(soft music) >> Welcome back, everyone. theCube's live coverage. Day two here at VMware Explore. Our 12th year covering VMware's annual conference formally called Vmworld, now it's VMware Explore. Exploring new frontiers multi-cloud and also bearing some of the fruit from all the investments in cloud native Tanzu and others. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. We have the man who's in charge of a lot of that business and a lot of stuff coming out of the oven and hitting the market. Ajay Patel, senior vice president and general manager of the modern applications and management group at VMware, basically the modern apps. >> Absolutely. >> That's Tanzu. All the good stuff. >> And Aria now. >> And Aria, the management platform, which got social graph and all kinds of graph databases. Welcome back. >> Oh, thank you so much. Thanks for having me. >> Great to see you in person, been since 2019 when you were on. So, a lot's happened since 2019 in your area. Again, things get, the way VMware does it as we all know, they announce something and then you build it and then you ship it and then you announce it. >> I don't think that's true, but okay. (laughs) >> You guys had announced a lot of cool stuff. You bought Heptio, we saw that Kubernetes investment and all the cloud native goodness around it. Bearing fruit now, what's the status? Give us the update on the modern applications of the management, obviously the areas, the big announcement here on the management side, but in general holistically, what's the update? >> I think the first update is just the speed and momentum that containers and Kubernetes are getting in the marketplace. So if you take the market context, over 70% of organizations now have Kubernetes in production, not one or two clusters, but hundreds of clusters, sometimes tens of clusters. So, to me, that is a market opportunity that's coming to fruition. Sometimes people will come and say, Ajay, aren't you late to the market? I say, no, I'm just perfectly timing it. 'Cause where does our value come in? It's enterprise readiness. We're the company that people look to when you have complexity, you have scale, you need performance, you need security, you need the robustness. And so, Tanzu is really about making modern applications real, helping you design, develop, build and run these applications. And with Aria, we're fundamentally changing the game around multicloud management. So the one-two punch of Tanzu and Aria is I'm most excited about. >> Isn't it true that most of the Kubernetes, you know, today is people pulling down open source and banging away. And now, they're looking for, you know, like you say, more of a robust management capability. >> You know, last two years when I would go to many of the largest customers, like, you know, we're doing good. We've got a DIY platform, we're building this. And then you go to the customer a year later, he's got knocked 30, 40 teams and he has Log4j happen. And all of a sudden he is like, oh, I don't want to be in the business of patching this thing or updating it. And, you know, when's the next shoe going to fall? So, that maturity curve is what I was talking about. >> Yeah. Free like a puppy. >> Ajay, you know, mentioned readiness, enterprise readiness and the timing's perfect. You kind of included, not your exact words, but I'm paraphrasing. That's a lot to do with what's going on. I mean, I'll say Cloud Native, IWS, think of the hyper scale partner, big partner and Google and even Google said it today. You know, the market world's spinning in their direction. Especially with respect to VMware. You get the relationship with the hyperscalers. Cloud's been on everyone's agenda for a long time. So, it's always been ready. But enterprise, you are customer base at VMware, very cloud savvy in the sense they know it's there, there's some dabbling, there's some endeavors in the cloud, no problem. But from a business perspective and truly transforming the VMware value proposition, is already, they're ready and it's already time now for them, like, you can see the movement. And so, can you explain the timing of that? I mean, I get enterprise readiness, so we're ready to scale all that good stuff. But the timing of product market fit is important here. >> I think when Raghu talks about that cloud first to cloud chaos, to cloud smart, that's the transition we're seeing. And what I mean by that is, they're hitting that inflection point where it's not just about a single team. One of the guys, basically I talked to the CIO, he was like, look, let's assume hypothetically I have thousand developers. Hundred can talk about microservices, maybe 50 has built a microservice and three are really good at it. So how do I get my thousand developers productive? Right? And the other CIO says, this team comes to me and says, I should be able develop directly to the public cloud. And he goes, absolutely you can do that. You don't have to come through IT. But here's the book of security and compliance that you need to enforce to get that thing in production. >> Go for it. >> Go for it. >> Good luck with that. >> So that reality of how do I scale my dev developers is turning into a developer experience problem. We now have titles which says, head of developer experience. Imagine that two years ago. We didn't talk about it. People start, hey, containers Kubernetes. I'm good to go. I can go get all the open source technology you talked about. And now they're saying no. >> And also software supply chains, another board that you're think. This is a symptom of the growth. I mean, open source is the software industry. That is, I don't think debatable. >> Right. >> Okay. That's cool. But now integration becomes vetting, trust, trusting codes. It's very interesting software time right now. >> That's right. >> And how is that impacting the cloud native momentum in your mind? Accelerating it? What inning are we in? How would you peg the progress? >> You know, on that scale of 1 to 10, I think we're halfway marked now. And that moved pretty quickly. >> It really did. >> And if you sit back today, the kinds of applications we're involved in, I have a Chicago wealth management company. We're building the next generation wealth management application. It's a fundamental refactoring of the legacy application. If you go to a prescription company, they're building a brand new prescription platform. These are not just trivial. What they're learning is the lift and shift. Doesn't work for these major applications. They're having to refactor them which is the modernization. >> So how specifically, are they putting some kind of abstraction layer on that? Are they actually gutting it and rewriting it? >> There's always going to be brownfield. Remember the old days of SOA? >> Yeah, yeah. >> They are putting APIs in front of their main systems. They're not rewriting the core banking or the core platform, but the user experience, the business logic, the AIML capability to bring intelligence in the platform. It's surrounding the capability to make it much more intuitive, much more usable, much more declarative. That's where things are going. And so I'm seeing this mix of integration all over again. Showing my age now. But, you know, the new EAI so is now microservices and messaging and events with the same patterns. But again, being much more accelerated with cloud native services. >> And it is to the point, it's accelerated today. They're not having to freeze the code for six months or nine months and that which would kill the whole recipe for failure. So they're able to now to fast track their modernization. They have to prioritize 'cause they got limited resources. But how are you guys coming up to that? >> But the practice is changing as well, right? Well, the old days, it was 12, 18 months cycle or anything software. If you heard the CVS CIO, Rohan. >> Yeah. >> Three months where they started to engage with us in getting an app in production, right? If you look at the COVID, 10 days to get kind of a new application for getting small loans going with Pfizer, right? These are dramatically short term, but it's not rewriting the entire app. It's just putting these newer experiences, newer capability in front with newer modern developer practices. And they're saying, I need to do it not just once, but for 100, 200, 5,000 members. JPMC has 50,000 developers. Fifty thousand. They're not a bank anymore. >> We just have thousands of apps. >> Exactly. >> Ajay, I want to get your thoughts on something that we've been talking about on our super cloud event. I know we had an event a couple weeks ago, you guys were one of our sponsors, VMware was. It was called super cloud where we're defining that this next gen environment's a super cloud and every company will have a super cloud capability. And underneath that is cross cloud capabilities. So, super cloud is like a super set on top of a multi-cloud. And little word play or play on words is, ecosystem partners versus partners in the ecosystem. Because if you're coming down to the integration side of things, it's about knowing what goes what, it's almost like building an OS if you're a coder or an operating systems person. You got to put the pieces together right, not just go to the directory and say, okay, who's got the cheapest price in DR or air gaping or something or some solution. So ecosystem partners are truly partners. Partners in the ecosystem are a bunch of people out on a list. How do you see that? Because the trend we're seeing is, the development process includes partners at day one. >> That's right. Not bolt-on. >> Completely agree. >> Share your thoughts on that. >> So let's look at that. The first thing I'm hearing from my customers is, they're trying to use all the public clouds as a new IS. That's the first API or contract infrastructures code IS. From then on they're saying, I want more and more portable services. And if you see the success of some of the data vendors and the messaging vendors, you're starting to see best of breed becoming part of the platform. So you are to identify which of these are truly, you know, getting market momentum and are becoming kind of defacto leaders. So, Kafka goes hand in hand with streaming. RabbitMQ from my portfolio goes with messaging. Postgres for database. So these are the, in your definition, ecosystem partners, they're foundational. In the security space, you know, Snyk is a common player in terms of scanning or Aqua and Prisma even though we have Carbon Black. Those become partners from a container security perspective. So, what's happening is the industry stabilizing a handful of critical players that are becoming multi-cloud preference of choice in this. And our job is to bring it all together in a all coordinated, orchestrated manner to give them a platform. >> I mean, you guys always had ecosystem, but I think that priority more than ever. It wasn't really your job at VMware, even, Dave, 10 years ago to say, hey, this is the strategic role that you might play one partner. It was pretty much the partners all kind of fed off the momentum of VMware. Virtualization. And there's not a lot of nuance there. There's pretty much they plug in and you got. >> So what we're doing here is, since we're not the center of the universe, unfortunately, for the application world, things like Backstage is a developer portal from Spotify that became open source. That's becoming the place where everyone wants to provide a plugin. And so we took Backstage, we said, let's provide enterprise support for Backstage. If you take a technology like, you know, what we have with Spring. Every job where developer uses Spring, how do we make it modern with Spring cloud. We work with Microsoft to launch a service with Azure Spring Enterprise for Spring. So you're starting to see us taking communities where they have momentum and bringing the ecosystem around those technologies. Cluster API for Kubernetes, for have you managed stuff. >> Yeah. >> So it's about standard. >> Because the developers are voting with their clicks and their code repos. And so you're identifying the patterns that they like. >> That's right. >> And aligning with them and connecting with them rather than trying to sell against it. >> Exactly. It's the end story with everyone. I say stop competing. So people used to think Tanzu is Kubernetes. It's really Tanzu is the modern application platform that runs on any Kubernetes. So I've changed the narrative. When Heptio was here, we were trying to be a Kubernetes player. I'm like, Kubernetes is just another dial tone. You can use mine, you can use OpenShift. So this week we announced support for OpenShift by Tanzu application platform. The values moving up, it's around outcomes. So industry standards, taking lead and solving the problem. >> You know, we had a panel at super cloud. Dave, I know you got a question. I'll get to you in a second. But the panel was the innovator's dilemma. And then during the event, one of the panelists, Chris Hoff knows VMware very well, Beaker on Twitter, said it should be called the integrators dilemma. Because the innovations here, >> How do you put it all together? >> But the integration of the, putting the piece parts together, building the thing is the innovation. >> And we come back and say, it's a secure software supply chain. It starts with great content. Did you know, I published most of the open source content on every hyperscaler through my Bitnami acquisition. So I start with great content that's curated. Then I allow you to create your own golden images. Then I have a build service that secures and so on and so forth and we bring the part. So, that opinionated solution, but batteries included but you can change it is been one of our key differentiator. We recognize the roles is going to be modular, come back and solve for it. >> So I want to understand sort of relationship Tanzu and Aria, John was talking about, you know, super cloud before we had our event. We had an earlier session where we help people understand that Aria was not, you know, vRealize renamed. >> It's rebranded. >> And reason I bring that up is because we had said it around super cloud, that one of the defining characteristics was, sorry, super PaaS, which is a specific purpose built PaaS layer designed to support your objective for multi-cloud. And speaking to a lot of people this week, there's a federated architecture, there's graph relationships, there's real time ability to ingest and analyze. That's unique. And that's IP that is purpose built for what you're doing. >> Absolutely. When I think what came out of all that learning is after 20 years of Pivotal and BA and what we learned that you still need some abstraction layer. Kubernetes is too low level. So what are the developer problems? What are the delivery problems? What are the operations and management problems? Aria solves all the operations and management problem. Tanzu solves a super PaaS problems. >> Yes. Right. >> Of providing a consistent way to build great software and the secure software supply chain to run on any infrastructure. So the combination of Tanzu and Aria complete the value chain. >> And it's different. Again, we get a lot of heat for this, but we're saying, look, we're trying to describe, it's not just IAS, PaaS, and SaaS of last decade. There's something new that's happening. And we chose the name super cloud. >> And what's the difference? It's modular. It's pluggable. It fits into the way you operate. >> Whereas PaaS was very prescriptive. If you couldn't fit, you couldn't jump down to the next level. This is very much, you can stay at the abstraction level or go lower level. >> Oh, we got to add that to the attribute. >> We're recruiting him right now. (laughs) >> We'll give you credit. >> I mean, funny all the web service's background. Look at an app server. You well knew all about app servers. Basically the company is an app. So, if you believe that, say, Capital One is an application as a company and Amazon's providing all the CapEx, >> That's it. >> Okay. And they run all their quote, old IT spend millions, billions of dollars on operating expenses that's going to translate to the top line called the income statement. So, Dave always says, oh, it's on the balance sheet, but now they're going to go to the top line. So we're seeing dynamic. Ajay, I want to get your reaction to this where the business model shift if everything's tech enabled, the company is like an app server. >> Correct. >> So therefore, the revenue that's generated from the technology, making the app work has to get recognized in the income. Okay. But Amazon's doing all, or the cloud hyperscale is doing all the heavy lifting on the CapEx. So technically it's the cloud on top of a cloud. >> Yes and no. The way I look at it, >> I call that a super cloud. >> So I like the idea of super cloud, but I think we're mixing two different constructs. One is, the cloud is a new hardware, right? In terms of dynamic, elastic, always available, et cetera. And I believe when more and more customer I talk about, there's a service catalog of infrastructure services. That's emerging. This super cloud is the next set of PaaS super PaaS services. And the management service is to use the cloud. We spend so much time as VMware building clouds, the problem seems, how do you effectively use the cloud? What problems do we solve around digital where every company is a digital company and the product is this application, as you said. So everything starts with an application. And you look at from the lens of how you run the application, what it costs the application, what impact it's driving. And I think that's the change. So I agree with you in some way. That is a digital strategy. >> And that's the company. >> That's the company. The application is the company. >> That's the t-shirt. >> And API is the currency. >> So, Ajay, first of all, we love having you in theCube 'cause you're like a masterclass in multiple dimensions. So, I want to get your thoughts on the abstraction layer. 'Cause we were also talking earlier in theCube here as well as before. But abstraction layers happen when you have major movements in markets that are game changing or major inflection points because you've reached a complexity point where it's working so great, this new thing, that's too complex to reign it in. And we were quoting Andy Grove by saying, "let chaos reign then reign in the chaos". So, all major industry moments go back 30, 40 years happen with abstractions. So the question is is that, you can't be a vendor, we've observed you can't be a vendor and be the abstraction. Like, if Cisco's running routers, they can't be the abstraction layer. They have to be the benefit of the abstraction layer. And if you're on the other side of the abstraction layer, you can't be running that either. >> I like the way you're thinking about it. Yeah. Do you agree? >> I completely agree. And, you know, I'm an old middleware guy. And when I used to say this to my CEO, he's like, no, it's not middleware, it's just a new middleware. And what's middleware, right? It's a thing between app and infrastructure. You could define it whatever we want, right? And so this is the new distributed middleware. >> It's a metaphor and it's a good one because it does a purpose. >> It's a purpose. >> It creates a separation but then you have, it's like a DMZ zone or whatever you want to call it. It's an area that things happen. >> But the difference before last time was, you could always deploy it to a thing. The thing is now the cloud. The thing is a set of services. So now it's as much of a networking problem at the application layer is as much as security problem. It's how you build software, how we design. So APIs, become part of your development. You can't think of APIs after the fact, right? When you build an API, you got to publish API because the minute you publish it and if you change it, the API's out of. So you can't have it as a documentation process. So, the way you build software, you use software consume is all about it. So to me, digital product with an API as a currency is where we're headed towards. >> Yeah, that's a great observation. Want to make a mental note of that and make that a clip. I want to get your thoughts on software development. You mentioned that, obviously software development life cycles are changing. I'll say open sources now. I mean, it's unlimited codes, supply chain issue. What's in the code, I get that verified codes going to happen. Is software development coding as much or is coding changing the notion of writing code? Or is it more glue layer you're writing. >> I think you're onto something. I call software developments composition now. My son's at Facebook or Google. They have so many libraries. So you don't no longer start with the very similar primitive, you start with building blocks, components, services, libraries, open source technology. What are you really doing? You're composing these things from multiple artifacts. And how do you make sure those artifacts are good artifacts? So someone's not sticking in security in a vulnerability into it. So, the world is moving towards composition and there are few experts who build the core components. Most of the time we're just using those to build solutions. And so, the art here is, how do you provide that set of best practices? We call them patterns or building blocks or services that you can compose to build these next generation (indistinct) >> It's interesting. >> Cooking meals. >> I agree with you a hundred percent what you're thinking. I agree about that worldview. Here's a dilemma that I'm seeing. In the security world, you've got zero trust. You know, Which is, I don't know you, I don't trust you at all. And if you're going to go down this composed, we're going to have an orchestra of players with instruments, say to speak, Dave, metaphor. That's trust involved. >> Yes. >> So you have two spectrums of issues. >> Yes. >> If software's going trust and you're seeing Docker containers getting more verifications, software supply chain, and then you got hardware I call network guys, love zero trust. Where's the balance? How do you reconcile that? Is it just decoupled? Nuance? I mean, what's the point? >> No, no. I think it all comes together. And what I mean by that is, it starts with left shifting it all the way to hands of the developers, right? So, are you starting with good content? You have providence of the stuff you're using. Are you building it correctly? So you're not introducing bad things like solar winds along the process. Are you testing it along the way of the development process? And then once in production, do you know, half the time it's configurations of where you're running the stuff versus the software itself. So you can think of the two coming together. And the network security is protecting people from going laterally once they've got in there. So, a whole security solution requires all of the above, a secure software supply chain, the way to kind of monitor and look at configuration, we call posture management or workload management and the network security of SaaS-e for zero trust. That's a hard thing. And the boundary is the application. >> All right. >> So is it earned trust model sort of over time? >> No, it's designed in, it's been a thing. >> Okay. So it's not a, >> Because it developed. >> You can bolt in afterwards. >> Because the developers are driving it. They got to know what they're doing. >> And it's changing every week. If I'm putting a new code out every week. You can't, it can be changed to something else. >> Well, you guys got guardrails. The guardrails constant is a good example. >> It stops on the configuration side, but I also need the software. So, Tanzu is all about, the secure chain is about the development side of the house. Guardrails are on the operational side of the house. >> To make sure the developers don't stop. >> That's right. >> Things will always get out there. And I find out there's a CV that I use a library, I found after the fact. >> Okay. So again, while I got here again, this is great. I want to get test this thesis. So, we've been saying on theCube, talking about the new ops, the new kind of ops that emerging. DevOps, which we believe is cloud native. So DevOps moving infrastructure's code, that's happened, it's all good. Open source is growing. DevOps is done deal. It's done deal. Developers are doing that. That ops was IT. Then don't need the server, clouds my hardware. Check. That balances. The new ops is data and security which has to match up to the velocity of the developers. Do you believe that? >> Completely. That's why we call it DevSecOps. And the Sec is where all the action is. >> And data. And data too. >> And data is about making the data available where the app meets. So the problem was, you know, we had to move the logic to where the data is or you're going to move the data where the logic is. So data fabrics are going to become more and more interesting. I'll give you a simple example. I publish content today in a service catalog. My customer's saying, but my content catalog needs to be in 300 locations. How do I get the content to each of the repos that are running in 300 location? So I have a content distribution problem. So you call it a data problem. Yes, it's about getting the right data. Whether it's simple as even content, images available for use for deployment. >> So you think when I think about the application development stack and the analytics stack, the data stack, if I can call it that, they're separate, right? Are those worlds, I mean, people say, I want to inject data and AI intelligence into apps. Those worlds have deployment? I think about the insight from the historical being projected in the operational versus they all coming together. I have a Greenplum platform, it's a great analytics platform. I have a transactional platform. Do my customers buy the same? No, they're different buyers, they're different users. But the insight from that is being now plugged in so that at real time I can ask the question. So even this information is being made available on demand. So that's where I see it. And that's most coming together, but the insight is being incorporated in the operational use. So I can say, do I give the risk score? Do I give you credit? It's based on a whole bunch of historical analytics done. And at the real time, processing is happening, but the intelligence is behind it. >> It's a mind shift for sure because the old model was, I have a database, we're good. Now you have time series database, you got graphs. Each one has a role in the overall construct of the new thing. >> But it's about at the end. How do I make use of it? Someone built a smart AI model. I don't know how it was built, but I want to apply it for that particular purpose. >> Okay. So the final question for you, at least from my standpoint is, here at VMware Explore, you have a lot of the customers and so new people coming in that we've heard about, what's their core order of operations right now? Get on the bandwagon for modern apps. How do you see their world unfolding as they go back to the ranch, their places, and go back to their boss? Okay. We got the modern application. We're on the right track boss, full steam ahead. Or what change do they make? >> I think the biggest thing I saw was with some of the branding changes well and some of the new offerings. The same leader had two teams, the VMware team and the public cloud team. And they're saying, hey, maybe VMware's going to be the answer for both. And that's the world model. That's the biggest change I'm seeing. They were only thinking of us on the left column. Now they see us as a unifying player to play across cloud native and VMware, the uniquely set up to bring it all together. That's been really exciting this week. >> All right, Ajay, great to have you on. Great perspective. Worthy of great stuff. Congratulations on the success of all that investment coming to bear. >> Thank you. >> And on the new management platform. >> Yeah. Thank you. And thanks always for giving us all the support we need. It's always great. >> All right Cube coverage here. Getting all the data, getting inside the heads, getting all the specifics and all the new trends and actually connecting the dots here on theCube. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay tuned for more coverage from day two. Two sets, three days, Cube at VMware Explore. We'll be right back. (gentle music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the queue covering Sisqo, Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, Everyone Live here in Barcelona, Spain's two Cubes Coverage of Sisqo Live Europe. Twenty nineteen. I'm John Foreal echoes David Lock. Our next guest is Liz Santoni, senior vice president general manager of the Eye Okay Group at Cisco, formerly is part of the engineering team Cube Alumni. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming >> on. Great to be here, >> so you're >> just good to see you guys. >> You're in the centre. A lot of news. I ot of the network redefining networking on stage. We heard that talk about your role in the organization of Sisko and the product that you now have and what's going on here. >> So run R I O T business group similar to what we do with the end data center off that it has the engineering team product management team. We build products solutions that includes hardware, software, silicon. Take him out to market. Really an eye. OT It's about, you know, the technology conversation comes second. It's like, What can you deliver in terms of use, case and business outcomes that comes first, and it's more about what technology can enable that. So the conversations we have with customers are around. How can he really solve my kind of real problems? Everything from one a girl, my top line? I want to get closer to my customers because the closer I get to my customers, I know them better. So obviously can turn around and grow my top line. And I want to optimize everything from internal process to external process because just improves my bottom line at the end >> of the day. So you a lot of news happening here around your team. But first talk about redefining networking in context to your part, because edge of the network has always been what is, you know the edge of the network. Now it's extending further. I. O. T. Is one of those things that people are looking at a digit digitization standpoint, turning on Mohr intelligence with the factory floor or other areas. How how are how is I ot changing and what is it today? >> So you gave an example of, you know, digitizing something like a factory floor, right? So let's talk about that. So what customers in the factory floor want to do. They've already automated a number of this factory floors, but what they want to do is get more efficient. They want better eo. They want better quality. They want to bring security all the way down to the plant floor because the more and more you connect things, the more you just expanded your threat surface out pretty significantly so they want to bring security down to the plant floor. Because the's are environments that are not brand new, they have brown feel equipment there, green field equipment. They want to be able to have control of where what device gets in the network. With things like device profiling, they want to be able to do things like create zones so that they could do that with things like network segmentation. So when and if an attack does happen, they can contain the attack as much as possible. All right now what you need in terms ofthe a factory floor, automation, security, to be able to scale tohave that flexibility That's no different than what you have in the Enterprise already. I mean, we've been working with our idea and enterprise customers for years, and, you know, they it's about automation and security. It's about simplicity. Why not extend that out? The talent that it has, the capability that has it really is a connective tissue, that you're extending your network from that carpeted space, or you're clean space into outside of the office or into the non carpeted space. So it's perfect in terms of saying it's about extending the network into the nontraditional space that probably it doesn't go into today. >> Well, right. And it's a new constituency, right? So how are you sort of forging new relationships, new partnerships? What is described, what that's like with operations technology? >> I mean, that Cisco. We have great partnerships with the Tea organisation. I mean, we've got more than eight hundred forty thousand customers and our sales teams are product. Teams do a good job in terms of listening to customers. We're talking more and more to the line of business. We're talking more and more to the operational teams >> because of the end of >> the day. I want to be candid. You know, going to a manufacturing floor. I've never run a plan. Floor right? There are not very many people in the team who conceived in a plant manager before they know they're processes. They're concerned about twenty four seven operation. Hey, I want to be in compliance with the fire marshal, physical safety of my workers. We come in with that. I p knowledge that security knowledge that they need it's a partnership. I mean, people talk about, you know, t convergence. Usually convergence means that somebody's going to lose their job. This is Maura Night, an OT partnership, and most of these digitization efforts usually come in for the CEO level. Laura Chief Digitization Officer. We've got good relationships there already. Second part is Sister has been in this. We're quite some time. Our team's already have relationships at the plant level at the grid level operator level. You know, in the in the oil and gas area what we need to build more and more of that because building more and more that is really understanding. What business problems are they looking to solve? Then we can bring the technology to it. >> Liz, what's that in the Enable Menu? Mission Partnership? That's a good point. People, you know, someone wins, someone loses. The partnership is you're enabling your bringing new capability into the physical world, from wind wind farms to whatever What is the enablement look like? What are some of the things that happen when you guys come into these environments that are being redefined and reimagined? Or for the first time, >> Yeah, I would say, you know, I use what our customers said this morning and what he said was, it has the skills that I >> need, all right. >> They have the eyepiece skills. They have a security seals. These are all the things that I need. I want my guys to focus on kind of business processes around things that they know best. And so we're working with a CZ part of what we're putting this extended enterprise extending in ten based networking to the i o T edge means ight. Hee already knows our tools are capabilities. We're now saying we can extend that Let's go out, figure out what those use cases are together. This is why we're working with the not just the working with our channel partners as well. Who can enable these implementations on i o t implementations work? Well, >> part of >> this is also a constant, you know learning from each other. We learned from the operational teams is that hey, you can start a proof of concept really well, but he can really take it to deployment unless you address things around the complexity, the scale and the security. That's where we can come in and help. >> And you can't just throw your switches and routers over the fence. And so okay, here you go. You have to develop specific solutions for this world, right? And when you talk about that a little bit, absolutely. So >> if you look at the networking industrial networking portfolio that we have, it's built on the same catalysts, itis our wireless, a peace, our firewall. But they're more customized for this non carpeted space, right? You've got to take into consideration that these air not sitting in a controlled environment, so we test them for temperature, for shock, for vibration. But it's also built on the same software. So we're talking about the same software platform. You get the same automation features you get, the same analytics features. It's managed by DNA center. So even though we're customizing the hardware for this environment, the software platform that you get is pretty much the same, so it can come in and manage both those environments. But it also needs an understanding of what, What's the operational team looking to solve for? >> Because I want to ask you about the psychology of the buyer in this market because OT there run stuff that's just turn it on. But in the light ball, make it work. Well, I got to deploy something, so they're kind of expectations might be different. Can you share what the expectations are for the kind of experience that they wanna have with Tech? >> I used a utility is a great example and our customer from energy. I think, explain this really well, this is thing that we learned from our customers, right? I haven't been in a substation. I've been in a data center multiple times, but I haven't been in a substation. So when they're talking about automating substation, we work with customers. We've been doing this over the last ten years. We've been working with that energy team for the last two years. They taught us, really, how they secure and managing these environments. You're not going to find a CC in this environment, So when you want to send somebody out to like sixty thousand substations and you want to check on Hey, do do I still have VPN connectivity? They're not going to be able to troubleshoot it. What we did is based on the customer's ask, put a green light on there and led that shines green. All the technician does is look at it and says it's okay. If not, they called back in terms of trouble shooting it. It was just a simple example of where it's. It's different in terms of how they secure and manage on the talent that they have is different than what's in the space. So you've got to make sure that your products also cover what the operational teams need because you're not dealing with the C. C A. Or the I P experts, >> a classic market fit product market fit for what they're expecting correct led to kick around with green light. I mean, >> you know, everybody goes that such an easy thing inside was >> not that perceptive to us. >> What's the biggest thing you've learned as you move from Cisco Engineering out to the new frontier on the edge here? What? What are the learnings that you've seen actually growing mark early. It's only going to get larger, more complicated, more automation. Morey, I'm or things. What's your learning? What have you seen so far? That's the takeaway. >> So I'll see, you know, be I'm still an Cisco Engineering. The reason we're in Coyote is that a secure and reliable network that it's the foundation of any eye. Ot deployment, right? You can go out and best buy the best sensor by the best application by the best middle where. But if you don't have that foundation that's secure and reliable, those, Iet projects are not going to take off. So it's pretty simple. Everyone's network is thie enabler of their business outcome, and that's why we're in it. So this is really about extending that network out, but at the same time, understanding. What are we looking to solve for, right? So in many cases we worked with third party party hers because some of them know these domains much better than we do. But we know the AIP wear the eye patch and the security experts, and we bring that to the table better than anybody else. >> And over the top, definite showing here for the second year that we've covered it here in definite zone, that when you have that secure network that's programmable really cool things and develop on top of it. That's what great opportunity >> this is. I'm super excited that we now have an i o. T. Definite in. You know, it's part of our entire Cisco. Definite half a million developers. You know, Suzy, we and team done a fabulous job. There's more and more developers going to be starting to develop at the I o. T edge at the edge of the network. Right. So when you look at that is our platforms today with dioxin saw on top of it. Make this a software platform that developers Khun can actually build applications to. It's really about, you know, that we're ready. Highest fees and developers unleashing those applications at the i o. T edge. And with Susie making that, you know, available in terms of the tools, the resource is the sand box that you can get. It's like we expect to see more and more developers building those applications at the >> edge. We gotta talk about your announcements, right? Oh, >> yeah. Exciting set >> of hard news. >> So we launch for things today as part of Extending Ibn or in ten based networking to the I. O. T. S. The first one is we've got three new Cisco validated design. So think of a validated design as enabling our customers to actually accelerate their deployments. So our engineering teams try to mimic a CZ muchas possible a customer's environment. And they do this pre integration, pre testing of our products, third party products and we actually put him out by industry. So we have three new ones out there for manufacturing, for utilities and for mode and mobile assets. That's one. The second one is we're launching two new hardware platforms on next generation catalysts Industrial Ethernet switch. It's got modularity of interfaces, and it's got nine expansion packs. The idea is making as flexible as possible for a customer's deployment, because these boxes might sit in an environment not just for three years, like in a campus, they could sit there for five for seven for ten years. So, as you know, they are adding on giving them that flexibility that concave a bit based system and just change the expansion modules. We also launch on next generation industrial router. Actually, is the industries probably first and only full six capable industrial router, and it's got again flexibility of interfaces. We have lt. We have fiber. We have copper. You want deal? Lt. You can actually slap an expansion pack right on top of it. When five G comes in, you just take the Lt Munch a lot. You put five G, so it's five G ready >> engines on there >> and it's based on Io Exit us sexy. It's managed by DNA center and its edge enabled. So they run dialects. You, Khun, build your applications and load him on so >> you can >> build them. Third >> parties have peace here. >> The definite pieces. That third one is where we now have, you know, and I OT developer center in the definite zone. So with all the tools that are available, it enables developers and IAS peas, too. Actually, we build on top of Io Axe today. In fact, we actually have more than a couple of three examples that are already doing that. And the fourth thing is we depend on a large ecosystem of channel partners, So we've launched an Io ti specialization training program to enable them to actually help our customers implementation go faster. So those are the four things that we brought together. The key thing for us was designing these for scale flexibility and security >> capabilities available today. Is that right? >> Absolutely. In fact, if you go in worshipping in two weeks and you can see them at the innovation showcase, it's actually very cool. >> I was going to mention you brought ecosystem. Glad you brought that. I was gonna ask about how that's developing. I could only imagine new sets of names coming out of the industry in terms of building on these coyotes since his demand for Io ti. It's an emerging market in terms of newness, with a lot of head room. So what's ecosystem look like? Missouri patterns and Aya's vsv ours as they take the shape of the classic ecosystem? Or is it a new set of characters? Or what's the makeup of the >> island's ecosystem, >> I would say is in many ways, if you've been in the eye ot world for sometime, you'll say, You know, it's not like there's a whole new set of characters. Yes, you have more cloud players in there, you You probably have more s eyes in there. But it's been like the distributor's Arvin there. The machine builders thie ot platforms. These folks have been doing this for a long time. It's more around. How do you partner and where do you monetize? We know where you know the value we bring in we rely on. We work very closely with this OT partners machine builders s eyes the cloud partners to go to market and deliver this. You're right. The market's going to evolve because the whole new conversation is around. Data. What do I collect? What do I computer the edge? Where do I go around it to? Should I take it to my own premises? Data centers. Should I take it to the cloud who gets control over the data? How do I make sure that I have control over the data as a customer and I have control over who gets to see it? So I think this will be a revolving conversation. This is something we're enabling with one of our Connecticut platforms, which are not launch. It's already launched in terms of enabling customers to have control over the data and managed to bring >> all the portfolio of Cisco Security Analytics management to the table that puts anything in the world that has power and connectivity to be a device to connect into its system. This is the way it's just I mean, how obvious going Beat commits a huge >> I'm grateful that it's great that you think it's obvious. That's exactly what we're trying to tell our customers. >> How to do is >> about extending >> the way >> we do. It's the playbook, right? Each business has its own unique. There's no general purpose. Coyote is their correct pretty much custom because, um, well, thanks for coming on this. Appreciate it when I ask you one final question. You know, I was really impressed with Karen. Had a great session on wall kind of session yesterday. Impact with women. We interviewed you a Grace offered twenty fifteen. Cisco's doing amazing work. You take a minute to talk about some of the things that Cisco's doing around women in computing. Women in stem. Just great momentum, great success story, great leadership. >> I would say Look at her leadership at Chuck's level, and I think that's a great example in terms of He brings people on, depending on what they can, what they bring to the table, right? They just happened to be a lot of women out there. And the reality is I work for a company that believes in inclusion, whether it's gender race, different experiences, different a different thoughts, different perspective because that's what truly in terms of you can bring in the culture that drives that innovation. I've been sponsoring our women in science and engineering, for I can't remember the last for five years. It's a community that continues to grow, and and the reality is we don't sit in there and talk about, you know, what was me and all the things they're happening. What we talk about is, What are the cool new technologies that are out there? How do I get my hands on him? And yeah, there we talk about some things where women are little reticent and shy to do so. What we learn from other people's experiences, many time the guy's air very interested. So what? You sit them there and talking to said, Trust me, it's not like a whining and moaning section. It's more in terms of where we learned from each other >> years talking and sharing ideas, >> absolute >> innovation and building things. >> And we've got, you know, you look we look around that's a great set of women leaders throughout the company. At every single level at every function. It's ah, it's It's great to be there. We continue to sponsor Grace offer. We have some of the biggest presence at Grace Offer. We do so many other things like connected women within the company. It's just a I would say fabulous place to be. >> You guys do a lot of great things for society. Great company, great leadership. Thank you for doing all that's phenomenal. We love covering it, too. So we'll be affect cloud now today in Silicon Valley. Women in data science at Stanford and among them the >> greatest passion of our things. Straight here. >> Thanks for coming on this. The Cube live coverage here in Barcelona. Francisco Live twenty eighteen back with more. After the short break, I'm jump area with evil Aunt. Be right back