>>welcome to the session. Long live swarm with containers and kubernetes everywhere we have this increasing cloud complexity at the same time that we're facing economic uncertainty and, of course, to navigate this. For most companies, it's a matter of focusing on speed and on shipping and iterating their code faster. Now. For many, Marantz is customers. That means using docker swarm rather than kubernetes to handle container orchestration. We really believe that the best way to increase your speed to production is choice, simplicity and security. So we wanted to bring you a couple of experts to talk about the state of swarm and Docker enterprise and how you can make best use of both of you. So let's get to it. Well, good afternoon or good morning, depending on where you are on and welcome to today's session. Long live swarm. I am Nick Chase. I'm head of content here at Mantis and I would like to introduce you to our two Panelists today eight of Manzini. Why don't you introduce yourself? >>I am a van CNI. I'm a solutions architect here at Moran Tous on work primarily with Docker Enterprise System. I have a long history of working with support team. Um, at what used to be Ah Docker Enterprise, part of Docker Inc. >>Yeah, Okay. Great. And Don Power. >>I, um Yeah, I'm Don Power on the docker. Captain Docker, community leader. Right now I run our Dev Ops team for Citizens Bank out of Nashville, Tennessee, and happy to be here. >>All right, Excellent. So All right, so thank you both for coming. Now, before we say anything else, I want to go ahead and kind of name the elephant in the room. There's been a lot of talk about the >>future. Yeah, that's right. Um, swarm as it stands right now, um, we have, ah, very vested interest in keeping our customers on who want to continue using swarm, functional and keeping swarm a viable alternative or complement to kubernetes. However you see the orchestration war playing out as it were. >>Okay? It's hardly a war at this point, but they do work together, and so that's >>absolutely Yeah, I I definitely consider them more of like, complimentary services, um, using the right tool for the job. Sort of sense. They both have different design goals when they were originally created and set out so I definitely don't see it as a completely one or the other kind of decision and that they could both be used in the same environment and similar clusters to run whatever workload that you have. >>Excellent. And we'll get into the details of all that as we go along. So that's terrific. So I have not really been involved in in the sort of swarm area. So set the stage for us where we kind of start out with all of this. Don I know that you were involved and so guys said, set the stage for us. >>Sure, Um I mean so I've been a heavy user of swarm in my past few roles. Professionally, we've been running containers in production with Swarm for coming up on about four years. Now, Um, in our case, we you know, we looked at what was available at the time, and of course you had. Kubernetes is your biggest contender out there, but like I just mentioned, the one of the things that really led us to swarm is it's design goals were very different than kubernetes. So Kubernetes tries to have an answer for absolutely every scenario where swarm tries to have an answer for, like, the 80% of problems or challenges will say that you might come across 80% of the workloads. Um, I had a better way of saying that, but I think I got my point across >>E Yeah, I think I think you hit the nail on the head. Um, Kubernetes in particular with the way that kubernetes itself is an a P I I believe that kubernetes was, um, you know, written as a toolkit. It wasn't really intended to be used by end users directly. It was really a way to build platforms that run containers. And because it's this really, really extensible ap I you can extend it to manage all sorts of resource is swarm doesn't have that X sensibility aspect, but what it was designed to do, it does very, very well and very easily in a very, very simple sort of way. Um, it's highly opinionated about the way that you should use the product, but it works very effectively. It's very easy to use. It's very low. Um, not low effort, but low. Ah, low barrier to entry. >>Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I was gonna touch on the same thing. It's very easy for someone to come in. Pick up swarm. You know they don't They don't have to know anything about the orchestrator on day one. Most people that are getting into this space are very familiar with Docker. Compose um, and entering from Docker compose into swarm is changing one command that you would run on the command line. >>Yeah, very, very trivial to if you are already used to building docker files using composed, organize your deployment into stacks of related components. It's trivial to turn on swarm mode and then deploy your container set to a cluster. >>Well, excellent. So answer this question for me. Is the swarm of today the same as the swarm of, you know, the original swarm. So, like when swim first started is that the same is what we have now >>it's kind of ah, complicated story with the storm project because it's changed names and forms a few times. Originally in is really somewhere around 2014 in the first version, and it was a component that you really had to configure and set up separately from Docker Ah, the way that it was structured. Ah, you would just have docker installed on a number of servers are machines in your cluster. And then you would organize them into a swarm by bringing your own database and some of the tooling to get those nodes talking to each other and to organize your containers across all of your docker engines. Ah, few years later, the swarm project was retooled and baked into the docker engine. And, um, this is where we sort of get the name change from. So originally it was a feature that we called swarm. Ah. Then the Swarm Kit project was released on Get Hub and baked directly into the engine, where they renamed it as swarm mode. Because now it is a motile option that you just turn on as a button in the docker engine and because it's already there the, um, the tuning knobs that you haven't swarm kit with regard to how what my time outs are and some of these other sort of performance settings there locked there, they're there. It's part of the opinionated set of components that builds up the docker engine is that we bring in the Swarm Kit project with a certain set of defaults and settings. And that is how it operates in today's version of Docker engine. >>Uh, okay for that, that makes sense. That makes sense. So ah, so don, I know you have pretty strong feelings about this topic, but it is swarm still viable in a world that's sort of increasingly dominated by Kubernetes. >>Absolutely. And you were right. I'm very passionate about this topic where I work. We're we're doing almost all of our production work lives on swarm we only have out of Ah, we've got something like 600 different services between three and 4000 containers. At any given point in time. Out of all of those projects, all of those services we've only run into two or three that don't kind of fit into the opinionated model of swarm. So we are running those on KUBERNETES in the same cluster using Moranis is Docker enterprise offering. But, um, no, that's a very, very small percentage of services that we didn't have an answer for in swarm with one. The one case that really gets us just about every time is scaling state full services. But you're gonna have very few staple services in most environments for things like micro service architecture, which is predominantly what we build out. Swarm is perfect. It's simple. It's easy to use you, don't you? Don't end up going for miles of yamma files trying to figure out the one setting that you didn't get exactly right? Um yeah, the other Thea the other big piece of it that way really led us to adopting it so heavily in the beginning is, you know, the overlay network. So your networks don't have to span the whole cluster like they do with kubernetes. So we could we could set up a network isolation between service A and service B, just by use using the built in overlay networks. That was a huge component that, like I said, let us Teoh adopting it so heavily when we first got started. >>Excellent. You look like you're about to say something in a >>Yeah, I think that speaks to the design goals for each piece of software. On the way that I've heard this described before is with regard to the networking piece the ah, the docker networking under the hood, um, feels like it was written by a network engineer. The way that the docker engine overlay networks communicate uses ah, VX lan under the hood, which creates pseudo V lands for your containers. And if two containers aren't on the same Dylan, there's no way they can communicate with each other as opposed to the design of kubernetes networking, which is really left to the C and I implementation but still has the design philosophy of one big, flat sub net where every I p could reach every other i p and you control what is allowed to access, what by policy. So it's more of an application focused Ah design. Whereas in Docker swarm on the overlay networking side, it's really of a network engineering sort of focus. Right? >>Okay, got it. Well, so now how does all this fit in with Docker enterprise now? So I understand there's been some changes on how swarm is handled within Docker Enterprise. Coming with this new release, >>Docker s O swarm Inside Docker Enterprise is represented as both the swarm classic legacy system that we shift way back in 2014 on and then also the swarm mode that is curly used in the docker engine. Um, the Swarm Classic back end gives us legacy support for being able to run unmanaged plane containers onto a cluster. If you were to take Docker ce right now, you would find that you wouldn't be able to just do a very basic docker run against a whole cluster of machines. You can create services using the swarms services, a p I but, um, that that legacy plane container support is something that you have to set up external swarm in order to provide. So right now, the architecture of Docker Enterprise UCP is based on some of that legacy code from about five or six years ago. Okay. Ah, that gives us ability to deploy plane containers for use cases that require it as well as swarm services for those kinds of workloads that might be better served by the built in load balancing and h A and scaling features that swarm provides. >>Okay, so now I know that at one point kubernetes was deployed within Docker Enterprise as you create a swarm cluster and then deploy kubernetes on top of swarm. >>Correct? That is how the current architecture works. >>Okay. All right. And then, um what is what is where we're going with this like, Are we supposed to? Are we going to running Swarm on top of kubernetes? What's >>the the design goals for the future of swarm within branches? Stocker Enterprise are that we will start the employing Ah, like kubernetes cluster features as the base and a swarm kit on top of kubernetes. So it is like you mentioned just a reversal of the roles. I think we're finding that, um, the ability to extend kubernetes a p I to manage resource is is valuable at an infrastructure and platform level in a way that we can't do with swarm. We still want to be able to run swarm workloads. So we're going to keep the swarm kit code the swarm kit orchestration features to run swarm services as a part of the platform to keep the >>got it. Okay, so, uh, if I'm a developer and I want to run swarm, but my company's running kubernetes what? What are my one of my options there? Well, I think >>eight touched on it pretty well already where you know, it depends on your design goals, and you know, one of the other things that's come up a few times is Thea. The level of entry for for swarm is much, much simpler than kubernetes. So I mean, it's it's kind of hard to introduce anything new. So I mean, a company, a company that's got most of their stuff in kubernetes and production is gonna have a hard time maybe looking at a swarm. I mean, this is gonna be, you know, higher, higher up, not the boots on the ground. But, um, you know, the the upper management, that's at some point, you have to pay for all their support, all of it. What we did in our approach. Because there was one team already using kubernetes. We went ahead and stood up a small cluster ah, small swarm cluster and taught the developers how to use it and how to deploy code to it. And they loved it. They thought it was super simple. A time went on, the other teams took notice and saw how fast these guys were getting getting code deployed, getting services up, getting things usable, and they would look over at what the innovation team was doing and say, Hey, I I want to do that to, uh, you know, so there's there's a bunch of different approaches. That's the approach we took and it worked out very well. It looks like you wanted to say something too. >>Yeah, I think that if you if you're if you're having to make this kind of decision, there isn't There isn't a wrong choice. Ah, it's never a swarm of its role and your organization, right? Right. If you're if you're an individual and you're using docker on your workstation on your laptop but your organization wants to standardize on kubernetes there, there are still some two rules that Mike over Ah, pose. And he's manifest if you need to deploy. Coop resource is, um if you are running Docker Enterprise Swarm kit code will still be there. And you can run swarm services as regular swarm workloads on that component. So I I don't want to I don't want people to think that they're going to be like, locked into one or the other orchestration system. Ah, there the way we want to enable developer choice so that however the developer wants to do their work, they can get it done. Um Docker desktop. Ah, ships with that kubernetes distribution bundled in it. So if you're using a Mac or Windows and that's your development, uh, system, you can run docker debt, turn on your mode and run the kubernetes bits. So you have the choices. You have the tools to deploy to either system. >>And that's one of the things that we were super excited about when they introduced Q. Burnett ease into the Docker Enterprise offering. So we were able to run both, so we didn't have to have that. I don't want to call it a battle or argument, but we didn't have to make anybody choose one or the other. We, you know, we gave them both options just by having Docker enterprise so >>excellent. So speaking of having both options, let's just say for developers who need to make a decision while should I go swarm, or should I go kubernetes when it sort of some of the things that they should think about? >>So I think that certain certain elements of, um, certain elements of containers are going to be agnostic right now. So the the the designing a docker file and building a container image, you're going to need to know that skill for either system that you choose to operate on. Ah, the swarm value. Some of the storm advantage comes in that you don't have to know anything beyond that. So you don't have to learn a whole new A p I a whole new domain specific language using Gamel to define your deployment. Um, chances are that if you've been using docker for any length of time, you probably have a whole stack of composed files that are related to things that you've worked on. And, um, again, the barrier to entry to getting those running on swarm is very low. You just turn it on docker stack, deploy, and you're good to go. So I think that if you're trying to make that choice, if you I have a use case that doesn't require you to manage new resource is if you don't need the Extensible researchers part, Ah, swarm is a great great, great viable option. >>Absolutely. Yeah, the the recommendation I've always made to people that are just getting started is start with swarm and then move into kubernetes and going through the the two of them, you're gonna figure out what fits your design principles. What fits your goals. Which one? You know which ones gonna work best for you. And there's no harm in choosing one or the other using both each one of you know, very tailor fit for very various types of use cases. And like I said, kubernetes is great at some things, but for a lot of other stuff, I still want to use swarm and vice versa. So >>on my home lab, for all my personal like services that I run in my, uh, my home network, I used storm, um, for things that I might deploy onto, you know, a bit this environment, a lot of the ones that I'm using right now are mainly tailored for kubernetes eso. I think especially some of the tools that are out there in the open source community as well as in docker Enterprise helped to bridge that gap like there's a translator that can take your compose file, turn it into kubernetes. Yeah, Mel's, um, if if you're trying to decide, like on the business side, should we standardize on former kubernetes? I think like your what? What functionality are you looking at? Out of getting out of your system? If you need things like tight integration into a ah infrastructure vendor such as AWS Azure or VM ware that might have, like plug ins for kubernetes. You're now you're getting into that area where you're managing Resource is of the infrastructure with your orchestration. AP I with kube so things like persistent volumes can talk to your storage device and carve off chunks of storage and assign those two pods if you don't have that need or that use case. Um, you know, KUBERNETES is bringing in a lot of these features that you maybe you're just not taking advantage of. Um, similarly, if you want to take advantage of things like auto scaling to scale horizontally, let's say you have a message queue system and then a number of workers, and you want to start scaling up on your workers. When your CPU hits a certain a metric. That is something that Kubernetes has built right into it. And so, if you want that, I would probably suggest that you look at kubernetes if you don't need that, or if you want to write some of that tooling yourself. Swarm doesn't have an object built into it that will do automatic horizontal scaling based on some kind of metric. So I always consider this decision as a what features are the most I available to you and your business that you need to Yep. >>All right. Excellent. Well, and, ah, fortunately, of course, they're both available on Docker Enterprise. So aren't we lucky? All right, so I am going to wrap this up. I want to thank Don Bauer Docker captain, for coming here and spending some time with us and eight of Manzini. I would like to thank you. I know that the the, uh, circumstances are less than ideal here for your recording today, but we appreciate you joining us. Um and ah, both of you. Thank you very much. And I want to invite all of you. First of all, thank you for joining us. We know your time is valuable and I want to invite you all Teoh to take a look at Docker Enterprise. Ah, follow the link that's on your screen and we'll see you in the next session. Thank you all so much. Thank you. >>Thank you, Nick.

>> In this session, we will be reviewing the power and benefits of implementing a secure software supply chain and how we can gain a cloud like experience with the flexibility, speed and security of modern software delivering. Hi, I'm Matt Bentley and I run our technical pre-sales team here at Mirantis. I spent the last six years working with customers on their containerization journey. One thing almost every one of my customers has focused on is how they can leverage the speed and agility benefits of containerizing their applications while continuing to apply the same security controls. One of the most important things to remember is that we are all doing this for one reason and that is for our applications. So now let's take a look at how we can provide flexibility to all layers of the stack from the infrastructure on up to the application layer. When building a secure supply chain for container focused platforms, I generally see two different mindsets in terms of where their responsibilities lie between the developers of the applications and the operations teams who run the middleware platforms. Most organizations are looking to build a secure, yet robust service that fits their organization's goals around how modern applications are built and delivered. First, let's take a look at the developer or application team approach. This approach falls more of the DevOps philosophy, where a developer and application teams are the owners of their applications from the development through their life cycle, all the way to production. I would refer to this more of a self service model of application delivery and promotion when deployed to a container platform. This is fairly common, organizations where full stack responsibilities have been delegated to the application teams. Even in organizations where full stack ownership doesn't exist, I see the self service application deployment model work very well in lab development or non production environments. This allows teams to experiment with newer technologies, which is one of the most effective benefits of utilizing containers. In other organizations, there is a strong separation between responsibilities for developers and IT operations. This is often due to the complex nature of controlled processes related to the compliance and regulatory needs. Developers are responsible for their application development. This can either include dock at the development layer or be more traditional, throw it over the wall approach to application development. There's also quite a common experience around building a center of excellence with this approach where we can take container platforms and be delivered as a service to other consumers inside of the IT organization. This is fairly prescriptive in the manner of which application teams would consume it. Yeah when examining the two approaches, there are pros and cons to each. Process, controls and compliance are often seen as inhibitors to speed. Self-service creation, starting with the infrastructure layer, leads to inconsistency, security and control concerns, which leads to compliance issues. While self-service is great, without visibility into the utilization and optimization of those environments, it continues the cycles of inefficient resource utilization. And a true infrastructure as a code experience, requires DevOps, related coding skills that teams often have in pockets, but maybe aren't ingrained in the company culture. Luckily for us, there is a middle ground for all of this. Docker Enterprise Container Cloud provide the foundation for the cloud like experience on any infrastructure without all of the out of the box security and controls that our professional services team and your operations teams spend their time designing and implementing. This removes much of the additional work and worry around ensuring that your clusters and experiences are consistent, while maintaining the ideal self service model. No matter if it is a full stack ownership or easing the needs of IT operations. We're also bringing the most natural Kubernetes experience today with Lens to allow for multi-cluster visibility that is both developer and operator friendly. Lens provide immediate feedback for the health of your applications, observability for your clusters, fast context switching between environments and allowing you to choose the best in tool for the task at hand, whether it is the graphic user interface or command line interface driven. Combining the cloud like experience with the efficiencies of a secure supply chain that meet your needs brings you the best of both worlds. You get DevOps speed with all the security and controls to meet the regulations your business lives by. We're talking about more frequent deployments, faster time to recover from application issues and better code quality. As you can see from our clusters we have worked with, we're able to tie these processes back to real cost savings, real efficiency and faster adoption. This all adds up to delivering business value to end users in the overall perceived value. Now let's look and see how we're able to actually build a secure supply chain to help deliver these sorts of initiatives. In our example secure supply chain, where utilizing Docker desktop to help with consistency of developer experience, GitHub for our source control, Jenkins for our CACD tooling, the Docker trusted registry for our secure container registry and the Universal Control Plane to provide us with our secure container runtime with Kubernetes and Swarm, providing a consistent experience, no matter where our clusters are deployed. You work with our teams of developers and operators to design a system that provides a fast, consistent and secure experience. For my developers, that works for any application, Brownfield or Greenfield, Monolith or Microservice. Onboarding teams can be simplified with integrations into enterprise authentication services, calls to GitHub repositories, Jenkins access and jobs, Universal Control Plan and Docker trusted registry teams and organizations, Kubernetes namespace with access control, creating Docker trusted registry namespaces with access control, image scanning and promotion policies. So, now let's take a look and see what it looks like from the CICD process, including Jenkins. So let's start with Docker desktop. From the Docker desktop standpoint, we'll actually be utilizing visual studio code and Docker desktop to provide a consistent developer experience. So no matter if we have one developer or a hundred, we're going to be able to walk through a consistent process through Docker container utilization at the development layer. Once we've made our changes to our code, we'll be able to check those into our source code repository. In this case, we'll be using GitHub. Then when Jenkins picks up, it will check out that code from our source code repository, build our Docker containers, test the application that will build the image, and then it will take the image and push it to our Docker trusted registry. From there, we can scan the image and then make sure it doesn't have any vulnerabilities. Then we can sign them. So once we've signed our images, we've deployed our application to dev, we can actually test our application deployed in our real environment. Jenkins will then test the deployed application. And if all tests show that as good, we'll promote our Docker image to production. So now, let's look at the process, beginning from the developer interaction. First of all, let's take a look at our application as it's deployed today. Here, we can see that we have a change that we want to make on our application. So our marketing team says we need to change containerize NGINX to something more Mirantis branded. So let's take a look at visual studio code, which we'll be using for our ID to change our application. So here's our application. We have our code loaded and we're going to be able to use Docker desktop on our local environment with our Docker desktop plugin for visual studio code, to be able to build our application inside of Docker, without needing to run any command line specific tools. Here with our code, we'll be able to interact with Docker maker changes, see it live and be able to quickly see if our changes actually made the impact that we're expecting our application. So let's find our updated tiles for application and let's go ahead and change that to our Mirantis sized NGINX instead of containerized NGINX. So we'll change it in a title and on the front page of the application. So now that we've saved that changed to our application, we can actually take a look at our code here in VS code. And as simple as this, we can right click on the Docker file and build our application. We give it a name for our Docker image and VS code will take care of the automatic building of our application. So now we have a Docker image that has everything we need in our application inside of that image. So, here we can actually just right click on that image tag that we just created and do run. This will interactively run the container for us. And then once our containers running, we can just right click and open it up in a browser. So here we can see the change to our application as it exists live. So, once we can actually verify that our applications working as expected, we can stop our container. And then from here, we can actually make that change live by pushing it to our source code repository. So here, we're going to go ahead and make a commit message to say that we updated to our Mirantis branding. We will commit that change and then we'll push it to our source code repository. Again, in this case, we're using GitHub to be able to use as our source code repository. So here in VS code, we'll have that pushed here to our source code repository. And then, we'll move on to our next environment, which is Jenkins. Jenkins is going to be picking up those changes for our application and it checked it out from our source code repository. So GitHub notifies Jenkins that there's a change. Checks out the code, builds our Docker image using the Docker file. So we're getting a consistent experience between the local development environment on our desktop and then in Jenkins where we're actually building our application, doing our tests, pushing it into our Docker trusted registry, scanning it and signing our image in our Docker trusted registry and then deploying to our development environment. So let's actually take a look at that development environment as it's been deployed. So, here we can see that our title has been updated on our application, so we can verify that it looks good in development. If we jump back here to Jenkins, we'll see that Jenkins go ahead and runs our integration tests for our development environment. Everything worked as expected, so it promoted that image for our production repository in our Docker trusted registry. We're then, we're going to also sign that image. So we're assigning that yes, we've signed off that has made it through our integration tests and it's deployed to production. So here in Jenkins, we can take a look at our deployed production environment where our application is live in production. We've made a change, automated and very secure manner. So now, let's take a look at our Docker trusted registry, where we can see our name space for our application and our simple NGINX repository. From here, we'll be able to see information about our application image that we've pushed into the registry, such as the image signature, when it was pushed by who and then, we'll also be able to see the results of our image. In this case, we can actually see that there are vulnerabilities for our image and we'll actually take a look at that. Docker trusted registry does binary level scanning. So we get detailed information about our individual image layers. From here, these image layers give us details about where the vulnerabilities were located and what those vulnerabilities actually are. So if we click on the vulnerability, we can see specific information about that vulnerability to give us details around the severity and more information about what exactly is vulnerable inside of our container. One of the challenges that you often face around vulnerabilities is how exactly we would remediate that in a secure supply chain. So let's take a look at that. In the example that we were looking at, the vulnerability is actually in the base layer of our image. In order to pull in a new base layer for our image, we need to actually find the source of that and update it. One of the ways that we can help secure that as a part of the supply chain is to actually take a look at where we get our base layers of our images. Docker hub really provides a great source of content to start from, but opening up Docker hub within your organization, opens up all sorts of security concerns around the origins of that content. Not all images are made equal when it comes to the security of those images. The official images from Docker hub are curated by Docker, open source projects and other vendors. One of the most important use cases is around how you get base images into your environment. It is much easier to consume the base operating system layer images than building your own and also trying to maintain them. Instead of just blindly trusting the content from Docker hub, we can take a set of content that we find useful such as those base image layers or content from vendors and pull that into our own Docker trusted registry, using our mirroring feature. Once the images have been mirrored into a staging area of our Docker trusted registry, we can then scan them to ensure that the images meet our security requirements. And then based off of the scan result, promote the image to a public repository where you can actually sign the images and make them available to our internal consumers to meet their needs. This allows us to provide a set of curated content that we know is secure and controlled within our environment. So from here, we can find our updated Docker image in our Docker trusted registry, where we can see that the vulnerabilities have been resolved. From a developer's point of view, that's about as smooth as the process gets. Now, let's take a look at how we can provide that secure content for our developers in our own Docker trusted registry. So in this case, we're taking a look at our Alpine image that we've mirrored into our Docker trusted registry. Here, we're looking at the staging area where the images get temporarily pulled because we have to pull them in order to actually be able to scan them. So here we set up mirroring and we can quickly turn it on by making it active. And then we can see that our image mirroring, we'll pull our content from Docker hub and then make it available in our Docker trusted registry in an automatic fashion. So from here, we can actually take a look at the promotions to be able to see how exactly we promote our images. In this case, we created a promotion policy within Docker trusted registry that makes it so that content gets promoted to a public repository for internal users to consume based off of the vulnerabilities that are found or not found inside of the Docker image. So our actual users, how they would consume this content is by taking a look at the public to them, official images that we've made available. Here again, looking at our Alpine image, we can take a look at the tags that exist and we can see that we have our content that has been made available. So we've pulled in all sorts of content from Docker hub. In this case, we've even pulled in the multi architecture images, which we can scan due to the binary level nature of our scanning solution. Now let's take a look at Lens. Lens provides capabilities to be able to give developers a quick opinionated view that focuses around how they would want to view, manage and inspect applications deployed to a Kubernetes cluster. Lens integrates natively out of the box with Universal Control Plane clam bundles. So you're automatically generated TLS certificates from UCP, just work. Inside our organization, we want to give our developers the ability to see their applications in a very easy to view manner. So in this case, let's actually filter down to the application that we just employed to our development environment. Here, we can see the pod for application. And when we click on that, we get instant detailed feedback about the components and information that this pod is utilizing. We can also see here in Lens that it gives us the ability to quickly switch contexts between different clusters that we have access to. With that, we also have capabilities to be able to quickly deploy other types of components. One of those is helm charts. Helm charts are a great way to package up applications, especially those that may be more complex to make it much simpler to be able to consume and inversion our applications. In this case, let's take a look at the application that we just built and deployed. In this case, our simple NGINX application has been bundled up as a helm chart and is made available through Lens. Here, we can just click on that description of our application to be able to see more information about the helm chart. So we can publish whatever information may be relevant about our application. And through one click, we can install our helm chart. Here, it will show us the actual details of the helm charts. So before we install it, we can actually look at those individual components. So in this case, we can see this created an ingress rule. And then this will tell Kubernetes how did it create this specific components of our application. We'd just have to pick a namespace to deploy it to and in this case, we're actually going to do a quick test here because in this case, we're trying to deploy the application from Docker hub. In our Universal Control Plane, we've turned on Docker content trust policy enforcement. So this is actually going to fail to deploy. Because we're trying to employ our application from Docker hub, the image hasn't been properly signed in our environment. So the Docker content trust policy enforcement prevents us from deploying our Docker image from Docker hub. In this case, we have to go through our approved process through our secure supply chain to be able to ensure that we know where our image came from and that meets our quality standards. So if we comment out the Docker hub repository and comment in our Docker trusted registry repository and click install, it will then install the helm chart with our Docker image being pulled from our DTR, which then it has a proper signature. We can see that our application has been successfully deployed through our home chart releases view. From here, we can see that simple NGINX application and in this case, we'll get details around the actual deployed helm chart. The nice thing is, is that Lens provides us this capability here with helm to be able to see all of the components that make up our application. From this view, it's giving us that single pane of glass into that specific application, so that we know all of the components that is created inside of Kubernetes. There are specific details that can help us access the applications such as that ingress rule that we just talked about, gives us the details of that, but it also gives us the resources such as the service, the deployment and ingress that has been created within Kubernetes to be able to actually have the application exist. So to recap, we've covered how we can offer all the benefits of a cloud like experience and offer flexibility around DevOps and operations control processes through the use of a secure supply chain, allowing our developers to spend more time developing and our operators, more time designing systems that meet our security and compliance concerns.

>> So, hi, my name is Daniel Terry, I work as Lead Designer at SEB. So, today we will go through why we are why we are Mirantis' customer, why we choose Docker Enterprise, and mainly what challenges we were facing before we chose to work with Docker, and where we are today, and our keys to success. >> Hi, my name is Johan, I'm a senior developer and a Tech Lead at SEB. I was in the beginning with Docker for like, four years ago. And as Daniel was saying here, we are going to present to you our journey with Docker and the answers. >> Yeah, who are we? We are SEB group. So we are a classic, financial large institutions. So, classic and traditional banking services. In Sweden, we are quite a big bank, one of the largest. And we are on a journey of transforming the bank so it has to be online 24-seven. People can do their banking business every day, whenever they want, nothing should stop them to be online. So this is putting a lot of pressure on us on infrastructure to be able to give them that service. (drum fill) >> So our timeline here. Is look, we started out with how to facilitate the container technology it has to be. 2016. And, in 2018, we had the first Docker running in SEB in a standalone mode. You need that. We didn't have any swarm, or given up this cluster since a while. For 2019, we have our first Docker-prise enterprise cluster at SEB. And today, 2020, we have the latest and greatest version of Docker installed. We are running around approximately two and a fifth at 450 specs. Around a thousand services and around 1500 containers. So, developer challenges. As for me as a developer, previous to Docker was really, really hard to get things in production. Times. It took big things and ordering services and infrastructures was a pain in the... yeah, you know what I mean? So for me, it was all about processes. We use natural processes and meaning that I wasn't able to, to see maintaining my system in production. I was handing that over to our operations teams and operation teams in that time, they didn't know how the application works. They didn't know how to troubleshoot it and see, well, what's going wrong. They were experts on the infrastructure and the platforms, but not on our applications. We were working in silos, meaning that I as a developer, only did developing things. The operations side did their things, and the security side did their things. But we didn't work as a team. I mean, today we have a completely different way of working. We will not see shapes. I mean, we have persons that were really good in maybe MQ technologies, or in some programming language and so on, but we didn't have the knowledge in the team techs to solve things, as we should have. Long lead times. I mean, everything we were trying to do had to follow the processes as we had. I mean that we should fill in some forms, send it away, hopefully someone was getting, getting back to us and saying, yeah guys, we can help you out with these services or this infrastructure, but it takes a really long time to do that. I mean, ordering infrastructure is when you're not an expert on that really hard to do. And often the orders we made or placed were wrong. When we have forms to fill in, it wasn't possible for us to do things automatically. Meaning that we didn't have the code, or the infrastructure as code. Meaning that if we didn't get the right persons into the meetings the first time, we didn't have the possibility to do it the right way, meaning that we had to redo and redo, and hopefully sometimes we got the right. We didn't have consistent set ups between the environments. When we order, as for example, a test environment, we could maybe order it with some minor resources, less CPU, so less memory, less disc or whatever. Or actually less performance on the hardware, but then we moved up to production. We realized that we have different hardware, different discs, different memories, and that could actually cause some serious problems in applications, access-wise. I mean, everyone likes to have exercise, especially if you are the maintainer of the system. That was really, really hard to get. I mean, every system has their own services, their own service, and therefore they need to apply for access to those other services. But today there's a complete difference since we only have one class to produce. Since we don't have infrastructure as a code back then, there were really lots of human errors. I mean, everyone was doing things manually. When you're coming from the Windows perspective, everything is a UI. You tend to prefer that way of working, meaning that if you used to click something in between the environments, the environments will not look the same. Life cycles. I mean, just imagine. When we have the server installed, it's like a pet. You have everything configured all from certificates to port openings, cartels, install patches, you name it. And then imagine that Windows are terminating a version and you need to reinstall that. Everything needs to be redone from the beginning. So there was a really long time taking to, to do the LCM activities, General lack of support of Microservice architecture was really also, a thing that are driving us forward with the containers technology, since we can't scale our applications in the same way as for containers. We, for example, couldn't have two applications or two processes using the same TCP port. For example, if you'd like to scale a web server, you can't do that on the same hardware. You need to have two different servers. And just imagine replacing all the excesses, replacing all the orders again for more hardware, and then manually a setting up there. The low balancer in front is a really huge task to do. And necessarily if you don't have the knowledge how the infrastructure is where you're working, then it's also really hard for you as a developer to do things right. Traditionalist. I mean, the services for us are like pets. They were really, really hard to set up. It'd take maybe a week or so. And if something was wrong with them, we will try to fix them as a pet. I mean, we couldn't just kill them and throw them away. It will actually destroy the application as this, our, like a unit box where all our things are installed. >> So, coming in from the infrastructure part of this, we've also seen challenges. For my team, we're coming from a Windows environment. So doing like a DevOps journey, which we want to do, makes it harder due to our nature in our environments. We are not used to, maybe use API, so we are not used to giving open APIs to our developers to do changes on the servers. Since we are a bank, we don't allow users to log into the servers, which means we have to do things for them all the time. This was very time consuming. And a lot of the challenges we actually still are seeing is the existing infrastructure. You can't just put that container platform on it, and thinking you're sold and everything. One of the biggest issues for us is, has been to getting servers. Windows servers usually takes like 15 minutes, Linux servers can takes up to two week in a bad day. So we really lack like, infrastructure as code. If we want a low balancer, that is also an order form. If we want the firewall opening, that's an order form. Hopefully they will not deny it. So it will go faster. So it's a lot of old processes that we need to go through. So what we wanted to do is that we want to move all of these things to the developers, so they can do it. They can own up their problems, but with our old infrastructure, that wasn't possible. We are a heavily ITIL-based organization, meaning that everything went from a cab. Still does in some way, we have one major service window every month where we take everything down. There is a lot of people involved in everything. So it's quite hard to know what will be done during the maintenance window. We lack supporting tools, or we lacked supporting tools, like log-in, good log-in tools. We have a bunch of CI/CD tools, but the maturity level of the infrastructure team wasn't that good. Again, order form and processes. If we want to, like, procure, do our procurement on a new like, storage system, or a backup system, we talk about here. So to do it is, for us, with containers, it would solve a lot of problems, because we cause we would then move the problems, not maybe move the problems to the developer, but we would make it able for them to own their own problems. So everything that we have talked about up till now boils down to business drivers. So the management's gave- gave us some policies to, or what they, how they want to change the company, so we can be this agile and fast moving bank. So one of the biggest drivers are cloud readiness, where Containers comes in perfectly. So we can build it on premises, and then we can move it to the cloud when we are ready but we can't, but we also need an exit strategy to move it back on premises if we need, due to hard regulations. Maybe you can throw it in the air. >> Absolutely. I definitely can. You're absolutely right. We need to develop things in a certain way. So we can move from infrastructure to infrastructure depending, or regardless of the vendor. Meaning that if we are able to run it on-prem, we should be able to run it in cloud or vice versa. We should also be able to move between clouds, and not be forced into one cloud provider. So that's really important for us at SEB. Short time to market is also a thing here. I mean, we are working with the huge customers. I can't name them, but they're really huge. And they need to have us being moving forward. I mean, able to really fast switch from one technology, maybe to another, we are here for them. And it's really important to us to be really fast for us to get new things out in production. All right, maybe. Nothing else? >> I don't, don't really. From the upside, we are in a huge staff DevOps transition. So, or a forced DevOps transition, which means we need to start looking at new infrastructure solutions, maybe deploy our infrastructure parts inside of containers to be able to use it the same way in the cloud. That's what we do prior, do here on premises, we have private clouds which are built on techno- technology, container technology today. So this fits quite good to have the Docker platform being one part of that one. >> Yeah. And this is solid, we are also working really, really actively on open source platforms and open source drivers. We can see that we have a huge amount of vendors in SEB, really huge ones, but we can also see that we can, facilitate open source platforms, and open source technology as well. So container technology will bring that for us. I mean, instead of having a SaaS platform and SaaS services, we can actually instantiate our own with containers and stuff. >> Also we are, since we are quite heavily regulated, the process of going through to you as like a SaaS service can take up to two years for us to go through, and then maybe the SaaS service, is it, is it what we want to use anymore? So, also we want to develop the things in our own premises and maybe, and scale it to the cloud if we need. And also we want to be an attractive employer, where maybe it's not that, the coolest thing for a young student to work in mainframe, we have a mainframe it's, it's not going anywhere, but it's hard to get people, and we want to be an attractive employer, and everyone is talking Kubernetics and containers or, and clouds. So we need to transition into those technologies. >> Yeah, we need to be open minded and necessarily facilitate the new technologies. So we can actually attract new employees. So it's really important to us to have an open mind. Our experience with Docker Containers. I mean, as I said before, scalability is a really important thing for us today. When we are using a more microservice architecture, we need to be able to Skype. We need to be scaling horizontally instead of vertically. So for that, containers are perfect storage. As we said before, we have a huge problem with environments being differently set up, since it was often manually done. Today, as we have a infrastructure as a code, it's really, really nice to have the same things exactly configured, the same in all environments. And we also have the same tooling, meaning that if I can run it on my machine, it's the same tooling I will be using to run it for test purposes or in production. That's a huge benefit for us as a developer. Time to market. I mean, today, we don't have to order service, we are using the service approach here. So we have a container cluster that are actually just sitting there waiting for our services to be hosted. So no more forms, no more calls, no more meetings before we can set up anything. We also own our problems. I mean, before, as I said, we have the processes, meaning that we ship our applications to any server. And then the operation sites take over. That's not the case now. We are actually using this as we should in DevOps. Meaning the other teams are actually responsible for all their errors as well. Even if it's on the infrastructure part, it's completely different if it's a platform's problem, because then it's the platform's team, and we can use different windows. We can try stuff out, we have an open mind. And that says that I can download and try any container image I would like on my developer machine. It's not maybe, okay to run it in production without having the security people look at it. But normally it's really, really much faster instead of waiting maybe six months, we can maybe wait one week or so. And of course less to none LCM activities. I mean, as I said before, it will take months, maybe, to do an LCM activity on multiple servers. Today, our LCM activities more or less are just switching to a new version of the image from Docker hub. That's all we have to do. So that's actually maintained during the processes we have in CI/CD pipelines. >> And the last one. So our keys to success: you should get demanded from the managers and management that everything should be a container. All the new development has to go through a container before you start ordering servers. Everything shall go through a CI/CD pipeline. We don't actually, here at SEB. Our developers build their own CI/CD pipeline. We just provide a platform for them to use it against, and the CI/CD to systems, but they build everything for themselves. Cause they know how their application works, how it should be deployed, with what tools. We just provide them with a tool set. Build a Cross Team. So you should incorporate all the processes that you need, but you should focus on the developer part, because you are building a platform for the developers, not for operations or security. >> And then maybe >> A lot of... >> you'll be able to take flight >> Yeah. Luck has nothing to do with it? Yes, it has. Of course, luck has something to do with it, even if you're really passionate, even if you're really good at some things. I mean, we got some really nice help from Dr. Inc. We were really... Came in with the technology in the right time for us to be, and we had really engaged people with these projects and that's a really luck for us to have. >> Yeah. And also we... I want to thank our colleagues, because we have another container team who started before us. And they have actually run into a lot of organizational problems, which they have sold, so we could piggyback on that, on those solutions. Also, start small and scale it. This is where Docker swarm comes, fits perfectly. So we have actually, we started with swarm. We are moving into Kubernetics in this platform. We will not force-move anything. The developers just should show us, what their- fits their needs. Thank you! >> Thank you very much.

>>Hey, everyone, Thanks for taking them to join the story. Hope you and your loved ones are safe during these tough times. Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Michelle. When I walk for GlaxoSmithKline, GSK as an engineering manager in my current role, A little protocol platform A P s, which is part of the already data platform here in G S, K R and D Tech. I live in Dallas, Texas. I have a Masters degree in computer science on a bachelor's in electronics and communication engineering. I started my career as a software developer on over these years again a lot of experience in leading and building, not scale and predicts products and solutions. I also have a complete accountability for container platforms here at GSK or any tick. I've been working very closely with Dr Enterprise, which is no Miranda's for more than three years to enable container platforms that yes, came on mainly in our own Itek. So that's me. Let >>me give you a quick overview on agenda for today's talk. I'll start with what we do here at GSK on what is RND data platform. Then I'll give you an overview on What are the business drivers that >>motivated US toe? Take this container Germany on some insight into learnings on accomplishments over these years. Working with Dr Enterprise on the container platforms Lately, you must have seen a lot of articles off there which talk about how ts case liberating technologies like artificial intelligence, mission learning, UN data and analytics for the Douglas Corey process. I'm very excited to see the progress we have made in technology, but what makes us truly unique is our commitment to the patient. >>We're G escape, help millions of people, do more, feel better and live longer. Wear a global company that is focused on three were tickles pharmaceuticals vaccines on consumer healthcare. Our main intent is to lower the >>burden on the impact of diseases on the patients. Here at GSK, we allow science to drive the technology. This helps us toe build innovative products. That's helps our scientists to make better and faster additions throughout the drug discovery by plane. >>With that, let me give you some >>context on what currently data platform is how it is enabled. A T escape started in mid 2016. What used to be called us are any information platform whose main focus was to centralize curate on rationalized all the data produced within the others are in the business systems in orderto drive, a strategic business value, standardization of clinical trials, Genome Wide Association Study Analysis, also known as Jesus Storage and Crossing Off Rheal. World Evidence data some of the examples off how the only platform was used to deliver the business value four years later. No, a new set off business rivals of changing our landscape. The irony Information Platform is evolving to be a hybrid, multi cloud solution and is known as already did a platform refering to 20 >>19 GSK's annual report. These are the four teams that there are any platform will be mainly focused on. We're expanding our data capabilities to support the use. Escape by a former company on evolving into a hybrid medical platform is one of the many steps that we're taking to be future ready. Our key focus will still be making >>greater recommendations better and faster by using that wants us. We're making the areas like artificial intelligence and machine learning. No doc brings us toe. What is Germany is important. Why are we taking this German with that? Let me take you to the next topic off. Like the process of discovery, Francisco is not an easy process. Talking about the recent events occurred over the last few months on the way. How all our lives are impacted. It is a lot of talk on information going about. Why did drug discovery process is so tough working for a global health care company? I get asked this question very frequently. From many people I interact with. Question is like, Why is that? This car is so tough on why it takes so much time. Drug discovery is a complex process that involves multiple different stages on at each and every stage. There is huge amounts of data that the scientists have took process to make some decisions. Studies have shown that only 3% off small molecules entering the human studies actually become medicines. If you're new to drug discovery, you may ask, like what is the targets? Targets so low? We humans are very complex species, >>not going into the details of the process. We're G escape >>have made a lot of investments into technology that enabled us to make data river conditions. Throw the drug Discovery pipeline >>as we implement. As we started implementing these tools and technologies to enable already did a platform, we started to get a better appreciation off how these tools in track on integrate >>with each other. Our goal wants to make this platform a jail, the platform that can work at scale so that we can provide a great user experience and contribute back to the bread discovery pipeline so that the scientists can make faster editions. We want our ardently users to consume the data, and the service is available on the platform seamlessly in a self service fashion. And we also have to accomplish this by establishing trust. And then we have to end also enable the academic partnerships, acquisitions, collaborations that DSK has, which actually brings a lot of data on value to our scientists. So when we talk about so many collaborations and a lot of these systems, what this brings in is wide range off systems and platforms that are fundamentally built on different infrastructure. This is where Doctor comes into fiction on our containers significance. >>We have realized the power of containers on how we can simplify this complex ecosystem by using containers and provide a faster access off data to war scientists who didn't go >>back and contribute back to the drug discovery by play. >>With that, let me take talk to you about >>the containers journey and she escaped. So we started our container journey in late 2017. We started working with Dr Enterprise to enable the container platform. This is on our on prem infrastructure Back then, or first year or so we walked through multiple Pelosis did a lot of testing to make sure our platform is stable before we onboard either the data or the user applications. I was part of this complete journey on Dr Stream has worked with us very closely towards you. The first milestone off establishing a stable container platform. A tsk. Now, getting into 2019 we started deploying our applications in production environment. I cannot go into the details of what this Absar, but they do include both data pipelines as well as Web services. You know, initial days we have worked a lot on swamp, but in 2019 is when we started looking into communities in the same year, we enable kubernetes orchestration on the doctor and replace platform here at GSK and also made it as a de facto orchestra coming into 2020. All our micro service applications are undead. A pipelines are migrated to the container platforms on all of these are orchestrated by Cuban additional on these air applications that are running in production. As of today, we have made the container forced approach as an architectural standard across already taking GSK. We also started deploying our AML training models onto containers on All this work is happening on our Doctor Enterprise platform. Also as part off are currently platforms hybrid multicolored journey. We started enabling container and kubernetes based platforms on public clubs. Now going into 2021 on future. Enabling our RND users to easily access data and applications in a platform agnostic way is very crucial for our success because previously we had only onto him. Now we have public clothes that are getting involved on One of >>the many steps we're taking through this journey is to >>watch allies the data on ship data and containers or kubernetes volumes on demand to our our end users of scientists. And this allows us to deliver data to our scientists wherever they want in a very security on. We're leveraging doctor to do it. So that's >>our future. Learning on with that, let's take a deep dive into fuel for >>our accomplishments over these years. I want to start with a general demand and innovative one very interesting use case that we developed on Dr. This is a rapid prototyping capability that enabled our scientists seamlessly to Monday cluster communication. This was one off the biggest challenges which way his face for a long time and with the help of containers, were able to solve this on provide this as a capability to our scientists. We actually have shockers this capability in one of the doctor conferences before next. As I've said before, by migrating all over web services into containers, we not only achieved horizontal scalability for those specific services, but also saved more than 50% in support costs for the applications which we have migrated by making Docker image as an immutable artifact In our bill process, we are now able to deploy our APS or models in any container or Cuban, its base platform, either in on Prem or in a public club. We also made significant improvements towards the process. A not a mission By leveraging docker containers, containers have played a significant role in keeping US platform agnostic and thus enabling our hybrid multi cloud Germany valuable for out already did scientists. As I mentioned before, data virtualization is another viewpoint we have in terms off our next steps off where we want to take kubernetes on where we wanna leverage open it. Us. What you see here are just a few off many accomplishments which we have our, um, achieved by using containers for the past three years or so. So with that before I close all the time and acknowledge all our internal partners who has contributed a lot to this journey mainly are in the business are on the deck on the broader take. Organizations that escape also want to time document present Miranda's for being such a great partner throughout this journey and also giving us an opportunity to share this success story today. Lastly, thanks for everyone to listening to the stop and please feel free to reach out. If you have any questions or suggestions, let's be fit safe. Thank you

>> Hi, I'm Adrienne Davis, Customer Success Manager on the CFO-side of the house at Mirantis. With me today is Artem Andreev, Product Manager and expert, who's going to enlighten us today. >> Hello everyone. It's great to hear all of you listening to our discussion today. So my name is Artem Andreev. I'm a Product Manager for Mirantis OpenStack line of products. That includes the current product line that we have in the the next generation product line that we're about to launch quite soon. And actually this is going to be the topic of our presentation today. So the new product that we are very, very, very excited about, and that is going to be launched in a matter of several weeks, is called Mirantis OpenStack on Kubernetes. For those of you who have been in Mirantis quite a while already, Mirantis OpenStack on Kubernetes is essentially a reincarnation of our Miranti Cloud Platform version one, as we call it these days. So, and the theme has reincarnated into something more advanced, more robust, and altogether modern, that provides the same, if not more, value to our customers, but packaged in a different shape. And well, we're very excited about this new launch, and we would like to share this excitement with you Of course. As you might know, recently a few months ago, Mirantis acquired Docker Enterprise together with the advanced Kubernetes technology that Docker Enterprise provides. And we made this technology the piece and parcel of our product suite, and this naturally includes OpenStack Mirantis, OpenStack on Kubernetes as well, since this is a part of our product suite. And well, the Kubernetes technology in question, we call Docker Enterprise Container Cloud these days, I'm going to refer to this name a lot over the course of the presentation. So I would like to split today's discussions to several major parts. So for those of you who do not know what OpenStack is in general, a quick recap might be helpful to understand the value that it provides. I will discuss why someone still needs OpenStack in 2020. We will talk about what a modern OpenStack distribution is supposed to do to the expectation that is there. And of course, we will go into a bit of details of how exactly Mirantis OpenStack on Kubernetes works, how it helps to deploy and manage OpenStack clouds. >> So set the stage for me here. What's the base environment we were trying to get to? >> So what is OpenStack? One can think of OpenStack as a free and open source alternative to VMware, and it's a fair comparison. So OpenStack, just as VMware, operates primarily on Virtual Machines. So it gives you as a user, a clean and crispy interface to launch a virtual VM, to configure the virtual networking to plug this VM into it to configure and provision virtual storage, to attach to your VM, and do a lot of other things that actually a modern application requires to run. So the idea behind OpenStack is that you have a clean and crispy API exposed to you as a user, and alters little details and nuances of the physical infrastructure configuration provision that need to happen just for the virtual application to work are hidden, and spread across multiple components that comprise OpenStack per se. So as compared again, to a VMware, the functionality is pretty much similar, but actually OpenStack can do much more than just Vms, and it does that, at frankly speaking much less price, if we do the comparison. So what OpenStack has to offer. Naturally, the virtualization, networking, storage systems out there, it's just the basic entry level functionality. But of course, what comes with it is the identity and access management features, or practical user interface together with the CLI and command line tools to manage the cloud, orchestration functionality, to deploy your application in the form of templates, ability to manage bare metal machines, and of course, some nice and fancy extras like DNSaaS service, Metering, Secret Management, and Load Balancing. And frankly speaking, OpenStack can actually do even more, depending on the needs that you have. >> We hear so much about containers today. Do applications even need VMs anymore? Can't Kubernetes provide all these services? And even if IaaS is still needed, why would one bother with building their own private platform, if there's a wide choice of public solutions for virtualization, like Amazon web services, Microsoft Azure, and Google cloud platform? >> Well, that's a very fair question. And you're absolutely correct. So the whole trend (audio blurs) as the States. Everybody's talking about containers, everybody's doing containers, but to be realistic, yes, the market still needs VMs. There are certain use cases in the modern world. And actually these use cases are quite new, like 5G, where you require high performance in the networking for example. You might need high performance computing as well. So when this takes quite special hardware and configuration to be provided within your infrastructure, that is much more easily solved with the Vms, and not containers. Of course not to mention that, there are still legacy applications that you need to deal with, and that well, they have just switched from the server-based provision into VM-based provision, and they need to run somewhere. So they're not just ready for containers. And well, if we think about, okay, VMs are still needed, but why don't I just go to a public infrastructure as a service provider and run my workloads there? Now if you can do that, but well, you have to be prepared to pay a lot of money, once you start running your workloads at scale. So public IaaSes, they actually tend to hit your pockets heavily. And of course, if you're working in a highly regulated area, like enterprises cover (audio blurs) et cetera, so you have to comply with a lot of security regulations and data placement regulations. And well, public IaaSes, let's be frank, they're not good at providing you with this transparency. So you need to have full control over your whole stack, starting from the hardware to the very, very top. And this is why private infrastructure as a service is still a theme these days. And I believe that it's going to be a theme for at least five years more, if not more. >> So if private IaaSes are useful and demanded, why does Mirantis just stick to the OpenStack that we already have? Why did we decide to build a new product, rather than keep selling the current one? >> Well, to answer this question, first, we need to see what actually our customers believe more in infrastructure as a service platform should be able to provide. And we've compiled this list into like five criteria. Naturally, private IaaS needs to be reliable and robust, meaning that whatever happens on the underneath the API, that should not be impacting the business generated workloads, this is a must, or impacting them as little as possible, the platform needs to be secure and transparent, going back to the idea of working in the highly regulated areas. And this is again, a table stake to enter the enterprise market. The platform needs to be simple to deploy (audio blurs) 'cause well, you as an operator, you should not be thinking about the internals, but try to focus in on enabling your users with the best possible experience. Updates, updates are very important. So the platform needs to keep up with the latest software patches, bug fixes, and of course, features, and upgrading to a new version must not take weeks or months, and has as little impact on the running workloads as possible. And of course, to be able to run modern application, the platform needs to provide the comparable set of services, just as a public cloud so that you can move your application across your terms in the private or public cloud without having to change it severally, so-called the feature parity, it needs to be there. And if we look at the architecture of OpenStack, and we know OpenStack is powerful, it can do a lot. We've just discussed that, right? But the architecture of OpenStack is known to be complex. And well, tell me, how would you enable the robustness and robustness and reliability in this complex system? It's not easy, right? So, and actually this diagrams shelves, just like probably a third part of the modern update OpenStack cloud. So it's just a little illustration. It's not the whole picture. So imagine how hard it is to make a very solid platform out of this architecture. And well, naturally this also imposes some challenges to provide the transparency and security, 'cause well, the more complex the system is, the harder it is to manage, and well the harder it is to see what's on the inside, and well upgrades, yeah. One of the biggest challenges that we learned from our past previous history, well that many of our customers prefer to stay on the older version of OpenStack, just because, well, they were afraid of upgraded, cause they saw upgrades as time-consuming and risky and divorce. And well, instead of just switching to the latest and greatest software, they preferred reliability by sticking to the old stuff. Well, why? Well, 'cause potentially that meant implied certain impact on their workloads and well an upgrade required thorough planning and execution, just to be as as riskless as possible. And we are solving all of these challenges, of managing a system as complex as OpenStack is with Kubernetes. >> So how does Kubernetes solve these problems? >> Well, we look at OpenStack as a typical microservice architecture application, that is organized into multiple little moving parts, demons that are connected to each other and that talk to each other through the standard API. And altogether, that feels as very good feet to run on top of a Kubernetes cluster, because many of the modern applications, they fall exactly on the same pattern. >> How exactly did you put OpenStack on Kubernetes? >> Well, that's not easy. I'm going to be frank with you. And if you look at the architectural diagram, so this is a stack of Miranda's products represented with a focus of course, on the Mirantis OpenStack, as a central part. So what you see in the middle shelving pink, is Mirantis OpenStack on Kubernetes itself. And of course around that are supporting components that are needed to be there, to run OpenStack on Kubernetes successfully. So on the very bottom, there is hardware, networking, storage, computing, hardware that somebody needs to configure provision and manage, to be able to deploy the operating system on top of it. And this is just another layer of complexity that abstracts the Mirantis OpenStack on Kubernetes just from the under lake. So once we have operating system there, there needs to be a Kubernetes cluster, deployed and managed. And as I mentioned previously, we are using the capabilities that this Kuberenetes cluster provides to run OpenStack itself, the control plane that way, because everything in Mirantis OpenStack on Kuberentes is a container, or whatever you can think of. Of course naturally, it doesn't sound like an easy task to manage this multi-layered pie. And this is where Docker Enterprise Container Cloud comes into play, 'cause this is our single pane of glass into day one and day two operations for the hardware itself, for the operating system, and for Docker Enterprise Kubernetes. So it solves the need to have this underlay ready and prepared. And once the underlay is there, you go ahead, and deploy Mirantis OpenStack on Kubernetes, just as another Kubernetes application, application following the same practices and tools as you use with any other applications. So naturally of course, once you have OpenStack up and running, you can use it to create your own... To give your users ability to create their own private little Kubernetes clusters inside OpenStack projects. And this is one of the measure just cases for OpenStack these days, again, being an underlay for containers. So if you look at the operator experience, how does it look like for a human operator who is responsible for deployment the management of the cloud to deal with Mirantis OpenStack on Kubernetes? So first, you deploy Docker Enterprise Container Cloud, and you use the built-in capabilities that it provides to provision your physical infrastructure, that you discover the hardware nodes, you deploy operating system there, you do configuration of the network interfaces in storage devices there, and then you deploy Kubernetes cluster on top of that. This Kubernetes cluster is going to be dedicated to Mirantis OpenStack on Kuberenetes itself. So it's a special (indistinct) general purpose thing, that well is dedicated to OpenStack. And that means that inside of this cluster, there are a bunch of life cycle management modules, running as Kubernetes operators. So OpenStack itself has its own LCM module or operator. There is a dedicated operator for Ceph, cause Ceph is our major storage solution these days, that we integrate with. Naturally, there is a dedicated lifecycle management module for Stack Light. Stack Light is our operator, logging monitoring alerting solution for OpenStack on Kubernetes, that we bundle toegether with the whole product suite. So Kubernetes operators, directly through, it keeps the TL command or through the practical records that are provided by Docker Enterprise Container Cloud, as a part of it, to deploy the OpenStack staff and Stack Light clusters one by one, and connect them together. So instead of dealing with hundreds of YAML files, while it's five definitions, five specifications, that you're supposed to provide these days and that's safe. And although data management is performed through these APIs, just as the deployment as easily. >> All of this assumes that OpenStack has containers. Now, Mirantis was containerizing back long before Kubernetes even came along. Why did we think this would be important? >> That is true. Well, we've been containerizing OpenStack for quite a while already, it's not a new thing at all. However, is the way that we deploy OpenStack as a Kubernetes application that matters, 'cause Kubernetes solves a whole bunch of challenges that we have used to deal with, with MCP1, when deploying OpenStack on top of bare operating systems as packages. So, naturally Kubernetes provides us with... Allows us to achieve reliability through the self (audio blurs) auto-scaling mechanisms. So you define a bunch of policies that describe the behavior of OpenStack control plane. And Kubernetes follows these policies when things happen, and without actually any need for human interaction. So isolation of the dependencies or OpenStack services within Docker images is a good thing, 'cause previously we had to deal with packages and conflicts in between the versions of different libraries. So now we just ship everything together as a Docker image, and I think that early in updates is an advanced feature that Kubernetes provides natively. So updating OpenStack has never been as easy as with Kubernetes. Kubernetes also provides some fancy building blocks for network and like hold balancing, and of course, collegial tunnels, and service meshes. They're also quite helpful when dealing with such a complex application like OpenStack when things need to talk to each other and without any problem in the configuration. So Helm Reconciling is a place that also has a great deal of role. So it actually is our soul for Kubernetes. We're using Helm Bubbles, which are for opens, provide for OpenStack into upstream, as our low level layer of logic to deploy OpenStack app services and connect them to each other. And they'll naturally automatic scale-up of control plane. So adding in, YouNote is easy, you just add a new Kubernetes work up with a bunch of labels there and well, it handles the distribution of the necessary service automatically. Naturally, there are certain drawbacks. So there's fancy features come at a cost. Human operators, they need to understand Kubernetes and how it works. But this is also a good thing because everything is moving towards Kubernetes these days, so you would have to learn at some point anyway. So you can use this as a chance to bring yourself to the next level of knowledge. OpenStack is not 100% Cloud Native Application by itself. Unfortunately, there are certain components that are stateful like databases, or NOAA compute services, or open-the-switch demons, and that have to be dealt with very carefully when doing operates, updates, and all the whole deployment. So there's extra life cycle management logic build team that handles these components carefully for you. So, a bit of a complexity we had to have. And naturally, Kubernetes requires resources, and keeping the resources itself to run. So you need to have this resources available and dedicated to Kubernetes control plane, to be able to control your application, that is all OpenStack and stuff. So a bit of investment is required. >> Can anybody just containerize OpenStack services and get these benefits? >> Well, yes, the idea is not new, there's a bunch of OpStream open, sorry, community projects doing pretty much the same thing. So we are not inventing a rocket here, let's be fair. However, it's only the way that Kubernetes cooks OpenStack, gives you the robustness and reliability that enterprise and like big customers actually need. And we're doing a great deal of a job, ultimating all the possible day to work polls and all these caveats complexities of the OpenStack management inside our products. Okay, at this point, I believe we shall wrap this discussion a bit up. So let me conclude for you. So OpenStack is an opensource infrastructure as a service platform, that still has its niche in 2020th, and it's going to have it's niche for at least five years. OpenStack is a powerful but very complex tool. And the complexities of OpenStack and OpenStack life cycle management, are successfully solved by Mirantis, through the capabilities of Kubernetes distribution, that provides us with the old necessary primitives to run OpenStack, just as another containerized application these days.

>> Hello, everyone. I'm Khalil Ahmad, Senior Director, Architecture at S&P Global. I have been working with S&P Global for six years now. Previously, I worked for Citigroup and Prudential. Overall, I have been part of IT industry for 30 years, and most of my professional career has been within financial sector in New York City metro area. I live in New Jersey with my wife and son, Daniel Khalil. I have a Master degree in software engineering from the University of Scranton, and Master in mathematics University of Punjab, Lahore. And currently I am pursuing TRIUM global Executive MBA. A joint program from the NYU Stern, LSE and HEC Paris. So today, I'm going to talk about building multi-cluster scalable container platform, supporting on-prem hybrid and multicloud use cases, how we leverage that with an S&P Global and what was our best story. As far as the agenda is concerned, I will go over, quickly the problem statement. Then I will mention the work of our core requirements, how we get solutioning, how Docker Enterprise helped us. And at the end, I will go over the pilot deployment for a proof of concept which we leverage. So, as far as the problem statement is concerned. Containers, as you all know, in the enterprise are becoming mainstream but expertise remains limited and challenges are mounting as containers enter production. Some companies are building skills internally and someone looking for partners that can help catalyze success, and choosing more integrated solutions that accelerate deployments and simplify the container environment. To overcome the challenges, we at S&P Global started our journey a few years back, taking advantage of both options. So, first of all, we met with all the stakeholder, application team, Product Manager and we define our core requirements. What we want out of this container platform, which supports multicloud and hybrid supporting on-prem as well. So, as you see my core requirements, we decided that we need first of all a roadmap or container strategy, providing guidelines on standards and specification. Secondly, with an S&P Global, we decided to introduce Platform as a Service approach, where we bring the container platform and provide that as a service internally to our all application team and all the Product Managers. Hosting multiple application on-prem as well as in multicloud. Third requirement was that we need Linux and Windows container support. In addition to that, we would also require hosted secure image registry with role based access control and image security scanning. In addition to that, we also started DevOps journey, so we want to have a full support of CI/CD pipeline. Whatever the solution we recommend from the architecture group, it should be easily integrated to the developer workstation. And developer workstation could be Windows, Mac or Linux. Orchestration, performance and control were few other parameter which we'll want to keep in mind. And the most important, dynamic scaling of container clusters. That was something we were also want to achieve, when we introduce this Platform as a Service. So, as far as the standard specification are concerned, we turn to the Open Container Initiative, the OCI. OCI was established in June 2015 by Docker and other leaders in the technology industry. And OCI operates under Linux Foundation, and currently contains two specification, runtime specification and image specification. So, at that time, it was a no brainer, other than to just stick with OCI. So, we are following the industry standard and specifications. Now the next step was, okay, the container platform. But what would be our runtime engine? What would be orchestration? And how we support, in our on-prem as well as in the multicloud infrastructure? So, when it comes to runtime engine, we decided to go with the Docker. Which is by default, runtime engine and Kubernetes. And if I may mention, DataDog in one of their public report, they say Docker is probably the most talked about infrastructure technology for the past few years. So, sticking to Docker runtime engine was another win-win game and we saw in future not bringing any challenge or issues. When it comes to orchestration. We prefer Kubernetes but that time there was a challenge, Kubernetes did not support Windows container. So, we wanted something which worked with a Linux container, and also has the ability or to orchestrate Windows containers. So, even though long term we want to stick to Kubernetes, but we also wanted to have a Docker swarm. When it comes to on-prem and multicloud, technically you could only support as of now, technology may change in future, but as of now, you can only support if you bring your own orchestration too. So, in our case, if we have control over orchestration control and not locked in with one cloud provider, that was the ideal situation. So, with all that, research, R&D and finding, we found Docker Enterprise. Which is securely built, share and run modern applications anywhere. So, when we come across Docker Enterprise, we were pleased to see that it meets our most of the core requirements. Whether it is coming on the developer machine, to integrating their workstation, building the application. Whether it comes to sharing those application, in a secure way and collaborating with our pipeline. And the lastly, when it comes to the running. If we run in hybrid or multicloud or edge, in Kubernetes, Docker Enterprise have the support all the way. So, three area one I just call up all the Docker Enterprise, choice, flexibility and security. I'm sure there's a lot more features in Docker Enterprise as a suite. But, when we looked at these three words very quickly, simplified hybrid orchestration. Define application centric policies and boundaries. Once you define, you're all set. Then you just maintain those policies. Manage diverse application across mixed infrastructure, with secure segmentation. Then it comes to secure software supply chain. Provenance across the entire lifecycle of apps and infrastructure through enforceable policy. Consistently manage all apps and infrastructure. And lastly, when it comes to infrastructure independence. It was easily forever lift and shift, because same time, our cloud journey was in the flight. We were moving from on-prem to the cloud. So, support for lift and shift application was one of our wishlist. And Docker Enterprise did not disappoint us. It also supported both traditional and micro services apps on any infrastructure. So, here we are, Docker Enterprise. Why Docker Enterprise? Some of the items in previous slides I mentioned. But in addition to those industry-leading platform, simplifying the IT operations, for running modern application at scale, anywhere. Docker Enterprise also has developer tools. So, the integration, as I mentioned earlier was smooth. In addition to all these tools, the main two components, the Universal Control Plane and the Docker Trusted Registry, solve lot of our problems. When it comes to the orchestration, we have our own Universal Control Plane. Which under the hood, manages Kubernetes and Docker swarm both clusters. So, guess what? We have a Windows support, through Docker swarm and we have a Linux support through Kubernetes. Now that paradigm has changed, as of today, Kubernetes support Windows container. So, guess what? We are well after the UCP, because we have our own orchestration tool, and we start managing Kubernetes cluster in Linux and introduce now, Windows as well. Then comes to the Docker Trusted Registry. Integrated Security and role based access control, made a very smooth transition from our RT storage to DTR. In addition to that, binary level scanning was another good feature from the security point of view. So that, these all options and our R&D landed the Docker Enterprise is the way to go. And if we go over the Docker Enterprise, we can spin up multiple clusters on-prem and in the cloud. And we have a one centralized location to manage those clusters. >> Khalil: So, with all that, now let's talk about how what was our pilot deployment, for proof of concept. In this diagram, you can see we, on the left side is our on-prem Data Center, on the right side is AWS, US East Coast. We picked up one region three zones. And on-prem, we picked up our Data Center, one of the Data Center in the United States of America, and we started the POC. So, our Universal Control Plane had a five nodes cluster. Docker Trusted Registry, also has a five node cluster. And the both, but in our on-prem Data Center. When it comes to the worker nodes, we have started with 18 node cluster, on the Linux side and the four node cluster on the Windows side. Because the major footprint which we have was on the Linux side, and the Windows use cases were pretty small. Also, this is just a proof of concept. And in AWS, we mimic the same web worker nodes, virtual to what we have on-prem. We have a 13 nodes cluster on Linux. And we started with four node cluster of Windows container. And having the direct connect from our Data Center to AWS, which was previously existing, so we did not have any connectivity or latency issue. Now, if you see in this diagram, you have a centralized, Universal Control Plane and your trusted registry. And we were able to spin up a cluster, on-prem as well as in the cloud. And we made this happen, end to end in record time. So later, when we deploy this in production, we also added another cloud provider. So, what you see the box on the right side, we just duplicate test that box in another cloud platform. So, now other orchestration tool, managing on-prem and multicloud clusters. Now, in your use case, you may find this little, you know, more in favor of on-prem. But that fit in our use case. Later, we did have expanded the cluster of Universal Control Plane and DTR in the cloud as well. And the clusters have gone and hundreds and thousands of worker nodes span over two cloud providers, third being discussed. And this solution has been working so far, very good. We did not see any downtime, not a single instance. And we were able to provide multicloud platform, container Platform as a Service for our S&P Global. Thank you for your time. If any questions, I have put my LinkedIn and Twitter account holder, you're welcome to ask any question

>> Thank you, everyone for joining. I'm here today to talk about ingress controllers, API gateways, and service mesh on Kubernetes, three very hot topics that are also frequently confusing. So I'm Richard Li, founder/CEO of Ambassador Labs, formerly known as Datawire. We sponsor a number of popular open source projects that are part of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, including Telepresence and Ambassador, which is a Kubernetes native API gateway. And most of what I'm going to talk about today is related to our work around Ambassador. So I want to start by talking about application architecture and workflow on Kubernetes and how applications that are being built on Kubernetes really differ from how they used to be built. So when you're building applications on Kubernetes, the traditional architecture is the very famous monolith. And the monolith is a central piece of software. It's one giant thing that you build deploy, run. And the value of a monolith is it's really simple. And if you think about the monolithic development process, more importantly is that architecture is really reflected in that workflow. So with a monolith, you have a very centralized development process. You tend not to release too frequently because you have all these different development teams that are working on different features, and then you decide in advance when you're going to release that particular piece of software and everyone works towards that release train. And you have specialized teams. You have a development team, which has all your developers. You have a QA team, you have a release team, you have an operations team. So that's your typical development organization and workflow with a monolithic application. As organizations shift to microservices, they adopt a very different development paradigm. It's a decentralized development paradigm where you have lots of different independent teams that are simultaneously working on different parts of this application, and those application components are really shipped as independent services. And so you really have a continuous release cycle because instead of synchronizing all your teams around one particular vehicle, you have so many different release vehicles that each team is able to ship as soon as they're ready. And so we call this full cycle development because that team is really responsible not just for the coding of that microservice, but also the testing and the release and operations of that service. So this is a huge change, particularly with workflow, and there's a lot of implications for this. So I have a diagram here that just tries to visualize a little bit more the difference in organization. With the monolith, you have everyone who works on this monolith. With microservices, you have the yellow folks work on the yellow microservice and the purple folks work on the purple microservice and maybe just one person work on the orange microservice and so forth. So there's a lot more diversity around your teams and your microservices, and it lets you really adjust the granularity of your development to your specific business needs. So how do users actually access your microservices? Well, with a monolith, it's pretty straightforward. You have one big thing, so you just tell the internet, well, I have this one big thing on the internet. Make sure you send all your traffic to the big thing. But when you have microservices and you have a bunch of different microservices, how do users actually access these microservices? So the solution is an API gateway. So the API gateway consolidates all access to your microservices. So requests come from the internet. They go to your API gateway. The API gateway looks at these requests, and based on the nature of these requests, it routes them to the appropriate microservice. And because the API gateway is centralizing access to all of the microservices, it also really helps you simplify authentication, observability, routing, all these different cross-cutting concerns, because instead of implementing authentication in each of your microservices, which would be a maintenance nightmare and a security nightmare, you've put all of your authentication in your API gateway. So if you look at this world of microservices, API gateways are a really important part of your infrastructure which are really necessary, and pre-microservices, pre-Kubernetes, an API gateway, while valuable, was much more optional. So that's one of the really big things around recognizing with the microservices architecture, you really need to start thinking much more about an API gateway. The other consideration with an API gateway is around your management workflow, because as I mentioned, each team is actually responsible for their own microservice, which also means each team needs to be able to independently manage the gateway. So Team A working on that microservice needs to be able to tell the API gateway, this is how I want you to route requests to my microservice, and the purple team needs to be able to say something different for how purple requests get routed to the purple microservice. So that's also a really important consideration as you think about API gateways and how it fits in your architecture, because it's not just about your architecture, it's also about your workflow. So let me talk about API gateways on Kubernetes. I'm going to start by talking about ingress. So ingress is the process of getting traffic from the internet to services inside the cluster. Kubernetes, from an architectural perspective, it actually has a requirement that all the different pods in a Kubernetes cluster needs to communicate with each other. And as a consequence, what Kubernetes does is it creates its own private network space for all these pods, and each pod gets its own IP address. So this makes things very, very simple for interpod communication. Kubernetes, on the other hand, does not say very much around how traffic should actually get into the cluster. So there's a lot of detail around how traffic actually, once it's in the cluster, how you route it around the cluster, and it's very opinionated about how this works, but getting traffic into the cluster, there's a lot of different options and there's multiple strategies. There's Pod IP, there's Ingress, there's LoadBalancer resources, there's NodePort. I'm not going to go into exhaustive detail on all these different options, and I'm going to just talk about the most common approach that most organizations take today. So the most common strategy for routing is coupling an external load balancer with an ingress controller. And so an external load balancer can be a hardware load balancer. It can be a virtual machine. It can be a cloud load balancer. But the key requirement for an external load balancer is to be able to attach a stable IP address so that you can actually map a domain name and DNS to that particular external load balancer, and that external load balancer usually, but not always, will then route traffic and pass that traffic straight through to your ingress controller. And then your ingress controller takes that traffic and then routes it internally inside Kubernetes to the various pods that are running your microservices. There are other approaches, but this is the most common approach. And the reason for this is that the alternative approaches really require each of your microservices to be exposed outside of the cluster, which causes a lot of challenges around management and deployment and maintenance that you generally want to avoid. So I've been talking about an ingress controller. What exactly is an ingress controller? So an ingress controller is an application that can process rules according to the Kubernetes ingress specification. Strangely, Kubernetes is not actually shipped with a built-in ingress controller. I say strangely because you think, well, getting traffic into a cluster is probably a pretty common requirement, and it is. It turns out that this is complex enough that there's no one size fits all ingress controller. And so there is a set of ingress rules that are part of the Kubernetes ingress specification that specify how traffic gets routed into the cluster, and then you need a proxy that can actually route this traffic to these different pods. And so an ingress controller really translates between the Kubernetes configuration and the proxy configuration, and common proxies for ingress controllers include HAProxy, Envoy Proxy, or NGINX. So let me talk a little bit more about these common proxies. So all these proxies, and there are many other proxies. I'm just highlighting what I consider to be probably the three most well-established proxies, HAProxy, NGINX, and Envoy Proxy. So HAProxy is managed by HAProxy Technologies. Started in 2001. The HAProxy organization actually creates an ingress controller. And before they created an ingress controller, there was an open source project called Voyager which built an ingress controller on HAProxy. NGINX, managed by NGINX, Inc., subsequently acquired by F5. Also open source. Started a little bit later, the proxy, in 2004. And there's the Nginx-ingress, which is a community project. That's the most popular. As well as the Nginx, Inc. kubernetes-ingress project, which is maintained by the company. This is a common source of confusion because sometimes people will think that they're using the NGINX ingress controller, and it's not clear if they're using this commercially supported version or this open source version. And they actually, although they have very similar names, they actually have different functionality. Finally, Envoy Proxy, the newest entrant to the proxy market, originally developed by engineers at Lyft, the ride sharing company. They subsequently donated it to the Cloud Native Computing Foundation. Envoy has become probably the most popular cloud native proxy. It's used by Ambassador, the API gateway. It's used in the Istio service mesh. It's used in the VMware Contour. It's been used by Amazon in App Mesh. It's probably the most common proxy in the cloud native world. So as I mentioned, there's a lot of different options for ingress controllers. The most common is the NGINX ingress controller, not the one maintained by NGINX, Inc., but the one that's part of the Kubernetes project. Ambassador is the most popular Envoy-based option. Another common option is the Istio Gateway, which is directly integrated with the Istio mesh, and that's actually part of Docker Enterprise. So with all these choices around ingress controller, how do you actually decide? Well, the reality is the ingress specification's very limited. And the reason for this is that getting traffic into a cluster, there's a lot of nuance into how you want to do that, and it turns out it's very challenging to create a generic one size fits all specification because of the vast diversity of implementations and choices that are available to end users. And so you don't see ingress specifying anything around resilience. So if you want to specify a timeout or rate-limiting, it's not possible. Ingress is really limited to support for HTTP. So if you're using gRPC or web sockets, you can't use the ingress specification. Different ways of routing, authentication. The list goes on and on. And so what happens is that different ingress controllers extend the core ingress specification to support these use cases in different ways. So NGINX ingress, they actually use a combination of config maps and the ingress resources plus custom annotations that extend the ingress to really let you configure a lot of the additional extensions that is exposed in the NGINX ingress. With Ambassador, we actually use custom resource definitions, different CRDs that extend Kubernetes itself to configure Ambassador. And one of the benefits of the CRD approach is that we can create a standard schema that's actually validated by Kubernetes. So when you do a kub control apply of an Ambassador CRD, kub control can immediately validate and tell you if you're actually applying a valid schema and format for your Ambassador configuration. And as I previously mentioned, Ambassador's built on Envoy Proxy, Istio Gateway also uses CRDs. They can be used in extension of the service mesh CRDs as opposed to dedicated gateway CRDs. And again, Istio Gateway is built on Envoy Proxy. So I've been talking a lot about ingress controllers, but the title of my talk was really about API gateways and ingress controllers and service mesh. So what's the difference between an ingress controller and an API gateway? So to recap, an ingress controller processes Kubernetes ingress routing rules. An API gateway is a central point for managing all your traffic to Kubernetes services. It typically has additional functionality such as authentication, observability, a developer portal, and so forth. So what you find is that not all API gateways are ingress controllers because some API gateways don't support Kubernetes at all. So you can't, they can't be ingress controllers. And not all ingress controllers support the functionality such as authentication, observability, developer portal, that you would typically associate with an API gateway. So generally speaking, API gateways that run on Kubernetes should be considered a superset of an ingress controller. But if the API gateway doesn't run on Kubernetes, then it's an API gateway and not an ingress controller. So what's the difference between a service mesh and an API gateway? So an API gateway is really focused on traffic into and out of a cluster. So the colloquial term for this is North/South traffic. A service mesh is focused on traffic between services in a cluster, East/West traffic. All service meshes need an API gateway. So Istio includes a basic ingress or API gateway called the Istio Gateway, because a service mesh needs traffic from the internet to be routed into the mesh before it can actually do anything. Envoy Proxy, as I mentioned, is the most common proxy for both mesh and gateways. Docker Enterprise provides an Envoy-based solution out of the box, Istio Gateway. The reason Docker does this is because, as I mentioned, Kubernetes doesn't come package with an ingress. It makes sense for Docker Enterprise to provide something that's easy to get going, no extra steps required, because with Docker enterprise, you can deploy it and get going, get it exposed on the internet without any additional software. Docker Enterprise can also be easily upgraded to Ambassador because they're both built on Envoy. It ensures consistent routing semantics. And also with Ambassador, you get greater security for single sign-on. There's a lot of security by default that's configured directly into Ambassador. Better control over TLS, things like that. And then finally, there's commercial support that's actually available for Ambassador. Istio is an open source project that has a very broad community, but no commercial support options. So to recap, ingress controllers and API gateways are critical pieces of your cloud native stack. So make sure that you choose something that works well for you. And I think a lot of times organizations don't think critically enough about the API gateway until they're much further down the Kubernetes journey. Considerations around how to choose that API gateway include functionality such as how does it do with traffic management and observability? Does it support the protocols that you need? Also nonfunctional requirements such as does it integrate with your workflow? Do you offer commercial support? Can you get commercial support for this? An API gateway is focused on North/South traffic, so traffic into and out of your Kubernetes cluster. A service mesh is focused on East/West traffic, so traffic between different services inside the same cluster. Docker Enterprise includes Istio Gateway out of the box. Easy to use, but can also be extended with Ambassador for enhanced functionality and security. So thank you for your time. Hope this was helpful in understanding the difference between API gateways, ingress controllers, and service meshes, and how you should be thinking about that on your Kubernetes deployment.

>> live from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Google Club Next nineteen Rodeo by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back. Everyone's the live Cube covers here in San Francisco for Google Cloud. Next nineteen. I'm Javert Day Volante here on the ground floor, day two of three days of wall to wall coverage to great guests. We got Kartik lost. Meena Ryan, product management director of Cloud Identity for Google and Kim parent chief security officer for Doctor on Demand. Guys, welcome to the Cube. Appreciated Coming on. >> Great to be here. >> Thank you so honestly Way covering Google Cloud and Google for many, many years. And one of the things that jumps out at me, besides allows the transformation for the enterprise is Google's always had great technology, and last year I did an interview, and we learned a lot about what's going on the chip level with the devices you got. Chrome browser. Always extension. All these security features built into a lot of the edge devices that Google has, so there's definitely a security DNA in there and Google the world. But now, when you start getting into cloud access and permissions yesterday and the Kino, Thomas Kurian and Jennifer Lin said, Hey, let's focus on agility. Not all his access stuff. This is kind of really were identity matters. Kartik talk about what's going on with cloud identity. Where are we? What's the big news? >> Yeah, thank you. So clouded. Entities are solution to manage identity devices and the whole axis management for the clouds. And you must have heard of beyond Corp and the whole zero trust model and access. One thing we know about the cloud if you don't make the access simple and easy and at the same time you don't provide security. You can get it right. So you need security and you need that consumer level simplicity. >> Think it meant explain beyond core. This is important. Just take a minute to refresh for the folks that might not know some of the innovations. They're just start >> awesome. Yeah. So traditional on premises world, the security model was your corporate network. Your trust smaller. Lose The corporate network invested a lot to get to keep the bad people out. You get the right people on and that made ten T applications on premises. Your data was on premises now the Internet being a new network, you work from anywhere. Work is no longer a thing. You work from anywhere. What gets done right? So what is the new access? More look like? That's what people have been struggling with. What Google came up with in two thousand eleven is this model called Beyond Core versus Security Access Model will rely on three things. Who you are is a user authentication the device identity and security question and last but not least, the context off. What are you trying to access in very trying to access from So these things together from how you security and access model And this is all about identity. And this is Bianca. >> And anyone who has a mobile device knows what two factor authentication is. That's when you get a text messages. That's just two factor M. F. A multi factor. Authentication really is where the action is, and you mentioned three of them. There's also other dimensions. This is where you guys are really taking to the next level. Yeah, where are we with FAA and some of the advances around multi factor >> s O. So I think keeping you on the highlight is wear always about customer choice. We meet customers where they are. So customers today have invested in things like one time use passwords and things like that. So we support all of that here in cloud identity. But a technology that we are super excited about the security, Keith. And it's built on the fighter standard. And it's inserted this into your USB slot of that make sense. And we just announced here at next you can now use your android phone as a security key. So this basically means you don't have to enter any codes because all those codes you enter can be fished on way. Have this thing at Google and we talked about it last time. Since we roll our security keys. No Google account, it's >> harder for the hackers. Really Good job, Kim. Let's get the reality. You run a business. You've been involved in a lot of start ups. You've been cloud nated with your company. Now talk about your environment does at the end of the year, the chief security officer, the buck stops with you. You've got to figure this out. How are you dealing with all this? These threats at the same time trying to be innovative with your company. >> So for clarity. So I've been there six years since the very beginning of the company. And we started the company with zero hardware, all cloud and before there was beaten beyond Corp. Where there was it was called de-perimeterization. And that's effectively the posture we took from the very beginning so our users could go anywhere. And our I always say, our corporate network is like your local coffee shop. You know, WiFi like that's the way we view it. We wanted to be just a secure there at the coffee shop, you know, we don't care. Like we always have people assessing us and they're looking at a corporate network saying, You know, where your switches that you're, you know, like where your hardware like, we want to come in and look at all like we don't have anything like, >> there's no force. The scan >> is like way. Just all go to the Starbucks will be the same thing. So that's part of it. And now you know, when we started like way wanted to wrap a lot of our services in the Google, but we had the problem with hip a compliance. So in the early days, Google didn't have six years ago. In our early days, Google didn't have a lot of hip, a compliant services. Now they do. Now we're moving. We're trying to move everything we do almost in the Google. That's not because we just love everything about Google. It's for me. I have assessed Google security are team has assessed their security. We have contracts with them and in health care. It's very hard to take on new vendors and say Hey, is there security? Okay, are their contracts okay? It's like a months long process and then even at the end of the day, you still have another vendor out there that sharing your day, that you're sharing your data with them and it's precarious for me. It just it doubles my threat landscape. When I go from Google toe one more, it's like if I put my data there, >> so you're saying multi vendor the old way. This is actually a problematic situation for you. Both technically and what operate timewise or both are super >> problematic for me in terms of like where we spread our data to like It just means that company every hack against that company is brutal for us, like And you know, the other side of the equation is Google has really good pricing. Comparatively, yes, Today we're talking about Big Query, for example, and they wanted to compare Big Query to some other systems and be crazy. G, c p. And And we looked at the other systems and we couldn't find the pricing online. And, like Google's pricing was right there was completely transparent. Easy to understand. The >> security's been vetted. The security's >> exactly Kim. Can you explain when you said the multi vendor of creates problems for you? Why is this? Is it not so much that one vendor is better? The other assistant? It's different. It's different processes or their discernible differences in the quality of the security. >> There are definitely discernible differences in quality, for sure. Yeah, >> and then add to that different processes. Skill sets. Is that writer? Yes, Double click on that E >> everybody away. There's always some I mean almost every vendor. You know, there's always something that you're not perfectly okay with. On the part of the security is something you don't totally like about it. And the more vendors you add, you have. Okay. This person, they're not too good on their physical security at their data center or they're not too good on their policies. They're not too good on their disaster recovery. Like there's you always give a little bit somewhere. I hate to say it, but it's true. It's like nobody's super >> perfect like it's It's so it's a multiplication effects on the trade offs that you have to make. Yeah, it's necessarily bad, but it's just not the way you want to do it. All right? Okay. >> All the time. So you got to get in an S L A u have meetings. You gotta do something vetting. It's learning curves like on the airport taking your shoes off. Yeah. Yeah. And then there's the >> other part. Beyond the security is also downtime. Like if they suffer downtime. How much is that going to impact our company? >> Karthik, you talked about this This new access mall, this three layer who authentication that is the device trusted in the context. I don't understand how you balance the ratio between sort of false positives versus blocking. I think for authentication and devices pretty clear I can authenticate. You are. I don't trust this device. You're not getting in, but the context is interesting. Is that like a tap on the shoulder with with looking at mail? Hey, be careful. Or how are you balancing that? The context realm? >> Yeah, I think it's all about customer choice. Again, customers have, but they look at their application footprint there, making clear decisions on Hey, this is a parole application is a super sensitive as an example, maybe about based meeting application. Brotherly, not a sensitive. So when they're making decisions about hey, you have a manage device. I will need a manage device in order for you to access the payroll application. But if you have you bring your own device. I'm off perfectly fine if you launch a meeting from that. So those are the levels that people are making decisions on today, and it's super easy to segment and classify your application. >> Talk about the the people that are out there watching might say, You know what? I've been really struggling with identity. I've had, you know, l'd app servers at all this stuff out there, you name it. They've all kinds of access medals over the years, the perimeters now gone. So I got a deal to coffee shop, kind of working experience and multiple devices. All these things are reality. I gotta put a plan together. So the folks that are trying to figure this out, what's that? You guys have both weigh in on on approach to take or certain framework. What's what's? How does someone get the first few steps off to go out towards good cloud identity? >> Sure, I only go first, so I think many ways. That's what we try to simplify it. One solution that we call cloud identity because what people want is I want that model. Seems like a huge mountain in front of me, like how do I figure these things out? I'm getting a lot of these terminologies, so I think the key is to just get started on. We've given them lots of ways. You can take the whole of cloud identity solution back to Kim's point. It can be one license from us, that's it and you're done. It's one unified. You I thinks like that. You can also, if you just want to run state three applications on DCP we have something called identity ofher Proxy. It's very fast. Just load yaps random on disability and experience this beyond >> work Classic enterprise Khun >> Yeah, you run all the applications and dcpd and you can And now they're announcing some things that help you connect back with John Thomas application. That's a great way to get started. >> Karthik painted this picture of Okay, it's no perimeter. You can't just dig a moat. The queen wants to leave the castle. All the security, you know, metaphors that we use. I'm interested in how you're approaching response to these days because you have to make trade us because there are discernible differences with different vendors. Make the assumption that people are going to get in so response becomes increasingly important. What have you changed to respond more quickly? What is Google doing to help? >> Well, yeah, So in a model where we are using, a lot of different vendors were having to like they're not necessarily giving us response and detection. Google. Every service we'd wrap into them automatically gets effectively gets wrapped into our security dashboard. There's a couple of different passwords we can use and weaken. Do reporting. We do it. A tremendous amount of compliance content, compliance controls on our DLP, out of e mail out of Dr and there's detection. There's like it's like we don't have to buy an extra tool for detection for every different type of service we have, it's just built into the Google platform, which is it's It's phenomenal from >> detection baked in, It's just >> baked in. We're not to pay extra for it. In fact, I mean way by the enterprise license because it's completely worth it for us. Um, you know, assumes that came out, the enterprise part of it and all the extra tools. We were just immediately on that because the vault is a big thing for us as well. It's like not only response, but how you dig through your assets toe. Look for evidence of things like, if you have some sort of legal case, you need vault, Tio, you know, make the proper ah, data store for that stuff >> is prioritization to Is it not like, figure it out? Okay, which, which threats to actually go after and step out? And I guess other automation. I mean, I don't know if you're automating your run book and things of that nature. But automation is our friends. Ah, big friend of starting >> on the product measures I What's the roadmap looks like and you share any insight into what your priorities are to go the next level. Aussie Enterprise Focus. For Google Cloud is clear Customs on stage. You guys have got a lot of integration points from Chromebooks G Sweep all the way down through Big Query with Auto ML All the stuff's happening. What's on your plate for road map? What things are you innovating around? >> I mean, it's beyond car vision that we're continuing to roll out. We've just ruled out this bit of a sweet access, for example, but all these conditions come in. Do you want to take that to G et? You're gonna look. We're looking at extending that context framework with all the third party applications that we have even answers Thing called beyond our devices FBI and beyond Corp Alliance, because we know it's not just Google security posture. Customers are made investments and other security companies and you want to make sure all of that interoperate really nicely. So you see a lot more of that coming out >> immigration with other security platform. Certainly, enterprises require that I buy everything on the planet these days to protect themselves >> Like there's another company. Let's say that you're using for securing your devices. That sends a signal thing. I trust this device. It security, passing my checks. You want to make sure that that comes through and >> now we're gonna go. But what's your boss's title? Kim Theo, you report to the CEO. Yeah, Awesome guys. >> Creation. Thank you >> way. We've seen a lot of shifts in where security is usually now pretty much right. Strategic is core for the operations with their own practices. So, guys, thanks for coming on. Thanks for the thing you think of the show so far. What's the What's The takeaway came I'll go to you first. What's your What's the vibe of the >> show? It's a little tough for me because I have one of my senior security engineers here, and he's been going to a lot of the events and he comes to me and just >> look at all >> this stuff that they have like, way were just going over before this. I was like, Oh my God, we want to go back to our r R R office and take it all in right today. You know, if we could So yeah, it's a little tough because >> in the candy store way >> love it because again, it's like it's already paying for it. It's like they're just adding on services that we wanted, that we're gonna pay for it now. It's >> and carted quickly. Just get the last word I know was commenting on our opening this morning around how Google's got all five been falling Google since really the beginning of the company and I know for a fact is a tana big day that secures all spread for the company matter. Just kind of getting it. Yeah, share some inside quickly about what's inside Google. From a security asset standpoint, I p software. >> Absolutely. I mean, security's built from the ground up. We've been seeing that and going back to the candy store analogy. It feels like you've always had this amazing candy, but now there's like a stampede to get it, and it's just built in from the ground up. I love the solution. Focus that you found the keynotes and all the sessions that's happening. >> That's handsome connective tissue like Antos. Maybe the kind of people together. >> Yeah. I don't like >> guys. Thanks for coming on. We appreciate Kartik, Kim. Thanks for coming on. It's accused. Live coverage here on the ground floor were on the floor here. Day two of Google Cloud next here in San Francisco on Jeffrey David Lantz Stevens for more coverage after this short break.

okay we're back here live at the IBM iod information on demand conference hashtag IBM iod this is the cube so looking the anglo Mookie bonds flagship program we go out for the events extracting from the noise i'm john furrier might join my co-host Davey lonte and we'd love to have analysts in here and in this case former analyst James Cole Beatles welcome to back to the cube thank you very much John thank you Dave pleasure see you again finger of being at IOD you're a thought leader you are an influencer you work at IBM so you you're out there the front lines doing some great work so thank you very much tell us explains the folks out there not about the show because we've had some people coming in last year you were private in but what does this fit what is this vector in context to what's relevant the market obviously big data and analytics is the hottest thing on the planet right now and you got social business now emerging categorically here but it has a couple different flavors to it right within IBM's context yeah but the messaging is simple right you got analytics that drives value outcomes social business is the preferred way of people going to operate their businesses engagement and all that is great stuff new channels marketing eccentric cetera explain to them how I OD is fitting into these megatrends into mega trends I think the hottest trends why our customers caring about what's going on here is a lot of a lot of activity around customers what is what does IOD fit into that a bigger picture yeah well you know the world has changed the world culture has changed radically and really in the last decade or so none is everywhere in the world everything is now online and digital increasingly it's streaming in terms of culture look what's happening to Hollywood is being deconstructed by the netflixs of the world you know movies and TV and music and everything is delivered online now all engagement more more engagements with your employer with your you know with merchants with your family everywhere is online things like streaming media so if you look at how the world culture has changed I yesterday I spoke here on a topic that's near and dear to my heart called big media it's the support of the ascendance of streaming media and not just the area as I laid out but in education like MOOCs distance learning we use it internally at IBM for our think fridays and Ginni Rometty and the executive team you know every Friday its cloud or its big data or whatever you know we need all need to get up to speed on the world culture has changed now analytics is fundamental to that whole proposition in terms of world culture analytics driving gagement analytics in terms of you know in a business context analytics a 360-degree view and you have data warehouses and the master data and you have predictive models to drive segmentation and target marketing and all that good stuff you know that's been in business for a long time that those set of practices they have become prevalent in most industries now not just in say retailing you know the Amazons of the world they're pervasive across all industries big data is fundamental to that you know engagement model its social social in the sense that social is one of many channels through which business is engaged with through which many people engage the social is assumed assuming a degree of importance in the fabric of modern life that goes beyond simple you know engagement with you know brands and whatnot social is how people create is how they declare who they are it's their identity and so social in your personal life we all know about Facebook and Twitter and everything else and YouTube but social has revolutionized enterprise cultures everywhere you know we use social internally of course we use our own Lotus connections most large and even many mid-sized firms now use social for interactions among employees or throughout their Val you chain so social business is about all of that it's the b2c it's the b2b it's the e2e and employ to employ all these different models of engagement they all demand a number of things obviously the social platform they demand the data of various sorts structured unstructured in shared repositories or cubes or Mars or whatnot they it demands the the big data platforms not only at respite in motion the streaming media to make it all happen in real time so at IOD if you see what the themes are this year and really it's been a building for several years cloud everything social is running in the cloud now more and more not just public Claus but Federation's of public and private clouds it's it's all about cognitive computing which is a relatively new term in the Sun sets achieved a certain amount of vogue in the last year or so which is really fundamentally as an evolutionary trend it's basically a I for the 21st century but leveraging unstructured data and and machine learning and so forth and predictive analytics and you know well the whole world learn what metadata was with the whole NSA yeah comments no it's like me and then just to wrap it up in memory real-time blu acceleration you know you need real-time you need streaming you need collaboration and social you know peer-to-peer user-generated content all of that to make this new world culture really take off and IBM provides all that we recognize that that's where the world's going we've been orienting reorienting all of our solutions around these models cloud social increasingly going forward and you know we provide solutions that enable our customers in all industries to go there and big data is fundamental to all of that as we say we're computer science meets social science that's always been Silicon angles kind of masthead view but to unpack what you just said from the market relevance you mentioned Netflix we saw Amazon coming out their own movie they're going to go direct with their own programming so so but that speaks to the direct business model of the web was originally pioneered as hey direct business model cut the middleman out but now that dimension has been explored so that kind of what you're saying there so that's cool the end user pieces interesting image is social so what's your take on the end user orientation what's the expectation because you got social you got a trash you got in motion you got learning machines providing great recommendations got the Watson kind of yeah reasoning for people so personalization recommendation engines the sea change attention time currency big days of all those buzzwords all right what is the expectation for users in the future right now we're moving into this new world where I can self serve myself monologue based the information from the web now it's all coming at everyone real time the alarms are going off as Jeff Jonas says what is that prefer user experience the direct business model people get that I think the business to see that but now the end users are now at the center of the value proposition how do what's the role of the user now they're participating in the media there are also consumers of the media yeah and they now have different devices so what's the sources of data so fundamentally yeah the role of the consumers expectations now is always everything is always on everything is always online everything is all digital everything is all real time and streaming everything is all self-service everything is all available in the palm of my hand and then the back-end infrastructure the cross-channel infrastructure users don't care about individual socials they really don't they don't really fundamentally care about Facebook or Twitter or whatever you have they just care that what their experience is seamless as they move from one channel to another they're not perceived as channels anymore they're simply perceived as places or communities that overlap too in a dizzying array of socials thus social is where we all live and thus social increasingly is mobile increasingly mobile is you know the user expects that the handoff from my smartphone to my tablet to my laptop to my digital TV sentence and so forth that it all happens through the magic of infrastructure that it's being taken care of and they don't have to worry about that handoff it all it's all part of one seamless experience yeah they always just say the search business it's the it's the it's the intersection of contextual and behavioral yeah and now you take that online behaviors community contextual is context to what people are interested at any given time yeah it's so many longtail distributions at any given time so do you see the the new media companies that the new brands that might emerge mean there's all the talk about Marissa Mayer kind of turning over yahoo and yeah she some say putting lipstick on a pig but but but is that they're just an old older branch trying to be cool but is that what users want just like media but just user experience me like we're small media but we got big ideas but the thing is the outcomes right small frying big blues go figure are the outcomes still the same company still want to drive sales for their business sell a product provide great value you just want to find great content and find people I mean the same concept of the old web search find out and run sumit give any vision on how that environment will evolve for a user like is it going to be pushed at me do you see it a new portal developing is mmm Facebook's kind of a walled garden humble don't care about that what's your take on that the future vision of a user experience online user experience online future vision in many ways I think let's talk about Internet of Things because that keeps coming more and more into the discussion it's it's not so much that the user wants a seamless experience across channel cross device all that but a big part of that experience is the user knows that increasingly they'll have some confidence that whatever environments physical environments there in our being obviously there's privacy implications that surveillance here are being monitored and tracked and optimized to meet their requirements to some degree in other words environmental monitoring internet of things in your smart home you want to configure so you smart home so that every room that you walk into is as you as you're moving there even before you get there has already been optimized to your needs that ideally there should prediction Oh Jim's walking into the bathroom so turn the light on and also start to heat up the water because it's ten o'clock at night Jim's usually takes his bath around this time you sort of want that experience to be handled by the internet of things like nest these new tools like nest oh yeah yeah so essentially then it's my user experience is not just me interacting with devices but me simply moving through environments that are continuously optimized to my knees and needs of my family you know the whole notion of autonomous vehicles your vehicle if it's your personal vehicle then you want to always autumn optimize the experience in terms of like you know the heat setting and and the entertainment justement saan the you know the media center and they're always to be tailored to your specific needs at any point in time but also let's say you take a zipcar you rent a zipcar and you've got an ID with that company or any of the other companies that provide those on-demand rental car services ideally in this scenario that whatever vehicle you you rent through them for a few hours or so when you enter it it becomes your vehicle is completely customized to your needs because you're a loyal customer of that firm and they've got your profile information this is just a hypothetical I'm not speaking to anything that I actually know about what they're doing but fundamentally you know ideally any on-demand vehicle or conveyance or other item that you you lease in this new economy is personalized to your needs while you're using it and then as it were depersonalized when you check it back in so the next person can have it personalized to their use as long as they need it that's the vision of a big part of the vision of customer experience management personalization not just of your personal devices but personalization of almost any device or environment in which you are operating so that's one kanodia wants this question no I would ask one more question on that on the user experience came on Twitter from a big data alex says while you're on the subject which a my Alex I don't great great friend of the cube but thanks for the tweet today we don't have our crowd shado-pan we can get the chat going there but why not talk about AR and I've been in reality I mean honestly Internet of Things is now not the palm of your hand it could be on your wrist or on your clothing the wearables on the glasses and just gave out three invites to google glass so this is again another edition augmented reality is software paradigm as well what is that what is it what does that fit into that what's your take on augmented reality augmented reality ok so augmented reality is that which I don't use myself I've just simply seen it demonstrated and plenty of places so augmented reality is all about layers of additional information overlaid on whatever visual video view or image view that you happen to be carrying with you or have available to you while you're walking around in your normal life so right now conceivably if this is an AR a setting that I would environment or enabled device I would be able to see for example that ok who's in this room in the sense that who is declared that they are in this area of Mandalay Bay right now and why specifically are they doing to the extent that they allow that information to be seen and o of these people here which of these people if any might be the person I'm going to be speaking with it for 30 so that if they happen to be in this environment i can see that i can see that they're to some degree they may have indicated status waiting for james could be a list to get done with the Wikibon people oh that's kind of cool so I'd see that overlay and I walk to other parts of the Convention Center I might also see overlays as I walk around like oh there's a course down as several rooms down that I actually put in my schedule it's going to start in about five minutes I'll just duck you into there because it reminds me through the overlay that's the whole notion of personalization of the environment in which you're walking around in real time dynamically and contextual in alignment with your needs or with your requirements are in alignment also with these whatever data those environment managers wish to share to anybody who's subscribing in that contact so that's a context-aware that theme have been talking about here on textual essentially it's a public space that's personalized to your needs in the sense that you have a personalized view in a dynamically update okay that sounds like crowd chat Oh are we running a trip crouched at right now crouch at San overlay so just as lovely overlay so look to the minute social network yeah tailored to the needs of the group yep that adds value on top of that data yeah so James I gotta get your take on something so we had Merv on yesterday great Adrian with my great Buy analyst day and he was on last week at Big Data NYC you know we did our own little vent there Don coincident with hadoop world so Murph said well we're just entering the trough of disillusionment for big data yeah you love those Gartner you know I love medications tools I mean they are genius and I get him but he said that's a good thing because it goes left to right so we're making progress here ok right but I'm getting nervous the internet of things I love the concept we don't we don't work on industrial internet and you know a smarter planet it's in there so I love it but I'm getting nervous here's why I look back at a lot of the promises that were made in the BI days 360-degree other business predictive analytics a lot of things that are now talking about in the hood sort of Hadoop big data movement that we're actually fulfilling with this new wave that the old wave really wasn't able to fill because the cousin sort of distracted doing sarbanes-oxley and reporting in and balanced scorecards so so I'm nervous he's old school now it when he when he referenced is something that was hot in the mid part of the two thousand decade okay go ahead okay we had a guy on today talking about balance core would you know we're just talking about crowd chat that's the hottest day in 2013 like five years or hurt anybody mentions sarbanes-oxley so what kind of saved that whole business Roy thank you and Ron but so heavy right so what I'm nervous about as we as I've seen a number of waves over the years where the the vendor community promises a vision great vision great marketing and then all of a sudden something hotter comes along like Internet of Things and says don't know this is really it so my question to you is will help us it'll help me in my mind you know close that dissonance gap is are these two initiatives the sort of big data analytics for everybody putting analytics in the hands of business users yeah or is that sort of complementary to the internet of thing his internet of things just the new big trillion dollar market that everybody's going to go after and forget about all those promises about analytics everywhere help me sure Jay through that my job is to clarify confusion hey um you know if you look at the convergence of various call them paradigms there's a lot of big data analytics is one of them right now clearly there's cloud clearly their social there's big data analytics in mobile and there's something called Internet of Things so some some talk about smack smac social mobile analytic a que a big data cloud if you add IOT of there it's smack yet I don't think it works or smash yet but fundamentally if you think about Internet of Things it's it's all about machines or automated devices of various sorts probes and you know your smartphone and whatever I know servers or even you know the autonomous vehicles those are things that do things and you know they might be sources of data they would are they might be consumers of data they might conceivably even be intermediaries or brokers or routers or data what I'm getting at is that if you look at big data analytics I always think of it as a pipeline all data it's like data sources and data consumers and then there's all these databases and other functions that operate between them to move data and analytics and insight from one end to the other of the pipe in a conceptual way think of the internet of things as well a new category of sources of data these devices whether they be probes or monitors or your smart phones and new consumers and they all those same things are probably going to be many of them consumers of data and there's message passing among them and then the data that they passed might be passed in real time through streaming like InfoSphere streams it might be cached or stored and various intermediate databases and various analytics performed on them so think of you know I like to think of the internet of persons places and things persons that's human endpoints consumers and and sources of data that's all of us that's social places that's geospatial you know you think about it the Internet of geospatial you know geo spatial coordinates of of data and analytics and then there's things there's you know automated endpoints or you know hardware even Nana from macro to nano devices so it's just a new range of sources and and consumers of data and new types of analytics that are performed in new functions that can be performed and outcomes enable when you as it were stack in and out of things with social with claw with mobile new possibilities in terms of optimization in real time it throughout the you know the smarter planet if you think about the smarter planet vision it's all about interconnected instrumented and intelligent instrumented you know instrumentation that traditionally it suggests hardware instrumentation that's what probes our sensors and actuators that's the Internet of Things it's a fundamental infrastructure within smarter planet I'd love that thank you for clarifying i could write a blog post out of that and i think i'm very well made so um now i want to follow up and bring it back to the users I know snack and I thought you were going to say a story no smack MapReduce analytics and query or sell smack on the cube so so I want bring it back to the users so we had a great conversation yesterday actually last week I'll be met it was on off you know ah be met and he said look why are there any any you know where all the big data apps he said you need three things to for big data apps you need domain expertise you need algorithms which are free and you need data scientists like oh we'll never get there all right oh so rules really free while there are that was this argument yeah it means a source if people charge him for algorithms big trouble was this point I think okay sure so and then we had a discussion yesterday about how in the early days of the automobile industry you know the forecast was this is problematic the gap to adoption is just aren't enough chauffeurs know the premise that we were putting forth in the discussion yesterday I don't know who that was with was that with Judith it was good was that look we've got to figure out a way to get analytics in the hands of the business user we can't have to go through a data scientist or some business analyst no that's not going to work and we'll never get adoption so what what's going to bridge that gap is it is it the things you talked about before all these you know cool solutions that you guys are developing the project neo that you announce today visualization yeah there's another piece of that what puts it in the hands of guys like me that I can actually use the data in new and productive ways yeah well self-service business intelligence and visualization tools that are embedded in the very experience of using apps for example on your smartphone democratization of data science down to all of us you need the right tools you need you need the tools that the new generation of people like my children's generation just adopt and they work in there just a tune from from the cradle to working with data and visualizations and creating visual you know analytics of various sorts though they may not perceive it as being analytics they miss may perceive it as working with shapes and patterns and stuff yeah you would stop yeah so playing around you know in a sandbox i love that terminology data scientists working you know sandboxes which is data that's martes that they build to do regression analysis and segmentation and decision trees and all you know all that good stuff you know the fact is your sandbox can conceivably be completely on your handheld device with all the visualizations built-in you're simply doing searches and queries you know you're asking natural language questions you're looking at the responses you're changing your queries you're changing your visualizations and so forth to see if anything pops out at you as being significant playing around it you know it's as simple a matter that that these kinds of tools such as IBM you know cognos and so forth enable everybody to become as it worried a data scientist without having to you know become a maquette their profession it's just a part of the fabric of living in modern society where data surrounds us people are going to start playing with data and they're going to start teaching themselves all these capabilities in the same way that when they invented automobiles and you know wasn't Henry 42 invented them it was in like the late 1800s by engineers in Europe and America you know it's like we didn't all become auto mechanics you know there are trained auto mechanics but I think most human beings in the modern world know that there's a thing called an automobile that has an engine that needs gasoline and oil and occasionally needs to be brought to a professional mechanic for a repair and so forth we have many of us have a rough idea of something called a carburetor blah blah blah you know in the same way that when computers came up after world war two and then gradually invaded our lives through PCs and everything we all didn't become computer scientist but most of us have an idea of what a hard disk is most of it no most of us know something about something called software and things are called operating systems in the same way now in this new world most of us will become big data analytics geeks practical into the extent that will learn enough of the basic terms of art and the relationships among the various components to live our lives and when the stuff breaks down we call the likes of IBM to come and fix it or better yet they just buy our products and they just work magically all the time without fail conversing and comfortable with the concepts to the point which you can leverage them and what about visualization where does that fit visualization visualization is where the rubber meets the road of analytics is it's where human beings how human beings extract meaning insight fundamentally maybe that's like yeah you extracted inside a lots of different ways you do searches and so forth but to play around it to actually see you know a heat map or a geospatial map or or or you know a pie chart or whatever you see things with your eyes that you may not have realized we're there and if you can play around and play with different visualizations against the same data set things will pop out that you know the statistical model just seek the raw output of a data mining our predictive model or statistical analysis those patterns may not suggest themselves and rows of numbers that would pop out to an average human being or to a data scientist they need the visualizations to see things that you know because in other words when you think about analytics it's all about the algorithms that are drilling through the data to find those patterns but it's also about the visualizations the algorithms and you need the visualizations and of course you need the data to really enable human beings of all levels of expertise to find meaning and fundamentally visualizations are a lingua franca between non-expert human beings and expert eamon beings between data scientists visualizations are a lingua franca Hey look what I saw what do you think you know that's the whole promise of tools like concert for example we demonstrated this this morning it's a collaborative environment as sharing of visualizations and data sets and so forth among business analysts and the normal knowledge worker you know it with it you know like what do you see here's what I see what do you think I don't see that here's another visualization what do you see there oh yeah I think I see what you mean and here's my annotation about what I have broader context I've you know here's what I oh this is great that's the whole notion of humans deriving insight we derive it in socials we derive it in teams of that some Dave might be adept at seeing things that Jim is just absolutely blind to or you know Nancy might see things that both of us are applying to but we're all looking at the same pictures and we're all working with the same data part art yeah it's all so let's talk about some plumbing conversations you know one of the things that we noticed we were at the splunk conference this year's blown came out of nowhere taking log files making them manageable saving time for people so the thing that comes out of the splunk conversation is that it's just so easy to use that their customer testimonials are overwhelmingly positive around the area hey I just dumped my data into this the splunk box and it grid good stuffs happening I can search it it can give me insight save me time so that's the kind of ease of use so so how does IBM getting to that scenario because you guys have some good products we've got on the platform side but you also have some older products legacy Lotus other environments collaborative software that's all coming together in converging so how do we get to that environment where it's just that he just dumped your data in and let it do its magic well Odin go that's the very proposition that we provide with our puresystems puredata systems portfolio tree data system and big insights right for Hadoop so forth big in size you know we have an appliance now yeah we have pdh so that's the whole create load and go scenario that because Bob pidgeotto unless wretched and others demonstrated on the main stage yesterday and today so we did we do that and we are simple and straight being easy to use and so forth that's our value prop that's the whole value prop of an appliance you know simple you don't need a ton of expertise we pre build all the expert in a expertise patterns that you can use to derive quick value from this deployment we provide industry solution accelerates from machine data analytics on top of big insights to do the kinds of things you're talking about with splunk offerings so fundamentally you know that's scenario we all we and we're you know we have many fine competitors we offer that capability now in terms of the broader context you're describing we're a well-established provider of solutions we go back more than a hundred years we have many different product portfolios we have lots and lots of customers who would invested in IBM for a long time they might have our older products our newer products in various combinations we support the older generations we strive to migrate our customers to the newer releases when they're ready we don't force them to migrate so we make very we're very careful in our row maps to provide them with a migration path and to make it worth their while to upgrade when the time comes to the newer feature ok so I got it don't change gears to the to the shiny new toy conversation which is you know you know we love that in Silicon Valley what's a shiny new toy there's always an emerging markets when you have see changes like this where there's a whole the new whole new wave comes in creates new wealth old gets destructed new tags over whatever the conversation goes but I got to ask you okay well Elsa to the IBM landscape that you that you're over overlooking with big data and under the under the hood with cloud etc there's always that one thing that kind of breaks out as the leader the leading toy a shiny object that that people gravitate to as as I'm honest I won't say lost later because you got you know it's not not about giving away free it's it's the product that goes well we this is the lead horse you know and in this game right yeah so what is that what is the IBM thing right now that you're doubling down on is it blu acceleration is it incites is it point2 with a few highlights right now that's really cutting through the new the new the new soil of yeah we're developing our own rip off version of google glass thank you know I'm saying it's always I mean I'm gonna say shiny too but there's always that sexy product well I want that I want L customers name I want that product which leads more you know how she lifts for other products is there one is there a few you can talk about that you've noticed anecdotally is going to be specific data but just observational a shiny toy for the consumer market or for the business business business mark okay yeah yeah is it Watson is Watson the draw is it what's the headline looking for the lead lead dog here what's the attack there's always one an emerging market well you can put your the spot here well you could say that the funny thing is the whole notion of a shiny new toy implies something tangible when the world is gone more and more intangible in the cloud so we are moving our entire portfolio beginning links the big data analytics solutions into the cloud cloud first development going forward our other core principles for the pure data systems portfolio and the light for the shiny the shiny new thing the new cons could be shiny new concept or new paradigm yeah but the shiny new thing is the cloud the cloud is something pervasive and the cloud is something that it really multi form factors that's not very sexy but customers want flexibility you know they want to acquire the same functionality either as a licensed software package and running on commodity hardware we offer that for our big data analytics offerings or as an appliance and one sort or another that specialized particular occurrence or as a SAS cloud offering or as a capability that they can deploy in a virtualization layer on top of IBM or non-ibm hardware or they want the abilities you can mix and match those various deployment form factors so in many ways the whole notion of multi form factor flexibility is the shiny new thing it's the hybrid model for deployment of these capabilities on Prem in the cloud combination thereof that's not terribly sexy because it's totally it's totally abstract but it's totally real I mean demand wise people can see them that drives my business because when you go to the cloud I mean that's where you can really begin to scale seriously beyond the petabytes the whole notion of big media it will exist entirely in the cloud big media I like to think is the next sexy thing because streaming is coming into every aspect of human existence where stream computing a lot of people who focus on Big Data think of volume as being like big headline oh god we'd go to petabytes and exabytes and all that yeah it's important some really fixate on variety all these disparate sources of data and now we have all the sensor data and that's very important we have all the social media and everything all those new sources that's extremely important but look at the velocity everybody is expecting real-time instantaneous continuous streaming you know everything we do all of our entertainment all of our education surveillance you know everything is completely streaming I think ubiquitous streaming to every device and everybody themselves continue to continuing to stream their very lives everywhere all the time is the sexy new thing Dave and I talk about running data we coined that term running data what four years ago so I got to get you got to get kind of a thought leader they're watching us and we're watching streaming data right now from these said these are your guys are streaming this is big media give us some wanna get your thought leader perspective here some thought leader mojo around um the hashtag data economy you know you need now you're moving into a conversation with c-level folks and they said James tell me what the hell is this data economy thing right so what is the data economy in your words kind of like I mean I'll say it's a mindset I'll everything else what's your take on that we've been discussing that internally and externally at IBM we're trying to get our heads around what that means here's my take as one IBM are one thought Leigh right by the way the trick of being a thought leader is just to let your own thoughts lead you where they will turn around where all my followers yeah hopefully they want to lead you to far astray where you're out in the wilderness too long that's an important type of people are talking about because people are trying to put the definition around at economy can you actually have a business construct around yeah data here is my taken on the layers of the meaning of data economy it's monetizing your data the whole notion of monetization of your data data becomes a product that you generate internally or that you source from externally but you repackage it up and then resell with value add the whole notion of data monetization and you know implies a marketplace for data based products you know when I say data I'm using it in the broader context of it could be streaming media as the kind of one is a very valuable category of you know data like you know whatever kollywood provides so there's a whole notion of monetizing your data or providing a marketplace for others to monetize their data and you take a transaction fee from that or it also means in more of a traditional big data or data warehousing bi sense it means that you drive superior outcomes for your your own business from your own data you know through the usual method of better decision if better decisions on trustworthy data and the like so if you look at data monetization in terms of those layers including the marketplace including you know data-driven okay in many ways the whole notion of a data economy hinges on everybody's realization now that the chief resource for betterment of humanity one of the chief resources going forward for us to get smarter as a species on this planet is to continue to harness the data that we ourselves generate you know people stop what data is being the new oil what oil was there before we ever evolved but data wasn't there before we we landed on earth or before we evolved we generate that so it's our own exhaust your own exhaust that's actually a renewable resource data exhaust from data from exhausted gold that's what we say data is the data exhaust it's good if you can harness it and put it together as Jeff Jones says the puzzle piece is the picture the big picture at the smarter picture the smarter planet so on the final question I want to wrap up here to our next guest but what's going on with you these days talk about what's up with you you know you're very active on Facebook will you give a good following I'll be coming up what's happening you know I'll make sure I said big birthday for you on your Facebook page what's going on in your life I'll see you're working at IBM one of the things are interesting what's on your mind these days when you're at leisure are you hanging out you think what are you thinking about the most what are you doing with your you know things with your family's cherith let's see what's going on well I hang out at home with my wife and drink beer and listen to music and tweet about it everybody knows that stuff kind of beer do you drink whatever is on sale I'm not going to say where we buy it but it's a very nice place that whose initials are TJ but fundamentally you know my my mind is an open book because I evangelize I put my thoughts and my work thoughts and love my personal thoughts out there on socials I lived completely ons but I completely unsocial I self-edit but fundamentally the thought leadership I produce that the blogs and whatnot I produce all the time I put them out there for general discussion and I get a lot of good sort of feedback the world and including from inside of IBM I just try to stretch people's minds what's going on with me I'm just enjoying what I'm doing for a living now people save Jim you're with IBM why aren't you an analyst I'm still doing very analyst style work in in a vendor context I'm a thought leader I was a thought leader as I try to be being a thought leader is like being a humorist it's like it's a statement of your ambition not your outcome or your results yeah you can write jokes too you're blue in the face but if nobody laughs then you're not a successful comedian likewise i can write thought leadership pieces till I'm blue in the face but if nobody responds that I'm not leaving anybody anywhere i'm just going around in circles so my my ambition and every single day is to say at least one thing that might stretch somebody's box a little bit wider yeah yeah I think I think IBM smart they've been in social for a while the content markings about you know marketing to individuals yeah with credibility so I love analysts I love all my buds like like Merv and everybody else and I'm you know sort of a similar cat but you know there's a role for X analysts inside of solution providers and we have any number John Hegarty we have we have Brian Hill another X forest to write you know it's it's a you know it's a big industry but it's a small industry we have smart people on both sides of the equation solution provider and influencer my line um under people 99 seats and you know I I suck up to my superiors at IBM i suck up to any analyst who says nice things about me and hosts be on their show and i was going out of my life i'm just a big suck up well we like we like to have been looking forward to doing some crowd chats with you our new crouch an application with you guys lock you into that immediately it's a thought leader haven that the Crouch as as it turns out Dave what's your take on the analyst role at IBM just do a little analysis of the analyst at IBM which you're taken well I think it's under situation I think that the role that they that IBM's put James in is precisely the way in which corporations vendors should use former analysts they should give you a wide latitude a platform and and not try to filter you you know and you're good like that and so guess what I do the usual marketing stuff to the traditional but I do the new generation of thought leadership marketing and there's a role for both of those to me marketing have said this is if I said it was I said a hundred times marketing should be a source of value to people and it's so easy to make marketing a source of value by writing great content or producing great content so yeah that's my take on a jonathan your your marketing is a great explainer you explain the value to the market and thereby hopefully for your company generate demand hopefully in the direction of your cut your customers buying your things but that's what analysts the influencers should be explainers it's you know probably Dave I mean has influenced as influences that we are with with a qu here's my take on it when you have social media of direct full transparency there's no you can't head fake anyone anymore that all those days are gone so analyst bloggers people who are head faking a journalist's head faking the house the audiences will find out everything so to me it's like it's the metaphor of when someone knocks on your door your house and you open it up and they want to sell you something you shut the door in their face when you come in there and they say hey I want to hang out I got you know I got some free beer and a big-screen TV you want to watch some football maybe you invite him in the living room so the idea of communities and direct marketing's about when if you let them into your living room yeah you're not selling right you are creating value see what i do i drop smart i try to drop smart ideas into every conversational contacts throughout socials and also at events like i od so you know a big part of what I do is I thought leadership marketer is not just right you know you're clever blogs and all that but I simply participate in all the relevant conversations where I want I want ideas to be introduced and oh by they want way I definitely want people to be aware that I am an IBM employee and my company's provides really good products and services and support you know that's really a chief role of an evangelist in a high-tech slider that's one of the reasons why we started crouched at because the hashtag get so difficult to go deep into so creates crowd chatter let's go deeper and have a conversation and add some value to it you know it's you thinking about earned media as parents been kicked around but in communities the endorsement of trust earning a position whether you work at IBM people don't care a he works at IBM or whatever if you're creating value and you maybe have some free beer you get an entry but you win on your own merits you know I'm saying at the end of the day the content is the own merits and I think that's the open source paradigm that is hitting the content business which is community marketing if your pain-in-the-ass think you're going to get bounced out right out of the community or if you're selling something you're on so you guys do a great job really am i awesome you thank you James I really love what you add to the iod experience here with this corner and all the interviews is great great material well thanks for having us here really appreciate it I learned a lot it's been great you guys are great to work with very professional the products got great great-looking luqman portfolio hidden all hitting all the buttons there so hitting all the Gulf box so this is the cube we'll be right back with our last interview coming up shortly with Jeff Jonas he's got some surprises for us so we'll we'll see what he brings brings to his a game apparently he told me last night is bring his a-game to the cube so I'm a huge Jeff Jonas fan he's a rock star we love them on the cube iza teka athlete like yourself we write back with our next guest after this short break

>>Okay. We're back live here at the cube in Las Vegas for IBM. Information on demand. I'm John furrier with Dave Volante a joined the crowd chat on crowd chat.net and we're here with less wretched than general manager of business analytics at IBM. Welcome to the cube. Thanks. I know you've got short time. And for the folks that are going about 10 minutes, we're going to just jump right into it. So obviously business analytics and social business, big data analytics and social business driving the market of the data economy. And under the hood you've got cloud and mobile apps and connected devices. So, so the number one thing that comes up is we need more data scientists and we've got to get the data in the hands of users. So, um, talk a little about your vision there and what's going on here around that rent concept. Yeah, I think it's key here as we talk about imagining the future and leveraging big data analytics, we talk about infusing a culture of analytics everywhere in the organization. >>So the key about that is to really create solutions that are fast, that are easier and that are frankly smarter throughout the organization. So how would, how does visualization play into that last one? If you could talk about that a little bit. Because as a business user, you know, you guys are describing the keynotes today, right? Somebody put up the spreadsheet like, ah, how can you make it easier for people to consume? Yeah, you want to have more rapid insight to action. This is all about whether it's predictive capabilities or we think about, you know, when you look at organizations today, you think about descriptive analytics, what's going on and then you diagnose it, why is it going on? You look at the future with predictive analytics and then even look at prescriptive analytics with things like looking at next best action and then even cognitive capabilities. >>What we really want to do here is make it a lot easier for users to not only visualize and explore, but to then see the patterns in the data to guide them. And what we're trying to do here is really change the whole analytic experience. How they make decisions, how information is presented in a much easier way. Let's talk about the difference in, in verticals. A lot of people have a conversations around business strategy and also the solutions they put out. We're horizontal, we're vertical. Something, a very vertical approach. Even at a technical level with the stack or organization, you guys have a play in all the verticals. Um, and the verticals have different outcome objectives yet. So that means different analytics. How do you guys deal with that? I mean it's an opportunity certainly, but I mean from a technology and then solutions standpoint. >>Yeah, I think a, the key here is we focus on number one, taking advantage of all data, whether it's structured or unstructured, whether it's in motion at rest. And then we want to deliver, as I mentioned previously, all analytic capability from descriptive all the way to cognitive and then all solutions. That's where you get then into the verticals. So telcos are looking at customer churn. Insurance companies are looking at broad banks are looking at risk. Public sector organizations are looking at reducing cycle time and then medical institutions really collaborative care, uh, with, with the patient. So what we try to do here is take that capability that we've got all data, all analytics, all solutions, then apply it, pinpoint it. So for example, predictive maintenance and quality for industrial sector customers. So what you see here is we've announced a solution that converges that capability again, makes it faster, it makes it easier, makes it smarter to deploy. >>I talked with this, uh, EVP CIO stat oil, and she told me that, you know, they had their data in a silo for the exploration side of the business, but when they opened up new data sets that had nothing to do with their business, like ocean data, right? It amazing, amazing transformation and improvements in their business. That's two different datasets. How do you guys enable customers to do that? One, do you, do you do that? And these verticals have to kind of go outside their kind of data competency? Yeah. Okay. Can you talk a little bit about that? So really here when you think about analytics and you think about social, mobile cloud, we're looking at systems of engagement, we're looking at presenting information to people on the frontline that could come from many heterogeneous data sources. So what we want to do is be able to bring that together. We have solutions that actually do that and then bring it together for that user, for that particular problem. >>Let's, what does your business look like? I mean, you're running this to the, the IBM analytics business analytics group. What's in the business analytics group? >>Yeah, it's a pretty big business. Um, I actually came into IBM from Cognos, so that was business intelligence. That was about six years ago. I was the col Cognos. So business intelligence is the first piece. Second piece is performance management capability. So this is financial performance management, sales performance management and disclosure management. And then you've got predictive analytics. So you get into statistics, you get into modeling, you get into, uh, kind of approaching some of the cognitive capabilities. And finally, risk management. This is financial market, credit risk, governance, risk compliance. So it's a pretty big business. We focus on customer related areas, operational areas, finance and risk. And then of course with our big data rather than we focused on this overall big data and analytics opportunity. It's a global business. It's a, something that's very important to IBM. And it's a, it's really, when you think about big data analytics, about 15 cents on every it, the >>dollar being spent. So you're there, the Cognos acquisition, I mean you could, you could argue with it one of two of the major acquisitions that IBM has. That's probably one of the two most important that and PWC, right? I mean it's really transformative. Did you, when you were at Cognos, did you ever imagine, could you even listen to the future as to what has become of this sort of big data meme? I mean it's always been sort of the vision 360 degree view of the customer and all that stuff, but the, just the amount of data, is that something that you guys actually envisioned and you're now seeing through? >>Yeah, no, I think we had, um, you know, it really is gotten to be much bigger than I would have ever dreamed of. You know, and this is the whole theme of this conference, right? It's think big, deliver big, wind big. At the same time we did have a view of where this thing would evolve to, we always talked about this whole all analytic capability and being able to present that to the user, being able to exploit the data that's out there in all the different shapes and forms. But it really has grown pervasively. We talk about, first of all imagining it, you know, you've got the four V's of big data, volume, variety, velocity, veracity, but we talk about having the vision and the value. That's the fifth and sixth really imagining the future, being able to realize it with a big data and analytics architecture and then frankly being able to trust it in terms of security, privacy and risk. >>Yeah, you guys have, Cognos was a nice exit. Was it 5 billion was the, who was the exit when an IBM purchased Cognos was most of that? It was a five, $5 billion firm from an IBM. Yeah. So, so you don't, do you think you undersold? No, no. But you know, the reality is is you, you, you, you never would have been able to see that vision through as an independent company. I mean the resources that you're required, whether it's the services, the hardware piece, the other big data analytics pieces would have been very hard for an independent company. I think to compete with that. We were talking earlier about the little different parts of the big data ecosystem. You know, you got a little doop specialists, you know, you got guys who have tried to, you know, remain independent, still doing okay. But yeah, IBM's got a lot of capabilities there. You've mentioned in your keynote project Neo, what is, what is project Neo? >>Yeah. Neo is our next generation data discovery capability. And again, in the spirit of being faster, easier, smarter, what we're trying to do is make this visualization capability as well as the learning capability available to all knowledge workers, not just modelers. So you don't need to do sophisticated modeling. It'll come back and guide you through in a very natural language kind of way. And it's, we're really trying to change how the whole analytic experience happens. And underneath Neo it takes advantage of some of the other capabilities. We talked today about blue, blue acceleration and then our analytic catalyst capability, which really puts kind of the stats and modeling in a box and brings it to that user. So we're very excited. We're going to be showing that today, uh, in our, in our main tent session. So it should be a know 3:00 PM it's at 3:00 PM yeah. >>At three 30 actually. So that's, so next generation discovery that's on across all datasets. Yes. And with analytics, uh, visualization built in for knowledge workers, you mean like a data scientist or like a worker on the front lines. So the iPhone, what, I mean, like a worker, this would be any knowledge worker, but then we're also with analytics trying to make it more pervasive. We'll embed it in a business process, for example, like a next best action or things like that. So you're going to have analytics going to the masses, embedded in a business process, but then here this is all about really looking at in a descriptive way what different things you want to see in your business in a very self service oriented way. Awesome. Awesome. What do you, what are you hearing from customers? You're out in the field, you run into big business of IBM that has a lot of legacy customers with computing platforms and paradigms that have been old-school. >>I'm going to say old school and a lot of new school rollouts and deployments. What are the top things are customers are asking for and when you want to go out, if you the dial up the top three, you know, floated to the top. What are the top three? I think that the number one thing that clients want here is outcomes. Business outcomes very quickly, right? They also want help on their journeys, right? As they look to evolve their analytic cultures, they look to evolve their platforms. They really want us to be able to go on that journey with them, help them understand their maturity, help them understand where they should be going and really help them prioritize the key actions they can take to drive the outcomes. And then it's really a, once you start, you focused on the priorities, then it's really helping them implement those. >>So we really look to, you know, our partner ecosystem as well as our services organization to help them drive those outcomes quicker. So a lot of activity you'd call the market robust at this point, very robust against 15 cents on every it dollars. It's a huge opportunity. It's a very exciting, a certain political business. Your Tim is 15 cents at every it dollar. The big data analytics component of it spent. Yeah, I mean served with service catalog, self-service with instrumentation of essentially value chains. I mean everything is now instrumented for the first time in history of business. I mean you think about it. Yeah. From oil exploration to hiring. So really appreciate your insight. A final question is what, what do you, what should people walk away with who aren't on site here, who are watching a, about what's happening here at IOD? There's so much happening. >>You know, we're talking, I think there's a lot of announcements. First of all, taking advantage of all data, whether it's insights stream. So we've got all data announcements, all analytic announcements, new solution announcements. But as we've looked out and we talked to many of our clients over the last couple of months, what do they need help with to be successful here? Because this is really all about outperforming. It's about continuously transforming in your business. They, they really want help imagining the future. So let's infuse that analytic culture everywhere in the business. Let's really, um, realize the value here. So evolve our platform and architecture and then really do it in a trusting way to drive the outcomes less. Thanks so much for your time. I know you're really busy. You've got a lot of, uh, business to do, customers to talk to a and speeches to give. Appreciate your time taking on the cube business outcomes fastest. What people want the most, help on this journey and collaborative way and implement it, scale it up. So, uh, that's, that's the future of business, social, social, business, business analytics and data. And onto the hood, the engine of innovation, cloud and mobile, social. This, the cube. We write back with our next guest after the short break, >>the cube.

okay welcome back we're live here in Las Vegas this is the cube silicon angles exclusive coverage of IBM's information on demand I'm John Farid founder silicon I am John mecos day volante and we're talking social business and our next guest is Renee ducrai decree from IBM welcome welcome to the q thank you you know I was having trouble those names but social business yesterday we were teasing it up and you know we were riffing on that because the date topic was big data analytics which shows the value sign up at the insights all the all that greatness and that's going to have the impact on business of the conversation today is social business so I want you to just take the folks through what's the new orientation towards social business it's not like it hasn't been around awhile collaboration connecting with phones and an email has been kind of the old way what's the new direction of social business why is it important now all right thank you John so I'm great question so once again my name is Renee decree and the director of marketing for IBM social business unit and you know as we're looking at social business and we think about you know the unprecedented growth and innovation that it's really been driving over the last you know really five plus years right and some of the trends that we've been seeing with a lot of the smarter planet implementations that we've done there's really some key trends that have been emerging around you know how people inform the decisions that they're making as well as you know how they're delivering value to clients and really leveraging you know one of the big payoffs of social business is really social data right and now they're leveraging the social data much better in you know really to make product and service innovation you know much more robust and what are they able to deliver to clients good so even a couple short years ago business let's say what's the point of twitter why do you even bother can you get any value out of it and what's changed you talk about that change and what's change in your customer base yeah and really you know as we look at social business it's it's so much more than you know the typical when you think of social the typical tools like Twitter and Facebook and it's really about applying social networking tools to really you know improve your business drive better you know more productivity across your your workforce just as an example you know one of the implementations that we've done working with Boston Children's Hospital classic example of how you know you take social technologies and really apply it to business right so working with Boston's Children's Hospital we've created a social networking hub that allows them to share all kinds of you know surgical procedures you think of how you know physicians were trained there's such an explosion of data right there's medical journals that are creating you know all kinds of learnings that these exploding rates doctors having a hard time keeping up with all the information as well as all the new procedures out there so now we've helped them create the social networking hub that houses all that information so now physicians all over the world are able to share that information with each other and what we're hearing are you know very good when you talk about you know return on investment right we're hearing very good anecdotal stories around you know doctors and remote locations being able to you know through a mobile device plug into that social networking hub now and actually you know see procedures being done real time instead of you know in in the world of old you had to do all of that training person-to-person very expensive not scalable now they're able to share that through this networking hub at unprecedented rates which is really helping physicians you know save lives right so we're hearing anecdotal stories about how they're able to save lives by leveraging this networking hub Renee how would you characterize this in the strategy is it really to take the best of social networking concepts maybe improve upon them you know replicate them in certain ways and as I say prove upon certainly from a maybe a security standpoint and collaboration maybe integration with other technology products and do that in sort of a walled garden type of safe approach or is it more of a hybrid between sort of what I just described and sort of the public social networks in here again I think it's um so you know a great question i think it's you know based on the needs of the client really as well you know one of the things that we're seeing is definitely a need to have a secure social infrastructure right so working with clients to deliver that based on their needs whether it needs to be you know highly secure we're not the other thing that's interesting in your question is you know leveraging all the social data providing you know social analytics around that data to really help you know here again people make better decisions as well as you know to really inform the you know the value that they're delivering so you think about crowdsourcing for example right and a lot of the examples that we see out there with various vendors crowdsourcing product development so you know being able to improve upon upon their products by being able to look to leverage these social communities if you will okay so it's really sort of both and I guess it probably depends on the industry some highly regulated industry exactly one of the little bit more private yet others like consumer packaged goods maybe they're trying to do some some testing and that's that's an industry that you came out of exactly you cut your teeth the exact dr. gamble so so I I would imagine that there's a lot of momentum in that industry what if we could talk about that a little bit how that's changed since I mean when you know the 90s it really wasn't any kind of public social networks yes I talk about that industry specifically and they would get into some other one so consumers always very you know very interesting right there's so much on that you can do especially around social right if you look at you know procter gamble has always been you know a leader in using social networks and you know social communities to you know really tap into what people like about their products what makes a product good why people you know what performance people are getting out of the products and making sure that they also improve upon that every you know kind of turn of the crank you'll see a new release around tide or you know some new innovation so they're very good at you know leveraging kind of social networks and I think as social technologies have improved and advanced they've been able to leverage that the other thing that's interesting is just when I look at you know other consumers right other consumer products companies you know one that we we point to all the time has really haven't done something spectacular was oreo at the super bowl right and we look at their real time marketing that they did with Twitter and even now they're doing some very innovative things to drive engagement with clients and really kind of improve their you know kind of relationships with clients online a lot of things on Twitter that I think are very clever and really getting people almost to to innovate and come up with you know different desserts and that kind of thing and then take pictures of them actually leveraging Twitter and vine that are you know some very clever implementations that are seeing as well so we had a comment i just posted on Twitter what is the value of Twitter I asked on the queue and some comments from the crowd captain traditional media is about building brands if I'm selling you know I see nachos you name it you see the ad on TV you sure to buy it later you kind of offline and mobile and Twitter you can not do that online so the dynamics there how does use how do you see Twitter for instance changing the game for consumers and in the in this in the spirit of brand advertising or brand marketing yeah so one thing that you know I've raised you with Twitter and for business it's I think it's really a very net way of getting information right so in our you know attention sand deficit you know environment that we live in where you know attention is definitely a commodity right that everyone's trying to win I think Twitter is a way you know in a very number of characters and people tend to like it for you know those aspects because you can really hone in on the news channels that you're interested in the topics that you're interested in and get feedback real-time very succinctly you know with a very short blurb and a point to you know an article so I see it as like four companies a way to you know very quickly send out information so now keep messages links to demos I also think it's a great way like Oreo has done with the Super Bowl you know to really get things to go viral very quickly and so you know being able to leverage now you know actually I was just on a panel at it was a real time marketing event in New York and one of the things that is always a challenge with organizations though in using Twitter is the real time aspect of it right and so I think for Oreo I actually read an article for what they did the super bowl and for those that are not familiar with it you know they did a tweet when the lights went out at the Super Bowl this year or they actually said you know you can still dunk an Oreo in the dark right there was a perfectly time and but the thing that went into that like I read this article about and you know how did they pull it off and they actually had like all of their senior executives sitting around a table that you know made the decision that you know go we're going to you know post this tweet and so you think about large organizations like IBM and you know other you know vendors would I be able to get all of our senior leaders around a table to you know approve a tweet for the you know in the evening of the Super Bowl that would probably like a very career limiting think if that was to happen right so the flash mob essentially an exact negative trend and it was amazing but you know you think about that in large organizations would be pretty hard to pull off so there's always that real-time nature of Twitter that's a challenge for large organization we have big data Alex on Twitter Alex Phillips so so it was a great great friend of the cube and he says the new commodity is attention and one wants to win it my comment was to that which I agree with the new currency is I'm a scarce resource yeah cuz there's so much information we heard from dr. Tim Buchanan yes they talk about all the alarms going off in the hospital there's so many notifications going on you could be bombarded with no noise out there so that's the new week scarce resources time do you agree with that and do you agree the attention game is what people are trying to fight for how do businesses you know extract that state from the noise of you body how people break through that yeah i think you know social technologies are a key way to do that because there's so many new sources right there's so many things that you know you really are trying to achieve that cut through right to it to an audience so definitely towards a way to do that you know in the instance that i gave you with Boston's Children's Hospital for example so taking those social technologies and applying it to a business you know from a business standpoint I think one of the things that's great is your able to you know allow people to collaborate across the world you know by doing a social technology home like we did for Boston Children's Hospital where now people in very remote locations can upload information you know download information to share so I think you know when you think about that attention deficit and attention is a key commodity one thing that I think social kind of levels the playing field with on that is being able to allow people to cut through to the things that they really care about and want to hear about so like on Twitter you know another example you know people are always wondering how do I get more followers how to get more followers if you are tweeting things that are authentic that people are that are that's relevant it's amazing the followers will come the brings up that brings up a good point i want to chill down we also have brainy on twitter who was making crowd chatter making a comment about twitter is also a huge listening funnel Jake poor way shared that Twitter data is used to identify flu breakouts we saw that yesterday here in the keynote so I asked you two questions on that and that come up you mentioned people want to try to get more followers so there's really two concepts one is the tooling available right now still early I want you to talk about kind of a vision and how you guys see that evolving on the tooling and the platforms for customers what's going to be automated what in the future will and make you know social media monitoring obsolete is it's going to be plug and play and to the gamification aspect of it people are gaming Twitter and social networks to get more followers or click on a heads okay so you can use big data solved society problems or get more followers so but gamification sees it so there the tooling kind of where we're at in your mind and also the concept of gamification and user experience okay so all very good questions so you know from a platform perspective we have a social business platform there are solutions around smarter workforce which here is you know a lot of round talent management we have an acquisition that we deal with kenexa around talent management workforce management a lot of robust solutions there there's also a lot of social analytics solutions that we offer on a platform as well as you know we're trying to expand that so you'll see you know announcements coming from us in the future really around including smarter workforce or smarter commerce solutions as well as the overall umbrella underneath the umbrella of social business now from a gaming gamification standpoint yeah I think gay like engagement is key and really trying to figure out ways to increase you know engage meeting with employees or you know with with our customers and gamification I think is a key way to do that right so I was actually out meeting with a client on maybe a week and a half ago superior group and you're actually going to interview tomm their CEO later on today and one of the things that they talked about was using a gamification element and kind of like the training of their workforce and you know kind of making it fun you know to learn aspects of the company when people first come in which I thought was a very clever use of gamification right and then there's always the you know all the contests that you see you know across all the different vendors out there we've been looking at doing you know some gamification elements at some of the conference's going forward like anyone that's going to connect you so you know some gamification there's gamification over here in the corner as well so we have voting on crowd chats a little gamification tweaking people I mean it's so this is the gesture economy right i mean where people are clicking on things and and and making their sentiment known we there with hashtags or votes so i got to ask you about the real time aspect of it you mentioned crowdsourcing earlier this is a new phenomenon the notion of actually measuring crowds i mean marketing is kind of tried to do sampling and you know most of the research analyst we talked to have old-school meant that we sampled 250 people well now you can sable turn 50,000 people so you now have instrumentation which creates interesting crowd sourcing opportunities yeah definitely in real time so you gotta do both you can't talk about those two concepts yeah so the thing that's interesting with crowdsourcing there's a miles reading an article and and uh mmm there was a statement in the article that said you know nowadays you know who's the smartest person in the room you know yesterday it used to be you know they used to point to a person right now it's the wisdom of the crowd or fifth grader exactly so you know I think I just thought that was kind of an interesting way as they opened up the article but it was speaking to crowd sourcing and how really you know we look at like product development and you know a lot of the crowdsourcing models that are out there right now you know my boss part Scott Hebner has small you know children that are like in their teens and he talks about a crowdsourcing model where his son has already bought like an airplane you know that's going to be part of like a game and you know the game's not coming for like another year and a half but they've already crowd sourced millions of dollars by getting people to buy a component that'll be used as a part of the game so you know I think there's a lot of very interesting crowd sourcing models out there and I think we're just going to see more and more of it as well well the crowd has always been a very you know efficient I'm wearing Las Vegas handicapper right i mean young people always say Oh either the football game wow that Las Vegas really got it right you know what's the crowd who actually got it right because they bet you know they make a market and the crowds determining what that line should be essentially right and so you know they really make the market and so I have to ask you a question about the philosophy of IBM regarding social is it is it my understanding that essentially you want to make social every part of an application experience is that ultimately where you're headed exactly so you know you and you'll start seeing more of that as different offerings come forward you'll see more social technologies that are being brought forward so and a lot of our solutions were you know baking in same time for example where there's the real-time collaboration piece so we're baking into a lot of the solutions so definitely as you think of being a smarter Enterprise being a social enterprise leveraging all of the social collaboration tools is a must yeah so that talks to a complete change in the user experience ok do you think you think ultimately that the the social user experience is going to dominate application design I mean you know five ten years down the road yeah you know what I think there's no going back like you know we're at a point where and actually our latest c-suite study that was just released maybe two weeks ago it's called the customer activated enterprise and it really talks about how you know you have to listen to the wisdom of the crowd and your clients in order to you know make sure their clients are always delighted right with with the products that you're delivering to market and just really the importance of listening to you know to clients going forward and I think it's um you know we're seeing that in the marketplace we're seeing that and you know solutions that people are bringing forward that different vendors are bringing forward so I think you know all boats arise we're at a point where we're never going to go back I believe and you know client you know feedback and insights into your products it's here to stay well we got we got a smart crowd smarter crowd on crouch at night and one of the questions I'll ask before we end the segment is all comment Isabel says crowdsourcing scales where the like-minded people saying with you connecting with that that came up yesterday as well as in communities you want to put you know smart people with the audience within its customers or or the chem so great comment there but the question I want to ask you and the segment is does IBM plan on crowd sourcing solutions in the smarter cloud and is the social business portfolio going to be kind of part of that smarter cloud initiative well that's a great question crowdsourcing I think we'll always crowdsource innovation piece of it so making sure that we listen to clients and factor you know all of those key learnings into the next river of our products I'm assuming that you're not saying from a funding standpoint from browser using technology like what kind what we're doing here and with the cube is some people are engaged they want to engage and you're seeing people do tweet chats and as we mentioned earlier there is an active crowd out there yeah that is activated by other people yeah and i think you know now i think crowdsourcing is like the buzz word for it but we've been doing that for a long time you know listen to clients making sure you know that we factor that into the next row of offerings that are coming out and I think you know social technologies are enabling us to you know just further evolve you know how we've listened to customers over time I remember to reiterate we said yes there's a folks you know Jonah white I was running comms back in two thousand five times room when I first started I did the first podcast with a team over there yeah back in the day and I remember they were doing crowdsourcing internally IBM had huge blogging great internal collaboration going back with it seems like a decade ago it's almost a decade ago I mean so you're not you that's not new to you yeah so final comment i want to ask you but boy rap before we wrap here is what is the new resurgence within IBM around social business okay you've been doing it internally even doing with customers that's a long time ago was you know really before Facebook and Twitter even came about what's the new tweak on the model for you guys and how do you guys look at going forward to build on your expertise ok so I think it's you know it's a couple things one it's you know really kind of harnessing here again kind of the wisdom of the crowd here and as we you know go forward with our social business platform baking in a lot of the social collaboration tools that we have into you know other solutions across the corporation it's you know leveraging one of the big payoffs is around social data so making sure that we you know provide our clients with all the social analytics you know to leverage all the data that they've been collecting over years that they may have been sitting on and not using to better engage with clients to you know deliver exceptional client experience be able to you know innovate around the product so that they're delivering you know and then finally the other piece that you know no one ever thinks about is kind of the elephant in the room but you know based on you know we talked about you know regulatory requirements or what are their needs are but just making sure that you know it's in a secure kind of social infrastructure and being able to you know help our clients with that you know I think those are some of the key things that were focused on and you know making sure that as clients you know deliver value that they're able to you know really you know here again leverage the social data and they do create here live on the cube director of marketing for social business here at IBM great conversation great engagement online there on the on the Twitter comment and how you talked about these new channels these new opportunities it's exciting times and certainly this interest and for businesses out there it's fun to watch and then opportunities so this the cube right back with our next guest after this short break the queue

okay we're back here live at IBM iod this is the cube our flagship program about the advances in there from the noise i'm john furrier the founders look at an angle enjoy my co-host David on to the co-founder Wikibon or go to SiliconANGLE calm for the reference point in tech innovation Kotobuki bun or for free research research analysts they're putting out free content and of course you always come by the Cuban see where we are in the events wouldn't be at Amazon Web Services event with all the events extracted sniffle noise and share that with you our next guest is Tom de Klerk CIO of superior group welcome to the queue thank you Dave you and I'd love to talk about CEOs because you know maybe we get the real scoop on things so first why you here at IBM iod let's get that out of the way to talk about some of the things you doing here and what you're seeing here sure so we something with the company three years we're a staffing organization why I'm here I was actually here last year and we've implemented three major systems in the last three years one was SI p and embrace the ERP system second being IBM connections and the third being IBM cognos and so over the course of the three years you know trying to roll off these projects so I'm here to to learn more about you know the capabilities of cognos and the biggest one for me is that with cognos and SI p SI p when they bought their in iowa city i'm sorry when IBM bought cognos it was 881 they had a report pack specifically for SI p customers so when they went to 10 1 and 10 2 they didn't offer that product so there they just started developing a year ago I sat down with some senior executives if the IBM organization and said you guys are losing an opportunity here customers that have an implementation of SI p and trying to get information out other than using SI piece product business analytics so they over the course of the year have been developing a rapport pack that they can offer the customers so we were part of the beta testing program for IBM and so that's I'm here to actually talk to some other people and understand something listen to you see how they impact on product development that's good well yeah there's there's the continuous improvements even I'm even on the well you look at the report pack now it's still in my mind and I fed this feedback back night there's it's a do list oh absolutely but that's not any type of a rollout of any product you can expect that so tell us a little bit more about superior group you guys your staffing company would yes we're a we're a company that's headquartered in Buffalo New York and we started back in nineteen fifty-seven it's a privately held company we have a total of 400 staff employees and roughly anywhere from seven to nine thousand contract employees so we provide workforce solutions as well as outsourcing and primarily in three areas people process as well as the outsourcing project outsourcing so on the people side it's your traditional recruiting for staff augmentation executive Research recruiting as well as direct placement and then on the process ID we offer managed services program we also offer vendor managed services independent independent contractor compliance and then on the outsourced and we have IT outsourcing HR outsourcing so that's pretty much our companies make up and tell we were talking off-camera about sort of the role the CIO and you'd like to everybody would like to be more strategic if they had time but a lot of the cios especially mid-sized organizations she doesn't don't have as many you know people to to be able to sit back and do some of those more strategic things but so a lot of CIOs talk about transforming their organization you've kind of transformed it with three huge projects in the past what would you say this was two years yes sir yeah the solicitors perspective SI p was started in july of 2010 and then started last year with the IBM connections and the Cognos reporting okay so but still over sure yeah let me that's that's some major disruptions to talk about how you manage that so it was extremely challenging especially given the number of resources that we have were a mid-sized company and when I came from a manufacturing organization spent 15 years working for manufacture Murray so going from that vertical into professional services vertical I was used to used to having a lot of IT resources to be able to support an organization so you highly leveraged the contractors and consultants both with sa fie they're implementing partner as well as an IBM it was critical for us to leverage IBM's knowledge and their skill set in order to be successful in rolling out our products so the SI p rollout was was the most complicated i'm sonia to me by far by far it took yeah we rolled out ECC six-point lead us with the full suite payroll sore we provide pay Rowling's one of our services so HCM which is human capital management the sales and distribution material management so a lot of the fundamental components of sa p we rolled out so it was it was quite a an interesting experience that was that core yes he went capital measurement or success factors no ms core we've looked at successfactors about it about a year ago and it just doesn't fit quite fit at this point in time as they start to develop in the product becomes a little more mature that may be a better fit for our organization and connections what was the driver behind bringing them in and talk about that a little bit sure so for us connections we did some analysis early this year breaking in january went a project strategy where we looked and discussed with some of our internal associates and interviewed about 30 staff employees and one of the only two fundamental things that came back out of that analysis was one we don't communicate properly our business goals throughout our organization so we're headquartered in Buffalo but we have over 50 locations worldwide so we have a lot of connect you know offices remotely and people that aren't sitting at our headquarters and that was another concern of feedback that was brought back to us was that we don't have the ability or the people with the remote offices felt like they weren't part of the the whole process or communicating properly with a corporate headquarters so we felt that this was the perfect platform to allow us to enable them so we did quite a bit of research we have a director of marketing and mobile strategy that went through a complete analysis and we looked at the SharePoint product but what's nice about the this product as opposed to the SharePoint is the the look and feel of you know like a linkedin the Twitter and that social media aspect of it so it really leveraged us leverage for us an opportunity to to collaborate and to reach out to these locations so the objectives were collaboration better communication so how is that being used how widely is it being used how did it change things it's really curious as to the outcome so actually it wasn't very positive outcome in it you know as you roll out of when you take a company you actually do a transformation into a social media type organization it's never in my opinion ever done it's a continuous process so we're still evolving as we go along I think the key is to be a front is that have the right adoption strategy so last year in january i attended the IBM connect down in florida and i actually participated an event with some senior execs with sandy sandy carter from IBM who heads up that part of the organization the social media and so it really it was about adoption strategy it's keith really not only is it just to implement it that's an IT thing and that's pretty straightforward but i've seen in the past it's always the challenge of not only just implementing the technology but then it's it's adopting and getting your users to use that and so because it had that look and feel that a lot of the people are familiar with you and your facebooks and that it's X have been extremely successful in rolling that out now that said we still think there's additional opportunities and we're looking at doing some enhancements social dashboarding looking at executive blogs a big value at four ization it's just when we roll it out not just internally to our staff employees but rolling it out to our contractors so we have anywhere between seven to nine thousand contractors working for superior and so they'll be working in our business there's a high turnover rate yoko and we'll place someone at a company but maybe work there for a month two months a week and that when they leave that now which goes away with them so we're really targeting our value add to be able to roll this out to even to our contract employee so when they go work on site they start to collaborate share information and invent that they do leave we still harvest that information that's bi-directional too I mean they're a representation of your company even though they are transient but so you can communicate to them like you say executive blogs what the what the corporate messaging is policies whatever it is that they can take it to as representing you essentially as an extension of your workforce and as you say you get knowledge back right oh absolutely and so one of the key values that we places that when we did that analysis I said earlier is that we didn't feel like there was a communication so now with the social media platform in place now we have people that are in our bangalore office can communicate and feel like they're in touch with our corporate headquarters and also their co-workers that are saying it on-site facilities that our customers so it really is improved that collaboration and communication it's really brought the organization together did you ever think at one point we just used you know publicly available social tools Facebook or LinkedIn just start a blog yet we and our organization has done that we have the Twitter count the facebook account but this was an opportunity for us to develop it and Taylor more customized it more for hours or specific names you've integrated those public network lots of little works right you if you go to our website you'll see the links and connections right into that yeah so functionally it's obviously a more rich environment connections right so why don't we talk about that a little bit what sort of what additional value did that bring to you is paying for it well sure is you how to justify it what value did you get there several areas that we feel it brought value one is you can it's a platform that can accessed anywhere so you don't have to be on our internal network to be able to access and collaborate and communicate right so that was a huge value add for our organization allows us to connect and stay stay together it empowered our users to be able to contribute openly be able to collaborate to be able to innovate and be able to take calculated risks from IT standpoint we see a reduction in email I don't have the actual numbers to tell you what percentage reduction an email but I'm pushing very strongly that we have an opportunity to use and leverage connections instead of sending emails traditionally you know people send an email check this where with connections you put the hosts the content or you put the files upload the files in there and they'll send a notification so you're not plugging you know plugging up your email system with additional data so yeah there's a Productivity aspect of that absolutely I think oh god I was Christian and the other thing is that you know the time to market for solutions has definitely reduced and even the the increase in efficiency so I know we spent some time looking at like this ed brillz book on opting in and then there's his situation identifies in the book is the traditional product manager they find him in manufacturing is really moving more towards a social product manager leveraging the IBM connections or for superior we took an opportunity to do that so I got to ask you about the social software Dave and I've been tracking jive all these other companies amor the facebook for the enterprise is kind of what they've been calling it but the feedback we've been hearing from CIOs was that I just favorited I signed something is it's in the social media team is running it that other team and so we were talking about the metaphor that the social media teams are a lot like the web teams in the 90s oh yeah we need a website yeah the kids are doing it right like the new guys the young guys are putting a web pages searchable it grew obviously it's relevant the websites grew and became big business e-commerce social media is the same way it's like everyone can see that it's real they know it's gonna be important it's not a lot of budget associating there's not a lot of personnel so the issue is is that they get implemented these say if they get sold these software packages and then they got to implement it kind of like communities yet this other stuff happening twitter facebook linkedin events live streaming so a lot of other social activations going on so so i want to get your take on as a CIO do you look at get involved in levels like that on the app's side is those apps decisions made with that in mind of like the personnel costs and and and the actual to run it and i've got some guys just for the hey i bought that i don't use anymore why it's just too much hassle right so there's a hassle factor what do you take what's your to my taste first of all I'm very big on when i get an asset or acquire an asset as best you realizing that asset you know and i came to this organization i saw several situations where assets were purchased to your point and just sitting idle because maybe it was a head take additional initiative to implement that so in our situation i work very closely with a gentleman that really did most of the work and doing all the research and its name is Franco he handles our he's a director of digital mobile strategy and so he went out and did all the work for us came back and sat down with myself and our president reviewed what makes the most sense I came from a manufacturing facilities it utilized the SharePoint so I was big at SharePoint so I was kind of was pushing in that direction but when I actually sat down with him i we went through really the true value adds what we can gain from that it was really a no-brainer for us do you ever have a situation where you put you put your fist down so hey you know what we just got to abandon that right now let's cut our losses move on in physics for example is another use case where same same situation I won't name the vendor was an IBM it was another one where hey want to do some new things we don't the staff the guys making us drive this engine until we get an roi out of in other words they were like we're going to ride this Pony until either collapses or ROI comes out of it when in reality they just driving down a cul-de-sac yeah so at some point in an emerging market like we're in agile is the option to abandon right you got to know and to cut the cord right oh absolutely and I'm not you know I'm not in a position where I'd say absolutely one band if it made sense it's right it's got to be a business decision well altima tlie position has always been it's got to work with the business and let the business drive and not i.t i.t is there to enable the business so we can provide our input and on the day they let them make the decisions now we didn't talk about the Cognos implementation any kind of depth so tell me tell me what you're doing with with cognos we talked a little bit about the essay p extension but how are you using cognos so primarily we have as i mentioned before part of our businesses and the managed services programs we offer MSPs which we have a tool called work nexus which is our vendor management solution involves our MSP they our customers will use this tool for recruiting for looking at time clocks looking at the proving timesheets invoicing and so forth so we have some pretty strict requirements of pulling that information now in providing reports to our customers we use our platform developed on it's based on abdominal environment so we in order to give them the reports we create what's called ad-hoc reports out of Domino very limited capabilities so that was our first target area was to use cognos to provide more enrich type dashboards active type reports for our customers we're just about completed with that part of the project the next is really to pulp reports out of sa p and so the standard reports that that i have with that IBM has provided is really more in the SD area as well as in the MM area so for our organization we're so heavily on payroll and people we really need to have report start in that area so and the next year i'm trying to work with a partner local partner in our area LPA systems to help develop more reports tailored towards SI p to provide workers compensation but i need to run a report that pulls out the work of compensation to do an essay p is so much more costly than to do it out of out of the Cognos so that's our goal in the next year's really to pull more reports using cognos out of sa p okay um what if we could talk a little bit about cloud which you're sort of stance on that you know some cio say no way others say yes others get you know shadow I t he coming to the cloud what's the state of cloud from an infrastructure standpoint and even a SAS you organization sure so we're currently in the process actually I'm looking at our organization and a traditional IT become a cost center so I'm trying to actually move it into a profit Center by offering services so we're targeting in the Buffalo area anyways small companies we're offering hosting cloud-based service whether it be private or rather be a public cloud services I'm not opposed at all to using a cloud-based solution in fact I'm on my essay p side for my dr site i'm doing just that i have a contract with a where the company is providing me a a cloud-based solution for my dr ok so but so you use it for disaster recovery are you doing any sort of Production apps in the cloud or would you ever consider doing that or no because we would consider i'm not sure if i consider this company because our information is very this very controlled we fall under the ssae 16 because we house that we host data that has in the HIPAA regulations all the different regulations so we have people social security number in that so to offer that in the cloud not to say that's not secure but we have much better control and we have an infrastructure in our organization that has enough bandwidth has enough cooling all the normal environmental that you have for data center so right now for us it makes more sense for us but in three to five years from now maybe even sooner that will probably look at possibly what's the cost differentiation between doing it in house having the resources to a versus offering what about test endeavor you do any tested dev stuff oh yes we have in our SP environment have a traditional three-tier landscape so we've got a dev quality in the production all of which is housed inside the decision actually to have that to have that done was before I joined the company so we the decision was made at say in May of 2010 I joined in July had I been before and I really would have pushed to have that hosted somewhere else because my opinion for an organization mostly like ours we don't have the technical expertise to be able to you know the basis capabilities the architecture the hardware all that type of stuff so I think that's a better fit for most people in do an essay p implementations of looking at that may be the first second or third year if you trust me we don't have that experience if you're new to an essay p type environment no no no no use case for it right no using Bitcoin at all no you have a from Association last night about Bitcoin still look at the next to look crazy were down yeah PayPal's looking at is that in the news it's not mainstream enterprises yeah we loved we loved talking to see iOS housley Wikibon community we have a lot of CIOs with a lot of CEOs in our network and you know this is challenging opportunity but the days the good days are ahead i mean we're seeing huge investment opportunity growth new top line drivers that are changing the business where the CIO is kind of CEO like dealing with all the normal cost side but really drop driving profits so so i got to get the question before we end the segment is cost center versus profit center and you guys mentioned you guys are down pnl profit center right how does that change the game mindset wise and how you execute and what you can adopt and how fast well obviously the owners of the organization love the fact that we're offering that as a as an opportunity to generate some additional revenue i'm assuming you took the facilities equation out of your pnl yeah right what was it so good before i joined the organization write that down at her i keep track of that for sure okay go ahead but before join the our organization i joke jokingly say this we had more bandwidth in some banks I mean we really had the the infrastructure in place I fully redone it and so forth so we had long-term contracts so I've got five-year contracts with services with companies that I have to keep otherwise you can pay the penalty and get out but so we said you know why not leverage and we did a virtualization project when I first joined we recovered over fifty percent of our data center space so I have all this empty space I've all this band was sitting here I've got all the redundancies in the environment to be able to support that why not go after a small company i'm not going to be able to compete you know with the bigger companies and that but we're targeting some of the local companies and we're doing quite successful yeah why not that's great yeah awesome okay we're here live at the iod conference this is the cube we'll be right back with our next guest after this short break stay with us the q

okay we're back here live in las vegas for ibm's information on demand exclusive coverage by SiliconANGLE this is a cube our flagship program we go out to the events extract to see with knows i'm john for either found or so looking angle we have two guests here today tom morris row and janine grosso classes across the cube acquisition IBM you guys closed the your company the now factory just recently big deal social service providers mobile need to talk much about mobile we talk about big data analytics yesterday all the insights today it's kind of social business but we've been commenting about what's under the hood cloud and mobiles obviously one of them tom how did how did you guys get to the point where you guys were acquired by my IBM because you you're in the mobile area mainly specialized and that's a hot area yeah consumers asia society yeah just a little bit about what what it is we do first so i guess we're we're experts in understanding users experience on when they use their mobile devices on the services so we're able to understand the ones and zeros flown up and down the wire and translate that into a customer's experience and and we get insights and those customers and that information then we can use across the business the mobile business in the marketing side of the house and the technical side of the house and the care side of the house so you're you're an entrepreneur you've been found you found the company in 2007 shared the folks what was the breakout moment for you guys I mean what product what market trend really catapulted you're offering well we started I guess you know you don't have to go back very far in telecoms when you know mobile dear sir wasn't very sophisticated back in 2006 2007 you had if you remember GPRS and all you could get if you were lucky with the weather and it came in text form you know you know it was before any of these smartphones stay there it seems a long long time ago so back then we started working with mobile operations had no ability at all even if it was working or not working so was the very idea came out and blackberries out there but the iphone really kind of it was really going to say wow yeah that's when everything changed smarter than the other person in sport mode at that time people were still wondering you know was you know was there enough value in this in this mobile data so we started in the early days helping operators understand whether the disservice was working on us din with the introductions of the smartphone and the explosion of new applications and services we we got into the whole area of of looking deeper into that understanding what the experience of the customers were what their what their what are the services work on enough from a technology perspective and and also working with a customer with our customers which is the mobile operators to understand you know what better services that can provide so talk about the big data angle here because obviously you know each other side of house in large enterprises big data is in in the data center people are using data to measure all kinds of activity within the data center the physical plant if you will of a company you know service providers if their customers they have to be aggressive with big data they have all kinds of revenue driving concerns hey what's preference of my customer to operational efficiencies can you go a little bit into detail and some of the things that they do you guys can you talk about face well well maybe I'll start with why right so obviously big data and analytics is you know one of our four strategic focus items at the at the corporate level right so again who more than a telco has a big data problem right with just an explosion of data how do they capitalize on it how do they monetize it how do they find ways to get savings within the organization so we took a we took a deep look into telco to say where would it make sense to invest that would really complement what we already offer with big data and our analytics portfolio and it kind of came to us the now factory came to us through a client who got exposed to their technology and it you know we just had our vision was so aligned that it just made sense to obviously kind of take that next step and take them off the market taken off the market marry them and you know choir so what does the driver obviously talk about some of the dynamic cuz you do you've been involved in M&A in business development the service provider market obviously relevant the old days was subscribers subscriber growth that's it now welcome to the internet with iphones and the smart phones you have revenue threats from sources of the competitive nature at the edge to growth just physical growth on the operations side what was what do you guys look at an IBM what's your what's your solution what do you guys sell to the providers these case and what are their top concerns well i think all of the concerns that you named basically right it's how can they differentiate themselves from their competitors right and how can they keep subscribers how can they keep their clients happy because if they keep their clients happy and limit the number of calls that they're going to let's say put in because of quality issues then obviously they'll be able to retain them so the subscriber experience i think is key you know definitely one of the you know kind of big angles that the csps are trying to do because of the competitive nature of this business so i think i've seen that there so that there is their normal business and that's in terms of their current business which is the money they're making from their subscribers and the services they are providing currently and they need to optimize those businesses and then most in most the world and especially in the developed world that there's a lot of focus in that area so how do you deliver those services at more and more efficiently but then at the same time they need to look to the future and they say well you know you know how do we fit into the new ecosystem and we would work with service providers and given them better insights as to how that has changed in over the use cases did you see both of you pumped into with these guys well this is the i guess there's a number of different ways they're trying to generate new revenue so I'm and to be to be honest and some of these are very early stages and there's some other stuff that they're they would try to do in terms of provide Dean alternatives to say if I look and say what's app for example which is a free text message I mean they would look at the kind of usage of that within their subscriber base look at which kind of tariff groups would be taken that open which wouldn't be and may be competing against that by offering more free text to those type of tariff groups so they you know so they can with the in with the right information optimize their their business models so that they can compete more effectively with some of these new social medias and new changes in things there they're also at the same time as there's cannibalization to their revenue right there that's some cannibalization but there's also new opportunities for them in new revenue streams which many of them are looking at as well she talked about the the service providers that you talked to in the acquisition you did the due diligence you did the purchase then you got to do the integration just take us through what was that like I mean and the strategy and do people get brought in is it full integration do they get to work autonomously to get brought into the fold immediately what's the strategy how do you guys do your integrations well there's there's no one acquisition alike so they're all very different in this case it's not a playbook like EMC has a specific playbook they're like okay we'll bring them in will let them run it for a while see how thank you can some rope and see if they hang themselves and some do it on case by case you're saying yeah I mean we do we do have some area like back office is very structured right so we obviously fold accounting finance legal you know contracts all of that does get folded into kind of that the the broader IBM in the case of how we go to market the offerings that we create in some cases to your Europe earlier point you know it could be a tuck and fold where maybe you're just acquiring the technology I'm in this case we yes we have an industry team that focuses on telco and selling to the csps in an overall platform view but what really drew us to the now factory was you know their industry expertise the fact that the products that they are actually offering to their clients are software versus of Lee customized set of services right and therefore software was a synergy aspect absolutely i mean with software you can scale right so obviously software was a big drive the fact that they had a fully integrated stack that's what clients want they don't want to buy capabilities they want to they want to buy value and by use case and so that too i think was a big differentiator from the now factory and other and other vendors in this space tom how was the how was the process for you was it painful hey what can I see the back office integration that I've got some serious machinery back this you have I mean bridge is great great foundation I think they have a great machine it's big the monster and keep it small yeah but I mean the outcome you asked what the outcome was I mean the outcome is I mean we still as the nail Factory an IBM company I mean we still have revenue targets to make in margin targets to make so things haven't changed that much now we have a much bigger support obviously in reach into customers than we had before and then we also have the added benefit now have been able to use technology which has been developed by IBM over many years which is very scalable which gives us which means we can instead of build on that we can focus on the differentiating stuff which makes a real difference to their clients yes even more resources we can give them the depth and the breadth that big that it's hard to do first in alone it was a great big plantation called the world I am which is still an image reach and custom and it can be overkill by the way it works both way cuts both ways yeah well that's the balance of the M&A and you brought up that the interesting I always kind of joke about the back office but the IBM does some good acquisitions but the key is the leverage right so like the interesting people worry about acquisitions is you know the founders come in they get integrated into culture that's not there as they feel handcuffed and and so that's always a concern or four founders mean how do you feel what the hell you guys giving them enough room to be creative but yet all that leverage as at the philosophy so far that's how I say yeah that's what I've seen so far I mean one of the things that I feel lose culturally I think it wasn't as different as what I'm i may stop drinking it yeah yeah it seemed to be okay I'm enjoying workers so way it hasn't hasn't been a huge hasn't been a huge change absolutely i mean that was one of the things that for a small company they had such a defined culture and a set of practices that they followed and it's just so rare that you actually see that in a in a small company janeshia what's next for you the integration is done now what do you do with my next deal you stay with them I'm actually staying with them so the integration is not done so we closed last week closed a deal yes so we'll have 48 months and we'll obviously incorporate what we believe we should write and integrate again back office and then obviously continue to help them build out their offerings and you know even see it through your like project managing the kind of the keeping the ball moving yeah yeah so I will stay on it for at least a year if not to and you know ensure that again the now factory preserve what we what we obviously bought from a technology perspective but also integrate it with other big data products and that was the other great thing about them some companies you know there has there's a lot of kind of rewrite that has to be done but the technology was so compatible with our big data platform already so there's me a lot of natural synergies with that he's that big data platform was it most synergistic within your mind and it's pretty big yes well actually I mean if you think about the core you have netezza right or pure data for analytics and so there's there's a lot of great things that we think we're going to do there and then streams which is a InfoSphere streams which is a product that actually was built within IBM over the last 5 10 years there's great opportunity there to take that technology which really does mediation for telcos and incorporate it into their offering yes dreams is really relevant mean the tease is a track record speaks for itself but you look at real time you bring in streaming this kind of it's pretty interesting yeah I think that's a this great opportunities there I mean a lot of the value-add in this area's is been able to close the loop so were you where you see in where you see enough where you can make to somebody are to be able to do that in real time to give to I guess is the the now part of the now factory and to be able to to make it real so if you're walking past a shop which is enough for which you're interested in to be able to get a trigger straight away so there's a lot of great stuff I think that would be able to do with streams gone forward so I gotta ask you as an entrepreneur two questions one how's it feel to get bull you nervous to sell I mean was it like match made my IBM is a big machine battleship or eric i have to say i have to see from my purse i wasn't looking to sell it wasn't something that I was doing we set it up and you know we're gonna write so it wasn't I guess there is a lot of consolidation in the space were in at the moment and so it wasn't something we were looking to do if it was a different company that approaches I don't think we would have went down the same I think there's when I look at IBM and how it fits with where we wanted to go it was an obvious fish and I mean they're their strategy in in big days and insights and stuff like that it's very soon as i said the opportunity yeah so the next quote that's that good segue there my next question so startups are hungry you know Steve Jobs and stay hungry and you're always bootstrapping even hundred seventy people you're still you know fearful of oh my god I could run on money even though you probably loaded it's like okay always always bootstrapping you get to IBM it's like oh my god they have all these resources do you feel like if you know I'm just learning how are you eating more you go to the cafeteria for appetizer you guys hungry what ya mean what's your mindset now that you're in IBM I mean because you now have so much more at your disposal and so against it's an oasis III think it's AI think this great opportunities in terms of what we can we can invest in things now which we know would make a difference in the Americas that before we couldn't do resource watch ya resource why so we were always constrained by we would see opportunity and in the area work in this odds of opportunities no shortage of opportunities but often you just don't we didn't have the resources to go after those opportunities now I think with the resources we have it's very exciting the one thing actually that they had did differently that we observed is they really built their company around their technology so they built you they built use cases out and then build a sales team around that it doesn't always work that way so it's really kind of the perfect formula for us to come in give them the scale give them the sales resources the channel to to really drive that value to the client jeje how about the growth mobile growth I was leaving Smith's massive you got the entrepreneurs now other eyes get bigger because they have bigger opportunities I mean part of your job is kind of keep them reined in a little bit not overdrive red line there engine right so you gotta say we could meet if we can clone these guys mobile is growing so fast what are some of the numbers or can you share any anecdotal data around the mobile growth I mean the market you know if you look at kind of the segments and they cross a few different segments but the market is growing at at least fifteen percent within the you know customer care you know / analyst Mason so I think there's tremendous growth clearly we're going to take more than fifteen percent you know if all of the opportunities that we're seeing today you know come to fruition so I think I think it'll grow thin churn two more I Android devices are coming on board give hace iPhones crushing it you know that was it's it's funny because you know having just got into the space over the last you know six to nine months it's very dynamic that the telco industries it's um it's almost antiquated but also very advanced it's it's it's kind of it's all over the place and so that I think is is going to hopefully just you know take us places because of the value that we're going to be able to drive what's your forecast for the for the future in terms of not IBM but from your perspective getting in this deal getting in with the entrepreneurs who have been laying down great foundation knowing what you know at IBM what's the outlook for telcos in your mind what's the big sweeping change that most folks don't see out there that you might be able to share with them so I mean from a from an underlying perspective what you know the vision I think that even they have for themselves is to kind of get out of the siloed business right where they have kind of all of the different network assets and that they have to kind of pull together to actually get some sort of overarching view of the organization so I think you know being able to really sell them a platform across the entire enterprise to give them the insights that they're going to need to better manage their business Tom will give you the final word we've got run a break right here coming up for the folks of it to share them you know what to expect from you guys maybe talk to your your customers your future customers share with them kind of what's going to go on for you guys on your team inside IBM what's your what's your objective what are you going to do well first how many farty customers are all around the world in Europe US and asia and first thing is i mean there isn't going to be huge amount to change in terms of the value we deliver them and the one thing I can say is that in IBM now we're able to wake I mean one of the reasons our customers work with us is because we're innovative and we move very very fast with the industry I think now given the capability act we have with that in IBM we're able to even move faster with new propositions to our customers and to our new customers so I think within it's a very exciting time both for our customers annals at the moment I want the feedback we got from our customers who have been very very positive so far well congratulations on the acquisition it the ink is signed it's closed money's transferred all that stuff's happened now them now the hard work yeah absolutely right the entire dash against and for the folks that know what goes on it's really a lot of work and you got to get it right it's like a secret it's like a recipe to a you know it's nice sauce you want to make sure all the ingredients are in place for scale I'll see a hot mark congratulations so we're here live inside the cube exclusive coverage at IBM's information I've been this to cube right back

okay we're back here live at IBM information on demand this is the cube our flagship program would go out to the advanced extracted signal from the noise this is SiliconANGLE and booking bonds production exclusive coverage of information on demand we have a crowd chatting on right now go to crouch at net / IBM iod this is a chat web app mobile version coming so I saw the complaints earlier be part of the conversation to log in and share your opinion with us ask questions a lot of folks on there right now great engagements with all that all the comments go to the public timeline of LinkedIn or Twitter wherever you sign in on to the hashtag IBM iod we'll be watching that I'm John Furyk gentleman my coach Dave vellante and we have Marsha Connor on who's the principle of sense of I grew she's also an author and she writes about the topic welcome to the queue thank you glad to be here so what is social business I mean you know we love we love talking about social business but it's kind of like you had this term web 2.0 which is everyone argued about you had big data which everyone kind of argued about which actually Israel 30 it's a real market social business which is kind of an elusive term what the hell does it mean is that Twitter or Facebook is it social media consultants is the real value there since this is the kind of question that everyone's talking about and we're talking about so what's your take on that >> my take is very simple for way too many years decades when people go to work they have to leave their personality their heart their cares their relationships in the car or in the subway or however they got to work that day and social business is really the first opportunity we have to be human beings at work we're allowed to actually talk about the things we care about to be able to bring our interests and our passions into the conversation to be real trustworthy people and what happens as a result of that is that for the first time ever there is an acceleration in the workplace because people can actually be their full selves it seems so simple only because the the backlash or the way that we have worked for so long has been so strong and so overpowering that we almost equates not being human with what business is so the idea of social and business being together it seems a little off we assume that business is human is inhuman but the idea of bringing them together is a huge step in the right direction and it opens up the possibility of actually doing great things >> there should be some anti social >> Jeff chick just say we maybe software in commenting about it's almost too social right now people need to kind of bring that personality to work so it's very interesting day what's your take on this I mean you're an analyst you look at the market is social business really mean what's your take on that yeah I think it slowly rabbids to me it's just it's second nature right i mean i remember the conversations not that long ago it's probably 2006-2007 what's the ROI on social media and do we really want to apply it to business and then so what happened was people just did it right and when they did it they said this surely works and we're getting productivity gains and people are happier and it's just a sort of a natural progression of what we're doing in our everyday lives so I just think to me the real opportunity is now okay what's the future what can you do with all this data were collecting and how can you actually affect you know changes within organizations and feedback to people and power them in different ways so that's kind of you know what I think about it I mean does that make sense to you >> it does actually I take the almost opposite view though it's not that they're in fighting with one another but the idea is that we need to figure out what we need to remove not add so it's not that we have all this new data and we can actually be doing more stuff but the question becomes for me and their organizations that I work with this what can we remove what are the policies that the nonsense that happens in work every single day that shouldn't be there is only there because we don't have a better way a more trustworthy more human way of actually working together so it's incredibly liberating or incredibly open from our perspective simply because it's it's less >> processes you haven't evolved to adopt >> so you're saying the business ooh the permeation of social networking within organizations that's not true for >> all organizations right i mean when >> they're starting with a green field the >> business processes are very social right >> about 70 people though and all of a sudden somebody says we need an HR department we need that the number was 50 >> 70 actually well especially for organizations that have aspirations of growing very very large and they get to this point where they believe that they have to put these things in place because there's this expectation that business means heavy process organized codified and I'm not saying that there aren't some benefits of actually having some order amid the chaos there's absolutely benefit there but we need to be thinking about what is needed at human scale versus what is the building or the organization itself need to be maintained to keep going >> saying if they take a small startup that >> so you're very social they've got social tools in place as they grow your day they muck it up just that what you see >> that is what I'm saying one of my clients a number of years ago I pulled me well actually I overheard this and then I had a conversation with him off line he pulled me aside who said you know what you really do is you make work not suck and he said it so candidly and it's a leader in a very large corporation I thought to myself wait a minute I had never really thought about it that way but for the large part that's people in the organization's feel like the amount of time that each of us spend on actually just maintaining the organization it's time that we could be using for far better things and so if we can start moving away from that maintaining of the organizational rigor we can actually start using that in those ingenious skills back to what we're doing >> example i was using about the use of the >> so the startup of the green sheet of paper the better example is the big company that you're sort of overlaying these social processes on top of how are you helping them sort of break the old habits maybe >> talk about what they should be doing >> yeah well the most specific thing I do is I very rigorously scalpel like actually organizations tell me of going in and identify one of the things keeping people from being able to do work that they were hired to do when's the last time you hired an idiot when I >> asked that question >> question we were just talking about I >> I won't answer that >> I ask that question actually very often is sometimes actually just speaking to a very large group and somebody always gonna raise their hand there's time the story and that's a little uncomfortable at times but the reality is we hire the best and brightest people that we know we try to find great people but something happens about two and a half weeks in all of a sudden they just get stupid right all of a sudden they can't do whatever it is >> very social they don't blame yourselves someone else I didn't I didn't improve that guy but let's not over though but some finish the story here because you're basically saying we inject stupidity into the system it's generally >> Yes we inject the stupidity in but we put them in cages in large part we ask people to say leave a large part of who they are what they're capable of doing somewhere else and so what happens is the longer you work for an organization the more likely you are to be incredibly invested in your community you either work at the Boy Scouts or or you you know you lead a program inside of your community to do better food services a well we have we find consistently is the more you feel like you've been stuffed into a desk drawer the more likely you are to still bring those capabilities to some other part of your life that's just ridiculous don't get me wrong I'm a big fan of people doing great things in our communities but it's really sad to me to understand that we can't bring those same capabilities that same ingenuity into the workplace where people were hired to actually share those gifts >> okay so so but so you go with the scalpel okay oh let me tell you a policy manual how do you not cut to the bone sami do you absolutely there are you not cut into muscle well such an example yeah that would help us I'd say most organizations have no idea where that muscle on that bone is it i mean that's actually a great question so so it at a more abstract level let me just say that there's i have been handed paper-based read notebooks from some of the world's largest organizations where you are going page by page by page of the policies the procedures and sometimes those are handed out in the new employee orientation other times that they're just assumed where people have to actually to start learning from you know social learning from the people around them as to what's the appropriate thing or what's an inappropriate thing to be doing and if you start actually looking at those you discover time and again that those policies those guidelines this what is establishing the culture are largely based on one person doing something really stupid and that person probably especially given a social business world probably wouldn't have done it a second time in this new environment but in this particular case they did that and all of a sudden we had to actually like in a community after a wreck now a stop sign are you had to you know put up a light because you hate had the lawyers be involved in this there's an incredibly yeah covering your ass you're overreacting simply because we haven't had better processes in the past one of the things we know for example of social tools is that when somebody says something stupid their co-workers almost always rise up and say that's not right anymore that's incorrect or here's a better way to do it the only thing worse than people saying dumb things work is people believing dumb things work and with these tools we all of a sudden have the opportunity to correct those things where people do smart things again so from a scalpel like perspective it's looking at what are the underpinnings of our work what are the things that are controlling how we work not only just the processes but the behaviors that are there and to actually look through them systematically and to remove everything that's there then the next step is really talking with people and being able to prove to them that when they work in different sorts of ways that they will be treated in different sorts of ways and frankly that becomes a harder exercise the larger the corporation >> chat from grant case how does an >> so question from our crowd organization start that journey especially in a firm like financial services where that might already be part of the culture >> is always part of the culture you advances in financial services I work with a very large business the business ensure for example and what we found is that when they start introducing social tools into the workplace they weren't so worried that people are going to say dumb things they were more worried that their employees were like cats under the stairs that nobody would say anything because they were so terrified of what would happen as a result of them saying that and so we had to do is are introducing into the culture of that organization processes that would say we care about what you think we had a woman for example say that when we went to her and we've been told that she would not participate in something like this when we went to her she said you know I've been putting in my desk drawers literally for over 20 years all the cool things I've wanted to do in this organization and you're telling me i can now blog about those things or i can actually put them in a micro and and we said yes and says well i really don't believe you so it wasn't even mad saying we can do it but well I get in trouble you know I get in trouble and I not even get troubled by the big police but just well I get you know looks from my peers and so we actually started giving her examples of some of her peers and some of her colleagues who were doing different sorts of things in her being able to build trust that this was a workable system >> does crowdsourcing just Twitter does a success of Facebook and LinkedIn the social networks nicely the rise of the hashtag which has become a great waited for people to dial into folksonomies of groups or active conversations does that change and give people more of a it removed some dissidents if you will about okay it's okay to be public does that change the game a little bit on social software is it validated or just a scare people further into the into their caves we see on crowd chatter there's more anonymous viewers that happy boo actually sign in it has become kind of like an arena we mentioned sometimes it's like gladiator the thought leaders battling it out for you know we seen this on forums right higher see chat rooms you know so people just want to watch yeah >> so what you're what you've done though is reduce this down to one personality type and the reality is that we have have extroverts and introverts in our workplace we have people who are comfortable talking in public and those who aren't and so the simple introduction of online tools brings to our workplaces a way for people who are uncomfortable sharing to do that with a little bit more anonymity and to have a lot more comfort and being able to do that they may not want actually look people in the eye when they say these things but it doesn't mean they don't have valuable things to say I was asked by a journalist a number of years ago if I believe that the introduction of social tools would all of a sudden mean the end of meetings in the workplace and I said absolutely not but what you're now going to hear is the voice of people who never spoke up at meetings and to actually have a well-rounded workforce you need to have the voice of all those brilliant people you hired >> wait a moment yes I think I said all the forecast for cars was limited because they didn't people think enough chauffeurs to drive them you know nobody will buy them still is gonna bite it's a big barrier small market it's not enough show first is a wreck yeah >> but if we can actually provide a venue for everybody to be able to contribute at work one that's either in person or online we're just opening up the possibility of who could >> okay so what's the craziest thing you've seen both on two spectrums with social business successful crazy and crazy good meaning kind of like Anna Steve Jobs craziness way to a crazy fail you have to name names he just can talk about the use cases I mean by that or you can talk about the names if you want to the appoint people out crazy good wow they really levered all the aspects of the data they they were innovative just or lucky or two they put a lot of money into it and it could failed miserably yeah okay I think I can come up with two I'm not so sure and the crazy like in woohoo were in Vegas kind of crazy example though give me a few minutes wrapping up with that one okay though I will say that in a large financial services organization that the Vice President of Human Resources i actually have photos of her going around to every single cube on her floor and taking person and taking photos of each employee for their personal profiles because people are so terrified of actually even doing taking that step that she walked around the floor of her building and took pictures of every single person and that may not see a saying some crazy in Las Vegas sense but it was pretty radical for her to be doing that but it showed her commitment to be able to do this so let me give you a different example electronics firm we're going through I'm so a large global not going to name names but you can probably actually make some guesses we're going through some horrible financial problems and it was just a right around the time they introduced social business tools into their workforce and when they did that the the pretty much the person who is supporting that initiative would send out emails to move people toward working in a social way at he would send out emails that would be fairly scandalous actually and they would say things like it's about to get on the press that we were about to lose dot dot dot at all his email would say and then there was a link that they had to actually go into the social system to be able to learn the rest of the things he not only had a blast actually eliminating the whole lot of link faded the entire over a hundred thousand personal work for that's good pageviews assassin twitter / ma been going on to in a matter of days they had pretty much converted the entire organization to be using these tools and as a result of that they believe that they actually didn't have all the problems they would have had had they not done this because for the first time ever people weren't just sitting behind their desks and being terrified for their lives going back to your crowdsource point they were there together and they actually could talk about what's going on they created what we call rumor central which is a practice that I bring into many organizations they actually had a group within the organization that anybody could ask anything they could actually ask the question what is the rumor you know they could say here's the rumor I've heard how accurate is it and then somebody in the organization would actually be there to answer that and be able to correct that and be able to fix that and it was a beautiful example of how that works >> from the crowd chat along the line of >> we had a question coming question we just had to run the people extroverts and introverts so the question is what is the value of a lurker in social business is there one well if it's a person kind of hanging around question was that that's a great question oh yeah >> I thought you're muttering under your breath like a lurker okay the problem with workers he said she's yelling in the cheap seats what we know about lurkers is that traditionally they are people who wouldn't raise their voice in a meeting that they are also somebody who is just going to you know sit and listen but what happens is it that person then goes to the restroom or goes to the cafeteria or actually even on the bus that night or in their community and they talk about what they've learned so the idea of measuring people as lurkers or participants is a very shallow way of looking at it because it only means that the value is in the conversation of their having at that time or that they didn't comment or they didn't contribute that that is what provides value it's a skewed perspective on engagement it's a cute perspective of what brings value to the organization if they can be listening which is a truly an untapped skill and most of our workforces that they can be listening and then they can actually be thinking also a crazy idea and actually then be able to figure out what they are doing and then be able to do that all the value there but I'm I actually am a little bit weary sometimes when I see the people who are commenting all the time >> it's like lurker so in social context if you can see the participation if someone's just just online with an online button you don't even know if they're listening right so I think that's I think that's the key point if they're listening and they're active that's an interesting data point so like one things that Dave and I look at and lurkers is are they in context to the conversation and are they active so getting that active data is interesting in context to what's being measured so if we look at a cluster of a crowd like a crowdsource crouched at hey if someone's actively talking they're in in the in context >> I still think that's an extroverted way of looking at it I still think it's a way of saying that that engagement is only by hearing or seeing their voice so let me give you the example so I work with a large an organization the intelligence community I'll leave it at that and one of the things that they track is where people actually look online and as a result of that they're actually able to follow the thread from the first thing that they looked at what do they look at next and they have and are able to establish breadcrumbs as to what someone looked at first and then what they looked at next and then what they did after that and what happened is along that whole continuum somebody eventually at some point in time will do sort of the equivalent of a like or they'll add a comment somewhere along that path but then if you go in and you were looking at that first document and you then get to see sort of like amazon recommends other books you can then say other people who looked at this document looked at these things next now that first person may have not commented for a very long time if ever but the value to the other people in that organization by understanding the other amazing and wonderful and helpful or not helpful things they saw afterwards brought incredible value to the organization and that was a a passive way of actually sharing and helping and narrowing down and helping people make better decisions but it was by no means the level of active engagements that so often we are looking at as the only measure of value in the organization Marcia we got cut on time here our next guest but amazing conversation folks go see her blog guys awesome thanks for the comment we'd go another hour okay but they'll give you the final word what is just share with the folks out there your view of the future next couple years what's going to come around the corner connect the dots what do you see happening is going to be an implosion the kind of Biggs is going to be more growth what's going to happen what do you think is going to how is this industry industry how is social business going to shape up >> well I'm if we're talking about the next few years I think that we are all in for a big wake-up call not only are we starting to see the structures and the systems around us failing from my government and economy all sorts of different ways a perspective but if we look at epochs of history this happens consistently and we're about the end of this particular epoch and I say that not as a doom and gloom er at all but to say that I believe for the first time we have the tools and technologies to be able to do something significant to be actually be able to rewrite how organizations work what work means how human beings get to interact to be able to make change in the world that has been cordoned off for way too long and so as these systems the systems that aren't workings are falling away we have the opportunity to actually be able to lean in to be able to live in and to be able to say I want to be a human being 24 hours a day I don't want to be a number or a chess pawn any longer and i am going to actually make a difference in the work i do and i'm going to do that throughout my day every day so i'm i'm incredibly excited about the prospect of what we can do it requires us all to actually look inside figure out who we are figure out what we want to do and actually be able to go do that social destruction of old with new new >> humanization of the crowd and waves of innovations we always say tave you don't get out in front of you become driftwood and there will be some destruction in business models we love it this is social business this is the cube exclusive coverage from information on demand ibm's conference here in Las Vegas is the cube we write back with our next guest right thank you the cube

okay we're back here live ending up day one of IBM's information on demand exclusive coverage for SiliconANGLE and Wikibon and constellation research breaking down the day one analysis I'm John furrier and join my co-host E on the cube Dave vellante of course as usual and for this closing wrap up segment of day one we have analyst and founder of constellation research ray Wang former analyst big data guru software heading up the partner pavilion kicking off all the flying around the world your own event this month past month things going great how are you how are you doing we're going to great man there's a lot of energy in q3 q4 we've been watching people look at trying to spend down their budgets and I think people are just like worried that there's going to be nothing in 2014 right so they're just bending down we're seeing these big orders like tonight I've got to fly out to New York to close out a deal and help someone else that's basically it was a big day to deal that's going down this is how crazy it's going on and so it's been like this pretty much like for the last four or five weeks so flows budget flush I just wash this budget lunchtime what are you seeing for the deals out there give us some of the examples of some of the sizes and magnitude is it you know you know how are you up and run to get get some cash into secure what size scopes are you seeing up yeah i mean what we're seeing I mean it's anything from a quarter million into like five million dollar deals some of our platform we sing at all levels the one that's really hot we were talking about this that the tableau conference was the date of is right dative is is still really really hot but on the back end we're saying data quality pop-up we're seeing the integration piece play a role we also saw a little bit of content management but not the traditional content management that's coming in more about the text mining text analytics to kind of drive that I mean I'm not sure what are you guys seeing alone yeah so what we're seeing a lot of energy I've seen the budget flush we're not involved in the deals like you are Dave is but for me what I'm seeing is IT the cloud is being accepted I'll you know those has not talked about publicly is kind of a public secret is amazon is just destroying the value proposition of many folks out there with cloud they're just winning the developers hand over fist and you know i'm not sure pivotal with cloud family even catch up even OpenStack has really got some consume energy around we're following that so it opens stack yet amazon on the public cloud winning everything no money's pouring into the enterprise saying hey we got to build the infrastructure under the hood so you can't have the application edge if you don't have the engine so the 100 x price advantage and that's really a scary thing but I think softlayer gives IBM a shot here yeah we were talking about self leyva so you are seeing more I'm seeing it aight aight figure deals and big data right and it's starting to get up there so softly I'd love to get your take on soft layers we've been having a debate all day Oh softlayer jaws mckenna what do you what's your take you're saying it's a hosting I've been a look at first of all yeah I love putting a huge gap 9 million dollars per lock event data center hosting now if that's a footprint they can shave that and kind of give their customers some comfort I think that's the way i see it i mean just I haven't gone inside the numbers to see where it's going to be where this energy is but like we're software virtualization is going on where everyone's going on with virtualization the data center I'll give them a cloud play I just don't see ya didn't have one before I mean happy cloud I mean whistling private club Wow is their software involved I think it provides them with an option to actually deliver cloud services with a compression ratio on storage and a speed that they need to do to deliver mobile mobile data analytics right there's things that are there that are required so it gives them an option to be playing the cloud well I just saw I mean in the news coverage and the small inspection that we did I did was I just didn't reek of software innovation it's simply a data center large hosting big on you agree they didn't really have a northern wobblin driving him before this was brilliant on your Sun setting their previous all these chairs deal kind of musical chairs me for the music stops get something it was that kind of the deal no I think they are feel more like customers asking for something and they wanted IBM to have it yeah IBM works it's an irr play for IBM they're gonna make money on this team not a tuck under deal 900 million no I know but they'll make money on it that's IBM almost always does with it I'll leave it up to you guys to rip on I was your conference oh thanks hey constellation connecting enterprise was awesome we were at the half moon bay Ritz we had 220 folks that were there senior level individuals one of the shocking things for me was the fact that when we pulled the audience on day one two things happen that I would never imagine first thing as ninety percent of the folks downloaded our mobile app which was like awesome right so the network was with them the knowledge is with them when they leave the event and all the relationships the second thing that really shocked me we knew we had really good ratios but it was seventy-five percent of the audience that was line of business execs and twenty-five percent IT it was like we were we didn't have to preach to the choir it was amazing and the IT folks that were they were very very innovative on that end so it was awesome in that way so a lot like the mix the mix here is much more line of business execs the last week at hadoop world loose you know the t-shirt crowd right a lot of practitioners you know scoop I've flume hey we got the earth animals ever right oh but no this event is actually interesting IBM iod for me is like I didn't realize this when I didn't I looked at numbers when we're doing a partner event yesterday and there are thirteen thousand attendees here that actually makes that the biggest big data and analytics conference bigger than strata bigger than a whole bunch of other ones and so I mean this is pretty much the Nexus of what about open world big data over there but this is a big opera you see world any world cloud big data yeah hey the between no but so IBM's done a fantastic job of really transitioning this conference from sort of an eclectic swix db2 informix right I'm management routine fest right yeah and now it's like what are the business things I mean what are we trying to save around the world are they telling the story effectively it's a hard story to tell you got big data analytics cloud mobile in the middle and you got social business but then you got all this use case they have success stories if customers that creating business outcomes they telling the story effectively is it not enough speeds and fees is it too what's your take the stories are there we've seen like 122 case studies from the business partner side we just haven't seen them percolate out and I think they've got to do a better job evangelizing stories but what's interesting is like there's that remember we talked about this data to decision level there's that data level that was IBM right here's the database here's the structure here's the content management here's the unstructured stuff this is where it sets then there was that information management level which that they started to do which is really about cleaning the data connecting that data connecting to upstream and downstream systems getting into CRM and payroll and then they got to this level about insights which was all the Cognos stuff right so they've been building up the stat from data decisions so they got data information information to insight and then we're getting to this decision-making level which they haven't made a lot of the assets or acquisitions there but that's the predictive analytics that's the cognitive computing you can see how they're wrapping around there I mean there's a lot of vendors to buy there's a lot of opportunity out there's a lot to connect and they've been working on it for a while but I guess I got to ask you how they doing what's your report card from last year this year better better storytelling better messaging I think the stories are getting better but we're seeing them in more deals now right before we'd see a lot more SI p traditional SI p oracle you know kind of competes and a little bit of IBM Cognos now we're seeing them in a lot of end-to-end deals and what we're talking about it's not like I T deals these are line of business folks that say look I really need to change my shopping experience what do you guys have we see other things like you know the fraud examples that any was talking about those are hilarious I mean those are real I see em in every place right I mean even with Obamacare right there's gonna be massive amounts of fraud there any places that people going to want to go in and figure out how to connect or correct those kind of things yeah so so seeing the use cases emerge yeah and in particular me last week in a dupe world it was financial services you're talking risk you talk a marketing you're talking fraud protection to forecasting yep the big three and then underneath that is predicted predictive analytics so you know that's all sort of interesting what's your take on on Amazon these days you know they are crushing it on so many different unbelievable right on more billion this year maybe it's when you build a whole company which is basically on the premise of hey let's get people to offset our cost structure from November 15th to january first I mean it's pretty amazing what you can do it's like everyone's covering for it and even more funny it's like they're doing in the physical world with distribution centers I know if we talked about this before but what's really interesting is they've got last mile delivery UPS FedEx DHL can't cat can't handle their capacity so now the ability from digital to physical goods they've got that and beezus goes out and buys the post so he can make the post for example a national paper overnight again he can do home delivery things that they couldn't do before they can take digital ads bring that back in and so basically what they're doing on the cloud side they're also doing on the physical distribution side amazing isn't it they're almost the pushing towards sunday delivery right US Postal Service go into five day deliveries sort of the different directions amazon I'm Amazon's going to be the postal service by the time they're done we're all going to subsidize it so so I gotta get you take on the the Oracle early statement Larry Ellison said were the iphone for the data center that's his metaphor a couple of couple or global enrolls ago now you got open stack and though we kind of laugh at that but but amazon is like the iPhone you know it's disruptive its new its emerging like Apple was reading out of the ashes with Steve Jobs Oracle I think trying to shoehorn in an iphone positioning but if OpenStack if everyone's open and you got amazon here there is a plausible strategy scenario that says hey these guys can continue to to put the naysayers at the side of the road as they march forward to the enterprise and be the iphone they've turned the data center into an API so so we got the date as their lock in right so this sim lock in Apple has lock in so is that lock in what's your take of that scenario you think it's video in the open ecosystem world they're all false open because a walk-in also applies but but you've been even to this for a long time right and probably one of the things that you're seeing is that it's not about open versus closed it's about ubiquity right Microsoft was a closed evil empire back ten years ago now it's like oh the standard right it's like ok they're harmless Google was like open and now they're the evil empire right it just depends on the perception and the really is ubiquity Amazon's got ubiquity on it so i did is pushing their winning the developers the winning the developers they got the ecosystem they got ubiquity they've got a cost structure I mean I don't know what else could go wrong I think they could get s la's maybe and once that had I don't know what is Amazon's blind spot I mean s la's I think well a lumpy performance no one wants lumpy right they want the big Dayton who's got ever who's got better public as public cloud SL is denied well I think about what he just said us everybody no but here's think that's a public road statement not an amazon said let's crunch big data computation December fifteenth you tell me what this is all I want to know well I think I think an easy move is I mean this day you've got to do that on premise I just I just don't I just don't think that people are forecasting amazon the enterprise properly and you just set out the Washington Post that is a left-field move we can now look back and say okay I said makes sense amazon can continue to commoditize and disrupt and be innovative then shift and having some sort of on prem playing oh then it's over right then and then gets the stir days surrounded the castle but they really don't have a great arm tremblay have no on print but they could they could get one good I think they want to see well think they want to but I think with them what they figured out was let's go build some cool public service get everyone else to subsidize our main offerings right it's basically ultimate shared service everyone's subsidizing Amazon's destruction of their business right so if you're Macy is why the heck are you on amazon right you know if you're competing with them why the heck are you on Amazon you're basically digging your own grave I'm paying them to do it it's amazing I mean that's that's the brilliance of this goes invade they brag about it yeah digging your own brave like it's a you know put the compute power is great okay great but you're subsidizing Amazon's for the you know compute power so r a great shot great to have you here congratulations on your event constellation research awesome successful venues ahead last month top folks in you're doing a great job with your company and the end the day out today in the last word tell the folks what's happening with IBM what do you expect to hear from them tomorrow I know you're going to be another thing you had to fly to but what does IBM what's a trajectory coming out of the show for IBM what's your analysis I think the executives have figured out that the important audience here is really the line of business leaders and to figure out how to do couple things one democratize decision-making the second thing figure out how they can actually make it easy to consume IBM at different entry points and I think the third thing is really how can we focus on improving data visualization graphics I think you'll see something about that ray Wang on the cube cube alumni tech athlete entrepreneur new for his new firm not new anymore it's a couple years on his belt doing a great job but three years old congratulations we'll be back day two tomorrow stay with us here exclusive coverage of IBM information I'm John prairie with Dave vellante this is the cube will see you tomorrow the queue