(bright upbeat music) >> Hey, good morning from Las Vegas. It's Lisa Martin and Paul Gillin here. We are on day three of AWS re:Invent. We started Monday night, we went all day yesterday, we are going all day today and all day tomorrow. The amount of content coming at you from theCUBE, great, interesting, fascinating conversations with AWS, its customers, its ecosystem partners is incredible. Paul, what's your take so far on re:Invent? We've been here two and a half days. >> Well, it's just a fire hose. Like I've said before, this morning's keynote was about was about ML, machine learning and AI, and I stopped counting at 15 new announcements during about a 90 minute keynote, it's just one thing after another. And that's the nature of re:Invent, you know? It's always a showcase for new stuff. And they talk about customers, you talk about customers, I love it when we have a chance to talk to customers on theCUBE as we are about to do. >> We are about to talk to one of the nation's leading digital banks, you know them well, Capital One. Please welcome, Lo Li, Managing Vice President of Customer Digital Experience and Payments. Thank you so much, Lo, for joining us. >> Why, thank you, I'm glad to be here. >> Talk a little bit about your role where it fits within the organization, what it encompasses? >> Sure, yeah. So, I lead the retail bank technology organization which is a form of, you know, we have teams that lead digital experiences for our consumers. We look after agent in-person experiences with their cafes in branches, our call centers and as well as of our MarTech and payments ecosystem. >> So you're new to Capital One, in the last less than a year, you know, we all know it, we love it, we know the tagline, what's in your wallet? I think we can all recite that. It's as I said in the opening, it's one of the nation's leading digital banks and technology is really core to its business strategy and delivering value to customers. What attracted you to Capital One and talk about it really as a digital bank that delivers all that value. >> Of course. Yeah, so, you know, I spent 20 years of my career in a digital space in retail, and fashion and hospitality. And that is what I love about IT and the industry that I'm in and what I do, which is bringing really great solutions and products to consumers and getting them excited about an experience and a brand. So I knew early on in my career I was attracted to really great brands and brands that wanted to innovate and disrupt the consumer space. So when Capital One gave me an opportunity, I couldn't be happier, right? This is an incredible bank, we have an incredible story, we're a young bank and yet we are very much on the leading edge of a digital bank experience. >> And you were in an interesting place because as we know retail banking is declining or at least bank branches are in decline. More and more people want to do their banking on their mobile apps or through their computers, particularly younger customers. And so you're having to manage all this, what are you doing? How are you tracking to these demographic changes accelerated by the pandemic and recreating the customer experience through multiple channels? >> Yeah, great question. We want to give our consumers an omnichannel experience irrespective of, you know, the few that still want to go into branches or perhaps they want to experience a cafe, and while there meet with one of our branch ambassadors to talk about their banking, we have consumers that want to go digital. So what we do is that we make sure that we're looking after the consumer holistically, irrespective of the channel. So whether they call into the call center because they need servicing or if they're physically present or they want to carry that on digitally, we make sure that we create super personalized custom experiences. We also work with a bunch of designers that are thinking through, you know, the life of a consumer now and their relationship to a bank. It is, to your point, it is no longer a branch, you know? That is a ubiquitous experience that we're by large knowing that we have to figure out and rethink. So, we're very lucky to have great designers that work with us and work on what is that experience that we want our consumers to have, from the pastries and the coffee, and the experience of being with an ambassador and how we can lead them through our iPads and digital experiences to continue to stay with us and for us to service them. >> You know, if we think about how much banking has changed especially in the last couple of years, when suddenly you couldn't get into a branch, even if you wanted to, it's amazing how we have this expectation that on my phone I can do any transaction I want in real time, I'm going to be able to see my balance, I can transfer money, I can make a payment. And we don't think about the technology on the back end but it's absolutely critical to powering that experience. >> Yeah. >> Talk about how you're doing that and is there customer feedback in that process? >> There is, but that's music to my ears by the way. The fact that you don't think about it tells me we're doing something really right, right? So first and foremost, we are super hypervigilant about security, that is top of mind, we are well managed. The cloud has enabled us to create these infrastructures that are highly secure, that are scalable and that allows us to really focus on innovation. So we use our mobile platform and our apps in that way, right? We know that this is a scalable, secure platform. We create really great products, we create very custom experiences for you that are relevant to you and your family and we create these digital products that are supposed to meet you where you are. >> But we certainly have, you know, this expectation that I'm going to get what I want, it's going to be relevant, it's going to be timely. If not, I'm going to pick up, not the phone, I'm going to go on social media and make a complaint. So from a brand reputation perspective, you guys, what you're doing is clearly going in the right direction. >> Yeah, yeah. Look, we take our bank voice and the voice of the customer extremely seriously. So, we have a really large infrastructure from a bank operations perspective. We have our bank voice agents that work with us that give us kind of really real-time feedback from our customers. You know, by the time you pick up the phone and call usually something has gone really wrong, right? So, we make sure that we stay lockstep with what our first level agents are hearing. Then we also look into our feedbacks, we have obviously ways to look into our mobile app. We look at all the reviews that we have and incorporate that into how we think about our product and how we invest and innovate on them. >> Before we turned on the cameras, you said an amazing thing. Capital One doesn't have any data centers anymore, doesn't have any mainframes anymore, it is fully in the cloud. Understanding that you weren't there in those old days but how does that change the way you think about new features, about technology, new technology developments for the customer when you don't have that legacy to drag along with you? >> It's incredible, right? Our cost efficiency, our production efficiency, how we think about going to the market now is really getting us to focus on the right parts of that product. We don't have to carry a lot of the technical debt, we don't carry that old infrastructure. So the way we develop, the way we design, the way we go to market is a lot faster than it ever was. >> Well, and the culture is there, the cultural mindset is there to be able to do that. I mean, if you think about who you compete with some of these institutions that have been around for a hundred years that also have to transform and digitize 'cause the customers expect it. That has to be a seamless process but their culture also has to be there because changing from being On-prem data centers to being completely in the cloud, it's a big change. >> Yeah, actually, you hit it, right? The cloud transformation is big, and hard and sticky. You got to move these workloads, you got to make 'em native, you got to deploy. But to your point, the harder part really is the culture, right? Because the cloud will then unleash productivity, it will unleash continuous improvement. It will bring product partners along the ride because they have to think differently about what they want to go to the market with, how they think about the cost of those units, how they think about cloud. So, you know, in my opinion, Capital One has done an incredible job bringing that entire, the entire organization along this cloud transformation including our culture, our processes, and our people. >> I know Capital One is proud of the work it's been doing in AI and machine learning. Can you talk about from the retail banking perspective, how is machine learning being applied to improve the customer experience? >> Yeah, well, you know, as you know, AI and machine learning is the heart of the bank, is the heart of Capital One. When we started in the early 90s, we were the only bank that was really trying to challenge how we use data to provide better products for our consumers, and that is ingrained in our DNA and everything that we do. So if you were to look at bank, we would start with, you know, from the time you are authenticating yourself, how we think about fraud and how do we capture bad actors, all the way to if you were to call into a call center, we use a lot of natural language processing models to make sure that we assess your sentiment, we give you the support that you need, and then of course, use that to learn more about how we service you. >> Interesting, I'm just wondering, do you think about Capital One as a technology company that does banking or a bank that is powered by technology? >> We are a technology company, and we happen to also have a bank. >> Lisa: I love that. What are some of the things that you've heard and seen at the show? Obviously, we're hearing numbers between 55 and 70,000 people here. It's crazy. And we're only getting a snapshot of that because here we are at Venetian Expo and the conference is going on all over the strip. But what are some of the things that you've heard from AWS that excite you about the partnership going forward? >> You know, I'll be honest, one of my happiest, proud moments, when we're talking about Lambda SnapStart yesterday, we actually, our team that is here today was part of the first beta of bringing in Lambda SnapStart. And we're super excited because it helps propel our serverless agenda. You know, we're continued to transform into the cloud. So, we have a lot of these partnership opportunities that, you know, make me super proud. >> Well follow up on serverless because to a lot of people, it's a concept that they don't really understand how to put it to practice. How is serverless a step forward? What has it enabled you to do that you couldn't otherwise do? >> Wow, a bunch. I think first and foremost, it helps us stay, you know, very well managed, security wise, right? It allows us to create automation and it takes away a lot of the heavy lifting that our engineers would have to do otherwise. And the byproduct of that is that we get to go focus on really fun, innovative ideas, and we get to go work on product development. We're taking a lot of the grit work of the management of the servers out of the engineer's hand and automating them. >> Banking, of course, one of the most regulated industries on the planet, has Cloud been able to help you in that respect? >> Yes. Yes it has. Look, we are in a regulated space which means everything we do has a ton of scrutiny, for the right reasons. So we actually built it into our design, so our design, our products, we design our platforms with security in mind, with the regulations in mind and make it where it's less of a thought, right? So, we obviously spend a lot of time from a risk posture helping our associates understand, really respecting the responsibility that we have to look after everybody's assets, right? Like it's, what a more incredible job than that? So, we spend a lot of time thinking about what is our risk posture, where is it, you know, from what you would imagine the regular scan vulnerabilities all the way to data protection. And now that we protect that data in Fly, like they're all things that is our number one job and we spend a ton of time focused on it. >> That's good, it's very complex but security is a topic we discuss regularly. We've seen the threat landscape change so dramatically in the last couple of years. Bad actors are getting far more sophisticated. They're leveraging the technology but when it comes to banking as Paul was talking about, from a regulations perspective, from an end customer perspective, we have this expectation that you're going to keep my data secure because nobody wants to be the next headline. >> Lo: Yes, that's right. That's right, and look, we are getting, we're getting smarter as well, right? So we are able to detect and monitor and go after the bad actors faster. We're doing it in a way that allows us configurability, it gives us time, it gives us speed, but at the same time we also work as a network, right? So a lot of our banks, we, you know, in some ways share a lot of this information to make sure that we're all going after a common enemy. >> Capital One recently launched a software company, Capital One Software, which is a relatively unusual move by a financial services organization. How has that affected the thinking at the company about what the company is and what other opportunities there might be outside of pure banking? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, Capital One Software is a very exciting new line of business. I think the team that is there is doing some really incredible, innovative work. But you know what's really interesting is they were talking about our new product SlingShot, it was born out of our needs, right? We knew that we needed to have better governance around our data. We created really great tools and it was very obvious that there was a commercial applicability there. And that is how we will continue to operate, right? As a bank, we're all in the cloud, we're all in in the cloud. It will give us the ability to start sharing some of these best practices. And I think the best is yet to come, I think we got some really good stuff in the pipeline. >> Lisa: Anything you can share in the-- >> No. >> Lisa: No? Tight lips. >> Tight lips. >> Excellent, well, last couple of questions. What's the main theme here? When people walk into the Venetian Expo and they see Capital One next to all these tech companies, what's the main theme that Capital One wants to get across to the greater community? >> Yeah, look, our mission is to change banking for good, it always has been our mission. We're very fortunate to be in a position to be tech innovators, and we're fortunate to disrupt, and that's what I want people to get out of it. >> Excellent, my last question for you, kind of continuing on this theme. If you had, you were going to have the opportunity to create new branding and it's going to go in the cafes and it's going to be like a little billboard inside about Capital One being a technology company that does banking. What do you think that that billboard, that sign would say? >> I think I'm going to stick with the change banking for good. I mean, that really is at the heart of our mission. >> Paul: It's a nice double message too, yeah. >> Yeah, with technology, with disruption, ultimately that's where our hearts and minds are at. >> Awesome. Lo, it's been great to have you on the program. Thank you for sharing what you're doing at Capital One, how you're working with AWS and also emerging technologies like AI and ML to really create a seamless digital customer experience. We really appreciate your time and your insights. >> Thank you. >> All right, for our guest and for Paul Gillin I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live emerging and enterprise tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to this startup showcase. It's great to be here and talk about some of the innovations we are doing at AWS, how we work with our partner community, especially our open source partners. My name is Deepak Singh. I run our compute services organization, which is a very vague way of saying that I run a number of things that are connected together through compute. Very specifically, I run a container services organization. So for those of you who are into containers, ECS, EKS, fargate, ECR, App Runner Those are all teams that are within my org. I also run the Amazon Linux and BottleRocketing. So anything AWS does with Linux, both externally and internally, as well as our high-performance computing team. And perhaps very relevant to this discussion, I run the Amazon open source program office. Serving at AWS for over 13 years, almost 14, involved with compute in various ways, including EC2. What that has done has given me a vantage point of seeing how our customers use the services that we build for them, how they leverage various partner solutions, and along the way, how AWS itself has gotten involved with opensource. And I'll try and talk to you about some of those factors and how they impact, how you consume our services. So why don't we get started? So for many of you, you know, one of the things, there's two ways to look at AWS and open-source and Amazon in general. One is the number of contributors you may have. And the number of repositories that contribute to. Those are just a couple of measures. There are people that I work with on a regular basis, who will remind you that, those are not perfect measures. Sometimes you could just contribute to one thing and have outsized impact because of the nature of that thing. But it address being what it is, increasingly we'll look at different ways in which we can help contribute and enhance open source 'cause we consume a lot of it as well. I'll talk about it very specifically from the space that I work in the container space in particular, where we've worked a lot with people in the Kubernetes community. We've worked a lot with people in the broader CNCF community, as well as, you know, small projects that our customers might have got started off with. For example, I want to like talking about is Argo CD from Intuit. We were very actively involved with helping them figure out what to do with it. And it was great to see how into it. And we worked, etc, came together to think about get-ups at the Kubernetes level. And while those are their projects, we've always been involved with them. So we try and figure out what's important to our customers, how we can help and then take because of that. Well, let's talk about a little bit more, here's some examples of the kinds of open source projects that Amazon and AWS contribute to. They arranged from the open JDK. I think we even now have our own implementation of Java, the Corretto open source project. We contribute to projects like rust, where we are very active in the rest foundation from a leadership role as well, the robot operating system, just to pick some, we collaborate with Facebook and actively involved with the pirates project. And there's many others. You can see all the logos in here where we participate either because they're important to us as AWS in the services that we run or they're important to our customers and the services that they consume or the open source projects they care about and how we get to those. How we get and make those decisions is often depends on the importance of that particular project. At that point in time, how much impact they're having to AWS customers, or sometimes very feel that us contributing to that project is super critical because it helps us build more robust services. I'll talk about it in a completely, you know, somewhat different basis. You may have heard of us talk about our new next generation of Amazon Linux 2022, which is based on fedora as its sub stream. One of the reasons we made this decision was it allows us to go and participate in the preneurial project and make sure that the upstream project is robust, stays robust. And that, that what that ends up being is that Amazon Linux 2022 will be a robust operating system with the kinds of capabilities that our customers are asking for. That's just one example of how we think about it. So for example, you know, the Python software foundation is something that we work with very closely because so many of our customers use Python. So we help run something like PyPy which is many, you know, if you're a Python developer, I happened to be a Ruby one, but lots of our customers use Python and helping the Python project be robust by making sure PyPy is available to everybody is something that we help provide credits for help support in other ways. So it's not just code. It can mean many different ways of contributing as well, but in the end code and operations is where we hang our happens. Good examples of this is projects that we will create an open source because it makes sense to make sure that we open source some of the core primitives or foundations that are part of our own services. A great example of that, whether this be things that we open source or things that we contribute to. And I'll talk about both and I'll talk about things near and dear to my heart. There's many examples I've picked the two that I like talking about. The first of these is firecracker. Many of you have heard about it, a firecracker for those of you who don't know is a very lightweight virtual machine manager, which allows you to run these micro VMs. And why was this important many years ago when we started Lambda and quite honestly, Fugate and foggy, it still runs quite a bit in that mode, we used to have to run on VMs like everything else and finding the right VM for the size of tasks that somebody asks for the size of function that somebody asks for is requires us to provision capacity ahead of time. And it also wastes a lot of capacity because Lambda function is small. You won't even if you find the smallest VM possible, those can be a little that can be challenging. And you know, there's a lot of resources that are being wasted. VM start at a particular speed because they have to do a whole bunch of things before the operating system spins up and the virtual machine spins up and we asked ourselves, can we do better? come up with something that allows us to create right size, very lightweight, very fast booting. What's your machines, micro virtual machine that we ended up calling them. That's what led to firecracker. And we open source the project. And today firecrackers use, not just by AWS Lambda or foggy, but by a number of other folks, there's companies like fly IO that are using it. We know people using firecracker to run Kubernetes on prem on bare metal as an example. So we've seen a lot of other folks embrace it and use it as the foundation for building their own serverless services, their own container services. And we think there's a lot of value and learnings that we can bring to the table because we get the experience of operating at scale, but other people can bring to the table cause they may have specific requirements that we may not find it as important from an AWS perspective. So that's firecracker an example of a project where we contribute because we feel it's fundamentally important to us as continually. We were found, you know, we've been involved with continuity from the beginning. Today, we are a whole team that does nothing else, but contribute to container D because container D underlies foggy. It underlies our Kubernetes offerings. And it's increasingly being used by customers directly by their placement. You know, where they're running container D instead of running a full on Docker or similar container engine, what it has allowed us to do is focus on what's important so that we can operate continuously at scale, keep it robust and secure, add capabilities to it that AWS customers need manifested often through foggy Kubernetes, but in the end, it's a win-win for everybody. It makes continuously better. If you want to use containers for yourself on AWS, that's a great way to you. You know, you still, you still benefit from all the work that we're doing. The decision we took was since it's so important to us and our customers, we wanted a team that lived in breathed container D and made sure a super robust and there's many, many examples like that. No, that we ended up participating in, either by taking a project that exists or open sourcing our own. Here's an example of some of the open source projects that we have done from an AWS on Amazon perspective. And there's quite a few when I was looking at this list, I was quite surprised, not quite surprised I've seen the reports before, but every time I do, I have to recount and say, that's a lot more than one would have thought, even though I'd been looking at it for such a long time, examples of this in my world alone are things like, you know, what work had to do with Amazon Linux BottleRocket, which is a container host operating system. That's been open-sourced from day one. Firecracker is something we talked about. We have a project called AWS peril cluster, which allows you to spin up high performance computing clusters on AWS using the kind of schedulers you may use to use like slum. And that's an open source project. We have plenty of source projects in the web development space, in the security space. And more recently things like the open 3d engine, which is something that we are very excited about and that'd be open sourced a few months ago. And so there's a number of these projects that cover everything from tooling to developer, application frameworks, all the way to database and analytics and machine learning. And you'll notice that in a few areas, containers, as an example, machine learning as an example, our default is to go with open source option is where we can open source. And it makes sense for us to do so where we feel the product community might benefit from it. That's our default stance. The CNCF, the cloud native computing foundation is something that we've been involved with quite a bit. You know, we contribute to Kubernetes, be contribute to Envoy. I talked about continuity a bit. We've also contributed projects like CDK 8, which marries the AWS cloud development kit with Kubernetes. It's now a sandbox project in Kubernetes, and those are some of the areas. CNCF is such a wide surface area. We don't contribute to everything, but we definitely participate actively in CNCF with projects like HCB that are critical to eat for us. We are very, very active in just how the project evolves, but also try and see which of the projects that are important to our customers who are running Kubernetes maybe by themselves or some other project on AWS. Envoy is a good example. Kubernetes itself is a good example because in the end, we want to make sure that people running Kubernetes on AWS, even if they are not using our services are successful and we can help them, or we can work on the projects that are important to them. That's kind of how we think about the world. And it's worked pretty well for us. We've done a bunch of work on the Kubernetes side to make sure that we can integrate and solve a customer problem. We've, you know, from everything from models to work that we have done with gravity on our arm processor to a virtual GPU plugin that allows you to share and media GPU resources to the elastic fabric adapter, which are the network device for high performance computing that it can use at Kubernetes on AWS, along with things that directly impact Kubernetes customers like the CDKs project. I talked about work that we do with the container networking interface to the Amazon control of a Kubernetes, which is an open source project that allows you to use other AWS services directly from Kubernetes clusters. Again, you notice success, Kubernetes, not EKS, which is a managed Kubernetes service, because if we want you to be successful with Kubernetes and AWS, whether using our managed service or running your own, or some third party service. Similarly, we worked with premetheus. We now have a managed premetheus service. And at reinvent last year, we announced the general availability of this thing called carpenter, which is a provisioning and auto-scaling engine for Kubernetes, which is also an open source project. But here's the beauty of carpenter. You don't have to be using EKS to use it. Anyone running Kubernetes on AWS can leverage it. We focus on the AWS provider, but we've built it in such a way that if you wanted to take carpenter and implemented on prem or another cloud provider, that'd be completely okay. That's how it's designed and what we anticipated people may want to do. I talked a little bit about BottleRocket it's our Linux-based open-source operating system. And the thing that we have done with BottleRocket is make sure that we focus on security and the needs of customers who want to run orchestrated container, very focused on that problem. So for example, BottleRocket only has essential software needed to run containers, se Linux. I just notice it says that's the lineups, but I'm sure that, you know, Lena Torvalds will be pretty happy. And seeing that SE linux is enabled by default, we use things like DM Verity, and it has a read only root file system, no shell, you can assess it. You can install it if you wanted to. We allowed it to create different bill types, variants as we call them, you can create a variant for a non AWS resource as well. If you have your own homegrown container orchestrator, you can create a variant for that. It's designed to be used in many different contexts and all of that is open sourced. And then we use the update framework to publish and secure repository and kind of how this transactional system way of updating the software. And it's something that we didn't invent, but we have embraced wholeheartedly. It's a bottle rockets, completely open source, you know, have partners like Aqua, where who develop security tools for containers. And for them, you know, something I bought in rocket is a natural partnership because people are running a container host operating system. You can use Aqua tooling to make sure that they have a secure Indiana environment. And we see many more examples like that. You may think so over us, it's all about AWS proprietary technology because Lambda is a proprietary service. But you know, if you look peek under the covers, that's not necessarily true. Lambda runs on top of firecracker, as we've talked about fact crackers and open-source projects. So the foundation of Lambda in many ways is open source. What it also allows people to do is because Lambda runs at such extreme scale. One of the things that firecracker is really good for is running at scale. So if you want to build your own firecracker base at scale service, you can have most of the confidence that as long as your workload fits the design parameters, a firecracker, the battle hardening the robustness is being proved out day-to-day by services at scale like Lambda and foggy. For those of you who don't know service support services, you know, in the end, our goal with serverless is to make sure that you don't think about all the infrastructure that your applications run on. We focus on business logic as much as you can. That's how we think about it. And serverless has become its own quote-unquote "Sort of environment." The number of partners and open-source frameworks and tools that are spun up around serverless. In which case mostly, I mean, Lambda, API gateway. So it says like that is pretty high. So, you know, number of open source projects like Zappa server serverless framework, there's so many that have come up that make it easier for our customers to consume AWS services like Lambda and API gateway. We've also done some of our own tooling and frameworks, a serverless application model, AWS jealous. If you're a Python developer, we have these open service runtimes for Lambda, rust dot other options. We have amount of number of tools that we opened source. So in general, you'll find that tooling that we do runtime will tend to be always be open-sourced. We will often take some of the guts of the things that we use to build our systems like firecracker and open-source them while the control plane, etc, AWS services may end up staying proprietary, which is the case in Lambda. Increasingly our customers build their applications and leverage the broader AWS partner network. The AWS partner network is a network of partnerships that we've built of trusted partners. when you go to the APN website and find a partner, they know that that partner meets a certain set of criteria that AWS has developed, and you can rely on those partners for your own business. So whether you're a little tiny business that wants some function fulfill that you don't have the resources for or large enterprise that wants all these applications that you've been using on prem for a long time, and want to keep leveraging them in the cloud, you can go to APN and find that partner and then bring their solution on as part of your cloud infrastructure and could even be a systems integrator, for example, to help you solve this specific development problem that you may have a need for. Increasingly, you know, one of the things we like to do is work with an apartment community that is full of open-source providers. So a great one, there's so many, and you have, we have a panel discussion with many other partners as well, who make it easier for you to build applications on AWS, all open source and built on open source. But I like to call it a couple of them. The first one of them is TIDELIFT. TIDELIFT, For those of you who don't know is a company that provides SAS based tools to curate track, manage open source catalogs. You know, they have a whole network of maintainers and providers. They help, if you're an independent open developer, or a smart team should probably get to know TIDELIFT. They provide you benefits and, you know, capabilities as a developer and maintainer that are pretty unique and really help. And I've seen a number of our open source community embraced TIDELIFT quite honestly, even before they were part of the APN. But as part of the partner network, they get to participate in things like ISP accelerate and they get to they're officially an advanced tier partner because they are, they migrated the SAS offering onto AWS. But in the end, if you're part of the open source supply chain, you're a maintainer, you are a developer. I would recommend working with TIDELIFT because their goal is making all of you who are developing open source solutions, especially on AWS, more successful. And that's why I enjoy this partnership with them. And I'm looking to do a lot more because I think as a company, we want to make sure that open source developers don't feel like they are not supported because all you have to do is read various forums. It's challenging often to be a maintainer, especially of a small project. So I think with helping with licensing license management, security identification remediation, helping these maintainers is a big part of what TIDELIFT to us and it was great to see them as part of a partner network. Another partner that I like to call sysdig. I actually got introduced to them many years ago when they first launched. And one of the things that happened where they were super interested in some of our serverless stuff. And we've been trying to figure out how we can work together because all of our customers are interested in the capabilities that cystic provides. And over the last few years, he found a number of areas where we can collaborate. So sysdig, I know them primarily in a security company. So people use cystic to secure the bills, detect, you know, do threat response, threat detection, completely continuously validate their posture, get this continuous analytics signal on how they're doing and monitor performance. At the end of it, it's a SAS platform. They have a very nice open source security stack. The one I'm most familiar with. And I think most of you are probably familiar with is Falco. You know, sysdig, a CNCF project has been super popular. It's just to go SSS what 3, 37, 40 million downloads by now. So that's pretty, pretty cool. And they have been a great partner because we've had to do make sure that their solution works at target, which is not a natural place for their software to run, but there was enough demand and interest from our customers that, you know, or both companies leaned in to make sure they can be successful. So last year sister got a security competency. We have a number of specific competencies that we for our partners, they have integration and security hub is great. partners are lean in the way cystic has onto making our customer successful. And working with us are the best partners that we have. And there's a number of open source companies out there built on open source where their entire portfolio is built on open source software or the active participants like we are that we love working with on a day to day basis. So, you know, I think the thing I would like to, as we wind this out in this presentation is, you know, AWS is constantly looking for partnerships because our partners enable our customers. They could be with companies like Redis with Mongo, confluent with Databricks customers. Your default reaction might be, "Hey, these are companies that maybe compete with AWS." but no, I mean, I think we are partners as well, like from somebody at the lower end of the spectrum where people run on top of the services that I own on Linux and containers are SE 2, For us, these partners are just as important customers as any AWS service or any third party, 20 external customer. And so it's not a zero sum game. We look forward to working with all these companies and open source projects from an AWS perspective, a big part of how, where my open source program spends its time is making it easy for our developers to contribute, to open source, making it easy for AWS teams to decide when to open source software or participate in open source projects. Over the last few years, we've made significant changes in how we reduce the friction. And I think you can see it in the results that I showed you earlier in this stock. And the last one is one of the most important things that I say and I'll keep saying that, that we do as AWS is carry the pager. There's a lot of open source projects out there, operationalizing them, running them at scale is not easy. It's not all for whatever reason. It may not have anything to do with the software itself. But our core competency is taking that and being really good at operating it and becoming experts at operating it. And then ideally taking that expertise and experience and operating that project, that software and contributing back upstream. Cause that makes it better for everybody. And I think you'll see us do a lot more of that going forward. We've been doing that for the last few years, you know, in the container space, we do it every day. And I'm excited about the possibilities. With that. Thank you very much. And I hope you enjoy the rest of the showcase. >> Okay. Welcome back. We have Deepak sing here. We just had the keynote closing keynote vice-president of compute services. Deepak. Great to a great keynote, great wisdom and insight from that session. A very notable highlights and cutting edge trends and product information. Thanks for sharing. >> No, anytime it's always good to be here. It's too bad that we still doing this virtually, but always good to talk to you, John. >> We'll get hopefully through this way pretty quickly, I want to jump right in. Cause we don't have a lot of time. I want to get some quick question. You've brought up a good things. Open source innovation. Okay. Going next level. You've seen the rise of super clouds and super apps developing at open source. You're seeing big companies contributing, you know, you mentioned Argo into it. You're seeing that dynamic where companies are forming around this. This is a rising tide. This is, this is actually real. It's not the old school of, okay, here's a project. And then someone manages support and commercialization of it. It's actually platform in cloud scale. This is next gen. >> Yeah. And actually I think it started a few years ago. We can talk about a company that, you know, you're very familiar with as part of this event, which is armory many years ago, Netflix spun off this project called Spinnaker. A Spinnaker is CISED you know, CSED system that was developed at Netflix for their own purposes, but they chose to open solicit. And since then, it's become very popular with customers who want to use it even on prem. And you have a company that spun up on it. I think what's making this world very unique is you have very large companies like Facebook that will build things for themselves like VITAS or Netflix with Spinnaker and open source them. And you can have a lot of discussion about why they chose to do so, etc. But increasingly that's becoming the default when Amazon or Netflix or Facebook or Mehta, I guess you call them these days, build something for themselves for their own needs. The first question we ask ourselves is, should it be opensource? And increasingly we are all saying yes. And here's what happens because of that. It gives an opportunity depending on how you open source it for innovation through commercial deployments, so that you get SaaS companies, you know, that are going to take that product and make it relevant and useful to a very broad number of customers. You build partnerships with cloud providers like AWS, because our customers love this open source project and they need help. And they may choose an AWS managed service, or they may end up working with this partner on a day-to-day basis. And we want to work with that partner because they're making our customers successful, which is one reason all of us are here. So you're having this set of innovation from large companies from, you know, whether they are just consumer companies like Metta infrastructure companies like us, or just random innovation that's happening in an open source project that which ends up in companies being spun up and that foster that innovative innovation and that flywheel that's happening right now. And I think you said that like, this is unique. I mean, you never saw this happen before from so many different directions. >> It really is a nice progression on the business model side as well. You mentioned Argo, which is a great organic thing that was Intuit developed. We just interviewed code fresh. They just presented here in the showcase as well. You seeing the formation around these projects develop now in the community at a different scale. I mean, look at code fresh. I mean, Intuit did it Argo and they're not just supporting it. They're building a platform. So you seeing the dynamics of tools and now emerging the platforms, you mentioned Lambda, okay. Which is proprietary for AWS and your talk powered by open source. So again, open source combined with cloud scale allows for new potential super applications or super clouds that are developing. This is a new phenomenon. This isn't just lift and shift and host on the cloud. This is actually a construction production developer workflow. >> Yeah. And you are seeing consumers, large companies, enterprises, startups, you know, it used to be that startups would be comfortable adopting some of these solutions, but now you see companies of all sizes doing so. And I said, it's not just software it's software, the services increasingly becoming the way these are given, delivered to customers. I actually think the innovation is just getting going, which is why we have this. We have so many partners here who are all in inventing and innovating on top of open source, whether it's developed by them or a broader community. >> Yeah. I liked, I liked the represent container. Do you guys have, did that drove that you've seen a lot of changes and again, with cloud scale and open source, you seeing the dynamics change, whether you're enabling that, and then you see kind of like real big change. So let's take snowflake, a big customer of AWS. They started out as a startup too, but they weren't a data warehouse. They were bringing data warehouse like functionality and then changing everything differently and making it consumable for the cloud. And hence they're huge. So that's a disruption into an incumbent leader or sector. Then you've got new capabilities emerging. What's your thoughts, Deepak? Can you share your vision on how you have the disruption to existing leaders, old guard, if you will, as you guys call them and then new capabilities as these new platforms emerge at a net new functionality, how do you see that emerging? >> Yeah. So I speak from my side of the world. I've lived in over the last few years, which has containers and serverless, right? There's a lot of, if you go to any enterprise and ask them, do you want to modernize the infrastructure? Do you want to take advantage of automated software delivery, continuous delivery infrastructure as code modern observability, all of them will say yes, but they also are still a large enterprise, which has these enterprise level requirements. I'm using the word enterprise a lot. And I usually it's a trigger word for me because so many customers have similar requirements, but I'm using it here as large company with a lot of existing software and existing practices. I think the innovation that's coming and I see a lot of companies doing that is saying, "Hey, we understand the problems you want to solve. We understand the world where you live in, which could be regulated." You want to use all these new modalities. How do we allow you to use all of them? Keep the advantages of switching to a Lambda or switching to, and a service running on far gate, but give you the same capabilities. And I think I'll bring up cystic here because we work so closely with them on Falco. As an example, I just talked about them in my keynote. They could have just said, "Oh no, we'll just support the SE2 and be done with it." They said, "No, we're going to make sure that serverless containers in particular are something that you're going to be really good at because our customers want to use them, but requires us to think differently. And then they ended up developing new things like Falco that are born in this new world, but understand the requirements of the old world. If you get what I'm saying. And I think that a real example. >> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, first of all, they're smart. So that was pretty obvious for most people that know, sees that you can connect the dots on serverless, which is a great point, but not everyone can see that again, this is what's new and and systig was just found in his backyard. As I found out on my interview, a great, great founder, they would do a new thing. So it was a very easy to connect the dots there again, that's the trend. Well, I got to ask if they're doing that for serverless, you mentioned graviton in your speech and what came out of you mentioned graviton in your speech and what came out of re-invent this past year was all the innovation going on at the compute level with gravitron at many levels in the Silicon. How should companies and open source developers think about how to innovate with graviton? >> Yeah, I mean, you've seen examples from people blogging and tweeting about how fast their applications run and grab it on the price performance benefits that they get, whether it's on, you know, whether it's an observability or other places. something that AWS is going to embrace across a compute something that AWS is going to embrace across a compute portfolio. Obviously you can go find EC2 instances, the gravitron two instances and run on them and that'll be great. But we know that most of our customers, many of our customers are building new applications on serverless containers and serveless than even as containers increasingly with things like foggy, where they don't want to operate the underlying infrastructure. A big part of what we're doing is to make sure that graviton is available to you on every compute modality. You can run it on a C2 forever. You've been running, being able to use ECS and EKS and run and grab it on almost since launch. What do you want me to take it a step further? You elastic Beanstalk customers, elastic Beanstalk has been around for a decade, but you can now use it with graviton. people running ECS on for gate can now use graviton. Lambda customers can pick graviton as well. So we're taking this price performance benefits that you get So we're taking this price performance benefits that you get from graviton and basically putting it across the entire compute portfolio. What it means is every high level service that gets built on compute infrastructure. And you get the price performance benefits, you get the price performance benefits of the lower power consumption of arm processes. So I'm personally excited like crazy. And you know, this has graviton 2 graviton 3 is coming. >> That's incredible. It's an opportunity like serverless was it's pretty obvious. And I think hopefully everyone will jump on that final question as the time's ticking here. I want to get your thoughts quickly. If you look at what's happened with containers over the past say eight years since the original founding of the first Docker instance, if you will, to how that's evolved and then the introduction of Kubernetes and the cloud native wave we're seeing now, what is, how would you describe the relationship between the success Docker, seeing now with Kubernetes in the cloud native construct what's different and why is this combination so successful? >> Yeah. I often say that containers would have, let me rephrase that. what I say is that people would have adopted sort of the modern way of running applications, whether containers came around or not. But the fact that containers came around made that migration and that journey is so much more efficient for people. So right from, I still remember the first doc that Solomon gave Billy announced DACA and starting to use it on customers, starting to get interested all the way to the more sort of advanced orchestration that we have now for containers across the board. And there's so many examples of the way you can do that. Kubernetes being the most, most well-known one. Here's the thing that I think has changed. I think what Kubernetes or Docker, or the whole sort of modern way of building applications has done is it's taken people who would have taken years adopting these practices and by bringing it right to the fingertips and rebuilding it into the APIs. And in the case of Kubernetes building an entire sort of software world around it, the number of, I would say number of decisions people have to take has gone smaller in many ways. There's so many options, the number of decisions that become higher, but the com the speed at which they can get to a result and a production version of an application that works for them is way low. I have not seen anything like what I've seen in the last 6, 7, 8 years of how quickly the most you know, the most I would say is, you know, a company that you would think would never adopt modern technology has been able to go from, this is interesting to getting a production really quickly. And I think it's because the tooling makes it So, and the fact that you see the adoption that you see right and the fact that you see the adoption that you see right from the fact that you could do Docker run Docker, build Docker, you know, so easily back in the day, all the way to all the advanced orchestration you can do with container orchestrator is today. sort of taking all of that away as well. there's never been a better time to be a developer independent of whatever you're trying to build. And I think containers are a big central part of why that's happened. >> Like the recipe, the combination of cloud-scale, the timing of Kubernetes and the containerization concepts just explode as a beautiful thing. And it creates more opportunities and will challenges, which are opportunities that are net new, but it solves the automation piece that we're seeing this again, it's only makes things go faster. >> Yes. >> And that's the key trend. Deepak, thank you so much for coming on. We're seeing tons of open cloud innovations, thanks to the success of your team at AWS and being great participants in the community. We're seeing innovations from startups. You guys are helping enabling that. Of course, they want to live on their own and be successful and build their super clouds and super app. So thank you for spending the time with us. Appreciate. >> Yeah. Anytime. And thank you. And you know, this is a great event. So I look forward to people running software and building applications, using AWS services and all these wonderful partners that we have. >> Awesome, great stuff. Great startups, great next generation leaders emerging. When you see startups, when they get successful, they become the modern software applications platforms out there powering business and changing the world. This is the cube you're watching the AWS startup showcase. Season two episode one open cloud innovations on John Furrier your host, see you next time.

>>Ply from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cube covering Cisco live 20 fly from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cube covering Cisco live 2020 brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners >>come back to the live coverage of Q four days here in Barcelona, Spain. I'm John for a stupid cube coverage at Cisco live 2020 in Europe. Our next guest, Michael Beasley CTO of the Cisco service provider business unit. Michael, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. It's great to see you guys again. You came on at the Cisco live show last year, 2019 in the U S obviously as a CTO of the service provider group, you're in the middle of all these really big conversations because the service providers, I've been really trying to push the envelope for generations into getting better performance, but the diversity of services that they have to start bolting onto their infrastructure. Now with all the pressure of the cloud providers, everybody's streaming these days, so all these new competition, so service parts still have a huge footprint, huge infrastructure. >>That's the story. What's going on with a service provider. They obviously do, I mean more and more service providers are deploying and running critical infrastructure for their consumer customers, their enterprise customers, and obviously as as the economy, as nations, as industries continued to digitize, that infrastructure's critical for governments, for countries and for whole economic environments. And the reality of course is that the bandwidth keeps growing more and more bandwidth is coming onto the network. We see tremendous innovation and advancements in the access layers, whether it be on the DOCSIS for cable, wifi, six obviously for wifi and for five G with regard to mobility. So the amount of bandwidth that can come on to the network keeps rising, rising exponentially. So the service providers, you know, obviously that poses a set of challenges, but also a set of opportunities as they rethink their architectures and their infrastructure to be able to deliver that bandwidth cost-effectively. >>I know cost is a huge concern for these guys because they do spend a lot of money. Stu and I were just reminiscing about how much we've been following Cisco growing up in the computer industry at our rate and we're there when Cisco was born and watch it progress over the years and now as it's on the next generation or the next gen cloud, next gen, everything. It's interesting you have the service providers say, but the one that you're in, and I would say maybe financial services have always been like the hardcore Cisco customer pushing the envelope on the gear, pushing the envelope on the technology because they have low latency requirements. You move and pack us around. Right now you're starting to add more payload with more bandwidth coming. It really kind of the fit of the bellwether. What are the big trends that they're driving now because again, they have to maintain those table stakes and still pioneer new ground. >>What are some of the things that they're doing that you see or tell signs for the future? >> I think the things that I see is first of all, a drive towards rearchitecting the network such that it's much more simple, easier to operate, more cost effective and more reliable to operate with w with new next generation technology up and down the SAC, the stack from the Silicon through the actual systems, the embedded software, the optical modules, all of the physical ingredients that go into building a next generation software defined transport network. That's really what I see our major customers aim towards. Obviously it takes time. There's an amount of challenges given that some of these customers have been running networks for century. That said the desire and the efforts to partner with us to get to that future state such that the bandwidth can be offered cost-effectively and very reliably as we're building out this, these critical infrastructures. >>I would add. The other aspect is that as these networks are getting more powerful delivering more services, there is more of a consideration for the integrity, the trustworthiness and the security of the actual networks and the actual infrastructure from the hardware through the software in Silicon that actually make the make up these networks in having technologies that can measure the trustworthiness and the fidelity both from a hardware but also from a software perspective and be able to report off of the infrastructure without the station records to verify and to drive analytics with regard to the cleanliness and the trustworthiness of this infrastructure. >>Yeah. Michael, I remember leading up to the announcement that this is gladness. December, it was, Oh here's the next gender issues generation in the internet and in my mind I was like, Oh, sounds like it's time for the next generation of routers. But what I found really interesting is, you know, what are those next generation applications that are going to drive things? You know John talks about from a history lesson, I remember going back, you know, okay, what's going to drive 10 gig? Oh, we're going from a lot of North South to the East. West virtualization wave was really kicking off inside data centers these days. You know, it's multicloud, it's cloud native application 5g of course as a drum beat in the background. Talked a little bit about some of those applications, the business impact that the surface fighters need to be able to enable in this rollout of this new technology. >>Yeah, it's a very interesting area. I've been in the industry for 30 something years, just about 30 years and I think I've never found the industry more exciting than it is today. Obviously there's that set of challenges, but there's an incredible set of opportunities as well. We have all of the applications that we know and love today are continuing to grow at exponential rates and get bigger, you know, further and further adoption. If you think you know the fact that less just slightly less than all humans on the planet are on the internet with more coming in the future at an accelerated rate and bringing more devices with them, we think that the average device per user will go for about two up to about three and a half over the next few years. So you have the current set of applications, whether it be social media, video, video streaming, they continue to grow. >>And then there is a whole new set of applications that we'll see. There's a long list. We will see which ones actually transpire. It's hard to predict, but everything from advances in gaming, artificial intelligence, AR, VR services, telemedicine, the continued digitalization of industry in particular, manufacturing, transportation, oil and gas. All of these industries opened up at the prospect for new applications that will run on top of these infrastructure that will drive exponential growth in bandwidth and also will, will require much, much better latency from the actual network infrastructure. So there are areas that we're focused on and delivering the innovation and the core building blocks to allow our customers to build these networks to offer these services. >>Well, one of the other challenges, and you've talked about these, these transitions in this step function that networking tends to do is the cost involved when you go from one generation to the next. Cisco of course, has a large optics business know major player in the industry. Talk to us a little bit about what 400 gig means today and have people should be thinking about the cost of these types of solutions. >>Yeah, it's interesting. Certainly as we've, as we've seen from each generation as the interface speeds have changed, the actual bomb, the bill of materials for the solution has changed significantly with regard to which piece account for what dollars it used to be. If you go back to the 10 gig generation, the actual networking equipment itself was the majority of the cost. That was the majority of the bomb optic modules that plugged in were a minority. Maybe the optic optic modules were 10 or 15% and the rest was actually the system. As we look to the 400 gig generation that is actually reversed the, we now have network Silicon that is so dense and so fast that eight can power a full 36 ports, a 400 gig on an actual line card. So you're plugging in 36 optical modules to bring that bandwidth to the, to the networking Silicon. >>So as a percentage of the bomb, the optical module is not much higher from a bomb perspective. It also becomes more critical technology with regard to the reliability and the cost of the whole solution. And this is why Cisco is taking a big focus on the optical module space. We've obviously continued our own organic development and we've also been quite active on the M and a front with regard to ensuring that we have the technology and the right R and D programs to be able to deliver very reliable, cost-effective optics at 400 gig and beyond. So you brought up Silicon, so I got to ask the Silicon one question we were covering at the launch in San Francisco, Chuck Robin was there, David Geckler, you had all the top dogs. They're kind of really kind of going off on the future of Silicon, but of course Silicon angle's interested in covering that because that's in our name. >>But the trend is about cloud scale and operational efficiency. And one of the things that's coming out of the cloud trend is an operating model in public cloud and on premise that is proven. That's what people are going through. That's hybrid. How were the SP service providers implementing that? Do you guys see the Silicon one being that opportunity where they can have an end to end software life cycle having operating model? Is that some of the value? So then what's the real story for us writers? So, I mean that's, that's a core aspect of our architecture and our strategy is to have a solution, a full solution that our service provider customers can consume that embodies all of those learnings and all of those operational realities that have built up in the, in the public cloud space. Certainly Silicon one is a key aspect of that with regard to being the fundamental building block from a network processing point of view being the fundamental building block that actually switches traffic that switches pockets and actually routes the traffic through the, through the infrastructure and through the transport network. >>Along with Silicon one we have our embedded software XR seven which is the control plane for that Silicon and it embodies the routing protocols, the management interfaces, analytics, traffic management, QoS services and so forth. But more and more we're augmenting that embedded software with a set of cloud services that are delivered as a SaaS to our customers. That AIDS in operations reduces their deployment efforts, their deployment costs, and also increases reliability of the whole solution. As the SaaS services are augmenting the physical infrastructure, there's less room for human error. There's less room for integration problems with between the layers in the stack. So it's a key aspect of our savagery. Okay. So let me ask you about the user experience or the application experience. So if I'm developing apps on Silicon one, is it multiple stacks? What's the stack look like? What's the, what's the developer environment look like? >>If I'm a telco or I'm a service provider, what's going on? >> So it depends on the, on the use case, what we announced last month was not only the Silicon and our own products, the Cisco 8,000 that uses that Silicon, but we also announced the offerings of Silicon one through a merchant Silicon program where you know, third parties and OEM, a large customer could actually transact with us on the Silicon alone where we're selling them the actual Silicon. In that context, the Silicon comes with a full featured software development kit that sits on top of that Silicon. You can consider that a device driver if you like an abstraction layer that then allows that third party to either use open source or to build their own network services stack on top of that SDK that can then leverage all of the power in the innovation that is in the Silicon one engine. >>Before I get to my video question because I, cause we're doing video, we care about facts but we love more bandwidth. We love more video action. How do you talk to customers that you meet with? Because we hear a lot from the community and our expert network on the cube alumni that in certain there's a lot of pretender products out there, you bolt on a Nick offload. Where is it okay to have kind of like performance enhancements, performance enhancing hardware. That sounds kind of, that didn't sound right, but performance hardware when when the system is more important. So which customer profiles want more of the Silicon one or Cisco 8,000 versus a either an enhancement product and how does the customer determine what's a fit form one may be look good on paper, low price, high performance. How do you go in and say that's pretending that's a player? >>It's interesting. I think that the fundamental root of the answer to that question is you have to look at the application stack that you're trying to deliver. If it's a homogeneous stack where the applications are infrastructure to deliver services to a third party, then what matters simply is that application and all the infrastructure underneath it. How can you deliver that most cost effectively both in terms of capital costs but also operational cost in terms of power and human operational costs with regard to running the infrastructure. If you, if you think about a heterogeneous situation, public cloud is a good example of that where the public cloud provider is responsible and bears the cost of the infrastructure layer and the customer, the customer themselves are bringing the application workloads to run on top of that infrastructure. In that heterogeneous model. Indeed there might be, you know, some valid business security and operational reasons for actually separating the infrastructure out and having a part in the infrastructure dedicated to run the application on a part of the infrastructure dedicated to the overhead of that application, whether it be virtual networking, security functions, analytics and so forth. >>So it's interesting generally with our customers, what they're looking for more than anything else is bottom line. What is the most efficient way to deliver the end result, regardless of how it's architected, regardless of how the processing is separated into different layers of compute and dedicated hardware, what's the most effective way to deliver the outcome, both in terms of capital cost and more and more operational costs. And as everything gets faster, the power draw is more and more a very dominating function with regard to the ongoing operational costs of these networks. I want to get your thoughts on a couple of trends. One is the comeback. A voice. Stu was riffing about his days were going to voice over IP. Now voice, Hey Alexa, you know there's a small, it's not a real deep bandwidth heavy application, so get great voices coming back that fits a service providers. >>But video is growing really fast. So video is putting a lot of pressure on service providers. What's the state of the art there? Can you make a comment on how you see that evolving? What are they doing and what are some best practices and what are people doing? Yeah, I mean you're exactly right. Video in particular over the top video streaming video, but broadly video at all forms continues to grow at exponential levels. Our analysis, if you look at the Cisco VNI study by 2022 we predict that more than 80% of all internet traffic is actually going to be video. And along with its growth, unfortunately the value per bit goes down because especially as you get higher definition videos in particular, the value per bid to the service provider to the, to the entity bearing the transport cost of the video is actually going down. >>So what that drives our customers to do is first of all provision very high bandwidth networks but also optimize the most cost effective way to deliver that video at very high quality to their end users. I would say there's a few things that are top of mind in achieving that. The first is distributing out the network in particular, distributing out, peering into the Metro areas of the network and no longer having Piering dedicated only at the far side of the backbone when peering is done in the Metro. That traffic is literally on the network for less kilometers. So that helps. I would also say the deployment of edge compute caching and CDN services in the Metro really helps in delivering video. We just got a great tutorial on video architecture in the major highways of the pipes Metro appearing. So changing the dynamics of peering relationships, traffic routes, but ultimately making an efficient. >>Exactly. Well Michael, great to have you on. I know you've got mobile world Congress coming up in February. I always a big show, um, spill some of the announcements for us. I'd love to, but I thought I would be not popular with my bosses by now. Just just teasing you. I know you've got some good stuff on. We're waiting to hear them. We haven't heard anything, but we're getting some rumblings as always. Big announcements for you guys. Congratulations. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. I look forward to it. Great insights here on the cube, on the service provider market, the needs, what's going on in the network, and really ultimately video's changing and also the architecture is changing and this is putting more pressure. Again, more bandwidth, more things are happening. This is the Cisco powered cube here in Barcelona. I'm Gianforte Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching.

>> Live from Stanford University, it's theCUBE. Covering Global Women in Data Science Conference. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. >> Welcome back to theCUBE I'm Lisa Martin. We've been live all day at the fourth annual Women in Data Science Conference. I'm with John Furrier, John, this is not just WiDS fourth annual, it's theCUBE's fourth time covering this event. There were, as Margot Gerritsen, Co-Founder stopped by this afternoon and was chatting with me saying, there's over 20,000 people they expect today just to watch the WiDS livestream from Stanford. Another 100,000 engaging in over 150 regional WiDS events, and 50 countries, CUBE's been there since the beginning tell us a little bit about that. >> Well what's exciting about this event is that we've been there from the beginning, present at creation with these folks. Great community, Judy Logan, Karen Matthys, Margot. They're all been great, but the vision from day one has been put together smart people, okay, on a stage, in a room, and bring it, syndicate it out to anyone who's available, meet ups and groups around the world. And if you bet on good content and quality people the community with self-form. And with the Stanford brand behind it, it really was a formula for success from day one. And this is the new model, this is the new reality, where, if you have high quality people in context, the global opportunity around the content and community work well together, and I think they cracked the code. Something that we feel similar at theCUBE is high quality conversations, builds community so content drives community and keep that fly wheel going this is what Women in Data Science have figured out. And I'm sure they have the data behind it, they have the women who can analyze the data. But more importantly is a great community and it's just it's steamrolling forward ahead, it's just great to see. 50 countries, 125 cities, 150 events. And it's just getting started so, we're proud to be part of it, and be part of the creation but continue to broadcast and you know you're doing a great job, and I wish I was interviewing, some of the ladies myself but, >> I know you do >> I get jealous. >> you're always in the background, yes I know you do. You know you talk about fly wheel and Margot Gerritsen we had her on the WiDS broadcast last year, and she said, you know, it's such a short period of time its been three and a half years. That they have generated this incredible momentum and groundswell that every time, when you walk in the door, of the Stanford Arrillaga Alumni Center it's one of my favorite events as you know, you feel this support and this positivity and this movement as soon as you step foot in the door. But Margot said this actually really was an idea that she and her Co-Founders had a few years ago. As almost sort of an anti, a revenge conference. Because they go to so many events, as do we John, where there are so many male, non-female, keynote speakers. And you and theCUBE have long been supporters of women in technology, and the time is now, the momentum is self-generating, this fly wheel is going as you mentioned. >> Well I think one of the things that they did really well was they, not only the revenge on the concept of having women at the event, not being some sort of, you know part of an event, look we have brought women in tech on stage, you know this is all power women right? It's not built for the trend of having women conference there's actual horsepower here, and the payload of the content agenda is second to none. If you look at what they're talking about, it's hardcore computer science, its data analytics, it's all the top concepts that the pros are talking about and it just happens to be all women. Now, you combine that with what they did around openness they created a real open environment around opening up the content and not making it restrictive. So in a way that's, you know, counter intuitive to most events and finally, they created a video model where they livestream it, theCUBE is here, they open up the video format to everybody and they have great people. And I think the counter intuitive ones become the standard because not everyone is doing it. So that's how success is, it's usually the ones you don't see coming that are doing it and they think they did it. >> I agree, you know this is a technical conference and you talked about there's a lot of hardcore data science and technology being discussed today. Some of the interesting things, John, that I really heard thematically across all the guests that I was able to interview today is, is the importance, maybe equal weight, maybe more so some of the other skills, that, besides the hardcore data analysis, statistical analysis, computational engineering and mathematics. But it's skills such as communication, collaboration collaboration was key throughout the day, every person in academia and the industry that we talked to. Empathy, the need to have empathy as you're analyzing data with these diverse perspectives. And one of the things that kind of struck me as interesting, is that some of the training in those other skills, negotiation et cetera, is not really infused yet in a lot of the PhD Programs. When communication is one of the key things that makes WiDS so effective is the communication medium, but also the consistency. >> I think one of the things I'm seeing out of this trend is the humanization of data and if you look at I don't know maybe its because its a women's conference and they have more empathy than men as my wife always says to me. But in seriousness, the big trend right now in machine learning is, is it math or is it cognition? And so if you look at the debate that machine learning concepts, you have two schools of thought. You have the Berkeley School of thought where it's all math all math, and then you have, you know kind of another school of thought where learning machines and unsupervised machine learning kicks in. So, machines have to learn, so, in order to have a humanization side is important and people who use data the best will apply human skills to it. So it's not just machines that are driving it, it's the role of the humans and the machines. This is something we have been talking a lot in theCUBE about and, it's a whole new cutting edge area of science and social science and look at it, fake news and all these things in the mainstream press as you see it playing out everyday, without that contextual analysis and humanization the behavioral data gets lost sometimes. So, again this is all data, data science concepts but without a human application, it kind of falls down. >> And we talked about that today and one of the interesting elements of conversation was, you know with respect to data ethics, there's 2.5 trillion data sets generated everyday, everything that we do as people is traceable there's a lot of potential there. But one of the things that we talked about today was this idea of, almost like a Hippocratic Oath that MDs take, for data scientists to have that accountability, because the human component there is almost one that can't really be controlled yet. And it's gaining traction this idea of this oath for data science. >> Yeah and what's interesting about this conference is that they're doing two things at the same time. If you look at the data oath, if you will, sharing is a big part, if you look at cyber security, we are going to be at the RSA conference this week. You know, people who share data get the best insights because data, contextual data, is relevant. So, if you have data and I'm looking at data but your data could help me figure out my data, data blending together works well. So that's an important concept of data sharing and there's an oath involved, trust, obviously, privacy and monitoring and being a steward of the data. The second thing that's going on at this event is because it's a global event broadcast out of Stanford, they're activating over 50 countries, over 125 cities, they're creating a localization dynamic inside other cities so, they're sharing their data from this event which is the experts on stage, localizing it in these markets, which feeds into the community. So, the concept of sharing is really important to this conference and I think that's one of the highlights I see coming out of this is just that, well, the people are amazing but this concept of data sharing it's one of those big things. >> And something to that they're continuing to do is not just leverage the power of the WiDS brand that they're creating in this one time of year in the March of the year where they are generating so much interest. But Margot talked about this last year, and the idea of developing content to have this sustained inspiration and education and support. They just launched a podcast a few months ago, which is available on iTunes and GooglePlay. And also they had their second annual datathon this year which was looking at palm oil production, plantations rather, because of the huge biodiversity and social impact that these predictive analytics can have, it's such an interesting, diverse, set of complex challenges that they tackle and that they bring more awareness to everyday. >> And Padmasree Warrior talked about her keynote around, former Cisco CTO, and she just ran, car, she's working on a new start up. She was talking about the future of how the trends are, the old internet days, as the population of internet users grew it changed the architecture. Now mobile phones, that's changing the architecture. Now you have a global AI market, that's going to change the architecture of the solutions, and she mentioned at the end, an interesting tidbit, she mentioned Blockchain. And so I think that's something that's going to be kind of interesting in this world is, because there's, you know about data and data science, you have Blockchain it's the data store potentially out there. So, interesting to see as you start getting to these supply chains, managing these supply chains of decentralization, how that's going to impact the WiDS community, I'm curious to see how the team figures that out. >> Well I look forward to being here at the fifth annual next year, and watching and following the momentum that WiDS continues to generate throughout the rest of 2019. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, thanks so much for watching theCUBE's coverage, of the fourth annual Women in Data Science Conference Bye for now. (upbeat electronic music)

(electronic music) >> From the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE! Covering, CloudNOW's 7th Annual Top Women Entrepreneurs in Cloud Innovation Awards. >> Hi, Lisa Martin with theCUBE, on the ground at Facebook headquarters. We're here for the 7th Annual CloudNOW Top Women Entrepreneurs in Cloud Innovation Awards. Our third time covering this event, and we're excited to welcome to theCube, one of tonight's winners, Masha Sedova, the co-founder of Elevate Security. Masha, welcome to theCUBE! >> Lisa, thank you so much for having me, it's really great to be here. >> And congratulations on the award. >> Thank you, thank you. >> So you are a security expert, you studied, you were a STEM kid back in school, but you had this really interesting experience when you were at Salesforce a few years ago, related to security, where you went, I think I see one of the things people have been missing where cyber security is concerned. Tell us about that aha moment. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, having grown up in the security field, there's this saying that, the human is the weakest link. And I personally never believed that, and I was like, there's got to be a way of turning this around and so, I stepped back and said, What it would look like if people wanted to do security instead of had to? What it would look like if people were champions for security, and not because we made them do it, but because each of us were invested in it? And so, I took a step back from my Computer science and computer security background, and dove into the field of behavioral science, positive psychology, and game design. And started exploring how people think, and how we make decisions, to see if I can start applying that to security. And, would you know it, there's some really amazing findings that I came across in that space. >> So you were saying, before we went on that, a pretty significant percentage of breaches are, unfortunately, caused by us humans. >> Yeah, something like 95% have a human error related to it. And if you think about cyber attacks, it's a human being attacking another human being with a bunch of technology in the middle. And if we keep solving it with just technology we're going to keep ending up making the same mistakes we have been making for decades. But if we look at the human element, and why we make mistakes, and how we let ourselves learn from them and make better mistakes and also better choices, we can actually move the needle in a really significant way. >> So, Elevate Security co-founded just a couple of years ago. Really impressive with your board. Tell us about your leadership team and the board before we get into the significance of the name. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, it's co-founded by myself and my co-founder Robert Fly. So, we have a diverse founding team. And from the very beginning we believed that embracing our diversity, in our hires would be of significant differentiator and not just the way we hire, but also the way we build our product. Because we're building products for employees of a whole bunch of companies all over the world and so it was really important to us. And so, to date we're 50% women including our engineering team and we have an all outside female board, board of directors which is a fact I'm really excited to announce today. >> Excited and proud. So when you had this idea, (clears throat) excuse me, and clearly all of the data show that, like you said if we keep throwing technology at the problem with security we're not going to solve it. >> Yeah >> What were the conversations like as a female co-founder, going in and trying to get funding for this idea in something as, hot of a topic and sensitive as cyber security? >> Yeah, you know, it was challenging. Fundraising, I think if you ask any founder you'd say, it would be challenging. I would recommend anybody going into this know your stuff, and stand up behind it, know that you have experience and an idea or a brand, that brings you to the table, brings something to the table and that you have that behind you. So, just because several VCs might say no it doesn't mean that your idea's not worth fighting for or coming to life. And so, it took us a while but we found a fantastic set of venture partners to back us who had very similar philosophies in the way they both raise money and supported entrepreneurship and it's really exciting, exciting time to be have partnered with them. >> So, one of the things you mentioned before went on was the card that your mom gave you. >> Yeah. >> I think that's so inspiring and share that with our audience for those who might have a great idea like you did but say, I keep being told no. >> Yeah, just 'cause it's hard, doesn't mean it's not worth doing. If I, were to have gotten to the end of my life and I didn't try starting a company, I knew that I was always regret it. And, that is something I definitely couldn't live with. And, the card that my mom sent me, it was in late in 2016 it said, "A ship is safe in the harbor "but that is not what ships are built for." And I realized, I had to do this. I absolutely had to start this company, I had to see where it goes and I have a unique perspective and a unique set of experiences in the world. And ideas about how this really hard problem can be solved and I want to see it come to life. And I have had the opportunity to gather an amazing team around me to help me make that vision come to life and I'm really excited to see where it goes. >> So in terms of where it's going, humans are sensitive people. >> (chuckles) Yeah. >> When you're talking with companies, >> Yeah. >> Whether they're born in the cloud companies or legacy enterprise companies and you're saying, Hey, guys it's your people, we're all human. >> Yeah. >> From a cultural response. >> Yeah. >> What's that conversation like do they understand it? And how do you help them go from those really, like we were talking about boring-- >> Yeah. >> Videos and training tutorials to actually, impacting behavior? >> Mm hmm Yeah, so there's two schools of thought in security field. It's the people who believe that human element can't be solved, that humans will always make mistakes, so we need to throw as much technology at it as possible. We've been doing that for three decades and it hasn't worked. And honestly I'm waiting for that generation to move on until we get a new set of ideas in. And what I'm seeing is the up and coming, set of security leadership coming in saying, You know what? Let's try something new, let's try something different. And, you know, I have invested in technology and it hasn't solved it. What if we try a different approach? And, the thing is, security people aren't known for our human expertise. We're good at a lot of other things, but not human expertise, and so bringing in things like behavioral science which is known for understanding how and why we make decisions is a perfect combination to solve this problem that, to date has been unsolvable. Because we really haven't been bringing in expertise outside of our field which on the topic of diversity, is exactly what we need. >> Exactly. So what are you looking forward to as we are just about in the finishing the first month of 2019? >> Oh yeah so, we'll be at RSA at the end of February, early March speaking about our brand new product Snapshot. But I'm also really excited to continue hiring out our team. We are hiring tons of engineers, so if anyone is looking please-- >> Where can they go? >> Elevatesecurity.com. >> Elevatesecurity.com. >> Mm Hmm, yeah, and so continuing to build out our team in San Francisco and in Montreal. >> Well Masha, congratulations on the award, on this really innovative idea bringing in, behavior to security. We appreciate your time and look forward to seeing more of what you guys are about to do. >> Thank you so much. >> Congratulations. We want to thank you for watching theCUBE, I'm Lisa Martin on the ground at Facebook. See you next time. 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>> From Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube, covering LiveWorx '18. Brought to you by PTC. >> Welcome back to Boston, everybody. This is the LiveWorx show, hosted by PTC, and you're watching The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-host, Stu Miniman, covering IoT, Blockchain, AI, the Edge, the Cloud, all kinds of crazy stuff going on. Kevin Ashton is here. He's the inventor of the term, IoT, and the creator of the Wemo Home Automation platform. You may be familiar with that, the Smart Plugs. He's also the co-founder and CEO of Zensi, which is a clean tech startup. Kevin, thank you for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you for having me. >> You're very welcome. So, impressions of LiveWorx so far? >> Oh wow! I've been to a few of these and this is the biggest one so far, I think. I mean, it's day one and the place is hopping. It's like, it's really good energy here. It's hard to believe it's a Monday. >> Well, it's interesting right? You mean, you bring a ton of stayed manufacturing world together with this, sort of, technology world and gives us this interesting cocktail. >> I think the manufacturing world was stayed in the 1900s but in the 21st century, it's kind of the thing to be doing. Yeah, and this... I guess this is, you're right. This is not what people think of when they think of manufacturing, but this is really what it looks like now. It's a digital, energetic, young, exciting, innovative space. >> Very hip. And a lot of virtual reality, augmented reality. Okay, so this term IoT, you're accredited, you're the Wikipedia. Look up Kevin, you'll see that you're accredited with inventing, creating that term. Where did it come from? >> Oh! So, IoT is the Internet of Things. And back in 1990s, I was a Junior Manager at Proctor & Gamble, consumer goods company. And we were having trouble keeping some products on the shelves, in the store, and I had this idea of putting this new technology called RFID tags. Little microchips, into all Proctor products. Gamble makes like two billion products a year or something and putting it into all of them and connecting it to this other new thing called the internet, so we'd know where our stuff was. And, yeah the challenge I faced as a young executive with a crazy idea was how to explain that to senior management. And these were guys who, in those days, they didn't even do email. You send them an email, they'd like have their secretary print it out and then hand write a reply. It would come back to you in the internal mail. I'm really not kidding. And I want to put chips in everything. Well the good news was, about 1998, they'd heard of the internet, and they'd heard that the internet was a thing you were supposed to be doing. They didn't know what it was. So I literally retitled my PowerPoint presentation, which was previously called Smart Packaging, to find a way to get the word Internet in. And the way I did it was I wrote, Internet of Things. And I got my money and I founded a research center with Proctor & Gamble's money at MIT, just up the road here. And basically took the PowerPoint presentation with me, all over the world, to convince other people to get on board. And somehow, the name stuck. So that's the story. >> Yeah, it's fascinating. I remember back. I mean, RFID was a big deal. We've been through, you know-- I studied Mechanical Engineering. So manufacturing, you saw the promise of it, but like the internet, back in the 90s, it was like, "This seems really cool. "What are you going to do with it?" >> Exactly, and it kind of worked. Now it's everywhere. But, yeah, you're exactly right. >> When you think back to those times and where we are in IoT, which I think, most of us still say, we're still relatively early in IoT, industrial internet. What you hear when people talk about it, does it still harken back to some of the things you thought? What's different, what's the same? >> So some of the big picture stuff is very much the same, I think. We had this, the fundamental idea behind the MIT research, behind the Internet of Things was, get computers to gather the relevant information. If we can do that, now we have this whole, powerful new paradigm in computing. Coz it's not about keyboards anymore, and in places like manufacturing, I mean Proctor & Gamble is a manufacturing company, they make things and they sell them. The problem in manufacturing is keyboards just don't scale as an information capture technology. You can't sit in a warehouse and type everything you have. And something goes out the door and type it again. And so, you know, in the 90s, barcodes came and then we realized that we could do much better. And that was the Internet of Things. So that big picture, wouldn't it be great if we knew wherever things was, automatically? That's come true and at times, a million, right? Some of the technologies that are doing it are very unexpected. Like in the 1990s, we were very excited about RFID, partly because vision technology, you know, cameras connected to computers, was not working at all. It looked very unpromising, with people been trying for decades to do machine vision. And it didn't work. And now it does, and so a lot of things, we thought we needed RFID for, we can now do with vision, as an example. Now, the reason vision works, by the way, is an interesting one, and I think is important for the future of Internet of Things, vision works because suddenly we had digital cameras connected to networks, mainly in smartphones, that we're enable to create this vast dataset, that could then be used to train their algorithms, right? So what is was, I've scanned in a 100 images in my lab at MIT and I'm trying to write an algorithm, machine vision was very hard to do. When you've got hundreds of, millions of images available to you easily because phones and digital cameras are uploading all the time, then suddenly you can make the software sing and dance. So, a lot of the analytical stuff we've already seen in machine vision, we'll start to see in manufacturing, supply chain, for example, as the data accumulates. >> If you go back to that time, when you were doing that PowerPoint, which was probably less than a megabyte, when you saved it, did you have any inkling of the data explosion and were you even able to envision how data models would change to accommodate, did you realize at the time that the data model, the data pipeline, the ability to store all this distributed data would have to change? Were you not thinking that way? >> It's interesting because I was the craziest guy in the room. When I came to internet bandwidth and storage ability, I was thinking in, maybe I was thinking in gigabytes, when everyone else was thinking in kilobytes, right? But I was wrong. I wasn't too crazy, I was not crazy enough. I wouldn't, quick to quote, quite go so far as to call it a regret, but my lesson for life, the next generation of innovators coming up, is you actually can't let, kind of, the average opinion in the room limit how extreme your views are. Because if it seems to make sense to you, that's all that matters, right? So, I didn't envision it, is the answer to your question, even though, I was envisioning stuff, that seemed crazy to a lot of other people. I wasn't the only crazy one, but I was one of the few. And so, we underestimated, even in our wildest dreams, we underestimated the bandwidth and memory innovation, and so we've seen in the last 25 years. >> And, I don't know. Stu, you're a technologist, I'm not, but based on what you see today, do you feel like, the technology infrastructure is there to support these great visions, or do we have to completely add quantum computing or blockchain? Are we at the doorstep, or are we decades away? >> Oh, were at the doorstep. I mean, I think the interesting thing is, a lot of Internet of Things stuff, in particular, is invisible for number of reasons, right? It's invisible because, you know, the sensors and chips are embedded in things and you don't see them, that's one. I mean, there is a billion more RFID tags made in the world, than smartphones every year. But you don't see them. You see the smartphone, someone's always looking at their smartphone. So you don't realize that's there. So that's one reason, but, I mean, the other reason is, the Internet of Things is happening places and in companies that don't have open doors and windows, they're not on the high street, right? They are, it's warehouses, it's factories, it's behind the scenes. These companies, they have no reason to talk about what they are doing because it's a trade secret or it's you know, just not something people want to write about or read about, right? So, I just gave a talk here, and one of the examples I gave was a company who'd, Heidelberger. Heidelberger makes 60% of the offset printing presses in the world. They're one of the first Internet of Things pioneers. Most people haven't heard of them, most people don't see offset printers everyday. So the hundreds of sensors they have in their hundreds of printing presses, completely invisible to most of us, right? So, it's definitely here, now. You know, will the infrastructure continue to improve? Yes. Will we see things that are unimaginable today, 20 years from today? Yes. But I don't see any massive limitations now in what the Internet of Things can become. >> We just have a quick question, your use case for that offset printing, is it predictive maintenance, or is it optimization (crosstalk). >> It is initially like, it was in 1990s, when the customer calls and says, "My printing press isn't working, help", instead of sending the guide and look at the diagnostics, have the diagnostics get sent to the guide, that was the first thing, but then gradually, that evolves to realtime monitoring, predictive maintenance, your machine seems to be less efficient than the average of all the machines. May be we can help you optimize. Now that's the other thing about all Internet of Things applications. You start with one sensor telling you one thing for one reason, and it works, you add two, and you find four things you can do and you add three, and you find nine things you can do, and the next thing you know, you're an Internet of Things company. You never meant to be. But yeah, that's how it goes. It's a little bit like viral or addictive. >> Well, it's interesting to see the reemergence, new ascendancy of PTC. I mean, heres a company in 2003, who was, you know, bouncing along the ocean's floor, and then the confluence of all this trends, some acquisitions and all of a sudden, they're like, the hot new kid on the block. >> Some of that's smart management, by the way. >> Yeah, no doubt. >> And, I don't work for PTC but navigating the change is important and I want to say, all of the other things I just talked about in my talk, but, you know, we think about these tools that companies like PTC make as design tools. But they're very quickly transitioning to mass production tools, right? So it used be, you imagined a thing on your screen and you made a blueprint of it. Somebody made it in the shop. And then it was, you didn't make it in a shop, you had a 3D printer. And you could make a little model of it and show management. Everyone was very excited about that. Well, you know, what's happening now, what will happen more is that design on the screen will be plugged right in to the production line and you push a button and you make a million. Or your customer will go to a website, tweak it a little bit, make it a different color or different shape or something, and you'll make one, on your production line that makes a million. So, there's this seamless transition happening from imagining things using software, to actually manufacturing them using software, which is very much the core of what Internet of Things is about and it's a really exciting part of the current wave of the industrial revolution. >> Yeah, so Kevin, you wrote a book which follows some of those themes, I believe, it's How to Fly A Horse. I've read plenty of books where it talks about people think that innovation is, you know, some guy sitting under a tree, it hits him in the head and he does things. But we know that, first of all, almost everybody is building on you know, the shoulders of those before us. Talk a little bit about creativity, innovation. >> Okay. Sure. >> Your thoughts on that. >> So, I have an undergraduate degree in Scandinavian studies, okay? I studied Ibsen in 19th century Norwegian, at university. And then I went to Proctor & Gamble and I did marketing for color cosmetics. And then the next thing that happened to me was I'm at MIT, right? I'm an Executive Director of this prestigious lab at MIT. And I did this at the same time that the Harry Potter books were becoming popular, right? So I already felt like, oh my God! I've gone to wizard school but nobody realizes that I'm not a wizard. I was scared of getting found out, right? I didn't feel like a wizard because anything I managed to create was like the 1000th thing I did after 999 mistakes. You know, I was like banging my head against the wall. And I didn't know what I was doing. And occasionally, I got lucky, and I was like, oh they're going to figure out, that I'm not like them, right? I don't have the magic. And actually what happened to me at MIT over four years, I figured out nobody had the magic. There is no magic, right? There were those of us who believed this story about geniuses and magic, and there were other people who were just getting on with creating and the people at MIT were the second group. So, that was my revelation that I wasn't an imposter, I was doing things the way everybody I'd ever heard of, did them. And so, I did some startups and then I wanted to write a book, like kind of correcting the record, I guess. Because it's frustrating to me, like now, I'm called the inventor of the Internet of Things. I'm not the inventor of the Internet of Things. I wrote three words on a PowerPoint slide, I'm one of a hundred thousand people that all chipped away at this problem. And probably my chips were not as big as a lot of other people's, right? So, it was really important to me to talk about that, coz I meet so many people who want to create something, but if it doesn't happen instantly, or they don't have the brilliant idea in the shower, you know, they think they must be bad at it. And the reality is all creating is a series of steps. And as I was writing the book, I researched, you know, famous stories like Newton, and then less famous stories like the African slave kid who discovered how to farm vanilla, right? And found that everybody was doing it the same way, and in every discipline. It doesn't matter if it's Kandinsky painting a painting, or some scientist curing cancer. Everybody is struggling. They're struggling to be heard, they're struggling to be understood, they're struggling to figure out what to do next. But the ones who succeed, just keep going. I mean, and the title, How To Fly A Horse is because of the Wright brothers. Coz that's how they characterized the problem they were trying to solve and there are classic example of, I mean, literally, everybody else was jumping off mountains wit wings on their back, and dying, and the Wright brothers took this gradual, step by step approach, and they were the ones who solved the problem, how to fly. >> There was no money, and no resources, and Samuel Pierpont Langley gave up. >> Yeah, exactly. The Wright brothers were bicycle guys and they just figured out how to convert what they knew into something else. So that's how you create. I mean, we're surrounded by people who know how to do that. That's the story of How To Fly A Horse. >> So what do we make of, like a Steve Jobs. Is he an anomaly, or is he just surrounded by people who, was he just surrounded by people who knew how to create? >> I talk about Steve Jobs in the book, actually, and yeah, I think the interesting thing about Jobs is defining characteristic, as I see it. And yeah, I followed the story of Apple since I was a kid, one of the first news I ever saw was an Apple. Jobs was never satisfied. He always believed things could be made better. And he was laser focused on trying to make them better, sometimes to the detriment of the people around him, but that focus on making things better, enabled him, yes, to surround himself with people who were good at doing what they did, but also then driving them to achieve things. I mean, interesting about Apple now is, Apple are sadly becoming, kind of, just another computer company now, without somebody there, who is not-- I mean, he's stand up on stage and say I've made this great thing, but what was going on in his head often was, but I wish that curve was slightly different or I wish, on the next one, I'm going to fix this problem, right? And so the minute you get satisfied with, oh, we're making billions of dollars, everything's great, that's when your innovation starts to plummet, right? So that was, I think to me, Jobs was a classic example of an innovator, because he just kept going. He kept wanting to make things better. >> Persistence. Alright, we got to go. Thank you so much. >> Thank you guys. >> For coming on The Cube. >> Great to see you. >> Great to meet you, Kevin. Alright, keep it right there buddy. Stu and I will be back with our next guest. This is The Cube. We're live from LiveWorx at Boston and we'll be right back.