>> live from San Francisco, California. It's the Q covering the IBM Chief Data Officer Summit brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to Fisherman's Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco. Everybody, my name is David wanted. You're watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage, you ought to events. We extract the signal from the noise. We're here. The IBM CDO event. This is the 10th anniversary of this event. Caitlin Hallford is here. She's the director of a I Accelerator and client success at IBM. Caitlin, great to see you again. Wow. 10 years. Amazing. They and Carlo Apple Apple Glace e is here. Who is the program director for data and a I at IBM. Because you again, my friend. Thanks for coming on to Cuba. Lums. Wow, this is 10 years, and I think the Cube is covered. Probably eight of these now. Yeah, kind of. We bounce between San Francisco and Boston to great places for CEOs. Good places to have intimate events, but and you're taking it global. I understand. Congratulations. Congratulations on the promotion. Thank you. Going. Thank you so much. >> So we, as you know well are well, no. We started our chief date officer summits in San Francisco here, and it's gone 2014. So this is our 10th 1 We do two a year. We found we really have a unique cohort of clients. The join us about 100 40 in San Francisco on the spring 140 in Boston in the fall, and we're here celebrating the 10th 10 Summit. >> So, Carlo, talk about your role and then let's get into how you guys, you know, work together. How you hand the baton way we'll get to the client piece. >> So I lead the Data Center League team, which is a group within our product development, working side by side with clients really to understand their needs as well developed, use cases on our platform and tools and make sure we are able to deliver on those. And then we work closely with the CDO team, the global CEO team on best practices, what patterns they're seeing from an architecture perspective. Make sure that our platforms really incorporating that stuff. >> And if I recall the data science that lead team is its presales correct and could >> be posted that it could, it really depends on the client, so it could be prior to them buying software or after they bought the software. If they need the help, we can also come in. >> Okay, so? So it can be a for pay service. Is that correct or Yeah, we can >> before pay. Or sometimes we do it based on just our relation with >> It's kind of a mixed then. Right? Okay, so you're learning the client's learning, so they're obviously good, good customers. And so you want to treat him right >> now? How do you guys work >> together? Maybe Caitlin, you can explain. The two organizations >> were often the early testers, early adopters of some of the capabilities. And so what we'll do is we'll test will literally will prove it out of skill internally using IBM itself as an example. And then, as we build out the capability, work with Carlo and his team to really drive that in a product and drive that into market, and we share a lot of client relationships where CEOs come to us, they're want advice and counsel on best practices across the organization. And they're looking for latest applications to deploy deploy known environments and so we can capture a lot of that feedback in some of the market user testing proved that out. Using IBM is an example and then work with you to really commercialized and bring it to market in the most efficient manner. >> You were talking this morning. You had a picture up of the first CDO event. No Internet, no wife in the basement. I love it. So how is this evolved from a theme standpoint? What do you What are the patterns? Sure. So when >> we started this, it was really a response. Thio primarily financial service is sector regulatory requirements, trying to get data right to meet those regulatory compliance initiatives. Defensive posture certainly weren't driving transformation within their enterprises. And what I've seen is a couple of those core elements are still key for us or data governance and data management. And some of those security access controls are always going to be important. But we're finding his videos more and more, have expanded scope of responsibilities with the enterprise they're looked at as a leader. They're no longer sitting within a c i o function there either appear or, you know, working in partnership with, and they're driving enterprise wide, you know, initiatives for the for their enterprises and organizations, which has been great to see. >> So we all remember when you know how very and declared data science was gonna be the number one job, and it actually kind of has become. I think I saw somewhere, maybe in Glass door was anointed that the top job, which is >> kind of cool to see. So what are you seeing >> with customers, Carlo? You guys, you have these these blueprints, you're now applying them, accelerating different industries. You mentioned health care this morning. >> What are some >> of those industry accelerators And how is that actually coming to fruition? Yes. >> So some of the things we're seeing is speaking of financial clients way go into a lot of them. We do these one on one engagements, we build them from custom. We co create these engineering solutions, our platform, and we're seeing patterns, patterns around different use cases that are coming up over and over again. And the one thing about data science Aye, aye. It's difficult to develop a solution because everybody's date is different. Everybody's business is different. So what we're trying to do is build these. We can't just build a widget that's going to solve the problem, because then you have to force your data into that, and we're seeing that that doesn't really work. So building a platform for these clients. But these accelerators, which are a set of core code source code notebooks, industry models in terms a CZ wells dashboards that allow them to quickly build out these use cases around a turn or segmentation on dhe. You know some other models we can grab the box provide the models, provide the know how with the source code, as well as a way for them to train them, deploy them and operationalize them in an organization. That's kind of what we're doing. >> You prime the pump >> prime minute pump, we call them there right now, we're doing client in eights for wealth management, and we're doing that, ref SS. And they come right on the box of our cloudpack for data platform. You could quickly click and install button, and in there you'll get the sample data files. You get no books. You get industry terms, your governance capability, as well as deployed dashboards and models. >> So talk more about >> cloudpack for data. What's inside of that brought back the >> data is a collection of micro Service's Andi. It includes a lot of things that we bring to market to help customers with their journey things from like data ingestion collection to all the way Thio, eh? I model development from building your models to deploying them to actually infusing them in your business process with bias detection or integration way have a lot of capability. Part >> of it's actually tooling. It's not just sort of so how to Pdf >> dualism entire platform eso. So the platform itself has everything you need an organization to kind of go from an idea to data ingestion and governance and management all the way to model training, development, deployment into integration into your business process. >> Now Caitlin, in the early days of the CDO, saw CDO emerging in healthcare, financialservices and government. And now it's kind of gone mainstream to the point where we had Mark Clare on who's the head of data neighborhood AstraZeneca. And he said, I'm not taking the CDO title, you know, because I'm all about data enablement and CDO. You know, title has sort of evolved. What have you seen? It's got clearly gone mainstream Yep. What are you seeing? In terms of adoption of that, that role and its impact on organizations, >> So couple of transit has been interesting both domestically and internationally as well. So we're seeing a lot of growth outside of the U. S. So we did our first inaugural summit in Tokyo. In Japan, there's a number of day leaders in Japan that are really eager to jump start their transformation initiatives. Also did our first Dubai summit. Middle East and Africa will be in South Africa next month at another studio summit. And what I'm seeing is outside of North America a lot of activity and interest in creating an enabling studio light capability. Data Leader, Like, um, and some of these guys, I think we're gonna leapfrog ahead. I think they're going to just absolutely jump jump ahead and in parallel, those traditional industries, you know, there's a new federal legislation coming down by year end for most federal agencies to appoint a chief data officer. So, you know, Washington, D. C. Is is hopping right now, we're getting a number of agencies requesting advice and counsel on how to set up the office how to be successful I think there's some great opportunity in those traditional industries and also seeing it, you know, outside the U. S. And cross nontraditional, >> you say >> Jump ahead. You mean jump ahead of where maybe some of the U. S. >> Absolute best? Absolutely. And I'm >> seeing a trend where you know, a lot of CEOs they're moving. They're really closer to the line of business, right? They're moving outside of technology, but they have to be technology savvy. They have a team of engineers and data scientists. So there is really an important role in every organization that I'm seeing for every client I go to. It's a little different, but you're right, it's it's definitely up and coming. Role is very important for especially for digital transformation. >> This is so good. I was gonna say one of the ways they are teens really, partner Well, together, I think is weaken source some of these in terms of enabling that you know, acceleration and leap frog. What are those pain points or use cases in traditional data management space? You know, the metadata. So I think you talk with Steven earlier about how we're doing some automated meditate a generation and really using a i t. O instead of manually having to label and tag that we're able to generate about 85% of our labels internally and drive that into existing product. Carlos using. And our clients are saying, Hey, we're spending, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars and we've got teams of massive teams of people manual work. And so we're able to recognize it, adopts something like that, press internally and then work with you guys >> actually think of every detail developer out there that has to go figure out what this date is. If you have a tool which we're trying to cooperate the platform based on the guidance from the CDO Global CEO team, we can automatically create that metadata are likely ingested and provide into platform so that data scientists can start to get value out >> of it quickly. So we heard Martin Schroeder talked about digital trade and public policy, and he said there were three things free flow of data. Unless it doesn't make sense like personal information prevent data localization mandates, yeah, and then protect algorithms and source code, which is an I P protection thing. So I'm interested in how your customers air Reacting to that framework, I presume the protect the algorithms and source code I p. That's near and dear right? They want to make sure that you're not taking models and then giving it to their competitors. >> Absolutely. And we talk about that every time we go in there and we work on projects. What's the I p? You know, how do we manage this? And you know, what we bring to the table with the accelerators is to help them jump start them right, even though that it's kind of our a p we created, but we give it to them and then what they derive from that when they incorporate their data, which is their i p, and create new models, that is then their i. P. So those air complicated questions and every company is a little different on what they're worried about with that, so but many banks, we give them all the I P to make sure that they're comfortable and especially in financial service is but some other spaces. It's very competitive. And then I was worried about it because it's, ah, known space. A lot of the algorithm for youse are all open source. They're known algorithms, so there's not a lot of problem there. >> It's how you apply them. That's >> exactly right how you apply them in that boundary of what >> is P, What's not. It's kind of >> fuzzy, >> and we encourage our clients a lot of times to drive that for >> the >> organisation, for us, internally, GDP, our readiness, it was occurring to the business unit level functional area. So it was, you know, we weren't where we needed to be in terms of achieving compliance. And we have the CEO office took ownership of that across the business and got it where we needed to be. And so we often encourage our clients to take ownership of something like that and use it as an opportunity to differentiate. >> And I talked about the whole time of clients. Their data is impor onto them. Them training models with that data for some new making new decisions is their unique value. Prop In there, I'd be so so we encourage them to make sure they're aware that don't just tore their data in any can, um, service out there model because they could be giving away their intellectual property, and it's important. Didn't understand that. >> So that's a complicated one. Write the piece and the other two seem to be even tougher. And some regards, like the free flow of data. I could see a lot of governments not wanting the free flow of data, but and the client is in the middle. OK, d'oh. Government is gonna adjudicate. What's that conversation like? The example that he gave was, maybe was interpolate. If it's if it's information about baggage claims, you can you can use the Blockchain and crypt it and then only see the data at the other end. So that was actually, I thought, a good example. Why do you want to restrict that flow of data? But if it's personal information, keep it in country. But how is that conversation going with clients? >> Leo. Those can involve depending on the country, right and where you're at in the industry. >> But some Western countries are strict about that. >> Absolutely. And this is why we've created a platform that allows for data virtualization. We use Cooper nannies and technologies under the covers so that you can manage that in different locations. You could manage it across. Ah, hybrid of data centers or hybrid of public cloud vendors. And it allows you to still have one business application, and you can kind of do some of the separation and even separation of data. So there's there's, there's, there's an approach there, you know. But you gotta do a balance. Balance it. You gotta balance between innovation, digital transformation and how much you wanna, you know, govern so governs important. And then, you know. But for some projects, we may want to just quickly prototype. So there's a balance there, too. >> Well, that data virtualization tech is interesting because it gets the other piece, which was prevent data localization mandates. But if there is a mandate and we know that some countries aren't going to relax that mandate, you have, ah, a technical solution for that >> architecture that will support that. And that's a big investment for us right now. And where we're doing a lot of work in that space. Obviously, with red hat, you saw partnership or acquisition. So that's been >> really Yeah, I heard something about that's important. That's that's that's a big part of Chapter two. Yeah, all right. We'll give you the final world Caitlyn on the spring. I guess it's not spring it. Secondly, this summer, right? CDO event? >> No, it's been agreed. First day. So we kicked off. Today. We've got a full set of client panel's tomorrow. We've got some announcements around our meta data that I mentioned. Risk insights is a really cool offering. We'll be talking more about. We also have cognitive support. This is another one. Our clients that I really wanted to help with some of their support back in systems. So a lot of exciting announcements, new thought leadership coming out. It's been a great event and looking forward to the next next day. >> Well, I love the fact >> that you guys have have tied data science into the sea. Sweet roll. You guys have done a great job, I think, better than anybody in terms of of, of really advocating for the chief data officer. And this is a great event because it's piers talking. Appears a lot of private conversations going on. So congratulations on all the success and continued success worldwide. >> Thank you so much. Thank you, Dave. >> You welcome. Keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest. Ready for this short break. We have a panel coming up. This is David. Dante. You're >> watching the Cube from IBM CDO right back.

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think 2019. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hey everyone, welcome back to the live coverage here in Moscone North in San Francisco for IBM Think. This is theCUBE's coverage. I'm here with Dave Vellante. I've got two great guests here, Carlos Guevara, chief data officer, Claro Columbia, and Carlo Appugliese- Appugliese? >> Appugliese, yeah, good. That's good. >> Engagement Manager, IBM's Data Science Elite Team, customer of IBM, conversation around data science. Welcome to theCube, thanks for joining us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you. >> So we're here the streets are shut down. AI Anywhere is a big theme, Multi-Cloud, but it's all about the data everywhere. People trying to put end-to-end solutions together to solve real business problems. Data's at the heart of all this. Moving data around from cloud to cloud, using AI and technology to get insights out of that. So, take a minute to explain your situation, what you guys are trying to do. >> Okay, okay, perfect. Right now we're working a lot about the business theme, because we need to use the machine learning models or the artificial intelligence, to take best decisions for the company. We were working with Carlo and Sean Muller in order to know how can we divide the customers who leave the company. Because, for us, it's very important, to maintain our customer, to know how their behavior is from them, and their artificial intelligence is an excellent way to do it. We have a lot of challenge about that, because, you know, we have a lot of data, different systems that are running the data, but we need to put all the information together to run the models. The Elite Team that Carlo is leading right now is helping us a lot because, we know how to handle data, we know how to clean the data, we know how to do the right governance for the data and the IBM Equinix is very compromised with us in order to do that. Sofie, that is one of the engineers that is very close to us right now. She was working a lot with my team in order to run the models. Susan, she was doing a lot for our middleware, FITON, and right now we are trained to do it in over the Hadoop system, running the spark, and that is the good way that we are thinking that it's going to get the goal for us We need to maintain our customers. >> So you guys are the largest telecommunications piece, Claro in Mexico for voice and home services-- >> Yeah. >> Is that the segments you guys are targeting? >> Yeah, yeah. >> And the scope size of, how big is that? >> Claro is the largest company in Columbia for telecommunications. We have maybe 50 million customers in Columbia, more than 50% of their market share. Also, where we have many, maybe 2.5 millions of homes in Columbia, that is more than the 50% of the customers for home services. And you know that is a big challenge for us because the competitors are all the time trying to take our customers and the churn, it also adds to us, and how to avoid that and how to do the artificial intelligence to do it, machine learning is a very good way to do that. >> So, classic problem in telecommunications is churn, right, so it's a data problem, so how did it all come about? So these guys came to you and-- >> Yeah, so they came to us, and we got together, we talked about the problem, and churn was at the top, right, these guys have a ton of data. So what we did was, the team got together, we had, really the way the Data Science Elite Team works is we really help clients in three areas. It's all about the right skills, the right people, the right tools, and then the right process. So we put together a team, we put together some Agile approaches, and what we're going to do, and then we started by spinning up an environment, we took some data in, we took their, and there as a lot of data, it as a terabytes of data. We took their user data, we took their users' usage data, which is like how many texts, cellphone, and then billing data, we pulled all that together in an environment, then the data scientists, alongside with Carlos' team, really worked on the problem. And they addressed it with machine learning obviously, targeting churn, they tried a variety of models, but XGBoost ended up being one of the better approaches. And we came up with pretty good accuracy, about 90, 92% precision on the model. >> On predicting-- >> On predicting churn-- >> Yeah, churn, and also, what did you do with that data? >> That is a very good question because, the company is preparing to handle that. I have a funny history, I say to the business people, okay these customers are going to leave the company, and I forget about that, and two months later, I was asking okay, what happened, they say okay, your model is very good, all the customers goes. Oh my God, what is happening with that? They weren't working with information, that is the reason we're thinking that the good ways to think from the right to the left, because which is the purpose, the purpose is to maintain our customers, and in that case we lose 50,000 customers because we didn't do nothing. We are close in the circle, we are taking care about that, prescriptive models to have helped for us to do it. And okay, maybe that is an invoice problem, we need to correct them, to fix the problem, in order to avoid that, but the first part is to predict, to get in a score, for the churn, and to handle that with the people. Obviously, working also, at the root cause analysis, because we need the churn to fix from the root. >> Carlos, what goes through the scope of, like, just the project because, this is a concern we see in the industry, I got a lot of data, how do I attack it, what's the scope? You just come in, ingest it into a data lake, how do you get to the value of these insights quickly, because obviously they are starving for insights, take us through that quick process. >> Well, you know, every problem's a little different, we help hundreds of clients in different ways, but this particular problem, it was a big data problem, we knew we had a lot of data, they had a Hadoop environment, but some of the data wasn't there. So what we did was, is we spun up a separate environment, we pulled some of the big data in there, we also pulled some of the other data together, and we started to do our analysis on that, kind of separately in the cloud, which was a little different, but we're working now to push that down into their Hadoop data lake, because not all the data's there, but some of the data is there, and we want to use some of that computing network to-- >> So you had to almost do an audit on those, figure out what you want to pull in first, >> Absolutely. >> Tie it to the business, on the business side, what were you guys like? Waiting for the answers, or like, what was some of the, on your side of the process, how did it go down? >> Thinking about our business, we were talking a little bit about that, about the architecture to handle that, ICP for Data within that is a very good solution for that, because we need infrastructure to help us, in order to get the answers because finally, we have a question, we have questions, why the customers are leaving us. And, the answer was the data, and the data was handled in a good way, with governance, with data cleaning, with the right models to do that, and right now, our concern is business action, and business offer, because the solution for the company is that we, obviously new products are coming from the data. >> So 10 years ago, you probably didn't have a Hadoop cluster to solve this problem, the data was, maybe it was in a data warehouse, maybe it wasn't, and you probably weren't a chief data officer back then, you know, that role kind of didn't exit. So a lot has changed, in the last 10 years. My question is, do you, first of all, I'd be interested in your comment on that, but then, do you see a point in which you can now take remedial action, or maybe even automate some of that remedial action using machine intelligence and that data cloud, or however else you do it, to actually take action on behalf of the brand, before humans, or without even human involvement, did you foresee the day? >> Yeah, so, just a comment on your thought about the times you know, I've been doing technology for 20 something years, and you know, data science is something that's been around but it's kind of evolved in software development. My thought is, you know, we have these roles of data scientist, but a lot of the feature engineer and data prep does require traditional people that were DBAs and now data engineers, and a variety of skills come together, and that's what try to do in every project. Just to add to that comment. As far as predicting ahead of time, like I think you were trying to say, what data, help me understand your question. >> So you've got 93% accuracy, okay, so, I presume you take that, you give it to the business, business says okay, let's maybe, you know, reach out to them, maybe do a little incentive, or, what kind of action can the machines take action on behalf of your brand, do you foresee a day when that could happen? >> Ah. >> Ah, okay. >> Yeah, so my thought is, for Claro Columbia and Carlos, but obviously this is, to me, remain, is the predictive models we've built will obviously be deployed, and then it would interact with their digital mobile applications, so in real time it'll react for the customers. And then, obviously, you know you want to make sure that Claro and company trust that, and it's making accurate predictions, and that's where a lot more, you know we have to do some model of validation, and evaluation of that, so they can begin to trust those predictions. I think is where we're-- >> Guys. I want to get your thoughts on this because you're doing a lot of learnings here. So can you guys each take a minute and explain the key learnings from this, as you go through the process, certainly in the business side, this is a big imperative to do this. You want to have a business outcome that keeps your users there. But what did you learn, what was some of the learnings you guys got from the project? >> The most important learning from the company was cleaning the data, that sounds funny but, as we say in analysis, garbage in, garbage out. And that was very important for us, one of the things that we learned, that we need to put cleaning data or the system. Also, the governance. Many people forget about the governance, the governance of the data. And right now we're working, again with IBM, in order to put that governance soon. >> So data quality problem. >> Yeah, data quality. >> And, do you report into I guess, COO or the CIO, are you a peer of the CIO, how does that work? >> Oh, okay, that's another funny history because, because the company is, right now I'm working for planning. Yes, it's strange, we're working for planning for the company-- >> For business planning. >> Yeah, for business planning. >> I was coming for an engineer, engineering, and right now I'm working for planning, and trying to make money for the company. You know, that is an engineer thinking how to get more money for the company. I was talking about some kind of analytics that is geospatial analytics, and I went to see that engineer to know how their network's handling, how the quality of the network and right now introducing the same software, the same knowledge, to know which is the better points to do sales. It's a good combination where finally I'm working for planning, and my boss, the planning chief, is working for the CEO. And I hear about different organizations, somebody's in financial, the CDO's in financial, or the CDO for IT, it's different, it depends on the company. Right now, I'm working for planning, how to handle the things, how to make more money for the company, how to handle the churn, and it's interesting because all the knowledge that I have from engineering is perfect to do it. >> Well, I would argue that's the job of a CDO, is to figure out how to make money with data, or save money, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So it's number one, anyway, is start there. >> Yeah, the thing we always talk about it is, is really proving value, it starts with that use case, identify where the real value is, and then we can, you know, the technology can come and the development can work after that. So I agree 100% with that, is what we're seeing across the board. >> Carlos, thanks for coming in, largest telecommunications in Columbia, great customer reference. >> Carlo, take a minute to explain, real quick, get a plug in for your Data Science Elite Team. What do you guys do, how do you engage, what are some of the projects you work on? >> Right, yeah, so we're a team of about 100 data scientists worldwide, we work side by side with clients, and our job is to really understand the problem from end to end and help in all areas, from skills, tools, and technique. And we roll and prototype, in a three Agile sprints, we use an Agile methodology, about six to eight weeks, and we kind of develop a real, we call it a proof of value. It's not a MVP just yet, or POC, but at the end of the day we prove out that we can get a model, we can do some prediction, we get a certain accuracy, and it's going to add value to the organization. >> It's not a freebie, right? >> It actually is-- >> Sorry, I'm sorry. It's not a four page service, it's a freebie, right? >> Yeah, it's no cost. >> But you got to-- >> We don't like to use free, that's what-- >> But, you got to be saying-- >> It's a good lead. >> Good to discuss that-- >> Well, we don't charge, but >> Largely. >> But it, but it, it's something that clients can take advantage of, if they've got an interesting problem, they're potentially going to do some business with you guys. >> Absolutely. >> If you're the largest telecommunication provider in the country, you get a freebie, and then, the key is, you guys dig in. >> We dig in, it's practitioners, real practitioners, with the right skills, >> Yeah. >> Working on problems. >> Great sales model. >> By the way, Claro Columbia's team, they were amazing in Columbia, we had a really good time, six to eight weeks, you know, working on a problem, and those guys all loved it too, they were-- >> Thank you. >> Before they knew it, they were coding in Python and R, and they had already knew a lot of this stuff, but they're digging in with the team, and it came well together. >> This is the secret to modernization of digital transformation-- >> Yeah. >> Is having the sales process is getting, co-creating together-- >> Absolutely. >> You guys do a great job, and I think this is a trend we'll see more of, of course, TheCUBE is bringing you live coverage here in San Francisco, at Mascone North, that's where our set is. They're shutting down the streets for IBM Think 2019, here in San Francisco. More CUBE coverage after this short break, be right back. (energetic music)

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Welcome back to the live coverage here in Mosconi North in San Francisco for IBM. Think this. The cubes coverage. I'm Jeffrey David. Launching a too great guest here. Carlos. Gavel, gavel. A chief date. Officer Clara, Columbia and Carlos. See? Good. Engage your manager. IBM data Science elite team a customer of IBM country around data science. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having us. So we'll hear the street, the street to shut down a i N E. Where's the big theme? Multi cloud. But it's all about the data everywhere. People trying to put end to end solutions together to solve real business problems. Date is at the heart of all this moving date around from cloud to cloud using. Aye, aye. And technology get insights out of that. So take a minute to explain your situation, but you got to try to do. >> Okay. Okay, Perfect. Right now, we're working out a lot about the business thing because we need to use the machine learning models or all the artificial intelligence toe. Take best decisions for the company. Way. We're working with Carlo in a charming mother in order to know how how come with a boy the customers left the company Because for us it's very important to maintain our our customer toe. Now, how they're how are the cables is from them. There are two facility intelligences is next selling way to do it that way. Have a lot of challenge about that because, you know, we have a lot of data, different systems, that they're running the data way need to put all the information together to run them to run the mother's. The team that Carlo is leaving right now is helping to us a lot because we WeII know how to handle that. We know howto clean the data when you have to do the right governess for the data on the IBM iniquity is very compromised with us in there in order to do that safely. That is one of the union that is very close to us right now. She was working a lot with my team in order to run the models. You saying she was doing a lot of four. I mean, over fight on right now we are trained to do it in over the system, running this park on DH that is they? They Good way that we are. We are thinking that is going to get the gold for us way Need to maintain our customers. >> So years the largest telecommunications piece Claro in Mexico for boys and home services. Is that segments you guys are targeting? Yeah, Yeah. Scope. Size of how big is that? >> Clarisa? Largest company in Colombia For telecommunication. We have maybe fifty million customers in Colombia. More than fifty percent of the market marketer also way have many maybe two point five millions off forms in Colombia. That is more than fifty percent of the customers for from services on. Do you know that it's a big challenge for us because the competitors are all the time. Tryinto take our customers on DH the charm or they'll have toe. How's the boy that and how to I hope to do their artificial intelligence to do it much learning. It's a very good way to do that. >> So classic problem and telecommunications is Charon, right? So it's a date. A problem? Yeah, but So how did it all come about? So these guys came to you? >> Yeah. They help The game does. We got together. We talked about the problem and in turn was at the top right. These guys have a ton of data, so what we did is the team got together. We have really the way to data sensibly team works is we really helped clients in three areas. It's all about the right skills, the right people, the right tools and then the right process. So we put together a team. We put together some agile approaches on what we're going to do on DH. Then we'd get started by spinning up in environment. We took some data and we took there. And there's a lot of data is terabytes of data. We took their user data way, took their use users usage data, which is like how many text, cellphone and then bill on day that we pulled all that together and environment. Then the data scientists alongside what Carlos is team really worked on the problem, and they addressed it with, you know, machine learning, obviously target. In turn, they tried a variety of models, But actually, boost ended up being one of the better approaches on DH. They came up with a pretty good accuracy about nineties ninety two. Percent precision on the model. Predicting unpredictable turn. Yeah. >> So what did you do with that? That >> that that is a very good question because the company is preparing to handle that. I have a funny history. I said today to the business people. Okay, these customers are going to leave the company. Andi, I forget about that on DH. Two months later, I was asking Okay, what happened? They say, Okay, your model is very good. All the customers goes, >> Oh, my God, What >> this company with that they weren't working with a with information. That is the reason that we're thinking that the good ways to fame for on the right toe the left because twist them which is therefore, pulls the purposes toe Montana where our customers And in that case, we lose fifty thousand customers because we didn't do nothing Where we are close in the circle, we are taking care about that prescriptive boys could have tto do it on. OK, maybe that is her name. Voice problem. We need to correct them to fix the problem in orderto avoid that. But the fetus first parties toe predict toe. Get any score for the charm on Tau handled that with people obviously working. Also at the root cause analysis because way need to charm, way, need to fix from their road, >> Carla. So walk us through the scope of, like, just the project, because this is a concern we see in the industry a lot of data. How do I attack it? What's the scoop? You just come in and just into a data lake. How do you get to the value? These insights quickly because, honestly, they're starving for insights would take us through that quick process. >> Well, you know, every every problems with different. We helped hundreds of clients in different ways. But this pig a problem. It was a big data problem because we knew we had a lot of data. They had a new environment, but some of the data wasn't there. So what we did was way spun up a separate environment. We pulled some of the big data in there. We also pulled some of the other data together on DH. We started to do analysis on that kind of separately in the cloud, which is a little different, but we're working now to push that down into their Duke Data Lake, because not all the data is there, but some of the data is there, and we want to use some of that >> computer that almost to audit. Almost figure out what you want, what you want to pull in first, absolutely tie into the business on the business side. What would you guys like waiting for the answers? Or was that some of the on your side of process? How did it go down? >> I'm thinking about our business way. We're talking a little bit about about that about their detective tow hundred that I see before data within. That is a very good solution for that because we need infested toe, have us in orderto get the answers because finally we have a question we have question quite by. The customers are leaving us. Andi. What is data on the data handed in the good in a good way with governor? Dance with data cleaning with the rhyme orders toe. Do that on DH Right now, our concern is Business Section a business offer Because because the solution for the companies that way always, the new problems are coming from the data >> started ten years ago, you probably didn't have a new cluster to solve this problem. Data was maybe maybe isn't a data warehouse that maybe it wasn't And you probably weren't chief data officer back then. You know that roll kind of didn't exist, so a lot has changed in the last ten years. My question is, do you first of all be adjusting your comment on that? But do you see a point in which you could now take remedial action or maybe even automate some of that remedial action using machine intelligence and that data cloud or however else you do it to actually take action on behalf of the brand before humans who are without even human involvement foresee a day? >> Yeah. So just a comment on your thought about the times I've been doing technology for twenty something years, and data science is something has been around, but it's kind of evolved in software development. My thought is, uh, you know, we have these rolls of data scientists, but a lot of the feature engineering Data prep does require traditional people that were devious. And now Dave engineers and variety of skills come together, and that's what we try to do in every project. Just add that comment. A ce faras predicted ahead of time. Like, I think you're trying to say what data? Help me understand >> you. You know, you've got a ninety three percent accuracy. Okay, So I presume you take that, You give it to the business businesses, Okay? Let's maybe, you know, reach out to them, maybe do a little incentive or you know what kind of action in the machines take action on behalf of your brand? Do you foresee a day >> so that my thought is for Clara, Columbia and Carlos? But but obviously this is to me. Remain is the predictive models we build will obviously be deployed. And then it would interact with their digital mobile applications. So in real time, it'll react for the customers. And then obviously, you know, you want to make sure that claro and company trust that and it's making accurate predictions. And that's where a lot more, you know, we have to do some model validation and evaluation of that so they can begin to trust those predictions. I think is where >> I want to get your thoughts on this because you're doing a lot of learnings here. So can you guys each taking minutes playing the key Learnings from this As you go through the process? Certainly in the business side, there's a big imperative to do this. You want to have a business outcome that keeps the users there. But what did you learn? What was some of the learnings? You guys gone from the project? >> They the most important learning front from the company that wass teen in the data that that sound funny, but waiting in an alley, garbage in garbage, out on DH that wass very, very important for other was one of the things that we learn that we need to put cleaning date over the system. Also, the government's many people forget about the governments of the governments of the data on DH. Right now, we're working again with IBM in our government's >> so data quality problem? Yeah, they fight it and you report in to your CEO or the CEO. Seo, your spear of the CIA is OK. That >> is it. That's on another funny history, because because the company the company is right now, I am working for planning. This is saying they were working for planning for the company. >> Business planning? >> Yeah, for business planning. I was coming for an engineer engineering on DH. Right now, I'm working for a planning on trying to make money for the company, and you know that it's an engineer thinking how to get more money for the company I was talking about. So on some kind of analysis ticks, that is us Partial Analytics on I want you seeing that in engineer to know how the network handling how the quality of the network on right now using the same software this acknowledge, to know which is the better point to do sales is is a good combination finally and working. Ralph of planning on my boss, the planning the planet is working for the CEO and I heard about different organizations. Somebody's in Financial City owes in financial or the video for it is different. That depends from the company. Right now, I'm working for planning how to handle things, to make more money for the company, how to tow hundred children. And it is interesting because all the knowledge that I have engineering is perfect to do it >> Well, I would argue that's the job of a CDO is to figure out how to make money with data. Are saying money. Yeah. Absolute number one. Anyway, start there. >> Yeah, The thing we always talked about is really proving value. It starts with that use case. Identify where the real value is and then waken. You know, technology could come in the in the development work after that. So I agree with hundred percent. >> Carlos. Thanks for coming in. Largest telecommunication in Colombia. Great. Great customer reference. Carlo thinking men to explain real quick in a plug in for your data science elite team. What do you guys do? How do you engage? What? Some of the projects you work on Grey >> out. So we were a team of about one hundred data scientists worldwide. We work side by side with clients. In our job is to really understand the problem from end and help in all areas from skills, tools and technique. And we won't prototype in a three agile sprints. We use an agile methodology about six to eight weeks and we tied. It developed a really We call it a proof of value. It's it's not a M v P just yet or or poc But at the end of the day we prove out that we could get a model. We can do some prediction. We get a certain accuracy and it's gonna add value to the >> guys. Just >> It's not a freebie. It actually sorry. I'm sorry. It's not for paint service. It's a freebie is no cough you've got. But I don't like to use >> free way. Don't charge, but >> But it's something that clients could take advantage of if they're interesting problem and maybe eventually going to do some business. >> If you the largest telecommunication provider in the country, to get a freebie and then three keys, You guys dig in because its practitioners, real practitioners with the right skills, working on problems that way. Claro, >> Colombia's team. They were amazing. In Colombia. We had a really good time. Six to eight weeks working on it. You know, a problem on those guys. All loved it, too. They were. They were. Before they knew it. They were coding and python. And are they ready? Knew a lot of this stuff, but they're digging in with the team and became well together. >> This is the secret to modernization of digital transformation, Having sales process is getting co creating together. Absolutely. Guys do a great job, and I think this is a trend will see more of. Of course, the cubes bring you live coverage here in San Francisco at Mosconi. Nor That's where I said it is. They're shutting down the streets for IBM. Think twenty here in San Francisco, more cube coverage after the short break right back.

>> Announcer: You are CUBE Alumni. Live from Munich, Germany, it's theCUBE. Covering, DataWorks Summit Europe 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to live coverage at DataWorks 2017, I'm John Furrier with my cohost, Dave Vellante. Two days of coverage here in Munich, Germany, covering Hortonworks and Yahoo, presenting Hadoop Summit, now called DataWorks 2017. Our next guest is Carlo Vaiti, who's the HPE chief technology strategist, EMEA Digital Solutions, Europe, Middle East, and Africa. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, John. >> So we were just chatting before we came on, of your historic background at IBM, Oracle, and now HPE, and now back into the saddle there. >> Don't forget Sun Microsystems. >> Sun Microsystems, sorry, Sun, yeah. I mean, great, great run. >> It was a long run. >> You've seen the computer revolution happen. I worked at HP for nine years, from '88 to '97. Again, Dave was a premier analyst during that run of client-server. We've seen the computer revolution happen. Now we're seeing the digital revolution where the iPhone is now 10 years old, Cloud is booming, data's at the center of the value proposition, so a completely new disruptive capability. >> Carlo: Sure, yes. >> So what are you doing as the CTO, chief technologist for HPE, how are you guys bringing this story together? 'Cause there's so much going on at HPE. You got the services spit, you got the software split, and HP's focusing on the new style of IT, as Meg Whitman calls it. >> So, yeah. My role in EMEA is actually all about having basically a visionary kind of strategy role for what's going to be HP in the future, in terms of IT. And one of the things that we are looking at is, is specifically to have, we split our strategy in three different aspects, so three transformation areas. The first one which we usually talk is what I call hybrid IT, right, which is basically making services around either On-Premise or on Cloud for our customer base. The second one is actually power the Intelligent Edge, so is actually looking after our collaboration and when we acquire Aruba components. And the third one, which is in the middle, and that's why I'm here at the DataWorks Summit, is actually the data-analytics aspects. And we have a couple of solution in there. One is the Enterprise great Hadoop, which is part of this. This is actually how we generalize all the figure and the strategy for HP. >> It's interesting, Dave and I were talking yesterday, being in Europe, it's obviously a different sideshow, it's smaller than the DataWorks or Hadoop Summit in North America in San Jose, but there's a ton of Internet of things, IoT or IIoT, 'cause here in Germany, obviously, a lot of industrial nations, but in Europe in general, a lot of smart cities initiatives, a lot of mobility, a ton of Internet of things opportunity, more than in the US. >> Absolutely. >> Can you comment on how you guys are tackling the IoT? Because it's an Intelligent Edge, certainly, but it's also data, it's in your wheelhouse. >> Yes, sure. So I'm actually working, it's a good question, because I'm actually working a couple of projects in Eastern Europe, where it's all about Industrial IoT Analytics, IIoTA. That's the new terminology we use. So what we do is actually, we analyze from a business perspective, what are the business pain points, in an oil and gas company for example. And we understand for example, what kind of things that they need and must have. And what I'm saying here is, one of the aspects for example, is the drilling opportunity. So how much oil you can extract from a specific rig in the middle of the North Sea, for example. This is one of the key question, because the customer want to understand, in the future, how much oil they can extract. The other one is for example, the upstream business. So doing on the retail side and having, say, when my customer is stopping in a gas station, I want go in the shop, immediately giving, I dunno, my daughter, a kind of campaign for the Barbie, because they like the Barbie. So IoT, Industrial IoT help us in actually making a much better customer experience, and that's the case of the upstream business, but is also helping us in actually much faster business outcomes. And that's what the customer wants, right? 'Cause, and was talking with your colleague before, I'm talking to the business guy. I'm not talking to the IT anymore in these kind of place, and that's how IoT allow us a chance to change the conversation at the industry level. >> These are first-time conversations too. You're getting at the kinds of business conversations that weren't possible five years ago. >> Carlo: Yes, sure. >> I mean and 10 years ago, they would have seemed fantasy. Now they're reality. >> The role of analytics in my opinion, is becoming extremely key, and I said this morning, for me my best center is that the detail, is the stone foundation of the digital economy. I continue to repeat this terminology, because it's actually where everything is starting from. So what I mean is, let's take a look at the analytic aspect. So if I'm able to analyze the data close to the shop floor, okay, close to the shop manufacturing floor, if I'm able to analyze my data on the rig, in the oil and gas industry, if I'm able to analyze doing preprocessing analytics, with Kafka, Druid, these kind of open-source software, where close to the Intelligent Edge, then my customers going to be happy, because I give them very fast response, and the decision-maker can get to decision in a faster time. Today, it takes a long time to take these type of decision. So that's why we want to move into the power Intelligent Edge. >> So you're saying, data's foundational, but if you get to the Intelligent Edge, it's dynamic. So you have a dynamic reactive, realtime time series, or presences of data, but you need the foundational pre-data. >> Perfect. >> Is that kind of what you're getting at? >> Yes, that's the first step. Preprocessing analytics is what we do. In the next generation of, we think is going to be Industrial IoT Analytics, we're going to actually put massive amount of compute close to the shop manufacturing floor. We call internally or actually externally, convergent planned infrastructure. And that's the key point, right? >> John: Convergent plan? >> Convergent planned infrastructure, CPI. If you look at in Google, you will find. It's a solution we bring in the market a few months ago. We announce it in December last year. >> Yeah, Antonio's smart. He also had a converged systems as well. One of the first ones. >> Yeah, so that's converge compute at the edge basically. >> Correct, converge compute-- >> Very powerful. >> Very powerful, and we run analytics on the edge. That's the key point. >> Which we love, because that means you don't have to send everything back to the Cloud because it's too expensive, it's going to take too long, it's not going to work. >> Carlo: The bandwidth on the network is much less. >> There's no way that's going to be successful, unless you go to the edge and-- >> It takes time. >> With a cost. >> Now the other thing is, of course, you've got the Aruba asset, to be able to, I always say, joke, connect the windmill. But, Carlo, can we go back to the IoTA example? >> Carlo: Correct, yeah. >> I want to help, help our audience understand, sort of, the new HP, post these spin merges. So perviously you would say, okay, we have Vertica. You still have partnership, or you still own Vertica, but after September 1st-- >> Absolutely, absolutely. It's part of the columnar side-- >> Right, yes, absolutely, but, so. But the new strategy is to be more of a platform for a variety of technology. So how for instance would you solve, or did you solve, that problem that you described? What did you actually deliver? >> So again, as I said, we're, especially in the Industrial IoT, we are an ecosystem, okay? So we're one element of the ecosystem solution. For the oil and gas specifically, we're working with other system integrator. We're working with oil and the industry gas expertise, like DXC company, right, the company that we just split a few days ago, and we're working with them. They're providing the industry expertise. We are a infrastructure provided around that, and the services around that for the infrastructure element. But for the industry expertise, we try to have a kind of little bit of knowledge, to start the conversation with the customer. But again, my role in the strategy is actually to be a ecosystem digital integrator. That's the new terminology we like to bring in the market, because we really believe that's the way HP role is going to be. And the relevance of HP is totally depending if we are going to be successful in these type of things. >> Okay, now a couple other things you talked about in your keynote. I'm just going to list them, and then we can go wherever we want. There was Data Link 3.0, Storage Disaggregation, which is kind of interesting, 'cause it's been a problem. Hadoop as a service, Realtime Everywhere, and then Analytics at the Edge, which we kind of just talked about. Let's pick one. Let's start with Data Link 3.0. What is that? John doesn't like the term data link. He likes data ocean. >> I like data ocean. >> Is Data Link 3.0 becoming an ocean? >> It's becoming an ocean. So, Data Link 3.0 for us is actually following what is going to be the future for HDFS 3.0. So we have three elements. The erasure coding feature, which is coming on HDFS. The second element is around having HDFS data tier, multi-data tier. So we're going to have faster SSD drives. We're going to have big memory nodes. We're going to have GPU nodes. And the reason why I say disaggregation is because some of the workload will be only compute, and some of the workload will be only storage, okay? So we're going to bring, and the customer require this, because it's getting more data, and they need to have for example, YARN application running on compute nodes, and the same level, they want to have storage compute block, sorry, storage components, running on the storage model, like HBase for example, like HDFS 3.0 with the multi-tier option. So that's why the data disaggregation, or disaggregation between compute and storage, is the key point. We call this asymmetric, right? Hadoop is becoming asymmetric. That's what it mean. >> And the problem you're solving there, is when I add a node to a cluster, I don't have to add compute and storage together, I can disaggregate and choose whatever I need, >> Everyone that we did. >> based on the workload. >> They are all multitenancy kind of workload, and they are independent and they scale out. Of course, it's much more complex, but we have actually proved that this is the way to go, because that's what the customer is demanding. >> So, 3.0 is actually functional. It's erasure coding, you said. There's a data tier. You've got different memory levels. >> And I forgot to mention, the containerization of the application. Having dockerized the application for example. Using mesosphere for example, right? So having the containerization of the application is what all of that means, because what we do in Hadoop, we actually build the different clusters, they need to talk to each other, and change data in a faster way. And a solution like, a product like SQL Manager, from Hortonworks, is actually helping us to get this connection between the cluster faster and faster. And that's what the customer wants. >> And then Hadoop as a service, is that an on-premise solution, is that a hybrid solution, is it a Cloud solution, all three? >> I can offer all of them. Hadoop is a service could be run on-premise, could be run on a public Cloud, could be run on Azure, or could be mix of them, partially on-premise, and partially on public. >> And what are you seeing with regard to customer adoption of Cloud, and specifically around Hadoop and big data? >> I think the way I see that option is all the customer want to start very small. The maturity is actually better from a technology standpoint. If you're asking me the same question maybe a year ago, I would say, it's difficult. Now I think they've got the point. Every large customer, they want to build this big data ocean, note the delay, ocean, whatever you want to call it. >> John: Love that. (laughs) >> All right. They want to build this data ocean, and the point I want to make is, they want to start small, but they want to think very high. Very big, right, from their perspective. And the way they approach us is, we have a kind of methodology. We establish the maturity assessment. We do a kind of capability maturity assessment, where we find that if the customer is actually a pioneer, or is actually a very traditional one, so it's very slow-going. Once we determine where is the stage of the customer is, we propose some specific proof of concept. And in three months usually, we're putting this in place. >> You also talked about realtime everywhere. We in our research, we talk about the, historically, you had batchy of interactive, and now you have what we call continuous, or realtime streaming workloads. How prevalent is that? Where do you see it going in the future? >> So I think is another train for the future, as I mentioned this morning in my presentation. So and Spark is actually doing the open-source memory engine process, is actually the core of this stuff. We see 60 to 70 time faster analytics, compared to not to use Spark. So many customer implemented Spark because of this. The requirement are that the customer needs an immediate response time, okay, for a specific decision-making that they have to do, in order to improve their business, in order to improve their life. But this require a different architecture. >> I have a question, 'cause you, you've lived in the United States, you're obviously global, and spent a lot of time in Europe as well, and a lot of times, people want to discuss the differences between, let's make it specific here, the European continent and North America, and from a sophistication standpoint, same, we can agree on that, but there are still differences. Maybe, more greater privacy concerns. The whole thing with the Cloud and the NSA in the United States, created some concerns. What do you see as the differences today between North America and Europe? >> From my perspective, I think we are much more for example take IoT, Industrial IoT. I think in Europe we are much more advanced. I think in the manufacturing and the automotive space, the connected car kind of things, autonomous driving, this is something that we know already how to manage, how to do it. I mean, Tesla in the US is a good example that what I'm saying is not true, but if I look at for example, large German manufacturing car, they always implemented these type of things already today. >> Dave: For years, yeah. >> That's the difference, right? I think the second step is about the faster analytic approach. So what I mentioned before. The Power the Intelligent Edge, in my opinion at the moment, is much more advanced in the US compared to Europe. But I think Europe is starting to run back, and going on the same route. Because we believe that putting compute capacity on the edge is what actually the customer wants. But that's the two big differences I see. >> The other two big external factors that we like to look at, are Brexit and Trump. So (laughs) how 'about Brexit? Now that it's starting to sort of actually become, begin the process, how should we think about it? Is it overblown? It is critical? What's your take? >> Well, I think it's too early to say. UK just split a few days ago, right, officially. It's going to take another 18 months before it's going to be completed. From a commercial standpoint, we don't see any difference so far. We're actually working the same way. For me it's too early to say if there's going to be any implication on that. >> And we don't know about Trump. We don't have to talk about it, but the, but I saw some data recently that's, European sentiment, business sentiment is trending stronger than the US, which is different than it's been for the last many years. What do you see in terms of just sentiment, business conditions in Europe? Do you see a pick up? >> It's getting better, it is getting better. I mean, if I look at the major countries, the P&L is going positive, 1.5%. So I think from that perspective, we are getting better. Of course we are still suffering from the Chinese, and Japanese market sometimes. Especially in some of the big large deals. The inclusion of the Japanese market, I feel it, and the Chinese market, I feel that. But I think the economy is going to be okay, so it's going to be good. >> Carlo, I want to thank you for coming on and sharing your insight, final question for you. You're new to HPE, okay. We have a lot of history, obviously I was, spent a long part of my career there, early in my career. Dave and I have covered the transformation of HP for many, many years, with theCUBE certainly. What attracted you to HP and what would you say is going on at HP from your standpoint, that people should know about? >> So I think the number one thing is that for us the word is going to be hybrid. It means that some of the services that you can implement, either on-premise or on Cloud, could be done very well by the new Pointnext organization. I'm not part of Pointnext. I'm in the EG, Enterprise Group division. But I am fan for Pointnext because I believe this is the future of our company, is on the services side, that's where it's going. >> I would just point out, Dave and I, our commentary on the spin merge has been, create these highly cohesive entities, very focused. Antonio now running EG, big fans, of where it's actually an efficient business model. >> Carlo: Absolutely. >> And Chris Hsu is running the Micro Focus, CUBE Alumni. >> Carlo: It's a very efficient model, yes. >> Well, congratulations and thanks for coming on and sharing your insights here in Europe. And certainly it is an IoT world, IIoT. I love the analytics story, foundational services. It's going to be great, open source powering it, and this is theCUBE, opening up our content, and sharing that with you. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Stay with us for more great coverage, here from Munich after the short break.

(soft electronic music) >> Hey everyone, welcome to this CUBE conversation as part of the AWS Startup Showcase, season three, episode one, featuring Astronomer. I'm your host, Lisa Martin. I'm in the CUBE's Palo Alto Studios, and today excited to be joined by a couple of guests, a couple of co-founders from Astronomer. Viraj Parekh is with us, as is Paola Peraza-Calderon. Thanks guys so much for joining us. Excited to dig into Astronomer. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> Yeah, thanks for having us. >> Yeah, and we're going to be talking about the role of data orchestration. Paola, let's go ahead and start with you. Give the audience that understanding, that context about Astronomer and what it is that you guys do. >> Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. So, Astronomer is a, you know, we're a technology and software company for modern data orchestration, as you said, and we're the driving force behind Apache Airflow. The Open Source Workflow Management tool that's since been adopted by thousands and thousands of users, and we'll dig into this a little bit more. But, by data orchestration, we mean data pipeline, so generally speaking, getting data from one place to another, transforming it, running it on a schedule, and overall just building a central system that tangibly connects your entire ecosystem of data services, right. So what, that's Redshift, Snowflake, DVT, et cetera. And so tangibly, we build, we at Astronomer here build products powered by Apache Airflow for data teams and for data practitioners, so that they don't have to. So, we sell to data engineers, data scientists, data admins, and we really spend our time doing three things. So, the first is that we build Astro, our flagship cloud service that we'll talk more on. But here, we're really building experiences that make it easier for data practitioners to author, run, and scale their data pipeline footprint on the cloud. And then, we also contribute to Apache Airflow as an open source project and community. So, we cultivate the community of humans, and we also put out open source developer tools that actually make it easier for individual data practitioners to be productive in their day-to-day jobs, whether or not they actually use our product and and pay us money or not. And then of course, we also have professional services and education and all of these things around our commercial products that enable folks to use our products and use Airflow as effectively as possible. So yeah, super, super happy with everything we've done and hopefully that gives you an idea of where we're starting. >> Awesome, so when you're talking with those, Paola, those data engineers, those data scientists, how do you define data orchestration and what does it mean to them? >> Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. So, you know, if you Google data orchestration you're going to get something about an automated process for organizing silo data and making it accessible for processing and analysis. But, to your question, what does that actually mean, you know? So, if you look at it from a customer's perspective, we can share a little bit about how we at Astronomer actually do data orchestration ourselves and the problems that it solves for us. So, as many other companies out in the world do, we at Astronomer need to monitor how our own customers use our products, right? And so, we have a weekly meeting, for example, that goes through a dashboard and a dashboarding tool called Sigma where we see the number of monthly customers and how they're engaging with our product. But, to actually do that, you know, we have to use data from our application database, for example, that has behavioral data on what they're actually doing in our product. We also have data from third party API tools, like Salesforce and HubSpot, and other ways in which our customer, we actually engage with our customers and their behavior. And so, our data team internally at Astronomer uses a bunch of tools to transform and use that data, right? So, we use FiveTran, for example, to ingest. We use Snowflake as our data warehouse. We use other tools for data transformations. And even, if we at Astronomer don't do this, you can imagine a data team also using tools like, Monte Carlo for data quality, or Hightouch for Reverse ETL, or things like that. And, I think the point here is that data teams, you know, that are building data-driven organizations have a plethora of tooling to both ingest the right data and come up with the right interfaces to transform and actually, interact with that data. And so, that movement and sort of synchronization of data across your ecosystem is exactly what data orchestration is responsible for. Historically, I think, and Raj will talk more about this, historically, schedulers like KRON and Oozie or Control-M have taken a role here, but we think that Apache Airflow has sort of risen over the past few years as the defacto industry standard for writing data pipelines that do tasks, that do data jobs that interact with that ecosystem of tools in your organization. And so, beyond that sort of data pipeline unit, I think where we see it is that data acquisition is not only writing those data pipelines that move your data, but it's also all the things around it, right, so, CI/CD tool and Secrets Management, et cetera. So, a long-winded answer here, but I think that's how we talk about it here at Astronomer and how we're building our products. >> Excellent. Great context, Paola. Thank you. Viraj, let's bring you into the conversation. Every company these days has to be a data company, right? They've got to be a software company- >> Mm-hmm. >> whether it's my bank or my grocery store. So, how are companies actually doing data orchestration today, Viraj? >> Yeah, it's a great question. So, I think one thing to think about is like, on one hand, you know, data orchestration is kind of a new category that we're helping define, but on the other hand, it's something that companies have been doing forever, right? You need to get data moving to use it, you know. You've got it all in place, aggregate it, cleaning it, et cetera. So, when you look at what companies out there are doing, right. Sometimes, if you're a more kind of born in the cloud company, as we say, you'll adopt all these cloud native tooling things your cloud provider gives you. If you're a bank or another sort of institution like that, you know, you're probably juggling an even wider variety of tools. You're thinking about a cloud migration. You might have things like Kron running in one place, Uzi running somewhere else, Informatics running somewhere else, while you're also trying to move all your workloads to the cloud. So, there's quite a large spectrum of what the current state is for companies. And then, kind of like Paola was saying, Apache Airflow started in 2014, and it was actually started by Airbnb, and they put out this blog post that was like, "Hey here's how we use Apache Airflow to orchestrate our data across all their sources." And really since then, right, it's almost been a decade since then, Airflow emerged as the open source standard, and there's companies of all sorts using it. And, it's really used to tie all these tools together, especially as that number of tools increases, companies move to hybrid cloud, hybrid multi-cloud strategies, and so on and so forth. But you know, what we found is that if you go to any company, especially a larger one and you say like, "Hey, how are you doing data orchestration?" They'll probably say something like, "Well, I have five data teams, so I have eight different ways I do data orchestration." Right. This idea of data orchestration's been there but the right way to do it, kind of all the abstractions you need, the way your teams need to work together, and so on and so forth, hasn't really emerged just yet, right? It's such a quick moving space that companies have to combine what they were doing before with what their new business initiatives are today. So, you know, what we really believe here at Astronomer is Airflow is the core of how you solve data orchestration for any sort of use case, but it's not everything. You know, it needs a little more. And, that's really where our commercial product, Astro comes in, where we've built, not only the most tried and tested airflow experience out there. We do employ a majority of the Airflow Core Committers, right? So, we're kind of really deep in the project. We've also built the right things around developer tooling, observability, and reliability for customers to really rely on Astro as the heart of the way they do data orchestration, and kind of think of it as the foundational layer that helps tie together all the different tools, practices and teams large companies have to do today. >> That foundational layer is absolutely critical. You've both mentioned open source software. Paola, I want to go back to you, and just give the audience an understanding of how open source really plays into Astronomer's mission as a company, and into the technologies like Astro. >> Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we, so we at Astronomers started using Airflow and actually building our products because Airflow is open source and we were our own customers at the beginning of our company journey. And, I think the open source community is at the core of everything we do. You know, without that open source community and culture, I think, you know, we have less of a business, and so, we're super invested in continuing to cultivate and grow that. And, I think there's a couple sort of concrete ways in which we do this that personally make me really excited to do my own job. You know, for one, we do things like we organize meetups and we sponsor the Airflow Summit and there's these sort of baseline community efforts that I think are really important and that reminds you, hey, there just humans trying to do their jobs and learn and use both our technology and things that are out there and contribute to it. So, making it easier to contribute to Airflow, for example, is another one of our efforts. As Viraj mentioned, we also employ, you know, engineers internally who are on our team whose full-time job is to make the open source project better. Again, regardless of whether or not you're a customer of ours or not, we want to make sure that we continue to cultivate the Airflow project in and of itself. And, we're also building developer tooling that might not be a part of the Apache Open Source project, but is still open source. So, we have repositories in our own sort of GitHub organization, for example, with tools that individual data practitioners, again customers are not, can use to make them be more productive in their day-to-day jobs with Airflow writing Dags for the most common use cases out there. The last thing I'll say is how important I think we've found it to build sort of educational resources and documentation and best practices. Airflow can be complex. It's been around for a long time. There's a lot of really, really rich feature sets. And so, how do we enable folks to actually use those? And that comes in, you know, things like webinars, and best practices, and courses and curriculum that are free and accessible and open to the community are just some of the ways in which I think we're continuing to invest in that open source community over the next year and beyond. >> That's awesome. It sounds like open source is really core, not only to the mission, but really to the heart of the organization. Viraj, I want to go back to you and really try to understand how does Astronomer fit into the wider modern data stack and ecosystem? Like what does that look like for customers? >> Yeah, yeah. So, both in the open source and with our commercial customers, right? Folks everywhere are trying to tie together a huge variety of tools in order to start making sense of their data. And you know, I kind of think of it almost like as like a pyramid, right? At the base level, you need things like data reliability, data, sorry, data freshness, data availability, and so on and so forth, right? You just need your data to be there. (coughs) I'm sorry. You just need your data to be there, and you need to make it predictable when it's going to be there. You need to make sure it's kind of correct at the highest level, some quality checks, and so on and so forth. And oftentimes, that kind of takes the case of ELT or ETL use cases, right? Taking data from somewhere and moving it somewhere else, usually into some sort of analytics destination. And, that's really what businesses can do to just power the core parts of getting insights into how their business is going, right? How much revenue did I had? What's in my pipeline, salesforce, and so on and so forth. Once that kind of base foundation is there and people can get the data they need, how they need it, it really opens up a lot for what customers can do. You know, I think one of the trendier things out there right now is MLOps, and how do companies actually put machine learning into production? Well, when you think about it you kind of have to squint at it, right? Like, machine learning pipelines are really just any other data pipeline. They just have a certain set of needs that might not not be applicable to ELT pipelines. And, when you kind of have a common layer to tie together all the ways data can move through your organization, that's really what we're trying to make it so companies can do. And, that happens in financial services where, you know, we have some customers who take app data coming from their mobile apps, and actually run it through their fraud detection services to make sure that all the activity is not fraudulent. We have customers that will run sports betting models on our platform where they'll take data from a bunch of public APIs around different sporting events that are happening, transform all of that in a way their data scientist can build models with it, and then actually bet on sports based on that output. You know, one of my favorite use cases I like to talk about that we saw in the open source is we had there was one company whose their business was to deliver blood transfusions via drone into remote parts of the world. And, it was really cool because they took all this data from all sorts of places, right? Kind of orchestrated all the aggregation and cleaning and analysis that happened had to happen via airflow and the end product would be a drone being shot out into a real remote part of the world to actually give somebody blood who needed it there. Because it turns out for certain parts of the world, the easiest way to deliver blood to them is via drone and not via some other, some other thing. So, these kind of, all the things people do with the modern data stack is absolutely incredible, right? Like you were saying, every company's trying to be a data-driven company. What really energizes me is knowing that like, for all those best, super great tools out there that power a business, we get to be the connective tissue, or the, almost like the electricity that kind of ropes them all together and makes so people can actually do what they need to do. >> Right. Phenomenal use cases that you just described, Raj. I mean, just the variety alone of what you guys are able to do and impact is so cool. So Paola, when you're with those data engineers, those data scientists, and customer conversations, what's your pitch? Why use Astro? >> Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. And honestly, to piggyback off of Viraj, there's so many. I think what keeps me so energized is how mission critical both our product and data orchestration is, and those use cases really are incredible and we work with customers of all shapes and sizes. But, to answer your question, right, so why use Astra? Why use our commercial products? There's so many people using open source, why pay for something more than that? So, you know, the baseline for our business really is that Airflow has grown exponentially over the last five years, and like we said has become an industry standard that we're confident there's a huge opportunity for us as a company and as a team. But, we also strongly believe that being great at running Airflow, you know, doesn't make you a successful company at what you do. What makes you a successful company at what you do is building great products and solving problems and solving pin points of your own customers, right? And, that differentiating value isn't being amazing at running Airflow. That should be our job. And so, we want to abstract those customers from meaning to do things like manage Kubernetes infrastructure that you need to run Airflow, and then hiring someone full-time to go do that. Which can be hard, but again doesn't add differentiating value to your team, or to your product, or to your customers. So, folks to get away from managing that infrastructure sort of a base, a base layer. Folks who are looking for differentiating features that make their team more productive and allows them to spend less time tweaking Airflow configurations and more time working with the data that they're getting from their business. For help, getting, staying up with Airflow releases. There's a ton of, we've actually been pretty quick to come out with new Airflow features and releases, and actually just keeping up with that feature set and working strategically with a partner to help you make the most out of those feature sets is a key part of it. And, really it's, especially if you're an organization who currently is committed to using Airflow, you likely have a lot of Airflow environments across your organization. And, being able to see those Airflow environments in a single place and being able to enable your data practitioners to create Airflow environments with a click of a button, and then use, for example, our command line to develop your Airflow Dags locally and push them up to our product, and use all of the sort of testing and monitoring and observability that we have on top of our product is such a key. It sounds so simple, especially if you use Airflow, but really those things are, you know, baseline value props that we have for the customers that continue to be excited to work with us. And of course, I think we can go beyond that and there's, we have ambitions to add whole, a whole bunch of features and expand into different types of personas. >> Right? >> But really our main value prop is for companies who are committed to Airflow and want to abstract themselves and make use of some of the differentiating features that we now have at Astronomer. >> Got it. Awesome. >> Thank you. One thing, one thing I'll add to that, Paola, and I think you did a good job of saying is because every company's trying to be a data company, companies are at different parts of their journey along that, right? And we want to meet customers where they are, and take them through it to where they want to go. So, on one end you have folks who are like, "Hey, we're just building a data team here. We have a new initiative. We heard about Airflow. How do you help us out?" On the farther end, you know, we have some customers that have been using Airflow for five plus years and they're like, "Hey, this is awesome. We have 10 more teams we want to bring on. How can you help with this? How can we do more stuff in the open source with you? How can we tell our story together?" And, it's all about kind of taking this vast community of data users everywhere, seeing where they're at, and saying like, "Hey, Astro and Airflow can take you to the next place that you want to go." >> Which is incredibly- >> Mm-hmm. >> and you bring up a great point, Viraj, that every company is somewhere in a different place on that journey. And it's, and it's complex. But it sounds to me like a lot of what you're doing is really stripping away a lot of the complexity, really enabling folks to use their data as quickly as possible, so that it's relevant and they can serve up, you know, the right products and services to whoever wants what. Really incredibly important. We're almost out of time, but I'd love to get both of your perspectives on what's next for Astronomer. You give us a a great overview of what the company's doing, the value in it for customers. Paola, from your lens as one of the co-founders, what's next? >> Yeah, I mean, I think we'll continue to, I think cultivate in that open source community. I think we'll continue to build products that are open sourced as part of our ecosystem. I also think that we'll continue to build products that actually make Airflow, and getting started with Airflow, more accessible. So, sort of lowering that barrier to entry to our products, whether that's price wise or infrastructure requirement wise. I think making it easier for folks to get started and get their hands on our product is super important for us this year. And really it's about, I think, you know, for us, it's really about focused execution this year and all of the sort of core principles that we've been talking about. And continuing to invest in all of the things around our product that again, enable teams to use Airflow more effectively and efficiently. >> And that efficiency piece is, everybody needs that. Last question, Viraj, for you. What do you see in terms of the next year for Astronomer and for your role? >> Yeah, you know, I think Paola did a really good job of laying it out. So it's, it's really hard to disagree with her on anything, right? I think executing is definitely the most important thing. My own personal bias on that is I think more than ever it's important to really galvanize the community around airflow. So, we're going to be focusing on that a lot. We want to make it easier for our users to get get our product into their hands, be that open source users or commercial users. And last, but certainly not least, is we're also really excited about Data Lineage and this other open source project in our umbrella called Open Lineage to make it so that there's a standard way for users to get lineage out of different systems that they use. When we think about what's in store for data lineage and needing to audit the way automated decisions are being made. You know, I think that's just such an important thing that companies are really just starting with, and I don't think there's a solution that's emerged that kind of ties it all together. So, we think that as we kind of grow the role of Airflow, right, we can also make it so that we're helping solve, we're helping customers solve their lineage problems all in Astro, which is our kind of the best of both worlds for us. >> Awesome. I can definitely feel and hear the enthusiasm and the passion that you both bring to Astronomer, to your customers, to your team. I love it. We could keep talking more and more, so you're going to have to come back. (laughing) Viraj, Paola, thank you so much for joining me today on this showcase conversation. We really appreciate your insights and all the context that you provided about Astronomer. >> Thank you so much for having us. >> My pleasure. For my guests, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching this Cube conversation. (soft electronic music)

>> From The Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data driven insights from The Cube at ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> The reverse momentum in tech stocks caused by rising interest rates, less attractive discounted cash flow models, and more tepid forward guidance, can be easily measured by public market valuations. And while there's lots of discussion about the impact on private companies and cash runway and 409A valuations, measuring the performance of non-public companies isn't as easy. IPOs have dried up and public statements by private companies, of course, they accentuate the good and they kind of hide the bad. Real data, unless you're an insider, is hard to find. Hello and welcome to this week's "Wikibon Cube Insights" powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis", we unlock some of the secrets that non-public, emerging tech companies may or may not be sharing. And we do this by introducing you to a capability from ETR that we've not exposed you to over the past couple of years, it's called the Emerging Technologies Survey, and it is packed with sentiment data and performance data based on surveys of more than a thousand CIOs and IT buyers covering more than 400 companies. And we've invited back our colleague, Erik Bradley of ETR to help explain the survey and the data that we're going to cover today. Erik, this survey is something that I've not personally spent much time on, but I'm blown away at the data. It's really unique and detailed. First of all, welcome. Good to see you again. >> Great to see you too, Dave, and I'm really happy to be talking about the ETS or the Emerging Technology Survey. Even our own clients of constituents probably don't spend as much time in here as they should. >> Yeah, because there's so much in the mainstream, but let's pull up a slide to bring out the survey composition. Tell us about the study. How often do you run it? What's the background and the methodology? >> Yeah, you were just spot on the way you were talking about the private tech companies out there. So what we did is we decided to take all the vendors that we track that are not yet public and move 'em over to the ETS. And there isn't a lot of information out there. If you're not in Silicon (indistinct), you're not going to get this stuff. So PitchBook and Tech Crunch are two out there that gives some data on these guys. But what we really wanted to do was go out to our community. We have 6,000, ITDMs in our community. We wanted to ask them, "Are you aware of these companies? And if so, are you allocating any resources to them? Are you planning to evaluate them," and really just kind of figure out what we can do. So this particular survey, as you can see, 1000 plus responses, over 450 vendors that we track. And essentially what we're trying to do here is talk about your evaluation and awareness of these companies and also your utilization. And also if you're not utilizing 'em, then we can also figure out your sales conversion or churn. So this is interesting, not only for the ITDMs themselves to figure out what their peers are evaluating and what they should put in POCs against the big guys when contracts come up. But it's also really interesting for the tech vendors themselves to see how they're performing. >> And you can see 2/3 of the respondents are director level of above. You got 28% is C-suite. There is of course a North America bias, 70, 75% is North America. But these smaller companies, you know, that's when they start doing business. So, okay. We're going to do a couple of things here today. First, we're going to give you the big picture across the sectors that ETR covers within the ETS survey. And then we're going to look at the high and low sentiment for the larger private companies. And then we're going to do the same for the smaller private companies, the ones that don't have as much mindshare. And then I'm going to put those two groups together and we're going to look at two dimensions, actually three dimensions, which companies are being evaluated the most. Second, companies are getting the most usage and adoption of their offerings. And then third, which companies are seeing the highest churn rates, which of course is a silent killer of companies. And then finally, we're going to look at the sentiment and mindshare for two key areas that we like to cover often here on "Breaking Analysis", security and data. And data comprises database, including data warehousing, and then big data analytics is the second part of data. And then machine learning and AI is the third section within data that we're going to look at. Now, one other thing before we get into it, ETR very often will include open source offerings in the mix, even though they're not companies like TensorFlow or Kubernetes, for example. And we'll call that out during this discussion. The reason this is done is for context, because everyone is using open source. It is the heart of innovation and many business models are super glued to an open source offering, like take MariaDB, for example. There's the foundation and then there's with the open source code and then there, of course, the company that sells services around the offering. Okay, so let's first look at the highest and lowest sentiment among these private firms, the ones that have the highest mindshare. So they're naturally going to be somewhat larger. And we do this on two dimensions, sentiment on the vertical axis and mindshare on the horizontal axis and note the open source tool, see Kubernetes, Postgres, Kafka, TensorFlow, Jenkins, Grafana, et cetera. So Erik, please explain what we're looking at here, how it's derived and what the data tells us. >> Certainly, so there is a lot here, so we're going to break it down first of all by explaining just what mindshare and net sentiment is. You explain the axis. We have so many evaluation metrics, but we need to aggregate them into one so that way we can rank against each other. Net sentiment is really the aggregation of all the positive and subtracting out the negative. So the net sentiment is a very quick way of looking at where these companies stand versus their peers in their sectors and sub sectors. Mindshare is basically the awareness of them, which is good for very early stage companies. And you'll see some names on here that are obviously been around for a very long time. And they're clearly be the bigger on the axis on the outside. Kubernetes, for instance, as you mentioned, is open source. This de facto standard for all container orchestration, and it should be that far up into the right, because that's what everyone's using. In fact, the open source leaders are so prevalent in the emerging technology survey that we break them out later in our analysis, 'cause it's really not fair to include them and compare them to the actual companies that are providing the support and the security around that open source technology. But no survey, no analysis, no research would be complete without including these open source tech. So what we're looking at here, if I can just get away from the open source names, we see other things like Databricks and OneTrust . They're repeating as top net sentiment performers here. And then also the design vendors. People don't spend a lot of time on 'em, but Miro and Figma. This is their third survey in a row where they're just dominating that sentiment overall. And Adobe should probably take note of that because they're really coming after them. But Databricks, we all know probably would've been a public company by now if the market hadn't turned, but you can see just how dominant they are in a survey of nothing but private companies. And we'll see that again when we talk about the database later. >> And I'll just add, so you see automation anywhere on there, the big UiPath competitor company that was not able to get to the public markets. They've been trying. Snyk, Peter McKay's company, they've raised a bunch of money, big security player. They're doing some really interesting things in developer security, helping developers secure the data flow, H2O.ai, Dataiku AI company. We saw them at the Snowflake Summit. Redis Labs, Netskope and security. So a lot of names that we know that ultimately we think are probably going to be hitting the public market. Okay, here's the same view for private companies with less mindshare, Erik. Take us through this one. >> On the previous slide too real quickly, I wanted to pull that security scorecard and we'll get back into it. But this is a newcomer, that I couldn't believe how strong their data was, but we'll bring that up in a second. Now, when we go to the ones of lower mindshare, it's interesting to talk about open source, right? Kubernetes was all the way on the top right. Everyone uses containers. Here we see Istio up there. Not everyone is using service mesh as much. And that's why Istio is in the smaller breakout. But still when you talk about net sentiment, it's about the leader, it's the highest one there is. So really interesting to point out. Then we see other names like Collibra in the data side really performing well. And again, as always security, very well represented here. We have Aqua, Wiz, Armis, which is a standout in this survey this time around. They do IoT security. I hadn't even heard of them until I started digging into the data here. And I couldn't believe how well they were doing. And then of course you have AnyScale, which is doing a second best in this and the best name in the survey Hugging Face, which is a machine learning AI tool. Also doing really well on a net sentiment, but they're not as far along on that access of mindshare just yet. So these are again, emerging companies that might not be as well represented in the enterprise as they will be in a couple of years. >> Hugging Face sounds like something you do with your two year old. Like you said, you see high performers, AnyScale do machine learning and you mentioned them. They came out of Berkeley. Collibra Governance, InfluxData is on there. InfluxDB's a time series database. And yeah, of course, Alex, if you bring that back up, you get a big group of red dots, right? That's the bad zone, I guess, which Sisense does vis, Yellowbrick Data is a NPP database. How should we interpret the red dots, Erik? I mean, is it necessarily a bad thing? Could it be misinterpreted? What's your take on that? >> Sure, well, let me just explain the definition of it first from a data science perspective, right? We're a data company first. So the gray dots that you're seeing that aren't named, that's the mean that's the average. So in order for you to be on this chart, you have to be at least one standard deviation above or below that average. So that gray is where we're saying, "Hey, this is where the lump of average comes in. This is where everyone normally stands." So you either have to be an outperformer or an underperformer to even show up in this analysis. So by definition, yes, the red dots are bad. You're at least one standard deviation below the average of your peers. It's not where you want to be. And if you're on the lower left, not only are you not performing well from a utilization or an actual usage rate, but people don't even know who you are. So that's a problem, obviously. And the VCs and the PEs out there that are backing these companies, they're the ones who mostly are interested in this data. >> Yeah. Oh, that's great explanation. Thank you for that. No, nice benchmarking there and yeah, you don't want to be in the red. All right, let's get into the next segment here. Here going to look at evaluation rates, adoption and the all important churn. First new evaluations. Let's bring up that slide. And Erik, take us through this. >> So essentially I just want to explain what evaluation means is that people will cite that they either plan to evaluate the company or they're currently evaluating. So that means we're aware of 'em and we are choosing to do a POC of them. And then we'll see later how that turns into utilization, which is what a company wants to see, awareness, evaluation, and then actually utilizing them. That's sort of the life cycle for these emerging companies. So what we're seeing here, again, with very high evaluation rates. H2O, we mentioned. SecurityScorecard jumped up again. Chargebee, Snyk, Salt Security, Armis. A lot of security names are up here, Aqua, Netskope, which God has been around forever. I still can't believe it's in an Emerging Technology Survey But so many of these names fall in data and security again, which is why we decided to pick those out Dave. And on the lower side, Vena, Acton, those unfortunately took the dubious award of the lowest evaluations in our survey, but I prefer to focus on the positive. So SecurityScorecard, again, real standout in this one, they're in a security assessment space, basically. They'll come in and assess for you how your security hygiene is. And it's an area of a real interest right now amongst our ITDM community. >> Yeah, I mean, I think those, and then Arctic Wolf is up there too. They're doing managed services. You had mentioned Netskope. Yeah, okay. All right, let's look at now adoption. These are the companies whose offerings are being used the most and are above that standard deviation in the green. Take us through this, Erik. >> Sure, yet again, what we're looking at is, okay, we went from awareness, we went to evaluation. Now it's about utilization, which means a survey respondent's going to state "Yes, we evaluated and we plan to utilize it" or "It's already in our enterprise and we're actually allocating further resources to it." Not surprising, again, a lot of open source, the reason why, it's free. So it's really easy to grow your utilization on something that's free. But as you and I both know, as Red Hat proved, there's a lot of money to be made once the open source is adopted, right? You need the governance, you need the security, you need the support wrapped around it. So here we're seeing Kubernetes, Postgres, Apache Kafka, Jenkins, Grafana. These are all open source based names. But if we're looking at names that are non open source, we're going to see Databricks, Automation Anywhere, Rubrik all have the highest mindshare. So these are the names, not surprisingly, all names that probably should have been public by now. Everyone's expecting an IPO imminently. These are the names that have the highest mindshare. If we talk about the highest utilization rates, again, Miro and Figma pop up, and I know they're not household names, but they are just dominant in this survey. These are applications that are meant for design software and, again, they're going after an Autodesk or a CAD or Adobe type of thing. It is just dominant how high the utilization rates are here, which again is something Adobe should be paying attention to. And then you'll see a little bit lower, but also interesting, we see Collibra again, we see Hugging Face again. And these are names that are obviously in the data governance, ML, AI side. So we're seeing a ton of data, a ton of security and Rubrik was interesting in this one, too, high utilization and high mindshare. We know how pervasive they are in the enterprise already. >> Erik, Alex, keep that up for a second, if you would. So yeah, you mentioned Rubrik. Cohesity's not on there. They're sort of the big one. We're going to talk about them in a moment. Puppet is interesting to me because you remember the early days of that sort of space, you had Puppet and Chef and then you had Ansible. Red Hat bought Ansible and then Ansible really took off. So it's interesting to see Puppet on there as well. Okay. So now let's look at the churn because this one is where you don't want to be. It's, of course, all red 'cause churn is bad. Take us through this, Erik. >> Yeah, definitely don't want to be here and I don't love to dwell on the negative. So we won't spend as much time. But to your point, there's one thing I want to point out that think it's important. So you see Rubrik in the same spot, but Rubrik has so many citations in our survey that it actually would make sense that they're both being high utilization and churn just because they're so well represented. They have such a high overall representation in our survey. And the reason I call that out is Cohesity. Cohesity has an extremely high churn rate here about 17% and unlike Rubrik, they were not on the utilization side. So Rubrik is seeing both, Cohesity is not. It's not being utilized, but it's seeing a high churn. So that's the way you can look at this data and say, "Hm." Same thing with Puppet. You noticed that it was on the other slide. It's also on this one. So basically what it means is a lot of people are giving Puppet a shot, but it's starting to churn, which means it's not as sticky as we would like. One that was surprising on here for me was Tanium. It's kind of jumbled in there. It's hard to see in the middle, but Tanium, I was very surprised to see as high of a churn because what I do hear from our end user community is that people that use it, like it. It really kind of spreads into not only vulnerability management, but also that endpoint detection and response side. So I was surprised by that one, mostly to see Tanium in here. Mural, again, was another one of those application design softwares that's seeing a very high churn as well. >> So you're saying if you're in both... Alex, bring that back up if you would. So if you're in both like MariaDB is for example, I think, yeah, they're in both. They're both green in the previous one and red here, that's not as bad. You mentioned Rubrik is going to be in both. Cohesity is a bit of a concern. Cohesity just brought on Sanjay Poonen. So this could be a go to market issue, right? I mean, 'cause Cohesity has got a great product and they got really happy customers. So they're just maybe having to figure out, okay, what's the right ideal customer profile and Sanjay Poonen, I guarantee, is going to have that company cranking. I mean they had been doing very well on the surveys and had fallen off of a bit. The other interesting things wondering the previous survey I saw Cvent, which is an event platform. My only reason I pay attention to that is 'cause we actually have an event platform. We don't sell it separately. We bundle it as part of our offerings. And you see Hopin on here. Hopin raised a billion dollars during the pandemic. And we were like, "Wow, that's going to blow up." And so you see Hopin on the churn and you didn't see 'em in the previous chart, but that's sort of interesting. Like you said, let's not kind of dwell on the negative, but you really don't. You know, churn is a real big concern. Okay, now we're going to drill down into two sectors, security and data. Where data comprises three areas, database and data warehousing, machine learning and AI and big data analytics. So first let's take a look at the security sector. Now this is interesting because not only is it a sector drill down, but also gives an indicator of how much money the firm has raised, which is the size of that bubble. And to tell us if a company is punching above its weight and efficiently using its venture capital. Erik, take us through this slide. Explain the dots, the size of the dots. Set this up please. >> Yeah. So again, the axis is still the same, net sentiment and mindshare, but what we've done this time is we've taken publicly available information on how much capital company is raised and that'll be the size of the circle you see around the name. And then whether it's green or red is basically saying relative to the amount of money they've raised, how are they doing in our data? So when you see a Netskope, which has been around forever, raised a lot of money, that's why you're going to see them more leading towards red, 'cause it's just been around forever and kind of would expect it. Versus a name like SecurityScorecard, which is only raised a little bit of money and it's actually performing just as well, if not better than a name, like a Netskope. OneTrust doing absolutely incredible right now. BeyondTrust. We've seen the issues with Okta, right. So those are two names that play in that space that obviously are probably getting some looks about what's going on right now. Wiz, we've all heard about right? So raised a ton of money. It's doing well on net sentiment, but the mindshare isn't as well as you'd want, which is why you're going to see a little bit of that red versus a name like Aqua, which is doing container and application security. And hasn't raised as much money, but is really neck and neck with a name like Wiz. So that is why on a relative basis, you'll see that more green. As we all know, information security is never going away. But as we'll get to later in the program, Dave, I'm not sure in this current market environment, if people are as willing to do POCs and switch away from their security provider, right. There's a little bit of tepidness out there, a little trepidation. So right now we're seeing overall a slight pause, a slight cooling in overall evaluations on the security side versus historical levels a year ago. >> Now let's stay on here for a second. So a couple things I want to point out. So it's interesting. Now Snyk has raised over, I think $800 million but you can see them, they're high on the vertical and the horizontal, but now compare that to Lacework. It's hard to see, but they're kind of buried in the middle there. That's the biggest dot in this whole thing. I think I'm interpreting this correctly. They've raised over a billion dollars. It's a Mike Speiser company. He was the founding investor in Snowflake. So people watch that very closely, but that's an example of where they're not punching above their weight. They recently had a layoff and they got to fine tune things, but I'm still confident they they're going to do well. 'Cause they're approaching security as a data problem, which is probably people having trouble getting their arms around that. And then again, I see Arctic Wolf. They're not red, they're not green, but they've raised fair amount of money, but it's showing up to the right and decent level there. And a couple of the other ones that you mentioned, Netskope. Yeah, they've raised a lot of money, but they're actually performing where you want. What you don't want is where Lacework is, right. They've got some work to do to really take advantage of the money that they raised last November and prior to that. >> Yeah, if you're seeing that more neutral color, like you're calling out with an Arctic Wolf, like that means relative to their peers, this is where they should be. It's when you're seeing that red on a Lacework where we all know, wow, you raised a ton of money and your mindshare isn't where it should be. Your net sentiment is not where it should be comparatively. And then you see these great standouts, like Salt Security and SecurityScorecard and Abnormal. You know they haven't raised that much money yet, but their net sentiment's higher and their mindshare's doing well. So those basically in a nutshell, if you're a PE or a VC and you see a small green circle, then you're doing well, then it means you made a good investment. >> Some of these guys, I don't know, but you see these small green circles. Those are the ones you want to start digging into and maybe help them catch a wave. Okay, let's get into the data discussion. And again, three areas, database slash data warehousing, big data analytics and ML AI. First, we're going to look at the database sector. So Alex, thank you for bringing that up. Alright, take us through this, Erik. Actually, let me just say Postgres SQL. I got to ask you about this. It shows some funding, but that actually could be a mix of EDB, the company that commercializes Postgres and Postgres the open source database, which is a transaction system and kind of an open source Oracle. You see MariaDB is a database, but open source database. But the companies they've raised over $200 million and they filed an S-4. So Erik looks like this might be a little bit of mashup of companies and open source products. Help us understand this. >> Yeah, it's tough when you start dealing with the open source side and I'll be honest with you, there is a little bit of a mashup here. There are certain names here that are a hundred percent for profit companies. And then there are others that are obviously open source based like Redis is open source, but Redis Labs is the one trying to monetize the support around it. So you're a hundred percent accurate on this slide. I think one of the things here that's important to note though, is just how important open source is to data. If you're going to be going to any of these areas, it's going to be open source based to begin with. And Neo4j is one I want to call out here. It's not one everyone's familiar with, but it's basically geographical charting database, which is a name that we're seeing on a net sentiment side actually really, really high. When you think about it's the third overall net sentiment for a niche database play. It's not as big on the mindshare 'cause it's use cases aren't as often, but third biggest play on net sentiment. I found really interesting on this slide. >> And again, so MariaDB, as I said, they filed an S-4 I think $50 million in revenue, that might even be ARR. So they're not huge, but they're getting there. And by the way, MariaDB, if you don't know, was the company that was formed the day that Oracle bought Sun in which they got MySQL and MariaDB has done a really good job of replacing a lot of MySQL instances. Oracle has responded with MySQL HeatWave, which was kind of the Oracle version of MySQL. So there's some interesting battles going on there. If you think about the LAMP stack, the M in the LAMP stack was MySQL. And so now it's all MariaDB replacing that MySQL for a large part. And then you see again, the red, you know, you got to have some concerns about there. Aerospike's been around for a long time. SingleStore changed their name a couple years ago, last year. Yellowbrick Data, Fire Bolt was kind of going after Snowflake for a while, but yeah, you want to get out of that red zone. So they got some work to do. >> And Dave, real quick for the people that aren't aware, I just want to let them know that we can cut this data with the public company data as well. So we can cross over this with that because some of these names are competing with the larger public company names as well. So we can go ahead and cross reference like a MariaDB with a Mongo, for instance, or of something of that nature. So it's not in this slide, but at another point we can certainly explain on a relative basis how these private names are doing compared to the other ones as well. >> All right, let's take a quick look at analytics. Alex, bring that up if you would. Go ahead, Erik. >> Yeah, I mean, essentially here, I can't see it on my screen, my apologies. I just kind of went to blank on that. So gimme one second to catch up. >> So I could set it up while you're doing that. You got Grafana up and to the right. I mean, this is huge right. >> Got it thank you. I lost my screen there for a second. Yep. Again, open source name Grafana, absolutely up and to the right. But as we know, Grafana Labs is actually picking up a lot of speed based on Grafana, of course. And I think we might actually hear some noise from them coming this year. The names that are actually a little bit more disappointing than I want to call out are names like ThoughtSpot. It's been around forever. Their mindshare of course is second best here but based on the amount of time they've been around and the amount of money they've raised, it's not actually outperforming the way it should be. We're seeing Moogsoft obviously make some waves. That's very high net sentiment for that company. It's, you know, what, third, fourth position overall in this entire area, Another name like Fivetran, Matillion is doing well. Fivetran, even though it's got a high net sentiment, again, it's raised so much money that we would've expected a little bit more at this point. I know you know this space extremely well, but basically what we're looking at here and to the bottom left, you're going to see some names with a lot of red, large circles that really just aren't performing that well. InfluxData, however, second highest net sentiment. And it's really pretty early on in this stage and the feedback we're getting on this name is the use cases are great, the efficacy's great. And I think it's one to watch out for. >> InfluxData, time series database. The other interesting things I just noticed here, you got Tamer on here, which is that little small green. Those are the ones we were saying before, look for those guys. They might be some of the interesting companies out there and then observe Jeremy Burton's company. They do observability on top of Snowflake, not green, but kind of in that gray. So that's kind of cool. Monte Carlo is another one, they're sort of slightly green. They are doing some really interesting things in data and data mesh. So yeah, okay. So I can spend all day on this stuff, Erik, phenomenal data. I got to get back and really dig in. Let's end with machine learning and AI. Now this chart it's similar in its dimensions, of course, except for the money raised. We're not showing that size of the bubble, but AI is so hot. We wanted to cover that here, Erik, explain this please. Why TensorFlow is highlighted and walk us through this chart. >> Yeah, it's funny yet again, right? Another open source name, TensorFlow being up there. And I just want to explain, we do break out machine learning, AI is its own sector. A lot of this of course really is intertwined with the data side, but it is on its own area. And one of the things I think that's most important here to break out is Databricks. We started to cover Databricks in machine learning, AI. That company has grown into much, much more than that. So I do want to state to you Dave, and also the audience out there that moving forward, we're going to be moving Databricks out of only the MA/AI into other sectors. So we can kind of value them against their peers a little bit better. But in this instance, you could just see how dominant they are in this area. And one thing that's not here, but I do want to point out is that we have the ability to break this down by industry vertical, organization size. And when I break this down into Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000, both Databricks and Tensorflow are even better than you see here. So it's quite interesting to see that the names that are succeeding are also succeeding with the largest organizations in the world. And as we know, large organizations means large budgets. So this is one area that I just thought was really interesting to point out that as we break it down, the data by vertical, these two names still are the outstanding players. >> I just also want to call it H2O.ai. They're getting a lot of buzz in the marketplace and I'm seeing them a lot more. Anaconda, another one. Dataiku consistently popping up. DataRobot is also interesting because all the kerfuffle that's going on there. The Cube guy, Cube alum, Chris Lynch stepped down as executive chairman. All this stuff came out about how the executives were taking money off the table and didn't allow the employees to participate in that money raising deal. So that's pissed a lot of people off. And so they're now going through some kind of uncomfortable things, which is unfortunate because DataRobot, I noticed, we haven't covered them that much in "Breaking Analysis", but I've noticed them oftentimes, Erik, in the surveys doing really well. So you would think that company has a lot of potential. But yeah, it's an important space that we're going to continue to watch. Let me ask you Erik, can you contextualize this from a time series standpoint? I mean, how is this changed over time? >> Yeah, again, not show here, but in the data. I'm sorry, go ahead. >> No, I'm sorry. What I meant, I should have interjected. In other words, you would think in a downturn that these emerging companies would be less interesting to buyers 'cause they're more risky. What have you seen? >> Yeah, and it was interesting before we went live, you and I were having this conversation about "Is the downturn stopping people from evaluating these private companies or not," right. In a larger sense, that's really what we're doing here. How are these private companies doing when it comes down to the actual practitioners? The people with the budget, the people with the decision making. And so what I did is, we have historical data as you know, I went back to the Emerging Technology Survey we did in November of 21, right at the crest right before the market started to really fall and everything kind of started to fall apart there. And what I noticed is on the security side, very much so, we're seeing less evaluations than we were in November 21. So I broke it down. On cloud security, net sentiment went from 21% to 16% from November '21. That's a pretty big drop. And again, that sentiment is our one aggregate metric for overall positivity, meaning utilization and actual evaluation of the name. Again in database, we saw it drop a little bit from 19% to 13%. However, in analytics we actually saw it stay steady. So it's pretty interesting that yes, cloud security and security in general is always going to be important. But right now we're seeing less overall net sentiment in that space. But within analytics, we're seeing steady with growing mindshare. And also to your point earlier in machine learning, AI, we're seeing steady net sentiment and mindshare has grown a whopping 25% to 30%. So despite the downturn, we're seeing more awareness of these companies in analytics and machine learning and a steady, actual utilization of them. I can't say the same in security and database. They're actually shrinking a little bit since the end of last year. >> You know it's interesting, we were on a round table, Erik does these round tables with CISOs and CIOs, and I remember one time you had asked the question, "How do you think about some of these emerging tech companies?" And one of the executives said, "I always include somebody in the bottom left of the Gartner Magic Quadrant in my RFPs. I think he said, "That's how I found," I don't know, it was Zscaler or something like that years before anybody ever knew of them "Because they're going to help me get to the next level." So it's interesting to see Erik in these sectors, how they're holding up in many cases. >> Yeah. It's a very important part for the actual IT practitioners themselves. There's always contracts coming up and you always have to worry about your next round of negotiations. And that's one of the roles these guys play. You have to do a POC when contracts come up, but it's also their job to stay on top of the new technology. You can't fall behind. Like everyone's a software company. Now everyone's a tech company, no matter what you're doing. So these guys have to stay in on top of it. And that's what this ETS can do. You can go in here and look and say, "All right, I'm going to evaluate their technology," and it could be twofold. It might be that you're ready to upgrade your technology and they're actually pushing the envelope or it simply might be I'm using them as a negotiation ploy. So when I go back to the big guy who I have full intentions of writing that contract to, at least I have some negotiation leverage. >> Erik, we got to leave it there. I could spend all day. I'm going to definitely dig into this on my own time. Thank you for introducing this, really appreciate your time today. >> I always enjoy it, Dave and I hope everyone out there has a great holiday weekend. Enjoy the rest of the summer. And, you know, I love to talk data. So anytime you want, just point the camera on me and I'll start talking data. >> You got it. I also want to thank the team at ETR, not only Erik, but Darren Bramen who's a data scientist, really helped prepare this data, the entire team over at ETR. I cannot tell you how much additional data there is. We are just scratching the surface in this "Breaking Analysis". So great job guys. I want to thank Alex Myerson. Who's on production and he manages the podcast. Ken Shifman as well, who's just coming back from VMware Explore. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at SiliconANGLE. Does some great editing for us. Thank you. All of you guys. Remember these episodes, they're all available as podcast, wherever you listen. All you got to do is just search "Breaking Analysis" podcast. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. Or you can email me to get in touch david.vellante@siliconangle.com. You can DM me at dvellante or comment on my LinkedIn posts and please do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for Erik Bradley and The Cube Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching. Be well. And we'll see you next time on "Breaking Analysis". (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, everyone. Welcome back to theCUBE's extended coverage. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We are here in Monaco at the Yacht Club, part of the VIP Gala with Prince Albert, DigitalBits, theCUBE. theCUBE and Prince Albert celebrating Monaco leaning into crypto. I'm here with Natasha Mahfar, who's our guest. She just came on theCUBE. Great story. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> Tell the folks what you do real quick. >> Sure. So I actually started my career in Silicon Valley, like you have. And I had the idea of creating a startup in mental health that was voice based only. So it was peer to peer support groups via voice. So I created this startup, pretended to be a student at Stanford and built out a whole team, and unfortunately, at that time, no one was in the space of mental health and voice. Now, as you know, it's a $30 billion industry that's one of the biggest in Silicon Valley. So my career really started from there. And due to that startup, I got involved in the World XR Forum. Now, the World XR Forum is kind of like a mini Davos, but a little bit more exclusive, where we host entrepreneurs, people in blockchain, crypto, and we have a five day event covering all sorts of topics. So- >> When you host them, you mean like host them and they hang out and sleep over? It's a hotel? Is it an event? A workshop? >> There's workshops. We arrange hotels. We pretty much arrange everything that there is. >> It's a group get together. >> It's a group get together. Pretty much like Davos. >> And so Natasha, I wanted to talk to you about what we're passionate about which is theCUBE is bringing people up to have a voice and give them a voice. Give people a platform. You don't have to be famous. If you have something to say and share, we found that right now in this environment with media, we go out to an event, we stream as many stories, but we also have the virtual version of our studio. And I could tell you, I've found that internationally now as we bring people together, there are so many great stories. >> Absolutely. >> Out there that need to be told. And the bottleneck isn't the media, it's the fact that it's open now. >> Yes. >> So why aren't the stories coming out? So our mission is to get the stories. >> Wow. >> Scale stories. The more stories that are scaled, the more people can feel it. More people are impacted by it, and it changes the world. It gets people serendipity with data 'cause we're, you know, you shared some data about what you're working on. >> Yeah, of course. It's all about data these days. And the fact that you're doing it so openly is great because there is a need for that today, so. >> What do you see right now in the market for media? I mean, we got emerging markets, a lot of misinformation. Trust is a big problem. >> Right. >> Bullying, harassing. Smear campaigns. What's news, what's not news. I mean, how do you get your news? I mean, how do people figure out what's going on? >> No, absolutely. And this is such a pure format and a way of doing it. How did you come up with the idea, and how did you start? >> Well, I started... I realized after the Web 2.0, when social media started taking over and ruining the democratization . Blogging, podcasting, which I started in 2004, one of the first podcasts in Silicon Valley. >> Wow. >> I saw the network of that. I saw the value that people had when normal people, they call it user generated content, shared information. And I discovered something amazing that a nobody like me can have a really top podcast. >> Well, you're definitely not a nobody, but... >> Well, I was back then. And nobody knew me back then. But what it is is that even... If you put your voice out there, people will connect to it. And if you have the ability to bring other people in, you start to see a social dynamic. And what social media ruined, Facebook, Twitter, not so much Twitter 'cause Twitter's more smeary, but it's still got to open the API, LinkedIn, they're all terrible. They're all gardens. They don't really bring people together, so I think that stalled for about almost eight years or nine years. Now, with crypto and decentralization, you start to see the same thing come back. Democratization, level the playing field, remove the middle man and person, intermediate the middle bottlenecks. So with media, we found that live streaming and going to events was what the community wants. And then interviewing people, and getting their ideas out there. Not promotional, not getting paid to say stuff. Yeah, they get the plug in for the company that they're working on, that's good for everybody. But more share something that you're passionate about, data. And it works. And people like it. And we've been doing it for 12 years, and it creates a great brand of openness, community, and network effect. So we scaled up the brand to be- >> And it seems like you're international now. I mean, we're sitting in Monte Carlo, so I don't think it gets better than that. >> Well, in 2016, we started going international. 2017, we started doing stuff in Europe. 2018, we did the crypto, Middle East. And we also did London, a lot of different events. We had B2B Enterprise and Crypto Blooming. 2019, we were like, "Let's go global with staff and whatnot." >> Wow. >> And the pandemic hits. >> I know. >> And that really kind of allowed us to pivot and turn us into a virtual hybrid. And that's why we're into the metaverse, as we see the value of a physical face to face event where intimacy's there, but why aren't my friends connected first party? >> Right. How much would you say the company has grown from the time that you kind of pivoted? >> Well, we've grown in a different direction with new capabilities because the old way is over. >> Right. >> Every event right now, this event here, is in person. People are talking. They get connections. But every person that's connecting has a social graph behind them that's online too, and immediately available. And with Instagram, direct messaging, Telegram, Signal, all there. >> It's brilliant. Honestly, it was brilliant idea and a brilliant pivot. >> Thank you for interviewing me. >> Yeah, of course. (Natasha and John laugh) >> Any other questions? >> That should do it. >> Okay. Are you going to have fun tonight? >> Absolutely. >> What is your take of the Monaco scene here? What's it like? >> You know, I think it's a really interesting scene. I think there's a lot of potential because this is such an international place so it draws a very eclectic crowd, and I think there's a lot that could be done here. And you have a lot of people from Europe that are starting to get into this whole crypto, leaving kind of the traditional banks and finance behind. So I think the potential is very strong. >> Very progressive. Well, Natasha, thank you for sharing. >> Thank you so much. >> Here on theCUBE. We're the extended edition CUBE here in Monaco with Prince Albert, theCUBE, and Prince Albert, DigitalBits Al Burgio, a great market here for them. And just an amazing time. And thanks for watching. Natasha, thanks for coming on. Thanks for watching theCUBE. We'll be back with more after this break. (upbeat music)

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is "Breaking Analysis" with Dave Vellante. >> Snowflake Summit 2022 underscored that the ecosystem excitement which was once forming around Hadoop is being reborn, escalated and coalescing around Snowflake's data cloud. What was once seen as a simpler cloud data warehouse and good marketing with the data cloud is evolving rapidly with new workloads of vertical industry focus, data applications, monetization, and more. The question is, will the promise of data be fulfilled this time around, or is it same wine, new bottle? Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this "Breaking Analysis," we'll talk about the event, the announcements that Snowflake made that are of greatest interest, the major themes of the show, what was hype and what was real, the competition, and some concerns that remain in many parts of the ecosystem and pockets of customers. First let's look at the overall event. It was held at Caesars Forum. Not my favorite venue, but I'll tell you it was packed. Fire Marshall Full, as we sometimes say. Nearly 10,000 people attended the event. Here's Snowflake's CMO Denise Persson on theCUBE describing how this event has evolved. >> Yeah, two, three years ago, we were about 1800 people at a Hilton in San Francisco. We had about 40 partners attending. This week we're close to 10,000 attendees here. Almost 10,000 people online as well, and over over 200 partners here on the show floor. >> Now, those numbers from 2019 remind me of the early days of Hadoop World, which was put on by Cloudera but then Cloudera handed off the event to O'Reilly as this article that we've inserted, if you bring back that slide would say. The headline it almost got it right. Hadoop World was a failure, but it didn't have to be. Snowflake has filled the void created by O'Reilly when it first killed Hadoop World, and killed the name and then killed Strata. Now, ironically, the momentum and excitement from Hadoop's early days, it probably could have stayed with Cloudera but the beginning of the end was when they gave the conference over to O'Reilly. We can't imagine Frank Slootman handing the keys to the kingdom to a third party. Serious business was done at this event. I'm talking substantive deals. Salespeople from a host sponsor and the ecosystems that support these events, they love physical. They really don't like virtual because physical belly to belly means relationship building, pipeline, and deals. And that was blatantly obvious at this show. And in fairness, all theCUBE events that we've done year but this one was more vibrant because of its attendance and the action in the ecosystem. Ecosystem is a hallmark of a cloud company, and that's what Snowflake is. We asked Frank Slootman on theCUBE, was this ecosystem evolution by design or did Snowflake just kind of stumble into it? Here's what he said. >> Well, when you are a data clouding, you have data, people want to do things with that data. They don't want just run data operations, populate dashboards, run reports. Pretty soon they want to build applications and after they build applications, they want build businesses on it. So it goes on and on and on. So it drives your development to enable more and more functionality on that data cloud. Didn't start out that way, you know, we were very, very much focused on data operations. Then it becomes application development and then it becomes, hey, we're developing whole businesses on this platform. So similar to what happened to Facebook in many ways. >> So it sounds like it was maybe a little bit of both. The Facebook analogy is interesting because Facebook is a walled garden, as is Snowflake, but when you come into that garden, you have assurances that things are going to work in a very specific way because a set of standards and protocols is being enforced by a steward, i.e. Snowflake. This means things run better inside of Snowflake than if you try to do all the integration yourself. Now, maybe over time, an open source version of that will come out but if you wait for that, you're going to be left behind. That said, Snowflake has made moves to make its platform more accommodating to open source tooling in many of its announcements this week. Now, I'm not going to do a deep dive on the announcements. Matt Sulkins from Monte Carlo wrote a decent summary of the keynotes and a number of analysts like Sanjeev Mohan, Tony Bear and others are posting some deeper analysis on these innovations, and so we'll point to those. I'll say a few things though. Unistore extends the type of data that can live in the Snowflake data cloud. It's enabled by a new feature called hybrid tables, a new table type in Snowflake. One of the big knocks against Snowflake was it couldn't handle and transaction data. Several database companies are creating this notion of a hybrid where both analytic and transactional workloads can live in the same data store. Oracle's doing this for example, with MySQL HeatWave and there are many others. We saw Mongo earlier this month add an analytics capability to its transaction system. Mongo also added sequel, which was kind of interesting. Here's what Constellation Research analyst Doug Henschen said about Snowflake's moves into transaction data. Play the clip. >> Well with Unistore, they're reaching out and trying to bring transactional data in. Hey, don't limit this to analytical information and there's other ways to do that like CDC and streaming but they're very closely tying that again to that marketplace, with the idea of bring your data over here and you can monetize it. Don't just leave it in that transactional database. So another reach to a broader play across a big community that they're building. >> And you're also seeing Snowflake expand its workload types in its unique way and through Snowpark and its stream lit acquisition, enabling Python so that native apps can be built in the data cloud and benefit from all that structure and the features that Snowflake is built in. Hence that Facebook analogy, or maybe the App Store, the Apple App Store as I propose as well. Python support also widens the aperture for machine intelligence workloads. We asked Snowflake senior VP of product, Christian Kleinerman which announcements he thought were the most impactful. And despite the who's your favorite child nature of the question, he did answer. Here's what he said. >> I think the native applications is the one that looks like, eh, I don't know about it on the surface but he has the biggest potential to change everything. That's create an entire ecosystem of solutions for within a company or across companies that I don't know that we know what's possible. >> Snowflake also announced support for Apache Iceberg, which is a new open table format standard that's emerging. So you're seeing Snowflake respond to these concerns about its lack of openness, and they're building optionality into their cloud. They also showed some cost op optimization tools both from Snowflake itself and from the ecosystem, notably Capital One which launched a software business on top of Snowflake focused on optimizing cost and eventually the rollout data management capabilities, and all kinds of features that Snowflake announced that the show around governance, cross cloud, what we call super cloud, a new security workload, and they reemphasize their ability to read non-native on-prem data into Snowflake through partnerships with Dell and Pure and a lot more. Let's hear from some of the analysts that came on theCUBE this week at Snowflake Summit to see what they said about the announcements and their takeaways from the event. This is Dave Menninger, Sanjeev Mohan, and Tony Bear, roll the clip. >> Our research shows that the majority of organizations, the majority of people do not have access to analytics. And so a couple of the things they've announced I think address those or help to address those issues very directly. So Snowpark and support for Python and other languages is a way for organizations to embed analytics into different business processes. And so I think that'll be really beneficial to try and get analytics into more people's hands. And I also think that the native applications as part of the marketplace is another way to get applications into people's hands rather than just analytical tools. Because most people in the organization are not analysts. They're doing some line of business function. They're HR managers, they're marketing people, they're sales people, they're finance people, right? They're not sitting there mucking around in the data, they're doing a job and they need analytics in that job. >> Primarily, I think it is to contract this whole notion that once you move data into Snowflake, it's a proprietary format. So I think that's how it started but it's usually beneficial to the customers, to the users because now if you have large amount of data in paket files you can leave it on S3, but then you using the Apache Iceberg table format in Snowflake, you get all the benefits of Snowflake's optimizer. So for example, you get the micro partitioning, you get the metadata. And in a single query, you can join, you can do select from a Snowflake table union and select from an iceberg table and you can do store procedure, user defined function. So I think what they've done is extremely interesting. Iceberg by itself still does not have multi-table transactional capabilities. So if I'm running a workload, I might be touching 10 different tables. So if I use Apache Iceberg in a raw format, they don't have it, but Snowflake does. So the way I see it is Snowflake is adding more and more capabilities right into the database. So for example, they've gone ahead and added security and privacy. So you can now create policies and do even cell level masking, dynamic masking, but most organizations have more than Snowflake. So what we are starting to see all around here is that there's a whole series of data catalog companies, a bunch of companies that are doing dynamic data masking, security and governance, data observability which is not a space Snowflake has gone into. So there's a whole ecosystem of companies that is mushrooming. Although, you know, so they're using the native capabilities of Snowflake but they are at a level higher. So if you have a data lake and a cloud data warehouse and you have other like relational databases, you can run these cross platform capabilities in that layer. So that way, you know, Snowflake's done a great job of enabling that ecosystem. >> I think it's like the last mile, essentially. In other words, it's like, okay, you have folks that are basically that are very comfortable with Tableau but you do have developers who don't want to have to shell out to a separate tool. And so this is where Snowflake is essentially working to address that constituency. To Sanjeev's point, and I think part of it, this kind of plays into it is what makes this different from the Hadoop era is the fact that all these capabilities, you know, a lot of vendors are taking it very seriously to put this native. Now, obviously Snowflake acquired Streamlit. So we can expect that the Streamlit capabilities are going to be native. >> I want to share a little bit about the higher level thinking at Snowflake, here's a chart from Frank Slootman's keynote. It's his version of the modern data stack, if you will. Now, Snowflake of course, was built on the public cloud. If there were no AWS, there would be no Snowflake. Now, they're all about bringing data and live data and expanding the types of data, including structured, we just heard about that, unstructured, geospatial, and the list is going to continue on and on. Eventually I think it's going to bleed into the edge if we can figure out what to do with that edge data. Executing on new workloads is a big deal. They started with data sharing and they recently added security and they've essentially created a PaaS layer. We call it a SuperPaaS layer, if you will, to attract application developers. Snowflake has a developer-focused event coming up in November and they've extended the marketplace with 1300 native apps listings. And at the top, that's the holy grail, monetization. We always talk about building data products and we saw a lot of that at this event, very, very impressive and unique. Now here's the thing. There's a lot of talk in the press, in the Wall Street and the broader community about consumption-based pricing and concerns over Snowflake's visibility and its forecast and how analytics may be discretionary. But if you're a company building apps in Snowflake and monetizing like Capital One intends to do, and you're now selling in the marketplace, that is not discretionary, unless of course your costs are greater than your revenue for that service, in which case is going to fail anyway. But the point is we're entering a new error where data apps and data products are beginning to be built and Snowflake is attempting to make the data cloud the defacto place as to where you're going to build them. In our view they're well ahead in that journey. Okay, let's talk about some of the bigger themes that we heard at the event. Bringing apps to the data instead of moving the data to the apps, this was a constant refrain and one that certainly makes sense from a physics point of view. But having a single source of data that is discoverable, sharable and governed with increasingly robust ecosystem options, it doesn't have to be moved. Sometimes it may have to be moved if you're going across regions, but that's unique and a differentiator for Snowflake in our view. I mean, I'm yet to see a data ecosystem that is as rich and growing as fast as the Snowflake ecosystem. Monetization, we talked about that, industry clouds, financial services, healthcare, retail, and media, all front and center at the event. My understanding is that Frank Slootman was a major force behind this shift, this development and go to market focus on verticals. It's really an attempt, and he talked about this in his keynote to align with the customer mission ultimately align with their objectives which not surprisingly, are increasingly monetizing with data as a differentiating ingredient. We heard a ton about data mesh, there were numerous presentations about the topic. And I'll say this, if you map the seven pillars Snowflake talks about, Benoit Dageville talked about this in his keynote, but if you map those into Zhamak Dehghani's data mesh framework and the four principles, they align better than most of the data mesh washing that I've seen. The seven pillars, all data, all workloads, global architecture, self-managed, programmable, marketplace and governance. Those are the seven pillars that he talked about in his keynote. All data, well, maybe with hybrid tables that becomes more of a reality. Global architecture means the data is globally distributed. It's not necessarily physically in one place. Self-managed is key. Self-service infrastructure is one of Zhamak's four principles. And then inherent governance. Zhamak talks about computational, what I'll call automated governance, built in. And with all the talk about monetization, that aligns with the second principle which is data as product. So while it's not a pure hit and to its credit, by the way, Snowflake doesn't use data mesh in its messaging anymore. But by the way, its customers do, several customers talked about it. Geico, JPMC, and a number of other customers and partners are using the term and using it pretty closely to the concepts put forth by Zhamak Dehghani. But back to the point, they essentially, Snowflake that is, is building a proprietary system that substantially addresses some, if not many of the goals of data mesh. Okay, back to the list, supercloud, that's our term. We saw lots of examples of clouds on top of clouds that are architected to spin multiple clouds, not just run on individual clouds as separate services. And this includes Snowflake's data cloud itself but a number of ecosystem partners that are headed in a very similar direction. Snowflake still talks about data sharing but now it uses the term collaboration in its high level messaging, which is I think smart. Data sharing is kind of a geeky term. And also this is an attempt by Snowflake to differentiate from everyone else that's saying, hey, we do data sharing too. And finally Snowflake doesn't say data marketplace anymore. It's now marketplace, accounting for its application market. Okay, let's take a quick look at the competitive landscape via this ETR X-Y graph. Vertical access remembers net score or spending momentum and the x-axis is penetration, pervasiveness in the data center. That's what ETR calls overlap. Snowflake continues to lead on the vertical axis. They guide it conservatively last quarter, remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if that lofty height, even though it's well down from its earlier levels but I wouldn't be surprised if it ticks down again a bit in the July survey, which will be in the field shortly. Databricks is a key competitor obviously at a strong spending momentum, as you can see. We didn't draw it here but we usually draw that 40% line or red line at 40%, anything above that is considered elevated. So you can see Databricks is quite elevated. But it doesn't have the market presence of Snowflake. It didn't get to IPO during the bubble and it doesn't have nearly as deep and capable go-to market machinery. Now, they're getting better and they're getting some attention in the market, nonetheless. But as a private company, you just naturally, more people are aware of Snowflake. Some analysts, Tony Bear in particular, believe Mongo and Snowflake are on a bit of a collision course long term. I actually can see his point. You know, I mean, they're both platforms, they're both about data. It's long ways off, but you can see them sort of in a similar path. They talk about kind of similar aspirations and visions even though they're quite in different markets today but they're definitely participating in similar tam. The cloud players are probably the biggest or definitely the biggest partners and probably the biggest competitors to Snowflake. And then there's always Oracle. Doesn't have the spending velocity of the others but it's got strong market presence. It owns a cloud and it knows a thing about data and it definitely is a go-to market machine. Okay, we're going to end on some of the things that we heard in the ecosystem. 'Cause look, we've heard before how particular technology, enterprise data warehouse, data hubs, MDM, data lakes, Hadoop, et cetera. We're going to solve all of our data problems and of course they didn't. And in fact, sometimes they create more problems that allow vendors to push more incremental technology to solve the problems that they created. Like tools and platforms to clean up the no schema on right nature of data lakes or data swamps. But here are some of the things that I heard firsthand from some customers and partners. First thing is, they said to me that they're having a hard time keeping up sometimes with the pace of Snowflake. It reminds me of AWS in 2014, 2015 timeframe. You remember that fire hose of announcements which causes increased complexity for customers and partners. I talked to several customers that said, well, yeah this is all well and good but I still need skilled people to understand all these tools that I'm integrated in the ecosystem, the catalogs, the machine learning observability. A number of customers said, I just can't use one governance tool, I need multiple governance tools and a lot of other technologies as well, and they're concerned that that's going to drive up their cost and their complexity. I heard other concerns from the ecosystem that it used to be sort of clear as to where they could add value you know, when Snowflake was just a better data warehouse. But to point number one, they're either concerned that they'll be left behind or they're concerned that they'll be subsumed. Look, I mean, just like we tell AWS customers and partners, you got to move fast, you got to keep innovating. If you don't, you're going to be left. Either if your customer you're going to be left behind your competitor, or if you're a partner, somebody else is going to get there or AWS is going to solve the problem for you. Okay, and there were a number of skeptical practitioners, really thoughtful and experienced data pros that suggested that they've seen this movie before. That's hence the same wine, new bottle. Well, this time around I certainly hope not given all the energy and investment that is going into this ecosystem. And the fact is Snowflake is unquestionably making it easier to put data to work. They built on AWS so you didn't have to worry about provisioning, compute and storage and networking and scaling. Snowflake is optimizing its platform to take advantage of things like Graviton so you don't have to, and they're doing some of their own optimization tools. The ecosystem is building optimization tools so that's all good. And firm belief is the less expensive it is, the more data will get brought into the data cloud. And they're building a data platform on which their ecosystem can build and run data applications, aka data products without having to worry about all the hard work that needs to get done to make data discoverable, shareable, and governed. And unlike the last 10 years, you don't have to be a keeper and integrate all the animals in the Hadoop zoo. Okay, that's it for today, thanks for watching. Thanks to my colleague, Stephanie Chan who helps research "Breaking Analysis" topics. Sometimes Alex Myerson is on production and manages the podcasts. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight help get the word out on social and in our newsletters, and Rob Hof is our editor in chief over at Silicon, and Hailey does some wonderful editing, thanks to all. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis Podcasts. I publish each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com and you can email me at David.Vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @DVellante. If you got something interesting, I'll respond. If you don't, I'm sorry I won't. Or comment on my LinkedIn post. Please check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Thanks for watching, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>>Good morning, everyone. Welcome back to the Cube's coverage of snowflake summit 22 live from Caesar's forum in Las Vegas. Lisa Martin, here with Dave Valante. This is day three of our coverage. We've had an amazing, amazing time. Great conversations talking with snowflake executives, partners, customers. We're gonna be digging into data mesh with data.world. Please welcome John loins, the chief product officer. Great to have you on the program, John, >>Thank you so much for, for having me here. I mean, the summit, like you said, has been incredible, so many great people, so such a good time, really, really nice to be back in person with folks. >>It is fabulous to be back in person. The fact that we're on day four for, for them. And this is the, the solution showcase is as packed as it is at 10 11 in the morning. Yeah. Is saying something >>Yeah. Usually >>Chopping at the bit to hear what they're doing and innovate. >>Absolutely. Usually those last days of conferences, everybody starts getting a little tired, but we're not seeing that at all here, especially >>In Vegas. This is impressive. Talk to the audience a little bit about data.world, what you guys do and talk about the snowflake relationship. >>Absolutely data.world is the only true cloud native enterprise data catalog. We've been an incredible snowflake partner and Snowflake's been an incredible partner to us really since 2018. When we became the first data catalog in the snowflake partner connect experience, you know, snowflake and the data cloud make it so possible. And it's changed so much in terms of being able to, you know, very easily transition data into the cloud to break down those silos and to have a platform that enables folks to be incredibly agile with data from an engineering and infrastructure standpoint, data out world is able to provide a layer of discovery and governance that matches that agility and the ability for a lot of different stakeholders to really participate in the process of data management and data governance. >>So data mesh basically Jamma, Dani lays out the first of all, the, the fault domains of existing data and big data initiatives. And she boils it down to the fact that it's just this monolithic architecture with hyper specialized teams that you have to go through and it just slows everything down and it doesn't scale. They don't have domain context. So she came up with four principles if I may, yep. Domain ownership. So push it out to the businesses. They have the context they should own the data. The second is data as product. We're certainly hearing a lot about that today this week. The third is that. So that makes it sounds good. Push out the, the data great, but it creates two problems. Self-serve infrastructure. Okay. But her premises infrastructure should be an operational detail. And then the fourth is computational governance. So you talked about data CA where do you fit in those four principles? >>You know, honestly, we are able to help teams realize the data mesh architecture. And we know that data mesh is really, it's, it's both a process in a culture change, but then when you want to enact a process in a culture change like this, you also need to select the appropriate tools to match the culture that you're trying to build the process in the architecture that you're trying to build. And the data world data catalog can really help along all four of those axes. When you start thinking first about, let's say like, let's take the first one, you know, data as a product, right? We even like very meta of us from metadata management platform at the end of the day. But very meta of us. When you talk about data as a product, we track adoption and usage of all your data assets within your organization and provide program teams and, you know, offices of the CDO with incredible evented analytics, very detailed that gives them the right audit trail that enables them to direct very scarce data engineering, data architecture resources, to make sure that their data assets are getting adopted and used properly. >>On the, on the domain driven side, we are entirely knowledge graph and open standards based enabling those different domains. We have, you know, incredible joint snowflake customers like Prologis. And we chatted a lot about this in our session here yesterday, where, because of our knowledge graph underpinnings, because of the flexibility of our metadata model, it enables those domains to actually model their assets uniquely from, from group to group, without having to, to relaunch or run different environments. Like you can do that all within one day catalog platform without having to have separate environments for each of those domains, federated governance. Again, the amount of like data exhaust that we create that really enables ambient governance and participatory governance as well. We call it agile data governance, really the adoption of agile and open principles applied to governance to make it more inclusive and transparent. And we provide that in a way that Confederate across those means and make it consistent. >>Okay. So you facilitate across that whole spectrum of, of principles. And so what in the, in the early examples of data mesh that I've studied and actually collaborated with, like with JPMC, who I don't think is who's not using your data catalog, but hello, fresh who may or may not be, but I mean, there, there are numbers and I wanna get to that. But what they've done is they've enabled the domains to spin up their own, whatever data lakes, data, warehouses, data hubs, at least in, in concept, most of 'em are data lakes on AWS, but still in concept, they wanna be inclusive and they've created a master data catalog. And then each domain has its sub catalogue, which feeds into the master and that's how they get consistency and governance and everything else is, is that the right way to think about it? And or do you have a different spin on that? >>Yeah, I, I, you know, I have a slightly different spin on it. I think organizationally it's the right way to think about it. And in absence of a catalog that can truly have multiple federated metadata models, multiple graphs in one platform, I, that is really kind of the, the, the only way to do it, right with data.world. You don't have to do that. You can have one platform, one environment, one instance of data.world that spans all of your domains, enable them to operate independently and then federate across. So >>You just answered my question as to why I should use data.world versus Amazon glue. >>Oh, absolutely. >>And that's a, that's awesome that you've done now. How have you done that? What, what's your secret >>Sauce? The, the secret sauce era is really an all credit to our CTO. One of my closest friends who was a true student of knowledge graph practices and principles, and really felt that the right way to manage metadata and knowledge about the data analytics ecosystem that companies were building was through federated linked data, right? So we use standards and we've built a, a, an open and extensible metadata model that we call costs that really takes the best parts of existing open standards in the semantics space. Things like schema.org, DCA, Dublin core brings them together and models out the most typical enterprise data assets providing you with an ontology that's ready to go. But because of the graph nature of what we do is instantly accessible without having to rebuild environments, without having to do a lot of management against it. It's, it's really quite something. And it's something all of our customers are, are very impressed with and, and, and, and, you know, are getting a lot of leverage out of, >>And, and we have a lot of time today, so we're not gonna shortchange this topic. So one last question, then I'll shut up and let you jump in. This is an open standard. It's not open source. >>No, it's an open built on open standards, built on open standards. We also fundamentally believe in extensibility and openness. We do not want to vertically like lock you into our platform. So everything that we have is API driven API available. Your metadata belongs to you. If you need to export your graph, you know, instantly available in open machine readable formats. That's really, we come from the open data community. That was a lot of the founding of data.world. We, we worked a lot in with the open data community and we, we fundamentally believe in that. And that's enabled a lot of our customers as well to truly take data.world and not have it be a data catalog application, but really an entire metadata management platform and extend it even further into their enterprise to, to really catalog all of their assets, but also to build incredible integrations to things like corporate search, you know, having data assets show up in corporate Wiki search, along with all the, the descriptive metadata that people need has been incredibly powerful and an incredible extension of our platform that I'm so happy to see our customers in. >>So leasing. So it's not exclusive to, to snowflake. It's not exclusive to AWS. You can bring it anywhere. Azure GCP, >>Anytime. Yeah. You know where we are, where we love snowflake, look, we're at the snowflake summit. And we've always had a great relationship with snowflake though, and really leaned in there because we really believe Snowflake's principles, particularly around cloud and being cloud native and the operating advantages that it affords companies that that's really aligned with what we do. And so snowflake was really the first of the cloud data catalogs that we ultimately or say the cloud data warehouses that we integrated with and to see them transition to building really out the data cloud has been awesome. >>Talk about how data world and snowflake enable companies like per lodges to be data companies. These days, every company has to be a data company, but they, they have to be able to do so quickly to be competitive and to, to really win. How do you help them if we like up level the conversation to really impacting the overall business? >>That's a great question, especially right now, everybody knows. And pro is a great example. They're a logistics and supply chain company at the end of the day. And we know how important logistics and supply chain is nowadays and for them and for a lot of our customers. I think one of the advantages of having a data catalog is the ability to build trust, transparency and inclusivity into their data analytics practice by adopting agile principles, by adopting a data mesh, you're able to extend your data analytics practice to a much broader set of stakeholders and to involve them in the process while the work is getting done. One of the greatest things about agile software development, when it became a thing in the early two thousands was how inclusive it was. And that inclusivity led to a much faster ROI on software projects. And we see the same thing happening in data analytics, people, you know, we have amazing data scientists and data analysts coming up with these insights that could be business changing that could make their company significantly more resilient, especially in the face of economic uncertainty. >>But if you have to sit there and argue with your business stakeholders about the validity of the data, about the, the techniques that were used to do the analysis, and it takes you three months to get people to trust what you've done, that opportunity's passed. So how do we shorten those cycles? How do we bring them closer? And that's, that's really a huge benefit that like Prologis has, has, has realized just tightening that cycle time, building trust, building inclusion, and making sure ultimately humans learn by doing, and if you can be inclusive, it, even, it even increases things like that. We all want to, to, to, to help cuz Lord knows the world needs it. Things like data literacy. Yeah. Right. >>So data.world can inform me as to where on the spectrum of data quality, my data set lives. So I can say, okay, this is usable, shareable, you know, exactly of gold standard versus fix this. Right. Okay. Yep. >>Yep. >>That's yeah. Okay. And you could do that with one data catalog, not a bunch of >>Yeah. And trust trust is really a multifaceted and multi multi-angle idea, right? It's not just necessarily data quality or data observability. And we have incredible partnerships in that space, like our partnership with, with Monte Carlo, where we can ingest all their like amazing observability information and display that in a really like a really consumable way in our data catalog. But it also includes things like the lineage who touch it, who is involved in the process of a, can I get a, a, a question answered quickly about this data? What's it been used for previously? And do I understand that it's so multifaceted that you have to be able to really model and present that in a way that's unique to any given organization, even unique within domains within a single organization. >>If you're not, that means to suggest you're a data quality. No, no supplier. Absolutely. But your partner with them and then that you become the, the master catalog. >>That's brilliant. I love it. Exactly. And you're >>You, you just raised your series C 15 million. >>We did. Yeah. So, you know, really lucky to have incredible investors like Goldman Sachs, who, who led our series C it really, I think, communicates the trust that they have in our vision and what we're doing and the impact that we can have on organization's ability to be agile and resilient around data analytics, >>Enabling customers to have that single source of truth is so critical. You talked about trust. That is absolutely. It's no joke. >>Absolutely. >>That is critical. And there's a tremendous amount of business impact, positive business impact that can come from that. What are some of the things that are next for data.world that we're gonna see? >>Oh, you know, I love this. We have such an incredibly innovative team. That's so dedicated to this space and the mission of what we're doing. We're out there trying to fundamentally change how people get data analytics work done together. One of the big reasons I founded the company is I, I really truly believe that data analytics needs to be a team sport. It needs to go from, you know, single player mode to team mode and everything that we've worked on in the last six years has leaned into that. Our architecture being cloud native, we do, we've done over a thousand releases a year that nobody has to manage. You don't have to worry about upgrading your environment. It's a lot of the same story that's made snowflake. So great. We are really excited to have announced in March on our own summit. And we're rolling this suite of features out over the course of the year, a new package of features that we call data.world Eureka, which is a suite of automations and, you know, knowledge driven functionality that really helps you leverage a knowledge graph to make decisions faster and to operationalize your data in, in the data ops way with significantly less effort, >>Big, big impact there. John, thank you so much for joining David, me unpacking what data world is doing. The data mesh, the opportunities that you're giving to customers and every industry. We appreciate your time and congratulations on the news and the funding. >>Ah, thank you. It's been a, a true pleasure. Thank you for having me on and, and I hope, I hope you guys enjoy the rest of, of the day and, and your other guests that you have. Thank you. >>We will. All right. For our guest and Dave ante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cubes third day of coverage of snowflake summit, 22 live from Vegas, Dave and I will be right back with our next guest. So stick around.

>>We're back with the Cube's coverage of Von 2022 from the aria in Las Vegas, we're talking pure data protection and nobody better to talk you about that than pure storage. You can't miss these guys when they're around because the orange crush is here. Dave ante for Dave Nicholson, Michael Sonic is here. He is the vice president of global alliances at pure storage. Michael. Good to see you again. Thanks for the little golf. Appreciate joy Lee. Yeah, appreciate that. Hopefully you get out there my back and, uh, be seen. So how you doing, man? I'm doing face to face. >>It's wonderful to be face to face with the cube. It's, uh, always a pleasure to have the opportunity to spend some time with you. Good to meet you. Good to meet. You have the opportunity to get, spend some time together. You guys, um, it's just great being at a show my first one back. And so I'm, uh, you know, just feeling the energy from the room and, uh, just great to come in here and see the cube all lit >>Up. Yeah. Accelerate 2019 in Austin was an awesome event. And, and one of the last ones that we did before, you know, the pandemic for all of us, um, we did some obviously support for, for virtual. You guys are having another show finally face to face in June. So look forward to that. Got it. >>20 days, 21 days, >>We'll see you there. Right. So tell us about what's going on with Veeam. Give us the update. Yeah, >>Look, we're thrilled to be here as a sponsor for Veeam and for Veeam on, uh, this is a longstanding partnership, you know, us, right. So found in 2009 start shipping product in 2012, um, really disrupted the block storage space with an all flash solution. Yeah. And you know, it's, it's a success story in terms of company going from single product to multi-product to portfolio, to solution. And along that way, the data protection use case and workload has really come into the, you know, kind of center focus for us first with flash blade in the market, which is our unified fast file and object solution. And more recently with flash array C, which is our capacity optimized flash array for block storage, which is a great relationship with Veeam and an area where we've done some, um, significant, you know, joint engineering and the FAC, which is what we refer to it as. >>And the Veeam selling motion is extremely strong. Um, and you know, it's, it's solving a real problem and that is, you know, customers are increasingly being faced with these, um, tighter and tighter SLAs to ensure the availability of their data is there. And then there's also, you know, the, the security element. And I think a term that VES using here was cyber resiliency, which I like, right. I mean, you know, the, um, safe mode integration, which is our solution for IM mutability and, and for, um, anti ransomware or, or one step to take, to, to safeguard yourself in a, against a ransomware event. Um, you know, that those are great complimentary parts of us. And indeed, >>You know, Michael, I, I, I want to ask you about your shared vision with, with Veeam. I remember I was talking to cause on the cube. Um, it might have been a 2019. I can't remember. Might have been the year before that. No, I >>Think shorts or pants. >>Sorry. >>Was he in shorts or pants? He was in pants. >>Ah, okay. So I was pushing him on, well, why don't you do it this way? Why don't you do that? Why don't you do tiering all this stuff? And it just always came back to simplicity. He said, we optimize for simplicity over all this complexity and you know, we'll get the, the function through the ecosystem partnership. So is that the shared vision with Veeam? I mean, that, it's kind of, it's just work. It just works is their mantra. But, but talk about that shared vision as particularly as it relates to data protection and cyber resiliency. >>Yeah. Thanks so much for, for recalling that Dave, cuz it, it, we hear it constantly. It's it's in the, now that we're coming back to the office, it's in the hallways, it's out in front of conference rooms, you know, the, the elegance and, and the, and the, um, value and simplicity is everywhere inside of pure. Um, I would say it's part of our shared vision. I think it's customer centricity is at the core of what Veeam and pure, you know, has really fused us together. We're both global, you know, their history is European based and grew up out of there and then have succeeded in north America. Ours is absolutely north America based first on the west coast, then across the country. And then finally into Europe, more recently globally and, and, and a lot of growth internationally, including APJ. So it's customer centricity, it's global, it's the way we go to the customer. So a partner centric go to market motion is live and well in both organizations, uh, solution providers, MSPs, GSIs, you know, range of different ways to get to that customer. Um, and without a doubt, the customer experience is, is part of the, is part of the piece. And, and that's where our simplicity is, um, front and center. And, and I know vem is the same >>Dig, dig it into it. Go ahead. >>Yeah. Yeah, no. So, so out in the real world, are the conversations still about flash for backup and recovery convincing people that that makes sense or, or have we moved on to where now it's the pure flash value proposition BEC because people accept that flash makes sense. Where, where are we in the real world? >>Yeah, I, I think it's, it's different in different industries, different use cases, different workloads, different environments, and it's, um, part of a bigger story. But I think what, what is happening now is, um, we were before the inevitability of flash as the data center, primary storage solution, but now, like, I don't think anyone would debate that. Right. And, and I think now in data protection flash as a component to a robust, secure data protection, both as a target for backup and as a source of recovery is an inevitability to be part of that conversation. Flash is >>There, you guys like to be first at a lot of things, you know, gives you bragging rights, but it also gives you market momentum. Again, I'll pull it. My, my bag of pure memories. I remember meeting Scott Deason, who was the first CEO of, of pure, it's only been two to my knowledge, right. Scott was first Charlie G Carlo now, um, in, in, it was early days, it was 2009, like in an Oracle open world or something. And he was telling me about this startup that he's doing. And, and one of the things that struck me is the vision around the API economy, which was new at the time. It was like, well, okay, what's that? And that's really, what's, what's happened here. It's part of simplicity. It's part about ecosystem. We were talking about products versus platforms. You can't really have a platform unless you have an ecosystem. So where are we at today? How does that relate to your partnership with, with Veeam? Yeah. >>It, it's such a great recall on your part, you know, cause I think, um, we are a storage company. We do provide a raise in the wild, you know, over 10,000 customer, tens of thousands of arrays now. And you know, but at the core, it's the software that matters and, and that's really what drives the user experience. And we're proud to be, you know, the development partner on the universal storage API, the us API for Veeam, that is a essential ingredient to success for the joint pure and vem customer experience. It gives them that single pane of glass, that administrative view, where they're able to get the information they need on what's happening within their environment and be able to take corrective action. And, you know, we're very proud of all the tools that we provide our storage customers, but in a da in a data protection use case and workload, they want to put, you know, they want to go right to Veeam and, and have that be the source of truth. And that's where that API is so important. >>What, what's the story to customers, Michael, in terms of particularly cyber resilience, you've got obviously got a TCO play, simple equals lower cost. Um, you got really much tighter service level agreements and requirements now, um, the security, the storage and data protection and security space are kind of coming together. So what's the narrative for customers. Give me the pitch. Yeah, >>Look, I think, I think every customer today has an obligation to include security as a must have within their solution anywhere in the data center. And for us, it's, you know, simply put the combination of Veeam for data protection, with pure for FlashRay C or flash blade with safe mode, you know, which provides that imutability provides that customer with a safeguarded copy against bad actors externally to their organization, or was jointly developed with a customer to prevent the risk of bad actors inside of the organization. Um, city of new Orleans is one of the customer references that's up on, you know, the pure storage website, just a, a great, um, you know, story in terms of the city's ability to defend against ransomware attack, continue, you know, with continuity of essential services, police, ambulances, fire departments, um, all on the combination of pure and deem. And so, you know, a good, you know, example to pull that thread all the way through in terms of what the value proposition is. And then what's the experience for the customer when they are find themselves on the other side of that event. >>What's the nature of the partnership, um, with, with Veeam, obviously there's a go to market, um, are there, you know, solutions that you guys are doing together, engineering work that you're doing together? Can you explain that? Yeah, >>You bet. I mean, you know, these are two of, uh, I think high profile adjacencies in the data center, you've got your primary storage and then secondary tertiary, and you've got your data protection use case and workload. Um, with Veeam, we've got dedicated engineering to the Veeam partnership on the pure side, as a development partner for the us API, um, you know, is a, is a key piece we're integrated into what the support experience is like for the customer. And really trying, starting to challenge ourselves now with some of the leadership changes that beam's taken on and the opportunity to sit down and, and spend some time, you know, with the non and, and John, and really say, Hey, like we're at the core here, we've got an opportunity. Let's, let's open up some strategic doors and see what could be next. >>Well, Veeam Ising, there's no question it's kind of early Veeam was the wild west that's right. Course big parties are still, you know, the reputational, but, but as you think about these joint engineering and joint go to market and you talk to, to joint customers, where do you see sort of the future? I mean, I, I, you know, the ransomware stuff, obviously the pandemic was impossible to predict. I, I shouldn't say that a lot of people did predict it, but now that we see it, but now that you have some visibility on these permanent changes that are affecting CSO, buying strategies, data protection, storage, buying strategies, how do you see the future of this relationship? >>Yeah, look, I think, I think the, um, at the core we do what we do and we're focused on continuing to innovate and do it with excellence in everything that we do. Um, we measure ourselves rigorously against a net promoter score. It's a certified net promoter score. We're at 85.2 top 1% of all B2B. So >>Head of V even >>At the core, >>Barely at the >>Core it's, it's about that customer experience and customer satisfaction. Um, and, and so that's a, maybe a, a different way of saying we trust that our partners do what they do with excellence. And in the case of Veeam, you know, partnering around the data protection, use case and workload, looking at how that's evolving into holistic data management and hybrid cloud environment. Um, we see rich opportunity for us to continue the partnerships, strengthen it, learn and listen from our customers and our partners. And, uh, and maybe challenge ourselves to, to do some things a little differently uniquely along the way I talked >>To them. Oh, good. >>Yeah, no, yeah. You, you mentioned, uh, you mentioned something at the outset that lends a lot of cred, credibility to the pure story anywhere you seek to play. Um, you mentioned that he, uh, you know, founded in 2009 product shipping in 2012. Um, I remember that Dave's not old enough to remember that period of time <laugh>, but, uh, if you remember, um, violent memory was the king, they, they were, they were the ones to be. Yep. And you guys were quietly toiling in a bit of obscurity and people were asking, well, come on, come on, come on, come on, give us something, but you didn't until you were ready. So I've seen that methodical approach in every, in every step of the way as you've transformed from being a product into solution focus and partnership focus. Um, so what does that look like? Moving forward? You, you mentioned kind of getting ahead of the game in terms of all backups and recovery, uh, volumes being on flash. What does that addressable market look like to you guys in the future? How, how are you looking at that? Yeah. Is this just the beginning of a new thing that's gonna develop over time? >>Yeah, I think, I think it's a, is a great question. It's an insightful question. It's also a great way for me to plug accelerate in, in 20, you know, 20 days or so. Um, it's a great backdrop for pure to make some announcements in terms of what's next and, and, you know, and when we're ready to make them, you know, it's a good example. Um, but, but in direct answer to your question, you know, without a doubt, you know, the adjacencies between data protection, primary storage, secondary storage, the blurring that's happening within that, you know, based on the ransomware threats, based on, you know, other environments around cloud and, and how customers have learned from cloud experiences early on and applying those learnings, not just to demanding simplicity in their solutions, but demanding the ability for, you know, kind of the storage is code and, and to have that cloud operating model across everything that they do. And so, you know, I think those are at the core, some of the things that we think about in terms of what's next and, and, uh, and to do it with partners like beam at the forefront, as well as the voice of our customer at >>The forefront. And that's why I wanted to ask you that's great setup. Thank you, David. Um, so the port works acquisition was really interesting. We're at, um, in Valencia Spain, the cube is, uh, our, our colleagues are over there. Unfortunately, John furier couldn't make the trip, the vid hit him. Uh, but one of the conversations, the topic of conversations over there is, you know, shift left with the solar winds, hack the sensitivity around the software supply chain. We certainly talked about it last week at red hat summit. I haven't heard a lot about DevOps here, but it's sort of intrinsic that, that whole shift left component, that idea of not bolting on data protection at the tail end, actually shifting left means doing it in the development cycle, not throwing it over the fence, you know, to, to the operations people. What's that conversation like subsequent to the port works acquisition, which was very interesting. A small lever can go a long way. Can you give us the update there? >>Yeah. And first and foremost, I hope John's okay. Right? >>He is. He's doing well. Good, Mr. John, >>We do. And so, you know, I think the, um, the, the future of applications is really on center stage when you put port works into the conversation mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so as companies move like no, one's gonna develop applications today without a container strategy right related to that. And that's gonna allow for the applications to move and data gravity to really play a bigger role and pure feels confident in our ability to play a big role in that. And as those applications mature up the containerized curve, they're definitely gonna have data protection, data management, other fundamental things built into it in that shift left context that we're gonna be prepared to take advantage of based on the assets. We have >>The two hardcore engineering cultures, uh, that, that have momentum, uh, pure and, and Veeam. Michael. It's great to see you again. Thanks so much for coming to the cube. >>Uh, it's always a pleasure to be with you gentlemen, and, uh, great to meet you for the first time. Good to meet you, Michael. Look forward to seeing you the next time and, and thanks again. >>All right. You bet. All right, keep it right there, everybody. Thanks for watching. This is the Cube's coverage of vem on 2022. We're at the area in Las Vegas, and we'll be right back right after the short break.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data driven insights from theCUBE in ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> The introduction in socialization of data mesh has caused practitioners, business technology executives, and technologists to pause, and ask some probing questions about the organization of their data teams, their data strategies, future investments, and their current architectural approaches. Some in the technology community have embraced the concept, others have twisted the definition, while still others remain oblivious to the momentum building around data mesh. Here we are in the early days of data mesh adoption. Organizations that have taken the plunge will tell you that aligning stakeholders is a non-trivial effort, but necessary to break through the limitations that monolithic data architectures and highly specialized teams have imposed over frustrated business and domain leaders. However, practical data mesh examples often lie in the eyes of the implementer, and may not strictly adhere to the principles of data mesh. Now, part of the problem is lack of open technologies and standards that can accelerate adoption and reduce friction, and that's what we're going to talk about today. Some of the key technology and architecture questions around data mesh. Hello, and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR, and in this Breaking Analysis, we welcome back the founder of data mesh and director of Emerging Technologies at Thoughtworks, Zhamak Dehghani. Hello, Zhamak. Thanks for being here today. >> Hi Dave, thank you for having me back. It's always a delight to connect and have a conversation. Thank you. >> Great, looking forward to it. Okay, so before we get into it in the technology details, I just want to quickly share some data from our friends at ETR. You know, despite the importance of data initiative since the pandemic, CIOs and IT organizations have had to juggle of course, a few other priorities, this is why in the survey data, cyber and cloud computing are rated as two most important priorities. Analytics and machine learning, and AI, which are kind of data topics, still make the top of the list, well ahead of many other categories. And look, a sound data architecture and strategy is fundamental to digital transformations, and much of the past two years, as we've often said, has been like a forced march into digital. So while organizations are moving forward, they really have to think hard about the data architecture decisions that they make, because it's going to impact them, Zhamak, for years to come, isn't it? >> Yes, absolutely. I mean, we are moving really from, slowly moving from reason based logical algorithmic to model based computation and decision making, where we exploit the patterns and signals within the data. So data becomes a very important ingredient, of not only decision making, and analytics and discovering trends, but also the features and applications that we build for the future. So we can't really ignore it, and as we see, some of the existing challenges around getting value from data is not necessarily that no longer is access to computation, is actually access to trustworthy, reliable data at scale. >> Yeah, and you see these domains coming together with the cloud and obviously it has to be secure and trusted, and that's why we're here today talking about data mesh. So let's get into it. Zhamak, first, your new book is out, 'Data Mesh: Delivering Data-Driven Value at Scale' just recently published, so congratulations on getting that done, awesome. Now in a recent presentation, you pulled excerpts from the book and we're going to talk through some of the technology and architectural considerations. Just quickly for the audience, four principles of data mesh. Domain driven ownership, data as product, self-served data platform and federated computational governance. So I want to start with self-serve platform and some of the data that you shared recently. You say that, "Data mesh serves autonomous domain oriented teams versus existing platforms, which serve a centralized team." Can you elaborate? >> Sure. I mean the role of the platform is to lower the cognitive load for domain teams, for people who are focusing on the business outcomes, the technologies that are building the applications, to really lower the cognitive load for them, to be able to work with data. Whether they are building analytics, automated decision making, intelligent modeling. They need to be able to get access to data and use it. So the role of the platform, I guess, just stepping back for a moment is to empower and enable these teams. Data mesh by definition is a scale out model. It's a decentralized model that wants to give autonomy to cross-functional teams. So it is core requires a set of tools that work really well in that decentralized model. When we look at the existing platforms, they try to achieve this similar outcome, right? Lower the cognitive load, give the tools to data practitioners, to manage data at scale because today centralized teams, really their job, the centralized data teams, their job isn't really directly aligned with a one or two or different, you know, business units and business outcomes in terms of getting value from data. Their job is manage the data and make the data available for then those cross-functional teams or business units to use the data. So the platforms they've been given are really centralized around or tuned to work with this structure as a team, structure of centralized team. Although on the surface, it seems that why not? Why can't I use my, you know, cloud storage or computation or data warehouse in a decentralized way? You should be able to, but some changes need to happen to those online platforms. As an example, some cloud providers simply have hard limits on the number of like account storage, storage accounts that you can have. Because they never envisaged you have hundreds of lakes. They envisage one or two, maybe 10 lakes, right. They envisage really centralizing data, not decentralizing data. So I think we see a shift in thinking about enabling autonomous independent teams versus a centralized team. >> So just a follow up if I may, we could be here for a while. But so this assumes that you've sorted out the organizational considerations? That you've defined all the, what a data product is and a sub product. And people will say, of course we use the term monolithic as a pejorative, let's face it. But the data warehouse crowd will say, "Well, that's what data march did. So we got that covered." But Europe... The primest of data mesh, if I understand it is whether it's a data march or a data mart or a data warehouse, or a data lake or whatever, a snowflake warehouse, it's a node on the mesh. Okay. So don't build your organization around the technology, let the technology serve the organization is that-- >> That's a perfect way of putting it, exactly. I mean, for a very long time, when we look at decomposition of complexity, we've looked at decomposition of complexity around technology, right? So we have technology and that's maybe a good segue to actually the next item on that list that we looked at. Oh, I need to decompose based on whether I want to have access to raw data and put it on the lake. Whether I want to have access to model data and put it on the warehouse. You know I need to have a team in the middle to move the data around. And then try to figure organization into that model. So data mesh really inverses that, and as you said, is look at the organizational structure first. Then scale boundaries around which your organization and operation can scale. And then the second layer look at the technology and how you decompose it. >> Okay. So let's go to that next point and talk about how you serve and manage autonomous interoperable data products. Where code, data policy you say is treated as one unit. Whereas your contention is existing platforms of course have independent management and dashboards for catalogs or storage, et cetera. Maybe we double click on that a bit. >> Yeah. So if you think about that functional, or technical decomposition, right? Of concerns, that's one way, that's a very valid way of decomposing, complexity and concerns. And then build solutions, independent solutions to address them. That's what we see in the technology landscape today. We will see technologies that are taking care of your management of data, bring your data under some sort of a control and modeling. You'll see technology that moves that data around, will perform various transformations and computations on it. And then you see technology that tries to overlay some level of meaning. Metadata, understandability, discovery was the end policy, right? So that's where your data processing kind of pipeline technologies versus data warehouse, storage, lake technologies, and then the governance come to play. And over time, we decomposed and we compose, right? Deconstruct and reconstruct back this together. But, right now that's where we stand. I think for data mesh really to become a reality, as in independent sources of data and teams can responsibly share data in a way that can be understood right then and there can impose policies, right then when the data gets accessed in that source and in a resilient manner, like in a way that data changes structure of the data or changes to the scheme of the data, doesn't have those downstream down times. We've got to think about this new nucleus or new units of data sharing. And we need to really bring back transformation and governing data and the data itself together around these decentralized nodes on the mesh. So that's another, I guess, deconstruction and reconstruction that needs to happen around the technology to formulate ourselves around the domains. And again the data and the logic of the data itself, the meaning of the data itself. >> Great. Got it. And we're going to talk more about the importance of data sharing and the implications. But the third point deals with how operational, analytical technologies are constructed. You've got an app DevStack, you've got a data stack. You've made the point many times actually that we've contextualized our operational systems, but not our data systems, they remain separate. Maybe you could elaborate on this point. >> Yes. I think this is, again, has a historical background and beginning. For a really long time, applications have dealt with features and the logic of running the business and encapsulating the data and the state that they need to run that feature or run that business function. And then we had for anything analytical driven, which required access data across these applications and across the longer dimension of time around different subjects within the organization. This analytical data, we had made a decision that, "Okay, let's leave those applications aside. Let's leave those databases aside. We'll extract the data out and we'll load it, or we'll transform it and put it under the analytical kind of a data stack and then downstream from it, we will have analytical data users, the data analysts, the data sciences and the, you know, the portfolio of users that are growing use that data stack. And that led to this really separation of dual stack with point to point integration. So applications went down the path of transactional databases or urban document store, but using APIs for communicating and then we've gone to, you know, lake storage or data warehouse on the other side. If we are moving and that again, enforces the silo of data versus app, right? So if we are moving to the world that our missions that are ambitions around making applications, more intelligent. Making them data driven. These two worlds need to come closer. As in ML Analytics gets embedded into those app applications themselves. And the data sharing, as a very essential ingredient of that, gets embedded and gets closer, becomes closer to those applications. So, if you are looking at this now cross-functional, app data, based team, right? Business team, then the technology stacks can't be so segregated, right? There has to be a continuum of experience from app delivery, to sharing of the data, to using that data, to embed models back into those applications. And that continuum of experience requires well integrated technologies. I'll give you an example, which actually in some sense, we are somewhat moving to that direction. But if we are talking about data sharing or data modeling and applications use one set of APIs, you know, HTTP compliant, GraQL or RAC APIs. And on the other hand, you have proprietary SQL, like connect to my database and run SQL. Like those are very two different models of representing and accessing data. So we kind of have to harmonize or integrate those two worlds a bit more closely to achieve that domain oriented cross-functional teams. >> Yeah. We are going to talk about some of the gaps later and actually you look at them as opportunities, more than barriers. But they are barriers, but they're opportunities for more innovation. Let's go on to the fourth one. The next point, it deals with the roles that the platform serves. Data mesh proposes that domain experts own the data and take responsibility for it end to end and are served by the technology. Kind of, we referenced that before. Whereas your contention is that today, data systems are really designed for specialists. I think you use the term hyper specialists a lot. I love that term. And the generalist are kind of passive bystanders waiting in line for the technical teams to serve them. >> Yes. I mean, if you think about the, again, the intention behind data mesh was creating a responsible data sharing model that scales out. And I challenge any organization that has a scaled ambitions around data or usage of data that relies on small pockets of very expensive specialists resources, right? So we have no choice, but upscaling cross-scaling. The majority population of our technologists, we often call them generalists, right? That's a short hand for people that can really move from one technology to another technology. Sometimes we call them pandric people sometimes we call them T-shaped people. But regardless, like we need to have ability to really mobilize our generalists. And we had to do that at Thoughtworks. We serve a lot of our clients and like many other organizations, we are also challenged with hiring specialists. So we have tested the model of having a few specialists, really conveying and translating the knowledge to generalists and bring them forward. And of course, platform is a big enabler of that. Like what is the language of using the technology? What are the APIs that delight that generalist experience? This doesn't mean no code, low code. We have to throw away in to good engineering practices. And I think good software engineering practices remain to exist. Of course, they get adopted to the world of data to build resilient you know, sustainable solutions, but specialty, especially around kind of proprietary technology is going to be a hard one to scale. >> Okay. I'm definitely going to come back and pick your brain on that one. And, you know, your point about scale out in the examples, the practical examples of companies that have implemented data mesh that I've talked to. I think in all cases, you know, there's only a handful that I've really gone deep with, but it was their hadoop instances, their clusters wouldn't scale, they couldn't scale the business and around it. So that's really a key point of a common pattern that we've seen now. I think in all cases, they went to like the data lake model and AWS. And so that maybe has some violation of the principles, but we'll come back to that. But so let me go on to the next one. Of course, data mesh leans heavily, toward this concept of decentralization, to support domain ownership over the centralized approaches. And we certainly see this, the public cloud players, database companies as key actors here with very large install bases, pushing a centralized approach. So I guess my question is, how realistic is this next point where you have decentralized technologies ruling the roost? >> I think if you look at the history of places, in our industry where decentralization has succeeded, they heavily relied on standardization of connectivity with, you know, across different components of technology. And I think right now you are right. The way we get value from data relies on collection. At the end of the day, collection of data. Whether you have a deep learning machinery model that you're training, or you have, you know, reports to generate. Regardless, the model is bring your data to a place that you can collect it, so that we can use it. And that leads to a naturally set of technologies that try to operate as a full stack integrated proprietary with no intention of, you know, opening, data for sharing. Now, conversely, if you think about internet itself, web itself, microservices, even at the enterprise level, not at the planetary level, they succeeded as decentralized technologies to a large degree because of their emphasis on open net and openness and sharing, right. API sharing. We don't talk about, in the API worlds, like we don't say, you know, "I will build a platform to manage your logical applications." Maybe to a degree but we actually moved away from that. We say, "I'll build a platform that opens around applications to manage your APIs, manage your interfaces." Right? Give you access to API. So I think the shift needs to... That definition of decentralized there means really composable, open pieces of the technology that can play nicely with each other, rather than a full stack, all have control of your data yet being somewhat decentralized within the boundary of my platform. That's just simply not going to scale if data needs to come from different platforms, different locations, different geographical locations, it needs to rethink. >> Okay, thank you. And then the final point is, is data mesh favors technologies that are domain agnostic versus those that are domain aware. And I wonder if you could help me square the circle cause it's nuanced and I'm kind of a 100 level student of your work. But you have said for example, that the data teams lack context of the domain and so help us understand what you mean here in this case. >> Sure. Absolutely. So as you said, we want to take... Data mesh tries to give autonomy and decision making power and responsibility to people that have the context of those domains, right? The people that are really familiar with different business domains and naturally the data that that domain needs, or that naturally the data that domains shares. So if the intention of the platform is really to give the power to people with most relevant and timely context, the platform itself naturally becomes as a shared component, becomes domain agnostic to a large degree. Of course those domains can still... The platform is a (chuckles) fairly overloaded world. As in, if you think about it as a set of technology that abstracts complexity and allows building the next level solutions on top, those domains may have their own set of platforms that are very much doing agnostic. But as a generalized shareable set of technologies or tools that allows us share data. So that piece of technology needs to relinquish the knowledge of the context to the domain teams and actually becomes domain agnostic. >> Got it. Okay. Makes sense. All right. Let's shift gears here. Talk about some of the gaps and some of the standards that are needed. You and I have talked about this a little bit before, but this digs deeper. What types of standards are needed? Maybe you could walk us through this graphic, please. >> Sure. So what I'm trying to depict here is that if we imagine a world that data can be shared from many different locations, for a variety of analytical use cases, naturally the boundary of what we call a node on the mesh will encapsulates internally a fair few pieces. It's not just the boundary of that, not on the mesh, is the data itself that it's controlling and updating and maintaining. It's of course a computation and the code that's responsible for that data. And then the policies that continue to govern that data as long as that data exists. So if that's the boundary, then if we shift that focus from implementation details, that we can leave that for later, what becomes really important is the scene or the APIs and interfaces that this node exposes. And I think that's where the work that needs to be done and the standards that are missing. And we want the scene and those interfaces be open because that allows, you know, different organizations with different boundaries of trust to share data. Not only to share data to kind of move that data to yes, another location, to share the data in a way that distributed workloads, distributed analytics, distributed machine learning model can happen on the data where it is. So if you follow that line of thinking around the centralization and connection of data versus collection of data, I think the very, very important piece of it that needs really deep thinking, and I don't claim that I have done that, is how do we share data responsibly and sustainably, right? That is not brittle. If you think about it today, the ways we share data, one of the very common ways is around, I'll give you a JDC endpoint, or I give you an endpoint to your, you know, database of choice. And now as technology, whereas a user actually, you can now have access to the schema of the underlying data and then run various queries or SQL queries on it. That's very simple and easy to get started with. That's why SQL is an evergreen, you know, standard or semi standard, pseudo standard that we all use. But it's also very brittle, because we are dependent on a underlying schema and formatting of the data that's been designed to tell the computer how to store and manage the data. So I think that the data sharing APIs of the future really need to think about removing this brittle dependencies, think about sharing, not only the data, but what we call metadata, I suppose. Additional set of characteristics that is always shared along with data to make the data usage, I suppose ethical and also friendly for the users and also, I think we have to... That data sharing API, the other element of it, is to allow kind of computation to run where the data exists. So if you think about SQL again, as a simple primitive example of computation, when we select and when we filter and when we join, the computation is happening on that data. So maybe there is a next level of articulating, distributed computational data that simply trains models, right? Your language primitives change in a way to allow sophisticated analytical workloads run on the data more responsibly with policies and access control and force. So I think that output port that I mentioned simply is about next generation data sharing, responsible data sharing APIs. Suitable for decentralized analytical workloads. >> So I'm not trying to bait you here, but I have a follow up as well. So you schema, for all its good creates constraints. No schema on right, that didn't work, cause it was just a free for all and it created the data swamps. But now you have technology companies trying to solve that problem. Take Snowflake for example, you know, enabling, data sharing. But it is within its proprietary environment. Certainly Databricks doing something, you know, trying to come at it from its angle, bringing some of the best to data warehouse, with the data science. Is your contention that those remain sort of proprietary and defacto standards? And then what we need is more open standards? Maybe you could comment. >> Sure. I think the two points one is, as you mentioned. Open standards that allow... Actually make the underlying platform invisible. I mean my litmus test for a technology provider to say, "I'm a data mesh," (laughs) kind of compliant is, "Is your platform invisible?" As in, can I replace it with another and yet get the similar data sharing experience that I need? So part of it is that. Part of it is open standards, they're not really proprietary. The other angle for kind of sharing data across different platforms so that you know, we don't get stuck with one technology or another is around APIs. It is around code that is protecting that internal schema. So where we are on the curve of evolution of technology, right now we are exposing the internal structure of the data. That is designed to optimize certain modes of access. We're exposing that to the end client and application APIs, right? So the APIs that use the data today are very much aware that this database was optimized for machine learning workloads. Hence you will deal with a columnar storage of the file versus this other API is optimized for a very different, report type access, relational access and is optimized around roles. I think that should become irrelevant in the API sharing of the future. Because as a user, I shouldn't care how this data is internally optimized, right? The language primitive that I'm using should be really agnostic to the machine optimization underneath that. And if we did that, perhaps this war between warehouse or lake or the other will become actually irrelevant. So we're optimizing for that human best human experience, as opposed to the best machine experience. We still have to do that but we have to make that invisible. Make that an implementation concern. So that's another angle of what should... If we daydream together, the best experience and resilient experience in terms of data usage than these APIs with diagnostics to the internal storage structure. >> Great, thank you for that. We've wrapped our ankles now on the controversy, so we might as well wade all the way in, I can't let you go without addressing some of this. Which you've catalyzed, which I, by the way, I see as a sign of progress. So this gentleman, Paul Andrew is an architect and he gave a presentation I think last night. And he teased it as quote, "The theory from Zhamak Dehghani versus the practical experience of a technical architect, AKA me," meaning him. And Zhamak, you were quick to shoot back that data mesh is not theory, it's based on practice. And some practices are experimental. Some are more baked and data mesh really avoids by design, the specificity of vendor or technology. Perhaps you intend to frame your post as a technology or vendor specific, specific implementation. So touche, that was excellent. (Zhamak laughs) Now you don't need me to defend you, but I will anyway. You spent 14 plus years as a software engineer and the better part of a decade consulting with some of the most technically advanced companies in the world. But I'm going to push you a little bit here and say, some of this tension is of your own making because you purposefully don't talk about technologies and vendors. Sometimes doing so it's instructive for us neophytes. So, why don't you ever like use specific examples of technology for frames of reference? >> Yes. My role is pushes to the next level. So, you know everybody picks their fights, pick their battles. My role in this battle is to push us to think beyond what's available today. Of course, that's my public persona. On a day to day basis, actually I work with clients and existing technology and I think at Thoughtworks we have given the talk we gave a case study talk with a colleague of mine and I intentionally got him to talk about (indistinct) I want to talk about the technology that we use to implement data mesh. And the reason I haven't really embraced, in my conversations, the specific technology. One is, I feel the technology solutions we're using today are still not ready for the vision. I mean, we have to be in this transitional step, no matter what we have to be pragmatic, of course, and practical, I suppose. And use the existing vendors that exist and I wholeheartedly embrace that, but that's just not my role, to show that. I've gone through this transformation once before in my life. When microservices happened, we were building microservices like architectures with technology that wasn't ready for it. Big application, web application servers that were designed to run these giant monolithic applications. And now we're trying to run little microservices onto them. And the tail was riding the dock, the environmental complexity of running these services was consuming so much of our effort that we couldn't really pay attention to that business logic, the business value. And that's where we are today. The complexity of integrating existing technologies is really overwhelmingly, capturing a lot of our attention and cost and effort, money and effort as opposed to really focusing on the data product themselves. So it's just that's the role I have, but it doesn't mean that, you know, we have to rebuild the world. We've got to do with what we have in this transitional phase until the new generation, I guess, technologies come around and reshape our landscape of tools. >> Well, impressive public discipline. Your point about microservice is interesting because a lot of those early microservices, weren't so micro and for the naysayers look past this, not prologue, but Thoughtworks was really early on in the whole concept of microservices. So be very excited to see how this plays out. But now there was some other good comments. There was one from a gentleman who said the most interesting aspects of data mesh are organizational. And that's how my colleague Sanji Mohan frames data mesh versus data fabric. You know, I'm not sure, I think we've sort of scratched the surface today that data today, data mesh is more. And I still think data fabric is what NetApp defined as software defined storage infrastructure that can serve on-prem and public cloud workloads back whatever, 2016. But the point you make in the thread that we're showing you here is that you're warning, and you referenced this earlier, that the segregating different modes of access will lead to fragmentation. And we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the past. >> Yes, there are comments around. Again going back to that original conversation that we have got this at a macro level. We've got this tendency to decompose complexity based on technical solutions. And, you know, the conversation could be, "Oh, I do batch or you do a stream and we are different."' They create these bifurcations in our decisions based on the technology where I do events and you do tables, right? So that sort of segregation of modes of access causes accidental complexity that we keep dealing with. Because every time in this tree, you create a new branch, you create new kind of new set of tools and then somehow need to be point to point integrated. You create new specialization around that. So the least number of branches that we have, and think about really about the continuum of experiences that we need to create and technologies that simplify, that continuum experience. So one of the things, for example, give you a past experience. I was really excited around the papers and the work that came around on Apache Beam, and generally flow based programming and stream processing. Because basically they were saying whether you are doing batch or whether you're doing streaming, it's all one stream. And sometimes the window of time, narrows and sometimes the window of time over which you're computing, widens and at the end of today, is you are just getting... Doing the stream processing. So it is those sort of notions that simplify and create continuum of experience. I think resonate with me personally, more than creating these tribal fights of this type versus that mode of access. So that's why data mesh naturally selects kind of this multimodal access to support end users, right? The persona of end users. >> Okay. So the last topic I want to hit, this whole discussion, the topic of data mesh it's highly nuanced, it's new, and people are going to shoehorn data mesh into their respective views of the world. And we talked about lake houses and there's three buckets. And of course, the gentleman from LinkedIn with Azure, Microsoft has a data mesh community. See you're going to have to enlist some serious army of enforcers to adjudicate. And I wrote some of the stuff down. I mean, it's interesting. Monte Carlo has a data mesh calculator. Starburst is leaning in, chaos. Search sees themselves as an enabler. Oracle and Snowflake both use the term data mesh. And then of course you've got big practitioners J-P-M-C, we've talked to Intuit, Orlando, HelloFresh has been on, Netflix has this event based sort of streaming implementation. So my question is, how realistic is it that the clarity of your vision can be implemented and not polluted by really rich technology companies and others? (Zhamak laughs) >> Is it even possible, right? Is it even possible? That's a yes. That's why I practice then. This is why I should practice things. Cause I think, it's going to be hard. What I'm hopeful, is that the socio-technical, Leveling Data mentioned that this is a socio-technical concern or solution, not just a technology solution. Hopefully always brings us back to, you know, the reality that vendors try to sell you safe oil that solves all of your problems. (chuckles) All of your data mesh problems. It's just going to cause more problem down the track. So we'll see, time will tell Dave and I count on you as one of those members of, (laughs) you know, folks that will continue to share their platform. To go back to the roots, as why in the first place? I mean, I dedicated a whole part of the book to 'Why?' Because we get, as you said, we get carried away with vendors and technology solution try to ride a wave. And in that story, we forget the reason for which we even making this change and we are going to spend all of this resources. So hopefully we can always come back to that. >> Yeah. And I think we can. I think you have really given this some deep thought and as we pointed out, this was based on practical knowledge and experience. And look, we've been trying to solve this data problem for a long, long time. You've not only articulated it well, but you've come up with solutions. So Zhamak, thank you so much. We're going to leave it there and I'd love to have you back. >> Thank you for the conversation. I really enjoyed it. And thank you for sharing your platform to talk about data mesh. >> Yeah, you bet. All right. And I want to thank my colleague, Stephanie Chan, who helps research topics for us. Alex Myerson is on production and Kristen Martin, Cheryl Knight and Rob Hoff on editorial. Remember all these episodes are available as podcasts, wherever you listen. And all you got to do is search Breaking Analysis Podcast. Check out ETR's website at etr.ai for all the data. And we publish a full report every week on wikibon.com, siliconangle.com. You can reach me by email david.vellante@siliconangle.com or DM me @dvellante. Hit us up on our LinkedIn post. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (bright music)

>>Hi, this is Cindy Mikey, vice president of industry solutions at caldera. Joining me today is chef is Molly, our solution engineer for the public sector. Today. We're going to talk about speed to insight. Why using machine learning in the public sector, specifically around fraud, waste and abuse. So topic for today, we'll discuss machine learning, why the public sector uses it to target fraud, waste, and abuse, the challenges. How do we enhance your data and analytical approaches the data landscape analytical methods and shad we'll go over reference architecture and a case study. So by definition at fraud waste and abuse per the government accountability office is broad as an attempt to obtain something about a value through unwelcomed misrepresentation waste is about squandering money or resources and abuse is about behaving improperly or unreasonably to actually obtain something of value for your personal, uh, benefit. So as we look at fraud, um, and across all industries, it's a top of mind, um, area within the public sector. >>Um, the types of fraud that we see is specifically around cyber crime, uh, looking at accounting fraud, whether it be from an individual perspective to also, uh, within organizations, looking at financial statement fraud, to also looking at bribery and corruption, as we look at fraud, it really hits us from all angles, whether it be from external perpetrators or internal perpetrators, and specifically for the research by PWC, the key focus area is we also see over half of fraud is actually through some form of internal or external perpetrators, again, key topics. So as we also look at a report recently by the association of certified fraud examiners, um, within the public sector, the us government, um, in 2017, it was identified roughly $148 billion was attributable to fraud, waste and abuse. Specifically of that 57 billion was focused on reported monetary losses and another 91 billion on areas where that opportunity or the monetary basis had not yet been measured. >>As we look at breaking those areas down again, we look at several different topics from an out payment perspective. So breaking it down within the health system, over $65 billion within social services, over $51 billion to procurement fraud to also, uh, uh, fraud, waste and abuse that's happening in the grants and the loan process to payroll fraud, and then other aspects, again, quite a few different topical areas. So as we look at those areas, what are the areas that we see additional type of focus, those are broad stroke areas. What are the actual use cases that, um, agencies are using the data landscape? What data, what analytical methods can we use to actually help curtail and prevent some of the, uh, the fraud waste and abuse. So, as we look at some of the analytical processes and analytical use great, uh, use cases in the public sector, whether it's from, uh, you know, the taxation areas to looking at, you know, social services, uh, to public safety, to also the, um, our, um, additional agency methods, we're going to focus specifically on some of the use cases around, um, you know, fraud within the tax area. >>Uh, we'll briefly look at some of the aspects of unemployment insurance fraud, uh, benefit fraud, as well as payment integrity. So fraud has its, um, uh, underpinnings in quite a few different government agencies and difficult, different analytical methods and I usage of different data. So I think one of the key elements is, you know, you can look at your, your data landscape on specific data sources that you need, but it's really about bringing together different data sources across a different variety, a different velocity. So, uh, data has different dimensions. So we'll look at on structured types of data of semi-structured data, behavioral data, as well as when we look at, um, you know, predictive models, we're typically looking at historical type information, but if we're actually trying to look at preventing fraud before it actually happens, or when a case may be in flight, which is specifically a use case that Chev is going to talk about later it's how do I look at more, that real, that streaming information? >>How do I take advantage of data, whether it be, uh, you know, uh, financial transactions we're looking at, um, asset verification, we're looking at tax records, we're looking at corporate filings. Um, and we can also look at more, uh, advanced data sources where as we're looking at, um, investigation type information. So we're maybe going out and we're looking at, uh, deep learning type models around, uh, you know, semi or that, uh, behavioral that's unstructured data, whether it be camera analysis and so forth. So for quite a different variety of data and the breadth and the opportunity really comes about when you can integrate and look at data across all different data sources. So in essence, looking at a more extensive, uh, data landscape. So specifically I want to focus on some of the methods, some of the data sources and some of the analytical techniques that we're seeing, uh, being used, um, in the government agencies, as well as opportunities to look at new methods. >>So as we're looking at, you know, from a, um, an audit planning or looking at, uh, the opportunity for the likelihood of non-compliance, um, specifically we'll see data sources where we're maybe looking at a constituents profile, we might actually be investigating the forms that they provided. We might be comparing that data, um, or leveraging internal data sources, possibly looking at net worth, comparing it against other financial data, and also comparison across other constituents groups. Some of the techniques that we use are some of the basic natural language processing, maybe we're going to do some text mining. We might be doing some probabilistic modeling, uh, where we're actually looking at, um, information within the agency to also comparing that against possibly tax forms. A lot of times it's information historically has been done on a batch perspective, both structured and semi-structured type information. And typically the data volumes can be low, but we're also seeing those data volumes on increase exponentially based upon the types of events that we're dealing with, the number of transactions. >>Um, so getting the throughput, um, and chef's going to specifically talk about that in a moment. The other aspect is, as we look at other areas of opportunity is when we're building upon, how do I actually do compliance? How do I actually look at conducting audits or potential fraud to also looking at areas of under-reported tax information? So there you might be pulling in, um, some of our other types of data sources, whether it's being property records, it could be data that's being supplied by the actual constituents or by vendors to also pulling in social media information to geographical information, to leveraging photos on techniques that we're seeing used is possibly some sentiment analysis, link analysis. Um, how do we actually blend those data sources together from a natural language processing? But I think what's important here is also the method and the looking at the data velocity, whether it be batch, whether it be near real time, again, looking at all types of data, whether it's structured semi-structured or unstructured and the key and the value behind this is, um, how do we actually look at increasing the potential revenue or the, uh, under reported revenue? >>Uh, how do we actually look at stopping fraudulent payments before they actually occur? Um, also looking at increasing the amount of, uh, the level of compliance, um, and also looking at the potential of prosecution of fraud cases. And additionally, other areas of opportunity could be looking at, um, economic planning. How do we actually perform some link analysis? How do we bring some more of those things that we saw in the data landscape on customer, or, you know, constituent interaction, bringing in social media, bringing in, uh, potentially police records, property records, um, other tax department, database information. Um, and then also looking at comparing one individual to other individuals, looking at people like a specific constituent, are there areas where we're seeing, uh, um, other aspects of a fraud potentially being occurring. Um, and also as we move forward, some of the more advanced techniques that we're seeing around deep learning is looking at computer vision, um, leveraging geospatial information, looking at social network entity analysis, uh, also looking at, um, agent-based modeling techniques, where we're looking at, uh, simulation Monte Carlo type techniques that we typically see in the financial services industry, actually applying that to fraud, waste, and abuse within the, uh, the public sector. >>Um, and again, that really lends itself to a new opportunities. And on that, I'm going to turn it over to Shev to talk about, uh, the reference architecture for, uh, doing these baskets. >>Thanks, Cindy. Um, so I'm going to walk you through an example, reference architecture for fraud detection using, uh, Cloudera underlying technology. Um, and you know, before I get into the technical details, uh, I want to talk about how this would be implemented at a much higher level. So with fraud detection, what we're trying to do is identify anomalies or novelists behavior within our data sets. Um, now in order to understand what aspects of our incoming data represents anomalous behavior, we first need to understand what normal behavior is. So in essence, once we understand normal behavior, anything that deviates from it can be thought of as an anomaly, right? So in order to understand what normal behavior is, we're going to need to be able to collect store and process a very large amount of historical data. And so then comes clutter's platform and this reference architecture that needs to before you, so, uh, let's start on the left-hand side of this reference architecture with the collect phase. >>So fraud detection will always begin with data collection. Uh, we need to collect large amounts of information from systems that could be in the cloud. It could be in the data center or even on edge devices, and this data needs to be collected so we can create our normal behavior profiles. And these normal behavioral profiles would then in turn, be used to create our predictive models for fraudulent activity. Now, uh, uh, to the data collection side, one of the main challenges that many organizations face, uh, in this phase, uh, involves using a single technology that can handle, uh, data that's coming in all different types of formats and protocols and standards with different porosities and velocities. Um, let me give you an example. Uh, we could be collecting data from a database that gets updated daily, uh, and maybe that data is being collected in Agra format. >>At the same time, we can be collecting data from an edge device that's streaming in every second, and that data may be coming in Jason or a binary format, right? So this is a data collection challenge that can be solved with clutter data flow, which is a suite of technologies built on Apache NIFA and mini five, allowing us to ingest all of this data, do a drag and drop interface. So now we're collecting all of this data, that's required to map out normal behavior. The next thing that we need to do is enrich it, transform it and distribute it to, uh, you know, downstream systems for further process. Uh, so let's, let's walk through how that would work first. Let's taking Richmond for, uh, for enrichment, think of adding additional information to your incoming data, right? Let's take, uh, financial transactions, for example, uh, because Cindy mentioned it earlier, right? >>You can store known locations of an individual in an operational database, uh, with Cloudera that would be HBase. And as an individual makes a new transaction, their geo location that's in that transaction data, it can be enriched with previously known locations of that very same individual and all of that enriched data. It can be later used downstream for predictive analysis, predictable. So the data has been enrich. Uh, now it needs to be transformed. We want the data that's coming in, uh, you know, Avro and Jason and binary and whatever other format to be transformed into a single common format. So it can be used downstream for stream processing. Uh, again, this is going to be done through clutter and data flow, which is backed by NIFA, right? So the transformed semantic data is then going to be stimulated to Kafka and coffin. It's going to serve as that central repository of syndicated services or a buffer zone, right? >>So cough is, you know, pretty much provides you with, uh, extremely fast resilient and fault tolerance storage. And it's also going to give you the consumer APIs that you need that are going to enable a wide variety of applications to leverage that enriched and transformed data within your buffer zone. Uh, I'll add that, you know, 17, so you can store that data, uh, in a distributed file system, give you that historical context that you're going to need later on for machine learning, right? So the next step in the architecture is to leverage a cluttered SQL string builder, which enables us to write, uh, streaming sequel jobs on top of Apache Flink. So we can, uh, filter, analyze and, uh, understand the data that's in the Kafka buffer zone in real time. Uh I'll you know, I'll also add like, you know, if you have time series data, or if you need a lab type of cubing, you can leverage kudu, uh, while EDA or exploratory data analysis and visualization, uh, can all be enabled through clever visual patient technology. >>All right, so we've filtered, we've analyzed and we've explored our incoming data. We can now proceed to train our machine learning models, uh, which will detect anomalous behavior in our historically collected data set, uh, to do this, we can use a combination of supervised unsupervised, uh, even deep learning techniques with neural networks and these models can be tested on new incoming streaming data. And once we've gone ahead and obtain the accuracy of the performance, the scores that we want, we can then take these models and deploy them into production. And once the models are productionalized or operationalized, they can be leveraged within our streaming pipeline. So as new data is ingested in real-time knife, I can query these models to detect if the activity is anomalous or fraudulent. And if it is, they can alert downstream users and systems, right? So this in essence is how fraudulent activity detection works. >>Uh, and this entire pipeline is powered by clutter's technology, right? And so, uh, the IRS is one of, uh, clutters customers. That's leveraging our platform today and implementing, uh, a very similar architecture, uh, to detect fraud, waste, and abuse across a very large set of, uh, historical facts, data. Um, and one of the neat things with the IRS is that they've actually, uh, recently leveraged the partnership between Cloudera and Nvidia to accelerate their Spark-based analytics and their machine learning. Uh, and the results have been nothing short of amazing, right? And in fact, we have a quote here from Joe and salty who's, uh, you know, the technical branch chief for the research analytics and statistics division group within the IRS with zero changes to our fraud detection workflow, we're able to obtain eight times to performance simply by adding GPS to our mainstream big data servers. This improvement translates to half the cost of ownership for the same workloads, right? So embedding GPU's into the reference architecture I covered earlier has enabled the IRS to improve their time to insights by as much as eight X while simultaneously reducing their underlying infrastructure costs by half, uh, Cindy back to you >>Chef. Thank you. Um, and I hope that you found, uh, some of the, the analysis, the information that Sheva and I have provided, um, to give you some insights on how cloud era is actually helping, uh, with the fraud waste and abuse challenges within the, uh, the public sector, um, specifically looking at any and all types of data, how the clutter a platform is bringing together and analyzing information, whether it be you're structured you're semi-structured to unstructured data, both in a fast or in a real time perspective, looking at anomalies, being able to do some of those on detection methods, uh, looking at neural network analysis, time series information. So next steps we'd love to have an additional conversation with you. You can also find on some additional information around, uh, how quad areas working in the federal government by going to cloudera.com solutions slash public sector. And we welcome scheduling a meeting with you again, thank you for joining Chevy and I today, we greatly appreciate your time and look forward to future >>Conversation..

>>Hi, this is Cindy Mikey, vice president of industry solutions at caldera. Joining me today is chef is Molly, our solution engineer for the public sector. Today. We're going to talk about speed to insight. Why using machine learning in the public sector, specifically around fraud, waste and abuse. So topic for today, we'll discuss machine learning, why the public sector uses it to target fraud, waste, and abuse, the challenges. How do we enhance your data and analytical approaches the data landscape analytical methods and shad we'll go over reference architecture and a case study. So by definition, fraud, waste and abuse per the government accountability office is fraud. Isn't an attempt to obtain something about value through unwelcome misrepresentation waste is about squandering money or resources and abuse is about behaving improperly or unreasonably to actually obtain something of value for your personal benefit. So as we look at fraud, um, and across all industries, it's a top of mind, um, area within the public sector. >>Um, the types of fraud that we see is specifically around cyber crime, uh, looking at accounting fraud, whether it be from an individual perspective to also, uh, within organizations, looking at financial statement fraud, to also looking at bribery and corruption, as we look at fraud, it really hits us from all angles, whether it be from external perpetrators or internal perpetrators, and specifically from the research by PWC, the key focus area is we also see over half of fraud is actually through some form of internal or external, uh, perpetrators again, key topics. So as we also look at a report recently by the association of certified fraud examiners, um, within the public sector, the us government, um, in 2017, it was identified roughly $148 billion was attributable to fraud, waste and abuse. Specifically about 57 billion was focused on reported monetary losses and another 91 billion on areas where that opportunity or the monetary basis had not yet been measured. >>As we look at breaking those areas down again, we look at several different topics from permit out payment perspective. So breaking it down within the health system, over $65 billion within social services, over $51 billion to procurement fraud to also, um, uh, fraud, waste and abuse that's happening in the grants and the loan process to payroll fraud, and then other aspects, again, quite a few different topical areas. So as we look at those areas, what are the areas that we see additional type of focus, there's a broad stroke areas. What are the actual use cases that our agencies are using the data landscape? What data, what analytical methods can we use to actually help curtail and prevent some of the, uh, the fraud waste and abuse. So, as we look at some of the analytical processes and analytical use crate, uh, use cases in the public sector, whether it's from, uh, you know, the taxation areas to looking at, you know, social services, uh, to public safety, to also the, um, our, um, uh, additional agency methods, we're gonna use focused specifically on some of the use cases around, um, you know, fraud within the tax area. >>Uh, we'll briefly look at some of the aspects of, um, unemployment insurance fraud, uh, benefit fraud, as well as payment and integrity. So fraud has it it's, um, uh, underpinnings inquiry, like you different on government agencies and difficult, different analytical methods, and I usage of different data. So I think one of the key elements is, you know, you can look at your, your data landscape on specific data sources that you need, but it's really about bringing together different data sources across a different variety, a different velocity. So, uh, data has different dimensions. So we'll look at structured types of data of semi-structured data, behavioral data, as well as when we look at, um, you know, predictive models. We're typically looking at historical type information, but if we're actually trying to look at preventing fraud before it actually happens, or when a case may be in flight, which is specifically a use case that shad is going to talk about later is how do I look at more of that? >>Real-time that streaming information? How do I take advantage of data, whether it be, uh, you know, uh, financial transactions we're looking at, um, asset verification, we're looking at tax records, we're looking at corporate filings. Um, and we can also look at more, uh, advanced data sources where as we're looking at, um, investigation type information. So we're maybe going out and we're looking at, uh, deep learning type models around, uh, you know, semi or that, uh, behavioral, uh, that's unstructured data, whether it be camera analysis and so forth. So for quite a different variety of data and the, the breadth and the opportunity really comes about when you can integrate and look at data across all different data sources. So in a looking at a more extensive, uh, data landscape. So specifically I want to focus on some of the methods, some of the data sources and some of the analytical techniques that we're seeing, uh, being used, um, in the government agencies, as well as opportunities, uh, to look at new methods. >>So as we're looking at, you know, from a, um, an audit planning or looking at, uh, the opportunity for the likelihood of non-compliance, um, specifically we'll see data sources where we're maybe looking at a constituents profile, we might actually be investigating the forms that they've provided. We might be comparing that data, um, or leveraging internal data sources, possibly looking at net worth, comparing it against other financial data, and also comparison across other constituents groups. Some of the techniques that we use are some of the basic natural language processing, maybe we're going to do some text mining. We might be doing some probabilistic modeling, uh, where we're actually looking at, um, information within the agency to also comparing that against possibly tax forms. A lot of times it's information historically has been done on a batch perspective, both structured and semi-structured type information. And typically the data volumes can be low, but we're also seeing those data volumes on increase exponentially based upon the types of events that we're dealing with, the number of transactions. >>Um, so getting the throughput, um, and chef's going to specifically talk about that in a moment. The other aspect is, as we look at other areas of opportunity is when we're building upon, how do I actually do compliance? How do I actually look at conducting audits, uh, or potential fraud to also looking at areas of under-reported tax information? So there you might be pulling in some of our other types of data sources, whether it's being property records, it could be data that's being supplied by the actual constituents or by vendors to also pulling in social media information to geographical information, to leveraging photos on techniques that we're seeing used is possibly some sentiment analysis, link analysis. Um, how do we actually blend those data sources together from a natural language processing? But I think what's important here is also the method and the looking at the data velocity, whether it be batch, whether it be near real time, again, looking at all types of data, whether it's structured semi-structured or unstructured and the key and the value behind this is, um, how do we actually look at increasing the potential revenue or the, um, under reported revenue? >>Uh, how do we actually look at stopping fraudulent payments before they actually occur? Um, also looking at increasing the amount of, uh, the level of compliance, um, and also looking at the potential of prosecution of fraud cases. And additionally, other areas of opportunity could be looking at, um, economic planning. How do we actually perform some link analysis? How do we bring some more of those things that we saw in the data landscape on customer, or, you know, constituent interaction, bringing in social media, bringing in, uh, potentially police records, property records, um, other tax department, database information. Um, and then also looking at comparing one individual to other individuals, looking at people like a specific, like a constituent, are there areas where we're seeing, uh, >>Um, other >>Aspects of, of fraud potentially being occurring. Um, and also as we move forward, some of the more advanced techniques that we're seeing around deep learning is looking at computer vision, um, leveraging geospatial information, looking at social network entity analysis, uh, also looking at, uh, agent-based modeling techniques, where we're looking at simulation Monte Carlo type techniques that we typically see in the financial services industry, actually applying that to fraud, waste, and abuse within the, uh, the public sector. Um, and again, that really, uh, lends itself to a new opportunities. And on that, I'm going to turn it over to chef to talk about, uh, the reference architecture for, uh, doing these buckets. >>Thanks, Cindy. Um, so I'm gonna walk you through an example, reference architecture for fraud detection using, uh, Cloudera's underlying technology. Um, and you know, before I get into the technical details, uh, I want to talk about how this would be implemented at a much higher level. So with fraud detection, what we're trying to do is identify anomalies or novelists behavior within our datasets. Um, now in order to understand what aspects of our incoming data represents anomalous behavior, we first need to understand what normal behavior is. So in essence, once we understand normal behavior, anything that deviates from it can be thought of as an anomaly, right? So in order to understand what normal behavior is, we're going to need to be able to collect store and process a very large amount of historical data. And so incomes, clutters platform, and this reference architecture that needs to be for you. >>So, uh, let's start on the left-hand side of this reference architecture with the collect phase. So fraud detection will always begin with data collection. We need to collect large amounts of information from systems that could be in the cloud. It could be in the data center or even on edge devices, and this data needs to be collected so we can create our normal behavior profiles. And these normal behavioral profiles would then in turn, be used to create our predictive models for fraudulent activity. Now, uh, thinking, uh, to the data collection side, one of the main challenges that many organizations face, uh, in this phase, uh, involves using a single technology that can handle, uh, data that's coming in all different types of formats and protocols and standards with different velocities and velocities. Um, let me give you an example. Uh, we could be collecting data from a database that gets updated daily, uh, and maybe that data is being collected in Agra format. >>At the same time, we can be collecting data from an edge device that's streaming in every second, and that data may be coming in Jason or a binary format, right? So this is a data collection challenge that can be solved with cluttered data flow, which is a suite of technologies built on a patch NIFA in mini five, allowing us to ingest all of this data, do a drag and drop interface. So now we're collecting all of this data, that's required to map out normal behavior. The next thing that we need to do is enrich it, transform it and distribute it to, uh, you know, downstream systems for further process. Uh, so let's, let's walk through how that would work first. Let's taking Richmond for, uh, for enrichment, think of adding additional information to your incoming data, right? Let's take, uh, financial transactions, for example, uh, because Cindy mentioned it earlier, right? >>You can store known locations of an individual in an operational database, uh, with Cloudera that would be HBase. And as an individual makes a new transaction, their geolocation that's in that transaction data can be enriched with previously known locations of that very same individual. And all of that enriched data can be later used downstream for predictive analysis, predictable. So the data has been enrich. Uh, now it needs to be transformed. We want the data that's coming in, uh, you know, Avro and Jason and binary and whatever other format to be transformed into a single common format. So it can be used downstream for stream processing. Uh, again, this is going to be done through clutter and data flow, which is backed by NIFA, right? So the transformed semantic data is then going to be stricted to Kafka and coffin. It's going to serve as that central repository of syndicated services or a buffer zone, right? >>So coffee is going to pretty much provide you with, uh, extremely fast resilient and fault tolerance storage. And it's also gonna give you the consumer APIs that you need that are going to enable a wide variety of applications to leverage that enriched and transformed data within your buffer zone, uh, allowed that, you know, 17. So you can store that data in a distributed file system, give you that historical context that you're going to need later on for machine learning, right? So the next step in the architecture is to leverage a cluttered SQL stream builder, which enables us to write, uh, streaming SQL jobs on top of Apache Flink. So we can, uh, filter, analyze and, uh, understand the data that's in the Kafka buffer in real time. Uh I'll you know, I'll also add like, you know, if you have time series data, or if you need a lab type of cubing, you can leverage kudu, uh, while EDA or, you know, exploratory data analysis and visualization, uh, can all be enabled through clever visualization technology. >>All right, so we've filtered, we've analyzed and we've explored our incoming data. We can now proceed to train our machine learning models, uh, which will detect anomalous behavior in our historically collected data set, uh, to do this, we can use a combination of supervised unsupervised, uh, even deep learning techniques with neural networks. And these models can be tested on new incoming streaming data. And once we've gone ahead and obtain the accuracy of the performance, the scores that we want, we can then take these models and deploy them into production. And once the models are productionalized or operationalized, they can be leveraged within our streaming pipeline. So as new data is ingested in real-time knife, I can query these models to detect if the activity is anomalous or fraudulent. And if it is, they can alert downstream users and systems, right? So this in essence is how fraudulent activity detection works. >>Uh, and this entire pipeline is powered by clutters technology, right? And so, uh, the IRS is one of, uh, clutter's customers. That's leveraging our platform today and implementing, uh, a very similar architecture, uh, to detect fraud, waste, and abuse across a very large set of historical facts, data. Um, and one of the neat things with the IRS is that they've actually recently leveraged the partnership between Cloudera and Nvidia to accelerate their spark based analytics and their machine learning, uh, and the results have been nothing short of amazing, right? And in fact, we have a quote here from Joe and salty who's, uh, you know, the technical branch chief for the research analytics and statistics division group within the IRS with zero changes to our fraud detection workflow, we're able to obtain eight times to performance simply by adding GPS to our mainstream big data servers. This improvement translates to half the cost of ownership for the same workloads, right? So embedding GPU's into the reference architecture I covered earlier has enabled the IRS to improve their time to insights by as much as eight X while simultaneously reducing their underlying infrastructure costs by half, uh, Cindy back to you >>Chef. Thank you. Um, and I hope that you found, uh, some of the, the analysis, the information that Sheva and I have provided, um, to give you some insights on how cloud era is actually helping, uh, with the fraud waste and abuse challenges within the, uh, the public sector, um, specifically looking at any and all types of data, how the clutter platform is bringing together and analyzing information, whether it be you're structured you're semi-structured to unstructured data, both in a fast or in a real-time perspective, looking at anomalies, being able to do some of those on detection, uh, looking at neural network analysis, time series information. So next steps we'd love to have additional conversation with you. You can also find on some additional information around, I have caught areas working in the, the federal government by going to cloudera.com solutions slash public sector. And we welcome scheduling a meeting with you again, thank you for joining us Sheva and I today. We greatly appreciate your time and look forward to future progress. >>Good day, everyone. Thank you for joining me. I'm Sydney. Mike joined by Rick Taylor of Cloudera. Uh, we're here to talk about predictive maintenance for the public sector and how to increase assets, service, reliability on today's agenda. We'll talk specifically around how to optimize your equipment maintenance, how to reduce costs, asset failure with data and analytics. We'll go into a little more depth on, um, what type of data, the analytical methods that we're typically seeing used, um, the associated, uh, Brooke, we'll go over a case study as well as a reference architecture. So by basic definition, uh, predictive maintenance is about determining when an asset should be maintained and what specific maintenance activities need to be performed either based upon an assets of actual condition or state. It's also about predicting and preventing failures and performing maintenance on your time on your schedule to avoid costly unplanned downtime. >>McKinsey has looked at analyzing predictive maintenance costs across multiple industries and has identified that there's the opportunity to reduce overall predictive maintenance costs by roughly 50% with different types of analytical methods. So let's look at those three types of models. First, we've got our traditional type of method for maintenance, and that's really about our corrective maintenance, and that's when we're performing maintenance on an asset, um, after the equipment fails. But the challenges with that is we end up with unplanned. We end up with disruptions in our schedules, um, as well as reduced quality, um, around the performance of the asset. And then we started looking at preventive maintenance and preventative maintenance is really when we're performing maintenance on a set schedule. Um, the challenges with that is we're typically doing it regardless of the actual condition of the asset, um, which has resulted in unnecessary downtime and expense. Um, and specifically we're really now focused on pre uh, condition-based maintenance, which is looking at leveraging predictive maintenance techniques based upon actual conditions and real time events and processes. Um, within that we've seen organizations, um, and again, source from McKenzie have a 50% reduction in downtime, as well as an overall 40% reduction in maintenance costs. Again, this is really looking at things across multiple industries, but let's look at it in the context of the public sector and based upon some activity by the department of energy, um, several years ago, >>Um, they've really >>Looked at what does predictive maintenance mean to the public sector? What is the benefit, uh, looking at increasing return on investment of assets, reducing, uh, you know, reduction in downtime, um, as well as overall maintenance costs. So corrective or reactive based maintenance is really about performing once there's been a failure. Um, and then the movement towards, uh, preventative, which is based upon a set schedule or looking at predictive where we're monitoring real-time conditions. Um, and most importantly is now actually leveraging IOT and data and analytics to further reduce those overall downtimes. And there's a research report by the, uh, department of energy that goes into more specifics, um, on the opportunity within the public sector. So, Rick, let's talk a little bit about what are some of the challenges, uh, regarding data, uh, regarding predictive maintenance. >>Some of the challenges include having data silos, historically our government organizations and organizations in the commercial space as well, have multiple data silos. They've spun up over time. There are multiple business units and note, there's no single view of assets. And oftentimes there's redundant information stored in, in these silos of information. Uh, couple that with huge increases in data volume data growing exponentially, along with new types of data that we can ingest there's social media, there's semi and unstructured data sources and the real time data that we can now collect from the internet of things. And so the challenge is to collect all these assets together and begin to extract intelligence from them and insights and, and that in turn then fuels, uh, machine learning and, um, and, and what we call artificial intelligence, which enables predictive maintenance. Next slide. So >>Let's look specifically at, you know, the, the types of use cases and I'm going to Rick and I are going to focus on those use cases, where do we see predictive maintenance coming into the procurement facility, supply chain, operations and logistics. Um, we've got various level of maturity. So, you know, we're talking about predictive maintenance. We're also talking about, uh, using, uh, information, whether it be on a, um, a connected asset or a vehicle doing monitoring, uh, to also leveraging predictive maintenance on how do we bring about, uh, looking at data from connected warehouses facilities and buildings all bring on an opportunity to both increase the quality and effectiveness of the missions within the agencies to also looking at re uh, looking at cost efficiency, as well as looking at risk and safety and the types of data, um, you know, that Rick mentioned around, you know, the new types of information, some of those data elements that we typically have seen is looking at failure history. >>So when has that an asset or a machine or a component within a machine failed in the past? Uh, we've also looking at bringing together a maintenance history, looking at a specific machine. Are we getting error codes off of a machine or assets, uh, looking at when we've replaced certain components to looking at, um, how are we actually leveraging the assets? What were the operating conditions, uh, um, pulling off data from a sensor on that asset? Um, also looking at the, um, the features of an asset, whether it's, you know, engine size it's make and model, um, where's the asset located on to also looking at who's operated the asset, uh, you know, whether it be their certifications, what's their experience, um, how are they leveraging the assets and then also bringing in together, um, some of the, the pattern analysis that we've seen. So what are the operating limits? Um, are we getting service reliability? Are we getting a product recall information from the actual manufacturer? So, Rick, I know the data landscape has really changed. Let's, let's go over looking at some of those components. Sure. >>So this slide depicts sort of the, some of the inputs that inform a predictive maintenance program. So, as we've talked a little bit about the silos of information, the ERP system of record, perhaps the spares and the service history. So we want, what we want to do is combine that information with sensor data, whether it's a facility and equipment sensors, um, uh, or temperature and humidity, for example, all this stuff is then combined together, uh, and then use to develop machine learning models that better inform, uh, predictive maintenance, because we'll do need to keep, uh, to take into account the environmental factors that may cause additional wear and tear on the asset that we're monitoring. So here's some examples of private sector, uh, maintenance use cases that also have broad applicability across the government. For example, one of the busiest airports in Europe is running cloud era on Azure to capture secure and correlate sensor data collected from equipment within the airport, the people moving equipment more specifically, the escalators, the elevators, and the baggage carousels. >>The objective here is to prevent breakdowns and improve airport efficiency and passenger safety. Another example is a container shipping port. In this case, we use IOT data and machine learning, help customers recognize how their cargo handling equipment is performing in different weather conditions to understand how usage relates to failure rates and to detect anomalies and transport systems. These all improve for another example is Navistar Navistar, leading manufacturer of commercial trucks, buses, and military vehicles. Typically vehicle maintenance, as Cindy mentioned, is based on miles traveled or based on a schedule or a time since the last service. But these are only two of the thousands of data points that can signal the need for maintenance. And as it turns out, unscheduled maintenance and vehicle breakdowns account for a large share of the total cost for vehicle owner. So to help fleet owners move from a reactive approach to a more predictive model, Navistar built an IOT enabled remote diagnostics platform called on command. >>The platform brings in over 70 sensor data feeds for more than 375,000 connected vehicles. These include engine performance, trucks, speed, acceleration, cooling temperature, and break where this data is then correlated with other Navistar and third-party data sources, including weather geo location, vehicle usage, traffic warranty, and parts inventory information. So the platform then uses machine learning and advanced analytics to automatically detect problems early and predict maintenance requirements. So how does the fleet operator use this information? They can monitor truck health and performance from smartphones or tablets and prioritize needed repairs. Also, they can identify that the nearest service location that has the relevant parts, the train technicians and the available service space. So sort of wrapping up the, the benefits Navistar's helped fleet owners reduce maintenance by more than 30%. The same platform is also used to help school buses run safely. And on time, for example, one school district with 110 buses that travel over a million miles annually reduce the number of PTOs needed year over year, thanks to predictive insights delivered by this platform. >>So I'd like to take a moment and walk through the data. Life cycle is depicted in this diagram. So data ingest from the edge may include feeds from the factory floor or things like connected vehicles, whether they're trucks, aircraft, heavy equipment, cargo vessels, et cetera. Next, the data lands on a secure and governed data platform. Whereas combined with data from existing systems of record to provide additional insights, and this platform supports multiple analytic functions working together on the same data while maintaining strict security governance and control measures once processed the data is used to train machine learning models, which are then deployed into production, monitored, and retrained as needed to maintain accuracy. The process data is also typically placed in a data warehouse and use to support business intelligence, analytics, and dashboards. And in fact, this data lifecycle is representative of one of our government customers doing condition-based maintenance across a variety of aircraft. >>And the benefits they've discovered include less unscheduled maintenance and a reduction in mean man hours to repair increased maintenance efficiencies, improved aircraft availability, and the ability to avoid cascading component failures, which typically cost more in repair cost and downtime. Also, they're able to better forecast the requirements for replacement parts and consumables and last, and certainly very importantly, this leads to enhanced safety. This chart overlays the secure open source Cloudera platform used in support of the data life cycle. We've been discussing Cloudera data flow, the data ingest data movement and real time streaming data query capabilities. So data flow gives us the capability to bring data in from the asset of interest from the internet of things. While the data platform provides a secure governed data lake and visibility across the full machine learning life cycle eliminates silos and streamlines workflows across teams. The platform includes an integrated suite of secure analytic applications. And two that we're specifically calling out here are Cloudera machine learning, which supports the collaborative data science and machine learning environment, which facilitates machine learning and AI and the cloud era data warehouse, which supports the analytics and business intelligence, including those dashboards for leadership Cindy, over to you, Rick, >>Thank you. And I hope that, uh, Rick and I provided you some insights on how predictive maintenance condition-based maintenance is being used and can be used within your respective agency, bringing together, um, data sources that maybe you're having challenges with today. Uh, bringing that, uh, more real-time information in from a streaming perspective, blending that industrial IOT, as well as historical information together to help actually, uh, optimize maintenance and reduce costs within the, uh, each of your agencies, uh, to learn a little bit more about Cloudera, um, and our, what we're doing from a predictive maintenance please, uh, business@cloudera.com solutions slash public sector. And we look forward to scheduling a meeting with you, and on that, we appreciate your time today and thank you very much.

>>Hi, this is Cindy Mikey, vice president of industry solutions at Cloudera. Joining me today is chef is Molly, our solution engineer for the public sector. Today. We're going to talk about speed to insight. Why using machine learning in the public sector, specifically around fraud, waste and abuse. So topic for today, we'll discuss machine learning, why the public sector uses it to target fraud, waste, and abuse, the challenges. How do we enhance your data and analytical approaches the data landscape analytical methods and Shev we'll go over reference architecture and a case study. So by definition, fraud, waste and abuse per the government accountability office is fraud is an attempt to obtain something about a value through unwelcomed. Misrepresentation waste is about squandering money or resources and abuse is about behaving improperly or unreasonably to actually obtain something of value for your personal benefit. So as we look at fraud and across all industries, it's a top of mind, um, area within the public sector. >>Um, the types of fraud that we see is specifically around cyber crime, uh, looking at accounting fraud, whether it be from an individual perspective to also, uh, within organizations, looking at financial statement fraud, to also looking at bribery and corruption, as we look at fraud, it really hits us from all angles, whether it be from external perpetrators or internal perpetrators, and specifically from the research by PWC, the key focus area is we also see over half of fraud is actually through some form of internal or external are perpetrators again, key topics. So as we also look at a report recently by the association of certified fraud examiners, um, within the public sector, the us government, um, in 2017, it was identified roughly $148 billion was attributable to fraud, waste and abuse. Specifically of that 57 billion was focused on reported monetary losses and another 91 billion on areas where that opportunity or the monetary basis had not yet been measured. >>As we look at breaking those areas down again, we look at several different topics from an out payment perspective. So breaking it down within the health system, over $65 billion within social services, over $51 billion to procurement fraud to also, um, uh, fraud, waste and abuse that's happening in the grants and the loan process to payroll fraud, and then other aspects, again, quite a few different topical areas. So as we look at those areas, what are the areas that we see additional type of focus, there's broad stroke areas? What are the actual use cases that our agencies are using the data landscape? What data, what analytical methods can we use to actually help curtail and prevent some of the, uh, the fraud waste and abuse. So, as we look at some of the analytical processes and analytical use crate, uh, use cases in the public sector, whether it's from, uh, you know, the taxation areas to looking at social services, uh, to public safety, to also the, um, our, um, uh, additional agency methods, we're going to focus specifically on some of the use cases around, um, you know, fraud within the tax area. >>Uh, we'll briefly look at some of the aspects of unemployment insurance fraud, uh, benefit fraud, as well as payment and integrity. So fraud has its, um, uh, underpinnings in quite a few different on government agencies and difficult, different analytical methods and I usage of different data. So I think one of the key elements is, you know, you can look at your, your data landscape on specific data sources that you need, but it's really about bringing together different data sources across a different variety, a different velocity. So, uh, data has different dimensions. So we'll look at on structured types of data of semi-structured data, behavioral data, as well as when we look at, um, you know, predictive models, we're typically looking at historical type information, but if we're actually trying to lock at preventing fraud before it actually happens, or when a case may be in flight, which is specifically a use case, that shadow is going to talk about later it's how do I look at more of that? >>Real-time that streaming information? How do I take advantage of data, whether it be, uh, you know, uh, financial transactions we're looking at, um, asset verification, we're looking at tax records, we're looking at corporate filings. Um, and we can also look at more, uh, advanced data sources where as we're looking at, um, investigation type information. So we're maybe going out and we're looking at, uh, deep learning type models around, uh, you know, semi or that behavioral, uh, that's unstructured data, whether it be camera analysis and so forth. So quite a different variety of data and the, the breadth, um, and the opportunity really comes about when you can integrate and look at data across all different data sources. So in a sense, looking at a more extensive on data landscape. So specifically I want to focus on some of the methods, some of the data sources and some of the analytical techniques that we're seeing, uh, being used, um, in the government agencies, as well as opportunities, uh, to look at new methods. >>So as we're looking at, you know, from a, um, an audit planning or looking at, uh, the opportunity for the likelihood of non-compliance, um, specifically we'll see data sources where we're maybe looking at a constituents profile, we might actually be, um, investigating the forms that they've provided. We might be comparing that data, um, or leveraging internal data sources, possibly looking at net worth, comparing it against other financial data, and also comparison across other constituents groups. Some of the techniques that we use are some of the basic natural language processing, maybe we're going to do some text mining. We might be doing some probabilistic modeling, uh, where we're actually looking at, um, information within the agency to also comparing that against possibly tax forms. A lot of times it's information historically has been done on a batch perspective, both structured and semi-structured type information. And typically the data volumes can be low, but we're also seeing those data volumes increase exponentially based upon the types of events that we're dealing with, the number of transactions. >>Um, so getting the throughput, um, and chef's going to specifically talk about that in a moment. The other aspect is, as we look at other areas of opportunity is when we're building upon, how do I actually do compliance? How do I actually look at conducting audits, uh, or potential fraud to also looking at areas of under reported tax information? So there you might be pulling in some of our other types of data sources, whether it's being property records, it could be data that's being supplied by the actual constituents or by vendors to also pulling in social media information to geographical information, to leveraging photos on techniques that we're seeing used is possibly some sentiment analysis, link analysis. Um, how do we actually blend those data sources together from a natural language processing? But I think what's important here is also the method and the looking at the data velocity, whether it be batch, whether it be near real time, again, looking at all types of data, whether it's structured semi-structured or unstructured and the key and the value behind this is, um, how do we actually look at increasing the potential revenue or the, um, under reported revenue? >>Uh, how do we actually look at stopping fraudulent payments before they actually occur? Um, also looking at increasing the amount of, uh, the level of compliance, um, and also looking at the potential of prosecution of fraud cases. And additionally, other areas of opportunity could be looking at, um, economic planning. How do we actually perform some link analysis? How do we bring some more of those things that we saw in the data landscape on customer, or, you know, constituent interaction, bringing in social media, bringing in, uh, potentially police records, property records, um, other tax department, database information. Um, and then also looking at comparing one individual to other individuals, looking at people like a specific, like, uh, constituent, are there areas where we're seeing, uh, um, other aspects of, of fraud potentially being, uh, occurring. Um, and also as we move forward, some of the more advanced techniques that we're seeing around deep learning is looking at computer vision, um, leveraging geospatial information, looking at social network entity analysis, uh, also looking at, um, agent-based modeling techniques, where we're looking at simulation, Monte Carlo type techniques that we typically see in the financial services industry, actually applying that to fraud, waste, and abuse within the, the public sector. >>Um, and again, that really, uh, lends itself to a new opportunities. And on that, I'm going to turn it over to Chevy to talk about, uh, the reference architecture for doing these buckets. >>Sure. Yeah. Thanks, Cindy. Um, so I'm going to walk you through an example, reference architecture for fraud detection, using Cloudera as underlying technology. Um, and you know, before I get into the technical details, uh, I want to talk about how this would be implemented at a much higher level. So with fraud detection, what we're trying to do is identify anomalies or anomalous behavior within our datasets. Um, now in order to understand what aspects of our incoming data represents anomalous behavior, we first need to understand what normal behavior is. So in essence, once we understand normal behavior, anything that deviates from it can be thought of as an anomaly, right? So in order to understand what normal behavior is, we're going to need to be able to collect store and process a very large amount of historical data. And so incomes, clutters platform, and this reference architecture that needs to be for you. >>So, uh, let's start on the left-hand side of this reference architecture with the collect phase. So fraud detection will always begin with data collection. Uh, we need to collect large amounts of information from systems that could be in the cloud. It could be in the data center or even on edge devices, and this data needs to be collected so we can create from normal behavior profiles and these normal behavioral profiles would then in turn, be used to create our predictive models for fraudulent activity. Now, uh, uh, to the data collection side, one of the main challenges that many organizations face, uh, in this phase, uh, involves using a single technology that can handle, uh, data that's coming in all different types of formats and protocols and standards with different velocities and velocities. Um, let me give you an example. Uh, we could be collecting data from a database that gets updated daily, uh, and maybe that data is being collected in Agra format. >>At the same time, we can be collecting data from an edge device that's streaming in every second, and that data may be coming in Jace on or a binary format, right? So this is a data collection challenge that can be solved with cluttered data flow, which is a suite of technologies built on Apache NIFA and mini five, allowing us to ingest all of this data, do a drag and drop interface. So now we're collecting all of this data, that's required to map out normal behavior. The next thing that we need to do is enrich it, transform it and distribute it to know downstream systems for further process. Uh, so let's, let's walk through how that would work first. Let's taking Richmond for, uh, for enrichment, think of adding additional information to your incoming data, right? Let's take, uh, financial transactions, for example, uh, because Cindy mentioned it earlier, right? >>You can store known locations of an individual in an operational database, uh, with Cloudera that would be HBase. And as an individual makes a new transaction, their geo location that's in that transaction data, it can be enriched with previously known locations of that very same individual and all of that enriched data. It can be later used downstream for predictive analysis, predictable. So the data has been enrich. Uh, now it needs to be transformed. We want the data that's coming in, uh, you know, Avro and Jason and binary and whatever other format to be transformed into a single common format. So it can be used downstream for stream processing. Uh, again, this is going to be done through clutter and data flow, which is backed by NIFA, right? So the transformed semantic data is then going to be stimulated to Kafka and coffin is going to serve as that central repository of syndicated services or a buffer zone, right? >>So cough is, you know, pretty much provides you with, uh, extremely fast resilient and fault tolerance storage. And it's also going to give you the consumer API APIs that you need that are going to enable a wide variety of applications to leverage that enriched and transform data within your buffer zone. Uh, I'll add that, you know, 17, so you can store that data, uh, in a distributed file system, give you that historical context that you're going to need later on from machine learning, right? So the next step in the architecture is to leverage, uh, clutter SQL stream builder, which enables us to write, uh, streaming sequel jobs on top of Apache Flink. So we can, uh, filter, analyze and, uh, understand the data that's in the Kafka buffer zone in real-time. Uh, I'll, you know, I'll also add like, you know, if you have time series data, or if you need a lab type of cubing, you can leverage Q2, uh, while EDA or, you know, exploratory data analysis and visualization, uh, can all be enabled through clever visualization technology. >>All right, so we've filtered, we've analyzed, and we've our incoming data. We can now proceed to train our machine learning models, uh, which will detect anomalous behavior in our historically collected data set, uh, to do this, we can use a combination of supervised unsupervised, even deep learning techniques with neural networks. Uh, and these models can be tested on new incoming streaming data. And once we've gone ahead and obtain the accuracy of the performance, the X one, uh, scores that we want, we can then take these models and deploy them into production. And once the models are productionalized or operationalized, they can be leveraged within our streaming pipeline. So as new data is ingested in real time knife, I can query these models to detect if the activity is anomalous or fraudulent. And if it is, they can alert downstream users and systems, right? So this in essence is how fraudulent activity detection works. Uh, and this entire pipeline is powered by clutters technology. Uh, Cindy, next slide please. >>Right. And so, uh, the IRS is one of, uh, clutter as customers. That's leveraging our platform today and implementing a very similar architecture, uh, to detect fraud, waste, and abuse across a very large set of, uh, historical facts, data. Um, and one of the neat things with the IRS is that they've actually recently leveraged the partnership between Cloudera and Nvidia to accelerate their Spark-based analytics and their machine learning. Uh, and the results have been nothing short of amazing, right? And in fact, we have a quote here from Joe and salty who's, uh, you know, the technical branch chief for the research analytics and statistics division group within the IRS with zero changes to our fraud detection workflow, we're able to obtain eight times to performance simply by adding GPS to our mainstream big data servers. This improvement translates to half the cost of ownership for the same workloads, right? So embedding GPU's into the reference architecture I covered earlier has enabled the IRS to improve their time to insights by as much as eight X while simultaneously reducing their underlying infrastructure costs by half, uh, Cindy back to you >>Chef. Thank you. Um, and I hope that you found, uh, some of the, the analysis, the information that Sheva and I have provided, uh, to give you some insights on how cloud era is actually helping, uh, with the fraud waste and abuse challenges within the, uh, the public sector, um, specifically looking at any and all types of data, how the clutter a platform is bringing together and analyzing information, whether it be you're structured you're semi-structured to unstructured data, both in a fast or in a real-time perspective, looking at anomalies, being able to do some of those on detection methods, uh, looking at neural network analysis, time series information. So next steps we'd love to have an additional conversation with you. You can also find on some additional information around how called areas working in federal government, by going to cloudera.com solutions slash public sector. And we welcome scheduling a meeting with you again, thank you for joining us today. Uh, we greatly appreciate your time and look forward to future conversations. Thank you.