(upbeat music) >> Hi, I'm Lauren Cooney, and welcome back to theCUBE. Today we have Jeff Frick with us, who is the general manager of theCUBE, and we're here to learn about what goes on at theCUBE, what the business is like, some of the most fun aspects of what he does, and go from there. >> Jeff: Great to be here. >> Thank you so much. So, Jeff, starting out, really, when did you join theCUBE, and really what are your goals and aspirations for theCUBE as you look to business going forward now? >> My first CUBE gig was, I've known John for a long, long time, reached out. It was actually Splunk.conf 2012 in the Cosmo, I'll never forget, and they needed an extra host, we were over-subscribed, and I went and did that show. I did it with Jeff Kelley, and was really touched by this format where you've got kind of this professional looking, newsy, opportunity for people to tell their story, most people don't ever get to tell their story in that context, which I thought was pretty cool. And then also just to personalize the people behind the tech because since Steve Jobs, and that genre of people, people want to know who the people are behind the technology. So not only the people that run the companies, but who creates it. I think Open-source had a lot to do with that where people are interested in other people, not just the tech for itself. And that's what I really like. >> You bring up a great point with stories, and luminaries, and visionaries. Can you talk about some of those folks that you've had on theCUBE, some of the best guests you've ever had? >> Oh my gosh, we've had so much. People ask me this all the time, I need to prepare my answer better. But like Scott Cook, from Intuit, was just phenomenal. Tremendously successful, still focused on the same core vision that he came up with when his wife was filling out her checkbook, writing checks, about just a better way to organize and manage cash. And that show is so inspirational because it's really a small business show pretending to be an accounting show. We've had Robert Gates on, I didn't get to interview Robert Gates, but served with many, many President's. We're really fortunate, we often get the keynotes. Fred Luddy, from ServiceNow, phenomenal founder, goofy, quirky. Maria Klawe who runs Harvey Mudd College, goofy, quirky, great personality. So there's just so many great individuals and then some that you don't know. We had, an original ServiceNow we had this little older lady who had got a ServiceNow POC through, it's some ancient company, I don't even remember what company it was, and it was just fascinating to me how this, you know, she wasn't young and hip and new and on top of things, was able to kind of see the vision, get it funded, get a project underway, and then eventually build into being a customer for them. And how she was able to do that, and what was the story, and how many peers out there are curious to know how they could do that for their company. And those, I love those stories. >> Those are great. And I think one of the things that we want to look at too is that we want to understand for the most part what are some of the bloopers that you've seen out there? What are some of the things that you've noticed that are funny or were oh my gosh, you know, while you were on air, while you were thinking about different things. Can you tell me a little bit about that? >> Well, of course, the classic one that we've referenced over and over and over, and if you've seen any of our promos you see, it was John Cleese. Ironically again, at another ServiceNow keynote he was doing their CIO Summit or something, and he came on and he basically decided he wanted to rewrite the end of the, it became a sketch, not an interview. And just stood up and threw his water all over John and Dave, fried Dave's laptop, and marched off the stage. Half the people there, we had a huge live audience, were laughing hysterically. The other half were petrified. Unfortunately, a number of those were the client senior executives who didn't really know, and we had to go out and do some investigation and find out he actually does it a lot to people. And in fact the guys ran into him later that night and he said, "Wasn't that fun, wasn't that fun?" So that's one that just jumps right off the page. Another great one was Michael North from the NFL was at an IBM event talking about how they build the schedule. And while the analytics are fine, and you run an algorithm and it can plug a bunch of numbers, it's really the softer side. You know, how do you leverage at that point a Peyton Manning versus a Tom Brady match up? Do you use it to leverage an existing relationship? Do you use it to build a new network? Do you use it in your feature presentation to get the most leverage from that asset? So a whole lot of kind of soft, softer sided things in terms of the decision making. Which I think is what's really interesting. >> Yeah, I think that's great. And I want to take it a little bit further into what are the business aspects of theCUBE? What do you do on a day to day basis? What are the things that matter the most for running this business? >> Big question. So most important area is our customers. So what customer, what value does theCUBE bring to people when they take us to their conference? >> Lauren: And who are the key customers? >> Well key customers, right. IBM, and we've mentioned ServiceNow, Splunk, EMC, Dell EMC now, Vmware and their ecosystem partners. So a lot of enterprise infrastructure, a lot of opensource, and a lot of applications. But really there's three key components to why people bring theCUBE and what we deliver when we're there. One of them is just great content. The format that we have, the conversational tone, the way that it all works, we just get people to say stuff that you wouldn't ever ask them to say, especially on the customer reference ones. So the content is great and, you know, conferences are looking for more great content. The second really is our community and our distribution. You know we are a media company, we're super active in the community, we leverage a lot of social tools. We try to ask interviews and get information that's topical and evergreen and can be used often and over and over, and really run that out through a number of different channels and different formats. And then the third thing, which we didn't use to talk about as much, but we really do now, it's really the theater of our presence. There's something to bright lights and cameras when theCUBE is at an event. It's like, oh, theCUBE guys are here. And we hear it all the time, theCUBE guys are here. >> Everyone likes to be a star. >> Everybody wants to be a star. And it does a little bit of, I won't say validates for the greater good, but certainly within our community when we're at an event it's a signal that something's going on, something's exciting here, theCUBE guys are here, and we're covering it. And we hear that over and over. We have people stop us literally in an elevator to say, I look at your guys' upcoming sheet to make some decisions as to where I should plan my schedule time. And, or we've also heard, you know, I just wait and watch theCUBE all day, I can't go, I just have theCUBE running in the background. And get a taste of not necessarily what happened in all the breakouts and all the keynotes and all the other stuff, but we generally get all the same people who run all the keynotes. You're getting those same folks, but you're getting them in a conversational tone, talking often about many of the similar topics, it's just a different way to get that message across. >> So how do you grow the community further? So you talk about the community you have, you talk about the community that's at large right now. How are you looking to grow your user base and your community further? >> Right, so it's really kind of along two angles. One is kind of this natural bundling of subsets within our existing community. And that's like our Women in Tech coverage that we started years ago. Honestly, you know things were kind of slowing again in November, so we're like, you know, there's some great women, they're not getting highlighted, let's go out and do some Women in Tech interviews and integrate that. So that's kind of more of a horizontal play if you will. In terms of more vertical plays, we're trying to get a little bit out of the application infrastructure space and more into the app space. So autonomous vehicles, autonomous drones, commercial drones, we've done a lot of just app shows as companies do their own shows versus more of an industry show. So like I said, I mentioned QuickBooks Connect was fun. So really getting into some of these other areas that are more application specific and not just kind of infrastructure, per se which is the roots. >> So when you so application specific, are you looking at for example, you know Microsoft for example is a very large company. They have application space. Is that what you're looking for? >> Love to do some Microsoft shows, yeah, we have a Microsoft build and Ignite, they have a number of shows. >> What about Salesforce? Salesforce is doing some really interesting stuff around applications and community and the whole nine yards. >> Right, so before we didn't really go after Salesforce per se, 'cause it was just really big and we were just really small, we were trying to get a lot of our processes and structure in place. Since then we actually covered one Salesforce lightly a couple years back. A friend of mine, Lynn Voinovich, was a CMO and we covered the kick off. >> I love Lynn. >> You know Lynn? But we need to get back to Salesforce, that's one that we should be at, it's an important show, we should be there. >> Great, so let's have, let's kind of end here with a fun fact. So tell me a fun fact about your job or something that you do that perhaps people don't know about. >> A fun fact about my job. Just, it's just a lot. >> Lauren: Let's make it fun, not a lot of work. >> Basically our job is kind of like the proverbial duck, right? When we run production, we do about a hundred shows a year. There is, I always tell people it's like catering. There's about a thousand details that you kind of have some idea about, and there's a thousand ideas, there's a thousand issues that you have just no control. So being able to dance, being able to be like that proverbial duck that looks smooth, and cool, calm, and collected on top, but it's really pumping pretty hard underneath, you know we've got a lot of people, we've got a lot of back end processes, we have a lot of dancing that happens to try to make it really smooth for the guests, really smooth for the consumer. And we screw up and things happen. But I think we're pretty good, and we're constantly trying to improve our process. >> Great, thank you so much, and thank you for being here again. >> Thank you. >> I really appreciate your time. And we'll be back shortly on theCUBE with something that is coming up in about 15 minutes. (techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel and their ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. Here live on theCUBE, which we continue our day one coverage of AWS re:Invent, along Lauren Cooney. I'm John Walls and 40,000 of our best friends. >> Closest friends. >> That's right. It's a great venue. The Sands is. We're joined now by Tyson Clark. He's the technical director of Air Bud Entertainment. Tyson, thanks for joining us here on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> First off, let's talk about Air Bud. I mean so, you guys made Air Bud, right? >> We did. >> And you have other projects going as well? >> Yep. Right now we're working on a TV series for Disney. It's going to be about 22 episodes teaching how puppies become puppies while their owners are at school. >> How puppies become puppies? >> How puppies become puppies! >> Coming to a theater, maybe a TV channel near you? >> Disney Streaming. >> Disney Streaming? Good enough, fair enough. >> Aw, very cool. >> Alright tell us about technical director. So, you're the IT guy. >> I am the IT guy. >> You're handling a multitude of problems from a lot of different stakeholders. Tell us about it. >> So I do everything from password reset and the easy stuff all the way up to the most complicated, setting up our whole network, rendered farms, et cetera. >> So you're doing full stack IT? >> I'm doing absolutely everything. Full stack, everything. >> That's pretty impressive. >> A rare breed. >> It is. It's definitely a hand full. >> What do you work on that I would say, we've been talking to folks, like Cohesity and things along those lines. Do you use Cohesity? What are some of the things that you do with them? >> I definitely use Cohesity for our backups. They are a lifesaver. Tape backup just wasn't cutting it for us. We were generating way too much data to be able back it up to tape. Cohesity has allowed us to backup to that and pass it off to the cloud for archival. >> Well, wow. >> Sp what, in terms of the entertainment company, you talk about the data that their generating. >> Yes. >> I mean what are they trying to keep track of? What are you trying to do for them in that respect that hasn't been done before? >> So what we're doing is when we film something, we don't want to get rid of those assets. They're pretty expensive to make. So, we got to hold on to them. We got to make sure they're all recorded. We pass it off to the cloud for archival and then, next movie, say we need a dog from that movie, or an object we built. We can always bring it back and then reuse it. >> From a security standpoint, because there have been some instances-- >> Some pretty bad ones, yep. >> Where's that fit on your pyramid of concern? >> That's extremely high. In the media entertainment business it's very strict on what security rules are. We're right up there. It's pretty much number one. >> Great, so what do you hear? What's interesting for you here at AWS re:Invent? >> Pardon me? >> What is interesting for you here at AWS re:Invent? What are the things that you see as exciting and that you really want to put your hands on? >> Well, what I'm really interested in right is being able to burst in the cloud. So I'm trying to find a solution that will let me scale out my render farm on demand, instantly, pretty much. So, going up to, who knows how many cores. Just to get that render through so we can get our shots done in time. >> Great, anyone that you're looking at here? >> Not yet. Still trying to look around and find someone. >> Very cool. >> A lot of good contenders. >> So what is it in terms of how your job has evolved? If you had to cite, these are probably two or three of maybe the larger concerns that we've had that are being addressed now and fast forward that to next step, next iteration about what kind of, if there's anything that keeps you up at night, what that is? >> Well, what keeps me up at night right now is switching to 4K. A lot of people think you just flip the switch, it's easy, but that means we have four times the amount of data. It takes twice as long to render. It takes four times longer to move things around. It just, it's insane. >> So you're really excited about 5G? >> 5G will help, but right now we're looking at quadrupling pretty much all our storage. It's going to be a very exciting time and a very scary time for us. >> Who are you stakeholders, internally, and how do you handle them? Because I assume that its a dispersate group. You've got a lot of different people with a lot of different priorities, and because you're wearing that IT hat, you're the guy. You're the department that everybody's coming to for answers. >> The biggest person I deal with, personally is the CFO. The other one is the CEO, and they're both worried because I'm telling them I need to buy $5 million worth of infrastructure. The only way I can justify that is showing them. Hey look, it's working better than it was ever before. It's a better product every day. >> Yeah and we're seeing that more and more across the board with IT really having to be the partner of the CFO to actually get the budget to do what you want to do. I think that's pretty consistent for organizations that want to move forward. >> And the budgets are just getting bigger and bigger unfortunately. >> Do you find that rationalizing becomes, is a more critical factor now? >> Absolutely. Before you could get away with a lot smaller, like 10 terabytes was great. Now we're looking at petabytes. It's definitely, rationalizing is needed a lot more now. >> Is there anybody beyond the CFO? I would assume. You're got a lot of people knocking, or CFO, a lot of people knocking on your door. Hey Tyson. I need this, I need this. >> The CFO and the CEO are two best friends, and they're both the top dogs. They're the ones kind of running the whole show there. I'm pretty lucky in that aspect. >> What are you going to do to help solve their problems? Say in the coming year, if you had to say, okay this is going to be a bottleneck. This is going to be a problem. This is how I'm going to address it. What would that be for you in 2019? >> The biggest bottleneck, like I said, is just going to be data. We've got to get four time more or our Isilon. We've got to get four time more of our Qumulo. We've also have to get four times more of our Cohesity, and that's the main part. If we don't have that cohesity, we're done. >> Well I can solve a problem for you for next year. If you're looking for another dog, Lauren's got this gorgeous mix of dane lab. About 120 pounder. >> His name is Milo. He'd be perfect for a film. >> Milo, all right. >> Perfect. >> Just let us know if you need help next year. >> Absolutely. As long as that dog loves treats. >> I'm sure that's not a problem. Tyson, thanks for being with us. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much. >> We'll continue our coverage here, live on theCUBE. We're at AWS re:Invent in Las Vegas. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's the Cube, covering AWS re:Invent 2018! Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. It's the Cube's live coverage here in Las Vegas, at AWS re:Invent 2018. I'm John Furrier, here with Lauren Cooney. Host of the Cube: Amazon web services. There are maybe 2,000 people here at their event, re:Invent annual conference, breaking it all down. Storage, computer networking, part of the main infrastructures involving changing very rapidly and spawning new use cases, new value propositions, it's creating a great ecosystem dynamic. We're here with Erik Kaulburg, who is the vice president of Infinidat, Cube alumni, great to see you again. >> Nice to see you as well. >> Been on the Cube multiple times. I think last time it was at VMWorld, or a studio? >> At, actually, our product launch for the cloud storage solution, as well. >> So, you guys got a great reputation. Take a minute, just, for the folks who might now know Infinidad, explain what you guys do, and your disruptive innovation. >> So, for Infinidad, we're all about tier-one environments, and it's the data piece of that environment, today, although that may not be forever. And, it's consumed through a couple of different modalities, so one of our big pieces of news earlier this year was that we were going beyond just the InfiniBox solution, which we shipped over four exabytes of to enterprises all around the world today, and broadening that to address the secondary storage market with InfiniGuard and Neutrix Cloud, which is a way to consume our capabilities completely as an iAd service in conjunction with other public clouds. >> Let's get that in a second, I want to get to the product in a second, but I want to first get your take on the market conditions, cloud storage, you're seeing pure storage had a big announcement of now they're doing a device, now doing software on premise, Amazon's going to have a device on premise, it's up for the cloud. Like, what the hell is going on? Storage is certainly growing like crazy. What does the market look like? Obviously, API, microservices, these are important things. Data still is the number one opportunity, but still a challenge. You guys are the center of it, what's the market look like to you? >> Absolutely, I couldn't agree more with the idea that data is at the middle of everything, and the lines are getting blurry between on-prem and public cloud environments as well. So, what I'm seeing in general is that companies which used to sell boxes, or primarily sell boxes today, are trying to figure out ways to play in the public cloud environments, and they're taking one of two paths. One is to develop a solution that's kind of leveraging the built-in infrastructure from the major public clouds, and the other is to build alongside it and enable those major public clouds, and potentially do so in a slightly less captive manner. So, that's what I'm kind of seeing across the industry, with regards to the public cloud. >> What's the role of storage here at re:Invent, because, like I said, Holy Trinity is of infrastructures, computer storage, and networking, and as that evolves, with each one having its new capabilities with Cloudify, is enabling new opportunities. What is the storage role now in the modern era of cloud as it is today? What's your view on that? >> Well, part of it is just providing excellent data services that are at the core of so many of these emerging environments. Like, we were listening to Monday Night Live yesterday, and one of the distinguished folks on there from the machine learning team was talking about the importance of getting more training data, so that you can run these more advanced machine learning workflows, and get things done quicker. We use less PHP type resources to get a problem solved, so I think that category of solutions, where you're using more storage capabilities as an enabler for more business value, or more value in the end application, is a trend that's going to absolutely continue for quite a while. >> What's the hottest area in Amazon cloud native world for storage that you see a lot of customers gravitating to? What's the number one? >> Well, I think, in general if you look at the adoption patterns of their block, file, and objects storage offerings, object is still dominating the vast majority of those kinds of use cases, and it comes from the perspective of applications that were written with cloud native services in mind. However, we think, I think, that there's a whole opportunity there, outside of the traditional, traditional cloud native object architectures, in the block and file arena, which has largely been untapped by the data and storage services, and that's an area where we and others in the industry are looking to augment. >> What is the competition? What's, like, NetApp doing? Let me ask, everyone's got to be on mobile clouds. Amazon, clearly the leader. They're making the market, so unless, say Kubernetes doesn't intermediate their services, for the most part, that's the market leader, but you got to play on a lot of clouds, because customers aren't going to have one cloud, they're going to certainly be hybrid on premises and cloud, but certainly be on multiple clouds. What's, like, NetApp and these guys doing? What's the competition doing? >> So, what I see NetApp doing is taking that kind of cloud captive approach, to be honest, what I see is they've got tied immigration, which is very impressive, with several major public cloud vendors. However, the challenge is, when you want cross those silos, you have a little bit more complexity that arises with that approach. >> Like what? >> So, you may have to spin up a separate set of data in Azure. Let's say, if you want to have an application cross the boundaries between AWS and Azure. >> Okay, let's get back to your storage solution. Neutrix Cloud, what is this about? Explain the product at a high level, we drill into it. >> So on a fundamental level, we believe in flexibility of Infinidad, and that's extended through all sorts of aspects of our product portfolio, but specifically, with regards to cloud storage, Neutrix delivers flexibility of having an outside set of infrastructure that's still tightly integrated with the major public clouds, including AWS, of course, and it delivers high resiliency, the five nines SLA, which we've talked about, which we believe is best in class, as well as enterprise-grade capabilities that previously you really had to look to an on-prem array to be able to achieve. Large-scale snapshot operations, asynchronous and synchronous replication natively built in, all these kinds of things, which make it easier to take tier one applications from an on-prem environment and bring those to the public cloud environments. >> And what's the core problem that you solved with this product? >> It's, you can't get tier one cloud storage today. What we would argue, anyway, and our customers are telling us that the features and capabilities, and even business guarantees provisions around the cloud storage offerings in the market today simply don't exist to the level that they need to be to support the last, let's say, 30% of applications that have not yet moved on to the public clouds. So, that's what we're addressing, making it easier for storage to accomplish that. >> You guys always have impressive customers, always see the big names, give some examples of some use cases. >> So, our customers have fallen into two categories, with regards to Neutrix Cloud adoption. The easy case, and the most natural for many of them, since they are buying our on-prem infrastructure at a large scale today, is, well, let's start replicating that infrastructure to the Neutrix cloud environment, maybe do it as a disaster-recovery target, things like that, and we think that there's value there. There's lots of companies which do DR as a service, to be honest, we don't see that as necessarily the core competency, but it's a stepping stone to the second use case, which is cloud adoption for these tier one applications, and bringing them the flexibility of potentially having multiple cloud platforms addressing the same data. >> We talked about the cloud guys, so we don't want to put you on the spot here, because this is the same patterns happening. Old world storage was stack up the storage, and provision the storage, stuff goes on there, block, file, that good stuff. Now, with the cloud, and Amazon, this is where I want to get the Amazon tie-in with you guys, because storage is not necessarily just a magic, quadrant-like thing. Oh, back-up and recovery, this and that, you're starting to see much more of a platform approach. And successful platforms enable things to be successful. It's not like I built it for this, purpose-built kind of storage. Do you guys see yourselves as a data platform, and if so, what does that mean, and what are those key value points that you're creating off that platform? >> I think you said it, actually, better than I did, that ultimately, we want customers to be able to consume our differentiated data services in whatever modality they prefer. So, if that's an on-prem infrastructure piece, if that's a back-up optimizing environment, if that's a public cloud service, we offer all those today, and customers can take their data from one to the other or even view it as a single, kind of, data architecture that crosses all of those traditional silos. >> So, were you looking at, you know, kind of one of the things that I'm listening to you guys chat, and one of the things that I'm thinking of is, how hard is it for a customer to actually adopt your technology and deliver it, you know, utilize it, across multiple environments? >> So, many of the traditional on-prem infrastructure players have great barriers associated with their public cloud services. We're not one of them. We took an intentionally different approach, and learned from companies like AWS on how you can get clients easily onto the solution, how they can pay for it easily, and how, ultimately, they can deploy it in a large scale public cloud environment very easily. That's a huge part of the investment that we put into developing the Neutrix Cloud service. >> Right. >> So we can have clients up and running in less than a day, from initial contact to large scale adoption, and it could be even faster than that as well. >> Now onto your relations with Amazon. What's it like, what's the details of it, what's the value, what's the connection point? >> I think we all agree that tier one applications are the last major bastion for public cloud adoption. These are things which you would have had on legacy big iron infrastructure, and so, to the extent Neutrix Cloud enables those tier one applications to move to the public cloud, to move to AWS, there's a lot of synergy there in the relationship, so we're absolutely an Amazon technology partner. We enjoy great working relationship with them, there are certainly areas where we overlap, but if we all agree on the end goal, we've been able to make some impressive business strategies. >> So, who are you competitors that you're most, kind of, focused on? Well, you shouldn't be focused on your competitors, you should be focused on what you're doing, but who are the competitors that kind of keep you up a little bit at night? >> I would say others that people would lump in this space, include NetApp Solutions in the public cloud environments, we see a couple of small start-ups, like Zadara, for example, from time to time, but to be honest, the biggest competitive kind of scenario that we see is just using the native public cloud services. And customers have to think about, well, I'm planning on replatforming my application, how am I going to design it from a storage perspective and often they don't even think that there are alternatives beyond the native offerings that could potentially add more value to their environments. So, that's when we come into the conversation, and from that point forward, generally, if we have a good enterprise type workload, the value proposition is instant and obvious. >> You know, when you guys came out, we've been following you guys since your founding, Gabe and I would always talk about Infinidat. You got good pedigree of a team. Classic storage. You have a good storage market. You guys take a different approach with this start-up. Founders did this time. How do you describe the key differentiator for you guys? What's the, you mentioned earlier, it's the tier one storage, but what's the secret sauce, what's the culture like? People want to peek inside Infinidad. What are they buying? What are they really getting, besides the product performance? What's the culture like, what's the company's view on the future world, serious insight. >> I think there's several elements to that, of course, but a lot of it comes from that founding DNA. So, Moshe Yanai, who basically defined the enterprise storage category overall back in EMC, had a succession of teams that he's built over the years, and he's really brought all of those key elements together. Three generations of storage expertise. >> Successful, by the way, three generations of exits, >> Absolutely, yeah. Building an organic business, selling a business, and now this is the business that he wants to leave to his grandchildren at some point. >> How's it going so far, how's business in general? >> Well, you know, we're private, so I can't say specifics, but I'd say we're definitely heading in the right direction. Growth has been phenomenal, the adoption of our portfolio solutions, in addition to just the core product, has really put us in a position of a very strong, long-term independence. >> Portfolios in terms of product capabilities or industries you're serving, or both? >> It's, actually, on both fronts. I was referring to the product portfolio but we've definitely broadened from our initial base in the financial services sector, which is a hard nut to crack in general, as a, you know, into a lot of different use cases, because it turns out that industries have a high demand for data across virtually every sector. So, we go where the data is. >> What's next? What's the next milestone for you guys? What're you lookin' to do next? >> Well, we did just have a major product release, so I'm glad that we've that, you know, out there, we're getting customers in the cloud space. I think the end of this year is going to be very, very strong for us from a business perspective and then next year, lots of great product announcements, and then ultimately, you know, we'll say some more on the business momentum there as well. >> All right, Erik, thanks for coming on the Cube show, thanks for the update. Infinidad, check them out, successful exit, multiple ties in the entrepreneurial team there, growing, doing great, storage has been going away, neither is networking, and neither is computing, it's only going to get better, stronger, as the cloud brings in more capabilities with machine learning and more use cases, new work loads, new capabilities. The Cube bringing it down with two sets here in Las Vegas. I'm John Furrier and Lauren Cooney, on set one. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. (techy music) >> Hey, welcome back, everybody. Jeff Frick here with theCUBE, we're at AWS re:Invent 2018 in Las Vegas, day two of four days of coverage. I think we'll do 120 interviews. I mean, this is the most poppin' show in tech right now. We're really excited to be here, and joined by my cohost, Lauren Cooney. Lauren, great to see you. >> Thank you. Great to see you, too. >> And we've got... (chuckling) We've got our next guest, it's Disha Chopra, she's a senior manager, product line manager for Juniper Networks, welcome. >> Thank you, feels great to be here. >> Good. >> So, what do you think of this show, have you been to re:Invent before? >> Oh, my God, no, this is my first one, and I am so excited. The energy is so great, it's vibrant, I'm learning a lot, I'm very happy to be here. >> So, Juniper's been around for a long time, way predating this cloud, this whole cloud thing, so what are you guys up to, what's the latest, and really, why are you here at re:Invent? What's your story with AWS? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, I think the latest thing with us is as early as today there was... We were posted on the AWS partner solution website. Vodafone is partnering with Juniper for their SD-WAN offering with, you know, the SD-WAN controller that's sitting in AWS, managing all their branch offices, so that's what's the newest with us, and you know, we've been making waves with a lot of partnerships recently. Couple of months ago, or maybe just a month ago, we announced with Nutanix, so that announcement was focused more for our enterprise customers. Integration with Nutanix is a hyperconverged infrastructure where Juniper will be, you know, integral part of their networking, providing for their converged infrastructure, and then before that, I think a few months ago we had Red Hat. We announced a partnership with Red Hat, and you know, that's focused on our telco cloud. So, as you were mentioning, Juniper's been around for a long time-- >> Right. >> And you know, telco clouds are our strong suite. Telcos, now telco cloud, right, and similarly for enterprise. If you think about it, you know, large enterprises and telcos, they're not that different, right? So, that's where we were at, and that's more kind of... We're following the evolution like our customers are, right? They used to be telco, now they're telco cloud. Juniper, I think the newest thing with Juniper, to be honest, in technology I spoke about partnerships, but it's our cloud-first strategy. That's what we have in mind. We are evolving with our customers, helping them in their journey for cloud adoption, cloud migration, right? It's a couple of sentences to say that, "Oh, we're helping our customers with cloud migration," but we're, you know, there's so many steps in between. They are very complex, you need a lot of handholding, and we're right there for our customers. >> So, what does that actually mean when you are, you know, saying that you're helping your customers? Are you working with them to bring them multicloud solutions from AWS and Microsoft and Google, or you know-- >> Correct, exactly. >> Can you give me a scenario or a use case? >> Yeah, absolutely, so like I was saying, traditionally, Juniper was, you know, a hardware-focused company, so our existing customer base, they bought a lot of big, heavy boxes from us, and of course, on top of it came a world class routing and switching software component, right, and it was all bundled up and sold together. Now, you know, they're moving towards the cloud, towards AWS, towards GCP, towards Azure. We want to be able to provide to them, and who better to provide this service to them. We understand their on-prem network. We understand cloud networking. We understand the transport in between. So, what we're doing is for our customers we manage their existing on-prem network, which you know, a lot of our customers, you know, they're huge and they have a significant amount of footprint, global footprint, right, so we understand that, we're able to connect them to the AWS, to the GCP, to the Azure, right, and the value proposition for them is that if they wanted to do it themselves they have to understand, you know, three different or five different clouds, right. You have IBM, you have DigitalOcean. There's a lot out there, right, and getting the opecs or getting the talent to be able to understand all these things and do the migration, it's hard, right? This is a complex problem to solve, so what Juniper brings to the table is we abstract it out. So, for example, I wanted to move-- >> Yeah, well I just want to say, you know, one of the things that you're talking about here, and this is a total switch, if I'm right, is are you becoming a managed service provider? >> We do have a managed service-- >> Because it sounds like you're going to be putting a lot more money into that side of the business-- >> Correct. >> Versus the straight-up product side of the business. >> Yeah, yeah, that's where we are pivoting from, you know, we want... Our perception used to be that we're a hardware company, now we're a cloud-first company. We're a software company, so we're definitely pivoting towards the, you know software-based solutions, software-based, you know, offerings. It's like your iPhone, right, or your phone. You buy the hardware but you're really buying it for the iOS or for the applications that run on it. Networking is following a similar paradigm now, right? The hardware boxes, they're definitely our bread and butter still, but it's the software now that's enabling and giving it all the cool factor and the innovation that's happening, it's all in the software. Contrail, that's our story for multicloud. That's one of our product offerings. So, what Contrail does is, and I think that's what I was kind of referring to earlier, it gives you that higher level of abstraction where you don't have to worry about: "Is my workload running in AWS? "Is my workload running in GCP?" It doesn't matter, right, you as a enterprise, or as a telco, we want you to focus on, you know, powering your applications, powering your services. We don't want you to worry about your infrastructure, that's our job, right? We want to completely hide all the complexity away from you, and just, you know, let you do what generates revenue. >> So, as an application developer, right, so I'm an application developer and I use Azure, for example, right-- >> Yeah. >> And that's kind of my platform, and I'm, you know, doing some interesting stuff with like, you know, some scripting, or I'm building, you know, just a general, like, new website or something like that with, you know, a couple different things. So, as a developer at that level, I don't even know about Contrail. >> Exactly, exactly. >> Exactly, but I don't think Contrail yet extends up to that layer where it can manage everything across multiple clouds. >> So, it provides you as a developer, like you said, you're writing an application, you don't care about the infrastructure. It's just there, right? >> Mm-hm. >> And we want to keep it that way. Contrail is there, Contrail is at that level. Contrail is going to provide the plumbing, so you as a developer, today everything, all developers are moving towards containers, right? So, for example, the Red Hat partnership that I brought up earlier, that's focused on the Red Hat OpenShift platform, their path service, which is a container-based service. Contrail integrates with Kubernetes, we integrate with Mesos, we integrate with Docker. So, as a developer, when you employ these tools to write your code, you know, using a CICD platform, Contrail is sitting right under it, giving you that connectivity. So, for example, when you're developing your application and (clearing throat) you know, you deploy it, you deploy part of it in Azure, you deploy part of it in AWS, right, and you don't care where it goes, you just-- >> Or you use one for, like, bursting or something like that. >> Exactly, yeah, yeah. >> You know, the rest of it on-prem. >> Correct, so-- >> That sort of thing. >> You know, it's distributed, right? So, who's going to plumb it and make sure that it's giving you the results that you need? That's where Contrail comes in. Gives you that plumbing between on-prem, between AWS. >> So, how is that different from Kubernetes as a whole? Like, I know that it's, you know, it does like container management, orchestration, deployment-- >> Correct. >> Delivery, how does-- >> Right. >> Contrail kind of come in and work with Kubernetes? >> Right. So, great question, by the way, you know your stuff, so (laughing) Kubernetes is... Kubernetes is orchestration for your workloads, right? It's services, Kubernetes provides a service, like it gives you a service web. You deploy a bunch of Kubernetes minions, they all work together to give you that application that you need. Now, what Contrail does is it provides the networking between those Kubernetes pods. So, let's say you want to scale up your application. Okay, you had 10 pods, now you want to go to 20. Kubernetes makes that decision for you that you need the 20 pods, and then Contrail is sitting under it giving you the networking for those 20 pods. So, when those 20 pods spin up, Kubernetes pokes Contrail and says, "Hey, 20 more, and these need to talk to "those 10 pods that were already there," right? >> So, Contrail is opensource, right? >> Correct. >> Why haven't you donated it yet to the CNCF? >> (chuckling) We are part of CNCF, we recently-- >> I know that. >> Yeah. >> But fundamentally, if you want that to be pulled as much as you do... >> Yeah. >> It's already opensource. >> Yeah, you're right. >> You might as well kind of get on that thread with the Kubernetes folks-- >> Right, yeah. >> And start talking to them about how you make it part of, you know, the core distribution that then goes into, you know, six different distro. >> Correct, correct, yeah. >> You know, something along those lines versus don't start your own distro. (chuckling) >> Sorry. >> Right, don't start your own distro, but look at how you can become integrated into that Kubernetes stream, the main stream. >> Correct, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, that is definitely something that, like you're saying, it's something that we, you know, we want to do, that's the direction that we want to go at, but I think the actual decision is maybe above my pay grade, so I don't (chuckling) want to make a commitment here. >> Fair enough. >> So, you know... (chuckling) >> Disha, I want to followup on a slightly different track. When you talk about cloud-first, and you answered the question, which is when you say cloud-first, is that, you know, kind of the way you're going to market with your customers, or is that the way you guys are looking at Juniper in terms of transforming the company? >> Mm-hm. >> And it sounds like you said it's more of the latter, really starting to reformulate Juniper-- >> Correct. >> As a cloud first service company. >> Exactly. >> So, how is that transformation going inside the company, that's a pretty significant-- >> It is, it is, yeah. >> Shift from selling boxes and maintenance agreements and-- >> Yeah. >> Shipping metal. >> Yeah, we are definitely modernizing from within, right, but a lot of it is driven by our customers. Like I was saying, you know, they are evolving, they want to connect to the cloud, and you know, we obviously want to help them do that. As part of that, we want to be microservices-based, right, because we want to be able to support containers. These are just things that, you know, we need to do. Juniper is a leader as far as, you know, innovation and networking is concerned. >> Right, right. >> So, it was never a question of if we want to do this, or if we want to go down this path or not, right, it's when, right? >> Right, right. >> And we are definitely working day in and day out to make that happen, so you know, a lot of our offerings, like recently we came out with our containerized SRX solution. SRX is our full-feature, full-service, next generation firewall, and we have containerized it, right. I believe it's the first offering of its kind, containerized, host-based firewall, so you know, innovative stuff happening all the time. Like you said, you know, it's definitely a Herculean task-- >> Right, right. >> But we're up for it-- >> Right. >> And we're doing it. >> And I'm just curious to when the customer conversations-- >> Yeah. >> You know, the hybrid cloud, multicloud, public cloud conversation, right, it's a lot of conversation. How do you take your customers down the path? Where do you see them, you know, trying to navigate in what's got to be a pretty complex world for-- >> It is, definitely. >> A CIO trying to figure out what they're supposed to buy and not buy, how to pay attention, can I hit all the booths-- >> Right, right, right, right. >> Here at AWS in three days, I don't think so. >> (laughing) I know, yeah, these conversations, to be honest, have been going for the past couple of years, right. A lot of our customers, the intent is there to move to the cloud, and you know, we are trying to help them with it, so you know, we design with them. We design their network, we design their topologies, we handhold them telling them how to do this, right, their existing networks that they have. The complexity comes in because everything, right, think of a company, right, a large company. It then goes ahead and acquires 10 more, and they all have their own networks, they all have their own environments, VMware, Red Hat, you know, Tabix, so different kinds of environments now all need to connect to the cloud. You don't want them to be siloed. You also don't want to deal with, you know, all those different kinds of, like I was saying, you know, skillset to be able to connect them all individually. So, when we talk to our customers, that's what we tell them, that you know, with a Juniper-based solution we have so many of them that work together in a cohesive way to give you that end-to-end connectivity. Secure, automated multicloud, that's our mantra, right, and it's as far as, you know, engineering is concerned, engineering simplicity. If you come down to Juniper it's plastered all over the walls, right, engineering simplicity. We were really driving that message internally so that... And a lot of the CICD stuff, right? The way we want our customers to use it is how we're using it, so that, you know, that improves our quality, that improves reliability, and all those things. So, in terms of handling our customers, we talk, you know, we're there on the table day one. We talk to them about their design. I see that a lot of our customers, currently where they're at is they are trying to connect to the cloud. They all want to move towards the container, you know, the containerized services. They know that's the right thing to do. They're not quite there yet, right? The intent is definitely there, they're playing with it, but in terms of being in production, we're still, you know, a little bit off. Not too much, but we'll get there soon, right. So, we talk to them, we talk about, you know, how they can make their applications cloud ready. There's a couple of ways to do it. You lift and shift, or you know, directly move, go cloud native. >> Right, right. >> So, we have all these discussions with them. You know, what fits their bill, right? What is good for them, what is it that's going to work for them? And then, you know, of course the connectivity piece, right, but with it security, reliability, and scale. Right, a company like Juniper obviously, you know, innovator in networking, we solve problems at a different level, right? >> Right, right. >> For our much larger customers. So, we talk to them about scale, we talk to them about, you know, reliable security is huge, right. You have a workload that you spun up on-prem, and then, now, you know, you have... Your requirements have changed, you're going to have to replicate it, say, in AWS. When you replicate it, you still want the same security that you had on-prem to apply to this workload, which is now going to be in AWS, how do you do that? It's easy with Contrail, right, because it's intent-driven. You specify the intent, in fact, you specified the intent when you brought up the first workload, and it captured it, "Okay, I'm supposed to talk to..." You know, say I'm workload red and I can only talk to other red workloads and I cannot talk to the blue workloads, something like that, right? >> Right, right. >> So, you specify the intent, and then when that red workload now comes up in AWS, it already knows that I wasn't supposed to talk to the green workload, so that policy and all the intent moves with that workload. >> Right, right. >> And this is all done through Contrail, right, and the other thing, that single pane of glass. I'm sure you've heard about it a lot today, right. The single pane of glass, you specify it one time. Again, the abstraction away from all those, you know, five clouds that you're working with, you specify the red workload, the policy for the red workload one time, and then it doesn't matter where you bring it up, Contrail will automatically apply it everywhere, and you know, it's good to go. >> That's great. >> Well, Disha, thanks for coming on, you certainly got the energy to attack this big problem, so... (laughing) Juniper's fortunate to have you. >> Great, thank you for having me. >> Thanks for coming on and sharing the story. >> It's been wonderful talking to you guys. >> All right, Disha, she's Lauren, I'm Jeff. You're watching theCUBE, we're at AWS re:Invent 2018. Come on down, we're in the main expo hall right by the center, thanks for watching. (techy music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're at AWS re:Invent 2018 at the Sands Convention Center and all over Vegas. I don't know how many people are here. We haven't gotten the official word. 60,000, 70,000, I don't know. There's a lot of people. We're excited to have our next guest, but before we get in, happy to be joined by Lauren Cooney. Lauren, great to see you, as always. >> Great to see you, as well. >> You know, one of my favorite things about doing Cube interviews is we learn about new industries that we didn't even know about. So, while we're here talking about IT, it's really about the application of IT that I think is really more interesting, more fun, and a great learning experience. So, we're really excited to have our next guest on. He is Kevin Smith, the director of MIS for Transcore. Kevin, great to see you. >> Hello. >> And many time Cube alumni, Sazzala Reddy. He is the CTO and co founder of Datrium. Sazzala, great to see you. >> Happy to be here. >> So, Kevin before we get into it, tells us a little about Transcore. What are you guys all about? >> Basically, we are the leading toll authority for kind of of Continental United States and we are trying to expand that throughout the world. We do the whole engineer all the way through manufacturing of toll systems for vehicles and cars throughout the U.S. So, the little stickers in you car all the way up to the readers that read them. They're coming through my place some how or some other. >> So, everything from the reader in the car-- >> Yup, the little sticker tag that sticks in your window or suction cups in. Wherever you are, yes you may hate us, but I'm not the one collecting the tolls. (laughs) >> I don't like it when you miss the picture. >> Well, let's input some design here. (laughs) >> Trust me, I've tried. (laughs) >> But then the huge back in process to pull that up, get it into the system, billing systems. >> Yeah, all integrated. Yep. >> And how big is the company? How long has it been around? >> We were acquired by Roper. We've been many divisions, but Los Alamos was technically, founding fathers 1954. >> 1954, so you've been around a long time >> Oh yeah, yes. They started with cows. >> RFID's on cows? >> Yes, tracking cows in the pastures of New Mexico. (laughs) >> With the little tags in their ears I imagine. Alright, great. We can talk about traffic probably all day long, but that's not why were here. That's not your day job you're not out there with the little RFID scanner. >> Not anymore, thank God. >> Let's talk about some of the challenges 'cause you know, obviously, the toll business has been around for a long time. But the automation of tolls has really changed a lot over the last five years. You probably know better than me from somebody in the booth taking my money and giving me a receipt to some places it's almost exclusively electronic. So, how's that business grown, and what have been some of the accompanying challenges have you seen that been grown? >> Part of the performance issues we were running into was the quantity. Because the man is gone from the booth, we have to produce more tags that become more readable. So, that creates more back in work, more transactions. And, in the long run, producing more tags. You know, we've gone to millions and millions of tags being produced, in a quarter, to where it was just hundreds of thousands. So, with that requires scalability that we can grow with our systems and our systems we had just wasn't doing it. >> So, you got the manufacturing of the tags as well, I didn't even think of the manufac- you got to make them in the first place, too. >> That is our bread and butter. Manufacturing those tags and the millions of millions of transactions that we test, because we have to test every tag that goes out the door. Every tag gets tested. >> How far away do they work, on those readers? I'm just curious. >> It depends on your speed. We've tested up to 200 miles an hour. And I think it's, like, 40-50 feet? So, as long as you're going under 200 miles an hour, we can get ya. >> Okay, so, how did you meet Sazzala in Datrium? How did that come about? >> We went looking for a product that could give us a one stop solution. We wanted something that was basically, I wanted to get out of the storage business, I wanted to get out of the management business. I didn't want to be having to worry about all these different vendors, all these different solutions. And Datrium was able to provide that. Compared to some of the other products that we were looking at, we did test with other products, and Datrium came out on top. They gave us the total package. >> Sazzala, when you looked at this oppurtunity, what did you see? Anything unique and different? What were some of the challenges that you tried to figure out how to help Kevin? >> So, what we are finding is that more and more companies, every company is a software company, every company is a data company, right? Every body wants to move faster. Everybody wants to things faster. I can't wait for my movie to start in two seconds. I'm like, Why is it taking two seconds? So, everybody wants things faster. We live in this instant economy where everything needs to be either you transform or you die. So, how do we make that transition into the speed? How do you build your data center, whatever your doing, to match that speed of innovation? Any system you're going to deploy in a data center, has to be not in the way. It has to be less management, less overhead. Look at Amazon, very successful because there is less to manage. And, you mostly manage your applications. That's what the business moral is going to be going forward. That's why people like the Cloud. Why does CIO like the Cloud? Not because it's cooler, or whatever, but because it makes things faster. It's expensive, yeah, but it makes things faster in some ways. >> Go ahead. >> I was going to say, on issue we ran into and we came to him with was our CAD designers. 'Cause we designed the product. And, the rendering was just dragging on our old systems. And, we went from two to three minutes rendering to seconds rendering new graphics. And, so, before they were like I'm not going to save it yet, I'm not going to re-render it. Now, they're re-rendering every time they're making a change. It helps in performance, it helps the application, and it helps increase the productivity of my CAD designers. >> Right. I was going to say, it was probably the customer service pretty significant, as well, so they can get the version that they want. >> Definitely, definitely. And, you know, the nice thing is is Datrium allowed us to scale. We couldn't go out and just Okay, revamp everything. You got to do baby steps. And Datrium gave us that scaleabilty, to where I could add anything from 1 to 128 nodes. You know, I was able to increase performance by just adding a server node, or increase the rights by adding a data node. That's the flexibilty that I needed from a vendor. >> So, when you said that Datrium had the whole package, you looked at some other solutions out there. When you were trying to find the whole package at the beginning of the process, what were the key attributes that you said I would love to get all these from one place? >> I was looking for performance and scale. Which I got. I was looking for back-up. God, I wanted to get out of the back-up business. I was tired of tapes, I was tired of third-party solutions. >> Tire of tapes? (laughs) >> Trust me. Shh, don't tell the tape vendors here. >> Tape is good, if you have the right application. >> Security, I stay awake at night. I lead our security teams. I stay awake worrying about Is my data protected? You know, with their encryption, that gave me that whole protection. And the last thing was DR. DR is adorned in every IT manager, every IT director, every, you know, CTO. And, with their whole Cloud shift, that DR? What DR, it's done. It just happens. And those four things is kind of what led us to finding Datrium. 'Cause some of them gave us one or two, but not everyone could give us all four of the options that we were looking for. >> What I love about the story is those are kind of concrete savings and doing your job easier. What your excited about is enabling your CAD designer, your kind of proactive sales process, your proactive design, your proactive innovation to actually move faster. That's not a cost saving mechanism. That's really a transformational, kind of positive revenue, side of the tale that I don't think is told enough. People focus on the cost savings and execution. That's not what it's about. It's really about innovating and growing your business faster. Do you think? >> Oh no, our ROI, that we calculated in, was just on hardware. Just on my cost savings that I could put a penny to. The time, it's so great. I mean, my CAD designers producing product faster, my developers are asking for more VMs. For me to spin up because the speed is so much faster. We're used to being Oh, don't touch it. I got this guy tuned exactly where I want it. We got the memory. But now, they're asking for more and more, and it's my in users, who are really the engineers, my manufacturing people, they're wanting more and more out of the product and Datirum is delivering. I don't go to dashboard and look to try and figure out how to tweak it anymore. I don't have any complaints. And, if I don't have any complaints, were doing something right. >> That's a good thing. >> So, it just works? >> Oh, it was beyond just works. >> Literally. >> Trust me, I was ready when we bought product to bring in a whole team and I was like, Oh, I'm going to have to hire all these people. And the guy came in and he goes, Okay, turn it on. Okay we're done. I was like, Nu-uh. He goes, Oh yeah, you have to plug that cord in back there. I was like, Wow. 'Cause, you know, usually it's-- >> I'm looking at a number right now, and it is 617% three year ROI. >> It's across many customers (mumbles) >> I totally believe you with what-- >> So we are aiming for a U.S. designer came and asked me one day, What should I aim for as a design principle? I said, We should aim for zero UI. That's what we should do. It should be transparent, it should just work. That's what we really aim for. I'm not saying we have zero UI today, but that's our goal. >> It's good to have goals. >> Let's just make it work automatically, right? That's kind of the goal. >> Well, and that was one thing, we wanted something integrated, so we didn't have to go looking. And, that's one thing I tell the engineers all the time. I go into the UI just to kind of see how cool the systems running. You know, because there is no issues. It just works. Everything's integrated, I don't have to go in and click and click and click and click to get through stuff. It just works and integrates well. We're a big Vmware shop, big Dell server shop. All of that, one-stop shop. I was telling Sazzala, you know, it's great when I get the e-mail that there's a problem with my Datrium system before my help desk is getting the notification. I can't buy that service. >> So, Kevin, there's a lot of peers that will be watching this show. Peers of you. Having gone through this process and now you are on the other side and you're on to some new things, in terms of innovation, what would you share with a peer whose trying to sort some of this out? It's a confusing landscape. There's so many options, and you got to do your day job, too. Besides, putting out new technology. What would you share with a peer if you're sitting down over a beverage on a Friday afternoon? >> You know, I would talk to them about having that capability, really a performance scale. Being able to not worry about controllers, not worrying about what SSDs you got to put into something to make it work. Pop 'em in. SSDs are cheap nowadays. Pop 'em in. It increases your reads. Going back to the whole no more third-party solutions for back-ups. Every SIS admin, every manager knows, back-ups are only good for restores. That's the only reason you do a back-up, is 'cause you got to do that restore. And, it becomes invisible. It's all running in the background. I don't even think about it anymore. My old systems, we still think about. That aren't on the Datrium product yet, but all our production (scoffs) When I'm backing up every hour, and my RTO almost becomes zero if something happens, you can't ask for that. That's critical, I think, for every manager, every director, even the SIS admins. No one wants to really think about back-ups. And, when you're comparing your products, take a look at that. How quick can you get something back up when that hard drive went out, you know? That's critical. And, of course, DR is, you know, everyone needs that checkbox checked for recovering. It just comes right away, with that. >> We've run out of time. Going to ask you the big question. Do you sleep better? >> Oh, much better. (laughs) Easily now. Yes. Now I get to worry about other things. Like keeping my CFO happy about something else. >> And, I've got a list of people we need to introduce to you. Definitely. >> Fortunately, you always move through your next point of failure. Once you fix one spot. Watch Lucy check out the chocolate-- >> Hey, but if I can have this one off my plate, that's one better for me. >> Well, Kevin, thanks a lot for telling your story. It's a really impressive story And, I'll think of you as I go across a Dumbarton Bridge some time. >> Think about that, yes! >> Absolutely. >> Thank you for having me. >> Sazzala, great to see you, as always. Lauren, lots of fun. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCube. We're at AWS re:Invent 2018. Thanks for watching. (electronic music)

live from Las Vegas it's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services Intel and their ecosystem partners welcome back everyone live here the cube coverage at Amazon Web service AWS reinvent 2018 our sixth year covering Amazon now 52,000 lost people here packed house this is where the industry gathers to really kind of check out the future where the state of the cloud business is what it means to enterprise I'm John Fourier the post of the cube with Lauren Cooney co-host me.we this week on set one of two sets here our next two guests Jeff monk resulting systems engineer stealthWatch cloud that's now part of Cisco Systems and Earth has been Product Marketing Manager jetbrains welcome to the cube guys thanks for coming on thanks launched six years now we've been covering Amazon we were here when kind of people didn't really understand what it was we saw here so Jerry Chen just gave him a venture capitalist and Braille app and we're like this is gonna be big it's big but the big news here this week is on premises okay you guys cisco you own premises with routing networking developers of programming applications in the cloud needs to run on premise it's a big theme it's all kind of coming together it's kind of first validation this year that on-premises is not going away and cloud is becoming more prevalent for data and analytics for coding for DevOps but now working seamlessly together you guys agree with this recently announced the deal with AWS right you have networking which the critical part of the holy trinity of infrastructure network storage compute powering a new class of software development and tools what's your view on this I mean give us a take yeah so from a Cisco stealthWatch standpoint like you said we see that customers are not necessarily going away from on-premise deployments a lot of organizations have got large data centers and Colo facilities they still run all right and they've also got workloads in the public cloud so what we see is you know any some kind of mixture of organizations that have still got bare metal servers and virtual machines on premise that they need visibility into and one protect then they've also got public cloud workloads that are virtual machines but then they've gone beyond virtual machines and there are things like micro services and server lists and containers and they need a solution that can protect all those different environments and that's what stealthWatch comes into play and i want to get you guys saw it on on this because i'll see now security used to be a blocker for cloud it can't put seven the cloud skids not secure now security is their baseline at least needs more work you've got to have that visibility and you guys have a programmable strategy for the network is now coding be pcs is becoming more important than ever before right how is security evolving as compute start to get more powerful storage of storage data it's not going away it's only growing with IOT and IOT edge with connectivity networking now has to up its game write an application of elves don't want anything to do with all that anymore they want to just program so what's this mean for people what are security right for security yeah so what we're seeing and I mentioned a second ago was the expansion into micro services serverless cloud native if you will and organizations are continuing to go that route but what they don't realize is as they expand into those different technologies they're actually increased creating an increasing attack surface if you will right they're not really thinking about that and what they're doing is opening up multiple new points out to the internet that are vulnerable and it to exposure and risk right so they're not thinking about securing those new environments that are deploying and that's where we come into play also awesome let's talk about jet Breen what do you guys do what's the relationship with Cisco how do you fit in what's the story so let me start with introducing jetbrains little but you're just talking about all these various spaces where people have to run their code nowadays yeah if you want to develop for all these environments you need tools that allow you to develop for all these environments at JetBrains that were tooling professionals what we do we are software developers we make tools for software developers we really want to give the developer all this power in their hands to be able to develop insight for example containers and step through their code as they go inside these environments of course our own products and our own services they are all a lot of them are hosts on AWS and Cisco comes in there and healthy let's make sure that all of our servants that we have online remains secure and the relationship with Cisco is part of the go-to-market you guys share products together what's the relationship as jetbrains is actually a stealthWatch customer they've been a customer for a few years now and we actually protect all of their Amazon workloads they've got deployed in the Amazon infrastructure anything from ec2 instances to RDS redshift lambdas pretty much any sort of service that they're using from a compute standpoint in Amazon stealthWatch cause in protecting for a few years now so with kubernetes and now lambda the old days was was still grade you spit up an instance ten seconds lambda you can do this in really really high velocity how does that change the tooling how does it impact your world it's a customer so for us as the customer self watch it impacts us that we have to of course make sure that whenever these lambdas fire we know what's going on and we can see what's happening and one of the things we really want to do within Jefferson we want to give our developers we want to empower they want to make sure that they can experiment that they can make new things and it's all Excel what really helps us make sure that when our developers are out there doing things we can still maintain that we're following the best practices and everything stay secure how does automation guys weave in because kubernetes is a big battleground right now we're seeing important one as orchestrating and managing cluster certainly the state of application data unstated applications also with AP is obviously growing visibility is critical but automations may be right around the horizon ku Bernays at some point gonna be automated away and if so what's that looked like from software standpoint because yeah it's dynamic now so what we see from a kubernetes and a container orchestration perspective is that the kubernetes itself is designed to do the automation all right it's elastic expand and contract right but what you may be looking at today is a small kubernetes cluster with a couple of nodes and a couple dozen pods then all sudden tomorrow based on load you could be looking at hundreds of nodes and thousands of pots a massively increased attack surface if you will it right there's a building into and trying to figure out what's going on there right stealth watts cloud luckily we're there we're in kubernetes today and what we do is we deploy automatically in the kubernetes environment and in a way that allows us to expand with you automatically so as your cluster expands we will give you complete visibility into everything that's moving east west in kubernetes as well as north south so it's a very simple deployment doesn't matter where kubernetes lives we've got you covered if people are going to download stealthWatch from the catalog right what is it how would you describe right so stealthWatch cloud it is a SAS offering all right so we get asked that a lot just today over in the booth you know we've got a lot of questions about where do we put our sensors where do you put the collectors people if they're having a hard time wrapping their heads around the fact that it's straight API calls okay we're bringing in cloud trail we're bringing in I am and cloud watch BPC flow logs right and we're bringing it all in all automated over the API AWS - AWS where we live and it is a SAS billing offering writes if there's nothing that you have to go deploy it's a 5-minute integration you can buy it right there on the AWS marketplace like you said for public or private network monitoring and it's a subscription billing so it's a true SAS you're looking to kind of expand you know your footprint in this space with kubernetes is there any thought of you know some sort of code donation to kubernetes to actually increase your footprint among users and get them more engaged or is that something that you you know talked about thought about things like that donating code donating some code yeah I don't honestly don't think there's anything that we've ever discussed about donating commenting like that what about you guys are donating code to the kubernetes project well just to increase your footprint right so you would have available as a component of kubernetes and people would put into there great idea yeah yeah it's not something that I know that we discussed but yeah I mean if we could deploy something that would be open source that we actually part of that project that would be a huge visibility for us and I think that's big sensitive you look at what's going on in Cisco whether things like to give you guys a prop here is that the def net developer community has really taken - cloud native and with definite create dev net at Cisco live and Cisco Barcelona we've been this past year what a sea change I mean you got command line interface dudes going hey I need to be dashboard oriented meaning I gotta automate stuff so the notion of programming the network it's not a foreign concept to network engineers they're pretty smart right they get things so how is this world of all I mean how is the persona of a Cisco customer that needs to get more software development shops going what's it like I mean is there future dashboards as their future gonna be scripts event alerts let me manage it so how do you guys see that persona evolving I think what we see and you can probably relate to this also erst is that more and more organizations it doesn't matter how averse they are to cloud and new development technologies more organizations are going towards a DevOps oh yeah framework with C ICD constant continuous integration and continuous delivery right so it's hard to avoid the fact that that's where the paradigm is shifting and in doing so as we move into more cloud native and serverless capabilities you're looking at things that don't get necessarily involved operating systems and IP addresses and traditional endpoints and that's where most organizations are going so and so from a security perspective we've got to go there also know about your relationship with just as a customer are you happy what's it like how's the product so if I were very happy we've had some great experiences with the onboarding of stealthWatch cloud yeah we had some of course you know as you're starting to get started we needed a little bit of assistance getting used to the tool and getting started and getting anything configured the support was very helpful and they really helped us get started and then at some point we actually did some of this cloud automation and we set up terraform scripts so we could actually automatically configure stealthWatch cloud into many of our AWS accounts great great stuff final question for Cisco what's next for you guys on the product side anything going on give a quick plug of what's happened yeah I'd say what's next for us from a stealth watch cloud standpoint is you're going to see more integration with the Cisco portfolio we're integrating with the Cisco identity services engine integrating with the next-gen firewall integrating with the new encrypted traffic analytics that you've probably discussed here on the cube before so it's a tiger portfolio integration because that really sets us apart awesome guys thanks for coming on the key appreciate the insight good to see a customer here thanks for coming I appreciate very good job kubernetes at the head start as at the center of all the action with developers cluster man has been scaling up lamda server list this is the really the fasting programming gold networks is key the queue bringing all the coverage here live in Las Vegas for 80 bus reinvent 2018 I'm Shepard Lauren Cooney stay with us for more coverage after this short break [Music]

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to your by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. (techy music) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. It's theCUBE live here in Las Vegas for Amazon Web Services, AWS re:Invent 2018, I'm John Furrier with Lauren Cooney, the cohost of theCUBE on this set. There's two sets, and we're getting all the great interviews from the smartest people here in the ecosystem. AWS re:Invent is the industry conference that makes it all happen in the cloud. We're excited to have Lynn Lucas here, CMO of Cohesity, back on theCUBE, CUBE alumni, also the architect of the greatest party of all time. The Cohesity parties, you guys had a great party last night. I tweeted some live footage of it. Got a little bit of backlash on Twitter, but it's okay, you know. >> We don't want that. >> A lot of FOMO. >> Hopefully also the architect of some great marketing here. We're here to get the word out about Cohesity and our news with Amazon, so glad to have you here. Thanks for having me on the set again. >> You guys really hit the formula for parties at events because normally they can be kind of boring. You bring artists in, you have a great venue. You glam it up with green, the color of Cohesity. How's that working out for you guys, what's been the feedback? I was going to say people last night were jamming, great crowd. Tell us what's going on, what's the success look like, what's the vibe? >> Yeah, well it certainly is about appreciating our partners and customers that are here, but really it's all about getting the word out about Cohesity, and you know, I think you know the numbers here were somewhere between 50 and 60,000 people here, crazy, at re:Invent, and we want people to know what Cohesity can do for them in terms of their use of Amazon and making that investment even better and smarter for them, for what we call secondary data, so that was the purpose of the party, thank our customers and partners and get the word out about what we can do. >> As they say in the old marketing cliche, if you've got the sizzle you've got to have the steak. >> Absolutely. >> So, tell me, you've got some great sizzle, great marketing, congratulations, doing a great job. Love working with you and love going to your events. What is the action on the products, like where's the meat on the bone? >> Sure thing, so we had a really important announcement here yesterday extending our partnership with Amazon. We had an extension to some already great, killer features that we have. Three things, so three things you got to know. One, integration without agents to do backup of your cloud native, AWS applications, full failover and fail back to the Amazon cloud and back again for DR, and we also are now offering integration with Snowball, so a lot of customers looking at how they can get more of their data into Amazon, and now we facilitate that and of course give you the indexing that allows that to become searchable and usable for the longer term. >> I want to ask you a question. I saw a presentation this morning at Teresa Carlson's public sector breakfast, packed house, again. She's really doing an amazing job, so shout out to her and her team, but the presentation was from the deputy of the FBI counter terrorism, she talked about all the bad things that have happened and how they tried to catch up and find the bad guys, or gals, and the problem they have is that they have a data crisis, and she said that: "The FBI has a data crisis," and they can't put the puzzle together fast enough because although the data's there, they can't get it out of the databases and there are all these different fragmented systems. This is a problem, how are you guys helping clients fix this fragmentation problem? Is that an area you're solving? What's your vision, or Cohesity's vision, around this notion of how does cloudification solve this speeding up of value around data that's kind of spread out everywhere? >> Yeah, so you hit the nail on the head. We call this mass data fragmentation, and that's the problem that she's talking about. In fact, we just completed a global study of secondary data, and nine out of ten, not surprisingly, of IT organizations around the globe think that this is going to cost them somewhere between 50% and 100% more than what they're currently spending to manage their data, because it's in silos, it's in silos on-premise, but it's also then started to silo inside the cloud, and how Cohesity helps is creating a unified platform, what we call the Data Platform, and spanning the on-premise and the cloud, the multicloud environment, and providing some really unique capabilities to help organizations take that fragmentation and now remove it, bust those silos, put it in one place, give you global search, indexing, and then compression, because we all know how many copies... Excuse me, deduplication, save storage, but then also the removal of copies, because we all know how many copies there are out there. >> So, Cohesity's brand message is you guys keep pounding the frequency, get the brand message out there, is what, what's the brand promise for Cohesity? >> Great question, the brand promise is we are going to end your mass data fragmentation problems and give you web scale simplicity, right? So, why are so many organizations here, right? They love what they see with AWS and that web scale and that hyper scale simplicity, but many companies, right, still have a lot of on-premise systems, and so they're struggling with it. Well, our founder, Mohit Aron, was one of the original developers of the Google file system, knows a little bit about building distributed file systems, and so he's brought that into an affordable platform for the enterprise to give you that scalability across your on-premise, your public cloud, private cloud edge sites. >> And I think that is critical across multiple environments, especially as people are trying to develop across those multiple environments, there really needs to be that consistency for them. Some of the things that I've picked up that I hear about you guys, it's really about user experience. It seems like you care a lot about that. You've got one graphical, you know, interface that you actually use, and it makes, I think, data less scary to folks. I would say the ecosystem, I don't know... You know, I looked at your architecture and I don't know who's not in those boxes, but you make it very clear, you know, in particular, and I think also saving people money, you know, that's going to be critical because everyone is scaling out and they're spending more and more and more, and what they're spending more on is, you know, this vast amount of data that they can't control anymore, and it's, you know, just kind of churning. >> Yeah. >> And we just had this great guy on here and he was talking about, you know, the movie that he did, and he's the one-stop shop, like, IT guy at this company, and he's the... He thinks, he's like, "They saved my life," was what he told us-- >> Yeah. >> About you guys, so-- >> So, I think you hit the nail on the head, it's all about simplicity. I mean, again, in our new study, and I don't think this is going to surprise anyone, but bringing it up to date for 2018, you still have, on average, five to six systems just for backup, up to 15 if you count all secondary, which is files and objects, analytics, test dev, and think about IT trying to manage all of that complexity from a user interface, a procurement, a training enablement. So, we give them that one-stop dashboard simplicity-- >> Yeah. >> And then on top of that build a foundation for the test dev organization, analytics organization to now do more with the data, because it's not enough to just bring, bust those silos and bring the data into one place. We need to do something with that data, right? >> Absolutely, and you know, you guys were talking, before we came on camera, about storytelling, and you know, I look at the story of the cloud. I want to get your perspective on this, and Lauren, feel free to chime in because I think you've got a good input on this. If you look at what the cloud is doing to changing the game, this narrative is changing. Andy Jassy calls it the old guard, other people call it legacy systems. We've all been in a tech industry. We've kind of seen where it's been and where it's going now. More visibility now in where it's going, AI and more automation, all this greatness. The narrative's changing, who's ready, who's prepared, what is the story of the modern cloud era? What is that narrative and how should companies be talking to themselves? What's their self-talk, how do they... What's your thoughts on the story of the modern era? What's actually happening in your mind? >> Well, I think, you know, the narrative is around if you are not cloud-forward, I don't like to call it cloud native because I think that really doesn't speak to so many organizations, so it's about being cloud-forward, and having that mindset, right, that you are going to be thinking about what are the advantages of the AWS cloud for me and my business. How can I use that to gain efficiencies, and that is something that I think really does separate the old guard from the new guard. You know, if I think about Cohesity in that vein, compared to some of the legacy solutions out there, that is what Mohit Aron built in. We're cloud native from the beginning with an S3 interface, but with those interfaces back into the enterprise world so that we can help customers bring that forward, data portability and app portability. >> That's Amazon's mission, they're just forward, forward, forward progress. They're not even looking in the rear view. Although, Andy does look at Oracle, but we have to Oracle, Lauren, what's your take on the storytelling, because I'd love to get your perspective on this, too. I hate to go on a little tangent here, but I think it ties to the Cohesity brand promise. You got developers changing, you got IT experts being devops kind of, you know, culture change there, and you've got the role of opensource communities. This is a new mosh pit of action. What's your-- >> Yeah, I think it's a mosh pit of action, but it's more of a mosh pit of opportunity-- >> Yeah, absolutely. (chuckling) >> If you really want to look at it. You know, you have developers, so you know, in 2003 I was at BEA building developer communities around web servers, and then I actually went, you know, in 2008 I was at Microsoft building the web platform, which was the precursor to Azure, and you know, then skip ahead, you know, 10 years, and this is where we are and this is what we're looking at, and I think that what we've gotten to along that, you know, kind of timeline, is it has to be easy for users. Development has to be easy, it doesn't matter where in the stack people are working, it has to be accessible, people have to be able to learn it or up skill to it very, very quickly, and it's really a new, you know, shape and form that's kind of coming to the table, and as people look to study computer science and things along those lines it will be important, but it will become less important as more companies start to look at the Salesforce model where you literally can become a developer in a week, and things along those lines. >> Right. >> That's what I think the cloud is really bringing to the table. >> It's the new software methodology. Clearly Amazon announcing this cool ground station, satellite as a service, spin up, fly your own drones, whatever you want to do. You don't have to provision a satellite anymore, just turn it on. It's going to empower the edge, because the edge is where conductivity stops. So, if you've got conductivity everywhere, that now means that all data will be coming in even probably more exponentially. This is kind of in your wheelhouse. As you look forward, as you go cloud-forward and IoT edge forward more data's coming. Are you ready for that, what's the vision for you guys, how do you handle all that? >> Well, you know, I think the story about more data, with respect, is old. We all know that, right, you know. What people haven't been able to solve is as it's coming in, how are you going to keep track of it, and is it even feasible to try to put it all in one place, and I think the answer's not really, right? I mean, think about IoT-- >> Yeah. >> And all these edge sites-- >> Yeah. >> And the promise of what's going on, so this vision, which I love, is of a spanning system that gives you that operating model of one platform, but not trying to do the impossible of continually trying to put data all in physically one place, coupled with, I so agree with you, this API-first economy. If you aren't building systems that way, you know, then it really isn't built for the future because who can imagine all of the things that we do with our smartphones, and we like to think of what the Cohesity Data Platform is is the analogy to the smartphone, right? We used to carry the flip phone, the GPS, the music player, the flashlight, that device changed the world, and then we changed it again by using APIs to build new apps on it. Cohesity Data Platform is that same vision. We're going to create that unified operating environment, and then through APIs let companies build on it. >> So, it's a data platform is not so much a category of backup and recovery. It's a benefit, a lot of value there, get a magic quadrant, maybe, written up someday, but you're a data platform. >> Yeah, well I go back to that analogy of the smartphone, right? You know, so we solve, and want to solve and be the world's best at solving some of the toughest problems, and data protection is one of them. Like, I'll speak to one of our other AWS customers that's here, which is Dolby, and Dolby had a massive challenge with their on-premise data center moving their workloads to AWS since 2016, had a fire in their data center and started realizing, "Hey, there's a lot of benefits "to doing more backup in the cloud, "but also doing more archive to the cloud," both from a protection point of a view, as well as a cost saving point of view, and that is, you know, the kind of thing where we're going to solve each of those use cases. Your phone is still great as a phone, but it's also great to order your Uber here, and maybe get you a meal. >> And there's data in there, too, okay. >> Yeah. >> Question, final question for you is competition, a lot of heat in the kitchen with competition. You don't shy away from it, I love that about you. You guys are loud and proud at Cohesity, love that brand. >> Super green. >> Yeah, super green, green light, go, green is money, too. How are you different from competition, why are you winning, what's the advantage? >> Well, let me go back to, I think, a phrase, old guard, new guard. So, I think there's an old guard, and we would clearly separate ourselves from the old legacy solutions that are not hyperconverged and are not web scale, and are not web-first or cloud-forward. There's another group that are looking at, and even some of the old players now, trying to move into the new world, but I think what differentiates Cohesity is three things: A true spanning file system, web scale, that is not focused on just being a better backup. So, you just touched on backup, it's an important workload, but our vision is to consolidate all secondary workloads, so that's backup, yes, but it's also files and objects. It's also then making that data productive for test dev and analytics, and doing that across, again, the edge, the cloud, and on-premise, and that's what makes us different. >> Final, final question, because I always do this because one pops into my head when you're talking, Andy Jassy's going to talk a lot about this tomorrow, because I got a little preview on Monday last week, net new workloads, latency, all these new things. Got some of the announcements trickling out. He's seeing, and a lot of people are, we included agree with him, when you have the kind of compute that's available and the kind of data platforms and the horizontal scalability to cloud, these new net workload will be enabled. AIs been enabled by great compute. AIs been around for decades-- >> Mm-hm. >> And it's got a renaissance with compute. What new net work, net new workloads do you envision Cohesity bumping into or pioneering in the future? >> Well, actually we're going to look to the developer community, honestly, right. I think we have a strong ethos and belief that, you know, we're not the smartest people in the room, so to speak, so let's bring that out to the developers and let them in their companies or in the third parties, the great community that's here, figure out what is the next thing that we can do. When we don't have these fragmented silos of data and we can actually see in its entirety what is available to us, what might be possible? I think it could change the world. >> Developer community's a very key part of it, I would agree. Again, there's hardcore new developers emerging, IT expert developers, opensource community contributors all coming together, all here on theCUBE covering, that's our audience, that's you guys out there. Bringing the best action here at re:Invent. I'm John Furrier with Lauren Cooney, here with Lynn Lucas with Cohesity. We'll be back with more live coverage here from the two sets, double barrel shotgun of theCUBE, we call it theCUBE canons. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. (techy music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel and their ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back. Here live on theCUBE, which we continue our day one coverage of AWS re:Invent, along Lauren Cooney. I'm John Walls and 40,000 of our best friends. >> Closest friends. >> That's right. It's a great venue. The Sands is. We're joined now by Tyson Clark. He's the technical director of Air Bud Entertainment. Tyson, thanks for joining us here on theCUBE. >> Thank you for having me. >> First off, let's talk about Air Bud. I mean so, you guys made Air Bud, right? >> We did. >> And you have other projects going as well? >> Yep. Right now we're working on a TV series for Disney. It's going to be about 22 episodes teaching how puppies become puppies while their owners are at school. >> How puppies become puppies? >> How puppies become puppies! >> Coming to a theater, maybe a TV channel near you? >> Disney Streaming. >> Disney Streaming? Good enough, fair enough. >> Aw, very cool. >> Alright tell us about technical director. So, you're the IT guy. >> I am the IT guy. >> You're handling a multitude of problems from a lot of different stakeholders. Tell us about it. >> So I do everything from password reset and the easy stuff all the way up to the most complicated, setting up our whole network, rendered farms, et cetera. >> So you're doing full stack IT? >> I'm doing absolutely everything. Full stack, everything. >> That's pretty impressive. >> A rare breed. >> It is. It's definitely a hand full. >> What do you work on that I would say, we've been talking to folks, like Cohesity and things along those lines. Do you use Cohesity? What are some of the things that you do with them? >> I definitely use Cohesity for our backups. They are a lifesaver. Tape backup just wasn't cutting it for us. We were generating way too much data to be able back it up to tape. Cohesity has allowed us to backup to that and pass it off to the cloud for archival. >> Well, wow. >> Sp what, in terms of the entertainment company, you talk about the data that their generating. >> Yes. >> I mean what are they trying to keep track of? What are you trying to do for them in that respect that hasn't been done before? >> So what we're doing is when we film something, we don't want to get rid of those assets. They're pretty expensive to make. So, we got to hold on to them. We got to make sure they're all recorded. We pass it off to the cloud for archival and then, next movie, say we need a dog from that movie, or an object we built. We can always bring it back and then reuse it. >> From a security standpoint, because there have been some instances-- >> Some pretty bad ones, yep. >> Where's that fit on your pyramid of concern? >> That's extremely high. In the media entertainment business it's very strict on what security rules are. We're right up there. It's pretty much number one. >> Great, so what do you hear? What's interesting for you here at AWS re:Invent? >> Pardon me? >> What is interesting for you here at AWS re:Invent? What are the things that you see as exciting and that you really want to put your hands on? >> Well, what I'm really interested in right is being able to burst in the cloud. So I'm trying to find a solution that will let me scale out my render farm on demand, instantly, pretty much. So, going up to, who knows how many cores. Just to get that render through so we can get our shots done in time. >> Great, anyone that you're looking at here? >> Not yet. Still trying to look around and find someone. >> Very cool. >> A lot of good contenders. >> So what is it in terms of how your job has evolved? If you had to cite, these are probably two or three of maybe the larger concerns that we've had that are being addressed now and fast forward that to next step, next iteration about what kind of, if there's anything that keeps you up at night, what that is? >> Well, what keeps me up at night right now is switching to 4K. A lot of people think you just flip the switch, it's easy, but that means we have four times the amount of data. It takes twice as long to render. It takes four times longer to move things around. It just, it's insane. >> So you're really excited about 5G? >> 5G will help, but right now we're looking at quadrupling pretty much all our storage. It's going to be a very exciting time and a very scary time for us. >> Who are you stakeholders, internally, and how do you handle them? Because I assume that its a dispersate group. You've got a lot of different people with a lot of different priorities, and because you're wearing that IT hat, you're the guy. You're the department that everybody's coming to for answers. >> The biggest person I deal with, personally is the CFO. The other one is the CEO, and they're both worried because I'm telling them I need to buy $5 million worth of infrastructure. The only way I can justify that is showing them. Hey look, it's working better than it was ever before. It's a better product every day. >> Yeah and we're seeing that more and more across the board with IT really having to be the partner of the CFO to actually get the budget to do what you want to do. I think that's pretty consistent for organizations that want to move forward. >> And the budgets are just getting bigger and bigger unfortunately. >> Do you find that rationalizing becomes, is a more critical factor now? >> Absolutely. Before you could get away with a lot smaller, like 10 terabytes was great. Now we're looking at petabytes. It's definitely, rationalizing is needed a lot more now. >> Is there anybody beyond the CFO? I would assume. You're got a lot of people knocking, or CFO, a lot of people knocking on your door. Hey Tyson. I need this, I need this. >> The CFO and the CEO are two best friends, and they're both the top dogs. They're the ones kind of running the whole show there. I'm pretty lucky in that aspect. >> What are you going to do to help solve their problems? Say in the coming year, if you had to say, okay this is going to be a bottleneck. This is going to be a problem. This is how I'm going to address it. What would that be for you in 2019? >> The biggest bottleneck, like I said, is just going to be data. We've got to get four time more or our Isilon. We've got to get four time more of our Qumulo. We've also have to get four times more of our Cohesity, and that's the main part. If we don't have that cohesity, we're done. >> Well I can solve a problem for you for next year. If you're looking for another dog, Lauren's got this gorgeous mix of dane lab. About 120 pounder. >> His name is Milo. He'd be perfect for a film. >> Milo, all right. >> Perfect. >> Just let us know if you need help next year. >> Absolutely. As long as that dog loves treats. >> I'm sure that's not a problem. Tyson, thanks for being with us. >> Thank you so much. >> Thank you so much. >> We'll continue our coverage here, live on theCUBE. We're at AWS re:Invent in Las Vegas. (upbeat music)

(upbeat electronic music) >> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone! This is theCUBE's live coverage here in Las Vegas for Amazon Web Services re:Invent. I'm John Furrier with Lauren Cooney, your hosts here at theCUBE. You got two sets. We have a great guest, CUBE alumni Ronen Schwartz, who's the senior vice president and general manager of Cloud, Big Data and Data Integration for Informatica. As you know, we cover their events. Great to see you. >> Great to see you as well. >> So, one thing that jumps out me here at this show, and I want to get your reaction right out of the gate is, Amazon's scale is unprecedented. And they're using that scale to create differentiation and competitive advantage. This is something that's familiar to you guys. You guys have scale with your data. Big data at scale now is something that's become, I won't say en vogue, it's popular because people are now obviously seeing I need to do better with my data. I need a data platform. No data platform, I'm not successful. Your thoughts. >> I think you're absolutely right, and scale is the key word for customer to be successful. And I truly believe that the cloud is offering this ability of infinite scale and who better than Amazon to actually demonstrate that. We definitely have a lot of customer that are demonstrating scale in a repeatable mode. One of my favorite statistics about Informatica cloud is the fact that the amount of data that we process actually doubles every six months. And every time when I look into the number, the number now is five trillion records in a month. Every time I look at the numbers, I say-- >> In your cloud? >> Just going through our cloud, right? And I'm looking at this number and I'm saying like, can we really double it once again? So far in the last five years, that had actually been a statistic, so, I agree with you, scale is part of the game. >> Talk about what you guys are doing here at re:Invent this year. Obviously your partnership has been there for a while. What's you guys announcing? What's the story? What's the conversation this week for Informatica? >> Informatica is announcing here a solution that we build together with AWS and Tableau, really introducing next generation analytics. If you had want to modernize the way you look and work with data, you actually can get a best-of-breed integration, a data catalog, together with a modern data warehouse in the cloud from Amazon, and basically Tableau, Tableau Cloud, to reach out self-service. All of that could be now started in one button, everything is already integrated, working, optimized for customers, new and existing, to really get value from their data. >> And the future of your business is what? Fill in the blank. The future of Informatica is blank. Fill in the blank. >> Enterprise cloud data management. Really supporting customers in a data-driven, in a data-driven world. Helping customer navigate that, the huge transformation that is happening now with the market with data. >> Ronen, what do you think about Amazon moving up the stack? Obviously there's a lot of services you've seen. Redshift, Kinesis, Aurora, all these are new. Give me those, not just EC2 anymore, although they're touting a lot of EC2, they have the big groundbreaking news around the satellites. It's called, Ground. Something earth's. Satellite provisioning. Ground Station. The provisioning connectivity. So your data's going to get more foam. They're going to create more edge data. >> Right, the world for IT is changing in an unbelievable way. And I do think that Amazon is changing it, some of it is in the upmarket, but they are changing the way operations works, they are changing the way the backend is working. And you're right, I mean, any way, from trucks that go with data to satellites, they are changing the way people work. >> There's kind of changes to the edge, but they're also highlighting analytics, right? Machine learning, AI, this is something that you guys have been doing as well. It's going to put more emphasis on analytics and automation. How does that affect your business? How do you talk to your customers saying, what does this mean for me? I'm an Informatica customer. >> For Informatica, the more data the customer have, the more data the end users are enabled to use, the more business it is for us. It actually means that data is more important. Data is more important means that data management is more important, and this is really where we help customer get value. >> So I have a question, and this is kind of a clarification. So are you talking about when your customers consume, or can understand their data? So is it information or is data? >> You're touching a really important point, which is the difference between raw data and basically valuable data, information, and conclusion. Informatica is helping the customer from identifying the data, discovering the right data, all the way into improving the data with data quality, with normalization, et cetera, all the way to the place that the data is ready to be investigated. To become information. And basically this is our role, and it actually complements really, really nicely the real changes that are happening with the storage, with analytics, analytics and scale. And definitely with the rise of AI, people are not just looking backwards into what the data mean in the past, they actually trying to leverage data in order to guess and understand what will happen going forward. >> So can you give me a use case? Like a customer use case that you have. Understanding that you may or may not be able to talk about a specific customer, but just in general. >> Let me give you a few examples. One of my favorite examples is a lot of the medicines hae been discovered by a practitioner, usually a doctor, identifying something that happened to two of his patients. But the human memory in a single practitioner, like a doctor, that he can remember what happened a few months back, a few years back, for only his patients. Informatica, actually together with AWS, is supporting MD Anderson in a massive implementation of a data lake that collects what happens to millions of patients from hundreds and thousands of hospitals, so that you can actually identify repeatable patterns that can lead to new medicine and new investigation. >> It's also faster innovation because that's when you're running through that data to get the results from the clinical studies and things like that. That is tremendous. That would really increase the speed there. >> You're absolutely right. The next part of that is actually, how do you make innovation faster? This is instead of human beings connecting the dots, machine learning, AI, and other advanced methodologies that help you identify, basically, these patterns. These unique situation that actually can drive somebody to invent a new medicine, it can drive somebody else to sell more effectively, a third-party to do maintenance better, and so on. >> So have you thought about pushing the business a little bit further and innovating with a customer? Co-creation and things along those lines. >> Innovate with the customer, sorry, can you repeat? >> Innovation with a customer. Once they are kind of turning the data into information, and are you looking at co-creating with your customers? Is that something that you're into? >> So Informatica is actually making sure that the data that is driving the innovation is the right data, in the right shape, in the right quality, and is available for the innovation. The innovation that is driven from the data is where tools like AWS, AI, and machine learning, the data warehousing, and others, are actually being leveraged. >> Okay. >> Talk about the update on Amazon's relationship. You guys have had a partnership with them. Is there any updates? What's the current status? >> Definitely. So Informatica basically empowers all of its customers to run any of their Informatica implementation on AWS without any additional cost, and so on. What we have done in the last few years is more than that. We actually helped them optimize how they're running existing workloads, leveraging the power of cloud, or to scaling, automatic performance adjustment, scale up and scale down, in a very effective way. And what we're doing right now to get together with AWS is actually empowering customer to drive migration of data to the cloud. Helping customer identify security and vulnerabilities on the data layer. All of that in an automated way. Where I want to end it up is that today if you're leveraging any of the Amazon data services, any of the storage, et cetera, Informatica is offering an optimized way to bring data from on-premise, from other clouds, to AWS. >> The data catalog is a dream for AI and machine learning. Really, if you think about it, if the brains are going to be in the cloud, data catalog is kind of like the connective tissue. >> I totally agree. I mean it's actually interesting that the classical bottleneck which was compute is actually disappeared. (John laughing) You have an infinite amount of power to compute. Even your ability to have access to advance algorithms, and so on, has been resolved. They're all available as a service to be used. However, these sophisticated, really bright AI users, they're, you're right, they're bottleneck is can I find that data that is needed for me for my algorithm? Can I make sure this data is the right data? The data catalog, or Informatica enterprise data catalog, the catalog don't just go to one place, but to the whole enterprise, is key to reach good AI. >> The FBI just talked today. A big speech this morning at Teresa Carlson's event. They can't put the pieces together on these investigations fast enough for the bad guys because of the database problem. They need to have the catalogs to these data lakes, they need the AI, they need the compute. You guys got it all! Ronen, thanks for joining us. Thanks for sharing your insights again. >> Thank you. >> Hey, my pleasure, really exciting show. A lot, a lot of exciting news. >> Great to see you. >> Thank you. >> All the stuff we talked about three years ago is happening now! Informatica, check it out! Of course theCUBE covers Informatica's events. I do a lot of hosting there. I'm here with Lauren Cooney, here at Amazon re:Invent. Wall-to-wall coverage, three days of programming. Stay with us for more after this short break. (futuristic beep) (futuristic electronic music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. Live coverage here with theCUBE at Amazon Web Service re:Invent. I'm John Furrier. My cohost, Lauren Cooney, here. Breaking down all the action. Lot of announcements coming out of Amazon Web Services. Lot of killers new technologies, but also the IT game is changing. The two great guests from Cisco Assistant, Dave Cope, who's the Senior Director of Cloud Market Development, and Kip Compton, Senior Vice President Cloud Platform and Solutions. We got the big chiefs here. We've got the marketing development here. The Cisco store. I Tweeted just about an hour ago that your story is really aligned with Amazon. You had a recent announcement. The holy trinity of storage networking and compute is never going to go away, but it's changing. This is absolutely a big, pivotal moment with on-premises activity. You guys are on-premises king at Cisco. How is this changing your business with AWS? >> Well no, it's been an incredible year. Dave and I were just reflecting on it as we got ready for AWS. And it's a year where we started with people questioning hybrid. Multicloud was kind of new. Kubernetes looked like it was going to take off. And I think every major cloud provider now has announced the Kubernetes service. Hybrid is described as the new normal. And of course, Kubernetes and containers are an almost ideal technology for things like hybrid and multicloud. So its been an incredible year. And you mentioned the announcement we made three weeks ago with our hybrid, Kubernetes solution on AWS. And we've just gotten incredible interest in that. A lot of people interested in that solution, because most enterprises, as exciting as public cloud is, and as fast as they can move in that environment, have things that for whatever reason are on-prem and need to stay on-prem for some period of time. So really being able to bring those environments together is critical. >> You know, I got to say, Kip. I'm really impressed with Cisco's business model evolution. I've obviously been a big fan from day one, proud of the network. I just interviewed John Chambers just two weeks ago. Great to see the legend there. But what a great business model Cisco has with networking. Moving up the stack has always been a challenge, but since DevNet and DevNet Create, you started to see that the DevNet developer community, the Cisco ecosystem, was really gravitating towards cloud. Network guys are fickle. You either win 'em or you don't. They hold on to the network. They got to protect it. The cloud somehow changed the dynamic. And cloud-native, what is the dynamic there? 'Cause you guys have now stated publicly, developers, cloud-native, the Kubernetes announcement, you see a world where the network is borderless. >> Yep. >> But hybrid is the standard. Call it whatever you want, cloud or hybrid. It is what it is. How has cloud changed Cisco so much? >> Well, I mean I think not just cloud, but the network has changed. All of our customers, since they're adopting DevOps, and I think it's 54% of enterprises have begun a DevOps journey, because it just drives innovation at a much higher pace. And we're finding in almost every industry, in order to compete, companies have to be able to move fast in delivering incredible experiences to their customers and their employees in the form of apps. And DevOps is the way to do that. And to do DevOps, you need a fully-automated infrastructure. And so that, I think, is one of the reasons why DevNet, our developer program, has grown so much. We're really excited to see DevNet pass 500,000, half a million members of DevNet, right? And many of these are networking engineers who are learning how to program on Cisco equipment as we've added APIs across our portfolio, and brought programmable controllers into the picture as well. So we're seeing that then mesh very well with cloud, 'cause obviously DevOps is not just for on-prem, but it's for cloud, it's for hybrid. And as we bring a fully-automated infrastructure on-prem, that matches up very well with fully-automated infrastructures like AWS and enables these hybrid-use cases and DevOps in a hybrid model. >> That's great. And I think what you're doing with open-source technology is just phenomenal as well. Talk about some of the use cases that you guys see across the industry. If you can mention customer names, that's awesome. If you can't, I get it. But I'd love to hear more about how they're applying the solution today. >> You know, I think there's a number of use cases. One thing that's been really interesting, Kip reflected on sort of coming out of last year into this realization that multicloud was real. And I think we also, there was this realization that it wasn't just about saving money to move to the cloud. That now it was about going to different cloud environments to leverage innovation that could be occurring in different environments. So one of the use cases we see is how do we maybe develop a new application on a cloud that has a unique service, maybe like machine learning or AI that I want to leverage? We're starting to see other use cases where people are realizing it's not about lifting and shifting, or moving applications. But now I want to take an on-premise resource and maybe give it a facelift with a new, cool capability that resides on a different cloud. All of that, by having sort of common management, policy-based governance, are some of the use cases that we see. Certain DevOps is a big one. At the end of the day, we talked about developers. At the end of the day, developers want their apps to be able to move into production. And so with DevOps, the cloud, we're starting to see this overlap between developers and IT ops now working together to be able to ensure that these new applications can be put into production across many different environments. >> What's the biggest challenge you guys see customer's having? What problem are they trying to solve? Networking, you own the network. Networking's not going away. It's evolving. What's the big challenge that your buyers and your customers have right now? >> Maybe I'll say a few words, and he can add as well. Networking and security regularly show up at the top of any sort of survey about what's difficult with cloud. We're very fortunate that those are areas where we have very deep portfolios and could solve a lot of customer problems. It's very interesting to me, and I mentioned this in my talk this morning, but a study we did with IDC on cloud maturity found that only 14% of enterprises had an optimized cloud strategy. And what that means is 86% are trying to improve their cloud strategy, and are looking for solutions and things they can solve. So it's incredibly fertile area for us to help our customers really take advantage of their on-prem assets, but also multiple clouds in the multicloud world. >> I think one of the realizations is the cloud is not like the cloud. It's multiple public clouds. It's private clouds, virtual private clouds. And so even traditional disciplines like security and network management, when you're trying to do that across environments that you both control and don't control, they take on a whole new complexion. And so that's some of the challenges and the opportunities, I think, that companies are looking for across the cloud today. >> Well, I think it's an interesting story, too, with Cisco, because the strength has really emerged in the security arena, and that is the one thing that people are most concerned about when they're using Kubernetes. So I think just phenomenally, that's really something that's coming together nicely. Are you guys working with a security team and really kind of making things more secure for folks to make them more comfortable utilizing this solution, or can you talk a little bit about that? >> Yeah, sure, no. We are certainly working with a security team. And that's, as a former Cisco employee, I know you're familiar with Cisco. But one of the things that's different about cloud for us is that every part of Cisco is involved in our cloud strategy, right? So as you know from Cisco, and lot of customers who with Cisco know, we tend to have big groups inside the company that focus on certain technologies, be it data center or networking or whatever. Cloud is across all of those. And a big part of what Dave and I do, and the group that I lead does, is work across all of those groups to make sure that things come together for our customers. >> That's awesome. >> For instance, the solution that we announced three weeks ago on AWS for hybrid Kubernetes actually works with our security products, and has Stealthwatch Cloud from our security group integrated in the solution to give consistent security across the AWS EKS environment and the on-prem data center environment. So we're very much stitching security into everything we do. >> When you guys talk to customers, what do you say to them when they say okay, I'm a Cisco shop. We have a lot of on-premise. I'm looking at cloud. What do I do? How do you describe the ideal architecture and playbook for really working with cloud? To give the customer the best choice, all the stuff that they want, what's your recommendation? How do you talk to that customer? What do you recommend? >> Yeah, I don't know if there's a single path. I mean, that's one thing we found is it's, I hate to say it's complicated. But every customer has a different set of apps, maybe different constraints depending on what industry they're in, or what part of the world they're in, in terms of data protection. They may have different on-premise states. Applications that maybe they can't move, like an old ERP system. Or maybe simply investments that they want to continue to get value out of. So a lot of times, we end up engaging with them or one of our Cisco partners ends up engaging with them on sort of a cloud advisory process to understand their environment. But you know, there are definitely some trends that we're seeing. I think Dave and I can talk about. One is I've seen a lot more interest in how you develop new experiences in applications. And Dave mentioned it, but a big shift towards accelerating innovation with cloud, as opposed to minimizing cost. And I think it's a logical maturation as people see that as a lever to be more competitive. But really, every customer has a slightly different journey. >> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Scale, automation, moving from the command-line interface to dashboards. (laughs) >> Yeah, all about APIs in between, by the way. >> All right, guys. Give us the final word here on what's next. You guys got a great deal going on with Amazon. I love the Kubernetes announcement. As you know, we've been hiring Kubernetes since it started, but recently there's a lot going on there under the covers. Containers, different workloads, great for inter-clouding or multiclouding or hybrid clouding, whatever word they're calling it these days. What's next for you guys? Give us a quick peak into the, what's come up at Cisco Live in Barcelona? What's on the roadmap? What's your budget look like? (laughs) >> I know that look, so I definitely want to hear what that is. >> Tell us the secret sauce. >> Maybe I'll just tee it up and you jump in. When I look at a hybrid cloud and multicloud, a lot of the innovation we've seen was first really about cloud management platforms, creating some degree of abstraction across clouds. And then along came containers, Kubernetes you could develop and deploy anywhere. I think the big opportunity and challenge today is all of those have been focused on the app. Now how do we create this fluidity of data sources across this multicloud world? And that's an exciting opportunity right now. How do I not have the requirement to move big loads of data around, but access that data anywhere it resides to feed these new applications? So I think that's a big part of where hybrid cloud is going. >> You're focused. Are you hiring? What's the focus? What's coming on? What's the next deals you're going to do? >> Well, I mean we're big on Kubernetes as you can tell as well, so you're going to see continued innovation there, as well as security. You mentioned that. We think serverless is very interesting for where that could go. It's going to take some time, I think, for that to become mainstream from a developer perspective. But just to pile on to what Dave said, we started the year with oh, this hybrid, or is Kubernetes, is multicloud? All of that seems to be a resounding yes at this point, but we're moving from creating similar environments to really starting to integrate those environments. I think what we announced three weeks ago is a good example of where we create a single control play between those environments. Data exchange and tying that data together for hybrid, I think going from hybrid and evolving to multicloud, right? Where we have customers already saying oh, wait a second. We love your AWS announcement. We remember your Google announcement. You're giving us a common infrastructure on the on-prem side that can connect to multiple clouds. That's lowering the friction, lowering the complexity, making it easier for us. 'Cause customers are saying look, we need to harvest all the innovation. AWS is amazing, but TensorFlow at Google is a real thing. That's a real deal for some people. >> And that's important here in their framework, too, Amazon is. >> Yeah, absolutely. So we think it's an exciting time, and the pace of innovation's going to be, the one thing is the future's going to be hard to predict. That's the safe bet. >> You guys are on it. I'm excite to see. We've been pounding our fists on the table for years. The TCP/IP of the future is right in front of you. It's called Kubernetes! (laughs) Really great opportunity. You guys have good strategy. Congratulations. See how it plays out. Multicloud, make what's obvious, pretty obvious. Thanks for coming on, appreciate it. >> Great. >> Thanks. >> Thanks for your insight, thanks for the insight. Live coverage here on theCUBE. Stay with us for more after this short break. We'll be right back. Wall-to-wall coverage here at AWS re:Invent. I'm John Furrier and Lauren Cooney. Stay with us. (upbeat music)

live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California it's the queue covering Devon that create 2018 brought to you by Cisco okay welcome back everyone we're live here in Silicon Valley in Mountain View California it's keeps coverage dev net create here I'm John Firth mykos Lauren Cooney and next is Louie Louis froyo Technical Evangelist an IBM good to see you again thank you for having me Lauren ketchup IBM love to think shirt welcome back thank you thank you it's great here so what's going on for you here I am partnering with Cisco what's let's get what's going on well here are we're here to help you know sort of promote the idea around IOT analytics at the edge right with the idea of demonstrating a lot of the IBM products you know I did a workshop today and you know a lot of hands-on mechanical stuff but also leveraging some of the IOT technology offered by IBM so IBM cloud cloud analytics mainly is what you're doing that's right we've chat in the past going back big day two days Anup days when it was you know fashionable now it's kind of have a that's more data leaks nothing let's do the central part of the conversation ai is obviously Mark Zuckerberg and presenting in front of or testifying in front of the Senate's right it's all around AI in analytics Asli dated the data rules change but year conversation with Cisco is IOT yeah because a lot of the network stuff edge of the network these are paradigms that our network inherently perfect for Cisco that's right IBM does a lot of IOT job do a lot a blockchain work as well yeah this is all serving enterprise so what's the big theme real relevant theme for enterprises when it comes to things like how do I use flop chain or how do I use IOT how do I incorporate that tech into my enterprise well I think the first the first barrier is to just understand the technology and the limitations of that technology so you mentioned blockchain you know I'm out quite a bit in the field talking to people talking to partners IBM partners customers customers and there's this confusion around what's a blockchain is what blockchain is all about and the same with big data back in the day you mentioned you know we met up with some conferences back then I think they need to understand what the technologies do what they serve what purposes they serve so blockchain is fairly new right there's a lot of confusion there was the same with big data back and a very confusing IOT you know when we go out as a Technical Evangelist my team we go out and we talk to people there's an appetite to learn more to understand what this IOT thing is and how can they use it how did how can it help us make more money what are they drilling down on our where or better yet what are you evangelizing in what's what are they receptive to what's what's working for them what are they resonates with the customers or potential customers that you guys talk to first and foremost the fact that you know when we go out we have live sessions and we train we give them hands-on right out of the gate within you know 20 minutes they have a bot checkoff built within an hour we build a blockchain right with it with and they do it they see it they experience it and that excites them and then along the way we also we try to educate them on you know why this is important this is how it can be used you know IOT is you know this confusion around that - you know how can i leverage this but I've also talked to customers where they're doing some cool stuff with the edge and I think that leads to my next question actually was which is what use cases do you see what our customers talking about you know I think if you have people building block chains and things along those lines that's great but what are they going to apply it - yeah so there's a perfect example working with a customer and they they're businesses around drones you know UAVs to go out and look for anomalies on pipelines oil pipelines so they have a great technology a drone you know we can go 100 kilometers an hour they can go 100 kilometers in distance but what they need they really need to be able to look for things that shouldn't be there so computer vision you know machine learning deep learning and so we're working with them now to help them get the technology just right to live on the drone to be able to do image recognition highly with high accuracy in real-time so the machine learning in the IOT working out on the edge so is that Watson machine learning no no because it has to happen no we could do or watching today right the problem is you have to have that long-haul communication with the cloud now this needs to happen on the drone in real time okay so we're working with them to figure out you know how we can achieve that and there's some things coming out of IBM and in their future that'll make that a bit easier great and I think that that's an exciting awesome use case to be able to do computer vision on the fly and you know using these neural networks to make decisions I mean the drone example is real life and it's one of those things where we've seen many presentations and examples one of them I loves kind of I'm a wireless geek but I love the towers and I like to see how those they send your owns up there to look at the equipment and then look for repair so it's all automated it's all perfectly executed in the airspace if you will not name space but it goes in there you know power lines you know drones are being used to clear that's right debris and power line all kinds of use cases I think Accenture once told us there was a use case where on car accidents are scenes where they got to take the road and Thrones come in to a full representation and visual and reduces the that's right it's a time to survey the scene along you know one that's read you think about the wind farms these huge wind farms and they have to do inspections use some of these fields you see they're just 500 you know turbines out there and so you need to get out there and the drones are perfect they can look at the blades and you know because they have the high-speed cameras and those blades return and they can still look for defects and fractures and in predict you know using analytics again out there you know predictive maintenance to say hey you know there's something going on here you help us with the cube join me we did cube drone to go out and cover all of our events for us absolutely I'd love to work interviews I'd love to work with you guys that would be null series now just kidding aside is there a profile that you see with customers that resonates well in terms of why are some people more successful now on the cutting edge thing is they got the foresight they got the budget at IT what what's the perfect configuration what makes the customers or a tune to knocking down these low hanging fruit scenarios so I'm gonna say something that's obvious and I'm sure you see it all the time but it's just the risk risk-averse you know you need to put yourself out there you need to be you know a next-gen thinker and that's how we you know within my team when we think about going out and finding these next-gen partners you know born in the cloud you know they're thinking they're thinking beyond what's the from you so the people that are doing these this cool work there either you know a really hardcore tech you know like the drone example or these young entrepreneurs who really don't have much to lose and they have these great ideas you know certainly around blockchain I've heard some some cool ideas around blockchain what people want to do with it and so they you know they're small they're agile they have a vision and they'll take the chance you know the theme here that's interesting and Laura and I were talking about earlier is that the co-creation model is really where the ideas are going to come from so the old model was you pixton technology selection and you put it to work and you that should appreciate or amortize it over whatever period financially to pay back period all that nonsense now to a world where all the ideas are coming from the teams themselves yeah so the the suppliers the vendors don't pitch here's our IOT solution place our IOT fabric is invest Indies are the new approaches the new posture for vendors where these developers who are creating all the action yeah it certainly you know you see that look yeah yeah yeah that's how just you know the workshop we did here today you know if someone wants to kick the tires and wants to learn you know you're not gonna go to proprietary vendor equipments like the big data back in the day you know everyone started with the dupe that was the center of it right open so yeah and it's the same here so there's a lot of Technology open source free technology for people to go out and do prototypes and figure out what they need to do and that's what we're seeing people you know certainly when we go out and do our live events with IBM hands on immediately you know you're doing IOT solutions right so you can take it away and you can go back and then now you can apply it and build on it so you know it's going back to just education and people understanding what these technologies are how to use them and and how to get started you know the proverbial HelloWorld program is there a big event coming up for IBM you got you're gonna be going towards or what's your schedule look like you're on the road a lot what are the big things you got going on well we just had think out in Vegas are you guys were there I was there and we had IBM index not too long before that so that's sort of like the developer event like this for us on a team Aman we have schedules throughout the year to go through various cities there are 15 of us all around the country you know hosting meetups and you know initiating meetups getting partner events co-hosting with developers or cxos or oh so we we target the development team and we target the you know the decision maker around making purchases right so they need to be a part of that story you know we can easily win over the developers with our technology the hard part is winning over the people that signed the check so yeah it's exciting buddy thanks for stopping by great to see you yeah thank you very much your job analytics the heart of the IOT Louis froley Oh Technical Evangelist at IBM you know in the days where all the action is obviously the date as the center you got AI blockchain that's IBM's vision love does love the new love the new messaging from IBM right money we have two definite create here in Silicon Valley more live coverage after this short break

>> Announcer: Live, from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE. Covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its Ecosystem Partners. >> Well everyone, welcome back to the live coverage of theCUBE here in Copenhagen, Denmark for KubeCon, Kubernetes Con 2018, part of the CNCF, Cloud Native Compute Foundation, part of the Linux Foundation. I'm John Furrier with Lauren Cooney, the founder of Spark Labs, breaking down day two, wrapping up our coverage of KubeCon and all the success that we've seen with Kubernetes, I thought it would be really appropriate to bring on the cofounder of KubeCon originally, Joseph Jacks, known as JJ in the industry, a good friend of theCUBE and part of the early formation of what is now Cloud Native. We were all riffing on that at the time. welcome back to theCUBE, great to see you. >> Thank you for having me John. >> So, for the story, for the folks out there, you know Cloud Native was really seen by the devops community, and infrastructure code was no secret to the insiders in the timeframes from 2010 through 2015, 16 timeframe, but really it was an open stack summit. A lot of people were kind of like, hey, you know, Google's got Kubernetes, they're going to open it up and this could be a real game changer, container, Docker was flying off the shelves. So we just kind of saw, right, and you were there and we were talking so there was a group of us. You were one of them. And you founded KubeCon, and bolted into the, at that time, the satellite Linux Foundation events, and then you pass it off as a good community citizen to the CNCF, so I wanted to just make sure that people knew that. What a great success. What's your impression? I mean, are you blown away? >> I am definitely blown away. I mean I think the size and scale of the European audience is remarkable. We had something like slightly less than half this in Austin last year. So to see more than that come here in Europe I think shows the global kind of growth curve as well as like, I think, Dan and someone else was asking sort of raise your hand if you've been to Kubecon Austin and very few actually, so there's a lot of new people showing up in Europe. I think it just shows the demand-- >> And Dan's been traveling around. I've seen him in China, some events I've been to. >> Joseph: All over. >> He's really working hard so props to him. We gave him some great props earlier. But he also told us Shanghai is coming online. >> Joseph: Yeah. >> So you got Shanghai, you to Barcelona next year for the European show, and of course Seattle. This is a community celebrating right now because there's a lot of high fives going on right now because there's a lot of cool, we've got some sort of core standard, defacto standard, now let's go to work. What are you working on now? You got a stealth startup? Share a little bit about it. I know you don't want to give the details out, but where is it kind of above the stack? Where you going to be playing? >> Sure, so we're not talking too much in terms of specifics and we're pretty stealthy, but I can tell you what I'm personally very excited about in terms of where Kubernetes is going and kind of where this ecosystem is starting to mature for practitioners, for enterprises. So one of the things that I think Kubernetes is starting to bring to bear is this idea of commoditizing distributed systems for everyday developers, for everyday enterprises. And I think that that is sort of the first time in sort of maybe, maybe the history of software development, software engineering and building applications, we're standardizing on a set of primitives, a set of building blocks for distributed system style programming. You know we had in previous eras things like Erlang and fault tolerant programming and frameworks, but those were sort of like pocketed into different programming communities and different types of stacks. I think Kubernetes is the one sort of horizontal technology that the industry's adopting and it's giving us these amazing properties, so I think some of the things that we're focusing on or excited about involve sort of the programming layer on top of Kubernetes in simplifying the experience of kind of bringing all stateful and enterprise workloads and different types of application paradigms natively into Kubernetes without requiring a developer to really understand and learn the Kubernetes primitives themselves. >> That's next level infrastructure as code. Yeah so as Kubernetes becomes more successful, as Kubernetes succeeds at a larger and larger scale, people simply shouldn't have to know or understand the internals. There's a lot of people, I think Kelsey and a few other people, started to talk about Kubernetes as the Linux kernel of distributed computing or distributed systems, and I think that's a really great way of looking at it. You know, do programmers make file system calls directly when they're building their applications? Do they script directly against the kernel for maybe some very high performance things. But generally speaking when you're writing a service or you're writing a microservice or some business logic, you're writing at a higher level of abstraction and a language that's doing some IO and maybe some reading and writing files, but you're using higher level abstractions. So I think by the same token, the focus today with Kubernetes is people are learning this API. I think over time people are going to be programming against that API at a higher level. And what are you doing here, the show? Obviously you're (mumbles) so you're doing some (mumbles) intelligence. Conversations you've been in, can you share your opinion of what's going on here? Your thoughts on the content program, the architecture, the decisions they've made. >> I think we've just, so lots of questions in there. What am I doing here? I just get so energized and I'm so, I just get reinvigorated kind of being here and talking to people and it's just super cool to see a lot of old faces, people who've been here for a while, and you know, one of the things that excites me, and this is just like proof that the event's gotten so huge. I walk around and I see a lot of familiar faces, but more than 80, 90% of people I've never seen before, and I'm like wow this has like gotten really super huge mainstream. Talking with some customers, getting a good sense of kind of what's going on. I think we've seen two really huge kind of trends come out of the event. One is this idea of multicloud sort of as a focus area, and you've talked with Bassam at Upbound and the sort of multicloud control plane, kind of need and demand out there in the community and the user base. I think what Bassam's doing is extremely exciting. The other, so multicloud is a really big paradigm that most companies are sort of prioritizing. Kubernetes is available now on all the cloud providers, but how do we actually adopt it in a way that is agnostic to any cloud provider service. That's one really big trend. The second big thing that I think we're starting to see, just kind of across a lot of talks is taking the Kubernetes API and extending it and wrapping it around stateful applications and stateful workloads, and being able to sort of program that API. And so we saw the announcement from Red Hat on the operator framework. We've seen projects like Kube Builder and other things that are really about sort of building native custom Kubernetes APIs for your applications. So extensibility, using the Kubernetes API as a building block, and then multicloud. I think those are really two huge trends happening here. >> What is your view on, I'm actually going to put you on test here. So Red Hat made a bet on Kubernetes years ago when it was not obvious to a lot of the other big wales. >> Joseph: From the very beginning really. >> Yeah from the very beginning. And that paid off huge for Red Hat as an example. So the question is, what bets should people be making if you had to lay down some thought leadership on this here, 'cause you obviously are in the middle of it and been part of the beginning. There's some bets to be made. What are the bets that the IBMs and the HPs and the Cisco's and the big players have to make and what are the bets the startups have to make? >> Well yeah, there's two angles to that. I mean, I think the investment startups are making, are different set of investments and motivated differently than the multinational, huge, you know, technology companies that have billions of dollars. I think in the startup category, startups just should really embrace Kubernetes for speeding the way they build reliable and scalable applications. I think really from the very beginning Kubernetes is becoming kind of compelling and reasonable even at a very small scale, like for two or three node environment. It's becoming very easy to run and install and manage. Of course it gives you a lot of really great properties in terms of actually running, building your systems, adopting microservices, and scaling out your application. And that's what's sort of like a direct end user use case, startups, kind of building their business, building their stack on Kubernetes. We see companies building products on top of Kubernetes. You see a lot of them here on the expo floor. That's a different type of vendor startup ecosystem. I think there's lots of opportunities there. For the big multinationals, I think one really interesting thing that hasn't really quite been done yet, is sort of treating Kubernetes as a first-class citizen as opposed to a way to commercialize and enter a new market. I think one of the default ways large technology companies tend to look at something hypergrowth like Kubernetes and TensorFlow and other projects is wrapping around it and commercializing in some way, and I think a deeper more strategic path for large companies could be to really embed Kubernetes in the core kind of crown jewel IP assets that they have. So I'll give you an example, like, for let's just take SAP, I'll just pick on SAP randomly, for no reason. This is one of the largest enterprise software companies in the world. I would encourage the co-CEOs of SAP, for example. >> John: There's only one CEO now. >> Is there one CEO now? Okay. >> John: Snabe left. It's now (drowned out by talking). >> Oh, okay, gotcha. I haven't been keeping up on the SAP... But let's just say, you know, a CEO boardroom level discussion of replatforming the entire enterprise application stack on something like Kubernetes could deliver a ton of really core meaningful benefits to their business. And I don't think like deep super strategic investments like that at that level are being made quite yet. I think at a certain point in time in the future they'll probably start to be made that way. But that's how I would like look at smart investments on the bigger scale. >> We're not seeing scale yet with Kubernetes, just the toe is in the water. >> I think we're starting to see scale, John. I think we are. >> John: What's the scale number in clusters? >> I'll give you the best example, which came up today, and actually really surprised me which I think was a super compelling example. The largest retailer in China, so essentially the Amazon of China, JD.com, is running in production for years now at 20,000 compute nodes with Kubernetes, and their largest cluster is a 5,000 node cluster. And so this is pushing the boundary of the sort of production-- >> And I think that may be the biggest one I've heard. >> Yeah, that's certainly, I mean for a disclosed user that's pretty huge. We're starting to see people actually talk publicly about this which is remarkable. And there are huge deployments out there. >> We saw Tyler Jewell come on from WSO2. He's got a new thing called Ballerina. New programming language, have you seen that? >> Joseph: I have, I have. >> Thoughts on that? What's your thoughts on that? >> You know, I think that, so I won't make any particular specific comments on Ballerina, I'm not extremely informed on it. I did play with a little bit, I don't want to give any of my opinions, but what I'd say, and I think Tyler actually mentioned this, one of the things that I believe is going to be a big deal in the coming years, is so, trying to think of Kubernetes as an implementation detail, as the kernel, do you interact directly with that? Do you learn that interface directly? Are you sort of kind of optimizing your application to be sort of natively aware of those abstractions? I think the answer to all of those questions is no, and Kubernetes is sort of delegated as a compiler target, and so frankly like directionally speaking, I think what Ballerina's sort of design is aspiring towards is the right one. Compile time abstraction for building distributed systems is probably the next logical progression. I like to think of, and I think Brendan Burns has started to talk about this over the last year or two. Everyone's writing assembly code 'cause we're swimming yaml and configuration based designs and systems. You know, sort of pseudodeclarative, but more imperative in static configurations. When in reality we shouldn't be writing these assembly artifacts. We should be delegating all of this complexity to a compiler in the same way that you know, we went from assembly to C to higher level languages. So I think over time that starts to make a lot of sense, and we're going to see a lot of innovation here probably. >> What's your take on the community formation? Obviously, it's growing, so, any observations, any insight for the folks watching what's happening in the community, patterns, trends you'd see, like, don't like. >> I think we could do a better job of reducing politics amongst the really sort of senior community leaders, particularly who have incentives behind their sort of agendas and sort of opinions, since they work for various, you know, large and small companies. >> Yeah, who horse in this race. >> Sure, and there's, whether they're perverse incentives or not, I think net the project has such a high quality genuine, like humble, focused group of people leading it that there isn't much pollution and negativity there. But I think there could be a higher standard in some cases. Since the project is so huge and there are so many very fast moving areas of evolution, there tends to be sort of a fast curve toward many cooks being in the kitchen, you know, when new things materialize and I think that could be better handled. But positive side, I think like the project is becoming incredibly diverse. I just get super excited to see Aparna from Google leading the project at Google, both on the hosted Saas offering and the Kubernetes project. People like Liz and others. And I just think it's an awesome, welcoming, super diverse community. And people should really highlight that more. 'Cause I think it's a unique asset of the project. >> Well you're involved in some deep history. I think we're going to be looking this as moment where there was once a KubeCon that was not part of the CNCF, and you know, you did the right thing, did a good thing. You could have kept it to yourself and made some good cash. >> It's definitely gotten really big, and it's way beyond me now at this point. >> Those guys did a good job with CNCF. >> They're doing phenomenal. I think vast majority of the credit, at this scale, goes to Chris Anasik and Dan Conn, and the events team at the Linux Foundation, CNCF, and obviously Kelsey and Liz and Michelle Noorali and many others. But blood, sweat, and tears. It's no small feat pulling off an event like this. You know, corralling the CFP process, coordinating speakers, setting the themes, it's a really huge job. >> And now they got to deal with all the community, licenses, Lauren your thoughts? >> Well they're consistent across Apache v2 I believe is what Dan said, so all the projects under the CNCF are consistently licensed. So I think that's great. I think they actually have it together there. You know, I do share your concerns about the politics that are going on a little bit back and forth, the high level, I tend to look back at history a little bit, and for those of us that remember JBoss and the JBoss fork, we're a little bit nervous, right? So I think that it's important to take a look at that and make sure that that doesn't happen. Also, you know, open stack and the stuff that we've talked about before with distros coming out or too many distros going to be hitting the street, and how do we keep that more narrow focused, so this can go across-- >> Yeah, I started this, I like to list rank and iterate things, and I started with this sheet of all the vendors, you know, all the Kubernetes vendors, and then Linux Foundation, or CNCF took it over, and they've got a phenomenal sort of conformance testing and sort of compliance versioning sheet, which lists all the vendors and certification status and updates and so on and I think there's 50 or 60 companies. On one hand I think that's great, because it's more innovation, lots of service providers and offerings, but there is a concern that there might be some fragmentation, but again, this is a really big area of focus, and I think it's being addressed. Yeah, I think the right ones will end up winning, right? >> Joseph: Right, for sure. >> and that's what's going to be key. >> Joseph: Healthy competition. >> Yes. >> All right final question. Let's go around the horn. We'll start with you JJ, wrapping up KubeCon 2018, your thoughts, summary, what's happened here? What will we talk about next year about what happened this week in Denmark? >> I think this week in Denmark has been a huge turning point for the growth in Europe and sort of proof that Kubernetes is on like this unstoppable inflection, growth curve. We usually see a smaller audience here in Europe, relative to the domestic event before it. And we're just seeing the numbers get bigger and bigger. I think looking back we're also going to see just the quality of end users and the end user community and more production success stories starting to become front and center, which I think is really awesome. There's lots of vendors here. But I do believe we have a huge representation of end users and companies actually sharing what they're doing pragmatically and really changing their businesses from Financial Times to Cern and physics projects, and you know, JD and other huge companies. I think that's just really awesome. That's a unique thing of the Kubernetes project. There's some hugely transformative companies doing awesome things out there. >> Lauren your thoughts, summary of the week in Denmark? >> I think it's been awesome. There's so much innovation happening here and I don't want to overuse that word 'cause I think it's kind of BS at some point, but really these companies are doing new things, and they're taking this to new levels. I think that hearing about the excitement of the folks that are coming here to actually learn about Kubernetes is phenomenal, and they're going to bring that back into their companies, and you're going to see a lot more actually coming to Europe next year. I also true multicloud would be phenomenal. I would love that if you could actually glue those platforms together, per se. That's really what I'm looking for. But also security. I think security, there needs to be a security seg. We talked to customers earlier. That's something they want to see. I think that that needs to be something that's brought to the table. >> That's awesome. My view is very simple. You know I think they've done a good job in CNCF and Linux Foundation, the team, building the ecosystem, keeping the governance and the technical and the content piece separate. I think they did a good job of showing the future state that we'd like to get to, which is true multicloud, workload portability, those things still out of reach in my opinion, but they did a great job of keeping the tight core. And to me, when I hear words like defacto standard I think of major inflection points where industries have moved big time. You think of internetworking, you think of the web, you think of these moments where that small little tweak created massive new brands and created a disruptor enabler that just created, changed the game. We saw Cisco coming out of that movement of IP with routers you're seeing 3Com come out of that world. I think that this change, this new little nuance called Kubernetes is going to be absolutely a defacto standard. I think it's definitely an inflection point and you're going to see startups come up with new ideas really fast in a new way, in a new modern global architecture, new startups, and I think people are going to be blown away. I think you're going to see fast rising growth companies. I think it's going to be an investment opportunity whether it's token economics or a venture backer private equity play. You're going to see people come out of the wood work, real smart entrepreneur. I think this is what people have been waiting for in the industry so I mean, I'm just super excited. And so thanks for coming on. >> Thank you for everything you do for the community. I think you truly extract the signal from the noise. I'm really excited to see you keep coming to the show, so it's really awesome. >> I appreciate your support, and again we're co-developing content in the open. Lauren great to host with you this week. >> Thank you, it's been awesome. >> And you got a great new venture, high five there. High five to the founder of KubeCon. This is theCUBE, not to be confused with KubeCon. And we're theCUBE, C-U-B-E. I'm John Furrier, thanks for watching. It's a wrap of day two global coverage here exclusively for KubeCon 2018, CNCF and the Linux Foundation. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in Copenhagen, Denmark for coverage of KubeCon 2018, part of the CNCF CloudNative Compute Foundation, part of the Linux Foundation, I'm John Furrier with my cohost, Lauren Cooney, the founder of Spark Labs. We're here with Kelsey Hightower, co-chair of the program as well as a staff engineer, developer, advocate, at Google Cloud Platform, a celebrity in the industry, dynamic, always great to have you on, welcome back. >> Awesome, good to be back. >> How are you feeling, tired? You've got the energy, day two? >> I'm good, I finished my keynote yesterday. My duties are done, so I get to enjoy the conference like most attendees. >> Great. Keynote was phenomenal, got good props. Great content format, very tight, moving things along. A little bit of a jab at some of the cloud providers. Someone said, "Oh, Kelsey took a jab at the cloud guys." What was that about, I mean, there was some good comments on Twitter, but, keeping it real. >> Honestly, so I work at a cloud provider, so I'm part of the cloud guys, right? So I'm at Google Cloud, and what I like to do is, and I was using Amazon's S3 in my presentation, and I was showing people basically like the dream of, in this case, serverless, here's how this stuff actually works together right now. We don't really need anything else from the cloud providers. Here's what you can do right now, so, I like to take a community perspective, When I'm on the stage, so I'm not here only to represent Google and sell for Google. I'm here to say, "Hey, here's what's possible," and my job is to kind of up-level the thinking. So that was kind of the goal of that particular presentation is like, here's all this stuff, let's not lock it all down to one particular provider, 'cause this is what we're here for, KubeCon, CloudNativeCon, is about taking all of that stuff and standardizing it and making it accessible. >> And then obviously, people are talking about the outcome, that that's preferred right now in the future, which is a multi-cloud workload portability. Kubernetes is playing a very key role in obviously the dev ops, people who have been doing it for many many years, have eaten glass, spit nails, custom stuff, have put, reaped the benefits, but now they want to make it easy. They don't want to repeat that, so with Kubernetes nice formation, a lot of people saying here on theCUBE and in the hallways that a de facto standard, the word actually said multiple times here. Interesting. >> Yeah, so you got Kubernetes becoming the de facto standard for computes, but not events, not data, not the way you want to compute those events or data, so the job isn't complete. So I think Kubernetes will solve a large portion of compute needs, thumbs up, we're good to go. Linux has done this for the virtualization layer, Kubernetes is doing it for the containerization, but we don't quite have that on the serverless side. So it's important for us all to think about where the industry is going and so it's like, hey, where the industry is moving to, where we are now, but it's also important for us to get ahead of it, and also be a part of defining what the next de facto standard should be. >> And you mentioned community, which is important, because I want to just bring this up, there's a lot of startups in the membership of CNCF, and when you have that first piece done, you mentioned the other work to be done, that's an opportunity to differentiate. This is the commercialization opportunity to strike that balance. Your reaction to that, how do you see that playing out? Because it is an opportunity to create some value. >> Honestly I'm wearing a serverless.com T-shirt right now, right, that's the startup in the space. They're trying to make serverless easy to use for everyone, regardless of the platform. I think no matter what side of the field you stand on, we need these groups to be successful. They're independent companies, they're going for ambition, they're trying to fill the gaps in what we're all doing, so if they're successful, they just make a bigger market for everyone else, so this is why not only do we try to celebrate them, we try to give them this feedback, like, "Hey, here's what we're doing, "here's what the opportunities are," so I think we need them to be successful. If they all die out every time they start something, then we may not have people trying anymore. >> And I think there's actually a serverless seg in the CNCF, right? And I think that they're doing a lot of great work to kind of start to figure out what's going on. I mean, are you aware what those guys are up to? >> Exactly, so the keynote yesterday was largely about some of the work they're doing. So you mentioned the serverless seg, and CNCF. So some of the work that they're doing is called cloud events. But they wanted to standardize the way we take these events from the various providers, we're not going to make them all work the same way, but what we can do is capture those events in a standard way, and then help define a way to transport those between different providers if you will, and then how those responses come back. So at least we can start to standardize at least that part of the layer, and if Google offers you value, or Amazon offers you value, you own the data, and that data generates events, you can actually move it wherever you want, so that's the other piece, and I'm glad that they're getting in front of it. >> Well I think goal is, obviously, if I'm using AWS, and then I want to use Asher, and then I want to go to Google Cloud, or I want my development teams are using different components, and features, in all of them, right? You want to be able to have that portability across the cloud-- >> And we say together, so the key part of that demo was, if you're using one cloud provider for a certain service, in this case, I was using Google Translate to translate some data, but maybe your data lives in Amazon, the whole point was that, be notified that your data's in Amazon, so that it can be fired off an event into Google, function runs a translation, and writes the data back to Amazon. There are customers that actually do this today, right? There are different pieces of stacks that they want to be able to access, our goal is to make sure they can actually do that in a standard way, and then, show them how to do it. >> A lot of big buzz too also going on around Kubeflow, that Google co-chaired, or co-founded, and now part of the CNCF, Istio service meshes, again, this points to the dots that are connecting, which is okay, I got Kubernetes, we got containers, now Istio, what's your vision on that, how did that play out? An opportunity certainly to abstract the weights of complexity, what's your thoughts on Istio? >> So I think there's going to be certain things, things like Istio, there are parts of Istio that are very low level, that if done right, you may never see them. That's a good thing, so Istio comes in, and says, "Look, it's one thing to connect applications together, "which Kubernetes can help you do "with this built-in service discovery, "how does one app find the other app," but then it's another thing to lock down security and implement policy, this app can talk to this app under these conditions. Istio comes in, brings that to the playing field. Great, that's a great addition. Most people will probably wrap that in some higher-level platform, and you may never see it! Great! Then you mention Kubeflow, now this is a workflow, or at least an opinionated workflow, for doing machine-learning, or some analytics work. There's too many pieces! So if we start naming every single piece that you have to do, or we can say, "Look, we know there's a way that works, "we'll give it a name, we'll call it Kubeflow," and then what's going to happen there is the community's going to rally around actually more workflow, we have lots of great technology wrapped underneath all of that, but how should people use it? And I think that's what I'm actually happy to see now that we're in like year four or five of this thing, as people are actually talking about how to people leverage all of these things that fall below? >> As the IQ starts to increase with cloud-native, you're seeing enterprises, and there's levels of adoption, the early adopters, you know, the shiny new toy, are pushing the envelope, fast followers coming in, then you got the mainstream coming in, so mainstream, there's a lot of usage and consumption of containers, very comfortable with that, now they're bumping into Kubernetes, "Oh wow, this is great," different positions of the adoption. What's your message to each one, mainstream, fast followers, early adoptives, the early adoptives keep pushing, keep bringing that community together, form the community, fast forward. What's the position, what's the Kelsey Hightower view of each one of those points of the evolution? >> So I think we need a new model. So I think that model is kind of out now. Because if you look at the vendor relationships now, so the enterprise typically buys off the shelf when it's mature and ready to go. But at this point now, a lot of the library is all in the programming languages, if you see a language or library that you need, if it's on GitHub, you look around, it's like, "We're going to use this open-source library, "'cause we got to ship," right? So, they started doing early adoption maybe at the library level. Now you're starting to see it at the service level. So if I go to my partner or my vendor, and they say, "Hey, the new version of our software requires Kubernetes." Now, that's a little bit early for some of these enterprises to adopt, but now you're having the vendor relationship saying, "We will help you with Kubernetes." And also, a lot of these enterprises, it's early? Guess what, they have contributors to these projects. They helped design them. I remember back in the day, when I was in financial services, JPMC came out with their own messaging standard, so banks could communicate with each other. They gave that to Red Hat, and Red Hat turns it into a product, and now there's a new messaging standard. That kicked off ten years ago, and now we're starting to see these same enterprises contribute to Kubernetes. So I think now, there's a new model where, if it's early, enterprises are becoming the contributors, donating to the foundations, becoming members of things like CNCF, and on the flip side, they may still use their product, but they want a say in their future. >> So you can jump in at any level as a company, you don't need to wait for the mainstream, you can have a contributor, and in the front wave, to help shepherd through. >> Yeah, you need more say, I think when people bought typical enterprise software, if there wasn't a feature in there, you waited for the vendor to do it, the vendor comes up with their feature, and tells you it's going to cost another 200 million dollars for this add-on, and you have no say into the progress of it, or the speed of it. And then we moved to a world where there was APIs. Look, here's APIs, you can kind of build your own thing on top, now, the vendor's like, "You know what? "I'm going to help actually build the product that I rely on," so if vendor A is not my best partner right now, I could pick a different vendor and say, "Hey, I want a relationship, around this open-source "ecosystem, you have some features I like right now, "but I may want to able to modify them later." I think that's where we are right now. >> Well I think also the emergence of open-source offices, and things like that, and, you know, enterprises that are more monolithic, have really helped to move things forward with their users and their developers. I'm seeing a lot of folks here that are actually coming from larger companies inside of Europe, and they're actually trying to learn Kubernetes now, and they are here to bring that back into their companies, that they want to know about what's going on, right? >> That's a good observation-- >> It's great. >> That open-source office is replacing the I'm the vendor management person. >> Well you need legal-- >> Exactly. >> And you need all of those folks to just get the checkmarks, and get the approval, so that folks can actually take code in, and if it's under the right license, which is super important, or put code back out. >> And it seemed to be some of the same people that were managing the IBM relationship. The people that were managing the big vendor relationship, right? This thing's going to cost us all this cash, we got to make sure that we're getting the right, we're complying with the licensing model, that we're not using more than we paid for, in case we get an audit, the same group has some of the similar skills needed to shepherd their way through the open-source landscape, and then, in many cases, hiring in some of those core developers, to sit right in the organization, to give back, and to kind of have that first-tier support. >> That's a really good point, Lauren. I think this is why I think CNCF has been so successful is, they've kind of established the guardrails, and kind of the cultural notion of commercializing, while not foregoing the principles of open-source, so the operationalizing of open-source is really huge-- >> I'm kind of laughing over here, because, I started the open-source organization at Cisco, and Cisco was not, was new to open-source, and we had to put open data into the Linux Foundation, and I just remember the months of calls I was on, and the lawyers that I got to know, and-- >> You got scar tissue to prove it, too. >> I do, and I think when we did CNCF, I was talking to Craig years ago when we kind of kicked that off, it was really something that we wanted to do differently, we wanted to fast track it, we had the exact license that we wanted, we had the players that we wanted, and we really wanted to have this be something community-based, which I think, Kelsey, you've said it right there. It's really the communities that are coming together that you're seeing here. What else are you seeing here? What are the interesting projects that you see, that are kind of popping up, we have some, but are there others that you see? >> Well, so now, these same enterprises, now they have the talent, or at least not letting the talent leave, the talent now is like, "Well, we have an idea, and it's not core "to our business, let's open-source it." So, Intuit just inquired this workflow, small little start-up project, Argo, they're Intuit now, and maybe they had a need internally, suck in the right people, let the project continue, throw that Intuit logo there, and then sometimes you just see tools that are just being built internally, also be product ties from this open-source perspective, and it's a good way for these companies to stay engaged, and also to say, "Hey, if we're having this problem, "so are other people," so this is new, right? This open-source usually comes from the vendors, maybe a small group of developers, but now you're starting to see the companies say, "You know what, let's open-source our tool as well," and it's really interesting, because also they're pretty mature. They've been banked, they've been used, they're real, someone depends on them, and they're out. Interesting to see where that goes. >> Well yeah, Derek Hondell, from VMware, former Linux early guy, brought the same question. He says, "Don't confuse project with product." And to your point about being involved in the project, you can still productize, and then still have that dual relationship in a positive way, that's really a key point. >> Exactly, we're all learning how to share, and we're learning what to share. >> Okay, well let's do some self awareness here, well, for you, program's great, give you some props on that, you did a great job, you guys are the team, lot of high marks, question marks that are here that we've heard is security. Obviously, love Kubernetes, everyone's high-fiving each other, got to get back to work to reality, security is a conversation. Your thoughts on how that's evolving, obviously, this is front and center conversation, with all this service meshes and all these new services coming up, security is now being fought in the front end of this. What's your view? >> So I think the problem with security from certain people is that they believe that a product will come out that they can buy, to do security. Every time some new platform, oh, virtualization security. Java security. Any buzzword, then someone tries to attach security. >> It's a bolt-on. >> It's, yeah. So, I mean, most people think it's a practice. The last stuff that I seen on security space still applies to the new stack, it's not that the practice changed. Some of the threat models are the same, maybe some new threat models come up, or new threat models are aggravated because of the way people are using these platforms. But I think a lot of companies have never understood that. It's a practice, it will never be solved, there's nothing you can buy or subscribe to-- >> Not a silver bullet. >> Like antivirus, right? I'm only going to buy antivirus, as long as I run it, I should never get a virus. It's like, "No!" That's not how that works. The antivirus will be able to find things it knows about. And then you have to have good behavior to prevent having a problem in the first place. And I think security should be the same way, so I think what people need to do now, is they're being forced back into the practice of security. >> John: Security everywhere, basically. >> It's just a thing you have to do no matter what, and I think what people have to start doing with this conversation is saying, "If I adopt Kubernetes, does my threat model change?" "Does the container change the way I've locked down the VM?" In some cases, no, in some cases, yes. So I think when we start to have these conversations, everyone needs to understand the question you should ask of everyone, "What threat model should I be worried about, "and if it's something that I don't understand or know," that's when you might want to go look for a vendor, or go get some more training to figure out how you can solve it. >> And I think, Tyler Jewell was on from Ballerina, and he was talking about that yesterday, in terms of how they actually won't, they assume that the code is not secure. That is the first thing that they do when they're looking at Ballerina in their programming language, and how they actually accept code into it, is just they assume it's not secure. >> Oh exactly, like at Google we had a thing, we called it BeyondCorp. And there's other aspects to that, if you assume that it's going to be bad if someone was inside of your network, then pretend that someone is already inside your network and act accordingly. >> Yep, exactly, it's almost the reverse of the whitelisting. Alright, so let me ask you a question, you're in a unique position, glad to have you here on theCUBE, thanks for coming on and sharing your insights and perspective, but you also are the co-chair of this progress, so you get to see the landscape, you see the 20 mile stare, you have to have that long view, you also work at Google, which gives a perspective of things like BeyondCorp, and all of the large-scale work at Google, a lot of people want to, they're buying into the cloud-native, no doubt about it, there's still some educational work on the peoples' side, and process, and operationalizing it, with open-source, et cetera, but they want to know where the headroom is, they want to know, as you said, where's the directionally correct vector of the industry. So I got to ask you, in your perspective, where's all this going? For the folks watching who just want to have a navigation, paint the picture, what's coming directionally, shoot the arrow forward, as service meshes, as you start having this service layer, highly valuable, creative freedom to do things, what's the Kelsey vision on-- >> So I think this world of computing, after the mainframe, the mainframe, you want to process census data, you walk up, give it, it spits it back out. To me, that is beautiful. That's like almost the ultimate developer workflow. In, out. Then everyone's like, "I want my own computer, "and I want my own programming language, "and I want to write it in my basement, "without the proper power, or cords, or everything, "and we're all going to learn how "to do computing from scratch." And we all learnt, and we have what we call a legacy. All the mistakes I've made, but I maintain, and that's what we have! But the ultimate goal of computing is like the calculator, I want to be able to have a very simple interface, and the computer should give me an answer back. So where all this is going, Istio, service mesh, Kubernetes, cloud-native, all these patterns. Here's my app, run it for me. Don't ask me about auto scale groups, and all, run it for me. Give me a security certificate by default. Let's encrypt. Makes it super easy for anyone to get a tailored certificate rotated to all the right things. So we're slowly getting to a world where you can ask the question, "Here's my app, run it for me," and they say, "Here's the URL, "and when you hit this URL, we're going to do "everything that we've learned in the past "to make it secure, scalable, work for you." So that may be called open-shift, in its current implementation with Red Hat, Amazon may call it Lambda, Google Cloud may call it GKE plus some services, and we're never going to stop until the experience becomes, "Here's my app, run it for me." >> A resource pool, just programmability. And it's good, I think the enterprises are used to lifting and shifting, I mean, we've been through the evolution of IT, as we build the legacy, okay, consolidation, server consolidation, oh, hello VMs, now you have lift and shift. This is not a lift and shift kind of concept, cloud-native. It is a-- >> It doesn't have to be a lift and shift. So some people are trying to make it a lift and shift thing, where they say, "Look, you can bolt-on some of the stuff "that you're seeing in the new," and some consultants are like, "Hey, we'll sit their and roll up the sleeves, "and give you what we can," and I think that's an independent thing from where we're pushing towards. If you're ready, there's going to be a world, where you give us your code, and we run it, and it's scary for a lot of people, because they're going to be like, "Well, what do I do?" "What knobs do I twist in that world?" So I think that's just, that's where it's going. >> Well, in a world of millions of services coming out on the line, it's in operating, automation's got to be key, these are principles that have to go get bought into. I mean, you got to understand, administration is the exception, not the rule. This is the new world. It's kind of the Google world, and large-scale world, so it could be scary for some. I mean, you just bump into people all the time, "Hey Kelsey, what do I do?" And what do you say to them? You say, "Hey, what do I do?" What's the playbook? >> Often, so, it's early enough. I wasn't born in the mainframe time. So I'm born in this time. And right now when you look at this, it's like, well, this is your actual opportunity to contribute to what it should do. So if you want to sit on the sidelines, 'cause we're in that period now, where that isn't the case. And everyone right now is trying to figure out how to make it the case, so they're going to come up with their ways of doing things, and their standards, and then maybe in about ten years, you'll be asked to just use what we've all produced. Or, since you're actually around early enough, you can participate. That's what I tell people, so if you don't want to participate, then you get the checkpoints along the way. Here's what we offer, here's what they offer, you pick one, and then you stay on this digital transformation to the end of time. Or, you jump in, and realize that you're going to have a little bit more control over the way you operate in this landscape. >> Well, jumping in the deep end of the pool has always been the philosophy, get in and learn, and you'll survive, with a lot of community support, Kelsey, thanks for coming on, final question for you, surprise is, you're no longer going to be the co-chair, you've co-chaired up to this point, you've done a great job, what surprised you about KubeCon, the growth, the people? What are some of the things that have jumped out at you, either good, surprise, what you did expect, not expect, share some commentary on this movement, KubeCon and CloudNative. >> Definitely surprised that it's probably this big this fast, right? I thought people, definitely when I saw the technology earlier on, I was like, "This is definitely a winner," "regardless of who agrees." So, I knew that early on. But to be this big, this fast, and all the cloud providers agreeing to use it and sell it, that is a surprise, I figured one or two would do it. But to have all of them, if you go to their website, and you read the words Kubernetes' strong competitors, well alright, we all agree that Kubernetes is okay. That to me is a surprise that they're here, they have booths, they're celebrating it, they're all innovating on it, and honestly, this is one of those situations that, no matter how fast they move, everyone ends up winning on this particular deal, just the way Kubernetes was set up, and the foundation as a whole, that to me is surprising that it's still true, four years later. >> Yeah, I mean rising tide floats all boats, when you have an enabling, disruptive technology like Kubernetes, that enables people to be successful, there's enough cake to be eating for everybody. >> Awesome. >> Kelsey Hightower, big time influencer here, inside theCUBE cloud, computing influencer, also works at Google as a developer advocate, also co-chair of KubeCon 2018, I wish you luck in the next chapter, stepping down from the co-chair role-- >> Stepping down from the co-chair, but always in the community. >> Always in the community. Great voice, great guy to have on theCUBE, check him out online, his great Twitter feed, check him out on Twitter, Kelsey Hightower, here on theCUBE, I'm joined here by Lauren Cooney, be right back with more coverage here at KubeCon 2018, stay with us, we'll be right back. (bright electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's the CUBE, covering KubeCon and Cloud Native Con Europe 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. (busy music) >> Welcome back, everyone, live here in Copenhagen, Denmark, it's the CUBE's coverage of KubeCon 2018. I'm John Furrier, the host of the CUBE, along with Lauren Cooney, who's the founder of Spark Labs. She's been co-host with me two days, two days of wall to wall coverage. Stephan Fabel, Product Strategy Lead at Canonical, is here inside the CUBE, and from San Francisco. Again, welcome to the CUBE, thanks for coming. >> Thank you, thanks so much for having me. >> I've got to, you guys have been around the block, you know about open source software platforms, you get and do it for a while. Interesting time here at KubeCon. Kubernetes, Istio, Kubeflow, Cloud Native, they've still got the brand name CloudNativeCon and KubeCon. Modern application architecture's now in play. I see this notion of an interoperability model coming in that's certainly going to be a de facto standard. People are already kind of declaring it a de facto standard. It really shows a path to multi-cloud, but also frees up developers from a lot of the heavy lifting. Lou Tucker from Cisco was saying they don't want to do networking. Let's just have that be infrastructure as code, that's DevOps, that's what we want. >> Stephan: That is exactly right. >> What are you guys doing here? What's the story with Canonical and how does that fit into the megatrends? >> Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of things that we at Canonical always believe to be one of the core sort of tenets in our distribution of Kubernetes. As you know, we've been very active in this space fairly early on, and have been an active distributor of Kubernetes and a certified distributor of our version of Kubernetes. Pure upstream, remain conformant to the main public clouds, such as to enable that workload migration and mobility from on prem up to any of the other providers to accommodate all kinds of use cases, right. >> You guys made a bet on Kubernetes, obviously, good call. >> Stephan: Right. >> Right. What's the progress now, what's next? Because that's, the bets are paying off. I saw Red Hat had a great bet with what they did with Kubernetes, changed what OpenShift became. You guys had a bet in Kubernetes, what has that become for Canonical? >> Yeah, so based on the pure upstream distribution that we have, we really feel that enabling the ecosystem in a standards compliant way so that all of the landscape projects that are part of the CNCF can be deployed on top of Kubernetes, on top of our distribution of Kubernetes in just the same way that they would be developed or deployed in any of the large containers of service offerings that are out there is one of the big benefits that our customers would gain from using our Kubernetes. >> What's your differentiator for the distribution of Kubernetes that you have versus others? >> Well, there's two. The first one, I think, is the notion that deploying Kubernetes on premise is something that you want to do in a repeatable fashion, operationally efficient with the right capex opex mix, so we believe that there is a place for Kubernetes as a product, just deploy it, it works on any substrate that you've got available to you. But then also, for mainstream America, right, you may want to have a managed service on top of Kubernetes as well. We offer that, too, just a way to get started and kick the tires and see where that takes you as far as the developers are concerned. Now, on prem, you will find that there are a couple of challenges when deploying Kubernetes that are really the key differentiator. The first one, I would say, is things like integration into the storage that's local, integration into the network that's local, and integration into all of those services that should be available in the Cloud Native microservices architecture platform, such as low bouncers, right, elasticity, object store, etc. The second, and most importantly, because it is a key enabler for those next generation workloads, is the GPGPU enablement work that we're doing with partners such as NVIDIA. When you deploy the Canonical distribution of Kubernetes, you actually get the NVIDIA acceleration out of the box the way that NVIDIA envisions this on top of Kubernetes and the way that it is, by the way, being deployed on the public clouds. >> You bring a lot of your goodness to the table inside the Kubernetes distribution. OK, what are some customers doing? Give some use cases of some customers' Kubernetes, what are some of the things that they're doing with it, what's the early indication? What's the feedback? >> Sure. We have a ton of customers that are using our version of Kubernetes to do the machine learning applications and the AI of the next gen workloads in use cases such as smart cities or connected cars, where, when you look at self-driving cars, right, as the next gen that's coming out of the valley, they put in 300,000, 150,000, 400,000 miles a year on the road these days just optimizing the models that are being used to actually take over one day. Enabling those kinds of workloads in a distributed fashion requires DevOps expertise. Now, the people who are actually writing those applications are not DevOps people, they're data scientists, right. They shouldn't have to learn how to deploy Kubernetes, how to create a container and all those things. They should just be able to deploy the application on top an attractive substrate that actually supports that distributed application use case, and so that is where we come in. >> This is interesting, because what you're basically doing is making an application developer a DevOps developer overnight. >> Stephan: That's exactly right. >> That's really important. I was just talking with the co-chair of CNCF. We're talking about, Liz Rice and I were talking about why everyone's so, like, excited here. One of the things I said was, because people who are doing DevOps were hardcore, and they had to build everything from scratch, and all the scar tissue. But the benefits, once you got through the knothole there, the benefits were amazing, right. You go, okay, you don't want to do that again, but now there's a way to make it easier. There's kind of a shared experience even though no one's met each other, so there's kind of a joint community. >> I agree. I think it is increasingly about enabling developers who are experts in their field to actually leverage Kubernetes and the advantages that it brings in a more intuitive fashion. Just take it up a notch. >> How did the Kubernetes vibe integrate in with Canonical? I'm sure, given the background of the company, it probably was a nice fit, people embraced it. You guys were early. >> Stephan: Yeah. >> What's the internal scuttlebutt on the vibe with Kubernetes? >> Oh, we love Kubernetes as a technology. Ubuntu was always close to the developer and close to where the innovation happens. It was a natural fit to actually support all that workflow now in this new world of Kubernetes. We embraced OpenStack for the same reason, and in a similar fashion, Kubernetes has really driven the point home, containerist applications with a powerful orchestration framework such as Kubernetes are the next step for all the developers that are out there, and so as a consequence, this was a perfect match. >> It's also a no-brainer if you think about it, software methodology moving to the next level. This is total step up function for productivity for developers. That's really a key thing. What's your observation of that trend? Because at the end of the day, there's now Kubernetes, which does a lot of great things, but one of the hottest areas is Istio service meshes, and then you've got Kubeflow orchestration, a lot of other things that are happening around Kubernetes. What are you guys seeing that's important for Canonical's customers, what you're doing product wise. Where's the order of operations, what's next? What are you guys focused on, what's the priorities? >> Well, our biggest priority right now is enabling things like Kubeflow, which, by the way, are also using Istio internally, right, to actually enable those data scientists who actually deploy their I workload. We work very closely with Google to try and enable this in an on prem fashion out of the box which is something you can actually do today. >> John: You guys are doing this now inside this. >> We're doing this right now. This is also where we're going to double and triple down. >> This is actually your best practice, too, if you think about it, you want to take it in house, and then get a feel for it. What's the internal vibe on that, positive? >> Oh, absolutely. I mean, we always saw infrastructure as code and actually as intelligent infrastructure as something that we wanted to build our conceptual framework around, so very concretely, right. We've always had this notion of composable building blocks adding up to, sum of one being greater than two, right, like those types of scenarios. Actually using things like Kubernetes as an effective building block to then build out web applications that use things like machine learning algorithms underneath, that's a perfect use case for a next gen workload, and also something that we might use ourselves internally. >> Well, hey, that whole building block thing, it's happening. >> Stephan: Yeah. >> News flash. >> Stephan: Exactly, right? >> I mean, it's almost a pinch me moment for the people in the industry like, oh my god, it's going to go to a whole other level. How do you guys envision that next level going? Beyond the building blocks, is it, I mean, what's the vision that you guys have? Obviously, infrastructure as code programmability, but now, you're talking about infrastructure as code was great, but now you've got microservices growth coming on top of it, it's a services market now. >> It is, it is. I think that the biggest challenge will be the distribution of the workloads, right. You have edge compute coming along in the telco space, you have, like I said, smart cities, right, the sensors will be everywhere, and they will feed data back, and how do you manage that at scale, right? How do you manage that across various different hardware perspectives? We have hardware platforms such as ARM 64 picking up, right, and actually playing a very significant role at the edge, and increasingly, even in the core. We've always believed that providing that software and the distribution of IS such as Kubernetes and others on top of those additional architectures would make a huge difference, and that is clearly paying off. What we see is, the increased need of managing hybrid workloads across multi-cloud scenarios that could be composed of different architectures, not just x86, the future is not homogeneous at all. It'll be all over the place. All those use cases and all those particular situation require that building block principle, like all the way from the OS up to the application. >> John: That's a great use case for containers. Kubernetes, Istio, Kubeflow. >> Absolutely. >> All stacking in line beautifully from an evolution standpoint. I've got to ask you a personal question. I mean, I was at Canonical, great company, I want to thank Canonical for being a sponsor of the CUBE over the years. We've had Mark Shuttleworth on the CUBE had an OpenStack going way back when. You guys are a great participant in the community as a company and the people there been phenomenal. You're new. >> I'm new. >> What attracted you to Canonical? What was the motivating force? What drew you in? You're now running Products, a big job. You've got a lot in front of you. Obviously, it's a great market, so you're a great company. Just share, just color and why Canonical, what attracted you there? >> I've always been a user of Ubuntu, I've been a user since the first hour. I've used Ubuntu in my research. I did robotics based on Ubuntu way before it was cool. I built all kinds of things on top of Ubuntu throughout my entire career. Working for Canonical, which is a company that always exhibited great vision into the future and great predictions into trends that would prove to become true was just, for me, something that was very attractive. >> Their leadership has a good eye on the prize. They had good 20 mile stare, as we say, they can see the roadmap ahead and then make either course corrections or tweaks. >> Yeah. >> Great, awesome. Well, I mean, what's new there? What's your, take a minute to explain what's new at Canonical, role here at KubeCon, what are some of the conversations you're having? >> Yeah, so I mean, for us at KubeCon, it's always been an important part of our outreach to the community, great opportunity for us to have great conversations with our partners in the field. I think it is really about enabling the ecosystem in a more straightforward way. There's no better place to have those types of conversations than here, where everybody comes together and really establishes those relationships. For us, it is about, again, enabling the developer and really staying close to that innovation and supporting that in an optimal way. Yes, I mean, that, to us, is the role that we play. You've got a lot of end users here who are building stuff. >> Oh, absolutely, yeah. They, I mean, I had a talk today about Kubeflow with Google, and after the talk, lots of folks came up to me and said, hey, how can I use this at home, right? >> Sometimes with, whether it's timing, technology, all the above, Kubernetes really hit it strong with the timing, industry was ready for it. Containers had a nice gestation period. People know about containers. >> Stephan: Absolutely. >> Engineers know containers, know about those kinds of concepts. Now we're at a whole other operating environment. >> Stephan: Absolutely. >> You guys are at the forefront. Thanks for coming on the CUBE. >> Oh, thank you, I appreciate it. >> Stephan sharing the perspective, Stephan Fabel. Running Product and Strategy for Canonical, building stuff, this is what's going on in Kubernetes in KubeCon, end users are actually building and orchestrating workloads. Multi-cloud is what people are talking about and the tech to make it happen is here. I'm John Furrier with the CUBE. Stay with us for more live coverage here at KubeCon 2018, part of the CNCF CUBE coverage. We'll be right back after this short break. (busy music)

>> Male Narrator: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark. It's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018, brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello everyone, welcome back, this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage of KubeCon 2018. Part of the CNCF Cloud Native Computing Foundation, part of the Linux Foundation, this is theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with co-host, with Lauren Cooney, founder of Spark Labs, helping me out as analyst this week, great to have our next guest, shared acquaintance, Abby Kearns, Executive Director of Cloud Foundry Foundation, Cube alumni, welcome back! >> Thanks for having me back again. >> Got your voice, you're losing your voice from all the talking you're doing here on Cloud Foundry. >> Cloud cloud cloud all the time. >> So we were talking yesterday, I want to get you on because you guys have done some research. >> Yeah. >> On cloud, and we were chatting about, I should give you a plug on the opening segment yesterday about some of the things you're finding about Kubernetes. Certainly in our bubble, it's so passe now, we're moving on to STO and CUBE Flow, but you have research that, you know, is mainstream tech, outside of the bubble we live in, is actually now evolving into the first inning of Kubernetes, if you will. What does the research say, what's that all about? >> Well, the research says, trying not to apologize already, my voice is all over the place, so we've been tracking containers for now almost three years and I remember three years ago, everyone's like, "Okay, well we've talked about Docker for years now, "it's so passe," but when you got beyond the bubbles where tech is, people were just like starting to think about it. And so containers are just now getting to where people are either using them or using them as proof of concept. But Kubernetes has become a really big part of the conversation the last year, and it's continuing to take it by storm, and so we're starting to see organizations that are interested in it, but in terms of adoption and awareness beyond just the core central, there's still a massive education gap there. And a really big opportunity to educate people, not only on these tools, but what they really want to know is how do these tools help them get through their day and accomplish their work? >> So essentially, there's a lag of sequence of early adopters, fast followers, and now mainstream. Mainstream are getting accustomed to containers, now hitting up on Kubernetes, we're still pushing the front line. >> Well I think, you know, we are, and I think this is one of my observations as well, Abby, is that we look at these technologies, right? And I'm in the hallways, and I'm talking to folks in the cab line and things along those lines, and they're just here to actually learn about the technology, about Kubernetes, they actually don't understand it fully yet, and they're trying to figure out really what to do with it, and their companies have sent them here. And then it's, you know, you talk to the folks that are, you know, kind of were here for the long haul and were there at the beginning of CNCF and things along those lines, and they're like, "Oh yeah, everyone's adopted it," right? So you've got these two spectrums and I think my question to you is, what do you think is needed for this to really cross the chasm? >> Well, I'll actually answer that with another piece of data We do global research, and one of the things we found, we ask about, "What are your priorities for the next "couple of years?" and resoundingly across every persona, so developers, operators, IT decision makers, executives, their top three priorities for the next two years is continuous delivery. So let's think about that: continuous delivery for me is a priority; building that culture change is a priority; and so the tech is there to supplement that. But the real work, the hard work, is a priority, and I think that's exactly where it should be. So as these organizations really implement that continuous delivery methodology, they're going to pull these technologies in to supplement that. >> So it's not a technology problem, it's a people problem. But your point is, to the industry, let's be realistic and understand the segments that are adopting at what pace, matching education or evangelism or transformation at the right piece of the journey. >> Yeah, I mean all this tech, even Cloud Foundry, is a supplemental tool. >> Yeah. >> The hard work is really continuous delivery, building in that culture change, making software a core part of your business, making technology part of your day-to-day conversation, and that heavy lift has to come in order for any of these technologies to be successful. >> You guys have done a great job, I just want to say, Cloud Foundry, I want to give you some props. Congratulations on the work you've done. Take a minute to talk about some of the success. You're an ingredient in a lot of successful applications out there; what are some of the stats? How many people are using Cloud Foundry? What's some of the uptick, share some of the numbers of the performance with Cloud Foundry. >> Well, I mean we're in use of over half the Fortune 500 across every industry; what's been so phenomenal and so awesome about Cloud Foundry, and we really saw this at Summit, is all the industries that are using this to change. But what was interesting about our last summit, which we just had a couple of weeks ago, is all of these companies want to get on stage and not talk about the tech; they want to talk about the culture change. You know, hearing Boeing get on stage and say, "Actually, you know what the real work is "is the transformation we had to undergo "in order to do this work," and hear that over and over again, and it's so awesome to be part of that change because technology needs to be there to supplement that change and be part of that. But it's really great to see this come into fruition, like hearing the stories from Home Depot and Comcast and US Air Force and how it's fundamentally changing their businesses and helping them get out the door at scale, I mean that's really where the cool stuff happens. >> You've had great success there, and a lot of end users too, it's not like a bunch of one-offs. >> No. >> So how's the summit last week in Boston? >> It was amazing. We had half of our attendees at our summit are end users. And you know, the big high I get is like, hearing everyone talk about what they're doing and "This is what I did!" and stuff you've never heard of. Like, "Oh, I didn't realize you were using that," and "Oh, that's a really great way to use it "in very inventive ways," and so it really just refreshes you, like "Oh, this is what matters." The users and how they're using it and what they're going to do with the tech, I mean, isn't that why we're all here, right? And it's great, and they're creating such amazing technologies that it makes you energized about what's going on. >> Yeah, and I think it's amazing to me, cause I was actually at the Cloud Foundry summit as well, and there was one customer, I can't remember the name that got on stage, and they were using like, they had 2100 end users or something like that, developers, their company actually using Cloud Foundry, and I think that was the number, and I think it was really tremendous to see how many people inside of one company are actually using the technology across the board. It was really great. >> I mean, this is all about, I mean we're at a modern software era, and this is a whole new guard coming on board, and it's a whole new architecture. >> And it's a whole new way of thinking about it. Like, you know right now, we talk about how tech and there's a gap and we're pushing the tech and people are going to get there, but it's not going to be too long before the enterprises are pushing back and saying, "Hey, this is what I need, here's where I am, "I'm running at a scale you didn't think about yet." You know we're running, we have a lot of users that are running tens of thousands and thousands of applications: what about when they're in the hundreds of thousands of applications, and what does that look like? And they're saying, "Well I'm going to do this, "and here's what I need to do." >> There are going to be a lot of microservices. Abby, I got to ask you to end the segment. Thanks for coming on, I know you were rushed to come on, I appreciate you taking the time, you're super busy. What's your priorities for next year? Obviously you got a lot of successes under your belt. What's next, what are you going to check off the list this year? >> Well, inner operability is a big theme for me this year. And what does that mean, that means building bridges to other technologies and other projects, like the amazing work that's happening in CNCF and all those great technologies, so making sure that when those technologies mature, how do we bring those to the enterprise, and then really continuing to work on an ecosystem and work with our members and to really get more contributors around the table. >> Awesome, developers and contributors, dev plus contribute, thanks for coming on. >> My pleasure. >> Thanks Abby. >> You're contributing your insight and I know you've got the voice going, but appreciate you taking the time, so Kube conversations here at theCUBE here in Denmark for KubeCon 2018, part of CNCF. I'm John Furrier with Lauren Cooney, we'll be right back after this short break. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018 brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its Ecosystem Partners. >> Okay welcome back everyone, this is theCUBE's exclusive coverage here in Copenhagen, Denmark for KubeCon 2018 part of the CNCF, I'm John Furrier the co-host of theCUBE with Lauren Cooney co-host this week founder of Spark Labs. Our next guest is Cheryl Hung, Product Engineering Manager, StorageOS, she has a lot of DevOps, she runs the CloudNative or founder of the CloudNative meetup in London. >> Exactly. >> It's great to have you on. >> Thank you, it's great to be on. >> So, you've drank the koolaide on CloudNative, so we're loving the trend, the trend is your friend here. So CloudNative's super hot and you're doing StorageOS as the name of the company, which is a DevOps oriented that your obviously using Kubernetes. First question, how excited are you with the CloudNative trend right now, because people are getting it with Kubernetes, what's your reaction to the momentum? >> So before I joined my current company, I was an Engineer at Google for about five years and I'm probably a CloudNative in the true sense of the word and that I joined Google when I was 21, I don't remember a time before what we think of is containers and orchestrators and I use Borg, which was the internal predecessor to Kubernetes, so when I came out and I started looking into Docker and Kubernetes I thought, this is obvious, this is just how software is built and run, right? >> John: Yeah. >> It was so interesting to realize no, the industry's not there. >> What did you find? What was it like go out and say wait a minute, you do all that? What was it like? >> As I said I'd completely forgotten that this how software was done before, so when I came out, I was like this totally makes sense to me, this is very, very natural to me that you run software packaged in a container and then you orchestrate it across data centers and across machines with something like Kubernetes now. But seeing the whole industry move to this mindset has been really impressive, particularly for the CNCF they've put a lot of effort into spreading this paradigm and getting the adoption. >> John: They've done a good job. Before we dig in I want some DevOps questions I have for you because this is such an exciting topic. Take a minute to explain StorageOS, what the company does and your role there. >> StorageOS has been around for a couple of years, two, three years now and one of the biggest problems with containers is their designed to be stateless, they're designed so that you don't have to worry about running containers in different environments or moving them around, they should always run the same. So, but clearly there is a need for storage, if you're doing something interesting with your application, you have to make a decision about where to actually store the data at the end of the day. So, StorageOS, we do persistent storage for containers and it's an abstraction layer for storage that runs on top of any infrastructure could be on prem, could be one of the cloud providers, could be virtual machines and we provide storage to pods and to the applications and so the containers that are running and we also manage replication and high availability, among other things. My role that is officially Product Manager, I do a ton of different things, because we're a 15 person start-up. So I actually manage DevOps Engineers, I do public speaking, I write and speak about storage and containers and cloud, I write all the technical documentation for the product and very excitingly as of yesterday in fact, we announced our GA product, so now I can finally say we have a real genuine product that's out there and we think it's ready to go out publicly and live. >> That's great. >> Very, very exciting. >> So, you're not busy at all is what you basically are saying. >> I do a million things, but I have a great time. >> That's awesome. So what is with your one data release and the product is actually out the door, what kind of applications are you supporting, for example? What do you see as the kind of use cases of folks that are coming in and using, your solution? >> The biggest one that is not yet a solved problem is the database use case. So transactional database is like MySQL and Postgres and so on. The other use case that I see a lot is with CICD Pipelines, so people running Jenkins to build their software and they need to store the artifacts off the software somewhere and it's quite difficult to do that at the moment. So those I think are our two priorities. >> That's great. >> In DevOps world right now, one of the things that's super exciting is the whole infrastructorous code thing is happening, you mentioned that this is people are getting it. The challenge of staffing up is hard, you guys are wearing a lot of different hats as startups do, but as companies start to grow and do more CloudNative true CloudNative, you got to hire people and people got to learn. What are you finding is a good mechanism for learning? Obviously, you do a meet-up, that's a great face to face group opportunity, what are some of the things that people can do to get involved, how are you guys recruiting, how do you manage the team, is it small teams, whats the workflow look like? If you can share some insight into that, that'd be very helpful. >> Yeah so, I'm the hiring manager for DevOps Engineers and when I started looking for this I thought what would be great is if I could find someone who has some experience with running Kubernetes in production. Clearly that's very difficult because Kubernetes has only been around for really a year or two and widely adopted. Meet-ups are a brilliant way for people to get into this space, find out what the community is talking about and then also to learn and to teach others and I really encourage people to go and do public speaking themselves and become known in the community for it. Aside from that I think DevOps is a very worldly defined term, which is one of the difficulties with finding people. DevOps encompasses everything from people who are traditionally Linux's Admins to people who really do understand the container mindset and the orchestrated mindset. So I think for me, my best channel to find the right people has always been either face to face, people I know or else looking for things like Kubernetes or other orchestrators. >> So let me ask you how the Kubernetes, we've been given some good hat tips and props to the CNCF for doing a good job with Kubernetes, what is it about Kubernetes and the CNCF that's working in your mind? Why is it working so well? Obviously it's successful, its got the kind of defacto standard because a lot of people love it, what are they doing right and what is the work areas that you see are opportunities for people to innovate? >> So the CNCF has a couple of different branches, one thing that I think they did really well at the beginning was they decided that the technical direction and the vision of the projects would be set amongst the community rather than being controlled by one of Google or Microsoft or Red Hat or one of the big, big names in this. So separating the governing board from the technical oversight committee is something I think they did really right at the beginning and also encouraging the meet-ups and the face to face and the community growth. So in terms of innovation in this sphere, there's a lot of unsolved problems, we have a absolute massive tools out there and we don't have best practices and a lot of experience in how it's done. I work for StorageOS, because storage is one of those unsolved problems for containers, security is another one, Servilous is really coming and there's a lot of opportunity now to get involved in those conversations and steer towards where you want your own community and your own people to be. >> That, that is great and your doing, I've been in Open-source for quite awhile and the strategy is spot on. So, what do you see in terms of inside of the CNCF, projects that you're excited about or things that you want to get engaged with further or just in general, what's really cool? >> On a personal, technical level I think Servilous is very, very exciting, I still think of myself as an Engineer in many ways so I think the developer experience with that is great. One thing that I've seen new a KubeCon is there's a lot of focus now on getting the new first-time contributors, the mentors expanding the community looking beyond just can you submit code to how do we onboard and bring in more people so we have a more diverse set of opinions and feelings that can come in. >> Training, setting people up, open arms. >> Yeah, yeah, these things don't happen by themselves, they do take effort and I'm really glad that Open-source is really, really flown itself full heartedly into those kind of efforts. >> Cheryl great to have you on theCUBE, appreciate your commentary, my final question for you is for the folks watching who couldn't come today, this week, what's going on here? Share the vibe, share the story, what's this top story, what's the most important thing happening this week that people should know about? >> If I see one trend in people that I talk to, it's Kubernetes is getting is getting boring (laughing). What's the next big thing, service measures seem to be a hot topic, a lot of people are talking about them. But it's quite, I think it's great actually that Kubernetes is now becoming boring, people are standardizing on one thing so we're not duplicating a bunch of effort and there's a lot of buzz in the hallway about okay, we're fully bought into, bought into Kubernetes now we know this is success the CNCF has graduated Kubernetes. So now what are the difficult problems? Now it's about communicating between on the the networking side between federating between clusters across different regions. Those are all things that are not yet solved problems and that makes them quite an interesting challenge. >> You need boring to get to the exciting stuff, because in this case is good. >> Boring really is good. >> You're rallying around something solid to go attack other opportunities. >> I think it's just a trend of we have innovation at the very cutting edge beginning, people rally around and they become standers then they become commodities and people no longer find those exciting, but that allows us to work on even more exciting new things. >> Cheryl great stuff, congratulations on your meet-up and your success and your start-up shipping the products. This is theCUBE bringing you all the action here in Copenhagen, I'm John Furrier and Lauren Cooney here Cube coverage continues, stay with us for more after this short break. (upbeat music)