(upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back, everyone, it's CUBE's live coverage. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE here with Paul Gillen. Got a great guest coming up here, talking about cloud security, all things going on in the cloud. Paul, great day. How you doing? How you holding up? >> I'm about at the end of my, running on fumes, John. (John laughs) >> Let's bring it home. >> And we got another day coming up. >> Day three, let's bring it home, come on, let's go. Lot of energy. >> Lot of energy on the floor and certainly a lot of talk about security at this conference. Busy, busy market, lots of vendors. And one of the more notable ones, Cohesity, recently introduced a brand new suite, a brand new approach to security that combines data protection and security and backup. With us, to talk about that is Amith Nair, who is the Senior Vice president and General Manager of cloud at Cohesity. Welcome. >> Thank you very much. Thanks for having me, Paul and John. >> So tell us about DataHawk, your new product. >> Yeah, just to set a little bit of perspective on Cohesity, and how we think about DataHawk and security in general is, Cohesity is the leading solution for data security and management. And if you think about all the pillars that we provide in terms of solution around that data solutions, so we have data protection, data security, data access, data mobility and data insights. So the focus for us over the last many months was really to make our data security solutions really strong. So generally when customers think about security, they think about starting with security at the perimeter, on the edge. They think about firewalls, network layer, and so on and so forth. But in the end, what they're really trying to protect is the data that aligns to what they're really trying to save. Right? So DataHawk was formulated and built in order to help extend our existing solutions to provide additional security, layers of security, and also work with partners to enable doing that. Many months ago, we released this product called FortKnox, which is our cyber vaulting solution. One that customers really love and use today. >> It's an air gap solution, right? >> It's an air gap solution with forum capabilities, and so on. Extremely liked by customers, very well adopted, and we extended that to provide lots more data classification capabilities, and ransomware checks as well. So malware checks in the product itself in terms of what it is being backed up. And is there malware in the backed up data and so on? >> Maybe, we can talk about the evolution of ransomware, because ransomware is getting a lot more sophisticated. It used to start at the end point and then penetrate into the network. Increasingly, now, we're seeing it move into the backup, and actually corrupt backup files before moving into the production data. How is ransomware evolving? >> I mean, there's a ransomware attack that's happening right now as we speak, right? What is it? One in every 11 seconds or so on. And it's getting very, very sophisticated. And you're absolutely right, the target early on used to be the network, or the firewall and so on and so forth. Now, it is the backup. So you have to be very smart about how you protect your backup and if you do get attacked, which a lot of CSOs are starting to realize, it's not about just preventing. But it's also what do you do if it does happen? How can you be resilient in the case of an attack? How can you recover if something happens? And that's where we come in to play as well. >> What's some of the state of the art posture, security posture and cyber resilient techniques? Can you share your observations on what are some of the current state of the art positions? I mean, besides they buy everything, and they want everything, but we're looking at a cost reduction, slow down in the recession, customer's going to look at belt tightening. We heard that from Adam Celeste. Has that changed or enhanced the posture, and impact to the resiliency on the cyber side? >> Yeah, I think customers are getting really smart in terms of how they're adopting cloud. We saw a tremendous amount of growth from a cloud usage perspective, I think, over the last two years and through the pandemic. But now they're getting smart about, "How am I consuming that cloud?" Which is where the consumption's starting to slow down. But that does not mean they're not using cloud, right? And security from a cloud perspective is way different from the old world, which was very static. You're in a completely dynamic environment now. So everybody talks about zero trust security. You have to have that level of no trust, trust nothing, authenticate everything, in terms of how you approach what connects to your network, what services connect to your network and so on. And we follow the same approach, but we also believe that one solution cannot solve it. And which is why we had this announcement around our security advisory council, and security partnership and alliances, where we are providing data to additional solutions, or insights into other security solutions that will help the customer in the end. We talked about how some customers have anywhere between 50 to 70 vendors on their network for security. We want to reduce that noise and that clutter, especially when it comes to cost and expenses. Right? >> Awesome. I want to ask you a personal question if you don't mind. You're new, relatively new to Cohesity, SVP, Senior Vice President, General Manager of the cloud. Obviously, AWS, the biggest cloud, there's other clouds. What attracted you to Cohesity? What was the key thing that attracted you to this company to take a leadership role as this next wave comes in for cloud, and security and what Cohesity is doing? >> Yeah, there are a couple of reasons. Number one and most important was the maturity of the product and the quality of the product. Mohit Aron was our founder, you know, known as the grandfather or as the father of hyperconverge networking. >> He's a legend. >> He's a legend, right? >> (laughs) Just say it. >> And he's built a phenomenal set of technologies that really helps customers and that brings me to the second point, which is customers. We are a customer-obsessed company. And as I was talking to Mohit and Sanjay was our CEO, and Lynn was our CMO and others in the company, it was very evident to me that the core DNA of the company is really helping our customers be successful. Those two things put together. And the third thing, really, I am very culturally-obsessed when it comes to how organizations are run. We have a very strong culture in terms of how we treat employees, how we build the right set of products, and how we go to market. Right? Those three things put together, helped me really make a decision. Obviously, the leadership team within Cohesity was top notch as well. So every one of them that I spoke to had that same core belief system. That had helped a lot. >> Sanjay's a good friend of theCUBE, we've interviewed him many times with VMware. Paul, you know Sanjay's, he loves to get on cam. We hope to have him on tomorrow, if we can get him on the calendar. But you know, Sanjay told me one time, "I never missed a quarter." In his SAP, VMware, he's proud. We'll see, Paul, we're- >> Well, I'm going to hold him to that. >> We better not miss a quarter, I'm going to hold him to that. How's business? How's it, healthy? >> It's been great. We are seeing consistent demand for all of our products. As you can see, we continue to release new products into the market that customers are asking for. We are listening to what customers really want. Our roadmap is really based on two things, customer demand and market and where the market is growing. We have to stay on top of how the market is evolving based on the new challenges that customers are facing. Right? So markets, we are doing really good, company continues to grow and Sanjay has been fantastic in terms of driving that leadership. >> Yeah, he's a good driver. And again, he's Mr. Quarter for a reason, he's disciplined. >> (laughs) Very disciplined. >> Another reason, initiative, Cohesity's is the data security alliance. You put together a group of about a dozen security companies. Getting security companies to work with each other is always a challenge. How did you convince them to join with you? >> Well, one, we aligned on a mission. I mean, in the end, all the partners that we are talking about, they all care about what customers want. And we talked earlier about having that, you know, what is that single pane of glass when it comes to security? Is there one? Probably not. But if you can reduce the chatter, and the noise amongst all these companies, that helps. The other thing is they also understood our mission was really around the security, around data. We talked earlier about how security used to be very parameter or centric, but what you're really trying to save and secure is your data, which is your Queen Bee. And so a couple of months ago at our customer advisory council, I talked about moving and shifting the focus of security to be very data centric. And what we do in this partnership and alliance is a true integration. So there's a lot of engineering work that goes in, is us providing insights around the data to the security partners who can then leverage that to help customers be protected early on. Conversely, they can provide insights into an attack that's emanating possibly, to let us know that there's something happening, so we can lock up the data. So it's a bidirectional, symbiotic relationship between these partners and they all believe in that common cause of making sure the customers get protected. As we talked about earlier, lots of cyber attacks happening even as we speak, if we can collectively do something good in terms of making customers secure and successful, let's do it. >> So what will result from this alliance other than a press release? >> Customers will be successful, hopefully, not just protect customers from ransomware attacks, but also respond and recover if something does happen. We also announce our security council led by Kevin Mandia, and then we have some other big security advisors in that council as well. And that's been very helpful. So it's not just about the product itself, but it's also the collective experience of all these folks who can help and advise and coach CSOs, and other organizations on, what are the best practices? What are the things you're not really considering? What is the vision for you from an architecture standpoint? How is security threats starting to get more, and more mature? And how can you account for that? How can you reduce cost, to your point, right? How can you reduce cost when it comes to managing all these security solutions? >> No, there's no industry where working, it's more important for vendors to work together than in this one. >> Absolutely. I mean, especially for security, I don't think there's a one size fits all solution. So we have to work together. Right? >> What's your state of the union? You were at HashiCorp before you came here, you've been in the industry for a while, you've seen a few cycles of innovation. We're in a really weird time right now, because AWS wasn't really as powerful in 2008, when the last recession was hard too. They weren't really that big then. Now, they're a big part of the economic equation. So agility means fast speed. Can they help us get out of the pandemic? Customer's going to tighten their belts? Is there going to be a pullback? Is there tech spending? All these questions are looming. What are your customers seeing? What do you think is going to happen given the history? 'Cause I don't see the building stopping. I think you'll see more cloud, more savings. So is there fine-tuning solutions? What are customers thinking like now? >> I mean, if you think back to the last recession, the last major one, 2009, that's really about the time when you saw customers thinking about that whole digital transformation, because they started understanding that the way to connect with customers is through a digital engagement. Right? Now, as we've gone through a 10, 15 year period where there has been a lot of digital transformation, there's been a lot of investment in the cloud. Cloud is no longer seen with suspicion. Now, it's about getting smart on how to use it, how to build the right applications. Are there the right set of applications that need to stay in the cloud? And there might be others that need to stay on-prem. Right? I've talked to customers and CIOs who've mentioned to me in the past, that they would go a hundred percent in the cloud, and six months later they come back and they're like, "Nope, you're not going a hundred percent in the cloud. Maybe it's 10% or 15%." >> So they're moving. So what's your plan? You're the GM, you're in charge, you've got to take that next hill. Is it a tailwind, headwind? You've got to navigate the waters here, so to speak, mixed metaphors, but for the most part, you got a business opportunity. >> Absolutely. >> What's the outlook look like? What's your vision? What's the plan? >> Yeah. When it comes to cloud, there are certain things that are a common denominator. Right? One is how do you enable not just applications that are completely on cloud, but also that's on-prem? So for us, that hybrid movement is extremely important. But to create a single seamless UI and experience from an end-customer perspective. So for me, maintaining that and more at team, the R and D team at Cohesity have done a phenomenal job around that. For me, it's to maintain that, and then build additional workloads that make sense from a customer standpoint. There's a lot of investment customers are making. We also have to make sure that they're utilized correctly, and their stored, backed up data, recovered in a way that makes sense for them. And then if things do go south in terms of attacks or other issues, how can we help them get back up to speed, and make sure their business does not suffer? Right? So all of those combined, I think from a cloud perspective, it's the agility, the scalability, and the speed and swiftness that we can work with. >> Well, it sounds like he's ready for the Instagram Real Challenge, our new format on theCUBE. We're going to do a little segment where you can deliver a YouTube Short, Instagram Reel, TikTok or CUBE Gem. More of a thought leadership soundbite for 30 seconds around your view of why is cloud important right now. What's going on at this event that people should pay attention to? What's Cohesity doing? If you can put together a reel, a sizzle reel, or a thought leadership statement. What would that be? >> It would be that cloud is important for any business to be successful. And that's a given right now. I mean, digital transformation is an overused term, but the reality is it's here to stay. And it is the reason why everybody has a mobile phone. Half the people walking on the floor right now is looking at their phone and walking around. And that's your engagement method. So if you don't transform yourself to be able to connect with your end-user, your customer, you will not be successful. And Cohesity can help you by making sure that all of that data that you have, everything that you need in order to be successful to drive that engagement with your customers secure is backed up. No matter what, we will get you back up and running, and you will be successful. And we are in the success journey with you. >> Amith Nair, Senior Vice President, General Manager, Cohesity, the Cloud. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. For Paul Gillen, my co-host. I'm John Furrier here, live on the floor, wrapping up day two, few more segments, stay with us. We got a lot of action coming. We'll be right back with more after the short break. theCUBE, the leader in tech coverage. (bright music)

(soft electronic music) >> Good afternoon guys and gals. Welcome back to theCube's Live coverage of AWS re:Invent 2022. We've been in Sin City since Monday night, giving you a load of content. I'm sure you've been watching the whole time, so you already know. Lisa Martin here with John Furrier. John, we love having these conversations at AWS re:Invent. So many different topics of conversation. We also love talking to AWS's partner ecosystem. There's so much emphasis on it, so much growth and innovation. >> Yeah, and the thing is we got two great leaders from a very popular company that's doing very well. Security, security's a big part of the story. Data and security. Taking up all the keynote time, you're hearing a lot of it. This company's a company we've been following from the beginning. Doing really good stuff in open source, cloud native, security, shifting-left. Snyk's just a great company. With the CTO and the head of the product organization, these guys have the keys to the kingdom in security. We're going to have a great conversation. >> Yeah, we are. Both from Snyk, Manoj Nair joins us, rejoins us, for your, I believe, 11th visit. Chief Product Officer of Snyk. Adi Sharabani, Chief Technology Officer. Welcome guys. Great to have you. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Great to be back. >> So what's going on at Snyk? I know we get to talk to you often, but Manoj, give us the lowdown on what are some of the things that are new since we last connected with Snyk. >> A lot of innovation going on. We just had a major launch last month and you know when we talked to our customers three big themes are happening in parallel. One is the shift to going from traditional development to, really, DevOps, but we need to make that DevSecOps and Snyk was ahead of, that was the genesis of Snyk, but we're still, you know, maybe 15, 20% of organizations have realized that. So that one big theme. Supply chain security, top of mind for everyone. And then really, cloud and, you know, how do you really take advantage of cloud. Cloud is code. So our innovation map to those three big themes, we have done a lot in terms of that shift-left. And Adi will talk about, kind of, some of our original, like, you know, thinking behind that. But we flipped the security paradigm on its head. Was to make sure developers loved what they were, you know, experiencing with Snyk. And oh, by the way, they're fixing security issues. The second one, supply chain. So you know, SBOMs and everyone hears about this and executive orders, what do you do? Who does what with that? So we launched a few things in terms of simplifying that. You can go to our website and, you know, just upload your SBOM. It'll tell you using the best security intelligence data. In fact, the same data is used by AWS inside their products, inside Inspector. So we use that data from Snyk's intelligence to light up and tell you what vulnerabilities do your third party code have. Even things that you might not be scanning. And then the last one is really code to cloud. Cloud is code. So we have brought the ability to monitor your cloud environments all the way into your platform and the security engineering teams, rather than later on and after the fact. Those are some of the big ones that we're working on. >> Lisa: Lots going on. >> Yeah. >> Lisa: Wow. >> Lots going on there. I mean, SBOMs, Software Bill of Materials. I mean, who would've thought in the developer community, going back a decade, that we'd be talking about bill of materials, open source becomes so popular. You guys are cloud native. Developer productivity's a hot trend. Not much going on here, talking about developer productivity. Maybe Werner, keynote tomorrow will talk about it. Software supply chain, huge security risk. You guys are in the front lines. I want to understand, if you can share, why is Snyk successful? Everyone is hearing about you guys. Your business is doing great. What's the secret sauce of your success? Why are you guys so successful? >> I think that, you know, I've been doing application security for more than two decades now and in the past we always saw the potential associated with transferring, shifting-left in a sense, before the term, right? Taking those security solutions out of the hands of the security people and putting it in the hands of developers. It's speeds up the process. It's very, very clear to anyone. The problem was that we always looked at it the wrong way. We did shift-left, and shift-left is not enough because in my terminology shift-left, meaning let's take those security solution put it earlier in the cycle, but that's not enough because the developer is not speaking those terms. The developer is not a security persona. The security persona is thinking in terms of risk. What are the risks that a specific issue creates? The developer is thinking in terms of the application. What would be the impact on application of a change I would might make into it. And so the root cause of Snyk success, in my opinion, is the fact that from the get-go we scratch that, we build a solution for the developer that is based on how the workflows of the developer, whether it's the ID, whether it's the change management, the pull request. Whether it's integration with the Gits and so on. And whether it's with integration with the cloud and the interaction with the cloud providers. And doing that properly, addressing the developers how they want to context, to get, with the context they want to get as part of the issues, with the workflows they want to get. That's kind of the secret sauce, in a sense. And very easy maybe to say, but very, very hard to implement properly. >> This is huge. I want to unpack that. I want to just, great call out, great description. This is huge. This is a, we're seeing the past three years in particular, maybe three with the pandemic. Okay, maybe go a couple years earlier, then. The developers' behavior is driving the change. And you know, if you look at the past three DockerCons we've covered, we've been powering that site, been following that community very closely since the beginning, as well. It just seems in the past three to four years that the developers choices at scale, not what they're buying or who's pushing tools to them, has been one big trend. >> Yeah. >> They're setting the pace. >> Developer is the king. >> If it's self-service, we've seen self-service. Whether it's freemium to paid, that works. This is the new equation. Developer, developer choice is critical. So self-service they want. And two, the language barrier or jargon between or mindsets between security and developers. Okay, so DevOps brings IT into the workflow. Check. DevSecOps brings in there. You guys crack the code on that, is that what you're saying? >> Yes, and it's both the product, like how do you use the solution, as well as the go to market. How do you consume the solution? And you alluded to that with the PLG motion, that I think Synk has done the superb job at and that really helped our businesses. >> Okay, so Manoj, product, you got the keys to the kingdom, you got the product roadmap. I could imagine, and what I'd love to get your reaction too Adi, if you don't mind. If you do that, what you've done, the consequence of that is now security teams and the data teams can build guardrails. We're reporting a lot of that in the queue. We're hearing that we can provide guardrails. So the velocity of the developer seems to be increasing. Do you see that? Is that a consequence? >> That's something that we actually measure in the product. Right, so Snyk's focus is not finding issues, it's fixing issues. So one of the things we have been able to heuristically look at our thousands of customers and say, they're fixing issues 27 days faster than they were prior to Snyk. So, you know, I'm a Formula one fan. Guardrails, you say. I say there's a speed circuit. Developers love speed. We give them the speed. We give the security teams the ability to sit on those towers and, you know, put the right policies and guardrails in place to make sure that it's not speed without safety. >> And then I'm sure you guys are in the luxury box now, partying while the developers are (Lisa laughing) no more friction, no more fighting, right? >> The culture is changing. I had a discussion with a Fortune 50 CISO a month ago, and they told me, "Adi, it's the first time in my life where the development teams are coming to me, asking me, hey I want you to buy us this security solution." And for, that was mind blowing for him, right? Because it really changes the discussion with the security teams and the development teams >> Before Lisa jumps in, well how long, okay, let me ask you that question on that point. When did that tipping point change, culturally? Was it just the past few years? Has there, has DevOps kind of brought that in, can you? >> Yeah, I think it's a journey that happened together with Snyk's, kind of, growth. So if three years ago it was the very early adopters that were starting to consume that. So companies that are very, you know, modern in the way they developed and so on. And we saw it in our business. In the early days, most of our business came from the high tech industry. And now it's like everywhere. You have manufacturing, you have banks, you have like every segment whatsoever. >> Talk about that cultural shift. That's really challenging for organizations to achieve. Are you seeing, so that, that CISO was quite surprised that the developer came and said, this is what I want. Are you seeing more of that cultural changes? Is that becoming pervasive? >> Yeah, so I think that the root cause of that is that, you mentioned the growth, like the increased speed of velocity in applications. We have 30 million developers in the world today. 30 millions. By the end of the decade it's going to be 45 millions and all of them are using open source, third party code. Look at what's going on here in the event, right? This accelerates the speed for which they develop. So with that, what happened in the digital transformation world, the organizations are facing that huge growth, exponential growth in the amount of technology and products that are being built by their teams. But the way they manage that before, from a security perspective, just doesn't scale. And it breaks and it breaks and it breaks. This is why you need a different approach. A solution that is based on the developers, who are the ones that created the problems and the ones that will be responsible of fixing the issues. This is why we are kind of centering ourselves around them. >> And the world has changed, right? What is cloud? It's code, it's not infrastructure. Old infrastructure, hosted infrastructure. So if cloud is code and cloud native applications are all code and they're being deployed with Terraform packages and cloud formations, that's code. Why take an old school approach of scanning it outside-in. I talked to CISO today who said, I feel bad that, you know, our policy makes it such that a terraform change takes six months. What did I do? I made cloud look like infrastructure. >> Yeah, it's too slow. >> So that, you know, so both sides, you know, CISOs want something that the business, you know, accepts and adopts and it's, culture changes happen because the power is with the developers because all of this is code, and we enabled that whole seamless journey, all the way from code to cloud. So it's kind, you know, I think that this is a part of it. It's by direction, it's a bridge and both sides are meeting in the middle here. >> It's a bridge. I'm curious, how are you facilitating that bridge? You, we talk about the developers being the kings and queens and really so influential in business decisions these days. And you're talking about the developers now embracing Snyk. But you're also talking to CISOs. Is your customer conversation level changing as a result of security folks understanding why it needs to shift-left. >> We had a breakfast meeting with customers, prospects and everyone, I think this morning. It was interesting, we were remarking. There are CTOs, VPs of engineering, CISOs, VPs of AppSec. And it was such a rich conversation on both sides, right? So just the joy of facilitating that conversation and dialogue. CISOs, and so the levels are changing. It started for us in CTOs and VPs of engineering and now it's both because, you know, one of the things Adi talks about is, like, that security has to become development aware. And that's starting to be like the reality. Me getting another solution, with maybe a better acronym than the old acronym, but it's still outside-in, it's scan based. I light up up the Christmas tree, who is going to fix it? And with the speed of cloud, now I got throw in more lights. Those lights are no longer valid. >> The automation. >> The automation without prioritization and actual empowerment is useless. >> All right, I know we got a couple minutes left, but I want to get into that point about automation because inside-out, you've made me think about this. I want to get your thought Adi, if you don't mind. The integration challenges now are much more part of the ecosystem, more joint engineering. You mentioned these meetings are not just salesperson and customer buyer, it's teams are talking to each other. There's a lot of that going on. How do you guys look at that? Because now the worst things that I hear and when I talk to customers is, I hate the word PenTest and AppSec review. It slows things down. People want to go faster. So how do you guys look at that? What's Snyk doing around making the AppSec review process, integration across companies, work better? >> So I'll give you an example from the cloud and then I will relate to the AppSec. And this relates to what you mentioned before. We had a discussion yesterday with a CISO that said, we are scanning the cloud, we are opening the lights, we see this issue. Now what do I do? Who needs to fix this? So they have this long process of finding the actual team that is required to fix it. Now they get to the team and they say, why didn't you tell me about it when I developed it? The same goes for AppSec, right? The audit is a very late stage of the game. You want to make sure that the testing, that the policies, everything is under the same structure, the same policies. So when you do the same thing, it's part of the first time of code that you create, it's part of the change management, it's part of the build, it's part of the deployment and it's part of the audit. And you have everything together being done under the same platform. And this is, kind of, one of the strengths that we bring to the table. The discussion changes because now you have an aligned strategy, rather than kind of blocks that we have, kind of, mashed up together. >> So the new workflow, it's a new workflow, basically, in the mindset of the customer. They got to get their arms around that thing. If we don't design it in, the wheels could come off the bus at the 11th hour. >> Adi: Yeah. >> And everything slows down. >> I had a discussion with Amazon today, actually, that they had an internal discussion and they said, like, some of the teams were like, why have you blocked my app from being released? And they said, have you ever scanned your app? Have you ever looked at your, like, and, and they're like, if you haven't, then you're not really onboard with the platform and it just breaks. This is what happens. >> Great conversation. I know we don't, I wish we had more time. We'll do a follow up on theCube for sure. Should we get into the new twist? >> I've got one final question for you guys. We're making some Instagram reels, so think about your elevator pitch in 30 seconds. And I want to ask you about Snyk's evolution. Manoj, I want to start with you. What is that elevator pitch about Snyk's evolution to the end user customer? >> Empower developers, help them go faster, more productive and do it in a way that security is really built in, not bolted on. And that's really, you know, from a, the evolution and the power that we are giving is make the organization more productive because security is just happening as a part of making the developer more productive. >> Awesome. And Adi, question for you, how, your elevator pitch on how Snyk is really an enabler for CISOs these days? >> Yeah, so I always ask the CISO first of all, are you excited about the way your environment looks like today? Do you need to have a cultural change? Because if you need to have a cultural change, if you want to get those two teams working closely together, we are here to enable that. And it goes from the product, it goes from our education pieces that we can talk about in another section, and it works around the language that we build to allow and enable that discussion. >> Awesome. Guys, that was a double mic drop for both of you. >> Manoj: Thank you. >> Adi: Thank you, Lisa. >> Thank you so much for joining John and me, talking about what's happening with Snyk, what you're enabling customers to do and how, really, you're enabling cultural change. That's hard to do. That's awesome stuff guys. And congratulations on your 11th and your first Cube. >> Second, second, >> Second. >> Adi: I will be here more, but (laughs) >> You got it, you got it. You have to come back because we have too much to talk about. >> Adi: Exactly. (laughs) >> Thanks guys, we appreciate it. >> If we can without Manoj, so I can catch up. (Manoj laughs) >> Okay. We'll work on that. >> Bring you in the studio. (everyone laughing) >> Exactly. >> Eight straight interviews. (John and Lisa laughing) >> We hope you've enjoyed this conversation. We want to thank our guests. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in emerging and enterprise tech coverage. (soft electronic music)

>>Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >>We're back with the notion there to wrap up conv all connections. 2021 the virtual edition. Okay, let's do this. You ready? >>Absolutely. >>All right. I'll get a starting .1. Data. You ain't seen nothing yet. You just wait. We're gonna look back on the big data era of the 20 tens and joke about how trivial was compared to the next 10 years. You know, what are your thoughts on data value and data exposures? >>The data has never been more valuable. Right? The new oil your most critical asset and neither has it been more vulnerable. So you kind of get these two things value increasing. Obviously it becomes more attractive to the to the bad actors and that's the era that we're living in and really, you know what organizations are needed. You know, you kind of think about business resilience and all that. You need the ability to as someone said the anti fragile right? Keep testing it. See, you know, if if your data defenses are now ready to a point where your data is not a liability, but you can make it something that becomes a business advantage. So kind of that business resilience gap that we've been talking about. The business integrity gap uh is really you know what we had focused on. So our customers can really start just taking advantage of the value equation of the data. >>And I think you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna push my community here a little bit and I'm gonna I think we need a new new metaphor because you know why? Because data minnows it's actually more valuable than oil it's not scarce like oil we're never gonna run out of data. So I'm trying to come up with a new a new one but we'll work on that. The cloud. The 2nd point is the cloud is expanding. It's moving to the data center. We got hybrid connections were going across clouds, we got edge nodes, we got new workloads, real time streaming and ai influencing microservices and containers and Ai and all this R. P. A. And hyper automation. All the crazy buzzwords that combined your digital business stack. But the point is data is not only exploding, it's exploding everywhere. You know it's not just in one place anymore. >>Absolutely. And that's that's you know part of the challenge here that our customers space you know unless you know you're a company that was born yesterday you have applications everywhere. Your your pace is different, every customer's journey and the transformation is different. So you might take different directions, different ways. What do you do you have some sass applications you might start there or you start with some public cloud. Maybe you start using some stories in public cloud. So as you transform and as you are now creating more sprawl and that sprawl as we talked about before this is like swiss cheese you got lights that you know people can take advantage of. On the other hand because of that lack of a single unified data services platform. What you lose is the ability to take advantage of all your data, your application, mobility and people die. Let's take the example of containers and kubernetes. What is the point of having you know transportation and ability to move these containers to any cloud if your data is not available in all those clocks. What's the strategy for that? So the problems are also changing their more business centric than just that, you know, what I call the active data management era is really upon us and that's really what's gonna help take it full advantage of all of the other technologies around us. Ai microservices edge, you know, IOT you need to make sure you have a unified data services and intelligent data services platform. >>So what I see is is calm vault is essentially building that that data protection cloud or you might want to call it the data management cloud that starts to get into database and some other areas but but the concept of an abstraction layer that hides that underlying complexity of all the clouds and allows you to protect your data irrespective of location. That's to me that's how you get control of your data which is kind of point number three. And we heard Sandy this morning talking about embrace, manage and protect your data properly. It can be the defining disruptive difference for an organization, which I agree. However, I want to play devil's advocate in the sense that I think the only way you can get control of your data is do you have to embrace that sprawl in that complexity and admit you're not gonna shove it all into a single monolithic source of truth that those days are over. You have to you have to realize that the world is decentralized, It's coming it's here. So we have to implement automation and software to Federated governance and policy and security and privacy and data protection across that abstraction layer that I just just describe someone. Let's talk about that. What are your thoughts? >>Yeah. And I said that earlier too and Sonya is absolutely right. You have to embrace that. You figure out how to make it a competitive advantage. No workload left behind Commonwealth customers are able to protect everything from S 400 to dynamics 3 65 in the cloud and everything in between. Right. So microservices app multi cloud today we're top solution provider for the top clouds. We talked to Microsoft order today, AWS DCP we are driving exabytes of data and protecting exabytes of data. That is our strategic advantage. As you said, you cannot leave you know, strategies behind and say you know what that workload. Not interesting anymore with your data is in there. So that that is the approach that comprehensive platform and then I'm built on that. You start seeing protection grade, not data security, how to use tackle that intelligence from data insights from data compliance challenges my e discovery challenges. So being able to tackle those things ecosystem very key. How do I build on top of this intelligence, data services platform and ecosystem to take advantage of my data. These are all the layers that we believe. You know, it's very differentiated compared to anyone else out there. We're not forcing anyone into a single architecture and saying this is the best because you know what you have learned from 25 years, there's no such thing as one single best architecture. >>Oh, I asked 401 of the most innovative systems in the day. >>Uh but at the >>point of we talked about all the sprawl, this makes ransomware more difficult because an insidious because of the expanding supply chain, the ecosystem, the threat surface. And really the sophistication of the adversary, we've kind of talked about that and and and really new techniques are the Attackers are going mainstream. So but you know, I want to give you the last word here, I want to address two things if you would. Security. Like what's the big news there? Why the big deal and why con vault bring us home with the big picture of your differentiators? >>Absolutely. So you mentioned ransomware? Bad guys always looking to find those exit drawers and break it, Break it down security. I q we're proud to launch this today. It's kind of brings together the culmination of a lot of security that we have done allows customers to be proactive in terms of, you know, we've brought in Gamification into that security i aspect like make it easy and almost make it fun to make sure you're plugging all the holes so that your last mile of defense is secure, then you figure out how you can become more proactive. I have data intelligence that the security tools don't when the bad guys start sniffing around the data or anomaly detection and machine learning the ability to bring that intelligence a highly, you know, relevant signal into the security tools, building that bridge. And lastly, what happens when the, you know, worst case scenario happens almost like a rewind button to go back on your data. Look this is where malware came in and now you're able to just go back and delete that. So that's security, I. Q. Amazing. Or you know, customers are going to try it out and the live hands on lab that's happening and you know, there are feedback has been, this is just brilliant, they love it. So, one more, you know, innovation, we keep doing this, we go we're setting the bar a year ago, we launched them CSS, you know, air gap copy in the cloud, you know, a few weeks ago now we're saying, oh we can also do it right, well we have now innovative to the next level that's combo, you know, bringing it on why combo, 25 years of innovation, you know, it is just amazing how the company had the vision to build a distributed architecture. You talked about a distributed world are beauties, we're not forcing preference customers might have self managed applications that they want, you know, to be used software, they might have the need in some locations to have everything integrated with an appliance, you know, new workloads in the cloud. Let me see if I can start shifting to the data management as a service, which is really the next wave in the industry. And then finally, you know, what about that whole distribution that's happening again. So people will be, you know, we have that unique ability to build a platform. We have amazing ecosystem partners and the biggest companies in the world. Trust us as you heard, you know, throughout the show. So that's what's comin, you know, sustain technology differentiation to make our customers really realize their vision of, you know, leveraging their data as an asset. >>Nice job knows, I love it. Okay, that's a wrap from convoked connections 2021 this is dave vellante from an ocean air and the entire conv all team and the cube team encouraging to come back and check out the on demand videos for anything that you miss tell a friend, let us know what you think for everyone here at convoked connections. 21. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time. Yeah. >>Mhm Yeah

(lighthearted music) >> We're here now with Manoj Nair, who's the general manager of Metallic and Dave Totten CTO with Microsoft. And we're going to talk about some of the announcements that we heard earlier today and what Metallic and Microsoft are doing to meet customer needs around cyber threats and ensuring secure cloud data management. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Thanks Dave. >> Thank you. >> Hey Manoj, let me start with you. We heard early this morning, Dave Totten was here, David Noe, talk a lot about security. Has the conversation changed, how has it changed when you talk to customers, Manoj? What's top of mind. >> Yeah, thank you, Dave. And thank you, Dave Totten. You know, great conversation earlier. Dave, you and I have talked about this in the past, right? Security long a big passion of mine. You know, having lived through nation state attacks in the past and all that. We're seeing those kinds of techniques really just getting mainstream, right? Ransomware has become a mainstream problem in the scourge in our lives. Now, when you look at it from a lens of data and data management, data protection, backup, all of this was very much a passive you know, compliance centric use case. It was pretty static you know, put it in tapes, haul it all over. And what has really changed with this ransomware and cybercrime change rate is data, which is now your most precious asset, is under attack. So now you see security teams, just like you talked with Dave Martin, from ADP earlier, they are looking for that bridge between SecurityOps and ITOps. That data management solution needs to do more. It needs to be part of an active conversation, you know? Not just, you know, recovery readiness. Can you ensure that, are you testing that, is it recoverable? That is your last mile of defense. So then you get questions like that from security teams. You get you know, the need for doing more, signals. Can I get better signals from my data management stack to tell me I might be under attack? So what we're seeing in the conversation is the need to have more active conversations around data management and the bridge between ITOps and SecurityOps is really becoming paramount for our customers. >> Yeah, Dave Totten I mean, I often say that I think data protection used to be this bolt on. Now it's a fundamental component of the digital business stack. Anything you would add to what Manoj just said. >> Yeah, I would just say exactly that. Data is an asset, right? We talked about it a lot about the competitive advantage that customers are now realizing that no longer is IT considered sort of this cost center element. We need to be able to leverage our interactions with customers, with partners, with supply chains, with manufacturers, we need to be able to leverage that to sort of create differentiation and competitive advantage in the marketplace. And so if you think about it, as that way as the fuel for economic profitability and business growth, you would do everything in your power to secure it, to support it, to make sure you had access to it, to make sure that you didn't have you know, bad intent users accessing it. And I think we're seeing that shift with customers as they think more about how to be more efficient with their investments in information technology and then how just to make sure that they protect the lifeblood of their businesses. >> Yeah, and that just makes it harder because the adversary is very capable. They're coming in through the digital supply chain. So it's complicated. And so Dave and maybe Manoj, you can comment as well after, Microsoft and Commvault, you guys have been working together for decades and so you've seen a lot of the changes, a lot of the waves. So I'm curious as to how the partnership has evolved. You've got a recent strategic announcement around Azure with Metallic. Dave, take us through that. >> Yeah, I mean you know, Commvault and Microsoft aren't newlyweds, we've been together now for 25 plus years. We send each other anniversary gifts, all that good stuff. And you know, listen, there's a couple things that are key to our relationship. One, we started believing in each other's engineering organizations, right? We hire the best, we train and retain the best. And we both put a lot of investment behind our infrastructure and the ability to work together to really innovate at real time, rapid speeds. Two, we use Commvault products so you know, there's no greater I think, advantage that if a major supplier or platform partner like Microsoft uses your products. We've used it for years in our Xbox group to support and store the data for a hundred million XBox live users. And we're very avid with it with our data centers, our access to Azure data centers, our Microsoft office products. And so we use Commvault services as well. And through that mutual relationship you know, obviously Commvault has seen the ins and outs of what's great about our services and where we're continuing to build and invest. And so they've been able to really you know, dedicate a team of engineers and architects to support all that Azure as a platform, as a service can provide. And then how to take the best of those features and build it into their own first party products. I think when you get close enough to somebody for so many years right, 25 plus years, you figure out what they're great at and you learn to take those advantages like Commvault has with Microsoft and Azure and use it to your advantage, right? To build the best in class product that Metallic actually is. And you're right, the announcement this week it feels culminating, it feels like it's a major milestone in first off, industry innovation but also in our relationship. But it's really not that big of a step change from what we've been doing and building and innovating on for the past you know, 25 years. >> Yeah so Manoj, that's got to be music to your ears. Because you come at it with this rich data protection stack, Microsoft there's so many capabilities. One of the courses, which is Azure. It's like the secret weapon, it's become the secret weapon. How do you think about that relationship, Manoj? >> Absolutely Dave said it right. We are strong partners, 25 years, founding in Western Commvault, mutual customers, partnership. You know, really when you look at it from a customer lens, what our customers have appreciated, over the last year of that strengthening of that partnership basically the two pillars of Commvault the leader of data protection, or you know, for the last 25 years, 10 out of 10 in the Gartner MQ comes together with Azure, the enterprise secure cloud leader in creating Metallic. Metallic, now with 1,000 plus customers around the world, there's a reason they trust it. It's now become part of how they protect their Office 365. No workload left behind, which is very unique, you know? So what we have architected together and now we're taking it to the next phase, our joint partners, right? Our joint customers, that those are some of the things that are really changing in terms of how we're accelerating the partnership. >> Manoj, you and I have talked about ransomware a lot, we did a special segment a while back on that. The adversary is very capable. And you know, I put in the chat this morning, at Commvault Connections, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a ransomwarist. You can go on the dark web, you can buy ransomware as a service. All you need is access to a server and you can stick you know, some malware on it. So you know, it's very, very dangerous times. What is it about data management as a service that makes it a good fit right now from a customer perspective to solve this problem? >> Absolutely. Bad guys, real life, or in the cyber world, they have some techniques. First thing they do in a ransomware is you go after the exits. What are the exit doors? Now you back up data, they know that that backup data can be used to recover. So they go and try to defeat the backup products in that environment. That's number one game that changes with data management as a service. Your data management data protection environment is not inside your environment. Chances to do two simultaneous penetrations to try and anything is possible. But now you've got an additional layer of recovery readiness because that control plane secured on top of Microsoft, Azure, 3,500 security professionals, FedRAMP high standard only data management and service entity to get it. As one of our customers said, "A unicorn in the wild", that is what you have as your data management environment. So if something bad happens, worst case, this environment is ready. Our enterprise customers are starting to understand that this is becoming a big reason to shift to this model. You know, then it's okay if you're not ready to shift the entire model, you're given the easy button of just air gapping of your data. So if you're an existing Commvault customer, appliance, software, anything, secure air gap Metallic cloud storage on hardened Azure Blob protected jointly by us, start there. And finally things like active directory. Talk about shutting the exit path, right? Take that down, your entire environment is not accessible. We make it easy for you to recover that. And because of our partnership, we're able to get it for free to every one of our customers. Go protect your active directory environment using (speaks faintly) kind of three big reasons that we're seeing that entire conversation shift in the minds of our customers. >> Yeah, thank you for that. That's a no brainer. Dave, how do Metallic and Microsoft fit together? Where's the you know, kind of value chain if you will, when it comes to dealing with cyber protection or ransomware recovery, how are your customers thinking about that? >> Yeah well, first it's a shared responsibility model, right? When you've got the best in class platform like Azure with built in protections, scalable data centers all over the global footprint. But then also we spend 10 plus billion dollars a year in security and defense and our own data center environments, right? And so I always find it inspiring when companies believe that their investments in security and platform protection is going to do the job. That's true, that used to be true. Now with Azure, you can take advantage of this global scale and secure you know, footprint of investment that a company like Microsoft has done to really set your heart at ease. Now, what do you do with your actual applications and who has access to it, and how do you actually integrate like Manoj was talking about down to the individual or the individual account that's trying to get access to your environment? Well, that's where Commvault comes in at that point of attack or at that point of an actual data element. So if you've got that environment within Commvault system backed by the umbrella of the Azure security infrastructure, that's how the two sort of compliment each other. And again, it's about shared responsibility, right? We want every customer that leverages Azure to make sure that they know it's secure, it's protected. We've got a mechanism to protect your best interests. Commvault has that exact same mission statement, right? To make sure that every single element that comes into contact with their products is protected, is secure, is trustworthy. You know, I got a long lesson, long, long time ago, early in my career that says you can goof up a product feature, you can goof up the color scheme on a website but if you lose a customer's data or somebody trust, you never get it back. And so we don't take our relationships with customers very lightly. And I think our committed and joint responsibility to delight and support our customers is what has led to this partnership being so successful over the past couple of decades. >> Great, thank you, Dave. And so Manoj, I was saying earlier that data protection has become a fundamental component of your digital business stack. So that sounds good but what should customers be doing to make data protection and data management, a business value driver versus just a liability or exposure or cost factor that has to be managed? What do you think about that? >> No, and then David added earlier, right? It's no longer a liability. In fact it is you know, someone said data is the new oil, right? It is your crown jewels. You got to to start with thinking about an active data protection strategy, not you know, thinking about passive tools and looking at it in terms of a compliance or I need to keep the data around. So that's the number one part is like, how do I have something that protects all my workloads and everyone has a different pace of transformation. So unless you know, you're a company that just got created, you have environments that are on-prem, on the edge, in CoLOS, public cloud. You got you know, SaaS applications, all of those have a critical data that needs to come together. Look for breadth of data protection, something that doesn't leave your workloads behind. Siloed solutions, create a Swiss cheese that create light for the attackers to go after those gaps. You don't want to look for that, you know? And then finally trust. I mean you know, what are the pillars of trust that the solution is built on? You got to figure out how your teams can get to doing more productive things rather than patching systems. You know, making sure that the infrastructure is up. As Dave said you know, we invest a ton jointly in securing this infrastructure. Trust that and leverage that as a differentiator rather than trying to duplicate all of that. So those are some of the you know, key things. And you know, look for players who understand that hybrid is here, give you different entry points. Don't force you know, the single single mode of operation. Those are the things we have built to make it easier for our customers to have a more active data management strategy. >> Dave, Todd, I'll give you the last word we got to go but I want to hit on this notion of zero trust. It used to be a buzz word now it's mainstream. There's so much that this discussion, is it Prudentialist access? Every access is treated maybe as privileged but what does zero trust mean to you in less than a minute? >> Yeah you know, trust but verify, right? Every interaction you have with your infrastructure, with your data, with your applications and you do it at the identity level. We care about identity and we know that that's the core of how people are going to try and access infrastructure. Used to be protect the perimeter. The analogy I always use is we have locks on our houses. Now the bad guys are everywhere. They're getting inside our houses and they're not immediately taking things, they're hiding in the closet and they're popping out three weeks later before anybody knows it. And so being able to actually manage, measure, protect every interaction you have with your infrastructure and do it at the individual or application level, that's what zero trust is all about. So don't trust any interaction, make sure that you pass that authorization through with every ask. And then make sure you protect it from the inside out. >> Great stuff. Okay guys, we've got to leave it there. Thanks so much for the time today. All right next, right after a short break, we're headed into the CXL Power Panel to hear what's on the minds of the executives as it relates to data management in the digital era. Keep it right there, you're watching theCUBE. (lighthearted music)

>>mhm >>Hello welcome to this cube conversation here in Palo alto California and john for with the cube we had a great conversation around the rise of the cloud and the massive opportunities and challenges around analytics data ai suggestion. Air ceo of thought spot is here with me for conversation. Great to see you. Welcome back to the cube. How are you? >>Well john it is so good to be back. I wish that we could do one of those massive set up that you have and do this face to face but zoom is not bad. >>You guys are doing very well. We have been covering you guys been covering the progress um great technology enabled business. You're on the wave of this cloud analytics you're seeing, we've seen massive changes and structural changes for the better. It's a tailwind for anyone in the cloud data business. And you also on the backdrop of all that the Covid and now the covid is looking at coming out of covid with growth strategies. People are building modern or modernizing their infrastructure and data is not just a department, it's everywhere. You guys are in the middle of this. Take us through what's the update on thought spot. What are you guys doing? What do you see the market right now? Honestly, delta variants coming coming strong but we think will be out of this soon. Where where are >>we look I think it all starts with the users like you said the consumers are demanding more and more from the business they are interacting with. You're no longer happy with being served like uh I'm gonna put you all in a bucket and then Delaware services to you. Everyone's like look look at me, I have likes and dislikes that is probably going to be different from someone that you think are similar to me. So unless you get to know me and deliver bespoke services to me, I'm gonna go somewhere else who does that And the call that the way you do that is through the data that I'm giving to you. So the worst thing you can do is to take my data and still treat me like an average and numbers and what's happening with the cloud is that it is now possible and it wasn't okay. So I grew up in India where newspapers will always have stock market summary on like one full page full of takers and prices and the way it used to work is that you wake up in the morning you look at the newspaper, I don't know if you have had the same thing and then you call your broker is based on in place of that. Can you imagine doing that now? I mean the information is at your fingertips. Hurricane IDa either is actually going to enter in Louisiana somewhere. What good is it? Yesterday morning state on this morning state if I'm trying to make a decision on whether I should pack my stuff and move away or you know finding to from home depot supply chain manager. I shouldn't figure out what should I be doing for Louisiana in the next two days, this is all about the information that's available to you. If you plan to use it and deliver better services for your consumer cloud makes it possible. >>You know, it's interesting you mentioned that the old way things were it seems so slow, then you got the 15 minute quotes, then there's now a real time. Everything has to be real time. And clearly there's two major things happening at the same time which makes exciting the business model and the competitive advantages for leaders and business to use data is critical but also on the developer side where apps are being developed if you don't have the data access, the machine learning won't work well. So as machine learning becomes really courted driving ai this modern analytics cloud product that you guys announced brings to bear kind of two major lifts the developer app modernization as well as competitive advantage for the companies that need to deploy this. So you guys have announced this modern approach analytics cloud, so to speak. What are some of the challenges that companies are having? Because you gotta, if you hit both of those you're gonna right a lot of value. What are some of the challenges for people who want to do this modern cloud? >>I think the challenge is basically all inside in the company. If you ask companies why are they failing to modernize? They will point to what's inside, it's not outside the technology is there the stack is the vendors are there, It is sometimes lack of courage at the leadership level which is a huge problem. I'll give an example. Uh, we have recently announced what we call thoughts part everywhere, which is our way of looking at how to modernize and bring the data inside that you're looking forward to where you are because Lord knows we all have enough apps on our Octa or a single sign on. The last thing you need is one more how no matter how good it is, they don't want to log into yet under their tool, whether it's thought spot or not. But the insights that you are talking about needs to be there when you need. And the difference is uh, the fundamental approach of data analytics was built on embedded model. You know what we are proposing is what we call data apps. So the difference between data apps and the typical dashboard being embedded into your analytics model is sort of like think of it. Uh newspapers telephones and the gap in between. So there is newspapers radio that is walkie talkie and telephone. They're all different and newspapers get printed and it comes to you and you read in the morning, you can talk back to it, you can drag and drop, you can change it right walkie talkies on the other hand, you know, you could have one conversation then come back to that. Whereas phone, you can have true direction conversation? They're all different if you think of embedding it is sort of like the newspaper, the information that you can't talk back. So somebody resembling something that came out monday, you're going to a board meeting on Wednesday and you look at that and make decisions. That is not enough in the new world, you just can't do that. It's not about what a lot of tools can actually answer what the real magic the real value for customers are unlocked when you ask three subsequent questions and answer them and they will come down to when you hear what you have to know. So what? Right and then what if and then the last is what next Imagine you can answer those three questions every business person every time no matter how powerful the dashboard is, they will always have the next question. What? So what? Okay the business customers are turning so what is it good, is it bad? Is it normal or the next question is like now what what do I do with it two, the ability to take all these three questions so what and what a fun. Now what? That requires true interactivity, you know, start with an intent and with an action and that is what we are actually proposing with the data apps which is only possible if you're sitting on top of a snowflake or red shift kind of really powerful and massive cloud data warehouse where the data comes and moves with agility. >>So how has this cloud data model rewritten the rules of business? Because what you're bringing up is essentially now full interactivity really getting in, getting questions that are iterating and building on context to each other. But with all this massive cloud data, people are really excited by this. How is it changing business than the rules of business? >>Yeah. So think about, I mean topical things like there is a hurricane able to enter, hit the cost of the United States. It's a moving target. No one knows exactly where it is going to be. There is only 15 models from here. 10, 10 models from Europe that's going to predict which way it's going to take every millimeter change in that map is going to have significant consequences for lives and resources and money. Right. This is true for every business. What cloud does this? Uh you have your proprietary data for example, let's say you're a bank and you have proprietary data, you're launching a new product And the propriety data was 2025 extremely valuable. But what what's not proprietary but what is available to you? Which could make that data so much more relevant if you layer them on top census data, this was a census here. The census data is updated. Do you not want that vaccination leader? We clearly know that purchasing power parity will vary based on vaccinations and county by county. But is that enough? You need to have street by street is county data enough. If you're going to open startup, Mr Starbucks? No, you probably want to know much more granular data. You wanna know traffic. Is the traffic picking up business usually an office space where people are not coming to office or is it more of a shopping mall where people are still showing all of these data is out there for you? What cloud is making it possible? Unlike the old era where you know, your data is an SFP oracle or carry later in your data center, it's available for you with a matter of clicks. What thought sport modern analytics. Cloud is a simple thing. We are the front end to bring all of this data and make sense of it. You can sit on top of any cloud data and then interact with a complete sort of freedom without compromising on security, compliance or relevance. And what happens is the analysts, the people who are responsible for bringing the data and then making sure that it is secure and delivered. They are no longer doing incremental in chart updates and dashboard updates. What they're doing is solving business problems, business people there freely interacting and making bigger decisions. That actually adds value to their consumers. This is what your customers are looking for, your users are looking for and if you're not doing it, your competitor will do that. So this is why cloud is not a choice for you. It's not an option for you. It is the only way and if you fail to take that back the other way is taking the world out of a cliff. >>Yeah, that's I love it. But I want to get this uh topic of thoughts about anywhere, but I want to just close out on this whole idea of modern cloud scale analytics. What technology under the hood do you guys see that customers should pay attention to with thought spot and in general because the scale there. So is it just machine learning? We hear data lakes, you know, you know different configurations of that. Machine learning is always thrown around like a buzzword. What new technology capability should every executive by your customer look for when it comes to really doing analytics, modern in the cloud >>analytics has to be near real time, Which means what two things speed at scale, make sure it's complex, it can deal with complexity in data structure. Data complexity is a huge problem. Now imagine doing that at scale and then delivering with performance. That means you have to rethink Look Tableau grew out of excellent worksheets that is the market leader, it is a $40 billion dollar market with the largest company having only a billion dollars in revenue. This is a massive place where the problems need to be solved differently. So the underlying technology to me are like I said, these three things, number one cannot handle the cloud scale, you will have hundreds of billions of rows of data that you brought. But when you talk about social media sentiment of customers, analysis of traffic and weather patterns, all of these publicly available valuable data. We're talking trillions of rows of data. So that is scale. Now imagine complexity. So financial sector for example, there is health care where you know some data is visible, some data is not visible, some some is public assumption not or you have to take credit data and let it on top of your marketing data. So it becomes more complex. And the last is when you answer ask a question, can you deliver with absolute confidence that you're giving the right answer With extremely high performance and to do that you have to rebuild the entire staff. You cannot take your, you know, stack that was built in 1990s and so now we can do search So search that is built for these three things with the machine learning and ai essentially helping at every step of the way so that you're not throwing all this inside directly to a human, throw it to a i engine and the ai engine curates what is relevant to you, showing it to you. And then based on your interaction with that inside, I improve my own logic so that the next interaction, the next situation is going to be significantly better. My point is you cannot take a triple a map and then try to act like this google maps. One is built presuming and zoom out and learn from you. The other one is built to give you rich information but doesn't talk back. So the staff has to be fundamentally rebuilt for the club. That's what he's doing. >>I love I love to buy direction. I love the interactivity. This topic of thought spot everywhere, which you mentioned at the beginning of this conversation, you mentioned data apps which by the way I love that concept. I want to do a drill down on that. Uh I saw data marketplace is coming somewhat working but I think it's going to get it better. I love that idea of an app um, and using as developers but you also mentioned embedded analytics. You made a comment about that. So I gotta ask you what's the difference between data apps and embedded analytics? >>Embedded analytics means that uh you know the dashboards that you love but the one that doesn't talk back to you is going to be available inside the app that you built for your other So if a supply chain app that was built by let's say accenture inside that you haven't had your dashboard without logging into tablet. Great. But what you do, what's the big deal? It is the same thing. My point is like I said every time a business user sees a chart. The questions are going to come up. The next 10 question is where the values on earth for example on Yelp imagine if you will piece about I'm hungry. I want to find a restaurant and it says go to this burrito place. It doesn't work like that. It's not good enough. The reason why yell towards is because I start with an intent. I'm hungry. Okay show me all restaurants. Okay I haven't had about it for a while. Let me see the photos. Let me read the reviews. Let me see if my friends have eaten, let me see some menu. Can I walk there? I do all of this but just what underneath it. There is a rich set of data that probably helped have their own secret source and reviews and then you have google map powering some of them. But I don't care all of that is coming together to deliver a seamless experience that satisfies my hunger. Which will be very different from if you use the same map at the same place you might go to an italian place. I go to bed right. That is the power of a data app in business people are still sitting with this. I am hungry. I gotta eat burrito. That's not how it should be in the new world. A business user should have the freedom to add exactly what the customers require looking for and solve that problem without delay. That means every application should be power and enriched with the data where you can interact and customized. That is not something that enterprise customers are actually used to and to do that you need like I said a I and search powering like the google map underneath it, but you need an app like a yelp like app, that's what we deliver. So for example, uh just last week we delivered a service now app on snowflake. You know, it just changes the game. You are thinking about customer cases. You're a large company, you have support coming from Philippines and India some places the quality is good. Some places bad dashboards are not good enough saying that okay, 17% of our customers are unhappy but we are good. That's not the world we live in. That is the tyranny of >>average, >>17% were unhappy. You got to solve for them. >>You mentioned snowflake and they had their earnings. David and I were commenting about how some of the analysts got it all wrong. And you bring up a really good point that kind of highlights the real trend. Not so much how many new customers they got. But there do what customers are doing more. Right? So, so what's happening is that you're starting to see with data apps, it does imply Softwares in there because it's it's application. So the software wrapping around data. This is interesting because people that are using the snowflakes of the world and thought spot your software and your platform, they're doing more with data. So it's not so much. I use snowflake, I use snowflake now I'm going to do more with it. That's the scale kicking. So this is an opportunity to look at that more equation. How do you talk >>with >>when you see that? Because that's the real thing is like, okay, that's I bought software as a service. But what's the more that's happening? What do you see >>that is such an important point? Even I haven't thought about it that john but you're absolutely right. That is sometimes people think of snowflake is taking care of it and no. Yeah, yes, Sarah later used to store once and zeros and they're moving it into club. That is not the point. Like I said, marketplace as an example when you are opening it up for for example, bringing the entire world's data with one click accessible to you securely. That is something you couldn't do on number two. You can have like 100 suppliers and all of a sudden you can now take a single copy of data and then make it available to all of them without actually creating multiple copies and control it differently. That's not something without cloudy, potentially could do. So things like that are fundamentally different. It is much more than like one plus one equals two. It is one plus one is 33. Like our view is that when you are re platform ng like that, you have to think from customer first. What does the customer do? The customer care that you meant from Entre into cloud or event from Teradata snowflake. No, they will care if their lives are better. Are they able to get better services are able to get it faster. That's what it is. So to me it is very simple. The destiny of an insight or data information is action, right? Imagine you're driving a car and if your car updates the gas tank every monday morning, imagine how you know, stressful your life will be for the whole week. I have to wait until next monday wanting to figure out what, whether I have enough gas or not, that's not the new world, that information is there, you need to have it real time and act on it. If you go through the Tesla you realize now that you know, I'm never worried about mileage because it is going to take me to the supercharger because it knows what I need to get to, it knows how long it is going to be, how bad the traffic is. It is synthesizing all of that to give me peace of mind. >>So this is a great >>conversation. That's a >>great question. It's a great conversation because it's really kind of brings in kind of what's happening, you see successful companies that are working with cloud scale and data like you're talking about, it's you get in there, you get the data, the data apps and all of a sudden you hit it, you hit the value equation and it's like almost like discovering oil all of a sudden you have a gusher and then people just see massive increase in value. It's not like the outcome, it's kind of there, you've got to kind of get in there and this is the scale piece and you see people having strategies to do that, they say okay we're gonna get in there, we're going to use the data to iterate but also watch the data learn where's that value, This is that more trend and and there's a successful of the developing. So I have to ask you when you, when you talk about people and culture, um that's not the way it used to be, used to be like okay I'm buying an outcome. I deployed some software mechanisms and at the end of the day there's some value there. Maybe I write it off maybe I, you know, overtime charges and some accounting thing. All changed the culture and the people in charge now are transforming the management techniques. What do you see as a successful mindset for a customer as they managed through these new paradigms and new new success formulas. >>I see a fork in leadership when it comes to courage. There are people with the spine and there are people without the spine and the ones with the spine are absolutely killing it. They are unafraid. They are not saying, look, I'm just going to stick with the incumbents that I've known for the last 20 years. Look, I used to drive a Toyota forever because I love the Toyota. And then you know after Nutanix IPO went to Lexus still Toyota because it's reliable. I don't, I'm not a huge card person. It works. But guess what? I knew they were missing Patrick and I care about the environment. I don't want to keep pushing hydrocarbons out there. It's not politics. I just don't like burning stuff into the earth atmosphere. So when Tesla came out, it's not like I love the quality I don't personally like alone mask, you know after that Thailand fiasco of cave rescue and all of that. But I can clearly see that Toyota is not going to catch up to Tesla in the next 10 years. And guess what? My loyalty is much more to doing the right thing for my family and to the world. And I switched this is what business leaders need to know. They can't simply say, well, tabloid as search to. They're not as good as thought sports. We'll just stick with them because they have done with us. That's what weak leaders do and customers suffer for that. What I see like the last two weeks ago when I was in new york. I met with them. A business leader for one of the largest banks in the world with 25,000 people reporting to him. The person walks into the room wearing shorts and t shirts uh, and was so full of energy and so full of excitement. I thought I'm going to learn from him and he was asking questions about how we do our business in bed and learning from me. I was humbled, I was flawed and I realized that's what a modern business leader looks like. Even if it is one of the largest and oldest banks in the world, that's the kind of people are making big difference and it doesn't matter how all the companies, how old their data is they have mainframes or not. I hear this excuses all the type of er, mainframes, we can't move, we have COBOL going on. And guess what? You keep talking about that and hear leaders like him are going to transform those companies And next thing you know, there are some of the most modern companies in the world. >>Well certainly they, we know that they don't have any innovation strategy or any kind of R and D or anything going on that could be caught flat footed in the companies that didn't have that going on, didn't have the spine or the, the, the vision to, to at least try the cloud before Covid when Covid hit, those companies are really either going out of business or they're hurting the people who were in the cloud really move their teams into the cloud quicker to take advantage of uh, the environment that they had to. So this became a skill issue. So, so this is a big deal. This is a big deal. And having the right skills are people skilled, it will be a, I both be running everything for them. What is your take on that? >>This is an important question. You can't just say you got to do more things or new things and not take care of all things. You know, there's only 89, 10 hours so you can work in their uh, analysts in the Atlantic species constantly if your analysts are sitting there and making incremental dashboards and reports change every day and then backlog is growing for 56 days and the users are unhappy because you're not getting answers and then you ask them to go to new things. It's just not going to be enough and you can hire your way out of it. You have to make sure that if you say that I have 20 100 x product already, I don't want 21st guess what? Sometimes to be five products, you need to probably go to 21 you got to do new things to actually take away the gunk off the old and in that context, the re skilling starts with unburdening, unburdening of menial task, unburned routine task. There is nothing more frustrating than making reports and dashboards that people don't even use And 90% of the time analysts, they're amazing experiences completely wasted when they're making incremental change to tabloid reports. I kind of believe thought spot and self service on top of cloud data takes away all of that without compromising security and then you invest the experienced people. Business experience is so critical. So don't just go and hire university students and say, okay, they'll go come and quote everything the experience that they have in knowing what the business is about and what it matters to their users, that domain experience and then uplevel them res kill them and then bring fresh energy to challenge that and then make sure there is a culture that allows that to happen. These three things. That's why I said leadership is not just about hiring event of firing another, it's about cultivating a culture and living that value by saying, look if I am wrong, call me, call me out in public because I want to show you how I deal with conflict. So this is I love this thing because when I see these large companies where they're making these massive changes so fast, it inspires you to say you know what if they can do it, anyone can do it. But then I also see if the top leadership is not aligned to that. They are just trying to retire without the stock tanking too much and let me just get through two more years. The entire company suffers. >>So that's great to chat with you got great energy, love your business, love the energy, love the focus. Um it's a new wave you're on. It's a big wave um and it's it's relevant, it's cool and relevant and it's the modern way and people have to have a spine to be successful if not for the faint of heart, but the rewards are there if you get this right. This is what I I love about this new environment. Um so I gotta ask you just to kind of close it out. How would you plug the company for the folks watching that might want to engage with you guys. What's the elevator pitch? What's the positioning? How would you describe thought spot in a bumper sticker or in a positioning statement. Take a minute to talk about that. >>Remember martin Anderson said that software is eating the world, I think it is now time to update that data is eating everything including software. If you don't have a way to turn data into bespoke action for your customers. Guess what? Your customers are gonna go somewhere where they that's happening right? You may not be in the data business but the data company is going to take your business. Thought spot is very simple. We want to be the friend tent for all cloud data when it comes to structured because that's where business value numbers is world satisfaction and dissatisfaction for reduces allying it is important to move data to action and thought Spot is the pioneer in doing that through search and I >>I really think you guys want something very powerful. Looking forward to chatting with you at the upcoming eight of a startup showcase. I think data is a developer mindset. It's an app, it's part of everything. It will. Everyone's a data company, everyone is a media company. Data is everything you guys are on something really big and people got a program it with it, make experiences whether it's simple scripts, point and click. That is a new kind of developer out there. You guys are tapping into it. Great stuff. Thank >>you for coming on. Thank you john it's good to talk to you. >>Okay. It's a cube conversation here in Palo alto California were remote. We're virtual. That's the cube virtual. I'm sean for your host. Thanks for watching. Mhm. Mhm

(upbeat music) >> We are entering a new era of cyber attacks. The SolarWinds hack it underscored a rising and very disturbing trend. Namely that tunneling in through an organization's supply chain. And you're hearing terms like island hopping and living off the land to becoming mainstream in the world of cybersecurity. And we're going to talk a little bit about ransomware and cyber with Manoj Nair, who is the GM of Metallic, a Commvault Company. And Tim Carben, is a Principal Systems Engineer with Mitchell International. Gents welcome. Thanks so much for coming on. Talk to me about this very important topic. So, Tim, I got to start with you, you're the practitioner. You got to fight this battle every day. You heard me upfront it feel like we are entering a new era. The adversary is highly capable, very well-funded. How are you thinking about changes in protecting your data and creating things like air gaps and what are you doing to solve this problem? >> I think the most important part. And this is just to start off with is patching, everything up to date. Most of the time someone's getting in, or most of the time one of these viruses is replicating between the different systems. It's due to unpatched environments. And then number two is training. If your resources don't know, not to click on something or to hover over something to look at it. Then, you are just going to be exposing your environment over and over and over again. But when it all boils down to it, and it comes back to what I'm doing in the data protection world in the backup and recovery, I have to look at not only how am I going to get this data back. Because if a system gets encrypted we are going to look for recovery first. That's it, look for recovery first. But we also need to make sure that our environment is protected. Lock down our media agents. Lock down our storage that we're connected to. And like you had mentioned before use an air gap. And no one... I mean, everyone's been moving away from tape and it's understandable. There's a lot of resource utilization involved. There's a lot of people that you need in there in your data center, moving things around. And it's a robotic machine, you have to rely on. Not only that, but recovery times can be slow. What I found is Commvault is gone out there and they've offered us SaaS storage. This SaaS storage is somewhere else. We could be in AWS. We could be in Azure. We could be in GCP but we can still connect to this SaaS storage. And we never have to worry about someone having access to a data center and getting to our tapes. We don't have to worry about someone having tenant access and deleting our backups off of a particular tenant. Which is something that we are going to see in the future if it's not out there already. So, there's a lot that we have to do and protecting ourselves is very important. And Commvault is making it a lot easier. >> Thank you, Tim. So, Manoj I mean, these things have probably been around for a while but we're seeing really sort of, I talked about mainstream and a couple of things that are really disturbing. We're seeing this malware come in and they're self forming. They're creating different signatures but we're also seeing this idea of living off the land very stealthily using your own tools against you. And then really disturbingly, we're seeing when you discover... When a victim discovers that they're being attacked and they respond... Their incident response is triggering a very aggressive counter attack by the hackers. Where they've already exfiltrated really sensitive data. Then they'll then they... And they've been stealing and making monetizing your data. And then they'll just encrypt it, hold it for ransom, threaten to release that sensitive data if you don't let them keep going. It's really, really disturbing. What's your perspective on this raising the bar that the bad guys have done and how we can keep pace? >> Yeah, Dave. I lived through the nation state attack that happened in 2012. The front door seat was at RSA as part of the leadership team. And at that time it was considered a this is a very unique and it's an advanced persistent threat. It took the resources of one of the biggest nations of the world to mount something like that. And fast forward, eight, nine years later, we're seeing that these kinds of techniques have now been mainstreamed. You've got a lot of people who are figuring out not just... They may not even care about your data but they know you care about your data. So they're not trying to exfiltrate the data maybe to look for sensitive data and monetize it. That's just harder. Why not take it directly from you. In Q1 of 2021, the average ransomware ransom went up 43%. It's like 250K or something. That's just the ransom. And we saw now that it's impacting day-to-day lives. You saw the long lines of the gas things gas pumps on the East coast a weekend before last and as somebody who had a ransomware attack as the news story say they'd paid for the ransom. And that was the recovery after paying 5 million was slow. So they had to go and figure out how to recover from the backups. And that was not fast enough. So defense in depth is something that has really been the mantra and just like protecting a home, you're not just looking at putting an alarm on the front door. You have sensors on your windows. You have a fire alarm. You've got to say if you got different things too in terms of really thinking through different trends. And Tim hit on a couple of those things. You really think about what is my weak link? What is my vulnerability? That vulnerability is now your software supply chain. So you're thinking about who am I buying things from? Are they taking care of stuff because they are now a new vector? And that's kind of the biggest I would say new thing that has not been mainstream. Like a lot of these techniques are getting mainstream but the fact that a software supply chain itself that is being deployed in mass is now vulnerable? And that will be monetized. It might've started with the nation state doing that but then you'll get the... People trying to take it for ransom. They'll start weaponizing those same vulnerabilities. So really that data and making sure that your crown jewels you have a very safe way of protecting them. And it's not just... You need to practice in readiness of that. Like any system. Just having that there it's not good enough, like can I detect issues? What is the ecosystem that's part of? How is my identity tracking who has got access to that? We've seen a lot of interesting things as part of why we started creating services like a air gap service in the cloud. The customer doesn't have to worry about managing credentials because even those were getting compromised. People were stealing the credentials to go delete the backup. So, the steps keep leaping forward. There's a lot of money going in the research and development of malware. And the industry in partnership with customers and partnership with local and federal authorities are going to have to figure out how to tackle this together. >> Yeah. So Tim, you don't mean Commvault, you don't think of being the cybersecurity space specifically, but those worlds are coming together the data protection and security space. And I would imagine for you as a practitioner it's challenging because you don't have a blank chequebook. I mean, yes, you can spend... You have to spend on cyber but you have all these... You talked about digital transformation in an earlier discussion that we had and you've got to figure out, how do I apply AI and automation? You've got a talent gap. I mean, you can't hire people that have the skills because you just can't keep throwing people at the problem. So, you don't have this unlimited budget. I saw a stat there's a company it's Cybersecurity Ventures. They said by 2025 we'll lose $10.5 trillion annually to cyber attacks. And I think if I look at it, who's ever numbers. You look at IDC I think has one of the higher numbers out there. It's like a hundred billion that we spend each year on cyber. So it's infinitesimal compared to the value that the bad guys are extracting. So, how are you dealing with that complexity, fragmented security tooling lack of talent turnover? I mean, all this stuff and the budget challenges. How do you deal with all that? >> It's... And I do not want to use this word, but it's as easy as research and staying on top of everything. Everyone knows, you update your virus definitions. You keep that up-to-date. You close your firewall holes. You have denies at the very end of every firewall. You make sure you keep track of these small things. At the same time, you leverage utilities that make it easier for you to do your job. The Commvault iDA has a feature that keeps track of changes or modifications on a server. So if I have a server, that's actively getting hit with a ransomware. Commvault reports me in a word and tells me, "Hey, we have had this many files modified within this time period. Look at it right now." So, on top of everything else we have because it's not a replacement for our virus protection but it does help us. And it does keep track of things in Commvault, as well as a lot of other companies out there, are doing some great things in closing up small little gaps and adding little features that could really help us move forward in the future. And keep us more protected, I guess I should say. >> Yeah. Well Manoj, I mean the backup Corpus is a sort of the last line of defense. It's also could be a first point of attack because all the valuable data is in there. So, I'll give you the last word here on the segment. Thanks for doing this with me guys. How do you think the industry needs to approach this? It's not a... You can't go on it alone. You definitely need to collaborate. Your final thoughts. >> Yeah, collaborate, share risk factors, making sure that systems are connected and they're not siloed. And that will really make sure our customers are getting the best out of all of us. And you have to build an intelligence of the product anything static. Just like you said, you need to backup the cyber crown jewels or they're going to go after that. So, your backup systems need to have AIML. They need to be able to detect any kind of suspicious activity. You can't just kind of code it in and just expect that what you thought would work in the lab is how it's going to behave. So, but it's a... And in general unless there's a bigger penalty in terms of the response to these kinds of attacks, as long as they keep getting paid, they're going to keep doing this thing. So you got to follow the money is a simple work. Let's take that a rich ecosystem, that's funding them and replace it with a tight partnership between companies and the customers and partners and governments. >> Guys. Well, I mean, the equation is pretty simple. Value equals benefit over cost. If you can increase the denominator for the bad guys it'll lower their ROI and that's kind of your job. And so keep up the good work, gents. Thanks so much for coming to theCUBE and talking to me about this very important topic. Really appreciate it. >> Thank you. Thank you for having us. >> And thank you for watching this CUBE Conversation. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) We are entering a new era of cyber attacks. The SolarWinds hack has underscored a rising and very disturbing trend, namely that tunneling in through an organization's supply chain. And you're hearing terms like island hopping and living off the land it becoming mainstream in the world of cybersecurity. And we're going to talk a little bit about ransomware and cyber with Manoj Nair who is the GM of Metallic, a Commvault company. And Tim Carben, as a Principal Systems Engineer with Mitchell International. Gents, welcome. Thanks so much for coming on and talking to me about this very important topic. So, you know, Tim, I got to start with you, you're the practitioner, you got to fight this battle every day. You heard me upfront, it feels like we're entering a new era, the adversary is highly capable, very well-funded. How are you thinking about changes in protecting your data and creating things like air gaps. What are you doing to solve this problem? >> I think the most important part, and this is just to start off with, is patching everything up to date. Most of the time someone's getting in, or most of the time one of these viruses is replicating between the different systems it's due to unpatched environments. And then number two is training. If your resources don't know not to click on something, or to hover over something, to look at it, then you are just going to be exposing your environment over and over and over again. But when it all boils down to it, and it comes back to what I'm doing in the data protection world, in the backup and recovery, I have to look at not only how am I going to get this data back, because if a system gets encrypted we are going to look for recovery first. That's it. Look for recovery first, but we also need to make sure that our environment is protected, lock down our media agents, lock down our storage that we're connected to, and like you had mentioned before, use an air gap. Everyone's been moving away from tape and it's understandable. There's a lot of resource utilization involved. There's a lot of people that you need in there in your data center, moving things around, and it's a robotic machine you have to rely on. Not only that, but recovery times can be slow. What I found is Commvault has gone out there and they've offered us SaaS storage. This SaaS storage is somewhere else. We could be in AWS, we could be in Azure, we could be in GCP but we can still connect to the SaaS storage. And we never have to worry about someone having access to our data center and getting to our tapes. We don't have to worry about someone having tenant access and deleting our backups off of a particular tenant, which is something that we are going to see in the future, if it's not out there already. So there's a lot that we have to do and protecting ourselves is very important and Commvault is making it a lot easier. >> Thank you, Tim. So, these things have probably been around for a while but we're seeing really, I talk about mainstream, and a couple of things that are really disturbing, and we're seeing these malware come in and they're self forming, they're creating different signatures. But we're also seeing this idea of living off the land very stealthily using your own tools against you. And then, really disturbingly, we're seeing when a victim discovers that they're being attacked and they respond, their incident response is triggering a very aggressive counter attack by the hackers, where they've already exfiltrated really sensitive data, they've been stealing and making monetizing your data. And then they'll just encrypt it, hold it for ransom, threaten to release that sensitive data, if you don't let them keep going. It's really, really disturbing. What's your perspective on this raising the bar that the bad guys have done and how we can keep pace? >> And Dave. I lived through the nation-state attack that happened in 2012. The front door seat I was at RSA as part of the leadership team. And, at that time it was considered this is a very unique and it's an advanced, persistent threat. It took the resources of one of the biggest nations of the world to mount something like that. And fast forward, eight, nine years later we're seeing that these kinds of techniques have now been mainstreamed. You've got a lot of people who are figuring out not just that. They may not even care about your data, but they know you care about your data. So they're not trying to exfiltrate the data maybe to look for sensitive data and monetize it. That's just harder. Why not take it directly from you? In Q1 of 2021 the average ransomware ransom went up 43%. It's like $250k or something. That's just the ransom. And we saw now that it's impacting day-to-day lives. You saw the long lines of the gas tanks, gas pumps on the East Coast. You know, the weekend before last. And here's somebody who had a ransomware attack. As the news story say, they'd paid for the ransom. And that was the recovery after paying 5 million was slow, so they had to go and figure out how to recover from the backups. And that was not fast enough. So, you know, defense in depth is something that has really been the mantra, and just like protecting a home, you're not just looking at putting in an alarm on the front door, you have sensors on your windows, you have a fire alarm. You got to see if you got different things too, in terms of really thinking through different threats. And Tim hit on a couple of those things, right? You really think about what is my weak link, what is my vulnerability? That vulnerability is now your software supply chain. So you're thinking about whom am I buying things from? Aren't they taking care of stuff because they are now a new backdoor. And that's kind of the biggest, I would say new thing, that has now been mainstreamed. Like a lot of these techniques are getting mainstream, but the fact that a software supply chain itself that has being deployed in mass is now vulnerable, and that will be monetized. It might've started with the nation-state doing that, but then you'll get people trying take you for ransom will start weaponizing those same vulnerabilities. So really that data and making sure that your crown jewels you have a fail-safe way of protecting them. And it's not just, you know, you need to practice the readiness of that. Like any system, just having that there is not good enough, like, can I detect issues? What is the ecosystem that's part of? How is my identity tracking who has got access to that? We've seen a lot of interesting things and is part of why we started creating services like a air gap service in the cloud. The customer doesn't have to worry about managing credentials, because even those were getting compromised. People were stealing the credentials to go delete the backup. So that the steps keep moving forward. There's a lot of money going in the research and development of malware. And the industry, in partnership with customers and partnership with local and federal authorities, are going to have to figure out how to tackle this together. >> Yeah. So Tim, Commvault. You don't think of it being in the cybersecurity space specifically, but those worlds are coming together, the data protection and security space. And I would imagine for you as a practitioner it's challenging because you don't have a blank checkbook. I mean, yes, you can spend, you have to spend on cyber, but you have all these, you talked about digital transformation in an earlier discussion that we had, and you've got to figure out, okay how do I apply AI and automation? You've got a talent gap. I mean, you can't hire people that have the skills because you just can't keep throwing people at the problem. So, so you don't have this unlimited budget. I saw a stat, there's a company, it's cyber security ventures, they said, "by 2025 we will lose $10.5 trillion annually to cyber attacks." And I think if I look at whosever numbers, you look at IDC, I think has one of the higher numbers out there, It's like 100 billion that we spend each year on cyber. So it's infinitesimal compared to the to the value that the bad guys are extracting. So how are you dealing with that complexity, fragmented, you know, security tooling, lack of talent, turnover I mean, all this stuff, and the budget challenges. How do you deal with all that? >> I do not want to use this word, but it's as easy as research, and staying on top of everything. Everyone knows you update your virus definitions. You keep that up-to-date. You close your firewall holes. You have denies at the very end of every firewall. You make sure you keep track of these small things. At the same time, you leverage utilities that make it easier for you to do your job. The Commvault iDA has a feature that keeps track of changes or modifications on a server. So if I have a server that's actively getting hit with a ransomware, Commvault reports me an alert and tells me , "Hey, we have had this many files modified within this time period. Look at it right now." So on top of everything else we have, because it's not a replacement for our virus protection, but it does help us. And it does keep track of things. And Commvault, as well as a lot of other companies out there are doing some great things in closing up small little gaps, in adding little features that could really help us move forward in the future, and keep us more protected, I guess I should say. >> Yeah. I mean the backup corpus is sort of the last line of defense. So it also could be a first point of attack because all the valuable data is in there. So I'll give you the last word here on the segment. Thanks for doing this with me, guys. How do you think the industry needs to approach this? It's not, you can't go and lead alone. You definitely need to collaborate. Your final thoughts. >> Collaborate, share risk factors, making sure that systems are connected and they're not siloed. And that will really make sure our customers are getting the best out of all of us. And you have to build an intelligence of the product. Anything static, just like you said, if the backup is the crown jewel how are they're going to go after that? So your backup systems need to have AI/ML. They need to be able to detect any kind of suspicious activity. You can't just kind of code it in and just expect that what you thought would work in the lab is how it's going to behave. And in general, unless there's a bigger penalty in terms of the response to these kinds of attacks, as long as they keep getting paid, they're going to keep doing this thing. So you got to follow the money is a simple work. Let's take that rich ecosystem that's funding them, and replace it with a tight partnership between companies and customers and partners and garments. >> Guys. Well, the equation is pretty simple. Value equals benefit over cost. If you can increase the denominator for the bad guys it'll lower their ROI, and that's kind of your job. So keep up the good work, gents. Thanks so much for coming to the Cube and talking to me about this very important topic. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And thank you for watching this Cube Conversation. This is Dave Vellante. We'll see you next time. (quirky music)

>> Commvault was an idea that incubated as a project inside of bell labs, one of the most prestigious research and development organizations in the world, back in the day. It became an official company in 1996, and Commvault just celebrated its 25th anniversary. As such, Commvault has had to reinvent itself many times over the past two and a half decades. From riding the waves of the very early PC networking era, to supporting a rich set of solutions for the evolving enterprise. This includes things like cloud computing, ransomware disaster, recovery, security compliance, and pretty much all things data protection and data management. And with me to talk about the company, its vision for the future, with also a voice of the customer. Three great guests, Isabel Geese is the Chief Marketing Officer of Commvault, Manoj Nair is the GM of Metallic, and Tim Carben is a principal systems engineer with Mitchell International. Folks, welcome to the Commvault power panel. Come inside the cube. It's awesome to have you. >> Great to be here Dave. >> All right. First of all, I got to congratulate you celebrating 25 years. That's a long time, not a lot of tech companies make it that far and are still successful and relevant. So Isabelle, maybe you could start off. What do you think has been the driving factor for your ability to kind of lead through the subsequent technological waves that I alluded to upfront? >> So well, 25 years is commendable but we are not counting success in number of years we're really counting success in how many customer we've helped over those years. And I will say what has been the driving mater for us as who that has been innovating with our customers. You know, we were there every step of the way, when they migrate to hybrid cloud. And now as they go to multi cloud in a post COVID world, where they have to win gold you know, distributed workforce, different types of workloads and devices, we are there too. We have that workload as well. So the innovation keep coming in, thanks to us listening to our customer. And then adding needs that change over the last 25 years and probably for the next 25 as well. You know, we, we want to be here for customer who think that data is an asset, not a liability. And also making sure that we offer them a broad range of use cases to book why things simple because the word is getting too complex for them. So let's take the complexity on us. >> Thank you for that. So Manoj, you riffed on the cube before about, you know putting on the, the binoculars and looking at the future. So let's talk about that. Where do you see the future for this industry? What are some of the key driving factors that matter. >> Dave it's great to be back on the Cube. You know, we see our industry no different than lots of other industries. The SAS model is rapidly being adopted. And the reason is, you know customers are looking for simplicity simplicity not just in leveraging, you know the great technology that Commvault has built but in the business model and the experience. So, you know, that's one of the fastest growing trends that started in consumer apps and other applications, other B to B apps. And now we're seeing it in core infrastructure like data management, data protection. They're also trying to leverage their data better, make sure it's not fragmented. So, how do you deliver more intelligent services? You know, securing the data insights from the beta, transforming the data and that combination, you know our ability to do that in a multi-cloud world like Isabel said, now with increasing edge work loads. Sometimes, you know, our customers say their data centers are the new edge too. So you kind of have this, you know, data everywhere, workloads everywhere, yet the desire to deliver that with a holistic experience, we call it the power of bank. The ability to manage your data and leverage the data with the simple lesson without compromise. And that's really what we're seeing as part of the future. >> Okay. Manoj I to come back to you and double click on that but I want to introduce Tim to the conversation here. You bring in the voice of the customer, as they say. Tim, my understanding is Mitchell has been a Commvault customer since the mid two thousands. So tell us why Commvault? What has kept you with the company for more than 15 years? >> Yeah! It was what, 2006 when we started and really when it all boils down to it, it's just as Isabel said, innovation. At Mitchell we're always looking to stay ahead of the trend. And, you know, just to like was mentioned earlier data is the most important part here. Commvault provides us peace of mind to protect and manage our data. And they do data protection for all of our environments, right now. We've been a partner to help enable our digital transformation including SAS and cloud adoption. When we start talking about the solutions we have, I mean we of course started in 2006. I mean, this was version six, if I remember right, this predates me at the company. Upgraded to seven, eight, nine. We brought in 10, brought in 11, brought in hyper scale and then moved on to bring in the Metallic. And Commvault provides the reason for this. I guess I should say is, Commvault provides a reliable backup but most importantly, recovery, rapid recovery. That's what gives me confidence. That's what helps me sleep better at night. So when I started looking at SAS, as a differentiator to protect our 036 environments or 065 environments. Metallic was a natural choice, and the one thing I wanted to add to that is it came out cheaper than us building it ourselves. When you take into account resources, as well as compute and storage. So again, just a natural choice. >> Yeah. As the saying goes, back up is one thing, recoveries everything. Isabel you know we've seen the SAS suffocation of the enterprise, particularly, you know from the app side. You came from Salesforce. So you, the company that is the poster child for SAS. But my question is what's catalyzing this shift and why do you think data protection is ready to make the move? >> Well, there's so many good things about SAS. You know, you remember when people started moving to the cloud and transforming their CapEx into OPEX, well SAS bring yet another level of benefits. I.T, we know always has to do more with less. And so SAS allows you to, once you set up you've got all the software upgrades automatically without you know, I think it's smart work. You can better manage your cash flow because you pay as you grow. And also you have a faster time to value. So all of this at help, the fast adoption and I will tell you today, I don't think there is a single customer who doesn't have at least one SAS application because they have things of value of this. Now, when it comes to backup and recovery, everybody's at different stages you still have on premise, you have cloud, they have SAS and workloads devices. And so what we think was the most important was to offer a raw choice of delivery model. Being able to support them if they want software subscription, if they want an integrated appliance or easy one as SAS. As a service model, and also some of our partners are actually delivering this in a more custom and managed way as well. So offering choice because everybody is at a different stage on this journey when it comes to data management and protection, I actually, you know I think team is the example of taking full advantage or this broad choice. >> Well, you mentioned Tim that you leaned into Metallic. We have seen the SAS everywhere. We used to have a email server, right? I mean, (laughing) on prem, that just doesn't happen anymore. But how was Mitchell International thinking about SAS? Maybe you could share your, from your customer perch, what you're seeing. >> Well, What's interesting about this is Mitchell is been providing SAS for a long time. We are a technology company and we do provide solutions, SAS solutions to our customers. And this makes it so important to be able to embrace it because we know the value behind it. We're providing that to our customers. And when I look at what Commvault is doing I know that Commvault is doing the same thing. They're providing the SAS model as a value to their customers. And it's so important to go with this because we keep our environments cutting edge. As GDPR says, you need to have a cutting edge environment. And if you don't, if you cannot check that box you do not move forward. Commvault has that. And this is one less thing that I have to worry about when choosing Metallic to do my backup of O365. >> So thank you for that, Tim. So Manoj, thinking about what you just heard from Isabel and Tim, you know kind of fitting into a company's cloud or hybrid cloud, more importantly strategy, you were talking before about this. And in other words, it's not an either or, it's not a zero sum game. It's simpatico, if you will. I wonder if you could elaborate. >> Yeah. The power of band Dave I'm very proud of that. You know, when I think of the power of band I think of actually folks like Tim, our customers and Commonwealth first, right. And, really that need for choice. So for example, you know customers on various different paths to the cloud, we kind of homogenize it and say, they're on a cloud journey or they're on a digital transformation journey but the journey looks different. And so part of that, and as Isabella was saying is really the ability to meet them where they are in that journey. So for example, do you, go in there and say, "Hey, you know what I'm going to be some customers 100% multi-cloud or single cloud even. And that includes SaaS applications and my infrastructure running as a service." So there's a natural fit there saying great all your data protection. You're not going to be running software appliances for that. So you've got to data protection, data management as a service that Metallic is able to offer across the whole estate. And that's, you know, that's probably a small set of customers, but rapidly growing. Then you see a lot more customers were saying I'm going to do away as you're talking about with the email server, I'm going to move to Office 365 leverage the power of Teams. And there's a shared responsibility model there which is different than an on-prem data protection use case. And so they're, they're able to just add on Metallic to the existing Commvault environment whether it's a Commvault software or hyper-scale and connect the two. So it's a single integrated experience. And then you kind of go to the other end of the spectrum and say "great" customers' all in on a SaaS delivered data protection, as you know and you hear a lot from a lot of your guests and we hear from our customers, there's still a lot of data sitting out there. you know 90 plus percent of workloads in data centers, increasing edge data workloads. And if you were to back up one of those data workloads and say that the only copy can be in the cloud, then that would take like a 10 day recovery SLA. You know, we have some competent users who say that then that's what they have. Our flexibility, our ability to kind of bring in the hyper-scale deployment and just, you know dock it into Metallic and have a local copy instant recovery, SLA, remote backup copy in the cloud for ransomware or your worst case scenario. That's the kind of flexibility. So all those are scenarios we're really seeing with our customers. And that's kind of really the power of mandates. Very unique part of our portfolio. Companies can have portfolio products but to have a single integrated offering with that flexibility, that kind of depending on the use case you can start here and grow into a different point. That's really the unique part of the power event. >> Yeah, yeah. 10 day RTO just doesn't cut it, but Tim, maybe maybe you could weigh in here. Why, what was the catalyst for you adopting Metallic and maybe you could share what was the business impact there? >> Well, the catalyst and impact obviously two different things. The catalyst, when we look at it, there was a lot of what are we going to do with this? We have an environment, we need to back it up and how are we going to approach this? So we looked at it from a few different standpoints and of course, when it boils down to it one of the major reasons was the financial. But when we started looking at everything else that we have available to us and the flexibility that Commvault has in rolling out new solutions, this really was a no brainer, at this point. We are able to essentially back up new features and new products, as soon as they're available. within our Metallic environment we are running the activate. We are running the, the self-service for the end users, to where they can actually recover their own files. We are adding the teams into it to be able to recover and perform these backups for teams. And I want to step aside really quick and mention something about this because I'd been with, you know, Metallic for a long time and I'd been waiting for this. We've been waiting for an ability to do these backups and anyone I know, Manoj knows that I've been waiting for it. And you know, Commvault came back to me a while back and they said, we just have to wait for the API. We have to wait for Microsoft to release it. Well, I follow the news. I saw Microsoft released the API and I think it may have been two days later that Commvault reached out to me and said, Hey we got it available. Are you ready to do this? And that sort of turned around, that sort of flexibility, being on top of new applications with that, with Salesforce, that is, you know just not necessarily the reason why I adopted Metallic but one of those things that puts a smile on my face because I adopted Metallic. >> Well, that's an interesting story. I mean, you get the SDKs and if you're a leader you get them, you know, you can put the resources on it and you're ready when, when the product comes to GA. Manoj, I wonder if we could talk about just the notion of backing up a SAS. Part of the announcements today included within Metallica included backup and, and offerings for dynamics 365. But my question is why support dynamics specifically in in SAS apps generally? I mean, customers might say, doesn't my SAS provider protect my data. Why do I need a third party? And, and the second part of that question is why Commvault? >> Dave, a great question as always. I'll start with the second part of the question. It's really three words, the shared responsibility model, and, you know, a lot of times our customers, as they go into the cloud model they really start understanding that there is something, that you're getting a lot of advantages that certain things you don't have to do. But the shared responsibility model is what every cloud and SAS provider will indoctrinate in it's in desolate. And certainly the application data is owned by the customer. And the meaning of that is not something that, you know some SAS provider can understand. And so that requires specialized skills. And that's a partnership where we've done this now very successfully with Microsoft and LG 65. We've added support for Salesforce, And we see a rapid customer adoption because of that shared responsibility model, If you have a, some kind of an admin issue as we have seen in the news somebody changed their team setting and then lost all their chat. Then that data is discoverable. And you, the customer, responsible for making sure that data is discoverable or ransomware attacks. Again, covering that SAS data is your responsibility because the attack could be coming in from your instance, not from the SAS provider. So those are the reasons dynamics is, you know one of the fastest growing SAS applications from a business applications perspective out there. And as we looked at our roadmap and you look at at the right compliment. What is arriving by the agency, we're seeing this part of a Microsoft's business application suite growing, you know, millions of users out there and it's rapidly growing. And it's also integrated with the rest of the Microsoft family. So we're now, you know, proud to say that we support all three Microsoft clouds by Microsoft 365 dynamics. Those applications are increasingly degraded so we're seeing commonality in customer base and that's a business critical data. And so customers are looking to manage the data, have solutions that they can be sure they can leverage, it's not just protecting data from worst-case scenarios. In the case of some of the apps like dynamics we offer a support, like setting up the staging environment. So it's improving productivity off the application admins and that's really kind of that the value we're bringing able to bring to the table. >> Yeah. You know, that shared responsibility model. I'm glad you brought that up because I think it's oftentimes misunderstood but when you talk to CSOs, they understand it well. They'll tell you the shared responsibility is my responsibility. You know, maybe the cloud provider who will secure the the object storage bucket for the physical space, but it's, it's on me. So that's really important. So thank you for that. Isabelle, last question. The roadmap, you know how do you see Commvaults, Metallic, SAS portfolio evolving? what can you tell us? >> Oh, well, it has a big strategic impact on Commvault for sure, first because all of our existing customer as you mentioned earlier, 25 years, it's a lot of customer will have somehow some workload as SaaS. And so the ability without adding more complexity without adding another vendor just to be able to protect them in one take, and as teams, they bring a smile to his face is really important for us. The second is also a lot of customer come toCommvault from Metallic. This is the first time they enter the Commvault community and Commvault family and as they start protecting their SaaS application they realize that they could leverage the same application to protect their on-premise, data as well. So back to the power of hand and without writing off their past investments, you know going to the cloud at the pace they want. So from that perspective, there is a big impact on our customer community that quickened that Metallic brings. I don't know Manojs' way too humble, but, you know he doubled his customers every quarter. And, you know, we have added 24 countries to the portfolio, to the product. So we see a rapid adoption. And so obviously back to your question, we see the impacts of Metallic growing and growing fast because of the market demand because of the rapid innovation. We can take the Commvault technology and put it in the SaaS model and our customers really like it. So I'm very excited. I think it's going to be, you know, a great innovation, a great positive impact for customers and our new customer will welcome it, which by the way I think half, Manoj correct me but I think half of the Metallic customer at Commvault and the other half are new to our family. So, so they're very bullish about this. And it's just the beginning, as you know we all 25 year old or sorry, 25 year young and looking forward to the next 25. >> Well, I can confirm, you know we have a data partner, survey partner ETR enterprise technology research, and I was looking at the Commvault data and it shows within the cloud segment, when you cut the data by cloud, you're actually accelerating the spending momentum is accelerating. And I think it's a function of, you know some of the acquisitions you've made some of the moves. You made an integration. So congratulations on 25 years and you know you're riding the correct wave. Isabel, Manoj, Tim thanks so much for coming in the cube. It was great to have you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Dave. >> I really appreciate it. >> And thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Volante for the Cube. We'll see you next time.

(Upbeat Music) >> Commvault was an idea that incubated as a project inside of Bell Labs, one of the most prestigious research and development organizations in the world, back in the day. It became an official company in 1996, and Commvault just celebrated its 25th anniversary As such, Commvault has had to reinvent itself many times over the past two and a half decades from riding the waves of the very early PC networking era to supporting a rich set of solutions for the evolving enterprise. This includes things like cloud computing, ransomware, disaster recovery, security compliance, and pretty much all things data protection and data management. And with me to talk about the company, its vision for the future with also a voice of the customer are three great guests. Isabelle Guis is the Chief Marketing Officer of Commvault, Manoj Nair is the GM of Metallic, and Tim Carben is a Principal Systems Engineer with Mitchell International. Folks, welcome to the Commvault power panel. Come inside theCUBE. It's awesome to have you. [Isabelle] Great to be here today. >> All right. First of all, I got to congratulate you celebrating 25 years. That's a long time, not a lot of tech companies make it that far and are still successful and relevant. So Isabelle, maybe you could start off. What do you think has been the driving factor for your ability to kind of lead through the subsequent technological waves that I alluded to upfront? >> So well, 25 years is commendable but we are not counting success in number of years. We're really counting success in how many customers we've helped over those years. And I will say what has been the driving matter for us as who that, has been innovating with our customers. You know, we were there every step of the way when they migrate to hybrid cloud. And now as they go to multi-cloud in a post COVID world where they have to win gold you know, distributed workforce, different types of workloads and devices, we all there too. We assess workload as well. So the innovation keep coming in, thanks to us listening to our customer and then, adding needs that change over the last 25 years and probably for the next 25 as well. You know, we want to be here for customer was thinking that data is an asset, not a liability. And also making sure that we offer them a broad range of use cases to quote why things simple because the world is getting too complex for them. So let's take the complexity on us. >> Thank you for that. So Manoj, you've riffed on the cube before about, you know putting on the binoculars and looking at the future. So, let's talk about that. Where do you see the future for this industry? What are some of the key driving factors that matter? >> It's great to be back on theCUBE. You know, we see our industry no different than lots of other industries. The SaaS Model is rapidly being adopted. And the reason is, you know customers are looking for simplicity, simplicity not just in leveraging, you know the great technology that Commvault has built, but in the business model and the experience. So, you know, that's one of the fastest growing trends that started in consumer apps and other applications, other B to B apps. And now we're seeing it in core infrastructure like data management, data protection. They're also trying to leverage their data better. Make sure it's not fragmented. So how do you deliver more intelligent services? You know, securing the data, insights from the data, transforming the data, and that combination, you know, our ability to do that in a multi-cloud world like Isabelle said, now with increasing edge work loads. Sometimes, you know, our customers say their data centers has a new edge too. So you kind of have this, you know, data everywhere workloads everywhere, yet the desire to deliver that with a holistic experience, we call it the 'power of bank'; the ability to manage your data and leverage the data with the simple lesson without compromise. And that's really what we're seeing as part of the future. >> Okay. I don't know if all want to come back to you and double click on that, but I want to introduce Tim to the conversation here. You bring in the voice of the customer, as they say. Tim, my understanding is Mitchell has been a Commvault customer since the mid-2000s. So, tell us why Commvault, what has kept you with the company for more than 15 years? >> Yeah, we are, it was what, 2006 when we started. And really what it all boils down to it, it's just as Isabel said, innovation. At Mitchell, we're always looking to stay ahead of the trend. And, you know, just to like was mentioned earlier, data is the most important part here. Commvault provides us peace of mind to protect and manage our data. And they do data protection for all of our environments right now. We've been a partner to help in navel our digital transformation including SaaS and cloud adoption. When we start talking about the solutions we have, I mean we of course started in 2006. I mean, this was version version 6 if I remember right. This predates me at the company. Upgraded to seven, eight, nine, we brought in ten, brought in eleven, brought in HyperScale, and then moved on to bring in the Metallic. And Commvault provides the reason for this. I guess I should say is, Commvault provides a reliable backup but most importantly, recovery. Rapid recovery. That's what gives me confidence. That's what helps me sleep better at night. So when I started looking at SaaS as a differentiator to protect our 036 environments or 065 environments, Metallic was a natural choice. And the one thing I wanted to add to that is, it came out cheaper than us building it ourselves. When you take into account resources as well as compute and storage. So again, just a natural choice. >> Yeah. As the saying goes back up as one thing, recovery's everything. Isabelle. Yeah, we've seen the SaaSification of the enterprise. Particularly, you know from the app side. You came from Salesforce. So you, the company that is the poster child for SaaS. But my question is what's catalyzing this shift and why do you think data protection is ready to make the move? >> Well, there's so many good things and that's that. As you know, you remember when people started moving to the cloud and transforming their CAPEX into OPEX. Well SaaS bring yet another level of benefits. IT, we know always has to do more with less. And so SaaS allows you to, once you set up, you've got all the software upgrades automatically without you know, I think it's, why it works. You can better manage your cash flow, because you pay as you grow. And also you have a faster time to value. So all of this at help, the fast adoption and I will tell you today I don't think there is a single customer who doesn't have at least one SaaS application because they have things of value of this. Now, when it comes to backup and recovery everybody's at different stages. You still have On-Premises, you have cloud, there's SaaS, there's Workloads devices. And so what we think was the most important was to offer a broad choice of delivery model being able to support them if they want a software subscription, if they want an integrated appliance, or if they want SaaS as a service model, and also some of our partners actually delivering this in a more custom and managed way as well. So offering choice, because everybody is at a different stage on this journey. When it comes to data management and protection, I actually, you know, I think team is the example of taking full advantage of this bold choice. >> Well, you mentioned Tim that you leaned into Metallic. We have seen the SaaS everywhere. We used to have a email server, right? I mean, you know, On-Prem, that just doesn't happen anymore. But how was Mitchell International thinking about SaaS? Maybe you could share your, from your customer perch, what you're seeing. >> Well, what's interesting about this is, Mitchell is been providing SaaS for a long time. We are a technology company and we do provide solutions, SaaS solutions, to our customers. And this makes it so important to be able to embrace it because we know the value behind it. We're providing that to our customers. And when I look at what Commvault is doing I know that Commvault is doing the same thing. They're providing the SaaS Model as a value to their customers. And it's so important to go with this because we keep our environments cutting edge. As GDPR says, You need to have a cutting edge environment. And if you don't, if you cannot check that box you do not move forward. Commvault has that. And this is one less thing that I have to worry about when choosing Metallic to do my backup of O365. >> So thank you for that, Tim. So Manoj, thinking about what you just heard from Isabelle and Tim, you know, kind of fitting into a company's cloud or hybrid cloud, more importantly, strategy, you were talking before about this. "And", in other words, it's not an either or it's not a zero sum game. It's simpatico, if you will. I wonder if you could elaborate. >> Yeah, no The Power of And, Dave, I'm very proud of that. You know, when I think of The Power of And I think of actually folks like Tim, our customers and Commonwealth first, right. And, and really that, that need for choice. So for example, you know, customers on various different paths to the cloud we kind of homogenize it and say, they're on a cloud journey or they're on a digital transformation journey, but each journey looks different. And so part of that, "And", as Isabella was saying, is really the ability to meet them where they are in that journey. So for example, you know, do you, go in there and say, Hey, you know what, I'm going to be some customers 100% multi-cloud or single cloud even. And that includes SaaS applications and my infrastructure running as a service. So there's a natural fit there saying great all your data protection. You're not going to be running software appliances for that. So you've got to data protection, data management as a service that Metallic is the able to offer across the whole S state. And that's, you know, that's probably a small set of customers, but rapidly growing. Then you see a lot more customers were saying I'm going to do away as you're talking about but the emails are where I'm going to move to office 365, leverage the power of teams. And there's a Shared Responsibility Model there which is different than an On-Prem data protection use case. And so they're, they're able to just add on Metallic to the existing Commonwealth environment, whether it's a Commonwealth software or HyperScale, and connect the two. So it's a single integrated experience. And then you kind of go to the other end of the spectrum and say, great customers all in on a SaaS delivered data protection, as you know, and you hear a lot from a lot of your guests and we hear from our customers, there's still a lot of data sitting out there, you know, 90 plus percent of workloads and data centers increasing edge data workloads. And if you were to back up one of those data workloads and say that the only copy can be in the cloud, then that would take like a 10 day recovery isolation. You know, we have some competitors who say that then that's what they have. Our flexibility, our ability to kind of bring in the Hyper-Scale deployment and just, you know, dock it into Metallic, and have a local copy, instant recovery, SLA, remote, you know, backup copy in the cloud for ransomware, or your worst case scenario. That's the kind of flexibility. So all those are scenarios we're really seeing with our customers. And that's kind of really the power advantage. A very unique part of our portfolio, but, you know, companies can have portfolio products, but to have a single integrated offering with that flexibility, that kind of, depending on the use case, you can start here and grow into a different point. That's really the unique part of the power event. Yeah, 10 day RTO just doesn't cut it, but Timmy, maybe you could weigh in here. Why, What was the catalyst for you adopting Metallic and maybe you could share what was the business impact there? >> Well, the catalyst and impact, obviously two different things. The catalyst, when we look at it, there was a lot of what are we going to do with this? We have an environment, we need to back it up, and how are we going to approach this? So we looked at it from a few different standpoints, and of course, when it boils down to it, one of the major reasons was the financial. But when we started looking at everything else that we have available to us and the flexibility that Commvault has in rolling out new solutions, this really was a no brainer at this point. We are able to essentially back up new features and new products, as soon as they're available. Within our Metallic environment, we are running the activate. We are running the the self-service for the end users to where they can actually recover their own files. We are adding the teams into it to be able to recover and perform these backups for teams. And I want to step aside really quick and mentioned something about this because I'd been with, you know, Metallic for a long time and I'd been waiting for this. We've been waiting for an ability to do these backups and anyone I know Manoj knows that I've been waiting for it. And you know, Commvault came back to me a while back and they said, we just have to wait for the API. We have to wait for Microsoft releases. Well, I follow the news. I saw Microsoft released the API, and I think it may have been two days later. Good. Commvault reached out to me and said, Hey we got it available. Are you ready to do this? And that sort of turned around that sort of flexibility being on top of new applications with that, with Salesforce, that is, you know, just not necessarily the reason why I adopted Metallic but one of those things that puts a smile on my face because I adopted Metallic. >> Well, that's an interesting story. I mean, you get the SDKs and if you're a leader you get them, you know, you can put the resources on it and you're ready when, when the product, you know, comes to GA. Manoj, I wonder if we could talk about just the notion of backing up SaaS, part of the announcements today included within Metallic included backup and offerings for Dynamics 365. But my question is why support Dynamics specifically in SaaS apps generally? I mean, customers might say, doesn't my SaaS provider protect my data? Why do I need a third party? And, and the second part of that question is why Commvault? >> Dave a great question as always. I'll start with the second part of the question. It's really three words the Shared Responsibility Model. And, you know, a lot of times our customers as they go into the cloud model they really start understanding that there is something that you're getting a lot of advantages the certain things you don't have to do, but the Shared Responsibility Model is what every cloud and SaaS provider will indoctrinate in its S&As. And certainly the application data is owned by the customer. And the meaning of that is not something that, you know, some SaaS provider can understand. And so that requires specialized skills. And that's a partnership. We've done this now very successfully with Microsoft and LG 65, we've added support for Salesforce, and we see a rapid customer adoption because of that Shared Responsibility Model. If you have, some kind of, an admin issue as we have seen in the news somebody changed their team setting and then lost all their chat. And then that data is discoverable. And you, the customer is responsible for making sure that data is discoverable or ransomware attacks. Again, recovering that SaaS data is your responsibility because the attack could be coming in from your instance not from the SaaS provider. So those are the reasons. Dynamics is, you know, one of the fastest growing SaaS applications from a business applications perspective out there. And as we looked at our roadmap, and you look at at the right compliment, what is the right adjacency, we're seeing this part of Microsoft's Business Application Suite growing, you know, as millions of users out there and it's rapidly growing. And it's also integrated with the rest of the Microsoft family. So we're now, you know, proud to say that we support all three Microsoft clouds, Microsoft Azure, or 365, Dynamics. Those applications are increasingly integrated so we're seeing commonality in customer base and that's a business critical data. And so customers are looking to manage the data, have solutions that they can be sure they can leverage. It's not just protecting data from worst-case scenarios. In the case of some of the apps like Dynamics, we offer a support, like setting up the staging environment. So it's improving productivity of the application admins, and that's really kind of that the value we're bringing able to bring to the table. >> Yeah. You know, that Shared Responsibility Model. I'm glad you brought that up because I think it's oftentimes misunderstood but when you talk to CSOS, they understand it well. They'll tell you the shared responsibility is my responsibility. You know, maybe the cloud provider will secure the object storage bucket for the physical space, but it's on me. So that's really important. So thank you for that. Isabelle, last question, the roadmap, you know, how do you see Commvault's, Metallic SaaS portfolio evolving? What can you tell us? >> Oh, well, it's, it has a big strategic, you know, impact on Commvault for sure on the first portfolio first because of all of our existing customers as you mentioned earlier, 25 years, it's a lot of customers are somehow some workload as SaaS. And so the ability without, you know, adding more complexity without adding another vendor just to be able to protect them in one take, and as teams they bring a smile to his face is really important for us. The second is also a lot of customers come to Commvault for Metallic. This is the first time enter the Commvault community and Commvault family. And as they start protecting their assessed application they realize that they could leverage the same application to protect their own premised data as well. So back to The Power of And, and without writing off their past investments, you know, going to the cloud at the pace they want. So from that perspective, there is a big impact on our customer community the thing is that Metallic it brings I don't know Manoj is way too humble, but, you know, he don't go to this customer every quarter. And, you know, we have added 24 countries to the portfolio, to the product. So we see a rapid adoption. And so obviously back to your question, we see the impacts of Metallic growing and growing fast because of the market demand, because of the rapid innovation we can take the Commvault technology and put it in the SaaS model and our customers really like it. So I'm very excited. I think it's going to be, you know, a great innovation, a great positive impact for customers, and our new customers we're welcoming, which by the way I think half, Manoj correct me, but I think half of the Metallic customer at Commvault and the other half are new to our family. So, they're very bullish about this. And it's just the beginning, as you know, we are 25 years old, or sorry, 25 years young, and looking forward to the next 25. >> Well, I can confirm, you know, we have a data partner survey, partner ETR, Enterprise Technology Research, and I was looking at the Commvault data and it shows within the cloud segment, when you cut the data by cloud, you're actually accelerating, the spending momentum is accelerating. And I think it's a function of, you know, some of the acquisitions you've made, some of the moves you made in integration. So congratulations on 25 years and you know, you're riding the correct wave, Isabelle, Manoj, Tim, thanks so much for coming in theCUBE. It was great to have you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you Dave. >> I really appreciate it. >> And thank you everybody for watching. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE. We'll see you next time. (Upbeat Music)

>> From theCUBE's studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with all leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE Conversation. >> Hello, everyone, this is Dave Vellante and welcome. We're going to do a little preview of ThoughtSpot Beyond, and we're going to look at the intersection of cloud, data, search and analytics. For a decade, we've been collecting all this information and tapping data sources for many, many different places. Now we're at the point where we can very cost-effectively and quickly put data into the hands of many orders of magnitude, more users so the data can inform opinions and ultimately actions. With me is Sudheesh Nair, who's the CEO of ThoughtSpot. Sudheesh, it's always a pleasure to have you on theCUBE. Thanks for coming on. >> Absolutely, my pleasure, Dave. Thanks for having me. >> You know it's ironic that we start this decade with so much disruption to our lives. It's forced us to become digital businesses really overnight. I wonder if you could talk about the role of data as it relates to our digital lives? >> I think the idea that data somehow directly impacts our lives sometimes can be farfetched. That is because we don't really talk about it in the right way. Data can be this archaic mountain of things that people don't really connect with. What we should really be talking about is what data does, the byproduct, the end product of data, which is the signal that we get out of the mountain of data, the insight that we derive from it and the action, the bespoke actions that makes our lives possible in this new world that we are all living in. If you really do a good job of talking about what data does for you or the by-product of what the data does for you, I think people will understand that we are incredibly connected, incredibly dependent on the signals that we derive from the data that we are giving out to the world that we are operating in today. >> We had a fire ready and aim because the speed at which we've had to adapt as we've never seen this before. I'm wondering if you could share with us what you're seeing. What kind of challenges this creates for organizations, specifically in terms of being able to leverage their data assets? >> See, I think if you think of the last eight, nine months, sometimes in our industry, it is easy to sort of look at this as an opportunity, more of an opportunistic way of looking at how can I sell more data driven things when the world is sort of falling apart. You walk on a downtown, you see all these restaurants closed, parking lots empty. My sort of less than in the last eight, nine months is to be more outside-in as opposed to inside-out. That is, why are we doing this, is now more important than what we are doing. In that context, my biggest lesson that I've learned is that the thing that stand in the way of delivering value for customers almost always is not technology, not product and not even quality of data. A lot of data people will say it is the data quality that is holding me back from doing. It is lack of courage, lack of vision, lack of ability to sort of empathize with your customers and truly see what can we do to make their lives better, where data driven insights might be a part of it. I really believe that organizations that are differentiating by providing better services where they use data to do that are clearly coming out ahead as we are looking at the end of this global pandemic. >> It's interesting what you're saying about data quality, because I agree with you. I actually think it's access to data because as a business user, I can look at data, ask a couple of questions and say, I can get pretty close to the truth. If you think about organizations generally, but specifically business users, they've been clamoring for more fast style access to data and really the time is now for them to realize this vision. I wonder if you could share with us what's happening in ThoughtSpot business in the past month, 'cause that's what you're all about, is that easy, fast access to data. >> I always talk about the decision making pipeline. I know one end, you have the data that customers are happy to give. However, it's a two way street. They are saying, look, I'll give you my data, in return I want you to do two things. Number one, make sure it is safe and protected. Number two, you are using that data to deliver a bespoke experiences for me, bespoke services for me. That is I'm giving you the data so you will get to know me and treat me as an individual, as a person with the likes and dislikes that are different from someone else's. If you don't do that, you're breaking that contract. When I think of this continuum of data to insight to knowledge to action, action is where the users benefit. I sort of sometimes worry that the chasm that exists between the people who can speak the data, the SQL, the data, warehouse people who have usually the answers and not necessarily have the questions because questions are usually coming from the business users. Our sort of purpose in life as a company in the world has been simple. That is let us break that barrier. Let's move that silos and then unify so that people with questions can get answers. People who know the business can get the answer from the data without any tax on their curiosity. It is easier said than done, but it is a journey. I strongly believe that pushing the ability to inquire and get insights from the data all the way to the front line, where business users interact with their customers, the businesses customers, the consumers, the clients, if you don't do that properly, there is no way to keep up with the velocity of change that the world is throwing at your business. >> So speaking of the data sources, one of the data sources I sometimes look at it, you look at the stock market, it is funny. The last month Pfizer announces they got a very highly successful trial and the stock market goes up 800 points. You sort of look at that and say, that's a data point. I recently released a number of pieces on cloud and its impact. After that you saw up on a cloud stocks, everybody panicked, sell tech. Even though written cloud's not immune to COVID, it's clear from our data that cloud migration has been very much accelerated since the pandemic hit and I don't really see that changing. I wonder if you could talk about the ways in which you see cloud changing, how organizations operate and really what's missing when it comes to getting the most out of their cloud investments, specifically around analytics. >> It is like any other function. Data analytics is not different in what the cloud does for the customers. I used to always talk about the world of computing, the world of technology as a race against commoditization. Imagine that it's a ocean that is warming and there's an iceberg that is floating on it. As the ocean warms the iceberg is melting and if you want to survive, you've got to keep going up the mountain, the iceberg mountain. In this example, the commoditization of technology is the ocean. Anything that you think is unique, anything that you think is proprietary, it's going to get commoditized. The reason why that's happening is because people want to go up the value chain. That's the iceberg, that's the mountain. If you use that metaphor, what you will see here is that people want to go up the value that the data analytics deliver as opposed to how cool or how differentiated the process of delivering value is. Let me explain that. Imagine that you are producing a lot of content, I am pretty sure that you have ways to sort of collect the data on how it is making an impact. That is how many people watched it, how many of them were young versus old versus Salesforce engineering versus marketing versus... You can slice and dice the data. That is where today's data analytics stops. Now, imagine if you can take it to the next level, that is what impact is it having on my consumers? Are they able to get better jobs, for example, because of a technology that you talked about or theCUBE's ability to sort of democratize access, the way sometimes you take complex technology and simplify it. Is that making easier for some execs to catch up with the speed with which technology is changing? In turn, which makes their business model agile. Our thesis is that when we stop data analytics at the noise level, the data level, the insight level, we are only doing half the job. We need to go all the way through that value chain, climb all the way up in that iceberg and think for the customer. What am I doing for the customer? There are recent examples of our banks, largest of large banks, where they had inherent bias when it comes to how they were giving loans to minorities and people of color, or the people who have an accent on the phone, they're actually calling on customer support. These sort of things are not an AI problem or a BI problem, these are human problems. By breaking the barrier between business users and their consumers, where data become an inherent part of deficient making, you can make tangible difference in the world. I think that is what we are trying to do. I know it sounds somewhat naive and utopian, but I do think this is possible if you really approach it outside-in. >> And outside-in thinking is critical. I want to pick up on something you said about kind of moving up the value chain. We've watched over the last decade, sort of the SASification of many industries. You guys recently announced ThoughtSpot Cloud, which was your first SAS offering. Tell us, how's it going? What's the uptake like, the adoption? What are customers telling you about what it's doing for their business? >> Again, this is the same outside-in story. It is relatively new, it's only been a month. The interest is pretty high and we have closed a handful of customers. I don't want to claim victory yet, but the signs have been very positive and it does not surprise me because it aligns with that story that I talked about growing up the value chain. Traditionally, when we deployed ThoughtSpot, we deployed in the customer's VPC, their own cloud or in the data center. The problem is when you are doing that, they are responsible for integrating the data, connecting the data, prepping the data, managing it. There's a lot of work that goes with it. But ThoughtSpot I would ask you, is it possible for us to do as much for the customer with TS Cloud, ThoughtSpot Cloud? That is you just go to ThoughtSpot Cloud and connect to your SAS data warehouse services that you may have, but there's Snowflake or Redshift or in a DBQ, Google BigQuery, or a Microsoft synapse and then get going immediately. To give you an idea, a typical ThoughtSpot deployment used to take around four to five months, now it is taking around 35 minutes. That's what ThoughtSpot Cloud does for our customers. If it happens in 35 minutes, their business of delivering value to their clients is happening that much faster. >> Everything shifts to actually getting insights as opposed to setting stuff up. One of the other things to do that I've been reporting on. I've said in the last decade, we kind of moved from really a product centric world to one that's more platform centric, particularly with cloud and SAS. The latest research that we've been doing shows that ecosystems, we think are going to power the next wave of innovation. I wonder what your view is of that premise and how you're thinking about ecosystems as a lever of growth. >> This word platform is one of the most abused word in our industry because people like to say, don't say product, say solution, and then say, don't say solution use platform. In reality, a platform is useless if people are not standing on. If you're standing on a railway platform, nobody's there, watch the point? The same thing applies to business, our business as to when it comes to platform. A platform is only a real platform if there are other players making money of what you have built. If you build a platform, all it does is a bunch of API. Nobody's consuming, it's not useful. In that context, we have long ways to go, we have really long ways to go. I do think one of sort of... I wouldn't say mistake, but one of the oversights that our sport had was not delivering on the vision of platform. That it is easy to make for others to come together and do commerce on ThoughtSpot. Most importantly, make sure that it is not just easy but when customers come to them, that one plus one is like 10 or 11, as opposed to one plus one equal two. That is something that we have to remedy. At the Beyond Conference, next month on December 9th, you will see us make some interesting announcements around this thing. It is one of my favorite sort of projects because once we do that very well, you will see that it becomes a platform. Think of Stripe, think of Square. These are platforms because it made their customers' lives easier, but at the same time, multiple companies could come together to deliver joint solutions where the sum is much bigger than equals of the parts. That is a vision that ThoughtSpot needs to really deliver on and Beyond will be a stock. >> I mean, the power of many versus the resources of one and this is well understood over time and now we're seeing it really applied to our industry. Sudheesh, a lot of the analytics that we produce today are the result of humans clicking and typing and interacting with systems. That's obviously going to continue to grow, but you think about things like IOT, the build-out of 5G, it brings this whole new dimension of machine to machine communications and tons of new data. Much of the data out there is analog, today, it's being increasingly become digital. How are you thinking about these trends in terms of the impact on your company and your customers? >> I think if anyone asks me, what does ThoughtSpot do for the data analytics world? My answer is very simple. We have introduced a new interface to access structure data that can be used by anybody, search that is driven by AI, that's an AI driven search. That core idea is about scale, but more importantly, rate of change. That's where the new inventions around 5G where the bottlenecks are being removed at IoT and mobile. I mean, we want to put mobile as well. So you have mobile devices, IOT devices, very big pipe, and then cloud on the backend where processing and storing is cheap. Now if you think of that, it is a 12 lane super highway, all the way to the end user, all the way to the end device, to the mothership. When you have that much speed and when you remove everything, you have to think about the asset, the artifacts that you build out of that kind of a data stream. That's where the old way of looking at dashboards will die. It's not a question of if or when it is dying. What we need is now to make sure that at that speed, when the data is changing much faster than ever before, you have new way to deliver insight to the people who can act on it, which is business users. If you think of it, there used to be cases where companies used to make supply chain decisions for the year. Now, supply chain decisions are made monthly because you don't know what next month will look like with COVID. When you have annual decisions become monthly decisions, monthly decisions become weekly decisions, weekly decisions became minute by minute decisions sometimes like placing social media sentiment changes, things like that, there is no way that you can depend on a Monday morning report or a Monday morning meeting, and then send out, here is what you need to do, action items to the front end. Everyone should have the pulse on where the business is, which is where the data is going to help them. However, human experience is so critical. You don't want to remove human experience. That's why as we deliver more and more on 5G and IoT, making the data as it is changing and then delivering those signals that insights directly to business users in the frontline is going to be like the de facto way businesses will operate. I think we are just beginning that journey in terms of what is possible. >> Well, it reminds me of when we were kids, the coaches would tell us, go to where you think the ball is going to be, find opportunities for that open space, not to where it is today. That's the notion of whether it's soccer or basketball, or of course, hockey skate to the puck is obviously a famous term. So how do you stay ahead of that disruption curve in a space like analytics? What are the innovation opportunities that organizations should be tapping today and beyond? >> I was thinking about this a lot myself, which is the important thing is to be ready to unlearn. I know it is a simple thing but it was one of the most difficult things because as you grow up in the organizations, as you become an exec, as you gain more experience, we actually calcify our knowledge. That's a problem, because things are changing. There are new way to do things, new opportunities. Being open to unlearning is going to be more critical than learning new things sometimes. That will require humility. I won't say it's a go learn AI, or go learn a new language or Python or coding. Those things might be necessary, but having that mentality of willing to unlearn and then having the courage to make some difficult decisions. If you do those two things, I think this is an exciting role. And if you're not, you're going to go the wayside of a lot of industries have been going. >> That's great advice. I mean, we saw that a lot coming into the pandemic. There was a lot of complacency around digital and of course there isn't anymore. Sudheesh, thanks so much for joining me in this CUBE Conversation. It's always great to talk to you. >> Thank you for taking the time, I appreciate it. >> My pleasure. Thank you for watching, everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE, will see you next time. (bright upbeat music)

from around the globe it's thecube with coverage of kubecon and cloudnativecon north america 2020 virtual brought to you by red hat the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners and welcome back to thecube's coverage of kubecon cloudnativecon 2020 virtual i'm john furrier your host of thecube we are thecube virtual normally we're in person this year with the pandemic we have to do the remote interviews and uh wish we could be there but it's gonna be a great conference a lot of learning a lot of great conversations a lot of great community a lot of great companies who are riding the cloud weight native wave and doing it right one company pleased to have the gm here on from commvault ventures metallic io monognaire gm metallic dot io commvault ventures is it a spin out no it's great to see you first welcome welcome back to thecube great to see you thank you thank you good to be here good good to be back with you guys so you're a cube alumni i've been on many times you're now heading up this venture um metallic io which is doing extremely well good you know case of great timing and good good savvy business planning and strategic vision um and execution um but i want to just kind of get something straight real quick is it a spin out of com commvault is it a separate company what's the relationship with metallic io and commvault yeah so it's set up as a you know as a complete startup um it's uh incubated and fully owned by commvault uh but you know we have our you know full full company just like running my separate startup you know metallic is set up as a startup and uh you know it's uh some people joke right you know it's like one of those millennial kids you know i get to have a deep pocketed parent commvault and access to a lot of ip and great customers at the same time be a startup and drive fast in this cloud native sasquatch yeah we also have the microsoft you know deep partnership so that's the other angle here with metallic having a deep strategic partnership with microsoft you know the theme this year and all the shows especially kubecon in particular is modern application but speed speed and relevance right that's critical congratulations good to have a boss sanjay over there looking over your shoulder but you got freedom you're running hard as a startup and you got a good track record take me through real quick give a quick business update before we get into some of the container conversations you guys really caught the tailwind of covid kind of like the zoom caught a big tail because everyone's doing video now cloud endpoint protection i mean come on everyone's at home everyone's at the edge edge point protection i mean tell us give some quick updates absolutely you know a year plus since we launched it um i think initially the company was thinking metallic would be really good fit for the mid market and maybe the low end enterprise was always built to be enterprise grade and you know come march all of us get you know stunned by what's happening in the world we decided to make our endpoint offer available free for our customers jointly with microsoft and all it was not mid market i mean i had fortune 15 companies signing up we had the biggest of the big several of them have now become you know customers of our spa paying customers of us one of the world's largest insurance company came in that way and signed up for all their users to end up being paying customers and you think about like protecting endpoints right that's uh you know all the bad things kind of happened in droves so you have covet happening people going remote and ransomware and cyber attacks taking off 400 as the fbi is saying and that kind of becomes a very high risk point so to be able to have not just data protection but ransomware detection on those edge devices i think companies are really starting to see the the value of uh having that kind of a you know data protection as a service model well congratulations on on the timing on that i'll say there's no such thing as luck as preparation meets opportunity as the expression goes but i get why it makes sense with the pandemic but can you explain why cloud-based container protection is good for customers beyond the obvious you just mentioned what else is there what are some of the downs down downstream benefits as people come out of you know it uh you know the the uh things that people are accelerating right it's uh okay we've got to take care of the basics we talked about endpoint then it's cloud adoption um productivity suites like o365 with teams you know took off as you were talking about zoom and how do you protect that you know how do you protect all that data being created now in a platform that uh you were not protecting so that was kind of that next immediate wave and now what we're seeing is the hybrid cloud adoption is taking off now containers in my mind are intricately linked with in this hybrid cloud journey right these are the apps that people build this is your sensitive most important ip and you know how as enterprises adopt containers it's one of the paths to the cloud and it is really the most recommended plan is you take microservices you re-platform re-architect use containers to deliver microservices and these are enterprise applications so they have state and so with stateful applications you know how do you make sure that you have a cloud-native data protection available for them the second issue is the developers who are adopting and deploying containers in production they don't want to be going out deploying software to protect you know these things they want a i just want an api a service call in the cloud and they should do what i you know i do like any other cloud native service so you know cloud native protection that we're delivering for containers with our announcement today for metallic is is huge in that it behaves like a native cloud service just like you know a developer wants an api call with a cloud target no setup nothing and it's up and running yeah i mean cloud native is clear this year at kubecon this is the tipping point of you know full mainstream adoption of kubernetes and microservices so that means it's going to be impacted right so that means you know we're all early adopters let's face it we're at a point now where it's it's gone beyond test and dev and cluster testing you know kubernetes has now reached a point where it's penetrating and proliferating rapidly so i got to ask you the announcements about metallic for kubernetes as part of the broader portfolio expansion explain how that fits in because you mentioned hybrid cloud you got um back up as a service you got recovery i mean the world's changed who would have thought everyone's gonna be working at home how do you back that up that's service disruption so you know non-disruptive operations always been kind of a cliche but now you got a complicated operation how does the kubernetes fit into the broader portfolio absolutely so so it is part of a three new announcements uh the new new solutions we're announcing today all connected to this hybrid journey and you think about that hybrid journey and part of what happens with hybrid you know got all these paths rewrite re-platform re-host and uh part you know you got this whole desegregation of data and compute also happening so our offerings are you know there's a metallic for virtual machines and kubernetes uh as a service uh we've got metallic for database uh delivered as a service and metallic for unstructured data file an object and all of those are key parts of a you know cloud native stack you'll have some you know rds some some you know azure managed sql some blob storage and we had to protect all those patterns in different ways at the same time virtual machines are not going away they're going to be there and you know a lot of people say that container is a new virtual machine so what we have done is we have introduced the vm and kubernetes module but anyone who buys that gets container protection for free so anyone who buys that for the next six months for the lifetime of the subscription they get unlimited kubernetes backup as a service uh for free the reason we're doing that is just we want to make sure especially our early adopters are taking full advantage and and they're not compromising on the data protection for this cloud native application as they think through this transition you know that's a good business model also i mean you're in the cloud right so this is leverage you've got some leverage there yeah that's the new freemium we'll give you a full protection you know what's the gimmick here there's no there's no trick you get it for free it's good because you're going to make money on other air again this is the whole benefit of the new kind of freemium sas you're in an enterprise model so yeah you take care of people you make it up on the critical infrastructure i get that is that kind of how it's working it's exactly you know what uh we're thinking you know look today um you know i saw saw some stats out there 75 percent of the people who are adopting containers are not yet thinking about you know data protection for containers has to be container optimized you can't just say okay you know the data is in the vm i'll just do a snapshot and it'll be fine now what about all of the container specific you know namespaces tags the config maps pod you cannot recover this cluster if you don't have a real container native solution and so that you know for part of the thought leadership and education process we said let's let's start by just making it available take all the excuses out and that really you know i think over time our customers are going to really benefit from our approach there well while i got you here i want to just grab you uh for a quick definition master class so we see b-a-a-s not to be confused with sas or p pass platform as a service b stands for backup as a service right everything's as a service these days that's what cloud's great for could you can you define what that is from with a cloud standpoint because i mean backup as a service it could mean many things but for as you guys are doing because you have success it's working what is baas that's as a what is backup as a service what is definition yeah so backup as a service in my mind and some people call it cloud native backup really includes delivering you know turnkey experience turnkey consumption model i should be able to go sign up like any other as a service free try it if i like it immediately do an online experience to you know acquire it and be up and running our design goal was first backup even for a complex enterprise workload should be less than 15 minutes from from transaction today we're able to do it in a matter of minutes all the way from acquisition to being up and running so i'd say that's part of the definition part of the definition is never having to maintain your backup software ever that's not your responsibility we take care of that it's always updated we're using the best of uh cloud you know capabilities to do sre ops and maintain that in a very scalable 24 7 way security of the service you know between us and all the security capabilities we provide ransomware detection and all that and building on top of azure's foundation of 3500 security engineers you know that's the key component you should not have to worry this is your data your most critical the last part is cloud adoption is complicated enough for customers they shouldn't have to worry about things like egress costs and you know am i going to get nickel and dime for the service over ages and so just price transparency is a big part that we have focused on so you know our customers are double 365 they don't have to ever pay for any storage unlimited storage no egress costs and the whole thing is a turnkey service so that's the kind in my mind that's backup as a service yeah and pay as you go it's classic and i love that love the the hidden cost thing you mentioned this demand obviously out there earlier in the interview what's driving the demand besides kovid what are some of the architectural shifts that you're seeing and does it have um the same characteristics in all geographies because remember you're talking cloud you're talking regions right so you know what's the driving the demand besides covid and what's the regional impact around the world no they were seeing a global impact uh you know we had a plan to have a multi-year global rollout plan and in the last six months we have now in 14 countries around the globe and that just maps to the interest uh you know we're we're in australia and new zealand where we just launched 10 european countries last month in the u.s canada of course and that global journey is what we're seeing with our customers so you know that the pain points you know the covet crisis the economic shift uh the need to be as a service those are the things that are really driving um we we talked about remote work we talked about teams adoption really driving o365 and people think oh 365 you know there's some you know folks who just think mailboxes but you know you've seen news stories out there with what happens with config changes to teams that just blows out all the all the chat sessions and so people understand the need for data protection there hybrid i.t containers rapid cloud adoption probably the biggest one is ransomware you know we launched this metallic cloud storage service that is an air gap ransomware cloud storage that can connect to any commvault customer they don't even have to be a metallic sas customer and that's had a you know on day two we had two and a half petabytes on up and running you know our first customer and it's just taken off so you know all of those are the trends that that are today driving uh you know customer adoption uh off uh you know of our solution uh along with everything else that customers are trying to do mineos i got to ask you a personal question you're the gm which basically means you're the ceo of the commvault startup but we'll call you a gm are you having fun well i'm having a lot of fun i mean this is uh probably the most fun i've had in a long time uh and look when you are doing things that are really impactful for me you know that's uh you know i'm sitting in my startup uh you know garage here in the bay area yeah and you know touching customers around the world we have a global team uh and it's it's been uh it's a challenging year right from a human uh perspective for for all the you know all of the folks who are impacted by this and our teams are part of that journey and so their personal lives that that are difficult but we're all you know working on this very very interesting and i think you know disruptive but impactful uh offering that we can see how it touches our customers wells and i think that's partly what's kept the team and all of us doing so yeah we're having a lot of fun well we're fellow travelers we're not on site anymore i mean we did an interview in 2015 you and i were talking with docker back in 25 years ago and you're still on point now you're on the wave you got to be mindful of the current situation around you and understand reality and it's a chance to do things differently from the customer you know backwards in not inside out so you know it's it's fun to have a new category but also it's it's a big wave you don't want to be as pat gelsinger said driftwood if you make the wrong move so well keep keep keep plugging you're on the right track thanks for coming on thank you john really appreciate the time maneuver gm of metallic dot io check it out it's a it's a separate company from commvault that funded it doing cloud as a service back backup as a service in the cloud very innovative very smart thanks for coming on my notes i'm john furrier with thecube virtual for kubecon cloudnativecon 2020. thanks for watching [Music] you

(royalty free music) >> Woman's voice: From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a cube conversation. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman coming to you from our Boston area studio and this is a special cube conversation. I have a special announcement from our friends at Commvault. So welcome back to the program. We have two of our cube alumni. First, we have Manoj Nair, he's actually the general manager of Metallic, which is a Commvault venture. First time Manoj on the program in your role with, with Commvault, welcome back. And also welcoming back Ranga Rajagopalan who's the vice president of products at Commvault. Ranga, caught up with you recently at the FutureReady event that we had over the summer. Thanks so much for joining us again. >> Sure. >> Alright. So Manoj, let's start. Metallic obviously was, you know, the standout you know, thing that everybody talked about last year at Commvault GO. Really helping to, you know, put Commvault clearly into the SaaS marketplace out there. Talking about how, you know, all the wonderful features for managing my data in a cloud environment. So there is an expansion to the portfolio that we're announcing today. Why don't you share the news? >> Yeah, absolutely Stu, you know, it's great to be back here with all of you and Metallic has come a long way from the launch. Just less than a year ago, we announced the creation of Metallic multiple different offerings whether it's protecting SaaS workloads like O365, remote endpoints and a hybrid cloud workloads. You know, the context that we're getting from our customers, especially in the last six months, increased cloud adoption and, you know, remote working collaboration suites being adopted. All of that has been a great accelerator for adoption of SaaS data protection, which is really what the Metallic is offering. We have gone to global countries and expanded to our Commvault customer base who was, you know, using both Commvault software and Metallic now. One of the key things that we're not, you know, today's announcement is focused on a Metallic cloud storage service that as a new service available for Commvault customers are looking to get a, you know, fully managed secure cloud-based SaaS target for protecting all of the data as an air gap copy and this is, you know, is more relevant than ever. >> So Manoj, using the cloud for data protection, for backup isn't new? Ranga, help us understand. I heard in there air gap, I heard, you know, leveraging the cloud. Absolutely, we've seen a huge tailwind for cloud adoption but there's that gap for making sure customers, you know, protect their data, secure their data. Do they have the skillset to be able to leverage that, so help help us drill in and understand what's different about this new service >> You're right Stu. Cloud is absolutely not new but what is really unique about today's announcement with metallic cloud storage service is that we are bringing cloud even closer to our Commvault customers. So thinking from a data management perspective, our customers want to more easily and securely get the benefits of cloud storage. What we are doing today is integrating Metallic cloud storage service as a cloud storage target into our Commvault software as well as our HyperScale X plans. And that lets our customers to seamlessly use cloud storage for their data protection, backup and archival use cases without needing to understand a lot about the cloud, without needing to get through any of the complexities. Think of it as the easy button that is now introduced into the Commvault software and HyperScale X. >> All right, so, if I heard you right, this is a managed service that Commvault is offering. Did I get that right? >> That's fast. >> Yeah >> So, you know, it's a managed service. It's public cloud storage. It's, as Ranga said, the easy button to be able to create your air gap copies in the cloud. And, you know, with everything that we keep hearing about ransomware, and we believe this is one of the, the, the most important steps in ransomware readiness, a lot of our customers are already doing it by bringing their own cloud storage on all the clouds we protect, but it's still not easy. And this is a skills gap, you know, the procurement process and all of that, you know, the management of the credentials, the setting up of the networking, all of that is encapsulated. So now, it's just, you know, it's like a built-in feature, just, you know plug it in and now you've got an on-ramp to the cloud. Make sure you have your air gap copy. >> Yeah, maybe it would help if you'd, if you'd talk about the easy button, give us a little compare contrast 'cause, right, I could go, I could spin up instance of the cloud, but, you know, who has access? What are the security settings? There's a whole litany of things that I need to make sure I've got the right identity management. It's kind of easy, but not necessarily simple to, to be able to do that. So from what you're describing I don't even need to really think, you know, yes, it's in the cloud, I'm leveraging all the wonderful things of the cloud, but I don't have to have that, that ramp up of skillset if I don't already have that in house as... Ranga, sounds like I'm understanding that. >> Yeah >> You know. >> Yeah, you're perfectly understanding and that's all there is to it. And let me expand on the PC part there, right? For us, simplicity is into end-customer experience. So I'm going to break this down from a customer life cycle perspective. Think of a Commvault customer who's backing up pretty much all the workloads in the data center. The first question they have is, you know, "For security reasons "for easy, or because I'm in a transformation project "I need to make, I need to start using cloud storage." So the first complexity they would face is understanding which cloud provider to use, what kind of cloud profile to use? or who their cloud or chasing model, which is very different from how they normally procure their hardware and software. So that's really the first dimension of simplicity that this Metallic cloud storage offer. Our customers can procure their cloud storage along with any other Commvault software and hardware just like they would do any other Commvault software. So that's the first level of simplicity. The second one is "How do I bring "that into my data management life cycle." And again, as I mentioned before, MCSS is fully integrated into Commvault software. So through the simplicity of command center, which is the one UI that brings all our products together, customers can just click to the cloud storage target and start backing up, moving copies, archiving, doing all the data management use cases, the second dimension of simplicity. And the third one really is the predictability. You know, cloud is beautiful, It brings a lot of flexibility, but it also brings in a lot of new terms. What are the egress charges? What does ingress mean? What does egress mean? What happens when I have the V store? What happens when I have the Ricola? So all of that complexity is taken away. We handle all of that in the backend. From the customer's perspective, just like they use CAP, just like they use the Desk, now, they can use cloud. We handled all the egress and all those kind of stuff in the backend. From the customer's perspective, they get a simple, predictable price point. So from the time of choosing, procuring it, using it and continuously getting the best benefits out of it, the easy button extends across that entire dimension. And the beauty in all of this is customers getting all the benefits of cloud without having to really understand much about cloud. So that's really the benefit we bring to the table with MCSS. >> Yeah. Manoj, Commvault has a long history of being able to live on, you know, various infrastructures that customers have. Are you able to share who the, I'm assuming there's a cloud partner for part of this, so who is the, the underlying IS? >> Yeah, so still, you know, end of June doing, we announced the next phase of our strategic partnership with Microsoft. So this is a, you know, one of the first big, new things that is coming out of the giant partnership between Commvault and Microsoft around Metallic and Microsoft Azure. There's a lot of things that, you know, we're jointly doing that are unique that make all of the simplicity Ranga, you know, just mentioned, come to life and, you know, that's, you know, power of the end as I call it. It's Commvault and Metallic and Microsoft, you know, coming together to make this really easy for our customers to start getting the value out of leveraging cloud for the data protection. Yeah. >> Well, Manoj, it seems natural extension of what you've already talked about for what Metallic can protect. Of course, you've got the, you know, the business suite from Microsoft, can you help frame it for us, you know, where this new, the MCSS fits in the Metallic portfolio today? >> Yeah absolutely. So if you look at, you know, what... I'll give you a customer journey and what's been happening. If you are not a Commvault customer today and you're looking at "What's my best 0365 data protection option," if you go to microsoft.com, you'll actually find Metallic in there as the recommended offer. And they, they might start the journey there or you're an existing Commvault customer and you start rapidly adopting teams and O365, you know, post COVID. The, the, you know, Metallic is the default option. So it doesn't matter how you enter in, you're now getting a full, you know, SaaS actual backup as a service, no storage costs, no egress costs. And so our Commvault customers have been asking, "We love that part of it, why not make that available "for all of the other data that is being protected "by Commvault, either appliance or software on-prem?" and, you know, in a very simple way, it's, you know, the best things are driven by customers. And in this case, our customers came to us and said, "We love the simple button "not just what's included in the Metallic service, "we would like that that to be available, even for, "you know, the existing software you're protecting on-prem "for the air gap copy use case is kind of the biggest one." And you know, all of the things that Ranga said in terms of simplicity now comes to bear. And it's something that we were including inside the Metallic SaaS offerings. Now, it's available for software and appliance customers. >> Yeah. I definitely, I've heard of the industry now. Microsoft seems a little bit more amenable to, you know, not charging for egress, with some of their partners, when they put together these solutions. Ranga, Manoj has mentioned air gap a couple of times, can you help us frame, you know, what that means today? You know, I even think back, you know, ape that most people are familiar with. Even, I think about, you know, Google, you know, use ape for many years even in the public cloud to give that air gap. Of course, we've talked to your customers lots about how to protect against ransomware. So how does, how does this fit in the new solution? >> You know, unfortunately, Stu today. It's, it's important reality for us to discuss the ransomware readiness. Number of attacks are going up depending on, you know, which your source you are listening to. So security is a very important concern in top of our customers' minds. Now, MCSS is cloud storage, so it is off site storage. So it comes with all the natural layered security that it's built into cloud storage. Additionally, Commvault brings a complete ransomware protection, protection and recovery framework, which becomes inherently available with the MCSS. And let me explain that in a few very simple quotes. Now, the entire journey from on-prem to the cloud storage is completely encrypted. So that's, you know, a very important part of the order on security mechanism, but here is where it really becomes cool Commvault software is managing the cloud credentials, the cloud keys. So the entire access to MCSS as a cloud storage target is managed to Commvault. So there isn't an independent cloud admin accessing that storage, which opens it up for any kind of an intentional or unintentional access. Anything can happen when you allow that access. So Commvault completely manages that access the keys are owned by the customer, but managed by a Commvault. So it's a really air gap security, layered security mechanism that you get in combination with the entire framework of air gap isolation, anomaly protection, the authentication, everything that is built into the Commvault framework. So when you, when you bring in the simplicity that we talked about earlier, you can apply that to the security angle as well here. Instead of making the customer manage yet another piece in the jigsaw, we are managing it for them. So from their perspective, it is a seamless extension to their data management strategy while it also adds an extra layer of security and a readiness to recover from ransomware attacks. >> While it's being launched today, we already have customers that have, you know, we have accelerated into adoption of MCSS and it's coming exactly for the scenarios Ranga just said. You know, they, they have a requirement for a cloud copy. If you have seen that on the Metallic SaaS side that some of the customers might be in pilot mode. And because they were in pilot mode, they were quickly able to recover from attacks that happened. Unfortunately, those, those things are reality. And we have had customers who after the attack go and say "I want to make sure it's much easier to recover from that." And so we already have our first customers who are starting to adopt the service even as we launch it today. >> Well. I'm so glad you brought up the customer examples. Manoj, give us a little bit just the high level view, you talked about the growth and adoption of Metallic overall, and you just talked about kind of the, the single management. You got any SaaS for us, you know, how much data do you have in the cloud now and, you know, what's the growth looking like? And talk a little bit about, you know, what we can expect going forward from this portfolio. >> Yeah, I, you know, I don't know how many people disclose this or not, but we have disclosed it in the past, we have over an exabyte of data today in the cloud that, you know, our customers are, you know, either using a Metallic or bringing their own cloud with Commvault and writing to the cloud. So, you know, that's probably, you know, best in class out there. What we are also seeing is the acceleration of that, you know, so we look at it's, you know, it's exponential growth over a hundred percent, you know, we're, we're seeing that, that rise in leverage yet it's something that when you look at the overall industry percentages, it depends on whose stats you use, it's probably only 5%, maybe 10% that are leveraging the cloud for anything, whether it's, you know, in this case, it's data, cloud data as a secondary target. So there's a lot of untapped potential. And the things that Ranga said I think really are the ones our customers are telling us as we tested this out. And those are the biggest reasons. Right cost, you know, I'm concerned about it. I've heard that it's unpredictable. It goes up, people start spinning up other things that they shouldn't be. And so I want predictable costs, you know, security and the whole model around it, the, the governance of the keys, and finally skills, everyone's busy, no one's trying to not be, you know, upping their cloud skills yet it's not something that is very, you know, very easy for most people to, you know, become an expert. And if you're not an expert while you're protecting your data, that's not, you know, that's not something you want to do, so you kind of hold back. And I think this is really the biggest thing that customers are looking at, like our cloud expertise packaged in an offering solving all those things? >> And Stu, we discussed this at FutureReady of how the Commvault portfolio continues to come closer and closer together in order to deliver that increased value to our customers. In July, when we were having a similar conversation, we saw how Hedvig came in as the scale load storage in our HyperScale X integrated data protection plans. And we can see that we have Metallic Cloud Storage Service coming in as a cloud extension to our software, as well as HyperScale X. So it's kind of bringing the best of both worlds, customers who want to continue to stay on for them, protect their on-prem workloads with on-prem footprint. You have HyperScale X as a very nice scale, which integrated our plans. And as the capacity needs increase, as the security needs increase, you have MCSS now as a managed storage extension, bringing together those pieces of the portfolio. Now, the thing that is now available already as of September 15 is our ability to manage Metallic as part of command center. So while you want that SaaS flexibility and you're using Metallic to protect the SaaS workloads let's also realize that there are a bunch of other workloads that you might be protecting using Commvault software all through HyperScale. We can now bring all of them together into the simplicity of command center. So it, again, takes away another point of complexity for the customer. Just one UI, go ahead, do protect the workloads the way you want. With the form factor you want. SaaS software, or our plans, and we bring it all together into a single management framework for you. So you're going to continue seeing the portfolio coming closer together because our prime concern is to provide flexibility of choice to customers. Flexibility of choice in so many different ways, you know, you can use software, our plans or SaaS. You can bring your own on-prem storage, cloud storage, or if you want to hit the simple button, use Metallic clouds for it. So, so you're going to see that happen as we move forward. >> Well. Manoj, Ranga, thank you so much for the updates. Congratulations on the launch. Love little tagline leading it. We're we're making the cloud just a little bit closer to us. >> It is, >> It is a lot closer. >> Thank you. Thank you Stu for your time. >> Thank you. >> I'm Stu Miniman. Thank you so much for watching theCUBE. (royalty free music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hi everybody, welcome to this CUBE conversation. This is Dave Vellante, and as part of my CEO and CXO series I've been bringing in leaders around the industry and I'm really pleased to have Sudheesh Nair, who is the CEO of ThoughtSpot Cube alum. Great to see you against Sudheesh, thanks for coming on. >> My pleasure Dave. Thank you so much for having me. I hope everything is well with you and your family. >> Yeah ditto back at you. I know you guys were in a hot spot for a while so you know we power on together, so I got to ask you. You guys are AI specialists, maybe sometimes you can see things before they happen. At what point did you realize that this COVID-19 was really going to be something that would affect businesses globally and then specifically your business. >> Yeah it's amazing, isn't it? I mean we used to think that in Silicon Valley we are sitting at the top of the world. AI and artificial intelligence, machine learning, Cloud, IOT and all of a sudden this little virus comes in and put us all in our places basically. We are all waiting for doctors and others to figure these things out so we can actually go outside. That tells you all about what is really important in life sometimes. It's been a hard journey for most people because of what a huge health event this has been. From a Silicon Valley point of view and specifically from artificial intelligence point of view, there is not a lot of history here that we can use to predict the future, however early February we had our sales kick off and we had a lot of our sellers who came from Asia and it became sort of clear to us immediately during our sales kick off in Napa Valley that this is not like any other event. The sort of things that they were going through in Asia we sort of realized immediately that us and when it gets to the shores of the US, this is going to really hurt. So we started hunkering down as a company, but as you mentioned early when we were talking, California in general had a head start, so we've been hunkered down for almost five weeks now, as a company and as the people and the results are showing. You know it is somewhat contained. Now obviously the real question is what next? How do we go out? But that's probably the next journey. >> So a lot of the executives that I've talked to, of course they start with the number one importance is the health and well-being of our employees. We set up the work from home infrastructure, et cetera. So that's I think, been fairly well played in the media and beginning to understand that pretty well. Also, you saw I talked to Frank Slootman and he's sort of joked about the Sequoia memos, that you know eliminate unnecessary expenses and practices. I've always eliminated unnecessary expenses, keep it to the essentials, but one of the things that I haven't probed with CEOs and I'd love your thoughts on this is, did you have to rethink sort of the ideal customer profile and your value proposition in the specific context of COVID? Was that something that you deliberately did? >> Yeah so it's a really important question that you asked, and I saw the Frank interview and I a 100% agree with that. Inside the company we have this saying, and our co-founder Ajeet actually coined the phrase of living like a middle-class company, and we've always lived that, even though we have, 300 plus million dollars in the bank and we raised a big round last year. It is important to know that as a growth stage company, we are not measured on what's in the bank. It's about the value that we are delivering and how much I'll be able to collect from customers to run the business. The living like a middle-class family has always been the ethos of the company and that has been a good thing. However, I've been with ThoughtSpot for a little more than 18 months. I joined as the CEO. I was an early investor in the company and there are a couple of big changes that we made in the last 18 months, and one of is moving to Cloud which we can talk. The other one has been around narrowing our focus on who we sell to, because one of the things that, as you know very well Dave, is that the world of data is extremely complex. Every company can come in and say, "We have the best solution out there" and it can just be in the world, but the reality is no single product is going to solve every problem for a customer when it comes to a data analytics issue. All we can hope for is that we become part of a package or solution that solves a very specific problem, so in that context there's a lot of services involved, a lot of understanding of customer problems involved. We are not a bi-product in the sense of Tableau or click on Microsoft, but they do. We are about a use case based outcomes, so we knew that we can't be everywhere. So the second change we made is actually a narrower focus, exclusively sell to global. That class, the middle class mentality, really paid off now because almost all the customers we sell to are very large customers and the four work verticals that we were seeing tremendous progress, one was healthcare, second was financial sector, the third was telecom and manufacturing and the last one is repair. Out of these four, I would say manufacturing is the one where we have seen a slowdown, but the other verticals have been, I would say cautiously spending. Being very responsible and thus far, I'm not here to say that everything is fine, but the impact if you take Zoom as a spectrum, on one end of the spectrum, where everything is doing amazingly well, because they are a good product market fit to hospitality industry on the other side. I would say ThoughtSpot and our approach to data analytics is closer to this than that. >> That's very interesting Sudheesh because, of course health care, I don't think they have time to do anything right now. I mean they're just so overwhelmed so that's obviously an interesting area that's going to continue to do well I would think. And they, the Financial Services guys, there's a lot of liquidity in the system and after 2009 the FinTech guys or the financial, the banks are doing quite well. They may squeeze you a little bit because they're smart negotiators, but as you say manufacturing with the supply chains, and in retail, look, if your ecommerce I mean Amazon hit, all-time highs today up whatever, 20% in the last two weeks. I mean just amazing what's happening, so it's really specific parts of those sectors will continue to do well, won't they? >> Absolutely, I think look, I saw this joke on Twitter, what's the number one cost? What is in fact (mic cuts out). Very soon people will say it is COVID and even businesses that have been tried to, sort of relatively, reluctant to really embrace the transformation that the customers have been asking for. This has become the biggest forcing function and that's actually a good thing because consumers are going to ultimately win because once you get groceries delivered to you into your front doors, it's going to be hard to sort of go back to standing in the line in Costco, when InstaCart can actually deliver it for you and you get used to it, so there are some transformation that is going to happen because of COVID. I don't think that society will go back from, but having said that, it's also not transformation for the sake of transformation. So speaking from our point of view on data analytics, I sort of believe that the last three to four years we have been sort of living in the Renaissance of enterprise data analytics and that's primarily because of three things. The first thing, every consumer is expecting, no matter how small or the big business, is to get to know them. You know, I don't want you to treat me like an average. I don't want you treat me like a number. Treat me like a person, which means understand me but personalize the services you are delivering and make sure that everything that you send me are relevant. If there's a marketing campaign or promo or customer support call, make sure it's relevant. The relevance and personalization. The second is, in return for that. customers are willing to give you all sorts of data. The privacy, be damned, so to a certain extent they are giving you location information, medical information,-- And the last part is with Cloud, the amount of data that you can collect and free plus in data warehouse like Snowflakes, like Redshift. It's been fundamentally shifted, so when you toggle them together the customers demand for better actors from the business, then amount of data that they're willing to give and collect to IOT and variables and then cloud-based technologies that allows you to process and store this means that analyzing this data and then delivering relevant actions to the consumers is no longer a nice to have and that I think is part of the reason why ThoughtSpot is finding sort of a tailwind, even with all this global headwind that we are all in. >> Well I think too, the innovation formula really has changed in our industry. I've said many times, it's not Moore's law anymore, it's the combination of data plus AI applied to that data and Cloud for scale and you guys are at the heart of that, so I want to talk about the market space a little bit. You look at BI and analytics, you look at the market. You know the Gartner Magic Quadrant and to your point, you know the companies on there are sort of chalk and cheese, to borrow a phrase from our friends across the pond. I mean, you're not power BI, you're not SaaS. I mean you're sort of search led. You're turning natural language into complex sequel queries. You're bringing in artificial intelligence and machine intelligence to really simplify and dramatically expand and put into the hands of business people analytics. So explain a little bit. First of all, do I have that sort of roughly right? And help us frame the market space how you think about it. >> Yeah I mean first of all, it is amazing that the diverse industry and technologies that you speak to and how you are able to grasp all of them and summarize them within a matter of seconds is a term to understand in itself. You and Stew, you both have that. You are absolutely right. So the way I think of this is that BI technologies have been around and it's played out really well. It played it's part. I mean if you look at it the way I think of BI, the most biggest BI tool is still Excel. People still want to use Excel and that is the number one BI tool ever. Then 10 years ago Tableau came in and made visualizations so delightful and a pic so to speak. That became the better way to consume complex data. Then Microsoft came in Power BI and then commoditized and the visualization to a point that, you know Tableau had to fight and it ended up selling to the Salesforce. We are not trying to play there because I think if you chase the idea of visualization it is going to be a long hard journey for ThoughtSpot to catch Tableau in visualization. That's not what we are trying to do. What we are trying to do is that you have a lot of data on one hand and you have a consumer sitting here and saying data doesn't mean you treated me well. What is my action that is this quote, very customized action quote. And our question is, how does beta turn into bespoke action inside a business? The insurance company is calling. You are calling an insurance company's customer support person. How do you know that the impact that you are getting from them is customized. But turning data into insight is an algorithmic process. That's what BI does, but that's like a few people in an organization can do that. Think of them like oil. They don't mix with water, that's the business people. The merchandising specialist who figures out which one should become site and what should be the price what should be ranking. That's the merchandiser. Their customer support person, that's a business user. They don't necessarily do Python or SQL, so what happens is in businesses you have the data people like water and the business people who touch the customer and interact with them every day, they're like the water. They don't mix. The idea of ThoughtSpot is very simple. We don't want this demarcation. We don't want this chasm. We want to break it so that every single person who interact with the customer should be able to have an interactive storytelling with the data, so that every decision that they make takes data into insight to knowledge to action, and that decision-making pipeline cannot be gut driven alone. It has to be enabled by data science and human experience coming together. So in our view, a well deployed data platform, decision-making platform, will enhance and augment human experience, as opposed to human experience says, this data says that, so you've got to pick one. That's an old model and that has been the approach with natural language based interactive access with the BI being done automated through AI in the backend, parts what we are able to put very complex data science in front of a 20 year experienced merchandising specialist in a large e-commerce website without learning Python, without learning people, without understanding data warehouse >> Right so, a couple of things I want to pick up on. I mean data is plentiful, insights aren't. That's really the takeaway from one of the things that you mentioned and this notion of storytelling is very, very important. I mean, all business people, they better be storytellers in some way shape or form and what better way to tell stories than with data, and so, because as you say it's no longer gut feel, it's not the answer anymore. So it seems to me Sudheesh, that you guys are transformative. The decision to focus on the global 2000 and really not, get washed up in the Excel, well I could just do it in Excel, or I'm going to go get Power BI, it's good enough. It's really, you're trying to be transformative and you've got a really disruptive model that we talked about before, search led and you're speaking to the system, or, typing in a way that's more natural, I wonder if you could comment on that and particularly that disruption of that transformation. >> Remember we are selling to global 2000. Almost all of them will have Tableau or one of these power BI or one of these solutions already, so you're not trying to go right and change that. What we have done is very clearly focus on use cases. We're transforming data into action. We will move the needle for the bit, but for example with the COVID situation going on, one of the most popular use cases for us is around working capital management. Now a CFO who's been in the business for 20 or 30 years is an expert and have the right kind of gut feeling about how her business is running when it comes to working capital. However, imagine now she can do 20 what-if scenarios in the next five seconds or next 10 minutes without going to the SPN 18, without going to the BI team. She can say what if we reduce hiring in Japan and instead we focus them on Singapore? What if we move 20% of marketing dollars from Germany to New York? What would be the impact of AR going up by 1% versus AP going down by 1%? She needs to now do complex scenarios, but without delay. It's sort of like how do I find a restaurant through Yelp versus going to the lobby to talk to a specialist who tells me the local restaurant. This interactive database storytelling for gut enhances the decision-making is very powerful. This is why, customer have, our largest customer has spent more than $26 million with ThougthSpot and this is not small. Our average is around close to 700k. This week for example, we are having a webinar where Verizon's SVP of Analytics specifically focused on finance. He's actually going to be on a webinar with our CFO. Our CFO Sophie, one of our financial specialists and Jeff Noto from Verizon are going to be on this talking about working capital management. What parts ThoughtSpot is a portion of, but they are sharing their experience of how do we manage, so that kind of varies, like extremely rigid focus on use cases, supply chain, modeling different things so that someone who knows Asia can really interact with the data to figure out if our supply chain from Bangladesh is going to be impacted because of COVID can we go to Ecuador? What will that look like? What will be the cost? What's the transportation cost, the fuel cost, Business has become so complex you don't have time to take five, six days to look at the report, no matter how pretty that report is, you have to make it efficient. You need to be able to make a lightning fast decision and something like COVID is really exposing all of that because day by day situation on the ground is changing. You know, employees are calling in sick. The virus is breaking out in one place, other place. If it's not, curves are going up and down so you cannot have any sort of delay between human experience and data signs and all of that comes down to your point telling visual stories so that the organization can rally behind the changes that they want to make. >> So these are mission-critical use cases. They are big problems that you're solving and attacking. As you said, you're not all things to all people. One of the things you're not is a data store, right? So you've got a partner, you've got to have an ecosystem, whether it's cloud databases, the cloud itself. I wonder if you could talk about some of the key partnerships that you're forming and how you're going to market and how that's affecting your business. >> Yeah, I mean one of the things that I've always believed in Silicon Valley is that companies die out of indigestion, not out of starvation. You try to do everything. That's how you end up dying and for us in the space of data, it's an extremely humbling space because there is so much to do, data prep, data warehousing, you know a mash-up of data, hosting of data, We have clearly decided that our ability is best spent on making artificial intelligence to work, interactive storytelling for business use and that's it. With that said, we needed a high velocity agility partner in the back end and Cloud based data warehouse have become a huge tailwind for us because our entire customer deployments are on Cloud, and the number one, obviously as you know from Frank's thing, the Snowflake has actually given, customers have seen Snowflakes plus ThoughtSpot is actually a good thing and we are exclusive in global 2000 and the Snowflake is climbing up there and we are able to build a good mutual partnership, but we are also seeing a really creative partnership all the way from product design to go to market and compensation alignment with Amazon on their push on Redshift as well. Google, we have announced partnership. There is a little bit of (mic cuts out) in the beginning we are getting, and just a couple of weeks ago we started working with Microsoft on their Azure Synapse algo. Now I would say that it's lagging, we still have work to do but Amazon and Snowflake are really pushing in terms of what customers want to see, and it completely aligns with our value popular, one plus one equals three. It really works well for our customers >> And Google is what, BigQuery plus Google Cloud, or what are you doing there? >> Yep so both Amazon and Google. Well, what we are doing at three different pieces. One if obviously the hosting of their cloud platforms. Second is data warehouse and enterprise data warehouse, which is Redshift and BigQuery. Third, we are also pretty good at taking machine learning algorithms that they have built for specific verticals. We're going to take those and then ingest them and deliver better. So for example if you are one of the largest supply companies in the world and you want to know what's the shipment rate from China and it shows and then the next thing you want to know is what the failure rate on this based on last behavior when you compressed a shipment rate, and that probably could use a bit of specific algorithms and you know Google and others have actually built a library of algorithms that can be injected into ThoughtSpot. We will simply answer the question of we may have gotten that algorithm from the Google library, sort of the business use is concerned. It doesn't really matter, so we have made all that invisible and we are able to deliver democratized access to Bespoke Insights to a business user, who are too sort of been afraid to deal with the sector data. >> Since you mentioned that you've got obviously several hundred million dollars in cash. You've raised over half a billion. You've talked previously about potential acquisitions, about IPO, are you considering acquisitions? M&A at this point in time? I mean there may be some deals out there. There's certainly some talent out there, but boy the market is changing so fast. I mean, it seems to, certain sectors are actually doing quite well. Will you consider M&A at this point? >> Yes, so I think IPO and M&A are two different-- IPO definitely, it will be foolish to say that this hasn't pushed our clients back a little bit because this is a huge event. I think there will be a correction across valuation and all of that. However, it is also important for us we use this opportunity to look at how we are investing our resources and investment for long-term versus the short-term and make sure that we are more focused and more tightening at the belt. We are doing that internally. Having said that, being a private company our valuation is, you know at least in theory, frozen, and then we have a pretty good cash position of close to $300 million, which means that it is absolutely an opportunity for us to seriously consider M&A. The important thing going back to my adage of, companies don't die out of starvation. It is critical to make sure that whatever we do, we do it with clarity. Are we doing it for talent? Are we doing it for tech? Or are we doing it for market? When you have a massive event like this, it is a poor idea to go after new market. It is important to go to our existing customers who are very large global 2000 firms and then identify problems that we cannot solve otherwise and then add technology to solve those problems, so technology acquisitions are absolutely something to consider, but it needs some more time to settle in because, the first two weeks were all people who were blindsided by this, then the last two weeks we have now gotten the mojo back in sales and mojo back in engineering, and now I think it is time for us to digest and prepare for these next two, three quarters of event and as part of that, companies like us who are fortunate enough to be on a good cash position, we'll absolutely look for interesting and good deals in the M&S space. >> Yeah, it makes sense, is tell and tech and, post IPO you can worry about Tam expansion. You'll be under pressure to do that as the CEO, but for now that's a very pragmatic approach. My last question is, there's some things when you think about, you say five weeks now you've been essentially on lockdown. You must, as many of us start thinking about wow, a lot of this work from home which came so fast people wouldn't even think about it earlier. You know, some companies mandated the beehive approach. Now everybody's open to that. There are certain things that are likely to remain permanent post COVID. Have you thought much about that? Generally and specifically how it might affect your business, the permanence of post COVID. Your thoughts. >> Yeah I've thought a lot about it. In fact, this morning I was speaking with our CRO Brian McCarthy about this. I think the change will happen, think of like an onion's inner most layer, I think the most, my hope is, that the biggest change will be in every one of us internally, as a what sort of a person am I and what does my position in the world means. The ego of each one of us that we carry because if this global event in one shot did not make you rethink your own sort of position in this big universe I think that's a mess. So the first thing has to be about being a better person. The second thing is, I had this two, three days of fever which was negative for COVID but I isolated myself, but that gave me sort of an idea of dipping in the dark room where I'm hoping my family won't get infected and you know my parents are in India so I sort of also realized that what is really important for you in life and how much family should mean to you, so that goes to the first, yourself second, your relationship with family, but having said that, the third thing when it comes to business building is also the importance for building with quality people, because when things go wrong it is so critical to have people who believe in the purpose of what you are trying to build. People with good faith and unshakable faith, personal faith and unshakable faith in the purpose of the company and most importantly you mentioned something which is the story telling. People, leaders who can absolutely communicate with clarity and certainty. It becomes the most important thing to lead an organization. I mean, you are a small business owner. You know we are in a small company with around 500 people. There is nothing like sitting at home waiting to see how the company is doing over email if you're a friend line engineer or a seller. Communication becomes so critical, so having the trust and the respect of organization and have the ability to clearly and transparently communicate is the most important thing for the company and over communicating due to the time of crisis. These things are so useful even after this crisis is over. Obviously from a technology point of view, you know people have been speaking a lot about working remotely and technology changes, security, those things will happen but I think if these three things were to happen in that order. Be a better person, be a better family member and be a better leader, I think the world will be better off and the last thing I'll also tell you, that you know in Silicon Valley sometimes we have this disregard for arts and literature and fight over science. I hope that goes away, because I can't imagine living without books, without movies, without Netflix and everything. Art makes yourself creative and enriches our lives. You know, sports is no longer there on TV and the fact that people are able to immerse their imagination in books and fiction and watch TV. That also reminds you how important it is to have a good balance between arts and science in this world, so I have a long list of things that I hope we as a people and as a society will get better. >> Yeah, a lot more game playing in our household and it's good to reconnect in that regard. Well Sudheesh, you've always been a very clear thinker and you're in a great spot and an awesome leader. Thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. It was really great to see you again. All the best to you, your family and the broader community in your area. >> Dave, you've been very kind with this. Thank you so much, I wish you the same and hopefully we'll get to see face-to-face in the near future. Thanks a lot. >> I hope so, thank you. All right and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Nice, France, It's theCUBE, covering .Next Conference 2017 Europe brought to you by Nutanix. Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching SiliconANGLE Media's production of The Cube here inside the Acropolis Conference Center in Nice, France. Beautiful location, happy to welcome back to the program off the keynote stage this morning, Sudheesh Nair, President with Nutanix, and a first-time guest, someone I've gotten to know through the industry, Dan McConnell, Vice-President of the CPSD group inside DELL EMC. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. >> Dan: Thanks for having us. Sudheesh needs no introduction, but Dan, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, your role inside of DELL EMC. Sure, I guess, I've been at DELL for about, I don't know, 18 years, in various forms, engineering, CTO, product management. Nowadays I've got a collection of the CPSD businesses. Chad will refer to it as the horizontal businesses but basically all the things that are multi-hypervisor in nature. XC series, clearly one of those products, one of the long relationships we've had with Nutanix, very successful. Matter of fact, coming off Q2 was our strongest quarter ever. We're still closing Q3 so I can't talk about that, but safe to say these last six months will be six months of the strongest we've had with Nutanix and the XC series. I've got a collection of products from Block to FlexTech C Series. Yeah, so you come from what was the DELL side of DELL EMC, in through, of course, the DELL VMware relationship, been a strong one, driven a lot of joint revenue for the companies, yeah. Yep, absolutely, it's been great. Been good getting to know Sudheesh over the years. It's been multiple years at this point. >> Sudheesh: Almost four years now. But it's been a great relationship. Sudheesh, please. Yeah, first of all, thank you for having us. It's always nice to see you. And I still am amazed by all this equipment and how professional you are when it comes to doing these sort of things. It's very nice to be here with Dan. He's one of the nicest guys in the company and I'm not just saying because he's sitting here. A very good human being, it's always been a pleasure. It's almost four years we've been working together. Sudheesh, our audience loves when, they're looking forward to this session because, come on, DELL EMC, Nutanix, wait, they're friends, no they're competitors. No, yeah, they're, you know, it's a mix together. They say it's like the macaroons. It's, a couple of pieces go together, some of the flavors you like, some maybe you don't as much. Probably a bad analogy. Bring us up to speed as to kind of the Dell relationship. You know, how important is it to Nutanix? I know it's something that I talk to customers that are running Dell EMC and say, "Does it concern you at all?" And it is something that at least is on the radar for most customers. I'll try to give a shorter answer. It's a long answer question. The first thing is, this is a relationship that is built to last. I know that it is not an easy relationship, but let me also be honest about, look inside the industry and tell me a single relationship that is absolutely black and white. I mean, it's not that long ago when in one of the VMworlds, I don't remember who exactly, but someone from VMware actually said, "We're not going to lose to a bookseller," right? And then in the last-- >> Stu: Yeah, he's a VC now, so doing quite well for himself. Yeah, he's a great guy, it was his call, yeah. Again, it's a point in time of opinion, and I would do the same thing because we all compete with our heart and mind. It's not about that point. The fact that the company evolved, and in the last VMworld I think the CEOs of both AWS and VMware were hugging it out. Does that mean they've built a relationship that will not have conflicts? Absolutely not. I fundamentally don't think that the relationships in IT industry specifically will no longer be black and white, and it will always be shades of gray. The question is, should we be focused on customers who wants us to stop bickering and deliver what's right for them, and continue to focus on the overlaps of interest as opposed to focus on the conflicts that will arise. Absolutely well said. It's clear, and Dell's always been focused on a strategy of customer choice and flexibility. One of our key strengths at DELL EMC now is the portfolio, the fact that we've got multiple offers, the fact that it's a focus on the customer, what the customer wants, giving them flexibility as opposed to always trying to pigeonhole a specific product. It's interesting because I've been watching since the first days of the relationship. Dell's goal is to be leader in infrastructure. Nutanix's goal, be an iconic software company. Well, you're not going to be a server manufacturer, there's room there. So, Dan, why is Nutanix best on Dell? That's a great question. So one, the long relationship, right? So, we actually have teams of people who focus on integrating the platform and the software. There's a software stack in there, we call Power Tools internally that, long story short, manages all of the firmware stacks as well as, essentially lifecycle management of the hardware up underneath Nutanix. So, one piece is the hardware integration. The second piece, which we talked about a year ago at .Next, that we would be focused on integrating the broader Dell EMC portfolio, namely data protection. So, you'll see in upcoming weeks, we've already announced it formally, it gets turned on here in a few weeks, tight integration of Data Domain and Avamar with the XC series. Not just to reference architecture, but actual integration into the management. So, full lifecycle integration of data protection leveraging Data Domain, Avamar, tightly integrated into XC series, keeping that focus of ease of use, lifecycle management not only around the infrastructure, but also from data protection. So, hardware integration as well as tight integration of other pieces of the ecosystem. One other piece there, not to take too long, but not only data protection but we're also leveraging our relationship with Microsoft, and you'll see us integrate XC series into Azure with things like OMS, with our Log Analytics solution, so building out that ecosystem around the infrastructure. Yeah, Sudheesh, the Microsoft relationship's an interesting one, of course. You know, Dell, very long, strong relationship. I remember Satya Nadella up onstage with Michael Dell at Dell World years ago. It seems like a good opportunity for even deeper partnership. I think it's not just Microsoft. I think Dell EMC is the single largest vendor in this space and ecosystem, for example Pivotal. The innovative things that Pivotal is doing, Nutanix has an opportunity to partner with that because of the ecosystem. The global support, the global reach that Dell has, we have access to that. Customers get choice. Pretty much every customer who's buying anything in this industry probably have a contract with Dell. We have access to that. So, it requires a level of maturity for the business to sort of turn off the noise and listen to the music. We have been able to do that, and I know that people would love to see a fight, and yes, sometimes we have friction, and I think that is healthy. But by and large both companies have figured out the most important thing is to focus on customers, do right by them. So, Sudheesh, I think it would be fair to say that both companies have a sales culture that many outside call a bit aggressive. And especially where it's been interesting and sometimes challenging to watch is when it hits the channel. So, I know a number of channel providers, love Dell, love Nutanix, and have felt pressure sometimes from the Dell side to move to some of the other products, many have stuck. How do you balance that to kind of keep the channel happy, keep them working on that? You're absolutely right. I think both companies have a sales-driven culture, no question about it. And Nutanix, even though we are a younger company, much smaller in size, I don't think our aspirations and the fighting spirit is any less. In fact, in some cases it might even be out there. However, what we have done is we always focused on partners as part of the customer in the same ecosystem. That is, do right by the customer, do right by the partner. And I think that applies to both companies. What we have done early on is actually put together some guard rails between companies, how do we approach when those sort of conflicts arises, number one. Number two, we put together processes in the field when it comes to dual registration which is somewhat convoluted on the back end, but extremely delightful on the front end. Now, that doesn't mean there won't be friction. What we've done is we made sure that number one, the frictions are exceptions, not an example always, and second, when it comes up, we talk. So, he's on my WhatsApp. When something really blows up he will say, "Sudheesh, what's going on?" It's less and less now because our people have actually done a pretty good job of managing it. But ultimately, the one thing that'll continue to sustain and grow this relationship would be trust and communication. In the last four years, we know the people. We have built the communication, we speak the language, and because of that we are able to overcome all those problems. Yeah, the key is when those arise, getting the right people involved and ultimately doing right by the customer. There's always going to be conflict, this, that in the field. It's getting the right people involved early managing it and making sure we're putting customers first, not getting them in the middle of it. >> Sudheesh: Absolutely. Alright, so Dan, one of the things we heard from Nutanix today and I've been hearing all week, Intel Skylake. You've got 14 Gs available. Since it's not announced yet as the date, what kind of guidance can you give, and how's that rollout going to look for customers? Especially, I love your viewpoint as you know the server world forever, and you've got a broad portfolio. How does customer adoption across the various buying modes happen? I'll dance around this a bit and say stay tuned, very soon you'll hear some announcement around the 14th Generation PowerEdge. >> Stu: If you're watching the replay, call your rep now, it might be ready. Exactly right, so yes, stay tuned, very, very soon. We've already talked about it back at Dell EMC World. You can expect us to fully embrace the 14th Generation PowerEdge. We've already having some conversations with folks in the field. Obviously, we've got the PowerEdge line out there already. It's actually, the adoption of 14 G has been very, very strong, so we expect that to pick up here on the XC series very shortly. So, like I said, stay tuned. I have to dance around a little bit, but it'll be very, very soon. But one point, it's not available any later on the XC than it is on the other hyperconverged offerings that you have, correct? Correct. Yeah, so that's, I think, kind of the main thing. But that also tells you that we don't just take the same server and ship it out. We actually go through a different process to make sure that this can actually run mission critical applications. That's part of the problem as well, we have to do this right. Take a lot of time hardening that, what we would call standard server, so that's what's in process now, and almost done. I'd like to give you both a last word. Talk about customers, talk about anything we should be looking at down the road from the partnership. Dan, we'll start with you. Sure, you'll see continued, what I'll say tight integration, focus on the ecosystem. I think big steps with data protection integration, focus on Microsoft. You'll see more integration in that vein filling out that overall ecosystem. Partnership continues to be strong. I think it's a very good combination of software, hardware, and ecosystem. So, on the Dell EMC side you'll see us bring that ecosystem focus, and continue working with these guys. Obvious integrations on the hardware side with some exciting technologies like NVNE and RDMA. So, we'll continue to leverage the hardware technology to promote HCI and to drive HCI, make it stronger, and continue to focus on the overall ecosystem. So, we're excited for the relationship, and I'll hand it over to Sudheesh. Yeah, I think, see Nutanix, we always were a software company. But taking a product like this without the help of an appliance form factor would not be feasible, because any problem happened, it would be our problems. But now that we have the last five years behind us, we know how to make it work. What sort of products do we need to build to support the installation process, the upgrade process, lifecycle management, all of those things are done. Now starting next year, you'll see Nutanix making a conscious decision to become a truly software company, without the reliance of being, pushing through hardware. Our sales organization will be retooled and restructured to become, and incentivized to focus more and more on software, and less and less on appliances, which will bring companies like Dell EMC and Nutanix closer, because they have the footprint. Some of the conflicts used to arise basically because we had our own appliances as well. And once the sales organization is differently incentivized, you will see the trust building faster between the resellers and the companies. So, I am very optimistic because of not just the technology vision. Nutanix with hyperconverged, and the Calm and Xi, and everything else that we laid out. We know that for us, hyperconverged is just the foundation, and the support for everything that we're building. That fully aligns with Dell EMC's aspirations on how Nutanix should proceed. So, we're pretty excited, but always cautious about what could go wrong, focused on those things. As long as we talk and communicate, and we focus on customers and partners, I am pretty confident on the future. Sudheesh Nair, Dan McConnell, thank you so much for catching up. Welcome to The Cube alumni. Much appreciated. He's a pro already. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix .Next in Nice, France. I'm Stu Miniman, you're watching The Cube. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Washington, DC, it's the Cube covering .NEXT Conference, brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to NEXTConf everybody. This is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm with Stu Miniman. This is the president's segment. Sudheesh Nair is back. Good to see you again, Sudheesh, the president of Nutanix. And Captain Canada himself, Chad Sakac. >> Dave. >> Cube alum, good friend. >> Dave, it's good to see you. >> Good to see you again. Stu. Hey everybody, most important thing, great, you know, .NEXTConf, but look, Canada Day, July 1st, is right around the corner. So remember, everybody, go have some poutine, drink some beers and celebrate. Then there's this July 4th thing that is apparently right around that. >> Yeah, well, it's important to us, 'cause we've ended an eight-week sprint of the Cube, so. >> Isn't Chad wearing red, white and blue? I think he's, uh ... >> I actually did that on purpose. You noticed! >> Here in DC, nice job. >> I figured when in DC, you know, celebrate Americana. >> Why not? Well, there's a lot of celebration going on here. You guys have been celebrating several years now. What is it? Two and a half years of ... >> With Dell, yes. With Chad it's relatively new, so ... (all laughing) >> It's actually been about three years, and it's been a ridiculously successful partnership. You know, I think ... >> I would say face-meltingly successful, but ... >> Yeah, you know what? I agree. >> Okay, so coming into this role, did you have misconceptions about Nutanix, or was that just marketing, when you were kind of ... >> No. Nutanix basically created the HCI category. They've been at it now for seven and change years. You know, great technology, very happy customers. I'd say out of the 6,200 or so Nutanix customers, roughly around 2,500, 2,700 are XC customers, so I've gotten to know them really well. They tell me pretty clearly what they like about Nutanix and what they like about XC. >> All right, so Chad, I'm looking at my notes here, and there was a guy Chad Sakac who said, "Niche corner case for VDI only," you know, that was Nutanix. >> Love it. >> You know, you're singing a little bit of a different story than we might've heard a couple of years ago. >> You know, I would say that it's important to acknowledge when you're wrong, Stu. You know, and I think that HCI in general has moved absolutely out of any corner case segment whatsoever. I met with a customer this morning that is basically a hospital that is running the bulk of all of their mission-critical customer healthcare records, packs, all on XC. And again, you know, I don't want to get us in trouble here at the .NEXT Conference, but we have an HCI portfolio, we see customers deploying HCI for every workload under the sun at this point. And frankly, I've said it publicly now, firmly and as clearly as I can, SDS and HCI models are ready for the majority of x86 workloads. That's not just my opinion, it's the company, it's Dell Technologies' point of view overall. >> You know, Joe Tucci was the master of sort of building an ecosystem with quasi-competitors, coop-etition, whatever you want to call it, and certainly the Dell/EMC relationship of many years ago was epic, one of the, probably the most successful storage relationship ever. So and, Sudheesh, you get a lot of concerns of Wall Street, when's this going to end? You guys used to get that all the time with Cisco and VC, and yet you continue to ... >> Still do. >> Yup. >> Chad: Still do. >> Valid questions, you know, it's the obvious place for analysts, snarky analysts to go. But in retrospect ... >> Chad: Is there such a thing as a non-snarky analyst? >> There're a couple, there're a couple out there. >> They're sitting here, right here. (Chad laughs) >> It is, getting paid ... >> After the comments that I've already gotten! >> It's getting paid to be snarky. >> That's what's fantastic, by the way. That's what's like watching Charlie Rose and Bill Clinton. Hard but smooth. >> So, if I go back into history, though ... I wish Michael were here, and I'll ask Michael, I know you watch, I'll you next time I see you. I wonder if he had to do it all over again, if he knew then what he knew now, if he would've just said, "You know what? "I'm going to do better just staying with the EMC partnership, "instead of going out and buying Equallogic or Compellent, "and we would've done better for customers, "might've made more money." I wonder if you've learned anything from that experience. I mean, you were biased, 'cause you were on the EMC side of that, obviously you didn't want to see Dell end that relationship, but are there similarities here? >> You know, I think that there's similarities, but there's a notable difference. When the Dell/EMC merger occurred, and the first time I came out to visit headquarters, I mean, lots of discussions with Sudheesh and with Dheeraj. There's a core thing here that's important to understand. The market is not in a zero-sum game. So if, if there's 6,200 Nutanix customers, 2,500 XC customers, roughly 3,000 VX Real customers, roughly 8,000 VSAN customers, you know how many VNX customers there are? 300,000. Do you know how many power-edge servers there are out there? 27 million. We're on the earliest days of the software-defined and HCI journey, and frankly, that's just the first step towards building hybrid clouds on-prem and off-prem that bridge one another, which has been a big part of the announcements from this week. >> Yeah, look, I think the first part of the question you asked, you got to be honest that, you know, when you flip sometimes TV channels, let's say you come across National Geographic, right? And then there's a cheetah chasing a deer. You stop, you want to watch. You know what's going to happen, the cheetah's going to eat the deer, one way or other, that's going to happen. You know it, but you want to watch it. The way we think of our industry, status quo is the cheetah. The deer is all of us, the moment you stop innovating. That is particularly true for companies like ours, young companies. The partnership that we have is not built on anything but the fact that we are adding more value for customers than what we would individually do. That's it. The sum of the parts of this should be higher than the individual parts, right? So what we have learned, for example, last quarter, you're absolutely right, financial analysts, they'll always ask us about the Dell EMC overhang. Last quarter, for example, we for the first time publicly talked about the fact that Dell EMC business was around eight to nine percent of our overall revenue. And it is not because that didn't grow. It is growing, but the overall business we are able to keep growing. Our destiny's in our hands, and it comes down to couple of things6: our ability to really accelerate innovation, because as a younger company, more agile, we are expected to do more, and you saw this morning. Number two, make sure that we are playing fair. There are rules of engagement that we are, because we know that they have tremendous amount of portfolio, and some of them will overlap, and that's okay. But you have to clearly define the rules of engagements, and be very fair in how we treat the partner. And if you do those two things right, we know that this is a relationship that'll last long time. >> And just a quick little add, I mean, the things that we bring is extending the platform's scale and reach. There's no question that you're a younger company, there's no question that we're a larger company. The number of customers that say, "We want the better together thing," and we give them that choice, it's very important for us to do that, but also add value. So whether it's integrating data protection, whether it's what we've done around running Cloud Foundry on top of XC. Home Depot talked about it. >> Classic example, yeah. >> It's a great example, where they want this, that, all together. Now I can't emphasize enough that what we've been trying to emphasize is be transparent, be consistent about those rules of engagement, and telling our customers, you know, driving that choice and giving them that benefit is something that we have to sustain. >> And it's also important to understand that you know, if you spent this morning watching the keynote, you clearly saw that we did not talk about hyperconverged. What we talked about were two things. One is pushing that cloud intelligence to the edge, and then building a hyper-cloud experience that is totally transparent. And the second thing was about building a multi-cloud environment through Calm. We did not talk about hyperconverged. Those things are not built on a platform that is not built for ... Those things are built on a platform that is ready for web-scale architecture. So the foundation that we have built in the last seven years is on which we are building, and as long as we continue to add value like that, and partner, for example, on PCF, you know, Pivotal Cloud Foundry, that's a classic example, a Home Depot example, right? They need that same experience that they're getting from Edibus. And Edibus is not just doing IAAS. They're doing PAAS, they're doing the entire thing. To do that, there is no shame in figuring out what we do well, what we don't do well, understand their strengths and weakness, come together, and deliver something that is better for customers. >> Sudheesh, I'm curious, actually, 'cause Home Depot is a, you know, lighthouse account for Pivotal, on Google Cloud platform. Talking to them about it for the last six months. How does that fit in? We know that the Dell family is a multi-function, so I'm curious to want to hear the Nutanix piece of how that fits in. >> Look, I think the Google thing is a relatively new thing for us. We are expecting two different areas that we are going to partner with them. >> No, no, but Home Depot specifically, is that related? >> No. >> Because they're a big GCP customer, so maybe Chad needs to fill it in. >> This specific project is all on Exceed with PCS. >> The thing that I think is fascinating, and to watchers, I would say, for the intellectually curious that are willing to double-click and go a little bit further, it's a little more of a complex, nuanced story, but everyone's looking for a soundbite, whether it's in politics, as we're here in DC, or whether it's in news, or whatever. Home Depot, like a ton of customers, is using GCP. They're using XC, they're using vSphere, they're using NSX, they're using PCF. It's not like there's some singular thing. Another fascinating example is, I talked to a customer who's a fantastic ScaleIO, VxRack FLEX customer, vSphere, enormous scale and scope, and when I asked them, they want a hybrid cloud to this point. HCI is just a foundation for hybrid cloud use. When I asked them, like, what are their hybrid cloud targets, they're like, "AWS, but we use GCP because we depend on TensorFlow." It is, we live in a world which you need to expand your mind and not naturally create this, like, binary A/B thing. >> Stu: It's a multi-cloud world, Chad. >> It's a multi-stacked, multi-cloud, multi-use case world. >> An inter-genius mess in IT that we've been dealing with. >> So another thing that analysts do a lot is give unsolicited advice. (Chad laughs) So I want to do that and maybe get your reaction. So, Amazon's operating profits are roughly almost double what EMC's were, Amazon Web Services, when EMC was a public company. Massive change and disruptive force in our industry. And frankly, if it weren't for AWS, we wouldn't be where we are today as fast as we were, so I see your joint challenge as fulfilling the vision of what we call true private cloud. Substantially mimicking the cloud experience on-prem. And you're behind, and you know you're behind at that, because Amazon's by definition in the lead. So your challenge as we see it is to create that experience and create that automation and allow people to shift their labor costs to the fun stuff. >> By the way, I agree, and I accept that advice. You can answer for you, but I'll tell you, we've been trying to ... So we started with the first enterprise hybrid cloud efforts almost three and a half years ago, and they're enormous, and at the time we said, "And deploy it on anything you want." And you know what? We had very limited success with that. And the reason we had limited success wasn't because we didn't get the customer going, "Yes, I want to have a hybrid cloud, "where I can bridge and connect to "multiple different public cloud targets." That idea, dead right. The idea of you can build it any way you want? Wrong. Then we said, "Okay, you know what? "CI is a simplification." What we realized is that life cycling CI stacks along with a CMP layer, whether it's inside an integrated thing, or whether it's directly adjacent, still too complex. The latest is basically all of our hybrid cloud, whether it's destined towards enterprise IAAS or PAAS on prem, runs on HCI. When? Always. Because HCI is fundamentally orders of magnitude easier to symph, to deploy, to scale, to version, etc., etc. What I've been seeing over the last 24 hours about basically the Calm acquisition becoming part of Acropolis, is the example where Nutanix is taking it, where they're trying to build it into the Calm and Acropolis stack. I think that's a common vision between the two companies. >> What you will hear from HP or Cisco or EMC or Nutanix, the picture isn't going to change much, because we all know what the blueprint looks like. I think the real question is, how do you get there? How you do that is where the difference is going to be, and the advantage we have is that because we built every stack with that clean architecture in mind, the North Star being, we have to deliver a fully-automatable stack, we have an added advantage of building every step connect naturally to the next step. So for example, our metadata structure, our storage fabric, our virtualization fabric, AHV, our automation fabric on Calm, and how we are introducing Xi, that's a hybrid cloud service, it is all controlled from Prism. And that Prism itself and Prism Central are fully distributed. So that ability to deploy this at scale across multiple continents and manage it, that is very similar to how Amazon ... The reason why Amazon can deliver millisecond billing on Lambda stack is not because they are taking ten different products. They have technology that is built to deliver that level of granularity. >> So again, I agree, but there's an element that I disagree. Calm was an acquisition. Calm was an acquisition of people and talent to basically extend up into the IAAS, chargeback, billing, self-service portal domain. No disrespect of the decision, technology, architecture. You've done, obviously, great progress that you've shown to the market the last two days about how you're integrating that into your stack. We've been at this now for four years, and we've looked at, how do we need to keep evolving our own Dell Technologies stacks? Again, it's not an either/or. So for example, we do multi-site PCF deployments directly on top of a HCI target that has total life cycle, completely distributed stack, and the Pivotal/Google work around Kubernetes coming as part of Pivotal, which echoes a lot of the Kubernetes becoming part of your stack as well. Kubo highlights what we're all trying to do towards that target. Again, I think that the natural tendency because people like to see car races to watch for crashes, cheetahs chasing lions ... >> Or something like that. >> I think we're all striving to do what you said. The customer demand for simple-to-operate, simple-to-deploy, simple-to-scale, turnkey IAAS, PAAS, and even SAAS stacks that're a hybrid deployment model, that is a fact. How customers need to evaluate all the choices in the marketplace is again, who does it best? >> And if you don't, you're the deer, is your point. >> Chad: You're the lion or the deer. >> I wish we had more time, guys. I'll give you both the last word. Chad, you're everywhere this week, and everywhere every week, but final thoughts. >> Final thoughts, I mean, customers can know that we're committed to customer choice, we're committed to this partnership. The number of customers in revenue continues to grow. Our point of view is that we've got a portfolio approach, but no one should be confused about what that means. That means that we're committed to the partnership. Customers, I've talked to a lot of them here, they're happy. Never punch your customer in the face, and never punch yourself in the face. Simple strategy from Chad Sakac. >> Sudheesh, put a capstone on it. >> My point's very simple. I think this is a partnership that is working. The company's run by really smart people. I don't think we are interested in doing anything that is going to make our customers' decision a wrong one for them. And we are committed, we are committed to innovate, and are committed a service to join customers together. Thank you. >> Guys, you know, you guys make this job fun. Thank you so much for coming on the Cube. Really appreciate it. >> It's our pleasure, guys. Remember, Happy Canada Day! >> All right, July 1st. Love it. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Voiceover: Live, from Washington, DC. It's the Cube covering .NEXT Conference. (upbeat music) Brought to you by Nutanix. >> We're back at Nutanix .NEXT, everybody. This is the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. This is day two of our wall-to-wall coverage of .NEXT Conf. Kirk Skaugen is here, he's the president of the Lenovo Data Center Infrastructure Group. Sudheesh Nair is the president of Nutanix. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. I'm Dave Vellante, this is Stu Miniman. We're part of the nerd herd here at the conference. So Kirk, let's start with you. We've been talking to Nutanix all week. You guys got the great booth, we've been looking at your booth all week. Transform, last week you guys had a big conference. Lenovo, obviously undergoing major transformations, as are your customers and your partners. Give us the update, how's it going? >> Well, it was a big event for us. We've been working for about two and a half years since the acquisition, the IBM X-Series team. So we launched basically our biggest data center portfolio in history, about 14 new servers, seven new storage boxes, five new network machines, and, probably more importantly to our relationship, we announced two big new brands. So Think System is kind of for the traditional infrastructure and then Think Agile, and our appliances with Nutanix for hyper-converge infrastructure. >> You guys have been talking to analysts and your community about what I call choice. You know, you've got a lot of different choices of partners, of even now processor types, hyper-visors, etc. So talk about how that's important to your partnership strategy, generally and specifically unpack some of the Lenovo specifics. >> I think it is important to have a point of view, when you're talking to customers nowadays. The problem is: is the point of view about your own company's thought process, Wall Street expectations or the point of view's doing by what is right for the customer. Take it for example, an SSD, a commodity SSD from Samsung or Toshiba. If you take that SSD and put it inside a Solar and try to sell it, you probably will get X dollars for it. That same SSD, if you put it inside a high-end SAN, you can probably take like 10X more that, right? Where do you you are-- >> Those were the days. (laughing) >> The thing is where do you think you will be going first? What will you be trying to sell first? The thing I like about Lenovo is that they're made to be efficient. That it is going to be a software defined world. But hardware does matter, the library matters, support matters and along with Lenovo, we are able to go to customers and completely re-transform, you know sort of change their architecture without being caged by any sort of Wall Street expectation that goes counter to what is right for customers. >> Kirk, I know there are many milestones you talked about at Lenovo Transform. I think if I remember it, one of them was the 20 millionth x86 server is going to be shipping sometime in the next couple weeks. >> That's right. >> To think Agile line to kind of look at software defined, how does Nutanix fit into that? You've been OEM-ing them since before you went into this branding so tell us how that came together to the new line. >> So I think we're celebrating this year 25 years an x86 servers and so you're right, we are looking at a software defined world and what I constantly hear is that Lenovo is getting pulled in because we don't have a legacy infrastructure of a big SAN business or a big router business, so we're kind of unencumbered by that but we're shipping our 20 millionth x86 server in July, next month. But with Nutanix, what we're basically doing is we're tightly integrating our management software with their prism software, we're looking at integrating some of the network topology work now with innovation because rather than kind of a legacy network that people are used to now, well we moved to a hyper-converge infrastructure, some of those pain points move onto networking but we've been innovating together now for almost two years and I think we're crossing almost 300 customer deployments now, almost 200% growth since we've started. At least Lenovo's goal is we're going to be Nutanix's largest growing OEM partner this year. >> So talk more about that innovation strategy because, you know, the general consensus is well, it's x86, they're all the same. How do you guys differentiate from an innovation standpoint? >> Well, what we talked about at Transform is our legacy now is we're number one in customer satisfaction in Lenovo on x86 systems in actually 21-22 categories. And that's a third party survey that's done across like 700 customers in 20 countries. Number one in reliability. So we're building off of this infrastructure, off of a really strong customer base. What we're trying to do on Think Agile is completely redefine the customer experience. From the way you configure the system, we can now do configure to order in three weeks. Which we think is about half of what anyone else in the industry can do relative to our competitors. And then we're innovating down the the manageability layer, the networking stack, all of those pieces to really build the best solutions together. >> Sudheesh, there's an interesting two differing things if I look at Lenovo and your partnership. Number one is Kirk says they don't have any legacy, but one of the reasons you're in OEM with them is because they do have history, they've got brand, they've got channel, how do those come together in the partnership? >> So remember, I think before XEI, servers used to be a stateless machine, being they would move the VM's back and forth because the data lives somewhere else in the storage system. So what you expect out of the server, when it comes to reliability and serviceability are very different. What we did with XEI when we came on for the first time, we took the liable storage piece, sharded into small segments and move them inside the servers. All of a sudden, the library of the server has become exponentially more important. Affordability, serviceability, how you do things like form guard management, all those things become important now because your entire core banking application is running inside a bunch of servers, there is no SAN sitting behind protecting all of this. One of the reasons why Lenovo's ex-clarity project is one of the first apps on our app store is because we want to make sure that customers have a fully integrated souped enough experience of not just managing the product but also experiencing the day one and day two. Upgrades, replacements, failure replacement, all of those things. So between our relationship with Lenovo's hardware and engineering, plus the support, we are able to deliver a one plus one equals three experience for our customers. >> So Sudheesh, I heard almost 300 customers you're at. Could you give us a little bit of kind of either verticals or geography that you're being successful? >> What we've seen with Lenovo that is a little different from the rest of the business that we do is that majority of the business is coming from large customers and second, I would say financial sectors were the biggest initial moment it seem to be. And the repeat business is following the same pattern that the customers who buy are coming back and buying again. In fact, one of the largest financial institutions in the country, New York, bought last quarter a decent size, a seven figure plus deal, and they'll probably come back and buy again this quarter. So that pick-up is happening really fast and customers are happy with the overall experience. And it's also about the courting process, the shipping process that he talked about, these are all simple things but these are extremely important in the customer buying experience. >> I think from our perspective, we operate in over 160 countries, a lot of people don't realize we have over 10,000 support specialists that call with more than a 90% customer sat rating. So when we're bringing in Think Agile, what we're bundling now with Think Agile and the Nutanix appliances is premiere customer support so you don't even go to an automated system, you go directly to a local language speaking person on the phone immediately and you get one vendor to support you across your server, your storage, your networking in the whole configuration. That has gotten customers like for us, Jiffy Lube, Holloway, Beam Suntory who's the third largest premium spirits vendor in the world, one of the largest Japanese auto-manufacturers, I mean, I think it's been across all verticals that we've seen success together. >> I was in Asia last week, two weeks ago, and the business there is tremendously picking up speed. It goes through the story, you know, they have local language support, local marketing, local channel enablement, those things matter significantly. Lenovo's very strong in all those areas. >> We live in a world that's data driven. Data is the new oil. You've got to montage your data. You guys have big volumes, you have a lot of data. In relation to partnerships, in this day and age, what role does the data play? Is there an integration of data, is there a way to get more value, how are you getting more value out of the data that you share with your customers? >> I started maybe working China as well in one of the areas, this is an extremely important question, don't think of this as a hardware and infrastructure software play, this is about what customers want. In one area, for example, SAP. One of the largest SAP's partner is Lenovo and by partnering with Lenovo, we are now able to deliver, in fact, there is a specific product CD's that we've built for Lenovo HANA customers called Bridge to HANA where we deliver certified HANA platform on Lenovo along with the Nutanix software as a prediction and testing and wiring IB's next to that. By lapping the Lenovo SAP expertise, the hardware expertise, and the Nutanix's infrastructure expertise, the customers can have a single one-stop shop for analytics, ERT, and everything. Those kind of experiences are what customers are looking for. >> I think one of the reasons people are coming to Lenovo is we're not trying to compete with them necessarily far up the stack like we would think some of our competitors are doing. But if you look at SAP, we're excited because we've had a relationship in software defined with SAP since probably eight years ago. We were actually blazing the trail, I think, with them on software defined and we got rid of the legacy SAN out of that solution probably in 2010, started eliminating some of the costs associated with that. And now we're proud that SAP runs Lenovo, and Lenovo runs SAP. We're starting to pull some big customers together like V-Grass which is one of the largest, fastest growing clothing manufacturers in China, but we're not trying to like hoard the data and use the data, or compete with our customers on data. >> Alright, guys, we're out of time. But just to sort of last questions relates to the future. Where do you guys want to take this? A couple years down the road, where are we going to see this partnership, what's your shared vision? >> You saw today, we moved from that hyper-converge to a multi-cloud world. A multi-cloud world where we are redefining what hybrid cloud really means. There's a lot of work to be done to bring applications, infrastructure, and uses togethers. And partners like Lenovo is how we are going to get there. >> Yeah, absolutely, I think this is just the beginning. We're looking to a transposable world, hyper-convergence is one path along the way. We've been participating in public cloud and now the world is moving into hybrid cloud. We've got great partnerships I think we'll see strong growth with both companies for the next few years. >> Can't do it alone. Kirk and Sudheesh, thanks very much for coming to the Cube, I really appreciate it. >> Thanks so much. >> You're welcome. Keep right there, buddy, Stu and I will be back with our next guest right after this short break. We're live from Nutanix .NEXT, we'll be right back. (upbeat music)