>> Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cue covering Sisqo. Live Europe, Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona, Everybody watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Valentin here with my co host Student events. Do Myself and John for Be here all week. Eric Hurt, Saugus Here Long time Cuba Long friend. Great to see you again. He's the CMO of IBM IBM Storage division. He's joined by James Amy's, who's the head of networks at advance. The service provider Guys, Welcome to the Cube. Good to see again. >> Great. Thanks for having us loved being on the cute. >> So we love having you So, James, let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about advanced to want to dig into some of the networking trends. We're hearing a lot about it here. It's just go live. >> Yeah, I think so. Advanced are a manage service provider software software company based in the UK, one of the largest software companies in the UK, providing interim solutions for lots of different Marchal market verticals, including healthcare, local government, regional government, national infrastructure projects we've got involved with as well as charity sector legal sector. A lot of education work we do is real diverse portfolio of products we offer on with the manage services piece. We also offer complete outsourcing. So this is desktop support. Telephony support, printer support all the >> way back into integration with public cloud platforms and private cloud platforms, the majority of >> which is our in. >> So so Eric advanced are both a customer and a partner, right? Right, right. And so you love you. Love versus Stack. These guys are presumed versus stack customers. Well >> stacked customer in the Versace tack, as you know, Integrate. Cisco, UCS, Cisco Networking Infrastructure, IBM Storage of all types entry products up into the fastest all flash raise with our software spectrum virtualized spectrum, Accelerate Family and James's company is using versus tax is part of their infrastructure, which they then offer, as you know, to a service toe and uses. James just described. >> So let's talk about some of the big trends that you guys are seeing and how you're both responding to customers and you're responding to your customer. So we're seeing two hearing today. Lot about multi cloud. We've been hearing that for a while the network is flattening your network expert love to get your your thoughts on that. Security, obviously, is a huge topic. End end management, another big topic, something that IBM is focused on. So so James, what 1 of the big mega trends that you're seeing that a driving your business decisions and your customer's activity? One >> of the big changes we're seeing is a change from large scare enterprise scale deployments off a particular type of technology on customers are now choosing because they're informed the best fit for a particular application or particular service on that may be coming to a service provider like ourselves to offer our services products to them. Uh, or they're looking for us to run in infrastructure service for them or integrate with a public cloud offering. So the competition of the public cloud for service providers is key on DH. I think people were looking around a few years ago thinking, How do we compete to this well, with partnerships that we have in our Francisco? It gives us a very compelling competitive offering. But we can turn around and say, Well, we can give you a like for like, but we can give you a slightly better service because we could give you guaranteed availability. We give you guaranteed price point on, and this is all backed with key vendor certified designs. So we're not talking about going out on developing a solution that takes maybe eighteen months to take to market. This is understanding a requirement for a quick, you know, Q and A with a customer a line that, too a reference architecture that we can literally just pick up off the shelf, deploy into our data centers using the standard building rocks that we use across the business. So Nexus nine K seven k's or our standard bread and butter inside the data center environment. As Eric pointed out, Cisco UCS is our our key Intel computer platform that we used on DH. The store wise IBM product has been a real true success story for us. So we started off being a a mixed then the house where we would align storage requirement paste with what we could find in the market. That was, that was a good fit. But the store was products is basically just allowed us to standardize on the speed of deployment is one of the key things. So we started out with a very lengthy lead time tio service ready, which is when we start charging for revenue on if we want a ninety day build. Well, we've got a lot of special service time, A lot of engineering time getting that ready Teo, Teo and take to the customer and then we turn it on. We can start seeing revenue from that platform with versus Stack. This enabled us to accelerate how quickly we can turn that on. And we've seen that drop, too. They're literally days through standardisation elements of automation as well. Many of our environments are bespoke because we have such a wide arrange off different types of customers with different needs, but it allows us to take those standing building blocks, align them to their needs and deliver that service. >> James James, we found the peas are often in the middle of those discussions that customers are having on multi clouds. You talked a lot about the services you build. Are they also coming to you? If if you tie into the public Cloud services or yes, maybe you can help explain a little bit on how that worked Five years ago, it was the public loud there are going to kill them and service providers. And what we see is customers can't sort out half of what's going on. They've got to be able to turn two partners like you to be able to figure this out. >> Yeah, that's a fantastic question. I think three years ago we'd be talking to our customers and they were I am going to this public cloud or I am going to build this infrastructure. Where is now? They're They're making Mohr informed select decisions based on the drive to the hosted office and voice platforms offered by Microsoft. There's a big driving. Many of our customers are going in that direction, but it's how we integrate that with legacy applications. Some of the solutions that some of our customers use have have have had millions of pounds of investment into them, and that's not something I can just turn off the water away from overnight. So it is how we're integrating that. We're doing that at the network level, so it's how we're appearing with different service providers, bringing that in integrating that, I'm offering it to them as a solution. What we try tio, we try to try position ourselves is really it's the same experience, regardless of where we're placing it. Consumption. Workload doesn't know whether it's inside our data centers, whether we're talking one of the public cloud platforms or even on premise. So we have quite a few customers that still have significant presence on premises because that's right for their business, depending on on what they're doing, especially some of the research scientists. >> So you've got to deliver flexibility in your architecture, and you talk a lot about software to find you guys made a big move to software to find, you know, a couple years ago, actually, maybe discuss how that fits in to how you're servicing advanced another client? >> Sure. So you know, IBM Storage has embraced multi Cloud for several years. So our solutions. While, of course, they work with IBM, Cloud and IBM cloud private work with Amazon. They work with azure Google Cloud and in fact, some are products. For example, the versus stack not only is advanced using it, but we've got pry forty or fifty public, small, medium sized cloud providers that our public references for the vs Tag and Spectrum Protect you Know which is our backup product Number one in the Enterprise. Back up space Expect from detectives Got at least three hundred cloud providers. Medium, small and big. Who offered the engine underneath for their backup is a service is spectrum protect, So we make sure that weather PR transparent cloud tearing our cyber resiliency technology. What we doing? Backup archive object storage works with essentially all cloud providers. That way, someone like James A. CSP MSP can leverage our products. And we, like I said, we have tons of public records around versus Stack for that, but so can an enterprise. And in fact, I saw survey recently that it was done in Europe and in North America that when you look at a roughly two billion US size revenue and up the average company of that sizing up, we use five different public cloud riders at one time. Where that it be due to legal reasons whether that be procurement. You know, the Web is really the Internet. And, yeah, Cloud is really just It's been around for twenty some years. So in bigger accounts, guess what is now involved Procurement Well, we love that you did that deal with IBM club, but you are going to get a competitive quote now from Amazon and Microsoft, right? So that's driven it legal's driven it. Certain countries, right? The data needs to stay in that country, even if your cloud if eyeing it, it's so to speak. So if the clap water doesn't have a data center there, guess what? Another geographer used different. And then you, of course, still have some large entities that still allow regional buying pattern so they'll have three or four different cloud providers that air quote certified by corporate. And then you could use whichever one you want, so we make sure that we could take advantage of that. Wade and IBM. We ride the wave, We don't fight the way. >> So you've got in that situation. You these multi cloud you got different AP eyes, You get different frameworks potty, you abstract all that complexity you got, Francisco coming at it from a networking standpoint, I b m. Now with Red Hat is good. Be a big player in that that world. VM where What do you guys do? James, in terms of of simplifying all that multi cloud complexity >> for people. I think some of it is actually the mystifying on its engaging with our partners to understand what the proposition is on, how we can develop that on a line, that to mind your own business, but more importantly, to the needs of our customers. We've got some really, really talented technicians worked within within advance, and we've got a number of different forums that allow them to feed back their ideas. But we've got the alignments between those partners and and some of those communities, so that we can have an open discussion on drive. Some of that thinking forward about ultimately see engaging with customers. So the customers feedback is key on how we shape and deliver no need service to them, but also to the service to other customers. We have a number of customers that are very similar, but they may work in different spaces, some somewhere even competitive. So we have to tread that line very safe, very carefully and safely. But it is. It's a good one to one relationship between the client service managers, technical technicians. We have inside business having that to complete three sixty communication is key, but that's that's that's really the bottom takes. Its creation >> came like youto dig into security for us a little bit. You know, I think we surpassed a couple of years ago. I'm not going to go to the cloud to it because it's not secure to Oh, I understand it's time for me to least reevaluate meant security and, most likely, you know, manage service fighters. Public clouds are probably more secure than what I had in my data center, but if I've got multiple environment, there's a lot of complexity there. So how do you traverse that? Make sure that you've got a comprehensive security practice, not just all these point solutions for security all over the place. >> Ah, so that's that comes onto visibility. So its visibility understanding where all the control points are within a given infrastructure on how the landscape looks. So we were working quite closely with a number actually of key Cisco and IBM partners, as well as IBM and Cisco themselves directly tohave a comprehensive offering that allows us to position to our customers. You used to once upon a time you had one game, right? So we need it is from good security on your Internet. Facing viable For now, you might have a ten. Twenty, thirty of those. We need tohave consistent policies across those. We need to understand how they're performing, but also potentially, if there's any attempt attack vector on one of them. How that how someone is trying to looking to compromise that so centralized intelligence on That's where we start to look at my eye operations to gather all that information. The long gone are the days where you have twenty people sharing a room just reading streams. Those twenty people now need thio. See reams and reams of information instantly. Something needs to be called up to them. They could make a decision quickly on Active planet on DH. That's really where we we're positioning ourselves in the market to differentiate. I'm working with key part, Mr >> Never talk about your announcement cadence. Good idea as a big show. Think coming up in a couple weeks cubes gonna be there. Of course. What can we expect from from you guys? >> So we're actually gonna announce on the fifth before things way, want to drive end users and our business partners to storage campus, which is one of the largest campuses at IBM, think we'll have over fifteen pedestals of demo and actually multiple demos because we have such a broad portfolio, from the all flash arrays to our versus stack offering to a whole set of modern data protection management control for storage, which manages in control storage, that's not ours, right? Our competitors storage as well, and, of course, our software to find storage. So we're going to do a big announcement. The focus of that will be around our storage solutions. These air solutions blueprints reference architectures is Jane, you mentioned that use our software and our storage systems that allow reseller or end user to configure systems easily. Think of it as the ultimate wrestling recipe for that German chocolate cake. But it's the perfect recipe. It's tried. It's true, it's tested. It's been on the Food Channel twenty seven times and everybody loves it. That's what we do with our our solutions. Blueprints. We'll have some announcements around modern data protection, and obviously a big focus of IBM. Storage is been in the space. So both storage as an Aye aye platform for aye aye, applications are workloads but also the incorporation of technology into our own storage systems and software. So be having announcements around that on February fifth going into think, which will then be the week after in San Francisco. >> Great. So I'm here and trusted data protection plays into that. Aye, aye. Intelligence machine intelligence. And I'm also hearing header of Geneti multiple platforms. Whether it's your storage, you said our competitors now does that also include sort of the clouds? Fear we're not announcing anything. But you guys have you know, you've seen your pictures. That's azure itt's a w a s. I mean, that continues >> so absolutely so. Whether it be what we do from backup in archive, right, let's take the easy one. So we support not only the protocol of IBM clad object storage which we acquired and allows you to have object storage either on premise or in a cloud in stance e ation. But we also support the s three protocol. So, for example, our spectrum scale software giant scale out. In fact, the two fastest supercomputers world you spectrum scale over four hundred fifty petabytes running on spectrum scale, and they continue their to an object store that supports us three. Or it can tear toe IBM clad object stories through that IBM clad object storage customer. That's great for using the S three protocol. You, Khun, Tear to that as well. That's just one example. Same thing we do for cyber resiliency. So from a cyber resents me perspective, we could do things with any cloud vendor oven air cat air gap, right? And so you could do that, eh? With tape. But you could also do that with the clouds. So if your cloud is your backup archive replication repository, then you can always roll back to a known good copy. You don't have to pay the ransom writer. When you clean up the malware, you can roll back to a known good copy, and we provide that across all of the platforms in a number of ways. Our protect family, our new products, a safeguard copy for the main friend that we announced October. So all that allows us to be multi cloud resiliency as well as how do we connect a multi cloud backup archive automated tearing all kinds of clouds, whether the IBM cloud and, of course, I'm a shareholder. So I love that, but at the same time were realistic. Lots of people use Amazon Google Azar. And like I said, there's thousands of mid two small cloud providers all over the world, and we support them, too. We engage with everyone. >> What about SAS? You know, that's one of the questions we've been trying to squint through and understand is because when you talk about five cloud providers is obviously infrastructures of service. And then there's their service providers like like Advanced. And then there's like a gazillion SAS Companies >> write a lot of data >> in there and a lot of data in there. How should we think about, you know, protecting that data? Securing that data is that sort of up to the SAS vendor, and thou shalt not touch. Or should that be part of the scope of AH, storage company? Well, so what we do >> is we engage with the SAS vendor, so we have a number of different sass coming is, in fact, one of them was on the Cube two years ago with us. They were startup in the cyber security space and all of its delivered over SAS. So what they do is in that case, the use our flash system product line, they get the performance they need to deliver south. They want no bottlenecks because obviously you have to go over the network when you're doing SAS Andi. Also, what they do is data encryption at rest. So when the data is brought in because we have on our flash arrays capability and most of our product line especially the flash systems to have no performance hit on encrypt their decrypt because its hardware embedded, they're able to have the data at rest encrypted for all their customers. That gives them a level of security when it's at rest on their site. At the same time, we've given the right performance. They need tohave soft reserve, so we engage with all we pry have three hundred, four hundred different SAS companies who are the actual software vendor and their deployment model. This software's interest, by the way, we do that as well as I mentioned, over three hundred cloud providers today have a backup is a service and the engine ease their spectrum. Protect or spectrum protect. Plus, but they may call it something else. In fact, we just had a public reference out from Silver String, which is out in the UK, and all they do is cyber resiliency. Backup in archive. That's their service. They have their own product, but then spectrum Protect and Spectrum Check plus is the engine underneath their Prada. So that's an example. In this case, the backup is a service, which, I would argue is not infrastructure, but more of an application. But then true what you call real application providers like cyber security vendors, we have a vendor who in fact, does something for all of the universities and colleges. United States. They have about eight thousand of them, including the junior colleges, and they run all their bookstores. So when you place an order, all their air NPR, everything they do is from this SAS vendor that's based in there in the Northeast. And they've got, like I said, about a thousand colleges and universities in the U. S. And Canada, and they offer this if you will bookstore as a sass service and the students use it. University uses it. And, of course, the bookstores are designed to, you know, make a little money for the university, and they all use that so that's another example. And they use are flash systems as well. And then they back up that data internally with spectrum protectors. They obviously it's the financial data as well as the inventory of all of these book stores all over the United States at the collegiate >> level right now. James Way gotta wrap, but just sort of give you the final word. UK specialist, right? So Brexit really doesn't affect you. Is that a fair statement? >> Uh, we'll do? Yes. >> How so? >> I think it's too early to tell. No one really knows. I think that's all the debates are about. AJ's trying to understand that on DH for us. We're just watching and observing. >> Staying focused on your customers, obviously. So no predictions as to what's going to happen. I was not from a weeks ago. I got hurt both sides. You know, it's definitely gonna happen, All right, Not happen, but okay, again give you the last word. You know? What's your focus? Over the next twelve eighteen months? >> Eso all our focus is really about visibility, So they they they've touched on that. We're talking about security for customers. Understanding whether data is whether exposure point saw. That's our keep. Keep focusing on DH versus stack on dh thie IBM store wise product underpin all of those offerings that we have on. That will continue to be to be so forward. >> Guys. Great to see you. Thanks so much for coming on the Cube and our pleasure hosting you. Thanks. Appreciate, Really welcome. Alright, Keep right, everybody. We'll be back. Day Volante was stew Minutemen from Cisco live in Barcelona. >> No.

Upbeat techno music >> Live, from Barcelona Spain, it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hey, everyone. Welcome back to The Cube's exclusive coverage, here in Barcelona, Spain, for Cisco Live Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier. With hosts this week: Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman, here all for three days. So, we're wrapping up Cisco Live 2019, here in Europe. Guys, we're breaking it down. We had some great editorial segments, where we unpacked everything here. But, as we look back over the show, I want to get your observations and insights into, kind of what's going on with Cisco, the secret formula around why DevNet- their developer program; which also has Devnet Create, which is cloud native- is growing very rapidly. Huge resonance with the customer base in Cisco. It's created a revitalization of Cisco, as a company. And you can see that permeating throughout the organization with their branding, how the teams are organized, and they're engineering their products. Is this the future model for all infrastructure companies that don't have a cloud? And why is that successful? And then other observations. Guys, we'll start with DevNet. The very successful program, led by Susie Wee, Senior Vice President and CTO, executing flawlessly how to transform a community, without killing the old to bring in the new. Stu. >> Yeah, John, it's been fascinating to watch. We've talked about the ground effort, a lot of hard work by a small team, build a community. Last year, over 500,000. We hear they're at 560,000 people using this tool. Four and a half years ago, you know, Cisco- mostly a hardware company. It really- what I've seen over the last year or two, they were talking about software, but I've really seen deliverables here. You talk about CloudCenter Suite, you talk about the DNA Center platform; if they're a hardware company, there's a disconnect between what's going on in the DevNet zone, and what's happening in the company. But, we've seen rallying around software solutions. I've heard from the partnering system, from the customers: this isn't Cisco of a few years ago. Very fragmented, lots of lines of businesses, lots of different things. I remember back when Chambers announced, like, "oh, we've got, you know, 37 different adjacencies we're going to go into." No. Now it's: solution suites and platforms and, you know, DevNet- it is a unifying force of what they're doing. That's a great term, John. Love it. And see, that transformation of being a software company, that DevNet set some of the groundwork, and we heard the CIO of Cisco saying that, you know, security and the developer activity, are his partners in crime. Helping him, driving change, and... >> And they did a nice clever play on words: Data Centered. And that's kind of a shot across the bough of the classic data center, which shows it is a cloud world. And data is a center part of it. And, I think the API-centric economy's certainly doing it. But, Dave, I want to get your thoughts, because you asked a question to Susie Wee of DevNet- a very important question Other companies couldn't be successful with developer programs. Cisco has been. What's the secret formula? Well, I asked Amanda Whaley, who's her right-hand woman around what's going on, and she said, "well, there's no secret formula..." Guess what. There is a secret formula. They're being humble. But seems to be content- seems to be the unifying force of the community. They understood the need, they saw the future around cloud native and API's, being a very important connection tissue- connective tissue, for this cloud native world, and an upstream path for Cisco. They understood the future, knew the need, and they provided great content. The sessions and the education are open, inclusive, very education oriented. But, conversations with their peers have been key. TheCUBE's been here, talkin' to... They treat everyone the same, not the big pitches. Real authentic and genuine content that allowed people to learn and grow, and connect with others. To me, I think that is kind of- this is one of my observations. Your thoughts, Dave, on that. >> Yeah, so... First of all, there is a secret formula. And, this is the new blueprint, or the blueprint that infrastructure companies should be following. Cisco's clearly leading there. I think it's content and community. And, they're used their programmability, of their infrastructure, and they've socialized that. They've developed the technology. They say big companies can't innovate; DevNet is a real solid innovation. And it's- we witnessed all week, people coming in, training, learning; these are network engineers. They're learning new skills. They're learning how to be developers. And that is, to me, a huge innovation in business model, in technology. It's creating a flywheel for them. So, they've created- they've come up with the idea, that the network is a data platform. And it's now, also, become an application development platform. On which, they're deploying applications all over the place. Edge, we heard applications being deployed in police vehicles! And so, this is a very important trend, and from what I can tell, they're way ahead of other infrastructure companies: HP, I don't see this, they talk that game. Dell EMC; we talked about code. You know, IBM trying to make it happen with Bluemix. Oracle owns Java, and it still sort of struggles to own the development, developer marketplace. >> So, Dave, I love what you say there. I saw Jack Welch speak a number of years ago, and he's like, "eh, people always tell me all the time that big companies can't innovate." He's like, "well, maybe big companies, but what are companies made up of? Companies are made up of people, and people can innovate." And I think that's- you know, the key there is, it was very people-focused. Absolutely, content. When you talk about what were the big sessions here: oh, they're doin' Java, they're doin' kubernetes. It's like, okay, wait: is there a connection to Cisco products? Absolutely. Is it a product pitch in a product training? There's plenty of that going here! People need that. People built their careers out of Cisco. But this new career? A big question question I had coming in, is: it's a multi-cloud world, you know... Infrastructure, developer, and everything. Cisco's a piece of that. You know, how do they make sure that they get- sticking this with them, and helping them to build their career, and move forward. There's going to be some nice activity, there. And, you get a good glow, and you know, Cisco makes themselves relevant in those communities. >> The other observation that I saw, and I want to get your reactions to it, guys, is: that we saw Scale- and we talk about this all the time in theCUBE. Scale is now table stakes, to compete in this global landscape. But, complexity with multi-cloud, and these things, is there. Every major inflection point in the industry- abstraction layers and software, and/or hardware advances- certainly, Moore's Law kicks in and helps that. But, it's been software abstractions that have really moved the needle, because that's where you can have complexity, and still remove it; from an integration standpoint, from a consumption standpoint. This seems to be- Cisco's buying into this, across the companies, Stu- software. Not just hardware. They've coupled it, but they all work together. This is the magic of DevNet, the magic of API's. It's the magic of an internet operating system. Your thoughts. >> Yeah, and look- we talked to a number of the companies that were acquired by Cisco over the last few years, and I think those are helping to drive some of the change. You have, of course, APT is the big one, Duo in security; companies that were born in the cloud, and helping to move that change along the way, and John, as you said, that unifying factor of, "we're rallying," it's not just, the new Chip Stubbs standing up on the- and saying, "you know, okay, we spent millions of dollars in developing this thing, everybody go out and sell that." It's now- there's co-creation, you're seeing that evolution of that partner ecosystem. And, it's a challenging change, but Cisco is, you know, moving in the right direction. >> It starts at the top, too, Stu. And, I wanted to make a point of- we learned, also- and this is learning for me. Chuck Robbins is behind all this, okay. The CEO has identified DevNet, and said, "this is strategic to our company." All new products now, that are introduced at Cisco, will have API support and a DevNet component. This is a radical change from Cisco of the past. This means that every solution, out of the box- literally- and software, will have that in there. So, with API's and DNA Center, those are two areas to me, that I think will really be a tell sign. If Cisco can execute on the DNA Center, and bring in API's and a DevNet- a real supporting community behind every product; I think the programmable network will be a reality. >> So, help me squint through this. You know, we talk to a lot of people, we go to a lot of shows. We're gettin' the Kool-Aid injection from the DevNet crew here- but, there's real substance. We're going to challenge some of the other companies that we work with. Some of the other infrastructure companies. The IT business, it's like the NFL. It's a copycat league. So, HP is going to say, "oh, we got ATI's." EMC, Dell: they're going to say the same thing. But, what's different here... I mean, clearly, you see it in the evidence of being able to cultivate a community of developers. >> Of course. >> Is it because of the network? >> No, it's management. HP has people- I've talked to them on theCUBE- that believe in cloud native. The company just doesn't fund them properly. They've got the smallest booth at the events, they're always, you know, a partner booth. They're part of an adjunct of something else. HP and Tony O'Neary, I don't think is funding open cloud native... Or certainly the marketing people, or product people, are not funding developers. >> Well, certainly not to the degree that Cisco is, obviously. >> There's no physical signs of any kind. We go to all the shows. >> What about Dell? What about Dell EMC? >> I think Dell EMC is kind of keeping it open, but there's no coherent group. I can't, in my mind's eye, point to one group, saying, "wow, they're kickin' ass." >> They got bigger problems now. It's how you consolidate the portfolio... >> What is- Michael Dell's state of goal, is for Dell to be the leading infrastructu&re company out there. There's a big hardware component of that. Absolutely, they participate in open source, they have some developer- API's are great, and they love standards. But, you know, this is a software movement. >> Yeah. >> Infrastructure's code is where they're going. VMWare, you know, they've made some pushes and moves, in this space... >> With developers? >> Not big developers... >> But, where are the developers? They had their operators on the IT side, so- back to Dell for a second. I think Dell Boomi is one signal, I've seen some sign there. But then- and that's still relatively new, but there's no one- there's no DevNet for Dell. On VMWare... >> People Labs is someone that is helping customers learn to code, do that kind of activity. But, you know, broadly across the Dell family, I haven't seen as much. >> I think VMware has a good ecosystem. I think they have good technical people. I don't think they need a developer program, per se. I think they need more of an operator program. I think that's VMWorld. You go to VMWorld and you see a lot of the partners, and how they integrate in. >> So, who are the favorites in the developer world? Obviously, Microsoft, and MUS... >> I mean, to me, it's Amazon- as a kid in a candy store, if you're a developer, you're all over Amazon. They have great stuff, they're always introducing new candy for the kids, all the time. New services; Amazon, number one. Azure, I think- not so much, in my mind. I think it's a lot of legacy, there, with Azure. But, they are- they're puttin' up the numbers on the profit, and you know my stand on Azure. I think Azure's sandbagging the numbers. But, the growth's there, it's going to be a matter of time. I think, Azure, is on the path. And they have the legacy developer program, world class, Microsoft. Microsoft is in the Cisco kind of wheelhouse. If they can transform their existing developer community, to be cloud native, they hit a home run. >> Yeah, but, John, you were talking about IT ops, out there; Microsoft does great in that. They've got a lot of big push there. They absolutely- the DotNet developers are there. You go to the Build conference, they play. We go to CUBECon, and a lot of the developer shows, and Microsoft, strongly there... >> No, let me just clarify my point. Let me clarify my point on Microsoft. Yes, they have a pre-existing, huge, development. They've been successful by the core competancy, no doubt. Cisco had a developer community: all networking. So, I think Microsoft has that legacy win, but they have to transform, and go the next level. The question is, do they have that. So- with Azure, I'm saying... >> What about Google? You guys were at the Google Cloud Show last year, we'll be there again in April. >> Yeah, you got to put Google in the mix. No doubt, I mean, no question. And, what about Red Hat? With IBM, on the developer front? >> Yeah, look, when you talk to the developers, and all the- a lot of the training their doing, if you've got LITIC skill sets, you've got a leg up in a lot of these environments. There are a lot of developers. It's not like people at Red Hat- some, are like, "oh wait, 6here's my first hoodie, and I'm going to learn to start code." They're already there. They're in this ecosystem. Red Hat: huge part- everybody we just talked about, Red Hat has a strong piece in there. That's one of the reasons why IBM bought them, Dave, is to help ride that wave. >> That's expensive, but they got the ingredients now. >> Red Hat's- check, I love those guys. Google has a lot of developers. They contribute heavily in open source. But, in terms of a Google community, that's really the CNCF in my mind. I think they're doing great job stewarting CNCF, but there's not a lot of people- users, in the Google ecosystem, they've got tons of developers. And, that's an opportunity for Google, in my opinion. >> Well, let's bring it back to Cisco. So, are we in agreement that they've got a leg up on the other infrastructure competitors... >> Yeah, I do. >> Specifically, as it relates to developers. >> They have a huge leg up, but I think it's even bigger that that. I think that this company is going to skyrocket, if they crack the code on network programmability. They're at the early stages now, you're talking about intro to Python, they give more advanced classes... Give them 24 months, if they continue momentum on DevNet, that's the tipping point, in my mind. Two years, they could own everything, and just be a whole other level company, if they crack the code. 'Cause the network is the value. Payload, network effect, this is the new normal in today's.. >> It's a big challenger. I mean, it's really not- and, the networking companies, for years, haven't been able... The Aristas, and the Junipers, haven't been able to unseed them, as the leader. They still got 60 percent of the marketplace. >> DMWare- DMWare and Cisco. >> DMWare, alright. >> DMWare and Cisco, 'cause DMWare and Amazon, that's a lethal combination. I think that's what I'm going to watch, the frenemy action between DMWare and Cisco. I think that level of where NSX, and what Cisco's trying to do, within ten paces of that working. >> Well, and Outpost is the hybrid infrastructure. Does that eventually become a multi-cloud play? Maybe it's a few years off, but... >> Yeah, absolutely. Look, we've watched- a year ago, we were saying, "okay, Google's a strong partner to Cisco, how 'about AWO's?" Well, they're integrating with kubernetes, they're starting to do more with AWS. It's always an interesting partnership with Amazon. Cisco's got lots of products in the marketplace, they're growing in that environment, but Amazon's learning from everybody and can potentially be a threat down the road to where Cisco is. And, I'd love to see Cisco doing more in the Microsoft space, too. >> We'll be watching Cisco, over the year. We're going to continue to go deep on Cisco. We got the Cisco Live North America Show on the cal... >> San Diego. >> This year in San Diego. So, we'll see theCUBE there, for multiple days, as well. Of course, we'll be following all the traction of software define everything, as the world goes completely cyber, dark, encrypted; whatever it is, we're going to be covering it. Well, thanks for watching. I want to give a shout out to the crew. Good job, guys. Well done. Thanks for watching theCUBE here, in Barcelona. I'm Jeff Furrier with Dave Vellonte, Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the cue covering Sisqo. Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to sunny Barcelona. Everybody watching the Cube, the leader and live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise we hear There's our third day of coverage that Sisqo live. Barcelona David Lot. John Furrier. This here stew Minutemen all week. John, we've been covering this show. Walter Wall like a canon ae is here is a distinguished engineer and product line. CTO for Cisco Analytics. Welcome to the Cube. You see you again. Welcome back to the Cube. I should say thank you very much. So tell us about your role. You're focused right now on malware encryption. We want to get into that, but but set it up with your roll >> first. Well, I'm trying to raise the cost to the bad guy's hiding in your network. I mean, basically it's it. It it's an economics thing because one there's a lot of places for them to hide. And and they they are innovating just as much as we are. And so if I can make it more expensive for them to hide and operate. Then I'm doing my job. And and that means not only using techniques of the past but developing new techniques. You know, Like I said, it's It's really unlike a regular job. I'm not waiting for the hard drive to fail or a power supply to fail. I have an active adversary that's smart and well funded. So if I if I shipped some innovation, I forced them to innovate and vice versa. >> So you're trying to reduce their our ally and incentives. >> I want to make it too expensive for them to do business. >> So what's the strategy there? Because it's an arms race. Obviously wanted one one. You know, Whitehead over a black hat, kind of continue to do that. Is it decentralized to create more segments? What is the current strategies that you see to make it more complex or less economically viable to just throw resource at a port or whatever? >> There's sort of two dimensions that are driving change one. You know they're trying to make a buck. Okay? And and, you know, we saw the ransomware stuff we saw, you know, things that they did to extract money from a victim. Their latest thing now is they've They've realized that Ransomware wasn't a recurring revenue stream for them. Right? And so what's called crypto jacking is so they essentially have taking the cost structure out of doing crypto mining. You know, when you do crypto mining, you'll make a nickel, maybe ten cents, maybe even twenty cents a day. Just doing this. Mathematical mining, solving these puzzles. And if you had to do that on your own computer, you'd suck up all this electricity and thing. You'd have some cost structure, right and less of a margin. But if you go on, you know, breach a thousand computers, maybe ten thousand, maybe one hundred thousand. Guess what, right you? Not one you're hiding. So guess what? Today you make a nickel tomorrow, you make another nickel. So, you know, if you if you go to the threat wall here, you'd be surprised this crypto mining activity taking place here and nobody knows about it. We have it up on the threat wall because we can detect its behavior. We can't see the actual payload because all encrypted. But we have techniques now. Advanced Analytics by which we can now call out its unique behaviour very distinctly. >> Okay, so you're attacking this problem with with data and analytics. Is that right? What? One of the ingredients of your defense? >> Yeah. I mean, they're sort of Ah, three layer cake There. You first. You have? You know, I always say all telemetry is data, but not all data. Is telemetry. All right? So when you when you go about looking at an observation or domain, you know, Inhumans, we have sight. We have hearing these air just like the network or the endpoint. And there's there's telemetry coming out of that, hopefully from the network itself. Okay, because it's the most pervasive. And so you have this dilemma tree telling you something about the good guys and the bad guys and you, you perform synthesis and analytics, and then you have an analytical outcome. So that's sort of the three layer cake is telemetry, analytics, analytical outcome. And what matters to you and me is really the outcome, right? In this case, detecting malicious activity without doing decryption. >> You mentioned observation. Love this. We've been talking to Cuba in the past about observation space. Having an observation base is critical because you know, people don't write bomb on a manifest and ship it. They they hide it's it's hidden in the network, even their high, but also the meta data. You have to kind extract that out. That's kind of where you get into the analytics. How does that observation space gets set up? Happened? Someone creating observation special? They sharing the space with a public private? This becomes kind of almost Internet infrastructure. Sound familiar? Network opportunity? >> Yeah. You know, there's just three other. The other driver of change is just infrastructure is changing. Okay. You mean the past? Go back. Go back twenty years, you had to rent some real estate. You gotto put up some rocks, some air conditioning, and you were running on raw iron. Then the hyper visors came. Okay, well, I need another observation. A ll. You know, I meet eyes and ears on this hyper visor you got urbanity is now you've got hybrid Cloud. You have even serve Ellis computing, right? These are all things I need eyes and ears. Now, there that traditional methods don't don't get me there so again, being able to respect the fact that there are multiple environments that my digital business thrives on. And it's not just the traditional stuff, you know, there's there's the new stuff that we need to invent ways by which to get the dilemma tree and get the analytical >> talkabout this dynamic because we're seeing this. I think we're just both talking before we came on camera way all got our kind of CS degrees in the eighties. But if you look at the decomposition of building blocks with a P, I's and clouds, it's now a lot of moving to spare it parts for good reasons, but also now, to your point, about having eyes and ears on these components. They're all from different vendors, different clouds. Multi cloud creates Mohr opportunities. But yet more complexity. Software abstractions will help manage that. Now you have almost like an operating system concept around it. How are you guys looking at this? I'll see the intent based networking and hyper flex anywhere. You seeing that vision of data being critical, observation space, etcetera. But if you think about holistically, the network is the computer. Scott McNealy once said. Yeah, I mean, last week, when we are this is actually happening. So it's not just cloud a or cloud be anon premise and EJ, it's the totality of the system. This is what's happening >> ways. It's it's absolutely a reality. And and and the sooner you embrace that, the better. Because when the bad guys embrace it verse, You have problems, right? And and you look at even how they you know how they scale techniques. They use their cloud first, okay, that, you know their innovative buns. And when you look at a cloud, you know, we mentioned the eyes and ears right in the past. You had eyes and ears on a body you own. You're trying to put eyes in here on a body you don't own anymore. This's public cloud, right? So again, the reality is somebody you know. These businesses are somewhere on the journey, right? And the journey goes traditional hyper visor. You have then ultimately hybrid multi clouds. >> So the cost issue comes back. The play of everything sass and cloud. It's just You start a company in the cloud versus standing up here on the check, we see the start of wave from a state sponsored terrorist organization. It's easy for me to start a threat. So this lowers the cost actually threat. So that lowers the IQ you needed to be a hacker. So making it harder also helps that this is kind of where you're going. Explain this dynamic because it's easy to start threats, throw, throw some code at something. I could be in a bedroom anywhere in the world. Or I could be a group that gets free, open source tools sent to me by a state and act on behalf of China. Russia, >> Of course, of course, you know, software, software, infrastructures, infrastructure, right? It's It's the same for the bad guys, the good guys. That's sort of the good news and the bad news. And you look at the way they scale, you know, techniques. They used to stay private saying, You know, all of these things are are valid, no matter what side of the line you sit on, right? Math is still math. And again, you know, I just have Ah, maybe a fascination for how quickly they innovate, How quickly they ship code, how quickly they scale. You know, these botnets are massive, right? If you could get about that, you're looking at a very cloud infrastructure system that expands and contracts. >> So let's let's talk a little more about scale. You got way more good guys on the network than bad guys get you. First of all, most trying to do good and you need more good guys to fight the bad guys up, do things. Those things like infrastructure is code dev ops. Does that help the good guys scale? And and how so? >> You know it does. There's a air. You familiar with the concept called The Loop Joe? It was It was invented by a gentleman, Colonel John Boyd, and he was a jet fighter pilot. Need taught other jet fighter pilots tactics, and he invented this thing called Guadalupe and it's it's o d a observe orient decide. And at all right. And the quicker you can spin your doodle ooh, the more disoriented your adversary ISS. And so speed speed matters. Okay. And so if you can observe Orient, decide, act faster, then your adversary, you created almost a knowledge margin by which they're disoriented. And and the speed of Dev ops has really brought this two defenders. They can essentially push code and reorient themselves in a cycle that's frankly too small of a window for the adversary to even get their bearings right. And so speed doesn't matter. And this >> changing the conditions of the test, if you will. How far the environment, of course, on a rabbit is a strategy whether it's segmenting networks, making things harder to get at. So in a way, complexity is better for security because it's more complex. It costs more to penetrate complex to whom to the adversary of the machine, trying very central data base. Second, just hack in, get all the jewels >> leave. That's right, >> that's right. And and again. You know, I think that all of this new technology and and as you mentioned new processes around these technologies, I think it's it's really changing the game. The things that are very deterministic, very static, very slow moving those things. They're just become easy targets. Low cost targets. If you will >> talk about the innovation that you guys are doing around the encryption detecting malware over encrypted traffic. Yeah, the average person Oh, encrypted traffic is totally secure. But you guys have a method to figure out Mel, where behavior over encrypted, which means the payload can't be penetrated or it's not penetrated. So you write full. We don't know what's in there but through and network trav explain what you're working on. >> Yeah. The paradox begins with the fact that everybody's using networks now. Everything, even your thermostat. You're probably your tea kettle is crossing a network somewhere. And and in that reality, that transmission should be secure. So the good news is, I no longer have to complain as much about looking at somebody's business and saying, Why would you operate in the clear? Okay, now I say, Oh, my God, you're business is about ninety percent dot Okay, when I talked about technology working well for everyone, it works just as well for the bad guys. So I'm not going to tell this this business start operating in the clear anymore, so I can expect for malicious activity. No, we have to now in for malicious activity from behavior. Because the inspection, the direct inspection is no longer available. So that we came up with a technique called encrypted Traffic analytics. And again, we could have done it just in a product. But what we did that was clever was we went to the Enterprise networking group and said, if I could get of new telemetry, I can give you this analytical outcome. Okay? That'll allow us to detect malicious activity without doing decryption. And so the network as a sensor, the routers and switches, all of those things are sending me this. Richard, it's Tellem aji, by which I can infer this malicious activity without doing any secret. >> So payload and network are too separate things contractually because you don't need look at the payload network. >> Yeah. I mean, if you want to think about it this way, all encrypted traffic starts out unencrypted. Okay, It's a very small percentage, but everything in that start up is visible. So we have the routers and switches are sending us that metadata. Then we do something clever. I call it Instead of having direct observation, I need an observational derivative. Okay, I need to see its shape and size over time. So at minute five minute, fifteen minute thirty, I can see it's timing, and I can model on that timing. And this is where machine learning comes in because it's It's a science. That's just it's day has come for behavioral science, so I could train on all this data and say, If this malware looks like this at minute, five minute, ten minute fifteen, then if I see that exact behavior mathematically precise behaviour on your network, I can infer that's the same Mallory >> Okay, And your ability you mentioned just you don't have to decrypt that's that gives you more protection. Obviously, you're not exposed, but also presumably better performance. Is that right, or is that not affected? >> A lot? A lot better performance. The cryptographic protocols themselves are becoming more and more opaque. T L s, which is one of the protocols used to encrypt all of the Web traffic. For instance, they just went through a massive revision from one dot two two version one not three. It is faster, It is stronger. It's just better. But there's less visible fields now in the hitter. So you know things that there's a term being thrown around called Dark Data, and it's getting darker for everyone. >> So, looking at the envelope, looking at the network of fact, this is the key thing. Value. The network is now more important than ever explain why? Well, >> it connects everything right, and there's more things getting connected. And so, as you build, you know you can reach more customers. You can You can operate more efficiently, efficiently. You can. You can bring down your operational costs. There's so many so many benefit. >> FBI's also add more connection points as well. Integration. It's Metcalfe's law within a third dimension That dimension data value >> conductivity. I mean, the message itself is growing exponentially. Right? So that's just incredibly exciting. >> Super awesome topic. Looking forward to continuing this conversation. Great. Great. Come. Super important, cool and relevant and more impactful. A lot more action happening. Okay, Thanks for sharing that. Great. It's so great to have you on a keeper. Right, everybody, we'll be back to wrap Day three. Francisco live Barcelona. You're watching the Cube. Stay right there.

>> Live, from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona everybody, this is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. I'm Dave Vellante with my co-hosts. Stu Miniman, John Furrier has been here all week. Day three coverage of Cisco Live!, Barcelona. Cisco Live EMEA, and R. We learned the other day, add R for Russia. Kaustubh Das is back. KD is the vice president of product management for data center at Cisco and he's joined by Kevin Egan who is the director of the computer systems group for data center. Also from Cisco, gents, good to see you, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> Great to be here. >> Thanks for having us. >> KD, Data center was a real focus of the announcements this week. The data center is exploding to a lot of different places. What's going on in the group? >> It's been a terrific weekend, you're right. Data center was a core of a lot of the announcements this week, and as we kicked off the key note with this concept that the data center is no longer centered. It's really, the data moves to the edges, the data center is moving to the edges. We had a lot of announcements around Hyperflex, Hyperflex anywhere, this product that we've been innovating on like monsters. Within a very short time, gone from a brand-new product on the market to a magic quarter liter with Gartner, and really kind of doing a lot of industry firsts with that. That's been a big focus. We had a lot of announcements with our technology partners, because we not only innovate within Cisco, but we work with Pure and NetApp and Citrix and Intel Optane and Nvidia to bring products to the market that get the richness of their innovation and our innovation together. The other big focus has been all about programmability. As the world becomes much more programmable, focus devops automation, it's been around Intersight and programmability and taking that to the next level. >> Interesting. So of course we always talk about shipping five megabytes of code as opposed to shipping petabytes through a straw into the god box. But so Kevin, programmability's a key theme here, of course we're in the devnet zone. We had Susie Wee on yesterday and she was just talking about the evolution of Cisco infrastructure and how early on you guys made the decision. Let's make all this stuff programmable. And that was sort of a game changer, your thoughts. >> Yeah, no it's been amazing. The growth of just Cisco devnet right? We've got half a million developers now developing against our SDKs, our devops, our opportunities all across our Cisco platforms. We've got thousands of Cisco resources doing work on that, producing those libraries, producing that, those sample sets of code and contributing to the communities. And today our customers are using it in a way that they've never really done. Previously it was a sort of a fix because vendor tools weren't getting it done. And now they're using these automation tools to really do every day tasks out to the mass, to reduce the complexity for their teams and reduce the burden. And then of course to have that repeatability and that security and that compliance aspect and it's been amazing the explosion. >> Yeah. The simplicity reminds me back you know the earliest days of UCS, you know UCS was built for that wave of virtualization and as KD has talked with us this week already about some of the partnerships that you've built. The wave of converged infrastructure, UCS really dominated in that marketplace, but here now we talk about AI with some of your partners, you talk about programmability, it's like that's not the Cisco UCS that I remember launching. So maybe give us the updates specifically that was announced this week. Where the platform has gone in more recent days. >> So I can start maybe, >> Yeah, absolutely. >> UCS came up with this concept of everything needs to be programmable, everything needs to be an API. And maybe we were a little ahead of our time, we conceived of this in 2007, got the product out in 09 and really from the very genesis of the program, of the UCS program, it's been a programmable platform, it's been everything's an API. The UI makes calls to the API, our SDKs make calls to the APIs. So that's been the core platform and in some ways it feels like the industry is coming to where we thought it would come to a little bit earlier. So they, this whole concept of infrastructure's code, softly defined what do we want to call it, this was core and germane to the product itself. What we've done lately is, it's taken that policy that we're encapsulated and taken out all of the silver into the fabric for scalability, we've taken that now into the cloud. And what that does is it leads to that velocity of innovation becoming even higher, the ability to create new and unique use cases becomes higher, the ability to conceive it becomes higher. And all of that coupled with where IT is going, which is becoming much more devops, much more around automation. I think those forces are coupling together to create some really unique use cases. >> You said, you gestured take it into the cloud, which is interesting, pointing. What does that mean? Taking it into the cloud? >> So let's speed back a little bit. So what we start off with was listen, a silver's a box, we need to abstract the silver, the personality of the silver out of that box into policy, put it in the fabric. And that allows us to really scale that and give the box different personalities depending upon the workload. What we've done is, we've launched a product called Intersight. Intersight takes that policy and makes it a SAS service, management of the service we want to call it. So now as data moves everywhere, as data centers move everywhere, as our applications no longer become monolithic but become these combinations of little applications communicating across data centers, it allows us to have a centralized dashboard for our infrastructure that we can access, because it's in the cloud, from anywhere. And because it's in the cloud it can kind of get, get that innovation wheel turning much faster. It's just been game changing, and obviously there's other things that can happen once you do that. You can have proactive guidance coming down from the cloud, you can have golden images come down from the cloud, you can do workload specific settings. So there's a lot of new areas that it opens up once you, >> Analytics, right? >> Analytics. >> Machine intelligence. >> So we've got the takeover happening in the devnet zone right now, so focus on the data center, everybody's got t shirts and I think it says Hyperflex on them, big announcement this week about Hyperflex anywhere. Kevin you know I think that when people heard HCI, they often picture a box, or it's a group of boxes it's in a rack, it's all that and everything, and the thing is as an analyst I was poking at it, it's like "well we virtualized a lot of the stuff "and we put it in a new form factor." That's great to modernize the platform but how do we make it cloud native, how does it fit into a hybrid and multi cloud world, and it feels like we're reaching that point now. So help us connect the dots as to how, what HCI was fits into this hybrid and multi cloud world today. >> Absolutely. I mean, HCI when it came out was an alternative to SAN, I mean it was an alternative and it was touting simplicity, touting you know grow with your applications. But really now, with the multi cloud instances that our customers are looking at, they have to have a way to deploy those, a way to connect to those remotely, manage those, monitor those, actually connect that back to the core so that you can take advantage of the analytics that are running at the core and make real time recommendations, make real time adjustments for services and those type of, you know that connectivity is really what we mean by Hyperflex anywhere. It's the evolution of how you deploy, how you manage, and then of course that day two, day five, day one hundred where you're actually making that experience simple for the customers. >> Help us understand exactly, is this, do I just have the backup image in a public cloud, do I actually have similar software stacks, what's the expanse? >> Let me try to unpack that a little bit. I think it's three different vectors that we're doing. So we want as we modernize, and as our customers modernize, they're looking for a much more cloud-like limber, elastic platform. That's the first vector, that's what HCI has done, that's what we've done. And we've actually done it on steroids because we've taken that code-designed hardware and software much like the public cloud guys are doing, but we control that and we can give that to our enterprise customers and our enterprise grade resilient infrastructure. The first thing is that, the second piece of it is what our customers and really our developers and the customers are wanting to do, is to create in one place and deploy in another. So create on the private cloud, deploy in the public cloud, or create in the public cloud, deploy in the private cloud, or actually have an application that bridges the two. So having a homogenous development environment whether it's, and a lot of this is around the container frameworks, whether it's on the public cloud, private cloud. That's key, and what we've done with Hyperflex, and the integrations we've got with our container platform, with open shift, with cloud center, which was again a big announcement this week. That's that second vector, is being able to port applications, develop one place, deploy any place. And the third piece is what we've been talking about all through this segment, which is the ability to now have the cloud drive your infrastructure. Everything's connected, everything's analyzed in the cloud, there's telemetry, there's proactive guidance, there's a common dashboard there's centralized monitoring, there's the ability to deploy, like we did in the key note demonstrating in the key note, multiple different sides spread out across the world, from a cental location. I think that's game changing. >> I'd like to get your take on differentiation. Obviously you guys are biased. Cisco's different, it's better. But I want to hear why. So relative to other infrastructure players, are you, in your words, however you want to describe it more cloud like more programmable, where's the differentiation? >> Go ahead and I'll later on. >> Yeah sure. So basically we started with a foundation of UCS and that foundation, virtualize compute bare metal compute, and of course now hyper-converge, and the reason that it allows us to do things, allows us to Hyperflex anywhere, allows us to have that cloud-based model is because we built that infrastructure around the API from day one. When we started this, that programmatic infrastructure, we were talking to customers, it was stateless it was desired state config, they didn't know what we were talking about. I mean, they had no idea when this came out. But that's the foundation that really allows us to drive the API integrations to our app layers, which is what KD was talking about, and then of course from there to our multi cloud integrations and that's really the foundation that laid, that we laid early on. And that's why all of our UCS platform really enables this cloud integration. >> Yeah, I mean the way I look at it is nobody else has a fully API driven infrastructure. Everything's an API for us, we don't expose APIs after the fact, it is built around, it's an API first infrastructure. And everything is built around them. Whether it's our STKs, our integrations with you know Pop and then Ansible, and those kind of tool sets, our integration with other tool sets that people use. It's all driven through that. The second thing that is different is, we have an emulator, so we can allow our customers to really time travel through the whole process of deployment. I mean, our customers can deploy the infrastructure before the infrastructure hits the loading dock because they can download the UCS emulator. They can actually configure, deploy, build the whole policy on our management platform, test it out, do the what ifs on the emulator. When the equipment shows up, we're ready to go, we are in business, nobody else can do that. And the final thing which is, aside from all of the cloud connected pieces I've talked about, the breadth of Cisco's portfolio spanning from all of our networking assets, our SD WAN assets, our security assets, our collaboration assets, our cloud assets, that breadth gets us to implement use cases for our customers that are just, it's just impossible for anybody else to do. >> We've heard lots of proof points here in the devnote zone specifically from programmability and the automation. I've talked to some service providers here at the show, we've also heard about the journey that enterprise customers are going through to kind of understand that space and learn places here like this. Kevin, I'm sure you're talking to a lot of customers here, maybe if you have examples as to you know the exemplars of who're doing this well, and what people can learn from customers like that. >> Yeah, I mean it's amazing right. In just devnet alone we've got sessions on UCS with Python, STKs, UCS with Powertool, how to integrate with Ansible, these are just becoming common terms, common household terms for our customers. As you go up to enterprise customers, service provider customers, they're using these tools in a day to day manner to do the automation on top of, to really deploy and manage their apps, right, and the way that, I mean, it's exciting, we have customers from all segments of all industry, and they really they use these programmatic, KD's simple example of platform emulator, you don't realize how powerful that is, where you can set that same exact state machine that's in your UCS, you can put it on your laptop, set up all your policies, and then when that gear hits the dock, you are up in hours. Literally we have very large e-commerce sites, they do this, thousands of servers hit it, and in a matter of hours, they've applied those policies and they're up and running. Python, we've got Python, Ruby, Powertool, software developer kits, we've got devops that sit on those, and Ansible, Puppet, Chef, and these are just the automation so if you want to do it yourself, we've got the world class API, nobody else gives you that programmatic API. That's how we built our foundation. If you want Cisco to call those APIs, we have Intersight and we'll make those calls for you. If you just want to do some simple scripting, Powertool. You can automate certain processes, it doesn't have to be the whole end to end. You know you can use all these, it's basically choice to really, what your applications are demanding and what your customers are demanding. >> That's a strong story, one of breadth and depth. We're out of time, but KD I wonder if you could sort of put a bow on Cisco Live! Europe this year, big takeaways from your point of view. >> Listen, we've been innovating like monsters and it's such a terrific week for us to come here, to really touch and feel and listen to our customers and see the delight on their faces as we show them what we've been doing. And this part of the show, day three the devnet takeover, this is where it gets really really real, because now we get to go down to the depths of looking at those APIs, looking at those use cases, getting people to play around with them. So it's just been terrific, I love it. >> I love it too, we're the interview monsters this week. So guys thanks very much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. >> You're welcome. Alright keep it right there everybody, we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE from Cicso Live! In Barcelona. Be right back. (upbeat electronic outro)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE coverage here in Barcelona, Spain, of Cisco Live! Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier, Stuart Miniman here in the DevNet Lounge. We've been here all week, three days of coverage, we're on day three. Our next guest is Mandy Whaley, who's the Senior Director of Developer Experience for Cisco DevNet, CUBE alumna, great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Thanks so much, glad to be here. >> So what a success, we've interviewed you many times. DevNet has now tipped over to the point where over half a million developers in the Cisco ecosystem here, using APIs and cloud-native tools. Upped their game, big time, congratulations. >> Thank you, thank you very much. It's been a very exciting progression since the beginning of DevNet, which was around four and a half years ago. So it's been great to see the community and learn and progress along that way. >> Well, I just want to say, while we're on camera, how proud I am of you guys. Because being there and watching you guys use all your resources and grow this organization to the point where the influence in Cisco has been so massive. You're on the right side of history. All products are now having API, Susie Wee said. So this is now not just a corner group within Cisco, this is now part of the machinery. >> It is, and it's really, we are having APIs across the whole portfolio and up and down the stock, so from the device level up to the controller level, up to the orchestration level. So that's really exciting to see that. And over those years with the progression of DevNet, we've just become more connected into, we're part of our engineering organization, which I think is a great place for a developer group to be, because you have that strong connection to the engineering groups. But just having more and more parts of that portfolio connected in with the developer piece has been really exciting. The other thing that I think has been great about the growth of the community, and what I always notice when we're at Cisco Live!, is that the developer advocates that we have, which are part of my team, it's the people that matter so much. They are really there trying to help people learn, help them move to the next step, and they really care about the community, as much as the community cares about them. And so when we all get together at an event like this, it's fantastic to be able to see that. >> And people are going through the journey, have been there for multiple years now, and new people are coming in at an accelerated rate, the flywheel's going ... >> That's right, yeah. So my first day at Cisco I taught the first Coding for Network Engineers class that we offered at Cisco Live! many years ago. And what's great is that I've seen some of the people who were in that first class, and they're back here today. And now they're doing Kubernetes and Istio and really advanced stuff, and they've really taken that basics that they got and just ran with it, and added more skills, which is great to see. But then we're also seeing just as many new people coming in and that kind of snowball effect of the community scaling up and helping each other and kind of pushing the boundaries. >> Mandy, we've always seen education has always been a strong foundational piece of Cisco Live! I remember back, first time I came to Cisco Live! was over a decade ago, and people were getting their CCIE certification. Give us a little bit of the breadth and depth, because, you know, it's my fourth time in the DevNet Zone, it's always expanding, as you said Kubernetes and Istio and Java were overflowing sessions here, so ... >> Yes, absolutely, so the way that we structure the learning in the DevNet Zone, we have a big focus on hands-on. We have small group workshops, where people are coding during the workshop, and those are many times just completely overflowing, people standing around, soaking it up, sitting on the floor coding. You know, it's been great to see that. But the main things that we have, we have the workshops, and then we have bigger classroom sessions, which cover concepts or even things like culture change, like Dev and Network and Ops working together. Right, like kind of extending on those topics. And then we have a lot of demos going on around the Zone, too. We've got a couple new things this year. One of those is our Start Now zone. This is a new zone within the Zone that we created this time. And it was for the people who said, "I'm really new, I haven't programmed in a while, "I'm not sure if a full-on developer workshop "is right for me, "I want a place to start." So we called it Start Now. And what's going on in that zone is all day, every day, the Intro to Coding, Intro to REST APIs workshops running back-to-back. And every single one of those sessions has been booked full and waitlisted full for the whole week. So that's been great, to see that many people getting started. And then we also have something really new in that zone, which is one-to-one mentoring. So we wanted to give people a chance to come in and say, "I work in data center networking, "I don't know where to start. "Help me, point me in the way, and get me started." So we have people from our advocacy team there, people from the wider DevNet team, people from all across Cisco there as mentors, helping them get started with, like, "This is a great API for you to start with, "these are kind of the basic skills you want to dive into." And just having those conversations a lot of times gives people the push to kind of jump into these new topics. >> What are some of the highlights in the DevNet Zone? Some great demos, the workshops, the classrooms are key. But there's also other demos-- >> Yeah, there's one demo that's been really popular, and it's actually an augmented reality demo, and it uses our DNA Center networking APIs. And what it does, is you can scan a wireless access point, and it will recognize it, and then, using the APIs, bring up all the information about that access point. You can also directionally find where is the nearest access point to me? Like, if you're an engineer who maybe needs to fix something. And then the other thing that's cool is you can turn it on, and in an augmented reality way, see the signal strength overlayed over the space that you're in. So you can troubleshoot and find issues. And our goal with building that demo was, when you think about networking APIs, typically you think about maybe dashboards, automations, which are fantastic and do a lot for you, but we also like to push the boundaries on the kinds of apps that people could think about building, and that augmented reality one is a great one to show that. >> What are the popular sessions? We've seen some overflow, what's getting traction? What's the key booked sessions? >> So we've had two big launches at Cisco Live! overall this week around IOT and also the new ACI data center networking, ACI Anywhere announcements. So the sessions related to those have, of course, been very popular, people jumping in. The Kubernetes, the Istio sessions have been very popular, DNA Center, a lot of people like skilling up on those APIs. And then a lot of the things that are, getting started with Python, learning about different libraries that are relevant to the network automation world. All of those have been really popular, as well. >> Some of the feedback I've gotten from the community is, of course there's the great stuff here, but it's what you do year-round. So the labs are available all the time, I know there's more events and just ongoing learning. Maybe you could share a little bit beyond that. >> Yeah, so we spend a lot of time trying to connect this experience to the online, because not everyone is here, right? In fact, most of the people aren't, they're out in the world. And so all the workshops that are taught here, there's a DevNet Learning Lab that you can do the same material, available online. And then we have our DevNet Sandbox, which is hosted labs. If you don't have a spare network laying around, or you don't have a Kubernetes cluster to work against, you can just instantly reserve them, and a lot of times they are configured in ways that help you do certain use cases. And then we have a new thing that was just launched prior to getting here, which is actually called our Learning Paths, which give a really curated experience around four, you know, enterprise, networking, programming, like, do these eight things. So it's real specific. So that's an exciting thing. The other new thing is Code Exchange. Have you guys heard about Code Exchange? >> Yeah, good buzz about this, explain that. >> Yeah, so we wanted to make it really easy for our developers to find code to start from, so you're not starting from scratch, right? So maybe you want to find something for ACI written in Python, so Code Exchange is a place on DevNet, you can go in, you can search, you can filter by technology and language, and then you get back a curated list of GitHub repos, of projects that people have published on GitHub. So it just helps people discover the things that the community is working on and people can share their code there, as well, and then it'll be featured in that way. So this has been really great, especially for, maybe people new to programming, they don't want to start from a blank page. I don't know that anyone likes starting from a blank page. But it's great, they can find projects, modify them, and start to, we're starting to build out use cases there, as well-- >> It's faster learning. >> Yeah, exactly. >> So, Mandy, I got to ask you, one of the things that has been impressive is you guys saw the future early with APIs. I mean, anyone in the cloud business kind of saw that, but you brought it into Cisco, DevNet. DevNet became that core community that's now programmable with the network. There's still the cloud-native, you have DevNet Create, another event, another kind of concept bringing cloud-native and networking together. Kind of an experiment a few years ago, theCUBE was there, covering it. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And remember? That's evolving, can you share the progress of DevNet Create? >> Yeah, absolutely. So DevNet Create is a smaller, much, much smaller conference than Cisco Live!, and it's solely focused on our developer community, and it is where we really try to connect in with cloud-native, we connect in with a lot of ISVs who may be building cool applications with Cisco partners of all types. It's also very community-driven. We try to have about 80% of the content, 80 to 90% of the content, be from the community, that comes in through the call for papers and is presented there. And so it's a very fun, very conversation, you know, connect people from different parts of the industry together, and get them thinking about what's possible with, we call it, "where apps meet infrastructure." So that includes things like IOT, new kinds of interactions, like voice and location and things like that. So it's coming up, it's in April, it's in Mountain View, and we're really excited, we're heavy into the planning for that right now-- >> April 24th, I believe. >> Yes, April 24th. >> I love how you bring the two worlds together, because there's more learning, shared experiences, but also that's what's happening with Cisco and the world. >> That's right, yeah. >> It's coming together, so you guys are out front on that. Look forward to seeing that. Okay, final question for you, I'll put you on the spot here. >> Oh, no. >> What's it like for you, personally, because you know we've had conversations in the past on theCUBE, and also in person, around the commitment that the DevNet team has, the vision that they saw, and now that it's becoming real, how do you feel, what are some of the learnings that you've had, looking back a few years? >> That's great, I mean, I feel really proud of our team is one thing that's really theirs. As a leader within DevNet it's great to see that the commitment that the team puts in, has the results that we're seeing, and to see them be proud of it is great. And I'm proud of our community, as well, 'cause they're excited. And it's energizing, right? It's great to see that coming together and know that some of the beginnings, when there was a lot of, you know, maybe not everyone understands what we're trying to do, and there's, you know, what is the reason for Cisco diving into developer? And all those kinds of questions, that we're seeing that all come to fruition is pretty exciting. >> Dave Vellante asked Susie Wee about the success of the program, and others have tried, you guys have been successful. So I'll ask the question, what does it take to be successful, to stand up and, or transform a preexisting community with modern, cool tools, without, kind of burning down the old to bring in the new, how do you rise that up, what's the strategy? What's been successful, what's the formula? >> (laughs) I don't know if there's any formula. We always say that, it was interesting because, starting a developer program for Cisco was this really hardware-focused company moving toward software. There was no playbook for how to do developers for this. That was actually one of the reasons I came to Cisco, it was really exciting. And, you know, what we have done a lot is listen to the community, and ask the community, you know, what they are seeing and how we can help, as well as asking that question internally at Cisco. >> Mandy, thanks for coming on theCUBE. I know you're busy, great job, great success, we can certainly testify that your team's working hard, and the team is crankin' out great material. We're in the DevNet Zone-- >> They're also partying hard, John. >> (laughs) >> Yeah, they play hard, see we don't say "party." It's not politically correct. Thank you so much for your support. Great to cover you guys, great content, great people, smart people in theCUBE. That's our formula, we love working with you. >> Thank you so much. >> More live coverage here in the DevNet Zone after this short break. Stay with us. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live! Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We're live here in Barcelona, Spain, theCUBE's coverage of Cisco Live! Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, and Dave Vellante all here this week getting all the action. Our next guests is Ron Sterbenz who's the marketing manager of Stealthwatch Cloud. Formerly is part of the acquisition the original team of observable networks. >> Correct, that's a good one. >> A small startup that was bought by Cisco in 2017. Now you're in the big company. Key part of the portfolio and security and cloud. Welcome to the cube again. Good to see you. >> Thank you John. >> So what's going on in Europe? What are the big trends obviously you here in Barcelona its a mirror, Europe, Middle east, Africa, and Russia. >> Yup. A lot of compliance, a lot of regulated industries across the board. >> Yup. >> A lot of security concerns, a lot of privacy concerns. >> That's right. >> Security is at the center of the values in the Cisco network approach. >> Yup. You know as of last year we were down in the front of this of the event. And I would say that traffic was pretty good. Now we're in the back, we're seeing a lot more interest, we're seeing actual customers come up, subscribers to our product, and service say "I've been with you now for a year, what's new?" So its nice to see that, that we didn't have right after the acquisition, which was where we were last year. >> So, in Europe, what are some of the trends, what's resonating? >> Kubernetes You know, you guys were out at KubeCon, for us that was a great show, lot of interesting kubernetes, and we're seeing the same thing here in the base, as well as the Cisco solution for it. >> And the definite zone which we're in has all these classrooms, I got to say, right next to us is Classroom One, the kubernetes session yesterday, >> Mhmm >> Was overflowing into our set. >> Yeah. >> Why don't we explain a little bit, what's exciting people about Kubernetes, do you have any guidance as to, you know, who they're using, cause I think back a year ago, a lot of the customers I talked to, they were like, building their own. Is kubernetes the hard way, as opposed to today, you know, Cisco's got a solution, you've got deep partnership with AWS, with Google and the like, so, yeah. >> We're seeing it all across the board. Lot of folks using Amazon to do it, we would always teach customers... Google was a natural for it, we are actually having customers come up to say, We're using the Cisco platform for it. So, for us it's the whole breath. What's also nice about it is we really simplify the deployment for kubernetes, so it doesn't matter whether any of those environments are going to be used from a security perspective. Real easy to inject it into the kubernetes environments, expand and contract, and feed the security solution that we offer. So, again, what's also really nice is the multi-cloud, so whether it's kubernetes, a little bit of AWS on the web servers, a little bit of the on PREM, any of the other Cisco kind of compute platforms, all of that data is coming in. >> I wonder if, when you look at security, it felt like a few years ago we got over the hump of the public cloud can be secure, but one of the challenges I have is if I'm in a multi-cloud environment, security is different in every one of those, so I've got different skill sets I have to match then, how are you helping customers? How are they sorting through that? >> Yeah, and then the other part of it is, they're used to what they would see on PREM in a physical network. So, by doing what we do into the cloud, allows the customer to have that traditional security perspective across all those environments of things that they're used to. So, if you look at it from the automation and simplicity, that's a great value prop. The other one that's a really interesting value prop is, I don't want to have to normalize for every data feed and element that comes out of those clouds, so, by for us doing it across all of our portfolio, when a feed changes with AWS, we're normalizing it and bringing it in as a security perspective for the customer, so you basically outsource a lot of the easy or hard lift of modifying those particular feeds into our solution or service. >> Talk about the cloud center service that you guys have as a suite now, gives a variety of, mentioned portfolio, certainly securities in there, stealth watch cloud, you mentioned kubernetes, you can't look at without containers being part of that, you've got the Cisco container service, Google and AWS, how do you guys fit into that? What's the key Stealthwatch Cloud value proposition? >> Yeah, so there is a reference architecture that Cisco has put out where we look at ACI anywhere, we look at the container platform, security on the top of it, we're able to integrate in other solutions, we're seeing a lot more interest in SD-WAN part of the house, being able to, again, simplify the security for all of those infrastructures back, so that's a really nice reference for architecture to go into an environment and try to leverage the whole portfolio for simplicity, broader breadth and depth. >> What are some of the conversations you're having with the customers around multi-cloud? Do they come in and say, Okay, give me some of that Stealthwatch Cloud, or, how do I architect it in, how does it fit in, what are some of those customer conversations? What do they look like? >> Well, the first one is simplicity, how difficult is this to do, how broad can I put it in a solution, and will it really do what you're forecasting or saying it will, with this thing called Endpoint Modeling, or Entity Modeling. What we also encourage free trial, so we allow customers to use the full service across all of those platforms, go as broad as they want during that trial period, and we prove out the value prop, in other words, you're able to see these devices in the real time, devices that you're normal and familiar with, the ability to again, to expand and contract in kubernetes, and see those whether you put an Apache server on a node, and that's the way it performs, and you expand out and get six of those, they will perform exactly the same way, and the expectation is that they will. But what we do in the demos in the booth is show the customer how easy it is to do that, and then encourage them to do it with their own environment in a trial, and that's where we solidify the customer into a sale. Into an ongoing subscriber. >> So, Ron, it's been interesting to watch this, we've got a lot of background and history with Cisco. Your solution, you're in the AWS marketplace, they buy you software, in the Google marketplace it's not boxes and that model, talk about how it's been coming into Cisco now, and kind of the go to market, how that, you know, we're watching a lot of Cisco change to go more towards where you were pre acquisition, even, so, how's that dynamic changing? >> We went from a team of 14, I think we're up to 21, 22 now, and then we've got the other partnership, our brothers and sisters of 70 thousand people, so it is one influencing that product, plus all the partners, and then getting them to encourage them to sell, the ability to sell on Cisco GPL, also the ability to transact, and Cisco is really supportive of whatever the customer wants to be, whether that's AWS, Azure, AWS marketplace, very easy to do a transaction there, and at the same time, we don't lose any of the internal compensation for Cisco employees or Cisco salers, so that's really nice, and it's simple for our customer. >> As you move from being a startup, which is nimble, you guys are small, you're in the front lines, you come into Cisco, what was your impression about how Cisco's portfolio was coming together, and where is it now, almost one year later, coming up on your one year anniversary >> Yeah, I think you can see that in the floor space here when you look at cloud. So, the first year that we were here, we were included in that whole piece, probably lighter traffic. This year we're seeing a lot more people with the interest in cloud, I think next year you will see more Cisco sellers, partners, buyers in that space, asking about what's coming next, I mean we're getting MSPs this year to say, Look, we're trying to do a kubernetes practice, is there a way that we can attach a security perspective to that? In a multi-tennancy, servicing our customers, being able to do the mediation, and we are and I don't think that's a conversation we had last year. >> Take a minute to explain, simply, the story for multi-cloud for Cisco from a security perspective. How would you describe to someone the multi-cloud story from Cisco? What is it? Take a minute to explain that. >> The multi-cloud story for Cisco for security is the ability to see and leverage intelligence, actionable insight across any one of those platforms. Normalizing it, bring it in, show me the interaction, whether that customer is sitting on a Cisco network, or this customer's sitting at the end point, outside of a web server on AWS. What can I see across that, what are my expectations of that interaction? >> Susie Wee was on yesterday, she's the champion of DevNet, this whole DevNet zone where we're located, lot of energy, lot of developers, Cisco app dynamics, which brings that app perspective, as the network becomes programmable, and you see the rise of kubernetes, great indicator that you mentioned that earlier, how should customers think about programmability with the security paradigm that's put forth from Cisco today? What's the guiding principals, what are some of the strategies they should take, what's your view on that? >> Intelligence and interoperability. So, whether we're looking at like an ICE integration, or a crypto threat analytics, or any of the other services that Cisco puts together, bringing all that intelligence back in, and putting it into usable fashion. Simplicity of integrating the products and suites services. >> Service providers you mentioned before, they're used to programmability, what I've seen over the last few years is they're embracing the multi-cloud message before. Five years ago it was, Oh my god, that's the enemy, I need to fight against them, now they're direct connecting into a lot of these public clouds, they're figuring out what of their services they keep vs offering services to customer and pass them through, seems like a great opportunity for you to help them expand, especially their security footprint across those environments. >> It definitely is. The ability for a customer to say, Hey, what is my real value at in this vs the pipe and the mechanics from behind the scene, so for us we focus on what we do really well, we allow our partners, look if you're going to do remediation, if you're going to do deployments into the web front end, or new applications, if you're going to look at portability across cube environments, whatever the cost benefit or ratio is, we let them focus on that, and we take the back end processing, which is the back end processing of alerts, back end processing of what we call observations, simplicity of bringing on partners for MSPs, and servicing 'em. >> I want to get your thoughts on a quote we heard on theCUBE yesterday from a practitioner, talking about multi-cloud, and cloud in general, as people move to SAS models and cloud, they don't really own the equipment, the quote was, "IT doesn't own the equipment, but owns the outcome." So the operating models changing a little bit, okay, I buy that, makes sense to me, and the quote was, "It moves from find and fix, to get evidence and escalate." How to handle the data becomes the core issue. Security data's a super important part of it, can you comment on your reaction to that quote, the positioning, cause certainly cloud is a rent vs buy, that's classic, you've still got the on premise, but security's dealing across the holistic environment where data and escalating, sharing data, big part of it, what's your thoughts on the role, how to handle the data? >> Well, if you look at security and look at SAS, what is our role? Our role is to normalize that data and be responsive every time a change is made in a cloud platform. The other thing what's great about a SAS service is upgrading, right, so upgrading is updates and everything else that comes at you from a security perspective, SAS is best to handle that, because we are looking at that, we're providing updates as well as changes to our platform almost daily, we publish that back to the customers, and as a subscriber, you don't renew if you're not happy. So, it continually puts us on the forefront of saying, look, we've got to innovate, we've got to be responsive to the customer, we've got to be able to address any other kind of... And it isn't always just malware or something that goes wrong, it could also be malfunction, it could also be left over assets that are sitting in AWS environment, or LAM defunctions that go awry, so we have multiple ways of providing value to the customer on those infastructures. >> Lot of moving parts, dependencies could be, >> That's right. >> We could move the availability zone, have some dependencies across the network, lot of things (laughs) at play here. >> Right, and what's really good about Stealthwatch Cloud is from the back end of it we're sitting out and addressing that, we're trying to put a human's touch to what we would find in an alert, and what would be important to a customer, and how we drive that value. >> So, Ron, we know that security's always an ongoing journey, so there's no end to where you need to go, you mentioned LAM defunctions, serverless something that your team's involved in, or are there other areas that we should be looking for throughout 2019 for some to maturation. >> I think there is, but I don't... As far as the road map goes, there's always integration, look, integration with Meraki, integration with other Cisco products, and the same thing goes with any other, I had just finished a meeting with Google about, what other data elements can we get to enrich that security perspective from Google, that would be the exact same thing with AWS functions, the team will look at all of those feeds, which ones are relative to things that we can provide from a security perspective, or generate value to the customer and integrate those first. >> This highlights the operating model for Cisco as a company, you mentioned Google, Amazon, these are real integrations, these are real partnerships, deep, meaningful, technical relationships. Share some insight into how that's going. >> There's a lot. There's always a lot from each of those platforms, so you do have to kind of pick and choose as to what you're going to address, I'm sure all of us on the team that are in the forefront of selling are saying, What about this? What about that? Can we incorporate it? >> Worth the backlog >> It's difficult, but, I would also say what's really big here in Europe is Azure. That's a real big potential customer base to address as well. >> We talked to the DNA center platform guys, and they're like, the backlog is huge and we're just going to work the backlog, to your point about SAS, you knock these things down one at a time, you go get you, prioritize, do the classic product management. But Ron, thanks for coming on, really appreciate the insight, final minute, just give a plug for what's going on at Stealthwatch Cloud. What are some of the highlights, what are some of the things you guys are promoting, what's the good news? Share with us. >> I would say probably the best news is adding all the cloud platforms, being able to truly be a multi-cloud story. Integration with other Cisco products that are coming in the forefront that we'll be announcing at other events, throughout I think RSA we've got some other announcements coming out, so if you'll be there, and then the part that we keep hitting home is meeting with the sales teams, starting the trial, and allowing us to kind of prove out the value of the product and service. >> Security portfolios expand, you get Tetracia and SAS coming around the corner, a lot of other interesting things happening in the Cisco world. >> Duo. >> Hey, thanks for coming on, we're here inside theCUBE in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live Europe, I'm John Furrier, stay with us for more Day Three coverage, after this short break.

(techno music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here at Barcelona, Spain of Cisco LIVE! Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier. Stu Miniman, and Dave Vellante here this week covering all the action in cloud, data center, multi-cloud. Our next is Jim Frey who's the Vice President's alliances at Kentik Technologies. Groundbreaking report that came of the Amazon Reinvent Conference. A lot of customers. Part of the multi-cloud discussion. Jim, great to see you, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thanks. It's Frye by the way. >> Frye. I'm sorry. >> Okay. No worries. No worries. >> Multi-cloud, your report has some interesting data. Talk about the survey, the results. What is is telling us? >> Yeah, we've been working hard at Kentik on extending our solution to start covering the cloud, multi-cloud server hybrid environments. And so we were at the AWS re:Invent show and we decided to take the opportunity to talk to some of the attendees and just sort of get their view of what some of the challenges are. So we talked to a little over 300 of em and we asked them a few questions not a, you know, rigorous thing, you're doing it on the show floor, right? But we found some really interesting things out of that. So the first thing is is that it really is a multi-cloud world already. More so even in hybrid. And so we had nearly 60 percent. 58 percent of the people who we talked to had more than just one of the cloud in play. They almost all had AWS of course cause it was an AWS event, but not all, of which is really interesting. But, you know, they either had AWS plus Google or plus Azure or plus some other cloud. More so than even hybrid. And so we also asked, are you using AWS in conjunction with you know, your own private data center or a third party host to go low center. Only 33 percent were doing that. So, we were surprised. And the reason that that is really significant is monitoring in management of these environments is much more complex in a, well. It's complex in a hybrid environment. It's even more complex in a multi-cloud environment. So it sounds like there's some real need for some help there. >> What are the challenges and what are the some of the complexities? What are the challenges in the monitoring? >> Well, so that was the next question. What's the key challenge, ya know? And usually whenever you ask someone about the challenges, the number one answer is always, oh, security is my biggest concern. That did not turn out to be the case here. The biggest overriding concern across all the different sort of levels of people we talked to was actually cost management. And cost management is, it was a bit surprising. You know, but, usually, you hear security, security, security and then something else. This was cost management either number one or number two. And number one for most of the constituencies. And in some of the subgroups, like VP level, SVP level, architect level, it was overwhelmingly the first choice. 40 and 50 percent of them are saying yeah, cost control is their biggest issue. Even ahead of other things like performance, like visibility, like actual, you know, control of the environment. You know, its cost was really the biggest concern. That's the big issue. >> Jim, something we've been tracking especially at shows like this, at the Cisco show is the challenges I used to understand kind of the stuff I had in my data center. I could get my arms around it. I might not love the management tools that I have. I might complain about some of the cost. But, it's all very well understand. It's bought most of the cap and freight. When you get to the public cloud, like totally understand what you are saying. multi-cloud. Now I've got all these different pieces and how will I have them defined. There's different skill sets between them. >> Right >> And when it comes to cost, right, the big unknown is oh wait, am I getting surprised by what happens, in that environment and across all them, I mean, I've talked to plenty of companies that will dedicate an engineering resource just to manage cloud or >> Right. >> I have many friends in the industry that are helping you know, cost optimization is something that is, you know, software consulting, there's huge business in that because we're still early in this getting to the steady stage. Help us connect the dots. Where does Kentik play into this then. So you talk to all these customers. >> Thank you. Our viewpoint is network and we're trying to give a viewpoint of what's happening in this environment by watching the network. And that's always super valueable because it helps you localize where things are, you know, what activity's happening and it helps you see, you know, which workloads are talking to which workloads. And that reveals sometimes things you don't expect. And this is where the cost control come in because you know, the cloud environment, you have to pay for certain network traffic. Especially between availability zones or when you're shipping it out of the cloud back to your other, you know, your home environment. And we have talked to a lot of customers who have said, hey, end of the month comes around, I get my bill and there's this big number there for data, you know, transfer. I don't know what drove that. And why am I being surprised time and time again by this. Well then there were viewpoints really awesome for seeing that. And if you can do it with a monitoring system that's watching for that all the time, the good news is that you can catch it, figure it out if it's real or not, needed or not, and fix it before 20 days later you get a big, fat bill. >> What does fixing it mean, does it mean like keeping it contained in the cloud, or on frame, or managing what's moving around? >> Could be combination of things, one of the things that we've seen in some of our earlier deployments are someone moved a workload into a different availability zone. Well, there was an application dependency they didn't recognize. And, you know, that workload was talking to, you know, home datacenter, or the another availability zone, and creating traffic across there and just running up the meter on the network costs. So if you can see that and it becomes very obvious to watch the traffic patterns. You can at least have someone go say, Hmm, okay, that's a surprise. They had a big rise to my zone to zone traffic or my, you know, cloud to home traffic. Let's just take a look to who's driving that and whether something that should be or shouldn't be. >> One of the interesting trends we've been watching on scene with cloud and hybrid cloud is kind of the consumption and deployments of cloud and hybrid's interesting because hybrid's with a cloud operation on premise. Which is been slowest to deploy. WikiBound's done a lot of research on private cloud and why that's happening. But it seems that clouds sprawl on the public side has been there. So yeah, I've got some Amazon, easy to stand up. I've got some Azure and now Google. So it's probably easier to get stuff in the clouds and then now they've got repurpose on premise to kind of have this seamless cloud native environment and Cisco's announcements, et cetera, et cetera. >> Yeah >> So as that's happened, what have you guys learned and scene in terms of the customer behavior. They wake up obviously, the bills are higher, so makes sense that the cloud is higher than hybrid and the cost containment is a concern. How did they get there? What are you seeing? And what's the psychology the customer just share some insight into the customer behavior. >> Well. >> Oh shoot, I got to unwind this, do I double down? What's going on? >> I think it really depends a lot on what the projects are, what the objectives are and what the skillset is. But one of the things that we found in this survey is that, network viewpoint that helps you understand what's really happening in the production environment is often being underutilized or underappreciated in the cloud environments, in the cloud, you know, deployments in cloud infrastructure. So one of the things we asked about was, how many of you folks at this event are actually taking advantage of, for instance, VPC Flow Logs, which can tell you exactly what's happening with an AWS, and between the availability zones. And it was surprising, they've been around, VPC Flow Logs have been around for years as a technology and as an additional service available. But, only about a third of the response were actually using them. So they weren't taking advantage of this important insight and viewpoint ceilometery set. About a third kind of knew about em, but wasn't using em yet. And then another third didn't even know what they were. >> Yeah. >> So I think there's still some maturity happening some maturation happening in terms of understanding what can I do about this? How can I get ahead of this? What's at my disposal? So part of the challenge of course then is that I have that piece covered, but as you said now, how do I cover my home, you know, home front? And where do I find, you know, some sort of tools that can be put these things together so I can see it all as one. >> That's where you guys fit in. >> That's where we fit in, yeah. >> So let me get some anecdotes from you. One it's clear that's a, there's a pain point. Take the aspirin. Understand what's going on, contain the bills. Is, give a scenario of what they're doing to contain the, you mentioned a few of them, but also to give an example of where they're using the data to be proactive, so there's the vitamin side of it. The vitamin, aspirin, whatever metaphor. So, you know, I've got contain my cost, I get that. How are people using the data to be more proactive in either architecting or deploying? >> So I think the, I don't know that anyone's being proactive yet. That is certainly the promise and the opportunity. Most organizations are simply want to be more aware of what happened. Or more affectively reactive and you start there. And once you start to realize, hey, I can do this then you can start turning toward being more proactive. So, for instance our solution was built to allow you to trigger corrective actions back to the environment. We don't take the actions, but we can trigger the systems that would change configurations or change policy and then form those systems of, you know, what's happening and what sort of parameters can we recognize that indicated and issue? So we believe that in especially watching the change in patterns of activity, noticing the anomalies. Anomaly detection often times used around security use cases. We do that. But also, it should be applied to operational use cases. When does a new workload pop up or a new, you know, volume of traffic show up that they didn't expect? And if it's something that I recognize happens at a regular basis and I know the answer, let's automate the corrective response. So that's kind of our theory of provide you the understanding of what's happening then with the tools to trigger and automatic corrective action. >> Alright, so Jim, we're talking a lot about multi-cloud this week with Cisco. Of course, you know, Cisco dominant in the networking space. Really feeling out where they live in multi-cloud, how networking plays across all of them. What's the relationship between Kentik and Cisco? How does that work? >> Thanks, so we're a member of CSPP Program. We are a partner. We joined because we manage a lot of Cisco gear. (laugh) So, a lot of our customers have Cisco. A lot of our use cases, historically, have been at the edge of the network, in particular the service providers. So, those that are delivering internet services or using the internet to reach their customers in some way. So, what's really different about us is we do a really deep and detailed approach of integrating a path, BGP path data, PGP rev data and correlating that with the traffic. As well with other enhancements, and augmentations of the data that give business and service context to the network traffic. Makes it more actionable. >> Yes, and what are you doing in the container space? You mentioned edge computing got some interesting use cases maybe explain a little bit where you play there? >> So when I say edge, I'm saying internet edge, not EDGE computing, although we're fascinated by what EDGE computing represents and the new challenges that's going to bring. Now when it comes to containers, actually we're very fascinated working in that area too, because, Jon, as you mentioned, moving and implementation of new cloud workloads is cloud native, using Kubernetes, using things like Gist T O, you know, that changes the environment once again. So, we've actually built a connector into Kubernetes so that we can use that to pull service information, you know, in terms of what workloads, what containers are out there. What are they doing? What's there purpose? So when we show you activity map of, you know, site to site communications we can say, here are the actual, you know, services that are being, participating in this activity. Its G was another place where we're really interested in to look at the service mesh, you know, that's being set up to run and operate communication between containers. Cause that's a new sort of virtual cloud network. It's a way that these containers are communicating. and again, the more you understand about the communication patterns, the better you can recognize problems, the better you can balance and plan, the better you really get a handle on what's really happening. >> Jim, I want to get your thoughts on since you brought up edge of the internet, multi-cloud and hybrid cloud, data moves around, certainly brings up the question of which routes the packets are moving around? There's always been debates but SL lays around, you know, direct connection versus go through the internet? Is China looking at it? So, there's a security kind of concern. >> Yep. >> What's the trend that you're seeing with respect to say either direct connects, cause I'm a company that I have multiple clouds. I have the connections in there. I'm concerned about latency, certainly cost, you know, whether it's cat videos or whatever, or application too. It still costs money. >> Yep. >> So latency's important so each cloud is its own kind of latency issues. What have you seen? >> Well, getting to the cloud and then within the cloud. >> Yeah, exactly. So it's complicated. So, this is a new dynamic, but it's similar concept. Is there standard latencies? Is it getting better? What's the trend look like? >> That's a great question, and I honestly don't have a good answer for you. But I recognize and agree that those are common concerns that we hear. And the best thing at least for what Kentik is doing is to provide the means to measure and understand that. So you can compare what's working. You can, you know, document a baseline, your different options and your different paths, and recognize when there's a real problem occurring. When you start to see latencies spike to any particular cloud service or location or zone so that you can try and get on top of it and figure it. >> That's a classic case of evolution. Get it instrumented. >> Yeah. >> Get the providers, get better what there services. That's the out of, really out of your hands. >> Yeah. >> That's not really. Okay, so, getting back to the survey kind of wrap things up. Interesting it said Amazon the biggest cloud show Azure pops up on the list as pretty high. >> It sure does. >> Makes sense Microsoft's got great performance. I mean Azure's kind of like, they move a lot of stuff into Azure preexisting Microsoft stuff plus they're investing. What's the bottom line summary as you kind of, you know, the aroma of the rapport. What's coming out of the rapport? What's the key insights that you can glean out of this? >> So I think it indicates normal pattern of adoption, and sort of we're growing into this marketplace. It's evolving as we go, you know. We saw big early-end option hopping in like lift and ship approaches to just move stuff into the cloud. Throw it in the cloud. It's going to be cheaper. It doesn't turn out to be cheaper. It can be. Then you've got another, you know, set of organizations that are born in the cloud, right? And they've started out from the beginning. So those two early approaches are merging into how do we really use this as a true, strategic approach to I.T.? What are the real world complexities we're going to deal with? And how are we going to deal with those? It's really no different from the way that technology has evolved within traditional data centers. And why, the way virtualization came in and changed the way we build and architect datacenters. It's awesome. It's great. It save you money in one area, but then it created huge blindspots, cause you couldn't tell what was going on in those virtualization layers, so we had to adapt our operational monitoring, and operational practices to accommodate the new technology. I think we're going through the same thing now with cloud. People recognize that they don't necessarily want to be holded to a single cloud provider. They want alternatives. They want, you know, cost competitiveness. They want redundancy. And so multi-cloud, I think, is becoming more and more real in part because people don't want to put all of their eggs in that one basket. >> And cost certainly looks good on paper at the beginning. >> Yeah. >> But then as you said, there's side effects. It's a system so there's consequences to the system. >> Yes, absolutely. >> When you start growing or whatever. And that's just where people have to work it better. Right? >> Yep. >> That's pretty much the operational. >> I mean, let's apply the same rigor that we used to apply to traditional data center environments. And let's start embracing the cloud, right? >> So, Jim, you've talked about the multi-cloud bid. Why don't you put a fine point on it. There's a reason why you jump from being an analyst into the vendor world. Some people on the outside will be like, well, you know, cloud's been going on for ten years, seems we understand where this is going. But, tell us why, you know, now is so important for this multi-cloud environment and the opportunity that you see again. >> Sure. >> In this ecosystem. >> Kentik in particular what we're starting to hear, very loud and clear amongst the what. Our traditional an initial base of customers was facilities based, service providers and digital enterprise that managed big routed networks and needed to understand better control their relationship with the internet and delivery across the internet. There coming to us and saying, hey look. We're splitting. We're adding cloud workloads. So, we're moving our content that we're serving up into the cloud, you know, more and more of our systems are moving into the cloud and we rely on you for this visibility in our production environment. We need you to add this. So, we saw a demand from our customers to, you know, accommodate this and in parallel we're just really inspired by this next generation of cloud native application development. It seems to be starting to reach that point where's it's becoming reality and it's becoming mature, and it's becoming a reliable approach to I.T. That now's the time to really get serious about bringing these other best practices for the traditional world, and applying them there. >> And the survey data has created proved multi-cloud and hybrid all here, costs can run out of control. You've got to work. You've got to operationalize cloud. And same rigor. I love that. Great insights, Jim. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Appreciate it. >> Sure. >> Live CUBE coverage here in Barcelona for Cisco Live! Europe 2019. It's theCUBE. Day three, or three days of coverage. We'll be back with more, after this short break. (techno music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live! Europe, brought to you by Cisco and it's eco system partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Cisco Live! 2019 here in Barcelona, Spain. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host for this segment is Dave Vellante. Dave, myself, and John Furrier here, gettin' wall to wall coverage. Happy to welcome to the program, first time guest, Dave Stanford, who's the Customer Experience Cloud Product Management at Cisco, Dave thanks so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me here. >> Alright. So, we've been digging into the whole multi-Cloud piece here, some real big announcements. A lot of their business solutions talking about being anywhere, it's the bridge-to-possible here at the show- >> Exactly. >> So, tell us exactly the customer experience there. Is this, the gooeys, much more than that, do you know? >> It is. >> What's that encompass? >> We really want to put a whole wrapper around all these products and solutions from a service perspective, and that includes everything from advisory, really guiding our customers, how do I get there, we see all these products and sometimes, it's like, well what do I use these for? So, we want to guide them, help them adopt it and then, support it, support's probably the most important piece. With all these multiple solutions, who can the customers call to get support for all of these? >> You know, I mean, I've worked with Cisco, partnered with Cisco my entire career, and the last few years, boy, things are changing so fast. >> Absolutely. >> A year ago kind of opened my eyes, and said, oh Cisco's movin' to be a software company? You really see the movement when I come to the show here, when I talk to people like the Cisco DNA Platform Solutions. >> Exactly. >> And all the things that customers need to change. Bring us inside how you're helping customers with that change, the services, and everything that you're wrapping around there. >> Sure. My role today is to develop the offers and scale them out and enable our other advanced services folks to deliver, but previously I was delivery myself. So, I understand the challenges that the customers have, so I know what they expect, they want the products to go out there and seamlessly work together, now they do. There's APIs, there's connectivity, but we have to actually show them what they can do with them, what are the use-cases. And from our perspective, when a product's released, a CX offer or service package should go out the door with that, too. QuickStarts are the biggest thing we have. >> Yeah and actually one of the keys things we talk about that move to software, with hardware it was inner-operability and how do all these things wire together? >> Exactly. >> Software, right, it needs to be seamless. >> It does. >> It should be platforms. And solutions in there, so give us the critical eye, a look internally, how's Cisco doing, what's the feedback you're hearing from the teams and partners? >> I think we're on the right track. We're well ahead with some of the solutions we're released with Cisco Container Platform, Cisco CloudCenter Suite. The biggest thing we hear from customers, a lot of, especially developers, application users, they don't care, they just want it to be up and running. So, with our integrated solutions, with things like the new HyperFlex 4.0, we build on top of that, they don't have to worry about connectivity to security or to load balancing, name the technology, they can bring it up and we can actually have the software do exactly what it needs to do. >> So, I've observed for decades the evolution and the services' business. >> Yeah. >> When I started in the business, it was all about break-fix. >> Yes. >> Right and then you had large software projects and ERPs. >> Yeah. >> And business process, re-engineering, a lot of consultative selling, internet came in. A lot of e-commerce activity. >> Yeah. >> How has the Cloud changed the service role, the organization, and how you go to market and scale, as you mentioned before. >> I think the biggest change with the Cloud, it's no longer just break-fix, let me go and install it and figure it out. It's, we really need to understand what our requirements are before we move to the Cloud, we hear about speed, cost-performance, but there's a lot more thought that has to go into it. We have to look across the IT infrastructure. So, that advisory upfront, that guidance, that wasn't necessarily always there, that's the biggest change, before we even think about using the product, we need to understand why we purchase this product. >> And so, what do you need from the customer? I mean, you obviously need data and participation and buy-in from the customer, what do you need to be successful there? >> Really from the customer we need to know, what are you trying to accomplish? What are the use-cases, and we have a lot of common use-cases we've seen, security is always a concern. How do I securely connect to the Cloud? How can I leverage Cisco's software to do that? And it's not just about connecting to Cisco's software, but how do we use Cisco's software to do that connectivity? So, it's over and over we see this constant pattern of, I want to build a manager hybrid Cloud securely, multi-Cloud network it and take the complexity out of what we do there. >> As the demographics of your buyer changes- >> Yes. >> How do you service them differently? How do you create a customer experience that's more focused on the way they want to interact with you? Whether it's chat or talk about that a little bit. >> So, you're not really talking to the IT infrastructure person anymore, you're talking to the lines of business or the application developers. So, you have to go in with the understanding of, I'm not going to go in and say, we're going to refresh the hardware, we're going to do this, we're going to give you new switches, new routers. You start the conversation at the application level now. What types of applications do you have? Are they traditional, do we have to re-factor them? Can't we just move them to the Cloud? Then, you go to the next level of, we understand this, now let's get our hardware in place to support this and then our infrastructure. But applications, that's the big shift. That's where the discussion is now. >> Alright, so we've talked about some of the impact of Cloud. >> Yeah. >> We've been hearing about how AI and ML are getting infused- >> Yes. >> Into all the products and that has to have a huge impact on how the customers interact and manage- >> It does. >> And there's got to be a little bit of the retraining that we talked about, too. >> Definitely, I mean, that's probably the biggest challenge, even hiring right now to find the right fit for Cloud or for Dev-Ops, AI, ML, it's a challenge. So, you have to have a plan in place with this background. And, what we've done within CX is we have a five tiered model. So, we start with the pre-requisites, where are you in this scale, we'll give you a rating based on what you have, but you really still have to train the folks, you have to give boot camps, cohorts, then code deliver on different engagements. But you still have to bring in folks with the right background, even if it's network route-switch, you can train them, but you have to have that program in place to be able to ramp them up. >> Yeah, we always said one of the biggest strengths Cisco has, is you've got those army of Cisco certified- >> Yes. >> The CCIEs out there. >> Yes. >> CCNPS and the like out there. Now, a lot of what they have to manage, it's either outside of their control, it's in the public Cloud >> It is, yeah. >> Or, right there's automation. I don't need to just get an alert and go do it, wait I need to make sure that the business rules are in place and- >> Exactly. >> The tooling's going to take care of that. So, help us understand what's the new, what's the new role inside the customers, that's got to change who you're negotiating with and who's involved in the conversations when you're putting this solution together, as well as, kind of the pre as well as the post deployments. >> Sure, sure I think the biggest difference is our customers now have customers. >> Yeah. >> Before we just managed their IT infrastructure. A good example, we have a healthcare comp, a healthcare corporation in Canada, the clinics are basically the clients of the overall organization, they don't care how long it takes to spend, they want speed. They can't go to the IT department and say, give me a VM and then three weeks later, they give it up or they provision it. And then, they'll go and say, well this is too slow. Here's my credit card, I'm going to buy Amazon Web Services and provision it, now we need to bring all of that together so, the route-switch folks need to become multi-Cloud architects. And when I talk about multi-Cloud, they need to know everything up the stack, infrastructure, connectivity with the CSR, security with our Cloud Protect Portfolio, and then the applications, not to mention the vast array of third party solutions, Cooper Netties is everywhere now. It's the defacto standard for containerization. This is really something that's come up over and over. And that's probably one of the biggest challenges is to get our folks to look at the overall stack rather than one piece. >> You challenge. I mean, Cisco and Hallmark, and Cisco has always been partner friendly. >> Yes. >> It's worked with all the different infrastructure that's out there. >> Yup. >> Now, you add in all the different Clouds. >> Exactly. >> And it's not just a cloud. >> It's an entire cloud stack, all the APIs. Your eyes bleed when you look at all the different APIs from Amazon- >> Yup. >> Data services, even. >> Exactly. >> There are dozens and dozens of them and so, so how do you manage (chuckles) that challenge? You can't just throw bodies at it? >> No, so we leverage the tools that we have. Cisco Container Platform's a good example. We use it in-house, but it's the biggest thing we position to our customers in the Cloud story because it's made deploying and managing containers or Cooper Netties simple. Before CCP, my team would deploy open source Cooper Netties which worked great, it was complex to set up, but then you had to look at, I need a tool for monitoring, I need one for logging, for load balancing, you ended up with 10 different applications. You thought you were moving to containers, but hey, there's much more to it. So, now with CCP, it's all packaged, everything's simple to manage. So, that's just the containers. And you mentioned governance before. I think this is a big thing, CloudCenter Suite, we can model our applications in there, deploy to any Cloud endpoint, so we support over 15 Clouds. And what my team does is bring this all together. So, it's not just a service, we want to show you how you can automatically provision those clusters and move it anywhere you want to go. >> Yeah, I wonder if you can put a point on that. The CloudCenter Suite, CloudCenter's been around for awhile. >> It has. >> But there's really been a re-architecture. It's built, Cloud native. >> It is. >> Cooper Netties' in there, but what, as a customer, is going to be like, oh wait, this isn't what I was used to in the past, help us understand what it is for the future. >> Absolutely, I think CloudCenter has been around for awhile, it's an amazing product. I took over this Cloud Portfolio and Services about a year ago and I'd heard all about it, started to ramp up on it, within four hours I couldn't believe this is really gooey-based. This is simple, so I can model the application and it's a simple as clicking deploy, and I can push it to any Cloud environment. And I think that's the biggest challenge, it's always been, how do I migrate my applications from the data center to the cloud or vice-versa. And CloudCenter's made it so simple within two minutes, you can actually migrate an application or deploy it, and they've added so many other features around cost and orchestration that it's everyday, I see customers starting to adopt CloudCenter Suite. >> I want to ask you about Swimlanes. >> Yeah. >> Cisco's a product company. >> Yes. >> You R&D. You build product, you ship products. >> You're not a services company. but you have a large services organization. How do you, what's your swim lane relative to some of the big SIs, what's your relationship with them? How does that work? >> Sure. So, I'm really closely partnered with all of the engineering teams, but at the same time, the partner organization, the systems integrators, they're still partners, especially in the new CX organization, we want to drive the solutions out to our customers, so we're actually taking some of our partners, bringing them on board, ramping them up on our services. And saying, hey you know what, you go deliver it, we'll support you, there's not a competition. I think, with CX now, we've combined everything together, the partners are just as important to us as the products that we sell. >> Will they private label those services or is- >> Yeah, absolutely, so our QuickStarts for example, these smaller packages, to turn up the solution stack quickly and drive adoption, we can hand that off to 'em, they can sell it themselves and label it. >> Yeah, so you're open that. And that drives their brand and their value. Their intimacy with their customers, yeah. >> I mean, we have a big market, but still the partners can reach them different spaces that we wouldn't traditionally be able to get to in professional services. >> Yeah, they have those relationships. Services has always been very local by nature. >> It has. >> The world's not just going to, we've talked about this, not just going to go to three clouds. I mean- >> That's right. >> Services, people want to meet people and they're in the same neighborhood. And there's trust. >> Yup. >> And that just doesn't disappear over night. >> And you have to build that, too. But you have to build the expertise before you get that trust. >> Yeah (chuckles). >> So, Dave, lot of customers here, you've been in meetings, giving presentations all week, give us a little bit of what's the buzz at the show? What are some of the top conversations? People are doing their planning for 2019. >> Yeah. >> You know, big hurdles and big opportunities that people are excited for. >> So, two common themes, security has come up over and over again, customers who haven't moved to Cloud they're concerned, how do I connect? And can I really put this in the Cloud? Or do I have to keep it in the data center? So, we talk about how we can secure and it- >> And I'm sorry, are they concerned about security, compliance, governance- >> They are. >> All of the above. >> One example. Yesterday, a customer said, I have a top secret application. And my company's pushing me towards the Cloud, can I really put this top secret application in a container in a public Cloud environment? So, that's just one conversation. It's the concern of, I don't own this anymore. It's not my data center, so how do I secure the application? How do I make sure there's no type of interference with that app, any type of interjection into damage it, right? And then, the other thing is, I see your stack, I see you have infrastructure, I see all the products, I don't think it's that simple to put together. It's great on a PowerPoint, but show me in the real world how this works together. And, that's what we've been doing, showing these demos, how we can build everything. >> Alright, so once you've shown them, walked through everything, they're feeling answered? >> They're feeling much better, but we go back to the whole CX lifecycle, advisory, implement, support, and that brings it all together. >> Yeah, and the top secret thing, Google, you've been highlighting partnerships with Google, Microsoft, Amazon, they've got specific Clouds, we've been watching this- >> They do. >> 'Specially, all the stuff happening at the government level. >> Yeah. >> And one of the great proof points about public Cloud adoption. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Alright, want to give you the final word as people come away from Cisco Live! 2019, when it comes to customer experience, what do you want them to understand? >> It's all about solutions, putting it together. So, you see all these products, it's not that complex, CX, our partners can help you build it, scale it out, and really adopt it. >> Alright, well Dave Stanford, really appreciate you helping us understand the CX experience here. >> Thank you. >> Definitely lots of opportunities here. Cloud, AI, ML, putting all the solutions together. For Dave Vallente, I'm Stu Miniman, back with more coverage here of Cisco Live! 2019. Thanks for watching theCUBE. (funky upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> (narrator) Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Cisco Live! 2019 here in Barcelona, Spain. I'm Stu Miniman and my cohost, Dave Vellante and John Furrs here with us. Wall to wall coverage going through all the areas of what Cisco's covering. Their transformation, become more of a software company. To help us dig into a very exciting area. We have Nicola Rohrseitz, who's the lead strategic AI program at Cisco. Nicola, thanks so much for joining us. >> Nice to meet you. >> Alright so AI is something that's pervading everything that we talk about. We definitely have the buzz and the hype in the industry. You sit at the nexus of all the different areas inside of Cisco so give us a little bit about your role inside the company. You've been there about two years and kind of the scope of what you do there. >> AI/ML has a long history inside of Cisco. We have not been very vocal about it, but it's being used throughout the company, and we once put together a map of all these things, this was one of my first activities, and I went, "Wow it's amazing." In all of these products we have some element of AI/ML. And this showed also that we have a very pragmatic approach to AI/ML. It's not this killer robots or you name it, it's more like okay, how do we use this to solve specific problems. >> Yep so, I think back, definitely analytics, when you talk about networking and flows, there's always been lots of data, and I've had tools to be able to access there. When I talk to most people in the industry though, it definitely is something new and different. You know, AI is not new. We've been talking about artificial intelligence for about 150 years. Machine learning, there's been movements on there. So maybe you can give us... What's the same as what we've had before, and what's new and different about the era that we're in today and the product that Cisco's bringing to market. >> It's a spectrum. On one side you have analytics, on the other side you have AI. And basically the fundamental difference is that the analytics usually accept that it's a person that creates the rules that draws the rules. On your hand the AI it's the computer that draws the rules. So in between those there is a gray zone in which you evolve and there's more and more done by the machine. But it really depends from the specific area in which you want to apply it. It is true, we are moving more and more towards artificial intelligence, more done by the machine. And the reason is clear, we have more and more data and up to a point in which AI will be the only option to do business because everything needs to be automated. >> I want to ask you as an AI expert. When I talk to security experts I always ask them, "Who is your favorite super hero?" because when they were little kids, they dreamt about saving the world. So as an AI expert, did you think about artificial intelligence or whatever you called it back then as a child? How'd you get into and interested in artificial intelligence? >> I've been always fascinated by how the brain works. I did my PhD in neuroscience and physics because of that. When I was a kid suddenly I thought, how do we think? How is this possible that we create stories in our mind and we dream at night and wake up. Then slowly little by little I kept on asking the question, How do you make this into a technical solution? How do you engineer something like this? And started looking into computers, well it's not like our brain works, so there's a difference. And now we are sort of like coming slowly together despite having started from very different paths from the Norman machines and so on how we are moving more and more to brain-inspired technologies. >> So you're seeing those two worlds come together. I was under the impression that despite that vision that today's AI anyway is really a lot about maybe automating processes, robotic process automation as an example, but you're talking about a world that much more mimics the human brain as we understand how the human brain works. Is that correct? >> It is correct in the sense that allow you to mimic certain fundamental capabilities. So intelligence is about receiving information, storing knowledge, thinking and adapting. You need all these four components to create a truly intelligence system, and you don't need to replicate individual neurons to make this happen, but at least understand the fundamental principle behind it, what's the computation like? And as you go along, because we are in a business we need to find complete solutions to business challenges and therefore we apply whatever we need from these principles to make something out of it. >> What are the things that humans can do today that computers have trouble doing? And how is that changing? >> One of the clearest thing is that computers are not able to think. They is an executing machine. They don't have a representation of what it means to do whatever they are doing to solve their problems. One of the next steps which the researchers are very interested in now is trying to understand the context in which a machine operates. Now if you ask a machine to do a certain task it can fail miserably because it's not able to connect the dots between different elements of the context. Part of the reason is that context, contextual information is so broad and large so much data, so which one do you pick? This is still an unsolved problem. >> Nicola, help us understand how we should think about Cisco when it comes to AI. People hear about Facebook, Google, IBM with their Watson pieces there. Obviously things like scale of networks, managing infrastructure and moving to some of these multi-cloud environment theme a natural fit for Cisco. But how should I as a user be thinking of, when do I come to Cisco? How does AI and ML fit into what Cisco does compared to some of those other software and enterprise IT providers? >> So doing AI at Cisco is super exciting because it's still an open field. AI/ML for networking is something that has not been solved yet and there are other areas where other companies operate in, they are much more advanced. Well for us there is lots of room to innovate. For us it's a business opportunity. It's a tremendous business opportunity. Some market research talks about 1.2 trillion dollars that's going to be captured by companies that adopt AI compared with those that don't, but for Cisco is really a necessity, because data is going to flow more and more through our networks. How do we handle that? What people don't realize in general compared to what's out there that ML for networking is a different beast. For one th6e data is different and often it's encrypted. So how do you do AI on encrypted data? And every network is unique. These are two fundamental differences that force us to be creative and to pioneer new ways of doing AI. It is super exciting. >> Does open source play into the activities that your different product groups are working on? >> In general AI has been driven by a very lively AI committee in the open source world, and then the question comes when we talk to partners and customers, How do we bring these solutions to production? Because certain packages of open source cannot be applied directly and this is one of the main pinpoints of the IT teams and the scientists and the engineers. >> I want to ask you about the black box phenomenon. As a human I can look at a dog and I can see it's a dog immediately but I can't really explain how I know it's a dog. I can, but I could be describing another animal. Computers can figure out but we don't really know exactly. It's like sort of a black box inside. Is that a problem? Do we need to make AI more transparent? Or is it increasingly going to be a black box that we just trust? What are your thoughts on that? >> It depends on the situation. You came here by plane. Do you know exactly how the plane works? I don't. I sort of know the principles, but I trust the industry, the regulations, everything that they have checked off everything. To me it is a sort of black box. However if there are certain things that I have to go under like surgery, I want to exactly what is going on. The same thing here in AI so there's the black box phenomenon. You don't know exactly how does this work. On one side I understand it and it makes sense you want to be sure that you know what's going on On the other hand sometimes you want a result and you don't really care about exactly how it works because ultimately the risk is not that high. And so you have to really think about what kind of risk management, how deep you want to look into it. The problem of transparency has been researched a lot because of course there's certain phenomena that touch the social sphere and there we have to be careful. When it touches private data, how is private data handled all that is very important of course. >> Yeah Stu and I often when we do these conversations John as well, we often ask ourselves, How far can we take AI and how far should we take AI so maybe a couple of examples if I may. Do you expect that within the next 10-15 years that machines will make better diagnosis than doctors? >> Oh, they already do. >> (Dave) They already do. >> New research has been shown that in certain cases specific cases that they have better accuracy. However to bring that again into production at the level that we go to the hospital and there's a machine to help us diagnose, well we are still at least some years away because there's a process of certification and it must be added that on one side, it's really about augmented intelligence rather than artificial intelligence. The machines will help us diagnose but then the responsibility should stay with the human. >> Another question we like to ask is around automobiles. Do you think it will become the exception rather than the rule, that individuals will own and drive their own automobiles? >> It's going to be the exception in the future that is going be no ownership and driving, active driving. It's going to, it's interesting because it's going to become like when it started, a pleasure to drive. You drive because you want to drive. You going to drive those hills up and down and really enjoy it. Otherwise you go on your commute, well you have work to do. >> I still have a stick shift. >> You going to enjoy it. >> I got to ask you, so the likes of Elon Musk and Hawkings have said, you know, projected that AI is a bad thing, it's going to, machines are going to take over the world. I don't sense that you're of that mindset, but what are your thoughts on that, those dire predictions. Are they ultimately going to come true? Do you feel like they're over-blown or who knows? It's hard to forecast, but what are your thoughts on that? >> It's important to acknowledge these forecasts of dire future because AI is capable of lots of things at scale and this is the key differentiator. So whatever you can do, you can do it at scale automatically things on their own. So it's more than predicting our future is like I'm wanting to say developers, managers, be careful of your choices because they're going to have an affect at scale. And this is not just an AI effect, It's really a technology effect. if you look at AI today, there are lots of pieces that come together, lots of pieces that come also from the big data era, and now they are being transformed and you add a little bit of AI in the mix but to make it to work there's a lot around it. So AI is the culprit because of the science fiction history and everything. But ultimately the ability to do things at scale automatically, that is really where we have to be careful. >> So Nicola, what should we be looking for, when we watch Cisco going forward for the next couple of years in this space. What are some key milestones that you think will come to reality? >> We are going to release products that have more and more AI into it and the whole industry will evolve and have a better understanding of what's possible and what not. AI in Cisco revolves around three axis. One infrastructure, two the fit, and unique data. Infrastructure is how do we deal with increase of data create this future-proof networks. This is like our core business. The two the fit is that we provide entrance solutions for our customers and partners so that they can implement their AI/ML strategies and this is a really interesting topic because AI/ML is a moving enterprise and other organizations but it's still in the early stages because of all these operational challenges which we at Cisco are very good at solving. The third point is unique data. Unique in terms of volume, breadth and type of data. This is where on one side we have systems that work at scale but also we have the kind of data that can be used by our customers to better understand their own business. >> Nicola we really appreciate you giving us a nice overview of all the areas for AI. Dave Vellante and I are still humans here doing the interviews here until the robots take over all of our jobs. Until then thanks as always for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Live, from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live!, Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona, this is Cisco Live 2019, and you're watching theCUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost Dave Vellante and John Furrier is here, three days wall-to-wall coverage, and we are absolutely thrilled to welcome to the program, for the first time the CIO of Cisco, Guillermo Diaz, Jr., also a senior vice president. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> What's your key priority today, some of the big challenges that you're focused on, Guillermo? >> Yeah, so I think the key challenges are really around. I would say for me it starts, it's in between, and it ends with the people. And I think it's the cultural shift that happens along this journey as well so, a lot of folks says, "yeah, we're IT, we're the leaders "in technology in the company." And I think moving from that back office to, now every business, the foundation of which, if you're going to be a digital company, is technology, so who in the company is the best suited to really help that conversation is IT. So IT is now becoming part of the business transformation of every business, whether you're in technology, like myself, whether you're in oil and gas, whether you're in retail, whether you're in finance, etc. Technology's driving the digital business transformation. So, it's really about how, that we not only use technology, but what is the impact on our processes, how we digitize, if you will. But more importantly is, how do you bring the people? How do you cultivate the best people and talent so that you can actually move up the stack, and it's not easy for someone that's been hugging routers for many, many years, and now you tell them, "Hey, you have to do drive programmability." And they're like, "What does that mean?" Well you have to learn >> Python and Ansible >> Yeah. >> Code that infrastructure. >> Now you need to code this thing because you need to provide that thing you provided in eight weeks, now you have to provide it in eight minutes. >> Right. >> And that's a big shift in mindset as well. >> Yeah, so, Guillermo, I know that STEM is a passion of yours, talk to us a little bit about that pipeline, and we love large technology companies like Cisco is to, how do you get down to not just the universities, but even some of the more elementary schools and help make sure that they're ready so that when, we're not sitting here saying, "I've got thousands of jobs and nobody "that is prepared to take that job." >> Yeah, well again, when you think about what you just said, with STEM, well what are you cultivating? You're cultivating the pipeline of people, and the more people that you have trained up in those technologies, and we do a lot with not only universities, but even below, even before university. We have a program, a work-study program that we have in Cisco IT, and we have several partners, one of which is called Cristo Rey Academy, and what we do is, part of the curriculum is four days a week you go to school, one day a week you work at Cisco. And these are kids from 14 years old to 17, 18. And they are learning now, some of these kids come from really low income or underserved communities, and now they're coming in and they're learning about, "How do I set up a wireless infrastructure? "How do I set up a telepresence environment?" And when they walk out, they're not only going to a university that they never thought of going to, like Cornell or like Humboldt State or whatever it might be, but they also have this skill, they also have this experience, because now you're putting them in an environment, and they're like sponges, and it's amazing what we can do, and now you fast forward that into a university pipeline. We bring in about, in Cisco IT, and broadly across Cisco many more, but 200 university hires every year, and they're providing instant value, because they're challenging us. They're like, us dinosaurs, I don't like to think of myself as a dinosaur, but I've been there 19 years, and sometimes I think a certain way, and I have to unlearn some things, and when I hear these people talk, I'm learning and I'm relearning things, and I'm unlearning some things. >> Well if you surround yourself with millennials and gamers, you do learn new things, you can't help it. >> Yeah, you learn new ways of thinking, new design thinking methodologies, stuff like that. >> I want to ask you about the organization. When we get the CIOs of large technology companies on, a lot of times you guys have implemented best practice, and we get a lot of questions around, what's the right organization? For instance, do you guys have a Chief Data Officer? Do you have one? >> So, what is the right organization? >> Well, do you have a Chief Data Officer? >> First, I don't know that there's a right organization. >> Is that, you know right, put that in quotes, but so do you have a CDO? >> Yeah. >> And where does that CDO fit in the organization, what's your relationship with her or him? >> Yeah, so why I say there's not a right organization is, we didn't have a real focus on data. Data was the database crew, the people that did the big data platform, and one of the evolutions we did, in about 2015 we actually brought data up to the CIO level, and we said that that was going to be a strategic pillar, along with how do we simplify, how do we automate, how do we get the data insights to be able to make decisions and then secure our business. Those are the five pillars of our digital strategy. So data and the insight was the big key strategic pillar for us. And so that helped us really start to accelerate our agile motion into you know. And as we learned in the last year, we actually elevated that role. We actually moved it from IT into the next level of operations. >> So it's a peer level to you, is that right? >> So now we've taken that role from my team, which was the Chief Data, now it's the Chief Data Officer, named Shanthi Iyer, and Shanthi was working in my team, and now she's working under the COO, because we believe that data's such a critical asset. It's the oil, it's the fuel of the business. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's the foundation, so we've elevated it up to that level, and now, really driving it >> That's awesome. >> From a business perspective. >> Great. Guillermo, we've seen Cloud go through a lot of changes both as an industry as well as Cisco's relationship to what you've been building and where you've been partnering. How's that impacting things on the IT side? >> Oh, I think Cloud is, it's interesting, I get to talk to many of my peers. Every day I'm talking to one of my peers, and many of us go, "We have a Cloud-first strategy" or "We have a Cloud strategy." And a lot of times you'll go, "We have a Cloud Strategy." And it's like, "What's up in the? What's?" Because if you think about it, Cloud is in some data center somewhere, but the impact on that is pretty tremendous because there's so many now "Clouds". And they come in the form of Saas, they come in the form of infrastructure as a service, and so you have put a wrapper around it or it could get out of control. And for us, we have what we call a "multi-cloud strategy." Luckily, we learned Cloud early on, and we initially called it virtualization, right? So we automated network compute and storage, and that wasn't good enough, because then we needed to automate the application infrastructure level, and then we needed to automate how we actually deliver, so as we moved up the stack, we learned how to virtualize, or, fast-forward, how to Cloudify our environment, so we grew up in our private Cloud, and then we extended that to, Okay, now you can go provision if you need to, you can provision public Cloud services if you want to do experimentation or whatever the use case might be, but Cloud is now changing the business. We have to move fast, but at the same time, you have to be secure, because we have in Cisco, just to give you an idea, we have 442 applications in the Cloud. The question is, how do you stitch those together? How do you make them secure? Because data is traversing across that, so it's really about Cloud, data, and security, all in one wrapper that you have to be thinking about. >> Enforcing that consistent policy, the corporate edicts. So it's interesting, you talked about multi-cloud. We saw this week a number of announcements from Cisco around multi-Cloud, ACI anywhere, HyperFlex, At the Edge. Over the years we've seen innovations around, we were talking about this before, programmable infrastructure, are you a Petri dish for those products coming to market? >> We're Cava. We drink our own Cava >> Yeah, not dog food. >> No, we don't like dog food, we like Cava. So we call ourselves "Customer Zero", and so the first order of battle, though, is we have to run our business. We're running a 50 billion dollar business, and that's the first order of battle. The second is, oh by the way can we use our own, what we're talking about here, to run that 50 billion dollar business, and that's sort of our multiple hats that we wear. We're the enabler, but we're also a large consumer. And being able to put that together, we call it "Customer Zero." We used to say, "We're the first and best customer." But for us that's too late, so we said, "We need to be Customer Zero, we need to be the first to take on some of these solutions and products, so that we can provide feedback to our engineering teams, our sales teams, our services teams, but more importantly, how do we become the reference, and we have an IT management program going on right now where we're talking about a lot of these things to 800 customers for a three day period. So those are the kinds of things that we do. >> Right. >> So, we love to hear you're using the products, we're here in the DevNet zone, and we've been hearing a lot over the last four or five years, Susie Wee and the team, how does that >> Right, she's my other partner in crime. >> Great, so talk about how the developer movement, DevNet specifically, DevSecNet, how that impacts your business. >> Yeah, so again, if you go back to programmability, if you go back to Cloud, it's all about having the ability to put all of these components together, so that we can all be productive. And the skill of the future is How do I program this? How do I make all of these things work in the easiest way, and it's coding. And you look around here, and there's coding classes. There's basic coding classes, and a lot of times a network engineer goes, "Why do I need to do that?" And you start to influence them to say, "Well, you need to move up the stack. "You need to be the one that actually provides "an infrastructure in five seconds, versus five weeks, and in order to do that, "you need to develop these new skills." And what Susie and the team have done with DevNet has provided a platform for all of us, around the world, to be able to learn these things, and not just become the network engineer, but become the orchestrator of these capabilities, right? >> When you think about your portfolio. You know, obviously you've got an application portfolio, you've got 400 plus applications in Saas, many more, I'm sure, on Primm. We like to think of this framework of run the business, grow the business, transform the business, and I wonder if you could, first of all, does that framework make sense? It's simple, obviously, but how do you think about your business in terms of running, growing, and transforming, and how you allocate resources to those three areas? >> I think that's been the historical legacy model. And I think when you start to segment it that way, you start to segment innovation as well, because in run the business, as an example, maybe you heard this term, "AI Ops". >> Mm-hmm (affirmative) >> What is the future of operations? Well the future of operations is how do I take all of these monitoring tools that I have, the same thing I've done with network computing storage. How do I stitch them together so that I can actually correlate where an issue is? In order to do that, what we've done is we've taken our operation team, and we've now deployed them into the development teams. This is the, we're not calling it DevOps, it's called DevSecOps, because at the same time, we want you to have a mindset of security first. Think about, as your developing, think about security as you go through the process. So now the operator, the one that used to actually sit there and watch the thing go, now no, I want you to actually be the coder, so that the problem that you're looking for, that you're waiting for, that you're helping solve that proactively. And that you get new skills as well. So the same thing with the network engineer, the operations person now is learning about Python and Ansible and how to stitch the infrastructure, the application, the data, all of that, into more of a monitoring system. >> So what I'm hearing is that you're taking that notion of run the business, grow the business, transform the business, bring it together, and everybody's responsible for running the business, growing the business, and transforming the business. >> And you're responsible for innovation. >> So it's continuous innovation model versus a stovepipe segmentation model. >> Continuous innovation, continuous improvement, continuous learning. >> Guillermo, I want to give you the final word. Here we are at the beginning of 2019. When you talk to your peers, the CIOs out there, whether it be tech, enterprise, startups, what are some of the biggest challenges, biggest opportunities that are on their plate. >> Yeah, I think it's, we're in an interesting time in IT in the world, where technology's foundational to every business. So my call to action is, there's one organization in the company, in every company, that knows technology, and that's IT. And they know the infrastructure and they know the ops. So the more that we can put those together into helping solve the secure digital business transformation, and not just talking about it from a technology perspective, but how do we use that to really articulate and translate that into business outcomes. And there's a lot in that, it's how do we use our own technology, how do we change our skills? How do we unlearn some things to relearn how to communicate with the business so that we can learn to go faster. >> Guillermo Diaz, Jr, thank you so much for sharing the viewpoint of Cisco and the changing role of the CIO. Dave Vellante and I will be back with lots more coverage here from Cisco Live 2019, in Barcelona, Spain. Thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (futuristic music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live! Europe brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCube's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live! Europe 2019. We're at day three of three days of coverage I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante Our next two guests we're going to talk about privacy data Michelle Dennnedy, VP and Chief Privacy officer at Cisco and Robert Waitman who is the Director of Security and Trust. Welcome back, we had them last year and everything we talked about kinda's happening on steroids here this year >> Yep. >> Welcome back >> Thank you glad to be here >> Thanks for having us >> So security, privacy all go hand in hand. A lot going on. You're seeing more breaches you're seeing more privacy challenges Certainly GDPR's going to the next level. People are, quote, complying here's a gig of data go figure it out. So there's a lot happening, give us the update. >> Well, as we suggested last year it was privacypalooza all year long running up to the enforcement deadline of May 25, 2018. There were sort of two kinds of companies. There's one that ran up to that deadline and said woohoo we're ready to drive this baby forward! And then there's a whole nother set of people who are still sort of oh my gosh. And then there's a third category of people who still don't understand. I had someone come up to me several weeks ago and say what do I do? When is this GDPR going to be a law? I thought oh honey you need a hug >> Two years ago, you need some help. >> And some companies in the US, at least were turning off their websites. Some media companies were in the news for actually shutting down their site and not making it available because they weren't ready. So a lot of people were caught off guard, some were prepared but still, you said people would be compliant, kind of and they did that but still more work to do. >> Lots more work to do and as we said when the law was first promulgated two and a half years ago GDPR and the deadline A, It's just one region but as you'll hear as we talk about our study it's impacting the globe but it's also not the end of anything it's the beginning of the information economy at long last. So, I think we all have a lot to do even if you feel rather confident of your base-level compliance now it's time to step up your game and keep on top of it. >> Before we get into some of the details of the new finding you guys have I want you to take a minute to explain how your role is now centered in the middle of Cisco because if you look at the keynotes data's in the center of a lot of things in this intent based network on one side and you've got cloud and edge on the other. Data is the new ingredient that's feeding applications and certainly collective intelligence for security. So the role of data is critical. This is a big part of the Cisco tech plan nevermind policy and or privacy and these other things you're in the middle of it. Explain your role within Cisco and how that shapes you. >> How we sort of fit in. Well it's such a good question and actually if you watch our story through theCUBE we announced, actually on data privacy day several years ago that data is the new currency and this is exactly what we're talking about the only way that you can operationalize your data currency is to really think about it throughout the platform. You're not just pleasing a regulator you're not just pleasing your shareholders you're not just pleasing your employee base. So, as such, the way we organize our group is my role sits under the COO's office our Chief Operations Office under the office of John Stewart who is our Chief Trust officer. So security, trust, advanced research all live together in operations. We have sister organizations in places like public policy, legal, marketing, the sales groups the people who are actually operationalizing come together for a group. My role really is to provide two types of strategy. One, rolling out privacy engineering and getting across inside and outside of the company as quickly as possible. It's something new. As soon as we have set processes I put them into my sister organization and they send them out as routine and hopefully automated things. The other side is the work Robert and I do together is looking at data valuation models. Working about the economics of data where does it drive up revenue and business and speed time to closure and how do we use data to not just be compliant in the privacy risk but really control our overall risk and the quality of our information overall. It's a mouth full >> So that's interesting and Robert, that leads me to a question when we've seen these unfunded mandates before we saw it with Y2K, the Enron backlash certainly the United States the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. And the folks in the corner office would say oh, here we go again. Is there any way to get more value beyond just reducing risk and complying and have you seen companies be able to take data and value and apply it based on the compliance and governance and privacy policies? >> Dave that's a great question. It's sort of the thought that we had and the hypothesis was that this was going to be more valuable than just for the compliance reasons and one of the big findings of the study that we just released this week was that in fact those investments you know we're saying that good privacy is very good for business. It was painful, some firms stuck their head in the sand and said I don't want to even do this but still, going through the GDPR preparation process or for any of the privacy regulations has taken people to get their data house in order and it's important to communicate. We wanted to find out what benefits were coming from those organizations that had made those investments and that's really what came out in our study this week for international data privacy day we got into that quite a bit. >> What is this study? can you give us some details on it? >> It's the Data Privacy Benchmark study we published this week for international data privacy day. It's sort of an opportunity to focus on data privacy issues both for consumers and for businesses sort of the one day a year kind of like mother's day that you should always think of your mom but mother's day's a good day so you should always think of privacy when you're making decisions about your data but it's a chance to raise awareness. So we published our study this year and it was based on over thirty-two hundred responses from companies around the world from 18 countries all sorts of sizes of companies and the big findings were in fact around that. Privacy has become a serious and a boardroom level issue that the awareness has really skyrocketed for companies who are saying before I do business with you I want to know how you're using my data. What we saw this year is that seven out of eight companies are actually seeing some sales delay from their customers asking those kinds of questions. But those that have made the investment getting ready for GDPR or being more mature on privacy are seeing shorter delays. If you haven't gotten ready you're seeing 60% longer delays. And even more interestingly for us too is when you have data breaches and a lot of companies have them as we've talked about those breaches are not nearly as impactful. The organizations that aren't ready for GDPR are seeing three times as many records impacted by the breach. They're seeing system downtime that's 50% longer and so the cost of the whole thing is much more. So, kind of the question of is this still something good to do? Not only because you have to do it when you want to avoid 4% penalties from GDPR and everything else but it's something that's so important for my business that drives value. >> So the upshot there is that you do the compliance. Okay, check the box, we don't want to get fined So you're taking your medicine basically. Turns into an upside with the data you're seeing from your board. Sales benefit and then just preparedness readiness for breaches. >> Right, I mean it's a nice-- >> Is that right? >> That's exactly right John you've got it right. Then you've got your data house in order I mean there's a logic to this. So then if you figured out where your data is how to protect it, who has access to it you're able to deal with these questions. When customers ask you questions about that you're ready to answer it. And when something bad goes wrong let's say there is a breach you've already done the right things to control your data. You've got rid of the data you don't need anymore. I mean 50% of your data isn't used for anything and of course we suggest that people get rid of that that makes it less available when and if a breach occurs. >> So I got to ask you a question on the data valuation because a lot of the data geeks and data nerds like myself saw this coming. We saw data, mostly on the tech side if you invested in data it was going to feed applications and I think I wrote a blog post in 2007 data's going to be part of the development kits or development environment you're seeing that now here. Data's now part of application development it's part of network intelligence for security. Okay, so yes, check, that's happening. At the CFO level, can you value the data so it's a balance sheet item? Can you say we're investing in this? So you start to see movement you almost project, maybe, in a few years, or now how do you guys see the valuation? Is it going to be another kind of financial metric? >> Well John, it's a great point. Seeing where we're developing around this. So I think we're still in somewhat early days of that issue. I think the organizations that are thinking about data as an asset and monetizing its value are certainly ahead of this we're trying to do that ourselves. We probed on that a little bit in the survey just to get a sense of where organizations are and only about a third of organizations are doing those data mature things. Do they have a complete data map of where their stuff is? Do they have a Chief Data Officer? Are they starting to monetize in appropriate ways, their data? So, there's a long way to go before organizations are really getting the value out of that data. >> But the signals are showing that there's value in the data. Obviously the number of sales there's some upside to compliance not just doin it to check the box there's actually business benefits. So how are you guys thinking about this cause you guys are early adopters or leaders in this how are you thinking about the data measurement of it? Can you share your insights on that? >> Yeah, so you know, data on the balance sheet Grace Hopper 1965, right? data will one day be on the corporate balance sheet because it's in most cases more valuable than the hardware that processes. This is the woman who's making software and hardware work for us, in 1965! Here we are in 2019. It's coming on the balance sheet. She was right then, I believe in it now. What we're doing is, even starting this is a study of correlation rather than causation. So now we have at least the artifacts to say to our legal teams go back and look at when you have one of our new improved streamline privacy sheets and you're telling in a more transparent fashion a deal. Mark the time that you're getting the question. Mark the time that you're finishing. Let's really be much more stilletto-like measuring time to close and efficiency. Then we're adding that capability across our businesses. >> Well one use case we heard on theCUBE this week was around privacy and security in the network versus on top of the network and one point that was referenced was when a salesperson leaves they take the contacts with them. So that's an asset and people get sued over it. So this again, this is a business policy thing. so business policy sounds like... >> Well in a lot of the solutions that exist in the marketplace or have existed I've sat on three encrypted email companies before encrypted email was something the market desired. I've sat on two advisory boards of-- a hope that you could sell your own data to the marketers. Every time someone gets an impression you get a micro cent or a bitcoin. We haven't really got that because we're looking on the periphery. What we're really trying to do is let's look at what the actual business flow and processes are in general and say things like can we put a metric on having less records higher impact, and higher quality. The old data quality in the CDO is rising up again get that higher quality now correlate it with speed to innovation speed to close, launch times the things that make your business run anyway. Now correlate it and eventually find causal connections to data. That's how we're going to get that data on the balance sheet. >> You know, that's a great point the data quality issue used to be kind of a back office records management function and now it's coming to the fore and I just make an observation if you look at what were before Facebook fake news what were the top five companies in the United States in terms of market value Amazon, Google, Facebook was up there, Microsoft, Apple. They're all data companies and so the market has valued them beyond the banks, beyond the oil companies. So you're starting to see clearer evidence quantifiable evidence that there's value there. I want to ask you about we have Guillermo Diaz coming up shortly, Michelle and I want to ask you your thoughts on the technical function. You mentioned it's a board level issue now, privacy. How should the CIO be communicating to the board about privacy? What should that conversation be like? >> Oh my gosh. So we now report quarterly to the board so we're getting a lot of practice We'll put it that way. I think we're on the same journey as the security teams used to you used to walk into the board and go here's what ransomware is and all of these former CFOs and sales guys would look at you and go ah, okay, onto the financials because there wasn't anything for them to do strategically. Today's board metrics are a little soft. It's more activity driven. Have you done your PIAs? Have you passed some sort of a third party audit? Are you getting rejected for third party value chain in your partner communities? That's the have not and da da da. To me I don't want my board telling us how to do operations that's how we do. To really give the board a more strategic view what we're really trying to do is study things like time to close and then showing trending impacts. The one conversation with John Chambers that's always stuck in my head is he doesn't want to know what today's snapshot is cause today's already over give me something over time, Michelle, that will trend. And so even though it sounds like, you know who cares if your sales force is a little annoyed that it takes longer to get this deal through legal well it turns out when you multiply that in a multi-billion dollar environment you're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars probably a week, lost to inefficiency. So, if we believe in efficiency in the tangible supply chain that's the more strategic view I want to take and then you add on things like here's a risk portfolio a potential fair risk reporting type of thing if we want to do a new business Do we light up a business in the Ukraine right now versus Barcelona? That is a strategic conversation that is board level. We've forgotten that by giving them activity. >> Interesting what you say about Chambers. John you just interviewed John Chambers and he was the first person, in the mid 90s to talk about a virtual close, if you remember that. So, obviously, what you're talking about is way beyond that. >> Yeah and you're exactly right. Let's go back to those financial roots. One of the things we talk about in privacy engineering is getting people's heads-- the concept that the data changes. So, the day before your earnings that data will send Chuck Robbins to jail if someone is leaking it and causing people to invest accordingly. The day after, it's news, we want everyone to have it. Look at how you have to process and handle and operationalize in 24 hours. Figuring out those data stories helps it turn it on its head and make it more valuable. >> You know, you mentioned John Chambers one of the things that I noticed was he really represented Silicon Valley well in Washington DC and there's been a real void there since he retired. You guys still have a presence there and are doing stuff there and you see Amazon with Theresa Carlson doing some great work there and you still got Oracle and IBM in there doing their thing. How is your presence and leadership translating into DC now? Can you give us an update of what's happening at-- >> So, I don't know if you caught a little tweet from a little guy named Chuck Robbins this week but Chuck is actually actively engaged in the debate for US federal legislation for privacy. The last thing we want is only the lobbyists as you say and I love my lobbyists wherever you are we need them to help give information but the strategic advisors to what a federal bill looks like for an economy as large and complex and dependent on international structure we have to have the network in there. And so one of the things that we are doing in privacy is really looking at what does a solid bill look like so at long last we can get a solid piece of federal legislation and Chuck is talking about it at Davos as was everyone else, which was amazing and now you're going to hear his voice very loudly ringing through the halls of DC >> So he's upping his game in leadership in DC >> Have you seen the size of Chuck Robbins? Game upped, privacy on! >> It's a great opportunity because we need leadership in technology in DC so-- >> To affect public policy, no doubt >> Absolutely. >> And globally too. It's not just DC and America but also globally. >> Yeah, we need to serve our customers. We win when they win. >> Final question, we got to get wrapped up here but I want to get you guys a chance to talk about what you guys announced here at the show what's going on get the plug in for what's going on Cisco Trust. What's happening? >> Do you want to plug first? >> Well, I think a few things we can add. So, in addition to releasing our benchmark study this week and talking about that with customers and with the public we've also announced a new version of our privacy data sheets. This was a big tool to enable salespeople and customers to see exactly how data is being used in all of our products and so the new innovation this week is we've released these very nice, color created like subway maps, you know? They make it easy for you to navigate around it just makes it easy for people to see exactly how data flows. So again, something up on our site at trust.cisco.com where people can go and get that information and sort of make it easy. We're pushing towards simplicity and transparency in everything we do from a privacy standpoint and this is really that trajectory of making it as easy as possible for anyone to see exactly how things go and I think that's the trajectory we're on that's where the legislation both where GDPR is heading and federal legislation as well to try to make this as easy as reading the nutrition label on the food item. To say what's actually here? Do I want to buy it? Do I want to eat it? And we want to make that that easy >> Trust, transparency accountability comes into play too because if you have those things you know who's accountable. >> It's terrifying. I challenge all of my competitors go to trust.cisco.com not just my customers, love you to be there too go and look at our data subway maps. You have to be radically transparent to say here's what you get customer here's what I get, Cisco, here's where my third party's. It's not as detailed as a long report but you can get the trajectory and have a real conversation. I hope everybody gets on board with this kind of simplification. >> Trust.cisco.com we're going to keep track of it. Great work you guys are doing. I think you guys are leading the industry, Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> This is not going to end, this conversation continues will continue globally. >> Excellent >> Thanks for coming on Michelle, appreciate it. Robert thanks for coming on. CUBE coverage here day three in Barcelona. We'll be back with more coverage after this break.

[Narrator] Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE covering Cisco live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona everybody, you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live teach coverage. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with my co-host Stu Miniman. Stu, myself, and John Fur will be here all week. Eric Herzog is here, long time Cube alumn friend, great to see you again. He's the CMO of IBM storage division. he's joined by James Amies who's the head of networks at Advanced, the service provider guys. Welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you again. >> Great thanks for having us. Love being on theCUBE. >> So we love having you. So James let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about Advanced, do you want to dig into some of the networking trends? We're hearing a lot about it here at Cisco Live. >> Yeah thanks, Advanced are a manage service provider, software company based in the UK, one of the largest software companies in the UK, providing entrance solutions for lots of different market verticals, including healthcare, local government, regional government, national infrastructure projects we get involved with, as well charity sector, legal sector, a lot of education work that we do. And it's just real diverse portfolio products that we offer. And with the manage services piece, we also offer complete IT outsourcing. So this is desktop support, telephony support, printer support, all the way back into integration with public cloud platforms and private cloud platforms. The majority of which is our own. >> So Eric, Advanced are both a customer and a partner. >> Right >> Right and so you love Versastack, These guys are I presume are Versastack customers as well? >> Yes Versastack customer in the Versastack as you know integrates Cisco UCS Cisco networking infrastructure, IBM storage of all types, entry products up into the fastest off flash rays with our software spectrum virtualizer, spectrum accelerate family, and James' company is using Versastacks as part of their infrastructure. Which they then offer as a service to end users as James just described. >> So let's talk about some of the big trends that guys are seeing and how you're both responding to customers, and you're responding to your customers. So we're seeing here today, a lot about multi-cloud. We've been hearing that for a while. The network is flattening, you're a network expert, love to get your thoughts on that. Security obviously is a huge topic. End to end management, another big topic, something that IBM is focused on. So James what are the big mega trends that you're seeing that are driving your business decisions and your customers' activities. >> So I think one of the big changes we're seeing is a change from large enterprise scale deployments of a particular type of technology and customers are now choosing because they're informed, the best fit for a particular application or a particular service, and that may be coming to a service provider like ourselves, or for our service product to them, or they're looking for us to run an infrastructure service for them, or integrate with a public cloud offering. So the competition of the public cloud for service providers is key. And I think people were looking around a few years ago, thinking how do we compete to this. Well with the partnerships that we have with IBM and Cisco, it gives us a very compelling, competitive offering where we can turn around and say, well we can give you a like for like, but we can give you a slightly better service, because we can give you guaranteed availability. We can give you guaranteed price points, and we this is all backed with key vendor certified designs, so we're not talking about going out and developing a solution that takes as maybe 18 months, to take to market, this is understanding a requirement for a quick Q and A with a customer, align that to a reference architecture, that we can literally just pick up off the shelf, deploy into our data centers using the standard building blocks that we use across the business. So Nexus, nine K seven K's, or our standard` bread and butter inside the data center environment, as Eric pointed out, Cisco UCS is our key intel compute platform that we use. And the storewise IBM product has been a real true success story for us. So we started off being a mixed vendor house, where we would align storage requirement based with what we could find in the market that was a good fit. But the storewise products just basically just allowed us to standardize, and the speed of deployment is one of the key things. So we started out with a very lengthy lead time to serve as ready. Which is when we start charging for revenue. And if we want a 90 day build, well we've got a lot of professional service time, a lot of engineering time getting that ready to go and take to the customer, and then we turn it on, and then we can start seeing revenue from that platform. With Versastack, it's enabled us to accelerate how quickly we can turn that on. And we've seen that drop to literally days through standardization, elements of automation as well. Many of our environments are bespoke because we have such a wide range of different types of customers with different needs. But it allows us to take those standard building blocks, algin them to their needs, and deliver that service. >> James we found the MSP's are often in the middle of those discussions that customers are having on multi-cloud, so you talked a lot about the services you build. Are they also coming to you? Do you tie into the public cloud services? >> Yes. >> Maybe you can help expand a little bit on how that works. Five years ago it was, the public clouds were all going to kill the manage service providers, and what we see is customers can't sort out half of what's going on. They've got to be able to turn to partners like you to be able to figure this out. >> Yeah that's a fantastic question. Because I think three years ago, we'd be talking to our customers, and they were "I am going to this public cloud" or " I am going to build this infrastructure." Whereas now they're making more informed select decisions based on (mumbles) The drive to the hosted office and voice platforms, often by microsoft, is a big drive in many of our ITO customers are going in that direction. But it's how we integrate that with their legacy applications. Some of the ERP solutions that some of our customers use have had millions of pounds of investment into them. And that's not something that I can just turn off and walk away from overnight. So it's how we're integrating that, and we're doing that at the network level, so it's how we're pairing with different service providers, bringing that and integrating that, and offering it to them as a solution. And what we try to position ourselves is really, the same experience regardless of where we're placing IT consumption workload. It doesn't matter if it's inside our data centers, whether we're talking on one of the public cloud platforms, or even on premise, we have quite a few customers that still have significant presence on premise. Because that's right for their business, depending on what they're doing. Especially with some of the research scientists. >> So you've got to deliver flexibility in your architecture. I know you talk a lot about software define, you guys made a big move to software define a couple years ago actually. Maybe discuss how that fits into how you're servicing Advanced and other clients. >> Sure so IBM storage has embraced multi-cloud for several years now. So our solutions, well of course they work with IBM cloud, and IBM cloud private work with Amazon. They work with Azure, Google Cloud. And in fact, some of our products for example, the Versastack not only is Advanced using it, but we've got probably 40 or 50 public small medium sized cloud providers, that are public references for the Versastack, and spectrum protect, which is our back-up product, number one in the enterprise back-up space, spectrum protect has got at least 300 cloud providers, medium, small, and big who offer the engine underneath, for their backup as a service, is spectrum protect. So we make sure that whether it be our transparent cloud tiering, our cyber resiliency technology, what we do in back up archive. Object storage works with essentially, all cloud providers, that way someone like James, a CSP, MSP, can leverage our products, and we like I said, we got tons of public references around Versastack for that. But so can an enterprise, and in fact I saw a survey recently, and it was done in Europe, and in North American, that when you look at a roughly, the two billion US size revenue and up, the average company of that sizing up, will use five different public cloud providers at one time, whether that be due to legal reasons, whether that procurement, the web is really the internet. And the cloud is really just, it's been around for 20 some years. So in bigger accounts, guess who is now involved? Procurement, well we love that you did that deal with IBM cloud, but you are going to get a competitive quote now from Amazon and Microsoft right. So that's driven it, legal's driven it, certain countries right the data needs to stay in that country, even if you're cloudafying it, so to speak. So If the cloud provider doesn't have a data center there, guess what, another GI use different, and then you of course still have some large entities that still allow regional buying patterns, so they'll have three or four different cloud providers, that are quote, certified by corporate, and then you can use whichever one you want. So we make sure that we can take advantage of that wave. At IBM we ride the wave. We don't fight the wave. >> So you've got in that situation, you've got these multi clouds, you've got different API's. You've got different frameworks. How do you abstract all that complexity, you got Cisco coming at it from a networking standpoint, IBM now with red hat is good. They'd be a big player in that, that world VM ware. What do you guys do James, in terms of simplifying all that multi cloud complexity for people? >> I think with some of it, is actually demystifying and it's engaging with our partners to understand what the proposition is, and how we can develop that and align that to, not only in your own business, but more importantly to the needs of our customers. We've got some really really talented technicians work within Advanced. We've got a number of different forums that allow them to feedback their ideas. And we've got the alignments between those partners, and some of those communities, so that we can have an open discussion, and drive some of that thinking forward. But ultimately it's engaging with the customers. So the customers' feedback is key on how we shape and deliver, not only the service to them, but also to the service to other customers. We have a number of customers that are very similar, but they may work in different spaces. Some are even competitive, so we have to tread that line very carefully and safely. But it's a good one to one relationship between the client service managers, the technicians we have inside the business, having that complete 360 communication is key. And that's really the bottom too, is communication. >> James I'd like you to dig into security a little bit. I think we surpassed a couple years ago. I'm not going to go to the cloud because it's not secured to, oh I understand, it's time for me to at least re-evaluate my security, and most likely manage service providers, public clouds are probably more secure than what I had in my data center. But if I've got multiple environments, there's a lot of complexity there, so how do you traverse that, make sure that you've got a comprehensive security practice, not sure all these point solutions, all over the place? >> Yeah so that comes down to visibility. So it's visibility, understanding where all the control points are, within a given infrastructure. And how the landscape looks, so we're working quite closely with a number actually of key Cisco and IBM partners, as well as IBM and Cisco themselves directly. To have a comprehensive offering that allows us to position to our customers, you used to once upon a time. You had one gate. So all we needed is good security on your internet fighting firewall. But now you may have a 10, 20, 30 of those, we need to have consistent policies across those. We need to understand how they're performing, but also potentially if there's any attack vector on one of them, how somebody's trying to look into compromise that. So it's centralized intelligence, and that's where we're starting to look at AI operations to gather all our information. Long gone are the days where you have 20 people sitting in a room just reading screens. Those 20 people now need to see reams and reams of information instantly. Something needs to be caught up to them, so they can make their decision quickly, and access upon it. And that's really where we're positioning ourselves in the market to differentiate. I'm working with few partners to be able to do that. >> Eric talk about your announcement cadence. IBM has big show, Think, coming up in a couple weeks, Cube's going to be there of course. What can we expect from you guys? >> So we're actually going to announce on the fifth before Think. We want to drive end users and our business partners to the storage campus, which probably one of the largest campuses at IBM Think. We'll have over 15 pedestals of demo. And actually multiple demos because we have such a broad portfolio from the all flash arrays to our Versastack offering, to a whole set of modern day protection, management and control for storage. Which manage is going to control storage that's not ours right, our competitor's storage as well. And of course our software Defined storage. So we're going to do a big announcement. The focus of that will be around our storage solutions. These are solutions, blueprints, references, architectures, Jame you mentioned that use our software, and our storage systems that allow reseller or end user to configure systems easily. Think of it as the ultimate recipe for the german chocolate cake, but it's the perfect recipe. It's tried it's true it's tested, it's been on the food channel 27 times and everybody loves it. That's what we do with our solutions blueprints. We'll all have some announcements around modern data protection and obviously a big focus of IBM storage is been in the AI space. So both storage as an AI platform for AI applications workloads, but also the incorporation of AI technology into our own storage systems and software. So we'll be having announcements around that on February fifth, going into Think, which will be the week after in San Francisco. >> Great so I'm hearing trusted, data protection plays into that. Ai intelligence, machine intelligence and I'm also hearing heterogeneity, multiple platforms whether it's your storage you said, or competitor's storage. Now does that also include the cloud sphere? Without announcing anything, but you guys have -- >> Yeah. >> I've seen your pictures ads Azure. It's AWS, I mean that continues yes? >> Absolutely so whether it be what we do from back up in archive right. Let's take the easy one, so we support not only the protocol of IBM cloud object storage, which we acquired, and allows you to have object storage either on premise or in a cloud instantiation. But we also support the S3 protocol, so for example our spectrum scale software, giant scale out in fact, the two fastest super computers in the world, use spectrum scale. Over 450 petabytes running on spectrum scale. And they can tier to an object store that supports S3. Or it can tier to IBM cloud and object storage. So we have IBM storage customer that's great. If you're using the S3 protocol, you can tier to that at well. So that's just one example. Same thing we do for cyber resiliency, so for a cyber resiliency perspective, we can do things with any cloud vendor of an air gap right. And so you can do that, A with tape, but you can also do that with the cloud. So if your cloud is your backup archive replication repository, then you can always roll back to a known good copy. You don't have to pay the ransom right. Or when you clean up the malware, you can roll back to a known good copy, and we provide that across all of the platforms in a number of different ways, our protect family, our new product safe guard copy for the main frame that we announced it on October. So all that allows us to be multi-cloud resiliency, as well as how do we connect to multi-cloud, back up archive automated tiering to all kinds of clouds, whether it be IBM cloud, and of course I'm a share holder, so I love that. But at the same time we're realistic. Lots of people us Amazon, Google, Azure, and like I said there's thousands of mid to small cloud providers all over the world. And we support them too. We engage with everyone. >> What about SAS, one of the questions we've been trying to squint through, and understand is, because when you talk about five cloud providers, there's obviously infrastructures of service, and then there's service providers like Advanced, and then there's like a Gazillion SAS companies. >> Right. >> Lot of data in there. >> And a lot of Data in there. How should we think about protecting that data, securing that data? Is that up to the SAS vendor, and thou shalt not touch or should that be part of the scope of a storage company? >> Well so what we do is we engage with the SAS vendor, so we have a number of different SAS companies in fact, one was on theCUBE two years ago with us. They were a start up in the cybersecurity space, and all of it's delivered over SAS. What they do is in that case, they use our flash system product line, they get the performance they need to deliver SAS. They want no bottle necks. Because obviously you have to go over the network when you're doing SAS. And then also what they do is data encryption at rest. So when the data is brought it because we have on our flash arrays, the capability in most of our product line, especially the flash systems, to have no performance suit on encrypt or decrypt because it's hardware embedded, they're able to have the data at rest encrypted for all their customers that gives them a level of security when it's at rest on their site. At the same time we give them the right performance they need to have softwares and service. So we probably have 300,400 different SAS companies who are the actual software vendor and their deployment model is softwares and service, by the way we do that as well. As I mentioned over 300 cloud providers today have a backup as a service and the engine needs a spectrum protect or spectrum protect plus, but they may call it something else. In fact we just had a public reference out from Silver String, which is out in the UK. And all they do is Cyber resiliency backup and archive, that's their service. They have their own product, but then spectrum protect, and spectrum protect plus is the engine underneath their product. So that's an example, in this case, of back up as a service, which I would argue is not infrastructure. But more of an application. But then true what you call real application providers like cybersecurity vendors. We have a vendor who in fact, does something for all of the universities and colleges in the United States. They have about 8,000 of them, including the junior colleges. And they run all of their bookstores, so when you place an order all their AR and PR, everything they do is from this SAS vendor. They're in the northeast and they've got like I said, about 8,000 colleges and universities in the US and Canada. And they offer this, if you will, bookstore as a SAS service. And the students use it, the university uses it. And of course the bookstores are designed to at least make a little money for the University. And they all use that. So that's another example, and they use our flash systems as well. And then they back up that data internally with spectrum protect because they obviously it's the financial data as well as the inventory of all of these bookstores all over the United States at the colligate level. >> Right. >> Now James we got to wrap, but just to give you the final word, UK specialist right, so Brexit really doesn't affect you. Is that a fair statement or? >> It will do yes. >> How so? >> I think it's too early to tell. And no one really knows. I think that's what all the debates are about, is trying to understand that. And for us, I think we're just watching and observing. >> And staying focused on your customers obviously >> Yeah. >> So no predictions as to what's going to happen. When I was in the UK-- >> Not from me. a few weeks ago I heard both sides. You know oh it's definitely going to happen, oh it might not happen. But okay, again give you the last word. What's your focus over the next 12, 18 months? >> Our focus is really about visibility so Dave touched on that when we were talking about the security. For customers understanding where their data is, where their exposure points are. That's our key focus. And Versastack and the IBM storewise products underpin all of those offerings that we have. And that will continue to be so moving forward. >> Guys great to see you. Thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. And our pleasure hosting you. >> Great thank you really appreciate it. >> You're really welcome, alright keep it right there everybody. We'll be back. Dave Velante with Stu Minamin from Cisco live in Barcelona. (electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from Barcelona Spain, it's theCUBE. Covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hi everyone welcome back to the theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live! Europe 2019. I'm John Furrier and my co-host Stu Miniman, Dave Vellante is out there as well co-hosting this week. Our next guest is John Apostolopoulos who's the VP and CTO for the Enterprise Networking Business, Unit Lab Director for the Innovation Labs. Here to talk with us about AI and some great innovations. John thanks for coming on theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you for inviting me, pleasure to be here. >> So, Cisco has some big announcements, the messages coming together certainly the bridge for the future, bridge for tomorrow, whatever the phrase is. You know, kind of looking at that new world connecting on premise, cloud, ACI anywhere, hyper-flex anywhere, lot of complexity, being mis-tracked the way with software, separate from the V-Comp from the hardware, lot of scale in the cloud and IoT and all around the edge. So software is a big part of this. >> Oh yes. >> So can't help but think, okay complexity, scale, you see Facebook using machine learning. Machine learning and AI operations now, a real conversation for Cisco. >> Yeah. >> Talk about what that is, how are you guys looking at AI, and machine learning in particular, it's been around for a while. What's your thoughts on Cisco's position and opportunity? >> Sure, yeah. Cisco's been investing or using AI for many, many years. What happens to Cisco, like most companies, we haven't really talked about the machine learning as a term because machine learning is a tool used to solve different problems. So you talk about, what are the customer problems we have? And then we saw, no matter how good our solution is, but we haven't really talked about the details about the how but, we've using at Cisco, like myself from past careers and so forth for many many years some machine learning. Security has been using it for multiple decades for example. >> And where's the use case for machine learnering, because it's one of things where there's different versions and flavors of machine learning. Machine learning we know powers AI and data feeds machine learning, so do you have all these dependencies and all these things going on, how do you...how should someone think about sorting through machine learning? >> Well machine learner itself that term is a very broad term, it's almost as big as computer science, right? So that's where a lot of the confusion comes in. But what happens is you can look up what types of problems we want to solve, and when you try to look at what types of problems we want to solve, some of them...for example some problems you can exploit the fact that the laws of physics that apply and if the laws of physics apply, you should use those laws. We can either figure out that if we drop this, this will fall at some speed by measuring it and using a machine learning or we have gravitational force and friction with the air and re-account for that and figure it out. So the many ways to solve these problems and we want to choose the best method for solving each one of them. >> And when the people think about Cisco, the first reaction isn't "Oh machine learning... innovator." What are you guys using machine learning for? Where has it been successful? What are you investing in? Where's the innovation? >> Sure sure, so there's a lot of problems here that come into play. If you look at...if you look at a customer problems, one example is all the digital disruption. We have on the order of a million devices, new devices coming on to the network every hour throughout the world. Now, what are those devices? How should you treat them? With machine learning we're able to identify what the devices are and then figure out what the network caches should be. For instance when IoT device you want to protect it, protect it from others. Another big topic is operations. As you know people spend, I think it was The Gardner identified that people spend about sixty-billion dollars per year on operations costs, why is it so much? Because most of the operations are manual, about 95% manual, which also means that these changes are slow and error-prone. What we do there is we basically use machine learning to do intelligent automation and we get a whole bunch of insights about what's happening and use that to drive intelligent automation. You may have heard about Assurance, which was announced at Cisco Live, one year ago at Barcelona and both in the campus with DNA Center we announced Cisco DNA Center Assurance and the data center went out, network and network analytic engine. And what both of these do is they look at what's happened to the network, they apply machine learning to identify patterns and from those patterns, identify, is there a problem, where's the problem? How can we...what's the root cause and then how can we solve that problem quickly? >> John, can you help us connect where this fits in a multi-cloud environment? Because what we've seen the past couple of years is when we talk about managing the network, a lot of what I might be in charge of managing, is really outside of my purview and therefore I could imagine something like ML is going to be critically important because I'm not going to be touching it but therefore I still need to have data about it and a lot of that needs to happen. >> Yeah, well one of the places ML helps with multi-cloud is the fact you need to figure out which...where to send your packets, and this comes with SD-WAN. So with SD-WAN we often have multiple paths available to us and let's say with the move to Office365, people are using the SaaS service and they want to have very good interactivity. One of the things we realized is that by carefully selecting which path we can use, at the branch and the campus too, we could get a 40% reduction in the latency. So that's a way we choose which colo or which region or which side of Office365 to send the packets to, to dramatically reduce latency. >> What's the role of data? Because when you think about it, you know, moving a packet from point A to point B, that's networking. Storage acts differently 'cause you store data data's got to come back out and be discovered. Now if you have this horizontal scalability for cloud, edge, core coming into the middle, get of the data 'cause machine learning needs the data, good data, not dirty data you need clean data. How do you see that evolving, how should customers then be thinking about preparing for either low-hanging use-cases. Just what's your thoughts and reaction to that? >> Yeah well the example you gave is a very interesting example. You described how you need to get data from one point to another, for instance, for my device to a data center with applications over the cloud. And you also mentioned how the many things between. What we care about, not necessarily the application data, we care about... You know we want to have the best network performance so your applications are working as well as possible. In that case we want to have an understanding of what's happening across a path so we want to pull to telemetry in all kinds of contexts to be able to understand, is there problem, where's the problem, what is it, and how to solve it. And that's what Assurance does. We pull this data from the access points the switches, from the routers, we pour, pull in all kinds of contextual information to get a rich understanding of the situation, and try to identify if there's a problem or not, and then how to solve it. >> Its the classic behavioral, contextual, paradigm of data but now you guys are looking at it from a network perspective and as the patterns changed the applications centric, programmability of the network, the traffic patterns are changing. Hence the announcements here but intent-based networking and hyper-flexed anywhere. This is now a new dynamic. Talk about the impact of that from an AI perspective. How are you guys getting out front on that? It's not just North, South, East, West, it's pretty much everywhere. The patterns are, could be application specific at any given point, on a certain segment of a network, I mean it's complex. >> Yeah, its complex. One of the really nice things about intent-based network and those, it fits in really nicely and that was by design, 'cause what happens with intent-based networking, as you know, a user expresses some intent if it's something they want to do. I want to securely onboard the SIoT device, and then it gets activated in the network, and then we use Assurance to see if it's doing the right thing. But what happens is that Assurance part, that's basically gathering visibility and insight in terms of what's happening. That's using machine learning to understand what's happening in the network across all these different parts that you mentioned. And then, what happens is we take those insights and then we make intelligent actions and that's part of the activation. So this...with intent based network in this feedback loop that we have directly ties with using the data for getting insights and then for activation, for intelligent actions. >> John, always want to get the update on the innovation lab, is there anything particular here at the show or, what's new that you can share? >> So we're looking at extending IBN to the cloud, to multi-cloud, to multiple devices so there's a lot of really fascinating work happening there. I believe you're going to be talking to one of my colleagues later, too, T.K. He's, I think, hopefully going to talk about some of the machine learning that's been done and that's already prioritized as you know in encrypted thread analytics. That's an example of where we use machine learning to identify if there's malware in encrypted traffic. Which is really a fascinating problem. >> That's a hard problem to solve. I'm looking forward to that conversation. >> So some members of Cisco, Dave McGrew, in particular, Cisco Fellow, started working on that problem four and a half years ago. Because of his work with other colleagues, he was able and they were able to come up with a solution. So it was a very complicated problem as you saw but through the use of machine learning and many years of investment, plus the fact that Cisco's access to Talos which has, they know the threats throughout the world. They're a list of data in terms of all kinds of threats that's massive. That's pretty powerful. >> The volume, that's where machine learning shines. I mean you see the amount of volume of data coming in, that's where it could do some heavy lifting. >> Exactly, that's one of Cisco's strengths. The fact that we have this massive view on all the threats throughout the world and we can bring it to bear. >> Network security foundation only just creates so much value for apps. Final question for you, for the folks watching, what's in you opinion the most important story here at Cicso Live Barcelona, that people should be paying attention to? >> I think how we are trying to extend across all these different domains and make it like one network for our customers. This is still a journey and it's going to take time but with intent based networking we can do that. We're going across campus, WAN, data center to multi-cloud. >> How hard is cross domain, just put it in perspective. Cross domains reversal and having visibility into these, from a latency, from a physics standpoint, how hard is it? >> It's quite hard, there's all kinds of technical challenges but there's even other sorts of challenges. This is WiFi, right? IEEE 802.11 defines the QoS standard for wireless and that's completely different than how the internet group ITEF defined it for wired. So even between wireless and wired, there's a lot of work that has to be done and Cisco's leading that effort. >> And having all that data. Great to have you on John, thanks for spending the time and demystifying machine learning and looking forward to this encrypted understanding with machine learning, that's a hard problem, looking forward to digging into that. Again, truly, the breakthroughs are happening with machine learning and adding values with application centric world. It's all about the data, it's theCUBE bringing you the data from Barcelona, I'm John with Stu Mini, stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

(upbeat dance music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's the Cube. Covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to the Cubes live coverage day two of three days of wall to wall coverage here in Europe, in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live! 2019. I'm John Ferrier with Dave Vellante, Stu Miniman hosting a great load of interviews this week here for Cisco Live! Guys, kicking off day two. Day one was all the big announcements. Cisco putting in all the announcements really setting it in and the messaging coming together. The product portfolios filling out. Clearly, Cisco is adopting a path to the cloud. Taking their data centered business, securing that, bringing that data center into the cloud, kind of hybrid, Multicloud. Big message around Multicloud and then under the hood, data center. Traffic patterns are changing, it's not a rip and replace, it's an extension to the environment. Cisco's intent based networking plus cloud plus cloud center management. Lot of stuff. We did discuss that yesterday. But I want to get your take. Is Cisco's positioning viable and what does it mean vis a vis the competition because Cisco is a blue chip tech player. Certainly have zillions of customers. Very relevant. This is a huge impact, how they position themselves, Stu. >> So John, you remember a few years ago we were saying "Hyper scale clouds, the public cloud providers are going to take over the world" and boy, Cisco's in trouble because if a third or half of the market all the sudden evaporates from them, those enterprise buyers of switches and routers and everything else like that, Cisco is doomed. Well, you know, we listened to the keynote yesterday and Cisco's talking about all of their solutions anywhere and when you go through the ecosystem of public cloud, hybrid cloud, multicloud. Say does Cisco have a play there? And the answer is absolutely. It's not just the AppD acquisition, which has software and AWS but SD Wan is going to be a critical component to get from my data centers to the public clouds. Cisco has software and solutions and consulting to help customers in all of these environments so we always know that there's partnerships and there's competition. There's a lot of players out there but it was good to see them talking a lot about what they are doing with Kubernetes, with Amazon because you can't talk about cloud, either public cloud or multicloud without first talking about Amazon. Last year, we were a little critical, John, and said "Okay, Google's great but Google's number three or four." So, you got to be there with Amazon, you got to be there with Microsoft, and ServiceField. We've already interviewed a couple of service providers, always been a strength for Cisco to be in there and so good positioning. We talked yesterday a bunch about the bridge to possible and where to go but the more I think about that, anywhere is what Cisco's branded everything and that's when you talk Multicloud. Multicloud really a whole bunch of clouds and a whole bunch of things and therefore, I need a player that's going to help give me coverage in all of these environments and Cisco is making a strong case to be that. >> And Dave so Stu's right. A couple years ago, we were critical of Cisco and I think rightfully so. I think the whole industry looked at them as not in the middle of the fairway and certainly the recovery shot for Cisco is really strong because a lot's changed. Go back a few years. They didn't have a good ecosystem for developers. They didn't have a good open source position. They kind of were, do I go up the stack or not but they had the core networking so a lot of people were saying, "Hey, if Cisco doesn't make a move, they're doomed." We were one of them so a lot's changed. You're seeing the adoption of microservices, containers, APIs, the growth of DevNet that Susie Wee has initiated. It's clear proof, in my opinion. Then you got the data center guys saying, "Hey, we can take networking and take this and enable cloud." So Cisco, making good moves, put themselves in pole position for growth. >> Well I think the first point is, if you roll back 10 years ago, it was not just Cisco we were critical of, it was clear to us that cloud was where all the growth was and if you didn't have a public cloud, you were going to be in trouble unless you developed a cloud strategy. So, certainly Cisco, Dell EMC, now you know Dell MC, Vmware, none of them really owned a public cloud strategy and five years ago, they had to figure it out. Well, they figured out that actually managing Multiclouds is a great opportunity and so Cisco's got a viable strategy. Networks between clouds are going to flatten, they're going to need management. It's specifically, as it relates to Cisco and maybe their competition, they have to position themselves as our Multicloud management system is higher performance, and more secure than the competition. That's what they have to sell their customers on and the second piece of that is they get a transition from selling ports to selling software. And they're making that transition so, I like their strategy by the way, I also like Vmware's strategy. They capitulated to AWS, and now they're tight with AWS. IBM went out and paid two billion dollars for software so they've got a cloud strategy. Oracle's got a cloud strategy, Microsoft's got a great cloud strategy so if you go through and tick off-- >> They have clouds so let's just understand something. There is clouds and then cloud strategies so Amazon. >> The $34 billion that IBM is paying for Red Hat is giving them a Multicloud strategy more than just saying we have a bunch of data centers and bare metal. >> So they play in both, right? And maybe not so much in the public cloud, I would argue that their public cloud has failed to meet their expectations like IBM. And that's why they had to pay $34 billion for Red Hat. I would say just the opposite about Microsoft, their public cloud strategy has been an enormous success and they're very well positioned for Multicloud. >> Okay so let's just put it on the table. So, Cisco looks at the public cloud as partners, not competitors so Amazon, Assure, Google aren't competing with Cisco. Are they or are they partnering? Well, understanding competition is all about understanding who has a cloud so I would say Cisco's strategy to partner just like SAP did, just like everyone else and Dell did, that's the competitive, not cloud so, or maybe. This is the question; are the public clouds competitive to Cisco? >> They're frienemies, John. >> Oh no, the answer is yes, there is no question about it. They're growing at 20, 30, 40% a year. Cisco and IBM, HP they're growing at much lower, single digits. >> So John, we know if Amazon, if there is a profitable space that they can offer, a competitive service, they will. Security, you said, Cisco's got a great position security both what they've had for a long time and they've done acquisitions like Duo more recently and we've seen lots of pieces of the public cloud ecosystem that Cisco's bought over the last few years. Clicker was one that we've spent some time talking about but absolutely, Amazon goes after some of those pieces so they're going to partner. Cisco's got, the last I checked, at least three dozen products on the AWS marketplace but they can live there but there will be competition. >> Cisco's got some huge assets in this game, they got 800,000 plus customers, they are 60% of the networking market so they own the install base. It's really the only market you can think of that's a major market where the dominant player still owns 60% of the market and they've never been able to. >> Cisco for networking and Vmware for the hypervisor are very similar in that case and both have now had a similar strategy as to how their going to multicloud. >> Well, that's the most interesting competitive dynamic, in my view, is Vmware and it's acquisition of Nicira and obviously Cisco. Cisco's not going to take this lying down, they've got ACI and they claim number one. They didn't say whose data that was. I was looking and squinting for that is that IDC that got their four star. >> Well lets talk about growth because you know how I always complain about market researches aren't on the mark in terms of the reality of where the market is. So, you've mentioned growth. So, are we, if we're early in cloud growth, that's where the growth is, what is the cloud adoption going to look like over the next 10 to 20 years? Is it going to look more like public cloud or is it going to look more like on premises evolving to cloud operations and if the growth of cloud operations is all things, wide area network, image and SV wan, then there's more growth coming. So, if that's the case, is Cisco going to be able to capture that growth for the future? >> Well, in terms of growth, I think AWS is on it's way to being a $100 billion revenue company. And that's pretty impressive given where they are today, I mean they're going to triple in revenue so that's where the growth is. Cisco's already participating in a huge tam. What they've got to do is hold on to that business and identify new opportunities where they can manage multicloud instances and compete effectively with Vmware who's coming at it from the hypervisor and now, as I said yesterday, try to do to networks and storage what it did for systems and then IBM, Red Hat coming at it really from the applications perspective and with a services view. Microsoft, with a foot in both camps. You got Oracle in it's little niche. It's just a really interesting. >> Well, you've got an installed base that's moving into the cloud. You got net new companies that are going to be started. Might have on prem gone full cloud, this is the question that everyone's going to ask. I think Cisco can take their existing base with moving packets from point A to B and storing and making data more intelligence. Moving data around is a big networking phenomenon. >> Here's the question; Andy Jassy would say, "We believe there are going to be far fewer data centers in the future," that most data is going to live in the public cloud. The likes of Mike Liddle, Charlie Robbins, et cetera, I think they see the world as a hybrid world. That there's going to be more data that's in a hybrid, on prem plus cloud then is going to be in the public. >> I love Andy Jassy but I'll just say, first of all and I'm saying this biased on his perspective and I think he's right at one level. Why wouldn't Amazon see people moving data centers to the cloud? I get that. I say that it's going to be in the networks. That's where the action will be. Where are the networks, are the networks in the cloud, are the networks on premise, are the networks on a phone, IOT? So, you see IOT and Edge coming together, if it's all one network, then you're going to have the values going to be in the network, not necessarily the clouds per say or in shared value. >> You talk about Edge computing and IOT, Cisco's got Meraki which is going strong. SD Wan is a critical component in this multicloud piece. They're really posed to drive this next generation of 5G, not something we've dug into a lot yet but it is finally coming really soon here and Cisco has a lot of those pieces to be able to hit the next wave. >> It always comes back to the data, in my opinion, and the leverage point for data are sass. If you own the applications business or you're doing well there, you're in a good position. All the data's running over Cisco networks so that puts them in a really good position and as we know the likes of AWS and Microsoft, Alibaba, et cetera. They are trying to get as much data into their cloud as possible. >> And what I loved yesterday in the keynote is data was actually one of the central components that they talked about which the Cisco I know of 10 or 20 years ago, that was just bits that ran over our pipes. So they understand the value of data and their drive into that market. >> Well, we've been saying on the Cube now for nine years. Data's at the center of the value proposition. Data at the center, value proposition, this is actually happening. We see a lot of growth in cloud. Dave, good commentary. Stu, well done. We're going to have Sasha Gupta, all the leaders coming on the Cube here from Cisco. We'll breakdown and we're going to ask them the tough questions. Stay with us for day two coverage here in the Cube. Live in Barcelona, I'm John Ferrier, Stu Miniman, Dave Vellante breaking down all the action. We'll be right back with more after this short break. (light techno music)

(music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCube. Covering Cisco Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's eco system partners. >> Welcome back everyone. Live here in Barcelona. It's theCubes coverage day two of three days of coverage. I'm John Furrier With Stu Miniman and Dave Vellante. Dave in this segment. Our next guest is Gordon Thompson, Vice President, Global Enterprise Network from Cisco Worldwide. Run a lot of countries here in Cisco. Knows the territory. Knows the lay of the land in Europe, Middle East, Africa and Russia. Now global. Welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you very much. Glad to be with you. >> You're on stage in the keynote. You say we're here in Barcelona. Lot of action in Europe. Europe's different than North America, but you start to see them leading the trends on how to handle these complex environments like highly regulated compliance. GDPR, we've been hearing about that. Security, cyber security. So a lot of trends in Europe are actually leading in some areas. That's impacting the network. Your thoughts on this show so far. How's it going? >> Yeah. I think, there's a fundamental phenomenal opportunity for our customer base and for Cisco at the moment in terms of where technology is going. It's mostly being driven by software innovation in the business. For many, many years we built world class hardware and a software operating system that did one thing. It provided connectivity. But it did one thing. Reliable, secure, performance based connectivity but it did one thing. The opportunity now, going back to your question is we're developing software that doesn't do one thing. It's software that does multiple different things. On top of that hardware that therefore helps solve some of the challenges around compliance and all of these sorts of things, but at the same time start to provide much deeper insight and analytics into what's going on in your environment and that then starts to let you say, hey, there's information here in the network that I've never been exposed to before, that I'm now exposed to and I can start to do something meaningful with that data. That's the opportunity, I think, for our customers is how they monetize that. How they use that information. Providing that information on a real time basis is going to be the critical thing. We see lots, it's a very competitive environment Amir, we see lots of business in Amir looking to see how they can use technology to drive differentiation for them in the market and they're beginning to realize that data is the key to being able to do that and they're now seeing how much data they've got on their network that if they can get exposure to they can start to use in a meaningful way. Really exciting. It's very innovative here. We're seeing customers starting to realize how important the network is. >> In your keynote, you made a bunch of people uncomfortable saying you have to change. >> Yeah. >> And then admitted I don't like it when people tell me I have to change, but you need to change. What do they have to change? >> They have to think about truly how they're architecting and designing their networks. As I said earlier, on Ciscos an organization's been phenomenally successful but we've really done one thing in 30 years, provide reliable, secure, connectivity. And over the last four years our innovation strategy has changed to say we're not just going to deliver connectivity, we're going to look at how we can deliver automation on top of the network. We're going to look at how we deliver security embedded in the network. We're going to look at how we take real time analytical insights off of the network. When you think differently about how you use a network you'll then start to think differently about the value the network can bring. I was making that comment 'cause I was wanting customers to think about the network no longer just being something that's going to deliver connectivity. It's something that will absolutely drive business transformation for them if they approach it with that thought process in mind. It was really a challenge to get people to think slightly differently. >> Yeah. Wake up a little bit and say, okay, what's going on here? And I want to get your thoughts on the trend because the tail winds, I think that Cisco's feeling right now is, in every major inflection point there's always complexity and abstraction layers of software always take away the complexities. Software check, big time trend. But cloud scale and horizontal scale now with the Enterprise, HyperFlex out to the edge, ACI Anywhere, so you start to see Cisco as one large scalable network with complexities that's being managed by software across domains. This seems to be a beautiful formula for what customers want which is secure networks. Do you see it that way? Is that a major wave you're riding? Is that what customers are saying? Because I think you're getting at something that's important which is I'm moving packets around, moving data around but I got to put my solution out in front of customers. The applications. How they access and engage. These are big picture items, but what's your thoughts on this? >> Okay. It's interesting, right. 'cause what we've created is, so we've created this software overlay network in various different areas. We've created a fabric. In the data center we've created an ACI fabric. In the Branch and the Campus we've created what we call software defined access fabric. And in the ONE we've created this software defined ONE fabric with our WHIPTAIL acquisition. Also with Meraki. The interesting thing is people have created these software fabrics to drive southbound automation onto the network to save money. To move more quickly. What we are saying to our customers is actually the value isn't just about driving southbound automation onto each of these fabrics, it's about how you take information from each of these fabrics, connect that information together holistically and then start to provide more value around behavioral analytics. To secure your environment more. Et cetera, et cetera. You're going to see individual fabrics, but then what Dave Goeckeler was talking about was how he connects these fabrics or domains together. Connecting them together is going to help us secure the environment even more effectively. It's also going to help us analyze what's going on more effectively as well. This is really the sweet spot, I think, for us to work more closely with our customers. >> Talk about security because I think this is a great point. I think if you guys can, well you have the fabrics now, product portfolio has broadened. It's filled in, but security still is hot. It's still number one. You guys are embedding that foundational into the network and lifting the data up to create insight. What are some of the actionable things that you're seeing enabled from, one the fabrics coming together and talk about the dynamic of security specifically because if you don't fix the security paradigm at the network level, it's a house of cards. Everything crashes. That's my opinion. Your thoughts. Do you agree with that? >> I hope that nothing crashes at entity, but the key thing, I think is, we like to say we put security in the network, whereas we looked at all of the other networking vendors applying security on top of the network. >> What's the difference? Explain the difference. >> In our own, one word each with two letters in them but a massive difference in terms of what they do. Ultimately the network can provide us with loads of contextual information around what's happening in the environment. It's about how you use that information in a real time basis to help make better security decisions. It's really taking the value of networking devices and passing that information from a network switch or a wireless controller to a security policy control capability is really where we start to see value come together. And it sees things that are important to us. For example, I met with a sales leader recently in a very large pharmaceutical company in Europe, and their problem was their salespeople were handing in their resignation but they were doing it the day after they'd taken all the intellectual property out of the company. They had gone and taken all of the customer data base. They'd put it on a stick. They put it in their pocket. And they went away. It happens every day. The challenge is the network should be able to see a behavioral change. If that was you or me we normally perform the same activities on the network every day. We don't really change what we do, but the minute we start to go to old servers to download information that we haven't downloaded in years, you know, that's a behavioral change. And the network should be able to identify that, pass that information to the network administrator and deal with it so we can stop that sort of data leakage from our organization. These are the sorts of things that I think are exciting. >> And Cisco's unique because of the scope of your portfolio or the technology? >> Well, a bit of both. Cisco's unique because of the scope of the technology, but it's also about the amount of information we take off the network. You know, people talked about in this software overlay world the network becoming, hardware becoming commoditized. Oh, Cisco, your hardwire is going to be commoditized. We'll move to white box. The reality is it's the power of our hardware, our ASIC Design that allows us to pull all of this information off the network. People are beginning to realize how important data is now. And now they're beginning to see actually hardware's really important. Although it's the software that does all the sexy stuff, hardware's really important. We're beginning to see customers recognize two things, the breadth of the portfolio, as we mentioned earlier on, but also the power of the hardware to allow the software to do everything it does. >> Gordon, I know you got to go. Thanks for coming on. One final question while you're here 'cause I know you have a unique perspective. Want to get it real quick. Quick soundbite here. Global is now a big part of everyone's plan. Global economy. You have good experience globally with Cisco and also here in Amir, how should companies think about global networking? What's your insight into how people should start thinking about global architectures, global clouds, global networks? Your thoughts. >> I think every organization is looking to build out these capabilities. There's absolutely no doubt they are, but I think the way to approach it nowadays with all of the software capabilities we have, is to build bit by bit, right? To build your networks in different islands and then look to how you join those islands together. I think, ultimately, that's how most organizations are looking to move forward. From our point of view, I think, we'll look to connect those islands or fabrics together with the power of data. Ultimately, I think, we've always said data is the new oil, but I think, truly in the networking industry now, data is the new oil and it's truly how organizations will differentiate themselves in the future. >> Gordon, thank you for spending the time on the Cube. I know you got to hard stop. Appreciate it. >> No problem. >> Thank you for your precious time. It's the Cube live coverage from Barcelona. I'm John Furrier with Dave Elante. More live coverage. Stay with us after this short break. (techno music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, its theCUBE, covering Cisco Live! Europe, brought to you by Cisco, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain, for Cisco Live! Europe 2019, I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Dave Vellante as well as Stu Miniman has been co-hosting all week, three days of coverage, we're in day two. We're here with very special guest, we're in the DevNet Zone, and we're here with the leader of the DevNet team of Cisco, Susie Wee, Senior Vice President, CTO of Cisco DevNet, welcome, good to see you. >> Thank you, good to see you, and I'm glad that we have you here again in the DevNet Zone. >> You've been running around, it's been super exciting to watch the evolution, we chatted a couple of years ago, okay we're going to get some developer-centric APIs and a small community growing, now it's exploding. (Susie laughs) Feature of the show, the size gets bigger every year. >> It was interesting, yeah, we took a chance on it right? So we didn't know and you took this bet with me is just that the network is becoming programmable, the infrastructure is programmable, and not only is the technology becoming programmable, but we can take the community of networkers, IT infrastructure folks, app developers and get them to understand the programmability of the infrastructure, and it's really interesting that, you know, these classes are packed, they're very deep they're very technical, the community's getting along and, you know, networkers are developers. >> Yeah you know, you nailed it, because I think as a CTO, you understood the dev-ops movement, saw that in cloud. And I remember my first conversation with you like, you know, the network has a dev-ops angle too if you can make it programmable, and that's what it's done, and you're seeing Cisco's wide having this software extraction, ACI anywhere, hyperflux anywhere, connected to the cloud, now Edge. APIs are at the center, the DNA Center platform. >> Yes! >> API First, very successful project. >> Yes yes, it's-- >> This is the new DNA of Cisco is APIs, this is what it's all about. >> It is, it is and you know, like at first, you know, when we started this journey five years ago a few of our products had APIs, like a few of them were programmable. But you know, you don't take your network in overnight, it's programmable when you have this type of thing. But we've been building it in, and now practically every product is programmable, every product has APIs, so now you have a really rich fabric of yeah, security, data center, enterprises and campus and branch networks. Like, and it can now, put together really interesting things. >> Well congratulations, it happened and it's happening, so I got to ask the question, now that it's happening, happened and happening, continuing to happen, what's the impact to the customer base because now you're now seeing Cisco clearly defining the network and the security aspect of what the network can do, foundationally, and then enabling it to be programmable. >> Yeah. >> What's happening now for you guys, obviously apps could take advantage of it, but what else is the side effect of this investment? >> Yeah so, the interesting thing is, if we take a look at the industry at large, what happens is, you kind of have the traditional view of, IT, you know, so if you take a look at IT, you know, what do you need it for? I need it to get my compute, just give me my servers, give me my network, and let's just hope it works. And then it was also viewed as being old, like I can get all this stuff on the cloud, and I can just do my development there, why do I need all of that stuff right? But once you take it, and you know, the industry has come along, what happens is, you need to bring those systems together, you need to modernize your IT, you need to be able to just, you know, take in the cloud services, to take the applications come across, but the real reason you need it is because you want to impact the business, you know, so kind of what happens is like, every business in the world, every, is being disrupted right, and if you take a look, it has a digital disruptor going on. If you're in retail, then, you know, you're a brick and mortar, you know, traditionally a brick and mortar store kind of company, and then you have an online retailer that's kind of starting to eat your lunch, right, if you're in banking, you have the digital disruption like every, manufacturing is starting to get interesting and you know, what you're doing in energy. So all of this has kind of disruption angles, but really the key is that, IT holds the keys. So, IT can sit there and keep its old infrastructure and say, I have all this responsibility, I'm running this machinery, I have this customer database, or you can modernize, right? And so you can either hold your business back, or you can modernize, make it programmable and then suddenly allow cloud native, public, private cloud, deploy new applications and services and suddenly become an innovative platform for the company, then you can solve business problems and make that real, and we're actually seeing that's becoming real. (laughs) >> Well and you're seeing it right in front of us. So a big challenge there of what you just mentioned, is just having the skills to be able to do that but the appetite of this audience to absorb that knowledge is very very high, so for example, we've been here all week watching, essentially Cisco users, engineers, absorb this new content to learn how to basically program infrastructure. >> That's right, and it's not Cisco employees, it's the community, it's the world of like, Cisco-certified engineers like, people who are doing networking and IT for companies and partners around the world. >> And so, what do they have to go through to get from, you know, where they were, not modernized to modernized? >> Yeah, and actually, and that's a good way 'cause when we look back to five years ago, it was a question, like we knew the technology was going to become programmable and the question is, are these network guys, you know, are these IT guys everywhere are they going to stay in the old world are they really going to be the ones that can work in the new world, or are we going to hire a bunch of new software guys who just know it, are cloud native, they get it all, to do it all. Well, it doesn't work that way because to work in oil and gas, you need some expertise in that and those guys know about it, to work in, you know, retail and banking, and all of these, there's some industry knowledge that you need to have. But then you need to pick up that software skill and five years ago, we didn't know if they would make that transition, but we created DevNet to give them the tools within their language and kind of, you know if they do and what we found is that, they're making the jump. And you see it here with everyone behind us, in front of us, like they are learning. >> Your community said we're all in. Well I'm interested in, we've seen other large organizations infrastructure companies try to attract developers like this, I'm wondering is it because of the network, is it because of Cisco? Are there some other ingredients that you could buy, is it the certified engineers who have this appetite? Why is it that Cisco has been so successful, and I can name a number of other companies that have tried and failed, some of them even owned clouds, and have really not been able to get traction with developers, why Cisco? >> Well I mean, I think we've been fortunate in many ways, as we've been building it out but I think part of it, you know like the way any company would have to go about you know, kind of taking on programmability, dev-ops, you know, these types of models, is tough, and it's, there's not one formula for how you do it, but in our case, it was that Cisco had a very loyal community. Or we have, and we appreciate that very loyal community 'cause they are out there, workin' the gear, building the networks like, running train stations, transportation systems you know, running all around the world, and so, and they've had to invest a lot into that knowledge. Now we then, gave them the tools to learn, we said, here's coding 101, here's your APIs, here's how to learn about it, and your first API call will be get network devices. Here's how you automate your infrastructure, here's how you do your things, and because we put it in, they're grabbing on and they're doing it and you know, so, it was kind of having that base community and being respectful of it and yet, bringing them along, pushing them. Like we don't say keep doing things the old way yes, learn software, and we're not going to water down how you have to learn software. Like you're going to get in there, you're going to use Rest APIs, you're going to use Postman, you're going to use Git, and we have that kind of like first track to just get 'em using those tools. And we also don't take an elitist culture like we're very welcoming of it, and respectful of what they've done and like, just teach 'em and let 'em go. And the thing is like, once you do it, like once you spend your time and you go oh, okay, so you get the code from GitHub, I got it, now I see all this other stuff. Now I made my Rest API call and I've used Postman. Oh, I get it, it's a tool. Just, once you've done just that, you are a different person. >> And then it's business impact. >> Then it's business, yeah no and like then you're also able to experiment, like you suddenly see a bigger world. 'Cause you've been responsible for this one thing, but now you see the bigger world and you think differently, and then it's business impact, because then you're like okay, how do I modernize my infrastructure? How can I just automate this task that I do every day? I'm like, I don't want to do that anymore, I want to automate it, let me do this. And once you get that mindset, then you're doing more, and then you're saying wait, now can I install applications on this, boy, my network and my infrastructure can gives lots of business insights. So I can start to get information about what applications are being called, what are being used, you know, when you have retail operations you can say, oh, what's happening in this store versus that store? When you have a transportation system, where are we most busy? When you're doing banking, where is like, are you having mobile transactions or in-store transactions? There's all this stuff you learn and then suddenly, you can, you know, really create the applications that-- >> So they get the bug, they get inspired they stand up some quick sandbox with some value and go wow-- >> Or they use our DevNet Sandbox so that they can start stuff and get experi-- >> It's a cloud kind of mindset of standing something up and saying look at it, wow, I can do this, I can be more contributing to the organization. Talk about the modernization, I want to get kind of the next step for you 'cause the next level for you is what? Because if this continues, you're going to start to see enterprises saying oh, I can play in the cloud, I can use microservices. >> Yes. >> I can tap into that agility and scale of the cloud, and leverage my resources and my investment I have now to compete, you just mentioned that. How is that going to work, take us through that. >> Yeah and there's more, in addition to that, is also, I can also leverage the ecosystem, right? 'Cause you're used to doing everything yourself, but you're not going to win by doing everything yourself, even if you made everything modern, right? You still need to use the ecosystem as well. But you know, but then at that stage what you can do and actually we're seeing this as, like our developers are not only the infrastructure folks, but now, all of the sudden our ISVs, app developers, who are out there writing apps, are able to actually put stuff into the infrastructure, so we actually had some IoT announcements this week, where we have these industrial routers that are coming out, and you can take an industrial router and put it into a police car and because a police car has a dashboard camera, it has a WiFi system, it has on-board computer, tablets, like all of this stuff, the officer has stuff, that's a mobile office. And it has a gateway in it. Well now, the gateway that we put in there does app hosting, it can host containerized applications. So then if you take a look at it, all the police cars that are moving around are basically hosting containerized apps, you have this kind of system, and Cisco makes that. >> In a moveable edge. >> And then we have the gateway manager that does it, and if you take a look at what does the gateway manager do it has to manage all of those devices, you know, and then it can also deploy applications. So we have an ability to now manage, we also have an ability to deploy containers, pull back containers, and then this also works in manufacturing, it works in utility, so you have a substation, you have these industrial routers out there that can host apps, you know, then all of a sudden edge computing becomes real. But what this brings together is that now, you can actually get ISVs who can actually now say, hey I'm an app developer, I wanted to write an app, I have one that could be used in manufacturing. I could never do it before, but oh, there's this platform, now I can do it, and I don't have to start installing routers, like a Cisco partner will do it for a customer, and I can just drop my app in and it's, we're actually seeing that now-- >> So basically what's happening, the nirvana is first of all, intelligent edge is actually possible. >> Yes. >> With having the power at the edge with APIs, but for the ISVs, they might have the domain expertise at saying, hey I'm an expert on police, fire, public safety, vertical. >> Yes. >> But, I could build the best app, but I don't need to do all this other stuff. >> Yes. >> So I can focus all my attention on this. >> Yes. >> And their bottleneck was having that kind of compute and or Edge device. >> Yes. >> Is that what you're kind of getting at? >> Yeah, and there's, exactly it was because you know, I mean an app developer is awesome at writing apps. They don't want to get into the business of deploying networks and like even managing and operating how that is, but there's a whole like kind of Cisco ecosystem that does that. Like we have a lot of people who will love to operationalize that system, deploy that, you know, kind of maintain it. Then there's IT and OT operators who are running that stuff, but that app developer can write their app drop it into there, and then all of that can be taken care of. And we actually have two ISVs here with us, one in manufacturing, one in utilities, who are, you know, DevNet ISV partners, they've written applications and they actually have real stories about this, and kind of what they had to say is, like in the manufacturing example, is okay, so they write, they have this innovation, I wrote this cool app for manufacturing, right? So there's something that it does, it's building it, you know, they've gotten expertise in that, and then, as they've been, they're doing something innovative, they actually need the end customer, who does, the manufacturer, to use it, and adopt a new technology. Well, hey, you know, I'm running my stuff, why should I use that, how would I? So they actually work with a systems integrator, like a channel partner that actually will customize the solution. But even that person may not have thought about edge computing, what can you do, what's this crazy idea you have, but now they've actually gotten trained up, they're getting trained up on our IoT technologies, they're getting trained up on how to operationalize it, and this guy just writes his app, he actually points them to the DevNet Sandbox to learn about it, so he's like, no let me show you how this Edge processing thing works, go use the DevNet Sandbox, you can spin up your instance, you can see it working, oh look there's these APIs, let me show you. And it turns out they're using the Sandbox to actually train the partners and the end customer about what this model is like. And then, these guys are adopting it, and they're getting paying customers through this. >> Did you start hunting for ISVs, did they find you, how did that all transpire? >> It kind of happens in all different ways. (laughter) >> So yes. >> Yeah yeah, it happens in all different ways, and basically, in some cases like we actually sometimes have innovation centers and then you have you know, kind of as you know, the start-up that's trying to figure out how to get their stuff seen, they show up, we look for it. In our case in Italy, with the manufacturing company, then what happened was, the government was actually investing and the government was actually giving tax subsidies for manufacturing plants to modernize. And so, what they were doing was actually giving an incentive and then looking for these types of partners, so we actually teamed up with our country teams to find some of these and they have a great product. And then we started, you know, working with them. They actually already had an appreciation for Cisco because they, you know, in their country, they did computer science in college, they might've done some networking with the Cisco Networking Academy, so they knew about it, but finally, it came that they could actually bring this ecosystem together. >> Susie, congratulations on all your success, been great to be part of it in our way, but you and your team have done an amazing job, great feedback on Twitter on the swag got the-- (laughter) Swag bag's gettin' a lot of attention, which is always a key important thing. But in general, super important initiative, share some insight into how this has changed Cisco's executive view of the world because, you know, the cloud had horizontal scalability, but Cisco had it too. And now the new positioning, the new branding that Karen Walker and her team are putting out, the bridge to tomorrow, the future, is about almost a horizontally scalable Cisco. It's everywhere now so-- >> Yeah the bridge to possible, yeah. >> Bridge to possible, yes. >> Yeah well I mean, really what happens is, you know, there was a time when you're like, I'm going to buy my security, I'm going to buy my networking, I'm going to buy my data center, but really more and more people just want an infrastructure that works, right? An infrastructure that's capable that can allow you to innovate, and really what happens, when you think about how do you put all of these systems together, 'cause they're still individual, and they need to be individual in best in class products, well the best way to put 'em together is with APIs. (laughs) So, it's not that you need to architect them all into one big product, it's actually better to have best in class, clearly define the APIs, and then allow, as kind of modularity and to build it out. So, really we've had tremendous support from Chuck Robbins, our CEO, and he's understood this vision and he's been helping, kind of, you know, like DevNet is a start-up itself, like he's been helping us navigate the waters to really make it happen and as we moved and as he's evolved the organization, we've actually started to get more and more support from our executives and we're working across the team, so everything that we do is together with all the teams. And now what we're doing is we're co-launching products. Every time we launch a new product, we launch a new product with the product offer and the developer offer. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, here we've launched the new IoT products. >> With APIs. >> And, with APIs, and IOX and App-posting capabilities and we launched them together with a new DevNet IoT developer center. At developer.cisco.com/iot, and this is actually, if you take a look at the last say half year or year, our products have been launching, you'll see, oh here's the new DNA Center, and here's the new DevNet developer center. You know, then we can say, here's the new kind of ACI, and here's the new ACI developer center. Here's the new Meraki feature, here's the new ACI-- >> And it's no secret that DNA Center has over 600 people engineers in there. >> Yeah (laughs) >> That public information might not be-- >> You know, but we've actually gotten in the mode in the understanding of you know, every product should have a developer offer because it's about the ecosystem, and we're getting tremendous support now. >> Yeah a lot of people ask me about Amazon Web Services 'cause we're so close, we cover them deeply. They always ask me, hey John, why is that, why is Amazon so successful I go, well they got a great management team, they've got a great business model, but it was built on APIs first. It was a web service framework. You guys have been very smart by betting on the API because that's where the growth is, so it's not Amazon being the cloud, it's the fact that they built building blocks with APIs, that grew. >> Yes. >> And so I think what you've got here, that's lightening in the bottle is, having an API strategy creates more connections, connections create more fabric, and then there's more data, it's just, it's a great growth vehicle. >> Absolutely. >> So, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> So is that your market place, do you have a market place so it's just, I guess SDKs and APIs and now that you have ISVs comin' in, is that sort of in the plan? >> We do, no we do actually so, so yeah so basically, when you're in this world, then you have your device, you know, it's your phone, and then you have apps that you download and you get it from an app store. But when we're talking about, you know, the types of solutions we're talking about, there is infrastructure, there is infrastructure for you know, again, utilities companies, for police stations, for retail stores, and then, you have ISV applications that can help in each of those domains. There's oftentimes a systems integrator that's putting something together for a customer. And so now kind of the app store for this type of thing actually involves, you know, our infrastructure products together with kind of, and infrastructure, and third-party ones, you know, ISV software that can be customized and have innovation in different ways together with that system integrator and we're training them all, people across that, but we actually have something called DevNet Exchange. And what we've done is there's actually two parts, there's Code Exchange, which is basically, pointers out to you know, source code that's out in GitHub, so we're just going out to code repos that are actually helping people get started with different products. But in addition, we have Ecosystem Exchange, which actually lists the ISV solutions that can be used as well as the system's integrators who can actually deliver solutions in these different domains, so you know, DevNet Ecosystem Exchange is the place where we actually do list the ISVs with the SIs you know, with the different platforms so, that's the app store for a programmable infrastructure. >> Susie, congratulations again, thank you so much for including us in your DevNet Zone with theCUBE here for three days. >> Thank you for coming to us and for really helping us tell the story. >> It' a great story to tell and it's kickin' butt and takin' names-- (laughter) Susie Wee, Senior Vice President and CTO of DevNet, makin' it happen just the beginning, scratching the surface of the explosion of API-based economies, around the network, the network value, and certainly cloud and IoT. Of course, we're bringing you the edge of the network here with theCUBE, in Barcelona, we'll be back with more live coverage day two, after this short break. (upbeat music)