(upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone. I'm John Furrier here in theCUBE, in Palo Alto for "CUBE Conversation" with Chris Jones, Director of Product Management at Platform9. I've got a series of questions, had a great conversation earlier. Chris, I have a couple questions for you, what do you think? >> Let's do it, John. >> Okay, how does Platform9 Solution, you- can it be used on any infrastructure anywhere, cloud, edge, on-premise? >> It can, that's the beauty of our control plane, right? It was born in the cloud, and we primarily deliver that SaaS, which allows it to work in your data center, on bare metal, on VMs, or with public cloud infrastructure. We now give you the ability to take that control plane, install it in your data center, and then use it with anything, or even in air gap. And that includes capabilities with bare metal orchestration as well. >> Second question. How does Platform9 ensure maximum uptime, and proactive issue resolution? >> Oh, that's a good question. So if you come to Platform nine we're going to talk about always on assurance. What is driving that is a system of three components around self-healing, monitoring, and proactive assistance. So our software will heal broken things on nodes, right? If something stops running that should be running, it will attempt to restart that. We also have monitoring that's deployed with everything. So you build a cluster in AWS, well, we put open source monitoring agents, that are actually Prometheus, on every single node. That means it's resilient, right? So if you lose a node, you don't lose monitoring. But that data importantly comes back to our control plane, and that's the control plane that you can put in your data center as well. That data is what alerts us, and you as a user, anytime of the day that something's going wrong. Let's say etcd latency, good example, etcd is going slow. We'll find out, we might not be able to take restorative action immediately, but we're definitely going to reach out and say,, "You have a problem, let's get ahead of this and let's prevent that from becoming a bigger problem." And that's what we're delivering. When we say always on assurance, we're talking about self-healing, we're talking about remote monitoring, we're talking about being proactive with our customers, not waiting for the phone call or the support desk ticket saying, "Oh we think something's not working." Or worse, the customer has an outage. >> Awesome. Thanks for sharing. Can you explain the process for implementing Platform9 within a company's existing infrastructure. >> Are we doing air gap, or on-prem or SaaS approached? SaaS approach I think is by far the easiest, right? We can build a dedicated Platform9 control plane instance in a manner of minutes, for any customer. So when we do a proof of concept or onboarding, we just literally put in an email address, put in the name you want for your fully qualified domain name, and your instance is up. From that point onwards, the user can just log in, and using our CLI, talk to any number of, say, virtual machines, or physical servers in their environment for, you know, doing this in a data center or colo, and say, "I want these to be my Kubernetes control plane nodes. Here's the five of them. Here's the VIP for the load balancing, the API server and here are all of my compute nodes." And that CLI will work with the SaaS control plane, and go and build the cluster. That's as simple as it, CentOS, Ubuntu, just plain old operating system. Our software takes care of all the prerequisites, installing all the pieces, putting down MetalLB, CoreDNS, Metrics Server, Kubernetes dashboard, etcd backups. You built some servers. That's essentially what you've done, and the rest is being handled by Platform9. It's as simple as that. >> Great, thanks for that. What are the two traditional paths for companies considering the cloud native journey? The two paths. >> The traditional paths. I think that's your engineering team running so fast that before you even realize that you've got, you know, 10 EKS clusters. Or, hey, we can do this. You know, I've got the I can build it mentality. Let's go DIY completely open source Kubernetes on our infrastructure, and we're going to piecemeal build it all up together. They're, I think the pathways that people traditionally look at this journey, as opposed to having that third alternative saying can I just consume it on my infrastructure, be it cloud or on-premise or at the edge. >> Third is the new way, you guys do that. >> That's been our focus since the company was, you know, brought together back in the open OpenStack days. >> Awesome, what's the makeup of your customer base? Is there a certain pattern to the size or environments that you guys work with? Is there a pattern or consistency to your customer base? >> It's a spread, right? We've got large enterprises like Juniper, and we go all the way down to people with 20, 30, 50 nodes in total. We've got people in banking and finance, we've got things all the way through to telecommunications and storage infrastructure. >> What's your favorite feature of Platform9? >> My favorite feature? You know, if I ask, should I say this as a pre-sales engineer, let me show you a favorite thing. My immediate response is, I should never do this. (John laughs) To me it's just being able to define my cluster and say, go. And in five minutes I have that environment, I can see everything that's running, right? It's all unified, it's one spot, right? I'm a cluster admin. I said I wanted three control plane, 25 workers. Here's the infrastructure, it creates it, and once it's built, I can see everything that's running, right? All the applications that are there. One UI, I don't have to go click around. I'm not trying to solve things or download things. It's the fact that it's unified and just delivered in one hit. >> What is the one thing that people should know about Platform9 that they might not know about it? >> I think it's that we help developers and engineers as much as we can help our operations teams. I think, for a long time we've sort of targeted that user and said, hey, we, we really help you. It's like, but why are they doing this? Why are they building any infrastructure or any cloud platform? Well, it's to run applications and services, to help their customers, but how do they get there? There's people building and writing those things, and we're helping them, right? For the last two years, we've been really focused on making it simple, and I think that's an important thing to know. >> Chris, thanks so much, appreciate it. >> Yeah, thank you, John. >> Okay, that's theCUBE Q&A session here with Platform9. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. (light music)

The Cube presents UI Path Forward five. Brought to you by UI Path. >>We're back at forward five UI Paths, Big customer event. We're here in the Venetian, formerly the Sands Convention Center, Dave Ante and David Nicholson. Javier Castanos is here. He's the Robot Factory director. How's that for a title for Orange ESP Spania. And he's joined by Niva Pillow, who is Senior Director of Telecommunications Industry at UiPath. Folks, welcome to the Cube. Thank you. Thanks for coming on, Javier. Just off the keynote, it was really amazing to see what you were doing with your dashboard, how much you've operationalized automation, you really far down the journey. But I wanna start with your title. I've never seen this before. Robot Factory director, that's unique. What is that all about? >>Yeah, the Robot Factory is our brand to create the RPA journey to involve all the company in this amazing story regarding automation, because for us, automation is only a piece of the digital transformation and the culture transformation for the employees. >>Your robot factory obviously builds robots. Yeah. For employees and employees build them as well. >>Yeah, both. We have two different ways to, to build robots. We have a citizen developer program with more than 500 and employees certified in UiPath technology, and they build a small robot for the daily task for avoid repetitive task, very board. And in the other hand we have the robot factory team automating the business. The core business processes very complex in the telco industry, you know, and both teams working together, the community of employees, the best ambassadors for to find new opportunities and for discovery for robots and the robot factory are automating real complex processes to impacting our customer satisfaction. >>So if a, if a, if a citizen developer develops a robot, does the factory then have to audit it and make sure it's governed? Or do you add a, maybe I'm not such a good developer. Do you make it better? How does that collaboration work? >>The good thing is with you at Pat, you don't need to be a tech guy. You, you can be a finance guy and every morning you need a report, create an Excel, create a graph, put in a power point and send to your box. And you can create by your own a robot doing that task and going to the bending to take a coffee in, in the meantime that the robot is working. And as soon as you discover in your domain a complex tax, you can call us and say, Hey guys, I need your job because we need to ize this process. You need traceability. And we have a big savings below the desk. It's not only my health, it's the area work. >>Now, Navage, you specialize in the telecommunications industry. Now of course, the telcos are going through a massive transformation. It's almost, I call it revenge. The, the telcos now they're coming back with 5g. It's gonna be a great new future. But what kind of patterns are you seeing in the industry for automation? >>Sure. Look, as you said, telecoms going through quite a transformational era. There's this huge demand for connectivity around the whole world, and that presents opportunities and some challenges. But the key areas of focus right now is really helping the telecom achieve their strategic goals. And they include the customer experience at the most significant point, and thereafter driving a few more efficiencies and improving the employee experience. But organizations like Orange, you know, they start with the customer experience. These are large areas, but they tend to be the patterns where we are really helping telecoms transform and deliver better outcomes. >>Javi, I'm I'm curious about the concept of the citizen developer. Now you said that they don't have to have a deep technical background and they may come from finance or other places, but how do you, how do you recruit these people? What's in it for them? I, I can understand automating a process that is repetitive, mundane, something they don't want to do. But is there ever a concern that they might be automating themselves out of a job? >>Yeah, the, the people use Dex Excel and 30 years ago, Dex Excel does not assist and change our work. Your iPad technology is more or less the same. It's changing the way that you are working with your desktop every morning. You can create for your daily task a robot by yourself and executing your corporate desktop. And then you can save this time or use to improve your satisfaction as employee. Because sometimes in, in, in this kind of companies, we have a telecommunications engineering with a lot of talent making repetitive task. And with this technology, you can use your talent only to improve the processes. So we train these people in Miami, the training is very easy. A robot enter on the web searching, Google make different search regarding prices on, on device creates an Excel and only in a few hours that kind of people that we have in all companies that very easy excel some macros and these kind of things is the people prepared to jump to the next step to the robotization. So in all areas, in all departments, there are people prepared. In our company, 500 people. >>I, I'd like to get into a little mini case study if we could, and understand orange esp Spania is way deep. You should see this dashboard that Javier showed. I mean it's amazing, I think you said 7 million euro business benefit so far to date. But you can slice it and dice it and look at a lot of different angles. But where did you get started? Did you get started? Was it a bottoms up? In other words, an individual started to automate on their desktop. Was it a top down? The, the, the CEO said this is, we're gonna automate. How did it, I mean I'm sure you get this question a lot nivo, but where did it start at Orange? >>Yeah. Our story is very linked with the finance department because the citizen developer are saving internal hours and transforming the employee satisfaction and improving the talent and the reskilling of the people. But in the other hand, from the efficiency point of view, if you look for, for the finance approach, what happened, we, we take one profit and now domain perhaps 80% of the process. And next month the invoice reduce because your external cost disappear because the robot is making the task is improving the satisfaction of the customers. Because sometimes we have a, a human back office or another kind of task. And the compliance, the, the SLAs, the, the, the delay on time with all the people disappear with the robots because the robots are working at night. We can and repeating the job, 1, 1 1. And every tracking of that task are controlled by finance. Because if you save in a transaction three minutes, when you multiply for a thousand, a thousand, thousand tasks, you save on real time, you can see how much money you are saving and making the the things better. Not only a question of money is a question of money, but a attempt below that the customer is, is taking better experience for us. >>Robots don't sleep Nova. >>I never, >>So you started in finance and how much have you gone permeated other parts of the organization? What other parts of the organization are adopting RPA and automation? Where are you on that journey? >>More or less? Our eight, nine hundred and fifty three FTS equivalent robots working okay's like a contact center. It's robots navigating through the user interface applications, making transactions for our customers. So when you put in the middle of your customer relation, you can transform all because if a human agent is making a very complex process for, because telco is a complex market and very fast, perhaps the robot can help the human agent saving time and taking advantage of that part of, of the operations. And at the end, the operation is short and the customer satisfaction is better. And we measure the MPAs, the net, the net promoter score. And when you combine human agents with robots, the satisfaction improve because the transaction is made on real time very fast and doesn't fail. >>Is this a common story nivas that you're seeing in Telco in terms of the, the starting points? Does it tend to be bottoms up? Does it more top down? What are you seeing in >>Look, it actually varies by telecom. You know, Orange started their journey with us four years ago. So companies that have started while they tend to start in finance or IT or, or hr, but the customer experience I think is the ultimate area where many telecoms focus and what Harvey Edge just shared is it doesn't matter if a customer's calling you through a contact center or reaching you through a chatbot. They want their issue resolved at the first point. And what the robots do is they integrate information from multiple sources and provide that data to the agent so you can actually resolve the issue. And that is the beautiful example of humans and robots working together. Because if you know what the data's telling you, if it's a billing issue and a customer's been been billed because they have gone overseas and used international roaming and they weren't aware that the contract had that as a leader or a person in a contact center, you can make the right decision quite often. It takes a long time to find the data, but in this way you can actually address the issue real time, first point of resolution. And we're seeing up to 60% increase in first time resolutions across telecoms, irrespective of whether it's a chat bot or a contact center or a service desk. >>That's key. I mean, that's as a, that's consumer, that's what you just want to get off the phone or you want to get off the chat notice. So I have to ask you, what would you say is your secret to success? >>The secret is to be transparent with the organization, serve the savings and put on the table. We put on the table to the finance guys every month, all the robots that we put in production the month before and it's finance will declare officially the savings for each robot. As soon as you reach this, the credibility appear because it's not the robot factory team telling Aren, saving a lot of money of the company. No, no. It's the finance guys that trust on you. And as soon as you ask more money to buy more license or to improve the processes on whatever finance say, okay, these guys, as soon as we invest money in robots, we obtain twice or three times more by savings and they are improving not only for the quantity point of view, the quality is improving too. Because when you, a brief example, when you have a wifi problem connection and you call to our contact center, there is an ecosystem for more than 25 robots working from the beginning of your call, testing your line and making decisions. If we are going to send you a new router or you have a connectivity problem or, and the robot decide of, we are going to send to you a new install at your home and then the human manage you and take the conversation. But all the decisions are made by robots. So it's very powerful from the point of view of customer satisfaction. >>So what I'm hearing is you started four years ago. Yeah. And it, it, the ROI for your first instantiation was very fast, I presume inside of 12 months or what was the, how fast did you get a return with >>In the first three months we developed 25 robots and we saved more than 1 million to the company in three >>Months. In three months. Okay. So it was self-funding. >>Yeah. >>Right. You took that million dollars and you said, Okay, let's double down on that. Let's do it again. Do it again. Do it >>Again. It's only a question of resources and budget and only companies wants to create robots, but sometimes big companies only put on that one people to people. From the beginning of our story, we put 13 people and a budget. So if you have resources, the things happen be because the process are very accomplished. Sometimes you start one process. Sometimes our block, and we started at the beginning, a lot of process and imagine in telco we developed 900 processes, but every day we have a new opportunity for discovery. So I, I think the scalability is, is, is a challenge, but it's very, is possible if you put people and money >>And we, we focused on, we talk a lot in, in, in the broader IT world about the edge. And so I sort of think of these citizen developers as living at the edge. Part of your robot factory is at the core of the enterprise also. Is that, is that correct? Yes. >>Yes. >>Now what, what is, what has that looked like in terms of ROI cycles and development cycles? What kinds of projects do you work on at the core that are, that are different than what citizen soldiers are doing at the edge? >>Yeah. When, when we need to apply a discount or change your taif or switch on your bonus or your voicemail, that kind of transactions with impacting customers are made by the robot factory with robots made by the robot factory team. With a big traceability. With a big security because okay, with, with human awake the robot, we need to, to make a traceability because we have thousand of agents in the contact center working with robots and we have a lot of security disability and these kind of things. But in the other hand, internally we have a lot of task and a lot of processes for the citizen developers. There are very important tasks for the employee, perhaps not impacting in, in final customers, but we combine both. Because if you only work in one way, the citizen developer are making a lot of savings in terms of internal hours, but it's not real money. But in the other hand, you have the robot factory business processes impacting the money, combining both, you obtain the most powerful tool because the ambassadors, the, the, the employees are discovering you new opportunities. >>Last question, Javier, Why did you choose UiPath? What were the determining factors four years ago? >>Yeah, we, we were researching a lot in the market, but UiPath is pretty easy. You don't need to be an IT guy. People from, from customer care, people from finance in every areas. We have a lot of people learning this, this technology because it's easy, intuitive and very nice from the point of view of look and field. >>This a common story. This is really, we've reported on this a lot. This is how you UiPath really was able to get its foothold in the marketplace because of the simplicity. If you look at the legacy tools and even some of the modern tools, they were a lot more complicated. Now of course, UiPath is expanding its platform. So thank you very much. Don't welcome. Thank, thanks for coming. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. All right, you, you're gonna hear a lot of customer stories cuz that's what UI path brings in the cube. Proof is in the pudding. We right back at forward five from Las Vegas. Keep it right there.

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back everyone to theCUBE's coverage of VMware Explore '22, formerly VMworld. This is our 12th year covering it. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellente. Two sets, three days of wall-to-wall coverage. We're starting to get the execs rolling in from VMware. Sumit Dhawan, president of VMware's here. Great to see you. Great keynote, day one. >> Great to be here, John. Great to see you, Dave. Day one, super exciting. We're pumped. >> And you had no problem with the keynotes. We're back in person. Smooth as silk up there. >> We were talking about it. We had to like dust off a cobweb to make some of these inputs. >> It's not like riding a bike. >> No, it's not. We had about 40% of our agencies that we had to change out because they're no longer in business. So, I have to give kudos to the team who pulled it together. They did a fabulous job. >> You do a great check, great presentation. I know you had a lot to crack in there. Raghu set the table. I know this is for him, this was a big moment to lay out the narrative, address the Broadcom thing right out of the gate, wave from Hock Tan in the audience, and then got into the top big news. Still a lot of meat on the bone. You get up there, you got to talk about the use cases, vSphere 8, big release, a lot of stuff. Take us through the keynote. What was the important highlights for you to share, the folks watching that didn't see the keynote or wanted to get your perspective? >> Well, first of all, did any of you notice that Raghu was running on the stage? He did not do that in rehearsal. (John chuckles) I was a little bit worried, but he really did it. >> I said, I betcha that was real. (everyone chuckles) >> Anyways, the jokes aside, he did fabulous. Lays out the strategy. My thinking, as you said, was to first of all speak with their customers and explain how every enterprise is facing with this concept of cloud chaos that Raghu laid out and CVS Health story sort of exemplifies the situation that every customer is facing. They go in, they start with cloud first, which is needed, I think that's the absolutely right approach. Very quickly build out a model of getting a cloud ops team and a platform engineering team which oftentimes be a parallel work stream to a private cloud infrastructure. Great start. But as Roshan, the CIO at CVS Health laid out, there's an inflection point. And that's when you have to converge these because the use cases are where stakeholders, this is the lines of businesses, app developers, finance teams, and security teams, they don't need this stove piped information coming at 'em. And the converge model is how he opted to organize his team. So we called it a multi-cloud team, just like a workspace team. And listen, our commitment and innovations are to solve the problems of those teams so that the stakeholders get what they need. That's the rest of the keynote. >> Yeah, first of all, great point. I want to call out that inflection point comment because we've been reporting coming into VMworld with super cloud and other things across open source and down into the weeds and into the hood. The chaos is real. So, good call. I love how you guys brought that up there. But all industry inflection points, if you go back in history of the tech industry, at every single major inflection point, there was chaos, complexity, or an enemy proprietary. However you want to look at it, there was a situation where you needed to kind of reign in the chaos as Andy Grove would say. So we're at that inflection point, I think that's consistent. And also the ecosystem floor yesterday, the expo floor here in San Francisco with your partners, it was vibrant. They're all on this wave. There is a wave and an inflection point. So, okay. I buy that. So, if you buy the inflection point, what has to happen next? Because this is where we're at. People are feeling it. Some say, I don't have a problem but they're cut chaos such is the problem. So, where do you see that? How does VMware's team organizing in the industry and for customers specifically to solve the chaos, to reign it in and cross over? >> Yeah, you're a 100% right. Every inflection point is associated with some kind of a chaos that had to be reigned in. So we are focused on two major things right now which we have made progress in. And maybe third, we are still work in-progress. Number one is technology. Today's technology announcements are directly to address how that streamlining of chaos can be done through a cloud smart approach that we laid out. Our Aria, a brand new solution for management, significant enhancements to Tanzu, all of these for public cloud based workloads that also extend to private cloud. And then our cloud infrastructure with newer capabilities with AWS, Azure, as well as with new innovations on vSphere 8 and vSAN 8. And then last but not the least, our continuous automation to enable anywhere workspace. All these are simple innovation that have to address because without those innovations, the problem is that the chaos oftentimes is created because lack of technology and as a result structure has to be put in place because tooling and technology is not there. So, number one goal we see is providing that. Second is we have to be independent, provide support for every possible cloud but not without being a partner of theirs. That's not an easy thing to do but we have the DNA as a company, we have done that with data centers in the past, even though being part of Dell we did that in the data center in the past, we have done that in mobility. And so we have taken the challenge of doing that with the cloud. So we are continually building newer innovation and stronger and stronger partnerships with cloud provider which is the basis of our commercial relationships with Microsoft Azure too, where we have brought Azure VMware solution into VMware cloud universal. Again, that strengthens the value of us being neutral because it's very important to have a Switzerland party that can provide these multi-cloud solutions that doesn't have an agenda of a specific cloud, yet an ecosystem, or at least an influence with the ecosystem that can bring going forward. >> Okay, so technology, I get that. Open, not going to be too competitive, but more open. So the question I got to ask you is what is the disruptive enabler to make that happen? 'Cause you got customers, partners and team of VMware, what's the disruptive enabler that's going to get you to that level? >> Over the hump. I mean, listen, our value is this community. All this community has one of two paths to go. Either, they become stove piped into just the public-private cloud infrastructure or they step up as this convergence that's happening around them to say, "You know what? I have the solution to tame this multi-cloud complexity, to reign the chaos," as you mentioned because tooling and technologies are available. And I know they work with the ecosystem. And our objective is to bring this community to that point. And to me, that is the best path to overcome it. >> You are the connective tissue. I was able to sit into the analyst meeting today. You were sort of the proxy for CVS Health where you talked about the private that's where you started, the public cloud ops team, bringing that together. The platform is the glue. That is the connective tissue. That's where Tanzu comes in. That's where Aria comes in. And that is the disruptive technology which it's hard to build that. >> From a technology perspective, it's an enabler of something that has never been done before in that level of comprehensiveness, from a more of a infrastructure side thinking perspective. Yes, infrastructure teams have enabled self-service portals. Yes, infrastructure teams have given APIs to developers, but what we are enabling through Tanzu is completely next level where you have a lot richer experience for developers so that they never ever have to think about the infrastructure at all. Because even when you enable infrastructure as API, that's still an API of the infrastructure. We go straight to the application tier where they're just thinking about authorized set of microservices. Containers can be orchestrated and built automatically, shifting security left where we're truly checking them or enabling them to check the security vulnerabilities as they're developing the application, not going into the production when they have to touch the infrastructure. To me, that's an enabler of a special power that this new multi-cloud team can have across cloud which they haven't had in the past. >> Yeah, it's funny, John, I'd say very challenging technically. The challenge in 2010 was the software mainframe, remember the marketing people killed that term. >> Yeah, exactly. >> But you think about that. We're going to make virtualization and the overhead associated with that irrelevant. We're going to be able to run any workload and VMware achieved that. Now you're saying we run anything anywhere, any Kubernete, any container. >> That's the reality. That's the chaos. >> And the cloud and that's a new, real problem. Real challenging problem that requires serious engineering. >> Well, I mean it's aspirational, right? Let's get the reality, right? So true spanning cloud, not yet there. You guys, I think your vision is definitely right on in the sense that we'd like the chaos and multicloud's a reality. The question is AWS, Azure, Google Cloud, other clouds, they're not going to sit still. No one's going to let VMware just come up and take everything. You got to enable so the market- >> True, true. I don't think this is the case of us versus them because there is so much that they have to express in terms of the value of every cloud. And this happened in the case of, by the way, whether you go into infrastructure or even workspace solutions, as long as the richest of the experience and richest of the controls are provided, for their cloud to the developers that makes the adoption of their cloud simpler. It's a win-win for every party. >> That's the key. I think the simplest. So, I want to ask you, this comes up a lot and I love that you brought that up, simple and self-service has proven developers who are driving the change, cloud DevOps developers. They're driving the change. They're in charge more than ever. They want self-service, easier to deploy. I want a test, if I don't like it, I want to throw it away. But if I like something, I want to stick with it. So it's got to be self-service. Now that's antithetical to the old enterprise model of solve complexity with more complexity. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So the question for you is as the president of VMware, do you feel good that you guys are looking out over the landscape where you're riding into the valley of the future with the demand being automation, completely invisible, abstraction layer, new use case scenarios for IT and whatever IT becomes. Take us through your mindset there, because I think that's what I'm hearing here at this year, VMware Explorer is that you guys have recognized the shift in demographics on the developer side, but ops isn't going away either. They're connecting. >> They're connected. Yeah, so our vision is, if you think about the role of developers, they have a huge influence. And most importantly they're the ones who are driving innovation, just the amount of application development, the number of developers that have emerged, yet remains the scarcest resource for the enterprise are critical. So developers often time have taken control over decision on infrastructure and ops. Why? Because infrastructure and ops haven't shown up. Not because they like it. In fact, they hate it. (John chuckles) Developers like being developers. They like writing code. They don't really want to get into the day to day operations. In fact, here's what we see with almost all our customers. They start taking control of the ops until they go into production. And at that point in time, they start requesting one by one functions of ops, move to ops because they don't like it. So with our approach and this sort of, as we are driving into the beautiful valley of multi-cloud like you laid out, in our approach with the cross cloud services, what we are saying is that why don't we enable this new team which is a reformatted version of the traditional ops, it has the platform engineering in it, the key skill that enables the developer in it, through a platform that becomes an interface to the developers. It creates that secure workflows that developers need. So that developers think and do what they really love. And the infrastructure is seamless and invisible. It's bound to happen, John. Think about it this way. >> Infrastructure is code. >> Infrastructure has code, and even next year, it's invisible because they're just dealing with the services that they need. >> So it's self-service infrastructure. And then you've got to have that capability to simplified, I'll even say automated or computational governance and security. So Chris Wolf is coming on Thursday. >> Yeah. >> Unfortunately I won't be here. And he's going to talk about all the future projects. 'Cause you're not done yet. The project narrows, it's kind of one of these boring, but important. >> Yeah, there's a lot of stuff in the oven coming out. >> There's really critical projects coming down the pipeline that support this multi-cloud vision, is it's early days. >> Well, this is the thing that we were talking about. I want to get your thoughts on. And we were commenting on the keynote review, Hock Tan bought VMware. He's a lot more there than he thought. I mean, I got to imagine him sitting in the front row going there's some stuff coming out of the oven. I didn't even, might not have known. >> He'd be like, "Hmm, this extra value." (everyone chuckles) >> He's got to be pretty stoked, don't you think? >> He is, he is. >> There's a lot of headroom on the margin. >> I mean, independent to that, I think the strategy that he sees is something that's compelling to customers which is what, in my assessment, speaking with him, he bought VMware because it's strategic to customers and the strategic value of VMware becomes even higher as we take our multi-cloud portfolio. So it's all great. >> Well, plus the ecosystem is now re-energize. It's always been energized, but energized cuz it's sort of had to be, cuz it's such a strong- >> And there was the Dell history there too. >> But, yeah it was always EMC, and then Dell, and now it's like, wow, the ecosystem's- >> Really it's released almost. I like this new team, we've been calling this new ops kind of vibe going refactored ops, as you said, that's where the action's happening because the developers want to go faster. >> They want to go faster. >> They want to go fast cuz the velocity's paying off of them. They don't want to have to wait. They don't want security reviews. They want policy. They want some guardrails. Show me the track. >> That's it. >> And let me drive this car. >> That's it because I mean think about it, if you were a developer, listen, I've been a developer. I never really wanted to see how to operate the code in production because it took time away for developing. I like developing and I like to spend my time building the applications and that's the goal of Aria and Tanzu. >> And then I got to mention the props of seeing project Monterey actually come out to fruition is huge because that's the future of computing architecture. >> I mean at this stage, if a customer from here on is modernizing their infrastructure and they're not investing in a holistic new infrastructure from a hardware and software perspective, they're missing out an opportunity on leveraging the numbers that we were showing, 20% increase in calls. Why would you not just make that investment on both the hardware and the software layer now to get the benefits for the next five-six years. >> You would and if I don't have to make any changes and I get 20% automatically. And the other thing, I don't know if people really appreciate the new curve that the Silicon industry is on. It blows away the history of Moore's law which was whatever, 35-40% a year, we're talking about 100% a year price performance or performance improvements. >> I think when you have an inflection point as we said earlier, there's going to be some things that you know is going to happen, but I think there's going to be a lot that's going to surprise people. New brands will emerge, new startups, new talent, new functionality, new use cases. So, we're going to watch that carefully. And for the folks watching that know that theCUBE's been 12 years with covering VMware VMworld, now VMware Explore, we've kind of met everybody over the years, but I want to point out a little nuance, Raghu thing in the keynote. During the end, before the collective responsibility sustainment commitment he had, he made a comment, "As proud as we are," which is a word he used, there's a lot of pride here at VMware. Raghu kind of weaved that in there, I noticed that, I want to call that out there because Raghu's proud. He's a proud product guy. He said, "I'm a product guy." He's delivering keynote. >> Almost 20 years. >> As proud as we are, there's a lot of pride at VMware, Sumit, talk about that dynamic because you mentioned customers, your customer is not a lot of churn. They've been there for a long time. They're embedded in every single company out there, pretty much VMware is in every enterprise, if not all, I mean 99%, whatever percentage it is, it's huge penetration. >> We are proud of three things. It comes down to number one, we are proud of our innovations. You can see it, you can see the tone from Raghu or myself, or other executives changes with excitement when we're talking about our technologies, we're just proud. We're just proud of it. We are a technology and product centric company. The second thing that sort of gets us excited and be proud of is exactly what you mentioned, which is the customers. The customers like us. It's a pleasure when I bring Roshan on stage and he talks about how he's expecting certain relationship and what he's viewing VMware in this new world of multi-cloud, that makes us proud. And then third, we're proud of our talent. I mean, I was jokingly talking to just the events team alone. Of course our engineers do amazing job, our sellers do amazing job, our support teams do amazing job, but we brought this team and we said, "We are going to get you to run an event after three years from not they doing one, we're going to change the name on you, we're going to change the attendees you're going to invite, we're going to change the fact that it's going to be new speakers who have never been on the stage and done that kind of presentation. >> You're also going to serve a virtual audience. >> And we're going to have a virtual audience. And you know what? They embraced it and they surprised us and it looks beautiful. So I'm proud of the talent. >> The VMware team always steps up. You never slight it, you've got great talent over there. The big thing I want to highlight as we end this day, the segment, and I'll get your thoughts and reactions, Sumit, is again, you guys were early on hybrid. We have theCUBE tape to go back into the video data lake and find the word hybrid mentioned 2013, 2014, 2015. Even when nobody was talking about hybrid. >> Yeah, yeah. >> Multicloud, Raghu, I talked to Raghu in 2016 when he did the Pat Gelsinger, I mean Raghu, Pat and Andy Jassy. >> Yeah. >> When that cloud thing got cleared up, he cleared that up. He mentioned multicloud, even then 2016, so this is not new. >> Yeah. >> You had the vision, there's a lot of stuff in the oven. You guys make announcements directionally, and then start chipping away at it. Now you got Broadcom buys VMware, what's in the oven? How much goodness is coming out that's like just hitting the fruits are starting to bear on the tree. There's a lot of good stuff and just put that, contextualize and scale that for us. What's in the oven? >> First of all, I think the vision, you have to be early to be first and we believe in it. Okay, so that's number one. Now having said that what's in the oven, you would see us actually do more controls across cloud. We are not done on networking side. Okay, we announced something as project Northstar with networking portfolio, that's not generally available. That's in the oven. We are going to come up with more capability on supporting any Kubernetes on any cloud. We did some previews of supporting, for example, EKS. You're going to see more of those cluster controls across any Kubernetes. We have more work happening on our telco partners for enablement of O-RAN as well as our edge solutions, along with the ecosystem. So more to come on those fronts. But they're all aligned with enabling customers multi-cloud through these five cross cloud services. They're all really, some of them where we have put a big sort of a version one of solution out there such as Aria continuation, some of them where even the version one's not out and you're going to see that very soon. >> All right. Sumit, what's next for you as the president? You're proud of your team, we got that. Great oven description of what's coming out for the next meal. What's next for you guys, the team? >> I think for us, two things, first of all, this is our momentum season as we call it. So for the first time, after three years, we are now being in, I think we've expanded, explored to five cities. So getting this orchestrated properly, we are expecting nearly 50,000 customers to be engaging in person and maybe a same number virtually. So a significant touchpoint, cuz we have been missing. Our customers have departed their strategy formulation and we have departed our strategy formulation. Getting them connected together is our number one priority. And number two, we are focused on getting better and better at making customers successful. There is work needed for us. We learn, then we code it and then we repeat it. And to me, those are the two key things here in the next six months. >> Sumit, thank you for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for your valuable time, sharing what's going on. Appreciate it. >> Always great to have chatting. >> Here with the president, the CEO's coming up next in theCUBE. Of course, we're John and Dave. More coverage after the short breaks, stay with us. (upbeat music)

>>Hi, this is Dave Volonte. We're winding down Day two of the Cubes coverage of Vim on 2022. We're here at the area in Las Vegas. Myself and Dave Nicholson had been going for two days. Everybody's excited about the VM on party tonight. It's It's always epic, and, uh, it's a great show in terms of its energy. Danny Allen is here. He's cto of in his back. He gave the keynote this morning. I say, Danny, you know, you look pretty good up there with two hours of sleep. I >>had three. >>Look, don't look that good, but your energy was very high. And I got to tell you the story you told was amazing. It was one of the best keynotes I've ever seen. Even even the technology pieces were outstanding. But you weaving in that story was incredible. I'm hoping that people will go back and and watch it. We probably don't have time to go into it, but wow. Um, can you give us the the one minute version of that >>long story? >>Sure. Yeah. I read a book back in 2013 about a ship that sank off Portsmouth, Maine, and I >>thought, I'm gonna go find that >>ship. And so it's a long, >>complicated process. Five >>years in the making. But we used data, and the data that found the ship was actually from 15 years earlier. >>And in 20 >>18, we found the bow of the ship. We found the stern of the ship, but what we were really trying to answer was torpedoed. Or did the boilers explode? Because >>the navy said the boilers exploded >>and two survivors said, No, it was torpedoed or there was a German U boat there. >>And so >>our goal was fine. The ship find the boiler. >>So in 20 >>19, Sorry, Uh, it was 2018. We found the bow and the stern. And then in 2019, we found both boilers perfectly intact. And in fact, the rear end of that torpedo wasn't much left >>of it, of course, but >>data found that wreck. And so it, um, it exonerated essentially any implication that somebody screwed >>up in >>the boiler system and the survivors or the Children of the survivors obviously appreciated >>that. I'm sure. Yes, Several >>outcomes to it. So the >>chief engineer was one >>of the 13 survivors, >>and he lived with the weight of this for 75 years. 49 sailors dead because of myself. But I had the opportunity of meeting some of the Children of the victims and also attending ceremonies. The families of those victims received purple hearts because they were killed due to enemy action. And then you actually knew how to do this. I wasn't aware you had experience finding Rex. You've >>discovered several of >>them prior to this one. But >>the interesting connection >>the reason why this keynote was so powerful as we're a >>team, it's a data conference. >>You connected that to data because you you went out and bought a How do you say this? Magnanimous magnetometer. Magnetometer, Magnetometer. I don't know what that >>is. And a side >>scan Sonar, Right? I got that right. That was >>easy. But >>then you know what this stuff is. And then you >>built the model >>tensorflow. You took all the data and you found anomalies. And then you went right to that spot. Found the >>wreck with 12 >>£1000 of dynamite, >>which made your heart >>beat. But >>then you found >>the boilers. That's incredible. And >>but the point was, >>this is data >>uh, let's see, >>a lot of years after, >>right? >>Yeah. Two sets of data were used. One was the original set of side scan sonar >>data by the historian >>who discovered there was a U boat in the area that was 15 years old. >>And then we used, of >>course, the wind and weather and wave pattern data that was 75 years old to figure out where the boiler should be because they knew that the ship had continued to float for eight minutes. And so you had to go back and determine the models of where should the boilers >>be if it exploded and the boilers >>dropped out and it floated along >>for eight minutes and then sank? Where was >>that data? >>It was was a scanned was an electronic was a paper. How did you get that data? So the original side scan sonar data was just hard >>drive >>data by the historian. >>I wish I could say he used them to >>back it up. But I don't know that I can say that. But he still had >>the data. 15 years later, the >>weather and >>wind and wave data, That was all public information, and we actually used that extensively. We find other wrecks. A lot of wrecks off Boston Sunken World War Two. So we were We were used to that model of tracking what happened. Wow. So, yes, imagine if that data weren't available >>and it >>probably shouldn't have been right by all rights. So now fast forward to 2022. We've got Let's talk about just a cloud >>data. I think you said a >>couple of 100 >>petabytes in the >>cloud 2019. 500 in, Uh, >>no. Yeah. In >>20 2200 and 42. Petabytes in 20 2500 Petabytes last year. And we've already done the same as 2020. So >>240 petabytes >>in Q one. I expect >>this year to move an exhibit of >>data into the public cloud. >>Okay, so you got all that data. Who knows what's in there, right? And if it's not protected, who's going to know in 50 60 7100 years? Right. So that was your tie in? Yes. To the to the importance of data protection, which was just really, really well done. Congratulations. Honestly, one of the best keynotes I've ever seen keynotes often really boring, But you did a great job again on two hours. Sleep. So much to unpack here. The other thing that really is. I mean, we can talk about the demos. We can talk about the announcements. Um, so? Well, yeah, Let's see. Salesforce. Uh, data protection is now public. I almost spilled the beans yesterday in the cube. Caught myself the version 12. Obviously, you guys gave a great demo showing the island >>cloud with I think it >>was just four minutes. It was super fast. Recovery in four minutes of data loss was so glad you didn't say zero minutes because that would have been a live demos which, Okay, which I appreciate and also think is crazy. So some really cool demos, Um, and some really cool features. So I have so much impact, but the the insights that you can provide through them it's VM one, uh, was actually something that I hadn't heard you talk about extensively in the past. That maybe I just missed it. But I wonder if you could talk about that layer and why it's critical differentiator for Wien. It's >>the hidden gem >>within the Wien portfolio because it knows about absolutely >>everything. >>And what determines the actions >>that we take is the >>context in which >>data is surviving. So in the context of security, which we are showing, we look for CPU utilisation, memory utilisation, data change rate. If you encrypt all of the data in a file server, it's going to blow up overnight. And so we're leveraging heuristics in their reporting. But even more than that, one of the things in Wien one people don't realise we have this concept of the intelligent diagnostics. It's machine learning, which we drive on our end and we push out as packages intervene one. There's up to 200 signatures, but it helps our customers find issues before they become issues. Okay, so I want to get into because I often time times, don't geek out with you. And don't take advantage of your your technical knowledge. And you've you've triggered a couple of things, >>especially when the >>analysts call you said it again today that >>modern >>data protection has meaning to you. We talked a little bit about this yesterday, but back in >>the days of >>virtualisation, you shunned agents >>and took a different >>approach because you were going for what was then >>modern. Then you >>went to bare metal cloud hybrid >>cloud containers. Super Cloud. Using the analyst meeting. You didn't use the table. Come on, say Super Cloud and then we'll talk about the edge. So I would like to know specifically if we can go back to Virtualised >>because I didn't know >>this exactly how you guys >>defined modern >>back then >>and then. Let's take that to modern today. >>So what do you >>do back then? And then we'll get into cloud and sure, So if you go back to and being started, everyone who's using agents, you'd instal something in the operating system. It would take 10% 15% of your CPU because it was collecting all the data and sending it outside of the machine when we went through a virtual environment. If you put an agent inside that machine, what happens is you would have 100 operating systems all on the same >>server, consuming >>resources from that hyper visor. And so he said, there's a better way of capturing the data instead of capturing the data inside the operating system. And by the way, managing thousands of agents is no fun. So What we did is we captured a snapshot of the image at the hyper visor level. And then over time, we just leverage changed block >>tracking from the hyper >>visor to determine what >>had changed. And so that was modern. Because no more >>managing agents >>there was no impact >>on the operating system, >>and it was a far more >>efficient way to store >>data. You leverage CBT through the A P. Is that correct? Yeah. We used the VCR API >>for data protection. >>Okay, so I said this to Michael earlier. Fast forward to today. Your your your data protection competitors aren't as fat, dumb and happy as they used to be, so they can do things in containers, containers. And we talked about that. So now let's talk about Cloud. What's different about cloud data protection? What defines modern data protection? And where are the innovations that you're providing? >>Let me do one step in >>between those because one of the things that happened between hypervisors and Cloud was >>offline. The capture of the data >>to the storage system because >>even better than doing it >>at the hyper visor clusters >>do it on the storage >>array because that can capture the >>data instantly. Right? So as we go to the cloud, we want to do the same thing. Except we don't have access to either the hyper visor or the storage system. But what they do provide is an API. So we can use the API to capture all of the blocks, all of the data, all of the changes on that particular operating system. Now, here's where we've kind of gone full circle on a hyper >>visor. You can use the V >>sphere agent to reach into the operating system to do >>things like application consistency. What we've done modern data protection is create specific cloud agents that say Forget >>about the block changes. Make sure that I have application consistency inside that cloud operating >>system. Even though you don't have access to the hyper visor of the storage, >>you're still getting the >>operating system consistency >>while getting the really >>fast capture of data. So that gets into you talking on stage about how synapse don't equal data protection. I think you just explained it, but explain why, but let me highlight something that VM does that is important. We manage both snapshots and back up because if you can recover from your storage array >>snapshot. That is the best >>possible thing to recover from right, But we don't. So we manage both the snapshots and we converted >>into the VM portable >>data format. And here's where the super cloud comes into play because if I can convert it into the VM portable data format, I can move >>that OS >>anywhere. I can move it from >>physical to virtual to cloud >>to another cloud back to virtual. I can put it back on physical if I want to. It actually abstracts >>the cloud >>layer. There are things >>that we do when we go >>between clouds. Some use bio, >>some use, um, fee. >>But we have the data in backup format, not snapshot format. That's theirs. But we have been in backup format that we can move >>around and abstract >>workloads across. All of the infrastructure in your >>catalogue is control >>of that. Is that Is >>that right? That is about >>that 100%. And you know what's interesting about our catalogue? Dave. The catalogue is inside the backup, and so historically, one of the problems with backup is that you had a separate catalogue and if it ever got corrupted. All of your >>data is meaningless >>because the catalogue is inside >>the backup >>for that unique VM or that unique instance, you can move it anywhere and power it on. That's why people said were >>so reliable. As long >>as you have the backup file, you can delete our >>software. You can >>still get the data back, so I love this fast paced so that >>enables >>what I call Super Cloud we now call Super Cloud >>because now >>take that to the edge. >>If I want to go to the edge, I presume you can extend that. And I also presume the containers play a role there. Yes, so here's what's interesting about the edge to things on the edge. You don't want to have any state if you can help it, >>and so >>containers help with that. You can have stateless environment, some >>persistent data storage, >>but we not only >>provide the portability >>in operating systems. We also do this for containers, >>and that's >>true if you go to the cloud and you're using SE CKs >>with relational >>database service is already >>asked for the persistent data. >>Later, we can pick that up and move it to G K E or move it to open shift >>on premises. And >>so that's why I call this the super cloud. We have all of this data. Actually, I think you termed the term super thank you for I'm looking for confirmation from a technologist that it's technically feasible. It >>is technically feasible, >>and you can do it today and that's a I think it's a winning strategy. Personally, Will there be >>such a thing as edge Native? You know, there's cloud native. Will there be edge native new architectures, new ways of doing things, new workloads use cases? We talk about hardware, new hardware, architectures, arm based stuff that are going to change everything to edge Native Yes and no. There's going to be small tweaks that make it better for the edge. You're gonna see a lot of iron at the edge, obviously for power consumption purposes, and you're also going to see different constructs for networking. We're not going to use the traditional networking, probably a lot more software to find stuff. Same thing on the storage. They're going to try and >>minimise the persistent >>storage to the smallest footprint possible. But ultimately I think we're gonna see containers >>will lead >>the edge. We're seeing this now. We have a I probably can't name them, but we have a large retail organisation that is running containers in every single store with a small, persistent footprint of the point of sale and local data, but that what >>is running the actual >>system is containers, and it's completely ephemeral. So we were >>at Red Hat, I was saying >>earlier last week, and I'd say half 40 50% of the conversation was edge open shift, obviously >>playing a big role there. I >>know doing work with Rancher and Town Zoo. And so there's a lot of options there. >>But obviously, open shift has >>strong momentum in the >>marketplace. >>I've been dominating. You want to chime in? No, I'm just No, >>I yeah, I know. Sometimes >>I'll sit here like a sponge, which isn't my job absorbing stuff. I'm just fascinated by the whole concept of of a >>of a portable format for data that encapsulates virtual machines and or instances that can live in the containerised world. And once you once you create that common denominator, that's really that's >>That's the secret sauce >>for what you're talking about is a super club and what's been fascinating to watch because I've been paying attention since the beginning. You go from simply V. M. F s and here it is. And by the way, the pitch to E. M. C. About buying VM ware. It was all about reducing servers to files that can be stored on storage arrays. All of a sudden, the light bulbs went off. We can store those things, and it just began. It became it became a marriage afterwards. But to watch that progression that you guys have gone from from that fundamental to all of the other areas where now you've created this common denominator layer has has been amazing. So my question is, What's the singer? What doesn't work? Where the holes. You don't want to look at it from a from a glass half empty perspective. What's the next opportunity? We've talked about edge, but what are the things that you need to fill in to make this truly ubiquitous? Well, there's a lot of services out there that we're not protecting. To be fair, right, we do. Microsoft 3 65. We announced sales for us, but there's a dozen other paths services that >>people are moving data >>into. And until >>we had data protection >>for the assassin path services, you know >>you have to figure out how >>to protect them. Now here's the kicker about >>those services. >>Most of them have the >>ability to dump date >>out. The trick is, do they have the A >>P? I is needed to put data >>back into it right, >>which is which is a >>gap. As an industry, we need to address this. I actually think we need a common >>framework for >>how to manage the >>export of data, but also the import of data not at a at a system level, but at an atomic level of the elements within those applications. >>So there are gaps >>there at the industry, but we'll fill them >>if you look on the >>infrastructure side. We've done a lot with containers and kubernetes. I think there's a next wave around server list. There's still servers and these micro services, but we're making things smaller and smaller and smaller, and there's going to be an essential need to protect those services as well. So modern data protection is something that's going to we're gonna need modern data protection five years from now, the modern will just be different. Do you ever see the day, Danny, where governance becomes an >>adjacency opportunity for >>you guys? It's clearly an opportunity even now if you look, we spent a lot of time talking about security and what you find is when organisations go, for example, of ransomware insurance or for compliance, they need to be able to prove that they have certifications or they have security or they have governance. We just saw transatlantic privacy >>packed only >>to be able to prove what type of data they're collecting. Where are they storing it? Where are they allowed to recovered? And yes, those are very much adjacency is for our customers. They're trying to manage that data. >>So given that I mean, >>am I correct that architecturally you are, are you location agnostic? Right. We are a location agnostic, and you can actually tag data to allowable location. So the big trend that I think is happening is going to happen in in this >>this this decade. >>I think we're >>scratching the surface. Is this idea >>that, you know, leave data where it is, >>whether it's an S three >>bucket, it could be in an Oracle >>database. It could be in a snowflake database. It can be a data lake that's, you know, data, >>bricks or whatever, >>and it stays where >>it is. And it's just a note on the on the call of the data >>mesh. Not my term. Jim >>Octagon coined that term. The >>problem with that, and it puts data in the hands of closer to the domain experts. The problem with that >>scenario >>is you need self service infrastructure, which really doesn't exist today anyway. But it's coming, and the big problem is Federated >>computational >>governance. How do I automate that governance so that the people who should have access to that it can have access to that data? That, to me, seems to be an adjacency. It doesn't exist except in >>a proprietary >>platform. Today. There needs to be a horizontal >>layer >>that is more open than anybody >>can use. And I >>would think that's a perfect opportunity for you guys. Just strategically it is. There's no question, and I would argue, Dave, that it's actually >>valuable to take snapshots and to keep the data out at the edge wherever it happens to be collected. But then Federated centrally. It's why I get so excited by an exhibit of data this year going into the cloud, because then you're centralising the aggregation, and that's where you're really going to drive the insights. You're not gonna be writing tensorflow and machine learning and things on premises unless you have a lot of money and a lot of GPS and a lot of capacity. That's the type of thing that is actually better suited for the cloud. And, I would argue, better suited for not your organisation. You're gonna want to delegate that to a third party who has expertise in privacy, data analysis or security forensics or whatever it is that you're trying to do with the data. But you're gonna today when you think about AI. We talked about A. I haven't had a tonne of talk about AI some >>appropriate >>amount. Most of the >>AI today correct me if you think >>this is not true is modelling that's done in the cloud. It's dominant. >>Don't >>you think that's gonna flip when edge >>really starts to take >>off where it's it's more real time >>influencing >>at the edge in new use cases at the edge now how much of that data >>is going to be >>persisted is a >>point of discussion. But what >>are your thoughts on that? I completely agree. So my expectation of the way >>that this will work is that >>the true machine learning will happen in the centralised location, and what it will do is similar to someone will push out to the edge the signatures that drive the inferences. So my example of this is always the Tesla driving down the road. >>There's no way that that >>car should be figuring it sending up to the cloud. Is that a stop sign? Is it not? It can't. It has to be able to figure out what the stop sign is before it gets to it, so we'll do the influencing at the edge. But when it doesn't know what to do with the data, then it should send it to the court to determine, to learn about it and send signatures back out, not just to that edge location, but all the edge locations within the within the ecosystem. So I get what you're saying. They might >>send data back >>when there's an anomaly, >>or I always use the example of a deer running in front of the car. David Floyd gave me that one. That's when I want to. I do want to send the data back to the cloud because Tesla doesn't persist. A tonne of data, I presume, right, right less than 5% of it. You know, I want to. Usually I'm here to dive into the weeds. I want kind of uplevel this >>to sort of the >>larger picture. From an I T perspective. >>There's been a lot of consolidation going on if you divide the >>world into vendors >>and customers. On the customer side, there are only if there's a finite number of seats at the table for truly strategic partners. Those get gobbled up often by hyper >>scale cloud >>providers. The challenge there, and I'm part of a CEO accreditation programme. So this >>is aimed at my students who >>are CEOs and CIOs. The challenge is that a lot of CEOs and CIOs on the customer side don't exhaustively drag out of their vendor partners like a theme everything that Saveem >>can do for >>them. Maybe they're leveraging a point >>solution, >>but I guarantee you they don't all know that you've got cast in in the portfolio. Not every one of them does yet, let alone this idea of a super >>cloud and and and >>how much of a strategic role you can play. So I don't know if it's a blanket admonition to folks out there, but you have got to leverage the people who are building the solutions that are going to help you solve problems in the business. And I guess, as in the form of >>a question, >>uh, do you Do you see that as a challenge? Now those the limited number of seats at >>the Table for >>Strategic Partners >>Challenge and >>Opportunity. If you look at the types of partners that we've partnered with storage partners because they own the storage of the data, at the end of the day, we actually just manage it. We don't actually store it the cloud partners. So I see that as the opportunity and my belief is I thought that the storage doesn't matter, >>but I think the >>organisation that can centralise and manage that data is the one that can rule the world, and so >>clearly I'm a team. I think we can do amazing things, but we do have key >>strategic partners hp >>E Amazon. You heard >>them on stage yesterday. >>18 different >>integrations with AWS. So we have very strategic partners. Azure. I go out there all the time. >>So there >>you don't need to be >>in the room at the table because your partners are >>and they have a relationship with the customer as well. Fair enough. But the key to this it's not just technology. It is these relationships and what is possible between our organisations. So I'm sorry to be >>so dense on this, but when you talk about >>centralising that data you're talking about physically centralising it or can actually live across clouds, >>for instance. But you've got >>visibility and your catalogues >>have visibility on >>all that. Is that what you mean by centralised obliterated? We have understanding of all the places that lives, and we can do things with >>it. We can move it from one >>cloud to another. We can take, you know, everyone talks about data warehouses. >>They're actually pretty expensive. >>You got to take data and stream it into this thing, and there's a massive computing power. On the other hand, we're >>not like that. You've storage on there. We can ephemeral e. Spin up a database when you need it for five minutes and then destroy it. We can spin up an image when you need it and then destroy it. And so on your perspective of locations. So irrespective of >>location, it doesn't >>have to be in a central place, and that's been a challenge. You extract, >>transform and load, >>and moving the data to the central >>location has been a problem. We >>have awareness of >>all the data everywhere, >>and then we can make >>decisions as to what you >>do based >>on where it is and >>what it is. And that's a metadata >>innovation. I guess that >>comes back to the catalogue, >>right? Is that correct? >>You have data >>about the data that informs you as to where it is and how to get to it. And yes, so metadata within the data that allows you to recover it and then data across the federation of all that to determine where it is. And machine intelligence plays a role in all that, not yet not yet in that space. Now. I do think there's opportunity in the future to be able to distribute storage across many different locations and that's a whole conversation in itself. But but our machine learning is more just on helping our customers address the problems in their infrastructures rather than determining right now where that data should be. >>These guys they want me to break, But I'm >>refusing. So your >>Hadoop back >>in their rooms via, um that's >>well, >>that scale. A lot of customers. I talked to Renee Dupuis. Hey, we we got there >>was heavy lift. You >>know, we're looking at new >>ways. New >>approaches, uh, going. And of course, it's all in the cloud >>anyway. But what's >>that look like? That future look like we haven't reached bottle and X ray yet on our on our Hadoop clusters, and we do continuously examine >>them for anomalies that might happen. >>Not saying we won't run into a >>bottle like we always do at some >>point, But we haven't yet >>awesome. We've covered a lot of We've certainly covered extensively the research that you did on cyber >>security and ransomware. Um, you're kind of your vision for modern >>data protection. I think we hit on that pretty well casting, you know, we talked to Michael about that, and then, you know, the future product releases the Salesforce data protection. You guys, I think you're the first there. I think you were threatened at first from Microsoft. 3 65. No, there are other vendors in the in the salesforce space. But what I tell people we weren't the first to do data capture at the hyper >>visor level. There's two other >>vendors I won't tell you they were No one remembers them. Microsoft 3 65. We weren't the first one to for that, but we're now >>the largest. So >>there are other vendors in the salesforce space. But we're looking at We're going to be aggressive. Danielle, Thanks >>so much for coming to Cuba and letting us pick your brain like that Really great job today. And congratulations on >>being back >>in semi normal. Thank you for having me. I love being on all right. And thank you for watching. Keep it right there. More coverage. Day volonte for Dave >>Nicholson, By >>the way, check out silicon angle dot com for all the written coverage. All the news >>The cube dot >>net is where all these videos We'll we'll live. Check out wiki bond dot com I published every week. I think I'm gonna dig into the cybersecurity >>research that you guys did this week. If I can >>get a hands my hands on those charts which Dave Russell promised >>me, we'll be right back >>right after this short break. Mm.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> When Facebook changed its name to Meta last fall, it catalyzed a chain reaction throughout the tech industry. Software firms, gaming companies, chip makers, device manufacturers, and others have joined in hype machine. Now, it's easy to dismiss the metaverse as futuristic hyperbole, but do we really believe that tapping on a smartphone, or staring at a screen, or two-dimensional Zoom meetings are the future of how we work, play, and communicate? As the internet itself proved to be larger than we ever imagined, it's very possible, and even quite likely that the combination of massive processing power, cheap storage, AI, blockchains, crypto, sensors, AR, VR, brain interfaces, and other emerging technologies will combine to create new and unimaginable consumer experiences, and massive wealth for creators of the metaverse. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wiki Bond Cube Insights, powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis" we welcome in cyber expert, hacker gamer, NFT expert, and founder of ORE System, Nick Donarski. Nick, welcome, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you, sir, glad to be here. >> Yeah, okay, so today we're going to traverse two parallel paths, one that took Nick from security expert and PenTester to NFTs, tokens, and the metaverse. And we'll simultaneously explore the complicated world of cybersecurity in the enterprise, and how the blockchain, crypto, and NFTs will provide key underpinnings for digital ownership in the metaverse. We're going to talk a little bit about blockchain, and crypto, and get things started there, and some of the realities and misconceptions, and how innovations in those worlds have led to the NFT craze. We'll look at what's really going on in NFTs and why they're important as both a technology and societal trend. Then, we're going to dig into the tech and try to explain why and how blockchain and NFTs are going to lay the foundation for the metaverse. And, finally, who's going to build the metaverse. And how long is it going to take? All right, Nick, let's start with you. Tell us a little bit about your background, your career. You started as a hacker at a really, really young age, and then got deep into cyber as a PenTester. You did some pretty crazy stuff. You have some great stories about sneaking into buildings. You weren't just doing it all remote. Tell us about yourself. >> Yeah, so I mean, really, I started a long time ago. My dad was really the foray into technology. I wrote my first program on an Apple IIe in BASIC in 1989. So, I like to say I was born on the internet, if you will. But, yeah, in high school at 16, I incorporated my first company, did just tech support for parents and teachers. And then in 2000 I transitioned really into security and focused there ever since. I joined Rapid7 and after they picked up Medis boy, I joined HP. I was one of their founding members of Shadowlabs and really have been part of the information security and the cyber community all throughout, whether it's training at various different conferences or talking. My biggest thing and my most awesome moments as various things of being broken into, is really when I get to actually work with somebody that's coming up in the industry and who's new and actually has that light bulb moment of really kind of understanding of technology, understanding an idea, or getting it when it comes to that kind of stuff. >> Yeah, and when you think about what's going on in crypto and NFTs and okay, now the metaverse it's you get to see some of the most innovative people. Now I want to first share a little bit of data on enterprise security and maybe Nick get you to comment. We've reported over the past several years on the complexity in the security business and the numerous vendor choices that SecOps Pros face. And this chart really tells that story in the cybersecurity space. It's an X,Y graph. We've shown it many times from the ETR surveys where the vertical axis, it's a measure of spending momentum called net score. And the horizontal axis is market share, which represents each company's presence in the data set, and a couple of points stand out. First, it's really crowded. In that red dotted line that you see there, that's 40%, above that line on the net score axis, marks highly elevated spending momentum. Now, let's just zoom in a bit and I've cut the data by those companies that have more than a hundred responses in the survey. And you can see here on this next chart, it's still very crowded, but a few call-outs are noteworthy. First companies like SentinelOne, Elastic, Tanium, Datadog, Netskope and Darktrace. They were all above that 40% line in the previous chart, but they've fallen off. They still have actually a decent presence in the survey over 60 responses, but under that hundred. And you can see Auth0 now Okta, big $7 billion acquisition. They got the highest net score CrowdStrike's up there, Okta classic they're kind of enterprise business, and Zscaler and others above that line. You see Palo Alto Networks and Microsoft very impressive because they're both big and they're above that elevated spending velocity. So Nick, kind of a long-winded intro, but it was a little bit off topic, but I wanted to start here because this is the life of a SecOps pro. They lack the talent in a capacity to keep bad guys fully at bay. And so they have to keep throwing tooling at the problem, which adds to the complexity and as a PenTester and hacker, this chaos and complexity means cash for the bad guys. Doesn't it? >> Absolutely. You know, the more systems that these organizations find to integrate into the systems, means that there's more components, more dollars and cents as far as the amount of time and the engineers that need to actually be responsible for these tools. There's a lot of reasons that, the more, I guess, hands in the cookie jar, if you will, when it comes to the security architecture, the more links that are, or avenues for attack built into the system. And really one of the biggest things that organizations face is being able to have engineers that are qualified and technical enough to be able to support that architecture as well, 'cause buying it from a vendor and deploying it, putting it onto a shelf is good, but if it's not tuned properly, or if it's not connected properly, that security tool can just hold up more avenues of attack for you. >> Right, okay, thank you. Now, let's get into the meat of the discussion for today and talk a little bit about blockchain and crypto for a bit. I saw sub stack post the other day, and it was ripping Matt Damon for pedaling crypto on TV ads and how crypto is just this big pyramid scheme. And it's all about allowing criminals to be anonymous and it's ransomware and drug trafficking. And yes, there are definitely scams and you got to be careful and lots of dangers out there, but these are common criticisms in the mainstream press, that overlooked the fact by the way that IPO's and specs are just as much of a pyramid scheme. Now, I'm not saying there shouldn't be more regulation, there should, but Bitcoin was born out of the 2008 financial crisis, cryptocurrency, and you think about, it's really the confluence of software engineering, cryptography and game theory. And there's some really powerful innovation being created by the blockchain community. Crypto and blockchain are really at the heart of a new decentralized platform being built out. And where today, you got a few, large internet companies. They control the protocols and the platform. Now the aspiration of people like yourself, is to create new value opportunities. And there are many more chances for the little guys and girls to get in on the ground floor and blockchain technology underpins all this. So Nick, what's your take, what are some of the biggest misconceptions around blockchain and crypto? And do you even pair those two in the same context? What are your thoughts? >> So, I mean, really, we like to separate ourselves and say that we are a blockchain company, as opposed to necessarily saying(indistinct) anything like that. We leverage those tools. We leverage cryptocurrencies, we leverage NFTs and those types of things within there, but blockchain is a technology, which is the underlying piece, is something that can be used and utilized in a very large number of different organizations out there. So, cryptocurrency and a lot of that negative context comes with a fear of something new, without having that regulation in place, without having the rules in place. And we were a big proponent of, we want the regulation, right? We want to do right. We want to do it by the rules. We want to do it under the context of, this is what should be done. And we also want to help write those rules as well, because a lot of the lawmakers, a lot of the lobbyists and things, they have a certain aspect or a certain goal of when they're trying to get these things. Our goal is simplicity. We want the ability for the normal average person to be able to interact with crypto, interact with NFTs, interact with the blockchain. And basically by saying, blockchain in quotes, it's very ambiguous 'cause there's many different things that blockchain can be, the easiest way, right? The easiest way to understand blockchain is simply a distributed database. That's really the core of what blockchain is. It's a record keeping mechanism that allows you to reference that. And the beauty of it, is that it's quote unquote immutable. You can't edit that data. So, especially when we're talking about blockchain, being underlying for technologies in the future, things like security, where you have logging, you have keeping, whether you're talking about sales, where you may have to have multiple different locations (indistinct) users from different locations around the globe. It creates a central repository that provides distribution and security in the way that you're ensuring your data, ensuring the validation of where that data exists when it was created. Those types of things that blockchain really is. If you go to the historical, right, the very early on Bitcoin absolutely was made to have a way of not having to deal with the fed. That was the core functionality of the initial crypto. And then you had a lot of the illicit trades, those black markets that jumped onto it because of what it could do. The maturity of the technology though, of where we are now versus say back in 97 is a much different world of blockchain, and there's a much different world of cryptocurrency. You still have to be careful because with any fed, you're still going to have that FUD that goes out there and sells that fear, uncertainty and doubt, which spurs a lot of those types of scams, and a lot of those things that target end users that we face as security professionals today. You still get mailers that go out, looking for people to give their social security number over during tax time. Snail mail is considered a very ancient technology, but it still works. You still get a portion of the population that falls for those tricks, fishing, whatever it might be. It's all about trying to make sure that you have fear about what is that change. And I think that as we move forward, and move into the future, the simpler and the more comfortable these types of technologies become, the easier it is to utilize and indoctrinate normal users, to be able to use these things. >> You know, I want to ask you about that, Nick, because you mentioned immutability, there's a lot of misconceptions about that. I had somebody tell me one time, "Blockchain's Bs," and they say, "Well, oh, hold on a second. They say, oh, they say it's a mutable, but you can hack Coinbase, whatever it is." So I guess a couple of things, one is that the killer app for blockchain became money. And so we learned a lot through that. And you had Bitcoin and it really wasn't programmable through its interface. And then Ethereum comes out. I know, you know a lot about Ether and you have solidity, which is a lot simpler, but it ain't JavaScript, which is ubiquitous. And so now you have a lot of potential for the initial ICO's and probably still the ones today, the white papers, a lot of security flaws in there. I'm sure you can talk to that, but maybe you can help square that circle about immutability and security. I've mentioned game theory before, it's harder to hack Bitcoin and the Bitcoin blockchain than it is to mine. So that's why people mine, but maybe you could add some context to that. >> Yeah, you know it goes to just about any technology out there. Now, when you're talking about blockchain specifically, the majority of the attacks happen with the applications and the smart contracts that are actually running on the blockchain, as opposed to necessarily the blockchain itself. And like you said, the impact for whether that's loss of revenue or loss of tokens or whatever it is, in most cases that results from something that was a phishing attack, you gave up your credentials, somebody said, paste your private key in here, and you win a cookie or whatever it might be, but those are still the fundamental pieces. When you're talking about various different networks out there, depending on the blockchain, depends on how much the overall security really is. The more distributed it is, and the more stable it is as the network goes, the better or the more stable any of the code is going to be. The underlying architecture of any system is the key to success when it comes to the overall security. So the blockchain itself is immutable, in the case that the owner are ones have to be trusted. If you look at distributed networks, something like Ethereum or Bitcoin, where you have those proof of work systems, that disperses that information at a much more remote location, So the more disperse that information is, the less likely it is to be able to be impacted by one small instance. If you look at like the DAO Hack, or if you look at a lot of the other vulnerabilities that exist on the blockchain, it's more about the code. And like you said, solidity being as new as it is, it's not JavaScript. The industry is very early and very infantile, as far as the developers that are skilled in doing this. And with that just comes the inexperience and the lack of information that you don't learn until JavaScript is 10 or 12 years old. >> And the last thing I'll say about this topic, and we'll move on to NFTs, but NFTs relate is that, again, I said earlier that the big internet giants have pretty much co-opted the platform. You know, if you wanted to invest in Linux in the early days, there was no way to do that. You maybe have to wait until red hat came up with its IPO and there's your pyramid scheme folks. But with crypto it, which is again, as Nick was explaining underpinning is the blockchain, you can actually participate in early projects. Now you got to be careful 'cause there are a lot of scams and many of them are going to blow out if not most of them, but there are some, gems out there, because as Nick was describing, you've got this decentralized platform that causes scaling issues or performance issues, and people are solving those problems, essentially building out a new internet. But I want to get into NFTs, because it's sort of the next big thing here before we get into the metaverse, what Nick, why should people pay attention to NFTs? Why do they matter? Are they really an important trend? And what are the societal and technological impacts that you see in this space? >> Yeah, I mean, NFTs are a very new technology and ultimately it's just another entry on the blockchain. It's just another piece of data in the database. But how it's leveraged in the grand scheme of how we, as users see it, it can be the classic idea of an NFT is just the art, or as good as the poster on your wall. But in the case of some of the new applications, is where are you actually get that utility function. Now, in the case of say video games, video games and gamers in general, already utilize digital items. They already utilize digital points. As in the case of like Call of Duty points, those are just different versions of digital currencies. You know, World of Warcraft Gold, I like to affectionately say, was the very first cryptocurrency. There was a Harvard course taught on the economy of WOW, there was a black market where you could trade your end game gold for Fiat currencies. And there's even places around the world that you can purchase real world items and stay at hotels for World of Warcraft Gold. So the adoption of blockchain just simply gives a more stable and a more diverse technology for those same types of systems. You're going to see that carry over into shipping and logistics, where you need to have data that is single repository for being able to have multiple locations, multiple shippers from multiple global efforts out there that need to have access to that data. But in the current context, it's either sitting on a shipping log, it's sitting on somebody's desk. All of those types of paper transactions can be leveraged as NFTs on the blockchain. It's just simply that representation. And once you break the idea of this is just a piece of art, or this is a cryptocurrency, you get into a world where you can apply that NFT technology to a lot more things than I think most people think of today. >> Yeah, and of course you mentioned art a couple of times when people sold as digital art for whatever, it was 60, 65 million, 69 million, that caught a lot of people's attention, but you're seeing, I mean, there's virtually infinite number of applications for this. One of the Washington wizards, tokenized portions of his contract, maybe he was creating a new bond, that's really interesting use cases and opportunities, and that kind of segues into the latest, hot topic, which is the metaverse. And you've said yourself that blockchain and NFTs are the foundation of the metaverse, they're foundational elements. So first, what is the metaverse to you and where do blockchain and NFTs, fit in? >> Sure, so, I mean, I affectionately refer to the metaverse just a VR and essentially, we've been playing virtual reality games and all the rest for a long time. And VR has really kind of been out there for a long time. So most people's interpretation or idea of what the metaverse is, is a virtual reality version of yourself and this right, that idea of once it becomes yourself, is where things like NFT items, where blockchain and digital currencies are going to come in, because if you have a manufacturer, so you take on an organization like Nike, and they want to put their shoes into the metaverse because we, as humans, want to individualize ourselves. We go out and we want to have that one of one shoe or that, t-shirt or whatever it is, we're going to want to represent that same type of individuality in our virtual self. So NFTs, crypto and all of those digital currencies, like I was saying that we've known as gamers are going to play that very similar role inside of the metaverse. >> Yeah. Okay. So basically you're going to take your physical world into the metaverse. You're going to be able to, as you just mentioned, acquire things- I loved your WOW example. And so let's stay on this for a bit, if we may, of course, Facebook spawned a lot of speculation and discussion about the concept of the metaverse and really, as you pointed out, it's not new. You talked about why second life, really started in 2003, and it's still around today. It's small, I read recently, it's creators coming back into the company and books were written in the early 90s that used the term metaverse. But Nick, talk about how you see this evolving, what role you hope to play with your company and your community in the future, and who builds the metaverse, when is it going to be here? >> Yeah, so, I mean, right now, and we actually just got back from CES last week. And the Metaverse is a very big buzzword. You're going to see a lot of integration of what people are calling, quote unquote, the metaverse. And there was organizations that were showing virtual office space, virtual malls, virtual concerts, and those types of experiences. And the one thing right now that I don't think that a lot of organizations have grasp is how to make one metaverse. There's no real player one, if you will always this yet, There's a lot of organizations that are creating their version of the metaverse, which then again, just like every other software and game vendor out there has their version of cryptocurrency and their version of NFTs. You're going to see it start to pop up, especially as Oculus is going to come down in price, especially as you get new technologies, like some of the VR glasses that look more augmented reality and look more like regular glasses that you're wearing, things like that, the easier that those technologies become as in adopting into our normal lifestyle, as far as like looks and feels, the faster that stuff's going to actually come out to the world. But when it comes to like, what we're doing is we believe that the metaverse should actually span multiple different blockchains, multiple different segments, if you will. So what ORE system is doing, is we're actually building the underlying architecture and technologies for developers to bring their metaverse too. You can leverage the ORE Systems NFTs, where we like to call our utility NFTs as an in-game item in one game, or you can take it over and it could be a t-shirt in another game. The ability for having that cross support within the ecosystem is what really no one has grasp on yet. Most of the organizations out there are using a very classic business model. Get the user in the game, make them spend their money in the game, make all their game stuff as only good in their game. And that's where the developer has you, they have you in their bubble. Our goal, and what we like to affectionately say is, we want to bring white collar tools and technology to blue collar folks, We want to make it simple. We want to make it off the shelf, and we want to make it a less cost prohibitive, faster, and cheaper to actually get out to all the users. We do it by supporting the technology. That's our angle. If you support the technology and you support the platform, you can build a community that will build all of the metaverse around them. >> Well, and so this is interesting because, if you think about some of the big names, we've Microsoft is talking about it, obviously we mentioned Facebook. They have essentially walled gardens. Now, yeah, okay, I could take Tik Tok and pump it into Instagram is fine, but they're really siloed off. And what you're saying is in the metaverse, you should be able to buy a pair of sneakers in one location and then bring it to another one. >> Absolutely, that's exactly it. >> And so my original kind of investment in attractiveness, if you will, to crypto, was that, the little guy can get an early, but I worry that some of these walled gardens, these big internet giants are going to try to co-op this. So I think what you're doing is right on, and I think it's aligned with the objectives of consumers and the users who don't want to be forced in to a pen. They want to be able to live freely. And that's really what you're trying to do. >> That's exactly it. You know, when you buy an item, say a Skin in Fortnite or Skin in Call of Duty, it's only good in that game. And not even in the franchise, it's only good in that version of the game. In the case of what we want to do is, you can not only have that carry over and your character. So say you buy a really cool shirt, and you've got that in your Call of Duty or in our case, we're really Osiris Protocol, which is our proof of concept video game to show that this all thing actually works, but you can actually go in and you can get a gun in Osiris Protocol. And if we release, Osiris Protocol two, you'll be able to take that to Osiris Protocol two. Now the benefit of that is, is you're going to be the only one in the next version with that item, if you haven't sold it or traded it or whatever else. So we don't lock you into a game. We don't lock you into a specific application. You own that, you can trade that freely with other users. You can sell that on the open market. We're embracing what used to be considered the black market. I don't understand why a lot of video games, we're always against the skins and mods and all the rest. For me as a gamer and coming up, through the many, many years of various different Call of Duties and everything in my time, I wish I could still have some this year. I still have a World of Warcraft account. I wasn't on, Vanilla, Burning Crusade was my foray, but I still have a character. If you look at it that way, if I had that wild character and that gear was NFTs, in theory, I could actually pass that onto my kid who could carry on that character. And it would actually increase in value because they're NFT back then. And then if needed, you could trade those on the open market and all the rest. It just makes gaming a much different thing. >> I love it. All right, Nick, hey, we're out of time, but I got to say, Nick Donarski, thanks so much for coming on the program today, sharing your insights and really good luck to you and building out your technology platform and your community. >> Thank you, sir, it's been an absolute pleasure. >> And thank you for watching. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts, just search "Breaking Analysis Podcast", and you'll find them. I publish pretty much every week on siliconangle.com and wikibond.com. And you can reach me @dvellante on Twitter or comment on my LinkedIn posts. You can always email me david.vellante@siliconangle.com. And don't forget, check out etr.plus for all the survey data. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights, powered by ETR, happy 2022 be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>From the cube studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and ETR. This is breaking analysis with Dave Vellante >>UI path has always been an unconventional company. You know, it started with humble beginnings. It was essentially a software development shop. And then it caught lightning in a bottle with its computer vision technology. And it's really it's simplification mantra. And it created a very easy to deploy software robot system for bespoke departments. So they could automate mundane tasks. You know, you know, the story, the company grew rapidly was able to go public early this year. Now consistent with its out of the ordinary approach. While other firms are shutting down travel and physical events, UI path is moving ahead with forward for its annual user conference next week with a live audience there at the Bellagio in Las Vegas, it's also fast-forwarding as a company determined to lead the charge beyond RPA and execute on a more all encompassing enterprise automation agenda. Hello everyone. And welcome to this week's Wiki bond Cuban sites powered by ETR in this breaking analysis and a head of forward four we'll update you in the RPA market. >>The progress that UI path has made since its IPO and bringing some ETR customer survey data to contextualize the company's position in the overall market and relative to the competition. Here's a quick rundown of today's agenda. First, I want to tell you the cube is going to be at forward for, at the Bellagio next week, UI paths. This is their big customer event. It's live. It's a physical event. It's primarily outdoors. You have to be vaccinated to attend. Now it's not completely out of the ordinary John furrier and the cube. We're at AWS public sector this past week. And we were at mobile world Congress and one of the first big hybrid events of the year at Barcelona. And we thought that event would kick off the fall event season live event in earnest, but the COVID crisis has caused many tech firms. Most tech firms actually to hit the pause button, not UI path. >>They're moving ahead, they're going forward. And we see a growing trend for smaller VIP events with a virtual component topic, maybe for another day. Now we've talked extensively about the productivity challenges and the automation mandate. The pandemic has thrust upon us. Now we've seen pretty dramatic productivity improvements as remote work kicked in, but it's brought new stresses. For example, according to Qualtrics, 32% of working moms said their mental health has declined since the pandemic hit. 15% of working dads said the same by the way. So one has to question the sustainability of this perpetual Workday, and we're seeing a continuum of automation solutions emerging. And we'll talk about that today. We're seeing tons of MNA, M and a as well, but now in that continuum on the left side of the spectrum, there's Microsoft who in some ways they stand alone and that Azure is becoming ubiquitous as a SAS cloud collaboration and productivity platform. >>Microsoft is everywhere and in virtually every market with their video conferencing security database, cloud CRM, analytics, you name it, Microsoft is pretty much there. And RPA is no different with the acquisition of soft emotive. Last year, Microsoft entered the RTA market in earnest and is penetrating very deeply into the space, particularly as it pertains to personal approach, personal productivity building on its software state. Now in the middle of that spectrum, if you will, we're seeing more M and a, and that's defined really by the big software giants. Think of this domain as integrated software plays SAP, they acquired contexture, uh, uh, they also acquired a company called process insight service now acquired Intella bought Salesforce service trace. We see in for entering the fray. And I, I would put even Pega Pega systems in this camp, software companies focused on integrating RPA into their broader workflows into their software platforms. >>And this is important because these platforms are entrenched. They're walled gardens of sorts and complicated with lots of touchpoints and integration points. And frankly, they're much harder to automate because of their entrenched legacy. Now on the far side of that, spectrum are the horizontal automation players and that's being led by UI path with automate automation anywhere as the number two player in this domain. And I didn't even put blue prism prism in there more M and a recently announced, uh, that Vista is going to acquire them. Vista also owns TIBCO. They're going to merge those two companies, you know, tip goes kind of an integration play. And so again, I'm, I might, I would put them in that, you know, horizontal piece of the spectrum. So with that as background, we're going to look at how UI path has performed since we last covered them at IPO. >>And then we'll bring in some ETR survey data to get the spending view from customers. And then we'll wrap up now just to emphasize the importance of, of automation and the automation mandate mandate. We talk about it all the time in this program, we use this ETR chart. It's a two dimensional view with net score, which is a measure of spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share, which is a proxy for pervasiveness in the dataset. That's on the horizontal axis. Now note that red dotted line at signifies companies with an elevated position on the net score, vertical axis, anything over that is considered pretty good, very good. Now this shows every spending segment within the ETR taxonomy and the four spending categories with the greatest velocity are AI cloud containers and RPA. And they've topped the charts for quite a while. Now they're the only four categories which have sustained above that 40% line consistently throughout the pandemic. >>And even before now, the impressive thing about cloud of course, is it has a spending has both spending momentum on the vertical axis at a very large share of the, of the market share of presence in the dataset. The point is RPA is nascent still. It has an affinity with AI as a means of more intelligently identifying and streamlining process improvements. And so we expect those to, to remain elevated and grow to the right together, UI path pegs it's Tam, total available market at 60 billion. And the reality is that could be understated. Okay. As we reported from the UI path S one analysis, we did pre IPO. The company at that time had an AR annual recurring revenue of $580 million and was growing at 65% annually at nearly 8,000 customers at the time, a thousand of which had an ARR in excess of a hundred K and a net revenue retention, the company had with 145%. >>So let's take a look at the picture six months forward. We mentioned the $60 billion Tam ARR now up over 725 million on its way to a billion ARR holding pretty steady at 60% growth as is an RR net revenue retention, and more than a thousand new customers in 200 more with over a hundred thousand in ARR and a small operating profit, which by the way, exceeded the consensus pretty substantially. Profitability is not shown here and no one seems to care anyway, these days it's all about growing into that Tam. Well, that's a pretty good looking picture. Isn't it? The company had a beat and a raise for the quarter early this month. So looking good, right? Well, you ask how come the stock's not doing better. That's an interesting question. So let's first look at the stocks performance on a relative basis. Here, we show you I pass performance against Pega systems and blue prism. >>The other two publicly traded automation, pure plays, you know, sort of in the case of Pega. So UI path outperformed post its IPO, but since the early summer Pega has been the big winner. Well, UI path slowly decelerated, you see blue prism was the laggard until it was announced. It was in an acquisition talks with a couple of PE firms and the prospects of a bidding war sent that yellow line up. As you can see UI path, as you can see on the inset has a much higher valuation than Pega and way higher than blue prison. Pega. Interestingly is growing revenues nicely at around 40%. And I think what's happening is the street simply wants more, even though UI path beat and raised wall street, still getting comfortable with which is new to the public market game. And the company just needs to demonstrate a track record and build trust. >>There's also some education around billings and multi-year contracts that the company addressed on its last earnings call, but the street was concerned about ARR from new logos. It appears to be slowing down sequentially in a notable decline in billings momentum, which UI pass CEO, CFO addressed on the earnings call saying, look, they don't need to trade margin for prepaid multi-year deals, given the strong cash position while I give anything up. And even though I said, nobody cares about profitability. Well, I guess that's true until you guide for an operating loss. When you've been showing a small profit in recent recent quarters, which you AIPAC did, then all of a sudden people care. So UI path, isn't a bit of an unknown territory to the street and it has a valuation that's pretty rich, very rich, actually at 30 times, a revenue multiple greater than 30 times revenue, multiple. >>So that's why in, in my view, investors are being cautious, but I want to address a dynamic that we've seen with these high growth rocket ship companies, something we talked about with snowflake. And I think you're seeing some of that here with UI paths, different model in the sense that snowflake is pure cloud, but I'm talking about concerns around ARR from new logos and in that growth on a sequential basis. And here's what's happening in my view with UI path, you have a company that started within departments with a small average contract size in ACV, maybe 25,000, maybe 50,000, but not deep six figure deals that wasn't UI paths play it because the company focused so heavily on simplicity and made it really easy to adopt customer saw really fast ROI. I mean breakeven in months. So you very quickly saw expansion into other departments. >>So when ACV started to rise and installations expanded within each customer UI path realized it had to move beyond being a point product. And it started thinking about a platform and making acquisitions like process gold and others, and this marked a much deeper expansion into the customer base. And you can see that here in this UI path, a chart that they shared at their investor deck customers that bought in 2016 and 2017 expanded their they've expanded their spend 15, 13, 15, 18 20 X. So the LTV, the lifetime value of the customer is growing dramatically. And because UI path has focused on simplicity, it has a very facile freemium model, much easier to try before you buy than its competitors. It's CAC, it's customer acquisition costs are likely much lower than some of its peers. And that's a key dynamic. So don't get freaked out by some of those concerns that we raised earlier, because just like snowflake what's happening is the company for sure is gaining new customers. >>Maybe just not at the same rate, but don't miss the forest through the trees. I E they're getting more money from their existing customers, which means retention, loyalty and growth. Speaking of forests, this chart is the dynamic I'm talking about. It's an ETR graphic that shows the components of net score or against spending momentum net score breaks down into five areas that lime green at the top is new additions. Okay? So that's only 11% of the customer mentions by the way, we're talking about more than 125 responses for UI path. So it's meaningful. It's, it's actually larger in this survey, uh, or certainly comparable to Microsoft. So that says something right there. The next bar is the forest green forest. Green is where I want you to focus. That's customer spending 6% or more in the second half of the year, relative to the first half. >>The gray is flat spending, which is quite large, the pink or light red that's spending customer spending 6% or worse. That's a 4% number, but look at the bottom bar. There is no bar that's churn. 0% of the respondents in the survey are churning and churn is the silent killer of SAS companies, 0% defections. So you've got 46% spending, more nobody leaving. That's the dynamic that is powering UI path right now. And I would take this picture any day over a larger lime green and a smaller forest green and a bigger churn number. Okay. So it's pretty good. It's not snowflake good, but it's solid. So how does this picture compare to UI pass peers? Well, let's take a look at that. So this is ETR data, same data showing the granularity net score for Microsoft power, automate UI path automation, anywhere blue prism and Pega. >>So as we said before, Microsoft is ubiquitous. What can we say about that? But UI path is right there with a more robust platform, not to overlook Microsoft. You can't, but UI path, it'll tell you that they don't compete head to head for enterprise automation deals with Microsoft. Now, maybe they will over time. They do however, compete head to head with automation anywhere. And their picture is quite strong. As you can see here, it has this blue Prism's picture and even Pega, although blue prism, automation, anywhere UI path and power automate all have net scores on this chart. As you can see the table in the upper right over 40% Pega does not. But again, we don't see Pega as a pure play RPA vendor. It's a little bit of sort of apples and oranges there, but they do sell RPA and ETR captures in their taxonomy. >>So why not include them also note that UI path has, as I said before, more mentions in the survey than power automate, which is actually quite interesting, given the ubiquity of Microsoft. Now, one other notable notable note is the bright red that's defections and only UI path is showing zero defections. Everybody else has at least even of the slim, some defections. Okay. So take that as you will, but it's another data 0.1. That's powerful, not only for UI path, but really for the entire sector. Now, the last ETR data point that we want to share is our famous two dimensional view. Like the sector chart we showed earlier, this graphic shows net score on the vertical axis. That's against spending velocity and market share or pervasiveness on the horizontal axis. So as we said earlier, UI path actually has greater presence in the survey than the ever-present Microsoft. >>Remember, this is the July survey. We don't have full results from the September, October survey yet. And we can't release them until ETR is out of its quiet period. But I expect the entire sector, like everything is going to be slightly down because as we reported last week, tech spending is moderated slightly in the second half of this year, but we don't expect the picture to change dramatically. UI path and power automate, we think are going to lead and market presence in those two plus automation anywhere are going to show strength and spending momentum as well. Most of the sector. And we'll see who comes in above the 40% line. Okay. What to watch at forward four. So in summary, I'll be looking for a few things. One UI path has hinted toward a big platform announcement that will deepen its capabilities to go beyond being an RPA point tool into much more of an enterprise automation platform rewriting a lot of the code Linux cloud, better automation of the UI. >>You're going to hear all kinds of new product announcements that are coming. So I'll be listening for those details. I want to hear more from customers to further confirm what I've been hearing from them over the last couple of years and get more data, especially on that ROI on that land and expand. I want to understand that dynamic and that true enterprise automation. It's going to be good to get an update face to face and test some of our assumptions here and see where the gaps are and where UI path can improve. Third. I want to talk to ecosystem players to see where they are in participating in the value chain here. What kind of partner has UI path become since it's IPO? Are they investing more in the ecosystem? How to partners fit into that flywheel fourth, I want to hear from UI path management, Daniel DNAs, and other UI path leaders, they're exiting toddler Ville and coming into an adolescent phase or early adulthood. >>And what does that progression look like? How does it feel? What's the vibe at the show. And finally, I'm very excited to participate in a live in-person event to see what's working, see how a hybrid events are evolving. We got a good glimpse at mobile world Congress and this week, and, uh, in DC and public sector summit, here's, you know, the cube has been doing hybrid events for years, and we intend to continue to lead in this regard and bring you the best, real time information as possible. Okay. That's it for today. Remember, these episodes are all available as podcasts, wherever you listen. All you do is search braking analysis podcast. We publish each week on Wiki bond.com and siliconangle.com. And you can always connect on twitter@devolanteoremailmeatdaviddotvolanteatsiliconangle.com. Appreciate the comments on LinkedIn. And don't forget to check out E T r.plus for all the survey data. This is Dave Volante for the cube insights powered by ETR be well, and we'll see you next time.

>>From the Bellagio hotel in Las Vegas, it's the cube covering UI path forward for brought to you by UI path. >>Welcome back to Las Vegas. Lisa Martin, with Dave Vellante at UI path forward for, we have had it all today. Lots of great guests. We've had weather, we've had rain. We are outside and lots of great conversations going on. Next up, we're going to be talking about automation at healthcare giant. Merck. Joining us from merch is Dan Boyd automation leader, and from CGI partner of UI paths, bill angles, senior automation architect, guys, welcome to the program. >>Thanks for having us. >>So Dan, we'll go ahead and start with you. Let's talk about Merck and the implement and the adoption of automation, such a history company. >>Yeah. Thank you. Um, our journey started about two years ago and started with the small team and has evolved ever since we started just the handful of folks we've evolved, uh, from the size of our team, matured, operationally and expanded our capabilities along that journey to where we are today. And it continues to evolve as the technology changes. And it's been exciting to see the adoption at Merck over, you know, across the enterprise. Um, it's been an educational process, but it's been exciting just to see that understanding of the power that automation can deliver to them. And they see the value in making it real to them has been key. Um, then once it's real and they get excited and the word spreads and they appreciate the value right before their eyes and bill, are you, >>Uh, industry specialized or more automation specialist? >>Yeah. Yeah. So I'm more, uh, automation specialized, but uh, you know, CGI, we partner with our industry experts to identify use cases for automation and I help kind of, you know, solution the best approach to automation. Uh, and you know, so I actually started, you know, with, with Merck a little bit earlier before it was really formalized and, uh, just CGI is a large partner of merch and embedded within various areas of business. And, you know, I, I ended up educating, uh, CGI on automation and here's what to look for, you know, in a, in a, in a great use case for automation and, you know, really, we started to drum up some internal excitement and then came up with some actual real use cases within Merck, proved it out early. And then we began to partner with, uh, Dan and his team. >>Can you share a little bit about some of those use cases? Yes. >>So, you know, the ones that, uh, we've worked on are really specific within, uh, various areas, uh, within the division. So Dan, you want to talk about some of the >>You're working on yeah, I'll share one use case within a specific market of merch, and it's a commercial area where they were embarking on a revision in their customer engaged engagement approach in this market and where the, they had a problem. They, they needed to get the invoices out of SAP for customers. So that was on the one side of the process on the other was a customer portal where the customers needed access near real time to those invoices. So when they came to us, they had the invoices kind of set up to be emailed out of SAP. So they had that process set up. The problem is how do they get them over here into this customer portal? Say the backup plan was to have a temporary workers come on and do that manually handle the open emails with the invoices attachments and get them loaded. >>So we came in, uh, they called us in, in the 11th hour and we were able to, fortunately that the process was straightforward, uh, whereas invoices were coming through, uh, an email attachment and that was set up. So basically we automated the reading of the emails, the processing of the PDF attachments and saved them into a shared drive where there was another process to load them into SAP. So the volume was really large on a daily basis. Initially it was estimated at approximately 2,500 emails per day with these invoices. Um, so that would estimate it would take about 125 hours of people time to do that manually. Um, so that's what we automated. And in the end it was the averages it's over 3000 a day. So, um, the solution really came in and, and we were able to deliver that. And it's been a really, they were, they were static with what they could do, and then they saw the art of the possible with, with this automation. So it's a good success story. And, um, it's exciting to see, and they were thrilled >>And it's not an uncommon story, right. Where you're automating mundane tasks that was pushing a lot of paper, a lot of copy and pasting. Um, do you see how far away, and maybe we're there already? You think about mark it's it's uh, in a, in a unique industry, we've got, got highly skilled scientists too in serious R and D high risk trials. You got partners, you do some organic, some inorganic, you've got the manufacturing components. So a lot of different parts to the business. And when you think about saving time, as you think about some of the, the scientists that are working on various pipeline products, highly paid, if you can save more of their time, wow. That even drops more to the bottom line. Are we at that point yet? We heard the stats this morning. It was 2% or some single digit percentage of our processes are automated. How far away are we from attacking those types of automations? Are we there today? >>Uh, we do automations for all the, all the functions across Merck. Um, in some places adoption is farther along than others in their journey, but yeah, um, from the shop floor and the manufacturing sites, we found opportunities to, to introduce automation there. And even in the, in the labs in various capacities, see the use cases continue to grow and the adoption continue. We see that growing as well. >>Do you find that the, the highly skilled, uh, automations targeted at highly skilled folks are, are harder to sort of get your hands around, but they give you bigger ROI? Or is it not the case? Is it all sort of earn and burn? >>Yeah, from my perspective, I think it's, you know, use case by use case. Like if it's a, a complex use case, it requires, you know, more advanced capabilities, uh, you know, machine learning models, you know, leveraging, uh, you know, AI center within UI path, uh, you know, those they can, you know, provide, you know, fairly sizeable ROI, but I think is for those highly skilled workers, I'll give one example is, you know, out in, out in the labs, we, we helped, you know, automate some things that, you know, just made their life easier, right. Uh, you know, tests running overnight, if something failed, uh, with, with a test that was happening, then, you know, they, they wouldn't know about it and they lose critical data for, for these early tests that they're doing in, in the, in the preclinical cycle. So we actually put in a UI path robots to, to monitor and send alerts and provide recovery to make their lives a lot easier. Uh, so they don't have to worry about things, you know, failing in the middle of the night, you have a UI path robot, you know, supporting them in that map, that aspect, >>What's an automation, architecture look like we, where do we start architecting automation? >>Well, I think the journey, uh, so where do you start with an automation? Right. It's really understanding the use case. It comes down to what is the, the end to end process, and then where, where can we automate, uh, within that process and what is the right set of automation capabilities? So, you know, RPA is great for, you know, um, where we get, where we need to interact with user interfaces. But if we can, uh, you know, interact with API APIs, we would do that. You know, preferably over a UI is, is to keep, keep it more of a seamless integration. But I think it's about understanding the process, laying out the right solution, uh, if there's an opportunity to improve the process prior to automating it, you know, if there's, if there is that ability, then we'll look to do that. And we've done that. We may change that process, uh, up a little bit, just to make automation more efficient, more effective. Uh, and so, and then it just, we built it and we deploy it and they start to realize the value >>Hard. Is it dental prove the, on the versus just automating what's, what's known. In other words, you've got dependencies and there are complexities there w what's your experience in terms of how you approached it >>From my experience and what we found to be best practice and bill touched on it. But every use case is of course different than the, the corresponding process. Very, very varied, but really what's key, I think, is to right upfront, understand the end to end process. And a lot of cases, my team it's new to us, right. But the process owners, they live it every day. So understanding, partnering with them to really understand the end to end solution in the form of like a process map. So you can kind of echo back your understanding of their process and get that nod of the head from them and say, yes, you understand that this is an accurate representation. Then we can with the spirit of trying to get it right the first time. And, but it really, I think is incumbent upon us to really get that in-depth understanding upfront. And a lot of cases, if there's time sensitivity in the end, it's just more efficient and saves a lot of rework. So, >>So working backwards, sorry, at least working backwards from the known existing process and then implementing an automation is probably the best starting point, as opposed to trying to work backwards from some kind of the outcome that you envision. But, but I would think there's attractiveness in the, in the ladder. Right. So that you're not just repeating a process that may be outdated. >>Yeah. So your, uh, it comes down to a couple of things. So when you're initially looking at a process, you know, should we automate this or not? And how complex is it? You need to understand what is the potential benefit. So, you know, how much, uh, you know, how much time am I able to, uh, you know, have those workers reinvest into other areas of work, right. Or what other, what are some other benefits? Uh, you know, there, there may be some, uh, you know, compliance fines that were experienced through automation, we're able to, you know, to make sure we're meeting SLS and so on. Uh, so you is a lot to, you know, defining the benefits, the automation, putting a value to that. And then the process of going through the actual process, understand the complexity, right? And then you can come up with, you know, here's, here's what it's gonna take to build this thing. Here's the potential value. And then we have ways where we track, you know, what's, how has that ROI trending once it's in production? Uh, so we'll be, that gives us more insight. >>Dan, I've got a question for you. One of the conversations that Dave and I had earlier on the program was about automation as a boardroom topic. I'd love to get your perspectives. Merck is a history organization, been around for a long time. Cultural change is incredibly challenging, but I'd love to get your perspective on where is automation at Merck's board. Is that something that is really key to transformation? >>I'd say automation falls under our strategic initiative, just around digital digital transformation, right? So it's a sub pillar of that. So that is a strategic imperative and very important. And just being a more efficient and, and leveraging technology effectively, um, just to make merch more efficient and, and, and optimized and RPA and automation plays a part in that. I mean, >>That's what I suspected Lisa this morning when we have in that conversation, it seems to me that you wouldn't necessarily create an automation stove pipe at the board meeting. You might want to report on how these automations have affected, whether it's the income statement or the health of the company, et cetera. But it seems to me to be a fundamental part of the digital transformation, um, which involves a lot of different things, data and cloud and strategy and it et cetera. So is that pretty >>Common bill? Yeah, I, yes, it is. I mean, when, when an organization is looking to automate there's, you know, various angles are coming out, they're coming from the top-down approach where, you know, management saying, Hey, we need to, we need to automate what's, let's look across all the divisions and, and figure out where, where we should go. But then it's also, you know, bottom up where, you know, folks out in, out within the various lines of business know, they, they know the problems. They know, they know the business processes. So there's a couple of different angles where, you know, you you're able to discover new opportunities to automate. Uh, but those also those smaller ones opened the door to understanding, you know, much larger processes where we can look, you know, automate more of the upstream or downstream in that process. Are there variations of the process? So >>Was, was merch more bottom-up or top-down or middle out? I wouldn't say it's >>Started bottoms up. That's really out there. It came from the top-down. So as bill touched on, I think it's really key that we do have, uh, from, from this coming from the top, from our leadership is endorsing it and advocating it, but also we're on the, on the ground floor and educating. So the people with the hands-on doing the process, they understand it and the word is spreading. They see we've, we've made it real for them. Now it's real for them, and they can appreciate the value. And they're happy to be able to do more, to be freed up from the tedious tasks and do more interesting work. >>So we did start in the department, there was a champion with a budget who said, Hey, I'm going to try this and then look what I got. Yeah, >>Yeah. You definitely need the champion. So part of that is creating champions out in the different business lines to truly own the pipeline and understand the opportunities are out there and say, yeah, this is a good opportunity. This, this one let's look at it later. So you definitely have to have those folks out there that, that understand the technology, but also understand the business. >>How has that changed in the last 18 months with healthcare care undergoing such? I mean, my goodness, the things that have happened in a healthcare organization, how has that accelerated the need for things like automation, Christian, for both of you and for mark as well? Yeah. >>Yeah. So mark initiated, uh, like most companies that digital transformation, three, three plus years ago, and this just became an extension of that. And, and it's, it's a, it's a must, right? Just to stay up with the, the digital transformation and everything that's happening in this world. And, and obviously, uh, COVID accelerated, helped accelerate it in certain areas and made it real for a lot of people and appreciate the value and the need for it. >>Yeah. W within CGI, just across all of our clients, it's automation is really towards the top of the list of strategic priorities. So it's, so we've seen this massive just acceleration of, of needing to automate more and more and more, you know, which is, which is great. >>What's it like inside a merch these days, you guys must be really excited with all that. I mean, I know it's early days and nothing has been fully blessed yet, but I mean, you know, some of the big has got a lot of headlines and obviously, you know, we've been taking jabs, et cetera, but, but now here's Merck in the headlines. It's, it's gotta be an exciting time for you guys. >>Yeah. It's, it's great to be part of a company whose mission is to save and improve lives and right. It's um, with today, it's, it's really becoming real and more relevant, uh, of that mission and vision. So it's exciting. >>There were any gotchas when you go into this, I'm sure there are into this automation journey. What kinds of things would you advise people, Hey, make sure that you deal with these, whether it's an audit scope, consideration or things that you definitely don't want to do, or do you want to do? >>Yeah. It just comes down to the, you know, choosing the right use case to start with. Right. Making sure that you, if you're just starting out in your automation journey, you know, start with those use cases that you can quickly prove value for and then tackle the more complex ones. That's good >>For folks to know where to start, especially when there's still such a tumultuous environment that we're living in. Dan and bill. Thank you for joining Dave and Manet, talking about automation, the innovation that you're doing at Merck partnering with CGI really appreciate >>Your time. Thanks for having us >>For Dave Volante. I'm Lisa Martin, coming to you from windy, chilly Las Vegas. We are at UI path forward for stick around Dave and I will be right back with our next guest.

(Upbeat intro music) >> Thanks guys. Hi everybody. Welcome back to The Spheres. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCubes continuous coverage of AWS storage day. I'm really excited to bring on Wayne Duso. Wayne is the vice-president of AWS Storage Edge and Data Governance Services. Wayne, two Boston boys got to come to Seattle to see each other. You know. Good to see you, man. >> Good to see you too. >> I mean, I'm not really from Boston. The guys from East Boston give me crap for saying that. [Wayne laughs] That my city, right? You're a city too. >> It's my city as well I'm from Charlestown so right across the ocean. >> Charlestown is actually legit Boston, you know I grew up in a town outside, but that's my city. So all the sports fan. So, hey great keynote today. We're going to unpack the keynote and, and really try to dig into it a little bit. You know, last 18 months has been a pretty bizarre, you know, who could have predicted this. We were just talking to my line about, you know, some of the permanent changes and, and even now it's like day to day, you're trying to figure out, okay, you know, what's next, you know, our business, your business. But, but clearly this has been an interesting time to say the least and the tailwind for the Cloud, but let's face it. How are customers responding? How are they changing their strategies as a result? >> Yeah. Well, first off, let me say it's good to see you. It's been years since we've been in chairs across from one another. >> Yeah. A couple of years ago in Boston, >> A couple of years ago in Boston. I'm glad to see you're doing well. >> Yeah. Thanks. You too. >> You look great. (Wayne Laughs) >> We get the Sox going. >> We'll be all set. >> Mm Dave you know, the last 18 months have been challenging. There's been a lot of change, but it's also been inspiring. What we've seen is our customers engaging the agility of the Cloud and appreciating the cost benefits of the Cloud. You know, during this time we've had to be there for our partners, our clients, our customers, and our people, whether it's work from home, whether it's expanding your capability, because it's surging say a company like zoom, where they're surging and they need more capability. Our cloud capabilities have allowed them to function, grow and thrive. In these challenging times. It's really a privilege that we have the services and we have the capability to enable people to behave and, execute and operate as normally as you possibly can in something that's never happened before in our lifetimes. It's unprecedented. It's a privilege. >> Yeah. I mean, I agree. You think about it. There's a lot of negative narrative, in the press about, about big tech and, and, and, you know, the reality is, is big tech has, has stood and small tech has stepped up big time and we were really think about it, Wayne, where would we be without, without tech? And I know it sounds bizarre, but we're kind of lucky. This pandemic actually occurred when it did, because had it occurred, you know, 10 years ago it would have been a lot tougher. I mean, who knows the state of vaccines, but certainly from a tech standpoint, the Cloud has been a savior. You've mentioned Zoom. I mean, you know, we, productivity continues. So that's been, been pretty key. I want to ask you, in you keynote, you talked about two paths to, to move to the Cloud, you know, Vector one was go and kind of lift and shift if I got it right. And then vector two was modernized first and then go, first of all, did I get that right? And >> Super close and >> So help me course correct. And what are those, what are those two paths mean for customers? How should we think about that? >> Yeah. So we want to make sure that customers can appreciate the value of the Cloud as quickly as they need to. And so there's, there's two paths and with not launches and, we'll talk about them in a minute, like our FSX for NetApp ONTAP, it allows customers to quickly move from like to like, so they can move from on-prem and what they're using in terms of the storage services, the processes they use to administer the data and manage the data straight onto AWS, without any conversion, without any change to their application. So I don't change to anything. So storage administrators can be really confident that they can move. Application Administrators know it will work as well, if not better with the Cloud. So moving onto AWS quickly to value that's one path. Now, once they move on to AWS, some customers will choose to modernize. So they will, they will modernize by containerizing their applications, or they will modernize by moving to server-less using Lambda, right? So that gives them the opportunity at the pace they want as quickly or as cautiously as they need to modernize their application, because they're already executing, they're already operating already getting value. Now within that context, then they can continue that modernization process by integrating with even more capabilities, whether it's ML capabilities or IOT capabilities, depending on their needs. So it's really about speed agility, the ability to innovate, and then the ability to get that flywheel going with cost optimization, feed those savings back into betterment for their customers. >> So how did the launches that you guys have made today and even, even previously, do they map into those two paths? >> Yeah, they do very well. >> How so? Help us understand that. >> So if we look, let's just run down through some of the launches today, >> Great. >> And we can, we can map those two, those two paths. So like we talked about FSX for NetApp ONTAP, or we just like to say FSX for ONTAP because it's so much easier to say. [Dave laughs] >> So FSX for ONTAP is a clear case of move. >> Right >> EBS io2 Block Express for Sand, a clear case of move. It allows customers to quickly move their sand workloads to AWS, with the launch of EBS direct API, supporting 64 terabyte volumes. Now you can snapshot your 64 terabyte volumes on-prem to already be in AWS, and you can restore them to an EBS io2 Block Express volume, allowing you to quickly move an ERP application or an Oracle application. Some enterprise application that requires the speed, the durability and the capability of VBS super quickly. So that's, those are good examples of, of that. In terms of the modernization path, our launch of AWS transfer managed workflows is a good example of that. Manage workflows have been around forever. >> Dave: Yeah. >> And, and customers rely on those workflows to run their business, but they really want to be able to take advantage of cloud capabilities. They want to be able to, for instance, apply ML to those workflows because it really kind of makes sense that their workloads are people related. You can apply artificial intelligence to them, >> Right >> This is an example of a service that allows them to modify those workflows, to modernize them and to build additional value into them. >> Well. I like that example. I got a couple of followup questions, if I may. Sticking on the machine learning and machine intelligence for a minute. That to me is a big one because when I was talking to my line about this is this, it's not just you sticking storage in a bucket anymore, right? You're invoking other services: machine intelligence, machine learning, might be database services, whatever it is, you know, streaming services. And it's a service, you know, there it is. It's not a real complicated integration. So that to me is big. I want to ask you about the block side of things >> Wayne: Sure >> You built in your day, a lot of boxes. >> Wayne: I've built a lot of boxes. >> And you know, the Sand space really well. >> Yeah. >> And you know, a lot of people probably more than I do storage admins that say you're not touching my Sand, right? And they just build a brick wall around it. Okay. And now eventually it ages out. And I think, you know, that whole cumbersome model it's understood, but nonetheless, their workloads and our apps are running on that. How do you see that movement from those and they're the toughest ones to move. The Oracle, the SAP they're really, you know, mission critical Microsoft apps, the database apps, hardcore stuff. How do you see that moving into the Cloud? Give us a sense as to what customers are telling you. >> Storage administrators have a hard job >> Dave: Yeah >> And trying to navigate how they move from on-prem to in Cloud is challenging. So we listened to the storage administrators, even when they tell us, No. we want to understand why no. And when you look at EBS io2 Block Express, this is in part our initial response to moving their saying into the Cloud super easily. Right? Because what do they need? They need performance. They need their ability. They need availability. They need the services to be able to snap and to be able to replicate their Capa- their storage. They need to know that they can move their applications without having to redo all they know to re-plan all they work on each and every day. They want to be able to move quickly and confidently. EBS io2 Block Express is the beginning of that. They can move confidently to sand in the Cloud using EBS. >> Well, so why do they say 'no'? Is it just like the inherent fear? Like a lawyer would say, don't do that, you know, don't or is it just, is it, is it a technical issue? Is it a cultural issue? And what are you seeing there? >> It's a cultural issue. It's a mindset issue, but it's a responsibility. I mean, these folks are responsible for the, one of the most important assets that you have. Most important asset for any company is people. Second most important asset is data. These folks are responsible for a very important asset. And if they don't get it right, if they don't get security, right. They don't get performance right. They don't get durability right. They don't get availability right. It's on them. So it's on us to make sure they're okay. >> Do you see it similar to the security discussion? Because early on, I was just talking to Sandy Carter about this and we were saying, you remember the CIA deal? Right? So I remember talking to the financial services people said, we'll never put any data in the Cloud. Okay they got to be one of your biggest industries, if not your biggest, you know customer base today. But there was fear and, and the CIA deal changed that. They're like, wow CIA is going to the Cloud They're really security conscious. And that was an example of maybe public sector informing commercial. Do you see it as similar? I mean there's obviously differences, but is it a sort of similar dynamic? >> I do. I do. You know, all of these ilities right. Whether it's, you know, durability, availability, security, we'll put ility at the end of that somehow. All of these are not jargon words. They mean something to each persona, to each customer. So we have to make sure that we address each of them. So like security. And we've been addressing the security concern since the beginning of AWS, because security is job number one. And operational excellence job number two. So, a lot of things we're talking about here is operational excellence, durability, availability, likeness are all operational concerns. And we have to make sure we deliver against those for our customers. >> I get it. I mean, the storage admins job is thankless, but the same time, you know, if your main expertise is managing LUNs, your growth path is limited. So they, they want to transform. They want to modernize their own careers. >> I love that. >> It's true. Right? I mean it's- >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, if you're a storage administrator today, understanding the storage portfolio that AWS delivers will allow you, and it will enable you empower you to be a cloud storage administrator. So you have no worry because you're, let's take FSX for ONTAP. You will take the skills that you've developed and honed over years and directly apply them to the workloads that you will bring to the Cloud. Using the same CLIs, The same APIs, the same consoles, the same capabilities. >> Plus you mentioned you guys announced, you talked about AWS backup services today, announced some stuff there. I see security governance, backup, identity access management, and governance. These are all adjacency. So if you're a, if you're a cloud storage administrator, you now are going to expand your scope of operations. You, you know, you're not going to be a security, Wiz overnight by any means, but you're now part of that, that rubric. And you're going to participate in that opportunity and learn some things and advance your career. I want to ask you, before we run out of time, you talked about agility and cost optimization, and it's kind of the yin and the yang of Cloud, if you will. But how are these seemingly conflicting forces in sync in your view. >> Like many things in life, right? [Wayne Laughs] >> We're going to get a little spiritually. >> We might get a little philosophical here. [Dave Laughs] >> You know, cloud announced, we've talked about two paths and in part of the two paths is enabling you to move quickly and be agile in how you move to the Cloud. Once you are on the Cloud, we have the ability through all of the service integrations that we have. In your ability to see exactly what's happening at every moment, to then cost optimize, to modernize, to cost optimize, to improve on the applications and workloads and data sets that you've brought. So this becomes a flywheel cost optimization allows you to reinvest, reinvest, be more agile, more innovative, which again, returns a value to your business and value to your customers. It's a flywheel effect. >> Yeah. It's kind of that gain sharing. Right? >> It is. >> And, you know, it's harder to do that in a, in an on-prem world, which everything is kind of, okay, it's working. Now boom, make it static. Oh, I want to bring in this capability or this, you know, AI. And then there's an integration challenge >> That's true. >> Going on. Not, not that there's, you know, there's differences in, APIs. But that's, to me is the opportunity to build on top of it. I just, again, talking to my line, I remember Andy Jassy saying, Hey, we purposefully have created our services at a really atomic level so that we can get down to the primitives and change as the market changes. To me, that's an opportunity for builders to create abstraction layers on top of that, you know, you've kind of, Amazon has kind of resisted that over the years, but, but almost on purpose. There's some of that now going on specialization and maybe certain industry solutions, but in general, your philosophy is to maintain that agility at the really granular level. >> It is, you know, we go back a long way. And as you said, I've built a lot of boxes and I'm proud of a lot of the boxes I've built, but a box is still a box, right? You have constraints. And when you innovate and build on the Cloud, when you move to the Cloud, you do not have those constraints, right? You have the agility, you can stand up a file system in three seconds, you can grow it and shrink it whenever you want. And you can delete it, get rid of it whenever you want back it up and then delete it. You don't have to worry about your infrastructure. You don't have to worry about is it going to be there in three months? It will be there in three seconds. So the agility of each of these services, the unique elements of all of these services allow you to capitalize on their value, use what you need and stop using it when you don't, and you don't have the same capabilities when you use more traditional products. >> So when you're designing a box, how is your mindset different than when you're designing a service? >> Well. You have physical constraints. You have to worry about the physical resources on that device for the life of that device, which is years. Think about what changes in three or five years. Think about the last two years alone and what's changed. Can you imagine having been constrained by only having boxes available to you during this last two years versus having the Cloud and being able to expand or contract based on your business needs, that would be really tough, right? And it has been tough. And that's why we've seen customers for every industry accelerate their use of the Cloud during these last two years. >> So I get that. So what's your mindset when you're building storage services and data services. >> So. Each of the surfaces that we have in object block file, movement services, data services, each of them provides very specific customer value and each are deeply integrated with the rest of AWS, so that when you need object services, you start using them. The integrations come along with you. When, if you're using traditional block, we talked about EBS io2 Block Express. When you're using file, just the example alone today with ONTAP, you know, you get to use what you need when you need it, and the way that you're used to using it without any concerns. >> (Dave mumbles) So your mindset is how do I exploit all these other services? You're like the chef and these are ingredients that you can tap and give a path to your customers to explore it over time. >> Yeah. Traditionally, for instance, if you were to have a filer, you would run multiple applications on that filer you're worried about. Cause you should, as a storage administrator, will each of those applications have the right amount of resources to run at peak. When you're on the Cloud, each of those applications will just spin up in seconds, their own file system. And those file systems can grow and shrink at whatever, however they need to do so. And you don't have to worry about one application interfering with the other application. It's not your concern anymore. And it's not really that fun to do. Anyway. It's kind of the hard work that nobody really you know, really wants to reward you for. So you can take your time and apply it to more business generate, you know, value for your business. >> That's great. Thank you for that. Okay. I'll I'll give you the last word. Give us the bumper sticker on AWS Storage day. Exciting day. The third AWS storage day. You guys keep getting bigger, raising the bar. >> And we're happy to keep doing it with you. >> Awesome. >> So thank you for flying out from Boston to see me. >> Pleasure, >> As they say. >> So, you know, this is a great opportunity for us to talk to customers, to thank them. It's a privilege to build what we build for customers. You know, our customers are leaders in their organizations and their businesses for their customers. And what we want to do is help them continue to be leaders and help them to continue to build and deliver we're here for them. >> Wayne. It's great to see you again. Thanks so much. >> Thanks. >> Maybe see you back at home. >> All right. Go Sox. All right. Yeah, go Sox. [Wayne Laughs] All right. Thank you for watching everybody. Back to Jenna Canal and Darko in the studio. Its Dave Volante. You're watching theCube. [Outro Music]

>> Narrator: From the CUBE Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston. Connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hi, everybody. Welcome to the special Cube Conversation. With COVID-19 hitting, organizations really had to focus on business resiliency, and we've got two great guests here to talk about that topic. Bob Bender's the chief technology officer at Founders Federal Credit Union. And he's joined by Jim Shook, who is the director of cybersecurity and compliance practice at Dell Technologies. Gentlemen, thanks for coming on the CUBE, great to see you. >> Thanks, Dave, great to see you, thank you. So, Bob, let's start with you, give us a little bit of background on Founders and your role. >> Founders Federal Credit Union is a financial institution that has about 225,000 members, serving them in 30 different locations, located in the Carolinas. I serve as chief technology officer bringing in the latest technology and cyber resilient direction for the company. >> Great. And Jim, talk about your role. Is this a new role that was precipitated by COVID or was this something that Dell has had for a while? Certainly relevant. >> It's actually been around for a while, Dave. The organization invested in this space going back about five years, I founded the cyber security and compliance practice. So really, my role is most of the time in the field with our customers, helping them to understand and solve their issues around the cyber resilience and cyber recovery field that we're talking about. But I also, to do that properly, spend a lot of time with organizations that are interested in that space. So it could be with an advisory partner, could be the FBI, might be a regulator, a particular group like Sheltered Harbor that we've worked with frequently. So it's just really, as you point out, taken off first with ransomware a couple of years ago, and then with the recent challenges from work from home in COVID. So we're really helping out a lot of our customers right now. >> Bob, I've talked privately to a number of CIOs and CSOs and many have said to me that when COVID hit that their business continuance was really much too (voice cuts out) Now, you guys actually started your journey way back in 2017. I wonder if you could take us back a few years and what were the trends that you were seeing that precipitated you to go on this journey? >> Well, I think we actually saw the malware, the horizon there. And I'll take you back a little further 'cause I just love that story is, when we looked at the relationship of Dell EMC, we talked to the 1% of the 1%, who is protecting their environment, their data capital, the new critical asset in our environment. And Dell EMC was the top of the line every time. When we looked at the environment and what it required, to put our assets under protection, again, we turned to Dell EMC and said, where do we need to go here? You look at this Mecklenburg County, you look at the city of Atlanta, you look at Boeing and I hate to use the examples, but some very large companies, some really experienced companies were susceptible to this malware attacks that we just knew ourself it was going to change us. So the horizon was moving fast and we had to as well. >> Well, you were in a highly regulated industry as well. How did that factor into the move? Well, you're exactly right. We had on our budget, our capital budget horizon, to do an air gap solution. We were looking at that. So the regulatory requirements were requiring that, the auditors were in every day talking about that. And we just kept framing that in what we were going to do in that environment. We wanted to make sure as we did this purpose built data bunker, that we looked at everything, talk to the experts, whether that was federal state regulation. You mentioned Sheltered Harbor, there's GDPR. All these things are changing how are we going to be able to sustain a forward look as we stand this environment up. And we also stood up a cyber security operations center. So we felt very confident in our Runbooks, in our incident response, that you would think that we would be ready to execute. I'll share with you that we reached out every which way and a friend called me and was actually in a live ransomware event and asked if I wanted to come on to their site to help them through that incident. We had some expertise on our staff that they did not possess at that time. So going into that environment, spending 30 hours of the last 72 hours of an attack we came back changed. We came back changed and went to our board and our executives and said, "We thought we knew what we were doing." But when you see the need to change from one to 10 servers recovery to 300 in 72 hours, we just realized that we had to change our plan. We turned to the investment we had already made and what we had looked at for some time, and said, "Dell EMC, we're ready to look at that "PowerProtect Cyber Recovery solution. "How can you stand this up very quickly?" >> So, Jim, Bob was saying that he looked at the 1% of the 1%, so these guys are early adopters, but anything you can add to that discussion in terms of what you saw precipitate the activity, let's go pre-COVID, certainly ransomware was part of that. Was that the big catalyst that you saw? >> It really was. So when we started the practice, it was following up on the Sony Pictures attack, which only hit Sony in that. But it was unique in that it was trying to destroy an organization as opposed to just steal their data. So we had financial industry really leading the way, the regulators in the financial industry saying, "Gosh, these attacks could happen here "and they would be devastating." So they led the way. And as our practice continued, 2016 became the year of ransomware and became more prevalent, with the attackers getting more sophisticated and being able to monetize their efforts more completely with things like cryptocurrencies. And so as we come around and start talking to Bob, he still was well ahead of the game. People were talking about these issues, starting to grow concerned, but didn't really understand what to do. And Dave, I know we'll get to this a little bit later, but even today, there's quite a bit of disconnect, many times between the business, understanding the risks of the business and then the technology, which really is the business now, but making those pieces fit together and understanding where you need to improve to secure against these risks is a difficult process. >> Well, I think I'd love to come back to Bob and try to understand how you pitch this to the board, if you will, how you made the business case. To Jim's point, the adversaries are highly capable. It's a lucrative business. I always talk to my kids about ROI numerator and denominator. If you can raise the denominator, that's going to lower the value. And that's the business that you're in is making it less attractive for the bad guys. But how did you present this to the board? Was it a board level discussion? >> It was, exactly. We brought Dell EMC PowerProtect Cyber Recovery solution to them and said, not only you're experiencing and seeing in the news daily, these attacks in our regions, but we have actually gone out into an environment and watch that attack play out. Not only that is when we stepped away, and we ran through some tabletops with them and we stepped away. And we said, "Are you okay? "Do you know how it got in? "Are you prepared to protect now and detect that again?" Within 30 days, they were hit again by the same ransomware attacks and hackers. So I hate to say this, but I probably fast forwarded on the business case and in the environment, the horizon around me, players, they made my case for me. So I really appreciated that top down approach. The board invested, the executive invested, they understood what was at risk. They understood that you don't have weeks to recover in the financial institution. You're dealing with hundreds of thousand transactions per second so it made my case. We had studied, we had talked to the experts. We knew what we wanted. We went to Dell EMC and said, "I have six months and here's my spend." And that's from equipment hitting our CoLOS and our data centers, standing it up, standing up the Runbooks and it's fully executed. And I wanted an environment that was not only holistic. We built it out to cover all of our data and that I could stand up the data center within that environment. I didn't need another backup solution. I needed a cyber recovery environment, a lifestyle change, if you would say. It's got to be different than your BCP/DR. While it inherits some of those relationships, we fund it with employees separately. We treated the incident response separately, and it is really benefited. And I think we've really grown. And we continue to stress that to educate ourselves not only at the board level, but a bottom up approach as well with the employees. 'cause they're a part of that human firewall as well. >> I think you've seen this where a lot of organizations, they do a checkbox on backup or as I was saying before, DR. But then in this world of digital, when a problem hits, it's like, "Oh-oh, we're not ready." So I wonder Jim, if we can get into this solution that Bob has been talking about the Dell EMC PowerProtect Cyber Recovery solution, there's a mouthful there. You got the power branding going on. What is that all about? Talk to us about the tech that's behind this. >> It's something that we've developed over time and really added to in our capability. So at its core, PowerProtect Cyber Recovery is going to protect your most critical data and applications so that if there is a cyber attack, a ransomware or destructive attack, they're safe from that attack. And you can take that data and recover the most important components of the business. And to do that, we do a number of things, Dave. The solution itself takes care of all these things. But number one is we isolate the data so that you can't get there from here. If you're a bad actor, even an insider, you can't get to the data because of how we've architected. And so we'll use that to update the critical applications and data. Then we'll lock that data down. People will use terms like immutability or retention lock. So we'll lock it down in that isolated environment, and then we'll analyze it. So it's one thing to be able to protect the data with the solution, it's another, to be able to say that what I have here in my data vault, in my air gapped isolated environment is clean. It's good data. And if there was an attack, I can use that to recover. And then of course over time, we've built out all the capabilities. We've made it easier to deploy, easier to manage. We have very sophisticated services for organizations that need them. And then we can do a much lighter touch for organizations that have a lot of their built in capabilities. At its core, it's a recover capability so that if there was an attack that was unfortunately successful, you don't lose your business. You're not at the mercy of the criminals to pay the ransom. You have this data and you can recover it. >> So Bob, talk to us about your objectives going into this. It's more than a project. It really is a transformation of your resiliency infrastructure, I'll call it. What were your objectives going in? A lot of companies are reacting, and it's like, you don't have time to really think. So what are the objectives? How long did it take? Paint a picture of the project and what it looked like, some of the high level milestones that you were able to achieve. >> Well, I think several times Dell EMC was able to talk us off the edge, where it really got complicated. The Foundation Services is just one of your more difficult conversations, one of the top three, definitely, patch management, notification, and how you're going to rehydrate that data, keeping that window very small to reduce that risk almost completely as you move. I think other area this apply is that we really wanted to understand our data. And I think we're on a road to achieving that. It was important that if we were going to put it into the vault, it had a purpose. And if we weren't going to put it in a vault, let's see why would we choose to do that? Why would we have this data? Why would we have this laying around? Because that's a story of our members, 225 stories. So their ability to move into financial security, that story is now ours to protect. Not only do we want to serve you in the services and the industry and make sure you achieve what you're trying to, but now we have that story about you that we have to protect just as passionately. And we had that. I think that was two of the biggest things. I think the third is that we wanted to make sure we could be successful moving forward. And I'll share with you that in the history of the credit union, we achieved one of the biggest projects here, in the last two years. That umbrella of the Cyber Recovery solution protection was immediate. We plugged in a significant project of our data capital and it's automatically covered. So I take that out of the vendor of responsibility, which is very difficult to validate, to hold accountable sometimes. And it comes back under our control into this purpose built data security and cyber resilient, business strategy. That's a business strategy for us is to maintain that presence. So everything new, we feel that we're sized, there's not going to be a rip and replace, a huge architectural change because we did have this as an objective at the very beginning. >> Tim, when you go into a project like this, what do you tell customers in terms of things that they really should be focused on to have a successful outcome? >> I'm going to say first that not everybody has a Bob Bender. So we have a lot of these conversations where we have to really start from the beginning and work through it with our customers. If you approach this the right way, it's really about the business. So what are the key processes for your business? It can be different from a bank than from a hospital than from a school point. So what are the key things that you do? And then what's the tech that supports that and underlies those processes? That's what we want to get into the vault. So we'll have those conversations early on. I think we have to help a lot of organizations through the risks too. So understand the risk landscape, why doing one or two little things aren't really going to protect you from the full spectrum of attackers. And then the third piece really is, where do we start? How do we get moving on this process? How do we get victory so that the board can understand and the business can understand, and we can continue to progress along the way? So it's always a bit of a journey, but getting that first step and getting some understanding there on the threat landscape, along with why we're doing this is very important. >> So, Bob, what about any speed bumps that you encountered? What were some of those? No project is ever perfect. What'd you run into? How'd you deal with it? >> Well, I would say the Foundation Services were major part of our time. So it really helped for Dell EMC to come and explain to us and look at that perimeter and how our data is brought into that and size that for us and make sure it's sustainable. So that is definitely, could be a speed bump that we had to overcome. But today, because of those lifts, those efforts invested the Runbooks, the increase in new products, new data as our business organically grows is a non-event. It's very plug and play and that's what we wanted from the start. Again, you go back to that conversation at 1% of the 1%, it's saying, who protects you? We followed that. We stayed with the partner we trusted, the horizon holistically has come back and paid for itself again and again. So speed bumps, we're just enjoying that we were early adapters. I don't want to throw anybody out there, but you look about two weeks ago, there was a major announcement about an attack that was successful. They got them with ransomware and the company paid the ransom. But it wasn't for the ransomware, it was for the data they stole so that they would delete it. That's again, why we wanted this environment is we needed time to react in the case that these malwares are growing much faster than we're capable of understanding how they're attacking. Now it's one, two punch, where's it going to be? Where is it going to end? We're not going to likely be patient zero, but we're also not going to have to be up at night worrying that there's a new strain out there. We have a little time now that we have this secure environment that we know has that air gap solution that was built with the regulatory consideration, with the legal considerations, with the data capital, with the review of malware and such. You can go back in time and say, "Scan to see if I have a problem. So again, the partnership is while we focus on our business, they're focusing on the strategy for the future. And that's what we need. We can't be in both places at once. >> How long did the project take from the point of which you agreed, signed the contract to where you felt like you were getting value out of the solution? >> Six months. >> Really? >> We were adamant. I'd put it off for a year and a half, that's two budget cycles basically is what it felt. And then I had to come back and ask for that money back because we felt so passionate that our data, our critical data didn't need to be at that risk any longer. So it was a very tight timeline. And again, product on prem within six months. And it was a lot of things going on there. So I just wasn't idle during that time. I was having a conversation with Dell EMC about our relationship and our contracts. Let's build that cyber resilience into the contract. Now we've got this, PowerProtect Cyber Recovery environment, let's build it here where you also agree to bring on extra hardware or product if I need that. Let's talk about me being on a technology advisory panel So I can tell you where the pricing of the regulations are going, so you can start to build that in. Let's talk about the executive board reporting of your products and how that can enable us. We're not just talking about cyber and protecting your data. We're talking about back then 60% of your keep the lights on IT person will spend with auditors, talking about how we were failing. This product helped us get ahead of that to now where we're data analytic. We're just analysts that can come back to the business table and say, "We can stand that up very quickly." Not only because of the hardware and the platform solution we have, but it is now covered with a cyber resilience of the the cyber security recovery platform. >> I want to ask you about analytics. Do you feel as though you've been able to go from what is generally viewed as a reactive mode into something that is more anticipatory or proactive using analytics? >> Well, I definitely do. We pull analytics daily and sometimes hourly to make sure we're achieving our KPIs. And looking at the KRIs, we do risk assessments from the industry to make sure if our controls layer of defenses are there, that they will still work what we stood up three years ago. So I definitely think we've gone from an ad hoc rip and replace approach to transformation into a more of a threat hunting type of approach. So our cyber security operation center, for us, is very advanced and is always looking for opportunities not only to improve, to do self-assessments, but we're very active. We're monetizing that with a CUSO arm of the credit union to go out and help others where we're successful, others that may not have that staff. It's very rewarding for us. And I hate to say it sometimes it's at their expense of being in-evolved in the event of a ransomware attack or a malware event. We learned so much the gaps we have, that we could take this back, create Runbooks and make the industry stronger against these types of attacks. >> Well, so Jim, you said earlier, not every company has a Bob Bender. How common is it that you're able to see customers go from that reactive mode into one that is proactive? Is that rare or is it increasingly common? It can't be a 100%, but what are you seeing as trends? >> It's more common now. You think of, again, back to Bob, that's three plus years ago, and he's been a tireless supporter and tireless worker in his industry and in his community, in the cyber area. And efforts like those of Bob's have helped so many other organizations I think, understand the risks and take further action. I think too, Bob talks about some of the challenges with getting started in that three year timeframe, PowerProtect Cyber Recovery has become more productized, our practice is more mature. We have more people, more help. We're still doing things out there that nobody else is touching. And so we've made it easier for organizations that have an interest in this area, to deploy and deploy quickly and to get quick value from their projects. So I think between that some of the ease of use, and then also there's more understanding, I think, of what the bad actors can do and those threats. This isn't about somebody maybe having an outage for a couple of hours. This is about the very existence of a business being threatened. That if you're attacked, you might not come back from it. And there've been some significant example that you might lose hundreds of millions of dollars. So as that awareness has grown, more and more people have come on board and been able to leverage learnings from people like Bob who started much earlier. >> Well, I can see the CFO saying, "Okay, I get it. "I have no choice where we're going to be attacked. "We know that, I got to buy the insurance. You got me." But I can see the CFO saying, "Is there any way we can "get additional value out of this? "Can we use it to improve our processes and cut our costs? "Can we monetize this in some way?" Bob, what's the reality there? Are you able to find other sources of value beyond just an insurance policy? >> Definitely, Dave you're exactly right. We're able to go out there and take these Runbooks and really start to educate what cyber resilience means and what air gap means, what are you required to do, and then what is your responsibility to do it. When you take these exercises that are offered and you go through them, and then you change that perspective and go through a live event with other folks that see that after 60 hours of folks being up straight, it really changes your view to understand that there's no finish line here. We're always going to be trying to improve the product and why not pick somebody that you're comfortable with and you trust. And I think that's the biggest win we have from this is that was a Dell EMC partnership with us. It is very comfortable fit. We moved from backup and recovery into cyber resilience and cybersecurity as a business strategy with that partner, with our partner Dell, and it hasn't failed us. It's a very comforting. We're talking about quality of life for the employee. You hear that, keep the lights on. And they've really turned into professionals to really understand what security means differently today and what that quality of data is. Reports, aren't just reports, they're data capital. The new currency today of the value we bring. So how are we going to use that? How are we going to monetize that? It's changing. And then I hate to jump ahead, but we had our perimeters at 1% of our workforce remote and all of a sudden COVID-19 takes on a different challenge. We thought we were doing really good and next, we had to move 50% of our employees out in five days. And because of that Dell EMC, holistic approach, we were protected every step of the way. We didn't lose any time saying, we bought the wrong control, the wrong hardware, the wrong software. It was a very comfortable approach. The Runbooks held us, our security posture stayed solid. It's been a very rewarding. >> Well, Bob, that was my next question, actually is because you've started the journey. >> Sorry. >> No, no, it's okay. Because you started the journey early, were you able to respond to COVID in a more fast sell manner? it sounds like you just went right in. But there's nuance there, because you've got now 50% or more of the workforce working at home, you got endpoint security to worry about. You got identity access management, and it sounds like you were, "No problem. "We've got this covered." Am I getting that right? >> You're exactly right, Dave. We test our endpoints daily. We make sure that we understand what residue of data is where. And when we saw that employee shift to a safe environment, our most consideration at that time, we felt very comfortable that the controls we had in place, again, Dell and their business partners who we are going to hold true and be solid. And we test those metrics daily. I get reports back telling me, what's missing in patch management, what's missing in a backup. I'll go back to keeping BCP and cyber security separate. In the vault, we take approach of recovery and systems daily. And now that goes from maybe a 2% testing rate almost to 100% annually. So again, to your point, COVID was a real setback. We just executed the same Runbooks we had been maturing all along. So it was very comfortable for employees and it was very comfortable for our IT structure. We did not feel any service delays or outages because of that. In a day, when you have to produce that data, secure that data, every minute of every day of every year, it's very comforting to know it's going to happen. You don't push that button and nothing happens. It's executed as planned. >> Jim, did you see a huge spike in demand for your services as a result of COVID and how did you handle it? You guys got a zillion customers, how did you respond and make sure that you were taking care of everybody? >> We really did see a big spike, Dave. I think there were a couple of things going on. As Bob points out, the security posture changes very quickly when you're sending people to work from home or people remotely, you've expanded or obliterated your parameter, you're not ready for it. And so security becomes even more important and more top of mind. So with PowerProtect Cyber Recovery, we can go in and we can protect those most critical applications. So organizations are really looking at their full security posture. What can we do better to detect and protect against these threats? And that's really important. For us, we're focusing on what happens when those fail? And with that extension and people going home, and then the threat actors getting even more active, the possibilities of those failures become more possible and the risks are just in front of everybody. So I think it was a combination of all of those things. Many, many customers came to us very quickly and said, "Tell us more about what you're doing here. "How does it fit into our infrastructure? "What does it protect us against? "How quickly can we deploy?" And so there has been a huge uptake in interest. And we're fortunate in that, as you pointed out early on, Dave, we invested early here. I'm five years into the practice. We've got a lot of people, very mature, very sophisticated in this area, a lot of passion among our team. And we can go take care of all those customers. >> Bob, if you had a mulligan, thinking about this project, what would you do differently if you had a chance to do it over? >> I think I would start earlier. I think that was probably the biggest thing I regret in that realizing you need to understand that you may not have the time you think you do. And luckily, we came to our senses, we executed and I got to say it was with common sense, comfortable products that we already understood. We didn't have to learn a whole new game plan. I don't worry about that. I don't worry about the sizing of the product 'cause we did it, I feel correctly going in and it fits us as we move forward. And we're growing at an increased rate that we may not expect. It's plug and play. Again, I would just say, stay involved, get involved, know that what we know today about malware and these attacks are only going to get more complicated. And that's where I need to spend my time, my group become experts there. Why I really cherish the Dell EMC relationship is from the very beginning, they've always been very passionate on delivering products that recover and protect and now are cyber resilient. I don't have to challenge that, you pay for what you get for. And I just got to say, I don't think there's much other than I would have started earlier. So start today, don't put it off. >> So you said earlier though, you're never done, you never are, in this industry. So what's your roadmap look like? Where do you want to go from here with this capability? >> I definitely want to keep educating my staff, keep training them, keep working with Dell. Again, I tell you they're such forward thinking as a company. They saved me that investment. So if you're looking at part of the investment, it's got to be, are you with a partner that's forward thinking? So we definitely want to mature this, challenge it, keep challenging, keep working with Dell and their products to deliver more. Again, we go to the federal and state regulatory requirements. You go to the Sheltered Harbor, the ACET testing from the NCUA regulators, just software asset management. You can keep on going down the line. This product, I hate to say it, it's like the iPhone. You think about how many products the iPhone has now made not relevant. I don't even own a flashlight, I don't think. This is what the Dell product line brings to me is that I can trust they're going to keep me relevant so I can stay at the business table and design products that help our members today. >> Jim, how about from Dell's perspective, the roadmap, without giving away any confidential information, where do you want to take this? We talk about air gaps. I remember watching that documentary Zero Days and hearing them say, "We got through an air gap. "No problem." So analytics obviously plays a role in this machine intelligence, machine learning, AI. Where does Dell want to take this capability? Where do you see that going? >> We've got some things in mind and then we're always going to listen to our customers and see where the regulations are going to. And thus far, we've been ahead of those with the help of people like Bob. I think where we have a huge advantage, Dave is with PowerProtect Cyber Recovery. It's a product. So we've got people who are dedicated to this full time. We have a maturity in the organization, in the field to deliver it and to service it. And having something as a product like that really enables us to have roadmaps and support and things that customers need to really make this effective for them. So as we look out on the product, and thanks for your reminder, I don't want to risk saying anything here I'm going to get in trouble for. We look at things in three paths. One is we want to increase the ability for our customers to consume the product. So they want it in different forms. They might want it in appliances, in the Cloud, virtual, all of those things are things that we've developed and continue to develop. They want more capabilities. So they want the product to do more things. They want it to be more secure, and keeping up. As you mentioned, machine learning with the analytics is a big key for us. Even more mundane things like operational information makes it easier to keep the vault secure and understand what's going on there without having to get into it all the time. So those are really valuable. And then our third point, really, we can't do everything. And so we have great partners, whether they're doing delivery, offering cyber recovery as a service or providing secure capabilities, like our relationship with Unisys. They have a stealth product that is a zero knowledge, zero trust product that helps us to secure some of the connections to the vault. We'll keep iterating on all of those things and being innovative in this space, working with the regulators, doing things. Bob's mentioned a couple of times, Sheltered Harbor. We've been working with them for two years to have our product endorsed to their specification. Something that nobody else is even touching. So we'll continue along all those paths, but really following our customer's lead in addition to maybe going some places that they haven't thought about before. >> It's great guys. I have to fear that when you talk to SecOps pros, you ask them what their biggest challenge is, and they'll say lack of talent, lack of skills. And so this is a great example, Jim, you're mentioning it, you've productized this. This is a great example of a technology company translating, IT labor costs into R&D. And removing those so customers can spend time running their business. Bob and Jim, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE. Great story. Really appreciate your time. >> Thank you, Dave. >> Thank you, Dave. >> Thanks, Bob. >> All right. And thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Vellante for the CUBE. We'll see you next time. (instrumental music)

>>from around the >>globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Welcome back to the Cubes Coverage Cube Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 which is also virtual. We're not in person this year. We're doing the remote interviews. But of course, getting all the stories, of course, reinvented, full of partnerships full of news. And we've got a great segment here with Salesforce and AWS. Eileen Schneider Win, who is the senior vice president of strategic partnerships, and Maureen Lundergan, director of worldwide training and certification address. Maureen Eileen. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. And nice keynote. What's up with the partnership? Give us a quick over your lien. What's what's the Salesforce? A day was partnership. Take a minute to explain it. >>Sure, thank you. I think I'll start out by talking about how sales were thinks about strategic partnerships. So for us, it's really it starts with the customer and being where they want us to be. And we've been so fortunate to be in this relationship with AWS for over five years now. It really started out as an infrastructure based partnership as we were seeing customers start their digital transformation journeys and moved to the cloud. But what has been really exciting as we've spent more time working together and working with our customers, we have now started to move into emotion of really bringing some differentiated solutions between the number one CRM and the most broadly adopted cloud platform to market for customers, uh, in areas like productivity, security and training and certification which will talk more about in a bit Onda. Specifically, some of those solutions are service Cloud Voice Product, which we launched this summer, announced last fall, a dream force as well as our private connect product which creates great security between the AWS platform and Salesforce. >>What? Some of the impact area is actually the two clouds you mentioned CRM and Amazon. We're seeing data obviously being a part of the equation ai machine learning. Um, what's been the impact I lean to your customer specifically >>Yeah, so specifically I'd call out to areas what one is really that foundation of security. Specifically, as government regulations and data security has become more critical, we've really been able to partner together there and and that's been crucial for certain customers in certain regions as well a certain industries like government. Uh, in addition, I would call out again that service cloud voice partnership, a zoo. We see the world moving more digital. This really allows customers to go quickly and, uh, turn on. There are solutions from anywhere at any time. >>You know, I love that any time, anywhere kind of philosophy. Now more than ever. With the pandemic collaborations required more than ever, and some people are used to it. You know, I've seen more technical developers have used to working at home, but not everyone else. The workforce still needs to get the job done. So this idea of collaboration, what is the impact in for your customers and how are you guys helping them? Because I think this is a big theme of this year That's gonna not only carry over, even when the pandemics over this idea of anywhere is all about collaboration. >>Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, the exciting thing about the partnership is we've been talking digital transformation with customers for years, but I think what we saw at the beginning of this year, as we were all thrown home and forced Thio, you know, fire up our jobs from our bedrooms or our garages. It really came down to our ability to work quickly and turn on our solutions. It's and these unprecedented times, while we're going through this now, everything we're building really is the future. So it's not just the tools and technology, it's also the processes and how work is getting done that's really come into play. But again, I'll anchor back to that service blood voice solution. So for us, call centers were completely disrupted. You think of call centers and you know, pre 2020 everyone sitting in a room together, agent side by side managers, having the ability to pop over and assist with a call or managing escalation. Now that's been completely disrupted. And it's been very exciting for us to work with our customers, to reimagine what that looks like again both from a technology perspective but also from a process perspective. And along with that, you had to reimagine how employees are learning these solutions and being trained. So we're very grateful for the partnership with AWS, and we're doing some really amazing things together. >>You know this is one of my favorite things about the enablement of Cloud. But in Salesforce has been a pioneer. As you pointed out, this connectedness feature has always been there. Now more than ever, it's highlighted with call centers, not the call center more. It's the connected center. People are connecting. And I think, Maureen, I think last time you're in the Cube. A few years ago, we were talking about virtual training online, and that was pre pet pandemic. Now you're seeing surge of online training not only because people's jobs are changing and being displaced or even shut down. New roles are emerging, right? So the virtual space Virtual world digital world, there's everyone's getting more digital faster now. How has the cove in 19 changed the landscape for training and skills demand? From your perspective, I >>mean at AWS, we've been working on our virtual capabilities for a while, so we had a digital platform out. We had a great partnership, have a great partnership with Salesforce and putting content on trailhead. We had to pivot very rapidly to virtual instructor led training and also our certifications right. We were lucky that our vendors partnered with us rapidly to pivot certification toe proctor environment. And this actually has helped to expand our ability to deliver the both training and certification in locations that we may not have been able to do before. And we have seen while it slowed. Initially, we have seen such an uptake and training over the last, um, 6 to 8 months. It's been incredible. We've been working with our customers. We've been working with our partnerships like Salesforce. We've been pushing more content out. I think customers and partners air really looking for how toe upscale their employees, uh, in a in a way, that is easy for them. And so it's actually been a great surprise to see the adoption of all of our curriculum over the last couple months. >>Well, congratulations knows a lot more work to do. It's gonna get more engaging, more virtual, more rich media. But this idea of connecting lean I wanna get back to the your your thoughts earlier, um, mentioned trailhead. Maury mentioned trailhead. You guys were doing some work with the virtual training there. What? Can you tell us more about that? And how that's going so far? >>Sounds great. So trailhead is our free online learning platform. And it really started because we have a commitment to democratizing anyone's ability to enter our industry s so you could go there and both online or with our trail head go app and experience what we call trails, which our paths for learning again on different areas of knowledge and skills and technology. And late last year, we announced an incredible partnership with AWS, where we're bringing the AWS learning content and certification to trailhead. And this is really again driven by our customers to are asking us to do our part in bringing mawr of these skilled resource is into the ecosystem. But something I also wanna highlight is I feel like this moment that we're in right now has also forced everyone to reimagine how they're doing learning even businesses, how they're training their employees and again having this free platform. And the partnership with AWS has really helped us go very quickly and create a lot of impact with customers. >>I just want to say I love the trailhead metaphor because, you know, learnings nonlinear. It's asynchronous. You've got digital. So you want to take a shortcut? You gotta know the maps And I think that's, you know, people wanna learn versus the linear, you know, tracks on. And I think that's how people have been learning online. And AWS has got a data driven strategy. Marine, I want to get your take on this because as you bring content on the trailhead, can you talk about how that works? And how you working with Railhead? >>Yeah. I mean, we started conversations a couple of years ago, and I think the interesting thing is that Salesforce and AWS have a very similar philosophy about bringing education to anybody who wants it. You'll hear me talk a lot about that in my leadership talk at reinvent, but, um, we really believe that we wanna provide content where learners learn and salesforce and trailhead have this amazing captured audience. And, um, you know, we're really looking at exploring. How do we bring education to people that might not otherwise have access to it? On DSO, we started with really foundational level content, a ws Cloud, Practitioner Essentials and AWS Cloud for technical professionals. And the interesting thing is, both of those courses have been consumed. ITT's not enough to just put it out there you want people to complete the trails and we've seen such an amazing uptake on the courses with, like 85% completion rate on one of the trails and 95% completion rate on the other one. And to keep customers engage is really a credit toe. How trailhead is designed. >>You know, it's interesting. The certification people don't lose sight of the fact that that's kind of the in the end state. Then you start a new trail. I mean, this >>is >>the this is really what it's all about. Can you just share some observations that you've seen for people that are coming into this now to say, Hey, okay, what do I expect? And what are some of the outcomes? >>Yeah, I mean, first, what we're seeing is our customers are being very clear that they need more of these skills. So we're also seeing the need for Salesforce administrators out in our ecosystem. And I think with everything going on this year, it's also an opportunity for people who are looking to pivot. Their careers were moving to tech and again, this free learning platform and the content that we're bringing has been really powerful and again for us. The need for salesforce administrators and cloud practitioners out in our ecosystem are in more demand than ever. >>Maureen. From your perspective on AWS, you see a lot of the new new jobs cybersecurity, Brazilian openings. Where do you see the most needs on for training and certification? Can you highlight some of the areas that are emerging and trending, if you will? >>I would say it's interesting because what we're seeing is is both ends of the spectrum. People that are really trying to just really understand who cloud is, whether it's, ah, business leader within an organization, a finance person, a marketing person. So cloud practitioner, you know, we're seeing huge adoption and consumption on both our platform in on Salesforce. But also some other areas are security and machine learning machine learning. We have five learning paths on our digital platform. We've also extended that content out to other platforms and the consumption rate is significant. And so, you know, I think we're seeing, uh, customers consume that. But the other thing that we're doing is we're really focused on looking at who doesn't have access to education and making sure that's available. So I think the large adoption of Cloud Practitioner in Practitioner is is largely due to the other things that we're doing with programs like Restart our academic programs >>to close it out, Alina want to get your thoughts and final thoughts on the relationship and how people can find more information about this partnership and what it means. Take, take it home. >>Thank you for asking. So just like everything else we've been talking about today, we've had to reimagine how we're showing up at this event together and very exciting thing that my team has created is the AWS Virtual Park. And anyone can access that at salesforce dot com slash aws. So please go check it out. You can experience our products here from our experts and experience its innovation on your own. >>Great insight. Thanks for coming on and participating. Really appreciate Salesforce and AWS two big winning leading clouds working together Trail had great great offering. Thanks for coming on sharing the news. Appreciate >>it. Thank you. >>It's the Cube virtual covering. It was reinvent virtual. Of course. Check out all the information here All three weeks. Walter Wall coverage. I'm John Fury with the Cube. Thanks for watching

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of Dell Technologies. World Digital Experience Brought to You by Dell Technologies. Hello, everyone, and welcome Back to the cubes. Continuing coverage of Del Tech World 2020. This is David Dante With Me is Tom Sweet. He's the EVP and chief financial officer of Dell Technologies. Tom is great to see you. Thanks for coming on The Virtual Cube. >>Dave is always good to see you. And thanks for having me. It's always good to have a conversation with you. >>I actually don't think I've spent a lot of time talking to folks from jail, but I don't think you and I have talked since the pandemic hit. So you know, what's the macro picture? You know, you and I was usually start with the big picture. And, of course, the impact of the pandemic and kind of the big waves that you're seeing out. There may be some of the changes that you're navigating >>Well, you know, it's it's been uninterested near David's. You and I both know, right, and so we way clearly did a number of tactical actions as we worked our way through the pandemic in the early days to make sure our team members could work and we're safe and then pivoted to making sure we could, you know, help our customers and get them up in productive from a work from home perspective, you know? And so it's and then we've evolved into Then, you know, how do you think your way through? Um, you know, what's the what's the work? How do you work your way through? What do you look like on the other end? And so we've been spending a lot of time thinking about investments. Where do we put Capital Toe work to position the organization for success? Post Cobain, whenever that might be, by the way, and and so that's been the focus in, you know, really spending a lot of time on investment areas. The whole macro dynamic has been interesting is, you know, way went through this huge trough in Q two in terms of GDP and global GDP. You know, we're working our way out of that at a macro level. It's very interesting as you go across the globe and look at the various countries and regions and how they're recovering at very different paces. You know, the business has been uninterested in business in terms of what we do, and our PC business has been quite strong. And we've seen a big shift with the work from home and learn from home dynamics with strong demand from government and education. Three infrastructure business R I s G business has been a bit softer, just a zoo Companies have pivoted, but all in all, I think we're working our way through it. I e think the actions we took to preserve liquidity and protect the P and L early in the pandemic have paid off for us. And, uh, we're now focused on how do we position Post Post when we get through this whole cova dynamic? >>You know, way both seen a couple of pretty severe downturns. I think about the dot com downturn and then the financial crisis. I'm actually kind of surprised and impressed the way that that not just our industry, but all industries have worked through this. I guess in hindsight, that shouldn't be surprising given the pace of technology. But I remember those two that I just mentioned. People were flat footed. I remember Ed Zander joking when he was a son. Anybody wanna buy a server? And it was just there was business wasn't being transacted. And that's different this time around, Uh, industries have have responded and you know, technology, of course, is is at the heart of that. But were you surprised at all by the by the pace of I don't want to say recovery, but resiliency, I guess >>a little bit to be honest day. I mean I mean, it does highlight the fact that at the heart of what most companies are you know are doing these days is technology and how they evolve their business model, how how they interact with their customers. And so clearly, if you you think all the way back with our industry date back to the early two thousands and we had a with the bump with the dot com bust and people shut down, I t spending, you know. And now I don't think you can really do that if you think about where you need to be from a business model perspective. So I think there's been a maturation and a recognition that technology plays a key role. But But it has been surprising about how fast it's pivoted. To be honest with you in the sense of, you know, I think of the very distinct cycles is would come through the Coba dynamic. Big PC demand early innings. You know, we saw some recovering the I S G spend in Q two in our quarter second quarter a little bit better than Q one. You know, as companies readjusted spin eso, it's The organizations across in our customer base have have adjusted quite well. Clearly, there is vertical implications. If you're in the airline industry or some of the hospitality, you're you're being a bit more cautious, right? But all in all, it's been a It's been an interesting journey for all of us. >>Yeah, I mean, at the height of the pandemic, you saw, you know, some people taking actions. Obviously, they were freezing I t projects. They were starting to do layoffs or freezing new hires. That's moderated based on the data that we've seen. I just published the other day that we're starting to see some, you know, slow thawing of that tight grip on I t. What are you seeing? Both externally and maybe as the CFO. What are you doing internally? Well, >>if you talk to my CEO should probably give you a different answer day that I'm about to give you because you know, I'm a extraordinarily balanced guy in my point of view, right? But, you know, look, I think externally we're seeing targeted investments happening by customers that are moving projects forward. I think there's a bit of caution, and I do think this whole evolution off. How do customers want to consume? I t is evolving, you know. Is it a cat expand? Is it a Is it a financing structure? Is it a as a service and consumption model type? You know, So those three economic models around I t. Or changing and evolving. But I think overall, what we've seen is some level off, you know, cautious, you know, cautiousness. But yet, you know, targeted and investment with our customers and in an internally, Quite frankly, we're continuing to invest. We have capabilities that we need to evolve. You know, we're working. We're very focused on transformational projects that enable our customers to do business with us easier. On the other hand, we're being very tight around. What do I need to do from, You know, some of those old run the business types spend and how doe I streamline that while still supporting the business properly. So it's a bit of a balance right now. >>Yeah, and you obviously have the advantage of large portfolio parts of your portfolio exposed. Like you said, some of the on Prem stuff. But then you've got the certainly the laptop in the work from home shift. A couple of questions there. One is, first of all, you know, Della was largely a larger work from home culture than the average. The average Let's say the average is on a 15 to 20% of employees work from home. You're probably higher than that. And and But now we're seeing that people are expecting at least double that long term are gonna work from home. So you were, you know, somewhat, maybe more prepared than than most. But then again, you have that tailwind on one side of your business. Your supply chain did very well, unlike some of your competitors that we saw early in the pandemic, you know? So it seems like you've managed that pretty well. Maybe your thoughts. >>Yeah. Okay. We do have a culture that provided flexibility. We've been on this journey for roughly 10 years about having our people have some flexibility where they work. And so we had roughly 20 25,000 people working remotely, or some are in some hybrid fashion before the pandemic. You know, obviously, right now, 90% of our workforce is is remote. We think, you know, post pandemic, you know that it's gonna look like something like, you know, you know, 45 50% of the organization is probably gonna be in some sort of hybrid or remote setting. You know, that's the feedback our team members are giving us. And, uh and so you know, we have been fortunate to be able to have the culture that pivoted quite frank quite quickly, I should say, as we worked our way through this from a supply chain perspective Look our supply chain has done. Team has done a terrific job on sort of navigating the barriers and the challenges put up by a covert 19 crisis. But I'll go further back that if you and I talked about this before, think about what's happened with our supply chain and global supply chains over the last couple of years and whether it's the US China dynamic and how do you work your way through that? You know, and how do you ensure continuity of supply for our customers? And so that that teams done a great job? You know, we have long term relationships with many of our key suppliers, which has been helpful. And, you know, as you know, we have one of the largest, if not the largest, technology by in the industry. So it has helped us in terms of making sure we have capability and availability for custom. >>Let's talk a little bit about some of the strategy and the value levers that you guys talk about. You've always hit on industry consolidation, integration delivering. You've seen the 13 D with the movie you're gonna make with VM Ware. How have things changed? There has a pandemic changed your thinking at all, And how are you doing in terms of those turning those knobs? >>You know, first, it has not changed our thinking in the sense of some of those keep long term value creation activities we've been focused on and platforms we've been focused on around Hey, you know, we know that in the where we where we sell where we compete, that the industry is not a, you know, a rapidly growing industry. And so you grow organically by consolidation and share gain, and that's what we've been focused on. You couple that with the innovation engine we have with Dell Technologies. And, uh, including our, you know, way need to including that VM ware. You know, we've got a new, extraordinary patent portfolio and we've got these what we think are unique solutions and capability. So we're pushing hard on the innovation engine, and then you couple that with the capital work we've been doing around, how do you delivering the balance sheet? Getting the company reposition back towards investment grade. And we've made really good progress on that. You know will pay down $5.5 billion of debt this year, which will again position us closer to those investment grade like metrics. And so those those platforms are pillars, if you will, of our strategy, haven't changed. But in addition to that, you know, we are looking at where do you grow and how do you continue to grow at a pace, perhaps at GDP GDP plus, which is sort of where we think you know, is the long term framework we've got to be thinking about. So that's where you get into these adjacency is like, How do you How do you further driving a multi cloud hybrid cloud? How do you think about the opportunity with Telco, with five G roll out that's happening across the globe and the investment that's going to go into that the whole edge computing the edge cloud is of interest to us. And so there's a number of these emerging areas that we think are pretty interesting, and their adjacent and fit nicely into what we do is a, you know is, quite frankly, that essential infrastructure company. So that's the focus we've been driving about. How do we set up both continue on our core mission of consolidation, innovation and delivering as well as how do you set up some of these growth vectors as we move forward? >>Well, in one of the other levers you filed the 13 d, I don't know what you can share with us. Some of it gets confused. How much is fact sometimes and how much is speculation. But, I mean, I've said that it appears that one of the things that you're looking at is creating an equilibrium in terms of the balance sheets of both companies. Uh, keep getting them both that investment grade. What can you tell us about what you're thinking there? >>Yeah, I look, you know, obviously we did file a 13 D in mid July, which essentially said we were contemplating whether you know, a potential spin of our 81% ownership interest out to the Dell Technology shareholders. And so we're continuing to work with the VM Ware team on, you know, what does that look like with a couple of fundamental principles, which is Hey, you know, we have both benefited from this better together story. And so how do we keep that differentiation in some type of a long term operating agreement or operating framework? But at the same point in time, you know, you know, do the potentially look at it spend that unlocks value for both sets of shareholders of both companies, right? VM ware gets additional flexibility from a from a strategic perspective, they don't have the Dell balance sheet. Dell Technologies balance sheets sitting on top of them from the Dell Technologies perspective. You know, we presumably as part of this would be some type of a dividend stream. But by being were out to its share. What shareholders? We get the opportunity to accelerate our delivering story and get back closer to investment grade or right at investment grade, depending upon how this all works out. So we think there's a number of really interesting value levers here, right at the same point in time, wanting to protect what's been really good about the relationship in the way we've gone to market, the way we've innovated. And so that's the balance were walking right now. And you know there's work to do is we work with being where to see. If this makes sense, can we get it done? But But we're early innings and and we may end up not doing anything honestly, But I mean, that's that's sort of the thinking that we're working through right now. >>Well, it's an interesting thought exercise, if nothing else. And so e I look at it when when you combine del in the M. C when you did the acquisition. Now you became VM Ware's most important partner. Just even if it's in terms of revenue because you've got a massive distribution channel. So there's there's that inherent value in that relationship, independent of anything else. The flip side of that is VM Ware has been, you know, awesome acquire of companies. Uh, you know, inorganic r and D, if you will. And some pretty cool R and D A Z Well, so it's gonna be really interesting toe watch how that plays out. I think we wait and see. That's a comment, you know, >>we're working through it and we'll see where we end up. But, you know, you've highlighted a couple of great points. I mean, our, you know, our go to market reach, you know, it is extraordinary. And VM Ware has benefited from that. We've benefited from the VM Ware relationship with some of their technologies is we've integrated those into our combined solution. So it's been a it's been a win win, and that's the balance of how do you keep that, Aziz. Well, as you know, quite frankly, provide some value back to your shareholders. >>Well, we've seen that not just the the uplift of the market. But clearly the speculation has caused some unlocking of value and may bring some others from the sidelines. But I wanted to ask you about I've been talking about this automation mandate. I think there was one. Certainly. There was one before the pandemic, and now it's even accentuated. Um, can you talk a little bit about how you're applying automation, thio your business and maybe what you're seeing with customers? How that could affect, you know, the long term productivity of your business? Maybe new ways to work. What can you tell us there? >>Yeah, Look, I mean, we we have a pretty significant automation agenda within Dell Technologies, both from an internal perspective as well as the automation and a I am and machine learning capabilities were embedding into our solutions to help our customers Dr their automation agendas. Internally, what we've been focused on is how do I simplify? How do I take complexity out? You know, how doe I providing a richer mawr interactive experience with our customers? How doe I lean into service needs service capabilities, all those areas that are ripe for automation and my finance organization alone Right now, I think I have over 125 automation projects going right now is we? We look at how we simplify from a customer. Perspective is I go out and talk to customers. They're also doing much the same thing that we're doing, which is how did they take complexity out of their process? How do they streamline? How are they? How do they drive? Responsiveness and customer, uh, you know, customer experience at a much higher level. And so it's all you know. It's all war walking down this pathway of process simplification, automation, which includes technology, investment, obviously which is, you know, helpful from our perspective. And so there's a agenda out there is Aziz. We talked with customers in terms of in a commonality as we talked with customers. And then the other point I'd give you Dave, is that just as you think about, you know, as I talked to my peers out in the industry, I mean, many of us are driving automation agendas. Have a lot of that, you know, with focused on taking touch out, enrichment of job and capabilities, enrichment of, you know, we gotta build skill sets to drive that. So there is a big theme across the industry in this area, and I think it's gonna do nothing but accelerate. Quite frankly, Aziz, we work our way forward. >>Yeah, I've talked to a bunch of customers in this topic, and it seems to be sort of three paths. Actually, one path is there's. There's a lot of low hanging fruit and easy wins. And but the problem with that is a lot of times it's just paving the cow path with automation. You know, the other is you got to do the hard work of really digging into the process and the third that I've seen, which is kind of interesting to which is kind of what you're alluding to is your free up. You know, some of the mundane tasks, and you let the people who really understand the process rethink that process. And then you go into a deeper automation agenda, and that seems toe that will turn millions into billions. >>That's the value. Add their game. I mean, it's that third framework that you laid out, which is you have to do the work around process. But then again, how doe I then you know over time is I is. I have the experts help us on the automation capabilities. Once we've identified, what are the appropriate processes or functions to be automated? How do you then pivot resource tomb or higher value add activity across the organization and that Z when you when you do that, you unlock, I think, a terrific value creation opportunity, which we're very focused on. >>And I know there's always a big concern about jobs with automation. But the reality is, if you look at the data from the U. S. And Europe of the last couple of decades, the productivity trend is clear. It's it's gone down. And if you think about the big problems that we face in the world, whether it's climate change, your national debt or health care, you know you know hunger, you just can't throw people at that problem. You gotta have a combinations of people in machines. And so well, there may be, you know, a short term impact. I'm kind of an optimist. I know you are a swell >>No, it Zuno. Obviously, this is a tough time for a lot of businesses and customers. As we work our way through the pandemic and and including, you know, and and some have adjusted their workforce, you know, and part of its from the economic reality. But part of it is also a skill set. Dynamic is a reshaping workforce. And but I do think automation plays a key role. And how do you enable skill sets to evolve and get again re allocated Thio other value creation activity. So there is, you know, unfortunately, are probably gonna be some short term disruptions in certain areas. But on the other hand, if you think about the long term gain and the productivity gains that we all need to drive, you know you can't do it without automation and thinking your way through streamlining and taking complexity out of the organization. >>So my last question has come back the productivity We're talking about work from home. Do you feel like you've had a bump in productivity? As a result? Maybe there was some short term disruption. But you know, what's your what's your data or your gut say, in terms of the impact on your organization and then maybe on your customers as well in terms of the program. So >>I think it's been fairly similar between us and our customers. I waas concerned when we went to a work from home back in March that we were gonna lose productivity and, you know, and I thought it was gonna be a productivity drain, you know, a czar. Team members were juggling work and their family dynamics and situation is in. Obviously in the middle of that are in the early innings of this covert crisis. What we have seen, in fact, is actually, we've seen productivity improved pre Koba to where we are today. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we're giving our team members one flexibility on how they do their job. But we're giving them time back there, and they're not commuting. There's less meetings that are consuming time, you know, and the responsiveness in the capabilities of the order such that we're moving through decisions and projects. I think, at a faster pace, quite frankly. And so it's been an interesting and, I think to me a bit of a surprising result from what we've seen as I talked to customers and I'm the executive sponsor on a number of extraordinary, very large multinational customers. It's pretty much the same response. You know, the similar experience, right, that they've seen similar results that we have. So now what you don't want this to be is that you're doing it on the backs of the team members working 15 or 16 hours a day. You've got to find the right balance. But the fact that we're giving them flexibility to jump out during the middle of Daito tend to some family members or help with, you know, their Children's learning. Then they're back in maybe a little bit later during the day. I mean, I do think that we've been able to a culture that's pretty interesting that is paying dividends for us right now. >>Yeah, it's ironic that this hit at the beginning of of 2020 it's clear that it's gonna be a different decade than it was last decade, which I guess every decade is Tom Tom Sweet. It was great to have you on the Cube. Thanks so much. Always a pleasure speaking with you. >>Always, always great to see you. Thanks for having me. >>You're welcome. And thank you for watching everybody says Dave Volonte, you're watching our coverage, the cubes coverage of del Tech World 2020. But right back after this short break

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back, I'm still minimum and this is the Cubes coverage of VM World 2020 our 11th year doing the Cube. First year. We're doing it, of course, virtually globally. Happy to welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni, Shannon Champion, and she is the director of product marketing with Dell Technologies. Shannon, Nice to see you and thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks for having me. Good to see you as well. >>Alright, So big thing, of course, at VM World, talking about building off of what was Project Pacific at last year's show? Talking about how kubernetes all the wonderful cloud native pieces go in. So let's let's talk about application modernization. Shannon, you know, with a theme I've talked about for a number of years, is you know, we need to modernize the platform, and then we can modernize the applications on top of those. So tell us what you're hearing from your customers and how Delon vm, where then, are bringing the solutions to help customers really along that journey. >>Yeah, I'd love Thio. It's fun stuff. So, um, enterprises are telling us that especially now more than ever, they're really looking for how they must digitally transform. And they need to do that so they can drive innovation and get a competitive advantage on one way. That they're able to do that is by finding ways to flexibly and rapidly move work loads to where they make sense, whether that's on premises or in the public cloud. And the new standard for doing this is becoming cloud native applications. There was a recent I. D. C. Future Escape that predicted that by 2025 2 3rd of enterprises will be prolific software producers with code being deployed on a daily basis, and over 90% of applications at that time will be delivered with cognitive approaches. So it's just kind of crazy to think, and what's really impressive to is that the sheer volume of applications that are anticipated to be produced with these cloud native approaches Ah, it's expected to be over 500 million new APS created with cognitive approaches by 2024 just kind of putting that into perspective 500 million. APS is the same number that's been created over the last 40 years. So it's a fun, fun trend to be part of. >>Yeah, it's really amazing. When I talked to customers, there's some It's like, Oh, let me show you how Maney APs I've done and created in the last 18 months. It was like, Great. How does that compare before? And they're like, we weren't creating APS. We were buying APS. We were buying software. We had outsourced some of those pieces. So you know that that that trend we've been talking about for a number of years is kind of everyone's a software company, Um, does not mean that, you know, we're getting rid of the old business models. But Shannon, there are challenges there either expanding and moving faster or, you know, making sure that I have the talent in house. So bring us inside. What if some of the big things that your customers are telling you, uh, maybe that's holding them back from unlocking that central? >>Yeah, totally. You hit on a couple of them, you know, we're definitely seeing a lot of interest in adoption of kubernetes and clearly VM Ware is leading the way with Changzhou. But we're also hearing that they're underestimating the challenges on how toe quote unquote get to kubernetes. Right? How do you stand up that full cloud native staff and particularly at scale Thio? How do you manage the ongoing operations and maintain that infrastructure? How do you support the various stakeholders? How do you bring I t operators and developers together? Eso There's really a wide range of challenges that, um businesses air facing. And the other thing is that you hit on, you know, they're going to be producing mawr and Mawr cloud native applications, but they still need to maintain legacy applications, many of which are driving business, critical applications and workloads. So they're going to need to look for solutions that help them manage both and allow them to re factor or retire those legacy ones at their own pace so they can maintain business continuity. >>Yeah, and of course, Shannon, we know as infrastructure people, our job was always toe, you know, give the environment to allow the applications to run in virtualization. For years, it was Well, I knew if I virtualized something, I could leave it there and it wasn't going to. It didn't have to worry about the underlying hardware changes. Help us understand How does kubernetes fit into this environment? Because, as I said that people don't want to even worry about it. And the infrastructure people now need to be able to change, expand and, you know, respond to the business so much faster than we might have in times past. >>Yeah, so from an infrastructure perspective, working with VM ware based on tons of really the essence of that is to bring I t operators and developers together. The infrastructure has a common set of management that, you know, each the developer and the I t operators can work in the language there most familiar with. And, you know, the communication of the translation all happens within Tan Xue so that they're more speaking the same, um, language when it comes Thio, you know, managing the infrastructure in particular with VM ware tansy on VX rail. We are delivering kind of a range of infrastructure options because we know people are still trying to figure out you know, where they are in their kubernetes readiness path. Some people have really developed mature capabilities in house for who were Netease for software defined networking. And for those customers, they still may want Thio. You know, use a reference architecture er and build on top of the ex rail for, you know, a custom cloud native specific application. What we're finding is more and more customers, though, don't have that level of kubernetes expertise, especially at scale. And so VM ware v sphere with Tan Xue on VX rail as well as via more cloud foundation on VX rail are ways Thio get a fast start on kubernetes with directly on these fair or kind of go with the full Monty of VM or Cloud Foundation on VX rail. >>Well, we're bringing up VX rail. Of course. The whole wave of h C I was How do we enable simplicity? We don't wanna have to think about these. We wanna, uh, just make it so that customers can just buy a solution. Of course. VX rail joint solution, you know, heavily partnership with VM ware. So, Shannon, there's a few options. VM has been moving very fast toe expand out that the into portfolio, uh, back at the beginning of the year when the sphere seven came out. You needed the BMR Cloud Foundation. Which, of course, what was an option for for for the VX rail. So help us understand you laid out a little bit some of those options there. But what should I know as Adele customer, Uh, you know what my options are? How the fault Kansas Wheat fits into it. >>Yeah, eso We like to call it kubernetes your way with the ex rail. So we have a range of options to fit your operational or kubernetes scale requirements or your level of expertise. So the three options, our first for customers that are looking for that tested, validated, multi configuration reference architectures er that will deliver platform as a service or containers is a service. We've got Tom to architecture for VX rail, which is a new name for what was known as pivot already architecture er and then for customers that may have minimum scaling requirements. They may have some of that expertise in house to manage at scale. The fastest path to get started with kubernetes is the new VM ware V sphere with Changzhou on VX rail. And then last I mentioned kind of that full highly automated turnkey on promises Cloud platform. That's the VM, or Cloud Foundation, on VX rail, which is also known as Dell Technologies Cloud Platform. And that option supports Tan Xue with software defined networking and security built in with that automated lifecycle management across the full stack. So there's really three paths to it from a reference architecture approach to a fast path on the actual clusters all the way to the full Deltek Cloud platform. And Dell Technologies is the first and only really offering this breath of tans. You infrastructure deployment options. Eso customers can really, uh, choose the best path for them. >>Yeah, So, Shannon, if if I If I think back to what we saw in the keynote, you know, VM Ware lays out there, they're hybrid and multi cloud solution. So of course they're they're public cloud the VM ware cloud on a W s. They have that solution. They have extended extended partnerships. Now, with azure uh, the the the offering with Oracle. Uh, that's coming, and I guess I could think to just think of the delta cloud on VX rail as just one of those other clouds in that hybrid and multi cloud solutions. Do I have that right? Same stack. Same management. If I'm if I'm living in that VM world world. >>Yeah. So the Deltek Cloud platform is an on premises hybrid cloud. So, you know, ah, lot of customers were looking to reduce complexity really quickly especially, you know, with some of the work from home initiatives that were sprung upon us and trying to pivot, um to respond to that. And, you know, the answer to solving some of that complexity is to jump into public cloud. What we found is a lot of customers actually are driving a hybrid cloud strategy and approach. And we know many customers sort of have that executive mandate. There's value in, um, driving that are on prem hybrid cloud approach. And that's what Dell Technologies Cloud platform is. So you get the consistent operations in the consistent infrastructure and more of the public cloud like consumption experience while having the infrastructure on Prem for security data locality. Other, um, you know, cost reasons like that. Eso That's really where VM or Cloud Foundation on VF Trail comes into play eso leveraging the VM ware technologies you have on Prem Hybrid cloud. It can connect all those public cloud providers that you talked about. So you have, you know, core to cloud on Dwan. Of the new capabilities that VM or Cloud Foundation, is announced support for is remote clusters. So that takes us kind of from cloud all the way toe edge because you now have the same VCF operational capabilities and operational efficiency with centralized management for remote locations. >>Wonderful. I'm glad you brought up the edge piece. Of course, you talk to the emerging space vm ware talking about ai talking about EJ, so help us understand. How much is it? The similar operational model? Is it even eyes that part of the VX rail family? What's the What's the state of the state in 2020 when it comes to how edge fits into that cloud core edge discussion that you just raised? >>Yeah, when you look at trends, especially for hyper converged edge and cloud native are kind of taking up a lot of the airwaves right now. Eso hyper converge is gonna play a big role in Theodore option of both cloud native Band Edge. And I think the intersection of those two comes into play with things like the remote cluster support for VM Ware Cloud Foundation on VX rail, where you can run cloud, you know, cloud native based modern applications with Tan Xue alongside traditional workloads at the edge, which traditionally have more stringent requirements. Less resource is maybe they need a more hardened environment, power and cooling, you know, um, constraints. So with VCF on VX rail, you have all the operational goodness that comes from the partnership in the levels of integration that we have with VM Ware. And customers can sort of realize that promise of full workload management mobility in a true hybrid cloud environment. >>Shannon I'm wondering what general feedback you're getting from your customers is as they look at a zoo, said these cloud native solutions. You know what's what's the big take away? Is this a continuation of the HD I wave that you've seen? Do they just pull this into their hybrid environments? Um, I'm wondering if you have any either any specific examples that you've been anonymized or just the general gestalt that you're getting from your customers. Is that how they're doing expanding, uh, into these, you know, new environments that kind of stretch them in different ways. >>Yeah, it's interesting because you know, there's there's customers that run the gamut when we look at those that are sort of the farther down their digital transformation journey. Those are the ones that were already planning for cloud native applications or had some in development. Uh, there's also some trends that we're seeing based on, you know, the the size of cluster deployments and the range of, you know, various configurations that are an indicator of those customers that are more modernized in terms of their approach to cloud native. And what we find from those customers, especially over the last six months, is that they're more prepared to respond to the unknown on bond. That was a big lesson for some of the other customers that you know, had new. The digital transformation was the way of the future, but hadn't yet sort of come up with a strategy on how to get there themselves were finding those customers are inhibiting their investments to areas that can help them be more ready for the unknown in the future. In Cloud native is top of that list. >>Absolutely. Shannon Day Volante showed a few times There's the people in the office, you know, with their white board doing everything. And there's the wrecking ball of covert 19. Kind of like Well, if you weren't ready and you weren't already down this path, you better move fast. Wonderful. All right, Shannon. So we know, uh, from past years, you know, VX rail. Usually it's all over the show. So in the digital world, what do you want to he takeaways. What are some of the key? You know, hands on demos, sessions that that people should check out. >>Thank you. Yeah. So hopefully your take away is that the X ray is a great infrastructure to support modern applications. First and foremost, we have, you know, a jointly engineered system built with VM ware, four VM ware environments to enhance fam. Where, and we do that with our the extra LHC I system software, which I didn't give a shout out to yet, which extends that native capabilities and really is the secret behind how we do seamless automated operational experience with the ex rail. And that's the case, whether it's traditional or modern applications. So that's my little commercial for VX rail at the show. Please tune into our VM World session on this topic. We also have hands on labs. We are launching a fun augmented reality game. Eso Please check that out on. We have a new Web page as well that you could get access to all the latest assets and guides that help you, you know, navigate your journey for cloud native. And that's at dell technologies dot com slash Hangzhou. >>Wonderful. Well, Shannon Champion, thanks so much. Great to see you again. And be short. Uh, we look forward to hearing more in the future. >>Thanks to >>stay with us. Lots more coverage from VM World 2020. I'm stew. Minimum is always thank you for watching the Cube.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of VM World 2020 brought to you by VM Ware and its ecosystem partners. Welcome back, I'm still minimum and this is the Cubes coverage of VM World 2020 our 11th year doing the Cube. First year. We're doing it, of course, virtually globally. Happy to welcome back to the program. One of our Cube alumni, Shannon Champion, and she is the director of product marketing with Dell Technologies. Cannon. Nice to see you and thanks so much for joining us. >>Thanks for having me. Good to see you as well. >>Alright, So big thing, of course, at VM World, talking about building off of what was Project Pacific at last year's show? Talking about how kubernetes all the wonderful cloud native pieces go in. So let's let's talk about application modernization. Shannon, you know, with a theme I've talked about for a number of years, is you know, we need to modernize the platform, and then we can modernize the applications on top of those. So tell us what you're hearing from your customers and how Delon Vm Ware then are bringing the solutions to help customers really along that journey. >>Yeah, I'd love Thio. It's fun stuff. So, um, enterprises are telling us that especially now more than ever, they're really looking for how they must digitally transform. And they need to do that so they can drive innovation and get a competitive advantage on one way. That they're able to do that is by finding ways to flexibly and rapidly move work loads to where they make sense, whether that's on premises or in the public cloud. And the new standard for doing this is becoming cloud native applications. There was a recent I. D. C. Future Escape that predicted that by 2025 2 3rd of enterprises will be prolific software producers with code being deployed on a daily basis, and over 90% of applications at that time will be delivered with cognitive approaches. So it's just kind of crazy to think, and what's really impressive to is that the sheer volume of applications that are anticipated to be produced with these cloud native approaches Ah, it's expected to be over 500 million new APS created with club approaches by 2024 just kind of putting that into perspective 500 million. APS is the same number that's been created over the last 40 years. So it's a fun, fun trend to be part of. >>Yeah, it's really amazing. When I talked to customers, there's some It's like, Oh, let me show you how Maney APs I've done and created in the last 18 months. It was like, Great. How does that compare before? And they're like, we weren't creating APS. We were buying APS. We were buying software. We have outsourced some of those pieces. So you know that that that trend we've been talking about for a number of years is kind of everyone's a software company, Um, does not mean that, you know, we're getting rid of the old business models. But Shannon, there are challenges there either expanding and moving faster or, you know, making sure that I have the talent in house. So bring us inside. What if some of the big things that your customers were telling you, maybe that's holding them back from unlocking that potential? >>Yeah, totally. You hit on a couple of them, you know, we're definitely seeing a lot of interest in adoption of kubernetes and clearly vm Ware is leading the way with Changzhou. But we're also hearing that they're underestimating the challenges on how toe quote unquote get to kubernetes. Right? How do you stand up that full cloud native staff and particularly at scale Thio? How do you manage the ongoing operations and maintain that infrastructure? How do you support the various stakeholders? How do you bring I t operators and developers together? Eso There's really a wide range of challenges that, um businesses air facing. And the other thing is that you hit on, you know, they're gonna be producing Mawr and Mawr cloud native applications, but they still need to maintain legacy applications, many of which are driving business critical applications and workloads. So they're going to need to look for solutions that help them manage both and allow them to re factor or retire those legacy ones at their own pace so they can maintain business continuity. >>Yeah, and of course, Shannon, we know as infrastructure people, our job was always toe, you know, give the environment to allow the applications to run in virtualization. For years, it was Well, I knew if I virtualized something, I could leave it there, and it wasn't going to it didn't have to worry about the underlying hardware changes. Help us understand How does kubernetes fit into this environment? Because, as I said that people don't want to even worry about it. And the infrastructure people now need to be able to change, expand and, you know, respond to the business so much faster than we might have in times past. >>Yeah, So from an infrastructure perspective, working with VM ware based on tons of really the essence of that is to bring I t operators and developers together. The infrastructure has a common set of management that, you know, each the developer and the I t operators can work in the language there most familiar with. And, you know, the communication of the translation all happens within Tan Xue so that they're more speaking the same, um, language when it comes Thio, you know, managing the infrastructure in particular with VM ware tansy on VX rail. We are delivering kind of a range of infrastructure options because we know people are still trying to figure out you know, where they are in their kubernetes readiness. Have, um, some people have really developed mature capabilities in house for who were Netease for software defined networking. And for those customers, they still may want Thio. You know, use a reference architecture er and build on top of the ex rail for, you know, a custom cloud native specific application. What we're finding is more and more customers, though, don't have that level of kubernetes expertise, especially at scale. And so VM ware v sphere with Tan Xue on VX rail as well as via more cloud foundation on VX rail are ways Thio get a fast start on kubernetes with directly on these fair or kind of go with the full Monty of B M or Cloud Foundation on BX rail. >>Well, we're bringing up VX rail. Of course. The whole wave of h C I was How do we enable simplicity? We don't wanna have to think about these. We wanna, uh, just make it so that customers can just buy a solution. Of course. VX rail joint solution, you know, heavily partnership with VM ware. So, Shannon, there's a few options. VM has been moving very fast. Expand out that the into portfolio, uh, back at the beginning of the year when the Sphere seven came out. You needed the BMR Cloud Foundation. Which, of course, what was an option for for for the VX rail. So help us understand you laid out a little bit some of those options there. But what should I know as Adele customer, Uh, you know what my options are? How the fault hands a sweet fits into it. >>Yeah, eso we like to call it kubernetes your way with the ex rail. So we have a range of options to fit your operational or kubernetes scale requirements or your level of expertise. So the three options, our first for customers that are looking for that tested, validated multi configuration reference architectures er that will deliver platform as a service or containers is a service. We've got tons of architecture for VX rail, which is a new name for what was known as pivot already architecture er and then for customers that may have minimum scaling requirements, they may have some of that expertise in house to manage at scale. The fastest path to get started with kubernetes is the new VM ware V sphere with Changzhou on VX rail. And then last I mentioned kind of that full highly automated turnkey on promises. Cloud platform. That's the VM, or Cloud Foundation, on VX rail, which is also known as Dell Technologies Cloud Platform. And that option supports Tan Xue with software defined networking and security built in with that automated lifecycle management across the full stack. So there's really three paths to it, from a reference architecture approach to a fast path on the actual clusters all the way to the full Deltek Cloud platform. And Dell Technologies is the first and only really offering this breath of Tanya infrastructure deployment options. Eso customers can really choose the best path for them. >>Yeah, so, Shannon, if if I If I think back to what we saw in the keynote, you know, VM Ware lays out there, they're hybrid and multi cloud solution. So of course they're they're public cloud the VM ware cloud on a W s. They have that solution. They have extended extended partnerships. Now, with azure uh, the the the offering with Oracle that's coming. And I guess I could think to just think of the Delta cloud on VX rail as just one of those other clouds in that hybrid and multi cloud solutions do I have that right? Same stack. Same management. If I'm if I'm living in that VM world world. >>Yeah. So the Deltek Cloud platform is an on premises hybrid cloud. So, you know, ah, lot of customers were looking to reduce complexity really quickly especially, you know, with some of the work from home initiatives that were sprung upon us and trying to pivot to respond to that. And, um, you know the answer toe solving some of that complexity is to jump into public cloud. What we found is a lot of customers actually are driving a hybrid cloud strategy and approach. And we know many customers sort of have that executive mandate. There's value in, um, driving that, um on Prem hybrid cloud approach. And that's what Dell Technologies Cloud platform is. So you get the consistent operations in the consistent infrastructure and more of the public cloud like consumption experience while having the infrastructure on Prem for security data locality There, um, you know, cost reasons like that eso That's really where VM or Cloud Foundation on VF drill comes into play eso leveraging the VM ware technologies you have on Prem hybrid cloud. It can connect all those public cloud providers that you talked about. So you have, you know, core to cloud on day one of the new capabilities that VM or Cloud Foundation is announced support for is remote clusters. So that takes us kind of from cloud all the way toe edge because you now have the same VCF operational capabilities and operational efficiency with centralized management for remote locations. >>Wonderful. I'm glad you brought up the edge piece. Of course, you talk to the emerging space vm ware talking about ai talking about EJ. So help us understand. How much is it? The similar operational model is it even? Is that part of the VX rail family? What's the What's the state of the state in 2020 when it comes to how edge fits into that cloud core edge discussion that you just, uh, raised? >>Yeah. When you look at trends, especially for hyper converged edge and cloud native are kind of taking up a lot of the airwaves right now. Eso hyper converge is gonna play a big role in Theodore option of both cloud native Band Edge. And I think the intersection of those two comes into play with things like the remote cluster support for VM or Cloud Foundation on VX rail where you can run cloud, you know, cloud native based modern applications with thons Ooh, alongside traditional workloads at the edge, which traditionally have more stringent requirements. Less resource is maybe they need a more hardened environment, power and cooling, you know, um, constraints. So with VCF on Vieques, well, you have all the operational goodness that comes from the partnership in the levels of integration that we have with VM Ware. And customers can sort of realize that promise of full workload management mobility in a true hybrid cloud environment. >>Shannon, when I'm wondering what general feedback you're getting from your customers is as they look at a zoo, said these cloud native solutions and you know what's what's the big take away? Is this a continuation of the HD I wave that you've seen? Do they just pull this into their hybrid environments? Um, I'm wondering if you have any either any specific examples that you've been anonymized or just the general gestalt that you're getting from your customers. Is that how they're doing expanding, uh, into these, you know, new environments that kind of stretch them in different ways. >>Yeah, it's interesting because you know, there's there's customers that run the gamut when we look at those that are sort of the farther down their digital transformation journey. Those are the ones that were already planning for cloud native applications or had some in development. Uh, there's also some trends that we're seeing based on, you know, the the size of cluster deployments and the range of, you know, various configurations that are an indicator of those customers that are more modernized in terms of their approach to cloud native. And what we find from those customers, especially over the last six months, is that they're more prepared to respond to the unknown on bond. That was a big lesson for some of the other customers that you know, had new. The digital transformation was the way of the future, but hadn't yet sort of come up with a strategy on how to get there themselves were finding those customers are inhibiting their investments to areas that can help them be more ready for the unknown in the future. In Cloud Native is top of that list. >>Absolutely Shannon Day Volante shown a few times. There's the people in the office, you know, with their white board doing everything. And there's the wrecking ball of covert 19. Kind of like Well, if you weren't ready and you weren't already down this path, you better move fast. Wonderful. All right, Shannon. So we know, uh, from past years, you know, VX rail. Usually it's all over the show. So in the digital world, what do you want? He takeaways. What are some of the key? You know, hands on demos, sessions that that people should check out. >>Thank you. Yeah. So hopefully your take away is that the exhale is a great infrastructure to support modern applications. First and foremost, we have, you know, a jointly engineered system built with VM ware, four VM ware environments to enhance fam. Where, and we do that with our the extra LHC I system software, which I didn't give a shout out to yet, which extends that native capabilities and really is the secret behind how we do seamless automated operational experience with the ex rail. And that's the case, whether it's traditional or modern applications. So that's my little commercial for VX rail at the show please tune into our VM World session on this topic. We also have hands on labs. We are launching a fun augmented reality game. Eso Please check that out on. We have a new Web page as well that you get access to all the latest assets and guides that help you, you know, navigate your journey for cloud native. And that's at dell technologies dot com slash Hangzhou. >>Wonderful. Well, Shannon Champion, thanks so much. Great to see you again. And be short. Uh, we look forward to hearing more in the future. >>Thanks to >>stay with us. Lots more coverage from VM World 2020. I'm stew. Minimum is always thank you for watching the Cube.

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCUBE. Covering the UPGRADE 2020, the NTT Research Summit. Presented by NTT research. >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. Welcome back to our ongoing coverage of UPGRADE 2020. It's the NTT Research Labs Summit, and it's all about upgrading reality. Heavy duty basic research around a bunch of very smart topics. And we're really excited to have our next guest to kind of dive in. I promise you, it'll be the deepest conversation you have today, unless you watch a few more of these segments. So our first guest we're welcoming back Kazuhiro Gomi He's the president and CEO of NTT research, Kaza great to see you. >> Good to see you. And joining him is Yoshi Yamamoto. He is a fellow for NTT Research and also the director of the Physics and Informatics Lab. Yoshi, great to meet you as well. >> Nice to meet you. >> So I was teasing the crew earlier, Yoshi, when I was doing some background work on you and I pulled up your Wikipedia page and I was like, okay guys, read this thing and tell me what a, what Yoshi does. You that have been knee deep in quantum computing and all of the supporting things around quantum heavy duty kind of next gen computing. I wonder if you can kind of share a little bit, you know, your mission running this labs and really thinking so far in advance of what we, you know, kind of experience and what we work with today and this new kind of basic research. >> NTT started the research on quantum computing back in 1986 87. So it is already more than 30 years. So, the company invested in this field. We have accumulated a lot of sort of our ideas, knowledge, technology in this field. And probably, it is the right time to establish the connection, close connection to US academia. And in this way, we will jointly sort of advance our research capabilities towards the future. The goal is still, I think, a long way to go. But by collaborating with American universities, and students we can accelerate NTT effort in this area. >> So, you've been moving, you've been working on quantum for 30 years. I had no idea that that research has been going on for such a very long time. We hear about it in the news and we hear about it a place like IBM and iSensor has a neat little demo that they have in the new sales force period. What, what is, what makes quantum so exciting and the potential to work so hard for so long? And what is it going to eventually open up for us when we get it to commercial availability? >> The honest answer to that question is we don't know yet. Still, I think after 30 years I think of hard working on quantum Physics and Computing. Still we don't know clean applications are even, I think we feel that the current, all the current efforts, are not necessarily, I think, practical from the engineering viewpoint. So, it is still a long way to go. But the reason why NTT has been continuously working on the subject is basically the very, sort of bottom or fundamental side of the present day communication and the computing technology. There is always a quantum principle and it is very important for us to understand the quantum principles and quantum limit for communication and computing first of all. And if we are lucky, maybe we can make a breakthrough for the next generation communication and computing technology based on quantum principles. >> Right. >> But the second, is really I think just a guess, and hope, researcher's hope and nothing very solid yet. >> Right? Well, Kazu I want to go, go to you cause it really highlights the difference between, you know, kind of basic hardcore fundamental research versus building new applications or building new products or building new, you know, things that are going to be, you know, commercially viable and you can build an ROI and you can figure out what the customers are going to buy. It really reflects that this is very different. This is very, very basic with very, very long lead times and very difficult execution. So when, you know, for NTT to spend that money and invest that time and people for long, long periods of time with not necessarily a clean ROI at the end, that really, it's really an interesting statement in terms of this investment and thinking about something big like upgrading reality. >> Yeah, so that's what this, yeah, exactly that you talked about what the basic research is, and from NTT perspective, yeah, we feel like we, as Dr. Yamamoto, he just mentioned that we've been investing into 30 plus years of a time in this field and, you know, and we, well, I can talk about why this is important. And some of them is that, you know, that the current computer that everybody uses, we are certainly, well, there might be some more areas of improvement, but we will someday in, I don't know, four years, five years, 10 years down the road, there might be some big roadblock in terms of more capacity, more powers and stuff. We may run into some issues. So we need to be prepared for those kinds of things. So, yes we are in a way of fortunate that we are, we have a great team to, and a special and an expertise in this field. And, you know, we have, we can spend some resource towards that. So why not? We should just do that in preparation for that big, big wall so to speak. I guess we are expecting to kind of run into, five, 10 years down the road. So let's just looking into it, invest some resources into it. So that's where we are, we're here. And again, I I'm, from my perspective, we are very fortunate that we have all the resources that we can do. >> It's great. Right, as they give it to you. Dr. Yamamoto, I wonder if you can share what it's like in terms of the industry and academic working together. You look at the presentations that are happening here at the event. All the great academic institutions are very well represented, very deep papers. You at NTT, you spend some time at Stanford, talk about how it is working between this joint development with great academic institutions, as well as the great company. >> Traditionally in the United States, there has been always two complementary opportunities for training next generation scientists and engineers. One opportunity is junior faculty position or possible position in academia, where main emphasis is education. The other opportunity is junior researcher position in industrial lab where apparently the focus emphasis is research. And eventually we need two types of intellectual leaders from two different career paths. When they sort of work together, with a strong educational background and a strong research background, maybe we can make wonderful breakthrough I think. So it is very important to sort of connect between two institutions. However, in the recent past, particularly after Better Lab disappeared, basic research activity in industrial lab decreases substantially. And we hope MTT research can contribute to the building of fundamental science in industry side. And for that purpose cross collaboration with research Universities are very important. So the first task we have been working so far, is to build up this industry academia connection. >> Huge compliment NTT to continue to fund the basic research. Cause as you said, there's a lot of companies that were in it before and are not in it any more. And when you often read the history of, of, of computing and a lot of different things, you know, it goes back to a lot of times, some basic, some basic research. And just for everyone to know what we're talking about, I want to read a couple of, of sessions that you could attend and learn within Dr. Yamamoto space. So it's Coherent nonlinear dynamics combinatorial optimization. That's just one session. I love it. Physics successfully implements Lagrange multiplier optimization. I love it. Photonics accelerators for machine learning. I mean, it's so it's so interesting to read basic research titles because, you know, it's like a micro-focus of a subset. It's not quantum computing, it's all these little smaller pieces of the quantum computing stack. And then obviously very deep and rich. Deep dives into those, those topics. And so, again, Kazu, this is the first one that's going to run after the day, the first physics lab. But then you've got the crypto cryptography and information security lab, as well as the medical and health information lab. You started with physics and informatics. Is that the, is that the history? Is that the favorite child you can lead that day off on day two of the event. >> We did throw a straw and Dr. Yamamoto won it Just kidding (all laugh) >> (indistinct), right? It's always fair. >> But certainly this quantum, Well, all the topics certainly are focuses that the basic research, that's definitely a commonality. But I think the quantum physics is in a way kind of very symbolic to kind of show that the, what the basic research is. And many people has a many ideas associated with the term basic research. But I think that the quantum physics is certainly one of the strong candidates that many people may think of. So well, and I think this is definitely a good place to start for this session, from my perspective. >> Right. >> Well, and it almost feels like that's kind of the foundational even for the other sessions, right? So you talk about medical or you talk about cryptography in information, still at the end of the day, there's going to be compute happening to drive those processes. Whether it's looking at, at, at medical slides or trying to do diagnosis, or trying to run a bunch of analysis against huge data sets, which then goes back to, you know, ultimately algorithms and ultimately compute, and this opening up of this entirely different set of, of horsepower. But Dr. Yamamoto, I'm just curious, how did you get started down this path of, of this crazy 30 year journey on quantum computing. >> The first quantum algorithm was invented by David Deutsch back in 1985. These particular algorithm turned out later the complete failure, not useful at all. And he spent seven years, actually, to fix loophole and invented the first successful algorithm that was 1992. Even though the first algorithm was a complete failure, that paper actually created a lot of excitement among the young scientists at NTT Basic Research Lab, immediately after the paper appeared. And 1987 is actually, I think, one year later. So this paper appeared. And we, sort of agreed that maybe one of the interesting future direction is quantum information processing. And that's how it started. It's it's spontaneous sort of activity, I think among young scientists of late twenties and early thirties at the time. >> And what do you think Dr. Yamamoto that people should think about? If, if, if again, if we're at a, at a cocktail party, not with not with a bunch of, of people that, that intimately know the topic, how do you explain it to them? How, how should they think about this great opportunity around quantum that's kept you engaged for decades and decades and decades. >> The quantum is everywhere. Namely, I think this world I think is fundamentally based on and created from quantum substrate. At the very bottom of our, sort of world, consist of electrons and photons and atoms and those fundamental particles sort of behave according to quantum rule. And which is a very different from classical reality, namely the world where we are living every day. The relevant question which is also interesting is how our classical world or classical reality surfaces from the general or universal quantum substrate where our intuition never works. And that sort of a fundamental question actually opens the possibility I think by utilizing quantum principle or quantum classical sort of crossover principle, we can revolutionize the current limitation in communication and computation. That's basically the start point. We start from quantum substrate. Under classical world the surface is on top of quantum substrate exceptional case. And we build the, sort of communication and computing machine in these exceptional sort of world. But equally dig into quantum substrate, new opportunities is open for us. That's somewhat the fundamental question. >> That's great. >> Well, I'm not, yeah, we can't get too deep cause you'll lose me, you'll lose me long before, before you get to the bottom of the, of the story, but, you know, I really appreciate it. And of course back to you this is your guys' first event. It's a really bold statement, right? Upgrade reality. I just wonder if, when you look at the, at the registrant's and you look at the participation and what do you kind of anticipate, how much of the anticipation is, is kind of people in the business, you know, kind of celebrating and, and kind of catching up to the latest research and how much of it is going to be really inspirational for those next, you know, early 20 somethings who are looking to grab, you know, an exciting field to hitch their wagon to, and to come away after this, to say, wow, this is something that really hooked me and I want to get down and really kind of advance this technology a little bit, further advance this research a little bit further. >> So yeah, for, from my point of view for this event, I'm expecting, there are quite wide range of people. I'm, I'm hoping that are interested in to this event. Like you mentioned that those are the, you know, the business people who wants to know what NTT does, and then what, you know, the wider spectrum of NTT does. And then, and also, especially like today's events and onwards, very specific to each topic. And we go into very deep dive. And, and so to, to this session, especially in a lot of participants from the academia's world, for each, each subject, including students, and then some other, basically students and professors and teachers and all those people as well. So, so that's are my expectations. And then from that program arrangement perspective, that's always something in my mind that how do we address those different kind of segments of the people. And we all welcoming, by the way, for those people. So to me to, so yesterday was the general sessions where I'm kind of expecting more that the business, and then perhaps some other more and more general people who're just curious what NTT is doing. And so instead of going too much details, but just to give you the ideas that the what's that our vision is and also, you know, a little bit of fla flavor is a good word or not, but give you some ideas of what we are trying to do. And then the better from here for the next three days, obviously for the academic people, and then those who are the experts in each field, probably day one is not quite deep enough. Not quite addressing what they want to know. So day two, three, four are the days that designed for that kind of requirements and expectations. >> Right? And, and are most of the presentations built on academic research, that's been submitted to journals and other formal, you know, peer review and peer publication types of activities. So this is all very formal, very professional, and very, probably accessible to people that know where to find this information. >> Mmh. >> Yeah, it's great. >> Yeah. >> Well, I, I have learned a ton about NTT and a ton about this crazy basic research that you guys are doing, and a ton about the fact that I need to go back to school if I ever want to learn any of this stuff, because it's, it's a fascinating tale and it's it's great to know as we've seen these other basic research companies, not necessarily academic but companies kind of go away. We mentioned Xerox PARC and Bell Labs that you guys have really picked up that mantle. Not necessarily picked it up, you're already doing it yourselves. but really continuing to carry that mantle so that we can make these fundamental, basic building block breakthroughs to take us to the next generation. And as you say, upgrade the future. So again, congratulations. Thanks for sharing this story and good luck with all those presentations. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Alright, Yoshi, Kazu I'm Jeff, NTT UPGRADE 2020. We're going to upgrade the feature. Thanks for watching. See you next time. (soft music)