>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Confidential computing is a technology that aims to enhance data privacy and security, by providing encrypted computation on sensitive data and isolating data, and apps that are fenced off enclave during processing. The concept of, I got to start over. I fucked that up, I'm sorry. That's not right, what I said was not right. On Dave in five, four, three. Confidential computing is a technology that aims to enhance data privacy and security by providing encrypted computation on sensitive data, isolating data from apps and a fenced off enclave during processing. The concept of confidential computing is gaining popularity, especially in the cloud computing space, where sensitive data is often stored and of course processed. However, there are some who view confidential computing as an unnecessary technology in a marketing ploy by cloud providers aimed at calming customers who are cloud phobic. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we revisit the notion of confidential computing, and to do so, we'll invite two Google experts to the show. But before we get there, let's summarize briefly. There's not a ton of ETR data on the topic of confidential computing, I mean, it's a technology that's deeply embedded into silicon and computing architectures. But at the highest level, security remains the number one priority being addressed by IT decision makers in the coming year as shown here. And this data is pretty much across the board by industry, by region, by size of company. I mean we dug into it and the only slight deviation from the mean is in financial services. The second and third most cited priorities, cloud migration and analytics are noticeably closer to cybersecurity in financial services than in other sectors, likely because financial services has always been hyper security conscious, but security is still a clear number one priority in that sector. The idea behind confidential computing is to better address threat models for data in execution. Protecting data at rest and data in transit have long been a focus of security approaches, but more recently, silicon manufacturers have introduced architectures that separate data and applications from the host system, ARM, Intel, AMD, Nvidia and other suppliers are all on board, as are the big cloud players. Now, the argument against confidential computing is that it narrowly focuses on memory encryption and it doesn't solve the biggest problems in security. Multiple system images, updates, different services and the entire code flow aren't directly addressed by memory encryption. Rather to truly attack these problems, many believe that OSs need to be re-engineered with the attacker and hacker in mind. There are so many variables and at the end of the day, critics say the emphasis on confidential computing made by cloud providers is overstated and largely hype. This tweet from security researcher Rodrigo Bronco, sums up the sentiment of many skeptics. He says, "Confidential computing is mostly a marketing campaign from memory encryption. It's not driving the industry towards the hard open problems. It is selling an illusion." Okay. Nonetheless, encrypting data in use and fencing off key components of the system isn't a bad thing, especially if it comes with the package essentially for free. There has been a lack of standardization and interoperability between different confidential computing approaches. But the confidential computing consortium was established in 2019 ostensibly to accelerate the market and influence standards. Notably, AWS is not part of the consortium, likely because the politics of the consortium were probably a conundrum for AWS because the base technology defined by the consortium is seen as limiting by AWS. This is my guess, not AWS' words. But I think joining the consortium would validate a definition which AWS isn't aligned with. And two, it's got to lead with this Annapurna acquisition. It was way ahead with ARM integration, and so it's probably doesn't feel the need to validate its competitors. Anyway, one of the premier members of the confidential computing consortium is Google, along with many high profile names, including Aem, Intel, Meta, Red Hat, Microsoft, and others. And we're pleased to welcome two experts on confidential computing from Google to unpack the topic. Nelly Porter is Head of Product for GCP Confidential Computing and Encryption and Dr. Patricia Florissi is the Technical Director for the Office of the CTO at Google Cloud. Welcome Nelly and Patricia, great to have you. >> Great to be here. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> You're very welcome. Nelly, why don't you start and then Patricia, you can weigh in. Just tell the audience a little bit about each of your roles at Google Cloud. >> So I'll start, I'm owning a lot of interesting activities in Google and again, security or infrastructure securities that I usually own. And we are talking about encryption, end-to-end encryption, and confidential computing is a part of portfolio. Additional areas that I contribute to get with my team to Google and our customers is secure software supply chain because you need to trust your software. Is it operate in your confidential environment to have end-to-end security, about if you believe that your software and your environment doing what you expect, it's my role. >> Got it. Okay, Patricia? >> Well, I am a Technical Director in the Office of the CTO, OCTO for short in Google Cloud. And we are a global team, we include former CTOs like myself and senior technologies from large corporations, institutions and a lot of success for startups as well. And we have two main goals, first, we walk side by side with some of our largest, more strategic or most strategical customers and we help them solve complex engineering technical problems. And second, we advice Google and Google Cloud Engineering, product management on emerging trends and technologies to guide the trajectory of our business. We are unique group, I think, because we have created this collaborative culture with our customers. And within OCTO I spend a lot of time collaborating with customers in the industry at large on technologies that can address privacy, security, and sovereignty of data in general. >> Excellent. Thank you for that both of you. Let's get into it. So Nelly, what is confidential computing from Google's perspective? How do you define it? >> Confidential computing is a tool and one of the tools in our toolbox. And confidential computing is a way how we would help our customers to complete this very interesting end-to-end lifecycle of the data. And when customers bring in the data to cloud and want to protect it as they ingest it to the cloud, they protect it at rest when they store data in the cloud. But what was missing for many, many years is ability for us to continue protecting data and workloads of our customers when they run them. And again, because data is not brought to cloud to have huge graveyard, we need to ensure that this data is actually indexed. Again, there is some insights driven and drawn from this data. You have to process this data and confidential computing here to help. Now we have end-to-end protection of our customer's data when they bring the workloads and data to cloud thanks to confidential computing. >> Thank you for that. Okay, we're going to get into the architecture a bit, but before we do Patricia, why do you think this topic of confidential computing is such an important technology? Can you explain? Do you think it's transformative for customers and if so, why? >> Yeah, I would maybe like to use one thought, one way, one intuition behind why confidential computing matters because at the end of the day, it reduces more and more the customer's thrush boundaries and the attack surface. That's about reducing that periphery, the boundary in which the customer needs to mind about trust and safety. And in a way is a natural progression that you're using encryption to secure and protect data in the same way that we are encrypting data in transit and at rest. Now, we are also encrypting data while in the use. And among other beneficials, I would say one of the most transformative ones is that organizations will be able to collaborate with each other and retain the confidentiality of the data. And that is across industry, even though it's highly focused on, I wouldn't say highly focused but very beneficial for highly regulated industries, it applies to all of industries. And if you look at financing for example, where bankers are trying to detect fraud and specifically double finance where a customer is actually trying to get a finance on an asset, let's say a boat or a house, and then it goes to another bank and gets another finance on that asset. Now bankers would be able to collaborate and detect fraud while preserving confidentiality and privacy of the data. >> Interesting and I want to understand that a little bit more but I got to push you a little bit on this, Nellie if I can, because there's a narrative out there that says confidential computing is a marketing ploy I talked about this up front, by cloud providers that are just trying to placate people that are scared of the cloud. And I'm presuming you don't agree with that, but I'd like you to weigh in here. The argument is confidential computing is just memory encryption, it doesn't address many other problems. It is over hyped by cloud providers. What do you say to that line of thinking? >> I absolutely disagree as you can imagine Dave, with this statement. But the most importantly is we mixing a multiple concepts I guess, and exactly as Patricia said, we need to look at the end-to-end story, not again, is a mechanism. How confidential computing trying to execute and protect customer's data and why it's so critically important. Because what confidential computing was able to do, it's in addition to isolate our tenants in multi-tenant environments the cloud offering to offer additional stronger isolation, they called it cryptographic isolation. It's why customers will have more trust to customers and to other customers, the tenants running on the same host but also us because they don't need to worry about against rats and more malicious attempts to penetrate the environment. So what confidential computing is helping us to offer our customers stronger isolation between tenants in this multi-tenant environment, but also incredibly important, stronger isolation of our customers to tenants from us. We also writing code, we also software providers, we also make mistakes or have some zero days. Sometimes again us introduce, sometimes introduced by our adversaries. But what I'm trying to say by creating this cryptographic layer of isolation between us and our tenants and among those tenants, we really providing meaningful security to our customers and eliminate some of the worries that they have running on multi-tenant spaces or even collaborating together with very sensitive data knowing that this particular protection is available to them. >> Okay, thank you. Appreciate that. And I think malicious code is often a threat model missed in these narratives. You know, operator access. Yeah, maybe I trust my cloud's provider, but if I can fence off your access even better, I'll sleep better at night separating a code from the data. Everybody's ARM, Intel, AMD, Nvidia and others, they're all doing it. I wonder if Nell, if we could stay with you and bring up the slide on the architecture. What's architecturally different with confidential computing versus how operating systems and VMs have worked traditionally? We're showing a slide here with some VMs, maybe you could take us through that. >> Absolutely, and Dave, the whole idea for Google and now industry way of dealing with confidential computing is to ensure that three main property is actually preserved. Customers don't need to change the code. They can operate in those VMs exactly as they would with normal non-confidential VMs. But to give them this opportunity of lift and shift though, no changing the apps and performing and having very, very, very low latency and scale as any cloud can, some things that Google actually pioneer in confidential computing. I think we need to open and explain how this magic was actually done, and as I said, it's again the whole entire system have to change to be able to provide this magic. And I would start with we have this concept of root of trust and root of trust where we will ensure that this machine within the whole entire host has integrity guarantee, means nobody changing my code on the most low level of system, and we introduce this in 2017 called Titan. So our specific ASIC, specific inch by inch system on every single motherboard that we have that ensures that your low level former, your actually system code, your kernel, the most powerful system is actually proper configured and not changed, not tempered. We do it for everybody, confidential computing included, but for confidential computing is what we have to change, we bring in AMD or future silicon vendors and we have to trust their former, their way to deal with our confidential environments. And that's why we have obligation to validate intelligent not only our software and our former but also former and software of our vendors, silicon vendors. So we actually, when we booting this machine as you can see, we validate that integrity of all of this system is in place. It means nobody touching, nobody changing, nobody modifying it. But then we have this concept of AMD Secure Processor, it's special ASIC best specific things that generate a key for every single VM that our customers will run or every single node in Kubernetes or every single worker thread in our Hadoop spark capability. We offer all of that and those keys are not available to us. It's the best case ever in encryption space because when we are talking about encryption, the first question that I'm receiving all the time, "Where's the key? Who will have access to the key?" because if you have access to the key then it doesn't matter if you encrypted or not. So, but the case in confidential computing why it's so revolutionary technology, us cloud providers who don't have access to the keys, they're sitting in the hardware and they fed to memory controller. And it means when hypervisors that also know about this wonderful things saying I need to get access to the memories, that this particular VM I'm trying to get access to. They do not decrypt the data, they don't have access to the key because those keys are random, ephemeral and per VM, but most importantly in hardware not exportable. And it means now you will be able to have this very interesting world that customers or cloud providers will not be able to get access to your memory. And what we do, again as you can see, our customers don't need to change their applications. Their VMs are running exactly as it should run. And what you've running in VM, you actually see your memory clear, it's not encrypted. But God forbid is trying somebody to do it outside of my confidential box, no, no, no, no, no, you will now be able to do it. Now, you'll see cyber test and it's exactly what combination of these multiple hardware pieces and software pieces have to do. So OS is also modified and OS is modified such way to provide integrity. It means even OS that you're running in your VM box is not modifiable and you as customer can verify. But the most interesting thing I guess how to ensure the super performance of this environment because you can imagine Dave, that's increasing and it's additional performance, additional time, additional latency. So we're able to mitigate all of that by providing incredibly interesting capability in the OS itself. So our customers will get no changes needed, fantastic performance and scales as they would expect from cloud providers like Google. >> Okay, thank you. Excellent, appreciate that explanation. So you know again, the narrative on this is, well, you've already given me guarantees as a cloud provider that you don't have access to my data, but this gives another level of assurance, key management as they say is key. Now humans aren't managing the keys, the machines are managing them. So Patricia, my question to you is in addition to, let's go pre-confidential computing days, what are the sort of new guarantees that these hardware based technologies are going to provide to customers? >> So if I am a customer, I am saying I now have full guarantee of confidentiality and integrity of the data and of the code. So if you look at code and data confidentiality, the customer cares and they want to know whether their systems are protected from outside or unauthorized access, and that we covered with Nelly that it is. Confidential computing actually ensures that the applications and data antennas remain secret. The code is actually looking at the data, only the memory is decrypting the data with a key that is ephemeral, and per VM, and generated on demand. Then you have the second point where you have code and data integrity and now customers want to know whether their data was corrupted, tempered with or impacted by outside actors. And what confidential computing ensures is that application internals are not tempered with. So the application, the workload as we call it, that is processing the data is also has not been tempered and preserves integrity. I would also say that this is all verifiable, so you have attestation and this attestation actually generates a log trail and the log trail guarantees that provides a proof that it was preserved. And I think that the offers also a guarantee of what we call sealing, this idea that the secrets have been preserved and not tempered with, confidentiality and integrity of code and data. >> Got it. Okay, thank you. Nelly, you mentioned, I think I heard you say that the applications is transparent, you don't have to change the application, it just comes for free essentially. And we showed some various parts of the stack before, I'm curious as to what's affected, but really more importantly, what is specifically Google's value add? How do partners participate in this, the ecosystem or maybe said another way, how does Google ensure the compatibility of confidential computing with existing systems and applications? >> And a fantastic question by the way, and it's very difficult and definitely complicated world because to be able to provide these guarantees, actually a lot of work was done by community. Google is very much operate and open. So again our operating system, we working this operating system repository OS is OS vendors to ensure that all capabilities that we need is part of the kernels are part of the releases and it's available for customers to understand and even explore if they have fun to explore a lot of code. We have also modified together with our silicon vendors kernel, host kernel to support this capability and it means working this community to ensure that all of those pages are there. We also worked with every single silicon vendor as you've seen, and it's what I probably feel that Google contributed quite a bit in this world. We moved our industry, our community, our vendors to understand the value of easy to use confidential computing or removing barriers. And now I don't know if you noticed Intel is following the lead and also announcing a trusted domain extension, very similar architecture and no surprise, it's a lot of work done with our partners to convince work with them and make this capability available. The same with ARM this year, actually last year, ARM announced future design for confidential computing, it's called confidential computing architecture. And it's also influenced very heavily with similar ideas by Google and industry overall. So it's a lot of work in confidential computing consortiums that we are doing, for example, simply to mention, to ensure interop as you mentioned, between different confidential environments of cloud providers. They want to ensure that they can attest to each other because when you're communicating with different environments, you need to trust them. And if it's running on different cloud providers, you need to ensure that you can trust your receiver when you sharing your sensitive data workloads or secret with them. So we coming as a community and we have this at Station Sig, the community-based systems that we want to build, and influence, and work with ARM and every other cloud providers to ensure that they can interop. And it means it doesn't matter where confidential workloads will be hosted, but they can exchange the data in secure, verifiable and controlled by customers really. And to do it, we need to continue what we are doing, working open and contribute with our ideas and ideas of our partners to this role to become what we see confidential computing has to become, it has to become utility. It doesn't need to be so special, but it's what what we've wanted to become. >> Let's talk about, thank you for that explanation. Let's talk about data sovereignty because when you think about data sharing, you think about data sharing across the ecosystem in different regions and then of course data sovereignty comes up, typically public policy, lags, the technology industry and sometimes it's problematic. I know there's a lot of discussions about exceptions but Patricia, we have a graphic on data sovereignty. I'm interested in how confidential computing ensures that data sovereignty and privacy edicts are adhered to, even if they're out of alignment maybe with the pace of technology. One of the frequent examples is when you delete data, can you actually prove the data is deleted with a hundred percent certainty, you got to prove that and a lot of other issues. So looking at this slide, maybe you could take us through your thinking on data sovereignty. >> Perfect. So for us, data sovereignty is only one of the three pillars of digital sovereignty. And I don't want to give the impression that confidential computing addresses it at all, that's why we want to step back and say, hey, digital sovereignty includes data sovereignty where we are giving you full control and ownership of the location, encryption and access to your data. Operational sovereignty where the goal is to give our Google Cloud customers full visibility and control over the provider operations, right? So if there are any updates on hardware, software stack, any operations, there is full transparency, full visibility. And then the third pillar is around software sovereignty, where the customer wants to ensure that they can run their workloads without dependency on the provider's software. So they have sometimes is often referred as survivability that you can actually survive if you are untethered to the cloud and that you can use open source. Now, let's take a deep dive on data sovereignty, which by the way is one of my favorite topics. And we typically focus on saying, hey, we need to care about data residency. We care where the data resides because where the data is at rest or in processing need to typically abides to the jurisdiction, the regulations of the jurisdiction where the data resides. And others say, hey, let's focus on data protection, we want to ensure the confidentiality, and integrity, and availability of the data, which confidential computing is at the heart of that data protection. But it is yet another element that people typically don't talk about when talking about data sovereignty, which is the element of user control. And here Dave, is about what happens to the data when I give you access to my data, and this reminds me of security two decades ago, even a decade ago, where we started the security movement by putting firewall protections and logging accesses. But once you were in, you were able to do everything you wanted with the data. An insider had access to all the infrastructure, the data, and the code. And that's similar because with data sovereignty, we care about whether it resides, who is operating on the data, but the moment that the data is being processed, I need to trust that the processing of the data we abide by user's control, by the policies that I put in place of how my data is going to be used. And if you look at a lot of the regulation today and a lot of the initiatives around the International Data Space Association, IDSA and Gaia-X, there is a movement of saying the two parties, the provider of the data and the receiver of the data going to agree on a contract that describes what my data can be used for. The challenge is to ensure that once the data crosses boundaries, that the data will be used for the purposes that it was intended and specified in the contract. And if you actually bring together, and this is the exciting part, confidential computing together with policy enforcement. Now, the policy enforcement can guarantee that the data is only processed within the confines of a confidential computing environment, that the workload is in cryptographically verified that there is the workload that was meant to process the data and that the data will be only used when abiding to the confidentiality and integrity safety of the confidential computing environment. And that's why we believe confidential computing is one necessary and essential technology that will allow us to ensure data sovereignty, especially when it comes to user's control. >> Thank you for that. I mean it was a deep dive, I mean brief, but really detailed. So I appreciate that, especially the verification of the enforcement. Last question, I met you two because as part of my year-end prediction post, you guys sent in some predictions and I wasn't able to get to them in the predictions post, so I'm thrilled that you were able to make the time to come on the program. How widespread do you think the adoption of confidential computing will be in '23 and what's the maturity curve look like this decade in your opinion? Maybe each of you could give us a brief answer. >> So my prediction in five, seven years as I started, it will become utility, it will become TLS. As of freakin' 10 years ago, we couldn't believe that websites will have certificates and we will support encrypted traffic. Now we do, and it's become ubiquity. It's exactly where our confidential computing is heeding and heading, I don't know we deserve yet. It'll take a few years of maturity for us, but we'll do that. >> Thank you. And Patricia, what's your prediction? >> I would double that and say, hey, in the very near future, you will not be able to afford not having it. I believe as digital sovereignty becomes ever more top of mind with sovereign states and also for multinational organizations, and for organizations that want to collaborate with each other, confidential computing will become the norm, it will become the default, if I say mode of operation. I like to compare that today is inconceivable if we talk to the young technologists, it's inconceivable to think that at some point in history and I happen to be alive, that we had data at rest that was non-encrypted, data in transit that was not encrypted. And I think that we'll be inconceivable at some point in the near future that to have unencrypted data while we use. >> You know, and plus I think the beauty of the this industry is because there's so much competition, this essentially comes for free. I want to thank you both for spending some time on Breaking Analysis, there's so much more we could cover. I hope you'll come back to share the progress that you're making in this area and we can double click on some of these topics. Really appreciate your time. >> Anytime. >> Thank you so much, yeah. >> In summary, while confidential computing is being touted by the cloud players as a promising technology for enhancing data privacy and security, there are also those as we said, who remain skeptical. The truth probably lies somewhere in between and it will depend on the specific implementation and the use case as to how effective confidential computing will be. Look as with any new tech, it's important to carefully evaluate the potential benefits, the drawbacks, and make informed decisions based on the specific requirements in the situation and the constraints of each individual customer. But the bottom line is silicon manufacturers are working with cloud providers and other system companies to include confidential computing into their architectures. Competition in our view will moderate price hikes and at the end of the day, this is under-the-covers technology that essentially will come for free, so we'll take it. I want to thank our guests today, Nelly and Patricia from Google. And thanks to Alex Myerson who's on production and manages the podcast. Ken Schiffman as well out of our Boston studio. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social media and in our newsletters, and Rob Hoof is our editor-in-chief over at siliconangle.com, does some great editing for us. Thank you all. Remember all these episodes are available as podcasts. Wherever you listen, just search Breaking Analysis podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com where you can get all the news. If you want to get in touch, you can email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me at D Vellante, and you can also comment on my LinkedIn post. Definitely you want to check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. I know we didn't hit on a lot today, but there's some amazing data and it's always being updated, so check that out. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis. (subtle music)

>>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and E T R. This is breaking analysis with Dave Valante. >>Making technology predictions in 2022 was tricky business, especially if you were projecting the performance of markets or identifying I P O prospects and making binary forecast on data AI and the macro spending climate and other related topics in enterprise tech 2022, of course was characterized by a seesaw economy where central banks were restructuring their balance sheets. The war on Ukraine fueled inflation supply chains were a mess. And the unintended consequences of of forced march to digital and the acceleration still being sorted out. Hello and welcome to this week's weekly on Cube Insights powered by E T R. In this breaking analysis, we continue our annual tradition of transparently grading last year's enterprise tech predictions. And you may or may not agree with our self grading system, but look, we're gonna give you the data and you can draw your own conclusions and tell you what, tell us what you think. >>All right, let's get right to it. So our first prediction was tech spending increases by 8% in 2022. And as we exited 2021 CIOs, they were optimistic about their digital transformation plans. You know, they rushed to make changes to their business and were eager to sharpen their focus and continue to iterate on their digital business models and plug the holes that they, the, in the learnings that they had. And so we predicted that 8% rise in enterprise tech spending, which looked pretty good until Ukraine and the Fed decided that, you know, had to rush and make up for lost time. We kind of nailed the momentum in the energy sector, but we can't give ourselves too much credit for that layup. And as of October, Gartner had it spending growing at just over 5%. I think it was 5.1%. So we're gonna take a C plus on this one and, and move on. >>Our next prediction was basically kind of a slow ground ball. The second base, if I have to be honest, but we felt it was important to highlight that security would remain front and center as the number one priority for organizations in 2022. As is our tradition, you know, we try to up the degree of difficulty by specifically identifying companies that are gonna benefit from these trends. So we highlighted some possible I P O candidates, which of course didn't pan out. S NQ was on our radar. The company had just had to do another raise and they recently took a valuation hit and it was a down round. They raised 196 million. So good chunk of cash, but, but not the i p O that we had predicted Aqua Securities focus on containers and cloud native. That was a trendy call and we thought maybe an M SS P or multiple managed security service providers like Arctic Wolf would I p o, but no way that was happening in the crummy market. >>Nonetheless, we think these types of companies, they're still faring well as the talent shortage in security remains really acute, particularly in the sort of mid-size and small businesses that often don't have a sock Lacework laid off 20% of its workforce in 2022. And CO C e o Dave Hatfield left the company. So that I p o didn't, didn't happen. It was probably too early for Lacework. Anyway, meanwhile you got Netscope, which we've cited as strong in the E T R data as particularly in the emerging technology survey. And then, you know, I lumia holding its own, you know, we never liked that 7 billion price tag that Okta paid for auth zero, but we loved the TAM expansion strategy to target developers beyond sort of Okta's enterprise strength. But we gotta take some points off of the failure thus far of, of Okta to really nail the integration and the go to market model with azero and build, you know, bring that into the, the, the core Okta. >>So the focus on endpoint security that was a winner in 2022 is CrowdStrike led that charge with others holding their own, not the least of which was Palo Alto Networks as it continued to expand beyond its core network security and firewall business, you know, through acquisition. So overall we're gonna give ourselves an A minus for this relatively easy call, but again, we had some specifics associated with it to make it a little tougher. And of course we're watching ve very closely this this coming year in 2023. The vendor consolidation trend. You know, according to a recent Palo Alto network survey with 1300 SecOps pros on average organizations have more than 30 tools to manage security tools. So this is a logical way to optimize cost consolidating vendors and consolidating redundant vendors. The E T R data shows that's clearly a trend that's on the upswing. >>Now moving on, a big theme of 2020 and 2021 of course was remote work and hybrid work and new ways to work and return to work. So we predicted in 2022 that hybrid work models would become the dominant protocol, which clearly is the case. We predicted that about 33% of the workforce would come back to the office in 2022 in September. The E T R data showed that figure was at 29%, but organizations expected that 32% would be in the office, you know, pretty much full-time by year end. That hasn't quite happened, but we were pretty close with the projection, so we're gonna take an A minus on this one. Now, supply chain disruption was another big theme that we felt would carry through 2022. And sure that sounds like another easy one, but as is our tradition, again we try to put some binary metrics around our predictions to put some meat in the bone, so to speak, and and allow us than you to say, okay, did it come true or not? >>So we had some data that we presented last year and supply chain issues impacting hardware spend. We said at the time, you can see this on the left hand side of this chart, the PC laptop demand would remain above pre covid levels, which would reverse a decade of year on year declines, which I think started in around 2011, 2012. Now, while demand is down this year pretty substantially relative to 2021, I D C has worldwide unit shipments for PCs at just over 300 million for 22. If you go back to 2019 and you're looking at around let's say 260 million units shipped globally, you know, roughly, so, you know, pretty good call there. Definitely much higher than pre covid levels. But so what you might be asking why the B, well, we projected that 30% of customers would replace security appliances with cloud-based services and that more than a third would replace their internal data center server and storage hardware with cloud services like 30 and 40% respectively. >>And we don't have explicit survey data on exactly these metrics, but anecdotally we see this happening in earnest. And we do have some data that we're showing here on cloud adoption from ET R'S October survey where the midpoint of workloads running in the cloud is around 34% and forecast, as you can see, to grow steadily over the next three years. So this, well look, this is not, we understand it's not a one-to-one correlation with our prediction, but it's a pretty good bet that we were right, but we gotta take some points off, we think for the lack of unequivocal proof. Cause again, we always strive to make our predictions in ways that can be measured as accurate or not. Is it binary? Did it happen, did it not? Kind of like an O K R and you know, we strive to provide data as proof and in this case it's a bit fuzzy. >>We have to admit that although we're pretty comfortable that the prediction was accurate. And look, when you make an hard forecast, sometimes you gotta pay the price. All right, next, we said in 2022 that the big four cloud players would generate 167 billion in IS and PaaS revenue combining for 38% market growth. And our current forecasts are shown here with a comparison to our January, 2022 figures. So coming into this year now where we are today, so currently we expect 162 billion in total revenue and a 33% growth rate. Still very healthy, but not on our mark. So we think a w s is gonna miss our predictions by about a billion dollars, not, you know, not bad for an 80 billion company. So they're not gonna hit that expectation though of getting really close to a hundred billion run rate. We thought they'd exit the year, you know, closer to, you know, 25 billion a quarter and we don't think they're gonna get there. >>Look, we pretty much nailed Azure even though our prediction W was was correct about g Google Cloud platform surpassing Alibaba, Alibaba, we way overestimated the performance of both of those companies. So we're gonna give ourselves a C plus here and we think, yeah, you might think it's a little bit harsh, we could argue for a B minus to the professor, but the misses on GCP and Alibaba we think warrant a a self penalty on this one. All right, let's move on to our prediction about Supercloud. We said it becomes a thing in 2022 and we think by many accounts it has, despite the naysayers, we're seeing clear evidence that the concept of a layer of value add that sits above and across clouds is taking shape. And on this slide we showed just some of the pickup in the industry. I mean one of the most interesting is CloudFlare, the biggest supercloud antagonist. >>Charles Fitzgerald even predicted that no vendor would ever use the term in their marketing. And that would be proof if that happened that Supercloud was a thing and he said it would never happen. Well CloudFlare has, and they launched their version of Supercloud at their developer week. Chris Miller of the register put out a Supercloud block diagram, something else that Charles Fitzgerald was, it was was pushing us for, which is rightly so, it was a good call on his part. And Chris Miller actually came up with one that's pretty good at David Linthicum also has produced a a a A block diagram, kind of similar, David uses the term metacloud and he uses the term supercloud kind of interchangeably to describe that trend. And so we we're aligned on that front. Brian Gracely has covered the concept on the popular cloud podcast. Berkeley launched the Sky computing initiative. >>You read through that white paper and many of the concepts highlighted in the Supercloud 3.0 community developed definition align with that. Walmart launched a platform with many of the supercloud salient attributes. So did Goldman Sachs, so did Capital One, so did nasdaq. So you know, sorry you can hate the term, but very clearly the evidence is gathering for the super cloud storm. We're gonna take an a plus on this one. Sorry, haters. Alright, let's talk about data mesh in our 21 predictions posts. We said that in the 2020s, 75% of large organizations are gonna re-architect their big data platforms. So kind of a decade long prediction. We don't like to do that always, but sometimes it's warranted. And because it was a longer term prediction, we, at the time in, in coming into 22 when we were evaluating our 21 predictions, we took a grade of incomplete because the sort of decade long or majority of the decade better part of the decade prediction. >>So last year, earlier this year, we said our number seven prediction was data mesh gains momentum in 22. But it's largely confined and narrow data problems with limited scope as you can see here with some of the key bullets. So there's a lot of discussion in the data community about data mesh and while there are an increasing number of examples, JP Morgan Chase, Intuit, H S P C, HelloFresh, and others that are completely rearchitecting parts of their data platform completely rearchitecting entire data platforms is non-trivial. There are organizational challenges, there're data, data ownership, debates, technical considerations, and in particular two of the four fundamental data mesh principles that the, the need for a self-service infrastructure and federated computational governance are challenging. Look, democratizing data and facilitating data sharing creates conflicts with regulatory requirements around data privacy. As such many organizations are being really selective with their data mesh implementations and hence our prediction of narrowing the scope of data mesh initiatives. >>I think that was right on J P M C is a good example of this, where you got a single group within a, within a division narrowly implementing the data mesh architecture. They're using a w s, they're using data lakes, they're using Amazon Glue, creating a catalog and a variety of other techniques to meet their objectives. They kind of automating data quality and it was pretty well thought out and interesting approach and I think it's gonna be made easier by some of the announcements that Amazon made at the recent, you know, reinvent, particularly trying to eliminate ET t l, better connections between Aurora and Redshift and, and, and better data sharing the data clean room. So a lot of that is gonna help. Of course, snowflake has been on this for a while now. Many other companies are facing, you know, limitations as we said here and this slide with their Hadoop data platforms. They need to do new, some new thinking around that to scale. HelloFresh is a really good example of this. Look, the bottom line is that organizations want to get more value from data and having a centralized, highly specialized teams that own the data problem, it's been a barrier and a blocker to success. The data mesh starts with organizational considerations as described in great detail by Ash Nair of Warner Brothers. So take a listen to this clip. >>Yeah, so when people think of Warner Brothers, you always think of like the movie studio, but we're more than that, right? I mean, you think of H B O, you think of t n t, you think of C N N. We have 30 plus brands in our portfolio and each have their own needs. So the, the idea of a data mesh really helps us because what we can do is we can federate access across the company so that, you know, CNN can work at their own pace. You know, when there's election season, they can ingest their own data and they don't have to, you know, bump up against, as an example, HBO if Game of Thrones is going on. >>So it's often the case that data mesh is in the eyes of the implementer. And while a company's implementation may not strictly adhere to Jamma Dani's vision of data mesh, and that's okay, the goal is to use data more effectively. And despite Gartner's attempts to deposition data mesh in favor of the somewhat confusing or frankly far more confusing data fabric concept that they stole from NetApp data mesh is taking hold in organizations globally today. So we're gonna take a B on this one. The prediction is shaping up the way we envision, but as we previously reported, it's gonna take some time. The better part of a decade in our view, new standards have to emerge to make this vision become reality and they'll come in the form of both open and de facto approaches. Okay, our eighth prediction last year focused on the face off between Snowflake and Databricks. >>And we realized this popular topic, and maybe one that's getting a little overplayed, but these are two companies that initially, you know, looked like they were shaping up as partners and they, by the way, they are still partnering in the field. But you go back a couple years ago, the idea of using an AW w s infrastructure, Databricks machine intelligence and applying that on top of Snowflake as a facile data warehouse, still very viable. But both of these companies, they have much larger ambitions. They got big total available markets to chase and large valuations that they have to justify. So what's happening is, as we've previously reported, each of these companies is moving toward the other firm's core domain and they're building out an ecosystem that'll be critical for their future. So as part of that effort, we said each is gonna become aggressive investors and maybe start doing some m and a and they have in various companies. >>And on this chart that we produced last year, we studied some of the companies that were targets and we've added some recent investments of both Snowflake and Databricks. As you can see, they've both, for example, invested in elation snowflake's, put money into Lacework, the Secur security firm, ThoughtSpot, which is trying to democratize data with ai. Collibra is a governance platform and you can see Databricks investments in data transformation with D B T labs, Matillion doing simplified business intelligence hunters. So that's, you know, they're security investment and so forth. So other than our thought that we'd see Databricks I p o last year, this prediction been pretty spot on. So we'll give ourselves an A on that one. Now observability has been a hot topic and we've been covering it for a while with our friends at E T R, particularly Eric Bradley. Our number nine prediction last year was basically that if you're not cloud native and observability, you are gonna be in big trouble. >>So everything guys gotta go cloud native. And that's clearly been the case. Splunk, the big player in the space has been transitioning to the cloud, hasn't always been pretty, as we reported, Datadog real momentum, the elk stack, that's open source model. You got new entrants that we've cited before, like observe, honeycomb, chaos search and others that we've, we've reported on, they're all born in the cloud. So we're gonna take another a on this one, admittedly, yeah, it's a re reasonably easy call, but you gotta have a few of those in the mix. Okay, our last prediction, our number 10 was around events. Something the cube knows a little bit about. We said that a new category of events would emerge as hybrid and that for the most part is happened. So that's gonna be the mainstay is what we said. That pure play virtual events are gonna give way to hi hybrid. >>And the narrative is that virtual only events are, you know, they're good for quick hits, but lousy replacements for in-person events. And you know that said, organizations of all shapes and sizes, they learn how to create better virtual content and support remote audiences during the pandemic. So when we set at pure play is gonna give way to hybrid, we said we, we i we implied or specific or specified that the physical event that v i p experience is going defined. That overall experience and those v i p events would create a little fomo, fear of, of missing out in a virtual component would overlay that serves an audience 10 x the size of the physical. We saw that really two really good examples. Red Hat Summit in Boston, small event, couple thousand people served tens of thousands, you know, online. Second was Google Cloud next v i p event in, in New York City. >>Everything else was, was, was, was virtual. You know, even examples of our prediction of metaverse like immersion have popped up and, and and, and you know, other companies are doing roadshow as we predicted like a lot of companies are doing it. You're seeing that as a major trend where organizations are going with their sales teams out into the regions and doing a little belly to belly action as opposed to the big giant event. That's a definitely a, a trend that we're seeing. So in reviewing this prediction, the grade we gave ourselves is, you know, maybe a bit unfair, it should be, you could argue for a higher grade, but the, but the organization still haven't figured it out. They have hybrid experiences but they generally do a really poor job of leveraging the afterglow and of event of an event. It still tends to be one and done, let's move on to the next event or the next city. >>Let the sales team pick up the pieces if they were paying attention. So because of that, we're only taking a B plus on this one. Okay, so that's the review of last year's predictions. You know, overall if you average out our grade on the 10 predictions that come out to a b plus, I dunno why we can't seem to get that elusive a, but we're gonna keep trying our friends at E T R and we are starting to look at the data for 2023 from the surveys and all the work that we've done on the cube and our, our analysis and we're gonna put together our predictions. We've had literally hundreds of inbounds from PR pros pitching us. We've got this huge thick folder that we've started to review with our yellow highlighter. And our plan is to review it this month, take a look at all the data, get some ideas from the inbounds and then the e t R of January surveys in the field. >>It's probably got a little over a thousand responses right now. You know, they'll get up to, you know, 1400 or so. And once we've digested all that, we're gonna go back and publish our predictions for 2023 sometime in January. So stay tuned for that. All right, we're gonna leave it there for today. You wanna thank Alex Myerson who's on production and he manages the podcast, Ken Schiffman as well out of our, our Boston studio. I gotta really heartfelt thank you to Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight and their team. They helped get the word out on social and in our newsletters. Rob Ho is our editor in chief over at Silicon Angle who does some great editing for us. Thank you all. Remember all these podcasts are available or all these episodes are available is podcasts. Wherever you listen, just all you do Search Breaking analysis podcast, really getting some great traction there. Appreciate you guys subscribing. I published each week on wikibon.com, silicon angle.com or you can email me directly at david dot valante silicon angle.com or dm me Dante, or you can comment on my LinkedIn post. And please check out ETR AI for the very best survey data in the enterprise tech business. Some awesome stuff in there. This is Dante for the Cube Insights powered by etr. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>> From "theCube" Studios in Palo Alto in Boston bringing you data-driven insights from "theCube" and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> As an independent pure play company, Palo Alto Networks has earned its status as the leader in security. You can measure this in a variety of ways. Revenue, market cap, execution, ethos, and most importantly, conversations with customers generally. In CISO specifically, who consistently affirm this position. The company's on track to double its revenues in fiscal year 23 relative to fiscal year 2020. Despite macro headwinds, which are likely to carry through next year, Palo Alto owes its position to a clarity of vision and strong execution on a TAM expansion strategy through acquisitions and integration into its cloud and SaaS offerings. Hello and welcome to this week's "Wikibon Cube Insights" powered by ETR and this breaking analysis and ahead of Palo Alto Ignite the company's user conference, we bring you the next chapter on top of the last week's cybersecurity update. We're going to dig into the ETR data on Palo Alto Networks as we promised and provide a glimpse of what we're going to look for at "Ignite" and posit what Palo Alto needs to do to stay on top of the hill. Now, the challenges for cybersecurity professionals. Dead simple to understand. Solving it, not so much. This is a taxonomic eye test, if you will, from Optiv. It's one of our favorite artifacts to make the point the cybersecurity landscape is a mosaic of stovepipes. Security professionals have to work with dozens of tools many legacy combined with shiny new toys to try and keep up with the relentless pace of innovation catalyzed by the incredibly capable well-funded and motivated adversaries. Cybersecurity is an anomalous market in that the leaders have low single digit market shares. Think about that. Cisco at one point held 60% market share in the networking business and it's still deep into the 40s. Oracle captures around 30% of database market revenue. EMC and storage at its peak had more than 30% of that market. Even Dell's PC market shares, you know, in the mid 20s or even over that from a revenue standpoint. So cybersecurity from a market share standpoint is even more fragmented perhaps than the software industry. Okay, you get the point. So despite its position as the number one player Palo Alto might have maybe three maybe 4% of the total market, depending on what you use as your denominator, but just a tiny slice. So how is it that we can sit here and declare Palo Alto as the undisputed leader? Well, we probably wouldn't go that far. They probably have quite a bit of competition. But this CISO from a recent ETR round table discussion with our friend Eric Bradley, summed up Palo Alto's allure. We thought pretty well. The question was why Palo Alto Networks? Here's the answer. Because of its completeness as a platform, its ability to integrate with its own products or they acquire, integrate then rebrand them as their own. We've looked at other vendors we just didn't think they were as mature and we already had implemented some of the Palo Alto tools like the firewalls and stuff and we thought why not go holistically with the vendor a single throat to choke, if you will, if stuff goes wrong. And I think that was probably the primary driver and familiarity with the tools and the resources that they provided. Now here's another stat from ETR's Eric Bradley. He gave us a glimpse of the January survey that's in the field now. The percent of IT buyers stating that they plan to consolidate redundant vendors, it went from 34% in the October survey and now stands at 44%. So we fo we feel this bodes well for consolidators like Palo Alto networks. And the same is true from Microsoft's kind of good enough approach. It should also be true for CrowdStrike although last quarter we saw softness reported on in their SMB market, whereas interestingly MongoDB actually saw consistent strength from its SMB and its self-serve. So that's something that we're watching very closely. Now, Palo Alto Networks has held up better than most of its peers in the stock market. So let's take a look at that real quick. This chart gives you a sense of how well. It's a one year comparison of Palo Alto with the bug ETF. That's the cyber basket that we like to compare often CrowdStrike, Zscaler, and Okta. Now remember Palo Alto, they didn't run up as much as CrowdStrike, ZS and Okta during the pandemic but you can see it's now down unquote only 9% for the year. Whereas the cyber basket ETF is off 27% roughly in line with the NASDAQ. We're not showing that CrowdStrike down 44%, Zscaler down 61% and Okta off a whopping 72% in the past 12 months. Now as we've indicated, Palo Alto is making a strong case for consolidating point tools and we think it will have a much harder time getting customers to switch off of big platforms like Cisco who's another leader in network security. But based on the fragmentation in the market there's plenty of room to grow in our view. We asked breaking analysis contributor Chip Simington for his take on the technicals of the stock and he said that despite Palo Alto's leadership position it doesn't seem to make much difference these days. It's all about interest rates. And even though this name has performed better than its peers, it looks like the stock wants to keep testing its 52 week lows, but he thinks Palo Alto got oversold during the last big selloff. And the fact that the company's free cash flow is so strong probably keeps it at the one 50 level or above maybe bouncing around there for a while. If it breaks through that under to the downside it's ne next test is at that low of around one 40 level. So thanks for that, Chip. Now having get that out of the way as we said on the previous chart Palo Alto has strong opinions, it's founder and CTO, Nir Zuk, is extremely clear on that point of view. So let's take a look at how Palo Alto got to where it is today and how we think you should think about his future. The company was founded around 18 years ago as a network security company focused on what they called NextGen firewalls. Now, what Palo Alto did was different. They didn't try to stuff a bunch of functionality inside of a hardware box. Rather they layered network security functions on top of its firewalls and delivered value as a service through software running at the time in its own cloud. So pretty obvious today, but forward thinking for the time and now they've moved to a more true cloud native platform and much more activity in the public cloud. In February, 2020, right before the pandemic we reported on the divergence in market values between Palo Alto and Fort Net and we cited some challenges that Palo Alto was happening having transitioning to a cloud native model. And at the time we said we were confident that Palo Alto would make it through the knot hole. And you could see from the previous chart that it has. So the company's architectural approach was to do the heavy lifting in the cloud. And this eliminates the need for customers to deploy sensors on prem or proxies on prem or sandboxes on prem sandboxes, you know for instance are vulnerable to overwhelming attacks. Think about it, if you're a sandbox is on prem you're not going to be updating that every day. No way. You're probably not going to updated even every week or every month. And if the capacity of your sandbox is let's say 20,000 files an hour you know a hacker's just going to turn up the volume, it'll overwhelm you. They'll send a hundred thousand emails attachments into your sandbox and they'll choke you out and then they'll have the run of the house while you're trying to recover. Now the cloud doesn't completely prevent that but what it does, it definitely increases the hacker's cost. So they're going to probably hit some easier targets and that's kind of the objective of security firms. You know, increase the denominator on the ROI. All right, the next thing that Palo Alto did is start acquiring aggressively, I think we counted 17 or 18 acquisitions to expand the TAM beyond network security into endpoint CASB, PaaS security, IaaS security, container security, serverless security, incident response, SD WAN, CICD pipeline security, attack service management, supply chain security. Just recently with the acquisition of Cider Security and Palo Alto by all accounts takes the time to integrate into its cloud and SaaS platform called Prisma. Unlike many acquisitive companies in the past EMC was a really good example where you ended up with a kind of a Franken portfolio. Now all this leads us to believe that Palo Alto wants to be the consolidator and is in a good position to do so. But beyond that, as multi-cloud becomes more prevalent and more of a strategy customers tell us they want a consistent experience across clouds. And is going to be the same by the way with IoT. So of the next wave here. Customers don't want another stove pipe. So we think Palo Alto is in a good position to build what we call the security super cloud that layer above the clouds that brings a common experience for devs and operational teams. So of course the obvious question is this, can Palo Alto networks continue on this path of acquire and integrate and still maintain best of breed status? Can it? Will it? Does it even have to? As Holger Mueller of Constellation Research and I talk about all the time integrated suites seem to always beat best of breed in the long run. We'll come back to that. Now, this next graphic that we're going to show you underscores this question about portfolio. Here's a picture and I don't expect you to digest it all but it's a screen grab of Palo Alto's product and solutions portfolios, network cloud, network security rather, cloud security, Sassy, CNAP, endpoint unit 42 which is their threat intelligence platform and every imaginable security service and solution for customers. Well, maybe not every, I'm sure there's more to come like supply chain with the recent Cider acquisition and maybe more IoT beyond ZingBox and earlier acquisition but we're sure there will be more in the future both organic and inorganic. Okay, let's bring in more of the ETR survey data. For those of you who don't know ETR, they are the number one enterprise data platform surveying thousands of end customers every quarter with additional drill down surveys and customer round tables just an awesome SaaS enabled platform. And here's a view that shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis in provision or presence within the ETR data set on the horizontal axis. You see that red dotted line at 40%. Anything at or over that indicates a highly elevated net score. And as you can see Palo Alto is right on that line just under. And I'll give you another glimpse it looks like Palo Alto despite the macro may even just edge up a bit in the next survey based on the glimpse that Eric gave us. Now those colored bars in the bottom right corner they show the breakdown of Palo Alto's net score and underscore the methodology that ETR uses. The lime green is new customer adoptions, that's 7%. The forest green at 38% represents the percent of customers that are spending 6% or more on Palo Alto solutions. The gray is at that 40 or 8% that's flat spending plus or minus 5%. The pinkish at 5% is spending is down on Palo Alto network products by 6% or worse. And the bright red at only 2% is churn or defections. Very low single digit numbers for Palo Alto, that's a real positive. What you do is you subtract the red from the green and you get a net score of 38% which is very good for a company of Palo Alto size. And we'll note this is based on just under 400 responses in the ETR survey that are Palo Alto customers out of around 1300 in the total survey. It's a really good representation of Palo Alto. And you can see the other leading companies like CrowdStrike, Okta, Zscaler, Forte, Cisco they loom large with similar aspirations. Well maybe not so much Okta. They don't necessarily rule want to rule the world. They want to rule identity and of course the ever ubiquitous Microsoft in the upper right. Now drilling deeper into the ETR data, let's look at how Palo Alto has progressed over the last three surveys in terms of market presence in the survey. This view of the data shows provision in the data going back to October, 2021, that's the gray bars. The blue is July 22 and the yellow is the latest survey from October, 2022. Remember, the January survey is currently in the field. Now the leftmost set of data there show size a company. The middle set of data shows the industry for a select number of industries in the right most shows, geographic region. Notice anything, yes, Palo Alto up across the board relative to both this past summer and last fall. So that's pretty impressive. Palo Alto network CEO, Nikesh Aurora, stressed on the last earnings call that the company is seeing somewhat elongated deal approvals and sometimes splitting up size of deals. He's stressed that certain industries like energy, government and financial services continue to spend. But we would expect even a pullback there as companies get more conservative. But the point is that Nikesh talked about how they're hiring more sales pros to work the pipeline because they understand that they have to work harder to pull deals forward 'cause they got to get more approvals and they got to increase the volume that's coming through the pipeline to account for the possibility that certain companies are going to split up the deals, you know, large deals they want to split into to smaller bite size chunks. So they're really going hard after they go to market expansion to account for that. All right, so we're going to wrap by sharing what we expect and what we're going to probe for at Palo Alto Ignite next week, Lisa Martin and I will be hosting "theCube" and here's what we'll be looking for. First, it's a four day event at the MGM with the meat of the program on days two and three. That's day two was the big keynote. That's when we'll start our broadcasting, we're going for two days. Now our understanding is we've never done Palo Alto Ignite before but our understanding it's a pretty technically oriented crowd that's going to be eager to hear what CTO and founder Nir Zuk has to say. And as well CEO Nikesh Aurora and as in addition to longtime friend of "theCube" and current president, BJ Jenkins, he's going to be speaking. Wendy Whitmore runs Unit 42 and is going to be several other high profile Palo Alto execs, as well, Thomas Kurian from Google is a featured speaker. Lee Claridge, who is Palo Alto's, chief product officer we think is going to be giving the audience heavy doses of Prisma Cloud and Cortex enhancements. Now, Cortex, you might remember, came from an acquisition and does threat detection and attack surface management. And we're going to hear a lot about we think about security automation. So we'll be listening for how Cortex has been integrated and what kind of uptake that it's getting. We've done some, you know, modeling in from the ETR. Guys have done some modeling of cortex, you know looks like it's got a lot of upside and through the Palo Alto go to market machine, you know could really pick up momentum. That's something that we'll be probing for. Now, one of the other things that we'll be watching is pricing. We want to talk to customers about their spend optimization, their spending patterns, their vendor consolidation strategies. Look, Palo Alto is a premium offering. It charges for value. It's expensive. So we also want to understand what kind of switching costs are customers willing to absorb and how onerous they are and what's the business case look like? How are they thinking about that business case. We also want to understand and really probe on how will Palo Alto maintain best of breed as it continues to acquire and integrate to expand its TAM and appeal as that one-stop shop. You know, can it do that as we talked about before. And will it do that? There's also an interesting tension going on sort of changing subjects here in security. There's a guy named Edward Hellekey who's been in "theCube" before. He hasn't been in "theCube" in a while but he's a security pro who has educated us on the nuances of protecting data privacy, public policy, how it varies by region and how complicated it is relative to security. Because securities you technically you have to show a chain of custody that proves unequivocally, for example that data has been deleted or scrubbed or that metadata does. It doesn't include any residual private data that violates the laws, the local laws. And the tension is this, you need good data and lots of it to have good security, really the more the better. But government policy is often at odds in a major blocker to sharing data and it's getting more so. So we want to understand this tension and how companies like Palo Alto are dealing with it. Our customers testing public policy in courts we think not quite yet, our government's making exceptions and policies like GDPR that favor security over data privacy. What are the trade-offs there? And finally, one theme of this breaking analysis is what does Palo Alto have to do to stay on top? And we would sum it up with three words. Ecosystem, ecosystem, ecosystem. And we said this at CrowdStrike Falcon in September that the one concern we had was the pace of ecosystem development for CrowdStrike. Is collaboration possible with competitors? Is being adopted aggressively? Is Palo Alto being adopted aggressively by global system integrators? What's the uptake there? What about developers? Look, the hallmark of a cloud company which Palo Alto is a cloud security company is a thriving ecosystem that has entries into and exits from its platform. So we'll be looking at what that ecosystem looks like how vibrant and inclusive it is where the public clouds fit and whether Palo Alto Networks can really become the security super cloud. Okay, that's a wrap stop by next week. If you're in Vegas, say hello to "theCube" team. We have an unbelievable lineup on the program. Now if you're not there, check out our coverage on theCube.net. I want to thank Eric Bradley for sharing a glimpse on short notice of the upcoming survey from ETR and his thoughts. And as always, thanks to Chip Symington for his sharp comments. Want to thank Alex Morrison, who's on production and manages the podcast Ken Schiffman as well in our Boston studio, Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight they help get the word out on social and of course in our newsletters, Rob Hoof, is our editor in chief over at Silicon Angle who does some awesome editing, thank you to all. Remember all these episodes they're available as podcasts. Wherever you listen, all you got to do is search "Breaking Analysis" podcasts. I publish each week on wikibon.com and silicon angle.com where you can email me at david.valante@siliconangle.com or dm me at D Valante or comment on our LinkedIn post. And please do check out etr.ai. They've got the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Valante for "theCube" Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next week on "Ignite" or next time on "Breaking Analysis". (upbeat music)

>>Good evening, brilliant humans. My name is Savannah Peterson and very delighted to be streaming to you. Live from the Cube Studios here in Motor City, Michigan. I've got John Furrier on my left. John, this is our last interview of the day. Energy just seems to keep oozing. How >>You doing? Take two, Three days of coverage, the queue love segments. This one's great cuz we have a practitioner who's implementing all the hard core talks to be awesome. Can't wait to get into it. >>Yeah, I'm very excited for this one. If it's not very clear, we are a community focused community is a huge theme here at the show at Cape Con. And our next guests are actually a provider and a customer. Turning it over to you. Lisa and Jake, welcome to the show. >>Thank you so much for having us. >>It's great to be here. It is our pleasure. Lisa, you're with Cockroach. Just in case the audience isn't familiar, give us a quick little sound bite. >>We're a distributed sequel database. Highly scalable, reliable. The database you can't kill, right? We will survive the apocalypse. So very resilient. Our customers, mostly retail, FinTech game meet online gambling. They, they, they need that resiliency, they need that scalability. So the indestructible database is the elevator pitch >>And the success has been very well documented. Valuation obviously is a scorp guard, but huge customers. We were at the Escape 19. Just for the record, the first ever multi-cloud conference hasn't come back baby. Love it. It'll come back soon. >>Yeah, well we did a similar version of it just a month ago and I was, that was before Cockroach. I was a different company there talking a lot about multi-cloud. So, but I'm, I've been a car a couple of years now and I run community, I run developer relations. I'm still also a CNCF ambassador, so I lead community as well. I still run a really large user group in the San Francisco Bay area. So we've just >>Been in >>Community, take through the use case. Jake's story set us up. >>Well I would like Jake to take him through the use case and Cockroach is a part of it, but what they've built is amazing. And also Jake's history is amazing. So you can start Jake, >>Wherever you take >>Your Yeah, sure. I'm Jake, I'm CEO and co-founder of Offset. Oted is the commercial entity behind Spice Dvy and Spice Dvy is a permission service. Cool. So a permission service is something that lets developers and let's platform teams really unlock the full potential of their applications. So a lot of people get stuck on My R back isn't flexible enough. How do I do these fine grain things? How do I do these complex sharing workflows that my product manager thinks is so important? And so our service enables those platform teams and developers to do those kinds of things. >>What's your, what's your infrastructure? What's your setup look like? What, how are you guys looking like on the back end? >>Sure. Yeah. So we're obviously built on top of Kubernetes as well. One of the reasons that we're here. So we use Kubernetes, we use Kubernetes operators to orchestrate everything. And then we use, use Cockroach TV as our production data store, our production backend data store. >>So I'm curious, cause I love when these little matchmakers come together. You said you've now been presenting on a little bit of a road show, which is very exciting. Lisa, how are you and the team surfacing stories like Jakes, >>Well, I mean any, any place we can obviously all the social medias, all the blogs, How >>Are you finding it though? >>How, how did you Oh, like from our customers? Yeah, we have an open source version so people start to use us a long time before we even sometimes know about them. And then they'll come to us and they'll be like, I love Cockroach, and like, tell me about it. Like, tell me what you build and if it's interesting, you know, we'll we'll try to give it some light. And it's always interesting to me what people do with it because it's an interesting technology. I like what they've done with it. I mean the, the fact that it's globally distributed, right? That was like a really important thing to you. Totally. >>Yeah. We're also long term fans of Cockroach, so we actually all work together out of Workbench, which was a co-working space and investor in New York City. So yeah, we go way back. We knew the founders. I, I'm constantly saying like if I could have invested early in cockroach, that would've been the easiest check I could have ever signed. >>Yeah, that's awesome. And then we've been following that too and you guys are now using them, but folks that are out there looking to have the, the same challenges, what are the big challenges on selecting the database? I mean, as you know, the history of Cockroach and you're originating the story, folks out there might not know and they're also gonna choose a database. What's the, what's the big challenge that they can solve that that kind of comes together? What, what would you describe that? >>Sure. So we're, as I said, we're a permission service and per the data that you store in a permission service is incredibly sensitive. You need it to be around, right? You need it to be available. If the permission service goes down, almost everything else goes down because it's all calling into the permission service. Is this user allowed to do this? Are they allowed to do that? And if we can't answer those questions, then our customer is down, right? So when we're looking at a database, we're looking for reliability, we're looking for durability, disaster recovery, and then permission services are one of the only services that you usually don't shard geographically. So if you look at like AWS's iam, that's a global service, even though the individual things that they run are actually sharded by region. So we also needed a globally distributed database with all of those other properties. So that's what led us >>To, this is a huge topic. So man, we've been talking about all week the cloud is essentially distributed database at this point and it's distributed system. So distributed database is a hot topic, totally not really well reported. A lot of people talking about it, but how would you describe this distributed trend that's going on? What are the key reasons that they're driving it? What's making this more important than ever in your mind, in your opinion? >>I mean, for our use case, it was just a hard requirement, right? We had to be able to have this global service. But I think just for general use cases, a distributed database, distributed database has that like shared nothing architecture that allows you to kind of keep it running and horizontally scale it. And as your requirements and as your applications needs change, you can just keep adding on capacity and keep adding on reliability and availability. >>I'd love to get both of your opinion. You've been talking about the, the, the, the phases of customers, the advanced got Kubernetes going crazy distributed, super alpha geek. Then you got the, the people who are building now, then you got the lagers who are coming online. Where do you guys see the market now in terms of, I know the Alphas are all building all the great stuff and you guys had great success with all the top logos and they're all doing hardcore stuff. As the mainstream enterprise comes in, where's their psychology, what's on their mind? What's, you share any insight into your perspective on that? Because we're seeing a lot more of it folks becoming like real cloud players. >>Yeah, I feel like in mainstream enterprise hasn't been lagging as much as people think. You know, certainly there's been pockets in big enterprises that have been looking at this and as distributed sequel, it gives you that scalability that it's absolutely essential for big enterprises. But also it gives you the, the multi-region, you know, the, you have to be globally distributed. And for us, for enterprises, you know, you need your data near where the users are. I know this is hugely important to you as well. So you have to be able to have a multi-region functionality and that's one thing that distributed SQL lets you build and that what we built into our product. And I know that's one of the things you like too. >>Yeah, well we're a brand new product. I mean we only founded the company two years ago, but we're actually getting inbound interest from big enterprises because we solve the kinds of challenges that they have and whether, I mean, most of them already do have a cockroach footprint, but whether they did or didn't, once they need to bring in our product, they're going to be adopting cockroach transitively anyway. >>So, So you're built on top of Cockroach, right? And Spice dv, is that open source or? >>It >>Is, yep. Okay. And explain the role of open source and your business model. Can you take a minute to talk about the relevance of that? >>Yeah, open source is key. My background is, before this I was at Red Hat. Before that we were at CoreOS, so CoreOS acquisition and before that, >>One of the best acquisitions that ever happened for the value. That was a great, great team. Yeah, >>We, we, we had fun and before that we built Qua. So my co-founders and I, we built Quay, which is a, a first private docker registry. So CoreOS and, and all of those things are all open source or deeply open source. So it's just in our dna. We also see it as part of our go-to market motion. So if you are a database, a lot of people won't even consider what you're doing without being open source. Cuz they say, I don't want to take a, I don't want to, I don't want to end up in an Oracle situation >>Again. Yeah, Oracle meaning they go, you get you locked in, get you in a headlock, Increase prices. >>Yeah. Oh yeah, >>Can, can >>I got triggered. >>You need to talk about your PTSD there >>Or what. >>I mean we have 20,000 stars on GitHub because we've been open and transparent from the beginning. >>Yeah. And it >>Well, and both of your projects were started based on Google Papers, >>Right? >>That is true. Yep. And that's actually, so we're based off of the Google Zans of our paper. And as you know, Cockroach is based off of the Google Span paper and in the the Zanzibar paper, they have this globally distributed database that they're built on top of. And so when I said we're gonna go and we're gonna make a company around the Zabar paper, people would go, Well, what are you gonna do for Span? And I was like, Easy cockroach, they've got us covered. >>Yeah, I know the guys and my friends. Yeah. So the question is why didn't you get into the first round of Cockroach? She said don't answer that. >>The question he did answer though was one of those age old arguments in our community about pronunciation. We used to argue about Quay, I always called it Key of course. And the co-founder obviously knows how it's pronounced, you know, it's the et cd argument, it's the co cuddl versus the control versus coo, CTL Quay from the co-founder. That is end of argument. You heard it here first >>And we're keeping it going with Osted. So awesome. A lot of people will say Zeed or, you know, so we, we just like to have a little ambiguity >>In the, you gotta have some semantic arguments, arm wrestling here. I mean, it keeps, it keeps everyone entertained, especially on the over the weekend. What's, what's next? You got obviously Kubernetes in there. Can you explain the relationship between Kubernetes, how you're handling Spice dv? What, what does the Kubernetes piece fit in and where, where is that going to be going? >>Yeah, great question. Our flagship product right now is a dedicated, and in a dedicated, what we're doing is we're spinning up a single tenant Kubernetes cluster. We're installing all of our operator suite, and then we're installing the application and running it in a single tenant fashion for our customers in the same region, in the same data center where they're running their applications to minimize latency. Because of this, as an authorization service, latency gets passed on directly to the end user. So everybody's trying to squeeze the latency down as far as they can. And our strategy is to just run these single tenant stacks for people with the minimal latency that we can and give them a VPC dedicated link very similar to what Cockroach does in their dedicated >>Product. And the distributed architecture makes that possible because it's lighter way, it's not as heavy. Is that one of the reasons? >>Yep. And Kubernetes really gives us sort of like a, a level playing field where we can say, we're going going to take the provider, the cloud providers Kubernetes offering, normalize it, lay down our operators, and then use that as the base for delivering >>Our application. You know, Jake, you made me think of something I wanted to bring up with other guests, but now since you're here, you're an expert, I wanna bring that up, but talk about Super Cloud. We, we coined that term, but it's kind of multi-cloud, is that having workloads on multiple clouds is hard. I mean there are, they are, there are workloads on, on clouds, but the complexity of one clouds, let's take aws, they got availability zones, they got regions, you got now data issues in each one being global, not that easy on one cloud, nevermind all clouds. Can you share your thoughts on how you see that progression? Because when you start getting, as its distributed database, a lot of good things might come up that could fit into solving the complexity of global workloads. Could you share your thoughts on or scoping that problem space of, of geography? Yeah, because you mentioned latency, like that's huge. What are some of the other challenges that other people have with mobile? >>Yeah, absolutely. When you have a service like ours where the data is small, but very critical, you can get a vendor like Cockroach to step in and to fill that gap and to give you that globally distributed database that you can call into and retrieve the data. I think the trickier issues come up when you have larger data, you have huge binary blobs. So back when we were doing Quay, we wanted to be a global service as well, but we had, you know, terabytes, petabytes of data that we were like, how do we get this replicated everywhere and not go broke? Yeah. So I think those are kind of the interesting issues moving forward is what do you do with like those huge data lakes, the huge amount of data, but for the, the smaller bits, like the things that we can keep in a relational database. Yeah, we're, we're happy that that's quickly becoming a solved >>Problem. And by the way, that that data problem also is compounded when the architecture goes to the edge. >>Totally. >>I mean this is a big issue. >>Exactly. Yeah. Edge is something that we're thinking a lot about too. Yeah, we're lucky that right now the applications that are consuming us are in a data center already. But as they start to move to the edge, we're going to have to move to the edge with them. And it's a story that we're gonna have to figure out. >>All right, so you're a customer cockroach, what's the testimonial if I put you on the spot, say, hey, what's it like working with these guys? You know, what, what's the, what's the, you know, the founders, so you know, you give a good description, little biased, but we'll, we'll we'll hold you on it. >>Yeah. Working with Cockroach has been great. We've had a couple things that we've run into along the way and we've gotten great support from our account managers. They've brought in the right technical expertise when we need it. Cuz what we're doing with Cockroach is not you, you couldn't do it on Postgres, right? So it's not just a simple rip and replace for us, we're using all of the features of Cockroach, right? We're doing as of system time queries, we're doing global replication. We're, you know, we're, we're consuming it all. And so we do need help from them sometimes and they've been great. Yeah. >>And that's natural as they grow their service. I mean the world's changing. >>Well I think one of the important points that you mentioned with multi-cloud, we want you to have the choice. You know, you can run it in in clouds, you can run it hybrid, you can run it OnPrem, you can do whatever you want and it's just, it's one application that you can run in these different data centers. And so really it's up to you how do you want to build your infrastructure? >>And one of the things we've been talking about, the super cloud concept that we've been issue getting a lot of contrary, but, but people are leaning into it is that it's the refactoring and taking advantage of the services. Like what you mentioned about cockroach. People are doing that now on cloud going the lift and shift market kind of had it time now it's like hey, I can start taking advantage of these higher level services or capability of someone else's stack and refactoring it. So I think that's a dynamic that I'm seeing a lot more of. And it sounds like it's working out great in this situation. >>I just came from a talk and I asked them, you know, what don't you wanna put in the cloud and what don't you wanna run in Kubernetes or on containers and good Yeah. And the customers that I was on stage with, one of the guys made a joke and he said I would put my dog in a container room. I could, he was like in the category, which is his right, which he is in the category of like, I'll put everything in containers and these are, you know, including like mis critical apps, heritage apps, since they don't wanna see legacy anymore. Heritage apps, these are huge enterprises and they wanna put everything in the cloud. Everything >>You so want your dog that gets stuck on the airplane when it's on the tarmac. >>Oh >>God, that's, she was the, don't take that analogy. Literally don't think about that. Well that's, >>That's let's not containerize. >>There's always supply chain concern. >>It. So I mean going macro and especially given where we are cncf, it's all about open source. Do y'all think that open source builds a better future? >>Yeah and a better past. I mean this is, so much of this software is founded on open source. I, we wouldn't be here really. I've been in open source community for many, many years so I wouldn't say I'm biased. I would say this is how we build software. I came from like in a high school we're all like, oh let's build a really cool application. Oh you know what? I built this cuz I needed it, but maybe somebody else needs it too. And you put it out there and that is the ethos of Silicon Valley, right? That's where we grew up. So I've always had that mindset, you know, and social coding and why I have three people, right? Working on the same thing when one person you could share it's so inefficient. All of that. Yeah. So I think it's great that people work on what they're really good at. You know, we all, now you need some standardization, you need some kind of control around this whole thing. Sometimes some foundations to, you know, herd the cats. Yeah. But it's, it's great. Which is why I'm a c CF ambassador and I spend a lot of time, you know, in my free time talking about open source. Yeah, yeah. >>It's clear how passionate you are about it. Jake, >>This is my second company that we founded now and I don't think either of them could have existed without the base of open source, right? Like when you look at I have this cool idea for an app or a company and I want to go try it out, the last thing I want to do is go and negotiate with a vendor to get like the core data component. Yeah. To even be able to get to the >>Prototypes. NK too, by the way. Yeah. >>Hey >>Nk >>Or hire, you know, a bunch of PhDs to go and build that core component for me. So yeah, I mean nobody can argue that >>It truly is, I gotta say a best time if you're a developer right now, it's awesome to be a developer right now. It's only gonna get better. As we were riff from the last session about productivity, we believe that if you follow the digital transformation to its conclusion, developers and it aren't a department serving the business, they are the business. And that means they're running the show, which means that now their entire workflow is gonna change. It's gonna be have to be leveraging services partnering. So yeah, open source just fills that. So the more code coming up, it's just no doubt in our mind that that's go, that's happening and will accelerate. So yeah, >>You know, no one company is gonna be able to compete with a community. 50,000 users contributing versus you riding it yourself in your garage with >>Your dogs. Well it's people driven too. It's humans not container. It's humans working together. And here you'll see, I won't say horse training, that's a bad term, but like as projects start to get traction, hey, why don't we come together as, as the world starts to settle and the projects have traction, you start to see visibility into use cases, functionality. Some projects might not be, they have to kind of see more kind >>Of, not every feature is gonna be development. Oh. So I mean, you know, this is why you connect with truly brilliant people who can architect and distribute sequel database. Like who thought of that? It's amazing. It's as, as our friend >>You say, Well let me ask you a question before we wrap up, both by time, what is the secret of Kubernetes success? What made Kubernetes specifically successful? Was it timing? Was it the, the unambitious nature of it, the unification of it? Was it, what was the reason why is Kubernetes successful, right? And why nothing else? >>Well, you know what I'm gonna say? So I'm gonna let Dave >>First don't Jake, you go first. >>Oh boy. If we look at what was happening when Kubernetes first came out, it was, Mesosphere was kind of like the, the big player in the space. I think Kubernetes really, it had the backing from the right companies. It had the, you know, it had the credibility, it was sort of loosely based on Borg, but with the story of like, we've fixed everything that was broken in Borg. Yeah. And it's better now. Yeah. So I think it was just kind and, and obviously people were looking for a solution to this problem as they were going through their containerization journey. And I, yeah, I think it was just right >>Place, the timing consensus of hey, if we just let this happen, something good might come together for everybody. That's the way I felt. I >>Think it was right place, right time, right solution. And then it just kind of exploded when we were at Cores. Alex Povi, our ceo, he heard about Kubernetes and he was like, you know, we, we had a thing called Fleet D or we had a tool called Fleet. And he's like, Nope, we're all in on Kubernetes now. And that was an amazing Yeah, >>I remember that interview. >>I, amazing decision. >>Yeah, >>It's clear we can feel the shift. It's something that's come up a lot this week is is the commitment. Everybody's all in. People are ready for their transformation and Kubernetes is definitely gonna be the orchestrator that we're >>Leveraging. Yeah. And it's an amazing community. But it was, we got lucky that the, the foundational technology, I mean, you know, coming out of Google based on Go conferences, based on Go, it's no to coincidence that this sort of nature of, you know, pods horizontally, scalable, it's all fits together. I does make sense. Yeah. I mean, no offense to Python and some of the other technologies that were built in other languages, but Go is an awesome language. It's so, so innovative. Innovative things you could do with it. >>Awesome. Oh definitely. Jake, I'm very curious since we learned on the way and you are a Detroit native? >>I am. Yep. I grew up in the in Warren, which is just a suburb right outside of Detroit. >>So what does it mean to you as a Michigan born bloke to be here, see your entire community invade? >>It is, I grew up coming to the Detroit Auto Show in this very room >>That brought me to Detroit the first time. Love n a I a s. Been there with our friends at Ford just behind us. >>And it's just so interesting to me to see the accumulation, the accumulation of tech coming to Detroit cuz it's really not something that historically has been a huge presence. And I just love it. I love to see the activity out on the streets. I love to see all the restaurants and coffee shops full of people. Just, I might tear up. >>Well, I was wondering if it would give you a little bit of that hometown pride and also the joy of bringing your community together. I mean, this is merging your two probably most core communities. Yeah, >>Yeah. Your >>Youth and your, and your career. It doesn't get more personal than that really. Right. >>It's just been, it's been really exciting to see the energy. >>Well thanks for going on the queue. Thanks for sharing. Appreciate it. Thanks >>For having us. Yeah, thank you both so much. Lisa, you were a joy of ball of energy right when you walked up. Jake, what a compelling story. Really appreciate you sharing it with us. John, thanks for the banter and the fabulous questions. I'm >>Glad I could help out. >>Yeah, you do. A lot more than help out sweetheart. And to all of you watching the Cube today, thank you so much for joining us live from Detroit, the Cube Studios. My name is Savannah Peterson and we'll see you for our event wrap up next.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Like a marathon runner pumped up on adrenaline, UiPath sprinted to the lead in what is surely going to be a long journey toward enabling the modern automated enterprise. Now, in doing so the company has established itself as a leader in enterprise automation while at the same time, it got out over its skis on critical execution items and it disappointed investors along the way. In our view, the company has plenty of upside potential, but will have to slog through its current challenges, including restructuring its go-to market, prioritizing investments, balancing growth with profitability and dealing with a very difficult macro environment. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube insights powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis and ahead of Forward 5, UiPath's big customer event, we once again dig into RPA and automation leader, UiPath, to share our most current data and view of the company's prospects relative to the competition and the market overall. Now, since the pandemic, four sectors have consistently outperformed in the overall spending landscape in the ETR dataset, cloud, containers, machine learning/AI, and robotic process automation. For the first time in a long time ML and AI and RPA have dropped below the elevated 40% line shown in this ETR graph with the red dotted line. The data here plots the net score or spending momentum for each sector with we put in video conferencing, we added it in simply to provide height to the vertical access. Now, you see those squiggly lines, they show the pattern for ML/AI and RPA, and they demonstrate the downward trajectory over time with only the most current period dropping below the 40% net score mark. While this is not surprising, it underscores one component of the macro headwinds facing all companies generally and UiPath specifically, that is the discretionary nature of certain technology investments. This has been a topic of conversation on theCUBE since the spring spanning data players like Mongo and Snowflake, the cloud, security, and other sectors. The point is ML/AI and RPA appear to be more discretionary than certain sectors, including cloud. Containers most likely benefit from the fact that much of the activity is spending on internal resources, staff like developers as much of the action in containers is free and open source. Now, security is not shown on this graphic, but as we've reported extensively in the last week at CrowdStrike's Falcon conference, security is somewhat less discretionary than other sectors. Now, as it relates to the big four that we've been highlighting since the pandemic hit, we're starting to see priorities shift from strategic investments like AI and automation to more tactical areas to keep the lights on. UiPath has not been immune to this downward pressure, but the company is still able to show some impressive metrics. Here's a snapshot chart from its investor deck. For the first time UiPath's ARR has surpassed $1 billion. The company now has more than 10,000 customers with a large number generating more than $100,000 in ARR. While not shown in this data, UiPath reported this month in its second quarter close that it had $191 million plus ARR customers, which is up 13% sequentially from its Q1. As well, the company's NRR is over 130%, which is very solid and underscores the low churn that we've previously reported for the company. But with that increased ARR comes slower growth. Here's some data we compiled that shows the dramatic growth in ARR, the blue bars, compared with the rapid deceleration and growth. That's the orange line on the right hand access there. For the first time UiPath's ARR growth dipped below 50% last quarter. Now, we've projected 34% and 25% respectively for the company's Q3 in Q4, which is slightly higher than the upper range of UiPath's CFO, Ashim Gupta's guidance from the last earnings call. That still puts UiPath exiting its fiscal year at a 25% ARR growth rate. While it's not unexpected that a company reaching $1 billion in ARR, that milestone, will begin to show lower, slower growth, net new ARR is well off its fiscal year '22 levels. The other perhaps more concerning factor is the company, despite strong 80% gross margins, remains unprofitable and free cash flow negative. New CEO, Rob Enslin, has emphasized the focus on profitability, and we'd like to see a consistent and more disciplined Rule of 40 or Rule of 45 to 50 type of performance going forward. As a result of this decelerating growth and lowered guidance stemming from significant macro challenges including currency fluctuations and weaker demand, especially in Europe and EP and inconsistent performance, the stock, as shown here, has been on a steady decline. What all growth stocks are facing, you know, challenges relative to inflation, rising interest rates, and looming recession, but as seen here, UiPath has significantly underperformed relative to the tech-heavy NASDAQ. UiPath has admitted to execution challenges, and it has brought in an expanded management team to facilitate its sales transition and desire to become a more strategic platform play versus a tactical point product. Now, adding to this challenge of foreign exchange issues, as we've previously reported unlike most high flying tech companies from Silicon Valley, UiPath has a much larger proportion of its business coming from locations outside of the United States, around 50% of its revenue, in fact. Because it prices in local currencies, when you convert back to appreciated dollars, there are less of them, and that weighs down on revenue. Now, we asked Breaking Analysis contributor, Chip Simonton, for his take on this stock, and he told us, "From a technical standpoint, there's really not much you can say, it just looks like a falling knife. It's trading at an all time low but that doesn't mean it can't go lower. New management with a good product is always a positive with a stock like this, but this is just a bad environment for UiPath and all growth stocks really, and," he added, "95% of money managers have never operated in this type of environment before. So that creates more uncertainty. There will be a bottom, but picking it in this high-inflation, high-interest rate world hasn't worked too well lately. There's really no floor to these stocks that don't have earnings, until you start to trade to cash levels." Well, okay, let's see, UiPath has $1.6 billion in cash in the balance sheet and no debt, so we're a long ways off from that target, the cash value with its current $7 billion valuation. You have to go back to April 2019 to UiPaths Series D to find a $7 billion valuation. So Simonton says, "The stock still could go lower." The valuation range for this stock has been quite remarkable from around $50 billion last May to $7 billion today. That's quite a swing. And the spending data from ETR sort of supports this story. This graphic here shows the net score or spending momentum granularity for UiPath. The lime green is new additions to the platform. The forest green is spending 6% or more. The gray is flat spending. The pink is spending down 6% or worse. And the bright red is churn. Subtract the red from the green and you get net score, which is that blue line. The yellow line is pervasiveness within the data set. Now, that yellow line is skewed somewhat because of Microsoft citations. There's a belief from some that competition from Microsoft is the reason for UiPath's troubles, but Microsoft is really delivering RPA for individuals and isn't an enterprise automation platform at least not today, but it's Microsoft, so you can't discount their presence in the market. And it probably is having some impact, but we think there are many other factors weighing on UiPath. Now, this is data through the July survey but taking a glimpse at the early October returns they're trending with the arrows, meaning less green more gray and red, which is going to lower UiPath's overall net score, which is consistent with the macro headwinds and the business performance that it's been seeing. Now, nonetheless, UiPath continues to get high marks from its customers, and relative to it's peers it maintains a leadership position. So this chart from ETR, shows net score or spending velocity in the vertical access, an overlap or presence in the dataset on the horizontal access. Microsoft continues to have a big presence, and as we mentioned, somewhat skews the data. UiPath has maintained its lead relative to automation anywhere on the horizontal access, and remains ahead of the legacy pack of business process and other RPA vendors. Solonis has popped up in the ETR data set recently as a process mining player and has a pretty high net score. It's a critical space UiPath has entered, via its acquisition of ProcessGold back in October 2019. Now, you can also see what we did is we added in the Gartner Magic Quadrant for robotic process automation. We didn't blow it up here but we circled the position of UiPath. You can see it's leading in both the vertical and the horizontal access, ahead of automation anywhere as well as Microsoft and others. Now, we're still not seeing the likes of SAP, Service Now, and Salesforce showing up in the ETR data, but these enterprise software vendors are in a reasonable position to capitalize on automation opportunities within their installed basis. This is why it's so important that UiPath transitions to an enterprise-wide horizontal play that can cut across multiple ERP, CRM, HCM, and service management platforms. While the big software companies can add automation to their respective stovepipes, and they're doing that, UiPath's opportunity is to bring automation to enable enterprises to build on top of and across these SaaS platforms that most companies are running. Now, on the chart, you see the red arrows slanting down. That signifies the expected trend from the upcoming October ETR survey, which is currently in the field and will run through early next month. Suffice it to say that there is downward spending pressure across the board, and we would expect most of these names, including UiPath, to dip below the 40% dotted line. Now, as it relates to the conversation about platform versus product, let's dig into that a bit more. Here's a graphic from UiPath's investor deck that underscores the move from product to platform. UiPath has expanded its platform from its initial on-prem point product to focus on automating tasks for individuals and back offices to a cloud-first platform approach. The company has added in technology from a number of acquisitions and added organically to those. These include, the previously mentioned, ProcessGold for process discovery, process documentation from the acquisition of StepShot, API automation via the acquisition of Cloud Elements, to its more recent acquisition of Re:infer, a natural language processing specialist. Now, we expect the platform to be a big focus of discussion at Forward 5 next week in Las Vegas. So let's close in on our expectations for the three-day event next week at the Venetian. UiPath's user conference has grown over the years and the Venetian should be by far be the biggest and most heavily attended in the company's history. We expect UiPath to really emphasize the role of automation, specifically in the context of digital transformation, and how UiPath has evolved, again, from point product to platform to support digital transformation. Expect to focus on platform maturity. When UiPath announced its platform intentions back in 2019, which was the last physical face-to-face customer event prior to COVID, it essentially was laying out a statement of direction. And over the past three years, it has matured the platform and taken it from vision to reality. You know, I said the last event, actually, the last event was 2021. Of course, theCUBE was there at the Bellagio in Las Vegas. But prior to that, 2019 is when they laid out that platform vision. Now, in a conjunction with this evolution, the company has evolved its partnerships, pairing up with the likes of Snowflake and the data cloud, CrowdStrike, to provide better security, and, of course, the big Global System Integrators, to help implement enterprise automation. And this is where we expect to hear a lot from customers. I've heard, there'll be over 100 speaking at the show about the outcomes and how they're digitally transforming. Now, I mentioned earlier that we haven't seen the big ERP and enterprise software companies show up yet in the ETR data, but believe me they're out there and they're selling automation and RPA and they're competing. So expect UiPath to position themselves and deposition those companies. Position UiPath as a layer above these bespoke platforms shown here on number four. With process discovery and task discovery, building automation across enterprise apps, and operationalizing process workflows as a horizontal play. And I'm sure there'll be some new graphics on this platform that we can share after the event that will emphasize this positioning. And finally, as we showed earlier in the platform discussion, we expect to hear a lot about the new platform capabilities and use cases, and not just RPA, but process mining, testing, testing automation, which is a new vector of growth for UiPath, document processing. And also, we expect UiPath to address its low code development capabilities to expand the number of people in the organization that can create automation capabilities and automations. Those domain experts is what we're talking about here that deeply understand the business but aren't software engineers. Enabling them is going to be really important, and we expect to hear more about that. And we expect this conference to set the tone for a new chapter in UiPath's history. The company's second in-person gathering, but the first one was last October. So really this is going to be sort of a build upon that, and many in-person events. For the first time this year, UiPath was one of the first to bring back its physical event, but we expect it to be bigger than what was at the Bellagio, and a lot of people were concerned about traveling. Although UiPath got a lot of customers there, but I think they're going to really up the game in terms of attendance this year. And really, that comparison is unfair because UiPath, again, it was sort of the middle of COVID last year. But anyway, we expect this new operations and go-to-market oriented focus from co-CEO, Rob Enslin, and new sales management, we're going to be, you know, hearing from them. And the so-called adult supervision has really been lacking at UiPath, historically. Daniel Dines will no doubt continue to have a big presence at the event and at the company. He's not a figurehead by any means. He's got a deep understanding of the product and the market and we'll be interviewing both Daniel and Rob Enslin on theCUBE to find out how they see the future. So tune in next week, or if you're in Las Vegas, definitely stop by theCUBE. If you're not go to thecube.net, you'll be able to watch all of our coverage. Okay, we're going to leave it there today. I want to thank Chip Simonton again for his input to today's episode. Thanks to Alex Morrison who's on production and manages our podcasts. Ken Schiffman, as well, from our Boston office, our Boston studio. Kristen Martin, and Cheryl Knight, they helped get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE that does some great editing. Thanks all. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis Podcasts. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com, and you could email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @dvellante. If you got anything interesting, I'll respond. If not, please keep trying, or comment on my LinkedIn post and please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time on Breaking Analysis. (gentle techno music)

>>Hi, everyone. Welcome to the cubes presentation of the AWS startup showcase the theme. This episode is data as code, and this is season two, episode two of the ongoing series covering exciting startups from the ecosystem in cloud and the future of data analytics. I'm your host, John furry. You're getting great featured panel here with AWS heroes, Lynn blankets, the CEO of Lindbergh Lega consulting, Peter Hanson's, founder of cloud Cedar and Alex debris, principal of debris advisory. Great to see all of you here and, uh, remotely and look forward to see you in person at the next re-invent or other event. >>Thanks for having us. >>So Lynn, you're doing a lot of work in healthcare, Peter you're in the middle of all the action as data as code Alex. You're in deep on the databases. We've got a good round up of, of topics here ranging from healthcare to getting under the hood on databases. So as we'll start with you, what are you working on right now? What trends do you see in the database space? >>Yeah, sure. So I do, uh, I do a lot of consulting work working with different people and, you know, often with, with dynamo DB or, or just general serverless technology type stuff. Um, if you want to talk about trends that I'm seeing right now, I would say trends you're seeing as a lot, just more serverless native databases or cloud native databases where you're seeing these cool databases come out that really take advantage of, uh, this new cloud environment, right? Where you have scalability, you have plasticity of the clouds. So you're not having, you know, instant space environments anymore. You're paying for capacity, you're paying for throughput. You're able to scale up and down. You're not managing individual instances. So a lot of cool stuff that we're seeing, you know, um, with this new generation of, of infrastructure and in particular database is taking advantage of this, this new cloud world >>And really lot deep into the database side in terms of like cloud native impact, diversity of database types, when to use certain databases that also a big deal. >>Yeah, absolutely. I like, I totally agree. I love seeing the different types of databases and, you know, AWS has this whole, uh, purpose-built database strategy. And I think that, that makes a lot of sense. Um, you know, I want to go too far with it. I would, I would more think about purpose-built categories and things like that, you know, specialize in an OLTB database within your, within your organization, whether that's dynamo DB or document DB or relational database Aurora or something like that. But then also choose some sort of analytics database, you know, if it's drew it or Redshift or Athena, and then, you know, if you have some specialized needs, you want to show some real time stuff to your users, check out rock site. If you want to, uh, you know, do some graph analytics, fraud detection, checkout tiger graph, a lot of cool stuff that we're seeing from the startup showcase here. >>Looking forward to unpacking that Lynn you've been in love now, a healthcare action with cloud ops, the pandemic pushes hard core on everybody. What are you working on? >>Yeah, it's all COVID data all the time. Uh, before the pandemic, I was supporting research groups for cancer genomics, which I still do, but, um, what's, uh, impactful is the explosive data volumes. You know, when you there's big data and there's genomic data, you know, I've worked with clients that have broken data centers, broken public cloud provider data centers because of the daily volume they're putting in. So there's this volume aspect. And then there's a collaboration, particularly around COVID research because of pandemic. And so you have this explosive volume, you have this, um, need for, uh, computational complexity. And that means cloud the challenge is it, you know, put the pedal to the metal. So you've got all these bioinformatics researchers that are used to single machine. Suddenly they have to deal with distributed compute. So it's a wild time to be in this space. >>What was the big change that you've seen with the, uh, the pandemic and in genomic cloud genomic specifically what's the big change has happened. >>The amount of data that is being put into the public cloud, um, previously people would have their data on their local, uh, capacity, and then they would publish their paper and the data may or may not become available for, uh, reproducing the research, uh, to accelerate for drug discovery and even variant identification. The data sets are being pushed to public cloud repositories, which is a whole new set of concerns. You have not only dealing with the volume and cost, but security, you know, there's federated security is non-trivial and not well understood by this domain. So there's so much work available here. >>Awesome. Peter, you're doing a lot with the data as a platform kind of view and platform engineering data as code is, is something that's being kicked around. What are you working on and how does platform engineering change as data becomes so much more prevalent in its value proposition? >>Yeah. So I'm the founder of cloud Cedar and, um, we sort of built this company out, this consultancy all around the challenges that a lot of companies have got with getting their data sorted, getting it organized, getting it ready for other use cases, such as analytics and machine learning, um, AI workloads and the like. So typically a platform engineering team will look after the organization of a company infrastructure, making sure that it's coherent across the company and a data platform, engineering teams doing something similar in that sense where they're, they're looking at making sure that, uh, data teams have a solid foundation to build upon, uh, that everything's quite predictable and what that enables is a faster velocity and the ability to use data as code as a way of specifying and onboarding data, building that, translating it, transforming it out into its specific domains and then on to data products. >>I have to ask you while you're here. Um, there's a big trend around data meshes right now. You're hearing, we've had a lot of stuff on the cube. Um, what are practical that people are using data mesh, first of all, is it relevant and how are people looking at this data mesh conversation? >>I think it becomes more and more relevant, uh, the bigger the organization that you're dealing with. So, you know, often times in the enterprise, you've got, uh, projects with timelines of five to 10 years often outlasting technology life cycles. The technology that you're building on is probably irrelevant by the time that you complete it. And what we're seeing is that data engineering teams and data teams more broadly, this organizational bottleneck and data mesh is all about, uh, breaking down that, um, bottleneck and decentralizing the work, shifting that work back onto, uh, development teams who oftentimes have got more of the context and a centralized data engineering team. And we're seeing a lot of, uh, Philocity increases as a result of that. >>It's interesting. There's so many different aspects of how data is changing the world. Lynn talks about the volume with the cloud and genomics. We're hearing data engineering at a platform level. You're talking about slicing and dicing and real-time information. You mentioned rock set, Alex. So I'd like to ask each of you to answer this next question, which is how has the team dynamics changed with data engineering because every single company's impacted. So if you're researchers, Lynn, you're pumping more data into the cloud, that's got a little bit of data engineering to it. Do they even understand that is that impacting them? So how has data changed the responsibilities or roles in this new emerging area of data engineering or whatever you want to call it? Lynn, we'll start with you. What do you, what do you see this impact? >>Well, you know, I mean, dev ops becomes data ops and ML ops and, uh, you know, this is a whole emergent area of work and it starts with an understanding of container technologies, which, you know, in different verticals like FinTech, that's a given, right, but in bioinformatics building an appropriately optimized Docker container is something I'm still working with customers now on because they have the concept of a Docker container is just a virtual machine, which obviously it isn't, or shouldn't be. So, um, you have, again, as I mentioned previously, this humongous skill gap, um, concepts like D, which are prevalent in ad tech FinTech, that's not available yet for most of my customers. So those are the things that I'm building. So the whole ops space is, um, this a wide open area. And really it's a question of practicality. Um, you know, I have, uh, a lot of experience with data lakes and, you know, containerizing and using the data lake platform. But a lot of my customers are going to move to like an interim pass based solutions. If they're using spark, for example, they might use to use a managed spark solution as an interim, um, step up to the cloud before they build their own containers. Because the amount of knowledge to do that effectively is non-trivial >>Peter, you mentioned data, you mentioned data lakes, onboarding data into lake house architectures, for instance, something that you're familiar with. Um, this is not obvious to some verticals obvious to others. What do you see this data engineering impact from a personnel standpoint? And then ultimately how things get built, >>You know, are you directing that to me, >>Peter? >>Yeah. So I think, um, first and foremost, you know, the workload that data engineering teams are dealing with is ever increasing. Usually there's a 10 X ratio of, um, software engineers to data engineers within a business and usually double the amount of analysts to data engineers again. And so they're, they're fighting it ever increasing backload. And, uh, so they're fighting an ever increasing backlog of, of, uh, tasks to do and tickets to, to, to churn through. And so what we're seeing is that data engineering teams are becoming data platform engineering teams where they're building capability instead of constantly hamster wheels spinning if you will. And so with that in mind, with onboarding data into, uh, a Lakehouse architecture or a data lake where data engineering teams, uh, uh, getting wins is developing a very good baseline of structure where they're getting the categorization, the data tagging, whether this data is of a particular domain, does it contain some, um, PII data, for instance, uh, and, and, and, and then the security aspects, and also, you know, the mechanisms on which to do the data transformations, >>Alex, on the database side, those are known personas in an enterprise, a them, the database team, but now the scale is so big. Um, and there's so much going on in databases. How does the data engineering impact organizations from your standpoint? >>Yeah, absolutely. I think definitely, you know, gone are the days where you have a single relational database that is serving operational queries for your users, and you can also serve analytics queries, you know, for your internal teams. It's, it's now split up into those purpose-built databases, like we've said. Uh, but now you've got two different teams managing it and they're, they're designing their data model for different things. You know? So L LLTP might have a more de-normalized model, something that works for very fast operations and it's optimized for that, but now you need to suck that data out and get it elsewhere so that your, your PM or your business analyst, or whoever can crunch through some of that. And, you know, now it needs to be in a more normalized format. How do you sort of bridge that gap? That's a tough one. I think you need to, you know, build empathy on each side of, of what each side is doing and, and build the tools to say, Hey, this is going to help you, uh, you know, LLTP team, if we know what, what users are actually doing, and, and if you can get us into the right format there, so that then I can, you know, we can analyze it, um, on the backend. >>So I think, I think building empathy across those teams is helpful. >>When I left to come back to, you mentioned a health and informatics is coming back. Um, but it's interesting, you know, I look at a database world and you look at the solutions that are out there. A lot of companies that build data solutions don't have a data problem. They've never, they're not swimming in a lot of data, but then you look at like the field that you're working in right now with the genomics and health and, and quantum, they're always, they're dealing with data all the time. So you have people who deal with a lot of data all the time are breaking through New Zealand. People who are don't have that experience are now becoming data full, right? So people are now either it's a first time problem, or they've always been swimming in a ton of data. So it's more of what's the new playbook. And then, wow, I've never had to deal with a lot of data before. What's your take? >>It's interesting. Cause they know, uh, bioinformatics hires, um, uh, grad students. So grad students, you know, use their, our scripts with their file on their laptop. And so, um, to get those folks to understand distributed container-based computing is like I said, a not non-trivial problem. What's been really interesting with the money pouring in to COVID research is when I first started, some of the workflows would take, you know, literally 500 hours and that was just okay. And coming out of FinTech, I was, uh, I could, I was blown away like FinTech is like, could that please take a millisecond rather than a second? Right. And so what has now happened, which makes it, you know, like I said, even more fun to work in this domain is, uh, the research dollars have really gone up because of the pandemic. And so there are, there are, there's this blending of people like me with more of a big data background coming into bioinformatics and working side by side. >>So it's this interesting sort of translation because you have the whole taxonomy of bioinformatics with genomics and sequencers and all the weird file types that you get. And then you have the whole taxonomy of dev ops data ops, you know, containers and Kubernetes and all that. And trying to get that into pipelines that can actually, you know, be efficient, given the constraints. Of course, we, on the tech side, we always want to make it super optimized. I had a customer that we got it down from 500 hours to minutes, but they wanted to stay with the past solution because it was easier for them to go from 500 hours to five hours was good enough, but you know, the techies want to get it down to five minutes. >>This is, this is, we've seen this movie before dev ops, um, edge and op operations, you know, IOT, world scenes, the convergence of cultures. Now you have data and then old, old school operations kind of coming up. So this kind of supports the thesis. That data as code is the next infrastructure as code. What do you guys, what's the reaction there for you guys? What do you think about that? What does data's code mean? If infrastructure's code was cloud and dev ops, what is data as code? What does that mean? >>I could take it if you like. I think, um, data teams, organizations, um, have been long been this bottleneck within the organization and there's like this dark matter of untapped energy and potential waiting to be unleashed a data with the advent of open source projects like DBT, um, have been slowly sort of embracing software development, lifecycle practices. And this is really sort of seeing a, a big steep increase in, um, in their velocity. And, and this is only going to increase and improve as we're seeing data teams, um, embrace starter as code. I think it's, uh, the future is bright for data. So I'm very excited. >>Lynn Peter reaction. I mean, agility data is code is developer concept CICB pipeline. You mentioned it new operational workflows coming into traditional operations reaction. >>Yeah. I mean, I think Peter's right on there. I'd say, you know, some of those tools we're seeing come in from, from software, like, like DBT, basically giving you that infrastructure as code, but applied to that data realm. Also there have been a few, like get for data type things, pack a derm, I believe is one and a few other ones where you bring that in and you also see a lot of immutability concepts flowing into the data realm. So I think just seeing some of those software engineering concepts come over to the data world has, has been pretty interesting >>What we'll literally just versioning datasets and the identification of what's in a data set. What's not in a data set. Some of this is around ethical AI as well, um, is a whole, uh, area that has come out of research groups. Um, mostly AI research groups, but is being applied to medical data and needs to be obviously, um, so this, this, this, um, metadata and versioning around data sets is really, I think, a very of the moment area. >>Yeah, I think we, we, you guys are bringing up a really good kind of direction that's happening in data. And that is something that you're seeing on the software side, open source and now dev ops. And now going to data is that the supply chain challenges of we've been talking about it here on the cube and this, this, um, this episode is, you know, we've seen Ukraine war, but some open source, you know, malware hitting datasets is data secure. What is that going to look like? So you starting to get into this what's the supply chain, is it verified data sets if data sets have to be managed a whole nother level of data supply chain comes up, what do you guys think about that? >>I'll jump in. Oh, sorry. I'll jump in again. I think that, you know, there's, there's, um, some, some of the compliance requirements, um, around financial data are going to be applied to other types of data, probably health data. So immutability reproducibility, um, that is, uh, legally required. Um, also some of the privacy requirements that originated in Europe with GDPR are going to be replicated as more and more, um, types of data. And again, I'm always going to speak for health, but there's other types as well coming out of personal devices and that kind of stuff. So I think, you know, this idea of data as code is it's, it goes down to versioning and controlling and, um, that's, uh, that's sort of a real succinct way to say it that we didn't used to think about that. We just put it in our, you know, relational database and we were good to go, but, um, versioning and controlling in the global ecosystem is kind of, uh, where I'm focusing my efforts. >>It brings up a good question. If databases, if data is going to be part of the development process has to be addressable, which means horizontally scalable. That means it has to be accessible and open. How do you make that work and not foreclose it with a lot of restrictions? >>I think the use of data catalogs and appropriate tagging and categorization, you know, I think, you know, everyone's heard of the term data swamp, and I think that just came about because that everyone saw like, oh, wow, S3, you know, infinite storage. We just, you know, throw whatever in there for as long as we want. And I think at times, you know, the proliferation of S3 buckets, um, and the like, you know, we've just seen, uh, perhaps security, not maintained as well as it could have been. And I think that's kind of where data platform engineering teams have really sort of, uh, come into the, for, you know, creating a governance set of buckets like formation on top. But I think that's kind of where we need to see a lot more work with appropriate tags and also the automatic publishing of metadata into data catalogs so that, um, folks can easily search and address particular data sets and also control the access. You know, for instance, you've got some PII data, perhaps really only your marketing folks should be looking at email addresses and the like not perhaps your finance folks. So I think, you know, there's, there's a lot to be leveraged there in formation and other solutions, >>Alex, let's back up and talk about what's in it for the customer, right. Let's zoom back and saying reality is I just got to get my data to make sure it's secure always on and not going to be hackable. And I just got to get my data available on river performance. So then, then I got to start thinking about, okay, how do I intersect it? So what should teams be thinking about right now as I look up all their data options or databases across their enterprise? >>Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a good question. I just, you know, I think Peter made some good points there and you can think of history as sort of ebbing and flowing between centralization and decentralization a lot of times. And you know, when storage was expensive, data was going to be sort of centralized and Maine maintained, sort of a, you know, by the, uh, the people that are in charge of it. But then when, when S3 comes along, it really decreases storage. Now we can do a lot more experiments on it. We can store a lot more of our data, keep it around and do different things on it. You know, now we've got regulations again, we were, we gotta, we gotta be more realistic about, about keeping that data secure and make sure we're, we're doing the right things with it. So it's, we're gonna probably go through a period of, of centralization as we work out some of this tooling around, you know, tagging and, and ethical AI that, that both Peter. And when we're talking about here and maybe get us into that, that next wearable world of de-centralization again. But I, I think that ebb and flow is going to be natural in response to, you know, the problems of the, the other extreme, >>Where are we in the market right now from progress standpoint, because data lakes don't want to be data swamps. You seeing lake formation as a data architecture, as an example, where are we with customers? What are they doing right now? Where would you put them in the progress bar of, of evolution towards the Nirvana of having this data sovereignty? And this data is code environment. Are they just now in the data lake store, everything real-time and historical? >>Well, I can jump in there. Um, SQL on files is the, is the driver. And so we know when Amazon got Athena, um, that really drove a lot of the customers to really realistically look at data lake technologies, but data warehouses are not going away. And the integration between the two is not seamless. No, we, we are partners with AWS, but we don't work for them. So we can tell you the truth here. Um, there's, there's work to it, but it really, for my customers, it really upped the ante around data lake, uh, because Athena and technologies like that, the serverless, um, SQL queries or the familiar quarry, um, uh, libraries really drove a movement away from either OLTB or OLAP, more expensive, more cumbersome structures, >>But they still need that. Oh, LTP, like if they have high latency issues, they want to be low latency. Can they have the best of both worlds? That's the question. >>I mean, I w I would say we're getting, you know, we're getting closer. We're always going to be, uh, you know, that technology is going to be moving forward, and then we'll just move the goalpost again, in terms of, of what we're asking from it. But I think, you know, the technology that's getting out there, you can get, get really well. And then, you know, just what I work in the dynamo DB world. So you can get really great low latency. So, you know, single digit millisecond LLTP response times on that. I think some of the analytics stuff has been a problem with that. And there, there are different solutions out there to where you can export dynamo to S3, and then you can be doing SQL on your FA your files with Athena Lakeland's talking about, or now you see, you know, rock set of partner here that that'll just ingest your dynamo, DB data, you know, make all those changes. So if you're doing a lot of, uh, changes to your data and dynamo is going to reflect in Roxanna, and then you can do analytics queries, you can do complex filters, different things like that. So, you know, I, I think we continue to push the envelope and then we moved the goalpost again. But, um, you know, I think we're in a, a lot better place than we were a few years ago, for sure. >>Where do you guys see this going relative to the next level? If data as code becomes that next agile, um, software defined environment with open source? Well, all of these new tools with serverless things happening with data lakes are built in with nice architectures with data warehouses, where does it go next? What happens next? If this becomes an agile environment, what's the impact? >>Well, I don't want to be so dominant, but I have, I feel strongly, so I'm going to jump in here. So, so I, um, I feel like, you know, now for my, my, my most computationally intensive workloads, I'm using GPS, I'm bursting to GPU for TensorFlow neural networks. So I've been doing quite a bit of exploration around Amazon bracket for QPS and it's early. Um, and it's specialty. It's not, you know, for everybody. And the learning curve again is pretty daunting, but, um, there are some use cases out there. I mean, I got ahold of a paper where some people did some, um, it was a Q CNN, um, quantum convolutional neural network for lung cancer images, um, from COVID patients and the, the, uh, the QP Hugh, um, algorithm pipeline performed more accurately and faster. So I think, um, bursting to quantum is something to pay attention to. >>Awesome. Peter, what's your take on what's next? >>Well, I think there's still, um, that, that was absolutely fascinating from Lynn, but I think also there's, there's, uh, you know, some more sort of low-level, uh, low-hanging fruit available in, in the data stack. I think there's a lot of, there's still a lot of challenges around the transformation there, getting our data from sort of raw landed data into business domains, and that sort of talks to a lot of what data mesh is all about. I think if we can somehow make that a little more frictionless, because that that's really where the like labor intensive work is. That's, that's kinda dominating, uh, data engineering teams and where we're sort of trying to push that, that workload back onto, um, you know, software engineering teams. >>Alice will give you the final word. What's the impact. What's the next step? What's it look like in the future? >>Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've never had the, uh, breaking a data center problem that wind's had, or the bursting the quantum problem, for sure. But, you know, if you're in that, you know, the pool I swim and of terabytes of data and below and things like that, I think it's a good time. It just like we saw, you know, like we were talking about dev ops and, and pushing, uh, you know, allowing software engineers to handle more of, of the operation stuff. I think the same thing with data can happen where, you know, software engineering teams can handle not just their code, not just, you know, deploying and operating it, but also thinking about their data around the code. And that doesn't mean you won't have people assist you within your organization. You won't have some specialists in there, but I think pushing more stuff, even onto the individual development teams where they have ownership of that. And they're thinking about it through all this different life cycle. I mean, I'm pretty bullish on that. And I think that's an exciting development >>Was that shift, what left with left is security. What does that mean to >>Shipped so much stuff left, but now, you know, the things that were at the end are back at the end again, but, uh, you know, at least we think we can think about that stuff early in the process, which is good, >>Great conversation, very provocative, very realistic and great impact on the future data as code is real, the developers I do believe will have a great operational role and the data stack concept and impacting things like quantum, it's all kind of lining up nicely. Um, and it's a great opportunity to be in this field from a science and policy standpoint. Um, data engineering is legit. It's going to continue to grow and thanks for unpacking that here on the queue. Appreciate it. Okay. Great panel D AWS heroes. They work with AWS and the ecosystem independently out there. They're in the trenches doing the front lines, cracking the code here with data as code season two, episode two of the ongoing series of the 80, but startups I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching.

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vollante. >> The rise of Kubernetes came about through a combination of forces that were, in hindsight, quite a long shot. Amazon's dominance created momentum for Cloud native application development, and the need for newer and simpler experiences, beyond just easily spinning up computer as a service. This wave crashed into innovations from a startup named Docker, and a reluctant competitor in Google, that needed a way to change the game on Amazon and the Cloud. Now, add in the effort of Red Hat, which needed a new path beyond Enterprise Linux, and oh, by the way, it was just about to commit to a path of a Kubernetes alternative for OpenShift and figure out a governance structure to hurt all the cats and the ecosystem and you get the remarkable ascendancy of Kubernetes. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we tapped the back stories of a new documentary that explains the improbable events that led to the creation of Kubernetes. We'll share some new survey data from ETR and commentary from the many early the innovators who came on theCUBE during the exciting period since the founding of Docker in 2013, which marked a new era in computing, because we're talking about Kubernetes and developers today, the hoodie is on. And there's a new two part documentary that I just referenced, it's out and it was produced by Honeypot on Kubernetes, part one and part two, tells a story of how Kubernetes came to prominence and many of the players that made it happen. Now, a lot of these players, including Tim Hawkin Kelsey Hightower, Craig McLuckie, Joe Beda, Brian Grant Solomon Hykes, Jerry Chen and others came on theCUBE during formative years of containers going mainstream and the rise of Kubernetes. John Furrier and Stu Miniman were at the many shows we covered back then and they unpacked what was happening at the time. We'll share the commentary from the guests that they interviewed and try to add some context. Now let's start with the concept of developer defined structure, DDI. Jerry Chen was at VMware and he could see the trends that were evolving. He left VMware to become a venture capitalist at Greylock. Docker was his first investment. And he saw the future this way. >> What happens is when you define infrastructure software you can program it. You make it portable. And that the beauty of this cloud wave what I call DDI's. Now, to your point is every piece of infrastructure from storage, networking, to compute has an API, right? And, and AWS there was an early trend where S3, EBS, EC2 had API. >> As building blocks too. >> As building blocks, exactly. >> Not monolithic. >> Monolithic building blocks every little building bone block has it own API and just like Docker really is the API for this unit of the cloud enables developers to define how they want to build their applications, how to network them know as Wills talked about, and how you want to secure them and how you want to store them. And so the beauty of this generation is now developers are determining how apps are built, not just at the, you know, end user, you know, iPhone app layer the data layer, the storage layer, the networking layer. So every single level is being disrupted by this concept of a DDI and where, how you build use and actually purchase IT has changed. And you're seeing the incumbent vendors like Oracle, VMware Microsoft try to react but you're seeing a whole new generation startup. >> Now what Jerry was explaining is that this new abstraction layer that was being built here's some ETR data that quantifies that and shows where we are today. The chart shows net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share which represents the pervasiveness in the survey set. So as Jerry and the innovators who created Docker saw the cloud was becoming prominent and you can see it still has spending velocity that's elevated above that 40% red line which is kind of a magic mark of momentum. And of course, it's very prominent on the X axis as well. And you see the low level infrastructure virtualization and that even floats above servers and storage and networking right. Back in 2013 the conversation with VMware. And by the way, I remember having this conversation deeply at the time with Chad Sakac was we're going to make this low level infrastructure invisible, and we intend to make virtualization invisible, IE simplified. And so, you see above the two arrows there related to containers, container orchestration and container platforms, which are abstraction layers and services above the underlying VMs and hardware. And you can see the momentum that they have right there with the cloud and AI and RPA. So you had these forces that Jerry described that were taking shape, and this picture kind of summarizes how they came together to form Kubernetes. And the upper left, Of course you see AWS and we inserted a picture from a post we did, right after the first reinvent in 2012, it was obvious to us at the time that the cloud gorilla was AWS and had all this momentum. Now, Solomon Hykes, the founder of Docker, you see there in the upper right. He saw the need to simplify the packaging of applications for cloud developers. Here's how he described it. Back in 2014 in theCUBE with John Furrier >> Container is a unit of deployment, right? It's the format in which you package your application all the files, all the executables libraries all the dependencies in one thing that you can move to any server and deploy in a repeatable way. So it's similar to how you would run an iOS app on an iPhone, for example. >> A Docker at the time was a 30% company and it just changed its name from .cloud. And back to the diagram you have Google with a red question mark. So why would you need more than what Docker had created. Craig McLuckie, who was a product manager at Google back then explains the need for yet another abstraction. >> We created the strong separation between infrastructure operations and application operations. And so, Docker has created a portable framework to take it, basically a binary and run it anywhere which is an amazing capability, but that's not enough. You also need to be able to manage that with a framework that can run anywhere. And so, the union of Docker and Kubernetes provides this framework where you're completely abstracted from the underlying infrastructure. You could use VMware, you could use Red Hat open stack deployment. You could run on another major cloud provider like rec. >> Now Google had this huge cloud infrastructure but no commercial cloud business compete with AWS. At least not one that was taken seriously at the time. So it needed a way to change the game. And it had this thing called Google Borg, which is a container management system and scheduler and Google looked at what was happening with virtualization and said, you know, we obviously could do better Joe Beda, who was with Google at the time explains their mindset going back to the beginning. >> Craig and I started up Google compute engine VM as a service. And the odd thing to recognize is that, nobody who had been in Google for a long time thought that there was anything to this VM stuff, right? Cause Google had been on containers for so long. That was their mindset board was the way that stuff was actually deployed. So, you know, my boss at the time, who's now at Cloudera booted up a VM for the first time, and anybody in the outside world be like, Hey, that's really cool. And his response was like, well now what? Right. You're sitting at a prompt. Like that's not super interesting. How do I run my app? Right. Which is, that's what everybody's been struggling with, with cloud is not how do I get a VM up? How do I actually run my code? >> Okay. So Google never really did virtualization. They were looking at the market and said, okay what can we do to make Google relevant in cloud. Here's Eric Brewer from Google. Talking on theCUBE about Google's thought process at the time. >> One interest things about Google is it essentially makes no use of virtual machines internally. And that's because Google started in 1998 which is the same year that VMware started was kind of brought the modern virtual machine to bear. And so Google infrastructure tends to be built really on kind of classic Unix processes and communication. And so scaling that up, you get a system that works a lot with just processes and containers. So kind of when I saw containers come along with Docker, we said, well, that's a good model for us. And we can take what we know internally which was called Borg a big scheduler. And we can turn that into Kubernetes and we'll open source it. And suddenly we have kind of a cloud version of Google that works the way we would like it to work. >> Now, Eric Brewer gave us the bumper sticker version of the story there. What he reveals in the documentary that I referenced earlier is that initially Google was like, why would we open source our secret sauce to help competitors? So folks like Tim Hockin and Brian Grant who were on the original Kubernetes team, went to management and pressed hard to convince them to bless open sourcing Kubernetes. Here's Hockin's explanation. >> When Docker landed, we saw the community building and building and building. I mean, that was a snowball of its own, right? And as it caught on we realized we know what this is going to we know once you embrace the Docker mindset that you very quickly need something to manage all of your Docker nodes, once you get beyond two or three of them, and we know how to build that, right? We got a ton of experience here. Like we went to our leadership and said, you know, please this is going to happen with us or without us. And I think it, the world would be better if we helped. >> So the open source strategy became more compelling as they studied the problem because it gave Google a way to neutralize AWS's advantage because with containers you could develop on AWS for example, and then run the application anywhere like Google's cloud. So it not only gave developers a path off of AWS. If Google could develop a strong service on GCP they could monetize that play. Now, focus your attention back to the diagram which shows this smiling, Alex Polvi from Core OS which was acquired by Red Hat in 2018. And he saw the need to bring Linux into the cloud. I mean, after all Linux was powering the internet it was the OS for enterprise apps. And he saw the need to extend its path into the cloud. Now here's how he described it at an OpenStack event in 2015. >> Similar to what happened with Linux. Like yes, there is still need for Linux and Windows and other OSs out there. But by and large on production, web infrastructure it's all Linux now. And you were able to get onto one stack. And how were you able to do that? It was, it was by having a truly open consistent API and a commitment into not breaking APIs and, so on. That allowed Linux to really become ubiquitous in the data center. Yes, there are other OSs, but Linux buy in large for production infrastructure, what is being used. And I think you'll see a similar phenomenon happen for this next level up cause we're treating the whole data center as a computer instead of trading one in visual instance is just the computer. And that's the stuff that Kubernetes to me and someone is doing. And I think there will be one that shakes out over time and we believe that'll be Kubernetes. >> So Alex saw the need for a dominant container orchestration platform. And you heard him, they made the right bet. It would be Kubernetes. Now Red Hat, Red Hat is been around since 1993. So it has a lot of on-prem. So it needed a future path to the cloud. So they rang up Google and said, hey. What do you guys have going on in this space? So Google, was kind of non-committal, but it did expose that they were thinking about doing something that was you know, pre Kubernetes. It was before it was called Kubernetes. But hey, we have this thing and we're thinking about open sourcing it, but Google's internal debates, and you know, some of the arm twisting from the engine engineers, it was taking too long. So Red Hat said, well, screw it. We got to move forward with OpenShift. So we'll do what Apple and Airbnb and Heroku are doing and we'll build on an alternative. And so they were ready to go with Mesos which was very much more sophisticated than Kubernetes at the time and much more mature, but then Google the last minute said, hey, let's do this. So Clayton Coleman with Red Hat, he was an architect. And he leaned in right away. He was one of the first outside committers outside of Google. But you still led these competing forces in the market. And internally there were debates. Do we go with simplicity or do we go with system scale? And Hen Goldberg from Google explains why they focus first on simplicity in getting that right. >> We had to defend of why we are only supporting 100 nodes in the first release of Kubernetes. And they explained that they know how to build for scale. They've done that. They know how to do it, but realistically most of users don't need large clusters. So why create this complexity? >> So Goldberg explains that rather than competing right away with say Mesos or Docker swarm, which were far more baked they made the bet to keep it simple and go for adoption and ubiquity, which obviously turned out to be the right choice. But the last piece of the puzzle was governance. Now Google promised to open source Kubernetes but when it started to open up to contributors outside of Google, the code was still controlled by Google and developers had to sign Google paper that said Google could still do whatever it wanted. It could sub license, et cetera. So Google had to pass the Baton to an independent entity and that's how CNCF was started. Kubernetes was its first project. And let's listen to Chris Aniszczyk of the CNCF explain >> CNCF is all about providing a neutral home for cloud native technology. And, you know, it's been about almost two years since our first board meeting. And the idea was, you know there's a certain set of technology out there, you know that are essentially microservice based that like live in containers that are essentially orchestrated by some process, right? That's essentially what we mean when we say cloud native right. And CNCF was seated with Kubernetes as its first project. And you know, as, as we've seen over the last couple years Kubernetes has grown, you know, quite well they have a large community a diverse con you know, contributor base and have done, you know, kind of extremely well. They're one of actually the fastest, you know highest velocity, open source projects out there, maybe. >> Okay. So this is how we got to where we are today. This ETR data shows container orchestration offerings. It's the same X Y graph that we showed earlier. And you can see where Kubernetes lands not we're standing that Kubernetes not a company but respondents, you know, they doing Kubernetes. They maybe don't know, you know, whose platform and it's hard with the ETR taxon economy as a fuzzy and survey data because Kubernetes is increasingly becoming embedded into cloud platforms. And IT pros, they may not even know which one specifically. And so the reason we've linked these two platforms Kubernetes and Red Hat OpenShift is because OpenShift right now is a dominant revenue player in the space and is increasingly popular PaaS layer. Yeah. You could download Kubernetes and do what you want with it. But if you're really building enterprise apps you're going to need support. And that's where OpenShift comes in. And there's not much data on this but we did find this chart from AMDA which show was the container software market, whatever that really is. And Red Hat has got 50% of it. This is revenue. And, you know, we know the muscle of IBM is behind OpenShift. So there's really not hard to believe. Now we've got some other data points that show how Kubernetes is becoming less visible and more embedded under of the hood. If you will, as this chart shows this is data from CNCF's annual survey they had 1800 respondents here, and the data showed that 79% of respondents use certified Kubernetes hosted platforms. Amazon elastic container service for Kubernetes was the most prominent 39% followed by Azure Kubernetes service at 23% in Azure AKS engine at 17%. With Google's GKE, Google Kubernetes engine behind those three. Now. You have to ask, okay, Google. Google's management Initially they had concerns. You know, why are we open sourcing such a key technology? And the premise was, it would level the playing field. And for sure it has, but you have to ask has it driven the monetization Google was after? And I would've to say no, it probably didn't. But think about where Google would've been. If it hadn't open source Kubernetes how relevant would it be in the cloud discussion. Despite its distant third position behind AWS and Microsoft or even fourth, if you include Alibaba without Kubernetes Google probably would be much less prominent or possibly even irrelevant in cloud, enterprise cloud. Okay. Let's wrap up with some comments on the state of Kubernetes and maybe a thought or two about, you know, where we're headed. So look, no shocker Kubernetes for all its improbable beginning has gone mainstream in the past year or so. We're seeing much more maturity and support for state full workloads and big ecosystem support with respect to better security and continued simplification. But you know, it's still pretty complex. It's getting better, but it's not VMware level of maturity. For example, of course. Now adoption has always been strong for Kubernetes, for cloud native companies who start with containers on day one, but we're seeing many more. IT organizations adopting Kubernetes as it matures. It's interesting, you know, Docker set out to be the system of the cloud and Kubernetes has really kind of become that. Docker desktop is where Docker's action really is. That's where Docker is thriving. It sold off Docker swarm to Mirantis has made some tweaks. Docker has made some tweaks to its licensing model to be able to continue to evolve its its business. To hear more about that at DockerCon. And as we said, years ago we expected Kubernetes to become less visible Stu Miniman and I talked about this in one of our predictions post and really become more embedded into other platforms. And that's exactly what's happening here but it's still complicated. Remember, remember the... Go back to the early and mid cycle of VMware understanding things like application performance you needed folks in lab coats to really remediate problems and dig in and peel the onion and scale the system you know, and in some ways you're seeing that dynamic repeated with Kubernetes, security performance scale recovery, when something goes wrong all are made more difficult by the rapid pace at which the ecosystem is evolving Kubernetes. But it's definitely headed in the right direction. So what's next for Kubernetes we would expect further simplification and you're going to see more abstractions. We live in this world of almost perpetual abstractions. Now, as Kubernetes improves support from multi cluster it will be begin to treat those clusters as a unified group. So kind of abstracting multiple clusters and treating them as, as one to be managed together. And this is going to create a lot of ecosystem focus on scaling globally. Okay, once you do that, you're going to have to worry about latency and then you're going to have to keep pace with security as you expand the, the threat area. And then of course recovery what happens when something goes wrong, more complexity, the harder it is to recover and that's going to require new services to share resources across clusters. So look for that. You also should expect more automation. It's going to be driven by the host cloud providers as Kubernetes supports more state full applications and begins to extend its cluster management. Cloud providers will inject as much automation as possible into the system. Now and finally, as these capabilities mature we would expect to see better support for data intensive workloads like, AI and Machine learning and inference. Schedule with these workloads becomes harder because they're so resource intensive and performance management becomes more complex. So that's going to have to evolve. I mean, frankly, many of the things that Kubernetes team way back when, you know they back burn it early on, for example, you saw in Docker swarm or Mesos they're going to start to enter the scene now with Kubernetes as they start to sort of prioritize some of those more complex functions. Now, the last thing I'll ask you to think about is what's next beyond Kubernetes, you know this isn't it right with serverless and IOT in the edge and new data, heavy workloads there's something that's going to disrupt Kubernetes. So in that, by the way, in that CNCF survey nearly 40% of respondents were using serverless and that's going to keep growing. So how is that going to change the development model? You know, Andy Jassy once famously said that if they had to start over with Amazon retail, they'd start with serverless. So let's keep an eye on the horizon to see what's coming next. All right, that's it for now. I want to thank my colleagues, Stephanie Chan who helped research this week's topics and Alex Myerson on the production team, who also manages the breaking analysis podcast, Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on socials, so thanks to all of you. Remember these episodes, they're all available as podcasts wherever you listen, just search breaking analysis podcast. Don't forget to check out ETR website @etr.ai. We'll also publish. We publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and Silicon angle.com. You can get in touch with me, email me directly david.villane@Siliconangle.com or DM me at D Vollante. You can comment on our LinkedIn post. This is Dave Vollante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, everybody. Thanks for watching. Stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>the service experience has dramatically changed over the course of history within enterprise it once a purely break fixed business that put out fires technology services has become a linchpin of customer I. T. Execution strategies where companies carefully select technology partners to anticipate and remediate potential problems before they occur. Moreover, organizations have come to expect a cloud like experience for their entire I. T. Estate spanning on prem cloud cross clouds. And increasingly the edge and technology services are looked upon by customers to provide a layer that helps abstract that underlying complexity of I. T. So they can focus on what they do best welcome to the cubes ongoing virtual coverage of Dell technologies world with me today to talk about the modern services experience are Doug Schmidt, who is the president of Dell Technologies and Services and Alex Barreto. Senior vice president. Dell Technology Services gentlemen welcome to the cube. Great to see you >>Well thank you. Dave big traven us >>really. My pleasure. Doug and I wonder if you could start by just giving us a quick overview of the organization that you lied. What's new with with Dell technology services? >>Well, yeah, so you know, first of all I get the privilege along with my team of leading over 60,000 service professionals and partners and we support customers in over 170 countries and 54 languages. And we can cover the entire technology spectrum from the edge to the core to the cloud. And our expertise in this area is broad and deep as you can imagine. And we help our customers with their transformation with the indian services and this includes consulting, uh deployment, support, managed services, education services as well as asset recovery. So just to name a few, so we use all of this technology and this capability to help our customers with their digital transformation. >>Greatest Alex, what's your wheelhouse? What's your role in in the services, strategy and technology? >>Yeah, I have the great opportunity to drive strategy, operations and technology. We're doing exciting things across all three day. But in particularly the technology space when I think about the intersection of technology and customer experience, a lot of exciting things there, I'm sure we'll talk about today. >>Yeah. Doug I mean if you look at the past 12 months, I mean you certainly saw you know, a real shift to work from home technologies and you guys, you know all about, you know the story well. But one of the things that we've been talking about is the uptick that we're expecting and we're already seeing it in professional services because there is a talent gap, there's a skills shortage and people have to they have to get hybrid right, they have to fund their digital transformation, they need help. So there's been a lot of changes in the market during the past year. What are you hearing from customers? What are their priorities? How are they changing? >>Well yeah you've stated Dave look there's a lot of changes in the market during the last year clearly and what our customers are telling us and where they're changing priorities are are really centered around two things. The first uh is that all of us are helping our customers deliver a better experience to their customers right to end customers that matters. You know in a brand new study we commissioned from Forrester consulting. Actually 56% of I. T. Leaders said that improving customer experience is the top driver for their digital transformation efforts. The second thing that we're hearing and that I'm hearing is that they're asking us to assist in this digital transformation. In that same research that I talked to you about From Forrester, 81 of the Iraqi leaders said that they need to leverage external technology specific expertise to help their internal I. T. Teams be successful. And I think just to deep dive these two items, you know first it's on the first one for the customer experience. It's just crucial for customers to transform their C. X. To be competitive. That's for all of us and you know there's not an industry or a team around that's not going through this whether it's schools uh doing digital learning healthcare and all of the things you know recently I just talked to a doctor via the you know zoom. I mean these are all new experiences, right? Uh government and corporations. It's just it's very remote. It's very seamless. It's very timely and uh look the employee experience is also closely tied to this right to the customer experience. Obviously if your employees aren't able to perform in this environment you can't really deliver the customer experience and they need the right technology and tools to really deliver that. And that's where we at Dell Technologies and Dell Technology Services are really helping our customers. Uh The second area I mentioned was really about getting our customers ready for the future and you know, digital transformation is not a one and done. This is a ongoing journey uh that gets our customers to assist their customers and their team members. And look they're looking for trusted advisor who can you know, specialized in the experience they need uh to guide them through this. And you know, I. T. Is not just back office anymore, as you know, it's really about getting in front of this, breaking down the silos, helping all of the departments not just I. T. Everything with their business needs and really delivering these outcomes that are going to help them with the customer experience and the digital transformation. >>Yeah thank you for that. And and doug I mean the Consumer Ization of I. T. Has been going on for the better part of a decade or or or more the cloud obviously has affected how we think about the experience and pricing and the like and and we're hearing a lot about Apex from Dell tech right now. What's the role of services in apex? >>Well look services has always been a primary interface with our customers and will continue to play a major part of that. And this is really about services and our products and our great solutions and software all coming together to really deliver the best experience for our customers. But specifically speaking about services, look this will be about services helping our customers seamlessly integrate apex offers and leverage the best of our infrastructure management capabilities into end. And I talked a little bit about those at the beginning, but this will be helping the customers deploy apex monitor it operated, optimized support, Decommissioning all those things from the end in life cycle. And look, we'll leverage our advantages in the supply slain as well. And scale Apex globally working with Kevin Brown and the operations team. So it's about bringing all the strength of Dell along with services to deliver apex, you know, services also is going to help accelerate the value of the customers with for example, apex data storage as a service, which I'm sure you're hearing about will manage the infrastructure across the lifecycle and help our customers get the most out of all of this great technology, we're bringing >>so Alex and then dug maybe you can you can chime in but you guys, you talked talked talked about how important customer experiences can you tell us more about what services is doing to specifically enhance that customer experience? Yeah, >>sure. Thank David. And look, you talked about which I thought was great about the notion of services much more than just break fixed. So that customer experience now spans the entire services lifecycle. So when we talk, yes, it's really that entire Cf. So we're doing a couple of things to to really drive customer experience to the next level. In fact three distinct focus areas. The first one is really around artificial intelligence, machine learning and embedding that notion of A I into everything that we do, whether that support deployment services, managed services, consulting services, education services. The entire spectrum of our services offering now carries a I into the services offering. We started with support but now we expanded to the entire entire spectrum that drives efficiency and customers see that and feel that in terms of lower costs, greater speed, it drives value for our customers as well because they're able to generate new and appreciated insights. And second, if you think about the total customer experience, there are times when they do have to interact with us and that interaction now is food and it's a seamless, unified in simple experience that the customers have with us across the entire product set of Dell. So there's pc servers, network storage we provide, we provide a single unified view in a simple view for our customers. And then third, if you think about our services offers, we're modernizing them, talked a little bit about this as well. We're embedding technology into the services offering, make them better and faster. Good example, that is modern provisioning. We launched at the beginning this year. Great market feedback has new features, new capability, leverages our cloud infrastructure to deliver the services. >>You know, Alex, I want to stay on that for a minute because when I when I think about apex to me it's it's it's a cultural transformation that's going on. I mean look, Del is a tech technology company, have been product company and you know, services there to support that, but it's always you've always had to align with product. But now that I almost see the, you know, the product is aligning with the customer service experience and they're coming together like this. So so we talked about the changes and obviously the focus on C. X. Can you tell us more about the specific technologies that services is leveraging to affect that? >>Yeah it's a good question. Often we actually talked about products and services now and services is the product, as you said, they're really coming together and there are a number of things we're doing to drive that technology change both within apex and also outside apex of our regular Capex model. So a couple examples of things were around the data management side as an example using graph technologies to really contextualized data generate insights from that data regardless of how the data is structured, regardless of where the data is stored, represent those values. Were using that inside L. For services, we actually then monetizing that in providing that to our customers. We are consulting services and manage services. You talked about Apex Cloud is and hybrid Cloud is a big big area for us. Big focus here. In fact all the apex offers are actually they'll manage customer operators. So that managed services component is integrated and is a fundamental part of everything our other apex offers that we're putting in place. There are a couple of other areas. We're also excited about two of them to highlight specifically Five G and the Edge and five G. We see phenomenal growth and opportunities around for customers around the new digital transformation that they can do with five G. But enabling that is the carriers behind that infrastructure of five G, which we are supporting with our managed services, developing carrier grade specific managed services capabilities for carriers around the globe. And on the edge side with the growth and phenomenal exponential growth actually of data around the far edge being driven by sensors and greater compute needs and storage needs at the far edge, we're actually providing services for those specific data centers. They're very distributed some of them in urban areas, some of them in non urban ears and there's hundreds of them and they require remote services capabilities which we have that infrastructure today. So we're deploying that in this far edge space, another area that we're excited about five G the edge apex and then our core services capabilities, >>the edges like this, this really infinite technology opportunity. It's so we see the, you know, the data center and you see the cloud and okay, we were largely a remote set of cloud services. You're seeing the cloud come into the on prem, you're seeing on prem come into the cloud. So you've got the hybrid connections here, cross cloud and then even at the edge you've got layers of edge, you think about, you know, the autonomous vehicle, there's so much going on their custom silicon etcetera, it's okay you're not gonna get into the auto business, I don't think at least any time soon. But all that data that's being collected that has to get back to the cloud and much of its not gonna get persisted. A lot of it's gonna stay at the edge of a lot of it's gonna come back to the cloud. Everything is just exploding. You've gotta roll there. It's just these layers and connections that are coming through into this, this kind of ubiquitous matrix. I mean it's like the movie, it's amazing. Very exciting times. And doug. I wonder just going off here Doug. I wonder if we could give you the last word. Maybe I'm looking into the future beyond apex what's next for Dell tech services and your customers? >>Well, first of all, they did a great job on that. It is exciting. Look, and the reason we're putting so much effort into the emerging technologies uh we've talked about is to prepare uh you know assist our customers with this and you and you brought this up as well. Look, the vast amount of customer data uh that they're going to have to contend with is just staggering. 175 0 bytes of data will be created worldwide by 2025 according to D. C. And even more amazing about that is 30% of it is you know, projected to be processed real time. You're talking about that edge, right? And more than you know 50% of the enterprise generated data will be created and processed at that edge according to Gartner. So look it's gonna be exciting. And over the next 5 to 10 years we predict that all devices will be able to communicate anywhere on earth. And you know look these types of support tools to gather intelligence from billions of in point, uh, is going to be fascinating as well. And there will be new ways to consume the this knowledge seamlessly, making the relationship between us and the intelligence even more seamless and natural. You know, an example of that that we're working with right now is augmented reality a R out for our field resources. And, you know, we're seeing the capability, it's going to provide our field engineers and it's, it's pretty amazing gonna buy a better experience for our team members and a better experience for our customers. You know, and customers are going to have to contend with all of these challenges. And so we're modernizing to help them and kind of just summarizing up, you know, look, the value of services is really about shifting to intelligence as a service. And there's three ways uh, that this will really come about. One is our relationship with our customers is evolving from providing technology solutions. You mentioned this in your opening to being fully integrated as a business partner. That's the first one. Second one, we're helping to shape how our customers run their business from processes to resources to the experience they delivered to their end customer. That's number two and number three, it's really about uh measuring our success. Everything we do is about our customers achieving their business targets and their outcomes. And that's why we believe intelligence as a service is the future of services. >>And this is where technology plays such an important role in the services component of that as they set up front is the linchpin. There's an inverse relationship over the course of my career between the customer experience and the technical complexity. The simpler it gets for customers, the more complex it gets at the back end, and you've got to hide that complexity and that's a big part of where technology and services comes in. We're seeing the explosion of data as you said, and and the explosion of processing power is very exciting times, Alex and Doug. Thanks so much for coming to the Cuban, sharing the update on Dell Tech services in the future. I really appreciate your time. >>Thank you. Thank you for having us. >>All right, and thank you for watching everybody's day volonte for the Cube and our ongoing coverage of Dell Technologies World 2021. The virtual edition will be right back.

>>from >>Around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by >>IBM. Welcome back to IBM Think 2021. This is the cubes ongoing coverage where we go out to the events in this case of course virtually to extract the signal from the noise. And now we're gonna talk about the shifts in customer employee experiences and channels the past year obviously is exposed gap gaps in both of those areas. The shift to digital channels, I mean hit every industry if you weren't a digital business, you were out of business. So there's huge demand for better a. K. A less frustrating and hopefully superior customer experiences that's never been higher. It puts a lot of pressure on companies and their marketing departments to deliver. And with me to talk about these trends are two great guests Alex shooting in. The general manager of adobe work front Alex was ceo of Work front, which Adobe acquired last year and Matthew Candy Global managing director of I. B. M. I. X. Gentlemen welcome thanks for coming on, >>thanks for having us speaking >>matt, let's start with you. Maybe you could talk to the shifts that I talked about earlier and in the past year and customers expectations and how they changed and how you guys responded >>Yes, today, I mean it's been my goodness, what a year, right. Um you know, if we've got back and and thought yeah, we never would have seen this coming. Um and certainly I guess for the clients, you know, I run the digital customer experience business, the services business here at IBM and certainly, you know, we have been very busy helping clients across just about every industry accelerate their digital transformation efforts. And I think you know what has been absolutely clear is you know, digital mobile um you know, all of these ways of engaging with customers through channels has been an absolutely critical way in which businesses have kept going and survived over this time. And and certainly, you know, we've seen that transformation accelerate right? And and companies shifting from face to face interactions from a B two B sales perspective, um you know, into, you know, into a kind of online, B two B commerce etcetera. So really it's become digital by default and I think customers really demanding personalized experiences and wanting to make sure that these companies really know you and how they deal with you. >>You know, matt, I mean our business to think about our business, it was predominantly going out to events, live events and then overnight our entire industry had to shift to virtual and what it was is you had all these physical capabilities that people try to shove it into virtual. And it was really hard. It was it was a lot of unknowns really different. I imagine there's some parallels within marketing organizations and I wonder if you could talk about what kind of barriers you saw about delivering those kind of digital interactions and experiences. >>Yes, so I guess, you know, we've seen kind of five core challenges that companies have been facing. So firstly around volume and velocity of content. So, you know, as we're putting more demand into organizations right for more content to the greater pace. This causes challenges for companies in terms of being able to get content out there and surface it through their digital channels, right? Whether that's kiosks or voice, web mobile etcetera. And that pace is not slowing down. Second thing is this demand for personalization. So, you know, as companies and individuals are touching through all of these touchpoints across kind of marketing, sales and service, the need to be able to kind of interact in the right way, showing that, you know, me using personal data to match the right offer at the right time, critically important. Thirdly, the Martek stack across across many of these organizations is explosion in marketing technology over the last 10 years has been absolutely incredible. And so one of the big challenges companies have is how we tie all of these different components for stack together to build their seamless experience. Fourth challenge, right, additional communication channels. Um, so as we need more content and personalization and we've got to join up across these, all these different systems, how do we make this consistent across all of these channels? Right. Whether it's digital or physical, um, you know, is a true test of many organizations ability to respond. And the 5th point is the coordination needed across departments within companies. And so, you know how the marketing department deals with legal with regulatory approvals with sales, how they go out to their agency partners. And and and and this has certainly got a lot more complex across geography and across boundaries within companies and outside. And so we see, you know, absolutely this need to put in place and marketing, you know, basically the marketing system of record that helps kind of manage this and this is where we see huge opportunity together with adobe. >>Yeah, so Alex, maybe you could talk about this a little bit. I mean you guys are well known for deep expertise and leadership and orchestrating, you know, marketing workflows and the like Matt talked about the Martek stack. What's your take on this and how R R I B M I X and an adobe work front working together >>at what has occurred in response to what matt talked about is that companies started realizing that work was a tier one asset inside the marketing team. You know, they looked at, if you go back in time and you look at financials in a company, people thought, wow this is really important to us. We should put a system in place to manage financials. They realized their customers were really important, so we should put a system in place to manage our customers. People are important. They bought work day to make sure that they could manage their people. And all of this complexity that matt talked about caused enterprises to realize that the work of marketing was as important as some of those other activities in the organization. And so they started investing in a marketing system of record like work from. >>You know, that's interesting. Just a quick aside, I mean, if you think about a lot of the problems we have in in, you know, data and big data that people talk about stovepipe, you just mentioned three examples Finance HR and now marketing where we've contextualized the system, in other words, the domain experts, the people in finance and HR and marketing, they're the ones who know the date of the best. They don't have to go necessarily to some big data team and data scientists and all the stuff they know what they want and they know it and that's really what you guys are serving in your streamlining this this notion, Alex of a marketing system of record is really interesting. I mean, it's it's relatively new, isn't it? And so why does it matter so much to marketers >>if you think about it? We uh we've been able to serve 3000 enterprises around the, around the globe. We serve all 10 of the top 10 brands. Half of the fortune 100. And what what has created the need for the new if you think about it, are the challenges that start arising when you, when you implement the concepts that matt talked about, consider one of the largest private credit card issuers on the planet. Uh, and you think about delivering that personalized experience all the way to an end customer. You've got a private credit card issuer. They do business with hundreds of thousands of companies. Their account managers are interacting with those companies. And all that lands back on a marketing organization that has to jointly plan promotions with those companies to, uh, to, to drive the private credit card business. That marketing team needs visibility to the work that's happening. Or consider a major medical manufacturer who's trying to get medical products out the door. And the marketing team is trying to coordinate with the product team with the regulatory team, with the supply chain team, with the legal team and they're trying to orchestrate all of that work so that they can get products out the door more quickly. Or maybe a financial services organization that's getting new. Also trying to get new products out the door and they're trying to get all the approval about the content that goes with those products and it's all about speed to market. That's what's creating the need for the new, uh, kind of, as you phrased it Dave. >>Excellent. Thank you. So no matter paint a picture sort of, uh, you know, people may not be familiar with I. B. M. I X. Maybe how you guys, you got, you got creators, you've got deep expertise in this area. So maybe talk about how where you add value and how you work with adobe. >>So IBM so we sit within the services business at IBM um as you said, Dave Right, we have, you know, designers, experienced strategists, engineers, um you know, basically able to deliver kind of end to end digital customer experience solution right from the creative all the way through to the technology platforms. Um And the operations adobe is, you know, one of our key strategic partners across IBM and certainly within my part of the business. And so, you know, we couldn't have been more delighted when work front joined adobe through the acquisition there. So we already had a strong relationship with the work front team. Um and so now seeing that as part of the adobe kind of platform um and and family, they're really opens up massive opportunities. You know, we're working with several major airlines, automotive companies, retailers, um using adobe technology to transform the customer experiences that they have, putting in place new digital platforms, a new ways of engaging with those customers. But but what is absolutely clear, you know, and as Alex was talking about this need for a marketing systems of record, as this landscape becomes more complex, as the velocity of change kind of increases the need to not just focus on the customer experience and how a customer interacts with the brand, but the need to get the workflows and the processes within the organization that sit behind that, you know, organized executing in the correct way, uh you know, in an efficient way in order to make sure that you can deliver on that customer promise. And so this is absolutely critical effectively to get to get to drive this kind of workflow improvement of productivity improvement and put intelligence and automation into these processes across the organization. So there is a you know, certainly we know we believe a huge opportunity together in in in the market um to help clients transform um and to deliver the value in this space. Got >>it Alex, maybe you can just at a high level share some examples of how adobe and from your drawing on your experience from from work front, how you've helped companies where they had to get you know content out, you had to automate the processes and and the kind of outcomes that you saw that you hope to share with other clients. >>You know what that's talking about is the need for intelligent workflows within a marketing organization. Because the marketing organization is trying to solve one of two challenges. Either they're trying to be more efficient because they can't get more resources to do the work that they need to do or they're trying to operate with speed and so what our breakthrough thinking was there in terms of solving these problems. And then I'll give you an example is the realization that while it seems like work should be different in different enterprises. Ultimately all work has five elements to it. The first thing is you decide to do something or I ask you to do something. So we have to have this strategic planning around the intake of work. Then we have to plan out the work. Then we actually have to execute the work. We have to understand who's doing what we have to have transparency to whether or not that work is getting done or people need help in network, then network needs to be approved by somebody. And then finally, especially in marketing, then we have to actually deliver that work to a technology like Am where we're going to publish it on, on the web. So if you take the case of a major financial, uh, a financial company that serves consumers, that financial company is constantly bringing new products to market. Now, if you're bringing new products to market, if you think about the United States, you have to, you have to make sure that you have, uh, supported the regulatory approval that's necessary for a product. So that product has to be able to go to the right investor. That product, if it's in a certain state, has to have oversight to it. So now you're, you're a Marketing team in a financial services organization that supported getting new product to market. And in a particular customer used to take them 63 days to go through all of the approvals necessary to just get content out the door. Now that they are effectively uh in taking the work, Planning the work, executing the work, reviewing the work and delivering the work digitally. That's down to eight days. >>And with the Martek platform, you have the data so you know what content you want to get out and you can make decisions. Much about. My big takeaway is you got the art of of of of marketing. And those were the marketing D. N. A. I don't have that, you know that that gene uh but it's intersecting with with the science and automation and the data and the workflows and driving efficiency and ultimately driving results in in revenue. So that's kind of my big takeaway from this conversation. But but Alex maybe you can give us your take away and then matt, you can bring us home. >>Yeah, I mean my takeaway is in this new economy, marketing is a is a tier one corporate activity. Marketing is a pure activity to manufacturing, to distribution to sales into finance. And every one of those disciplines are managed with a system. Marketing needs its own system because it's as important as any other organization. And so to me, David is no more complicated than that, that marketing is now as important as every other function and it needs to be manages every other function. And work front is the application that marketing manages the workflows in the business of marketing. >>Alright. Matt, give us your final thoughts please. >>Yeah, no, my final thought, building on what building what Alex said. So we've put together a joint point of view with with Adobe in with Work front called intelligent content transformation. Right? That is our strategic framework to help clients accelerate on this journey, both of delivering these amazing customer outcomes. But how we transform the processes within the marketing organization and I think you know that yes, you can continue to focus on delivering amazing digital experiences for customers. And it's absolutely critical and that's critical to revenue growth. But actually what's also critical is to drive efficiency in these workflows across the enterprise. Right? And that is not only going to enable the revenue growth is going to enable you to deliver on that promise, but it's also going to result in significant cost and efficiency improvements for these companies by focusing on marketing in the same way as we have done for procurement, transformation, supply chain transformation, finance transformation, HR transformation, right? There's a lot of effort garment into, into the efficiency of those work clothes. We've got to do the same for marketing. Um so massive opportunity, massive. It is >>massive. Every company has to in some way, shape or form, put high quality content in front of their customers to engage with them. Gentlemen, thanks so much for coming on the cube. Really appreciate your time. >>Yeah, Thanks for having us. >>All right, and thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Volonte for the Cube. You're watching IBM think 2021. The virtual edition. We're right back. >>Mhm.

>>live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's the Q covering Nutanix dot next 2019. Brought to you by Nutanix >>Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix dot Next here at the Bella Centre in the Copenhagen. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, coasting along side of stew, Minutemen were joined by Bala Coochie bottler >>Bhola. He is the VP GM Nutanix era and business critical lapse at Nutanix. Thanks so much for coming on the island. >>It's an honor to come here and talk to guys. >>So you were up on the main stage this morning. You did a fantastic job doing some demos for us. But up there you talked about your data, your days gold. And you said there are four p's thio the challenges of mining the burning process you want >>you want to go through >>those for our viewers? >>Definitely. So for every business, critical lab data is gold likely anam bigness for a lot of people are anyone. Now the question is like similar to how the gore gets processed and there's a lot of hazardous mining that happens and process finally get this processed gold. To me, the data is also very similar for business could collapse. Little database systems will be processed in a way to get the most efficient, elegant way of getting the database back data back. No. The four pains that I see for managing data businesses started provisioning even today. Some of his biggest companies that I talkto they take about 3 to 5 weeks toe provisions. A database. It goes from Infrastructure team. The ticket passes from infrastructure team, computer, networking stories, toe database team and the database administration team. That's number one silo. Number two is like proliferation, and it's very consistent, pretty much every big company I talkto there. How about 8 to 10 copies of the data for other analytics que year development staging Whatever it is, it's like over you take a photo and put it on. What Step and your friends download it. They're basically doing a coffee data. Essentially, that Fordham be becomes 40 and in no time in our what's up. It's the same thing that happens for databases, data bits gets cloned or if it's all the time. But this seemingly simple, simple operation off over Clone Copy copy paste operation becomes the most dreaded, complex long running error prone process. And I see that dedicated Devi is just doing Tony. That's another thing. And then lineage problem that someone is cloning the data to somewhere. I don't know where the data is coming from. Canister in The third pain that we talk about is the protection. Actually, to me it's like a number one and number two problem, but I was just putting it in the third. If you're running daily basis, and if you're running it for Mission critical data basis, your ability to restore the rhythm is to any point in time. It's an absolute must write like otherwise, you're not even calling The database. Question is, Are the technologies don't have this kind of production technology? Are they already taken care? They did already, but the question is on our new town expert from Are on Cloud platform. Can they be efficient and elegant? Can we can we take out some of the pain in this whole process? That's what we're talking about. And the last one is, ah, big company problem. Anyone who has dozens of databases can empathize with me how painful it is to patch how painful it is to get up get your complaints going to it. Holy Manager instead driven database service, this kind of stuff. So these are the four things that we actually think that if you solve them, your databases are one step. Are much a lot steps closer to database service. That's what I see >>Bala. It's interesting. You know, you spent a lot of time working for, you know, the big database company out there. There is no shortage of options out there for databases. When I talked to most enterprises, it's not one database they now have, you know, often dozens of databases that they have. Um so explain line. Now you know, there's still an unmet need in the marketplace that Nutanix is looking to help fill there. >>So you're absolutely right on the dark that there are lots of date of this technology is actually that compounds the problem because all these big enterprise companies that are specially Steadman stations for Oracle Post Grace may really be my sequel sequel administrator. Now they're new breed of databases in no sequel monger leave. You know, it's it's like Hardy Man is among really be somebody manage the Marta logics and stuff like that so no, we I personally eating their databases need to become seemed like Alex City. Right? So >>most of >>these banks and telcos all the company that we talk about data this is just a means to an end for them. So there should focus on the business logic. Creating those business value applications and databases are more like okay, I can just manage them with almost no touch Aghanistan. But whether these technologies that were created around 20 years back are there, there it kind of stopped. So that is what we're trying to talk about when you have a powerful platform like Nutanix that actually abstracts the stories and solve some of the fundamental problems for database upstream technologies to take advantage of. We combine the date of this FBI's the render A P s as well as the strength of the new tenants platform to give their simplicity. Essentially. So that's what I see. We're not inventing. New databases were trying to simplify the database. If that's what >>you and help make sure we understand that you know, Nutanix isn't just building the next great lock in, you know, from top to bottom. You know, Nutanix can provide it. But Optionality is a word that Nutanix way >>live and time by choice and freedom for the customers. In fact, I make this as one of the fundamental design principles, even for era we use. AP is provided with the database vendors, for example, for our men, we just use our men. AP is. We start the database in the backup, using our many years where we take that one day. It is the platform. Once the database in the backup more we're taking snapshots of the latest visit is pretty much like our men. Regan back up with a Miss based backup, essentially alchemist, so the customer is not locked in the 2nd 1 is if the customer wants to go to the other clothes are even other technologies kind of stuff? We will probably appear just kind of migrate. So that's one of the thing that I want to kind of emphasize that we're not here to lock in any customer. In fact, your choice is to work. In fact, I emphasize, if the customer has the the computer environment on the year six were more than happy weaken. Some 40 year six are his feet both are equal for us. All we need is the air weighs on era because it was is something that we leverage a lot off platform patent, uh, repentance of Nutanix technology that we're passing on the benefits canister down the road where we're trying to see is we'll have cyclists and AWS and DCP. And as you and customers can move databases from unpromising private cloud platform through hybrid cloud to other clusters and then they can bring back the data business. That's what we can to protect the customers. Investment. >>Yeah. I mean, I'm curious. Your commentary. When you go listen, toe the big cloud player out there. It's, you know, they tell you how many hundreds of thousands of databases they've migrated. When I talk to customers and they think about their workload, migrations are gonna come even more often, and it's not a one way thing. It's often it's moving around and things change. So can we get there for the database? Because usually it's like, Well, it isn't it easier for me to move my computer to my data. You know, data has gravity. You know, there's a lot of, you know, physics. Tell General today. >>See what what is happening with hyper killers is. They're asking the applications. Toby return against clothed native databases, obviously by if you are writing an application again, it's chlorinated. Databases say there are Are are are even DCP big table. You're pretty much locked technical because further obligation to come back down from there is no view. There's no big table on and there's no one around. Where is what we're trying to say is the more one APS, the oracles the sequels were trying to clarify? We're trying to bring the simplicity of them, so if they can run in the clover, they condone an art crime. So that's how we protect the investment, that there is not much new engineering that needs to be done for your rafts as is, we can move them. Only thing is, we're taking or the pain off mobility leveraging all platform. So obviously we can run your APS, as is Oracle applications on the public lower like oracle, and if you feel like you want to do it on on from, we can do it on the impromptu canister so and to protect the investment for the customers, we do have grown feeling this man, That means that you can How did a bee is running on your ex editor and you can do capacity. Mediation means tier two tier three environments on Nutanix using our time mission technology. So we give the choicest customers >>So thinking about this truly virtualized d be what is what some of the things you're hearing from customers here a dot next Copenhagen. What are the things that you were they there, There there Pain points. I mean, in addition to those four peas. But what are some of the next generation problems that you're trying to solve here? >>So that first awful for the customers come in acknowledges way that this is a true database. Which letters? I don't know what happened is what tradition is all aboard compute. And when when he saw the computer watch logician problem you threw in database server and then try to run the databases. You're not really solving the problem of the data? No, With Nutanix, our DNA is in data. So we have started our pioneered the storage, which location and then extended to the files and objects. Now we're extending into database making that application Native Watch Ladies database for dilation, leveraging the story published Combining that with Computer. What's litigation? We think that we have made an honest effort to watch less data basis. Know the trend that I see is Everyone is moving. Our everyone wants cloudlike experience. It's not like they want to go to club, but they want the cloud like agility, that one click simplicity, consumer, great experience for the data basis, I would liketo kind of manage my data basis in self service matter. So we took both these dimensions. We made a great we made an honest effort to make. The databases are truly watch list. That's the copy data management and olive stuff and then coupled with how cloud works able to tow provisions. Self service way ability to manage your backups in self service. Weigh heavily to do patch self service fair and customers love it, and they want to take us tow new engines. One of the other thing that we see beget Bronte's with ERA is Chloe's. Olive or new databases generally are the post press and the cancer, but there's a lot of data on site because there's a lot of data on Mississippi. Honey, there's a lot of data on TV, too. Why don't we enjoy the same kind of experience for those databases? What? What did they do wrong? So can we >>give >>those experience the cloud like experience and then true? Watch allegation for those databases on the platform. That's what customers ask What kind of stuff. Obviously, they will have asked for more and more, um, br kind of facilities and other stuff that way there in the road map that we will be able to take it off. One >>of the questions we've had this week as Nutanix build out some of these application software not just infrastructure software pieces, go to market tends to be a little bit different. We had an interesting conversation with the Pro. They're wrapping the service for a row so that that seems like a really good way to be able to reach customers that might not even knew no Nutanix tell us, you know, how is that going? Is there an overlay? Salesforce's it? Some of the strategic channel and partnership engagements, you know, because this is not the traditional Nutanix, >>So obviously Nutanix is known. Andi made its name and fame for infrastructure as service. So it's really a challenge to talk about database language for our salespeople. But country that I heard the doubt when I kind of started my journey It Nutanix Okay, we will build a product. But how are you going to the city? And we get off this kind of sales for But believe me, we're making multimillion dollar deals mainly led by the application Native Miss our application centric nous so I could talk about federal governments. And yes, she made perches because it was a different station for them. We're talking about big telco company in Europe trying to replace their big Internet appliances because era makes the difference vanished. We're providing almost two X value almost half the price. So the pain point is real. Question is, can we translate their token reconnect with the right kind of customer? So we do have a cell so early for my division. They speak database language. Obviously we're very early in the game, so we will have selected few people in highly dense are important geographic regions who after that, but I also work with channels, work with apartments like geniuses like we prove head steal another kind of stuff and down the best people to leverage and take this holding and practice. This is the solution. In fact, companies like GE S D s is like people take an offer. Managed database seven. Right. So we have a product. People can build a cloud with it. But with the pro they can offer in a word, why do you want to go to public Lower? I can provide the same cloud. Man is database service more on our picks, Mortal kind of stuff. So we're kind of off fighting on all cylinders in this sense, but very selectively very focused. And I really believe that customers fill understand this, Mrs, that Nutanix is not just the infrastructure, but it's a cloud. It's a It's a club platform where I considered arise like Microsoft Office Suite on Microsoft's operating system. Think about that. That's the part off full power that we think that I can make make it happen >>and who are you know, you said you're going in very tight. Who are these Target customers without naming names? But what kinds of businesses are they? You know? How big are they? What kinds of challenges. Are >>they looking at all? The early customers were hardly in the third quarter of the business, but five. Financial sector is big. The pain point of data mismanagement is so acute there capacity limitation is a huge thing. They are spending hundreds of millions of dollars on this big. When that kind of stuff on can they run in the can extract efficiencies out of this hole all their investment. Second thing is manufacturing and tell Cole, and obviously federal is one of the biggest friend of Nutanix and I happened to pitch in and religions is loaded. And they said, Israel, let's do it real demo. And then let's make it happen. They actually tested the product and there are taking it. So the e r piece, where are they? Run Oracle, Where the run big sequence kind of stuff. This is what we're seeing. It >>followed. Wanna make sure there was a bunch of announcements about era tudo Otto, Just walk us through real quick kind of where we are today. And what should we be looking for? Directionally in the future. >>So we started out with four are five engines. Basically, Andi, you know that Oracle sequel and my sequel post this kind of stuff, and we attacked on four problems this provisioning patching copy, data management and then production. But when we talked to all these customers on, I talked to see Ables and City Walls. They love it. They wanted to say that Hey, Kanna, how around more engines? Right? So that's one will live. But more importantly, they do have practices. They have their closest vehicles that they want to have single pane of management, off era managing data basis across. So the multi cluster capability, what we call that's like equal and a prison central which manage multiple excesses. They weren't error to manage multiple clusters that manage daily basis, right? That's number one. That's big for a product with in one year that we regard to that stage. Second thing was, obviously, people and press customers expect rule rule based access control. But this is data, so it's not a simple privilege, and, uh, you would define the roles and religious and then get it over kind of stuff. You do want to know who is accessing the data, whether they can access the data and where they can accident. We want to give them freedom to create clones and data kind of act. Give the access to data, but in a country manor so they can clone on their cure. Clusters there need to file a huge big ticket with Wait for two weeks. They can have that flexibility, but they can manage the data at that particular fear class. So this is what we call D a M Data access management. It's like a dam on the like construct on the river, control flow of the water and then channel is it to the right place and right. But since Canister, so that's what we're trying to do for data. That's the second big thing that we look for in the attitude. Otto. Obviously, there's a lot off interest on engines. Expand both relation in Cecil has no sequel are We are seeing huge interest in recipe. Hannah. We're going to do it in a couple of months. You'll have take review monger. Dubious. The big big guy in no sequel space will expand that from long. Would it be to march logic and other stuff, But even D B two insiders There's a lot of interest. I'm just looking for committed Customers were, weren't They are willing to put the dollars on the table, and we're going to rule it out. That's the beauty of fair that we're not just talking about. Cloud native databases Just force Chris and kind of stuff. What? All this innovation that happened in 30 40 years, we can we can renew them to the New Age. Afghanistan. >>Great. Well, Bala, thank you so much for coming on. The Cuba was >>Thank you. >>I'm Rebecca Knight for stew minimum. Stay tuned. For more of the cubes. Live coverage of Nutanix dot next.

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube, covering pure storage. Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin Day Volante is my co host were a pure accelerate 2019 in Austin, Texas. A couple of guests joining us. Next. Please welcome Barack elected director product management for slunk. Welcome back to the Cube. Thank you. And guess who's back. Von Stewart. V. P. A. Technology from pure Avon. Welcome back. >> Hey, thanks for having us guys really excited about this topic. >> We are too. All right, so But we'll start with you. Since you're so excited in your nice orange pocket square is peeking out of your jacket there. Talk about the Splunk, your relationship. Long relationship, new offerings, joint value. What's going on? >> Great set up. So Splunk impure have had a long relationship around accelerating customers analytics The speed at which they can get their questions answered the rate at which they could ingest data right to build just more sources. Look at more data, get faster time to take action. However, I shouldn't be leading this conversation because Split Split has released a new architecture, a significant evolution if you will from the traditional Splunk architectural was built off of Daz and a shared nothing architecture. Leveraging replicas, right? Very similar what you'd have with, like, say, in H D. F s Work it load or H c. I. For those who aren't in the analytic space, they've released the new architecture that's disaggregated based off of cashing and an object store construct called Smart Store, which Broth is the product manager for? >> All right, tell us about that. >> So we release a smart for the future as part of spunk Enterprise. $7 to about a near back back in September Timeframe. Really Genesis or Strong Smart Strong goes back to the key customer problem that we were looking to solve. So one of our customers, they're already ingesting a large volume of data, but the need to retain the data for twice, then one of Peter and in today's architecture, what it required was them to kind of lean nearly scale on the amount of hardware. What we realized it. Sooner or later, all customers are going to run into this issue. But if they want in just more data or reading the data for longer periods, of time, they're going to run into this cost ceiling sooner or later on. The challenge is that into this architecture, today's distributes killer dark picture that we have today, which of all, about 10 years back, with the evolution of the Duke in this particular architecture, the computer and story Jacqui located. And because computer storage acqua located, it allows us to process large volumes of data. But if you look at the demand today, we can see that the demand for storage or placing the demand for computer So these are, too to directly opposite trans that we're seeing in the market space. If you need to basically provide performance at scale, there needs to be a better model. They need a better solution than what we had right now. So that's the reason we basically brought Smart store on denounced availability last September. What's Marceau brings to the table is that a D couples computer and storage, So now you can scale storage independent of computers, so if you need more storage or if you need to read in for longer periods of time, you can just kill independent on the storage and with level age, remote object stores like Bill Flash bid to provide that data depository. But most of your active data said still decides locally on the indexers. So what we did was basically broke the paradigm off computer storage location, and we had a small twist. He said that now the computer stories can be the couple, but you bring comfort and stories closer together only on demand. So that means that when you were running a radio, you know, we're running a search, and whenever the data is being looked for that only when we bring the data together. The other key thing that we do is we have an active data set way ensure that the smart store has ah, very powerful cash manager that allows that ensures that the active data set is always very similar to the time when your laptop, the night when your laptop has active data sets always in the cash always on memory. So very similar to that smarts for cash allows you to have active data set always locally on the index. Start your search performance is not impact. >> Yes, this problem of scaling compute and storage independently. You mentioned H. D. F s you saw it early on there. The hyper converged guys have been trying to solve this problem. Um, some of the database guys like snowflakes have solved it in the cloud. But if I understand correctly, you're doing this on Prem. >> So we're doing this board an on Prem as well as in Cloud. So this smart so feature is already available on tramp were also already using a host all off our spun cloud deployments as well. It's available for customers who want obviously deploy spunk on AWS as well. >> Okay, where do you guys fit in? So we >> fit in with customers anywhere from on the hate say this way. But on the small side, at the hundreds of terabytes up into the tens and hundreds of petabytes side. And that's really just kind of shows the pervasiveness of Splunk both through mid market, all the way up through the through the enterprise, every industry and every vertical. So where we come in relative to smart store is we were a coat co developer, a launch partner. And because our object offering Flash Blade is a high performance object store, we are a little bit different than the rest of the Splunk s story partner ecosystem who have invested in slow more of an archive mode of s tree right, we have always been designed and kind of betting on the future would be based on high performance, large scale object. And so we believe smart store is is a ah, perfect example, if you will, of a modern analytics platform. When you look at the architecture with smart store as brush here with you, you want to suffice a majority of your queries out of cash because the performance difference between reading out a cash that let's say, that's NAND based or envy. Emmy based or obtain, if you will. When you fall, you have to go read a data data out of the Objects store, right. You could have a significant performance. Trade off wean mix significantly minimized that performance drop because you're going to a very high bandwith flash blade. We've done comparison test with other other smart store search results have been published in other vendors, white papers and we show Flash blade. When we run the same benchmark is 80 times faster and so what you can now have without architecture is confidence that should you find yourself in a compliance or regulatory issue, something like Maybe GDP are where you've got 72 hours to notify everyone who's been impacted by a breach. Maybe you've got a cybersecurity case where the average time to find that you've been penetrated occurs 206 days after the event. And now you gotta go dig through your old data illegal discovery, you know, questions around, you know, customer purchases, purchases or credit card payments. Any time where you've got to go back in the history, we're gonna deliver those results and order of magnitude faster than any other object store in the market today. That translates from ours. Today's days, two weeks, and we think that falls into our advantage. Almost two >> orders of magnitude. >> Can this be Flash Player >> at 80%? Sorry, Katie. Time 80 x. Yes, that's what I heard. >> Do you display? Consider what flashlight is doing here. An accelerant of spunk, workloads and customer environment. >> Definitely, because the forward with the smart, strong cash way allow high performance at scale for data that's recites locally in the cash. But now, by using a high performance object store like your flash played. Customers can expect the same high performing board when data is in the cash as well as invented sin. Remorseful >> sparks it. Interesting animal. Um, yeah, you have a point before we >> subjects. Well, I don't want to cut you off. It's OK. So I would say commenting on the performance is just part of the equation when you look at that, UM, common operational activities that a splitting, not a storage team. But a Splunk team has to incur right patch management, whether it's at the Splunk software, maybe the operating system, like linen store windows, that spunk is running on, or any of the other components on side on that platform. Patch Management data Re balancing cause it's unequal. Equally distributed, um, hardware refreshes expansion of the cluster. Maybe you need more computer storage. Those operations in terms of time, whether on smart store versus the classic model, are anywhere from 100 to 1000 times faster with smart store so you could have a deployment that, for example, it takes you two weeks to upgrade all the notes, and it gets done in four hours when it's on Smart store. That is material in terms of your operational costs. >> So I was gonna say, Splunk, we've been watching Splunk for a long time. There's our 10th year of doing the Cube, not our 10th anniversary of our 10th year. I think it will be our ninth year of doing dot com. And so we've seen Splunk emerged very cool company like like pure hip hip vibe to it. And back in the day, we talked about big data. Splunk never used that term, really not widely in its marketing. But then when we started to talk about who's gonna own the big data, that space was a cloud era was gonna be mad. We came back. We said, It's gonna be spunk and that's what's happened. Spunk has become a workload, a variety of workloads that has now permeated the organization, started with log files and security kind of kind of cumbersome. But now it's like everywhere. So I wonder if you could talk to the sort of explosion of Splunk in the workloads and what kind of opportunity this provides for you guys. >> So a very good question here, Right? So what we have seen is that spunk has become the de facto platform for all of one structure data as customers start to realize the value of putting their trying to Splunk on the watch. Your spunk is that this is like a huge differentiate of us. Monk is the read only skim on reed which allows you to basically put all of the data without any structure and ask questions on the flight that allows you to kind of do investigations in real time, be more reactive. What's being proactive? We be more proactive. Was being reactive scaleable platform the skills of large data volumes, highly available platform. All of that are the reason why you're seeing an increase that option. We see the same thing with all other customers as well. They start off with one data source with one use case and then very soon they realize the power of Splunk and they start to add additional use cases in just more and more data sources. >> But this no >> scheme on writer you call scheme on Reed has been so problematic for so many big data practitioners because it just became the state of swamp. >> That didn't >> happen with Splunk. Was that because you had very defined use cases obviously security being one or was it with their architectural considerations as well? >> They just architecture, consideration for security and 90 with the initial use cases, with the fact that the scheme on Reid basically gives open subject possibilities for you. Because there's no structure to the data, you can ask questions on the fly on. You can use that to investigate, to troubleshoot and allies and take remedial actions on what's happening. And now, with our new acquisitions, we have added additional capabilities where we can talk, orchestrate the whole Anto and flow with Phantom, right? So a lot of these acquisitions also helping unable the market. >> So we've been talking about TAM expansion all week. We definitely hit it with Charlie pretty hard. I have. You know, I think it's a really important topic. One of things we haven't hit on is tam expansion through partnerships and that flywheel effect. So how do you see the partners ship with Splunk Just in terms of supporting that tam expansion the next 10 years? >> So, uh, analytics, particularly log and Alex have really taken off for us in the last year. As we put more focus on it, we want to double down on our investments as we go through the end of this year and in the next year with with a focus on Splunk um, a zealous other alliances. We think we are in a unique position because the rollout of smart store right customers are always on a different scale in terms of when they want to adopt a new architecture right. It is a significant decision that they have to make. And so we believe between the combination of flash array for the hot tear and flash played for the cold is a nice way for customers with classic Splunk architecture to modernize their platform. Leverage the benefits of data reduction to drive down some of the cost leverage. The benefits of Flash to increase the rate at which they can ask questions and get answers is a nice stepping stone. And when customers are ready because Flash Blade is one of the few storage platforms in the market at this scale out band with optimized for both NFS and object, they can go through a rolling nondestructive upgrade to smart store, have you no investment protection, and if they can't repurpose that flash rate, they can use peers of service to have the flesh raise the hot today and drop it back off just when they're done within tomorrow. >> And what about C for, you know, big workloads, like like big data workloads. I mean, is that a good fit here? You really need to be more performance oriented. >> So flash Blade is is high bandwith optimization, which really is designed for workload. Like Splunk. Where when you have to do a sparse search, right, we'll find that needle in the haystack question, right? Were you breached? Where were you? Briefed. How were you breached? Go read as much data as possible. You've gotta in just all that data, back to the service as fast as you can. And with beast Cloud blocked, Teresi is really optimized it a tear to form of NAND for that secondary. Maybe transactional data base or virtual machines. >> All right, I want more, and then I'm gonna shut up sick. The signal FX acquisition was very interesting to me for a lot of reasons. One was the cloud. The SAS portion of Splunk was late to that game, but now you're sort of making that transition. You saw Tableau you saw Adobe like rip the band Aid Off and it was somewhat painful. But spunk is it. So I wonder. Any advice that you spend Splunk would have toe von as pure as they make that transition to that sass model. >> So I think definitely, I think it's going to be a challenging one, but I think it's a much needed one in there in the environment that we are in. The key thing is to always because two more focus and I'm sure that you're already our customer focus. But the key is key thing is to make sure that any service is up all the time on make sure that you can provide that up time, which is going to be crucial for beating your customers. Elise. >> That's good. That's good guidance. >> You >> just wanted to cover that for you favor of keeping you date. >> So you gave us some of those really impressive stats In terms of performance. >> They're almost too good to be true. >> Well, what's customer feedback? Let's talk about the real world when you're talking to customers about those numbers. What's the reaction? >> So I don't wanna speak for Broth, so I will say in our engagements within their customer base, while we here, particularly from customers of scale. So the larger the environment, the more aggressive they are to say they will adopt smart store right and on a more aggressive scale than the smaller environments. And it's because the benefits of operating and maintaining the indexer cluster are are so great that they'll actually turn to the stores team and say, This is the new architecture I want. This is a new storage platform and again. So when we're talking about patch management, cluster expansion Harbor Refresh. I mean, you're talking for a large sum. Large installs weeks, not two or 3 10 weeks, 12 weeks on end so it can be. You can reduce that down to a couple of days. It changes your your operational paradigm, your staffing. And so it has got high impact. >> So one of the message that we're hearing from customers is that it's far so they get a significant reduction in the infrastructure spent it almost dropped by 2/3. That's really significant file off our large customers for spending a ton of money on infrastructure, so just dropping that by 2/3 is a significant driver to kind of move too smart. Store this in addition to all the other benefits that get smart store with operational simplicity and the ability that it provides. You >> also have customers because of smart store. They can now actually bursts on demand. And so >> you can think of this and kind of two paradigms, right. Instead of >> having to try to avoid some of the operational pain, right, pre purchase and pre provisional large infrastructure and hope you fill it up. They could do it more of a right sides and kind of grow in increments on demand, whether it's storage or compute. That's something that's net new with smart store um, they can also, if they have ah, significant event occur. They can fire up additional indexer notes and search clusters that can either be bare metal v ems or containers. Right Try to, you know, push the flash, too. It's Max. Once they found the answers that they need gotten through. Whatever the urgent issues, they just deep provisionals assets on demand and return back down to a steady state. So it's very flexible, you know, kind of cloud native, agile platform >> on several guys. I wish we had more time. But thank you so much fun. And Deron, for joining David me on the Cube today and sharing all of the innovation that continues to come from this partnership. >> Great to see you appreciate it >> for Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin, and you're watching the Cube?

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue now Here's your host Day Volonte. >> Hello, everyone, this is David lot. They fresh fresh off the red eye from VM World 2019. And what I wanted to do was share with you some analysis that I've done with our friends at E. T. R. Enterprise Technology Research. We've begun introducing you to some of their data. They have this awesome database 4500 panel, a panel of 4500 end users end customers, and they periodically go out and do spending surveys. They've given me access to that spending data and what I wanted to do because because you had a number of companies announced this this quarter, I wanted to do a storage drill down so pure. Announced in late July, Del just announced yesterday late August. Netapp was mid August. HP was last week again late August, and IBM was mid July. So you have all these companies, some of which are pure plays like pure netapp. Others of you know, big systems companies on DSO. But nonetheless, I wanted to squint through the data and share with you the storage spending snapshot for the second half of 2019. So let's start with the macro. >> What you heard on the conference calls was some concern about the economy. There's no question that the tariffs are on people's minds, particularly those with large exposure exposure in China. I mean, Del obviously sells a lot of PCs in China, so they're very much concerned about that. IBM does a lot of business there, pure, really. 70% appears business roughly is North America, so they're not as exposed so But the macro is probably looks like about 2% GDP growth for the quarter i. D. C. Has the overall tech market growing at two ex GDP. Interestingly, a Gartner analyst told me in May on the Cube that there is no correlation between GDP and I t spend, which surprised me. Some people disagree with that, but But that surprised me. But nonetheless, we we still look at GDP and look at that ratio. Sometimes the other macro is component costs for years. For the storage business the last several years, NAND pricing has been a headwind. Supply has been down, it's kept prices up. It has kept all flash arrays more expensive relative to some of the spinning disc spread the brethren something that we thought would attenuate sooner. It finally has. Nan pricing is now a tailwind, so prices air coming down. What that does is it opens up new workloads that we're really kind of the domain of spinning disk before big data kind of workloads is an example. Not exclusively big data, but it just opens up more workloads for storage companies, particularly Flash Cos The other big macro we're seeing is people shifting to subscription models. They want to bring that cloud like model to the data wherever two lives on Prem in ah, hybrid environment in a public cloud and company storage companies trying to be that that data management plane across clouds, whether on prime it. And that's a That's a big deal for a lot of these companies. I'll talk a little bit more about that, so you're seeing this vision of a massively parallel, scalable distributed system play out >> where >> data stays where it lives. Edge on Prem Public Cloud and storage is really a key part of that. Obviously, that's where the data lives, but you're not seeing data move across clouds so much. What you are seeing is metadata, move and compute. Move to the data so that type of architecture is being set up. It's supported by architecture's, not the least of which are all flash, and so I want to get into it. >> Now I want to share with you some data on this slide. If you wouldn't mind bringing it up. Alex on spending momentum. So the title size spending moment of pure leads, the storage packs and what this shows is the vendor on the left hand side. And it essentially looks at the breakdown of the spending survey where e t r ask the buyers of the different companies products. What percent of the spending is going to go toward replacing? They're gonna replace the vendor. Are they gonna decrease? Spend. That's the bright red is replace. The sort of pinkish is decreased, the spending. The gray is flat. The sort of evergreen forest green is increase in the lime. Green is ad, so if you take the lime green in the forest, green ad and the grow on you subtract the rest. You get the net score, so the higher the net score, the better. you can see here that pure storage has the highest net score by far 48%. I'll show you some data later. That correlates to that when we pull out some of the data from the income statements. >> So this is Ah, the >> July 2019 spending intention surveys specifically asking relative to the second half what the spending intentions are. So this looks good for pure on again. I'll show you Cem, Cem Cem Income State income statement data that really affirms this Hewlett Packard Enterprise actually was pretty strong in the spending survey. Particularly nimble is growing HP Overall, the storage business was was down a little bit, I think, three points, but nimble was up 28%. So you're seeing some spending activity there. Netapp did not have a great quarter. They were down substantially. I'll show you that in a minute. On dhe, it looks like they've got some work to do. Deli M. C. I had a flat quarter. Dell has a such a huge install base. They're everywhere on DSO. Everybody wants a piece of their pie. Del. After the merger of the acquisition of the emcee, their storage share declined. They then bounce back. They had a much, much stronger year last year, and now it's sort of a dogfight with the rest. IBM IBM is in a major cycle shift. IBM storage businesses is heavily tied to its mainframe businesses. Mainframe business was way, way down, its overall systems. Business was down, even though power was up a little bit. But the mainframe is what drives the systems business, and it drags along a lot of storage. IBM has got a new mainframe announcement that it's got to get out. It's got a new high end storage announcement that it's got to get out, and it's really relying on that. So you can see here from the E T. R data, you know, pure way out ahead of the pack continues to gain share about over 1000 respondents to this. So a lot of shared accounts by shared accounts mean the number of accounts that that actually have some combination of multiple storage vendors. And so they were able to answer this 1068 respondents pure the clear winner here. Now let's put this into context. So the next slide I want to show you some of the key performance indicators from the June quarter off the income statements. >> So again you see, I get the vendor. The revenue for the quarter of the year to year growth for that quarter relative to last year. The gross margin in the free cash flow, just some of the key performance indicators that I'd like to look at. So look at pure Let's go, Let's go to the third column Look at growth pure 28% growth. Del flat 0% for this is just for storage. There's a storage growth. NETAPP down 16% end up in a bad quarter, HP down 3%. IBM down 21% Do due to the cycle that I discussed, You see the revenue, um, pure, growing very, very fast. But you know, from a small base or at 396 million versus compared that to Dell's 4.2 billion net APs 1,000,000,000 plus H p e. Almost a billion in IBM not nearly as large. And then look at the gross margin line. Pure is the industry's leading gross margin. It's just slightly above 69%. Dell is a blended that Asterix is a blended gross margin, so it includes PCs, servers, service's of V M wear, everything and, of course, storage. So now, when dehl was a public company before it went private, it's gross. Margins were in the high teens. So Del is in gross margin heaven with with both E, M C and V M wear now as part of its portfolio NetApp high gross margins of 67%. But that gross margin is largely driven by its gross margins from software and maintenance. And so that's a screen considerable contributor. Their product gross margins air in the mid fifties, kind of where I think E. M. C. Probably is these days. And when the emcee was a public company, it's gross. Margins were in the mid sixties, but then, as it was before, went private. I think it was dipping into the high fifties as I recall you CHP again, that's a blended gross margin, just roughly around 34%. I don't have as much visibility on their their storage gross margins. I would I would say they are below, in my view, what DMC and net out well below what Netapp would be on then IBM. That's again blended gross margin includes hardware. Software service is 47.4% probably half or more of IBM businesses. Professional service is on. IBM has, of course, a large software business as well. So and then the free cash flow you can see pure crushing it from the standpoint of of gaining share, I mean way, way ahead of the other market players, but only 14 million in free cash flow. So coming from a much, much smaller base, however pure, is purely focused on storage. So there are Andy. All their R and D is going into that storage space. DEL. Free cash flow very large. 3.4 billion that again is across the entire company. Net App. You can see 278 million h p e 648 million great quarter for HP from a free cash flow standpoint, I think year to date they're probably 838 140 million. So big Big quarter. For them. An IBM A 2.4 billion again. Dell, HP, IBM. That's across the company, as is the gross margin. So the the spending data from E. T. R. Really shows us that pure, strong Aziz showed you that very high net score and the intentions look strong, so I would suspect pure is going to continue to lead in the market share game. I don't see that changing. Certainly there's no evidence in the data. I think I think everybody else is in a sort of a dogfight del holding firm, you know, 0%. You'd like to see a little bit of growth out of that, but I think Del is actually, you know, Dell's key metric is, Are we growing faster than the market? That's that's they're sort of a primary criterion in metric for Dell is to grow faster than the overall market because that means you're growing some share. I think Del is comfortable with that. Della's gross margins actually were helped this this quarter by the fact that Dell server business was down 12%. There was a higher storage mix, so it propped up the margin a little bit. But again, generally speaking, it looks like pure is the market share winner here, but much, much smaller than the other guys. HB limbo very strong, and it shows up in the survey data from E T. R. And an IBM just needs to get a new product cycle out. So we'll come back. >> We'll take a look at this in in in in January and see how you know what it looked like and will continue to fall. Obviously, the income statement and the public reporting pure accelerate is coming up next month. Justin in mid September. I have no doubt, you know, pure has been first in a lot of different areas, right? They were first really all flash Ray. The only all flash. You're a company that ever reached escape velocity. They were they in Nutanix for the first kind of new $1,000,000,000 companies that people said would never have a billion dollar company. Pure is a pure play storage company, you know? Well, over a billion. Now, you know, they were first with that evergreen model. They made a lot of play there. You know, the first with envy, Emmy and first with the Nvidia relationships with Superior likes to be first. I have no doubt and accelerate next month down in Austin, curious that they picked Austin in Dell's backyard. I have no doubt that they're gonna have some other firsts at that show. Cuba be there watching just off of the emerald, the other big player here. Of course, that I'm not showing his v. San visa is very, very strong. You know, the D. E. T. Our data shows that, and certainly the data from the income statement shows of'em were NSX, the networking products, their cell phone to find network in their self defined storage of the the the V San. Very, very strong Pat Girl singer on the Cube. We asked him last week, Thio, take us through. So if someone has big memories and one of them was sort of East san, Excuse me. One of them was V San, and the board meeting at with Joe Tucci was on the Vienna where board really put a lot of pressure on Pat's and you can't do this to me. It's funny. Emcee had the shackles on the M, where for a number of years, but the shackles are off and visa is very, very strong. So these are some of the things we're keeping an eye on. Thanks for watching everybody busy day Volante, Cuban sites. We'll see you next time

>> from Cambridge, Massachusetts. It's three Cube covering M I T. Chief data officer and information quality Symposium 2019. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Welcome back. We're here to wrap up the M I T. Chief data officer officer, information quality. It's hashtag m i t CDO conference. You're watching the Cube. I'm David Dante, and Paul Gill is my co host. This is two days of coverage. We're wrapping up eyes. Our analysis of what's going on here, Paul, Let me let me kick it off. When we first started here, we talked about that are open. It was way saw the chief data officer role emerged from the back office, the information quality role. When in 2013 the CEO's that we talked to when we asked them what was their scope. We heard things like, Oh, it's very wide. Involves analytics, data science. Some CEOs even said Oh, yes, security is actually part of our purview because all the cyber data so very, very wide scope. Even in some cases, some of the digital initiatives were sort of being claimed. The studios were staking their claim. The reality was the CDO also emerged out of highly regulated industries financialservices healthcare government. And it really was this kind of wonky back office role. And so that's what my compliance, that's what it's become again. We're seeing that CEOs largely you're not involved in a lot of the emerging. Aye, aye initiatives. That's what we heard, sort of anecdotally talking to various folks At the same time. I feel as though the CDO role has been more fossilized than it was before. We used to ask, Is this role going to be around anymore? We had C I. Ose tell us that the CEO Rose was going to disappear, so you had both ends of the spectrum. But I feel as though that whatever it's called CDO Data's our chief analytics off officer, head of data, you know, analytics and governance. That role is here to stay, at least for for a fair amount of time and increasingly, issues of privacy and governance. And at least the periphery of security are gonna be supported by that CD a role. So that's kind of takeaway Number one. Let me get your thoughts. >> I think there's a maturity process going on here. What we saw really in 2016 through 2018 was, ah, sort of a celebration of the arrival of the CDO. And we're here, you know, we've got we've got power now we've got an agenda. And that was I mean, that was a natural outcome of all this growth and 90% of organizations putting sea Dios in place. I think what you're seeing now is a realization that Oh, my God, this is a mess. You know what I heard? This year was a lot less of this sort of crowing about the ascendance of sea Dios and Maura about We've got a big integration problem of big data cleansing problem, and we've got to get our hands down to the nitty gritty. And when you talk about, as you said, we had in here so much this year about strategic initiatives, about about artificial intelligence, about getting involved in digital business or customer experience transformation. What we heard this year was about cleaning up data, finding the data that you've got organizing it, applying meditator, too. It is getting in shape to do something with it. There's nothing wrong with that. I just think it's part of the natural maturation process. Organizations now have to go through Tiu to the dirty process of cleaning up this data before they can get to the next stage, which was a couple of three years out for most of >> the second. Big theme, of course. We heard this from the former head of analytics. That G s K on the opening keynote is the traditional methods have failed the the Enterprise Data Warehouse, and we've actually studied this a lot. You know, my analogy is often you snake swallowing a basketball, having to build cubes. E D W practitioners would always used to call it chasing the chips until we come up with a new chip. Oh, we need that because we gotta run faster because it's taking us hours and hours, weeks days to run these analytics. So that really was not an agile. It was a rear view mirror looking thing. And Sarbanes Oxley saved the E. D. W. Business because reporting became part of compliance thing perspective. The master data management piece we've heard. Do you consistently? We heard Mike Stone Breaker, who's obviously a technology visionary, was right on. It doesn't scale through this notion of duping. Everything just doesn't work and manually creating rules. It's just it's just not the right approach. This we also heard the top down data data enterprise data model doesn't works too complicated, can operationalize it. So what they do, they kick the can to governance. The Duke was kind of a sidecar, their big data that failed to live up to its promises. And so it's It's a big question as to whether or not a I will bring that level of automation we heard from KPMG. Certainly, Mike Stone breaker again said way heard this, uh, a cz well, from Andy Palmer. They're using technology toe automate and scale that big number one data science problem, which is? They spend all their time wrangling data. We'll see if that if that actually lives up >> to his probable is something we did here today from several of our guests. Was about the promise of machine learning to automate this day to clean up process and as ah Mark Ramsay kick off the conference saying that all of these efforts to standardize data have failed in the past. This does look, He then showed how how G s K had used some of the tools that were represented here using machine learning to actually clean up the data at G S. K. So there is. And I heard today a lot of optimism from the people we talked to about the capability of Chris, for example, talking about the capability of machine learning to bring some order to solve this scale scale problem Because really organizing data creating enterprise data models is a scale problem, and the only way you can solve that it's with with automation, Mike Stone breaker is right on top of that. So there was optimism at this event. There was kind of an ooh, kind of, ah, a dismay at seeing all the data problems they have to clean up, but also promised that tools are on the way that could do that. >> Yeah, The reason I'm an optimist about this role is because data such a hard problem. And while there is a feeling of wow, this is really a challenge. There's a lot of smart people here who are up for the challenge and have the d n a for it. So the role, that whole 360 thing. We talked about the traditional methods, you know, kind of failing, and in the third piece that touched on, which is really bringing machine intelligence to the table. We haven't heard that as much at this event. It's now front and center. It's just another example of a I injecting itself into virtually every aspect every corner of the industry. And again, I often jokes. Same wine, new bottle. Our industry has a habit of doing that, but it's cyclical, but it is. But we seem to be making consistent progress. >> And the machine learning, I thought was interesting. Several very guest spoke to machine learning being applied to the plumbing projects right now to cleaning up data. Those are really self contained projects. You can manage those you can. You can determine out test outcomes. You can vet the quality of the of the algorithms. It's not like you're putting machine learning out there in front of the customer where it could potentially do some real damage. There. They're vetting their burning in machine, learning in a environment that they control. >> Right, So So, Amy, Two solid days here. I think that this this conference has really grown when we first started here is about 130 people, I think. And now it was 500 registrants. This'd year. I think 600 is the sort of the goal for next year. Moving venues. The Cube has been covering this all but one year since 2013. Hope to continue to do that. Paul was great working with you. Um, always great work. I hope we can, uh we could do more together. We heard the verdict is bringing back its conference. You put that together. So we had column. Mahoney, um, had the vertical rock stars on which was fun. Com Mahoney, Mike Stone breaker uh, Andy Palmer and Chris Lynch all kind of weighed in, which was great to get their perspectives kind of the days of MPP and how that's evolved improving on traditional relational database. And and now you're Stone breaker. Applying all these m i. Same thing with that scale with Chris Lynch. So it's fun to tow. Watch those guys all Boston based East Coast folks some news. We just saw the news hit President Trump holding up jet icon contractors is we've talked about. We've been following that story very closely and I've got some concerns over that. It's I think it's largely because he doesn't like Bezos in The Washington Post Post. Exactly. You know, here's this you know, America first. The Pentagon says they need this to be competitive with China >> and a I. >> There's maybe some you know, where there's smoke. There's fire there, so >> it's more important to stick in >> the eye. That's what it seems like. So we're watching that story very closely. I think it's I think it's a bad move for the executive branch to be involved in those type of decisions. But you know what I know? Well, anyway, Paul awesome working with you guys. Thanks. And to appreciate you flying out, Sal. Good job, Alex Mike. Great. Already wrapping up. So thank you for watching. Go to silicon angle dot com for all the news. Youtube dot com slash silicon angles where we house our playlist. But the cube dot net is the main site where we have all the events. It will show you what's coming up next. We've got a bunch of stuff going on straight through the summer. And then, of course, VM World is the big kickoff for the fall season. Goto wicked bond dot com for all the research. We're out. Thanks for watching Dave. A lot day for Paul Gillon will see you next time.