetic, fine. And the cost of education is maybe acceptable. But they may be teaching the wrong thing. >> Asynchronous non-linear, is the thing. >> There's a wonderful example of an Indian academic called Sugata Mitra, who has a fabulous project called a Hole in the Wall. And he goes to non-English speaking little Indian villages, and he builds a computer, and he puts a roof over it so only the children can do it. They don't speak English. And he came back, and he leaves a little bit of stuff they have to get around before they can play a game. And he came back six months later, and he said to them, "What did you think?" And one of the children said, "We need a faster CPU and a better mouse." Now, his point is self-learning, once you have access to technology, is amazing, and I think we have to start-- >> Same thing with the non-linear consumption, asynchronous, all this, the API economy enabling new kinds of expectation and opportunities. >> And it was interesting because the example, some UK schools tried to follow his example. And six months later, they rang him up and they said, "It's not working," and he said, "What did you do?" And they said, "Well, we got every kid a laptop." He said, "That's not the point." The point was putting a scarce resource that the children had to collaborate over. So in order to get to the game, they had figure out certain things. >> I think you're right on some of these (mumbles) that no one's talking about. And Dave and I are very passionate on this, and we're actually investing in a whole new e-learning concept. But it's not about doing that laptop thing or putting courseware online. That's old workflow in a new model. Come on, old wine in a new bottle. So that's interesting. I want to get your thoughts, so a personal question to end this segment. What are you passionate about now, what are you working, outside of the venture, which is exciting. You have a lot of background going back to technology entrepreneurship, public policy, and you're in the front lines now, thought leading on this whole new wide open sea of opportunity, confusion, enabling it. What are you passionate about, what are you working on? Share with the folks that are watching. >> So one of the main things we're trying to do. I work as an associate with Ernst & Young in London. And we've been having discussions over the past couple of months around techno ethics, and I've basically said, "Look, let's see if we can get EY "to build to build an EY good governance index." Like, what does good governance look like in this space, a massively complex area, but what I would love is if people would collaborate with us on that. If we could help to draw up an ethical framework that would convene the technology industry around some ethical good governance issues. So that's what I'm going to be working on as hard as I can over the next while, to try and get as much collaboration from the community, because I think we'd be so much more powerful if the technology industry was to say, "Yeah, let's try and do this better "rather than waiting for regulation," which will come, but will be too clunky and not fit for purpose. >> And which new technology that's emerging do you get most excited about? >> Hmm. Drones. (laughter) >> How about anything with bitcoin, block chains? >> Absolutely, absolutely, block chain. Yeah, block chain, you have to say, yeah. I think, 'cause bitcoin, you know, it's worth 20 p today, it's worth 200,000 tomorrow. >> Dave: Yeah, but block chain. >> Right, right. I mean, that is incredible potentiality. >> New terms like federated, that's not a new term, but federation, universal, unification. These are the themes right now. >> Emer: Well, it's like the road's been coated, isn't it? And we don't know where it's going to go. What a time we live in, right? >> Emer Coleman, thank you so much for spending your time and joining us on theCUBE here, we really appreciate the conversation. Thanks for sharing that great insight here on theCUBE, thank you. It's theCUBE, we are live here in Dublin, Ireland. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. We'll we right back with more SiliconANGLEs, theCUBE and extracting the signal from the noise after this short break. (bright music)