>> We're back at the Big Apple, theCUBE's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. Sahir Azam is here, he's the Chief Product Officer of MongoDB, and Guillermo Rauch who's the CEO of Vercel. Hot off the keynotes from this morning guys, good job. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for joining us here. Thanks for having us. Guillermo when it comes to modern web development, you know the back-end, the cloud guys got to it kind of sewn up, >> you know- >> Guillermo: Forget about it. >> But all the action's in the front end, and that's where you are. Explain Vercel. >> Yeah so Vercel is the company that pioneers front-end development as serverless infrastructure. So we built Next.js which is the most popular React framework in the world. This is what front-end engineers choose to build innovative UI's, beautiful websites. Companies like Dior and GitHub and TikTok and Twitch, which we mentioned in the keynote, are powering their entire dot-coms or all of their new parts of their dot-coms with Next.js. And Vercel is the serverless platform where you can deploy frameworks like in Next.js and others like Svelte and Vue to create really fast experiences on the web. >> So I hear, so serverless, I hear that's the hot trend. You guys made some announcements today. I mean when you look at the, we have spending data with our friends at ETR right down the street. I mean it's just off the charts, whether it's Amazon, Google, Azure Functions, I mean it's just exploding. >> Sahir: Yeah, it's I think in many ways, it's a natural trend. You know, we talk a lot about, whether it be today's keynote or another industry talks you see around our industry that developers are constantly looking for ways to focus on innovation and the business logic that defines their application and as opposed to managing the plumbing, and management of infrastructure. And we've seen this happen over and over again across every layer of the stack. And so for us, you know MongoDB, we have a bit of, you know sort of a lens of a broad spectrum of the market. We certainly have you know, large enterprises that are modernizing existing kind of core systems, then we have developers all over the world who are building the next big best thing. And that's what led us to partner with Vercel is just the bleeding edge of developers building in a new way, in a much more efficient way. And we wanted to make sure we provide a data platform that fits naturally in the way they want to work. >> So explain to our audience the trade-offs of serverless, and I want to get into sort of how you've resolved that. And then I want to hear from Guillermo, what that means for developers. >> Sahir: Yeah in our case, we don't view it as an either or, there are certain workloads and definitely certain companies that will gravitate towards a more traditional database infrastructure where they're choosing the configuration of their cluster. They want full control over it. And that provides, you know, certain benefits around cost predictability or isolation or perceived benefits at least of those things. And customers will gravitate towards that. Now on the flip side, if you're building a new application or you want the ability to scale seamlessly and not have to worry about any of the plumbing, serverless is clearly the easier model. So over the long term, we certainly expect to see as a mix of things, more and more serverless workloads being built on our platform and just generally in the industry, which is why we leaned in so heavily on investing in Atlas serverless. But the flexibility to not be forced into a particular model, but to get the same database experience across your application and even switch between them is an important characteristic for us as we build going forward. >> And you stressed the cost efficiency, and not having to worry about, you know, starting cold. You've architected around that, and what does that mean for a developer? >> Guillermo: For a developer it means that you kind of get the best of both worlds, right? Like you get the best possible performance. Front-end developers are extremely sensitive to this. That's why us pioneering this concept, serverless front-end, has put us in a very privileged position because we have to deliver that really quick time to first buy, that really quick paint. So any of the old trade-offs of serverless are not accepted by the market. You have to be extremely fast. You have to be instant to deliver that front-end content. So what we talked about today for example, with the Vercel Edge network, we're removing all of the cost of that like first hit. That cold start doesn't really exist. And now we're seeing it all across the board, going into the back-end where Mongo has also gotten rid of it. >> Dave: How do you guys collaborate? What's the focus of integration specifically from, you know, an engineering resource standpoint? >> Yeah the main idea is, idea to global app in seconds, right? You have your idea. We give you the framework. We don't give you infrastructure primitives. We give you all the necessary tools to start your application. In practice this means you host it in a Git repo. You import it onto Vercel. You install the Mongo integration. Now your front-end and your data back-end are connected. And then your application just goes global in seconds. >> So, okay. So you've abstracted away the complexity of those primitives, is that correct? >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> Do do developers ever say, "That's awesome but I'd like to get to them every now and then." Or do you not allow that? >> Definitely. We expose all the underlying APIs, and the key thing we hear is that, especially with the push for usage-based billing models, observability is of the essence. So at any time you have to be able to query, in real time, every data point that the platform is observing. We give you performance analytics in real time to see how your front-end is performing. We give you statistics about how often you're querying your back-end and so on, and your cache hit ratios. So what I talked about today in the keynote is, it's not just about throwing more compute at the problem, but the ability to use the edge to your advantage to memoize computation and reuse it across different visits. >> When we think of mission critical historically, you know, you think about going to the ATM, right? I mean a financial transaction. But Mongo is positioning for mission critical applications across a variety of industries. Do we need to rethink what mission critical means? >> I think it's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak. If you're a new business starting up, your software and your application is your entire business. So if you have a cold start latency or God forbid something actually goes down, you don't have a business. So it's just as mission critical to that founder of a new business and new technology as it is, you know, an established enterprise that's running sort of a more, you know, day-to-day application that we may all interact with. So we treat all of those scenarios with equal fervor and importance right? And many times, it's a lot of those new experiences that the become the day-to-day experiences for us globally, and are super important. And we power all of those, whether it be an established enterprise all the way to the next big startup. >> I often talk about COVID as the forced march to digital. >> Sahir: Mm-Hmm. >> Which was obviously a little bit rushed, but if you weren't in digital business, you were out of business. And so now you're seeing people step back and say, "All right, let's be more thoughtful about our digital transformation. We've got some time, we've obviously learned some things made some mistakes." It's all about the customer experience though. And that becomes mission critical right? What are you seeing Guillermo, in terms of the patterns in digital transformation now that we're sort of exiting the isolation economy? >> One thing that comes to mind is, we're seeing that it's not always predictable how fast you're going to grow in this digital economy. So we have customers in the ecommerce space, they do a drop and they're piggybacking on serverless to give them that ability to instantly scale. And they couldn't even prepare for some of these events. We see that a lot with the Web3 space and NFT drops, where they're building in such a way that they're not sensitive to this massive fluctuations in traffic. They're taking it for granted. We've put in so much work together behind the scenes to support it. But the digital native creator just, "Oh things are scaling from one second to the next like I'm hitting like 20,000 requests per second, no problem Vercel is handling it." But the amount of infrastructural work that's gone behind the scenes in support has been incredible. >> We see that in gaming all the time, you know it's really hard for a gaming company to necessarily predict where in the globe a game's going to be particularly hot. Games get super popular super fast if they're successful, it's really hard to predict. It's another vertical that's got a similar dynamic. >> So gaming, crypto, so you're saying that you're able to assist your customers in architecting so that the website doesn't crash. >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> But at the same time, if the the business dynamic changes, they can dial down. >> Yeah. >> Right and in many ways, slow is the new down, right? And if somebody has a slow experience they're going to leave your site just as much as if it's- >> I'm out of here- >> You were down. So you know, it's really maintaining that really fast performance, that amazing customer experience. Because this is all measured, it's scientific. Like anytime there's friction in the process, you're going to lose customers. >> So obviously people are excited about your keynote, but what have they been saying? Any specific comments you can share, or questions that you got that were really interesting or? >> I'm already getting links to the apps that people are deploying. So the whole idea- >> Come on! >> All over the world. Yeah so it's already working I'm excited. >> So they were show they were showing off, "Look what I did" Really? >> Yeah on Twitter. >> That's amazing. >> I think from my standpoint, I got a question earlier, we were with a bunch of financial analysts and investors, and they said they've been talking to a lot of the customers in the halls. And just to see, you know, from the last time we were all in person, the number of our customers that are using multiple capabilities across this idea of a developer data platform, you know, certainly MongoDB's been a popular core database open source for a long time. But the new capabilities around search, analytics, mobile being adopted much more broadly to power these experiences is the most exciting thing from our side. >> So from 2019 to now, you're saying substantial uptick in adoption for these features? >> Yeah. And many of them are new. >> Time series as well, that's pretty new, so yeah. >> Yeah and you know, our philosophy of development at MongoDB is to get capabilities in the hands of customers early. Get that feedback to enrich and drive that product-market fit. And over the last three years especially, we've been transitioning from a single product kind of core, you know, non relational modern database to a data platform, a developer data platform that adds more and more capabilities to power these modern applications. And a lot of those were released during the pandemic. Certainly we talked about them in our virtual conferences and all the zoom meetings we had over the years. But to actually go talk to all these customers, this is the largest conference we've ever put on, and to get a sense of, wow all the amazing things they're doing with them, it's definitely a different feeling when we're all together. >> So that's interesting, when you have such a hot product, product-led growth which is what Mongo has been in, and you add these new features. They're coming from the developers who are saying, "Hey, we need this." >> Yip. >> Okay so you have a pretty high degree of confidence, but how do you know when you have product-market fit? I mean, is it adoption, usage, renewals? What's your metric? >> Yeah I think it's a mix of quantitative measures that you know, around conversion rates, the size of your funnel, the retention rate, NPS which obviously can be measured, but also just qualitative. You know when you're talking to a developer or a technology executive around what their needs are, and then you see how they actually apply it to solve a problem, it's that balance between the qualitative and the quantitative measurement of things. And you can just sort of, frankly you can feel it. You can see it in the numbers sure, but you can kind of feel that excitement, you can see that adoption and what it empowers people to do. And so to me, as a product leader, it's always a blend of those things. If you get too obsessed with purely the metrics, you can always over optimize something for the wrong reason. So you have to bring in that qualitative feedback to balance yourself out. >> Right. >> Guillermo, what's next? What do you not have that you want from Sahir and Mongo? >> So the natural next step for serverless computing is, is the Edge. So we have to auto-scale, we have to tolerate fares. We have to be avail. We have to be easy, but we have to be global. And right now we've been doing this by using a lot of techniques like caching and replication and things like this. But the future's about personalizing even more to each visitor depending on where they are. So if I'm in New York, I want to get the latest offers for New York on demand, just for me, and using AI to continue to personalize that experience. So giving the developer these tools in a way where it feels natural to build an application like this. It doesn't feel like, "Oh I'm going to do this year 10 if I make it, I'm going to do it since the very beginning." >> Dave: Okay interesting. So that says to me that I'm not going to make a round trip to the cloud necessarily for that experience. So I'm going to have some kind, Apple today, at the Worldwide Developer Conference announced the M2, right. I've been looking at the M1 Ultra, and I'm going wow look at that! And so- >> Sahir: You were talking about that new one backstage. >> I mean it's this amazing pace of Silicon development and they're focusing on the NPU and you look at what Tesla's doing. I mean it's just incredible. So you're going to have some new hardware architecture that emerges. Most of the AI that's done today is modeling in the cloud. You're going to have a real time inferencing at the Edge. So that's not going to do the round trip. There's going to be a data store there, I think it has to be. You're going to persist some of the data, maybe not all of it. So it's a whole new architecture- >> Sahir: Absolutely. >> That's developing. That sounds very disruptive. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> How do you think about that, and how does Mongo play there? Guillermo first. >> What I spent a lot of time thinking about is obviously the developer experience, giving the programmer a programming model that is natural, intuitive, and produces its great results. So if they have to think about data that's local because of regulatory reasons for example, how can we let the framework guide them to success? I'm just writing an application I deployed to the cloud and then everything else is figured out. >> Yeah or speed of light is another challenge. (Sahir and Guillermo laugh) >> How can we overcome the speed of light is our next task for sure. >> Well you're working on that aren't you? You've got the best engineers on that one. (Sahir and Guillermo laugh) >> We can solve a lot of problems, I'm not sure of that one. >> So Mongo plays in that scenario or? >> Yeah so I think, absolutely you know, we've been focused heavily on becoming the globally distributed cloud data layer. The back-end data layer that allows you to persist data to align with performance and move data where it needs to be globally or deal with data sovereignty, data nationalism that's starting to rise, but absolutely there is more data being pushed out to the Edge, to your point around processing or inference happening at the Edge. And there's going to be a globally distributed front-end layer as well, whether data and processing takes apart. And so we're focused on one, making sure the data connectivity and the layer is all connected into one unified architecture. We do that in combination with technologies that we have that do with mobility or edge distribution and synchronization of data with realm. And we do it with partnerships. We have edge partnerships with AWS and Verizon. We have partnerships with a lot of CVM players who are building out that Edge platform and making sure that MongoDB is either connected to it or just driving that synchronization back and forth. >> I call that unified experience super cloud, Robbie Belson from Verizon the cloud continuum, but that consistent experience for developers whether you're on Prim, whether you're in you know, Azure, Google, AWS, and ultimately the Edge. That's the big- >> That's where it's going. >> White space right now I'm hearing, Guillermo, right? >> I think it'll define the next generation of how software is built. And we're seeing this almost like a coalition course between some of the ideas that the Web3 developers are excited about, which is like decentralization almost to the extreme. But the Web2 also needs more decentralization, because we're seeing it with like, the data needs to be local to me, I need more privacy. I was looking at the latest encryption features in Mongo, like I think both Web2 need to incorporate more of the ideas of Web3 and vice versa to create the best possible consumer experience. Privacy matters more than ever before. Latency for conversion matters more than ever before. And regulations are changing. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> And you talked about Web3 earlier, talked about new protocols, a new distributed you know, decentralized system emerging, new hardware architectures. I really believe we really think that new economics are going to bleed back into the data center, and yeah every 15 years or so this industry gets disrupted. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> You know you ain't see nothing yet guys. >> We all talked about hardware becoming commoditized 10, 15 years ago- >> Yeah of course. >> We get the virtualization, and it's like nope not at all. It's actually a lot of invention happening. >> The lower the price the more the consumption. So guys thanks so much. Great conversation. >> Thank you. >> Really appreciate your time. >> Really appreciate it I enjoyed the conversation. >> All right and thanks for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be back with our next segment right after this short break. Dave Vellante for theCUBE's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. >> Man Offscreen: Clear. (clapping) >> All right wow. Don't get up. >> Sahir: Okay. >> Is that a Moonwatch? >> Sahir: It is a Speedmaster but it's that the-

>> Man Offscreen: Standby. Dave is coming you in 5, 4, 3, 2. >> We're back at the Big Apple, theCUBE's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. Sahir Azam is here, he's the Chief Product Officer of MongoDB, and Guillermo Rauch who's the CEO of Vercel. Hot off the keynotes from this morning guys, good job. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for joining us here. Thanks for having us. Guillermo when it comes to modern web development, you know the back-end, the cloud guys got to it kind of sewn up, >> you know- >> Guillermo: Forget about it. >> But all the action's in the front end, and that's where you are. Explain Vercel. >> Yeah so Vercel is the company that pioneers front-end development as serverless infrastructure. So we built Next.js which is the most popular React framework in the world. This is what front-end engineers choose to build innovative UI's, beautiful websites. Companies like Dior and GitHub and TikTok and Twitch, which we mentioned in the keynote, are powering their entire dot-coms or all of their new parts of their dot-coms with Next.js. And Vercel is the serverless platform where you can deploy frameworks like in Next.js and others like Svelte and Vue to create really fast experiences on the web. >> So I hear, so serverless, I hear that's the hot trend. You guys made some announcements today. I mean when you look at the, we have spending data with our friends at ETR right down the street. I mean it's just off the charts, whether it's Amazon, Google, Azure Functions, I mean it's just exploding. >> Sahir: Yeah, it's I think in many ways, it's a natural trend. You know, we talk a lot about, whether it be today's keynote or another industry talks you see around our industry that developers are constantly looking for ways to focus on innovation and the business logic that defines their application and as opposed to managing the plumbing, and management of infrastructure. And we've seen this happen over and over again across every layer of the stack. And so for us, you know MongoDB, we have a bit of, you know sort of a lens of a broad spectrum of the market. We certainly have you know, large enterprises that are modernizing existing kind of core systems, then we have developers all over the world who are building the next big best thing. And that's what led us to partner with Vercel is just the bleeding edge of developers building in a new way, in a much more efficient way. And we wanted to make sure we provide a data platform that fits naturally in the way they want to work. >> So explain to our audience the trade-offs of serverless, and I want to get into sort of how you've resolved that. And then I want to hear from Guillermo, what that means for developers. >> Sahir: Yeah in our case, we don't view it as an either or, there are certain workloads and definitely certain companies that will gravitate towards a more traditional database infrastructure where they're choosing the configuration of their cluster. They want full control over it. And that provides, you know, certain benefits around cost predictability or isolation or perceived benefits at least of those things. And customers will gravitate towards that. Now on the flip side, if you're building a new application or you want the ability to scale seamlessly and not have to worry about any of the plumbing, serverless is clearly the easier model. So over the long term, we certainly expect to see as a mix of things, more and more serverless workloads being built on our platform and just generally in the industry, which is why we leaned in so heavily on investing in Atlas serverless. But the flexibility to not be forced into a particular model, but to get the same database experience across your application and even switch between them is an important characteristic for us as we build going forward. >> And you stressed the cost efficiency, and not having to worry about, you know, starting cold. You've architected around that, and what does that mean for a developer? >> Guillermo: For a developer it means that you kind of get the best of both worlds, right? Like you get the best possible performance. Front-end developers are extremely sensitive to this. That's why us pioneering this concept, serverless front-end, has put us in a very privileged position because we have to deliver that really quick time to first buy, that really quick paint. So any of the old trade-offs of serverless are not accepted by the market. You have to be extremely fast. You have to be instant to deliver that front-end content. So what we talked about today for example, with the Vercel Edge network, we're removing all of the cost of that like first hit. That cold start doesn't really exist. And now we're seeing it all across the board, going into the back-end where Mongo has also gotten rid of it. >> Dave: How do you guys collaborate? What's the focus of integration specifically from, you know, an engineering resource standpoint? >> Yeah the main idea is, idea to global app in seconds, right? You have your idea. We give you the framework. We don't give you infrastructure primitives. We give you all the necessary tools to start your application. In practice this means you host it in a Git repo. You import it onto Vercel. You install the Mongo integration. Now your front-end and your data back-end are connected. And then your application just goes global in seconds. >> So, okay. So you've abstracted away the complexity of those primitives, is that correct? >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> Do do developers ever say, "That's awesome but I'd like to get to them every now and then." Or do you not allow that? >> Definitely. We expose all the underlying APIs, and the key thing we hear is that, especially with the push for usage-based billing models, observability is of the essence. So at any time you have to be able to query, in real time, every data point that the platform is observing. We give you performance analytics in real time to see how your front-end is performing. We give you statistics about how often you're querying your back-end and so on, and your cache hit ratios. So what I talked about today in the keynote is, it's not just about throwing more compute at the problem, but the ability to use the edge to your advantage to memoize computation and reuse it across different visits. >> When we think of mission critical historically, you know, you think about going to the ATM, right? I mean a financial transaction. But Mongo is positioning for mission critical applications across a variety of industries. Do we need to rethink what mission critical means? >> I think it's all in the eye of the beholder so to speak. If you're a new business starting up, your software and your application is your entire business. So if you have a cold start latency or God forbid something actually goes down, you don't have a business. So it's just as mission critical to that founder of a new business and new technology as it is, you know, an established enterprise that's running sort of a more, you know, day-to-day application that we may all interact with. So we treat all of those scenarios with equal fervor and importance right? And many times, it's a lot of those new experiences that the become the day-to-day experiences for us globally, and are super important. And we power all of those, whether it be an established enterprise all the way to the next big startup. >> I often talk about COVID as the forced march to digital. >> Sahir: Mm-Hmm. >> Which was obviously a little bit rushed, but if you weren't in digital business, you were out of business. And so now you're seeing people step back and say, "All right, let's be more thoughtful about our digital transformation. We've got some time, we've obviously learned some things made some mistakes." It's all about the customer experience though. And that becomes mission critical right? What are you seeing Guillermo, in terms of the patterns in digital transformation now that we're sort of exiting the isolation economy? >> One thing that comes to mind is, we're seeing that it's not always predictable how fast you're going to grow in this digital economy. So we have customers in the ecommerce space, they do a drop and they're piggybacking on serverless to give them that ability to instantly scale. And they couldn't even prepare for some of these events. We see that a lot with the Web3 space and NFT drops, where they're building in such a way that they're not sensitive to this massive fluctuations in traffic. They're taking it for granted. We've put in so much work together behind the scenes to support it. But the digital native creator just, "Oh things are scaling from one second to the next like I'm hitting like 20,000 requests per second, no problem Vercel is handling it." But the amount of infrastructural work that's gone behind the scenes in support has been incredible. >> We see that in gaming all the time, you know it's really hard for a gaming company to necessarily predict where in the globe a game's going to be particularly hot. Games get super popular super fast if they're successful, it's really hard to predict. It's another vertical that's got a similar dynamic. >> So gaming, crypto, so you're saying that you're able to assist your customers in architecting so that the website doesn't crash. >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> But at the same time, if the the business dynamic changes, they can dial down. >> Yeah. >> Right and in many ways, slow is the new down, right? And if somebody has a slow experience they're going to leave your site just as much as if it's- >> I'm out of here- >> You were down. So you know, it's really maintaining that really fast performance, that amazing customer experience. Because this is all measured, it's scientific. Like anytime there's friction in the process, you're going to lose customers. >> So obviously people are excited about your keynote, but what have they been saying? Any specific comments you can share, or questions that you got that were really interesting or? >> I'm already getting links to the apps that people are deploying. So the whole idea- >> Come on! >> All over the world. Yeah so it's already working I'm excited. >> So they were show they were showing off, "Look what I did" Really? >> Yeah on Twitter. >> That's amazing. >> I think from my standpoint, I got a question earlier, we were with a bunch of financial analysts and investors, and they said they've been talking to a lot of the customers in the halls. And just to see, you know, from the last time we were all in person, the number of our customers that are using multiple capabilities across this idea of a developer data platform, you know, certainly MongoDB's been a popular core database open source for a long time. But the new capabilities around search, analytics, mobile being adopted much more broadly to power these experiences is the most exciting thing from our side. >> So from 2019 to now, you're saying substantial uptick in adoption for these features? >> Yeah. And many of them are new. >> Time series as well, that's pretty new, so yeah. >> Yeah and you know, our philosophy of development at MongoDB is to get capabilities in the hands of customers early. Get that feedback to enrich and drive that product-market fit. And over the last three years especially, we've been transitioning from a single product kind of core, you know, non relational modern database to a data platform, a developer data platform that adds more and more capabilities to power these modern applications. And a lot of those were released during the pandemic. Certainly we talked about them in our virtual conferences and all the zoom meetings we had over the years. But to actually go talk to all these customers, this is the largest conference we've ever put on, and to get a sense of, wow all the amazing things they're doing with them, it's definitely a different feeling when we're all together. >> So that's interesting, when you have such a hot product, product-led growth which is what Mongo has been in, and you add these new features. They're coming from the developers who are saying, "Hey, we need this." >> Yip. >> Okay so you have a pretty high degree of confidence, but how do you know when you have product-market fit? I mean, is it adoption, usage, renewals? What's your metric? >> Yeah I think it's a mix of quantitative measures that you know, around conversion rates, the size of your funnel, the retention rate, NPS which obviously can be measured, but also just qualitative. You know when you're talking to a developer or a technology executive around what their needs are, and then you see how they actually apply it to solve a problem, it's that balance between the qualitative and the quantitative measurement of things. And you can just sort of, frankly you can feel it. You can see it in the numbers sure, but you can kind of feel that excitement, you can see that adoption and what it empowers people to do. And so to me, as a product leader, it's always a blend of those things. If you get too obsessed with purely the metrics, you can always over optimize something for the wrong reason. So you have to bring in that qualitative feedback to balance yourself out. >> Right. >> Guillermo, what's next? What do you not have that you want from Sahir and Mongo? >> So the natural next step for serverless computing is, is the Edge. So we have to auto-scale, we have to tolerate fares. We have to be avail. We have to be easy, but we have to be global. And right now we've been doing this by using a lot of techniques like caching and replication and things like this. But the future's about personalizing even more to each visitor depending on where they are. So if I'm in New York, I want to get the latest offers for New York on demand, just for me, and using AI to continue to personalize that experience. So giving the developer these tools in a way where it feels natural to build an application like this. It doesn't feel like, "Oh I'm going to do this year 10 if I make it, I'm going to do it since the very beginning." >> Dave: Okay interesting. So that says to me that I'm not going to make a round trip to the cloud necessarily for that experience. So I'm going to have some kind, Apple today, at the Worldwide Developer Conference announced the M2, right. I've been looking at the M1 Ultra, and I'm going wow look at that! And so- >> Sahir: You were talking about that new one backstage. >> I mean it's this amazing pace of Silicon development and they're focusing on the NPU and you look at what Tesla's doing. I mean it's just incredible. So you're going to have some new hardware architecture that emerges. Most of the AI that's done today is modeling in the cloud. You're going to have a real time inferencing at the Edge. So that's not going to do the round trip. There's going to be a data store there, I think it has to be. You're going to persist some of the data, maybe not all of it. So it's a whole new architecture- >> Sahir: Absolutely. >> That's developing. That sounds very disruptive. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> How do you think about that, and how does Mongo play there? Guillermo first. >> What I spent a lot of time thinking about is obviously the developer experience, giving the programmer a programming model that is natural, intuitive, and produces its great results. So if they have to think about data that's local because of regulatory reasons for example, how can we let the framework guide them to success? I'm just writing an application I deployed to the cloud and then everything else is figured out. >> Yeah or speed of light is another challenge. (Sahir and Guillermo laugh) >> How can we overcome the speed of light is our next task for sure. >> Well you're working on that aren't you? You've got the best engineers on that one. (Sahir and Guillermo laugh) >> We can solve a lot of problems, I'm not sure of that one. >> So Mongo plays in that scenario or? >> Yeah so I think, absolutely you know, we've been focused heavily on becoming the globally distributed cloud data layer. The back-end data layer that allows you to persist data to align with performance and move data where it needs to be globally or deal with data sovereignty, data nationalism that's starting to rise, but absolutely there is more data being pushed out to the Edge, to your point around processing or inference happening at the Edge. And there's going to be a globally distributed front-end layer as well, whether data and processing takes apart. And so we're focused on one, making sure the data connectivity and the layer is all connected into one unified architecture. We do that in combination with technologies that we have that do with mobility or edge distribution and synchronization of data with realm. And we do it with partnerships. We have edge partnerships with AWS and Verizon. We have partnerships with a lot of CVM players who are building out that Edge platform and making sure that MongoDB is either connected to it or just driving that synchronization back and forth. >> I call that unified experience super cloud, Robbie Belson from Verizon the cloud continuum, but that consistent experience for developers whether you're on Prim, whether you're in you know, Azure, Google, AWS, and ultimately the Edge. That's the big- >> That's where it's going. >> White space right now I'm hearing, Guillermo, right? >> I think it'll define the next generation of how software is built. And we're seeing this almost like a coalition course between some of the ideas that the Web3 developers are excited about, which is like decentralization almost to the extreme. But the Web2 also needs more decentralization, because we're seeing it with like, the data needs to be local to me, I need more privacy. I was looking at the latest encryption features in Mongo, like I think both Web2 need to incorporate more of the ideas of Web3 and vice versa to create the best possible consumer experience. Privacy matters more than ever before. Latency for conversion matters more than ever before. And regulations are changing. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> And you talked about Web3 earlier, talked about new protocols, a new distributed you know, decentralized system emerging, new hardware architectures. I really believe we really think that new economics are going to bleed back into the data center, and yeah every 15 years or so this industry gets disrupted. >> Sahir: Yeah. >> Guillermo: Absolutely. >> You know you ain't see nothing yet guys. >> We all talked about hardware becoming commoditized 10, 15 years ago- >> Yeah of course. >> We get the virtualization, and it's like nope not at all. It's actually a lot of invention happening. >> The lower the price the more the consumption. So guys thanks so much. Great conversation. >> Thank you. >> Really appreciate your time. >> Really appreciate it I enjoyed the conversation. >> All right and thanks for watching. Keep it right there. We'll be back with our next segment right after this short break. Dave Vellante for theCUBE's coverage of MongoDB World 2022. >> Man Offscreen: Clear. (clapping) >> All right wow. Don't get up. >> Sahir: Okay. >> Is that a Moonwatch? >> Sahir: It is a Speedmaster but it's that the-

>> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hi everybody, we're back this is Dave Vellante from theCUBE and you're watching our wall-to-wall coverage of IBM's Digital Think 2020 event and we are really pleased to have Guillermo Miranda here. He's the Vice President of Corporate and Social Responsibility. Guillermo thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Absolutely, good afternoon to you. Good evening, wherever you are. >> So, you know this notion of corporate responsibility, it really has gained steam lately and of course with COVID-19, companies like IBM really have to take the lead on this. The tech industry actually has been one of those industries that has been less hard hit and IBM as a leader along with some other companies are really being looked at to step up. So talk a little bit about social responsibility in the context of the current COVID climate. >> Absolutely. Now thank you for the question. Look, first our responsibility is with the safety of our employees and the continuity of business for our clients. In this frame what we have done is see what is the most adequate areas to respond to the emergency of the pandemic and using what we know in terms of expertise and the talent that we have is why we decided to work first with high performance computing. IBM design and produce the fastest computers in the world. So Summit and a consortium of providers of high performance computing is helping on the discovery of vaccinations and drugs for the pandemic. The second thing that we are doing is related with data and insights. We own The Weather Company which is at 80 million people connected to check the weather every morning, every afternoon. So through The Weather Company, we are providing insights and data about county level information on COVID-19. Another thing that we are doing is we are offering some of our products for free. Watson, it is a chatbot to inform about what is adequate, what is needed in the middle of a pandemic if you are a consumer. We are also helping with our volunteers. IBM volunteers are helping teachers and school districts to rapidly flip into remote learning and get used to the tools of working on a remote environment. And finally we have a micro volunteering opportunity for anybody that has a computer or an android phone. So with the world community grid, you can help with the discovery also of drugs and vaccinations for COVID-19. >> Wow that's great, those are four awesome initiatives. They can't get the vaccine fast enough. Getting good quality information in the hands of people in this era of fake news also very very important. Students missing out on some of the key parts of their learning so remote learning is key. I love this idea of kind of micro crowd sourcing solutions. Really kind of opening that up and hopefully we'll have some big wins there Guillermo. Thank you for that. I want to ask you people talk about blue collar jobs, they talk about white collar jobs, you guys talk about new collar jobs. You and others. What are new collar jobs and why are they important? >> Look, in this data, digital, artificial intelligence driven economy, it's important not to have a digital divide between the haves and the have nots on the foundational skills to be operational in a digital economy. So new collar jobs are precisely the intersection of the skills that you need to operate in this digital driven economy with the basic knowledge to be a user of technology. So think about a cyber security analyst. You don't need a masters degree in industrial engineering to be a cyber security analyst. You just need the basic things about operating an environment on a security control center for instance. Or talk about blockchain or talk about software engineering, full stack developer. There are many roles that you can do in this economy where you don't need to have a full four-year degree in a university to have a decent paying job for the digital economy. These are the new collar jobs and what we are attempting to do with the new collar job definition is to get rid of the paradigm that the university degree is the only passport to a successful career in the marketplace. You can start in different, having the opportunity to have a job in a high tech area. Not necessarily with a PhD in engineering as I said, it's something important for us, for our clients and for the community. >> Yeah, so that's a very interesting concept that a lot of us can relate to. To go back to our university days, many of the courses that we took, we shook our heads and said, "okay, why do I have to take this?" Okay, I get it, well rounded liberal arts experience, that's all good but it's almost like you're implying that the notion of specialization that we've known for years like for instance, in vocations, auto-mechanic, woodworking, etc. Planning that have really critical aspect of the economy. Applying that to the technology business. It's genius and very simple. >> Absolutely. Look, this is the reinvention of vocational education for the 21st century where you continue to need the plumber, you continue to need the hairdresser but also you need people that operate the digital platforms and are comfortable with this environment and they don't need to pass at the beginning through full university. And it's also the concept that we have divided the secondary education, high school from college, university etc., like a Chinese wall. Here is high school, here is college. No! There can be a clear integration because you can start to get ready without finishing high school yet. So there are several paradigms that we have evolved in the previous century that now we need to change and be ready for this 21st century digital driven economy. >> Yeah, very refreshing. Really about time that this thinking came into practice. Talk about P-Tech. How does P-Tech fit into acquiring these skills? And maybe you could give us a sense as to the sort of profile of the folks and there backgrounds and give us a sense as to and add some color to how that's all working. >> Absolutely, so look, the P-Tech model started 10 years ago in a high school in New York City, in Brooklyn. And the whole idea is to go to an under-served area and create a ramp onto success that will help you to first finish high school. Finishing high school is very important and has a lot connotations for your future. And then at the same time, they start getting an associate degree in an area of high growth. The third component is the industry partner. An industry partner that works with the school district and the community college in order to bring the knowledge of what is needed in that community in order to create real job opportunities and we will send you the people and then you will use it. No! We need to work together in order to train the talent for the future. And you just go to the middle age and the guilds were the ones that were preparing the workers. So the industry was preparing the workforce. Why in the 20th century we renounced to that? Having real, relevant skills starting in high school, helping the kids to graduate with a dual diploma. High school, college and practice in real life what it is to be in a workplace environment. So we have more than 220 schools. In this school year, we have more than 150,000 kids in 24 countries already working through the P-Tech model. >> Love it and really scaling that up. So let's say I'm an individual. I'm a young person, I'm from a diverse background, maybe my parents came to this country and I'm a first generation American. Of course, it's not just the United States, it's global but let's say I'm from a background that's less advantaged, how do I take advantage? How hard is it for me to tap in to something like P-Tech and get these skills? >> Well, first one of the characteristics of the model is this is free admission. So there is not a barrier fence. If your school district offers P-Tech, you can apply to P-Tech and get into the P-Tech model education without any barrier without any account. And the second thing that you need to have is curiosity. Because it's not going to be the typical high school where you have math, science, gym, whatever. This is more of an integration of how the look of a career will be in the future and how you have to start understanding that there are drivers into the economy that are fast tracks into well paid jobs. So curiosity on top of being ready to join a P-Tech school in the school district where you live in. >> That's great Guillermo, thank you for sharing that. Now of course corporate responsibility, that's a wide net. This is one of your passions. I'll give you the last word to kind of, where do you see this whole corporate responsibility movement going generally and specifically within IBM? >> I think that this whole pandemic will just accelerate some of the clear trends in the marketplace. Corporate responsibility cannot be an afterthought as before in the '80s or '90s. I will put a foundation. I have a little of profits that are left and then I will distribute grants and that's my whole corporate responsibility approach. Corporate responsibility needs to be within the fabric of how do you do business. It has to be embedded into the values of your company and your value proposition and you have to serve those projects with the same kind of skills and technology, in the case of IBM, that you do for your commercial engagements. And this is what we do in IBM. We help IBMers to be helpful to their communities with the same kind of quality and platforms that we offer to our clients. And we help to solve one of the most complicated problems in society through technology, innovation, time. >> Love it. Guillermo thanks so much, you're doing great work. Really appreciate you coming on theCUBE and sharing with our audience. Congratulations. >> Absolutely. Thank you for very much for having me. >> You're very welcome and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante from theCUBE. You're watching our continuous coverage of IBM Think 2020, the digital version. Keep it right there, we'll be right back after this short break. (bright music)

(upbeat music) >> Live, from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live!, Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona, this is Cisco Live 2019, and you're watching theCUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost Dave Vellante and John Furrier is here, three days wall-to-wall coverage, and we are absolutely thrilled to welcome to the program, for the first time the CIO of Cisco, Guillermo Diaz, Jr., also a senior vice president. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> What's your key priority today, some of the big challenges that you're focused on, Guillermo? >> Yeah, so I think the key challenges are really around. I would say for me it starts, it's in between, and it ends with the people. And I think it's the cultural shift that happens along this journey as well so, a lot of folks says, "yeah, we're IT, we're the leaders "in technology in the company." And I think moving from that back office to, now every business, the foundation of which, if you're going to be a digital company, is technology, so who in the company is the best suited to really help that conversation is IT. So IT is now becoming part of the business transformation of every business, whether you're in technology, like myself, whether you're in oil and gas, whether you're in retail, whether you're in finance, etc. Technology's driving the digital business transformation. So, it's really about how, that we not only use technology, but what is the impact on our processes, how we digitize, if you will. But more importantly is, how do you bring the people? How do you cultivate the best people and talent so that you can actually move up the stack, and it's not easy for someone that's been hugging routers for many, many years, and now you tell them, "Hey, you have to do drive programmability." And they're like, "What does that mean?" Well you have to learn >> Python and Ansible >> Yeah. >> Code that infrastructure. >> Now you need to code this thing because you need to provide that thing you provided in eight weeks, now you have to provide it in eight minutes. >> Right. >> And that's a big shift in mindset as well. >> Yeah, so, Guillermo, I know that STEM is a passion of yours, talk to us a little bit about that pipeline, and we love large technology companies like Cisco is to, how do you get down to not just the universities, but even some of the more elementary schools and help make sure that they're ready so that when, we're not sitting here saying, "I've got thousands of jobs and nobody "that is prepared to take that job." >> Yeah, well again, when you think about what you just said, with STEM, well what are you cultivating? You're cultivating the pipeline of people, and the more people that you have trained up in those technologies, and we do a lot with not only universities, but even below, even before university. We have a program, a work-study program that we have in Cisco IT, and we have several partners, one of which is called Cristo Rey Academy, and what we do is, part of the curriculum is four days a week you go to school, one day a week you work at Cisco. And these are kids from 14 years old to 17, 18. And they are learning now, some of these kids come from really low income or underserved communities, and now they're coming in and they're learning about, "How do I set up a wireless infrastructure? "How do I set up a telepresence environment?" And when they walk out, they're not only going to a university that they never thought of going to, like Cornell or like Humboldt State or whatever it might be, but they also have this skill, they also have this experience, because now you're putting them in an environment, and they're like sponges, and it's amazing what we can do, and now you fast forward that into a university pipeline. We bring in about, in Cisco IT, and broadly across Cisco many more, but 200 university hires every year, and they're providing instant value, because they're challenging us. They're like, us dinosaurs, I don't like to think of myself as a dinosaur, but I've been there 19 years, and sometimes I think a certain way, and I have to unlearn some things, and when I hear these people talk, I'm learning and I'm relearning things, and I'm unlearning some things. >> Well if you surround yourself with millennials and gamers, you do learn new things, you can't help it. >> Yeah, you learn new ways of thinking, new design thinking methodologies, stuff like that. >> I want to ask you about the organization. When we get the CIOs of large technology companies on, a lot of times you guys have implemented best practice, and we get a lot of questions around, what's the right organization? For instance, do you guys have a Chief Data Officer? Do you have one? >> So, what is the right organization? >> Well, do you have a Chief Data Officer? >> First, I don't know that there's a right organization. >> Is that, you know right, put that in quotes, but so do you have a CDO? >> Yeah. >> And where does that CDO fit in the organization, what's your relationship with her or him? >> Yeah, so why I say there's not a right organization is, we didn't have a real focus on data. Data was the database crew, the people that did the big data platform, and one of the evolutions we did, in about 2015 we actually brought data up to the CIO level, and we said that that was going to be a strategic pillar, along with how do we simplify, how do we automate, how do we get the data insights to be able to make decisions and then secure our business. Those are the five pillars of our digital strategy. So data and the insight was the big key strategic pillar for us. And so that helped us really start to accelerate our agile motion into you know. And as we learned in the last year, we actually elevated that role. We actually moved it from IT into the next level of operations. >> So it's a peer level to you, is that right? >> So now we've taken that role from my team, which was the Chief Data, now it's the Chief Data Officer, named Shanthi Iyer, and Shanthi was working in my team, and now she's working under the COO, because we believe that data's such a critical asset. It's the oil, it's the fuel of the business. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's the foundation, so we've elevated it up to that level, and now, really driving it >> That's awesome. >> From a business perspective. >> Great. Guillermo, we've seen Cloud go through a lot of changes both as an industry as well as Cisco's relationship to what you've been building and where you've been partnering. How's that impacting things on the IT side? >> Oh, I think Cloud is, it's interesting, I get to talk to many of my peers. Every day I'm talking to one of my peers, and many of us go, "We have a Cloud-first strategy" or "We have a Cloud strategy." And a lot of times you'll go, "We have a Cloud Strategy." And it's like, "What's up in the? What's?" Because if you think about it, Cloud is in some data center somewhere, but the impact on that is pretty tremendous because there's so many now "Clouds". And they come in the form of Saas, they come in the form of infrastructure as a service, and so you have put a wrapper around it or it could get out of control. And for us, we have what we call a "multi-cloud strategy." Luckily, we learned Cloud early on, and we initially called it virtualization, right? So we automated network compute and storage, and that wasn't good enough, because then we needed to automate the application infrastructure level, and then we needed to automate how we actually deliver, so as we moved up the stack, we learned how to virtualize, or, fast-forward, how to Cloudify our environment, so we grew up in our private Cloud, and then we extended that to, Okay, now you can go provision if you need to, you can provision public Cloud services if you want to do experimentation or whatever the use case might be, but Cloud is now changing the business. We have to move fast, but at the same time, you have to be secure, because we have in Cisco, just to give you an idea, we have 442 applications in the Cloud. The question is, how do you stitch those together? How do you make them secure? Because data is traversing across that, so it's really about Cloud, data, and security, all in one wrapper that you have to be thinking about. >> Enforcing that consistent policy, the corporate edicts. So it's interesting, you talked about multi-cloud. We saw this week a number of announcements from Cisco around multi-Cloud, ACI anywhere, HyperFlex, At the Edge. Over the years we've seen innovations around, we were talking about this before, programmable infrastructure, are you a Petri dish for those products coming to market? >> We're Cava. We drink our own Cava >> Yeah, not dog food. >> No, we don't like dog food, we like Cava. So we call ourselves "Customer Zero", and so the first order of battle, though, is we have to run our business. We're running a 50 billion dollar business, and that's the first order of battle. The second is, oh by the way can we use our own, what we're talking about here, to run that 50 billion dollar business, and that's sort of our multiple hats that we wear. We're the enabler, but we're also a large consumer. And being able to put that together, we call it "Customer Zero." We used to say, "We're the first and best customer." But for us that's too late, so we said, "We need to be Customer Zero, we need to be the first to take on some of these solutions and products, so that we can provide feedback to our engineering teams, our sales teams, our services teams, but more importantly, how do we become the reference, and we have an IT management program going on right now where we're talking about a lot of these things to 800 customers for a three day period. So those are the kinds of things that we do. >> Right. >> So, we love to hear you're using the products, we're here in the DevNet zone, and we've been hearing a lot over the last four or five years, Susie Wee and the team, how does that >> Right, she's my other partner in crime. >> Great, so talk about how the developer movement, DevNet specifically, DevSecNet, how that impacts your business. >> Yeah, so again, if you go back to programmability, if you go back to Cloud, it's all about having the ability to put all of these components together, so that we can all be productive. And the skill of the future is How do I program this? How do I make all of these things work in the easiest way, and it's coding. And you look around here, and there's coding classes. There's basic coding classes, and a lot of times a network engineer goes, "Why do I need to do that?" And you start to influence them to say, "Well, you need to move up the stack. "You need to be the one that actually provides "an infrastructure in five seconds, versus five weeks, and in order to do that, "you need to develop these new skills." And what Susie and the team have done with DevNet has provided a platform for all of us, around the world, to be able to learn these things, and not just become the network engineer, but become the orchestrator of these capabilities, right? >> When you think about your portfolio. You know, obviously you've got an application portfolio, you've got 400 plus applications in Saas, many more, I'm sure, on Primm. We like to think of this framework of run the business, grow the business, transform the business, and I wonder if you could, first of all, does that framework make sense? It's simple, obviously, but how do you think about your business in terms of running, growing, and transforming, and how you allocate resources to those three areas? >> I think that's been the historical legacy model. And I think when you start to segment it that way, you start to segment innovation as well, because in run the business, as an example, maybe you heard this term, "AI Ops". >> Mm-hmm (affirmative) >> What is the future of operations? Well the future of operations is how do I take all of these monitoring tools that I have, the same thing I've done with network computing storage. How do I stitch them together so that I can actually correlate where an issue is? In order to do that, what we've done is we've taken our operation team, and we've now deployed them into the development teams. This is the, we're not calling it DevOps, it's called DevSecOps, because at the same time, we want you to have a mindset of security first. Think about, as your developing, think about security as you go through the process. So now the operator, the one that used to actually sit there and watch the thing go, now no, I want you to actually be the coder, so that the problem that you're looking for, that you're waiting for, that you're helping solve that proactively. And that you get new skills as well. So the same thing with the network engineer, the operations person now is learning about Python and Ansible and how to stitch the infrastructure, the application, the data, all of that, into more of a monitoring system. >> So what I'm hearing is that you're taking that notion of run the business, grow the business, transform the business, bring it together, and everybody's responsible for running the business, growing the business, and transforming the business. >> And you're responsible for innovation. >> So it's continuous innovation model versus a stovepipe segmentation model. >> Continuous innovation, continuous improvement, continuous learning. >> Guillermo, I want to give you the final word. Here we are at the beginning of 2019. When you talk to your peers, the CIOs out there, whether it be tech, enterprise, startups, what are some of the biggest challenges, biggest opportunities that are on their plate. >> Yeah, I think it's, we're in an interesting time in IT in the world, where technology's foundational to every business. So my call to action is, there's one organization in the company, in every company, that knows technology, and that's IT. And they know the infrastructure and they know the ops. So the more that we can put those together into helping solve the secure digital business transformation, and not just talking about it from a technology perspective, but how do we use that to really articulate and translate that into business outcomes. And there's a lot in that, it's how do we use our own technology, how do we change our skills? How do we unlearn some things to relearn how to communicate with the business so that we can learn to go faster. >> Guillermo Diaz, Jr, thank you so much for sharing the viewpoint of Cisco and the changing role of the CIO. Dave Vellante and I will be back with lots more coverage here from Cisco Live 2019, in Barcelona, Spain. Thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (futuristic music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain it's theCUBE! Covering Cisco Live! Europe brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCube's live coverage here in Barcelona, Spain for Cisco Live! Europe 2019. We're at day three of three days of coverage I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante Our next two guests we're going to talk about privacy data Michelle Dennnedy, VP and Chief Privacy officer at Cisco and Robert Waitman who is the Director of Security and Trust. Welcome back, we had them last year and everything we talked about kinda's happening on steroids here this year >> Yep. >> Welcome back >> Thank you glad to be here >> Thanks for having us >> So security, privacy all go hand in hand. A lot going on. You're seeing more breaches you're seeing more privacy challenges Certainly GDPR's going to the next level. People are, quote, complying here's a gig of data go figure it out. So there's a lot happening, give us the update. >> Well, as we suggested last year it was privacypalooza all year long running up to the enforcement deadline of May 25, 2018. There were sort of two kinds of companies. There's one that ran up to that deadline and said woohoo we're ready to drive this baby forward! And then there's a whole nother set of people who are still sort of oh my gosh. And then there's a third category of people who still don't understand. I had someone come up to me several weeks ago and say what do I do? When is this GDPR going to be a law? I thought oh honey you need a hug >> Two years ago, you need some help. >> And some companies in the US, at least were turning off their websites. Some media companies were in the news for actually shutting down their site and not making it available because they weren't ready. So a lot of people were caught off guard, some were prepared but still, you said people would be compliant, kind of and they did that but still more work to do. >> Lots more work to do and as we said when the law was first promulgated two and a half years ago GDPR and the deadline A, It's just one region but as you'll hear as we talk about our study it's impacting the globe but it's also not the end of anything it's the beginning of the information economy at long last. So, I think we all have a lot to do even if you feel rather confident of your base-level compliance now it's time to step up your game and keep on top of it. >> Before we get into some of the details of the new finding you guys have I want you to take a minute to explain how your role is now centered in the middle of Cisco because if you look at the keynotes data's in the center of a lot of things in this intent based network on one side and you've got cloud and edge on the other. Data is the new ingredient that's feeding applications and certainly collective intelligence for security. So the role of data is critical. This is a big part of the Cisco tech plan nevermind policy and or privacy and these other things you're in the middle of it. Explain your role within Cisco and how that shapes you. >> How we sort of fit in. Well it's such a good question and actually if you watch our story through theCUBE we announced, actually on data privacy day several years ago that data is the new currency and this is exactly what we're talking about the only way that you can operationalize your data currency is to really think about it throughout the platform. You're not just pleasing a regulator you're not just pleasing your shareholders you're not just pleasing your employee base. So, as such, the way we organize our group is my role sits under the COO's office our Chief Operations Office under the office of John Stewart who is our Chief Trust officer. So security, trust, advanced research all live together in operations. We have sister organizations in places like public policy, legal, marketing, the sales groups the people who are actually operationalizing come together for a group. My role really is to provide two types of strategy. One, rolling out privacy engineering and getting across inside and outside of the company as quickly as possible. It's something new. As soon as we have set processes I put them into my sister organization and they send them out as routine and hopefully automated things. The other side is the work Robert and I do together is looking at data valuation models. Working about the economics of data where does it drive up revenue and business and speed time to closure and how do we use data to not just be compliant in the privacy risk but really control our overall risk and the quality of our information overall. It's a mouth full >> So that's interesting and Robert, that leads me to a question when we've seen these unfunded mandates before we saw it with Y2K, the Enron backlash certainly the United States the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. And the folks in the corner office would say oh, here we go again. Is there any way to get more value beyond just reducing risk and complying and have you seen companies be able to take data and value and apply it based on the compliance and governance and privacy policies? >> Dave that's a great question. It's sort of the thought that we had and the hypothesis was that this was going to be more valuable than just for the compliance reasons and one of the big findings of the study that we just released this week was that in fact those investments you know we're saying that good privacy is very good for business. It was painful, some firms stuck their head in the sand and said I don't want to even do this but still, going through the GDPR preparation process or for any of the privacy regulations has taken people to get their data house in order and it's important to communicate. We wanted to find out what benefits were coming from those organizations that had made those investments and that's really what came out in our study this week for international data privacy day we got into that quite a bit. >> What is this study? can you give us some details on it? >> It's the Data Privacy Benchmark study we published this week for international data privacy day. It's sort of an opportunity to focus on data privacy issues both for consumers and for businesses sort of the one day a year kind of like mother's day that you should always think of your mom but mother's day's a good day so you should always think of privacy when you're making decisions about your data but it's a chance to raise awareness. So we published our study this year and it was based on over thirty-two hundred responses from companies around the world from 18 countries all sorts of sizes of companies and the big findings were in fact around that. Privacy has become a serious and a boardroom level issue that the awareness has really skyrocketed for companies who are saying before I do business with you I want to know how you're using my data. What we saw this year is that seven out of eight companies are actually seeing some sales delay from their customers asking those kinds of questions. But those that have made the investment getting ready for GDPR or being more mature on privacy are seeing shorter delays. If you haven't gotten ready you're seeing 60% longer delays. And even more interestingly for us too is when you have data breaches and a lot of companies have them as we've talked about those breaches are not nearly as impactful. The organizations that aren't ready for GDPR are seeing three times as many records impacted by the breach. They're seeing system downtime that's 50% longer and so the cost of the whole thing is much more. So, kind of the question of is this still something good to do? Not only because you have to do it when you want to avoid 4% penalties from GDPR and everything else but it's something that's so important for my business that drives value. >> So the upshot there is that you do the compliance. Okay, check the box, we don't want to get fined So you're taking your medicine basically. Turns into an upside with the data you're seeing from your board. Sales benefit and then just preparedness readiness for breaches. >> Right, I mean it's a nice-- >> Is that right? >> That's exactly right John you've got it right. Then you've got your data house in order I mean there's a logic to this. So then if you figured out where your data is how to protect it, who has access to it you're able to deal with these questions. When customers ask you questions about that you're ready to answer it. And when something bad goes wrong let's say there is a breach you've already done the right things to control your data. You've got rid of the data you don't need anymore. I mean 50% of your data isn't used for anything and of course we suggest that people get rid of that that makes it less available when and if a breach occurs. >> So I got to ask you a question on the data valuation because a lot of the data geeks and data nerds like myself saw this coming. We saw data, mostly on the tech side if you invested in data it was going to feed applications and I think I wrote a blog post in 2007 data's going to be part of the development kits or development environment you're seeing that now here. Data's now part of application development it's part of network intelligence for security. Okay, so yes, check, that's happening. At the CFO level, can you value the data so it's a balance sheet item? Can you say we're investing in this? So you start to see movement you almost project, maybe, in a few years, or now how do you guys see the valuation? Is it going to be another kind of financial metric? >> Well John, it's a great point. Seeing where we're developing around this. So I think we're still in somewhat early days of that issue. I think the organizations that are thinking about data as an asset and monetizing its value are certainly ahead of this we're trying to do that ourselves. We probed on that a little bit in the survey just to get a sense of where organizations are and only about a third of organizations are doing those data mature things. Do they have a complete data map of where their stuff is? Do they have a Chief Data Officer? Are they starting to monetize in appropriate ways, their data? So, there's a long way to go before organizations are really getting the value out of that data. >> But the signals are showing that there's value in the data. Obviously the number of sales there's some upside to compliance not just doin it to check the box there's actually business benefits. So how are you guys thinking about this cause you guys are early adopters or leaders in this how are you thinking about the data measurement of it? Can you share your insights on that? >> Yeah, so you know, data on the balance sheet Grace Hopper 1965, right? data will one day be on the corporate balance sheet because it's in most cases more valuable than the hardware that processes. This is the woman who's making software and hardware work for us, in 1965! Here we are in 2019. It's coming on the balance sheet. She was right then, I believe in it now. What we're doing is, even starting this is a study of correlation rather than causation. So now we have at least the artifacts to say to our legal teams go back and look at when you have one of our new improved streamline privacy sheets and you're telling in a more transparent fashion a deal. Mark the time that you're getting the question. Mark the time that you're finishing. Let's really be much more stilletto-like measuring time to close and efficiency. Then we're adding that capability across our businesses. >> Well one use case we heard on theCUBE this week was around privacy and security in the network versus on top of the network and one point that was referenced was when a salesperson leaves they take the contacts with them. So that's an asset and people get sued over it. So this again, this is a business policy thing. so business policy sounds like... >> Well in a lot of the solutions that exist in the marketplace or have existed I've sat on three encrypted email companies before encrypted email was something the market desired. I've sat on two advisory boards of-- a hope that you could sell your own data to the marketers. Every time someone gets an impression you get a micro cent or a bitcoin. We haven't really got that because we're looking on the periphery. What we're really trying to do is let's look at what the actual business flow and processes are in general and say things like can we put a metric on having less records higher impact, and higher quality. The old data quality in the CDO is rising up again get that higher quality now correlate it with speed to innovation speed to close, launch times the things that make your business run anyway. Now correlate it and eventually find causal connections to data. That's how we're going to get that data on the balance sheet. >> You know, that's a great point the data quality issue used to be kind of a back office records management function and now it's coming to the fore and I just make an observation if you look at what were before Facebook fake news what were the top five companies in the United States in terms of market value Amazon, Google, Facebook was up there, Microsoft, Apple. They're all data companies and so the market has valued them beyond the banks, beyond the oil companies. So you're starting to see clearer evidence quantifiable evidence that there's value there. I want to ask you about we have Guillermo Diaz coming up shortly, Michelle and I want to ask you your thoughts on the technical function. You mentioned it's a board level issue now, privacy. How should the CIO be communicating to the board about privacy? What should that conversation be like? >> Oh my gosh. So we now report quarterly to the board so we're getting a lot of practice We'll put it that way. I think we're on the same journey as the security teams used to you used to walk into the board and go here's what ransomware is and all of these former CFOs and sales guys would look at you and go ah, okay, onto the financials because there wasn't anything for them to do strategically. Today's board metrics are a little soft. It's more activity driven. Have you done your PIAs? Have you passed some sort of a third party audit? Are you getting rejected for third party value chain in your partner communities? That's the have not and da da da. To me I don't want my board telling us how to do operations that's how we do. To really give the board a more strategic view what we're really trying to do is study things like time to close and then showing trending impacts. The one conversation with John Chambers that's always stuck in my head is he doesn't want to know what today's snapshot is cause today's already over give me something over time, Michelle, that will trend. And so even though it sounds like, you know who cares if your sales force is a little annoyed that it takes longer to get this deal through legal well it turns out when you multiply that in a multi-billion dollar environment you're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars probably a week, lost to inefficiency. So, if we believe in efficiency in the tangible supply chain that's the more strategic view I want to take and then you add on things like here's a risk portfolio a potential fair risk reporting type of thing if we want to do a new business Do we light up a business in the Ukraine right now versus Barcelona? That is a strategic conversation that is board level. We've forgotten that by giving them activity. >> Interesting what you say about Chambers. John you just interviewed John Chambers and he was the first person, in the mid 90s to talk about a virtual close, if you remember that. So, obviously, what you're talking about is way beyond that. >> Yeah and you're exactly right. Let's go back to those financial roots. One of the things we talk about in privacy engineering is getting people's heads-- the concept that the data changes. So, the day before your earnings that data will send Chuck Robbins to jail if someone is leaking it and causing people to invest accordingly. The day after, it's news, we want everyone to have it. Look at how you have to process and handle and operationalize in 24 hours. Figuring out those data stories helps it turn it on its head and make it more valuable. >> You know, you mentioned John Chambers one of the things that I noticed was he really represented Silicon Valley well in Washington DC and there's been a real void there since he retired. You guys still have a presence there and are doing stuff there and you see Amazon with Theresa Carlson doing some great work there and you still got Oracle and IBM in there doing their thing. How is your presence and leadership translating into DC now? Can you give us an update of what's happening at-- >> So, I don't know if you caught a little tweet from a little guy named Chuck Robbins this week but Chuck is actually actively engaged in the debate for US federal legislation for privacy. The last thing we want is only the lobbyists as you say and I love my lobbyists wherever you are we need them to help give information but the strategic advisors to what a federal bill looks like for an economy as large and complex and dependent on international structure we have to have the network in there. And so one of the things that we are doing in privacy is really looking at what does a solid bill look like so at long last we can get a solid piece of federal legislation and Chuck is talking about it at Davos as was everyone else, which was amazing and now you're going to hear his voice very loudly ringing through the halls of DC >> So he's upping his game in leadership in DC >> Have you seen the size of Chuck Robbins? Game upped, privacy on! >> It's a great opportunity because we need leadership in technology in DC so-- >> To affect public policy, no doubt >> Absolutely. >> And globally too. It's not just DC and America but also globally. >> Yeah, we need to serve our customers. We win when they win. >> Final question, we got to get wrapped up here but I want to get you guys a chance to talk about what you guys announced here at the show what's going on get the plug in for what's going on Cisco Trust. What's happening? >> Do you want to plug first? >> Well, I think a few things we can add. So, in addition to releasing our benchmark study this week and talking about that with customers and with the public we've also announced a new version of our privacy data sheets. This was a big tool to enable salespeople and customers to see exactly how data is being used in all of our products and so the new innovation this week is we've released these very nice, color created like subway maps, you know? They make it easy for you to navigate around it just makes it easy for people to see exactly how data flows. So again, something up on our site at trust.cisco.com where people can go and get that information and sort of make it easy. We're pushing towards simplicity and transparency in everything we do from a privacy standpoint and this is really that trajectory of making it as easy as possible for anyone to see exactly how things go and I think that's the trajectory we're on that's where the legislation both where GDPR is heading and federal legislation as well to try to make this as easy as reading the nutrition label on the food item. To say what's actually here? Do I want to buy it? Do I want to eat it? And we want to make that that easy >> Trust, transparency accountability comes into play too because if you have those things you know who's accountable. >> It's terrifying. I challenge all of my competitors go to trust.cisco.com not just my customers, love you to be there too go and look at our data subway maps. You have to be radically transparent to say here's what you get customer here's what I get, Cisco, here's where my third party's. It's not as detailed as a long report but you can get the trajectory and have a real conversation. I hope everybody gets on board with this kind of simplification. >> Trust.cisco.com we're going to keep track of it. Great work you guys are doing. I think you guys are leading the industry, Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> This is not going to end, this conversation continues will continue globally. >> Excellent >> Thanks for coming on Michelle, appreciate it. Robert thanks for coming on. CUBE coverage here day three in Barcelona. We'll be back with more coverage after this break.