>> Live from Barcelona, Spain, It's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and it's Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to, guys, Cisco Live. Introducing some new innovations, Stu and Dave, around reinventing networking. Couple big themes, big announcements around ACI Anywhere application-centric infrastructure, HyperFlex, and the new CloudCenter Suite, where they are doubling down on cloud, redefining the network. Stu we've been here last year, been watching Cisco. Policy based, intent based networking. Cisco's tying it all together with new branding, The bridge to tomorrow. Your thoughts. >> Yeah John, I actually, I like some of the new branding. The bridge to tomorrow. I've been critical of Cisco. Cisco always said, oh well, you know networking's everywhere and it's really important. Well okay, but where's the meat, where's the detail behind this? They've done a number of acquisitions in the space. They're making sure they understand where they are. They had some failures along the way. I mean you know call a spade a spade, John. They are going to be a leader in multicloud. It's where they want to be, but they had some falters along in being a public cloud. You know the Intercloud message that they had. They confused the service providers. We didn't understand how they played with the hyperscale players and now they're understanding where they sit. SD-WAN, critically important. Where they live in the Data Center and It's interesting we talked about do we care about the Data Center or do we care about where the data is centered, and of course that is not in one place, but it is many places. We know customers today live in a multicloud world. How I get to my data, how I leverage my data is critically important, and the networking and management is something that is critical across all those. Right, as you said, ACI and HyperFlex, the CloudCenter Suite I know is an area I know we're going to dig into a bunch this week, because cisco has an opportunity to play across these environments. But Cisco has been trying for a long time to be the manager of managers in these environments. I think back to things that Dave Vellante and the Wikibon team and I have done for years, talking about how you manage in this heterogeneous world and it's just, instead of multivendor we are talking multiclass. >> Multiclass. And you know what everything is coming together, Dave. We've been covering Cisco, with looking at the timing of the positioning. It seems to be coming together and around the rebranding, which by the way I agree with Stu, I like it. The bridge to tomorrow, it resonates with me. Maybe because I am from the Bay area. But they're bridging two worlds, they're bridging On-Premises and cloud together in a very seamless way and elegant way architecturally. So the branding ties in with really much a rounding out of the portfolio, so a lot of storylines to follow: the new branding, Chuck Robbins getting his sea legs now as Cisco goes to the next level. And clearly they see multicloud as their positioning because this has been Cisco's core position for many many years, this idea of enabling other people to do innovation, whether it's applications and work loads. Now they're connecting two worlds. Your thoughts on the timing and their position vis-a-vis the industry. >> Well, Cisco talked this morning in the keynote about another bridge. On one side of the network is users and devices. On the other side of the network are applications and data. And we've talked for years about how the network is flattening and traffic is going east, west, et cetera. But interclouding if you will, puts increased pressure on that and it's clearly Cisco's strategy to be the best at connecting, whether it's On-Prem and public clouds or between public clouds. Cisco's got to make the case that on our networks you're going to be higher performance and more secure. That's certainly what they're implying. They're also making a big transition from being a hardware company to a software company. When you listen to VMware talk about Cisco, they talk about oh they make the best hardware, the best switches. Cisco's like, they're talking software capabilities across the network, new architectures, reinventing, coming at it from the network which is obviously their strong point. And it just really sets up an interesting competitive dynamic between Cisco, certainly VMware, who's trying to do networking and storage what it did to servers. And now you've got IBM and Red Hat coming at it from applications and the development perspective. We're here in the DevNet Zone, and I think that's the other piece of the announcements that we're hearing today is developers can actually program with things IoT and new Use Cases. So, pretty exciting times. >> Stu, storylines around the Data Center, you made the comment and it was kind of a play on words on the keynote. Data is centered, centered, dash, ED, center-ed. So the Data Center concept is moving into the data being center the value proposition. This has been interesting because if you look at what DevNet has spawned and DevNet create under Susie Wee's leadership, you saw the role of APIs. So if data moves around the network, and that's the core competency of Cisco, moving packets from point A to point B, adding automation, adding intelligence, with intent based networking and cloud enabling it on the other side. You got to have access to data, it's got to be traversing and inter operating with multiple environments. This is now a architectural standard. Is Cisco from a product portfolio standpoint, whether it's security analytics, cloud apps management, IoT, and networking. Does it all come together? Your thoughts. >> Yeah so, first of all, Cisco plays in a lot of these environments. We talk not just Data Center but when you talk about branch office, something Cisco has been doing a really long time. And how do I network between all of those remote locations and my central location. And my central location might not be the data center, it might be a or multiple public clouds out there. So Cisco's been attacking this backed WAN optimization many years ago. SD-WAN really has taken that and much more. Super important when we talk about this multicloud environment and how I get that connectivity, so they're there. And Cisco from the ground up has gone through a lot of rebuild. So the CloudCentre Suite we talked about, micro services architecture built with Kubernetes, into that API economy that we're talking about which is a lot of what we talked about here in the DevNet Zone. Absolutely Cisco has, they're known in this space. They have a lot of the skills. They have a very broad platform of products out there. David Goeckeler this morning, he was just reeling off all the different areas they play to in saying, you know, we've got like 6,000 people in the opening key note and he's like I came and look at this room and I've got like 4x the amount of engineers working on your network and security issues that were here. Like 24,000 people. It's an army. There's a few companies outside of Google, Amazon and Microsoft that can haul on that engineering strength and that's just the internal place, what we love. We talked to Susie Wee and she's like we've got 500,000 on our community platform helping to build. IT, OT, IoT, all the network, all the security pieces so Cisco is not new to a lot of these, but is refocused on a lot of what they're doing. >> So the big news obviously is the ACI Anywhere and HyperFlex Anywhere and putting the data center, connecting those two worlds. You got the cloud as well. So the role of hyper-convergence is certainly key in this announcement here today. ACI Application centric-structured infrastructure is codewords for policy-based, intent-based networking, all stuff that Cisco's used to doing. Then when you connect it to the cloud, you've got Data Center, On-Premises, Cloud and Hyper-Convergence at the edge. This is the core, right? They've got the edge, multiple environments. You've got Cloud and you've got the Data Center kind of legacy environment which is evolving. Those are all coming together. Stu, what is, this is a cross-domain challenge. Is Cisco prepared? David, I'd love to get your comments on this as well, to be that domain vendor? Because multicloud truly will require data to be moving around, for policy to be automated and deployed across domains. This is a huge challenge. Yeah I mean John, it is challenging and if you look at the hyper-convergence infrastructure space, where Cisco plays with HyperFlex, goes up against VMware vSAN and Nutanix and the rest there, the people that sell that and build that aren't necessarily the ones that really understand multicloud and we've seen that space maturing for the last couple of years. Obviously Cisco's got a right to be at the table there and they're moving in that direction, but the data center folks and they are data center folks that have done networking and storage and all that piece, are they getting trained up and helping to help bridge to that multicloud environment? I think there's still a lot of work to go when I talk to the channel, when I talk to the people that are out there going to market on that. >> Well that's the big challenge is how do you move the base, how do you get them from point A to point B without spending a billion dollars. You heard Gordon today stand up there and say you got to change. Now, and he admitted it. Anytime anybody tells me I have to change, I kind of get defensive about it, but some of the things that I, I mean obviously this end-to-end architecture, they're in a position in theory anyway to do that. They, what choice do they have? A couple of things that struck me is they've got a new consumption model, the SAAS-based consumption model. They also have four validated designs for OT, for IoT apps which that's good to see some actual meat on that bone. They got like utility substations and mining operations and fleet management. I mean it's stuff that you wouldn't traditionally think about coming from a data center company. So they're making some moves that I think are substantive and necessary. >> Well I took some notes here. I wanted to get your commentary on this, guys 'cause to me this is the core news here is that Cisco is truly trying to put that end to end architecture from across domains. You're seeing their core data center business continue to be robust. That's their bread and butter. You've got the edge that's developing nicely with IoT and Enterprise Edge and other places around campus and then you've got multiclass so you've got the three-legged stool. Core data center, multicloud and Edge. Does this address the industry's demand for apps changing, workloads being distributed and then management across these multiple domains or a multicloud because you've got to manage this stuff. So cost to ownership, these are now the table stakes. Your thoughts on those three areas too. Core data center, multicloud and edge. >> Yeah I mean we've been talking about for the last year, the move from hardware to software is not an easy one. There are things that you need to change for their product. They need to change how their field handles it, compensation and how they support their channel is super challenging. At VMWorld last year, we really highlighted how that intercloud networking, what a critical piece it was. I was so excited that the original vision of what Nicira had for pre-acquisitions was starting to come out there because VMWare's coming after Cisco in that manner. Cisco, not like they're trying to create hypervisors. They're going to live in all those worlds, but there definitely is some conflict there and something I always look at, Cisco's got a giant ecosystem. They have hundreds of thousands of certified Cisco engineers and they've got a great ecosystem here. >> Very strong channel. >> Everybody in a strong channel, right. They go to market partners as well as the technology partners and they're still strong. We're going to have on this week a lot of those players here, but that change is something that is tough to go through and it's this journey that they're on. >> Well this, Dave brought up consumption. I want to dig into the consumption piece because how people consume the cloud obviously means they got to stand up to cloud too, multicloud. Cisco's clearly got Azure AWS and Google Cloud. Google seems to be a strategic partner as well as Amazon Azure but I think Google kind of feels like there's more strategic alliances there. I'm just speculating from my opinion, but if I'm a Cisco customer, it's pretty easy now to go multicloud. I don't need to do a lot differently. The question is how do I manage it, what's the cost, how do I consume it? This is going to be critical. Your thoughts. >> Well Cisco's claiming they're going to abstract that complexity and whatever APIs and software infrastructure or infrastructure of a service that they're using, they're going to make that, simplify that and allow you to have a single management console. So as I said before, they're coming at it from a networking perspective. Vmware is coming at it from the traditional hypervisor and trying to elbow its way into the networking and storage space and then as I said, you've got other companies like IBM and Red Hat now coming at it from the application space and Kubernetes is obviously an important role there. I think personally the networking is a right place, a good place to come from. The problem for customers is still going to be complexity 'cause the cloud providers are going to have their own management framework. Obviously vSphere is a big player here. Now you got Cisco at all and then a bunch of startups saying hey ours is even better. >> Well the IBM Red Hat combination. >> Right and so I don't foresee a day where you're going to have one single painted glass. We never had in this industry. It's always been Nirvana and so then it comes down to Cisco getting its fair share. I think Cisco's in a very good position to get its fair share for the reasons that Stu just mentioned. >> Stu, so I want to get your thoughts. We're in the DevNet Zone. That's where theCUBE is. It's our second year at Cisco Live! We'll be at the American show again this year. It's on the schedule, but the role of the developer, the role of infrastructure as code now is in place actually happening within Cisco's customer base. So if you're a Cisco customer, you're looking at this saying okay, I've been running the Cisco network services. What is the role of the network engineer? Is there a renaissance coming? We said this last year. I kind of see it happening here. The network is now the computer. The network is the data. This is a great opportunity for Cisco. Your thoughts on the culture of the Cisco customer base and that vibe of infrastructure's code. >> Yeah so John, I used to bristle a little bit when you said well we're going to turn all the network engineers and they're going to become coders and I said well I know a lot of network engineers and some of them love and thrive that, but a lot of them, they're in the CLI, they're doing their thing. If you go and walk around this DevNet zone, a lot of stuff that's happening isn't networking. They are builders. This reminds me of going into AWS ReInvent and talking about people here the tools and the skills that you need to have to be a builder and absolutely networking is a part of it, that managing orchestration security, all things that touch into the network, but it's not oh how do I manage my network switch better, which is kind of the hardware focused view and maybe code this, but it really is how am I building APIs, how am I leveraging things? I've got IO key demos out there and networking is in there, but it's not necessarily the thing and so therefore you got the wave of developers and builders and John, we know that's the future. You need to be a builder. How can you create faster? Things like server list or moving in that direction where I don't need, it's less about the coding, it's more about my application, my data and my building. >> You bring up a great point, Stu, and this is something that I always point to when I look at who's kind of bsing the marketplace in terms of speeds and fees and announcements. When you see people actually coding and being enabled to create value, you start to see that's a good signal and here in the DevNet Zone, I saw four or five demos that were writing software and apps taking advantage of the hardware, taking advantage of the network. So now the network is enabling through APIs to extend the data. This is kind of changing the concept of how packages are moved around the networks. So this is truly a tell sign in my opinion of the modern infrastructure. The question is, Dave, how fast will the customers migrate to being true devops or infrastructure as code customers writing apps, building new things, create that value? >> Well I would say this. Of all the sort of traditional large-scale, call them whatever, legacy enterprise data center companies, I think Cisco's the only one that I can really point to that has kind of got developers right. IBM, Blue Mix, StartStop, remember the EMC code initiative that was kind of a joke? And so Oracle owns Java and it still sort of struggles with developers so I think Cisco got it right and I think the reason they got it right is because they're focused. That's what I do like about Cisco's strategy and the reason why you obviously give them a high chance is because they're really focused on that networking piece. They're not trying to be all things to all people even though you can forecast that they're sort of headed in that direction, but they're starting from a position of strength. >> You made a good point. The success or failure of developer programs is about creating an environment where it's compatible with how their expectations are. Microservices containers, these abstraction layers that they're used to dealing with create value. Developers love that. The other thing I would say is that developers look at what they can do, the world's changed. It used to be that the network used to dictate what can happen to applications. Now applications need to program the network. I think this was a shift we saw with DevNet Create and DevNet two years ago where they started moving from the command line interface to more of a software abstractions or application interfaces where they say hey let's just do more with the network. So applications now require programmability. This is the shift, it's upside down from what it was when the industry started. So this new bridge has to be application-centric and to me that's what I get out of the cloud announcement around multicloud. You're starting to see the portfolio up and down their stack. From security they got stealthwatch tetration, that's SAAS, analytics, app dynamics among other things. Data Center, HyperFlex, UCS Nexus all lined up. Cloud-centric container platforms on multiple clouds, IoT nedic, V Edge, Meraki, cloud services router. This is now a portfolio. They've got the products, Stu. >> Absolutely, John. >> Okay guys we're going to have a great day. Three days of wall-to-wall coverage. We're kicking it off here in Barcelona. Stay with us for more coverage here at Cisco Live! This is theCUBE. We'll be right back. (energetic music)

(upbeat music) >> Live from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE, covering the Cisco Live! Europe. Brought to you by Cisco, and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome to theCUBE, we're here in Barcelona. Welcome to theCUBE live here in Barcelona for Cisco Live! 2019. Cisco Live! Europe. I'm John Furrier with my hosts this week Stu Miniman, Dave Vellante breaking down all the action. Keynotes over. Three days of wall-to-wall coverage, guys, Cisco Live! Introducing some new innovations, Stu and Dave, around reinventing networking. Couple key themes big announcements around ACI, anywhere application-centric, infrastructure, HyperFlex and the new CloudCenter Suite where they're doubling down on Cloud, redefining the network. Stu, we've been here last year. We've been watching Cisco. Policy-based, intent-based networking, Cisco's tying it all together with new branding, The Bridge to Tomorrow, your thoughts. >> Yeah John, I actually, I like some of the new branding The Bridge to Tomorrow, I've been critical of Cisco. Cisco always said, oh well networking's everywhere and it's really important, and it's like, well okay but where's the meat? Where's the detail behind this? They've done a number of acquisitions in the space. They're making sure that they understand where they are. And they had some failures along the way. I mean, call a spade a spade, John, they are going to be a leader in multi-cloud is where they want to be, but, they had some falters along in being a public cloud. The inter-cloud message that they had, they confused the service providers, they didn't understand how they played with they hyper-scale players and now they're understanding where they sit, S.D. Wayne critically important, where they live in the data center and it's interesting we talk about the, do we talk about the data center? Or do we care where the data is centered? And of course that is not in one place but it is many places. We know customers today live in a multi-cloud word, how I get to my data how I leverage my data is critically important and the networking and management is something that is critical across all those so right, as you said, ACI and HyperFlex, the CloudCenter suite I know is an area we're going to dig into a bunch this week Because Cisco has an opportunity to play across these environments, but, Cisco has been trying for a long time to be the manager of managers in these environments, I mean, I think back to things Dave Vellante and the Wikibon team and I have done for years talking about, how do you manage this heterogeneous world and it's just, instead of multi-vendor, we're now talking multi-cloud. >> And you know what, everything is coming together, Dave, we've been covering Cisco we're looking at the timing of the positioning it's seems to be coming together, and around the re-branding, which by the way, I agree with Stu, I like it. The bridge to tomorrow, it resinates with me maybe because I'm from the Bay Area but, the bridging two worlds, a bridging on premises and cloud together in a very seamless way and an elegant way architecturally, so the branding ties in with really much a rounding out of the portfolio so a lot of story lines to follow the new branding, Chuck Robbins getting his sea legs now as Cisco goes to the next level And clearly they see multi-cloud as their positioning because this has been Cisco's core positioning for many, many years this idea of enabling other people to do innovation whether its applications and work loads now they're connecting two worlds Your thoughts on the timing and their position vis-a-vis industry. >> Well Cisco talked this morning in the keynote about another bridge on one side of the network is users and devices and the other side of the network are application and data and we've talked for years about how the network is flattening and traffic is going east-west etc. But, inter-clouding, if you will, puts increased pressure on that and that is clearly Cisco's strategy to be the best at connecting whether its on prim and public clouds and between public clouds. Cisco's got to make the case that on our networks, you're going to be higher performance and more secure. And that's certainly what they are implying. They're also making a big transition from being a hardware company to a software company. When you listen to VMware, they talk about Cisco they talk about oh they make the best hardware, the best switches and Cisco's like no. They're talking software capabilities across the network, new architectures, reinventing, coming at it from the network, which is obviously their strong point and it just really sets up an interesting competitive dynamic between Cisco, certainly VMware who's trying to do to networking and storage what it did to servers, and know you've got IBM and Red Hat coming at it from applications, and the development perspective. We're here in the DevNet zone and I think that's the other piece of the announcements that we're hearing today is developers can actually program with things like IoT, and new use cases, so pretty exciting times. >> Stu, story lines around the data center you made a comment that was kind of a play on words on the key note, data is centered, so center dash ed, center-ed, so the data center concept is moving into data being center of the value proposition. This has been interesting because if you look at what DevNet has spawned and DevNet created under Susie Wee's leadership you saw the role of API's. So if data moves around the network and that's the core competency of Cisco moving packets from point A to point B Adding automation, adding intelligence, with intent based networking and cloud enabling on the other side, you got to have access to the data, the data's got to be traversing and interoperating with multiple environments. This is now a architectural standard. Is Cisco, from a product portfolio stand point whether it's security, analytics, cloud app management, IoT, networking, does it all come together? Your thoughts? >> Yeah, so, first of all, Cisco plays in a lot of these environments. We talked not just data center, but, when you talk about branch office something Cisco has been doing for a really long time, and how do I network between all of those remote applications and my central location, and my central location might not be the data center, it might be a or multiple public clouds out there. So Cisco's been attacking this back when optimization many years ago. SD-Wan really has taken that and much more you know, super important when we talk about this multi-cloud environment and how I get that connectivity so they're there and Cisco from the ground up has gone through a lot of rebuild. So, the CloudCenter suite that we talk about, Microservice's architecture built with Kubernetes into that API economy that we're talking about which is a lot about what we talk about here in the DevNet zone. So, absolutely, Cisco has, they're known as space, they have a lot of the skills, they have a very broad platform of products out there. David Goeckeler this morning, he's just reeling off all the different areas they play to and saying, we've got like 6,000 people in the opening keynote, and he's like, I came and looked at this room, and I've got like four x the amount of engineers working on your networking security issues that were here. It's like 24,000 people it's an army, there's very few companies outside of Google, Amazon and Microsoft, that can call on that engineering strength and that's just the internal piece what we love, we talked to Susie Wee and she's like, we've got 500,000 on our community platform helping to build, IT, OT, IoT, all the network, all the security pieces so, Cisco is not new to a lot of these but, is re-focused on a lot of what they are doing. >> So the big news obviously is the ACI anywhere in hyperfex anywhere and putting the data center, connecting those two worlds and you got the cloud as well so the role of hyper-convergence is certainly key in this announcements here today. ACI application center infrastructure just code words for policy based, intent-based networking, all the stuff that Cisco's used to doing. Then when you connect to the cloud, you got data center, on premises, cloud, and then hyper-convergence at the edge. This is the core, right, they got the edge, multiple environments, you got cloud, and you got the data center, legacy environment which is evolving, Those are all coming together, Stu. This is cross-domain challenge. Is Cisco prepared? David I'd love to get your comments on this as well, to be that cross-domain vendor? Because multi-cloud truly will require data to be moving around, policies to be automated and deployed across domains. This is a huge challenge. >> Yeah, I mean, John, it is challenging, and if you look at the hyper-convergence infrastructure space, where Cisco plays with HyperFlex goes up against VMware vSAN, Nutanix and the rest there, the people that sell that and build that, are necessarily the ones that really understand multi-cloud. We've seen that space maturing for the last couple of years. Obviously Cisco's got a right to be at the table there and they're moving in that direction, but, to the data center folks, and they are data center folks that have done networking and storage and all that, are they getting trained up and and helping to help bridge to that multi-cloud environment? I think there's still a lot of work to go and I talked to the channel, when I talked to the people who are out there going to market on that. >> Well that's the big challenge, is how do you move the base, how do you get them from point A to point B without, spending a billion dollars? You heard Gordon today stand up there and say, you got to change. Now, and he admitted, anytime somebody tells me I have to change, I kind of get defensive about it. But some of the things that I. Well obviously this end-to-end architecture, they're in a position, in theory anyway to do that, what choice do they have? A couple of things that struck me is they've got a new consumption model, SaaS-based consumption model, they also announced four validated designs for OT from IoT apps. It's good to see some actually meat on that bone. You got like utility sub-stations and mining operations and fleet management, I mean, it's stuff that you would'nt traditionally think about from coming from a data center company. So they're making some moves that I think are substantive and necessary. >> Well I took some notes down I wanted to get your comments on this guys, cause, to me, this is the core news here, is that Cisco is truly trying to put that end-to-end architecture around cross-domains, you seeing their core data center business continue to be robust, that's they're bread and butter. You got the Edge that's developing nicely with IoT and Enterprise Edge and other places around campus. Then you got multi-cloud, so you got the three-legged stool. Core data center, multi-cloud, and Edge. Does this address the industries demand for apps changing, work loads being distributed, and then, management across these multiple domains or multi-cloud, because you got to manage this stuff. So cost to ownership, these are now the table stakes, your thoughts on those three areas, Stu, core data center, multi-cloud, and Edge? >> Yeah, I mean we've been talking about for the last year, the move from hardware to software is not an easy one. There are things that you need to change for product that you need to change how their field handles it, the whole. The compensation and how they support their channel, is super challenging. At VMworld last year, we really highlighted how that inter-cloud networking, what a critical piece it was. I was so excited, that the original vision of what Nicira had pre-acquisition was starting to come out there, because VMware's coming after Cisco in that manner. Cisco, not like they're trying to create high providers, they are going to live in all those worlds, but, there definitely is some conflict there and something I always look at, Cisco's got a gigantic ecosystem. They have, hundreds of thousands of certified Cisco engineers and they've got a great ecosystem here. >> And a strong channel. >> And a strong channel. Right, that go to market, partners as well as the technology partners, and they're still strong. We're going to have on this week a lot of those players here, but, that change is something that is tough to go through, and, it's this journey that they're on. >> Well, this, Dave brought up to consumption, I want to dig into the consumption piece because how people consume the cloud obviously means that they got to stand up the cloud, multi-cloud. Cisco's clearly got Azure AWS and Google Cloud. Google seems to be a strategic partner as well as Amazon, Azure, but I think Google, kind of feels like this more strategic alliance there, I'm just speculating from my opinion, but, if I'm a Cisco customer, it's pretty easy now to go multi-cloud, I don't need to a lot of things differently. The question is, how do I manage it, what's the cost, and how do I consume it? This is going to be critical. Your thoughts? >> Well, so, Cisco's claiming they're going to extract that complexity, and whatever API's and software infrastructure, infrastructure's a service that your using, they're going to make that simple, simplify that and allow you to have a, single management console. So that, I said before, they're coming at it from a networking perspective, VMware is coming at it from the traditional hypervisor and trying to elbow its way into the networking against storage space and as I said, you got other companies like IBM and Red Hat now coming at it from the application space and Kubernetes is obviously an important role there. I think personally, I think that networking is a right place, a good place to come from. The problem for customers is still going to be complexity. Because the cloud providers are going to have their own, management framework obviously, vSphere is a big player here and now you got Cisco at all, and a bunch of start-ups saying hey, ours are even better. >> Well in the IBM, Red Hat accommodation. >> Right, so I don't foresee a day where your going to have one single painted glass, we've never had in this industry, it's always been nirvana, and so, then comes down to Cisco getting its fair share. I think Cisco's in a very good position to get its fair share for the reasons that Stu just mentioned. >> Stu, so I want to get your thoughts we're in the DevNet zone, that's where theCUBE is. It's our second year at Cisco Live! We'll be at the North America show again this year, it's on the schedule, but the role of the developer, the role of infrastructure as code now is in place, actually happening within Cisco's customer base. So if your a Cisco customer, you're looking at this saying, okay, I've been running the Cisco network, I've got all the portfolios, services, what is the role of the network engineer? Is there a renaissance coming? We've said this last year, I kind of see it happening here, the network is now the computer, the network is the data. This is a great opportunity for Cisco. Your thoughts on the culture of the Cisco customer base and that vibe of infrastructure as code? >> Yeah, so, John, I used to bristle a little bit, when you said, well, we're going to turn all the network engineers and they're going to become coders, and I said, well, I know a lot of network engineers and some of them love and thrive that, but, a lot of them, they're in the CLI, they're doing their thing. If you walk around this DevNet zone, a lot of the stuff that happening isn't networking. They are builders. This reminds me of going to AWS Reinvent, taking about people here, the tools, the skills you need to have to be a builder. And absolutely, networking is a part of it, that management, orchestration, security, all the things that touch into the network, but it's not, oh how do I manage my network switch better? Which was kind of the hardware focus view, and maybe code this, but, it really is, how am I building API's, how am I leveraging things, I've got IoT demos out there and it's networking is in there, but, it's not necessarily the thing, and, so therefore, you've got this wave of developers and builders and, John, we know that's the future, you need to be a builder, how can you create faster, things like server lists, or moving in that direction where I don't need, it's less about the coding, it's more about my application, my data and my building. >> You bring up a great point, Stu, and this is something that I always, I point to when I look at who's kind of BSing the market place in terms of speeds and feeds, and announcements. When you see people actually coding and being enabled to do some creative value, you start to see that's a good signal, and here in the DevNet zone, I saw four-five demos that were writing software apps, to take advantage of the hardware, to take advantage of the network, so know the network is enabling through APIs to extend the data. This is kind of changing the the concept of how packets will move around the networks, so this is truly a tell sign, that in my opinion, of the modern infrastructure. The question is, Dave, how fast will the customers migrate to being true devops or infrastructure as code customers, writing apps, building new things, to create that value? >> Well, I would say this, that of all the sort of traditional large scale call them, whatever, legacy, enterprise, data center companies, I think Cisco is the only one that I can really point to that has kind of got developers right. I mean IBM, Bluemix, StartStop, remember the EMC Code initiative, that was kind of a joke, and so, Oracle owns Java, and it still sort of struggles with developers, so, I think Cisco got it right, and I think the reason they got it right is cause they're focused. I mean that's what I do like about Cisco's strategy and the reason why, you, know, obviously you give them high chances, it's because they're really focused on that networking piece. They're not trying to be all things to all people, even though you forecasted they're kind of heading in that direction, but they're still starting from a position of strength. >> Well, you made a good point. The success and failure of developer programs is about creating an environment where it's compatible with how they're expectations are. Microservices, containers, these abstraction layers that they're used to dealing with create value. Developers will love that. The other thing I would say is is that as developers look at what they can do, the worlds changed. It used to be the network that used to dictate what can happen to applications, now applications need to program the network. I think this was a shift we saw with DevNet Create and DevNet two years ago, where they started moving from the command line interface to more software abstractions or applications interfaces where, say hey, lets just do more with the network, so applications now require program ability. This is the shift, it's upside down from what it was when the industry started, so this new bridge has to be application-centric and to me, that's what I get out of the cloud announcement around multi-cloud. You're starting to see to see the portfolio up and down their stack, from security, they got stealthwatch tetration, that's, SaaS, analytics, app dynamics, among other things data center, HyperFlex, UCS, Nexus, all lined up. CloudCenter, container platform, on multiple clouds, IoT, Kinetic, Vedge, cloud services router, this is now a portfolio. They got the products too. >> Absolutely, John. >> Okay guys, we're going to have a great day, three days of wall-to-wall coverage kicking off here in Barcelona, stay with us for more coverage here at Cisco live, it's theCUBE. We'll be right back. (upbeat music)