>>The cube presents, Coon and cloud native con Europe 22, brought to you by the cloud native computing foundation. >>Welcome to Melissa Spain. And we're at cuon cloud native con Europe, 2022. I'm Keith Townsend. And my co-host en Rico senior Etti en Rico's really proud of me. I've called him en Rico and said IK, every session, senior it analyst giga, O we're talking to fantastic builders at Cuban cloud native con about the projects and the efforts en Rico up to this point, it's been all about provisioning insecurity. What, what conversation have we been missing? >>Well, I mean, I, I think, I think that, uh, uh, we passed the point of having the conversation of deployment of provisioning. You know, everybody's very skilled, actually everything is done at day two. They are discovering that, well, there is a security problem. There is an observability problem. And in fact, we are meeting with a lot of people and there are a lot of conversation with people really needing to understand what is happening. I mean, in their classroom, what, why it is happening and all the, the questions that come with it. I mean, and, uh, the more I talk with, uh, people in the, in the show floor here, or even in the, you know, in the various sessions is about, you know, we are growing, the, our clusters are becoming bigger and bigger. Uh, applications are becoming, you know, bigger as well. So we need to know, understand better what is happening. It's not only, you know, about cost it's about everything at the >>End. So I think that's a great set up for our guests, max, Provo, founder, and CEO of storm for forge and Patrick Britton, Bergstrom, Brookstone. Yeah, I spelled it right. I didn't say it right. Berg storm CTO. We're at Q con cloud native con we're projects are discussed, built and storm forge. I I've heard the pitch before, so forgive me. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of torn. I have service mesh. What do I need more like, what problem is storm for solving? >>You wanna take it? >>Sure, absolutely. So it it's interesting because, uh, my background is in the enterprise, right? I was an executive at United health group. Um, before that I worked at best buy. Um, and one of the issues that we always had was, especially as you migrate to the cloud, it seems like the CPU dial or the memory dial is your reliability dial. So it's like, oh, I just turned that all the way to the right and everything's hunky Dory. Right. Uh, but then we run into the issue like you and I were just talking about where it gets very, very expensive, very quickly. Uh, and so my first conversations with Matt and the storm forge group, and they were telling me about the product and, and what we're dealing with. I said, that is the problem statement that I have always struggled with. And I wish this existed 10 years ago when I was dealing with EC two costs, right? And now with Kubernetes, it's the same thing. It's so easy to provision. So realistically, what it is is we take your raw telemetry data and we essentially monitor the performance of your application. And then we can tell you using our machine learning algorithms, the exact configuration that you should be using for your application to achieve the results that you're looking for without over provisioning. So we reduce your consumption of CPU of memory and production, which ultimately nine times outta 10, actually I would say 10 out of 10 reduces your cost significantly without sacrificing reliability. >>So can your solution also help to optimize the application in the long run? Because yes, of course, yep. You know, the lowing fluid is, you know, optimize the deployment. Yeah. But actually the long term is optimizing the application. Yes. Which is the real problem. >>Yep. So we actually, um, we're fine with the, the former of what you just said, but we exist to do the latter. And so we're squarely and completely focused at the application layer. Um, we are, uh, as long as you can track or understand the metrics you care about for your application, uh, we can optimize against it. Um, we love that we don't know your application. We don't know what the SLA and SLO requirements are for your app. You do. And so in, in our world, it's about empowering the developer into the process, not automating them out of it. And I think sometimes AI and machine learning sort of gets a bad wrap from that standpoint. And so, uh, we've at this point, the company's been around, you know, since 2016, uh, kind of from the very early days of Kubernetes, we've always been, you know, squarely focused on Kubernetes using our core machine learning, uh, engine to optimize metrics at the application layer, uh, that people care about and, and need to need to go after. And the truth of the matter is today. And over time, you know, setting a cluster up on Kubernetes has largely been solved. Um, and yet the promise of, of Kubernetes around portability and flexibility, uh, downstream when you operationalize the complexity, smacks you in the face. And, uh, and that's where, where storm forge comes in. And so we're a vertical, you know, kind of vertically oriented solution. Um, that's, that's absolutely focused on solving that problem. >>Well, I don't want to play, actually. I want to play the, uh, devils advocate here and, you know, >>You wouldn't be a good analyst if you didn't. >>So the, the problem is when you talk with clients, users, they, there are many of them still working with Java with, you know, something that is really tough. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, I mean, we loved all of us loved Java. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe 20 years ago. Yeah. But not anymore, but still they have developers. They are porting applications, microservices. Yes. But not very optimized, etcetera. C cetera. So it's becoming tough. So how you can interact with these kind of yeah. Old hybrid or anyway, not well in generic applications. >>Yeah. We, we do that today. We actually, part of our platform is we offer performance testing in a lower environment and stage. And we like Matt was saying, we can use any metric that you care about and we can work with any configuration for that application. So the perfect example is Java, you know, you have to worry about your heap size, your garbage collection tuning. Um, and one of the things that really struck, struck me very early on about the storm forage product is because it is true machine learning. You remove the human bias from that. So like a lot of what I did in the past, especially around SRE and, and performance tuning, we were only as good as our humans were because of what they knew. And so we were, we kind of got stuck in these paths of making the same configuration adjustments, making the same changes to the application, hoping for different results. But then when you apply machine learning capability to that, the machine will recommend things you never would've dreamed of. And you get amazing results out of >>That. So both me and an Rico have been doing this for a long time. Like I have battled to my last breath, the, the argument when it's a bare metal or a VM. Yeah. Look, I cannot give you any more memory. Yeah. And the, the argument going all the way up to the CIO and the CIO basically saying, you know what, Keith you're cheap, my developer resources expensive, my bigger box. Yep. Uh, buying a bigger box in the cloud to your point is no longer a option because it's just expensive. Talk to me about the carrot or the stick as developers are realizing that they have to be more responsible. Where's the culture change coming from? So is it, that is that if it, is it the shift in responsibility? >>I think the center of the bullseye for us is within those sets of decisions, not in a static way, but in an ongoing way, especially, um, especially as the development of applications becomes more and more rapid. And the management of them, our, our charge and our belief wholeheartedly is that you shouldn't have to choose, you should not have to choose between costs or performance. You should not have to choose where your, you know, your applications live, uh, in a public private or, or hybrid cloud environment. And so we want to empower people to be able to sit in the middle of all of that chaos and for those trade-offs and those difficult interactions to no, no longer be a thing. You know, we're at, we're at a place now where we've done, you know, hundreds of deployments and never once have we met a developer who said, I'm really excited to get outta bed and come to work every day and manually tune my application. <laugh> One side, secondly, we've never met, uh, you know, uh, a manager or someone with budget that said, uh, please don't, you know, increase the value of my investment that I've made to lift and shift us over mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, to the cloud or to Kubernetes or, or some combination of both. And so what we're seeing is the converging of these groups, um, at, you know, their happy place is the lack of needing to be able to, uh, make those trade offs. And that's been exciting for us. So, >>You know, I'm listening and looks like that your solution is right in the middle in application per performance management, observability. Yeah. And, uh, and monitoring. So it's a little bit of all of this. >>So we, we, we, we want to be, you know, the Intel inside of all of that, mm-hmm, <affirmative>, we don't, you know, we often get lumped into one of those categories. It used to be APM a lot. We sometimes get a, are you observability or, and we're really not any of those things in and of themselves, but we, instead of invested in deep integrations and partnerships with a lot of those, uh, with a lot of that tooling, cuz in a lot of ways, the, the tool chain is hardening, uh, in a cloud native and, and Kubernetes world. And so, you know, integrating in intelligently staying focused and great at what we solve for, but then seamlessly partnering and not requiring switching for, for our users who have already invested likely in a APM or observability. >>So to go a little bit deeper. Sure. What does it mean integration? I mean, do you provide data to this, you know, other applications in, in the environment or are they supporting you in the work that you >>Yeah, we're, we're a data consumer for the most part. Um, in fact, one of our big taglines is take your observability and turn it into actionability, right? Like how do you take the it's one thing to collect all of the data, but then how do you know what to do with it? Right. So to Matt's point, um, we integrate with folks like Datadog. Um, we integrate with Prometheus today. So we want to collect that telemetry data and then do something useful with it for you. >>But, but also we want Datadog customers. For example, we have a very close partnership with, with Datadog, so that in your existing data dog dashboard, now you have yeah. This, the storm for capability showing up in the same location. Yep. And so you don't have to switch out. >>So I was just gonna ask, is it a push pull? What is the developer experience? When you say you provide developer, this resolve ML, uh, learnings about performance mm-hmm <affirmative> how do they receive it? Like what, yeah, what's the, what's the, what's the developer experience >>They can receive it. So we have our own, we used to for a while we were CLI only like any good developer tool. Right. Uh, and you know, we have our own UI. And so it is a push in that, in, in a lot of cases where I can come to one spot, um, I've got my applications and every time I'm going to release or plan for a release or I have released, and I want to take, pull in, uh, observability data from a production standpoint, I can visualize all of that within the storm for UI and platform, make decisions. We allow you to, to set your, you know, kind of comfort level of automation that you're, you're okay with. You can be completely set and forget, or you can be somewhere along that spectrum. And you can say, as long as it's within, you know, these thresholds, go ahead and release the application or go ahead and apply the configuration. Um, but we also allow you to experience, uh, the same, a lot of the same functionality right now, you know, in Grafana in Datadog, uh, and a bunch of others that are coming. >>So I've talked to Tim Crawford who talks to a lot of CIOs and he's saying one of the biggest challenges, or if not, one of the biggest challenges CIOs are facing are resource constraints. Yeah. They cannot find the developers to begin with to get this feedback. How are you hoping to address this biggest pain point for CIOs? Yeah. >>Development? >>Just take that one. Yeah, absolutely. That's um, so like my background, like I said, at United health group, right. It's not always just about cost savings. In fact, um, the way that I look about at some of these tech challenges, especially when we talk about scalability, there's kind of three pillars that I consider, right? There's the tech scalability, how am I solving those challenges? There's the financial piece, cuz you can only throw money at a problem for so long. And it's the same thing with the human piece. I can only find so many bodies and right now that pool is very small. And so we are absolutely squarely in that footprint of, we enable your team to focus on the things that they matter, not manual tuning like Matt said. And then there are other resource constraints that I think that a lot of folks don't talk about too. >>Like we were, you were talking about private cloud for instance. And so having a physical data center, um, I've worked with physical data centers that companies I've worked for have owned where it is literally full wall to wall. You can't rack any more servers in it. And so their biggest option is, well, I could spend 1.2 billion to build a new one if I wanted to. Or if you had a capability to truly optimize your compute to what you needed and free up 30% of your capacity of that data center. So you can deploy additional name spaces into your cluster. Like that's a huge opportunity. >>So either out of question, I mean, may, maybe it, it doesn't sound very intelligent at this point, but so is it an ongoing process or is it something that you do at the very beginning mean you start deploying this. Yeah. And maybe as a service. Yep. Once in a year I say, okay, let's do it again and see if something changes. Sure. So one spot 1, 1, 1 single, you know? >>Yeah. Um, would you recommend somebody performance tests just once a year? >>Like, so that's my thing is, uh, previous at previous roles I had, uh, my role was you performance test, every single release. And that was at a minimum once a week. And if your thing did not get faster, you had to have an executive exception to get it into production. And that's the space that we wanna live in as well as part of your C I C D process. Like this should be continuous verification every time you deploy, we wanna make sure that we're recommending the perfect configuration for your application in the name space that you're deploying >>Into. And I would be as bold as to say that we believe that we can be a part of adding, actually adding a step in the C I C D process that's connected to optimization and that no application should be released monitored and sort of, uh, analyzed on an ongoing basis without optimization being a part of that. And again, not just from a cost perspective, yeah. Cost end performance, >>Almost a couple of hundred vendors on this floor. You know, you mentioned some of the big ones, data, dog, et cetera. But what happens when one of the up and comings out of nowhere, completely new data structure, some imaginable way to click to elementry data. Yeah. How do, how do you react to that? >>Yeah. To us it's zeros and ones. Yeah. Uh, and you know, we're, we're, we're really, we really are data agnostic from the standpoint of, um, we're not, we we're fortunate enough to, from the design of our algorithm standpoint, it doesn't get caught up on data structure issues. Um, you know, as long as you can capture it and make it available, uh, through, you know, one of a series of inputs, what one, one would be load or performance tests, uh, could be telemetry, could be observability if we have access to it. Um, honestly the messier, the, the better from time to time, uh, from a machine learning standpoint, um, it, it, it's pretty powerful to see we've, we've never had a deployment where we, uh, where we saved less than 30% while also improving performance by at least 10%. But the typical results for us are 40 to 60% savings and, you know, 30 to 40% improvement in performance. >>And what happens if the application is, I, I mean, yes, Kubernetes is the best thing of the world, but sometimes we have to, you know, external data sources or, or, you know, we have to connect with external services anyway. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. So can you, you know, uh, can you provide an indication also on, on, on this particular application, like, you know, where the problem could >>Be? Yeah, yeah. And that, that's absolutely one of the things that we look at too, cuz it's um, especially when you talk about resource consumption, it's never a flat line, right? Like depending on your application, depending on the workloads that you're running, um, it varies from sometimes minute to minute, day to day, or it could be week to week even. Um, and so especially with some of the products that we have coming out with what we want to do, you know, partnering with, uh, you know, integrating heavily with the HPA and being able to handle some of those bumps and not necessarily bumps, but bursts and being able to do it in a way that's intelligent so that we can make sure that, like I said, it's the perfect configuration for the application regardless of the time of day that you're operating in or what your traffic patterns look like. Um, or you know, what your disc looks like, right? Like cuz with our, our low environment testing, any metric you throw at us, we can, we can optimize for. >>So Madden Patrick, thank you for stopping by. Yeah. Yes. We can go all day. Because day two is I think the biggest challenge right now. Yeah. Not just in Kubernetes, but application replatforming and re and transformation. Very, very difficult. Most CTOs and S that I talked to, this is the challenge space from Valencia Spain. I'm Keith Townsend, along with my host en Rico senior. And you're watching the queue, the leader in high tech coverage.

>>Hi, welcome to the cubes coverage of splunk.com 21. I need some Martin Brian Berg joins me next director at Accenture leading the EMEA Splunk partnership. Brian, welcome to the program. Talk to me a little bit about the Splunk Accenture partnership. This goes back about five years, I believe. >>Yeah, let me provide a bit of, uh, of a history. Uh, we have been starting with Splunk very intensively more than five years ago. Uh, we have been working very closely together to create something like an incubator approach to really serve the markets as, as best as possible. It was really successful. So exponential growth far beyond the markets, uh, for the last five years. So I'm really proud to be part of that journey. And, uh, the partnership is kind of anchored around three core components. The first component is what we typically call matching up our deep Accentia industry expertise with cloud spend Splunk technology. So it really gives a unique differentiator in the market combining that unique industry understanding and the Splunk technology, which is really capable to have an end to end platform for our clients. I'll give you an example a couple of years ago with, and starting to work in Germany was Dr. >>Bank cargo, which is one of the leading European, uh, freights or companies that, where we really put the Splunk that Phonto to the stretch and are using even IOT data like vegan shots, sensors, or locomotive data to create very fancy, you know, the use cases. So that, that's just an example how the deep industry expertise of Accentia and the blank technology expertise can work together. So the second part, maybe just to mention that is that Accenture in the partnership is developing industrialized solutions and that is, uh, needing to Accentia IP, which very rapidly can serve our customers in creating value and to transforming our clients on their journey. A great example is our supply chain of ring. We have developed a supply chain control tower, which has these days, obviously with the pandemic situation and the supply chain issues, uh, impacting our economic, uh, return. Uh, recovery is a very specific and very strong case. You can really use Splunk as a real time supply chain tour, and that's kind of the industrialized vertical solutions, which we also, uh, did in our partnership at last. Let me comment on that one, the kind of service pillar is really around cloud. So we are focusing heavily on the cloud business. As we see Splunk also an enabler of the cloud journey for our clients >>And both Splunk and Accenture on their own, uh, digital transformation Splunk going to some subscription only back in 2019, Accenture beginning, it's a cloud transformation, 2015. Talk to me about the cloud first initiative. You launched this about a year ago. So during a very challenging time, talk to me about the objectives of the cloud first initiative, how you're working together with Splunk and what some of the value is in it for the customers. >>So Accenture really sings clouds. You see it that we did a very aggressive transformation. The shift we even changed our organization, organizational structure, how we serve our customers within our cloud service to approach. So we combine our expertise from our strategy and consulting experts with implementation and delivery expertise, to have the full end, to end perspective on what we need to transform and transition our clients into the cloud journey. Um, and we are heavily investing into the cloud markets. Uh, we are doing research, uh, in the market to understand also the client needs and the market developments. For example, we recently launched a European, uh, study called cloud continuum where we interviewed more than 4,000 executives around the globe on what are the key priorities along their cloud journey? What is it really that makes it unique and differentiated? Uh, and we see what are the driving factors in the cloud market in Europe, it's a bit special as compared to the us, uh, the key priority driver of our clients moving into the cloud is cost competitive toughness. So they are really moving into the cloud to save costs. The cost play only the second, uh, kind of the answer was like 38% of respondents has been elaborating around increasing customer value. And here you see already the difference between Europe and us, uh, it's, it's much, much lagging behind in terms of understanding the data in your cloud to create new business opportunities and new business value for your customers, which, uh, which is typically, uh, an opportunity, but also challenge >>One of the challenges that organizations often face regardless of where they are in the world is looking at cloud from a price point perspective rather than a transformational journey perspective. But it sounds like you've actually seen the opposite with this survey that you mentioned. >>Yeah. I mean, that's, that's a fair point. So as set, uh, in, in Europe, we are having many clients and customers focusing on the cost competitiveness, but that typically just one key challenge. Uh, another challenge, especially in Europe is around complexity of our data regulation of trust and compliance. So that very often leads to, again, silos in the cloud architecture. So typically something you would want to overcome with the cloud journey and again, in a kind of siloed infrastructure. So we are having, we have seen that more than 60% of our customers have stirred parts of that data and on-premise data stores. They have kind of hybrid cloud environments. We have more than 48% of our customers in kind of a cloud environment. So you will see that the cloud journey again is a very complex task complex journey, and you are ending up very often in a new silos and he explained comes into play because blank can enable you to have the end to end perspective across your full stack, including a multi and hybrid cloud environment. And that's why the reason why we are looking for a strong interlock of our Splunk business into our cloud first approach to really bring that value into our cloud journey of our customers. >>So the, the complexity is, has been increasing. You mentioned a very high percentage of customers in that hybrid multi-cloud environment. How do you Accenture in Splunk, how does this cloud first initiative help address the complexities that cloud that a multi-cloud environment brings and unlock the opportunities in all of this data? >>Yeah, I mean, there's different ways to see that in my perspective, the cloud transformation, the cloud journey always requires a smart data cloud strategy as a core tool. I call it the core to win because without the cloud data strategy, you are losing really the benefit of the cloud journey in terms of the full value potential of your data. Um, I do see like an evolutionary path of the cloud transformation. First of all, is bringing and transitioning our clients into the cloud. And Splunk would be at the first milestone, the end to end perspective of having the cloud transplant, the cloud ops of ability and club monitoring capability. So it's combining the end-to-end picture and mighty cloud hybrid cloud environment in a single pane of glass, which is really unique from a technology perspective. But in the second step, it could even go further and talking about machine learning technologies about AI and bringing that to the next level on that evolutionary path. >>That's what we typically call AI ops. And that again makes a difference in terms of automation, in terms of efficiencies, in terms of prediction capabilities, which is a huge advantage and value potential for our clients. And the third step is coming back a bit to your point in terms of leaving the data value, uh, in the cloud. So if you are getting more and more advanced, you have so much data in your cloud that you could even use it for new business models for new customer service use cases. Uh, and that's kind of the kind of evolutionary past what I call the data to everything cloud, which is very similar to where Splunk is positioning and using all that data and to end for really bringing value and additional value, add to your customers. There's a >>Tremendous amount of value in that data. If it can be analyzed the value unlocked and analyzed and acted on in real time so that organizations can make business decisions on products and services. And obviously from a competitive differentiation perspective, there's a tremendous amount, a tremendous amount of value. And unlocking that data. What are you seeing in the last, in the last year, since there's been so much acceleration where the customers are coming to you saying Accenture Splunk, help us figure out how to migrate to the cloud. We've got to go quickly, we've got these competitive pressures, we've got a very dynamic world market. What's that pathway like? >>Yeah, it's a very interesting time. So typically you see this cloud transformation journeys as a journey of several years. And in the pandemic situation, you have seen that a couple of months for some of our clients, because it's really important to survive in this very disruptive economic situations. So obviously you start first with, uh, getting the basics done with kind of getting the migration done, getting the migration to the cloud and uplifting our client's technology to the next. So the new kind of cloud paradigm, but, uh, assets that kind of next evolutionary path would be increased. Automation would be increased usage of all the cloud data for additional value add and additional business models. Our client use cases. So that's kind of the starting discussion always is how to bring it to the cloud and how to create that flexibility. That also that grows flexibility in terms of being more resilient, being more agile as a customer, but a Splunk can do much, much more. And that's the story we want to, and we want to explain to the market that the basic steps are the right ones and Splunk is getting you there, especially in multi hybrid thought environments. But the very next step is really untapping. The value. >>A lot of organizations have been challenged culturally in the last year and a half with suddenly this distribution of the workforce. And now here we are still in a distributed environment, maybe getting towards a hybrid model, but cultural change is challenging for organizations in any industry where is cultural change as a part of the pathway that Accenture and Splunk help customers to create >>Absolutely spot on sex dealer for the question. And going back to the research research I was talking earlier on, we have also seen that 46% of our clients are really challenged by the complexity of the transition it's complexity of their business, of their business processes, but also the complexity of the operational change. And that really is a major pitfall and th and the major challenge for us. It's not only a technological challenge, but also it's a change and kind of transition management where we also have specified specialized ones items for an hour at, you know, practice our terms and, and change our practice, which are supporting our clients along that transition journey from a cultural perspective, because I mean, you can change your, your it infrastructure. You can create a new architecture in the cloud, but it's really about getting the business into the next level of understanding these complex data situations and processes and leveraging the value of the cloud. So that's a huge business change as well. >>It is a huge business change, which is challenging for a lot of folks again, given the distributed nature with which in which we are still working. Talk to me about an example of a, of a successful customer that, uh, Accenture and Splunk have worked with in the last year. Who's really embraced the cloud first initiative and is transforming their organizations to not only survive these challenging times, but to thrive as well. >>Yeah, one of my favorite examples is a leading hotel chain. Obviously the hotel industry has been heavily impacted by COVID. Uh, so, uh, there was a need to change to a need to get more resilient, more agile and more flexible. You think the cloud transformation story also, again, as a cost transformation play, but also changing the way the business is working. So we started with a typical cloud transformation journey. Uh, we evolved it towards what we, what we call the AI ops scenario in terms of really using machine learning technologies and AI, to get more prediction, more automation, more efficiencies. So we could even reduce, uh, the operational cost by more than 5%, which is a huge baseline and leading a global companies, uh, which frees up a lot of money, which you can then reinvest for kind of new, smarter business use cases in addressing your clients and understanding your clients and ultimately generating new value for your clients. So that's a very nice example of how you could start with an it transformation journey, changing into the cloud architecture, using AI ops, to freeing up resources for new addresses for kind of new addressable cut customer use cases and business benefits. >>What's the go to market like working customers go to learn more and get started. Are they starting with Accenture? And they starting with Splunk? Can I do both? >>We have a very collaborative partnership with Splunk. We have a strong partnership team as we speak. We have more like more than 4,000 people working on Splunk projects globally. So it's a very strong capability. Um, you can reach out to Accentia and, uh, you can reach out to Splunk. It's kind of a collaborator strategic go-to-market approach nursing. That's also a bit the advantage of the Splunk Accenture partnership that we are very closely, very collaboratively going to the market. Yes, exemptions bringing IP and assets, empty industrialized delivery methodology. We are able to really scale up globally across the market and Splunk is bringing their technology and the expertise. I think it's a winning combination >>And winning complication and not collaboration is certainly critical to enable that. Brian last question would be, as we approach the end of calendar year 2021, what are some of the things on the horizon for the cloud first initiative that you're excited about as we enter 2022, >>I think it's really getting traction. Now. We have seen a lot of our clients going into the cloud, but asset, from my perspective, it's just the start of the journey. So once you get that kind of, uh, interesting milestone start, you can create the automation efficiencies. You can create the data value and use the data very for new CRM scenarios, new years use cases. And that's where it really gets interesting and fun and innovative in getting all these data across your company and understanding and being creative, how you can use that to benefit your customer and to bring that customer experience to the next level. And that's what I'm looking really forward to coming from the it transformation, the cloud transformation journey to the customer experience and to improving the customer perspective. >>Improving the customer perspective is key. As, as the customer experience, we're all customers in our daily lives and our personal lives and our business lives. And we have this expectation that any organization we're dealing with is going to be able to give us a stellar experience. Brian, thank you for joining me on the cube today, sharing the latest and greatest and the Splunk Accenture partnership, the value that you're delivering for customers and some of the things that you're excited about as we go forward. We appreciate your time. >>Thanks for >>Having me. My pleasure for Brian Berg. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes coverage of splunk.com 21.

(upbeat music) >> Hello everyone and welcome to theCUBE. In this special power panel we're going to dig into and take a peek at the future of cloud. You know a lot has transpired in the last decade. The cloud itself, we've seen a data explosion. The AI winter turned into machine intelligence going mainstream. We've seen the emergence of As-a-Service models. And as we look forward to the next 10 years we see the whole idea of cloud expanding, new definitions occurring. Yes, the world is hybrid but the situation is more nuanced than that. You've got remote locations, smaller data centers, clandestine facilities, oil rigs, autonomous vehicles, windmills, you name it. Technology is connecting our world, data is flowing through the pipes like water, and AI is helping us make sense of the noise. All of this, and more is driving a new digital economy. And with me to talk about these topics are three great guests from IBM. Maia Sisk is the Director of SaaS Offering Management, at IBM Data and AI. And she's within the IBM Cloud and Cognitive Software Group. Stephanie Walter is the Program Director for data and AI Offering Management, same group IBM Cloud and Cognitive Software. And Daniel Berg is a Distinguished Engineer. He's focused on IBM Cloud Kubernetes Service. He's in the Cloud Organization. And he's going to talk today a lot about IBM's cloud Satellite and of course Containers. Wow, two girls, two boys on a panel, we did it. Folks welcome to theCUBE. (chuckles) >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Glad to be here. >> So Maia, I want to start with you and have some other folks chime in here. And really want to dig into the problem statement and what you're seeing with customers and you know, what are some of the challenges that you're hearing from customers? >> Yeah, I think a big challenge that we face is, (indistinct) talked about it earlier just data is everywhere. And when we look at opportunities to apply the cloud and apply an As-a-Service model, one of the challenges that we typically face is that the data isn't all nice cleanly package where you can bring it all together, and you know, one AI models on it, run analytics on it, get it in an easy and clean way. It's messy. And what we're finding is that customers are challenged with the problem of having to bring all of the data together on a single cloud in order to leverage it. So we're now looking at IBM and how we flip that paradigm around. And instead of bringing the data to the cloud bring the cloud to the data , in order to help clients manage that challenge and really harness the value of the data, regardless of where you live. >> I love that because data is distributed by its very nature it's silo, Daniel, anything you'd add? >> Yeah, I mean, I would definitely echo that, what Maia was saying, because we're seeing this with a number of customers that they have certain amount of data that while they're strategically looking that moving to the cloud, there's data that for various reasons they can not move itself into the cloud. And in order to reduce latency and get the fastest amount of processing time, they going to move the processing closer to that data. And that's something that we're looking at providing for our customers as well. The other services within IBM Cloud, through our notion of IBM Cloud Satellite. How to help teams and organizations get processing power manage them to service, but closer to where their data may reside. >> And just to play off of that with one other comment. Then the other thing I think we see a lot today is heightened concerned about risks, about data security, about data privacy. And you're trying to figure out how to manage that challenge of especially when you start sending data over the wire, wanting to make sure that it is still safe, it is still secure and it is still resident in the appropriate places. And that kind of need to manage the governance of the data kind of adds an additional layer of complexity. >> Right, if it's not secure, it's a, non-starter, Stephanie let's bring you into the conversation and talk about, you know, some of the waves that you're seeing. Maybe some of the trends, we've certainly seen digital accelerate as a result of the pandemic. It's no longer I'll get to that someday. It's really, it become a mandate you're out of business, if you don't have a digital business. What are some of the markets shifts that you're seeing? >> Well, I mean, really at the end of the day our clients want to infuse AI into their organizations. And so, you know, really the goal is to achieve ambient AI, AI that's just running in the background unchoosibly helping our clients make these really important business decisions. They're also really focused on trust. That's a big issue here. They're really focused on, you know, being able to explain how their AI is making these decisions and also being able to feel confident that they're not introducing harmful biases into their decision-making. So I say that because when you think about, you know digital organization going digital, that's what our customers want to focus on. They don't want to focus on managing IT. They don't want to focus on managing software. They don't want to to have to focus on, you know, patching and upgrading. And so we're seeing more of a move to manage services As-a-Service technologies, where the clients can really focus on their business problems and using The technologies like AI, to help improve their businesses. And not have to worry so much about building them from the ground up. >> So let's stay on that for a minute. And maybe Maia, Daniel, you can comment. So you, Stephanie, you said that customers want to infuse AI and kind of gave some reasons why, but I want to stay on that for a minute. That, what is that really that main outcome that they're looking for? Maybe there are several, they're trying to get to insight. You mentioned that trynna be more efficient it sounds like they're trynna automate governance and compliance, Maia, Daniel can you sort of add anything to this conversation? >> Yeah, well, I would, I would definitely say that, you know at the end of the day, customers are looking to use the data that they have to make smarter decisions. And in order to make smarter decisions it's not enough to just have the insight. The insight has to, you know, meet the business person that needs it, you know in the context, you know, in the application, in the customer interaction. So I think that that's really important. And then everything else becomes like the the superstructure that helps power, that decision and the decision being embedded in the business process. So we at IBM talk a lot about a concept we call the Ladder to AI. And the the short tagline is there is no AI without IA. You know, there is no Artificial Intelligence without Information Architecture. It is so critical, you know, Maia's version this is the garbage in garbage out. You have to have high quality data. You have to have that data be well-organized and well-managed so that you're using it appropriately. And all of that is just, you know then becomes the fuel that powers your AI. But if you have the AI without having that super structure, you know, you're going to end up making, get bad decisions. And ultimately, you know our customers making their customers experience less than it could and should be. And in a digital world, that's, you know, at the end of the day, it's all about digitizing that interaction with whoever the end customer whoever the end consumer is and making that experience the best it can be, because that's what fuels innovation and growth. >> Okay. So we've heard Arvind Krishna talk about, he actually made this statement IBM has to win the architectural battle for cloud. And I'm wondering maybe Daniel you can comment, on what that architectural framework looks like. I mean Maia just talked about the Information Architecture. You can't have AI without that foundation but we know what does Arvind mean by that? How is IBM thinking about that? >> Yeah, I mean, this is where we're really striving to allow our customers really focusing on their business and focusing on the goals that they're trying to achieve without forcing them to worry as much about the IT and the infrastructure and the platform for which they're going to run. Typically, if you're anchored by your data and the data is not able to move into the cloud, generally we would say that you don't have access to cloud services. You must go and install and run and operate your own software to perform the duties or the processing that you require. And that's a huge burden to push onto a customer because they couldn't move their data to your cloud. Now you're pushing a lot of responsibilities back onto them. So what we're really striving for here is, how can we give them that cloud experience where they can process their data? They can run their run book. They can have all of that managed As-a-Service so that they could focus on their business but get that closer to where the data actually resides. And that's what we're really striving for as far as the architecture is concerned. So with IBM Cloud Satellite, we're pushing the core platform and the platform services that we support in IBM Cloud outside of our data centers and into locations where it's closer to your data. And all of that is underpinned by Containerizations, Containers, Kubernetes and OpenShift. Is fundamentally the platform for which we're building upon. >> Okay. So that, so really it's still it's always a data problem, right? Data is you don't want to move it if you don't have to. Right. So it's, so Stephanie, should we think about this as a new emergent data architecture I guess that's what IA is all about. How do you see that evolving? >> Well I mean, I see it evolving as, I mean, first of all our clients, you know, we know that data is the lifeblood of AI. We know the vast majority of our clients are using more than one cloud. And we know that the client's data may be located in different clouds, and that could be due to costs, that could be due to location. So we have to ask the question, how are our clients supposed to deal with this? This is incredibly complex environments they're are incredibly complex reasons sometimes for the data to be where it is. It can include anything from costs to laws, that our clients have to abide by. So what we need to do, is we need to adapt to these different environments and provide clients with the consistent experience and lower complexity to be able to handle data and be able to use AI in these complex environments. And so, you know, we know data, we also know data science talent is scarce. And if each one of these environments have their own tools that need to be used, depending on where the data is located, that's a huge time sink, for these data scientist and our clients don't want to waste their talents time on problems like this. So what we're seeing is, we're seeing more of a acceptance and realization that this is what our clients are dealing with. We have to make it easier. We have to do Innovative things like figure out how to bring the AI to the data, how to bring the AI to where the clients need it and make it much easier and accessible for them to take advantage of. >> And I think there's an additional point to make on this one, which is it's not just easy and accessible but it's also unified. I mean, one of the challenges that customers face in this multicloud environment and many customers are multicloud, you know, not necessarily by intent but just because of how, you know, businesses have adopted as a service. But to then have all of that experience be fragmented and have different tools not just of data, but different pools of, again catalog, different pools of data science it's extremely complex to manage. So I think one of the powerful things that we're doing here, is we're kind of bringing those multiple clouds together, into more of an integrated or a unified, you know window into the client's data in AI state. So not only does the end-user not have to worry about you know, the technologies of dealing with multiple individual clouds, but also, you know it all comes together in one place. So it can be give managed in a more unified way so that assets can be shared across, and it becomes more of a unified approach. The way I like to think of it is, you know, it's true hybrid multicloud, in that it is all connected as opposed to multi-cloud, but it's pools of multiple clouds, one cloud at a time. >> So it can we stay on that for a second because it's, you're saying it's unified but the data stays where it is. The data is distributed by nature. So it's unified logically, but it's decentralized. Is that, am I getting that right? Correct. Okay. Correct. All right. I'm really interested in how you do this. And maybe we can talk about maybe the approach that you take for some of your offerings and maybe get specific on that. So maybe Stephanie, why don't you start, you know, Yes so, what do you have in your basket? Like Cloud Pak So what we have in our basket I mean lets talk about that. >> We have, so Cloud Pak for Data as a Service. This is our premier data and AI platform. It's offered as a service, its fully managed, and there's roughly, there's 30 services integrated services in our services catalog and growing. So we have services to help you through the entire AI life cycle from preparing your data, which is Maia was saying it's very, very, very important. It's critical to any successful AI project. From building your models, from running the models and then monitoring them to make sure that as I was saying before, you can trust them. You don't have to make sure that, you need to make sure that there's not biased. You need to be able to manage these models and then the life cycle them retrain them if needed. So our platform handles all of that. It's hosted on IBM Cloud. And what we're doing now, which is really exciting, is we're going to use, and you mentioned before IBM Cloud Satellite, as a way for us to send our AI to data that perhaps is located on another cloud or another environment. So how this would work is that the services that are integrated with Cloud Pak for Data as a Service they'll be able to use satellite locations to send their AI workloads, to run next to the data. And this means that the data doesn't need to be moved. You don't have to worry about high egress charges. You can see, you can reduce latency and see much stronger performance by running these AI workloads where it counts. We're really excited to to add this capability to our platform. Because, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about earlier all of these challenges that our clients have and this is going to make a big difference in helping them overcome them. Okay. So Daniel, how to Containers fit in? I mean, obviously the Red Hat acquisition was so strategic. We're seeing the real, the ascendancy of OpenShift in particular. Talk about Containers and where it fits into the IBM Cloud Satellite strategy. >> Yeah. So a lot of this builds on top of how we run our cloud business today. Today the vast majority of the services that are available in IBM cloud catalog, actually runs as Containers, runs in a Kubernetes based environment and runs on top of the services that we provide to our customers. So the Container Platform that we provide to our customers is the same one that we're using to run our own cloud services. And those are underpinned with Containers, Kubernetes, and OpenShift. And IBM cloud satellite, based on the way that the designed our Container Platform using Kubernetes and Containers and OpenShift, allows us to take that same design and the same principles and extended outside of our data centers with user provided infrastructure. And this, this goes back to what Stephanie was saying is a satellite location. So using that technology, that same technology and the fact that we've already containerized many of our services and run them on our own platform, we are now distributing our platform outside of IBM Cloud Data Centers using satellite locations and making those available for our cloud service teams, to make their services available in those locations. >> I see and Maia, this, it is as a service. It's a OPEX. Is that right? Absolutely Okay. Absolutely >> Yeah, it's with the two different options on how we can run. One is we can leverage IBM Cloud Satellite and reach into a customer's operating environment. They provide the infrastructure, but we've provide the As-a-Service experience for the Container on up. The other option that we have is for some of our capabilities like our data science capability, where, you know customer might need something a little bit more turnkey because it's, you know, more of a business person or somebody in the CTO's office consuming the As-a-Service. We'll also offer select workloads in an IBM own satellite and environment. I, you know, so that it kind of soup to nuts managed by us. But that is the key is that other than, you know providing the operating environment and then connecting what we do to, you know, their data sources, really the rest is up to us. We're responsible for, you know everything that you would expect in an As-a-Service environment. That things are running, that they're updated, that they're secure, that they're compliant, that's all part of our responsibility. >> Yeah. So a lot of options for customers and it's kind of the way they want to consume. Let's talk about the business impact. You know, you guys, IBM, very consultative selling, you know, tight relationships with customers. What's the business case look like when you go into a client? What's the conversation like? What's possible? What can you share? Stephanie, can you maybe start things off there? Any examples, use-cases, business case, help us understand the metrics. >> Yeah. I mean, so let's talk about a couple of use cases here. So let's say I'm an investment firm, and I'm using data points from all kinds of data sources right? To use AI, to create models to inform my investment decisions. So I'm going to be using, I may be using data sources you know, like regulatory filings, newspaper articles that are pretty standard. I may also be using things like satellite data that monitors parking lots or maybe even weather data, weather forecast data. And all of this data is coming together and being, it needs to be used for models to predict, you know when to buy, sell, trade, however, due to costs, due to just availability of the data they may be located on completely different clouds. You know, and we know that especially capital markets things are fast, fast, fast. So I need to bring my AI to my data, and need to do it quickly so that I can build these models where the data resides, and then be able to make my investment decisions, very fast. And these models get updated often because conditions change, markets change. And this is one way to provide a unified set of AI tools that my data scientists can use. We don't have to be trained on I'm told depending on what cloud the data is stored on. And they can actually build these models much faster and even cheaper. If you would take into egress charges into consideration, you know, moving all the all this data around. Another use case that we're seeing is you know, something like let's say, a multinational telecommunications company that has locations in multiple countries and maybe they want to reduce their customer churn. So they have say customer data that it's stored in different countries and different countries may have different regulations, or the company may have policies that, that data can't be moved out to those country. So what can we do? Again, what we can do is we can send our AI to this data. We can make a customer churn prediction model, that when my customer service representative is on the phone with a customer, and put their information, and see how likely they are to stop using my service and tailor my phone interaction and the offers that I would offer them as this customer service representative to them. If there's a high likelihood that they're going to churn I will probably sweeten the deal. And I can do all that while I'm being fast, right. Because we know that these interactions need to happen quickly. But also while complying with whatever policies or even regulations that are in place for my multinational company. So you know, if you think back to the use cases that I was just talking about you know, latency, performance, reducing costs and also being able to comply with any policy or regulations that our customers might have are really, are really the key pieces of the use cases that we've been seeing. >> Yeah. So Maia there's a theme here. I bring five megabytes of code to a petabyte of data kind of thing. And so Stephanie was talking about speed. There's a an inherent compliance and governance piece. It's it sounds like it's not a bolt on, it's not an afterthought, it's fundamental. So maybe you could add to the conversation, just specifically interested in, you know, what should a client expect? I mean, you're putting data in the hands of you know domain experts in the line of business. There's a self-serve component here, presumably. So there's cross selling is what I heard in some of what Stephanie was just talking about. So it was revenue, there's cost cutting, there's risk reduction, that I'm seeing the business case form. What can you add? >> Yeah, absolutely. I think that the only other thing I would add, is going back to the conversation that we had about, Oh you know, a lot of this is being driven by, you know the digitization of business and you know even moreso this year. You know, at the end of the day there's a lot of costs benefits to leveraging and As-a-Service model, you know, to leveraging that experience in economies of scale from a service provider, as well as, you know leveraging satellite kind of takes that to the next level of, you know, reducing some other costs. But I always go back to, you know at the end of the day, this is about customer experience. It's about revenue creation, and it's about, you know, creating, you know enhanced customer satisfaction and loyalty. So there's a top-line benefits here, you know, of having the best possible AI, you know plugging that into the customer experience, the application where that application resides. So it's not just about where the data resides. You can also put it on the other side and say, you know, we're bringing the AI, we're bringing the machine learning model to the application so that the experiences at excellent the application is responsive there's less latency and that can help clients then leverage AI to create those revenue benefits, you know, of having the the satisfied customer and of having the, you know the right decision at the right time in order to, you know propel them to, to spend and spend more. >> So Daniel bring us home. I mean, there's a lot of engineering going on here. There's the technology, the people in the process if I'm a client, I'm going to say, okay, I'm going to rely on IBM R&D to cut my labor costs, to drive automation, to help me, you know, automate governance and reduce my risks, you know, take care of the technology. You know, I'll focus my efforts on my process, my people but it's a journey. So how do you see that shaping out in the next, you know several years or, or the coming decade, bring us home. >> Yeah. I mean what we're seeing here is that there's a realization that customers have highly skilled individuals. And we're not saying that these highly skilled individuals couldn't run and operate these platforms and the software themselves, they absolutely could. In some cases, maybe they can't but in many cases they could. But we're also talking about these are they're highly skilled individuals that are focusing on platform and platform services and not their business. And the realization here is that companies want their best and brightest focused on their business, not the platform. If they can get that platform from another vendor that they rely on and can provide the necessary compute services, in a timely and available fashion. The other aspect of this is, people have grown to appreciate those cloud services. They like that on demand experience. And they want that in almost every aspect of what they're working on. And the problem is, sometimes you have to have that experience in localities that are remote. They're very difficult. There's no cloud in some of these remote parts of the world. You might think that clouds everywhere, but it's not. It's actually in very specific locations across the world, but there are many remote locations that they want and need these services from the cloud that they can get. Something like IBM Cloud Satellite. That is what we're pursuing here, is being able to bring that cloud experience into these remote locations where you can't get it today. And that's where you can run your AI workloads. You don't have to run it yourself, we will run it and you can put it in those remote locations. And remote locations don't actually have to be like in the middle of a jungle, they could be in your, on your plant floor or within a port that you have across the world, right? It could be in a warehouse. I mean, there's lots of areas where there's data that needs to be processed quickly, and you want to have that cloud experience, that usage pay model for that processing. And that's exactly what we're trying to achieve with IBM Cloud Satellite and what we're trying to achieve with the IBM Cloud Pak for Data as a Service as well. Running on satellite is to give you those cloud experiences. Those services managed as a service in those remote locations that you absolutely need them and want them. >> Well, you guys are making a lot of progress in the next decade is not going to look like the last decade. I can pretty confident in that prediction. Guys thanks so much for coming on the cube and sharing your insights, really great conversation. >> Absolutely. Thank you, Dave. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome, and thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante from the cube. We'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: From around the globe, It's theCube, with digital coverage, of Actifio data-driven 2020, brought to you by Actifio. >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman, and this is theCube coverage of Actifio Data-driven 2020. Really excited to, dig into a fun topic. I have a Cube alumni with us he is a DevOps author, and researcher Gene Kim. Unicorn Project is the most recent, Gene, great to see you, thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, great to see you again, here at the Actifio conference, this is all fantastic. >> Yeah, so your new book, it was much awaited out there, you know, Unicorn's always discussed out there, but you know, the Phoenix Project, as I said, is really this seminal, book when people say, What is that DevOps thing and how do I do it? So, why don't you give us a little bit as to The Unicorn Project, why is it important? Why we're excited to dig into this and, we'll, we'll tie it into the discussion we're having here for the next normal, at Actifio. >> For sure, yeah, in fact, yeah. As you might have heard in the keynote address, you know, the what, what vexed me, after the Phoenix project came out in 2013 is that there is still looming problems that still remain, seven years after the Phoenix project was written. And, you know, these problems I think are very important, around you and what does it really take to enable developers to truly be productive, instead of being locked in a tundra of technical debt. Two is, you know, how do we unlock truly the power of data so that we can help everyone make better decisions, whether it's a developer, or anyone, within the business units and the organizations that we serve. And then three is like, what are really the behaviors that we need from leadership to make these amazing transformations possible? And so The Unicorn Project really is, the fifth project retold, but instead of through the eyes of Ops leadership, is told through the eyes, of a phenomenal developer. And so it was amazing to revisit the, the Phoenix project universe, I in the same timeline, but told from a different point of view. And it was such a fun project to work on, just because, you know, to relive the story, and just expose all these other problems, not happening, not on the side, but from, the development and data side. >> Yeah. They've always these characters in there that, I know I personally, and many people I talked to can, you know, really associate with, there was a return of certain characters, quite prominent, like Brent, you know, don't be the bottleneck in your system. It's great, if you're a fighter firefighter, and can solve everything, but if everything has to come through you, you know, Pedro is always going off, he's getting no sleep and, you know, you'd just get stressed out. You talked a bit more, about the organization and there are the five ideals in the book. So maybe if you can, you know, strongly recommend, of course, anybody at ending active you, got a copy of the books they'll be able to read the whole thing, but, you know, give us the bumper sticker on some of those key learnings. >> Yeah, for sure, yeah. So the five ideals represents five ideas, I think are just very important, for everyone, the organization, serves, especially leadership. The first ideal is locality and simplicity. In other words, when you need to get something done, we should be able to get it done within our team, without having to do a lot of communication coordination, with people outside of our team. The worst, the most horrible feeling is that in order, to do a small little thing, you actually have, to have a, coordinated action that spans 15 teams, right. And that's why you can't get anything done, right? And so that's so much the hallmark of large complex organizations. The second ideal is that what I think the outcomes are, which is focused flow and joy, you know, I've not just now started to for the first time in 20 years, self identify, not as an ops person, but as a developer. And, I really now understand, why we got into technology in the first place. This so that we can solve the business problem at hand unencumbered by minute share. And that allows for a sense of focus flow and even joy. And I love how Dr. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, describe it. He said, flow is a state that we feel when we love our work, so much that we lose track of time, and maybe even sense of self. And so I think we all in technology understand, you know, that that is how it is on the best of days and how terrible it is, you know, when we don't have that sense of flow. Third ideal is improvement of daily work, being even more important than daily work itself. The notion is greatness is never free, we must create it and must prioritize it, for the psychological safety. And the fifth is customer focus. So those are all the things I think are so important, for modern leaders, because it really defines the future of work. >> Yeah, we love that flow and it happens otherwise we're stuck, in that waiting place as you quoted Dr. Csi. So one of my favorite books there, there also. So Gene, for this audience here, there was, you know, yes, CICD is wonderful and I need to be able to move and ship fast, but the real transformational power, for that organization was unlocking the value of data, which is, I think something that everybody here can. So maybe to talk a little bit about that you know, we, there there's, we've almost talked too much, you know, data is the new oil and things like that, but it's that, you know, that allowing everybody to tap in and leverage, you know, real time what's happening there were just at the early parts of the industry being able to unlock that future. >> Oh yeah, I love that phrase. Data is new oil, especially since oil, you know, the last 50 years, the standard Port 500 was dominated by, you know, resource extraction oil company and so forth. And now that is no longer true, it's dominated by the tech giants. And, Columbia there was a Columbia journalism review article that said, data's not only the new oil, is really the new soil. And for me, you know, my area of passion for the last seven years has been studying the DevOps enterprise community where, we're taking all the learnings that were really pioneered by the tech giants, Facebook, Amazon, Netflix, Google, Microsoft, and seeing how they're being adopted by the largest, most complex organizations on the planet, the best known brands across every industry vertical. And it's so true that, you know, where the real learning gets exploited right, is through data. I realized, this is how we get to know our customers better. This is how we understand their wants and needs. This is how we test, and make offers to them to see if they like it or not to see if they value it or not. And, and so for me, one of the best examples, of this was, the target transformation and Adidas how it was just an amazing example of, to what links they went to, to liberate developers from, being shackled by ancient systems of records, data warehouses, and truly enabled developers to get access to the data they need modify it, even delete information, all without having to be dependent on, you know, integration teams that were essentially holding them hostage for six to nine months. And, these programs really enable some of the most strategic programs at their organizations, you know, enabling hundreds of projects over the years. So, I think that is really, just showing to what extent, the value that is created by unlocking data for individuals. And sorry Stu, one more thing that I'm just always dazzled by my friend, Chris Berg. He told me that, somewhere between a third and a half of all company employees use data in their daily work. They either use data or manipulate data as part of the daily work, which, you know, that, population is actually larger than the number of developers in an organization. So it just shows you how big this problem is, and how much value we can create by addressing this problem. >> Well, it's interesting if it's only a third, we still have work to do. What we've been saying for years is, you know, when you talk about digital transformation, the thing that separates those that have transformed and those that haven't is data needs to be at the core. I just can't be doing things the way I was or doing things off intuition, you know, being data-driven, I'm sure you know, the same Gene, if you're not, if you don't have data, you know, you're just some other person with an opinion. >> Yeah, yeah. That's it this is a great point. And in Risto Siilasmaa's amazing book, Transforming Nokia, I mean, he was, he said exactly that. And he said something that was even more astonishing. He said, there's not only at the core, but data also has to be at the edges. You know, he was describing at Amazon, anyone can do an experiment @booking.com. Anyone can do an experiment to see, if they can create value for the customer. They don't need approvals from, committees or their manager. This is something that is really truly part of everyone's daily work. And so, to me, that was a huge aha moment that says, you know, to what degree, you know. Our cultures need to change so that we can not only, use data, but also create learnings and create new data, you know, that the rest of the organization can learn from as well. >> Yeah. One of the other things I definitely, you know, felt in your book, you synthesize so much of the learnings that you've had over the years from like the DevOps enterprise summit. The question I have for you is, you know, you hear some of these, you know, great stories, but the question is, our companies, are they moving fast enough? Have they transformed the entire business or have they taken, you know, we've got one slice of the business that is kind of modernized and we're going to get to the other 30 pieces along the way, but you know, there's wholesale change, you know, 2020 has had such a big impact. What's your thoughts on, you know, how we are doing in the enterprise on pace of change these days? >> That's a great question. I mean, I think some people, when they ask me, you know, how far are we into kind of total adoption of DevOps? It's a newer better way of working. And I would say probably somewhere between 5 and 7%, right, and the math I would take them through is, you know, there are about 20 million developers on the planet of which at best, I think, a million of them are working in a DevOps type way. But yet now that's only growing. I think it was an amazing presentation at DevOps surprise summit in London that was virtual from nationwide building society, the largest organization of its kind. It's a large financially mutually owned organization for housing in the UK. And, they touched about how, you know, post COVID post lockdown suddenly they found themselves able to do them reckless things that would have normally taken four years, in four weeks. And I think that's what almost every organization is learning these days is, when survival is at stake, you know, we can throw the rules out of the window, right. And do things in a way that are safe and responsible, but, you know, create satisfy the business urgent needs, like, you know, provisioning tens of thousand people to work from home safely. You know, I think the shows, I think it's such a powerful proof point of what technology can do when it is unleashed from, you know, perhaps unnecessarily burdensome rules and process. And I think the other point I would make Stu is that, what has been so rewarding is the population of these technology leaders presenting at DevOps enterprise, they're all being promoted, they're all being, being given new responsibilities because they, are demonstrating that they have the best longterm interest of the organization at heart. And, they're being given even more responsibilities because, to make a bigger impact through the organization. So I'm incredibly optimistic about the direction we're heading and even the pace we're going at. >> Well, Gene definitely 2020 has put a real highlight on how fast things have changed, not just work from home, but, but the homeschooling, you know, telehealth, there are so many things out there where there was no choice, but to move forward. So the, the second presentation you participated in was talking about that next normal. So give us a little bit of, you know, what does that mean? You know, what, what we should be looking at going forward? >> Yeah, it was great to catch up with my friend Paul Forte, who I've known for many, many years, and now, now a VP of sales at the Actifio and yeah, I think it is amazing that academic Dr. Colada Perez, she said, you know, in every turning point, you know, where, there's such a the stage for decades of economic prosperity usually comes, by something exactly like what we're going through now, a huge economic recession or depression, following a period of intense re regulations there's new, technology that's unlocking, you know, new ways of working. And she pointed exactly to what's happening in the Covid pandemic in terms of, how much, the way we're working is being revolutionized, not by choice, but out of necessity. And, you know, as she said, you know, we're now learning to what degree we can actually do our daily work without getting on airplanes or, you know, meeting people in person. So, I'm a hue, I have so many friends in the travel industry, right. I think we all want normalcy to return, but I think we are learning, you know, potentially, you know, there are more efficient ways to do things, that don't require a day of travel for a couple hour meeting and day to return, right. So, yeah, I think this is being demonstrated. I think this will unlock a whole bunch of ways of interacting that will create efficiency. So I don't think we're going, as you suggested, right. There will be a new normal, but the new normal is not going to be the same as your old normal. And I think it will be, in general for the better. >> So, Gene, you, you've gone to gotten to see some of the transformation happening in the organizations when it comes to developers, you know, the, the DevOps enterprise summit, the, the state of DevOps, you know. I think five years ago, we knew how important developers were, but there was such a gap between, well, the developers are kind of in the corner, they don't pay for anything. They're not tied to the enterprise. And today it feels like we have a more cohesive story that there, there is that if you put in The Unicorn Project, it's, you know, business and IT, you know. IT, and the developers can actually drive that change and the survival of the business. So, you know, are we there yet success or net developers now have a seat at the table? Or, you know, what do you see on that, that we still need to do? >> Yeah, I think we're still, I mean, I think we're getting there, we're closer than ever. And as my friend, Chris O'Malley the CEO of the famously resurgent mainframe vendor Compuware said, you know, it is, everyone is aware that you can't do any major initiatives these days without some investment in technology, right? In fact, you can't invest in anything without technology. So I think that is now better understood than ever. And, yeah, just the digital, it's a whole digital disruption, I think is really, no one needs to be convinced that if we organize large complex organizations, don't change, they're at a risk of, you know, being decimated by the organizations that can change using an exploiting technology, you know, to their benefit and to the other person's detriment. So, and that primarily comes through software and who creates software developers. So I, by the way, I love the Stripe it was a CFO for Stripe who said, the largest, constraint for them is, and their peers is not access to capital, it is access development talent. I think when you have CFOs talking like that, right. It does says it's suggested something really has changed in the economic environment that we all compete in. >> So, I mentioned that on the research side, one of the things I've loved reading over the years is that, fundamental discussion that, going faster does not mean, that I am sacrificing security, or, you know, the product itself, you know, in the last couple of years, it's, you know, what separates those really high performing companies, and, you know, just kind of the middle of the ground. So, what, what, what advice would you give out there, to make sure that I'm moving my company more along to those high performing methods. >> Yeah, but just to resonate with that, I was interviewing a friend of mine, Mike Nygaard, long time friend of mine, and we were talking on and we were recalling the first time we both heard the famous 2009 presentation doing 10 deploys a day, every day at flicker, by John Allspaw and Paul Hammond. And we were both incredulous, right there? We thought it was irresponsible reckless, and maybe even immoral what they were doing, because, you know, I think most organizations were doing three a year, and that was very problematic. How could one do 10 deploys a day. And I think, what we now know, with the size of evidence, especially through the state of DevOps research, is that, you know, for six years, 35,000 plus respondents, the only way that you can be reliable, and secure, is to do smaller deployments more frequently, right? It makes you, be able to respond quicker in the marketplace, allows you to have better stability and reliability in the operational environment, allows you to be more secure. It allows you to be able to, you know, increase market share, increase productivity, and, you know, have happier employees. So, you know, at this point, I think the research is so decisive, that, you know, we can, as a whole book accelerate, that really makes the case for that, that this is something that I now have moral certainty or even absolute certainty oh, right. It's, you know, self evident to me, and it, I think we should have confidence that that really is true. >> Wonderful work, Gene, thanks so much for giving us the update. I really appreciate it, some really good sessions here in Actifio, as well as the book. Thanks so much, great to talk to you. >> Stu is always a pleasure to see you again, and thank you so much. >> Alright, that's our coverage from Actifio Data-driven, be sure to check out thecube.net for all of the, on demand content, as well as, as I said, if you were part of the show, definitely recommend reading Gene's book, The Unicorn Project. I'm Stu Miniman. And thank you for watching the cube. (soft upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From around the globe, it's theCube with digital coverage of MIT, Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and this is the seventh year of theCubes coverage of the MIT, Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium. We love getting to talk to these chief data officers and the people in this ecosystem, the importance of data, driving data-driven cultures, and really happy to welcome to the program, first time guests Eileen Vitrine, Eileen is the Chief Data Officer for the United States Air Force, Eileen, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you Stu really excited about being here today. >> All right, so the United States Air Force, I believe had it first CDO office in 2017, you were put in the CDO role in June of 2018. If you could, bring us back, give us how that was formed inside the Air force and how you came to be in that role. >> Well, Stu I like to say that we are a startup organization and a really mature organization, so it's really about culture change and it began by bringing a group of amazing citizen airman reservists back to the Air Force to bring their skills from industry and bring them into the Air Force. So, I like to say that we're a total force because we have active and reservists working with civilians on a daily basis and one of the first things we did in June was we stood up a data lab, that's based in the Jones building on Andrews Air Force Base. And there, we actually take small use cases that have enterprise focus, and we really try to dig deep to try to drive data insights, to inform senior leaders across the department on really important, what I would call enterprise focused challenges, it's pretty exciting. >> Yeah, it's been fascinating when we've dug into this ecosystem, of course while the data itself is very sensitive and I'm sure for the Air Force, there are some very highest level of security, the practices that are done as to how to leverage data, the line between public and private blurs, because you have people that have come from industry that go into government and people that are from government that have leveraged their experiences there. So, if you could give us a little bit of your background and what it is that your charter has been and what you're looking to build out, as you mentioned that culture of change. >> Well, I like to say I began my data leadership journey as an active duty soldier in the army, and I was originally a transportation officer, today we would use the title condition based maintenance, but back then, it was really about running the numbers so that I could optimize my truck fleet on the road each and every day, so that my soldiers were driving safely. Data has always been part of my leadership journey and so I like to say that one of our challenges is really to make sure that data is part of every airmans core DNA, so that they're using the right data at the right level to drive insights, whether it's tactical, operational or strategic. And so it's really about empowering each and every airman, which I think is pretty exciting. >> There's so many pieces of that data, you talk about data quality, there's obviously the data life cycle. I know your presentation that you're given here at the CDO, IQ talks about the data platform that your team has built, could you explain that? What are the key tenants and what maybe differentiates it from what other organizations might have done? >> So, when we first took the challenge to build our data lab, we really wanted to really come up. Our goal was to have a cross domain solution where we could solve data problems at the appropriate classification level. And so we built the VAULT data platform, VAULT stands for visible, accessible, understandable, linked, and trustworthy. And if you look at the DOD data strategy, they will also add the tenants of interoperability and secure. So, the first steps that we have really focused on is making data visible and accessible to airmen, to empower them, to drive insights from available data to solve their problems. So, it's really about that data empowerment, we like to use the hashtag built by airmen because it's really about each and every airman being part of the solution. And I think it's really an exciting time to be in the Air Force because any airman can solve a really hard challenge and it can very quickly wrap it up rapidly, escalate up with great velocity to senior leadership, to be an enterprise solution. >> Is there some basic training that goes on from a data standpoint? For any of those that have lived in data, oftentimes you can get lost in numbers, you have to have context, you need to understand how do I separate good from bad data, or when is data still valid? So, how does someone in the Air Force get some of that beta data competency? >> Well, we have taken a multitenant approach because each and every airman has different needs. So, we have quite a few pathfinders across the Air Force today, to help what I call, upscale our total force. And so I developed a partnership with the Air Force Institute of Technology and they now have a online graduate level data science certificate program. So, individuals studying at AFIT or remotely have the opportunity to really focus on building up their data touchpoints. Just recently, we have been working on a pathfinder to allow our data officers to get their ICCP Federal Data Sector Governance Certificate Program. So, we've been running what I would call short boot camps to prep data officers to be ready for that. And I think the one that I'm most excited about is that this year, this fall, new cadets at the U.S Air Force Academy will be able to have an undergraduate degree in data science and so it's not about a one prong approach, it's about having short courses as well as academe solutions to up skill our total force moving forward. >> Well, information absolutely is such an important differentiator(laughs) in general business and absolutely the military aspects are there. You mentioned the DOD talks about interoperability in their platform, can you speak a little bit to how you make sure that data is secure? Yet, I'm sure there's opportunities for other organizations, for there to be collaboration between them. >> Well, I like to say, that we don't fight alone. So, I work on a daily basis with my peers, Tom Cecila at the Department of Navy and Greg Garcia at the Department of Army, as well as Mr. David Berg in the DOD level. It's really important that we have an integrated approach moving forward and in the DOD we partner with our security experts, so it's not about us doing security individually, it's really about, in the Air Force we use a term called digital air force, and it's about optimizing and building a trusted partnership with our CIO colleagues, as well as our chief management colleagues because it's really about that trusted partnership to make sure that we're working collaboratively across the enterprise and whatever we do in the department, we also have to reach across our services so that we're all working together. >> Eileen, I'm curious if there's been much impact from the global pandemic. When I talk to enterprise companies, that they had to rapidly make sure that while they needed to protect data, when it was in their four walls and maybe for VPN, now everyone is accessing data, much more work from home and the like. I have to imagine some of those security measures you've already taken, but have there anything along those lines or anything else that this shift in where people are, and a little bit more dispersed has impacted your work? >> Well, the story that I like to say is, that this has given us velocity. So, prior to COVID, we built our VAULT data platform as a multitenancy platform that is also cross-domain solution, so it allows people to develop and do their problem solving in an appropriate classification level. And it allows us to connect or pushup if we need to into higher classification levels. The other thing that it has helped us really work smart because we do as much as we can in that unclassified environment and then using our cloud based solution in our gateways, it allows us to bring people in at a very scheduled component so that we maximize, or we optimize their time on site. And so I really think that it's really given us great velocity because it has really allowed people to work on the right problem set, on the right class of patient level at a specific time. And plus the other pieces, we look at what we're doing is that the problem set that we've had has really allowed people to become more data focused. I think that it's personal for folks moving forward, so it has increased understanding in terms of the need for data insights, as we move forward to drive decision making. It's not that data makes the decision, but it's using the insight to make the decision. >> And one of the interesting conversations we've been having about how to get to those data insights is the use of things like machine learning, artificial intelligence, anything you can share about, how you're looking at that journey, where you are along that discovery. >> Well, I love to say that in order to do AI and machine learning, you have to have great volumes of high quality data. And so really step one was visible, accessible data, but we in the Department of the Air Force stood up an accelerator at MIT. And so we have a group of amazing airmen that are actually working with MIT on a daily basis to solve some of those, what I would call opportunities for us to move forward. My office collaborates with them on a consistent basis, because they're doing additional use cases in that academic environment, which I'm pretty excited about because I think it gives us access to some of the smartest minds. >> All right, Eileen also I understand it's your first year doing the event. Unfortunately, we don't get, all come together in Cambridge, walking those hallways and being able to listen to some of those conversations and follow up is something we've very much enjoyed over the years. What excites you about being interact with your peers and participating in the event this year? >> Well, I really think it's about helping each other leverage the amazing lessons learned. I think that if we look collaboratively, both across industry and in the federal sector, there have been amazing lessons learned and it gives us a great forum for us to really share and leverage those lessons learned as we move forward so that we're not hitting the reboot button, but we actually are starting faster. So, it comes back to the velocity component, it all helps us go faster and at a higher quality level and I think that's really exciting. >> So, final question I have for you, we've talked for years about digital transformation, we've really said that having that data strategy and that culture of leveraging data is one of the most critical pieces of having gone through that transformation. For people that are maybe early on their journey, any advice that you'd give them, having worked through a couple of years of this and the experience you've had with your peers. >> I think that the first thing is that you have to really start with a blank slate and really look at the art of the possible. Don't think about what you've always done, think about where you want to go because there are many different paths to get there. And if you look at what the target goal is, it's really about making sure that you do that backward tracking to get to that goal. And the other piece that I tell my colleagues is celebrate the wins. My team of airmen, they are amazing, it's an honor to serve them and the reality is that they are doing great things and sometimes you want more. And it's really important to celebrate the victories because it's a very long journey and we keep moving the goalposts because we're always striving for excellence. >> Absolutely, it is always a journey that we're on, it's not about the destination. Eileen, thank you so much for sharing all that you've learned and glad you could participate. >> Thank you, STU, I appreciate being included today. Have a great day. >> Thanks and thank you for watching theCube. I'm Stu Miniman stay tuned for more from the MIT, CDO IQ event. (lively upbeat music)

(bright upbeat music) >> Announcer: From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders around the globe, these are Cloud Native Insights. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman, the host of Cloud Native Insights. We talk about cloud native, we're talking about how customers can take advantage of the innovation and agility that's out there in the clouds, one of the undercurrents, not so hidden if you've been watching the program so far. We've talked a bit about serverless, say something that's helping remove the friction, allowed developers to take advantage of technology and definitely move really fast. So I'm really happy to welcome to the program, for coming from Fauna. First of all, I have the CTO and Co-founder, who's Evan Weaver. And also joining him is the new CEO Eric Berg. They said, both from Fauna, talking serverless, talking data as an API and talking the modern database. So first of all, thank you both for joining us. >> Thanks for having us Stu. >> Hi, good to be here. >> All right, so Evan, we're going to start with you. I love talking to founders always. If you could take us back a little bit, Fauna as a project first before it was a company, you of course were an early employee at Twitter. So if you could just bring us back a little bit, what created the Fauna project and bring us through a brief history if you would. >> So I was employee 15 and Twitter, I joined in 2008. And I had a database background, I was sort of a performance analyst and worked on Ruby on Rails sites at CNET networks with the team that went on to found GitHub actually. Now I went to Twitter 'cause I wanted Twitter the product to stay alive. And for no greater ambition than that. And I ended up running the back end engineering team there and building out all the distributed storage for the core business objects, tweets, timelines, the social graph, image storage, the cache, that kind of thing. And this was early in the cloud era. API's were new and weird. You couldn't get Amazon EC2 off the shelf easily. We were racking hardware and code ancient center. And there were no databases or platforms for data of any kind. They really let us the Twitter engineering team focus on building the product. And we did a lot of open source work there. Some of which has influenced Fauna, originally, Twitter's open source was hosted on the Fauna GitHub account, which predated Twitter like you mentioned. And I was there for four years build out the team, basically scaled the site, especially scaled the Twitter.com API. And we just never found a platform which was suitable for what we were trying to accomplish. Like a lot of what Twitter did was itself a platform. We had developers all over the world using the Twitter API to interact with tweets. And we're frustrated that we basically had to become specialists in data systems because there wasn't a data API, we can just build the product on. And ultimately, then data API that we wished we had, is now Fauna. >> Well, it's a story we've loved hearing. And it's fascinating one, is that the marketplace wasn't doing what we needed. Often open source is a piece of that, how do we scale that out? How do we build that? Realized that the problem that you have is what others have. And hey, maybe there's a company. So could you give us that transition, Fauna as a product, as a company, where was it understood that, hey, there's a lot of other people that can take advantage from some of the same tools that you needed before. >> I mean, we saw it in the developers working with the Twitter platform. We weren't like, your traditional database experiences, either manage cloud or on-prem, you have to administrate the machine, and you're responsible for its security and its availability and its location and backups and all that kind of thing. People building against Twitter's API weren't doing that. They're just using the web interface that we provided to them. It was our responsibility as a platform provider. We saw lots of successful companies being built on the API, but obviously, it was limited specifically to interacting with tweets. And we also saw peers from Twitter who went on to found companies, other people we knew in the startup scene, struggling to just get something out the door, because they had to do all this undifferentiated heavy lifting, which didn't contribute to their product at all, if they did succeed and they struggled with scalability problems and security problems and that kind of thing. And I think it's been a drag on the market overall, we're essentially, in cloud services. We're more or less built for the enterprise for mature and mid market and enterprise companies that already had resources to put behind these things, then wasn't sort of the cloud equivalent of the web, where individuals, people with fewer resources, people starting new projects, people doing more speculative work, which is what we originally and Jack was doing at Twitter, it just get going and build dynamic web applications. So I think the move to cloud kind of left this gap, which ultimately was starting to be filled with serverless, in particular, that we sort of backtracked from the productivity of the '90s with the lamp era, you can do everything on a single machine, nobody bothered you, you didn't have to pay anyone, just RPM install and you're good to go. To this Kubernetes, containers, cloud, multi site, multi region world where it's just too hard to get a basic product out the door and now serverless is sort of brought that around full circle, we see people building those products again, because the tools have probably matured. >> Well, Evan, I really appreciate you helping set the table. I think you've clearly articulated some of the big challenges we're seeing in the industry right now. Eric, I want to bring you into the conversation. So you relatively recently brought in as CEO, came from Okta a company that is also doing quite well. So give us if you could really the business opportunity here, serverless is not exactly the most mature market, there's a lot of interest excitement, we've been tracking it for years and see some good growth. But what brought you in and what do you see is that big opportunity. >> Yeah, absolutely, so the first thing I'll comment on is what, when I was looking for my next opportunity, what was really important is to, I think you can build some of the most interesting businesses and companies when there are significant technological shifts happening. Okta, which you mentioned, took advantage of the fact of SaaS application, really being adopted by enterprise, which back in 2009, wasn't an exactly a known thing. And similarly, when I look at Fauna, the move that Evan talked about, which is really the maturation of serverless. And therefore, that as an underpinning for a new type of applications is really just starting to take hold. And so then there creates opportunities that for a variety of different people in that stack that to build interesting businesses and obviously, the databases is an incredibly important part of that. And the other thing I've mentioned is that, a lot of people don't know this but there's a very good chunk of Okta's business, which is what they call their customer identity business, which is basically, servicing of identity is a set of API's that people can integrate into their applications. And you see a lot of enterprises using this as a part of their digital transformation effort. And so I was very familiar with that model and how prevalent, how much investment, how much aid was out there for customers, as every company becoming a software company and needing to rethink their business and build applications. And so you put those two trends together and you just see that serverless is going to be able to meet the needs of a lot of those companies. And as Evan mentioned, databases in general and traditionally have come with a lot of complexity from an operational perspective. And so when you look at the technology and some of the problems that Fauna has solved, in terms of really removing all of that operational burden when it comes to starting with and scaling a database, not only locally but globally. It's sort of a new, no brainer, everybody would love to have a database that scales, that is reliable and secure that they don't have to manage. >> Yeah, Eric, one follow up question for you. I think back a few years ago, you talked to companies and it's like, okay, database is the center of my business. It's a big expense. I have a team that works on it. There have been dealt so much change in the database market than most customers I talked to, is I have lots of solutions out there. I'm using Mongo, I've got Snowflake, Amazon has flavors of things I'm looking at. Snowflake just filed for their IPO, so we see the growth in the space. So maybe if you could just obviously serverless is a differentiation. There's a couple of solutions out there, like from Amazon or whether Aurora serverless solution but how does Fauna look to differentiate. Could you give us a little bit of kind of compared to the market out there? >> Sure, yeah, so at the high level, just to clarify, at the super high level for databases, there tends to be two types operational databases and then data warehouse which Snowflake is an example of a data warehouse. And as you probably already know, the former CEO of Snowflake is actually a chairman of Fauna. So Bob Muglia. So we have a lot of good insight into that business. But Fauna is very much on the operational database side. So the other half of that market, if you will, so really focused on being the core operational store for your application. And I think Evan mentioned it a little bit, there's been a lot of the transformation that's happened if we rewind all the way back to the early '90s, when it was Oracle, and Microsoft SQL Server were kind of the big players there. And then as those architectures basically hit limits, when it came to applications moving to the web, you had this whole rise in a lot of different no SQL solutions, but those solutions sort of gave up on some of the promises of a relational database in order to achieve some of the ability to scale in the performance required at the web. But we required then a little bit more sophistication, intelligence, in order to be able to basically create logic in your application that could make up for the fact that those databases didn't actually deliver on the promises of traditional relational databases. And so, enter Fauna and it's really sort of a combination of those two things, which is providing the trust, the security and reliability of a traditional relational database, but offering it as serverless, as we talked about, at the scale that you need it for a web application. And so it's a very interesting combination of those capabilities that we think, as Evan was talking about, allows people who don't have large DevOps teams or very sophisticated developers who can code around some of the limitations of these other databases, to really be able to use a database for what they're looking for. What I write to it is what I'm going to read from it and that we maintain that commitment and make that super easy. >> Yeah, it's important to know that the part of the reason that operational database, the database for mission critical business data has remained a cost center is because the conventional wisdom was that something like Fauna was impossible to build. People said, you literally cannot in information science create a global API for data which is transactional and consistent and suitable for relying on, for mission critical, user login, banking payments, user generated content, social graphs, internal IT data, anything that's irreplaceable. People said, there can be no general service that can do this ubiquitously a global internet scale, you have to do it specifically. So it's sort of like, we had no power company. Instead, you could call up Amazon, they drive a truck with a generator to your house and hook you up. And you're like, right on, I didn't have to like, install the generator myself. But like, it's not a good experience. It's still a pain in the neck, it's still specific to the location you're at. It's not getting utility computing from the cloud the way, it's been a dream for many decades that we get all our services through brokers and API's and the web and it's finally real with serverless. I want to emphasize that the Fauna it technology is new and novel. And based on and inspired by our experience at Twitter and also academic research with some of our advisors like Dr. Daniel Abadi. It's one of the things that attracted us, Snowflake chairman to our company that we'd solve groundbreaking problems in information science in the cloud, just the way Snowflakes had. >> Yeah, well and Evan, yeah please go on Eric. >> Yeah, I'm just going to have one thing to that, which is, in addition, I think when you think about Fauna and you mentioned MongoDB, I think they're one of a great examples of database companies over the last decade, who's been able to build a standalone business. And if you look at it from a business model perspective, the thing that was really successful for them is they didn't go into try to necessarily like, rip and replace in big database migrations, they started evolving with a new class of developers and new applications that were being developed and then rode that obviously into sort of a land and expand model into enterprises over time. And so when you think about Fauna from your business value proposition is harnessing the technological innovation that Evan talked about. And then combining this with a product that bottoms up developer first business motion that kind of rides this technological shift into you creating a presence in the database market over time. >> Well, Evan, I just want to go back to that, it's impossible comment that you made, a lot of people they learn about a technology and they feel that that's the way the technology works. Serverless is obviously often misunderstood from the name itself, too. We had a conversation with Andy Jassy, the CEO of AWS a couple years ago, and he said, "If I could rebuild AWS from the ground up today, "it would be using all serverless," that doesn't mean only lambda, but they're rebuilding a lot of their pieces underneath it. So I've looked at the container world and we're only starting the last year or so, talking about people using databases with Kubernetes and containers, so what is it that allows you to be able to have as you said, there's the consistency. So we're talking about acid there, not worry about things like cold starts, which are thing lots of people are concerned about when it comes to serverless and help us understand a little bit that what you do and the underlying technologies that you leverage. >> Yeah, databases are always the last to evolve because they're the riskiest to change and the hardest to build. And basically, through the cloud era, we've done this lift and shift of existing on premises solutions, especially with databases into cloud machines, but it's still the metaphor of the physical computer, which is the overriding unit of granularity mental concept, everything like you mentioned, containers, like we had machines then we had Vms, now we have containers, it's still a computer. And the database goes in that one computer, in one spot and it sits there and you got to talk to it. Wherever that is in the world, no matter how far away it is from you. And people said, well, the relational database is great. You can use locks within a single machine to make sure that you're not conflicting your data when you update it, you going to have transactionality, you can have serialize ability. What do you do, if you want to make that experience highly available at global scale? We went through a series of evolutions as an industry. From initially that the on-prem RDBMS to things like Google's percolator scheme, which essentially scales that up to data center scale and puts different parts of the traditional database on different physical machines on low latency links, but otherwise doesn't change the consistency properties, then to things like Google Spanner, which rely on synchronized atomic clocks to guarantee consistency. Well, not everyone has synchronized atomic clocks just lying around. And they're also, their issues with noisy neighbors and tenancy and things because you have to make sure that you can always read the clock in a consistent amount of time, not just have the time accurate in the first place. And Fauna is based on and inspired and evolved from an algorithm called Calvin, which came out of a buddy's lab at Yale. And what Calvin does is invert the traditional database relationship and say, instead of doing a bunch of work on the disk and then figuring out which transactions won by seeing what time it is, we will create a global pre determined order of transactions which is arbitrary by journaling them and replicating them. And then we will use that to essentially derive the time from the transactions which have already been committed to disk. And then once we know the order, we can say which one's won and didn't win and which happened before, happen after and present the appearance of consistency to all possible observers. And when this paper came out, it came out about a decade ago now I think, it was very opaque. There's a lot of kind of hand waving exercises left to the reader. Some scary statements about how wasn't suitable for things that in particular SQL requires. We met, my co-founder and I met as Fauna chief architect, he worked on my team at Twitter, at one of the database groups. We were building Fauna we were doing our market discovery or prototyping and we knew we needed to be a global API. We knew we needed low latency, high performance at global scale. We looked at Spanner and Spanner couldn't do it. But we found that this paper proposed a way that could and we can see based on our experience at Twitter that you could overcome all these obstacles which had made the paper overall being neglected by industry and it took us quite a while to implement it at industrial quality and scale, to qualify it with analysts and others, prove to the world that it was real. And Eric mentioned Mongo, we did a lot of work with Cassandra as well at Twitter, we're early in the Cassandra community. Like I wrote, the first tutorial for Cassandra where data stacks was founded. These vendors were telling people that you could not have transactionality and scale at the same time, and it was literally impossible. Then we had this incrementalism like things with Spanner. And it wasn't till Fauna that anyone had proved to the world that that just wasn't true. There was more marketing around their failure to solve the information science problem, than something fundamental. >> Eric, I'm wondering if you're able to share just order of magnitude, how many customers you have out there from a partnership standpoint, we'd like to understand a little bit how you work or fit into the public cloud ecosystems out there. I noticed that Alphabets General Venture Fund was one of the contributors to the last raise. And obviously, there's some underlying Google technology there. So if you could just customers and ecosystem. >> Yeah, so as I mentioned, we've had a very aggressive product lead developer go to market. And so we have 10s of thousands of people now on the service, using Fauna at different levels. And now we're focused on, how do we continue to build that momentum, again, going back to the model of focus on a developer lead model, really what we're focused on there is taking everything that Evan just talked about, which is real and very differentiated in terms of the real core tech in the back end and then combining that with a developer experience that makes it extremely easy to use and really, we think that's the magic in terms of what Fauna is bringing, so we got 10s of thousands of users and we got more signing up every day, coming to the service, we have an aggressive free plan there and then they can migrate up to higher paying plans as they consume over time. And the ecosystem, we're aggressively playing in the broader serverless ecosystem. So what we're looking at is as Evan mentioned, sometimes the databases is the last thing to change, it's also not necessarily the first thing that a developer starts from when they think about building their application or their website. And so we're plugging into the larger serverless ecosystem where people are making their choices about potentially their compute platform or maybe a development platform like I know you've talked to the folks over at JAMstack, sorry at Netlify and Purcell, who are big in the JAMstack community and providing really great workflows for new web and application developers on these platforms. And then at the compute layer, obviously, our Amazon, Google, Microsoft all have a serverless compute solution. CloudFlare is doing some really interesting things out at the edge. And so there's a variety of people up and down that stack, if you will, when people are thinking about this new generation of applications that we're plugging into to make sure that the Fauna is that the default database of choice. >> Wonderful, last question, Evan if I could, I love what I got somebody with your background. Talk about just so many different technologies maturing, give us a little bit as to some of the challenges you see serverless ecosystem, what's being attacked, what do we still need to work on? >> I mean, serverless is in the same place that Lamp was in the in the early '90s. We have the old conservatives ecosystem with the JAMstack players that Eric mentioned. We have closed proprietary ecosystems like the AWS stack or the Google Firebase stack. As to your point, Google has also invested in us so they're placing their bets widely. But it's seeing the same kind of criticism. That Lamp, the Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP, Perl, it's not mature, it's a toy, no one will ever use this for real business. We can't switch from like DV2 or mumps to MySQL, like no one is doing that. The movement and the momentum in serverless is real. And the challenge now is for all the vendors in collaboration with the community of developers to mature the tools as those the products and applications being built on the new more productive stack also mature, so we have to keep ahead of our audience and make sure we start delivering and this is partly why Eric is here. Those those mid market and ultimately enterprise requirements so that business is built on top of Fauna today, can grow like Twitter did from small to giant. >> Yeah, I'd add on to that, this is reminiscent for me, back in 2009 at Okta, we were one of the early ISVs that built on in relied 100% on AWS. At that time there was still, it was very commonplace for people racking and stacking their own boxes and using Colo and we used to have conversations about I wonder how long it's going to be before we exceed the cost of this AWS thing and we go and run our own data centers. And that would be laughable to even consider today, right, no one would ever even think about that. And I think serverless is in a similar situation where the consumption model is very attractive to get started, some people sitting there, is it going to be too expensive as I scale. And as Evan mentioned, when we think about if you fast forward to kind of what the innovation that we can anticipate both technologically and economically it's just going to be the default model that people are going to wonder why they used to spend all these time managing these machines, if they don't have to. >> Evan and Eric, thank you so much, is great to hear the progress that you've made and big supporters, the serverless ecosystem, so excited to watch the progress there. Thanks so much. >> Thanks Stu. >> Thanks for having us Stu. >> All right and I'm Stu Miniman. Stay tuned. Every week we are putting out the Cloud Native Insights. Appreciate. Thank you for watching. (bright upbeat music)

>>live from Atlanta, Georgia. It's the Q covering answerable best 2019. Brought to you by Red hat. >>Welcome back, everyone to the Cube. Live coverage in Atlanta, Georgia for answerable fest. This is Red Hats Event where all the practices come together. The community to talk about automation anywhere. John Kerry with my coast to Minutemen, our next two guests arrive. And Bergeron, principal community architect for answerable now Red Hat and Greg Dankers Berg, senior director, Community Ansel's. Well, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Thank you. >>Okay, So we were talking before camera that you guys had. This is a two day event. We're covering the Cube. You guys have an awful fast, but you got your community day yesterday. The day before the people came in early. The core community heard great things about it. Love to get an update. Could you share just what happened yesterday? And then we'll get in some of the community. Sure. >>We s o uh, for all of our answer professed for a while now we've started them with ah, community contributor conference. And the goal of that conference is to get together. Ah, lot of the people we work with online right people we see is IRC nicks or get hub handles rights to get them together in the same room. Ah, have them interact with, uh, with core members of our team. Uh, and that's where we really do, uh, make a lot of decisions about how we're gonna be going forward, get really direct feedback from some of our key contributors about the decisions were making The things were thinking about, uh, with the goal of, you know, involving our community deeply in a lot of decisions we make, that's >>a working session, meets social, get together. That's >>right, Several working sessions and then, you know, drinks afterward for those who want the drinks and just hang out time that >>way. Drinks and their last night was really good. I got the end of it. I missed the session, but >>they have the peaches, peaches, it on the >>table. That was good. But this is the dynamic community. This is one things we notice here. Not a seat open in the house on the keynote Skinny Ramon Lee, active participant base from this organic as well Be now going mainstream. How >>you >>guys handling it, how you guys ride in this way? Because certainly you certainly do. The communities which is great for feedback get from the community. But as you have the commercial eyes open sores and answerable, it's a tough task. >>Well, I'd like to think part of it is, I guess maybe it's not our first rodeo. Is that what we'd say? I mean, yeah, uh, for Ansel. I worked at ELASTICSEARCH, uh, doing community stuff. Before that, I worked at Red Hat. It was a fedora. Project leader, number five. And you were Fedora project Leader. What number was that? Number one depends >>on how you count, but >>you're the You're the one that got us to be able to call it having a federal project leader. So I sort of was number one. So we've been dealing with this stuff for a really long time. It's different in Anselm that, you know, unlike a lot of, you know, holds old school things like fedora. You know, a lot of this stuff is newer and part of the reason it's really important for us to get You know, some of these folks here to talk to us in person is that you know especially. And you saw my keynote this morning where they talked about we talked about modularity. Lot of these folks are really just focused on. They're one little bit and they don't always have is much time. People are working in lots of open source projects now, right, and it's hard to pay deep attention to every single little thing all the time. So this gives them a day of in case you missed it. Here's the deep, dark dive into everything that you know we're planning or thinking about, and they really are. You know, people who are managing those smaller parts all around answerable, really are some of our best feedback loops, right? Because they're people who probably wrote that model because they're using it every single day and their hard core Ansel users. But they also understand how to participate in community so we can get those people actually talking with the rest of us who a lot of us used to be so sad. Men's. I used to be a sis admin, lots of us. You know. A lot of our employees actually just got into wanting to work on Ansel because they loved using it so much of their jobs. And when you're not, actually, since admitting every day, you you lose a little bit of >>the front lines with the truth of what's around. Truth is right there >>and putting all these people together in room make sure that they all also, you know, when you have to look at someone in the eye and tell them news that they might not like you have a different level of empathy and you approach it a little bit differently than you may on the Internet. So, >>Robin So I lived in your keynote this morning. You talked about answerable. First commit was only back in 2012. So that simplicity of that modularity and the learnings from where open source had been in the past Yes, they're a little bit, you know, what could answerable do, being a relatively young project that it might not have been able to dio if it had a couple of decades of history? >>Maybe Greg should tell the story about the funk project >>way. There was a There was a project, a tread hat that we started in 2007 in a coffee shop in Chapel Hill, North Carolina is Ah, myself and Michael the Han and Seth the doll on entry likens Who still works with this with us? A danceable Ah, and we we put together Ah, an idea with all the same underpinnings, right? Ah, highly modular automation tool We debated at the time whether it should be based on SSL or SS H for funk. We chose SSL Ah, and you know, after watching that grow to a certain point and then stagnates and it being inside of red Hat where, you know, there were a lot of other business pressures, things like that. We learned a lot from that experience and we were able to take that experience. And then in 2012 there there's the open source community was a little different. Open source was more acceptable. Get Hubbell was becoming a common plat platform for open source project hosting. And so a lot of things came together in a short pier Time All that experience, although, >>and also market conditions, agenda market conditions in 2007 Cloud was sort of a weird thing that not really everyone was doing 2012 rolls around. Everyone has these cloud images and they need to figure out how to get something in it. Um, and it turns out that Hansel's a really great way to actually do that. And, you know, even if we had picked SS H back in the beginning, I don't know, you know, not have had time projects grow to a certain point. And I could point a lots of projects that were just It's a shame they were so ahead of their time. And because of that, you know, >>timing is everything with the key. I think now what I've always admired about the simplicity is automation requires that the abstract, the way, the complexities and so I think you bring a cloud that brings up more complexity, more use cases for some of the underlying paintings of the plumbing. And this is always gonna This is a moving train that's never going to stop. What was the feedback from the community this year around? As you guys get into some of these analytical capabilities, so the new features have a platform flair to it. It's a platform you guys announced answerable automation platform that implies that enables some value. >>You know, I >>think in >>a way. We've always been a platform, right, because platform is a set of small rules and then modules that attached to it. It's about how that grows, right? And, uh, traditionally, we've had a batteries included model where every module and plug in was built to go into answerable Boy, that got really big bright and >>we like to hear it. I don't even know how many I keep say, I'll >>say 2000. Then it'll be 3000 say 3000 >>something else, a lot of content. And it's, you know, in the beginning, it was I can't imagine this ever being more than 202 150 batteries included, and at some point, you know, it's like, Whoa, yeah, taking care of this and making sure it all works together all the time gets >>You guys have done a great You guys have done a great job with community, and one of the things that you met with Cloud is as more use cases come, scale becomes a big question, and there's real business benefits now, so open source has become part of the business. People talk about business, models will open source. You guys know that you've been part of that 28 years of history with Lennox. But now you're seeing Dev Ops, which is you'll go back to 78 2009 10 time frame The only the purest we're talking Dev ops. At that time, Infrastructures Co was being kicked around. We certainly been covering the cubes is 2010 on that? But now, in mainstream enterprise, it seems like the commercialization and operational izing of Dev ops is here. You guys have a proof point in your own community. People talk about culture, about relationships. We have one guest on time, but they're now friends with the other guy group dowels. So you stay. The collaboration is now becoming a big part of it because of the playbook because of the of these these instances. So talk about that dynamic of operational izing the Dev Ops movement for Enterprise. >>All right, so I remember Ah, an example at one of the first answer professed I ever went thio There were there were a few before I came on board. Ah, but it was I >>think it was >>the 1st 1 I came to when I was about to make the jump from my previous company, and I was just There is a visitor and a friend of the team, and there was an adman who talked to me and said, For the first time, I have this thing, this playbook, that I can write and that I can hand to my manager and say this is what we're going to D'oh! Right? And so there was this artifact that allowed for a bridging between different parts of the organization. That was the simplicity of that playbook that was human readable, that he could show to his boss or to someone else in the organ that they could agree on. And suddenly there was this sort of a document that was a mechanism for collaboration that everyone could understand buy into that hadn't really existed before. Answerable existed after me. That was one of the many, you know, flip of the light moments where I was like, Oh, wow, maybe we have something >>really big. There were plenty of other infrastructures, code things that you could hand to someone. But, you know, for a lot of people, it's like I don't speak that language right? That's why we like to say like Ansel sort of this universal automation language, right? Like everybody can read it. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. Uh, it's, you know, great for your exact example, right? I'm showing this to my manager and saying This is the order of operations and you don't have to be a genius to read it because it's really, really readable >>connecting system which connects people >>right. It's fascinating to May is there was this whole wave of enterprise collaboration tools that the enterprise would try to push down and force people to collaborate. But here is a technology tool that from the ground up, is getting people to do that collaboration. And they want to do it. And it's helping bury some >>of those walls. And it's interesting you mention that I'm sure that something like slack is a thing that falls into that category. And they've built around making sure that the 20 billion people inside a company all sign up until somebody in the I T departments like, What do you mean? These random people are just everyone's using it. No one saving it isn't secure, and they all freak out, and, um, well, I mean, this is sort of, you know, everybody tells her friend about Ansel and they go, Oh, right, Tool. That's gonna save the world Number 22 0 wait, actually, yeah. No, this is This actually is pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get started. >>Well, you know, sometimes the better mouse trap will always drive people to that solution. You guys have proven that organic. What's interesting to me is not only does it keep win on capabilities, it actually grew organically. And this connective tissue between different groups, >>right? Got it >>breaks down that hole silo mentality. And that's really where I tease been stuck? Yes. And as software becomes more prominent and data becomes more prominent, it's gonna just shift more power in the hands of developer and to the, uh, just add mons who are now being redeployed into being systems, architects or whatever they are. This transitional human rolls with automation, >>transformation architect >>Oh my God, that's a real title. I don't >>have it, but >>double my pay. I'll take it. >>So collections is one of the key things talked about when we talk about the Antelope Automation platform. Been hearing a lot discussion about how the partner ecosystems really stepping up even more than before. You know, 4600 plus contributors out there in community, But the partners stepping up Where do you see this going? Where? Well, collections really catalyze the next growth for your >>It's got to be the future for us that, you know, there there were a >>few >>key problems that we recognize that the collections was ultimately the the dissolution that we chose. Uh, you know, one key problem is that with the batteries included model that put a lot of pressure on vendors to conform to whatever our processes were, they had to get their batteries in tow. Are thing to be a part of the ecosystem. And there was a huge demand to be a part of our ecosystem. The partners would just sort of, you know, swallow hard and do what they needed to d'oh. But it really wasn't optimized Tol partners, right? So they might have different development processes. They might have different release cycles. They might have different testing on the back end. That would be, you know, more difficult to hook together collections, breaks a lot of that out and gives our partners a lot of freedom to innovate in their own time. Uh, >>release on their own cycle, the down cycle. We just released our new version of software, but you can't actually get the new Ansel modules that are updated for it until answerable releases is not always the thing that you know makes their product immediately useful. You know, you're a vendor, you really something new. You want people to start using it right away, not wait until, you know answerable comes around so >>and that new artifact also creates more network effects with the, you know, galaxy and automation hub. And you know, the new deployment options that we're gonna have available for that stuff. So it's, I think it's just leveling up, right? It's taking the same approach that's gotten us this foreign, just taking out to, uh, to another level. >>I certainly wouldn't consider it to be like that. Partners air separate part of our They're still definitely part of the community. It's just they have slightly different problems. And, you know, there were folks from all sorts of different companies who are partners in the contributor summit. Yesterday >>there were >>actually, you know, participating and you know, folks swapping stories and listening to each other and again being part of that feedback. >>Maybe just a little bit broader. You know, the other communities out there, I think of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, the Open Infrastructure Foundation. You're wearing your soul pin. I talk a little bit of our handsome How rentable plays across these other communities, which are, you know, very much mixture of the vendors and the end users. >>Well, I mean and will certainly had Sorry. Are you asking about how Ansel is relating to those other communities? Okay, Yeah, because I'm all about that. I mean, we certainly had a long standing sort of, ah fan base over in the open stacks slash open infrastructure foundation land. Most of the deployment tools for all of you know, all the different ways. So many ways to deploy open stack. A lot of them wound up settling on Ansel towards the end of time. You know, that community sort of matured, and, you know, there's a lot of periods of experimentation and, you know, that's one of the things is something's live. Something's didn't but the core parts of what you actually need to make a cloud or, you know, basically still there. Um And then we also have a ton of modules, actually unanswerable, that, you know, help people to operationalize all their open stack cloud stuff. Just like we have modules for AWS and Google Cloud and Azure and whoever else I'm leaving out this week as far as the C N. C f stuff goes, I mean again, we've seen a lot of you know how to get this thing up and running. Turns out Cooper Daddy's is not particularly easy to get up and running. It's even more complicated than a cloud sometimes, because it also assumes you've got a cloud of some sort already. And I like working on our thing. It's I can actually use it. It's pretty cool. Um, cube spray on. Then A lot of the other projects also have, you know, things that are related to Ansel. Now there's the answer. Will operator stuff? I don't know if you want to touch on that, but >>yeah, uh, we're working on. We know one of the big questions is ah, how do answerable, uh, and open shift slash kubernetes work together frequently and in sort of kubernetes land Open shift land. You want to keep his much as you can on the cluster. Lots of operations on the cluster. >>Sometimes you got >>to talk to things outside of the cluster, right? You got to set up some networking stuff, or you gotta go talk to an S three bucket. There's always something some storage thing. As much as you try to get things in a container land, there's all there's always legacy stuff. There's always new stuff, maybe edge stuff that might not all be part of your cluster. And so one of the things we're working on is making it easier to use answerable as part of your operator structure, to go and manage some of those things, using the operator framework that's already built into kubernetes and >>again, more complexity out there. >>Well, and and the thing is, we're great glue. Answerable is such great glue, and it's accessible to so many people and as the moon. As we move away from monolithic code bases to micro service's and vastly spread out code basis, it's not like the complexity goes away. The complexity simply moves to the relationship between the components and answerable. It's excellent glue for helping to manage those relationships between. >>Who doesn't like a glue layer >>everyone, if it's good and easy to understand, even better, >>the glue layers key guys, Thanks for coming on. Sharing your insights. Thank you so much for a quick minute to give a quick plug for the community. What's up? Stats updates. Quick projects Give a quick plug for what's going on the community real quick. >>You go first. >>We're big. We're 67 >>snow. It was number six. Number seven was kubernetes >>right. Number six out of 96 million projects on Get Hub. So lots of contributors. Lots of energy. >>Anytime. I tried to cite a stat, I find that I have to actually go and look it up. And I was about to sight again. >>So active, high, high numbers of people activity. What's that mean? You're running the plumbing, so obviously it's it's cloud on premise. Other updates. Projects of the contributor day. What's next, what's on the schedule. >>We're looking to put together our next contributor summit. We're hoping in Europe sometime in the spring, so we've got to get that on the plate. I don't know if we've announced the next answer will fast yet >>I know that happens tomorrow. So don't Don't really don't >>ruin that for everybody. >>Gradual ages on the great community. You guys done great. Work out in the open sores opened business. Open everything these days. Can't bet against open. >>But again, >>I wouldn't bet against open. >>We're here. Cube were open. Was sharing all the data here in Atlanta with the interviews. I'm John for his stupid men. Stayed with us for more after this short break.

(upbeat music) >> Announcer: Live from New York, it's the Cube, covering AWS Global Summit 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back, we're here in New York City at AWS Summit, one of the regional summits. Over 10,000 people in attendance. I'm Stu Miniman. My cohost is Corey Quinn and happen to welcome Slalom to the program for the first time. So, Slalom, like Amazon themselves, is based in Seattle, yet, also has a presence here in New York City. And representing that, to my right, we have Parul Patel, who is the managing director of middle market for Slalom, based here in New York City. >> That's right. >> World Trade Center, I believe that's where your office is. >> That's right. >> That's excellent. And Joe Berg is the managing director with Slalom based out of Seattle. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Yeah, thank you. >> All right, so, I did walk by the booth this morning. Build as a service is the big takeaway. But for our audience that might not be familiar with Slalom, give us the bumper sticker. >> Yeah, so, the way we like to tell the story is Slalom is a modern consulting company focused on strategy, technology and business transformation. As a part of the technology work that we've been doing for clients for the last couple decades, we started to see a shift in that really with the advent of cloud and companies like AWS. Really changing the technology landscape and what was really possible. You mentioned the build as a service tagline. That's really what the operating model that we built to serve those customers at the scale and at the velocity that they're starting to execute on their most mission critical digital initiatives today. So build as a service is really how we dig in and leverage platforms like AWS and provide value for customers. All right, so, Parul, one of the things we like about these regional summits is it's not just little bit rinse and repeat when you go to the environments-- >> Parul: Right. >> But they do speak to the local market. So when you look at that, some of the customers in the keynotes, you expect to see some financial services-- >> Parul: Right. >> Being here in New York City. A startup like Door Dash, where they were here. Give us your viewpoint, what is special or unique about the greater metropolitan region here in New York City that you see with your customers. >> Sure. So I think as we think about New York as a market, a lot of industries, a lot of companies that are based here. Certainly financial service is one of the big ones. But the buzz in the market is all about cloud. What are we going to do, how are we going to get into the cloud? The question we like to ask our customers is, why. Why do you want to be in the cloud? And what we're seeing, especially in financial services, is a lot of innovation. So as we think about what Joe does from a build as a service perspective, we have a client in financial services who they wanted to figure out, how do we generate more revenue? So we built them, with our build as a service capability, an AWS platform that helped them bring data together and figure out how to monetize that data across different business units and innovate. And so I think it's things like that that we ask that question of why. We can leverage cloud to really do that transformation. >> That's great. We always talk about IT can't be the organization of no. Or, as a friend of mine, Alan Cohen, said, that there's the triangle of no and slow and we need to move up to the top, which is go. >> Right. >> So how does cloud help with that move forward. That love story you talk about, how do I monetize data, how do I move that forward. There's been that promise of that but how do I turn it from a lofty goal into actual reality? >> Yeah, maybe Joe, I'll let you answer that with a little bit of how we bring it to life with our build as a service. >> Honestly, we look at cloud, it's not just an enabler of business today. It's almost fueling business today. And the reality is, the customer consumer demand out there for digital experiences is exponentially growing, right? Organizations are trying to transform themselves into these modern technology companies. Doesn't matter what industry, financial services-- >> Parul: That's right. >> Or otherwise, they're really trying to transform themselves. And cloud is really allowing them to get out of the procurement game, out of the infrastructure game, out of the data center game and really start to lean into, how do I just make use of this in a meaningful way that's going to translate into those revenue streams that Parul talked about. >> It's deceptively complex. Sorry, it's deceptively simple, I suppose, to take a look at what cloud represents, of, okay, now whatever you want instead of buying it, waiting six weeks for it to show up, if you're lucky, and then racking it. Suddenly, it's an API call away. The technology piece is interesting but how does that impact the cultural change, the processes, the governance story about it? The cost control, speaking as a cloud economist, how do you find that this is revolutionizing these companies as they are migrating into this brave new world and transforming? >> Joe: Yeah. >> When I think about cloud, so to me, it isn't a technology play at all across a business. It's about changing your business that starts with changing your mindset. So, being in the cloud, and leveraging cloud, is about how do I do things different? And that means, I'm looking at my fundamental operating model. I'm looking at who my customers are and then changing the mindset of my people. And culturally, we're going to become faster, we're going to iterate a lot more. And having things like cloud, which I can spin up instances at the click of a button, makes it easier for me to do that. But it comes with, I've got to think about my people, right? And I always tell our clients, explain to your people why this is important to them and why it's important to the business because they're going to be able to learn new skills. They're going to be able to do more and become more marketable out there. And so, to me it's a company transformation, not necessarily a technology play at all. >> Yeah, and I'll just maybe piggyback on the back of that. When you take your strategy and you start to think about translating how we're going to do things in a digital business environment and you start to think about the demands that consumer base has on how fast you release features, how quickly you are procuring new experiences for them. It is absolutely about an operating model that can translate strategy and do initiative and budgeting planning into execution very quickly. It's also, then, about when they move into the actual execution. IT organizations were not built to build technology products. They were there to build technology projects. And the confluence of those events of this becoming mission critical and part of their external facing strategy has really required that transformation and cultural shift as well, in terms of how do we build things very fastly and quickly-- >> Parul: That's right. >> Get them out to market in a iterative way that has impact and benefit and value to consumer. And I think that is the holistic complexity that organizations are dealing with, with something that is making technology very simple but the actual then motion of getting that technology to be useful is complex. >> Yeah, and it becomes very challenging to get to a point of people who are used to the old way of doing things. they're seeing the skillset that's required continue to evolve. And it's very challenging for a large-scale company to say, okay, I'm going to go out this week and hire 2,000 new people who are all up to speed on a cloud provider. >> Parul: Yeah. >> That's something that's almost impossible for people to do. So there has to be a bridge. There has to be a story that isn't, well, we're going to replace you with a younger version. >> Right. >> There has to be something that opens a door and a way to get there. And doing that both culturally and on an individual level seems like it's something a lot of companies are struggling with right now. Is that something you're seeing in your customer base? >> Absolutely. I love that question because it gives me an invitation to talk about build as a service. >> That's right. >> And build as a service, we're playing on the as a service language that companies like AWS establish, right? And the idea about build as a service is it's instantly available. You've got idea, you need to go start executing quickly. Maybe competitor A has already built an experience out there that is surpassing you in the marketplace. You don't time to think about, how do I pull all these things together? How do I upskill my resources in terms of skillsets and capabilities to then get to the point where I can execute? I need to do that now. But, I'm also on this journey of transforming my internal culture and my people and my skillsets. So how do I get a jumpstart in that. We have built a model to help our customers instantly tap into that. And these multidisciplinary teams that really holistically are bringing solution to customer, but we're also doing this in what we call a co-creation model. How do we help them learn and adopt those same principles that are going to help them build modern technology, software and products when we're gone and they're becoming self-dependent. And I think that is part of the journey of how you can leverage a company like Slalom. >> And that's why I would add, Joe, as we think about our offering, it is about getting to velocity in the software engineering space in the cloud. But this co-creation concept, I think, is one that we've heard from our clients that not a lot of people do. It's easy for partners to come in and say, here, we'll just do it for you. And our model is, we want to do it with you to the point where, when you have an agile team, we've got a mixed team of Slalom team members and client team members where we're helping the client team members learn along the way because these are all new technologies that are evolving so fast that it's hard to keep up, for anyone. >> It give me hope to hear what you're saying here, 'cause we all have the scars of listing through. It's like, okay I did a big rollout. Oh how'd it go? Well, you know, it was six to 12 months later than we thought and we all did the corporate mandated training. Yet, a month later, we're all lookin' at each other sayin, oh my gosh, how do we deal with what we have? And of course, it is no longer just waterfall and throw things over there. It is constantly changing. Therefore, co-creation is a term we love-- >> Joe: Yeah. >> And help us walk through. How long is an engagement like this? How much is there the ramp up? And then, as a service, so I'm assuming there is maintenance and you're staying engaged as after we are through some of those milestones. >> Sure, sure. Well, I always kind of start with, we moved from, as I said earlier, a project mindset into a product mindset. So each of these we consider its own piece of software. And product really starts way out here on the ideation site. So Parul talks a lot with customers about the strategy of what new revenue streams you need be thinking about. how do you engage with experiences? Once we move into this I know what I want to build. Now I just don't know how I'm going to get there to the finish line, as you were talking about earlier, Stu. That's really where we enter in with this build as a service model. And we start with a short four to six week discovery phase. So we can start to establish the foundation of what we're going to build together with our customers. That's where co-creation starts, right? What are other priorities? What are the features? How do we do agile together, which is usually a term companies use but it's not a term they know how to use, or a motion they know how to exercise well with. And so, how do we establish those things that we're going to create together? And then we scale into what we would call an MVP release cycle. Our whole idea is that we help you get to an MVP. We help you get to more viable product and then you start to become the owners of those future releases. That's that co-creation piece, where we can bring you alongside us, establish culture, actually create business value by actually getting something out the door. And then, you start to own it yourself. Depending on the competency and the abilities of the customers we work with, that can vary in terms of when those transitions happen. But we look at that as typically anywhere from a 10 to 14 week exercise to get that first iteration out. And then we start to iterate faster than that. >> Are most of your customers, are they just dealing with the people that they have in house? Or are they having to bring in new people to help with that transition along the way? I'm assuming it's a bit of a mix. >> I think it is a bit of a mixed bag and I think one of the keys, what I like about our philosophy, is that, we're all about how do we get you working software as quickly as possible. While we can do a four to six week discovery, we have client in a startup in the healthcare space, where we got them through discovery within four weeks. We do two week sprints. After three sprints, we had software up and running. And so, within 10 weeks, we said, here's what you need, and here's some working software. That I think, in a lot of ways, people say, hey, we're agile, we work fast. People typically are not delivering software in 10 weeks. And that to me, is the differentiator for the way we approach our problems, is we want to get to that working software as fast as possible. >> Right, at some point it almost feels like agile stopped meaning agility and started meaning we have a lot of meetings every morning. >> Parul: Yes. >> Joe: That's right. >> And that doesn't work. >> Yeah. >> That's right. That's a great way to say it, yeah. >> All right, a lot of customers here. Tell us what are some of the top things you're hearing from people. What bring them to your booth? What are some of those things that kind of set off the, oh this is a good fit for working with Slalom. >> Sure, well, I get asked all the time, what industries do you guys work in? Where is this most relevant, especially when you're talking about build as a service. And the reality is, it just slices horizontally right through every industry. Because, I don't know of an industry, whether it be healthcare, financial services, retail, manufacturing, I don't know of one that isn't on that journey. They're at different places on that journey, and the adoption curve, but usually we seem them coming. I think there's a stat out there that says 80% of the enterprise customers have adopted cloud. But only about 10% of the work clothes are on cloud, right? >> Parul: That's right. >> So they're coming to us with saying, hey we know we're on this journey of moving to the cloud, but we're stuck in really getting the most value out of the cloud and how can you help us accelerate the value that we believe is there with a platform like AWS? And that's where we're really entering in and finding those critical experiences that are going to create value, not only internally in terms of momentum, but externally in terms of their business. >> Yeah. And I would say that as we think about when companies look at us and why they picked Slalom as an organization to work with, one of the key differentiators is we like to work with people that we enjoy working with. So we truly want to partner with our clients and so companies say, you know what? We want people that we enjoy working with. we want people that are going to challenge us and be innovative. And that's what you're going to get. When you get Slalom, if you're lookin' for someone to be innovative and challenging a little bit, we're probably not the best fit for your company, right? That's just being honest out there. But I think the other piece of it is that we want to accelerate your journey and enable you to do it. So, we're not in the business. While we have long-term capabilities, like as a service, etc, we're not in the business of taking over your business or being in the outsourcing space. And so, our mindset is all about how do we make you better? And help you realize your vision? And I think that's why we work across a lot of different industries and a lot of different types of companies. >> Joe and Perul, really appreciate you helping share how you're helping customers through that journey, through great adoption in the cloud. Thanks for sharin' and all the updates on Slalom. >> Thank for having us! >> Yeah, thanks for havin' us. >> All right. for Corey Quinn, >> Take care. >> I'm Stu Minimann. We'll be back here with lots more coverage from AWS Summit in New York City. Thanks for watchin' the Cube. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Google Cloud Next '19. Brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey welcome back everyone. It's theCUBE's live coverage here in San Francisco in Moscone South. We're on the ground floor here at Google Next, Google's Cloud conference. I'm chatting with Stu Miniman; Dave Vellante's also hosting. He's out there getting stories. Our next two guests: Dana Berg, Chief Operating Officer of SADA and Chris Lehman, Head of Engineering for SADA. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. Thanks for joining us. We're here on the ground floor. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> This is exciting. I feel like a movie star right here. >> It's game day here. All the tech athletes are out, Dave. If you look at the show, look at the demographics, hardcore developers, lot of IT, leaders also here, cloud architects, a lot of people trying to figure it out. We heard the keynote. Google is bringing a lot to the table. So what's new with you guys? You guys recently sold your Microsoft business, going all-in on Google. Talk about that relationship. >> We are. This is a brand new day for SADA. The energy around this place, where we are in the market, and where we are with the expanded attendance here has actually reaffirmed our business strategy to go all-in with Google. I don't know if you are aware but SADA has been around for almost 20 years. Historically have always been leaders in bringing people to the cloud even before there was really much of a cloud. We were a you know a pilot partner within Microsoft and Google and had a great thriving Microsoft business but an even bigger Google business and you know, we looked at the tea leaves, we looked at where we wanted to be, and aligned with a company that shared our mission and values and it was a clear choice. We chose Google. We made a very specific and deliberate act to sell off our Microsoft business so that we could take the horsepower of all of our engineering staff and apply them to Google. >> It's interesting you know, we've been around for 10 years doing theCUBE, go to a lot of events, I mean Dave Vellante, Stu, and I have been around for 30 years covering the IT, you guys 20 years. You guys have seen many ways of innovation come and go. Now you're going all in on Google. What is it about this wave right now that made that decision? What do you guys see? You're seeing something early here. Expand on that. Give us some color commentary because there's a wave here, right? A lot of people try. It's a combination of things. I mean, we saw the client-server thing. We saw that movement. Also the internet, we saw the web, mobile, now it's cloud. What's the big wave? What are you guys riding? >> I think there's a couple of things and I think it's unique to, philosophically, how we think of our real special relationship with Google. There is a momentum, right, and not to quote like a Bernie Sanders, but, seems like there's a revolution going on here, right, and, you know, I think, you know, what we see when we look around and we hear conversations and even with our customers, the way that we're all winning together is because we're winning the hearts and minds of the people inside of our customer base that are actually the ones responsible for inventing and the ones responsible for building, so when we're in board rooms and we're selling and along with Google, we're talking with developers, we're talking with designers, we're talking about people that are actually driving the vision for these business applications. We're not always talking to the CIO down like some of our other competitors seems to have only been able to sell that way. We're talking about the people responsible for not only constructing it but maintaining it. So that revolution is there. These folks are bubbling that up and they're seeing the real value inside of Google and what is that value from our point of view, and why did we make such a bold statement just to stick with Google is, and we saw Thomas today echo this, I think there's very few cloud providers that are bold enough to actually lead with the fact that we want our customers to have full choice whether you're using GCP or not. We want to build, architect, and manufacture a product offering that allows you to keep your stuff in your data centers, move your stuff to AWS. That power of choice is really not like what we've never heard anywhere else. >> And then on top of that, too, you got an application renaissance, right? A whole new way of coding, infrastructure that's programmable and going away, I mean if you think about what that does to the existing infrastructures, they can now mix and match and rearchitect everything from scratch and accelerate the app movement. >> Well, that's absolutely true, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that there are managed services in the cloud which makes it dramatically easier to build applications of course, so there's no question about that. Some of the offerings on GCP are particularly attractive for our clients, particularly the managed Kubernetes service. That's where we're seeing perhaps most of the interest that we're seeing, like that's a very common theme. Also the ML stack is an area that our customers are very interested in. >> Chris, can you bring us in some of those customer environments, you know, one of the things you hear, you know, most customers, it's, "I've got my application portfolio." Modernizing that is pretty challenging. There are some things that are kind of easy, some things that take a lot more work, but, you know, migration is one of those things that makes most people that have been in IT a while cringe because there's always the devil in the details and something goes wrong once you've got 95 percent done. What are you seeing, what's working, what's not working, how's the role of data changing, and all of that? >> I think migrations are usually more complex than they at first appear and so even with best intentions thinking that customers can just move their workloads seamlessly to the cloud have actually in practice been more challenging. So some of the areas that we find challenges are around data migration, especially in the context of zero downtime. That's always more difficult than with applications. So that's definitely an area that were we're spending a lot of time working with our customers to deliver. >> Just to add to that, I have to keep reminding myself of the name, but obviously the Anthos announcement today sounds incredibly intriguing as a lower barrier of effort to actually migrate. Our customers have been trying to really absorb and take a hold of Kubernetes and can it containerize methods for a long time. Some are having a harder time doing it than others. I think Anthos promises to make that endeavor much, much easier, and I think about as we leave here this week and we go back and we reeducate our own engineering teams as well as our customers, I think we might see some highly accelerated project timelines go from here down to here. >> And the demo that Jennifer Lynn did was pretty impressive. I mean, running inside of containers, whether it's VMs, and then having service patches on the horizon coming to the table is going to change the implementation delivery piece too in a massive way. I mean, you've got-- >> Oh, absolutely. >> Code, build, run on the cloud side, but this this kind of changes the equation on your end. Can you guys share the insight into that equation, because Google's clearly posturing to be partner friendly. You guys are a big partner now. You're going all-in. This is an interesting dynamic because you can focus on solving customers' problems. All this heavy lifting kind of goes away. Talk about the impact to you as a partner when you look at Anthem, Anthem migrate in particular, some of these migration challenges with containers and Kubernetes seems like it's a perfect storm right now to kind of jump in and do more, faster. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's certainly very interesting. Well, we'll want to take a really hard look at it. I mean, a very, very cool announcement. Moving to containers in the source prior to the migration obviously solves a lot of challenges so for that reason, it's definitely a move forward. >> And I think... You know, we always talk about, in this industry, the acceleration for consumption, but really that's a poor way of saying... Probably what we should be saying is an acceleration of value. So we're constantly in this battle to try and deliver value to our customers faster. That's what our customers want, right, and in essence we see Anthos as being potentially a big game-changer there so that, you know, our CIOs that we're talking with can show to their various stakeholders that they are making very good proactive moves into the cloud at lower-caught barriers of entry, right? >> Yeah. So, you brought up the the ML piece of Google. Wondering if you could help share a little bit on that. When I think back two years ago, you know, data was really at the core of what a lot of what Google was talking about. I was actually surprised not to hear a lot of it on the main stage this morning, but you know, AI, ML, what are you doing, what are your customers doing, does Google have leadership in the space? >> Google certainly has leadership in the space. Our customers, I think, relatively universally, think that their ML stack is the strongest among the competitors, but I think in practice what we're finding is there's a lot more urgency as far as just literal data migrations off of their data centers into the cloud, and I foresee a lot more AI and ML work as more move in. >> John: Yeah. >> So you might, in our booth here, not to give a plug, but we've got a booth down at the end with a full-fledged racing car, just to talk about the art of the possible with AI and ML. Our engineering teams in the race teams that we sponsor, they're there, the driver's there, you should go down and talk to 'em. We've taken all the race telemetry data for the last six months and all of his races and practices, we've aggregated that data all into GCP, run AI and ML algorithms on it to provide his racing team some very predictive ways that he can get better and that team can get better, and so I'd invite just anybody that wants to go there and take a look at, even if you're in banking, or if you're in retail, or if you're in health care, take a look at some of how that was done, because it's a very, very powerful way, to answer your question, head and shoulders down why Google is actually accelerating and exceeding in AI. >> And one of the things that Thomas Kurian showed onstage was the recent Hack-a-Thon they had with the college students with the NCAA data of the game that just finished, and throughout that experience, this is a core theme of GCP, and now Anthos, which is getting data in and using it easily, and scaling at a scale level that seems unprecedented. So this team seems to be the application... The new differentiator. >> I think it is. I think that announcement, obviously the big three takeaways for us, certainly, scale, unmatched. Certainly speed and migration with Anthos. If I could highlight one other, I was incredibly pleased with, well I've been pleased since Thomas' arrival in general by bringing an enterprise class strategy within sight of Google that I think are going to respond well to our enterprise customers, and part of enterprise class is also making sure that their partner community has amazing enhancement programs that really incentivize those partners that are actually in the full managed services space from cradle to grave, lifetime customer value. So we're very excited about even further announcements this week that no doubt have been inspired by Thomas to try and really take advantage of their partner community that are in the business of cradle to grave support of customers. >> You feel comfortable with Thomas. He's taught a lot of customers, he knows the enterprise. >> We've had an opportunity to meet with him. We've had some shared customers that have had a great privilege of getting to know him and support us and collectively them. >> John: He knows the partner equation pretty well, and the enterprise. >> Without a doubt. >> It's about partnering, because there's a monetization, the shared go to markets together. Talk about the importance of that and what's it like to be a partner. >> Yeah, without a doubt, again, you know, his embrace of the open-source community that you saw today, really taking advantage of highlighting partner value is wonderful, but I think Thomas, above anything else, knows that Google needs to scale. They need to scale, and then they have to have breadth and they have to have depth, and, you know, to get to where Google needs to be over the course of the next two, three years, it's wonderful, it's refreshing, it's 100% accurate that Google knows and Thomas knows that the path to do that is via partners; partners that share in Google's vision, that are 100% aligned to the same things that Google is aligned with, and I think that's why I'm so thankful to be at SADA, large in part, because all of the things that we care about in terms of our customer success as well as Google's success, we all share that, so it's a great trifecta. >> It's a ground-floor opportunity. Congratulations. Guys, talk about your business. What's going on? You've got some new offices I heard you opened up. What's going on in the state of the business? Obviously the Google focus you're excited about obviously. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> There, at the beginning, I called Google the dark horse. I think with the tech that they have and the renewed focus on the enterprise, building on what Diane Greene had put foundationally, Thomas is meeting with hundreds of customers. He's so busy he doesn't have time to come on theCUBE, but he'll come on soon, but he's focused. This is now a great opportunity. Talk about your business. What's the state of the union there? Give an update. >> I can take that one if you don't mind. >> Go ahead. >> You can add poetic color if you want. (laughing) Yeah, so as I said, we're entering a new journey for SADA in light of renewed focus, renewed conviction to Google. We are investing more than we ever have into the common belief that Google is the one to beat in terms of momentum, drive, and ultimately winning the hearts and the minds of who we've talked about. So, over the last four months, we've opened five new offices in New York, Austin, Chicago, Denver. Our headquarters is in Los Angeles, and just recently, we just opened a brand new office in Toronto, so we can really help our Canadian customers really see the the same type of white-glove treatment we provide those customers in the States and so that's why, well, I wasn't earlier, but I'm walking around with a Canadian flag. We're very excited about the presence that we're going to have in Canada >> Its "Toronno." I always blow and I call it "Toron-to," being the American that I am. It's "Toronno." >> Dana: Glad you said it right. Good. >> Now, on the engineering side, so you guys are on the front lines as also a sales, development, there's also customer relationship, engineering side, so I'm sure you guys are hiring. There's some hard problems to solve out there. Can you guys share some color commentary on the type of solutions you guys are doing? What's the heavy? What solutions are you solving, problems that you're solving for customers, what are the key things that you got going on? >> Yeah. >> Well, a lot of cloud migrations, a lot of web and application development, custom development, and data pipelines. I'd say those are really the three key focus areas that we're working on at the moment. >> One other thing, too: so... we believe that we want 100% customer retention, always, and that goes above and beyond an implementation. So the other big area of investments that we're making is in a whole revamped technical account management team, so for those of our GCP customers that have had the privilege, we've had the privilege of working with and for, we are building out a team of individuals that will, well beyond the project, stay with that customer, work with them weekly, monthly, quarterly, and try to always find ways to expand and move workloads into the cloud. We think that provides stickiness. We think that provides ultimate value to try and help our customers identify where else they can take full advantage of the cloud, and it's a fairly new program, and large in part I just want to thank Thomas and the partner team for new programs that are coming out to help us so that we can actually reinvest in things that go you know throughout the lifecycle of the customer. So, very, very good stuff. >> Dana, Chris, thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. We'll check out your booth, the car's there, with the data. Bring that data exhaust to the table, pun intended. >> Yes. >> Analyzing with Google Cloud, Anthos. Good commentary. Thanks for sharing. >> Really appreciate being on board. Thanks for having us. >> Alright, great. CUBE coverage here live on the floor in San Francisco. Google Next 2019. This is Google's cloud conference. Customers are here. A lot of developers. More action, live on the day one of three days of coverage after this short break. Stay with us. (theCUBE Theme)

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to San Francisco, everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante and I'm with my cohost, Stu Minman, Lisa Martin is also here. John Furrier'll be up tomorrow. This is day one of IBM Think. Kind of the pregame, Stu. The festivities kick off tomorrow, they're building out the Solutions Center, they got Howard Street takeover. We're in Moscone North, stop by and see us. Daniel Berg is here. He's a distinguished engineer with IBM Cloud Kubernetes service IBM, of course. Dan, great to see you again. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Thanks for coming on. So everybody's got a Kubernetes story these days. What's IBM's Kubernetes story? >> So, IBM has taken a big bet on Kubernetes, two, two and a half years ago. Never really looked back, it's our primary foundation for our platform services. And we have two key distributions for the Kubernetes service, we have IBM Cloud Private, which is a software distribution for on premises, set up your own private cloud based on Kubernetes, behind your firewall. And then we have a manage service in the public cloud. So you're moving to public cloud, doing cloud native, grab an API, CLI, you get a cluster. >> So a lot of people think Kubernetes, oh, I can be able to move it anywhere, private cloud, public cloud. But there are other benefits of just, say, for instance, a private cloud. Maybe explain those. >> Yeah, I mean the biggest benefit for us is that we're able to give you the IBM cloud experience and IBM cloud content, so IBM content, middleware, things that you've been using for a decade. We've modernized it, put it in containers, install it and manage it on Kubernetes. The nice thing is that content, you can bring on premises where it's needed the most, and run it in ICP, IBM Cloud Private, and also take that and run it in our public cloud, as you migrate and move those workloads into the public sector. >> Dan, one of the things we've been watching is, you talk about a hybrid cloud or a multi-cloud world. There's a lot of pieces and it can be complicated. >> Yes. >> Now, Kubernetes itself, not exactly the simplest solution out there, but when you can deliver it as a service, but you can take a certain piece of your environment and IBM helps to simplify that. Maybe explain what it simplifies and, you know, what still are some of the hard places that we have to play at in these environments? >> Yeah, definitely. So, I mean, the IBM cloud Kubernetes service, we, anyone that has dealt with Kubernetes knows it's easy to install , pretty easy to set up, and basically easy to get started. It's the day two, it's the operations, it's the long pull. It's doing all the updates, the maintenance, the security patches, the securing it. Making it highly available, that's hard. And that's hard over time, and it takes a lot of resources. So IKS is a service that, we do that. Let the experts do it, is basically what we tell people. We are experts at managing Kubernetes. We do this as our day job, 24/7, right? Literally, because we manage a 24/7 service. So we operate it 24/7 and we keep it updated. That allows our customers to focus on their business problem. Focus on their app, not building the platform. But there are still some complexities, because you have, you don't have just one cluster. If you only had one cluster, it'd be no big deal. I probably wouldn't have a job. But you have many clusters. You've got development clusters, you've got test clusters. But if you're doing a global service, you've got many clusters throughout the world. Highly available clusters. You put clusters in various data centers for keeping your data in one location, right? So you've got many clusters, so it gets complicated to manage all of those clusters. So, with Kubernetes service we provide all the capabilities to manage and set up and secure your cluster, but then the content, like, moving and configuring things across all those clusters, becomes complicated. And that's where we released recently a new product called Multicloud Manager. >> Tell us, you know, tell us more. (laughter) >> I thought you were going to ask a question. (laughs) So, Multicloud Manager, what it basically does is it provides a control plane that allows you to manage, and today it manages resources, Kubernetes resources, across many different clouds, across many different cloud platforms. So it works with our Cloud Private, which runs on premises, but it also works with our public cloud, IKS. And it can work with other cloud providers, it can work with Amazon, it can work with Google, it can work with Azure. And it works with OpenShift, as well, obviously. So those, having that one tool, then, gives you the mechanism to drive consistency of the resources across all of those distribution of Kubernetes clusters that you have. And another big thing that it does, and it helps with, is security compliance. So it has ability to define security postures that you need to have across your clusters, and then apply it and run it in both a check mode, to see is that policy, or, provided across all your clusters, and where do you have gaps? And then it also has a setting to do enforcement. So, if it's not there, it'll make it there, it'll make it so. >> So, IBM hides all that complexity from the customer. >> Yes. >> But I'm curious as to what the conversations are like, Dan, with the customer. In other words, you're basically figuring out how to do it. Customer knows what it's doing. Do you ever get into a situation, no, of course, at scale you wan consistency and standards. So, do you ever get into a situation where a customer says, well, I'd like you to do it this way, and what's that conversation like? >> Yeah, so that's where, and that's where it's nice having multiple distributions, right? So having, so in our public cloud with IKS, having variations and unique configurations for each and every customer, I don't, we don't do that, right? It's a service. And services scale and provide value by doing consistency, right? So we consistently set up and manage clusters, thousands of, tens of thousands of clusters that way. But if you need something that's highly, highly specific to a given use case or you have differences in your infrastructure that you need to have more flexibility, that's where IBM Cloud Private comes in. And we do have customers like, especially on premises, right? On premises, those ae unique beasts, right? The infrastructure, the hardware, the network. You got to have a custom configuration. So coupling our ICP production with global services team, they can come in and they can customize it to suit any customer's needs. >> So, Dan, you talked about living in multiple environments, whether that be public cloud, your private cloud, you also mentioned Red Hat, I think, in there. Tell us where customers are today with OpenShift, where that fits, and give as a little bit compare contrast as to what IBM's doing today. >> Yeah, definitely. So, and it's interesting, watching what's hapepening in the industry, because there's the whole push to cloud, and everybody knows they want to get there, but trying to get there all in one fell swoop with all the workloads that you have on premises is quite complicated and difficult and almost impossible to do on day one. So, the story is all about how do I modernize what I have today, on premises? And how does IBM help with that in my journey to move into public cloud? And that's where, I know it's a buzzword, but hybrid cloud comes in. But for me, the hybrid cloud, and what our customers are saying, is that I want to modernize what I have, so give me a platform there. And ICP, IBM Cloud Private, and OpenShift are the two best products in the market, bar none, that provide that experience there. And our ICP runs on top of OpenShift, so for those customers that have already been invested in the OpenShift space, you still get the value of IBM's content and integrated monitoring, integrated logging, right there in that product space, on the platform for which they're already standardized. >> How do you define best? What are the attributes of high quality and best? >> So, I guess best is (laughs) kind of difficult to really define. But for us it's all about ensuring that we have a solid platform, a solid strategy and technology set that we're building our offerings from. And we gain a lot of experience from our public cloud. Because we built and standardized on Kubernetes, we provide Kubernetes service, and we do that at scale and secure as well as highly available. We take a lot of those same lessons, because we have hundreds of customers running on it at scale. We take those lessons and we help evolve our private cloud offering as well. So we bring those down, we provide a very tuned somewhat customizable, but, highly tuned supporting IBM content in that environment. So when I say best, it is definitely the best platform for running IBM content, right? It's tuned for running IBM content, bare none. >> Okay, and my other question is, you know, you'd mentioned hybrid, said it was a buzzword, okay, fine. But at least we know what hybrid is. You got resources on pram, you've got resources in the public cloud, multi cloud is the other buzzword. Sometimes we worry that companies that are, vendors like yourselves going after this multi cloud opportunity, which is, you know, clearly a large opportunity and one that's needed, because I want a consistent way of managing at scale. But there seems to be a lot of different initiatives within organizations. There might be different lines of business, there might be, you know, international people. Are you seeing any hope or sense that the customer constituents are getting together? The different constituents saying, hey, this is the strategy that we want to use to manage all of our clouds. Or is sort of, you know, fiefdoms that are popping up? What do you see there? >> Yeah, so it's funny, when you do go into a large organization, a large enterprise. You're having a conversation, they've made a choice down one path using, let's say, IKS as an example. But then you realize you're having another conversation with another group that hasn't made any choices. I don't think that within an organization, within a large enterprise, coming together and saying we're all going to go down one path with one tool to rule them all. I just don't, I just don't see it, right? And also, even just going down the path of saying, I'm only going to stick and use one cloud vendor. That's also somewhat a thing of the past, you don't see that anymore, at least where customers are moving, so within an organization, yes, you still have the lines of businesses, and they might have different tools and they might decide on different tools and how they manage their environments. But the thing that customers do need to look at, and what they do need to standardize across an enterprise, is just some of the core tenets and the core technologies. So, for example, if they're moving the cloud, whether it's one premises or off premises, what's the platform that you're going to build to so you have portability? It's got to be Kubernetes, right? That is a decision that as an organization, as an enterprise, you've got to agree on as you move forward. Because, whether you use the same provider or the same set of tools doesn't matter as much. It'd be nice. But you got to have some agreement on the core technologies and platforms. >> Because ultimately you can get there. It might be a little harder, but still, if you're core Kubernetes, it's not, it's going to be easier than different flavors of UNIOS, for example. (laughs) >> There's path, >> there's at least a path that as they mature and as they simplify and they converge, they can do that seamlessly. >> Dan, back to the cloud monitoring tool that IBM has. Who's the constituency, who uses that? And give us a little bit of color inside, you know, kind of the administrator, developer, you know cloud architect, you know, what do you see? >> Well, yeah, so that's a great one. The cloud monitoring, IBM cloud monitoring provides visibility into your workloads within your environment. And that's not specific to just Kubernetes, either, right? There's Kubernetes, but then there's VMs and bare metal workloads, more traditional workloads that the monitoring service works just fine. The, our developers, have to have a monitoring solution. You can't build a cloud native solution without monitoring, right? Monitoring and log, they, it's like peanut butter and jelly. You got to have 'em. And if you're building a cloud native solution, you're building Kubernetes, you're dealing with multiple clusters, like I said earlier. Hundreds, if not thousands, of workloads. You can't log into each one of 'em. You need, you need a system where you can monitor and log. So the monitoring service is necessary here for simple developers to understand what's happening in their environment. And our partnership STEG provides us with a very rich monitoring solution, which we've done extensive integration in IBM cloud to make it simple for even developers. They don't have to go and install and set up STEG themselves. All they do is a simple I want a new instance. Directly in the IBM cloud catalog they get a new instance of STEG and it gets installed into their cluster and they're off and running. Simple as that. >> And we're talking, we're talking visibility on things like performance management, security? >> Network. >> Problem, change management. >> Yes, yes, absolutely. So you get, and obviously that's all configurable, but what's nice with STEG and one of the reasons I like it, especially as a developer, as soon as you turn it on for one of your clusters, there's so much rich data that's available there, just out of the box. And they support other projects too and provide integration, deep integration, like the Istio project, for example. Great little project for service mesh. STEG supports that out of the box as well. Built in polling metrics, dashboards built specifically for Istio, and I don't have to do anything as a developer. I just turn it on, and then I start watching. (laughs) Seeing all the metrics coming. >> So it's kind of day zero here at IBM Think. Dan, what are some of the things that you're hoping to accomplish this week? I know you've got a bunch of customer meetings. Some of the things you're excited about. >> Yeah, definitely, lots of sessions, great sessions. But it is the customer meetings I'm most excited about. I have a large number of 'em. I want to hear what they're doing, right? I want to understand a little bit better what they would like us to do, and moving forward, how can we help them? How can we help accelerate their adoption of cloud? Get on the cloud native, and obviously, I'm here to talk Kubernetes and containers, so the more I get to talk about that, the happier I'm going to be. >> Well, it's a hot space. We're bringing you theCUBE inside of our little container here. Dan Berg, thanks very much for coming on today. >> Thank you. >> All right, Dave Vellante for Stu Miniman. You're watching theCUBE from IBM Think, day one. We'll be right back right after this short break. (light music)

[Music] Andre one of the things that have come up is your relation with Russia as we talked about so I have to ask you a direct question do you to work with sanctioned Russian entities or Russian companies shown we and c5 we do not work with any company that's sanctioned from any country including Russia and the same applies to me we take sanctions very very seriously the one thing you don't mess with is US sanctions which has application worldwide and so you always have to stay absolutely on the right side of the law when it comes to sanctions so nothing nothing that's something that's connection nets are trying to make they're also the other connection is a guy named Victor Vail Selberg Viktor Vekselberg Vekselberg to go with the Russian names as people know what is your relationship with Viktor Vekselberg so victim Viktor Vekselberg is a is a very well known Russian businessman he's perhaps one of the best known Russian businessman in the West because he also lived in the US for a period of time it's a very well-known personality in in in Europe he's a donor for example to the Clinton Foundation and he has aggregated the largest collection of Faberge eggs in the world as part of national Russian treasure so he's a very well known business personality and of course during the course of my career which has focused heavily on also doing investigations on Russian related issues I have come across Viktor Vekselberg and I've had the opportunity to meet with him and so I know him as a as a business leader but c5 has no relationship with Viktor Vekselberg and we've never accepted any investment from him we've never asked him for an investment and our firm a venture capital firm has no ties to Viktor Vekselberg so you've worked had a relationship at some point in your career but no I wouldn't on a daily basis you don't have a deep relationship can you explain how deep that relationship is what were the interactions you had with him so clarify that point so so I know Viktor Vekselberg and I've met him on more than one occasion in different settings and as I shared with you I served on the board of a South African mining company which is black owned for a period of a year and which Renova had a minority investment alongside an Australian company called South 32 and that's the extent of the contact and exposure I've had to so casual business run-ins and interactions not like again that's correct deep joint ventures are very kind of okay let's get back to c5 for a minute cause I want to ask you it but just do just a circle just one last issue and Viktor Vekselberg Viktor Vekselberg is the chairman of scope over the Russian technology innovation park that we discussed and he became the chairman under the presidency of President Dmitry Medvedev during the time when Hillary Clinton was doing a reset on Russian relations and during that time so vekselberg have built up very effective relationships with all of the or many of the leading big US technology companies and today you can find the roster of those partners the list of those partners on the scope of our website and those nuclear drove that yes Victor drove that Victor drove that during during in the Clinton Secretary of this started the scope of our project started during the the Medvedev presidency and in the period 2010-2011 you'll find many photographs of mr. vekselberg signing partnership agreements with very well known technology companies for Skolkovo and most of those companies still in one way or another remain involved in the Skolkovo project this has been the feature the article so there are I think and I've read all the other places where they wanted to make this decision Valley of Russia correct there's a lot of Russian programmers who work for American companies I know a few of them that do so there's technology they get great programmers in Russia but certainly they have technology so oracles they're ibm's they're cisco say we talked about earlier there is US presence there are you do you have a presence there and does Amazon Web service have a presence on do you see five it and that's knowing I was alright it's well it's a warning in the wrong oh sorry about that what's the Skog Obama's called spoke over so Andres Kokomo's this has been well report it's the Silicon Valley of Russia and so a lot of American companies they're IBM Oracle Cisco you mentioned earlier I can imagine it makes sense they a lot of recruiting little labs going on we see people hire Russian engineers all the time you know c5 have a presence there and does AWS have a presence there and do you work together in a TBS in that area explain that relationship certainly c5 Amazon individually or you can't speak for Amazon but let's see if I've have there and do you work with Amazon in any way there c-5m there's no work in Russia and neither does any of our portfolio companies c5 has no relationship with the Skolkovo Technology Park and as I said the parties for this spoke of a Technology Park is a matter of record is only website anyone can take a look at it and our name is not amongst those partners and I think this was this is an issue which I which I fault the BBC report on because if the BBC report was fair and accurate they would have disclosed the fact that there's a long list of partners with a scope of our project very well known companies many of them competitors in the Jedi process but that was not the case the BBC programme in a very misleading and deceptive way created the impression that for some reason somehow c5 was involved in Skolkovo without disclosing the fact that many other companies are involved they and of course we are not involved and your only relationship with Declan Berg Viktor Vekselberg was through the c5 raiser bid three c5 no no Viktor Vekselberg was never involved in c5 raiser Petco we had Vladimir Kuznetsov as a man not as a minority investor day and when we diligence him one of our key findings was that he was acting in independent capacity and he was investing his own money as a you national aniseh Swiss resident so you if you've had no business dealings with Viktor Vekselberg other than casual working c-5 has had no business dealings with with Viktor Vekselberg in a in a personal capacity earlier before the onset of sanctions I served on the board of a black-owned South African mining company and which Renault bombs the Vekselberg company as a minority investment alongside an Australian company called South 32 and my motivation for doing so was to support African entrepreneurship because this was one of the first black owned mining companies in the country was established with a British investment in which I was involved in and I was very supportive of the work that this company does to develop manganese mining in the Kalahari Desert and your role there was advisory formal what was the role there it was an advisory role so no ownership no ownership no equity no engagement you call them to help out on a project I was asked to support the company at the crucial time when they had a dispute on royalties when they were looking at the future of the Kalahari basin and the future of the manganese reserve say and also to help the company through a transition of the black leadership the black executive leadership of the cut year is that roughly 2017 so recently okay let on the ownership of c5 can you explain who owns c5 I mean you're described as the owner if it's a venture capital firm you probably of investors so your managing director you probably have some carry of some sort and then talk about the relationship between c5 razor bidco the Russian special purpose vehicle that was created is that owning what does it fit is it a subordinate role so see my capital so Jones to start with c5 razor boot code was was never a Russian special purpose vehicle this was a British special purpose vehicle which we established for our own investment into a European enterprise software company vladimir kuznetsov later invested as an angel investor into the same company and we required him to do it through our structure because it was transparent and subject to FCA regulation there's no ties back to c5 he's been not an owner in any way of c5 no not on c5 so C fibers owned by five families who helped to establish the business and grow the business and partner in the business these are blue chip very well known European and American families it's a small transatlantic community or family investors who believe that it's important to use private capital for the greater good right history dealing with Russians can you talk about your career you mentioned your career in South Africa earlier talk about your career deal in Russia when did you start working with Russian people I was the international stage Russian Russia's that time in 90s and 2000 and now certainly has changed a lot let's talk about your history and deal with the Russians so percent of the Soviet Union I think there was a significant window for Western investment into Russia and Western investment during this time also grew very significantly during my career as an investigator I often dealt with Russian organized crime cases and in fact I established my consulting business with a former head of the Central European division of the CIA who was an expert on Russia and probably one of the world's leading experts on Russia so to get his name William Lofgren so during the course of of building this business we helped many Western investors with problems and issues related to their investments in Russia so you were working for the West I was waiting for the West so you are the good side and but when you were absolutely and when and when you do work of this kind of course you get to know a lot of people in Russia and you make Russian contacts and like in any other country as as Alexander Solzhenitsyn the great Russian dissident wrote the line that separates good and evil doesn't run between countries it runs through the hearts of people and so in this context there are there are people in Russia who crossed my path and across my professional career who were good people who were working in a constructive way for Russia's freedom and for Russia's independence and that I continue to hold in high regard and you find there's no technical security risk the United States of America with your relationship with c5 and Russia well my my investigative work that related to Russia cases are all in the past this was all done in the past as you said I was acting in the interest of Western corporations and Western governments in their relations with Russia that's documented and you'd be prepared to be transparent about that absolutely that's all those many of those cases are well documented to corporations for which my consulting firm acted are very well known very well known businesses and it's pretty much all on the on the Podesta gaiting corruption we were we were we were helping Western corporations invest into Russia in a way that that that meant that they did not get in meshed in corruption that meant they didn't get blackmailed by Russia organized crime groups which meant that their investments were sustainable and compliant with the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and other bribery regulation at war for everyone who I know that lives in Europe that's my age said when the EU was established there's a flight of Eastern Europeans and Russians into Western Europe and they don't have the same business practices so I'd imagine you'd run into some pretty seedy scenarios in this course of business well in drug-dealing under I mean a lot of underground stuff was going on they're different they're different government they're different economy I mean it wasn't like a structure so you probably were exposed to a lot many many post-conflict countries suffer from predatory predatory organized crime groups and I think what changed and of course of my invested investigative career was that many of these groups became digital and a lot of organized crime that was purely based in the physical world went into the into the digital world which was one of the other major reasons which led me to focus on cyber security and to invest in cyber security well gets that in a minute well that's great I may only imagine some of the things you're investigated it's easy to connect people with things when yeah things are orbiting around them so appreciate the candid response there I wanna move on to the other area I see in the stories national security risk conflict of interest in some of the stories you seeing this well is there conflict of interest this is an IT playbook I've seen over the years federal deals well you're gonna create some Fahd fear uncertainty and doubt there's always kind of accusations you know there's accusations around well are they self dealing and you know these companies or I've seen this before so I gotta ask you they're involved with you bought a company called s DB advisors it was one of the transactions that they're in I see connecting to in my research with the DoD Sally Donnelly who is Sally Donnelly why did you buy her business so I didn't buy Sonny Donnelly's business again so Sally Tony let's start with Sally darling so Sally Donny was introduced to me by Apple Mike Mullen as a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Sally served as his special advisor when he was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Apple Mullen was one of the first operating parties which we had in c5 and he continues to serve Admiral Mullen the four start yes sir okay and he continues to serve as one of operating partners to this day salad only and that will Mike worked very closely with the Duke of Westminster on one of his charitable projects which we supported and which is close to my heart which is established a new veteran rehabilitation center for Britain upgrading our facility which dates back to the Second World War which is called Headley court to a brand-new state-of-the-art facility which was a half a billion dollar public-private partnership which Duke led and in this context that Ron Mullen and Sally helped the Duke and it's team to meet some of the best experts in the US on veteran rehabilitation on veteran care and on providing for veterans at the end of the service and this was a this was a great service which it did to the to this new center which is called the defense and national rehabilitation center which opened up last summer in Britain and is a terrific asset not only for Britain but also for allies and and so the acquisition she went on to work with secretary Manus in the Department of Defense yes in February Feb 9 you through the transaction yes in February 2017 Sally decided to do public service and support of safety matters when he joined the current administration when she left her firm she sold it free and clear to a group of local Washington entrepreneurs and she had to do that very quickly because the appointment of secretary mattis wasn't expected he wasn't involved in any political campaigns he was called back to come and serve his country in the nation's interest very unexpectedly and Sally and a colleague of us Tony de Martino because of their loyalty to him and the law did to the mission followed him into public service and my understanding is it's an EAJA to sell a business in a matter of a day or two to be able to be free and clear of title and to have no compliance issues while she was in government her consulting business didn't do any work for the government it was really focused on advising corporations on working with the government and on defense and national security issues I didn't buy Sonny's business one of c-5 portfolio companies a year later acquired SPD advisors from the owner supported with a view to establishing and expanding one of our cyber advising businesses into the US market and this is part of a broader bind bolt project which is called Haven ITC secure and this was just one of several acquisitions that this platform made so just for the record c5 didn't buy her company she repeat relieved herself of any kind of conflict of interest going into the public service your portfolio company acquired the company in short order because they knew the synergies because it would be were close to it so I know it's arm's length but as a venture capitalist you have no real influence other than having an investment or board seat on these companies right so they act independent in your structure absolutely make sure I get that's exactly right John but but not much more importantly only had no influence over the Jedi contract she acted as secretary mitosis chief of staff for a period of a year and have functions as described by the Government Accounting Office was really of a ministerial nature so she was much more focused on the Secretary's diary than she was focused on any contracting issues as you know government contracting is very complex it's very technical sally has as many wonderful talents and attributes but she's never claimed to be a cloud computing expert and of equal importance was when sally joined the government in february 17 jeddah wasn't even on the radar it wasn't even conceived as a possibility why did yet I cannot just for just for the record the Jedi contract my understanding is that and I'm not an expert on one government contracting but my understanding is that the RFP the request for proposals for the July contract came out in quarter three of this year for the first time earlier this year there was a publication of an intention to put out an RFP I think that happened in at the end of quarter one five yep classic yeah and then the RFP came out and called a three bits had to go in in November and I understand a decision will be made sometime next year what's your relationship well where's she now what she still was so sunny left finished the public service and and I think February March of this year and she's since gone on to do a fellowship with a think-tank she's also reestablished her own business in her own right and although we remain to be good friends I'm in no way involved in a business or a business deal I have a lot of friends in DC I'm not a really policy wonk of any kind we have a lot of friends who are it's it's common when it administrations turnover people you know or either appointed or parked a work force they leave and they go could they go to consultancy until the next yeah until the next and frustration comes along yeah and that's pretty common that's pretty cool this is what goes on yeah and I think this whole issue of potential conflicts of interest that salad only or Tony the Martino might have had has been addressed by the Government Accounting Office in its ruling which is on the public record where the GAO very clearly state that neither of these two individuals were anywhere near the team that was writing the terms for the general contract and that their functions were really as described by the GAO as ministerial so XI salient Antonia was such a long way away from this contact there's just no way that they could have influenced it in in in any respect and their relation to c5 is advisory do they and do they both are they have relations with you now what's the current relationship since since Sally and Tony went to do public service we've had no contact with them we have no reason of course to have contact with them in any way they were doing public service they were serving the country and serving the nation and since they've come out of public service we've we've not reestablished any commercial relationship so we talked earlier about the relation with AWS there's only if have a field support two incubators its accelerator does c5 have any portfolio companies that are actually bidding or working on the Jedi contract none what Santa John not zero zero so outside of c5 having relation with Amazon and no portfolios working with a Jedi contract there's no link to c5 other than a portfolio company buying Sally Donnelly who's kind of connected to general mattis up here yeah Selleck has six degrees of separation yes I think this is a constant theme in this conspiracy theory Jonas is six degrees of separation it's it's taking relationships that that that developed in a small community in Washington and trying to draw nefarious and sinister conclusions from them instead of focusing on competing on performance competing on innovation and competing on price and perhaps that's not taking place because the companies that are trying to do this do not have the capability to do so Andre I really appreciate you coming on and answering these tough questions I want to talk about what's going on with c5 now but I got to say you know I want to ask you one more time because I think this is critical you've worked for big-time company Kroll with terminus international market very crazy time time transformation wise you've worked with the CIA in Quantico the FBI nuclei in Quantico on a collaboration you were to know you've done work for the good guys you have see if I've got multiple years operating why why are you being put as a bad guy here I mean you're gonna you know being you being put out there with if you search your name on Google it says you're a spy all these evil all these things are connecting and we're kind of digging through them they kind of don't Joan I've had the privilege of a tremendous career I've had the privilege of working with with great leaders and having had great mentors if you do anything of significance if you do anything that's helping to make a difference or to make a change you should first expect scrutiny but also expect criticism when that scrutiny and criticism are fact-based that's helpful and that's good for society and for the health of society when on the other hand it is fake news or it is the construct of elaborate conspiracy theories that's not good for the health of society it's not good for the national interest is not good for for doing good business you've been very after you're doing business for the for the credibility people questioning your credibility what do you want to tell people that are watching this about your credibility that's in question again with this stuff you've done and you're continuing to do what's the one share something to the folks that might mean something to them you can sway them or you want to say something directly what would you say the measure of a person it is his or her conduct in c-five we are continuing to build our business we continue to invest in great companies we continue to put cravat private capital to work to help drive innovation including in the US market we will continue to surround ourselves with good people and we will continue to set the highest standards for the way in which we invest and build our businesses it's common I guess I would say that I'm getting out as deep as you are in the in term over the years with looking at these patterns but the pattern that I see is very simple when bad guys get found out they leave the jurisdiction they flee they go do something else and they reinvent themselves and scam someone else you've been doing this for many many years got a great back record c5 now is still doing business continuing not skipping a beat the story comes out hopefully kind of derail this or something else will think we're gonna dig into it so than angle for sure but you still have investments you're deploying globally talk about what c5 is doing today tomorrow next few months the next year you have deals going down you're still doing business you have business out there our business has not slowed down for a moment we have the support of tremendous investors we have the support of tremendous partners in our portfolio companies we have the support of a great group of operating partners and most important of all we have a highly dedicated highly focused group of investment teams of very experienced and skilled professionals who are making profitable investments and so we are continuing to build our business we have a very full deal pipeline we will be completing more investment transactions next week and we are continue to scalar assets under management next year we will have half a billion dollars of assets under management and we continue to focus on our mission which is to use private capital to help innovate and drive a change for good after again thank you we have the story in the BBC kicked all this off the 12th no one's else picked it up I think other journals have you mentioned earlier you think this there's actually people putting this out you you call out let's got John wheeler we're going to look into him do you think there's an organized campaign right now organized to go after you go after Amazon are you just collateral damage you mentioned that earlier is there a funded effort here well Bloomberg has reported on the fact that that one of the competitors for this bit of trying to bring together a group of companies behind a concerted effort specifically to block Amazon Web Services and so we hear these reports we see this press speculation if that was the case of course that would not be good for a fair and open and competitive bidding process which is I think is the Department of Defense's intention and what is in the interests of the country at a time when national security innovation will determine not only the fate of future Wars but also the fate of a sons and daughters who are war fighters and to be fair to process having something undermine it like a paid-for dossier which I have multiple sources confirming that's happened it's kind of infiltrating the journalists and so that's kind of where I'm looking at right now is that okay the BBC story just didn't feel right to me credible outlet you work for them you did investigations for them back in the day have you talked to them yes no we are we are we are in correspondence with the BBC I think in particular we want them to address the fact that they've conflated facts in this story playing this parlor game of six degrees of separation we want them to address the important principle of the independence of the in editorial integrity at the fact that they did not disclose that they expert on this program actually has significant conflicts of interests of his own and finally we want them to disclose the fact that it's not c5 and Amazon Web Services who have had a relationship with the scope of our technology park the scope of our technology park actually has a very broad set of Western partners still highly engaged there and even in recent weeks of hosted major cloud contracts and conferences there and and all of this should have been part of the story in on the record well we're certainly going to dig into it I appreciate your answer the tough questions we're gonna certainly look into this dossier if this is true this is bad and if there's people behind it acting behind it then certainly we're gonna report on that and I know these were tough questions thanks for taking the time Andre to to answer them with us Joan thanks for doing a deep dive on us okay this is the Q exclusive conversation here in Palo Alto authority narc who's the founder of c-5 capital venture capital firm in the center of a controversy around this BBC story which we're going to dig into more this has been exclusive conversation I'm John Tory thanks for watching [Music] you

>> Live from Seattle, Washington it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone, it's theCUBE live here in Seattle for day three of three of wall-to-wall coverage. We've been analyzing here on theCUBE for three days, talking to all the experts, the CEOs, CTOs, developers, startups. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman, with theCUBE coverage of here at dock, not DockerCon, KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. Getting down to the last Con. >> So close, John, so close. >> Lot of Docker containers around here. We'll check it on the Kubernetes. Our next two guests got a startup, hot startup here. You got Norman Hsieh, head of business development, LogDNA. New compelling solution on Kubernetes give them a unique advantage, and of course, Daniel Berg who's distinguished engineer at IBM. They have a deal. We're going to talk about the startup and the deal with IBM. The highlights, kind of a new model, a new world's developing. Thanks for joining us. >> Yeah, no problem, thanks for having us. >> May get you on at DockerCon sometimes. (Daniel laughing) Get you DockerCon. The container certainly been great, talk about your product first. Let's get your company out there. What do you guys do? You got something new and different. Something needed. What's different about it? >> Yeah, so we started building this product. One thing we were trying to do is finding a login solution that was built for developers, especially around DevOps. We were running our own multi-tenant SaaS product at the time and we just couldn't find anything great. We tried open source Elastic and it turned out to be a lot to manage, there was a lot of configuration we had to do. We tried a bunch of the other products out there which were mostly built for log analysis, so you'd analyze logs, maybe a week or two after, and there was nothing just realtime that we wanted, and so we decided to build our own. We overcame a lot of challenges where we just felt that we could build something that was easier to use than what was out there today. Our philosophy is for developers in the terms of we want to make it as simple as possible. We don't want you to manage where you're going to think about how logs work today. And so, the whole idea, even you can go down to some of the integrations that we have, our Kubernetes integration's two lines. You essentially hit two QCTL lines, your entire cluster will get logged, directly logged in in seconds. That's something we show often times at demos as well. >> Norman, I wonder if you can drill in a little bit more for us. Always look at is a lot of times the new generation, they've got just new tools to play with and new things to do. What was different, what changes? Just the composability and what a small form factor. I would think that you could just change the order of magnitude in some of the pricing of some of these. Tell us why it's different. >> Yeah, I mean, I think there's, three major things was speed. So what we found was that there weren't a lot of solutions that were optimized really, really well for finding logs. There were a lot of log solutions out there, but we wanted to optimize that so we fine-tuned Elasticsearch. We do a lot of stuff around there to make that experience really pleasurable for our users. The other is scale. So we're noticing now is if you kind of expand on the world of back in the day we had single machines that people got logs off of, then you went to VMware where you're taking a single machine and splitting up to multiple different things, and now you have containers, and all of a sudden you have Kubernetes, you're talking about thousands and thousands of nodes running and large production service. How do you find logs in those things? And so we really wanted to build for that scale and that usability where, for Kubernetes, we'll automatically tag all your logs coming through. So you might get a single log line, but we'll tag it with all the meta-data you need to find exactly what you want. So if I want to, if my container dies and I no longer know that containers around, how am I going to get the logs off of that, well, you can go to LogDNA, find the container that you're looking for, know exactly where that error's coming from as well. >> So you're basically storing all this data, making it really easy for the integration piece. Where does the IBM relationship fit in? What's the partnership? What are you guys doing together? >> I don't know if Dan wants to-- >> Go ahead, go ahead. >> Yeah, so we're partnering with IBM. We are one of their major partners for login. So if you go into Observability tab under IMB Cloud and click on Login, login is there, you can start the login instance. What we've done is, IBM's brought us a great opportunity where we could take our product and help benefit their own customers and also IBM themselves with a lot of the login that we do. They saw that we are very simplistic way of thinking about logs and it was really geared towards when you think about IBM Cloud and the shift that they're moving towards, which is really developer-focused, it was a really, really good match for us. It brought us the visibility into the upmarket with larger customers and also gives us the ability to kind of deploy globally across IBM Cloud as well. >> I mean, IBMs got a great channel on the sales side too, and you guys got a great relationship. We've seen that playbook before where I think we've interviewed in all the other events with IBM. Startups can really, if they fit in with IBM, it's just massive, but what's the reason? Why the partnership? Explain. >> Well, I mean, first of all we were looking for a solution, a login solution, that fit really well with IKS, our Kubernetes service. And it's cloud-native, high scale, large number of cluster, that's what our customers are building. That's what we want to use internally as well. I mean, we were looking for a very robust cloud-native login service that we could use ourselves, and that's when we ran across these guys. What, about a year ago? >> Yeah, I mean, I think we kind of first got introduced at last year's KubeCon and then it went to Container World, and we just kept seeing each other. >> And we just kept on rolling with it so what we've done with that integration, what's nice about the integration, is it's directly in the catalog. So it's another service in the catalog, you go and select it, and provision it very easily. But what's really cool about it is we wanted to have that integration directly with the Kubernetes services as well, so there's the tab on the Integration tab on the Kubernetes, literally one button, two lines of code that you just have to execute, bam! All your logs are now streaming for the entire cluster with all the index and everything. It just makes it a really nice, rich experience to capture your logs. >> This is infrastructure as code, that's what the promise was. >> Absolutely, yes. >> You have very seamless integration and the backend just works. Now talk about the Kubernetes pieces. I think this is fascinating 'cause we've been pontificating and evaluating all the commentary here in theCUBE, and we've come to the conclusion that cloud's great, but there's other new platform-like things emerging. You got Edge and all these things, so there's a whole new set, new things are going to come up, and it's not going to be just called cloud, it's going to be something else. There's Edge, you got cameras, you got data, you got all kinds of stuff going on. Kubernetes seems to fit a lot of these emerging use cases. Where does the Kubernetes fit in? You say you built on Kubernetes, just why is that so important? Explain that one piece. >> Yeah, I mean, I think there's, Kubernetes obviously brought a lot of opportunities for us. The big differentiator for us was because we were built on Kubernetes from the get go, we made that decision a long time ago, we didn't realize we could actually deploy this package anywhere. It didn't have to be, we didn't have to just run as a multi-tenant SaaS product anymore and I think part of that is for IBM, their customers are actually running, when they're talking about an integrated login service, we're actually running on IBM Cloud, so their customers can be sure that the data doesn't actually move anywhere else. It's going to stay in IBM Cloud and-- >> This is really important and because they're on the Kubernetes service, it gives them the opportunity, running on Kubernetes, running automatic service, they're going to be able to put LogDNA in each of the major regions. So customer will be able to keep their logged data in the regions that they want it to stay. >> Great for compliance. >> Absolutely. >> I mean, compliance, dreams-- >> Got to have it. >> Especially with EU. >> How about search and discovery, that's fit in too? Just simple, what's your strategy on that? >> Yeah, so our strategy is if you look at a lot of the login solutions out there today, a lot of times they require you to learn complex query languages and things like that. And so the biggest thing we were hearing was like, man, onboarding is really hard because some of our developers don't look at logs on a daily basis. They look at it every two weeks. >> Jerry Chen from Greylock Ventures said machine learning is the new, ML is the new SQL. >> Yup. (Daniel laughing) >> To your point, this complex querying is going to be automated away. >> Yup. >> Yes. >> And you guys agree with that. >> Oh, yeah. >> You actually, >> Totally agree with that. >> you talked about it on our interview. >> Norman, wonder if you can bring us in a little bit of compliance and what discussions you're having with customers. Obviously GDPR, big discussion point we had. We've got new laws coming from California soon. So how important is this to your customers, and what's the reality kind of out there in your user base? >> Yeah, compliance was, our founders had run a lot of different businesses before. They had two major startups where they worked with eBay, compliance was the big thing, so we made a decision early on to say, hey, look, we're about 50 people right now, let's just do compliance now. I've been at startups where we go, let's just keep growing and growing and we'll worry about compliance later-- >> Yeah, bite you in the ass, big time. >> Yeah, we made a decision to say, hey, look, we're smaller, let's just implement all the processes and necessary needs, so. >> Well, the need's there too, that's two things, right? I mean, get it out early. Like security, build it up front and you got it in. >> Exactly. >> And remember earlier we were talking and I was telling you how within the Kubernetes service we like to use our own services to build expertise? It's the same thing here. Not only are they running on top of IKS, we're using LogDNA to manage the logs and everything, and cross the infrastructure for IKS as well. So we're heavily using it. >> This also highlights, Daniel, the ecosystem dynamic of having when you break down this monolithic type of environments and their sets of services, you benefit because you can tap into a startup, they can tap in to IBM's goodness. It's like somewhat simple Biz Dev deal other than the RevShare component of the sales, but technically, this is what customers want at the endgame is they want the right tool, the right job, the right product. If it comes from a startup, you guys don't have to build it. >> I mean, exactly. Let the experts do it, we'll integrate it. It's a great relationship. And the teams work really well together which is fantastic. >> What do you guys do with other startups? If a startup watches and says, hey, I want to be like LogDNA. I want to plug into IBM's Cloud. I want to be just like them and make all that cash. What do they got to do? What's the model? >> I mean, we're constantly looking at startups and new business opportunities obviously. We do this all the time. But it's got to be the right fit, alright? And that's important. It's got to be the right fit with the technology, it's got to be the right fit as far as culture, and team dynamics of not only my team but the startup's teams and how we're going to work together, and this is why it worked really great with LogDNA. I mean, everything, it just all fit, it all made sense, and it had a good business model behind that as well. So, yes, there's opportunities for others but we have to go through and explore all those. >> So, Norman, wonder if you can share, how's your experience been at the show here? We'd love to hear, you're going to have so many startups here. You got record-setting attendance for the show. What were your expectations coming in? What are the KPIs you're measuring with and how has it met what you thought you were going to get? >> No, it's great, I mean, previous to the last year's KubeCon we had not really done any events. We're a small company, we didn't want to spend the resources, but we came in last year and I think what was refreshing was people would talk to us and we're like, oh, yeah, we're not an open source technology, we're actually a log vendor and we can, and we'll-- (Stu laughing) So what we said was, hey, we'll brush that into an experience, and people were like, oh, wow, this is actually pretty refreshing. I'm not configuring my fluentd system, fluentd to tap into another Elasticsearch. There was just not a lot of that. I think this year expectation was we need the size doubled. We still wanted to get the message out there. We knew we were hot off the presses with the IMB public launch of our service on IBM Cloud. And I think we we're expecting a lot. I mean, we more than doubled what our lead count was and it's been an amazing conference. I mean, I think the energy that you get and the quality of folks that come by, it's like, yeah, everybody's running Kubernetes, they know what they're talking about, and it makes that conversation that much easier for us as well. >> Now you're CUBE alumni now too. It's the booth, look at that. (everyone laughing) Well, guys, thanks for coming on, sharing the insight. Good to see you again. Great commentary, again, having distinguished engineering, and these kinds of conversations really helps the community figure out kind of what's out there, so I appreciate that. And if everything's going to be on Kubernetes, then we should put theCUBE on Kubernetes. With these videos, we'll be on it, we'll be out there. >> Hey, yeah, absolutely, that'd be great. >> TheCUBE covers day three. Breaking it down here. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. That's a wrap for us here in Seattle. Thanks for watching and look for us next year, 2019. That's a wrap for 2018, Stu, good job. Thanks for coming on, guys, really appreciate it. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for watching, see you around. (futuristic instrumental music)

>> Narrator: Live From Seattle, Washington it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018. Brought to you by Red Hat, the cloud-native computing foundation and antiquo system partners. >> Okay welcome back everyone it's live coverage here at theCUBE at KubeCon and CloudNativeCon here at Seattle for 2018 event. 8,000 people, up from 4,000 last year. I'm John Furrier with Stuart Miniman, my cohost. Next guest Daniel Berg, distinguished engineer at IBM Cloud Kubernetes Service. Daniel, great to have you on. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for joining us. Good to see you. I'll say you guys know a lot about Kubernetes. You've been using it for a while. >> Yes very much. >> Blue mix, you guys did a lot of cloud, a lot of open source. What's going on with the service? Take a minute to explain your role, what you guys are doing, how it all fits into the big picture here. >> Yeah yeah yeah so I'm the distinguished engineer over top of the architecture and everything around the Kubernetes Service. I'm backed by a crazy wicked awesome team. Right? They are amazing. They're the real wizards behind the curtain right? I'm the curtain is basically all it is. But we've done a phenomenal amount of work on IKS. We've delivered it. We've delivered some amazing HA capabilities, highly reliable but what's really great about it is the service that we provide to all of our customers? We're actually running all of IBM cloud on it, so all of our services, the Watson service, the cloud dataset base services, our keepertech service, identity management, billing, all of it, it's all running. First of all it's moving to containers and Kubernetes and it's running on our managed service. >> So just to make sure I get it all out there, I know we talked to a lot of other folks at IBM. I want to make sure we table it. You guys are highly contributing to the upstream. >> Daniel: Yes. >> As well as running your workload and other customers' workloads on Kubernetes within the IBM cloud. >> Unmodified right? I mean we're taking upstream and we're packed in and the key thing that we're doing is we're providing it as a managed service with our extensions into it. But yeah we're running, we've hit problems over the last 18, 20 months right? There's lots of problems. >> Take us into people always wonder what happens when this reaches real scale. So what experiences, what can you share with us? >> So when you really start hitting like real scale, real scale being like 500, 1,000, couple thousand nodes, right, then you're hitting real scale there. And we're dealing with tens of thousands of clusters, right? You start hitting different pressure points inside of Kubernetes, things that most customers are not going to hit and they're gnarly problems, right? They're really complicated problems. One of the most recent ones that we hit is just scaling problems with CRDs. Now that we've been promoting heavily CRDs, customized Kubernetes, which is a good thing. Well, it starts to hit another pressure point that you then have to start working through scaling of Kubernetes, scaling of the master, dealing with scheduling problems. Once you start getting into these larger numbers that's when you start hitting these pressure points and yes we are making changes and then we're contributing those back up to the upstream. >> One of the things we've been hearing in the interviews here and obviously in the coverage is that the maturation of Kubernetes, great, check, you guys are pushing these pressure points, which is great cause you're actually using it. What are the key visibility points that you're seeing where value's being created, and two what're some of the key learnings that you guys have had? I mean, so you're starting to see some visibility around where people can have value in the stack. Well, or not stack, but in the open source and create value and then learnings that you guys have had. >> Right, right, right. I mean for us the key value here is first of all providing a certified Kubernetes platform, right? I mean, Kubernetes has matured. It has gotten better. It's very mature. You can run production workloads on it no doubt. We've got many many examples of it so providing a certified managed solution around that where customers can focus on their application and not so much the platform, highly valuable right? Because it's certified, they can code to Kubernetes. We always push our teams both internal and external focus on Kubernetes, focus on building a Kube native experience cause that's going to give you the best portability ability moving whether you're using IBM cloud or another cloud provider right? It's a fully certified platform for that. >> Dan, you know, it's one thing if you're building on that platform but what experience do you have of taking big applications and moving it on there? I remember a year or two ago it seemed like it was sexy to talk about lift and shift and most people understand it's like really you just can't take what you had and take advantage of it. You need to be, it might be part of the journey but I'm sure you've got a lot of experiences there. >> Yeah we've got, I mean, we've seen almost every type of workload now cause a lot of people were asking Well, what kind of workloads can you containerize? Can you move to Kubernetes? Based on what we've seen pretty much all of them can move so and we do see a lot of the whole lifT and shift and just put it on Kubernetes but they really don't get the value and we've seen some really crazy uses of Kubernetes where they're on Kubernetes but they're not really, like what I say Kube native. They're not adhering to the Kubernetes principles and practices and therefore they don't get the full value so they're on Kubernetes and they get some of the okay we're doing some health checking but they don't have the proper probes right? They don't have the proper scheduling hints. They don't have the proper quotas. They don't have the proper limits. So they're not properly using Kubernetes so therefore they don't get the full advantage out of it. So what we're seeing a lot though is that customers do that lift and shift, but ultimately they have to, they have to rewrite a lot of what they're doing. To get the most value, and this is true of cloud and cloud native, ultimately at the end of the day if you truly want to get the value of cloud and cloud native you're going to do a rewrite eventually and that will be full cloud native. You're going to take advantage of the APIs and you're going to follow the best practices and the concepts of the platform. >> Containers give you some luxury to play with workloads that you don't maybe have time to migrate over but this brings up the point of the question that we hear a lot and I want to get your thoughts on this because the world's getting educated very fast on cloud native and rearchitecting, replatforming, whatever word you want to use, reimagining their infrastructure. How do you see multicloud driving the investment or architectural thinking with customers? What're they, what're some of the things that you see that are important for 2019 as people are saying you know what? My IT is transforming, we know that, we're going to be a multicloud world. I've got to make investments. >> You definitely have to make those. >> What are those investments architecturally, how should they lay those out? What're your thoughts? >> So my thought there is ultimately, you've got focus on a standardized platform that you're going to use across those because multicloud it's here. It's here to stay whether it's just on premises and you're doing off premises or you're doing on premises and multiple cloud vendors and that's where everybody's going and it's going to be give it another six, 12 months. That's going to be the practice. That's going to be what everybody does. You're not one cloud provider, you're multiple. So standardization, community, massive. Do you have a community around that? You can't vendor lock in if you're going to be doing portability across all of these cloud providers. Standardization governance around the platform the certification so Kubernetes you have a certified process that you certify every version so you at least know I'm using a vendor that's certified. Right? I have some promise that my application's going to run on that. Now is that as simple as well I picked a certified Kubernetes and therefore I should be able to run my application. Not so simple. >> And operationally, they're running CICD, you got to run that over the top. >> You've got to have a common, yeah, You've got to have a common observability model across all of that, what you're logging, what're you're monitoring, what's your CICD process. You've got to have a common CICD process that's going to go across all of those cloud providers, right, all of your cloud environments. >> Dan, take us inside. How're we doing with security? It's one of those sort of choke points. Go back to containers when they first started through to Kubernetes. Are we doing well on security now and where do we need to go? >> Are we doing well on it? Yes we are. I think we're doing extremely well on security. Do we have room for improvement? Absolutely everybody does. I've just spent the last eight months doing compliance and compliance work. That's not necessarily security but it dips into it quite often right? Security is a central focus. Anybody doing public cloud, especially providers, we're highly focused on security and you've got to secure your platforms. I think with Kubernetes and providing first of all proper isolation and customers need to understand what levels of isolation am I getting? What levels of sharing am I getting? Are those well documented and I understand what my providers providing me. But the community's improving. Things that we're seeing around like Kubernetes and what they're doing with secrets and proper encryption, encryption, notary with the image repositories and everything. All that plays into providing a more secure platform so we're getting there, things are getting better. >> Well there was a recent vulnerability that just got patched rather fast. >> Daniel: There was. >> It seemed like it moved really quick. What do we learn from that? >> Well we've learned that Kubernetes itself is not perfect, right? Actually I would be a little bit concerned if we didn't find a security hole because then that means there's not enough adoption, where we just haven't found the problems. Yes we found a security hole. The thing is the community addressed it, communicated it, and all of the vendors provided a patch very quickly and many of them like with IKS we rolled out the patch to all of our clusters, all of our customers, they didn't have to do anything and I believe Google did the same thing so these are things that the community is improving, we're maturing and we're handling those security problems. >> Dan, talk about the flexibility that Kubernetes provides. Certainly you mentioned earlier the value that can be extracted if you do it properly. Some people like to roll their own Kubernetes or they want the managed service because it streamlines things a bit faster. When do I want management? When do I want to roll my own? Is there kind of a feel? Is it more of a staffing thing? Is it more scale? Is it more application, like financial services might want to roll their own? We're starting to maybe see a different industry. What's your take on this? >> Well obviously I'm going to be super biased on this. But my belief there is that I mean obviously if you're going to be doing on premises and you need a lot of flexibility. You need flexibility of the kernel you may need to roll your own right? Because at that point you can control and drive a lot of the flexibility in there, understanding that you take on the responsibility of deploying and managing and updating your platform, which means generally that's an investment you're going to make that takes away from your critical investment of your developers on your business so personally I would say first and foremost... >> It's a big investment. >> It's a massive investment. I mean look at what the vendor, look at IKS. I've got a large team. They live and breathe Kubernetes. Live and breathe every single release, test it, validate it, roll updates. We're experts at updating Kubernetes without any down time. That's a massive investment. Let the experts do it. Focus on your business. >> John: And that's where the manage piece shines. >> That's where the mange piece absolutely shines. >> Okay so the question about automation comes up. I want to get your thoughts on the future state of Kubernetes because you know we go down the cloud native devops model. We want to automate away things. >> Daniel: Yes. >> Kubernetes is that some differentiation but I don't want to manage clusters. I don't want to manage it. I want it automated. >> Daniel: Yeah. >> So is it automating faster? Is it going to be automated? What's your take on the automation component? When and where and how? >> Well, I mean through the manage services I mean it's cloud native. It's all API driven, CLIs. You've got one command and you're scaling up a cluster. You get a cluster with one command, you can go across multiple zones with one command. Your cluster needs to be updated you call one command and you go home. >> John: That sounds automated to me. >> I mean that's fully and that's the only way that we can scale that. We're talking about thousands of updates on a daily basis. We're talking about tens of thousands of clusters fully automated. >> A lot of people have been talking the past couple of weeks around this notion of well all containers might have security boundary issues. Let's put a VM around it maybe stay for is it maybe just more of a fix? Cause why do I want to have a VM or is it better to just keep native core? Is that real conversation or is that fud? >> I mean it is a real conversation because people are starting to understand what are the proper isolation levels with my cluster. My personal belief around that is you really only need that level of isolation, those mini VMs, around your containers. Running a single container in a single VM seems overkill to me. However if you're running a multitenant cluster with untrusted content you better be taking extra precautions. First and foremost I would say don't do it because you're adding risk, right? But if you're going to do it yes, you might start looking at those types but if you're running a cluster in its an isolated cluster with full isolation levels all the way down to the hardware in a trusted environment, trust being it's your organization, it's your code. I think it's overkill then. >> Future of Kubernetes what happens next? People are hot on this. You've got service meshes, a lot of other goodness. People are really trying to stay with the pace, a lot of change and again a lot of education. But it's not a stack like I hear words like Kubernetes stack and the CNCM has a stack. So it's not necessarily a stack per se. >> Right it's not. >> Clarify the linguistic language around what we're talking about here. What's a stack? What's not a stack? It's all services. >> Look at it this way. So Kubernetes has done a phenomenal job as a project in the community to state exactly what it's trying to achieve, right? It is a platform. It is platform for running cloud native applications. That is what it is and it allows vendors to build on top of it. It allows customers to build on it and it's not trying to grow larger than that. It's just trying to improve overall that platform and that's what's fantastic about Kubernetes because that allows us and when you see the stack it's really cloud native. What pieces am I going to add to that awesome platform to make my life even better? Knative, Istio, a service measure. I'm going to put that on because I'm evolving, I'm doing more microservices. I'm going to build that on top of it. Inside of IBM we did cloud foundry enterprise environment, CFEE, cloud foundry on Kubernetes. Why not, right? It's a perfect combination. It's just going up the level and it's providing more usability, better different prescriptive uses of Kubernetes but Kubernetes is the platform. >> When I think about the composability of services it's not a stack. It's lego blocks. >> Daniel: Yeah it's pieces. I'm using different pieces here, there, everywhere. >> All right well Daniel thanks for coming on, sharing great insight. Congratulations on your success running major workloads within IBM for you guys and the customers. Again just the beginning, Kubernetes the beginning. Congratulations. Here inside the Cube we're breaking down all the action. Three days of live coverage. We're at day one at KubeCon and CloudNativeCon. We'll be right back with more coverage after this short break.

[Music] [Music] [Music] [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] [Laughter] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you you [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] wake up feeling blessed peace you warned that Russia ain't afraid to show it I'll expose it if I dressed up riding in that Chester roasted nigga catch you slippin on myself rocks on I messed up like yes sir [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] our program [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] you are not welcome to Red Hat summit 2018 2018 [Music] [Music] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] Wow that is truly the coolest introduction I've ever had thank you Wow I don't think I feel cool enough to follow an interaction like that Wow well welcome to the Red Hat summit this is our 14th annual event and I have to say looking out over this audience Wow it's great to see so many people here joining us this is by far our largest summit to date not only did we blow through the numbers we've had in the past we blew through our own expectations this year so I know we have a pretty packed house and I know people are still coming in so it's great to see so many people here it's great to see so many familiar faces when I had a chance to walk around earlier it's great to see so many new people here joining us for the first time I think the record attendance is an indication that more and more enterprises around the world are seeing the power of open source to help them with their challenges that they're facing due to the digital transformation that all of enterprises around the world are going through the theme for the summit this year is ideas worth exploring and we intentionally chose that because as much as we are all going through this digital disruption and the challenges associated with it one thing I think is becoming clear no one person and certainly no one company has the answers to these challenges right this isn't a problem where you can go buy a solution this is a set of capabilities that we all need to build it's a set of cultural changes that we all need to go through and that's going to require the best ideas coming from so many different places so we're not here saying we have the answers we're trying to convene the conversation right we want to serve as a catalyst bringing great minds together to share ideas so we all walk out of here at the end of the week a little wiser than when we first came here we do have an amazing agenda for you we have over 7,000 attendees we may be pushing 8,000 by the time we got through this morning we have 36 keynote speakers and we have a hundred and twenty-five breakout sessions and have to throw in one plug scheduling 325 breakout sessions is actually pretty difficult and so we used the Red Hat business optimizer which is an AI constraint solver that's new in the Red Hat decision manager to help us plan the summit because we have individuals who have a clustered set of interests and we want to make sure that when we schedule two breakout sessions we do it in a way that we don't have overlapping sessions that are really important to the same individual so we tried to use this tool and what we understand about people's interest in history of what they wanted to do to try to make sure that we spaced out different times for things of similar interests for similar people as well as for people who stood in the back of breakouts before and I know I've done that too we've also used it to try to optimize room size so hopefully we will do our best to make sure that we've appropriately sized the spaces for those as well so it's really a phenomenal tool and I know it's helped us a lot this year in addition to the 325 breakouts we have a lot of our customers on stage during the main sessions and so you'll see demos you'll hear from partners you'll hear stories from so many of our customers not on our point of view of how to use these technologies but their point of views of how they actually are using these technologies to solve their problems and you'll hear over and over again from those keynotes that it's not just about the technology it's about how people are changing how people are working to innovate to solve those problems and while we're on the subject of people I'd like to take a moment to recognize the Red Hat certified professional of the year this is known award we do every year I love this award because it truly recognizes an individual for outstanding innovation for outstanding ideas for truly standing out in how they're able to help their organization with Red Hat technologies Red Hat certifications help system administrators application developers IT architects to further their careers and help their organizations by being able to advance their skills and knowledge of Red Hat products and this year's winner really truly is a great example about how their curiosity is helped push the limits of what's possible with technology let's hear a little more about this year's winner when I was studying at the University I had computer science as one of my subjects and that's what created the passion from the very beginning they were quite a few institutions around my University who were offering Red Hat Enterprise Linux as a course and a certification paths through to become an administrator Red Hat Learning subscription has offered me a lot more than any other trainings that have done so far that gave me exposure to so many products under red hair technologies that I wasn't even aware of I started to think about the better ways of how these learnings can be put into the real life use cases and we started off with a discussion with my manager saying I have to try this product and I really want to see how it really fits in our environment and that product was Red Hat virtualization we went from deploying rave and then OpenStack and then the open shift environment we wanted to overcome some of the things that we saw as challenges to the speed and rapidity of release and code etc so it made perfect sense and we were able to do it in a really short space of time so you know we truly did use it as an Innovation Lab I think idea is everything ideas can change the way you see things an Innovation Lab was such an idea that popped into my mind one fine day and it has transformed the way we think as a team and it's given that playpen to pretty much everyone to go and test their things investigate evaluate do whatever they like in a non-critical non production environment I recruited Neha almost 10 years ago now I could see there was a spark a potential with it and you know she had a real Drive a real passion and you know here we are nearly ten years later I'm Neha Sandow I am a Red Hat certified engineer all right well everyone please walk into the states to the stage Neha [Music] [Applause] congratulations thank you [Applause] I think that - well welcome to the red has some of this is your first summit yes it is thanks so much well fantastic sure well it's great to have you here I hope you have a chance to engage and share some of your ideas and enjoy the week thank you thank you congratulations [Applause] neha mentioned that she first got interest in open source at university and it made me think red hats recently started our Red Hat Academy program that looks to programmatically infuse Red Hat technologies in universities around the world it's exploded in a way we had no idea it's grown just incredibly rapidly which i think shows the interest that there really is an open source and working in an open way at university so it's really a phenomenal program I'm also excited to announce that we're launching our newest open source story this year at Summit it's called the science of collective discovery and it looks at what happens when communities use open hardware to monitor the environment around them and really how they can make impactful change based on that technologies the rural premier that will be at 5:15 on Wednesday at McMaster Oni West and so please join us for a drink and we'll also have a number of the experts featured in that and you can have a conversation with them as well so with that let's officially start the show please welcome red hat president of products and technology Paul Cormier [Music] Wow morning you know I say it every year I'm gonna say it again I know I repeat myself it's just amazing we are so proud here to be here today too while you all week on how far we've come with opens with open source and with the products that we that we provide at Red Hat so so welcome and I hope the pride shows through so you know I told you Seven Summits ago on this stage that the future would be open and here we are just seven years later this is the 14th summit but just seven years later after that and much has happened and I think you'll see today and this week that that prediction that the world would be open was a pretty safe predict prediction but I want to take you just back a little bit to see how we started here and it's not just how Red Hat started here this is an open source in Linux based computing is now in an industry norm and I think that's what you'll you'll see in here this week you know we talked back then seven years ago when we put on our prediction about the UNIX error and how Hardware innovation with x86 was it was really the first step in a new era of open innovation you know companies like Sun Deck IBM and HP they really changed the world the computing industry with their UNIX models it was that was really the rise of computing but I think what we we really saw then was that single company innovation could only scale so far could really get so far with that these companies were very very innovative but they coupled hardware innovation with software innovation and as one company they could only solve so many problems and even which comp which even complicated things more they could only hire so many people in each of their companies Intel came on the scene back then as the new independent hardware player and you know that was really the beginning of the drive for horizontal computing power and computing this opened up a brand new vehicle for hardware innovation a new hardware ecosystem was built around this around this common hardware base shortly after that Stallman and leanness they had a vision of his of an open model that was created and they created Linux but it was built around Intel this was really the beginning of having a software based platform that could also drive innovation this kind of was the beginning of the changing of the world here that system-level innovation now having a hardware platform that was ubiquitous and a software platform that was open and ubiquitous it really changed this system level innovation and that continues to thrive today it was only possible because it was open this could not have happened in a closed environment it allowed the best ideas from anywhere from all over to come in in win only because it was the best idea that's what drove the rate of innovation at the pace you're seeing today and it which has never been seen before we at Red Hat we saw the need to bring this innovation to solve real-world problems in the enterprise and I think that's going to be the theme of the show today you're going to see us with our customers and partners talking about and showing you some of those real-world problems that we are sought solving with this open innovation we created rel back then for this for the enterprise it started it's it it wasn't successful because it's scaled it was secure and it was enterprise ready it once again changed the industry but this time through open innovation this gave the hardware ecosystem a software platform this open software platform gave the hardware ecosystem a software platform to build around it Unleashed them the hardware side to compete and thrive it enabled innovation from the OEMs new players building cheaper faster servers even new architectures from armed to power sprung up with this change we have seen an incredible amount of hardware innovation over the last 15 years that same innovation happened on the software side we saw powerful implementations of bare metal Linux distributions out in the market in fact at one point there were 300 there are over 300 distributions out in the market on the foundation of Linux powerful open-source equivalents were even developed in every area of Technology databases middleware messaging containers anything you could imagine innovation just exploded around the Linux platform in innovation it's at the core also drove virtualization both Linux and virtualization led to another area of innovation which you're hearing a lot about now public cloud innovation this innovation started to proceed at a rate that we had never seen before we had never experienced this in the past in this unprecedented speed of innovation and software was now possible because you didn't need a chip foundry in order to innovate you just needed great ideas in the open platform that was out there customers seeing this innovation in the public cloud sparked it sparked their desire to build their own linux based cloud platforms and customers are now are now bringing that cloud efficiency on-premise in their own data centers public clouds demonstrated so much efficiency the data centers and architects wanted to take advantage of it off premise on premise I'm sorry within their own we don't within their own controlled environments this really allowed companies to make the most of existing investments from data centers to hardware they also gained many new advantages from data sovereignty to new flexible agile approaches I want to bring Burr and his team up here to take a look at what building out an on-premise cloud can look like today Bure take it away I am super excited to be with all of you here at Red Hat summit I know we have some amazing things to show you throughout the week but before we dive into this demonstration I want you to take just a few seconds just a quick moment to think about that really important event your life that moment you turned on your first computer maybe it was a trs-80 listen Claire and Atari I even had an 83 b2 at one point but in my specific case I was sitting in a classroom in Hawaii and I could see all the way from Diamond Head to Pearl Harbor so just keep that in mind and I turn on an IBM PC with dual floppies I don't remember issuing my first commands writing my first level of code and I was totally hooked it was like a magical moment and I've been hooked on computers for the last 30 years so I want you to hold that image in your mind for just a moment just a second while we show you the computers we have here on stage let me turn this over to Jay fair and Dini here's our worldwide DevOps manager and he was going to show us his hardware what do you got Jay thank you BER good morning everyone and welcome to Red Hat summit we have so many cool things to show you this week I am so happy to be here and you know my favorite thing about red hat summit is our allowed to kind of share all of our stories much like bird just did we also love to you know talk about the hardware and the technology that we brought with us in fact it's become a bit of a competition so this year we said you know let's win this thing and we actually I think we might have won we brought a cloud with us so right now this is a private cloud for throughout the course of the week we're going to turn this into a very very interesting open hybrid cloud right before your eyes so everything you see here will be real and happening right on this thing right behind me here so thanks for our four incredible partners IBM Dell HP and super micro we've built a very vendor heterogeneous cloud here extra special thanks to IBM because they loaned us a power nine machine so now we actually have multiple architectures in this cloud so as you know one of the greatest benefits to running Red Hat technology is that we run on just about everything and you know I can't stress enough how powerful that is how cost-effective that is and it just makes my life easier to be honest so if you're interested the people that built this actual rack right here gonna be hanging out in the customer success zone this whole week it's on the second floor the lobby there and they'd be glad to show you exactly how they built this thing so let me show you what we actually have in this rack so contained in this rack we have 1056 physical chorus right here we have five and a half terabytes of RAM and just in case we threw 50 terabytes of storage in this thing so burr that's about two million times more powerful than that first machine you boot it up thanks to a PC we're actually capable of putting all the power needs and cooling right in this rack so there's your data center right there you know it occurred to me last night that I can actually pull the power cord on this thing and kick it up a notch we could have the world's first mobile portable hybrid cloud so I'm gonna go ahead and unplug no no no no no seriously it's not unplug the thing we got it working now well Berg gets a little nervous but next year we're rolling this thing around okay okay so to recap multiple vendors check multiple architectures check multiple public clouds plug right into this thing check and everything everywhere is running the same software from Red Hat so that is a giant check so burn Angus why don't we get the demos rolling awesome so we have totally we have some amazing hardware amazing computers on this stage but now we need to light it up and we have Angus Thomas who represents our OpenStack engineering team and he's going to show us what we can do with this awesome hardware Angus thank you Beth so this was an impressive rack of hardware to Joe has bought a pocket stage what I want to talk about today is putting it to work with OpenStack platform director we're going to turn it from a lot of potential into a flexible scalable private cloud we've been using director for a while now to take care of managing hardware and orchestrating the deployment of OpenStack what's new is that we're bringing the same capabilities for on-premise manager the deployment of OpenShift director deploying OpenShift in this way is the best of both worlds it's bare-metal performance but with an underlying infrastructure as a service that can take care of deploying in new instances and scaling out and a lot of the things that we expect from a cloud provider director is running on a virtual machine on Red Hat virtualization at the top of the rack and it's going to bring everything else under control what you can see on the screen right now is the director UI and as you see some of the hardware in the rack is already being managed at the top level we have information about the number of cores in the amount of RAM and the disks that each machine have if we dig in a bit there's information about MAC addresses and IPs and the management interface the BIOS kernel version dig a little deeper and there is information about the hard disks all of this is important because we want to be able to make sure that we put in workloads exactly where we want them Jay could you please power on the two new machines at the top of the rack sure all right thank you so when those two machines come up on the network director is going to see them see that they're new and not already under management and is it immediately going to go into the hardware inspection that populates this database and gets them ready for use so we also have profiles as you can see here profiles are the way that we match the hardware in a machine to the kind of workload that it's suited to this is how we make sure that machines that have all the discs run Seth and machines that have all the RAM when our application workouts for example there's two ways these can be set when you're dealing with a rack like this you could go in an individually tag each machine but director scales up to data centers so we have a rules matching engine which will automatically take the hardware profile of a new machine and make sure it gets tagged in exactly the right way so we can automatically discover new machines on the network and we can automatically match them to a profile that's how we streamline and scale up operations now I want to talk about deploying the software we have a set of validations we've learned over time about the Miss configurations in the underlying infrastructure which can cause the deployment of a multi node distributed application like OpenStack or OpenShift to fail if you have the wrong VLAN tags on a switch port or DHCP isn't running where it should be for example you can get into a situation which is really hard to debug a lot of our validations actually run before the deployment they look at what you're intending to deploy and they check in the environment is the way that it should be and they'll preempts problems and obviously preemption is a lot better than debugging something new that you probably have not seen before is director managing multiple deployments of different things side by side before we came out on stage we also deployed OpenStack on this rack just to keep me honest let me jump over to OpenStack very quickly a lot of our opens that customers will be familiar with this UI and the bare metal deployment of OpenStack on our rack is actually running a set of virtual machines which is running Gluster you're going to see that put to work later on during the summit Jay's gone to an awful lot effort to get this Hardware up on the stage so we're going to use it as many different ways as we can okay let's deploy OpenShift if I switch over to the deployed a deployment plan view there's a few steps first thing you need to do is make sure we have the hardware I already talked about how director manages hardware it's smart enough to make sure that it's not going to attempt to deploy into machines they're already in use it's only going to deploy on machines that have the right profile but I think with the rack that we have here we've got enough next thing is the deployment configuration this is where you get to customize exactly what's going to be deployed to make sure that it really matches your environment if they're external IPs for additional services you can set them here whatever it takes to make sure that the deployment is going to work for you as you can see on the screen we have a set of options around enable TLS for encryption network traffic if I dig a little deeper there are options around enabling ipv6 and network isolation so that different classes of traffic there are over different physical NICs okay then then we have roles now roles this is essentially about the software that's going to be put on each machine director comes with a set of roles for a lot of the software that RedHat supports and you can just use those or you can modify them a little bit if you need to add a monitoring agent or whatever it might be or you can create your own custom roles director has quite a rich syntax for custom role definition and custom Network topologies whatever it is you need in order to make it work in your environment so the rawls that we have right now are going to give us a working instance of openshift if I go ahead and click through the validations are all looking green so right now I can click the button start to the deploy and you will see things lighting up on the rack directors going to use IPMI to reboot the machines provisioned and with a trail image was the containers on them and start up the application stack okay so one last thing once the deployment is done you're going to want to keep director around director has a lot of capabilities around what we call de to operational management bringing in new Hardware scaling out deployments dealing with updates and critically doing upgrades as well so having said all of that it is time for me to switch over to an instance of openshift deployed by a director running on bare metal on our rack and I need to hand this over to our developer team so they can show what they can do it thank you that is so awesome Angus so what you've seen now is going from bare metal to the ultimate private cloud with OpenStack director make an open shift ready for our developers to build their next generation applications thank you so much guys that was totally awesome I love what you guys showed there now I have the honor now I have the honor of introducing a very special guest one of our earliest OpenShift customers who understands the necessity of the private cloud inside their organization and more importantly they're fundamentally redefining their industry please extend a warm welcome to deep mar Foster from Amadeus well good morning everyone a big thank you for having armadillos here and myself so as it was just set I'm at Mario's well first of all we are a large IT provider in the travel industry so serving essentially Airlines hotel chains this distributors like Expedia and others we indeed we started very early what was OpenShift like a bit more than three years ago and we jumped on it when when Retta teamed with Google to bring in kubernetes into this so let me quickly share a few figures about our Mario's to give you like a sense of what we are doing and the scale of our operations so some of our key KPIs one of our key metrics is what what we call passenger borders so that's the number of customers that physically board a plane over the year so through our systems it's roughly 1.6 billion people checking in taking the aircrafts on under the Amarillo systems close to 600 million travel agency bookings virtually all airlines are on the system and one figure I want to stress out a little bit is this one trillion availability requests per day that's when I read this figure my mind boggles a little bit so this means in continuous throughput more than 10 million hits per second so of course these are not traditional database transactions it's it's it's highly cached in memory and these applications are running over like more than 100,000 course so it's it's it's really big stuff so today I want to give some concrete feedback what we are doing so I have chosen two applications products of our Mario's that are currently running on production in different in different hosting environments as the theme here is of this talk hybrid cloud and so I want to give some some concrete feedback of how we architect the applications and of course it stays relatively high level so here I have taken one of our applications that is used in the hospitality environment so it's we have built this for a very large US hotel chain and it's currently in in full swing brought into production so like 30 percent of the globe or 5,000 plus hotels are on this platform not so here you can see that we use as the path of course on openshift on that's that's the most central piece of our hybrid cloud strategy on the database side we use Oracle and Couchbase Couchbase is used for the heavy duty fast access more key value store but also to replicate data across two data centers in this case it's running over to US based data centers east and west coast topology that are fit so run by Mario's that are fit with VMware on for the virtualization OpenStack on top of it and then open shift to host and welcome the applications on the right hand side you you see the kind of tools if you want to call them tools that we use these are the principal ones of course the real picture is much more complex but in essence we use terraform to map to the api's of the underlying infrastructure so they are obviously there are differences when you run on OpenStack or the Google compute engine or AWS Azure so some some tweaking is needed we use right at ansible a lot we also use puppet so you can see these are really the big the big pieces of of this sense installation and if we look to the to the topology again very high high level so these two locations basically map the data centers of our customers so they are in close proximity because the response time and the SLA is of this application is are very tight so that's an example of an application that is architectures mostly was high ability and high availability in minds not necessarily full global worldwide scaling but of course it could be scaled but here the idea is that we can swing from one data center to the unit to the other in matters of of minutes both take traffic data is fully synchronized across those data centers and while the switch back and forth is very fast the second example I have taken is what we call the shopping box this is when people go to kayak or Expedia and they're getting inspired where they want to travel to this is really the piece that shoots most of transit of the transactions into our Mario's so we architect here more for high scalability of course availability is also a key but here scaling and geographical spread is very important so in short it runs partially on-premise in our Amarillo Stata Center again on OpenStack and we we deploy it mostly in the first step on the Google compute engine and currently as we speak on Amazon on AWS and we work also together with Retta to qualify the whole show on Microsoft Azure here in this application it's it's the same building blocks there is a large swimming aspect to it so we bring Kafka into this working with records and another partner to bring Kafka on their open shift because at the end we want to use open shift to administrate the whole show so over time also databases and the topology here when you look to the physical deployment topology while it's very classical we use the the regions and the availability zone concept so this application is spread over three principal continental regions and so it's again it's a high-level view with different availability zones and in each of those availability zones we take a hit of several 10,000 transactions so that was it really in very short just to give you a glimpse on how we implement hybrid clouds I think that's the way forward it gives us a lot of freedom and it allows us to to discuss in a much more educated way with our customers that sometimes have already deals in place with one cloud provider or another so for us it's a lot of value to set two to leave them the choice basically what up that was a very quick overview of what we are doing we were together with records are based on open shift essentially here and more and more OpenStack coming into the picture hope you found this interesting thanks a lot and have a nice summer [Applause] thank you so much deeper great great solution we've worked with deep Marv and his team for a long for a long time great solution so I want to take us back a little bit I want to circle back I sort of ended talking a little bit about the public cloud so let's circle back there you know even so even though some applications need to run in various footprints on premise there's still great gains to be had that for running certain applications in the public cloud a public cloud will be as impactful to to the industry as as UNIX era was of computing was but by itself it'll have some of the same limitations and challenges that that model had today there's tremendous cloud innovation happening in the public cloud it's being driven by a handful of massive companies and much like the innovation that sundeck HP and others drove in a you in the UNIX era of community of computing many customers want to take advantage of the best innovation no matter where it comes from buddy but as they even eventually saw in the UNIX era they can't afford the best innovation at the cost of a siloed operating environment with the open community we are building a hybrid application platform that can give you access to the best innovation no matter which vendor or which cloud that it comes from letting public cloud providers innovate and services beyond what customers or anyone can one provider can do on their own such as large scale learning machine learning or artificial intelligence built on the data that's unique probably to that to that one cloud but consumed in a common way for the end customer across all applications in any environment on any footprint in in their overall IT infrastructure this is exactly what rel brought brought to our customers in the UNIX era of computing that consistency across any of those footprints obviously enterprises will have applications for all different uses some will live on premise some in the cloud hybrid cloud is the only practical way forward I think you've been hearing that from us for a long time it is the only practical way forward and it'll be as impactful as anything we've ever seen before I want to bring Byrne his team back to see a hybrid cloud deployment in action burr [Music] all right earlier you saw what we did with taking bare metal and lighting it up with OpenStack director and making it openshift ready for developers to build their next generation applications now we want to show you when those next turn and generation applications and what we've done is we take an open shift and spread it out and installed it across Asia and Amazon a true hybrid cloud so with me on stage today as Ted who's gonna walk us through an application and Brent Midwood who's our DevOps engineer who's gonna be making sure he's monitoring on the backside that we do make sure we do a good job so at this point Ted what have you got for us Thank You BER and good morning everybody this morning we are running on the stage in our private cloud an application that's providing its providing fraud detection detect serves for financial transactions and our customer base is rather large and we occasionally take extended bursts of traffic of heavy traffic load so in order to keep our latency down and keep our customers happy we've deployed extra service capacity in the public cloud so we have capacity with Microsoft Azure in Texas and with Amazon Web Services in Ohio so we use open chip container platform on all three locations because openshift makes it easy for us to deploy our containerized services wherever we want to put them but the question still remains how do we establish seamless communication across our entire enterprise and more importantly how do we balance the workload across these three locations in such a way that we efficiently use our resources and that we give our customers the best possible experience so this is where Red Hat amq interconnect comes in as you can see we've deployed a MQ interconnect alongside our fraud detection applications in all three locations and if I switch to the MQ console we'll see the topology of the app of the network that we've created here so the router inside the on stage here has made connections outbound to the public routers and AWS and Azure these connections are secured using mutual TLS authentication and encrypt and once these connections are established amq figures out the best way auda matically to route traffic to where it needs to get to so what we have right now is a distributed reliable broker list message bus that expands our entire enterprise now if you want to learn more about this make sure that you catch the a MQ breakout tomorrow at 11:45 with Jack Britton and David Ingham let's have a look at the message flow and we'll dive in and isolate the fraud detection API that we're interested in and what we see is that all the traffic is being handled in the private cloud that's what we expect because our latencies are low and they're acceptable but now if we take a little bit of a burst of increased traffic we're gonna see that an EQ is going to push a little a bi traffic out onto the out to the public cloud so as you're picking up some of the load now to keep the Layton sees down now when that subsides as your finishes up what it's doing and goes back offline now if we take a much bigger load increase you'll see two things first of all asher is going to take a bigger proportion than it did before and Amazon Web Services is going to get thrown into the fray as well now AWS is actually doing less work than I expected it to do I expected a little bit of bigger a slice there but this is a interesting illustration of what's going on for load balancing mq load balancing is sending requests to the services that have the lowest backlog and in order to keep the Layton sees as steady as possible so AWS is probably running slowly for some reason and that's causing a and Q to push less traffic its way now the other thing you're going to notice if you look carefully this graph fluctuate slightly and those fluctuations are caused by all the variances in the network we have the cloud on stage and we have clouds in in the various places across the country there's a lot of equipment locked layers of virtualization and networking in between and we're reacting in real-time to the reality on the digital street so BER what's the story with a to be less I noticed there's a problem right here right now we seem to have a little bit performance issue so guys I noticed that as well and a little bit ago I actually got an alert from red ahead of insights letting us know that there might be some potential optimizations we could make to our environment so let's take a look at insights so here's the Red Hat insights interface you can see our three OpenShift deployments so we have the set up here on stage in San Francisco we have our Azure deployment in Texas and we also have our AWS deployment in Ohio and insights is highlighting that that deployment in Ohio may have some issues that need some attention so Red Hat insights collects anonymized data from manage systems across our customer environment and that gives us visibility into things like vulnerabilities compliance configuration assessment and of course Red Hat subscription consumption all of this is presented in a SAS offering so it's really really easy to use it requires minimal infrastructure upfront and it provides an immediate return on investment what insights is showing us here is that we have some potential issues on the configuration side that may need some attention from this view I actually get a look at all the systems in our inventory including instances and containers and you can see here on the left that insights is highlighting one of those instances as needing some potential attention it might be a candidate for optimization this might be related to the issues that you were seeing just a minute ago insights uses machine learning and AI techniques to analyze all collected data so we combine collected data from not only the system's configuration but also with other systems from across the Red Hat customer base this allows us to compare ourselves to how we're doing across the entire set of industries including our own vertical in this case the financial services industry and we can compare ourselves to other customers we also get access to tailored recommendations that let us know what we can do to optimize our systems so in this particular case we're actually detecting an issue here where we are an outlier so our configuration has been compared to other configurations across the customer base and in this particular instance in this security group were misconfigured and so insights actually gives us the steps that we need to use to remediate the situation and the really neat thing here is that we actually get access to a custom ansible playbook so if we want to automate that type of a remediation we can use this inside of Red Hat ansible tower Red Hat satellite Red Hat cloud forms it's really really powerful the other thing here is that we can actually apply these recommendations right from within the Red Hat insights interface so with just a few clicks I can select all the recommendations that insights is making and using that built-in ansible automation I can apply those recommendations really really quickly across a variety of systems this type of intelligent automation is really cool it's really fast and powerful so really quickly here we're going to see the impact of those changes and so we can tell that we're doing a little better than we were a few minutes ago when compared across the customer base as well as within the financial industry and if we go back and look at the map we should see that our AWS employment in Ohio is in a much better state than it was just a few minutes ago so I'm wondering Ted if this had any effect and might be helping with some of the issues that you were seeing let's take a look looks like went green now let's see what it looks like over here yeah doesn't look like the configuration is taking effect quite yet maybe there's some delay awesome fantastic the man yeah so now we're load balancing across the three clouds very much fantastic well I have two minute Ted I truly love how we can route requests and dynamically load transactions across these three clouds a truly hybrid cloud native application you guys saw here on on stage for the first time and it's a fully portable application if you build your applications with openshift you can mover from cloud to cloud to cloud on stage private all the way out to the public said it's totally awesome we also have the application being fully managed by Red Hat insights I love having that intelligence watching over us and ensuring that we're doing everything correctly that is fundamentally awesome thank you so much for that well we actually have more to show you but you're going to wait a few minutes longer right now we'd like to welcome Paul back to the stage and we have a very special early Red Hat customer an Innovation Award winner from 2010 who's been going boldly forward with their open hybrid cloud strategy please give a warm welcome to Monty Finkelstein from Citigroup [Music] [Music] hi Marty hey Paul nice to see you thank you very much for coming so thank you for having me Oh our pleasure if you if you wanted to we sort of wanted to pick your brain a little bit about your experiences and sort of leading leading the charge in computing here so we're all talking about hybrid cloud how has the hybrid cloud strategy influenced where you are today in your computing environment so you know when we see the variable the various types of workload that we had an hour on from cloud we see the peaks we see the valleys we see the demand on the environment that we have we really determined that we have to have a much more elastic more scalable capability so we can burst and stretch our environments to multiple cloud providers these capabilities have now been proven at City and of course we consider what the data risk is as well as any regulatory requirement so how do you how do you tackle the complexity of multiple cloud environments so every cloud provider has its own unique set of capabilities they have they're own api's distributions value-added services we wanted to make sure that we could arbitrate between the different cloud providers maintain all source code and orchestration capabilities on Prem to drive those capabilities from within our platforms this requires controlling the entitlements in a cohesive fashion across our on Prem and Wolfram both for security services automation telemetry as one seamless unit can you talk a bit about how you decide when you to use your own on-premise infrastructure versus cloud resources sure so there are multiple dimensions that we take into account right so the first dimension we talk about the risk so low risk - high risk and and really that's about the data classification of the environment we're talking about so whether it's public or internal which would be considered low - ooh confidential PII restricted sensitive and so on and above which is really what would be considered a high-risk the second dimension would be would focus on demand volatility and responsiveness sensitivity so this would range from low response sensitivity and low variability of the type of workload that we have to the high response sensitivity and high variability of the workload the first combination that we focused on is the low risk and high variability and high sensitivity for response type workload of course any of the workloads we ensure that we're regulatory compliant as well as we achieve customer benefits with within this environment so how can we give developers greater control of their their infrastructure environments and still help operations maintain that consistency in compliance so the main driver is really to use the public cloud is scale speed and increased developer efficiencies as well as reducing cost as well as risk this would mean providing develop workspaces and multiple environments for our developers to quickly create products for our customers all this is done of course in a DevOps model while maintaining the source and artifacts registry on-prem this would allow our developers to test and select various middleware products another product but also ensure all the compliance activities in a centrally controlled repository so we really really appreciate you coming by and sharing that with us today Monte thank you so much for coming to the red echo thanks a lot thanks again tamati I mean you know there's these real world insight into how our products and technologies are really running the businesses today that's that's just the most exciting part so thank thanks thanks again mati no even it with as much progress as you've seen demonstrated here and you're going to continue to see all week long we're far from done so I want to just take us a little bit into the path forward and where we we go today we've talked about this a lot innovation today is driven by open source development I don't think there's any question about that certainly not in this room and even across the industry as a whole that's a long way that we've come from when we started our first summit 14 years ago with over a million open source projects out there this unit this innovation aggregates into various community platforms and it finally culminates in commercial open source based open source developed products these products run many of the mission-critical applications in business today you've heard just a couple of those today here on stage but it's everywhere it's running the world today but to make customers successful with that interact innovation to run their real-world business applications these open source products have to be able to leverage increase increasingly complex infrastructure footprints we must also ensure a common base for the developer and ultimately the application no matter which footprint they choose as you heard mati say the developers want choice here no matter which no matter which footprint they are ultimately going to run their those applications on they want that flexibility from the data center to possibly any public cloud out there in regardless of whether that application was built yesterday or has been running the business for the last 10 years and was built on 10-year old technology this is the flexibility that developers require today but what does different infrastructure we may require different pieces of the technical stack in that deployment one example of this that Effects of many things as KVM which provides the foundation for many of those use cases that require virtualization KVM offers a level of consistency from a technical perspective but rel extends that consistency to add a level of commercial and ecosystem consistency for the application across all those footprints this is very important in the enterprise but while rel and KVM formed the foundation other technologies are needed to really satisfy the functions on these different footprints traditional virtualization has requirements that are satisfied by projects like overt and products like Rev traditional traditional private cloud implementations has requirements that are satisfied on projects like OpenStack and products like Red Hat OpenStack platform and as applications begin to become more container based we are seeing many requirements driven driven natively into containers the same Linux in different forms provides this common base across these four footprints this level of compatible compatibility is critical to operators who must best utilize the infinite must better utilize secure and deploy the infrastructure that they have and they're responsible for developers on the other hand they care most about having a platform that can creates that consistency for their applications they care about their services and the services that they need to consume within those applications and they don't want limitations on where they run they want service but they want it anywhere not necessarily just from Amazon they want integration between applications no matter where they run they still want to run their Java EE now named Jakarta EE apps and bring those applications forward into containers and micro services they need able to orchestrate these frameworks and many more across all these different footprints in a consistent secure fashion this creates natural tension between development and operations frankly customers amplify this tension with organizational boundaries that are holdover from the UNIX era of computing it's really the job of our platforms to seamlessly remove these boundaries and it's the it's the goal of RedHat to seamlessly get you from the old world to the new world we're gonna show you a really cool demo demonstration now we're gonna show you how you can automate this transition first we're gonna take a Windows virtual machine from a traditional VMware deployment we're gonna convert it into a KVM based virtual machine running in a container all under the kubernetes umbrella this makes virtual machines more access more accessible to the developer this will accelerate the transformation of those virtual machines into cloud native container based form well we will work this prot we will worked as capability over the product line in the coming releases so we can strike the balance of enabling our developers to move in this direction we want to be able to do this while enabling mission-critical operations to still do their job so let's bring Byrne his team back up to show you this in action for one more thanks all right what Red Hat we recognized that large organizations large enterprises have a substantial investment and legacy virtualization technology and this is holding you back you have thousands of virtual machines that need to be modernized so what you're about to see next okay it's something very special with me here on stage we have James Lebowski he's gonna be walking us through he's represents our operations folks and he's gonna be walking us through a mass migration but also is Itamar Hine who's our lead developer of a very special application and he's gonna be modernizing container izing and optimizing our application all right so let's get started James thanks burr yeah so as you can see I have a typical VMware environment here I'm in the vSphere client I've got a number of virtual machines a handful of them that make up my one of my applications for my development environment in this case and what I want to do is migrate those over to a KVM based right at virtualization environment so what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to cloud forms our cloud management platform that's our first step and you know cloud forms actually already has discovered both my rev environment and my vSphere environment and understands the compute network and storage there so you'll notice one of the capabilities we built is this new capability called migrations and underneath here I could begin to there's two steps and the first thing I need to do is start to create my infrastructure mappings what this will allow me to do is map my compute networking storage between vSphere and Rev so cloud forms understands how those relate let's go ahead and create an infrastructure mapping I'll call that summit infrastructure mapping and then I'm gonna begin to map my two environments first the compute so the clusters here next the data stores so those virtual machines happen to live on datastore - in vSphere and I'll target them a datastore data to inside of my revenue Arman and finally my networks those live on network 100 so I'll map those from vSphere to rover so once my infrastructure is map the next step I need to do is actually begin to create a plan to migrate those virtual machines so I'll continue to the plan wizard here I'll select the infrastructure mapping I just created and I'll select migrate my development environment from those virtual machines to Rev and then I need to import a CSV file the CSV file is going to contain a list of all the virtual machines that I want to migrate that were there and that's it once I hit create what's going to happen cloud forms is going to begin in an automated fashion shutting down those virtual machines begin converting them taking care of all the minutia that you'd have to do manually it's gonna do that all automatically for me so I don't have to worry about all those manual interactions and no longer do I have to go manually shut them down but it's going to take care of that all for me you can see the migrations kicked off here this is the I've got the my VMs are migrating here and if I go back to the screen here you can see that we're gonna start seeing those shutdown okay awesome but as people want to know more information about this how would they dive deeper into this technology later this week yeah it's a great question so we have a workload portability session in the hybrid cloud on Wednesday if you want to see a presentation that deep dives into this topic and how some of the methodologies to migrate and then on Thursday we actually have a hands-on lab it's the IT optimization VM migration lab that you can check out and as you can see those are shutting down here yeah we see a powering off right now that's fantastic absolutely so if I go back now that's gonna take a while you got to convert all the disks and move them over but we'll notice is previously I had already run one migration of a single application that was a Windows virtual machine running and if I browse over to Red Hat virtualization I can see on the dashboard here I could browse to virtual machines I have migrated that Windows virtual machine and if I open up a tab I can now browse to my Windows virtual machine which is running our wingtip toy store application our sample application here and now my VM has been moved over from Rev to Vita from VMware to Rev and is available for Itamar all right great available to our developers all right Itamar what are you gonna do for us here well James it's great that you can save cost by moving from VMware to reddit virtualization but I want to containerize our application and with container native virtualization I can run my virtual machine on OpenShift like any other container using Huebert a kubernetes operator to run and manage virtual machines let's look at the open ship service catalog you can see we have a new virtualization section here we can import KVM or VMware virtual machines or if there are already loaded we can create new instances of them for the developer to work with just need to give named CPU memory we can do other virtualization parameters and create our virtual machines now let's see how this looks like in the openshift console the cool thing about KVM is virtual machines are just Linux processes so they can act and behave like other open shipped applications we build in more than a decade of virtualization experience with KVM reddit virtualization and OpenStack and can now benefit from kubernetes and open shift to manage and orchestrate our virtual machines since we know this virtual machine this container is actually a virtual machine we can do virtual machine stuff with it like shutdown reboot or open a remote desktop session to it but we can also see this is just a container like any other container in openshift and even though the web application is running inside a Windows virtual machine the developer can still use open shift mechanisms like services and routes let's browse our web application using the OpenShift service it's the same wingtip toys application but this time the virtual machine is running on open shift but we're not done we want to containerize our application since it's a Windows virtual machine we can open a remote desktop session to it we see we have here Visual Studio and an asp.net application let's start container izing by moving the Microsoft sequel server database from running inside the Windows virtual machine to running on Red Hat Enterprise Linux as an open shipped container we'll go back to the open shipped Service Catalog this time we'll go to the database section and just as easily we'll create a sequel server container just need to accept the EULA provide password and choose the Edition we want and create a database and again we can see the sequel server is just another container running on OpenShift now let's take let's find the connection details for our database to keep this simple we'll take the IP address of our database service go back to the web application to visual studio update the IP address in the connection string publish our application and go back to browse it through OpenShift fortunately for us the user experience team heard we're modernizing our application so they pitched in and pushed new icons to use with our containerized database to also modernize the look and feel it's still the same wingtip toys application it's running in a virtual machine on openshift but it's now using a containerized database to recap we saw that we can run virtual machines natively on openshift like any other container based application modernize and mesh them together we containerize the database but we can use the same approach to containerize any part of our application so some items here to deserve repeating one thing you saw is Red Hat Enterprise Linux burning sequel server in a container on open shift and you also saw Windows VM where the dotnet native application also running inside of open ships so tell us what's special about that that seems pretty crazy what you did there exactly burr if we take a look under the hood we can use the kubernetes commands to see the list of our containers in this case the sequel server and the virtual machine containers but since Q Bert is a kubernetes operator we can actually use kubernetes commands like cube Cpl to list our virtual machines and manage our virtual machines like any other entity in kubernetes I love that so there's your crew meta gem oh we can see the kind says virtual machine that is totally awesome now people here are gonna be very excited about what they just saw we're gonna get more information and when will this be coming well you know what can they do to dive in this will be available as part of reddit Cloud suite in tech preview later this year but we are looking for early adopters now so give us a call also come check our deep dive session introducing container native virtualization Thursday 2:00 p.m. awesome that is so incredible so we went from the old to the new from the close to the open the Red Hat way you're gonna be seeing more from our demonstration team that's coming Thursday at 8 a.m. do not be late if you like what you saw this today you're gonna see a lot more of that going forward so we got some really special things in store for you so at this point thank you so much in tomorrow thank you so much you guys are awesome yeah now we have one more special guest a very early adopter of Red Hat Enterprise Linux we've had over a 12-year partnership and relationship with this organization they've been a steadfast Linux and middleware customer for many many years now please extend a warm welcome to Raj China from the Royal Bank of Canada thank you thank you it's great to be here RBC is a large global full-service is back we have the largest bank in Canada top 10 global operate in 30 countries and run five key business segments personal commercial banking investor in Treasury services capital markets wealth management and insurance but honestly unless you're in the banking segment those five business segments that I just mentioned may not mean a lot to you but what you might appreciate is the fact that we've been around in business for over 150 years we started our digital transformation journey about four years ago and we are focused on new and innovative technologies that will help deliver the capabilities and lifestyle our clients are looking for we have a very simple vision and we often refer to it as the digitally enabled bank of the future but as you can appreciate transforming a hundred fifty year old Bank is not easy it certainly does not happen overnight to that end we had a clear unwavering vision a very strong innovation agenda and most importantly a focus towards a flawless execution today in banking business strategy and IT strategy are one in the same they are not two separate things we believe that in order to be the number one bank we have to have the number one tactic there is no question that most of today's innovations happens in the open source community RBC relies on RedHat as a key partner to help us consume these open source innovations in a manner that it meets our enterprise needs RBC was an early adopter of Linux we operate one of the largest footprints of rel in Canada same with tables we had tremendous success in driving cost out of infrastructure by partnering with rahat while at the same time delivering a world-class hosting service to your business over our 12 year partnership Red Hat has proven that they have mastered the art of working closely with the upstream open source community understanding the needs of an enterprise like us in delivering these open source innovations in a manner that we can consume and build upon we are working with red hat to help increase our agility and better leverage public and private cloud offerings we adopted virtualization ansible and containers and are excited about continuing our partnership with Red Hat in this journey throughout this journey we simply cannot replace everything we've had from the past we have to bring forward these investments of the past and improve upon them with new and emerging technologies it is about utilizing emerging technologies but at the same time focusing on the business outcome the business outcome for us is serving our clients and delivering the information that they are looking for whenever they need it and in whatever form factor they're looking for but technology improvements alone are simply not sufficient to do a digital transformation creating the right culture of change and adopting new methodologies is key we introduced agile and DevOps which has boosted the number of adult projects at RBC and increase the frequency at which we do new releases to our mobile app as a matter of fact these methodologies have enabled us to deliver apps over 20x faster than before the other point about around culture that I wanted to mention was we wanted to build an engineering culture an engineering culture is one which rewards curiosity trying new things investing in new technologies and being a leader not necessarily a follower Red Hat has been a critical partner in our journey to date as we adopt elements of open source culture in engineering culture what you seen today about red hearts focus on new technology innovations while never losing sight of helping you bring forward the investments you've already made in the past is something that makes Red Hat unique we are excited to see red arts investment in leadership in open source technologies to help bring the potential of these amazing things together thank you that's great the thing you know seeing going from the old world to the new with automation so you know the things you've seen demonstrated today they're they're they're more sophisticated than any one company could ever have done on their own certainly not by using a proprietary development model because of this it's really easy to see why open source has become the center of gravity for enterprise computing today with all the progress open-source has made we're constantly looking for new ways of accelerating that into our products so we can take that into the enterprise with customers like these that you've met what you've met today now we recently made in addition to the Red Hat family we brought in core OS to the Red Hat family and you know adding core OS has really been our latest move to accelerate that innovation into our products this will help the adoption of open shift container platform even deeper into the enterprise and as we did with the Linux core platform in 2002 this is just exactly what we did with with Linux back then today we're announcing some exciting new technology directions first we'll integrate the benefits of automated operations so for example you'll see dramatic improvements in the automated intelligence about the state of your clusters in OpenShift with the core OS additions also as part of open shift will include a new variant of rel called Red Hat core OS maintaining the consistency of rel farhat for the operation side of the house while allowing for a consumption of over-the-air updates from the kernel to kubernetes later today you'll hear how we are extending automated operations beyond customers and even out to partners all of this starting with the next release of open shift in July now all of this of course will continue in an upstream open source innovation model that includes continuing container linux for the community users today while also evolving the commercial products to bring that innovation out to the enterprise this this combination is really defining the platform of the future everything we've done for the last 16 years since we first brought rel to the commercial market because get has been to get us just to this point hybrid cloud computing is now being deployed multiple times in enterprises every single day all powered by the open source model and powered by the open source model we will continue to redefine the software industry forever no in 2002 with all of you we made Linux the choice for enterprise computing this changed the innovation model forever and I started the session today talking about our prediction of seven years ago on the future being open we've all seen so much happen in those in those seven years we at Red Hat have celebrated our 25th anniversary including 16 years of rel and the enterprise it's now 2018 open hybrid cloud is not only a reality but it is the driving model in enterprise computing today and this hybrid cloud world would not even be possible without Linux as a platform in the open source development model a build around it and while we have think we may have accomplished a lot in that time and we may think we have changed the world a lot we have but I'm telling you the best is yet to come now that Linux and open source software is firmly driving that innovation in the enterprise what we've accomplished today and up till now has just set the stage for us together to change the world once again and just as we did with rel more than 15 years ago with our partners we will make hybrid cloud the default in the enterprise and I will take that bet every single day have a great show and have fun watching the future of computing unfold right in front of your eyes see you later [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] anytime [Music]

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube covering Dell Technologies World 2018. Brought to you by Dell EMC and its ecosystem partners. >> We're back at Dell Technologies World. It's the inaugural Dell Technologies World. You're watchin' The Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vallante, and I'm really excited to have Sanjay Poonen on, COO of VMWare, long-time Cube alum. Great to see you, my friend. >> Always great, Dave. >> Thanks again so much for makin' time. I know you're in and out, but things are good. We had Pat on, on Monday. You guys made the call early on. You said to the industry, you know, I think the industry handed us and maybe the forecasts are a little bit conservative. We're seeing great demand. We love our business right now, and it's comin' true. Data centers booming, VMWare's kickin' butt. It's goin' great. >> You know it's been obviously a very good couple of years, since the Dell EMC merger. It's really helped us, and you know, when we think about our partnerships, we put this in a very special place. In the last two years, partnerships like Dell and AWS have been very instrumental, built on top of the partnerships we've had for many years. And our core principles at VMWare have not changed. We're really focused on software defining the data center. Why? Because it makes you more agile, removes costs, reduces complexity, makes the planet more green. We think we've got a long way to go in just building that private cloud, making the data center feel like a cloud. That's priority number one. Priority number two, extending tno the hybrid cloud. Last time we talked was at AWS Reinvent. That's very important. We're doing a bit of work there at AWS and many other clouds. And user computing, making sure that every one of these type of devices are secure and managed, whether it's Apple devices, Google, or Microsoft. Those three priorities have still stayed the same, and now Dell's comin' to give us a lot more of that sort of draft, to help us do that inside the Dell EMC customer base, too. >> Yeah, I mean you guys are doin' it again, the whole, NSX obviously is booming. >> Sanjay: Big launch this week. >> You know, it's funny, the whole software-defined networking thing. Everybody flocked to it. VCs flocked to it. You guys changed the game with that Nycera acquisition. I mean, could you imagine, I guess you did imagine what it was going to become, I mean it's really taken off in a big way. >> Bold move. I got to give credit to the, I mean I wasn't at the company at the time, but I got to tell you, when I saw that I was stunned. Paying 1.2 billion for a company that didn't have much revenue. But here we are. We talked about it in our earnings call being a 1.4 billion one rate business. 4,500 hundred customers. We were zero customers five years ago when we did the acquisition, and what we really defined is that the future of networking is going to be software-defined, clearly, and it's much the same way a Tesla is transforming the automotive industry, right? What's the value of a Tesla? It's not just the hardware, but the software that's changing the way in which you drive, park, all of the mapping, all of that stuff. We believe the same way the networking industry's going to go through mighty revolution. We think the data center gets more efficeint and driven through software. The path into the into the public cloud, and the path to the branch, and that's what we as we launched our virtual cloud networking. It's extremely differentiated in the industry. We're the only ones really pioneering that, and we think it's extremely visionary. And we're excited to take our customers on this journey. It was a big launch for us this week, and we think NSX is just getting started. 4500 customers is about 1% of our roughly 500,000 customers Every single one of them should be looking at NSX. Big opportunity ahead of us. >> Huge. And the cloud play, we talked about this at VM World last summer. The clarity now that your customers have. They can now make bets for a couple of cycles anyway, really having confidence in your cloud strategy. You've seen that, I'm sure, in your customer base. >> We have, and you know, it started off by telling the world that the 4,000 service providers that have built their stack on VMWare, VMWare Cloud Providers, VCPP, are all going to be very special to us as they build out their clouds, often in many specialized country that have country-specific cloud requirements. But the we're going to take the public clouds and systematically start working them. IBM cloud was the first, When they acquired software we had a strong relationship with them, announced two or three years ago. And then I think the world was shocked. It was almost, as I've described on the media, a Berlin Wall moment, when AWS and VMWare came together because it sort of felt like the United States and Soviet German in 1987, okay? And you know, here we have these two companies, really workin'. That's worked out very well for us, and then we've done systematic other things with Azure, Google, and so on and so forth, and we'll see how the public cloud plays out, but we think that that hybrid cloud bridge. We're going to be probably the only company who can really play a very pivotal role in the world moving from private cloud to public cloud and there's going to be balance on both sides of that divide. >> So you really essentially are trying to become the infrastructure for the digital world now, aren't you? Talk about that a little bit. You're seeing new workloads, obviously AI's all the buzz. You guys are doing some work in blockchains. It's going to take a while for all that to pick up, but really it's the ability and containers is the other thing. Everybody thought, oh containers, that's the end of VMs, and Pat at the time said, no no no, you guys don't understand. Let me explain it. He sort of laid it out. You seem to be embracing that, again embracing change. >> I got to tell you, that one for me because I'll tell you when I first joined the company four and a half years ago, I was at SAP. I asked Pat two questions. I said the public cloud's going to, I mean, probably take out VMWare, aren't you concerned with Amazon. Here we are taking that headwind and making a tailwind. The second was like, everyone's talking about Docker. Aren't containers going to just destroy VMs? And that one wasn't as clear to us at the time, but we were patient. And what happened we started to notice in the last few years. We began to notice on GitHub tremendous amount of activity around Kubernetes, and here comes Google almost taking the top off of a lot of you know parts of Docker Two, Docker Swarm, Enterprise, Docker still remains a very good container format, but the orchestration layers become a Google-based project called Kubernetes. And I think our waiting allowed us and pivotal to embrace Google in the partnership that we announced last year. And we plan to become the de facto enterprise container platform. If VMs became the VM in VMWare and we have 500,000 customers, tens of millions of VMs, you'd think we could multiply those VMs by some number to get number of containers. VMWare has its rightful place, a birthright, to become the de facto enterprise container platform. We're just getting started, both between us and Pivotal, the Kubernetes investment, Big deal. And we're going to do it in partnership with companies like Google. >> I want to ask you about Pivotal. When Joe Tucci was the swansong in the MC world, he came out with an analyst meeting and we asked them, if you had a mulligan, you know, what would you do over again. He said, you know, we're going to answer it this way. He said, I wished I had done more to bring together the family, you know, the federation. We laid that vision out, and I probably, he said, personally I probably could've done more. I feel like Michael has taken this on. I almost feel like Joe, when he laughs at Michael. My one piece of advice is do a better job than I did with that integration. And it seems like Michael's takin' that on as an outsider. What can you tell us about the relationship between all the companies, particularly Pivotal. >> Yeah, you know Joe's a very special man, as our chairman, and Joe and Pat are the reasons I joined VMWare, and so I have tremendous respect for them. And he stayed on as an advisor to Mike O'Dell. And I think Mike O'Dell just took a lot of those things and improved on it. I wouldn't say that anything was dramatically bad, but you know he tightened up much of the places where we could work together. One material change was having the Dell EMC reps carry quota, for example VMWare. They're incetivized. That has been a huge difference to allow us to have our sales forces completely align together. Big big huge difference. I mean, sales people care about our product when they're compensated, carry quota on it, and drive it. The second aspect was in many of these places where Dell and VMWare or VMWare and Pivotal were needed to just take obstacles out of the way, and I don't think Pivotal would've been really successful if it had stayed in VMWare four or five years ago. So Paul Mertz leaving, the genius of that whole move, which Joe orchesthrated, and allowing them to flourish. Okay, here they have four or five years, they've gone public. They have a tremendous amount of traction. Then last year, we began to see that Kubernetes Coming back allowed us to get closer to them, okay? We didn't need to do that necessarily by saying that Pivotal needs to be part of VMWare. We just needed to build a joint engineering effort around Kubernetes And make that enormously successful. So you get the best of both worlds. We're an investor, obviously, in Pivotal. We're proud of their success in the public markets. We benefit some from that sort of idea process, but at the same time we want to make sure this Kubernetes Effort and the broader app platform, our cloud foundry, is enormously successful, and every one of our customers who have VMs starts looking containers. >> Well, I always said Pivotal was formed with a bunch of misfit toys that just didn't seem to fit into VMWare. >> Sanjay: It's come a long way. >> And you took that, but it was smart because you took it and said, here it is. Let's start figuring that out. Who better to do that than Paul? And it's really come together and obviously a very successful. >> Yeah, Rob, Scott, Bill, Yara, many of that team there. They're passionate about developers, okay? We understand the infratstructure role very well, but when you can get dev and ops together, in a way they collaborate, so we're excited about it. And we have a key part for us, we have a very simple mission: to make the container platform just very secure. What's the differenetiation between us and other companies trying to build container platforms? NSX? So our contribution into that is to take Kubernetes Watch for some of the management capabilities, and then add NSX to it, highly differentiate it. And now all of a sudden customers say, this is the reason why I mean, 'cause every container brings a place where the port could be insecure. NSX makes that secture, and we think that that's another key part to what's made NSX the launch this week extremely sepcial is that its story relates to cloud and containers. Those two Cs, I would say, cloud and containers. We've taken what were headwinds to us, VMWare over the last four or five years, and made them tailwinds. And for us that's been a tremendous learnnig lesson, not just I would say in our own technology road map, but in leadership and management. That's important for us as business leaders, too. >> Dave: And I got to give some love to my friends in the Vsin world, Yen Bing and those guys. Obviously Vsin doin' very well. Give us the update there. I mean, you're doin', he's doin' exactly what you said: we're going to do to networking and storage what we did to compute. >> I mean, again you know, when we start things off. If you'll remember, three or four years ago, we were confusing EMC and VMWare, Evo, Rails, some of those things. We just had to clean that up. And as Dell EMC came together and VMWare, we said, listen. We're going to do software-defined storage really well because it has a very close synergy point to the Kubernetes I mean, we know a lot about storage because it's very closely connected to Compute. And if we could do that better than anybody else, and in the meantime all these startups were doing reasonably well, Simplicity, Nutanics, Pivotry, so on and so forth. I mean there's no reason if we don't have our act together we could build the best software-defined storage and then engineer a system together with Dell that has the software, and that's what VX rails has become. So a few false stubs of the toe when we started off, you know three or four years ago, but we've come a long way. Pat talked about over 10,000 customers at the revenue run rate that we announced last year, and a 600 million run rate at the end of Q4. We believe we are, for just the software piece, we are the de facto leader, and we have to continue to make customers happy and to drive, you know, this as the future of hyper converge infrastructure because converged had its place. And now the coming together of Compute Storage, over time networking with a layer of management, that's the future of the data center. >> Yeah, I was watching. THere's some good, interesting maneuvering goin' on in the marketplace. A lot of fun for a company like ours to watch. I want to talk about leadership. There's a great, you got to go to Sanjay's LinkedIn profile. There's an awesome video on there. It's like a mini TED talk that some of your folks mashed up and put out there. It's only about eight minutes. But I want to touch on some of the things that I learned from that video. Your background, I mean I knew you came from India. You came over at 18 years old, right? >> Sanjay: I was very fortunate. I grew up in a poor home in India, and I came here only because I got a scholarship to go to Dartmouth College. And I think I might have been one of the few brown-skinned guys in Hanover, New Hampshire. I mean, you've been there, you know there's not much Indian goin' on here. (laughter) But I'm very forutnate. And this country is a very special country to immigrants, if you work hard and if you're willing to apply yourself. I'm a product of that hard work. And now as an Indian American living in California. So I feel very fortunate for all that both the country and people who invested in me over the last many decades have helped me become who I am. >> So you were on a scholarship to Dartmouth. >> Yes, that's right. >> As a student in India. So obviously an accomplished student in India, and you said, you know, I got bullied a little bit. I had the glasses, right? Somebody once told me, Dave, don't peak in high school. It's good advice, right? So it was funny to hear you tell that story because I see you as such a charismatic, dynamic leader. I can't picture you as, you know, a little kid getting bullied. >> We were always geeks at one point in time, but one of the things my mother and dad always taught me, especially my mom, who had a tremendous influence on my life and is my hero, is, listen, don't worry what people say about you, okay? Your home is always going to feel a safety and a fortress to us, and I appreciate the fact that irrespective of what happened on the playground, if I was bullied, at home I knew it was secure. And I seek to have that same attitude twoards my children and everybody I consider my extended family, people at work, and so on and so forth. But once you've done that, you don't build your identity just to what people say about you. You're going to build your identity over what's done over a long period of time, okay? With, of course, if everybody in the world hates you, that's a tough place. That's happened to a few people in the world. I wasn't in that state at all. And as I came to this country, just got tougher because I was a minority in a place. But many of those lessons I learned as a young boy helped me as an 18 year old, as I came here, and I'm very thankful for that. >> And you came here with no money, alright? >> A scholarship. >> Right. >> Maybe 50 bucks in the pocket. >> You had 50 bucks and an opportunity, and made the most of it. And then obviously you did very well at Dartmouth. You graduated from Harvard, right? >> I did my MBA at Harvard. >> MBA at Harvard, probably met some interesting people there. >> Andy Jackson being one of them. >> I know he's a friend of yours. >> Sam Berg, who's the head of the client business, was also a classmate of mine at HBS. The '97 class of HBS had some accomplished people: Chris Kapensky is running McDonald's. She's President of US. So I'm very fortunate to have some good classmates there. >> So what did you do? Did you go right to Harvard from? >> No, I spent four years working at Apple. And then went back to do my business school. >> And then what'd you do after that? >> I came back to Silicon Valley at a startup. I was one of the founding product managers at AlphaBlocks. Then went to Informatica. And bulk of my time was at SAP, and most of my life was in the analytics, big data business. What we called big data at the time. >> And that's when we first met it. >> Analytics at BI, and then when Joe and Pat called me for this, the end-user computing role at VMWare four and a half years ago. That's when I came to VMWare. >> And that was a huge coup for VMWare. We knew you from SAP, and that business was struggling. You always give credit to your team, of course. Awesome. Which is what a good leader does. The other thing I wanted to touch on before we break is, you talked about leadership and how importatn it is to embrace cahnge. You said you have three choices when change hits you. What are those three choices? >> You either embrace it, okay? You either stand on the sidelines or you leave. And that's typically what happens in any kind of change, whether it's change in work, change in fafmilies, change in other kinds of religious settings, I mean it's a time-old prinicple. And you want to let the people who are not on board with it leave if they want to leave. The people who are staying in the middle and not yet convinced, you'll hope they'll do. But they cannot yet throw the grenades, 'cause then they're just going to be. And you want to take that nucleus of people who are with you in the change to help you get the people who sit on the sidelines in. And to me when I joined VMWare, the end-user computing team had the highest attrition, okay, and the lowest satisfaction. And I found the same thing. There were popel who were leaving in droves. Some people sittin' on the sidelines, but a core group of people I loved that were willing to really work with me, 'cause I didn't really know a lot about it. The smarter people were in the team and some people that we hired in. We had to take that group and become the chagne agents, and when that happens it's a beautiful thing because from within starts to form this thing that's the phoenix rising out of the ashes. And the company, and then these people who are sidelineers start to get involved. New people want to join. Now everybody wants to be part of the end-user computing team at VMWare because we're a winner, but it wasn't that way four and a half years ago. Same thing in cloud. How are we going to transform this cloud business to be one where, VCloudAir. We're being made fun of, like how are you ever going to compete with Amazon. We had to go through our own catharsis. We divested that business, but out of that pain point came a fundamental change. Some people left. Some people stayed, but I'm just grateful through all of this that we learned a tremendous amount. I think change is the most definitive thing that happens to every company, and you have to embrace it. If you embrace chance, it's going to make you a much stronger leader. I'll tell you, the Mandarin word, okay, for crisis is two symbols: one that shows disaster and one that shows opportunity. I choose the opportunity side. >> Dave: You choose? Right? Yeah! >> And eveyrone makes that choice, right? And if you make the right path, it could be a beautiful learning experience. >> Sanjay, words to live by. Definitely check out that video on Sanjay's profile. >> It's on LinkedIn. >> Really fabulous always to sit down and talk to you. >> Always a pleasure, Dave. Congratulations to all your success. >> Dave: Thank you! I really appreaciate your support. >> Thank you. >> Alright, everybody that's it from Dell Technologies World 2018. You can hear the music behind us. Next week, big week. We've got Red Hat Summit. I'll be at Service Now Knowledge. We got a couple of other shows and tons of shows coming up. I don't know, you were at Vmon last year. I don't know if you're going to be there this year, maybe maybe not, we'll see. >> Well we got a big one coming up at VM World. We'll see you there. >> We got big one coming up, VM World, at the end of August through early September, which is back at Mosconi this year? >> It's back at Las Vegas still. One more thing and then it's going back to Mosconi after the construction's over. >> So go to theCUBE.net, check out all the shows. Thanks for watching, everybody. We'll see you next time. (digital music)