>>live from Stanford University. It's the queue covering Stanford women in data Science 2020. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media. >>Hi, and welcome to the Cube. I'm your host, Sonia today, Ari. And we're live at Stanford University covering wigs, Women in Data Science Conference 2020 And this is the fifth annual one. Joining us today is John Hoegger, who is the principal data scientist manager at Microsoft. John. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks. So tell us a little bit about your role at Microsoft. >>I manage a central data science team for myself. 3 65 >>And tell us more about what you do on a daily basis. >>Yeah, so we look at it across all the different myself. 365 products Office Windows security products has really try and drive growth, whether it's trying to provide recommendations to customers to end uses to drive more engagement with the products that they use every day. >>And you're also on the Weeds Conference Planning Committee. So tell us about how you joined and how that experience has been like, >>Yeah, actually, I was at Stanford about a week after the very first conference on. I got talking to Karen, one of this co organizers of that that conference and I found out there was only one sponsor very first year, which was WalMart Labs >>on. >>The more that she talked about it, the more that I wanted to be involved on. I thought that makes it really should be a sponsor, this initiative. And so I got details. I went back and my assessment sponsor. Ever since I've been on the committee trying it help with. I didn't find speakers on and review and the different speakers that we have each year. And it's it's amazing just to see how this event has grown over the four years. >>Yeah, that's awesome. So when you first started, how many people attended in the beginning? >>So it started off as we're in this conference with 400 people and just a few other regional events, and so was live streamed but just ready to a few universities. And ever since then it's gone with the words ambassadors and people around the world. >>Yes, and outwits has is over 60 countries on every continent except Antarctica has told them in the Kino a swell as has 400 plus attendees here and his life stream. So how do you think would has evolved over the years? >>Uh, it's it's term from just a conference to a movement. Now it's Ah, there's all these new Our regional events have been set up every year and just people coming together, I'm working together. So, Mike, self hosting different events. We had events in Redmond. I had office and also in New York and Boston and other places as well. >>So as a as a data scientist manager for many years at Microsoft, I'm I'm sure you've seen it increase in women taking technical roles. Tell us a little bit about that. >>Yeah, And for any sort of company you have to try and provide that environment. And part of that is even from recruiting and ensuring that you've got a diverse into s. So we make sure that we have women on every set of interviews to be able to really answer the question. What's it like to be a woman on this team and your old men contents of that question on? So you know that helps as faras we try, encourage more were parented some of these things demos on. I've now got a team of 30 data scientists, and half of them are women, which is great. >>That's also, um So, uh, um, what advice would you give to young professional women who are just coming out of college or who just starting college or interested in a stem field? But maybe think, Oh, I don't know if they'll be anyone like me in the room. >>Uh, you ask the questions when you interview I go for those interviews and asked, like Like, say, What's it like to be a woman on the team? All right. You're really ensuring that the teams that you're joining the companies you joined in a inclusive on and really value diversity in the workforce >>and talking about that as we heard in the opening address that diversity brings more perspectives, and it also helps take away bias from data science. How have you noticed that that bias becoming more fair, especially at your time at Microsoft? >>Yeah, and that's what the rest is about. Is just having those diverse set of perspectives on opinions in heaven. More people just looking like a data and thinking through your holiday to come. Views on and ensure has been used in the right way. >>Right. Um and so, um, what do you going forward? Do you plan to still be on the woods committee? What do you see with is going how DC woods in five years? >>Ah, yeah. I live in for this conference I've been on the committee on. I just expected to continue to grow. I think it's just going right beyond a conference. Dossevi in the podcasts on all the other initiatives that occurring from that. >>Great. >>John, Thank you so much for being on the Cube. It was great having >>you here. Thank you. >>Thanks for watching the Cube. I'm your host, Sonia, to worry and stay tuned for more. Yeah.

>> From the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston Massachusetts, it's "The Cube." (groovy techno music) Now, here's your host, Dave Vellante. >> Hello, everyone. The rise of open source is really powering the digital economy. And in a world where every company is essentially under pressure to become a software firm, open source software really becomes the linchpin of digital services for both incumbents and, of course, digital natives. Here's the challenge, is when developers tap and apply open source, they're often bringing in hundreds, or even thousands of lines of code that reside in open sourced packages and libraries. And these code bases, they have dependencies, and essentially hidden traps. Now typically, security vulnerabilities in code, they're attacked after the software's developed. Or maybe thrown over the fence to the sec-ops team and SNYK is a company that set out to solve this problem within the application development life cycle, not after the fact as a built-on. Now, with us to talk about this mega-trend is Peter McKay, a friend of The Cube and CEO of SNYK. Peter, great to see you again. >> Good to see you, dude. >> So I got to start with the name. SNYK, what does it mean? >> SNYK, So Now You Know. You know, people it's sneakers sneak. And they tend to use the snick. So it's SNYK or snick. But it is SNYK and it stands for So Now You Know. Kind of a security, so now you know a lot more about your applications than you ever did before. So it's kind of a fitting name. >> So you heard my narrative upfront. Maybe you can add a little color to that and provide some additional background. >> Yeah, I mean, it's a, you know, when you think of the larger trends that are going on in the market, you know, every company is going through this digital transformation. You know, and every CEO, it's the number one priority. We've got to change our business from, you know, financial services, healthcare, insurance company, whatever, are all switching to digital, you know, more of a software company. And with that, more software equals more software risk and cybersecurity continues to be, you know, a major. I think 72% of CEOs worry about cybersecurity as a top issue in protecting companies' data. And so for us, we've been in the software in the security space for the four and a half years. I've been in the security space since, you know, Watchfire 20 years ago. And right now, with more and more, as you said, open source and containers, the challenge of being able to address the cybersecurity issues that have never been more challenging. And so especially when you add the gap between the need for security professionals and what they have. I think it's four million open positions for security people. So you know, with all this added risk, more and more open source, more and more digitization, it's created this opportunity in the market where you're traditional approaches to addressing security don't work today, you know? Like you said, throwing it over the fence and having someone in security, you know, check and make sure and finding all these vulnerabilities, and throw it back to developers to fix is very slow and something at this point is not driving to success. >> So talk a little bit more about what attracted you to SNYK early. I mean, you've been with the company, you're at least involved in the company for a couple years now. What were the trends that you saw, and what was it about SNYK that, you know, led you to become an investor and ultimately, CEO? >> Yeah, so four years involved in the business. So you know, I've always loved the security space. I've been in it for a number, almost 20 years. So I enjoy the space. You know, I've watched it. The founder, Guy Podjarny, one of the founders of SNYK, has been a friend of mine for 16 years from back in the Watchfire days. So we've always stayed connected. I've always worked well together with him. And so when you started, and I was on the board, the first board member of the company, so I could see what was going on, and it was this, you know, changing, kind of the right place at the right time in terms of developer first security. Really taking all the things that are going on in the security space that impacts a developer or can be addressed by the developer, and embedding it into the software into that developer community, in a way that developers use, the tools that they use. So it's a developer-first mindset with security expertise built-in. And so when you look at the market, the number of open source container evolution, you know, it's a huge market opportunity. Then you look at the business momentum, just took off over the past, you know, four years. That it was something that I was getting more and more involved in. And then when Guy asked me to join as the CEO, it was like, "Sure, what took you so long?" (Dave laughing) >> We had Guy on at Node JS Summit. I want to say it was a couple years ago now. And what he was describing is when you package, take the example of Node. When you package code in Node, you bring in all these dependencies, kind of what I was talking about there, but the challenge that he sort of described was really making it seamless as part of the development workflow. It seems like that's unique to SNYK. Maybe you could talk about-- >> Yeah, it is. And you know, we've built it from the ground up. You know, it's very difficult. If it was a security tool for security people, and then say, "Oh, let's adapt it for the developer," that is almost impossible. Why I think we've been so successful from the 400,000 developers in the community using Freemium to paid, was we built it from the ground up for developer, embedded into the application-development life cycle. Into their process, the look and feel, easy for them to use, easy for them to try it, and then we focused on just developer adoption. A great experience, developers will continue to use it and expand with it. And most of our opportunities that we've been successful at, the customers, we have over 400 customers. That had been this try, you know, start it with the community. They used the Freemium, they tried it for their new application, then they tried it for all their new, and then they go back and replace the old. So it was kind of this Freemium, land and expand has been a great way for developers to try it, use it. Does it work, yes, buy more. And that's the way we work. >> We're really happy, Peter, that you came on because you've got some news today that you're choosing to share with us in our Cube community. So it's around financing, bring us up to date. What's the news? >> Yeah so you know, I'd say four months ago, five months ago, we raised a $70 million round from great investors. And that was really led by one of our existing investors, who kind of knew us the best and it was you know, Excel Venture, and then Excel Growth came in and led the $70 million round. And part of that was a few new investors that came in and Stripes, which is you know a very large growth equity investor were part of that $70 million round said you know, preempted it and said, "Look it, we know you don't need the money, but we want to," you know, "We want to preempt. We believe your customer momentum," here we did, you know, five or six really large deals. You know, one, 700, seven million, 7.4 million, one's 3.5 million. So we started getting these bigger deals and we doubled since the $70 million round. And so we said, "Okay, we want to make money not the issue." So they led the next round, which is $150 million round, at a valuation of over a billion. That really allows us now to, with the number of other really top tier, (mumbles) and Tiger and Trend and others, who have been part of watching the space and understand the market. And are really helping us grow this business internationally. So it's an exciting time. So you know, again, we weren't looking to raise. This was something that kind of came to us and you know, when people are that excited about it like we are and they know us the best because they've been part of our board of directors since their round, it allows us to do the things that we want to do faster. >> So $150 million raise this round, brings you up to the 250, is that correct? >> Yes, 250. >> And obviously, an up-round. So congratulations, that's great. >> Yeah, you know, I think a big part of that is you know, we're not, I mean, we've always been very fiscally responsible. I mean, yes we have the money and most of it's still in the bank. We're growing at the pace that we think is right for us and right for the market. You know, we continue to invest product, product, product, is making sure we continue our product-led organization. You know, from that bottoms up, which is something we continue to do. This allows us to accelerate that more aggressively, but also the community, which is a big part of what makes that, you know, when you have a bottoms up, you need to have that community. And we've grown that and we're going to continue to invest aggressively and build in that community. And lastly, go to market. Not only invest, invest aggressively in the North America, but also Europe and APJ, which, you know, a lot of the things we've learned from my Veeam experience, you know how to grow fast, go big or go home. You know, are things that we're going to do but we're going to do it in the right way. >> So the Golden Rule is product and sales, right? >> Yes, you're either building it or selling it. >> Right, that's kind of where you're going to put your money. You know, you talk a lot about people, companies will do IPOs to get seen, but companies today, I mean, even software companies, which is a capital-efficient industry, they raise a lot of dough and they put it towards promotion to compete. What are your thoughts on that? >> You know, we've had, the model is very straightforward. It's bottoms up, you know? Developers, you know, there's 28 million developers in the world, you know? What we want is every one of those 28 million to be using our product. Whether it's free or paid, I want SNYK used in every application-development life cycle. If you're one developer, or you're a sales force with standardized on 12,000 developers, we want them using SNYK. So for us, it's get it in the hands. And that, you know, it's not like-- developers aren't going to look at Super Bowl ads, they're not going to be looking. It's you know, it's finding the ways, like the conference. We bought the DevSecCon, you know, the conference for developer security. Another way to promote kind of our, you know, security for developers and grow that developer community. That's not to say that there isn't a security part. Because, you know, what we do is help security organizations with visibility and finding a much more scalable way that gets them out of the, you know, the slows-down, the speed bump to the moving apps more aggressively into production. And so this is very much about helping security people. A lot of times the budgets do come from security or dev-ops. But it's because of our focus on the developer and the success of fixing, finding, fixing, and auto-remediating that developer environment is what makes us special. >> And it's sounds like a key to your success is you're not asking developer to context switch into a new environment, right? It's part of their existing workflow. >> It has to be, right? Don't change how they do their job, right? I mean, their job is to develop incredible applications that are better than the competitors, get them to market faster than they can, than they've ever been able to do before and faster than the competitor, but do it securely. Our goal is to do the third, but not sacrifice on one and two, right? Help you drive it, help you get your applications to market, help you beat your competition, but do it in a secure fashion. So don't slow them down. >> Well, the other thing I like about you guys is the emphasis is on fixing. It's not just alerting people that there's a problem. I mean, for instance, a company like Red Hat, is that they're going to put a lot of fixes in. But you, of course, have to go implement them. What you're doing is saying, "Hey, we're going to do that for you. Push the button and then we'll do it," right? So that, to me, that's important because it enables automation, it enables scale. >> Exactly, and I think this has been one of the challenges for kind of more of the traditional legacy, is they find a whole bunch of vulnerabilities, right? And we feel as though just that alone, we're the best in the world at. Finding vulnerabilities in applications in open source container. And so the other part of it is, okay, you find all them, but prioritizing what it is that I should fix first? And that's become really big issue because the vulnerabilities, as you can imagine, continue to grow. But focusing on hey, fix this top 10%, then the next, and to the extent you can, auto-fix. Auto-remediate those problems, that's ultimately, we're measured by how many vulnerabilities do we fix, right? I mean, finding them, that's one thing. But fixing them is how we judge a successful customer. And now it's possible. Before, it was like, "Oh, okay, you're just going to show me more things." No, when you talk about Google and Salesforce and Intuit, and all of our customers, they're actually getting far better. They're seeing what they have in terms of their exposure, and they're fixing the problems. And that's ultimately what we're focused on. >> So some of those big whales that you just mentioned, it seems to me that the value proposition for those guys, Peter, is the quality of the code that they can develop and obviously, the time that it takes to do that. But if you think about it more of a traditional enterprise, which I'm sure is part of your (mumbles), they'll tell you, the (mumbles) will tell you our biggest problem is we don't have enough people with the skills. Does this help? >> It absolutely-- >> And how so? >> Yeah, I mean, there's a massive gap in security expertise. And the current approach, the tools, are, you know, like you said at the very beginning, it's I'm doing too late in the process. I need to do it upstream. So you've got to leverage the 28 million developers that are developing the applications. It's the only way to solve the problem of, you know, this application security challenge. We call it Cloud Dative Application Security, which all these applications usually are new apps that they're moving into the Cloud. And so to really fix it, to solve the problem, you got to embed it, make it really easy for developers to leverage SNYK in their whole, we call it, you know, it's that concept of shift left, you know? Our view is that it needs to be embedded within the development process. And that's how you fix the problem. >> And talk about the business model again. You said it's Freemium model, you just talked about a big seven figure deals that you're doing and that starts with a Freemium, and then what? I upgrade to a subscription and then it's a land and expand? Describe that. >> Yeah we call it, it's you know, it's the community. Let's get every developer in a community. 28 million, we want to get into our community. From there, you know, leverage our Freemium, use it. You know, we encourage you to use it. Everybody to use our Freemium. And it's full functionality. It's not restricted in anyway. You can use it. And there's a subset of those that are ready to say, "Look it, I want to use the paid version," which allows me to get more visibility across more developers. So as you get larger organization, you want to leverage the power of kind of a bigger, managing multiple developers, like a lot of, in different teams. And so that kind of gets that shift to that paid. Then it goes into that Freemium, land, expand, we call it explode. Sales force, kind of explode. And then renew. That's been our model. Get in the door, get them using Freemium, we have a great experience, go to paid. And that's usually for an application, then it goes to 10 applications, and then 300 developers and then the way we price is by developer. So the more developers who use, the better your developer adoption, the bigger the ultimate opportunity is for us. >> There's a subscription service right? >> All subscription. >> Okay and then you guys have experts that are identifying vulnerabilities, right? You put them into a database, presumably, and then you sort of operationalize that into your software and your service. >> Yeah, we have 15 people in our security team that do nothing everyday but looking for the next vulnerability. That's our vulnerability database, in a large case, is a lot of our big companies start with the database. Because you think of like Netflix and you think of Facebook, all of these companies have large security organizations that are looking for issues, looking for vulnerabilities. And they're saying, "Well okay, if I can get that feed from you, why do I have my own?" And so a lot of companies start just with the database feed and say, "Look, I'll get rid of mine, and use yours." And then eventually, we'll use this scanning and we'll evolve down the process. But there's no doubt in the market people who use our solution or other solution will say our known the database of known vulnerabilities, is far better than anybody else in the market. >> And who do you sell to, again? Who are the constituencies? Is it sec-ops, is it, you know, software engineering? Is it developers, dev-ops? >> Users are always developers. In some cases dev-ops, or dev-sec. Apps-sec, you're starting to see kind of the world, the developer security becoming bigger. You know, as you get larger, you're definitely security becomes a bigger part of the journey and some of the budget comes from the security teams. Or the risk or dev-ops. But I think if we were to, you know, with the user and some of the influencers from developers, dev-ops, and security are kind of the key people in the equation. >> Is your, you have a lot of experience in the enterprise. How do you see your go to market in this world different, given that it's really a developer constituency that you're targeting? I mean, normally, you'd go out, hire a bunch of expensive sales guys, go to market, is that the model or is it a little different here because of the target? >> Yeah, you know, to be honest, a lot of the momentum that we've had at this point has been inbound. Like most of the opportunities that come in, come to us from the community, from this ground up. And so we have a very large inside sales team that just kind of follows up on the inbound interest. And that's still, you know, 65, 70% of the opportunities that come to us both here and Europe and APJ, are coming from the community inbound. Okay, I'm using 10 licenses of SNYK, you know, I want to get the enterprise version of it. And so that's been how we've grown. Very much of a very cost-effective inside sales. Now, when you get to the Googles and Salesforces and Nordstroms of the world, and they have already 500 licenses us, either paid or free, then we usually have more of a, you know, senior sales person that will be involved in those deals. >> To sort of mine those accounts. But it's really all about driving the efficiency of that inbound, and then at some point driving more inbound and sort of getting that flywheel effect. >> Developer adoption, developer adoption. That's the number one driver for everybody in our company. We have a customer success team, developer adoption. You know, just make the developer successful and good things happen to all the other parts of the organization. >> Okay, so that's a key performance indicator. What are the, let's wrap kind of the milestones and the things that you want to accomplish in the next, let's call it 12 months, 18 months? What should we be watching? >> Yeah, so I mean it continues to be the community, right? The community, recruiting more developers around the globe. We're expanding, you know, APJ's becoming a bigger part. And a lot of it is through just our efforts and just building out this community. We now have 20 people, their sole job is to build out, is to continue to build our developer community. Which is, you know, content, you know, information, how to learn, you know, webinars, all these things that are very separate and apart from the commercial side of the business and the community side of the business. So community adoption is a critical measurement for us, you know, yeah, you look at Freemium adoption. And then, you know, new customers. How are we adding new customers and retaining our existing customers? And you know, we have a 95% retention rate. So it's very sticky because you're getting the data feed, is a daily data feed. So it's like, you know, it's not one that you're going to hook on and then stop at any time soon. So you know, those are the measurements. You look at your community, you look at your Freemium, you look at your customer growth, your retention rates, those are all the things that we measure our business by. >> And your big pockets of brain power here, obviously in Boston, kind of CEO's prerogative, you got a big presence in London, right? And also in Israel, is that correct? >> Yeah, I would say we have four hubs and then we have a lot of remote employees. So, you know, Tel Aviv, where a lot of our security expertise is, in London, a lot of engineering. So between London and Tel Aviv is kind of the security teams, the developers are all in the community is kind of there. You know, Boston, is kind of more go to market side of things, and then we have Ottawa, which is kind of where Watchfire started, so a lot of good security experience there. And then, you know, we've, like a lot of modern companies, we hired the best people wherever we can find them. You know, we have some in Sydney, we've got some all around the world. Especially security, where finding really good security talent is a challenge. And so we're always looking for the best and brightest wherever they are. >> Well, Peter, congratulations on the raise, the new role, really, thank you for coming in and sharing with The Cube community. Really appreciate it. >> Well, it's great to be here. Always enjoy the conversations, especially the Patriots, Red Sox, kind of banter back and forth. It's always good. >> Well, how do you feel about that? >> Which one? >> Well, the Patriots, you know, sort of strange that they're not deep into the playoffs, I mean, for us. But how about the Red Sox now? Is it a team of shame? All my friends who were sort of jealous of Boston sports are saying you should be embarrassed, what are your thoughts? >> It's all about Houston, you know? Alex Cora, was one of the assistant coaches at Houston where all the issues are, I'm not sure those issues apply to Boston, but we'll see, TBD. TBD, I am optimistic as usual. I'm a Boston fan making sure that there isn't any spillover from the Houston world. >> Well we just got our Sox tickets, so you know, hopefully, they'll recover quickly, you know, from this. >> They will, they got to get a coach first. >> Yeah, they got to get a coach first. >> We need something to distract us from the Patriots. >> So you're not ready to attach an asterisk yet to 2018? >> No, no. No, no, no. >> All right, I like the optimism. Maybe you made the right call on Tom Brady. >> Did I? >> Yeah a couple years ago. >> Still since we talked what, two in one. And they won one. >> So they were in two, won one, and he threw for what, 600 yards in the first one so you can't, it wasn't his fault. >> And they'll sign him again, he'll be back. >> Is that your prediction? I hope so. >> I do, I do. >> All right, Peter. Always a pleasure, man. >> Great to see you. >> Thank you so much, and thank you for watching everybody, we'll see you next time. (groovy techno music)

>>from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue. Here's your host Still, Minutemen >>Hi and welcome to the Boston area studio. Happy to welcome back two of our Cube alumni, both from Active e o Brian Regan, the C M O of the company. And it took Rommel. Who's the vice president and general manager of Cloud? Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. >>Happy New Year's too great to be here. >>Yeah, 2020 way we're talking about. We don't all have flying cars and some of these things, but there are a lot of exciting things and ever changing in the tech world. We're gonna talk a lot about N. C. Which, of course, is active use announcement. If I heard the sea, it's about clouds, about containers and about copy data management. With course, you know we know act as always quite well, Brian. Let's start with a company update first. Of course, you know, copy data management is where activity really created a category, but all of these new waves of technology that activity is fitting into Well, 2000 >>19 was an incredible year for us, you know, continued accelerating our growth in the market in the enterprise particularly, You know that the secular trends around hybrid and multi cloud really played well to our existing strengths. And 10 c really builds on those strengths will talk more about that. I know in a moment we also saw continued, you know, as digital transformation as as application modernization initiatives to cold. In just about every enterprise, our database capabilities really played again a cz a strength that we could capitalize on to land significant enterprise accounts, get started with them and then really start to expand overall data platform data management platform in those accounts >>s Oh, sure, before we get into the 10 see stuff specifically. But Brian, Brian teed up some of those cloud trends and how I think about data protection. Data management absolutely has changed. You know, I remember a couple years ago we said, Oh, well, you know, people are adopting all these clouds. All of these concerns still exist. You know. It doesn't go away. It's not magically Oh, I did office 3 65 I don't need to think about all the things that I thought about without. Look, when I do public cloud and build new applications. Oh, wait. You know, somebody needs to take care of that data. So bring us inside your customers. The team that's building these products and some of those big trends should >>happen. You're still so happy to be back in the Cube. So 2019 really defined. There were a lot of for enterprises really started moving. Production will look to the cloud multi cloud become a reality for active field way. We're running production workloads on seven o'clock platforms. So the key elements off being infrastructure agnostic wherein active you can do everything in all clark platforms. Basically, infrastructure neutral was a key element. On the other element was a single pane of glass. You could have an Oracle worker running on prime with the logic application running in azure and not know the difference. S o. The seamless mobility of data was the key element. That lot of our enterprises took advantage from elective standpoint on a lot of the 10 see capabilities adds onto those capabilities and you see more of these adoptions happening in 2020. So I think 10 seat eases up absolutely perfectly for that market. >>Yeah, let's talk a little bit about activities, place in the market, that differentiation there, that direct connection with the application and the partner's eyes. Real big piece of it. >>It's a huge piece and something we really not just double triple down on in 2019. Certainly for us our database capabilities, which we believe are really second to none in the industry, we continue to expand and enrich the capabilities, including ASAP Hana obviously already Oracle and sequel server D B two, as well as the linen space databases, the new and no sequel databases. We also understood, and as our customers were talking to us about their application modernization, they were moving Maur of their front and capabilities two containers, and they wanted that the data to come with it a t east temporarily on. So that was a big focus for us as well was making sure that we could bring the data whether it was into a V M, into a container into a physical server into any number of clouds in order to support that application. At that time, it was a critical part of our differentiation. For two dozen 1 19 >>I'd love just a little more on the database piece because you go to Amazon, reinvent and you know, the migrations of databases to the cloud, of course, is a major conversation. You look at Amazon, they have a whole number of their offerings as well, as if you want to use any database out there, they'll let you use it. Course Oracle might charge him or if you're doing it on the Amazon, the Amazon partner. The azure partnership with Oracle was big news in the back and 1/2 of 2019. So when you're working with their customers, you know, databases still central to you know how they run their business and one of the bigger expenses on the books, they're So you know what we look at 2020. You know, what is the landscape specifically from a database? Well, we continue >>to see and in most of our large enterprise accounts that Oracle and sequel servers continue to dominate the majority of the payload of databases. We don't see that changing, although we do see net new applications being built on new database platforms. Thio complement the oracle and sequel server back end. So we are seeing a rise of the bongos and the new and no Sequels out there. We're also seeing Maur consideration of building in the cloud, as opposed to starting on Prem and then potentially leveraging the cloud sort of post facto and in terms of the application architecture's. So our ability to support both the the legacy big iron database platforms as well as the new generation platforms, regardless of application architectural, regardless of the geometry of the application, is a big part of our differentiation >>going forward. >>All right, so let let's Wave hinted about it. But 10 c major announcement. Let's get into how that extends what we've been talking about. >>Absolutely so you know, we've made a lot of the new databases, particularly the no sequel databases, the Mongols and Hannah's first class citizens intensity, which means we understand not just the database. He also he also the ecosystem that the database lives. We all know Hannah's a fairly big database in terms of the number of machines that consumes number off, you know, applications that you use it and toe capture and actually provide value for Hannah. You need to understand where the Honda database lifts and so some of the capabilities we've added in 10 C's to kind of figure out this ecosystem, and when you migrate, you might need the ecosystem, not just the holiday. The peace because you know that is that is a key element. On the second aspect is the containers that that Brian touched on. Now we're seeing legacy data being presented into containers, and there's a bridge too quiet for that. Now. How do you present that bridge containers could be brought up, but they're lifeless unless you give them data. So the actors of bridge ready and you bring up the container using communities of whatever framework you have and be married the data into the container framework. So most organizations, you know, as they evolved from yesterday's architecture to today's architect. And they need this bridge, which helps them navigate that that my creation process and an active field being the data normalization platform is helping them live on both segments, Right? Nobody does us turn the switch off of the old one and move to the new That'll be co exist. That is the key element >>way spent a lot of time over the last couple of years hearing about cloud native architectures and that discussion of data, it is kind of something you need to kind of dig in to understand. I'm glad to hear you talking about, You know, when you talk about storage and container ization, you know where that fits today? Because originally it was only stateless. But now we know we could do state full environment here. But while container ization is, you know, growing at huge leaps and bounds, customers aren't taking their Oracle database and shoving Brian A lot of discussion about the partnerships. I think it was seven. You know, major cloud providers. That activity is there talk a little bit about the common native. The relationships with some >>of those partners? Absolutely. I mean, way made great strides from a go to market standpoint with our cloud partners this past year. Google Cloud is probably our most significant go to market partner. From a cloud standpoint, we've done a lot of joint engineering works in order to support both our existing, uh, software platform as well as our SAS control plane in the Google Cloud. We have landed many significant deals with with Google this past year on dhe. They have been as they continue to really increase their focus on enterprise accounts and both hybrid as well as public cloud sort of architectures. We are hand in glove with them as their backup in D R partner for those club >>workloads. >>Great eso We talked quite a bit about the database peace, but in general, back into the cloud archive in the cloud. What is 10 see specifically an active you, in general, enhance in those environments >>so tense he bring It brings in you know, the key elements of the recovery orchestration. So if I have to bring up, let's say, 500 machines in any club platform, how did I do it? Well, I can go and bring up one machine at a time and take two days to bring it up or with active fuels. Resiliency. Director. You can create a recovery plan and a push pardon Recovery happens, so we've seen a lot of customers adopt that, particularly customers that want to leverage the Google platform for its infrastructure capabilities. Wants an orchestration, that is, that is, that understands the applications that are coming up, so there is a significant benefit from a PR standpoint of the recovery orchestrations will be invested a lot of time and tuning the performance and understanding Google and Amazon and Azure to make sure this was built, right. The other big push we're seeing for the clock platforms ASAP, ASAP, as an enterprise has taken a mission to say, there's no more data centers. Everything is going to the cloud. So an escapee workloads are not the easiest were close to manage. And so they did the the intersection point of S A P and the cloud is very active. Field becomes really valuable because, though, did this data sets by definition or large, their complex and there were distributed. And the D artists of paramount importance because these air crown jewels So so those segments of the R orchestration forward with, you know ASAP and Hannah, which is to get our strength of databases. It's kind of their tense. He really hits, hits, hits a home run >>when we're talking to users in the discussion of multi Cloud in general, one of the challenges is Yoon hee. Different skill sets across. One of those powerful things I've heard from active use really is a normalization across any cloud or even in a cloud. Oh, wait. I was gonna stuck six up again in an archive. That means I'm never going to touch it again. Ingress and egress fees. You know, I have to figure these out or I need toe dedicated engineer to those kind of environments. So it seems that just fundamentally the architecture that you built it active eo is toe help customers really get their arms around those multi cloud >>environments? Absolutely. And I think there are two additional components that really one of which has lived with activity from the very beginning of the company, which is a p a p I. First, the cloud is very much an AP I centric type of operating model on with active fio We don't change the management system were operating model. But in fact we incorporate in eso all of this orchestration that it shook talked about can be actuated via a P I. The second piece, which we really started in 2017 with our eight Dato platform release, is the the consumption and the intelligent consumption of object with 10 see, we've continued to advance our object capabilities. In fact, we published a paper with the SG in late 2019 that talked about mounting 50 terabyte Oracle databases directly out of object with actually increased performance versus the production block >>storage behind it. >>So we have really with 10 C, actually added cashing to even further performance optimized object workloads, which speaks to both the flexibility but also the economic flexibility of being able. Thio contemplate running workloads in the cloud out of object at a lower cost platform without necessarily the compromise of performance that you would normally expect >>absolutely. And like you said, the skill set required. Do I need to put it in object to any reported in block? We can eliminate that right. Be neutralized that to say you want to leverage the cloud, give us your cost point and you can dial the cost up or down, depending on what you see for performance, and we will be the day that back and forth, so that flexibility is enormous for customers. >>That's greater if you talk to anybody that's been in the storage industry for a while, and you want to make them squirm, say the word migration s O. We know how painful it has been if you go talk to any of the triple vendors, they have so many tools and so many service is to help do that in a cloud era. It should be a little bit easier, but it sounds like that's another key piece. Intensity? >>Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, 10 See, you know, hits the home. I think with the A P. I integration. So the other element 2019 Saul, was the scale of deployment effective. You know, when you have to manage hundreds of thousands of machines across different geo's, that is a scale that comes to the data protection that you know, people. Really? You have a seat to actually build for it and and work with it and be sorry in 2019 and 10 See, incorporates a lot of that capabilities as well, making it ask Cloud needed as possible. So basically, around these applications globally. All >>right, uh, I was wondering if you might have a customer example toe really highlight the impact that NBC's having understand if you can't name them specifically, but, uh, yeah, >>well, actually, shook has already talked about 11 customer slash partner. Who is I think still the world's largest software company in the world based out of Germany. And they are powering their enterprise cloud on the data management data protection. Beneath that enterprise cloud across four different hyper scale er's using, active you on. I think they're on record in a weapon. Our earlier in December, talking about their evaluation of pretty much every technology out there on the one that could really deliver on performance at scale across clouds was activity >>on. The key element was they wanted a single platform with a single pane of glass across all platforms, and an active feel was the solution to each other. So >>and certainly I think we credit them and are the rest of our enterprise customers for pushing us to make 10 see more powerful and more a capable across any clout, you know, Ultimately, an inter enterprise is going to make a decision that they've probably already made the decision to incorporate cloud into their enterprise architecture. What we give them is the freedom and the flexibility to choose any cloud. And, by the way, any cloud today that might change tomorrow and having the ability to seamlessly migrate and or convert from cloud eight o'clock be. Is something that active powers as well? >>Yeah, just make sure we're clear as to what's happening there. It's great that you've got flexibility there when we're talking about data and data gravity. Of course, we're not talking about just lifting an entire database land, you know, ignoring the laws of physics there. But it's the flexibility of using a ll These various things, any way Talk about A S, A P, of course, needs to live across all these clouds. But when you talk about an enterprise, you know what is kind of that? That killer use case? Because we said we're not at a point where cloud is not a utility. I don't wake up in the morning and look at the sheet and say, Oh, I'm gonna, you know, use Cloud a versus cloud be s o. You know what is? You know the importance of that flexibility for us >>today. The majority of our business starts with company saying I need to deliver my data faster to my developers or my tester's, or even increasingly, my data scientists and analysts and my data sets have become so large that it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to do that with regularity. So the currency of the data is starting to suffer. That is the first use case for us and that that powering that enterprise transformational initiative around a new application or an updated application based on a historical app using those enterprise databases delivering that seamlessly quickly, regardless of how big the data is still remains our first use case. And then, increasingly, those customers air realizing that they can start to achieve the other benefits of active eo, including I can start to back that up to the cloud. Aiken actually orchestrate recoveries in the cloud. Not just bulk sort of transfer, but actually the entire application stack. And bring that up in the cloud. I can start Thio, take those those data sets and actually amount them into containers for my next generation application. So that starting point of give me my data as quickly as possible, regardless of how big it is, starts to become universal in terms of its applicability for all use cases. >>Yeah, I guess I shook. The last thing I wanna understand from you is in 2019. We saw a lot of large providers putting out their vision for how I manage in this multi cloud environment. You were at the Google Cloud event where Anthros was unveiled. I was at Microsoft ignite when as your ark was unveiled. VM wear has things like tans you out there. So this moldy cloud environment how do I manage across these disperse environments? What? What What are all those move mean to active you on how you look at things. >>And I think you know, the Tennessee release and with the core architecture that if you had in place, which was multiple already and a P I ready. So those are the two elements that are kind of building blocks that you can tie into any one of those construct you talked about. All right, so we've had we have customers, innovated us with Antos. If customers get up service now we have customers doing Vieira with us, right? So there are many, many integration platforms. The latest I saw was an Alexa app, but we were mounting an oracle database on a voice command. So So you know, there's endless possibilities as thes equal systems evolve because active feel stays behind the cowards powering the data delivering the data available if needed on the target. So that is the key element in the neighbor that we see that helps all these other platforms become super successful. >>So, Brian, it sounds very much a hell wind. The big trends that we're seeing here keep partnerships and, you know, meeting your customers where they need to >>pay. Absolutely. We continue Thio play in the enterprise market, where these thes are absolutely top of mind of every CEO and top of their agenda. Onda, we are working hand in glove with them to make sure that our platform not only anticipates their needs but delivers on their current state of needs as well. >>Brian, thank you so much. Congratulations on the 10 sea launch Cloud containers. Copy data management. Look forward to watching your customers and your continued Thanks. As always, Very much. All right, I'm still Minutemen. Lots more coverage here in 2020. Check out the cube dot net for all of it. And thank you for watching the Cube

>> From the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's The Cube. Now, here's your host Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody. Welcome to this Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis we're going to look at recent spending data from the ETR Spending Intentions Survey. We believe tech spending is slowing down. Now, it's not falling off a cliff but it is reverting to pre-2018 spending levels. There's some concern in the bellwethers of specifically financial services and insurance accounts and large telcos. We're also seeing less redundancy. What we mean by that is in 2017 and 2018 you had a lot of experimentation going on. You had a lot of digital initiatives that were going into, not really production, but sort of proof of concept. And as a result you were seeing spending on both legacy infrastructure and emerging technologies. What we're seeing now is more replacements. In other words people saying, "Okay, we're now going into production. We've tried that. We're not going to go with A, we're going to double down on B." And we're seeing less experimentation with the emerging technology. So in other words people are pulling out, actually some of the legacy technologies. And they're not just spraying and praying across the entire emerging technology sector. So, as a result, spending is more focused. As they say, it's not a disaster, but it's definitely some cause for concern. So, what I'd like to do, Alex if you bring up the first slide. I want to give you some takeaways from the ETR, the Enterprise Technology Research Q4 Pulse Check Survey. ETR has a data platform of 4,500 practitioners that it surveys regularly. And the most recent spending intention survey will actually be made public on October 16th at the ETR Webcast. ETR is in its quiet period right now, but they've given me a little glimpse and allowed me to share with you, our Cube audience, some of the findings. So as I say, you know, overall tech spending is clearly slowing, but it's still healthy. There's a uniform slowdown, really, across the board. In virtually all sectors with very few exceptions, and I'll highlight some of the companies that are actually quite strong. Telco, large financial services, insurance. That's rippling through to AMIA, which is, as I've said, is over-weighted in banking. The Global 2000 is looking softer. And also the global public and private companies. GPP is what ETR calls it. They say this is one of the best indicators of spending intentions and is a harbinger for future growth or deceleration. So it's the largest public companies and the largest private companies. Think Mars, Deloitte, Cargo, Coke Industries. Big giant, private companies. We're also seeing a number of changes in responses from we're going to increase to more flat-ish. So, again, it's not a disaster. It's not falling off the cliff. And there are some clear winners and losers. So adoptions are really reverting back to 2018 levels. As I said, replacements are arising. You know, digital transformation is moving from test everything to okay, let's go, let's focus now and double-down on those technologies that we really think are winners. So this is hitting both legacy companies and the disrupters. One of the other key takeaways out of the ETR Survey is that Microsoft is getting very, very aggressive. It's extending and expanding its TAM further into cloud, into collaboration, into application performance management, into security. We saw the Surface announcement this past week. Microsoft is embracing Android. Windows is not the future of Microsoft. It's all these other markets that they're going after. They're essentially building out an API platform and focusing in on the user experience. And that's paying off because CIOs are clearly more comfortable with Microsoft. Okay, so now I'm going to take you through some themes. I'm going to make some specific vendor comments, particularly in Cloud, software, and infrastructure. And then we'll wrap. So here's some major themes that really we see going on. Investors still want growth. They're punishing misses on earnings and they're rewarding growth companies. And so you can see on this slide that it's really about growth metrics. What you're seeing is companies are focused on total revenue, total revenue growth, annual recurring revenue growth, billings growth. Companies that maybe aren't growing so fast, like Dell, are focused on share gains. Lately we've seen pullbacks in the software companies and their stock prices really due to higher valuations. So, there's some caution there. There's actually a somewhat surprising focus given the caution and all the discussion about, you know, slowing economy. There's some surprising lack of focus on key performance indicators like cash flow. A few years ago, Splunk actually stopped giving, for example, cash flow targets. You don't see as much focus on market capitalization or shareholders returns. You do see that from Oracle. You see that last week from the Dell Financial Analyst Meeting. I talked about that. But it's selective. You know these are the type of metrics that Oracle, Dell, VMware, IBM, HPE, you know generally HP Inc. as well will focus on. Another thing we see is the Global M&A across all industries is back to 2016 levels. It basically was down 16% in Q3. However, well and that's by the way due to trade wars and other uncertainties and other economic slowdowns and Brexit. But tech M&A has actually been pretty robust this year. I mean, you know take a look at some examples. I'll just name a few. Google with Looker, big acquisitions. Sales Force, huge acquisition. A $15 billion acquisition of Tableau. It also spent over a billion dollars on Click software. Facebook with CTRL-labs. NVIDIA, $7 billion acquisition of Mellanox. VMware just plunked down billion dollars for Carbon Black and its own, you know, sort of pivotal within the family. Splunk with a billion dollar plus acquisition of SignalFx. HP over a billion dollars with Cray. Amazon's been active. Uber's been active. Even nontraditional enterprise tech companies like McDonald's trying to automate some of the drive-through technology. Mastercard with Nets. And of course the stalwart M&A companies Apple, Intel, Microsoft have been pretty active as well as many others. You know but generally I think what's happening is valuations are high and companies are looking for exits. They've got some cool tech so they're putting it out there. That you know, hey now's the time to buy. They want to get out. That maybe IPO is not the best option. Maybe they don't feel like they've got, you know, a long-term, you know, plan that is going to really maximize shareholder value so they're, you know, putting forth themselves for M&A today. And so that's been pretty robust. And I would expect that's going to continue for a little bit here as there are, again, some good technology companies out there. Okay, now let's get into, Alex if you pull up the next slide of the Company Outlook. I want to start with Cloud. Cloud, as they say here, continues it's steady march. I'm going to focus on the Big 3. Microsoft, AWS, and Google. In the ETR Spending Surveys they're all very clearly strong. Microsoft is very strong. As I said it's expanding it's total available market. It's into collaboration now so it's going after Slack, Box, Dropbox, Atlassian. It's announced application performance management capabilities, so it's kind of going after new relic there. New SIM and security products. So IBM, Splunk, Elastic are some targets there. Microsoft is one of the companies that's gaining share overall. Let me talk about AWS. Microsoft is growing faster in Cloud than AWS, but AWS is much, much larger. And AWS's growth continues. So it's not as strong as 2018 but it's stronger, in fact, much stronger than its peers overall in the marketplace. AWS appears to be very well positioned according to the ETR Surveys in database and AI it continues to gain momentum there. The only sort of weak spot is the ECS, the container orchestration area. And that looks a little soft likely due to Kubernetes. Drop down to Google. Now Google, you know, there's some strength in Google's business but it's way behind in terms of market share, as you all know, Microsoft and AWS. You know, its AI and machine learning gains have stalled relative to Microsoft and AWS which continue to grow. Google's strength and strong suit has always been analytics. The ETR data shows that its holdings serve there. But there's deceleration in data warehousing, and even surprisingly in containers given, you know, its strength in contributing to the Kubernetes project. But the ETR 3 Year Outlook, when they do longer term outlook surveys, shows GCP, Google's Cloud platform, gaining. But there's really not a lot of evidence in the existing data, in the near-term data to show that. But the big three, you know, Cloud players, you know, continue to solidify their position. Particularly AWS and Microsoft. Now let's turn our attention to enterprise software. Just going to name a few. ETR will have an extensive at their webcast. We'll have an extensive review of these vendors, and I'll pick up on that. But I just want to pick out a few here. Some of the enterprise software winners. Workday continues to be very, very strong. Especially in healthcare and pharmaceutical. Salesforce, we're seeing a slight deceleration but it's pretty steady. Very strong in Fortune 100. And Einstein, its AI offering appears to be gaining as well. Some of the acquisitions Mulesoft and Tableu are also quite strong. Demandware is another acquisition that's also strong. The other one that's not so strong, ExactTarget is somewhat weakening. So Salesforce is a little bit mixed, but, you know, continues to be pretty steady. Splunk looks strong. Despite some anecdotal comments that point to pricing issues, and I know Splunk's been working on, you know, tweaking its pricing model. And maybe even some competition. There's no indication in the ETR data yet that Splunk's, you know, momentum is attenuating. Security as category generally is very, very strong. And it's lifting all ships. Splunk's analytics business is showing strength is particularly in healthcare and pharmaceuticals, as well as financial services. I like the healthcare and pharmaceuticals exposure because, you know, in a recession healthcare will, you know, continue to do pretty well. Financial services in general is down, so there's maybe some exposure there. UiPath, I did a segment on RPA a couple weeks ago. UiPath continues its rapid share expansion. The latest ETR Survey data shows that that momentum is continuing. And UiPath is distancing itself in the spending surveys from its broader competition as well. Another company we've been following and I did a segment on the analytics and enterprise data warehousing sector a couple weeks ago is Snowflake. Snowflake continues to expand its share. Its slightly slower than its previous highs, which were off the chart. We shared with you its Net Score. Snowflake and UiPath have some of the highest Net Scores in the ETR Survey data of 80+%. Net Score remembers. You take the we're adding the platform, we're spending more and you subtract we're leaving the platform or spending less and that gives you the Net Score. Snowflake and UiPath are two of the highest. So slightly slower than previous ties, but still very very strong. Especially in larger companies. So that's just some highlights in the software sector. The last sector I want to focus on is enterprise infrastructure. So Alex if you'd bring that up. I did a segment at the end of Q2, post Q2 looking at earning statements and also some ETR data on the storage spending segment. So I'll start with Pure Storage. They continue to have elevative spending intentions. Especially in that giant public and private, that leading indicator. There are some storage market headwinds. The storage market generally is still absorbing that all flash injection. I've talked about this before. There's still some competition from Cloud. When Pure came out with its earnings last quarter, the stock dropped. But then when everybody else announced, you know, negative growth or, in Dell's case, Dell's the leader, they were flat. Pure Storage bounced back because on a relative basis they're doing very well. The other indication is Pure storage is very strong in net app accounts. Net apps mix, they don't call them out here but we'll do some further analysis down the road of net apps. So I would expect Pure to continue to gain share and relative to the others in that space. But there are some headwinds overall in the market. VMware, let's talk about VMware. VMware's spending profile, according to ETR, looks like 2018. It's still very strong in Fortune 1000, or 100 rather, but weaker in Fortune 500 and the GPP, the global public and private companies. That's a bit of a concern because GPP is one of the leading indicators. VMware on Cloud on AWS looks very strong, so that continues. That's a strategic area for them. Pivotal looks weak. Carbon Black is not pacing with CrowdStrike. So clearly VMware has some work to do with some of its recent acquisitions. It hasn't completed them yet. But just like the AirWatch acquisition, where AirWatch wasn't the leader in that space, really Citrix was the leader. VMware brought that in, cleaned it up, really got focused. So that's what they're going to have to do with Carbon Black and Security, which is going to be a tougher road to hoe I would say than end user computing and Pivotal. So we'll see how that goes. Let's talk about Dell, Dell EMC, Dell Technologies. The client side of the business is holding strong. As I've said many times server and storage are decelerating. We're seeing market headwinds. People are spending less on server and storage relative to some of the overall initiatives. And so, that's got to bounce back at some point. People are going to still need compute, they're still going to need storage, as I say. Both are suffering from, you know, the Cloud overhang. As well, storage there was such a huge injection of flash it gave so much headroom in the marketplace that it somewhat tempered storage demand overall. Customers said, "Hey, I'm good for a while. Cause now I have performance headroom." Whereas before people would buy spinning discs, they buy the overprovision just to get more capacity. So, you know, that was kind of a funky value proposition. The other thing is VxRail is not as robust as previous years and that's something that Dell EMC talks about as, you know, one of the market share leaders. But it's showing a little bit of softness. So we'll keep an eye on that. Let's talk about Cisco. Networking spend is below a year ago. The overall networking market has been, you know, somewhat decelerating. Security is a bright spot for Cisco. Their security business has grown in double digits for the last couple of quarters. They've got work to do in multi-Cloud. Some bright spots Meraki and Duo are both showing strength. HP, talk about HPE it's mixed. Server and storage markets are soft, as I've said. But HPE remains strong in Fortune 500 and that critical GPP leading indicator. You know Nimble is growing, but maybe not as fast as it used to be and Simplivity is really not as strong as last year. So we'd like to see a little bit of an improvement there. On the bright side, Aruba is showing momentum. Particularly in Fortune 500. I'll make some comments about IBM, even though it's really, you know, this IBM enterprise infrastructure. It's really services, software, and yes some infrastructure. The Red Hat acquisition puts it firmly in infrastructure. But IBM is also mixed. It's bouncing back. IBM Classic, the core IBM is bouncing back in Fortune 100 and Fortune 500 and in that critical GPP indicator. It's showing strength, IBM, in Cloud and it's also showing strength in services. Which is over half of its business. So that's real positive. Its analytics and EDW software business are a little bit soft right now. So that's a bit of a concern that we're watching. The other concern we have is Red Hat has been significantly since the announcement of the merger and acquisition. Now what we don't know, is IBM able to inject Red Hat into its large service and outsourcing business? That might be hidden in some of the spending intention surveys. So we're going to have to look at income statement. And the public statements post earnings season to really dig into that. But we'll keep an eye on that. The last comment is Cloudera. Cloudera once was the high-flying darling. They are hitting all-time lows. They made the acquisition of Hortonworks, which created some consolidation. Our hope was that would allow them to focus and pick up. CEO left. Cloudera, again, hitting all-time lows. In particular, AWS and Snowflake are hurting Cloudera's business. They're particularly strong in Cloudera's shops. Okay, so let me wrap. Let's give some final thoughts. So buyers are planning for a slowdown in tech spending. That is clear, but the sky is not falling. Look we're in the tenth year of a major tech investment cycle, so slowdown, in my opinion, is healthy. Digital initiatives are really moving into higher gear. And that's causing some replacement on legacy technologies and some focus on bets. So we're not just going to bet on every new, emerging technology, were going to focus on those that we believe are going to drive business value. So we're moving from a try-everything mode to a more focused management style. At least for a period of time. We're going to absorb the spend, in my view, of the last two years and then double-down on the winners. So not withstanding the external factors, the trade wars, Brexit, other geopolitical concerns, I would expect that we're going to have a period of absorption. Obviously it's October, so the Stock Market is always nervous in October. You know, we'll see if we get Santa Claus rally going into the end of the year. But we'll keep an eye on that. This is Dave Vellante for Cube Insights powered by ETR. Thank you for watching this breaking analysis. We'll see you next time. (upbeat tech music)

>> From the Silicon Angle Media Office, in Boston Massachusetts, it's theCUBE. Now, here's your host Dave Vellante. >> Hi everybody, welcome to this breaking analysis where we try to provide you some insights on theCUBE. My name is Dave Vellante. I'm here with Jim Kobielus who was up today, and Jim we were just off of the VMworld 2019. Big show, lot of energy, lot of announcements. I specifically want to focus on containers and the impact that containers are having on VMware, specifically the broader ecosystem and the industry at large. So, first of all, what was you take on VMworld 2019? >> Well, my take was that VMware is growing fast, and they're investing in the future, which is fairly clearly cloud and native computing on containers with Kubernetes and all that. But really that's the future and so, what VMware is doing is they're making significant bets that containers will rule the roost in cloud computing and application infrastructures going forward. But in fact virtual machines, VMs hypervisors are hotter than ever and that was well established last week by the fact that the core predominate announcement last week was a VMware Tanzu, which is not yet a production solution, but is in a limited preview, which is the new platform for coexistence of containers and vSphere. A container run time embedded in vSphere, so that customers can run containers in a highly-iso workloads, in a highly isolated VM environment. In other words, VMware is saying, we're saying to their customers, "You don't have to migrate away from VMs "until you're good and ready. "You can continue to run whatever containers "you build on vShpere, "but we more than encourage you to continue to run VMs "until you're good and ready "to migrate, if ever." >> All right. So, I want to come back and unpack that a little bit, but does your data, does your analysis, when you're talking to customers and the industry at large, is there any evidence from what you see that containers are hurting VMware's business? >> I don't get any sense that containers are hurting VMware's business. I get the strong sense that containers, they've just of course acquired Pivotal, a very additive to the revenue mix at VMware. And VMware, most of their announcements last week were in fact all around Kubernetes, and containers, and products that are very much for those customers who are going deep down the container road. >> So that was a setup question. >> You've got lots of products for them. >> So that was a setup question. So I have some data on this. >> Go ahead >> Right answer. So, I want to show you this. So, Alex, if you wouldn't mind bringing up that slide. And we shared this with you last week when we were prepping for VMworld. This is data from Enterprise Technology Research ETR, and they have a panel of 4500 end user customers that they go out and do spending surveys with them. So, what this shows is, this is container customers spending on VMware. So, you can see it goes back to early January. Now it's a little deceiving here. You see that big spike, but what it shows it that, A, that big spike is the number of shared customers. So, you really didn't have many customers back then that were doing both containers and VMware that ETR found. But as the N gets bigger, 186, 248, 257, 361, across those 461 customers, those are the shared customers in the green. And you can see that it's kind of a flat line. It's holding very well in the high 30's percent range, which is their sort of proprietary metric. So, there's absolutely no evidence, Jim, that containers, thus far anyway, are hurting VMware's business. Which of course was the narrative, containers are going to kill VMware, no evidence of that. But then why would they acquire Pivotal? Are they concerned about the future, what's your-- >> Well, they're concerned about cross selling their existing customer base who are primarily on V's, fearing the hypervisors, cross selling them on the new world of Kubernetes base products for cloud computing, and so forth and so on. In other words it's all about how do they grow their revenue base? VMware's been around for more than 20 years now. They rule the roost on the hypervisors. Where do they go from here, in terms of their product mix? Well, Kubernetes and beyond that, things like serverless will clearly be in the range of the things that they could add on. Their customers could add on to their existing deploys. I mean, look at Pivotal. Pivotal has a really strong Kubernetes distribution, which of course VMware co-developed with them. Pivotal also has a strong functions as a service backplane, the Pivotal function service for, serverless environments. So, this acquisition of Pivotal very much positions VMware to capitalize on those opportunities to sell those products when that market actually develops. But I see some evidence that virtual machines are going like gang busters in terms of customer deployments. Last week on theCUBE at VMworld, Mark Lohmeyer who's an SVP at a VMware for one of their cloud business unit, said that in the last year, for example, customers who are using a VMware cloud on AWS, VMware grew the customer base by 400% last year, and grew the number of VMs running in VMware, cloud, and AWS by 900%, which would imply that on average each customer more than doubled the number of VMs they're running on that particular cloud service. That means VMs are very much relevant now, and probably will be going forward. And why is that? That's a good question, we can debate that. >> Well, so the naysayers at VMworld in the audience were tweeting that, "Oh, I though we started Pivotal. "We launched Pivotal so that we didn't have to run VMs on, "or run containers on VMs, "so we could run them on bare metal." Are people running containers on virtual machines? >> Well, they are, yes. In fact, there's a broad range of industry initiatives, not just Tanzu at VMware, to do just that. To run containers on VMs. I mean, there is the KubeVirt, open source project over at CNCF, that's been going for a couple years now. But also, Google has Gvisor, Intel has the Kata containers initiative, I believe that there are a few others. Oh yeah, AWS with Firecracker, last year's reinvent. All this would imply, strongly indicate that these large cloud and tech vendors wouldn't be investing heavily into convergence of containers and VMs and hypervisors, if there weren't a strong demand from customers for hybrid environments where they're going to run both stacks as it were in parallel, why? Well, one of the strong advantages of VMs is workload isolation at the hardware level, which is something that typically container run times don't offer. For example, the workload isolation seems to be one of the strong features that VMware's touting for Tanzu going forward. >> So, VMware is--the centerpiece of VMware's strategy is obviously multicloud, Kubernetes as a lynch pin to enable running applications on different platforms. Will, in your opinion, and of course VMware is hard core enterprise, right? Will VMware, two things, will they be able to attract the developers, number one. And number two, will those developers build on top of VMware's platform or are they going to look to their cloud? >> That's a very important question. Last week at VMworld, I didn't get a sense that VMware has a strong developer story. I think that's a really open issue going forward for them. Why would a developer turn to VMware as their core solution provider when they don't offer a strong workbench for building these hybridized VM, /container/serverless applications that seem to be springing up all over? AWS and Microsoft and Google are much stronger in that area with their respective portfolios. >> So, I guess the obvious answer there is Pivotal is their answer to the developer quandary. >> Yes. >> And so, let's talk about that. So, Pivotal was struggling. I talked last week in my analysis, you saw the IPO price and then it dipped down, it never made it back up. Essentially the price that VMware paid the public shareholders for Pivotal was about half of it's initial IPO price, so, okay. So, the stock was struggling, the company didn't have the kind of momentum that, I think, that it wanted, so VMware picks it up. Can VMware fold in Pivotal, and use its go-to-market, and its largess to really prop up Pivotal and make it a leader? >> Well, possibly because Cloud Foundry, Pivotal Cloud Foundry could be the lynch pin of VMware's emerging developer story, if they position in that and really invest in the product in that regard. So yeah, in other words this could very much make VMware a go-to-vendor for the developers who are building the new generation of applications that present serverless functional interfaces, but will have containers under the cover, but also have VMs under the cover providing strong workload isolation in a multi-tenant environment. That would be the promise. >> Now, a couple things. You mentioned Microsoft, of course as you're in the clouding, and Google. The ETR data that I dug into when I wanted to understand, better understand multicloud. Who's got the multicloud momentum? Well, guess who has the most multicloud momentum? It's the cloud guys. Now, AWS doesn't specifically say they participate in multicloud. Certainly their marketing suggest that multicloud is for somebody else, that really they want to have uni-cloud. Whereas Google, and as you're kind of embracing multicloud and Kubernetes specifically, now of course AWS has a Kubernetes offering, but I suspect it's not something that they want to promote hard in the market place because it makes it easier for people to get off of AWS. Your thoughts on multicloud generally, but specifically Kubernetes, and containers as it relates to the big cloud providers. >> Yeah, well my thoughts on multicloud generally is that multicloud is the strategy of the second tier cloud vendors, obviously. If they can't dominate the entire space, at least they can maintain a strong, provide a strong connective tissue for the clouds that actually are deployed in their customer's environments. So, in other words, the Ciscos of the world, the VMwares of the world, IBM. In other words, these are not among the top tier of the public cloud players, hence where do they go to remain relevant? Well, they provide the connective tissue, and they provide the virtualized networking backbones, and they provide the AI ops that enables end-to-end automated monitoring management of the entire mesh. The whole notion of a mesh architecture is something that grew up with IBM and Google for lots of reasons, especially due to the fact that they themselves, as vendors, didn't dominate the public cloud. >> Well, so I agree with you. The only issue I would take is I think Microsoft is a leader in public cloud, but because it has a big On-Prem presence, it's in its best interest to push containers and Kubernetes, and so forth. But you're right about the others. Cisco doesn't have a public cloud, VMware doesn't have a public cloud, IBM has a public cloud but it's really small market share, and so it's in those companies, and Google is behind, but it's in those companies best interest really to promote multicloud, try to use it as a bull work against AWS, who's got an obviously awesome market momentum. The other thing that's interesting in the ETR data when I poke in there, it seems like there are more people looking at Google. Now maybe that's 'cause they have such strong strength in data and analytics, maybe it's 'cause they're looking for a hedge on AWS, but the spending data suggests that more and more people are kicking the tires, and more than kicking the tires on Google. Who of course is obviously behind Kubernetes and that container movement, and open source, your thoughts? >> Yeah, well, many ways, you have to think, that Google has developed the key pieces of the new stack for application development in the multicloud. Clearly they developed Kubernetes, its open source, and also they developed TensorFlow open sources, it's the predominant AI workbench essentially for the new generation of AI driven applications, which is everything. But also, if you look at Google developed Node JS for web applications and so forth. So really, Google now is the go-to-vendor for the new generation of open source application development, and increasingly DevOps in a multicloud environment, running over Istio meshes and so forth. So, I think that's, so, look at one of the announcements last weekend at VMworld. VMware and NVIDIA, their announcement of their collaboration, their joint offering to enable AI workloads, training workloads to run in GPUs in an optimal high performance fashion within a distributive of VMware cloud end-to-end. So really, I think VMware recognizes that the new workloads in the multicloud are predominately, increasingly AI workloads. And in order to, as the market goes towards those kinds of workloads, VMware very much recognizes they need to have a strong developer play, and they do with NVIDIA in a sense. Very much so because NVIDIA with the rapid framework and so forth, and NVIDIA being the predominant GPU vendor, very much is a very strategic partner for VMware as they're going forward, as they hope to line up the AI developers. But Google still is the vendor to beat as regards to AI developers of the world, in that regard, so-- >> So we're entering a world we sometimes call the post-virtual machine world. John Furrier is kind of tongue and cheek on a play on web tudauto. He calls it cloud tudauto, which is a world of multiple clouds. As I've said many times, I'm not sure multicloud is necessarily a coherent strategy yet as opposed to sort of a multi-vendor situation, Shadow IT, >> Yes. >> Lines on business, et cetera. But Jim, thanks very much-- >> Sure. >> For coming on and breaking down the container market, and VMworld 2019. It was great to see you. >> Likewise. >> All right, thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Jim Kobielus. We'll see you next time on theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue now Here's your host Day Volonte. >> Hello, everyone, this is David lot. They fresh fresh off the red eye from VM World 2019. And what I wanted to do was share with you some analysis that I've done with our friends at E. T. R. Enterprise Technology Research. We've begun introducing you to some of their data. They have this awesome database 4500 panel, a panel of 4500 end users end customers, and they periodically go out and do spending surveys. They've given me access to that spending data and what I wanted to do because because you had a number of companies announced this this quarter, I wanted to do a storage drill down so pure. Announced in late July, Del just announced yesterday late August. Netapp was mid August. HP was last week again late August, and IBM was mid July. So you have all these companies, some of which are pure plays like pure netapp. Others of you know, big systems companies on DSO. But nonetheless, I wanted to squint through the data and share with you the storage spending snapshot for the second half of 2019. So let's start with the macro. >> What you heard on the conference calls was some concern about the economy. There's no question that the tariffs are on people's minds, particularly those with large exposure exposure in China. I mean, Del obviously sells a lot of PCs in China, so they're very much concerned about that. IBM does a lot of business there, pure, really. 70% appears business roughly is North America, so they're not as exposed so But the macro is probably looks like about 2% GDP growth for the quarter i. D. C. Has the overall tech market growing at two ex GDP. Interestingly, a Gartner analyst told me in May on the Cube that there is no correlation between GDP and I t spend, which surprised me. Some people disagree with that, but But that surprised me. But nonetheless, we we still look at GDP and look at that ratio. Sometimes the other macro is component costs for years. For the storage business the last several years, NAND pricing has been a headwind. Supply has been down, it's kept prices up. It has kept all flash arrays more expensive relative to some of the spinning disc spread the brethren something that we thought would attenuate sooner. It finally has. Nan pricing is now a tailwind, so prices air coming down. What that does is it opens up new workloads that we're really kind of the domain of spinning disk before big data kind of workloads is an example. Not exclusively big data, but it just opens up more workloads for storage companies, particularly Flash Cos The other big macro we're seeing is people shifting to subscription models. They want to bring that cloud like model to the data wherever two lives on Prem in ah, hybrid environment in a public cloud and company storage companies trying to be that that data management plane across clouds, whether on prime it. And that's a That's a big deal for a lot of these companies. I'll talk a little bit more about that, so you're seeing this vision of a massively parallel, scalable distributed system play out >> where >> data stays where it lives. Edge on Prem Public Cloud and storage is really a key part of that. Obviously, that's where the data lives, but you're not seeing data move across clouds so much. What you are seeing is metadata, move and compute. Move to the data so that type of architecture is being set up. It's supported by architecture's, not the least of which are all flash, and so I want to get into it. >> Now I want to share with you some data on this slide. If you wouldn't mind bringing it up. Alex on spending momentum. So the title size spending moment of pure leads, the storage packs and what this shows is the vendor on the left hand side. And it essentially looks at the breakdown of the spending survey where e t r ask the buyers of the different companies products. What percent of the spending is going to go toward replacing? They're gonna replace the vendor. Are they gonna decrease? Spend. That's the bright red is replace. The sort of pinkish is decreased, the spending. The gray is flat. The sort of evergreen forest green is increase in the lime. Green is ad, so if you take the lime green in the forest, green ad and the grow on you subtract the rest. You get the net score, so the higher the net score, the better. you can see here that pure storage has the highest net score by far 48%. I'll show you some data later. That correlates to that when we pull out some of the data from the income statements. >> So this is Ah, the >> July 2019 spending intention surveys specifically asking relative to the second half what the spending intentions are. So this looks good for pure on again. I'll show you Cem, Cem Cem Income State income statement data that really affirms this Hewlett Packard Enterprise actually was pretty strong in the spending survey. Particularly nimble is growing HP Overall, the storage business was was down a little bit, I think, three points, but nimble was up 28%. So you're seeing some spending activity there. Netapp did not have a great quarter. They were down substantially. I'll show you that in a minute. On dhe, it looks like they've got some work to do. Deli M. C. I had a flat quarter. Dell has a such a huge install base. They're everywhere on DSO. Everybody wants a piece of their pie. Del. After the merger of the acquisition of the emcee, their storage share declined. They then bounce back. They had a much, much stronger year last year, and now it's sort of a dogfight with the rest. IBM IBM is in a major cycle shift. IBM storage businesses is heavily tied to its mainframe businesses. Mainframe business was way, way down, its overall systems. Business was down, even though power was up a little bit. But the mainframe is what drives the systems business, and it drags along a lot of storage. IBM has got a new mainframe announcement that it's got to get out. It's got a new high end storage announcement that it's got to get out, and it's really relying on that. So you can see here from the E T. R data, you know, pure way out ahead of the pack continues to gain share about over 1000 respondents to this. So a lot of shared accounts by shared accounts mean the number of accounts that that actually have some combination of multiple storage vendors. And so they were able to answer this 1068 respondents pure the clear winner here. Now let's put this into context. So the next slide I want to show you some of the key performance indicators from the June quarter off the income statements. >> So again you see, I get the vendor. The revenue for the quarter of the year to year growth for that quarter relative to last year. The gross margin in the free cash flow, just some of the key performance indicators that I'd like to look at. So look at pure Let's go, Let's go to the third column Look at growth pure 28% growth. Del flat 0% for this is just for storage. There's a storage growth. NETAPP down 16% end up in a bad quarter, HP down 3%. IBM down 21% Do due to the cycle that I discussed, You see the revenue, um, pure, growing very, very fast. But you know, from a small base or at 396 million versus compared that to Dell's 4.2 billion net APs 1,000,000,000 plus H p e. Almost a billion in IBM not nearly as large. And then look at the gross margin line. Pure is the industry's leading gross margin. It's just slightly above 69%. Dell is a blended that Asterix is a blended gross margin, so it includes PCs, servers, service's of V M wear, everything and, of course, storage. So now, when dehl was a public company before it went private, it's gross. Margins were in the high teens. So Del is in gross margin heaven with with both E, M C and V M wear now as part of its portfolio NetApp high gross margins of 67%. But that gross margin is largely driven by its gross margins from software and maintenance. And so that's a screen considerable contributor. Their product gross margins air in the mid fifties, kind of where I think E. M. C. Probably is these days. And when the emcee was a public company, it's gross. Margins were in the mid sixties, but then, as it was before, went private. I think it was dipping into the high fifties as I recall you CHP again, that's a blended gross margin, just roughly around 34%. I don't have as much visibility on their their storage gross margins. I would I would say they are below, in my view, what DMC and net out well below what Netapp would be on then IBM. That's again blended gross margin includes hardware. Software service is 47.4% probably half or more of IBM businesses. Professional service is on. IBM has, of course, a large software business as well. So and then the free cash flow you can see pure crushing it from the standpoint of of gaining share, I mean way, way ahead of the other market players, but only 14 million in free cash flow. So coming from a much, much smaller base, however pure, is purely focused on storage. So there are Andy. All their R and D is going into that storage space. DEL. Free cash flow very large. 3.4 billion that again is across the entire company. Net App. You can see 278 million h p e 648 million great quarter for HP from a free cash flow standpoint, I think year to date they're probably 838 140 million. So big Big quarter. For them. An IBM A 2.4 billion again. Dell, HP, IBM. That's across the company, as is the gross margin. So the the spending data from E. T. R. Really shows us that pure, strong Aziz showed you that very high net score and the intentions look strong, so I would suspect pure is going to continue to lead in the market share game. I don't see that changing. Certainly there's no evidence in the data. I think I think everybody else is in a sort of a dogfight del holding firm, you know, 0%. You'd like to see a little bit of growth out of that, but I think Del is actually, you know, Dell's key metric is, Are we growing faster than the market? That's that's they're sort of a primary criterion in metric for Dell is to grow faster than the overall market because that means you're growing some share. I think Del is comfortable with that. Della's gross margins actually were helped this this quarter by the fact that Dell server business was down 12%. There was a higher storage mix, so it propped up the margin a little bit. But again, generally speaking, it looks like pure is the market share winner here, but much, much smaller than the other guys. HB limbo very strong, and it shows up in the survey data from E T. R. And an IBM just needs to get a new product cycle out. So we'll come back. >> We'll take a look at this in in in in January and see how you know what it looked like and will continue to fall. Obviously, the income statement and the public reporting pure accelerate is coming up next month. Justin in mid September. I have no doubt, you know, pure has been first in a lot of different areas, right? They were first really all flash Ray. The only all flash. You're a company that ever reached escape velocity. They were they in Nutanix for the first kind of new $1,000,000,000 companies that people said would never have a billion dollar company. Pure is a pure play storage company, you know? Well, over a billion. Now, you know, they were first with that evergreen model. They made a lot of play there. You know, the first with envy, Emmy and first with the Nvidia relationships with Superior likes to be first. I have no doubt and accelerate next month down in Austin, curious that they picked Austin in Dell's backyard. I have no doubt that they're gonna have some other firsts at that show. Cuba be there watching just off of the emerald, the other big player here. Of course, that I'm not showing his v. San visa is very, very strong. You know, the D. E. T. Our data shows that, and certainly the data from the income statement shows of'em were NSX, the networking products, their cell phone to find network in their self defined storage of the the the V San. Very, very strong Pat Girl singer on the Cube. We asked him last week, Thio, take us through. So if someone has big memories and one of them was sort of East san, Excuse me. One of them was V San, and the board meeting at with Joe Tucci was on the Vienna where board really put a lot of pressure on Pat's and you can't do this to me. It's funny. Emcee had the shackles on the M, where for a number of years, but the shackles are off and visa is very, very strong. So these are some of the things we're keeping an eye on. Thanks for watching everybody busy day Volante, Cuban sites. We'll see you next time

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue now Here's your host Day Volonte >> Hybrid. Welcome to this special edition of Cube Insights. This is the Cubes 10th year at VM World and leading up >> to V M World. >> We wanted to provide some data in some analysis to you all, and we're working with our partners at E. T. R Enterprise Technology Research. We first introduced you to them when IBM consummated the Red Hat acquisition and they provided some data. E T. R is affirmed. That does really detailed and fast ongoing data. They have, ah, large panel of end customers that they talked to about spending intentions, covering virtually every company in the Enterprise. It's it's great stuff. We reached out to them and came up with a number of questions that we wanted to address around Of'em World and VM where, so let me just start by showing you the questions that we ask them to help us with. And we did essentially what I call drill down survey. So we took their existing data sets. They just did a survey. They completed one in July on spending intentions for the second half of the year combined that, with all the time Siri's data that they had. So these are the questions that really are top of mind for I t decision makers in our community. First of all, what's the appetite for VM? We're spending the second half of 2019. We'll share some data on that. There's a second point is there's narrative out there that that containers are going to kill the M. Where, well, is that true? What is the day to say? How about Multi Cloud? It's the hot topic who was best positioned in multi cloud not only within the VM, where ecosystem but overall, obviously, the M, where has designs on multi cloud and is considered an early potential leader? How about NSX when VM wear but nice era? It changed the game on networking, changed their relationship with Cisco. How is Ennis Ex impacting spending on Cisco? Particularly, obviously a networking. The fifth question that we wanted to address is how is public cloud affecting the M where spend we know public cloud is growing faster than on Prem. What's the impact on the M wear? And then finally it was announced in the press that VM wear was going to acquire Pivotal. Why would that be all right? So let's get into it. The first thing that I want to address is the first question in spending intention. So this slide really shows the results of the second half survey. It's 600 >> and >> 93 respondents representing almost $300 billion in spending power. And so it's actually they were asked what you're spending intention intentions For the second half of 2019 you could see 41% of the respondents said they're going to spend Maur, and only 7% said they're gonna spend less. About 45% said >> they gonna hold firm >> small number 5%. So we're gonna add new and only a tiny infant testable. 2% said they were gonna replace the anywhere, so that's pretty good for an incumbent. And essentially it Sze holding serve and maybe doing a little bit. But even better than holding serve on. So So we saw. That is very positive. The next question that we want to address is the narrative of containers will kill the M, where we asked Pat Gelsinger about that on the Cube years ago, he said, Hey, we're gonna use this as a tail wind. We're gonna embrace containers. So the bottom line is there's very little evidence that containers are hurting the M where let alone killing the end. Where this is a portion of the survey, about 461 respondents on you can see that you know, the big big blip early on back in July 27. Dean. Big uptick in spending, and since then it's been relatively stable. But the important point here is the number of shared accounts that we went to essentially container customers and asked them about their VM wear. Spend. I say we eat. TR did. This is what they do on an ongoing basis, and you could see the number of shared accounts back in 17 was only eight. But as you go to the right hand side, the more recent surveys you're talking about 361 shared accounts of the data sample got much bigger. No evidence that the M where is being negatively impacted by containers kind of affirming the assertion of Pat Gelsinger. Let's talk about multi club. I have said that multi cloud to date has largely been a symptom of multi vendor It's cos acquiring Cloud Technologies for specific workloads. Its shadow i t. It's pockets of cloud activity versus a coherent strategy to manage across multiple clouds. True Hybrid Cloud. We're in the early stages, so the data here, in our view, shows that multi cloud really is jump ball. Um, Interestingly, however, Microsoft and Google is showing momentum. So with this slide shows is the cloud spending intentions. And we picked, you know, the top five players there, that air sort of angling around multi cloud ghoul with Antos. Clearly Microsoft coming from its large software estate of V M. Where, of course, which many believer are early favorite Red Hat with the IBM acquisition and Cisco. So what's interesting here is Google and Microsoft clearly have a lot of momentum kind of mind share in the market place, and not a lot of hard core spending going on and multi cloud. Everybody has multi clouds, but in terms of spending on specific products, does like Antos, for instance, from Google, designed for to support multi cloud. That's where in the early stages there, but you can see the sentiment that buyers have around multi cloud Google and Microsoft showing momentum. Interestingly, VM wear Red Hat and Cisco kind of, you know, bunched up as the big enterprise player. So that's why we call a jump. Oh, we see it is wide open. You know, Cisco might surprise some people, but it really doesn't surprise us. Cisco's coming at multi cloud from a position of networking strength of each of these players you know has their strength. Google with Antos Microsoft from its software state Veum, where clearly as the data center operating system red hat with open shift Now with IBM service is capability. And, of course, Sisko coming at it from networking and security. So so hard to conclude you know who wins out of this data but wanted to share that with you just in terms of what customers are thinking around multi cloud. Okay, big conversation in the community around networking generally specifically NSX. When VM wear beats us, go to the punch and acquired nice era. It stated that we want to do to networking in storage what we did for servers. Well, what did the end? Where do the servers they really co opted the marketplace changed the game and really became, you know, these central point of server management, and that's what they want to do with with networking. VM where is trying to de position Cisco as, ah, hardware vendor, Cisco is responding with its own software defined capabilities and is an interesting battle going on. What is the data show? This shows that network networking spend intentions for Cisco, the Red Line and the M Wear the Blue Line. You can see VM where NSX is sort of bouncing around but has very high mindshare. Where Cisco it's showing a holding firm, but a very gradual decline, I've said many times. Cisco very impressive company, 60 plus percent market share. They've held that for a long, long time, despite some of the successes that you've seen you by the likes of a risk juniper and F five et cetera. Cisco has held its dominant share, but nonetheless, it's clear that NSX is impacting Cisco's dominance. Certainly from a marketing standpoint, and you're seeing also, from a spending standpoint that NSX is really challenging Cisco. It'll be very interesting to see how that plays out over time. Okay, next question was okay. What about cloud. How is that affecting VM? Where we see the cloud numbers, we see the growth. What does that mean for VM wear? And you can see here this'll cloud customers of'em were spend about 718 respondents, and you can see the number of shared accounts in the sample is substantial. 3 94 3 79 for 69. It obviously changes by by the frequency that e t. R does these surveys and they do, you know, several times a year, as you can see, but, you know, large sample of shared accounts. And there's no question that Cloud customers continue to shift Maur. They're spending to the public cloud and potentially at the expense of the end, where you can see the gradual decline here and somewhat precipitous decline. VM. We're still very strong. Stock price is doing great, but there's a little question in our mind that long term VM where, despite cleaning up its cloud strategy with first the AWS Partnership and also now partnerships with Google and Microsoft, and of course, I'd be Emma's Well, they were first, but having public cloud partners nonetheless, we see that over time there's a riel tension there. That on Prem is not going to grab the market, share that growth that the cloud has. And that is a challenge for VM, where that we continue to watch finally pivotal. Why would a V M where acquire? Pivotal? Well, first of all, this is why Pivotal is not work. It doesn't have the momentum that it wants in the marketplace. You can see it's it's pretty steep decline over the last couple of years. On Dhe, it's precipitous. Ah, drop in stock price. Essentially, Del and the governance structure of Del Technologies, which course owns VM, wear a large portion of pivotal saying, Look, let's let's roll this back in. Let's give the stock price of boost. The stock went up 70 plus percent of the day that thou went down 800 points. And so this is why the M, where would buy Pivotal? You know, it's a forcing function, we believe, from from Del. It also makes sense, del in its family del technologies that has these software assets VM where is the mother ship of the Del software operation? So why not folded in personally? I think they should do it with some other software assets as well. Secureworks del Bumi, Arcee. All candidates to roll in potentially overtime to Vienna where at least portions of it, anyway. Okay, so let's summarize. What are the key takeaways? What's the appetite for Veum warrants in the second half of 2019? Pretty solid, we'd say. Well, containers kill VM where there's no evidence, certainly in the theater. But there are threats. Think about sass. How many SAS providers are actually running? VM where so, as SAS continues to grow in prominence of that is a potential blind spot for VM. Where that we're watching Who's best position in multi cloud? It's wide open. Microsoft look strong. Google clearly has some momentum. Cisco maybe surprises many, but I think it's not gonna be a winner. Take all we feel is, though there's a lot of opportunities, but number one is going to make the most money. And so it's a very important space that we're watching. House NSX impacting Cisco Spend. It's a battle, but NSX is clearly negatively pressuring, pressuring Cisco. How about Public Cloud? How is that affecting the M we're spend? We think it's slowly eating away at on print on Prem including the end, where I want to share with you a quote from one of the customers that E. T. R talked to its ahead of, ah, retail consumer organisation in North America. A long time I t practitioner says Veum wears everywhere that I've ever been. I've been a customer. Longtime VM were customer hair. She means it's the standard, but it's interesting situation to see what's their next step. How do they keep themselves relevant? I think they're always going to be a need for Veum where, especially because the ability to have the privacy of an extended network is key. However, with the cloud based environment and encrypted data, it's gonna be interesting to see how that all plays out how Veum wear deals with that approach. I think their next strategic steps are going to be crucial. I think that VM where has to be thinking long term. Okay, what do we do about Cloud? Remember VM, where early on tried to get into cloud and with its own public cloud option, became the cloud air. It failed. They got rid of it, cleaned up their cloud strategy. But why did VM where originally want to get into that business because they know that's world of growth is so yes, hybrid and multi cloud gives VM wear a lot of runway. The partnership with Amazon has a lot of momentum. I didn't share that data, but it's very clear that AWS uh Veum, where on AWS has strong momentum. And so that's certainly what the e t. Our data shows nonetheless, long term, you gotta ask what strategic moves will Michael Dell make to secure their position in the public cloud? Okay, lastly, whywould whywould vm will require pivotal. That's a duh. Okay, we gonna stated why So So that's the deal, thanks to our friends at E T. R. Really appreciate them sharing the data enterprise technology research If you wanted this, there's so many cuts on the data, it's it's unbelievable. You can cut it by large companies, small company industry applications and every company on the planet. You can compare companies together. It's really a powerful set of data, but also access tools that they have developed very, very nice, really modern version of survey panels. And so follow up with us. Follow up with them if you want more information and watch us at VM World will be covering these and many other issues that are tent year at VM World. All the key execs are gonna be on practitioners, customers, partners on, of course, analysts and the broader ecosystem technologists and John Ferrier stew Minuteman myself on the entire Cube team will be there to celebrate. So check it out, cube dot net and we'll see you next week. Thanks for watching.

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue now Here's your host Day Volonte. >> Hi, buddy. Welcome to the Special Cube conversation. My name is David Dante, and this is our series on partners. How partners and the Channel is adding value to help customers create business capabilities in this digital world. I'm here with John Barker, and he is the co founder and CEO of a company called Versatile Local New England partner of H P Ease. This is sponsored by HP and versatile John. Welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming >> on. Well, thanks, David. Appreciate you having me here today. >> So tell us more about versatile. You've been business for a couple of decades. Plus, you have, ah, deep background. Tell us about versatile and your background. >> Your, uh, be happy to do that versa was found in 25 years ago. Said 25th anniversary and I probably would be lying if I didn't tell you. I probably would've been out of this business 25 years later, but it's a great business. It was fun about my partner and I, Kevin Meaney, like a lot of those stories have started on a picnic bench in a basement. Actually, so we've grown the company over the years. I think one of the things that's important, I have something important to our customers always had a great basin infrastructure. We've always had a great deal of engineering support from our company. From a company perspective, we feel like it was 25 years ago today. Making sure you've got a complete infrastructure in place for our customers is very important that you can layer on top of those applications that those customs need to run their business. >> Well, you've seen the waves. I mean, we kind of started in the business around the same time, and we sort of we watched that PC era when everything was PC centric. It was all about personal productivity. And we saw the Internet wave. And obviously, now you know, the cloud has been this huge disrupter. And now we've got this digital wave. What are the big trends that you're seeing in the marketplace with your customer? >> Well, clearly, you know, Cloud is not new in anywhere. It has certainly been here for several years now, but in a lot of cases, they're they're they're certainly companies were born in the clown who have gone there 100% right out of the gate. But in a lot of cases are more traditional business. A lot of our customers are taking steps to get there or to build further down there, take advantage of what can be some certainly cost saving opportunities, some convenience aspects associated with the cloud. But I think from a customer's perspective, there's a lot of new technology out there, and not that it wasn't true 10 years ago. But there's so much to understand and understand what makes the most sense for my firm. Might my operation. Can I securely move to the club, right? Can I can I adequately support all of my customers? And I think that's really where a lot of customers are at. They're really looking for guidance. They're trying to understand what all the choices are. How do I move there and who can help me get there? >> Yeah, and the pendulum swings. I mean, after the you know the dot com bust, everybody was focused on cutting costs. You know, the post wide to K of situation. It feels like now people are trying to figure out. How do I get competitive advantage? They C i t. And data a differentiator, and they don't want to get disrupted. They don't want to get uber rise. That's kind of the bromide. Presumably, you see that as well. How our customers looking at that cloud, both public cloud and hybrid cloud as a differentiator. Are they looking at it to cut costs? Are they looking at it, too? Support new APS and be more agile. What are you saying? >> I think it's a lot of those things, you know, I think throughout our history it was all about putting that kind of base infrastructure together and storing a lot of data in a lot of places, making sure it's secure to have a have a proper disaster recovery plan in place. There wasn't a whole lot of thought back then. What is all this data we're storing and how do we take advantage of it? That clearly is changing, right. So with the advent of analytics, we happen to a lot of work in the health care space, which really there's a treasure trove of data out there to kind of help in that space. I think It's from a health care perspective. Technology will be the savior. Despite the fact that I think most doctors certainly conditions that you would talk to you today, almost look at this a burden and that needs to change needs to move forward. >> Well, health care is a real challenge. I mean, obviously you have, you know, hippa considerations. You've got all its highly regulated industry. As you point out, docks have never really embraced technology in a big way. But now you've got you got machine to machine intelligence. You got all kinds of embedded stuff and medical devices, and I think doctors are realizing that while machines can actually help us make better diagnoses, and it's an industry that's ripe for disruption, it really hasn't been heavily disrupted yet. But it's coming, isn't it? >> Definitely is coming on Dhe and again, she only at the hospital level. I think that they're a little bit ahead of the game in terms of how they manage their resource. Is the data the applications down the clinician level? You know much like yourself. I'm sure if you had to visit it, I had an issue related to some kind of elements or injury. A lot of it's not going to hospitals anymore. We're going to clinics. Minute clinics were going to see our doctors and a lot of cases. Those facilities haven't necessarily benefited by technology refreshes over over the last several years. And so they're really right to come into the kind of the 21st century here, along with things like Tele Medicine. So you talk about from a physician standpoint who struggled with just any HR application, which continues to be somewhat of a burden for a lot of folks. Now they've got compliancy issues they need to worry about. They've got to be offering new service is to their customers into their patients like telemedicine creates. Even Maur issues on the back end. From a data perspective, storage perspective, compliance, accessibility and ease of use don't necessarily go together, right? Tough balance, right? And so I think that, you know, from an enforcement perspective, it's only really starting to start in the health care space where is maybe the commercial? Certainly the financial markets have had no choice over the last 10 to 12 years to really hard down their facilities, their applications and their access to data. This is a whole new challenge for the health care space to tackle here. Going forward. >> So versatile are experts at at infrastructure and architecture and architectures obviously changed a lot over the past 25 years, right? Usedto have a nap. And you, you'd put down infrastructure might have been, you know, Unix or a V M s or whatever it was. You build a hardened system around that security and boom. There was your your stovepipe. It worked. It was rock solid. How are architectures, you know, changing today? How would you describe that today? Today's architecture? >> Well, way we do a lot of work with Hewlett Packard Enterprise. We've been a platinum partner. There's for close to 20 years. And so we certainly gotten very engaged with them on their product sets around how they could manage data and certainly in the storage space around their intelligence data platform, which makes ah great deal of sense for us for our customers. We do several things in terms of how we manage data. We also do private cloud hosting for medical applications use. You know as well as we obviously put together solutions for our customers to be in the club, and so making sure that we're securing those those platforms in >> putting the proper >> infrastructure in place from storage perspective from a compute perspective than honesty from a network accessibility perspective is really, really quite important. I think in a lot of cases, both commercial and in the healthcare space especially there are so many new technologies that can saved customers money and provide better security over what they may have been doing in the past and sometimes in health care is not alone. Some of those changes are taking longer than they probably should. And that kind of the promise of what technique you can do to get to deliver to those verticals is here. It just takes a great deal of time to some degree to sit down on. The customers have to understand what your options are. What makes the most sense get them comfortable, obviously that the decisions they make the date is gonna be available, it's gonna be secure. It's gonna be easily accessible. >> So you guys come in with a holistic whole house view, obviously, so you're trying to help a customer achieve an outcome. So my question is what are you looking for? From, Ah, storage system partner. What? What's the ideal storage infrastructure? What do you need from storage? >> Sure. I mean, really, I think Intelligent analytics, which is really obviously something that Hewlett Packard enterprise has been, has really come on strong with especially were initially engaged with that animal product line. Which is to say that the machine itself is starting to take care of a lot of the things you would expect for your I t. Folks to have tea, either worry about or manage on. I think, part of the problem for all our customers. There's so many data points now. We talked a little bit earlier about the fact that the coyote is everywhere, whether it's commercial or in health care. You've got all sorts of devices. Now they're on the network that are providing some level of data back somewhere. How do you manage all that? And I think with info site tools from from HP Enterprise in the storage side, you're starting to get some analysts that they're taking it a much more proactive look at what the infrastructure is doing. Potential issues where you can make intelligent changes to improve performance obviously keep things secure. Those kinds of technologies really are gonna be the I think that a bit of the hope for if you will, whether it's health care, commercial, the amount of one I t cost I t personnel, they're very expensive. Obviously those resource is. And so if you could get intelligent deployments of solution, she's like that, then it can kind of take a huge bird. Enough of the I T department. They could go about working on project worked to a to a man to a woman. All the customers that we work with always feel like they're spending too much time kind of managing their infrastructure on. I do think that we're finally getting to the point where we've got tools that can help us really do that and reduce the amount of effort and somewhat costs that goes into that. ONDA also allow those resource is to start to work in the more strategic projects for the company's right. You know where the activity should be spent trying to either improve patient care and the health care side improved profitability in the commercial space. This is really you know, this is groundbreaking kind of tools that we just haven't seen in this industry. >> Yeah, this is key. I mean, 10 years ago, people were afraid a lot of this automation, I often joke, but it's really not a joke. If your expertise is managing lungs, you probably want to rethink your career. And so but But again, 10 years ago, people were afraid that that the automation was gonna take their jobs. We think today they realized, Wow, this train of digital transformation is left the station, and they want to shift their activities from things that air, not adding value to the business to your point, things that are more strategic. So from an infrastructure standpoint, how are you helping customers? You achieve those outcomes? >> I think from our perspective, we take a very consultative approach, right? And often times I think sometimes you can't see the forest through the trees. And a lot of these organizations, right? The too busy in their day to day jobs, trying to manage the day to day efforts to actually take a strategic view of you know what I got here? How do I improve all this? What kinds of technology should I really be? looking at, I think it's almost impossible, right? You know, we had a lot of very high end engineers who a lot of cases, wouldn't be comfortable going to a small or medium business to spend their career there because it would be that only set of infrastructure they would set up and then manage right. It becomes boring for those guys. A lot of cases, a lot of the ways that we've been able to retain our talents because we're looking at noon challenges every day. New companies with new challenges for for, for their corporations, for their health care organizations to kind of understand one of the issues. How do we come up with some solutions? How to implement a phased approach to get them where they need to be? >> You're talking really about your partnership with HP Previously, HP What is it about that partnership that is unique? How do you guys differentiate in the marketplace on why HP? >> Well, I think for us it was an easy decision. You know, HP Enterprise has always been very partner friendly, which is important. We've worked together for about 20 years on dhe, certainly from a technology perspective and I think for our customers there's a bit of leapfrogging that goes all of all of these vendors, right? So to some degree of somebody might have the best d'oh gizmo for this year, and someone's gonna have something six months later. But there's consistency there. The strategic kind of view of of how they see the world unraveling and how we how we support I t going forward is really, I think, a notch above some of their competitors. I think hybrid is very important. Everybody you know, I mentioned early there, some certainly some companies that make sense that could really almost go completely club. But in most cases, it's just not possible several several certainly of our customer base. That is not gonna be comfortable ever to some degree putting everything in the cloud, but the ability to take advantage of the cloud and keep their their some of their I p, if you will locally to them make some sense. And so I think, you know, for for hybrid cloud in hybrid storage and compute HPD really got advance HB Well, >> in a lot of that to John, I think, is bringing the cloud operating model to your data wherever it exists, especially in health care. People aren't just gonna throw all the healthcare data into the cloud. I mean, there's so many issues they're not, not the least of which is. There's a lot of data on Prem that you just don't want to move into the clouds. Too expensive is too time consuming. So then to me and I look youto comment on this, a lot of that is around the simplicity of managing that infrastructure and three part kind of years ago said a gold standard on simplicity. And now Nimble comes in with a lot of intelligent automation. Your thoughts on being able to bring that cloud model to on Prem or in a hybrid situation, Is that a sort of valid way to think about? >> Oh, absolutely, I think it is. And I think again I go back to health care a little bit. But every 18 months there's storage requirements double on top of that because of compliancy issues, they have to hang on to the data indefinitely. I mean, that's gotta be a frightening aspect for any storage manager who's trying to manage Ah health care organization, a large health care organization. I need to hang on absolutely everything. Email all my files. It's not 10 years, 15 years, it's indefinitely. So that's a a major, a major undertaking in terms of Hattaway. Manage all that, right? So So H P certainly got an array of ways. Thio help with that, whether it's all flash right for the applications that require that kind of speed, this multi multi layers of storage of deployment, backup solutions, right and D r options that obviously a lot to take advantage of cloud where it makes a lot of sense. So there's a multitude of things that they need to think about on. I do believe HP is addressing those quite well. >> How are you changing the way in which you're hiring people today versus you know of 10 15 years ago? What's the skill set profile today? >> It really has changed and, you know, as we talked about earlier, we've been in business for 25 years, and and I think our ability to stay in business for that long has really been our ability to adapt and change on your right. You are hiring practices and who we hire is very different than it was maybe even five years ago. Where I've got to get cloud level architects involved. Expensive but very worthwhile resource is to be able to help customers with all of this. I do think what we get to deliver to our customers, the fact that we've got a multitude hundreds and hundreds of customers and experiences that go along with that that we could bring to the table it just couldn't possibly do in their own. It's quite impossible mission in the largest of the largest organizations. You're not going to expose the kinds of challenges in putting together kinds of solutions that gonna solve customers problems without doing that. So it's been quite a different higher than it has been in the past. >> My last question for you. Think of a healthcare use case or any any customer. So they're struggling. They've got, you know, everybody's got budget constraints. The market's moving super fast. You got this cloud thing coming, Adam The edge I ot you know, machine intelligence A. I a same time they they've got an existing business to runner and 80% of their time, and their investment is on keeping the lights on. We hear that all the time. What's your advice to the customer? I'm sure this is a common story. They want to go from point A to point B transformed their business. They don't want to go broke doing it. They might not have. The resource is so what do you D'oh, How would you advise them? >> Well, look, I think and we struggle like a lot of use. A lot of partners in this world in this country, right? Even in this region. And so trying to differentiate yourself. And we like to think that we're better than everybody else and so does the other two or 3000. Probably surrounded here in the 50 mile radius is really do need to find a trusted advisor that can help you through that. I think one of the places that we start there are there's opportunity to get some fairly immediate return on investment. I think that's important because to your point there were challenges, their their budget constraints. How am I gonna do all that? That those two things kind of go in two different directions. But there are many of our customers, really, Whether it's in health care and even the commercial side who may be doing some old things, some old I t. Things that could be replaced, including the cloud in terms of how they may be. They may be using an old disaster recovery of method, right that you're paying a lot of money for lease lines. It's really kind of a cold site, you know. They might go there once a year to try to see if they can recreate all their applications and get the thing up and running. There's clearly a cloud opportunity in there to save them. >> A lot of money >> reinvest that. Maybe not sit on idle equipment that obviously costs money is under some kind of maintenance, and you need to obviously resource to sport that. So I think that's a good conversation. When you guys get in with a customer and start to talk about Look, there's probably some areas here. We could save you money. So, yes, we're gonna charge you some money to get there. But the return on that is gonna be gonna be much better than where you want today. >> I love that answer. So look, look for quick hits. Try to demonstrate some some savings and generate some cash. If you will think like a business person, use that as a gain share approach. Maybe go to the CFO and say, Hey, if we can save this money can be reinvested in innovation. Drive more business value than you get that flywheel effect and you can build up credibility in your organization. And that's how you get from Point A to point B. Without going broke, he actually can make money for the organization that >> absolutely it's a very good point because, you know, we talked about earlier. You know, I t has been under constraint for quite a while, right? And so again, back to the ability for those people to think and have enough time to get into shitty strategic conversations all by themselves. It's difficult, if not impossible. So they need. They need help, They need consultants and they need trusted advisors. But obviously you need to prove your worth. I do think if you could start someplace where you can demonstrate Look, we could save you some real money here over the next year. 18 months, Two years is a great place to start. >> John, thanks so much for coming in and sharing your insights and best of luck out there. >> Well, thank you. I appreciate it very much. >> You're welcome. All right. Thank you for watching everybody. This is Dave Volante with the Cube. Will see you next time.

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue Now, here's your host. Day Volonte. >> Hi, buddy. This is David Lantz. Welcome to this cube. Conversation with Dr Rico is the CMO of infinite out. It's still I still have a hard time saying that doctor or an engineer and I love having you on because we could talk storage. We could go deep and we could talk trends and marketing trends, too. But so welcome. Thanks for coming on my sled. So tell me what's new since the scale to win launch that you guys had. Tell me what you know. Is everything shipping Now What's the uptake been like with customers? And the reaction? Yeah, >> they're the reaction has been phenomenal. This, as you may recall, you were there. It was biggest launch in our history, which was fantastic. And the reaction has just been overwhelmingly positive, with customers with partners with analysts. Human scum cases with competitors is an interesting you know, we had a lot of things that were already shipping. They were an early customer release. There were a few things that we had started shipping in December on the things that we said we'd be coming in three Q. We G eight on time. So there, there now all generally available except the stuff that we talked about that would be available in 2020 which right now looks like it's on track. It's doing very, very well. >> So VM wear VM world eyes coming up later on this month, things are obviously changing. There was announcement recently that that VM wears gonna choir pivotal. So a little bit of financial engineering going on stock stock rose 77% on the day when the Dow dropped 800. So okay, the funny money. But things are changing in the V m where ecosystem you certainly saw we we This is our 10th year the M world. We go back and you hear Tod Nielsen back in the day, talk about for every dollar spent on a V M where lice and 15 was spent a Negro system, you know, we're kinda del izing vm wear now, which is sort of interesting, but I'm curious as to what you're seeing what that all means to you. I mean, still half a million 600,000 customers, you've got to be there you guys have great success at that show. So your thoughts what's going on? But VM world this year? Yeah, I >> kind of kind of loaded their first of all congratulations on the milestone. That's great. 10 years is super. Remember, probably seeing you with the 1st 1 there. Of course we knew each other longer. Uh, you know, and sure I get the incestuous, you know, money changing of hand there, I think I think it's it's good in one respect. You certainly CBM where, you know, making big inroads with VM wear on AWS. And this isn't now with Pivotal will be a good launching platform for Della's well, a svm where to be a little bit more in control of their own destiny. And it's certainly the way a lot of people are going. We're doing a lot of that ourselves. Not so much, in a sense. We don't have a cloud platform that we sell is a total encompassing platform. But of course, with new tricks cloud on big players and then certainly a large portion of our our customer base, our cloud service providers, they love our stuff. It helps them compete. It actually gives them in some respects, a competitive advantage, but VM world itself. Lots going on there. We have amplified our presence once again because VM where does represent a large portion of our customer base? So we're we're very proud of that. We're very proud to be a technology alliance partner of the M wears Andi. We're expecting to see a really good show in a really good cloud. A cloud crowd has they return back to their home base in San Francisco for us this year, it's It's gonna be a different experience. Were tellingme or of the software story, more of the portfolio story more about how you scare scale the win. We have a virtual presence this year, which is going to be very helpful in telling that story. Customers can come in and they can see more than just a ah box that in our world is really not important because it's for us. It's all about the software and stuff we do. We even in Booth Theater, we have some private meeting spaces well, to take people into a bigger, deeper drill down. But the virtual experience will allow them to touch and feel stuff that maybe they didn't get to do before, and that's gonna be kind of exciting as well. >> So you mentioned C S P s. We had Michael Gray thrive on a while back, and you know, he was saying that Look, he likes your product because it allows him to do other things. And don't worry about, you know, the old sort of tuning and managing and ableto re shift labor. I felt like that was an interesting discussion, primarily because you've got all these cloud service providers that everybody thought aws was just gonna kill. And if anything, it's elevated them. What are you seeing in the CSP space? Yeah, you know, >> Michael had a lot of interesting things to say that definitely love the fact that we enable multiple workloads without them having to do lots of cautious planning and re planning and shifting and shuffling. And we are seeing C S P is becoming more value. Add to a lot of businesses, especially the mid market and the smaller enterprise where people may want more than just infrastructure. You know, they don't they need that application level support and companies like thrive in some of our other really good customer, US signal and you know they're all capable of Flex Central's. Another one they're all capable of providing service is beyond the hardware they're capable of providing that application support the guidance and, in the case of Thrive, the cybersecurity guidance especial Really, which is really, really critical. So they're growing, and they're also, by the way, working with eight of us and Google and Azure to provide that capabilities well, when necessary. >> Well, that leads me to the sort of multi cloud discussion in our industry. We tend to have this alphabet soup of acronyms like another reason I like talking to you because we can kind of cut through that. And, you know, I love the marketing. I think marketing helps people understand what's going on differentiate. It gives you an indication of where the industry is going, and multi cloud is one of those things that I mean. I've kind of said it's a symptom of multi vendor and more so than a strategy. But increasingly it seems like it's becoming a strategy with customers, and you just gave an example of thrive working with multiple cloud vendors. Clearly, VM where wants to be in that business. What your thoughts on multi cloud and and hybrid. What does it mean for for infinite at What's your strategy there? You know, it's it's interesting because I >> just read an article the other day about you know, the definition of multi cloud on whether it's being abused and, you know, I I look at it as someone just trying to tell their story and give it. Give it some favor. I think at the end of the day, uh, every business is going to be talking to multiple platforms whether they want to or not. You know, there are many customers and companies out there, businesses who are in our customers who have gone the way of the cloud and repatriated. Certain things is they've they found that it it may work. It may not work, and there are many cloud providers who were trying to do things to accelerate migration of applications because they see that certain applications don't work. You know, we got one of the cloud providers buying Ah, now as provider, another one buying very recently, you know, an envy me based flash company to try to pick up those loose workloads where they might struggle today. But the end of the day everybody's going to be multiple. And whether it's because they're using cloud service is from from a software perspective or whether they just need to basically broker and maintain sort of that that independence so that they can maintain some cost control, availability, control, security, control and in some cases it will remain on premises. And some of things will be off just so they could get the applications closer to their end users. So you know what is multi Cloud? Multi Cloud really is just one of those terms that literally means what it says. It's your business running in multiple places. It doesn't have to necessarily be simultaneously by the same application. >> A big part of your value proposition is the simplicity. We've heard that from your customers, and you guys obviously push that out there. I want to ask you because you mentioned repatriation and you know, Cloud keeps growing like crazy. Sure, and the on prem not so much. You guys are smaller company. You're growing your stealing share, So yep. So maybe is that simplicity thing. Here's my question. So it's around automation. The cloud providers, generally an Amazon specifically have have driven automation. They've attacked the IittIe labor problem and they're able to charge for that on Dhe. So my question is, are you seeing that you're able to attack that labor problem in a similar sense and bring forth the value proposition to customers is Look, we can create a cloud like experience on Prem if you want MacLeod. Great. But if you want to stay on Prem, you're gonna get the benefit of being able to shift. Resource is two more strategic things and not have to worry about all this heavy, heavy lifting. You You seeing tangible evidence of that? >> We're seeing significant tangible evidence of that on and, you know, a couple of things. You know, you talk about growth, right? And I think when we did the launch, you know, only a few months ago we were at about 4.6 exabytes of capacity shipped. We just passed 5.1. That's some significant growth in in just a few months. It's like a 33% growth just from the same time last year, which is which is fairly significant. And of course, if you're familiar with the way we talk, you know you have an engineer is the head of marketing. We like to tell the truth. You know, we don't like to mask, do many things and confuse people. We don't like talking about effective storage because effective capacity doesn't really mean much to some people. So that's, you know, this is what we This is what we shipped and it's growing rapidly. And a lot of that is growing, in part because of the significance of the message and in part because of this need to control costs, contain costs and really operate in a more modern way. So get back to your comments about cloud and cloud operation. That's really what people want. People like the consumption model of cloud. They don't always like the cost on hidden costs. So simplifying that, but giving them the flexibility Thio have either an op X or cap ex that allows him to grow and shrink as they move workloads around. Because everybody grows even on Prem is growing. It's just, you know, it's the law of numbers, right? Cloud is growing, absolutely. But on Prem really is growing. And then the other thing I want is they want the operational flexibility. And that's what we talked about in our elastic data fabric. They don't like constantly having to re jigger and re balance workloads. Infinite box by itself. The platform of infinite Box takes away a lot of that mystery and magic, because it it kind of hides all of the complexity of that workload. And it, you know, we take the randomness out of the I o. I think maybe Craig Hibbert mentioned in his video is he was describing in detail how that happens. Remember Michael Gray talking about that as well, you know, So those those things come out in a single infinite box. But even if you said well, I still want to move my workload from, uh, you know this data center to an adjacent data center or perhaps a data center in another facility. Um, excuse me, Another city. So that's closer to the end user. Making that transparent to the applications is critically important. >> Yes, he talked about growth in about 1/2 a PETA bite. Sorry, half an exabyte in just a few months. A couple months? Really Right. That's that's growth. But I want to ask you about petabytes. Petabytes scales. Kind of key of companies that don't do that in a year day, eh? Exactly. So that's a petabytes scale. Is big party of marketing two questions? Why is that relevant? Or is that relevant to VM? Where customers? Why so and then, does it scare some people owe you? Asked a great question. >> It absolutely scared some people. And I know that there are some pundits out their industry pundits who who basically don't agree with our messaging. But this is this is the business problem that we we targeted the solve rate. Um, there are a lot of people out there who don't think they're petabytes scale yet because maybe they're individual applications aren't petabytes scale. But when you add it up, they get there and a lot of our customers are existing. Customers didn't start with infinite at at petabytes scale. They started a couple 100 terabytes, perhaps, but they're petabytes skill now. In fact, over 80% of the customers and systems that we have out there today or above the petty bite. We have customers that are in the tens of petabytes. We have customers that are in the hundreds of petabytes. They grow, they grow rapidly on. Why is that? Well, to two factors. Really. Number one, if you go back to. Probably when I first met you back when I had your hair, at least in quantity, way had way. Were kind of crusting that terabyte mark. Right? Right. And what was the problem? The problem was nobody could figure out how to deal with the performance. Nobody wanted to put that much risk on a single platform, so they couldn't deal with the availability. And they really didn't know how to deal with even the serviceability of that scale. So terabyte was a problem solved No, 25 years ago, and then things were rapidly from there. Now we're at the same juncture, just three orders of magnitude later. Right? >> Well, that's interesting, because, you know, you're right. People didn't want to put all all that capacity under an actuator that cost performance problems. They were concerned about, you know, just availability. And then two things happen so simultaneously, flash comes along. And, you know, you would say was put sort of a Band aid to some of the performance problems. Sure. And you guys came up with, like, this magic sauce to actually use spinning disc and get the same performance or better performance you would argue with flash. And so as a result, you were now able to do a lot Maur with the data, the concerns about that much date under the actuator somewhat attenuated because, I mean, you've got now so much data, you've got to do something that's almost that's flywheel effective. You've got tons of data machine intelligence and a I. Now, coming into the picture, you've got Cloud, which has been this huge tail when for the industry and for data creation in general. And so I see. You know, you see, like the I. D. C numbers and for forecasting growth of data and storage could be low. I mean, the curve could be bending, you know, kind of more than exponentially your thoughts on that. >> Yeah, it's an interesting, interesting observation. I think what it really comes down to is our storyline is math is greater than media, all right? And when you when you look at the flash being, you know, the panacea to performance it was just a step in the evolution, right? You go back and and say, spinning disc was the same solution to the performance problem 20 years ago. 25 years ago, even it was 5400 rpm discs and then very rapidly. Servers got faster. The interconnects got a little bit faster. They were still mostly differential. Scuzzy. There was 7200 rpm discs. And I promise you, by the way, that if you're running 5400 rpm desk, you install 7200 rpm. All yours performance problems will go away until the day you install it. And then it was 10,000 rpm discs and I was 15,000 rpm disc, and it still wasn't getting fast enough because, you know, you went to Fibre Channel One Gig Fibre channel and then to Geek Fibre, Channel four, Gig fibre, Channel eight, gig fibre channel. The unified connects got faster. The servers got faster. That was more cash on the servers. Then this thing came along, cuts called solid state disc. Right. And then it was it was SLC single layer cell technology. But don't worry about it's very expensive. Not a problem. You only need 4% of your application, right? Jerry? No, no, I'm sorry. percent. No, I'm sorry. 30%. What the heck? You know, M l c is now a little bit more reliable, so let's just make make it all slash. Right? So that was the end of the story, right? No. Servers continue to get faster. Uh, the media continue to get faster and denser, right? So now the interconnect isn't fast enough, So envy me. Is that the answer to life? The universe and everything? Well, wait. I got a better answer for your test. CIA storage class memory in parallel with that. By the way, there are some vendors out there who said that's still not fast enough. We want to put more d ram and the servers and do things in memory. We went in memory databases. I guarantee whatever you do from a media perspective on my personal guarantee to you, it's obsolete by the time you're up and running. By the time you get your applications migrated, configured and running with business value, it's already obsolete. Some vendors got something better coming out. The right answers. This stuff you talked about, the right answer is everything that you're doing for your business. APs. It's a it's a Mel. It's solving the problems in software and, you know, you said we use disc and make it fast. It's not despite itself, of course, right? It's D Bram. It's a lot of the Ram, which, by the way, is orders of magnitude faster than flash the NAND flash. And even if its ECM and still orders of magnitude faster than that, what we use the disk for today in the architecture is the cost factor. We take the random ization out in the flash and we take the >> end and in the in the diagram >> and we used the SAS in the back end to manage costs. But we use it in a way that it performs well, which is highly sequential, massively parallel. And we take full advantage of that Beck and Ben with to do that with that massive dear am front end. Our cash ratios are unparalleled in the industry and and we use it even more effectively that way. But if architecture already evolves, so if if SCM becomes more stable and becomes more cost effective, we can replace that that S S D layer with the cm. And if you know, if the economics of Q L C or something beyond that. Come down will replace the back end with that, do you? Do >> you ever look at what you're doing today as sort of a modern day symmetric. So I mean, a lot of things you just said. I mean, you've got a lot of memory. You've got a massive back end. You know, those were two of the characteristics of symmetric snow. Of course. Fast forward. Whatever. 30 years, right. But a lot of it was sort of intelligence and understanding. Sure. So how data works, is it Is it a fair sort of, or is it radically different? Well, in terms of mindset, I mean, I know the implementation is >> right, right? >> Yeah. I mean, it's not an unfair comparison. I mean, tiered storage was around before some metrics. Right? So it's certainly existed existed then, too. It was just at the time. It was a significant innovation course to layer at the time, right? A big cash front, ending some slower media and then taking advantage of the media on the back end. The big difference today is that if you look at what some metrics became through its Evolution's DMX and V Max and now Power Max. It's still tiered storage, you know, you still have some cash. That's that's for unending some faster media with power. Max, you're you're dealing now with us with an SS a back end. But what happened with those types of architectures is the tearing became more automated. But you're still moving information around. You're still moving Information from one said it This to another set of this leader in the cycle. You're still trying to promote things you know, to to the cash up front. We're doing it in real time. We're >> doing it by analyzing >> the data on the way it comes in. We're reassembling it again, taking the random ization out we're reassembling it and storing it across multiple disks in a way that it it increases our probability of pulling that information associated information back when we need it later. So there's there's no movement. Once its place, we don't have to replace it. You know it's already associated with other data that makes sense, and that gives us a lot of value. >> And secret sauce is the outcome of the secret sauce is you're able to very efficiently. Well, historically, you haven't been able to do a lot of garbage collection, a lot of data movement, and that just kills performance. There's >> really no garbage collection necessary in our in our world way. Also use very modern data structures or patents. Ah, lot of them on our neural cash Deal with the fact that we use a try data structure. So we're not using old fashioned hash tables and you know, l are you algorithms, You know it Sze very, very rapid traverse a ll of these trees >> and you're taking advantage of machine intelligence inside the software architecture. That really is some of the new innovation that really wasn't around to be able to take advantage of that 20 years ago. Maybe it was it was just not cost effective. Do the math was there, put it that the math of the mouth was there and >> there there There's been lots of evolutions of that over the years, a swell, but we continue to evolve and innovate. And, you know, one of the one of the cool things I think about working infinite at is is the multiple multiple generations of engineer where you've got people who understand that math they understand the real nuances of what it means to operate in a world of storage, which is quite a bit different than operating, saying networks or proceed be used because data integrity is paramount. There's lots of lots of things that go on there as well. But we also have younger generations, generations who like new challenges and like to re invent things so they find newer and greater ways to do things. >> This is exciting. So systems, thinkers and I mean server thinkers. I mean, people who understand, you know, systems designed it all the way through and and, you know, newbies who are super smart like you say, wanna learn and solve problems? Go back to the petabytes scale discussion, >> solve problems at petabytes scale, right? Even if the customer doesn't need that necessarily to solve that problem is critically important because even if you look at Les, just take, you know NFS, for example, most NFS systems deal with thousands of objects. Hundreds to thousands of objects are an F s. Implementation deals with billions, right? Do you need billions? How many applications you know that have billions of objects, But being able to do that in a way where performance doesn't degrade over time and also do it in a way where we say our nlm implementation isn't impacted by any any type of service events, we can take a note out, and it doesn't impact in ln There's no no degradation and performance. There's no impact or outage in service. All that's important. Even when you're dealing with smaller application sizes because they add up, they really do add up. He also brought up the point about, you know, density and actually intensity. Great. You know, back 25 years ago, when we were dealing with, you know, the first terabyte storage system, you know, how much how much stories did you have on your laptop? How much you have today, right? You know, you're probably more than a terabyte. They were laughing about putting things terabyte on the floor. And now you get more than a terabyte on your laptop. Things changing? >> Yeah. Um, I wanna ask you where you see the competition. We talked about all flash. We've had a long conversation, long, many conversations in the past about this, But you really, you know, the all flashy kind of described it as a Band Aid, essentially my words, but it was sort of a step function. Okay, great. Um, you have one company, really us who achieve escape velocity in that business in terms of pure But is that where you see in competition and you're seeing it from, you know, the hyper scale er's where you Yeah, you know, >> it's interesting. You know, you look at companies like, you know, we admire what they dio, especially with regard to marketing. They do a really good job of that. They also, um I have some really interesting ideas innovating the media, which is which is great. It helps us in the long run as well. Um, we just look at it as a component of our system, not these system, which makes it different. We don't really see the A f a. You know, the small scale a FAA is are the majority of our competition. We do run into them, but typically it the lower end of the opportunity. Even within the bigger companies that have competitors to those products, we run into them and smaller opportunities, not bigger opportunities where we run into them where there's a significant performance advantage as long as you don't mind the scale out approach to solving the problem. Unfortunately, when you're using a phase two skill out, you know you're putting all of the intelligence requirements on some poor storage administrator or system administrator to figure out what those where right, we take all of that away. So once it starts to scale, that's where we come in a plan. We don't see tons of competition there. Certainly, we're seeing competition from the clouds. And the competition from the clouds is more born of customer mandates and company mandates. Sometimes they I'm not quite sure that everybody knows why there who think to the cloud and we're problem they're trying to solve. But once they start to see a story that says, Hey, if the reasons are and you do understand those reasons, if the reasons are agility and financial flexibility and operational agility not as well as his acquisition agility, you know, we have answers to that and it starts to become a little bit more interesting and compelling. >> All right. One of the highlights of the M world each year is your dinner. Your customer I crashed in a couple of years ago when there were no other analysts there. And then last year again, it was in Vegas. Shows a nice steak house. This year we're in San Francisco, but But I had some great conversations with customers. I remember speaking to one customer about juxtaposing the sand thio to infinite debts platform. And you know the difference. The Sands taken off doing really well, but But he helped me understand the thinking from their standpoint of how they're applying it to solve problems and why v san wasn't a good fit. Your system was, um that was just one of many conversations last year had again other great conversations with customers. What do you do in this year? You have a customer dinner. We are? Yeah. We love to have you in and gave the invitation there. Yeah, the invitation. Is that definitely there? You know, a couple of >> years ago we didn't invite analysts, and you know what it was? It was a mistake. We and we learned that lesson into a large part. We credit you for for showing us how wrong we are. Our customers are very loyal. They're some of the most loyal in the industry. Don't take my word for it going. The gardener Pierre Insights and and look at our numbers compared to everybody else's any pick. Pick a vendor. We're at the top of the list with regard to not only the ratings but, more importantly, the customers willingness to recommend in every category, too. By the way, it's It's not just product quality and performance, and it's it's service support. It's easy doing business. It's an entirely different experience. So we love having the customers there, and the customers love having you there, too. They love having you and your appears in the industry there because they love learning from you and they love answering the questions and getting new insights. And we'd love to have you there. We're gonna be in the Mint this year. San Francisco meant not the not the current one that that's pretty coins, but the original historical site on duh. You know we have. We have invitations out thio to about 130 people because there's only so much room we have it at the event, but we're looking forward to a great time and a great meal and good conversation. >> That's great. Well, VM World is obviously one of the marquee events in our industry. It's the It's the fat middle of where the IittIe pro goes on dhe We're excited. Used to be Labor Day started the fall season. Now it's VM world. Well, Doc will see you out there. Thanks very much for your good to see you. All right. Excellent. All right. Thank you for watching everybody. This is day Volonte in the Cube will see you next time we'll see you at the M World 2019.

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue. Now here's your host. Still minimum. >> I'm stupid, Aman and this is a cube conversation from our Boston area studio. We spent a lot of time talking about digital transformation. Of course, At the center of that digital transformations data this segment We're going to be talking about the data integration platform. Joining me for that segment is Itamar on Cory on Who's the senior vice president of enterprise data Integration with Click. Thanks so much for joining me. >> Thanks to left me here. >> All right, so a zay just said, you know the customers, you know, digital information when you talked to any user, you know, there there's some that might say, Oh, there's a little bit of hyper I don't understand it, but really leveraging that data, you know, there are very few places that that is not core toe what they need to do, and if they're not doing it, they're competition will do it. So can you bring us inside a little bit? That customers you're talking to that, that you know where that fits into their business needs and you know how the data integration platform, you know, helps them solve that issue. >> Absolutely so, As you mentioned, the diesel transformation is driving a lot ofthe innovation, a lot off efforts by corporations and virtually any organization that we're talking. Toa seize data is a core component off, enabling the little transformation. The data creates new analytics, and there was toe power, the digital transformation, whether it's in making better decisions, whether it's embedding the analytics and the intelligence into business processes and custom applications to ever to reach the experience and make it better. So data becomes key, and the more data you can make available through the process, the faster you can make a development in the process. The faster you can adapt your process to accommodate the changes, the better it will be. So we're saying organization, virtually all of them looking to modernize their day, the strategy and the day, the platforms in order to accommodate these needs. >> Yeah, it's such a complex issue. We've we've been at, you know, chief data officer events way, talk about data initiatives. You know, we worry a little bit that the sea seats sometimes here it's like up. They heard data is the new oil and they came and they said, You know, according to the magazine I read, you need we need to have a date, a strategy, and give me the value of data. But, you know, where is the rubber hitting the road? You know what? What are some of those steps that they're taking? You know, how do I help, you know, get my arms around the data and that help make sure it can move along that spectrum from kind of the raw or two, you know, real value. >> I think you made a great point. Talking about the or to value our as we refer to it is a road to ready. And part of the whole innovation that we're seeing is the modernization of the platform where organizations are looking to tap into the tremendous amount of data that is available today. So a couple of things have happened first in the last decade. First of all, we have significantly more data. It is available and and then ever before, because of digitization, off data and new sources become available. But beyond that, we have the technology is the platforms that can both store in process large amounts of data. So we have foundations. But in the end, to make it happen, we need to get all the data to where we want to analyze it and find a way to put it together and turning from more row material into ready, material ready products that can be consumed. And that's really where the challenges and we're seeing. A lot of organizations, especially the CEO Seo the animals, architecture and First data architecture, teams on a journey to understand how to put together these kind of architectures and data systems. And that's where without data integration platform, we focused on accommodating the new challenges they have encountered in trying to make that happen. >> Yeah, help us unpack a little bit, You know, a here today. You know, it's the economy. Everything should work together when I rolled out. You know, in our company, you know, the industries leading serum, it's like, Oh, I've got hundreds of data sources and hundreds of tools I could put together, and it should be really easy for me to just, you know, allow my data to flow and get to the right place. But I always always find a lot a lot of times that that easy. But I've been having a hard time finding that so so >> that that's a good point. And if you cannot takes the bag, understand water, this side of the court challenges or the new needs that we're seeing because we talk about the transformation and more than analytics field by data being part of it. More analytics created a new type of challenges that didn't exist before and therefore kind of traditional data integration tools didn't do the job they didn't meet. Those model needs me very touched on a few of those. So, first of all, and people, when customers are implementing more than analytics many times where they refer to escape well they're trying to do is to do a I machine learning. We'LL use those terms and we talk about him but machine learning and I get smarter, the more data you give them. So it's all about the scale of data, and what we're seeing with customers is where if in the past data warehouse system, but if typically had five ten twenty, they the source is going into it. When I was saying one hundred X uh, times that number of sources. So we have customers that worked with five hundred six hundred, some over two thousand source of data feeding the data analytics system. So scale becomes a critical need and we talk about scale. You need the ability to bring data from hundreds or thousands of sources so systems efficiently with very low impact and ideally, do it also with less resources. Because again, you need to scale the second second chair and you ran in tow s to do with the fact that more than analytics for many organizations means real Time analytics or streaming analytics. So they wantto be ableto process data in real time. In response for that, to do that, you need away toe move data, capture it in real time and be able to make it available and do that in a very economic fashion. And then the third one is in order to deal with the scare in order to deal with the agility that the customers want. The question is, well, are they doing the analytics? And many of them are adopting the cloud, and we've been seeing multicoloured adoption. So in order to get data to the cloud. Now you're dealing with the challenge of efficiency. I have limited network band with. I have a lot of data that I need to move around. How can I move all of that and do that more efficiently? And, uh, the only thing that would add to that is that beyond that, the mechanics of how you move the data with scale, with efficiency even in real time there's also how you approach the process where the whole solution is to beware. What a join those the operations you can implement and accommodate any type of architecture. I need to have a platform that you may choose and we sink us was changed those overtime. So I need a breather to be agile and flexible. >> Yeah, well, ah, Lotto unpack there because, you know, I just made the comment. You know, if you talk about us humans, the more data we give them doesn't mean I'm actually going to get better. It's I need to We need to be able to have those tool ings in there to be able to have that data and help give me the insights, which then I could do on otherwise, you know, we understand most people. It's like if I have to make decisions or choices and I get more thrown at me, there's less and less likelihood that I can do on that on boy the Data Lakes. Yeah, I I remember the first time I heard Data Lakes. It was, you know, we talked about what infrastructure rebuilding, and now the last couple of years, the cloud public cloud tends to be a big piece of it. Even though we know data is goingto live everywhere, you know everything, not just public private ground. But EJ gets into a piece of it so that you know that the data integration platform, you know how easy it for customers get started on that We'LL talk about that diversity of everything else, you know, Where do they start? Give me a little bit of kind of customer journey, if you would. And maybe even if you have a customer example that that would be a great way to go illustrated. >> Absolutely so First of all, it's a journey, and I think that journey started quite a few years ago. I mean, do it is now over ten years old, and they were actually seeing a big change in shifting the market from what was initially the Duke ecosystem into a much brother sort of technology's, especially with the cloud in order to store and process large scales of data. So the journey customs we're going through with a few years, which were very experimental customers were trying trying it on for size. They were trying to understand how Toby the process around it, the solutions of them ivory batch oriented with may produce back in the early days off. But when you look at it today, it's a very it's already evolved significantly, and you're saying this big data systems needing to support different and diverse type off workloads. Some of them are michelle machine learning and sign. Some of them are streaming in the Olympics. Some of them are serving data for micro services toe parad, Egil applications. So there's a lot of need for the data in the journey, and what we're seeing is that customers as they move through this journey, they sometimes need to people and they need if they find you technology that come out and they had the ability to be able to accommodate, to adapt and adopt new technologies as they go through. It s so that's kind of the journey we have worked with our customers through. And as they evolved, once they figured it out, this scale came along. So it's very common to see a customer start with a smaller project and then scale it up. So for many of the cost me worked with, that's how it worked out. And you ask for an example. So one of her customers this month, the world's largest automotive companies, and they decided to have a strategy to turn what they believe is a huge asset they have, which is data. But the data is in a lot of silos across manufacturing facility supply facilities and others inventory and bring it all together into one place. Combined data with data to bring from the car itself and by having all the data in one place, be able to derive new insights into information that they they can use as well as potentially sale or monetizing other other ways. So as they got started, they initially start by running it out to set a number off their data data centers and their source of information manufacturing facilities. So they started small. But then very quickly, once they figured out they can do it fast and figure out the process to scale it. Today, there are over five hundred systems they have. Martha is over two hundred billion changes in data being fed daily. Okay, enter their Data lake. So it's a very, very large scale system. I feel we can talk about what it takes to put together something so big. >> Yeah. Don't pleaded. Please take the next step. That would that would be perfect. >> Okay, so I think whether the key things customers have to understand, uh, you were saying that the enterprise architecture teams is that when you need to scale, you need to change the way you think about things. And in the end of the day, there are two fundamental differences in the approach and the other light technology that enabled that. So we talked earlier about the little things help for the mind to understand. Now I'm going to focus on and hide it. Only two that should be easy to take away. First is that they're the move from bench to real time or from batch tow. The Delta to the changes. Traditionally, data integration was done in the best process. You reload the data today if you want to scale. If you want to work in a real time, you need to work based on the Delta on the change, the fundamental technology behind it. It's called change data capture, and it's like technology and approach. It allows you to find and identify only the changes on the enterprise data systems and imagine all the innovation you can get by capturing, imposing or the change is. First of all, you have a significant impact on the systems. Okay, so we can scale because you were moving less data. It's very efficient as you move the data around because it's only a fraction off the data, and it could be real time because again, you capturing the data as it changes. So they move from bitch to real time or to streaming data based on changes. The capture is fundamental, fundamental in creating a more than their integration environment. >> I'm assuming there's an initial load that has to go in something like that, >> correct. But he did that once and then for the rest of the time you're really moving onto the deltas. The second difference, toe one was get moving from batch toe streaming based on change. The capture and the second eyes how you approach building it, which is moving from a development. Let platform to automation. So through automation, you could take workloads that have traditionally being in the realm ofthe the developer and allow people with out development skills to be able to implement such solutions very quickly. So again, the move from developer toe toe configuration based automation based products or what we've done opportunity is First, we have been one of the pioneers in the innovators in change that I capture technology. So the platform that now it's part of the clique that integration plan from brings with it okay over fifteen years off innovation and optimization change their capture with the broader set of data sources that our support there, with lots of optimization ranging from data sources like sickle server and Oracle, the mainstream toe mainframes and to escape system. And then one of the key focus with the head is how do we take complex processes and ultimatum. So from a user perspective, you can click a few buttons, then few knobs, and you have the optimize solution available for making data moving data across that they're very sets off systems. So through moving on to the Delta and the automation, you allow this cape. >> So a lot of the systems I'm familiar with it's the metadata you know, comes in the system. I don't have to as an admin or somebody's setting that up. I don't have to do all of this or even if you think about you know, the way I think of photos these days. It used to be. I took photos and trying to sort them was, you know, ridiculous. Now, my, you know, my apple or Google, you know, normally facial recognition, but timestamp location, all those things I can sort it and find it. You know, it's built into the system >> absolutely in the metadata is critical to us to the whole process. First of all, because when you bring data from one system to another system, somebody's to understand their data. And the process of getting data into a lake and into a data warehouse is becoming a multi step day the pipeline, and in order to trust the data and understanding that you need to understand all the steps that they went through. And we also see different teams taking part in this process. So for it seemed to be able to pick up the data and work on it, it needs to understand its meta data. By the way, this is also where the click their integration platform bring together the unity software. Together with Click the catalyst, we'LL provide unique value proposition for you that because you have the ability to capture changed data as it changes, deliver that data virtually anywhere. Any data lake, any cloud platform, any analytic platform. And then we find the data to generate analytic ready data sets and together with the click data Catalyst, create derivative data sets and publish all of their for a catalogue that makes it really easy to understand which data exists and how to use it. So we have an end to end solution for streaming data pipelines that generate analytic data that data sets for the end of the day, wrote to ready an accelerated fashion. >> So, Itamar, your customers of the world that out, How did they measures Casesa? Their critical KP eyes is there You know some, you know, journey, you know, math that they help go along. You know what? What? What are some commonalities? >> So it's a great question. And naturally, for many organizations, it's about an arrow. I It's about total cost of ownership. It seeing result, as I mentioned earlier, agility and the timeto value is really changing. Customers are looking to get results within a matter of, if very few month and even sometimes weeks versus what it used to be, which is many months and sometimes even years. So again, the whole point is to do with much, much faster. So from a metric for success, what we're seeing his customers that buy our solution toe enable again large scale strategic initiatives where they have dozens to hundreds of data sources. One of the key metrics is how many data sources heavy onboard that heavy, made available. How many in the end of the data sets that already analytic ready have we published or made available Torrey Tor users and I'LL give you an example. Another example from one of for customers, very large corporation in the United States in the opportunity of after trying to move to the cloud and build a cloud Data Lake and analytic platform. In the two years they're able to move to two three data sets to the cloud after they try, they knew they'd integration platform okay, there. But they moved thirty day The sits within three months, so completely different result. And the other thing that they pointed out and actually talk about their solution is that unlike traditional data integration software, and they took an example of one of those traditional PTL platforms and they pointed out it takes seven months to get a new person skilled on that platform. Okay, with our data integration platform, they could do that in a matter of hours to a few days. So again, the ability to get results much faster is completely different. When you have that kind of software that goes back to a dimension about automation versus development based mouth now, >> it really seems like the industry's going through another step function, just as we saw from traditional data warehouses. Tto win. Who? Duke rolled out that just the order of magnitude, how long it took and the business value return Seems like we're we're going through yet another step function there. So final thing. Yeah, You know what? Some of the first things that people usually get started with any final takeaways you want to share? >> Sure. First, for what people are starting to work with. Is there usually selecting a platform of choice where they're gonna get started in respect of whether Iran analytics and the one take a way I'LL give customers is don't assume that the platform you chose is we're going to end up because new technologies come to market, a new options come. Customers are having mergers, acquisitions, so things change all the time. And as you plan, make sure you have the right infrastructure toe allow you two kind of people support and make changes as you move through the throw. These are innovation. So they may be key key takeaway. And the other one is make sure that you're feeling the right infrastructure that can accommodate speed in terms of real time accomodate scale. Okay, in terms of both enabling data legs, letting cloud data stores having the right efficiency to scale, and then anything agility in respect to being able to deploy solution much, much faster. Yeah, >> well, tomorrow I think that. That's some real important things to say. Well, we know that the only constant Internet industry is change on DH. Therefore, we need to have solutions that can help keep up with that on and be able to manage those environments. And, you know, the the role of is to be able to respond to those needs of the business fast. Because if I don't choose the right thing, the business will go elsewhere. Tara trying to fuck with Angelo. Thank you so much for sharing all the latest on the immigration data platforms. Thank you. Alright, Uh, always lots more on the cube dot Net comes to minimum is always thanks for watching.

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue. Now here's your host. Still minimum. >> Hi, I'm student men and welcome to a special edition of Cube conversations here in our Boston area studio. Habito. Welcome to the program. First of all, to my right, a first time guests on the program Drew Clark, Who's the chief strategy officer? A click and welcome back to the program tomorrow on Carryon. Who's a senior vice president of enterprise data integration now with Click but new title to to the acquisition of Eternity. So thanks so much for joining us, gentlemen. >> Great to be here. >> All right, True, You know, to Nitti we've had on the program anytime we haven't click on the program, but maybe for audience just give us a quick level set on Click. And you know the acquisition, you know, is some exciting news. So let's start there and we'LL get into it. >> Sure, thanks. Teo and Click were a twenty five year old company and the business analytics space. A lot of people know about our products. Clint View, Click Sense. We have fifty thousand customers around the world and from large companies, too kind of small organizations. >> Yeah. Alright. Eso you No way. Talk a lot about data on our program. You know, I looked through some of the clique documentation. It resonated with me a bit because when we talk about digital transformation on our program, the key thing that different to the most between the old way of doing things the modern is I need to be data driven. They need to make my decision the the analytics piece of that s o it. Tomorrow, let's start there and talk about, you know, other than you know, that the logo on your card changes. You know what's the same? What's different going forward for you? >> Well, first, we were excited about that about this merger and the opportunity that we see in the market because there's a huge demand for data, presumably for doing new types of analytics business intelligence. They they's fueling the transformation. And part of the main challenge customers have organizations have is making more data available faster and putting it in the hands of the people who need it. So, on our part of the coming from eternity, we spend the last few years innovating and creating technology that they helped car organizations and modernize how they create new day. The architecture's to support faster data, more agility in terms ofthe enabling data for analytics. And now, together with Click, we can continue to expand that and then the end of the day, provide more data out to more people. >> S o. You know, Drew, it's interesting, you know that there's been no shortage of data out there. You know, we've for decades been talking about the data growth, but actually getting access store data. It's in silos more than ever. It's, you know, spread out all over the day. We say, you know, the challenge of our time is really building distributed architectures and data is really all over the place and, you know, customers. You know, their stats all over the places to how much a searchable how much is available. You know how much is usable? So, you know, explain a little bit, you know, kind of the challenge you're facing. And you know how you're helping move customers along that journey? >> Well, what you bring up stew is thie kind of the idea of kind of data and analytics for decision making and really, it's about that decision making to go faster, and you're going to get into that right kind of language into the right individuals. And we really believe in his concept of data literacy and data literacy was said, I think, well, between two professors who co authored a white paper. One professor was from M I t. The other one's from ever sin college, a communication school. Data literacy is the kind of the ability to read, understand, analyze and argue with data. And the more you can actually get that working inside an organization, the better you have from a decision making and the better competitive advantage you have your evening or wind, you're going to accomplish a mission. And now with what you said, the proliferation of data, it gets harder. And where do you find it? And you need it in real time, and that's where the acquisition of opportunity comes in. >> Okay, I need to ask a follow up on that. So when a favorite events I ever did with two other Emmett professors, yes, where Boston area. We're putting a lot >> of the >> mighty professors here, but any McAfee and Erik Nilsson talked about racing with the machine because, you know, it's so great, you know? You know who's the best chess player out there? Was it you know, the the human grandmaster, or was that the computer? And, you know, the studies were actually is if you put the grandmaster with the computer, they could actually beat either the best computer or the best person. So when you talk about, you know, the data and analytics everybody's looking at, you know, the guy in the ML pieces is like, OK, you know, how do these pieces go together? How does that fit into the data literacy piece? You know, the people and, you know, the machine learning >> well where you bring up is the idea of kind of augmenting the human, and we believe very much around a cognitive kind of interface of kind of the technology, the software with kind of a person and that decision making point. And so what you'LL see around our own kind of perspective is that we were part of a second generation be eye of like self service, and we've moved rapidly into this third generation, which is the cognitive kind of augmentation and the decision maker, right? And so you say this data literacy is arguing with data. Well, how do you argue and actually have the updated machine learning kind of recommendations? But it's still human making that decision. And that's an important kind of component of our kind of, like, our own kind of technology that we bring to the table. But with the two nitti, that's the data side needs to be there faster and more effective. >> Yeah. So, Itamar, please. You know Phyllis in on that. That data is the, you know, we would in big data, we talk about the three V's. So, you know, where are we today? How dowe I be ableto you know, get in leverage all of that data. >> So that's exactly where we've been focused over the last few years and worked with customers that were focused on building new data lakes, new data warehouses, looking at the clouds, building basically more than new foundations for enabling the organization to use way more data than every before. So it goes back to the volume at least one V out of the previous you mentioned. And the other one, of course, is the velocity. And how fast it is, and I've actually come to see that there are, in a sense, two dimensions velocity that come come together. One is how timely is the data you're using. And one of the big changes we're seeing in the market is that the user expectation and the business need for real time data is becoming ever more critical. If we used to talkto customers and talk about real time data because when they asked her data, they get a response very quickly. But it's last week's data. Well, that's not That doesn't cut it. So what we're seeing is that, first of all, the dimension of getting data that Israel Time Day that represents the data is it's currently second one is how quickly you can actually make that happen. So because business dynamics change match much faster now, this speed of change in the industry accelerates. Customers need the ability to put solutions together, make data available to answer business questions really faster. They cannot do it in the order ofthe month and years. They need to do it indoors off days, sometimes even hours. And that's where our solutions coming. >> Yeah, it's interesting. You know, my backgrounds. On the infrastructure side, I spent a lot of time in the cloud world. And, you know, you talk about, you know, health what we need for real time. Well, you know, used to be, you know, rolled out a server. You know, that took me in a week or month and a V m it reduced in time. Now we're, you know, containerized in communities world. And you know what? We're now talking much sort of time frame, and it's like, Oh, if you show me the way something was, you know, an hour ago. Oh, my gosh, That's not the way the world is. And I think, you know, for years we talked to the Duke world. You know what Israel time and how do I really define that? And the answer. We usually came up. It is getting the right information, you know, in the right place, into the right person. Or in the sales standpoint, it's like I need that information to save that client. They get what they need. So we still, you know, some of those terms, you know, scale in real time, short of require context. But you know what? Where does that fit into your customer discussions. >> Well, >> to part says, you bring up. You know, I think what you're saying is absolutely still true. You know, right? Data, right person, right time. It gets harder, though, with just the volumes of data. Where is it? How do you find it? How do you make sure that it's It's the the right pieces to the right place and you brought up the evolution of just the computer infrastructure and analytics likes to be close to the data. But if you have data everywhere, how do you make sure that part works? And we've been investing in a lot of our own Cloud Analytics infrastructure is now done on a micro services basis. So is running on Cuban eighties. Clusters it Khun work in whatever cloud compute infrastructure you want, be it Amazon or zur or Google or kind of your local kind of platform data centers. But you need that kind of small piece tied to the right kind of did on the side. And so that's where you see a great match between the two solutions and when you in the second part is the response from our customer's on DH after the acquisition was announced was tremendous. We II have more customer who works in a manufacturing space was I think this is exactly what I was looking to do from an analytic spaces I needed. Mohr did a real time and I was looking at a variety of solutions. She said, Thank you very much. You made my kind of life a little easier. I can narrow down Teo. One particular platform s so we have manufacturing companies. We have military kind of units and organizations. Teo Healthcare organizations. I've had just countless kind of feedback coming in along that same kind of questions. All >> right, Amaar, you know, for for for the eternity. Customers, What does this mean for them coming into the click family? >> Well, first of all, it means for them that we have a much broader opportunity to serve them. Click is a much, much bigger company. We have more resources. We can put a bear to both continuing enhance The opportunity. Offering is well as creating integrations with other products, such as collecting the click Data catalyst, which are click acquired several months ago. And there's a great synergy between those the products to the product and the collected a catalyst to provide a much more comprehensive, more an enterprise data integration platform, then beyond there to create, also see energies with other, uh, click analytic product. So again, while the click their integration platform consisting Opportunity and Click the catalyst will be independent and provide solutions for any data platform Analytic platform Cloud platform is it already does. Today we'LL continue to investigate. There's also opportunities to create unique see energies with some afar clicks technologies such as the associative Big Data Index and some others to provide more value, especially its scale. >> All right, eso drew, please expand on that a little bit if you can. There's so many pieces I know we're going to spend a little bit. I'm going deeper and some some of the other ones. But when you talk to your customers when you talk to your partners, what do you want to make sure there their key takeaways are >> right. So there is a couple of important points Itamar you made on the data integration platform, and so that's a combination of the eternity products plus the data catalysts, which was, you know, ca wired through podium data. Both of those kind of components are available and will continue to be available for our customers to use on whatever analytics platform. So we have customers who use the data for data science, and they want to work in our python and their own kind of machine learning or working with platforms like data robots. And they'LL be able to continue to do that with that same speed. They also could be using another kind of analytical visualization tool. And you know, we actually have a number of customers to do that, and we'LL continue to support that. So that's the first point, and I think you made up, which is the important one. The second is, while we do think there is some value with using Click Sense with the platform, and we've been investing on a platform called the Associative Big Data Index, and that sounds like a very complicated piece. But it's what we've done is taken are kind of unique kind of value. Proposition is an analytical company which is thehe, bility, toe work with data and ask questions of it and have the answers come to you very quickly is to be able to take that same associative experience, uh, that people use in our product and bring it down to the Data Lake. And that's where you start to see that same kind of what people love about click, view and click sense and brought into the Data Lake. And that's where Tamara was bringing up from a scale kind of perspective. So you have both kind of opportunities, >> Drew, and I really appreciate you sharing the importance of these coming together. We're going to spend some more time digging into the individual pieces there. I might be able to say, OK, are we passed the Data Lakes? Has it got to a data swamp or a data ocean? Because, you know, there are lots of sources of data and you know the like I always say Is that seems a little bit more pristine than the average environment. Eso But thank you so much and look forward to having more conversations with thanks to all right, you. And be sure to, uh, check out the cute dot net for all our videos on stew minimum. Thanks so much for watching

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue. Here's your host. Still Minutemen. >> Hi, I'm Stew Minutemen. And welcome to a special cute conversation here in our Boston Areas studio where in spring 2019 whole lot of shows where the cubes gonna be on going to lots of events so many different technologies were covering on one of the areas we always love to be able to dig into is what's happening with the users. Many of these shows, we go to our user conferences as well as the community. Really happy to Boca Burger. Believe first time on the program. Steve Methodists famous. Who is the newly elected president of the mug s. So I think most of Ronan should know the V mug organization to the VM where User group. We've done cube events at, you know, the most related events. Absolute talked about the mug we've had, you know, the CEO of the mug on the program. And of course, the VM were Community 2019 will be the 10th year of the Cube at VM World. Still figuring out if we should do a party and stuff like that. We know all the ins and outs of what happened at that show. But you know the V mugs itself? I've attended many. Your Boston V mug is one that I've been, too. But before we get into the mug stuff, Steve could just give us a little bit of your back, because you are. You're practicing your user yourself. >> Yeah, well, first thanks for having me. You know what? I've been watching the cube for years, and it's ah, it's great to be on this side of the of the screen, right? So, yes. So I'm Steve. I think I, you know, show up every day as the associate chief information officer of the University of Massachusetts. Little just for 95 here, and that's my day job. That's my career, right? But what? You know what? I'm excited to be here to talk about what I'm excited in general with the mug is it's a community organization. And so it's a volunteer gig, and that's true of all of our leadership, right? So the from the president of the board of directors to our local leaders around the world, they're all volunteers, and that's I think, what makes it special is We're doing this because we're excited about it. We're passionate about it. >> Yeah, you know the mugs, It's, you know, created by users for user's. You go to them, talk a little bit. It's evolved a lot, you know, It started as just a bunch of independent little events. Is now you know, my Twitter feed. I feel like constantly every day. It's like, Oh, wait, who is at the St Louis? The Wisconsin one? I'll get like ads for like, it's like a weight is the Northeast one. I'm like, Oh, is that here in New England that I don't know about? No, no, no. It's in the UK on things like that. So I get ads and friends around the world and I love seeing the community. So, boy, how do you guys keep it all straight? Man, is that allow both the organic nature as well as some of the coordination and understanding of what's going on. How do you balance that? >> Yeah, that's a great question. And you know, So I was a V mug member for many, many years before I ever got interested in becoming a leader, and you're right it when it started, it was 10 of us would get around with a six pack of beer and a box of pizza, right? And we'd be talking shop and that, you know, that was awesome. And that's what would that was, how it started. But you get to a certain scale when you start talking about having 50,000 now, over 125,000 members around the world. You gotta coordinate that somehow you're right on the money with that. And so that's why you know, we have, you know, a strong, um, coordination effort that is our offices down in Nashville, Tennessee, and their their role is to enable our leaders to give back to their community and take the burden out of running these things. You know, sourcing venues and, you know, working with hotels and stuff. That is effort that not everybody wants to do all the time. And so to do that for them lets them focus on the really cool stuff which is the tech and connecting users. >> Yeah. Can you speak a little bit too? You know what were some of the speeds and feed to the event? How many do you have How much growing, you know, Like I'm signed up. I get the newsletter for activities as well as you know, lots of weapons. I've spoken on some of the webinars too. >> Yeah, well, first thanks for that s o. We have over 30 user cons around the world on three continents. >> In fact, what's the user cough? >> Great questions. So user kind is user conference, you know, consolidated into user Connery. And those are hundreds of end users getting together around the world were on three continents. In fact, I was fortunate enough in March, I went to Australia and I spoke at Sydney and Melbourne on That was awesome, getting to meet users literally, almost a sw far away from Boston. As you can get having the same challenges in the office day today, solving the same business problems with technology. So that was exciting. And so we've got those all over. We also have local meetings which are, you know, smaller in scope and often more focused on content. We've got 235 or Maur local chapters around the world. They're talking about this, and so we're really engaged at multiple levels with this and like you talk about. We have the online events which are global in scope. And we do those, you know, we time so that people in our time zone here in the States could get to them as well as folks in, you know, e m b A and a factory. >> Yeah, and I have to imagine the attendees have to vary. I mean, is it primarily for, you know, Sylvie, um, where admin is the primary title there up to, you know, people that are CEOs or one of the CEOs? >> Yes. So that actually we've seen that change over the past couple years, which is exciting for me being in the role that I'm in is you're right historically was vey Sphere admits, right? And we're all getting together. We're talking about how do we partition our lungs appropriately, right? And now it has switched. We see a lot more architect titles. We Seymour director titles coming in because, you know, I said the other day I was in Charlotte talking and I said, You know, business is being written in code, right? And so there's a lot more emphasis on what it's happening with V m wearing his VM worth portfolio expands. We've got a lot of new type of members coming into the group, which is exciting. >> Yeah, And what about the contents out? How much of it is user generated content versus VM were content and then, you know, I understand sponsorships or part of it vendors. The vendor ecosystem, which vm where has a robust ecosystem? Yes, you know, help make sure that it's financially viable for things to happen and as well as participate in the contest. >> Yes, I feel like I almost planted that question because it's such a good one. So, you know, in 2018 we started putting a strong emphasis on community content because we were, you know, we heard from remembers that awesome VM were content, awesome partner content. But we're starting to miss some of the user to user from the trenches, battle war stories, right? And so we put an emphasis on getting that back in and 2018 we've doubled down in 2019 in a big way, so if you've been to a user kind yet in 2019 but we've limited the number of sponsors sessions that we have, right so that we have more room for community content. We're actually able to get people from around the world to these events. So again, me and a couple folks from the States went toe Australia to share our story and then user story, right? And at the end of the day, we used to have sponsored sessions to sort of close it out. Now we have a community, our right, and Sophie Mug provides food and beverages and a chance to get together a network. And so that is a great community. Our and you know, I was at one recently and I was able to watch Ah, couple folks get to them. We're talking about different problems. They're having this and let me get your card so we can touch base on this later, which at the end of the day, that's what gets me motivated. That's what >> it's about. It's Steve. I won't touch on that for a second. You know what? Get you motivated. You've been doing this for years. You're, you know, putting your time in your president. I know. When I attended your Boston V mark the end of the day, it was a good community member talking about career and got some real good, you know, somebody we both know and it really gets you pumped up in something very, a little bit different from there. So talk a little bit without kind of your goals. For a CZ president of Emma, >> Sure eso I get excited about Vima because it's a community organization, right? And because, you know, I've said this a bunch of times. But for me, what excites me is it's a community of people with similar interests growing together right and reinforcing each other. I know for a fact that I can call ah whole bunch of people around the world and say, Hey, I'm having a problem technically or hey, I'm looking for some career advice or hey, one of my buddies is looking for work. Do you know of any opening somewhere? And that's really powerful, right? Because of the end of the day, I think the mug is about names and people and not logos, right? And so that's what it motivates me is seeing the change and the transformation of people and their career growth that V mug can provide. In fact, I know ah ton of people from Boston. In fact, several of them have. You know, they were administrators at a local organization. Maybe they moved into partners. Maybe they moved into vendors. Maybe they stay where they are, and they kept accelerating their growth. But I've seen tons of career growth and that that gets me excited watching people take the next step to be ableto to build a >> career, I tell you, most conferences, I go to the kind of jobs take boards, especially if you're kind of in the hot, cool new space they're all trying to hire. But especially when you go to a local on the smaller events, it's so much about the networking and the people. When I go to a local user, event it. Hey, what kind of jobs you hiring for who you're looking for and who do I know that's looking for those kind of things and trying to help connect? You know, people in cos cause I mean, you know, we all sometime in our career, you know we'll need help alone those lines that I have, something that's personally that you know, I always love to help >> you. I have a friend who said it. I think best, and I can't take credit for this, right? But it's It can be easy to get dismissed from your day job, right? One errant click could be the career limiting click. It is nigh impossible to be fired from the community, right? And that that, to me, is a powerful differentiator for folks that are plugged into a community versus those that are trying to go it >> alone. Yeah, there are some community guidelines that if you don't follow, you might be checking for sure, but no, if if we're there in good faith and we're doing everything like out, tell me it's speaking. You know, this is such, you know, change. Is this the constant in our world? You know, I've been around in the interview long enough. That's like, you know, I remember what the, um where was this tiny little company that had, you know, once a week, they had a barbecue for everybody in the company because they were, like, 100 of them. And, you know, you know, desktop was what they started working on first. And, you know, we also hear stories about when we first heard about the emotion and the like. But, you know, today you know Veum world is so many different aspects. The community is, you know, in many ways fragmented through so many different pieces. What are some of the hot, interesting things? How does seem a deal with the Oh, hey, I want the Aye Aye or the Dev Ops or the you know where where's the vmc cloud versus all these various flavors? How do you balance all that out? All these different pieces of the community? >> Yeah, it's an interesting question. And to be fair with you, I think that's an area that were still getting better at. And we're still adapting to write. You know, if you look at V mug Five years ago, we were the V's fear, sort of first, last and always right. And now you know, especially is VM. Where's portfolio keeps increasing and they keep moving into new areas. That's new areas for us, too. And so, you know, we've got a big, uh, initiative over the next year to really reach out and and see where we can connect with, you know, the kubernetes environment, right? Cause that the hefty oh acquisition is a really big deal. and I think fundamentally changes or potential community, right? And so you know, we've launched a bunch of special interest groups over the span of the past couple years, and I think that's a big piece of it, which is, if you're really interested in networking and security, here's an area that you can connect in and folks that are like minded. If you're really interested in and user computing, here's what you can connect into. And so I think, you know, as we continue to grow and you know, we're, you know, hundreds of thousands of people now around the world so that you can be a challenge. But I think it's It's also a huge opportunity for us to be ableto keep building that connection with folks and saying, Hey, you know, as you continue to move through your career, it's not always gonna be this. You're right. Change is constant. So hey, what's on the horizon for >> you? When I look at like the field organization for being where boy, I wonder when we're gonna have the sand and NSX user groups just because there's such a strong emphasis on the pieces, the business right now? Yeah, All right, Steve, let's change that for a second. Sure said, You know, you're you got CEO is part of your title, their eyes, what you're doing. Tell me about your life these days and you know the stresses and strains And what what's changing these days and what's exciting? You >> sure? So you know, it's exciting to have moved for my career because I'm an old school admin, right? I mean, that's my background. Uh, so, you know, as I've progressed, you know, I keep getting different things in my portfolio, right? So it started out as I was, you know, I was the admin, and then I was managing the systems engineering team. And then they added desktop support that was out of necessity was like, I'm not really a dustup person, right? So something new you need to learn. But then you start seeing where these synergies are, right? Not to hate, like the words energies. But the reality is that's where we launched our VD. I project at U Mass. Lowell, and that has been transformative for how we deliver education. And it has been a lot of ways. Reduced barriers to students to get access to things they couldn't before. So we had engineering students that would have to go out and finance a 3 $4000 laptop to get the horsepower to do their work. Now, that can use a chromebook, right? They don't have to have that because we do that for them and just they have to have any device t get access via via where horizon. Right, So that happened, and then, you know, then they moved in. Our service is operation, right? So what I'm interested now is how do we deliver applications seamlessly to users to give them the best possible experience without needing to think about it? Because if you and I have been around long enough that it used to be a hassle to figure out okay, I need to get this done. That means they need to get this new applications I have to go to I t there and I have my laptop. Now it's the expectation is just like you and I really want to pull out my phone now and go to the APP store and get it right. So how do we enable that to make it very seamless and remove any friction to people getting their work >> done? Yeah, absolutely. That the enterprise app store is something we've talked about is not just the Amazon marketplace these days. >> In some ways, it is so not all applications rate. Some applications are more specific to platforms. And so that's a challenge, which is, you know, I'm a professor. I really like my iPad. Well, how do I get S P ss on that? Okay, well, let me come up with some solutions. >> Yeah, it's interesting. I'm curious if you have any thoughts just from the education standpoint, how that ties into i t. Personally myself, I think I was in my second job out of school before I realized I was in the i t industry because I studied engineering they didn't teach us about. Oh, well, here's the industry's You're working. I knew tech, and I knew various pieces of it and, you know, was learning networking and all these various pieces there. But, you know, the industry viewpoint as a technology person wasn't something. I spend a lot of time. I was just in a conference this week and they were talking about, you know, some of the machine learning pieces. There was an analyst got up on stage is like here I have a life hack for you, he said. What you need to do is get a summer intern that's been at least a junior in college that studied this stuff, and they can educate you on all these cool new things because those of us have been here a while that there's only tools and they're teaching them at the universities. And therefore that's one of those areas that even if you have years, well, if you need to get that retraining and they can help with that >> no, that's that to me is one of most exciting parts about working in education is that our faculty are constantly pushing us in new directions that we haven't even contemplated yet. So we were buying GPU raise in order to start doing a I. Before I even knew why we were doing and there was like, Hey, I need this and I was like, Are you doing like a quake server? Like they were mining Bitcoins? I don't think so, but it was, you know, that was that was that was an area for us and now we're old. Had it this stuff, right? And so that is a exciting thing to be able to partner with people that are on the bleeding edge of innovation and hear about the work that they're doing and not just in in the tech field, but how technology is enabling Other drew some groundbreaking research in, you know, the life sciences space that the technology is enabling in a way that it wasn't possible before. In fact, I had one faculty member tell me, Geez, maybe six months ago. That said, the laboratory of the past is beakers and Silla scopes, right? The laboratory of the future is how many cores can you get? >> Yeah, all right, So next week is Del Technologies world. So you know the show. The combination of what used to be A M, C World and Del World put together a big show expecting around 15,000 people in Las Vegas to be the 10th year actually of what used to be M. C world. We actually did a bunch of dead worlds together. For me personally, it's like 17 or 18 of the M C world that I've been, too, just because disclaimer former emcee employees. So V mugs there on dhe, Maybe explain. You know, the mugs roll there. What you're looking to accomplish what you get out of a show like that. >> Sure. So V mug is a part of the affiliation of del Technologies user communities. Right? And what I love about user communities is they're not mutually exclusive, right? You absolutely can. Being a converged and Avi mug and a data protection user group. It's all about what fits your needs and what you're doing back in the office. And, you know, we're excited to be there because there's a ton of the move members that are coming to Deltek World, right? And so we're there to support our community and be a resource for them. And that's exciting for us because, you know, Del Del Technologies World is a whole bunch of really cool attack that were that were seeing people run vm were on Ray. We're seeing via more partner with, and so that's exciting for us. >> Yeah, and it's a try. Hadn't realized because, like, I've been to one of the converted user group events before, didn't realize that there was kind of an affiliation between those but makes all the sense in the world. >> Yeah, right. And it's, you know, again, it's an open hand thing, right? Beaten and one being the other. You realize them both. For what? They're what They're great at connecting with people that are doing the same thing. There's a ton of people running VM wear on. Ah, myriad. Like you talked about earlier VM Where's partner? Ecosystem is massive, right? But many, many, many in fact, I would say a huge majority of converged folks are running VM we're >> on it. All right. So, Steve want to give you the final word? What's the call to action? Understand? A lot of people in the community, but always looking from or always, ways for people to get involved. So where do they go? What? What would you recommend? >> Yeah, thanks. So if if you are not plugged into user community now, when you're in the tech field, I would strongly encourage you to do so. Right? V mug, obviously, is the one that's closest to my heart, right? If you're in that space, we'd love to have you as part of our community. And it's really easy. Go to V mug. dot com and sign up and see where the next meet up is and go there, right? If you're not into the VM where space and I know you have lots of folks that air, they're doing different things. Go check out your community, right? But I tell you, the career advantages to being in a user community are immense, and I frankly was able to track my career growth from admin to manager to director to associate CEO, right alongside my community involvement. And so it's something I'm passionate about, and I would encourage everybody to check out. >> Yeah, it's Steve. Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, I give a personal plug on this. There are a lot of communities out there, the virtual ization community, especially the VM. One specifically is, you know, a little bit special from the rest. You know, I've seen it's not the only one, but is definitely Maur of. It's definitely welcoming. They're always looking for feedback, and it's a good collaborative environment. I've done surveys in the group that you get way better feedback than I do in certain other sectors in just so many people that are looking to get involved. So it's one that you know, I'm not only interviewing, but, you know, I can personally vouch for its steeple. Thank you. Thank you so much. Always a pleasure to see you. >> Thanks for having me. >> Alright. And be sure to check out the cube dot net. Of course, we've got dealt technologies world in the immediate future. Not that long until we get to the end of summer. And vm World 2019 back in San Francisco, the Q will be there. Double set. So for both del world del Technologies world and VM World. So come find us in Las Vegas. If you're Adele or Mosconi West in the lobby is where will be for the emerald 2019 and lots and lots of other shows. So thank you so much for watching. Thank you.

>> From the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts, it's the Cube. Now here's your host Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to the Cube's Boston area studio. This is a Cube conversation. Happy to welcome to the program first time guest Benjamin Nye, CEO of Turbonomic, a Boston-based company. Ben, thanks so much for joining us. >> Stu, thanks for having me. >> Alright Ben, so as we say, we are fortunate to live in interesting times in our industry. Distributed architectures are what we're all working on, but at the same day, there's a lot of consolidation going on. You know, just put this in context. Just in recent past, IBM spent 34 billion dollars to buy Red Hat. And the reason I bring that up is a lot of people talk about you know, it's a hybrid multi-cloud world. What's going on? The thing I've been saying for a couple of years is as users, two things you need to watch. Care about their data an awful lot. That's what drives businesses. And what drives the data really? It's their applications. >> Perfect. >> And that's where Turbonomic sits. Workload automation is where you are. And that's really the important piece of multi-cloud. Maybe give our audience a little bit of context as to why this really, IBM buying Red Hat fits into the general premise of why Turbonomic exists. >> Super. So the IBM Red Hat combination I think is really all about managing workloads. Turbonomic has always been about managing workloads and actually Red Hat was an investor, is an investor in Turbonomic, particularly for open stack, but more importantly open shift now. When you think about the plethora of workloads, we're gonna have 10 to one number of workloads relative to VMs and so worth when you look at microservices and containers. So when you think about that combination, it's really, it's an important move for IBM and their opportunity to plan hybrid and multi-cloud. They just announced the IBM multi-cloud manager, and then they said wait a minute, we gotta get this thing to scale. Obviously open shift and Red Hat is scale. 8.9 million developers in their community and the opportunity to manage those workloads across on-prim and off in a cloud-native format is critical. So relate that to Turbo. Turbo is really about managing any workload in any environment anywhere at all times. And so we make workloads smart, which is self-managing anywhere real time, which allows the workloads themselves to care for their own performance assurance, policy adherence, and cost effectiveness. And when you can do that, then they can run anywhere. That's what we do. >> Yeah, Ben, bring us inside of customers. When people hear applications and multi-cloud, there was the original thing. Oh well, I'm gonna be able to burst to the cloud. I'm gonna be moving things all the time. Applications usually have data behind them. There's gravity, it's not easy to move them. But I wanna be able to have that flexibility of if I choose a platform, if I move things around, I think back to the storage world. Migration was one of the toughest things out there and something that I spent the most time and energy to constantly deal with. What do you see today when it comes to those applications? How do they think about them? Do they build them one place and they're static? Is it a little bit more modular now when you go to microservices? What do you see and hear? >> Great, so we have over 2,100 accounts today including 20% of the Fortune 500, so a pretty good sample set to be able to describe this. What I find is that CIOs today and meet with many of them, I want either born in the cloud, migrate to the cloud, or run my infrastructure as cloud. And what they mean is they want, they're seeking greater agility and elasticity than they've ever had. And workloads thrive in that environment. So as we decompose the applications and decompose the infrastructure and open it up, there's now more places to run those different workloads and they seek the flexibility to be able to create applications much more quickly, set up environments a lot faster, and then they're more than happy to pay for what they use. But they get tired of the waste candidly of the traditional legacy environments. And so there's a constant evolution for how do I take those workloads and distribute them to the proper location for them to run most performantly, most cost effectively, and obviously with all the compliance requirements of security and data today. >> Yeah, I'm wondering if you could help connect the dots for us. In the industry, we talk a lot about digital transformation. >> Yeah. >> If we said two or three years ago was a lot of buzz around this, when I talk to N users today, it's reality. Absolutely, it's not just, oh I need to be mobile and online and everything. What do you hear and how do my workloads fit into that discussion? >> So it's an awesome subject. When you think about what's going on in the industry today, it's the largest and fastest re-platforming of IT ever. Okay, so when you think about for example at the end of 2017, take away dollars and focus on workloads. There were 220 million workloads. 80% were still on prim. For all the growth in the cloud, it was still principally an on prim market. When you look now forward, the differential growth rates, 63% average growth across the cloud vendors, alright, in the IAS market. And I'm principally focused on AWS and Ajur. And only 3% growth rate in the on premise market. Down from five years ago and continuing a decline because of the expense, fergility, and poor performance that customers are receiving. So the re-platforming is going on and customers' number one question is, can you help me run my workloads in each of these three environments? So to your point, we're not yet where people are bursting these workloads in between one environment and another. My belief is that will come. But in today's world, you basically re-platform those workloads. You put them in a certain environment, but now you gotta make sure that you run them well performantly and cost effectively in those environments. And that's the digital transformation. >> Okay. So Ben, I think back to my career. If I turn back the clock even two decades, intelligence, automation, things we were talking about, it's different today. When I talk to the people building software, re-platforming, doing these things today, machine learning and AI, whatever favorite buzzword you have in that space is really driving significant changes into this automation space. I think back to early days of Turbonomic. I think about kinda the virtualization environments and the like. How does automation intelligence, how is it different today than it was say, when the company was founded? >> Wow. Well so for one, we've had to expand to this hybrid and multi-cloud world, right? So we've taken our data model which is AI ops, and driven it out to include Ajur and AWS. But the reason would say why. Why is that important? And ultimately, when people talk about AI ops, what they really mean whether it's on prim or off, is resource-aware applications. I can no longer affect performance by manually running around and doing the care and feeding and taking these actions. It's just wasteful. And in the days where people got around that by over-provisioning on prim sometimes as much as 70 or 80% if you look at the resource actually used, it was far too expensive. Now take that to the cloud, to the public cloud, which is a variable cost environment and I pay for that over-provisioning every second of the rest of my life and it's just prohibitive. So if I want to leverage the elasticity and agility of the cloud, I have to do it in a smarter measure and that requires analytics. And that's what Turbonomic provides. >> Yeah and actually I really like the term AI ops. I wonder if you can put a little bit of a point on that because there are many admins and architects out there that they hear automation and AI and say, oh my gosh, am I gonna be put out of a job? I'm doing a lot of these things. Most people we know in IT, they're probably doing way more than they'd like to and not necessarily being as smart with it. So how does the technology plus the people, how does that dynamic change? >> So what's fascinating is if you think about the role of tech, it was to remove some of the labor intensity in business. But when you then looked inside of IT, it's the most labor intensive business you can find, right? So the whole idea was let's not have people doing low value things. Let's do them high value. So today when we virtualize an unpremised estate, we know that we can share it. Run two workloads side by side, but when a workload spikes or a noisy neighbor, we congest the physical infrastructure. What happens then is that it gets so bad that the application SLA breaks. Alerts go off and we take super expensive engineers to go find hopefully troubleshoot and find root cause. And then do a non-disruptive action to move a workload from one host to another. Imagine if you could do that through pure analytics and software. And that's what our AI ops does. What we're allowing is the workloads themselves will pick the resources that are least congested on which to run. And when they do that rather than waiting for it to break and then try and fix it people, we just let it take that action on its own and trigger a V motion and put it into a much happier state. That's how we can assure performance. We'll also check all the compliance and policies that govern those workloads before we make a move so you can always know that you're in keeping with your affinity-in affinity rules, your HADR policies, your data sovereignty, all these different myriad of regulations. Oh and by the way, it'll be a lot more cost effective. >> Alright, Ben, you mentioned V motion. So people that know virtualization, this was kind of magic when we first saw it to be able to give me mobility with my workloads. Help modernize us with cubernetties. Where does that fit in your environment? How does multi-cloud world, as far as I see, cubernetties does not break the laws of physics and allow me to do V motion across multi-clouds. So where does cubernetties fit in your environment? And maybe you can give us a little bit of compare contrast of kinda the virtualization world and cubernetties, where that fits. >> Sure, so we look at containers or the pods, a grouping of containers, as just another form of liquidity that allows workloads to move, alright? And so again we're decomposing applications down to the level of microservices. And now the question you have to ask yourself is when demand increases on an application or on indeed a container, am I to scale up that container or should I clone it and effectively scale it out? And that seems like a simple question, but when you're looking at it at huge amounts of scale, hundreds of containers or pods per workload or per VM, now the question is, okay, whichever way I choose, it can't be right unless I've also factored the imposition I'm putting on the VM in which that container and or pod sits. Because if I'm adding memory in one, I have to add it to the other 'cause I'm stressing the VM differentially, right? Or should I actually clone the VM as well and run that separately? And then there's another layer, the IAS layer. Where should that VM run? In the same host and cluster and data center if it's on prim or in the same availability zone and region if it's off prim? Those questions all the way down the stack are what need to be answered. And no one else has an answer for that. So what we do is we instrument a cubernetties or an open shift or even on the other side a cloud foundry and we actually make the scheduler live and what we call autonomic. Able to interrelate the demand all the way down through the various levels of the stack to assure performance, check the policy, and make sure it's cost effective. And that's what we're doing. So we actually allow the interrelationship between the containers and their schedulers all the way down through the virtual layer and into the physical layer. >> Yeah, that's impressive. You really just did a good job of explaining all of those pieces. One of the challenges when I talk to users, they're having a real hard time keeping up. (laughing) We said I've started to figure out my cloud environment. Oh wait, I need to do things with containers. Oh wait, I hear about the server-less thing. What are some of the big challenges you're hearing from customers? Who do they turn to to help them stay on top of the things that are important for their business? >> So I think finding the sources of information now in the information age when everything has gone to software or virtual or cloud has become harder. You don't get it all from the same one or two monolithic vendors, strategic vendors. I think they have to come to the Cube as an example of where to find this information. That's why we're here. But I think in thinking about this, there's some interesting data points. First on the skills gap, okay, Accentra did a poll of their customer base and found that only 14% of their customers thought they had the requisite skills on staff to warrant their moves to the cloud. Think about that number, so 86% don't. And here's another one. When you get this wrong, there's some fascinating data that says 80% of customers receive a cloud bill north of three times what they expected to spend. Now just think about. Now I don't know which number's bigger frankly, Stu. Is it the 80% or the three times? But there's the conversation. Hey, boss, I just spent the entire annual budget in a little over a quarter. You still wanna get that cup of coffee? (laughing) So the costs of being wrong are enormously expensive. And then imagine if I'm not governing the policies and my workloads wind up in a country that they're not meant to per data sovereignty. And then we get breached. We have a significant problem there from a compliance standpoint. And the beauty is software can manage all this and automation can help alleviate the constrain of the skills gap that's going on. >> Yeah, you're totally right. I think back to five years ago, I was at Amazon Reinvent. And they had a tool that started to monitor a little bit of are you actually using the stuff that you're paying for? And there were customers walking out and saying, I can save 60 to 70% over what I was doing. Thank you Amazon for helping to point that out. When I lived on the data center side and vendors that sold stuff, I couldn't imagine if your sales rep came and said, hey, we deployed this stuff and we know you spent millions of dollars. It seems like we over-provisioned you by two to three x what you expected. You'd be fired. So it was like in Wall Street. Treats Amazon a little bit differently than they do everybody else. So on the one hand, we're making progress. There's lots of software companies like yourself. There's lots of companies helping people to optimize their cost on there. But still, this seems like there's a long way to go to get multi-cloud and the cost of what's going on there under control. Remember the early days? They said cloud was supposed to be simple and cheap and turned out to be neither of those. So Ben, I want to give you the opportunity. What do you see both as an industry and for Turbonomic, what's the next kinda six to 12 months bring? >> Good, can I hit your cloud point first? It's just when you think of Amazon, just to see how the changes. If I go and provision a workload in Amazon EC2 alone, there's 1.7 million different combinations from which I can choose across all the availability zones, all the regions, and all the services. There's 17 families who compute service alone as just one example. So what Amazon looks at Turbonomic and says, you're almost a customer control plane for us. You're gonna understand the demand on the workload, and then you can help the customer, advise the customer which service, which instance types, all the way down through not just compute and memory, but down into network and storage are the ones that we should do. And the reason we can do this so cost effectively is we're doing it on a basis of a consumption plan, not an allocation plan. And Amazon as a retailer in their origin, has cut prices 62 times, so they're very interested in using us as a means of making their customers more cost effective so that they're indeed paying for what they use, but not paying for what they don't use. They've recognized us as giving us the migration tools competency, as well as the third party cloud management competencies that frankly are very rare in the marketplace. And recognize that those are because production apps are now running at Amazon like never before. Ajur, Microsoft Ajur is not to be missed on this one, right? So they've said we too wanna make sure that we have cost effective operations. And what they've described is when a customer moves to Ajur, that's a Ajur customer at ACA. But then they need to make sure that they're growing inside of Ajur and there's a magic number of 5,000 dollars a month. If they exceed that, then they're Ajur for life, okay? The problem becomes if they pause and they say, wow this is expensive or this isn't quite right. Now they just lost a year of growth. And so the whole opportunity with Ajur and they actually resell our assessment products for migration planning as well as the optimization thereafter. And the whole idea is to make sure again customers are only paying for what they use. So both of these platforms in the cloud are super aggressive with one another, but also relative to the un-prim legacy environments to make sure that the workloads are coming into their arena. And if you look at the value of that, they round numbers about three to 6,000 dollars a year per workload. We have three million smart workloads that we manage today at Turbonomic. Think what that's worth in the realm of the prize at the public cloud vendors and it's a really interesting thing. And we'll help the customers get there most cost effectively as they can. >> Alright, so back to looking forward. Would love to hear your thoughts on just what customers need broadly and then some of the areas that we should look for Turbonomic in the future. >> Okay, so I think you're gonna continue to see customers look for outlets for this decomposed application as we've described it. So microservices, containers, and VMs running in multiple different environments. We believe that the next one, so today in market we have STDC, the software defined data center and virtualization. We have IAS and PASS in the public and hybrid cloud worlds. The next one we believe will be as applications at the edge become less pedestrian, more strategic and more operationally intensive, then you're talking about Amazon Prime delivery or your driverless cars or things along those lines. You're going to see that the edge really is gonna require the cell tower to become the next generation data center. You're gonna see compute memory and storage and networking on the cell tower because I need to process and I can't take the latency of going back to the core, be it cloud core or on premise core. And so you'll do both, but you'll need that edge processing. Okay, what we look at is if that's the modern data center, and you have processing needs there that are critical for those applications that are yet to be born, then our belief is you're gonna need workload automation software because you can't put people on every single cell tower in America or the rest of the world. So, this is sort of a confirming trend to us that we know we're in the right direction. Always focus on the workloads, not the infrastructure. If you make the application workloads perform, then the business will run well regardless of where they perform. And in some environments like a modern day cell tower, they're just not gonna be the opportunity to put people in manual response to a break fix problem set at the edge. So that's kinda where we see these things headed. >> Alright, well Ben Nye, pleasure to catch up with you. Thanks so much for giving us the update on where the industry is and Turbonomic specifically. And thank you so much for watching. Be sure to check out theCube.net for all of our coverage. Of course we're at all the big cloud shows including AWS Reinvent and CubeCon in Seattle later this year. So thank you so much for watching the Cube. (gentle music)

>> Announcer: From the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the theCUBE. Now here's your host Stu Miniman. >> Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and welcome to a special theCUBE conversation here in our Boston area studio. Happy to welcome back to the program, Danny Cobb, who's with Dell EMC in the CTO office. >> Thanks Stu, great to see you here today. >> Great to see you too. So Danny, we're going to talk about a topic that like many things in the industry. It seems like it's something that happen overnight, but there's been a lot of hard work going on for quite a lot of years, even going back to heck when you and I worked together. >> Danny: That's right. >> A company use to be called EMC. NVMe, so first of all just bring everybody up to speed as to what you work on inside the Dell family. >> Danny: Sure, so my responsibility at now Dell EMC has been this whole notion of emergence systems. New technologies, new capabilities that are just coming into broad market adoption, broad readiness, technological feasibility, and those kinds of things. And then making sure that as a company we're prepared for their adoption and inclusion in our product portfolio. So it's a great set of capabilities a great set of work to be doing especially if you have a short attention span like I do. >> Danny, I spend a lot of time these days in the open source world. You talk about people are moving faster, people are trying lots of technologies. You've been doing some really hard work. The company and the industry in the standards world. What's the importance of standards these days, and bring us back to how this NVMe stuff started. >> So a great way to get everybody up to speed as you mentioned when you kicked off. NVMe, an overnight success, almost 11 years in the making now. The very first NVMe standard was about 2007. EMC joined the NVMe consortium in 2008 along with an Austin, Texas computer company called Dell. So Dell and EMC were both in the front row of defining the NVMe standard, and essentially putting in place a set of standards, a set of architectures, a set of protocols, product adoption capabilities, compatibility capabilities for the entire industry to follow, starting in 2008. Now you know from our work together that the storage industry likes to make sure that everything's mature, everything works reliably. Everything has broad interoperability standards and things like that. So since 2008, we've largely been about how do we continue to build momentum and generate support for a new storage technology that's based on broadly accepted industry standards, in order to allow the entire industry to move forward. Not just to achieve the most out of the flash revolution, but prepare the industry for coming enhancements to storage class memory. >> Yeah, so storage class memory you mentioned things like flash. One thing we've looked at for a long time is when flash rolled out. There's a lot of adoption on the consumer side first, and then that drove the enterprise piece, but flash today is still done through Ikusi interface with SaaS or Sata. And believe we're finally getting rid of when we go to NVMe. What some in the industry have called the horrible Ikusi stack. >> Danny: That's right. >> So explain to us a little bit about first, the consumer piece of where this fits first, and how it gets the enterprise. Where are we in the industry today with that? >> Yeah so as you pointed out a number of the new media technologies have actually gained a broad acceptance and a grounds full of support starting in the consumer space. The rapid adoption of mobile devices whether initially iPods and iPhones and things like that. Tablets where the more memory you have the more songs you carry, the more pictures you can take. A lot of very virtuous cycle type things occurred in the consumer space to allow flash to go from a fairly expensive perhaps niche technology to broad high volume manufacturing. And with high volume manufacturing comes much lower costs and so we always knew that flash was fast when we first started working on it at EMC in 2005. It became fast and robust when we shipped in 2008. It went from flash to robust to affordable with technologies like the move from SLC to MLC, and now TLC flash and the continuing advances of Moore's law. And so flash has been the beneficiary of high volume consumer economics along with our friend Moore's law over a number of years. >> Okay, so on the NVMe piece, your friends down in Round Rock in Dell. They've got not only the storage portfolio, but on the consumer side. There's pieces like my understanding NVMe already in the market for some part of this today, correct. >> That's right, I think one of the very first adoption scenarios for NVMe was in Lightweight laptop device. The storage deck could be more efficient. The fundamental number of gates in Silicon required to implement the stack was more efficient. Power was more efficient, so a whole bunch of things that were beneficial to a mobile high volume client device like an ultra light, ultra portable laptop made it a great place to launch the technology. >> Okay, and so bring us to what does that mean then for storage? Is that available in the enterprise storage today? >> Danny: Yeah. >> And where is that today and where is that today, and where are we going to see in the next years though? >> So here's the progression that the industry has more or less followed. If we went from that high volume, ultra light laptop device to very inexpensive M.2 devices that could be used in laptops and desktops more broadly, also gained a fair amount of traction with certain used cases and hyperscalers. And then as the spec matured and as the enterprise ecosystem around it, broader data integrity type solutions in the sili-case itself. A number of other things that are bread and butter for enterprise class devices. As those began to emerge, we've now seen NVMe move forward from laptop and client devices to high volume M.2 devices to full function, full capability dual ported enterprise NVMe devices really crossing over this year. >> Okay, so that means we're going to see not only in the customer pieces but should be seeing really enterprise roll out in I'm assuming things like storage arrays, maybe hyper converged. All the different flavors in the not too distant future. >> Absolutely right, the people who get paid to forecast these things when they look into their crystal balls. They've talked about when does NVMe get close enough to its predecessor SaaS to make the switch over be a no brainer. And often times, you get a performance factor where there's more value or you get a cost factor where suddenly that becomes the way the game is won. In the case of NVMe versus SaaS, both of those situations value and cost are more or less a wash right now across the industry. And so there are very few impediments to adoption. Much like a few years ago, there were very few impediment to adoption of enterprise SSDs versus high performance HDDs. The 15Ks and the 10K HDDs. Once we got to close enough in terms of cost parity. The entire industry went all flash over night. >> Yeah, it's a little bit different than say the original adoption of flash versus HDD. >> Danny: That's right. >> HDD versus SSD. Remember back, you had to have the algebra sheet. And you said okay, how many devices did I have.? What's the power savings that I could get out of that? Plus the performance that I had and then does this makes sense. It seems like this is a much more broadly applicable type of solution that we'll see. >> Danny: Right. >> For much faster adoption. >> Do you remember those days of a little goes a long way? >> Stu: Yeah. >> And then more is better? And then almost be really good, and so that's where we've come over what seems like a very few years. >> Okay, so we've only been talking about NVMe, the thing I know David Foyer's been look a lot from an architectural standpoint. Where we see benefit obviously from NVMe but NVMe over Fabrics is the thing that has him really excited if you talk about the architectures, maybe just explain a little bit about what I get with NVMe and what I'll get added on top with the over fabric piece of that. >> Danny: Sure. >> And what's that roll out look like? >> Can I tell you a little story about what I think of as the birth of NVMe over Fabrics? >> Stu: Please. >> Some of your viewers might remember a project at EMC called Thunder. And Thunder was PCI flash with an RDMA over ethernet front end on it. We took that system to Intel developers forum as a proof of concept. Around the corner from me was an engineer named Dave Min-turn, who's an Intel engineer. Who had almost exactly the same software stack up and running except it was an Intel RDMA capability nick and an Intel flash drive, and of course some changes to the Intel processor stack to support the used case that he had in mind. And we started talking and we realized that we were both counting the number of instructions from packet arriving across the network to bytes being read or written on the vis-tory fast PCI E device. And we realized that there has to be a better way, and so from that day, I think it was September 2013, maybe it was August. We actually started working together on how can we take the benefits of the NVMe standard that exists mapped onto PCI E. And then map those same parameters as cleanly as we possibly can onto, at that time ethernet but also InfiniBand, Fiber channel, and perhaps some other transports as a way to get the benefits of the NVMe software stack, and build on top of the new high performance capabilities of these RDMA capable interconnects. So it goes way back to 2013, we moved it into the NVMe standard as a proposal in 2014. And again three, four years later now, we're starting to see solutions roll out that begin to show the promise that we saw way back then. >> Yeah and the challenge with networking obviously is sounds like you've got a few different transport layers that I can use there. Probably a number of different providers. How baked is the standard? Where do things like hits the interoperability fit into the mix? When do customers get their hands on it, and what can they expect the roll out to be? >> We're clearly at the beginning of what's about to be a very, I think long and healthy future for NVMe over Fabrics. I don't know about you. I was at Flash Memory Summit back in August in Santa Clara and there were a number of vendors there starting to talk about NVMe over Fabrics basics. FPGA implementation, system on chip implementations, software implementations across a variety of stacks. The great thing was NVMe over Fabrics was a phrase of the entire show. The challenging thing was probably no two of those solutions interoperated with each other yet. We were still at the running water through the pipes phase, not really checking for leaks and getting to broad adoption. Broad adoption I think comes when we've got a number of vendors broad interoperability, multi-supplier, component availability and those things, that let a number of implementations exists and interoperate because our customers live in a diverse multi-vendor environment. So that's what it will take to go from interesting proof of concept technology which I think is what we're seeing in terms of early customers engagement today to broad base deployment in both existing fiber channel implementations, and also in some next generation data center implementations, probably beginning next year. >> Okay, so Danny, I talked to a lot of companies out there. Everyone that's involved in this (mumbles) has been talking about NVMe over Fabric for a couple of years now. From a user standpoint, how are they going to help sort this out? What will differentiate the check box. Yes, I have something that follows this to, oh wait this will actually help performance so much better. What works with my environment? Where are the pitfalls and where are the things that are going to help companies? What's going to differentiate the marketplace? >> As an engineer, we always get into the speeds and the feeds and the weeds on performance and things like that, and while those are all true. We can talk about fewer and fewer instructions in the networks stack. Fewer and fewer instructions in the storage stack. We can talk about more efficient Silicon implementations. More affinity for multi-processor, multi-core processing environments, more efficient operating system implementations and things like that. But that's just the performance side. The broader benefits come to beginning to move to more cost effective data center fabric implementation. Where I'm not managing an orange wire and a blue wire unless that's really what I want. There's still a number of people who want to manage their fiber channel and will run NVMe over that. They get the compatibility that they want. They get the policies that they want and the switch behavior that they want, and the provisioning model that they want and all of those things. They'll get that in an NVMe over Fabrics implementation. A new data center however will be able to go, you know what, I'm all in day one on 25, 5000 bit gigabit ethernet as my fundamental connection of choice. I'm going 400 gigabit ethernet ports as soon as Andy Beck-tels shine or somebody gives them to me and things like that. And so if that's the data center architecture model that I'm in, that's a fundamental implementation decision that I get to make knowing that I can run an enterprise grade, storage protocol over the top of that, and the industry is ready. My external storage is ready, my servers are ready and my workloads can get the benefit of that. >> Okay, so if I just step back for a second, NVMe sounds like a lot of it is what we would consider the backend in proving that NVMe over Fabrics helps with some of the front end. From a customer stand point, what about their application standpoint? Can they work with everything that they have today? Are there things that they're going to want to do to optimize for that? So the storage industry just take care of it for them. What do they think about today and future planning from an application standpoint? >> I think it's a matter of that readiness and what is it going to take. The good news and this has analogs to the industry change from HDD to SSDs in the first place. The good new is you can make that switch over today and your data management application, your database application, your warehouse, you're analytics or whatever. Not one line of software changes. NVMe device shows up in the block stack of your favorite operating system, and you get lower latency, more IOs in parallel. More CPU back for your application to run because you don't need it in the storage stack anymore. So you get the benefits of that just by changing over to this new protocol. For applications who then want to optimize for this new environment, you can start thinking about having more IOs in flight in parallel. You could start thinking about what happens when those IOs are satisfied more rapidly without as much overhead in and interrupt processing and a number of things like that. You could start thinking about what happens when your application goes from hundred micro-second latencies and IOs like the flash devices to 10 microsecond or one microsecond IOs. Would perhaps with some of these new storage class memory devices that are out there. Those are the benefits that people are going to see when they start thinking about an all NVMe stack. Not just being beneficial for existing flash implementations but being fundamentally required and mandatory to get the benefits of storage class memory implementations. So this whole notion of future ready was one of the things that was fundamental in how NVMe was initially designed over 10 years ago. And we're starting to see that long term view pay benefits in the marketplace. >> Any insight from the customer standpoint? Is it certain applications or verticals where this is really going to help? I think back to the move to SSDs. It was David Foyer who just wet around the entire news feed. He was like, database, database, database is where we can have the biggest impact. What's NVMe going to impact? >> I think what we always see with these things. First of all, NVMe is probably going to have a very rapid advancement and impact across the industry much more quickly than the transition from HDD to SSD, so we don't have to go through that phase of a little goes a long way. You can largely make the switch and as your ecosystem supports it as your vendor of choice supports it. You can make that switch and to a large extent have the application be agnostic from that. So that's a really good way to start. The other place is you and I have had this conversation before. If you take out a cocktail napkin and you draw an equation that says time equals money. That's an obvious place where NVMe and NVMe over Fabrics benefit someone initially. High speed analytics, real time, high frequency trading, a number of things where more efficiency. My ability to do more work per unit time than yours gives me a competitive advantage. Makes my algorithms better, exposes my IP in a more advantageous way. Those are wonderful places for these types of emerging technologies to get adopted because the value proposition is just slam dunk simple. >> Yeah, so running through my head are all the latest buzz words. Is everything at Wikibon when we did our predictions for this year, data is at the center of all of it. But machine learning, AI, heck blockchain, Edge computing all of these things can definitely be affected by that. Is NVMe going to help all of them? >> Oh machine learning. Incredible high bandwidth application. Wonderful thing stream data in, compute on it, get your answers and things like that. Wonderful benefits for a new squeaky clean storage stack to run into. Edge where often times, real time is required. The ability to react to a stimulus and provide a response because of human safety issue or a risk management issue or what have you. Any place that performance let's you get close, get you outer close to real time is a win. And the efficiency of NVMe has a significant advantage in those environments. So NVMe is largely able to help the industry be ready just at the time that new processing models are coming in such as machine learning, artificial intelligence. New data center deployment architectures like the Edge come in and the new types of telemetry and algorithms that they maybe running there. It's really a technology that's arriving just at the time that the industry needs it. >> Yeah, was reading up on some of the blogs on the Dell sites. Jeff Brew-dough said, "We should expect "to see things from 2018." Not expecting you to pre-announce anything but what should we be looking for from Dell and the Dell family in 2018 when it comes to this space? >> We're very bullish on NVMe. We've been pushing very, very hard in the standards community. Obviously, we have already shipped NVMe for a series of internal use cases in our storage platforms. So we have confidence in the technology, its readiness, the ability of our software stacks to do what they need to do. We have a robust, multi-supplier supply chain ready to go so that we can service our customers, and provide them the choice in capacities and capabilities and things like that that are required to bet your business, and long term supply assurance for and things like that. So we're seeing the next year or so be the full transition to NVMe and we're ready for it. We've been getting ready for a long time. Now, the ecosystem is there and we're predicting very big things in the future. >> Okay, so Danny, you've been working on this for 11 years. Give us just a little bit of insight. What you learned, what this group has learned from previous transitions? What's excited you the most? Give us a little bit of sausage making? >> What's been funny about this is we talk about the initial transition to flash, and just getting to the point where a little goes a long way. That was a three year journey. We started in 2005, we shipped in 2008. We moved from there. We flash in a raise as a tier, as a cache, as the places where a little latency, high performance media adds value and those things. Then we saw the industry begin to develop into some server centric storage solutions. You guys have been at the front of forecasting what that market looks like with software defined storage. We see that in technologies like ScaleIO and VSAN where their abilities to start using the media when it's resident in a server became important. And suddenly that began to grow as a peer to the external storage market. Another market San alternative came along with them. Now we're moving even further out where it seems like we use to ask why flash? And it will get asked that. Now it's why not flash? Why don't we move there? So what we've seen is a combination of things. As we get more and more efficient low latency storage protocols. The bottle neck stops being about the network and start being about something else. As we get more multi-core compute capabilities and Moore's law continues to tickle along. We suddenly have enough compute and enough bandwidth and the next thing to target is the media. As we get faster and faster more capable media such as the move to flash and now the move to storage class memory. Again the bottle neck moves away from the media, maybe back to something else in the stack. As I advance compute in media and interconnect, suddenly it becomes beneficial for me to rewrite my application or re-platform it, and create an entire new set of applications that exploit the current capabilities or the technologies. And so we are in that rinse, lather repeat cycle right now in the technology. And for guys like you and me who've been doing this for awhile, we've seen this movie before. We know how it hands. It actually doesn't end. There are just new technologies and new bottlenecks and new manifestations of Moore's law and Holmes law and Metcalfe's law that come into play here. >> Alright so Danny, any final predictions from you on what we should be seeing? What's the next thing you work on that you call victory soon right? >> Yes, so I'm starting to lift my eyes a little bit and we think we see some really good capabilities coming at us from the device physicists in the white coats with the pocket protectors back in the fabs. We're seeing a couple of storage class memories begin to come to market now. You're led by Intel and microns, 3D XPoint but a number of other candidates on the horizon that will take us from this 100 microsecond world to a 10 microsecond world maybe to a 100 nanosecond world. And you and I we back here talking about that fairly soon I predict. >> Excellent, well Danny Cobb always a pleasure to catch up with you. Thanks so much for walking us through all of the pieces. 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