>>Good afternoon, brilliant humans, and welcome back to the Cube. We're live in Detroit, Michigan at Cub Con, and I'm joined by John Furrier. John three exciting days buzzing. How you doing? >>That's great. I mean, we're coming down to the third day. We're keeping the energy going, but this segment's gonna be awesome. The CD foundation's doing amazing work. Developers are gonna be running businesses and workflows are changing. Productivity's the top conversation, and you're gonna start to see a coalescing of the communities who are continuous delivery, and it's gonna be awesome. >>And, and our next guess is an outstanding person to talk about this. We are joined by Stephen Chin, the chair of the CD Foundation. Steven, thanks so much for being here. >>No, no, my pleasure. I mean, this has been an amazing week quote that CubeCon with all of the announcements, all of the people who came out here to Detroit and, you know, fantastic. Like just walking around, you bump into all the right people here. Plus we held a CD summit zero day events, and had a lot of really exciting announcements this week. >>Gotta love the shirt. I gotta say, it's one of my favorites. Love the logos. Love the love the branding. That project got traction. What's the news in the CD foundation? I tried to sneak in the back. I got a little laid into your co-located event. It was packed. Everyone's engaged. It was really looked, look really cool. Give us the update. >>What's the news? Yeah, I know. So we, we had a really, really powerful event. All the key practitioners, the open source leads and folks were there. And one of, one of the things which I think we've done a really good job in the past six months with the CD foundation is getting back to the roots and focusing on technical innovation, right? This is what drives foundations, having strong projects, having people who are building innovation, and also bringing in a new innovation. So one of the projects which we added to the CD foundation this week is called Persia. So it's a, it's a decentralized package repository for getting open source libraries. And it solves a lot of the problems which you get when you have centralized infrastructure. You don't have the right security certificates, you don't have the right verification libraries. And these, these are all things which large companies provision and build out inside of their infrastructure. But the open source communities don't have the benefit of the same sort of really, really strong architecture. A lot of, a lot of the systems we depend upon. It's >>A good point, yeah. >>Yeah. I mean, if you think about the systems that developers depend upon, we depend upon, you know, npm, ruby Gems, Mayn Central, and these systems been around for a while. Like they serve the community well, right? They're, they're well supported by the companies and it's, it's, it's really a great contribution that they give us. But every time there's an outage or there's a security issue, guess, guess how many security issues that our, our research team found at npm? Just ballpark. >>74. >>So there're >>It's gotta be thousands. I mean, it's gotta be a lot of tons >>Of Yeah, >>They, they're currently up to 60,000 >>Whoa. >>Vulnerable, malicious packages in NPM and >>Oh my gosh. So that's a super, that's a jar number even. I know it was gonna be huge, but Holy mo. >>Yeah. So that's a software supply chain in actually right there. So that's, that's open source. Everything's out there. What's, how do, how does, how do you guys fix that? >>Yeah, so per peria kind of shifts the whole model. So when, when you think about a system that can be sustained, it has to be something which, which is not just one company. It has to be a, a, a set of companies, be vendor neutral and be decentralized. So that's why we donated it to the Continuous Delivery Foundation. So that can be that governance body, which, which makes sure it's not a single company, it is to use modern technologies. So you, you, you just need something which is immutable, so it can't be changed. So you can rely on it. It has to have a strong transaction ledger so you can see all of the history of it. You can build up your software, build materials off of it, and it, it has to have a strong peer-to-peer architecture, so it can be sustained long term. >>Steven, you mentioned something I want to just get back to. You mentioned outages and disruption. I, you didn't, you didn't say just the outages, but this whole disruption angle is interesting if something happens. Talk about the impact of the developer. They stalled, inefficiencies create basically disruption. >>No, I mean, if, if, so, so if you think about most DevOps teams in big companies, they support hundreds or thousands of teams and an hour of outage. All those developers, they, they can't program, they can't work. And that's, that's a huge loss of productivity for the company. Now, if you, if you take that up a level when MPM goes down for an hour, how many millions of man hours are wasted by not being able to get your builds working by not being able to get your codes to compile. Like it's, it's >>Like, yeah, I mean, it's almost hard to fathom. I mean, everyone's, It's stopped. Exactly. It's literally like having the plug pulled >>Exactly on whenever you're working on, That's, that's the fundamental problem we're trying to solve. Is it, it needs to be on a, like a well supported, well architected peer to peer network with some strong backing from big companies. So the company is working on Persia, include J Frog, which who I work for, Docker, Oracle. We have Deploy hub, Huawei, a whole bunch of other folks who are also helping out. And when you look at all of those folks, they all have different interests, but it's designed in a way where no single party has control over the network. So really it's, it's a system system. You, you're not relying upon one company or one logo. You're relying upon a well-architected open source implementation that everyone can rely >>On. That's shared software, but it's kind of a fault tolerant feature too. It's like, okay, if something happens here, you have a distributed piece of it, decentralized, you're not gonna go down. You can remediate. All right, so where's this go next? I mean, cuz we've been talking about the role of developer. This needs to be a modern, I won't say modern upgrade, but like a modern workflow or value chain. What's your vision? How do you see that? Cuz you're the center of the CD foundation coming together. People are gonna be coalescing multiple groups. Yeah. >>What's the, No, I think this is a good point. So there, there's a, a lot of different continuous delivery, continuous integration technologies. We're actually, from a Linux Foundation standpoint, we're coalescing all the continued delivery events into one big conference >>Next. You just made an announcement about this earlier this week. Tell us about CD events. What's going on, what's in, what's in the cooker? >>Yeah, and I think one of the big announcements we had was the 0.1 release of CD events. And CD events allows you to take all these systems and connect them in an event scalable, event oriented architecture. The first integration is between Tecton and Capin. So now you can get CD events flowing cleanly between your, your continuous delivery and your observability. And this extends through your entire DevOps pipeline. We all, we all need a standards based framework Yep. For how we get all the disparate continuous integration, continuous delivery, observability systems to, to work together. That's also high performance. It scales with our needs and it, it kind of gives you a future architecture to build on top of. So a lot of the companies I was talking with at the CD summit Yeah. They were very excited about not only using this with the projects we announced, but using this internally as an architecture to build their own DevOps pipelines on. >>I bet that feels good to hear. >>Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. >>Yeah. You mentioned Teton, they just graduated. I saw how many projects have graduated? >>So we have two graduated projects right now. We have Jenkins, which is the first graduated project. Now Tecton is also graduated. And I think this shows that for Tecton it was, it was time, the very mature project, great support, getting a lot of users and having them join the set of graduated projects. And the continuous delivery foundation is a really strong portfolio. And we have a bunch of other projects which also are on their way towards graduation. >>Feels like a moment of social proof I bet. >>For you all. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, it's really good. Yeah. >>How long has the CD Foundation been around? >>The CD foundation has been around for, i, I won't wanna say the exact number of years, a few years now. >>Okay. >>But I, I think that it, it was formed because what we wanted is we wanted a foundation which was purpose built. So CNCF is a great foundation. It has a very large umbrella of projects and it takes kind of that big umbrella approach where a lot of different efforts are joining it, a lot of things are happening and you can get good traction, but it produces its own bottlenecks in process. Having a foundation which is just about continuous delivery caters to more of a DevOps, professional DevOps audience. I think this, this gives a good platform for best practices. We're working on a new CDF best practices Yeah. Guide. We're working when use cases with all the member companies. And it, it gives that thought leadership platform for continuous delivery, which you need to be an expert in that area >>And the best practices too. And to identify the issues. Because at the end of the day, with the big thing that's coming out of this is velocity and more developers coming on board. I mean, this is the big thing. More people doing more. Yeah. Well yeah, I mean you take this open source continuous thunder away, you have more developers coming in, they be more productive and then people are gonna even either on the DevOps side or on the straight AP upside. And this is gonna be a huge issue. And the other thing that comes out that I wanna get your thoughts on is the supply chain issue you talked about is hot verifications and certifications of code is such big issue. Can you share your thoughts on that? Because Yeah, this is become, I won't say a business model for some companies, but it's also becoming critical for security that codes verified. >>Yeah. Okay. So I, I think one of, one of the things which we're specifically doing with the Peria project, which is unique, is rather than distributing, for example, libraries that you developed on your laptop and compiled there, or maybe they were built on, you know, a runner somewhere like Travis CI or GitHub actions, all the libraries being distributed on Persia are built by the authorized nodes in the network. And then they're, they're verified across all of the authorized nodes. So you nice, you have a, a gar, the basic guarantee we're giving you is when you download something from the Peria network, you'll get exactly the same binary as if you built it yourself from source. >>So there's a lot of trust >>And, and transparency. Yeah, exactly. And if you remember back to like kind of the seminal project, which kicked off this whole supply chain security like, like whirlwind it was SolarWinds. Yeah. Yeah. And the exact problem they hit was the build ran, it produced a result, they modified the code of the bill of the resulting binary and then they signed it. So if you built with the same source and then you went through that same process a second time, you would've gotten a different result, which was a malicious pre right. Yeah. And it's very hard to risk take, to take a binary file Yep. And determine if there's malicious code in it. Cuz it's not like source code. You can't inspect it, you can't do a code audit. It's totally different. So I think we're solving a key part of this with Persia, where you're freeing open source projects from the possibility of having their binaries, their packages, their end reduces, tampered with. And also upstream from this, you do want to have verification of prs, people doing code reviews, making sure that they're looking at the source code. And I think there's a lot of good efforts going on in the open source security foundation. So I'm also on the governing board of Open ssf >>To Do you sleep? You have three jobs you've said on camera? No, I can't even imagine. Yeah. Didn't >>You just spin that out from this open source security? Is that the new one they >>Spun out? Yeah, So the Open Source Security foundation is one of the new Linux Foundation projects. They, they have been around for a couple years, but they did a big reboot last year around this time. And I think what they really did a good job of now is bringing all the industry players to the table, having dialogue with government agencies, figuring out like, what do we need to do to support open source projects? Is it more investment in memory, safe languages? Do we need to have more investment in, in code audits or like security reviews of opensource projects. Lot of things. And all of those things require money investments. And that's what all the companies, including Jay Frogger doing to advance open source supply chain security. I >>Mean, it's, it's really kind of interesting to watch some different demographics of the developers and the vendors and the customers. On one hand, if you're a hardware person company, you have, you talk zero trust your software, your top trust, so your trusted code, and you got zero trust. It's interesting, depending on where you're coming from, they're all trying to achieve the same thing. It means zero trust. Makes sense. But then also I got code, I I want trust. Trust and verified. So security is in everything now. So code. So how do you see that traversing over? Is it just semantics or what's your view on that? >>The, the right way of looking at security is from the standpoint of the hacker, because they're always looking for >>Well said, very well said, New >>Loop, hope, new loopholes, new exploits. And they're, they're very, very smart people. And I think when you, when you look some >>Of the smartest >>Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, I work with, well former hackers now, security researchers, >>They converted, they're >>Recruited. But when you look at them, there's like two main classes of like, like types of exploits. So some, some attacker groups. What they're looking for is they're looking for pulse zero days, CVEs, like existing vulnerabilities that they can exploit to break into systems. But there's an increasing number of attackers who are now on the opposite end of the spectrum. And what they're doing is they're creating their own exploits. So, oh, they're for example, putting malicious code into open source projects. Little >>Trojan horse status. Yeah. >>They're they're getting their little Trojan horses in. Yeah. Or they're finding supply chain attacks by maybe uploading a malicious library to NPM or to pii. And by creating these attacks, especially ones that start at the top of the supply chain, you have such a large reach. >>I was just gonna say, it could be a whole, almost gives me chills as we're talking about it, the systemic, So this is this >>Gnarly nation state attackers, like people who wanted serious >>Damages. Engineered hack just said they're high, highly funded. Highly skilled. Exactly. Highly agile, highly focused. >>Yes. >>Teams, team. Not in the teams. >>Yeah. And so, so one, one example of this, which actually netted quite a lot of money for the, for the hacker who exposed it was, you guys probably heard about this, but it was a, an attack where they uploaded a malicious library to npm with the same exact namespace as a corporate library and clever, >>Creepy. >>It's called a dependency injection attack. And what happens is if you, if you don't have the right sort of security package management guidelines inside your company, and it's just looking for the latest version of merging multiple repositories as like a, like a single view. A lot of companies were accidentally picking up the latest version, which was out in npm uploaded by Alex Spearson was the one who did the, the attack. And he simultaneously reported bug bounties on like a dozen different companies and netted 130 k. Wow. So like these sort of attacks that they're real Yep. They're exploitable. And the, the hackers >>Complex >>Are finding these sort of attacks now in our supply chain are the ones who really are the most dangerous. That's the biggest threat to us. >>Yeah. And we have stacker ones out there. You got a bunch of other services, the white hat hackers get the bounties. That's really important. All right. What's next? What's your vision of this show as we end Coan? What's the most important story coming outta Coan in your opinion? And what are you guys doing next? >>Well, I, I actually think this is, this is probably not what most hooks would say is the most exciting story to con, but I find this personally the best is >>I can't wait for this now. >>So, on, on Sunday, the CNCF ran the first kids' day. >>Oh. >>And so they had a, a free kids workshop for, you know, underprivileged kids for >>About, That's >>Detroit area. It was, it was taught by some of the folks from the CNCF community. So Arro, Eric hen my, my older daughter, Cassandra's also an instructor. So she also was teaching a raspberry pie workshop. >>Amazing. And she's >>Here and Yeah, Yeah. She's also here at the show. And when you think about it, you know, there's always, there's, there's, you know, hundreds of announcements this week, A lot of exciting technologies, some of which we've talked about. Yeah. But it's, it's really what matters is the community. >>It this is a community first event >>And the people, and like, if we're giving back to the community and helping Detroit's kids to get better at technology, to get educated, I think that it's a worthwhile for all of us to be here. >>What a beautiful way to close it. That is such, I'm so glad you brought that up and brought that to our attention. I wasn't aware of that. Did you know that was >>Happening, John? No, I know about that. Yeah. No, that was, And that's next generation too. And what we need, we need to get down into the elementary schools. We gotta get to the kids. They're all doing robotics club anyway in high school. Computer science is now, now a >>Sport, in my opinion. Well, I think that if you're in a privileged community, though, I don't think that every school's doing robotics. And >>That's why Well, Cal Poly, Cal Poly and the universities are stepping up and I think CNCF leadership is amazing here. And we need more of it. I mean, I'm, I'm bullish on this. I love it. And I think that's a really great story. No, >>I, I am. Absolutely. And, and it just goes to show how committed CNF is to community, Putting community first and Detroit. There has been such a celebration of Detroit this whole week. Stephen, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Best Wishes with the CD Foundation. John, thanks for the banter as always. And thank you for tuning in to us here live on the cube in Detroit, Michigan. I'm Savannah Peterson and we are having the best day. I hope you are too.

>>Ly from San Diego, California. It's the cube covering to clock in cloud native con brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and its ecosystem Marsh. >>Welcome back to San Diego. It's CubeCon cloud native con 2019. You're watching the cube. I'm streaming in my cohost for three days of live coverage is John Troyer and happened at welcome fresh off the keynote stage to my right is as hers as har who's the chief architect for telco at red hat and the man that was behind the scenes for a lot of it, hunting Garcia, telco solutions manager at red hat. A gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us and a very interesting keynote. So you know 5g uh, you know, my background's networking, we all watch it. Um, uh, let's say my telco provider already says that I have something related to five G on my phone that we grumble a little bit about, but we're not going to talk about that where we are going to talk about his keynote. Uh, we had a China mobile up on stage. Uh, maybe a, I love a little bit behind the scenes as you were saying. Uh, you know, the cloud native enabled not just uh, you know, the keynote and what it's living, but it gets a little bit of what >>well, sure. Um, look, when we took on this particular project to build a cloud native environment, uh, for five genes, we spent a lot of time planning and in fact this is a guy who actually did, you know, most of that work, um, to do a lot of planning in terms of picking different components and getting that together. Um, one of the things that cloud native environment allows us to do is bring things up quickly. The resilience part of it and the scale bar, right? Those are the two important components and attributes of cloud native. In fact, what happened last night was obviously one of the circuit breakers trapped and we actually lost power to that particular entire part that is onstage. I mean, nobody knows about this. I didn't talk about it as part of the keynote, but guess what? Through because it was cloud native because it was built in an automated fashion. People were able to work. Yes, they spent about three hours or so to actually get that back up. But we got it back up and running and we showed it live today. But what, I'm not trying to stress on how it failed a white fail. I'm trying to stress on how quickly things came back up and more important. The only cloud native way of doing things could have done that. Otherwise it wouldn't have been possible. All right. >>as, as the man behind the scenes there. Uh, it's great when we have, you know, here's actually the largest telco provider in the world. Uh, you know, showing what it, it's happened. So the title Kubernetes everywhere that telco edge gets a little bit of a hind, the scenes as to kind of the, the, the mission of building the solution and how you got it, you know, your, your, your customers, your partners, uh, engaged and excited to participate in. >> This is what's that very thirsting enterprise through realize. Actually, we took four months around, uh, 15 partners. And, uh, I would say partners >>because in that case, I'm taking, uh, uh, bell Canada and China mobile is a partners. They are part of the project. They were giving us a requirement, helping us all the way to it and together other, uh, more, uh, commercial partners. And of course, uh, as whatsover Allianz, like the team in the and the open interface, Allianz is, we're working with us is, was about 8,200 people working behind the scenes to get this work, uh, to have a lab, uh, directly, completely set up with a full, uh, Fuji containerized MoMA and network in France, uh, have the same in Montreal. Fuji and fogey called directly Montiel as well, uh, in one of our partners, uh, Calum labs and then bringing here the fudgey pop, uh, and have everything connected to the public cloud. So we have everything in there. So all the technology, all the mobile technology was there. >>We have enterprise technology that we're using to connect all the, all the labs and the, and the pop here with the public cloud to. Uh, um, technology and we have of course deployed as, as a, as our, uh, was mentioning. We deployed Kubernete is on the public cloud and we have as well Kubernete is open, rehabbed, open stack, uh, sorry. They had OpenShift container platform running on the, on all the premise in the lab in France and Davi, Marcia and they pop here. Uh, as I say, it was kind of an interesting enterprise. We have some hiccups last night, but uh, we were able to put that out the world telco, >>very specialized, very high service level agreements. I always want by phone to work and so a little bit, uh, uses different terminology than the rest of it sometimes. Right. And MP and VNF and VCO. But so maybe let's real to tell people a little bit like what are we actually talking about here? I mean, people also may not be following edge and, and teleco and what's actually sitting in their home town or, or it used to be embedded chips and none, it was a like Linux, but we're actually talking about installing Kubernetes clusters in a lot of different, really interesting typologies. That's absolutely true actually with the way how, and described it as perfect in the sense that we actually had Kubernetes clusters sitting in a data center environment in France, in Montreal and a remote pop that's sitting here on stage. So it was not just independent clusters but also stretch clusters where we actually had some worker nodes here that will attach back to the Montreal cluster. >>So the flexibility that it gave us was just awesome. We can't achieve that. Uh, you know, in general. But you brought up an interesting topic around, uh, you know, Getty or, uh, or, or the Teleco's operating environment, which is different and cloud native principles has, are a little bit different where they weren't very high availability, they weren't very high reliability with good amount of redundancy. Well, cloud native and actually those attributes to you. But the operational model is very different. You have to almost use codas throwaway hardware as throwaway and do a horizontal scale model to be able to build that. Whereas in the older environment, hardware was a premium switches and routers with a premium and you couldn't have a failure. So you needed all of those, you know, compliance of high availability and upgradability and so on. Here I'm upgrading processes in Linux, I'm upgrading applications. I can go deploy anytime, tear them down. Anytime I'm monitoring the infrastructure, using metrics, using telemetry. That wasn't the case before. So a different operating environment, but it provides actually better residency models than what telcos are actually yesterday. Yeah. >>Um, it's a complicated ecosystem to put all these pieces together. Uh, it gives, gives a little insight as to, uh, you know, red hats, leadership and uh, the, the, the partners that help you put it in. >>I will let him answer that. >>Um, is another, our first rodeo. We have been working on the vitro central office project with the, with the leaner foundation, uh, networking and Hopi NFV community for three last years. Uh, let's say, and the interesting part of this one is that even though we typically get with working with what the technology that they are using now, uh, we decided it's time to go with the technologies that we'll be using from now on. Um, but of course, uh, there is a set of partners that we need. We need to build the infrastructure from scratch. So for example, we have a Lenovo that was bringing all the, all the servers, uh, for the, for the set up in, uh, and here in San Diego, which actually the San Diego pub was built originally in Raleigh, Illinois, facilities and cheap all over the country to here for the show. Uh, and uh, then we have the fabric part. >>So the networking part, that's his cologne. Uh, this was working and bringing us the software defined fabric, uh, to connect all the different future. And then, then we start building this over layers on top. So we have, they had OpenShift container platform for the to completely deploy over metal servers. And then we start adding all the rest of the components, like the four G core fundamental Tran, like dividing for GFG radio from Altron, uh, together with Intel come Scott. That's his building. He started building the mobile part of it in Montreal, a San Diego. And then we add on top of that. Then we start adding the IMS core in the public cloud and then we connect everything through the by tuning. >>So a couple of things that I'd like to highlight in terms of coordinating partners, getting to know when they're ready, figuring out an onboarding process that gives them a sandbox to play with their configurations first before you connect them back into the main environment. Partitioning that working simultaneously with Malden, we had a Slack board that was full of messages every day. We had a nonstop, you know, every morning we had a scam call, right then it's like a scrum meeting every morning, just a daily stand up from eight 30 to nine 30. And we continue that all over the day. >>So as her, one of the things I really like to China mobile, uh, when they talked about in the keynote, first of all they said, you know, the problem is, you know, 20 by 2026, you know, it's, it's rainbows and unicorns and you know, 5g, uh, you know, will help enable so much around the planet. Seriously. Um, but you know, today she, she talked about major challenge in the rollout and infrastructure and service and capability. So, you know, help us understand a little bit the hype from reality of where we are with five G what we could expect. >>Absolutely. We are going through the hype phase right now, right? We are absolutely all the operators want FFG service to be delivered for sure. The reason why they want it to be delivered as they don't want to be left behind. Now there are some operators when we in more opportunistic and looking at 5g as a way to insert themselves into different conversations, IOT conversation, um, smart city conversation, right? Um, edge compute conversation. So they're being very strategic about how the big, the set of technologies, how they go deploy in that particular infrastructure and strategically offer capabilities and build partnerships. Nobody's going to rip out their existing three G four G network and replace that with 5g by 2026. It's not gonna happen, but what will happen by 2026 is an incremental phase of services that will be continued to offer. As an example, I'll give you, um, cable providers are looking at 5g as a way to get into homes because they can deploy in millimeter wave band a radio closer to the house and get a very high speed multi-gigabit high speed connection into the home without having to worry about what's your copper look like? >>Do I have fiber to the home? Do I have fiber to the business and so on. And so. So that's actually an interesting, >>okay, so you're saying solving the last mile issue in a very targeted use. >>Absolutely. So that's one. The other area might be running a partnership with BMW Toyota in, you know, some of these car companies to provide telemetry back from cars into their own, you know, operating environment so that they know what's going on, what's being used, how is it being used, how can we, how can we do provide diagnosis before the car actually begins to fail? Uh, big, you know, private environments like oil and gas mining, they are going to deploy public safety and security where all of these, you know, policemen on and safety personnel are required to now use body cams. Now you have video feeds coming from hundreds of people. There are deployment and incidents. Now you can take that information you need high speed broadband, you need the ability to analyze data and do analytics and provide feedback immediately so that they can actually act. So do three, this specific targeted use case, even a country like India where they're talking about using 5g for very specific use cases, not replacing your phone calling. >>I love that point. And it kind of ties back into some of the other things you were saying about the a agility and the operational model. And I relate it back to it. You know, my, again, my perception of some telco maybe 20 years old and that they had a tendency to do very monolithic projects. And you know, when you're out, when you're rolling out a infrastructure across the country, there's a certain, uh, monolithic nature to it. But you're talking about rolling out one, rolling out individual projects rolling out. That's also the advice we give to it. Try it with one thing, you know, try open shift with that one application and then also though, but it takes uh, the upskilling and the cultural model. So true with your telco petitioners who are, we're on Slack, they're with you and I, you know, I don't, I don't know if there's any relation, any other kinds of things to pull out about the mirror of, of the it transformation with telco transformation and colon Turner. That's actually a good point that you bring up, >>right? Look, the costs of building, if I have infrastructure from ground up is extremely high. If they want to completely revamp that. You're talking about replacing every single radio, you're talking about adding capacity more adding, you know, backhaul capacity and so on. So that isn't going to happen overnight. It's going to happen. It may take even more 10 years. Right. I mean in the most interesting thing, that stat stack that I saw was even LTE is going to grow. LTE subscriber count is going to grow for the next two years before it flatmates. So we're not going to LTE four G that's been around for a decade almost. Right. And it's going to still grow for the next two years, then it's going to flatten and then you'll start to see more 5g subscribers. Now back to the point that you were bringing up in terms of operational model change and in terms of how things will be I D principles applying it principles to telco. >>Um, there are still some challenges that we need to solve in Coobernetti's environment in particular, uh, to address the teleco side of the house. And in fact through this particular proof of concept, that was one of the things we were really attempting to highlight and shine a light on. Um, but in terms of operational models, what use applicable and it will now be totally applicable on the telco network, the CIC pipeline. There's delivery of applications and software that testing and integration, the, you know, um, operational models. Absolutely. Those, in fact, I actually have a number of service providers and telcos that I talked to who are actually thinking about a common platform for it end telco network. And they are now saying, okay, red hat, can you help us in terms of designing this type of a system. So I think what could speak to you a little bit about, uh, in this context is how the same infrastructure can be used for any kind of application. So you want to talk about how the community's platform can be used to deploy CNS and then to deploy applications and how you've shown that. Yeah. Well this is what, >>what we have been doing, right. So we have, uh, the coordinators platform does, is actually deploy and the services we have, all these partners are bringing their Cloudnative uh, function, uh, applications on top of that, that what we are calling the CNF the quantities and network functions. And basically what we were doing as well during the whole process is that we have, those partners are still developing, still finishing the software. So we were building and deploying at the same time and testing on the same time. So during the last four months, and even I can tell you even just to deny >>even last night, so the full CACD pipeline that we deploy in ID side, here it is in operation on the network side. >>Well yeah. So, so I, I want to give you the final word cause you know, John was talking about it cycles, you know, if you think about enterprises, how long they used to take to deploy things, uh, and what cloud data is doing for them. Uh, it sounds like we're going through a similar trends. >>Absolutely big in a big way. Um, telcos are actually deploying a private cloud environment and they're also leveraging public cloud in mind. In fact, sometimes they using public cloud as sandbox for their development to be completed until they get deployed and private. Claremont, they still need the private time enrollment for their own purposes, like security, data sovereignty and uh, you know, their own operational needs. So, but they want to make it as transparent as possible. And in fact, that was one of the things we want to also attempted to show, which is a public cloud today, a private cloud and bare metal, a private cloud on OpenStack. And it was like, and you know, it came together, it worked, but it is real. That's more important. And, uh, for enterprise and for telcos to be literally going down the same path with respect to their applications, their services and their operational models. I think this is really a dream come true. >>Well, congratulations on the demo. Uh, but even more importantly, congratulations on the progress. Great to see, uh, you know, the global impact that's going to have in the telecommunications market. Definitely look forward to hearing more than. >>Thank you very much. Thank you. The opportunity to >>actually be here. All right. For John Troyer, I'm Stu Miniman back with lots more here from CubeCon Claude, date of con 2019 in San Diego, California. Thanks for watching the queue.

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube. Covering NetApp Insight 2017. Brought to you by NetApp. >> Hello everyone, welcome back. We're live in here Las Vegas with NetApp Insight 2017. This is the Cube's exclusive coverage. I'm John Furrier, the host of Cube. Also co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. My co-host Keith Townsend, CTO advisor, talking about the channels, talking about services, talking about data fabric. Our next two guests is Mark Carlton, it's the group technical director of Concorde Technology group, and Adam Bergh who's the data center practice director of Presidio. Guys you're on the front lines. Got the A-Team shirts on. Guys you're on the A-Team, which is a very high bar at NetApp, so congratulations. I've had a few on today already. What's exciting is that this whole digital transformation kind of cliche, it's kind of legit. It's happening. No brainer on that. But it's not a buzzword anymore, it's actually happening. Here's from the front lines. Share your perspective on what this means because most of the folks that are adopting data realize that it's not an after thought. It's fundamental, foundational thinking. But they're busy. They got a lot on their plate. They got dev option, the cloud, and on-premise transformation. They got data governance architecture. They got security practices that are being unbundled from IT. Internet of things over the top. All this stuff's happening. It's crazy. >> Yeah I mean you're absolutely right. So this concept of data transforming and data transformational services was sort of a buzz word three years ago, even when NetApp rolled out this concept of the data fabric right? It really was just a buzz word. It was an idea of freely moving your data in and out of multiple clouds. Not having siloed data. Being able to move your data where you need it when you need it. I mean we're really finally at this point in time, this inflection point where this is a reality for our customers. And I actually want to kind of bring up what NetApp announced here today at insight with ONTAP 9.3. So a little history lesson, NetApp has been promising this data fabric where they're able to freely move data in and out of their different portfolio products. And one of that vision was to move data between their SolidFire platform and their ONTAP platform. So there's two major platforms that they have in the all flash world. So with 9.3 and element 10, which was also announced simultaneously, we actually have the ability now to move data between these two platforms to really start to envision this data fabric world. So I'm really excited that we're actually seeing this vision that was kind of laid out by NetApp three and four years ago. >> That's super hard too by the way. It's not easy, but I got to ask you because, again, in the cloud world you see things like kubernetes, certainly containers has been the rage. But the orchestration aspect of cloud native services in apps is key. You're bringing up an issue around the data. Orchestration of data isn't easy. How do you do it? Okay you can, I get the announcement. SolidFire and ONTAP working well together in 9.3. Is it easy? >> Yep. >> Can you share your thoughts on how easy it is or what needs to be done to set up for that (mumbles)? >> We don't really talk about this, but I'm going to because we saw it today. Cloud orchestrator. >> Yep. >> So this is a gorgeous new interface that NetApp's putting out there to bring that reality of in going to click a button and I'm going to deploy a kubernetes workload. I'm going to deploy doc or I'm going to deploy workloads in Azure. I'm going to deploy a workload in ONTAP on-premises. I'm going to deploy a workload in AWS. And I'm going to be able to freely move that data. I've got a button that's going to make this, the data orchestration happen. It's really fundamentally changing something that's very complex into something that's very easy and accessible to most customers. >> And that's, by the way, the premise of multi-cloud too by the way. So you're saying that they're going to be able to orchestrate and move data across clouds? >> Yes. >> Seamlessly? >> Yeah, across clouds. >> That's hard to do. Mark you have a comment on that? >> Yeah and I think that's really given us the flexibility-- >> John: By the way, not a lot of companies do this probably? >> No, no. And that's why NetApp stands out. And this it makes the conversation with customers really easy now today when we're talking to customers. We're not talking about the technology all the time, we're talking about what you want to do. What do you want to do for your business? How do you want to use your data? How do you want to access your data? And the tools that NetApp are starting to bring out around this, and giving us the capability and flexibility to give control back to the customer. To do what they want to do at that time. They don't have to make them decisions now. So and having that so it's orchestrated across the multiple cloud platforms, and be able to move that data to where the data's best placed for what that business needs is a great conversation to have. We couldn't have that a few years ago. We weren't able to, you were talking about this with data. And now when I talk to customers, I talk about the data fabric, but I don't actually mention it. It's just a strategy in my head. So as I'm going through a conversations, I'm starting to under right what are you wanting to do and how you want me to point it out? >> John: It went from pipe dream to reality basically? >> Yeah. >> Alright so let me just get this so I get right 'cause this again, and we've been looking at this. Not a lot of people do it so we're tracking it. Multi-cloud certainly is what customers want. It's hard to get there. So the question is, every cloud's got a different architecture. S3 and Amazon then how you move and stack it from there is different. It's also different on-prem. So you go back and look at like I got Spark on this, Dupe on this, and I'm pipe lining data here. But then they pipeline it differently (mumbles). So you have different clouds, but then on-prem might be different. How does a, if a customer says okay bottom line me. On-prem, I can move data from on prem to the cloud or is it only across clouds? Or both? >> So we can move data freely, anywhere we want it today. >> Including on premise? >> Today. >> Okay. So let me paint you a picture. Traditional architectures, I'm going to talk about something like a flex pod architecture from NetApp in Sisco. That's your traditional, I'm running traditional workloads on premises. I need some of that data now to flow up into AWS. I spin up instantaneously a cloud ONTAP workload. I click a mouse button, I have a snap mirror to Amazon AWS. Wait a minute. I wanted that data over in Azure. I click a mouse button, I've spun up a cloud ONTAP instance over in Azure, and I've snap mirrored my data over there freely. I want that data back into an S3 type bucket down into on-premises, I'm going to set up a storage grid web scale workload. I can bring that data into an object S3 type data workload instantaneously. I have that data-- >> So your abstracting away the complexity of the cloud so I don't have to rewrite code? >> Adam: Absolutely. >> Does it for you? Alright I'm going to throw-- you guys is good. Cracking the host here. You guys are killin me here. Good, your good. Alright here's a tough one. Okay I got a policy question. I got region in Germany. My data's in Germany, but I replicated it in the U.S., and I don't know what's going on over there. How does a customer deal with that because now in cloud you got regional issues. You got GDPR now going on. So your in the UK, you know what I'm talkin about. So I check the box on the policy. I'm okay in Germany, but my data center in Ireland has replicated data. >> Yeah. >> So this is a really conflict in the privacy. How do you manage that? Is that managed? (speakers talk over each other) >> It genuinely goes down to what sort of data, and what are they doing at the time, or what type of data you're collecting. The conversations I'm having with customers around the GDPR as such because in the UK we're talking about it all the time. Every customer is wanting to talk about are they done the road? Where are they? Try to build that foundation and understanding of-- >> Is that the number one thing you're talkin about to customers is GDPR right now? >> GDPR comes up, you see I wouldn't say it comes up in every conversation. I mean it has to. The main reason it has to is because now we've got that privacy by design so you've got to start to understand as you're designing these solutions and you're designing where this data's going to sit-- >> And the deadline is looming right? I mean I don't know the exact date but-- >> May the 28th in 2018, and it's creeping up. Customers are still sat trying to think about GDPR. They-- >> They're procrastinating till, right. >> Yeah. And I'll still walk into meetings and mention GDPR, and people will look at me and go, "Well what's that." >> You're going, "You're screwed." >> Yeah and we're just getting (mumbles). >> Could be an interesting conversation. >> Y2K all over again. >> It is, and as soon as start getting some (mumbles) conversations. But if you look at what Azure's doing around that NWS, and how they're strengthening that message. Some people are moving it to like an Azure cloud platform because of the GDPR capabilities and the security capabilities that it has, and how that-- And that goes for things like the Office 365 suites and those sorts of areas. Because you're able to start moving your data and freely have that movement, and then we go into things like cloud control and how you can back that up and how we can move the data again from NetApp. It's a software element that gives you the capability to backup Office 365 suites from one cloud to another cloud. >> So GDPR, you see, as a big opportunity for cloud providers like Azure. >> So long as it's-- >> They bring something to the table right? >> Yeah they bring different things to the table. They bring, you have elements of data where you need that on-premise solution. You need to have control, and you need to have that restriction about where that data sits. And some of the talks here that are going on at the moment is understanding, again, how critical and how risky is that data? What is it you're keeping, and what is-- How high does that come up in our business value it is? So if that's going to be your on-premise solution, then maybe other data that can go push out into the cloud. But I would say Azure, the AWS suites, and Google they are really pushing down that security. What you can do, how you can protect it, how you can protect that data, and you've got the capabilities of things like LSR or GSR on having that global reach or that local repositories for the object storage. So you can to control by policies, you can write into this country, but you are not allowed to go to this country and you're not allowed to go to that one. And cloud does give you that to a certain element, but also then you have to step back into maybe search the thing that-- >> So does that make cloud orchestrated more valuable or does it still got more work to do because under what Adam was saying is that the point and click is a great way to provision. >> Man: Mhm. >> Right? You can move onto other things pretty quickly. So in your scenario about the country nuances, does cloud orchestrator handle that too or? >> So the cloud orchestrator will, I mean the promise is that you will be able to pick and choose where you want your data to live. When you want it to move it tomorrow, you know you pick the data center, you pick the geo, you pick your AWS availability zone, and that's where you move your data. You'll have a drop down box that will show you a list of AWS availability zones where your data will live. So if you have specific requirements, specific compliancies that you need to abide by, that will be baked into the application. And if specific requirements change, you can change with it very, very easily. >> John: You can manage a policy to an interface. >> Managing the policy's very easily. And the point being is that we can no longer build silos where your data is stuck in the space that it is. Because of some things like GDPR in Europe or other regulations, you need to have the ability to move that data when you need to. Maybe even at a moment's notice. >> So I got to ask. This is obviously a pressing time in our country, obviously the attacks happened in Vegas. So a lot of people aren't going to make the trip here, have not made the trip, some people stayed at home. So I'd love to ask you guys if you can just take a minute for each of you to share what's exciting that's happening here. Because you know this is a cool announcement. Cloud orchestrator is getting a lot of good buzz. I've been watching the feedback on Twitter from some of the influencers and some of the practitioners. We had a previous guest mention it. What's ah-ha moment here for folks that should know about what's happening that might have missed it because they couldn't make it? >> So I don't know. For me the ah-ha moment was when they said NetApp was finally delivering that the real vision of NVME over fabrics. So we've had a lot of, there's a lot of other storage partners out there that have been talking about NVME as this game changing platform, but really what they're doing's NVME on the backend. Really the promise of NVME is the over the fabric portion of it. NetApp is building into their flagship ONTAP platform a checkbox that says, "I'm going to make this NVME over fabric. "I'm going to make this "storage class memory as a check box." >> John: What's the impact of customers? >> Impact is ultra low latency. Latencies that you can't even achieve with SSDs today. Even with SSDs, NVME on the backend of your controllers. It really is going to enable the high quality analytics. The data services that we just couldn't even achieve at one millisecond latencies, we're down into sub millisecond. .1 millisecond latencies. >> John: So huge performance gains? >> Huge performance gains. It's really going to enable a whole new suite of ideas that we can't even think about. >> And developers will win on this too. It makes data more valuable (mumbles). Mark thoughts on what's exciting here for the folks that couldn't make it? >> I think from my point of view it is that going into orchestration and management point. So leading on from really what Adam was saying then, you were going into developers and how they're going to get the benefit of working with the more performing kit, easier to manage, so they can start to develop that. The orchestration and management and the provisioning and being able to roll out these environments. There's the plugins to some of the areas that we talked about today, and the expansion of that management suite and the ease of that management suit for multiple different users to be able to benefit from it. I want to say from a development and a, or a customers side: the easier we make it to manage, the infrastructure you kind of forget about. Which means you can start to concentrate on the application, how you deliver, what you deliver. And that's really where I see NetApp moving too. It's taken it away from this is the infrastructure and you've got a flexpod, taking it to the next level and going, "Right okay. "Now let's show you what we can do "and how you can use this infrastructure "to be able to benefit your business." And that's one of the big things that I am starting to see. >> The thing I am excited about is the pub initiative. The NetApp.io is the URL. ONTAP, pun intended, you know beer. The developer dev-op story is coming together. I think when you combine some of the Invenio fabric issues is look at the developer pressures to make the infrastructure programmable. That's a huge challenge, and automation's got to be enabled. So I'd love to get your thoughts on how NetApp is positioned visa via what customers want to get to which is, I call self driving infrastructure. Larry Elson calls it self driving databases. But that's pretty much what we want. You want to have under the hood stuff work. But it's the developers and it's using the data in a programmatic way to do automation, hit that machine learning, some of that bounded activity's going to be automated, but then the unbounded data analytics starts to kick in really nicely. >> So element OS is really one of NetApp strategies of what they're calling the next generation data center. And I kind of talk about it with customers as we call it transparent infrastructure to your developers and dev-ops teams. Infrastructure that they don't even have to carry about, care about. That it's highly scalable, highly performant, API driven, cloud like architectures, but on-premise, on-premises so you don't have to worry about cloud sort of data security issues, encryption issues up in the cloud. So you have that cloud like transparent architecture. I mean who knows what hardware runs in the cloud. Do you know what hardware runs in AWS Azure? We don't really care right? >> John: They make their own. >> Yeah we don't care. It works right? It's transparent to the end user, and that's what NetApp is promising really. >> John: Well server-less looks good too right? >> Yeah absolutely. >> Interesting. >> That's really what we're talking about, and that's element OS from NetApp is really the heart of that sort of story. >> Alright so take a step back. You guys are very successful, super smart. Thanks for sharing. It's great conversation, wish we had more time. But the role of the channel is changing. It used to be move boxes through the channel back in the day. That's no longer a storage company. They're a data company, I get that. High level message. I get the positioning. But the reality is you still need to gear to store the stuff on. So still some business there, but the role of the channel and the providers, whether you call em VARS or global (mumbles). You guys in particular have a lot of expertise. The cloud guys are very narrow. They get all the large scale business. But as these solutions start to become vertical, you need data that's specialized to the app, but you want the horizontally scalable benefits of the infrastructure. So you got to balance specialism, which is domain expertise, in a vertical and general, scalable cloud. So that means it's an opportunity for the channel to be basically cloud providers. So the question is, is that happening in your mind? Do you see that playing out because that means bringing technology to the table and using native clouds, not cloud natives, like the native infrastructures of service. 'Cause the action SaaS. Everyone's going to be a SaaS company. >> I mean we're fundamentally turning Presidio in from that traditional, "Hey we're slinging hardware" to a data service is a data management and cloud consulting model where we're even developing our own cloud based tools. Our own cloud based orchestration tools. So we're developing a tool called cloud concierge. So cloud concierge is something that we're not even going to charge for, but what it does it multi-cloud management on-premises, point and click deployment models. Single point of billing infrastructure for multi-cloud charge back and other features like that. So that's where we really see the future of a company like Presidio is something like cloud concierge. >> 'Cause you could bring a lot to the table, so why not build your own tech on top of clouds. >> So we're really becoming a tool company where we're developing our own intellectual property-- >> It's kind of a loaded question, but you guys are on the front lines. It's really kind of, it's more of a directional thing. Mark do you see the same thing in the UK? >> Yeah I was going to say from my point of view we, in our company we deliver infrastructure as a service, platform as a service, backup as a service. So there's lots of different cloud elements that we build within the company. Really that's driven through the conversations, again, we're having with customers. And customers don't, the customers we're talking to and the customers in UK, a lot of them don't jump straight into a cloud opportunity. It's either, like a little bit of data, see what it does, make sure it's the right application. But the, again, that conversation. Because it's changing, our business is having to change. >> Well the purpose of sales channels is to have indirect sales. And companies can't hire people fast enough that actually know the domain specific things. So I see the trend really moving fast along the lines of the specialty channel partners now turning into actual technology partners. >> Yes-- >> So that's going to be a threat to (mumbles) of the world. >> And that's the thing. That's one of the key things. Customers when I talk to them, they're not looking for a partner to sell them something. They're looking for a partner to help them strengthen their IT solutions. >> John: And cross the bridge to the future. >> Yeah. And that's it. And they want a partner they can grow with and keep moving with-- >> Keith you want to get a question in edgewise here? I mean come on buddy. (laughs) >> It was pretty tough. Actually I would like to bring it back to the technology. I'm a technologist at heart. And while this sounds great and magical, one of the practical problems we run into in this type of data mobility is cost and just size of data. So... Let's operationalize this. Bring this down to the ops guy. When, at the end of the month, am I going to see a large egress bill from AWS, Azure. At the end of the month am I going to have the equivalent of bad MPV scores from my internal developers just saying, "Yeah I asked for the data to be moved "from AWS to Azure, "but it was several terabytes and it took several days." So operationalize this for me. Bring it down to the ops perspective. Where is the op cost in this solution. >> NetApp has some really cool technologies around this. I want to talk about one or two real quick. NetApp private storage. This is your own hardware connected to multiple clouds. You want to take that cloud from IBM SoftLayer to Azure to AWS, the data doesn't even have to move. You're basically making a cloud connect through an Equinex data center into multiple clouds. You have the ability to have zero egress charges and multi-cloud hyper scaler access for that for those analytical services. That's one solution. Another one is what's rolling out in the new storage grid web scale 11.0 that NetApp just announced today. It's complete hooks into AWS for all their analytical tools that are prebuilt in AWS. So your data can live on-premises in your own S3 buckets, but you can make API calls into AWS when certain data changes. Where you have the analysis happening in the cloud on your data, but your data never leaves your own physical hardware where you control the data governance of that data. So there are solutions out there that NetApp is really on the forefront of solving these solutions where-- I want my data on-premise. I don't want to pay egress charges, but I still want to take advantage of these amazing services that AWS and Azure are putting together. >> So speedlight. I think we still need to answer that speedlight problem. You know I have, let's say that I go with a CNF like Equinix, and Equinix has data centers across the U.S. and the world practically. But data still has gravity. I can't magically move terabytes of data from one facility, CNF, to another one. What are the limits of the technologies? Where can we go? What are other solutions we need to probably take a look at when it comes to sharing data across geographic regions? >> Yeah so I would say from my point of view, this is when things come into such as our (mumbles) region. And you look at what we're doing with the SJ platforms and how they spread those out because their repositories are moving that data about. And how you can drive that policy driven, you're writing into one place in the background. Then the data is seamlessly moving between different areas. If it's something like a migration where you're actually moving data from one platform to another, there's tools. If you think of things within the MPS solution, which Adam talked about earlier, if it was set within a Equinix building, and you had your express routes and you had your direct connects into the cloud providers that are there, you can use tools that are built into NetApp to actually be able to move that data between those cloud providers or change the VMs and such. It's the virtual machines from a VM platform or hyper V platform, or whichever it'd be to be able to move that using an on command shift tool. So no data is having to move. You're not having to, you've got none of those costs. I think from a management, because of how easy it is to move the data or of the control we have over data now. Using things like OCI and those tools to be able to manage and understand what your costs are, what the drawbacks are, understand where you've got VMs. Do you use that data? A lot of customers don't have that insight. They will go, "I need to move 10 terabytes." Because they think that's what they have. Realistically, 8 terabytes of that data has been sat there, not touched for the last 10 years. And if you move all that 8 terabytes, it's going to cost you money because it's just going to be sat there. You need to move the data that you need to work with. And that's one of the conversations that I have with customers today. It's not about just throwing everything up into the cloud 'cause that's not always the cost effective solution. It's about putting the right data into the right place and the right file solution. So it might be one terabyte needs to go there, but it's what you're going to do with it. Are you going to use it primarily to run analytics again to start to use it to drive the business forward, or is it a terabyte that you're going to sit there and archive. >> Yeah the cheapest data, the cheapest faster data transfer is that transfer you never have to make. So if you don't have to make the data transfer, you'll save money in both time and cost for moving that data. I really appreciate that feedback. >> Guys thanks for coming on the Cube. The A-Team, love when it comes all together. Love the riff on the A-Team. But the bar is high. You guys are really smart. Love the conversation goin back and forth. You guys are answering all the tough questions. Final question for you is, you're on the front lines. The world's changing. What's the advice to your peers out there that are watching? How to attack this environment because how do you win under this pressure? It's a hard game right now, a lot of hard stuff's being done. Whether that's cloud architecting, that's on-prem private cloud, or moving to the cloud. A lot of heavy lifting's going on. It looks easy. I want the magic. I want push button cloud orchestration to consumer apps. Your advice. >> Find a strong partner. So I mean if you're going out there, you're not going to be able to learn everything yourself. You want to have a strong partner that's got a big team. A team that has the breath and scope to deal with some of the big challenges out there that can put together best of breed solutions from multiple vendors. So not just NetApp, not just our cloud partners, but someone who has the breath and depth and scope. Find that right partner that's good for you and your organization. >> John: Mark? >> And I agree in the way of the partnership side of things. That's really what's going to drive customers. In making sure that you've got a partner that you can rely on to be able to move forward. Make sure they can help you understand your business, but you clearly understand what your business is trying to achieve. So it's, I ask people today what's your business? Do you understand your business? Do you understand your customers? And a lot of the time it's yeah. We understand what they do. But they don't understand the business. And it's key to understanding what you need to do, how you need to achieve it, and having a partner that can support you through that phase. >> Awesome, great. Thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it. I would add community as the open source continues to grow, big part of it. Being part of the community, being great partnerships, being transparent. It's the Cube bringing all the data to you here live in Las Vegas for NetApp Insight 2017. I'm John Furrier with Keith Townsend. More live coverage after this short break. >> Woman: Calling all barrier breakers, status quo smashers, world changers.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering VMworld 2017. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partner. (bouncy upbeat music) >> Welcome back to SiliconANGLE Media's production of VMworld 2017. This is theCube. I am your host, Stu Miniman. Happy to be joined for this special segment. Calling it the independent wrap analysis multi-hybrid focus with Blue Cow. Blue Cow is here. First-time guests on the program and Blue Cow has brought a few of the friends. Friends of mine, people that I got to know through this phenomenal VMware community also guest host on the program here. Been a pleasure working with all three of you. John Troyer from Tech Reckoning Justin Warren from Pivot 9 and Keith Townsend, the CTO advisor. Gentlemen, thank you so much for coming here. Now, we're independent when we come to this and I don't think any of us are shy as to kind of sharing our opinions. I think all of us have had "I can't believe what you said on Twitter" at least once. In fact, I remember when John Troyer was working for VMware I did get a call every once in awhile. I've said, if I didn't get a call at least once a year from him saying, "Hey Stu, can you moderate that a little," I'm probably not doing my job. Let's get into it. The first thing I'd say is it's 2017. We blinked and like we're getting towards the end of it. Of course, there's the big party. There's still a whole bunch of sessions going for another day. Reactions on the show, high-level things. Keith, let's start down with you. >> First off, the energy of the show this year was, I have to say it was, I have to say it was up a notch. There was a lot of uncertainty around the acquisition and even Pat's future, whether or not he would be here for the VMworld this year, as the head of VMware he announced, I think it was kind of like with a little bit of pride, that he said "This is my 5th year as CEO of Vmware" and he bought the energy Monday and I think that energy has transferred throughout all of the VMware staff and throughout the show for the past few days. >> Just in that question, of course, and how many selfies has Blue Cow done at the show? >> Not as many as usual, unfortunately, because we've been very, very busy with briefings and meetings, so we haven't had as much selfie time as we've had, but we still make time to take a few photos around the show. And, yeah, I agree with Keith. The energy this year, and I think it had started with the example that Pat set at the first keynote. Which, it's just been lifted this year and I've been saying for, I've been hearing it from a lot of different people and I've been having it in conversations as well that this year, VMware stopped apologizing for existing and it's embraced itself, and I'm sure that having the stock price hit a nice high of a 107, I'm sure that helped with Pat and his idea of, "That makes you happy. Makes it a lot easier for you to keep your job." >> That's great, there was a comment actually The first time most of us remember. The week of Vmworld? The stock actually was going up. John, you know, you've got lots of experience with this community; your take. >> Certainly more energy than last year. I mean, let's look at the micro and the macro. There's always tactical stuff going on. Last year, Vster 6.5 had not been released. Dell acquisition and nobody was sure what was going on exactly. This year, the big VMware cloud on AWS announcement, I think, is an acknowledgement of maybe, that we can talk about. That, wait a minute. Once you get down to the nitty-gritty plumbing infrastructure layer, you still need to partner with somebody like VMware. I think the industry and the analysts, and the market, that's one of the things they like and then look at the macro trends on the economy. If you look at the Expo floor this year? Huge, lots of money being spent, lots of vendors here. There's something macro going on as well with the people here. >> Let's talk about two things I look at. Did VMware meet expectations? Was it what you expect? And, what are we going to be looking back at when we come here? John, I'll start with you, you hit on the big topic from my standpoint, looking at VMware and AWS. What will VMware look like in the future? Are they going to be a SAS provider? How does that transition from an infrastructure software company to a different fit for how they do cloud today versus the whole Vcloud era and everything before it? That was era not error even though, you know... >> Hey, they had a lot to do, of messaging and a lot of product-in announcements and a lot of introductions this week. I don't know, let's give them a B for that because there were a lot of them and they had a lot to do in a short space especially, like, through the lens of say the keynotes which is the lens a lot of people have. I think AWS, VMware Cloud on AWS is the big story. I don't know, I predict that in a year or two VMware will probably be the biggest VMware hoster service provider, right? I think a lot of workloads are going to shift into the AWS service through VMware and that will happen to excess capacity. It'll happens through a lot of different things. But, that's my prediction. >> I'm sorry, you say VMware will-- >> VMware will be the largest VMware hoster within a year or two. >> I feel like I'm watching the NFL Network. Bold predictions, here we have it. VMware has got 4500 partners, John. I've have Ajay Patella on a couple of times talking about his tiers of partners and everything like that. But let's let some of the guys weigh in. >> I'll extend on that, I kind of agree. I think that there's a lot of customers who will basically do a lift and shift and use cloud and I think having to choose between which of their children is the most beautiful and which one they love more has been has been really tearing them apart and I think that now they don't have to make that choice. I think they're going to be a lot easier for, particularly CIOs, to just say, "Yep, I'm doing some cloud." The announcement on Tuesday sort of felt a little flat for me because they were talking about Google container services which is running on Pivotal. Pivotal's sort of an unappreciated part of the whole portfolio, I think. There's a lot of companies some really interesting software development work there. But, as we mentioned, the development community? That's not this community. This is much more about infrastructure people. That kind of whole announcement and what they were talking about on Day 2? Just kind of went, it felt a little bit off for me. >> Yeah, I want to echo, I think a couple of statements that you've made. One, that VMware's seemed to embrace... Monday, they seem to embrace being VMware. You know what? We may pick on the concept of VMware VSphere being cloud. That VMware is very proud of calling their SDDC strategy which is an important strategy. It adds a lot of value to, not just legacy IT but current things that people are doing in their data center and they embraced being what they do well on Monday, and then we had cloud pizza on Tuesday which kind of broke that but I think I loved the message for VCF, VMware Cloud Foundation, this concept, this reference architecture, this validated design that I can run in my data center. I know that at a Rax pace, at a CNF such as... take your Switch, take your choice between Switch and CenturyLink, etc. I'm going to get that consistent openstack what should have been openstack filling across cloud providers, but John, I agree with you. AWS is AWS at the end of the day and it's a easy checkbox to say VMware Cloud on AWS? Really easy to do and it's easy to consume. I don't have to go and choose between Cloud providers. >> One of the things of this show is that there never enough hours in the day, even Vegas. I actually have to admit I got to bed at a reasonable hour every night. We still have one more night for me here so we'll see on that. Hallway conversations, parties, some of the really cool stuff on on the show floor we talked about a little. I'll start off with kind of, from a customer standpoint, Some customers I talked to; a number of them seemed to be, "I want to move faster. "I'm interested in trying new things "and price isn't necessarily number one on my list. "It's further down the list." Which reminds me: It's not quite there yet but I go to Amazon Reinvent and this will be the fifth year and we are doing the Cube at that show. That's the thing that really excites me. There's cool new things we're trying. I echo and agree with a lot of what you all said about Day 2. Most of the customers here aren't ready for PKS. Sure Pivotal has lots of customers that are using Vmware, but the average attendee's not there. Kind of a wild card, customer insights, cool parties, things there. John, do you want to start down on your end? >> Sure, my channel check and the most surprising thing that I saw this week were talking to SC's from VMware and saying that their customers were coming to them and asking "Help? I now have Kubernetes in the house. "What do I do with it?" That surprised me. I have been a Kubernetes and Container advocate but a skeptic as far as adoption and at least anecdotally the folks that I talk to, it sounds like actually it's now trickling its way and kind of to the mainstream to where the VMware accounts are going to be able to have to deal with it. Now I will say on the flip side, Stu, if you look out at the show floor there are no developer tools, dev ops tools, cloud tools, maybe some cloud tools. That side of, that AWS side of the house, the people that are there, those companies that are there who are not here. If you were a customer, if you were an IT person looking to, this year, finally, educate yourself on how to do that that wasn't here at this show. >> For me, it's been about migration. This is about we have a whole bunch of stuff running on VMware, it's already there and that was one of the reasons VMware was popular in the first place, was that you could take stuff you already doing and you can virtualize it and then you could increase the capacity utilization that you have and you could get some more efficiencies out of that and then people started to layer additional services on top of that and to do interesting an new things on that. It allowed them to do that because it kind of freed up some time. I think we're going to say that again as things start to move to the cloud people start to do them in different ways. the workloads will migrate. It's not just going to happen tomorrow and some of the things that we're seeing, one of the things that impressed me about the show was a company called Densify who had been around previously. They were called Server and they did a rebrand and repossession and nailed it and it's a very, very simple tool that actually sells about the business. It's not about a technology, they don't actually talk about how the thing works or what's going on underneath it. But it allows you to understand the effect of what's happening if you move from VMware here over to that cloud, this cloud or the other cloud and it shows you the pricing. I looked at that and just went I can walk into a CFO and I can sell them on the idea just showing them this. That kind of experience, I think, we're going to start seeing a lot more of that as people moved to the cloud. >> So Monday gave me a new catch phrase for VMworld. VMware moves at the speed of the CIO and, you know what? With hallway conversations I still talk to, John, I don't remember like one-third of the attendees of VMworld are all first-time attendees, I talked to a lot of first-time attendees and it's amazing because VMware has an enormous sales team and they are very aggressive getting to accounts and talking about the overall message. I had people coming up to me and saying "Man you know what, I just found out about this "vRealize Log Insight and it's amazing!" and I'm thinking, Wow, that doesn't get much much more traditional IT than log management with vRealize and you know VMware has preached that for the past 5 or 6 years at the show I think it just shows the Delta in the community from those looking to do the developer, dev ops and cloud-native integration. Us, as analysts, pushing VMware saying, "Hey, what's your digital transformation story? "It's something other than cloud pizza," to all the way, to the keeping the lights on with SAP and Oracle apps that will not change and haven't changed and probably won't change for the next 10 to 15 years. >> Yeah and actually it brings up an interesting point; I had a conversation with Pumela this morning and we were talking about how it used to be, come to the show and it's the virtualization show. Now, It's a pretty broad ecosystem and in some ways it's, I wouldn't say fragmented but I'm grasping for a better word because you walk through the show floor and Dentrify, interesting. We had one of their co-founders on as to that kind of cloud management, and how all those pieces, these big hairy issues that people are solving. We've got people working at analytics and data. You've got all the cloud pieces, security all over the place, networking, we've always had storage at the show. But I'd been a little jaded coming to VMworld. It's now my 8th year and I've kind of re-energized this year. I know that some people have stopped coming. There's a new influx coming in. Let's fast-forward to VMworld 2018. What are you hoping to see from this ecosystem? Any final things you'd want to say? "Hey, this is what we can do better?" Or, "This thing, Do it absolutely again especially!" We've got one more year in Vegas then I think we'll probably go back to San Francisco. You've all been to many of these. Where do we start? >> I'll take two. One, is I like'd to see more basketball players and rappers. We had a lot of them on. >> Did you hang with KD? >> I did not. I was busy. He called my people and I don't know if you want tee that one up, what that one is. >> You could mention that absolutely. >> Sure. I mean Rubrik was here winner of the Best of Show of VMworld. Also spent a lot of marketing dollars on Kevin Durant who was also an investor and also Henson Nischlak >> Did they make cards? I'm on a trading card. How hilarious is that? >> Keith: Trading cards were cool, I have one. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> They came to play and and they bought it this year. Marketing dollar spent, I actually have a second predication which is that next year or the year after we'll be talking about, it seemed like VMware and Red Hat are throwing down against each other so I think next year we might be talking about the Dell technologies Red Hat wars in the cloud. >> Open source comes up but hadn't been discussed much except we did some Red Hat interviews here. Red Hat? Absolutely. Hybrid cloud environment, Microsoft, VMware, and Red Hat all players there. John's been thinking about this wrap for a while I know. >> Well I'm going to switch completely differently and into the future what I like to see just to shake it up a little bit. I don't think we should talking about AWS things around containers. I think there will be some of that conversation but what I want to see is that VMware starts hosting a function service. I want to see functions on VMware because I reckon that's where the industry is going to move to in the long time. >> Stu: Serverless, you're saying? >> Yeah, Serverless. >> Like I mentioned on Day two? >> I want to see a functions as a service on VMware on AWS. >> Oh, that will happen. >> There you go product management. That's what you can go build. >> You can tie it into Lambda right now, right? You'll have your... >> yeah but if you're tie it into Lambda that just plays right into AWS's hands. >> Give Chris Wolfe a call and Kit Colbert will make that happen. >> You know what? Full disclosure. I was part of judging for best of VMworld and Rubrik won Best of VMworld. I don't want to see more data protection. I don't want to see more secondary storage. I think one of the driving elements that part of that discussion, pulling back the onion a little bit was about redefining something in the data center that had been forgotten, that API level access Rubrik pushes API level access to the data center. This is something that I've asked from VMware forever which is to basically be the API to my data center. You may not ever, I may never get function as a service. I may never get PaaS, I may never get all these cool things from a developer perspective that I want from VMware but at the very minimum, you're the software defining data center. I want to have APIs into the data center and that data center is not just my physical Data Center but this whole VCF thing that's pushed whether it's in my data center, in Rackspace, or some other VCAMP partner or in AWS. My interface, If infrastructure is going to continue to be VMware's customer then you should enable me from an API perspective to manage my software-defining data center, believe it or not. >> Unfortunately, I love to chat with these gentlemen for hours at a time if I can. We're limited with the queue. We only give you a taste of what's happening at these shows if I've mentioned before, you need to come to these kind of events to talk to these quality people. We also mentioned a few of the sponsors on the show. Sponsorship helps us bring, not only the Cube to the event, but helps me bring high quality, independent analysis from gentlemen like this. Please check out all of our sponsors. Check out all of our content on theCUBE.net. These, all three of them, creating a lot of content. Go to their Twitter handle, @ctoadvisor, @jpwarren, and @jtroyer, I'm @stu. Thank you so much for joining us for our coverage of VMworld 2017. Reach out to all of us. Really, we'll get back to you. 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