(gentle upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back everyone to theCUBE's live coverage here in Boston, Massachusetts for AWS RE:INFORCE 22. I'm John Furrier, your host with Dave Vellante co-host of theCUBE, and Shreyans Metah, CTO and founder of Cequence Security. CUBE alumni, great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Yeah. Thanks for having me here. >> So when we chatted you were part of the startup showcase. You guys are doing great. Congratulations on your business success. I mean, you guys got a good product in hot market. >> Yeah. >> You're here before we get into it. I want to get your perspective on the keynote and the talk tracks here and the show. But for the folks that don't know you guys, explain what you guys, take a minute to explain what you guys do and, and key product. >> Yeah, so we are the unified API protection place, but I mean a lot of people don't know what unified API protection is but before I get into that, just just talking about Cequence, we've been around since 2014. But we are protecting close to 6 billion API transactions every day. We are protecting close to 2 billion customer accounts, more than 2 trillion dollars in customer assets and a hundred million plus sort of, data points that we look at across customer base. That's that's who we are. >> I mean, of course we all know APIs is, is the basis of cloud computing and you got successful companies like Stripe, for instance, you know, you put API and you got a financial gateway, billions of transactions. What's the learnings. And now we're in a mode now where single point of failure is a problem. You got more automation you got more reasoning coming a lot more computer science next gen ML, AI there too. More connections, no perimeter. Right? More and more use cases, more in the cloud. >> Yeah. So what, what we are seeing today is, I mean from six years ago to now, when we started, right? Like the monolith apps are breaking down into microservices, right? What effectively, what that means is like every of the every such microservices talking APIs, right? So what used to be a few million web applications have now become billions of APIs that are communicating with each other. I mean, if you look at the, I mean, you spoke about IOT earlier, I call, I call like a Tesla is an application on four wheels that is communicating to its cloud over APIs. So everything is API yesterday. 80% traffic on internet is APIs. >> Now that's dated transit right there. (laughing) Couldn't resist. >> Yeah. >> Fully encrypted too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, well hopefully. >> Maybe, maybe, maybe. (laughing) We dunno yet, but seriously everything is talking to an API. >> Yeah. >> Every application. >> Yeah. And, and there is no single choke point, right? Like you spoke about it. Like everybody is hosting their application in the cloud environments of their choice, AWS being one of them. But it's not the only one. Right? The, the, your APIs are hosted behind a CDN. Your APIs are hosted on behind an API gateway behind a load balancer in guest controllers. There is no single. >> So what's the problem? What's the problem now that you're solving? Because one was probably I can imagine connecting people, connecting the APIs. Now you've got more operational data. >> Yeah. >> Potential security hacks? More surface area? What's the what's what are you facing? >> Well, I can speak about some of the, our, some of the well known sort of exploits that have been well published, right. Everybody gets exploited, but I mean some of the well knowns. Now, if you, if you heard about Expedian last year there was a third party API that was exposing your your credit scores without proper authentication. Like Facebook had Ebola vulnerability sometime ago, where people could actually edit somebody else's videos online. Peloton again, a well known one. So like everybody is exposed, right. But that is the, the end results. All right? But it all starts with people don't even know where their APIs are and then you have to secure it all the way. So, I mean, ultimately APIs are prone to business logic attacks, fraud, and that's what, what you need to go ahead and protect. >> So is that the first question is, okay, what APIs do I need to protect? I got to take a API portfolio inventory. Is that? >> Yeah, so I think starting point is where. Where are my APIs? Right, so we spoke about there's no single choke point. Right, so APIs could be in, in your cloud environment APIs could be behind your cloud front, like we have here at RE:INFORCE today. So APIs could be behind your AKS, Ingrid controllers API gateways. And it's not limited to AWS alone, right. So, so knowing the unknown is, is the number one problem. >> So how do I find him? I asked Fred, Hey, where are our API? No, you must have some automated tooling to help me. >> Yeah, so, I, Cequence provides an option without any integration, what we call it, the API spider. Whereas like we give you visibility into your entire API attack surface without any integration into any of these services. Where are your APIs? What's your API attack surface about? And then sort of more details around that as well. But that is the number one. Is that agent list or is that an agent? >> There's no agent. So that means you can just sign up on our portal and then, then, then fire it away. And within a few minutes to an hour, we'll give you complete visibility into where your API is. >> So is it a full audit or is it more of a discovery? >> Or both? >> So, so number one, it's it's discovery, but we are also uncovering some of the potential vulnerabilities through zero knowledge. Right? So. (laughing) So, we've seen a ton of lock for J exposed server still. Like recently, there was an article that lock four J is going to be endemic. That is going to be here. >> Long time. >> (laughs) For, for a very long time. >> Where's your mask on that one? That's the Covid of security. >> Yeah. Absolutely absolutely. So, you need to know where your assets are what are they exposing? So, so that is the first step effectively discovering your attack surface. Yeah. >> I'm sure it's a efficiency issue too, with developers. The, having the spider allows you to at least see what's connecting out there versus having a meeting and going through code reviews. >> Yeah. Right? Is that's another big part of it? >> So, it is actually the last step, but you have, you actually go through a journey. So, so effectively, once you're discovering your assets you actually need to catalog it. Right. So, so I know where they're hosted but what are developers actually rolling out? Right. So they are updating your, the API endpoints on a daily basis, if not hourly basis. They have the CACD pipelines. >> It's DevOps. (laughing) >> Welcome to DevOps. It's actually why we'll do it. >> Yeah, and people have actually in the past created manual ways to catalog their APIs. And that doesn't really work in this new world. >> Humans are terrible at manual catalogization. >> Exactly. So, cataloging is really the next step for them. >> So you have tools for that that automate that using math, presumably. >> Exactly. And then we can, we can integrate with all these different choke points that we spoke about. There's no single choke points. So in any cloud or any on-prem environment where we actually integrate and give you that catalog of your APIs, that becomes your second step really. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so. >> What's the third step? There's the third step and then compliance. >> Compliance is the next one. So basically catalog >> There's four steps. >> Actually, six. So I'll go. >> Discovery, catalog, then compliance. >> Yeah. Compliance is the next one. So compliance is all about, okay, I've cataloged them but what are they really exposing? Right. So there could be PII information. There could be credit card, information, health information. So, I will treat every API differently based on the information that they're actually exposing. >> So that gives you a risk assessment essentially. >> Exactly. So you can, you can then start looking into, okay. I might have a few thousand API endpoints, like, where do I prioritize? So based on the risk exposure associated with it then I can start my journey of protecting so. >> That that's the remediation that's fixing it. >> Okay. Keep going. So that's, what's four. >> Four. That was that one, fixing. >> Yeah. >> Four is the risk assessment? >> So number four is detecting abuse. >> Okay. >> So now that I know my APIs and each API is exposing different business logic. So based on the business you are in, you might have login endpoints, you might have new account creation endpoint. You might have things around shopping, right? So pricing information, all exposed through APIs. So every business has a business logic that they end up exposing. And then the bad guys are abusing them. In terms of scraping pricing information it could be competitors scraping pricing. They will, we are doing account take. So detecting abuse is the first step, right? The fifth one is about preventing that because just getting visibility into abuse is not enough. I should be able to, to detect and prevent, natively on the platform. Because if you send signals to third party platforms like your labs, it's already too late and it's too course grain to be able to act on it. And the last step is around what you actually spoke about developers, right? Like, can I shift security towards the left, but it's not about shifting left. Just about shifting left. You obviously you want to bring in security to your CICD pipelines, to your developers, so that you have a full spectrum of API securities. >> Sure enough. Dave and I were talking earlier about like how cloud operations needs to look the same. >> Yeah. >> On cloud premise and edge. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Edge is a wild card. Cause it's growing really fast. It's changing. How do you do that? Cuz this APIs will be everywhere. >> Yeah. >> How are you guys going to reign that in? What's the customers journey with you as they need to architect, not just deploy but how do you engage with the customer who says, "I have my environment. I'm not going to be to have somebody on premise and edge. I'll use some other clouds too. But I got to have an operating environment." >> Yeah. "That's pure cloud." >> So, we need, like you said, right, we live in a heterogeneous environment, right? Like effectively you have different, you have your edge in your CDN, your API gateways. So you need a unified view because every gateway will have a different protection place and you can't deal with 5 or 15 different tools across your various different environments. So you, what we provide is a unified view, number one and the unified way to protect those applications. So think of it like you have a data plane that is sprinkled around wherever your edges and gateways and risk controllers are and you have a central brains to actually manage it, in one place in a unified way. >> I have a computer science or computer architecture question for you guys. So Steven Schmidt again said single controls or binary states will fail. Obviously he's talking from a security standpoint but I remember the days where you wanted a single point of control for recovery, you talked about microservices. So what's the philosophy today from a recovery standpoint not necessarily security, but recovery like something goes wrong? >> Yeah. >> If I don't have a single point of control, how do I ensure consistency? So do I, do I recover at the microservice level? What's the philosophy today? >> Yeah. So the philosophy really is, and it's very much driven by your developers and how you want to roll out applications. So number one is applications will be more rapidly developed and rolled out than in the past. What that means is you have to empower your developers to use any cloud and serverless environments of their choice and it will be distributed. So there's not going to be a single choke point. What you want is an ability to integrate into that life cycle and centrally manage that. So there's not going to be a single choke point but there is going to be a single control plane to manage them off, right. >> Okay. >> So you want that unified, unified visibility and protection in place to be able to protect these. >> So there's your single point of control? What about the company? You're in series C you've raised, I think, over a hundred million dollars, right? So are you, where are you at? Are you scaling now? Are you hiring sales people or you still trying to sort of be careful about that? Can you help us understand where you're at? >> Yeah. So we are absolutely scaling. So, we've built a product that is getting, that is deployed already in all these different verticals like ranging from finance, to detail, to social, to telecom. Anybody who has exposure to the outside world, right. So product that can scale up to those demands, right? I mean, it's not easy to scale up to 6 billion requests a day. So we've built a solid platform. We've rolled out new products to complete the vision. In terms of the API spider, I spoke about earlier. >> The unified, >> The unified API protection covers three aspects or all aspects of API life cycle. We are scaling our teams from go to market motion. We brought in recently our chief marketing officer our chief revenue officer as well. >> So putting all the new, the new pieces in place. >> Yeah. >> So you guys are like API observability on steroids. In a way, right? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Cause you're doing the observability. >> Yes. >> You're getting the data analysis for risk. You're having opportunities and recommendations around how to manage the stealthy attacks. >> From a full protection perspective. >> You're the API store. >> Yeah. >> So you guys are what we call best of breed. This is a trend we're seeing, pick something that you're best in breed in. >> Absolutely. >> And nail it. So you're not like an observability platform for everything. >> No. >> You guys pick the focus. >> Specifically, APS. And, so basically your, you can have your existing tools in place. You will have your CDN, you will have your graphs in place. So, but for API protection, you need something specialized and that stuff. >> Explain why I can't just rely on CDN infrastructure, for this. >> So, CDNs are, are good for content delivery. They do your basic TLS, and things like that. But APIs are all about your applications and business that you're exposing. >> Okay, so you, >> You have no context around that. >> So, yeah, cause this is, this is a super cloud vision that we're seeing of structural change in the industry, a new thing that's happening in real time. Companies like yours are be keeping a focus and nailing it. And now the customer's can assemble these services and company. >> Yeah. - Capabilities, that's happening. And it's happening like right now, structural change has happened. That's called the cloud. >> Yes. >> Cloud scale. Now this new change, best of brief, what are the gaps? Because I'm a customer. I got you for APIs, done. You take the complexity away at scale. I trust you. Where are the other gaps in my architecture? What's new? Cause I want to run cloud operations across all environments and across clouds when appropriate. >> Yeah. >> So I need to have a full op where are the other gaps? Where are the other best of breed components that need to be developed? >> So it's about layered, the layers that you built. Right? So, what's the thing is you're bringing in different cloud environments. That is your infrastructure, right? You, you, you either rely on the cloud provider for your security around that for roll outs and operations. Right? So then is going to be the next layer, which is about, is it serverless? Is it Kubernetes? What about it? So you'll think about like a service mesh type environment. Ultimately it's all about applications, right? That's, then you're going to roll out those applications. And that's where we actually come in. Wherever you're rolling out your applications. We come in baked into that environment, and for giving you that visibility and control, protection around that. >> Wow, great. First of all, APIs is the, is what cloud is based on. So can't go wrong there. It's not a, not a headwind for you guys. >> Absolutely. >> Great. What's a give a quick plug for the company. What are you guys looking to do hire? Get customers who's uh, when, what, what's the pitch? >> So like I started earlier, Cequence is around unified API protection, protecting around the full life cycle of your APIs, ranging from discovery all the way to, to testing. So, helping you throughout the, the life cycle of APIs, wherever those APIs are in any cloud environment. On-prem or in the cloud in your serverless environments. That's what Cequence is about. >> And you're doing billions of transactions. >> We're doing 6 billion requests every day. (laughing) >> Which is uh, which is, >> A lot. >> Unheard for a lot of companies here on the floor today. >> Sure is. Thanks for coming on theCUBE, sure appreciate it. >> Yeah. >> Good, congratulations to your success. >> Thank you. >> Cequence Security here on theCUBE at RE:INFORCE. I'm chatting with Dave Vellante, more coverage after this short break. (upbeat, gentle music)

>>Mhm Yes. Welcome to this cube conversation. I'm john Kerry host of the cube here in Palo alto California. We've got two great guests all the way from Ohio and here in the bay area with sequence securities is our focus on cloud growth companies. Sri and met a co founder and CTO of sequence security and Jason Kent hacker in residence at sequence security. We're gonna find out what that actually means in the second but this is a really important company in the sense of A P. I. S. As they are starting to be the connective tissue between systems and and data. Um you're starting to see more vulnerabilities, more risk but also more upside. So risk, reward is high. And anyone who's doing things in the cloud obviously deals with the A. P. I. So Trey and Jason. Thanks for let's keep conversation. >>Happy to be here >>guys. Let's let's talk about A P. I. Security. And but first before we get there trans what does sequence security do? What do you guys specifically build? And what do you sell >>sequences in the business protecting your web and um A P. I. S from various kinds of attacks? Uh We protect from business logic attacks, A P. I. Uh do your api inventory, uh also the detect and defend against things like a town taker. Where's fake account creation, scraping pretty much anything and everything. An application on a PDA is exposed to from from the Attackers. >>Jason. What do you what do you do there as hacker and residents? I also want to get your perspective on api security from the point of view of, you know, uh attack standpoint from a vector. How are people doing it? So first explain what you do and uh love the title hacker and residents. But also what does that actually mean from a security standpoint? >>Yeah. So we can't be in the business that we're in without having an adversarial approach to where our customers are deployed and how we look at them. So a lot of times I spend my time trying to be on the client's backdoors and and try to hit their A. P. I. S. With as many kinds of attacks that I can. It helps us understand how an attacker is going to approach a specific client as well as helps us tune for our machine learning models to make sure that we can defend against those kinds of things. Um as a hacker and residents, my mostly my position is client facing. But I do spend an awful lot of time being research and looking for the next api threat that's out there. >>You gotta stay ahead of the bad guys. But let's bring up some kind of cutting edge relevant topics. One is all over the news cycle. You heard peloton, very highly visible company, It represents that new breed of digital companies that have a new approach and it's absolutely doing very, very well. The new consumers like this product and you're seeing a lot more peloton, like companies out there that are leveraging technology, so they're fully integrated, they had an A. P. I. Issue recently. Um what does it mean? Is that, is that something we're gonna see more of these kind of leaks in these kind of vulnerabilities? What do you guys think about this political thing, >>You know, from an attacker's perspective as a really boring attack? Um, but it led to a huge amount of data leaking out. Same with, you know, the news has been been right with this lately, right, john Deere got hit. Um We've seen yet another credit bureau got hit right. Um and these attacks are coming off as fairly simple attacks that are dumping huge amounts of data, just proving that the FBI attack surface is really a great place to get a rich amount of data, but you have to have a good understanding of how the application works so you can spend a little bit of time on it. But once you've taken a look at how the data flows, you end up with, you know, pretty rich data set as an attacker. I go after them just by simply utilizing their products, utilizing the programs and understanding how they work. And then I drag out all the pieces that I think are going to be interesting and start plucking away at it. If I see a like a profile, for instance, that I can edit, I wonder can I edit someone else's profile. And this is how the peloton attack work. I'm logged in, I'm allowed to see my things, what other things can I see? And it turns out they can see everything. >>So we also saw a hack with clubhouse, which is the hot app now I think just opened up to android users, but they were simply calling it back and Agora, which is, you know, I've seen china, but once you've understood that the tokens work, once you understood what they were doing, you could essentially go in and figure things out. There seems to be like pretty like trivial stuff, but it gets exposed. No one kind of thinks it through. How does someone protect themselves against these things? Because that's the real issue, like just make it less secure. Our Api is gonna be more secure in the future. What can customers do about what do you guys to think about this? >>Yeah, but the reality is, I mean that's just uh too many babies out there. I mean if you see the transition that is happening and that is the transformation where it used to be like a one app or two apps before and now there are like hundreds and thousands of applications driven by the devops world, a child development and and what matters is, I mean the starting point really is you cannot protect what, you cannot see what used to be. Uh an up hosted in your data center is now being hosted in the cloud environments, in the virtual environments, in several less environments and coordinators, you name it, they're out there. So the key is really to understand your attack surface, that's your starting point. So you're you're tooling your applications need to uh I need to be able to provide that visibility that that that is needed to protect these applications and you can't rely just on your developers to do this for you. So you need a right tool that can secure these applications, >>Jason what's the steps that an attacker takes to uncover vulnerabilities? What goes through the mind of the attacker? Um I mean the old days you used to just do port scans and try to penetrate you get through the perimeter. Now with this no perimeter mindset, the surface area Schramm was talking about is huge. What what's going on the mind of the attacker here and the A P I S and vulnerabilities. >>So the very first thing that we do is we sign up for an account, we use the thing, right? We look at all the different endpoints. Um I've got scripts running in my attack tools that do things like show me comments uh in case the developer left some comments in there to tell me where things are. Um I basically I'm just going to poke around using it like a regular user, but in that I'm going to look for places. That makes sense to try to do an attack. So the login screen is a really easy thing. Everybody understands that you put in a user name, you put in a password, you can't go. What I'm gonna do is put in a bad username and a bad password. I'm gonna put in a good user name and a bad password and I'm gonna see what changes, what are the different things that your application is telling me. And so when we look at an application for flaws and ways to get to the data on the back end, all we're doing is seeing what data do you present me on standard use. And then I'm going to look at, well, how can I change these parameters or what are the things that I can change in my requests to get a different response? So in the early phases of an attack, Attackers are very difficult to a seat. Right. They just look like a regular user just doing regular things. It's when we decide. All right. I've found something that starts to get actually interesting and we start to try to pull data out. >>What are some of the common vulnerabilities and risks that you guys see in the A. P. I is when you look when you poke at them that people are are doing is that they're not really doing their homework. Doing good. Security designers are just more of tech risk. What's the most common vulnerabilities and risks? >>Well, so for me, I I've noticed a lot of the OAS KPI top 10, the first couple of things you see them on almost all applications, so broken object level authorization is the first one. It's mouthful. Um but basically all it is is I log onto the platform, I'm authorized to be there, but I can see someone else's stuff and that's exactly what happened in peloton. Um that and what we call insecure direct object reference where I don't have to be logged in, I can just make the request without any authentication and get information back. So those are pretty common areas um that you know people need to focus on, but there's a few others that are outside the top 10 that really make a lot more sense as a defender strains probably has a little better answer to me. >>Yeah. So um I'm like like we said um creating that inventories is key, but where are they being hostess? Another another aspect of things. So so when when Jason spoke about um like hackers are actually probing, trying to figure out what are the different entry points? It could be your production environment, it could be your QA environment staging environment and you're not even aware of, but once you've actually figured out those entry points, the next step of attack was like at peloton and and other places is really eggs filtering. Exfiltrate ng that that information. Right. Is it, is it the O P II information, ph I information um and and you don't want to exfiltrate as a hacker, just one person's information. You you're automating that business logic that is behind it ability to protect and defend against those kinds of attacks, giving that visibility, even though you might not have instrumented that application for for that kind of visibility is key. Once you are bubbling up those behaviors, then you can go ahead and and and protect from these kinds of attacks. And it could be about just simply enumerating through I. D. S. Uh that paladin might have or uh experience might have and just enumerate through that and exfiltrate the information behind it. So the tools need to be able to protect from those kinds of attacks out there. >>Yeah, I think I was actually on clubhouse when um that went down that hole enumerating through the I. D. S. Room I. D. S. And then the people just querying once they got an I. D. They essentially just sucked all the content out because they were just calling the back end. It was just like the most dumbest thing I've ever seen, but they didn't think about, I mean, you know, they were just rushing really fast. So So the question I have for transit and on a defense basis, people are going first party um with a P. I. S. A. P. I. First strategies because it's just some benefits there as we were talking about what do I need to do to protect myself? So I don't have that clubhouse problem or the pelton problem. Is there a Is there a playbook or is their software tools that I could use? How do I build? My apologies from day one and my principles around it to be good hygiene or good design? What's the what's the >>yeah. So aPI security is sort of a looking uh less known given that it's constantly evolving and changing. And the adoption of A P. S. Have gone up significantly. So what you need to start with effectively is the runtime security aspect of things. When a an aPI is live, how do I actually protected? And it ranges from simple syntactic protection things around people. Can can go ahead and break these ap is by providing sort of uh going after endpoints that you don't think exist anymore or going after certain functions by giving large values that they're not sort of coded to accept and so on so forth. Once you've done that runtime protection from a syntactic aspect, you also need to protect from a business logic aspect. I mean, mps will will expose uh information, interact with the customers and partners, what what business logic are they actually exposing and how can it be abused? Understanding that is another big aspects and then you can go ahead and protect from a runtime uh from a long time security perspective, once you've done that and understood that, well then you can start shifting lap things, invest in your uh sort of uh Dass tools or static analysis tools which can catch these things early so that they don't bubble up all the way, but none of them are actually silver bullets, right? So that you have a good uh time security tools, so I don't need to invest in dust or assessed whatever I have invested in my shift left aspect of things and uh and nothing will flow through. So you you need to start shifting left uh but covered all your bases properly, >>you can't shift left, there's nothing to shift from. I mean if you don't have that baseline foundation, what does that even mean to shift left and get that built into the Ci cd pipeline? So that's a great point. How does how does someone and some companies and teams set that foundation with the run time? Do you think it's a critical problem right now or most people are do a good job or they just get get lazy or just lose track of it or you know what, what's what's the common um, use case? Do you see behavior behaviorally inside these enterprises? >>Yeah. So what, what we're seeing is adoption of new technologies and environments um, and they're not um, well suited for the traditional way of doing that time. Security. Like if if you have an app running in your kubernetes environment, if you have an app running in in in a serval less environment, how do you actually protected with the traditional appliance based approach? So I think being able to get that visibility into these environments, understanding the the user behavior, how these applications are interacted with being able to differentiate from that uh, normal human behavior or even sometimes legitimate automation uh from from the malicious intents or or the the probing and the business logic attacks is key to understanding and defending these applications. >>Before we wrap up, I want to just get your expert opinion since you guys are both here around, you know, the next level of of innovation. Also you got cloud public cloud showed us a P. I. S are great. Now you're starting to see cloud operations, they call day two operations or whatever you call it A IOP. There's all kinds of buzz words are for it, but hybrid cloud and multi cloud, Edge five G. These are all basically pointing to distributed computing systems, basically distributed cloud. So that means more A P. I. Is gonna be out there. Um So in a way the surface area of a piece is increasing. What's your what's your view on this as a market? I mean, early days developing fast and what's, what's the, what's the landscape look like? What do you guys see from a attack and defense standpoint? >>Well, just from the attacker's perspective, you know, I see a lot more traffic going, what we call east west traffic, where it's traveling inside the application, it's a P is feeding a ps more data. Um, but what is really happening is we're trying to figure out how to hook third parties into our api is more and more. The john Deere attack was just simply their development api platform that they open up for other organizations to integrate with them. Um, you know, it's, it's very beneficial for John Deere to be able to say I planted this seed at an inch and a half of depth and later, uh, I harvested 280 bushels of corn off that acres. So I know that's perfect. I can feed that back to my seed guy. Well that kind of data flow that's going around from AP to AP means that there's far more attack surface and we're going to see it more and more. I I don't think that we're going to have less Ap is communicating in the near future. I think this is the foundation that we're building for what it's gonna look like for almost every business in the near term. >>I mean this is the plumbing of integration. I mean as people work with each other data transfer, data knowledge format, you mentioned syntax and all these basic things in computer science are coming to A PS which was supposed to be just a dumb pipe or just, you know, rest api those glory days now it's not there. They're basically, it's basically connections. >>Yeah. You're absolutely right. John, I mean like what Jason mentioned earlier, uh, in terms of the way the A. P. I. S are going to grow and the bad guys are going to go after it. You need to think like a bad guy, what are they going to go after? Uh, these assets that are going to be in the cloud, in your hybrid environment, in in your own prem environment. And, and it's, it's a flip of a switch where an internal API can be externally exposed or, or just a new api getting rolled out. So all those things you need to be able to protect, um, and get that visibility first and then being then protect these environments. >>That's awesome. You guys represent the new kind of company that's going to take advantage of the cloud scale and as people shift to the new structural change and people are re factoring security, This is an area that's going to be explosive in development. Obviously the upside is huge. Um Quickly before to end, you guys take a minute to give a plug for the company. Um This is pretty cool. I love love what you guys do. I think it's very relevant and cool at the same time. So sequence security. What are you guys doing funding hiring? What's the plug? Tell folks about it. >>Yeah. So uh we we we started about six years ago but we like starting in the the body defense space by focusing on obscenity ice. And from then we we've grown and we've grown significantly in terms of our customer base, the verticals that we're going after in financial retail social media, you name it, we are there because pretty much all these these uh articles depends on A. P. I. S. To interact with their customers. Uh We've we've raised our cities we last year we've we've grown our customer base. Uh Just in the last year when there was a lockdown people were all these retailers were transforming from brick and mortar to online. Social media also also grew and we grew with them. So >>Jason your thoughts. >>I think that sequence is his ability to scale out to any size environment. We've got a customer that does a billion and a half transactions a month. Um That are ap is from 1000 other clients of theirs. Being able to protect environments that are confusing and cloudy like that. Um Is really it makes what we do shine. We use a lot of machine learning models and ai in order to surface real problems. And we have a lot of great humans behind all of that, making sure that the bad guy maybe they're right now, but they're going away and we're going to keep them away. >>It's super, super awesome. I think it's a combination of more connections, distributed computing at large scale with a data problem. That's, that's playing out. You guys are solving great stuff and hey, you know when the cube studio ap I gets built, we're gonna need to call you guys up to to help us secure the cube data. >>Absolutely right. Absolutely. >>Hey, thanks for coming on the q Great uh, great insight and thanks for sharing about sequence. Appreciate you coming on, >>appreciate the time. >>Okay. It's a cube conversation here in Palo alto with remote guests. I'm john for your host. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>> Announcer: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick with theCUBE. We're in our Palo Alto Studios on this kind of continuing leadership series that we've put together. Reaching out to the community for tips and tricks on kind of getting through what is, this kind of ongoing COVID crisis and situation as it continues to go weeks and weeks and weeks. And I'm really excited to have one of my favorite members of our community, is Nick Mehta, the CEO of Gainsight. Had the real pleasure of interviewing him a couple times and had to get him on. So Nick, thanks for taking some time out of your very busy day to join us. >> Jeff, honored to be here, thank you. >> Pleasure, so let's just jump into it. One of the reasons I wanted to get you on, is that Gainsight has been a distributed company from the beginning, and so I think the COVID, suddenly everyone got this work from home order, there was no prep, there was no planning, it's like this light switch digital transformation moment. So love to hear from someone who's been doing it for awhile. What are some of the lessons? How should people think about running a distributed company? >> Yeah, it's really interesting, Jeff, 'cause we are just by happenstance, from the beginning, distributed where we have, our first two offices were St. Louis and Hyderabad, India. So two places you cannot get there through one flight. So, you have to figure out how to collaborate asynchronously and then over time, we have offices in the Bay Area. We have tons of people that work from home. And so we try to tell people we don't have a headquarters. The headquarters is wherever you are, wherever you live and wherever you want to work. And so we've always been super flexible about come in to the office if you want, don't come in, et cetera. So different than some companies in that respect. And because of that, pre-COVID, we always a very heavy video culture, lots of video conferencing. Even if some people were in an office, there's always somebody else dialing in. One benefit we got from that is you never had to miss your kids' stuff or your family things. I would go to my daughter's performance in the middle of the day and know I can just dial into a call on the way there. And so we always had that. But what's amazing is now we're all on a level playing field, there's nobody in our office. And I got to say, this is, in some ways, even better 'cause I feel like when you're the person dialed in, and a lot of people are in a room, you probably had that experience, and it feels like you're kind of not on the same playing field, right? Hard to hear the jokes or the comments and you might not feel like you're totally in crowd, so to speak, right? But now everyone's just at their computer, sitting there in a chair all day doing these Zooms and it does feel like it's equalizing a little bit. And what it's caused us to do is say, hey, what are ways we can all recreate that community from home? So as an example, every 7:45 a.m. every day, we have a Zoom call that's just pure joy and fun. Trivia, pets, kids. The employees' kids announce people's birthdays and the weather. And so these ways we've been able to integrate our home and our work that we never could before, it's really powerful. It's a tough situation overall, and we feel for all the people affected. But even in tough situations, there are silver linings, and we're finding 'em. >> Yeah, it's funny, we just had Darren Murph on the other day. I don't know if you know Darren. He is the head of Remote Work at GitLab, and he-- >> Oh, yeah. >> And he talked about kind of the social norms. And one of the instances that he brought up was, back in the day when you had some people in the office, some people joining via remote, that it is this kind of disharmony because they're very different situations. So one of his suggestions was have everybody join via their laptop, even if they're sitting at their desk, right? So, as you said, you get kind of this level playing field. And the other thing which dovetails off what you just said is he always wanted executives to have a forcing function to work from home for an extended period of time, so they got to understand what it's all about. And it's not only looking through a little laptop or this or that, but it's also the distractions of the kids and the dogs and whatever else is happening around the house. So it is wild how this forcing function has really driven it. And his kind of takeaway is, as we, like say, move from can we get it into cloud to cloud first? And does it work on mobile to mobile first? >> Now it's really-- >> Yeah. >> It's really remote first. And if you-- >> Remote first. >> A remote first attitude about it and kind of turn it on it's head, it's why shouldn't it be remote versus can it be remote? It really changes the conversation and the dynamic of the whole situation. >> I love that. And just, GitLab, by the way, has been a true inspiration 'cause they are the most remote, remote company. And they share so much, I love what you said. As just two examples of reacting to what you said, pre-COVID, we always wanted to keep a level playing field. So we actually moved our all-hands meetings to be instead of being broadcast from one room, and you're kind of seeing this small screen with all these people, we all just were at computers presenting. And so everyone's on a level playing field. So I thought what GitLab said is great. And then the other point, I think post-COVID we have learned is the kids and the dogs aren't distractions, they're part of our life. And so embracing those and saying, hey, I see that kid in the background, bring them onto the screen. Even during work meetings, even customer meetings, you know? And I'm seeing, I'm on a customer meeting and the customer's bringing their kids onto the screen and it's kind of breaking this artificial wall between who we are at home and who we are at work 'cause we're human beings all throughout. At Gainsight, we talk about a human first approach to business and we've never been more human as a world than we are right now. >> Love it, love it. So another, get your thoughts on, is this whole idea of measurement and productivity at home. And it's really, I have to say, disturbing to see some of the new product announcements that are coming out in terms of people basically snoopin' on people. Whether it's trackin' how many hours of Zoom calls they're on, or how often are they in the VPN, or having their camera flip on every so many minutes or something. We had Marten Mickos on, who's now the CEO of HackerOne. He was CEO at MySQL years ago before it went to Sun and he had the great line, he said, it's so easy to fake it at the office, but when you're at home and you're only output is your deliverable, it makes it a lot easier. So I wonder if you can share some of your thoughts in terms of kind of managing output, setting expectations, to get people to get their work done. And then, as you see some of these new tools for people that are just entering this thing, it's just not right (chuckles). >> Yeah, I agree with you and Marten. I'm a huge fan of Marten, as well, I totally agree with both of it. And I think there's an older approach to work, which is more like a factory. It's like you got to see how many widgets you're processing and you got to micromanage and you got to monitoring and inspecting. Look, I don't run a factory, so maybe there are places where that model makes sense. So I'm not going to speak for every leader, but I could say if you're in a world where your job is information, services, software, where the value is the people and their knowledge, managing them that way is a losing battle. I go back to, some folks probably know, this famous TED Talk by Dan Pink on basically what motivates people. And in these knowledge worker jobs, it's autonomy, mastery and purpose. So autonomy, we have the freedom to do what we want. Mastery, we feel like we're getting better at jobs. And purpose, which is I have a why behind what I do. And I think, take that time you spend on your micromanagement and your Zoom, analyzing the Zoom sessions, and spend it on inspiring your team, on the purpose. Spend it on enabling your team in terms of mastery. Spend it on taking away barriers so they have more autonomy. I think you'll get way more out of your team. >> Yeah, I agree. I think it's, as Darren said, again, he's like, well, would you trust your people if you're on the fourth floor and they're on the sixth? So just-- >> Yeah, exactly. >> If you don't trust your people, you got to bigger issue than worrying about how many hours they're on Zoom, which is not the most productive use of time. >> People waste so much time in the office, and getting to the office. And by the way, I'm not saying that it's wrong, it's fine too. But it's not like the office is just unfettered productivity all the time, that's a total myth. >> Yes, so let's shift gears a little bit and talk about events. So, obviously, the CUBE's in the event business. We've had to flip completely 'cause all the events are, well, they're all going digital for sure, and/or postponing it or canceling. So we've had to flip and do all dial-ins and there's a whole lot of stuff about asynchronous. But for you, I think it's interesting because as a distributed company, you had Gainsight Pulse as that moment to bring people together physically. You're in the same boat as everybody else, physical is not an option this year. So how are you approaching Gainsight Pulse, both because it's a switch from what you've done in the past, but you at least had the benefit of being in a distributed world? So you probably have a lot of advantages over people that have never done this before. >> Yeah, that's a really interesting, insightful observation. So just for a context, Pulse is an event we do every year to bring together the customer success community. 'Cause, as you observed, there is value in coming together. And so this is not just for our employees, this is for all the customer success people, and actually increasingly product management people out there, coming together around this common goal of driving success for your customers. And it started in 2013 with 300 people, and last year, we had 5,000 people at our event in San Francisco. We had similar events in London and Sydney. And so it's a big deal. And there's a lot of value to coming together physically. But obviously, that's not possible now, nor is it advisable. And we said, okay, how do we convert this and not lose what's special about Pulse? And leverage, like you said, Jeff, the fact that we're good at distributed stuff in general. And so we created what we call Pulse Everywhere. We didn't want to call it Pulse Virtual or something like that, Pulse Webinar, because we didn't want to set the bar as just like, oh, my virtual event, my webinar. This is something different. And we called it Everywhere, 'cause it's Pulse wherever you are. And we joke, it's in your house, it's in your backyard, it's on the peloton, it's walking the dog. You could be wherever you are and join Pulse this year, May 13th and 14th. And what's amazing is last year we had 5,000 people in person, this year we already have 13,000 people registered as of the end of April. And so we'll probably have more than three times the number of people at Pulse Everywhere. And we're really bringing that physical event concept into the virtual, literally with, instead of a puppy pit, where you're in a physical event, you'll bring puppies often, we have a puppy cam where you can see the puppies. We're not giving up on all of our silly music videos and jokes and we actually ship cameras and high-end equipment to all the speakers' houses. So they're going to have a very nice digital experience, our attendees are. It's not going to be like watching a video conference call. It's going to be like watching a TV show, one much like what you try to do here, right? And so we have this amazing experience for all of our presenters and then for the audience. And we're really trying to say how do we make it so it feels like you're in this really connected community? You just happen to not be able to shake people's hands. So it's coming up in a few weeks. It's a big experiment, but we're excited about it. >> There's so many conversations, and we jumped in right away, when this was all going down, what defines a digital event? And like you, I don't like the word virtual. There's nothing fake or virtual. To me, virtual's second to life. And kind of-- >> Yeah. >> Video game world. And like you, we did, it can't be a webinar, right? And so, if you really kind of get into the attributes of what is a webinar? It's generally a one-way communication for a significant portion of the allocated time and you kind of get your questions in and hopefully they take 'em, right? It's not a truly kind of engaged process. That said, as you said, to have the opportunity to separate creation, distribution and consumption of the content, now opens up all types of opportunity. And that's before you get into the benefits of the democratization, as you said, we're seeing that with a lot of the clients we work with. Their registration numbers are giant. >> Totally. >> Because-- >> You're not traveling to spend money, yeah. >> It'll be curious to see what the conversion is and I don't know we have a lot of data there. But, such a democratizing opportunity. And then, you have people that are trying to force, as Ben Nelson said on, you know Ben from Minerva, right? A car is not a mechanical horse, they're trying to force this new thing into this old paradigm and have people sit for, I saw one today, 24 hours, in front of their laptop. It's like a challenge. And it's like, no, no, no. Have your rally moment, have your fun stuff, have your kind of your one-to-many, but really there's so much opportunity for many-to-many. >> Many-to-many. >> Make all the content out there, yeah. >> We've created this concept in this Pulse Everywhere event called Tribes. And the idea is that when you go to an event, the goal is actually partially content, but a lot of times it's connection. And so in any given big event, there's lots of little communities out there and you want to meet people "like you". Might be people in a similar phase of their career, a similar type of company, in our case, it could be companies in certain industry. And so these Tribes in our kind of Pulse Everywhere experience, let people break out into their own tribes, and then kind of basically chat with each other throughout the event. And so it's not the exact same thing as having a drink with people, but at least a little bit more of that serendipitous conversation. >> Right, no, it's different and I think that's really the message, right? It's different, it's not the same. But there's a lot of stuff you can do that you can't do in the physical way, so quit focusing on what you can't do and embrace what you can. So that's great. And good luck on the event. Again, give the plug for it. >> Yeah, it's May 13th and 14th. If you go to gainsightpulse.com you can sign up, and it's basically anything related to driving better success for your customers, better retention, less churn, and better product experience. It's a great event to learn. >> Awesome, so I want to shift gears one more time and really talk about leadership. That's really kind of the focus of this series that we've been doing. And tough times call for great leadership. And it's really an opportunity for great leaders to show their stuff and let the rest of us learn. You have a really fantastic style. You know I'm a huge fan, we're social media buddies. But you're very personable and you're very, kind of human, I guess, is really the best word, in your communications. You've got ton of frequency, ton of variety. But really, most of it has kind of this human thread. I wonder if you can share kind of your philosophy behind social, 'cause I think a lot of leaders are afraid of it. I think they're afraid that there is reward for saying something stupid is not worth the benefit of saying okay things. And I think also a lot of leaders are afraid of showing some frailty, showing some emotion. Maybe you're a little bit scared, maybe we don't have all the answers. And yet you've really, you're not afraid at all. And I think it's really shines in the leadership activities and behaviors and things you do day in and day out. So how do you think about it? What's your strategy? >> Yeah, it's really interesting you ask, Jeff, because I'm in a group of CEOs that get together on a regular basis, and I'm going to be leading a session on social media for CEOs. And honestly, when I was putting it together, I was like, it's 2020, does that still need to exist? But somehow, there is this barrier. And I'll talk more about it, but I think the barrier isn't just about social media, it's just about how a CEO wants to present herself or himself into the world. And I think, to me, the three things to ask yourself are, first of all, why? Why do you want to be on social media? Why do you want to communicate to the outside? You should have a why. Hopefully you enjoy it, but also you're connecting from a business perspective with your customers. And for us, it's been a huge benefit to really be able to connect with our customers. And then, who are you targeting? So, I actually think an important thing to think about is it's okay to have a micro-audience. I don't have millions of Twitter followers like Lady Gaga, but within the world of SaaS and customer success and retention, I probably have a decent number. And that means I can really connect with my own specific audience. And then, what. So, the what is really interesting 'cause I think there's a lot of non-obvious things about, it's not just about your business. So I can tweet about customer success or retention and I do, but also the, what, about you as an individual, what's happening in your family? What's happening in the broader industry, in my case of SaaS? What's happening in the world of leading through COVID-19? All the questions you've asked, Jeff, are in this lens. And then that gets you to the final which is the, how. And I think the, how, is the most important. It's basically whether you can embrace the idea of being vulnerable. There's a famous TED Talk by Brene Brown. She talks about vulnerability is the greatest superpower for leaders. I think the reason a lot of people have a hard time on social media, is they have a hard time really being vulnerable. And just saying, look, I'm just a human being just like all of you. I'm a privileged human being. I have a lot of things that luckily kind of came my way, but I'm just a human being. I get scared, I get anxious, I get lonely, all those things. Just like all of you, you know. And really being able to take off your armor of, oh, I'm a CEO. And then when you do that, you are more human. And it's like, this goes back to this concept of human first business. There's no work persona and home persona, there's just you. And I think it's surprising when you start doing it, and I started maybe seven, eight, nine years ago, it's like, wow, the world wants more human leaders. They want you to just be yourself, to talk about your challenges. I had the kids, when we got to 13,000 registrations for Pulse Everywhere, they pied me in the face. And the world wants to see CEOs being pied in the face. Probably that one, for sure, that's a guaranteed crowd pleaser. CEOs being pied in the face. But they want to see what you're into outside of work and the pop culture you're into. And they want to see the silly things that you're doing. They want you to be human. And so I think if you're willing to be vulnerable, which takes some bravery, it can really, really pay off for your business, but I think also for you as a person. >> Yeah, yeah. I think it's so insightful. And I think people are afraid of it for the wrong reasons, 'cause it is actually going to help people, it's going to help your own employees, as well, get to know you better. >> Totally, they love it. >> And you touched on another concept that I think is so important that I think a lot of people miss as we go from kind of the old broadcast world to more narrow casting, which is touching your audience and developing your relationship with your audience. So we have a concept here at theCUBE that one is greater than 1% of 100. Why go with the old broadcast model and just spray and you hope you have these really ridiculously low conversion rates to get to that person that you're trying to get to, versus just identifying that person and reaching out directly to those people, and having a direct engagement and a relative conversation within the people that care. And it's not everybody, but, as you said, within the population that cares about it it's meaningful and they get some value out of it. So it's a really kind of different strategy. So-- >> I love that. >> You're always get a lot of stuff out, but you are super prolific. So you got a bunch of projects that are just hitting today. So as we're getting ready to sit down, I see you just have a book came out. So tell us a little bit about the book that just came out. >> Sure, yeah, it's funny. I need to get my physical copy too at my home. I've got so a few, just for context. Five years ago, we released this first book on "Customer Success" which you can kind of see here. It's surprising really, really popular in this world of SaaS and customer success and it ties, Jeff, to what you just said which is, you don't need to be the book that everyone in the world reads, you need to be the book that everyone in your world reads. And so this book turned out to be that. Thousands of company management teams and CEOs in software and SaaS read it. And so, originally when this came out, it was just kind of an introduction to what we call customer success. Basically, how do you retain your customers for the long-term? How do you get them more value? And how do you get them to use more of what they've bought and eventually spend more money with you? And that's a mega-trend that's happening. We decided that we needed an update. So this second book is called "Customer Success Economy." It just came out, literally today. And it's available on Amazon. And it's about the idea that customer success started in tech companies, but it's now gone into many, many industries, like healthcare, manufacturing, services. And it started with a specific team called the customer success management team. But now it's affecting how companies build products, how they sell, how they market. So it's sort of this book is kind of a handbook for management teams on how to apply customer success to your whole business and we call it "Customer Success Economy" 'cause we do think the future of the economy isn't about marketing and selling transactional products, but it's about making sure what your customers are buying is actually delivering value for them, right? That's better for the world, but it's also just necessary 'cause your customers have the power now. You and I have the power to decide how to transport ourselves, whether it's buying a car or rideshare, in the old world when we could leave our house. And we have the power to decide how we're going to stay in a city, whether it's a hotel or Airbnb or whatever. And so customers have the power now, and if you're not driving success, you're not going to be able to keep those customers. And so "Customer Success Economy" is all about that. >> Yeah, and for people that aren't familiar with Gainsight, obviously, there's lots of resources that they can go. They should go to the show in a couple weeks, but also, I think, the interview that we did at PagerDuty, I think you really laid out kind of a great definition of what customer success is. And it's not CRM, it has nothing to do with CRM. CRM is tracking leads and tracking ops. It's not customer success. So, people can also check that. But I want to shift gears again a little bit because one, you also have your blog, MehtaPhysical, that came out. And you just came out again recently with a new post. I don't know when you, you must have a army of helper writers, but you talk about something that is really top of mind right now. And everyone that we get on theCUBE, especially big companies that have the benefit of a balance sheet with a few bucks in it, say we want to help our customers, we want to help our people be safe, obviously, that's first. But we also want to help our customers. But nobody ever really says what exactly does that mean? And it's pretty interesting. You lay out a bunch of things that are happening in the SaaS world, but I jumped on, I think it's number 10 of your list, which is how to think about helping your customers. And you give some real specific kind of guidance and guidelines and definitions, if you will, of how do you help our customers through these tough times. >> Yeah, so I'll summarize for the folks listening. One of the things we observed is, in this terrible tough times right now, your customers are in very different situations. And for simplicity, we thought about three categories. So the companies that we call category one, which are unfortunately, adversely affected by this terrible crisis, but also by the shutdown itself, and that's hotels, restaurants, airlines, and you can put other folks in that example. What do those customers need? Well, they probably need some financial relief. And you have to figure out what you're going to do there and that's a hard decision. And they also just need empathy. It's not easy and the stress level they have is massive. Then you've got, on the other extremes, a small number of your customers might be doing great despite this crisis or maybe even because of it, because they make video conferencing technology or remote work technology, or they make stuff for virtual or telemedicine. And those folks actually are likely to be super busy because they're just trying to keep up with the demand. So what they need from you is time and help. And then you got the people in between. Most companies, right, where there may be a mix of some things going well, some don't. And so what we recommended is think about your strategy, not just inside out, what you want, but outside in, what those clients need. And so as an example, you might think about in that first category, financial relief. The second category, the companies in the middle, they may need, they may not be willing to spend more money, but they may want to do more stuff. So maybe you unlock your product, make it available, so they can use everything in your suite for a while. And maybe in that third category, they're wiling to spend money, but they're just really busy. So maybe you offer services for them or things to help them as they scale. >> Yeah, so before I let you go, I just want to get your reaction to one more great leader. And as you can tell, I love great leaders and studying great leaders. Back when I was in business school we had Dave Pottruck, who at that time was the CEO of Schwab, come and speak and he's a phenomenal speaker and if you ever get a chance to see him speak. And at that point in time, Schwab had to reinvent their business with online trading and basically kill their call-in brokerage for online brokerage, and I think that they had a fixed price of 19.99, whatever it was. This was back in the late 90s. But he was a phenomenal speaker. And we finished and he had a small dinner with a group of people, and we just said, David, you are a phenomenal speaker, why, how, why're you so good? And he goes, you know, it's really pretty simple. As a CEO, I have one job. It's to communicate. And I have three constituencies. I kind of have the street and the market, I have my internal people, and then I have my customers and my ecosystem. And so he said, I, and he's a wrestler, he said, you know I treated it like wrestling. I hired a coach, I practiced my moves, I did it over and over, and I embraced it as a skill and it just showed so brightly. And it's such a contrast to people that get wrapped around the axle with their ego, or whatever. And I think you're such a shiny example of someone who over communicates, arguably, in terms of getting the message out, getting people on board, and letting people know what you're all about, what the priorities are, and where you're going. And it's such a sheer, or such a bright contrast to the people that don't do that that I think is so refreshing. And you do it in a fun and novel and in your own personal way. >> That's awesome to hear that story. He's a inspirational leader, and I've studied him, for sure. But I hadn't heard this specific story, and I totally agree with you. Communication is not something you're born with. Honestly, you might know this, Jeff, or not, as a kid, I was super lonely. I didn't really have any friends and I was one of those kids who just didn't fit in. So I was not the one they would pick to be on stage in front of thousands of people or anything else. But you just do it over and over again and you try to get better and you find, I think a big thing is finding your own voice, your own style. I'm not a super formal style, I try to be very human and authentic. And so finding your style that works for you, I agree, it's completely learnable. >> Yeah, well, Nick, thank you. Thanks for taking a few minutes. I'm sure you're super, super busy getting ready for the show in a couple weeks. But it's always great to catch up and really appreciate you taking some time to share your thoughts and insights with us. >> Thank you, Jeff, it's an honor. >> All right, he's Nick Mehta, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE. Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time. (soft music)

from the cube studios in Palo Alto in Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world this is a cube conversation hey welcome back here writer jeff rick here with the cube we're in our Palo Alto studios you know kind of continuing our leadership coverage reaching out to the community for people that we've got in our community to get their take on you know how they're dealing with the Kovach crisis how they're helping to contribute back to the community to to bring their resources to bear and you know just some general good tips and tricks of getting through these kind of challenging times and we're really excited to have one of my favorite guests he's being used to come on all the time we haven't had them on for three years which I can't believe it sabi Mehta the CEO of true SATA founder to say to obby I checked the record I can't believe it's been three years since we last that down great to see you Jeff there's well first of all it's always a pleasure and I think the only person to blame for that is you Jeff well I will make sure that it doesn't happen again so in just a check-in how's things going with the family the company thank you for asking you know family is great we have I've got two young kids who have become video conferencing experts and they don't teach me the tricks for it which I'm sure is happening a lot of families around the world and the team is great we vent remote at this point almost almost two months ago down and can't complain I think their intellectual property business like you are so it's been a little easier for us to go remote compared to a lot of other businesses in the world and in America but no complaints it'll be very fortunate we are glad that we have a business and a company that can withstand the the economic uncertainty and the family's great I hope the same for the queue family I haven't seen Dave and John and it's good to see you again and I hope all of you guys are helped happy and healthy great I think in we're good so thank you for asking so let's jump into it you know one of the things that I've always loved about you is you know really your sense of culture and this kind of constant reinforcing of culture in your social media posts and the company blog post at true SATA you know celebrating your interns and and you really have a good pulse for that and you know I just I think we may even talked about it before about you know kind of the CEOs and leadership and and social media those that do and that and those that don't and you know I think it's it's probably from any kind of a risk reward trade-off you know I could say something group it versus what am I getting at it but really it's super important and in these times with the distributed workforce that the the importance and value of communicating and culture and touching your people frequently across a lot of different mediums and topic areas is is more important than ever before share with us kind of your strategy why did you figure this out early how have you you know kind of adjusted you know your method of keeping your team up and communicating absolutely like I guess I owe you guys a little bit of gratitude for it which is we launched our company and you know I'm showing a member on the cube it was a social media launch you know if you say that say it like that I think there are two or three things that are very important Jeff and you hit on all of them one is the emphasis on information sharing it becomes more important than times like these and we as as a society value the ability to share a positive conversation of positive perspective and a positive outlook more but since day zero at the seder we've had this philosophy that there are no secrets it is important to be open and transparent both inside and outside the company and that our legacy is going to be defined by what we do for the community and not just what we do for our shareholders and by its very nature the fact that you know I grew up in a different continent now live and call America now a different continent my home I guess I was it's very important for me to stay connected to my roots it is a good memory or reminder that the world is very interconnected unfortunately the pandemic is the is the best or worst example of it in a really weird way but I think it's also a very important point Jeff that I believe we learned early and I hope coming out from this is something that we don't lose the point you made about kindness social media and social networking has a massively in my opinion massively positive binding force for the world at the same time there were certain business models it tried to capitalize on the negative aspects of it you know whether they are the the commercialized versions of slam books or not so nice business models that capitalize on the ability for people to complain I hope that people society and us humans coming out of it learn from people like yourself or you know the small voice that I have on social media or the messages we share and we are kinda in what we do online because the ability to have networks that are viral and can propagate or self propagate is a very positive unifying force and I hope out of this pandemic we all realize the positive nature's of it more than the negative nature's of it because unfortunately as you know that our business models built on the negative forces of social media and I really really hope they're coming out of this are positive voices drown out the negative voices that's great point and and it's a great I want to highlight a quote from one of your blog's again I think you're just a phenomenal communicator and in relationship to what's going on with kovat and and I quote we are fighting fear pain and anxiety as much as we are fighting the virus this is our humble attempt to we'll get into what you guys did to help the thousands of first responders clerks rockstars but I just really want to stick with that kindness theme you know I used to or I still joke right that the greatest smile in technology today is our G from signal FX the guys are gonna throw up a picture of him he's a great guy he looks like everybody's favorite I love that guy but therefore signal effects and actually it's funny signal FX also launched on the cube at big data a big data show I used to say the greatest smile intact is avi Mehta I mean how can I go wrong and and what I when I reached out to you I I do I consciously thought what what more important time do we have than to see people like you with a big smile with the great positive attitude focusing on on the positives and and I just think it's so important and it segues nicely into what we used to talk about it the strata shows and the big data shows all the time everyone wanted to talk about Hadoop and big data you always stress is never about the technology it's about the application of the technology and you focus your company on that very where that laser focus from day one now it's so great to see is we think you know the bad news about kovat a lot of bad news but one of the good news is is you know there's never been as much technology compute horsepower big data analytics smart people like yourself to bring a whole different set of tools to the battle than just building Liberty ships or building playing planes or tanks so you guys have a very aggressive thing that you're doing tell us a little bit about is the kovat active transmission the coat if you will tell us about what that is how did it come to be and what are you hoping to accomplish of course so first of all you're too kind you know thank you so much I think you also were the first people to give me a hard time about my new or Twitter picture I put on and he said what are you doing RV you know you have a good smile come on give me the smile die so thank you you're very kind Jeff I think as I as we as you know and I know I think you've a lot to be thankful for in life and there's no reason why we should not smile no matter what the circumstance we have so much to be thankful for and also I am remiss happy Earth Day you know I'm rocking my green for Earth Day as well as Ramadan Kareem today is the first day of Ramadan and you know I I wish everybody in the world Ramadan Kareem and on that friend right on that trend of how does do we as a community come together when faced with crisis so Court was a very simple thing you know it's I'm thank you for recognizing the hard work of the team that led it it was an idea I came up with it you know in the shower I'm like there are two kinds of people or to your you can we have we as humans have a choice when history is being made which I do believe I do believe history is being made right whether you look at it economically and a economic shock and that we have not felt as humanity since the depression so you look at it socially and again something we haven't seen sin the Spanish blue history is being made in in these times and I think we as humans have a choice we can either be witnesses to it or play our part in helping shape it and coat was our humble tiny attempt to when we look back when history was being made we chose to not just sit on the sidelines but be a part of trying to be part of the solution so all riddled with code was take a small idea I had team gets the entire credit read they ran with it and the idea was there was a lot of data being open sourced around co-ed a lot of work being done around reporting what is happening but nothing was being done around reporting or thinking through using the data to predict what could happen with it and that was code with code we try to make the first code wonder oh that came out almost two weeks ago now when you first contacted us was predicting the spread and the idea around breaking the spread wasn't just saying here is the number of cases a number of deaths and know what to be very off we wanted to provide like you know how firefighters do can we predict where it may go to next at a county by county level so we could create a little bit of a firewall to help it from stop you know have the spread of it to be slower in no ways are we claiming that if you did port you can stop it but if he could create firewalls around it and distribute tests not just in areas and cities and counties where it is you know spiking but look at the areas and counties where it's about to go to so we use a inner inner in-house Network algorithm we call that Orion and we were able to start predicting where the virus is gonna go to we also then quickly realize that this could be an interesting where an extra you know arrow and the quiver in our fight we should also think about where are there green shoots around where can recovery be be helped so before you know the the president email announced this it was surrender serendipitous before the the president came and said I want to start finding the green shoes to open the country we then did quote $2 which we announced a week ago with the green shoots around a true sailor recovery index and the recovery index is looking at its car like a meta algorithm we're looking at the rates of change of the rates of change so if you're seeing the change of the rates of change you know the meta part we're declining we're saying there are early shoots that we if as we plan to reopen our economy in our country these are the counties to look at first that was the second attempt of code and the third attempt we have done is we calling it the odd are we there yet index it got announced yesterday and now - you're the first public announcement of it and the are we there yet index is using the government's definition of the phase 1 phase 2 phase 3 and we are making a prediction on where which are the counties that are ready to be open up and there's good news everywhere in the country but we we are predicting there are 73 different counties that ask for the government's definition of ready to open are ready to open that's all you know we were able to launch the app in five days it is free for all first responders all hospital chains all not-for-profit organizations trying to help the country through this pandemic and poor profit operations who want to use the data to get tests out to get antibodies out and to get you know the clinical trials out so we have made a commitment that we will not charge for code through - for any of those organizations to have the country open are very very small attempt to add another dimension to the fight you know it's data its analytics I'm not a first responder this makes me sleep well at night that I'm at least we're trying to help you know right well just for the true heroes right the true heroes this is our our humble attempt to help them and recognize that their effort should not go to its hobby that that's great because you know there is data and there is analytics and there is you know algorithms and the things that we've developed to help people you know pick they're better next purchase at Amazon or where they gonna watch next on Netflix and it's such a great application no it's funny I just finished a book called ghost Bob and is a story of the cholera epidemic in London in like 1850 something or other about four but what's really interesting at that point in time is they didn't know about waterborne diseases they thought everything kind of went through the air and and it was really a couple of individuals in using data in a new and more importantly mapping different types of datasets on top of it and now this is it's as this map that were they basically figured out where the the pump was that was polluting everybody but it was a great story and you know kind of changing the narrative by using data in a new novel and creative way to get to an answer that they couldn't and you know they're there's so much data out there but then they're so short a date I'm just curious from a data science point of view you know um you know there there aren't enough tests for you know antibodies who's got it there aren't enough tests for just are you sick and then you know we're slowly getting the data on the desk which is changing all the time you know recently announced that the first Bay Area deaths were actually a month were they before they thought they were so as you look at what you're trying to accomplish what are some of the great datasets out there and how are you working around some of the the lack of data in things like you know test results are you kind of organizing pulling that together what would you like to see more of that's why I like talking to you so I missed you you are these good questions of me excellent point I think there are three things I would like to highlight number one it doesn't take your point that you made with the with the plethora of technical advances and this S curve shift that these first spoke at the cube almost eleven years ago to the date now or ten years ago just the idea of you know population level or modeling that cluster computing is finally democratized so everybody can run complicated tests and a unique segment or one and this is the beauty of what we should be doing in the pandemic I'm coming I'm coming I'm quite surprised actually and given the fact we've had this S curve shift where the world calls a combination of cloud computing so on-demand IO and technical resources for processing data and then the on-demand ability to store and run algorithms at massive scale we haven't really combined our forces to predict more you know that the point you made about the the the waterborne pandemic in the eighteen eighteen hundreds we have an ability as humanity right now to actually see history play out rather than write a book about it you know it has a past tense and it's important to do are as follows number one luckily for you and I the cost of computing an algorithm to predict is manageable so I am surprised why the large cloud players haven't come out and said you know what anybody who wants to distribute anything around predictions lay to the pandemic should get cloud resources for free I we are running quote on all three cloud platforms and I'm paying for all of it right that doesn't really make sense but I'm surprised that they haven't really you know joined the debate or contribute to it and said in a way to say let's make compute free for anybody who would like to add a new dimension to our fight against the pandemic number one but the good news is it's available number two there is luckily for us an open data movement you know that was started on the Obama administration and hasn't stopped because you can't stop open movements allows people companies like ours to go leverage know whether it's John Hancock Carnegie Mellon or the new data coming out of you know California universities a lot of those people are opening up the data not every single piece is at the level we would like to see you know it's not zip plus 4 is mostly county level it's available the third innovation is what we have done with code but not it's not an innovation for the world right which is the give get model so we have said we will curate everything is available lie and boo cost anybody is used but they're for purposes and computations you want to enrich it every organization who gives code data will get more out of it so we have enabled a data exchange keep our far-off purple form and the open up the rail exchange that my clients use but you know we've opened up our data exchange part of our software platform and we have open source for this particular case a give get model but the more you give to it the more you get out of there and our first installations this was the first week that we have users of the platform you know the state of Nevada is using it there are no our state in North Carolina is using it already and we're trying to see the first asks for the gift get model to be used but that's the three ways you're trying to address the that's great and and and and so important you know in this again when this whole thing started I couldn't help but think of the Ford plant making airplanes and and Keiser making Liberty ships in in World War two but you know now this is a different battle but we have different tools and to your point luckily we have a lot of the things in place right and we have mobile phones and you know we can do zoom and well you know we can we can talk as we're talking now so I want to shift gears a little bit and just talk about digital transformation right we've been talking about this for ad nauseam and then and then suddenly right there's this light switch moment for people got to go home and work and people got to communicate via via online tools and you know kind of this talk and this slow movement of getting people to work from home kind of a little bit and digital transformation a little bit and data-driven decision making a little bit but now it's a light switch moment and you guys are involved in some really critical industries like healthcare like financial services when you kind of look at this not from a you know kind of business opportunity peer but really more of an opportunity for people to get over the hump and stop you can't push back anymore you have to jump in what are you kind of seeing in the marketplace Howard you know some of your customers dealing with this good bad and ugly there are two towers to start my response to you with using two of my favorite sayings that you know come to mind as we started the pandemic one is you know someone very smart said and I don't know who's been attributed to but a crisis is a terrible thing to waste so I do believe this move to restoring the world back to a natural state where there's not much fossil fuels being burnt and humans are not careful about their footprint but even if it's forced is letting us enjoy the earth in its glory which is interesting and I hope you don't waste an opportunity number one number two Warren Buffett came out and said that it's only when the tide goes out you realize who's swimming naked and this is a culmination of both those phenomenal phrases you know which is one this is the moment I do believe this is something that is deep both in the ability for us to realize the virtuosity of humanity as a society as social species as well as a reality check on what a business model looks like visa vie a presentation that you can put some fancy words on even what has been an 11-year boom cycle and blitzscale your way to disaster you know I have said publicly that this the peak of the cycle was when mr. Hoffman mr. Reid Hoffman wrote the book bit scaling so we should give him a lot of credit for calling the peak in the cycle so what we are seeing is a kind of coming together of those two of those two big trends crises is going to force industry as you've heard me say many for many years now do not just modernize what we have seen happen chef in the last few years or decades is modernization not transformation and they are different is the big difference as you know transformation is taking a business model pulling it apart understanding the economics that drive it and then not even reassembling it recreating how you can either recapture that value or recreate that value completely differently or by the way blow up the value create even more value that hasn't happened yet digital transformation you know data and analytics AI cloud have been modernizing trends for the last ten years not transformative trends in fact I've also gone and said publicly that today the very definition of technology transformation is run a sequel engine in the cloud and you get a big check off as a technology organization saying I'm good I've transformed how I look at data analytics I'm doing what I was doing on Prem in the cloud there's still sequel in the cloud you know there's a big a very successful company it has made a businessman out of it you don't need to talk about the company today but I think this becomes that moment where those business models truly truly get a chance to transform number one number two I think there's going to be less on the industry side on the new company side I think the the error of anointing winners by saying grow at all cost economics don't matter is fundamentally over I believe that the peak of that was the book let's called blitzscaling you know the markets always follow the peaks you know little later but you and I in our lifetimes will see the return to fundamentals fundamentals as you know never go out of fashion Jeff whether it's good conversations whether it's human values or its economic models if you do not have a par to being a profitable contributing member of society whether that is running a good balance sheet individually and not driven by debt or running a good balance sheet as a company you know we call it financial jurisprudence financial jurisprudence never goes out of fashion and the fact that even men we became the mythical animal which is not the point that we became a unicorn we were a profitable company three years ago and two years ago and four years ago and today and will end this year as a profitable company I think it's a very very nice moment for the world to realize that within the realm of digital transformation even the new companies that can leverage and push that trend forward can build profitable business models from it and if you don't it doesn't matter if you have a billion users as my economic professor told me selling a watermelon that you buy for a dollar or fifty cents even if you sell that a billion times you cannot make it up in volume I think those are two things that will fundamentally change the trend from modernization the transformation it is coming and this will be the moment when we look back and when you write a book about it that people say you know what now Jeff called it and now and the cry and the pandemic is what drove the economic jurisprudence as much as the social jurisprudence obvious on so many things here we can we're gonna be we're gonna go Joe Rogan we're gonna be here for four hours so hopefully hopefully you're in a comfortable chair but uh-huh but I don't I don't sit anymore I love standing on a DD the stand-up desk but I do the start of my version of your watermelon story was you know I dad a couple of you know kind of high-growth spend a lot of money raised a lot of money startups back in the day and I just know finally we were working so hard I'm Michael why don't we just go up to the street and sell dollars for 90 cents with a card table and a comfy chair maybe some iced tea and we'll drive revenue like there's nobody's business and lose less money than we're losing now not have to work so hard I mean it's so interesting I think you said everyone's kind of Punt you know kind of this pump the brakes moment as well growth at the ethic at the cost of everything else right there used to be a great concept called triple-line accounting right which is not just shareholder value to this to the sacrifice of everything else but also your customers and your employees and-and-and your community and being a good steward and a good participant in what's going on and I think that a lot of that got lost another you know to your point about pumping the brakes and the in the environment I mean we've been kind of entertaining on the oil side watching an unprecedented supply shock followed literally within days by an unprecedented demand shock but but the fact now that when everyone's not driving to work at 9:00 in the morning we actually have a lot more infrastructure than we thought and and you know kind of goes back to the old mob capacity planning issue but why are all these technology workers driving to work every morning at nine o'clock it means one thing if you're a service provider or you got to go work at a restaurant or you're you're carrying a truck full of tools but for people that just go sit on a laptop all day makes absolutely no sense and and I'd love your point that people are now you know seeing things a little bit slowed down you know that you can hear birds chirp you're not just stuck in traffic and into your point on the digital transformation right I mean there's been revolution and evolution and revolution people get killed and you know the fact that digital is not the same as physical but it's different had Ben Nelson on talking about the changes in education he had a great quote I've been using it for weeks now right that a car is not a is not a mechanical horse right it's really an opportunity to rethink the you know rethink the objective and design a new solution so it is a really historical moment I think it is it's real interesting that we're all going through it together as well right it's not like there quake in 89 or I was in Mount st. Helens and that blew up in in 1980 where you had kind of a population that was involved in the event now it's a global thing where were you in March 20 20 and we've all gone through this indeed together so hopefully it is a little bit of a more of a unifying factor in kind of the final thought since we're referencing great books and authors and quotes right as you've all know Harare and sapiens talked about what is culture right cultures is basically it's it's a narrative that we all have bought into it I find it so ironic that in the year 2020 that we always joke is 20/20 hindsight we quickly found out that everything we thought was suddenly wasn't and the fact that the global narrative changed literally within days you know really a lot of spearhead is right here in Santa Clara County with with dr. Sarah Cody shutting down groups of more than 150 people which is about four days before they went to the full shutdown it is a really interesting time but as you said you know if you're fortunate enough as we are to you know have a few bucks in the bank and have a business that can be digital which you can if you're in the sports business or the travel business the hotel business and restaurant business a lot of a lot of a lot of not not good stuff happening there but for those of us that can it is an opportunity to do this nice you know kind of a reset and use the powers that we've developed for recommendation engines for really a much more power but good for good and you're doing a lot more stuff too right with banking and in in healthcare telemedicine is one of my favorite things right we've been talking about telemedicine and electronic medicine for now well guess what now you have to cuz the hospitals are over are overflowing Jeff to your point three stories and you know then at some point I know you have you I will let you go you can let me go I can talk to you for four hours I can talk to you for but days my friend you know the three stories that there have been very relevant to me through this crisis I know one is first I think I guess in a way all are personal but the first one you know that I always like to remind people on there were business models built around allowing people to complain online and then using that as almost like a a stick to find a way to commercialize it and I look at that all of our friends I'm sure you have friends have lots of friend the restaurant is big and how much they are struggling right they are honest working the hardest thing to do in life as I've been told and I've witnessed through my friends is to run a restaurant the hours the effort you put into it making sure that what you produce this is not just edible but it's good quality is enjoyed by people is sanitary is the hard thing to do and there was yet there were all of these people you know who would not find in their heart and their minds for two seconds to go post a review if something wasn't right and be brutal in those reviews and if they were the same people were to look back now and think about how they assort the same souls then anything to be supportive for our restaurant workers you know it's easy to go and slam them online but this is our chance to let a part of the industry that we all depend on food right critical to humanity's success what have we done to support them as easy as it was for us to complain about them what have we done to support them and I truly hope and I believe they're coming out of it those business models don't work anymore and before we are ready to go on and online on our phones and complain about well it took time for the bread to come to my table we think twice how hard are they working right number one that's my first story I really hope you do tell me about that my second story is to your have you chained to baby with Mark my kids I'm sure as your kids get up every morning get dressed and launch you know their online version of a classroom do you think when they enter the workforce or when they go to college you and me are going to try and convince them to get in a oil burning combustion engine but by the way can't have current crash and breakdown and impact your health impact the environment and show up to work and they'll say what do you talk about are you talking about I can be effective I can learn virtually why can't I contribute virtually so I think there'll be a generation of the next class of you know contribute to society who are now raised to live in an environment where the choice of making sure we preserve the planet and yet contribute towards the growth of it is no longer a binary choice both can be done so I completely agree with you we have fundamentally changed how our kids when they grew up will go to work and contribute right my third story is the thing you said about how many industries are suffering we have clients you know in the we have health care customers we have banking customers you know we have whoever paying the bills like we are are doing everything they can to do right by society and then we have customers in the industry of travel hospitality and one of my most humbling moments Jeff there's one of the no sea level executives sent us an email early in this in this crisis and said this is a moment where a strong David can help AV Goliath and just reading that email had me very emotional because they're not very many moments that we get as corporations as businesses where we can be there for our customers when they ask us to be their father and if we as companies and help our customers our clients who area today are flying people are feeding people are taking care of their health and they're well if V in this moment and be there for them we we don't forget those moments you know those as humans have long-term memories right that was one of the kindest gentlest reminders to me that what was more important to me my co-founder Richard you know my leadership team every single person at Reseda that have tried very hard to build automations because as an automation company to automate complex human process so we can make humans do higher order activities in the moment when our customers asked us to contribute and be there for them I said yes they said yes you said yes and I hope I hope people don't forget that that unicorns aren't important there are mythical animals there's nothing all about profits there's nothing mythical about fortress balance sheet and there's nothing mythical about a strong business model that is built for sustainable growth not good at all cost and those are my three stories that you know bring me a lot of lot of calm in this tremendous moment of strife and and in the piece that wraps up all those is ultimately it's about relationships right people don't do business I mean companies don't do business with companies people do business with people and it's those relationships and and in strong relationships through the bad times which really set us up for when things start to come back I me as always it's I'm not gonna let it be three years to the next time I hear me pounding on your door great to catch up you know love to love to watch really your your culture building and your community engagement good luck I mean great success on the company but really that's one thing I think you really do a phenomenal job of just keeping this positive drumbeat you always have you always will and really appreciate you taking some time on a Friday to sit down with us well first of all thank you I wish I could tell you I just up to you but we celebrate formal Fridays that to Seder and that's what this is all so I want to end on a good on a positive bit of news I was gonna give you a demo of it but if you want to go to our website and look at what everything we're doing we have a survival kit around a data survival kit around kovat how am I using buzzwords you know a is let's not use that buzzword right now but in your in your lovely state but on my favorite places on the planet when we ran the algorithm on who is ready as per the government definition of opening up we have five counties that are ready to be open you know between Santa Clara to LA Sacramento Kern and San Francisco the metrics today the data today with our algorithm there are meta algorithm is saying that those five counties those five regions look like I've done a lot of positive activities if the country was to open under all the right circumstances those five look you know the first as we were men at on cream happy Earth Day a pleasure to see you so good to know your family is doing well and I hope we see we talk to each other soon thanks AVI great conversation with avi Mehta terrific guy thanks for watching everybody stay safe have a good weekend Jeff Rick checking out from the cube [Music]

>>live from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering AWS executive. Something >>brought to you by Accenture. >>Welcome back, everyone. We are kicking off day two of the cubes. Live coverage of the ex center Executive Summit here at AWS. Reinvent, I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. We have three guests for this panel. We have some bad meta. He is the chief information officer at Putnam based in Boston. Where? Boston People together. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Nitin Gupta. He's the partner and solutions lead. Financial service is at AWS Welcomed and Shale Jane back again for more. Who leads the data business group in North America. Thanks >>so much the last time. >>Yes. We can't get enough of each other. So thank you so much for coming on the show. We're talking about the data data journey and financial service is so I'm gonna start with you, Sam. It tell us. Tell our viewers a little bit about Putnam. That your assets under management. Your employees? >>Sure. So you know, problem is a global firm. We are a leader in mutual funds in the mutual fund business. We're in 84 year old organization. We based in Boston on, and we are known for innovation. We've done a lot of firsts in our industry on our focus has always bean looking after the needs of our shareholders. So even as we launch digital transformation, we launch it with the lens off, making sure we're covering the needs of our shareholders. >>So what was the impetus? What was the driving force to it? To embark on this cloud journey? >>Sure, So you look recovered. The financial markets recover industries. We look at our own industry as well. Things are changing rather rapidly, right, if I may just turn it around a little bit. Last year's letter from our CEO Bob Reynolds, said That problem now has Maur increasingly Maur four and five star funds, according to Morningstar, then we've had it as a percent of total funds ever. Before we had inflows, when the rest of the industry were having outflows, we built a digital platform and we said digital technology at problem is how we gonna view the internal technology department who will help enable our company to go and provide the investment insights directly to our advisors and to our shareholders so that they can benefit from the performance that we're we're delivering, right? We can only do that through a change. What's really going on in our industry is that there's more choice that's now available to shareholders than ever before. So while we talk about where there's outflows in in in our world, there's actually a lot of flow happening, right, So So it's for us to figure out how. How are the tastes changing right? What are people buying would do advisors need? When do they need them and can reposition ourselves to service them at scale, and so that those are the things that are driving our business? For us to continue to serve the shareholders needs. We really need to be in tune with where the market is. So we're helping do that at Putnam through technology, >>so shale in it. And I mean, what he's just described is thin. This enormously changing landscape and financial service is disrupted by a lot of new entrance. A lot of financial text in tak, a lot of different kinds of technologies. A lot of industries are experiencing this rapid pace of change. How do u ex ensure in AWS work with Putnam amidst this tremendous change, and how do you sit down with the client and sort of work out? Where do we go from here? >>So you know, I want to touch upon a couple of things that made you said And Rebecca You said, So no one is the cloud of their journey. It's It's not a destination that you're trying to get to, And then the other thing that you talked about, it's change. So we had in the cycle right now. But there's a lot of change happening at an industry we had in the cycle Where you nothing, that $38 trillion or something, which is a generator, you know, they're just getting transferred from one generation to the other. I'm not getting any off it. Unfortunately, you know >>all of >>this change that is happening in the industry. What is really required is you need something up in terms of technology, a platform that allows you to move quickly on adapt really quickly to this change. And I think that's where cloud comes in when we talk about all the new generation technologies like data machine learning, artificial intelligence, how >>do you >>leverage all of those. How do you fail quickly? How do you test experiment? Run thousands of not millions of experiments and see what will work in what will not work and do that in a very cost effective way and cloud of a very easy. It's an effective way to do it. And the weight of Louis is helping our customers. Obviously. You know, we we announced a bunch of service is yes, today way have the widest and the deepest tack that is dead in the industry today. You know the strength of our partners. Accenture. So you know, Accenture has Bean one of our longest standing partners altar and financial firm on, you know, working with them, working with our partners to enable our customers. But then we're also investing very heavily in building our industry capabilities. Are accounting solution architects? Professional service is security professionals helping our customers answer all the questions that they would need to answer as they go in this journey with us. So it's, you know, we are in this with them for for the long haul on dhe, you know, super excited about parking trip. >>So from our perspective, I think where we view the world as at a point where we're post digital, where digital was to put a front end that made your engagement with the customers much better. But now we're talking about intelligent enterprise, which is to really digitize the company from the inside out. So not only you need cloud for agility and all the other benefits that cloud offers, but you also need to look at data is the vehicle that would actually not only transform the culture of the company but also be able to integrate with your partners. For example, Cement talked about, you know, getting mind share from the advisers. But if you can exchange data, integrate data much better, faster with them and serve data to them in shapes and speeds that they need, they'll be more amenable to put you on their roster as well. So I think we're seeing a change that's mostly driven by the fintech industry disruption. That's that's happening as well. And it is no better time than now with the cloud and data to really help transform companies like >>the's tons of innovation, right, it's We heard Andy Jassy talk about the Let's roll Sweet the Sweets that are available to us. Our job is to learn what they are and how does it apply to our business because at the end of the game you said it's about our shareholders. It's about the value that we can bring. But we want to harness the power off all of the innovation, and we can't even though we've Bean an innovator, we're not going to innovate alone, all right, so it's really helpful to have to surround yourself with partners who have done this before, to be learning from others and bringing in the right tools at the right time, so so we can turn things around quickly, right? This is way are obviously very conservative and risk averse when it comes to managing other people's money. So we have to be very, very careful. Having said that, you know, we want to learn about all the guardrails we can put in place so we can go faster. >>I want to actually do something about what Shayla brought up, and that is the cultural change within the organization, because change is hard and so many people are resistant, particularly when things are going relatively well and they say Why mess that up with the new technology? So how is hard? Maybe >>is the understatement of the week very hard, and as you guys know, you know where it's not. It's not hard because people don't just want changes. They are experts in things that they've been doing for the last 15 years. 20 years. They've bean at our firm for a really long time. They really know how everything works from front to back. What happens, though? Now, when we get a changing need from the market and people want to buy things differently and we want to sell different products and maybe wanna introduce new products to the market, we can create bottlenecks that slow things down if we're not careful. So this is where we want to learn about the two pizza teams and how you can do things faster. How can we apply that to our world? Which means business partners working with technology, co located in small teams, being completely empowered to deliver solutions, right, working with our risk and compliance people, making sure that everyone's doing things that there were supposed to be doing right? How do we put that to work in the financial service is industry. So where we're learning as we go, we're learning to break down the sidles in the organization, and it's hot all the way around because we're experts in our areas. We know what we've done really well. But fortunately we have a leader in our CEO who's basically said that Let's transform problem so that we become leaders in the digital era for financial service is so with his support waken. Get the executive team align, and as the executive team aligns, then you find that people in the organization they want to work in this model, right but way don't know yet what we don't know, right? It's so we know how to do things from yesterday. Now we're learning and working together. So you guys have come in and this is where we've said, Bring in the people who have done this before and let's hold a session with 40 50 people that Putnam and let's just learn about what that transformation looked like at other places, so we don't make the same mistakes. >>Well, that's what Andy Jassy said in his fireside chat this morning. He was talking about how he had surgery recently in the question you need to ask your surgeon is how many times have you done this surgery? Because that is the critical thing. And so having a trusted partner is so important. So how how does it work that we're working together, collaborating on this relationship? How are you ensuring that Putnam doesn't make mistakes and does do the right tool for the right job shell? >>So, um, earlier this year, we actually launched an offering. A devious lighthouse with eight of us and what it is is a is a collection off. All of our assets are thought, leadership and architectures that we have garnered over the years, having worked with plants like Putnam and have them through the journey. So we put them all together and we bring Bring that Fourth Putnam is one of the first clients actually take advantage of it Abuse Data Lighthouse and, for example, we have a methodology that is specially customized for doing data on on eight of us. So things like that is what we bring to the table to help eliminate the risk that they may encounter. >>And data is critical to us, right? It's we manage a set of data assets, and that's the engine off the organization. So when we look at cloud migration way, look at what's our data strategy? How are rebuilding the so called you guys introduce the terminology for confirmed data sets? And then can we gallon eyes the rest of the organization around it, from investment professionals to operational professionals who used that data every day. Manager governent Make sure that it is what it's supposed to be. And to do that in a cloud environment where their user experience becomes a lot simpler, a lot easier almost takes I t a little away from the day to day. We don't have to be in the report writing business because we can make them more self service right that will create efficiencies in our organization. Our clients are asking us to do things at a lower cost than ever before and introduce more products and more tools and more service is right, so >>I would just tie with Samantha, just said with your question about culture. So if you can make it easy for people, for example, making things self service and data that's discovered through a catalog, so you have a place where you can go and find all the data sets it available. What is the quality? What is the veracity of data and then be able to take a piece of that and try some experiments with it? I think that would enable the cultural change much faster >>because they are able to basically do their jobs better. >>Yes, yes, >>it is. A is a more productive implement. Will highly >>engaged employees, right? We don't want to be in a situation where we find a lot of those disengagement moving employees and the mission for company. We want high engagement. We own people committed to what they're doing. We want to remove hurdles, and technology is they can produce great efficiencies, but it's not done right. It can also be a big hurdle. So we want to learn how to deliver the right tools, the right products to make it easier for way like to say, bring delightful experiences for our clients and our employees. >>Delightful. Another were another Jeff Bezos favorite word of his Obviously Putnam is, is a real innovator and really on the vanguard of this new technology. What are you seeing in the greater financial service is landscape. I mean, how how what are the what is the corporate mind set when it comes to this kind of change? >>So you know, when we look across our financial service is customer base across banking, capital markets, insurance pretty much every customer today. The question is not, you know if we should move to the cloud or when should we move to the cloud? But I think every every CEO and see io is asking the question, How do I move too loud? And what applications do I move over? How do I start on this journey of transformation? Whether it's a digital or it's reducing costs are improving my risk. Posher whatever that end goal is on dhe, you know, when we look at use cases across the industry, risk and data is with one of the easiest use cases to get started with, say, on Ben Field. They were looking at Solvent E to calculations for 25 million other policy holders, and they reduce that time from 10 days to 10 minutes. That is a, you know, really good use case off getting moving to the cloud. You know, if Indra is a great example. They're very public customer analyzing 38 building over market records in the stock market and looking in on alive in all of the data. On it up with data and risk is one of the core use cases that companies start with but then >>has to >>get more as they learn more about the cloud. As they get more get a deeper understanding, they start looking at other things, like Transforming Corp core applications. Today we have core creating applications, scored insurance application score, banking applications that are running running on the cloud. And then they start looking and innovation. You know, how do we look at artificial intelligence? How do we look at machine learning? How do we look at the new technologies to really transform our business and one of the great use case? And we thought so. You know, a lot off insurance companies Liberty Mutual using Lexx as part of their there was a conversational agent for their customers. But one of the interesting examples I have is it's ah, it's a reinsurer in Denmark, Italy insurer in Denmark, and what they're doing is they're using image recognition from from Amazon to look at on accident in the field and then analyzing that, using the using our recognition service to see what that that actual damages and what the cost is and feeding that information to the underwriter really compressing the time that it takes two from a clean filing to processing and payment to a matter of a few few few hours on getting that payment to the to the customer. So really creating a very positive customer experience. >>So it speaking of customer experiences, what have you know? You said you thought you were in service to your shareholders. What have been some of the results that you've seen? >>So you have to look across the organization, right? So our advisers served the need on the retail side, so we were like a bee to be business, right? So we have to be cognizant of what's going on in their world. They're sitting down with clients and talking through the choices, and they have certain needs what they need to fulfill their obligations. They need to explain why they're doing what they're doing. If Putnam knows where each of the advisers are at in their journey with their clients, we can be more helpful to them in explaining why our funds are behaving the way they are right, that information can be had at the right time at the right moment when they need it. Need it, And that brings advisers closer to our our teams are retail distribution teams are marketing teams are investment teams are investment professionals, are using data and analytics to get information to. We're using technology to get information to them faster, so companies are doing releases. There's a ton of information out there these days. We're using technology to dig deeper into the press releases as well as the SEC filings, looking at the footnotes, really trying to understand what they're trying to say, what they said before and what are analysts should be focused on. And we can take a 70 page document, condense it to seven pages and pinpoint what the technology tools say's are really insights. And the analysts will take the time and read the whole thing. But they'll also look at the insides and they'll add it into their process. So technology's additive to the investment process and really making a change help and then that's helping Dr performance. So at the end of the day, we're living good performance on our funds through data analytics technology, you know, give you another example. Some off the were were very strong in the in the mortgage analytics business and on the fixed income side. Our team's very well known. They've been together for many, many years now. They're starting to use data at scale, and we found that being able to go to the cloud to do these analytics right in hours instead of days has really made a material difference in the number of iterations we can run. So now the questions are, when we do risk management, can we do that a little differently and run more reiterations and get more accuracy? So we're seeing all of that benefit. That's direct user experience, that people are seeing people seeing how technology is helping them do a better job with their thesis. >>Excellent. Thank you so much for coming on. The Cube seem ed knitting and shale. A pleasure having you on. >>Thank you for being here. >>I'm Rebecca night. Stay tuned for more of the cubes. Live coverage of the Ex Center Executive Summit coming up in just a little bit

(energetic music) >> From New York City, it's The Cube! Covering Automation Anywhere Imagine, brought to you by Automation Anywhere. >> Hey welcome back, Jeff Rick here with The Cube, we're in midtown Manhattan at Automation Anywhere Imagine 2019, we were here last year for the first time, we're really excited to be back. Since we were here, I think they raised like 550 million dollars, the RPA space is going bananas, and it's a really exciting place to be, both for the company and also for us at Cube, so we're excited to be back, and we got a return visit from last year, she's Neeti Metha, she's the co-founder, we always love to get co-founders, SVP brand strategy and culture, welcome back. >> Good to see you again, Jeff. >> Absolutely. So, first off, congratulations, I mean what a move you guys have made in only one short year. >> Thank you. The space is really taking off, and we are very excited to see the growth. >> So, excited to talk about the technology all day long but you're getting involved in some of the little higher-level discussions which are really really important, we see it in AI, and these are the conversations, I think, are much more important and that's about ethics, and how are these tools being used, what do people need to think about when they're using their tools, we don't just want to qualify bad behavior or bad bias' or bad ways of doing things in the past, that doesn't help so, what are you thinking about, how are you helping customers, what are some of the things they should be thinking about in this space? >> So, two things, one is, I think, society unfortunately has had a lot of unconscious bias in a lot of different ways, you know, it may not be intentional, it may be something that is inherent in the way we behave as a society or a community, or a race, religion, as a gender, it doesn't matter, and somehow, when we do AI and machine learning and we are training these bots, when we feed all this data to them, there are two things that AI helps us with. One is, we get to see it outside-in, so we are looking at it as how the data is looked upon by the machine, and these bias' become a little bit more obvious to us than otherwise, and then two, we can actually take that as a learning point and fix those biases so that we are not always targeting the most populous religion or the most populous race, or the most populous gender at that point, but we are looking at it absolutely gender-neutral, or race-neutral or religion-neutral and so forth, so AI really helps in those two things, one is it allows you to see it and identify it, and two, it allows you to rectify it as you're training these bots to make certain decisions using the analysis and the data that they have at their disposal. >> I'm curious how the outside-in exposes it 'cause for a lot of people, they don't see it, right, that's why the Terma Conch is bias so, is it in the documentation that you maybe never really had to write it down, what are some of the things that suddenly surfaced that, Oh, I didn't really realize we were doing that." >> So two things, one, again, in that sense, the data that we had, there was a lot of data, so having AI and machine learning actually helps us digitize that data and that means that we have a lot more data that can be analyzed, first of all, which was not possible before, and second, we can actually look at that data and cut in and dice it in any way we want to to kind of see these biases a little bit more. When you couldn't have digitized data, then how are you going to have one human brain, for example, look at all the data that was not digitized and analyze it without the digitization, and then actually find analyses around that or find biases around that? So it really does help to digitize that data and, for example, Automation Anywhere's IQ bot helps you digitize dark data or hidden data, and covert it to digitized data and then you can analyze it and do things with that data that you could never before. >> Okay, great. So, one of the things that came up in your great keynote this morning, lot of stuff, I could go on for probably 2 hours, but one of them is really re-thinking this concept of what a bot is, is it digital assistant, or even a digital employee? And thinking of it, not as something that's going to replace what I do per se, but it's just another tool in my toolbox, just like I have a laptop, I have a mobile phone, I have sales force, I have all these other systems, and really thinking of it more that way to offload some of this mundane, soul-crushing work that unfortunately takes up way too much of all of our time. Very different approach than, "This is a substitute for what I do now." >> Technology is always a human enabler, and this is extremely important. So the RPA and the digital workforce is something that we believe that every human who is working could leverage and enable themselves to get to that new level of creativity, that innovation, get rid of the repetitive and mundane and do things that you never could before or you could never get to because of a time perspective. And so, it's extremely important for people to utilize this to actually help themselves, their careers, their own teams, their divisions, their organizations and their societies to get to the next level. >> Right, and open up this productivity gate because, the other thing I think is really funny is, all this conversation about robots taking jobs and yet companies have thousands and thousands of open recs, they can't hire enough people, even with the technology and I'm always drawn to this great invite, we did a Google cloud a couple of years ago, where, when they were starting to scale, they realized they could not do it with people, they just couldn't hire fast enough and had to start incorporating software defined automation, or else they could never take advantage of that. We're seeing that here and that's really part of the whole story and why RPA is so exciting right now, is 'cause you're an enabler for productivity force multiplier. >> That's right and a lot of businesses have certain things that are inherent in their industries, for example, there might be a seasonality requirement, or there might be a requirement where they suddenly have a surge of customers and so forth, and in order to stock that many claims or accounts that they're opening or whatever their process is doing, in order to get that many humans onboard them, train them, at least give them a breathing space to get onboard and actually be responsive to that organization, you can help them by having bots to bridge that gap and allow them to be successful. >> Right. Another interesting stab in here, I got great notes, again it was a terrific keynote, he talked about only 4% of US jobs require a medium level of creativity and I was struck, I remember being in grade school and we watched a movie about people in an auto-manufacturing plant, just the worst kind of monotony they were doing, and this one guy used to load cars on a train and every once in a while he would just drop one on purpose or run the forklift through it just to kind of break up his day. >> Right. >> So, again, the purpose is not to replace, but to really enable people to start to use their brains and be more creative. >> It is to unleash the human potential, and that is what automation will do for it. >> Now, you guys have recently came out with some new research, or if you can give us some of the highlights on some of your new research? >> Absolutely. So, last year, we worked with the Goldsmith's University of London to see if automation, and we believe so, but we wanted to see and validate that automation actually did make work more human. So, did people actually free themselves of their repetitive and mundane and then become more creative and innovative and solve problems that they wanted to and they couldn't before? And the answer was overwhelmingly yes. So this year, we went the next step in that research, and we did a second research, a second wave of research, where we said, "What do organizations, what are the challenges organizations will face if they want to implement this automation and unleash that human potential?" and you should read the research, it's on our website, but it was very very interesting, 72% of people didn't believe that AI or machine learning or automation would be taking over their jobs, yet only 38% of them were exposed or had the opportunity to work with this. So the potential is enormous, technology has to be an organizational change, that's another thing that came out of the research, and corporations should work towards it, but I think this research was very insightful, please do look at it, I think it will be very useful to you. >> So one of the announcements too, that came out today was about the community addition, and I think that's a really interesting play, right, 'cause your introducing a freemium, so people, myself, individuals, educations, businesses, have access to your whole suite for free. I'm sure there was some interesting conversations internally to really make that leap, but it really supports your theme of the democratization of the automation which we hear over and over around data and a lot of pieces of the stack, and so obviously the bigger picture, the bigger opportunity far outweighs a couple of bucks of revenue from this small company or that small company. I wonder if you can kind of share some of the thought behind that? >> Absolutely. This was always part of the strategy, but it was part of the strategy to do it at the right time, when the technology was mature and robust enough one, but when we could actually allow and give that opportunity to every human who wanted to get rid of their repetitive and mundane, give them the opportunity to be better at what they do, to create more and innovate more, and so we are very excited about it, we've had such a great response from the market on it and the idea from the beginning, and I think we are very committed to it, and Automation Anywhere is to create opportunity for automation for everyone. >> That's great. So, last question Neeti, what are you working on in 2019, I mean I don't expect you to raise another half a billion dollars, great year from last time, what are some of your priorities though as we look at the balance of 2019? >> I think this industry is under tremendous growth, I think we are seeing a lot of results, for the customers and for employees, and so we are very very excited, I think it's a great time for the industry, it will create a lot more innovation, we'll have a lot more new things coming out this year, a lot more engagement from all over the world, and it's a super exciting time to be in this industry. >> Great. Well thanks for taking a few minutes out of your busy day and for having us back here at the show. >> Absolutely, my pleasure, Jeff. >> She's Neeti, I'm Jeff, you're watching The Cube, where Automation Anywhere Imagine 2019 in midtown Manhattan. Thanks for watching, see you next time. (energetic music)

>> Live, from San Francisco, it's The Cube! Covering DockerCon '18. Brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back to The Cube. We are live at DockerCon 2018 on a beautiful day in San Francisco. We're glad you're not playing hooky though if you're in the city because it's important to be here watching John Troyer and myself, Lisa Martin, talk to some awesome, inspiring guests. We're excited to welcome two Docker captains, that's right, to The Cube. We've got Nirmal Mehta, you are the chief technologist of Booz Allen. Welcome back to The Cube. And, we've got Bret Fisher, the author of Docker Mastery. Both of you, Docker captains. Can't wait to dig into that. But you're both speakers here at the fifth annual DockerCon. So Bret, let's talk, you just came off the stage basically. So, thank you for carving out some time for us. Talk to us about your session. What did you talk about? What was some of the interaction with the attendees? >> Well the focus is on Docker Swarm and I'm a assist admin at heart so I focus on ops more than developer but I spend my life helping developers get their stuff into production. And so, that talk centers around the challenges of going in and doing real work that's for a business with containers and how do you get what seems like an incredible amount of new stuff into production all at the same time on a container ecosystem. So, kind of helping them build the tools they need, and what we call a stack, a stack of tools, that ultimately create a full production solution. >> What were some of the commentary you heard from attendees in terms of... Were these mostly community members, were there users of container technology, what was sort of the dynamic like? >> Well you have, there's all sorts of dynamics, right? I mean you have startups, I think I took a survey in the room because it was packed and like 20% of the people in the room about were a solo DevOps admin. So they were the only person responsible for their infrastructure and their needs are way different than a team that has 20 or 30 people all serving that responsibility. So, the talk was a little bit about how do they handle their job and do this stuff. You know, all this latest technology without being overwhelmed and, then, how does it grow in complexity to a larger team and how do they sustain that. So, yeah. >> Bret, it's nice that the technology is mature enough now that people are in production, but what are some of the barriers that people hit when they try to go into production the first time? >> Yeah, great question. I think the biggest barrier is trying to do too much new at the same time. And, I don't know why we keep relearning this lesson in IT, right? We've had that problem for decades of projects being over cost, over budget, over timed, and I think with so much exciting new stuff in containers it's susceptible to that level of, we need all these new things, but you actually don't, right? You can actually get by with very small amounts of change, incrementally. So, we try to teach that pattern of growing over time, and, yeah. >> You mentioned like the one person team versus the multi-person team kind of DevOps organization. Does that same problem of boiling the ocean, do you see that in both groups? >> Yeah, I mean you have fundamentally the same needs, the same problem that you have to solve, but different levels of complexity is really all it has to do with and different levels of budget, obviously, right? So, usually the solo admin doesn't have the million dollar budget for all the tools and bells and whistles, so they might have to do more on their own, but, then, they also have less time so it's a tough row to hoe, you know, to deal with, because you've got those two different fundamental problems of time and money and people are using the most expensive thing. So, no matter what the tool is you're trying to buy, it's usually your time that's the most valuable thing. So how do we get more of our time back? And that's really what containers were all about originally was just getting more of our time back out of it and so we can put back into the business instead of focusing on the tech itself. >> Nirmal, your talk tomorrow is on empathy. >> Yes. >> Very provocative, dig into that for us. >> Sure, so it was actually inspired by a conversation I had with John a couple years ago on Geek Whisperers podcast and he asked the folks on that show, yourself included, asked if there was an event in my past that I kind of regret or taught me a lot. And it was about basically neglecting someone on my team and just kind of shoving them away. And, that moment was a big change in how I felt about the IT industry. And, what I had done was pushed someone who probably needed that help and built up a lot of courage to talk to me and I kind of just dismissed him too quickly. And, from there, I was thinking more and more about game theory and behavioral economics and seeing a lot of our clients and organizations struggle to go through a digital transformation, a DevOps transformation, a cultural transformation. So, to me, culture is kind of the core of what's happening in the industry. And so, the idea of my talk is a little bit of behavioral economics, a little bit of game theory, to kind of set the stage for where your IT organization is probably kind of is right now and how to use empathy to get your organization to that DevOps and to a more efficient place and resolve those conflicts that happen inherently. And, somehow tie that all together with Docker. So, that's kind of what my talk is all about. >> Nice, I mean what's interesting to me, Lisa, is that we do Cubes and there are many Cubes actually all across the country during conference season, right? And we talk to CEOs and VPs of very large companies and even today, at DockerCon, the word 'culture' and the talking about culture and process and people has come up every single interview. So, it's not just from the techies up that this conversation is going... this DevOps and empathy conversation is going on, it seems to be from the top down as well. Everyone seems to recognize that, if you really are going to get this productivity gain, it's not just about the tech, you gotta have culture. >> Absolutely, a successful transformation of an organization is both grassroots and top down. Can't have it without either. And, I think we inherently want to have a... Like, we want to take a pill to solve that problem and there's lots of pills: Docker or cloud or CICD or something. But, those tools are the foundational safety net for a cultural transformation, that's all that it is. So, if you're implementing Docker or Jenkins or some CICD pipeline or automation, that's a safety blanket for providing trust in an organization to allow that change in the culture to happen. But, you still need that cultural change. Just adopting Docker isn't going to make you automatically a more effective organization. Sorry, but it's just one piece and it's an important piece but you have to have that top down understanding of where you are now as an organization and where you want to be in the future. And understanding that this kind of legacy, siloed team mindset is no longer how you can achieve that. >> You talked about trust earlier from a thematic perspective as something that comes up. You know we were at SAP Sapphire last week and trust came up a lot as really paramount. And that was in the context of a vendor/customer relationship. But, to your point, it's imperative that it's actually coming from within organizations. We talk a lot about, well stuff today: multi-cloud--multi-cloud, silos-- but, there's also silos with people and without that cultural shift and probably that empathy, how successful, how big of an impact can a technology make? Are you talking with folks that are at the executive level as well as the developer level in terms of how they each have a stake and need to contribute to this empathy? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, the talk I'm doing is basically the ammunition a lower level person would need to go up to management and say, hey, you know this is where the organization is, this is what the IT department kind of looks like, these are the conflicts, and we have to change in order to succeed. And a lot of folks don't. They see the technology changes that they need. You know, adopting the new javascript framework or the new UX pattern. But, they might not have the ammunition to understand the business strategy, the organizational issues. But, they still need that evidence to actually convince a CTO or a CEO or a COO for the need to change. So, I've talked to both groups. From the C-level side, I think it comes from the inherent speed of the industry, the competitive landscape, those are all the pressures that they see and the disruptions that they are tackling. Maybe it's incumbent disruption or new startups that they may have to compete with in the future. The need for constant innovation is kind of the driver. And, IT is kind of where all that is, these days. >> That's great. Building on the concept of trust and this morning at the keynote, Matt Mckesson where they talked about trusting Docker, trusting Docker the company, trusting Docker the technology. Almost the very first words out of Steve Singh's mouth this morning were about community. And, I think community is one of the big reasons people do trust Docker and one of the things that brings them along. You guys are both Docker captains, part of a program of advocacy, community programs. I don't know, Bret, can you tell us a little bit about the program and what's involved in it? >> Yeah, sure. So, it's been around over two years now and it actually spawned out of Docker's pre-existing programs were focusing on speakers and bloggers and supporting them as well as community leaders that run meetups. And they kind of figured out that a key set of people were kind of doing two or three of those things all at once. And so, they were sort of deciding how do we make like super-groups of these people and they came up with the term Docker captain It really just means you know something about Docker, you share it constantly, something about a Docker toolset, something about the container tools. And that you're sort of... And you don't work for Docker. You're a community person that is, maybe you're working for someone that is a partner of Docker or maybe you're just a meetup volunteer that also blogs a lot about patterns and practices of Docker or new Docker features. And so, they kind of use the engineering teams at Docker to kind of pick through people on the internet and the people they see in the community that are sort of rising out of all the noise out there. And they ask them to be a part of the program and then, of course, we get nice jackets and lots of training. And, it's really just a great group of people, we're about 70 people now around the world. >> And yeah, this is global as well, right? >> Oh yeah, yep. It's one of my favorite aspects is the international aspect. I work for Booz Allen which is a more US government focused and I don't get to interact with the global community much. But, through the Docker captain program got friendships and connections almost on every continent and a lot of locations. I just saw a post of a Docker meetup in like, I think it was like Tunisia. Very, very out there kind of places. There was a Cuban one, recently, in Havana. The best connections to a global community that I've ever seen. I think one of the biggest drivers is the rapid adoption and kind of industry trend of containerization and the Docker brand and what it is basically gave rise to a ton of folks just beginners, just wanting to know what it's all about. And, we've been identified as folks that are approachable and have kind of a mandate to be people that can help answer those initial questions, help align folks that have questions with the right resources, and also just make it like a soft, warm, fuzzy kind of introduction to the community. And engage on all kinds of levels, advanced to beginner levels. >> It was interesting, again, this morning, I think about half the people raised their hands to the question, "is it their first year?" So, it still seems like the Docker, the inbound people interested in Docker is still growing and millions of developers all over the world, right? I don't know, Bret, you have a course, Docker Mastery, you also do meetups, and so I'm curious like what is the common pathway or drivers for new folks coming in, that you see and talk with? >> Yeah, what's the pathways? >> Yeah, the pathway, what's driving them? What are they trying to do? Again, are they these solo folks? >> Yeah, it's sort of a little bit of everything. We're very lucky in the course. We actually just crossed 55,000 students worldwide, 161 countries on a course that is only a year old. So, it kind of speaks to the volume of people around the world that really want to learn containers and all the tools around them. I think that the common theme there is I think we had the early adopters, right, and that was the first three or four years of Docker was people that were Silicon Valley, startups, people who were already on the bleeding edge of technology, whether it was hobbyist or enterprise. It was all people, but it was sort of the Linux people. Now, what we're getting is the true enterprise admins and developers, right. And that means, Microsoft, IBM mainframes, .Net, Java, you're getting all of these sort of traditional enterprise technologies but they all have the same passion, they're just coming in a few years later. So, what's funny is, you're meetups don't really change. They're just growing. Like what you see worldwide, the trend is we're still on the up-climb of all the groups, we have over 200 meetups worldwide now that meet once a month about Docker. It's just a crazy time right now. Everything's growing and it's like you wonder if it's ever going to stop, right How big are we gonna get, gonna take over the world with containers? >> Yeah, about 60% or more of all our meetups are completely new to Docker. And, it ranges from, you know, my boss told me about it so I gotta learn it or I found it and I want to convince other people in my organization to use it so I need to learn it more so I can make that case or, it's immediately solving a problem but I don't know how to take it to the next level, don't know where it's going, all that. It's a lot of new people. >> I get students a lot, college students that want to be more aggressive when they get in the marketplace and they hear the word 'DevOps' a lot and they think DevOps is a thing I need to learn in order to get a job. They don't really know what that is. And, of course, we don't even. At this point, it's so watered down, I don't know if anyone really knows what it is. But eventually, they search that and they come up with sort of key terms and I think one of those the come up right away is Docker. And they don't know what that is. But, I get asked the question a lot, If I go to this workshop or if I go the meetup or whatever, can I put that on my resume so I can get my first job out of school? They're always looking for something else beyond their schooling to make them a better first resume. So, it's cool to see even the people just stepping into the job market getting their feet wet with Docker even when they don't even know why they need it. >> It sounds like a symbiotic thought leadership community that you guys are part of and it sounds like the momentum we heard this morning in the general session is really carried out through the Docker captains and the communities. So, Nirmal, Bret, thanks so much for stopping by bringing your snazzy sweatshirts and sharing what you guys are doing as Docker captains. We appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We want to thank you for watching The Cube. I'm Lisa Martin with John Troyer. We're live at DockerCon 2018. Stick around, John and I will be right back with our next guest.

>> From Times Square, in the heart of New York City, it's theCUBE, covering Imagine 2018. (upbeat electronic music) Brought to you by Automation Anywhere. >> Hey, welcome back, everybody, Jeff Frick here, with theCUBE, we're in downtown Manhattan at Automation Anywhere Inspire 2018, about 1,100 people talking about bots and RPA, that's robotic process automation, for those who aren't in the know. And we're excited to have another co-founder join us. She's Neeti Mehta, she's a SVP and co-founder, welcome. >> Nice to meet you Jeff. >> So you're tackling some of the softer, more complex issues that come up around machines and bots and people and working together, and people's jobs getting takeaway, so as leaders try to put in more automation, start thinking about adopting things like Automation Anywhere and bots, what are some of the big ethical things they need to think through? What are some of the bigger issues that maybe aren't top of mind, that are really worth a little deeper thought? >> So one of the things we like to bring to focus is, that corporate leadership and corporations must look at it with a human focus. Robotic process automation helps get rid of the mundane and repetitive tasks, but the ultimate goal is so that you can enable the humans to do more. To enable a lot more creativity, or outside the box thinking or come up with new service models. Come up with new ways to solve things. And this is only possible if you get rid of the repetitive, mundane tasks, which often bogs down humans. >> Right. >> And so, coming at it from asking leadership to look at it right from the forefront. How can we enable the humans to do more, how can we enable our human workforce to use this technology, to unleash that potential? >> Right, and how receptive is the workforce to that message, or are they just afraid that these bots are coming in to take their jobs on some of these more repetitive tasks or, you know, is the rollout and communication and some of your guys' customers, you've been at this for a while, you know is that part of the rollout? Is that part of the implementation to say, hey, you know, the goal here is to help these things with the stuff you don't like to do so much in your job. >> Right, right. >> So that you can have a higher level of productivity, a higher level of contribution. >> Right >> A higher level of everyday activity and tasks. >> Absolutely, I think change is always hard, and it takes a while to progress through it. Re-skilling is a part of some of this change that we are going through, especially with people working with bots or bots taking over some of the more repetitive, or mundane tasks, in a way. But having the leadership walk that change management, walk that transition with the human workforce, is part of our endeavor and we enable our corporations that work with us, and our partners, to make sure that they are able to do that and bring that focus to the human workforce. The more we talk about it, the more we put corporate focus on re-skilling and talking to our human workforce about what the ultimate vision is, and how we are going to get there, is very, very important. >> Right, now you're a co-founder, you've been at this for a while, and yet your blogs talk about audacious bots. Audacious is a really interesting choice of words, and one that you very specifically pick. What is so audacious about bots, and is that both a good thing and a bad thing? >> I think so, the audacity of bots, as I like to put it, is because bots promise to self-learn, or perform certain things like a human does, or perform cognitive functions. To some extent think through certain problems or questions that arise, and think is such a human skillset, and we're asking a bot to do the same thing as that, is very, very difficult. >> Right. >> For a human to comprehend. And that's why I call these bots audacious, because they promise to do all these things. But if we keep the thought process, that why are we enabling this technology, why are we focusing or encouraging this technology to be adopted? Is so that humans can unleash that potential, humans can get to that next level. >> Right. >> And so, it's important to do so. >> Right, Mihir touched on an interesting thing in a keynote, about now people are creating bots that are creating bots. >> Yes. >> So you know, I mean, we hear about that all the time, right? We've heard about the machines talking to one another in a language that nobody, that nobody understands what they're talking about. So have you seen the increases in compute, the increases in networking, the increases in storage, the prices of those things going down? How has that changed the evolution of the bots that you guys are creating, and how do you see that change in the evolution of the development of these tools going forward? >> Bots creating bots is an interesting concept, but remember that the context of the bot creating the bot is still up to the human. What we allow the bot to do, or what he is able to get more productivity out of, is important. And so, if we get those barriers right, or if we get those positions right for the bots to work in and then it is a pure corporate enhancement. It's an enhancement of everything the corporation brings to the table. >> Right, right. I'm just curious, like, so you guys been at this for a long time. When people start to really get into their journey with this technology and really you're starting to implement it and see things, what does happen to the human workforce? Do they get redeployed? Are they just doing different types of activities, generally within the same category of work? How have you actually seen it evolve in the real world? >> So yes to all those questions in a way. Some people will get redeployed, but what we are seeing right now is most people are able to take what they have and get rid of some of the things that they didn't really want to do anyways, which was very time-consuming. >> Right. >> And often, not a big value add to their own job sets that they're bringing to the workspace. So having that availability for the human to say, yes, I want to get rid of this 25% of my work that is very, very repetitive and have a bot do it so that I can actually go and do the five things I've always wanted to do. >> Right. >> But I never got to it. >> Right. >> And that's what we see on the work floor. We've also seen amongst all our implementations that humans who are embracing this bot enablement, as I like to call it, don't want to go back to the other way of doing it. It has improved their work life. It has improved what they bring to the table. It has improved how they deal with their coworkers or their jobs or what they are responsible for and they really don't wanna go back. That's what we're seeing on the floor. >> Right. >> And that's great. That means we're on the right track. We are enabling them with technology that will make a difference to that human. >> Right. >> And that is what this is all about. >> Right, I don't think, too, there's enough talk about, humans aren't really good at repetitive tasks. Those are where we make the most errors. Unfortunately people don't use the copy paste function enough. >> Yes. >> And I think we're aware it kind of manifests itself in just a consumer front-end application is addresses. >> Yes. >> And address verification when you buy something online and you get that thing that says, you know, here's the address that you typed in. >> Right. >> You know, here's the address that we have in our system. This is just a very clean, simple-- >> Crosscheck verification. >> Example of a crosscheck verification because we're not good as a species. >> Exactly. >> At repetitive, mundane tasks. >> It is, that's not our core strength and I haven't met a human who hasn't failed to impress me in some form or fashion. If we can unleash that potential on every human we are capable of such greatness. >> Right. >> We are not bound to transfer data from one system to another or do the same thing in rote without even considering or bringing in any enhancement to that data or that process. >> Right. >> And that's what we want to enable humans to do, to get to that next level. >> Right. >> Of what they're capable of. >> So Neeti, I want to give the last word. You've been at this from the beginning, 14 years, there's 1,100 plus people here in New York this week for this event, just your impressions of how does it feel to grow. I'm sure you're in a proud momma moment to see your company grow into what it's become. So as you look back and you reflect and you take in what's happening all around us here, just love to get your general impressions. >> It's been extremely exciting, I think, for multiple reasons. One is that we get to work with absolutely fantastic human beings, I think, who have brought a lot of greatness to Automation Anywhere and it's been an exciting journey from a career standpoint. From an industry and from a societal standpoint I think we're also at a cusp. We've changed a lot of the world of business and how it works and that is extremely satisfying to see. If we can leave something behind from the future of work prospects for our children, it is something that I am very happy about. >> Good, well, I gotta get some of this automation in my day to day life, let me tell you that. (laughs) All right Neeti, well thanks for taking a few minutes of your day and sitting down with us. >> Thanks Jeff, it was absolutely a pleasure. >> All right, she's Neeti, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE from Automation Anywhere Imagine in New York City, thanks for watching. (upbeat electronic music)

>> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at PagerDuty Summit in Downtown San Francisco. Actually, out on the wharf. It's called Pier 27, never been here before. Pretty cool venue between Pier 39 and the Bay Bridge. We're excited to have a very seasoned Silicon Valley veteran, Nick Mehta. He's the CEO of Gainsight, but look at his LinkedIn profile. He's been on startups, he's been at venture capital companies and now we hear you might may be growing a little unicorn thingy out of your head after that last round. (Nick laughs) >> I don't know about unicorn-- >> Nick, great to see you. >> But a gray hair, for sure. Seasoned, I think just means gray hair, so. >> Absolutely. >> That's growing in my head for sure. >> For people who aren't familiar with Gainsight, give them the basic overview. >> Sure, Jeff. At Gainsight, we really believe that almost every business model is shifting to ones where customers have more power. Therefore, you can't afford to just sell a customer and move on, and for a long time, businesses, the vendors had all the power. You sell a software product or hardware, you sell a device, and once the customer has it, it's up to them whether they get value. Gainsight, we're trying to help enable a shift to this concept we call customer success, where companies have to own whether or not their customers are getting value, whether they're getting the outcomes they want, whether they're using the stuff they buy, and we build a software product, a SAS application, that helps companies make sure everyone in your company is orienting your customers towards getting more value, and in the process, get them to stay with you longer, spend more money with you, and become bigger fans of your company. >> Right, I imagine a lot of people might confuse it with CRN. >> Right. >> Customer relation management and there's a big 60 storey building going up. >> I've seen the building, and we love those guys. Think of us as an adjacent product to what you might do with a Salesforce automation product like salesforce.com. We actually integrate very tightly with Salesforce, as an example, they're an investor in Gainsight. As you're managing sales with your Salesforce, you're managing your support team, you're managing other systems. How do you manage your customers and make sure they're getting value, make sure they're going to stay with you and grow over time? That's what Gainsight does. >> It's really interesting, 'cause people have been talking about the 360 degree view of the customer forever, but that's the challenge you guys went directly after with your application. >> Yeah, it's funny. That's right. I think, for a long time, people were trying to solve 360 view of the customer, but what they were really solving was 360 view of the deal, 'cause it was all about the sale, and the sale is important, it's still very important, right? It was about marketing leads and who I'm selling to and who has power and those are all really important things but now if you think about a world where the customer has power, you've got to look at 360 view of the customer. Are they getting the outcomes they're looking for? Are they adopting and using what they bought? Are they having a good experience? It's a totally different pivot on the world. It's about the customer, not the deal. >> It's interesting too to parallel that with just SAS and Cloud, because when you have a SAS relationship with a client and an ongoing subscription revenue model, you have to keep delivering value, you have to make sure they're going to pay you next month and the month after and the month after. It's not just a sell it and walk away. >> That's exactly right, Jeff. As you know, first of all, it's way cheaper to keep and grow an existing customer than to go get a new one, and because of that, the SAS business model depends on actual high retention rates. People talk about gross retention rate, basically, "Are you keeping the customers you've got?" And then also your net retention rate, are they spending more money with you over time? And the most successful SAS companies, the highest valued ones, are keeping their customers and getting them to spend more money, so that's one of the most important value drivers in SAS. >> I'm curious, when you guys deploy into a new company, a new customer, what are some of the early a-has that you just see over and over and over again that they just miss before they had this view? >> Totally, so number one is almost every company feels today like they're reactive. They find out about things but very late. A customer leaving them, somebody unhappy, a missed sales opportunity, so number one is just getting your organization to be more proactive. Number two, how do you get everyone in the company aligned around the customer? You might have somebody that cares about that one customer, but that customer is talking to support, they're working with your services team, they're going through training. How do you get everyone aligned around the customer and really have a good view across your whole organization so they're all marching for that? Number three, the third a-ha, is how do you scale that? You might have 100 customers, you might have 1,000, you might have a million. How do you scale the right approach with the right customer, whether it's a human outreach or whether it's a fully digital experience, which we can do both, of course. >> What about, there's customers that are in your sales book as a company, but then there's individuals, right, that you're interacting with. >> That's right. >> And in a big company to (mumbling) a relationship, it's not just two companies. It's thousands, or hundreds of thousands of people that are interacting at a bunch of different levels. >> I'm so glad you said that. >> How do you integrate that in? >> Yeah, totally, it's funny, because if you have a big customer and somebody says, "Is your big customer happy or not?" There's no one answer to that question. There might be one part that loves you, another part that doesn't like you, one part that's rolling out, one part that's using some new stuff, one part that's not using anything, and so you have to be able to break up that company in a lot of little pieces, we call those relationships, and then measure each of those differently and be able to drive each of those forward. So, you're totally right. It's not about one company, it's about a lot of little customers within that big customer. >> Right, now you bought into Cloud early in. I think you were actually at a VC firm looking at Cloud and obviously you're at Gainsight and SAS Application. As you look forward, you just got off a panel, what's next? Where do you see the next big evolution or revolution, if you will, in the way IT services and software are delivered? >> Totally, I think the biggest thing that's happening right now is that Cloud is just a delivery vehicle, I think everyone knows that. SAS is kind of table stakes. Mainstream companies are saying, how do I reinvent my core business by shifting to these business models that are digitally enabled? People call that digital transformation. That's what this panel we just did was all about. That's happening not just in Silicon Valley, that's happening in manufacturers and retailers and financial services companies. When they do that, they're rethinking everything about what they do, how they manage product development, how they actually sell, and also the customer experience, which is where we come in. We think the biggest thing is kind of obvious, it's digital transformation. Underneath that, you can leverage all kinds of new technologies whether it's artificial intelligence, machine learning, bots. But the transformation of mainstream businesses is happening at a rapid speed right now. >> I want to get one last point before we let you go, the impact of social, direct social back to these big companies. My favorite one is Comcast Cares. Every time my internet goes down, I jump on and I tweet-- >> Nick: Oh my God. >> Give my internet back! >> I feel for those Comcast Cares social people. They deal with a lot of mean words. >> No, this is not Xfinity Cares, this is Comcast Cares. But it's a really interesting paradox for companies, because people can reach out directly in kind of a semi public forum, which it wasn't, you know, just calling the 1800 number. How are they integrating that into this customer relationship management? >> Oh my God, we talk about the fact that customers have more power and they have bigger voices. One customer has a much bigger voice than they ever did, and so you have this amazing opportunity to either create a great advocate who could bring you new customers and new sales, or create all these detractors. I think that that public voicing of customer experience has made CEOs much more aware of why it matters. Before, a customer has a bad experience, they type up a letter and mail it to some office that nobody ever reads, and now, this CEO is seeing on her or his Facebook or Twitter feed or LinkedIn the customer upset, and I think that's making them much more aware of customer experience being really important. >> Right, right, and are you seeing, it's interesting to me, there's some senior executives, Michael Dell, Beth Comstock, just picked two out of the hat, that are super active on social-- >> Nick: Oh my gosh, yeah. >> Directly engaging with their community. There's other big companies, which I won't name, where people don't even have a LinkedIn account-- >> That's right. >> Much less a Twitter account. Is there a direct correlation that you're seeing between embracing a direct engagement with your community versus, "Eh, I don't want to say anything bad," which I think, it's either or the other. >> Yeah, I empathize with the fear, because I think people worry about saying something bad, so I get it. I think it's definitely misguided and kind of backwards. You can't stick your head in the sand anymore. Take somebody like Marc Benioff, who's so great at this, and he's on Twitter, he's advocating for causes. He's taking, maybe, controversial stands in some cases, but he's putting himself out there and he cares about his customers. Same thing with Michael Dell, same thing with Beth Comstock. There's so many great CEOs out there, so honestly, at this point, if you're not out there, you look like you have something to hide, right? (laughter) Which is not good. >> Which is not good. Alright, Nick, thanks for taking-- >> Thanks so much, Jeff. >> A few minutes, and congratulations. I saw you were a Top 50 SAS CEO of 2017, and continued success at Gainsight. >> I don't know how I made that list, but I felt honored, so thank you so much. >> Absolutely. >> I really appreciate it. >> We'll see you next time. He's Nick Mehta, I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching theCUBE from PagerDuty Summit 2017. Thanks for watching.

>> Voiceover: From San Jose, California, it's The Cube, covering big data Silicon Valley 2017. >> Welcome back, everyone. Live in Silicon Valley for BigData SV, BigData Silicon Valley. This is Silicon Angles, The Cube's event in Silicon Valley, with our companion event, BigData NYC, in conjunction with O'Reilly, Strata, Hadoop, Hadoop World, our eighth year. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Jeff Frick, breaking down all the action, and our superguest, Abhi Mehta, the CEO of Tresata. He's been on every year since 2010, and the CEO of very successful Tresata, building out the vertical approach in financial net health. Welcome back, good to see you. Thank you, John, always good to see you. >> The annual pilgrimage to have you on The Cube. >> Abhi: This is literally a pilgrimage. I was exchanging messages with your co-host here, and he was pinging me, saying, "You got to come here, you got to get to this thing." I made it. The pilgrimage is successful. >> Yeah, a lot's happened, right? Data's the new oil. We've heard it over again. You had the seminal first interview in 2010, calling the oil refineries the data refineries. Turns out that was true. We always love to talk about that prediction every time you're on, but it's so much going on now. You can't believe the shift. Certainly, Hadoop has got a nice little niche position as Batch, but real time processing, you've seen the convergence of Batch, and streaming, and all that good stuff in real time, with the advances of clouds, certainly, more compute, Intel processors are getting more powerful, 5G over the top, you have connective cars, smart cities, on and on, IoT, Internet of things, all powering this new deep learning and AI trend. Man, it is game changes. I see this as a step-up function. What's your thoughts? This is going to create more data, more action. >> I agree with you. I always remind myself, John, especially when I talk to you guys, and we were chatting about this right before we went on air, which is, as smart as we as humans are, trends repeat themself. I'll be talking about AI. We all went to school, and did things in AI, you know? The whole neural networks thing has not been new. It's almost like fashion. Bell bottoms come in fashion every 20 years. I will never be seen in them again. Hopefully, neither will you. AI seems to be like that. I think the thing that hasn't changed, and yes, absolutely agree with you, that as escrows shift, as you've said, almost at this point a decade ago, there's a fundamentally new technology escrow shift under way, and escrow shifts take time. We will look back at this 10 years saying it was literally the first, second inning of this new escrow shift. I think we are entering the second innings where the conversation around Batch, real time storage, databases, the stacks, is becoming less important, and AI and deep learnings are examples of it, conversations on, how can you leverage cheaper, better, faster technology to solve and answer unanswered problems is becoming interesting. I think the basics haven't changed though. What we have spoken with you for almost eight years remain the same. The three basics around every technology trend remain the same. I think you guys will agree with me. Let me just play it by you and you can either contest it or agree with me. Data is the new competitive effort. It is unequivocally clear that the new asset, the most valuable enterprise asset has become data, and we've seen it in data companies, Facebook, Google, Uber, Airbnb, they're all fundamentally data companies. Data is the new competitive effort. The more you have of it, the better off you are. I always love people who say, "Big Data, this is a bad term." It isn't, because big data, fundamentally, in those two words, defines the very pieces of what we built Tresata on, which is, the more data you have, and if you can process and extract intelligence from it, borrowing your term, extract signal from the noise, you can make a lot of money on it. I think that fundamental basic hasn't changed. >> Big Data, to me, was always about big storage kind of a view. We coined the term Fast Data on The Cube, so that now speaks to the real time. It's interesting. I just see that the four main new areas that are being talked about outside of the Big Data world are autonomous vehicles, smart cities, smart home, and media and entertainment, and each one of those, I would say that the data is the new weaponization. There's an article that was great this month called "Weaponizing AI," and it had to do with Breitbart, and the election, and that's media and entertainment. You've got Netflix, all these new companies. Data is content, content is data. It's a digital asset. This AI component fits into autonomous vehicles, it fits into media and entertainment, fits into smart cities, and smart home. >> You also raise a very interesting point. I think that we can take comfort in the fact that we have seen this happen. This is not an idea anymore, or it's not just a wild idea anymore, which is, we have seen massive disruption happen in consumer industries. Google has created a brand new industry in how to market stuff, could be any stuff. Facebook created a brand new way of not just being in touch with your friends globally, 'cause people have thousands of friends, not true, but also, how do you monetize deep preferences, right? A twist on deep learning, but deep, deep preferences. If I know what Jeff likes, I can market to him better. I think we're about to see, the industries you just mention, is, where will success come from in enterprise software? I always ask myself that question when I come to any of these conferences, Strata, others, there's now an AI conference. What will the disruption that we have seen happen in consumer industries, we'll just mention automobiles, media entertainment, et cetera, what is going to happen to enterprise software? I think the time is ripe in the next five years to see the emergence of massive scale creation. I actually don't think it'll get disrupted. I think we will see, just like with Facebook, Google, Uber, the creation of brand new industries in enterprise software. I think that's going to be interesting. >> Mark Cuban said at South by Southwest this week, where The Cube was with the AI lounge with Intel, he was on stage saying, "The first tech trillionaire "will come out of deep learning," and deep learning is kind of the underpins for AI, if you look at all the geek stuff. To your point that a new shift of opportunity, whether it comes in from the enterprise side, or consumer, or algorithmic side, is that there's never been a trillionaire. >> Abhi: No, there hasn't. >> I want to push back a little bit, because I don't think it always was that way with data. We used to have sampling. It was all about sophistication on sampling, and data was expensive to store, expensive to collect, and expensive to manage. I think that's where the significant change is. The economics of collecting, and storing, and analyzing are such that sampling is no longer the preferred method. To your point, it's the bigness. >> Absolutely, you know exactly where I stand on that. >> Jeff: Now it's an asset. >> You know exactly where I stand on that. I said on The Cube, at this point, almost a decade ago, sampling is dead, and it's for that particular reason. I think the reality is that it has become a very tricky area to be in. Buzzwords aside, whether it's deep learning, AI, streaming, Batch, doesn't matter, Flash, all buzzwords aside, the very interesting thing is, are we seeing, as a community, the emergence of new enterprise software business models? I think ours is an example. We are now six years old. We announced Tresata on The Cube. We have celebrated our significant milestones on The Cube. We'll announce today that we are now a valuable member of society in terms of you pay tax as a company, another big milestone for a company. We have never raised venture money. We had a broad view when we started that every single thing we have learned as a industry enterprise software, the stack, databases, storage, BI, algorithms are free. Dave was talking about this earlier this week. Algorithms, analytical tools, will all become free. What is this new class of enterprise software that creates value that can then be sold as value? Buyers, corporations are becoming smart to realize and say, "Maybe I can't hire people "as smart as some of the web industries "on this side of the coast, "but I can still hire good talent, the tool set is free. "Should I build versus buy?" It fundamentally changes the conversation. Databases is a $2 trillion industry. Where does that value shift to if databases are free? I think that's what is going to be interesting to see, is, what model creates the new enterprise software industry? What is that going to be? I do agree with Mark Cuban's statement, that the answer is going to lie in, if the building blocks are free and commoditized, you guys know exactly where I stand on that one, if the building blocks are commoditized, how do you add value in the building block? It comes from the point you made, industry knowledge, data, owning data and domain knowledge. If you can combine deep domain expertise to be an advanced application that solve business problems, people don't want to know if the data is stored in a free HDFS system, or in some other system, or quantum computing, people don't care. >> I got to get your take on the data layer because this is where it's come. We had a lot of guests on saying, with the cloud, you can rent things, algorithms are free, so essentially, commoditization has happened, which is a good thing, more compute, everything else is all great, all the goodness around that. You still own your data. The data layer seems to be the LAN grab, metadata. How do you cross-connect the data layer to be consistent fabric? >> Here's how we think of it, and this is something we haven't shared publicly yet, but I believe you see us talk a lot more about this. We believe there are three new layers in the technology fabric. There is what we call the hardware operating system. The battle has been won by a company that we all like a lot, Red Hat, I think mostly won. Then there is what we call the data operating system, what you call the data layer. I think there's a new layer emerging where people like us sit. We call it the analytics operating system. The data layer will commoditize as much as the hardware operating system, what I call the layer, commoditized. The data operating system fight is moot. Metadata should not be charged for. Massive data management, draining the swamp, whatever you want to call it, every single thing in the data operating system is a commodity where you need volumes, you all are businessmen, you need volumes, in the P times V game, you need volumes to sustain a profit business model. The interesting action, in my opinion, is going to come in the analytics operating system. You are now automating hardcore, what I call, finding intelligence questions, whether it's using deep learning, AI, or whatever other buzzword the industry dreams up in the next five years, whatever the buzzwords may be, immaterial, the layer that automates the extraction of intelligence from massive amounts of data sitting in the data layer, no matter who owns it, our opinion is, Tresata, as an enterprise software player, is not interested to be a data owner. That game, I can't play anymore, right? You guys are a content company, though. You guys are data owners, and you have incredible value in the data you're building. For us, it is, I want to be the tool builder for this next gold rush. If you need the tools to extract intelligence from your data, who's going to give you those tools? I think all that value sits in what we call the analytics operating system. The world hasn't seen enough players in it yet. >> This is an interesting mind bender, if you think about it. When you said, "analytics operating system," that rings a few bells and gets the hair standing on the back of my head up because we're in a systems world now. We kind of talk about this in The Cube where operating systems concepts are very much in play. If you look at this ecosystem and who's winning, who's losing, who's struggling, who's falling away, is, the winners are nailing the integration game, and they're nailing the functional game, I think, a core functional component of an operating environment, AKA, the cloud, AKA data. >> Agreed. >> Having those functional systems, as an operating system game. What is your view of what an analytics operating system? What are some of those components? I mean, most operating systems have a linker, loader, filer, all these things going on. What's your thoughts on this analytical operating system? What is it made of? >> It's made of three core components that we have now invested six years in. The first one is exactly what you said. We don't use the word integration. We now call it the same word, we have been saying it for six years, we call it the factory, but it's very similar, which is, the ability to go to a company or enterprises with unique data assets, and enrich, I will borrow your term, integrate, enrich. We call it the data factory, the automation of 90% of the workload to make data sitting in a swamp usable data, part one. We call that creation of a data asset, a nice twist or separation from the word data warehousing we all grew up on. That's number one, the ability to make raw data usable. It's actually quite hard. If you haven't built a company squarely on data, you have to be able to buy it because building is very hard, number one. Number two is what I call the infusion of domain-centric knowledge. Can industries and industry players take expert systems and convert them into machine systems? The moment we convert expert systems into machine systems, we can do automation at very large scale. As you can imagine, the ability to add value is exponentially higher for each of those tiers, from data asset to now infusion of domain knowledge, to take an expert into a machine system, but the value trade is incredibly large as well. If you actually have the system built out, you can afford to sell it for all the value. That's number two, the ability to take expert system, go to machine systems. Number three is the most interesting, and we are very early in it. I use the term on The Cube, I'm going to be more forward-thinking over here, which is automation. Today, the best we can do with leveraging incredibly smart machines, algorithms, at scale on massive amounts of data is augmenting humans. I do fundamentally believe, just like self-driving cars, that the era where software will automate a tremendous amount of business processes in all industries is upon us. How long it takes, I think we will see it in our lifetimes too. When you and I have both a little bit more gray hair, we're saying, "Remember, we said about that? "I think automation's going to come." I do believe automation will happen. Currently, it's all about augmentation, but I do believe that business-- >> John: Cubebots are coming. We're going to have some Cubebots. >> We will have Cubebots. >> John: Automated Cube broadcasting. >> John, we'll give them your magnificent hair, and they know they'll do it. I do believe automation of complex human processes, the era of enlightenment, is upon us, where we will be able to take incredibly manual activities, like hailing a car today, to complex activities, looking at transaction information, trading information, in split second time, even quicker than real time, and making the right trading decision to make sure that Jeff's kids go to college in a robo-advisor-like mode. It's all early, but the augmentation will transform to automation, and that will take some time to do them at three tiers in the AOS. >> Then, if we are successful at converting the expert to machine system, will the value of that expert system quickly be driven to zero due to the same factors that automation has added to many other things that have been sucked in? >> You guys always blow my mind. You always push my thinking when I come here. >> I just love the concept, but then, will the same economics that have driven asumtotically approaching zero costs, then now go to these expert systems? >> You know the answer. The answer is absolutely, yes. The question then becomes, how long of an era is it? What we have learned in technology is escrow shifts take time. This era of enlightenment, what I'm calling the era of enlightenment, that enterprise software is about to enable, and leaving aside all other buzzwords, whether it's deep learning, AI, machines, chatbot, doesn't matter, the era of enlightenment is absolute. I think there'll be two things. First of all, it'll take time to mature. Yes, whether it's 50 years, 40 years, or 30 years, does it, at some point, become it's own commodity? Absolutely. The marginal value we can deliver with a machine, at some point, does go to zero, because it commoditizes it, at scale, it commoditizes it, absolutely, but does that mean the next 30 years will not be a renaissance in enterprise software? Absolutely not. I think we will see ... Let's take the enterprise IT market, what, two to three trillion dollars a year? All of it is up for grabs, and we will see in the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years that, as it is up for grabs, tremendous amount of value will be re-traded and recreated in completely new industry models. I think that's the exciting part. I won't live for 50 years, so it's okay. >> I know we got a minute or so left. I want to get your thoughts on something that we're seeing here, The Cube this year pointed out. We've kind of teased around it, but again, Batch and real time process streaming, all that's coming together. The center of that's IoT data and AI, is causing product gaps. There are some gaps that are developing, either a pure play Batch player, or your real time, some people have been one or the other, some are integrating in. When you try to blend it together, there's product gaps, organizational gaps, and then process gaps. Can you talk about how companies are solving that? Because one supplier might have a great Batch solution, data lake, some might have streaming and whatnot. Now there seems to be more of an integrated approach, bringing those worlds together, but it's causing some gaps. How do companies figure that out? >> I believe there's only one way, in the near term, and then potentially even moreso in the long term, to bridge that divide that you talk about. There absolutely is a divide. It's been very interesting for us especially. I'll use our example to answer your question. We have a very advanced health analytics application to go after diabetes. The challenge is, in order to run it, not only do you need lots and lots of data, IoT, streamed, real time from sensors you wear on your body, you need that. Not only do you need the ability and processing power to crunch all that data, not only do you need the specific algorithms to find insights that were not findable before, the unanswered questions, but the last point, you need to be able to then deliver it across all channels so you can monetize it. That is a end-to-end, what I call, business process around data monetization. Our customers don't care about it. They come to Tresata and they say, "I love your predictive diabetes outcomes application. "I have rented the system from the cloud," Amazon, Azure, I think at this point, only two players. We don't see Google much in it. I'm sure they're doing something in it. We have rented you the wheels, and the steering, and the body, so if you want to put it together to run your car on the track, you could. Everything else is containerized by us. I call them advanced analytics applications. They're fully managed. They run on any environment that is given to them because they are resource ready, whatever environment they play in, and they are completely backwards and forwards integrated. I think you will see the emergence of a class of enterprise software, what we call advanced analytics applications, that actually take away the pain from enterprises to worry about those gaps, 'cause in our case, in that example I just gave you, yes, there are gaps, but we have done it enough off a automation cycle on the business process itself, that we can title with the gaps. >> Abhi, we got to go. Glad we could squeeze you in. >> Abhi: Thank you. >> Quick 30 seconds, the show this year, what are you seeing? What's the buzz coming out of? What's the meat, what's the buzz from the show here? What's the story? >> I continue to believe that we are in an era that will redefine what we have seen humans do. The people at the show continue to surprise me because the questions they've been asking over the last eight years have slightly changed. I'm done with buzzwords. I don't pay attention to buzzwords anymore. I see a maturation. I think I said it to you before. I see more bald heads and big pates. When I see that in shows like these, it gives me hope that, when people who grew up in a different escrow have borrowed a new escrow, the pace would strengthen. As always, phenomenal show, great community. The community's changing and looking different in a good way. >> We feel your pain in the buzzword. As we proceed down this epic digital transformation, over the top, 5G, autonomous vehicles, Big Data analytics, moving the needle, all this headroom, future proofing, AI, machine learning, thanks for sharing. >> Abhi: Thank you so much, as always. >> More buzzwords, more signal from the noise here on The Cube. I'm John Furrier, Jeff Frick, and George Gilbert will be back right after this short break. (electronic music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to this startup showcase. It's great to be here and talk about some of the innovations we are doing at AWS, how we work with our partner community, especially our open source partners. My name is Deepak Singh. I run our compute services organization, which is a very vague way of saying that I run a number of things that are connected together through compute. Very specifically, I run a container services organization. So for those of you who are into containers, ECS, EKS, fargate, ECR, App Runner Those are all teams that are within my org. I also run the Amazon Linux and BottleRocketing. So anything AWS does with Linux, both externally and internally, as well as our high-performance computing team. And perhaps very relevant to this discussion, I run the Amazon open source program office. Serving at AWS for over 13 years, almost 14, involved with compute in various ways, including EC2. What that has done has given me a vantage point of seeing how our customers use the services that we build for them, how they leverage various partner solutions, and along the way, how AWS itself has gotten involved with opensource. And I'll try and talk to you about some of those factors and how they impact, how you consume our services. So why don't we get started? So for many of you, you know, one of the things, there's two ways to look at AWS and open-source and Amazon in general. One is the number of contributors you may have. And the number of repositories that contribute to. Those are just a couple of measures. There are people that I work with on a regular basis, who will remind you that, those are not perfect measures. Sometimes you could just contribute to one thing and have outsized impact because of the nature of that thing. But it address being what it is, increasingly we'll look at different ways in which we can help contribute and enhance open source 'cause we consume a lot of it as well. I'll talk about it very specifically from the space that I work in the container space in particular, where we've worked a lot with people in the Kubernetes community. We've worked a lot with people in the broader CNCF community, as well as, you know, small projects that our customers might have got started off with. For example, I want to like talking about is Argo CD from Intuit. We were very actively involved with helping them figure out what to do with it. And it was great to see how into it. And we worked, etc, came together to think about get-ups at the Kubernetes level. And while those are their projects, we've always been involved with them. So we try and figure out what's important to our customers, how we can help and then take because of that. Well, let's talk about a little bit more, here's some examples of the kinds of open source projects that Amazon and AWS contribute to. They arranged from the open JDK. I think we even now have our own implementation of Java, the Corretto open source project. We contribute to projects like rust, where we are very active in the rest foundation from a leadership role as well, the robot operating system, just to pick some, we collaborate with Facebook and actively involved with the pirates project. And there's many others. You can see all the logos in here where we participate either because they're important to us as AWS in the services that we run or they're important to our customers and the services that they consume or the open source projects they care about and how we get to those. How we get and make those decisions is often depends on the importance of that particular project. At that point in time, how much impact they're having to AWS customers, or sometimes very feel that us contributing to that project is super critical because it helps us build more robust services. I'll talk about it in a completely, you know, somewhat different basis. You may have heard of us talk about our new next generation of Amazon Linux 2022, which is based on fedora as its sub stream. One of the reasons we made this decision was it allows us to go and participate in the preneurial project and make sure that the upstream project is robust, stays robust. And that, that what that ends up being is that Amazon Linux 2022 will be a robust operating system with the kinds of capabilities that our customers are asking for. That's just one example of how we think about it. So for example, you know, the Python software foundation is something that we work with very closely because so many of our customers use Python. So we help run something like PyPy which is many, you know, if you're a Python developer, I happened to be a Ruby one, but lots of our customers use Python and helping the Python project be robust by making sure PyPy is available to everybody is something that we help provide credits for help support in other ways. So it's not just code. It can mean many different ways of contributing as well, but in the end code and operations is where we hang our happens. Good examples of this is projects that we will create an open source because it makes sense to make sure that we open source some of the core primitives or foundations that are part of our own services. A great example of that, whether this be things that we open source or things that we contribute to. And I'll talk about both and I'll talk about things near and dear to my heart. There's many examples I've picked the two that I like talking about. The first of these is firecracker. Many of you have heard about it, a firecracker for those of you who don't know is a very lightweight virtual machine manager, which allows you to run these micro VMs. And why was this important many years ago when we started Lambda and quite honestly, Fugate and foggy, it still runs quite a bit in that mode, we used to have to run on VMs like everything else and finding the right VM for the size of tasks that somebody asks for the size of function that somebody asks for is requires us to provision capacity ahead of time. And it also wastes a lot of capacity because Lambda function is small. You won't even if you find the smallest VM possible, those can be a little that can be challenging. And you know, there's a lot of resources that are being wasted. VM start at a particular speed because they have to do a whole bunch of things before the operating system spins up and the virtual machine spins up and we asked ourselves, can we do better? come up with something that allows us to create right size, very lightweight, very fast booting. What's your machines, micro virtual machine that we ended up calling them. That's what led to firecracker. And we open source the project. And today firecrackers use, not just by AWS Lambda or foggy, but by a number of other folks, there's companies like fly IO that are using it. We know people using firecracker to run Kubernetes on prem on bare metal as an example. So we've seen a lot of other folks embrace it and use it as the foundation for building their own serverless services, their own container services. And we think there's a lot of value and learnings that we can bring to the table because we get the experience of operating at scale, but other people can bring to the table cause they may have specific requirements that we may not find it as important from an AWS perspective. So that's firecracker an example of a project where we contribute because we feel it's fundamentally important to us as continually. We were found, you know, we've been involved with continuity from the beginning. Today, we are a whole team that does nothing else, but contribute to container D because container D underlies foggy. It underlies our Kubernetes offerings. And it's increasingly being used by customers directly by their placement. You know, where they're running container D instead of running a full on Docker or similar container engine, what it has allowed us to do is focus on what's important so that we can operate continuously at scale, keep it robust and secure, add capabilities to it that AWS customers need manifested often through foggy Kubernetes, but in the end, it's a win-win for everybody. It makes continuously better. If you want to use containers for yourself on AWS, that's a great way to you. You know, you still, you still benefit from all the work that we're doing. The decision we took was since it's so important to us and our customers, we wanted a team that lived in breathed container D and made sure a super robust and there's many, many examples like that. No, that we ended up participating in, either by taking a project that exists or open sourcing our own. Here's an example of some of the open source projects that we have done from an AWS on Amazon perspective. And there's quite a few when I was looking at this list, I was quite surprised, not quite surprised I've seen the reports before, but every time I do, I have to recount and say, that's a lot more than one would have thought, even though I'd been looking at it for such a long time, examples of this in my world alone are things like, you know, what work had to do with Amazon Linux BottleRocket, which is a container host operating system. That's been open-sourced from day one. Firecracker is something we talked about. We have a project called AWS peril cluster, which allows you to spin up high performance computing clusters on AWS using the kind of schedulers you may use to use like slum. And that's an open source project. We have plenty of source projects in the web development space, in the security space. And more recently things like the open 3d engine, which is something that we are very excited about and that'd be open sourced a few months ago. And so there's a number of these projects that cover everything from tooling to developer, application frameworks, all the way to database and analytics and machine learning. And you'll notice that in a few areas, containers, as an example, machine learning as an example, our default is to go with open source option is where we can open source. And it makes sense for us to do so where we feel the product community might benefit from it. That's our default stance. The CNCF, the cloud native computing foundation is something that we've been involved with quite a bit. You know, we contribute to Kubernetes, be contribute to Envoy. I talked about continuity a bit. We've also contributed projects like CDK 8, which marries the AWS cloud development kit with Kubernetes. It's now a sandbox project in Kubernetes, and those are some of the areas. CNCF is such a wide surface area. We don't contribute to everything, but we definitely participate actively in CNCF with projects like HCB that are critical to eat for us. We are very, very active in just how the project evolves, but also try and see which of the projects that are important to our customers who are running Kubernetes maybe by themselves or some other project on AWS. Envoy is a good example. Kubernetes itself is a good example because in the end, we want to make sure that people running Kubernetes on AWS, even if they are not using our services are successful and we can help them, or we can work on the projects that are important to them. That's kind of how we think about the world. And it's worked pretty well for us. We've done a bunch of work on the Kubernetes side to make sure that we can integrate and solve a customer problem. We've, you know, from everything from models to work that we have done with gravity on our arm processor to a virtual GPU plugin that allows you to share and media GPU resources to the elastic fabric adapter, which are the network device for high performance computing that it can use at Kubernetes on AWS, along with things that directly impact Kubernetes customers like the CDKs project. I talked about work that we do with the container networking interface to the Amazon control of a Kubernetes, which is an open source project that allows you to use other AWS services directly from Kubernetes clusters. Again, you notice success, Kubernetes, not EKS, which is a managed Kubernetes service, because if we want you to be successful with Kubernetes and AWS, whether using our managed service or running your own, or some third party service. Similarly, we worked with premetheus. We now have a managed premetheus service. And at reinvent last year, we announced the general availability of this thing called carpenter, which is a provisioning and auto-scaling engine for Kubernetes, which is also an open source project. But here's the beauty of carpenter. You don't have to be using EKS to use it. Anyone running Kubernetes on AWS can leverage it. We focus on the AWS provider, but we've built it in such a way that if you wanted to take carpenter and implemented on prem or another cloud provider, that'd be completely okay. That's how it's designed and what we anticipated people may want to do. I talked a little bit about BottleRocket it's our Linux-based open-source operating system. And the thing that we have done with BottleRocket is make sure that we focus on security and the needs of customers who want to run orchestrated container, very focused on that problem. So for example, BottleRocket only has essential software needed to run containers, se Linux. I just notice it says that's the lineups, but I'm sure that, you know, Lena Torvalds will be pretty happy. And seeing that SE linux is enabled by default, we use things like DM Verity, and it has a read only root file system, no shell, you can assess it. You can install it if you wanted to. We allowed it to create different bill types, variants as we call them, you can create a variant for a non AWS resource as well. If you have your own homegrown container orchestrator, you can create a variant for that. It's designed to be used in many different contexts and all of that is open sourced. And then we use the update framework to publish and secure repository and kind of how this transactional system way of updating the software. And it's something that we didn't invent, but we have embraced wholeheartedly. It's a bottle rockets, completely open source, you know, have partners like Aqua, where who develop security tools for containers. And for them, you know, something I bought in rocket is a natural partnership because people are running a container host operating system. You can use Aqua tooling to make sure that they have a secure Indiana environment. And we see many more examples like that. You may think so over us, it's all about AWS proprietary technology because Lambda is a proprietary service. But you know, if you look peek under the covers, that's not necessarily true. Lambda runs on top of firecracker, as we've talked about fact crackers and open-source projects. So the foundation of Lambda in many ways is open source. What it also allows people to do is because Lambda runs at such extreme scale. One of the things that firecracker is really good for is running at scale. So if you want to build your own firecracker base at scale service, you can have most of the confidence that as long as your workload fits the design parameters, a firecracker, the battle hardening the robustness is being proved out day-to-day by services at scale like Lambda and foggy. For those of you who don't know service support services, you know, in the end, our goal with serverless is to make sure that you don't think about all the infrastructure that your applications run on. We focus on business logic as much as you can. That's how we think about it. And serverless has become its own quote-unquote "Sort of environment." The number of partners and open-source frameworks and tools that are spun up around serverless. In which case mostly, I mean, Lambda, API gateway. So it says like that is pretty high. So, you know, number of open source projects like Zappa server serverless framework, there's so many that have come up that make it easier for our customers to consume AWS services like Lambda and API gateway. We've also done some of our own tooling and frameworks, a serverless application model, AWS jealous. If you're a Python developer, we have these open service runtimes for Lambda, rust dot other options. We have amount of number of tools that we opened source. So in general, you'll find that tooling that we do runtime will tend to be always be open-sourced. We will often take some of the guts of the things that we use to build our systems like firecracker and open-source them while the control plane, etc, AWS services may end up staying proprietary, which is the case in Lambda. Increasingly our customers build their applications and leverage the broader AWS partner network. The AWS partner network is a network of partnerships that we've built of trusted partners. when you go to the APN website and find a partner, they know that that partner meets a certain set of criteria that AWS has developed, and you can rely on those partners for your own business. So whether you're a little tiny business that wants some function fulfill that you don't have the resources for or large enterprise that wants all these applications that you've been using on prem for a long time, and want to keep leveraging them in the cloud, you can go to APN and find that partner and then bring their solution on as part of your cloud infrastructure and could even be a systems integrator, for example, to help you solve this specific development problem that you may have a need for. Increasingly, you know, one of the things we like to do is work with an apartment community that is full of open-source providers. So a great one, there's so many, and you have, we have a panel discussion with many other partners as well, who make it easier for you to build applications on AWS, all open source and built on open source. But I like to call it a couple of them. The first one of them is TIDELIFT. TIDELIFT, For those of you who don't know is a company that provides SAS based tools to curate track, manage open source catalogs. You know, they have a whole network of maintainers and providers. They help, if you're an independent open developer, or a smart team should probably get to know TIDELIFT. They provide you benefits and, you know, capabilities as a developer and maintainer that are pretty unique and really help. And I've seen a number of our open source community embraced TIDELIFT quite honestly, even before they were part of the APN. But as part of the partner network, they get to participate in things like ISP accelerate and they get to they're officially an advanced tier partner because they are, they migrated the SAS offering onto AWS. But in the end, if you're part of the open source supply chain, you're a maintainer, you are a developer. I would recommend working with TIDELIFT because their goal is making all of you who are developing open source solutions, especially on AWS, more successful. And that's why I enjoy this partnership with them. And I'm looking to do a lot more because I think as a company, we want to make sure that open source developers don't feel like they are not supported because all you have to do is read various forums. It's challenging often to be a maintainer, especially of a small project. So I think with helping with licensing license management, security identification remediation, helping these maintainers is a big part of what TIDELIFT to us and it was great to see them as part of a partner network. Another partner that I like to call sysdig. I actually got introduced to them many years ago when they first launched. And one of the things that happened where they were super interested in some of our serverless stuff. And we've been trying to figure out how we can work together because all of our customers are interested in the capabilities that cystic provides. And over the last few years, he found a number of areas where we can collaborate. So sysdig, I know them primarily in a security company. So people use cystic to secure the bills, detect, you know, do threat response, threat detection, completely continuously validate their posture, get this continuous analytics signal on how they're doing and monitor performance. At the end of it, it's a SAS platform. They have a very nice open source security stack. The one I'm most familiar with. And I think most of you are probably familiar with is Falco. You know, sysdig, a CNCF project has been super popular. It's just to go SSS what 3, 37, 40 million downloads by now. So that's pretty, pretty cool. And they have been a great partner because we've had to do make sure that their solution works at target, which is not a natural place for their software to run, but there was enough demand and interest from our customers that, you know, or both companies leaned in to make sure they can be successful. So last year sister got a security competency. We have a number of specific competencies that we for our partners, they have integration and security hub is great. partners are lean in the way cystic has onto making our customer successful. And working with us are the best partners that we have. And there's a number of open source companies out there built on open source where their entire portfolio is built on open source software or the active participants like we are that we love working with on a day to day basis. So, you know, I think the thing I would like to, as we wind this out in this presentation is, you know, AWS is constantly looking for partnerships because our partners enable our customers. They could be with companies like Redis with Mongo, confluent with Databricks customers. Your default reaction might be, "Hey, these are companies that maybe compete with AWS." but no, I mean, I think we are partners as well, like from somebody at the lower end of the spectrum where people run on top of the services that I own on Linux and containers are SE 2, For us, these partners are just as important customers as any AWS service or any third party, 20 external customer. And so it's not a zero sum game. We look forward to working with all these companies and open source projects from an AWS perspective, a big part of how, where my open source program spends its time is making it easy for our developers to contribute, to open source, making it easy for AWS teams to decide when to open source software or participate in open source projects. Over the last few years, we've made significant changes in how we reduce the friction. And I think you can see it in the results that I showed you earlier in this stock. And the last one is one of the most important things that I say and I'll keep saying that, that we do as AWS is carry the pager. There's a lot of open source projects out there, operationalizing them, running them at scale is not easy. It's not all for whatever reason. It may not have anything to do with the software itself. But our core competency is taking that and being really good at operating it and becoming experts at operating it. And then ideally taking that expertise and experience and operating that project, that software and contributing back upstream. Cause that makes it better for everybody. And I think you'll see us do a lot more of that going forward. We've been doing that for the last few years, you know, in the container space, we do it every day. And I'm excited about the possibilities. With that. Thank you very much. And I hope you enjoy the rest of the showcase. >> Okay. Welcome back. We have Deepak sing here. We just had the keynote closing keynote vice-president of compute services. Deepak. Great to a great keynote, great wisdom and insight from that session. A very notable highlights and cutting edge trends and product information. Thanks for sharing. >> No, anytime it's always good to be here. It's too bad that we still doing this virtually, but always good to talk to you, John. >> We'll get hopefully through this way pretty quickly, I want to jump right in. Cause we don't have a lot of time. I want to get some quick question. You've brought up a good things. Open source innovation. Okay. Going next level. You've seen the rise of super clouds and super apps developing at open source. You're seeing big companies contributing, you know, you mentioned Argo into it. You're seeing that dynamic where companies are forming around this. This is a rising tide. This is, this is actually real. It's not the old school of, okay, here's a project. And then someone manages support and commercialization of it. It's actually platform in cloud scale. This is next gen. >> Yeah. And actually I think it started a few years ago. We can talk about a company that, you know, you're very familiar with as part of this event, which is armory many years ago, Netflix spun off this project called Spinnaker. A Spinnaker is CISED you know, CSED system that was developed at Netflix for their own purposes, but they chose to open solicit. And since then, it's become very popular with customers who want to use it even on prem. And you have a company that spun up on it. I think what's making this world very unique is you have very large companies like Facebook that will build things for themselves like VITAS or Netflix with Spinnaker and open source them. And you can have a lot of discussion about why they chose to do so, etc. But increasingly that's becoming the default when Amazon or Netflix or Facebook or Mehta, I guess you call them these days, build something for themselves for their own needs. The first question we ask ourselves is, should it be opensource? And increasingly we are all saying yes. And here's what happens because of that. It gives an opportunity depending on how you open source it for innovation through commercial deployments, so that you get SaaS companies, you know, that are going to take that product and make it relevant and useful to a very broad number of customers. You build partnerships with cloud providers like AWS, because our customers love this open source project and they need help. And they may choose an AWS managed service, or they may end up working with this partner on a day-to-day basis. And we want to work with that partner because they're making our customers successful, which is one reason all of us are here. So you're having this set of innovation from large companies from, you know, whether they are just consumer companies like Metta infrastructure companies like us, or just random innovation that's happening in an open source project that which ends up in companies being spun up and that foster that innovative innovation and that flywheel that's happening right now. And I think you said that like, this is unique. I mean, you never saw this happen before from so many different directions. >> It really is a nice progression on the business model side as well. You mentioned Argo, which is a great organic thing that was Intuit developed. We just interviewed code fresh. They just presented here in the showcase as well. You seeing the formation around these projects develop now in the community at a different scale. I mean, look at code fresh. I mean, Intuit did it Argo and they're not just supporting it. They're building a platform. So you seeing the dynamics of tools and now emerging the platforms, you mentioned Lambda, okay. Which is proprietary for AWS and your talk powered by open source. So again, open source combined with cloud scale allows for new potential super applications or super clouds that are developing. This is a new phenomenon. This isn't just lift and shift and host on the cloud. This is actually a construction production developer workflow. >> Yeah. And you are seeing consumers, large companies, enterprises, startups, you know, it used to be that startups would be comfortable adopting some of these solutions, but now you see companies of all sizes doing so. And I said, it's not just software it's software, the services increasingly becoming the way these are given, delivered to customers. I actually think the innovation is just getting going, which is why we have this. We have so many partners here who are all in inventing and innovating on top of open source, whether it's developed by them or a broader community. >> Yeah. I liked, I liked the represent container. Do you guys have, did that drove that you've seen a lot of changes and again, with cloud scale and open source, you seeing the dynamics change, whether you're enabling that, and then you see kind of like real big change. So let's take snowflake, a big customer of AWS. They started out as a startup too, but they weren't a data warehouse. They were bringing data warehouse like functionality and then changing everything differently and making it consumable for the cloud. And hence they're huge. So that's a disruption into an incumbent leader or sector. Then you've got new capabilities emerging. What's your thoughts, Deepak? Can you share your vision on how you have the disruption to existing leaders, old guard, if you will, as you guys call them and then new capabilities as these new platforms emerge at a net new functionality, how do you see that emerging? >> Yeah. So I speak from my side of the world. I've lived in over the last few years, which has containers and serverless, right? There's a lot of, if you go to any enterprise and ask them, do you want to modernize the infrastructure? Do you want to take advantage of automated software delivery, continuous delivery infrastructure as code modern observability, all of them will say yes, but they also are still a large enterprise, which has these enterprise level requirements. I'm using the word enterprise a lot. And I usually it's a trigger word for me because so many customers have similar requirements, but I'm using it here as large company with a lot of existing software and existing practices. I think the innovation that's coming and I see a lot of companies doing that is saying, "Hey, we understand the problems you want to solve. We understand the world where you live in, which could be regulated." You want to use all these new modalities. How do we allow you to use all of them? Keep the advantages of switching to a Lambda or switching to, and a service running on far gate, but give you the same capabilities. And I think I'll bring up cystic here because we work so closely with them on Falco. As an example, I just talked about them in my keynote. They could have just said, "Oh no, we'll just support the SE2 and be done with it." They said, "No, we're going to make sure that serverless containers in particular are something that you're going to be really good at because our customers want to use them, but requires us to think differently. And then they ended up developing new things like Falco that are born in this new world, but understand the requirements of the old world. If you get what I'm saying. And I think that a real example. >> Yeah. Oh, well, I mean, first of all, they're smart. So that was pretty obvious for most people that know, sees that you can connect the dots on serverless, which is a great point, but not everyone can see that again, this is what's new and and systig was just found in his backyard. As I found out on my interview, a great, great founder, they would do a new thing. So it was a very easy to connect the dots there again, that's the trend. Well, I got to ask if they're doing that for serverless, you mentioned graviton in your speech and what came out of you mentioned graviton in your speech and what came out of re-invent this past year was all the innovation going on at the compute level with gravitron at many levels in the Silicon. How should companies and open source developers think about how to innovate with graviton? >> Yeah, I mean, you've seen examples from people blogging and tweeting about how fast their applications run and grab it on the price performance benefits that they get, whether it's on, you know, whether it's an observability or other places. something that AWS is going to embrace across a compute something that AWS is going to embrace across a compute portfolio. Obviously you can go find EC2 instances, the gravitron two instances and run on them and that'll be great. But we know that most of our customers, many of our customers are building new applications on serverless containers and serveless than even as containers increasingly with things like foggy, where they don't want to operate the underlying infrastructure. A big part of what we're doing is to make sure that graviton is available to you on every compute modality. You can run it on a C2 forever. You've been running, being able to use ECS and EKS and run and grab it on almost since launch. What do you want me to take it a step further? You elastic Beanstalk customers, elastic Beanstalk has been around for a decade, but you can now use it with graviton. people running ECS on for gate can now use graviton. Lambda customers can pick graviton as well. So we're taking this price performance benefits that you get So we're taking this price performance benefits that you get from graviton and basically putting it across the entire compute portfolio. What it means is every high level service that gets built on compute infrastructure. And you get the price performance benefits, you get the price performance benefits of the lower power consumption of arm processes. So I'm personally excited like crazy. And you know, this has graviton 2 graviton 3 is coming. >> That's incredible. It's an opportunity like serverless was it's pretty obvious. And I think hopefully everyone will jump on that final question as the time's ticking here. I want to get your thoughts quickly. If you look at what's happened with containers over the past say eight years since the original founding of the first Docker instance, if you will, to how that's evolved and then the introduction of Kubernetes and the cloud native wave we're seeing now, what is, how would you describe the relationship between the success Docker, seeing now with Kubernetes in the cloud native construct what's different and why is this combination so successful? >> Yeah. I often say that containers would have, let me rephrase that. what I say is that people would have adopted sort of the modern way of running applications, whether containers came around or not. But the fact that containers came around made that migration and that journey is so much more efficient for people. So right from, I still remember the first doc that Solomon gave Billy announced DACA and starting to use it on customers, starting to get interested all the way to the more sort of advanced orchestration that we have now for containers across the board. And there's so many examples of the way you can do that. Kubernetes being the most, most well-known one. Here's the thing that I think has changed. I think what Kubernetes or Docker, or the whole sort of modern way of building applications has done is it's taken people who would have taken years adopting these practices and by bringing it right to the fingertips and rebuilding it into the APIs. And in the case of Kubernetes building an entire sort of software world around it, the number of, I would say number of decisions people have to take has gone smaller in many ways. There's so many options, the number of decisions that become higher, but the com the speed at which they can get to a result and a production version of an application that works for them is way low. I have not seen anything like what I've seen in the last 6, 7, 8 years of how quickly the most you know, the most I would say is, you know, a company that you would think would never adopt modern technology has been able to go from, this is interesting to getting a production really quickly. And I think it's because the tooling makes it So, and the fact that you see the adoption that you see right and the fact that you see the adoption that you see right from the fact that you could do Docker run Docker, build Docker, you know, so easily back in the day, all the way to all the advanced orchestration you can do with container orchestrator is today. sort of taking all of that away as well. there's never been a better time to be a developer independent of whatever you're trying to build. And I think containers are a big central part of why that's happened. >> Like the recipe, the combination of cloud-scale, the timing of Kubernetes and the containerization concepts just explode as a beautiful thing. And it creates more opportunities and will challenges, which are opportunities that are net new, but it solves the automation piece that we're seeing this again, it's only makes things go faster. >> Yes. >> And that's the key trend. Deepak, thank you so much for coming on. We're seeing tons of open cloud innovations, thanks to the success of your team at AWS and being great participants in the community. We're seeing innovations from startups. You guys are helping enabling that. Of course, they want to live on their own and be successful and build their super clouds and super app. So thank you for spending the time with us. Appreciate. >> Yeah. Anytime. And thank you. And you know, this is a great event. So I look forward to people running software and building applications, using AWS services and all these wonderful partners that we have. >> Awesome, great stuff. Great startups, great next generation leaders emerging. When you see startups, when they get successful, they become the modern software applications platforms out there powering business and changing the world. This is the cube you're watching the AWS startup showcase. Season two episode one open cloud innovations on John Furrier your host, see you next time.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante last week's aws re invent brought into focus the degree to which cloud computing generally and aws specifically have impacted the technology landscape from making infrastructure orders of magnitude simpler to deploy to accelerating the pace of innovation to the formation of the world's most active and vibrant infrastructure ecosystem it's clear that aws has been the number one force for change in the technology industry in the last decade now going forward we see three high-level contributors from aws that will drive the next 10 years of innovation including one the degree to which data will play a defining role in determining winners and losers two the knowledge assimilation effect of aws's cultural processes such as two pizza teams customer obsession and working backwards and three the rise of super clouds that is clouds that run on top of hyperscale infrastructure that focus not only on i.t transformation but deeper business integration and digital transformation of entire industries hello everyone and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll review some of the takeaways from the 10th annual aws re invent conference and focus on how we see the rise of super clouds impacting the future of virtually all industries one of the most poignant moments for me was a conversation with steve mullaney at aw aws re invent he's the ceo of networking company aviatrix now just before we went on the cube nick sterile one of aviatrix's vcs looked up at steve and said it's happening now before i explain what that means this was the most important hybrid event of the year you know no one really knew what the crowd would be like but well over twenty 000 people came to reinvent and i'd say at least 25 to 26 000 people attended the expo and probably another 10 000 or more came without badges to have meetings and side meetings and do networking off the expo floor so let's call it somewhere between thirty to forty thousand people physically attended the reinvent and another two hundred thousand or more online so huge event now what nick sterile meant by its happening was the next era of cloud innovation is upon us and it's happening in earnest the cloud is expanding out to the edge aws is bringing its operating model its apis its primitives and services to more and more locations yes data and machine learning are critical we talk about that all the time but the ecosystem flywheel was so evident at this year's re invent more so than any other re invent partners were charged up you know there wasn't nearly as much chatter about aws competing with them rather there was much more excitement around the value that partners are creating on top of aws's massive platform now despite aggressive marketing from competitive hyperscalers other cloud providers and as a service or on-prem slash hybrid offerings aws lead appears to be accelerating a notable example is aws's efforts around custom silicon far more companies especially isvs are tapping into aws's silicon advancements we saw the announcement of graviton 3 and new chips for training and inference and as we've reported extensively aws is now on a curve a silicon curve that will outpace x86 vis-a-vis performance price performance cost power consumption and speed of innovation and its nitro platform is giving aws and its partners the greatest degree of optionality in the industry from cpus gpus intel amd and nvidia and very importantly arm-based custom silicon springing from aws's acquisition of annapurna aws started its custom silicon journey in 2008 and is and it has invested massive resources into this effort other hyperscalers notably microsoft google and alibaba which have the scale economics to justify such custom silicon efforts are just recently announcing initiatives in this regard others who don't have the scale will be relying on third-party silicon providers a perfectly reasonable strategy but because aws has control of the entire stack we believe it has a strategic advantage in this respect silicon especially is a domain where to quote andy jassy there is no compression algorithm for experience b on the curve matters a lot and the biggest story in my view this past week was the rise of the super clouds in his 2020 book with steve hamm frank slootman laid out the case for the rise of data cloud a title which i've conveniently stolen for this breaking analysis rise of the super cloud thank you frank in his book slootman made a case for companies to put data at the center of their organizations rather than organizing just around people for example the idea is to create data networks while people of course are critical organizing around data and enabling people to access and share data will lead to the democracy democratization of data and network effects will kick in this was essentially metcalfe's law for data bob metcalf was the inventor of ethernet ethernet he put forth that premise when we we both worked or the premise when we both worked for pat mcgovern at idg that the value of a network is proportional to the square of the number of its users or nodes on the network thought of another way the first connection isn't so valuable but the billionth connection is really valuable slootman's law if i may says the more people that have access to the data governed of course and the more data connections that can be shared or create sharing the more value will be realized from that data exponential value in fact okay but what is a super cloud super cloud is an architecture that taps the underlying services and primitives of hyperscale clouds to deliver incremental value above and beyond what's available from the public cloud provider a super cloud delivers capabilities through software consumed as services and can run on a single hyperscale cloud or span multiple clouds in fact to the degree that a super cloud can span multiple clouds and even on-premises workloads and hide the underlying complexity of the infrastructure supporting this work the more adoption and the more value will be realized now we've listed some examples of what we consider to be super clouds in the making snowflake is an example we use frequently frequently building a data cloud that spans multiple clouds and supports distributed data but governs that data centrally somewhat consistent with the data mesh approach that we've been talking about for quite some time goldman sachs announced at re invent this year a new data management cloud the goldman sachs financial cloud for data with amazon web services we're going to come back to that later nasdaq ceo adina friedman spoke at the day one keynote with adam silipsky of course the new ceo of aws and talked about the super cloud they're building they didn't use that term that's our term dish networks is building a super cloud to power 5g wireless networks united airlines is really in my view they're porting applications to aws as part of its digital transformation but eventually it will start building out a super cloud travel platform what was most significant about the united effort is the best practices they're borrowing from aws like small teams and moving fast but many others that we've listed here are on a super cloud journey just some of the folks we talked to at reinvent that are building clouds on top of clouds that are shown here cohesity building out a data management cloud focused on data protection and governance hashicorp announced its ipo at a 13 billion valuation building an it automation super cloud data bricks chaos search z-scaler z-scaler is building a security super cloud and many others that we spoke with at the event now we want to take a moment to talk about castles in the cloud it's a premise put forth by jerry chen and the team at greylock it's a really important piece of work that is building out a data set and categorizing the various cloud services to better understand where the cloud giants are investing where startups can participate and how companies can play in the castles that are being built that have been built by the hyperscalers and how they can cross the moats that have been dug and where innovation opportunities exist for other companies now frequently i'm challenged about our statements that there really are only four hyperscalers that exist in the world today aws microsoft google and alibaba while we recognize that companies like oracle have done a really excellent job of improving their clouds we don't consider companies like oracle ibm and other managed service providers as hyperscalers and one of the main data points that we use to defend our thinking is capex investment this was a point that was made in castles in the cloud there are many others that we look at elder kpi size of ecosystem partner acceleration enablement for partners feature sets etc but capex is a big one here's a chart from platform nomics a firm that is obsessed with cl with capex showing annual capex spend for five cloud companies amazon google microsoft ibm and oracle this data goes through 2019 it's annual spend and we've superimposed the direction for each of these companies amazon spent more than 40 billion dollars on capex in 2020 and will spend more than 50 billion this year sure there are some warehouses for the amazon retail business in there and there's other capital expenses in these numbers but the vast majority spent on building out its cloud infrastructure same with google and microsoft now oracle is at least increasing its cap x it's going to spend about 4 billion but it's de minimis compared to the cloud giants and ibm is headed in the other direction it's choosing to invest for instance 34 billion dollars in acquiring red hat instead of putting its capital into a cloud infrastructure look that's a very reasonable strategy but it underscores the gap okay another metric we look at is i as revenue here's an updated chart that we showed last month in our cloud update which at the time excluded alibaba's most recent quarter results so we've updated that very slight change it wasn't really material so you see the four hyperscalers and by the way they invested more than a hundred billion dollars in capex last year it's gonna be larger this year they'll collectively generate more than 120 billion dollars in revenue this year and they're growing at 41 collectively that is remarkable for such a large base of revenue and for aws the rate of revenue growth is accelerating it's the only hyperscaler that can say that that's unreal at their size i mean they're going to do more than 60 billion dollars in revenue this year okay so that's why we say there are only four hyperscalers but so what there are so many opportunities to build on top of the infrastructure that the three u.s giants especially are building as folks are really cautious about china at the moment so let's take a look at what some of the companies that we've been following are doing in the super cloud arena if you will this chart shows some etr data plotting net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share or presence in the etr data set on the horizontal axis most every name on the chart is building some type of super cloud but let me start as we often do calling out aws and azure i guess they're already super clouds but they're not building necessarily on top of of of other people's clouds and there are a little bit you know microsoft does some of that certainly google's doing some of that amazon really bringing its cloud to the edge at this point it's not participating in multi-cloud actively anyway aws and azure they stand alone as the cloud leaders and you can debate what's included in azure in our previous chart on revenue attempts to strip out the microsoft sas business but this is a customer view they see microsoft as a cloud leader which it is so that's why its presence on the horizontal axis and its momentum is is you know very large and very strong stronger than even in aws in this view even though it's is revenue that we showed earlier microsoft is significantly smaller but they both have strong momentum on the vertical axis as shown by that red horizontal line anything above that remember is considered considered elevated that 40 percent or above now google cloud it's well behind these two to we kind of put a red dotted line around it but look at snowflake that blue circle i mean i realize we repeat ourselves often but snowflake continues to hold a net score in the mid to high 70s it held 80 percent for a long time it's getting much much bigger it's so hard to hold that and in 165 mentions in the survey which you can see in the inserted table it continues to expand its market's presence on the horizontal axis now all the technology companies that we track of all of them we feel snowflake's vision and execution on its data cloud and that strategy is most is the most prominent example of a super cloud truly every tech company every company should be paying attention to snowflakes moves and carving out unique value propositions for their customers by standing on the shoulders of cloud giants as ceo ed walsh likes to say now on the left hand side of the chart you can see a number of companies that we spoke with that are in various stages of building out their super clouds data bricks dot spot data robots z z scalar mentioned hashi you see elastic confluent they're all above the forty percent line and somewhat below that line but still respectable we see vmware with tanzu cohesity rubric and veeam and many others that we didn't necessarily speak with directly at reinvent and or they don't show up in the etr dataset now we've also called out cisco dell hpe and ibm we didn't plot them because there's so much other data in there that's not apples to apple but we want to call them up because they all have different points of view and are two varying degrees building super clouds but to be honest these large companies are first protecting their respective on-prem turf you can't blame them those are very large install basis now they're all adding as a service offerings which is cloud-like i mean they're behind way behind trying to figure out you know things like billing and they don't nearly have the ecosystem but they're going to fight rightly they're going to fight hard and compete with their respective portfolios with their channels and their vastly improved simplicity but when you speak to customers at re invent and these are not just startups we're talking to we're talking about customers of these enterprise tech companies these customers want to build on aws they look at aws as cloud and that is the cloud that they want to write to now they want to connect they're on-prem but they're still largely different worlds when you when you talk to these customers now they'll fully admit they can't or won't move everything out of their data centers but the vast vast majority of the customers i spoke with last week at reinvent have much more momentum around moving towards aws they're not repatriating as everybody's talking about or not everybody but many are talking about and yeah there's some recency bias because we just got back but the numbers that we shared earlier don't lie the trend is very clear now these large firms that we mentioned these incumbents in the tech industry these big enterprise tech giants they're starting to move in the super cloud direction and they will have much more credibility around multi-cloud than the hyperscalers but my honest view is that aws's lead is actually accelerating the gap in my opinion is not closing now i want to come back and dig into super cloud a little bit more around 2010 and 2011 we collaborated with two individuals who really shaped our thinking in the big data space peter goldmaker was a cell side analyst at common at the time and abi abhishek meta was with bank of america and b of a was transforming its data operations and avi was was leading that now peter was you know an analyst sharp and less at the time he said you know it's going to be the buyers of big data technology and those that apply big data to their operations who would create the most value he used an example of sap he said look you you couldn't have chosen that sap was going to lead an erp but if you could have figured out who which companies were going to apply erp to their business you would have made a lot of money investing so that was kind of one of his investment theses now he posited that the companies that would apply the big data technology the buyers if you will would create far more value than the cloud errors or the hortonworks or a collection of other number of big data players and clearly he was right in that regard now abi mehta was an example of that and he posited that ecosystems would evolve within vertical industries around data kind of going back to frank slootman's premise that in putting data at the core and that would power the next generation of value creation via data machine learning and business transformation and he was right and that's what we're seeing with the rise of super cloud now after the after the first reinvent we published a post seen on the right hand side of this chart on wikibon about the making of a new gorilla aws and we said the way to compete would be to take an industry focus or one way to compete with take an industry focus and become best to breed within that industry and we aligned really with abbey meta's point of view that industry ecosystems would evolve around data and offer opportunities for non-hyperscalers to compete now what we didn't predict at the time but are now seeing clearly emerge is that these super clouds are going to be built on top of aws and other hyperscale clouds makes sense goldman's financial cloud for data is taking a page out of aws it's pointing its proprietary data algorithms tools and processes at its clients just like amazon did with its technology and it's making these assets available as a service on top of the aws cloud a super cloud for financial services if you will they are relying on aws for infrastructure compute storage networking security and other services like sagemaker to power that super cloud but they're bringing their own ip to the table nasdaq and dish similarly bringing forth their unique value and as i said as i said earlier united airlines will in our view eventually evolve from migrating its apps portfolio to the cloud to building out a super cloud for travel what about your logo what's your super cloud strategy i'm sure you've been thinking about it or perhaps you're already well down the road i'd love to hear how you're doing it and if you see the trends the same or differently as we do okay that's it for now don't forget these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen all you do is search breaking analysis podcast you definitely want to check out etr's website at etr.plus for all the survey data remember we publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com you can email me if you want to get in touch with david.velante at siliconangle.com you can dm me at devolante on twitter you can comment on our linkedin posts this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr have a great week stay safe be well and we'll see you next time [Music] you

(upbeat music) >> Thanks Adam from the studio. Dave, with the next interview, I had a great chance to sit down with Pete, from Microsoft Azure. Talk about 5G and all the advances in the innovation around Silicon and what's coming around under the hood. Obviously Microsoft big hyperscaler, top three cloud player. Let's hear from Pete my conversation and we'll come right back. (upbeat music) Well, we'll come back to the cubes coverage of Mobile World Congress 2021, we're onsite in-person and virtual. It's a hybrid event this year. It's in-person for the first time, since the winter of 2019 lots been passed, a lot's happened and theCube's got to cover it. Our next guest is Pete Bernard, senior director, Silicon and telecom at Azure edge devices, platform and services at Microsoft. Pete, thanks for coming on theCube for our remote coverage. Thanks for coming on. We'll be there live and as well as with the remote community. Thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, no, that's great to be here. I'm coming here from sunny Bellevue, Washington. I wish a wish I was going to be in Barcelona this year, but like, as you mentioned, I think the last time I was in Barcelona was 2019. So a lot has happened since then. Right? >> Well, let's get into it. First of all, we'll see you on the interwebs and the community, but let, let's get the content storyline after the number one story at mobile world. Congress is the rise of the modern developer overlay on top of this new infrastructure, 5g, what is the edge, super edge, AI edge, whatever we want to call it. It is an enabler. Okay. And it's also leveraging the assets of, of these telecom infrastructures and certainly the pandemic we've had great success, nothing crashed. It saved us. So what's your, what's your view on this? This is the big story. It's the most important story? What's your take? >> Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned, a lot has happened and there's been a lot of advancements in this area and I think, you know, the part of what's happened with the pandemic is companies have really accelerated their strategies in this area. In terms of, you know, we have tons of commercial customers that are trying to solve really difficult problems using AI and edge and, and 5g now. So the demand is tremendous and the technology has really advanced quite a bit. And you know, we're, my team is specifically focused on sort of the intersection of 5g edge and AI, and it's sort of bringing together these kinds of existing credible technology advances and it's unlocking some amazing new scenarios and business models for, for customers and partners. For sure. >> So let's get it under the hood a little bit and talk about some of the technical issues. Obviously 5g is enabling a lot of commercial benefits cloud providers like Microsoft Azure is having great edge capabilities now with, with bringing the cloud to the edge, which opens up the obvious gamers Mehta versus AI, AR VR kind of things, low latency, applications, cars, and all that good stuff, all the data coming in and then new use cases. So it's a data problem. It's a typology challenge. It's a new architecture, unpack that for us. What, where are we in this? So. >> So I mean, as you mentioned, I mean, it was kind of an infinite set of problems to be solved. And one of the things that we found was that there was actually a lot of friction out there. It's almost like so many different partners and typologies and ways to put things together. Quite often, we get with a commercial customer and they're like, look, we just need to solve this particular problem in retail or healthcare energy. And so one of the things that we introduced as part of our kind of Azure portfolio is something called Azure percept, which is an end to end system for edge AI development and deployment that now works over 5g and L PWA as well. And so a lot of what we're trying to do as a platform company is help customers and partners kind of expedite and speed that development and deployment of solutions. Because like I said, there's no shortage of demand, but they're quite complex. And as you mentioned, you could have, you know, on-prem solutions, you could have hybrid solutions that talk to on-prem hardware and then go to the cloud. You can go direct to the cloud. But the question is like, how do you put these things together in a secure way? And it get an ROI quickly out of your edge AI deployments. And that's been kind of an interesting challenge. And I think when I talked to a lot of partners, telco partners, especially Silicon partners, were all struggling with how do we expedite, expedite? Because you know, the sooner we can get people to deploy and solve their problems, obviously, you know, the sooner they're happy, the sooner we all get paid. Right? And so that's one of the things we have to be careful of is with all the new technology, how do we really sort of titrate down to, you know, what does it take to actually get things from a POC to deployment as quickly as possible? >> And one of the big things is happening is not seeing the developer ecosystem is coming hardcore into the telco cloud, whatever you want to call it. And it's interesting, you know, the word operators is used a lot, the carriers, the operators, you don't hear that in it and say, you don't say that's the operator, the operators writes it department. So you have cloud native and this operating cultures coming together, dev ops dev sec ops coming to what is a carrier grade operating model, which is like a steady build solid foundation. That's what they expect. So you kind of have this classic OT it collision. And this has been talked about in the edge. What's different though, because now you've got to move faster. You got to have a lot of it like cloud scale with automation and AI at the same time I need full Bulletproof operations. Yeah. >> And so it's, you know, we're trying to expose a consistent developer fabric, you know, to our community. I mean, Microsoft's got millions of developers around the world using lots of, lots of tool, tool chains, and frameworks. And we want to sort of harness the power of that whole developer community to bring workloads and applications onto the telco network, right. In, in environments that they're familiar with. And we're seeing also sort of, you mentioned sort of colliding worlds in the edge world. There's kind of traditional embedded developers that are building cameras and devices and gateways. And then there's a lot of data science, AI developers as well. And what we're trying to do is sort of help both communities sort of learn these skills so that, you know, you have developers that are enabled to do, you know, AI workloads and scenarios and all of the business logic around those things and develop it in an environment, whether it's cloud-based or edge based that they're familiar with. And, you know, so therefore a lot of the complexities of the teleco network itself get sort of obfuscated or abstracted for them. So the developer doesn't have to become a telco expert, right. To build a 5g based camera system for their retail stores. Right. And so that's, that's exciting when we start to merge some of these communities together. >> Yeah. So what would be your message to the operators this year? I mean, obviously the edge is not something you need to educate people on, but they are trying to figure out how to, you know, swap the engine of the airplane out at 35,000 feet, as I say, they got, they want to innovate and this year what's your message. Yeah. >> I mean, there's kind of two things going on. One is yes. I think we're, we are deeply involved helping telcos Cloudify their network and take advantage of 5g and virtualization. And, you know, we have recent acquisitions as a metal switching affirmed and hold that whole thing. So that's, that's that chunk of work that's ongoing. I think the other thing that's happening is really thinking about telcos. We're seeing as a hunger for solutions. And so telcos thinking of themselves as solution providers, not just connectivity providers and, you know, getting into that mindset of saying, we're going to come in and work with this city or this, you know, big retailer and we're going to help solve the problems for them. And we love working with partners like that, that are actually delivering solutions as opposed to pieces of technology. >> What solutions do you think Pete are showing the most promise for helping the telco industry digitally transformed? >> Well, I think on the NGI space, there's a couple of big verticals. I mean, you know, obviously places like agriculture are huge, you know, where you need a wide deployments. We're seeing a lot of areas in around retail, you know, retail environments when I would have leveraged like low latency 5g. One of the pieces of feedback we heard was a lot of retailers actually want less hardware in their physical store and they want to leverage 5g more to get back to the cloud. And then we're seeing, you know, energy sectors, you know, and mining and other kind of difficult to reach areas where you can leverage ciliary networks. So a lot of these verticals are, you know, turning onto the fact that they could get some of their conductivity and edge AI solutions combined together and do some amazing things. >> Right. You just made me think of a question while I got you. I got to ask this because you know, you've brought up 5g and back haul, you know, and people in the, in this business always know backhaul is always the problem. We all know we've been to a concert or a game where we've got multiple bars on wifi, but nothing's loading. Right. So we all know, right. We've seen that that's back haul. That's a choke point. If 5g is going to give me more back haul to essentially another exchange, how has the core of the internet evolved? Because as I started poking around and research and there's more direct connects now, there's not many exchanges. It used to be, we had my west and my east, those are now gone. I'm like, what's going on in the backbone? Does that simple? Is it better or worse? Is that still a good thing? >> Well, yeah. One of the exciting things around kind of the virtualization of what's going on with networking is that we're able to partner with telcos to sort of extend the Azure footprint to help with some of those congestion points, right? So we can, we can bring heavy edge equipment, pretty darn close to where the action is, and actually have direct connections into teleco networks to help them sort of expand their footprint, you know, even farther out to the edge and they can leverage our hyperscaler to, to do that. So that that's a benefit of one of the architectural improvements of 5G around virtualization. >> That's awesome. And I'm looking forward to following up on that great point. And I think it's, it sells a digital divide problem. That's been going on for over a decade, 15, 20 years, this digital divide. Now you got city revitalizations going on. You have, I mean, just the, just the, the digital revitalization in global communities is everywhere. And I think, I think this is going to be an influx point. That's not yet written about in the press now, but I think it's going to be very clear. So, so with all that, I got to ask you the importance of how you guys see an ecosystem for this transformation, because it used to be the telcos ruled the world, and now it's not going that way. They still have a footprint. I mean, everyone, the rising tide helps everybody, as they say, what's the importance of a strong ecosystem in order to drive this nutrient? >> Well, you know, it's definitely a team sport. It's definitely a team sport. And, and you know, Microsoft's been a big partner company for decades, and I think it's something like $8, a part of revenue for every dollar of revenue from the Microsoft generate. So we're heavily invested in our device, builder partners, our telco partners, the ISV community. And, you know, I think what we're trying to do is work with telcos to sort of bring those communities together, to solve these kinds of problems that customers are having. So yeah, it's definitely a team sport. And like I said, the new entrance with some really innovative software platforms, it's an opportunity for telcos, I think, to sort of reinvent and to kind of rethink about how they want to be more agile and more competitive. Again, this will be businesses. >> Okay, great. And have you on, I got it. I got ask you, we've talked about the most important story, obviously 5g edge in AI. I think you nailed it. You're you're in this cross hairs of probably one of the most exciting areas in the tech industry as distributed computing goes that last mile, so to speak pun intended, what, but what's, in your opinion, the most important story that not many people are talking about that should be talking about, what do you think is something that's being written about, but to talk about, but it's super important that that needs to be true. >> Well, you know, it's interesting. I mean, a lot of the marketing and talk about 5g is around phones, people talking about their speed on phones. And I think we're finally getting past the discussion of 5g on phones and talking about 5g for like more MTM communications and more, more kind of connecting really trillions of things together. And then that enabled me to is going to be a big, big deal moving forward. And I think that's, we'll start to see probably more coverage of that moving forward. We're on the inside of the industry. So we kind of know it, but I think on the outside of the industry, when people think 5g, they still think phones. And then hopefully that becomes, there's more of a story around all the other pieces being connected with 5g. >> Yeah. And I got to ask you about two quick things before we go open source, openness, interoperability, and security. What, how would you, what's your opinion on those two pillars? >> So I think security is kind of foundational for what we're we've been doing at Microsoft for a long time, whether it's Azure sphere that we're doing for end to end, you know, edge security or any of our security offerings that we have from services perspective. So we're trying to like with Azure percept, we actually build in like TPM encryption of AI models from edge to cloud, as an example of that. So security really is foundational to all of the stuff that we need to do. It cannot be something that you do later or add on it has to be designed in. And I think from an open source perspective, I mean, whether it's our, you know, stewardship of GitHub or the involvement in open source communities, you know, we're, we're totally excited about all the innovation that's happening there and you know, you got to let people participate. And in fact, one of the cool things that's been happening is the amount of developer reach in areas where maybe there isn't, you know, like we've had our build conferences and other Microsoft events. It enables everyone to participate virtually no matter where they are in the world, even if they can't get a ticket to Redmond Washington, and you can still be part of the developer community and learn online and be part of that. >> I think this whole embed developer market's going to come back in and massive volumes of new people as Silicon becomes important. And of course, I can't leave you without asking the Silicon angle question for our team. Silicon is becoming a competitive advantage for whether it's acceleration, offload and or core things, whether it's instance related or use case related, what's the future of Silicon and the telecom and cloud in general. >> For mine. Yeah. So I mean, the advances happening in the Silicon space are fantastic. Whether it's like process advances down to like five nanometers and below. So you're talking about, you know, much lower power consumption, much higher density, you know, packaging and, you know, AI acceleration built in as well as all these other, you know, containerized security things. So that's being driven by a lot by consumer markets, right? So more powerful PCs and phones. And that's also translating into the cloud and for some of the heavy infrastructure. So the leaps and bounds we're seeing even between now and the last MWC in person in 2019 in Silicon has been amazing. And that's going to unblock, you know, all kinds of workloads that could be done at the edge as well as incredible high-performance stuff to be done in the cloud. That's pretty exciting. >> Peter Love that word unblocked, because I think it's going to unblock them that big, you know, rock in the river. It's holding the water back. I think it's going to unleash creativity, innovation, computer science engineering down from Silicon to the modern application developer. Amazing opportunity. I think the edge is going to be the, an awesome area to innovate on. Thanks for coming on the cube. >> Sounds good. Thanks for having me. >> People in our senior director, silica telecom as your edge devices for platform services at Microsoft, a lot going on big cloud player, hyperscaler at the edge. This is the final area. In my opinion, that's called the accident habits going to be great innovation. It's part of the cloud cloud is creating massive change in telecom. We've got to cover here in the queue. Thanks for watching. Okay, Dave, that was a great interview with Pete Bernard, senior director, Silicon telecom, Azure edge devices, platform, and services. Microsoft's got all those long titles in the, in the thing, but Silicon is a key thing. You heard my interview wide ranging conversation, obviously with that kind of pedigree and expertise. He's pretty strong, but he, at the end there a little gym on the Silicon. Yeah. Okay. Because that is going to be a power source. You you've been reporting on this. You've been doing a lot of breaking analysis. Microsoft's a hyperscaler they're they're the second player in cloud, Amazon. Number one, Microsoft number two, Google number three, Microsoft. They didn't really say anything. They have something Amazon has got grab a ton, but big directional signal shift there. >> Well, I think it was interesting. It was a great interview by the way, and the things that struck me pizza, and they're focused on the intersection of 5g edge and AI. So AI is all about data-driven workloads. If you look at AI today, most of the AI in the enterprise is done in the cloud and it's modeling, but the future of AI is going to be inferencing at the edge in real time. That's where the real expenses today. And that's where you need new computing architectures. And you're right. I've written about this one of my last breaking analysis on AWS, a secret weapon, and that secret weapon is a new computing architecture. That's not based on traditional x86 architectures. It's based on their own design, but based on arm, because arm is higher performance, lower cost, better price, performance, and way cheaper. And so I guarantee you based on what you just said that, well, Amazon clearly has set the direction with nitro and graviton and, and, and, you know, gravitate on to Microsoft is I think following that playbook. And it's interesting that Pete has Silicon in his title and telecom and an edge they're going after that because it doesn't require new low powered architectures that are going to blow away anything we've ever seen on x86. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that's a killer point. You and I have been covering the enterprise, the old guard rack and stack the boxes. Amazon was early on that clearly winning low power, high density looks like a consumer, like feel in cloud scale, changes the game on economics. And then he also teased out if you squint, there's a lot of stuff to decode. We're going to unpack that video and write probably six or five blog posts there, but he said, 5g is going to change the direct connect. They're already doing it. Microsoft's putting that to the edge, that right in the same playbook as AWS, right on the almost right on the number, put the edge, make it powerful, direct connects connectivity. >> We've seen this before. The consumer piece is key. The consumer leads, we know this and the consumer apple is leading in things like AI and, and Tesla is leading at the edge. That's where you have to look for the innovation. That's going to trickle into the enterprise. And so in the cloud guys, I kicked the hyperscale. You and Sergeant Joe Hall talked about this at the startup showcase that we did was that the cloud guys, the hyperscalers, and a really strong position for the edge. >> I got to tell you, we are on this go to the siliconangle.com. Obviously that's our website, the cube.net. We are reporting on this. It's very nuanced point. But if you look at the cloud players, you can see the telco digital revolution telco. Dr. Is a digital revolution back to you, Adam, in the studio for more coverage, we'll be back at the desk shortly.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hello and welcome back to the Cube Coverage of eight of us reinvent 2020 Virtual. I'm John for your host of the Cube. Normally we're in person this year. It's a virtual event. It is reinvent and cube virtual here. We got great interview here. Segment with VM ware and A W s. Two great guests. Keep both Cube alumni. Marc Lemire, senior vice president, general manager, The Cloud Services Business Unit VM Ware and Dave Brown, Vice president Elastic Compute Cloud easy to from Amazon Web services Gentlemen, great to see you guys. Thanks for coming on. >>Great. Thank you. Good to be back. >>Thanks. Great to be back. >>So you know, Dave, we love having you on because ec2 obviously is the core building block of a device. Once the power engine, it's the core product. And Mark, we were just talking a few months ago at VM World of momentum you guys have had on the business front. It's even mawr accelerated with co vid on the pandemic. Give us the update The partnership three years ago when Pat and Andy in San Francisco announced the partnership has been nothing but performance. Business performance, technical integration. Ah, lots happened. What's the update here for reinvent? >>Yeah, I guess the first thing I would say is look, you know, the partnership has has never been stronger. You know, as you said, uh, we announced the partnership and delivered the initial service three years ago. And I think since then, both companies have really been focused on innovating rapidly on behalf of our customers bringing together the best of the VM, or portfolio, and the best of, you know, the entire AWS. A set of capabilities. And so we've been incredibly pleased to be able to deliver those that value to our joint customers. And we look forward to continue to work very closely together. You know, across all aspects of our two companies toe continue to deliver more and more value to our joint customers. >>Well, I want to congratulate you guys at VM where, you know, we've been following that story from day one. I let a lot of people skeptical on the partnership. We were pretty bullish on it. We saw the value. It's been just been great Synergy day. I want to get your thoughts because, you know, I've always been riffing about enabling technologies and and the way it works is enabling technologies. Allow your partners to make more money, too. Right? So you guys do that with the C two, and I know that for a fact because we're doing well with our virtual event cloud, but are easy to bills are up, but who cares? We're doing well. This is the trend you guys are enabling partners, and VM Ware in particular, has a lot of customers that are on AWS. What's your perspective on all this? >>You know the part. The part maker system is so important for us, right? And we get from our customers. We have many customers who, you know, use VM ware in their own environment. They've been using it for years and years, um, true for many other software applications as well and other technologies. Andi, when they moved to AWS there very often. When you use those tools on those services on AWS is well and so you know, we we partner with many, many, many, many companies, and so it's a high priority for us. The VM Ware partnership, I think, is being sort of role model for us in terms of, you know, sitting out outside Sana goal back in 2016. I think it waas and, you know, delivering on that. Then continue to innovate on features over the last three years listening to our customers, bringing larger customers on board, giving them more advanced networking features, improving. You know that the instance types of being whereas utilizing to deliver value to their customers and most recently, obviously, with Outpost AWS outposts and parking with VM ware on VM are enabled outposts and bringing that to our customers and their own data centers. So we see the whole partner ecosystem is critically important. Way were spent a lot of time with VM and other partners on something that our customers really value. >>Mark, I want to get your thoughts on this because I was just riffing with Day Volonte about this. Um, heightened awareness with that covert 19 in the pandemic has kind of created, which is an accelerant of the value. And one >>of the >>things that's a parent is when you have this software driven and software defined kind of environment, whether it's in space or on premise or in the cloud. Um, it's the software that's driving everything, but you have to kind of components. You have the how do you operate something, And then how does the software works? So you know, it's the hand in the glove operators and software in the cloud really is becoming kind of the key things. You guys have been very successful as a company with I t operations, and now you're moving into the cloud. Can you share your thoughts on how VM Ware cloud on AWS takes that next level for your customers? So I think that's a key point that needs to be called that. What's your What's your thoughts on that? >>Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head, and I think, you know, look, every company is on a journey to transform the level of capability they're able to offer to their customers and their employees, right? And a big part of that is how do they modernize their application environment? How do they how do they deliver new applications and services? And so this has been underway for for a while now. But if if anything, I think Cove, it has only accelerated. Um, the need for customers to be able to continue to go down that path. And so, you know, between VM ware in AWS, um, you know, we're looking to provide those customers a platform that allows them to accelerate their path to application, modernization and new services and capabilities. And, um, you know, Dave talked about the ecosystem and the importance of the ecosystem that AWS and I think you know, together. What we've been able to do if you sort of think about it, is, you know, bringing together this rich set of VM Ware services and capabilities. Um, that we've talked about before, as well as new VM Ware capabilities, for example, the ability to enable kubernetes based applications and services on top of this Corby, um or platform with Tan Xue. Right. So customers can get access to all of that is they go down this modernization path. But, you know, right next door in the same ese is 375 native AWS services that they can use together in conjunction, uh, with that environment. And so if you think about accelerating that journey right Being ableto rapidly migrate those VM ware based workloads into the AWS cloud. When you're in the AWS cloud, be able to modernize that environment using the VM Ware Tansu capability, the native AWS services and then the infrastructure that needs to come together to make that possible, for example, the network connectivity that needs to be enabled, um, to take advantage of some of those services together. Um, you know, we're really we're trying to accelerate our delivery of those capabilities so that we can help our customers accelerate the delivery of that application value thio to their customers. >>David want to get your thoughts on the trends If you speak to the customers out there at VM Ware, customers that are on the cloud because you know the sphere, for instance, very popular on the Ws Cloud with VM Ware Cloud as well as these new modern application trends like Tan Xue, Project Monterey is coming around the corner that was announced that VM world what trends do you see from the two perspective that you could share to the VM ware eight of his customers? What's the key wave right now that they should be riding on. >>Yeah, I think a few things, you know, we definitely are seeing an acceleration in customers Looking Thio looking to utilize humor on AWS You know, there was a lot of interest early on, really, over the last year, I think we've seen 140% growth in the service, which has been incredibly exciting for both of us and really shows that we we're providing customers with the service that works. You know, I think one of the key things that Mark called out just talking previously was just how simple it is for customers to move. You know, often moving to the cloud gets muddled with modernization, and it takes a long time because customers to kind of think about how do they actually make this move? Or are they stuck within their own facility on data center or they need to modernize? We moved to a different hyper visor with PM on AWS. You literally get that same environment on AWS, and so whether it's a a migration because you want to move out of your on premise facility, whether it's a migration because you want to grow and expand your facility without needing to. You know, build more data centers yourself Whether you're looking to build a d. R site on AWS on whether you looking just, you know, maybe build a new applications tank that you wanna build in a modern way, you know, using PMR in Tanzania and all the AWS services, all of those a positive we're seeing from customers. Um, you know, I think I think as the customers grow, the demand for features on being were in AWS grows as well. And we put out a number of important features to support customers that really, really large scale. And that's something that's being exciting. It's just some of the scale that we're seeing from very, very large being, we customers moving over to AWS. And so I think you know a key messages. If you have a Vienna installation today and you're thinking about moving to the cloud, it's really a little that needs to stop you in starting to move. It is is very simple to set up, and very little you have to do to your application stack to actually move it over. >>Mark, that's a great point. I want to get your thoughts on that in reaction toe. What? Dave just said Because this is kind of what you guys had said many years ago and also a VM world when we were chatting, disrupting operations just to stand up the clubs shouldn't be in place. It should be easy on you. Heard what Dave said. It's like you got >>a >>lot of cultures that are operating large infrastructure and they want to move to the cloud. But they got a mandate toe make everything. Is a services more cloud native coming. So, yeah, you gotta check off the VM where boxes and keep things running. But you gotta add more modern tooling mawr application pressure there. So there's a lot of pressure from the business units and the business models to say We gotta take advantage of the modern applications. How do you How do you look at that? >>Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think Look, making this a simple is possible is obviously a really important aspect of what we're trying Thio enable for our customers. Also, I think the speed is important, right? How you know, how can we enable them? Thio accelerate their ability to move to the cloud, but then also accelerate their ability Thio, um, deliver new services and capabilities that will differentiate their business. And then how do we, uh, kind of take some of the heavy lifting off the customers plate in terms of what it actually takes to operate and run the infrastructure and do so in a highly available way that they could depend upon for their business? And of course, delivering that full capabilities of service is a big part of that. You know, one of my when my favorite customer examples eyes a company called Stage Coach, uh, European based transportation company. And they run a network of Busses and trains, etcetera, and they actually decided to use VM. Tosto run one of their most mission critical applications, which is involved with basically scheduling, scheduling those systems right in the people that they know, the bus drivers in the train conductors etcetera. And so if you think about that application right, its's a mission critical application for them. It's also one that they need to be able to iterate involved and improve very quickly, and they were able to take advantage of a number of fairly unique capabilities of the joint service we built together to make that possible. Um, you know, the first thing that they did is they took advantage of something called stretch clusters. The M we're cloud on AWS stretch clusters Where, uh, we basically take that VM Ware environment and we stretch it. We stretch the network across to aws availability zones in the same region, Onda. Then they could basically run their applications on top of that that environment. And this is a really powerful capability because it ensures the highest levels of s L. A. For that application for four nines. In this case, if anything happens, Thio fail in one of those, uh, Aziz, we can automatically fail over and restart the application in the second ese on DSO provides this high level of availability, but they're also able to take advantage of that without on day one. Talk about keeping it simple without on day one, requiring any changes to the application of myself because that application knew how to work in the sphere. And so you know that I work in the sphere in the cloud and it can fail over on the sphere in the cloud on dso they were able to get there quickly. They're able Thio enable that application and now they're taking the next step. Which is how do I enhance and make that application even better, you know, leveraging some of the VM or capabilities also looking to take advantage of some of the native AWS capabilities. So I think that sort of speed, um you know that simplicity that helps helps customers down that path to delivering more value to their employees and their customers. That and we're really excited that were ableto offer that your customers >>just love the philosophy that both companies work back from the customer customer driven kind of mentality certainly key here to this partnership, and you can see the performance. But I think one of the differentiations that I love is that join integration thing engineering that you guys were doing together. I think that's a super valuable, differentiated VM where Dave, this is a key part of the relationship. You know, when I talked to Pat Gelsinger and and again back three years ago and he had Raghu from VM, Ware was like, This is different engineering together. What's your perspective from the West side when someone says, Yeah. Is that Riel? You know, it is easy to really kind of tied in there and his Amazon really doing joint engineering. What do you say to that? >>Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's very real. I mean, it's been an incredible, incredible journey together, Right? Right, Right from the start, we were trying to work out how to do this back in 2016. You know, we were using some very new technology back then that we hadn't honestly released yet. Uh, the nitrous system, right? We started working with family and the nitrous system back in late 2016, and we only launched our first nitrous system enabled instance that reinvent 2017. And so we were, you know, for a year having being a run on the nitrous system, internally making sure that, you know, we would support their application and that VM Ware ran well on BC around. Well, on aws on, that's been ongoing. And, you know, the other thing I really enjoy about the relationship is learning how to best support each other's customers on on AWS and being where, and Mark is talking about stretch clusters and are being whereas, you know, utilizing the availability zones. We've done other things in terms of optimizing placement with across, you know, physical reaction in data centers. You know, Mark and the team have put forward requirements around, you know, different instance types and how they should perform invest in the Beamer environment. We've taken that back into our instance type definition and what we've released there. So it happens in a very, very low level. And I think it's both teams working together frequently, lots of meetings and then, you know, pushing each other. You know, honestly. And I think for the best experience or at the end of the day, for our joint customers. So it's been a great relationship. >>It helps when both companies are very fluent technically and pushing the envelope with technology. Both cultures, I know personally, are very strong technically, but they also customer centric. Uhm, Mark, I gotta put you on the spot on this question because this comes up every year this year more than ever. Um, is the question around VM ware on A W S and VM ware in general, and it's more of a general industry theme. But I wanna ask you because I think it relates to the US Um vm ware cloud on aws. Um, the number one question we get is how can I automate my I t operations? Because it's kind of a no brainer. Now it's kind of the genes out of the bottle. That's a mandate. But it's not always easy. Easy as it sounds to dio, you still got a lot to dio. Automation gets you level set to take advantage of some of these higher level services, and all customers want to get there fast. Ai i o t a lot of goodness in the cloud that you kinda gotta get there through kinda automating the based up first. So how did how are your customers? How are you guys helping customers automate their infrastructure operations? >>Yeah, I mean, Askew articulated right? This is a huge demand. The requirement from our customer base, right? Uh, long gone are the days that you wanna manually go into a u I and click around here, click there to make things happen, right? And so, um, you know, obviously, in addition to the core benefit of hey, we're delivering this whole thing is a service, and you don't have to worry about the hardware, the software, the life cycle all of that, Um you know, at a higher level of the stack, we're doing a lot of work to basically expose a very rich set of AP eyes. We actually have enabled that through something called the VM, or Cloud Developer center, where you can go and customer could go and understand all of the a p i s that we make available to that they can use to build on top of to effectively automated orchestrate their entire VM or cloud on AWS based infrastructure. And so that's an area we've we've invested a lot in. And at the end of the day, you know we want Thio. Both enable our customers to take their existing automation tooling that they might have been using on their VM ware based environment in their own data center. Obviously, all of that should continue to work is they bring that into the emcee aws. Um but now, once we're in AWS and we're delivering, this is a service in AWS. There's actually a higher level of automation, um that we can enable, and so you know everything that you can do through the VM or cloud console. Um, you can do through a P. I s So we've exposed roughly a piece that allow you to add or remove instance capacity ap eyes that allow you to configure the network FBI's that allow you toe effectively. Um, automate all aspects of sort of how you want Thio configure and pull together that infrastructure. Onda. You know, as Dave said, a lot of this, you know, came from some of those early just customer discussions where that was a very, very clear expectations. So, you know, we've we've been working hard. Thio make that possible. >>So can customers integrate native Cloud native technologies from AWS into APS running on VM ware cloud on any of us? >>Yeah. I mean, I'll give you one example for so we you know, we've been able to support for cloud formation right on top of the M C. Mehta best. And so that's, you know, one way that you can leverage these 80 best tools on top of on top of the m. C at best. Um and you know, as we talked about before, uh, you know everything on the VM ware in the VM ware service. We're exposing through those AP eyes. And then, of course, everything it best does has been built that way from the start. And so customers can work. Um, you know, seamlessly across those two environments. >>Great stuff. Great update. Final question for both of you. Uh, Dave will start with you. What's the unique advantages? When you people watching? That's gonna say, OK, I get it. I see the momentum. I've now got a thing about post pandemic growth strategies. I gotta fund the projects, so I'm either gonna retool while I'm waiting for the world to open up. Two. I got a tail wind. This is good for my business. I'm gonna take advantage of this. How do they modernize our application? What? The unique things with VM Ware Cloud on AWS. What's unique? What would you say? I >>mean, I think the big thing for me eyes the consistency, um, the other way that were built This between the the sphere on prime environment and the the sphere that you get on aws with BMC on aws. Um you know, when I think about modernization and honestly, any project that I do, we do it Amazon I don't like projects that required enormous amount of planning and then tooling. And then, you know, you've this massive waterfall stock project before you do anything meaningful. And what's so great about what we built here is you can start that migration almost immediately, start bringing a few applications over. And when you do that, you can start saying, Okay, where do we want to make improvements? But just by moving over to aws NBN were on AWS, you start to reap the benefits of being in the child right from day one. Many of the things Mark called out about infrastructure management and that sort of thing. But then you get to modernize off to that as well. And so just the richness in terms of, you know, being where a tan xue and then the you know, I think it's more than 200 AWS services. Now you get to bring all that into your application stack, but at a time at a at a at a cadence or time that really matters to you. But you could get going immediately, and I think that's the thing that customers ready need to do if you find yourself in a situation you know, with just how much the world's changed in the last year. Looking Thio. Modernize your applications deck, Looking for the cost benefits. Looking to maybe get out of the data center. Um, it's a relatively easy both forward and just put in a couple of engineers a couple of technicians on to actually starting to do the process. I think you'll be very surprised at how much progress you can actually make in a short amount of time. >>Mark, you're in charge of the Cloud Services business unit at VM Ware CPM. Where cloud on AWS successful more to do a lot of action kubernetes cloud native automation and the list goes on and on. What are the most unique advantages that you guys have? What would you say? >>Yeah, I mean, I would maybe just build on Dave's comments a bit. I think you know, if you look at it through the customer lens three ability to reiterate and the ability to move quickly and not being forced into sort of a one size fits all model, right? And so there may be certain applications that they run into VM, and they want to run into VM forever. Great. We could enable that there might be other applications that they want to move from a VM into a container, remove into kubernetes and do that in a very seamless way. And we can enable that with, uh, with Tan Xue, right? By the way, they may wanna actually many applications. They're gonna require, uh, complex composite applications that have some aspects of it running in communities, other aspects running on VMS. You know, other aspects connecting to some native AWS services. And so, you know, we could enable those types of, you know, incremental value that's delivered very, very quickly that allows them at the end of the day to move, move fast on behalf of their own customers and deliver more about it to them. So I think this this sort of philosophy, right that Dave talked about I think is is one of the really important things we've tried to focus on, um, together. But, you know, on behalf of our joint customers and you know that that sort of capabilities just gets richer and richer. Overtime right. Both of us are continuing to innovate, and both of us will continue to think about how we bring those services together as we innovate in our respective areas and how they need to link together as part of this This intense solution. Um, so, uh, you know that I think that you're gonna see us continue to invest, continue to move quickly. Um, continue to respond to what our customers together are asking us. Thio enable for them. >>Well, really appreciate the insight. Thanks for coming on this cube virtual, um, segment. Um, virtualization has hit the cube where we have multiple virtual stages out there at reinvent on the site. Obviously, it's a virtual event over three weeks, so it's a little bit not four days or three days. It's three weeks. So, um, if you're watching this, check out the site. Tons of good V o D. The executive leaderships Check out the keynotes that air there. It's awesome. Big news. Of course. Check out the cube coverage, but I have one final final question is you guys are leaders in the industry and within your companies, and we're virtual this year. You gotta manage your teams. You still gotta go to work every day. You gotta operate your business is a swell as work with customers. What have you guys learned? And can you share any, um, advice or observations of how to be effective as a leader, a za manager, and as a customer interface point for your companies? >>Well, I I think, uh, let me go first, then Mark Mark and had some things, you know, I think we're moving to certainly in the last year, specifically with covert. You know, we've we've we've just passed out. I think we just passed out seven months off, being remote now on, obviously doing reinvent as well. Um, it zits certainly taken some adjusting. I think we've done relatively well, um, with, you know, going virtual. We were well prepared at Amazon to go virtual, but from a leadership point of view, you know, making sure that you have been some positives, right? So for one, I have I have teams all over the world, and, uh, being virtually actually helped a lot with that. You know, everybody is virtually all on the same stage. It's not like we have a group of us in Seattle and a few others scattered around the world. Everybody's on the same cold now. on that has the same you know, be able to listen to in the same way. But I better think a lot about sort of just my own time. Personally, in the time that my team spends, I think it's been very easy for us. Thio run a little too hot waken start a little too early and run a little too late in the evenings on DSO, making sure that we protect that time. And then, obviously, from a customer point of view, you know, we found that customers are very willing to engage virtually as well around the world s Oh, that's something we've been able to utilize very well to continue to have. You know what we call our executive briefing center and do those sorts of things customer meetings on in some ways. You know, without the plane trip on either side to the other side of the world, you're able to do more of those and stay even more in contact with your customers. So it's been it's been a lot of adjustment for us. I think we've done well. I think you know, a zay said. We've had a look at Are we keeping it balanced because I think it's very easy to get out of balance and just from a time point of view. But I think I'm sure it'll show. It'll change again as the world goes back to normal. But in many ways, I think we've learned a lot of valuable lessons that I hope in some cases don't go away. I think well will probably be more virtual going forward. So that's what a bit of from my side >>creating. Yeah. Confronting hot people run hard. You can, you know, miss misfire on that and burnout gonna stay, Stay tuned. Mark your thoughts. Is leader customers defeating employees? Customers? >>Yeah. I mean, in many ways, I would say similar experience. I think, uh, I mean, if you sort of think back, right, uh, it's in many ways amazing that within the course of literally a week, right, I think about some of the BMR experience we went from, uh, you know, 90 95% of our employees, at least in the US, working in an office right to immediately all working from home. And, uh, you know, I think having the technology is available to make that possible and really? For the most part, without skipping a beat. Um, it is pretty pretty amazing, right? Um and then, you know, I think from a productivity perspective, in many ways, you know, it z increased productivity. Right? Um, they have mentioned the ability engage customers much more easily you think about in the past, you would have taken a flight to Europe to maybe meet with, you know, 5 to 10 customers and spent an entire week. And now you can do that in, you know, in the morning, right? Um, and the way we sort of engaged our teams, I think in many ways, um, sort of online, uh, can create a very, very rich experience, right? In a way to bring people together across many locations in a much more seamless way than if maybe part of the team is there in the office. And some other part of the team is trying toe connect in through resume or something else. A little bit of a fragmented experience. But if everyone's on the same platform, regardless of where you are e think we've seen some benefits from that. >>It's interesting. You see virtualization. What that did to the servers created cloud, you know. Hey, Productivity. >>You also have to be careful. You don't run those servers too hot. You >>gotta have a cooling. You got the cooling Eso I You know, this is really an interesting, you know, social, uh, equation Global phenomenon of productivity Cloud. Combined with this notion of virtual changes, the workloads, the work flows, the workplace and the workforce, right, The future work. So I think, you know, we're watching this closely. I know you guys have both had great success from the pandemic with this new pressure on the cloud, because it's a new model, a new way to do things, So we'll keep watching it. Thanks for the insight. Thanks for coming on and and enjoy the rest of reinvent. >>Great. Thank >>you. Great to be here. >>Okay, this the cubes coverage. I'm John for your host of Cuban, remember? Go to the reinvent site. Three weeks of great virtual content over this month, Of course. Cube coverage for three weeks. Stay tuned off. All the analysis and a lot of great thought leadership in the industry commentary. Stay with us throughout the month. Thank you. Yeah,

>>From around the globe. It's the queue with digital coverage of DockerCon live 2020 brought to you by Docker and its ecosystem partners. >>Hello everyone. Welcome to Docker con 2020 I'm John furrier with the cube. I'm in our Palo Alto studios with our quarantine crew. We have a great lineup here for DockerCon con 2020 virtual event. Normally it was in person face to face. I'll be with you throughout the day from an amazing lineup of content over 50 different sessions, cube tracks, keynotes, and we've got two great co-hosts here with Docker, Jenny Marcio and Brett Fisher. We'll be with you all day, all day today, taking you through the program, helping you navigate the sessions. I'm so excited, Jenny. This is a virtual event. We talk about this. Can you believe it? We're, you know, may the internet gods be with us today and hope everyone's having an easy time getting in. Jenny, Brett, thank you for being here. Hey, >>Yeah. Hi everyone. Uh, so great to see everyone chatting and telling us where they're from. Welcome to the Docker community. We have a great day planned for you >>Guys. Great job. I'm getting this all together. I know how hard it is. These virtual events are hard to pull off. I'm blown away by the community at Docker. The amount of sessions that are coming in the sponsor support has been amazing. Just the overall excitement around the brand and the, and the opportunities given this tough times where we're in. Um, it's super exciting. Again, made the internet gods be with us throughout the day, but there's plenty of content. Uh, Brett's got an amazing all day marathon group of people coming in and chatting. Jenny, this has been an amazing journey and it's a great opportunity. Tell us about the virtual event. Why DockerCon virtual. Obviously everyone's cancelling their events, but this is special to you guys. Talk about Docker con virtual this year. >>Yeah. You know, the Docker community shows up at DockerCon every year and even though we didn't have the opportunity to do an in person event this year, we didn't want to lose the time that we all come together at DockerCon. The conversations, the amazing content and learning opportunities. So we decided back in December to make Docker con a virtual event. And of course when we did that, there was no quarantine. Um, we didn't expect, you know, I certainly didn't expect to be delivering it from my living room, but we were just, I mean we were completely blown away. There's nearly 70,000 people across the globe that have registered for Docker con today. And when you look at backer cons of past right live events, really and more learning are just the tip of the iceberg. And so thrilled to be able to deliver a more inclusive vocal event today. And we have so much planned. Uh, I think Brett, you want to tell us some of the things that you have planned? >>Well, I'm sure I'm going to forget something cause there's a lot going on. But, uh, we've obviously got interviews all day today on this channel with John the crew. Um, Jenny has put together an amazing set of all these speakers all day long in the sessions. And then you have a captain's on deck, which is essentially the YouTube live hangout where we just basically talk shop. Oh, it's all engineers, all day long, captains and special guests. And we're going to be in chat talking to you about answering your questions. Maybe we'll dig into some stuff based on the problems you're having or the questions you have. Maybe there'll be some random demos, but it's basically, uh, not scripted. It's an all day long unscripted event, so I'm sure it's going to be a lot of fun hanging out in there. >>Well guys, I want to just say it's been amazing how you structured this so everyone has a chance to ask questions, whether it's informal laid back in the captain's channel or in the sessions where the speakers will be there with their, with their presentations. But Jenny, I want to get your thoughts because we have a site out there that's structured a certain way for the folks watching. If you're on your desktop, there's a main stage hero. There's then tracks and Brett's running the captain's tracks. You can click on that link and jump into his session all day long. He's got an amazing set of line of sleet, leaning back, having a good time. And then each of the tracks, you can jump into those sessions. It's on a clock. It'll be available on demand. All that content is available if you're on your desktop, if you're on your mobile, it's the same thing. >>Look at the calendar, find the session that you want. If you're interested in it, you could watch it live and chat with the participants in real time or watch it on demand. So there's plenty of content to navigate through. We do have it on a clock and we'll be streaming sessions as they happen. So you're in the moment and that's a great time to chat in real time. But there's more, Jenny, you're getting more out of this event. We, you guys try to bring together the stimulation of community. How does the participants get more out of the the event besides just consuming some of the content all day today? >>Yeah. So first set up your profile, put your picture next to your chat handle and then chat. We have like, uh, John said we have various setups today to help you get the most out of your experience are breakout sessions. The content is prerecorded so you get quality content and the speakers and chat. So you can ask questions the whole time. Um, if you're looking for the hallway track, then definitely check out the captain's on deck channel. Uh, and then we have some great interviews all day on the queue so that up your profile, join the conversation and be kind, right. This is a community event. Code of conduct is linked on every page at the top and just have a great day. >>And Brett, you guys have an amazing lineup on the captain, so you have a great YouTube channel that you have your stream on. So the folks who were familiar with that can get that either on YouTube or on the site. The chat is integrated in, so you're set up, what do you got going on? Give us the highlights. What are you excited about throughout your day? Take us through your program on the captains. That's going to be probably pretty dynamic in the chat too. >>Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, I'm sure we're going to have less, uh, lots of, lots of stuff going on in chat. So no concerns there about, uh, having crickets in the, in the chat. But we're going to, uh, basically starting the day with two of my good Docker captain friends, uh, Nirmal Mehta and Laura taco. And we're going to basically start you out and at the end of this keynote, at the end of this hour, and we're going to get you going. And then you can maybe jump out and go to take some sessions. Maybe there's some cool stuff you want to check out in other sessions that are, you want to chat and talk with the, the instructors, the speakers there, and then you're going to come back to us, right? Or go over, check out the interview. So the idea is you're hopping back and forth and throughout the day we're basically changing out every hour. >>We're not just changing out the, uh, the guests basically, but we're also changing out the topics that we can cover because different guests will have different expertise. We're going to have some special guests in from Microsoft, talk about some of the cool stuff going on there. And basically it's captains all day long. And, uh, you know, if you've been on my YouTube live show you, you've watched that, you've seen a lot of the guests we have on there. I'm lucky to just hang out with all these really awesome people around the world, so it's going to be fun. >>Awesome. And the content again has been preserved. You guys had a great session on call for paper sessions. Jenny, this is good stuff. What are the things can people do to make it interesting? Obviously we're looking for suggestions. Feel free to, to chirp on Twitter about ideas that can be new. But you guys got some surprises. There's some selfies. What else? What's going on? Any secret, uh, surprises throughout the day. >>There are secret surprises throughout the day. You'll need to pay attention to the keynotes. Brett will have giveaways. I know our wonderful sponsors have giveaways planned as well in their sessions. Uh, hopefully right you, you feel conflicted about what you're going to attend. So do know that everything is recorded and will be available on demand afterwards so you can catch anything that you miss. Most of them will be available right after they stream the initial time. >>All right, great stuff. So they've got the Docker selfie. So the Docker selfies, the hashtag is just Docker con hashtag Docker con. If you feel like you want to add some of the hashtag no problem, check out the sessions. You can pop in and out of the captains is kind of the cool, cool. Kids are going to be hanging out with Brett and then all they'll knowledge and learning. Don't miss the keynote. The keynote should be solid. We got changed governor from red monk delivering a keynote. I'll be interviewing him live after his keynote. So stay with us and again, check out the interactive calendar. All you gotta do is look at the calendar and click on the session you want. You'll jump right in. Hop around, give us feedback. We're doing our best. Um, Brett, any final thoughts on what you want to share to the community around, uh, what you got going on the virtual event? Just random thoughts. >>Yeah. Uh, so sorry, we can't all be together in the same physical place. But the coolest thing about as business online is that we actually get to involve everyone. So as long as you have a computer and internet, you can actually attend DockerCon if you've never been to one before. So we're trying to recreate that experience online. Um, like Jenny said, the code of conduct is important. So, you know, we're all in this together with the chat, so try to try to be nice in there. These are all real humans that, uh, have feelings just like me. So let's, let's try to keep it cool and, uh, over in the Catherine's channel be taking your questions and maybe playing some music, playing some games, giving away some free stuff. Um, while you're, you know, in between sessions learning. Oh yeah. >>And I gotta say props to your rig. You've got an amazing setup there, Brett. I love what your show you do. It's really bad ass and kick ass. So great stuff. Jenny sponsors ecosystem response to this event has been phenomenal. The attendance 67,000. We're seeing a surge of people hitting the site now. So, um, if you're not getting in, just, you know, just wait going, we're going to crank through the queue, but the sponsors on the ecosystem really delivered on the content side and also the sport. You want to share a few shout outs on the sponsors who really kind of helped make this happen. >>Yeah, so definitely make sure you check out the sponsor pages and you go, each page is the actual content that they will be delivering. So they are delivering great content to you. Um, so you can learn and a huge thank you to our platinum and gold authors. >>Awesome. Well I got to say, I'm super impressed. I'm looking forward to the Microsoft Amazon sessions, which are going to be good. And there's a couple of great customer sessions there and you know, I tweeted this out last night and let them get you guys' reaction to this because you know, there's been a lot of talk around the covert crisis that we're in, but there's also a positive upshot to this is Cambridge and explosion of developers that are going to be building new apps. And I said, you know, apps apps aren't going to just change the world. They're gonna save the world. So a lot of the theme years, the impact that developers are having right now in the current situation, you know, if we get the goodness of compose and all the things going on in Docker and the relationships, this real impact happening with the developer community. And it's pretty evident in the program and some of the talks and some of the examples how containers and microservices are certainly changing the world and helping save the world. Your thoughts. >>Yeah. So if you, I think we have a, like you said, a number of sessions and interviews in the program today that really dive into that. And even particularly around coven, um, Clemente is sharing his company's experience, uh, from being able to continue operations in Italy when they were completely shut down. Uh, beginning of March, we have also in the cube channel several interviews about from the national Institute of health and precision cancer medicine at the end of the day. And you just can really see how containerization and, uh, developers are moving in industry and, and really humanity forward because of what they're able to build and create, uh, with advances in technology. Yeah. >>And first responders and these days is developers. Brett compose is getting a lot of traction on Twitter. I can see some buzz already building up. There's huge traction with compose, just the ease of use and almost a call for arms for integrating into all the system language libraries. I mean, what's going on with compose? I mean, what's the captain say about this? I mean, it seems to be really tracking in terms of demand and interest. >>Yeah, it's, it's a, I think we're over 700,000 composed files on GitHub. Um, so it's definitely beyond just the standard Docker run commands. It's definitely the next tool that people use to run containers. Um, just by having that we just by, and that's not even counting. I mean, that's just counting the files that are named Docker compose Yammel so I'm sure a lot of you out there have created a gamma file to manage your local containers or even on a server with Docker compose. And the nice thing is, is Docker is doubling down on that. So we've gotten some news recently, um, from them about what they want to do with opening the spec up, getting more companies involved, because compose is already gathered so much interest from the community. You know, AWS has importers, there's Kubernetes importers for it. So there's more stuff coming and we might just see something here in a few minutes. >>Well, let's get into the keynote. Guys, jump into the keynote. If you missed anything, come back to the stream, check out the sessions, check out the calendar. Let's go. Let's have a great time. Have some fun. Thanks for enjoy the rest of the day. We'll see you soon..