>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCube and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> When a piece of digital art sells for $69.3 million, more than has ever been paid for works, by Gauguin or Salvador Dali, making it created the third most expensive living artists in the world. One can't help but take notice and ask, what is going on? The latest craze around NFTs may feel a bit bubblicious, but it's yet another sign, that the digital age is now fully upon us. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon's CUBE insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we want to take a look at some of the trends, that may be difficult for observers and investors to understand, but we think offer significant insights to the future and possibly some opportunities for young investors many of whom are fans of this program. And how the trends may relate to enterprise tech. Okay, so this guy Beeple is now the hottest artist on the planet. That's his Twitter profile. That picture on the inset. His name is Mike Winkelmann. He is actually a normal looking dude, but that's the picture he chose for his Twitter. This collage reminds me of the Million Dollar Homepage. You may already know the story, but many of you may not. Back in 2005 a college kid from England named Alex Tew, T-E-W created The Million Dollar Homepage to fund his education. And his idea was to create a website with a million pixels, and sell ads at a dollar for each pixel. Guess how much money he raised. A million bucks, right? No, wrong. He raised $1,037,100. How so you ask? Well, he auctioned off the last 1000 pixels on eBay, which fetched an additional $38,000. Crazy, right? Well, maybe not. Pretty creative in a way, way early sign of things to come. Now, I'm not going to go deep into NFTs, and explain the justification behind them. There's a lot of material that's been published that can do justice to the topic better than I can. But here are the basics, NFTs stands for Non-Fungible Tokens. They are digital representations of assets that exist in a blockchain. Now, each token as a unique and immutable identifier, and it uses cryptography to ensure its authenticity. NFTs by the name, they're not fungible. So, unlike Bitcoin, Ethereum or other cryptocurrencies, which can be traded on a like-for-like basis, in other words, if you and I each own one bitcoin we know exactly how much each of our bitcoins is worth at any point of time. Non-Fungible Tokens each have their own unique values. So, they're not comparable on a like-to-like basis. But what's the point of this? Well, NFTs can be applied to any property, identities tweets, videos, we're seeing collectables, digital art, pretty much anything. And it's really. The use cases are unlimited. And NFTs can streamline transactions, and they can be bought and sold very efficiently without the need for a trusted third party involved. Now, the other benefit is the probability of fraud, is greatly reduced. So where do NFTs fit as an asset class? Well, they're definitely a new type of asset. And again, I'm not going to try to justify their existence, but I want to talk about the choices, that investors have in the market today. The other day, I was on a call with Jay Po. He is a VC and a Principal at a company called Stage 2 Capital. He's a former Bessemer VC and one of the sharper investors around. And he was talking about the choices that investors have and he gave a nice example that I want to share with you and try to apply here. Now, as an investor, you have alternatives, of course we're showing here a few with their year to date charts. Now, as an example, you can buy Amazon stock. Now, if you bought just about exactly a year ago you did really well, you probably saw around an 80% return or more. But if you want to jump in today, your mindset might be, hmm, well, okay. Amazon, they're going to be around for a long time, so it's kind of low risk and I like the stock, but you're probably going to get, well let's say, maybe a 10% annual return over the longterm, 15% or maybe less maybe single digits, but, maybe more than that but it's unlikely that any kind of reasonable timeframe within any reasonable timeframe you're going to get a 10X return. In order to get that type of return on invested capital, Amazon would have to become a $16 trillion valued company. So, you sit there, you asked yourself, what's the probability that Amazon goes out of business? Well, that's pretty low, right? And what are the chances it becomes a $16 trillion company over the next several years? Well, it's probably more likely that it continues to grow at that more stable rate that I talked about. Okay, now let's talk about Snowflake. Now, as you know, we've covered the company quite extensively. We watched this company grow from an early stage startup and then saw its valuation increase steadily as a private company, but you know, even early last year it was valued around $12 billion, I think in February, and as late as mid September right before the IPO news hit that Marc Benioff and Warren Buffett were going to put in $250 million each at the IPO or just after the IPO and it was projected that Snowflake's valuation could go over $20 billion at that point. And on day one after the IPO Snowflake, closed worth more than $50 billion, the stock opened at 120, but unless you knew a guy, you had to hold your nose and buy on day one. And you know, maybe got it at 240, maybe you got it at 250, you might have got it at higher and at the time you might recall, I said, You're likely going to get a better price than on day one, which is usually the case with most IPOs, stock today's around 230. But you look at Snowflake today and if you want to buy in, you look at it and say, Okay, well I like the company, it's probably still overvalued, but I can see the company's value growing substantially over the next several years, maybe doubling in the near to midterm [mumbles] hit more than a hundred billion dollar valuation back as recently as December, so that's certainly feasible. The company is not likely to flame out because it's highly valued, I have to probably be patient for a couple of years. But you know, let's say I liked the management, I liked the company, maybe the company gets into the $200 billion range over time and I can make a decent return, but to get a 10X return on Snowflake you have to get to a valuation of over a half a trillion. Now, to get there, if it gets there it's going to become one of the next great software companies of our time. And you know, frankly if it gets there I think it's going to go to a trillion. So, if that's what your bet is then you know, you would be happy with that of course. But what's the likelihood? As an investor you have to evaluate that, what's the probability? So, it's a lower risk investment in Snowflake but maybe more likely that Snowflake, you know, they run into competition or the market shifts, maybe they get into the $200 billion range, but it really has to transform the industry execute for you to get in to that 10 bagger territory. Okay, now let's look at a different asset that is cryptocurrency called Compound, way more risky. But Compound is a decentralized protocol that allows you to lend and borrow cryptocurrencies. Now, I'm not saying go out and buy compound but just as a thought exercise is it's got an asset here with a lower valuation, probably much higher upside, but much higher risk. But so for Compound to get to 10X return it's got to get to $20 billion valuation. Now, maybe compound isn't the right asset for your cup of tea, but there are many cryptos that have made it that far and if you do your research and your homework you could find a project that's much, much earlier stage that yes, is higher risk but has a much higher upside that you can participate in. So, this is how investors, all investors really look at their choices and make decisions. And the more sophisticated investors, they're going to use detailed metrics and analyze things like MOIC, Multiple on Invested Capital and IRR, which is Internal Rate of Return, do TAM analysis, Total Available Market. They're going to look at competition. They're going to look at detailed company models in ARR and Churn rates and so forth. But one of the things we really want to talk about today and we brought this up at the snowflake IPO is if you were Buffet or Benioff and you had to, you know, quarter of a dollars to put in you could get an almost guaranteed return with your late in the game, but pre IPO money or a look if you were Mike Speiser or one of the earlier VCs or even someone like Jeremy Burton who was part of the inside network you could get stock or options, much cheaper. You get a 5X, 10X, 50X or even North of a hundred X return like the early VCs who took a big risk. But chances are, you're not one of these in one of these categories. So how can you as a little guy participate in something big and you might remember at the time of the snowflake IPO we showed you this picture, who are these people, Olaf Carlson-Wee, Chris Dixon, this girl Sono. And of course Tim Berners-Lee, you know, that these are some of the folks that inspired me personally to pay attention to crypto. And I want to share the premise that caught my attention. It was this. Think about the early days of the internet. If you saw what Berners-Lee was working on or Linus Torvalds, in one to invest in the internet, you really couldn't. I mean, you couldn't invest in Linux or TCP/IP or HTTP. Suppose you could have invested in Cisco after its IPO that would have paid off pretty big time, for sure. You know, he could have waited for the Netscape IPO but the core infrastructure of the internet was fundamentally not directly a candidate for investment by you or really, you know, by anybody. And Satya Nadella said the other day we have reached maximum centralization. The main protocols of the internet were largely funded by the government and they've been co-opted by the giants. But with crypto, you actually can invest in core infrastructure technologies that are building out a decentralized internet, a new internet, you know call it web three Datto. It's a big part of the investment thesis behind what Carlson-wee is doing. And Andreessen Horowitz they have two crypto funds. They've raised more than $800 million to invest and you should read the firm's crypto investment thesis and maybe even take their crypto startup classes and some great content there. Now, one of the people that I haven't mentioned in this picture is Camila Russo. She's a journalist she's turned into hardcore crypto author is doing great job explaining the white hot defining space or decentralized finance. If you're just at read her work and educate yourself and learn more about the future and be happy perhaps you'll find some 10X or even hundred X opportunities. So look, there's so much innovation going around going on around blockchain and crypto. I mean, you could listen to Warren Buffet and Janet Yellen who implied this is all going to end badly. But while look, these individuals they're smart people. I don't think they would be my go-to source on understanding the potential of the technology and the future of what it could bring. Now, we've talked earlier at the, at the start here about NFTs. DeFi is one of the most interesting and disruptive trends to FinTech, names like Celsius, Nexo, BlockFi. BlockFi let's actually the average person participate in liquidity pools is actually quite interesting. Crypto is going mainstream Tesla, micro strategy putting Bitcoin on their balance sheets. We have a 2017 Jamie diamond. He called Bitcoin a tulip bulb like fraud, yet just the other day JPM announced a structured investment vehicle to give its clients a basket of stocks that have exposure to crypto, PayPal allowing customers to buy, sell, and Hodl crypto. You can trade crypto on Robin Hood. Central banks are talking about launching digital currencies. I talked about the Fedcoin for a number of years and why not? Coinbase is doing an IPO will give it a value of over a hundred billion. Wow, that sounds frothy, but still big names like Mark Cuban and Jamaat palliate Patiala have been active in crypto for a while. Gronk is getting into NFTs. So it goes to have a little bit of that bubble feel to it. But look often when tech bubbles burst they shake out the pretenders but if there's real tech involved, some contenders emerge. So, and they often do so as dominant players. And I really believe that the innovation around crypto is going to be sustained. Now, there is a new web being built out. So if you want to participate, you got to do some research figure out things like how PolkaWorks, make a call on whether you think avalanche is an Ethereum killer dig in and find out about new projects and form a thesis. And you may, as a small player be able to find some big winners, but look you do have to be careful. There was a lot of fraud during the ICO. Craze is your risk. So understand the Tokenomics and maybe as importantly the Pump-a-nomics, because they certainly loom as dangers. This is not for the faint of heart but because I believe it involves real tech. I like it way better than Reddit stocks like GameStop for example, now not to diss Reddit. There's some good information on Reddit. If you're patient, you can find it. And there's lots of good information flowing on Discord. There's people flocking to Telegram as a hedge against big tech. Maybe there's all sounds crazy. And you know what, if you've grown up in a privileged household and you have a US Education you know, maybe it is nuts and a bit too risky for you. But if you're one of the many people who haven't been able to participate in these elite circles there are things going on, especially outside of the US that are democratizing investment opportunities. And I think that's pretty cool. You just got to be careful. So, this is a bit off topic from our typical focus and ETR survey analysis. So let's bring this back to the enterprise because there's a lot going on there as well with blockchain. Now let me first share some quotes on blockchain from a few ETR Venn Roundtables. First comment is from a CIO to diversified holdings company who says correctly, blockchain will hit the finance industry first but there are use cases in healthcare given the privacy and security concerns and logistics to ensure provenance and reduce fraud. And to that individual's point about finance. This is from the CTO of a major financial platform. We're really taking a look at payments. Yeah. Do you think traditional banks are going to lose control of the payment systems? Well, not without a fight, I guess, but look there's some real disruption possibilities here. And just last comment from a government CIO says, we're going to wait until the big platform players they get into their software. And so that is happening Oracle, IBM, VMware, Microsoft, AWS Cisco, they all have blockchain initiatives going on, now by the way, none of these tech companies wants to talk about crypto. They try to distance themselves from that topic which is understandable, I guess, but I'll tell you there's far more innovation going on in crypto than there is in enterprise tech companies at this point. But I predict that the crypto innovations will absolutely be seeping into enterprise tech players over time. But for now the cloud players, they want to support developers who are building out this new internet. The database is certainly a logical place to support a mutable transactions which allow people to do business one-on-one and have total confidence that the source hasn't been hacked or changed and infrastructure to support smart contracts. We've seen that. The use cases in the enterprise are endless asset tracking data access, food, tracking, maintenance, KYC or know your customer, there's applications in different industries, telecoms, oil and gas on and on and on. So look, think of NFTs as a signal crypto craziness is a signal. It's a signal as to how IT in other parts of companies and their data might be organized, managed and tracked and protected, and very importantly, valued. Look today. There's a lot of memes. Crypto kitties, art, of course money as well. Money is the killer app for blockchain, but in the future the underlying technology of blockchain and the many percolating innovations around it could become I think will become a fundamental component of a new digital economy. So get on board, do some research and learn for yourself. Okay, that's it for today. Remember all of these episodes they're available as podcasts, wherever you listen. I publish weekly on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. Please feel free to comment on my LinkedIn post or tweet me @dvellante or email me at david.vellante@siliconangle.com. Don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey action and data science. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Be well, be careful out there in crypto land. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time. (soft music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto and Boston connecting with thought leaders all around the world. This is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to this special CUBE virtual coverage of the AWS summit virtual online. This is an event that Amazon normally has in-person in San Francisco, but now it's virtual around the world, Seoul, Korea, in Tokyo, all over the world and Asia-Pacific and in North America. I'm John Furrier here joined with Stu Miniman. So Stu, we're kicking off AWS virtual with theCUBE virtual. I'm in Palo Alto with the quarantine crew. You're in Massachusetts, in Boston and the quarantine crew there. Stu, great to have you on to talk about AWS virtual summit. >> Yeah, John, it's great to see you. It's been, you know, interesting times doing all these remote interviews. As many of us say, I sure don't miss the planes and the hotels, but I do miss the communities. I do miss the hallway conversation, but great to see you John. Love the Midnight Madness shirt from re:Invent last year. >> Well, we want to thank Amazon for stepping up with some sponsorship for allow us to do the virtual CUBE alongside their virtual event, because now it's a global community. It's all virtual, there are no boundaries theCube has no boundary. Stu, we've got a great program. We have Corey Quinn coming up and expect to hear from him last week in AWS. He's known for, he's a rising star in the community, certainly CUBE guest and also guest host and analyst for theCUBE. We expect to hear all the latest from his big Zoom post controversy, to really what's going on in AWS, around what services are high. I know you're going to do a great interview with him, but let's start with Amazon. We're seeing a ton of activity. Obviously most recently, last week was the JEDI thing, which was an agency protest, kind of confidential. Microsoft blew that up big time with a post by their worldwide comms person Frank Shaw, countered by Drew Herdener, who's the comms global lead for AWS. And so a war of words is ensuing. This is again, pointing to the cloud native war that's going on with a JEDI conference. I mean, the JEDI contract for $10 billion, which is worth to Microsoft. This shows that the heat is on, Stu. This is a absolute bloodbath between AWS and Microsoft. We're seeing it play out now virtually with Amazon, A.I. large scale cloud. This is huge, this is another level. A DEFCON one basically, your thoughts? >> Yeah, John, you've covered this really well. It's been really interesting plot, number one, you talked about the security requirement, when AWS launched the GovCloud had the CIA as a client, early on many years ago. It was the green light for many companies that go from "Wait, is the cloud secure enough?" to "Well, if it's good enough for "the federal government in the U.S., "it's probably good enough for the enterprise." When Microsoft won JEDI, they didn't have all the certification, to meet what was in the contract. They had a ticking clock to make sure that they could meet those security engagements, as well as one of the pieces on the task board that moved was Oracle made a partnership announcement with Azure. We know the federal government uses Oracle quite a bit, so they can now run that in Azure and not have the penalties from Oracle. So that many have said, "Hey AWS, "why don't you kind of let that one piece of business go? "You've got federal business." But those ripple effects we understand from one contract kind of move things around. >> Well, my take on this is just the tempest in the teapot. Either Microsoft's got something that we don't know or they're running scared. My prediction, Stu, is that the clock is going to tick out. D.O.D. is going to award the contract again to Microsoft because I don't think the D.O.D. wants to change based upon the data that I'm getting from my reporting. And then ultimately Amazon will keep this going in court because Microsoft has been deficient on winning the deal. And that is by the judge and in government contracts, as you know, when you're deficient, you're ineligible. So essentially on the tech specs, Microsoft failed to meet the criteria of the contract and they're deficient. They still can't host top secret content even if they wanted to. This is going to be a game changer. If this comes out to be true, it will be a huge tech scandal. If it's true, then AWS is going to have egg on their face. Okay, so moving past JEDI, this speaks to the large scale problems that are having with COVID. You seeing Amazon, they're all working at home, but they still get to run the servers. They can do it, they've got cloud native, you got DevOps, but for their customers Stu, but people who are trying to do hybrid, what are you hearing in terms of the kinds of situations that people are doing? Are they still going to work with masks on? Are there still data centers that need to be managed? What are you hearing Stu, in the tech worlds do around COVID-19 and as the cloud becomes more apparent, it's obvious that if you're not cloud native, you're going to be on the wrong side of history here, it's pretty obvious. >> Well, absolutely John, there is a bit of a tailwind behind cloud or with COVID-19, everything from, you mentioned work from home. Everybody needs to be on their VPN. They need to access their services, where they are. If you've got a global workforce, if you thought that your infrastructure was going to be able to handle that, you might not be in for a good story. AWS is meeting that need. There's been some of the cloud providers that have had performance issues, that have had to prioritize which customers can get access to things. AWS is standing strong, they're meeting their customers and they're answering the call of cloud. We know that AWS puts a huge investment into their environment. If you compare an availability zone or from AWS, it is very, very sturdy. It's not just, you know, a small cluster and they say, "Hey, we can run all over the place." To be specific Azure, has been having some of those performance issues and there's been some concerns. Corey actually wrote a really good article talking about that it actually puts a bad view on public cloud in general, but we know not all public clouds are the same. So, Google has been doing quite well, managing the demand spike, so has AWS. Microsoft has needed to respond a little bit. >> Since you just mentioned, Microsoft's outages, Microsoft actually got caught on their 8K filing, which I just had me going through and I noticed that they said they had all this uptime for the cloud. It turns out it wasn't the cloud, it was the team's product. They had to actually put a strike a line through it legally. So a lot of people getting called out, but it doesn't matter, it's a crisis. I think that's not going to be a core issue. This is going to be what technology has been needed the most. And I got to ask you Stu, when was the last time you and I talked about virtual desktops? Because hey, if you're working at home and you're not at your desk, you might need some stuff on your desk. This is a real issue. I mean it's kind of a corner case in tech, but virtual desktops, if you're not at the office, you need to have that at home. This is a huge issue and it's been a surge of demand. >> Yeah, there were jokes in the community that, you know, finally at the year of V.D.I., but desktop as the service John, is an area that took a little while to get going. So, Dave Vellante and I were just having a conversation about this. You and Dave interviewed me when Amazon released workspaces and it was like, you know, Citrix is doing so well and V.D.I. isn't the hotness anymore, but desktop as a service, has grown, if you talk about desktop as a service compared to VDI, VDI is still a bit of a heavy lift. Even if you've got hyper converged infrastructure, roll this out, it's a couple of months to put these whole solutions together. Now if you have some of that infrastructure, can you scale it, can you build them up much faster? Yes you can. But if you're starting to enable your workforce a little bit faster, desktop as a service is going to be faster. AWS has a strong solution with workspaces. It really is that enablement and it's also putting pressure on the SaaS providers. One, they need scale and two, they need to be responsive that some of their customers need to scale up really fast and some of them need to dial things down. Always worry about, some of these contracts that the SaaS providers put you in. So, customers need to make sure they're being loud and clear with their providers. If you need help, if you need to adjust something, push back on them because they should be responsive, because we know that there is a broad impact on this, but it will not be a permanent impact. So, these are the times that companies need to work closely with customers, because otherwise you will, either make a customer for life or you will have somebody that will not be saying good about you for a long time. >> Well Stu, so let's just quickly run through some of the highlights so far on the virtual conference, virtual event. Obviously Amazon pre-announced last month, the Windows migration service, which has been a big part of their business. They've been doing it for 11 years. So we're going to have an interview with an AWS person to talk about that. Also AppFlow is announced as well as part of the virtual kind of private connects. So, you know, you're seeing that right here, large scale data lakes breaking down those silos, moving data from the cloud, from the console into the top applicants, like Salesforce is the big one. So that was kind of pre announced. The big story here is the Kendra availability and the augmented A.I. availability, among other things. This is this big story. This kind of shows the Amazon track record. They pre-announced that re:Invent and try to run as fast as they can to get it shipping. The focus of AI, the focus of large scale capacity, whether it's building on top of EC2, serverless, Lambda, A.I., all this is kind of coming together. Data, high capacity operational throughput and added value. That seems to be the highlights, your reaction? >> Yeah, so John, AppFlow is an interesting one, we were just talking about task providers. An area that we've been spending a lot of time talking with the East coast system is my data is all over the place. Yes, there's my data centers, public cloud, but there's all of these task providers. So, if I have data in ServiceNow I have it in Workday, I have it in Salesforce, how do I have connectors there? How do I secure that? How do I protect that? So Amazon, working with a broad ecosystem and helping to pull that together is definitely an interesting one to watch. Kendra definitely been some good buzz in the ecosystem for a while there. The question is on natural language processing and A.I., where are the customers with these deployments? Because some of them, if they're a little bit more longterm strategic might be the kind of projects that get put on pause rather than the ones that are critical for me to run the business today. >> And I just did a podcast with the VMware ecosystem last week talking about which projects will be funded, which ones won't. It brings up this new virtual work environment, where some people are going to get paid and some people aren't. If you're not core to the enterprise, you're probably not going to get paid. If you're not getting a phone call to come into work, you're probably going to get fired. So there will be projects that will be cut and projects that will be funded. Certainly virtual events, which I want to talk to you about in a minute, to applications that are driving revenue and or engagement around the new workforce. So the virtualization of business is happening. Now, we joke because we know server virtualization actually enabled the cloud, right? So I think there's going to be a huge Cambrian explosion of applications. So I want to get your thoughts, the folks you've been talking through the past few months, what are you hearing in terms of those kinds of projects that people are going to be leaning into and funding, versus ones they might put on hold? Have you heard anything? >> Yeah, well, John, it's interesting, when you go back at its core, what is AWS? And they want to enable build. So the last couple of years we've been talking about all of the new applications that will get built. That's not getting put on hold, John. What I do, not just to run the business but grow the business. I need to still have applications at the core of what we do. Data and application really are what driving companies today. So that piece is so critically important and therefore AWS is a very strategic partner there. >> Yeah, I've been seeing the same things too. I think the common trend that I would just add to that would be I'm seeing companies looking at the COVID crisis as an opportunity. And frankly in some cases an excuse to lay people off and that's kind of, you're seeing some of that. But at the end of the day that people are resetting, re-inventing and then putting new growth strategies together, that still doesn't change. business still needs to get done, so great point. All right, Stu, virtual events. We're here with the AWS summit. Normally we're on the show floor with theCUBE, we are here with the virtual CUBE doing our virtual thing. It's been interesting, Stu. A lot of our events have converted to virtual, some have been canceled but most of them have been been running on the virtual. We've been plugged in. But theCUBE is evolving, and I want to get your thoughts on how you see theCube evolving. I've been getting a lot of questions. This came up again on the VMware community podcast. How has theCUBE morphed? And I know that we've been working hard with a lot of our customers, how have we evolved? Because we're in the middle of this digital wave. This is a virtualization wave. theCUBE is in there. We've been successful, there's been different use cases. Some have been embedded into the software. Amazon's got their own run a show. But events are more than just running the show content. There's a lot more community behind this Stu, your thoughts on how theCUBE has evolved and what are you seeing? >> I'm glad John, you just mentioned community. So you and I have talked many times on air and did this too about theCUBE is as much a network and a community as it is a media company. So, first of all it's been so heartening over the last couple of months that we've been putting out content. We're still getting some great feedback from the community. One of the things I personally miss is, when we step off the stage and you walk the hallway and you bump into people that know and they ask you questions or they share some of the things that they're going through. That data that we always look for is something we still need. So I'm making sure to reach out to friends diving back into the social panels to make sure that we understand the pulse of what's going on. But, John, our community has always been online so a big piece of theCUBE is relatively unchanged other than we're doing all of the interviews remote. We have to deal with everyone's home systems and home network. Every once in a while you hear a dog barking in the background or a child running, but it actually humanized. So there's that opportunity for the communities to rally together. Some of my favorite interviews have been, the open source communities that are gathering together to work on common issues. A lot of them specifically for the global pandemic. And so there are some really good stories out there. I worry when you talk about companies that are saying, Hey, this is the-- (sound cuts out) There have been so many job losses, in this pandemic that it just is heartbreaking. So, we love when the tech community is helping to spur new opportunities, great new industries. I had a great interview that I did with our friends from A Cloud Guru and they've seen about a 20 to 30% increase on people taking the online training. And one of the main things that they're taking training on is the 101 courses on AWS, on Google and on Azure as well as an interesting point John, they said multicloud is something that has come up. So, 2020, we've been wondering is AWS going to admit that multicloud is a thing? Or are they going to stick with their hybrid message and ask that their partners not talk about multicloud? >> It's been interesting on the virtual queue, because we and Amazon's been a visionary in this and letting theCUBE be virtual with them. It's become a connective tissue, Stu, between the community and if you think about how much money the companies are saving by not running the physical events and with the layoffs as you mentioned, I think there could be an opportunity for theCUBE to be that connective tissue to bring people together. And I think that's the mission that we hope will unfold. But ultimately digital investments will probably go up from this. I'm seeing a lot of great conversion around, okay, so the content, what does it mean to me? Is that my my friend group, how are my friends involved? How do I learn, how do I discover? How do I connect? And I think the interesting thing about theCube is we've seen that upfront and I think there's a positive sign ahead, Stu, around virtualization of the media and the community and I think is going to be an economic opportunity and I hope that we could help people find either jobs or ways to reengage and reconnect. So again, re:Invent's coming, you've got VMworld, all these big shows too, they drop so much cash! Can you imagine if they put all that cash into the community? I think that's a viable scenario. >> Yeah, no, absolutely, John. There is big money in events. Yes, there are less costs. There are also almost none of them are charging for people to attend and very few of them are charging their sponsors. So, big shift in how we have to look at these. It needs to be a real focus on content. I mean, from our standpoint, John, from day one, and we've been doing this a decade now, in the early days when it was a wing and a prayer on the technology, it was always about the content and the best people help extract that signal from the noise. So, some things have changed, the mission overall stays the same. >> And you know what, Amazon is being humble. They're saying we're figuring it out. Of course, we're psyched that we're there with the virtual CUBE. Stu, thanks for spending the time kicking off this virtual coverage, wrap up. Not as good as face-to-face, love to be there on site, but I think it's going to be easier to get guests too Stu in the virtual world, but we're going to go to a hybrid as soon as it comes back to normal. It sounds like cloud Stu, public hybrid virtual. There it is. Stu, thanks so much. >> Thanks John. >> Okay, that's theCUBE coverage for AWS Summit Virtual Online. It's theCUBE virtual coverage. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. Thanks for watching. Stay tuned for the next segment. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hey, welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at our Palo Alto studios today. And obviously, what's top of the news is the coronavirus and COVID-19, and it's having a direct impact on anything where people get together. We're obviously really tied into the convention space. But we're excited to have an expert in the field coming at it from a different kind of point of view, more from the entertainment side. We'd like to welcome, calling in from Tennessee, Lauren Spahn. She is a partner for Shackelford, Bowen, McKinley, or excuse me, but yeah, McKinley & Norton. Lauren, great to see you. >> Hey there, how are ya? >> Jeff Frick: Good. So we were introduced through kind of the process of the South by Southwest cancellation. Before we get into it, tell us a little bit about kind of what you do, what type of clients do you have, who do you guys kind of represent? >> Yeah, sure, so I practice primarily in entertainment law here in Nashville. But I work with a variety of people in the music industry, whether it be artists or music festivals, record labels, publishing companies, you name it, across the US. So I do a lot of work in L.A. and New York as well. And our firm specializes in a little bit of everything, but our national hub is kind of the spearhead for the entertainment and music practice. >> So it's pretty interesting 'cause we're not so directly involved in entertainment, but we do go to a lot of conferences. And, I think, for us, the watershed moment this year was Mobile World Congress earlier this year in February, 100,000 people in Barcelona, Spain. That's a little unique because most of the main vendors are Asian in terms of all the mobile carriers and the handset tech carriers. But, you were saying before we turned the cameras on, that now the South By Southwest event cancellation is kind of sending the same shock waves if you will through the entertainment industry. >> Yeah, I mean South By Southwest obviously is a big coming together of multiple industries. You know, music, film, TV, technology, but it really was one of the first events that were canceled that impacted the music industry. And so, such a large conference to completely cancel, really just started, it was the tip of the iceberg, or I think what we are going to continue to see across the sphere in music whether its tours being canceled or music festivals that are being canceled, everything is kind of starting to ramp up, and were starting to see the effects from South By Southwest line. >> Jeff Frick: Right. So, one of the things that really is just kind of a splash of cold water, is these things are going down it just really highlights the interconnectedness of all these different parts of these events, right? whether it is the primary promoter or the primary bands in the case of South By Southwest or even the tech companies, but then there are tons and tons of secondary, third and other vendors that are involved from food and transportation and the list goes on and on. So, you're quoted quite often in the press about talking about force majeure and that this is something that kind of comes up in contract law when these types of events happen. So, I wonder if you can kind of explain the dictionary definition of force majeure and how do you see it kind of executed traditionally in a contract where maybe one person just can't uphold their part of the deal and how that contrasts with something like this, which is hitting kind of both sides of the agreement, if you will. >> Completely. So, I think it's important to step back and look at if we are going to use a music festival as an example. You have a contract, the music festival itself will have a contract with the artist, but they will also have contracts with their vendors, with the production team that comes in and sets up the staging and the sound and the light. There are a myriad of contracts and so, the language in each contract tends to govern the relationship between the festival and that third party. So, in this situation of let's use an artist, for example. There is different things in the contract that point to how you can cancel and what happens when you cancel. A force majeure is an example of that. And force majeure is something that is outside of the control of both parties. So, again, the festival and the artist. If something like the Coronavirus is coming, neither one of those parties can control that from happening. And so it typically relieves both parties of any obligation to move forward with the contract. What is important, though, is the language that's in that force majeure provision. So, you sometimes will see language like sickness or an epidemic. But then, you may not have that, and you may have language that says, a local or national state of emergency. So, depending upon the state you're in, depending upon the exact situation in the city that you are holding the event, all of those things can be looked or looked to to interpret whether or not the language that's in that force majeure contract will impact you or will give you the rights to cancel that event without having to pay additional money. >> Jeff Frick: Right. >> And so, you know, not only that but you're then seeing it carried out through the insurance policies, as well. So, even if you have force majeure language whether or not the insurance company will help cover the losses for you again depends upon the exact language that's in your insurance policy. >> Jeff Frick: Right. >> So, across the board, it really is a contractual right, that can differ for the different people that are involved. >> Right. But, there's the contractual, the language in the contract, but then there is kind of this random stuff that comes up. And, we hear kind of act of God kind of thrown up by insurance companies when it's something they haven't defined in all the fine language. And then, the other piece that we're hearing about a lot in the news here on Palo Alto, right is the specific descriptive terms used by the authorities. Is it a pandemic? Is it an outbreak? Is it a natural disaster? Is it a state of emergency called by the government? >> Or other. So, how does that figure in on something like we're experiencing? I don't know that we've seen anything quite like this before. >> You know, I was looking back through some contracts earlier this morning because I had a potential cancellation that was going to happen, and I mean some contracts go as far as to even describe the Swine Flu and similar things like that but we really are looking to the authorities to see what decision they are making on everything. And whether or not they are calling it a local state of emergency because a lot of times that exact definition or that exact cause is defined in the agreement . But, yeah, I mean really it comes down to small print wording in this situation, if you are looking at the contract itself to see what rights that you have. What I found is that people aren't going to the nitty gritty of at least the contracts, you're probably going to get into the nitty gritty of the insurance policy, if you have a chance of getting any kind of protection. But, at the end of the day, the artist doesn't want to go play a festival that could potentially cause their fans to have some outbreak of the Coronavirus. An event doesn't want to be liable for holding an event that could be connected with that, as well, because across the board, that creates a PR nightmare for whoever's making that decision. So, you're seeing people that are trying to work together to figure out exactly how we're going to handle things, and what we're going to do moving forward, because no one is going to win in this situation. >> [Jeff Frick} Right. Right. >> It's really just figuring out a way that we can all be in the best position possible across the board. >> Yeah. And I think that's what we're kind of seeing a lot too, where, you know, I think everyone is again instead of just one party that's not upholding their part of the deal and the other party getting screwed on that, this is really, you know, we're kind of in it together, this has kind of come down on both of our houses so how do we work together to minimize the pain and at least, kind of get through this window that we assume will pass at some point or at least the current heightened state will go. But, I just wonder if you have an opinion on, from a legal point of view, and it's not your space, so if you say no that's an okay answer, but, you know, if you look at kind of market forces is determining what is the appropriate action, right? Because we don't really know what's the right action. But, clearly, the market is defined based on activity and the University of Washington shutting down and Stanford shutting down >> Vanderbilt >> Almost is a self-imposed kind of semi-quarantine state, which is just, you know the latest now I think they get the local high school basketball game is they can only have 100 people in the stands in the biggest building they can find and everybody needs to spread out. So, it's just been very interesting to see you know kind of what is the appropriate response. What's the right response? Because ultimately it seems like it's driven by nobody wants to be the one that didn't take the max precautions and something bad happens. >> To be honest, I don't think that anyone really knows. You know, it really is the conversations right now are not the artist's agent calling the festival and saying we're absolutely not doing this The conversation is more so, hey what are you guys seeing? What are you guys thinking? What's the best way to handle this? You know, no one wants to put the consumers and the fans at risk. And, you know, until we have a better handle on exactly how we handle this type of situation, it's really going to be people doing their best to try to not create a situation that's going to, you know, cause some kind of massive outbreak. >> Right. Right. >> If you look at, you know, something like South By, no one wants to cancel, you know. It really impacts, not only the company and the event itself, but really everyone that's associated to it, has a financial hardship because of that decision, but the decision isn't made because someone wants to do it, it's made because collectively, you know, people are feeling like it needs to be done in order to keep people safe. >> Right. >> And if they didn't think that, they'd probably go ahead and try to hold the event and, you know, risk the liability. But, I think people truly want what's in the best interest of everyone. And that's why they are working together to try to figure this out. >> Yeah. Yeah. It really is driven home what social creatures we are when you start to kind of disconnecting crowds and groups of people from so many events and it just continues to ripple through whether it's our business, a convention business, the entertainment business, you know March Madness is coming up here in a very short order. What's going to happen there all the way down to you know, the local talent show for the local middle schoolers that they used to have before graduation, which is now canceled. So, it's interesting times. >> And I think for us, the biggest indicator in terms of just music festivals is going to be what happens with Coachella. And, you know, Billboard and Variety have reported that they're looking to potentially reschedule the event to October, if artists are able. And if not, they're going to have to completely cancel it for this year. And, you know, Coachella is such a massive festival that attracts people from all over the world. And if Coachella is canceled then I think there is a good chance that so long as this is continuing at the speed it is, that we're going to see a lot more music festivals canceled. >> When is Coachella scheduled? >> It starts in about a month. >> In about a month. >> So it's the second weekend in April, but they have to start production and really building out the grounds now. >> Wow. Wow. >> And so the decision kind of has to be made before then. And then, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a decision there in the next few days. >> Yeah. I think I would take the short if I was in Vegas, because there's just not enough data, I don't think, to go forward based on the current situation. I'm glad I'm not the one sitting in that chair. >> Yeah. It'd be a tough position. >> All right, well Lauren, well thank you for sharing your insight and, you know, it's great to get the perspective of another you know kind of industry that's all built around bring people together. And, I think we probably both would agree that this time will pass and we'll get a vaccine out, we'll get the growth curves to start to flatten out and go down which is where they need to go. And then you know I think it will be a different time, but hopefully things will get approximate a little bit more to normal in the not too distant future. >> Yeah, fingers crossed. I hope it gets figured out sooner rather than later and we can all have our summers full of conferences and festivals and the gathering of people. >> Yep. All right Lauren. Well thanks again for your time >> Thank you >> And have a great Tuesday. >> Awesome. You too. >> Alrighty. She's Lauren. I'm Jeff. Thanks for checking in on this Cube Conversation. We'll catch you next time. (upbeat music)

so two points max first off ideas aren't worth a damn ever he's got ideas all right I could give a holy hoot about about ideas I mean I I I got people throw ideas at me all the friggin time you know I don't give a shit I just truly told give a shit right I want actions show me how I'm gonna turn something into an action how am I gonna make something better right and I I want to know ahead of time what that something is am I trying to improve customer attention trying to improve recovery time for an athlete who's got back-to-back games right III I know what I'm trying to do and I want to focus on that where ideas become great and you said it really well max is ideas are something I want to test so but I know what I want to test these of the event what outcome I'm trying to drive so it isn't just it is an ideation for the I eat for the sake of ideation its ideation around the idea that I need to drive an outcome I need to have athletes that are better prepare for the next game who can recover faster who are stronger and can you know it can play through a longer point of the season here we are in March Madness and we know that by the way that the teams that tend to rise to the top are the teams that have gone through a more rigorous schedule played tougher teams right they're better prepared for this and it's really hard for a mid-major team to get better prepared because they're playing a bunch of lollipop teams in their own conference so it's it's ideas really don't excite me ideation does around an environment that allows me to test ideas quickly fail fast in order to find those you know variables or metrics those data sources it just might be better predictors of performance yeah I like the idea of acting quickly failing quickly and learning quickly right you have this loop and what happens is and then I think every strand coach in the world is probably guilty of this is we get an idea and we just apply it you go home you know I think eccentric trainings this great idea and we're going to do an eccentric training block and I just apply it to my athletes and you don't know what the hell happened because you don't have any contextual metrics that you base your test on to actually learn from so you at the day go I think it worked you know they jump high but you're not comparing that to anything right they jump they've been the weight room for three months my god I hope they jump higher I hope they're stronger like I can sit in the weight room probably get stronger for three months and my thought is but let's have context and it's um I call them anchor data points they were always reflecting back on so for example if I have a key performance metric where I want to jump high I'll always track jumping high but then I can apply different interventions eccentric training power training strength training and I can see the stress response of these KPIs so now I've set an environment that we have our charter still there my charter being I'm going to improve my athletic development and that's my goal I'm basing that charter on the KPI of jumping high so key performance indicator of jumping high now I can apply different blocks and interventions with that anchor point over and over again and the example I give is I don't come home and ask my girlfriend how she's doing once every month I ask her every day and that's my anchor point right and I might try different things I might try cookie and I might try making dinner I might do the dishes I might stop forgetting our dates I might actually buy groceries for once well maybe she gets happier then I'll continue to buy groceries maybe I'll remember it's her birthday March 30th I remember that that's my put it on there right and so but the idea is we have in life the way life works we have these modular points where we call anchor points where we were self-reflect and we reflect off of others and we understand our progress in our own life environment based on these anchor points and we progress and we apply different interventions I want this job maybe I'll try having this idea outside of here maybe I'll play in a softball league and we're always reflecting it's not making me happier is that making me feel fulfilled and I don't understand why we don't take what we do every day and like subconsciously and apply it into the sports science world but lava is because it happens unconsciously because that's how our body has learned to evolve we have anchor points I want to survive I want to have kids lots of kids strong kids and I and I die so my kids can have my food and that's what we want as a body right your bison care about anything else and so that's why you walk with a limp after you get hurt you don't want perfect again it's a waste of energy to walk perfect right you can still have kids with a limp I hate to break it to you right we're not running from animals anymore and so we have all these anchor points in life let's apply that same model now and like you said it's like design thinking and actually having that architecture to outline it whether it's in that hypothesis canvas to force us to now consciously do it because we're not just interacting with ourselves now we're interacting with other systems other nodes of information to now have to work together in use in to achieve our company's charter interesting max there's a lot of a lot of key points in there the one that strikes me is measurement John Smail at Procter & Gamble I was there you still I say you are what you measure and you measure what you reward that was his way of saying as an organization that the compensation systems are critical and the story just walked through about what Kelsey right and what you guys are doing and how you increase your your happiness level right now here's the damnest your work I mean that is that is how you're rewarded right if you are rewarded by happiness and so you you learn to measure if you're smart right that you don't miss birthdays that you do dishes you you you help up around the house you do things and when you do those things the happiness meter goes up and when you don't do those things happiness meter goes down and you know because you're you're you're probably pulling not just once a day but as you walk by her throughout the day are on a weekend you're you're constantly knowing right if if you're liking your mom you know when mom's not happy you don't need to be a day to sign this and know mom's not happy and so then you you know you re engineer about okay what did I do wrong that causes unhappiness right and so life is a lot of there's a lot of life lessons that we can learn that we can apply to either our business our operations or sports whatever it might be that your your profession is in about the importance of capturing the right metrics and understanding how those metrics really drive you towards a desired outcome and the rewards you're gonna receive from those outcomes yeah and with those it's the right metrics right that's what not metrics the right metrics if I want to know if someone was happy I wouldn't go look at the weather I wouldn't you know check gas prices especially if I'm curious they're happy with me well maybe they might reflect if they're happy in general if they're happy with me right now I'm contextualizing I'm actually trying to look at I know a little bit more about what I should look at I don't know everything and so you might have metrics that you say you know I know science says this metric is good this metric is good maybe we want to explore of these couple of metrics over here because we think that either aid they're related to one of these metrics or they related to the main outcome itself and that gives you a way to then I have these key and core metrics that's not stacking the deck but it's no one you're gonna get insights out of it and then I have these exploratory metrics over here but you're gonna allow me then to dive and explore elsewhere and if you're a company those can be trade secrets they can be proprietary information if you're a trainer it can be ways to learn how different athletes adapt to make yourself better and again we're talking about a company and we're talking about trainer there's no difference when it comes to trade secrets right trainers keep their trade secrets and companies keep their trade secrets and as we talk about this it's really easy to see how these two environments where they're talking about company athletic development sports science personal training health and wellness are really universally governed by the same concepts because life itself is typically governed by these concepts and when we're playing those kind of home iterations to it you can really begin to quickly learn what's going on and whether or not those metrics that you we're good ARCA and whether or not you can learn new metrics and from that max you raise an interesting question or made a point here that's I might be very different in the sports world than it is in the business world and that is the ability to test and what I mean by that is you know the business world is full of concepts like a bee testing and see both custody and simulations and things like that when you're dealing with athletes individually I would imagine it's really hard to test athlete a with one technique and athlete B with another technique when both these athletes are trying to maximize their performance capabilities in order to maximize you know the money there can they can they can generate how do you deal with that so yes no one wants to get the shitty program yes that's correct yeah for the most part people don't and this I'll take people don't test like that and but here's my solution to us I think being a critic without solutions called being an asshole my solution to that is making it very agile and so we're not going to be able to you know test group a versus group B but what you can do if you're a coach and you have faith in because there are a lot of programs coaches use coaches probably use you know every offseason they might try a new program so there's no real difference in all honesty to try a new program on you know these seven athletes versus and then try a different one that you also trust on these seven athletes and part of that comes from the fact that we have science and evidence to show that both these programs are really good right but there's no one's actually broken down the minutiae of it and so yes you probably could do a and B testing because you have faith in both programs so it's not like either athletes getting the wrong program they're both getting programs that are going to probably elicit an outcome of performing better but who wants to perform the best the second asks the second aspect would be what kind of longitudinal data that you can collect very easily to understand typical progression of athletes for example if you coach and you coach for eight years you'll have you know eight different freshman classes theoretically and you'll begin to understand how a freshman typically progresses to a sophomore in what their key performance indicators typically trend ass and so you can now say okay last year we did this this year we do this I'm gonna see if my freshman class responds differently is this going to give us the perfect answer absolutely not no but without data you're just another person with an opinion that's not my quote I stole that quote but it's true because if we don't try and audit ourselves and try to understand the process of how is someone developing then we're just strictly relying on confirmation bias I mean my program was great you know Pat some guys in the back that jumped higher and we did awesome if we're truly into understanding what's best then we'll actually try and you know measure some of these progress some of this some of these KPIs over time in the example I give and it's unfortunate and fortunate I don't mean anything bad by this either we're on a salary right and so what happens when you're on a salary is no matter really what happens assuming you're doing your job you're gonna keep your job but if you look at a start-up a startup has one option and that's to make money or go out of business right they don't really have the luxury of oh we're just gonna you know hang out and not saying coaches hang up or not we're just gonna you know keep this path we're going on as a coach you know how do I apply a similar model well I start up the bank my startup is you can go from worth zero dollars to worth a hundred you know million two billion dollars in one year at the coach we don't have that same environment because we're not producing something tangible which doesn't always it doesn't have the same capitalistic Drive right the invisible hand pushing us the same way the free market does with you know devices and so we don't always follow the same path that these startups have done yet that same path and same model might provide better insights so max you've hit something I found very interesting confirmation bias if if you don't take the time before you execute a test understand the variables that you're gonna test what happens is if you after the test is over you go back and try to triage what the drivers were that impact and confirmation bias and revisionist history and all these other things that make humans really poor decision-makers get in the way and so but before as a coach I would imagine before as a coach what you'd want to do is is set up ahead of time we're gonna test the following things to see if they have impact by thoroughly like the hypothesis development canvas right they'll really understand against what you're really going to test and then when you've done that test you you will you would have much more confidence in the results of that test versus trying to say wow Jimmy Jimmy jumped two inches higher this year thank God what did he do let's figure out and revision it wasn't what he ate was it where he slept oh he played a lot of video games that must be it he is the video games made him jump higher right so it's I think a lot of sports in particular even more than the business for a lot of sports is based on on heuristics and gut feel it's run by a priesthood of former athletes who are were great because of their own skills and capabilities and it maybe had very little do with her development and I don't want to pick on Michael Jordan but no Michael Jordan was notoriously a poor coach and a poor judge of talent he made some of the most industries when the worst draft choices industry has ever seen and that's because he mistakenly thought that everybody was like him that he revision history about well what made me great were the following thing so I'm gonna look for people like that instead of reversing the course and saying okay let's figure out ahead of time what makes what will make you a better plant player and then trying these tests across a number of different players to figure out okay which of these things actually had impact so sports I think has gotten much better Moneyball sort of opened that people's eyes to it now we're seeing now more and more team who are realizing that that data science is as a discipline it's not something you apply after the fact but in order to really uncover what's the real drivers of performance you have to sit down before you do the test to really understand what it is you're testing because then you can learn from the tests and and let's be honest right learning is a process of exploring and failing and if you don't try and fail enough times if you don't have enough might moments you'll never have any break to a moment and I think what people don't understand is they hear the word fail and assumed oh we did a six-month program and failed nope failure can occur in one day and that's okay right you can use for example I'm going to use this piece of technology as motivation for biofeedback to increase my athletes and tint and the amount of effort they put into the weight room that's right hypothesis you can test that in one day you print out that piece of technology the athletes don't respond well you'd have learned something now okay that technology didn't bring about the motivation I thought why was that you can do reflect and that revision because you had the infrastructure beforehand on maybe notes that you may have taken and scribbled down on your pad or observations from the coaches I am I but you know what the athletes weren't very invested because the technology took too long to set up right it wasn't the technology's fault it was the process of given technology available to act and utilize on so maybe you retest again with it set up beforehand or a piece of technology that's much easier to use and the intent increases so now you say okay it's not the technology's fault it's the application of how we're using the technology at the same time we hear a lot of things like I'm gonna take a little bit of pivot not too far though is in the baseball world you see technology being more used more and more as a tool and it's helping guide immediate actions on the field whether it's not it's a you know spin rates its arm velocities with accelerometers or some sort of measurement they decide to use but that's not necessarily collecting data that's using technology as a performance tool and I think there's a distinction between the two the two are not mutually exclusive you can still use it as a performance tool but that performance data if the infrastructure is not there to store a file and reflect and analyze it's only being used one-sided and so people think oh we're doing sports science we're doing data science because we're collecting data well that's not I can go count ants that's collecting data but that's not you know I don't unless I count ants every day and say oh my game populations decreasing right and kind of a here's a really easy way to think of it in my opinion you have cookies in the fridge right and every day I go and every week will say my mom makes cookies this doesn't happen I wish it did be very cool but I love your mom and we didn't eat cookies every week but in the fridge I go when I count how many cookies there were right and using data I'd say oh twelve cookies if there's any cookies at all I can eat right that's using technology and that moment but doing data Sciences well you know what she's gonna make you know twelve and a couple of days and I have two days left and there's six cookies I can eat three today and three tomorrow because now you're doing prescriptive analytics right because you are prescribing an action based on the information you collected it's based on historical data because you know that every seventh day the cookies are coming no I just take it as I'm using technology as a tool I might only eat one cookie and forever be leaving six cookies on the table right and so there's hid don't want to do that no we don't but we trick ourselves I think we see that not saying baseball does is but I'm saying we've see that in all domains where we use technology we say oh technology good we had someone use technology that's data science no that's not data science that's using technology to help Tripp augment training using data Sciences understand the information that happened during the training process looking at it contextually to them prescribed saying I'm going to do this exercise or this exercise based on the collection and maturation of the information so instead of cookies here I eat one cookie it's a historic Lee I know there's going to be twelve cookies every seven days I have two days left I can eat three cookies now I can hide two and tell my sister Amelia oh there's only one left very weird I don't know who ate data - well let max let me let me let me wrap up with a very interesting challenge that I think all all data scientists face wellmaybe all citizens of data science face and I say did as citizens of data science I mean people who understand how to use the results of data science not necessarily people who are creating the data science and here's here's the challenge that if you if you make your decisions just based on the numbers alone you're likely to end up with suboptimal results and the reason why that happens is because there's lots of outside variables that have huge influence especially when it comes to humans and even machines to a certain extent let me give you an example know baseball is is infatuated with cyber metrics and numbers right everybody is making decisions we're seeing this now in the current offseason you know who was signing contracts and who has given given money and they're using they're using the numbers to show you know how much is that person really worth and and organizations are getting really surgical and their ability to figure out that that person is not worth a you know a six year contract for you know 84 million dollars they're worth a two-year contract for 36 and that's the best way I'm gonna you know pay but minimize my risks and so then the numbers are really drive and allow that but it isn't just the big data that helps to make decisions and in fact I would argue the insights carried from the small data is equally important especially in sports and I think this is a challenge in other parts of the business is the numbers itself the data itself doesn't tell the full story and in particular think about how does an organization leverage the small data the observed data to really help make a better decision so right now in baseball for example in this offseason the teams became infatuated with using numbers to figure out who were they going to offer contracts to how much they were going to pay him for how long and we saw really the contracts in most cases really shrinking and value in size cuz people are using the numbers and comparing that to say always so and so it only got this you're only going to get this and numbers are great but they miss some of the smaller aspects that really differentiate good athletes from great athletes and those are things like fortitude part you know effort resilience these these kind of things that aren't you can't find that in the number so somebody's ability to a closer write who goes out there in the eighth-inning and and just has a shit performance gets beat up all over the place comes back in it still has to lead and and does that person have the guts the fortitude to go back out there after us bad eighth-inning and go do it again who can fight through when they're tired it's late in the game now you've been playing it's a you know 48 minute game you've been playing forty minutes already you've hardly had a break and you're down by two the balls in your hand a three-pointer is gonna win it what are you gonna do my numbers don't measure that it's theirs these these these other metrics out there like fortitude at heart and such that you actually can start to measure they don't show up a numbers where they come from the inside some subject matter experts to say yeah that person has fight and in fact there's one pro team that actually what they do in the minor leagues they actually put their players into situations that are almost no win because they want to see what they're gonna do do they give up or do they fight back and and you know what you again you can't batting average then tell you that if somebody's gonna get up and that you're gonna give up it's a ninth in and you think you've lost you know what I don't want that person out there and so think about in sports how do you complement the data that you can see coming off of devices with the data that experience coach can say that that person's got something extra there they got the fight they have the fortitude they have the resilience when they're down they keep battling they don't give up and you know from experience from from playing and coaching I know from playing and coaching the guy is going to give up you know who they are I don't want them on the court right it made me the best player from a numbers perspective hell if that was the case Carmelo Anthony would be an all-star every time his numbers are always great the guide lacks heart but he doesn't know how to win so think about how as an organization a sporting organization you use the metrics to help give you a baseline but don't forget about the the soft metrics the servable things that you got to tell you that somebody has something special that is an awesome way to bring this together because subject matter experts those are people who have been in the trenches who see it firsthand date is here to augment you in your decisions it's not here to override you it's not here to take your place and so in coaches fear data it's the silliest thing ever because it's giving more ammo to a gunslinger that's all it does right it's not going to win the battle right it's just the bullets you got to still aim it in fire and so when we look at it in regards to performance and athletic development all these numbers they'll never be right ever they'll never be 100% perfect but neither will you and so what we're trying to do is help your decisions with more information that you can process into your brain that you might otherwise not be able to quantify so it's giving that paintbrush not just the color red but given all the colors to you and so now you can make whatever painting you want and you're not constrained by things you can't measure yourself I could add one point max to bill on that data won't make a shitty coach good but it will make a good coach great yeah yeah I couldn't agree more well dad thank you for being on here I really appreciate and for everyone who's listening this is going on prime March Madness time and so to pull away the dean of big data from March Madness who for people listening he made his bracket on the Google cloud using AI and so it only he so I was thanking him to come here and only he would be the one to I guess take I don't say take the fun out of it but try and grid the family bracket for used it all augmented decision-making he possibly can like it the data will make won't make somebody shitty good and I'm still not good Google Cloud couldn't help me I still at the bottom of the family pool it's great to have you in I guess every minute here is worth double being that's March Madness time thanks max for the opportunity it's a fun conversation alright thank you guys for listening really appreciate it and [Music] [Applause] [Music] you

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services Intel and their ecosystem partners okay welcome back and we're live here in Las Vegas day three last interview of the day three days of wall-to-wall coverage two sets here at AWS reinvent 2018 our sixth year we've been at every reinvent except for the first one and it's been great to watch the rise I'm Jeff we're with Dean Volante we're here with Andy Jesse the CEO of AWS started this as it working backwards document years ago twelve years ago 12 half year zine years ago was when the document was written and we've launched 12 and a half years ago great to see you thanks for spending time I know you're super busy congratulations we met last week you couldn't really talk about it but boy there was so much more payload in the announcements than they were before are you happy with the results certainly three our keynote was taxing what's good impression when the keynote was over but ya know we're thrilled with it and most importantly the reason we're thrilled is because our customers are thrilled I think they just couldn't believe how much we delivered this week you know well over 100 capabilities and they were super excited about you know the storage announced was the thing is when you have millions of customers any announcement you make is going to be popular with thousands of customers so some people walked up to me and said oh I know it's not sexy but I love the storage announcements I needed the file systems I wanted that glacier deep archive some customers love the database releases with lots of customers that were excited about the machine learning piece and you know the another unsexy one where the enterprise abstractions just to make it so much easier for that type of builder who wants more prescriptive guidance to be able to get started quicker and then you know people are pretty excited that outpost too so it has you a question I'll talk Amazon speak now what what areas of the show do you feel you raise the bar this year on what was that what would you point to bar raising moments announcements well you know I think each year one of the things I like about reinvent and that we work hard on is we'd like to have we don't really want it to be a corporate event we wanted to be quirky and we want it to be authentic and we want you know we want our community to fit to have fun here while they also learn so you know Midnight Madness is for instance something we do every you know we've done the last couple years and we try radically different things and so I thought that Tatanka eating contest raised the bar is again this year was the second year in a row that we said again as political World Records and you know I thought I really liked Peter De Santis --is and Myrna Vogel's keynotes on Monday and today respectively I thought they both were fantastic and you know keep raising the bar are you over a year and you know so they're you know we're hoping I too will be something that people feel like raise the bar year over year what the house band synchronicity was quite good too you know yeah I tell you that that fan is terrific and you know and I think that again all those things I mentioned are part of what we you know think makes the event fun and quirky and different but the most important thing by far is the learning of the education and then our customers excited about not just the platform but we launched so many things do they feel like it helps them do their job better well while we're on the raising bar we've got a prop here this is the the deep racer deep the deep racer machine learning it's a toy for testing and the question comes up how old do you have to be to use this and I said hey if your kid can code machine learning good for them but talk about this because this is kind of interesting because it's fun but where'd this come from you know it came from last year when we release sage maker and we were making machine learning so much easier for everyday developers of scientists we said what can we do to give people hands-on experience because you learn things better if you actually try it and so we tried to help developers get more experience to computer vision by having a deep lens you know video camera and that was wildly popular and so as we were thinking about this year making reinforcement learning available as easily as we are in sage maker which we think is a huge potential game-changer grant Forsman learning the team kept thinking about it's great but nobody knows enforcement learning and nobody has experienced with it how can we give them experience what are ways they can get hands-on experience and that's how the deep racer car came up which is really making it simple where they can just give us a reward function with a line of Python strip and then Sage Maker will automatically train an RL algorithm and then they get to play it to the car and then race against one another and when we watched how competitive it was getting inside our own house on these RL infused cars racing each other we figured other people might find a compelling as well and I couldn't believe how many people participate yesterday yeah and then I don't know if you saw it three burners right before burners keynote the finals were really exciting to like the fact that there were some imperfections were actually made it more compelling to watch and so we had a racer Cup coming up - I met play 19 competitive yes that's going to happen yeah today was the accelerated version of the first ever deep racer League championship Cup but next year will be a full season at our 20 AWS summits the top winners in the in the deep racers you see bracer League races at each of those summits plus the top 10 vote getters in points from those summits will come here and compete for the championship Cup now you and I talked about a new persona last week when we met but now the announcements pretty clear now why this points to a whole new persona developer you got eSports on the twitch side booming heat sports is changing the game and in the whole digital sports category robotics space you got a satellite announcement this is a genre changed in digital culture and you see the AI stuff and machine learning how does the web services stack play in this new world where AI is now a service it's a whole nother paradigm shift what's your thoughts on all that well you know I mean all those areas that were continuing to expand into our areas that our customers are asking us to help them with and where there are huge opportunities for customers but where it's hard I mean if you look at space as an example if you've to interact with a satellite it's it's expensive to have to have all those satellites set up you know and those drown ground antennas set up and then you have to program them and then and you actually have to pay this fixed price instead of on-demand customers so why can't you give us access those satellites the way we consume AWS and then if you can have the ground antennas where when the data comes down from the satellite it's basically on the same premises as your AWS region so we can store the data and process the data analyze it and take action that is very compelling so that that just felt like a natural fit you know and the same thing with robotics I think that robotics is one of the most underrated areas of Technology I think robots will do all kinds of things for us at work and in a home and the tools out there to make it easy to build robotic applications and to do the simulation to deploy them and then have them work with the rest of your applications and infrastructure have been pretty primitive and so robot maker is I agree with you I think you look at the younger generation too even at the high school elementary level people are gravitating towards robotics robotics clubs are booming that maker culture goes through a whole nother level with robotic congratulation you know it's funny we had the youngest person to ever pass the AWS certification exam is a kid named Karthik nine years old passed and he was here this week actually and I got a chance to meet with him today and I said well after the certification what are you doing he said well I'm building a robot you know I'm feeling Ruben he said now with your launch of deep racer I want to try and find a way to to have the deep racer car be the eyes and the camera and the reinforcement learning for my robot nine years old yes it's gonna be a different generation with what they build John and I were talking this morning Andy at our open about you're making it harder for the critics used to be self-service only it criticized your open source contributions the hybrid strategy your turn a tick in the box is on all those outpost was I think surprised a lot of people it didn't so much surprise us that you were moving in that direction but I wonder if you could sort of talk about some of those key initiatives I know it's customer driven but wow the the TAM expansion the the customer value that you're bringing it's like a whole new era that you're entering yeah you know everything we build is you guys know we talk about all the time it's just it's driven by what customers want and so we just started over the last six months you know and really by virtue of having this partnership with VMware where we have a lot of enterprise engagement as they're moving to the cloud using VMware cloud and AWS we had a bunch of customers say it's really great I'm moving most my application of the cloud but there's some that aren't moving for a while because they got to be close to selling on-premises and I want to use AWS for this I don't want a different environment can you just find a way to put some services like compute and storage on-premises and hardware but I want to actually use the same control plan I'm going to use for the rest of AWS and I wanted to easily connect with the rest of my applications in AWS and we had you know we didn't like as you and I talked about a week or two ago we just have not like the model that's been out there so far to do this because it's you know the control plane is different the api's are different the tools are different the hardware is different the functionality is different and customers don't like it's why it's not getting much traction and we didn't want to pursue it if we didn't think it was going to be useful but we had this concept we were working on with a couple customers where they wanted compute and storage on-premises but they wanted to have that connect with all the other applications in the AWS cloud and so we have this idea that maybe this local set of compute and storage would be like a far zone from an availability zone they were using and we started thinking about that and we thought there was much more generalized idea which became outposts and so the thing that I think people are gonna love about that is for the applications that can't move easily because they need to be close slang on-premises you get AWS like real AWS compute real AWS Storage Analytics database sage maker will be in there as well but it's the same api's same control playing the same tools the same hardware we use in our data centers and it will easily connect through the same control plane to the rest of AWS the rest of the services and the rest of their applications there so and it provides a platform for a whole host of new services down I mean every customer meeting I've had in the last we made the announcement people are excited about I want to ask you guys are talking about all the innovation and new areas and we're seeing an expansion of the AWS distinct brand and things like TV advertising statcast I wonder what's behind that can you address that yeah it's a good question I mean there's kind of two different types of I'll call it TV advert Swartz we're doing one is straight-up advertising one is less so which is you know the one that less so is that a number of the sports leagues are really interested in and actually pretty sophisticated in using cloud computing and analytics and machine learning if you look at Major League Baseball now NFL and Formula One and they want to make the user experience and the viewer experience so much better and so they're building on top of AWS and then we like the ability of helping them showcase the capabilities that they're you know both the customer experience and the ml and AI capabilities then there's just a straight-up advertising them that we've been trying we tried a little bit of it last q4 and you know it's always very difficult to quantitatively measure tvf but we have a lot of ways that we try to triangulate that and we were really surprised and what looked like the positive numbers we saw for both TV as well as the outdoor media and things like in the airports and things like that and so we decided we would try it again this q4 and you know I think I would call us right now still experimenting yeah and it's very much kind of what Amazon does which is we try different things to see what resonates the see Whitefield says so so far so good and we expect to keep experimenting I I think that's a good call because the brand lift is probably there I'll see impressions get reach vehicle but you guys are in a rising tide market we're hearing co-creation VMware co-creating deep meaningful partnerships you always talk about that so it's kind of this success model of innovation to reimagine the satellite Lockheed Martin a partnership this seems to be a new way to do business in this rising tide how are you guys getting the word out education people want to know more this is a big kind of movement yeah well you know I think that if you looked at the first several years of AWS I was always surprised when I would go see enterprises and they would have no idea that Amazon was doing anything in the cloud even though we had the only cloud offering at the time so I think if you compare where we were a few years ago to today there's you know gigantic awareness relatively speaking but I still think that there are so many majority of workloads still live on premises I mean we have a twenty seven billion dollar revenue run rate business it's growing forty six percent year-over-year and yet we're still at the early stages of the meet of enterprise of public sector adoption in the u.s. you go outside the US where there twelve to thirty six months behind depending on the country in the industry and sometimes it feels like you know like Groundhog's Day well you guys are doing regions out there Italy as was announced yeah you're expanding very fast globally can you talk about that real quick yeah it's it's a you know we've had customers from 192 countries using AWS for many many years but they've been using AWS in regions outside of their country usually because there are a lot of workloads that could stand that latency and where the data doesn't have to be on natural soil but increasingly if you want to help customers get done what they want to and serve the broader array of their applications you have to have regions in their country both so that they have lower latency to their end users and because the data sovereignty laws which are getting really more rigid rather than more flexible let me ask you a question about competition you you said I can't members on the cube or in person there's no compression reach out gorilla for experience and time elastic economies with scale when you have copycat people trying to copy Amazon how do you talk about some of those things that are those diseconomies of scale what are the points that customers should look at when they say okay I got someone else is talking cloud Amazon's got years of experience ahead of the competition more services what do you talk about what do you point to you it's not about slimming the competition but what is the diseconomy of scale to try to match the trajectory of Amazon yeah it's it's a bunch of things you know first of all it's operational performance you know a lot of the hardest lessons you learn and operating of scale only happen when you get to that level of scale and you know there's some events that we see sometimes elsewhere we look at that and then we read the post-mortem we say oh yeah 2011 you know we remember they went through that I don't wish it on anybody but when you have a business at several times larger than the next or providers combined you just said a different level of scale and you've learned lessons earlier I also think that the reason that we continue to have both so much more functionality and innovate at a faster clip and seem to get capabilities that customers want is because we have so many more customers than anybody else you know a lot of times and this is happening all week to where customers will say to me I can't believe that you knew that I wanted that and I always say it's because you told us yeah it's not like we're Nostradamus you've told us that and so when you have so many more customers and when they feel free to give you feedback and when you've built good mechanisms like we have to get that feedback from the field to the product builders it means there's this real flywheel of getting you know getting more customers leads to more feedback leads to more features leads to better functionality where there's a network effect from being on the platform with all those other customers and all those industries I wonder if you could add some color to a premise that we've put forth on your edge strategy so what you guys you know we do a lot of these shows and a lot of the IOT and edge strategies that we've seen from traditional IT players what you call the old guard have fallen flat in our opinion because it's a top-down approach it reminds us of the Windows Phone it just didn't work and it's not going to work as their operations technologies people we see what you've announced here as a Bottoms Up approach you developing an application platform to build secure and manage apps for those folks right at the edge I wonder if you could add some color to that and some thoughts on your edge strategy yeah I mean again for us if we don't have some top-down strategy that you know that I think is grandiose it's just what customers want and so we have so many customers who have all these devices at the edge and all these assets at the edge and they said to us well the first problem I have I want to get this data into the cloud and then I want to do analytics item we say ok well how can we help they say well the first thing is I don't even know how to translate this data from the device protocol to just being able to operate in the cloud so that's the first problem we go solve well then people say ok now I can get it in but I actually I need security like you know if you look at the amount of security options for these edge devices it's a new field you know let that dine attack that took a lot of the internet down a couple years ago came from you know a device on the edge and so that's why you know we built you know a security capability and people say well okay now you've made it so I can run devices but if I'm gonna run thousands of devices I need a way to manage all those devices of scale and we build telling to manage two devices and people say well ok it's great that I can do it and device is big enough that have a CPU but what about when they don't have a CPU you know they have just a microcontroller and that's why we built the our toss piece and you know the list kind of keeps going people so this is great now that I get all this data in the cloud I can take all these analytics actions but on my device sometimes I don't want to make the round trip to the cloud so can you give me a way to use the same programming model and and pick which triggers I want to take action with cloud versus those that want to take on the device itself which was what green grass was so all of those pieces is not some kind of top-down master plan as much as we know that customers have all these devices the edge that they want to use that data analyze that data take action on that data and send it back in multiple ways and you have you have the cloud platform to give them the services to make the tools the right tools for the right job yeah that's the main team yeah so I got to ask you about one of the big controversies that we don't think that's that controversial but the chips that you announced new Amazon Web Services front microprocessors the chips yeah do two of them talk about them and Intel's also a partner a lot of people are talking about this in the press yeah Intel Amazon chips well that annapurna acquisition is Norton they bear fruit was 2015 I think yeah early it really the annapurna team is fantastic and they've added a huge amount of value to AWS and Amazon as a whole you know the first thing I would say is that Intel is a very deep partner of AWS and will be for a long time I mean that that's not changing and we've been a long thought that they were gonna be lots of different processors out there and and different ones that did different things at different price points and so like a lot of other companies we've been interested in arm for a long time and for a while it wasn't mature enough and the technology is matured and we found a way in in building our own ARM chip with graviton where we think we can allow customers to run a lot of their scale out generalize were close but up to 45 percent less expensively and so when you find a value proposition that compelling for customers you need to do it and you know as I mentioned in the keynote yesterday when we were talking about inference we feel like a lot of the world has been solvent for training and not solvent as much for inference yet and we've made training so much easier with the things that we've built in AWS over the last couple years but inferences where most of the cost is gonna be and so elastic inference we think it you know will allow people to be much more efficient in how they use them for use and how they spend money but when you've got the type of workloads at scale and productions that use whole GPUs or that need that low latency where you need it on the hardware of a chip that's optimized for inference they is faster that's more cost effective that's high throughput we can get hundreds of tops on it and thousands to you ban them together he's gonna totally change the game for imprison and so that was something that wasn't easy for us to find elsewhere and when we have team fortunately they could build it and it's the combination of the elastic service of inference with the chip that makes the difference it specialism there so it's not like I mean you can use each on their own and we expect they'll be a bunch of customers who will use each on their own but there will be an opportunity to use those in combination that will be very powerful it comes down to really deeply understanding the customer problem again at night training versus inference and everybody talks about the training right the the technical challenge you got a child is the internet and tells gonna make a lot of money as it stands expanding market banding so they'll get their share the chips get taped out their con a couple year to three year life cycles and everything starts anew every time somebody's building a new chip so I think it's actually great for customers of all sorts that there's multiple processors that are possible but we will have a deep relationship with Intel forever I think so I want to talk about one of the cool demos you did on stage not a lot you did customer did f1 that was a super cool I love that imagery because it said an analogy of high performance competitive racing that can be applied to this play sports anything and the level of accuracy that they need in the real time time series kind of encapsulates a lot of the cloud value talk about the f1 analytic thing are you guys gonna sponsor these events there's a relationship there give us what the picture of what's going on there you have a deep relationship with Formula One where they're using our platform to to do their all their digital properties as well as their analytics and machine learning and it was super cool to see Ross demo the way that they're changing the user experience for for viewers and you know it's it's it's an amazing sport you know it's not watched as much maybe in the US but outside the US that is the motorsport and the way that they're changing the experience the way that they're able to assess what's happening with drivers and with cars and then predict what's actually happening and make the viewer feel like they're actually either in the cockpit or actually in the pit itself with it with the crew is it's really exciting and it's non err to be a partner so you do some events they'll get the cube they're these these big time again there's a tech angle now and everything it's a plug for you to be at the they have one event cloud demócrata you're hitting now new industries I mean this is the thing right I mean it's disrupting every industry I mean what aren't you disrupting I mean what areas do you see that yet aren't coming online to the cloud I don't see industry segments at this point that aren't moving to the cloud I would have told you 18 to 24 months ago that I felt like financial services was moving a lot more slowly than then I thought they should or you know probably healthcare also was a little bit slower but both of those industry segments are moving very aggressively well it's taking longer they're high-risk industries and the digital transformation has it occurred fast enough but it's coming and there's regulatory pieces that they legitimately have to sort through and you know we have just if you look at financial services as an example we have a pretty significant team that does nothing but work with our partners to help them with the regulatory bodies because what we find is when we go with a customer to a regulator and show them a real use case and then how it will be done in a DOP is the regulator says oh well that's more secure that you do on-premises and so it's just an education process and you know I think that's been helpful in it and I'll get final questions for you what have you observed here at reinvent Houston glad people talking so you get a lot of feedback actually to clopped two-part question because I was asked the final final question so I'll just get it out front what are people missing of all the announcements you've had a lot of signal in there a lot of a lot of announcements what are what is something that you've observed that you think should be amplified that people might have not overlooked but like you feel like it's more important to sign the light on we'll start with that one well you know it's a little hard for me to tell this moment just because there have been so many in such a short amount of time and and if we just look a little bit at the coverage it seems and if I take just as inputs they comments and and the questions from customers it's been pretty broadly understood and people are pretty excited and as I said different segments have kind of their favorite areas but I feel like people are pretty excited by the breadth of capabilities you know I think that if I pick two in particular I would say that people are still in the machine learning space people are blown away by how much we provided are all three layers of the stack I think people are still getting their heads around which layer of the stack am I gonna participate at you know I mean the one that probably has the most potential for most companies is that middle layer because most companies have gobs of data and there are jewels in that data and if you can enable their developers their everyday developers to be able to build models and get at the predictive value and add value that has huge impact for companies moving forward but most modern companies with technology functions will use all three layers of the stack and so just getting their arms around which layers of the stack they should take advantage of first and having the personnel to be able to do it and we're making that much easier with things like sage maker and then you know I think if you look at the blockchain space I think that that is just one of those spaces that has a huge amount of buzz people talk a lot about it exactly sure sometimes what they're gonna do but but I also think that a lot of people said to us that breaking those into those two real customer jobs to be done and then having a great solution that does each of those jobs really well is not only something that AWS does all the time that makes it easier for them but it also made it easier for a lot of them to understand that a lot of customers said to us you know that qld be that ledger database with a single trust of central authority for my supply chain that's what I need for my supply chain I don't need all the complexity of a blockchain framework and then there were a lot of other people said oh yeah that is what I want I wanted to decentralize trust between peers but I just needed a way easier way to manage hyper ledger fabric and etherium so I think those are two that people like are so interested and still figuring out how to use as expansively as I think they hope they will Andy thanks so much for your time and I want to just say watching you guys in the past six years has been a fun journey together but watching the execution you guys have done an amazing job of keeping your eye on the ball and being humble but being proud and loud at the same time so congratulations and you know guns blaring in 2019 what's your top pray all right besides listening to the customers what's your top 20 19 we know you listen to cut oh my gosh we have so many things that we're doing in 2019 but you know we have a lot of delivery in front and in front of us I mean as much as we launched 140 unique things over the last six to eight business days and yet I tell you to stay tuned the rest of 2018 we have more coming and then in nineteen you'll you should expect to see more few capabilities more database capabilities more machine learning capabilities more analytics capability look a lot I could spend all night John we don't need it we don't need a post reinvent post you know traumatic announcements syndrome because just to digest it all yeah it's a lot of work looking forward to seeing how enterprises continue to make to to kind of manage their hybrid approach as they're as they're making this trend transition from on-premises to the cloud how many continue to jump on to VMware cloud an AWS how many jump onto outpost so I think that that transition and helping customers do that easily is something on here of course we'll be commentating and pontificating on that for the next year thanks for your time I really should have me and I appreciate that you guys come at regular pay our pleasure okay winding down that's the last interview here wall to wall covers two cents 110 interviews in the books we'll have 500 video assets total blog post on Sylvia angle calm that's reinvent closing down 2018 thanks for watching [Music]

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS Reinvent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel and their ecosystem partners. >> And welcome to Las Vegas, we're in the Sands now for AWS re:Invent day one, here for all three days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, exclusive CUBE coverage here. I'm John Walls with Justin Warner and John Ferrier. Gentlemen, good to see you, it's been a while since we had the band together so it's good to be back. >> Well we can reinvent, everyone is going to run the marathon, it's a hard hitting show, it's the wall-to-wall coverage. Started with what they call Midnight Madness kind of played off March Madness. Sunday at midnight kicks off the show, they have a party that goes well into the evening, to get the launches out there. >> I don't want to ask where you were at that time. >> I was actually coming home from Phoenix, from a family trip but I'll be coming this year but this even, wall-to-wall coverage, here at The Cube, three days of live broadcast. It really kicked off yesterday, there's evening events, 52 000 people, it is packed, it feels like you're walking through Disneyland on the busiest day, really is crazy. A ton of networking, a lot of customers. This is Amazon's biggest show, it's really awesome and it's a great way to see the formation of the industry. So it really is the industry Super Bowl event as Dave (mumbles) says and watching how people form, how their posture is, what their messaging is and our job, we're going to split through that this week, we're going to extract from the messaging and the conversations, get the story, get to the truth, shortcut to the data and should be fun. >> Well, let's talk about the head coach here in AWS. You've had a chance to sit down with him recently. We'll hear the key note tomorrow morning but just give you a little sneak peak of what you think is coming from Mr Jassy and what do you think the message is that he wants to deliver? >> Well, we've been covering Amazon since its founding, or our founding eight years ago and seven years they started reInvent, eight years ago, we are seven years, this is our seventh year at reInvent. So we get to know Jassy So he invites me every year for a one-on-one. This year, I did it at his house. He's got a sport bar in his basement. Tricked out sports bar, great football game was on, Chiefs against the Chargers, we watched that, two and a half hours I spent with him really kind of getting a feel for what's on his mind. How he's thinking about the business because a lot of, he's having a lot of pinch-me moments where certainly they're winning, they're blowing away field in my opinion in cloud computing. I think there's really not even a close second place although Microsoft's got the chops, they're doing their gaming, Google's got the tech and they're repositioning, you know, how does he feel? He's humble as they come and he's got the management discipline, but he was really kind of saying to me, hey, great leaders are listening to customers and he was walking back his position on hybrid cloud because clearly they're going to make some big announcements here around hybrid cloud but I got insight into his mind and he's not done and these guys are not celebrating in the end zone, they're not high fiving each other, they've got a lot of work to do and still, people are not using the cloud like they really are in their mind. I think things like Lambda and the announcements we'll be expecting to see here today is going to set the stage for a new set of apps and I think there's going to be a renaissance of software development, they recognize it, they recognize that the competition's hotter, they recognize that they got to get better and raise the bar and that's what they're doing. They have a cadens to their management style that I think is historic in this era of leadership and the likes of all the Uber scandals, Facebook, the scandals of the management team of Facebook. No one trusts corporate America. Amazon's got this execution style that kind of reminds me back in the old days, Intel had or an HP back in the day. They actually kick ass as a management team. They're focused, they're not celebrating and they're clearly guns glaring. SO they're doing the work. I still think that they see the world as still competitive, there are things out there that I think scares them, although he didn't say CNCF directly but there's things out there forming that could dis-intermediate the greatness of AWS and that's just natural competition and his philosophy, Justin is, bring it on. >> Well, I was just in China funnily enough for CNCF Cube, CNCF club native con, Cube con. The first one that they held in China and it was amazing to see what the Chinese are actually doing. So we ear a lot over here in Europe and over here in the Western world. There's a lot of conversation about Amazon and Google and Microsoft, but you never hear the words Tencent or Alibaba, they don't come up a lot and yet what Alibaba and Tencent are doing over there is amazing so I think if we're thinking about the competition in a global sense, then certainly Amazon needs to be right onto of their game because yeah, we might have some stumbles from Google as we've seen and Microsoft, still a little bit behind the plan but if you look at globally and see what's happening over there in China, there's a lot that they should be worried about. >> Well, give me a such as. When you talk about Alibaba doing things that maybe aren't happening here, for example. >> There was some amazing stuff around our AI machine learning that they were doing around grid management of renewable energy and distribution around the entire country of China. So there are things that are possible in China that are not quite as easy to do over here in the West. It's a lot easier when you have one person in charge of all of the things and they can say, we're going to go and do that. It's a little bit more, there's a lot more negotiation required over this side. >> And you think too about China as the mobile penetration is higher there and they're very data centered. You look at the United States, even in the IT world. Dell, HP's, the Oracle's of the world, the old IT guard essentially had that data but now you got data on phones, with this proximity, you've got edge of the network. The data is going to live in a lot of places and in our legacy infrastructure and IT in North America, Dell doesn't have anything to do with my phone or HP, that's just service so the old way of storing data and where data lives and how data's being used is radically changing. >> Yeah, there's a lot of stuff happening at the edge. We have some presentations on wind farms. So you have compute lives in wind farms and they're actually sampling the air and finding out what the weather patterns are like, feeding that back into central systems and they're having to design systems that are able to be deployed, the same thing, cookie cutter all over the country, distributed around the place where you've got latency and communication issues, where you've got power distribution issues. So you have to think about the way you're deploying these infrastructure, completely differently than if you centralize in one cloud or even in a data center or you're running it yourself. So they're actually thinking about things in a layered sense. So it's not just one size fits all, it's actually we need sides, multiple different sizes to fit lots of different things. >> And what, I mean John you got off the phone with 5G on the horizon. I can only imagine the exponential explosion we're going to see in data coming in from sensors and IoT, you talk about edge and faster, more, where's all that going? >> So I got a little reporter's notebook here from my meeting with Jassy and also connecting the dots what's going to be announced. There's going to be an announcement today around 11 o'clock this morning around maybe Jassy announcing new connectivity option and what you're seeing is that Amazon recognizing that IoT at the edge, Internet of Things is sensors as wind farms so this IoT is about power and connectivity. Without power and connectivity, IoT doesn't really exist. SO these new kinds of internet infrastructure data devices that need computer, you got to have power, you got to have connectivity and they might not have the worst power on a safe phone, although this is a, plenty of power on there. You want to take advantage of bigger data sets. You've got to go back to the cloud. So the cloud is becoming the brain and that's what Andy Jassy said to me, he said the cloud is going to be the brains and the edge can be, use some processing, we're going to send compute there if we need it. We don't want to move data around because latency will kill. So we're expecting Amazon to announce new services around connectivity where you can stand up things like satellites as a service and that's what's going to be announced at 11 o'clock. I just got that out there so we'll see if that's confirmed or not. (John Walls laughs) Two hours early if you watch this, don't tweet this, I'll get in trouble. >> Is that cat out of the bag. I think yeah, go ahead. >> Well you know, it's a brief guess, I heard some rumbles in the hallway but we'll see what the details are but this is a new kind of progressive thinking, this is what I love about AWS and Jassy, they're not afraid to use their scale and power to push new capabilities, not just extract ranch from customers and by standing up connectivity, this is a weak link in the equation of IoT. There's a lot of things that need power and connectivity and if you have good processing power and compute at the edge, that's going to happen. So Andy's philosophy and Amazon's philosophy is consistent with Wikibon research and most analysts have discussed in this strand that you want to move compute to the edge, not move data back to the cloud. This is fundamentally the shift that's going on with services like Lambda, you can power up things in hundreds of milliseconds versus an instance of ten seconds. This is changing the software development paradigm. This is a tailwind, this is going to power new work loads so you see Amazon recognizing this, increasing power compute to the edge, offering connectivity ops where there isn't any. Making things faster with compute and then moving up the stack. This is going to be a big part of this show. We're expecting to see if Amazon is going to move up the stack. Aurora, Sagemaker and levels of services that they're going to allow developers, new kind of software development where truly the dream of (mumbles) of not knowing anything about the infrastructure could be realized. >> That is a pretty big shift for Amazon 'cause they've always been talking about themselves as undifferentiated heavy lifting as one of their analysts told me it some years ago. That was their idea, was that we're just going to be the utility service that is the one true way that you should use it and it will be ubiquitous in the same way that you have power as a utility, you rent it and you just use it and you build other things on top of that. So it's interesting that we're now starting to see that Amazon themselves are building things on top of what they've already created in the same way that S3 was build on top of EC2, so now we're seeing this layering effect of we built the underlying technologies and now we're going to start putting extra value technologies on top of that and that's where to start to see things like as a services, serverless Lambda being built on top of all this underlying stuff. We're going to start seeing some really interesting stuff coming form Amazon. >> I'd like to hear from you guys, you've talked about what you think AWS is going to talk about. What do you want them to talk about. What do you want to hear form them this week, whether it's a challenge they have to take on or whether it's about the competitive landscape what is it between the two of you that's you'd like to hear them address. >> I would like to hear their position on the software development paradigm around moving between clouds. I know they don't like the word multi-cloud, hybrid cloud's the word that they choose. They don't actually use the word multi-cloud, hybrid cloud is their word. They see the world in a very specific way which I don't disagree with. On premises with clouds, operations and seamless consistency around both, how that works and what is means for the customer is what I want to know. WHat's the switching cost involved, what's the benefit to customers, it's going to be a lock inspect. I want to hear about some of the migration stories, I want to hear them talk about migrations. I don't think migration to the cloud has been successful for Amazon as they had hoped. I think when you look at what's going on in the enterprise, legacy workloads that run payroll around mainframes, they're going to stay there and no-one's moving that to the cloud 'cause why would I want to rewrite that. So this is the interesting thing. So I want to hear them talk about how they're going to handle a workload that's on premises, that's legacy, that's part of a production mission critical application and how that's going to work with new services via APIs. Stable data, things of that nature. I want to hear how they're going to handle containers and Kubernetes, 'cause this is going to be the key linchpin between moving data and services via APIs and web services, this is the holy grail. They can address that in a clear way, I would be happy and I expect them to see them do things like put a VM container around containers. A lot of competitive strategy going on, so I'm trying to look for the chess moves on the board. Kubernetes and containers is a big one. >> The customer, in terms of helping customers, I would actually like to see, I think similarly, see Amazon relax we are the one true way message that they've been hammering pretty hard for a long, long time. If you do cloud, it has to be us and we're really the only the cloud that exist. That's caused a lot of issues inside particularly enterprise customers who have, as you say, they've got legacy applications, or we'd like to call them heritage applications. They work, they've been debugged, they're sold applications. Rewriting those adds a lot of risk and a lot of IT projects found, more than 50% of them fail. SO if you're going to say, oh you have to completely rewrite everything and take it all to serverless, if you're going to do anything cloud, that adds a huge amount of risk onto the IT portfolio. So for an enterprise, or anyone who's actually been a successful company already, not the new startups, I'd say yes, brand new, you can start green, field's awesome, but if you have any kind of successful company already, you need to have a migration part. You need to understand it's appropriate to put these things, net news should start in cloud, great. What about the stuff that we've already got that's debugged, how do I get that to talk to cloud and how do I not end up with a bifurcated organization where I've got this legacy stuff that sits in the cupboard which no-one want to touch and play with and I have everyone doing all the new shiny stuff over here and then I end up killing my business because I have no migration part. >> And one final thing and then we got to go wrap up and get started for the day. I want to see more on the net new work loads because I think that is going to be a key part. The application developers are going to be where the power source is. New breeded developer, classic IT experts emerging, changing to devops and kind of a new community, open source community kind of personas them all evolving. So development, of our environment changing with developer persona, IT experts are changing to devops and the role of open source communities, I want to see more of that. At the end of the day, I want to see how Amazon thinks and how their customers are working with their data. Because if they have that Heritage app or legacy or an edge or wherever, the data is going to be a critical design component for the next generation. So that's what I'm looking for, what's going on with the data and trying to survive the slew of announcements. >> Big data, big topics and we have 40 000 of our best friends here to share their knowledge with you. Well, we're not going to have all of them, but we're going to have a lot. Wall-to-wall coverage here, AWS re:Invent kicks off in just a few moments, you are watching The Cube live from Las Vegas. 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>> Lisa: I'm Lisa Martin with theCUBE. We're on the ground at Google for the 6th Annual CloudNOW Top Women in Cloud Awards. Very excited to be joined by award winner and CUBE alumni Erica Windisch, founder and CTO of Iopipe. Welcome back to theCUBE, Erica. >> Erica: Thank you. Great to have you here, and congratulations on being one of the top women in Cloud. >> Yeah, of course. >> Tell me, when you heard about that you were being recognized, what did that mean to you and where you are in your career? >> Well, oh gosh, I mean it really meant, it was really big for me. I actually wasn't really expecting it. I think I was nominated and I totally forgot. I think somebody had mentioned to me that they were nominating me and I had no idea about it. I totally forgot about it. But I mean, for me it's just so validating because as much as I've, well one, because I've done a lot of interesting things in Cloud and in tech, but I've never really gotten a lot of recognition for that. And also, just recognition, I mean to be quite honest, I'm transgender. So the fact that I was recognized as a woman, Top Ten Women in Cloud Computing, was extra important and special for me. >> Oh, that's awesome. So tell me about your path to being where you are now. Were you always interested in computers and technology, or is that something that you kind of zigzagged your way to? >> Yeah, well, it was one of these things I guess I had some interest. When I was a child, we had BASIC exercises printed in our math books but our teachers never went over it. So I got kind of interested and I would read through those like those little appendums in my math books, and I would start teaching myself BASIC. And I picked up a Commodore 64 and it didn't work and I taught myself BASIC, more BASIC with those manuals. And I just had these little tiny introductions to technology and just self-taught myself everything. Eventually using a high school job to buy myself books and just teaching myself from those books. Managed to grab Linux on some floppy disks, installed it and tried to figure out how to use it. But I didn't really have lot of mentors or anything that I could really follow. At best there were other kids at school who were into computers and I just wanted to try and do what they were doing or do better than they were doing. >> I love that, self-taught, you knew you liked this and you were not afraid to try, "Hey, let me teach myself." That's really inspiring, Erica. >> Yeah. >> So, speaking of inspiring, tell me about the Iopipes story. So you're a TechSource company, tell us a little bit about TechSource, what that investment in IOpipe means. >> Yeah, so, I started, I guess I first started IOpipe two years ago. And I found the co-founder Adam Johnson, who joined me. And we applied for Techstars, got in, and that was like the first validation that we had from outside of ourselves and maybe one angel investor at that time. And that was a really big deal because it really helped accelerate us, give us validation, allow us to make the first hire, and they also taught us a lot about how to refine our elevator pitch, and how to raise money effectively. And then we ended up raising money, of course. So with the end of Techstars we had a lot of visibility, and that helped us raise two and a half million dollars seed round. >> Wow, so a really good launching pad for you. >> Yes, yeah. >> That's fantastic. So tell us a little bit more about the technology, I know that there's AWS Lambda, we just got back from re:Invent last week, so tell us a little bit more about exactly what you guys do. >> Oh yeah, so what we do is we provide a service that allows developers to get better insights into their application, they get observability into the application running a Lambda, as well as debugging and profiling tools. So you can actually get profiling data out of your Lambda and load that into Google DevTools and get Flame Graphs and dig in deep into which function called which function inside of each function call, so every Lambda invocation you can really dig down and see what's happening. We have things like custom metrics and alerts for that. So you can, for instance, we built this bot. I built it in two days. It's a Slack bot that, if you put an image in a Slack, it will run it through Amazon Rekognition and tell you, describe the objects in it, and describe it. So, for instance, if you have visually impaired members of your team, they can find out what was in the images that people pasted. I built it in only two days, and I could use our tool, let's say to extract how many objects were found in that image, whether or not a specific object was found in that image, and then we can create alerts around those, and do searches based on those, and get statistics out of our product on the data that was extracted from those images. So that was really cool, and we actually announced that feature, the profiling feature, at Midnight Madness at re:Invent so it was like the opening ceremony for re:Invent. It was just us, Andy Jassy and Shaquille O'Neal. >> Lisa: What? >> Yeah, and we launched our product, and we did the demo of this Slack bot, and it was a lot of fun. >> Wow! So you were there last week, then? >> I was there, we were there last week, and we were actually the first, myself, my co-founder and one of our engineers were up there and we were the first non-AWS speakers at the entire arena, it was really amazing. >> Wow, amazing. Congratulations. >> Thank you. >> So with all the cool announcements that came out last week on Lambda, Serverless, even new features that were announced for recognition, how does that either change the game or maybe kind of ignite the fire under you guys even a little bit more? >> Well I think one of the biggest announcements relative to us was Cloud9. And we knew that this was going to happen, Amazon acquired them a year ago, a year and a half ago, but they finally launched it. And they really doubled down on providing a much better experience for developers of Lambda to make it easier for developers to really build and ship and run that code on Lambda, which provides a much tighter experience for them so that they can on-board into things like IOpipe more easily. So that was really exciting, because I think that's really going to help with the adoption of Lambda. And some of the other features like Alexa for work is really interesting. It will probably just again, a lot of Alexa apps are built on top of Lambda, so all of these are going to provide value to my own company because we can tell you things like, "Well, how are your users interacting "with those Alexa skills?" But I think it's just generally exciting because there's just so many really cool, I mean, I don't know how many things they announced at this re:Invent that were just really amazing. Another one I really loved was Fargate, because I mean I came from Docker, I used to be a maintainer of the Docker engine and something that I was pushing for at that time in OpenStack and other projects, was the idea of just containers completely as a service without the VM management side of things, because with like ECS, you had to manage virtual machines, and I was like, "Well that is a little, like, "I don't want to manage virtual machines, "I just want Amazon to give me containers." So I was really excited that they finally launched Fargate to offer that. >> So the last question in our last couple of minutes here, tell me about the culture and your team that you lead at IOpipe. You were saying before, you know, when you were a kid you were really self-taught and very inspired by your own desire to learn, but tell me a little bit about the people that work for you and how you help inspire them. >> Oh gosh, well I think first of all, we are, right now we're nine people. I would say about four or five of us are under-represented minorities in tech in one way or another. It's really been fantastic that we've been able to have that level of diversity and inclusion. I think part of that is that we started very diverse. You know, a lot of companies will say, well, one of their problems with not having enough diversity is that they hire within their networks, well we hire within our networks, but we started very diverse in the first place. So that organic growth was very natural and very diverse for us, whereas that organic pairing growth can be problematic if you don't start in a very diverse place. So I think that's been really great, and I think that the fact that we have that level of diversity and inclusion with our employees is kind of inspiring, because a lot of workplaces just aren't like that in tech. It's really hard to find, and granted we're only nine right now. I would really hope that we can keep that up and I would like to actually make our workforce even more diverse than it is today. But yeah, I don't know, I just think it's fantastic and I want what we're doing to be a role model and an inspiration to other companies and say, "Yes, you can do this." And also the work people in the workforce, yes, you can be a woman in tech, yes, you can be trans in tech, yes, you can be non-binary in tech. I am binary, but we have non-binary people in staff. And, I don't know, I hope that's inspiring to people and also myself being a transgender founder, I maybe know one or two other people who are transgender founders, it's very uncommon. And I hope that also is an inspiration for people. >> Well I think so, speaking for myself I find you very inspiring. You seem to be someone that's really known for thinking, "I'm not afraid of anything. "I'm just going to try it. "Starting a company, I'm going to try it." And it sounds like you guys are very purposefully building a culture that's very inclusive, and so I think that, as well as your recognition as one of the Top Women in Cloud, be proud of that, Erica. That's awesome. >> Thank you. >> And you got to meet Shaquille O'Neal? >> I got to meet Shaquille O'Neal, yeah. >> I've got to see the photo. (laughs) >> Yeah. >> Well thank you so much Erica for joining us back on theCUBE. Congratulations on the award, and we look forward to seeing exciting things that you do in the future. >> Okay great, thank you. >> I'm Lisa Martin on the ground with theCUBE at Google for the CloudNOW Top Women in Cloud Awards. Thanks for watching, bye for now.

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering AWS reInvent 2017, presented by AWS, intel, and our ecosystem of partners >> Hello everyone, welcome to the Cube here, live in Las Vegas for Amazon web services, AWS annual conference reInvent 2017 and I'm John Furrier here, the co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media, co-host of the Cube. We are here for our fifth year in a row as Amazon Web Services continues to go on a thundering pace of product announcements and massive growth and we're here with two live sets, we're growing so much, there's so much action, there's two cubes, double barrel shotgun of innovation and data we're sharing with you, go to SiliconAngle.com, check out all the stories, all the news and we're hear kicking it of with an analysis, getting ready for tomorrow, the big day, today's officially the partner day, Sunday night they had Midnight Madness, the first ever event for Amazon, where they used the March Madness, kind of copied Cube Madness if you follow the Cube and they do a little preview, I'm here with Justin Moore and Keith Townsend, two great analysts in the community, guys and co-host this week at the cube. First of all thanks for co-hosting the Cube this week and thanks for coming by >> It's a pleasure >> Nice being here with my 50,000 closest friends (laughs) >> It's so good to have you guys here, one, the hosting but more importantly more Cloud thinking men but we've been watching this evolution, both when the Amazon start, I know you both have been involved in the game, in the Cloud watching it and participating but watching just like the tipping point, you're starting to see that moment where, people are calling this the Vmware 2008 moment, Where it's like oh my God its kind of gone mainstream but its still got a community, can they keep that alive? Meanwhile everybody is just getting blown away by Amazon, no matter what is being said, they're clearly the leader in Cloud, Microsoft pedaling as fast as they can, cobbling together their legacy Cloud, to try to keep up. Google, a new guard company looking really good with developers but not international, not a lot of things there yet but certainly looking great and then you got everybody else. >> Keith: Is there anybody else, really? >> As Dave Alonzo would say, what horses are on the track? >> Yeah there's lots of smaller players who are calling themselves Cloud, they're much more like, manage service providers and collocation kind of things, its not really Cloud they way you would think of it from the AWS kind of perspective. >> I've been talking to a lot of Fortune 500's lately and all of their internal customers, when they describe what they want, they're describing AWS, Azure and Google compute and everything else is just not even part of the discussion >> Yeah it needs to look like AWS, that's like the bench mark so this is what it is >> Total gold standard, the bell weather, let's talk about Amazon because I was writing a post on Forbes, I posted about kind of, trying to tell the story in a way that was kind of understood by the mainstream, still not really truly understood but they're changing the game, they're just kind of minding their knitting, they're just all steam ahead, you know, why look in the rear view mirror when your top dog? Why do that but the game is changing, they're constantly introducing new stuff, serverless is the hot trend that we've been tracking, you're seeing it here, you're seeing real developer centric, customer centric announcements. Even during the analysts meeting I heard rumblings, we can't even keep up with all the news, it's so massive so just thundering pace of announcements. Where's the innovation? What's Amazon doing now? What do they gotta do to distance themselves from the field? >> It's interesting, I reckon the competitors to Amazon are actually distancing themselves from AWS, they're trying to find their own way of doing things because you cannot AWS AWS >> Keith: Rackspace learned that a couple years ago right? >> Yeah, trying to compete head on, you're gonna lose so then we see Google is pushing really really hard, machine oiling and they are in top systems, a lot of people are using them for that big data and genomics research, Microsoft is all about office 365 and their traditional enterprise applications that all of their customers today, they know and love >> Yeah so Microsoft is doing what Microsoft does, which is taking care of their enterprise customers and I think this is where AWS needs to innovate in and its not maybe a technical innovation more than a operating and sales approach to how they treat enterprise customers. Enterprise customers still I think, are struggling to this date on how to interact with AWS and AWS is still trying to figure out how do they sale and help manage enterprise accounts. >> So let's separate IT because obviously two factors are merging, the CXO which is traditional IT, which we're all familiar with and a new kind of developer model is emerging and I won't say it's developer speeds and fees, developer programs, where developers are shaping the agenda. It used to be CXO's have the cash, they drive everything. Now you got this developer mojo and I can see early signs of a cult here, where all the innovation that's come in the field, is from customers saying screw it, I don't need the big dog telling me, the old guard, the old CIO up there, I'm just gonna go do it, get out of my way, three feet in the Cloud dust, get a prototype up and running. So you guys see that dynamic, with this cultural shift, what's your thoughts? >> Cloud is a state of mind... (laughs) It's a way of operating the business, its not so much about the infrastructure, its not so much about the services that live on top of it, it's how you use them and that way of doing things that the developers like, is that they get to pick and choose their favorite tools from what they think is the best solution and a lot of the time that's been AWS and then they blend them together and they just stitch this system together based on the favorite tools that they have and that just lives in a completely different level of abstraction than what we've seen before. >> And the speed too, I mean that's just changing the game too, right? >> Well you can do that a lot faster than waiting, raise a PO, wait for three months for someone to rack ans stack a whole bunch of gear, wait for everything to clear through purchasing and then you get access to the enterprise, anointed correct thing, so we saw it the same with sales floors, where people would... sales guys would just go with a credit card and just say, yes I'll have some of that, thanks >> It's much more than a credit card, VMware worked their re-Cloud air service a couple years, said, I can take your credit card, build a data center, my son a developer, in college, I gave him that solution, he looked at it, he was like what's a load balancer, why do I need to configure a firewall, I just want to build a application man, I just want to build, I just want to code, and AWS has figured that out, how to get developers back to what they love to do, which is solving problems via code and you see it, even before the start of this show, there's a lot of hoodies and shorts at this conference, compared to the culture that we see at a lot of other and past shows. >> I find it inspirational, so couple key points, so I asked Andy Jassy, an exclusive one on one with him last Monday and I asked him, you know, he was talking and he made a comment to me and I'll tell you the story here, he says, you know, we have a conversation inside Amazon, this is Andy talking about if we were gonna start Amazon all over again, cause he tells the story about the scar tissue and all the pain they went through with S3. He says if we're going to do it all over again, we would use Lambda, and the serverless trend is interesting because now that speaks to your son's objective, I don't need routers, I don't need load balances, I don't need gear... >> What do you mean how many CPUs I need? I don't know >> What's a patch? >> You tell me, alright, yeah >> Load Linux? What's Linux? So, okay if that's the norm, the driver has to be a new programming methodology, not agile, we're talking about compose ability and a level where no one says, oh I need Oracle for that or I need Mongodb for that, there's just data bases. So a whole new things happening where this choice that used to be the religious war between vendor A or B... serverless could change the game on this >> We're just gonna end up with a new religious war I think, it's gonna be, instead of Vim versus Emacs, it's gonna be should I use Amazon Lambda or should I use Google Cloud functions, it's gonna be one of those, which programming language is the best. >> Okay old guard, new guard, it's a term that Jassy uses, I like it because I'm old, so maybe I'm old guard trying to be new guard, old guard means legacy, he's really talking about Oracle, IBM, probably say Microsoft, so move over and put them in that bucket, so new guard players, clearly Amazon, saying they're new guard, but Google's new guard in Cloud, they're not really trying to do anything legacy, they have legacy infrastructure but they're approaching a... a market from a new guard perspective. What's you guys take on old guard, new guard and do you agree with that statement and what do the old guards have to do to be cool with the new school? >> So the Cube has been at almost every major conference, this year, take an example, what some of the old guard is trying to do, NetApp is trying to get into the Cloud conversation. Google has none of that legacy concern of needing to sell boxes, you look at a solution like Kubernetes, Kubernetes has come on and taken over the container orchestration conversation because Google doesn't need to make money off of Kubernetes, they don't need it to sell more boxes, there's a bit of freedom... >> They may have moved some work loads off Amazon, don't you think? >> It's a great way to move work loads out of Amazon, AWS has joined the CNCF because they no longer have a choice in the matter, Kubernetes has won the containers war so because of that, these new school competitors can compete in ways that a HPE, Dell EMC, etc., simply can't. >> Josh I gotta ask you this, I agree with what he's saying, I'll take it one step further, the old guards trying to slow the game down, move the goal post as an expression, they gotta try to slow this freight train down because otherwise it could be less than it does and they have leverage, they've got customers, they have market power, even Oracle I would say is in that category so they gotta kind of slow the game down but is the scale and the unprecedented amount of announcements, the differentiator as more services come on, their thesis here at Amazon, as I release more services faster, more available capability thus more, total address full markets available. Do you buy those two things, slowing down and services being the advantage? >> That's interesting I think it's more of a scatter gun approach in a way, it's like you know, fail fast. So if we throw enough services out there, throw enough stuff at the wall, we'll just find the ones that work and concentrate on those, as someone who tries to keep up with what Amazon is doing and this happens with developers as well. When you release 800 new services in a year, name them all, as a human that's really really difficult to manage. So I think in some ways it's a little bit... >> I've got four kids I can't even name, I get them all confused >> It's a little bit like Microsoft Word, it's got 800 billion different features but for any given customer they're gonna use maybe 10% of them and yet all of them are there because different customers use a different 10%. I think that's a little bit what Amazon is going for, kind of ubiquitous market coverage, as much market as it can possibly get, it's a lot like it's retail strategy, we want to be in everything, where some of the competitors are being a little bit more focused about saying well rather than just being a generic service that covers everything, we're gonna focus on particular areas that we think have enough value in that for it to be worth that time. >> Okay I wanna ask you guys a question about value creation, entrepreneurial, the startups, companies that are trying to go, you kind of see, certainly in Silicon Valley, where I live, startups are getting pummeled, if they were born before 2012, they're really going.6.. they try to go big but they're mostly going home. Barracuda Networks just announced this week that they're gonna go private, private equity's squabbling up all these companies that have pretty good sizeable funding, 100 million dollar invests from Andressen Horowitz, Graylog, Sequoia, big names, folding tent and being acquired which is code words for we can't got public and even big public companies that don't have a Cloud player, kind of retooling. So the question is, are we at a point now where scale and speed of the game is causing some havoc in the market place. >> Well look no further than what's going on in Europe now, the Cube is at HPE reInvent. HPE's discover in Europe and HPE is a completely different company than it was three years ago as a direct result of what Amazon has done in the Cloud space and gobbling up all of these smaller accounts and new opportunity. You mentioned it earlier, HPE is still HPE, HPE is gonna get that interview or session with the CIO, Meg makes the call, someones going to pick up the line. >> Now Antonio >> Yeah, now Antonio But AWS has been changing that story, impacting and taking the air out. HPE chose a interesting approach, get smaller, become more agile, Dell chose the opposite route of getting bigger to compete, we'll see which one plays out, in the meantime 18 billion dollar run rate and no sign of slowing down. >> 18 billion dollar run rate with 40% growth on that bassline is pretty significant, I think they might even be doing better than that next quarter but that speaks to the traction, it's not just startups, those numbers aren't just startups. Airbnb is a big company now but they started out small. We use Amazon, a lot of people use Amazon, they're winning big enterprise deals, why? What do you guys think, what's the reason why? >> You know what... Go a little bit intuitive here, look at VMware on AWS, I've been kind of critical of that solution but it is a easy win, if VMware made the exact same announcement on IBM, the year before at VM world... the Fortune 500's I talk to don't consider that Cloud, the exact same solution and AWS is Cloud, that's the Cloud check box. AWS, they do a much better job at controlling their brand Kleenex but they are the Kleenex, they are the Xerox of Cloud, you don't have Cloud unless you have AWS from a enterprise perspective, that's what Azure, Google Compute, and all the other Cloud providers have to compete against >> First of all those guys are incomplete in their Cloud and that's just on a feature by feature basis, I do agree it's kind of like Outlook or Word, I like Outlook because it's more bloated than Word and less useful but my point is, that's the name of the game, getting functional value creation. So final question for you guys is, as we look at reInvent this week obviously I looked at the industry day yesterday and the board, a lot of Alexa repeats. So you can see what sessions are repeating so that's a indicator of popularity so Alexa's got traction, serverless with Lambda. What do you guys see as the big, so far, early show buzz? >> I'm hearing a lot about containers, containers and like you say, things like Lambda and Alexa, anything that has AI machine learning in it, that's very hot at the moment whether or not it's just hype and the bubble on that will pop in a few years, I personally think that that is mostly hype and hot air but it'll settle down and there'll be some real value in there. That's where I'm seeing the noise. >> So over at the RA, they have the container kind of show, it's a show within a show and I'm hearing similarities with containers but not just containers, to your point, serverless, it was a term that we struggled with a couple years ago, now it's generally accepted, you know what, I can just write code and that code can be executed without regard to infrastructure operations. That has proved to be insanely popular right now. >> Okay final question, I'll start it, we're gonna end this on this last segment, I know I wanna get one more in, that's the buzz. I wanna ask you guys, what tea leaves are you reading, what signals are you looking for? Because remember Amazon is very scripted up right now, you can see them on message, I'm trying to poke holes, and which tea leaves, smelling it, putting my ear, ear to the ground, think about that question, my view is, I'm looking at, is this developer trend a cultural shift and to what extent is that developer traction in terms of mind share and love of the brand, Kleenex, the Cloud, the real Cloud, and how much will that tip the CXO conversation. Where's that power shift? So me, I'm trying to read what the tea leaves are saying, if this developer tipping point happens at this scale, developers could really be in the drivers seat. Not just oh developers are in charge, I'm talking about really making the decisions on all big deployments, that's my tea leaf read. What are you looking at? >> So I'm talking to a lot of vendors, their number one reason for being at AWS, when I say vendors, vendors that we see at traditional infrastructure shows, they're here to talk to new audiences, to that developer audience that you mentioned and what I want to know from them, more than just interest, do these developers have money? One of those challenges that all of these Cloudy type companies have faced is that the developers fall in love with them, Docker is a great example, developers fell in love with Docker, millions of downloads. However that doesn't translate to POs and purchases, do these guys actually have the buying power to see through that initial contact all the way to the sale of the solution. >> Influence the buying decisions and IT, thoughts? >> You made the same comment I think earlier about 2008 VM world, it has a very similar vibe to me here, I'm seeing that this is now the crossover between where it was developers, where it was all hoodies and tracksuits and pink hair, I'm seeing a lot of suits, seeing a lot of money floating around this conference, so I'm starting to think that this is the point where AWS is starting its transition from being the new guard to the old guard, they would love to be IBM, IBM made a lot of money. >> Turning into an old guard is very good financially >> It makes you a lot of money. So I'm looking to see where on that transition are we and how long can AWS maintain that momentum of being a new guard company. >> If they can hold the line on new guard they win everything as long as they could in my opinion. Alright, I'm John Furrier here with Justin Moore and Keith Townsend kicking off the first day of three days of wall to wall coverage here at AWS reInvent, stay tuned for more analysis opinion, commentary, of course go to SiliconANGLE.com for all the exclusive interviews with Andy Jassy and all the top executives of Amazon. We'll be back with more after this short break. (slow futuristic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's the CUBE, covering Dell EMC World 2017. Brought to you by Dell EMC. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to Las Vegas, the CUBE's coverage of Dell EMC World. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Keith Townsend. We're joined by Rodney Rogers, he's the CEO of Virtustream. Thanks so much for joining us, Rodney. >> Oh, awesome to be here, always is. >> CUBE veteran, a CUBE guy. >> A CUBE veteran. I was that top 16 thing that you guys-- >> Oh right. >> You know March Madness? >> Yeah. >> CUBE Madness. >> Yeah CUBE Madness, that was awesome. >> I think I made it to the elite, I think I might have made it to the Elite Eight. >> Who knocked you out? >> I know I was Sweet 16. >> Who knocked you out? >> I can't say that man. That still hurts too much. >> Oh, sorry, okay, I didn't mean to bring it up. I didn't mean to bring it up. But before the cameras were rolling, you were talking about how you accomplished the improbable by running these mission critical apps in the cloud. It was a mission impossible to run mission critical. How did you do it? >> Yeah, so when we started Virtustream in early 2009, AWS' EC2 was just coming into mainstream of I.T. awareness I would say. We took a look at what they did. They kind of made a market for creating ubiquitous access to the developers to develop cloud-native apps to run distributive scale type of applications. We were venture-backed, we were a startup, started from scratch. When you're an entrepreneur, you kind of need to build what you know and sell it to who you know. We were enterprise application guys. So we said we'd love to take this unique innovation and apply it to the types of application landscapes that we've grown up knowing and managing and implementing, and things of that nature. And so we specifically purpose-built software to run a cloud infrastructure as a service that focused on solving the engineering problem of IO-intensive scale-up applications. And what you have with those types of applications is IO-centricity as opposed to compute or distributive points of failure, distributive points of computing challenges that the general purpose public clouds are very well suited for. And so we kind of invented this software, we kind of melt the cloud into its molecular components so we could control the individual attributes. And it allows us to run public cloud economics because we're not bound by instant sizes, things of that nature. But it allows us to control throughput in a more acute manner to service the application environment. And that makes us the only guys that provide actually an application latency SLA for the apps to run on our cloud. And that's really critical if you go to a Fortune 500 CI and say put your mission critical, your spinal fluid apps, your order-to-cash apps, in production in a multi-tenant cloud, they've got to be sure that there's not going to be resource contention that'll actually affect and bring that business down. So yeah, we were kind of viewed a bit like we were crazy back then. And we stayed very determined. We were probably the least cool guys in the cloud. Nobody cared what we were doing five years ago. Now as you read in the press, everybody's pivoting towards enterprise. That's where the big adoption cycle is. And we are so confident in our IP and in our first move or position for this type of marketplace. We have an architecture that's purpose-built, software that's purpose-built, particularly for these types of apps. So we're quite excited about where it is today. >> Rodney, I want to get back to that, talking about how you were the least cool guys. But one of your claims to fame is that you helped realize two back-to-back unicorns. These are startups that start from scratch, that are then valued at over a billion dollars. >> Rodney: Yeah. >> What is your secret sauce? How are you able to see so far ahead? >> You know I think kind of, it sounds very basic, but one of the things you see in a venture-backed technology community a lot is product-centric initiatives, so building products for the sake of the product. We really focused on where the market demand was, right. So we saw emerging space in cloud automation. We didn't see that automation servicing what large enterprises spent 60 to 70 percent of their I.T. budgets on. So were just like the big legacy OEM guys that have dedicated hosts. We were kind of more servicing that. And we were like look, you know, last thing in the world needs is a subscale AWS. That'll be venture capital suicide. Let's go prosecute this opportunity and bring this automation, and compete more with the guys who can't compete with us. And so, I think we were back in four or five years ago there's been a lot of religious wars around cloud. It was public versus private. There's API standards, are you going to adopt AWS, there's OpenStack, build your own, things of that nature. And we were, there were many cloud purists. They said, if you can't re-architect, rebuild your app to run in the cloud then don't run it in the cloud, but rebuild and re-architect the app. You're talking about an SAP system at a Fortune 50 company, they've literally spend hundreds of millions of dollars, if not billions of dollars, that's not going to get rewritten, at least not in my business lifetime. >> Yeah, right. (laughing) >> It probably will eventually. And it'll morph into various SAS models. But there's a core part of the applications today, running any business, especially large enterprises, very well suited for what we do. So if there's a secret there, we stay. It wasn't a sexy thing. My co-founder, Kevin Reid, and I, we're kind of the apps antithesis of the Silicon Valley hipster. We were East Coast middle-aged guys (laughing) that focused on enterprise. It couldn't have been less interesting, I think, but we saw a prosecutable opportunity, we brought on some really smart people that wrote software. Cloud infrastructure as a service, you think storage network. It's not really about that, it's about the software that controls it, runs it, drives your feature sets. So we furiously wrote code. We were told we were going to fail everyday. And I'd go on to Twitter and read, 2010, 11, 12. We had no chance of competing with the scale guys. But we did, we created a software reason to exist. We got those economics, we run a much more utilized hardware state than anybody in the industry, much higher memory page utilization so we use that to compete with the procurement scale but we found a prosecutable margin, we're patient and we never pivoted. In a lot of the Silicon Valley language, pivot's an over-aggrandized word. When you pivot, you've generally made a mistake. We never pivoted. >> Let's talk about that focus. You guys were laser-focused on SAP. You say it's not sexy. I have SAP roots, so-- >> Rebecca: He's a geek, he's a geek. >> Yeah, I'm a geek. >> Yeah, he find a lot of, yeah. >> I think you're sexy. (laughing) >> So you guys did some amazing things with automating deployment of SAP. I would call you a COE, cloud of excellence for SAP. So talk about the maturity of moving from focused on SAP to what we hear today about Virtustream being for enterprise applications, not just SAP. Where's the secret sauce or the new advantages that customers can realize? >> So, we started with SAP because again, building what we knew. My co-founders and I had grown up around that ecosystem, so they knew the application very well. So there are two levels to our IP, one is the infrastructure automation, and that's actually agnostic to the app. We run thousands of apps. When you go run an SAP environment in the cloud, maybe 50, 60% of workloads are actually SAP. The rest are all the workloads for the supporting apps that satellite around an interface. The interface management gets quite tricky, you know, things of that nature. Ultimately, the second layer of automation is application control automation that we built. That is very application-specific. So there's a part of our core capability that can run any app, and we do very well with those apps that have that IO-centric challenge, just a different engineering problem. High IO apps place great degrees of memory burden on the underlying infrastructure, versus compute burden for scale-wide apps, generally. What we've now done is we've kind of built the foundation of the business along a horizontal line, we're kind of associated with SAP. >> Right. >> Because of heritage, and then for the application control that we've built, we've now expanded that to a number of different applications. And this week at Dell EMC World, we announced the healthcare vertical, we've gotten big into the federal and public sector, so we wanted to build a foundation using a horizontal technology, and now to really scale this, we're going to develop very specific vertical solutions. >> That's great, well Rodney, thanks so much. We're going to see you tomorrow night at the Gwen Stefani concert, you'll be dancing-- >> Absolutely, I wouldn't miss it. >> We'll both see you, I will say hollaback girl. >> Hollaback girl. >> We'll do a little-- >> We'll be on the tables. >> I will mime it. >> Awesome, awesome. >> Rodney, thanks so much for joining us. >> Pleasure to be here. >> Rebecca: Great to have you on the show. >> Awesome, thank you guys. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Keith Townsend. We will have more from Dell EMC World 2017 after this. (upbeat music)

>> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering Interconnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we're live in Las Vegas for IBM Interconnect 2017, this is theCUBE's three-day coverage, we're in day two, wall-to-wall coverage with theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, with my co-host, Dave Vellante. Our next guest is Jason Kelley, Vice President, he's a partner at IBM's Global Business Solutions, GBS Solutions and Design, part of the group that brings it all together in the digital transformation for IBM. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Grand to be here, thanks for having me. >> So, we were just talking about South by Southwest, before we kicked on the cameras, and you guys had a huge presence there. But you're an interesting part of IBM, and I want you just to make a minute to explain what you do, because everyone talks about, "Oh UX design, you're going to develop the future," it's a lot more complicated than just saying UX design. >> That's true, very true. >> There's some work involved, so take us through what this design experience concept's about, and how does it work, and why everyone's so buzzed-up about it, 'cause it's gettin' a lot of traction. >> Great question to start with, and I always get to spin that then back to you. So as you said UX, first thing that came out, you said design and UX, so tell me, when you hear design, what do you think of? Do you think of cool ties, jackets, what do you think? >> I don't know, a nice cube setup with good user-- >> A couple good lookin' guys. >> Interface on the website. >> I was thinking devices. >> Dave's tie. >> I think of cool visuals, right? I think of movies, actually. >> Okay, okay. So, they are things that give you some type of experience. >> Dave: Yeah, they create a feeling inside, an emotion, it's a motive. >> All right, okay. So, now we're headed in that direction. So take that emotion piece, set that to the side, and think about what also came out, you said device, so it's something that you use. And often when you say design now, they think of the wonderful things like-- >> John: The iPhone. >> You got it, iPhone. They say, "Oh, what wonderful design." That design evokes emotion. And so, when we think of emotion, take that and put that into business, and think about creating an elegant solution for the outcomes of the end user in a business. So, you have a business that has a problem, they need to solve it, and you want to create a solution that evokes emotion. So that as they experience, like you can't set down that phone, we don't want them to set down their IBM solutions, that's the type of design that I'm talking about. >> Jason, this is interesting, Dave and I always talk about this in theCUBE when we get into this kind of like, get into The Cloud and look down at the world, the computer industry has always been centered on how many users do you have? I mean user, are you a drug user? What kind of user are you? It's the consumer, right? So, now you're really getting at the heart of design transcending computer, a user on a terminal. They're all consumers. So this is kind of the new normal. >> That's right, the new norm is, the consumer, meaning the focus. We'll go back to your phone, you think about this consumable capabilities and that consumption. You think back when we thought were cool and you would say, "This is my home office, "and I've got my fax machine here and I've got my-- >> John: A pager! >> "I've got my pager, I've got my telephone, "I've got all these things." >> My stereo. >> You had all those, and now... Here it is. And who did this? This is the consumer. And so, having consumable solutions that a consumer would be excited about, but taking that to the enterprise, at scale. At scale, did I send someone a great text there? >> No, I was just plugging in. (Jason and John laughing) >> So that you have to-- >> It's got a cognitive energy in it, so it's designed well. (all laughing) >> Honey, bring me more milk and bread. What we do from a consumability perspective is just that: how do you make sure that you have consumer grade solutions that the enterprise can enjoy? Right? So that is key, and this is what you pivot around. >> One of the things that we also were watching last week, we were at the Big Data event that we had in Silicon Valley, you can judge 'em as Strata Hadoop is, the collision course between the big data world which tends to be analytics: Watson's got cognitive, and then The Cloud, you've got brute force blocking and tackling, Cloud under the hood, hard IT problems, in-production workloads; and then you have the cool, sexy, sizzley web app, and mobile apps, creativity, kind of comin' together. So, on one hand you got creativity, you have energy, you have emotions, all this kind of outcome-based consumer thinking, and then you got the hard scaffolding, the iron under the hood, like workloads, hard stuff. So, how do you balance that when you get into the Design Center? It's not what people might think, "Oh, they got the crazy ideas, and I'm going to do this, "change the world," but at the end of the day you got to go implement it, so take me through that process. >> So you think about implementation, and we have, here over the last four years, established 26-plus IBM Design Studios globally. And our clients love to come to those studios because they get to talk about what you're asking me here, "Look we have all these things, these piece parts, "some things new, some things legacy. "How do I take this, and how do I tie it all together?" They usually come with these business challenges and say, "Look, I have a front office, and a back office, "and I'm tyin' to get all this," we go "Wait a second. "What you've just described is really one office, "and in that one office, "at the center of all those challenges are data, typically." And you're tryin' to figure out, "How can I make this data work?" And then, as soon as you solve that problem you say, "Wait a minute, then there's business process, "that's working between the front office, "and the back office, and this middle office." And then "Oh wait, there's also then some regulation "that I have to worry about." So now, you have this crashing of these different capabilities, you have this challenge of saying, "How do I make the business architecture, "work with the technical architecture, "work with my human architecture?" And that's where design comes in, that's where you begin to weave those things together by understanding how each one of those diverse pieces of the business work in harmony. >> So Jason, what are some of your favorite examples of an outcome that drove business value? >> I'll use a great example, and it was one with a client I was just havin' a wonderful dinner with last night, the Bank of the Philippine Islands. Banking has each one of these things that I've talked about: trying be more nimble on the front end, as well as having a very complicated, and often regulated back end. This wonderful, wonderful client of IBM said, "Listen, could you come in "and help me solve my data problem? "Because we have a big data challenge." I said, "Sure, well let's understand that, "let's get under the covers of this data problem," in a design workshop with them, walking them through their end users, their end users being all the way through their enterprise, our process realized, wait a minute, it's not our data problem that we have, it's a start-up problem. We're always going to have a data problem, but we can't run like a start-up, we can't move fast, we're not as agile as we think we are. We think we do DevOps, but our DevOps hit separate from agile, and by the way, this design-thinking thinking is great, how do you weave all of that together? What they found then in their start-up was now that we know what our problem is, you've wowed us, we're wowed. But then, how do we execute? We use this term, if I can wow you, you will definitely then how me, right? So how do we do this? And this is where the design came in where we said, "Look, now let's understand how you move like a start-up," which then did get under the covers with: well we need a Cloud capability; we need to have some tooling, like Bluemix, where we can go ahead and quickly assemble those things together; and we need to understand how we can apply some of our analytics, and maybe even cognitive, towards our clients. So, that's something that started one way, here's the problem, and it's data, that really ended up another way. And as they will tell you if you were to ask Bank of Philippine Islands, they'd say, "Listen, the design doesn't stop." And what they've learned from us is that design never stops, everything's a prototype in a sense, and design only stops when the problem is solved. And I can ask you, is the problem ever solved? >> No, it's a moving train every day. >> Jason: You're never done. >> The Design Center, really Studio is a great idea, I think it's phenomenal. The question I want to kind of probe into is how much of it is therapy for the customer to kind of, "Doctor, am I okay? "I think what's goin' on with me, can you look around me?" 'Cause they're lookin' from kind of that 360 blind spot, and how to be innovative. And so, you kind of rub their shoulders, "You been doin' okay, you're going to survive," and then you got to wow them. So before you wow them, you have to kind of whip 'em into shape and get their perspective, so how much of the percentage of time is herding the cats in a therapeutic way? Or is it not a factor to then, when you get that momentum going? Take us through the psychology of the buyer, your customer, because I can almost imagine the opportunities is somewhat intoxicating these days. So you go, "Hey, I got pressure to go Cloud native, "but I know it's going to be a disaster if I do." >> You're on a great point, and I like the thought of the therapy because look, it is somewhat of a Dr. Phil moment that they have. Where you sit back and what we find client after client is that sure, we could tell them, "Here are your pain points. "We're IBM, we deal with thousands of clients every week," but that doesn't cause change. I mean, you really have to change in the way that you're acting, so you can't really, we like to use this phrase-- >> Hit the playbook, run the offense. >> That's right. >> You got to have the culture. >> And you will have some people say that you have to have a culture, so you can't think your way into a new way of acting, you have to act your way into a new way of thinking. And so that's the process, is where you bring this discovery by way of using the basics of empathy, and this is design thinking, in the core of its essence. >> Empathy, great word. Business empathy is really the challenge because, I hate to use the example of will the parachute open? You know I always say to my kids, "Pack your own parachute, learn how to pack a parachute." Not that I tease that dangerous, but it can be, I mean, security breaches are one of those things where the blind trust that's out there, and some opportunities, to Jenny's point on stage today, trust economy. >> That's very true. >> This could be a dangerous world, so you don't want to just trust the parachute's going to open. >> No, no, I will tell ya in a prior life I used a parachute, I jumped Airborne Ranger, jumped out of planes, and I always joked saying, "Hey, no one is going to get shot out, "or have to jump out of an airplane today," so it'll be fine. Well, I can laugh and joke, but you're right because you sit there and to any of our clients, it's not a joke. That trust economy that we're in is reality, and it has to be underlayed with the confidence that we can bring that to-- >> Well Cloud, I have said The Cloud which underpins all this is going to move at the speed of trust, if you don't trust The Cloud, you're not going to use it. >> Jason: Very true. >> That example you gave, I want to go back to it, 'cause we talked about the emotion. So, the emotion comes from what, the consumer experience? You know the bank, that you gave that example. So, take us through sort of what that outcome was, I mean, it was the entire experience that was reimagined? Is that right? >> Well that's exactly, the experience was when the diverse team across the bank was in one room, and going through some of the exercises we take them through to use this empathy for the enterprise. Not just for the individual, or design for a product, this is design for an entire business. As they sit there and they look across that, what they got out of that was this thought that, "Wait a second, this is very complicated "for my part of the business. "Oh but wait, your part of the business "is having similar challenges, and oh, yours as well." And then you have the aha moment you're like, "Wait, we're all having similar challenges." And this becomes the emotion, the emotion goes, "Wait a second, you've just helped me see something "that was right in front of me, it was right there." Thank you, this is the Dr. Phil moment, because then you say, "Oh well, "then we're doing this together." And you go, "Yes, now let us walk you through, "walk you through walking us through "what we might do together collaboratively," and that's where you get this new step change of action. >> So, you're a business therapist, but also can implement. >> Right, because ultimately you have to make, and we have these steps where we look at how we walk through our cycle. If you think of an infinity sign, we go through: you must understand, reflect and make. And we have those as stages of this infinity sign, that you never stop going through those loops, as we call it, the loop of understanding, reflecting and making. >> Jason, I want to talk about the, you mentioned a Dr. Phil moment, this empathy, really a legitimate thing that goes on but-- >> Yeah, you're going to think I'm Dr. Phil, right? >> But also, a lot of customers I can imagine are grounded in disappointment. I mean, the way I felt when Duke lost in the March Madness, I'm like, and then like, "Oh my God, how could they be out?" I had them goin' all the way, it kind of screws up the brackets. So, like that's IT. IT's a lot like, you know, you make a bet, and sometimes it doesn't pan out, you got to be agile. So coming into the disappointment, clients come into the Design Center, probably with either an itch they're scratching, I want to innovate, and then problems that they're trying to solve, which might be some baggage, some sort of issue. Is there a pattern that you see when you have prospects come through, and clients come through the Design Center that are consistent? Like is there a trend, a trending chart, like top three, stack-ranked, issues fall into categorically, Cloud transformation, Watson analytics, is there a trend line? And by the way, did you have Duke to go all the way? >> I thought they would. In the trend that we see, there's some common things that come to mind where a client will say, "I want to move faster." And none of these are going to be surprises: I need to move faster, okay; I need to be agile; I would love to be more innovative; I would like to take my innovation and put it in action; how do I do all of there things? And you'll find if you work with them you go, "So why?" "Why?" We play the game of 5-Whys, and eventually you get to what the true, the true need is, and that true need is to get to get an outcome very quickly, they all have something right in front of them, and it's to be agile, innovative, and out in front of the market. All of those things require what you've already called-out with the technologies, and they are just technologies, the challenge is putting them in action. >> So with the Whys, you get to the outcome, that's the real pain point, and then you settle in to a variety of solution architectural choices. >> Yes, because that architecture battle, as we hear from Jenny, it's going to be the architecture battles on cognitive, on AI and data. And finding those three areas, that's where it has to be knit together. >> Enterprise strong, data first, and cognitive to the core. >> Well said. >> See, I was listening Jenny, I've listened to all your words in your speech, and I don't need Watson for that, but I'll forget tonight after I have a few cocktails. Jason, thank you so much for comin' on theCUBE, appreciate the insight. >> I appreciate the time. >> Be safe jumping out of the airplanes. >> All right, take care guys. >> Thanks so much. More live coverage here from theCUBE after the show, stay with us, some more interviews still on day two to come. Great content here, great guests, more after the short break.

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCube covering InterConnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Okay welcome back everyone. We're here live in Las Vegas the Mandalay Bay for IBM InterConnect 2017. This is the Cube coverage I'm John Furrier my cohost Dave Vellante, our next guest is our famous Cube alumni, Tanmay Bakshi welcome back to the Cube. Now you're a cognitive developer and your new business card as part of the Darwin Ecosystem says Algorithmist. >> Dave: Algorithmist. >> Algorithmist, yes. >> John: Welcome back. >> Thank you, I'm very glad to be back on theCube. And yes, of course, as I said, I'm working on many new projects with artificial intelligence, and, of course, IBM Watson. Including ones that are provided by Darwin Ecosystem. And of course, we're working on this really interesting project called A Cognitive Story, which you will be seeing more about on my talks on Tuesday and Wednesday. The Cognitive Story is basically this collaboration between IBM, Darwin Ecosystem, Not Rocket Science, and me. Basically we're working towards really using the power of cognitive in order to change people's lives in a positive way. That's what I'm doing at the Darwin Ecosystem, generally, with IBM Watson and AI. >> Last year, we had a great chat. I remember talking about algorithms, the software, super fun. What's changed in the past year? Give us the update on you. And, two, what's changed in the code? >> Definitely. >> What are some of the things you're working on? >> Yeah, sure. So, since last year, first of all, a lot has changed. A lot of new trends have emerged in the general topic of technology, like Cybersecurity, something that people are starting to take a lot more seriously now. With things like AI and IBM Watson starting to be incorporated in with that. And, of course, though, really from my side, what I've mainly been doing is not, I've actually started to work not only with IBM Watson's cognitive capabilities, and not only the cognitive capabilities provided by these services, but also my own custom services. Crowd by neural networks, and other machine learning algorithms. Like, just for example, A Cognitive Story is powered by my own custom coded neural networks. And that's why, of course, I've been given the designation of Algorithmist. Because I love to work with algorithms, fine tune them, and, of course, design them. So that's actually what's been going on for the past year. But mainly, I guess you could say now my real focus is on how we can use artificial intelligence and cognitive computing in order to first of all, amplify and really augment human capability, and, of course, how we can use it to change people's lives in a positive way. Especially in fields like health care, where we can save people's lives with this technology, where we can make people's lives easier with this technology. Like, just for example, what IBM Watson is doing, for people with Autism, and how it's helping them with the applications that it provides. What IBM Watson's doing for the elderly in India, with the new Gentoo Robot that IBM Watson is creating, and so much that Watson is doing with healthcare. That's really what I'm focused in, with cognitive computing in general. >> What are some of the algorithms that you've been working on? What's the intent? >> Sure, well, I've actually been working on a lot of different algorithms. Mainly in the AI space, and, of course, how we can create neural networks to understand brainwave patterns. And you'll be seeing more of that on Tuesday and Wednesday, with The Cognitive Story. But, I've also been working, of course, on algorithms that I've already created, as I said, AskTanmay, you probably remember that from last year, the NLQA system. I've been working more on AskTanmay, and, in fact, in June, in Developer Connective last year, I actually open-sourced AskTanmay. So, of course, I've been working on that, improving it. I'm about to release Version 3, which is really fun. And, of course, since it's open source, I love to share my knowledge with this code so that other people can learn from it and learn how to use this type of AI technology in their own applications, as well. >> As a young, next generation, mogul, software mogul that you'll soon be, you're already one now, but you're still young, you've got a lot more ways to go, but you're living in a great time because, I wish I could be your age right now, because machine learning is really hot right now. And it's growing because of the cloud. The cloud gives you scale and compute power, and there's also a cultural vibe going on around social good. So, talk about machine learning, what you're excited about there, specifically, and some of the things that you see, from your generation of developers around this desire to provide social good. >> Yeah, definitely. Well, I guess we should start off with, really, my main focus of interest, in fact, as you said, are really cloud computing, cognitive computing, and IOT. Because in their respective fields, they are the next level of computing. And, in fact, we're already starting to adopt them. Cloud computing's already been adopted on a huge scale. Cognitive computing, we're getting there. And IOT's, again, starting to be accepted by a lot of different people. >> And you might not even get a driver's license because by the time you get your driver's license there's going to be autonomous vehicles. >> Exactly, and so, of course, IOT's being used everywhere, and so is cloud computing and cognitive. So, really, what I've been focused on in the past year is, first of all, trying to get developers really interested in cognitive. But as you said, developers are really interested in doing social good with these technologies, and, just imagine this, what we're doing with The Cognitive Story right now is, we're basically, for example, I can't, of course, go into too much detail about this right now, yet, but we are basically taking this cognitive services and we're allowing people who don't have the natural ability to be able to express themselves, or communicate, or move in any way, really, to be able to express themselves, and communicate their decisions, and communicate their emotion, or whether or not they're comfortable, and more, through this cognitive system. And, of course, that's why it's so interesting, because imagine if you can't talk, and imagine if you know that, OK, I want to do this, but you're unable to express that, you're unable to communicate that to the people around you, that means that you're quite literally trapped in your own body. And having cognitive computing able to come in and allow you to communicate, and create your own, I guess you could say, unique language using these brainwave patterns. That's something that I absolutely believe is, I guess you could say, the greatest gift, ever. To be able to give you the ability to communicate through artificial intelligence. That's really why I love working the healthcare field. >> Now, am I right, you've written a book? >> Yes, actually, and it actually started from last InterConnect. Last Interconnect, I started, and now I'm actually done writing my book, called, "Hello Swift!: IOS App Programming "for Kids and Other Beginners" and it's actually currently available for pre-order on the publisher's website, as well as lots of other book stores online. Of course, the final hard copy will be released soon. But basically, this book is really targeted towards getting the youth, and, really, kids, interested in programming, and specifically, IOS programming through Swift. And, of course, as you know, Swift is open-sourced, and I really support open source software. >> What are some of the cool things young kids want in software these days? Because, like I said, there is a tool chest of great stuff coming on, like composable software, Lego blocks, which people called like Lego blocks. What are some of the cool things that kids want these days? >> Well, there are a lot of things. But I'd actually like to highlight the main way that I like to get the youth interested in coding. And it's by showing them something that they find really interesting. For example, something that they see in movies a lot. Like, for example, artificial intelligence is the absolute perfect example of how you can have something, like artificial intelligence, that can get kids interested, and the youth interested, in these technologies like programming, in order to start to get them programming. Because of course, we need them to be prepared for their future. >> Gaming and AI are two, like, Sci-Fy is AI, kind of a cool, futuristic. And then gaming, also, is very interactive, immersion-based. >> Exactly, and, in fact, that's why a lot of companies are starting to merge AI and games. And, of course, virtual reality. Virtual reality is something else that, you know, kids, and really everybody, is really interested in nowadays. If we can, and in fact, we are, taking these AI technologies and incorporating them with these other technologies, like gaming, with the virtual reality, augmented reality, mixed reality, and we're trying to create this really interesting mix, especially for kids. And also, one more thing, here, is that not only are we doing this, AI is so diverse, it's all around us. It's on your phone, it's on your smart TV, it's in your car, and that's really why we should be showing the youth that this is all around us. We need to start adopting these technologies. >> Last year, I asked you the question, take us through a day in the life of Tanmay where you had a discovery. So let's play that back this year. Give us the time this year where you had a discovery. It could be super cool, or maybe just a breakthrough in some small way that was a notable that you'd like to share. >> Yes, and that actually happened recently. And again, I'm going to take this back to just a few weeks ago, actually. When I started working with, I mean, I had actually been working with my own custom machine learning algorithms for quite some time, since just after last InterConnect, actually, I started working with my own custom algorithms for machine learning. But a few weeks ago, I actually started working with those custom algorithms in the healthcare space. And one application that I've created that I find, actually, quite interesting because of the capability it has to help doctors, and I'll tell you this in a moment, is that it's an application that can take 69 attributes about any patient, OK, and it can actually tell you if they have a hearing disorder. And if so, what's their hearing disorder. The reason this is so great is because this can be a great help to audiologists, for example. And, in fact, I am actually in communication with an audiologist from the UK, and we're collaborating with him to try and see what this could hold in store for the future of audiology, and the future of healthcare, in general, with artificial intelligence. Apart from that, though, The Cognitive Story is another great project, where, of course, I'm trying to combine machine learning with these extremely powerful capabilities that Watson provides in order to create a great mix. In order to help people express themselves even though they don't have the natural ability to do so. >> So, Tanmay, obviously you are a big supporter of open source. You said earlier you open-sourced some of your algorithms, AskTanmay. What's been the response? Have you had contributors? >> Yes, actually, and that's the greatest part about open source, because, now, the thing is, let's just say there's some issues with AskTanmay, there's some, as you know, this is general open source stuff. But now, Ask Tanmay is really, I guess you could say, evolving much faster than I could ever have programmed it because there are many people coming to me, collaborating with me, helping out, submitting issues, pull requests, and more. And with AskTanmay, especially, now I'm about to release Version 3.0, as well, because I was able to get that help from the community. And, of course, because of that, not only does the community help me, but I am able to help the community by sharing my source code so they can learn from that and build their own QA systems on top of it. >> Awesome, so give us the report card on Bluemix and Watson. And be fair, now, I know you're IBM Champion. >> Yes, now, IBM Bluemix and Watson, I can tell, especially Watson, it has evolved a lot since last InterConnect. Of course, the new services that they're providing, like the Natural Language Understanding service, and more. And really, what I believe, is that not only are they providing these new services, but they're also improving their existing services. Like the Visual Recognition Service, how they're doing the image similarity, how they're improving their default classifier, how they are merging it with the Alchemy Vision services in order to make it even more powerful. And of course, the new, live training features that they're incorporating into visual recognition. How they're improving speech-to-text, and they're generally taking all of these Watson services that already exist and making them even more powerful so developers can really leverage them in their applications. Apart from that, though, IBM Bluemix has been going great, as well, with the new services it provides, especially from SoftLayer. Of course, Bluemix is going great, Watson has been rapidly evolving, as well. >> I notice you've got your IOT Watch on, the Apple iWatch. I bet you've been doing some stuff with IOT. What are some of the wearables you think that are needed right now? Because we had the founder of IndieGoGo on and we know the success of the crowdsourcing is there's a lot of tinkers and inventors out there who now can be up and running, so we're expecting to have a big maker culture growing exponentially around new stuff. So, what do you see that's needed from your generation? Chip implant in the brain? What's going on? >> Well, of course- >> What would you want? >> Well, in terms of, I guess you could say, wearables, there are a lot of different things that people are doing with wearables, including virtual realities. One of the main things that I believe is, I guess you could say, the most trending topic, in terms of wearables, of course watches, we've got glasses now that they're creating, like the Microsoft Hololens. And all of these different products that are focused around basically being able to, I guess you could say, run have these technologies available on your body. On yourself, quite literally. And to make it so easy to use. And really, what I believe is that one of the main things that's really going to power these wearables is AI, artificial intelligence. For example, even the Apple Watch has AI features in it. I mean, all virtual reality is powered by artificial intelligence, as well. And without that, it becomes extremely hard if not impossible for people to code in things like virtual reality. So what I believe is that we need, I guess you could say more adoption to these cognitive technologies. And we need people to adapt to it in their everyday environment, and really accept that it's all around them. And that's it's going to be extremely hard to live without it. Of course, we need to start getting the youth involved in these technologies, for them to be prepared for that future in which cognitive computing is everything, and, in fact, cognitive computing isn't just the future. It's the present, as well. That's why we need to start getting prepared for it. And that's why it's all around us. >> John was joking earlier about you getting your license. You're 14, now, is that right? >> 13, actually, about to be 14 in October. >> OK, right, so soon to be 14. So you'll probably get your license and still be able to drive. In two years we're not going to have totally autonomous vehicles, but- >> John: Maybe 25 years. >> What are your thoughts on that, though? What's the driving age in Canada, 16? >> Yes, I believe 16. >> Yeah, OK, so, you know, 16 years old, it's a symbol of freedom, you know, you get autonomy, and, you know. What's your feeling about maybe the next generation and them inheriting autonomous vehicles and not having, you know, the stick shift to drive, like when we were kids, and we all learned on the stick shift. What do you sense that? What do your colleagues and your other friends say about that? >> Sure, so, now, self-driving cars is something that is already being worked on, heavily, actually. It's a big research topic. Tesla, huge company that's really working towards self-driving cars, autonomous cars. They've already got, like, half of that done. They just have to work on the last half. Of course we've also got Google working on their self-driving cars, and so many other companies who at least aren't creating self-driving cars right now, or most are, actually, starting to work toward self-driving cars, including Uber. In fact, Uber is creating their own self-driving taxis that can take you around the city without you actually having to have a driver. But the thing is, what I believe, is that this AI technology is powerful enough to be able to work with these autonomous vehicles and more. It's just that there are a few, I guess you could say, rough edges that need to be worked out with these technologies, which I believe can be done. It's just a matter of time before we are able to get completely autonomous cars on the road. It's just that there might be a few issues with the ethics of self-driving cars, and that's an entire topic on its own. That would require an entirely separate interview. But, generally, I think autonomous cars, that's a great, great place to go with artificial intelligence, because that could completely eliminate, or at least significantly reduce, the amount of, for example, human error there is in driving. And, of course, get you around traffic faster. And, generally, maybe not even have traffic jams. There's just so many advantages to having autonomous cars. And, of course, that's why cognitive computing is all around us. >> So, AI is hot, IOT is hot. You're hot, you've got a great fan base. We know that from last year. The reaction from our audience was spectacular. >> Tanmay: Thank you. >> You almost won our Cube Madness competition because you retweeted all your followers, or all your YouTube followers. >> Tanmay: Thank you. >> Congratulations, great to see you. Come back on the Cube. >> Thank you, it's great to be on theCube. >> OK, we'll be back with more from theCube Live here in Las Vegas where IBM InterConnect, AI, cognitive computing, collective intelligence, all the data, here on theCube. We'll be right back with more after this short break. Stay with us.

>> Commentator: Live from Las Vegas. It's theCUBE. Covering InterConnect 2017. Brought to you by IBM. >> Hello everyone. Welcome to theCUBE special broadcast here at the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas for IBM InterConnect 2017. This is IBM's big Cloud show. I'm John Furrier. My co-host, David Vellante for the next three days will be wall-to-wall coverage of IBM's Cloud Watson. All the goodness from IBM. The keynote server finishing up now but this morning was the kickoff of what seems to be IBM's Cloud strategy here with Dave Vellante. Dave, you're listed in the keynote, we are hearing the presentation. We had the General Manager/Vice President of Data from Twitter on there, Chris Moody, talkin' about everything from the Trump presidential election being the avid tweeter that he is and got a lot of laughs on that. To the SVP of Cloud talking about DevOps and this is really IBM is investing 10 million dollars plus into more developer stuff in the field. This is IBM just continuing to pound the ball down the field on cloud. Your take? >> Well IBM's fundamental business premise is that cognitive, which includes analytics, John plus cloud plus specific industry solutions are the best way to solve business problems and IBM's trying to differentiate from the other cloud guys who David Kenny was on stage today saying, you know, they started with a retail business or the other guys started with search, we started with business problems, we started with data. And that's fundamental to what IBM is doing. The other point, I think is-- the other premise that IBM is putting forth is that the AI debate is over. The Artificial Intelligence, you know, wave of excitement in the 70s and 80s and then, you know, nothing is now back in full swing. An AI on the Cloud is a key differentiator from IBM. In typical IBM fashion for the last several Big Shows, IBM brought out not an IBMer but a customer or and or a partner. And today it brought out Chris Moody from Twitter talking about their relationship with IBM but more specifically the fact that Twitter's 11 years old. Some of the things you're doing with Twitter obviously connected into March Madness and then Arvind Krishna who has taken over for Robert LeBlanc as the head of the Cloud group, talked about IBM, AI, IBM's Cloud, blocked chain, trusted transactions, IoT, DevOPs, all the buzz words merged into IBM's Cloud Strategy. And of course, we reported several years ago at this event about Bluemix as the underpinning of IBM's developer strategy. And as well it showcased several partners. Indiegogo was a crowdfunding site and others. Some of those guys are going to be in theCUBE. So. You know as they say, this AI debate is over. It's real and IBM's intent is to the platform for business. >> Dave, the thing I want to get your thoughts on is IBM's on a 19 consecutive quarters of revenue problems with the business on general but they've been on a steady course and they kind of haven't wavered. So it's as if they know they got to shrink to grow approach but we just came off the heels of Google Next which is their Cloud Show. How the Amazon is on re-invent as the large public cloud but the number one question on the table that's going to power IoT, that's going to power AI, is the collision between cloud computing and IoT, cloud computing in big data I should say is colliding with IoT at the center which is going to fuel AI and so, it brings up the question of enterprise readiness. Okay? So this is the number one conversation in the hallways here at Las Vegas and every single Cloud Show in the enterprise is, can I move to the cloud? Obviously it's a hybrid world, multi-cloud world. IBM's cloud play. They had a Cloud. They're in the top four as we put them in there. Has to be enterprise ready but yet it as to spawn the development side. So again, your take on enterprise readiness and then really fueling the IoT because IoT is a real conversation at an architectural level that is shifting the-- tipping the scales if you will for where the action will be. >> Well John, you and I have talked in theCUBE for years now. Going on probably five years that IBM had to shrink to grow. They've got the shrink part down. They've divested some of its business like the x86 business and the microelectronics business. They have not solved the grow problem. Let's just say 19 straight quarters of declining revenue. But here's the question. Is IBM stronger today than it was a year ago? And I would argue yes and why is that? One is its focus. Its got a much clearer focus on its strategy around cognitive, around data and marrying that to Cloud. I think the other is as an 80 billion dollar company even though it's shrinking, its free cash flow is still 11.6 billion. So it's throwing off a lot of cash. Now of course, IBM made those numbers, made its earnings numbers by with through expense control, its got lower tax right. Some of the new ones of the financial engineering. Its got some good IP revenue. But nonetheless, I would still argue that IBM is stronger this year than it was a year ago. Having said that, IBM's service as business is still 60% of the company. The software business is still only about 30% into it but 10% is hardware. So IBM-- people say IBM has exited the hardware business. It hasn't exited completely the hardware business but it's only focusing on those high value areas like mainframe and they're trying to sort of retool power. Its got a new leader with Bob Picciano but it's still 60% of the company's business is still services and it's shifting to a (mumbles) model. An (mumbles) model. And that is sometimes painful financially. But again John, I would argue that it is stronger. It is better positioned. And now its got some growth potential in place with AI and with, as you say, IoT. We're going to have Harriet Green on. We're going to have Deon Newman on. Focusing on the IoT opportunity. The weather company acquisition as a foundation for IoT. So the key for IBM is that it's strategic imperatives are now over 40% of its business. IBM promised that it would be a 40 billion dollar business by 2018 and it's on track to do that. I think the question John is, is that business as profitable as its old business? And can it begin growing to offset the decline in things like storage, which has been seeing double digit declines and its traditional hardware business. >> So Dave, this is to my take on IBM. IBM has been retooling for multiple years. At least a five year journey that they have to do because let's just go down the enterprise cloud readiness matrix that I'm putting together and let's just go through the components and then think about what was old IBM and what's new. Global infrastructure. Compute networking, storage and content delivery, databases, developer tools, security and identity, management tools, analytics, artificial intelligence, Internet of Things, mobile services, enterprise applications, support, hybrid integration, migration, governance and security. Not necessarily in that order. That is IBM, right? So this is a company that has essentially (mumbles) together core competencies across the company and to me, this is the story that no one's talking about at IBM is that it's really hard to take those components and decouple them in a fashion that's cloud enabled. This is where, I think, you're going to start to see the bloom on the rose come out of IBM and this is what I'm looking at because IBM had a little bit here, they had a little bit here, then a little stove pipe over here. Now bringing that together and make it scalable, it's elastic infrastructure. It's going to be really the key to success. >> Well, I think, if again if you breakdown those businesses into growth businesses, the analytics business is almost 20 billion. The cloud business is about 14 billion. Now what IBM does is that they talk about as a service runway of you know, 78 billion so they give you a little dimensions on you know, their financials but that cloud business is growing at 35% a year. The as a service component, let's call it true cloud, is growing over 60% a year. Mobile growing, 35%. Security, 14%. Social, surprisingly is down actually year on year. You would thought that would be a growth theory for them but nonetheless, this strategic initiatives, this goal of being 40 billion by 2018 is fundamental to IBM's future. >> Yeah and the thing too about the enterprise rate is in the numbers, it speaks to them where the action is. So right now the hottest conversations in IT are SLA's. I need SLA's. I have a database strategy that has to be multi-database. So (mumbles) too. Database is a service. This is going to be very very important. They're going to have to come in and support multiple databases and identity and role-based stuff has to happen because now apps, if you go DevOps and you go Watson Data Analytics, you're going to have native data within the stack. So to me, I think, one of the things that IBM can bring to the table is around the enterprise knowledge. The SLA's are actually more important than price and we heard that at Google Next where Google tried it out on their technologies and so, look at all the technology, buy us 'cause we're Google. Not really. It's not so much the price. It's the SLA and where Google is lacking as an example is their SLA's. Amazon has really been suring up the SLA's on the enterprise side but IBM's been here. This is their business. So to me, I think that's going to be something I'm going to look for. As well as the customer testimonials, looking at who's got the hybrid and where the developer actually is. 'Cause I think IoT is the tell sign in the cloud game and I think a lot of people are talking about infrastructures of service but the actual B-platform as a service and the developer action. And to me, that's where I'm looking. >> Well comparing and contrasting, you know, those two companies. Google and Amazon with IBM, I think completely different animals. As you say, you know, Google kind of geeky doesn't really have the enterprise readiness yet although they're trying to talk that game. Diane Green hiring a lot of new people. AWS arguebly has, you know, a bigger lead on the enterprise readiness. Not necessarily relative to IBM but relative to where they were five years ago. But AWS doesn't have the software business that IBM has yet. We'll see. Okay so that's IBM's ace in the hole is the software business. Now having said that, David Kenny got on stage today. So he came out and he's doing his best Jeremy Burton impression. Came out in sort of a James Bond, you know, motif and guys with sunglasses and he announced the IBM Cloud Object Storage Flex. And he said, yes we have a marketing department and they came up with that name. You know, this to me is their clever safe objects tour to compete with S3, you know several years late. After Amazon has announced S3. So they're still showing up some of that core infrastructure but IBM's-- the (mumbles) of IBM strategy is the ability to layer cognitive and their SAS Portfolio on top of Cloud and superglue those things together. Along, of course, with its analytics packages. That's where IBM gets the margin. Not in volume infrastructure as a service. >> I want to get your take on squinting through the marketing messages of IBM and get down to the meat and the bone which is where is the hybrid cloud? Because if you look at what's going on in the cloud, we hear the new terms, lift and shift. Which to me is rip and replace. That's one strategy that Google has to take is if you run (mumbles) and Google, you're kind of cloud native. But IBM is dealing a lot at pre-existing enterprise legacy stuff. Data center and whatnot so the lift and shift is an interesting strategy so the question is, for you is, what does it take for them to be successful? With the data platform, with Watson, with IoT, as enterprise extend from the data center with hybrid. >> Well I think that, you know, again IBM's (mumbles) is the data and the cognitive platform. And what IBM is messaging to your question is that you own your data. We are not going to basically take your data and form our models and then resell your IP. That's what IBM's telling people. Now why don't we dig into that a little bit? 'Cause I don't understand sort of how you separate the data from the models but David Kenny on stage today was explicit. That the other guys, he didn't mention Google and Amazon, but that's who he was talkin' about, are essentially going to be taking your data into their cloud and then informing their models and then essentially training those models and seeping your IP out to your competitors. Now he didn't say that as explicitly as I just did but that's something as a customer that you have to be really careful of. Yes, it's your data. But if data trains the models, who owns the model? You own the data but who owns the model? And how do you protect your IP and keep it out of the hands of the competitors? And IBM is messaging that they are going to help you with the compliance and the governance and the (mumbles) of your organization to protect your IP. That's a big differentiator if in fact there's meat in the bone there. >> Well you mentioned data, that's a key thing. I think whether doing it really quickly is getting the hybrid equation nailed so I think that's going to like just pedal as fast as you can. Get that going. But data first enterprise is really speaks to the IoT opportunity and also the new application developers. So to me, I think, for IBM to be successful, they have to continue to nail this data as value concept. If they can do that, they're going to drive (mumbles) and I think that's their differentiation. You look at, you know, Oracle, Azure, Microsoft Azure and IBM, they're all playing their cards to highlight their differentiation. So. Table stakes infrastructures of service, get some platform as a service, cloud native, open source, all the goodness involved in all the microservices, the containers, Cooper Netties, You're seeing that marker just develop as it's developing. But for IBM to get out front, they have to have a data layer, they have to have a data first strategy and if they do that well, that's going to be consistent with what I think (mumbles). And so, you know, to me I'm going to be poking at that. I'm going to be asking all the guests. What do you think of the data strategy? That's going to be powering the AI, you're seeing artificial intelligence, and things like autonomous vehicles. You're seeing sensors, wearables. Edge of the network is being redefined so I'm going to ask the quests really kind of how that plays out in hybrid? What's your analysis going to be for the guests this week? >> Well, I think the other thing too is the degree to-- to me, a key for IBM success and their ability to grow and dominate in this new world is the degree to which they can take their deep industry expertise in health care, in financial services and certain government sectors and utilities, et cetera. Which comes from their business process, you know, the BPO organization and they're consulting and the PWC acquisition years ago. The extent to which they can take that codifier, put it in the software, marry it with their data analytics and cognitive platforms and then grow that at scale. That would be a huge differentiator for IBM and give them a really massive advantage from a business model standpoint but as I said, 60% of the IBM's business remains services so we got a ways to go. >> Alright. We're going to be drilling into it again. There's a collision between cloud and big data markets coming together that's forming the IoT. You can see machine learning. You can see artificial intelligence. And I'm really a forcing function in cloud acceleration with data analytics being the key thing. This is theCUBE. We'll be getting the data for you for the next three days. I'm John Furrier. With Dave Vellante. We'll be back with more coverage. Kicking off day one of IBM InterConnect 2017 after the short break.

live from Las Vegas Nevada it's the cube at HP discover 2014 brought to you by HP the keynotes this afternoon meg whitman was just on a panel with thomas friedman and intel and satya nadella microsoft and pretty interesting i was it was interesting i'm here with Jeff Rick to note how passionate meg is about politics and government wow I'm she comforted by boat for Bobby Patrick is here we've been drilling down into cloud all day Bobby is the CMO of the HP Cloud Division a lot of new announcements coming on a lot of action and HP Cloud Bobby welcome to the cube yeah thank it's great to be here yeah good to see you so yeah good keynotes good good that was a good refresher you know a lot of these keynotes just products pushing and pushing we had some of that earlier but I thought it was a good eye opening refreshing right kind of discussion so it was very worthwhile but anyway you're relatively new to to HP to run to actually soon how's it going it's great it's exciting i joined it like a great time for the company we were gearing up for the big launch of our new brand HP Helion that that was launched on May seventh so just a little over a month ago and we hit the mark market hard globally it's a complete pull together of all of our products and services around cloud under a single brand customers love it and and it's really reiterated our commitment to OpenStack and you know it's great HP announced the billion dollar commitment to HP Helion over the next two years so it's backed by some some big funding that's a great time to come in so I saw that what is that would help us unpack that billion dollars it was big number right it's popular number right even we aren't buffin right her site Warren Buffett hehe underwrote the whole thing the March Madness right giving away a billion dollars for the perfect bracket right no longer a million does out of the abelian so what is that billion what does it go to what does it comprised yeah I mean it goes 2 r.d where where the most where the most active corporate sponsor behind OpenStack which is the fastest-growing open source project on the planet we are we have more contributors we have more team leads for the different projects and so we're working with the community we're hiring OpenStack experts always looking for the best in the world all around the world and we're then hardening and curating it in making a commercial now with our support and we believe it's the underpinning of the future of what we call hybrid cloud the ability to put some of your information some of your applications with an enterprise some of the public cloud some in different countries that matter for compliance reasons and to be able to move around between those different clouds in a very easy fashion so this money is going to that rd2 skills and to you know truly a global global launch so when you think about the sort of messaging for our HP Cloud what do you want customers to think about in the Helion brand and the HP Cloud yeah the number one thing is commitment to open standards so we are if you heard Martin Fink today talk about HP Labs and they're coming to open source we're all in on open source we believe it's the way to deliver innovation faster we can bring the market tech new technologies faster to customers so we're all into open source we are committed to the projects that matter to the next 20 years of IT and so that could emma has a real though we have to be to prove it with to say you know you can run our software on other hardware we think it'll be we'll have some optimal integrated solutions for you using our entire stack but this is about this is about eliminating vendor lock-in which is one of the biggest challenges at IT departments have faced in the last 20 years and so I think the commitment behind it open is at the core of our messaging so we should mention so Martin fake gave i really liked his presentation i have been safer I don't know for years that HP's got to get back to its roots right which are in fence right and I have not heard until today something that excited me about invention and we saw it today right now invention is not easy all we've talked about a lot that the previous administration cut cut cut by the bone right it takes a long time to turn that's Nisha but but we saw today think was put into that job for very particular reason I said about two things one it's a guy who's going to commercialize inventions answer the marketplace and two there's going to be a heavy systems focus so he basically showed a little leg on the machine which eventually is probably gonna be powering your clouds right he also announced HP is going to put forth a new open source operating system optimized for non-volatile memory not only a blank sheet of paper that they're going to work on with universities but also a Linux derivative stripped-down Linux driven and one for Android that was excited yeah I think what's great also is the cloud business actually falls under market so our our entire business worldwide in our cloud effort our rd on product development is all under martin who runs our CTO of our of our HP labs and when you look at the problems he's addressing with the machine and he's going after it's going after the massive scale challenges of the internet right and the massive scale challenge to the cloud and the day-to-day lose that we're all that we're all facing within the Internet of Things and so you know what's great is by being a part of the labs and being part of Martin's organization you know we're we're injecting that thinking into our cloud we're injecting it into our innovation and and you can see a road map here right you can see this this whole new architecture you talk about architecture that's been in existence since 1950 it was called the von Neumann architecture all the way to now and you know the world with copper at the core you know the world's in need of a new architecture and so it's great to be part of that there's that was a cool talk you talking about electrons photons and ions electrons compute compute autonomy photon photons communicate anions door right and that in essence is the future direction of where HP is going with the machine run a civ massive memory blowing away the volatility hierarchy blowing way ultimately slow spinning disks using memory store right as the platform for future systems I love it yeah he mentioned also but one thing that's close to my heart is the distributed mesh you saw that distributed mesh where we're different different hardware software combinations sit at different points of the you know the net work and they work together you know compute and data and that's really hybrid cloud you know hybrid cloud is putting compute workloads in certain areas and having data stored and distributed for maximum availability and doing that you know with self-service and doing that in a way that you know I see over nations can scale effectively yeah I think that you know as a marketing person you realize that customers want to know that your relevant for their future right and you know as much as I love things like store once it's not the future of computing Ryan comes out HP Labs this potentially is so that's got to have customers really excite this really the first time you've unveiled it right massively in the public scale right maybe you're talking you know that's why that's why i joined the HP i saw that coming out a few months ago and the the new style of IT thinking we're we're saying you know we're radically going to be at the core of helping IT transition from the old style very inward to a customer centric style 21 you know where you're delivering the customer you know consumer experience in the business world and i saw that with HP and it got me excited and i joined on board not upside yeah the other part that Martin mentioned I no idea of the power of HP Labs but the leveraging open source as well which are I probably not a tool in the arsenal not that long ago to really bring the power of a large communities engaged you can attack right specific problems and make that a core piece of the of the process yeah we think about it we've got thousands of the world's best developers right the Millennial developers these guys working all around the clock working on you know our core cloud future called OpenStack contributing to that right including our experts and then we're taking that and then bringing it to market you know into providing that twenty four seven support testing and hardening it you know doing the things need to do to help it enterprise feel comfortable with that decision you could never do that we could never do that and deliver that kind of innovation on our own just couldn't afford it we wouldn't be able to deliver on it you know these are the best minds of the world who are contributing this and we're we're all in nope in fact so you talked about we talked about what the brand is stand for you said open no lock-in can open source innovation occur at a pace with somebody who's got full control of a stack it's much faster actually I mean this is the you watch the innovation of OpenStack it's only what four years old we just at a four-year birthday of OpenStack already that's an entire cloud computing platform you've got databases service projects like trove you've got object storage projects like Swift and block storage like Senator you know all of these things are being worked on by people around the world you could never deliver and so what's happening is the pace of innovation with an open source project like OpenStack is like it's a hockey stick and and so I think yeah I think if we did this ourselves we or anyone else you would never be able to deliver the kind of innovation it's coming to market now we talked about some of the announcements you guys know why don't we actually go back a month right but Helion and then work through today we've got some HPC announcements you got the network you know for Helion right start with Helia so what's great about healing on is is it really brought together a lot of great products and services of the cloud that already existed and it took OpenStack and it was our first foray into the market with an OpenStack distribution and what's important actually is we have technology one called HP cloud system that is actually the most popular cloud platform right now private cloud platform on the planet about almost two thousand users right or two thousand companies third of the Fortune 100 right now using that technology so it is a proven capable platform used by big banks and others we're injecting OpenStack into that so that you can you can over time scale that out with new applications and so the launch really was about pulling all the pieces together pulling our support and services together and saying to a customer you know with confidence here's here's our cloud portfolio and here's how we can take you on a journey it's your pace and accelerate that journey take advantage of that cloud portfolio and that was really the launch month ago today and it discover I mean only a month later we've already done a number of great things but one is we brought out OpenStack the commercial version so we've launched community one you can download it thousands of downloads already the commercial versions coming up now and we announced pricing and what we are all about here this is what it really really important we are about accelerating the adoption of OpenStack throughout the enterprise we're about breaking down the barriers that have that have inhibited the proliferation of this great technology so one of those things today was the price point we announced 1000 for three dollars per year per server all in price point for HP Helion OpenStack and that's critical because this is a scale out a scale-out product you're going to have dozens hundreds maybe even thousands of these all around the world and so the price point is it's disruptive it's the lowest of the planet and and you know we said it's gonna be simple and easy we're not going to do all of this good better best packaging it's it's super easy and that's a big part of today the other part of today as we said you know what we're going to work with partners we're going to deploy this all around the world and that was the helium Network announcement along with ATT and the British Telecom and Intel and that's that's just huge for today now now helium comprises both on-premise in an HP public cloud correct that's right so talk about how that pricing works I mean I like what you're saying simple because cloud pricing is really complicated yeah so we use we wear that we're probably the largest user of OpenStack in production in production today without public cloud so we use it and people can consume services from that buy them on a on a you know on an as you go basis but with OpenStack which you what's really happening is people are able to deploy their own private clouds right they're able to a service provider could deploy and build their own public cloud so when I talk about the price point talking about a customer building their own cloud building their own cloud and a third party data center or in one of HP's 82 data centers and that that price point is is is you know it's easy easy to use you can predict it in your business model and feel comfortable about what it's going to cost you know two three four years out and so help me understand let's unpack that a little bit what am I getting for that fourteen hundred dollars per so you get the entire so this is what's amazing you get the entire cloud operating system called OpenStack right you get all of the projects now that are part of the OpenStack bill you're getting a top you're getting an object story it's it's a you know a la amazon s3 but in a box called Swift right with a swift API and you can build that and do that yourself now you can do that in a way that controls that gives you full control and full flexibility you get databases the service product you get a cute engine with cinder grizzly everything that's right no lad for the computer and so you get all of this in that box all of this and you can go deploy this and you can benefit now from the thousands of developers who are every six weeks putting out new code and innovative so okay so all the new innovations will fall under that umbrella and that's right at any price they choose to use you might say I'm just building a cloud storage environment you might choose to be heavy on Swift that's what you're doing but it is all inclusive and you can use the entire cloud platform or you can build a storage platform or databases a service platform that's a different model clearly what a customer is telling you about that yeah so they well they want they want the control and the flexibility of having their own platform for you know security reasons their own for compliance they want to put their data you know in their own centers but they're also saying I want to use public cloud some too and I like the idea that if OpenStack is here and OpenStack is here right same code bases I can fairly easily take a workload take an application to go from here to here and back and forth that kind of flexibility call interoperability and that's what's coming down the road with OpenStack underneath is something that does not exist today is everybody wants make sure I understand so I'm paid 1400 hours per server for that OpenStack instance on-premise and then when I want to access public cloud services I'm what you would pay an answer you might want to burst you might want to just go do you might have some peak demand he's burst out there you pay for and I would vote for money to make your partner of ours yep excellent now you also had some hpc announcements that's right so there's a number what's great is HP now is people are taking Helion OpenStack and they're putting it in their products are hpc group a high-performance computing group said hey we want to have a self-service mechanism we want to be able to scale out sap architecture people want in that in hpc so they put OpenStack inside their solution and launched it today and so it's you know OpenStack and better than hpc open hybrid simple to consume is what I'm that's right that's right it's ductable and predictable all right good Dave Lisa Marie wrote the book on this so this is great if you don't believe Bobby Lisa came I gave me this right gave me the books it's the OpenStack technology breaking the enterprise barrier you've got it you got it it's one of the best best reads on the planet right now yeah excellent all right so what does it go to the next level what is it I'm just buying computer part of just I'm just getting capacity if you just want capacity you might say you might just build a storage cloud yourself or you might use the our public cloud storage or with our Helia network our partners around the world be deploying OpenStack and you can buy it from them awesome all right we got to leave it there Bobby thanks so much for coming to the cube is a pleasure meantime take it all right keep it right to everybody John furrier is in the house he's back from San Francisco or San Jose good to have him back John keep right there but back with job fair in just a moment

>> wait. >> Okay, We're back. We are in Cambridge, Massachusetts. This is Dave Volante. I'm here with Jeff Kelly. Where with Wicked Bond. This is the Cube Silicon Angles production. We're here at the Mighty Information Quality Symposium in the heart of database design and development. We've had some great guests on Scott Hauser is here. He's the head of marketing at Adapt Company that we've introduced to our community. You know, quite some time ago, Um, really bringing multiple channels into the Duke Duke ecosystem and helping make sense out of all this data bringing insights to this data. Scott, welcome back to the Cube. >> Thanks for having me. It's good to be here. >> So this this notion of data quality, the reason why we asked you to be on here today is because first of all, you're a practitioner. Umm, you've been in the data warehousing world for a long, long time. So you've struggled with this issue? Um, people here today, uh, really from the world of Hey, we've been doing big data for a long time. This whole big data theme is nothing new to us. Sure, but there's a lot knew. Um, and so take us back to your days as a zoo. A data practitioner. Uh, data warehousing, business intelligence. What were some of the data quality issues that you faced and how did you deal with him? So >> I think a couple of points to raise in that area are no. One of things that we like to do is try and triangulate on user to engage them. And every channel we wanted to go and bring into the fold, creating unique dimension of how do we validate that this is the same person, right? Because each channel that you engage with has potentially different requirements of, um, user accreditation or, ah, guarantee of, you know, single user fuel. That's why I think the Holy Grail used to be in a lot of ways, like single sign on our way to triangulate across the spirit systems, one common identity or person to make that world simple. I don't think that's a reality in the in the sense that when you look at, um, a product provider or solution provider and a customer that's external, write those those two worlds Avery spirit and there was a lot of channels and pitch it potentially even third party means that I might want to engage this individual by. And every time I want to bring another one of those channels online, it further complicates. Validating who? That person eighty. >> Okay, so So when you were doing your data warehouse thing again as an I t practitioner, Um, you have you You try to expand the channels, but every time he did that and complex if I hide the data source So how did you deal with that problem? So just create another database and stole five Everything well, >> unfortunately, absolutely creates us this notion of islands of information throughout the enterprise. Because, as you mentioned, you know, we define a schema effectively a new place, Um, data elements into that schema of how you identified how you engage in and how you rate that person's behaviors or engagement, etcetera. And I think what you'd see is, as you'd bring on new sources that timeto actually emerge those things together wasn't in the order of days or weeks. It's on months and years. And so, with every new channel that became interesting, you further complicate the problem and effectively, What you do is, you know, creating these pools of information on you. Take extracts and you try and do something to munch the data and put in a place where you give access to an analyst to say, Okay, here's it. Another, um, Sample said a day to try and figure out of these things. Align and you try and create effectively a new schema that includes all the additional day that we just added. >> So it's interesting because again, one of the themes that we've been hearing a lot of this conference and hear it a lot in many conferences, not the technology. It's the people in process around the technology. That's certainly any person person would agree with that. But at the same time, the technology historically has been problematic, particularly data. Warehouse technology has been challenging you. So you've had toe keep databases relatively small and despair, and you had to build business processes around those that's right a basis. So you've not only got, you know, deficient technology, if you will, no offense, toe data, warehousing friends, but you've got ah, process creep that's actually fair. That's occurred, and >> I think you know what is happening is it's one of the things that's led to sort of the the revolution it's occurring in the market right now about you know, whether it's the new ecosystem or all the tangential technologies around that. Because what what's bound not some technology issues in the past has been the schema right. As important as that is because it gives people a very easy way to interact with the data. It also creates significant challenges when you want to bring on these unique sources of information. Because, you know, as you look at things that have happened over the last decade, the engagement process for either a consumer, a prospect or customer have changed pretty dramatically, and they don't all have the same stringent requirements about providing information to become engaged that way. So I think where the schema has, you know, has value you obviously, in the enterprise, it also has a lot of, um, historical challenges that brings along with >> us. So this jump movement is very disruptive to the traditional market spaces. Many folks say it isn't traditional guy, say, say it isn't but clearly is, particularly as you go Omni Channel. I threw that word out earlier on the channels of discussion that we had a dupe summit myself. John Ferrier, Hobby lobby meta and as your and this is something that you guys are doing that bringing in data to allow your customers to go Omni Channel. As you do that, you start again. Increase the complexity of the corpus of data at the same time. A lot of a lot of times into do you hear about scheme alight ski, but less so how do you reconcile the Omni Channel? The scheme of less It's their scheme alight. And the data quality >> problems, Yes, I think for, you know, particular speaking about adapt one of things that we do is we give customers the ability to take and effectively dump all that data into one common repository that is HD if s and do and leverage some of those open source tools and even their own, you know, inventions, if you will, you know, with m R code pig, whatever, and allow them to effectively normalized data through it orations and to do and then push that into tables effectively that now we can give access to the sequel interface. Right? So I think for us the abilities you're absolutely right. The more channels. You, Khun, give access to write. So this concept of anomie channel where Irrespective of what way we engaged with a customer what way? They touch us in some way. Being able to provide those dimensions of data in one common repository gives the marketeer, if you will, an incredible flexibility and insights that were previous, Who'd be discoverable >> assuming that data qualities this scene >> right of all these So so that that was gonna be my question. So what did the data quality implications of using something like HD FSB. You're essentially scheme unless you're just dumping data and essentially have a raw format and and it's raw format. So now you've gotto reconcile all these different types of data from different sources on build out that kind of single view of a customer of a product, Whatever, whatever is yours. You're right. >> So how do you go >> about doing that in that kind of scenario? So I think the repository in Hindu breach defense himself gives you that one common ground toa workin because you've got, you know, no implications of schema or any other preconceived notions about how you're going toe to toe massage weight if you will, And it's about applying logic and looking for those universal ides. There are a bunch of tools around that are focused on this, but applying those tools and it means that doesn't, um, handy captain from the start by predisposing them to some structure. And you want them to decipher or call out that through whether it's began homegrown type scripts, tools that might be upstairs here and then effectively normalizing the data and moving it into some structure where you can interact with it on in a meaningful way. So that really the kind the old way of trying to bring, you know, snippets of the data from different sources into ah, yet another database where you've got a play structure that takes time, months and years in some cases. And so Duke really allows you to speed up that process significantly by basically eliminating that that part of the equation. Yeah, I think there's and there's a bunch of dimensions we could talk about things like even like pricing exercises, right quality of triangulating on what that pricing should be per product for geography, for engagement, etcetera. I think you see that a lot of those types of work. Let's have transitioned from, you know, mainframe type environments, environments of legacy to the Duke ecosystem. And we've seen cases where people talk about they're going from eight month, you know, exercises to a week. And I think that's where the value of this ecosystem in you know, the commodity scalability really provides you with flexibility. That was just previously you unachievable. >> So could you provide some examples either >> you know, your own from your own career or from some customers you're seeing in terms of the data quality implications of the type of work they're doing. So one of our kind of *** is that you know the data quality measures required for any given, uh, use case various, in some cases, depending on the type of case. You know, in depending on the speed that you need, the analysis done, uh, the type of data quality or the level data qualities going is going to marry. Are you seeing that? And if >> so, can you give some examples of the different >> types of way data quality Gonna manifest itself in a big data were close. Sure. So I think that's absolutely fair. And you know. Obviously there's there's gonna be some trade off between accuracy and performance, right? And so you have to create some sort of confidence coefficient part, if you will, that you know, within some degree of probability this is good enough, right? And there's got to be some sort of balance between that actor Jerseyan time Um, some of the things that you know I've seen a lot of customers being interested in is it is a sort of market emerging around providing tools for authenticity of engagement. So it's an example. You know, I may be a large brand, and I have very, um, open channels that I engage somebody with my B e mail might be some Web portal, etcetera, and there's a lot of fishing that goes on out there, right? And so people fishing for whether it's brands and misrepresenting themselves etcetera. And there's a lot of, you know, desire to try and triangulate on data quality of who is effectively positioned themselves as me, who's really not me and being able to sort of, you know, take a cybersecurity spin and started to block those things down and alleviate those sort of nefarious activities. So We've seen a lot of people using our tool to effectively understand and be able to pinpoint those activities based upon behavior's based upon, um, out liars and looking at examples of where the engagement's coming from that aren't authentic if that >> makes you feel any somewhat nebulous but right. So using >> analytics essentially to determine the authenticity of a person of intensity, of an engagement rather than taking more rather than kind of looking at the data itself using pattern detection to determine. But it also taking, you know, there's a bunch of, um, there's a bunch of raw data that exists out there that needs you when you put it together again. Back to this notion of this sort of, you know, landing zone, if you will, or Data Lake or whatever you wanna call it. You know, putting all of this this data into one repository where now I can start to do you know, analytics against it without any sort of pre determined schema. And start to understand, you know, are these people who are purporting to be, you know, firm X y Z are there really from X y Z? And if they're not, where these things originating and how, when we start to put filters or things in place to alleviate those sort of and that could apply, it sounds like to certainly private industry. But, I mean, >> it sounds like >> something you know, government would be very interested in terms ofthe, you know, in the news about different foreign countries potentially being the source of attacks on U. S. Corporations are part of the, uh, part of our infrastructure and trying to determine where that's coming from and who these people are. And >> of course, people were trying to get >> complicated because they're trying to cover up their tracks, right? Certainly. But I think that the most important thing in this context is it's not necessarily about being able to look at it after the fact, but it's being able to look at a set of conditions that occur before these things happen and identify those conditions and put controls in place to alleviate the action from taking place. I think that's where when you look at what is happening from now an acceleration of these models and from an acceleration of the quality of the data gathering being able to put those things into place and put effective controls in place beforehand is changing. You know the loss prevention side of the business and in this one example. But you're absolutely right. From from what I see and from what our customers were doing, it is, you know, it's multi dimensional in that you know this cyber security. That's one example. There's pricing that could be another example. There's engagements from, ah, final analysis or conversion ratio that could be yet another example. So I think you're right in it and that it is ubiquitous. >> So when you think about the historical role of the well historical we had Stewart on earlier, he was saying, the first known chief data officer we could find was two thousand three. So I guess that gives us a decade of history. But if you look back at the hole, I mean data quality. We've been talking about that for many, many decades. So if you think about the traditional or role of an organization, trying tio achieved data quality, single version of the truth, information, quality, information value and you inject it with this destruction of a dupe that to me anyway, that whole notion of data quality is changing because in certain use, cases inference just fine. Um, in false positives are great. Who cares? That's right. Now analyzing Twitter data from some cases and others like healthcare and financial services. It's it's critical. But so how do you see the notion of data quality evolving and adapting to this >> new world? Well, I think one of these you mentioned about this, you know, this single version of the truth was something that was, you know, when I was on the other side of the table, >> they were beating you over the head waken Do this, We >> can do this, and it's It's something that it sounds great on paper. But when you look at the practical implications of trying to do it in a very finite or stringent controlled way, it's not practical for the business >> because you're saying that the portions of your data that you can give a single version of the truth on our so small because of the elapsed time That's right. I think there's that >> dimension. But there's also this element of time, right and the time that it takes to define something that could be that rigid and the structure months. It's months, and by that time a lot of the innovations that business is trying to >> accomplish. The eyes have changed. The initiatives has changed. Yeah, you lost the sale. Hey, but we got the data. It would look here. Yeah, I think that's your >> right. And I think that's what's evolving. I think there's this idea that you know what Let's fail fast and let's do a lot of it. Orations and the flexibility it's being provided out in that ecosystem today gives people an opportunity. Teo iterated failed fast, and you write that you set some sort of, you know confidence in that for this particular application. We're happy with you in a percent confidence. Go fish. You are something a little >> bit, but it's good enough. So having said that now, what can we learn from the traditional date? A quality, you know, chief data officer, practitioners, those who've been very dogmatic, particularly in certain it is what can we learn from them and take into this >> new war? I think from my point of view on what my experience has always been is that those individuals have an unparalleled command of the business and have an appreciation for the end goal that the business is trying to accomplish. And it's taking that instinct that knowledge and applying that to the emergence of what's happening in the technology world and bringing those two things together. I think it's It's not so much as you know, there's a practical application in that sense of Okay, here's the technology options that we have to do these, you know, these desired you engaged father again. It's the pricing engagement, the cyber security or whatever. It's more. How could we accelerate what the business is trying to accomplish and applying this? You know, this technology that's out there to the business problem. I think in a lot of ways, you know, in the past it's always been here. But this really need technology. How can I make it that somewhere? And now I think those folks bring a lot of relevance to the technology to say Hey, here's a problem. Trying to solve legacy methodologies haven't been effective. Haven't been timely. Haven't been, uh, scaleable. Whatever hock me. Apply what's happening. The market today to these problems. >> Um, you guys adapt in particular to me any way a good signal of the maturity model and with the maturity of a dupe, it's It's starting to grow up pretty rapidly, you know, See, due to two auto. And so where are we had? What do you see is the progression, Um, and where we're going. >> So, you know, I mentioned it it on the cue for the last time it So it and I said, I believe that you know who do busy operating system of big data. And I believe that, you know, there's a huge transition taking place that was there were some interesting response to that on Twitter and all the other channels, but I stand behind that. I think that's really what's happening. Lookit. You know what people are engaging us to do is really start to transition away from the legacy methodologies and they're looking at. He's not just lower cost alternatives, but also more flexibility. And we talked about, you know, its summit. The notion of that revenue curve right and cost takeouts great on one side of the coin, and I are one side of the defense here. But I think equally and even more importantly, is the change in the revenue curve and the insights that people they're finding because of these unique channels of the Omni Challenge you describe being able to. So look at all these dimensions have dated one. Unified place is really changing the way that they could go to market. They could engage consumers on DH that they could provide access to the analyst. Yeah. I mean, ultimately, that's the most >> we had. Stewart Madness con who's maybe got written textbooks on operating systems. We probably use them. I know I did. Maybe they were gone by the time you got there, but young, but the point being, you know, a dupe azan operating system. The notion of a platform is really it's changing dramatically. So, um, I think you're right on that. Okay. So what's what's next for you guys? Uh, we talked about, you know, customer attraction and proof points. You're working. All right on that. I know. Um, you guys got a great tech, amazing team. Um, what's next for >> you? So I think it's it's continuing toe. Look at the market in being flexible with the market around as the Hughes case is developed. So, you know, obviously is a startup We're focused in a couple of key areas where we see a lot of early adoption and a lot of pain around the problem that we can solve. But I think it's really about continuing to develop those use cases, um, and expanded the market to become more of a, you know, a holistic provider of Angelique Solutions on top of a >> house. Uh, how's Cambridge working out for you, right? I mean, the company moved up from the founders, moved up from New Haven and chose shows the East Coast shows cameras were obviously really happy about. That is East Coast people. You don't live there full time, but I might as well. So how's that working out talent pool? You know, the vibrancy of the community, the the you know, the young people that you're able to tap. So >> I see there's a bunch of dimensions around that one. It's hot. It's really, really hot >> in human, Yes, but it's been actually >> fantastic. And if you look it not just a town inside the team, but I think around the team. So if you look at our board right Jet Saxena. Chris Lynch, I've been very successful. The database community over decades of experience, you know, and getting folks like that onto the board fell. The Hardiman has been, you know, in this space as well for a long time. Having folks like that is, you know, advisors and providing guidance to the team. Absolutely incredible. Hack Reduce is a great facility where we do things like hackathons meet ups get the community together. So I think there's been a lot of positive inertia around the company just being here in Cambridge. But, you know, from AA development of resource or recruiting one of you. It's also been great because you've got some really exceptional database companies in this area, and history will show you like there's been a lot of success here, not only an incubating technology, but building real database companies. And, you know, we're on start up on the block that people are very interested in, and I think we show a lot of, you know, dynamics that are changing in the market and the way the markets moving. So the ability for us to recruit talent is exceptional, right? We've got a lot of great people to pick from. We've had a lot of people joined from no other previously very successful database companies. The team's growing, you know, significantly in the engineering space right now. Um, but I just you know, I can't say enough good things about the community. Hack, reduce and all the resource is that we get access to because we're here in Cambridge. >> Is the hacker deuces cool? So you guys are obviously leveraging that you do how to bring people into the Sohag produces essentially this. It's not an incubator. It's really more of a an idea cloud. It's a resource cloud really started by Fred Lan and Chris Lynch on DH. Essentially, people come in, they share ideas. You guys I know have hosted a number of how twos and and it's basically open. You know, we've done some stuff there. It's it's very cool. >> Yeah, you know, I think you know, it's even for us. It's also a great place to recruit, right. We made a lot of talented people there, and you know what? The university participation as well We get a lot of talent coming in, participate in these activities, and we do things that aren't just adapt related, that we've had people teach had obsessions and just sort of evangelize what's happening in the ecosystem around us. And like I said, it's just it's been a great resource pool to engage with. And, uh, I think it's been is beneficial to the community, as it has been to us. So very grateful for that. >> All right. Scott has always awesome. See, I knew you were going to have some good practitioner perspectives on data. Qualities really appreciate you stopping by. My pleasure. Thanks for having to see you. Take care. I keep right to everybody right back with our next guest. This is Dave a lot. They would. Jeff Kelly, this is the Cube. We're live here at the MIT Information Quality Symposium. We'LL be right back.