I'm going alive I'm live right now let's send you this link and see if you can get on here so this is private see if I can break this out this is [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] hello they're coming you live from Chuck alley studio here in Mountain View California and I'm on YouTube live I hope I'm not securing anything outta been out there for two minutes now let's be able to do a live private stream and be able to have that account that link to people - yeah okay yes you see me voice what's up what's up what's up so this is a private link I don't know if you can hear me that's a private link and if you give the link to whoever you want to see it oh you can't hear me hmm one two one two one two three four stop that

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the Cube covering A W s reinforce 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. Everyone were accused Live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts, for AWS reinforce. First inaugural conference runs security. I'm Jeffrey. David Lot there. Next guest is Dan Hubbard, CEO of lacework. I've started at a Mountain View, California. Great to have you on. Thanks for joining us. >> Thanks. Thanks for having me. >> So, you know, reinvent was developers Reinforces. Kind of like, si SOS coding security cloud and intersecting with security. This is a new kind of show. What's your take on? >> Super impressed so far? I mean, there's about 1000 people here, you know, way have literally hundreds of demos lined up in the booth s oh, really impressed so far. First impressions. >> It's a good move for Amazon. Do. Ah, security conference. Don't you think I mean >> really smart, Really smart. It's a lot more about defending than a lot of security conference about offense and vulnerabilities and how to find kind of holes and weak cracks. This is really about how do we defend you know, our security in the cloud >> Talk about your company. Your mission? You guys air started going after a hot space. Si SOS or CEO spending Talk to They want a new breed of supplier service provider. Certainly cloud a p. I is gonna be critical in all of this. So you start to see really smart platform thinking systems, thinking around companies around the security challenge and opportunity. What? What do you guys do? Explain what you guys? >> Yes, we really believed you know, this new wave of cloud I s and pass really needs a new architecture. It's a whole new architecture from a 90 perspective. So we need a new architect from a security perspective. And the great thing about the operating model is you could do a wide set of things and then go deep in the areas that are really important. So at least work does we allow you to secure? I asked. Past service is with compliance configuration host and container security. There's one platform that kind of wraps across all of those >> different targeting developers, right? So they don't have to think about security all the time. Is that the poor thing? >> Yeah, definitely. Eso in almost every case. Security is unlocking the budget. However, Dev Ops is involved, Dev Ops is involved from an influence. But, you know, it used to be that developers would ask security for permission. Now security's going back to developers and asking for permission to security >> infrastructure. He said that with the architecture is gonna be different because the the the I t. Is changing. So cloud security needs a new architecture. One of the fundamentals of that architecture and how is it different from security on prim? >> So I think it has to be SAS. So it's gotta be delivered multi cloud from the cloud. You know, we're gonna secure the cloud. It really should be from the cloud, their business models, that should be different. It's almost always a subscription is not perpetual models. You know you're annually re occurring your revenue. You're always keeping your customers happy and you're always innovating. The pace of innovation has to be really quick because the pace of the cloud is moving at such a dramatic speed. >> So that the those kind of business oriented you know, that's kind of a different definition of architecture. Technically, is it a fundamental do over Or is it fundamentally similar? >> Wolf. You know, there's some of the tenants which are the same, you know, we need to get visibility. That's very similar. You know, we have controls needed have auditing. We need to find threats. However, the way you do it is very different. So you don't own the hardware, you don't own the racks, you don't own the network. You gotta get used to that. You gotta live above the responsibility line. You have to fit within their infrastructure. So what that means is you need to be very happy. I friendly because we're sucking a lot of data on Amazon were pulling in configuration cloudtrail data, and you'll have to be able to deploy inside their infrastructures. We support things like kubernetes things like docker or we also interoperate things like bare metal and you know, in the AM eyes themselves, what >> problem you guys solve. Every startup has that cultural doctor, and they sometimes you weave into a market and also you get visibility into into a key value proper. What's the key problem that you saw? What's the benefit >> so that the key value we solve is if you are in the cloud or migraine in the cloud. We give you compliance configuration and threat protection across all your clowns. So, irrespective of which cloud you live in or operate in, we give you one central threat detection engine and that which gives you visibility but also gives you compliance and controls into that. >> So Amazon has this, you know she had responsibility model. They're they're protecting the compute, the storage, the database and customers are responsible for the end points. The operating system, the data, etcetera, etcetera. And Amazon certainly has tools. Help them. What is fuzzy to me sometimes is you know where eight of us leaves off. Where ecosystem partners like you guys come in. You obvious have to keep moving fast to your point. Absolute. Can you help us sort of squint through that maze? >> Sure. Yeah. I mean, the easiest way that I can explain it is if you could configure it, you have to secure everything. Below is the providers responsibility. That said, there are different areas where things are kind of peeking through the responsibility lines. So what I see is a world where there's not 50 security vendors that you've bought like in premise or traditional data center, but your Inter operating with a provider. So you know, the big three providers open source and then a solution like ours. So it's more about how do we interoperate there together? But what we do is we sit actually right within your container on the host themselves with an agent, and then we suck in there a p I. So technically, it's a little bit different. >> So the threat of containers is an interesting topic, right? You're spinning him up. It makes V M v ems look like child's play. Yeah, So are you using specific techniques, toe? So the fake out the bad guys make it. You're raising the bar on them and their cost using sort of algorithms to do that spin up, spin him down. You know, like the shell game of asking you. >> What we do is we get baked right into your infrastructure every single time you deploy and run through C I c d. A new container or a new app were baked in there and what we're doing, we're looking all your applications, processes the network traffic and then we look for that no one bad and the unknown bad based off of that. >> So it's native security in the container at the point of creation. Not a not an afterthought. Correct. Yep, >> What? Your take on kubernetes landscape? Obviously, pretty much everyone's kind of consolidate around that from a de facto standard. That's good news, wouldn't it? Koen ETS does is all kinds of stateless state full applications that becomes, like service mess conversation. You got all kinds of services that could land out there, automating all these things these sources were being turned on turned off in real time. >> It's >> a log it >> all. It's incredible. I think Cos. Is the fastest growing enterprise open source project ever. You know where every customer we talked to is either in the midst of migrating migrate or just thinking about it. That said, the world is looking to go multi cloud. But most customers today have, ah, a combination of in premise bare metal am eyes kubernetes containers. What we're doing is we give you visibility into your coup Bernays infrastructure. So we talk pods, nodes, clusters, name spaces and we allow you to secure the management plane. Any communication between those So it's really critical when you're deploying those from a security perspective that you know what's happening. The ephemeral nature of it is very different from regular security to you need to answer questions like what happened for 10 minutes during this time from six months ago, and that's really hard with traditional >> tools, really are. And that's really gonna with automation plays in Talk about the journey of where your customers are going out because we're seeing a progression kind of categorically three kind of levels. I really wanted to go to the cloud. I really want to convince you that cloud every aspiration. Yeah, not realistic, but it's on their plans. Then you've got people who go out and do it gets stuck in the mud. The wheels are spinning culturally, whatever's going on and then full on cloud native hard core Dev ops, eaten glass, spit nails, just kicking ass and taking names right? So you get the leaders. People are kind of in the middle, and then people jumping in. Where do you guys see your benefit? What are some of the challenges? How do you guys >> think it's a super dynamic marketplace? Because what's happening is every big company that may not be fully cloud native, is buying companies that are cloud native. So then they become the sexy new way to deploy, and then they start figure out how to deploy their there. So one of the trains were seeing is core centralized. Security is becoming governance and tooling, and then they're distributing the security function within the AP teams themselves. And that model seems to work really well because you've got security practitioners baked within the Dev Ops team. But then you've got a governing roll with tooling, centralized tooling from there. That said, depending on the customer or the prospect, it's all over the place. You know, many sisters, you're scratching their heads saying, No, you know, I don't know what's going over the cloud guys. They've got a different group that's running it. They're trying to figure out how do I just get visibility? I know my name's you know, I'm the one they're gonna come after if there's a problem. So it's really all over the place >> for your service. So you're baking it in creatively into the container. >> Yep, it doesn't matter. >> You're aware, if you will. >> It is a matter of urine premise or not. Containers or not, we worked across all of them. >> Was that the hook for your sort of original idea? Your business plan? Your investors you've raised, I think 32,000,000. You got 70 employees. What was that hook? What attracted the investment Community >> Theory journal? Idea was, if you're deployed in the cloud and you have a breach, how do you know you had a breach? Things that happen to come and go very quickly. All the data's encrypted on the network. I don't have full visibility on the network itself. So that was the original idea. How would I go back in time kind of time machine to find out what happened then? Way originally supported eight of us and it was really about visibility within 80 bus infrastructure. Then kubernetes happened. Now the big hook really is amazing containers. Am I using kubernetes? And then how do I make sure I'm compliant and then following best practices and then that breach that breach scenario still definitely happens. Everybody tries the service before they buy it. They're almost always finding out problems along the way. >> What did kubernetes do for you guys? That made a consensus step, function, change or what you guys were doing? Was it because they had the dynamic nature of the service's was orchestration? What specifically was the benefit? >> I think the orchestration, the single management plane from a security perspective, is one of the big things. You get access to that one brain, if you will. You have access to everything. Obviously, the ephemeral workload is big that it was enforcement kubernetes with service messes. Things like pot security policies allows us to hook a P eyes in a way that you can actually write enforcement versus a firewall or some of these old school ways of killing packets. >> Yes, you got a cloud native approach. Kubernetes comes along. It's aligns with your sort of philosophy and >> architectural, and we run today's ourselves. So our entire infrastructure is based off of kubernetes. We were kubernetes user very early on, so, you know, we just take the things that we learn to our customers. >> So here's a quote from a seesaw. I won't say his or her name, but I want to get your reaction to it when talking about dealing with suppliers, looking for the new generation of like what you guys are doing you got, I would put you in the new classification of emerging suppliers. This is the message to all the suppliers in the room. I happen to be in there having a P I and don't have its suck because you eyes shifting to a p a u ie Focus is shifting to FBI focus. So we are evaluating every supplier on their eight b. I's your reaction to that? >> I absolutely agree. So there's two levels of AP eyes. One is you have to interrupt it with the guys from the providers in order to get the data properly. Right. That's a big, big component. Others, you have to have a P eyes for your consumers. You can't automate without a P I. So that's really critical. That said, I will disagree a little bit on the u X and Y aspect. If you are triaging data, it's really important that you have the right data at the right time and visualizing that data in a ways. It's pretty important. >> How real is multi cloud, in your opinion, I mean, everybody's talking about multi cloud Ah la times we've said multi cloud. It's none of us a symptom of multi vendor. But increasingly it could be a strategy in terms of your thinking about your total available market, your market opportunity. How real is it when you're conversations with Coast? >> It's very really. We were really surprised. We first started supporting eight of us, and then we had a G, C, P and Azure together. Now we have a core principle that everything we build has to be parody across all the clouds. And we had a huge uptick across G, C, P and as your very early. So we were really surprised. What we were surprised about was, it's not portable workloads. So it's not about taking one application distributed across multi cloud. That's kind of fiction. That doesn't happen very often. It's either you bought a company that's in another cloud or use a past service in another cloud, or you have just two totally disparate applications in a large company. They just happen to be in different clouds in the data's in different places. They don't need to interoperate, so it's so it's just a little different, but we're seeing kind >> of horses for courses as well, right? Some clouds may be better for data oriented. >> Here's your point early, and we've heard this in some of the sea. So conversations em and becomes a big factor because they get new teams in new culture and they might have different cloud approaches. But I totally agree with you on that. I would say I would even go more further and saying It's absolute fiction between multi Cloud because it's just got a latent seizes on the connections, whether they're direct connections are not welcome on the factor. So I've always said, and I kind of believe in I'd love to get your thoughts on. It is the workload should dictate to the infrastructure which clouded should you know, and go with one cloud for that. If it makes sense on, then use multi cloud across workloads and low can handle a better cloud. Cloud Cloud selection. Be joined by the workload. >> Yeah, it's certainly from an out >> the other way around. >> Yeah, it's certainly from application perspective. You want a silo? It, you know, probably there. I think what's interesting about a lot of the work each provider is doing in security a lot people ask. Well, you know, why don't I just use all my provider security tools. And the answer is they got some great tools. You should use those for sure, but there is a bunch of technology above that you can use. And then you got a span across multiple clouds. What you don't want is three different AP eyes for security across every single cloud. That's gonna be a major pain or >> have to stitch. And that's where you guys come in. Absolutely. >> What's your take on this show? Reinforce against inaugural show. Love to go. The knuckle shows they don't have a 2nd 1 because they were there. Yeah, reinvent you made a calm before we came on. Reinvents started out. We were there early on as well. There's developers. Yeah, it wasn't a lot of fanfare. In fact, you could wander around Andy Jazz. It wasn't crowded. It all great, great time. That was younger. Now Amazons gotten much stronger. Bigger? What's the vibe here? Is that developers for security? Is it si SOS? Is it? What's your read on the makeup and the focus of the attendees? >> So I think it's it's a little bit of a mix of both, which I think is good you know, I've met a number of developers or what I would call kind of new breed security engineers. These are engineers that arm or interested in? How does the cloud work an inter operate? And how do you secure that versus, like reverse engineering malware with assembler, which you know a lot of the other places there really about the threats? And what of the threats and how specific or those This is really a little bit more about? How do we up our game from from a security perspective in this New World order, which is really >> get plowed. Very agile, very fast, yet horizontally scalable, elastic, all the goodness of cloud Final question developers Bottom line is developers continue to code and do the things, whether it's a devil's culture of having a hack a phone and testing new things, that which is how things roll now, getting into productions hard. What's the developers impact to security? Is the trend coming out of the show that security baked in enough to think about it like how configuration management took that track and Dev Ops took that away? You mentioned that earlier you figure you can secure it yet. So similar track for security going the way of automation. What's your? >> It's a lot of automation is gonna be critical for sure. And then it's gonna be a combination of Security and Dev ops together, you know, Call it DEP SEC Ops, code security engineer. Whatever you want to call it, it's definitely a combination of both. Security people are going away, that's for sure. You know, we're still gonna need security experts. And focus is just a critical aspect about this. >> Dan, Thanks for the insight coming on here. Reinforced. Take a quick second. Give a plug for your company. What you guys looking to do? Your hiring? What's going on? The company? >> Sure lacework. We're gonna help you protect all your workloads, Your configuration. Compliance in the cloud regardless of which cloud way are hiring websites lacework dot com and way love Thio culture Their cultures great, Very fast moving very fast paced, very modern way live and breathe by the success of our customers It's a subscription business. So now we have to continue innovating and renewing. Our customers >> got smart probably to get dealing combination containers. Thanks for coming on. Your coverage here live in Boston. General David, Want to stay tuned for more live coverage after this short break

>> Live from Mountain View, California it's theCUBE, covering DevNet Create 2019. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Okay welcome back everyone we're here live for day two coverage we're winding down at DevNet Create this is Cisco's, conferences theCUBE coverage I'm John Fourier, your host. Two days of coverage DevNet is the group the developer group DevNet Create in the never event that they bring together. We're here with Zeus Kerravala, principal analyst ZK research breaking it down with me we're going to do a debrief, break down what's happening at DevNet. Zeus great to see you thanks for coming on, let's wrap this up so what's going on with Cisco 'cause you know we've been following, I've known Susie Wee for many many years over a decade watching, what's happened is almost like I never would've thought this would have been possible almost like 10 years ago. Cisco the incumbent bought all these companies maybe lose grip on the networking, boom there's a renaissance with Cloud, they got their mojo, back developers repp in to the right a whole new changing of the guard. >> Well the network's certainly back and in fact I've been following Cisco a long time I was a customer Cisco section before I was an analyst and I've been following the developer initiatives at Cisco since 2001 the first time they tried and when Susie took this role I was as skeptical as they could be because I saw developer initiative failed developer initiative failed and I said it's not going to work the culture inside Cisco is not ready for it and behold, you know a few years later after all our hard work almost six hundred thousand members I'd say it's working I think one of the trends that's actually helping Cisco is that the IT in the world's kind of come to them I think they spend a lot of along time on the outside looking in that you know being a major strategic IT partner that was more the compute vendors the application partners but if you look today at the trends digital transformation the technology that are driving that are things like Internet of Things, Mobility, Cloud computing and Artificial Intelligence and those are all Network centric paradigms so in a way we you know we live in a world where everything's connected and think about it your own personal life John what can you do without the network, you can't watch movies, you can't play games, you can't read books, you can't do anything without the network and so the network has never been more important and Cisco's finally opened their network up to the point where developers can actually build things on top of it so you know they used to talk about the network being a platform and it was really just a platform other Cisco stuff but now it's truly a platform for others to create on it to add value. >> I mean I think it's one of you're totally right on that I think it's create analysis because it's like hey they didn't really screw it up there they didn't such a great strategic position as a supplier to the network's and it was like they wake up, oh my god we're in good position here why don't we just take advantage of the fact that everything's networked, network effect, social networks, network constructs you're totally right I think this is a game changer but then how do you explain the success now, I mean obviously new leadership, was it a leadership change, was it a realization, what's your analysis of the Susie as a team, she was a catalyst, what was the real turning point in your mind? >> Well I think leadership change was part of it and in fact part of the very first thing one of the very first things Chuck Robbins ever said to me when he took over as CEO, he promised me that Cisco would listen to customers and if there's something that's good for customers, Cisco wanted to lead that effort and you could argue that historically they weren't really on board with things that might have been bad Cisco but good for customers, now they are and one of the trends that in order for DevNet to work one of the things you have to do, is open up the network and conceptually you might think well if we open up the network now we might put ourselves in a competitively weaker position but ultimately that's good for customers you can build applications that add value to that network and so I think the big culture chip with Cisco came in with Chuck Robbins their new CEO it's not so new anymore, but a willingness to listen to customers be open and allow others to co-create on the network and that's really been the foundation for DevNet and Susie taken the ball and run with it. >> She's got the chops, technical chops MIT background understands tech knows research, knows how to make it real, she's done that but it's also the wave that they're on to, they've got some waves that are really in their favor, that's right in great position, I mean IoT you couldn't ask for the edge of the network exploding an opportunity now more than ever I mean it's been over, Cisco you always heard over the years we got to move up to the stack, there's now the full, got to go to the edge and push beyond the edge now you got power at the end you got tons of opportunity, OT, Operational Technologies, the software is kind of all built for hardware, you got IT connected devices in an IoT with GPUs on them, I mean come on, and then Wi-Fi sits over the top, >> I think one of things IoT done is its democratized the edge, if you think historically about the value of the network was commonly thought that the closer you get to the data center, the more value the network had, the branch edge less value more edge but now you've got a user edge, client access edge, an IoT edge, branch edge or wireless edge, there's is so many edges now and we're are creating data at every one of those points and what that means, we need to do analysis we need, you know to be able to do with Machine Learning at those points we need access to the data we need to be able to develop in those points and so the whole network has now been democratized where I feel there's not one part of the network that has more valuable it's all valuable and DevNet allows customers be able to tap into that. >> Can we just give it all those IoT names, called the network. >> Well that's what essentially what it is, that's a big shift for the industry to start thinking about the wireless network and the wired network and the data center network and you're right it is just one network and it needs to be treated that way. >> And on-prem Clouds still got to move packets from A to B, store stuff as well, states important all these things are coming back it's not really changing what distributed computing used to be so you know given that being said Cisco has a position. I want to get your thoughts on something that some we talk about here at the event not many people in mainstream might get this or not, I want to get your take on it. Having the portfolio of products all have api's is the potential game changer across the board what's your analysis of what that could possibly turn into because you know having things with api's on them every device is only going to create more connections of data to other devices to share and compose and create data what's the impact for the people watching that it might be in wall street saying what's the impact of having api's on every single product? >> Yeah I think it turns Cisco into a platform company and I think you're right it is a game-changer for the company. I think historically Cisco value was driven by the Cisco product, the product portfolio, it's like the routers the switches things like that, now that they've opened up their API is you're going to start seeing small software companies, large software companies systems integrators ISPs all building things to run the Cisco network and that creates a fantastic pull through effect the fact that was talking with one of the Cisco earlier today about when they do get pulled through, the cost to sale goes way down because the application partner that pulls them through so their cost to sale is really just whatever they pay out to the application vendors, it's very very low so their margins will go up you'll see them in bigger deal sizes and when you're part of that application ecosystem there's not as much tendency to pound the vendor for discounts right, so I think it puts this on a much more strategic position because now they're a part of something bigger, they're part of company transformation, they're part of application transformation and that will have a significant impact both on revenue but more important on margin company will start making more money. >> That's a great point on the pull through and sales cost impact a margin but also if you also factor in first of all great analysis but I want to get your thoughts on the ecosystem impact is the conscious i've been having with solution providers they're like, well hey I'm coming into retail and I'm coming into manufacturing in healthcare and I'm actually deploying solutions. I'm getting higher margins on my stuff. So you have contribution value going value contribution going to the partners as well not just on the Cisco. >> That's important 'cause Cisco company it's a partner led company of ninety percent of their sales go through their partner channel and for them they're always want to drive more value into that and I think for the resellers too, for their partners they need to understand that if they embrace DevNet, they embrace a lot of the applications, they are going to have more strategic relationships with their customers, their deal sizes will go up, they'll have better margins and it'll put them in a better position as well. So I think the loyalty that you see in Cisco's channel will continue to grow and frankly nobody's got the size, the install base that Cisco has so it's hard, it's really going to be hard to compete with them. >> Let me get your thoughts on as a study of the industry the horses on the track, you got other competitors you got good opportunities for expansion with Cloud Multi-Cloud, but I'm not sure that they might see the clear visibility yet into the financial impact of Multi-Cloud, so the question is what point do they start cannibalizing and eating their own to get that pole position as the battle ship of the big move happens with Cisco is that is they have this company transformation they have really huge revenue streams in other markets, Telco is that's disrupting, okay. Multi-class so when do they start cannibalizing and eating their own to bring in the new, is that on their minds, 'cause i just see there might be some antibodies that might be inside Cisco trying to say well this Cloud things not yet proven or let's see the revenue visibility into the Cloud. >> Yeah I think there's probably some of that inside Cisco and you'll have some fighting between groups. But I do think it's a net additive Cisco, I think you wind up what what the Cloud does is it makes you want network services and more places. I want, I need a network, I certainly can't get rid of my network if I'm connecting to the Cloud right they need to connect to it, but then I'm going to want to have the Cisco portfolio and network services available in Amazon or Google or Microsoft Azure and they have relationships with those companies, so I'm sitting away what it does is it takes what Cisco started on the company premise and it extends it up to the Cloud and so ultimately, what customers want almost every large enterprise they want, want some kind of hybrid environment, but the environment has to look the same on-prem in the Cloud and I think Cisco is a good position to be able to bridge that gap and so I you could look at it as cannibalizing, I don't really think it does. I think it's a net additive to Cisco, I think internally they may need to restructure things in order to get some of the business units that might be affected on board with that but ultimately it's-- >> Some tweaks basically not hardcore wholesale changes >> No they've already done a lot of tweaking. If you look the leadership team that some place now is completely different than five years ago. So they've done a lot of realignment and a lot of tweak and I think they're ready for this. >> Horses on the track, competition, Cisco's in good place Multi-Cloud seems like a great play, Multi-Cloud, internetworking was a big, Coax cables head hubs, you had subnets it sounds like Multi-Cloud might be a great similar trajectory of what internetworking was as a segment. Multi-Cloud might seem like a perfect fit for Cisco. >> Yeah well multi-Cloud extends the the current network out to the multiple Clouds and I think what what's important understand there is it does raise the bar on complexity a Multi-Cloud network is going to be more complicated to run than a plain simple On-premise network but Cisco's this is where a Cisco software business is important, DNA Center they've done a lot of work in that area to to mask a lot of complexity so if customers that use DNA center they're going to be able to use that software interface as a way to manage it and so now instead of having to configure every box one by one and I was a network engineer I do that now you do it in one central location and push it out everywhere, if I had that I would have had a lot more free times. >> Yeah, since you're a network engineer I used to do those wide area networks myself back in the day command line in telnet it into boxes all that good stuff, when you look at the vision of programmability of networks which I love that term by the way. I've always loved even when Juniper had Juno so originally that overlay love software mixing in. I love this notion of programmability not yet fully understood but it makes sense. How do you think that's going to play out? Looking back, are we going to look back in time saying hey you know 2019 this was a seminal moment or was it not seminal moment? How important is this programmability going to be for Cisco in the industry? >> Well it's extremely important as a way to be able to automate network functions and I talked a lot of the DevNet people here I think they're starting to warm up to automation, I think there's a little bit of trepidation at first that's hey it's going to take my job but I think what's happening to IT people today is there's so much to do that they simply don't have time to do a lot of what they did before you know what it's like if I'm running a legacy Network, I'm literally configuring every box one by one. So if I got a thousand branches, I'm going to make a change, I got to hit a thousand boxes right, that's not very efficient so now I can do it in one place and push it out across and so I think what programmability does is it lets me automate and orchestrate things better to the point where the network should be able to run itself and now as an IT person I can go focus on more strategic initiatives. I'll give me an anecdote from a CEO I talked a little while ago this is a few months ago. He said my IT department is becoming less and less relevant to me and I need them to become more relevant, I need them to help me innovate but they can't because they're busy running the day-to-day, I need them to find a way to offload that and that's what programmability does. It lets you offload the things that aren't strategic right my advice to IT people is if you're doing things today there aren't strategic to your resume or your company, don't do them find a way to automate them and that's where programming. >> And giving good cost structure in line but driving revenue is a great resume boost. (laughing) >> No one's going to hire you because you can configure that ACLS through that command line faster than the next guy, that's not a strategic way to drive your-- >> Are we're going to see you obviously at Cisco live as well? >> I'll be at Cisco live. >> Great love to get your perspective in summary, put a bow around DevNet, I'm a big fan of Susie and her team I've seen it from day one, yours as well, what are they going to do next I was they got a good success formula here. How do they scale it, how do you see them taking this inside Cisco and continuing to explode it internally as well as externally what's your view on what they what they should be doing? >> Well I think it's reached critical mass and I think there was a couple of things they had to do to get to this point. One was obviously build the user base but also get DevNet relevant across the portfolio and it is that everything from collab to data center security. I think looking at ahead what's next, is they got to find a way to get the general Cisco salesperson to be able to sell this to understand the value which I'm not so sure it's there and also they have a massive partner community as you talked about all the resellers, this has to now become part of that partner sale, the partners need to understand if I sell the concept of some of these advanced applications that run on top of it, I'm going to have better feel for myself and so I think now it's about the structures in place, now it's about executing to be able to get the kind of exponential value out of this. >> This is really operationalize it to the next level, is it on a startup budget, did it create success, thanks for sharing that great commentary. They're breaking it down here in the end of the game, games over, end of DevNet Create third year we've been cover the beginning while in Susie journey following Cisco as developers become more important in the modern era of new applications where network programmability will be an advantage, this is the future they're betting on Cloud computing, AI, GPUs on all devices, API is everywhere, this is the Cisco strategy it's theCUBE coverage signing off from Mountain View, thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(lively pop music) >> Live from Mountain View, California. It's the Cube covering DevNet Create 2019. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Okay welcome back everyone, we're here at day two coverage live of coverage at Mountain View, Cube coverage of Cisco's DevNet Create. I'm John Furrier, your host, where all the action is in the creation side of two communities, DevNet, Cisco developers and then the open cloud native world entrepreneurship coming together to create products. Our next guest is Nik Kalyani, co-founder of WhenHub and TryCrypto. He's a builder, he's a creator, he's an entrepreneur. Welcome to The Cube, thanks for coming on >> John, thanks for having me. >> You just gave a long talk so I'll let you breathe a little bit. You're an entrepreneur, you're an inventor, you see things early. You got a lot of your hands on lots of good stuff here. This is the perfect place for you to be giving talks and hanging out. >> Absolutely I love the fact that people are here to learn. They're here to find out about the new innovative things that they can experience hands-on. I just gave a workshop on smart contracts, on the blockchain and I loved the questions I got and the energy that's there. >> What sort of questions were you getting? What was the interest? Where are people going at it? Because networking's a supply chain problem you can almost imagine applying blockchain to networking constructs. >> Yeah absolutely, you know blockchain is one of those technologies that is misunderstood quite a bit and some of the questions I got really helped me, help reinforce that. Ultimately, what I was trying to do is make sure that people understand that blockchain is not a solution for everything. There are certain things where there are scenarios where there are multiple un-trusted parties where blockchain is great, but otherwise it's just a slow database. So you want to make sure that you use it in the right scenarios and supply chain is a very common example where it's used, especially private blockchains. >> If latency's not a concern blockchain might be a solution if other things line up. Great point, I'm glad you brought that up. I want to just ask you because your profile as a person you're a visionary, you see things early. The part of the show here that's interesting is it's not like there's this research kind of thinking, although researchers tends to think about the waves coming. It's about what's here and now and what's coming but it's also making things real and creating. So a lot of the conversations are fun, exploratory, discovery orientated but also there's a lot of reality kind of grounded in it. You know entrepreneurs make some mistakes if you're too early, you're misunderstood for a long time. It's got to be a little bit early at the right time, timing's everything. Talk about the dynamic of timing and building and creating with big waves that are coming. You got cloud, you got blockchain, you got AI, you got machine learning. Talk about this dynamic. >> Absolutely, yeah so timing is so important, especially when you have start-ups right? You could have the greatest technology and maybe the market's not ready for it and so yeah it fails. My first start up was like that. I created something that the market was not ready for but fortunately the stuff I'm working on the market is ready for. So I think one of the things that developers, engineers can do is really look at how not necessarily how a technology is being marketed but what the adoption rate is. If there are more people jumping on it, and a good way to look at that is to look at GitHub and see how many people are creating samples, boilerplates, how many people are writing blog posts et cetera. That I think is a better indicator of whether a technology is ready for prime time or if it's just all vaporware. >> Tell about what you're working on now you're working on some very interesting projects. Where are they? What's the status, size of the team, collaborative open source. What's going on? >> So I have two start-ups I'm working on. the first one is called WhenHub. So we have a product called Interface that allows anyone to be an expert on any topic, and promote themselves through the platform. And allows anyone who's looking for expertise on any topic to find them and then pay for them and do a video call, get their questions answered and the whole transaction is handled via blockchain with either our cryptocurrency or you can use Apple Pay or Google Pay. So we launched a few months ago, we have about 75,000 users, it's growing very fast. We are just at the point right now where we are trying to scale-up. Our crypto token is called WHEN token. It's listed on five different exchanges. So that's one thing. While building that product one thing became very clear to me. Mainstream users have a very challenging time with using anything blockchain or cryptocurrency related. And it's through no fault of theirs, the ecosystem has been created for developers by developers and the tools lack empathy for the users. And that lead me to create an open source project called TryCrypto. The mission is to create free open source content and tools to make blockchain and cryptocurrency more accessible to users. >> To mainstream not the killer dorks and the guys coding. >> Yeah we want it to be like non-technical folks >> Is it the wallet that's the problem or is it just overall too techy? >> You know what John, the very word wallet is the problem. (John laughs) Because it gives this idea that there's something within it. As we were talking earlier, you know about blockchain, there's nothing in a wallet. It's just a placeholder for all of your addresses, right? So in fact, I'm trying to solve that problem with a new tool I've created called Photoblock, where I use a photo and emoji's to replace that. Yes, wallets are problems. The fact that it requires you to have all these parts in place before you can do anything useful, that's a big problem also. People really need to step back and look at the user experience and say what are the friction points and how can we eliminate them and that needs to happen before blockchain and cryptocurrency can have mass adoption. >> Talk about the choice of smart contract language used. Ethereum which was the hottest development oriented the most traction. A lot of ICOs kind of watered that down, it's still under 300. Other ones are emerging, NEO, EO, a bunch of other ones. It seems to be kind of like a NASCAR race, one's in the lead, someone's coming up. How do you look at that marketplace as other developers start to kick the tires? As people start building these real-world apps is that important to have a selector? Does it matter? What's your thoughts on selection? >> That's a great question. I think going back to what I said about how to evaluate a technology. You can see that Ethereum is still continues to be the leader, by far. So while EO and other blockchains have what appears to be a lot of momentum, if you dig down below the surface you don't find as much. So I continue to remain a big fan of Ethereum. Which doesn't mean I don't care for the other blockchains but I find that right now Serenity and Ethereum are a good way to move forward. I think EO is also a good platform to build on but I think their developing tools need to reach some level of maturity. On Ethereum, the folks that have created the truffle stack, the truffle and ganache package, have done a great service for developers because they make them so simple and easy. Something like that needs to evolve. >> Yeah and your point earlier I think it's important to know for the developers out there don't confuse the protocol and the token selection on smart contracts with blockchain. Again, you don't have to anything on blockchain 'cause it's a slow database. You're doing smart contracts which doesn't really require a lot of overhead. I mean it's a contract, it does. You want to have it reliable, but you're not doing zillions of contracts per second. The IOPs are not that high. >> Yeah, actually smart contracts is also a very misunderstood term. In fact, someone asked me is it legal contracts or medical contracts, what is it? A smart contract is really just an application. A programming code that runs on the virtual machines on blockchain. They call it a contract because once it's out there it's immutable. Which means the rules are defined, known and fixed and can't be changed. So when you create a smart contract, really what you're doing is handling a very small amount of data that you want to persist forever that runs with some rules. >> And in a decentralized world, as we call it in our community, it's a digital handshake. You agreed that we would do this, there it is, it's un-hackable. What are the cool things you're working on? What else you got? Opensource project's awesome. You got a lot going on. Life's good. >> Life is good. As I mentioned, Photoblock is the thing that I'm really excited about. Another app that we are building is called Public Record. The problem we are solving there is that in areas where there is strife, or maybe there's dictators et cetera, sometimes when you have people who have photos of some crime occurring or some event occurring, they are reluctant to share it because it could be traced back and have adverse consequences. With Public Record we are building a smart contract driven blockchain app. Where you can just take a photo and it will push that photo on to IPFS. Which stands for the InterPlanetary File System, which is a decentralized file system. It will anonymize the photo. It will strip all the stuff that your camera puts on there like GPS, the camera model et cetera. It'll manipulate that photo and it will then put a hash of that on the blockchain and make it available by location. So you can go to any location look at all the photos that people have taken there that are completely anonymous and impossible to track back to the >> And what about tampering proof? You have origination data, you strip out the real origination data, that's really important for some of these countries where people get killed for sharing or trying to get the backdoor out of the country for political revolution or just simply I don't want anybody to know. How about tamper proof? >> It is, it's on IPFS, which is immutable file system. What we also do is we manipulate the colors and tones of the photo a little bit so it's impossible to even use AI to go back and reverse engineer and figure out who created the photo. The location, the time and the actual content of the photo is not tampered. So Public Record will do that. >> Just a little quick Q and A on your company. Did you do an ICO, did you finance it yourself? >> With WhenHub we did do an ICO, but it was at a time when the market was at its bare things so our ICO was moderately successful. In addition to the ICO funds, we are primarily funded by one of my co-founders, Scott Adams, the creator of the Dilbert comic strip. We are doing quite well. >> He's a cool guy to hang out with, huh? >> He is. >> Never a dull moment? >> Never a dull moment, I learn quite a bit. >> Congratulations. How do people find out how to hang out with you? You got some good things going on here. Where do you hang out? What do you do for fun? What events do you go to? What's going on with you? >> I'm on Twitter quite a bit. >> Say your Twitter handle. >> It's @techbubble. I'm there. I like to blog. on TryCrypto and also my own personal blog. I go to meet-up events here in Silicon Valley and I do make an effort to speak at least five to six conferences each year. >> Aim it forward. >> Yep. >> A lot more action going on in crypto and token economics not just from an ICO standpoint always been some negative scams out there and global fraud, but generally, blockchain and token economics is real and getting more traction and soon I think it will be clearer. Your thoughts on that, if you could share your perspective in terms of the opportunities around those two areas. >> Like any other new and exciting technology goes through the hype cycle, they've gone through that now. I think there's really two types of people in this ecosystem. The ones that are focused on the cryptocurrency and the pricing around it et cetera. But I'd really like to separate that from the blockchain aspect of it. Blockchain is a very real technology, it's a really different technology that the world has never seen before. Yes, it's very true that not everything is a good candidate for the blockchain. But there are many, many scenarios where there are multiple un-trusted parties that are excellent for blockchain. I think what needs to happen is persons in leadership position need to really evaluate: what are the scenarios where there are un-trusted entities involved? And limit their blockchain involvement, test pilots, all of that they're more likely to see more success. Versus just throwing blockchain into it, replace the database, 'cause that's guaranteed to be a fail. >> Nik, great to have you on. I totally agree with you. The team here we were in Puerto Rico, we've been in the Bahamas, we've been Toronto we've been to all the blockchain events. Consensus is coming up in New York. We might be there, May 14th. Patrick, getting ready to head down to New York. Maybe go down there. Great to have your perspective. Great to see the blockchain conversation coming in here as the emerging tech and the creation here at DevNet Create continues. Thanks for coming out. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me here. >> More Cube coverage here coming live here at Mountain View after this short break. (pop music plays)

>> Live from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2019 brought to you by Cisco. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Mountain View, California for the theCUBE's coverage of Cisco DevNet Create. It's a small, intimate event where we're bringing the cloud native creation world with the DevNet community within Cisco and of course building applications, programming networks, that's the theme. I'm John Furrier, your host, our next guest is Darryl Sladden, senior technical product manager at Cisco, 20 year veteran, built voice over IP systems. He's a coder, he's a builder, he's a creator. Great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much, I'm glad to be here. >> And you're a fan? >> I love being on theCUBE. Because-- >> And the trivia behind that? Share the context, you had a product, you built one? >> Yes, the first product management job at Cisco was building the Cisco Unified Border Element and of course, that became the Cube, so any time you mention Cube inside of Cisco, that's going to be my product. >> The renaissance within Cisco theCUBE is back and we're embedded in there. Of course we're breaking all the borders down, getting the data. Tell us what's going on in your world? Obviously you've seen a lot of waves. I mean voice over IP that you were involved in? >> Yeah. >> That took, that old PBX telephone-- >> Right. >> Got digital, created massive innovation. That's an inflection point moment. We're seeing a few of those big waves happening now. One of them's an architectural changes around IoT, Wi-fi 6, 5G, cloud computing all coming together. This is an interesting opportunity. What's your focus? Where do you fit into all that? >> Yeah, where I fit in is this is a massive change and one of the problem sets that hasn't been solved yet is how do I understand where I am indoors? There's been great solutions that have unlocked huge amount of value with the GPS system outdoors. You always know where you are, a lot of way to find out exactly the right, it always amazes me at how accurate they are at how long it's going to take me to get to the Computer Museum. But how do I know once I've got into the museum that theCUBE is in the upstairs, in the back corner? That's where we need to solve that problem and I think we're at the crux of that. >> Waze is a great example because one of the things I'm amazed by with Waze is how fast they report the incidents that are going on. People are so actively rapid of adding, inputting the data. You got data junkies adding it and there's been some side effects. The side streets are always clogged. (laughing) >> Police always know-- >> So in physical locations where Wi-fi 6 for instance comes out? >> Yeah. >> You're going to have new capabilities in bandwidth and throughput and coverage areas, these dense areas. It's going to create a navigation opportunity for either machines to machines, machines to humans, humans to machines, humans to humans, within a physical construct. >> Yeah. >> How do you see that evolving? Use cases? What's the pattern? >> Right. What I really see evolving is taking advantage of some of the capabilities that have already existed in wi-fi, meaning ranging from individual IPs but some of the new things that are coming with Wi-fi 6 is Wi-fi 6 creates a great baseline but there are new things where, 802.11mc for example, which is an extension of Wi-fi 6, has what's called fine timing measurement. I can now, with these super accurate chip sets, know the speed of light is about one nanosecond to go about three feet. If I have an accurate clock, now I can know how far I am from the APs. >> Yeah. >> And I can solve that in indoor locations. >> So a lot of physics involved? >> A lot of rates of physics involved. >> Alright, so what products are you working on now to make all this happen. Take us through some of the things that are out there that you've got your fingers on. >> Yeah, so what I'm working on is Cisco's new location platform, it's called Cisco DNA Spaces and so what we're focusing on is digitizing that indoor space. So people spend of their economic activity are indoors. Whether it's in a hotel, where they're selling the rooms, or a restaurant where they're selling food inside the spaces, but what goes on in that physical space? People don't have that same level of knowledge that you do on the web, right? When I go to a webpage and I shop for outdoor furniture? The next two weeks I'm followed by ads about outdoor furniture. But if I go to Home Depot and I spend an hour in the outdoor furniture aisle, they don't know about that. Now, it allows you to digitize that indoor space and provide that context for other types of applications. >> So the value, I mean I'm not saying, now they're going to know you actually shopped at Home Depot, now your ad go to Home Depot. (laughing) But the value is not so much in the advertising. It's really in the efficiencies around work, play, office. These are the things that are going to be impacted because, you know, take healthcare for instance? Manufacturing? How people do work? How services are delivered? Just like in the consumer side, we all relate to the iPhone days when oh my god, I can have GPS on a phone. Now I do a mash up on a Google Map. >> Right. >> Are you saying the same thing for buildings? You're going to import like architectural drawings? How do you get all of this built out? What's the playbook? >> Yeah. The playbook really will be starting at the larger buildings that will be put into Google Maps or put into other places where it can start to get really accurate indoor locations and then never losing things, right? Be able to know where you are indoors. Being able to always find your stuff, not only where you are but maybe I put a tag on some of my assets and I always know where they are? The idea of nurses becoming more efficient because they're going to know where that wheelchair is if I need to find a wheelchair to move a patient out of an office. All of these things just become a little bit more efficient but that just builds on a huge scale when that happens at scale. >> Darryl, talk about the impact of this because you built and deployed disruptive technology in the past. For the folks watching, whether it's an enterprise architect or CIO or CEO or facilities manager, whoever, what is the impact of these new location based services to their business? How should they be thinking about it, holistically? >> Yeah. >> What's your view? >> My real view is that you want to look at it from a platform, so you're not going to have one company. Even at Cisco, we're not going to solve every application but what you do want to do is build a platform that's extensible, right? We'll take in data from multiple sources, whether it APs or video cameras, other things, create a platform that normalizes that location, and then opens that up. So that's what happened as the mainframes transitioned to client server computing. Once you start breaking things up? That's really the value and so I think the CIOS and architects out there, shouldn't be looking at point products as much as understanding that a location platform will help them unlock the value moving forward. >> Talk about the data. How is the data traversing through this? Because obviously you mentioned connecting things like cameras and other things? It could be medical equipment, it could be anything. IoT's going to be a tsunami of opportunity, applications that are going to create a lot of opportunity. How should I think about the data flow? And the role of machine learning and data in all of this? Is that going to be a key part of this? >> Absolutely, the way that we're looking at it is there's kind of two groups. There's the ones that are all in on the cloud, and we are offering this as a software as a subscription service so you buy it on a subscription basis and you let Cisco deal with the problems. Of course with a regulated environment of access to the data and backing it up and restoring it and making sure it's well curated. Or you can decide, yeah I want to run it on premises. If you want it on prem you have to understand you're going to have to deal with those same problems of back up, the data will get really large as you start to collect more and more location and how are you going to best extract value from that data? So I think you really want to look at that this is something that's going to continue to expand and do I want to make that a core competence by running it myself? Or maybe turn that over to cloud service? >> So in terms of what's real and not real or what's coming and what's real today? So you mentioned there's some location services as a SAS. Talk about what's available now from your customer standpoint. >> Yeah. >> What can they get going on and what's coming around the corner? >> Yeah, so what they can get going on today is that location services, Cisco DNA Spaces. So if you go to ciscodnaspaces.com there's free trials available, it's a great sort of application. But more importantly, it provides you that initial start, right? What's coming is more and more applications will take advantage of that, right? We got a great one for things like student success, so that you know a student is inside of a classroom and then if he doesn't come to class for a couple days in a row? Oh maybe he needs counseling? Maybe his car broke down? You can start to do these really interesting student success applications as an example of a vertical. So the vertical applications are starting to really proliferate, but what's available today is the platform. >> So you see verticals really booming on this? >> Yeah. >> They're going to take advantage of it? Alright, so just kind of zoom out and put your industry hat on, not your Cisco hat. When you look at wi-fi and 5G or other technologies that are out there, what's the big movement? What moves the ball down the field the most? Is it going to be wi-fi and 5G? Because it seems like, you know, inch by inch, unified communication seemed stalled, now it's got an uplift with cloud, with data, more great user experiences. SD-WAN's been around for a long time and getting a resurgence. I mean campus networking had been around for a long, long time. >> I know. (chuckling) >> People go to stadiums, want to do Instagram and do videos. What's the big technology lever here? What's the big tailwind for location based in-building stuff? >> What I start to see for this is improving standards and improving accuracy, right? Until you get to that point where it's reliable and replaceable and I can really depend on it? It's all a niche product. I think that's been happening for literally the last eight years in this industry. Lots of niche examples of things that have been successful but it hasn't exploded, until you build that platform where I can absolutely, with reliability say, this device is at this point at this time? >> Yeah. >> Then you can start to really expand but that's really-- >> The timing and the through put, to your point earlier? >> Yeah. >> Okay, thoughts on DevNet, just to wrap up. What's here? Going on in the show here? DevNet Create, Susie did a good job of bringing communities together. A lot of co-creation, they're creating new things. This is a new application environment, programmable. What's your thoughts on DevNet? >> Yeah, I love being around some of the smartest people in the world here. (laughing) It's great. Humbling just to be able to talk to some of these guys. But I do think that really creates the community that teaches everything from little things, like I learned a quick, great new little API trick that I hadn't learned and maybe I taught some people some of the stuff that we're doing about streaming APIs. What I really like about this is all these small little interactions build something really good. >> Yeah. And you build API into all the products that's only going to create more enablement. >> Yeah. >> More creativity. The creativity's flowing big time. >> Right. >> Darryl, thanks for coming on. >> Well thank you so much. >> Great to see you. Thanks, a CUBE fan. >> Right. (laughing) >> Author of the product called The Cube at Cisco back in the day. I'm John Furrier, back with more live coverage after this short break. (light digital music)

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome to the Cubes Live coverage here in Mountain View, California Computer History Museum for Cisco's definite create on John for your host here with Lisa Martin, she's taking a break. Is out getting stories out around for our national Paul Giblin, who's an enterprise architect at Presidio, formerly on the Q Before Cube alumni. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> That's great. CIA's. Well, thank you for >> what? I was looking for this interview because last time we chat with all my cloud hybrid cloud. Now, as an enterprise architect, you're in the middle of all the conversations around how enterprises and commercial businesses are leveraging the cloud multi cloud hybrid cloud. A lot of hype, a lot of reality. But the one thing that's clear is the cloud Cos air blowing away the financial operating performances. Amazon released their earnings today. Amazing financial performance. Amazon Web services have the profit of all of Amazon Amazing. Since they only start in two thousand six, Microsoft change their business plan from being, you know, Hon premise solution software to cloud trillion dollar market cap. It goes on and on and on. But it's a tell sign of the wave that's happening in that is computing network architectures air all transforming an application. Modernization. Tsunami is coming. Renaissance of applications are happening. >> This is a big >> part of what you do when definite creates a Cisco's version of Hey, guys, we got to create the future. Sure, this is the reality. What's your take on all this thes big waves and activity? >> Yeah, I think you know, there's certainly a ton of activity going on around multi cloud, especially with, you know, Amazon. And as your GP uh definite is really a hub for it from the perspective of Cisco. So if you look at the things that people are talking about here this year is supposed to last year, it's It's totally different. Last year, people we're talking >> about Well, how >> do I D ?'Oh, my collaboration absent anyway. And how do I modernized my data center with answerable inscription? Things like that. And this year people are talking about blockchain. They're talking about multi cloud. They're talking about machine learning. There's their spokes over there talking about graft intense airflow and things like that. So what I really like about this event is the fact that it's people who are on the bleeding edge and are thinking about the new thing today before it becomes mainstream. >> Is a great point. Suzy We was on earlier. She's ahead of definite definite create and she had a great team. But one of the things that she said to me, and unless I get your reaction to this is you know she's had research roles in HP, but labs back in the day. So >> you have those research. It's the next big wave coming here. It's really >> people in the bleeding edge who were making it real. So it's not just, you know, some way that's coming. It's actually happening so far. This event really kind of points to what's really now. Your job is you make stuff real right. So you've got a kind of thread. The line between okay, bleeding edge hyper reality and kind of wire it up for customers with Presidio. So you're under a lot of pressure. You've got to do the right thing. You got architect it out. This is kind of where the game is right now. So what's the experience that you're seeing in the real world as this stuff start to become really, as customers want to create better APS better network architectures kind of retrenching happening? What's your What's your thoughts? Whats the key highlights. >> I think people are struggling with decisions around. You know what, what cloud do I put my work loads in? Do I put them in a cloud at all? What workloads do I keep on premise when I'm making these decisions, how do I get these APS to the different places they need to live? How do I have an app that might be stretched from my own premise data center to Azure or to a ws? How do I keep that secure? How doe I network that together? How do I make sure that I'm not the next big headline in the next big reach that comes around So those air, some of the challenges that are out there and they're all things that are difficult to navigate because every organizations a little bit different in terms of the skill sets that they have. So you've got some folks who are right at home. You know, doing a twelve fact, their app on going full on cloud, native and, you know, putting stuff all out on Amazon and not think twice about it. And then you've got a lot of organizations who maybe don't have mature depth shops and have a lot of legacy infrastructure. Folks who still need to retool Enrique it to get up to speed, to bring everything together. >> So skilled gap big time. >> Oh, yeah, >> that's for you guys. Come in. I want to get caught before we came on to talk here live. We're talking off camera around the Gerson Enterprise and a commercial business and the distinction between their needs Enterprise. I was in more complex, you know, multi campus multinational, potentially to commercial businesses. I won't say small music, but people were like pretty much smaller scale. Can you just par set out and talk about what we chatted about the distance between the commercial and the teens and challenging opportunities they have? Visa VI Say it. Enterprise. >> I think it comes down to a lot of the things that we do today are designed to make things simpler. That's not always the case. Sometimes, in order to make it simple. You have to do a very hard thing under the covers to get it that way in the first place. And for a small commercial organization, that's not always the easiest thing in the world. They're typically resource constrained, and their business is not running. Their business is generating revenue through whatever it is that they do now. On enterprise is a little bit different, and enterprise has multiple different revenue streams coming in from multiple different businesses. And they're typically much more invested in a much larger IT staff and have folks who are multi discipline, you know, interface with their peers. Have enough resource is to really, truly adopt a dead mobster. >> Got network team security teams the whole nine yards, I think Chief data officer, all that stuff, commercial organizations Now again, Great opportunity for cloud on both fronts, right? You got enterprises. It kind of would have nicked mixed of public cloud for cloud native work clothes, maybe clean sheet of paper brand new use case hybrid where they won't have operating on premise and then multi cloud that might have azure for three sixty five office and then run Amazon for this or they're so multi cloud seems to be a reality. On one front, commercial organizations seemed tohave cloud on their mind. But legacy apse that they've written software for that might have been written in order, entry system or, you know, some sort of work flow that's tailored for, say, the revenue. How do you advise those two scenarios? >> Yeah, I mean, if you've got a legacy app that you need to contend with, one of the first things you need to do is understand the APP itself. We're having a conversation earlier on what we talked about wass. There's organizations out there who have these applications, and the people who wrote those applications have long ago left. So you've got some new software developers who were coming in. They don't have contextual history, and then you've got infrastructure. People who are keeping the ship afloat but don't know how it floats. They don't understand displacement. >> So you've got these new folks coming in, and then we write our own. We get new ABS higher team. What do we hire ex A. You know, exactly exactly. So you know, there's a decision that >> needs to be made to do. We continue to run this on Prem, Do we consider re platforming in trying to move it out to the cloud Tio? We start fresh and try and re factor. Do we do this in the house? Do we pull in an external third party that try and do that for us? So all the challenges >> so about the relation with Cisco also your party with them you're here a definite create your also a participant in the community. They got definite, which is their core developer. Coming a couple years old. Definite create five years old, Definite creates kind of like brings in the creator's side of it. A za practitioner. Pardon Francisco here to learn and then bring that home to apply to Presidio. How does that work? Explain the folks. How does Presidio were? Francisco. How do you take stuff from definite definite create? How do you commercialize that for your business? And what's the impact of the customer? Sure. >> So it's It's more organic than you might think. So we've got a whole contention of folks here, especially, and I'm going to give a big shout out to our women intact. You were here on DH. These folks are going in there checking out the things that they're into. Is it in? And like I said, there's a diverse group of sessions that are out there spanning machine, learning to blockchain to wish there's somebody right behind us here, I think talking about, >> uh, >> hioki >> it's not a security >> threat somewhere way, air gap, That thing. Yeah, >> So these things folks are sitting in on the sessions that are of interest to them and they're going back to Presidio. And we've got internal WebEx team spaces where all of our folks who are interested in any kind of depth sit down to collaborate. And we are also, you know, maintaining our own internal code repositories where anybody who wants to go take a look at some of the intellectual property we're developing. I can go pull that asset, communicate with the person who's working on it, manipulate it, put it back all that way, also have, you know, sponsorship from the top on down. So from Thomas all the way down it, it's We know that the next generation of engineers need to understand on some level program ability, concepts, and this is a great way to adjust that, >> and this is this is a strategic and parent management behind it. Program ability gives off for some advantages. What's your take on it? I know you. You talk about in the last Cuban. If you want to just come back to the automation opportunity because, you know, let's just face it. Command line interface is how we ran things in networks over the years. But now, with program ability, that's more higher yield activities that architects and network guys and developers can work on. Then the mundane tasks go on. Now if you can program things, certainly with WiFi six and MURAKI, it's all one network. So why not have that visibility to the data? Why not program stuff to make life easier? Your thoughts on this and how it's playing out? >> I think it's, uh, it's playing out slowly and in pockets. I think there's a lot of folks who are working on these kinds of concepts, but they tend to be isolated. So from a network engineer and I come to an event like this, I'm probably going to go back to whatever my day job is, and I might write some of my own code. But unless you have some of those facilities in place that I talked about us having in Presidio, it's difficult to share what you're doing with others on. If it's difficult to share what you're doing with others, she's kind of out on an island, right, so you might have efficiencies that you're gaining. But if you are not taking that and sharing it with other people, your company may not be arriving the full benefit. Now. I think as an individual you could do a lot of good by automating things that you do, which enables you as an individual to focus on even more. But when you look at some of the cool stuff that's out there that could be shared, like the Iraqi demo for the A R looking at access points, that's just phenomenal capability That brings great benefit to a lot of different people. >> So you guys had success with a lot of sharing the collaboration internally, absolute with with the tools you've built. What's the the verdict you guys mentioned? You have some divers, folks here, women in tech, What's the president's here for city like a definite create this year what some of the key highlights from you guys. >> So I think we've got a couple of presenters way have one new definite creator, Mabel. And so she's Ah, believe second female definite creator and the first for Presidio. Jeff and I had taken those down last year and you know, she's she's fantastic. She's running weekly courses for the women and organization to teach them on these concepts. And she's a powerhouse Amazing s o way. Like I said, we have that whole contingent of women in Tech who are here. We've got a handful of gentlemen who are here as well, including Jeff eleven sailor, who you interviewed yesterday, and Greg and use Ellie, both of whom have multiple presentation's going on all standing room only s O. We're definitely invested in different >> directions on the women Tech thing. I think that's huge. I think that's the inclusion thing, that we'd love to see it again. You know, numbers, air still with the percentages, need a lot more work. I mean, just bring in more women and breathes more action. Mohr capabilities. More results. >> Absolutely. I'm all in on women in tech. I have three daughters, so I mean, naturally invested. I'm tryingto help create the world Anyway, I can where they can grow up. And I walked right into a meeting and not have Tio contend with some of the >> democratization of technology is really what it's all about. And, you know, you're not really anything in this community. Let's getem Iraqi, huh? But your house running all your surveillance cameras >> you got in fact are a camera >> app that identifies sexual predators. So I'm gonna have those hanging over my front door now. Nobody's coming anywhere near that. >> That's better than ring. Certainly go in the shark tank pitch that maybe ***. Paul, Thanks for coming on. Great to see you again and congratulate you. Sex distinct, distinct success. Distinguished engineer Now for Ciccio Great company. Give a quick point for the coming. What's going on? Presidio? What do you guys are doing? What kind of work you doing? And how'd people contact you? >> I >> need to be a formal marketeer to do any of this stuff. So, you know >> video is >> authentic and it's real. >> We're We're a three billion dollar organization. We've got three thousand some odd individuals, over half of whom are are certified engineers way. Do everything from cloud Teo I ot to traditional infrastructure collaboration. We've got a huge security practice manage services practice. We do financing s so we really try to be a one stop shop for just about anything. I related a >> lot of creation going on the community here, and I think one of the things that's great is this all about making it really taking the way. That's everyone's riding, getting it, really making it work. Congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> Cube coverage here, here in Mountain View. I'm John Forward the Cube with Lisa Martin here covering Day two of definite create stay with more live coverage after this short break.

>> Live, from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE! Covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE, Lisa Martin with John Furrier covering day two of Cisco DevNet Create 2019, and guess who we're here with? Susie Wee SVP and CTO of Cisco DevNet. Susie thank you so much for having theCUBE here and for joining John and me today. >> Oh thank you for being here. >> So this event, there were so many bodies in here yesterday, it was pretty toasty, it's getting toasty now, this is the third DevNet Create, this community John and I have been hearing that and feeling it and seeing it, see it, learn it, code it, kind of all on your theme there the last day and a half. This is a really inspiring, really national sharing community that you guys have built here. >> It is, it's amazing, I mean just the energy here as you bring together folks. Everybody wants to learn, there's so many new technologies out there, but new technologies that can turn into business advantage, and the attendees here they all feel it, and it's a different mixture of people because there's app developers, there's infrastructure and networkers, and just bringing these folks together to see what they can achieve is amazing. So that's the energy that you can really feel here. >> And the thing that's interesting and that I'd like to perspective on where this all started from, is DevNet Create is interesting, you know Amazon's Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon Web Services, uses the term builders. So you hear builders, maker culture, create. But creation is a critical part of your ethos here, and with cloud computing, Microsoft's earnings came out they were a trillion dollar market cap now, Amazon crushes their earnings again, you're seeing what cloud is doing that's enabling these creators, a new class of developer, but it's not like a new breed, it's just a new kind of orientation. This is part of your vision to share the story. >> Well and kind of the whole thing is that, you know I'm all about innovation and creation. And I believe that people just want to create. My four year old, she just wants to create. It's just in people's blood, but to now get out there and to do it, you need a catalyst. You can't just sit in a room and then create, and sometimes it's about how you bring new fields together, how you bring new technologies together, how you bring non-technologies together, how you just bring different types of people and perspectives together, and that's really what DevNet Create is all about. So, we started DevNet five years ago, just with the idea that the network is going become programmable. The infrastructure is going to provide more resources, and it's going to be programmable and provide more power to applications, so from then to now, last summer we hit half a million developers, now we're at 590 thousand developser, and we're growing. >> Well we're lucky to be part of it and thank you for including theCUBE in DevNet Create, and bringing something to the DevNet community. It's been fun and inspirational, but to be practical in the industry, you need to have a wind at your back, you need to have a wave to ride on, and creation is also about momentum. And if you look at the marketplace today, there's some big waves happening. Cloud computing is obvious, one everyone looks at, that's already changed the nature of companies, Cisco's multi-cloud looking at a bigger vision there. But new waves are coming, I mean Wifi Six is a game changer, you've got 5G. So you talked about this in the keynote, I want you to take a minute to explain that the big waves that you outlined, because with big waves there's more fun, there's more creation. There's wealth creation, there's economic vitalizations, a new vibe. Share the waves. >> Inside of the whole thing is that we say there's the infrastructure. You get your networking, you get your compute, it evolves to cloud computing and all of that, but on top of that are these applications. And this amazing set of applications, and we know that those are creating entirely new and disruptive businesses and business models, and there's a lot of growth in all of that. Now traditionally what happens is that with every wave of infrastructure advancement, comes a new set of applications and businesses, so going back to our olden days but, there was a time where you started to get a converged IP network, or you put data and voice together on an IP network, and then came voice over IP. Then came cloud computing. And you can do internet search, and you know, we're old enough to remember before then. Then you got 3G, and instead of just having the cell phone, you could do mobile apps on cell phones, so you had mobile apps. And then with 4G, you could do mobile video, and now you just expect it. Now you could think, okay the infrastructure is done, but no there's more, so some of the things that are happening right now that's really exciting is that, is I kind of talked about it in three areas. In networking we a have a couple really big things going on, which is Wifi Six and 5G. And so there's a whole site and we'll talk more about that. In computing there's the fact that actually GPU's are everywhere, and with that you can do AIML everywhere. So AI and machine learning. And then the third one is just an advancement in architecture. We knew that we'd move to mobile, we knew that we moved to compute, but now what becomes real is the edge. Edge computing. And so when you bring these things together you have new capabilities in network with Wifi Six and 5G, you have new capabilities in computing because GPU's are everywhere so you can do AI and ML, and then you actually have a spot at the edge where you can do edge processing, and then all of a sudden there's this whole new world of applications just waiting to be built, and we want to let developers know that. Because you kind of develop and you build from what you know, like oh this is just how good I can do, but there's a whole new capability coming. >> Well first of all, let's unpack those talk chats, because one of the things that I, as an entrepreneur, you know we've always talked about this, the creativity that comes from entrepreneurial thinking, whether your a true entrepreneur starting a company, or within a company doing that inside a company, takes creative juices, you got to have that catalyst as you mentioned, but also you got to imagine new ideas, right. And so by enabling, say Wifi for instance, everyone knows what Wifi is, but when you think about the new advances of Wifi and having connectivity with wireless and wired networks, with new data access, it just opens up this creative outlet. This is going to be the tsunami or the renaissance of applications. And you've been talking about it. >> It is, it is. And so like if we kind of geek out, because I was working on HD TV before it really became HD TV and their doing things like OFDM, and you know, we're so excited, spread spectrum technologies, but right now with Wifi Six, we can really geek out again. So OFDM is moving to OFDMA, OFDM multiple access. That means like, an access point usually talks to one client at a time, but now it can split up and talk to multiple clients at a time. And with that you can actually get much higher capacity, right so you can actually really use your kind of, network more efficiently, and then you can actually now also do scheduling. And then you can actually guarantee that a client is going to be scheduled in and get transmissions. That changes what you can do with Wifi and the way you think about it. And then there's this power savings, because now we can tell a device the time to wake up, so you kind of sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep, here's your target wake up time. Sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep, here's your target wake up time, that extends battery life, so you can have sensors that'll be out there for one year, five years, ten years, doing its thing. And so that takes all those IoT applications you've always wanted to build, but makes them real. Because someone has to go up and install that sensor, and the battery life matters. >> And so the second wave is the GPU anywhere which I like, because when you think of GPUS, Nvidia, you're thinking of graphics, you're thinking of gaming, but it's actually a processor for machine learning, so what are your thoughts on this because if you put GPUs in devices everywhere, and the data that you're now accessing across the network brings more intelligence. What's the impact of this GPU anywhere? Is it just IoT, is it just applications, what's the net net? >> So kind of, the most important thing about it is that before, you kind of needed to have a PhD to do AI and machine learning, right? And we have friends who are experts at that and they're continuing to push the envelope in there. I was just back at MIT and just the advances in AL and ML is amazing. But the other thing that's happening is that this is just getting wrapped up so developers can just use it. So you can actually have a TensorFlow.js library that'll just sit on your mobile device. You can actually just using your browser, you can actually write a web app that uses that and then uses the GPU, which just means right there you can write a little web app, with like five lines of code, you can say, find all the people in this picture. Find the bottles in this picture. Right so just be like, doing that on the fly, and you don't have to have a PhD in machine learning, you can actually, developers can just use this capability. And so that's kind of what unlocks it, is just because it's accessible to everyone and now you'll get that mixed wave of innovation when people can just use it and find the right applications for it. >> So looking at these three big changes that you've talked about, network, compute, architectural, did you leverage these big waves to design this years Create? Because we're hearing all about the three technologies tracks. Tell us a little bit about that. >> It is, well so first of all we have Wifi Six here, live, and people know there's the idea of it, we've done some performance tests around it and we're like it screams. You know, it just, it really does scream, and you're used to not counting on that, right? And so it opened up peoples' eyes and they're thinking differently now about what they can do here. >> What sort of reactions of the geeks at Cisco when they look at the data of Wifi Six, what's some of the anecdotal reactions that they're saying? >> People are surprised, cause everybody's kind of cynical about it. Cause, quite honestly, even getting ready for it, it just like guys we're going to jump on Wifi Six. And they're like eh, yeah, well, whatever. And then one of my guys Oshitosha went off and did the speed test and he started working with it and he came back into my office, his eyes were popped out of his head, (gasp), that's fast. >> And you showed that yesterday, all the cameras came in like, whoa! >> Because you don't have that expectation, but once you know it, it's going to really unleash this whole new set of things. There's actually something else interesting we did with the edge processing with the GPUs which is the idea of edge computing, not a new idea, the reality of it, is still coming into play. Now what happens is Cisco just announced some new products. These industrial routers, it's an industrial gateway, it means that you can like put it up on the telephone pole, you can put it into a manufacturing plant, you know at high temperatures, and it's the gateway that will connect all of your devices and senors, and be the networking conduit to get everything back. So that's an awesome product, the mass product actually hosts applications. And what matters is the deployment of these infrastructures, right? So Cisco's partners will get out there, they're going to sell and kind of install this networking equipment in manufacturing companies, but now it can host applications so developers can actually reach it. And so now that's a place for developers, but we're doing something new here, which is that we have a prototype of taking that product, we have a prototype GPU, a Nvidia Jetson that we've put on top of it, and we're letting developers hack at it. And say, would you use this? Like, tell us some of your best ideas, try it out. Because we still need to figure out the market and what's there, and we're doing it with developers. >> And where do they go with the creativity there? Because obviously one's a gateway so they're used to gateways, and they understand edge devices. What are some of the ideas that are going to come out of hacking a GPU? Is it running data analytics on the edge? Is it hosting an application and managing edge devices themselves? What are some of the cool things? >> I mean things like video sensing. So now like at your edge you have lots of cameras and because you can do GPU processing, you can actually take these multi-camera inputs, do video sensing algorithms, you know things that you kind of dreamed about before, but now just doing that for real. You know, finding construction workers, finding the hard hats, in the images to make sure that you can actually have people be safe. One thing that we know about AI and machine learning, is like a lot of times people say, okay I'm going to hire a data scientist, a data scientist comes in, and they can't really get the data. Like they don't have anything to work on until there's a good data set to work on. Well actually as you connect up these environments, that's one data set coming in. So you connect up like transportation systems, like SCADA, like utilities protocols, you're actually talking to manufacturing equipment. >> Real time data from traffic, Teslas. >> Exactly. And so that stuff comes in, but then you need to kind of munch on that data to know, when should I be looking, how can I get it into a form that I can do some AI and machine learning on it. >> So new use cases, you expect new use cases to emerge? >> They are, and it's really cool because there was a time when there was all of this stuff you could do on the web, and in the cloud, and with our applications, but it's coming back to the physical world. >> And that's what you mean by the edge, is then this architectural thing, that's really the edge. The new architecture of having these kinds of capabilities is going to create sets of applications that we've never seen before. New startups, new applications. >> It is and really the kind of thing with DevNet Create is bringing in the community of people who do install infrastructure, knowing that this infrastructure is becoming programmable, and having that able to host the applications and the innovations that are coming from the developers, it's like, it just unlocks entirely new business models. And I think here these two communities are meeting and mixing, and I think that's the energy that we're seeing out here. Because they didn't expect to talk to each other. When we started DevNet Create, we knew that it was coming, we didn't know how the people would mix, and this has evolved to where people are mixing in entirely new ways and making connections, and someone who's written an app is like, oh, you're a partner, you can deploy this in all different countries, that's a new kind of deployment model for my app. >> We talked a little bit about that yesterday, with our guest as well as Mandy, and you've got these kind of different worlds colliding, but one of the things that John pointed out, is that this is not a marketing driven event, this is not for lead generation, this is a truly collaborative event, and you're getting clearly developers and infrastructure guys and girls from clearly, very probably, computing companies who are sharing. So I can imagine the cultural change that this can bring to, born in the cloud, traditional enterprise, maybe something that wasn't originally planned, but I can just imagine these worlds colliding and seeing how much better they can work together. >> And that is something that with DevNet, if you even go to the world of networking and IT and you know, just enterprises, there's a new model. So things become programmable, people's biggest problem is automation, doing things at scale, like how do I go ahead and deploy my networks across all these sites around the world? You can automate that. How do I take machinery and get business insights from that so I can actually use it for more, you know, you want to do that in software. And so you have to change your mindset cause then it is about collaboration, it's about sharing software and everyone knows that they can get there faster by sharing code and ending up with a code repository, we have code exchange, that we've created in DevNet, we've just opened it up last year, we now have over 400 repos, we just crossed over 400 on there. >> You guys are changing the way people are doing work within your own community, both DevNet and DevNet Create, bringing those worlds together. And it's working, it's magical so congratulations on all the success you've had. I got to ask you about your journey because we've talked years before you even joined Cisco and we've been following and talking to you since you've been here, and I was saying on our opening yesterday, Cisco as a company is like a big aircraft carrier, it's making the big move right, and you're seeing Chuck Robinson, the CEO, cloud, everything has APIs on, every portfolio project got APIs, so he's the pulling company into telemove, which is let's get cloudified, let's figure out our role in cloud computing and beyond, and you're mentioning some of those things, as you continue to show progress in the growth of DevNet and the community, it's changing Cisco. And we're seeing as we cover with theCUBE, and Chuck's called you out publicly and said Susie, great job, so this is a recognition that DevNet and the work that you and your team are doing is changing the face of Cisco internally and externally. How is that going, as the battleship starts to move, and by the way, data center is still more important than ever before with fibrated multicloud, things are lining up for Cisco, and you're a big part of it. What's going on in the company, and what's Chuck Robinson saying to you in your meetings with him, like hey, good job, or let's double down. >> Yeah, no Chuck is an amazing leader. And Chuck completely understands the vision, and that's why he's been supporting DevNet. So he's been supporting DevNet, not just because oh, he likes Susie or anything like that, it's because he understands the importance of programmability he understands what it means for starting new businesses and creating new business models. What it means for the ecosystem to grow into it, what that opportunity is. So he's always understood it, and I'm super lucky because he's been supporting these efforts. But now what's happening is of course he wants more. And I just presented to Chuck and his executive leadership team last week, about the plans that we have going forward. We've actually just kind of, what I would say is that, we've done the MVP of DevNet, so I know that you know, we've got the half a million members, actually almost 600 thousand >> Product market fit, it's all there >> We know have like, real assets, we have a real community, we have companies that are changing how they work, using our assets and really forming in this community, and now to get it to the next level, he's actually really kind of, sponsoring and working with us to develop it to the next level. And really the team is all coming together. The engineering team, the customer experience teams, sales and marketing, and then how we work externally with all of our communities. And so we're really growing into the next level. >> And you've got a great team, you know we've worked with all of you team, a lot of your team, but one of things that I like about what you've done here, is that, and you said it yesterday on stage at closing keynote, you feel like a star, you used the word MVP, minimum viable product. That's a startup word. So you have this startup culture, and you're in a big company so it's working. Is it contagious, are people, are there antibodies coming at you, are there people joining you, what's going on because how do you keep that startup vibe going. >> Yeah, I think that I'm just very fortunate because my team all has that attitude, they're very externally driven, so they're like, how do I help our developers, how do we help our community, how do bring them along, and we totally drive ourselves by that. And then we're constantly asking them how can we help you more, what do you want from us, and they say if we're doing something that's not useful to you, tell us now so we can stop, so we can build something else. And so we continue to evolve. And so we actually listen and then we really figure out how to go to that next level. Now what's really fun is that also though, we work with all of the other organizations, right, so you know I'm not going to replicate the sales force, we work with them, I'm not going to replicate the SEs that are out on the field. They're using DevNet, and they're running their own DevNet express events in their countries for their partners and customers. So we've really built out, really collaboratively and we've gotten so much support. And the first days, everyone was like, hey, guys you have a software strategy, you need to look at developers, you need APIs, and they're like nice job Susie, yes. Keep on going. >> You're bringing the Dev Ops ethos to the culture. DevNet's an API to all the other organizations. >> Well and now that we are where we are, it's just, it's the partnerships like our product teams are investing and improving their APIs. We advocate for the developers viewpoint into those, and it's a collaboration. Like so I don't make the products, our product teams make the products. I don't sell the products, our sales team sells the products. Right, so we've really brought together the forces and we're fortunate because everyone is joining in. >> Well it sounds to me like what DevNet is doing, is really driving this organic cultural evolution within Cisco. Is it, would you say, and maybe I'm making a leap here, it sounds to me, like what I've seen, and this is my first DevNet as well, is that DevNet seems to be an accelerator of Cisco's evolution. >> I would it's an accelerator, and you know, what I want to say is that we have great efforts going on across the company, and people are trying to figure it out. So I can't say I'm the one driving it, that would just be too much to say. But we are trying to accelerate each other's efforts and now that we've grown a community, we've provided a platform. Like, we do get more than a million eyeballs a month onto our site. And we use that as a channel, so we really working to accelerate and kind of catalyze each other's efforts. >> And if you step out and zoom out, you can see how it all hangs together. You've got APIs in all the products, so that's an enabler. You have developer onboarding of new kinds of customers and existing ones melting together, kind of in the same melting pot of developers, and you got the cloud wave behind you, and Ad Gen AI. And then you can see Cisco becoming multicloud, it's almost like it's feeding and turning in the right spot, where, I mean you don't have a cloud, but I mean you have connectivity, you have data, you have Dev Ops, Net Dev, so it seems like a nice positioning for the future. But you have all this other revenue and customers, so it's going to take some time. >> We have great products. Our products five years ago, we had handful of products with APIs. Now, our whole portfolio is programmable. So that's not my efforts, those are the product teams building great products, and entering this world of programmability. We're bringing in the community and giving them the tools so they can use them, right? So otherwise you can't just make a product and have it sit there, you need to help it come along. >> Okay, what was your presentation to Chuck? What's the vision? Where do you go next? You've got some great momentum, congratulations on the success, we love being a part of this, a lot of action. It's very inspiring and intoxicating at the same time, what's next, what's the vision? >> Yeah, so really if we, and I love the way that we've built up DevNet, is because we started with our developers, and the communities that needed to become developers, or power users of software. So, we've done the technical enablement, like we have documented APIs, we have learning labs, we have sandboxes so people can just code. So we've really been focusing on enabling them and providing all that technical enablement. And now what happens is people are asking us, how do I make this real, how do I spread this across my organization, how do I bring these solutions to my customers and then to the world? And in order to do that I need to change how I do manufacturing, in order to do this, I need to change how we build solutions, and so help us with that fuller solution, so we're really stepping up to go beyond the technical enablement, to just bringing it to reality, and to real solutions that are in operational environments, and so it's just really exciting to be working together on all that. And then we'll have a bunch more new stuff coming that we'll talk about at Cisco Live. >> And you have a great party at Cisco Live, you also have those social club event, you got to keep that going, right? >> Of course, we'll keep the social club going and we'll have a bunch of new things to announce at Cisco Live as well. >> It's starting in just a few weeks from now, so last question, your takeaway from this, some of the anecdotes that you've heard the last day and a half of DevNet Create 3. >> Yeah, so you know, kind of the vision that we had set forward. And it's one that we've been thinking about it, it's just that the infrastructure really enables a new set of applications and business models. And we had the idea of it, but again with these advances that we talked about, with Wifi Six and 5G, with GPUs enabling AI and machine learning, and with edge computing, is that people get it. And people know that it's not like some day you will have this, and some day you will have that, which I've been in research, I know that view. But it's actually like right here and right now. >> Making it real. >> Making it real, and it's available for people to use, like this next one to two years is going to be super exciting for the industry, cause it's not just theoretical, it's not just what it could do, but there's real goals that are right out there for people to develop exciting new things. >> I wish I was younger, I wish I was in my 20s, I mean like. >> It's okay, we take old people and young people all together, diversity, yes. >> More inclusion, young and old. It's so exciting because it's such an enablement, and knowing what's the megatrends that are the real waves, it's actually real, it's happening. >> And I actually want to, while we do talk about diversity and inclusion and enablement, what's really exciting is I just brought us that, we have some of our partners who are transforming themselves, and we actually have some women in tech initiatives that have started out. >> I love that, tell us about it. >> Okay so, Presidio, Verizon, they've invested in helping the women in their organizations, well they're helping everybody evolve to embrace programmability and automation to understand the application, you know the opportunities there. So they are fully, kind of, taking this paradigm and transforming their workforces to embrace it. But in addition we've partnered to also provide extra support, and call out for the women who are making the journey, and who have to, you know, face maybe some additional challenges, or just ensuring that they have the opportunity and they get the visibility, and they've both sponsored, so Presidio, Verizon, have both sponsored bringing some of their women to DevNet Create. >> I loved how you brought them on stage this morning, without telling them. They endeavor you, and you just had this genuinely enormous smile of pride. >> I'm so proud of them. >> And you should be. But that's amazing that Cisco and DevNet is also making that investment in women in technology. >> And we're doing it together with them and I'm just proud of what their doing, and this is the workforce. You saw the women up on stage if you guys watched the keynote, you'll see that it's out there. These are the people you want to hire, and why would you not use that workforce. >> Exactly, why would you not? >> And get them all young too, like you mentioned your daughter, when she starts putting the Meraki switch at home, you know you've made it. She's almost ready. >> Yes she's handling a computer for me already, she's like mommy you have two, how come I don't have one? >> She says mommy why are you using command line? >> That's next! Susie, you're an inspiration, an inspirational female in technology, we all often gravitate towards Sheryl Sandberg. I think we should start including Susie Wee in that. Thank you so much, >> No thank you very much. For having us at DevNet, it's been a pleasure to meet you, and have the chance to interview you, and we can't wait to see where do you go from here. >> We will continue to change the world together, thank you. >> I love it. Awesome. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live, from Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(techno music) >> Live from Mountain View California, it's the Cube covering DEVNET CREATE 2019, brought to you by CISCO. >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin with John Furrier covering, day two covering I should say, CISCO DEVNET CREATE 2019, at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California. We're please to welcome Prashanth Shenoy, the VP of Product Marketing, Enterprise Networks and DEVNET at CISCO. Prashanth it's great to have you join John and me this afternoon. >> Great to be here. >> So, this event is growing year after year. John and I have been talking about this very strong sense of collaboration and community with the attendees that are here in person. One of the big things yesterday that Susie was talking about was this, What's coming in Wi-Fi? Talk to us about this next-gen Wi-Fi and how it's going to be so impactful to everyone. >> Yeah it's, it's a phenomenal technology inflection point this year, I feel. We can't believe it, but you know, when was the first Wi-Fi that got started? >> 2001. >> Pretty close, 1999. So this is the 20th Anniversary of Wi-Fi. It's come to be life, right? so it's now in its fourteenth. >> I'm off by two years. >> Right, so yeah, I know. (laughter) But, 802.11A was the first Wi-Fi technology, and the speeds were ... promised speeds were 54-megabits, okay? Ah, but the real speeds were, like, 6-mega or something, right? And now, this is the sixth generation of Wi-Fi, so we've come a long way and we take it for granted in our daily life. >> Absolutely, we do. >> I don't think I can think a day without having Wi-Fi. >> Everyone talks about Wi-Fi. The kids, What's the Wi-Fi password? (laughter) I change it all the time, kids, this ... parents, pro tip. Change the password. >> Yes. You got to listen. They'll call you, your kids will call you back. It's an important tip. >> Full-on security, yeah. >> But distance is been an issue, distance, and >> Yeah. >> Radio Frequency has certain >> Yeah propagation technique so, >> Yeah. >> Are you close to the router? That room doesn't have, this doesn't have it. So there's always been distance. And throughput. >> latency, throughput, capacity. >> Most people say who's streaming Netflix, Wi-Fi is down, so again people know this they experience it everyday. >> Exactly. >> What's the big hubbub about Wi-Fi 6? What's different? I got a little preview from Todd so I'll let you explain it but >> Yeah. >> What is the notable bullet points of why it's different? >> Yeah. >> And, Why it's a game changer? >> So it's, as with every technology, three things that it always brings up, better experiences, better capacity, increase capacity, and better battery savings, which I think is very important for users but more importantly useful for IOT applications, which is ... I'm very very excited on what its going to unleash when it comes to IOT. It's been in the fringe side of IOT, like oil and gas mining utilities is what we think when we think of IOT. And now we're going to think IOT in corporate space like this, right? Each one these devices are IOT devices now, like your HVAC systems, your lighting system, air conditioning systems, physical surveillance cameras. Everything with the Wi-Fi is IOT. And because of this increased capacity, an increase density, high density environment where this capacity becomes really critical, imagine 20 devices simultaneously using Wi-Fi to communicate high Bandwidth intensive application. That's when Wi-Fi 6 becomes really critical and powerful and that opens up a huge - >> So more coverage area. >> Yeah. >> With the Antenna. It's MIMO Antenna. >> Yeah. >> And Bandwidth, right? >> Capacity and Bandwidth, like compare to .11A, and even .11AX, right it's up to 4X better capacity, 4X better battery savings and the promised throughput of like six gigabits, right, so, But the key part here is simultaneously talking to multiple devices at the same time. And that is very very crucial because of technologies ... I don't want to geek out here, like OFDMA and all this etc. >> Well let's all ... architectural because one thing Susie brought up was, architectural shifts are going to be the big game, One of the game changes you brought up and you know Wi-Fi ... and I have seen it grow from the beginning, I remember when they first came out was a revelation and you know the battery power was an issue but it always was viewed as a peripheral to the network. >> Yeah. >> You bolt on Wi-Fi and just basically extend your land - >> Yeah. >> To use network parlance and now you're seeing people working on making it much more Core 1 Network. >> Absolutely. And Meraki kind of shows the benefit of having wireless and wired - >> Yeah. work together as one. >> Yeah, absolutely >> This seems to be the thesis behind Wi-Fi six. One core thing. >> Yeah. >> Not a bolt-on extension. >> No, absolutely. I think there's a saying which is the reality, behind every wireless there are tons of wires, right. So, 'cause everything that's connected to the wire infrastructure, and with the Wi-Fi 6 now having increased capacity and increased density, it's causing a cascading effect into the rest of the network infrastructure so it becomes highly, highly crucial when you architect your network infrastructure not just to think about wireless but what happens to the access switch, to the core, to the distribution, to the aggregation. And that has a compounding effect, like multi gig speeds in the access to 10 gig to 40 gig in the core going all the way to 100 gig, right, so, the whole performance and reliability to have that immersive experience that Wi-Fi six needs to bring in, needs to be there. >> so for developers and entrepreneurs out there who always look for the white space, CISCO is a big Multi-Billion dollar company. You guys got big market share, whenever there's big moves like this it causes a new change in the order, the pecking order - >> Yeah >> of companies, it changes the landscape. This is going to be a game changer because it's going to create the new opportunities to create new things. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What are some of the things that you see out there you could share for people watching who are you know hacking around creating things who say, I want to create something big. What's the enablement? What are some of the things that you see happening that are going to be emerging out of this? >> Yeah, a lot of Fringe technologies that are fringe right now are going to be mainstream, like imagine 2006, When iPhone came in, right so and we were just having the discussion, like, that came in at the heels of major shift in connectivity, that's when 3G came in, right, at that point and multi-megabit capacity, and you saw new applications come in. Now Uber, Lyft, all these kind of applications were possible because of the connectivity. And now, Wi-Fi 6 along with 5G will unleash the next wave of applications. So, first thing is immersive applications, things that are VR, AR, it's used for gaming right now, and kids use this, you're going to see that come in hospitals, where surgeons can do remote surgeries, they can have high-density imagery of your brain, for example, as you're operating, being sent to a remote expert and on the fly, make decisions, right? Like, that is going to be pretty normal and standard, in fact, quite a few of our customers are testing this out, right? VR learning, for students, like, if I were to go ... Like, imagine if you are at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, August 1963, right, listening to MLK "I Have A Dream" speech, and you're in the crowd, immersed in the VR, like, which student wouldn't have more recollection and really connect with that, right? >> I'm sorry, wait - >> You're going to see more and more of these, so it's a better way of learning, and really getting that learning sticking in your brain, you're going to see more of that happening. And the same goes with retail experience, you're shopping, it's going to completely change the way, because of all these immersive experiences. And then, because of the higher density, you're going to see entertainment venues like stadiums where everybody now wants to share their experience to the outside world, and livestream it, right? And I was talking to Carnival Cruise Line, who's one of our customers, and they call themselves City On The Sea, which means, a cruise ship is nothing but it has entertainment, casinos, hotels - >> Lots of food. (laughs) >> Lots of food, swimming pools Concerts happening, and when people took vacation they just wanted to disconnect from everything in the world, right? Now, it's completely reversed. They want to connect full-on, and share their experience in the land, right? And they want to stream it live, 4K. And, these cruise ships are transforming themselves to provide this always-on, fully-on immersive digital experience, and they're creating things like a mobile app to order pizza no matter where you are on the ship. Within five minutes they're going to find the exact location of where you are on the ship and deliver pizza to you, right? These kind of experiences will happen! >> And you know, the perfect storm in all this too, is that the Cloud earnings are coming out, we saw Microsoft's earnings yesterday, Amazon Web Series' earning >> Yeah. do proud of Amazon today, the Cloud stocks are up, the Clouds are growing at a massive scale, they're a power source for these application developers. >> Yeah. >> As well as the on-premise business. So you have, you now have the perfect developer environment - >> A hundred percent. >> To create these new wacky ideas that will be standard. I mean, what was once ... what we take as standard as you mentioned, was a wacky idea in 2006. >> Yeah. >> Location services, checking into a hotel with my phone and having - >> Yeah. >> Cars being delivered to me, what? Who does that? >> And this, this becomes a reality, and Cloud really increased the pace of innovation, right? Now it's kind of cheaper, you don't need to get your own server, you can kind of swipe your credit card, get a bunch of VM, start building applications, and now you have the required bandwidth capacity and density in your infrastructure, and you have the right devices right now to bring that experiences to you, right? So, now it's this trifecta of things, awesome devices, the network ready to deliver those experiences, and Cloud being able to scale out to build those experiences. >> Prashanth, I know you've got a big announcement coming up on the 29th, it's a virtual event, I think Cisco.com, they can probably find out with the URL where the event is, without revealing all the secret sauce, I know you guys had Wi-Fi 6 inside Cisco, >> Yeah. >> testing it out, I heard people in the hallway here, >> Yeah. >> Talking about it, um, and they're pretty animated in their commentary. Can you share the vibe and what's it like when the engineers look at the data, when they say, we just deployed the Wi-Fi 6, what was the reactions, um - >> Yeah. >> Were they blown away, was it mediocre, was it - >> Yeah. >> What were some of the things that they were saying, what was the feedback? >> We were piloting that, and the best way to look at it is, if you go to the wireless dev center on DevNet, you're going to see that we compared a 4K video running with Wi-Fi 6 and without Wi-Fi 6. I think the results speak for themselves. Like, the kind of experience that you're going to see, it's going to be beautiful, and when employees look at those things, and I talked about a few experiences, last week we had a thing called Cisco Beat which is internal employees that we rally around and talk about technology, but more importantly, what it means to us as human beings in a personal way, and what it means to our customers, and they were blown away with some of the applications that are going to be mainstream in all of the industries that I talked about, right? Like Healthcare, hospitality, education, entertainment venues, et cetera. >> What's the low-hanging fruit use cases? What's the things that are going to be right obvious, right out of the gate for companies to implement, in terms of deploying Wi-Fi 6 and seeing immediate benefits? >> Immediate benefits is high-density environment, period. Like student lecture halls, convention centers, areas like this, where everybody wants, like, understand what's going on, but be digitally and visually connected, right? It's not only about email checking anymore, That happens automatically. But if you're here and you want to watch Susie's keynote livestream right now, with high density, and 20 other people want to watch with you, on their devices, it's possible, without a hitch. So that seamless, always-on experience becomes a reality that people can easily test out in small environments, right? Not in their entire environment, where there are high-density of people, accessing multi-media applications or high-bandwidth applications, so I feel that's a low-hanging fruit. And then it's going to go more and more towards IOT applications where sensors are getting connected, like some of our customers are brewers, have hundreds and thousands of sensors in their farms, in brewing machines, and they want all of their data to come and look at that simultaneously for quality control, right? Beer, no matter where it's made, should taste consistent, right? So you can see that coming to life, because now all of these can be connected, and because of better density and better capacity and better battery savings for these IOT devices that Wi-Fi 6 provides, you make these applications possible. So you're going to see very vertical-specific applications coming more and more with Wi-Fi 6. >> Vertical-specific, because you mentioned a number of different customer examples, you know, ranging from retailer, to - >> Yeah. >> Carnival Cruise Line, it's now this connected city - >> Yeah. >> Are there any verticals you see where, when you're talking with customers they're not quite there yet? >> Yeah, that's an interesting thing, it's ... for a change, you always have these early adopters but there is a lot of laggers who are just watching, waiting on the sidelines saying, mm, that's not for me. With Wi-Fi 6, there's been a lot of industry excitement, I would say, like manufacturing full-on, right, just coming on board. Retail, higher education, are always in the early-adopter phase, because for them, and there has been studies shown to say this directly impacts their brand - >> Yes. >> like customer experience defines brand. >> Oh, absolutely. >> And Wi-Fi, equals customer experience these days, right? So, you're going to see all of these industries really, I think I haven't seen much in maybe financial services, if you will, I think that's the only thing that I can remember, transportation, big on, like, machine to machine communication, autonomous driving is possible now because of 5G and Wi-Fi 6, right? So, and you are seeing more and more of this industry - >> This is right in your wheelhouse, and you guys have been pushing the edge for a long time, SD Wind, campus networking This is not new to Cisco. >> Yeah. >> But now with Wi-Fi 6, it literally lights that up. >> Yeah. Yup. >> Pun intended. >> I mean, you can now enable those environments to be completely robust, fully addressable, data-driven - >> Yeah. I think data that you mentioned becomes very, very crucial in this, because, especially now when you have so many more users, so many more devices, so many more applications getting on the network, people are really trying to figure out, what do I do with this? How do I get visibility into ... am I delivering the right experience? Am I providing the right security, et cetera, right? So, data becomes extremely crucial, and you'll see emergence of ML and AI technology because it's going to be humanly impossible to look at all of the data and make sense. So you've got to do machines, do their job, figure out patterns, air on dwell time, foot traffic, predictive ways of saying things may break, the experience may change, and predicting that even before they happen, and giving the right insight to the IT in the line of business, so Wi-Fi 6 is going to open up a whole new slew of ML and AI-driven operations and management capability too, so that's pretty exciting. >> When are they going to pull up a GPU on the Wi-Fi 6 devices? >> (laughs) Oh, it's happening. >> It's ready? >> It is going to happen, because you can run Edge computing applications right on Wi-Fi 6 devices, so you're going to see all of that, so, application hosting capabilities with GPU powered applications are going to be there. >> Just a network connection, right? >> Yeah. So you are going to see that, and frankly even I don't know what some of the Edge computing applications with Wi-Fi 6 will be, but we are seeing more and more of these coming ... DevNet buying tech, yeah. >> Well we did some research, we keep on a part of our SiliconANGLES team, where we prove that it's easier and more cost-effective, rather than moving data around, you move compute to the Edge - >> Edge. >> And then you use the backhaul, 'cause it costs money to send data around the network. It's costly. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and the autonomous cars was one great example, right? Like, it's a life-and-death situation when you are letting the car drive itself, right? So, you can't send all the data to the Cloud and say, analyze it for me. There are instantaneous decisions to be made, in milli-micro- nanoseconds, that need to be done on the Edge. So I think autonomous cars are a great example of Edge computing that needs to happen right on the Edge. The learning can then start happening in the Cloud, right? As in when these things get more and more smarter, you send all this data, you correlate all the intelligence there, you send it back to the machines. So you're going to see these kind of Edge computing applications. >> So you're excited by Wi-Fi 6? >> Nah. >> (laughter) >> Wi-Fi 6, so that's an even number, is that to be odd numbers, or lucky, I mean, the naming convention? >> No! >> Is there a - >> We want to be better than 5G. (laughter) So 5G is fifth generation of cellular, >> Okay. >> Wi-Fi 6 is sixth generation of Wi-Fi, right? I mean it's - >> So you're going to trump the 5G with the 6, >> Yeah. >> Kind of get ahead of it. >> Because it is truly the sixth generation of Wi-Fi. >> Okay, that's what it is. >> If we were to go back in time we would call 802.11ac, Wi-Fi 5. Right? It's kind of not that easy to say, but yeah, so Wi-Fi 5 happened like three or four years back, and now it's Wi-Fi sixth gen, so. >> We'll have to do a deep dive in the studio sometime, >> Oh, absolutely. >> on getting into all the spectrum issues, you know, the channels - >> Yeah. >> And the antennas and chains and all that good stuff. >> Yeah. There's a lot to geek out on that. (laughs) >> Yeah, it's going to be fun. >> So you talked about, kind of before we wrap up here, you talked about, you know, everything really kind of being related to, or how this can help companies with brand, and brand is everything to any type of company - >> Yeah. >> We talk at every event we go to about how it's all about customer experience. >> Yeah. >> So my last question for you is, how is Wi-Fi 6 and some of these new technologies that clearly you're excited about, how do you think that's going to change the experience for your internal customers, and from being able to get things out faster, to your external Cisco customers? >> Yeah, when you say internal, our own employees - >> Yes. >> Our R and D? >> Yes, exactly. >> Absolutely. So I think, and one of the examples was shown right here, right, so, and I'm connecting the two answers that you had, like, there's a lot of technology details behind what we do, right, we spend tons of money doing R and D, but we wanted to expose that to our own customers, to our channel partners, and to our developers, right? So, this is something that Wi-Fi 6 brings a lot to our customers. So, all the goodness, the intelligence that we have hidden in our network, now gets exposed, through these APIs, to our developers, and to our own customers. So the internal customers of ours, which are engineers, Cisco IT, are tremendously excited to see what that unveils to us, right? And DevNet provides that platform where you can expose this through APIs, whether it's for security, whether it's for application experience, whether it's for better operations, and have new co-creation of applications that we haven't envisioned, new ways of ecosystem partners coming up and building new applications that we haven't envisioned. So, for our own R and D teams, it's pretty exciting. Because - >> Big catalyst. >> Yeah, just, exactly. You're just providing the platform, it's the catalyst for innovations, and that's what the internet was when we created that, right? We didn't know the internet of 20 years back is going to be the internet of today, and we didn't envision that, but here we are. >> Well the ETI's going to open up your market, because you're going to create an enablement to pass that forward, the opportunities to other developers to come up with the ideas. >> Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole idea, is to provide them a platform to come up with innovations and ideas, and help share these ideas to other folks, right, because when the minds meld, it gets better and better. >> Build some good apps, make ... get it distributed on Wi-Fi 6, make some money, build a business, create a great app - >> Runs on your feet. It's step by step. >> It's a big inflection point. >> That's a pretty good motto. >> It's an inflection point. >> It is. It is truly, I believe, an inflection point. Mainly because, frankly, Wi-Fi 6 and 5G coming together, truly, because me and you as a user really don't care whether I'm on Wi-Fi or cellular, and we shouldn't, right, all I expect is no matter what I do, where I go, and I use my device, I should get the same consistent seamless experience. >> It works. >> Well I don't have the unlimited plan, so I'd love to have it - >> You would with that. on the Wi-Fi. (laughter) >> So you've got this virtual event next week on the 29th - >> Yeah. >> Is that going to tee up anything, any exciting things we're going to hear at Cisco Live a few weeks later? >> Oh yeah. Big time. Big time. (laughs) >> Any teasers you can give us? >> Without getting fired? Yeah, it's going to be tough. (laughter) No, yeah, I think things that we talked today are what we're going to explain more, and we're going to give more flavor on what Cisco's actually is actually doing from our products perspective, solutions, partnership perspective, to bring it to life, right? So, that's really exciting, so I highly encourage the folks that are watching this to register for this on Cisco.com Go Wired For Wireless event, so it's fun, because we've got a lot of industry experts, customers because that's where rubber meets the road - >> Absolutely. >> And that's where the top good applications, how far along they are, what are they testing, what are they trying out, and then we can geek out on all the technology, right? But it always starts with why, and why does it matter. So ... and that's why I'm excited, yeah. >> It sounds exciting. My cheeks are hurting from smiling. Prashanth, thank you so much ... right? ... for sharing your enthusiasm, your energy and expertise, it's been fun. We look forward to, uh, the virtual event next week, and hearing more about what's going on at Cisco Live. >> Thanks Lisa, thanks John. >> Well, our pleasure. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching The Cube live from day two of our coverage, of Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi. Lisa Martin for the Cube, Live at Cisco Definite. Create twenty nineteen. This is Day two of our coverage here. We're excited to welcome Taylor Barnett, a speaker tech talk speaker for this event. Lead community engineer at Stoplight Taylor. It's great to have you on the Cube. I'm glad to be here. So first, inform us before we talk about your tech talk that you can yesterday here, adept that create tell us a little bit about Stop like, >> yeah, So stoplight is a platform. Teo, build test and design web ap eyes specifically, we focus right now on recipe eyes, but we're really encouraging design first principles when people are building out there a prize for very much preproduction And what we have found was so many guys out there are not documented. They're not tested, they're not designed well And so we wanted to build tooling the help users be able to do that. >> So that documentation we've heard yeah, yesterday and today is absolutely >> essential. Yeah, And so a lot of what we're doing is we're actually using the Open A P I specifications, which a lot of teams at Cisco are now using. And so we can auto generate documentation from that. But also, we can auto generate instant mock >> servers. >> Um, do different types of testing all from that, because it's both human and machine readable. You're taking advantage of that. >> So you gave a tech talk yesterday, so I like the title going to Infinity and beyond Documentation with open FBI. Tell us our audience, like basically kind of an overview of what you presented in the three takeaways that your audience left with. >> Yeah, so historically open a P I specification has been known to be an auto generating reference documentation. So what people are like, Yeah, I know it for documentation, but they don't know it for all the other things. So the things that helped them do design first principles, the things that helped them mock and get feedback about their AP eyes and also how to test. And so I say, the three takeaways, that's what I focus on, was, how does this design first really benefit us? And why is it worth spending that time? Because a lot of engineers. It kind of feels like a friction point. Like you're making me do something else before I can start coding on DSO helping them see those benefits and then also being ableto use the feedback through They get through mach ap eyes so that they don't have tio code all the p I and then get the feedback. They could do it before that process. So much, master. Yeah, totally. And just better testing to actually make sure that we once we designed the A that we actually implementing it to what the design says. Uh, >> so I'm not design front. You mentioned design first telling you before we met. Lied that we've heard that. Yeah, I did what I had yesterday and today. This's design first approach and it sounds like from what you're saying for developers, it's not necessarily the first thing they want to do. They want to get their hands on start coding. So yeah, tell may tell us what design first means and actually how it can really make the developers job better. >> Yeah, Yes. Oh, Design First is really just being able to take a step back before that code and like describe what the is on a lower like endpoint level for us that's doing it in a visual editor at Stoplight. We actually have a visual editor to help people do that so that it's not like writing things from scratch. So even then, that makes it faster than having to write on a blank document that nobody wants to like right in. And it might be a mess. And decisions are hard to make around that document because it's a mess and all this stuff and then being able to take that and then start doing the mocking and all the other things. So for developers, it's a lot about getting to see what those other benefits are to convince them that it's worth it. And that's going to save some time overall versus like having toe wait. One great example of that is actually with being ableto Ma K P IIs friend and engineers could go ahead and start implementing the guy before the development process of actually implement thing is even done so that traditional, like waterfall development process. You just cut that out because they can start doing in a parallel on DH so it can really make teams a lot more efficient. >> Did you Were you happy with the reaction yesterday? This is a This is the definite communities. God. Five hundred eighty five thousand plus people. There's been about four hundred here in person. What was the reaction? Especially from developers who may have been around a while and are very used to the waterfall upload where they like. Taylor. This is amazing. Or girl, this is like a whole cultural change. Yeah, you know, I mean, we we work well, >> actually, a lot of enterprise companies that stoplight. And it is it is a little bit of a cultural change. You talk, there's this whole bigger idea of, like, a P I transformation. Even just moving to having a pee ice first is a bigger change. And then, you know, then the design part. But I have found that once, if you're introducing somebody to a prize first, it's easy to sneak in design. So then you don't have to Then teach Oh, let's design the first and do decide. It's all part of the same package s o. A lot of enterprises what They're like transformations to moving toe, like in a very FBI focused infrastructures. They then are just more receptacle to design >> first. That's good. Especially if you're able to show them that the obvious benefits. Yeah, there getting things done faster like this is actually taking this new approach. Is that going to be better for you? And do you find that that developers are adjusting quickly to this new? Yeah. I mean, there's definitely >> pain points. The tooling is still catching up. Uh, so the industry is for recipe eyes has kind of centered around open FBI specifications. But there were others before that Ramel for a specifically and I'd use it for anybody. Also open a p. I used to be called swagger specification. Some people might know it by that, but a lot of it is like, Yeah, the tooling is still maturing, but it's in a lot better place than it used to be. So when I was a back end FBI engineer about four five years ago, I was introduced through a P I blueprint, which is another justification, and it was very painful tohave to document in a p I with it. And now it's just gotten so much better with the tooling mature >> you can see massive differences alone just by asking. >> Totally. Yeah, just like the last four years, actually. >> So this is your first definite create and your speaker at your very first one. That's pretty cool, Taylor. Yeah? Yeah. How long have you been involved in the definite community? And how is it impacted what you do for stuff like, >> Yeah. So I was kind of introduced through it. I knew people that worked on definite and like Mandy. And And so then I kind of got introduced that that, you know, it's been really interesting to see how they built up this community of people sharing code. And it's different then, like, get hub type community. And so it's kind of interesting. It was just like it's ah, you know, you don't see a lot of communities that are run by companies that necessarily >> there they're >> not in the code repository business, but they see the value in people sharing things and collaborating and stuff like that. And so it's kind of different of a community, but also very interesting tow. Have watching grab >> the sharing in the collaboration you walk in yesterday. People are eager to do that Yeah, and other types of conferences that we covered the Cube, especially if there's cooperative Shin Partners there. It's a different vibe has been very, very much one that's been refreshing on and to your point. The difference between what Cisco's built here in the lost, very organically bio away in the last five years with Suzie and Mandy have done that opened nous and that excitability to share things and learn from each other, even though there's got to be developers here from competing companies. Yeah, that's a very cool spirit. Yeah, and something that I think they've done a very good job fostering that they also I kind of wonder if it's chicken and egg. How much has definite. And this, you know, over half a million strong community been sort of forcing function or an accelerator of Cisco's evolution? If you look at Cisco's been around for such a long time, not on a P I first company Yeah, big enterprise. This is a big all of their products and with GPS ***, been really >> awesome to see all the talks that are focused on Cisco's a prize being designed first like I don't see a lot of enterprises that feel like they've really taken it toe heart as much. I've talked to some people and they say, Yeah, I mean, you know, there's been some pain points, but I'm like, Yeah, but there's companies that are envious of the Y .'All done this. Yes, and they've really, like, probably improved the developer experience that they're a piece so much because of having that design first >> approach. So one other thing that I think it's very cool about definite and create is that yesterday morning it was kicked off by two really strong technologists. You don't mention we had Mandy really on yesterday is a senior director of developer experience. Right after you. I've got Susie Leon, the SPP in CTO, and I go to a lot of events. The Cube covers a lot of events every year, and it's very important to us to be able to highlight women and technology because it's still an unresolved, you know, gap there. But it's also really unusual to see an event kicked off both days. No females. You've been a stem since you were a kid. How does that impact you? Do you see that is inspiring. You that is. I wish it wasn't an issue. >> Yeah, no. Yeah. I wish it was an issue, but no, but it's really awesome. So, like, when I was trying to decide if I accept my when they asked me to come speak, I totally looked at that. That was something when I saw their faces on them that they were going to be key notes and stuff, you know, it gave me already, like, a whole different feeling of how the conference >> was going to be >> so it was really exciting to see that. Yeah, >> that's good. And when I first got into tech a long time ago, I was just not aware of what was not monitor in a technical role. But I didn't notice. I mean, they noticed the difference and the disparity, but I didn't feel it. Yeah, And so it wasn't until I started going to more and more events where I sell >> theirs. So, yeah, sometimes you're at events where it's just the sea of people that don't look like you. And it's a lot different here. >> Yeah, until I imagine I appreciated it this morning. I'm sure. Well, when Susie called onto stage the young girls from Verizon and those from Presidio that are Cisco's clearly making a concerted effort to recognize and help this diversity in thought. I mean, imagine designing AP eyes with, you know, many different perspective is better products and services and company, and will be we just have more thought divers in and of itself. >> Oh, yeah, I think about it a lot with developer experience. So one of the things is there's this idea of beginner's mind failure that sometimes if if you think you're a p, I is like, great. But you don't approach it with the beginner's mind, you might actually be failing a lot of your users. So, you know, your, uh, your veteran developer, you're, you know, super skilled and you you don't fail in the somewhere areas that someone who's newer to development might fail. And so then you just lost a bunch of customers and right up front without even them getting deeper into the FBI. And so being ableto have, like more diverse perspectives around, designing a prize could definitely help prevent that. That's a >> really important point so that you make there because it's like if this is really everything that's designed these days. Whatever it is a on iPad. But sticker a piece of clothing. It's all designed for a consumer. Yeah, to consume whatever the product of services. And, you know, in technology, so much conversation goes around delivering an outstanding customer experience. And you're saying, you know, we have to think about that. Probably worked design, thinking, coming play right about designing with that sort of a day bers perspective of approach. That paper you gonna lose customers here were >> actually gets to the bottom line. Yeah, versus just being like a nice benefit kinds. >> Yeah, well, Taylor has been so fun having you on the Cube. Thank you so much. Now you have a flight to catch back in Austin. So thank you so much for doing this afternoon and rats on being a speaker at first. And it will seem Thanks for having me. My pleasure. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching to keep live from Cisco. Definite. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching

>> live from Mountain View, California. It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi. Welcome to the Qi of Lisa Martin. John Barrier. Day two of our coverage on the Cube. Cisco Definite create twenty nineteen. Very excited to welcome to the Cube, one of this year's definite creator awards way. Have Andhra Alert Digital automation practice manager from Dimension Data under It's wonderful to have you join us. >> Hi. Thanks for having me. >> So, congratulations. This is breaking news for everybody, including you. You had just won the Definite Creator Award. Tell us about now you're feeling since you just got that news. >> Well, in the same time, I feel excited. I feel honored and I feel so humble. It's a bigger word to win. And I'm very proud that I can bring this. There's a way back home to my my company. >> Did they tell you this is only the second year that they've given out these awards? Did it tell you some of the criteria? Because obviously you were selected and were surprised. Just learned up today. Pretty cool surprise to happen. Did they give you in context about who they're looking for you, Like your activity in the definite community and things like that. It's a little bit about that >> exactly. So they're looking for the people who are having a great impact and more great advocates of definite outside of the Siskel world. So when they're going to clients and where they're going to the developer community in the different countries so they're looking for advocates, they're also looking for people who are great contributors to the network. So if you have some very nice code examples and you're posting them on the Codex and so they had a couple of pretty is that they're following. >> And how long have you been an active member of the definite community? >> I'm quite the veteran. I've been there since the very beginning of the definite. So I before even the release, I already got reviewed the information that something in this direction we'LL come. And then I was there from the very beginning, The journey continued with being there at the first definite express event being now, for example, here definite create a last year, I've organized the first different express event at the partner so together in my company with the mission. Later, we're organized the first definite expressive end in the front foot where we have invited clients but also a lot of people from our engineering teams. So quite the fantastic journeys. And now with with definite and I'm happy >> that time there since so early what's been the >> reaction so far too definite growth and change? What's the biggest surprise or notable change with definite community? >> There are a couple of things were changing. So inside the company, for example, with the adoption of definite and with people going very often on definitely have seen a different style of learning. So engineers now have a different way of how do I approach learning? Where do I go if I need to find something and another change is related to how people interact with each other? Because, yeah, you know, like the network engineer was there, he was doing very cool. His staff, maybe sometimes he was also sharing, but definite the entire opened. This is now standard, so people are sharing between them. Colleagues are also taking on in even internal social media like yammer and the posting. Hey, look, I've done this cool stuff and it's only like a lot of it. It's also thanks to definite, because it brought a little bit a new style of things. >> And they bring definite create, which is gonna cloud native kind of mindset. How has that gone over with network engineers being coding? Python machine learning, Iraqi new things are coming. >> So they're all on the transformation path, and our company's doing a lot of activities in this direction. We've had, For example, last year, our, um Wei have ah, very good advocate for coding on the mission leader. His name is Anthony Shaw. He had last year an entire initiative running learned to code on. So we had colleagues from all over the company independently of the department you work from, which started to code, right? So we had way had them learning how to code. And then this is basically the very bay a fundament on you can refuse. Start afterwards with learning pets in the definite. So it's quite a transformation. And I would say that it's a nice joining Toby. And >> how have you guys? The gentleman that you just mentioned on yourself is, as you described a veteran of the definite community. How have you guys may be influenced to mention data to really fully embrace Death Net and the path >> I think that are, too, too big ways in which this has been done. So on one hand, Anthony show with his very successful initiative, this has brought the transformation from the learning side. And on the other hand, by starting to have skills, we have brought out the news through our clients. And so this has impacted the business. And when the business is impacting and when you show a business value by using automation by using the net or program ability, then the entire company is aware. And this is how afterwards way started to okay. We really embraced >> the challenge, really sort of changing the culture of dimension data in a good way. >> Yes, I wouldn't say it's It's totally changing, but we see that way are very easily adapting to the new way. Talk about >> the automation peace. What do you do in your day to day job? Take us through a day in the life of what you're doing with the cool things you do. Struggles, challenges, opportunities. What's the fun stuff? What's the not so fun stuff that software's automating away. >> Okay, very nice. So on one hand, on the day to day basis, we analyzed with our clients what they're doing, and we are coming with suggestions where they could be faster. And also we're coming with suggestions where they could reduce errors and someone. So basically, we go. We talkto our clients. We're coming back with the problems they have with prepare for them a solution, then afterwards. The solution. It's mainly based on using AP eyes. Scrapie eyes are also amongst our favorite. Once we are presenting the solution than the clients are saying, Yes, it's something I would like to have in my network or no, it's something I don't want. Then, once the clients are happy with the solution that we're proposing them, then we start developing were developing in the Angel methodology, so very close touch with the client failed fast and improved and have a very inter way of doing things afterwards. Once the project is done, you know, we continue improving what we have with the customer with the clients and continuing are joining from there. This is part of what a day in a software engineering department looks like or like in a native ox engineering department looks on top of this. We need all the time to take care of best practices. How do we called? We need to take care of being security compliance, like working in Europe. You know, we have a lot of rules regulations that we need to respect, and we are of some of these rules and tradition. We have very proud that they are there and they're there to protect us and to protect the data which somethings belongs to us. So this is also a topic that way are working on day today. Afterwards were also working a lot and improving our skills. We're having a weekly making learn, for example, where someone is waiting to take someone else's. Presenting the technical topic. So it's it's an entire process and these are all the people that were running on the day today. >> You know, one of the big trends wass going back ten years, Dev Ups Infrastructure is code Great great great trend now Net Dev ups you mentioned that term is about Dev ops applied networking. That's a big theme of definite definite creators. Programmable networks. What does that mean to you? People say Net devil. >> It means a lot. It's very close to my heart. It's also the topic of my presentation later. Today. I have a speaker's not a tech talk in another works A lot of people might think. OK, it's just network continuous. We're writing something. One script in the network. Well, it's not just that. It's a lot of components. It's also about the culture. It's about the people. It's about the process. You're involving. It's about what tools you're using me. The entire net evolves is really close to my heart because it's an entire mindset, which is which needs >> to learn about it. What they where should they go to learn about? Net Dev ops. Sorry, Where should people go to learn about Do Net? De Bob's what it is. >> It's a very, very good entry point. It's the definite right. You have there a lot off learning labs you have the sandbox is yours. Have tracks can go from there and of course you can. You go online, you have a lot of courses. You have a lot of bloggers. You have a lot of you for answers. Were posting about what's what's going on and what you should adapt in your network. Uh, then, yes, you can also use some books. There are also some nice books there, of course, and tow the attention because by the time a book is released, maybe that information could be different. Created, you know, like it runs quite fast. Definitely, definitely. One of the sexual >> organ is your personal question. What's the coolest thing that's going on here? A definite create or within the industry that you're excited about? >> Um, machine learning and artificial intelligence is definitely something that I want Teo to keep an eye on it where I'm running a couple of small tests. It will definitely change the way we see the world. And it'LL also define what our kids will further learn because now you see, like we, we are used to a certain way of learning, which is their since maybe two hundred years, this will have, like motion learning and artificial intelligence. We have such a big impact on everything with you that it will maybe be overwhelming. So it's a very interesting point that I'm following here. The difference Creator. Very nice talks, >> and you've got to get the data to get the machine learning any data? Murat, He's got great wireless WiFi sixes here. I ot looking good. A lot of activity. >> Yes, it is indeed a lot of activity, and I'd like to believe that data is somehow. Then you go though the new petroleo s o having a handle, the data and something that valuable indeed. >> How you found if we look at you know that the participants that air here, we've got, you know, developers, infrastructure, folks who were moving towards adopting De Bob's kind of connecting them with the app developers. How have you seen people change? Job roles change as, uh, these other folks are adopting develops. Especially now that you're talking about bringing in the network. That's how Have you seen roles change and how has your job in particular changed and advance and evolved with practice of Net Dev >> ops. So I was starting the first part of your question. Rolls have indeed changed a lot. And this also I can see in the moment when we try to recruit because there is no profile out there that say okay, I want to recruit another bobs. You will not find on the market native ops of already built as a professor, you need thio recruit people when you see the potential and try to bring thiss new colleagues into the Net evolves journey. So this is one part on how Rosa revolving and then very direct to myself on my career has evolved. I think it's very linked to how the entire definite community has evolved. I've started five years ago the mission it and it was my first. A big job in Germany on my career has evolved in a very rapid way. So I went from technology associate system Engineer is an engineer leading a team off softer with leather box engineers. And now I'm since a couple of weeks speaking for the Europe region, a dimension data to advocate and to create a strategy for Ned a box a za practice. >> So what would you recommend to the younger generation gets your saying that we can't hire for someone that has no develops experience. What are some of the skills, maybe even some of the softer skills, like being a good collaborator, being a good communicator, that you would recommend that the younger generation really fine tune in addition to their technology expertise that you think this is going to make someone really gets this this role and can help really transform it. >> So I think outside of all the technical skills so they can acquire in terms of OK, programming, networking and someone, there are two big soft skills that they should have. And in my opinion, it's something very important, something I'm looking at, every person I'm interviewing, thiss to our curiosity. You need to be curious about what's out there. If you're not serious, you cannot evolve. And the second one is learning ability. Even if you don't know something, you still you say Okay, I don't know when, but I will Girl go and learn about it, you know, like wear learning every day, something like what was there five years ago and what is there to years ago? It's different to what we have now. So learn ability and curious. It's yours, too. Two main topics for me >> Fantastic. Well, under again, Congratulations on winning. The definite Freedom Warrior is here twenty nineteen. It's been a pleasure talking to you, well, producing more great things that you do in the definite community in the next year. Thank you very much. Thanks for having our pleasure for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching us live on the cubes. Saturday of coverage. Francisco Definite. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Mountain View, California. It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to You by Cisco >> Welcome back to the cave. Lisa Martin with John Fourier. Live at Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California John Mayer, please to welcome to the Cube Jeff Levin, sailor collaboration Engineer from Presidio Jeff, It's great to have you joining us today. >> Yes, great to be here. >> So lots of energy. You can hear all this noise behind us. We heard this morning in the key note that the definite community is now well over half a million strong. You mentioned before we went line. This is your second definite creates before we get into our city and Cisco. Tell me a little bit about your involvement in the definite community. >> Uh, so I got >> started just looking for support, and it's not like it's a supported product. This is a new venture for everybody. So you go out and you find these little avenues to get questions answered. And WebEx teams has a great community support and just ask a question ended up answering more questions than I was asking, and, you know, that kind of like got me started down this path of, you know, people bounce ideas off each other So really, this is Ah, homecoming. And it's just people inspiring each other If you really want to learn And deep dive Obviously I'm a self learner, so I'll just sit down and really get into it. But I come here to get inspired and the Kino just >> Will you wait? Yeah. What was the key? What was the highlight for you on the Kino? What was >> anything Ashutosh has to talk about? Ashutosh is on the I guess, the incubator side. He comes up with these things, and his job is to get people excited about the FBI's. So today he had an augmented reality app with his phone and he would go around and show network coverage of a WiFi hot spot. You can go up to an access point and troubleshoot network of problems by seeing if on access, points registered or not. So my mind, I'm thinking how many times I go in the data center and look, I have to plug in a laptop to look to see what the lands on a port. Now, Aiken take that same approach too, you know, put my phone out in a data center, and okay, this witch has ah, this V lands here. I could plug it. Antonito even need to plug my laptop. >> I mean, he first introduced the beginning of that demo at Cisco Live in Barcelona. Totally blown away. He's a demo. God first. Yeah, he's amazing. But it shows the automation right and also shows the new kind of experiences. I think to me what is inspiring to me about this community. I'd love to get your reaction. This is that It kind of shows a new way to do work. And it's all about making life easier, But it's also more capability. You can see all the configurations and then ultimately writing new apse. That seems to be the theme. Create definite curiosity with all these capabilities. Is that kind of something that you're seeing as well? What's your reaction to that? That kind of this new way of doing things. >> Wow. I mean, it's we have a code competition are Presidio called Shark Tank, and it's really just to inspire people. Uh, tell me a business use case for this Use cases really ninety percent of it. You confined help you confined mentors your work. But, uh, really Just finding a use case and stuff like this coming here just thinking about new ways to do things and do things to create >> in collaboration What? Some of the things that you see that are low hanging fruit use cases of either mundane tasks or stuff that just needs to be kind of like, abstracted away. What are some of the things >> I have a ton of those s o. Somebody came to me, a law firm that had these attorney's secretary assignments, and they wanted Secretary is to be able to schedule meetings for attorneys. You could do that in a gooey, but we're seeing more and more is away from the buoy. And it's becoming this FBI first. So anything that's not in the gooey, it's in the AP, I So that's where our values integrators has really become. This gap between the jury and the FBI. So what we did, or what I did is going active directory, have some fields filled out because they're already populated. One thing for this I read from that, and then I goto WebEx a p I and I populated, and that runs a nightly basis. >> You automate thataway. Yeah, piece of cake. But this is the trend. This is kind of what we're seeing happening with Cloud the question that comes up in the enterprises. Look, att. Hey, you know, we've been doing this thing for long times the way we do it. We, You know, ten years ago we built out this system. Don't touch it. But I love the new stuff. How do I get the new stuff in? How do I deal the old stuff, The legacy. And we got containers. Got some news stuff. A p. I's a big part of this integration fabric composing APS. I think you have to show >> that the business value it's it's saving time. It's saving people ours, and it's really checking code into get is something you wouldn't think about. Checking network config. Thing to get is something you wouldn't really think about, Uh, just a year ago. But that's really becoming the trend and having a testable code and, uh, you know, kind of Ah, if something goes wrong, I have a backup. You have somebody you know exactly who did what before it was just people hacking away. >> So let's talk about unlocking value for a second. When you were talking with John about what some of the things that blew your mind during this morning's keynote one I was hearing from you and one senses how how much easier certain functions of yourjob are going to be because of this? What value are you seeing that even just a few things that we were announced this morning is going to bring, too? Not just you and your business, but for city and Cisco's customers? >> Well, I mean So, for instance, the Iraqi thing, uh, they released bulk actions. So AP eyes. Typically, if you write the code one of the time, that's goingto limit your ability to do certain functions. Having all these AP eyes in one and point immediately, I'm thinking cloud formation templates. Name is on but ism Iraqi solution, so you could take this entire network and copy and paste. It is one slice of code. That's tremendous. >> What's the community vibe here? Definite. I mean big invention. >> It's a homecoming. I know all these people have met so many people from other areas and people competitors. We're all friends here, you know, And it's not a marketing ventured all you don't see a lot of people you know, scanning badges and bugging you on email later. This is all about just people hurting out about What they've done >> is we're getting >> the show until >> I like >> that. It's not just the hacker fond, you know, Hey, revenue event. They throw a hackathon over it and it turns out the most these events trees, a marketing event. It's completely eyes that >> unorganized as I would want it to be. There's conversations just passing by in the hallway, and I get just as much out of that as I do in a workshop. >> So you're giving a breakout session later today. Contact center. A eye for more efficient governments. >> Yes, that's a twenty minute lightning talk on just a recent project I did and taking an arm from a solution and be able to do Mohr by moving it up to the cloud. This's Amazon connect could be another one, but just basically enabling through the cloud different functionalities we're using Alexe pot, reason, elastic search, reason Landa and we're we're taking the top ten tickets this help desk would receive and trying to automate this. So I need to reset my pen. I need to transfer me to this person that was an operator before in an Excel spreadsheet. So what we did was completely not change your workflow. They're going to upload it, excels for a cheat and has three. It's going to take a Landau function to separate that spread she into a dynamo database Elastic search, going to read that database. And then Lex Boss is goingto interact with elastic search >> and his all in real time. >> It's all in real time. >> And they thought, this all natural language talking together you're working together, >> working together >> to solve those customer problems or get well that And I guess, get the customer that the ticket routed appropriately. >> Yeah, so there's take a look ups to get creation to get clothes and anything that you would typically anything that you can automate. We've done it within the ivy are and we've measured containment rates. So >> yeah, this is exactly why we've been covering. This is our third year, but here in the beginning, at the creation of the event, because what you just described is so valuable and so kind of basic. If you think about it, the number one tickets that everyone that stack ranked haven't over and over again. But breaking towns this going database for this? I got a database for this. I got a database for this. The old world. You have a waterfall process, you have a product. Project manager. People would go in a round trip meeting after meeting, arguing aboutthe ski mus and databases. And I mean, what would it be like in the old days, if you like, went through the traditional models versus his agile? Hey, let's just put it together. Hackett string up. So maybe eyes sling the FBI's rolling up, wiring up >> siding. Me, you're moving from a static ivy are too self service. And then even more what I think you forget who coined the term. But selfie service. You know more about a user you're able to predictably say, I see you have a ticket open or go a step further and say, I see have email on this phone and we're having active sync issues and only alert those people of issues and not bother everybody else. I see you work out of this office and you're calling in. Are you calling about, uh, you know, your office closure? Because we have a temporary office for you over here, So being able to get ahead of anything and predict that's the next thing >> I know. This really also highlights when we tend to talk about us when these data conferences, where the underlying value being here is the creation and stitching together with solutions. But it's the data that's driving it right. The tickets that ranking the the task getting if these reasoning aspect of reasoning with the data predictive are prescriptive, is a personalization benefit thes air. The things that are exposed on this new way of creating >> there's there's some real exciting, very consumable AP eyes out there. One of them all name is in dico io, and this is something that you could just plug in some data. Then I'll make a prediction using just a bunch of learned data set that it already has, and I'LL give you an example WebEx team space way just chat away, and for months and months, I funnel that data to a simple FBI and it comes back and tells me Who's the angriest person who's the happiest person? There's an f b I for Who's a conservative who's a liberal. There's an A p I. For the Myers Briggs test. >> I'LL get all of this. You are the girl. What's the emiko dot io? Indeed, In dico dico i n d >> i c e o dot io >> Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing that on the AP. I think I want to get your expert opinion on this because this comes up a lot recently. At these conferences, we go to where some oh new way to develop modern applications. Blah, blah, blah, waterfalls going away. Fiber Clavell. That's good stuff. Check, check, Check. At the end of the day that the key ingredient all this is AP AP Eyes are becoming the centre point for one data sharing integration coding Middle, where a new kind of middleware evolving? What's your view on this? Because this is an essential part of integration to like If someone wants to adopt a new product, I want to bring it in. It's really >> recognizing that your use case isn't everybody's used case, so you come from a static, fully functioning product to an FBI first approach, you build the FBI, then you build things around it. So when WebEx teams is released, for instance, it had certain functionality there and certain functionality wasn't there. But you could do it to the FBI. So it's partners and Cisco kind of competing at the same time to come up with a better solution. Any time you compete, you know it's good in any time something is open. It's good. So you have these Open A P I's and you have a community trying to come up with the best solution on DH. It's >> and that's really where communities of shining too right now, because you're going to community. They're great at giving feedback. If something something's not right, raise their hand. Appoint honest >> feedback, right? >> Yeah, competition. So Cisco telling Cisco something's not working. You know, you bring in some other people that maybe they're mohr AP to tell you when something's not working. They don't have any dog in the fight. You know, they'LL tell you if something's not working, they'LL give you feedback, and it really enables a better in product and a product that's more form to tailor fit for that user. That use case, >> which is exactly how it should be. Right? So last question, Jeff, before we wrap up, you already talked about how excited you were with some of the things in the Kino was day one of to >> me >> kind of expectations or hopes and dreams for what you're going to learn the rest of today and tomorrow that will help evolve the Presidio Cisco partnership. >> I mean, one thing is just making connections out here, Uh, but learning? I think so. I'm a collab guy and I'm getting to be more of a developer, and that's making me more of a generalist again. Because as a developer, yu have to interact with more than just collab FBI's. I'm getting into wireless and enterprise and everything security. So what I get out of combat is like, this is going around seeing what's happening and other technologies and other verticals and once again, competitive ideas seeing what other people are doing. Adding to that telling them what I'm doing A >> lot of collaboration pun intended. >> Yeah, You like it If you like puns. The keynote tomorrow is gonna be amazing. >> Is it way watching? Excellent. Jeff, Thanks so much for joining. Joining me on the Cube today. We appreciate your time for Joe inferior. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from Cisco Dove Net. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching.

>> live from Mountain View, California. It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome back to the cave. Lisa Martin with John Barrier on our first day of two days of coverage of Cisco Definite Create twenty nineteen at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. John Eyre. Please welcome to iniquitous and directors solutions, architecture and Devil Box from Liberty Technology. Tony, Welcome. >> How are you? >> Good, thanks for Thanks for having us tell our audience a little bit about liberty technology before we get into the community. What you doing your breakout session? >> Not a problem. The re technology is a company. Where? MSP company down in Griffin, Georgia. And so we handle a lot of a lot of clients are either public sector cities, all different types of all the different verticals. So well. And so do you have a client? A customer out there that needs needs an extra arm into it. We're there for them. >> So your basement of Georgia, Which means that how warm it is in here today Outside should be nothing for you right >> now. Tell me about >> well outside >> now, since there is no humanity I like it back home in few minutes, >> Californians were babies. >> Yeah, Joni, Public Sector. We've done a lot of interviews of public sector folks with their towns and cities, air, ground rules, municipalities, cities, their I t light. And then they don't have the Dev ops expertise, but clouds a perfect fit for them. But they have a lot of certain characters. Whether it's email is very ephemeral. People come and go, So getting people collaborating in these distinct user groups that have different roles and responsibilities is a challenge. How are you guys solving that? Because there's something I know you guys have worked on. There's a challenge that's only Republicans for enterprises do. How do you bring people that are distinct user populations that have an application or roll or use case into a collaborative, horizontally scaleable >> system? We show Be honest way. Go in there and we go in there and we discover as to what they're doing now, what are their pain points? What do they want? Change where they want to go and then we show them the collaboration started. We shone like what makes team's way? Show him all of the, uh, meetings room devices, things like that. And then not just on the collaboration side, but also if there helping with three, six, five their security than Rocky. That's how we bring. That's how we bring collaboration intothe public >> about the Cisco dynamic we've been covering definite create since it started. Definite. Now it's just go live couple years, seeing kind of a new vibe and new mojo going on with that within the Cisco ecosystem of actually coding stuff up, whether it's slinging AP eyes together or creating new ones. New capabilities. How is it changed the delivery in performance of the customers? Because this is not just your old school Cisco networking company. Yeah, they got APS. Things are connected. Date is moving from Point A to point B. All right, but he's kind of integration challenges. Kind of seamless program ability is the core theme here. What's your reaction? Thoughts on all this? >> No. >> Well, first off, this is my first definite create. I've been to other Siskel lives have not been too. Don't think great yet so so far, I'm enjoying this a lot. It's I like the tight niche, the community style of this of this event I'm sorry. Go back, >> Tio. Go live a little creations that are going on here. Very community already. Kind of be open source projects. Yeah, people talking to each other, a lot of hallway conversations. But it's a kind of a new kind of collaborative model that customers are now getting exposed to write. This is something >> new. I mean, it is. It's new, and I'm finding a lot times where a lot of customers and clients they've heard about it, but they don't know yet. So it's our job to actually get them to adopt to it and and also adapt to it as well. So it's almost like how we have our own like community here. For definite. It's almost how can we take that structure and show it to our clients >> and translation involved Kind of kind of taper down the excitement, maybe, or keeping up questions for you people watching that aren't here. A definite what's that? What's the vibe here? Like, what's some of the cools? Things you've seen and heard are something Well, the keynote was >> great either. Was amazing Kino how they actually showed how, especially with the Iraqi had when Mandy went while I was out there talking about from the small campus to the festival and to an actual >> there's a radio >> that was a great use of incredible, especially with like big Stadium and how John McDonough came out and showed about how there was a fight on the field with you. Yet no one saw it, but yet then, when they went through the actual demonstrate, the actual video were like, Oh, yeah, this's amazing how it's almost like it was like the minority report way. You're already >> exactly Dan. Yes, the data out there, >> all that data and they just machine learning A I just watching people, seeing what they're doing, kind of almost like predicting what they're going to do >> and every little bit, actually, a little bit. I agree with you. I thought they did a great job with that, Especially coming off the heels of Coachella and showing how they can enable Cisco enable developers for social folks to set up secure networks of different sizes and also be able to use in real time machine learning a eye to evaluate what's going on the offensive. And that was a very cool, real world example of what they showed. Leveraging machine learning, identifying. There's there's an issue here. There's an altercation. They surprised at a sports event, right? And deploying those. It has a lot security, many sports events, though I thought it was all that the security was just casually walking up to fight. That's another thing >> that you would slow >> down. But you don't know what >> you're right. >> And it is so many more etiquette rules now at events, whether it's, you know, hate crimes or just, you know, just violent language fights. Also, everyone sees those that write that events. But this actual now, surveillance tech out there. You know, you could tell the guys that how many beers he's had kicks in, You know, >> we're gonna have something where they can actually check out someone like Heat signature. They can't tell how >> much he's going to explode. Is the Red Sox going to blow the lead again? A. Having a good year? Well, you know, they wanted last year Yankee fans, so you would be off the charts now. Philly fans, a whole other story. I don't. Okay. My digress. You've >> got a breakout session. Sorry, John. A lightning session that's tomorrow Any time tomorrow. Tell us the title and what you're going to be talking about. >> Keisha, my title is orchestrate forty five percent. So >> we'LL just read the forty five percent correct Alright, Digging >> again tonight a little >> bit. I have a sly where we was actually Suzy. We actually did a presentation awhile back where she put up a slider, says where she talked about how fifty five percent of partners are creating APS and developing their own naps. So, way of liberty we saw that we were like, OK, what about the other forty five percent? So that's where that the idea came out too. Okay, let's I'll do a talk about how we orchestrate forty, forty five, forty five percent. So entails What I'm doing with that is that we actually have a platform called Consulate. Where there were that platform has the ability to integrate with multiple business processes. So we're connecting. We're integrating with connect allies with Iraqi doing eight about and so that I have it where that there'll be a trigger or Web hook from one my rocky cameras like emotion which will trigger which will create a ticket and connect allies so they can help out some help tasks service desk and then that which will also they get thrown into teams and click on the ticket and then also run commands and grab a snapshot from the camera. The right of the team's six teams >> fell by the Iraqi for a minute because we get a lot of hearing a lot of buzz about Muraki. It's not just wireless. It's not just what you might think it is, it seems to be connected tissue you meant. There's a great demo that added to she's showing around. They are with looking at network configuration. We're obviously to be connecting all of this together. What's your view on this? What's that? >> I for one, I love muraki. I run Rocky at home, so five the viol. Although the wireless is switching cameras and just that, it's it's one. Really. They have, like their own room platform that connects has all their devices connecting into the dashboard, and you could do so much with it that they're actually they're open up Now. The eyes, the web hooks this so much things that you can actually integrate with it. It's it's great, and it's the analytics that you get from it. >> And this is what you're talking about really about bringing these teams together through Webb Hooks for AP, eyes in through Morocco, the connected to direct and then allow the APS to be valuable, cross different groups >> very valuable, but then so that then you don't have it on. Engineer doesn't have have to touch different applications or devices. They get it all from one and from that one application, click and go to where you need to get got. >> So we're only on halfway through Day one of your first up that crate. But it sounds like you've already been exposed to so many things that I could see the wheels turning us without anticipating that you're going to be able to bring back to liberty. And that will really help drive. What you guys doing driving forward toward that customer engagement only, eh? Educate >> well, since it is, you know, it's like half day already on day one. There's still so much to see here. There's so much to see about Coyote. There's a bunch of workshops here about form Iraqi and the AP ice, which I want to join in and see what I can take out of that and bring it back. Um, you know, there's a bunch of stuff get on. So I want to gather all that and just be a sponge and then bring it back to liberty and say, Hey, this is what we can do. How can they fit into our business model? >> Awesome. Well, Tony, thank you so much for stopping by and talking with Jonah me on the program this afternoon. We appreciate it. Best of luck in your lightning session tomorrow as well. >> Thank you so much >> for John Ferrier. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching us on the Cube. Live from Cisco. Definite great. Twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching. >> No.

>> Live from Mountain View, California. It's The Cube. Covering, DevNet Create 2019. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi welcome to The Cube. Lisa Martin with John Furrier. We are live, at Cisco DevNet Create 2019 in Mountain View at Computer History Museum. John this is the third DevNet Create, but DevNet started as this ground, small sort of grass roots out of Cisco Live, about five years ago now. You and I just came from the keynote, which I think is really awesome to highlight that it was kicked off by two, strong female leaders in technology, who will be on our program this week. I'd love to get your perspectives on what you saw and heard today, knowing the history of DevNet as you do. >> Yeah you mentioned strong leaders, Susie Wee has been promoted to Senior Vice President and CTO of DevNet and DevNet Create. Two communities and that's been a really an interesting ride because she's gotten real technical jobs but adds a good business acumen and saw the wave early on. I remember I met Susie Wee at I'd say almost seven years ago, in and around Palo Alto. She always had that energy, but she's super technical, great business mind. She saw the open source wave and cloud connecting. And then when she came to Cisco with DevNet, she took that open source kind of mojo, and took the developer communities, which were very centric, Cisco, plumbing, moving packets from point a to point b, configuring large scale networks to much more of a developer focus. And she's evolved that program and started DevNet create three years ago to bring in the cloud native, used to be called the hoodie crowd, you know the people who are coding in the cloud. Cloud first, and she she wanted to cross pollinate them together with DevNet. And the result of that experiment or that that kind of mechanism and community collaboration has changed the face of CisCo. >> Absolutely. >> You can see Chuck Robbins as the Ceo and others within Cisco, seeing that they're on this new wave and it's actually paying off dividens for them, it's changed their strategy, customers like it, the community has grown, the metrics are all kind of up in to the right, on terms of adoption. So, success from that experiment, their doubling down and their bringing real technology, real workshops, a real co-creation, a real community vibe and it's working. So again don't fix what's not broken. >> In terms of their community, one of the things that Susie mentioned this morning is that the DevNet community's now over 585 000 members strong. They talk about this, yes it's a conference but it's also, it's a strong community, it's hands on learning. It's code and the theme of the event: See it. Learn it. Code it. They did a great job only in the first hour of the keynote about actually showing some great examples and also how to your point, Cisco is evolving. Digitally, IT transformation and how they are really staying quite far ahead of their competition. >> It's interesting because you know, one of the things that we've been doing in theCUBE for 10 years, we seen a lot of trends come and go. This one we like a lot. We use the term builders creators, Andy Jassy used that term builders. That's what they talk about this new era of this renaissance of value creators. They're building stuff and with now Cloud Computing and with now AI and other things coming to the table, there's an unlimited tool set out there and platforms with and computing cloud cloud computing, you can now build things faster. So conceiving it, understanding and building it is critical. Now what's interesting about DevNet Create is that they're bringing in that again, that community vibe where, it's not just a bunch of hackathons and a bunch of rah rah, use our code and get developers locked into a platform. It's authentically and genuinely ripe, meaningful to the developers because they do it in a group setting. They do it with community. So the have, they do have hackathons, they've got creation tools, they've got different stations and they roll out the toys if you will. Meraki has things going on here, there's all this new technology. So Cisco's bringing the goods to the party. It's like I always say, when someone brings beer to the party, you know and we're going to have some good times. So they're bringing the technology and the tools in to the community without kind of jamming it down their throat. That creates a good vibe. That's cross-pollinating to the core Cisco with DevNet, and every year that DevNet's section within Cisco Live becomes the number one place everyone goes to because that's where the feedback is and the company's listening. And this is part of their fly wheel. So this is a game changer for Cisco because their culture was pretty much build networks, run them, lock'em down, highly secure. Everything's good but now the world's changed. They want programmability and this again, changes the culture of Cisco. So I think it's a great move and I love this, I love the vibe here and this event's popular because, there's engineers here. So you have people who are savvy with code, savvy with community and savvy with building and creating and being creators. So design thinking to hackathons to any workshop you can imagine. >> And there's engineers here to your point of all, and Susie's point to have all levels of all ages. And I'm always curious about the engineers and the folks who've been in an institution for a very long time and are very use to working in that traditional model. How do they get access to the right education tools, to start shifting their own mindset, because really, in this day and age, they don't have a choice. Whether they want to continue working at a company like a Cisco or any other company these days that has to be a tech company. So you see all levels of coding experience here. They provide education for that. You also see all levels of of the veterans, those in their early stages of their career. Those in their mid-careers. So a lot of collaboration in this community. >> And the CEO Chuck Robbins points out and always kind of gives Susie Wee call outs, because even though developer.cisco.com is the destination that you can go to learn. Go to developer.cisco.com to get kind of the goods. That's from Cisco's perspective. But what Susie and Chuck have recognized is that, the real action is out in the organic community. So the co-creation, the learnings. This is where the canary and the coal mines are. This is where, companies are getting early feedback on products. This is where peers are starting to figure out what's right. So if companies listen to their community, not just provide the goods and have, some destination urls to go to, to get onboarded. The action is in the organic communities. That's where people are developing friendships. That's where discovery's happening. People are learning and that's where the action's at. So Cisco's actually listening. So this is an interesting change for Cisco. >> And it seems like, to your point on the listening, it's almost becoming the lifeblood of Cisco and really giving them this fuel and momentum >> Yeah >> To allow any type of industry. The SVP and CT, I think CTO of Meraki was saying, we don't build specific solutions for specific verticals. This is for all types of verticals, because every industry has to transform and become a tech company. But this community really seems like it's, I don't want to say a rebirth of Cisco but it almost feels somewhat something similar, but really that lifeblood of this transforming organization. >> Well one of the things that's not going to be on, on the financial analysis in the, when you look at the 10 k's and all the Wall Street guys are going to go sprint got the numbers and look at the, the financial analysis. Try to figure out where the stock's going to be. But if you at what's going on with Cisco. If they can continue to do what they're doing. If they convert their core developers in DevNet and allow this cross-pollination and with cloud computing. You're going to start to see product transformations happen faster. You're going to start to see business results that aren't reflected at any kind of performer or forecasted financial analysis. And this is going to put pressure on Cisco. Cisco is under a lot of pressure and this old school guard managers at Cisco, are like 'no the data center, we got to hold down' and so, if you don't, if Cisco doesn't cannabilize itself by bringing in the new, faster. That's the trick of the management. This is Chuck Robbin's hardest job as the CEO. It's to understand when to start cannabilizing pre-existing businesses like data center servers, UCS and have them change over to a scalable revenue model on the cloud side. So they're in a transition. I think they're in good shape. The wave they're on is positive, but the real upside to this is, if they can convert those network engineers into coders. They would have an army of awesome, talented people setting and building out the next generation data centers to cloud computing architecture and serp. Strategic strike if they can pull it off and they continue to do it. That's what we're going to be watching. >> Well we're about six weeks or so I think, before Cisco Live, which is down in San Diego. The Cube will be there. >> Yeah. >> What are you thinking, you gave a pretty good, kind of your perspectives and what you're thinking. What are some of things that you think we're going to hear and see and feel and learn from Cisco Live ? >> I think we'll hear some more of the same of what we're seeing and hearing when we start Cisco Live. I still think that Cisco's got some internal re-organizations to do to get on this wave. There's an article in Fortune magazine this week, talking about the rise and fall of Kleiner Perkins. And the thesis was there on the wrong way, missed two generations of investments. Cisco right now has to decide what wave they're going to be riding in to the future. That's Chuck Robbins' strategic imperative, and I think we're going to start to see more and more of the Cisco ship turning to get on the wave of cloud, cloud native, hybrid cloud and I think multi-cloud is probably the biggest opportunity that Cisco has and I think in bringing multi-cloud as a multiple network, multiple programmable network. That to me is a wave worth riding. The question is, when doe he time the revenue? When doe the whole ship just go full steam ahead? I think it's still going to be in transition, but we'll probably hear more, more DevNet. More DevNet Create, more programmable networks, more use of data. A lot of multi-cloud. >> Yeah and there's, this year there are three tech tracks. One on Enterprise Transformation which is, something that we'll talk about with our guests over the next two days. And then we've got, businesses have real-time data access. AI, machine learning, infrastructures that are programmable. Now how are, what are the tools and the trends, that enterprises are using to generate business insights that actually drive outcomes. >> Yeah so I think that all these tracks kind of point to big high level pillar trends that I think Cisco has to really nail and I think, they have clear sight for this. They just got to put the wheels on the bus and get the bus rolling. And that is three areas. Application modernization. So renaissance and application development. So you're seeing a new kind of app developer emerging. We hear about that all the time. You know these guys want infrastructure's code. Those app developers are going to be coming in to the enterprise in a large scale, and they can either be hybrid and multi-cloud orient. So application modernization. A renaissance in applications. Cisco has to be on that and they got AppDynamics for that and a variety of other cool things. Hybrid and multi-cloud, absolutely is going to be the architecture for enterprises and third area is security. Those are the things I think, if Cisco could nail those three things. They would be well positioned. And they got to bring the tech to the table and their product leadership. So that to me I think that's, I think we're going to see a lot of that at Cisco Live and that's I think the core plan. >> Well we'll be listening for that over the course of the next two days. John and I are fortunate to be here for today and tomorrow with a spectrum of guests, from Cisco folks, DevNet folks, partners, users of the technology and members of, active members of the DevNet community. So John looking forward to being here the next two days. >> It's been great. >> Sick around >> John and I are going to be right back from Cisco DevNet Create 2019 with our first guest. (soft upbeat music)

>> Live from Mountain View, California It's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage, day one at CISCO DEVNET CREATE 2019, I'm Lisa Martin with John Furrier, we are at The Computer History Museum at Mountain View. We're pleased to welcome to theCUBE Ash Seddeek, strategic business consultant and story telling coach. >> Yes. >> This is an interesting combination, story telling coach with a bunch of developers. So first of all, talk to us about what it is that you, who do you help learn how to tell stories and then what your work is with Cisco. >> Fantastic. So, primarily at Cisco, I work with a lot of leaders in a coaching environment where we are looking at what they are trying to achieve with the organization and how they can articulate that message in an energetic and inspiring way. And we find stories are the best way to engage the audience. I'm working with one leader, he keeps telling me, the last talk he gave, the one thing people remember is the story. So, everyone is sort of realizing that if I want to tell them something about how we're transitioning from one technology platform to another, if I can find a metaphor, an analogy, a story, I have much better luck connecting with them and giving them something that they can remember. >> Is this like a personal story that they need to share and kind of open up some some vulnerability? Or just some other metaphor that everybody would understand? >> Yes, we actually sometimes use one or the other. Like in one case, we're using the car racing metaphor to talk about how teams come together to create amazing results. So then in that case, it's not about just the driver of that car or the team at the pit changing the tires and how fast they do that, but how they collectively then, have that success at the end of the race. Or, maybe to your point, maybe it's a personal story that then shows them, hey, I went through a lot of challenges and I know as engineers, you're going through a lot of challenges, and I can see us getting past it. So we also try to tap into what they've been able to achieve in the past. So then he can actually call on their memory, we've been able to produce these products for Cisco. Now, the customer expectations are changing and we need to get them to the market sooner, therefore, we need to figure ways where we can build some high preforming teams and get these products to the market much sooner. >> You know Ash, since hearing about your story telling here on theCUBE, as we do a lot of story telling, is that in the tech world, designed thinking has been a big part of the discipline around building products. >> Yes. >> How has some of the things that you're bringing to this kind of design story telling, >> Yes. >> Kind of ethos and thinking, >> Yes. >> Into the story telling creation process, not just, like hey I created this thing, now let's go bolt a story onto it. Is there an integration point inside the construction of the creative process, >> Yes. >> That might feed that. Can you take us through your state of the art thinking around this? >> Absolutely. It's actually, it was very comforting to find that the very first step in designed thinking is empathize, which essentially means, you have a particular target audience that you're trying to serve with a particular solution. We actually use the word hero to think about that audience and then we basically say, if she's a mom walking into the hospital lobby with her baby, what is the experience for that mother? Can we really empathize? Can we find out what the story is? What's been happening at home? The way she's going into the hospital, now she's driving into the lobby, how is she being received in that lobby, in the service level. And then we basically describe the story again of where things are today, which we can call experience number one. And then we basically talk to them about how can we envision a beautiful, delightful, experience for that mom? That becomes experience number two, and we use these stories between one and two to really energize us, to really help people understand we need to come up with a much better solution. >> I want to get your thoughts on Steve Jobs always said story telling was critical. It was his mantra before he passed away. I had a chance to interview John Chambers at his house recently. >> Yes. >> He's got a new book coming out and he's always been about trends and being on the right wave, so between the two, you had one product leader with Steve Jobs, you have a trend seer with John Chambers. How much of the DNA of the person you are coaching, that their natural talent shapes how you engage with how they could be a better story teller? >> Yeah, what I'm finding a lot, especially also with technical leaders, a lot of the time they are very sort of reserved. They sort of walk in the building a all of a sudden have this sort of character where I am not as, you know, charging ahead as I should be and a lot of the time I basically say, hey, can we get this voice to have a little bit of character? Can we get some vocal variety in here? Can we actually tell a story? Can you actually get up, stand up, and open up and really you know, tell us something about who you are and why you want to do this project to lead this team forward. So to your point, I really help them find out that they're actually like any other average citizen, they have so much energy and power within them, they just come into the corporate office and think, oh, I need to have a corporate character, then I come back and say, you know what, I actually need you, I need John to be here, in person, with all the stories that you can tell. And I tell them, go back into your old child and let's figure out some of those stories so that when you're talking about those stories, you remember the excitement, you remember the people that were there. And then all of a sudden, there's a bit of life in them, you know, so that's sort of, what I help them discover is that actually they have these stories. And they are engaging, they are inspiring, if they actually let them come out. >> I imagine that's got to be easier with some guys and girls than others. Some of those who really, maybe don't like public speaking or having to explain something that can be quite (inaudible) to certain audiences. >> Yes. >> What are some of the things that you've learned about working with some of these technologists that have helped kind of refine your methodology for cracking that surface and unleashing this energy and this sort of, natural passion. >> Yes. >> That's hidden inside. >> Absolutely and you know what's happening here at Cisco, especially at Cisco, where you see technology being used to do a lot of communication, a lot of them are realizing, if I don't articulate my message, I'm not going to get the funding. I'm not going to get the best resources. So they realize that communication became part of how do I influence up and make sure that my stakeholders understand that we have a critical project, so there is part of it where they know that there is a lot on the line if they don't speak up. And then they come to someone like me and say, Ash, how can we do this? So we then talk through what are you trying to accomplish with this team? What's that vision and how can we build it, a case for change and that becomes the thing that energizes them first and then we energize their teams and we think about, how do you take this message to executives that can give you the funding that you're looking for. >> So you talked about, before we went live, this program at Cisco, this sort of shark tank-like program, >> Yes. >> Where you're working with very technical men and women. >> Exactly, yeah. >> Who might have a brilliant idea, but in terms of articulating that to be able to get, like you said for, get funding or sponsorship for programs, Can you give us, maybe, one of your favorite examples of a, when you started with experience one or phase one, where it took you about a half an hour to figure out, that's the goal. To getting to the ah, there's the story. >> Yes, that's a good question. >> Tell us something that really sticks with you. >> YGreat question, so the program is called Hack It IT and it's an incubator program, as I mentioned. And one example, a team in China actually, was working on the idea of how do we reduce the number of customers that could be thinking about walking away from Cisco? So the technical term for that is customer churn. So I got on the phone with them, and of course, there are some challenges when it comes to speaking English by a lot of our Chinese colleagues. But then I listened in and I paid attention and then I started asking them, what got you interested in this idea? But we started to really kind of break down the fact that they have figured out that there is a way to listen into the data within Cisco and figure out that once they actually identify certain signals, they can help the sales teams realize they need to go talk to John, because John, if he doesn't have someone talking to him very soon, he or she might actually shift and go to another company, and then I said, well, what percentage do you think that churn is right now? And we found out that maybe like about 7% and with the technology they are building, we could bring it down to three 3%. I was like ding, ding, ding, ding! Earnings per share, number of customers, dollars per quarter, it was just an amazing opportunity and once they came out and communicated clearly, it was the winning idea at the end of the day. >> So you're helping take these technical folks, start to understand the business impact, >> Absolutely, yeah. >> And communicate-- >> And how big it is. >> Right. >> And how big it is. >> That can be pretty transformative for I think anybody in any field, right? >> And I remember on the call, I said, guys did we take a look at the industry averages on the churn? You know, what's the situation at Juniper? What's the situation at HPE? How does Cisco compare? How can we make sure that Cisco is much better off? Phenomenal opportunity for Cisco to listen in and catch things before they happen. >> What would be your advice to folks watching around? How to be a better story teller? Because you can really reel people in, get their attention and then deliver the pay load, whether it's venture funding, >> Yes. >> Or getting a project funded inside a corporation. There's always people interested in how they could be better story tellers, what's your playbook? >> Absolutely. So, the reason I talk about what I do is, I help people become chief excitement officers, which means we need to find the excitement, once we find the excitement, it's like finding gold in a very, very tough mountain and once we find the gold, then we can extract it out and then we can showcase it, right? So I think a lot of the time we're having difficulty finding out where the gold is. And that's one of the things that I help them with, but if they sit with their teams and really brainstorm what opportunities do we have? What are the sizes? How can we get some of these ideas out? Then all of a sudden that idea, that gold starts to show up and they are much more equipped to talk about it. And I have on the executivegreatness.com/storytelling, there is a nice cheat sheet that people can download and use to start really crafting these stories by first using a template in the beginning and then once they do it once, twice, three times it gets easier and better and if they can build a culture around story telling, it makes life so much easier. >> So you've got the, I think you mentioned it, but I want to make sure our viewers heard it. The executive greatness institute is something that you've created. >> Yes. >> And that people could go to that and find that template that you were just mentioning. >> Exactly, so executivegreatness.com/storytelling and they can download that template, it should be a very easy fill-in process in the beginning and it's a fantastic experience to really get that visual story. >> Find that gold, make some fine jewelry make some bars. >> Yes. Its amazing, there's so much potential because-- >> So this must be for anybody, and sorry to interrupt, in any industry. >> Absolutely yes. >> Anybody who can learn to find a way to connect with whomever, whatever, but it sounds like a lot of, kind of, horizontal benefits for anybody. >> Absolutely. >> And any level of their career. >> Totally because what we're finding is the clarity of the message once people get it, then you can actually ask them to do things for you or with you, but until then, there's a huge divide. People sit in these, in all hands meetings, the executive speaks, he or she speaks, they're not really catching on, you know, it's not so clear. >> It's about connecting. >> It's about connecting and clarity is the passage and story becomes the fantastic bridge. >> Yeah. >> To really do that connection. >> And really making it about being part of the same story, >> Yes, exactly. >> That connection creates more retention, success, one proposal versus the other. >> Exactly. >> Could be a swing, the swing could be the story. >> Yes, exactly, 'cause what, when we're working with these teams, we found out that if they can't communicate it, we could be losing out on a multi billion dollar idea. >> You know one thing I want to hear your thoughts on while your here because, >> Sure. >> It's as if I feel like I'm in a counseling session 'cause all we have to try to do is figure out how to tell our story better and our customers who come on theCUBE, they have social media channels, they have more channels. >> Yes. >> The story is broken down into little highlights and small video clips, so companies are challenged, not just individuals, to have a brand. >> Exactly. >> In social media. >> Absolutely. >> How do you take the gold, that excitement, and break it up, >> Yes, into a branding story-- >> Share the story in all channels possible. >> Absolutely. >> Do you have any opinion on that, or? >> It's a lot of tough work, but to your point, we need to find what that brand story is and make sure that everybody's actually clear on it 'cause a lot of times to your point, when you bring them together, each one has a different story. >> Absolutely. >> You know, so I think part of it is to really come together and say, let's get the story, let's honor it, by then, spreading it across the organization, >> And in a consistent way. >> And then we use it on the website, we use it in our marketing and our sales conversations. And if you started with that story with customers, you have something that's a whole lot more engaging, >> Get that story out there in a digital footprint. >> Exactly, yeah, exactly. >> Awesome. >> And I wonder if even what you're talking about in terms of you're right, it's about connection, is even more important as the world gets more and more and more connective with devices, and we get so focused on talking to a device, we've got to kind of come back to your sort of, bringing people back to the basic communication. >> With the human connection, so yeah. >> Exactly, which is, thankfully still needed and to your point, I think, what you were able to show your customers is a tremendous business impact, >> Yes. >> That this connection, this basic human connection in story telling can make. >> Absolutely. And the fact that you are really talking about human beings at the end, those experiences at the very end are touching somebody and we need to get excited, we basically, one of the executives from GE basically said, we need people who can go to the future and then get so excited and then come back, kind of keep that excitement on their face and walk around the organization, keep telling them, you know, when we get to Yosemite, you're going to see these waterfalls, the fresh air is amazing, I've been there, I saw it. I can't wait to get you guys there. And that's what they do on a daily basis, they're just walking around with that bug inside of them, they can see what it's like, and they can't wait to get everybody there. >> This is also somebody that can really breed and foster cultural transformation within a GE, an organization that has been around and has so many moving parts. >> Yes. >> Cultural transformation is essential for any company to transform digitally and that's a hard thing to do. >> Yeah, exactly. >> But it sounds like if, you know, you can, I like-- >> It's a big part of it. >> I like chief excitement officer, I think my dog is my chief excitement officer. But being able to maintain that and sustain it from a cultural transformation perspective is huge. >> Absolutely, 'cause all the digital transformation efforts are about that vision of the future, whether it's healthcare, to your point, or automotive industry or any other industry. It's about what kind of experience, much better experience are we going to create? >> Ash, great talking with you, exciting topic. >> Yes. >> Thank you for giving some time to John and me today at DevNet. >> Absolutely, thank you so much. >> We appreciate it. >> Thank, John, thank you so much. For John Furrier, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live at Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (outro music)

>> Live from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE! Covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Cisco DevNet Create 2019, Lisa Martin with John Furrier, we've been here all day, talking about lots of very inspiring, educational, collaborative folks, and we're pleased to welcome to theCUBE Anne Gentle, developer experience manager for Cisco DevNet, Anne, thank you so much for joining us on theCUBE today. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> So this event, everything's like, rockstar start this morning with Susie, Mandy, and the team with the keynotes, standing room only, I know when I was walking out. >> I loved it, yes. >> Yes, there's a lot of bodies in here, it's pretty toasty. >> Yeah. >> The momentum that you guys have created, pun intended. >> Oh, yes. >> No, I can't take credit for that, is really, you can feel it, there's a tremendous amount of collaboration, this is your second create? >> Second create, yeah, so I've been with DevNet itself for about year and a half, and started at Cisco about three years ago this month, but I feel like developer experience is one of my first loves, when I really started to understand how to advocate for the developer experience. So DevNet just does a great job of not only advocating within Cisco, but outside of Cisco as well, so we make sure that their voice is heard, if there's some oddity with an API, which, you know, I'm really into API design, API style, we can kind of look at that first, and kind of look at it sideways and then talk to the teams, okay is there a better way to think about this from a developer standpoint. >> It's great, I love the API love there, it's going around a lot here. DevNet create a cloud native vibe that's kind of integrating and cross-pollinating into DevNet, Cisco proper. You're no stranger to cloud computing early days, and ecosystems that have formed naturally and grown, some morph, some go different directions, so you're involved in OpenStack, we know that, we've talked before about OpenStack, just some great successes as restarts, restarts with OpenStack ultimately settled in what it did, the CNCF, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, is kind of the cloud native OpenStack model. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You've seen the communities grow, and the market's maturing. >> Definitely, definitely. >> So what's your take on this, because it creates kind of a, the creator builder side of it, we hear builder from Amazon. >> Yeah, I feel like we're able to bring together the standards, one of the interesting things about OpenStack was okay, can we do open standards, that's an interesting idea, right? And so, I think that's partially what we're able to do here, which is share, open up about our experiences, you know, I just went to a talk recently where the SendGrid former advocate is now working more on the SDK side, and he's like, yeah the travel is brutal, and so I just kind of graduated into maintaining seven SDKs. So, that's kind of wandering from where you were originally talking, but it's like, we can share with each other not only our hardships, but also our wins as well, so. >> API marketplaces is not a new concept, Apache was acquired-- >> Yes. >> By a big company, we know that name, Google. But now it's not just application programming interface marketplaces, with containers and server space, and microservices. >> Right. >> The role of APIs growing up on a whole other level is happening. >> Exactly. >> This is where you hear Cisco, and frankly I'm blown away by this, at the Cisco Live, that all the portfolio (mumbles) has APIs. >> True, yes, exactly. >> This is just a whole changeover, so, APIs, I just feel a whole other 2.0 or 3.0 level is coming. >> Absolutely. >> What's your take on this, because-- >> So, yeah, in OpenStack we documented like, two APIs to start, and then suddenly we had 15 APIs to document, right, so, learn quick, get in there and do the work, and I think that that's what's magical about APIs, is, we're learning from our designs in the beginning, we're bringing our users along with us, and then, okay, what's next? So, James Higginbotham, I saw one of his talks today, he's really big in the API education community, and really looking towards what's next, so he's talking about different architectures, and event-driven things that are going to happen, and so even talking about, well what's after APIs, and I think that's where we're going to start to be enabled, even as end users, so, sure, I can consume APIs, I'm pretty good at that now, but what are companies building on top of it, right? So like GitHub is going even further where you can have GitHub actions, and this is what James is talking about, where it's like, well the API enabled it, but then there's these event-driven things that go past that. So I think that's what we're starting to get into, is like, APIs blew up, right? And we're beyond just the create read. >> So, user experience, developer experience, back to what you do, and what Mandy was talking about. You can always make it easier, right? And so, as tools change, there's more tools, there's more workloads, there's more tools, there's more this, more APIs, so there's more of everything coming. >> Yeah. >> It's a tsunami to the developer, what are some of the trends that you see to either abstract away complexities, and, or, standardize or reduce the toolchains? >> Love where you're going with this, so, the thing is, I really feel like in the last, even, since 2010 or so, people are starting to understand that REST APIs are really just HTTP protocol, we can all understand it, there's very simple verbs to memorize. So I'm actually starting to see that the documentation is a huge part of this, like a huge part of the developer experience, because if, for one, there are APIs that are designed enough that you can memorize the entire API, that blows me away when people have memorized an API, but at the same time, if you look at it from like, they come to your documentation every day, they're reading the exact information they can give, they're looking at your examples, of course they're going to start to just have it at their fingertips with muscle memory, so I think that's, you know, we're starting to see more with OpenAPI, which is originally called Swagger, so now the tools are Swagger, and OpenAPI is the specification, and there's just, we can get more done with our documentation if we're able to use tools like that, that start to become industry-wide, with really good tools around them, and so one of the things that I'm really excited about, what we do at DevNet, is that we can, so, we have a documentation tool system, that lets us not only publish the reference information from the OpenAPI, like very boring, JSON, blah blah blah, machines can read it, but then you can publish it in these beautiful ways that are easy to read, easy to follow, and we can also give people tutorials, code examples, like everything's integrated into the docs and the site, and we do it all from GitHub, so I don't know if you guys know that's how we do our site from the back side, it's about 1000 or 2000 GitHub repos, is how we build that documentation. >> Everything's going to GitHub, the network configurations are going to GitHub, it's programmable, it's got to be in GitHub. >> Yes, it's true, and everything's Git-based right? >> So, back to the API question, because I think I'm connecting some dots from some of the conversations we had, we heard from some of the community members, there's a lot of integration touchpoints. Oh, a call center app on their collaboration talks to another database, which talks to another database, so these disparate systems can be connected through APIs, which has been around for a while, whether it's an old school SOAP interface, to, you know, HTTP and REST APIs, to full form, cooler stuff now. But it's also more of a business model opportunity, because the point is, if your API is your connection point-- >> Yes. >> There's potential business deals that could go on, but if you don't have good documentation, it's like not having a good business model. >> Right, and the best documentation really understands a user's task, and so that's why API design is so important, because if you need to make sure that your API looks like someone's daily work, get the wording right, get the actual task right, make sure that whatever workflow you've built into your API can be shown through in any tutorial I can write, right? So yeah, it's really important. >> What's the best practice, where should I go? I want to learn about APIs, so then I'm going to have a couple beers, hockey's over, it's coming back, Sharks are going to the next round, Bruins are going to the next round, I want to dig into APIs tonight. Where do I go, what are some best practices, what should I do? >> Yeah, alright, so we have DevNet learning labs, and I'm telling you because I see the web stats, like, the most popular ones are GitHub, REST API and Python, so you're in good company. Lots of people sitting on their couches, and a lot of them are like 20 minutes at a time, and if you want to do like an entire set that we've kind of curated for you all together, you should go to developer.cisco.com/startnow, and that's basically everything from your one-on-ones, all the way up to, like, really deep dive into products, what they're meant to do, the best use cases. >> Okay, I got to ask you, and I'll put you on the spot, pick your favorite child. Gold standard, what's the best APIs that you like, do you think are the cleanest, tightest? >> Oh, best APIs I like, >> Best documented? >> So in the technical writing world, the gold standard that everyone talks about is the Stripe documentation, so that's in financial tech, and it's very clean, we actually can do something like it with a three column layout-- >> Stripe (mumbles) payment gateway-- >> Stripe is, yeah, the API, and so apparently, from a documentation standpoint, they're just, people just go gaga for their docs, and really try to emulate them, so yeah. And as far as an API I use, so I have a son with type one diabetes, I don't know if I've shared this before, but he has a continuous glucose monitor that's on his arm, and the neat thing is, we can use a REST API to get the data every five minutes on how his blood sugar is doing. So when you're monitoring this, to me that's my favorite right now, because I have it on my watch, I have it on my phone, I know he's safe at school, I know he's safe if he goes anywhere. So it's like, there's so many use cases of APIs, you know? >> He's got the policy-based program, yeah. >> He does, yes, yes. >> Based upon where's he's at, okay, drink some orange juice now, or, you know-- >> Yes, get some juice. >> Get some juice, so, really convenient real-time. >> Yes, definitely, and he, you know, he can see it at school too, and just kind of, not let his friends know too much, but kind of keep an eye on it, you know? >> Automation. >> Yeah, exactly, exactly. >> Sounds like great cloud native, cool. You have a Meraki hub in your house? >> I don't have one at home. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I need to set one up, so yeah, we're terrible net nannies and we monitor everything, so I think I need Meraki at home. (laughing) >> It's a status symbol now-- >> It is now! >> We're hearing in the community. Here in the community of DevNet, you got to have a Meraki hub in your, switch in your house. >> It's true, it's true. >> So if you look back at last year's Create versus, I know we're just through almost day one, what are some of the things that really excite you about where this community of now, what did they say this morning, 585,000 strong? Where this is going, the potential that's just waiting to be unlocked? >> So I'm super excited for our Creator awards, we actually just started that last year, and so it's really neat to see, someone who won a Creator award last year, then give a talk about the kind of things he did in the coming year. And so I think that's what's most exciting about looking a year ahead for the next Create, is like, not only what do the people on stage do, but what do the people sitting next to me in the talks do? Where are they being inspired? What kind of things are they going to invent based on seeing Susie's talk about Wi-Fi 6? I was like, someone invent the thing so that when I go to a hotel, and my kids' devices take all the Wi-Fi first, and then I don't have any, someone do that, you know what I mean, yeah? >> Parental rights. >> So like, because you're on vacation and like, everybody has two devices, well, with a family of four-- [John] - They're streaming Netflix, Amazon Prime-- >> Yeah, yeah! >> Hey, where's my video? >> Like, somebody fix this, right? >> Maybe we'll hear that next year. >> That's what I'm saying, someone invent it, please. >> And thank you so much for joining John and me on theCUBE this afternoon, and bringing your wisdom and your energy and enthusiasm, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> For John Furrier, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)