>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel, along with it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, about 65,000 here in attendance, at AWS re:Invent 2019. You're watching theCUBE, and I am Stu Miniman, the host for this seg, and happy to welcome back to our program two of our CUBE alumni. Sitting to my right is Abby Fuller, who is the principal technologist for containers and Linux, with Amazon Web Services. Sitting to her right is Deepak Singh, Vice President of Compute Services, also with AWS. Thank you so much for joining us on the program. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you for having us. >> Stu: All right, so as I said, both of you have been on the program, and boy your team's been busy. I mean, one of the things I love, first of all, there is a roadmap for many of the things that are going on. So, we do understand what's happen in the future, but, Deepak, maybe just tell us a little bit about your group and kind of the main focus, and let's start there. >> Deepak: So, my group goes beyond containers. It includes things like Linux systems, our high performance computing organization. But for the purposes of re:Invent, let's stick to the containers org. The containers org owns all of AWS's containerized products. So that includes ECS, EKS, Fargate. We also own our service mesh offering, which is App Mesh. So the way I like to think about it is, it's the right way to build applications in the modern era group, and it's a team that stays quite busy, because this is such a hot space to be in. >> Stu: All right, so we're going to talk mostly about containers, but your shirt is talking about the Linux piece. Tell us what your shirt says. >> Deepak: Ahh, yes, this is the only right way to spell AMI. Unfortunately, my previous, when I was in New York, Corey was at the table interviewing me, and I wore this just for him. >> Stu: So, so, so, if it is AMI, then we're going to spend some time talking about EKS. >> Yes. (Abby chuckling) >> And Esses. >> Yes, which one? (Deepak laughing) We will figure that. For AWS is AWS, I think, is how we will do it. So, absolutely, we're not going to talk about ontological arguments in there. But, Abby, a whole lot of new services in the container space. I want to put a pin and put Fargate to aside for a second. >> Abby: Sure. >> Cause lots of things we want to dig into there. But a lot of other things have been announced, in like the last month or so. Maybe, give us a little bit of a view. >> Yeah, I think a couple big ones for us. So, Fargate and Spot, so run on spare Fargate Capacity for up to a 70% discount off of standard Fargate pricing. (mumbling) things like vulnerability image for scanning for images on ECR. We launched, over the last few days as re:Invent, a capacity providers for ECS, which let's you run, split your traffic between on-demand and spot instances in the same cluster. We also launched something called Cluster Auto Scaler. So, some finer-grained control over how your cluster scales in on ECS. >> Stu: All right, want to take a quick step back. So , Fargate, announced a couple of years ago. >> Deepak: Yep. >> Was only first supported on ECS. Definitely, I've talked to lots of customers, very excited about it. >> Deepak: Yep. >> Maybe talk to us a little bit about how Fargate fits in the whole container discussion. >> Deepak: Yeah. >> And we'll hit with the news. >> Yeah, and, actually, a good way to think about it is from a native US standpoint. If you're a customer running containers, the way we think about our services is: You need a place to store those containers, so that's ECR. You could use your own registry, you could pick a third party one, that's fine. But most of our customers just use ECR. Then you pick your containers carrier. That's either ECS or EKS depending on your preferences. And then you need to figure out where you want to run your containers. And, of course, when we launched ECS five years ago, at re:Invent, there was only one way to do it: On EC2 instances. And two years ago, we added in what in our mind is a cloud native natural way to run containers, which is Fargate. So Fargate serves as a runtime compute engine for containers, and you can pick your scheduler on top of it, and go make hay with your applications. So that's kind of how we think the hierarchy works, and it works pretty well for most customers. They'll start off often with EC2 and move to Fargate over time or mix and match, and it's kind of fascinating to see how many customers of ours have decided they want to be all-in on Fargate. Which is a great place to be for us. >> Stu: Okay, but the big news which actually got a good cheer in the key note yesterday, is Fargate for EKS. So what's the importance of this? >> Yeah I think (mumbling) I think it's saying we've been talking to customers about for a while and it's the ability to run your Kubernetes pods on Fargate Capacity. I think it's really speaking to folks love Kubernetes as a tool and as a community, but it can be a pretty significant lift operationally. And with Fargate they can use APIs that they want or the open source tooling that they want but they don't have to worry about provisioning and managing that EC2 capacity. >> Stu: All right, so Deepak I actually was having a conversation with a good AWS customer, yesterday, and he said he actually started out on Kubernetes before EKS existed, on AKS. And migrated over to AWS when EKS became available. And he said Fargate really interests me, but one of the main reasons he does Kubernetes is he wants to have some portability, has some concerns that, he knows what services he uses and how if he needed to move something there, what do you say to customer that says Fargate's interesting me, but I'm concerned I'm going to get locked in if I buy into this model. >> I would say that he shouldn't worry about it, because of two reasons: maybe more than two. One is: the unit in Fargate that you interact with and work on is the same unit that you interact and work on with Kubernetes in general. Which is the Kubernetes pod. It's the broadspec, it's just a pod, no difference. You can take that same pod and run it on Timbuktu cloud and it will still run. So that's part one. The other one is that he's using the same tools, he's using coup CDL. And in fact you can mix and match your Kubernetes casters. You can run 95% of the application on Fargate, and five percent of it on EC2. All they are doing is changing the part annotation, and if you decide you want to run none of it on Fargate, you just flip that and suddenly everything is running on EC2 capacity. So actually think there's that much to worry about, because it's just the same pod. It's still the same tooling, the operational model is a lot simpler. >> So Abby, we've talked to you at DockerCon, and KubeCon, simplicity is not the word that we hear when we talk about this whole container space. >> Abby: Sure. >> Traditionally. How are we doing overall? I mean, I'm watching the community here, and it's like, wait, Fargate sounds cool but where's my persistent volumes? You know, where are we in, you know give us a little bit of the road map as to where we are to make this, you know, simple and managing more of my environment. >> Yeah, I think the way that I like to look at it, right, is that we've spent, and it's not just us, but we spent a lot of time looking at things like patterns and abstractions that help make these work flows easier for developers. And I think one of the launches that's interesting in that vein is the ECS CLI version two, which we launched a few days ago. And that will help you deploy like a production ready containerized application. It'll help you with the CICD angle, it'll help you with the monitoring and the observability. So I think it's about abstracting away, and adding patterns on top to make some of these common operations and work flows really modular and repeatable, and extendable. And then it's about having the ability to customize where I need to. So being able to run on Fargate, but also to use work loads running on EC2 where I need to, and being able to mix and match, and to focus my energy where I really get any benefit from customizing, rather than having to do the whole thing from the ground up. >> Stu: You know, feedback I've gotten from my friends and the app dev community, is that hybrid is more and more becoming a standard deployment model. Obviously things like outposts and some of the other solutions from Amazon are extending the AWS model of doing things, but many of them also look at just Kubernetes, >> Deepak: Yep >> as a layer to do that. How should we be thinking of this from your solutions? >> Deepak: Yeah, so I thought without both, though, if you noticed in Andy's announcement yesterday, among the list of services available on day one were ECS and EKS. And actually app meshes well weren't on the list, but app meshes available on our post on day one as well. I think when we think about customers who want to run and stay in their own capacity and their own data centers, because EKS is built on (mumbling) Kubernetes with no modifications, the same application, as long as they're running on upstream Kubernetes, on their side, will just run on EKS. And there's a number of models that work there. A great model is the kind that SisCo is running, where they will manage it for you in both places. They become the first person you call, and on AWS it's just EKS. And on premise (mumbling) it's what SisCo has decided to build. Our pro-serf team will also help you by example. So I think there's a number of modes that work there but the key part, and it's the reason why we have stayed with (mumbling) stream Kubernetes, is we never want to make someone say, oh we can't use EKS because they're (mumbling). Somehow modified Kubernetes, and I think that is super important for us. >> Stu: Yeah, I mean Abby I know you're an active participant in the community, what do you say to people that look at Amazon, Deepak you talked a little bit about Fargate. You don't need to be concerned to the same images, so speak a little bit, maybe if you could, to Amazon's community participation, and what you're generally hearing from your customers. >> Abby: Yeah, so I think the root of it right is that we're all building with the same building blocks. I think something that Amazon has been really strong at is open sourcing primitive. So, Firecracker last year, I think was a good example. And we, I think we do really well with saying we built this to solve a problem for us, but we think you might want it too. And in terms of community support, we have been open sourcing more over the last year, we open source our road maps in November last year. We run developer previews off the GitHub road map, App Mesh has a public preview channel as well, so we've been trying to involve the community participation earlier and earlier in our product development life cycle, so that, especially with things like service mesh, where it's really pretty new, we can make sure that we have the voice of all our users and our customers, and there, as early as possible. But to get their hands on keyboards to try it out as soon as they can. >> Deepak: And actually a great example of that is, a word that Weave Works has done. Talking about people who can run Kubernetes on AWS and on premises, they have this project called "Weave Ignite" where they're basically running Kubernetes on Firecracker on premises. And then on AWS a customer just runs on EKS, as an example. And that, I think that part has been not everybody realizes that this is possible. But I think the fact that people are doing it is, excites us a lot. >> Stu: All right, I know you're both meeting with a lot of customers this week, maybe Deepak start with you. Any surprises or any misconceptions other than I know there a lot of people wearing teal shirts, with a certain pronunciation. But bring us inside some of the mind set of your customers here. >> Deepak: So actually, our conversation is very consistent. I think the community as a whole, our customer base has a whole, they all want to get to the same place. How can we move really quickly? How can we give our developers the ability to be more productive? Without putting our company at risk, having the right level of governance? Having the right controls, in place? And I think that's mainly consistent theme across the board. I guess the one thing that would be hard to remind people of a little bit, is a lot of people often think Fargate sits on top of ECS and EKS, it sits below that, and actually the fact that now there is an EKS Fargate, people understand that more quickly. Before that it was a little trickier. But other than that, I think our customers almost all. They come from different places, have very similar problems, they want developers to move quickly and develop deliver business value, and platform engineering teams that we speak to want to figure out how to get out of the way. And that's been great! >> It's interesting, Abby, I love your view point from the developer community Andy talked on stage about very much, to do true transformation, there needs to be the leadership driving things down. I'm curious what you're seeing, customers you're talked to, people you had, cause many of these tools we're talking about, you know, started in the developer world. >> Yeah, I mean there's been, like an increasing amount of curiosity around the cultural side of it. So how can I get my team to work like that? How can I get my team to ship more safely, more quickly, but getting operations out of the way? And I think you see more and more interest in that. So how can we build the tools that work the way our developers do? So we get all the thing that we want, so security and compliance and availability. The developers get what they want, which is easy work flows that match the way they want to work. So you see a lot of curiosity around that. So how do we get to the place where we can run everything on Fargate, and benefit from all the new serverless, severless style (mumbling). >> Stu: All right, real quick just give you the final word. Any websites, or events, or things that people should know when they want to learn more and get engaged? >> Yeah, I think I'd send people first and foremost to the GitHub public road maps. It is the easiest, fastest way to let us hear your voice, and what you want to see us build next. I think especially these next couple weeks coming out of re:Invent, as people start to get their hands on what we announced, think I'm really curious for them to take that back, and then be like, this is great, but here's what I want to see next. And I'd love to see that happen on the road maps. >> Yeah, about a month or so ago, maybe a couple months, we started a dedicated blog for containers on AWS site. One of the nice things about it is a lot of the contributors to that blog site are principal engineers, and engineers in our organization. For example, one of our, the principal engineers in my org are Malcolm Featonby, has a whole blog post on how should to think about scaling and best practices. I think I would encourage people who've now seen what we have, all the new services we're developing, and that's where you'll get the details on how you can use them, how we built them, and I encourage everybody to go to that blog site and check out what we're doing. >> Stu: All right, Deepak, Abby, congratulation to you and your team, great progress, and really appreciate (mumbling) are able to look at the road map, and definitely hope to catch up with you both soon. >> Abby: Thanks so much! >> Thank you so much. >> Stu: All right, I'm Stu Miniman, and back with much more, right in a second, thank for watching theCube. (Techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS reInvent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and Intel along with it's Ecosystem partners. >> Well, welcome back, everyone theCUBE's live coverage in Las Vegas for AWS reInvent. It's theCUBE's 10th year of operations, it's our seventh AWS reInvent and every year, it gets better and better and every year, we've had theCUBE at reInvent, Jerry Chen has been on as a guest. He's a VIP, Jerry Chen, now a general partner at Greylock Tier One, one of the leading global Venture capitals at Silicon Valley. Jerry, you've been on the journey with us the whole time. >> I guess I'm your good luck charm. >> (laughs) Well, keep it going. Keep on changing the game. So, thanks for coming on. >> Jerry: Thanks for having me. >> So, now that you're a seasoned partner now at Greylock. You got a lot of investments under your belt. How's it going? >> It's great, I mean look, every single year, I look around the landscape thinking, "What else could be coming? "What if we surprise this year?" What's the new trends? What both macro-trends, also company trends, like, who's going to buy who, who's going to go public? Every year, it just gets busier and busier and bigger and bigger. >> All these new categories are emerging with this new architecture. I call it Cloud 2.0, maybe next gen Cloud, whatever you want to call it, it's clear visibility now into the fact that DevOps is working, Cloud operations, large scale operations with Cloud is certainly a great value proposition. You're seeing now multiple databases, pick the tool, I think Jassy got that right in his keynote, I believe that, but now the data equation comes over the top. So, you got DevOps infrastructure as code, you got data now looking like it's going to go down that same path of data as code where developers don't have to deal with all the different nuances of how data's stored, how it's handled, where is it, warm or cold or at glacier. So, developers still don't have that yet today. Seems to be an area of Amazon. What's your take on all this? >> I think you saw, so what drove DevOps? Speed, right? It's basically how developers shows you operations, merging of two groups. So, we're seeing the same trend DataOps, right? How data engineers and data scientists can now have the same speeds developers had for the past 10 years, DataOps. So, A, what does that mean? Give me the menu of what I want like, Goldilocks, too big, too small, just right. Too hot, too cold, just right. Like, give me the storage tier, the data tier, the size I want, the temperature I want and the speed I want. So, you're seeing DataOps give the same kind of Goldilocks treatment as developers. >> And on terms of like Cloud evolution again, you've seen the movie from the beginning at VM where now through Amazon, seventh year. What jumps out at you, what do you look at as squinting through the trend lines and the fashion of the features, it still seems to be the same old game, compute memory storage and software. >> Well I mean, compute memory storage, there's an atomic building blocks of a compute, right? So, regardless of services these high level frameworks, deep down, you still have compute networking and storage. So, that's the building blocks but I think we're seeing 10th year of reInvent this kind of, it's not one size fits all but this really big fat long tail, small instances, micro-instances, server lists, big instances for like jumbo VMs, bare metal, right? So, you're seeing not one architecture but folks can kind of pick and choose buy compute by the drip, the drop or buy compute by the whole VM or whole server full. >> And a lot of people are like, the builders love that. Amazon owns the builder market. I mean, if anyone who's doing a startup, they pretty much start on Amazon. It's the most robust, you pick your tools, you build, but Steve Malaney was just on before us says, "Enterprise don't want power tools, "they're going to cut their hand off." (laughs) Right so, Microsoft's been winning with this approach of consumable Cloud and it's a nice card to play because they're not yet there with capabilities with Amazon, so it's a good call, they got an Enterprise sales force. Microsoft playing a different game than AWS because they have to. >> Sure I mean, what's football now, you have a running game, you need a passing game, right? So, if you can't beat them with the running game, you go with a passing game and so, Amazon has kind of like the fundamental building blocks or power tools for the builders. There's a large segment of population out there that don't want that level of building blocks but they want us a little bit more prescriptive. Microsoft's been around Enterprise for many many years, they understand prescriptive tools and architectures. So, you're going to become a little bit more prefab, if you will. Here's how you can actually construct the right application, ML apps, AI apps, et cetera. Let me give you the building blocks at a higher level abstraction. >> So, I want to get your take on value creations. >> Jerry: Sure. >> So, if it's still early (mumbles), it's took a lot more growth, you start to see Jassy even admit that in his keynotes that he said quote, "There are two types "of developers and customers. "People want the building blocks "or people who want solutions." Or prefab or some sort of more consumable. >> More prescriptive, yeah. >> So, I think Amazon's going to start going that way but that being said, there's still opportunities for startups. You're an investor, you invest in startups. Where do you see opportunities? If you're looking at the startup landscape, what is the playbook? How should you advise startups? Because ya know, have the best team or whatever but you look at Amazon, it's like, okay, they got large scale. >> Jerry: Yeah. >> I'm going to be a little nervous. Are they going to eat my lunch? Do I take advantage of them? Do I draft off them? There are wide spaces as vertical market's exploding that are available. What's your view on how startups should attack the wealth creation opportunity value creation? >> There, I mean, Amazon's creating a new market, right? So, you look at their list of many services. There's just like 175 services out there, which is basically too many for any one company to win every single service. So, but you look at that menu of services, each one of those services themselves can be a startup or a collection of services can be a startup. So, I look at that as a roadmap for opportunity of companies can actually go in and create value around AI, around data, around security, around observability because Amazon's not going to naturally win all of those markets. What they do have is distribution, right? They have a lot of developer mind share. So, if you're a startup, you play one or three themes. So like, one is how do I pick one area and go deep for IP, right? Like, cheaper, better, faster, own some IP and though, they're going to execute better and that's doable over and over again in different markets. Number two is, we talked about this before, there's not going to be a one Cloud wins all, Amazon's clearly in the lead, they have won most of the Cloud, so far, but it'll be a multi-Cloud world, it'll be On Premise world. So, how do I play a multi-Cloud world, is another angle, so, go deep in IP, go multi-Cloud. Number three is this end to end solution, kind of prescriptive. Amazon can get you 80% of the way there, 70% of the way there but if you're like, an AI developer, you're a CMO, you're a marketing developer, you kind of want this end to end solution. So, how can I put together a full suite of tools from beginning to end that can give me a product that's a better experience. So, either I have something that's a deeper IP play a seam between multiple Clouds or give it end to end solutions around a problem and solve that one problem for our customer. >> And in most cases, the underlay is Amazon or Azure. >> Or Google or Alley Cloud or On Premises. Not going to wait any time soon, right? And so, how do I create a single fabric, if you will that looks similar? >> I want to riff with you in real time here on theCUBE around data. So, data scale is obviously a big discussion that's starting to happen now, data tsunami, we've heard that for years. So, there's two scale benefits, horizontal scale with data and then vertical specialism, vertical scale or ya know, using AI machine learning in apps, having data, so, how do you view that? What's your reaction to the notion of creating the horizontal scale value and vertical specialism value? >> Both are a great place for startups, right? They're not mutually exclusive but I think if you go horizontal, the amount of data being created by your applications, your infrastructure, your sensors, time stories data, ridiculously large amount, right? And that's not going away any time soon. I recently did investment in ChronoSphere, 'cause you guys covered over at CUBEcon a few weeks ago, that's talking about metrics and observability data, time stories data. So, they're going to handle that horizontal amount of data, petabytes and petabytes, how can we quarry this quickly, deeply with a lot of insight? That's one play, right? Cheaper, better, faster at scale. The next play, like you said, is vertical. It's how do I own data or slice the data with more contacts than I know I was going to have? We talked about the virtual cycle of data, right? Just the system of intelligence, as well. If I own a set of data, be it healthcare, government or self-driving car data, that no one else has, I can build a solution end to end and go deep and so either pick a lane or pick a geography, you can go either way. It's hard to do both, though. >> It's hard for startup. >> For a startup. >> Any big company. >> Very few companies can do two things well, startups especially, succeed by doing one thing very well. >> I think my observation is that I think looking at Amazon, is that they want the horizontal and they're leaving offers on the table for our startups, the vertical. >> Yeah, if you look at their strategy, the lower level Amazon gets, the more open-sourced, the more ubiquitous you try to be for containers, server lists, networking, S3, basic sub straits, so, horizontal horizontal, low price. As you get higher up from like, deep mind like, AI technologies, perception, prediction, they're getting a little bit more specialized, right? As you see these solutions around retail, healthcare, voice, so, the higher up in the stack, they can build more narrow solutions because like any startup of any product, you need the right wedge. What's the right wedge in the customers? At the base level of developers, building blocks, ubiquitous. For solutions marketing, healthcare, financial services, retail, how do I find a fine point wedge? >> So, the old Venture business was all enamored with consumers over the years and then, maybe four years ago, Enterprise got hot. We were lowly Enterprise guys where no one-- >> Enterprise has been hot forever in my mind, John but maybe-- >> Well, first of all, we've been hot on Enterprise, we love Enterprise but then all of a sudden, it just seemed like, oh my God, people had an awakening like, and there's real value to be had. The IT spend has been trillions and the stats are roughly 20 or so percent, yet to move to the Cloud or this new next gen architecture that you're investing companies in. So, a big market... that's an investment thesis. So, a huge enterprise market, Steve Malaney of Aviation called it a thousand foot wave. So, there's going to be a massive enterprise money... big bag of money on the table. (laughs) A lot of re-transformations, lot of reborn on the Cloud, lot of action. What's your take on that? Do you see it the same way because look how they're getting in big time, Goldman Sachs on stage here. It's a lot of cash. How do you think it's going to be deployed and who's going to be fighting for it? >> Well, I think, we talked about this in the past. When you look to make an investment, as a startup founder or as a VC, you want to pick a wave bigger than you, bigger than your competitors. Right so, on the consumer side, ya know, the classic example, your Instagram fighting Facebook and photo sharing, you pick the mobile first wave, iPhone wave, right, the first mobile native photo sharing. If you're fighting Enterprise infrastructure, you pick the Cloud data wave, right? You pick the big data wave, you pick the AI waves. So, first as a founder startup, I'm looking for these macro-waves that I see not going away any time soon. So, moving from BaaS data to streaming real time data. That's a wave that's happening, that's inevitable. Dollars are floating from slower BaaS data bases to streaming real time analytics. So, Rocksett, one of the investors we talked about, they're riding that wave from going BaaS to real time, how to do analytics and sequel on real time data. Likewise, time servers, you're going from like, ya know, BaaS data, slow data to massive amounts of time storage data, Chronosphere, playing that wave. So, I think you have to look for these macro-waves of Cloud, which anyone knows but then, you pick these small wavelettes, if that's a word, like a wavelettes or a smaller wave within a wave that says, "Okay, I'm going to "pick this one trend." Ride it as a startup, ride it as an investor and because that's going to be more powerful than my competitors. >> And then, get inside the wave or inside the tornado, whatever metaphor. >> We're going to torch the metaphors but yeah, ride that wave. >> All right, Jerry, great to have you on. Seven years of CUBE action. Great to have you on, congratulations, you're VIP, you've been with us the whole time. >> Congratulations to you, theCUBE, the entire staff here. It's amazing to watch your business grow in the past seven years, as well. >> And we soft launch our CUBE 365, search it, it's on Amazon's marketplace. >> Jerry: Amazing. >> SaaS, our first SaaS offering. >> I love it, I mean-- >> John: No Venture funding. (laughs) Ya know, we're going to be out there. Ya know, maybe let you in on the deal. >> But now, like you broadcast the deal to the rest of the market. >> (laughs) Jerry, great to have you on. Again, great to watch your career at Greylock. Always happy to have ya on, great commentary, awesome time, Jerry Chen, Venture partner, general partner of Greylock. So keep coverage, breaking down the commentary, extracting the signal from the noise here at reInvent 2019, I'm John Furrier, back with more after this short break. (energetic electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Splunk .Conf19. Brought to you by Splunk. >> Welcome to theCUBE everybody, we're here in Las Vegas for Splunk's .Conf, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE, here with Lisa Martin for the next three days. Lisa will be here tomorrow and the next day. I'm going to be carrying it solo, this is our seventh year .Conf, Splunk's conference celebrating their 10th year. Our first guest is Melissa Zicopula, vice president of managed services of Herjavec Group. Robert's been on before, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> I always get that, Herjavec? >> Herjavec Group. >> Herjavec Group. >> Happy to be here. >> Well known for the Shark Tank, but what's really interesting about Robert and your company is that we had multiple conversations and the Shark Tanks is what he's known for in the celebrity world. >> Melissa: Yes. >> But he's a nerd, he's a geek, he's one of us! (laughing) >> He's absolutely a cyber-security expert in the field, yes. >> So tell us what's going on this year at .Conf obviously security continues to be focus you guys have a booth here, what's the message you guys are sharing, what's the story from your standpoint? >> Yeah, so we do, Herjavec we're focusing on managed security services, where information security is all we do, focusing on 24/7 threat detection, security operations and also threat management. So, we want to be able to demo a lot of our capabilities, we're powered by Splunk, our HG analytics platform uses, heavily uses Splunk on the back end. So we want to be able to showcase for our customers, our clients, our prospects different types of use cases, different types of ways to detect malicious activity, while leveraging the tool itself. >> And data we're been covering since 2013, Splunk's .Conf, it's always been a data problem, but the data problem gets bigger and bigger, there's more volume than ever before which shifts the terms to the adversaries because ransomware is at an all time high. >> Melissa: Sure. >> Data is where the value is, but that's also where the attack vectors are coming from. This isn't going away. >> Absolutely, yeah, we want to focus on not just what type of data you're ingesting into your instance but to also understand what types of log sources you're feeding into your sim today. So we have experts actually focus on evaluating the type of log sources we're bringing in. Everything from IPS, to AV, to firewall you know, solutions into the sim so that way we can build use cases those, to be able to detect different types of activity. We leverage different types of methodologies, one of them is Mitre framework, CIS top 20. And being able to couple those two together it's able to give you a better detection mechanism in place. >> I want to some kind of, clarification questions because we talked to a lot of CSOs and CIOs and and CXOs in general. >> Melissa: Sure. >> The roles are changing, but the acronyms of the providers out in the market place are specializing, some have unique focuses, some have breadth, some have depth, you guys are an MSSPP. So, MSSPP, not to be confused with an MSP. Or ISV, there's different acronyms, what is the difference between an MSSPP versus an MSP? >> Melissa: Correct, so it's, we are a MSSP, which is a Managed Security Service Provider. And what we do is just, we're focused on we're very security-centric. So information, security is all we do everything from threat detection, we even have a consulting advisory role where we're actually doing penetration exams. We're PCI compliant, obviously SOC operations are the bread and butter of our service. Whereas, other MSPs, Managed Services Providers, they can do anything from architecture, network operations in that purview. So, we're focused on more of SIM solutions, endpoint, being able to manage any of your security technologies. And also, monitor them to take a fact into the SOC. >> So you guys are very focused? >> Melissa: Very focused on security. >> Then what's the key decision point for a customer to go with you guys, and what's the supplier relationship to the buyer because they're buying everything these days! >> Melissa: Sure. >> But they want to try and get it narrowed down so the right people are in the right place. >> Melissa: Yeah, so one of the great things about Herjavec Group is we are, you know, we're vendor agnostic, we have tons of experts in, you know, expertise resources that monitor, manage different types of technologies. Whether it's Splunk and other technologies out there, we have a team of people, that are very, very, you know, centric to actually monitor and manage them. >> How big is Splunk, in relative with your services? How involved are they with the scope? >> Melissa: Over 60% of our managed clients today, utilize Splunk, they're heavy Splunk users, they also utilize Splunk ES, Splunk Core, and from a management side, they're implementing them into their service. All of the CSOs and CROs or CIOs are leveraging and using it, not just for monitoring and security but they're also using it in development environments, as well as their network operations. >> So, one of the things I've been, I won't say preaching, because I do tend to preach a lot, but I've been saying and amplifying, is that tools that have come a long in the business and there's platforms and Splunk has always kind of been that, a platform provider, but also a good tool for folks. But, they've been enabling value, you guys have built an app on Splunk, the proprietary solutions. >> Absolutely. >> Could you tell me about that because this is really where the value starts to shift, where domain expertise focused practices and services, like you guys are doing, are building on someone else's platform with data, talk about your proprietary app. >> Absolutely, so we discovered, a few years ago, was that customers needed help getting to the data faster. So we were able to build in built-in queries, you know literally one click, say if you wanted to get to a statistical side of how many data sources are logging your SIM, is the data, you know, modeling complete, you know, is there anything missing in the environment or are there any gaps that we need to fill? You're able to do it by just clicking on a couple of different, you know, buttons within the tool itself. It gives you a holistic view of not just the alerts that are firing in your environment but all the data log sources that are coming into your SIM instance. It's a one stop shop. And also, what's great about it, is that it also powers Splunk ES, so Splunk ES also has similar tools and they are, literally, I mean that tool is so great you can go in, you can look at all the alerts, you can do an audit trail, you can actually do drill-down analysis, you can actually see the type of data like PCAP analysis, to get to the, you know, the type of activity you want to get to on a granular level. So, both tools do it really well. >> So you have hooks into ES, Splunk ES? >> Yes, we can actually see, depending on the instance that it's deployed on, 'cause our app is deployed on top of Splunk for every customer's instance. They're ale to leverage and correlate the two together. >> What are some of the trends in the marketplace that you're seeing with your customers? Obviously, again, volumes are increasing, the surface area of attacks is coming in it's more than log files now, it's, you got traces, you got other metrics >> Melissa: Sure. >> Other things to measure, it's almost It's almost too many alerts, what do you-- >> Yeah, a lot of KPI's. The most important thing that any company, any entity wants to measure is the MTTD, the Mean Time To Detection, and also mean time to resolve, right? You want to be able to ensure that your teams are have everything at their fingertips to get to the answer fast. And even if there's an attack or some type of breach in their environment, to at least detect it and understand where it is so they can quarantine it from spreading. >> What's the biggest surprise that you've seen in the past two years? I mean, 'cause I look back at our interviews with you guys in 2013, no 2015. I mean, the narrative really hasn't changed global security, I mean, all the core, top line stories are there, but it just seems to be bigger. What's the big surprise for you in terms of the marketplace? >> The big surprise for me is that companies are now focusing more on cyber-hygiene. Really ensuring that their infrastructure is you know, up to par, right? Because you can apply the best tools in-house but if you're not cleaning up you know, your backyard (laughing) it's going to get tough. So now we have a lot of entities really focusing and using tools like Splunk you know, to actually analyze what's happening in their environment, to clean up their back of house, I would say and to put those tools in place so they could be effective. >> You know, that's a classic story clean up your own house before you can go clean up others, right? >> Right. >> And what a trend we've been seeing in the marketplace on theCUBE and talking to a lot of practitioners is, and channel partners and suppliers is that, they tend to serve their customers, but they don't clean up their own house and data's moving around so now with the diversity of data, they've got the fabric search, they got all kind of new tools within Splunk's portfolio. >> It's a challenge, and it could be you know, lack of resources, it just means that we have you know, they don't have the right expertise in-house so they used managed security providers to help them get there. For example, if a network, if we identify the network being flat, we can identify you know, how to help them how to be able to kind of, look at the actual security landscape and what we need to do to have good visibility in their environment from places they didn't know existed. >> What's the one, one or two things that you see customers that need to do that, they aren't doing yet? You mentioned hygiene is a trend, what are some other things that that need to be addressed, that are almost, well that could be critical and bad, but are super important and valuable? >> I think now a lot of, actually to be quite honest a lot of our clients today or anyone who's building programs, security programs are getting you know, very mature. They're adopting methodologies, like Mitre Framework, CIS Top 20, and they're actually deploying and they're actually using specific use cases to identify the attacks happening in their environment. Not just from a security-centric standpoint but also from an operations side you know, you could identify misconfigurations in your environment, you can identify things that are you know, just cleaning up the environment as well. >> So, Splunk has this thing called SOAR, Security-- >> Automation. >> Orchestration Automation Recovery, resilience whatever R, I think R stands for that. How does that fit in to your market, your app and what you guys are doing? >> So it definitely fits in basically, being able to automate the redundant, mundane types of tasks that anyone can do, right? So if you think about it, if you have a security operations center with five or 10 analysts, it might take one analyst to do a task, it might take them two or three hours, where you can leverage a tool like Phantom, any type of SOAR platform to actually create a playbook to do that task within 30 seconds. So, not only are you minimizing the amount of you know, head count to do that, you're also you know, using your consistent tool to make that function make that function you know, more, I want to say enhanced. So you can build play books around it, you can basically use that on a daily basis whether it's for security monitoring or network operations, reporting, all that becomes more streamlined. >> And the impact to the organization is those mundane tasks can be demotivating. Or, there's a lot more problems to solve so for productivity, creativity, can you give some examples of where you've seen that shift into the personnel, HR side the human resource side of it? >> Yeah, absolutely so you know, you want to be able to have something consistent in your environment, right? So you don't want others to get kind of, get bored or you know, when you're looking at a platform day in and day out and you're doing the same task everyday, you might miss something. Whereas, if you build an automation tool that takes care of the low hanging fruit, so to speak, you're able to use a human component to put your muscles somewhere else, to find some you know, the human element to actually look for any types of malicious anomalies in the environment. >> How much has teamwork become a big part of how successful companies manage a security threat landscape? >> Very, very important. I mean, you're talking about leveraging different teams on the engineering side, on the operations side, even you know, coupling that with business stakeholders. You absolutely need to get the business involved so they have an understanding of what's critical to their environment, what's critical to their business, and making sure that we're taking security, obviously seriously, which a lot of companies know already, but not impeding on the operation. So doing it safely without having to minimize impact. >> Well let's just, I got to ask you this question around kind of, doing the cutting edge but not getting bled out, bleeding edge, bleeding out and failing. Companies are trying to balance you know, being cutting edge and balancing hardcore security Signal FX is a company that Splunk bought, we've been following them from the beginning. Strong tracing, great in that cloud native environment. So cloud native with micro services is super hot in areas you know, people see with Kubernetes and so on happening, kind of cutting edge though! >> Melissa: Right. >> You don't want to be bleeding edge 'cause there's some risks there too so, how do you guys advise your clients to think about cloud native with Splunk and some of the things that they're there but as the expression goes "there's a pony in there somewhere" but it's risky still, but certainly it's got a lot of promise. >> Yeah, you know, it's all about you know, everyone's different, every environment's different. It's really about explaining those options to them what they have available, whether they go on the cloud, whether they stay on-prem, explaining them from a cost perspective, how they can implement that solution, and what the risks are involved if they had and how long that will take for them to implement it in their environment. >> Do you see a lot of clients kicking the tires in cloud native? >> A lot of customers are migrating to cloud. One, because they don't have to keep it in a data warehouse, they don't have to have somebody manage it, they don't have to worry about hardware or licenses, renewals, all that. So, it's really easy to spin up a you know, a cloud instance where they can just keep a copy of it somewhere and then configure it and manage it and monitor it. >> Melissa, great insight, and love to have you on theCUBE, I got to ask you one final question >> Melissa: Sure. >> As a, on a personal note well, personal being you're in the industry you know, I hear a lot of patterns out there, see a lot of conversations on theCUBE. One consistent theme is the word scale. Cloud brings scale to the table, data scaling, so data at scale, cloud at scale, is becoming a reality for customers, and they got to deal with it. And this also impacts the security piece of it. What are some of the things that you guys and customers are doing to kind of one, take advantage of that wave but not get buried into it? >> Absolutely, so you just want to incorporate into the management life cycle, you know you don't want to just configure then it's one and done, it's over. You want to be able to continually monitor what's happening quarter over quarter you know, making sure that you're doing some asset inventory, you're managing your log sources, you have a full team that's monitoring, keeping up with the processes and procedures, and making sure that you know, you're also partnering with a company that can can follow you you know, year over year and build that road map to actually see what you're building your program, you know. >> So here's the personal question now, so, you're on this wave, security wave. >> Melissa: Sure. >> It's pretty exciting, can be intoxicating but at the same time, it's pretty dynamic. What are you excited about these days in the industry? What's really cool that you're getting jazzed about? What's exciting you in the industry these days? >> Automation, absolutely. Automation, being able to build as many playbooks and coupling that with different types of technologies, and you know, like Splunk, right? You can ingest and you can actually, automate your tier one and maybe even a half of a tier two, right, a level two. And that to me is exciting because a lot of what we're seeing in the industry now is automating as much as possible. >> And compare that to like, five years ago in terms of-- >> Oh absolutely, you know, SOAR wasn't a big thing five years ago, right? So, you had to literally sit there and train individuals to do a certain task, their certain function. And then you had to rely on them to be consistent across the board where now, automation is just taken that to the next level. >> Yeah it's super exciting, I agree with you. I think automation, I think machine learning and AI data feeds, machine learning. >> Michelle: Right. >> Machine learning is AI, AI is business value. >> Being able to get to the data faster, right? >> Awesome, speed, productivity, creativity, scale. This is the new formula inside the security practice I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. More live coverage here for the 10th anniversary of Splunk .Conf, our seventh year covering Splunk from a start-up, to going public, to now. One of the leaders in the industry. I'm John Furrier, we'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas it's theCUBE. Covering UiPath Forward Americas 2019. Brought to you by UiPath. >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage of UiPath Forward here at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. I'm your host Rebecca Knight along with my co-host Dave Vellante. We are joined by Craig Le Clair, he is the vice president of Forrester and also the author of the book "Invisible Robots in the Quiet of the Night: How AI and Automation will Restructure the Workforce". Thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Craig: Thank you! Thanks for having me. >> And congratulations, it's already made #11 on Amazon's AI and automation bestseller list. >> Wow, it's not quite best seller but OK, that's great, thank you, it's doing well. >> So if anyone calls your book a bestseller you just take 'em on that. >> (Craig) I'll just take it. >> So it is a, it's a bleak story right now, I mean there's a lot, there's so many changes going on in the workforce and there's so much anxiety on the part of workers that they're going to lose their job that all these technologies are going to take away their their livelihood, so how are companies managing this? Are they managing it well, would you say, or is the anxiety misplaced? Give us an overview. >> Yeah, so I don't think companies are really aware of the broader implications of the automation and AI that's developing. They tend to focus on the things that companies focus on. They focus on more efficiency and productivity and so forth, and underlying that is this digital anxiety that we call it, and the fact that a lot of the jobs that we, particularly the middle class have, the working class have, are the targets of the invisible robots, and that's really the point of the invisible robot book is that there's a lot of media attention on the hardware aspects of robotics, in fact the Super Bowl last year had 10 commercials with hardware robots. But if you look at this conference you look at the number of people here. What are these people doing? They're going back to their companies and saying "You know, this UiPath, and there are other providers "in the market, we can build software robotics, "we can build bots to do some of these tasks "that a lot of these humans are doing." And while there is elevation of the human capability in spirit for many of them, there's also a comfort level in employees that do things that they have control over, have incited. And when you extract those you are left with a series of more exciting moments, perhaps, but it's not going to make you more relaxed as an employee. And then you look at the overall job numbers, and our estimates are very conservative compared to some of the other reports, that are 45, 50% of workers over 10 years being displaced. We think it's 16%, but still, when you look at just the US numbers, that's of 160 workers today, 160 million workers, that's a lot of people. >> Rebecca: It is indeed. >> So, displaced and then sort of re-targeted or? >> A percentage, >> Vaporized. >> No, no, well the 16% is the automation, is the net loss of jobs. Now in that, automation's expensive, so there are a tremendous number of new jobs that are created by the work that's been going on here. So we have a formula to calculate that for these 12 different work personas, and the work personas have different relationships to AI and automation, so you would be crossed so many knowledge workers and be very well protected for a long time. >> Rebecca: All right, there we go. >> So you're good, but... for coordinators, people that have clip boards in their hands, for those who work in cubicles, they're going to have a lot of people leaving those cubicles that aren't going to be able to migrate to other personas. And so we have a changed management issue, we need to start driving more education from the workplace through certification, and that's a really critical thing I'll talk about tomorrow, that the refresh of technology with automation is 18 months to 24 months, you can't depend on traditional education to keep up, so we need a different way to look at training and education and for many it's going to be a much better life, but there's going to be many that it will not be. >> What was the time frame for your net 16% loss? >> 10 years. >> 10 years, okay, to me a lower net loss number makes sense, and in fact if you can elongate your timeline it probably shows a net job creation, you can make that argument anyway I don't know if you. >> Craig: It's being made. >> Dave: You don't buy it though? >> I don't, the world economic foundation and others are having huge net new numbers for jobs based on AI. Some of the large integration companies that want to build AI platforms for you are talking about trillions of dollars that would be added value to the world economy, I just don't buy it, and you know the reason I wrote this book was because what's going on here is very quietly preparing to displace a lot of efforts starting with relatively small tasks, it's called task automation but then expanding to more and more work and eventually adding a level of intelligence to the task automation going on here, that's going to take a lot of jobs. And for most of those 20 million cubicle workers, they have high school educations. You know, the bigger problem is this level of anxiety, you know, you go into almost any bookstore and there's a whole section For Dummy books, and it's not, is it because we have this sort of cognitive recession or because there's a, it's because the world's getting faster and more complicated. And unless you have the digital skills to adapt to that, the digital skills gap is growing. And we need to have as much focus that you see here and energy on building automation. We need to have an equal amount of focus on the societal problems. >> Yeah, it really comes down to education, too. I mean if I were able to snap my fingers and transform the educational system, there might be a different outcome but that's very unlikely to happen. Craig, one of the things we talked about last year was you had made the statement that some of these moonshot digital transformations aren't happening for a variety of reasons but our PA is kind of a practical way to achieve automation. >> Still very true. >> Have you seen sort of a greater awareness in your client base that, "You know, hey, maybe we should dial down "some of these moonshots and just try to "pick some clear winners." >> Yeah, we have a number of prediction reports coming out from Forrester and they're all saying basically that. I'm doing reports on what I'm calling the intelligent process automation market and that's really our PA plus AI, but not all aspects of AI. You know, it's AI that you can see in ROI around, you know it's AI that deals with unstructured documents and content and email. It's not the moonshot, more transformative AI that we have been very focused on for a number of years. Now all of that's very very important. You're not going to transform your business by doing task automation even if it's a little more intelligent and handles some decision management, you still need to think about "How do I instantiate "my business algorithmically," with AI that's going to make predictions and move decision management and change the customer experience. All that's still true, as true as it was in 2014/2015, we're just seeing a more realistic pull back in terms of the invested profile. >> Well, and so we've been talking about that all day, it is taking automating processes that have been around for a long time, and you, I think identified this as one of the potential blockers before, if you get old processes that are legacy and I think you, you gave the story of "Hey, I flew out here "on American Airlines in the old SABRE system." How old are those processes, you know? We've, you know the old term "paving the cow path." So the question is, given all the hype around RPA, the valuations, et cetera, what role do you see RPA having in those sort of transformative use cases? >> Well here's the interesting thing that was, I think, somewhat accidental by the, you know what really changed from having simple desktop automation? Well you needed some place to house and essentially manage that automation, so the RPA platforms had to build a central management capability. UiPath calls that the orchestrator, others call it the control tower, but when you think of all the categories of AI none of them have a orchestration capability, so the ability to use events to link in machine intelligence and dispatch digital workers or task automation to coordinate various AI building blocks as we call them and apply it to a use case, that orchestration ability is pretty unique to the RPA platforms. So the sort of secret value of RPA is not in everything that's being talked about here but eventually is going to be as a coordinating mechanism for bringing together machine learning that'll begin in the cloud, conversational intelligence that might be in Google. Having the RPA bots work in conjunction with those. >> But if I recall, I mean that's something that you pointed out last year as well that RPA today struggles with unstructured data that... >> Well it can't do it. >> You're right, we've talked about it NLP versus RPA, RPA, given structured data, I can go after it. >> That's the RPA plus AI bit, though. I mean, you take text analytics layer, and you combine it with RPA bots and now you have the unstructured capability plus the structured capability that RPA does so well. And, with the combination of the two, you can reach. I think what the industry needs to do or the buyers of RPA need to take the pressure off this immediacy of the ROI. In a sense, that's what's driven the value. I can deploy something, I can get value in a few months but, to really make it effective and transformative you need to combine it with these AI components, that's going to take a little longer, so this sort of impatience that you see in a lot of companies, they should really step back and take a look at the more end to end capabilities and take a little hit on the ROI immediately so that you can do that. >> No, I mean I can definitely see a step function, okay, great, we've absorbed that value, we get the quick ROI, but there's, to your point there's got to be some patient capital to allow you to truly transform in order for RPA, I don't want to put words in your mouth, to live up to the hype. >> Absolutely, I totally agree. And I am still very, very high on the market, I think it's going to do extremely well. >> Well, if you look at the spending data, it's quite interesting. I mean RPA as a category is off the charts. You know, UiPath, from the, your last wave kind of took the lead but, Automation Anywhere, Blue Prism spending, even in traditional incumbents, maybe not even RPA, maybe more "process automation" like Pegasystems. Their spending data suggests that this is the rising tide lifting all boats so, my question to you is, how do you see this all shaking out? I mean, huge evaluations, the bankers are swarming around. You saw them in the media yesterday. You know, at some point there's got to be a winner takes most. The number two guy will do pretty well and then everybody else kind of consolidates. What's your outlook? >> Well, there are a lot of emerging players coming into the market and, part of my life is having to fend them off and talk to them, and the RPA wave is coming out in a week. It's going to have four new players in it. Companies like SAP. >> Well, they acquired a company right? >> They acquired and they built internally, and have some interesting approaches to the market. So you are going to see the big players come into the market. Others I won't mention that'll be in the market in a month It's getting a lot of attention. But also I think that there are domains, business domains that, the different platforms can start to specialize in. The majors, the UiPaths to the world, will be horizontal and remain that way. And depend on partners to tailor it for a particular application area. But you're going to see RPA companies come into the testing market, software testing market. You're going to see them come into the contact centers to deal with attended mode in more sophisticated ways perhaps than those that don't have that background. You're going to see tailored robots that are going to be in these robot communities that are springing up. That'll give a lot of juice to others to come into the market. >> And like you say you're going to see, we've talked about this as well Rebecca, the best of breed versus the suite, right? Whether its SAP, Inforce talking about it, I'm sure Oracle will throw its hat in the ring I mean, why not, right? Hey, we have that too. >> Well, if you're those companies that the RPA bots are feasting on, they're slowing the upgrades to your core platforms, in some ways making them less relevant, because their argument has been, let's integrate, you get self integration when you buy SAP, when you buy Oracle, when you buy these big platforms. Well, the bots actually make that argument less powerful because you can use the bots to give you that integration, as a layer, and so they're going to have to come up with some different stories I think if they're going to continue to move forward on their platforms, move them to the cloud and so forth. >> So, finally, your best advice for workers in this new landscape and how it is going to alter their working lives. And also, your best advice for companies and managers who are, as you said, maybe not quite, they're grappling with this issue but maybe not and they're not being disingenuous to workers about who's going to lose their jobs, but this idea of as they're coming to terms with understanding quite all of the implications of this new world. >> Yeah, I know, I'm presenting data tomorrow that shows that organizations, employees, and leaders are not ready and I have data to show that. They're not understanding it. My best advice, I love the concept of, it's not a Forrester concept, it's called constructive ambition. This is the ability in an employee to want to go a little bit out of the box, and learn, and to challenge themselves, and move into more digital to close that digital skills gap. And, we have to get better at, companies need to get better at identifying constructive ambition in people they're hiring, and also, ways to draw it out. And to walk these employees up the mountain in a way that's good for their career and good for the company. I can tell you, I'll tell a few stories on the main stage last night, I interviewed Walmart employees and machinists that could no longer deal with their machine because they had to put codes into it so they had to set it up with programming steps and the digital anxiety was such that they quit the job. So a clear lack of constructive ambition. On the other hand, a Walmart employee graduated from one of their 200 academies and was able to take on more and more responsibility. Somebody with no high school degree at all. She said, "I've never graduated "from anything in my life. "My kids have never seen me "succeed at anything, and I got this certification "from Walmart that said that I was doing this level "of standard work and that felt really, really good." So, you know, we, companies can take a different view towards this but they have to have some model of future of work of what it's going to look like so they can take a more strategic view. >> Well Craig, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was a really great talk. Another plug for the book, "Invisible Robots in the Quiet of the Night" you can buy it on Amazon. >> Craig: Thank you. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, stay tuned for more of theCUBE's live coverage of UiPath Forward. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Informatica World 2018. Brought to you by Informatica. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. This is theCUBE, here at Informatica World 2018 in Las Vegas. CUBE's exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier, here for the wrap-up of day two of Informatica World, wrapping up the show coverage. Peter Burris has been my co-host all week, chief analyst at Wikibon.org, SiliconANGLE and theCUBE. And Jim Kobielus, lead researcher on AI analytics, big data for Wikibon, SiliconANGLE and theCUBE as well. Guys, let's kind of analyze and dissect what we heard from the conversations. Peter and Jim, we heard from the customers, we heard from the executive management, top partners and top executives. So interesting, and Jim, you've been at the analyst one-on-ones, the keynotes. Good show, I thought it was well done, the messaging, again, continuing the brand. The 25th anniversary of Informatica. Which, that's okay for me, but it's really not 25 years old. It's really like five years old. When the private equity came in, they took the legacy and made it new. >> Well they're a continually renewed company. They're a very different company from what they were even ten years ago, and they've got a fairly aggressive roadmap in terms of evolving into the world of AI and so forth. So they continually renew, as every vendor that hopes to survive inflection points must. >> Jim, what was your takeaway from your sessions? I mean, you saw the keynote, you saw the messaging, you had a chance to sit down one-on-one and ask some tough questions. You heard the hallway conversations amongst the other analysts and customers. What's your personal takeaway? >> A personal takeaway is that Informatica understands that their future must be in the cloud and a subscription model. That means they need to get closer to their core established cloud partners, Microsoft Azure, AWS, Google. At this show, Microsoft, they had the most important new announcements at this show, were all about further integration of the new ICCS, which is the Informatica-- >> Intelligent cloud service. >> Integration and platform service offerings, into the Azure cloud. That was the most important new piece of news in terms of enabling their customers, they have many joint customers already, to bring all of their Informatica assets more completely into the Azure cloud. That was quite important. But there was of lot of showing from AWS here on the main stage and so forth. And we expect further deepening of their Informatica footprint on AWS from those customers. So a, Informatica's future and their customers' future is in public clouds, and I think Informatica knows that the prem-based deployments will decline over time. But this will be-- >> Still good now, so the migration-- >> Well it's a hybrid cloud store. They have Informatica, a strong hybrid cloud store in the same way that an IBM does, or that a Hortonworks does, because most of their customers will have hybridized, multi-cloud models for deployment of this technology for the long term, really, with an emphasis on more public deployments, and I think it's understood. >> Peter, what's your thoughts? You had some great observations and questions. I was listening to you highlighted some of the digital business imperatives that you've been observing and researching and reporting on with the team, but also these guys have been doing it themselves. Any takeaways from you on any change of landscape on digital business, the role of data, the role of the asset. What's your thoughts on that? >> Yeah, I think if we look at the 25 year history, and Jim mentioned there've been a lot of inflection points. The thing that's distinguished Informatica for years is that it always was a company that sought to serve underserved data requirements. So it started out when relational database was the rage, started out doing OLAP and new types of analytics. And then when the data warehouse became what it was it became a data integration issue. And you can kind of see Informatica's always tried to be one step ahead of the needs of hardcore data people. And I think we're saying that here too. They have got really, really smart people that went private so that they could re-tool the company and they are introducing a portfolio that is very focused on the next needs, the next rounds of needs of data people. >> That's a lot of cloud too. >> They're a data pipeline power-- >> Well I would say they're a data pipeline pure player, I think you're doing a-- >> The closest of anybody out there. >> But I think the key thing is, right now, they're at the vanguard of talking about data as an asset, what it means to present data as an asset, tools that should provide for managing data as an asset. And they have the pipeline and all the other stuff, the catalog store that they have is very tied to that. The CLAIRE store that they have is very tied to that. Data is very, very complex. And often it takes an enormous amount of manual labor. >> I think they're checking the boxes on some of the things that I've observed over the years, going back to the early Adobe days streaming data requires some machine intelligence, obviously machine learning, AI, CLAIRE, check. Ingestion of data, managing, getting it all in an intelligent, not a data lake or data swamp, in a fabric that's going to be horizontally scalable-- >> Yeah, absolutely. >> With APIs-- >> Well horizontally scalable actually means something, it means expanding out through APIs and finding new ways of leveraging data. And I think we can make a prediction here based on four years of being here, that Informatica will probably be at the vanguard of the next round of data needs. So today, we're talking about cloud versus on-premise. I wouldn't be surprised if in a year to two years Informatica isn't talking more about how IoT data gets incorporated-- >> And blockchain. >> Yeah, IoT was not mentioned, nor was blockchain, and I think those are kind of significant deficiencies in terms of what we're hearing at this show from Informatica in terms of strategic-- >> Well hold on-- >> But I've think they've got a great team and I expect to see more of that in coming years. >> Well that's a double-edged sword, when the hype's not there, they have a lot of sizzle at stake. >> When I say deficiencies, I mean in terms of strategic discussions of where they're going. I would have liked to have heard more of Peter's discussion. >> I would too, let's get to that in a second. But I want to get your reaction on the whole enterprise catalog piece. Pretty much promoted by Jerry Held, founder of INGRES, legend in the industry, Bruce Chizen, really pumping that up. Their quote was, "This is probably "the most important product." Now, is that a board perspective bias, or is that really something that you guys believe? >> That's really organic. Metadata management is their core competency, and really their core asset inside of all their applications at Informatica, and that's what the big data catalog is all about. It's not just a data catalog, it's a metadata catalog for data discovery and so forth. Everything that is done inside of the Informatica portfolio requires a central metadata repository, and I think we at Wikibon, in our recent report on the big data market, focused on the big data catalog as being one of the key pieces of infrastructure going forward in multi-cloud. You know, there's not just Informatica, there's Alation, and there's Codero, Hortonworks and IBM and others that are going deep on their big data catalogs. >> So you see that's a flagship product for these companies. >> Well let's put it this way, AI has been around since the late 1940s. The algorithms for doing AI have been around, '40s, '50s. The algorithms have been around for years. But the point is, what's occurred recently is the introduction of technology that can actually run these algorithms, that can actually sustain the algorithms against very large volumes of data. So the technology's gotten to the point where you can actually do some of this stuff. The catalog concept has been around for as long as database managers have been around. The problem was you could only build a catalog for just that database manager. The promise of building enterprise-wide catalogs, that dream has been in place for years. One of the worst two days of my life was flying back from Japan, into New York, and sitting in an IBM information model meeting for analysts. It was absolutely-- >> Was that the 40s or 50s? (laughter) >> That was in the 80s. It was absolute hell. But the point is that Informatica is now-- >> You were the prodigy. >> Yeah, I was a prodigy. Informatica is now bringing together a combination of technologies, including CLAIRE, to make it possible to actually do catalog in a very active way. And that's trend setting. >> I think they're right too. I think that's clearly, they make a good product because I've got to say, you know, watching them for five years. This is our fourth year coming to Informatica World. Our first meeting with Anil, when he was chief product officer, was 2014 and so we've seen the progression. They're right on track, and I think they have an opportunity with IoT and blockchain, but the question I want to ask you guys is, this event of about 4,000 people, not a huge big data show, but it's really all about data. There's no distractions. The fact that they can't even get a lot of IoT airtime means that there's been a lot of core discussions. >> They're really focused. >> This is not like a Strata-- >> No. >> Where everyone's marketing some tool or platform. >> These guys are down and dirty with the products. >> They are really focused on their core opportunities, and like Peter was saying, they're really focused, they're the premier, I see the data pipeline solution or platform vendor. The data pipeline is the center of the AI revolution. And so in many ways, all of the forces, all of the trends have converged to the advantage of Informatica as being the core, go-to vendor for a complete data pipeline for all your requirements, including machine learning development. >> There's one more thing. We didn't hear blockchain, we didn't hear IoT, although I bet you there's a lot of conversation, one-on-ones between customers and Informatica about some of those things. But there's one other thing we didn't hear, which I think is very telling, and speaks to some of our trends. We didn't hear open source. Open source was not once mentioned on theCUBE, except maybe you mentioned it once. >> John: You're right. >> Now, if we think about where the big data market was forged, and where it was going to always remain, was it was going to be this big, huge, open-source play. And that has not happened. Informatica, by saying, "We're going to have "a great individual product, "and a great portfolio that works together," is demonstrating that the way to show how the new compute model is going to work is to take a coherent, integrated, focused approach on how to do it. >> It's interesting, I mean we could dissect this. Open source is a great observation, because is there really open source needed if you have a pipeline thing? I'd much rather have a discussion about open data, which I think as your deal points to, is getting into hybrid cloud as fast as possible in a console. To me, that's so much more powerful than open source. >> Jim: Open APIs. >> Open APIs where I can not get locked into Azure. >> I think open source is still important, but I'll bet you that the open source, if you start looking at what these guys are doing and others like them are doing, my guess is that we'll see open source vendors saying, "Oh, so that's how you're going to do catalog. "Okay great, so let's take an open source approach "to doing that." And you know, Informatica's going to have to stay in front of that. >> They might be using some open source. It might not be a top-line message. But let's go the next level, let's go critical analysis on Informatica. What does Informatica need to do, obviously they've got a tail wind, they've got great timing with GDPR, you couldn't ask for a better time to showcase engineering data, governance and application integration across clouds than now. So they're in a good spot. Where are they strong? What do they need to work on? >> Well okay, let's just focus on GDPR, because it is three days from now for that compliance date. GDPR, I mean, Informatica's had some good announcements at this show and prior to this show, in terms of tools for discovery of all your PII and so forth, so you can catalog it in the big data catalog. What needs to be built up by them and other vendors as well, is a more fully fleshed-out, GDPR compliance platform, or portfolio, or ecosystem. There's a lot of things that are needed, like a standardized consent portal so your customers can go in, look up their PII in your big data catalog and indicate their consent or their withdrawal of consent for you to use particular pieces of data. Hortonworks a few weeks ago at their data works in Berlin, they made an announcement related to such a portal. What I'm getting at is that more vendors, including this, every big data catalog vendor needs to have in their portfolio, and will, and I predict within the next two years, a consent portal as one of several important components to enable not just GDPR compliance, but really compliance with any such privacy-- >> A subject portal that offers consent but then is verified. >> Jim: For example, but it needs to be open source. >> Here's what I'll say, John. And we had a conversation about it with Amil, the present chief product officer. I think that if Informatica, similar to what we think, is on the right path, the world is moving to an acknowledgment that data has to be treated as an asset. That tooling is required so that you can do so. And that you have to re-institutionalize work, re-organize work, and re-think, culturally, what it means to use data as an asset. >> With penalties down the road, obviously on the horizon. >> Well there are penalties, and you know, proximate like GDPRs, but also you're out of business if you don't do these kinds of penalties. But one of the things that's going to determine what's going to gate their growth is how many people will actually end up utilizing these technologies? And so if I were to have one thing that I think they absolutely have to do, we're coming out of a world that's focused on we use process, and process models and process-oriented tools to build applications. We're moving into a world where we use data, data methods, data models to build applications. This notion of a data-first world as opposed to a process-first world, Informatica has to take a lead on what it means to be data-first, tooling for data-first, building applications that are data-first, and very importantly, that's how you're going to grow your user base. >> Sajit was talking about data value, data value chains or whatever it's called. >> Supply chains. >> Data supply chains. I think there's going to be a series of data supply chains that are going to be well-formed, well-defined, and ones that are going to be dynamic. Seeing it happening now. >> And actually that's an interesting discussion, data value chains, data supply chains, but really, data monetization chains. The whole GDPR phenomenon is that your customer's PI is their property, and that you need their consent to use it, and to the extent that they give you consent. On some level, the customer's expecting a return of value to them. You know, maybe monetization. Maybe they make money, but more enterprises have to start thinking of data as a product. And then they need to license the IP from whoever owns it. >> Peter: This is a huge issue. >> And vendors like Informatica need to understand that phenomenon and bake it, as it were, into their solution portfolio. >> Either they're going to be on the right side of history on that, or the wrong side, because you're right and you just highlighted Peter's point, which is that data direction, not the process, to your point. >> Data first. >> If I own the data, it's got to be very dynamic. Okay, my final comment would be, and I mentioned this last night when we were talking, is that I think that things are clicking for them. I think they've got tail winds, I think they're smart enough on the product side. The trend is their friend. They've got the clould deals in place. They're in a nice layer in the stack where they can be that Switzerland. You've got storage vendors underneath, there's a nice data layer, so in the position, with coming over the top cloud-native Kubernetes and containers-- >> This is going to get messy fast. >> John: I didn't hear Kubernetes at all this show. >> Hold on, let me finish. This is going to be a robust Switzerland model where I don't think they can handle the onboarding of partners. I think they have a lot of partners now from their standpoint, but I think they might have an AWS factor where they're going to have to start thinking really hard about how to be efficient about onboarding partners. To your point about adoption, this is going to be a huge issue that could make or break them. They could scale the partnership model through the APIs, they could have a robust ecosystem. That could show us 15,000-- >> If they could be a magnet brand inside Azure, or a magnet brand inside AWS for how you think about building new classes of value, applications and others, with a data-first approach, then a lot of interesting things could happen. >> Yeah, they could be a magnet brand to avoid getting disintermediated by their public cloud partners because Microsoft's got a portfolio they could place with theirs. AWS has built one. >> Everybody wants this. >> Yeah, everybody wants them. >> Guys, great job. Peter, great to host with you. Jim, great to have you on, making an appearance in between your meetings, one-on-ones and the analyst stuff. >> I'm a busy man. >> That's theCUBE here, wrapping up day two of coverage here at Informatica World 2018. The trend is their friend. Data's at the center of the value proposition, and more strategic ever, data engineering, governance, application. This is all happening right now. Regulations on the horizon. A cultural shift happening. And we're out here in the open doing it, sharing the data with you. Thanks for watching Informatica World 2018. (energetic music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Narrator: Live, from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering Informatica World 2018, brought to you by Informatica. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. This is the Cube's exclusive coverage, here in Las Vegas, at the Venetian Hotel. I'm John Furrier, co-host of the Cube, with Peter Burris co-hosting with me the next two days, wall-to-wall coverage. Our next guest is Richard Cramer, who's the Chief Healthcare Strategist for Informatica World, back from last year, had a great chat. We talked about data swamps and data lakes. This year it's about governance and the enterprise. Great to see you again, thanks for coming back. >> Thanks for having me back. >> Actually, healthcare, we can go on and on. Peter and I can rant about that, but this is really where the healthcare has had data challenges always. They've had regulations. Governance, some will say, maybe, maybe not. What's different this year, for you and your conversations? We talked about data swamps last year, and data lakes. Where is it this year? What's the conversation with customers in healthcare? What's happening? >> Well I think it really is a reflection of the maturity of people using data, naturally coming from a data swamp or a data lake. How do we keep it from becoming a swamp? You govern it. And so as people start to use data, which we're really coming into our own in healthcare, governance becomes the top topic. When I start to share data, and people ask me where'd this come from, what did it mean? And I'm not able to answer that question, that's a governance problem. And so we're really starting to see enterprise data governance and compliance come to the forefront of almost every one of my conversations. >> And where is the catalyst coming from? Is it some of the regulation? Is it some of the awareness? Is it in a moment where the straw breaks the camel's back, so to speak? Where is it coming from, the governance question? >> It really is coming from an executive level, where as we start to use data, we have more executive dashboards, there's a desire to actually make data-driven decisions, both for business purposes and clinical care, if you can't explain where the data came from and why, what it means when people ask you questions, they don't trust it. And so I think it really is, as we start to really use data for the first time, it needs to be reliable and trustworthy, and that's a governance problem. It's not a tool problem, it's not an architecture problem, it's a people or process problem, and that's governance. >> Well one of the things that's true about healthcare, is healthcare has been driving the vanguard of ethics in society, for probably a few centuries now. And it's starting to happen in technology as well. I think the whole concept of GDPR is made even that much clearer, as a consequence of people actually becoming a little bit more concerned about their health information getting into the hands of people they don't want to get access to that information. How is this relationship between healthcare, ethics, and now governance, starting to affect the conversations that you're having in healthcare and beyond? >> Well I think healthcare has had HIPAA, which is all about privacy and protection of information. We've had that for a long number of years, but that was really a data element, not an appropriate use, but hey, this data, you can't share without permission. Now we're talking-- >> And it wasn't about the subject, it was about the data that you controlled. >> That's right. And now we're really talking about, and genomic data is a big part of this, is the ethical use of data. Can I use this data appropriately? If I'm doing it for your benefit, and to help you care for yourself, yeah, I think we probably can. But it's a governance challenge, right? What data do I have? What am I allowed to use it for, for what purpose? And who has consented to that? We have a similar issue that if you're a hospital that also has a health plan, and you can share data about a patient from that health plan with that hospital. But how about a competing hospital across town? Well I can't share that data, potentially, because of regulatory reasons. So really, the need to know what data you have, what policies apply to that data, and be able to consistently and authoritatively govern that data, I think is really a good example of what's driving enterprise data governance and compliance. >> So on the compliance side, when you think about outside the United States, obviously GDPR Friday kicks in. That's creating a lot of awareness. >> Yes. >> What's the impact of that, if any, to healthcare? Is it no big deal, we've been there, we can handle this? They have the data issues. What are you hearing on that front? >> So really, two-fold. First, GDPR is probably the best representation of really good stringent, proper, consumer privacy data controls that exist. So even if you're not compelled to abide by GDPR, it's a great roadmap and it's a great model to follow, 'cause it's just good data discipline. We also have the good fortune at Informatica, that some of the leading healthcare organizations in the country, are our customers, and they happen to have footprints in Europe. And so they do in fact have a GDPR challenge. Do I have a patient from the EU that's coming to my U.S.-based facility? Do I have a U.S.-based patient that's in an EU facility? Do I have an EU licensed provider? The complexity of the GDPR challenge for some of our U.S.-based healthcare customers is pretty involved, and they're acutely aware of it. So I don't think there's been anything like GDPR in terms of data protection, that's existed in healthcare. >> Yeah, that's going to change the game. I guess, my gut feeling, again, you're the expert on this, but my feeling is that it will slow things down. It's mind-boggling that, I don't know, I'm a European patient going to a U.S. hospital, now something has to happen that didn't have to happen before. Or, is that, am I getting it right? >> I think that it holds the potential to get it to slow things down, if you treat it as a one-off. If you treat it as good data architecture, and you implement a system that that's just an artifact of how you manage data, it doesn't slow anything down, I think it makes things quicker. >> John: So the mandate is go faster. >> Because it's just the priorities. >> That's right. >> Well it sets a priority, and it forces you to have a good data architecture that operates like a well-oiled machine. >> But let me explain what I mean by that, 'cause it's very consistent with what you're saying. One of the biggest challenges about data is a lot of executives don't understand it, don't know what to do with it, can't treat it as an asset. GDPR, amongst other things, is forcing a consensus around what data can be to the business, what it should not be to the business, and that's helping to set priorities so that folks, you may be right, it may be a one-off basis. People may complain about it, but if it's used as an architectural direction, it may actually accelerate because it sets a consensus about what the priorities should be. >> Yes, and where you started is exactly why. It is a universally-understood business imperative that every executive knows. And the fact that underlying it is great data architecture, well that's just a bonus, 'cause it sets the priority correctly. >> But here's my challenge on that, because to create data architecture is aspirational for many, but not feasible in a short-term. So how do they get there? And then they want to have, hey, let's have some great data architecture. But what the Hell does that even mean? Some customers might be, I know hospitals might be more advanced, but there might, well maybe not, (laughing) but again, again, so take us through that. Some people might aspire for great data architecture, but it might take time to get there. >> So great data architecture, though, this is part of the generational market shift in data. And in the past, we had data silos, and data silos are bad, we must break them down and we must centralize and control data, as a path to value. That took a heck of a long time, and actually could not really be achieved. What's changed now is we accept silos are going to exist, self-service for data consumption exists, the problem is not now how do I centralize and control data within an inch of its life, to get value, the challenge now is how do I manage enterprise data as an asset, accepting that that's the landscape? A data catalog changes everything. >> Talk about the impact of that, 'cause this is super-important. It's not centralizing the data, it's just having a catalog with visibility into the meta-data, of all that data. >> Exactly right. So before, I didn't know where all of my data was, and data security being, and I, if I don't know I have it, how the heck can I secure it? Well with a catalog, for the first time, it's straightforward, simple, and easy, to know what data I have. You actually have a chance of securing it. So the answer, that's the path to getting real value with great data architecture, without taking decades to try and centralize and control. >> It's time for dancing. Richard, we got the music coming on. Last year it was data lakes, data swamps. That's awareness. Now it's enterprise governance, the catalog looking good from you guys. Congratulations. Good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you very much. >> Alright, day one. Wrapping down, kicking off the Solutions Exhibit Hall here for Informatica World 2018. I'm John Furrier and Peter Burris. Stay tuned for more coverage, here from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. (upbeat electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from the Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Magento Imagine, 2018. Brought to you by Magento. >> Welcome back to theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin. We've had a really informative day talking all things commerce, open commerce, and digital commerce innovation at Magento Imagine 2018. I'm joined by Amanda Batista, who is the head of content marketing for Magento. Amanda, thanks so much for all your help in coordinating this. We've had a really educational day with your folks, with your customers and partners. >> Yeah, we've had a really great community. It's been wonderful to have theCUBE here, and I'm so thrilled to be able to be here with you closing out the show. >> So this is the eighth Imagine event, There's over 3000 people here. You guys had some great speakers on stage today. I'm always very excited to see female leaders on stage. >> Absolutely. >> We talked about Baked by Melissa, she was our first guest today sharing her story. You've been growing this event year over year. What is it about #LeadingTheCharge, your hashtag and message for this event, that really differentiates this eighth event from the last several? >> Well #LeadingTheCharge is a really exciting message for us because ultimately we're focused on empowering merchants and developers and really allowing them to not worry about the technology component of things. Whatever you can dream, you can do on Magento. So, #LeadingTheCharge for us here today is really about bringing people together, making connections, and really thinking about, How do you use this community? How do you tap into all these resources? How do you see people that you haven't seen in a while? It's kind of our coming out party, our big coming together. You know, #LeadingTheCharge I think means different things for different folks, but I think for us we're really aiming to empower individuals to do the work that they do really well but also come together. So I actually heard a gentleman say that part of Leading the Charge for him is a matter of making connection. It's almost stepping out as a leader and allowing other people to come together. I think #LeadingTheCharge has been a really nice message for us today and I think our speakers have really brought that to life. >> I agree and with the sentiment that we've heard. Magento started reputation-wise, helping retailers to target the online shoppers and the experiences there. We talked with Peter Sheldon today about what you guys are doing in really formalizing how you're helping businesses, B2B organizations. There's so much opportunity that's really being driven by all of us as consumers and we have this expectation that we can get anything, anywhere, anytime. >> That's right. >> And have it delivered day or night. Amazon sets the bar really high. You guys had Amazon on main stage this morning talking about the fact that there's now 100 million Prime subscribers and how half of Amazon's revenue doesn't come from products they sell, this third-party marketplace just kicks open the doors of opportunity- >> Amanda: Right. >> for businesses from small to large alike. >> Yeah, I think it's really exciting, too, because, you know we can't all compete on price. We can't all be Amazon, but I think as we're really encouraging merchants to think about, What are you offering that's special? What are you doing from a content standpoint? Obviously, content is near and dear to me, that's my bread and butter and what I've been doing for a long time, but we really think about, what are we offering people that's value-add? Is it an added catalog, is it a manual? Is it something that helps you do your job better? Is it something that helps you go back to your organization and feel celebrated and feel excited?" I think when it comes to how we're empowering people, we're really focused on, from a content perspective, enabling you to, again, not really worry about the tech component, but think about how you can innovate your business. That's really important to us. >> Well, that's one of the things that Melissa Ben-Ishay, she's product officer at Baked by Melissa Cupcakes and how- >> Amanda: Sweet it is. >> I still want, it is, and I still want a cupcake. >> Amanda: Yes! >> It was very evident when we were talking with her that she gets, because of technology, that makes things simple for folks like herself, it allows her not to just grow the business, to open more stores, to reach hundreds of thousands of people, but to do so in a way that she doesn't have to worry about the technology. >> Amanda: Right, right. >> And that really- >> That's a great example, really, for us. I think when we look at who we're looking to enable, you know, Melissa started a business ten years ago, was let go from her job and said, Let me take a passion and bring it to life with business. They had e-commerce even before they had stores. They had e-commerce before they were up and running. I think using that as a linchpin, as a springboard to really bring her business to life, delivering a hundred cupcakes on foot on the New York City subway. I'm from New York, I ride the subway, I wouldn't want to do it with a hundred cupcakes, frankly, but these are the sort of bootstrap methods that she was enabled to do not worrying about that sort of tech component, right? She's bootstraps, she only had about five founders, five people around her with her business. Really great to hear from her and I don't see any cupcakes anywhere but I'm dying for one. >> Me too! >> Or five. >> We need to get some. One of the things that you mentioned, content, earlier, in being a content marketer, look at media as an example, with Netflix and Spotify and Amazon, and what's happened to traditional media. It's now that the way a service is delivered is as important as the content >> Absolutely. >> and what we've heard a lot from your customers that have been on the program today is they have the opportunity to deliver services in a responsive way, and in a way that's really personalized, which is really key, right? As consumers, we all want to have an experience that's tailored to us, and we've heard that as sort of an enabling capability that Magento is helping. We had a gentleman from Coca-Cola on, talking about the Share a Coke experience and how that started as a program in Australia. >> Amanda: Right. >> With one bottler, then went to Europe, then became something that was focused in store, and then the consumers are going, Hey, Coca-Cola, I can't find a bottle with my name on it. And it became this really big program for them, that they had to figure out, How do we do this in the U.S. with 70 bottlers? They needed technology that would allow them to identify and have this visibility of inventory, which you guys allow them to do, but to enable their customers to have an experience with a personalized bottle of Coca-Cola. >> Right. >> Amazing how the technology opens up doors like that, and allows these businesses, whether it's something as an establishment like Coca-Cola, or a Baked by Melissa, to be able to deliver this relevant, personal experience, at the touch of a button. It's Amazing. >> Well, listen, and it's non-negotiable, right? Think about your own experiences as a consumer. Who are you shopping with? I'm shopping with brands that understand me, that know what I need, that are offering value-add. You know, you might also revolutionize the way that we view our experiences, and we really don't have patience. Like you said, we have digital, everything is very quick, and I think the experience is the differentiator. We're really focused, again, on taking the technology out of your planning equation so that you can focus on what are you offering? What are you delivering? How are you delighting? That's a big, big area of opportunity and I think what you do to delight and engage and if you're using data intelligently, and not just the nitty gritty of data, but also simple things, the way that you welcome people via email, the way you engage on Instagram. There's a number of ways to do things that don't really require a lot of planning, a lot of cost, and so in our content efforts, we're really encouraging merchants to think about that. How do you do things in a sort of home-grown way without spending a lot of time or money? We have to be agile, we have to be quick as marketers, I certainly know that, that's the world I live in, and again, it's non-negotiable. I think as a consumer, if I don't feel that you understand me, if I don't feel that you're paying attention to the things that I'm buying or not buying, I'm going somewhere else. I'm going to go to a place that makes me feel as though I'm going to be fulfilled and delighted. I think delight is such an understated thing, but we're here at the Wynn which does a wonderful job with experience and everywhere you go it's so delightful and wonderful. >> Lisa: It is delightful! >> I came back to the room last night and my computer cord was just rattled up ever so gently, and I thought, That's delightful! You know, I Instagrammed that. That's a perfect example of providing experience that is superior. >> Speaking of experience, we just had the gentleman from the Accent Group on, Mark Teperson. It was so interesting how they've taken this company down in Australia and New Zealand, with multiple, many, many, many brands of footwear. And, you know, the online and the physical world have been merging in retail for a while now, but what they're wanting to do, to click and collect, and to create this in-store experience. It was such an interesting way of thinking about and hearing from a Chief Digital Officer say, We want to be able to enable people, especially mobile first, we're sitting on the couch with these things often, but to enable them to be able to come into my store and have an experience. That word is, we heard that referenced in many different times today, the Accent Group was a great example of that, as well as when we had your V.P. of Strategy on saying, A lot of cases depending on the, whether it's B2B or B2C, it's not mobile too, it's mobile only. It's not just leveraging technology and data and analytics to understand what I want as a consumer, but it's how I want to consume it. So it's what I was saying earlier about we're seeing this level playing field of how services are delivered, equally as important as the content that you're going to deliver to me. >> Yeah, absolutely. Again, non-negotiable, right? This idea of an omni-channel experience bridging the gaps between online and in-store, like you said, we're on the couch. I almost never shop on a computer any more, right? I'm mobile, we're enabled, we have PayPal, we our credit cards saved. I think to keep that momentum going, you want it to be a seamless experience. How many times have you gone online and found that an item is supposed to be available in the store. When you go, it's not there, right? I've even done due diligence as a savvy shopper who works in retail and says, Let me call the store and make sure it's there. There's really no margin for error there, because when we talk about experience, if you do go in store, and if you do take the initiative to make that purchase and take time out of your day, right, we're all busy people. I think mobile and digital has made it easy, especially Amazon Prime revolutionized that. (mimics beeping noise) Two days, it's on your doorstep. I think as we look to see who's sort of mimicking that experience, I think an easy way to do it, is simply put, have your systems connected, ensure that things are integrated, ensure that your inventory visibility is on point. It's a non-negotiable experience, really. >> Well, Amanda, we've had a blast at Magento Imagine 2018. Our first one, looking forward to being back next year. Thank you for putting together a great array of guests. I know we've learned a ton about this. I won't look at online shopping again the same. We want to thank you for helping us have a really enlightened and delightful conversation. >> And likewise, we've loved having theCUBE. You guys have been wonderful. I've learned a great deal and it's been really nice spending this time with you. So thanks for having me, Lisa. >> Absolutely. We hope you've had a delightful experience today with us on theCUBE. We've been live at Magento Imagine 2018. Check out theCUBE.net where you can find all the replays of the segments that we filmed today. You can also find the editorial components on SiliconANGLE.com. I'm Lisa Martin for theCUBE. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think, 2018. Brought to you by IBM >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE, we are here on the floor at IBM Think 2018 in theCUBE studios, live coverage from IBM Think. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE, and we're here with Stefanie Chiras, who is the Vice President of Offering Management IBM Cognitive Systems, that's Power Systems, a variety of other great stuff, real technology performance happening with Power, it's been a good strategic bet for IBM. Stefanie, great to see you again, thanks for coming back on theCUBE. >> Absolutely, I love to be on, John, thank you for inviting me. >> When we we had a brief (mumbles) Bob Picciano, who's heading up Power and that group, one of the things we learned is there's a lot of stuff going on that's really going to be impacting the performance of things. Just take a minute to explain what you guys are offering in this area. Where does it fit into the IBM portfolio? What's the customer use cases? Where does that offering fit in? >> Yeah, absolutely. So I think here at Think it's been a great chance for us to see how we have really transformed. You know, we have been known in the market for AIX and IBMI. We continue to drive value in that space. We just GA'd on, yesterday, our new systems, based Power9 Processor chip for AIX and IBMI in Linux. So that remains a strong strategic push. Enterprise Linux. We transformed in 2014 to embrace Linux wholeheartedly, so we really are going after now the Linux base. SAP HANA has been an incredible workload where over a thousand customers run in SAP HANA. And boy we are going after this cognitive and AI space with our performance and our acceleration capabilities, particularly around GPUs, so things like unique differentiation in our NVLink is driving our capabilities with some great announcements here that we've had in the last couple of days. >> Jamie Thomas was on earlier, and she and I were talking about some of the things around really the software stack and the hardware kind of coming together. Can you just break that out? Because I know Power, we've been covering it, Doug Balog's been on many times. A lot of great growth right out of the gate. Ecosystem formed right around it. What else has happened? And separate out where the hardware innovation is and technology and what's software and how the ecosystem and people are adopting it. Can you just take us through that? >> Yeah, absolutely. And actually I think it's an interesting question because the ecosystem actually has happened on both sides of the fence, with both the hardware side and the software side, so OpenPOWER has grown dramatically on the hardware side. We just released our Power9 processor chip, so here is our new baby. This is the Power9. >> Hold it up. >> So this is our Power9 here, 8 billion transistors, 14 miles of wiring and 17 layers of metal, I mean it's a technology wonder. >> The props are getting so small we can't even show on the camera. (laughing) >> This is the Moore's Law piece that Jenny was talking about in her keynote. >> That's exactly it. But what we have really done strategically is changed what gets delivered from the CPU to more what gets delivered at a system level, and so our IO capabilities. First chip to market, delivering the first systems to market with PCIe Gen 4. So able to connect to other things much faster. We have NVLink 2.0, which provides nearly 10x the bandwidth to transport data between this chip and a GPU. So Jensen was onstage yesterday from NVIDIA. He held up his chip proudly as well. The capabilities that are coming out from being able to transport data between the power CPU and the GPU is unbelievable. >> Talk about the relationship with NVIDIA for a second, 'cause that's also, NVIDIA stocks up a lot of (mumbles) the bitcoin mining graphics card, but this is, again, one use case, NVIDIA's been doing very well, they're doing really well in IOT, self-driving cars, where data performance is critical. How do you guys play in that? What's the relationship with NVIDIA? >> Yeah, so it has been a great partnership with NVIDIA. When we launched in 2013, right at the end of 2013 we launched OpenPOWER, NVIDIA was one of the five founding members with us, Google, Mellanox, and Tyan. So they clearly wanted to change the game at the systems value level. We launched into that with we went and jointly bid with NVIDIA and Mellanox, we jointly bid for the Department of Energy when we co-named it Coral. But that came to culmination at the end of last year when we delivered the Summit and Sierra supercomputers to Oak Ridge and Lawrence Livermore. We did that with innovation from both us and NVIDIA, and that's what's driving things like this capability. And now we bring in software that exploits it. So that NVLink connection between the CPU and the GPU, we deliver software called PowerAI, we've optimized the frameworks to take advantage of that data transport between that CPU and GPU so it makes it consumable. With all of these things it's not just about the technology, it's about is it easy to consume at the software level? So great announcement yesterday with the capabilities to do logistic regression. Unbelievable, taking the ability to do advertising analytics, taking it from 70 minutes to 1 and 1/2. >> I mean we're going to geek out here. But let's go under the hood for a second. This is a really kind of a high end systems product, at the kind of performance levels. Where does that connect to the go to market? Who's the buyer of it? Is it OEMs? Is it integrators? Is it new hardware devices? How do I get involved and who's the target customer? And what kind of developers are you reaching? Can you just take us through that who's buying this product? >> So this is no longer relegated to the elite set. What we did, and I think this is amazing, when we delivered the Summit and Sierra, right? Huge cluster of these nodes. We took that same node, we pulled it into our product line as the AC922, and we delivered a 4 GPU air-cooled version to market. On December 22nd we GA'd, of last year. And we sold to over 40 independent clients by the end of 2017, so that's a short runway. And most of it, honestly, is all driven around AI. The AI adoption, and it's a cross enterprise. Our goal is really to make sure that the enterprises who are looking at AI now with their developer are ready to take it into production. We offer support for the frameworks on the system so they know that when they do development on this infrastructure, they can take it to production later. So it's very much driven toward taking AI to the enterprise, and it's all over. It's insurance, it's financial services sector. It's those kinds of enterprise that are using AI. >> So IO sensitive, right? So IOT not a target or maybe? >> So you know when we talk out to edge it's a little bit different, right? So the IOT today for us is driving a lot of data, that's coming in, and then you know at different levels-- >> There's not a lot of (mumbles) power needed at the edge. >> There is not, there is not. And it kind of scales in. We are seeing, I would say, kind of progression of that compute moving out closer. Whether or not it's on, it doesn't all come home necessarily anymore. >> Compute is being pushed to where the data is. >> Stefanie: Absolutely right. >> That's head room for you guys. Not a priority now because there's not an intense (mumbles) compute can solve that. >> Stefanie: That's right. >> All right, so where does the Cloud fit into it? You guys powering IBMs Cloud? >> So IBM Cloud has been a great announcement this year as well. So you've seen the focus here around AI and Cloud. So we announced that HANA will come on Power into the Cloud, specializing in large memory sets, so 24 terabyte memory sets. For clients that's huge to be able to exploit that-- >> Is IBM Cloud using Power or not? >> That will be in IBM Cloud. So go to IBM Cloud, be able to deploy an SAP certified HANA on Power deployment for large memory installs, which is great. We also announced PowerAI access, on Power9 technology in IBM Cloud. So we definitely are partnering both with IMB Cloud as well as with the analytics pieces. Data Science Experience available on Power. And I think it's very important, what you said earlier, John, about you want to bring the capabilities to where the data is. So things like a lot of clients are doing AI on prem where we can offer a solution. You can augment that with capabilities like Watson, right? Off prem. You can also do dev ops now with AI in the IBM Cloud. So it really becomes both a deployment model, but the client needs to be able to choose how they want to do it. >> And the data can come from multiple sources. There's always going to be latencies. So what about blockchain? I want to get to blockchain. Are you guys doing anything in the blockchain ecosystem? Obviously one complaint we've been hearing, obviously, is some of these cryptocurrency chains like Ethereum, has performance issues, they got projects coming out. A lot of open source in there. Is Power even puttin' their toe in the water with blockchain? >> We have put our toe in the water. Blockchain runs on Power. From an IBM portfolio perspective-- >> IBM blockchain runs on Power or blockchain, or other blockchains? >> Like Hyperledger. Like Hyperledger will run. So open source, blockchain will run on Power, but if you look at the IBM portfolio, the security capabilities in Z14 that that brings and pulling that into IBM Cloud, our focus is really to be able to deliver that level of security. So we lead with system Z in that space, and Z has been incredible with blockchain. >> Z is pretty expensive to purchase, though. >> But now you can purchase it in the Cloud through IBM Cloud, which is great. >> Awesome, this is the benefit of the Cloud. Sounds like soft layer is moving towards more of a Z mainframe, Power, backend? >> I think the IBM Cloud is broadening the capabilities that it has, because the workloads demand different things. Blockchain demands security. Now you can get that in the Cloud through Z. AI demands incredible compute strength with GPU acceleration, Power is great for that. And now a client doesn't have to choose. They can use the Cloud and get the best infrastructure for the workload they want, and IBM Cloud runs it. >> You guys have been busy. >> We've been busy. (laughing) >> Bob Picciano's been bunkered in. You guys have been crankin' out... love to do a deeper dive on this, Stefanie, and so we'd love to follow up with you guys, and we told Bob we would dig into that, too. Question I have for you now is, how do you talk about this group that you're building together? You know, the names are all internal IBM names, Power... Is it like a group? Do you guys call yourself like the modern infrastructure group? Is it like, what is it called, if you had to explain it to outside IBM, AIs easy, I know what AI team does. You're kind of doing AI. You're enabling AI. Are you a modern infrastructure? What is the pillar are you under? >> Yeah, so we sit under IBM systems, and we are definitely systems proud, right? Everything runs on infrastructure somewhere. And then within that three spaces you certainly have Z storage, and we empower, since we've set our sites on AI and cognitive workloads, internally we're called IBM Cognitive Systems. And I think that's really two things, both a focus on the workloads and differentiation we want to bring to clients, but also the fact that it's not just about the hardware, we're now doing software with things like PowerAI software, optimized for our hardware. There's magic that happens when the software and the hardware are co-optimized. >> Well if you look, I mean systems proud, I love that conversation because you look at the systems revolution that I grew up in, the computer science generation of the 80s, that was the open movement, BSD, pre-Linux, and then now everything about the Cloud and what's going on with AI and what I call the innovation sandwich with data in the middle and blockchain and AI as bread. >> Stefanie: Yep. >> You have all the perfect elements of automation, you know, Cloud. That's all going to be powered by a system. >> Absolutely. >> Especially operating systems skills are super imprtant. >> Super important. Super important. >> This is the foundational elements. >> Absolutely, and I think your point on open, that has really come in and changed how quickly this innovation is happening, but completely agree, right? And we'll see more fit for purpose types of things, as you mentioned. More fit for purpose. Where the infrastructure and the OS are driving huge value at a workload level, and that's what the client needs. >> You know, what dev ops proved with the Cloud movement was you can have programmable infrastructure. And what we're seeing with blockchain and decentralized web and AI, is that the real value, intellectual property, is going to be the business logic. That is going to be dealing with now a whole 'nother layer of programmability. It used to be the other way around. The technology determined >> That's right. >> the core decision, so the risk was technology purchase. Now that this risk is business model decision, how do you code your business? >> And it's very challenging for any business because the efficiency happens when those decisions get made jointly together. That's when real business efficiency. If you make one decision on one side of the line or the other side of the line only, you're losing efficiency that can be driven. >> And open is big because you have consensus algorithms, you got regulatory issues, the more data you're exposed to, and more horsepower that you have, this is the future, perfect storm. >> Perfect storm. >> Stefanie, thanks for coming on theCUBE, >> It's exciting. >> Great to see you. >> Oh my pleasure John, great to see you. >> You're awesome. Systems proud here in theCUBE, we're sharing all the systems data here at IBM Think. I'm John Furrier, more live coverage after this short break. All right.

>> Narrator: Live, from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering IBM Think 2018. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hello, everyone and welcome back to our day two of coverage here in Las Vegas, where IBM Think 2018's The Cube's three days of wall-to-wall coverage day two. Yesterday, we had kick-off, kind of partner day. Today's really the kick-off of the event. CEO of IBM up on stage for the keynote. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Dave, we're doing seven years or so plus all these six shows coming down to one for IBM Think. It's a packed house; you can't even get through the hallways. Looks like they need to go to Sands Convention Center. >> Dave: (laughs) or Moscone. >> Or Moscone, or somewhere bigger, they need a bigger boat, but the keynote kicked off, Ginni Rometty was up there. Interesting, putting smart to work, quantam, blockchain, AI data and she kind of laid out the cloud strategy, you know, using data in public cloud and private. It's clear where they're going with the cloud. Your analysis of the keynote, what's your thoughts? >> Well, first of all, John, as viewers know, I mean, I'm a big fan if Ginni Rometty. I think she's been overly criticized, but I think she's a great presenter. When I compare Ginni's presentation skills with some of the other CEOs in the industry, I think she's far superior. She connects with the audience, she looks great, she's really cogent, she's well prepared, so, I really like her as a presenter and as an executive, and, you know, another women in tech, you know we love that. Yes, you're right, putting smarter to work was her theme. She's talkin' about 30 to 40,000 people at the event. There's too many people to count I guess. You can't really figure that out, and, so, it's big, it's packed. She also did a theater in the round which was different. I noticed last year ServiceNow did that. I really like that style, so that was kind of an interesting thing. Ginni talked about three exponential growth areas. So, I'll lay 'em out and then, we can talk about it. She said they come every 25 years. The first was Moore's law, and we all know what that is, and the second was Metcalfe's law, the value of the network increases exponentially if the nodes in network increase, and then, the third, which is upon us now, is data plus AI. Her supposition was that is going to usher in a next era of incremental growth, because you're going to out-learn the competition, and she used this term of incumbent disruptors, and I heard that and went okay, hold on, (Dave laughs) 'cause I don't see it that way. >> Yeah. >> I don't see the incumbents as the disruptors. So, that was my first reaction, and then, she brought up three customers, Verizon, and I'm like, "Verizon? "A big telco is a disruptor, come on! "They're gettin' a disruptor by over the top.", but the CEO came on, Lowell McAdam, talkin' about 5G, so we'll talk about that, and then, Maersk, IBM has a joint venture with Maersk, so, Michael White came up, he's the CEO of that. Now, Maersk is using blockchain, and Maersk we all know is the container company and they're attacking inefficiencies with blockchain, so I thought that was actually a really good example, and then, Royal Bank of Canada, RBC, came up. You know, banking, to me, is an industry that has not been disrupted yet, and, so, I, again, was initially negative toward this idea of incumbent disruptors, 'cause I don't think the incumbents are disruptors, and we'll talk about why I think that, but I thought IBM did a pretty good job of showing how incumbents can actually take AI and blockchain and, at least, defend against the disruptors. >> I mean, it's clear to me that she's obviously playing to the crowd with the digital debt transformation. I mean, we talk about these traditional companies, they need to transform, and she brings up Moore's law and Metcalfe's law kind of to take a view of the past, but to look forward, she's kind of saying, "Lookit, Moore's law make things smaller, faster, "cheaper, doubling every six months." That's just on the, I mean, this applies to IoT, quantum makes everything else. Metcalfe's law I think is very relevant, 'cause if you look at blockchains about decentralized internet, you're talkin' about decentralized applications, that's where blockchain will play the major enablement there, that's about network effects, so you bring network effects in with Metcalfe's law, Moore's law on the equipments on the hardware side, I like that, so, that worked for me. The disruptors, I think it's more of overplaying her hand on that, because I just haven't seen any evidence of any incumbents truly disrupting themselves. So, maybe you can talk with Microsoft, IBM's trying to transform, but at the end of the day, they got to look back and learn from the internet era. If you don't jump on these next waves, you could be driftwood, right? So, you got to surf the new waves, and I think that's what I heard her say is IBM is putting data at the center of the value proposition using AI as a front end for that, make it smarter, and then, using blockchain as an infrastructure and protocol level opportunity to take the IBM software and data plane and wrap 'em together. So, if you look at it, you got data at the center, blockchain on one side, and AI on the other, it's the innovation sandwich. That, for me, works for me, now, let's unpack that. How real is it, and that's going to be what we're going to talk about, and I think that's a good strategy. All the elements are in play. >> Well, I think the other piece of that sandwich, maybe it's the dressing on top, is the cloud, 'cause you have to have scale and network effects in order to achieve that innovation. I just want to mention, she talked about three other things that you are going to do as a customer. You're going to, one, leverage digital platforms, you're going to, two, embed learning in, virtually, every process that you do, and, three, you're going to empower humans. So, she put forth this idea of augmented intelligence, and, as I predicted yesterday, she, unlike Larry Olsen, she doesn't come right out and slam her competition, she does it in a classy way. She said, quote, "IBM is not "in conflict with your business." In other words, we're not taking your data and then, remonetizing it at the back end. That's a big deal, IBM makes a lot of noise about that. So, it's really augmenting humans, not in conflict with your business, and bringing advanced security to things like blockchain, >> Yeah. >> and cloud, and AI. >> I like her term security to the core, I like that, but that kind of gives the impression that's core to all things, but if you look at the megatrends that are impacting the incumbents and the people trying to do digital transformation, as well as the new startups, Dave, that are trying to get a new position in the landscape is clear. You got blockchain, you got decentralized apps, you got AI, but the data's critical, and she mentioned some cool things I like with the cloud which was she's saying, "Lookit, we'll make "the data a really big thing for you. "If you want it in public cloud, "you can have it in private cloud." So, she's looking at cloud as much more of a hybrid approach on private, kind of hinting at the GDPR problem that we know's out there. So, if you want to move your data around, that's a critical asset. Also, if you look at what's going on in the news today, these days, is Facebook is getting slammed because how they were hacked with the election, and other weaponization of data, this is a big deal for companies, and I think if IBM can play that card to leverage the data and have the confidence of the companies that they serve to say, "Lookit, data's got to be owned by you, "but has to be managed in a way that's dynamic, "whether it's a GDPR or some other regulatory issue.", and, believe me, blockchain's going to have some. So, you know, they could come out and get in the front of this new wave, and I think that's a good play. So, it wasn't just a recycled cloud show, it wasn't just AI Watson, I like how she put it together. >> So, just touching on a thing, you mentioned Facebook. So she talked about Moore's law ushering in this era of back office productivity. She didn't mention Wintel; I think it's still, probably, too painful for IBM to think about that. Metcalfe's law, she said ushered in, sort of, the Facebook era. I think that's fair, the network effect of Facebook, and then, she said, "Hopefully, you know, "they'll call this Watson's law." I don't know if that's going to happen, but that notion of, >> Wishful thinking. >> hey, hey, you got to be power of positive thinking, but that notion of exponential learning. I want to talk about cloud for a minute. You and I had some interesting debates yesterday in our open about cloud. Oracle announced its earnings yesterday, cloud growth 30%. I see Oracle and IBM as very similar in their cloud strategies; both companies would vehemently disagree with that, >> Yeah. >> but I think they are very similar in that sense. The street didn't like it, because Oracle cloud only grew at 30%, stock's down, okay, great, but, to me, IBM and Oracle are similar in that they're basically cloudifying their business. They're allowing their clients to onboard customers to the cloud, putting their applications portfolios, their SAS products, their middleware into the cloud, IBM putting mainframe class stuff in the cloud, they're putting power into the cloud, storage into the cloud, pretty much everything into the cloud if you want it. Now, that's not easy to do >> Yeah. >> if you've got, you know, legacy businesses, obviously, AWS has a blank sheet of paper, that was kind of your point yesterday, >> Yeah, yeah. >> but I like the differentiation that I see from the companies like IBM and Oracle, and there really aren't many others like that. >> Yeah. I mean, my point yesterday was the definition of cloud has been totally mangled, right? Like, it's different, if you're Amazon, they have a slew of services, they have more services than anyone else on the planet, and they have more people using those services, so, by that standard, Amazon is clearly kicking everyone's butt, but that's just their perspective. If you look at IBM, their services are applications, same with Oracle. So, if you look at what IBM's doing is they're taking the same approach. Services and applications are going to be IBM's view of the cloud, but IBM's taking a multicloud approach, and I think that's different, and, when you put the data as the central component of the architecture, you're basically saying, "I'm going to look "at the cloud as more of a commodity layer. "I'll let the customers decide which cloud to use.", and that's a better strategy, now, it's hard to do multicloud, so maybe they're buying some time, but I think that's a good, solid strategy to take if they're not going to be trying to push their own cloud as 100%, because not all customers will sole source cloud unless there's functionality that that cloud does. For instance, Amazon is winning the public sector business like it's nobody's business, because they have the only cloud that has the ability to do classified and non-classified cloud. Nobody else has it, so, from a log speck standpoint, they're winning everything and from the DOD, CIA, and government. What IBM has to do is go into customer requirement saying, "We're the only company that can provide this." That's a unique opportunity for IBM. I think that's a winning approach rather than going on a frontal arms race of services with Amazon, and that's what all the big guys are doing. Microsoft, Oracle, IBM are not taking on Amazon directly, because they're going to have to match feature for feature, and then, Amazon wins that game every time. >> So, I want to go back to something Sam Palmisano said when he was CEO of IBM in 2012 on his way out. HP was the hot company, Hurd was running the company, and he was asked, "Do you worry about HP?" He said, "I don't worry about HP, "'cause they don't invest in R&D. "I worry about Oracle, 'cause they invest in R&D.", and, again, what I like about Oracle and IBM, they both invest in R&D, IBM even, you know, core stuff around blockchain, certainly quantum computing and the like. So, I think that is a very positive dynamic for both of those companies. >> Well, I mean, IBM's R&D is a secret weapon, I think, for them; they don't overplay that much. They do talk about it, but we look at what blockchain potentially could be, and I think, you know, IBM's certainly doing the messaging on blockchain. It still has a bunch of ads on T.V., and they're trying to make that a kind of a global brand, but blockchain speaks to a new infrastructure, right? It's not just distributed computing, it's decentralized computing, and we were saying on the Cube and we've been reporting there is a new wave of software developers coming on the market that are going to be writing decentralized applications for token economics. The notion of tokens isn't about ICOs and those scams, although there's a lot of those going on. The notion of token economics fit with a mobile cloud decentralized architecture whether it's IoT, or end users, or applications, token economics is going to change the impact in efficiencies up and down the stat. So, to me, the developer community that's rushing into the market on the decentralized applications will be a major opportunity, but you got to nail the blockchain and that tech is just a moving train from a protocol standpoint to an infrastructure. So, to me, I like what IBM's doing with blockchain. I think that's going to be an opportunity to move the ball down the field. >> So, the exponential innovation formula, in my view of the next ten years, is going to, and you nailed it, going to combine data with artificial intelligence, or machine intelligence, and cloud economics, and there is a set of digital services emerging. >> Well, cloud and token economics, both, it's two. >> But, so, yes, but, so, and that's part of it, but there's a set of digital services emerging in this fabric, and they're not bespoke services, they're part of this integrated fabric. The extent to which people leverage those services, those digital services, to create new business models is going to determine success or failure. Data, at the core, is critical. >> Yeah, yeah. >> I think you're right on on that, but what I like is that IBM is trying to solve some hard problems with AI. >> I mean, lookit, I was tweeting yesterday all day on some highlights from my Puerto Rico trip on the cryptocurrency events we've been covering, and one thing that we reported was the killer app for blockchain and cryptocurrency and decentralized apps is money. Money is the killer app, and we see that with the hype cycle with the ICOs, but, if you look at what IBM's doing with the supply chain side of their business, perfect storm for supply chain innovation. Blockchain is about money, marketplaces, and nailing inefficient incumbents. So, if the incumbents want to be disruptive, they're going to have to disrupt themselves by removing inefficiencies out of the system. >> Well, and the Maersk example was a good one where there's inefficiencies, you know, 20% of the cost of moving containers is admin stuff. Sometimes the admin costs exceed the shipping costs. So, that was a good example, but, again, I see blockchain as one component in this fabric, in this puzzle. >> Day two, Cube here, kicking off wall-to-wall coverage. Three days of live broadcast talking to the thought leaders. Extracting the signal from the noise, the Cube, the number one leader in live tech coverage. Go to cube.net to check out all the footage and siliconangle.com to check out all of our articles. We're reporting and the team reporting all week, and that analysis of Ginni's keynote, well done, Dave. More coverage after this short break. (techno beat) >> Narrator: Robert Herjavec.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back and we're live here in Las Vegas. This is 45,000 people here for Amazon Web Services re:Invent. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier with my co-host Stu Miniman. And our next guests are Barry Russell, general manager and business development of AWS Marketplace, and John Rooney, Vice President of product management for Splunk, partner of AWS. Also we cover Cube.com, Cube alumnis. Welcome back, good to see you. >> Thank you, it's wonderful to be back. >> So what's it like partnering with AWS? Because you guys got a big mention from Andy Jassy on my interview with him last week, really highlighting Splunk as a partner that's done so well on the platform, in the ecosystem. You guys were called out as just a real success story. Congratulations, what's the secret magic formula? Just can't be making great products? >> No, really, I think the secret formula is really about helping customers, and sort of what do customers need, and getting it to them. And there is this sort of virtuous cycle of the more AWS continues to innovate in how customers can build, deploy, manage services and applications, really build a whole business in the cloud, the more varied visibility needs there are. And that's what we provide. So it's a really good symbiotic relationship. It's a partnership that goes back years and years. I think I was here in 2012 on theCUBE re:Invent that year. And every year, it seems like there is no shortage of services. >> You and Jerry Chen have been on every year of AWS. >> I'm trying to dress better. That first year I wore a black Splunk t-shirt. And my Aunt Merry Jo was really upset. Like, "Can you please dress up?" So I'm wearing a sport jacket and shirt. So doing my best. >> Whatever you do, don't wear a tie. I'm boycotting the tie. >> I'll try not to. Yeah. >> Barry, we've been talking about the engagement and integrations that you've been doing. Talk about Splunk, the category that they're in, and why that's important in the marketplace. >> Yeah, well they've been great at innovating with us. In particular, they offer customers the ability to really deeply analyze what's happening in their environment. And as customers are migrating over, that's been super important for us. As a customer makes a decision to shut down data centers and migrate those application workloads over, they want to understand what's happening in their environment. They want security within that environment. And Splunk has been innovating around that. And for us, they've been a great partner because not only have they offered a traditional machine image-based software. But now they offer Splunk Cloud, which is a SAS based offering. Which we know many enterprise customers are moving to that model. >> What's the Splunk formula for the product? Because I hear there's a lot. And it's been debunked, but I'll bring it up because it's out there in people's minds. Whoa if we partner with Amazon I don't know they might take over our company. So I won't say there's a general fear, but I've heard that before. >> No, no, I think our relationship, again, with Amazon, it is around delivering the best possible service. the best possible products to our customers and we feel like the Amazon platform is, it's obviously best in industry, and best in class. Look around at the people that are here. And our customers are going there in droves. And they're looking at moving workloads. They're looking at starting. I mean, that's the other thing that's great. And the interesting thing, That we heard so much about serverless in the last couple of days and so much about sort of the next paradigm in building applications. That's all because the groundwork's been set in the cloud by Amazon for when the cloud in 2008, 2009, 2010 was all forklift a VM into the cloud and that sort of cloud. Well now we're completely re-architecting. We're really thinking about re-thinking the way applications and services are built. And again, that brings in new changes and challenges in visibility. I think the early, the sort of last decade or so at the early stage of, what were the concerns around the cloud? It's like, well, what about security and what about visibility? Obviously Verner talked today in the keynote about security is job one. Every developer needs to think about security. That's no longer a concern. That's not a blocker for cloud migration. Then obviously you have things like the Kinesis Firehose. All these other sources of information and sources of data so that customers who are moving their workloads to the cloud still have the same and probably better and more manageable visibility then they would have if they were pulling log files off disks in their data center. >> John you mentioned customers going through that transformation. I remember when we first started covering the Splunk conference with theCUBE. It was heavily virtualization environment. I mean, I first came across Splunk from the VMware community and the like. Customers are being pulled and going through those transformations. You mentioned Kinesis, you talk about, I think you've got an announcement for the Alexa for business also. You have a pretty broad spectrum. I mean, Splunk, how do you manage that portfolio internally and with customers? How do you manage the, I wouldn't say old guard for Splunk but you know manage the modernization and all these changes that are happening? >> Well, sort of the mental model for Splunk has always been, we'll go and get your data wherever it is and we'll pull it into Splunk so then you can correlate, visualize, search, and get value out of that data. And in some cases, that data is going to live, again, in the traditional distributed data center environment. Is going to be a log written to disk. There are still some industries where there are still mainframes. I know it seems crazy, but that is still a big piece and that's not necessarily going to go away tomorrow or the next day. But more importantly, I think increasingly, you're going to see, not just a, again, take an existing VM and forklift that into an IS environment. Lets re-architect an entire service. Lets rethink the way that we're delivering value to our customers. Those are the interesting opportunities for us It's a very close partnership with AWS. We're very closely aligned with the teams. So as they think about services, Cloud Trails, and the Kinesis Firehose, and Guard Duty. These things that they realize are valuable to their customers because they are here and their customers ask for it. We have just a good partnership that says, how can we plug in? How can we contribute to that initiative? >> Hey Barry, there's a word that John used that I want to ask you about. It's data. So you know when we interviewed Andy last year I put forth the premise, I think data is going to be the next flywheel for AWS. How does the marketplace look at that? You work with your partners, obviously integrations, the APIs but data is at the center of it. And how do you make sure that you are securing the data? Make sure that only the people have it but that partners can also help customers get more value out of it? >> Well you know all the applications we list in the catalog are put through security tests and we scan the applications themselves, the code, 24 hours a day seven days a week. It's part of the value we add. But working with ISVs like Splunk we also build API integration to services like Kinesis Firehose, like S3, like Aurora, so that customers have the opportunity to move their data over into AWS, which is where it's secure, and then leverage secure software to access and analyze that data. So I think he's exactly right in working in partnership with AWS. There's that connective tissue between a third party software and the native AWS service. >> Where's it go next for you guys? I mean, obviously, I think you're right about this whole partnership thing. Even though I brought that other question up. The growth is so massive. You can innovate with AWS. It's not like you're just partnering with them and putting it in a marketplace and hope someone buys it. There's growth. I think that's the nuance that people don't understand, is that you can do more with AWS. >> Well yeah I mean absolutely. I think the ability to be part of, the same way, again, in the keynote today, we talked about building in security from the get go. You start with security and with functionality. I think the notion of visibility and observability from a data standpoint. If you are building something, how do you know it's working? How can you provide the folks in operational roles and business roles the data and information that they need? So if you bake that in from the beginning, we now have an opportunity for Splunk to rethink our integration points. To rethink how we deliver value to customers. Again if you think about the Splunk origin story, we started with monitoring and troubleshooting in production environments. Right? Obviously, we built the company on that. We drink a lot of free soda in San Francisco based on those use cases. But if you think about now with DevOps and sort of the shift left movement that >> Your chair has grown significantly, big time because more services are available. >> More services are available but also people are rethinking the whole notion of product development and life cycle. And again I think DevOps, in many cases, the accelerant for DevOps has been cloud and obviously the accelerant for cloud has been AWS. >> Alright question for both of you guys because we've been talking about this on theCUBE and I've got Andy coming on in a few hours. We believe there is going to be a renaissance in software development. You mentioned software lifecycle. You can see it here. Verner's keynote about re-imagining architecture. He put the basic architecture slide up from a video streaming company, boxes and lines, normal architecture. Then S3 buckets, it looked completely different. So the question is with all the simplicity now, all this simplification in APIs. This is going to be a real boom for developers. We believe this is going to be a renaissance in software development, because it's not going to be you grandfather's software development lifecycle. Do you believe that, and how do you see software developers evolving? More craft? More artisanship? What do you see? >> I think that the confines of the scope of what a developer did five, ten, fifteen years ago is different. Developers didn't think about security. They didn't care about security. They didn't think about scalability. They didn't think about. What does elasticity of scale look like in my application? I don't know it worked in my dev environment. That now feels archaic. That's like leeches. Nobody does business like that anymore, right? And I think that's where the notion of >> Cloud9 was an impressive demo too. >> Absolutely. >> Things like that are coming down >> Yeah the idea that you have a fully powered IDE that includes interactivity in the cloud. Folks have sort of dreamt of that. If you think about how heavyweight the client based IDE has got to a certain point kind of in the late odds. Everyone went away from that and said nope we're just going to VI everything. I don't want to see, I don't want to plug in. I don't want to download anything. I just want to VI anything. Now it's sort of, we're back to. I have this full set of functionality. I have code completion, and I have all the things I need as a developer to help me. But its completely light weight. It's a service. It's a utility. It's like the faucet. So-- >> Here's what I would say. I would say that for the first time developers are going to have a rich set of options where they can choose how the customer deploys the software. Containers or serverless. API based or SAS. With the consumption model that matches that use case. Hourly, and metered, annual, or multi-year or consumed via an API service. >> It's going top be awesome and creative too. A lot of creativity. Final question because I know both of your companies very well. Both have really strong communities. The role of communities, certainly open source is growing exponentially. We're seeing that with the Linux Foundation and a variety of other places. With the cloud flywheel, with the open source flywheel, we believe communities are going to be very important. You guys both have strong communities, Splunk and AWS. What would you say to folks that aren't thinking about nurturing and building community into their products? >> I would say that our company was built by our early advocates. I mean again, our mission at the end of the day and from the very beginning was our core practitioners, our users. It's a little slightly different now AWS is sort of the classic developer but for us it was the sysadmin, the tier one and tier two SOC analysts and security. How do we help their lives? How do we make their job better? So we have to have an intimate understanding of what problems are they trying to solve? How do we solve that? How do we abstract away, essentially, the high-effort low-value parts of their job? Have the software do that, so they get to the point where their focus is on the. Essentially they get to apply their intellect, their expertise. Then they evangelize for us. So community is one hundred percent essential. It doesn't matter how great the mouse trap is if you are not connecting with people, if you are not making people part of that and allowing people to share ideas. >> So you had a strategy for community out of the gate. >> Yeah I think it's community first. >> Without community you don't get the feedback on how to improve your product. It's that simple. >> That simple, all right. Man, a great conversation. Marketplace is booming. General Manager of the Marketplace, Barry Russell. We got also John Rooney vice president of product marketing at Splunk. Very successful company. Gone from very small niche product, great community, to public company and now taking over the data world. Great to see you, John. Thanks for coming on. Barry, thanks for the commentary. >> Thank you. >> It' theCUBE 45,000 people here live in Vegas for re:Invent. I'm John Furrier and Stu. We'll be back with more coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas: It's theCUBE covering AWS reInvent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. (techno music) >> Welcome back, everyone, we're live here in Las Vegas. 45,000 people here at Amazon Web Services reInvent. This is theCUBE's exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Stu Miniman. Our next guests are Barry Russell, general manager and business development of Amazon Web Services marketplace, growing like a weed, and Chad Whalen, who is the global Vice President of Public Cloud for F5, guys, welcome back to theCUBE. Barry, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So, I mean, just, you can kinda see it now. Clear as day, no more, I mean, Andy says, "We're okay to be misunderstood." That quote, okay, no one's gonna misunderstand the Marketplace. >> Barry: I think it's pretty clear. >> You get in there, and you make money. It's pretty straightforward. >> Barry: Reducing a bunch of friction for customers. >> What's the current pitch, I mean, because this sounds like an easy sell at this point, what's the real benefits? Because, more of services are coming in. You got composability. What's the current state of the Marketplace? >> Yeah, you know, I think it's a couple of things. Uh, it's about selection and customer choice, so we've really grown the catalog, in terms of number of listings that are available and now more than 4200 listings in the catalog, and we announced three key features that we launched on Tuesday: AWS private link which enables SAS products to be run in a VPC. We announced Private Image Build that allows enterprise customers to run their own hardened OS underneath an image, and then we announced Enterprise Contract to reduce friction in the procurement process between large enterprise customers and software vendors. >> Okay, so I gotta ask, the AWS question: What was the working backwards document on this? Was it a main request from the customers? What was the main driver for some of these features because it sounds like they want to be cloud native, but, yet, they still gotta get that migration over, or was it something else, what was the driver? >> The driver was customer feedback. We went out, and we interviewed hundreds of customers over the last 12 months before we started building some of these features, and, without a doubt, they told us they wanted broader selection, broader deployment options, and to reduce friction around the contracting process, and then we just started building, and, over the course of the last nine to 10 months, that's what we've delivered. >> Awesome, all right, F5, you guys are in the Marketplace. You're partnered with AWS. What's your relationship with AWS, how's that going? >> Oh, I would say our relationship with AWS is fantastic. I mean, they're obviously the innovator in the Cloud space. Public Cloud is a strategic imperative for F5. They're at the vanguard of really the innovation of what's taking place in Public Cloud, and Marketplace is that fantastic medium to reach market, and, so, we really have the premise around meeting our customers how and when they want to be met. Marketplace is an excellent vehicle for us to do that, and we've enjoyed a lot of success with launch. >> How has your customers' consumption changed with the Cloud 'cause I can only imagine that, as they look at the mix of how they're gonna consume technology, they want some Cloud. How did you guys hone in on AWS? What was the real factor there? Was is acquisition of the technology? Was it the performance, what was some of the key things? >> You know, I think it's all about really reducing the friction in the process, right? Our customers are moving to the Cloud to have real-time agility and velocity in their business. What we get out of Marketplace is a fantastic set of options from a commercial construct. This solved the customer requirements. If it's going to be at development, we do it on a utility by the hour. When you start to go into production, we can do it in a subscription or a BYOL, so it's really about what application is there permanence and what's the best outcome for the customer, and we have all of that in front of us in multi-year agreements or otherwise leverage in this vehicle. >> So they're tailoring the products, basically. >> Absolutely. >> It sounds like customers are looking at this tailored model, whatever their needs are. They don't wanna be forced into a. >> Correct. >> Certain use case, they can just kind of mix and match. >> Yup, absolutely. >> Yeah, Barry, you know, think networking security have been spaces that I've seen really exploding in this ecosystem over the last couple a years. It, building off of what John was say, I mean, how much of it is custom stuff? You know, things that they're coming, working with Amazon versus just, you know, oh, it's the everything store where I can go get pieces? >> Well, we work with each vendor that lists in the catalog. We have a SA team, Solution Architect team, to work with them on the optimal architecture, be that an omni-based, API-based, and SAS-based, and then we give that vendor and their product development teams the ability to price those products in utility consumption model metered, for example, on the amount of data or band-width consumed, multi-year contracts that are publicly priced or negotiated behind the scenes. So, both in the innovation and the engineering and how the customer actually deploys the product, we innovate on pricing and consumption models to match those deployment options, and we give vendors, all vendors, that enter the catalog, whether they're open-source or commercial products, like F5, the option to use all of those features. >> Yeah, Chad, I think back to, you know, there was the wave of like software, you know, happening kind of networking and secured and everything, but, you know, you've always been in kind of the application delivery portion of this. How is Cloud accelerating your customers' journey and impacting how fast you need to change inside at F5? >> Yeah, that's a great question. I think that because Public Cloud is such a fantastic vehicle for our customers it was really customers-focused, right? So, when you work back from what the customer wants both in terms of how you orchestrate, how you automate, and then with the commercial construct is then they can use it in a best-fit application, and that's really the grounding point for us, and, when we get friction, any time you have a new medium there's going to be friction points and learning points. We've worked in concert with AWS, Marketplace in particular, about solving these ways, whether it's in private offers or custom negotiated offers specifically for customers to meet their needs from an economic and a delivery standpoint. >> I gotta ask the question 'cause it always pops into my head, especially at this reInvent, the pace of services being released, Lambda, Serverless, you can just see it coming. It's going to put more pressure under the hood for automation, that heavy lifting that's Dev Ops, as we know, right, so no new news there. The question is what does it mean for the Marketplace 'cause now you're gonna be under a lot of pressure to integrate a lot of these plumbing and or, abstracted away dev ops-like tools that developers don't wanna provision, so you have the automate so that seems like a challenge. How are you guys dealing with that? How do you make Lambda sing? How do you guys make this thing go smoother? >> Yeah, it's a really great question. I mean, one of the challenges that you get in, when you get into what I would say Cloud Sprawl, within an organization, is how do you maintain the governance and compliance of those workloads? And so we're really lookin' at it from that basis. We want to give as much flexibility into the model while still maintaining what was designed from the beginning, and so our customers wanna use the rules. They wanna have that portability into Public Cloud so they have the assurance. The underlying technologies are just the delivery vehicles, whether it's containers or Lambda or whatever in a server-less architecture, we're focused really on making sure that we have that ubiquity of posture across the asset wherever that asset is. >> Jeff: Makes your sources work together properly. >> Absolutely. >> Barry, what's the trends that you're seeing in the Marketplace? I mean, obviously, there's a lot of growth. Lot of data, and one of the things that I love about this reInvent is they're servicing this new playbook of, hey, use the data, your own data. We saw a new relic had a great report, Sumo Logic kind of report, that basically anonymizes the data, but they're using real data and Verner will talk about this at the keynote. What data can you share about the Marketplace that shows some trends that indicates or allows us to read the tea leaves of what's gonna happen next? >> Well, I think the customer growth stat that we shared, in terms of active monthly customers, we've gone from a hundred active monthly customers we announced last reInvent last year when we were here to now 160,000 active customers using the Marketplace, so we see steady growth. We see growth and adoption from the enterprise, and customers like Shell and Thomson Reuters, that we announced were part of Enterprise contracts on Tuesday, really beginning to think about using the Marketplace to go from traditional procurement moving to digital procurement model allows their IT organizations' dev ops teams to move much fast when pairing with services like a Kinesis, like an S3, like a Red Shift, when they're matching third party software with an AWS-native service. >> Jeff: Are you happy with things right now? Pretty much looking pretty good! >> I'm happy. >> Jeff: Middle of the fairway. >> I think it's been a fantastic show! (laughing) >> I'm happy, F5 has been a great partner of ours in the Marketplace, I'm a happy camper. >> Jeff: What's next? >> What's next? I think what's next for us next year is continuing to grow the Enterprise contract that we deployed, so we started with a small set of customers and vendors that participated to help us arrive at that contract that they both could use, and, I think that over the course of the next 12 months, we really need to think about the types of customers and vendors that enter that program. >> All right, Barry Russell and Chad Whalen with F5. Barry will be back on our next segment with another partner. A lot of partner goodness here. Amazon's ecosystem's exploding, and there's a lot of value to be had by all. That's theCUBE bringing you some content value on our third day live coverage. 45,000 people here this year at Amazon Webster's reInvent. More after this short break. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. We'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> We are life back here in Las Vegas at the Sands Expo as we continue our coverage here on theCUBE of re:Invent, AWS here on the fourth day of what has been a very successful show. I still hear a lot of buzz, a lot of activity on the show floor. It certainly indicative of what happened here in terms of bringing this community together in a very positive way. I'm with Justin Warren, I'm John Walls. We go from Justin to Dustin, Dustin Kirkland, who is the vice president of product development for Ubuntu on the Canonical. It's good to see you again. >> Likewise, John. >> I should let the two of you probably chat about Australia. We heard these great diving stories about your adventures, your home, your native country. >> Yep. >> Maybe afterwards will get a little photos, travel thing going on. >> Yeah that's right. (laughing) >> All right, 17 years you have been diving. Were going to have to get into that a little bit later on. First off, let's talk about Ubuntu, and maybe the footprint within AWS. Maybe not only what brings you here, but what gets you there? What are you doing there? >> First of all, this is a fantastic conference. Hundreds of these organizations here are involved in Ubuntu, using Ubuntu in AWS and taking advantage of open source, using it for lots of scale out services. To date this year in 2017, over 125 million instances of Ubuntu have launched in AWS alone just this year, and the year is not even over yet. We see anything from media entertainment. Netflix is here. I spent some time with them. One of Netflix's performance engineers gave a talk yesterday about how Netflix tunes their Ubuntu instances in Amazon to the tune of 100,000 instances of Ubuntu running in Amazon to deliver the Netflix experience that I'm sure all of us have. >> John: 100,000? >> Yeah. >> That's amazing. >> It's crazy, yeah. >> I'm a big fan of Ubuntu because I am a mad person. I've been running it as my primary desktop for something like 10 years. >> All right! >> I run it on a laptop. >> Okay. >> I love it, it's great. >> Good. >> People use Ubuntu all the time but it's like it just became the de facto, it seems like overnight of pretty much, hey, if you want to run Linux in cloud, you just spin up in Ubuntu. Just run it up, so what is it about Ubuntu itself, where are you taking the product for people who are using it in cloud? We are hearing a lot about all these different services, and we are hearing about serverless, so how does Ubuntu fit into that AWS world? >> That's a great question. First of all, it's not overnight. We have been doing this since 2004, so we are going on 14 years of building the thing that is Ubuntu. We brought Ubuntu into Amazon in about 2008, which is right when I got involved at Canonical. I was working on Ubuntu before that, but working for Canonical, and that was relatively early in the entire Amazon adventure. You said Ubuntu on the desktop. That's certainly where Ubuntu got its start, but it was Amazon that really busted Ubuntu out into the server space, and so now as you said, if you are starting a new company or a new technology, you almost by default start on Ubuntu. Now where are we taking that? Here we are talking about cloud, but the other half of cloud is the edge. The edge being embedded devices, embedded IOT connected devices. The thing about every IOT device, the I in IOT is Internet. The connected part of a connected device means it has to be connected to something, and what is going to be connected to? The cloud. Every smart autonomous driving vehicle, every oil rig out in West Texas, every airplane, every boat, every ship, every place where you are going to find compute in these next couple of years as we move into the 5G revolution, are connected to services on the backend, the majority of those hosted in Amazon, and the majority of those running Ubuntu. >> When you talk about IOT though, what kind of challenges that that bring into your world? Because you are talking about this, I mean, I can't even think about the order of growth. >> Yeah, billions, literally billions. >> It's just massive connectivity, and in a mobile environment, throw that on top of that, so what does that do for you then in terms of what you are looking at down the road and the kind of capabilities that you have got to build in? >> Security, I mean it starts with security. When we think about devices in our homes accompanying our kids to school, devices that are inside of buses and hospitals, it's all about security, and security is first and foremost. We put a lot of effort into securing Ubuntu. We've created new features as part of where we are taking Ubuntu. Many of the new features we created around Ubuntu are about updates, security updates, being able to make those updates active without rebooting the system, so zero downtime kernel updates is something we call a live patch service which we deliver in Amazon for Ubuntu Amazon users. Extended security maintenance. Security for Ubuntu after end-of-life, say you said you've been using Ubuntu for a long time. Each Ubuntu release has basically a five year lifecycle but some enterprises actually need to run Ubuntu for much longer than five years, and for those enterprises, we provide security updates after the end of life, after that five-year end-of-life, and in many cases, that helps them bridge that gap until the next release of Ubuntu. We've also worked with IBM and the US government to provide FIPS certified cryptography for Ubuntu also available in Amazon, so the Department of Defense contractors, many federal contractors are required to use FIPS bits, and this actually allows them to bring their Ubuntu usage into compliance with what's required for government regulation. >> I'm so glad that you went from IOT to security in, like, a nanosecond. That was going to be my next question. >> Well that is the only answer to that. It's the only right answer to that question in my mind. >> Not enough companies put that much focus on security and you follow it up with specific concrete examples of things that are going to work. The live kernel patching without rebooting things so that you can have the-- I mean, services in the cloud, it has to be always on. You can't take a maintenance window when something is down four hours or a weekend. That's just not acceptable in the cloud world anymore. >> Especially in the retail season. We are just now getting into the retail-- you know, Black Friday was last week, Cyber Monday this week, and the roll up all the way to Christmas, Canonical works with quite a bit with the largest retailers in the world, Walmart, Best Buy, other ones like that, and downtime is just not acceptable. At the same time, security is of the utmost importance. When you are taking people's credit cards, you are placing large amounts of money on the line every time these transactions take place. Security has to be utmost, and being able to do that without impacting the downtime. Downtime is seriously hundreds of thousands of dollars per second on some of these sites during the major holiday rush. >> You just mentioned some of the big names you're working with, so what kind of assurance can you give them that you can sleep with both eyes closed? You don't have to keep that one eye open. Don't worry, if there is an incident of some kind, we are going to take care of it. If you have a problem, rest assured, we are going to be there because, as you pointed out, with the volume involved and the issues of security infiltrations being what they are today, it's hard to rest. >> Right, the return on value, the return on investment of the live patch is easily apparent. Any time someone does the math and realizes, "Let's actually look at how much it costs us "to reboot a data center, "or how much it costs us to wake up the dev ops team "on a Saturday and have them work through a weekend "to roll out this update," whereas with the live patch, at least the patch is applied in milliseconds without downtime, and then we get back on Monday and we rollout a comprehensive plan as to what do we actually need to do about this going forward? That is for the kernel side of things. The other half of it is the user space side of Ubuntu. In the user space side of Ubuntu, we continue to make Ubuntu smaller, smaller and smaller. That might be one of the reasons you are attracted to Ubuntu on your laptop early on is because we really did a good job of making a Linux that was consumable, usable, but also very small and secure. We've actually taken that same approach in the cloud where we continue to minimize the footprint of Ubuntu. That has a security impact in that if you simply leave software out of the default image you are not vulnerable to problems in that software, so we've heard that quite a bit around the container space, the work we do in the container space. We will be in Austin next week for CUBE Con talking about containers. I will save the container talk for next week, but minimizing Ubuntu is an important of that security story as well. >> All right, just reducing that attack surface is fabulous. It also means that when you are actually doing this patching, it's less things to patch, there are less opportunities for downtime, there are less things that can go wrong and cause outages in the rest of the place. Simple is better. >> Dustin : That's right, that's exactly right. >> What else are you doing? We've talked about security a lot here. What are some of the other things that you are doing around supporting the services that we are hearing here at AWS? We've heard a lot about things like serverless. We've heard a lot about high performance computing. We've had guests here on theCUBE talking about what they are doing around data analytics and machine learning, so maybe you could give us a little bit of color around that. >> Let's start with that last point, machine learning and data analytics. We work very closely with both Amazon and Nvidia to enable the GPGPUs, the general-purpose graphics processing units that Nvidia produces which go into servers and Amazon exposes in the some of the largest machine learning type instances. Those instances powered by Ubuntu are working directly with that GPU out of the box by default, and that's something that we've worked very hard on and closely with both Amazon and Nvidia to make sure the Ubuntu experience when using the graphics accelerated instance types just work, and just work out of the box. Those are important for the machine learning and the data analytics because many of those algorithms take advantage of CUDA. CUDA is a set of libraries that allows developers to write applications that scale very, very wide across the CUDA cores, so a given Nvidia GPU may have several thousand Nvidia CUDA cores. Each of those are running little process bits and then the answers are summed up, basically, at the end. That is at the heart of everything that's happening in the AI space, and that I will tie that back to our IOT space in that for those connected devices where memory discs, CPU, power are very constrained, part of the important part of that connection is that they are talking to a cloud that has essentially infinite resources, infinite data at its disposal, enough memory to load those entire data sets and crunch those. The fastest CPUs and the fastest GPUs that can crunch that data, so to really take that and make that real, that's exactly what's powering every autonomous vehicle in the world, essentially, is a little unit inside of the car, a majority of those autonomous vehicles are running Ubuntu on the auto driving unit. Tesla, Google, Uber, all running Ubuntu inside of that car. Every one of those cars are talking to a cloud. Some clouds are Amazon, other, in Google's case, certainly the Google cloud, but they are talking to GPU Nvidia powered AI instances that are crunching all the data that these Tesla cars and GM, and Ford cars are sending to the cloud and constantly making the inference engine better. What gets downloaded to the car is an updated inference engine. That inference engine comes down to the car, and that's how that car decides is it safe to change lanes right now or not? That answer has to be determined inside of the car, not in the cloud, but you can understand why data training and modeling in the cloud is powerful, far more powerful than what can happen inside of a little CPU in a the car. >> John: Let's just keep it on the right side of the road. Can we do that? (laughing) >> Well, you need to talk to this gentleman about that. >> Yeah, I drive on the left side. (laughing) >> Or the left side of the road. >> Don't cross the streams. >> How about the correct side of the road? >> Don't cross the streams. >> Dustin thanks for the time. >> Thank you, John. >> Always good seeing you. >> Likewise. >> And we'll see you next week as well. Down in your hometown, a little barbecue in Austin. >> That sounds good. >> All right, back with more here at re:Invent. We are live in Las Vegas back with more on theCUBE in just a bit.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman here with my cohost, Justin Warren, and you are watching theCUBE SiliconANGLE Media's live production of AWS re:Invent 2017. Happy to welcome back to the program, Rishi Yadav, who is the CEO of Zettabytes, and Bart Hickenlooper, who is the SAP of client services. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you, Stu. >> So Rishi, yesterday you on the other set with John Furrier and with Justin, and we were really excited to really launch Zettabytes, help you bring the company out. We've known Infoobjects and your company for a while, so of course we want people to go check out the other interview, but in today's hybrid multi-cloud world, we've seen Amazon kind of slowly moderating a little bit the way they discuss it, but why don't you bring us inside a little bit? What are you hearing from customers, and what kind of led to the creation of Zettabytes? >> What we are hearing from customers is that there is a lot of talk about the cloud and AWS. The challenges that what I discussed yesterday also was that how do I take those baby steps toward our option of the cloud? That is where the challenge comes. On one side and they say everything on prem is bad. Everything on cloud is good. Those kind of statements are okay, but somebody who has got billions of dollars of business running, for them it doesn't make any sense. They want to have logical steps, and they also want to have, with every step, what value they are adding. >> We always hear, right, we always take in and it's like all in on any one thing. Oh come on, you are using various SAS providers. You probably have multiple cloud providers. Yes, you've still got something sitting in the backend of your data center, where many things, and that migration takes time. What kind of strategy and tactics do you hear customers doing that gets Zettabyte engaged? >> What was in most enterprises is an effort to really modernize their applications. They want to make those so that they are cloud native leveraging the innovation that's taking place in the cloud. That application modernization is really what's driving an enterprise to do some things and move quickly to the cloud. It's no longer the economics of moving to the cloud, but that innovation engine that can be really egnited with those technologies. Getting there from their legacy platforms is a little tricky. They need a development cycle that works in a hybrid fashion to really go cloud native with those applications. >> When they're starting off on that journey, where do you find customers starting with? What are the applications that they do first, and what are the functions that they use from AWS, like are they going with just EC2 type things? Are they using S3 for storage? What do they start with? >> That's a good point that for the first phase of the cloud out option most of the work was on IES. Whatever you have on prem, you just put that on the cloud then obviously you go through your storage and things like that. That is where there was a lot of talk. If you remember a few years back, everybody was saying, "The cloud is not cheap, "the cloud is costly," and as Bart said, it's not about economics. Has always about convenience. It's always about the value-added, and especially when enterprises started getting into the cloud, started the all opt in cloud a few years back, that's where those things became very important because that is what they wanted. You just cannot save someone 20% in investiture cost and that may not even come and that it's worth the option of the cloud. >> We were talking yesterday about the 100 services, the number of services that you as an orginzation have to wrap your brain around and one of the things that Zettabytes helps with that is to give you some focus so again, what are the things that Zettabytes is focusing on that they find that customers actually really, really want from cloud. Amazon is so huge. Making sense of the whole thing is quite tricky. When you talk about application modernization, if you have a monolithic application, EC2 and S3 are great. If you are going to migrate it, you can do that. What we are seeing is really a switch to DevOps for application development, microservices development that leverage certain platform services from Amazon that are specific to enable an application, and those are things like Lambda, Kinesis, Elasticsearch, and you can write microservices that consume those services in addition to your traditional storage and compute, and really get cloud native. We've selected those services on our platform to help with that application modernization and really enable a customer to make applications with microservices enablement. >> WikiBon has been looking at many years really. What has happened with this transformation of the data center. The research that we put out a few years ago is what we call true private cloud because like you said, what was happening the virtualization plus. I love virtualization. I spent 15 years on that wave, but it wasn't enough, and even when we started simplifying with even some automation on there, that application journey, and how do we get ready for modern applications? I worked a lot on the HCI wave. It was, "Let's modernize our infrastructure, "and then we will worry about that application stuff later, "and maybe it's not a fit." What is different now? What are the toolings available? Why is now, can I put that stuff, I mean, the cloud native, isn't it? That should all live in a public cloud, no? What cannot live in many places? >> I think that's a great point. Three pieces of the puzzle, infrastructure, data, and the applications so there has been a lot of talk about infrastructure and not having infrastructure. Data, every other company in the Bay Area is a backup and restore company. Nobody is talking about applications. Yes, they are SAS players, right? We are like, okay, we will just host an application for you and you don't have to worry about anything else, but what about a lot of these legacy applications which have been built over the last 20 or 30 years? Nobody is talking about that. Everybody talks about greenfield applications. What about we start new? Everything is going to be the cloud. Is going to be cloud native. Everything is awesome, and then the clients say, "Yes "but I already invested $5 million in the applications "in the last 10 years." What's going to happen to them? >> To say that the first 80% of writing software is putting the bugs in, and then the second 80% of writing software is taking them out again, so if you have to completely start with these core business applications that are generating revenue, there's a lot of risk there in going to something brand-new. I know we've had Andy Jassy talking about if I was starting the company again today, I would go completely all serverless. And I think, really? Right now in 2017? Is it really that established and that great? What is your take on that? For an enterprise that have this investment already, should they be going completely all into serverless, or should they be picking off some of these other more mature services do you think? >> I would say it would be really application-specific. If it's traditional transactional, you may or may not want to go serverless because you've got that relational database really kind of structured around it. If it's a modern application and you are a company that has, for example, a brand-new mobile application, then you are going to want to leverage things like Lambda in those application development so you can trigger the correct service to spin up in that application. I think modernization is really specific to the use case. What we are seeing is a digital transformation in most companies where they are really requiring some newer applications to leverage past services like Lambda, Elasticsearch, Kinesis, and other things. >> Rishi, one of the things that we've heard from customers for many years is they so that they'd like to have the same in their data center as in the public cloud. We did a survey years ago and everybody, it was like 80% said that then said, "What do you have?" I've got VMware here and I've got an AWS there. Is it about having the whole stack? Are APIs enough? How much commonality do you need? How does Zettabytes look at this And had to help customers bridge this model? >> Yes absolutely, so number one is that the VMware type of solution is still pretty much, I like VMware but it's pretty much infrastructure as a service base. The second thing is the reason we have come up with our platform is that few core services and for few key workloads, IOT is being one of them, low intensive uploads being another of them, the workloads in which you need special type of security and governance which clients are used to from the last 20 years. Yes, AWS have amazing security and governance, no doubt about that, but still, part of the workload they may want to run locally, and they should at least have that freedom. Only those part of workloads are going to be run on Zettabytes plans, but the API compatibility will provide complete, so whether you want to run it on Zettabytes or on AWS, most of the workloads are going to work on AWS, and that you can run from our platform. >> I want to keep off the word you mentioned there. You mentioned appliances. We have seen lots of solutions over the last decade. You have done quite well as appliances. Talk about the HCI, talk about the backup recovery, lots of things there, but it's a software world now. Hex serverless, Andy Jassy says we will build serverless. Why an appliance? Talk a little bit about the go to market. What do people get today? How do they buy it? Why does that make sense for your customers? >> Yes absolutely, a value added more from the sales perspective but appliance, from the optimization perspective is perfect. In our case, yes, we have figured out a spec which is perfect perfectly optimized for tuning our software platform and we can provide to the clients. If they want to have a similar stack built themselves that is perfectly okay, but the idea is that hardware has an equally important role to play as software has. >> When you think about the platform services that we have like S3, RDS, and others, you definitely need hardware to support a real workload and for us to really standardize on something that someone can do, true development with that depth on the platform is really critical. You can go to GitHub and get open source S3 and work around it, but it's a mock. Really what you need is a platform to develop application, and the other thing is I worked for Cisco for 10 years, and the channel there is extremely powerful with companies like CDW, WWT, the routes to market there is really compelling for combined solution and I think part of the reason you are seeing success with those combined solutions is the customers are used to a service model where it's one throat to choke on those types of platforms, and the channel is a trusted advisor. It's a great way for us to go to market. >> Yeah, to just give my two cents on that, people conflate that we've had some commoditization of what's happening in infrastructure. It doesn't mean just grab stuff off of the shelf. I read an article 4 years ago. AWS infrastructure is hyper optimized. If you went to the Tuesday night's keynote, oh my gosh, they spent way more on hardware than anybody else in this ecosystem, I'm sure, and spent more as much, so it's not that you have IP in hardware. From my understanding it you are making sure you've got, your software is natural to package. If I can do it, somebody else can do it. >> Bart: Yeah, go ahead. >> Absolutely, I think that part is very, very important that one throat to choke, one company which supports everything. In our case, yes, if you want to have your own hardware, then you can do that, but in our case, if you take the whole appliance from us, that we are providing you complete support. Hardware, operating system, as well as the software. >> And in a certain sense, we are really trying to, l like you said, Stu, match the performance of those optimized environments on AWS for our clients so they get a similar experience from our platform that they would get on AWS. If they build something on Zettabytes and then deploy on AWS, they should get the same experience. >> I want to give you the last word. I'm sure you have lots of customers coming by our booth. It's not far from where you're sitting right now. What are some of the key things they are hearing? What is getting them excited, interested in, that they want to follow up with? >> I think most of the customers we've talked to we say, "Okay, are you using AWS?" they say, "Yes," because they are at re:Invent. I say, "Okay, how far you are in the AWS option?" that's where the devil comes in the details. These applications we have been able to migrate, these we have not been able to migrate. We are building our exponents around it and things like that, and then the question comes, "Do you really want to go too deep into figuring out "the problems which the vendors have solved, "or would you rather focus on your business problems?" that's what I would say. They would say one package, one platform when you get to focus on your business problems and we take care of the rest. >> Yeah, and I think in the keynote yesterday, Andy Jassy said it's all about the analytics and what we are hearing is we've given a lot of thought to putting together a platform that supports big data analytics in addition to the AWS abstraction that we've done, so those analytics workloads were really intriguing to people that are talking with us, our support of machine learning, converting what may be a traditional spark job into a Lambda function is really something people are raising their eyebrows about. >> Bart Hickenlooper, Rishi Yadav asking how deep you are into AWS? Well here at theCUBE we are about 60 interviews in which means we have a few more hours left of great interviews here, so for Justin Warren, I'm Stu Miniman. Thank you so much for watching theCUBE.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE's exclusive live coverage here in Las Vegas for AWS Amazon web services re:Invent 2017. I'm John Furrier with Keith Townsend. Our next guest is Laura Stevens, data scientist at the American Heart Association, an AWS customer, welcome to theCUBE. >> Hi, it's nice to be here. >> So, the new architecture, we're seeing all this great stuff, but one of the things that they mention is data is the killer app, that's my word, Verna didn't say that, but essentially saying that. You guys are doing some good work with AWS and precision medicine, what's the story? How does this all work, what are you working with them on? >> Yeah, so the American Heart Association was founded in 1924, and it is the oldest and largest voluntary organization dedicated to curing heart disease and stroke, and I think in the past few years what the American Heart Association has realized is that the potential of technology and data can really help us create innovative ways and really launch precision medicine in a fashion that hasn't been capable to do before. >> What are you guys doing with AWS? What's that, what's the solution? >> Yeah so the HA has strategically partnered with Amazon Web Services to basically use technology as a way to power precision medicine, and so when I say precision medicine, I mean identifying individual treatments, based on one's genetics, their environmental factors, their life factors, that then results in preventative and treatment that's catered to you as an individual rather than kind of a one size fits all approach that is currently happening. >> So more tailored? >> Yeah, specifically tailored to you as an individual. >> What do I do, get a genome sequence? I walk in, they throw a high force computing, sequence my genomes, maybe edit some genes while they're at it, I mean what's going on. There's some cutting edge conversations out there we see in some of the academic areas, course per that was me just throwing that in for fun, but data has to be there. What kind of data do you guys look at? Is it personal data, is it like how big is the data? Give us a sense of some of the data science work that you're doing? >> Yeah so the American Heart Association has launched the Institute for Precision Cardiovascular Medicine, and as a result, with Amazon, they created the precision medicine platform, which is a data marketplace that houses and provides analytic tools that enable high performance computing and data sharing for all sorts of different types of data, whether it be personal data, clinical trial data, pharmaceutical data, other data that's collected in different industries, hospital data, so a variety of data. >> So Laura, there's a lot of think fud out there around the ability to store data in a cloud, but there's also some valid concerns. A lot of individual researchers, I would imagine, don't have the skillset to properly protect data. What is the Heart Association doing with the framework to help your customers protect data? >> Yeah so the I guess security of data, the security of the individual, and the privacy of the individual is at the heart of the AHA, and it's their number one concern, and making anything that they provide that a number one priority, and the way that we do that in partnering with AWS is with this cloud environment we've been able to create even if you have data that you'd like to use sort of a walled garden behind your data so that it's not accessible to people who don't have access to the data, and it's also HIPAA compliant, it meets the standards that the utmost secure standards of health care today. >> So I want to make sure we're clear on this, the Heart Association doesn't collect data themselves. Are you guys creating a platform for your members to leverage this technology? >> So there's, I would so maybe both actually. The American Heart Association does have data that it is associated with, with its volunteers and the hospitals that it's associated with, and then on top of that, we've actually just launched My Research Legacy, which allows individuals of the community to, who want to share their data, whether you're healthy or just sick, either one, they want to share their data and help in aiding to cure heart disease and stroke, and so they can share their own data, and then on top of that, anybody, we are committed to strategically partnering with anybody who's involved and wants to share their data and make their data accessible. >> So I can share my data? >> Yes, you can share your data. >> Wow, so what type of tools do you guys use against that data set and what are some of the outcomes? >> Yeah so I think the foundation is the cloud, and that's where the data is stored and housed, and then from there, we have a variety of different tools that enable researchers to kind of custom build data sets that they want to answer the specific research questions they have, and so some of those tools, they range from common tools that are already in use today on your personal computer, such as Python or R Bioconductor, and then they have more high performance computing tools, such as Hal or any kind of s3 environment, or Amazon services, and then on top of that I think what is so awesome about the platform is that it's very dynamic, so a tool that's needed to use for high performance computing or a tool that's needed even just as a on a smaller data set, that can easily be installed and may be available to researchers, and so that they can use it for their research. >> So kind of data as a service. I would love to know about the community itself. How are you guys sharing the results of kind of oh this process worked great for this type of analysis amongst your members? >> Yeah so I think that there's kind of two different targets in that sense that you can think of is that there's the researchers and the researchers that come to the platform and then there's actually the patient itself, and ultimately the HA's goal is to make, to use the data and use the researcher for patient centered care, so with the researchers specifically, we have a variety of tutorials available so that researchers can one, learn how to perform high performance computing analysis, see what other people have done. We have a forum where researchers can log on and enable, I guess access other researchers and talk to them about different analysis, and then additionally we have My Research Legacy, which is patient centered, so it's this is what's been found and this is what we can give back to you as the patient about your specific individualized treatment. >> What do you do on a daily basis? Take us through your job, are you writing code, are you slinging API's around? What are some of the things that you're doing? >> I think I might say all of the above. I think right now my main effort is focused on one, conducting research using the platform, so I do use the platform to answer my own research questions, and those we have presented at different conferences, for example the American Heart Association, we had a talk here about the precision medicine platform, and then two, I'm focused on strategically making the precision medicine platform better by getting more data, adding data to the platform, improving the way that data is harmonized in the platform, and improving the amount of data that we have, and the diversity, and the variety. >> Alright, we'll help you with that, so let's help you get some people recruited, so what do they got to do to volunteer, volunteer their data, because I think this is one of those things where you know people do want to help. So, how do they, how you onboard? You use the website, is it easy, one click? Do they have to wear an iWatch, I mean what I mean? >> Yeah. >> What's the deal? What do I got to do? >> So I think I would encourage researchers and scientists and anybody who is data centric to go to precision.heart.org, and they can just sign up for an account, they can contact us through that, there's plenty of different ways to get in touch with us and plenty of ways to help. >> Precision.heart.org. >> Yup, precision.heart.org. >> Stu: Register now. >> Register now click, >> Powered by AWS. >> Yup. >> Alright so I gotta ask you as an AWS customer, okay take your customer hat off, put your citizen's hat on, what is Amazon mean to you, I mean is it, how do you describe it to people who don't use it? >> Okay yeah, so I think... the HA's ultimate mission right, is to provide individualized treatment and cures for cardiovascular disease and stroke. Amazon is a way to enable that and make that actually happen so that we can mine extremely large data sets, identify those individualized patterns. It allows us to store data in a fashion where we can provide a market place where there's extremely large amounts of data, extremely diverse amounts of data, and data that can be processed effectively, so that it can be directly used for research. >> What's your favorite tool or product or service within Amazon? >> That's a good question. I think, I mean the cloud and s3 buckets are definitely in a sense they're my favorites because there's so much that can be stored right there, Athena I think is also pretty awesome, and then the EMR clusters with Spark. >> The list is too long. >> My jam. >> It is. (laughs) >> So, one of the interesting things that I love is a lot of my friends are in non-profits, fundraising is a big, big challenge, grants are again, a big challenge, have you guys seen any new opportunities as a result of the results of the research coming out of HA and AWS in the cloud? >> Yeah so I think one of the coolest things about the HA is that they have this Institute for Precision Cardiovascular Medicine, and the strategic partnership between the HA and AWS, even just this year we've launched 13 new grants, where the HA kind of backs the research behind, and the AWS provides credit so that people can come to the cloud and use the cloud and use the tools available on a grant funded basis. >> So tell me a little bit more about that program. Anybody specifically that you, kind of like saying, seeing that's used these credits from AWS to do some cool research? >> Yeah definitely, so I think specifically we have one grantee right now that is really focused on identifying outcomes across multiple clinical trials, so currently clinical trials take 20 years, and there's a large variety of them. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the Framingham heart study, the Dallas heart study, the Jackson heart study, and trying to determine how those trials compare, and what outcomes we can generate, and research insights we can generate across multiple data sets is something that's been challenging due to the ability to not being able to necessarily access that data, all of those different data sets together, and then two, trying to find ways to actually compare them, and so with the precision medicine platform, we have a grantee at the University of Colorado-Denver, who has been able to find those synchronicities across data sets and has actually created kind of a framework that then can be implemented in the precision medicine platform. >> Well I just registered, it takes really two seconds to register, that's cool. Thanks so much for pointing out precision.heart.org. Final question, you said EMR's your jam. (laughing) >> Why, why is it? Why do you like it so much, is it fast, is it easy to use? >> I think the speed is one of the things. When it comes to using genetic data and multiple biological levels of data, whether it be your genetics, your lifestyle, your environment factors, there's... it just ends up being extremely large amounts of data, and to be able to implement things like server-less AI, and artificial intelligence, and machine learning on that data set is time consuming, and having the power of an EMR cluster that is scalable makes that so much faster so that we can then answer our research questions faster and identify those insights and get them to out in the world. >> Gotta love the new services they're launching, too. It just builds on top of it. Doesn't it? >> Yes. >> Yeah, soon everyone's gonna be jamming on AWS in our opinion. Thanks so much for coming on, appreciate the stories and commentary. >> Yeah. >> Precision.heart.org, you want to volunteer if you're a researcher or a user, want to share your data, they've got a lot of data science mojo going on over there, so check it out. It's theCUBE bringing a lot of data here, tons of data from the show, three days of wall to wall coverage, we'll be back with more live coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS reInvent 2017, presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage, live, in Las Vegas, 45,000 people here on the ground, for Amazon Web Services reInvent 2017. Their annual conference. Our fifth year doing it, I got two sets, two cubes, a lot of action. Day two of three days of wall to wall coverage. My next guest, Tom Kemp, CEO, of Centrify, security company out of California in Silicon Valley, leader in identity based security in the cloud, on-prem, big business growing, fast growing startup in the area. Good to see you. >> Yeah it's great to be here again. >> Security has been Amazon's kryptonite for many years. They've done their work, their paying their dues, they're checking the boxes. Certainly we see that on the federal side, public sector. Great success, Teresa Carlson, has done an amazing job. It's been fun watch her go from an outcast to, in the marketplace, "Ah, we don't trust the cloud", to winning. They've done the work. Security, you've gotta do the work. >> Yeah, I mean, they've done a great job of evangelizing the shared responsibiloty model where they clearly identify, "Hey, this is what we do", and then, "This is what the customer needs to do." So it's actually a very nice model that they offer that vendors such as us can slot into. >> And they move so fast but again, security is one of those things, you can't fake it til you make it. Right? (Tom laughs) You can't make it til you make it. Which means, it's hard. What are you guys doing with Amazon now? What's your story here for Centrify? >> Yeah, we're doing a couple of things. So the first thing is that we do privilege management. I mean the reality is is that the keys to the kingdom are in the AWS console in terms of the billing systems, firing up servers, shutting down servers et cetera. A lot of the more recent hacks have been because people have gotten the access to those keys of those systems as well. So we help lockdown the AWS environment and then we also help lockdown the actual servers being deployed on EC2. We provide multifactor authentication et cetera. The other thing that we do is and what we announced just the other day is we've actually moved our platform over to AWS. So before we ran on at Azure, can I say that at this, ah? >> John: That's fine. >> It's okay, yeah, just joking. >> All fair in love and sharing the cloud. >> So now we have a production cloud on AWS and we've also integrated in the marketplace. So there's SaaS billing that people can get as well, which actually is a very unique thing that AWS offers that the other cloud providers don't do. >> Alright, so I gotta ask you, obviously, to me, super exciting show because some of the announcements are really kind of cool and sexy, and some are under the hood geeky, like Lambda. And then you got the cool AI stuff happening, whether it's VR, AR, or recognition, all these cool machine learning, democratized toolkits. So does this help you? I mean Lambda server lists is a dream for a developer. Just, "Oh my God, I don't have to worry about anything. "What's a local host? "I don't need to know what a load balancer is." Does that help you guys or not? >> Yeah it does, I mean the reality is is that the amount of servers and applications, be it server or server-less, the amount of applications, the users that are connecting to it, it just adds more to the potential complexity. And we can, through the power of identity, provide a control plane to give people identity driven security and really allow people to move-- >> But it doesn't replace us. My point is, I guess, if you're locking down servers, this is a value right? >> Yeah. >> EC2 instances. But if the developers aren't using EC2 instances 'cause it's server-less. Are you guys transparent, are you abstracted away? >> So we also then, then integrate into the application and then help facilitate security for the actual users themselves. But look the reality of the situation is is that people are always gonna have a hybrid environment. They still have on-premises, which users have to access that environment. They're gonna have the cloud environment. And it's gonna be heterogenous. So AWS is a clear leader in the cloud but you're also gonna have Azure, Google, and then the SaaS applications as well, which are gonna be used in conjunction with the custom applications people are building. So the one constant-- >> I've been saying, I've been saying this for years, the specialty cloud is a big market. Oracle's a specialty cloud, Microsoft's a specialty cloud, 'cause they have apps for them. They can be different clouds. Multi-cloud is what's coming, would you agree? >> Yeah, and the reality is as companies go through digital transformation they're gonna open up more and more of their applications to more and more users. They're gonna be more and more devices, and that's just gonna lead to identity sprawl, more and more passwords that people have to deal with as well. And that's why in a world in which-- >> How bad is that problem? 'Cause that's a huge problem, at least in my mind. Identity sprawl, explain what that is and how bad is it? And what are the consequences if it's not fixed? >> Well look the reality is 80% of breaches nowadays involve compromised credentials. I mean we had the whole election, Podesta, the DNC, the recent hack of HBO, you had Sony. It always tied into people stealing credentials and people having too many credentials, sharing credentials, et cetera. So the problem that we face as consumers in terms of having too many user names and passwords has now entered into the actual enterprise and we're now in a situation that, yeah, there's an app for that but that means that there's a password for that. So IT is having a hard time controlling who can access what while end users are just dealing with too many user names and passwords as well. So you have identity sprawl, it's difficult to provision access. And then now you have IoT coming onboard and those devices need an identity unto themselves. And probably the thing that excites me most about some of today's announcements is what AWS is doing with IoT. Some pretty cool stuff. >> I mean I think IoT is the trend, AI and IoT, because, to me the data center, and this might be a little bit over the top, but I'll say it anyway. I think private cloud is real, the way Wikibon talks about it but it's still cloud and the cloud looks at these endpoints as edge devices. So a data center is just an IoT device, a big one. >> Yeah. >> Or, a series of devices connected to the network which connect to the cloud. I mean if it's operating as a cloud what's the difference? Private and public. >> Yeah, no, I, I, I-- >> IoT has gotta be connected. That's where identity could be helpful. >> Identity, I mean, 'cause look, every device has an identity beyond just an IP address. I mean some of the attacks have even taken over IoT devices and then pointed them against websites and brought those websites down as well. So users have multiple identities. Devices have identities unto themselves so you've got this kinda n-by-m, you know, situation where you multiply the number of users times the number of devices, and we're told digital transformation, more and more users are coming online connecting to applications. So I think that's a, it's just a great market to be in. >> Tom, great to have you on theCUBE, congratulations on your business growth. What's your secret sauce? We'll end this segment by you just taking a minute to describe to the folks watching why are you doing so good, what's your secret sauce, what are the tailwinds for you, why the success? >> Well the tailwinds are, first of all, identity has become the top attack vector. It's now involved, compromised credentials stolen at NEs is now involved in over 80% of all breaches. And the other tailwind is the whole move to the cloud that just says, introduces password sprawl. And we're very unique in the market in that we can secure both end users and their identities but we can also secure the privileged accounts that are built into the infrastructures of service. The AWS, EC2, IAM-- >> John: The critical resources. >> Yeah, and we do this in a hybrid environment. So, yes, people are aggressively moving to the cloud but you know and I know that still, what, 70, 80% of IT is still on-prem, and it's gonna be a mixed hybrid environment. And we offer both software and cloud services to secure both end users as well as privileged accounts in that environment. >> Alright, the bottom line, the AWS cloud phenomenon. Describe it in a sentence. >> In a sentence? Oh, it's just, the complete consolidation of all IT in a single platform. I mean, it's amazing that every year they announce another couple a hundred new brand new services as well. So it's just like a phenomena that I've never seen before in terms of a vendor aggressively able to come out with new capabilities and deliver more and more features. >> Cloud as an operating system that's what I always say. And I can see it coming together, and they're staying on their track. I gotta give Andy Jassy credit, even though I busted his chops by putting the Gartner slide on there, because that's old guard technically, doesn't match his presentation, so he's gotta fix that. They stay on their line, they're not wavering. They are mission focused. Changing the game, adding value for customers. >> And they're thinking about new app scenarios and I think it was brilliant that, take IoT, there's so many different flavors of operating systems for IoT. They're saying, "Hey, we're gonna come out "with a standard operating system "that you can leverage. "And we're gonna provide device management, "and we're gonna tie it back into the platform." So they're gonna capture the, they're trying to capture the edge. And the good news is stuff like that does provide opportunities for vendors such as Centrify. >> And they surround themselves with a great ecosystem. You guys are doing great in there. I know you're growing but you're soon to be bigger. But Intel, they're doing great with Intel. Intel gets a lift off this, more compute, everywhere. >> Absolutely. >> So even if they, they kind of have to split some of the business, whatever they do, who knows what happens there but Intel wins with this scenario. Amazon's not trying to eat the whole pie, they're sharing. They're sharing the wealth. And they do it, in the case of security again I go back to their shared responsibility model. It provides a great framework where it makes it very easy for vendors such as ourselves to say, "We play here, here, and here." So it makes it great to partner with and the ability for them to actually have SaaS based applications in their marketplace as well. And that's powerful, and no other of the cloud guys have a similar concept. Yeah, you could put AMIs on infrastructure as a service but to actually have a cloud based service tied into the billing system of AWS is incredibly powerful. We're very excited about being a part of that. >> And we will keep an eye on them on the open source side, certainly that's an area we're watching very carefully. Hey the developers love Amazon and that's a good thing. Now the enterprise love Amazon, public sector loves Amazon. Who doesn't love Amazon Web Services? We'll be following that very closely over the course of the next few months and next year, 2018. Of course live here in here in Las Vegas is AWS reInvent 2017. Back with more coverage after this short break. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Welcome back to AWS re:Invent 2017. I am Lisa Martin with theCUBE, our day two of continuing coverage of this event that has attracted 44,000 people. Keith Townsend is my cohost, and we are very excited to welcome to theCUBE family Simon West, the CMO of Cyxtera. Welcome, Simon. >> Thank you, great to be here. >> Cyxtera, a six-month-old company. Tell us about it, what do you guys do? >> Sure, so as you said we are just six months old. It feels longer than that now, born at the intersection of five simultaneous acquisitions. One part of that was the acquisition of 57 data centers and a global co-location business that was formerly owned and operated by Century Link. Into that we've added the security and analytics capabilities of four modern startup software companies, and the vision is to provide a secure infrastructure solution both within our data centers, but interestingly even though I've got 57 data centers around the world, I want to be location agnostic. We recognize that today's enterprises are running multi-clouds, running hybrid environments, so we extend our security solutions on prem and into public clouds which is why we are here at AWS re:Invent. >> Fantastic. >> One of the big challenges that we hear from the enterprise perspective, hybrid IT is that the control that we have internally are very different from the controls that exist in AWS. How do you guys help even that out? >> You are exactly right, we would go so far as to gently suggest that the core method by which we protect access to infrastructure and applications which is still predicated on a physical perimeter is just fundamentally flawed in a 2017 world where your applications are everywhere, your users are everywhere connecting on a myriad of devices. You can't build a wall around that which doesn't exist. You have also obviously, as you say, you've got that problem of hydrogenous platforms, each with their own method of control. Our flagship product in that area is a product called AppGate SDP. SDP stands for software defined perimeter which is an emerging specification born out of the US government's disarm. Now a number of companies are offering software defined perimeter solutions. The basic premise that we hold is that security should be user centric rather than IP centric. A firewall is still predicated on granting access from one IP block to another IP block. The VPN may capture who is coming in, but once you are in, we give you basically unfettered access to flat corporate internal networks and we track you as an IP address rather than as a user. We think we should get more user centric. The user should be at the center of our policy. We think it should be more like cloud in the way we run security so rather than these hardware-based static central chokepoints, we think security should be real-time, it should be adaptive and intelligent, and it should be as agile as the cloud. You build cloud applications that are capable of spawning multiple copies of themselves, auto scaling up and down, moving from availability zone to availability zone yet our typical network security posture is still highly static. When you have some of the high profile attacks that we have seen over the last few months, our ability to change policy, immediately we recognize a problem. A particular operating system, apps in a particular service pack, is incredibly out of step with how agile the rest of our IT is. So more like cloud in terms of the way it operates, and finally we think, and so does the software defined perimeter spec, we think that access needs to be thought of as conditional rather than just a X, Y, yes or no. Jim has access to sensitive financial systems should be dependent on what operating system Jim is using whether Jim is on a coffee shop Wi-Fi network or on a structured corporate network, the time of day, the day of week, our overall security posture. The way AppGate works is when a user tries to access a system, the policy can ingest any one of these different conditional items. It can interrogate the device the user is using for the right software revisions. You can look at environmental variables. It can even look at internal business systems and check anything it can get to via an API, and only if those conditions are met will it provide access to a specific system, and then it can monitor that real time, so if your context changes, you move from a trusted network to an untested network, we can alter access. We can prime for a one time multifactor authentication or take any other steps the user wants. We offer that in cloud, on premise, integrated into our data centers to provide one central policy mechanism no matter what platform you are running on. In the case of AWS, we integrate with features like security groups, like AMI machine tagging, so you can build policy natively out of those Amazon features as well. >> Talk about that transition to this user based approach. I would imagine that a user can migrate their legacy systems into one of your 56, 57 data centers, and then as they start to expand out to the cloud, they have to change their operating model from they may migrate their traditional big firewall into your data center. What does that migration process look like? Is that an application by application spec, network by network? How do I transition? >> You know, it really varies. It feels a lot like I'm an old cloud guy, so it feels a lot like cloud did in the late 00s, in 2008, 2009. We think the software defined perimeter is going to have that big of an impact, a cloudlike impact on network and application security, but the way in which organizations will choose to implement it is going to vary. One of the things we did very early on was to integrate AppGate as a service into the data centers. If you think about co-location environments, when you bring new gear into a data center, you racket and stack it, the very next thing you do after that is drag a VPN back to the corporate office so you can access it remotely, which we would respectfully suggest is not necessarily the best way to do it in 2017 out of the chute. We've then integrated AppGate so organizations can just avail themselves of that as a service, and instantly have a kind of easy on-ramp. One of the big areas we see, and we've seen with customers here at re:Invent is customers who are moving workloads to cloud, and want to make sure that they can have that same sense of fine-grained access control common to those on premises and off premises environments, whether that's at migration or that's just an extension of an app into cloud environments, so it's kind of all over the place. >> Sorry Simon, what differentiates Cyxtera's approach to the software defined perimeter from your competitors? >> A couple of things, it's extremely robust in terms of one, being able to run in multiple environments, so a native AWS version, versions that run natively in other public cloud environments. Obviously we think the ability to offer it deeply integrated into the data centers is important. It's also capable of granting access to more than just web applications. You've got some solutions out there that are really web proxies and that are built for SAS apps and born on the cloud apps. This is more of a fundamental network platform by which you can gain access to any system or application you choose, and finally was introduced the concept of what we call scriptable entitlements which is the ability to interrogate third-party systems via API, and bring back those results as part of the building policy. An example there is we've got service provider customers who are running large multitenant environments. You then have a technical support organization who needs to support a huge multi thousands of servers environment with multiple customers running in multiple VLANs and typically the way you have to do that is a jam box in the middle and then giving these technical support folks access to that entire backend management network which is a security risk. With AppGate, you can actually integrate into a ticketing system and when John in support asks for access to a customer database server, at runtime, we can find out whether there is a trouble ticket open on that box assigned to that rep, and only then will we grant access. We don't grant level network access. We grant access to that specific application. We call it a segment of one, secure and cryptic connection between the user's device and the application or the applications they have access to but to nothing else. Everything else on the network is literally dark. It cannot be port scanned. It doesn't show up at all, so it's a much narrower sense of control, a much narrower sense of access, and again it's dynamic. If that trouble ticket that shut off, the access goes away automatically. We think the integration into business systems is a critical piece of the puzzle and an area where I think we have innovated with AppGate. >> Let's talk about security in depth. Obviously you guys are putting the software security perimeter around the data center, what we would classify as the data center which is kind of disappearing in a sense, and the edge. You talked about end-user protection. Where do you guys pickup and drop off when it comes to MDM, mobile device management, which is much more important now with mobile, and then laptops, desktops, et cetera, and you mentioned third parties, pieces of data center equipment that's not in your data center, like a wind farm. >> Sure, so you are right. We are absolutely moving to the edge. I think we continue to think that the data center will be as important as it ever was. The more cloud we have, the more data centers it needs to run in. The more public cloud we have the more people want to move some of their machines that might have historically run on prem to cloud data centers with low latency direct connect to public cloud environments. If you look at our data center footprint with regard to the edge, we are not just in the major markets, although in major metropolitan markets I've got half a dozen data centers all linked together, but I'm also in markets started across the country, so I've got half a dozen in New York and New Jersey, half a dozen in DC, half a dozen in the Bay Area, but I'm in Tampa, I'm in Columbus Ohio, I'm in Dallas, I'm in Denver, and so that distribution becomes particularly important as more customers move data to the edge. From a security perspective, again, we think of that data center as the nexus of enterprise at IT and the cloud. The data center is where our conversation about security in terms of access control starts. It's a physical security message of biometrics, and ID checks, and so forth, but there, we think is the missing piece of the puzzle. The principal point of ingress and egress into a data center today is not to the front door, the back door, or the loading dock. It's the massively clustered multicarrier network core, so if you are not providing some level of access control in and out of the network, I'd offer you are not providing a truly secure infrastructure solution. We start there. We are focused mainly at this point with AppGate at controlling the conversation between the user device and the system applications themselves. One of our other acquisitions, a company called Cat Bird has done some innovative work in terms of east/west segmentation in virtual environments, which is notoriously difficult otherwise to see, to stop the spread of how machines can talk to each other in a large virtualized forms as well, and so it's the infrastructure where we principally focus. >> Where are we, or maybe where are you guys in this revolution of information security? Are we at the forefront of massive change? What is Cyxtera's view on that? >> I think we are at the beginnings of a revolution that's about 20 years late. If you can kind of carbon date year zero of modern IT at around 1996, which is the advent of the Internet as a commercial and consumer force, that was the revolution for enterprise IT. That was the moment that we had to move IT outside the four walls of the machine room on the corporate campus. Prior to that, the applications all ran on big beige boxes in one room. The users were largely tethered to them by smaller beige boxes in other rooms, and the notion of perimeter security worked. It was a valid construct. As soon as enterprises had to start thinking about an increasingly global user base, as soon as users started to connect from all over the place, the concept of this perimeter goes away. Over the last 20 years, you've seen revolution after revolution and the way in which we design, provision, deploy, manage and operate our business applications, our development frameworks, and our infrastructure. We've revolutionized for availability. We've revolutionized agility. We've turned IT into a real-time API driven motion, and we've revolutionized for scalability with platforms like AWS just industrializing this real time IT on a global scale, and if you took a systems administrator from '96, and you showed them IT today, I think you have some explaining to do. If you took a security administrator from 1996 and showed him 2017, I think the construct would be familiar. We are still hardware driven in a software defined world. We are still assuming that access is static, that it's never changing, that it's predicated on the users being someplace, the applications being another, and again, in a world of real time IT, a world in which our underlying application footprint changes without any human intervention whatsoever, and I think you see with WannaCry, with NotPetya, with all of these attacks, the commonalities that they have in the terms of the reason they were so devastating is one, they take advantage of lateral spread. They take advantage of riding an authorized access into a corporate network where port scans show up 10,000s of ports where you can rattle the handles, break the locks, and spread like wildfire, and two, in the case of something like WannaCry, days after we realized what the problem was, we were unable to simply alter as an institution, as an industry, or as an enterprise access policy at the press of a button until we could get things patched. We had to sit, and wait, and watch the fires continue to burn, so it's a question of security being insufficiently agile, insufficiently automated and adaptive, and insufficiently software driven. We think that is just starting. I think on the SDP side, we've noticed in the last six months the conversation changing. We've noticed customers who now have SDP mandates internally who are seriously starting to evaluate these technologies. >> Wow, it sounds like Cyxtera is at the beginning of being potentially a great leader in this security revolution. We wish you, Simon, and the entire company the best of luck. We thank you so much for joining us on theCUBE, and we look forward to hearing great things from you guys down the road. >> Much appreciated, thank you both. >> Absolutely, for my cohost, Keith Townsend, I'm Lisa Martin. You are watching theCUBE's continuous coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017. Stick around guys, we will be right back.