>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen Brought to you by Cisco >> Hey, welcome back to the cave, Lisa Martin with John Barrier. We're coming to you Live from the Computer System Museum at the third annual Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen Excited to be joined by Joycelyn Developer Advocate from Postman Joyce Welcome to the Q Thank you. So you are a developer advocate. But postman is a tool that helps the community learn about Cisco ap eyes Postman is a Cisco was a customer of yours but a little bit about your experience at definite cry Because you have an interesting story from last year, which was your first year of this event >> Exactly last year. We just happen to stop by. And as I was walking through this very room you hear all these workshops going on behind us My ears perked up cause I heard somebody say python in postman or two of most powerful tools And I was like, Hey, I >> work a postman >> So I like, stopped in to see and I slapped my team back immediately at the office there, really using postman to teach Cisco Technology here. >> That was surprising to you. And here you are now here a year later. Tell us some of the things that you're expecting to learn and hear and feel and see from twenty nineteen. Create. >> So this year I hear about all these people learning postman learning about tech through postman. So I'm actually giving to talks this afternoon The first talks talking about building the community because a lot of people use postman in the second talk is about using mock servers. Had a fake an AP I until you actually coded and deploy it. >> Take a minute to explain. Postman. Why is it so popular? Why Francisco jazzed about it? What are they using it for? How they bring that in take a minute to talk about what you guys do >> Well, several years ago, when postman started as a side project was primarily for developers and help developers do their day to day jobs. But we found a lot more People are interacting with technology or working at tech companies where they might not have the setup to initiate a request. AP I request, and so postman allows them tio on their desktop be able. Teo interact with the tech in a way that normally they wouldn't have the whole set up to do it. >> So So in terms of developers, what's is a freemium model? They do have a free hand leads >> premium. And I think within the last year we've scooch almost anything that used to be a paid feature down to free so you can try it out. And in fact, if you have a small business or a side project, it's it's free. >> And what's the talk track? You're gonna have to get to talks. One on community, one on serve servers. Monster. >> Yeah, So Mock service is something that I thought might be interesting to this crowd. But a lot of these people have are in charge of managing the infrastructure or supporting existing AP eyes or services that are out in the cloud. And so mock servers are a way that you can essentially mock an FBI for parallel development or to build a prototype put into >> you. And so this helps develop, get faster app up and running. And then what happens when they have to get rid of mock server and put a real server on there? They had built out the re p I. Is that what happens? >> Typically, they're spinning Oppa marks over first, and then they're building out their own servers. So, yeah, they would swap out the mock with their own. >> And what's the other talk on community? Just how did do a community open sores? What's the aspects of the community talk? >> It's kind of on >> odd topic for this kind of crowd, but a lot of people work for companies that are or work for teams where they're just trying to build, like, a sense of community or foster some sort of mission. And so just telling the Postman story and Postman was free for absolutely free for a super long time in growth has just been astronomical. >> You're six million developers on the planet working on that, but I can't say on the company's one hundred thirty million plus AP eyes. And that's all. Just since the company was established in twenty fourteen after this sort of side project that you talked about so pretty, >> pretty quick >> growth trajectory that you guys are on >> and a lot of it was word of mouth. I mean, until I came here last year and heard all the system people talking about how they're using postman. We did not know that. >> So how have how has Postman actually evolved your technology in the last year? Just since you stumbled upon? Wow, this we're actually really hot here. We are really facilitator of developers. This community that's now what five hundred eighty five thousand members strong Learn about Cisco AP eyes. I'd love to know how that has sort of catalyzed growth for postman. Well, back in the >> day, Postman started as developer first. So here's an individual developer. How can they work more effectively? But teams like Cisco you'll be lucky if you find a team of ten people these air hundreds and thousands of developers coming together to work together. So postman as a tool has shifted from focusing on on ly the developer to how do you support developers working in larger teams? >> So what? The community angle? Because one of the things that Lise and I were just talking about you she does a lot of women in tech interviews with Cube and we're building out these communities ourselves and in Silicon Valley, the old expression fake it till you make it. It's kind of a startup buzzword, but people try to fake community or by community. You really can't get away with that. In communities, communities are very fickle. A successful open source projects you've gotta contribute. You've gotta have presence. You've got to show your work to get you to the bad actors. It's >> pretty >> efficient. But things air new now in communities this modern era coming into slag, you got tools. How is community evolving? That's your perspective on this. >> That's an interesting question. I think the community you never wanted fake community absolutely agree, and something that Postman is kind of lagged on is the community's been huge, but we haven't really been involved. So around the world we have people giving workshops that we don't even know about, like around the world. And how can we support them and allow them to tell, teach things consistently and teach best practices? So I wouldn't say unfortunately, well or fortunately, we're not in the position where we have to encourage the growth, but rather just support the people that are already doing this. This >> is the pure ingredient Teo Community development, because you're enabling other people to be relevant with their communities. So you're not so much like just trying to be a community player. You're just your product enables community growth. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> You just gotta come feed >> postman as a tool. And then postman, the seeds >> of community. >> Yeah, we're healthy. >> So talk about some of the where you guys locate. How many people in your company? What's this? What numbers >> were headquartered in San Francisco. We have a huge engineering department in Bangalore where our founders air from. And I think just a few months ago, we started having distributed people. So now we're everywhere. I think we're about a hundred head count. Uh, fifty five percent of that is engineering. So where? I don't know where a >> start off. I mean, they were started hunting with number two hundred thousand companies using the technologies. We said over six million developers. How do you get a handle on to your point earlier supporting all of these groups that are out there enabling us Johnson enabling and fueling communities like Deb. Nanny? How do you start that with a one hundred person organization? >> Yeah. I'm so glad you're like, Wow, that doesn't seem like a huge organization because other people are like I thought you are way bigger than that. One thing is that we do listen to our community. And so if they're having a pain point way, try to aggregate all those voices and then come out with a cohesive road map because what might be the loudest voice for even a lot of voices might not be what's right for the tool. The other thing is, we're not open source company, but we have a ton of open source projects. So the community has again developed converters, integrations all these open source tools that for their specific workflow works for them. And actually, they're sharing with the community. >> How did you get into all this? How did you join the company? What attracted you and what's what story? >> Well, I'm in San Francisco, so I work for a tech company. I have a hodgepodge background, but I won't go into because it just sounds confusing. Some people call me the Wolverine at work. >> That's a nickname. >> Um, hopefully it's not because I'm so Harry, but because I've had many lives, so I I kind of bring a little bit of that, too. My developer advocate role, a little bit of product, A little bit of marketing, little bit of the business side. >> It's good versatility, lot of versatility. Yeah, let me ask a question. One of the things we've been covering is actually we love cloud nated. We've been covering cloud in the early days. Oh, wait. Oh, seven All the way through Love Cloud native We get that check enterprises Ha! You see Cisco using your stuff. Enterprise developers are hot right now. People are fast filling applications has got a cloud native flare to a definite create. It's also gotta integrate into the classic enterprise. What's the difference in your view and your experience, your observations between enterprise developers and then your classic You know, hard core cloud native developer >> I would say that's something that postman, as an organization is dealing with right now because we started developer first. Now we're finding Oh, it's a different person making these decisions. What tools should we use? Sometimes it's top down, but at the end of the day, it's always the developer that is going to support a top down decision. A developer that's going to find the utility out of certain tool. So we're shifting our focus. But not necessarily by that much. Because long as you focus developer first, it's still >> so enterprise. Kind of taking more of a classic cloud developer or native cloud native developer. You think that kind of profile you in your mind? >> Well, again, you have an enterprise developer. But what? Where's that enterprise developer going to be in two years? So we're not hanging our hat too much on Enterprise? Only now >> what do you want? The Ciscos measures of programming. The network. I mean, infrastructure is code. That's kind of a nice value proposition. Take the complexity away. What's your take on reaction toe that vision? >> I don't know what you're talking >> about. I don't know what part. >> What part of tell you are. >> Well, they're saying developers shouldn't have to configure hardware. You know, abstract the network capabilities out and make it code. So the developers just it just happens. >> Got it? Yeah, And if you think about how you Khun scale, can you scale linearly or exponentially? Enabling every developer or team to deploy their own code at their own pace with their own tools is something that allows you to scale exponentially. So things like mock servers that were talking about earlier. If I'm relying on somebody, that's my bottleneck. To spin this up with the normal workflow for the organization, that's a bottleneck. Spin up your own mock server. >> Find mock servers were great. Resource because remember the old days and mobile the emulators kind of had to have an emulator to kind of get going. Okay, that was, like five years, but similar model like, Hey, I don't need I can't build that out now. But I need to know what it's gonna look like so I can get this done. >> And that allows you to iterated at the fastest >> level at the local >> developer level. >> We've been covering the old days here in the Cube world. >> Throwback. Joyce, thanks so much for your time joining us on the cue program this morning. It a definite creed. Best of luck in your two sessions later on today. We look forward to seeing you next time. Great. Thank you. Nice to meet you for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching to keep live from Cisco Definite create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching