(upbeat music) >> Live from Las Vegas. It's the Cube. Covering, Boomi World, 2018. Brought to you by Dell Boomi. >> Hello everyone, welcome to the live Cube coverage here in Las Vegas, the Wynn Hotel for Dell Boomi World 18. So, exclusive coverage. We're here all day. Wall to wall coverage covering the impact of cloud native to application developers and owners and for businesses. I'm John Furrier with Lisa Martin here. We're here with Michael Dell. 13th time on the Cube. He's the founder and CEO of Dell Technologies. Continuing to defy logic. Growing leaps and bounds. Continuing to do more in the new era of IT and computing. Mike, great to see you. Thanks for coming. >> Great to be with you. Lisa, John, always fun. And here at Boomi World it's really exciting to see the ecosystem continue to grow. As people try to connect everything together Boomi is right there. Incredible business last quarter. Booking growth, 80%, 7500 customers. I still can't find a customer that doesn't need Boomi. The team continues to evolve what the capabilities. We've just had a great show here. 1000 customers showed up. Lot's of great customer stories about how they're integrating all their apps and data together. With the tsunami of data that is coming, it just gets more and more important and interesting and fun. >> You know, you mentioned on the key note stage with CEO Boomi, talking about some performance numbers that you always throw out, server growth. Continuing to grow, okay. The pundants were saying oh servers, that's cloud server-less. You still need compute, networking and storage but they do change with the cloud and SaaS has proven that business model of as a service is key. Boomi's got this little secret weapon around the unified platform that integrates a lot of these traditional components that is still going to be foundational but yet set up the next wave around AI, Edge, data tsunami that you mentioned. This is a key variable in the architectural shift. Can you talk about how you see that playing out? Because you got a couple big pieces on the chess board. VMWare, the continuous Dell Technologies portfolio kind of as the table stakes. This is kind of interesting new architecture. Explain how you see that. >> Pivotal, Dell EMC, VMWare. >> So a lot of pieces. >> Right. >> How does Boomi play into that? Because if it does be a glue layer if you will for lack of a better word, it can be very powerful. >> Yeah, so the challenge is when you go to Software as a Service, how do you connect the things together? Now, connecting 1 or 2 together is pretty straight forward. But when you start having 50 or 100 of these things, and then you've got on premise systems and now you want to have actions like an employee does something and based on their roll then something else happens, you have work flow. And then you get this, you go from a couple billion PCs to 5 billion smart phones to 100s of billions of connected things out there with this explosion in the edge. How you integrate and connect everything together with work flow and do it securely is super, super important. So we're seeing just an explosion of use cases. There was some great examples from a city digitizing and being able to detect leaks and when traffic lights aren't working. The used cases are pretty unlimited and Boomi and Pivitol play sort of at the top layer for us so the applications and integrating all the data and allowing customers to express their competitive advantage with software and data and AI and machine learning. And then of course we've got VM Ware to virtualize everything from the data center to the network and beyond. With NSX, what we're doing with NFE and software to fine win. And then of course we're the initial infrastructure company. Absolute number 1 in all aspects of the data center. And growing much faster than any of the competitors. >> And I want to also get your thoughts on VM Ware announced up to this morning, actually Barcelona time for VM Ware Europe, the acquisition of Heptio. >> Absolutely. >> Okay, Pat Kelson said in VM World, we're going in, we're going to make Kubernetes the dial tone. This is a key architectural component around orchestration. Containers certainly everyone knows, that's been standardized. People love containers. They're using them. As applications need to be more efficiently built out, out of the Boomi's value proposition, Kubernetes and these cloud native things are super important. What's your view on that? Great acquisitions, very young company? Not 34 billion dollars for a Red Hat like IBM bought but a small tuck in. How important is that trend for you? >> Well, think about what we've done with Pivitol and VM Ware together with the Pivitol container service and now adding Heptio with 2 of the 3 founders of the whole Kubernetes movement. We're going to be making Kubernetes just part of the dial tone of vSpheres. So for virtually all the customers out there, 600000 of them that use vSphere, it'll just be super easy to now have Kubernetes containers built into their vSphere environment. That's the vision. We've got a great team working on it across VM Ware and Pivitol and now the Heptio team. Adding to it. We're super pumped about all this. >> If your friend asked you at a party this weekend, hey Michael, why is Kubernetes important? What do you say to that? >> I guess it would depend on how much they know about this. >> They're a business owner responsible for application development. >> Yeah. >> They are owning to transform their organization. They realize clouds going to be a part of it. They here Kubernetes really popular, it's trending. But it's a technology. A lot of people are now getting this for the first time and seeing it as the early dopples have shown it. They try to want to know the impact and why it's important. Why is Kubernetes important as you start to get into this orchestration of apps and work loads across clouds. Why is it important? >> I think people don't want to get locked in to a particular place when it comes to their infrastructure. Kubernetes has clearly won the battle in terms of being able to be that abstraction layer. That's the simple thing that is super exciting. When it sort of went from cloud to hybrid cloud to multi cloud, people realized they wanted a 2 way street where they could move things back and forth. And now with the edge, they want to move it to the edge. With the distributed core. This explosion in data, this dat tsunami really requires a whole new set of tools in terms of the software infrastructure to be able to make it all work. >> So transformation is ... You're talking about Dell Technologies now. 34 years later you have 7 corporations under that. Done a lot to keep those brands, as they're very valuable. Dell Boomi as a business unit. Transformation is essential and Dell Boomi wants to be the transformation partner. It's also incredibly difficult. IT transformation. Digital, security, workforce. Dell Boomi works and Dell Technologies with a lot of large enterprise organizations that are still probably fairly not as well connected as they should be to find new value, new business dreams. How do you talk with customers, large enterprises that need to transform to stay competitive? Where do they start? And how dose the Dell transformation story in and of itself help those customers feel confident in what Dell Technologies can deliver? >> Right, well first thing I'd say is we actually work with customers of all sizes. We have an enormous business with small and medium and large customers. We're number 1 across the whole spectrum. We serve 99% of the Fortune 500. Since your question is about those types. They're looking at the digital transformation and figuring out this is really not an IT project. It's about technology becoming pervasive in everything that they're doing. From sells to marketing, to product creation to their whole fundamental strategy. So then it shows up in the office of the CEO and business line executives and they're having to reimagine. And so they look for a partner and Dell Technologies is very unique. 2 years and 2 months ago we put together all these companies and it's been fabulous. We've been growing double digits consistently and the response has been great because we can deliver a complete set of capabilities. Now you're right, change management, and how do I do it in my company, that's a big deal. So they're pulling on us to bring them more of a ... The don't want us to show up with a bunch of parts and drop em off. They want us to actually build them a solution that is specific to their needs. Help them implement it. In many cases, run it for them. So we do much of that ourselves with our own services organization. 60000 plus people in our services organization. And of course we have the best, all the great SIs out there that are helping customers implement and run and manage like I said, 99% of the Fortune 500. We're right there with them in this digital transformation. Of course we do the IT, the workforce, the PCs and of course security. Unbelievably important. Your whole brand trust is all based on that so we wrap the whole thing with security and no company has the breath that we have. I think we've kind of won the hearts and minds of the decision makers because of the capabilities that we have. Not that we take it for granted. We have to go earn that trust every single day. We have unbelievably talented people in our company. Over 20000 engineers. Scientists, PHDs. About 90% of them are software engineers. This is a very different company than it was 5 or 10 years ago. We're having a blast. It's a rocket ship, so. >> I had a chance to interview an IT leader and his name is Allen Bean. He's the global CTO and head of IT innovation at Proctor and Gamble. He brought the cloud to Coca-Cola. Has had a career all in IT going back to DHL in the 90s and 80s. So we were talking and I asked him, does IT matter. And Dave Alampi always brings up the book by Nick Carr. And we always talk about it. >> Love it. Such a fun topper, yeah. >> And so he says, quote, at that time some people thought it didn't matter, everyone was kind of complaining, but he says it does matter. It's a competitive advantage. And over the decades IT was outsourced. And now people are trying to bring that back in and make it a competitive advantage. This is now ... It's a mandate basically. So as people who have been kind of anemic with IT, they've got people running stuff but eventually outsource all the value. They got to bring that value in. Cloud is that opportunity. How do you respond to the leaders out there trying to figure this out. What are the keys to success around bringing back the competitive advantage and using the cloud for things that aren't core to the core competency but getting that core competency nailed down. What's your vision. >> Yeah, well, look, I mean, it's all about understanding what is your competitive differentiation and advantage as a business. And if you give that away to somebody else, you're going to be out of business in not too much time. Packers applications are great for things that aren't differentiated. But if you actually do something that's unique and valuable and special and you can't express that in software with your own data, you're going to have a problem, right? This is what companies are figuring out. This is what we're doing with Pivitol and Boomi allowing companies to build all this together. And look I think as it relates to cloud, customers have figured out it's multi cloud, right? It's a workload dependent discussion. Some workloads are great in the public cloud but in many cases, not so much, right? As we've modernized and automated the infrastructure we have customers that tell us hey our private cloud for our predictable workload, which is 90%, is 5, 6 times less expensive than AWS. We're building these converge, hyper converge, like the fast track to the automated modernized infrastructure. And look, you can decide. But we're seeing customers that want to move things back and forth and we're seeing a bit of a boomerang. Where customers have said oh everything you upload to the cloud, and no, not everything. >> And the digital transformation really is making IT a competitive advantage. So I had a long ranging interview. It's up on YouTube. I asked him a final question. I always said, okay, so you know, he's transforming Proctor and Gamble. I said okay, as you look ads and all those things what's the next mountain that you're going to climb? You're an IT pro, you said in the agenda. And I'll read you the quote. I want to get your reaction. He said, "I think we're looking forward. Latency is still an issue. We have to find ways to defeat latency and we're not going to do it through basic physics, we're going to have to change out business models, change our technology, distribution, change everything that we're doing. Consumers and customers are demanding instant access to enhanced information through AI and machine learning right at the point when they want it." So this is his next mountain. This is kind of what you were talking about on the stage here at the Dell Boomi event around the impact of AI and data. What's your reaction to that quote? >> Well to me this is all about the edge and 5G coming around the corner. And you look at all the big telcos. They're all piling in on 5G because it's 1000 times faster and 1000 times less latency. That's going to be a big turbo charge. The rocket ship. And it will just create an explosion in data and compute on the edge. And a lot of it's going to stay on the edge. Because you'll have these edge devices talking to each other. A whole new class of applications and capabilities because of that. That's super exciting. We're already seeing it with this build out of distributed core. And that's why we see so much growth in the data center business. >> So Michael, Dell Boomi, if you look at Boomi for a second, was named by the Gartner Magic Quadrant of 2018 as a leader in Ipads. Today they talked about ... >> Again, I think 6th or 7th year in a row. It's been there for quite some time. >> An established leader in an established market. But today they were talking about, hey we want to change the, we want to redefine the I in Ipads to intelligence. How is Dell Technologies and Boomi particularly starting to leverage terra bites and terra bites of customer meta data to make your systems smarter? To enable businesses to truly connect. Prim, edge devices as things continue to get more distributed and data becomes more critical? >> Yeah, so, the key to AI and all of its variance of machine learning, deep learning neural network is the data. The data is the fuel for the rocket ship of AI. And the challenge is, if you have your data spread out in 100 softwares of service providers and 3 public clouds and here and there and where's all your data? We don't really know. How do you fuel the rocket? It becomes a very difficult problem. This is the problem that we're beginning to address for our customers. We're going to have an event all about AI coming up I think next week. Where we're going to be talking much more about this. We got a number of offerings that we're rolling out. We've been helping customers for years build their data lakes and curate the data. And of course Pivitol and Boomi are essential to how you bring all of this together and make sense of it. Because if you just have all the data but you can't actually use it. If you're not already using AI and it's variance to improve your products and services, you're doing it wrong. We've identified over 450 projects just within Dell Technologies internally. As I mentioned on stage, we've sold about 700 million computers since I started in my dorm room. We have enormous telemetry data. Imagine, if you will, that something doesn't work exactly the way it's supposed to. Okay? What's the chance that has never happened before? >> Zero. >> The answers almost zero, right? Our job is to take all this data that we have, use all this intelligence and actually prevent it from happening. So we're building all kinds of intelligence and AI and preventative technology into all of our solutions from the data center to the desk top to the edge, to the multi cloud so that all these systems are just self healing and auto magically way more reliable. >> Auto magically, I like that. It just sounds like what you're saying is Dell Technologies articulating it's value and it's differentiation because you're using that data. >> You have to. >> To identify insight, to take action immediately. >> And to your point about the big companies, they have an advantage but it's a bit of a time value expiring advantage. They have the data that the new entrance don't have. >> Right. >> But they have to activate it quickly with this new computer science or else they'll be dinosaurs, right? Nobody wants to be a dinosaur. >> Michael, what's the business drivers, and you talk to customers all the time, that they're seeing and that matter most to them. Is it agility, is it transform the customer employee experience, compliant security? How would you view the pattern around the most important business driver for your customers that are trying to put the business transformation together with digital. Could you comment just anecdotally what you see? >> I think every customer is a little bit different in their journey. Some customers, security is number 1. Because of the kind of business that they're in and it just has to be that way. For other customers it's how do I increase my speed to the solution. It used to be we need a new feature. We'll get it in a year or 2. How about never. Does never work for you? That's kind of the old IT. Now with agile development you've got, what we're doing with Pivotol cloud foundry, you've got companies implementing, these are giant companies. Biggest companies in the world. They're implementing new things like in 2 or 3 weeks. It's amazing how fast. Speed and as a chief executive, that's what you crave. How can I take this new requirement that I heard from the customer and turn it into a feature that I can go offer very, very quickly? That's what you want to be able to do. It's what we used to be able to do when we were little tiny cubs. How do you do it with 200000 people? >> I want to get your thoughts on a trend that you popularized early on in your career, the direct business model, you also had the just in time manufacturing kind of ethos of build it, build to order, really streamline efficiency. So I want to kind of take the leap to now a new generation with cloud native where you have workflows and efficiencies. You have integration. So in a way the customers are now going direct to their customers and wanting to compose and build solutions. As you said on stage, these are going to be new problems that not yet have been identified. New solutions. So that customers have to be what you did. They got to build their own. So they got to build their own, they got to have the suppliers, they got to have the code. How do you see customers being successful if they want to take that efficiency approach? Kind of be 5 nines if you will in this new modern era. Because this is the challenge that they have. They have to build their own. They need suppliers. They need you guys. How do you see the customers being successful in that scenario? >> Yeah, I think what they're trying to do is shrink the time from when at that point of customer interaction, they can use the data to make the service and the product better and if it's like this lengthy value chain with all these different intermediaries and it takes weeks or months or never, that's just way too slow. They want it to be like instantaneous. How do they create that direct relationship with their customers? I only had 1000 dollars when I started so we couldn't really afford much so each dollar you invest very carefully. We just kind of out of necessity came up with some ideas that ... >> You were efficient because you had to be. >> We didn't have any choice, right? >> So when we talk about integration, we talk about it's the foundation of digital transformation, we've talked about IT, security, workforce. One of the things that you mentioned earlier that I'd like to get your perspective on, a different view of transformation is cultural. An enterprise organization as you mentioned has a huge advantage of a tremendous wealth of data. With that amount of data and the need for speed as you just talked about, where, in your opinion, and your experience, is cultural transformation as an enabler of an enterprise to really be able to react that quickly to develop new products, new revenue strengths? >> Yeah, I think it's a big challenge. And a lot of customers struggle with change management. You never want a good crisis go to waste. We sort of grew up in the business where it was change or die, quick or dead. If you don't do it you're gone, right? This was just the way our business, this was just how we had to compete. It's what we grew up in. And I think what's happened is more and more businesses are that way now. It requires the business leaders to say hey friends, we've got a real challenge here and we've got to move faster. It is change or die, it's quick or dead, I think for all businesses because this is the fastest time ever but it's the slowest time relative to the future. It's just going to get faster and faster. If companies ... The only way you get good at change is to do it more frequently. And so if you've never changed anything for 80 years in your company and all the sudden you start trying to change, it's really hard. You just have to start. >> How do you inspire say employees at Dell Technologies who've been with you for a very long time to be able to be open and agile themselves to help facilitate this transformation? >> I believe we built it into our culture that they understand that change is good as opposed to change is bad. If you fear something well then it's bad, right? We precondition people to say okay we're going to change something. Not to say every time we change something it works perfectly. We make mistakes, we learn, we trial and error. That's all fine. Fail fast. But you need a culture where you can embrace change. No question about it. I think a lot of companies that didn't really have that are figuring that out and either by crisis or by leadership or by some combination they're then forced into it. For me, it's what we grew up in. Because hey it's a tough world out there. >> Mike, I want to ask you a final question. Thanks for coming on and spending the time with us. Great interview here. Good length. Recently in the news with a lot of commentary from us as well as the industry around IBM buying Red Hat. I made a comment around the innovation piece of this and I want to get your thoughts on that because when you bought EMC, it was a merger of equals. You integrated that and the growth that you've been successful since then, I want to get your perspective. I want you to take a minute to explain to folks watching, when you did the merger equal with EMC, what happened? You've been successful integrating the organization. What innovative things have you done since the EMC merger of equals? Take a minute to explain, again, there's a lot of moving pieces on the table. You got VM Wares, you got Pivitol, you got Boomi. A lot of moving parts in your plan. You've been successful with the numbers. Financial performance shows it. Take a minute to explain what happened, where's the innovation coming out of Dell Technologies? >> So in hind sight, it looks pretty obvious, right? You take the leader and servers and the leader in storage and you say hey infrastructure hardware goes together. And by the way, if you have the leader of infrastructure software, VM Wares, you put that all together. Wow, that'd be really great. And turns out it was. It was actually much better than we thought. And so customers have really bought into that and then with Pivitol and Boomi and Rsave, Virtustream, Secureworks etc., we have such a complete set of capabilities that customers have said, hey, why do I want to buy from 20 smaller less capable companies and integrate it myself versus you guys will just do all this for me. If they were buying from 2 or 3 or 4 parts of Dell Technologies they'll say, well, why don't we just take the others, right? We been picking up huge amounts of share across the whole business. I'm talking about like 10s of billions of dollars of growth here. There's clearly a consolidation going on in the kind of existing parts of the industry but we've also got massive investments in the new cloud native parts and software defined, and security. It's been a real blessing to be able to pull all of these teams together. We had this relationship with EMC going back from 2001. We were very early supporters of VM Ware. We had a theory of victory and it's played out very well. The teams have really gelled enormously well and the customers have continued to give us their trust. >> I think, first of all servers, storage, networking is never going away. It's the holy trinity of anything in computing. Just looks different and consumes differently. But I think people underestimate the execution innovation that you guys have done. You didn't skip a beat. VM Ware didn't skip a beat. So things have happened, so that was a challenge of the integration. >> Not everybody predicted that it was going to go that way. It's actually gone much better than even we had planned. The revenue synergies have been much larger. >> Well congratulations and thanks for taking the time on the Cube. Michael Dell is here inside the Cube here at Boomi World 18. Dell Boomi World. It's the part of Dell Technologies. We think of them being the power engine for data processing, data growth, powering AI, integrating all the application workloads. I'm John Furrier with Lisa Martin. Stay tuned for more coverage after this short break. (upbeat music) >> Since the dawn of the cloud, the Cube has been there. Connected.

>> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco. It's the CUBE. Covering Red Hat Summit 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. This is the CUBE. We're here in San Francisco live, wrapping up our third day of coverage at Red Hat Summit 2018. I'm John Furrier. Great event and here, our special guest appearance as our closing analyst. I've been here all week with John Troyer. He had to leave early to get down to San Jose. John Troyer is the co-founder of TechReckoning, which is an advisory and community development firm and in his place we have Keith Norbie who's the Senior Manager at NetApp, doing business development, DevOps pro, former solidifier, really at the heart of the NetApp that's transforming. Here as my guest analyst, welcome, welcome to the CUBE. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Thanks for coming in and sharing your knowledge. And to wrap up the show, really a lot going on. And I know you've been super busy. You had an appreciation of that last night with NetApp. You had customers there. But I really wanted you to come on and help me wrap up the show because you're also at the kernel of DevOps, right, where DevOps and storage, we were talking last night about the role of storage, but that's just an indication of what's going on across the board of all resources. Invisible infrastructure is the new normal and that is what people want. They want it to be invisible but they want that highly performant, they want it scalable. So roles are changing, industries are changing, application development is changing. Everything is changing with cloud scale at an unprecedented level and Red Hat is at the center of it with the kernel Linux operating system. It's all about the OS. >> Yeah. >> That's my takeaway from the show. What's your takeaway, what's your analysis here of Red Hat Summit? >> Well first off, you know, 7,000 people is a heck of a lot of growth. In some of the birthplaces of VM world, we have the new birthplace of open being real, and Red Hat's been the really the true company that's taken open and done something with it. >> What's the big, most important story for you here this week? What jumps out at you that jumps off the page and says, wow, that's happening, this is real, obviously open source, going to a whole 'nother level, the cat's been out of the bag for awhile on that, but really, it's just about the exponential growth of open source, Linux Foundation's Jim Zemlin talks about this all the time, so okay, that's not to me the most important, so that's just reality. >> Yeah. >> But what jumped off the page for you here? >> I think they said it best in one of the keynotes where they went from this being a concept of cheap to a concept of being functional or capable. So it's the c-to-c transition of cheap to capable and it is about trying to unlock the capabilities of what this show delivers, not just on Red Hat's platform but across the ecosystem. And as you see that play out in any one technology sector, you know, we've been talking DevOps which I think has been a phenomenal study in and of itself saying you know, we've gone from a lot of thought leadership a lot of, if you go to DevOps Enterprise Days, they'll talk a lot about culture and operational things to now seeing a maturation in the industry to actually have, you know, some very specific capabilities and customer (mumbles) models. >> I think the thing that jumped out, for me, Keith, I want to get your reaction to it, is that DevOps ethos, which has been around for awhile, not a lot, you know, a couple years, eight years maybe, since cloud really native really kicked in. But the ethos of open source, the ethos of DevOps, infrastructure as code is not just for software development anymore because as the things that are catalyzing around digital transformation, with Kubernetes becoming a defacto standard, with the role of containers, with server-less and all this infrastructure being programmable, the application market is about to go through a massive Renaissance, and you're seeing those changes rendered in the workplace. So the DevOps and open source ethos is going everywhere. It's not just development, it's marketing, it's how people manage their businesses and work force structure. You're seeing blockchain and decentralized applications on the horizon. This new wave is not just about DevOps for infrastructure as code, it's the world as code, it's business as code, it's everything as code so if you're doing anything with a waterfall, it's probably outdated. >> Yeah, everything has its different pace and its cadence in different industries and that's the hard thing to predict for everybody. Everybody that's coming here from different walks and enterprises of life is trying to figure out how to do this. And that permeates out into, you know, vehicles and IoT edge devices, back to the core part of the data centers and the cloud and you've got to have answers for really the three parts of that equation in different modes and ultimately equal a business equation, a business transformation. >> What did you learn here? I'll just tell you my learning, something that wasn't obvious that I learned that's validated in my mind and they didn't talk about it much on stage in Red Hat. Maybe they do off the record, maybe it's confidential information, maybe it's not. But my observation is that the Red Hat opportunity is really global. And the global growth of Red Hat, outside the United States and Europe is really where the action is. You look at Asia and third-world countries with mobile penetration. The global growth for Red Hat and Linux is astronomical. To me, that clearly came through, when I squint through the puzzle pieces and say, okay, where's the growth coming from? Certainly containers, Linux containers is going to be bigger than Rel, so that's going to be a check on the financial results. That's good growth. But it's really outside the United States. I'm like, wow, this is really not just a North America phenomenon. >> Yeah, and really, demand is demand. And at NetApp we see this in APAC almost more so than a lot of the other parts of the world. The pace of innovation and the demand for innovation you know, just kind of finds its way naturally into this market. You know, this whole community and open source approach you know, sort of incubates a lot more innovation and then the pace of the innovation, in my opinion, just by natural fellowship of these people. And the companies trying to innovate in the segment with these things. >> So what did you learn this week? What was something that you learned this week that you didn't know before or you had a hunch or you validated it here? What is something that's unique that you could share that you've learned or validated or have an epiphany? Share some color commentary on the show. >> Yeah, I think there's a little bit of industry maturation, where this technology isn't just like a Linux thing and a thing for infrastructure people trying to do, you know, paths or container automation or something technical. But it's equating out to industry solutions like NFE and Telco is a great example, you know, where all of us want to get to a 5G phone, and the problem is, is that they've got to build a completely reprogrammable, almost completed automated edge cloud type of network. And you can't do that with appliances, so they have to completely reprogram and build a new global scale of autonomy on a platform and it's awesome how like complex and how much technology is there and what it really comes down to is us having a faster phone. (laughter) It's amazing how you have all that, and it equals something so simple that my 14-year old daughter, you know, can have a new obsession with how fast the new phone is. >> I mean, (mumbles) digital transformation in all aspects, IoT edge, you mentioned that, good stuff. I got to ask you, while you're here, about NetApp, obviously, SolidFire, a great acquisition from NetApp, some transformation going on within NetApp. What's going on there? You guys got a good vibe going on right now, some good team recruiting. You guys recruit some great people, as well as the SolidFire folks. What's going on in NetApp? >> Well, yeah, I was part of the SolidFire team and that was a great group of people to really see the birth of the next generation data center through that lens of the SolidFire team. As we've come to NetApp now, we've really seen that be able to be incubated into the family of NetApp, really into three core missions, you know, modernizing data centers, you know, with an all flash approach to the ONTAP and FAS solutions, taking the SolidFire assets and really transforming that to the next level in the form of an HCI solution, you know, which is really to deliver simplicity for various consumption of economics and agility of operations within an organization. And then, you know, having that technology also show up in the marketplace at Amazon and Azure. And this week we announced Google. So it's been fun to see, not just the SolidFire thing come to life in its own mission, but how that starts to federate in this data fabric, you know, across three different missions. And then when it really gets exciting, to me, is how it applies into things that help people transform their business, like we talked DevOps and unlocking that and some of the config automation with Ansible, unlocking it some of the things with open shift that we're doing with Trident in the container automation across three of our platforms. And then seeing how this also comes to life with other factors with code and RD factory management or CIC piplup Jenkins. It's about tying this entire floor together in ways that makes it easy for people to mature and just get more agile. >> And it's a new growth for the ecosystem. We're seeing, you know, some companies that try to get big venture-backed financing, trying to monetize something that's hard to do if you're not Linux. I mean, Linux's a free product. It's all about Linux and the operating system. So, Linux is the enabler. >> Absolutely. >> To all of this and whoever can configure it in a way that's horizontally scalable, asynchronous and with microservices architecture wins the cloud game, 'cause the cloud game is just now creating clear visibility. The role that open source plays, being open I mean, look at the role that Hypervisor closed and proprietary, harder to innovate in a silo. If you're open, innovation's collective, collective intelligence. >> And I thought that one of the keynote demos, on Day One, Tuesday morning, to me, was one of the more powerful ones, where they showed a VM environment being transformed into container automation. Like literally a SQL environment being on into a container-based environment from previously being in a VM environment. And traditional IT doesn't have to do a whole lot of heavy lifting there. You know, people want that ability, kind of inch into it and then transform at their own time scale. >> Yeah, I think the big takeaway from me here in the show to kind of wrap things up is Red Hat has an opportunity to leapfrog the competition in way that's not a lone wolf kind of approach. It's like they're doing it with a collective of the whole. The second thing that jumps out at me, I think this is really game-changing for the business side of it is that because they're open with Linux and the way the ecosystem's evolving around cloud, the business issues that enterprises face, in my opinion, is really about, how do I bring in the new capability, okay of cloud, cloud scale and all asynchronous new infrastructure and applications without killing the old? And containers and Kubernetes and Openshift allow companies to slow roll the lifecycle or let workloads either live and just hang around or kind of move out on their own timetable, so you get the benefits of lift and shift with containers without killing the existing old ways while bringing in new innovation. This, to me, is an absolute game changer. I think it's going to accelerate the adoption to cloud. And it's a win-win. >> Absolutely. Transform agility. >> Cool, well Keith, thanks for coming on. Any final thoughts from yourself here on the show observations, anecdotes, stories? >> You know, sometimes less is more and this show has, you know, in a lot of ways both gotten more complex, but I would argue also much more simple and clear about directional paths that organizations can take. And that is working backwards from cloud what cloud is teaching the rest of us is that both, you know, functions more so than technology, and agility in terms of the ability to consume at the pace of the business. Those two things are the ways to take all this complexity and simplify it down into a couple of core statements. >> Someone asked me last night, what I thought about the current situation in the industry and I want to get your response to this, and get your reaction. I said, if a company is not making tweaks to their business, they're probably not positioned for success, meaning, with all the new things that have developed just in the past 12 to 18 months, if they're not tweaking something in some material, meaningful way, not like, not completely replatformizing or changing a business model. A tweak, whether it's to their marketing, or their tech or whatever, then they're probably stuck. And what I mean by that is that new things have happened in the past 18 months that are moving the needle on what the future holds. And to me, that's a tell sign when someone says is someone doing well? I just look at 'em. Well, they were kind of just doing the same thing they did 18 months ago. They really, they're talking a game, but they're not changing anything. So if they're not changing anything, it's probably broken. Your thoughts? >> Yeah, it was best said in terms if you look at the the Fortune 100 right now and contrast that with, you know, 10 or 15 years ago and it's a different landscape. And projecting that out another even five years, the rate of acceleration on this is a brutal scale. And so any company that's not thinking through transformation, you know. My kids are the future consumers. You know, they grew up as digital natives. You know, we're all migrants and they just automatically assume all these things are going to be there for them in their rhetoric, in their rationale. And the current companies of today have got to figure that out, you know, and if they don't start now, you know, they might be out of business in five years. >> If you're standing still, you get rolled over. That's my opinion. CUBE coverage here, of course, wrapping up our show here at Red Hat Summit 2018. We've been in the open all week here in the middle of the floor at Moscone West in San Francisco, live for the past three days. All the footage on Silicon Angle.com as to articles from our reporting, the CUBE.net is where all the videos will live and check out wikibon.com for all the research. Keith, thanks for being our guest analyst in the wrap up, 'ppreciate it and congratulations on all your success at as Business Development Exec at NetApp and the SolidFire stuff. Great you coming on. DevOps culture going mainstream. Software's powering the world. This is the programmable world we live in powered by Linux. Of course, the CUBE's there, covering it. Thanks for watching. Red Hat 2018, we'll see you next show.

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Red Had SUMMIT 2018, brought to you by Red Hat. >> Hello everyone, welcome back. This is theCUBE's exclusive live coverage here in San Francisco at Red Hat SUMMIT 2018. I'm John Furrier with my co-host John Troyer. Our next guest is Arkady Kanevsky, Ph.D, Director Software Development at Dell EMC, Service Provider Business Unit. Thanks for joining us, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me here. >> So we were just talking before we came on, obviously great, we're in the middle of the open here in the hall, in Moscone West. But you guys have a definition of service providers. It's very broad. It's obviously Dell EMC, you guys, Dell's tons of equipment that they sell, providing a lot of the equipment What does that, just take a quick second to describe who you guys are targeting, and your role here at Red Hat SUMMIT? >> Sure so we are a small portion within the Dell EMC portfolio and the organization I am in specifically creating a target and a solution for service providers. The service provider, you know the probably best known service providers are telecommunication service providers, AT&T, Verizon, Telestrom, you know all over the world. Very highly regulated areas, and have been around forever, and they are going through the major transformation right now from the 4G to 5G, network age, and so on. But we are also covering the much larger set of the providers. If you can think of the hosted service provider, managed service providers, those are the people who either have as a core of their business, providing the services for their customers. If you can think of the eBay, or Amazon, or Google, they have the services which are, they're running public cloud or not a public cloud for general sense, but for specific purpose which they're delivering, SalesForce, >> Yeah everyone's a service provider. If they're using cloud, they're some sort of service provider right? >> If they're delivering they're volume through the service, then they are the service providers. If you are, you know you have the businesses which are still doing the business the way they were doing before. Banks are not really service providers. They are not them, and yes they communicate with their customers through the portals, but that's not the purpose of their business. >> It's great now in 2018, we are gettin' some clarity on cloud right. We thought maybe it was all into public, now we see that actually there's a lot of use cases for smaller public clouds, hybrid clouds, private clouds depending on peoples needs. I'm curious how the service provider world, specifically like the MSBs, and the telcos of the world, are looking at how, what kinds of clouds they're going to provide, and maybe also how they partner with the bigger clouds. >> So there is a different angle there. So people, a lot of the work being done in a public cloud, initially when they try to do the development of their new application because it's the easiest way for them to do it, but once you hit the next level and you need to deliver it as a service in a special and more regulated environment, where we have certain strict security requirement. You want to protect access to the data. A lot of the time they kind of do the hybrid, go on the hybrid model because it's much more, they have better control of what they're doing. I mean some of the announcement and some of the demos, we showed that today in the keynote today and two days ago, we're clearly demonstrating this kind of approach. So we are partnering with Red Hat over developing the optimized platforms for the development and operation of those applications. All the way from RHEL Linux layer all the way up to OpenShift and beyond? >> All the way, we announced on Monday that we have our seventh joint version of Red Hat OpenStack already bundled. This is the first one where we start providing the workload optimized host, such that customer can choose to optimize from the hardware, to the operating system, to the OpenStack for their specific workload. We have a profile, pre-defined profile for NFE and we have a pre-defined profile for web based application, and of course it's open sourced, and extendible, flexible, and provide what customer expecting for their own use cases. >> How 'about the relationship between Dell, now Dell EMC, now Dell Technologies, and a variety of other things, the relationship with Red Hat. How long, how many years, how deep? How would you describe the relationship time-wise, and just duration, and depth? >> Very happy to, so we start our relationship 18 years ago, in 2001 was the first release of the laptops and the servers with a pre-installed program that on the factory, and Dell, at that time Dell was OEMing that solution for the customers. Over the years since that we started developing more and more solutions for different customer domain. We have HPC based solution, again URL based. We have SAP, we have Oracle, and variety of different Hadoop Open, Hadoop variation of the Hadoop, again on the base RHEL platforms. And most recently the OpenStack over the last five years. At the Dell Technology World last week, we announced all of the OpenShift on bare metal as a joint solution between the two companies. We have the OpenShift on OpenStack which we announced two years ago, still supportable and delivered to our customers. So the goal for us is to provide the flexibility and choices for the customers. >> What's the unique value for customers that you guys bring to the table? What's the unique value with the Red Hat relationship that's the most important? >> So the most important is the robustness of the integrated solutions, and the two companies together standing behind them. So they can go either to Red Hat or to Dell EMC and we together delivering of the solution. It is robust, it is still open and flexible, but it is also optimized all the way from hardware to the top layer of the software for their use cases. >> So customers are concerned, obviously we saw Spectre bug, and all this stuff going on with security. Red Hat customers, they're not micro-coders, I mean they have to upgrade. You guys have to take that responsibility at the hardware level, and some great certification, we know that. Going forward as the stacks become robust from, you know down to the chip level, up through applications, well you've got DevOps, you've got all these cool things happening. How are you guys keeping up with the pace to mitigate security risks and continuing the partnership? What's the story of the customer? What should they know about that particular piece? >> So obviously we are taking care of security on multiple layers from the micro-code, as you pointed out, in the solution partnering not only with Red Hat but with Intel and the hardware vendors to ensure that all of the mitigated, mitigation factors are put into place for security. But most importantly we are providing the tooling to make the benching and fixes in automated way without any disruption to the workloads which customer are running. Or minimizing the disruption for the workload so you can do all of your securities updates and for that matter, upgrades of the solution in such a way that you're minimizing the disruption for your customers. >> Okay so security, obviously hugely important. One of the themes of this event has been talking to the IT audience about kind of up-leveling digital, but you can call it digital transformation, but actually bringing more business value, and that's been really well received here as you realize all the demos, faster time to market, more business value, faster time to value. So as you talk with the customers here, and service providers. What are they asking you as a director of the software stack that has to, that you could look at as just the bottom of the stack, but in fact is hugely important to what they're doing. So what are you having to provide from the Dell side to help that acceleration? >> So the most important thing that our customer looking for is partnership. They're looking for us working with Intel, with Red Hat, and with partners specific to their area, to do together integration, and so we can provide the support and lifecyle of the solutions. >> John T: You're part of the rubber hits the road. They buy the unit, and the system, and the software from you. It better be all integrated and work. >> Correct, so again they go on this Oz with Red Hat because they want to have a flexibility so they can add more things, but what they're looking for, especially teleco providers, they would like Oz to partner all the way down to the next level-up with NFE lenders. The people who are providing them virtualized functions, so they can bring that to the solution and have level of confidence and you know peace of mind, that all of those pieces have been integrated together, validated together, and we have a continuous program where we take care of them of the full upgrade and lifecyle of not individual pieces, but the whole thing. >> Once your customers know about your relationship with Red Hat, want to get to the end of the statement, which is really even important. 'Cause I think this is important. We're seeing more and more security go from chip, to the OS, to the application layer. There's going to be more and more of that, and you got to evolve your relationship and technology. >> Yes. >> What should they know about Dell, Dell Technologies, Dell EMC, Dell proper and that's most important for them to understand, what you guys do for customers. >> So one of the most important things to understand, now we are Dell Technology. We have been Dell Technology for about a year and a lot of the integration pieces start being mature and now we can have a joint integrate solution. One of the big piece of the Dell Technology portfolio is RSA. They're probably the oldest and the most established security company in the world. And we are getting more and more integration of their tool sets into various solutions across the board. And that probably is the unique value which we as a Dell Technology can provide because we have individual pieces which are leaders in their specific field and we can put all of those pieces together to have the value to the customers through one place. >> That's exciting, well thanks for coming on and sharing the insight. We love Michael Dell, been a big fan, and Michael's been on theCUBE many times. He listens, he's probably watching right now. Hey Michael, how are you? Sorry I missed Dell EMC World, or Dell World, but John was there with Stu. Great to have you on. We've seen continuous success and a lot of skeptics on that merger, or the mergers, or the whole thing, and Pivotal just went public. Things are happening. >> Definitely, exciting time to live in. >> Yeah, thanks for coming on. More live coverage here in San Francisco at Red Hat SUMMIT 2018. I'm John Furrier, John Troyer, stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (digital music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering VMWorld 2017. Brought to you by vmware and it's ecosystem partners. (bright pop music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE on day three of our continuing coverage of VMWorld 2017. I'm Lisa Martin. My co-host for this segment is John Troyer and we're excited to be joined by Rob Young, who is a CUBE alumni and the manager of product and strategy at Red Hat. Welcome back to theCUBE, Rob. >> Thanks, Lisa. It's great to be here. >> So, Red Hat and VMware. You've got a lot of customers in common. I imagine you've been to many many VMworlds. What are you hearing from some of the folks that you're talking to during the show this week? >> So, a lot of the interest that we're seeing is how Red Hat can help customers, VMware or otherwise, continue to maintain mode one applications, legacy applications, while planning for mode two, more cloud-based deployments. We're seeing a large interest in open-source technologies and how that model could work for them to lower cost, to innovate more quickly, deliver things in a more agile way, so there's a mixture of messages that we're getting, but we're receiving them loud and clear. >> Excellent. You guys have a big investment in OpenStack. >> Yes we do and even back in the early days when OpenStack was struggling as a technology, we recognized that it was an enabler for customers, partners, large enterprises that wanted to create and maintain their own private clouds or even to have a hybrid cloud environment to where they maintained and managed, controlled some aspect of it, while having some of the workloads on a public cloud environment as well so Red Hat has invested heavily in OpenStack to this point. We're now in our 11th version of Red Hat OpenStack platform and we continue to lead that market as far as OpenStack development, innovation, and contributions. >> Rob, we were with theCUBE at the last OpenStack summit in Boston. Big Red Hat presence there, obviously. I was very impressed at the maturity of the OpenStack market and community. I mean, we're past the hype cycle now, right? We're down to real people, real uses, real people using it. A lot of very, people with a strong business critical investment in OpenStack and many different use cases. Can you kind of give us a picture of the state of the OpenStack market and userbase now that we are past that hype cycle? >> So, I think what we're witnessing now in the market is that there's a thirst for OpenStack. One, because it's a very efficient architecture. It's very extensible. There's a tremendous ecosystem around the Red Hat distribution of OpenStack and what we're seeing from enterprises, specifically the TelCo industry, is that they see OpenStack as a way to lower their cost, raise their margins in a very competitive environment, so anywhere you see an industry or a vertical where there's very heavy competition for customers and eyeballs, that type of thing. OpenStack is going to play a role and if it's not already doing so, it's going to be there at some point because of the simplification of what was once complex but also in the cost savings, it could be realized by managing your own cloud within a hybrid cloud environment. >> You mention TelCo and specifically OpenStack kind of value for companies that need to compete for customers. Besides TelCo, what other industries are really kind of primed for embracing OpenStack technologies? >> So, we're seeing it across many industries, finance and banking, healthcare, public sector, anywhere where there's an emphasis on the move to open source and to open compute environment, open APIs. We're seeing a tremendous growth in traction and because Red Hat has been the leader in Linux, many of these same customers who trust us for Red Hat Enterprise Linux, are now looking to us for the very same reason on OpenStack platform, because much like we have done with Enterprise Linux, we have adopted an upstream community-driven project. We have made it safe to use within an environment in an enterprise way, in a supported way as well, the subscription. So, many industries, many verticals. We expect to see more, but primary-use cases, NFE and TelCo, healthcare, banking, public sector are among the top dogs out there. >> Is there a customer story that kind of stands out in your mind as really a hallmark that showcases the success of working with Red Hat and OpenStack? >> Well there are many customers, there are many partners that we have out there that we work with, but I would say that if you look at some of the, four of out of five of the large TelCos - Orange, Ericsson, Nokia, others that we've recently done business with would be really good examples of not only customer use cases but how they're using OpenStack to enable their customers to have better experience with their cell networks, with their billing, with their availability, that type of thing. And we had two press announcements that came out in May, one is an educational institution of a consortium, a very high profile Northeast learning institutions, public institutions, that are now standardized on OpenStack and that are contributing, and we've also got Oakridge, forgive me, it escapes me, but there's a case study out there on the Red Hat website that was posted on May the eighth that depicts how they're using our product and how others can do the same. >> Rob, switching over a little bit to talking a little bit more about the tech and how the levers get pulled, right, we're talking about cloud, right, another term, "past the hype cycle," right? It's a reality. And when you're talking about cloud, you're talking about scale. >> Rob: Yes. >> We mentioned Linux, OpenStack, and Red Hat kind of built on a foundation of Linux, it's super solid, super huge community, super rich, super long history, but can you talk about scale up, scale out, data center, public cloud, private, how are you seeing enterprises of various sizes address the scale problem and using technologies like the Red Hat and CloudStack to address that? >> So there's a couple things, there's many aspects to that question but what we have seen from OpenStack is when we first got involved with the project, it was very much bounded by the number of servers that you needed to deploy an OpenStack infrastructure on. What Red Hat has done, or what we've done as a company is we've looked at the components and we have unshackled them from each other, so that you can scale individual storage, individual network, individual high availability, on the number of servers that best fit your needs. So if you want to have a very large footprint with you know, many nodes of storage, you can do that. If you want to scale that just when peak season hits, you can do that as well. But we have led the community efforts to de-shackle the dependencies between components so from that aspect we have scaled the technology, now scaling operational capabilities and skillsets as well. We've also led the effort to create open APIs for management tools. We've created communities around the different components of OpenStack and other outsourced technologies - >> Automation a big part of that as well, right? >> Automation as well, so if you look at Ansible, as an example, Red Hat has a major stake in Ansible, and it is predominantly the management scripting language of choice, or the management platform of choice, so we have baked that into our products, we have made it very simple for customers to not only deploy things like OpenStack but OpenShift, CloudForms, other management capabilities that we have, but we've also added APIs to these products so that even if you choose not to use a Red Hat solution, you can easily plug in a third-party solution or a home-grown solution into our framework or our stack so that you can use our toolset, single pane of glass, to manage it all. >> So with that, can you tell us a little bit about the partner ecosystem that Red Hat has, and what you've done sounds like to expand that to make your customers successful in OpenStack deployments. >> Absolutely, so as you're aware, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, we certified most of the hardware, or all of the hardware, OEMs on Red Hat Enterprise Linux. We have a tremendous ecosystem around Enterprise Linux. For OpenStack, this is probably one of the most exciting aspects of Red Hat right now. If you look at the ecosystem and the partners that are just around OpenStack on its own, we've got an entire catalog of hundreds of partners, some at a deeper level than others, integration-wise, business-wise, whatever, but the ecosystem is growing and it's not because of Red Hat's efforts. We have customers and partners that are coming to us saying, we need a storage solution, we're using, you know, NetAMP as an example. You need to figure out a way to integrate with these guys, and certify it, make sure that it's something that we've already invested in, it's going to work with your product as well as it works with our legacy stuff. So the ecosystem around OpenStack is growing, we're also looking at growing the ecosystem around OpenShift, around Red Hat virtualization as well, so I think you'll see a tremendous amount of overlap in those ecosystem as well, which is a great thing for us. The synergies are there, and I just think it's only going to help us multiply our efforts in the market. >> Go ahead John. >> Oh Rob, talking again, partnerships, I've always been intrigued at the role of open source upstream, the open source community, and the role of the people that take that open source and then package it for customers and do the training, enablement. So can you talk maybe a little bit about some of the open source partners and maybe how the role of Red Hat in translating all that upstream code into a product that is integrated and has training, and is available for consumption from the IT side. >> Sure. So at Red Hat, we partner not only with open source community members and providers but also with proprietaries. So I just want to make sure that everybody understands we're not exclusive to who we partner with. Upstream, we look for partners that have the open source spirit and mind, so everything that they're doing that they're asking us to either consider as a component within our solution or to integrate with, we're going to make sure that they're to the letter of the law, contributing their code back, and there's no hooks or strings attached. Really the value comes in, are they providing value to their customers with the contribution and also to our combined customers, and what we're seeing in our partnerships is that many of our partners, even proprietary partners like Microsoft as an example, are looking at open source in a different way. They're providing open source options for their customers and subscription-based, consumption-based models as well, so we hope that we're having a positive impact in that way, because if you look at our industry it's really headed toward the open source, open API, open model and the proprietary model still has the place and time I believe but I think it's going to diminish over time and open source is going to be just the way people do business together. >> One of the things that you were talking about kind of reminded me of one of the things Michael Dell said yesterday during the keynote with Pat Gelsinger and that was about innovation and that you really got to, companies to be successful need to be innovating with their customers and it sounds like that's definitely one of the core elements of what you're doing with customers. You said customers and partners are bringing us together to really drive that innovation. >> Yeah, I couldn't agree more. It's an honor to be mentioned in the same breath as Michael Dell, by the way. But what we see is because of the open source model, you can release early and often, and you can fail early, and what that does is encourage innovation. So it's not only corporations like Red Hat that are contributing to upstream projects, OpenStack as an example or Linux as an example, or KVM as an example. There's also college students, there's people out there who work for Bank of America. Across the fruited plains all over the world. And the one thing that unites us is this ability to recognize the value of our contributions to an open source community, and we think that that really helps with agile development, agile delivery, and if you look at our project deliveries for OpenStack as an example, OpenStack releases a major version of its product every six months. And because of contributions that we get from our community, we're able to release our - and testing, it's not just, contributions come in many forms. Testing is a huge part of that. Because of the testing we get from a worldwide community, we're able to release shortly after a major version of upstream OpenStack because that innovation. In a pure waterfall model, it's not even possible. In an open source model, it's just the way of life . >> So as we're kind of wrapping up VMworld day three, what are some of the key takeaways for you personally from the event and that Red Hat has observed in the last couple of days here in Las Vegas. >> So there's a couple of observations that have kind of been burned into my brain. One is we believe at Red Hat, our opinion is that virtualization as a model will remain core, not only to legacy applications, mode one, but also to mode two, and the trend that we see in the model, that we see is that for mode two, virtualization is going to be a commodity feature. People are going to expect it to be baked into the operating system or into the infrastructure that they're running the operating system or their applications on. So we see that trend and we've suspected it, but coming to VMworld this week helped confirm that. And I say that because of the folks I've talked to, after sessions, at dinner, in the partner pavilion. I really see that as a trend. The other thing I see is that there's a tremendous thirst within the VMware customer base to learn more about open source and learn more about how they can, you know, leverage some of this not only to lower their total cost of ownership and not to replace VMware, but how they can complement what they've already invested in with faster, more agile-based mode two development. And that's where we see the market from a Red Hat standpoint. >> Excellent. Well there's a great TEI study that you guys did recently, Total Economic Impact, on virtualization that folks can find on the website. And Rob, we thank you for sticking around and sharing some of your insights and innovations that Red Hat is pioneering and we look forward to having you back on the show. >> Great to be here. Thanks. >> Absolutely, and for my co-host John Troyer, I'm Lisa Martin and you're watching theCUBE's continuing coverage, day three, of VMworld 2017. Stick around, we'll be right back. (bright pop music)

>> Announcer: Live from New Orleans. It's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2017, brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to New Orleans everybody, this is theCUBE the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. A lot of noise on cloud, a lot of signal on cloud, and we've been unpacking that. I'm Dave Vellante with Stu Miniman. Alexander Kozlyaev is here. He's the Head of IT Architecture at MTS. He's joined by Konstantin Yakovlev, who is the lead System Architect at MTS, a telecommunications company in Ukraine. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. Thank you for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Not Ukraine, in Russia. >> Oh, it's not Ukraine. Oh sorry, just hear Ukraine. >> We had some bad data. We'll make sure to clean that up. >> Yeah, yeah, we have a data quality problem here. Sorry about that. Okay, yes my apologies. Okay, let's start with Alexander. Maybe you could describe MTS and tell us a little bit about the company. >> Yeah, surely. MTS is one of the largest mobile operator in Russia. It represents the Russian market for the last 23 years. So currently, our subscribers in Russia only maybe counted by the number of 80 million. We have subsidiaries in different countries like Belarussia, like Romania, and other countries. So we are putting forward our digital services, cellular services and others. Me, personally, working from the first day of MTS so I'm roughly 20 years in MTS staff, starting as system administrator. >> Okay, so you've seen the evolution of the various backup and we'll come back to that. But I wanted to ask Konstantin, it's a long way to come to a show like this. How are you enjoying the show? What has it been like for you? >> It's a nice conference but main thing for us, I think it's backup of physical servers. Because now we have different systems to backup physical servers and virtual servers. Maybe we hope in the future to join these systems, and have only one backup for all our services. So it's good step for Veeam to make a physical backup also. I think it's main goal for us here in this conference. >> Okay, so that was one of the big announcements this week. Of course, Veeam is oftentimes been pointing out that up until this point has not backup bare metal servers, physical servers as you say, and now that happens. So that allows you to consolidate your backup architecture, is that right? >> Maybe, we hope. It's a first step. It's a first step, so now we have to look how Veeam will backup bare metal servers. >> We would like to harmonize our backup software because currently we have three or more even backup software featuring like Symantec, like Network Error. So we would like to join them, and to choose best of breed of them. Currently Veeam software now can play this role as being the big player like them. >> Alexander, you have the history of MTS. You've seen the backup systems of all from before virtualization. >> Alexander: Yeah, all the way through. >> Can you share with us the MTS backup and data protection journey? >> Backup and data protection journey. Surely, it started from very simple tape drives staying on top of the table. I am personally was who repairing them from jammed tapes and so on, (faint) tape, autoloaders and others, and others. But nowadays, we have a huge amount of data. Okay, it's very big amount of data. So simple tapes cannot operate properly. So we have historically a different software solutions to which we acquired with different companies which were merged with us. So currently, we would like to harmonize all these suite of software features. So the how big way was passed by. >> So from an IT architecture perspective, Konstantin, what are the big challenges in the telecommunications industry in terms of high availability? We hear a lot about always on. What does that mean to your business? >> I think it's maybe always on is not a first main goal today. Maybe for us, main goal is NFE, if you heard about it. It's virtualization of network part of telecommunication company. This is a first and main question. After that, we can talk about always on, and data protection because in telecommunication world, it's very important part of our business. >> Dave: So NF-- >> So just NFE is really about being able to deliver software services to your users. >> I would like to say NFE is being like a tool. But real goal is agility of the business because we are challenging very different range of tasks, and we need to act very fast. So the only way to withstand such threats is to react very fast by means of very flexible infrastructure. So the only way is to build NFE infrastructure NFE radius so. >> It's a shift in mind. >> Yeah, I think back, I worked in telecommunications 20 years ago. Lots of big gear, and cabling, and it's a software world now. NFE is just part of the term to help you deliver agility sounds right. >> Just to (accented) into solutions, which are built everywhere. >> I've talked to many of the large telecommunication vendors over the years. The whole cloud wave, some telecommunication players try to be a cloud provider. Most of them, NFE is an exciting thing they're looking at. How does cloud impact your journey? >> It doesn't impact us very, how to say, I guess. So currently, what do impact us most of all is the need to reorganize our internal processes. Currently we are not cloud oriented in our minds, and our process have other dimensions that our company more than 20 years old. All the processes from the very beginning. So most of them should be re-in full completely and build up from scratch. So currently it's a big, big task, and we are trying to work with that. We are talking with helps, you know the tool. For example, to state the tasks in different ways, to work different, think different as we probably should. >> Where does Veeam fit in? You mentioned you have a lot of different flavors of backup software because you have to support both physical servers and virtual servers. Where does Veeam fit in, and where do you see it going? >> Veeam is our main solution for backup of virtualized systems. In IT, we already virtualized most part of our systems but now we start this NFE process in telecommunication part. So Veeam will play more, and more important role in our life because we start to transform our telecommunication part to move it to IT-like world. In IT, the Veeam is main solution for backup virtual machines. So in all other part of our company, Veeam will start to play this role as a main solution of data protection for the virtual machines. So when more and more virtual servers will appear in our life, Veeam will play more, and more important role. So this is a Veeam role in our life. This is a main solution for backup virtual machines so. >> Yeah, it's got to be more and more reliant on that platform to support your future. >> Less and less physical servers but still as head of one of the division in Veeam said, we cannot virtualize 100%. So always will be some small part of physical servers. >> Okay, good, well we're out of time. Thank you very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Stu: Appreciate it. >> Alexander: Thank you. >> Thank you, thank you very much. >> All right, keep it right there buddies. Stu and I will be back to wrap right after this short break. Be right back. (enlightening music)

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Boston Massachusetts, it's The CUBE covering OpenStack Summit 2017, brought to you by the OpenStack Foundation, Red Hat and additional ecosystem support. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman joined by my co-host John Troyer. You're watching The CUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. Happy to welcome to the program Darrell Jordan-Smith who's the Vice President of Telecommunications at Red Hat. Thanks so much for joining us. >> It's great to be here thank you >> All right so Darrell last year at the show you know the telcos were like all in force. I got to interview Verizon. We're going to have Beth who was on the keynote stage on Monday on our coverage tomorrow. I know they're a Red Hat customer. When I hear at Red Hat summit, there were some really big telcos that are red hat customers. So to tell us why telco and OpenStack you know go so well together these days? >> Well telcos are looking for a open source for innovation. They need to change the way that they deliver services today and modernize their network infrastructure to become more agile, and a lot of them are doing that because of 5G, the next generation of services that they will be deploying over their network infrastructure. They can't do that unless they have an agile infrastructure fabric and an agile software capability to deliver those applications over those networks. >> All right well there's a lot to dig into yet. Let's start with NFV was the use case last year. Well 5G IOT definitely want to get into though but my understanding, I simplified it. NFV is just how the telcos can help deliver via software services they have. I mean think about how your set-top box, I can get channels and I can get certain programming. Is that kind of what you see, and how do they do their business model? >> Yeah traditionally, they bought appliances, hardware specific appliances. They put them in network operation centers and many thousands of those around the world. In the US there's tens of thousands of them. They're really moving more to a software based model where they don't necessarily need to buy a fixed appliance with its own silicone. They're going with commercial off-the-shelf x86 based technology and they're actually deploying that in what I call next generation data centers around Open Compute platform being an architecture, where you're looking at storage, compute, networking in a scalable fashion using open source technologies to deploy that in at massive scale. >> Very different from you think about like cloud might be a place where you have services run but the telcos are pushing services with their software out to their consumers. >> Yeah they're changing the core network infrastructure to support that and at the mobile edge in these network operation centers at the edge, they're making those more agile as well in order to push as many services out closely to the customer but also to aggregate content and data that their customers would acquire. So for example, you take a video clip on your phone, there's no point in storing that in the core of the network. You want to maybe store that at the edge, where maybe some of your friends would share it at that point in time, more efficient ways of drive that. >> I wonder if you can expand a little bit. That that term edge because we hear is that the edge of the network? Is that a mobile device? Is that a sensor for IOT in the telecom world? Is it all of the above? >> Well a lot of people use it is all the above but in the context I'm using it, it's at the edge of the network. It's not the device. That is a whole separate set of conversations, and things reach a very IOT-centric. At the moment, the telecommunications companies want to make the edge more efficient. They want to build clouds around the edge. They want to aggregate all those different clouds, and they want to build agile based infrastructure. So similarly to the way that Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google deliver their services today, they need to get into that space in order to be agile enough to develop and deploy their next generation of applications and services. >> So at this point OpenStack in its evolution with this customer vertical, it seems like we're not only talking about a cloud but maybe a cloud of clouds. >> Yes absolutely, I mean telcos again, they typically have one of everything. They are looking at decoupled solutions in terms of their network-based infrastructure. They want to be able to manage every layer of that infrastructure independently of the other layers in order to drive maximum flexibility and agility into their infrastructure but also so they don't get locked in to any one particular vendor. That's a big, big theme in the telco space. >> So you use the words agility and flexibility. So I in a previous lifetime, I did work with some telecom providers and they were not known for those words of agility and flexibility. We're in a world now with open source, with CICD, we talked about upgradability, a lot of the talk here at OpenStack is about manageability and flexibility and building, putting containers on top. Maybe we can go there next but do you, as you work with your customers and partners in the telecom space. It seems like they've had to have a cultural shift. I see a lot of people from the carriers here, right. They're as long haired and shaggy, and barefoot as any other engineer here at OpenStack summit. Has there been a real cultural shift inside telecom to accomplish this? >> Yeah, there's a real cultural shift that's ongoing. It's got a ways to go. The telcos themselves are engineeringly orientated. So they traditionally have come from an environment where we'll build it and customers will come. Now they're looking at we need to build it quicker and faster in order to attract customers, get them to come and view our services, get them addicted to a certain degree. Maybe the wrong word but to our content. So building sticky services, trying to reduce the churn they have in their business, driving innovation through open source because I think they've realized that innovation isn't necessarily within their own company. It sits elsewhere so which is the new Uber as it were? Which is new Airbnb? What is the new WhatsApp-based application? They want to create a network infrastructure that's flexible enough with all of those attributes through API so those companies can develop innovative next-generation content and services over their network infrastructure, in order to attract and make services sticky for their customers. >> Darrell, I wonder if you can speak to the complexity of the solutions in the telco space? Last year we spoke to Verizon, and they love what they have but they had to choose some glass, walk over some hot coals to be able to get the solution together. These are big complicated solutions. We've talked in general about OpenStack, and trying to simplify some of the complexity but can you speak to some of the how long it takes to roll these out and some of the effort involved for the telcos? >> Well it's it's sort of a walk, a cruel walk run process to a lot of that because A working with open source is very different than what they traditionally have done, and as you mentioned earlier, traditionally they'll buy an application through our appliance. They'll take nine months to deploy in all their centers. Then another three to six months later, they might switch it off. In the software agile world, they've got to condense that sort of 12 to 18 month period down to maybe three or four weeks. They may stand up a service for an event like the Olympics and then take it down after the Olympics. So there's a lot of complexity and change in the way that they need to deliver those services, and that complexity isn't trivial. So it involves delivering quality of service through the deployment of next generation network infrastructure because they are regulated companies. So they've got to maintain that quality of service in order to be able to bill, and meet the regulations that they they have to adhere to in the markets that they operate their network infrastructure. Very different from the Googles, the Facebooks of the world. They don't have that sort of regulation over their head. The telcos do so they have a level of discipline that they need to achieve in terms of availability of their network infrastructure, the availability of their services, the availability of their applications, and that links into a whole quality of service experience for their customers, and linked into their operation systems support, into their billing system and the list goes on, and on and on. So what we found at Red Hat is that, that is not trivial, that is hard, and a lot of the telcos are very engineeringly oriented. It's great working with them because they really understand the difficulties, and the fact that this is particularly hard. They also know that they want to build it and own it, and understand it themselves, because it's their business model. To them, the network is an asset. It's not something that they can just outsource to someone else, that doesn't necessarily understand that same degree of that asset. So they want to get their heads around that. >> So they need that reliability. From the eyes of a service provider how mature is OpenStack right now? Is it in production? Can they trust it? We're a few more than a few years into the OpenStack evolution so where are we in deployment? >> That, number of operators are in deployment. You mentioned one on a few months ago like Verizon. >> Stu: Yeah, AT&T is on stage. >> Absolutely, AT&T-- >> Deutsche Telekom, the headlines sponsored the event. >> Exactly, I mean, and what they're doing is they're starting very pragmatically. They're looking at specific services, and they're building slowly a service upon service upon service so they go from a crawl to walking, then to a run. I think, what we're seeing in OpenStack is not if but when these guys will deploy at mass scale. We're beginning now to see a general acceptance that this is a methodology and or a technology that they can deploy and will deploy in the NFE context. The other thing that's occurring in the space is they're looking at traditional IT workloads. So a telco-based cloud if you want to use that terminology is just as capable of running IT-based workloads and services as well. So a number of them are looking at their own enterprise and running those environments. Some of them are partnering with some of our partners to build OpenStack public cloud instances. So they want to try and attract services to that environment as well. >> It's interesting you point that out. There's been that ebbing flow of can the telco players be cloud as John pointed out. I worked in telecommunications back in the '90s. Agile and fast was not the thing of the day. One of the big companies who had bought a cloud company just sold off lots of their data centers. Do they feel that they're going to compete against the Amazon, Microsoft, Googles of the world? Do they think they'll be service providers? Where do they see is their natural fit in the cloud ecosystem? >> So my role is on a global basis. In North America, they don't want to, I don't think they feel they can compete in the way that you were intimating in that regard. However, where they do think they can compete and since we're going to probably talk about 5G and IOT, that is the area where they see public cloud applications and services being developed. So they're looking at the insurance industry, the automotive industry, the manufacturing industry, and creating an environment where those applications can be built to many many thousands of millions of devices connected to them. So I think the definition of in North America, of a public cloud infrastructure is going to evolve in that direction. In other markets such as Latin America and in Europe, some of the telecommunications companies believe that they can be competitive in that space. So more recently, Orange announced that they're working with OpenStack to deploy public cloud. Telefonica, Deutsche Telekom, China Mobile, America Movil, they're all using OpenStack to try and enter that specific market space. >> Okay, please talk to us about the 5G angles here. Obviously like Mobile World Congress, it was like be number one conversation. When we went to the Open Networking Summit, it was there. You're the first person to talk about it that I heard I didn't, maybe I missed it in one of the keynotes but you know none of our interviews has come out yet. So how does that fit into the OpenStack picture? >> So 5G is the reason why telcos are building NFEI, that they were NFE because they realize that to connect all of those devices to their network-based infrastructure, they need to do it intelligently, they need to do it at the edge, and they need to have a high degree of flexibility and agility to their network-based infrastructure to create an innovation environment for application developers to connect all those devices. So we talked about smart cars as a good example around 5G. You need low latency, you need the high availability, you need to be reliable, you need to provide all of that network infrastructure as an example plus you need a portfolio of developers that are going to create all sorts of different applications for those vehicles that we driving around on the street. So that without 5G, that does not happen. You're not, you know some metropolitan areas, the amount of connectivity that you have access to in terms of the traditional cloud-based access networking infrastructure doesn't facilitate the amount of density that 5G will actually facilitate. So you need to be able to change the basis in which you're building that infrastructure to lower the cost of the network in terms of being able to drive that. >> All right and I'm curious I think about the global reach we were just talking about. Usually, the global reach of a new technology like 5G lags a little bit in the rest of the world compared to Western Europe and North America. >> Well, I think in Asia, 5G is, if I look at what they're trying to do, the leading vendors ZTE, Samsung, Huawei, they're heavily invested in 5G-based infrastructure, and they don't have, their operators in those part of the world don't have an awful lot of legacy-based infrastructure to be able to have to replace. They can get there a lot faster. The other thing is with 5G, for them, the applications and services in the way that people experience network-based access or Internet if for want of another word is very different than way that maybe we experience it here in the US or in Europe. So I think you're going to see different applications and different business models evolve in different markets in Asia than you would say here in North America. In North America, I think that it's going to take a lot of the operators different business models to look at maybe some of the higher order of applications and services that drive stickiness for their own infrastructure and network services but also some of the more advanced applications like I mentioned smart cars or smart homes, or smart cities or energy or better ways of delivering products in terms of distribution to your home, those those types of applications and services we won't necessarily in some of those other markets be there and similarly for Europe. >> All right Darrell Jordan-Smith, really appreciate you joining us, giving us all the updates on telco, how it fits with OpenStack. Jon Troyer and I will be back with lots more coverage here from the OpenStack summit 2017 in Boston. You're watching The CUBE (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: Live from Boston, Massachusettts, it's the Cube covering the Red Hat summit 2017. Brought to you by Red Hat. >> Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of the Red Hat Summit here in Boston, Massachusetts. I'm your host Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Stu Miniman. We are joined by Radesh Balakrishnan. He is the general manager at openstack.com. Thank you so much for joining us, Radesh. >> My pleasure. >> I want to hear a status report. Where are we with openstack? What does it look like? Before the cameras were rolling you were saying we're alive and well, we're better than that, we're thriving. Lay it out for us. >> Yeah you could look at it from three perspectives. First is, how are we doing on number of production deployments. So just from the red hat lens itself, we have over 500 customers across the globe, spanning across multiple verticals, be it financial, telco, education, research and development, academia, etc. >> Stu: Put a point on that, production you said. >> Production customers. >> That doesn't include all the tests, you know that kind of stuff. >> That's right. >> Please. >> So that's a healthy spot to be in. The second lens to bring in from an openstack health perspective is how is the partner ecosystem shaping up? This is a space where there have been probably misreading of some of the moves that have been happening here. From our perspective, what has happened is a very healthy consolidation and standardization of the different place that needs to happen in the space. If you look at the openstack ecosystem that red hat has been able to pull through, we have certified solutions across compute, storage, networking, as well as ISP solutions that today customers can deploy with peace of mind. That's another indication of the fact that the ecosystem is maturing as well. A dimension along which that I'm personally excited about the ecosystem maturing is the fact that managed service providers are also taking on openstack and delivering solutions on top of it. For example, rackspace, IBM, Cisco metacloud, etc. All of them have built their manage service offering based on their openstack platform. >> So let's stay big picture here and look at the industry five years down the road, you're talking about it maturing, consolidation a natural part of that. What do you see, as I said again, big picture? >> I think the largest picture here is that hybrid cloud has become the norm. Five years ago, is cloud going to be there, real, is it secure, all of those questions have been answered. Multi cloud has become a real possibility. Hybrid cloud is going to be the normed implementation. The role openstack has is two fold in that context. One is, clearly as a private cloud implementation for enterprises wanting lack of vendor locking when it comes to implementing a cloud infrastructure. The second perspective is how can you stitch together multiple clouds using an API at the infrastructure layer that openstack can provide. That's the value that openstack is providing. >> Radesh, I want to dig into that a little bit because there was a vision of openstack, we're going to have, it will be the open cloud, we can build lots of clouds on that. You mentioned a few service providers. Of course rackspace was there since the early days. Great to see IBM, Cisco still doing some even though Cisco kind of killed the intercloud piece. But when I heard multi cloud talked about this week it is AWS, big partnership announcement with open shift. Google, Microsoft Azure, hybrid pieces of that and stitches those together, so I wonder, how does openstack in general and specifically the red hat solution stitch together openstack components with some of those other public cloud components? Because that seemed to be a gap in what openstack did itself. >> Yeah, so from our perspective, if you think it as a ratage, 80% of the focus is on private cloud. The remaining 20% is on think about security, privacy, compliance requirements dictating country specific public cloud requirements. Say Servpro in Brazil, or UK Cloud which provides services for Garmin Cloud, or Swisscom, a standing up Swiss cloud. That's kind of the mix and match of it. The context that I was worrying about was even when you have a private cloud, you can use the API that openstack provides to manipulate the resources that are on AWS, Google, Azure, etc. That's where I see the future shaping up. >> Radesh, we're going to be covering openstack next week, we'll see lots of red hatters there, I know. My take is that we need to reset expectations a little bit. I think red hat's been pretty consistent with what they're doing, but many people are unclear. We talked about certain players pulling back or partially or shifting what they're working on. Maybe I'd like to see your viewpoint on that as to a little bit of overblown expectations, certain players that might've been trying to push certain agendas vs. where red hat has seen things go and you want to see the community go forward. >> I think the first perspective to take here is that openstack is not the destination in itself. Openstack is an ingredient in the destination that customers want to get to. I talked a little bit about the open hybrid cloud being the end destination that customers want to get to. The usual layer cake of, there's the infrastructure layer, there's the application layer and there's the management layer. You want to get to an infrastructure layer that's open and openstack provides that one. Now, what has happened in the last two years is the focus around digital transformation has brought the shining light on the application layer square and center. In other words, developers are the kingmakers. In other words, the speed from thought to executing code is what is going to make or break a business. Which is why containers and derops, etc. is where the action is. But that doesn't preclude the need to have an adjoined infrastructure at the bottom layer. Rather than reinvent the need to do plumbing and compute and storage and networking level, you build on top of openstack so that you have open shift on top of openstack, like a Waru or a FICO doing it so that you get the fungible infrastructure at the bottom and then you get the derops implementation running on top of that. That's what we are seeing as the path to future. >> Yeah, I think that's a great point because it felt like that was a big piece missing at openstack is yeah, we've talked about containers there for a couple years but it's not about the application. I've heard lots of discussion about applications, application modernization, all the middle ware pieces. The core to many of the things that you guys are doing at red hat here and do you see, expect us to talk a lot about that at openstack summit next week? As things like Kubernetes and the container ecosystem matures, will that pull people away from some of the core activities? Because the base pieces of openstack are set in a lot of ways and sure, there's development work that needs to continue, but we've gotten some of the base pieces working well. People have been worried about some of the scope creep and the big tent and everything that falls out. How do you reconcile some of those pieces? >> Right, so I think it's a given that the world of containers and the world of openstack are coming together. Now, the confusion stems from the fact that some people are taking the view that containers are going to eliminate the need for openstack itself. The lens to bring to the picture is, how can the customer graduate from what they have to what they want to get to? If you come from that perspective, then first is to bring rationalization of existing resources by bringing in openstack and infrastructure layer. Bring in culture change through derops, through open shift, and then when it comes to implementing the full solution, you run open shift on top of openstack. That's the ideal that we get to see. Now, is every customer going to go through these steps? Maybe not, but the majority of the customer if you look at the customers who are embarking on transmuneration over the next three to five years, they're going to be in that bucket is my view. >> Can we go back to what you were saying about the beginning, it begins with the infrastructure, then the culture shift. Unpack that a little bit for us. What do you mean by that and what are you saying in terms of how that will lead to the transformation that companies want to get to? >> Right, so all I'm saying is technology is the easy part. It's down to are we fundamentally rewiring the way in which we are thinking about applications? The way in which we are writing the applications, the way in which we are delivering the applications to an entirely potentially new set of customers and partners? >> Last piece I want to ask you about is the openstack community. Some shifts as to who's contributing, talk to us a little bit about red hat's contribution, the really health of the various projects. Where you see good stuff coming out and anything as you look forward to next week without giving away what announcements you have. What should the community be excited about going into the summit? >> The openstack summits are always exciting because it's twice a year, family reunion for the whole community to come together. As a community, we made tremendous journey in identifying new use cases, such as NFE, delivering against that, etc. The other dimension is that, back to the point about rationalization etc., now there is clarity around the role of openstack itself in an infrastructure. The journey ahead is to make sure that containers and openstack can come together in a seamless manner. Secondly, in the hybrid cloud adoption model, openstack engineering will provide the API stability across the multi cloud infrastructure. Those are the areas I think all the discussions are going to be centered around next week. >> Great, Radesh thank you so much for your time. It's always a pleasure to sit down with you. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight for Stu Miniman, we'll back with one last session from the Red Hat Summit 2017. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Covering mobile world congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we're here live in Palo Alto for day two of two days of Mobile World Congress special coverage here in Palo Alto, where we're bringing all the folks in Silicon Valley here in the studio to analyze all the news and commentary of which we've been watching heavily on the ground in Barcelona. We have reporters, we have analysts, and we have friends there, of course, Intel is there as well as SAP, and a variety of other companies we've been talking to on the phone and all those interviews are on YouTube.com/siliconANGLE. And we're here with Chuck Tato, who's the marketing director of the data center of communications with Intel around the FPGA, which is the programmable chips, formerly with the Alterra Group, now a part of Intel, welcome to theCUBE, and thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for having me. So, actually all the rage Mobile World Congress Intel, big splash, and you guys have been, I mean, Intel has always bene the bellweather. I was saying this earlier, Intel plays the long game. You have to in the chips games. You got to build the factories, build fabs. Most of all, have been the heartbeat of the industry, but now doing more of less chips, Most of all, making them smaller, faster, cheaper, or less expensive and just more power. The cloud does that. So you're in the cloud data center group. Take a second to talk about what you guys do within Intel, and why that's important for folks to understand. >> Sure. I'm part of the programmable solutions group. So the programmable solutions group primarily focuses on field programmable gate array technology that was acquired through the Alterra acquisition at Intel. So our focus in my particular group is around data center and Coms infrastructure. So there, what we're doing is we're taking the FPGAs and we're applying them to the data center as well as carrier infrastructure to accelerate things, make them faster, make them more repeatable, or more terministic in nature. >> And so, that how it works, as you were explaining beforehand, kind of, you can set stream of bits at it and it changes the functionality of the chip. >> Yes. So essentially, an FPGA, think of it as a malleable set of resources. When I say that, you know, you can create, it's basically a fabric with many resources in an array. So through the use of a bit stream, you can actually program that fabric to interconnect the different elements of the chip to create any function that you would like, for the most part. So think of it as you can create a switch, you can create a classification engine, and things like that. >> Any why would someone want that functionality versus just a purpose-built chip. >> Perfect question. So if you look at, there's two areas. So in the data center, as well as in carrier infrastructure, the workloads are changing constantly. And there's two problems. Number one you could create infrastructure that becomes stranded. You know, you think you're going to have so much traffic of a certain type and you don't. So you end up buying a lot of purpose-built equipment that's just wrong for what you need going forward. So by building infrastructure that is common, so it kind of COTS, you know, on servers, but adding FPGAs to the mix allows you to reconfigure the networking within the cloud, to allow you to address workloads that you care about at any given time. >> Adaptability seems to be the key thing. You know kind of trends based upon certain things, and certainly the first time you see things, you've got to figure it out. But this gives a lot of flexibility, it sounds like. >> Exactly. Adaptability is the key, as well as bandwidth, and determinism, right? So when you get a high bandwidth coming into the network, and you want to something very rapidly and consistently to provide a certain service level agreement you need to have circuits that are actually very, very deterministic in nature. >> Chuck, I want to get your thoughts on one of the key things. I talked with Sandra Reddy, Sandra Rivera, sorry, she was, I interviewed her this morning, as well as Dan Rodriguez, and Caroline Chan, Lyn Comp as well. Lot of different perspectives. I see 5G as big on one hand, have the devices out there announcing on Sunday. But what was missing, and I think Fortune was the really, the only one I saw pick up on this besides SiliconANGLE, on terms of the coverage was, there's a real end-to-end discussion here around not just the 5G as the connectivity piece that the carriers care about, but there's the under-the-hood work that's changing in the Data Center. And the car's a data center now, right? >> Yeah. >> So you have all these new things happening, IOT, people with sensors on them, and devices, and then you've got the cloud-ready compute available, right? And we love what's happening with cloud. Infinite compute is there and makes data work much better. How does the end-to-end story with Intel, and the group that you're in, impact that and what are some of the use cases that seem to be popping up in that area. >> Okay, so that's a great question, and I guess some of the examples that I could give of where we're creating end-to-end solutions would be in wireless infrastructure, as you just mentioned. As you move on to 5G infrastructure, the goal is to increase the bandwidth by 100X and reduce the latency by orders of magnitude. It's a very, very significant challenge. To do that is quite difficult, to do it just in software. FPGA is a perfect complement to a software-based solution to achieve these goals. For example, virtual switching. It's a significant load on the processors. By offloading virtual switching in an FPGA, you an create the virtual switch that you need for the particular workload that you need. Workloads change, depending on what type of services you're offering in a given area. So you can tailor it to exactly what you need. You may or may not need6 high levels of security, so things like IPsec, yo6u know, at full line rate, are the kind of things that FPGAs allow you to add ad hoc. You can add them where you need them, when you need them, and change them as the services change. >> It sounds like, I'd never thought about that, but it sounds like this is a real architectural advantage, because I'd never thought about offloading the processor, and we all know we all open up or build our PCs know that the heat syncs only get bigger and bigger, so that people want that horsepower for very processor-intensive things. >> Absolutely. So we do two things. One is we do create this flexible infrastructure, the second thing is we offload the processor for things that you know, free up cores to do more value-added things. >> Like gaming for, my kids love to see that gaming. >> Yes. There's gaming, virtual reality, augmented virtual reality, all of those things are very CPU intensive, but there's also a compute-intensive aspect. >> Okay, so I've got to get your take on this. This is kind of a cool conversation because that's, the virtual reality and augmented reality really are relevant. That is a key part of Mobile World Congress, beside the IOT, which I think is the biggest story this year, is IOT, and all the security aspects of it around, and all that good stuff. And that's really where the meat is, but the real sex appeal is the virtual reality and augmented reality. That's an example of the new things that have popped out of the woodwork, so the question for you is for all these new-use cases that I have found that emerge, there will be new things that pop out of the woodwork. "Oh, my God, I don't have to write software for that, There's an app for that now." So the new apps are going to start coming in, whether it's something new and cool on a car, Something new and cool on a sensor, something new and cool in the data center. How adaptive are you guys and how do you guys kind of fit into that kind of preparing for this unknown future. >> Well, that's a great question, too. I like to think about new services coming forward as being a unique blend of storage, compute, and networking, and depending on the application and the moment in that application, you may have to change that mix in a very flexible way. So again, the FPGA provides you the ability to change all of those to match the application needs. I'm surprised as we dig into applications, you know, how many different sets of needs there are. So each time you do that, you can envision, reprogramming your FPGA. So just like a processor, it's completely reprogrammable. You're not going to reprogram it in the same instantaneous way that you do in software, but you can reprogram it on the fly, whatever you would like. >> So, I'm kind of a neophyte here, so I want to ask some dumb questions, probably be dumb to you, but common to me, but would be like, okay, who writes bits? Is it the coders or is it someone on the firmware side, I'm trying to understand where the line is between that hardened top of kind of Intel goodness that goes on algorithmically or automatically, or what programmers do. So think full-stack developer, or a composer, a more artisan type who's maybe writing an app. Are there both access points to the coding, or is it, where's the coding come from? >> So there's multiple ways that this is happening. The traditional way of programming FPGA is the same way that you would design any ASIC in the industry, right? Somebody sits down and they write RTL, they're very specialized programmers However, going forward, there's multiple ways you an access it. For one, we're creating libraries of solutions that you can access through APIs that are built into DPDK, for example on Xeon. So you can very easily access accelerated applications and inline applications that are being developed by ourselves as well as third parties. So there's a rich eco system. >> So you guys are writing hooks that go beyond being the ASIC special type, specialist programming. >> Absolutely. So this makes it very accessible to programmers. The acceleration that's there from a library and purpose-built. >> Give me an example, if you can. >> Sure, virtual switch. So in our platform for NFE, we're building in a virtual switch solution, and you can program that just like you know, totally in software through DPDK. >> One of the things that coming up with NFE that's interesting, I don't know if this y6our wheelhouse or not, but I want to throw it out there because it's come up in multiple interviews and in the industry. You're seeing very cool ideas and solutions roll out, and I'll give, you know, I'll make one up off the top of my head, Openstack. Openstack is a great, great vision, but it's a lot of fumbling in the execution of it and the cost of ownership goes through the roof because there's a lot of operation, I'm overgeneralizing certain use-case, not all Openstack, but in generally speaking, I do have the same problem with big data where, great solution-- >> Uh-huh. >> But when you lay out the architect and then deploy it there's a lot of cost of ownership overhead in terms of resources. So is this kind of an area that you guys can help simplify, 'cause that seems to be a sticking point for people who want to stand up some infrastructure and do dev ops and then get into this API-like framework. >> Yes, from a hardware perspective, we're actually creating a platform, which includes a lot of software to tie into Openstack. So that's all preintegrated for you, if you will. So at least from a hardware interface perspective, I can say that that part of the equation gets neutralized. In terms of the rest of the ownership part, I'm not really qualified to answer that question. >> That's good media training, right there. Chuck just came back from Intel media training, which is good. We got you fresh. Network transformation, and at the, also points to some really cool exciting areas that are going on that are really important. The network layer you see, EDFE, and SDN, for instance, that's really important areas that people are innovating on, and they're super important because, again, this is where the action is. You have virtualization, you have new capabilities, you've got some security things going down lower in the stack. What's the impact there from an Intel perspective, helping this end-to-end architecture be seamless? >> Sure. So what we are doing right now is creating a layer on top of our FPGA-based SmartNIC solutions, which ties together all of that into a single platform, and it cuts across multiple Intel products. We have, you know, Xeon processors integrated with FPGAs, we have discreet FPGAs built onto cards that we are in the process of developing. So from a SmartNIC through to a fully-integrated FPGA plus Xeon processor is one common framework. One common way of programming the FPGA, so IP can move from one to the other. So there's a lot of very neat end-to-end and seamless capabilities. >> So the final question is the customer environment. I would say you guys have a lot of customers out there. The edge computing is a huge thing right now. We're seeing that as a big part of this, kind of, the clarity coming out of Mobile World Congress, at least from the telco standpoints, it's kind of not new in the data center area. The edge now is redefined. Certainly with IOT-- >> Yes. >> And IOTP, which we're calling IOTP app for people having devices. What are the customer challenges right now, that you are addressing. Specifically, what's the pain points and what's the current state-of-the-art relative to the customer's expectations now, that they're focused on that you guys are solving. >> Yeah, that's a great question, too. We have a lot of customers now that are taking transmission equipment, for example, mobile backhaul types of equipment, and they want to add mobile edge computing and NFE-type capabilities to that equipment. The beauty of what we're doing is that the same solution that we have for the cloud works just as well in that same piece of equipment. FPGAs come in all different sizes, so you can fit within your power envelope or processors come in all different sizes. So you can tailor your solution-- >> That's super important on the telco side. I mean, power is huge. >> Yes, yes, and FPGAs allow you to tailor the power equation as much as possible. >> So the question, I think is the next question is, does this make it cloud-ready, because that's term that we've been hearing a lot of. Cloud-ready. Cause that sounds like what you're offering is the ability to kind of tie into the same stuff that the cloud has, or the data center. >> Yes, exactly. In fact, you know, there's been very high profile press around the use of FPGAs in cloud infrastructure. So we're seeing a huge uptick there. So it is getting cloud-ready. I wouldn't say it's perfectly there, but we're getting very close. >> Well the thing that's exciting to me, I think, is the cloud native movement really talks about again, you know, these abstractions with micro services, and you mentioned the APIs, really fits well into some of the agilenesss that needs to happen at the network layer, to be more dynamic. I mean, just think about the provisioning of IOT. >> Chuck: Yeah. >> I mean, I'm a telco, I got to provision a phone, that's get a phone number, connect on the network, and then have sessions go to the base station, and then back to the cloud. Imagine having to provision up and down zillions of times those devices that may get provision once and go away in an hour. >> Right. >> That's still challenging, give you the network fabric. >> Yes. It is going to be a challenge, but I think as common as we can make the physical infrastructure, the better and the easier that's going to be, and as we create more common-- >> Chuck, final question, what's your take from Mobile World Congress? What are you hearing, what's your analysis, commentary, any kind of input you've heard? Obviously, Intel's got a big presence there, your thoughts on what's happening at Mobile World Congress. >> Well, see I'm not at Mobile World Congress, I'm here in Silicon Valley right now, but-- >> John: What have you heard? >> Things are very exciting. I'm mostly focused on the NFE world myself, and there's been just lots and lots of-- >> It's been high profile. >> Yes, and there's been lots of activity, and you know, we've been doing demos and really cool stuff in that area. We haven't announced much of that on the FPGA side, but I think you'll be seeing more-- >> But you're involved, so what's the coolest thing in NFE that you're seeing, because it seems to be crunch time for NFE right now. This is a catalyst point where at least, from my covering NFE, and looking at it, the iterations of it, it's primetime right now for NFE, true? >> Yeah, it's perfect timing, and it's actually perfect timing for FPGA. I'm not trying to just give it a plug. When you look at it, trials have gone on, very significant, lots of learnings from those trials. What we've done is we've identified the bottlenecks, and my group has been working very hard to resolve those bottlenecks, so we can scale and roll out in the next couple of years, and be ready for 5G when it comes. >> Software definer, Chuck Tato, here from Intel, inside theCUBE, breaking down the coverage from Mobile World Congress, as we wind down our day in California, the folks in Spain are just going out. It should be like at 12:00 o'clock at night there, and are going to bed, depending on how beat they are. Again, it's in Barcelona, Spain, it's where it's at. We're covering from here and also talking to folks in Barcelona. We'll have more commentary here in Silicon Valley on the Mobile World Congress after this short break. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Silicon Valley. It's The Cube. Covering Mobile World Congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> Okay welcome back everyone. We're here live in Palo Alto for The Cube's special broadcast presentation and coverage of Mobile World Congress. Which is happening in Barcelona, Spain. I'm John Furrier here with The Cube. And of course we're covering it here in Palo Alto. Bringing in experts and friends who have been following all the action. As well as have commentary and opinion on what's happening. We're going to roll up the news. It's the end of the day in Barcelona. We're just getting our sea legs here for day two of 8AM to 6PM coverage inside The Cube. And of course we want to break down the content. Our next guest is Val Bercovici who is the CTO at Solify also a governing board member of the CNCA the Cloud Native Compute Foundation, CNCF. Which was CubeCom which is now part of the Linux Foundation. Which if you know The Cube you know we've been covering that like a blanket. All these shows, The Cube has been there. This is in the world of Dockercon et cetera et cetera. Val, a CTO, 19-year veteran at NetApp of course knows the stories business, knows the converge infrastructure, know the Cloud. Val great to see you thanks for coming in. >> Thanks for having me back on after all these years. >> Yeah I mean it's great to have you on. We see each other at some of the parties, at Georgianna's place in particular. Georgianna brings all the storage and Cloud together but you and I had conversations a few years ago about where Cloud was going. And you can almost kind of connect the dots. Not to pat ourselves on the back, but I think we were right that the cloud was what we thought it would be. And probably more. For me I think I underestimated certainly the Amazon impact. >> Me too. >> But you look at what's happening in Mobile World Congress. You have a bi-polar show. You have a device show. Rah-rah look at the fancy devices. And the other show you have a Telco show that's trying to figure out their future. And that's interesting because the Telco's power the big networks that everyone's using the devices for. So you have a consumer market. But the real conversation is 5G IoT. You have a collision course of enterprise issues, enterprise data center, enterprise technology, colliding with a Telco infrastructure, AKA mobile. Head on. So it's not just more wireless. 5G's certainly the story we talked to folks like Intel and others around that but you have essentially all these core problems that are going to scale up this next generation use cases, are enterprise-like. This is your wheelhouse. So are you looking at this saying hm I've seen this movie before. What's your thoughts? >> I actually haven't. And that's what's so exciting right. As you said, there's so much innovation happening. For me probably the big story is what's not in the headlines at Mobile World Congress. Which is the back office work to support a 5G rollout. And I've had a lot of experience particularly on the side most recently. Speaking with all the big Telecos globally, and the implementations. Now what's interesting is they're all going through a gen two, or a re-architecture right now. A lot of first-generation MFE was done based on tradition or legacy now clad architecture which very VM based. And all of them are now architecting and implementing microservices based implementations. And a driver for that is just the explosion that 5G will enable in terms of connectivity between devices. So the least interesting stat to me is how fast I can download a movie off of 5G. The most interesting is how many hundreds of thousands or millions of devices within my domain are going to be communicating with each other on 5G. >> We had Saar Gillai who's going to come back today. He's also a guest, former HPer. He built their communications group while at NFE. I'd like it if he was commenting on the same thing, he made a point I want to bring up which is I don't really need more gigabit data, I want more battery life. So he's kind of being a pedestrian but that really is kind of the consumer issue. You're pointing about things that are going to be harder to do. In NFE you mention one of them. Can you explain the NFE's current situation? Also we've been doing a lot of the open stag all the open shows since it started. That has become kind of a Telco, NFE storage show as well. >> Val: Absolutely. >> So what is the real issue with NFE and why is it important and relevant to the service providers right now? >> So if you take a look at all the services we depend on on our phones nowadays. There's obviously the basic connectivity. There's additional services around location mapping for GPS, related services on top of that in terms of the collaborative apps that we use and depend on every day. Sometimes on S3 which is not always available as we're reporting right now. There's a lot of layers there. And from an NFV perspective from a back end data center perspective. Everything amounts to a session. So even though it's packet switch it's still a logical session you have to set up. So for every session, and imagine this happening millions of times at every tower, and more than millions of times at every regional or central data center. You got to have a session set up where you got to authenticate actually Who the user or the device is, make sure they have permission to be on the network and accessing certain things. You've got to authorize them to do certain things. You've got to log what's happening. Then you've got to slap some firewall or security around them. Then you've got to layer in access to all the other resources you're trying to combine into a service back to the end user. There's a lot of things going on. And we have to set up these sessions for every connection. And if you try to set up a VM, for every connection, you would have to fund a multi-billion dollar data center Google can't even afford. So this is where microservices are becoming essential right now. And a 5G hyper-connected world is where you have to have much more efficiency, in the speed with which you set up these sessions, the efficiency of number of sessions per server. And the cost, the processing of these transactions. >> This is interesting. I want to just kind of translate a little bit for the folks that aren't CTO's out there. Essentially when you think about mobile we've all been, you know, since the iPhone in 2007, we've seen this just accelerate. You know with data and whatnot. You've been at a concert, you've been in a stadium, you've got signal but you can't connect. >> Right. >> That is essentially the base station saying I can't get a session. Now as a user you have a phone, so you've been provisioned by the Telco, so they know who you are. So you have a phone, you have a device, you just can't connect a session to the radio connector and then get to the internet. That's a known problem. Now when you think about IoT, internet of things and now people, your watches, your wearables, sensors on the airplanes, industrial equipment to traffic lights. Those are devices that are going to be provisioned and turned off and on. So it's like a new phone every time. So you've got the complication of not knowing the devices that are coming on, and then trying to establish the connections. And figuring all this out. This is kind of a really hard problem. >> It is. >> This is a really really hard problem of scale at many levels. So to me what we're hearing at Mobile World Congress is you need a dynamic network. >> Val: Absolutely. >> What are some of the tech involved? What's the real enabler. You mentioned microservices, we know about containers. Linux Foundation's opening up their kernel for a lot of variety of new configurations. You got solid state memory and you got new memory architectures. What are some of the key things from a technical perspective that are going to change that complexity to be seamless for users? >> Probably the most fascinating trend to me and we're just beginning to see some stories emerge around this is the rise of edge computing. I kind of hark back to when I started my career, I'm dating myself now but the client server era that succeeded from mainframes, we've seen a huge pendulum shift towards Cloud computing. And centralizing a lot of processing. Well back to 5G, back to millions if not billions of connected devices right now. There is no way Einstein introduced his problem for the speed of light. There is no way to process the exponential amount of data we're dealing with right now at the core. And still provide useful feedback at the edge. So the rise of edge computing has a bit of a counterbalance to Cloud computing. And having more powerful, more intelligent processing at the edge, filtering a lot of data 'cause we can't possibly store the exit bytes and yadabytes of data. >> This is a paradigm shift. What you're talking about is a new paradigm shift. Because it used to be a centralized computer, and then a master slave or connected device terminal then you had smart terminals, business clients, and then PCs and then smart phones, so what you're bringing up is an interesting architecture that is an enterprise data center thing. And we were talking yesterday, and then I was telling the Intel folks, I pressed them on this 'cause they're obviously in the data center business, that a car that's fully instrumented like a Tesla or a future autonomous car is essentially a moving data center. So it changes the notion of data. >> Yes. >> This is a paradigm shift. You agree with that. >> Moreover. IoT is maybe the first technology buzzword that takes a lot of this digital world that we've been talking about. It's really been largely abstract and virtual for the common person. And it makes it physical and real. So the impact of IoT is an actuator changing your traffic light. You know, it's whether you're getting water, you're getting electricity at your house. Whether you're finding your way to your location via GPS. That's especially impacting your physical world it's no longer just a virtual thing. So that's where IoT's going to become really really significant in our lives. >> And the software program that needs to be created. This is an opportunity for entrepreneurs certainly. Peter Burris and I were talking yesterday morning about the edge computing. He's got a slew of research on this. He goes by IoT and p, IoT, things and people. And we were also talking yesterday about the relationship of the people to technology. So for instance in Telco's they view the phone as the relationship that's coupled to the carrier. And the premise we put out yesterday was that that's going to be an uncoupling. It's going to be a person's relationship to multiple carriers if you will. So the question is how does business extract value out of this? And this is something again that Peter Burris was digging into. Which is the business value of technology. In the paradigm we just talked about which seems pretty obvious, how we get there not so obvious, but people are working on that. How should companies think about getting value out of this massive shift? A lot of moving parts. >> The examples are already there. Let's talk about one of the most talked-about companies around here. Uber. And not because of the reasons they're attracting right now, but some of the classical disruption they enabled. Take a look at the fundamentals of what they do technically. It's interesting. It's somewhat impressive, but it's not revolutionary. What made them revolutionary is digitizing the transportation relationship you and I have with our transportation providers. And when they tapped into that they realized the potential for that is limitless right now. 'Cause we're all physical beings, we still have to move ourselves and our food, our packages around. But digitizing transportation is really you know a great example of any industry. Whether it's a 100-year-old industry or a brand new industry when you digitize the distribution, and when you actually add digital efficiencies in the back end, you end up with that 100 x effect, more than a 10 x effect. And truly earned the term disruptor. >> Give us more examples that you've seen. I know you talk a lot of Telco's but what other use cases. Because the whole notion of 5G and this new architecture is really coming down to use cases. And certainly the sexy ones. The car, the smart cities, I mean there's a lot of policy, societal impact issues that need to be thought through. But just generally, what's the low-hanging fruit right now? >> You know instead of low-hanging fruit let me give you the most pedestrian example I can think of. Which is when I meet with some of the waste management companies years ago I took them for granted. There was no innovation here. It's going to be an old enterprise discussion with some conservative tech leaders. I'm not even going to, I'm not trying to phone this is. I show up to meet with them, and they were truly innovating because they realized the whole customer experience of putting out your trash bin, your recycle bin, your organics bin, and so forth, your compost bin, can actually be improved. And the efficiencies added when you put GPS trackers on all the trucks. When you figure out when they have to go to the dump because there's an inordinately high amount of garbage put out early in the route one morning. And the ability for you to know when your bins are picked up. So you can actually go and pick up those bins. Put them out minutes before instead of the night before. Bring them back minutes after. Just reinventing that very pedestrian mundane experience tells me that there are opportunities for innovation everywhere in our lives. >> So really pick a spot to make efficient. Is probably easiest. Great, great feedback. Thoughts on developers. 'Cause it's something that we didn't, and we'd love to bring you back for more time on this but the CNC the Cloud Native Compute Foundation which is now part of the Linux Foundation, you mentioned microservices, orchestrations, there's a lot of software around composability, whether that's an artisan light developer, or the hardcore developers down lower on the stack. How does autonomous vehicles and this new future use case whether it's programming drones or writing cool software, to what's going on in the developer community? Can you share any color on trends around what's being done in traditional classic developing? >> Autonomous vehicles is already a perfect example because CNCF fundamentally is about what we call Cloud native technologies and applications. In a typical Cloud native architecture is container packaged not VM packaged. And it's dynamically orchestrated. So we say it's basically declarative as opposed to opinionated to use back end speak technical developer speak. But what does that mean? Autonomous cars are not interesting if one car is autonomous. Autonomous cars are interesting when dozens, hundreds, perhaps thousands of cars along your route those are autonomous. The interaction between them, and making sure they don't all try to occupy the same space at the same time. That's pretty essential. But also keeping traffic flowing smoothly and preventing unnecessary traffic jams. So it's the coordination of multiple processes, multiple things. That's what really make Cloud native computing happen at scale. So CNCF actually is five projects right now. Most people know it as the Kubernetes project and it is very much that. I think a year ago no one knew how hot Kubernetes would be but certainly it's taken off right now. Thanks a lot in part to Google. We've got new technologies around monitoring. So you've got a monitor your app obviously in the Cloud world to see what are the efficiencies performances for the end user. Around logging, distributed logging and monitoring. We've got new projects around actually debugging at scale. So debugging one process is simple as any developer knows. Debugging multiple concurrent threads or processes, that's still a black art. And so we've got open tracing technologies around that, and there's a new style of project, something known as link or d. But it's around now and the IoT context the most important thing to me discovery of context. What other devices, what other sensors are out there. >> It sounds like an operating system to me. You got linkers, you got loaders, you got all this orchestration. This is a global operating environment. >> It's a great insight. It's not an operating system. >> Not in like a classic sense. But there's some systems... >> It is a new operating environment. In the Cloud native world, operating system still connotates one PC, one device or one host on a data center. It really is a coordination of services. New modern high-end services. >> And declarative thing with containers is essentially assembly based, you can manage things component-wise, those kinds of concepts. And you see that as a key part of enabling these new use cases. >> There's actually no economies of scale if you don't go Cloud native nowadays. As 5G networks become more prevalent, as IoT becomes more mainstream, it doesn't play without microservice. >> And the trade-offs for not being Cloud native is what? >> Being disrupted. It's literally you know there's some great recent blogs. You've heard this title before, the coming SaaSpocalypse. So the disruption of the legacy SaaS vendors. The economics of them force you to basically have fixed subscription models with your customers. And whether you're using you know your CRM map once a day or 100 times a day. It costs you the same. These new Cloud native architectures are going to enable disruption in an industry because they only consume resources as a sessions for an app and the licensing and business model can now be that much more efficient. People are actually willing to be charged per use as opposed to per subscription. >> Now you know, I've gotten to know you over the years, and a great guest to have on The Cube. Thanks for sharing that insight. But it is an exciting time. You had a great run at NetApp. I mean you look at what NetApp's been doing, I mean they were the darling of Silicon Valley. Classic success story. Multiple reinventions, great founding team, great investors, just a classic run that they've had. As you look back now going forward, looking back and now looking forward, what are some of the things that get you jazzed up right now in terms of things that are that next wave that's coming. What do you see that's exciting and what would you share for folks for insight? >> I'd say the most exciting thing to me at a high level is the opportunity that 5G IoT enables. I think there's a whole new market segment. Some people might call it the real evolution of HCI. Which is edge computing, and all these really fast workloads. That are not going to be necessarily virtual desktops in terms of running or operating your business. But entirely new revenue streams, entirely new services, and all sorts of companies, digital or analog can offer. That excites me. And of course we've talked about the back end of the shift towards away from fast storage. Fast storage toward persistent memory. That in itself is going to open up a whole new category of apps that we've yet to see. >> Yeah we got to get that Linux rewritten and opened up. All kinds of new stuff. Great great commentary Val. Thanks for coming on The Cube to share. We certainly want to have you back. And really unpack and drill down and double down on what Cloud native impact means, and certainly edge and IoT computing. Really is going to be a fascinating run I think. I think that's going to open up a huge can of worms and an opportunity for really changing the game and creating great value and risk too. I mean Amazon S3's down as we speak. We're joking but you know we see insecurity problems out there and we'll stay on top of it. Of course The Cube has got you covered. And that's the hot themes really that's not being reported about Mobile World Congress that we're reporting. Which is the surge in IoT relevance. But that gives a mental model. This is the story of Mobile World Congress. 5G as a fabric connecting in with hard enterprise data center-like technologies. End to end for dynamic experiences. This is the challenge for Telcos. And someone will get it done. Let's see who it will be. Of course we'll be watching it. This is The Cube with more coverage of Mobile World Congress after this short break.

>> Announcer: Live from Silicon Valley it's theCUBE! Covering Mobile World Congress 2017. Brought to you by Intel. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Palo Alto for special Mobile World Congress 2017 coverage. Mobile World Congress is happening in Barcelona, Spain and we are covering it here in Palo Alto and covering all the action as day two of Mobile World Congress winds down. We have reporters, analysts in the field in Barcelona calling in, we have Peter Jarich coming up soon, a call in. We've had Scott Raynovich, analyst, called in earlier. We have reports: go to SiliconANGLE.com for all the action. Go to Cube365.net/MWC17, that is our new Cube365 software, a digital hub to aggregate all the top stories, all the signal from the noise at Mobile World Congress and that site is sponsored by Intel. I want to thank Intel for allowing us to do 30 great interviews here in studio as well as a variety of great content that we're getting in from phone-ins and friends on the ground in Barcelona to get you all the top stories, and of course we'll bring you commentary and analysis here inside theCUBE. I had a chance to talk to Intel at 1:30 this morning, in California time, early morning Tuesday time here, Tuesday time in Barcelona. Had a chance to talk with Sandra Rivera, who's the Corporate Vice President/General Manager of Intel's Network Platforms Group. She is in charge of the Intel Technology Group that brings the end-to-end transformation. Really getting 5G ready, part of the Intel brain trust and the leader and really taking the world by storm. 5G obviously the top story and underneath the hood of 5G is the network transformation. I had a chance to ask some very pointed questions, like, "Is 5G ready for prime time?" and, "What's it going to take to change the game "to bring a new business model to power "all the new use cases like autonomous vehicles, "smart cities, a new kind of media and entertainment "landscape as well as smart homes "and smart businesses?" So, let's hear what Sandra had to say, and here's my interview from this morning in Barcelona." >> Sandra: Well, I would certainly say it's revolution not evolution. If you look at all the previous generations of radio technology, 2G, 3G, 4G, it was largely driven by connecting people to other people, and of course the voice era with the 2G and 3G, came the app revolution, and us connecting with our loved ones over social media and all of the new capabilities that we found on the Internet. 4G then became about more capacity and coverage and faster upload and download speeds. With all of the, again, social media and video and media processing. But 5G is fundamentally different because it really brings together the computing and communications paradigm. It is truly that convergence of both computing and communication, and so, in addition to the billions of people that we've been connecting and all the other generations of radio technology, we are now connecting tens of billions of things in that era of 5G. And a lot of what we're seeing here on the ground is just some of those use cases are starting to merge in terms of once you really converge computing and communications, what is possible? What is possible to do? >> John: The big conversation that we've been having yesterday on theCUBE was the confluence between consumer technology and enterprise technology from a business model standpoint. We hear the word "digital transformation," that's the business model for pretty much the global business landscape, but really there's a lot of stuff going on under the hood around, you guys are calling, network transformation. Your CEO was talking on Fortune before the show started about this end-to-end architecture. >> Sandra: Yes, so when we talk about end-to-end, we do talk about every every point of either accessing or delivering information at the end either between people or between things. So it's from the jump-on point, if you will, on the network and the access layer and so of course it's all the new radio technologies up to the edge of a network where a lot of the decision points and the data analytics live and exist, up to the core of the network, which again, is the workhorse of where things are routed and where traffic is steered and what is the different types of traffic that you're trying to get from the source to the endpoint, and then of course back into the data center in the cloud, which is the place where most of the content is either originated or stored or served up. So when we talk about end-to-end, we do talk about every point in that continuum, and the need to have programmable, intelligent computing and communications capability which is very very different from what we've had historically from a network infrastructure perspective. So network transformation is all about embracing server-based technologies and the volume economics benefits that that brings for its relation technology and the fact that you can pool assets and use 'em across many different users and use cases, and of course cloud as both a technology and a business model and the idea that you can lease an asset and afford to lease almost unlimited compute capability, and then release it when you're done. So that end-to-end view and that transformation of the underlying infrastructure is really what we talk about when we talk about network transformation and because 5G requires that programmable computing capability all across that continuum, and in particular being closer and closer to those endpoints, whether they're the autonomous car, or they're drones, or robots, or of course the things that we're quite familiar with in terms of tablets and laptops and smartphones, that is really what we're now enabling under that umbrella of network transformation and 5G is accelerating. >> John: And for the folks watching and listening, we had a great interview with Lynn Comp, who went and did a drill down on NFE and some of those cool tech behind that. On the business model, kind of the landscape question, you mentioned drones, certainly hot. People can look at drones, they see the autonomous vehicles. This is an environment where these new applications and use cases are emerging. So there always seems to be the challenge, and we had an expert discussion this morning in theCUBE here in Palo Alto, around the trade-off between bandwidth and true mobility, and sometimes there is some trade-offs. And not one technology or partner will win it, and you guys are a big part of that. What is your view and Intel's view on the kinds of robust, diverse technologies that are needed to balance the many use cases, and at the same time, create an open ecosystem around fostering this new future growth, which seems to be a big wave we haven't seen since the iPhone in 2007. This is a really game changer. How do you guys view this multitude of technologies and diverse ecosystem and how do you guy foster that? >> Sandra: As Intel, we are a technology innovator and a technology leader and of course that clock never stands still, right? So you need to innovate (laughs) on the technology front and bring out new capabilities, and in particular as that computing and communications world come together, we know that we need to integrate more of the network and wireless IP into the standard roadmap of processors and capabilities that we bring to the market, both in hardware and software ingredients. But as we do that, we are trying to protect the software investment that the developers make in bringing new and emerging applications to market. So while we have, of course, huge CPU assets within Intel, we also have SCGA assets for use cases that would involve changing algorithms, whether they're security algorithms that are deployed differently in different parts of the world, different countries, or of course artificial intelligence, which is again an emerging field with new algorithms and new computational requirements, or on the radio side where the 5G wireless standards are going to be taking route and solidifying over the next several years and continue to evolve. You want to have that programmability so the SCGA assets come into play. And then we leverage that even further with some of the ASIC competency that we have, where you really do work in a hardened piece of silicon, on the ability to run very very fast calculations, many many times over, and to do it in as efficient possible way, both from a cost and count perspective. But all of that underlying hardware and silicon architecture choice really needs to be served up to a broad ecosystem through a software framework that is consistent and undeterministic in where you have a very robust toolchain which is really what Intel invests in. So we invest in robust and comprehensive software tools and frameworks so that we can tap into the very broadest application developer ecosystem that exists in the world. And that's how we see the capabilities that we bring to market tapping into our technology innovation in silicon and software ingredients, but then tapping into, again, something that we believe deeply in, which is a broad ecosystem, and the more market participation you have, the faster that innovation curve that you can drive. >> John: "Rising tide floats all boats," I love that saying, I think that seems to be the case here. Sandra, I want to get your thoughts on the business model on telcos and the industry. People know Mobile World Congress is the big show, but it's also where everyone who's anyone in the business goes, it's a lot of business conversations. I'm sure you're backed up between meeting and meeting after meeting because you got a lot of customers there. Take us through some of the hallway conversations you're having or specific business conversations that you're meeting with customers. What's the buzz in the hallways and what specific conversations are you having with the customers around commercializing, not just accelerating, but commercializing the business models that are going to emerge from these new use cases? >> Sandra: Yeah, well you know actually that's a great question because I've been coming to Mobile Congress for many many years and a lot of the network transformation discussions, and a lot of the discussions even around NFE and FEN in years past, have been rooted in the desire to try to achieve the lower cost point, a total cost of operation that was lower, when you move from fixed-function, purpose-filled, can't reprogram, reprovision the hardware to do anything other than what it was originally designed to do, even though the asset utilization on that investment was very low, 20% maybe 30% at best. So it was this desire to move to, again, volume economics and server-based technology and the benefits of virtualization and pooling. So it started in a cost-optimization type of conversation, but the map moved in the last year, certainly with 5G, into much more, "Well how do we innovate "services faster? "How do we bring new capabilities to market? "And how do we really help to grow the top line, "not just manage our costs?" And I think that's what you're seeing at this event this year, is the excitement around virtual reality and augmented reality, the excitement around a smart home and all the capabilities that you'll have in your appliances and in your infrastructure in your own home and how you run your household. Seeing all of the innovations that we've got in smart cities, so smart lighting, smart water systems, smart meters, and smart parking, another thing that we're seeing here in terms of a set of use cases that we're enabling. Of course, no trade show event that you're talking about in terms of new use cases and new experiences is complete without an autonomous car, so we have a beautiful BMW 7 Series auton. vehicle that we're showcasing here, but again, this is part of what we're enabling in terms of new use cases when you have virtual unlimited computes being brought to the edge of the network with all new radio technologies to address a lot of that bandwidth, a lot of that latency, highly sensitive type of ultra-reliable capability that you need for an autonomous car. So what you're seeing is these smart cities and virtual reality and autonomous driving and smart home, and how all of the underlying technologies make that possible. And from a business perspective, all those new services are clearly what the communication service providers are trying to deliver to the market and trying to do it in a way that embraces cloud business models but also working with all of the enterprises and that traditional business, whether it's an automotive industry or whether it's an industrial automation industry or even all of the appliances that go into your home. All these traditional businesses really disrupting themselves to embrace technology and to bring many more capabilities that, again, have never been possible before. >> John: Yeah the car really brings this data center to the edge in full light for the consumer. It's a moving data center, needs to talk to a base station, needs to talk to the network. And really, this is the new normal. You see Alexa in the home and the voice activation, all the coolness going on there. And a lot of folks have criticized the telcos in the past for being very good at turning on subscribers and billing them as their core competency. But now with IOT, you have literally, you know, provisioning that's happening so fast and so dynamic, you have literally anything with a SIM card is now on the network. This kind of changes the notion of a subscriber. So, moving from that bill to operational in this new thousands of things and people on the network, it's not as clean as it was in the old days. Are the telcos on this? Do they get this concept? I mean, this changes the requirements for the network to be more dynamic and manage the technologies. >> Sandra: It's a fundamental transformation that they're going through, rooted in an urgent business problem that they have, which is that the more data that is created and consumed, the more they have to build out the capacity, but they have to do that in an affordable way, and they can't do it when they're provisioning new services and capabilities and hardware, and particularly in hardware that only does what it was originally intended to do, and they're now moving to a model that is software-defined, where you are able to innovate and provision and deploy at the speed of software, not being anchored in hardware. But they really are absolutely welcoming that opportunity, again, to bring those new services and capabilities to market when they can create a network infrastructure that becomes a platform of innovation, where they can attract developers to imagine new use cases and applications and capabilities that they themselves have the DNA to do but they have such unique assets. They have spectrum, they have contextual information about network bandwidth and conditions. They have customer profile information. They have a billing relationship. >> John: They need security, too, as well. >> Sandra: They have security and reliability, and I mean, all of those assets, if they can tap into that and serve that up, as again, a platform upon which innovation can happen, then that's really their endgame. So while, to your point, they may have been criticized as being kind of slow moving, we really do see them embracing fully this idea that, in order to grow their top lines, and in order to innovate faster in terms of services that, embracing again this fundamental different architectural model of computing and communication converging the server-based and cloud-based technologies, is the wave of the future. And you know 5G just put the nice bow on it, right, because it just makes everything go faster given that all these new use cases that we're looking to enable. >> Producer: Hey John, you only have one question left, so key money question if you want. >> John: Great, my final question. Sandra, my final question is: what's the bumper sticker this year for Mobile World Congress?" If you had to put the bumper sticker on the car, what would it say this year to encapsulate Mobile World Congress? >> Sandra: So for me, it's "5G Starts Today." Because, in order to be ready for all those drones and robots and autonomous cars and all of those immersive experiences in your living room, you really have to transform the network infrastructure today, and that composability of the network infrastructure of the ability to capture a slice of the network and optimize it in realtime for your use case, all that requires programmable, scalable, flexible computing that is secure, that's reliable, and that embraces cloud architectures and cloud business models. And so that is happening today to get ready for 2018, 2019, 2020, when you see many more of those endpoints, those end devices, and those use cases come to be realized, you need to get started today. So 5G is absolutely on its way, and we're very very excited to be a key enabler of that vision. >> John: Sandra Rivera, thanks so much. Corporate Vice President/ General Manager of the Network Platforms Group at Intel. Really bringing the end-to-end technology enabling communications service providers to take their networks to the next level. Getting ready for 5G and bringing the performance to the edge of the network. Thanks for taking the time on theCUBE, calling in from Barcelona, really appreciate it. Have a great day. >> Sandra: Thanks, John, you too! (pulsing music)