(upbeat music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome to theCUBE. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE in Palo Alto, California. Also it's SiliconANGLE News. Got two great guests here to talk about AI, the impact of the future of the internet, the applications, the people. Amr Awadallah, the founder and CEO, Ed Alban is the CEO of Vectara, a new startup that emerged out of the original Cloudera, I would say, 'cause Amr's known, famous for the Cloudera founding, which was really the beginning of the big data movement. And now as AI goes mainstream, there's so much to talk about, so much to go on. And plus the new company is one of the, now what I call the wave, this next big wave, I call it the fifth wave in the industry. You know, you had PCs, you had the internet, you had mobile. This generative AI thing is real. And you're starting to see startups come out in droves. Amr obviously was founder of Cloudera, Big Data, and now Vectara. And Ed Albanese, you guys have a new company. Welcome to the show. >> Thank you. It's great to be here. >> So great to see you. Now the story is theCUBE started in the Cloudera office. Thanks to you, and your friendly entrepreneurship views that you have. We got to know each other over the years. But Cloudera had Hadoop, which was the beginning of what I call the big data wave, which then became what we now call data lakes, data oceans, and data infrastructure that's developed from that. It's almost interesting to look back 12 plus years, and see that what AI is doing now, right now, is opening up the eyes to the mainstream, and the application's almost mind blowing. You know, Sati Natel called it the Mosaic Moment, didn't say Netscape, he built Netscape (laughing) but called it the Mosaic Moment. You're seeing companies in startups, kind of the alpha geeks running here, because this is the new frontier, and there's real meat on the bone, in terms of like things to do. Why? Why is this happening now? What's is the confluence of the forces happening, that are making this happen? >> Yeah, I mean if you go back to the Cloudera days, with big data, and so on, that was more about data processing. Like how can we process data, so we can extract numbers from it, and do reporting, and maybe take some actions, like this is a fraud transaction, or this is not. And in the meanwhile, many of the researchers working in the neural network, and deep neural network space, were trying to focus on data understanding, like how can I understand the data, and learn from it, so I can take actual actions, based on the data directly, just like a human does. And we were only good at doing that at the level of somebody who was five years old, or seven years old, all the way until about 2013. And starting in 2013, which is only 10 years ago, a number of key innovations started taking place, and each one added on. It was no major innovation that just took place. It was a couple of really incremental ones, but they added on top of each other, in a very exponentially additive way, that led to, by the end of 2019, we now have models, deep neural network models, that can read and understand human text just like we do. Right? And they can reason about it, and argue with you, and explain it to you. And I think that's what is unlocking this whole new wave of innovation that we're seeing right now. So data understanding would be the essence of it. >> So it's not a Big Bang kind of theory, it's been evolving over time, and I think that the tipping point has been the advancements and other things. I mean look at cloud computing, and look how fast it just crept up on AWS. I mean AWS you back three, five years ago, I was talking to Swami yesterday, and their big news about AI, expanding the Hugging Face's relationship with AWS. And just three, five years ago, there wasn't a model training models out there. But as compute comes out, and you got more horsepower,, these large language models, these foundational models, they're flexible, they're not monolithic silos, they're interacting. There's a whole new, almost fusion of data happening. Do you see that? I mean is that part of this? >> Of course, of course. I mean this wave is building on all the previous waves. We wouldn't be at this point if we did not have hardware that can scale, in a very efficient way. We wouldn't be at this point, if we don't have data that we're collecting about everything we do, that we're able to process in this way. So this, this movement, this motion, this phase we're in, absolutely builds on the shoulders of all the previous phases. For some of the observers from the outside, when they see chatGPT for the first time, for them was like, "Oh my god, this just happened overnight." Like it didn't happen overnight. (laughing) GPT itself, like GPT3, which is what chatGPT is based on, was released a year ahead of chatGPT, and many of us were seeing the power it can provide, and what it can do. I don't know if Ed agrees with that. >> Yeah, Ed? >> I do. Although I would acknowledge that the possibilities now, because of what we've hit from a maturity standpoint, have just opened up in an incredible way, that just wasn't tenable even three years ago. And that's what makes it, it's true that it developed incrementally, in the same way that, you know, the possibilities of a mobile handheld device, you know, in 2006 were there, but when the iPhone came out, the possibilities just exploded. And that's the moment we're in. >> Well, I've had many conversations over the past couple months around this area with chatGPT. John Markoff told me the other day, that he calls it, "The five dollar toy," because it's not that big of a deal, in context to what AI's doing behind the scenes, and all the work that's done on ethics, that's happened over the years, but it has woken up the mainstream, so everyone immediately jumps to ethics. "Does it work? "It's not factual," And everyone who's inside the industry is like, "This is amazing." 'Cause you have two schools of thought there. One's like, people that think this is now the beginning of next gen, this is now we're here, this ain't your grandfather's chatbot, okay?" With NLP, it's got reasoning, it's got other things. >> I'm in that camp for sure. >> Yeah. Well I mean, everyone who knows what's going on is in that camp. And as the naysayers start to get through this, and they go, "Wow, it's not just plagiarizing homework, "it's helping me be better. "Like it could rewrite my memo, "bring the lead to the top." It's so the format of the user interface is interesting, but it's still a data-driven app. >> Absolutely. >> So where does it go from here? 'Cause I'm not even calling this the first ending. This is like pregame, in my opinion. What do you guys see this going, in terms of scratching the surface to what happens next? >> I mean, I'll start with, I just don't see how an application is going to look the same in the next three years. Who's going to want to input data manually, in a form field? Who is going to want, or expect, to have to put in some text in a search box, and then read through 15 different possibilities, and try to figure out which one of them actually most closely resembles the question they asked? You know, I don't see that happening. Who's going to start with an absolute blank sheet of paper, and expect no help? That is not how an application will work in the next three years, and it's going to fundamentally change how people interact and spend time with opening any element on their mobile phone, or on their computer, to get something done. >> Yes. I agree with that. Like every single application, over the next five years, will be rewritten, to fit within this model. So imagine an HR application, I don't want to name companies, but imagine an HR application, and you go into application and you clicking on buttons, because you want to take two weeks of vacation, and menus, and clicking here and there, reasons and managers, versus just telling the system, "I'm taking two weeks of vacation, going to Las Vegas," book it, done. >> Yeah. >> And the system just does it for you. If you weren't completing in your input, in your description, for what you want, then the system asks you back, "Did you mean this? "Did you mean that? "Were you trying to also do this as well?" >> Yeah. >> "What was the reason?" And that will fit it for you, and just do it for you. So I think the user interface that we have with apps, is going to change to be very similar to the user interface that we have with each other. And that's why all these apps will need to evolve. >> I know we don't have a lot of time, 'cause you guys are very busy, but I want to definitely have multiple segments with you guys, on this topic, because there's so much to talk about. There's a lot of parallels going on here. I was talking again with Swami who runs all the AI database at AWS, and I asked him, I go, "This feels a lot like the original AWS. "You don't have to provision a data center." A lot of this heavy lifting on the back end, is these large language models, with these foundational models. So the bottleneck in the past, was the energy, and cost to actually do it. Now you're seeing it being stood up faster. So there's definitely going to be a tsunami of apps. I would see that clearly. What is it? We don't know yet. But also people who are going to leverage the fact that I can get started building value. So I see a startup boom coming, and I see an application tsunami of refactoring things. >> Yes. >> So the replatforming is already kind of happening. >> Yes, >> OpenAI, chatGPT, whatever. So that's going to be a developer environment. I mean if Amazon turns this into an API, or a Microsoft, what you guys are doing. >> We're turning it into API as well. That's part of what we're doing as well, yes. >> This is why this is exciting. Amr, you've lived the big data dream, and and we used to talk, if you didn't have a big data problem, if you weren't full of data, you weren't really getting it. Now people have all the data, and they got to stand this up. >> Yeah. >> So the analogy is again, the mobile, I like the mobile movement, and using mobile as an analogy, most companies were not building for a mobile environment, right? They were just building for the web, and legacy way of doing apps. And as soon as the user expectations shifted, that my expectation now, I need to be able to do my job on this small screen, on the mobile device with a touchscreen. Everybody had to invest in re-architecting, and re-implementing every single app, to fit within that model, and that model of interaction. And we are seeing the exact same thing happen now. And one of the core things we're focused on at Vectara, is how to simplify that for organizations, because a lot of them are overwhelmed by large language models, and ML. >> They don't have the staff. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're understaffed, they don't have the skills. >> But they got developers, they've got DevOps, right? >> Yes. >> So they have the DevSecOps going on. >> Exactly, yes. >> So our goal is to simplify it enough for them that they can start leveraging this technology effectively, within their applications. >> Ed, you're the COO of the company, obviously a startup. You guys are growing. You got great backup, and good team. You've also done a lot of business development, and technical business development in this area. If you look at the landscape right now, and I agree the apps are coming, every company I talk to, that has that jet chatGPT of, you know, epiphany, "Oh my God, look how cool this is. "Like magic." Like okay, it's code, settle down. >> Mm hmm. >> But everyone I talk to is using it in a very horizontal way. I talk to a very senior person, very tech alpha geek, very senior person in the industry, technically. they're using it for log data, they're using it for configuration of routers. And in other areas, they're using it for, every vertical has a use case. So this is horizontally scalable from a use case standpoint. When you hear horizontally scalable, first thing I chose in my mind is cloud, right? >> Mm hmm. >> So cloud, and scalability that way. And the data is very specialized. So now you have this vertical specialization, horizontally scalable, everyone will be refactoring. What do you see, and what are you seeing from customers, that you talk to, and prospects? >> Yeah, I mean put yourself in the shoes of an application developer, who is actually trying to make their application a bit more like magic. And to have that soon-to-be, honestly, expected experience. They've got to think about things like performance, and how efficiently that they can actually execute a query, or a question. They've got to think about cost. Generative isn't cheap, like the inference of it. And so you've got to be thoughtful about how and when you take advantage of it, you can't use it as a, you know, everything looks like a nail, and I've got a hammer, and I'm going to hit everything with it, because that will be wasteful. Developers also need to think about how they're going to take advantage of, but not lose their own data. So there has to be some controls around what they feed into the large language model, if anything. Like, should they fine tune a large language model with their own data? Can they keep it logically separated, but still take advantage of the powers of a large language model? And they've also got to take advantage, and be aware of the fact that when data is generated, that it is a different class of data. It might not fully be their own. >> Yeah. >> And it may not even be fully verified. And so when the logical cycle starts, of someone making a request, the relationship between that request, and the output, those things have to be stored safely, logically, and identified as such. >> Yeah. >> And taken advantage of in an ongoing fashion. So these are mega problems, each one of them independently, that, you know, you can think of it as middleware companies need to take advantage of, and think about, to help the next wave of application development be logical, sensible, and effective. It's not just calling some raw API on the cloud, like openAI, and then just, you know, you get your answer and you're done, because that is a very brute force approach. >> Well also I will point, first of all, I agree with your statement about the apps experience, that's going to be expected, form filling. Great point. The interesting about chatGPT. >> Sorry, it's not just form filling, it's any action you would like to take. >> Yeah. >> Instead of clicking, and dragging, and dropping, and doing it on a menu, or on a touch screen, you just say it, and it's and it happens perfectly. >> Yeah. It's a different interface. And that's why I love that UIUX experiences, that's the people falling out of their chair moment with chatGPT, right? But a lot of the things with chatGPT, if you feed it right, it works great. If you feed it wrong and it goes off the rails, it goes off the rails big. >> Yes, yes. >> So the the Bing catastrophes. >> Yeah. >> And that's an example of garbage in, garbage out, classic old school kind of comp-side phrase that we all use. >> Yep. >> Yes. >> This is about data in injection, right? It reminds me the old SQL days, if you had to, if you can sling some SQL, you were a magician, you know, to get the right answer, it's pretty much there. So you got to feed the AI. >> You do, Some people call this, the early word to describe this as prompt engineering. You know, old school, you know, search, or, you know, engagement with data would be, I'm going to, I have a question or I have a query. New school is, I have, I have to issue it a prompt, because I'm trying to get, you know, an action or a reaction, from the system. And the active engineering, there are a lot of different ways you could do it, all the way from, you know, raw, just I'm going to send you whatever I'm thinking. >> Yeah. >> And you get the unintended outcomes, to more constrained, where I'm going to just use my own data, and I'm going to constrain the initial inputs, the data I already know that's first party, and I trust, to, you know, hyper constrain, where the application is actually, it's looking for certain elements to respond to. >> It's interesting Amr, this is why I love this, because one we are in the media, we're recording this video now, we'll stream it. But we got all your linguistics, we're talking. >> Yes. >> This is data. >> Yep. >> So the data quality becomes now the new intellectual property, because, if you have that prompt source data, it makes data or content, in our case, the original content, intellectual property. >> Absolutely. >> Because that's the value. And that's where you see chatGPT fall down, is because they're trying to scroll the web, and people think it's search. It's not necessarily search, it's giving you something that you wanted. It is a lot of that, I remember in Cloudera, you said, "Ask the right questions." Remember that phrase you guys had, that slogan? >> Mm hmm. And that's prompt engineering. So that's exactly, that's the reinvention of "Ask the right question," is prompt engineering is, if you don't give these models the question in the right way, and very few people know how to frame it in the right way with the right context, then you will get garbage out. Right? That is the garbage in, garbage out. But if you specify the question correctly, and you provide with it the metadata that constrain what that question is going to be acted upon or answered upon, then you'll get much better answers. And that's exactly what we solved Vectara. >> Okay. So before we get into the last couple minutes we have left, I want to make sure we get a plug in for the opportunity, and the profile of Vectara, your new company. Can you guys both share with me what you think the current situation is? So for the folks who are now having those moments of, "Ah, AI's bullshit," or, "It's not real, it's a lot of stuff," from, "Oh my god, this is magic," to, "Okay, this is the future." >> Yes. >> What would you say to that person, if you're at a cocktail party, or in the elevator say, "Calm down, this is the first inning." How do you explain the dynamics going on right now, to someone who's either in the industry, but not in the ropes? How would you explain like, what this wave's about? How would you describe it, and how would you prepare them for how to change their life around this? >> Yeah, so I'll go first and then I'll let Ed go. Efficiency, efficiency is the description. So we figured that a way to be a lot more efficient, a way where you can write a lot more emails, create way more content, create way more presentations. Developers can develop 10 times faster than they normally would. And that is very similar to what happened during the Industrial Revolution. I always like to look at examples from the past, to read what will happen now, and what will happen in the future. So during the Industrial Revolution, it was about efficiency with our hands, right? So I had to make a piece of cloth, like this piece of cloth for this shirt I'm wearing. Our ancestors, they had to spend month taking the cotton, making it into threads, taking the threads, making them into pieces of cloth, and then cutting it. And now a machine makes it just like that, right? And the ancestors now turned from the people that do the thing, to manage the machines that do the thing. And I think the same thing is going to happen now, is our efficiency will be multiplied extremely, as human beings, and we'll be able to do a lot more. And many of us will be able to do things they couldn't do before. So another great example I always like to use is the example of Google Maps, and GPS. Very few of us knew how to drive a car from one location to another, and read a map, and get there correctly. But once that efficiency of an AI, by the way, behind these things is very, very complex AI, that figures out how to do that for us. All of us now became amazing navigators that can go from any point to any point. So that's kind of how I look at the future. >> And that's a great real example of impact. Ed, your take on how you would talk to a friend, or colleague, or anyone who asks like, "How do I make sense of the current situation? "Is it real? "What's in it for me, and what do I do?" I mean every company's rethinking their business right now, around this. What would you say to them? >> You know, I usually like to show, rather than describe. And so, you know, the other day I just got access, I've been using an application for a long time, called Notion, and it's super popular. There's like 30 or 40 million users. And the new version of Notion came out, which has AI embedded within it. And it's AI that allows you primarily to create. So if you could break down the world of AI into find and create, for a minute, just kind of logically separate those two things, find is certainly going to be massively impacted in our experiences as consumers on, you know, Google and Bing, and I can't believe I just said the word Bing in the same sentence as Google, but that's what's happening now (all laughing), because it's a good example of change. >> Yes. >> But also inside the business. But on the crate side, you know, Notion is a wiki product, where you try to, you know, note down things that you are thinking about, or you want to share and memorialize. But sometimes you do need help to get it down fast. And just in the first day of using this new product, like my experience has really fundamentally changed. And I think that anybody who would, you know, anybody say for example, that is using an existing app, I would show them, open up the app. Now imagine the possibility of getting a starting point right off the bat, in five seconds of, instead of having to whole cloth draft this thing, imagine getting a starting point then you can modify and edit, or just dispose of and retry again. And that's the potential for me. I can't imagine a scenario where, in a few years from now, I'm going to be satisfied if I don't have a little bit of help, in the same way that I don't manually spell check every email that I send. I automatically spell check it. I love when I'm getting type ahead support inside of Google, or anything. Doesn't mean I always take it, or when texting. >> That's efficiency too. I mean the cloud was about developers getting stuff up quick. >> Exactly. >> All that heavy lifting is there for you, so you don't have to do it. >> Right? >> And you get to the value faster. >> Exactly. I mean, if history taught us one thing, it's, you have to always embrace efficiency, and if you don't fast enough, you will fall behind. Again, looking at the industrial revolution, the companies that embraced the industrial revolution, they became the leaders in the world, and the ones who did not, they all like. >> Well the AI thing that we got to watch out for, is watching how it goes off the rails. If it doesn't have the right prompt engineering, or data architecture, infrastructure. >> Yes. >> It's a big part. So this comes back down to your startup, real quick, I know we got a couple minutes left. Talk about the company, the motivation, and we'll do a deeper dive on on the company. But what's the motivation? What are you targeting for the market, business model? The tech, let's go. >> Actually, I would like Ed to go first. Go ahead. >> Sure, I mean, we're a developer-first, API-first platform. So the product is oriented around allowing developers who may not be superstars, in being able to either leverage, or choose, or select their own large language models for appropriate use cases. But they that want to be able to instantly add the power of large language models into their application set. We started with search, because we think it's going to be one of the first places that people try to take advantage of large language models, to help find information within an application context. And we've built our own large language models, focused on making it very efficient, and elegant, to find information more quickly. So what a developer can do is, within minutes, go up, register for an account, and get access to a set of APIs, that allow them to send data, to be converted into a format that's easy to understand for large language models, vectors. And then secondarily, they can issue queries, ask questions. And they can ask them very, the questions that can be asked, are very natural language questions. So we're talking about long form sentences, you know, drill down types of questions, and they can get answers that either come back in depending upon the form factor of the user interface, in list form, or summarized form, where summarized equals the opportunity to kind of see a condensed, singular answer. >> All right. I have a. >> Oh okay, go ahead, you go. >> I was just going to say, I'm going to be a customer for you, because I want, my dream was to have a hologram of theCUBE host, me and Dave, and have questions be generated in the metaverse. So you know. (all laughing) >> There'll be no longer any guests here. They'll all be talking to you guys. >> Give a couple bullets, I'll spit out 10 good questions. Publish a story. This brings the automation, I'm sorry to interrupt you. >> No, no. No, no, I was just going to follow on on the same. So another way to look at exactly what Ed described is, we want to offer you chatGPT for your own data, right? So imagine taking all of the recordings of all of the interviews you have done, and having all of the content of that being ingested by a system, where you can now have a conversation with your own data and say, "Oh, last time when I met Amr, "which video games did we talk about? "Which movie or book did we use as an analogy "for how we should be embracing data science, "and big data, which is moneyball," I know you use moneyball all the time. And you start having that conversation. So, now the data doesn't become a passive asset that you just have in your organization. No. It's an active participant that's sitting with you, on the table, helping you make decisions. >> One of my favorite things to do with customers, is to go to their site or application, and show them me using it. So for example, one of the customers I talked to was one of the biggest property management companies in the world, that lets people go and rent homes, and houses, and things like that. And you know, I went and I showed them me searching through reviews, looking for information, and trying different words, and trying to find out like, you know, is this place quiet? Is it comfortable? And then I put all the same data into our platform, and I showed them the world of difference you can have when you start asking that question wholeheartedly, and getting real information that doesn't have anything to do with the words you asked, but is really focused on the meaning. You know, when I asked like, "Is it quiet?" You know, answers would come back like, "The wind whispered through the trees peacefully," and you know, it's like nothing to do with quiet in the literal word sense, but in the meaning sense, everything to do with it. And that that was magical even for them, to see that. >> Well you guys are the front end of this big wave. Congratulations on the startup, Amr. I know you guys got great pedigree in big data, and you've got a great team, and congratulations. Vectara is the name of the company, check 'em out. Again, the startup boom is coming. This will be one of the major waves, generative AI is here. I think we'll look back, and it will be pointed out as a major inflection point in the industry. >> Absolutely. >> There's not a lot of hype behind that. People are are seeing it, experts are. So it's going to be fun, thanks for watching. >> Thanks John. (soft music)

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and ETR this is breaking analysis with Dave vellante the ascendancy of AWS under the leadership of Andy jassy was marked by a tsunami of data and corresponding cloud services to leverage that data now those Services they mainly came in the form of Primitives I.E basic building blocks that were used by developers to create more sophisticated capabilities AWS in the 2020s being led by CEO Adam solipski will be marked by four high-level Trends in our opinion one A Rush of data that will dwarf anything we've previously seen two a doubling or even tripling down on the basic elements of cloud compute storage database security Etc three a greater emphasis on end-to-end integration of AWS services to simplify and accelerate customer adoption of cloud and four significantly deeper business integration of cloud Beyond it as an underlying element of organizational operations hello and welcome to this week's wikibon Cube insights powered by ETR in this breaking analysis we extract and analyze nuggets from John furrier's annual sit-down with the CEO of AWS we'll share data from ETR and other sources to set the context for the market and competition in cloud and we'll give you our glimpse of what to expect at re invent in 2022. now before we get into the core of our analysis Alibaba has announced earnings they always announced after the big three you know a month later and we've updated our Q3 slash November hyperscale Computing forecast for the year as seen here and we're going to spend a lot of time on this as most of you have seen the bulk of it already but suffice to say alibaba's cloud business is hitting that same macro Trend that we're seeing across the board but a more substantial slowdown than we expected and more substantial than its peers they're facing China headwinds they've been restructuring its Cloud business and it's led to significantly slower growth uh in in the you know low double digits as opposed to where we had it at 15 this puts our year-end estimates for 2022 Revenue at 161 billion still a healthy 34 growth with AWS surpassing 80 billion in 2022 Revenue now on a related note one of the big themes in Cloud that we've been reporting on is how customers are optimizing their Cloud spend it's a technique that they use and when the economy looks a little shaky and here's a graphic that we pulled from aws's website which shows the various pricing plans at a high level as you know they're much more granular than that and more sophisticated but Simplicity we'll just keep it here basically there are four levels first one here is on demand I.E pay by the drink now we're going to jump down to what we've labeled as number two spot instances that's like the right place at the right time I can use that extra capacity in the moment the third is reserved instances or RIS where I pay up front to get a discount and the fourth is sort of optimized savings plans where customers commit to a one or three year term and for a better price now you'll notice we labeled the choices in a different order than AWS presented them on its website and that's because we believe that the order that we chose is the natural progression for customers this started on demand they maybe experiment with spot instances they move to reserve instances when the cloud bill becomes too onerous and if you're large enough you lock in for one or three years okay the interesting thing is the order in which AWS presents them we believe that on-demand accounts for the majority of AWS customer spending now if you think about it those on-demand customers they're also at risk customers yeah sure there's some switching costs like egress and learning curve but many customers they have multiple clouds and they've got experience and so they're kind of already up to a learning curve and if you're not married to AWS with a longer term commitment there's less friction to switch now AWS here presents the most attractive plan from a financial perspective second after on demand and it's also the plan that makes the greatest commitment from a lock-in standpoint now In fairness to AWS it's also true that there is a trend towards subscription-based pricing and we have some data on that this chart is from an ETR drill down survey the end is 300. pay attention to the bars on the right the left side is sort of busy but the pink is subscription and you can see the trend upward the light blue is consumption based or on demand based pricing and you can see there's a steady Trend toward subscription now we'll dig into this in a later episode of Breaking analysis but we'll share with you a little some tidbits with the data that ETR provides you can select which segment is and pass or you can go up the stack Etc but so when you choose is and paths 44 of customers either prefer or are required to use on-demand pricing whereas around 40 percent of customers say they either prefer or are required to use subscription pricing again that's for is so now the further mu you move up the stack the more prominent subscription pricing becomes often with sixty percent or more for the software-based offerings that require or prefer subscription and interestingly cyber security tracks along with software at around 60 percent that that prefer subscription it's likely because as with software you're not shutting down your cyber protection on demand all right let's get into the expectations for reinvent and we're going to start with an observation in data in this 2018 book seeing digital author David michella made the point that whereas most companies apply data on the periphery of their business kind of as an add-on function successful data companies like Google and Amazon and Facebook have placed data at the core of their operations they've operationalized data and they apply machine intelligence to that foundational element why is this the fact is it's not easy to do what the internet Giants have done very very sophisticated engineering and and and cultural discipline and this brings us to reinvent 2022 in the future of cloud machine learning and AI will increasingly be infused into applications we believe the data stack and the application stack are coming together as organizations build data apps and data products data expertise is moving from the domain of Highly specialized individuals to Everyday business people and we are just at the cusp of this trend this will in our view be a massive theme of not only re invent 22 but of cloud in the 2020s the vision of data mesh We Believe jamachtagani's principles will be realized in this decade now what we'd like to do now is share with you a glimpse of the thinking of Adam solipsky from his sit down with John Furrier each year John has a one-on-one conversation with the CEO of AWS AWS he's been doing this for years and the outcome is a better understanding of the directional thinking of the leader of the number one Cloud platform so we're now going to share some direct quotes I'm going to run through them with some commentary and then bring in some ETR data to analyze the market implications here we go this is from solipsky quote I.T in general and data are moving from departments into becoming intrinsic parts of how businesses function okay we're talking here about deeper business integration let's go on to the next one quote in time we'll stop talking about people who have the word analyst we inserted data he meant data data analyst in their title rather will have hundreds of millions of people who analyze data as part of their day-to-day job most of whom will not have the word analyst anywhere in their title we're talking about graphic designers and pizza shop owners and product managers and data scientists as well he threw that in I'm going to come back to that very interesting so he's talking about here about democratizing data operationalizing data next quote customers need to be able to take an end-to-end integrated view of their entire data Journey from ingestion to storage to harmonizing the data to being able to query it doing business Intelligence and human-based Analysis and being able to collaborate and share data and we've been putting together we being Amazon together a broad Suite of tools from database to analytics to business intelligence to help customers with that and this last statement it's true Amazon has a lot of tools and you know they're beginning to become more and more integrated but again under jassy there was not a lot of emphasis on that end-to-end integrated view we believe it's clear from these statements that solipsky's customer interactions are leading him to underscore that the time has come for this capability okay continuing quote if you have data in one place you shouldn't have to move it every time you want to analyze that data couldn't agree more it would be much better if you could leave that data in place avoid all the ETL which has become a nasty three-letter word more and more we're building capabilities where you can query that data in place end quote okay this we see a lot in the marketplace Oracle with mySQL Heatwave the entire Trend toward converge database snowflake [ __ ] extending their platforms into transaction and analytics respectively and so forth a lot of the partners are are doing things as well in that vein let's go into the next quote the other phenomenon is infusing machine learning into all those capabilities yes the comments from the michelleographic come into play here infusing Ai and machine intelligence everywhere next one quote it's not a data Cloud it's not a separate Cloud it's a series of broad but integrated capabilities to help you manage the end-to-end life cycle of your data there you go we AWS are the cloud we're going to come back to that in a moment as well next set of comments around data very interesting here quote data governance is a huge issue really what customers need is to find the right balance of their organization between access to data and control and if you provide too much access then you're nervous that your data is going to end up in places that it shouldn't shouldn't be viewed by people who shouldn't be viewing it and you feel like you lack security around that data and by the way what happens then is people overreact and they lock it down so that almost nobody can see it it's those handcuffs there's data and asset are reliability we've talked about that for years okay very well put by solipsky but this is a gap in our in our view within AWS today and we're we're hoping that they close it at reinvent it's not easy to share data in a safe way within AWS today outside of your organization so we're going to look for that at re invent 2022. now all this leads to the following statement by solipsky quote data clean room is a really interesting area and I think there's a lot of different Industries in which clean rooms are applicable I think that clean rooms are an interesting way of enabling multiple parties to share and collaborate on the data while completely respecting each party's rights and their privacy mandate okay again this is a gap currently within AWS today in our view and we know snowflake is well down this path and databricks with Delta sharing is also on this curve so AWS has to address this and demonstrate this end-to-end data integration and the ability to safely share data in our view now let's bring in some ETR spending data to put some context around these comments with reference points in the form of AWS itself and its competitors and partners here's a chart from ETR that shows Net score or spending momentum on the x-axis an overlap or pervasiveness in the survey um sorry let me go back up the net scores on the y-axis and overlap or pervasiveness in the survey is on the x-axis so spending momentum by pervasiveness okay or should have share within the data set the table that's inserted there with the Reds and the greens that informs us to how the dots are positioned so it's Net score and then the shared ends are how the plots are determined now we've filtered the data on the three big data segments analytics database and machine learning slash Ai and we've only selected one company with fewer than 100 ends in the survey and that's databricks you'll see why in a moment the red dotted line indicates highly elevated customer spend at 40 percent now as usual snowflake outperforms all players on the y-axis with a Net score of 63 percent off the charts all three big U.S cloud players are above that line with Microsoft and AWS dominating the x-axis so very impressive that they have such spending momentum and they're so large and you see a number of other emerging data players like rafana and datadog mongodbs there in the mix and then more established players data players like Splunk and Tableau now you got Cisco who's gonna you know it's a it's a it's a adjacent to their core networking business but they're definitely into you know the analytics business then the really established players in data like Informatica IBM and Oracle all with strong presence but you'll notice in the red from the momentum standpoint now what you're going to see in a moment is we put red highlights around databricks Snowflake and AWS why let's bring that back up and we'll explain so there's no way let's bring that back up Alex if you would there's no way AWS is going to hit the brakes on innovating at the base service level what we call Primitives earlier solipsky told Furrier as much in their sit down that AWS will serve the technical user and data science Community the traditional domain of data bricks and at the same time address the end-to-end integration data sharing and business line requirements that snowflake is positioned to serve now people often ask Snowflake and databricks how will you compete with the likes of AWS and we know the answer focus on data exclusively they have their multi-cloud plays perhaps the more interesting question is how will AWS compete with the likes of Specialists like Snowflake and data bricks and the answer is depicted here in this chart AWS is going to serve both the technical and developer communities and the data science audience and through end-to-end Integrations and future services that simplify the data Journey they're going to serve the business lines as well but the Nuance is in all the other dots in the hundreds or hundreds of thousands that are not shown here and that's the AWS ecosystem you can see AWS has earned the status of the number one Cloud platform that everyone wants to partner with as they say it has over a hundred thousand partners and that ecosystem combined with these capabilities that we're discussing well perhaps behind in areas like data sharing and integrated governance can wildly succeed by offering the capabilities and leveraging its ecosystem now for their part the snowflakes of the world have to stay focused on the mission build the best products possible and develop their own ecosystems to compete and attract the Mind share of both developers and business users and that's why it's so interesting to hear solipski basically say it's not a separate Cloud it's a set of integrated Services well snowflake is in our view building a super cloud on top of AWS Azure and Google when great products meet great sales and marketing good things can happen so this will be really fun to watch what AWS announces in this area at re invent all right one other topic that solipsky talked about was the correlation between serverless and container adoption and you know I don't know if this gets into there certainly their hybrid place maybe it starts to get into their multi-cloud we'll see but we have some data on this so again we're talking about the correlation between serverless and container adoption but before we get into that let's go back to 2017 and listen to what Andy jassy said on the cube about serverless play the clip very very earliest days of AWS Jeff used to say a lot if I were starting Amazon today I'd have built it on top of AWS we didn't have all the capability and all the functionality at that very moment but he knew what was coming and he saw what people were still able to accomplish even with where the services were at that point I think the same thing is true here with Lambda which is I think if Amazon were starting today it's a given they would build it on the cloud and I think we with a lot of the applications that comprise Amazon's consumer business we would build those on on our serverless capabilities now we still have plenty of capabilities and features and functionality we need to add to to Lambda and our various serverless services so that may not be true from the get-go right now but I think if you look at the hundreds of thousands of customers who are building on top of Lambda and lots of real applications you know finra has built a good chunk of their market watch application on top of Lambda and Thompson Reuters has built you know one of their key analytics apps like people are building real serious things on top of Lambda and the pace of iteration you'll see there will increase as well and I really believe that to be true over the next year or two so years ago when Jesse gave a road map that serverless was going to be a key developer platform going forward and so lipsky referenced the correlation between serverless and containers in the Furrier sit down so we wanted to test that within the ETR data set now here's a screen grab of The View across 1300 respondents from the October ETR survey and what we've done here is we've isolated on the cloud computing segment okay so you can see right there cloud computing segment now we've taken the functions from Google AWS Lambda and Microsoft Azure functions all the serverless offerings and we've got Net score on the vertical axis we've got presence in the data set oh by the way 440 by the way is highly elevated remember that and then we've got on the horizontal axis we have the presence in the data center overlap okay that's relative to each other so remember 40 all these guys are above that 40 mark okay so you see that now what we're going to do this is just for serverless and what we're going to do is we're going to turn on containers to see the correlation and see what happens so watch what happens when we click on container boom everything moves to the right you can see all three move to the right Google drops a little bit but all the others now the the filtered end drops as well so you don't have as many people that are aggressively leaning into both but all three move to the right so watch again containers off and then containers on containers off containers on so you can see a really major correlation between containers and serverless okay so to get a better understanding of what that means I call my friend and former Cube co-host Stu miniman what he said was people generally used to think of VMS containers and serverless as distinctly different architectures but the lines are beginning to blur serverless makes things simpler for developers who don't want to worry about underlying infrastructure as solipsky and the data from ETR indicate serverless and containers are coming together but as Stu and I discussed there's a spectrum where on the left you have kind of native Cloud VMS in the middle you got AWS fargate and in the rightmost anchor is Lambda AWS Lambda now traditionally in the cloud if you wanted to use containers developers would have to build a container image they have to select and deploy the ec2 images that they or instances that they wanted to use they have to allocate a certain amount of memory and then fence off the apps in a virtual machine and then run the ec2 instances against the apps and then pay for all those ec2 resources now with AWS fargate you can run containerized apps with less infrastructure management but you still have some you know things that you can you can you can do with the with the infrastructure so with fargate what you do is you'd build the container images then you'd allocate your memory and compute resources then run the app and pay for the resources only when they're used so fargate lets you control the runtime environment while at the same time simplifying the infrastructure management you gotta you don't have to worry about isolating the app and other stuff like choosing server types and patching AWS does all that for you then there's Lambda with Lambda you don't have to worry about any of the underlying server infrastructure you're just running code AS functions so the developer spends their time worrying about the applications and the functions that you're calling the point is there's a movement and we saw in the data towards simplifying the development environment and allowing the cloud vendor AWS in this case to do more of the underlying management now some folks will still want to turn knobs and dials but increasingly we're going to see more higher level service adoption now re invent is always a fire hose of content so let's do a rapid rundown of what to expect we talked about operate optimizing data and the organization we talked about Cloud optimization there'll be a lot of talk on the show floor about best practices and customer sharing data solipsky is leading AWS into the next phase of growth and that means moving beyond I.T transformation into deeper business integration and organizational transformation not just digital transformation organizational transformation so he's leading a multi-vector strategy serving the traditional peeps who want fine-grained access to core services so we'll see continued Innovation compute storage AI Etc and simplification through integration and horizontal apps further up to stack Amazon connect is an example that's often cited now as we've reported many times databricks is moving from its stronghold realm of data science into business intelligence and analytics where snowflake is coming from its data analytics stronghold and moving into the world of data science AWS is going down a path of snowflake meet data bricks with an underlying cloud is and pass layer that puts these three companies on a very interesting trajectory and you can expect AWS to go right after the data sharing opportunity and in doing so it will have to address data governance they go hand in hand okay price performance that is a topic that will never go away and it's something that we haven't mentioned today silicon it's a it's an area we've covered extensively on breaking analysis from Nitro to graviton to the AWS acquisition of Annapurna its secret weapon new special specialized capabilities like inferential and trainium we'd expect something more at re invent maybe new graviton instances David floyer our colleague said he's expecting at some point a complete system on a chip SOC from AWS and maybe an arm-based server to eventually include high-speed cxl connections to devices and memories all to address next-gen applications data intensive applications with low power requirements and lower cost overall now of course every year Swami gives his usual update on machine learning and AI building on Amazon's years of sagemaker innovation perhaps a focus on conversational AI or a better support for vision and maybe better integration across Amazon's portfolio of you know large language models uh neural networks generative AI really infusing AI everywhere of course security always high on the list that reinvent and and Amazon even has reinforce a conference dedicated to it uh to security now here we'd like to see more on supply chain security and perhaps how AWS can help there as well as tooling to make the cio's life easier but the key so far is AWS is much more partner friendly in the security space than say for instance Microsoft traditionally so firms like OCTA and crowdstrike in Palo Alto have plenty of room to play in the AWS ecosystem we'd expect of course to hear something about ESG it's an important topic and hopefully how not only AWS is helping the environment that's important but also how they help customers save money and drive inclusion and diversity again very important topics and finally come back to it reinvent is an ecosystem event it's the Super Bowl of tech events and the ecosystem will be out in full force every tech company on the planet will have a presence and the cube will be featuring many of the partners from the serial floor as well as AWS execs and of course our own independent analysis so you'll definitely want to tune into thecube.net and check out our re invent coverage we start Monday evening and then we go wall to wall through Thursday hopefully my voice will come back we have three sets at the show and our entire team will be there so please reach out or stop by and say hello all right we're going to leave it there for today many thanks to Stu miniman and David floyer for the input to today's episode of course John Furrier for extracting the signal from the noise and a sit down with Adam solipski thanks to Alex Meyerson who was on production and manages the podcast Ken schiffman as well Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight helped get the word out on social and of course in our newsletters Rob hoef is our editor-in-chief over at siliconangle does some great editing thank thanks to all of you remember all these episodes are available as podcasts wherever you listen you can pop in the headphones go for a walk just search breaking analysis podcast I published each week on wikibon.com at siliconangle.com or you can email me at david.valante at siliconangle.com or DM me at di vallante or please comment on our LinkedIn posts and do check out etr.ai for the best survey data in the Enterprise Tech business this is Dave vellante for the cube insights powered by ETR thanks for watching we'll see it reinvent or we'll see you next time on breaking analysis [Music]

>>Good afternoon, brilliant humans, and welcome back to the Cube. We're live in Detroit, Michigan at Cub Con, and I'm joined by John Furrier. John three exciting days buzzing. How you doing? >>That's great. I mean, we're coming down to the third day. We're keeping the energy going, but this segment's gonna be awesome. The CD foundation's doing amazing work. Developers are gonna be running businesses and workflows are changing. Productivity's the top conversation, and you're gonna start to see a coalescing of the communities who are continuous delivery, and it's gonna be awesome. >>And, and our next guess is an outstanding person to talk about this. We are joined by Stephen Chin, the chair of the CD Foundation. Steven, thanks so much for being here. >>No, no, my pleasure. I mean, this has been an amazing week quote that CubeCon with all of the announcements, all of the people who came out here to Detroit and, you know, fantastic. Like just walking around, you bump into all the right people here. Plus we held a CD summit zero day events, and had a lot of really exciting announcements this week. >>Gotta love the shirt. I gotta say, it's one of my favorites. Love the logos. Love the love the branding. That project got traction. What's the news in the CD foundation? I tried to sneak in the back. I got a little laid into your co-located event. It was packed. Everyone's engaged. It was really looked, look really cool. Give us the update. >>What's the news? Yeah, I know. So we, we had a really, really powerful event. All the key practitioners, the open source leads and folks were there. And one of, one of the things which I think we've done a really good job in the past six months with the CD foundation is getting back to the roots and focusing on technical innovation, right? This is what drives foundations, having strong projects, having people who are building innovation, and also bringing in a new innovation. So one of the projects which we added to the CD foundation this week is called Persia. So it's a, it's a decentralized package repository for getting open source libraries. And it solves a lot of the problems which you get when you have centralized infrastructure. You don't have the right security certificates, you don't have the right verification libraries. And these, these are all things which large companies provision and build out inside of their infrastructure. But the open source communities don't have the benefit of the same sort of really, really strong architecture. A lot of, a lot of the systems we depend upon. It's >>A good point, yeah. >>Yeah. I mean, if you think about the systems that developers depend upon, we depend upon, you know, npm, ruby Gems, Mayn Central, and these systems been around for a while. Like they serve the community well, right? They're, they're well supported by the companies and it's, it's, it's really a great contribution that they give us. But every time there's an outage or there's a security issue, guess, guess how many security issues that our, our research team found at npm? Just ballpark. >>74. >>So there're >>It's gotta be thousands. I mean, it's gotta be a lot of tons >>Of Yeah, >>They, they're currently up to 60,000 >>Whoa. >>Vulnerable, malicious packages in NPM and >>Oh my gosh. So that's a super, that's a jar number even. I know it was gonna be huge, but Holy mo. >>Yeah. So that's a software supply chain in actually right there. So that's, that's open source. Everything's out there. What's, how do, how does, how do you guys fix that? >>Yeah, so per peria kind of shifts the whole model. So when, when you think about a system that can be sustained, it has to be something which, which is not just one company. It has to be a, a, a set of companies, be vendor neutral and be decentralized. So that's why we donated it to the Continuous Delivery Foundation. So that can be that governance body, which, which makes sure it's not a single company, it is to use modern technologies. So you, you, you just need something which is immutable, so it can't be changed. So you can rely on it. It has to have a strong transaction ledger so you can see all of the history of it. You can build up your software, build materials off of it, and it, it has to have a strong peer-to-peer architecture, so it can be sustained long term. >>Steven, you mentioned something I want to just get back to. You mentioned outages and disruption. I, you didn't, you didn't say just the outages, but this whole disruption angle is interesting if something happens. Talk about the impact of the developer. They stalled, inefficiencies create basically disruption. >>No, I mean, if, if, so, so if you think about most DevOps teams in big companies, they support hundreds or thousands of teams and an hour of outage. All those developers, they, they can't program, they can't work. And that's, that's a huge loss of productivity for the company. Now, if you, if you take that up a level when MPM goes down for an hour, how many millions of man hours are wasted by not being able to get your builds working by not being able to get your codes to compile. Like it's, it's >>Like, yeah, I mean, it's almost hard to fathom. I mean, everyone's, It's stopped. Exactly. It's literally like having the plug pulled >>Exactly on whenever you're working on, That's, that's the fundamental problem we're trying to solve. Is it, it needs to be on a, like a well supported, well architected peer to peer network with some strong backing from big companies. So the company is working on Persia, include J Frog, which who I work for, Docker, Oracle. We have Deploy hub, Huawei, a whole bunch of other folks who are also helping out. And when you look at all of those folks, they all have different interests, but it's designed in a way where no single party has control over the network. So really it's, it's a system system. You, you're not relying upon one company or one logo. You're relying upon a well-architected open source implementation that everyone can rely >>On. That's shared software, but it's kind of a fault tolerant feature too. It's like, okay, if something happens here, you have a distributed piece of it, decentralized, you're not gonna go down. You can remediate. All right, so where's this go next? I mean, cuz we've been talking about the role of developer. This needs to be a modern, I won't say modern upgrade, but like a modern workflow or value chain. What's your vision? How do you see that? Cuz you're the center of the CD foundation coming together. People are gonna be coalescing multiple groups. Yeah. >>What's the, No, I think this is a good point. So there, there's a, a lot of different continuous delivery, continuous integration technologies. We're actually, from a Linux Foundation standpoint, we're coalescing all the continued delivery events into one big conference >>Next. You just made an announcement about this earlier this week. Tell us about CD events. What's going on, what's in, what's in the cooker? >>Yeah, and I think one of the big announcements we had was the 0.1 release of CD events. And CD events allows you to take all these systems and connect them in an event scalable, event oriented architecture. The first integration is between Tecton and Capin. So now you can get CD events flowing cleanly between your, your continuous delivery and your observability. And this extends through your entire DevOps pipeline. We all, we all need a standards based framework Yep. For how we get all the disparate continuous integration, continuous delivery, observability systems to, to work together. That's also high performance. It scales with our needs and it, it kind of gives you a future architecture to build on top of. So a lot of the companies I was talking with at the CD summit Yeah. They were very excited about not only using this with the projects we announced, but using this internally as an architecture to build their own DevOps pipelines on. >>I bet that feels good to hear. >>Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. >>Yeah. You mentioned Teton, they just graduated. I saw how many projects have graduated? >>So we have two graduated projects right now. We have Jenkins, which is the first graduated project. Now Tecton is also graduated. And I think this shows that for Tecton it was, it was time, the very mature project, great support, getting a lot of users and having them join the set of graduated projects. And the continuous delivery foundation is a really strong portfolio. And we have a bunch of other projects which also are on their way towards graduation. >>Feels like a moment of social proof I bet. >>For you all. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, it's really good. Yeah. >>How long has the CD Foundation been around? >>The CD foundation has been around for, i, I won't wanna say the exact number of years, a few years now. >>Okay. >>But I, I think that it, it was formed because what we wanted is we wanted a foundation which was purpose built. So CNCF is a great foundation. It has a very large umbrella of projects and it takes kind of that big umbrella approach where a lot of different efforts are joining it, a lot of things are happening and you can get good traction, but it produces its own bottlenecks in process. Having a foundation which is just about continuous delivery caters to more of a DevOps, professional DevOps audience. I think this, this gives a good platform for best practices. We're working on a new CDF best practices Yeah. Guide. We're working when use cases with all the member companies. And it, it gives that thought leadership platform for continuous delivery, which you need to be an expert in that area >>And the best practices too. And to identify the issues. Because at the end of the day, with the big thing that's coming out of this is velocity and more developers coming on board. I mean, this is the big thing. More people doing more. Yeah. Well yeah, I mean you take this open source continuous thunder away, you have more developers coming in, they be more productive and then people are gonna even either on the DevOps side or on the straight AP upside. And this is gonna be a huge issue. And the other thing that comes out that I wanna get your thoughts on is the supply chain issue you talked about is hot verifications and certifications of code is such big issue. Can you share your thoughts on that? Because Yeah, this is become, I won't say a business model for some companies, but it's also becoming critical for security that codes verified. >>Yeah. Okay. So I, I think one of, one of the things which we're specifically doing with the Peria project, which is unique, is rather than distributing, for example, libraries that you developed on your laptop and compiled there, or maybe they were built on, you know, a runner somewhere like Travis CI or GitHub actions, all the libraries being distributed on Persia are built by the authorized nodes in the network. And then they're, they're verified across all of the authorized nodes. So you nice, you have a, a gar, the basic guarantee we're giving you is when you download something from the Peria network, you'll get exactly the same binary as if you built it yourself from source. >>So there's a lot of trust >>And, and transparency. Yeah, exactly. And if you remember back to like kind of the seminal project, which kicked off this whole supply chain security like, like whirlwind it was SolarWinds. Yeah. Yeah. And the exact problem they hit was the build ran, it produced a result, they modified the code of the bill of the resulting binary and then they signed it. So if you built with the same source and then you went through that same process a second time, you would've gotten a different result, which was a malicious pre right. Yeah. And it's very hard to risk take, to take a binary file Yep. And determine if there's malicious code in it. Cuz it's not like source code. You can't inspect it, you can't do a code audit. It's totally different. So I think we're solving a key part of this with Persia, where you're freeing open source projects from the possibility of having their binaries, their packages, their end reduces, tampered with. And also upstream from this, you do want to have verification of prs, people doing code reviews, making sure that they're looking at the source code. And I think there's a lot of good efforts going on in the open source security foundation. So I'm also on the governing board of Open ssf >>To Do you sleep? You have three jobs you've said on camera? No, I can't even imagine. Yeah. Didn't >>You just spin that out from this open source security? Is that the new one they >>Spun out? Yeah, So the Open Source Security foundation is one of the new Linux Foundation projects. They, they have been around for a couple years, but they did a big reboot last year around this time. And I think what they really did a good job of now is bringing all the industry players to the table, having dialogue with government agencies, figuring out like, what do we need to do to support open source projects? Is it more investment in memory, safe languages? Do we need to have more investment in, in code audits or like security reviews of opensource projects. Lot of things. And all of those things require money investments. And that's what all the companies, including Jay Frogger doing to advance open source supply chain security. I >>Mean, it's, it's really kind of interesting to watch some different demographics of the developers and the vendors and the customers. On one hand, if you're a hardware person company, you have, you talk zero trust your software, your top trust, so your trusted code, and you got zero trust. It's interesting, depending on where you're coming from, they're all trying to achieve the same thing. It means zero trust. Makes sense. But then also I got code, I I want trust. Trust and verified. So security is in everything now. So code. So how do you see that traversing over? Is it just semantics or what's your view on that? >>The, the right way of looking at security is from the standpoint of the hacker, because they're always looking for >>Well said, very well said, New >>Loop, hope, new loopholes, new exploits. And they're, they're very, very smart people. And I think when you, when you look some >>Of the smartest >>Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I work with, well former hackers now, security researchers, >>They converted, they're >>Recruited. But when you look at them, there's like two main classes of like, like types of exploits. So some, some attacker groups. What they're looking for is they're looking for pulse zero days, CVEs, like existing vulnerabilities that they can exploit to break into systems. But there's an increasing number of attackers who are now on the opposite end of the spectrum. And what they're doing is they're creating their own exploits. So, oh, they're for example, putting malicious code into open source projects. Little >>Trojan horse status. Yeah. >>They're they're getting their little Trojan horses in. Yeah. Or they're finding supply chain attacks by maybe uploading a malicious library to NPM or to pii. And by creating these attacks, especially ones that start at the top of the supply chain, you have such a large reach. >>I was just gonna say, it could be a whole, almost gives me chills as we're talking about it, the systemic, So this is this >>Gnarly nation state attackers, like people who wanted serious >>Damages. Engineered hack just said they're high, highly funded. Highly skilled. Exactly. Highly agile, highly focused. >>Yes. >>Teams, team. Not in the teams. >>Yeah. And so, so one, one example of this, which actually netted quite a lot of money for the, for the hacker who exposed it was, you guys probably heard about this, but it was a, an attack where they uploaded a malicious library to npm with the same exact namespace as a corporate library and clever, >>Creepy. >>It's called a dependency injection attack. And what happens is if you, if you don't have the right sort of security package management guidelines inside your company, and it's just looking for the latest version of merging multiple repositories as like a, like a single view. A lot of companies were accidentally picking up the latest version, which was out in npm uploaded by Alex Spearson was the one who did the, the attack. And he simultaneously reported bug bounties on like a dozen different companies and netted 130 k. Wow. So like these sort of attacks that they're real Yep. They're exploitable. And the, the hackers >>Complex >>Are finding these sort of attacks now in our supply chain are the ones who really are the most dangerous. That's the biggest threat to us. >>Yeah. And we have stacker ones out there. You got a bunch of other services, the white hat hackers get the bounties. That's really important. All right. What's next? What's your vision of this show as we end Coan? What's the most important story coming outta Coan in your opinion? And what are you guys doing next? >>Well, I, I actually think this is, this is probably not what most hooks would say is the most exciting story to con, but I find this personally the best is >>I can't wait for this now. >>So, on, on Sunday, the CNCF ran the first kids' day. >>Oh. >>And so they had a, a free kids workshop for, you know, underprivileged kids for >>About, That's >>Detroit area. It was, it was taught by some of the folks from the CNCF community. So Arro, Eric hen my, my older daughter, Cassandra's also an instructor. So she also was teaching a raspberry pie workshop. >>Amazing. And she's >>Here and Yeah, Yeah. She's also here at the show. And when you think about it, you know, there's always, there's, there's, you know, hundreds of announcements this week, A lot of exciting technologies, some of which we've talked about. Yeah. But it's, it's really what matters is the community. >>It this is a community first event >>And the people, and like, if we're giving back to the community and helping Detroit's kids to get better at technology, to get educated, I think that it's a worthwhile for all of us to be here. >>What a beautiful way to close it. That is such, I'm so glad you brought that up and brought that to our attention. I wasn't aware of that. Did you know that was >>Happening, John? No, I know about that. Yeah. No, that was, And that's next generation too. And what we need, we need to get down into the elementary schools. We gotta get to the kids. They're all doing robotics club anyway in high school. Computer science is now, now a >>Sport, in my opinion. Well, I think that if you're in a privileged community, though, I don't think that every school's doing robotics. And >>That's why Well, Cal Poly, Cal Poly and the universities are stepping up and I think CNCF leadership is amazing here. And we need more of it. I mean, I'm, I'm bullish on this. I love it. And I think that's a really great story. No, >>I, I am. Absolutely. And, and it just goes to show how committed CNF is to community, Putting community first and Detroit. There has been such a celebration of Detroit this whole week. Stephen, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Best Wishes with the CD Foundation. John, thanks for the banter as always. And thank you for tuning in to us here live on the cube in Detroit, Michigan. I'm Savannah Peterson and we are having the best day. I hope you are too.

(lighthearted music) >> We're here now with Manoj Nair, who's the general manager of Metallic and Dave Totten CTO with Microsoft. And we're going to talk about some of the announcements that we heard earlier today and what Metallic and Microsoft are doing to meet customer needs around cyber threats and ensuring secure cloud data management. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE. Good to see you. >> Thanks Dave. >> Thank you. >> Hey Manoj, let me start with you. We heard early this morning, Dave Totten was here, David Noe, talk a lot about security. Has the conversation changed, how has it changed when you talk to customers, Manoj? What's top of mind. >> Yeah, thank you, Dave. And thank you, Dave Totten. You know, great conversation earlier. Dave, you and I have talked about this in the past, right? Security long a big passion of mine. You know, having lived through nation state attacks in the past and all that. We're seeing those kinds of techniques really just getting mainstream, right? Ransomware has become a mainstream problem in the scourge in our lives. Now, when you look at it from a lens of data and data management, data protection, backup, all of this was very much a passive you know, compliance centric use case. It was pretty static you know, put it in tapes, haul it all over. And what has really changed with this ransomware and cybercrime change rate is data, which is now your most precious asset, is under attack. So now you see security teams, just like you talked with Dave Martin, from ADP earlier, they are looking for that bridge between SecurityOps and ITOps. That data management solution needs to do more. It needs to be part of an active conversation, you know? Not just, you know, recovery readiness. Can you ensure that, are you testing that, is it recoverable? That is your last mile of defense. So then you get questions like that from security teams. You get you know, the need for doing more, signals. Can I get better signals from my data management stack to tell me I might be under attack? So what we're seeing in the conversation is the need to have more active conversations around data management and the bridge between ITOps and SecurityOps is really becoming paramount for our customers. >> Yeah, Dave Totten I mean, I often say that I think data protection used to be this bolt on. Now it's a fundamental component of the digital business stack. Anything you would add to what Manoj just said. >> Yeah, I would just say exactly that. Data is an asset, right? We talked about it a lot about the competitive advantage that customers are now realizing that no longer is IT considered sort of this cost center element. We need to be able to leverage our interactions with customers, with partners, with supply chains, with manufacturers, we need to be able to leverage that to sort of create differentiation and competitive advantage in the marketplace. And so if you think about it, as that way as the fuel for economic profitability and business growth, you would do everything in your power to secure it, to support it, to make sure you had access to it, to make sure that you didn't have you know, bad intent users accessing it. And I think we're seeing that shift with customers as they think more about how to be more efficient with their investments in information technology and then how just to make sure that they protect the lifeblood of their businesses. >> Yeah, and that just makes it harder because the adversary is very capable. They're coming in through the digital supply chain. So it's complicated. And so Dave and maybe Manoj, you can comment as well after, Microsoft and Commvault, you guys have been working together for decades and so you've seen a lot of the changes, a lot of the waves. So I'm curious as to how the partnership has evolved. You've got a recent strategic announcement around Azure with Metallic. Dave, take us through that. >> Yeah, I mean you know, Commvault and Microsoft aren't newlyweds, we've been together now for 25 plus years. We send each other anniversary gifts, all that good stuff. And you know, listen, there's a couple things that are key to our relationship. One, we started believing in each other's engineering organizations, right? We hire the best, we train and retain the best. And we both put a lot of investment behind our infrastructure and the ability to work together to really innovate at real time, rapid speeds. Two, we use Commvault products so you know, there's no greater I think, advantage that if a major supplier or platform partner like Microsoft uses your products. We've used it for years in our Xbox group to support and store the data for a hundred million XBox live users. And we're very avid with it with our data centers, our access to Azure data centers, our Microsoft office products. And so we use Commvault services as well. And through that mutual relationship you know, obviously Commvault has seen the ins and outs of what's great about our services and where we're continuing to build and invest. And so they've been able to really you know, dedicate a team of engineers and architects to support all that Azure as a platform, as a service can provide. And then how to take the best of those features and build it into their own first party products. I think when you get close enough to somebody for so many years right, 25 plus years, you figure out what they're great at and you learn to take those advantages like Commvault has with Microsoft and Azure and use it to your advantage, right? To build the best in class product that Metallic actually is. And you're right, the announcement this week it feels culminating, it feels like it's a major milestone in first off, industry innovation but also in our relationship. But it's really not that big of a step change from what we've been doing and building and innovating on for the past you know, 25 years. >> Yeah so Manoj, that's got to be music to your ears. Because you come at it with this rich data protection stack, Microsoft there's so many capabilities. One of the courses, which is Azure. It's like the secret weapon, it's become the secret weapon. How do you think about that relationship, Manoj? >> Absolutely Dave said it right. We are strong partners, 25 years, founding in Western Commvault, mutual customers, partnership. You know, really when you look at it from a customer lens, what our customers have appreciated, over the last year of that strengthening of that partnership basically the two pillars of Commvault the leader of data protection, or you know, for the last 25 years, 10 out of 10 in the Gartner MQ comes together with Azure, the enterprise secure cloud leader in creating Metallic. Metallic, now with 1,000 plus customers around the world, there's a reason they trust it. It's now become part of how they protect their Office 365. No workload left behind, which is very unique, you know? So what we have architected together and now we're taking it to the next phase, our joint partners, right? Our joint customers, that those are some of the things that are really changing in terms of how we're accelerating the partnership. >> Manoj, you and I have talked about ransomware a lot, we did a special segment a while back on that. The adversary is very capable. And you know, I put in the chat this morning, at Commvault Connections, you don't even need a high school diploma to be a ransomwarist. You can go on the dark web, you can buy ransomware as a service. All you need is access to a server and you can stick you know, some malware on it. So you know, it's very, very dangerous times. What is it about data management as a service that makes it a good fit right now from a customer perspective to solve this problem? >> Absolutely. Bad guys, real life, or in the cyber world, they have some techniques. First thing they do in a ransomware is you go after the exits. What are the exit doors? Now you back up data, they know that that backup data can be used to recover. So they go and try to defeat the backup products in that environment. That's number one game that changes with data management as a service. Your data management data protection environment is not inside your environment. Chances to do two simultaneous penetrations to try and anything is possible. But now you've got an additional layer of recovery readiness because that control plane secured on top of Microsoft, Azure, 3,500 security professionals, FedRAMP high standard only data management and service entity to get it. As one of our customers said, "A unicorn in the wild", that is what you have as your data management environment. So if something bad happens, worst case, this environment is ready. Our enterprise customers are starting to understand that this is becoming a big reason to shift to this model. You know, then it's okay if you're not ready to shift the entire model, you're given the easy button of just air gapping of your data. So if you're an existing Commvault customer, appliance, software, anything, secure air gap Metallic cloud storage on hardened Azure Blob protected jointly by us, start there. And finally things like active directory. Talk about shutting the exit path, right? Take that down, your entire environment is not accessible. We make it easy for you to recover that. And because of our partnership, we're able to get it for free to every one of our customers. Go protect your active directory environment using (speaks faintly) kind of three big reasons that we're seeing that entire conversation shift in the minds of our customers. >> Yeah, thank you for that. That's a no brainer. Dave, how do Metallic and Microsoft fit together? Where's the you know, kind of value chain if you will, when it comes to dealing with cyber protection or ransomware recovery, how are your customers thinking about that? >> Yeah well, first it's a shared responsibility model, right? When you've got the best in class platform like Azure with built in protections, scalable data centers all over the global footprint. But then also we spend 10 plus billion dollars a year in security and defense and our own data center environments, right? And so I always find it inspiring when companies believe that their investments in security and platform protection is going to do the job. That's true, that used to be true. Now with Azure, you can take advantage of this global scale and secure you know, footprint of investment that a company like Microsoft has done to really set your heart at ease. Now, what do you do with your actual applications and who has access to it, and how do you actually integrate like Manoj was talking about down to the individual or the individual account that's trying to get access to your environment? Well, that's where Commvault comes in at that point of attack or at that point of an actual data element. So if you've got that environment within Commvault system backed by the umbrella of the Azure security infrastructure, that's how the two sort of compliment each other. And again, it's about shared responsibility, right? We want every customer that leverages Azure to make sure that they know it's secure, it's protected. We've got a mechanism to protect your best interests. Commvault has that exact same mission statement, right? To make sure that every single element that comes into contact with their products is protected, is secure, is trustworthy. You know, I got a long lesson, long, long time ago, early in my career that says you can goof up a product feature, you can goof up the color scheme on a website but if you lose a customer's data or somebody trust, you never get it back. And so we don't take our relationships with customers very lightly. And I think our committed and joint responsibility to delight and support our customers is what has led to this partnership being so successful over the past couple of decades. >> Great, thank you, Dave. And so Manoj, I was saying earlier that data protection has become a fundamental component of your digital business stack. So that sounds good but what should customers be doing to make data protection and data management, a business value driver versus just a liability or exposure or cost factor that has to be managed? What do you think about that? >> No, and then David added earlier, right? It's no longer a liability. In fact it is you know, someone said data is the new oil, right? It is your crown jewels. You got to to start with thinking about an active data protection strategy, not you know, thinking about passive tools and looking at it in terms of a compliance or I need to keep the data around. So that's the number one part is like, how do I have something that protects all my workloads and everyone has a different pace of transformation. So unless you know, you're a company that just got created, you have environments that are on-prem, on the edge, in CoLOS, public cloud. You got you know, SaaS applications, all of those have a critical data that needs to come together. Look for breadth of data protection, something that doesn't leave your workloads behind. Siloed solutions, create a Swiss cheese that create light for the attackers to go after those gaps. You don't want to look for that, you know? And then finally trust. I mean you know, what are the pillars of trust that the solution is built on? You got to figure out how your teams can get to doing more productive things rather than patching systems. You know, making sure that the infrastructure is up. As Dave said you know, we invest a ton jointly in securing this infrastructure. Trust that and leverage that as a differentiator rather than trying to duplicate all of that. So those are some of the you know, key things. And you know, look for players who understand that hybrid is here, give you different entry points. Don't force you know, the single single mode of operation. Those are the things we have built to make it easier for our customers to have a more active data management strategy. >> Dave, Todd, I'll give you the last word we got to go but I want to hit on this notion of zero trust. It used to be a buzz word now it's mainstream. There's so much that this discussion, is it Prudentialist access? Every access is treated maybe as privileged but what does zero trust mean to you in less than a minute? >> Yeah you know, trust but verify, right? Every interaction you have with your infrastructure, with your data, with your applications and you do it at the identity level. We care about identity and we know that that's the core of how people are going to try and access infrastructure. Used to be protect the perimeter. The analogy I always use is we have locks on our houses. Now the bad guys are everywhere. They're getting inside our houses and they're not immediately taking things, they're hiding in the closet and they're popping out three weeks later before anybody knows it. And so being able to actually manage, measure, protect every interaction you have with your infrastructure and do it at the individual or application level, that's what zero trust is all about. So don't trust any interaction, make sure that you pass that authorization through with every ask. And then make sure you protect it from the inside out. >> Great stuff. Okay guys, we've got to leave it there. Thanks so much for the time today. All right next, right after a short break, we're headed into the CXL Power Panel to hear what's on the minds of the executives as it relates to data management in the digital era. Keep it right there, you're watching theCUBE. (lighthearted music)

(soft music) >> Welcome back to HPE Discover 2021, the virtual version, my name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE and we're here with Guido Appenzeller, who is the CTO of the Data Platforms Group at Intel. Guido, welcome to theCUBE, come on in. >> Aww, thanks Dave, I appreciate it. It's great to be here today. >> So I'm interested in your role at the company, let's talk about that, you're brand new, tell us a little bit about your background. What attracted you to Intel and what's your role here? >> Yeah, so I'm, I grew up with the startup ecosystem of Silicon Valley, I came from my PhD and never left. And, built software companies, worked at software companies worked at VMware for a little bit. And I think my initial reaction when the Intel recruiter called me, was like, Hey you got the wrong phone number, I'm a software guy, that's probably not who you're looking for. And, but we had a good conversation but I think at Intel, there's a realization that you need to look at what Intel builds more as this overall system from an overall systems perspective. That the software stack and then the hardware components are all getting more and more intricately linked and, you need the software to basically bridge across the different hardware components that Intel is building. So again, I was the CTO for the Data Platforms Group, so that builds the data center products here at Intel. And it's a really exciting job. And these are exciting times at Intel, with Pat, I've got a fantastic CEO at the helm. I've worked with him before at VMware. So a lot of things to do but I think a very exciting future. >> Well, I mean the, the data centers the wheelhouse of Intel, of course your ascendancy was a function of the PCs and the great volume and how you change that industry but really data centers is where, I remember the days people said, Intel will never be at the data center, it's just the toy. And of course, you're dominant player there now. So your initial focus here is really defining the vision and I'd be interested in your thoughts on the future what the data center looks like in the future where you see Intel playing a role, what are you seeing as the big trends there? Pat Gelsinger talks about the waves, he says, if you don't ride the waves you're going to end up being driftwood. So what are the waves you're driving? What's different about the data center of the future? >> Yeah, that's right. You want to surf the waves, that's the way to do it. So look, I like to look at this and sort of in terms of major macro trends, And I think that the biggest thing that's happening in the market right now is the cloud revolution. And I think we're well halfway through or something like that. And this transition from the classic, client server type model, that way with enterprises running all data centers to more of a cloud model where something is run by hyperscale operators or maybe run by an enterprise themselves of (indistinct) there's a variety of different models. but the provisioning models have changed. It's much more of a turnkey type service. And when we started out on this journey I think the, we built data centers the same way that we built them before. Although, the way to deliver IT have really changed, it's going through more of a service model and we really know starting to see the hardware diverge, the actual silicon that we need to build and how to address these use cases, diverge. And so I think one of the things that is probably most interesting for me is really to think through, how does Intel in the future build silicon that's built for clouds, like on-prem clouds, edge clouds, hyperscale clouds, but basically built for these new use cases that have emerged. >> So just a quick, kind of a quick aside, to me the definition of cloud is changing, it's evolving and it used to be this set of remote services in a hyperscale data center, it's now that experience is coming on-prem it's connecting across clouds, it's moving out to the edge it's supporting, all kinds of different workloads. How do you see that sort of evolving cloud? >> Yeah, I think, there's the biggest difference to me is that sort of a cloud starts with this idea that the infrastructure operator and the tenant are separate. And that is actually has major architectural implications, it just, this is a perfect analogy, but if I build a single family home, where everything is owned by one party, I want to be able to walk from the kitchen to the living room pretty quickly, if that makes sense. So, in my house here is actually the open kitchen, it's the same room, essentially. If you're building a hotel where your primary goal is to have guests, you pick a completely different architecture. The kitchen from your restaurants where the cooks are busy preparing the food and the dining room, where the guests are sitting, they are separate. The hotel staff has a dedicated place to work and the guests have a dedicated places to mingle but they don't overlap, typically. I think it's the same thing with architecture in the clouds. So, initially the assumption was it's all one thing and now suddenly we're starting to see like a much cleaner separation of these different areas. I think a second major influence is that the type of workloads we're seeing it's just evolving incredibly quickly, 10 years ago, things were mostly monolithic, today most new workloads are microservice based, and that has a huge impact in where CPU cycles are spent, where we need to put an accelerators, how we build silicon for that to give you an idea, there's some really good research out of Google and Facebook where they run numbers. And for example, if you just take a standard system and you run a microservice based an application but in the microservice-based architecture you can spend anywhere from I want to say 25 in some cases, over 80% of your CPU cycles just on overhead, and just on, marshaling demarshaling the protocols and the encryption and decryption of the packets and your service mesh that sits in between all of these things, that created a huge amount of overhead. So for us might have 80% go into these overhead functions really all focus on this needs to be on how do we enable that kind of infrastructure? >> Yeah, so let's talk a little bit more about workloads if we can, the overhead there's also sort of, as the software as the data center becomes software defined thanks to your good work at VMware, it is a lot of cores that are supporting that software-defined data center. And then- >> It's at VMware, yeah. >> And as well, you mentioned microservices container-based applications, but as well, AI is coming into play. And what is, AI is just kind of amorphous but it's really data-oriented workloads versus kind of general purpose ERP and finance and HCM. So those workloads are exploding, and then we can maybe talk about the edge. How are you seeing the workload mix shift and how is Intel playing there? >> I think the trends you're talking about is definitely right, and we're getting more and more data centric, shifting the data around becomes a larger and larger part of the overall workload in the data center. And AI is getting a ton of attention. Look if I talk to the most operators AI is still an emerging category. We're seeing, I'd say five, maybe 10% percent of workloads being AI is growing, they're very high value workloads. And they're very challenging workloads, but it's still a smaller part of the overall mix. Now edge is big and edge is two things, it's big and it's complicated because of the way I think about edge is it's not just one homogeneous market, it's really a collection of separate sub markets It's, very heterogeneous, it runs on a variety of different hardware. Edge can be everything from a little server, that's fanless, it's strapped to a phone, a telephone pole with an antenna on top of it, to aid a microcell, or it can be something that's running inside a car, modern cars has a small little data center inside. It can be something that runs on an industrial factory floor, the network operators, there's pretty broad range of verticals that all looks slightly different in their requirements. And, it's, I think it's really interesting, it's one of those areas that really creates opportunities for vendors like HPE, to really shine and address this heterogeneity with a broad range of solutions, very excited to work together with them in that space. >> Yeah, so I'm glad you brought HPE into the discussion, 'cause we're here at HPE Discover, I want to connect that. But so when I think about HPE strategy, I see a couple of opportunities for them. Obviously Intel is going to play in every part of the edge, the data center, the near edge and the far edge, and I gage HPE does as well with Aruba. Aruba is going to go to the far edge. I'm not sure at this point, anyway it's not yet clear to me how far, HPE's traditional server business goes to the, inside of automobiles, we'll see, but it certainly will be at the, let's call it the near edge as a consolidation point- >> Yeah. >> Et cetera and look the edge can be a race track, it could be a retail store, it could be defined in so many ways. Where does it make sense to process the data? But, so my question is what's the role of the data center in this world of edge? How do you see it? >> Yeah, look, I think in a sense what the cloud revolution is doing is that it's showing us, it leads to polarization of a classic data into edge and cloud, if that makes sense, it's splitting, before this was all mingled a little bit together, if my data centers my basement anyways, what's the edge, what's data center? It's the same thing. The moment I'm moving some workloads to the clouds I don't even know where they're running anymore then some other workloads that have to have a certain sense of locality, I need to keep closely. And there are some workloads you just can't move into the cloud. There's, if I'm generating lots of all the video data that I have to process, it's financially a completely unattractive to shift all of that, to a central location, I want to do this locally. And will I ever connect my smoke detector with my sprinkler system be at the cloud? No I won't, this stuff, if things go bad, that may not work anymore. So I need something that's that does this locally. So I think there's many reasons, why you want to keep something on premises. And I think it's a growing market, it's very exciting, we're doing some very good stuff with friends like HPE, they have the ProLiant DL, one 10 Gen10 Plus server with our latest a 3rd Generation Xeons on them the Open RAN, which is the radio access network in the telco space. HP Edgeline servers, also a 3rd Generation Xeons there're some really nice products there that I think can really help addressing enterprises, carriers and a number of different organizations, these edge use cases. >> Can you explain, you mentioned Open RAN, vRAN, should we essentially think of that as kind of the software-defined telco? >> Yeah, exactly. It's software-defined cellular. I actually, I learned a lot about that over the recent months. When I was taking these classes at Stanford, these things were still done in analog, that doesn't mean a radio signal will be processed in an analog way and digest it and today typically the radio signal is immediately digitized and all the processing of the radio signal happens digitally. And, it happens on servers, some of them HPE servers. And, it's a really interesting use case where we're basically now able to do something in a much, much more efficient way by moving it to a digital, more modern platform. And it turns out you can actually virtualize these servers and, run a number of different cells, inside the same server. And it's really complicated because you have to have fantastic real-time guarantees versus sophisticated software stack. But it's a really fascinating use case. >> A lot of times we have these debates and it's maybe somewhat academic, but I'd love to get your thoughts on it. And debate is about, how much data that is processed and inferred at the edge is actually going to come back to the cloud, most of the data is going to stay at the edge, a lot of it's not even going to be persisted. And the counter to that is, so that's sort of the negative is at the data center, but then the counter that is there going to be so much data, even a small percentage of all the data that we're going to create is going to create so much more data, back in the cloud, back in the data center. What's your take on that? >> Look, I think there's different applications that are easier to do in certain places. Look, going to a large cloud has a couple of advantages. You have a very complete software ecosystem around you, lots of different services. You'll have first, if you need very specialized hardware, if I wanted to run the bigger learning task where somebody needed a 1000 machines, and then this runs for a couple of days, and then I don't need to do that for another month or two, for that is really great. There's on demand infrastructure, having all this capability up there, at the same time it costs money to send the data up there. If I just look at the hardware cost, it's much much cheaper to build it myself, in my own data center or in the edge. So I think we'll see, customers picking and choosing what they want to do where, and that there's a role for both, absolutely. And so, I think there's certain categories. At the end of the day why do I absolutely need to have something at the edge? There's a couple of, I think, good use cases. One is, let me actually rephrase a little bit. I think it's three primary reasons. One is simply a bandwidth, where I'm saying, my video data, like I have a 100 4K video cameras, with 60 frames per second feeds, there's no way I'm going to move that into the cloud. It's just, cost prohibitive- >> Right. >> I have a hard time even getting (indistinct). There might be latency, if I need want to reliably react in a very short period of time, I can't do that in the cloud, I need to do this locally with me. I can't even do this in my data center. This has to be very closely coupled. And, then there's this idea of fade sharing. I think, if I want to make sure that if things go wrong, the system is still intact, anything that's sort of an emergency kind of a backup, an emergency type procedure, if things go wrong, I can't rely on the big good internet connection, I need to handle things, things locally, that's the smoke detector and the sprinkler system. And so for all of these, there's good reasons why we need to move things close to the edge so I think there'll be a creative tension between the two but both are huge markets. And I think there's great opportunities for HP ahead to work on all these use cases. >> Yeah, for sure, top brand is in that compute business. So before we wrap up today, thinking about your role, part of your role is a trend spotter. You're kind of driving innovation righty, surfing the waves as you said, skating to the puck, all the- >> I've got my perfect crystal ball right here, yeah I got. >> Yeah, all the cliches. (Dave chuckles) puts a little pressure on you, but, so what are some of the things that you're overseeing that you're looking towards in terms of innovation projects particularly obviously in the data center space, what's really exciting you? >> Look, there's a lot of them and I pretty much all the interesting ideas I get from talking to customers. You talk to the sophisticated customers, you try to understand the problems that they're trying to solve and they can't solve right now, and that gives you ideas to just to pick a couple, one thing what area I'm probably thinking about a lot is how can we build in a sense better accelerators for the infrastructure functions? So, no matter if I run an edge cloud or I run a big public cloud, I want to find ways how I can reduce the amount of CPU cycles I spend on microservice marshaling demarshaling, service mesh, storage acceleration and these things like that. And so well clearly, if this is a large chunk of the overall cycle budget, we need to find ways to shrink that to make this more efficient. So then I think, so this basic infrastructure function acceleration, sounds probably as unsexy as any topic would sound but I think this is actually really, really interesting area and one of the big levers we have right now in the data center. >> Yeah, I would agree Guido, I think that's actually really exciting because, you actually can pick up a lot of the wasted cycles now and that drops right to the bottom line, but please- >> Yeah, exactly. And it's kind of funny we're still measuring so much with SPEC and rates of CPU's performances, it's like, well, we may actually be measuring the wrong thing. If 80% of the cycles of my app are spent in overhead, then the speed of the CPU doesn't matter as much, it's other functions that (indistinct). >> Right. >> So that's one. >> The second big one is memory is becoming a bigger and bigger issue, and it's memory cost 'cause, memory prices, they used to sort of decline at the same rate that our core counts and then clock speeds increased, that's no longer the case. So we've run to some scaling limits, there's some physical scaling limits where memory prices are becoming stagnant. And this has become a major pain point for everybody who's building servers. So I think we need to find ways how we can leverage memory more efficiently, share memory more efficiently. We have some really cool ideas in that space that we're working on. >> Well, yeah. And Pat, let me just sorry to interrupt but Pat hinted to that and your big announcement. He talked about system on package and I think is what you used to talk about what I call disaggregated memory and better sharing of that memory resource. And that seems to be a clear benefit of value creation for the industry. >> Exactly. If this becomes a larger, if for our customers this becomes a larger part of the overall costs, we want to help them address that issue. And the third one is, we're seeing more and more data center operators that effectively power limited. So we need to reduce the overall power of systems, or maybe to some degree just figure out better ways of cooling these systems. But I think there's a lot of innovation that can be done there to both make these data centers more economical but also to make them a little more Green. Today data centers have gotten big enough that if you look at the total amount of energy that we're spending, this world as mankind, a chunk of that is going just to data center. And so if we're spending energy at that scale, I think we have to start thinking about how can we build data centers that are more energy efficient that are also doing the same thing with less energy in the future. >> Well, thank you for laying those out, you guys have been long-term partners with HP and now of course HPE, I'm sure Gelsinger is really happy to have you on board, Guido I would be and thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. >> It's great to be here and great to be at the HP show. >> And thanks for being with us for HPE Discover 2021, the virtual version, you're watching theCUBE the leader in digital tech coverage, be right back. (soft music)

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hi everyone. Welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage cube live program for re:Invent 2020. This is our Q virtual. We're not in person like we normally are. Today is the AWS public sector. Worldwide celebration day. A lot of content coming from Teresa Carlson and her team and highlighting everything. Of course, the cube channel on the re:Invent events site. Well, the content we streaming there, if you go to the description, you can click on the link and check out all the on-demand interviews. We've done hundreds of videos live before the event pre recorded as well as here live today for public sector day, I'm showing Lisa Martin co-hosts of the cube. Who's been involved in a lot of those interviews. Uh, Lisa, great to see you before we good to see you. Thanks for coming on. >>Likewise. Good to see you too, John. Glad that you're staying safe. >>Well, a lot of good action. And before we get started, I do want to put a plug out for, um, some Salesforce, big party virtual event. Uh, Salesforce is having a big party at re:Invent 2020 a virtual house party with chance the rapper performing an exclusive set with surprise celebrities and DJ in residence December 10th that's tomorrow at 5:00 PM Pacific, go to salesforce.com/big party to check out chance the rapper. Uh, I'm a big fan. Of course my kids are more fans than, uh, check out the sales report. Okay. Back to cube virtual Lisa. Great to see you. >>Likewise John. So public sector day, a lot of transformation mean re:Invent being reinvented, being virtual 500,000 registered. And so, so much has changed, but a lot also that Teresa Carlson spoke about in her keynote and this morning about the transformation across the public sector, that's really been driven by necessity with COVID. It was really impressive to hear and see all of the good things that AWS is facilitating across healthcare, government, education, state, and local. You name it. >>Yeah. The thing I love about Theresa is she's always been ever since I've known her now she's been on the cube every year, since 2013, since we've been covering re:Invent, she's always had a big, bold vision, and she's always kind of stayed on that track. And this year that was really clear out of the box on her, her leadership session. You got to think big and you got to look at the value of the data. That was the key message from her, her and her group public sector, by the way, has been highly active with the COVID pandemic. A lot of public services have been leveraging Amazon cloud to serve, uh, their, their, their people, whether it's getting them the checks for entitlements or getting them, you know, pharmacy drugs and whatnot, and helping them with the pandemic. But clearly Amazon has stepped up and helped education with, with, uh, remotes. So Theresa's team has been pretty busy. So I think that they had more time to prepare for the virtual keynote. I should've gotten chock full of more announcements. >>Yeah. And also some great examples. As you mentioned, we heard from UK biobank, some of the interviews also that have already happened on the kid that you've done showed some amazing work that AWS has helped to facilitate for school districts in Los Angeles, for example, the government of Rhode Island. And those are some of the great things cabbage, what they were able to enable Kevin's to do, to deliver small business loans of so quickly. A lot of that, I thought, I wish we're hearing more about how technology is facilitating so much. Goodness, in COVID on the news. Of course, we're hearing a lot of the challenges with online learning, but there's a lot of amazing things that AWS has been able to facilitate incredibly quickly. >>You know, one of the concerns I have with Theresa and her team years and years ago was this idea of national parks, right? You know, we have spaces where we can go visit and why isn't there a cyber version of that. And so you S you saw that progression and she'd been doing a lot of deals where they're using the cloud and donating their technology for the betterment of society. And one of the things that was, um, news today was an advancement of their open data registry, which has been kind of this open commons of, you know, health data and whatnot. And now they have all the sequencing data that's searchable, readable, uh, from the national Institute of health for DNA sequencing. So this is going to be, again, more commons, like approach is starting to see that I think this is going to be a real big trend lease. >>I think you're going to start to see the big companies have to really contribute to society in a way that we've never seen before, because they have the large scale. You can donate large compute to say research projects. So you starting to see, uh, from Teresa's team, the bubbling up of these new shared experiences around technology for the betterment of society. I think that sequencing was one, the renewable energy project. Another one, again, they're investing in women owned businesses and underrepresented minorities, and at small, medium size businesses to fund them, we saw a guy launching stuff in space that can create, you know, synthetic satellites. So you can look through clouds. This is new. I mean, this is interesting. >>It is interesting. And it actually, to your point is impactful at every level across the globe, going from when they talked about we farm creating this network of small scale of farmers, connectivity was their biggest problem. And now there's over a million. I'm sure that number it's probably even bigger. I've connected farmers due to AWS. You talked about also it's the cord 19 search, which is the expansion of their open research dataset. COVID open research data set that is only possible because of cloud computing and AWS hundreds of thousands of assets in there. Um, 200 plus open data sets for genomic research. She talked about how that's been at the of some of the things that we've seen go on so quickly with operation work speed, uh, with respect to the vaccine. So a lot of acceleration when we know public sector kind of traditionally not necessarily fast movers, but of course, as we've all said, a number of times recently necessity is the mother of invention and the speed element and the connectivity element were things that really spoke loudly to me with what Teresa said today, about the importance of extracting value from data. >>You know, when I talked to Andy Jassy and he talked about this in his keynote, the digital transformation is on full display. And the necessity being the mother of invention is a great phrase, the system and sticking because you can't hide. I mean, you have to deliver these services in the public sector, or, you know, people's lives are going to be impacted in certainly this there's death involved, right? So you have that and then you've got education. I mean, people want to see that changed quicker. There's always been conscious, Oh, education has got to be re-imagined well, guess what? There's no school open. So we got to re-imagine it now. So you get a lot of pressure, unprecedented demand. She said, Theresa said, three's a crosswind actually set onstage for education change. Um, so that's huge. Right? And then the other thing that she mentioned, I think that's going to be a big focus. >>It's not as, um, you know, headline news oriented is this whole jobs training piece. Um, that's a huge deal because the, the tsunami that hits so fast on this digital transformation, because the COVID, we're going to have a post COVID era of rapid acceleration of new skills. So people gotta get trained. So this ain't going to be the boring training programs, the guy who get kind of get better. So I think you're going to see some innovation Lisa, around how people think about delivering and constructing training programs to be much more real world thinking outside the box, you're going to start to see new things. Otherwise it's just going to be too slowly, the training right now. It's just, you know, sign up for the courseware and get a certification. Yeah, you got to do those things, but how can you get sort of cases done faster? How do you get people with the skills in their hands and virtual hands, if you will, to stand up more cloud, more AI, the pressure's there. So we can, that's going to be a huge thing to watch. >>Okay. The pressure is there. You're right. And a need is there. She talked about a lot of the demand that their customers are driving for some of the services and the education services as well that they're offering. But I'd like to point about upskilling focusing on the people, not just the people, but also the diversity inclusion. And we all know how impactful thought diversity is. So their, their dedication, their in their focus there, and also her recommendation to be bold. And I think in the education, respect was really critical. There is no time like now to move digital transformation. If education systems aren't there, then you know, it's a huge challenge and it impacts every person, every element of every family. So what they're able to do there, by focusing on the people and enabling folks to get trained faster, more resources online can only be a good, you know, Theresa >>Has always, um, has her own flare to style to her. She's incredible business woman and have such respect for her. She's been so successful. Um, but she always sends her presentations with the, kind of the, the kind of her to dues. Um, and you kind of pointed that out. So just review them with you. And I want to get your reaction. Number one, she said, you got to re-imagine and enable a digital, a digitally enabled business. Number two, identify data has an realized value and then increase your diversity. And she pointed to avis.training. Um, and that's kind of her kind of get out there and do those things so digitally enabled business, get that unrealized day to get it into work and increase your diversity. And then she had had a big party every year just said, instead of a party go out and do a random act of kindness act. So, yeah, typical, three's a flare, you know, she kind of ended it with a random act of kindness, but, but her bold vision, those are practical, uh, mandates. What's your reaction to, to that? >>I bold vision. I absolutely 100% I think right now is the time that no business can afford to be hiding under the covers. We have to be, they have to be very thoughtful and very prescriptive, but be bold. There's so much opportunity right now. We're seeing a ton of invention and innovation, John, that we've seen over the last nine months. There's a lot of COVID catalysts that we've been talking about on the cube that are really fantastic. So I think that recommendation to set a bold vision is absolutely imperative, not easy to achieve, but I think right now more than ever, it could really be what sets apart, the winners and losers of tomorrow. >>Yeah. I love it. I just say that on this final note, um, cloud and AI is really in play cloud-scale machine learning, which essentially feeds AI is all about data compute going down to the chip level, AI and software and data is critical for cloud. So really awesome keynote again, leadership session by Teresa Carlson, and there's a whole site of content available. Checkout the cube page, click down on the main page. You'll see that description. You'll see a link to the re:Invent page and check on public sector. A lot of great content. Lisa final question for us to kind of close out this keynote leadership session analysis here on all sector day. I want to get your take on, um, the interviews you've done with the Amazon folks and partners and customers. What are the themes that have been boiling out of those? What have you have been hearing? What's your take and observation of the common pattern? >>You know, given the fact that we haven't all been able to be together at my last cube event in person was reinvent 2019. And we're so used to having, you know, three, four days of wall-to-wall coverage, two sides, being able to have those close personal conversations with our guests this year really did a phenomenal job of recreating that same experience, digitally there's tremendous amount of innovation happening. I think that was the one thing that really jumped out at me, the speed with which it's happening, how so many different types businesses have pivoted, not once, but again and again, and again, as times are changing and how even I yesterday I interviewed Boone, supersonic CEO, some of the things that they're facilitating to get commercial supersonic flight back that fully cloud and AI machine learning can do that. There was no stoppage of innovation this year. In fact, that actually got faster. And I think that was a resounding theme and a lot of positivity from the guests. >>You know, the cue, his business was to go to events and extract the signal from the noise. Guess what? There's no physical events. We have the cube virtual. We have pivoted. We are now in our eighth, ninth month of cube virtual. It's been a new model. We've gotten more interviews, more people can just click into the cube virtual. We have more virtual sets, the Cuban virtualized Lisa. Although I miss them in real life as a whole new ballgame for us, >>It is a whole new ball game. And it also provides a lot of opportunities for businesses to get their messaging out and connect and engage with their audience, which is important. >>Well, I miss real life. I miss everybody out there. I wish we could be there in person. Uh, the world will stay hybrid. I think with virtual, I think this has been a great format. There's been some great benefits, but we want to be in person. I want you on the desk with us. So, and all the folks out there I wish we could see. And then we'll see you next year. Thanks everyone for watching the key. This is our keynote analysis and leadership analysis of the worldwide public sector. Teresa Carlson, Kenya. I'm John from Lisa Martin. Thanks for watching.

>>Bye from San Francisco. It's the cube covering RSA conference, 2020 San Francisco brought to you by Silicon angle media. >>Hey, welcome back. Everyone's keeps coverage here in San Francisco at the Moscone center for RSA conference 2020 I'm John, your host, as cybersecurity goes to the next generation as the new cloud scale, cyber threats are out there, the real impact a company's business and society will be determined by the industry. This technology and the people that a cube alumni here, caramel Jaffer, SVP, senior vice president of strategy and corporate development for iron net. Welcome back. Thanks to Shawn. Good to be here. Thanks for having so iron net FC general Keith Alexander and you got to know new CEO of there. Phil Welsh scaler and duo knows how to scale up a company. He's right. Iron is doing really well. The iron dome, the vision of collaboration and signaling. Congratulations on your success. What's a quick update? >> Well look, I mean, you know, we have now built the capability to share information across multiple companies, multiple industries with the government in real time at machine speed. >>Really bringing people together, not just creating collected security or clip to defense, but also collaborating real time to defend one another. So you're able to divide and conquer Goliath, the enemy the same way they come after you and beat them at their own game. >> So this is the classic case of offense defense. Most corporations are playing defense, whack-a-mole, redundant, not a lot of efficiencies, a lot of burnout. Exactly. Not a lot of collaboration, but everyone's talking about the who the attackers are and collaborating like a team. Right? And you guys talk about this mission. Exactly. This is really the new way to do it. It has, the only way it works, >> it is. And you know, you see kids doing it out there when they're playing Fortnite, right? They're collaborating in real time across networks, uh, to, you know, to play a game, right? You can imagine that same construct when it comes to cyber defense, right? >>There's no reason why one big company, a second big company in a small company can't work together to identify all the threats, see that common threat landscape, and then take action on it. Trusting one another to take down the pieces they have folk to focus on and ultimately winning the battle. There's no other way a single company is gonna be able defend itself against a huge decency that has virtually unlimited resources and virtually unlimited human capital. And you've got to come together, defend across multiple industries, uh, collectively and collaboratively. >> Do you mean, we talked about this last time and I want to revisit this and I think it's super important. I think it's the most important story that's not really being talked about in the industry. And that is that we were talking last time about the government protects businesses. If someone dropped troops on the ground in your neighborhood, the government would protect you digitally. >>That's not happening. So there's really no protection for businesses. Do they build their own militia? Do they build their own army? Who was going to, who's going to be their heat shield? So this is a big conversation and a big, it brings a question. The role of the government. We're going to need a digital air force. We're going to need a digital army, Navy, Navy seals. We need to have that force, and this has to be a policy issue, but in the short term, businesses and individuals are sitting out there being attacked by sophisticated mission-based teams of hackers and nation States, right? Either camouflaging or hiding, but attacking still. This is a huge issue. What's going on? Are people talking about this in D C well, >> John, look not enough. People are talking about it, right? And forget DC. We need to be talking about here, out here in the Silicon Valley with all these companies here at the RSA floor and bring up the things you're bringing up because this is a real problem we're facing as a nation. >>The Russians aren't coming after one company, one state. They're coming after our entire election infrastructure. They're coming after us as a nation. The Chinese maybe come after one company at a time, but their goal is to take our electoral properties, a nation, repurpose it back home. And when the economic game, right, the Iranians, the North Koreans, they're not focused on individual actors, but they are coming after individual actors. We can't defend against those things. One man, one woman, one company on an Island, one, one agency, one state. We've got to come together collectively, right? Work state with other States, right? If we can defend against the Russians, California might be really good at it. Rhode Island, small States can be real hard, defends against the Russians, but if California, Rhode Island come together, here's the threats. I see. Here's what it's. You see share information, that's great. Then we collaborate on the defense and work together. >>You take these threats, I'll take those threats and now we're working as a team, like you said earlier, like those kids do when they're playing fortnight and now we're changing the game. Now we're really fighting the real fight. >> You know, when I hear general Keith Alexander talking about his vision with iron net and what you guys are doing, I'm inspired because it's simply put, we have a mission to protect our nation, our people, and a good businesses, and he puts it into kind of military, military terms, but in reality, it's a simple concept. Yeah, we're being attacked, defend and attack back. Just basic stuff. But to make it work as the sharing. So I got to ask you, I'm first of all, I love the, I love what he has, his vision. I love what you guys are doing. How real are we? What's the progression? >>Where are we on the progress bar of that vision? Well, you know, a lot's changed to the last year and a half alone, right? The threats gotten a lot, a lot more real to everybody, right? Used to be the industry would say to us, yeah, we want to share with the government, but we want something back for, right. We want them to show us some signal to today. Industry is like, look, the Chinese are crushing us out there, right? We can beat them at a, at some level, but we really need the governor to go do its job too. So we'll give you the information we have on, on an anonymized basis. You do your thing. We're going to keep defending ourselves and if you can give us something back, that's great. So we've now stood up in real time of DHS. We're sharing with them huge amounts of data about what we're seeing across six of the top 10 energy companies, some of the biggest banks, some of the biggest healthcare companies in the country. >>Right? In real time with DHS and more to come on that more to come with other government agencies and more to come with some our partners across the globe, right? Partners like those in Japan, Singapore, Eastern Europe, right? Our allies in the middle East, they're all the four lenses threat. We can bring their better capability. They can help us see what's coming at us in the future because as those enemies out there testing the weapons in those local areas. I want to get your thoughts on the capital markets because obviously financing is critical and you're seeing successful venture capital formulas like forge point really specialized funds on cyber but not classic industry formation sectors. Like it's not just security industry are taking a much more broader view because there's a policy implication is that organizational behavior, this technology up and down the stack. So it's a much broad investment thesis. >>What's your view of that? Because as you do, you see that as a formula and if so, what is this new aperture or this new lens of investing to be successful in funding? Companies will look, it's really important what companies like forge point are doing. Venture capital funds, right? Don Dixon, Alberta Pez will land. They're really innovating here. They've created a largest cybersecurity focused fund. They just closed the recently in the world, right? And so they really focus on this industry. Partners like, Kleiner Perkins, Ted Schlein, Andrea are doing really great work in this area. Also really important capital formation, right? And let's not forget other funds. Ron Gula, right? The founder of tenable started his own fund out there in DC, in the DMV area. There's a lot of innovation happening this country and the funding on it's critical. Now look, the reality is the easy money's not going to be here forever, right? >>It's the question is what comes when that inevitable step back. We don't. Nobody likes to talk about it. I said the guy who who bets on the other side of the craps game in Vegas, right? You don't wanna be that guy, but let's be real. I mean that day will eventually come. And the question is how do you bring some of these things together, right? Bring these various pieces together to really create long term strategies, right? And that's I think what's really innovative about what Don and Alberto are doing is they're building portfolio companies across a range of areas to create sort of an end to end capability, right? Andrea is doing things like that. Ted's doing stuff like that. It's a, that's really innovation. The VC market, right? And we're seeing increased collaboration VC to PE. It's looking a lot more similar, right? And now we're seeing innovative vehicles like stacks that are taking some of these public sort of the reverse manner, right? >>There's a lot of interests. I've had to be there with Hank Thomas, the guys chief cyber wrenches. So a lot of really cool stuff going on in the financing world. Opportunities for young, smart entrepreneurs to really move out in this field and to do it now. And money's still silver. All that hasn't come as innovation on the capital market side, which is awesome. Let's talk about the ecosystem in every single market sector that I've been over, my 30 year career has been about a successful entrepreneurship check, capital two formation of partnerships. Okay. You're on the iron net, front lines here. As part of that ecosystem, how do you see the ecosystem formula developing? Is it the same kind of model? Is it a little bit different? What's your vision of the ecosystem? Look, I mean partnerships channel, it's critical to every cyber security company. You can't scale on your own. >>You've got to do it through others, right? I was at a CrowdStrike event the other day. 91% of the revenue comes from the channel. That's an amazing number. You think about that, right? It's you look at who we're trying to talk about partnering with. We're talking about some of the big cloud players. Amazon, Microsoft, right? Google, right on the, on the vendor side. Pardon me? Splunk crashes, so these big players, right? We want to build with them, right? We want to work with them because there's a story to tell here, right? When we were together, the AECOS through self is defendant stronger. There's no, there's no anonymity here, right? It's all we bring a specialty, you bring specialty, you work together, you run out and go get the go get the business and make companies safer. At the end of the day, it's all about protecting the ecosystem. What about the big cloud player? >>Cause he goes two big mega trends. Obviously cloud computing and scale, right? Multi-cloud on the horizon, hybrids, kind of the bridge between single public cloud and multi-cloud and then AI you've got the biggies are generally will be multiple generations of innovation and value creation. What's your vision on the impact of the big waves that are coming? Well, look, I mean cloud computing is a rate change the world right? Today you can deploy capability and have a supercomputer in your fingertips in in minutes, right? You can also secure that in minutes because you can update it in real time. As the machine is functioning, you have a problem, take it down, throw up a new virtual machine. These are amazing innovations that are creating more and more capability out there in industry. It's game changing. We're happy, we're glad to be part of that and we ought to be helping defend that new amazing ecosystem. >>Partnering with companies like Microsoft. They didn't AWS did, you know, you know, I'm really impressed with your technical acumen. You've got a good grasp of the industry, but also, uh, you have really strong on the societal impact policy formulation side of government and business. So I want to get your thoughts for the young kids out there that are going to school, trying to make sense of the chaos that's going on in the world, whether it's DC political theater or the tech theater, big tech and in general, all of the things with coronavirus, all this stuff going on. It's a, it's a pretty crazy time, but a lot of work has to start getting done that are new problems. Yeah. What is your advice as someone who's been through the multiple waves to the young kids who have to figure out what half fatigue, what problems are out there, what things can people get their arms around to work on, to specialize in? >>What's your, what's your thoughts and expertise on that? Well, John, thanks for the question. What I really like about that question is is we're talking about what the future looks like and here's what I think the future looks like. It's all about taking risks. Tell a lot of these young kids out there today, they're worried about how the world looks right? Will America still be strong? Can we, can we get through this hard time we're going through in DC with the world challenges and what I can say is this country has never been stronger. We may have our own troubles internally, but we are risk takers and we always win. No matter how hard it gets them out of how bad it gets, right? Risk taking a study that's building the American blood. It's our founders came here taking a risk, leaving Eagle to come here and we've succeeded the last 200 years. >>There is no question in my mind that trend will continue. So the young people out there, I don't know what the future has to hold. I don't know if the new tape I was going to be, but you're going to invent it. And if you don't take the risks, we're not succeed as a nation. And that's what I think is key. You know, most people worry that if they take too many risks, they might not succeed. Right? But the reality is most people you see around at this convention, they all took risks to be here. And even when they had trouble, they got up, they dust themselves off and they won. And I believe that everybody in this country, that's what's amazing about the station is we have this opportunity to, to try, if we fail to get up again and succeed. So fail fast, fail often, and crush it. >>You know, some of the best innovations have come from times where you had the cold war, you had, um, you had times where, you know, the hippie revolution spawn the computer. So you, so you have the culture of America, which is not about regulation and stunting growth. You had risk-taking, you had entrepreneurship, but yet enough freedom for business to operate, to solve new challenges, accurate. And to me the biggest imperative in my mind is this next generation has to solve a lot of those new questions. What side of the street is the self driving cars go on? I see bike lanes in San Francisco, more congestion, more more cry. All this stuff's going on. AI could be a great enabler for that. Cyber security, a direct threat to our country and global geopolitical landscape. These are big problems. State and local governments, they're not really tech savvy. They don't really have a lot ID. >>So what do they do? How do they serve their, their constituents? You know, look John, these are really important and hard questions, but we know what has made technology so successful in America? What's made it large, successful is the governor state out of the way, right? Industry and innovators have had a chance to work together and do stuff and change the world, right? You look at California, you know, one of the reasons California is so successful and Silicon Valley is so dynamic. You can move between jobs and we don't enforce non-compete agreements, right? Because you can switch jobs and you can go to that next higher value target, right? That shows the value of, you know, innovation, creating innovation. Now there's a real tendency to say, when we're faced with challenges, well, the government has to step in and solve that problem, right? The Silicon Valley and what California's done, what technology's done is a story about the government stayed out and let innovators innovate, and that's a real opportunity for this nation. >>We've got to keep on down that path, even when it seemed like the easier answer is, come on in DC, come on in Sacramento, fix this problem for us. We have demonstrated as a country that Americans and individual are good at solve these problems. We should allow them to do that and innovate. Yeah. One of my passions is to kind of use technology and media to end communities to get to the truth faster. A lot of, um, access to smart minds out there, but young minds, young minds, uh, old minds, young minds though. It's all there. You gotta get the data out and that's going to be a big thing. That's the, one of the things that's changing is the dark arts of smear campaigns. The story of Bloomberg today, Oracle reveals funding for dark money, group biting, big tech internet accountability projects. Um, and so the classic astroturfing get the Jedi contract, Google WASU with Java. >>So articles in the middle of all this, but using them as an illustrative point. The lawyers seem to be running the kingdom right now. I know you're an attorney, so I'm recovering, recovering. I don't want to be offensive, but entrepreneurship cannot be stifled by regulation. Sarbanes Oxley slowed down a lot of the IPO shifts to the latest stage capital. So regulation, nest and every good thing. But also there's some of these little tactics out in the shadows are going to be revealed. What's the new way to get this straightened out in your mind? We'll look, in my view, the best solution for problematic speech or pragmatic people is more speech, right? Let's shine a light on it, right? If there are people doing shady stuff, let's talk about it's an outfit. Let's have it out in the open. Let's fight it out. At the end of the day, what America's really about is smart ideas. >>Winning. It's a, let's get the ideas out there. You know, we spent a lot of time, right now we're under attack by the Russians when it comes to our elections, right? We spent a lot of time harping at one another, one party versus another party. The president versus that person. This person who tells committee for zap person who tells committee. It's crazy when the real threat is from the outside. We need to get past all that noise, right? And really get to the next thing which is we're fighting a foreign entity on this front. We need to face that enemy down and stop killing each other with this nonsense and turn the lights on. I'm a big believer of if something can be exposed, you can talk about it. Why is it happening exactly right. This consequences with that reputation, et cetera. You got it. >>Thanks for coming on the queue. Really appreciate your insight. Um, I want to just ask you one final question cause you look at, look at the industry right now. What is the most important story that people are talking about and what is the most important story that people should be talking about? Yeah. Well look, I think the one story that's out there a lot, right, is what's going on in our politics, what's going on in our elections. Um, you know, Chris Krebs at DHS has been out here this week talking a lot about the threat that our elections face and the importance about States working with one another and States working with the federal government to defend the nation when it comes to these elections in November. Right? We need to get ahead of that. Right? The reality is it's been four years since 2016 we need to do more. That's a key issue going forward. What are the Iranians North Koreans think about next? They haven't hit us recently. We know what's coming. We got to get ahead of that. I'm going to come again at a nation, depending on staff threat to your meal. Great to have you on the QSO is great insight. Thanks for coming on sharing your perspective. I'm John furrier here at RSA in San Francisco for the cube coverage. Thanks for watching.

>> From the Sales Force tower in downtown San Francisco. It's the cube covering a censure Tech vision twenty nineteen brought to you by Silicon Angle media. >> Hey, welcome back. You're ready, Jeff. Freak >> here with the cue. We're >> in the center. Innovation hub, downtown San Francisco Salesforce >> Tower. The party is just getting started and you can see >> behind us. Had a ribboned coat ribbon cutting ceremony this morning. We're excited here for the Century Technology Vision awards given later today. But we're excited of our next cast. First >> time on the Cube. Ashley Miller. She's the director of Innovation West Region for centuries, actually. Welcome. >> Thank you so much. Glad to be here. >> So all these toys are for you to play with. >> They they are there so many interesting things to play with your so many incredible people. It's an incredible place to be. >> So it's a great aggregation of kind of a bunch of satellite offices. You've got three stories of really kind of active, engaging labs. I wonder if you could say I guess she had a soft opening a little while ago. Tonight was the heart opening. What are some of the ways that customers actually come in and use this facility? >> Yeah, way actually have five floors. We have the thirty first through thirty fifth floor. Five entire floors with several of those floors dedicated solely Teo, innovating with our clients and collaborating and co creating with our clients. So this is the official launch The Big Party, opening us officially with the ribbon cutting. But Way did have a soft launch over the summer, and in fact, we've been hosting many clients >> each week. >> It's it's really incredible that demand is quite high. People are very eager to come in and explore and learn as well as define strategies and actually co create solutions here with the experts. So it's it's exciting, >> so help. So they come in small teams, big teams. They come for a day a week. What are some of, you know, kind of the standard offerings? If you will t come and learn about invasion >> all of the above. We host clients as well as, you know, partners in the community, uh, students and educational groups. People who want to come in and learn about emerging technologies and their potential impact to business to society. A cz well as multiday and multiweek sessions where we're actually rode mapping solutions, building new ideas together and actually co creating prototypes and solutions to solve those those challenges >> right. So Paul, talk bitterly about your innovation, architecture's so everybody wants to know how to innovate, especially in a big company. It's it's not necessarily easy, and you guys have a bunch of assets in play. And then, as I understand it, the hub is the location where you bring all those assets under one roof. >> That's exactly right. This hub is a flagship hub where we have every element of our innovation architecture represented. So it's center has this architecture to help both ourselves innovate as well as our clients and our partners. So clients and partners can come here and access the incredible breadth of our experts, designers, engineers, builders. So here in our flagship hub, we have teammates from our research organization that's offering points of view and helping others understand. What does the future look like? We have teammates from our labs are R and D organization that's actually looking at these cutting edge technologies, quantum computing, connected devices, artificial intelligence and understanding, and using these technologies, developing prototypes to test and learn and understand their potential value. Then we have teammates who can actually build prototypes and solutions. Both connected digital devices as well as physical devices way have teammates in our ventures group who are partnering with the ecosystem of universities as well start ups as well as big ecosystem platform partners and bringing those teammates in and using their solutions to help procreate and ninety eight new opportunities for our clients. And then, of course, within our innovation architecture, we also have our delivery centers. So once you identify really game changing opportunity on, you've tested it and you understand, and it's a viable solution. Well, then you can scale it more cost efficiently through our delivery centers, >> right? So I know it might be asking you like to pick your favorite kid, but but but share. I mean, what is a Woody one or two of your kind of favorite things? That that is here in this innovation hub, that you just think it's just cool beyond compare. >> It is asking me to pick my favorite kid. There's so many incredible things here, but I can tell you what we have on display tonight. We have Mary Hamilton, the head of our labs organization, along with Theresa Tongue is a managing director within our labs and room on Chowdhry, who leads a practice of ethical, eh? I talking about the future of human and robot interaction. What does that mean for teams when they're augmented by robots? How do you do that in a fair way and in an ethical way, so that you're using the humans potential as well as the robot's potential. We have Mike Reading the head of our ventures team. We have him here, along with some of our teammates, from research Justin hers egg. And they're They're talking about the power of Blockchain to create transparency and accountability within supply chains. A CZ well is talking about some of the power of of some of the startups we're working with, like one Cuban quantum computing start up, which we partnered with Bio Gen. The healthcare company. Toe Actually use quantum computing. Teo. Increase the speed of drug discovery. It's really incredible. It takes on average in the industry. It takes ten years and a billion dollars to bring an average drug to market, and they're hoping they can speed this up significantly with with quantum computing. So way have stations on display where you can actually go inside a quantum computer where we'll use immersive technologies. And walking inside, you can actually understand and see what are the powers of quantum mechanics that enable quantum computing? Let's >> see, we >> have way have incredible leaders. So those were those >> were just going long >> so I could keep down. >> I love it. And we keep hearing about the incredible technologists that you have here that something like, I don't remember fifteen hundred out of the six thousand patents you've you've had are coming out of the people that work in this facility. >> It's it's unparalleled the talent that is in this building. Um, sometimes when I walk around, I can almost see the, you know, quantum physics coming out of their brains. They're just incredible. The talent that is here and the talent that we have accessible to our partners about TTO learn from a CZ Wells to partner with and build because these teammates, they're they're working on cutting edge things. And they're looking for partners to explore the validity of these new concepts. So a lot of times we're partnering with clients were both putting some skin in the game to test these ideas on DH. It's It's a really exciting place to be at the intersection of business and technology ideation and building solutions. >> Right? And you're not just doing it just for your clients to he had city and county San Francisco represented this morning at the ribbon cutting and really she talked about and John talked about earlier, you know, being an active participant in the community, and that's a really important piece of the >> puzzle. It is an important piece of the puzzle, and we're really passionate about being a part of the San Francisco community and helping to give back in our community as well as globally. So globally, we run a tech for good program. Where were you applying these emerging technologies to help benefit societies using things like Blockchain to make logistics distribution better and more trustworthy For companies that are delivering food? Teo indeed Populations things like using artificial intelligence built on top of Microsoft cognitive services help the blind to see doing these things. They're actually giving back to the world's population as well as our local population. Just in the last week, we hosted a group of young elementary school students coming in tow learn coding basics we're hosting. Last week we hosted one hundred students from an MBA program abroad. So we're often hosting students, clients, partners, startups. A few weeks back, we hosted a large healthtech challenge, which was really exciting. We had sea levels from some of our health companies. Come in tow, actually judge start ups from the Bay Area and to explore how those startups could tweak and refine their value statement and then explore opportunities to use those startups within the judge's organizations. So So it's a really exciting way that we're finding that being professionally generous, it pays it, tees up opportunities for centuries for our partners, way learn, they learn. And this hub is a powerful place of collaboration, >> right? What a great asset that you have to bring to bear. It's a It's a terrific story. Well, actually, thank you for taking a few minutes of your time. His party is a big part for you in the team, so I will let you get back to it. And again, Thanks for sitting down. Thank you so much. Alright, she's >> asking. Jeff, if you're watching the Cube, we're downtown San Francisco. Salesforce Tower at Thehe Century Innovation Hub. Grand opening. Thanks for watching. See you next time.

>> Hello everyone, I'm John Furrier cohost, founder Silicon Angle media, we are here in our Palo Alto studios for cube conversation with your Juergen  Linder, who's the senior vice president of Oracle SaaS. You're getting great. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming in. Appreciate, uh, the time senior vice president of ERP, SaaS, you handling all the business aspects of the Oracle cloud is correct. And you'll lots happening. What's the big, the big story right now? >> Well, here at OpenWorld, it's, it's a little bit of a kid in a candy to your point, I do think it's fantastic that we can store. I mean, showcase our innovation capacity. What we have really done and you're going to see most of those announcements are around how we pervasively infuse emerging technology into our product lines. So not just a sidecar concept, but productizing out use cases where customers can reap an immediate business benefit as of day one. So allow me maybe to plow through some of those. There is a lot of it, um, what's happening and one of the big ones is certainly around cloud ERP. If it's a huge investment for us, we'd like to think it's the most strategic SaaS investment you will ever do. From that perspective. We're very committed to make sure that the emerging technology is applied for business impact. What I mean with that is take examples such as, um, intelligent payments. So imagine you have a cash surplus all of a sudden, which is a great position to be in, but two, how do you allocate it to strategically cultivate supplier relationships based off in the moment data based on machine learning suggestions. Think about the change that we're seeing out there in terms of business models. I mean product as a service is a completely different model in which our companies need to operate. So this entire motion of shipping transactionally into going into a service provider model is huge for a lot of companies and oftentimes they have multiple business models to cater to. So big announcement, this open world is subscription management, which is a unique offering where we have really plowed together the combined strengths of our customer experience cloud to handle seamlessly the customer facing interactions. So sales, service, marketing type of pieces. But teamed up with our ERP offering to really have all of the billing, the renewal cycles, the um, revenue recognition seamlessly solved in one offering. So big announcement for us. >> So on the subscription management is that for the ERP years at Oracle Cross, all oracle portfolio products are specifically ERP. >> It's both actually, it's, it spans the customer experience piece, but it's also natively embedded into the Oracle ERP cloud to have it a seamless experience because we don't think that you can solve subscription management in isolation. Oftentimes you feel vendors who does it on the customer experience side, but then you'd still need to have the backend features to make sure that you can deliver on the promise that you do understand the customer intimately, that you could do effective up cross sell and handle the renewal cycles. Constantly tap into the customer sentiment to see if they're happy and just see them grow. So we'd like to think it's really a combined effort between what we have as customer experience and the ERP side >> I mean, this brings up a great point because I think you're hitting on the major trend that's happening around Oracle open world, certainly in the industry right now that is integrating a lot of different functions. I mean ERP, they want knows ERP was lifted the days that's really critical software and it powers the business. It's not going anywhere. What people are concerned about, how do I extend the capability of the data that I have? Yes, and cross connected so that it's seamless, so I want to just go a little slow on the subscriber management thing. So what you're saying is you upgraded subscriber management so that the customer can manage their piece of their business without mangling or changing or tweaking any of are taking me through that. I was at. How are they rolled that out? What's the use case of that >> I think this is important to hit on the key point which is data mean. specifically? They give an example. What Oracle always has been synonymous with is owning, managing and securing the world's data. We'd like to live on that heritage for a while because we think it's fundamentally differentiating. If you want to bring those emerging technologies to life for outcomes, um, since we're covering all lines of businesses in the cloud and are ready to go today, it brings us into a very unique position to really stitch together data points very elegantly across a unified data platform, right? Where data travel seamlessly. Because if you think about a subscription business, there's so many aspects that goes into that. Think about conducting, collecting sensory data based on Iot. >> A lot of databases are out there and you have multiple databases you're hitting. >> Oh absolutely. So we want to make sure that obviously any data that we're collecting about the usage of a given product allows us to find tune the business model for subscription. If we have the customer or if the company made a decision to go into a subscription model, it's huge from a revenue recognition perspective, how do you report that out? It has to do with how do you service the customer constantly predict and anticipate the very next move four up and cross selling type of mechanism. So it's a big movement. >> Customer intimacy used to be a cx problem, now it's an integrated data problem and it's interesting because, you know when I broke into the business when I was graduated from college, the word data processing was a department when you guys were in the database business mean data processing now is a core competency that's not limited to one siloed system or one abstract system like an ERP or cx. It's managed to everything. So you have to do data processing because that's the value. So if, if that's the case and more data is coming to the marketplace, you need machine learning, you need to have the tools. So I gotta ask you Oracle Open world, you guys are doing some announcements around Ai. What's the impact to ai particular or using or managing whether it's symbolic systems, which is a little bit different in ai reasoning. Is is a thing processing and reasoning around the data now you need ai for that. So what are you guys announcing around ERP, oracle cloud and ai? >> So it's fundamentally that, to your point, I had the pleasure of implementing ERP system at customer side on the sis side. I had problems or challenges in my business career to bring them to life on the software development side, but fundamentals have stayed the same. You need to have data consistency and as a complete view of the business. Now, to your point, I'd like to think that machine learning and emerging technologies at large provide a new canvas on how you can create and look at every single business process as we know it so you see us talk about it because I'm all about intelligent process automation in the ERP context. What that means is if you take a typical company, about 85 percent is spent on keeping the lights on, closing the books, doing all of the in hyphened, mundane but necessary stuff, and 15 to 20 percent is typically dedicated towards innovation of new business model. Serving customers with new business model or just being the change agent that typically the finance function wants to be. I mean, there's a reason, for example, why Kraft Heinz had a cfo or has still has a CSR, was 29 years old. They're not hired necessarily for the seniority they hired for the change ability. >> The culture change is both business culture and there's also tech culture that culture cloud, native agile data at the center of the value proposition. Now culturals is about expectations I I need it relevant. I mean it's a commitment problem to needed. I need it fast. solve too as well on both business skills gap and also technical. >> I mean to your  point, I mean kid in a candy store is like the the best way I can describe it. I think every single business process and in the nineties we had this big theme of business process reengineering. You know that I'd like it comes back on steroids right now because you can simply look at every single business process once again and see where the human element and the machine or a robotic element can simply provide superior outcomes. Think about use cases of detecting fraudulent spend more easily like machines are simply better at that. We have to admit that if we can liberate the human potential at large and tap into the ingenuity by liberating them from the mundane and shifted you towards value at, that's huge. So our commitment of infusing machine learning and ai constantly in every single business process and learning from your decision like John, if you have the same workflow and you approved it 99 times, the system should start taking a hint. It doesn't mean hard coding and rewiring the work flow. The system automatically should learn from your behavior. So this is what we talk about, intelligent process automation. It also extends into what we call intelligent process performance management where our entERPrise performance management cloud is very sophisticated and analytical capabilities, but now it's taking it to the next level of prediction, learning, anticipating, constantly and suggesting actionable results. So a lot of things and chatbots for expenses is the entire communication with the system. It's just branded in a way where I say, when is the last time you had an intelligent conversation with your ERP system? A lot of people would say never. >> Well, I think people would love to get more value out of the data. And certainly the work that ERP systems have done as foundational mechanisms or plumbing or infrastructure and software is critical. Data's in there, right? So, yes. But the interesting topic that's becoming apparent and Oracle, you've, you guys lived this and you know at, uh, your other career at sap client server had a great growth when heterogeneous network started to appear, correct? So heterogeneous is a word that's not just a customer problem, it's an oracle opportunity as well because you have to be heterogeneous in an mov yourself. >> Absolutely. >> Then that's the data is the bridge of your internal system. So it's not just here's your oracle, between all of that. So now you have heterogenaity around all go buy some European, deploy it in the customer's heterogeneous environment. You gotta have a heterogeneous integration than Oracle into a cloud environment for the customer, makes it more complex, but the data becomes the key asset. >> Data is the key asset. And this is why we took decisive steps about a decade ago to really rewrite from scratch for the cloud. So we're really not trying to get away with hosting or legacy into the cloud because I think it's a fundamentally flawed strategy, right? So we also learned from what I call typical SaaS, one point old patterns where certain vendors tackled one business problem in isolation, but then it's upon the customer once again to stitch it painfully together with all of the risk it has like security risks, um, data silos that you so desperately trying to run away from comeback on steroids in the age of multicloud. Right? So it's oftentimes what we're seeing is that tactical cloud adoption, our customer and prospect conversations give way to more strategic longevity type of SaaSs consideration. And this is where we think we have a great story to tell by having everything in the cloud. Every line of business re architected for the cloud, but then of course the entire stack So of course we want to make sure that everything that comes out of Oracle depth to support it. works best stitched together. But by all means, it's really that we acknowledged that customers have heterogeneous environments that were open to connect, extend any type of starting point a customer might have. >> So one of the things I've been impressed with Oracle and the previous announcements is your affinity towards some of the emerging tech you guys aren't afraid to, to run at a new environment. And Larry Ellis was classical old with Larry. We'll wait until he sees clear And because you got a big business, you've got zillions of customers, visibility that he'll run hard at it and it's been fun to watch. uh, and you're modernizing and real time. But the big change that's on the market is the blockchain. You guys got some announcements happening around here at Oracle Open? Correct. And you made an announcement earlier what new things are coming out with blockchain because blockchain actually is a database model. It's a little bit decentralized, but it has great use cases, low hanging use case, independent of all the hype and uncertainty around cryptocurrency. But certainly blockchain is an enabling. Technology will impact your world. What new things you announcing here? >> For me, that's likely the most fundamentally disruptive technology heading our way. To your point, still a little bit at the infancy compared to other emerging technologies, but the profoundness of change with this new trust fabric is just massive for every single business process as we know it. Um, so when we discussed with customers, it's really that we try to give our customers a headstart for immediate business impact, meaning we're shipping applications, productized use cases. So the announcements this week are really around intelligent track and trace, making sure that any given point in time, you know exactly where in the supply chain you're product is, what are the handover points all documented seamlessly. You see an announcement around what we call the intelligent cold chain, big topic for some pharmaceutical companies, for example, or food and beverage, right? To have refrigerated products where you need to prove that they never surpassed the temperature threshold. For example, in the supply chain document that via supplied via block chain, we have, um, what we call warranty and usage as a use case. Just simplifying the settlements, the claim processes for any type of things here. So we have multiple more that are in the labs right now. Take an hcm use case, for example, where everyone of us had some educational experience, right? And we want to make sure that the hiring process becomes as if, uh, did you go to the school, you said you went, you know, your supply chain, you know, your journey in life as a, as a value chain. I mean the first universities are actually posting the certificates, unblocked chain so that you have this immutable record and the entire vetting of credentials in the hiring process, which is so cost intensive time intensive could be shaved off seeming as >> One of the things I'm personally passionate about and then release our video businesses that one of the big problems that's going to becoming great fast as deep face tampering with video. One of the things that we're thinking about it, how to put our videos on the blockchain to look at whether it's been tampered or not. Absolutely. Because you know, you can take this video. Could you say something that because this big, this legit problem was verified. So again, this is a verification about it and people want to know, did the produce come from that? Certain lawyers production, certainly manufacturing operations is Qa issues. This is real. These are real world examples. This is not like some pie in the sky hyped up. Tulip craze >> Funny you mentioned that we actually have an innovation panel on Tuesday afternoon where we have, for example, one of the largest food manufacturers in the world building on our blockchain cloud services. Those types of use cases and just amazing what we're seeing in terms of the impact emerging technologies can have and quite frankly business impact we're going to see out of that. >> I think I personally think, and I'd love to get your reaction to this because it's something that we talk a lot on the cube allowed in is good feedback on is that you're going to have to explain yourself and have verification because there's a lot of black box processes that have to be an unexposed because people want to know the transparency of how things move through the system. Whether it's, whether it's fruit, whether it's videos, whether it's someone's resume or credentials, reputation. These are new ways that needs to be explained by algorithms. Yes, so now the black box is going to be opened up. This is an opportunity. It's a threat to a lot of people, so you're on. Do you agree with that idea that there'll be soon things will be explained and be able to be inspected eventually. >> Transparency is huge and as to your point, I don't think you can hide a lot of things going forward anymore, so everything becomes more transparent, but with enabling technology such as blockchain for example, they also become immutable into dispute to your ability to to, to, to, to alter the information flow becomes less so. It's both. I'm very enlightening in terms of having transparency, speeding up business processes and to your point also understanding the origin where something originated. We have a lot lineage, for example, as another blockchain applicant. Live lineage, you mean like production lots, production loads, for example in provenance, right? To really understand the genealogy example that understand the genealogy as to where, for example, certain parts of your supply chain really come from. Do they come from countries for example, where you shouldn't be doing business So it's all those types of things where you can always prove like maybe the with? Right. >> Chinese put a chip on a board and puts it in Amazon Apple Data Center. That's a supply chain concern. But I totally wouldn't you love to know where that motherboard is. I mean, this is, these are real world examples. If it went through to press the last couple of weeks, it definitely is. It's a real. Aws and apple have vehemently denied, strenuously objected to the claim. I refuted. I would, I checked it out, I think with the Bloomberg story wrong, but we know that there is hacking going But again, this is an example of, on, no doubt. as things are moving around a lot, whether their workloads are manufacturing, this is a data problem. >> It all comes down to data. I mean data is the ultimate weapon in this age where they were in right now, um, and the company that can help you best to have as much data meaning first party generated data, but then also complement that with, for example, Oracle data cloud, right? Really Privacy compliant. Third Party data points to have this contextual demographic, Geo geolocation type of context to really delight customer experience and compliment your own insight is massive and we'd like to think we have a great story to tell not only being to manage this data but also to Securitas data because data security is massive. I mean I have been a personal victim of the equifax hack, so since then I take it very much seriously. >> I mean not take credit card fraud on that. >> You had been to be honest, I mean like impact was less than I'd expected it, but it's still scary to see as to how fast your privacy can be compromised. Right? So you definitely want to make sure that be hacked and some advice we you want to be hacked. Just tell people you own a lot of big coin. You'll be hacking in a heartbeat. But this is the culture. Let's get back down to this core issue because Larry Ellison said a couple open oracle liberals will go, that security should be always on. Yes. And this is a fundamental concern. So you know, as you guys look at bringing this customer experience together, bringing the unity of the data together. Um, I mean there's a lot of oracle products out there. You got, you got ERP and hcm, you've got cx data, cloud, all these things are out there, right? So bottom line, that's SaaS cloud for Oracle. What is the, what's the mission, and simplify it for us. What if I'm a customer? I got a lot of Oracle, I have some oracle, maybe I want more or less or I don't And what's the value proposition for oracle cloud's SaaS solutions? know. Bottom line. >> In a nutshell, it's about future proofing the business of our customers. I'd like to think that cloud is in hyphened the inevitable destination for us to serve the customers and our prospect base at large to help them just be ahead of the curve in either driving innovation, taking advantage of data points to turn it into a competitive advantage and having this quick ability on a quarterly basis to surface as innovation, but don't leave the customer alone with standalone innovation platforms. Sidecar concepts by making sure we have a holistic architectural approach to surface in the context of the business when you need it and making sure. So for us it's really the fundamental way how we can better serve our customer base and our prospect base and we'd like to think that the decisiveness of the architecture we have chosen about a decade ago brings us a lot of advantages right now where customers are realizing tactical cloud adoption was trust. One, LOB is short lift potentially, so they're looking at holistic cloud suites and we have everything in the cloud plus we have the architectural depth to really surface and actually tackle any business problem right now, not as a promise and a couple of years and then also keeping a roadmap, making some extensibility. >> Alright. Personal question. You're again. What are you personally excited about right now? Obviously you've seen a lot of ways of innovation with sap. Now you're at Oracle, you've seen the client server wave, you're now on the cloud wave. What are you personally excited about this next modern infrastructure and software environment as it starts to evolve, that big wave is coming? What's most exciting for you? >> For me, it's really the possibility to re think about every single business process as we know it. It's so fundamental, those technologies, machine learning, constantly learning from your decision that the experience at large, how you interact with a system. We're so conditioned in consumer life that you ask a question, you get this instant gratification of a response. This is exactly the type of experience we're going to see an entERPrise systems as well. So I do think the demographics, the requirements into an ERP system, an entERPrise system at large have changed and we're excited about the ability to serve that up now on a quarterly basis with speed and also customer responds of course, right? Because SaaS for us as a fantastic opportunity to get instant feedback, we can do ab testing, we can immediately see as the, what's used, what's not used. Right? So for us as a vendor, I think we have to be on our toes because I mean there's no hiding in SaaS, right? I mean either you deliver or your don't. Yeah, it's incident. Um, so there's a lag time of shipping info, innovation, safeguarding our customers, and I think we have a great story to tell for customers who have invested with us already in the past with on premise investments, how we can shepherd them into the cloud era at the most predictable type of timeframe caused everything. You mentioned one word which was key unity, which is one of the announcement I forgot to tell customer experience, unity in the past. I think what we have seen on the customer experience side is oftentimes that vendors have taken an approach where you had sales service, marketing, commerce, oftentimes siloed cx. Unity is really our fundamental commitment to making sure that the data management of every single dynamic touchpoints we have with a customer is constantly live up to. But do your point. I think oracle has a fantastic set of cards to deal with customers to help them in any starting point of their journey right now. Not In the future, no re architecture needed. We can take that right out to them. >> I think Oracle is a great opportunity with the data play. I'll see databases, not a foreign concept, the word database, um, data processing, real time. I mean, I think the integration, you guys have a good opportunity and great to great to see you and thanks for spending a QP, appreciate anything, keep conversations. You're lending there. Who's the senior vice president? Oracle SaaS cloud here in the studio, Palo Alto. A lot going on around Oracle. OpenWorld happening. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching.

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat okay welcome back everyone we're here live in San Francisco with the cube cube coverage of red hat summit 2018 and Moscone West in San Francisco I'm John for a co-host of the Q with my co-host this week analyst John Troyer who's the co-founder of tech reckoning advisory and Community Development firm our next guest is Mike Farris is the vice president of business development at Red Hat and its architecture business architecture sitting the table doing all the deals welcome back to the cube great to see you great to be here happy to come on so red hat has always played the long game in its business you got a very community focused us you got a lot of data in front of you you got a lot of customers but now the industry deals are forming IBM deal you guys announced here and Microsoft two notables really kind of are a telltale sign of what's to come what does it mean you had two big enterprise players getting behind openshift and Red Hat what's the name so you know it means coming of age of both containers and industry standards around this and so similar to what we did with Red Hat Enterprise Linux it what started at the edge of network computing and gradually through relationship with IBM Dell HP became the standard hardware enabler applications then came on board with partners like Oracle and others going through sa P and the like now we're seeing the same thing happen in the container space where now that kubernetes has been established as the orchestration standard in the industry Red Hat has made the bet adopted on that and now starting to see the fruition of people standardizing around that the major players the cloud providers from IBM Microsoft and and applications are sitting on top of that are starting to see this as the platform that they wanted to play on and just to kind of point out just because yeah you mentioned kubernetes you guys weren't johnny-come-lately on kubernetes either you guys made the investment years ago including tsakuba you saw containers so you're it wasn't like whoo it's like yesterday it developed nicely for you I mean our open shift was actually launched in 2011 and then in 2013 we made the switch to kubernetes and made the bet on it as being the orchestration standard and you know as you saw Red Hat do with KVM and the hypervisor space you know designing everything around a standard that we could support for in the case of Linux up to ten years you know we're doing the same type of thing and making the platform the focus not the individual technology so applications that are developed ISVs that are focused with those customers on deploying those and now with major partners like IBM and Microsoft saying this is the thing that is going to live and breathe in your enterprise as you take existing applications moving them into the cloud native and space as well as also when you start building new applications on it on a fresh platform you've got you have business architecture in your title I want to talk about business architecture because with cloud scale business logic is where the innovation is and then using technology to scale that but you also have it's not always the best technology sometimes that makes the fit it could be the right technology at the right time and Jim White has mentioned that earlier in his interview today business architecture is about the win-win scenarios and open source as well as the commercialization piece can you comment on the preferred architecture of folks who want to go to the cloud and take advantage of the of the transformation happening how should they architect their business how should they think holistically around putting the pieces together whether it's vendor relationships rolling out and hiring new developers and moving to a cloud native cloud scale while preserving their existing investments so just like when we started with Linux and Red Hat Enterprise Linux in 2002 the focus has been on making sure that customers have choice as they do this and and you know it's the platform that matters and making sure that you have the scalable secure environment that you can run across these and so taking that choice theme on a standardized platform and about starting to be able to say regardless of what application you have where you need to be run or what services you need to plug in you need to make sure those are available everywhere so when when we talk to architects and business architects that are looking at pricing models and mechanisms these two things are now forefront in their design architectures when they start sitting down and so you know our focus has been how do we enable this common platform starting with Red Hat Enterprise Linux and open shift across every major cloud provider in the world and on-premise as those models start to change and so one of the announcements that we made was we're gonna be supporting open shift on Azure stack you know this opens up choice for those customers be able to say regardless from on-premise on a Red Hat OpenStack environment or a Azure stack environment or off-premise at major providers like IBM cloud and Microsoft Azure now being able to say that I've got the support across these architectures and the multiple business models that I want to be able to purchase that allow me to enter into this space like I want to drill down in that at the Microsoft announcement okay it's cuz it's multifaceted right it's not just like you can run you could run OpenShift on Azure stack on pram if you wanted to right it's it's it's it's a managed service on Asscher itself it's also integrated into some of their offerings like the now sequel server will be a Red Hat certified container as well as being a container over on their side and they're building it into their uh their dev programs and dev tools right but you'll get you get you get Red Hat credits as well if you're if you're sitting there in with the Microsoft toolset so can you talk a little bit about you know some of those points of contact maybe expand on the sure absolutely and so I think kind of the core point to recognize is you know for many years now we've been talking about containers as a packaging right well it's actually what's in the container that matters and and so from the perspective of that you know you know the position is I mean containers are Linux and and Linux is Red Hat Enterprise Linux and so when we start talking about this the foundation of this really starts from that angle and so with Microsoft we actually announced last fall that we're gonna do open shift dedicated which is the Red Hat managed service on on Amazon and Google we announced we're going to be taking that to Microsoft Azure as well but in the course of those discussions and sitting down with customers talking to the Microsoft teams you know became readily apparent that if we partnered on this and did something much more aggressive to build a higher value solution for the customer we could actually deliver something that that customer saw is not just a unified approach but actually a Microsoft offering and so what we announced yesterday and what Microsoft jointly announced with us was that that we're announcing the release and and the upcoming release of open shift on Azure which is a jointly managed and operated and supported open shift service it's actually the industry's first jointly managed service on a public cloud and so we look at those customers now can go to Microsoft get a first party offering from them be able to deploy their applications have Microsoft run the infrastructure Red Hat run the open chef platform and have that service role available so they can focus on the applications and not the infrastructure who gets the support on that is the Microsoft leading on the front you guys splitting the duties there yes that working so on the support side in 2015 we announced something called integrated hybrid support with Microsoft we actually had Red Hat associates on site in Redmond working side-by-side with Microsoft support personnel um this extends that but what we're also doing is with the open shift on Azure offering it's actually to be a Microsoft first party product they're gonna be selling in the market we will be selling in the market and so customers can call Microsoft is their first line but if they happen to call Red Hat we've got this back-end infrastructure we know how to escalate we've got joint ticketing systems we know actually how to work on this together so you know it is a combination call it a hybrid support ending the previous model you vets work absolutely not like a branding brand new thing yeah but customers who are you know large-scale as your users today will still call Microsoft and they'll be able to get to the right people through their Microsoft reps so I think one of the impacts what I see I'm gonna get your reaction this is that obviously that multi-cloud has been a big discussion and it's a future stay but that's what everyone wants choice right so they're doing a lot of work on premise and clarifying their architecture this has been a big part of today's world this seems to be a multi cloud opportunity for your customers is that kind of where you see the vein value yeah so you know when we look at the platform we want the platform to be consistent whether it's Red Hat Enterprise Linux and now open chef and have that available in a consistent way in a consistent price point and a consistent value representation to the customers regardless of where they want to go and so you know we've got customers that that will have a primary cloud and on-premise or a primary cloud and a backup and it on-premise and it's very important for their applications for the development life cycles and for their support mechanisms so they have one place to go one place to work with and focus on a singular platform that's why you know we hear us talk about this we're doing the exact same thing we did with Red Enterprise Linux we're not varying the technology we're integrating it deeper and in this case Microsoft very deeply in their infrastructure but providing the same value to customer above the line and then backing it with this jointly operated and managed service from Microsoft and containers has been a great tailwind for your business big time how has OpenShift success change your job in the past year or at all it's made it a lot harder because you know I think the evolution of containers evolution early on of the orchestration space you know people have been asking about alright are you following the community right how close to the Kerman kubernetes latest release are you you know that was a dialogue that we're now evolving in the industry to being how can I get the services that I need how do I get the support that I need and and how do I make sure it actually is secure and that you know when the next major issue comes out that that you know all my containers are up to date and so the complexity is increased from defective of we're no longer talking about certification of an ISV on Red Hat Enterprise Linux which happens to be certified on specific hardware now we're talking about living and breathing container life cycles from ISVs from end customers sitting on a platform that runs across all the public clouds and when the next security issue happens how do we make sure that the is v's containers of the end customers applications that are containers all in Red Hat Enterprise Linux containers that they actually are secure the the moment that that we release the patch across these and that's really the value in getting that across in the industry and be able to say that all of that works in concert with the new business models consumption and other things you know those are the complexities we're having to deal with now definitely a sign of 2018 right in some ways the world has come to red hat right you read has kept it it's open culture and open ethos certainly this is a signal like the new of the new Microsoft right playing with Red Hat Red Hat now also gets to support Windows containers I mean IBM although has been a supporter of open source and Linux and Red Hat for years so it is a I love the new world that a lot of our old assumptions are thrown away right and and and it's about delivering value to customers not necessarily what tribe you're in yeah and you see IBM I mean that has had a long play in the container space means starting with the bluemix environments and kind of moving into the latest thing with with IBM cloud private you know from from our perspective it's this unifying nature that says now that we can actually calm down and talk about what is enterprise need and how long it is and how do we build relationships in with IBM and with Microsoft they can really provide that so the customers can get the services they and the complexity you're talking about on your job is going to be an ecosystem opportunity for you you know making making more people come with it to the table to Red Hat so think you have a great opportunity in the ecosystem as well a final question for you is if someone's watching this video they say hey I want to do a deal with Mike I mean how are you doing deals - how do you evaluate is that a community-driven is it you know organic top down or is there a certain way that people can engage with you and read ad to do a business deal or is it ecosystem trip just take a minute to explain so the first thing we always look at is what are customers asking for and how can this help the community right those are the two things that drive the discussions at the CEO level with these partners that we're dealing with and even emerging markets I mean I sit down with small managed service providers and they want to offer OpenShift services in the same way that they've been doing Red Hat Enterprise Linux services for years and it's it's about the customers that are coming to them saying I see this as the platform I want to modernize my existing applications or start an it cloud native development using these how can we sit down and have the conversation so frankly from our perspective customers are key and so is the community and as long as we can have those two balances with relationships it's great and you mentioned the standardization when you have that kind of momentum and the industry and the communities it's going to enable a lot of opportunities and certainly you guys are doing great job so you've got a lot of we you're a busy guy yep absolutely Mike thanks for grating on the cue sharing your insights business development action going on a red hat big notable deals IBM and Microsoft just one of many that continues to be open doing the all out in the open it's the cube we're out in the open here in the middle of Moscone West I'm John four at John Torrio stay with us for more day two coverage of three days of live Red Hat summit covers be right back stay with us

>> Announcer: Live from midtown Manhattan, it's theCUBE. Covering Big Data New York City 2017. Brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media and its ecosystem sponsors. >> Okay welcome back everyone, live here in New York City it's theCUBE's coverage of Big Data NYC. It's our event we've been doing for five years in conjunction with Strata Hadoop now called Strata Data right around the corner, separate place. Every year we get the best voices tech. Thought leaders, CEO's, executives, entrepreneurs anyone who's bringing the signal, we share that with you. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE. Eight years covering Big Data, since 2010, the original Hadoop world. I'm here with Amit Walia, who's the Executive Vice President, Chief Product Officer for Informatica. Welcome back, good to see you. >> Good to be here John. >> theCUBE alumni, always great to have you on. Love product we had everyone on from Hortonworks. >> I just saw that. >> Product guys are great, can share the road map and kind of connect the dots. As Chief Product Officer, you have to have a 20 mile stare into the future. You got to know what the landscape is today, where it's going to be tomorrow. So I got to ask you, where's it going to be tomorrow? It seems that the rubber's hit the road, real value has to be produced. The hype of AI is out there, which I love by the way. People can see through that but they get it's good. Where's the value today? That's what customers want to know. I got hybrid cloud on the table, I got a lot of security concerns. Governance is a huge problem. The European regulations are coming over the top. I don't have time to do IoT and these other things, or do I? I mean this is a lot of challenges but how do you see it playing out? >> I think, to be candid, it's the best of times. The changing times are the best of times because people can experiment. I would say if you step back and take a look, we've been talking for such a long time. If there was any time, where forget the technology jargon of infrastructure, cloud, IoT, data has become the currency for every enterprise right? Everybody wants data. I say like you know, business users want today's data yesterday to make a decision tomorrow. IT has always been in the business of data, everybody wants more data. But the point you're making is that while that has become more relevant to an enterprise, it brings into the lot of other things, GDPR, it brings governance, it brings security issues, I mean hybrid clouds, some data on-prem, some data on cloud but in essence, what I think every company has realized that they will live and die by how well do they predict the future with the data they have on all their customers, products, whatever it is, and that's the new normal. >> Well hate to say it, admit pat myself on the back, but we in theCUBE team and Wikibon saw this early. You guys did too, and I want to bring up a comment we've talked about a couple of years ago. One, you guys were in the data business, Informatica. You guys went private but that was an early indicator of the trend that everyone's going private now. And that's a signal. For the first time, private equity finance have had trumped bigger venture capital asset class financing. Which is a signal that the waves are coming. We're surfing these little waves right now, we think they're big but they big ones are coming. The indicator is everyone's retrenching. Private equity's a sign of undervaluation. They want to actually also transform maybe some of the product engineering side of it or go to market. Basically get the new surfboard. >> Yeah. >> For the big waves. >> I mean that was the premise for us too because we saw as we were chatting right. We knew the new world, which was going towards predictive analytics or AI. See data is the richest thing for AI to be applied to but the thing is that it requires some heavy lifting. In fact that was our thesis, that as we went private, look we can double down on things like cloud. Invest truly for the next four years which being in public markets sometimes is hard. So we step back and look where we are as you were acting from my cover today. Our big believers look, there's so much data, so many varying architecture, so many different places. People are in Azure, or AWS, on-prem, by the way, still on mainframe. That hasn't gone away, you go back to the large customers. But ultimately when you talk about the biggest, I would say the new normal, which is AI, which clearly has been overtalked about but in my opinion has been barely touched because the biggest application of machine learning is on data. And that predicts things, whether you want to predict forecasting, or you predict something will come down or you can predict, and that's what we believe is where the world is going to go and that's what we double down on with our Claire technology. Just go deep, bring AI to data across the enterprise. >> We got to give you guys props, you guys are right on the line. I got to say as a product person myself, I see you guys executing great strategy, you've been very complimentary to your team, think you're doing a great job. Let's get back to AI. I think if you look at the hype cycles of things, IoT certainly has, still think there's a lot more hype to have there, there's so much more to do there. Cloud was overhyped, remember cloud washing? Pexus back in 2010-11, oh they're just cloud washing. Well that's a sign that ended up becoming what everyone was kind of hyping up. It did turn out. AI thinks the same thing. And I think it's real because you can almost connect the dots and be there but the reality is, is that it's just getting started. And so we had Rob Thomas from IBM on theCUBE and, you know we were talking. He made a comment, I want to get your reaction to, he said, "You can't have AI without IA." Information architecture. And you're in the information Informatica business you guys have been laying out an architecture specifically around governance. You guys kind of saw that early too. You can't just do AI, AI needs to be trained as data models. There's a lot of data involved that feeds AI. Who trains the machines that are doing the learning? So, you know, all these things come into play back to data. So what is the preferred information architecture, IA, that can power AI, artificial intelligence? >> I think it's a great question. I think of what typically, we recommend and we see large companies do look in the current complex architectures the companies are in. Hybrid cloud, multicloud, old architecture. By the way mainframe, client server, big data, you pick your favorite archit, everything exists for any enterprise right. People are not, companies are not going to move magically, everything to one place, to just start putting data in one place and start running some kind of AI on it. Our belief is that that will get organized around metadata. Metadata is data about data right? The organizing principle for any enterprise has to be around metadata. Leave your data wherever it is, organize your metadata, which is a much lighter footprint and then, that layer becomes the true central nervous system for your new next gen information architecture. That's the layer on which you apply machine learning too. So a great example is look, take GDPR. I mean GDPR is, if I'm a distributor, large companies have their GDPR. I mean who's touching my data? Where is my data coming from? Which database has sensitive data? All of these things are such complex problems. You will not move everything magically to one place. You will apply metadata approach to it and then machine learning starts to telling you gee I some anomaly detection. You see I'm seeing some data which does not have access to leave the geographical boundaries, of lets say Germany, going to, let's say UK. Those are kind of things that become a lot easier to solve once you go organize yourself at the metadata layer and that's the layer on which you apply AI. To me, that's the simplest way to describe as the organizing principle of what I call the data architecture or the information architecture for the next ten years. >> And that metadata, you guys saw that earlier, but how does that relate to these new things coming in because you know, one would argue that the ideal preferred infrastructure would be one that says hey no matter what next GDPR thing will happen, there'll be another Equifax that's going to happen, there'll be some sort of state sponsor cyber attack to the US, all these things are happening. I mean hell, all securities attacks are going up-- >> Security's a great example of that. We saw it four years ago you know, and we worked on a metadata driven approach to security. Look I've been on the security business however that's semantic myself. Security's a classic example of where it was all at the infrastructure layer, network, database, server. But the problem is that, it doesn't matter. Where is your database? In the cloud. Where is your network? I mean, do you run a data center anymore right? If I may, figuratively you don't. Ultimately, it's all about the data. The way at which we are going and we want more users like you and me access to data. So security has to be applied at the data layer. So in that context, I just talked about the whole metadata driven approach. Once you have the context of your data, you can apply governance to your data, you can apply security to your data, and as you keep adding new architectures, you do not have to create a paddle architecture you have to just append your metadata. So security, governance, hybrid cloud, all of those things become a lot easier for you, versus clearing one new architecture after another which you can never get to. >> Well people will be afraid of malware and these malicious attacks so auditing becomes now a big thing. If you look at the Equifax, it might take on, I have some data on that show that there was other action, they were fleeced out for weeks and months before the hack was even noticed. >> All this happens. >> I mean, they were ten times phished over even before it was discovered. They were inside, so audit trail would be interesting. >> Absolutely, I'll give you, typically, if you read any external report this is nothing tied to Equifax. It takes any enterprise three months minimum to figure out they're under attack. And now if a sophisticated attacker always goes to right away when they enter your enterprise, they're finding the weakest link. You're as secure as your weakest link in security. And they will go to some data trail that was left behind by some business user who moved onto the next big thing. But data was still flowing through that pipe. Or by the way, the biggest issue is inside our attack right? You will have somebody hack your or my credentials and they don't download like Snowden, a big fat document one day. They'll go drip by drip by drip by drip. You won't even know that. That again is an anomaly detection thing. >> Well it's going to get down to the firmware level. I mean look at the sophisticated hacks in China, they run their own DNS. They have certificates, they hack the iPhones. They make the phones and stuff, so you got to assume packing. But now, it's knowing what's going on and this is really the dynamic nature. So we're in the same page here. I'd love to do a security feature, come into the studio in our office at Palo Alto, think that's worthy. I just had a great cyber chat with Vidder, CTO of Vidder. Junaid is awesome, did some work with the government. But this brings up the question around big data. The landscape that we're in is fast and furious right now. You have big data being impacted by cloud because you have now unlimited compute, low latency storage, unlimited power source in that engine. Then you got the security paradigm. You could argue that that's going to slow things down maybe a little bit, but it also is going to change the face of big data. What is your reaction to the impact to security and cloud to big data? Because even though AI is the big talk of the show, what's really happening here at Strata Data is it's no longer a data show, it's a cloud and security show in my opinion. >> I mean cloud to me is everywhere. It was the, when Hadoop started it was on-prem but it's pretty much in the cloud and look at AWS and Azure, everyone runs natively there, so you're exactly right. To me what has happened is that, you're right, companies look at things two ways. If I'm experimenting, then I can look at it in a way where I'm not, I'm in dev mode. But you're right. As things are getting more operational and production then you have to worry about security and governance. So I don't think it's a matter of slowing down, it's a nature of the business where you can be fast and experiment on one side, but as you go prod, as you go real operational, you have to worry about controls, compliance and governance. By the way in that case-- >> And by the way you got to know what's going on, you got to know the flows. A data lake is a data lake, but you got the Niagara falls >> That's right. >> streaming content. >> Every, every customer of ours who's gone production they always want to understand full governance and lineage in the data flow. Because when I go talk to a regulator or I got talk to my CEO, you may have hundred people going at the data lake. I want to know who has access to it, if it's a production data lake, what are they doing, and by the way, what data is going in. The other one is, I mean walk around here. How much has changed? The world of big data or the wild wild west. Look at the amount of consolidation that has happened. I mean you see around the big distribution right? To me it's going to continue to happen because it's a nature of any new industry. I mean you looked at securities, cyber security big data, AI, you know, massive investment happens and then as customers want to truly go to scale they say look I can only bet on a few that can not only scale, but had the governance and compliance of what a large company wants. >> The waves are coming, there's no doubt about it. Okay so, let me get your reaction to end this segment. What's Informatica doing right now? I mean I've seen a whole lot 'cause we've cover you guys with the show and also we keep in touch, but I want you to spend a minute to talk about why you guys are better than what's out there on the floor. You have a different approach, why are customers working with you and if the folks aren't working with you yet, why should they work with Informatica? >> Our approach in a way has changed but not changed. We believe we operate in what we call the enterprise cloud data management. Our thing is look, we embrace open source. Open source, parks, parkstreaming, Kafka, you know, Hive, MapReduce, we support them all. To us, that's not where customers are spending their time. They're spending their time, once I got all that stuff, what can I do with it? If I'm truly building next gen predictive analytics platform I need some level of able to manage batch and streaming together. I want to make sure that it can scale. I want to make sure it has security, it has governance, it has compliance. So customers work with us to make sure that they can run a hybrid architecture. Whether it is cloud on-prem, whether it is traditional or big data or IoT, all in once place, it is scale-able and it has governance and compliance bricked into it. And then they also look for somebody that can provide true things like, not only data integration, quality, cataloging, all of those things, so when we working with large or small customers, whether you are in dev or prod, but ultimately helping you, what I call take you from an experiment stage to a large scale operational stage. You know, without batting an eyelid. That's the business we are in and in that case-- >> So you are in the business of operationalizing data for customers who want to add scale. >> Our belief is, we want to help our customers succeed. And customers will only succeed, not just by experimenting, but taking their experiments to production. So we have to think of the entire lifecycle of a customer. We cannot stop and say great for experiments, sorry don't go operational with us. >> So we've had a theme here in theCUBE this week called, I'm calling it, don't be a tool, and too many tools are out there right now. We call it the tool shed phenomenon. The tool shed phenomenon is customers aren't, they're tired of having too many tools and they bought a hammer a couple years ago that wants to try to be a lawn mower now and so you got to understand the nature of having great tooling, which you need which defines the work, but don't confuse a tool with a platform. And this is a huge issue because a lot of these companies that are flowing by wayside are groping for platforms. >> So there are customers tell us the same thing, which is why we-- >> But tools have to work in context. >> That's exactly, so that's why you heard, we talked about that for the last couple, it was the intelligent data platform. Customers don't buy a platform but all of our products, like are there microservices on our platform. Customers want to build the next gen data management platform, which is the intelligent data platform. A lot of little things are features or tools along the way but if I am a large bank, if I'm a large airline, and I want to go at scale operational, I can't stitch hundred tools and expect to run my IT shop from there. >> Yeah >> I can't I will never be able to do it. >> There's good tools out there that have a nice business model, lifestyle business or cashflow business, or even tools that are just highly focused and that's all they do and that's great. It's the guys who try to become something that they're not. It's hard, it's just too difficult. >> I think you have to-- >> The tool shed phenomenon is real. >> I think companies have to realize whether they are a feature. I always say are you a feature or are you a product? You have to realize the difference between the two and in between sits our tool. (John laughing) >> Well that quote came, the tool comment came from one of our chief data officers, that was kind of sparked the conversation but people buy a hammer, everything looks like a nail and you don't want to mow your lawn with a hammer, get a lawn mower right? Do the right tool for the job. But you have to platform, the data has to have a holistic view. >> That's exactly right. The intelligent data platform, that's what we call it. >> What's new with Informatica, what's going on? Give us a quick update, we'll end the segment with a quick update on Informatica. What do you got going on, what events are coming up? >> Well we just came off a very big release, we call it 10-2 which had lot of big data, hybrid cloud, AI and catalog and security and governance, all five of them. Big release, just came out and basically customers are adopting it. Which obviously was all centered around the things we talked in Informatica. Again, single platform, cloud, hybrid, big data, streaming and governance and compliance. And then right now, we are basically in the middle, after Informatica, we go on as barrage of tours across multiple cities across the globe so customers can meet us there. Paris is coming up, I was in London a few weeks ago. And then separately we're getting up for coming up, I will probably see you there at Amazon re:Invent. I mean we are obviously all-in partner for-- >> Do you have anything in China? >> China is a- >> Alibaba? >> We're working with them, I'll leave it there. >> We'll be in Alibaba in two weeks for their cloud event. >> Excellent. >> So theCUBE is breaking into China, CUBE China. We need some translators so if anyone out there wants to help us with our China blog. >> We'll be at Dreamforce. We were obviously, so you'll see us there. We were at Amazon Ignite, obviously very close to- >> re:Invent will be great. >> Yeah we will be there and Amazon obviously is a great partner and by the way a great customer of ours. >> Well congratulations, you guys are doing great, Informatica. Great to see the success. We'll see you at re:Invent and keep in touch. Amit Walia, the Executive Vice President, EVP, Chief Product Officer, Informatica. They get the platform game, they get the data game, check em out. It's theCUBE ending day two coverage. We've got a big event tonight. We're going to be streaming live our research that we are going to be rolling out here at Big Data NYC, our even that we're running in conjunction with Strata Data. They run their event, we run our event. Thanks for watching and stay tuned, stay with us. At five o'clock, live Wikibon coverage of their new research and then Party at Seven, which will not be filmed, that's when we're going to have some cocktails. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. Stay tuned. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering the VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its Ecosystem Partners. (upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. We're live in Las Vegas. theCUBE special coverage of VMworld 2017, our eighth year. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE with my co-host, Dave Vellante is also co-host. Our next two guests is Jaspreet Singh, CEO, Founder of Druva and Matt Morgan and CMO of Druva. Guys, welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you very much. >> Glad to be here. >> So Pat Gelsinger basically laid it out on the keynote, essentially the waves, and one of them, you're riding hard, you're a startup. Take a minute to talk about why you guys are excited about this wave, because I think data protection, decentralized, fully cloud world. Cloud, IoT, and edge. It's creating a huge data environment. Jaspreet, take a minute to explain what you guys are doing. >> Absolutely, so if you look at the big wave, right? The data, as said, is getting completely decentralized. We have IoT, edge... the new cloud, and the data center is getting disrupted with time. And the more data gets decentralized or defragmented, the more centralized the data management has to be. Whether on the edge, in the cloud, and the whole notion of cloud, if you think about it is actually an interesting phenomenon where Amazon is applying retail economy to traditional IT. If you combine them together, you sort of want to manage the data as a service wherever it goes. Be it the edge, be it the core. You want the simplest ability to sort of protect it, to govern it, and to add intelligence to it over time as it gathers more and more information. So Druva provides a platform, end to end, to sort of make data all managed properly from a single console. >> Pat Gelsinger was up on the stage in his keynote, Andy Jassy came out. Big news, Amazon relationships. Got some fruit bearing already. And they had to do that because vCloud Air was kind of an interesting point. But he brings up the point about the cloud as disruption and that the conventional wisdom of the old is no longer the most relevant thing right now and a lot of customers are paying attention to that so I got to ask you as a founder and CEO on the right wave, in our opinion, and Wikibon's opinion. What should customers look for for success, 'cause we're early on this new vector. What's different? What should they be thinking about as they look at the cloud, look at the distributed and decentralized edge. What are the some of the things that's different? >> I think you would think about customers and, Matt, please, add to it. For customers, this is not just a technology stack, right? It's not a software-defined data center all over again. This is more of a... trying to see how they can consume something at a predictable and certain price wherever they go, right? That's the whole genesis of cloud, it's a complete business model shift. And so when they look at data and how they holistically manage data they understand data is likely to outlive most systems by 3X. And now when they have this notion of cloud, how can they be on the journey to sort of to consume and deliver the value of data as a service in this whole notion of public cloud. And that's sort of the delivered promise. >> So Matt, I wonder if you could talk about the brand continuum, that brand promise. The ascendancy of the sort of modern backup software in the first part of this millennium was coincident with virtualization and consolidating servers and that we sort of played that out. And now customers are saying we have to rethink the way we protect data because of cloud. So I wonder if you could address that and talk about the brand promise of Druva in that context. >> Excellent. Yes. We did a survey, 450 VMware customers and it basically underscores the VMware strategy. There are going to be three tenets to the modern data architecture moving forward. There's going to be physical servers, there's going to be virtualized infrastructure, and there's going to be VMware Cloud on AWS, or its derivatives. When you move further from left to right, moving from physical to virtual, virtual to cloud. What ends up happening is the approach to data protection of the past fails to scale and frankly is no longer compatible. You can't float an appliance in a cloud. You can't possibly put in your own co-located infrastructure within a cloud store to attempt to protect that data. So a lot of people just go without protection at all. What we found in our survey is that three out of four people surveyed really want an as-a-service solution because they're able to basically protect cloud to cloud. They're able to come in and say, "OK, if my data is going to be sitting there, my infrastructure is going to be sitting there, I want to be able to wrap that infrastructure with an as-a-service solution that will protect it. The real value though isn't just protecting in the cloud, it's the as-a-service solution is not limited by the constraints of the past. It can actually be extended backwards so you could take your virtual infrastructure and protect it with an as-aservice solution. You can take your physical infrastructure and protect it as a solution. So as a result, we see this as a sea change to this new way of protecting data. >> So Jaspreet, you were saying that you've got to have this centralized data management philosophy in order to succeed in this world that Matthew just described. Why is that? Is that because you need a single point of control in case something goes wrong and it's a recovery thing? Or is it more of a business model sort of an as-a-service business model requirement? I wonder if you could address that? >> So the traditional IT boundary is sort of shattering in the cloud world, right? If you're going to have... There's a last incident of sorts, right? If one incident happens in a company then many parties are looking at what happened there. Is it a breach, is it a loss, it is a governance issue? So data has multiple faces now. Data also touches multiple parties, be it production, be it the DevOps. You've got to have a holistic view of looking at the data versus traditional approach of I'm going to put a backup architecture, or DR architecture, or e-discovery architecture all in silos. And cloud sort of also gives an opportunity for people to not hug their hardware and say this is mine, go get yours. They can sort of break boundaries and say let's work together on this data set where I can manage the prediction part of it and someone else can pay their dues to manage the governance part of it. So decentralization, the more... I'm sorry. (coughs) The more decentralization of data is promoting a holistic view of management of data purely built from the cloud. >> Jaspreet, I wanted to ask you. You had a pretty busy week. We covered this on SiliconANGLE, and so I kind of want to ask it again since we're here at VMworld. $80 million in funding. Congratulations, big news. And the Druva Cloud Platform on AWS. Congratulations. Can you share more color to that? That's a lot of cash, 80 million. >> It's a good amount of money. It's no replacement for creativity, but it's a good fuel to have in the company. Yes, it's fortunate to have a great lead, lower capital with all of our existing investors: Sequoia and Nexus, Tenaya including EMC Ventures was a (mumbles) to be in this round. Secondary storage overall is getting disrupted. The legacy isn't material anymore given the big cloud wave, as I said. So the new wave of providers have to be in the cloud and hence, Druva. We've been building historically a very strong foundation of cloud native solution without a hardware approach. With no hardware approach, all in the cloud. In the past, we've taken a legacy architecture of a backup, DR, e-discovery into multiple products in Druva Phoenix, to take care of edge data or data center data and now we're taking a big step forward and say we're going to combine our products into a single platform. Think of it as Amazon services for data prediction. The customer logs in and can search for their workload, they want a backup VM survey, they want to search today, and then deliver what they want to the IT right from a single point of console. That's the power of Druva Cloud Platform. >> Eight years ago, we interviewed Dheeraj Pandey for the first time. It was our first time doing theCUBE 2010, and at that time, no one's ever heard of Nutanix. New-tan-nix, New-tAh-nix. A little accent from New Jersey, Massachusetts. I always get it wrong. >> I say New-tan-nix. >> Dheeraj was kind of crazy. He was viewed in Silicon Valley as kind of a wild card. No one got his model at that time. Dave, and David Florey of Wikibon, were like "This is amazing," they saw it right away. And I'm like, "This is really awesome." You guys are kind of out of that same track and invest along the same lines for secondary storage. So I've got to ask you, when you're doing your fundraising, you must've had some pretty interesting experiences. Can you share some of the, without naming names, the good, and kind of weird conversations you had around, cause you got to understand the trends to get your business. >> Absolutely. I think storage is the new F word, right? There's a lot of people who don't dislike storage for what happened in the public market recently. So you go to explain to them there's a thesis around making money on public cloud using public cloud as storage tiers, so we've had various interesting conversations there. We were lucky to have Riverwod, who got the idea, who are of the same conviction as the founder to put money behind where the market is going, but still a lot of venture capitalists don't like the venture part of it. They want a predictable story, they want easy money, and they want big valuations. But the venture in the venture, VC capital.. >> John: Wait a minute. The idea of venturing... >> Jaspreet: That's right. >> To go take a chance or a bet. >> Jaspreet: That's right. >> That's called venture capital. >> Jaspreet: Absolutely. >> Not hedge fund or, you know, money market. >> Jaspreet: Absolutely. >> You basically got some pretty weird, kind of like, "Huh" questions. What was the craziest question you got? That was so off-base. >> Crazy questions like, "Where's the box? (Interviewers laugh) "Wait a minute. Where's the storage box?" >> John: "Where do I put it?" >> We had one question where someone asked, "So what's your..." You know, not option, it was... What the word? What's your, the... >> "Engagement?" >> "Engagement on your software?" And we were like, this is your... backup software, or DR software. It's going to perform virtually dutiable. But you don't engage with the software as you would with a salesforce.com. You got to look for... one party or two parties of a strong conviction and sort of go with them. >> John: Great story. Thanks for sharing. >> You mentioned three things: protect, govern, and add intelligence. And that "add intelligence" pieces You don't usually associate that with, certainly not backup, but data protection. So in this world of digital business, we think of digital business is all about how you leverage data assets. And when you think of adding intelligence, that's not something we typically think of in a data protection company. How is Druva different in that regard and how can you help organizations leverage their data assets? >> Yeah. We see this as a customer journey, OK? Data protection is the gateway drug to leveraging an as-a-service model, right? Because it's really obvious. I can protect my data, I can restore it, I can do disaster recovery. Once you get that data into a centralized store, there's incredible things you can do. From the fact that it's centralized. Unlike previous approaches that were dozens or hundreds of silos that you never could report across, Druva gives you that centralization effect. So the first logical step to move up the customer journey is to embrace governance where you can start having a perspective. Making sure that you're legally complying with regulations. Making sure that you're governing for legal requirements within the company. But when you move pass that, you start to actually start to manage for patterns. And that's where intelligence comes in. When you start thinking of data, the associated metadata that surrounds that data, is data within itself. And if you wrap intelligence around that, you could start to get predictive around areas that could affect risk for your organization or even open up opportunity. So a good risk example is ransomware. Through intelligence, you can actually see when data that is distributed starts being encrypted early so you're able to identify and do what we call the anomaly detection. So that's kind of the journey, if you will. You go protection to governance, governance to intelligence. >> So it is kind of the holy grail, right? I mean. >> Jaspreet: Absolutely. >> Companies historically, in your business, haven't been able to achieve-- I mean, EMC tried, they bought Documentum to try to achieve that vision. And, I mean, I guess it failed, but they sold it for a boatload of money. So they're all good. Nobody's crying for EMC, but what's your perspective on this, Jaspreet? >> I think these are mostly elastic workload, highly elastic workload. You want a certain data, you want it right now, and you want it to be a short-lived search. You want AI, DPI, which requires a lot of data, but the DPI machine learning has to have a holistic amount of data for a very short amount of time, can burst compute, get the problem solved and move on. So historically, for lack of architecture, lack of abundant amount of hardware, and also the IT boundaries of not supporting each of the decision was the big limiting factor. Now, with cloud we've delivered a full tech search but to a price point that companies can afford for an investigative search. Searches weren't affordable in the past. They can do searching of parable data in an instant, and go out, right? And likewise, in machine learning. Machine learning is a lot easier proposition in cloud and the to use it pretty easier. So you apply deep learning, you understand parlance to what Matt said, you understand ransomware before most customers can see it, and then alert them, and then sort of move on, right? So, the seeking of IT boundaries and the power of current intelligence is truly helping us build this together. >> One last marketing question, if I may. Or a marketing challenge. You got a choice. You can go after the legacy stovepipe guys, which is relatively straightforward but there is an emerging set of modern data protection folks. How do you pick those two? Do you do both, and how do you differentiate from the latter in particular? >> Well, I'm really grateful that some large companies have gone forward to advocate public cloud. OK, Amazon and Microsoft with Azure, and with even Google with Google Cloud Platform. They have done a phenomenal job selling a disruption and a more effective way to do business when leveraging the public cloud. When you move to that, the data protection conversation must change. There is no option to do things they way you used to do it. It will be called the chain of pain. So from a marketing point of view, I can attach to all of the dynamics of what data protection means in this hybrid reality where some of your stuff will be in the public cloud, some of your stuff will be below the horizon on premises. I also have the opportunity to talk about the centralization of data. So unlike any appliance vendor that's on the market today or in any traditional approach, the idea of stovepiping your data limits you. It limits you both in the immediate term and it limits you over the long term. By centralizing that information together and delivering it as a service to wrap more of your infrastructure with our protection technology. You're going to be able to gain a lot of value. So I need to focus specifically on that centralization, the move to public cloud, and then there's a cost efficiencies conversation that I can add on top of all of that, which is about taking half your costs out. >> Guys, you had the launch of the Druva Cloud Platform. It's your big news here on AWS with the VMware. Since it's VMworld, which is VMware's Ecosystem show, what should they know about your cloud platform? The VMware customers. The people who are running ops and data centers, and obviously the data protection. We talked about what you just said, which is, there's no walls in the cloud. So it's a completely different dynamic. Completely disrupting data protection with cloud. Completely different ballgame, we get that. But VMware customers, what do they do? How do they engage with you guys? Why should they use you and what should they know? >> Absolutely, as Matt said, there are about 90% of customers we surveyed said that looking at AWS for hosting their VMs in that new model and this new shift towards public cloud Druva only adds a service solution they can consume from Amazon Marketplace, from VMware Cross Cloud Services platform, is what they're calling it. Our Druva, our partner channel, right? It's a no-hardware, simple as-a-service solution delivered natively on AWS to consume on-prem and cloud directly onto a >> So you're an ecosystem partner of VMware's. >> Absolutely. >> On that chart that Gelsinger is going to put up. Under data protection, you will have your logo there. In the future. >> In the near future, yes. There were a certain... Yes, absolutely, yes. In the near future, we definitely hope to see our logo... >> John: Well VMware is still owned by Dell Technologies, AKA Dell EMC, hence the top billing. >> Jaspreet: That's true. >> VM was in there. And they've had a little bit of a... >> Jaspreet: It's true. (laughs) >> Early on requirements of... >> John: You got screwed. Look, I'll say it. You should be in there. But you're certified, it's not like it's in development. It's shipping. >> The early on requirements by VM is pretty simple that you have to use native cloud technology, not the classic storage, and you have to have a clean path to talk across AWS. And we qualified very well. So we're in development right now and to be announced pretty soon. >> John: Alright, so bottom line. Can I buy it and use it today? >> Yes, you can buy it and use it today. >> I'm a VMware customer. >> Absolutely yes. >> Guys, thanks so much. Druva, a hot startup. $80 million of funding on top of a bunch of cash you had. How much did you raise total? >> 200. About $200 million. >> John: $200 million. Plenty of cash in the work chest. Check it out, data protection in the cloud, one of the areas being disrupted by this new wave that Pat Gelsinger is going to lay out here at VMworld 2017. We've got more live CUBE coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: From The Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE On The Ground with Accenture Labs' 30th anniversary celebration. >> Welcome to a special CUBE On The Ground presentation of our coverage of Accenture Labs' 30th birthday party. They've been in business for 30 years. Accenture is doing some great things from here, 30 years ago, to the future. Future's all about AI, blockchain, you name it, virtual reality, augmented reality. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Our next guest is Joe Mikhail, who's the chief revenue officer of a company called Meta. Welcome to the conversation here at the Accenture Labs party. >> Thank you, John, and congratulations to Accenture. >> They have this theme, Magical, but really, it is a magical time. At my age, I've been in this business long enough, it's like I wish I was 20 again, because the technology is really amazing. Augmented reality, you guys do a lot of new stuff. Tell us what your company does, and you guys are doing some really cool stuff. >> Absolutely. We're really pioneering in augmented reality. For those who don't really understand augmented reality, it basically overlays digital data and virtual optics in the real world. With that comes, really, a change in paradigm of what's possible. Our forte is really in being a spatial interface company. We're not only changing the fidelity of the images you see in augmented reality, but how you interface with them, naturally based on neuroscience. >> Joe, first, take a step back, 'cause a lot of folks here in Silicon Valley, they all know what AR is, or augmented reality, something analyst relations work. But augmented reality is the big future. I always say AI stands for, not artificial intelligence, but augmented intelligence. That's what software's doing. What's your definition of augmented reality? >> Augmented reality is the ability to really change how man/machine interface around information, objects outside of 2D panels, and bringing the digital into our world. >> Let's talk about your company, Meta. You guys are doing some pretty cool stuff. Your CTO's not here, which, we'll get him on theCUBE soon. If you're watching, we'll get you on. But there's some cool stuff going on around visualization. I mean, we've covered big data since the day Hadoop was born 2009, 2010 timeframe. Visualization is key, but now, when you go to the next level, 3D, holograms, this is the future. The user interface is going to be augmented at work or at play. What are you guys doing? >> Absolutely, many things when it comes to data visualization. First of all, the third dimension, obviously adds a new way to see data, so, obviously, everything going from a 2D data analysis, you add a dimension, that gives you, obviously, added productivity. But in addition to that, you know, visualizing concepts. Mind-mapping, being able to correlate ideas, and not just data points. And, again, product design cycles and so on, productivity increases. Thirdly, ideation. Taking all that data, getting a 3D model with all its complexity into a simple form that we can collaborate around and design. >> You know, the next generation of users that are coming through the system, if you will, young kids, they're gamers. They love graphics. We're living in kind of a gaming culture, if you will, not to say gaming, literally, but per se, the interface is very rich in graphics, very rich in data. How is that going to impact CIOs? 'Cause they are looking at a old world of IT, put the servers on the racks, move the packets through the network. Now they have an opportunity with mobile, and now with global internet to put things out there like AR, like blockchain, smart contracts, AI. >> I think it's definitely an area that all CIOs should be looking at today, in many aspects. Number one, just like mobile, bring-your-own-device came into the office space. There will be, obviously, an impact from not just productivity solutions in the office, but as we get to consumer and AR, dealing with that and the implications of that. But, a more important, pressing issue for CIOs would be the fact that this is the future of compute. There is not a need anymore for 2D panels, or in the near future for 2D panels and keyboards and mouse interfaces, and how does that change IT support and, again, data sharing, collaboration, and all these-- >> And we see Siri, voice-activated, that's pretty classic. Throw the old movie Minority Report out there, where you're using your hands out there in the 3D space. This is an interface. >> Yes, it truly is. >> How real is that? I mean, come on, tell us! >> It's real, it's here, it's now. You can get a demo today for the audience. Soon, we can definitely invite you and get a demo. It is here. We're able to interact naturally today. We're on second-generation product. We have the widest field of view, which truly gives you immersion. You can walk around a hologram. You can stretch a hologram. You can surround yourselves with unlimited 3D images and panels and windows. >> So, what's the applications? What does this mean for the typical person out in the real world, whether they work in an enterprise, or a business, or a consumer? >> Absolutely. Early adopters right now are in business, enterprises. High-ROI type of applications and product design, so, rapidly iterating on concepts and ideas, getting all the way to sales and marketing, so once you have that design, then, how can you sell it and demonstrate it. All the way to maintenance, training, et cetera. That's the early adopters. Education is next, very close by. In the near future, and then, of course, we're thinking and trending towards consumers. What does shopping look like in the future? >> Check out Meta. It's a cool company. Now, Accenture Labs are having their party, and Accenture's been around for a while. I'm old enough to remember Arthur Andersen, the Big Six accounting firms, Accenture Consulting. These guys are not Johnny-come-latelies. They're doing some cool stuff. What's your role with Accenture Labs? You're on a panel here at this event, it's kind of a celebration. They're bringing the magic to life, talking about the magic of AI and cool things. What are you guys doing here, and what's Accenture Labs doing? >> Yeah, absolutely. We've been in collaboration with Accenture Labs for a little while, and it's been very, very exciting and productive. Number one, we're aligned on vision and strategy, so, currently, it's productivity. We're supporting productivity, we are going to develop a new platform, and so, for example, we've done a study together where we measured basic instructions around a LEGO, this was for the public, around building a LEGO piece used in our headset, using three-dimensional instructions versus 2D instructions, and Accenture brought that magic of quantifying productivity, and it was proved to be 20% faster with respect to instruction and training. >> So, Accenture has some chops, here, technically. >> Absolutely, absolutely. They do. (both laughing) And in the future, I mean, they're a big part of our ecosystem. This is what we're an enabler. We're a spatial interface-- >> What is the ecosystem for AI? That's a good question, 'cause people want to know, like, it's in a new, emerging area. Young kids are going to love this. New software development's coming in. What does the ecosystem look like in this new AR area, and what's the hiring profile? >> Yeah, that's a good question. Let me focus on ecosystem. I would say 50% of our current customers are developers, so the development community is adopting AR and they're building some really interesting and cool things. But the ecosystem comes from developers' content, so there's a lot of content developers, you know, high-fidelity 3D models. Enterprises are consuming all of this, and then channel partners, system integrators such as Accenture that are seeing the opportunity and bridging that gap for a lot of our corporate customers that are still forming their strategies. >> Joe Mikhail here, the chief revenue officer of Meta. I got to ask you, what percentage of your employees and customers are gamers? High amount, medium, low? Got to be a lot of gamers. >> There are some. Obviously, we integrate with Unity. A lot of our developers have come from that world, but our customers, we're a productivity company, and all of our customers are corporates at this time. Of course, we're interested to see what gamers can do on our platform. >> What's the low-hanging fruit for enterprise with respect to AR, because this is the question. No one debates the future. They see some augmentation coming on, obviously wearables, things of that nature, but software's going to power it all. What is the use case for enterprise? What's the low-hanging fruit? >> The lowest-hanging fruit is 3D CAD visualization in the product design cycle. That's just the lowest-hanging fruit right now. And then, training and education. >> You guys excited? >> We are very, very excited. The market's huge. >> All right, final question for you. For the folks that don't know the AR world, what is the future of AR going to be? What's the impact on society, what's the impact on daily lives of people with augmented reality? >> I think there are many, many impacts. One of our core values is technology serving humanity, so for us, it's very important to remove the barriers of devices coming between you and me, and being able to just look up content directly and interact with that. I think that's going to change how we think, how we collaborate, and then, of course, life sciences is huge, so there's a lot of companies starting to look at the future operating system, and the empathy that could come between a doctor and a patient looking at a case instead of just talking, you know? >> Joe, great, thanks for coming on. I'll give you a quick last word, here. What are you guys looking for as a company? You hiring, what's the strategy, what's the plan? Give a quick soundbite for what you guys are doing. >> Absolutely. We're growing. The market demand is huge, and we are hiring. We're looking for engineering, smart engineers that are interested in the space. We are growing on the sales and marketing side. We are absolutely interested in being part of our family, but I would say the biggest interest is in ecosystem partnerships. >> How long are you around for? >> Five years. >> Five years. Congratulations, Accenture Labs, 30 years celebration, where all the magic's happening, that's the theme. They got a magic show. We couldn't get video of that. They wouldn't let us record it. Joe from Meta, chief revenue officer, thanks for sharing your insight here on theCUBE. Appreciate it. >> Thanks, John. >> There'll be more coverage here at Accenture Labs' next 30 years. This is theCUBE coverage. We'll be right back. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering HPE Discover 2017. Brought to you by Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas for HPE, Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, Discover 2017. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE with Dave Vellante, and our next guest is Bill Philbin, who's the general manager of storage and big data for Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. Bill, welcome to theCUBE. Again, good to see you. I think you've been on since 2012, '13, '15. >> Is that right? What, are we carbon dating ourselves now or something? >> We've been tracking our CUBE alumni, but you're heading up the storage business-- >> Do I get a pen? >> We're working on that, Jerry Chen-- >> Seven of them >> Jerry Chen at Greylock wants to have, now, badge values. So, welcome back. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> You were just on theCUBE at VeeamON, which is an event Dave was hosting, I missed it in New Orleans. But a lot of stuff going on around stores, certainly. Virtualization has been around for a while, but now with Cloud; whole new ballgame. Programmable infrastructure, hybrid IT, Wikibond's true private Cloud report came out showing that private Cloud on Prim is $250 billion market. So nothing's really changing radically in the enterprise, per se, certainly maybe servers and storage, but people got to store their data. >> Bill: That's right What's the update from your perspective, what's the story here at HPE Discover? >> So I think there's really three things we're talking about amongst a number of announcements. One is sort of the extension of our All Flash environment for customers, who, as I was saying at Veeam, have the always-on. New world order is we expect everything to be available at a moment's notice, so I was in the middle of the Indian Ocean, using Google Voice over satellite IP on the boat, talking to San Jose, and it worked. That's always-on environment, and the best way to get that is, you know, with an All Flash [unknown], so that's number one. Number two, going back to the story about programmable infrastructures, storage also needs to be programmable, and so, if you've had Rick Lewis or Rick Lewis is coming he'll talk about composable infrastructures with Synergy, but the flip side of that is our belief that storage really needs to be invisible. And the acquisition of Nimble gets us a lot closer to sort of doing that in the same way that you have a safe self-driving car is all the rage. All that rich telemetry comes back, it's analyzed, fingerprinted, and sent out to customers to a point where it's, I call it the Rule of 85. 85% of the customers, the cases are raised by InfoSight and closed by InfoSight, and they have an 85 net promoter score. We're getting to a point where storage can be invisible, cause that's the experience you get on Amazon or as you swipe your credit card, say I want ten terabytes of storage, and that's the last time you have to think about it. We need to have the economics of the web, we need to have the programmability of the web, that's number two, and number three of what we talked about, and this is a big issue, a big thing we talked about with VeeamON, was data protection. The rules of data protection are also changing. Conventional backup does not protect data. I was with a customer a couple weeks ago in London. 120 petabytes; this is a financial services customer now. 120 petabytes of storage: not unusual. 40 of it was Hadoop, and they were surprised because it's unprotected, it's on servers, it's sort of the age of the client-server, and the age of Excel spreadsheets all over again. We realized that most businesses were running on Excel, so All Flash, a different way of supporting our customer support experience, and number three, it's all around how do you protect your data differently. >> What's the big trend from your standpoint, because a lot of that self-driving storage concept, or self-driving car analogy, it speaks to simplicity and automation. >> That's right >> The other thing that's going on is data is becoming more irrelevant, certainly in the Cloud. Whether that's a data protection impact or having data availability for Cloud-native apps, or in memory, or all kinds of cool stuff going on. So you got to lot of stuff happening, so to be invisible, and be programmable, customer's architectures are changing. What's the big trend that you're seeing from a customer standpoint? Are there new ways to lay out storage so that they can be invisible? Certainly a lot of people were looking at their simplification in IT operationally, and then have to prepare for the Cloud, whether that's Multicloud or hybrid or true private Cloud. What architects are you seeing changing, what are people doubling down on, what's the big trends in storage, kind of laying out storage as a strategy? >> So I think the thing about storage in the large, one of the trends obviously that we're seeing is sort of storage co-located with the server. When I started at HP now seven years ago, gen six to gen ten, which we've announced here at this show, the amount of locally attached storage in the box itself is massive. And then the applications are now becoming more and more responsible for data placement, and data replication. And so, even while capacities are growing, I think six or seven percent is what I saw from the latest IDC survey, the actual storage landscape, from a shared storage company, they're actually going down. And the reason is, application provisioning, application-aware storage is really the trend, that's sort of number one. Number two, you see customers looking at deploying the right storage for the right applications. hyperconverge with SimpliVity's a really good example of that, which is they're trying to find the right sort of storage to sort of serve up the right application. And that's where, if you're a single-PoINT provider company now in storage, and you don't have a software-only, a hyperconverge, an All Flash in a couple different flavors, including XP at the top, you're going to find it very, very difficult to sort of continue to compete in this market, and frankly, we're driving a lot of that consolidation, we put some bookends around what we're prepared to pay for. But if you're a PoINT providing storage company now? Life is a lot harder for you than it was a couple years ago. When we started with All Flash, I think it was like 94 All Flash companies. There are not 94 All Flash companies today. And so, I think that's sort of what we see. >> Well, to your point about PoINT companies are going to have a hard time remaining independent, and that's why a lot of 'em are in business to basically sell to a company like yours, cause they fill a need. So my question relates to R&D strategy. As the GM, relatively new GM, you know well that a large company like HPE has to participate in multiple markets, and in order to expand your team, you have to have the right product at the right time. One size does not fit all. So the Nimble acquisition brings in a capability at the lower end of the market, lower price spans, but it also has some unique attributes with regard to the way it uses data and analytics. You've got 3PAR Legendary at the high end. What's the strategy in terms of, and is there one, to bring the best of both of those worlds together, or is it sort of let 20 flowers bloom? >> So, I don't know if it's going to be 'let 20 flowers bloom', but I would probably answer a couple different ways. One is that InfoSight, you're right, is unique value proposition, is part of Nimble. I would bet if I come see you in Madrid, if you have me back for the, whatever, 13th time, [Laughing] that we'll be talking about how InfoSight and 3PAR can come together. So that's sort of the answer to number one. The answer to number two is, even though within the Nimble acquisition, one party acquired the other party, what we're really looking at is the best breed of both organizations. Whether that's a process, a person, a technology, we don't feel wedded to, "Just because we do it a certain way at HP, that means the Nimble team must conform." It's really, "Bring us the best and brightest." That's what we got. At the end of the day, we got a company, we got revenue, but we got the people, and in this storage business, these are serial entrepreneurs who have actually developed a product, we want to keep those people, and the way you do that is you bring 'em in and you use the best and greatest of all the technologies. There's probably other optimizations we'll look at, but looking at InfoSight across the entire portfolio, and one day maybe across the server portfolio, is the right thing to do. >> And just to follow up on that, Tom, if I may, so that's a hard core of sort of embedded technology, and then you've got a capability, we talk about the API economy all the time. How are you, and are you able to leverage other HPE activities to create infrastructure as code, specifically within the storage group? >> So if you look at us, at our converged systems appliances like our SAP HANA appliance, databases greater than six terabytes, we have 85% market share at Hewlett-Packard. And the way we do that, and that's all on 3PAR by the way, and the way we do that is we've got a fixed system that is designed solely to deliver HANA. On the flip of that, you have Synergy, which is a composable programmable infrastructure from the start, where it's all template-based and based on application provisioning. You provision storage, you provision the fabric, you provision compute. That programmable infrastructure also is supported by HP storage. And so, you have-- You can roll it the way you want to, and to some degree I think it's all about choice. If you want to go along, and build your own programmable infrastructure and OpenStack or VCloud Director, whatever it is, we have one of those. If you think simplicity is key, and app and server integration is important part of how you want to roll it out, we have one of those, that's called SimpliVity. If you want a traditional shared storage environment, we have one of those in 3PAR and Nimble, and if you want composable we have that. Now, choice means more than one, I don't know what it means in Latin or Italian, but I'm pretty sure choice means more than one. What we don't want to do is introduce, however, the complexity of what owning more than one is. And that's where things like Synergy make sense, or federation between SerVirtual and 3PAR, and soon we'll have federation between Nimble and 3PAR. So to help customers with that operational complexity problem, but we actually believe that choice is the most important thing we can provide our customers. >> I've always been a big fan of that compose thing, going back a couple years when you guys came and brought it out to the market. We're first, by the way, props to HP, also first on converged infrastructure way back in the day. I got to ask you, one of the things I love doing with theCUBE interviews is that we get to kind of get inspiration around some of the things that you're working on in your business unit. Back in 2010, Dave and I really kind of saw storage move from being boring storage, provisioning storage, to really the center of the action, and really since 2010 you've seen storage really at the center of all these converging trends. Virtualization, and hyperconverges, all this great stuff, now Cloud, so storage is kind of like the center point of all the action, so I got to ask you the question on virtualization, certainly changed the game with storage. Containerization is also changing the game, so I was telling some HP Labs guys last night that I've been looking at provisioning containers in microseconds. Where virtualization is extending and continuing to have a nice run, on the heels of that we got containerization, where apps are going to start working with storage. What's your vision and how do you guys look at that trend? How are you riding that next wave? >> It all comes down to an application-driven approach. As we were saying a little earlier, our view is that storage will be silent. You're going to provision an application. That's really the-- see, look at the difference between us and, let's say, Nutanix with SimpliVity. It's all about the application being provisioned into the hyperconverged environment. And if you look at the virtualization business alone, VMware's going to have a tough go because Hyper-V has actually gotten good enough, and it's cheaper, but people are really giving Hyper-V a much better look at than we've seen over the course of the last couple years. But guess what? That tool will commoditize, and the next commoditization point is going to be containers. Our vantage point, and if you look at 3PAR, you look at Nimble, we're already got it, we've already supported containers within the product, we've actually invested companies that are container-rich. I think it's all about, "What's the next--" >> And we at Dacron last year said, "We know you're parting with all the guys." But this is a big wave. You see containers as-- >> I see containers as sort of the place that virtualization sort of didn't ever get to. If you look at-- >> John: Well, the apps. >> On the apps absolutely, positively. And also it's a much simpler way to deploy an application over a conventional VM. I think containers will be important. Is it going to be important as the technology inflection point around All Flash? >> John: Flash is certainly very-- >> That I don't know, but I think as far as limiting costs in your datacenter, making it easier to deploy your applications, et cetera, I think containers is the one. >> What's the big news here, at HPE Discover 2017, for you guys? What's the story that you're telling, what's going on in the booth? Share some insight into what's happening here on the ground in Las Vegas from your standpoint. >> So I would say a couple of things. I think if you look out on the show floor, it seems more intimate and smaller this year. And there's a lot of concern, I think, that HP is chopping itself off into various pieces and parts, but I think the story that maybe we're not telling well enough, or that it gets missed, is out of that is actually a brand new company called Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, which is uniquely focused on serving enterprise infrastructure customers. And so I think, if I was going to encourage a news story, it's about the phoenix of that, and not the fact that we've taken the yes guys, and the software guys, and the PC guys. It's that company, maybe in Madrid we'll do this, and that company, that's really, really, really exciting. And as you said, storage; sort of in a Ptolemy versus Galileo approach. We believe everything, first of all, revolves around storage. We don't believe in Galileo. So if you look in here at the booth, we've announced the next generation of MSA platforms of 2052, we've got the 9450 3PAR -- three times as fast, more connectivity for All Flash solutions. We've talked about the secondary Flash array for Nimble, most effective place to protect your data is on an array, is on a type where the data came from, and that is the secondary Flash market. We're big into Cloud, we've talked about CloudBank here, which is the ability to keep a copy of your store-once data in any S3-compliant interface, including Scality. I don't know if I'm forgetting, I'm sure I'm forgetting something. >> John: There's a lot there. >> There's a lot there. >> I mean, you guys, I love your angle on the phoenix. We've been seeing that, we've been covering seven years now, and it is a phoenix. And the point that I think the news media is not getting on HP, there's a lot of fud out there, is that this is not a divested strategy. There's some things that went away that were the outsourcing business, but that was just natural. But this is HP-owned, it's not like it's like we're getting out of that, it's just how you're organizing it. >> And with a balance sheet that now is really a competitive weapon, if you will, you're going to see HP both grow organically and inorganically, and I think as the market continues to consolidate, the thing to remember also is there's fewer places to consolidate to. And so if you're a start-up, there's a handful of companies that you can go to now, and probably the best-equipped, right-sized, great balance sheet, great company, is Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. >> Well we had hoped to get Chris Hsu on, but I've always said the day we talk about the debates on management style, but I've always been a big believer as a computer science undergraduate, decouple highly cohesive strategy is a really viable one, I think that's a great one. >> Yeah, and there's still a good partnership with DXC, there'll be a great partnership with Micro Focus, and there's both financially as well as from a business perspective. But it's really an opportunity to focus, and if I was at another company, I would wonder whether or not if their strategy continues to be appropriate. >> Bill Philbin, senior Vice President and general manager of storage and big data at Hewlett-Packard Enterprises, theCUBE more live coverage after the short break. From Las Vegas, HPE Discover 2017, I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante with theCUBE, we'll be right back after this short break.