>> Narrator: From the Cosmopolitan Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada, it's theCUBE, covering Coupa Inspire 2019. Brought to you by Coupa. >> Welcome to theCUBE! Lisa Martin at Coupa Inspire on the ground in Las Vegas, and I'm super super super excited to welcome Suze Orman to theCUBE! Suze, host of the Women and Money podcast. >> Suze: How much money have you lost? >> Lisa: Oprah's friends. Oh, I don't gamble. >> Oh yeah, girlfriend! >> Lisa: No way! >> Suze: I know. >> I do spend too much money on Starbucks every day and I felt I needed to confess that to you. >> Oh God! >> But I know-- >> Really? >> A million dollars in forty years, I'm going to curb my habits, Suze. >> All right, there we go, all right! >> Confessing it to you on camera. >> You have been forgiven (laughs). >> Oh thank you! So love listening to your podcast, watched your show on CNBC for a long time, Women and Money, is something that, obviously as a woman in technology, is really imperative to me and something that really captures my attention, because the pay gap is so obvious, has been for so long, but one of the things that always think when I hear you give advice, whether you're at a tech conference like we are now, or anywhere else, is so much of it is common sense that as humans, we just don't want to hear because it's easy to ignore it. >> It's, here's the thing, is that women in particular have so much on their plate, most of them have their parents they're taking care of, their husband or their spouse, their children, and they're bringing in an income. So they don't have a second to breathe. They can't, like (imitating garbled chaotic noise) all the way around. And the truth is, their husbands don't know anything more about money than they do. Men are financial fakers, I've always said that. So women are really, they want to know more, but they're really overloaded right now. So you got to give it to them in a way that they can digest it when they can. >> One of the things, being in software and tech now for 14 years, you know, when you're in a room, whatever meeting you're in, you think, "I didn't understand that." But you think, "I don't want to be the one to ask a stupid question," so you don't ask, and it's sort of the same thing in the financial situation. Somebody might be explaining something to you, and it's happened to me recently, and I'm like, "I don't understand it." But then I default, "Well, they're the expert." >> Suze: No. >> Lisa: And you're saying, >> "No, trust your guts." >> No, you have got to trust yourself more than you trust others. You know when I was seeing clients, you know what I used to do? First of all, it was mandatory that if you were married, you came in with your spouse. Now it was normally, back then, a male and a female, okay? Now, I'm like, greatest thing is it's a woman and a woman or a man and a man, but that's another thing. And the woman would go to the bathroom, because our meetings were long, and while she was at the bathroom, I would say the most complicated strategy to her husband that made no sense on any level. And I would say, "Do you understand this?" "I do." I go, "So you know, if you do this and then this, this will be the result?" "Got it." "Okay." His wife would come back and sit down, and I would then say to him, "All right, explain to your wife what I just explained to you." And he couldn't do it. So then the conversation was, "Why did you pretend to understand something that there was nothing to understand about?" What is that? So you really have to say, "I don't get it." And here's the thing: money is so easy. Money is not complicated. It really is not. Wall Street wants you to think it's complicated, so that you go ahead and hire a financial advisor, a bank-- You can do this. You can do this. But everybody is so afraid of it, they're they just, you know, and they don't want to deal with it because they're so afraid. >> Or even if we do take that step and start working with a financial planner, there's that, I call it 'conscious incompetence'. "They know what they're doing." >> Suze: They don't. >> "I'm going to let them handle it." >> Suze: They don't, they don't, they don't. I would not work with a financial advisor that wasn't at least 15 years into it. >> Lisa: Fifteen? Okay! >> Fifteen, because the past ten years the market's gone straight up. You could have been a monkey and made money in the stock market the past ten years. You want somebody who went through the recession, who's been through it all. And they've seen the ups, they've the downs, and now they can keep their calm. Don't give me a ten year track record. Give me a twenty year track record. Give me a 15 year. Start with the year that the markets crashed, and how did you do? So if you don't have an advisor that has been through all of that, danger! Number two, if they talk to you about an insurance product, universal life, whole life, variable life insurance, I'm here to tell you, that is-- don't ever ever mix insurance and investments. You want to buy life insurance policy, fine. Buy a term life insurance policy. Do not buy an insurance policy that's also an investment. Crazy out there! Crazy! >> I just heard your podcast on Women and Money, just the other day about mistakes to avoid, so of course I listened to it. I was shocked. You were saying nurses and teachers are too-- >> Suze: Are targeted. >> Lisa: Yes. >> Suze: Nurses. >> And there was this one woman who invested, I think it was like, seventy-five bucks a month, for-- >> Twenty years. >> And only made $4000! >> Yeah, and it's, I had one yesterday that wrote in, that has been doing $200 a month for twenty years, and they have no money. They have like, it's-- Anyway, just, here's the thing. If you don't know what to do, let me tell you what not to do. Do not buy a whole life, universal, or variable life insurance policy. Do not buy a variable annuity within a retirement account. Do not buy loaded mutual funds that have a letter A or B on it. Just those few things alone, great. >> So, getting back to women and money, women and technology, you know, like I mentioned a minute ago, the pay gap. We all know it. How do we, how do women, how do you advise us to to find that inner voice, to find that power to ask for the better job, the promotion, the better opportunities. How do we find that? >> You have to make those that you are dependent on a paycheck for dependent upon you. When I started the Suze Orman Show at CNBC, all right, so 2001, they offered me, it was like, "I'm not doing this show and signing for five years for whatever this little amount of money is." And since I didn't need money, it was like, "I'll do it for free." I did that show the very first year, and I did not make one penny. >> Lisa: Really? >> In one year, it became the number one show on CNBC of all CNBC-produced shows. Now, CNBC needed me. Now, CNBC paid me what I wanted. Not what I needed, what I wanted. And I got what I wanted because I came from a place of power. So women, we have to put ourselves in a position where you're powerful with your own money. And when you're powerful, and you don't need that pay raise, you don't need that job promotion, you want it, but you don't need it, you'll get it because they need you. So when you make somebody dependent upon you, you become valuable to them. And if they don't value you, then get out of there. >> That's great advice, because oftentimes people will think, "Well they can just replace me." Or we think, >> Suze: So then let them. >> "I'm not replaceable." So then, okay >> Suze: Then let them. >> What if that happens? What do I do? >> You have to be always prepared that that can happen. Because that can happen if there's a downsizing, if there's a downturn in the economy. That's why I always say, an eight month emergency fund, don't have any debt, put yourself in a situation that if anything were to happen, you get sick, you're in a car accident, and you can't work, that it's okay. It's okay! When you come from that place, then magic starts to happen. When you come from a place of, "Oh please, when was my paycheck? Is it in another two days? I need it. It's another two days!" So that-- Keep a car forever. You know, I have a car that's now going on eight years old. I keep my cars 10 to 13 years. I don't get a new car just because I can! I don't, what is that about? It's so, live below your means but within your needs. Only purchase needs, not wants, and get as much save pleasure out of saving as you do spending. Those three things alone will absolutely change your life. >> So, we're at a tech conference. Let's talk about tech and how do we, we're bombarded with ads all the time, we're on Instagram, and there's, "Oh, there's that cute dress I wanted." Click! And I don't have any accountability for it because all I did was tap something. I didn't see that transaction going to my bank account. How do you see technology, how do we utilize it for actually getting better control over our own financial freedom and not letting it-- >> I never ever, because I'm on the internet all the time. If an ad comes in, I immediately turn it off. I never click on an ad that has come to me. I only purchase things, and I can purchase anything I want, but I only purchase things that I go after and I look at it. Then I put it in the cart. And I don't buy it. >> Lisa: You think about it. >> And I think about, did I really want it, was it an impulse? Whatever. But you know what I found out, when I put it in the cart, a day later, I get something from them with a discount code. So if I just waited, I'm going to get it for cheaper. And so, I always thought because it's so easy, put it in your cart, and just wait a day or two before you push, yet you won't even remember it's there. >> Right, well it's a little bit of self-control. I think that's just that opening up to, and Oprah's other friend, I know you're friends with Oprah, Brene Brown taught me vulnerability is awesome! It's not weakness! It's the courage to say to your financial planner, "I don't get this." Or, to your point, if this person doesn't have fifteen years experience, and they haven't been through the tumults of the economy, "I'm sorry, I'm sure you're a great person. I need to go somewhere else because this is my money for the rest of my life!" >> You know there's a law that I live by, which is, "It's better to do nothing than something you do not understand." Now I apply it to other things in life, like I'm really into being a boat captain and fishing, but I don't go places in my boat that I don't understand how the waters work, where the ledges are. I don't venture out because I don't want to get in trouble. So it's better to do nothing than something you do not understand, and just do something else that you understand. >> And again, one of the things I love about your advice, Suze, is it's so simple. But I think as a society, we're so governed by technology. It's our alarm clock in the morning, the first thing we do is check email or Instagram, or something on .com, we're listening to podcasts. It's so easy to have a shoppable moment anywhere. Yes, it's probably just as easy-- >> And it's going to be a whole lot easier as time and artificial intelligence and everything takes over, it's going to be really easy. So the question is, "Do you want to have things, or do you want to have money? What do you want?" >> Yeah, because you say, what is it? >> People first-- >> Both: People first, then money, then things. >> Lisa: Tell me about that. >> The reason that I did that, it's a long story as to how that came about, but when I said, "People first," I always meant women. Meant you. Do not put everybody else in front of you. Don't go buying gifts for all your friends and everybody when you have absolutely no money. Put yourself first for once. Next is money. You want more money in your bank account than things that you have in your closet. So make your priorities. Those are your priorities. Put yourself first, then your money, and then if you have those things together, then if you want to buy things, okay. >> I love it. "People first, then money, then things." So you've been doing this for so long, and before we went live I was asking you, "How do you not clunk people's heads together because sometimes it's like, 'What!'" But you're saying these are the same problems that persist over and over because people don't know. >> Well, two things. It shows you that money's not that complicated. That people still ask the same questions over and over again. There aren't all these little gadgets and these little widgets and these things. It's usually Roth 401(k), traditional 401(k)? Roth IRA, 401(k)? Credit card debt first or student loans? Saving, they're the same over and over again. And but each question, to that person, is the most important question in the world to that person. And that one person is important to me. Because if I can save or help one person change their life, that one person can go on and change this whole world. Never know who that one person's going to turn out and be. And so, I mean, if I think back on it, Fred Hasbrook, who is the man who gave me money when I worked at the >> Both: Buttercup Bakery! >> Lisa: Which isn't there anymore. >> And that one man who gave me $2000 with all these other people that took-- He, those actions, to me, created me. And I've changed millions of lives with people, with the information that I've given people. They actually changed their own life. But, so one action can change a whole world >> I love that. >> You never know who that person will be. >> Lisa: You don't. You never know. Well Suze, when are we going to do our next show together? This has been so much fun! >> I don't know, we have to come back here! It seems I'm, have you, where are you out of? >> Palo Alto, California. >> Palo Alto, well we come back there. >> Lisa: All right! All right! >> Suze: We come back there. >> Well good, I'll say I'll look forward to our next show together, Suze. >> You got it, Lise. Thank you, sweetheart, bye bye. >> Been a pleasure, thank you. For Suze Orman, I am Lisa Martin. Thank you for watching theCUBE at Coupa Inspire 19! (upbeat techno music)

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen Brought to you by Cisco >> Hey, welcome back to the cave, Lisa Martin with John Barrier. We're coming to you Live from the Computer System Museum at the third annual Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen Excited to be joined by Joycelyn Developer Advocate from Postman Joyce Welcome to the Q Thank you. So you are a developer advocate. But postman is a tool that helps the community learn about Cisco ap eyes Postman is a Cisco was a customer of yours but a little bit about your experience at definite cry Because you have an interesting story from last year, which was your first year of this event >> Exactly last year. We just happen to stop by. And as I was walking through this very room you hear all these workshops going on behind us My ears perked up cause I heard somebody say python in postman or two of most powerful tools And I was like, Hey, I >> work a postman >> So I like, stopped in to see and I slapped my team back immediately at the office there, really using postman to teach Cisco Technology here. >> That was surprising to you. And here you are now here a year later. Tell us some of the things that you're expecting to learn and hear and feel and see from twenty nineteen. Create. >> So this year I hear about all these people learning postman learning about tech through postman. So I'm actually giving to talks this afternoon The first talks talking about building the community because a lot of people use postman in the second talk is about using mock servers. Had a fake an AP I until you actually coded and deploy it. >> Take a minute to explain. Postman. Why is it so popular? Why Francisco jazzed about it? What are they using it for? How they bring that in take a minute to talk about what you guys do >> Well, several years ago, when postman started as a side project was primarily for developers and help developers do their day to day jobs. But we found a lot more People are interacting with technology or working at tech companies where they might not have the setup to initiate a request. AP I request, and so postman allows them tio on their desktop be able. Teo interact with the tech in a way that normally they wouldn't have the whole set up to do it. >> So So in terms of developers, what's is a freemium model? They do have a free hand leads >> premium. And I think within the last year we've scooch almost anything that used to be a paid feature down to free so you can try it out. And in fact, if you have a small business or a side project, it's it's free. >> And what's the talk track? You're gonna have to get to talks. One on community, one on serve servers. Monster. >> Yeah, So Mock service is something that I thought might be interesting to this crowd. But a lot of these people have are in charge of managing the infrastructure or supporting existing AP eyes or services that are out in the cloud. And so mock servers are a way that you can essentially mock an FBI for parallel development or to build a prototype put into >> you. And so this helps develop, get faster app up and running. And then what happens when they have to get rid of mock server and put a real server on there? They had built out the re p I. Is that what happens? >> Typically, they're spinning Oppa marks over first, and then they're building out their own servers. So, yeah, they would swap out the mock with their own. >> And what's the other talk on community? Just how did do a community open sores? What's the aspects of the community talk? >> It's kind of on >> odd topic for this kind of crowd, but a lot of people work for companies that are or work for teams where they're just trying to build, like, a sense of community or foster some sort of mission. And so just telling the Postman story and Postman was free for absolutely free for a super long time in growth has just been astronomical. >> You're six million developers on the planet working on that, but I can't say on the company's one hundred thirty million plus AP eyes. And that's all. Just since the company was established in twenty fourteen after this sort of side project that you talked about so pretty, >> pretty quick >> growth trajectory that you guys are on >> and a lot of it was word of mouth. I mean, until I came here last year and heard all the system people talking about how they're using postman. We did not know that. >> So how have how has Postman actually evolved your technology in the last year? Just since you stumbled upon? Wow, this we're actually really hot here. We are really facilitator of developers. This community that's now what five hundred eighty five thousand members strong Learn about Cisco AP eyes. I'd love to know how that has sort of catalyzed growth for postman. Well, back in the >> day, Postman started as developer first. So here's an individual developer. How can they work more effectively? But teams like Cisco you'll be lucky if you find a team of ten people these air hundreds and thousands of developers coming together to work together. So postman as a tool has shifted from focusing on on ly the developer to how do you support developers working in larger teams? >> So what? The community angle? Because one of the things that Lise and I were just talking about you she does a lot of women in tech interviews with Cube and we're building out these communities ourselves and in Silicon Valley, the old expression fake it till you make it. It's kind of a startup buzzword, but people try to fake community or by community. You really can't get away with that. In communities, communities are very fickle. A successful open source projects you've gotta contribute. You've gotta have presence. You've got to show your work to get you to the bad actors. It's >> pretty >> efficient. But things air new now in communities this modern era coming into slag, you got tools. How is community evolving? That's your perspective on this. >> That's an interesting question. I think the community you never wanted fake community absolutely agree, and something that Postman is kind of lagged on is the community's been huge, but we haven't really been involved. So around the world we have people giving workshops that we don't even know about, like around the world. And how can we support them and allow them to tell, teach things consistently and teach best practices? So I wouldn't say unfortunately, well or fortunately, we're not in the position where we have to encourage the growth, but rather just support the people that are already doing this. This >> is the pure ingredient Teo Community development, because you're enabling other people to be relevant with their communities. So you're not so much like just trying to be a community player. You're just your product enables community growth. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> You just gotta come feed >> postman as a tool. And then postman, the seeds >> of community. >> Yeah, we're healthy. >> So talk about some of the where you guys locate. How many people in your company? What's this? What numbers >> were headquartered in San Francisco. We have a huge engineering department in Bangalore where our founders air from. And I think just a few months ago, we started having distributed people. So now we're everywhere. I think we're about a hundred head count. Uh, fifty five percent of that is engineering. So where? I don't know where a >> start off. I mean, they were started hunting with number two hundred thousand companies using the technologies. We said over six million developers. How do you get a handle on to your point earlier supporting all of these groups that are out there enabling us Johnson enabling and fueling communities like Deb. Nanny? How do you start that with a one hundred person organization? >> Yeah. I'm so glad you're like, Wow, that doesn't seem like a huge organization because other people are like I thought you are way bigger than that. One thing is that we do listen to our community. And so if they're having a pain point way, try to aggregate all those voices and then come out with a cohesive road map because what might be the loudest voice for even a lot of voices might not be what's right for the tool. The other thing is, we're not open source company, but we have a ton of open source projects. So the community has again developed converters, integrations all these open source tools that for their specific workflow works for them. And actually, they're sharing with the community. >> How did you get into all this? How did you join the company? What attracted you and what's what story? >> Well, I'm in San Francisco, so I work for a tech company. I have a hodgepodge background, but I won't go into because it just sounds confusing. Some people call me the Wolverine at work. >> That's a nickname. >> Um, hopefully it's not because I'm so Harry, but because I've had many lives, so I I kind of bring a little bit of that, too. My developer advocate role, a little bit of product, A little bit of marketing, little bit of the business side. >> It's good versatility, lot of versatility. Yeah, let me ask a question. One of the things we've been covering is actually we love cloud nated. We've been covering cloud in the early days. Oh, wait. Oh, seven All the way through Love Cloud native We get that check enterprises Ha! You see Cisco using your stuff. Enterprise developers are hot right now. People are fast filling applications has got a cloud native flare to a definite create. It's also gotta integrate into the classic enterprise. What's the difference in your view and your experience, your observations between enterprise developers and then your classic You know, hard core cloud native developer >> I would say that's something that postman, as an organization is dealing with right now because we started developer first. Now we're finding Oh, it's a different person making these decisions. What tools should we use? Sometimes it's top down, but at the end of the day, it's always the developer that is going to support a top down decision. A developer that's going to find the utility out of certain tool. So we're shifting our focus. But not necessarily by that much. Because long as you focus developer first, it's still >> so enterprise. Kind of taking more of a classic cloud developer or native cloud native developer. You think that kind of profile you in your mind? >> Well, again, you have an enterprise developer. But what? Where's that enterprise developer going to be in two years? So we're not hanging our hat too much on Enterprise? Only now >> what do you want? The Ciscos measures of programming. The network. I mean, infrastructure is code. That's kind of a nice value proposition. Take the complexity away. What's your take on reaction toe that vision? >> I don't know what you're talking >> about. I don't know what part. >> What part of tell you are. >> Well, they're saying developers shouldn't have to configure hardware. You know, abstract the network capabilities out and make it code. So the developers just it just happens. >> Got it? Yeah, And if you think about how you Khun scale, can you scale linearly or exponentially? Enabling every developer or team to deploy their own code at their own pace with their own tools is something that allows you to scale exponentially. So things like mock servers that were talking about earlier. If I'm relying on somebody, that's my bottleneck. To spin this up with the normal workflow for the organization, that's a bottleneck. Spin up your own mock server. >> Find mock servers were great. Resource because remember the old days and mobile the emulators kind of had to have an emulator to kind of get going. Okay, that was, like five years, but similar model like, Hey, I don't need I can't build that out now. But I need to know what it's gonna look like so I can get this done. >> And that allows you to iterated at the fastest >> level at the local >> developer level. >> We've been covering the old days here in the Cube world. >> Throwback. Joyce, thanks so much for your time joining us on the cue program this morning. It a definite creed. Best of luck in your two sessions later on today. We look forward to seeing you next time. Great. Thank you. Nice to meet you for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching to keep live from Cisco Definite create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching

hi I'm Peter Burris and welcome to this week's action item once again we're broadcasting from our beautiful the cube Studios in Palo Alto California and the wiki bond team is a little bit smaller this week for variety of reasons I'm being joined remotely by Neil Raiden and Jim Kabila's how you doing guys we're doing great Peter I'd be good thank you alright and it's actually a good team what we're gonna talk about we're gonna be specifically talking about some interesting developments and 14 days or so gdpr is gonna kick in and people who are behind will find themselves potentially subject to significant fines we actually were talking to a chief privacy officer here in the US who told us that had the Equinix breach occurred in Europe after May 25 2008 eeen it would have cost or Equifax the Equifax breach it would have cost Equifax over 160 billion dollars so these are very very real types of money that we're talking about but as we started thinking about some of the implications of gdpr and when it's going to happen and the circumstances of its of its success or failure and what its gonna mean commercially to businesses we also started trying to fold in a second trend and that second trend is the role of bitcoins going to play Bitcoin has a number of different benefits we'll get into some of that in a bit but one of them is that the data is immutable and gdpr has certain expectations regarding a firm's flexibility and how it can manage and handle data and blockchain may not line up with some of those issues as well as a lot of the Braque blockchain advocates might think Jim what are some of the specifics well Peter yeah blockchain is the underlying distributed hyper ledger or trusted database underlying Bitcoin and many other things blockchain yeah you know the one of the core things about blockchain that makes it distinctive is that you can create records and append them to block change you can read from them but can't delete them or update them it's not a crud database it's essentially for you to be able to go in and you know and erase a personally identifiable information record on an EU subject is you EU citizen in a blockchain it's not possible if you stored it there in other words blockchain then at the very start because it's an immutable database would not allow you to comply with the GDP ours were quite that people have been given a right to be forgotten as what what it's called that is a huge issue that might put the big kibosh on implementation of blockchain not just for PII in the EU but really for multinational businesses anybody who does business in Europe and the core you know coordination is like you know we're disregard brexit for now like Germany and France and Italy you got to be conformant completely worldwide essentially with your in your your PII management capabilities in order to pass muster with the regulators in the EU and avoid these massive fines blockchain seems like it would be incompatible with that compliance so where does the blockchain industry go or does it go anywhere or will it shrink well the mania died because of the GDP our slap in the face probably not there is a second issue as well Jim Lise I think there is and that is blockchain is allows for anonymity which means that everybody effectively has a copy of the ledger anywhere in the world so if you've got personally identifiable information coming out of the EU and you're a member or you're a part of that blockchain Network living in California you get a copy of the ledger now you may not be able to read the details and maybe that protects folks who might implement applications in blockchain but it's a combination of both the fact that the ledger is fully distributed and that you can't go in and make adjustments so that people can be forgotten based on EU laws if I got that right that's right and then there's a gray area you can't encrypt any and every record in a blockchain and conceal it from the prying eyes of people in California or in Thailand or wherever in the EU but that doesn't delete it that's not the same as erasing or deleting so there's a gray issue and there's no clarity from the EU regulators on this what if you use secret keys to encrypt individual records PII on a blockchain and then lost the keys or deleted the keys is that effectively would that be the same as he racing the record even though those bits still be there to be unreadable none of this has really been addressed in practice and so it's all a gray area it's a huge risk factor for companies that are considering exploring uses of blockchain for managing identity and you know security and all that other good stuff related to the records of people living in EU member countries so it seems as though we have two things they're gonna have that are that are likely to happen first off it's very clear that a lot of the GDP are related regulations were written in advance of comprehending what blockchain might be and so it doesn't and GDP are typically doesn't dictate implementation styles so it may have to be amended to accommodate some of the blocks a blockchain implementation style but it also suggests that increasingly we're going to hear from a design standpoint the breaking up of data associated with a transaction so that some of the metadata associated with that transaction may end up in the blockchain but some of the actual PII related data that is more sensitive from a GDP or other standpoint might remain outside of the blockchain so the blockchain effectively becomes a distributed secure network for managing metadata in certain types of complex transactions this is is that is that in scope of what we're talking about Jim yeah I bet you've raised and alluded to a big issue for implementers there will be on chain implementations of particular data data applications and off chain implementations off chain off blockchain will probably be all the PII you know in databases relational and so forth that allow you to do deletes and updates and so forth in you know to comply with you know gdpr and so forth and similar mandates elsewhere gdpr is not the only privacy mandate on earth and then there's on chain applications that you'll word the data what data sets will you store in blockchain you mentioned metadata now metadata I'm not sure because metadata quite often is is updated for lots of reasons for lots of operational patience but really fundamentally if we look at what a blockchain is it's a audit log it's an archive potentially of a just industry fashioned historical data that never changes and you don't want it to change ideally I mean I get an audit log you know let's say in the Internet of Things autonomous vehicles crashed and so forth and the data on how they operate should be stored you know either in a black box on the devices on the cars themself and also possibly backed up to a distributed blockchain where there is a transact or there's a there they a trusted persistent resilient record of what went on that would be a perfect idea for using block chains for storing perhaps trusted timestamp maybe encrypted records on things like that because ultimately the regulators and the courts and the lawyers and everybody else will want to come back and subpoena and use those records to and analyze what went on I mean for example that's an idea where something like a block shape and simile might be employed that doesn't necessarily have to involve PII unless of course it's an individual persons car and so there's all those great areas for those kinds of applications so right now it's kind of looking fuzzy for blockchain in lots of applications where identity can be either you know where you can infer easily the infer the identity of individuals from data that may not on the face of it look like it's PII so Neal I want to come back to you because it's this notion of being able to infer one of the things that's been going on in the industry for the past well 60 years is the dream of being able to create a transaction and persist that data but then generate derivative you out of that data through things like analytics data sharing etc blockchain because it is but you know it basically locks that data away from prying eyes it kind of suggests that we want to be careful about utilizing blockchain for applications where the data could have significant or could generate significant derivative use what do you think well we've known for a long long time that if you have anonymized data in the data set that it can merge that data with data from another data set relatively easy to find out who the individuals are right you add you add DNA stuff to that eh our records surveys things from social media you know everything about people and that's dangerous because we used to think that while losing are losing our privacy means that are going to keep giving us recommendations to buy these hands and shoes it's much more sinister than that you can be discriminated against in employment in insurance in your credit rating and all sorts of things so it's it's I think a really burning issue but what does it have to do with blockchain and G GD R that's an important question I think that blockchain is a really emerge short technology right now and like all image search technologies it's either going to evolve very quickly or it's gonna wither and die I'm not going to speculate which one it's going to be but this issue of how you can use it and how you can monetize data and things that are immutable I think they're all unanswered questions for the wider role of applications but to me it seems like you can get away from the immutable part by taking previous information and simply locking it away with encryption or something else and adding new information the problem becomes I think what happens to that data once someone uses it for other purpose than putting it in a ledger and the other question I have about GD d are in blockchain is who's enforcing this one army of people are sifting through all the stated at the side use and violation does it take a breach before they have it or is there something else going on the act of participating in a blockchain equivalent to owning or or having some visibility or something into a system so I am gdpr again hasn't doesn't seem to have answers to that question Jim what were you gonna say yeah the EU and its member nations have not worked out have not worked out those issues in terms of how will you know they monitor enforcement and enforce GDP are in practical terms I mean clearly it's gonna require on the parts of Germany and France and the others and maybe you know out of Brussels there might be some major Directorate for GDP our monitoring and oversight in terms of you know both companies operating in those nations as well as overseas with European Berger's none of that's been worked out by those nations clearly that's like you know it's just like the implementation issues like blockchain are not blockchain it's we're moving it toward the end of the month with you know not only those issues networked out many companies many enterprises both in Europe and elsewhere are not GDP are ready there may be some of them I'm not gonna name names may make a good boast that they are but know nobody really knows what it needs to be ready at this point I just this came to me very clearly when I asked Bernard Marr well-known author and you know influencer and the big data space at UM in Berlin a few weeks ago at at the data works and I said Bernard you know you consult all over with big companies what percentage of your clients and without giving names do you think are really truly GDP are already perm age when he said very few because they're not sure what it means either everybody's groping their way towards some kind of a hopefully risk mitigations threatened risk mitigation strategy for you know addressing this issue well the technology certainly is moving faster than the law and I'd say an argue even faster than the ethics it's going to be very interesting to see how things play out so we're just for anybody that's interested we are actually in the midst right now of doing right now doing some a nice piece of research on blockchain patterns for applications and what we're talking about essentially here is the idea that blockchain will be applicable to certain classes of applications but a whole bunch of other applications it will not be applicable to so it's another example of a technology that initially people go oh wow that's the technology it's going to solve all problems all date is going to move into the cloud Jim you like to point out Hadoop all data and all applications are going to migrate to the doop and clearly it's not going to happen Neil the way I would answer the question is it blockchain reduces the opportunity for multiple parties to enter into opportunism so that you can use a blockchain as a basis for assuring certain classes of behaviors as a group as a community and and and B and had that be relatively audible and understandable so it can reduce the opportunity for opportunism so you know companies like IBM probably you're right that the idea of a supply chain oriented blockchain that's capable of of assuring that all parties when they are working together are not exploiting holes in the contracts that they're actually complying in getting equal value out of whatever that blockchain system is and they're not gaining it while they can go off and use their own data to do other things if they want that's kind of the in chain and out of chain notion so it's going to be very interesting to see what happens over the course of next few years but clearly even in the example that I described the whole question of gdb our compliance doesn't go away all right so let's get to some action items here Nia what's your action item I suppose but when it comes to gdpr and blockchain I just have a huge number of questions about how they're actually going to be able to enforce it and when it comes to a personal information you know back in the Middle Ages when we went to the market to buy a baby pig they put it in a bag and tied it because they wouldn't want the piglet to run away because it'd take too much trouble to find it but when you got at home sometimes they actually didn't give you a pig they gave you a cat and when you opened up bag the cat was out of the bag that's where the phrase comes from so I'm just waiting for the cat to come out of the bag I I think this sounds like a real fad that was built around Bitcoin and we're trying to find some way to use it in some other way but I'm I just don't know what it is I'm not convinced Jim oxidiser my yeah my advice for Dana managers is to start to segment your data sets into those that are forgettable under gdpr and those that are unforgettable but forgettable ones is anything that has publicly identifiable information or that can be easily aggregated into identifying specific attributes and specific people whether they're in Europe or elsewhere is a secondary issue The Unforgettable is a stuff that it has to remain inviolate and persistent and can that be deleted and so forth the stuff all the unforgettables are suited to writing to one or more locked chains but they are not kosher with gdpr and other privacy mandates and focusing on the unforgettable data whatever that might be then conceivably investigate using blockchain for distributed you know you know access and so forth but they're mine the blockchain just one database technology among many in a very hybrid data architecture you got the Whitman way to skin the cat in terms of HDFS versus blockchain versus you know you know no first no sequel variants don't imagine because blockchain is the flavor of mania of the day that you got to go there there's lots and lots of alternatives all right so here's our action item overall this week we discussed on action item the coming confrontation between gdpr which is has been in effect for a while but actually fines will start being levied after May 25th and blockchain GPR has relatively or prescribed relatively script strict rules regarding a firm's control over personally identifiable in from you have to have it stored within the bounds of the EU if it's derives from an EU source and also it has to be forgettable that source if they choose to be forgotten the firm that owns that data or administers and stewards that data has to be able to get rid of it this is in conflict with blockchain which says that the Ledger's associated with a blockchain will be first of all fully distributed and second of all immutable and that provides some very powerful application opportunities but it's not gdpr compliant on the face of it over the course of the next few years no doubt we will see the EU and other bodies try to bring blockchain and block thing related technologies into a regulatory regime that actually is administrable as as well as auditable and enforceable but it's not there yet does that mean that folks in the EU should not be thinking about blockchains we don't know it means it introduces a risk that has to be accommodated but we at least think that the that what has to happen is data managers on a global basis need to start adding to it this concept of forgettable data and unforgettable data to ensure the cake can remain in compliance the final thing will say is that ultimately blockchain is another one of those technologies that has great science-fiction qualities to it but when you actually start thinking about how you're going to deploy it there are very practical realities associated with what it means to build an application on top of a blockchain datastore ultimately our expectation is that blockchain will be an important technology but it's going to take a number of years for knowledge to diffuse about what blockchain actually is suitable for and what it's not suitable for and this question of gdpr and blockchain interactions is going to be a important catalyst to having some of those conversations once again Neil Jim thank you very much for participating in action today my pleasure I'm Peter burger I'm Peter bursts and you've been once again listening to a wiki bond action item until we talk again