>>welcome back everyone to the cube con cloud, David Kahn coverage. I'm john for a host of the cube, we're here in person, 2020 20 a real event, it's a hybrid event, we're streaming live to you with all the great coverage and guests coming on next three days. Clayton Coleman's chief Hybrid cloud architect for Red Hat is joining me here to go over viewers talk but also talk about hybrid cloud. Multi cloud where it's all going road red hats doing great to see you thanks coming on. It's a pleasure to be >>back. It's a pleasure to be back in cuba con. >>Uh it's an honor to have you on as a chief architect at Red Hat on hybrid cloud. It is the hottest area in the market right now. The biggest story we were back in person. That's the biggest story here. The second biggest story, that's the most important story is hybrid cloud. And what does it mean for multi cloud, this is a key trend. You just gave a talk here. What's your take on it? You >>know, I, I like to summarize hybrid cloud as the answer to. It's really the summarization of yes please more of everything, which is, we don't have one of anything. Nobody has got any kind of real footprint is single cloud. They're not single framework, they're not single language, they're not single application server, they're not single container platform, they're not single VM technology. And so, um, and then, you know, looking around here in this, uh, partner space where eight years into kubernetes and there is an enormous ecosystem of tools, technologies, capabilities, add ons, plug ins components that make our applications better. Um the modern application landscape is so huge that I think that's what hybrid really is is it's we've got all these places to run stuff more than ever and we've got all this stuff to run more than ever and it doesn't slow down. So how do we bring sanity to that? How do we understand it? Bring it together and companies has been a big part of that, like it unlocked some of that. What's the next step? >>Yeah, that's a great, great commentary. I want to take into the kubernetes piece but you know, as we've been reporting the digital transformation at all time, high speed is the number one request. People want to go faster, not just speeds and feeds, but like ship code fast to build apps faster. Make it all run faster and secure. Okay, check, get that. Look what we were 15, 15 years ago, 10 years ago, five years ago, 2016. The first coupe con in Seattle we were there for small events kubernetes, we gotta sell it, figure it out. Right convince people >>that it's a it's worth >>it. Yeah. So what's your take on that? Well, I mean, it's mature, it's kind of de facto standard at this point. What's missing. Where is it? >>So I think Kubernetes has succeeded at the core mission which is helping us stop worrying about all the problems that we spent endless amounts of time arguing about, how do I deploy software, How do I roll it out? But in the meantime we've added more types of software. You know, the rise of ai ml um you know, the whole the whole ecosystem around training software models like what is a what is an Ai model? Is it look like an application, does it look like a job? It's part batch, part service. Um It's spread out to the edge. We've added mobile devices. The explosion in mobile computing over the last 10 years has co evolved. And so kubernetes succeeded at that kind of set a floor for what everybody thought was an application. And in the meantime we've added all these other parts of the application. >>It's funny, you know, David Anthony, we're talking about what's to minimum and networks at red hat will be on later. Back in the first two cubicles were like, you know, this is like a TCP I P moment, the Os I model that was a killer part of the stack. Now it was all standardized below TCP I. P. Company feels like a similar kind of construct where it's unifying, is creating some enablement, It's enabling some innovation and it kind of brought everyone together at the same time everyone realized that that's real, >>the whole >>cloud native is real. And now we're in an era now where people are talking about doing things that are completely different. You mentioned as a batch job house ai new software paradigm development paradigms, not to suffer during the lifecycle, but just like software development in general is impacted. >>Absolutely. And you know, the components like, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about how to test and build application, but those are things that we all kind of internalized now we we have seen the processes is critical because it's going to be in lots of places, people are looking to standardize. But sometimes the new technology comes up alongside the side, the thing we're trying to standardize, we're like, well let's just use the new technology instead function as a service is kind of uh it came up, you know, kubernetes group K Native. And then you see, you know, the proliferation of functions as a service choices, what do people use? So there's a lot of choice and we're all building on those common layers, but everybody kind of has their own opinions, everybody's doing something subtly different. >>Let me ask you your opinion on on more under the Hood kind of complexity challenge. There's general consensus in the industry that does a lot of complexity. Okay, you don't mean debate that, but that's in a way, a good thing in the sense if you solve that, that's where innovation comes in. So the goal is to solve complexity, abstract out of the heavy lifting under heavy living in Sandy Jackson. And I would say, or abstract away complexity make things easier to use >>Well and an open source and this ecosystem is an amazing um it's one of the most effective methods we've ever found for trying every possible solution and keeping the five or six most successful and that's a little bit like developers, developers flow downhill, developers are going to do, it's easy if it's easier to put a credit card in and go to the public cloud, you're gonna do it if you can take control away from the teams at your organization that are there to protect you, but maybe aren't as responsive as you like. People will, people will go around those. And so I think a little bit of what we're trying to do is what are the commonalities that we could pick out of this ecosystem that everybody agrees on and make those the downhill path that people follow, not putting a credit card into a cloud, but offering a way for you not to think about what clouds are on until you need to write, because you want to go to the fridge is a developer, you wanna go the fridge, pull out your favorite brand of soda, that favorite band Isoda might have an AWS label also >>talk about the open shift and the Kubernetes relationship, you guys push the boundaries. Um Den is being controlled playing and nodes, these are things that you talked about in your talk, talk about because you guys made some good bets on open shift, we've been covering that, how's that playing out now? It's a relationship now >>is interesting coming into kubernetes, we came in from the platform as a service angle, right, Platform as a service was the first iteration of trying to make the lowest cost path for developers to flow to business value um and so we added things on top of kubernetes, we knew that we were going to complex, so we built in a little bit um in our structure and our way of thinking about cube that it was never going to be just that basic bare bones package that you're gonna have to make choices for people that made sense. Ah obviously as the ecosystems grown, we've tried to grow with it, we've tried to be a layer above kubernetes, we've tried to be a layer in between kubernetes, we've tried to be a layer underneath kubernetes and all of these are valid places to be. Um I think that next step is we're all kind of asking, you know, we've got all this stuff, are there any ways that we can be more efficient? So I like to think about practical benefits, what is a practical benefit That a little bit of opinion nation could bring to this ecosystem and I think it's around applications, it's being application centric, it's what is a team, 90% of the time need to be successful, they need a way to get their code out, they need to get it to the places that they wanted to be, and that place is everywhere. It's not one cloud or on premises or a data center, it's the edge, it's running as a lambda. It's running inside devices that might be being designed in this very room today. >>It's interesting. You know, you're an architect, but also the computer science industry is the people who were trained in the area are learning. It's pretty fascinating and almost intoxicating right now in this this market because you have an operating system, dynamic systems kind of programming model with distributed cloud, edge on fire, that's only gonna get more complicated with 5G and high density data applications. Um and then you've got this changing modal mode of operations were programming with bots and Ai and machine learning to new things, but it's kind of the same distributed computing paradigm. Yeah. What's your reaction to that? >>Well, and it's it's interesting. I was kind of described like layers. We've gone from Lenox replaced proprietary UNIX or mainframe to virtualization, which, and then we had a lot of Lennox, we had some windows too. And then we moved to public cloud and private cloud. We brought config management and moved to kubernetes, um we still got that. Os at the heart of what we do. We've got, uh application libraries and we've shared services and common services. I think it's interesting like to learn from Lennox's lesson, which is we want to build an open expansive ecosystem, You're kind of like kind of like what's going on. We want to pick enough opinion nation that it just works because I think just works is what, let's be honest, like we could come up with all the great theories of what the right way computers should be done, but it's gonna be what's easy, what gets people help them get their jobs done, trying to time to take that from where people are today on cube in cloud, on multiple clouds, give them just a little bit more consolidation. And I think it's a trick people or convince people by showing them how much easier it could be. >>You know, what's interesting around um, what you guys have done a red hat is that you guys have real customers are demanding, you have enterprise customers. So you have your eye on the front edge of the, of the bleeding edge, making things easier. And I think that's good enough is a good angle, but let's, let's face it, people are just lifting and shifting to the cloud now. They haven't yet re factored and re factoring is a concept of taking what you're doing in the cloud of taking advantage of new services to change the operating dynamic and value proposition of say the application. So the smart money is all going there, seeing the funding come into applications that are leveraging the new platform? Re platform and then re factoring what's your take on that because you got the edge, you have other things happening. >>There are so many more types of applications today. And it's interesting because almost all of them start with real practical problems that enterprises or growing tech companies or companies that aren't tech companies but have a very strong tech component. Right? That's the biggest transformation the last 15 years is that you can be a tech company without ever calling yourself a tech company because you have a website and you have an upset and your entire business model flows like that. So there is, I think pragmatically people are, they're okay with their footprint where it is. They're looking to consolidate their very interested in taking advantage of the scale that modern cloud offers them and they're trying to figure out how to bring all the advantages that they have in these modern technologies to these new footprints and these new form factors that they're trying to fit into, whether that's an application running on the edge next to their load bouncer in a gateway, in telco five Gs happening right now. Red hat's been really heavily involved in a telco ecosystem and it's kubernetes through and through its building on those kinds of principles. What are the concepts that help make a hybrid application, an application that spans the data flowing from a device back to the cloud, out to a Gateway processed by a big data system in a private region, someplace where computers cheap can't >>be asylum? No, absolutely not has to be distributed non siloed based >>and how do we do that and keep security? How do we help you track where your data is and who's talking to whom? Um there's a lot of, there's a lot of people here today who are helping people connect. I think that next step that contact connectivity, the knowing who's talking and how they're connecting, that'll be a fundamental part of what emerges as >>that's why I think the observe ability to me is the data is really about a data funding a new data sector of the market that's going to be addressable. I think data address ability is critical. Clayton really appreciate you coming on. And giving a perspective an expert in the field. I gotta ask you, you know, I gotta say from a personal standpoint how open source has truly been a real enabler. You look at how fast new things could come in and be adopted and vetted and things get kicked around people try stuff that fails, but it's they they build on each other. Right? So a I for example, it's just a great example of look at what machine learning and AI is going on, how fast that's been adopted. Absolutely. I don't think that would be done in open source. I have to ask you guys at red hat as you continue your mission and with IBM with that partnership, how do you see people participating with you guys? You're here, you're part of the ecosystem, big player, how you guys continue to work with the community? Take a minute to share what you're working on. >>So uh first off, it's impossible to get anything done I think in this ecosystem without being open first. Um and that's something the red at and IBM are both committed to. A lot of what I try to do is I try to map from the very complex problems that people bring to us because every problem in applications is complex at some later and you've got to have the expertise but there's so much expertise. So you got to be able to blend the experts in a particular technology, the experts in a particular problem domain like the folks who consult or contract or helped design some of these architectures or have that experience at large companies and then move on to advise others and how to proceed. And then you have to be able to take those lessons put them in technology and the technology has to go back and take that feedback. I would say my primary goal is to come to these sorts of events and to share what everyone is facing because if we as a group aren't all working at some level, there won't be the ability of those organizations to react because none of us know the whole stack, none of us know the whole set of details >>And this text changing too. I mean you got to get a reference to a side while it's more than 80s metaphor. But you know, but that changed the game on proprietary and that was like >>getting it allows us to think and to separate. You know, you want to have nice thin layers that the world on top doesn't worry about below except when you need to and below program you can make things more efficient and public cloud, open source kubernetes and the proliferation of applications on top That's happening today. I >>mean Palmer gets used to talk about the hardened top when he was the VM ware Ceo Back in 2010. Remember him saying that he says she predicted >>the whole, we >>call it the mainframe in the cloud at the time because it was a funny thing to say, but it was really a computer. I mean essentially distributed nature of the cloud. It happened. Absolutely. Clayton, thanks for coming on the Cuban sharing your insights appreciate. It was a pleasure. Thank you. Right click here on the Cuban john furry. You're here live in L A for coupon cloud native in person. It's a hybrid event was streaming Also going to the cube platform as well. Check us out there all the interviews. Three days of coverage, we'll be right back Yeah. Mm mm mm I have

>>mhm Yes, everyone, welcome back to the cubes coverage of dr khan 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube. Got a great segment here. One of the big supporters and open source amazon web services returning back second year. Dr khan virtual Deepak Singh, vice president of the compute services at AWS Deepak, Great to see you. Thanks for coming back on remotely again soon. We'll be in real life. Reinvent is going to be in person, we'll be there. Good to see you. >>Good to see you too, john it's always good to do these. I don't know how how often I've been at the cube now, but it's great every single time your >>legend and getting on there, a lot of important things to discuss your in one of the most important areas in the technology industry right now and that is at the confluence of cloud scale and modern development applications as they shift towards as Andy Jassy says, the new guard, right. It's been happening. You guys have been a big proponent of open source and enabling open source is a service creating business models for companies. But more importantly, you guys are powering, making it easier for folks to use software. And doctor has been a big relationship for you. Could you take a minute to first talk about the doctor, a W S relationship and your involvement and what you're doing? >>Yeah, actually it goes back a long way. Uh you know, Justin, we announced PCS had reinvented 2014 and PCS at that time was very much managed orchestration service on top of DACA at that time. I think it was the first really big one out there from a cloud provider. And since then, of course, the world has evolved quite a bit and relationship with DR has evolved a lot. The thing I'd like to talk to is something that we announced that Dr last year, I don't remember if I talked about it on the cube at that time. But last year we started working with DR on how can we go from doctor Run, which customers love or DR desktop, which customers love and make it easy for people to run containers on pcs and Fergie. Uh so most new customers running containers and AWS today start with this Yes and party or half of them and we wanted to make it very easy for them to start with where they are on the laptop which is often bucket to stop and have running services the native US. So we started working with DR and that that collaboration has been very successful. We want to keep you look forward to continuing to work on evolving that where you can use Docker compose doctor, desktop, doctor run the fuel that darker customers used and the labour grand production services on the end of your side, which is the part that we've got that on. So I think that's one area where we work really well together. Uh, the other area where I think the two companies continue to work well together. It's open source in general as some of, you know, AWS has a very strong commitment to contain a. D uh, EKS our community service is moving towards community. Forget it actually runs all on community today and uh, we collaborate dr Rhonda on the Ocr specification because, you know, the Oc I am expect is becoming the de facto packaging format idea. W S. This morning we launched yesterday, we launched a service called Opera. And the main expected input for opera is an Ocr image are being in this Atlanta as well, where those ci images now a way of packaging for lambda. And I think the last one I like to call out and it has been an amazing partnership and it's an area where most people don't pay attention is amid signing. Uh, there's a project called Notary. We do the second version of the Notary Spec for remit signing and AWS Docker and a couple of other companies have been working very closely together on bringing that uh, you know, finalizing no tv too, so that at least in our case we can start building services for our customers on top of that. You know, it's it's a great relationship and I expect to see it continue. >>Well, I think one of the themes this year is developer experience. So good. Good call out there in the new announcements on the tools you have and software because that seems to be a great developer integration with Docker question I have for you is how should the customers think about things like E C. S and versus E K. S. App, Runner lambda uh for kind of running their containers. How do they understand the difference is, what's there? What's the, what's the thought process there? What's >>that? It's a good question actually been announced after. And I think there was one of the questions I started getting on twitter. You know, let's start at the very beginning. Anyone can pick up a Docker container and run it on easy to today. You can run it on easy to, we can run a light sail, but doc around works just fine. It's the limits machine. Then people want to do more complex things. They want to run large scale orchestrated services. They won't run their entire business and containers. We have customers will do that today. Uh, you know, you have people like Vanguard who runs a significant portion of the infrastructure on pcs frg or you have to elope with the heavy user of chaos, our community service. So in general, if you're running large scale systems, you're building your platforms, you're most likely to use the csny Chaos. Um, if you come from a community's background, you're, you're running communities on prem or you want the flexibility and control the communities gives you, you're gonna end up with the chaos. That's what we see our customers doing. If you just want to run containers, you want to use AWS to its fullest extent where you want the continue a P I to be part of the W A S A P. I said then you pick is yes. And I think one of the reasons you see so many customers start with the CSN, Forget is with forget to get the significant ease of use from an operational standpoint. And we see many start ups and you know, enterprises, especially security focus enterprises leaning towards farming. But there's a class of customers that doesn't want to think about orchestration that just wants. Here's my code, here's my container image just run my service for me and that's when things like happen, I can come and that's one of the reasons we launched it. Land is a little bit different. Lambda is a unique service. You buy into an event driven architecture. If you do that, then you can figure our application into this. That's they should start its magic. Uh, the container part, there is what land announced agreement where they now support containers, packaging. So instead of zip files, you can package up your functions as containers. Then lambda will run them for you. The advantage it gives you with all the tooling that you built, that you have to build your containers now works the land as well. So I won't call and a container orchestration service in the same sense of the CSC cso Afrin are but it definitely allows the container image format as a standard packaging format. I think that's the sort of universal common theme that you find across AWS at this point of time. >>You know, one of the things that we're observing at this at this event here is a lot of developers Coop con and Lennox foundations. A lot of operators to kubernetes hits that. But here's developers. And the thing is I want to ease of use, simplicity experience, but also I want the innovation. Yeah, I want all of it. When I ask you what is amazon bring to the table for the new equation, what would you say? >>Yeah, I mean for me it's always you've probably heard me say this 100 times. Many 1000 times. It's foggy fog. It's unique to us. It takes a lot of what we have learned about operating infrastructure scale. The question we asked ourselves, you know, in many ways we talk about forget even before belong pcs but we have to learn on what it meant and what customers really wanted. But the idea was when you are running clusters of instances of machines to run containers on, you have to start thinking about a lot of things that in some ways VMS but BMS in the car were taken away capacity. What kind of infrastructure to run it on? Should have been touched. Should have not been back. You know, where is my container running? Those are things. They suddenly started having to think about those kind of backwards almost. So the idea was how can we make your containerized bundles? So TCS task or community is part of the thing that you talk to and that is the main unit that you operate on. That is the unit that you get built on and meet it on. That's where Forget comes in and it allows us to do many interesting things. We've effectively changed the engine of forget since we've launched it. Uh, we run it on ec two instances and we run it on fire cracker. Uh, we have changed the forget agent architecture. We've made a lot of underneath the hood, uh, changes that even take the take advantage of the broader innovation, the rate of us, We did a whole bunch more to launch acronym trans on top of family customers don't have to think about it. They don't have to worry about it. It happens underneath the hood. It's always your engine as as you go along and it takes away all the operational pain of managing clusters of running into picking which instances to use to getting out, trying to figure out how to bend back and get efficiency. That becomes our problem. So, you know, that is an area where you should expect to see a Stuart done more. It's becoming the fabric of so many things that eight of us now. Uh, it's, you know, in some ways we're just talking a lot more to do. >>Yeah. And it's a really good time. A lot more wave of developers coming in. One of the things that we've been reporting on on Silicon England cube with our cute videos is more developers keep on coming on, more people coming in and contributing to the open source community. Even end users, not just the normal awesome hyper scholars you're talking about like classic, I call main street enterprises. So two things I want to ask you on the customer side because you have kind of to customers, you have the community that open source community and you have enterprise customers that want to make it easier. What are you seeing and hearing from customers? I know you guys work backwards from the customer. So I got to ask you work backwards from the community and work backwards from the enterprise customer. What's going on in their environment? What's the key trends that they're riding? What's the big challenges? What's the big opportunities that they're facing and saying for the community? >>Yeah, I start with the enterprise. That's almost an easier answer. Which is, you know, we're seeing increasingly enterprises moving into the cloud wholesale. Like in some ways you could argue that the pandemic has just accelerated it, but we have started seeing that before. Uh they want to move to the cloud and adult modern best practices. Uh If you see my talk agreement last few years, I've talked about modernization and all the aspects of modernization, and that's 90% of our conversation with enterprises, I've walked into a meeting supposedly to talk about containers, whatever half a conversation is spent on. How does an organization modernize? What does an organization need to do to modernize and containers and serverless play a pretty important part in it, because it gives them an opportunity to step away from the shackles of sort of fixed infrastructure and the methods and approaches that built in. But equally, we are talking about C I C. D, you know, fully automated deployments. What does it mean for developers to run their own services? What are the child, how do you monitor and uh, instrument uh, your services? How do you do observe ability in the modern world? So those are the challenges that enterprises are going towards, and you're spending a ton of time helping them there. But many of them are still running infrastructure on premises. So, you know, we have outpost for them. Uh, you know, just last week, you're talking to a bunch of our customers and they have lots of interesting ideas and things that they want to do without both, but many of them also have their own infrastructure and that's where something like UCS anywhere came from, which is hey, you like using Pcs in the cloud, You like having the safety i that just orchestrates containers for you. It does it on on his in an AWS region. It will do it in an outpost. It'll do it on wavelength, it'll do it on local zone. How about we allow you to do it on whatever infrastructure you bring to us. Uh you want to bring a raspberry pi, you can do that. You want to bring your on premises data center infrastructure, we can do that or a point of sale device, as long as you can get the agent running and you can connect to an AWS region, even though it's okay to lose connectivity every now and then. We can orchestrate a container for you over there and, you know, the same customer that likes the ease of use of Vcs. And the simplicity really resonated with that message really resonates with them. So I think where we are today with the enterprise is we've got some really good solutions for you in eight of us and we are now allowing you to take those a. P. I. S and then launch containers wherever you want to run them, whether it's the edge or whether it's your own data center. I think that's a big part of where the enterprise is going. But by and large, I think yes, a lot of them are still making that change from running infrastructure and applications the way they used to do a modern sort of, if you want to use the word cloud native way and we're helping them a lot. We've done, the community is interesting. They want to be more participatory. Uh that's where things like co pilot comes from. God, honestly, the best thing we've ever done in my order is probably are open road maps where the community can go into the road map and engage with us over there, whether it's an open source project or just trying to tell us what the feature is and how they would like to see it. It's a great engagement and you know, it's not us a lot. It's helped us prioritize correctly and think about what we want to do next. So yeah, I think that's, that >>must be very hard to do for opening up the kimono on the road map because normally that's the crown jewels and its secretive and you know, and um, now it's all out in the open. I think that is a really interesting, um, experiment and what's your reaction to that? What's been the feedback on the road map peace? Because I mean, I definitely want to see, uh, >>we do it pretty much for every service in my organization and we've been doing it now for three years. So years forget, I think about three years and it's been great. Now we are very we are very upfront, which is security and availability. Our job 000 and you know, 100 times out of 100 at altitudes between a new feature and helping our customers be available and safe. We'll do that. And this is why we don't put dates in that we just tell you directionally where we are and what we are prioritizing Uh, there every now and then we'll put something in there that, you know, well not choose not to put a feature in there because we want to keep it secret until it launches. But for the most part, 99% of our own myself there and people engaged with it. And it's not proven to be a problem because you've also been very responsible with how we manage and be very transparent on whether we can commit to something or not. And I think that's not. >>I gotta ask you on as a leader uh threaded leader on this group. Open source is super important, as you know, and you continue to do it from under years. How are you investing in the future? What's your plan? Uh plans for your team, the industry actually very inclusive, Which is very cool. It's gonna resonate well, what's the plans? Give us some details on what you're investing in, what your priorities? What's your first principles? >>Yeah, So it goes in many ways, one when I I also have the luxury also on the amazon open source program office. So, you know, I get the chance to my team, rather not me help amazon engineers participate in open source. That that's the team that helps create the tools for them, makes it easy for them to contribute, creates, you know, manages all the licenses, etcetera. I'll give you a simple example, you know, in there, just think of the cr credential helper that was written by one of our engineers and he kind of distorted because he felt it was something that we needed to do. And we made it open source in general, in in many of our teams. The first question we asked is should something the open why is this thing not open source, especially if it's a utility or some piece of software that runs along with services. So they'll step one. But we've done some big things also, I, you know, a couple of years ago we launched Lennox operating system called bottle Rocket. And right from the beginning it was very clear to us that bottle Rocket was two things. It was both in AWS product. But first it was an open source project. We've already learned a little bit from what we've done at Firecracker. But making bottle rocket and open source operating system is very important. Anyone can take part of Rocket the open source to build tooling. You can run it whatever you want. If you want to take part of Rocket and build a version and manage it for another provider. For another provider wants to do it, go for it. There's nothing stopping you from doing that. So you'll see us do a lot there. Obviously there's multiple areas. You've seen WS investing on the open source side. But to me, the winds come from when engineers can participate in small things, released little helpers or get contributions from outside. I think that's where we're still, we can always have that. We're going to continue to strive to make it better and easier. And uh, you know, I said, I have, you know, me and my team, we have an opportunity to help their inside the company and we continue to do so. But that's what gets me excited. >>Yeah, that's great stuff. And congratulations on investing in the community, really enjoys it and I know it moves the needle for the industry. Deepak, I gotta ask you why I got you here. Dr khan obviously, developers, what's the most important story that they should be paying attention to as a developer because of what's going on shift left for security day two operations also known as a I ops getups, whatever you wanna call it, you know, ongoing, you get server lists, you got land. I mean, all kinds of great things are going on. You mentioned Fargate, >>um >>what should they be paying attention to that's going to really help their life, both innovation wise and just the quality of life. >>Yeah, I would say look at, you know, in the end it is very easy developers in particular, I want to build the buildings and it's very easy to get tempted to try and get learn everything about something. You have access to all the bells and whistles and knobs, but in reality, if you want to run things you want to, you want to focus on what's important, the business application, that and you the application. And I think a lot of what I'll tell developers and I think it's a lot of where the industry is going is we have built a really solid foundation, whether it's humanity, so you CSN forget or you know, continue industries out there. We have very solid foundation that, you know, our customers and develop a goal of the world can use to build upon. But increasingly, and you know, they are going to provide tools that sort of take that wrap them up and providing a nice package solution After another great example, our collaboration, the doctor around Dr desktop are a great example where we get all the mark focus on the application and build on top of that and you can get so much done. I think that's one trend. You'll see more and more. Those things are no longer toys, their production grade systems that you can build real world applications on, even though they're so easy to use. The second thing I would add to that is uh, get uh, it is, you know, you can give it whatever name you want. There's uh, there's nuances there, but I actually think get up is the way people should be running the infrastructure, my virus in my personal, you know, it's something that we believe a lot in homicide as hard as you go towards immutable infrastructure, infrastructure, automation, we can get off plays a significant role. I think developers naturally gravitate towards it. And if you want to live in a world where development and operations are tightly linked, I think it after the huge role to play in that it's actually a big part of how we're planning to do things like yes, anywhere, for example, a significant player and that it would be a proton. I think get up will be a significant in the future of proton as well. So I think that's the other trend. If you wanted to pick a trend that people should pay attention. That's what I believe in a lot. >>Well you're an expert. So I want to get you a quick definition. What is get Ops, how would you define it? Because that's a big trend. What does it, what does that mean? >>Electricity will probably shoot me for getting this wrong. I tell you how I think about it. Which is, you know, in many cases, um, you when you're doing deployments are pushing a deployment getups is more of a full deployment. When you are pushing code to get depository, you have a system that knows that the event has happened and then pulls from there and triggers the thing as opposed to you telling it take I have this new piece of code now go deployed everywhere. So to me, the biggest changes that Two parts one is it's more for full mechanism where you're pulling because something has changed. So it needs systems like container orchestrators to keep them, you know, to keep them in sync. And the second part of the natural natural evolution of infrastructure score, which is basically everything is called the figures code. Infrastructure as code, code is code and everything is getting stored in that software repo and the software repo becomes your store of record and drives everything. Uh So for a glass of customers, that's going to be a pretty big deal. >>Yeah, when you're checking in code, that's again, it's like a compiler for the compiler, a container for the container, you've got things for each other. Automation is ultimately what we're talking about here. And that's to me where machine learning kicks in. So again, having this open source foundational fabric, as you said, forget out the muck or the undifferentiated heavy lifting. This is what we're talking about automation, isn't it? Deepak? >>Yes. I mean I said uh one thing where we hang our hat on is there's such good stuff out there in the world which we like to contribute to, but the thing we like to hang our hat on is how do you run this? How do you do it this in ways that you can uniquely bring capabilities to customers where there's things like nitro or things are nitro open stuff. Well, the fact that we have built up this operational infrastructure over the last in a decade plus or in the container space over the last seven years where we really really know how to run these things at scale and have made all the investments to make it easy to do. So that's that's where we have hanger hard keeping people safe, helping them only available applications, their new startup, that just completely takes off in over the weekend. For whatever reason, because, you know, you're the next hot thing on twitter and our goal is to support you whether you are, you know, uh enterprise that's moving from the main train or you are the next hot startup, that's you know, growing virally and uh, you know, we've done a lot to build systems help both sides and yeah, it's >>interesting if you sing about open source where it's come from, I mean I remember that base wouldn't open source wasn't open, I would be peddling software, there's a free copy of Linux, UNIX um in college and now it's all free. But I mean just what's changed now. It used to be just free software, download software. You got it now, it's a service. Service now can be monetized quickly. And what you guys are offering with AWS and cloud scale is you've done all these things as I don't have to have a developer. I get the benefits of the scale, I can bring my open source code to the table, make it a service integrated in with other services and be the next snowflake, be the next, you know, a company that could scale. And that is that's the that's the innovation, right? That's the this is a new phenomenon. So it also changes the business model. >>Yeah, actually you're you're quite right. Actually, I I like one more thing to it. But you look at how a lot of enterprises use containers today. Most of them are using something like this year, Symphony or GS to build an internal developer platform and internal developer portal. And then the question then becomes this hard to scale this modern and development practices to an entire organization. What is your big bank that's been around as thousands and thousands of ID stuff That may not all be experts are running communities running container is when you scale it out different systems that proton come into play. That was actually the inspiration is how do you help an organization where they're building these developer Portholes and developer infrastructure, developer platforms, How do you make it easy for them to build it? Be almost use it as a way to get these modern practices into the hands of all the business units, where they may not have the time to become experts at the modern ways of running infrastructure because they're busy doing other things. And I think you'll see the a lot more happening that space that's not happening in the open source community. There's proton, there's a bunch of interesting things happening here and be interesting to see how that evolves. >>And also, you know, the communal, communal aspect of not just writing code together, but succeeding, right, building something. I mean, that's when you start to see the commercial meets open kind of ethos of communal activity of working together and sharing a big part of this year's. Dakar Con is sharing not just running and shipping code but sharing. >>Yeah, I mean if you think about it uh Dockers original value was you build run and shit right? You use the same code to build it, you use the same code to ship it, the same sort of infrastructure interface and then you run it and that, you know, the fact that the doctor images such a wonderfully shareable entity uh that can run every girl is such a powerful and it's called the Ci Image. Now I still call him Dr images because it's just easier. But that to me like that is a big deal and I think it's becoming and become an even bigger deal over the years. I came from something before, Amazon has to work in The sciences and bioinformatics and you know, the ability to share codeshare dependencies, package all of that up in a container image is a big deal. It's what got me one of the reasons I got fascinated with container 78 years ago. So it will be interesting to see where all of systems. >>It's great, great stuff. Great success. And congratulations. Deepak, Great to always talk to you got a great finger on the pulse. You lead a really important organizations at AWS and you know, doctor has such a huge success with developers, even though the company has gone through kind of a uh change over and a pivot to what they're doing now. They're back to their open source roots, but they have millions and millions of developers use Docker and new developers are coming in dot net developers are coming in. Windows developers are coming in and and so it's no longer about Lennox anymore. It's about just coding. >>Yeah. And it's it's part of this big trend towards infrastructure, automation and and you know development and deployment practices that I think everyone is going to adopt faster than we think they will. But you know, companies like Doctor and opens those projects that they involved are critical in making that a lot easier for them. And then you know, folks like us get to build on top of that orbit them and make it even easier. >>Well, great testimony the doctor that you guys based your E C. S on Docker Doctor has a critical role in developing community. I run composed in their hub with dr desktop and we'll be watching amazon and and the community activity and see what kind of experiences you guys can bring to the table and continue that momentum. Thank you Deepak for coming on the >>cube. Thank you, john. That's always a pleasure. >>Okay. Mr cubes. Dr khan 2021 virtual coverage. I'm john for your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>from >>around the >>globe, it's the >>Cube with digital coverage of IBM, think 2020 >>one brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to the cubes coverage of IBM think 2021 we're gonna talk about the Edge like what is the Edge, how it's going to evolve? And we're gonna take a look at an autonomous vessel use case, which is quite interesting with me is rob high and IBM fellow VP and Cto, IBM edge computing rob. Welcome. It's great to see you again. >>Thanks. Dave appreciate that. Good seeing you too. >>Yeah, So let's start with the basic question here, you know, people are like, well what is the Edge? Like it's one big thing and it's not, it's, it's many things, but how should we think about the edge and why should enterprises, you know, feel like it's necessary to begin to lean in? >>Well, let's just start with the use cases. Uh, you know, what edge means is the ability to put a camera on the manufacturing floor, you know, perhaps juxtaposed with a robot monitoring the work that the robot is doing using ai visual recognition to detect whether what that robot is doing is producing high quality parts or not. And to be able to do that in real time to be able to use that analytic then too, you know, quickly remediate any kind of quality issues, helps lower cost, it helps increase your yield and it helps increase the overall efficiency of your production processes. Or if not that, then putting it in something that's perhaps a bit more familiar to us. The idea of an autonomous vehicle, you know, be able to, you know, dr and do driver assistance to driver safety kinds of features, you know, all of that requires compute and having that compute where people are actually performing these tasks based on the data that they're receiving at the moment they receive it be able to process that real time, give them the feedback that allows them to make better decisions to be able to do that not only with lower latency, but actually with better protection of their data, better protection of their personal information or private information. If you're thinking about the business in which they operate, you know, be able to do that even when the network fails to be able to do that without necessarily have to transmit tons and tons of data back to the cloud, especially if you end up not actually using that anywhere. That's what as computing really means. >>Yeah. So it sounds like the edges, maybe we shouldn't think of it as a place, but the most logical place to process the data of, depending on late and see and other factors. It's that's a good way to look at it. So it's >>yeah, just where we do our work. >>Yeah. Well you do the work, right. That that makes a lot of sense. Thank you for that. So you know, we always we're talking about the pandemic, changing the way we think about things. And I wonder if you can comment on the the edge context as we come back From we work from home or remote work. You know, I think 2022, we hope it's going to be face to face. Uh good edge play a part in that. Has the pandemic uh made you think differently about the opportunities that edge? >>Yeah. And in fact what we've seen is the pandemic is actually beginning to accelerate digital transformation. If you think about it, you know any store they wanted to survive. This pandemic could only do so by basically introducing a digital presence, you know, the ability to buy online. And even if you're picking up at the store, picking up the curbside, you know you can't go into a restaurant without getting that Q. R. Code that gives you your digital menu. Um Trying to get workers back into factories as well as the warehouses and offices. And to do so safely be able to ensure that they're wearing their face masks and socially distancing properly. All of these things I think have driven digital transformation. And if you think about the task of buying online and picking up the store well stories better have a pretty good idea of where their inventory is. Um They need to know exactly where that product is. So they can quickly pick it and get it available to the client before they arrive at the store. Um And so that's edge computing. We need edge computing to be able to to automate the processes of inventory tracking down to individual items and where they're located throughout the store. To be able to do the recognition for whether people are or not maintaining social distancing or wearing the PP. E. Um to be able to ensure that our processes or as automated as possible to limit the amount of human interaction that's required in order to perform these processes. All of that I think has accelerated both digital transformation as well as particularly the use of edge computing uh in all of our businesses. >>I think about, you know, the force marched to digital in 2020 and if you weren't a digital business you were out of business. But you're my big takeaway from what you just said is a digital transformation is just starting. And now people really have some time to think about that, that digital strategy and and as we think about doing things you know more safely, maybe with less human intervention, we love autonomous vehicles. Examples, just because they're technically they're challenging. But I wonder if you could tell us the story of the Mayflower autonomous ship, its upcoming journey, it's going to be cruelest across the atlantic, unbelievable collecting data. You know, talk about how edge relates to that story. What can you tell us? >>Well, first of all, this is simply talk about the task of navigating a ship from one port on one side of the world too, another port across the ocean, across the atlantic. Um you know, the ocean is a dangerous place. Yes, it's wide open, it's you know, lots of water, but the reality is it's full of barriers. Of course, you've got land barriers, you've got other ships, you've got marine life, you've got debris that gets dropped in the ocean. And so the task of navigating is actually quite difficult. And again, to the same point that we made earlier, you have to have local compute in order to really be able to make those decisions fast enough with enough acuity with enough clarity to be able to be able to safely safely navigate around those kinds of obstacles. So we have to put compute in the ship. So the may fire ship is as I sort of implied a ship that will be autonomous. There are no human beings involved in in operating the ship. It has to be able to on its own. Both recognize these obstacles, recognizing the ship, recognize about, recognize um, you know, that cargo, uh, container that happened to have fallen off some other ships and floating through the ocean, recognize, you know, rain life, uh, whales and other other fish and birds that might be, uh, in the way. Um, and, and, and to be able to um, do all that, you know, entirely without any human invention. So that compute power is really a prime example of an edge computer. It is compute in the, in the business of navigation, making decisions about the things that it sees and making decisions about how best to circumvent those issues. Um, Now along the way, I should also say part of what the Mayflower ship that's going to do is not only exercise the task of navigation and prove that these algorithms can efficiently and effectively bring that shit from one side of the world to the other side safely. But along the way, it's going to conduct science is going to collect water samples for the chemical makeup of the oceans. At various points along the way it's going to be sampling for microplastics are examining phytoplankton for its health and liveliness. It's going to be the detecting wave motions and the wave energy that might be indicative of how the world is transforming in the presence of global climate change. Um These science packages that are going to be formed are also being performed autonomously without inhuman invention. And that actually opens up a very exciting potential future, which is the idea of these autonomous ships navigating the oceans, collecting data that can then be brought back for the scientists to examine so that they the scientists are not having to go out and spend weeks and months at a time in these perilous conditions, these potentially lonely conditions um collecting that data, but rather they can remain safely on land. The ship will collect the data and they can analyze that data from their home labs. So this is actually a really exciting project, but one that I think will demonstrate not only the idea that computing, but also the advances in navigation and marine science. >>Yeah, because I mean the ship has to navigate itself. Not only is it bringing back data, but there's a great, great example. I mean a lot of the work in machine intelligence today is uh in the modeling side. This is this is this is inference going on in near real time, uh which we think is where the action is. That's why we love the autonomous because there's a lot of IBM tech involved in here as well. Is there not? I mean, you've got to have software and you've got your edge devices, you've got, you know, automation capabilities. I mean, it's not all right. This is like serious technical challenge. >>Yeah. Well, we were approached by the primary team on this project and it didn't take us long to realize the utility that some of our technology would have to dancing their project. And so you're right. I mean, we have things like operations, decision and ODM which typically is used in the things of the services industry, but now it's being applied to the rules of navigation would call the cold cold rags. Um We've got our Ai services that do visual recognition because obviously we've got to be able to detect and identify um, the things that the ship is seeing along the way and be able to distinguish what those things are. Uh we have our imagine application manager which is being used to manage deployment of these kinds of workloads and frankly all of the workloads that are hosted in the ship, getting that managed and deployed onto the ship. Uh and and of course, you know, all these things have to be integrated. And so that's just a small sampling of the kinds of technologies. But it's a good example of where I think the edge kind of represents the culmination of what we have all been working within this industry, which is how do we bring technologies together to solve a problem as an integrated solution? >>You mentioned financial services. So I wonder if we could, you know, think beyond shipping, maybe what, what are you seeing in other industries? Are there any patterns that are developing, where clients are saying, hey, we need this sort of this capability? What can you tell us? >>So, I think it is, it's probably greatest demand right now in manufacturing, uh, in industrial 4.0, uh, kinds of environments where, you know, most of the industry, the industrial industries and markets have grown up largely dependent upon operations technology. Ot but one of the things that people need in these kind of environments is the additional benefits that come from A. I and we talked about using ai to do visual recognition on manufacturing processes, looking at quality inspection, for example, but there's other aspects of production optimization of workers safety. We talked a little bit about that around uh, predictive maintenance and asset management. Uh, you know, these kinds of additional things that are necessary to really to run your factory efficiently or you're you're drilling rig or your energy production systems. All these kinds of industrial processes can benefit from the advances that are occurring in analytics. And um, and, and then of course, having localized compute to do that with, to both do these kinds of decisions in real time, but also to offload the amount of transmission that we end up transmitting back to the cloud. So industry 40 or manufacturing is one big area retail. We talked about that, but you think about point of sale terminals and the idea of being able to do offers at point of sale to be able to do price checking to help you navigate the stores, digital signage. Um, you know, all the user experiences, spillage and spoilage and loss prevention. These are all kinds of use cases that will benefit retail retailers. Um, lot demand, of course. Again, the need to be able to do that locally within the store. We talked to touch a little bit on automotive. The whole automotive industry right now is going through a really fundamental transformation where virtually every automobile now is being imbued with more and more compute capacity and localized processing for doing driver safety and car maintenance and, and, and even short of, you know, full autonomy, which is of course is another topic in its own right. Uh lots of experiences that can be brought there as well. So lots of opportunity and distribution, manufacturing, retail banking. Virtually every industry that we've looked at has some opportunity for leveraging the benefits of the computer. Yeah, >>it's hard to get cars right now because the chip shortest. But I wonder real quick if you could talk about five G, you hear a lot about five Gs tons of hype there. How should we be thinking about 5G? How real is it? What's your take in terms of its impact on the edge? >>So a couple of thoughts here, one is 5G obviously is accelerating And it has the effect of accelerating edge computing because one of the benefits of 5G of course is lower latency and higher bandwidth. And that opens people's minds. The potential to leverage the network connectivity of equipment that otherwise is hard to connect. If you think about the factory floor for a moment and all the kinds of equipment you have on the factory floor. If you had to hardwire all that equipment to get access to the compute power on that, that could be a very expensive proposition. You'd like to kind of wirelessly connect that equipment and that's one of things that five day brings to the table because some of the spectrum five take uses has less potential to interfere with that equipment than than you would otherwise. So I think that what we're going to see is 5G will disproportionately benefit. I'll call him industrial or commercial use cases as compared to four G. And L. T. Which were very much centered on consumer use case five Gs accelerating edge computing in many ways Five G actually depends on edge computing doesn't mean that we can't do edge computing without five do we can we can certainly do it for dlt even wire line But I think 5G is going to have a very symbiotic effect on edge computing. >>Yeah just like wifi was enabler mobile but this is much much much larger potential rob. We gotta go. Thanks so much for coming on and sharing your insights. I'd love to have you back, awesome. Thanks. >>Alright appreciate it. Thank >>you for watching everybody's Day Volonte for the cubes coverage of IBM. Think 2020 21 2021 will be right back. >>Yeah. >>Yeah.

>>from around >>The globe. It's the cube with digital coverage of IBM. Think 2021 brought to you by IBM Hello and welcome back everyone to the cubes coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm john for your host of the cube. I'm excited to have this next guest cube alumni Casey choi corporate E V P. Executive vice president and general manager at Samsung Mobile, the B to B and B to G team Casey, great to see you how you been >>john it is wonderful to see you and it's been way too long. Great to be back on the cube with you. Looking forward to our conversation and hope you're safe >>and same to you. Great to see you. I'm so excited. One of the things I've really admired about you and our conversations in the past as you've always had your finger on the pulse of the waves and you've always involved with some really great engineering work and I want to dig into this now because um your role is really hitting the industry four dot oh kind of wave, which is the confluence of tech, media, entertainment, every vertical big data IOT and the the with the distributed computing now called the cloud and edge. It really sets the table for what is now going to be the preferred architecture probably for the next 20 plus years. So give us your view on how you see the the changing landscape in the industry. >>Yeah, I think I think you you covered you know, all of the major seismic shifts that are happening here and then, you know, as we've all experienced over the last, you know, over a year with the covid pandemic, that's actually accelerated a lot of the thinking around the edge. We've certainly seen use cases proliferate whether it be in things such as health care, Manufacturing is also taken. I think a real hard look at the applicability of these types of solutions. Uh we've seen things like for example 5G pick up in these sort of industrial applications as um you know as the industrial companies have thought about worker safety as they thought about automation as they thought about, you know, utilize being more protocols as well as you know, bringing these technologies and processes together in a way that will help to kind of reinvent their their particular economic base as well as kind of the learnings that we've seen over the last year coming from these new uh safety protocols as well as the need for now with the economy is picking back up the need for productivity as well as you know, greater efficiencies coming from these types of solutions. So we've seen that confluence happened and then certainly on our end as our network connectivity has become much stronger, lower latency as well as the endpoint capabilities have increased dramatically over the last few years, as S O C. S and others have taken root. We've seen the edge, if you will start to be more extreme in the sense that it's pushing further and further out beyond what we originally envisioned the edge to be. >>And the S O C trend actually highlights that it's not so much about moore's law as it is more about more chips, more more performance if you look at actual performance, David and they just put out a report on this where there's much more performance now than ever before coming in from the combined energy. So uh and combined processing power out there. So it's super, super amazing what you can do at the edge. Before we get into the edge. I want to just Clarify, what is your new role there? I mean Samsung is known for, I'll see the B2C with the phones and everything else, but you have a specific focus uh what is your main focus there? >>Yeah, our missions pretty straightforward and as everyone knows, you know, Samsung is this uh you know, powerhouse uh consumer electronics company we pride ourselves in and obviously uh our our position in that, but um we also have a very significant role really in the business to business and in the government and financial services sector space uh with our mobile devices as well as with our knock security platform solution and device management platform. We actually provide a large portion of the secure devices for governments worldwide, as well as the Knox platform that is built into the majority of our both consumer as well as business devices uh really allows for uh that uh if you will that next protective layer on top of the android. Os that allows for things such as personal and professional profile. So we produce those solutions out of my team um as well as we provide really the the go to market support as well as the R and D support for that platform, including uh an area that's growing rapidly for us, which is in the rugged category, which is, you know, one of the key products that we're using for some of these edge applications that will be talking about. >>Great, let's jump into that. What are you guys doing specifically on the edge computing space? Let's dig into it. >>Yeah, I think, you know, maybe the place to start on that is uh we're really kind of re envisioning what the edges and uh I mentioned a little earlier that uh with what's occurring in the performance profile and really the functional profile, what is being produced at the device level, You know, we're talking about in the last few years, the fidelity and the capabilities are, you know, in, you know, what I would call the the computer class type uh, functions as well as obviously mobile devices have always been um, communication gateways for a number of functions, whether they be, you know, videos or photos, their multi sensory in nature. And as this has become more practical and the connective tissue has gotten there with five G as well as all kinds of other, you know, fast, low latency communications capabilities and wifi six U w b, you know, included within that. What we're finding is that the use case to bring applications, especially cloud, native and container native applications uh, to these devices to be, you know, augmenting the the endpoint user, the frontline worker, uh really the Knowledge Worker and moving that capability further away from if you will and an extension to cloud services as well as the M E C type services. This is where we see it going and really what we're trying to to work on with IBM and with red hat is how do we, you know, continue to fortify this, not only from a actual processing ai Ml capability, but also equipped these devices so that they can fully participate as part of a multi hybrid cloud architecture. Uh the endpoint is really one of the last baskets where we have not uh kind of conquered bringing uh, you know, cloud first container native applications really to that point and we believe the time is right because of the capabilities that are there along with again, uh the connectivity that is becoming much more ubiquitous now to allow for that type of architecture to exist. And uh, we're starting to call this the intelligent human edge as well. We think that the applications that will see for this are you know, ones that will uh, you know, make the, the human operator more productive, safer, uh certainly more efficient and uh we think that this augmentation of that front line workers is an area that we, we are, you know, put put our, our steaks on in terms of pioneering just because of our experience in that mobility space and in the consumer space. >>That's great. You brought up red hat and IBM obviously red hat was bought by IBM Arvin Arvin Ceo. Well I interviewed in 2019 and the cube that red hat summit, ironically a couple months later by the company just smile on his face. He likes clowns. >>You had something to do with that. You know, >>he wanted to, I could see he wanted to say it, but but he loves the cloud. Everyone who knows Arvin knows that he's into the cloud in a new way in this edge piece that you mentioned that you're using red hat and IBM for hybrid. This is what the new operating system is going to look like. It's a completely distributed system and the edge is just part of that operating model. This is what their vision is, which I love by the way, I think that redefines what that is. Are you saying that you guys are working with red hat and IBM for that hybrid edge piece. How does that work? Can you take me through that? >>Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean this is a obviously the ecosystems bigger than that, but IBM and red Hat really bring the expertise really around uh container ecosystems, certainly the work that they have done in terms of multi hybrid cloud, uh certainly the work that open ship has brought forward in terms of, you know, multi platform capability. We really love the concept of developed once run any sort of a construct. And uh when you think about it, the mobile platforms specifically, you know, ours as well as others has really been that last bastion of, of areas where more of the development is on a particular platform, it's more bespoke. We think that by broaching this uh, you know, in conjunction with IBM and Red Hat, um this is going to give us the ability to have these device architecture has become a full voting member if you will of of that hybrid cloud architecture and of that microservices can contain architecture that is becoming much more prevalent. So this is really the work that we're doing. And then obviously we're working at a vertical level to see where are the applicable use cases in places such as the design studio we have in Singapore, where with the Singaporean government, we're looking at really bringing a renaissance to industry ford auto type application, smart factory automation, public safety. These areas where we believe that this type of architecture can be, can be deployed. >>That's awesome. And totally believe that the edge um it's still gonna be pushed further and further out, honestly having that open, open standards of of hybrid. So I gotta ask you on the edge just well I got you here, you know, one of the things that you see clearly as the industrial edge, it's called factories and whatnot. You mentioned some of those and then you got the human piece, which is like people have phones and wearables and other things are gonna be happening. So as you start to have those endpoints which are then gonna be connected into a distributed network, take a hybrid cloud, so to be multiple clouds. But yeah, that's the subsystem within the cloud construct. The complaint has been not complaint, but the observation has been and complain if you look at it that the edges limited by power and connectivity. Okay. These are like key basic concepts, How is the connectivity option? I know five Gs coming, it's here, we're seeing it being deployed, we got people saying, hey, this is our business application, clearly got higher throughput, not as much range, give us your take on this because this becomes important. I'll see powers battery driven, getting better and better and and power is getting uh is not really that much of a problem, but connectivity seems to be what's your vision of this? >>Yeah, and you know, there's a lot of ways to approach that, I will tell you on the industrial side, at least in some of the deployments and pOC is that we've been involved in over the last year to two years, um connectivity is an issue uh and a lot of it has to do with the infrastructure that is available in many of these uh you know, plants or factories or you know, points of distribution. Uh they're not necessarily, you know, leading edge in many cases we're dealing with uh you know what I would call subpar connectivity, it's not like an office complex where You may have, you know, kind of state of the art wifi capability or you know, 10 gig capability or whatever it might be. Um So what we've, what we've found on that is it requires actually quite a bit of work in terms of fine tuning both on the network infrastructure side, whatever that might be. Uh Or we've also found that on the device side, the program ability of the of the device in terms of tuning it for whatever connective environment would be there. And we worked with everything from, you know, bluetooth, you w b uh to wifi six and everything in between and in many cases they're multiple uh you know, protocols or connectivity methods that are there. So, you know, one thing we've learned is that um you can't you can't necessarily assume that in a especially in a factory environment that those conditions are going to allow for um uh you know, consistency, so you have to engineer around that, you know, and some of the things that we've done are really around making sure that we've got uh, you know, deployable program ability at the device as well as, you know, uh more dynamic network tuning capabilities that will allow for, you know, better connectivity and handle things such as consistency. >>All right, Casey, Great to incite final question for you why Samsung and IBM, what's the bottom line? >>Yeah, I think the bottom line is really straightforward. I mean we've had a, you know, 30 year history of working together, uh you know, we've been mutual customers to each other. We do a lot of work for IBM in regards to foundry type services and semiconductor services and then we work very closely with them over many years on applications. So number one, there's been a natural relationship just in the the the services that we provided to each other. But as as we look at really to go to market, I mean, IBM brings so much credibility from a vertical market perspective. Um there's a trusted advisor type status that I think is is very profound and it's been built over many years, you know, delivering on the promises and on our end. I think what we bring is really this uh this uh cycle time that is driven by our passion in the consumer space. And when we start to apply that into more of these vertical industrial, uh you know, vertical sectors, I think that combination is very powerful. Um the services piece obviously comes into play with IBM and then really the red hat piece of this really just puts the icing on the cake with really the market leadership in uh you know, hybrid cloud and in the container native architecture. So it's just a very powerful combo. And um you know, the cooperation there has been strong and we continue to look forward to delivering more through that partnership. >>Casey great to see a great, great thing to hear. You know, you got scalable infrastructure, you get modern applications at the edge, all of hybrid. Great, great partnership. Casey Choi Executive Vice Corporate Executive Vice President and General Manager of Samsung Mobile B two B team. Great to see you and congratulations on your mission. It's exciting project. Thanks for coming on the cube and sharing. >>Great to see you, jOHn take care of yourself and looking forward to seeing you again. >>Okay, this is the cubes coverage. IBM think 2021. I'm john for your host of the cube. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. Yeah, welcome back to the cubes. Live coverage here for eight of us. Reinvent 2020. Virtual normally were on the show floor getting all of the interviews and talking about the top newsmakers and we have one of them here on the Cube were remote. I'm John for your host of the Cube. George Ellis Eros, GM and director of product manager for AWS. Talking about Wavelength George. Welcome to the remote Cube Cube. Virtual. Thanks for coming on. >>Good to be here. Thanks for having a John >>Eso Andy's Kino. One of the highlights last year, I pointed out that the five g thing is gonna be huge with the L A Wavelength Metro thing going on this year. Same thing. Mawr Proofpoint S'more expansion. Take us through what was announced this year. What's the big update on wavelength? >>Yes, so John Wavelength essentially brings a W services at the edge of the five G network, allowing our AWS customers and developers to reach their own end users and devices. Five devices with very low latency enabling a number off emerging applications ranging from industrial automation and I O. T. All the way to weigh AR VR smart cities, connected vehicles and much more this year we announced earlier in the year the general availability of wavelength in two locations one in the Bay Area and one in the Boston area. And since then we've seen we've been growing with Verizon or five D partner in the U. S. And and increasing that coverage in multiple off the larger U. S cities, including Miami and D. C in New York. And we launched Las Vegas yesterday at Andy's keynote with Verizon. We also announced that we are going toe to have a global footprint with K d D I in Japan launching a wavelength in Tokyo with SK detail SK Telecom in in South Korea or launching indigestion and with Vodafone in London >>so significant its expansion. Um, we used to call these points of presence back in the old days. I don't know what you call them now. I guess they're just zones like you calling them zones, but this really is gonna be a critical edge network, part of the edge, whether it's stadiums, metro area things and the density and the group is awesome. And everyone loves at about five gs. More of a business at less consumer. When you think about it, what has been some of the response as you guys had deployed mawr, What's the feedback? Um, can you take us through what the response has been? What's it been like? What have been some of the observations? >>Yeah, customers air really excited with the promise of five G and really excited to get their hands on these new capabilities that we're offering. Um, And they're telling us, you know, some consistent feedback that we're getting is that they're telling us that they love that they can use the same A W s, a P I S and tools and services that they used today in the region to get their hands on this new capabilities. So that's being pretty pretty consistent. Feedback these off use and the you know, Sometimes customers tell us that within a day they are able to deploy their applications in web. So that's a that's pretty consistent there. We've seen customers across a number of areas arranging, you know, from from manufacturing to healthcare to a ar and VR and broadcasting and live streaming all the way to smart cities and and connected vehicles. So a number of customers in these areas are using wavelength. Some of my favorite you know, examples are in in actually connected vehicles where you really can see that future materialized. You get, you know, customers like LG that are building the completely secularized vehicle, tow everything platform, and customers like safari that allow multiple devices to do, you know, talkto the Waveland, the closest Waveland Zone process. All of those device data streams at the edge. And then, um, it back. You know messages to the drivers, like for emergency situations, or even construct full dynamic maps for consumption off the off the vehicle themselves. >>I mean, it's absolutely awesome. And, you know, one of things that someone Dave Brown yesterday around the C two and the trend with smaller compute. You have the compute relationship at the edge to moving back and forth so I can see those dots connecting and looking forward to see how that plays out. Sure, and it will enable more capabilities. I do want to get your your thoughts, or you could just for the audience and our perspective just define the difference between wavelength and local zones because we know what regions are. Amazon regions are well understood all around the world. But now you have this new concept called locals owns part of wavelength, not part of wavelengths. Are they different technology? Can you just explain? Take him in to exclaim wavelength versus local zones how they work together? >>Yeah, So let me take a step back at AWS. Basically, what we're trying to do is we're trying to enable our customers to reach their end users with low latency and great performance, wherever those end users are and whatever network they're they're using to get connected, whether that's the five g mobile network with the Internet or in I o t Network. So we have a number of products that help our customers do that. And we expect, like, in months off other areas of the AWS platform, that customers are gonna pick and twos and mix and match and combine some of these products toe master use case. So when you're talking about wavelength and local zones, wavelength is about five g. There is obviously a lot off excitement as you said yourself about five g about the promise off those higher throughput. They're Lowell agencies. You know, the large number of devices supported and with wavelengths were enabling our customers toe to make the most of that. You know, of the five G technology and toe work on these emerging new use cases and applications that we talked about When it comes to local zones, we're talking more about extending AWS out two more locations. So if you think about you mentioned AWS regions, we have 24 regions in another five coming. Those are worldwide and enabled most of our customers to run their workloads. You know all of their workloads with low latency and adequate performance across the world. But we are hearing from customers that they want AWS in more locations. So local zones basically bring a W S extend those regions to more locations by bringing a W s closer to population I t and industrial centers. You know, l A is a great example of that. We launched the lay last year toe to local zones in L. A and toe toe a mainly at the media and entertainment customers that are, you know, in the L. A Metro, and we've seen customers like Netflix, for example, moving their artist workstations to the local zones. If they were to move that somewhere, you know, to the cloud somewhere further out the Laden's, he might have been too much for their ass artists work clothes and having some local AWS in the L. A. Metro allows them to finally move those workstation to the cloud while preserving that user experience. You know, interacting with the workstations that's happened. The cloud. >>So just like in conceptualizing is local zone, like a base station is in the metro point of physical location. Is it outpost on steroids? Been trying to get the feel for what it is >>you can think off regions consisting off availability zones. So these are, you know, data center clusters that deliver AWS services. So a local zone is much like an availability zone. But instead of being co located with the rest of the region, is in another locations that, for example, in L. A. Rather than being, you know, in in Virginia, let's say, um, they are internally. We use the same technology that we use for outpost, I suppose, is another great example of how AWS is getting closer to customers for on premises. Deployments were using much of the same technology that you you probably know as Nitro System and a number of other kind of technology that we've been working on for years, actually, toe make all this possible. >>You know, anyone who's been to a football game or any kind of stadium knows you got a great WiFi signal, but you get terrible bandwidth that is essentially kind of the back hall component for the telecom geeks out there. This is kind of what we're talking about here, right? We're talking about more of an expansionary at that edge on throughput, not just signal. So there's, you know, there's there's a wireless signal, and it's like really conductivity riel functionality for applications. >>Yeah, and many. Many of those use case that we're talking about are about, you know, immersive experiences for for end users. So with five t, you get that increasing throughput, you can get up to 10 GPS. You know, it is much higher with what you get 40. You also get lower latents is, but in order to really get make the most out of five G. You need to have the cloud services closer to the end user. So that's what Wavelength is doing is bringing all of those cloud services closer to the end user and combined with five G delivers on these on these applications. You know, um, a couple of customers are actually doing very, very, very exciting things on immersive application, our own immersive experiences. Um, why be VR is a customer that's working on wavelength today to deliver a full 3 60 video off sports events, and it's like you're there. They basically take all of those video streams. They process them in the waving zone and then put them back down to your to your VR headset. But don't you have seen those? We are headsets there, these bulky, awkward, big things because we can do a lot of the processing now at the edge rather than on the heads of itself. We are envisioning that these headsets will Will will string down to something that's indistinguishable potential from, you know, your glasses, making that user experience much better. >>Yeah, from anything from first responders toe large gatherings of people having immersive experiences, it's only gonna get better. Jorge. Thanks for coming on. The Cuban explaining wavelength graduates on the news and expansion. A lot more cities. Um, what's your take for reinvent while I got you? What's the big take away for you this year? Obviously. Virtual, but what's the big moment for you? >>Well, I think that the big moment for me is that we're continuing to, you know, to deliver for our customers. Obviously, a very difficult year for everyone and being able to, you know, with our help off our customers and our partners deliver on the reinvent promised this year as well. It is really impressed for >>me. All right. Great to have you on. Congratulations on local news. Great to see Andy pumping up wavelength. Ah, lot more work. We'll check in with you throughout the year. A lot to talk about. A lot of societal issues and certainly a lot of a lot of controversy as well as tech for good, great stuff. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. >>Thanks for having me. Thanks. >>Okay, That's the cube. Virtual. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching. We'll be back with more coverage from reinvent 2023 weeks of coverage. Walter Wall here in the Cube. Thanks for watching. Yeah,

>>From around the globe. It's the cube with coverage of coop con and cloud native con North America, 2020 virtual brought to you by red hat, the cloud native computing foundation and ecosystem partners. >>Hey, welcome back, everybody Jeffrey here with the cube coming to you from our Palo Alto studios today with our ongoing coverage of coupon cloud native con North America, 2020. It's not really North America, it's virtual like everything else, but you know that the European show earlier in the summer, and this is the, this is the late fall show. So we're excited to welcome in our very next two guests. Uh, first joining us from Madrid. Spain is Miguel Perez, Kaleena. He is a principal product manager from red hat, Miguel. Great to see you. >>Good to see you happy to be in the cube. >>Yes. Great. Well welcome. And joining us from North Carolina is rich Sharples. He is a senior director, product management of red hat. Rich. Great to see you. >>Yeah, likewise, thanks for inviting me again. >>So we're talking about Java today and before we kind of jump into it, you know, in preparing for this rich, I saw an interview that you did, I think earlier about halfway through the year, uh, celebrating the 25th anniversary of Java and talking about the 25th anniversary Java. And before we kind of get into the future, I think it's worthwhile to take a look back at, you know, kind of where Java came from and how it's lasted for 25 years of such an important enterprise, you know, kind of application framework, because we always hear jokes about people looking for COBOL programmers or, you know, all these old language programmers, because they have some old system that's that needs a little assist. What's special about Java. Why are we 25 years into it? And you guys are still excited about Java yesterday, today and in the future. >>Yeah. And I should add that, um, in terms of languages, uh, twenty-five is actually still pretty young. Java's, uh, kind of middle aged, I guess. Um, you know, things like CC plus bus rrr you're 45, 50 years old Python, I think is about the same as Java in terms of years. So, you know, the languages do tend to move at a, um, at a, they do tend to stick around, uh, uh, a bit, well what's made Java really, really important for enterprises building business critical applications is it started off with a very large ecosystem of big vendors supporting it. Um, it was open in a sense from the very start and it's remained open as in open source and an open community as well. So that's really, really helped, um, you know, keep the language innovating and moving along and attracting new developers. And, um, it's, it's still a fairly modern language in terms of some of the new features it's advancing with the industry taking on new kinds of workloads and new kinds of per program paradigms as well. So, you know, it's, it's evolved very well and has a huge base out somewhere between 11 and 13 million developers still use it as a primary development language in professional settings. Yeah. >>What struck me about what you said though in that interview was kind of the evolution and how Java has been able to continue to adapt based on kind of what the new frameworks are. So whether it was early days in a machine, like you talked about being in a set top box, or, you know, kind of really lightweight kind of almost IOT applications then to be calming, you know, this really a great application to deliver enterprise applications via a web browser and that, you know, and it continues to morph and change and adapt over time. I thought that was pretty interesting given the vast change in the way applications are delivered today versus what they were 25 years ago. >>Yeah, absolutely. It's, you know, the very early days were around embedded devices, uh, intelligent toasters and, you know, whatever. Um, and, and then where it really, really took off was, but the building supporting big backend systems, big transactional workloads, whether you're a bank or an airline you're running both the scale, but also running really, really complex transactional systems that were business critical. And that's that's for the last, you know, 15 years has been, um, where it's, it's really shown building backend, um, systems. Now, as we kind of move forward, you know, the idea of, uh, um, like server side, uh, server side application versus a front end is kind of changed. You know, now we're talking microservices, we're talking about running in containers. So really the focus of where we run Java and the kinds of applications we're building with Java as this has radically changed. And as such the language has to change as well, which is, you know, one, I'm pretty excited to talk about caucus today. >>So let's, let's jump into it and talk about corcus cause the other big trend, you know, along with, with, with obviously, uh, uh, browsers being great enterprise applications, delivery vehicles is this thing called containers, right? And, and specifically more recently Kubernetes is the one that's grabbing all the attention and grabbing all the, all the momentum. Um, so I wonder Miguel, if you could talk about, you know, kind of as, as the popularity of containerized applications and containerized to everything right, containerized storage, or you even talked about containerizing networking, troll, how that's impacted, uh, what you guys are doing and the impact of Java, uh, and making it work with kind of a containerized Kubernetes world. >>Well, what we found is that the paradigm of development has teeth. So we have this top up, uh, uh, paradigm that the people are following to be able to do the best with containers, to the best with Kubernetes on the, this has worked quite fine in Greenfield on for, for many cases has been a way to develop applications faster, to be able to obtain variably salts. And the thing is that for many, uh, users, for many companies that we work with, uh, they also want to bring some of their stuff that the applications that are currently are running into this world. And, uh, I mean, we, we walk especially a lot in helping these customers be able to adopt those obligations, but we try to do it, uh, as we say, the N pixie dust, you know, we really dig into the code, we'll review the code with modernize. The application will help their customer with that application. We provide the tools are open for anyone to be able to review it and to be able to take it. So we are moving away from Greenfield into brownfield and not a way we are evolving together to say we more precise, you know, all these Greenfield applications keep coming, but also the current applications want to be more organized. >>Right. Right. So it's pretty interesting. Cause that's always the big conversation. There's, it's, it's all fine. And good if you're just building something new, uh, to use the latest tools. But as you mentioned, there's a whole lot of conversation about application modernization and this is really an opportunity to apply some of these techniques to do that. So quirky. So I wonder if you just give, let's just jump into it. What is it at the highest level? Uh, what's it all about? What should people know? >>Yeah. So, so Corker says I'm reading an attempt by red hat to ensure Java is a first-class citizen in containerized environments, but building reactive applications, uh, cloud native applications, uh, functions, Java is an incredible piece of engineering. It does some incredible things. It sudden can self optimize. As it's running in line code, it can do some really amazing things the longer it runs, but in a containerized environment, you're likely not going to be running huge amounts of code. You'd likely be running microservices and your, your services are likely to have a kind of limited life cycle as we you're able to deploy more frequently or in a function environment where, you know, you've been bought once and then you're done, um, you know, during all those long, um, kind of, um, those optimizations over time, don't really, um, make a lot of sense. So what we can do is remove a lot of the, um, the weights of Java, a lot of the complexity of Java, and we can optimize for an environment where your code is maybe just running for a few microseconds as in the case of the function or something running in native, cause you scale up and scale down. >>So we move a lot of the op side. We move a lot of the, um, the, the efforts within the application, uh, to compile time, we pre compile all of your, of your config and initialization, so that doesn't have to happen in your, um, your, your, your runtime or your production environment. Um, and then we can optimize the code week. We can, we can remove that code. We can remove, you know, whole, uh, trees and class libraries and really slimmed down the memory footprint and radically, um, slim, the Maddie memory footprint, um, increase the startup time as well. So, you know, you have less downtime in your applications. Um, and we've recently done a S a study with ADC that shows some pretty stunning results compared to, you know, some existing frameworks. And, you know, we get, um, you know, sort of like, you know, overall cost savings of, you know, 60, 64%. >>Um, we can get eight times better density. You're running more in a, in a, in a cluster and, um, you know, reduction in memory up to 90% as well. So it's, these are significant changes now. That's all good, you know, saving, saving 60, 60% on your operational costs is significant. But what we find is that most organizations, they come for the performance and the optimizations, but what actually stay for is the speed of development. So I think, I think caucus real silver bullets is, um, the developer productivity, you know, for organizations, the cost of development is still one of the major costs. I mean, the operational costs, the hosting costs a significant, but development costs, time to market will always be top of mind for organizations that are trying to move faster than the competition. And I think that's really where, um, um, caucus special and coupled in, uh, in, uh, OpenShift or Coobernetti's environment really, really does shine. Yeah, >>It's pretty interesting. So people can go to corcus.io and see a lot of the statistics that you just referenced in terms of memory usage and speed and, and whole bunch of stuff. But what struck me when I went to the site was that was this big, uh, uh, two words that jumped out developer joy. And it's funny that you talked on that just now about really, um, the benefits that come to the developer directly to make them happier. I mean, really calling out their joy. So they're more productive and ultimately that's what you said. That's where the great value is in terms of speed of deployment, happy developers, and productive developers. You know, Miguel, you get your, you get down into the weeds of this stuff. Again, the presentations on your LinkedIn, everyone needs to go look and you talk a lot about at migration and you lot talk a lot about app modernization. So without going through all 120 some odd slides that I think you have, which is good, phenomenal information, what are some of the top things that people need to think about and consider both for app modernization as well as at migration? >>Um, that's, that's, that's an interesting question. Uh, the thing is that, um, the tolling is important on the current code is, and the thing is that normally when, when we started migration project, we tried to find architects in the applications to be able to find patterns. You know, you find parents is much easier because, uh, once you solve one part on the same part on can be solved in a very similar way. So this is one of the parts of that. We focus a lot, but before getting to that point, it's very important how you stop, you know, so the assessment phase is, is very important to be able to review well, what is the status of the applications, the context of the applications. And with that, I mean, things like, for example, the requirements that they have, there's the maintenance that they take in their resiliency and so on. >>So you have to prepare very well, the project by starting with a good assessment, you have to check which applications makes more, make more sense to start with and see which, how to group them together by similarities. And then you can start with the project that saying, okay, let's go for these set of applications that make more sense that are more likely to be containerized because of the way we are developing them because of the dependencies that they have because of the resiliency that is already embedded into them and so on. So that, that the methodology is important. And we normally, for example, when we, when we help partners do a application migration, one of the things that we stress is that this is the methodology that we follow and in the website for my vision, totally for application, you can find also, um, methodology, uh, part that, uh, could help, uh, people understand, okay, these, these are the stages that we normally follow to be successful with migrating applications. >>Yeah. Let go. You don't, we're not friends. We don't hang out a lot, but if we did, you would know I never ever recommend PowerPoint for anything. So, so the fact that I'm calling out your PowerPoint actually means something. Cause I think it's the worst application ever built, but you got some tremendous, tremendous information in there and people do need to go in and look, and again, it's all from your LinkedIn work, but I wanted to shift gears a little bit, right? We're at CubeCon cloud native con. Um, obviously it's virtual is 2020. That's the way the world today. But I just curious to get your guys' take on, on what does this, uh, event mean for you obviously really active, open source community, you know, red hat has a long open-source history. Um, what does CubeCon cloud native con mean for you guys? What do you hope to get out of it? What should people hope to, uh, to learn from red hat? >>Yeah, we, um, yeah, we're, we're buying your DNA. We're very, very collaborative. Uh, we, we love to learn from our customers, users of the technologies, um, in the communities that we support. Um, speaking as a, you know, we're both product guys, there's nothing better than getting with, um, people that actually use the products, um, in anger, in real life, whether they're products are upstream technologies, learning, learning, what they're doing, understanding where, um, some of the gaps are there's. Um, yeah, we just couldn't do our jobs without engaging with developers, users in these kind of conferences. Yeah. A lot of the, um, love interest we've seen with coworkers is, is in the community, you know, um, like I'd been part of many, many successful open source projects, um, um, over red hat. And it's great when your customers, you know, like, uh, Vodafone, Greece or Carrefour in Spain are openly publicly talking about how good your technology is, what they're using it for. And that's really good. So it's just nothing, there's no alternative that, you know, whether it be virtual virtually or physically sitting down with, uh, with users of your technology, >>How about you, Miguel? What are you hoping to get out of, uh, out of the show this year? >>Um, we are working a lot with, on Kubernetes in red hat, on, uh, as part of the community, of course. And, um, I mean, there are so many new stuff that is coming around, Kubernetes that, uh, it's mostly about it, about all the capabilities that were arming, especially for example, several lists, you know, several lessons, there is an important topic with crackers, because for example, as you make the application stopped so much faster and react so much faster, you could have known of them running and just waiting for an event to happen, which saves a lot of resources and makes us super efficient. So this is one of the topics, for example, that we wanted to cover in this edition, you know, how we are implementing serverless with Kubernetes and OpenShift and many other things like pipelines. Like, I don't know, we just had quite a visit in the, uh, uh, video, uh, life of what is coming up. I see for the six. And I recommend people to take a look at it, to get everything that's new because there's a lot. Yeah, >>Yeah. You guys are technical people. You've been doing this for a long time. Why is Kubernetes so special? W Y Y you know, there's been containers in the past, right. And we've seen other kind of branded open source projects that got a lot of momentum, but Kubernetes just seems to be blowing everybody out of the out of its path. Why, what should people know about Kubernetes that aren't necessarily developers? >>Yeah, there's really nothing interesting about a single container or a single microservice, right? That's not, that's not the kind of environment that, um, real organizations live in. They live in organizations where they're going to have hundreds of services, um, who just containers and you need a technology to orchestrate and manage that in that complex environment. And Kubernete's has just quickly become the, the district per standard. Um, yeah, folks are red hat jumped on my very, very early, um, I mean, one of the advantages around her have is where we're embedded with developers and open source communities. We often have a pretty good, it gives us a pretty good crystal ball. So we're often quick to jump on the emerging technologies that are coming out of open source. And that's exactly what happened with Cubanetis. It was clear. It was, um, you're going to be sophisticated for our, you know, most, um, most sophisticated customers running at scale. Um, but, but also, you know, great for development environments as well. So it really a good fit for, uh, where we were headed and, you know, just very, very quickly became the fact that standard. And you, you just gotta go with the de facto standard. Right, right. >>Right. Well, the another thing that you mentioned rich in that other interview that I was watching is it came up the conversation in terms of managing open source projects. And at some point, you know, they kind of start, and then, you know, I think this one, if I go to corcus and look at the bottom of the page sponsored by red hat, but you talked about, you know, at some point, do you move it over to a foundation, um, you know, and kind of what are the things that kind of drive that process, that decision, um, and, you know, I would imagine that part of it has to do with popularity and scale, is that something, you know, potentially down the road, how do you think that you said you've been in lots of open source projects, when does it move from, you know, kind of single point of origin to more of a foundational support? >>Yeah. I mean, in fact the foundation's owner was necessary. Um, you know, when you have a, yeah. If you, if you have a, an open, very open project with, um, um, clear, clear rules for collaboration and kind of the encouragement or others to collaborate and be able to, you know, um, move the project and, you know, the foundation as low as necessarily what we've seen, I've been part of the no GS world where, you know, the, the community reached Belden to keep no GS moving forward. Um, we had to go from a, what we call a benevolent dictator for life, somebody who's well-intentioned, but, um, yeah, we're on stone, the technology, so a foundation, which is much more inclusive and, um, you know, greater collaboration and you can move even quicker. So, you know, um, I think what's required is, is open governance for open source projects and where that doesn't happen. You know, maybe a foundation is, is the right way forward. Right, right now with, with caucus, um, you know, the, the non red hat developers seem pretty happy with the way they can get, uh, get engaged and contribute. Um, but if we get to a point where the community is demanding a foundation and we'll absolutely consider it, that's the best project we'll do. >>So, so we're, we're coming to the end of our time. I want to give you each the last word, really with two questions, one again, you know, just kind of a summary of, of, uh, of CubeCon cloud, native con, you know, what should people be looking for, uh, find you, and, and, and I don't know if you guys are sponsoring any sessions, I'm sure there's a lot of great content. If you want to highlight one or two things. And then most importantly, as we turn the calendars, we come to the end of 2020, uh, thankfully, um, as you look ahead to 2021, you know, what are some of your priorities, uh, as, as we get ready to turn the turn, the calendar, and Miguel let's start with you. >>So, um, I mean, we have been working very hard this year on the migration, took it for applications to help her every user that is using Java to bring the two containers. You know, whether it is data IE or these crackers, but we're putting like a lot of effort in crackers. And now we are bringing in new rules. And, uh, by the, by December, we expect to have the new version of the migration looking for applications that is going to include the, all the bulls to help developers bring their, their code to the Java code, to, to carcass. And, uh, on this, this is the main goal for us right now. We are moving forward to the next year to include more, more capabilities in that project. Everything's up on site. You can go to the conveyor, uh, project and ticket on, uh, on the up capabilities for the assessment phase. So whenever any partner, any, any of our consultants are working on, on migration or anyone that would like to go and try it themselves on adopted, would like to do these migrations to the cloud native world, uh, will feel comfortable with, with this tool. So that is our main goal in, in my, in my team. >>All right. And how about you rich? >>Yeah, I think we're going to see this, um, um, kind of syllabus solidification kind of web of, um, microservices. Um, you know, if you like hate that, I'm sorry, but I'm just going to next generation microservice. There's going to be, as Miguel mentioned, is gonna be based around, um, uh, native, um, advancing, um, serverless functions. I think that's really the, the, the ideal architecture, the building March services, um, on, on Coobernetti's and caucus plays really, really well there. Um, I think there's, there's a, there's a kind of backlog of projects, um, within organizations that, um, you know, hopefully next year, everything really does start to crank up. And I think, um, yeah, I think a lot of the migration that Miguel has talked about is going to be, is going to rise in terms of importance. So app modernization, taking those existing applications, maybe taking aspects of those and, you know, doing some kind of decomposition in some microservices using caucus and a native, I think we'll see a lot of that. So I think we'll see a real drive around both the kind of Greenfield, um, applications, uh, you know, this next generation of microservices, as well as pulling those existing applications forward into these new environments, don't give an answers. So it's going to be excellent. >>Awesome. Well, thank you both for taking a few minutes with us and sharing the story of corcus, uh, and have a great show. Great to see you and a really good the conversation. All right. He's Miguel, he's rich. I'm Jeff. You're watching the cubes ongoing coverage of CubeCon cloud native con 2020 North America. Virtual. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of next level network experience event brought to you by info blocks. >>Welcome back to our coverage. The Cube. I'm John Furrier, your host. We're here with a virtual event with info blocks on next level networking. It's a virtual event hosted with the Cube of great guests Kenya Asuni, who is the EVP of products and corporate development with info blocks today. Thank you for coming on. Appreciate it. You guys are the theme of this is next level networking, which I love. Next level, it really kind of illustrates we are going to the next level with Cove in 19. We're seeing it everywhere security DNS topic that most people aren't familiar with. An i t. You know all about it. You guys are leading and reinventing d I for the folks that I want to know what that is. It's DNS de HCP and I p address management for the hybrid cloud and borderless enterprise, which is basically everything. Now, um, this is super super important. As we see every single company living this right now, which is workforce is working from home workplaces that are transforming the surface area is huge. You still got to connect to the Internet. You still need to go to a website and you still do. E commerce needs to run your business. This is a huge, huge problem that's been highlighted. Secure access there you guys are in the forefront for next gen or networking. Tell us what you define as next level. >>So, John, I think one of the things you'll see is if you, if you look at the train, is happening in our business, that is, there's an increasing adoption of SAS services, whether it's infrastructures of service being consumed from AWS, azure, Google or all the idea applications moving into SAS, you're already seeing a shift away from this data center. Being the center of the university in the Enterprise, I t infrastructure to more of a cloud edge world where a lot of the applications now sit in the cloud some in your private cloud still but a lot in the public cloud. And then you have your enterprise edge from where you want to get to these applications directly instead of back calling all the traffic into your traditional data center. We're also seeing a big push into the number of devices coming into the infrastructure, whether it be by Odie Iot G five GS or more devices coming into the infrastructure. As you said, that perimeter and the surface area of the enterprise has exploded. So you have to You have to start to think about security from a different standpoint. So all of these trends are starting to play out in the market. I think what you're going to see is over the next couple of years that the the network inside the Enterprise is gonna look very different from ordered yesterday. Today, everything gets back to the data center, and that's where all the action's. I think what you're going to see is a big shift towards what we call a hybrid multi cloud enterprise, where you may have some workloads sitting in your data center. Some workloads sitting in public clouds, some in your private cloud, and then you want the ability to move these workloads around and you're utilizing everything all your applications. You're actually continue rising all your applications, and you want all this stuff to move around so it poses a very interesting challenge. And that's why we say you need a next level network experience to deal with all the changes that you, their enterprises, are going to it. >>That's a great point. This is our top story that we've been reporting for a long time but rose recently with code 19. This notion of multiple networks, multiple environments, multiple clouds. Certainly hybrid cloud has been ratified. Everyone pretty much acknowledges that cloud operations on premises to the cloud of their. But you got to still move packets from A to B moving around, and now you're storing them and all kinds of things are happening. But I want to get your thoughts on a trend that even makes what you just said even more complex because the complexity is crazy. Right now, there's a trend of managed services. Cloud explosion comes on. You mentioned SAS more coming or deploying a managed services, sometimes multi tenant, sometimes pure instances in the cloud or on premises and data center that's causing access. I still want to integrate that into a Web presence. So, you know, I gotta integrate all these things. It's not that easy. Now. Again, DNS has been a big part of the Web presence But now you have a new dimension of hosted applications. You have managed services that that are easy to stand up. But now I gotta integrate them. This is one of the hardest challenge is that we're here, and I want to get your thoughts in reaction to that. Yeah, >>and I think Google has certainly accelerated the shift that we talked about. So I think a good point there in terms of your school reacting is there is a big accelerant in terms of the shift of the cloud. I think one of the the key role that we play as the enterprise gets much more dynamic is you need three elements you need the element to be to get visibility into everything that's going on in your cluster, you need to provide a layer of security of foundational security in your infrastructure and you need automation because then you have workloads moving around. You need to automate all your idea. Simple flows around allocating. I p address system is VMS or containers on moving as containers. Moving our retaining I P addresses assigning your i P addresses managing DNS records for them. So the work we do that dd I there really becomes the life blood of how this hybrid multi cloud enterprise comes along. And as you get to a much more distributed I T infrastructure, you are not going to be able to manage this entire infrastructure yourself the traditional. So if you have an enterprise idea administrator, you cannot sit there and say, Look, I'm gonna do the traditional model of deploying software on premise or appliances on premise, and I love my guys going out there and managing the administration of that software every six months after do a software upgrade and I'll do all that. What you need, because the enterprise has become so distributed in dynamic, is you need a cloud managed or a managed services. In either case, basically, what you see what you're looking at is a centralized management more and the ability to spin up and down the services Dynamically. We are strong believers in sass or a cloud managed approach and a cloud native architecture being the right architecture for the next level network. And that is something from a delivery standpoint and MSP can use. A managed service provider can leverage this flower manage architecture that we have to offer the services to enterprise customers and take away the whole headache off, managing and administering their own infrastructure. >>I like how you said dd I layer because there's an abstraction you can create the take away that complexity that was pretty straight forward. The best yet. DNS dhc p I p I p addresses. Okay, you manage those cases? No problem Naming whatnot. Now. You have a dynamic environment. That's key. I want to get back to and follow up what you said about the I t folks, your customers in the Enterprise. They're sitting there saying, Hey, I'm used to the on premises world and I have cloud What's the difference in your mind between on premises and cloud managed d D I and why does it matter? >>Look, I think in the traditional world, all the i t infrastructure it again was sitting in one or more regional or or regional or centralized data centers and that it was easy to manage. You could appliances from info blocks and now and it was easy. You had the folks sitting in these data centers and they could manage the entire infrastructure using someone premise management tools and things of that nature. But now I think about it. If you're if you're Walmart and you have 4500 stores right now, if you want to push DNS d A T v i p address management software into all these 5500 locations, it is very difficult to do that by deploying individual appliances or by deploying sort of shrink wrap software that has to sit in every every one of these locations. It's just from an idea administration standpoint. It's a it's a much heavier lift. But if I could take all the management and all the policy management that the policy framework and pull that up into a SAS lower that you can access from anywhere on the planet and I'll leave the protocol serving engines, if you will, on premise. So you have a container that gets spun up that can sit on any third party hardware that's sitting at your infrastructure. But it is all managed through the cloud it zero touch provisioning Andi, completely orchestrator. Now you're sitting at us at a central dashboard, and if you're in a corporate environment, you're sitting at home and just accessing our SAS service and managing your entire infrastructure from from from your from your home from your our checked at your home. Right? So it just becomes so much easier for idea administrators to operate. And I >>have so much free time on their hands to be the Watches virtual event. So be fun. There certainly >>do Stash stash. That's a great >>point. I want to get your thoughts because I like how you know I love the term next level. Anything going, the next level has been something that you talk about, whether you're a technical person and an entrepreneur or a business person. Let's go the next level. It means go the next level. But you add the word experience in there, and I want to get your thoughts on that because it is about the user experience. What >>do you >>guys do to provide that what info blocks provide specifically to provide that next level experience? >>Yeah, that's a great question. We are formed believers again that the future of networking and security in I T. Is going to shift to a cloud managed cloud native paradigm, which means you should be able to just like the hyper skaters. AWS is the Googles and Amazons of the world, right? If you look at how they build out their cloud infrastructure, it's all about separating the infrastructure layers of the compute layer from the applications that sit on top of them. So the compute nodes can scale at a difference at a different pace from that from the applications. That same mindset needs to come into into managing networking and security services as well. So if you have 1000 different educations, lets you can decide through a centralized policy framework what services you want to spin up a lease 1000 locations. Today you would have to buy a box, a small medium large box from info blocks or any one of the networking guys out there, and you would have to deploy that. And most likely, you will end up over provisioning each site because you don't want to run out of capacity. The next level experience would say, Just tell me what side you're deploying. The sites will call home. They will download the number of services needed based on some centralized policy that was defined, and you would get a right size deployment off services at that particular site. You need more services because, say, the user profile, that the profile of the users at that site change, which means you need to spend a Let's, say, a couple of additional security services. Well, that gets automatically imported from the cloud and gets incense created in that particular site. If you need more capacity because it's end of the quarter and you're doing a whole bunch of peer some financial contractions for closing the books, you need more capacity for some of the security applications. Those additional containers with those security applications can can get spun up, so you're starting to scale out as you need and scale back when you don't need the capacity. But this whole thing becomes a very dynamic experience in terms of how services get spun up. They get on down, and it's all driven by. There's this whole notion off the users that are sitting in a location, the context of the users of what devices they're trying to access these applications from what, what is the time of the day? How is the security profile of that device you bring all that know how into the house services get provisioned and how services get operationalized at any particular site in any particular enterprise. Rights are very simple experience when it comes to networking and security, and how do you deploy it at scale? >>And the thing that that sets up is what you're saying really about automation, because once you're in this mode in this experience, the environment lends itself well to automation because it is downloading the right services you need. But since it's dynamic and it needs to be ready, how does automation fit into that piece? >>Absolutely, if you disaster management is already automated for you now if you want to drive further automation and orchestration through integration with your Dev ops, SEC ops, Net ops tools, we have public FBI's through which this this can be driven. There's two ways to manage this right. We have a Cloud Services portals. If somebody wanted to go in and leverage our porter to manage their infrastructure, they can't do that. If they wanted this to be completely programmatic and driven through their their dev ops SEC ops tools, then through the public AP guys, we will tightly integrated into all the tools they have, whether it's sensible data forms some of the Dev ops tools or on the security side. If you want to integrate us into your store platform security orchestration, platforms, you can do that. And your entire workflow for networking as well as security can be completely, completely automated. >>That's awesome. I want to get as we get limited time left and you got to go. We have to hard stop with segment here. Customer example. I'll see customers have a need for this. You're in business to do this. Can you give an example of a customer? That kind of illustrates the next level networking >>we have. We have 6000 plus active customers. We have over 50% share when it comes to this DNS DCP eye Pam market. So you will see has deployed and have you deployed in 95. Out of the Fortune 100 enterprises in four blocks is some someone you will see in any customer that you that you go through. We have some public references such as Adobe, a great customer of ours on our website. They, their entire global network, runs on the foundational layer of D. I. We have some very large customers that are not as comfortable being public references, but we have again. If you have 95 of the Fortune 100 enterprises want you, you can imagine how sticky VR how broadly deployed we are. Typically, what happens is we would go in and we would go in as the FBI there for them to control and manage that I p address space and their DNS infrastructure. Then they take on more off. They take on a security lens at this and say, Look through the http and eye Pam, I know everything that is sitting in my infested toe, DNS. I have full visibility into all the communication happening from that employer. So that's a great data source for me to leverage as a first layer of defense from a security stand. So then they start to bring in security into the into the mix in terms of how they leverage our products and then through our SAS platforms and SAS offerings. They take that and extended as they're driving this edge transformation. So they push these services now to the edge of the infrastructure so and that the new infant, the new offerings are blocks one platform is our SAS platform and blocks one based applications on our new offerings that integrates very nicely with some of our traditional offerings. So you get a very comprehensive single pane of glass in terms of how you can manage your entire enterprise footprint, whether it's it's on prim at the edge, in the public cloud at the cloud edge, right? >>You know, having a good business model that puts abstractions and reduces complexity is is a great one. We've seen the innovation with DNS and anything that needs an Internet address. You got to connect, and I o. T only creates more need for connection. This is the key enterprises know DNS. They know it differently that it's the plumbing we all know. But every time there's an innovation inflection point, a new abstraction layer emerges for simplicity, ease of use. >>DNS is the phone book of the end of off the Internet. Right, So you want to call anywhere you have to first, your DNS. Look up and you brought up I o t. That's a great example. You're not going to be able to put in these eye ot sensors. You're not going to be able to put endpoint security software, but they're going to call home so you can leverage DNS and do some behavioral analysis of the DNS. Traffic coming out of those Iot. The sensors are I ot endpoints and say, Hey, look, is there something militias going on? Why is my thermostat talking to a server in China? You can detect that to a DNS based security earlier that this foundational >>and to your point, whether it's a light bulb or anything untested device, they're being turned on and turned off all the time at massive scale. There's no other way to handle it, but having abstraction and automation. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time. Great segment. We're here at the info blocks. Virtual event. This is the cube coverage. I'm John Furrier. Thanks for watching. Thank you, John. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>law from Las Vegas. It's the Q covering A ws re invent 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is and in along with its ecosystem partners. >>Welcome back to Vegas. It's the Cube, live from AWS reinvent 19. Lisa Martin here with John Walls and John. We've been hanging out with about 65,000 folks, or so >>just are best friends. But Wade talked about this just a little bit ago, but I really have impressed again with kind of discontinued energy and focus, and you know it's gonna go well beyond the show. But three days of back to back to back Great presentations, Great programming obviously show for still jam packed a really good show. Hats off Day W s >>absolutely right. The energy has not wavered one bit. And oftentimes, by day three, that challenge. There's so much excitement >>not out here, >>not in Vegas. Don and I are pleased to welcome a couple of guests to the Cube. To my left, we've got Jen Doyle, the VP of operations from one strategy, and Ricardo Madan, VP of technology products and service is from Texas is I got all right, give me carte Blanche on how to pronounce that, By the way. So guys, one strategy and Techsystems general store with you give her audience and understanding of one strategy. What you guys are way you deliver. Yeah, so we >>are a eight of us. Born in the cloud, dedicated partner of our Amazon Web service is we're premier consulting partner who focuses exclusively on delivering to our customers high quality. Eight of US expertise across industries. Yeah, so because we're exclusively in aid of us, it's a cost industries and pretty agnostics for customer size scale. So we have that unique capability to really dive deep on being the experts on the eight of us when our customers are the experts of their own business >>and tech systems. >>So tech systems Global Service is we are a full stack technology consulting professional service is GS I global system integrator on. We really pay attention to that term full stack because we cover every facet of the software systems operation have life cycle. But increasingly, in the last couple of years, what has been the heart and soul of our ecosystem of confidences and practices and capabilities has been cloud and even more so has been a W s, which is one of the reasons that we're super excited about coming together with one strategy. >>Cloud. Obviously, it's not. It's not a thing. It's the thing, right? So So we kind of moved that passed that when people come to your clients come to you and they will understand that this cloud experience, especially if they're if they're native cloud right there. Not not a legacy, not bringing stuff over. But they're gonna want to launch what's kind of the checklist that the preliminary of that elementary looked at you do to assess what their needs are, what they're like. It's what their opportunities are and kind of how you get them to start faking about exactly what they want to get done, because I assume it's It's a big shoulder hunch and a lot of questions about where do we go from here? So how do you get them to, I guess, oriented toward that conversation in that discussion, >>Yeah, so a lot of the way good place to start is just a really understand their business right now. It's no longer just a IittIe side of the house kind of discussion it's a whole business. So our first step is really to dive deep and understand their business schools, their culture and what their actual end goal is going to be. And so we have a really great part program that we partner with eight of us called the eight of US Well-architected Review program, which we were really fortunate to be one of the top initial partners selected for the beta program a few years ago and then a launch partner for them when they went public last year to really dive deep in, be able to figure out exactly what are they doing? What do they want to be doing and how to get there both on scale, vertically and horizontally, howto costs save and how to really make sure when they're doing it they're doing in a year fashion. >>And where are those conversations happening? Are they happening at the White Sea level, or is it really up, as Andy Jassy was talking about Tuesday? These types of transformations have to come from the executive senior level. Are you having these conversations with the heads of business? We've really been >>seeing that kind of transformation, and it's been phenomenal. Where that change in culture is no longer just the I t side of the house, it is senior leadership. Like Andy, Jassy said. It's now a holistic business approach where you need that alignment in the senior leadership down and that inclusivity in that kind of far and a lot of our conversations, you're getting everybody really buying into the eight of us cloud initiatives that are going on and keep me honest. I know on your side as well. Tech is experiencing a lot of that same thing >>indeed, in the wayto kind of, I guess, divide and conquer the vectors from where we lean in tow, handle those conversations and prioritize the needs and even deal with the different audiences Lisa, like you're talking about because, like Enterprise, I T owners and business owners, ultimately they care about making the business better, but they're approaching it from different lenses and a W s language. There is a methodology in a mindset called working backwards, and it really is the process of beginning with those goals those business goals that Jen talked about in framing them up just super tight. Before we talk about how many lines of code or how many servers are gonna be preventing. We don't want to even get into that. So we've got that really good flowing understanding of the quantified needs and howto really kind of celebrate what that is and then work backwards from there. That the conference Because it's such an all encompassing conversation, especially with enterprises that air nascent to the cloud, they've only dip their toe in the water. Kind of like what What Andy was talking about during his keynote a couple days ago uh, are specific methodology. Under working backwards, we break it up into two pieces. One is called Think big and one is called Act Now and act Now. Starting from there is usually for the folks, and that's like the technology solution there. Fluent enough, they're lucid enough and what their business is going to get out of cloud and out of a migration and out of native development. All that good stuff so we can kind of go right surgically in tow. Hey, how did we just make you better? Based on our combined expertise and our experience? Think big is a little bit more involved, kind where the question was going because you're thinking about O C M. Organizational change management. And how does that culture really In Stan? She ate itself to move fast and be agile and think in a lean way. And, oh, repurpose lots of skills and lots of roles that kind of go extinct after a while. So how do we take in all this? Great talents unorganised ation and UPS killed him. And next gen them to really operate inside of this new cloud ecosystem. >>So you're talking about really organizationally this leadership holster change or shift, if you will, Taking ownership of it from the very top. How do you characterized maybe what that mindset looks like today, as opposed to maybe 45 years ago? It's so easy to put it over. You know, just throw it over the I t guys and developers, and we're gonna focus on our marketing and our sales that we're going to know that you know that the C suite is there, right? Much more president, These kind of discussions. Yeah, you have to have that. Do you know >>how >>to drive that kind of fundamental change? >>For sure. I think a lot of it has to do with the accessibility that AWS Cloud is really bringing to the industry where it's now in such a easily integrating way and your entire business. It's sea level. As you say, down to the interns can have that same accessibility using that tool box. The eight of us allows for them to really jump in hands first and start making things right away. You could be spinning up instances within seconds. It's so simple for people at all levels of knowledge. It's not just the 20 years of I t. That could be the only ones to understand what's going on anymore. >>What are some of the barriers that AWS and Cloud are have removed that 5 10 years ago, customers were concerned with ABC that now those barriers have been mitigated, not be new barriers. But what about the evolution that you've seen A W s really sort of fuel, >>so that way could even think back to some of what What John you were talking about? The kind of erstwhile mindset was a very big iron one. You didn't really look ATT technology and I t as anything more than a utility. Now it's a competitive advantage. Not now you have. That's why you know, you have this whole concept of being a digital native and digital transformation. All these big words. They get so much air time. But that's really been an acceptance in an adoption that technology has gotten to the point where we're moving quicker, better faster is a function of celebrating CX customer experience and enhancing it and using technology to really make organizations move quicker, move faster, adopt new features into whatever their products that is, whether it's online or whether it's packaged whatever. And it's so I think those barriers that AWS has really kind of bubbled up to the surface and then sifted off has been that integration into the business. And that, that is, that's been a transformation that no other company has really enabled outside of AWS for years. Think about like Gartner and forced or an I. D. C. They would talk about the number one objective right is to be aligned with the business, but always in like a subservient role that was more of a foot forward in a leadership role that you see inside of these organizations >>used to be all those of the I t guys. >>Yeah, that's >>what the I t. Guys. Right? I mean, home on the whole thing. Saved. Go. If you look forward, then when you sit down with whomever and you're trying to walk them through their process and get evaluated, What their needs aren't so on so forth. What's the biggest hurdle you gotta get over with down somebody to say, You've got to be You've got to be totally present. This is your your i t offering should be. You should be cloud or your hybrid multi whatever you might be. But you got to be cloud What's the big challenge there? You think you really get somebody jumping in the deep end? >>Honestly, I would really say it's the culture change right now. It's been such a huge digital transformation. You can't deny that. But the culture transformation that's going along with that has really been phenomenal. And that's a lot of people who are at that point of starting their cloud journey, are starting to realize they have to change the way that they look at everything it, as you mentioned several times. It's not just the technical side anymore. It is the business side, and that's the big culture shift of getting over that. There's a lot of technical debt in there, with all the on creme in different areas that people have invested in. And honestly, right now, the day of lift and shift is gonna is kind of going away. It's all of the new cloud. Benefits, like surveillance and containers is really going to be revolutionary, but that education and enabling it really needs to be more prevalent in everybody's vocabulary. And not just the I t. Guy who could tell you about it. It needs to be the sea level, the enablers, the stakeholders in the middle that really understand what's going on. >>So could you talk to us about one strategy and tech systems coming together tell us a little bit about that, what you're doing together and how you might be an eight, an enabler of that cultural transformation that is absolutely linchpin. >>So there's that that enabler on that accelerator t kind of that that change and not to overuse the word accelerator. But that's just kind of one vector that we can talk about a little bit, and it's really what we're encouraging our customers to look at because they've got a broad choice of size of system integrators like us. But if you're not coming to the table with really depth of expertise, depth of expertise, that can help mute a lot of the complexity that were alluding to. Because even even though we've got so many benefits and so much growth happening inside the Ws world, there's 175 service is today. There have been 2500 feature updates releases across that portfolio Just this year alone, there's 5 to 10 new announcement today and then outside of the Ws stack, you've got hundreds and hundreds of other members of the Dev Ops Tool chain. They get bolted into that so that you know the way that we're kind of getting customers to overcome. Some of that reticence is by muting a lot of that, simplifying it and coming to the table with real accelerators, where we've invested collectively hundreds of thousands of lines of code that we've built and put together for AWS proprietary tools for better adoption, whether it's database freedom and getting like kick started off of your legacy oppressed database environments and into the the purpose built platforms inside of a W s, whether it's micro service's libraries and frameworks that we built for customers to help them start to decompose. Some of those those big, expensive, you know, high technical debt applications that General was talking about into micro service is to containerized to make him run faster in the cloud. So that's, you know, that's where we're leaning in from, Uh, not just with the expertise and the combined resume of hundreds of awesome engagements that we've moved customers to the cloud in and hundreds and hundreds of terabytes that we've moved. But it's it's doing it in a way where the customer knows that they've got a real leader here with them, side by side in the journey. And it doesn't happen in one or two conversations. I mean, this is going on across many different settings and demos and think big sessions like like we were talking about. It takes, it takes some time. >>Yeah, I mean that I think the combined family of Texas one strategy will really be phenomenal for our customers. 48% of the market right now is using AWS cloud and to keep up with that scale of innovation and growth. Just to be able to do that, businesses need eight of US experts and that's who we are. It's in our name our. We have one focus, one strategy and that's eight of us. We are developed based on the same agile, lean leadership principles the eight of us has and with the several competencies that we have. Such a Czar Data and Analytics Machine Learning Dev. Ops Migration Way have a proven track record of not only being the AWS experts but being able to be agile and grow with that same speed that eight of us ours to keep up with the training our teams on that expertise. And I think with tech systems, global footprint and ability to find these amazing talent combined with our skill set, we will be able to create a larger geographical footprint to deliver to our customers in a way that they will not only see our ability to deliver what they're doing but exceed their expectations. >>I imagine the amount of engagement that you're gonna have after an event like this three days you mentioned there after 175 service is that AWS is delivery the volume of announcements. It's incredibly challenging to keep up with that. Plus, there's 2500 sessions. You know, customers can't go to that many. So imagine there's gonna be a lot of leaning on one started Genentech systems to say, Help us deconstruct, deconstruct this digest all the opportunities here. So you guys air. I'm sure going to be very busy after this event. But we thank you for joining John and me today and telling us what you guys were doing individually and collectively together. We appreciate it. Thank you so much for our pleasure. For John. Walls were out. Vegas, baby, this has been the Cube. This is the end of our third day of continuous coverage of lots of stuff going on aws reinvent John. It's been a blast hosting a few segments with you >>as always. >>Nice job. See you next time. >>Thanks for having >>All right. I will see you next time. Thanks for watching

>>Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering my groin insight 2019 brought to you by micron. >>We're back at pier 27 in San Francisco. This is the cube, the leader in live tech coverage and we're covering micron insight 2019 I'm Dave Vellante with my cohost David Floyd and this event is kind of interesting. David, it basically intersperses cube interviews with big tent discussions, thought leadership, we've heard from automotive, healthcare and and 5g discussions and no Han is here. He's the vice president and CTO of the emerging business at Erickson. And you were just on a panel. Welcome to the cube. Thanks. Great to be here. You were talking about five G, we're going to talk about five G. so first of all, talking about the emerging business at Ericsson, >>your whole group, you know, so Ericsson, we, you know, 99 a lot of our business today has done what operators emerging business group, we're sort of looking at the intersection of industry, cloud computing, our traditional mobile network operator customers, and how do we, how do we put those together and look for new either products or business models. And really create something new for customers. >>So we tell him when he's talking about five G, everybody gets all excited. Certainly the technology community is excited about it. There's a whole value chain and an ecosystem that's that's pumping right along. The carriers are adopting and the users are just waiting. So what should we know about? >>So I, you know, I think there's a couple of different things. One is from a consumer perspective, you're definitely looking at faster, you know, better. All of the things we've got from the other GS at older things. You know, today, you know, faster downloads of movies. I think what we're, and I'm, I'm in the tech business, not in the prediction business, you know. So I think what we've learned from previous technologies is we almost don't know what the new applications are. We're trying to make the platform as easy as possible for developers to utilize what the network actually has to offer. So I think that's a big part of what we're trying to do. The other part is enhancing what you have today as a consumer is massive, but also industries is a huge pull on 5g. So we talked about industry four. Dot. Zero and really transforming industries and cutting the cables in production lines, allowing monitoring of systems that never happened before. >>A lot of use cases that can be out there. So a, I have a younger son of 22 and I look at my a bill every month. Yeah, I do have him downloading 10 times more data. It doesn't fill me with uh, duty or just the excise to carriers. I mean while we've seen with every, every end. And of course that was the question how much of a down, yeah, how much low is the price going to be on this baffled breeze you go to invest an awful lot. Absolutely. So I mean we're going to see it tens, 10 orders of magnitude cheaper. So even as it is now with 4g, we're seeing a lot of the unlimited plans coming available and so on. I think we're just going to see more of that. And then the question, actually a big question for five G is what will you pay for? >>You know, if we talk about age compute and low latency, if you're a gamer and I can give you X milliseconds of latency versus you know, a two X milliseconds, how much would you pay for that? So I think what we know at the moment is people will pay for that. We don't know exactly how much, and that's where you need the ecosystem and you need to get stuff out there. And actually some of the economic impact is fuzzy. But in thinking past, there's no prologue. But if you think about the other GS as they sort of were adopted, what can we learn from those? And how do you think five G will be different in terms of its adoption and economic impact? Let's say if you look at adoption, I mean just a number of contracts. We have the number of deployments we have globally, just off the charts in terms of where we are with 4g Korea launched and a few months ago, just just before the summer, within two months they had a million 5g subscribers with smart phones in their eyes and two months later they added a second million subscribers. >>I mean for a market to go from zero to that in, in that period of time with smartphones, if we go back to 4g, all of that was with dongles and sort of hotspots on routers, you know, so to jump directly to smartphones, huge adoption, it's going to happen fast. Well what do you, what are the sequence, what's the sequence of events that have to occur for adoption to really take off? >> So obviously you need to build out the networks and the operators are doing that are pretty high speed. You need to have the devices ready and all the devices. Now it's not like you have a 5g only device. It's obviously capable of all the four G things. And then it's better when you have 5g. So the devices are going to come and take and fast. So all your new devices, most of the high end devices have 5g capability already in there. >>Um, and then the networks just getting built out more and more. And then of course the application developers actually understanding how can I take advantage of those new capabilities? And then you'll start to see, okay, wow, you know, I didn't, this wasn't possible before. It's not just a faster download. It's really, there's just new experiences happening >> from a development standpoint. How much access do they have to the technology? Do they have to wait until this is all built out? Obviously not, but, but, but what's the status of sort of the devs? So we're, we're trying to, and we're working with a lot of the ecosystem. We have, we call it the D 15 studio in our Santa Clara office. We're bringing developers in there and really trying to understand, because you know, we talk Telekom as well. So we want to expose things. We want to understand, do you know what variable, if we say quality of service, what does that mean for you? You know, how do you translate that? So, and we're working with, you know, the cloud players where to developers live to some extent to bring in that ecosystem and understand how it all plays together. So >>ahead. Yup. Um, so if really, if you're looking at it longterm, obviously it's going to happen, but the experience is as I go around the States, is that you've got all these different four G three GS edges still in a very, very patchy a level of it. Is this going to be different? Is this going to actually go into different places because there's a big investment that has to be made, a lot of things very close together. Yes, yes. That seems to be a recipe for everything being or right in the cities. But as soon as you go outside the urban areas, it's going to be very patchy. How does that compare, for example, with Elon Musk's idea of a doing stuff from the sky? >>Well, everything comes down to economics. So you know, it's, it's obviously you're going to have denser deployments in the cities, then you are in the countryside and so on. One of the big advantages would 5g is am, and not to get too deep into the technical part, but you can use all the spectrum that's available. And spectrum is super important as we get, you know, when we have lower frequency spectrum, you can cover a hundred miles Wade, one base station as you get to the millimeter wave, which is you get super high bandwidth, then you're add hundreds of meters. Yeah. And so obviously one is more suitable for a rural environment, the other is more suitable for. So for an urban environment, so obviously having those working together in one technology allows you to deploy everything and get the benefits in a much broader area than we had for any of the previous. >>There's choice there in terms of how you deploy or, or leverage the spectrum. So you're saying that the higher performance end of the spectrum, it's gonna require a greater density of other components. And absolutely. When people talk about oil, there's going to be a lot more distributed, you know, pieces of the five G network that has to get built out. So who does that? Who's putting those pieces of the value chain in? So different players, obviously the mobile network operators, the 18 Ts and Verizons of the world are doing a lot of the heavy lifting and know what our support to actually put the, the radios and the towers in place. And then there's an edge compute piece as well, which is different players are putting in that. Um, so, so a lot of that infrastructure has been done. I think one thing that we've been pushing quite a lot, all our install base of radios is um, 5g upgradable via software. >>So that means that a lot of the already installed, uh, radios and infrastructure, you're just softer upgrade, you know, an hour later it's now 5g ready. So I think that's a big piece of basin. Back to your question of how quickly and and can reach all those areas, are there any specific commercial blockers that you see, um, that you're thinking through? I am I, I think the, just understanding some of the more challenging when you look at, if you're deploying edge compute and you have to invest billions and really getting that far out to the edge, I think there's some questions still there. Like I said, how much would you pay for 20 milliseconds versus 15 milliseconds. And that might sound like a lot, but that's a lot of extra infrastructure you would need to put out. So I think that's still being worked true. >>And obviously some of that will happen quicker in a downtown San Francisco than it will in a, you know, middle of Nevada plays well and the others that you've mentioned before, it's unclear what new applications are going to emerge here. And so it's almost like build it and they will come and then we'll figure it out and then we'll figure out how to charge for it. Like you say the gamers, how much will they pay for it? Yeah, so those are some of the uncertainties but they'll shake themselves out. So absolutely. I was a pretty smart about doing. What about micron and the role of memory players and storage players? How will this affect them? Eight say a huge opportunity when you ah, yeah, I mean invest no and Bardy hats. >> Yeah, I think it's a, when you look at the number of devices and, okay, what's the device? >>The devices are smartphone. Well the devices now your car, it's every IOT device and down to your toaster and all the crazy stuff people are talking about too. I mean to every industrial application tool that age, computers. So you're distributing now a lot of different compute memory storage across different parts of the network. So I mean they talked earlier in the panel about phones having terabytes of data. You know, it's in, it's just unimaginable. The amount of data storage. Remember you're going to need in a vehicle, you know, they're looking at terabytes per hour of data and then how much of that should they shift off the vehicle? How much did it keep there? So huge opportunity. >> Well, I'd be willing to pay for, um, some memory in my appliances. They tell me when they're going to break. I just got a new dishwasher and I can program it with my, my remote. I don't want to program. I just want to know that on Thanksgiving morning it was that it works. But in a week before it's going to break, I want to know so I can deal with vending and maintenance. That's a big use case. Can't wait until that happens. The last question, so >>I was going to be, I was following up on that last point you were making. Um, uh, so again, this cost of everything, this, this value that you're going to get out of it. Um, it seems to me that, um, that this is gonna take a long time to push out. Um, and, and before it actually down. And people will actually know whether they can pay for this. And then one thing in particular is there's a lot of resistance in, in the, in the States anyway, to all of these devices being put very, very close, you know, to the, to, to it for example, putting all the devices down, download a row for example, that, that, that seems to be very expensive and, and going to get a lot of reaction from consumers is, is that not the case? >>So I actually, we're not seeing it that much. I mean if you look across the globe, um, China obviously is a slightly unique situation. Massive deployments already happening there. Like I said, Southeast Asia, South Korea being among the, you know, the forefront, big deployments already there. And we're seeing big pull from industries already and the operators here in U S are announcing new cities, you know, every month practically. So they are really full on into this. And to some extent it's, it's really just, there's a capacity need to have the spectrum. They need to make the investments and they're, they're doing it as we speak. >>So I think it depends on me. Why was it a meeting the other day in Boston with a lot of city officials and folks that worked for the mayor's office? They're envisioning Boston, you know, for the next 50 years, smart cities and five G was like, if you did a word cloud 5g was that the number one topic? You know, we talked earlier about sports stadiums. You can see that being, you know, use cases going to be these >>hotspots where it's of very, very high >>of the city in this case in Boston's case are they're going to invest, right? And they're gonna think that's going to be a differentiator for cities. >>You have this amazing infrastructure, you know, five G infrastructure that allows you to take advantage of that, be it just from, they talked about traffic congestion and what the city can do and then what the businesses and the consumers can do in that area that that can end up being a differentiator for innovation companies going there and so on. >>Right. All right. We're going to go before they blow us out. No, thanks very much for coming to the queue very much. All right, great. To have you on. I keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest after this short break. You're watching the cube live from micron insight 2019 from San Francisco right back.

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California It is >> a cute conversation. Hey, welcome back. Get ready. Geoffrey here with the Cube. We're gonna rip out the studios for acute conversation. It's the middle of the summer, the conference season to slow down a little bit. So we get a chance to do more cute conversation, which is always great. Excited of our next guest. He's Ridge, IP, Ops Statik. He's a VP and GM from key. Cite, Reject. Great to see you. >> Thank you for hosting us. >> Yeah. So we've had Marie on a couple of times. We had Bethany on a long time ago before the for the acquisition. But for people that aren't familiar with key site, give us kind of a quick overview. >> Sure, sure. So I'm within the excess solutions group Exhale really started was founded back in 97. It I peered around 2000 really started as a test and measurement company quickly after the I poet became the number one vendor in the space, quickly grew around 2012 and 2013 and acquired two companies Net optics and an ooey and net optics and I knew we were in the visibility or monitoring space selling taps, bypass witches and network packet brokers. So that formed the Visibility Group with a nice Xia. And then around 2017 key cite acquired Xia and we became I S G or extra Solutions group. Now, key site is also a very large test and measurement company. It is the actual original HB startup that started in Palo Alto many years ago. An HB, of course, grew, um it also started as a test and measurement company. Then later on it, it became a get a gun to printers and servers. HB spun off as agile in't, agile in't became the test and measurement. And then around 2014 I would say, or 15 agile in't spun off the test and measurement portion that became key site agile in't continued as a life and life sciences organization. And so key sites really got the name around 2014 after spinning off and they acquired Xia in 2017. So more joy of the business is testing measurement. But we do have that visibility and monitoring organization to >> Okay, so you do the test of measurement really on devices and kind of pre production and master these things up to speed. And then you're actually did in doing the monitoring in life production? Yes, systems. >> Mostly. The only thing that I would add is that now we are getting into live network testing to we see that mostly in the service provider space. Before you turn on the service, you need to make sure that all the devices and all the service has come up correctly. But also we're seeing it in enterprises to, particularly with security assessments. So reach assessment attacks. Security is your eye to organization really protecting the network? So we're seeing that become more and more important than they're pulling in test, particularly for security in that area to so as you. As you say, it's mostly device testing. But then that's going to network infrastructure and security networks, >> Right? So you've been in the industry for a while, you're it. Until you've been through a couple acquisitions, you've seen a lot of trends, so there's a lot of big macro things happening right now in the industry. It's exciting times and one of the ones. Actually, you just talked about it at Cisco alive a couple weeks ago is EJ Computer. There's a lot of talk about edges. Ej the new cloud. You know how much compute can move to the edge? What do you do in a crazy oilfield? With hot temperatures and no powers? I wonder if you can share some of the observations about EJ. You're kind of point of view as to where we're heading. And what should people be thinking about when they're considering? Yeah, what does EJ mean to my business? >> Absolutely, absolutely. So when I say it's computing, I typically include Io TI agent. It works is along with remote and branch offices, and obviously we can see the impact of Io TI security cameras, thermal starts, smart homes, automation, factory automation, hospital animation. Even planes have sensors on their engines right now for monitoring purposes and diagnostics. So that's one group. But then we know in our everyday lives, enterprises are growing very quickly, and they have remote and branch offices. More people are working from remotely. More people were working from home, so that means that more data is being generated at the edge. What it's with coyote sensors, each computing we see with oil and gas companies, and so it doesn't really make sense to generate all that data. Then you know, just imagine a self driving car. You need to capture a lot of data and you need to process. It just got really just send it to the cloud. Expect a decision to mate and then come back and so that you turn left or right, you need to actually process all that data, right? We're at the edge where the source of the data is, and that means pushing more of that computer infrastructure closer to the source. That also means running business critical applications closer to the source. And that means, you know, um, it's it's more of, ah, madness, massively distributed computer architecture. Um, what happens is that you have to then reliably connect all these devices so connectivity becomes important. But as you distribute, compute as well as applications, your attack surface increases right. Because all of these devices are very vulnerable. We're probably adding about 5,000,000 I ot devices every day to our network, So that's a lot of I O T. Devices or age devices that we connect many of these devices. You know, we don't really properly test. You probably know from your own home when you can just buy something and could easily connect it to your wife. I Similarly, people buy something, go to their work and connect to their WiFi. Not that device is connected to your entire network. So vulnerabilities in any of these devices exposes the entire network to that same vulnerability. So our attack surfaces increasing, so connection reliability as well as security for all these devices is a challenge. So we enjoy each computing coyote branch on road officers. But it does pose those challenges. And that's what we're here to do with our tech partners. Toe sold these issues >> right? It's just instinct to me on the edge because you still have kind of the three big um, the three big, you know, computer things. You got the networking right, which is just gonna be addressed by five g and a lot better band with and connectivity. But you still have store and you still have compute. You got to get those things Power s o a cz. You're thinking about the distribution of that computer and store at the edge versus in the cloud and you've got the Leighton see issue. It seems like a pretty delicate balancing act that people are gonna have to tune these systems to figure out how much to allocate where, and you will have physical limitations at this. You know the G power plant with the sure by now the middle of nowhere. >> It's It's a great point, and you typically get agility at the edge. Obviously, don't have power because these devices are small. Even if you take a room order branch office with 52 2 100 employees, there's only so much compute that you have. But you mean you need to be able to make decisions quickly. They're so agility is there. But obviously the vast amounts of computer and storage is more in your centralized data center, whether it's in your private cloud or your public cloud. So how do you do the compromise? When do you run applications at the edge when you were in applications in the cloud or private or public? Is that in fact, a compromise and year You might have to balance it, and it might change all the time, just as you know, if you look at our traditional history off compute. He had the mainframes which were centralized, and then it became distributed, centralized, distributed. So this changes all the time and you have toe make decisions, which which brings up the issue off. I would say hybrid, I t. You know, they have the same issue. A lot of enterprises have more of a, um, hybrid I t strategy or multi cloud. Where do you run the applications? Even if you forget about the age even on, do you run an on Prem? Do you run in the public cloud? Do you move it between class service providers? Even that is a small optimization problem. It's now even Matt bigger with H computer. >> Right? So the other thing that we've seen time and time again a huge trend, right? It's software to find, um, we've seen it in the networking space to compete based. It's offered to find us such a big write such a big deal now and you've seen that. So when you look at it from a test a measurement and when people are building out these devices, you know, obviously aton of great functional capability is suddenly available to people, but in terms of challenges and in terms of what you're thinking about in software defined from from you guys, because you're testing and measuring all this stuff, what's the goodness with the badness house for people, you really think about the challenges of software defined to take advantage of the tremendous opportunity. >> That's a really good point. I would say that with so far defined it working What we're really seeing is this aggregation typically had these monolithic devices that you would purchase from one vendor. That wonder vendor would guarantee that everything just works perfectly. What software defined it working, allows or has created is this desegregated model. Now you have. You can take that monolithic application and whether it's a server or a hardware infrastructure, then maybe you have a hyper visor or so software layer hardware, abstraction, layers and many, many layers. Well, if you're trying to get that toe work reliably, this means that now, in a way, the responsibility is on you to make sure that you test every all of these. Make sure that everything just works together because now we have choice. Which software packages should I install from which Bender This is always a slight differences. Which net Nick Bender should I use? If PJ smart Nick Regular Nick, you go up to the layer of what kind of ax elation should I use? D. P. D K. There's so many options you are responsible so that with S T N, you do get the advantage of opportunity off choice, just like on our servers and our PCs. But this means that you do have to test everything, make sure that everything works. So this means more testing at the device level, more testing at the service being up. So that's the predeployment stage and wants to deploy the service. Now you have to continually monitor it to make sure that it's working as you expected. So you get more choice, more diversity. And, of course, with segregation, you can take advantage of improvements on the hardware layer of the software layer. So there's that the segregation advantage. But it means more work on test as well as monitoring. So you know there's there's always a compromise >> trade off. Yeah, so different topic is security. Um, weird Arcee. This year we're in the four scout booth at a great chat with Michael the Caesars Yo there. And he talked about, you know, you talk a little bit about increasing surface area for attack, and then, you know, we all know the statistics of how long it takes people to know that they've been reach its center center. But Mike is funny. He you know, they have very simple sales pitch. They basically put their sniffer on your network and tell you that you got eight times more devices on the network than you thought. Because people are connecting all right, all types of things. So when you look at, you know, kind of monitoring test, especially with these increased surface area of all these, Iet devices, especially with bring your own devices. And it's funny, the H v A c seemed to be a really great place for bad guys to get in. And I heard the other day a casino at a casino, uh, connected thermometer in a fish tank in the lobby was the access point. How is just kind of changing your guys world, you know, how do you think about security? Because it seems like in the end, everyone seems to be getting he breached at some point in time. So it's almost Maur. How fast can you catch it? How do you minimize the damage? How do you take care of it versus this assumption that you can stop the reaches? You >> know, that was a really good point that you mentioned at the end, which is it's just better to assume that you will be breached at some point. And how quickly can you detect that? Because, on average, I think, according to research, it takes enterprise about six months. Of course, they're enterprise that are takes about a couple of years before they realize. And, you know, we hear this on the news about millions of records exposed billions of dollars of market cap loss. Four. Scout. It's a very close take partner, and we typically use deploy solutions together with these technology partners, whether it's a PM in P. M. But very importantly, security, and if you think about it, there's terabytes of data in the network. Typically, many of these tools look at the packet data, but you can't really just take those terabytes of data and just through it at all the tools, it just becomes a financially impossible toe provide security and deploy such tools in a very large network. So where this is where we come in and we were the taps, we access the data where the package workers was essentially groom it, filtering down to maybe tens or hundreds of gigs that that's really, really important. And then we feed it, feed it to our take partners such as Four Scout and many of the others. That way they can. They can focus on providing security by looking at the packets that really matter. For example, you know some some solutions only. Look, I need to look at the package header. You don't really need to see the send the payload. So if somebody is streaming Netflix or YouTube, maybe you just need to send the first mega byte of data not the whole hundreds of gigs over that to our video, so that allows them to. It allows us or helps us increase the efficiency of that tool. So the end customer can actually get a good R Y on that on that investment, and it allows for Scott to really look at or any of the tech partners to look at what's really important let me do a better job of investigating. Hey, have I been hacked? And of course, it has to be state full, meaning that it's not just looking at flow on one data flow on one side, looking at the whole communication. So you can understand What is this? A malicious application that is now done downloading other malicious applications and infiltrating my system? Is that a DDOS attack? Is it a hack? It's, Ah, there's a hole, equal system off attacks. And that's where we have so many companies in this in this space, many startups. >> It's interesting We had Tom Siebel on a little while ago actually had a W s event and his his explanation of what big data means is that there's no sampling air. And we often hear that, you know, we used to kind of prior to big day, two days we would take a sample of data after the fact and then tried to to do someone understanding where now the more popular is now we have a real time streaming engines. So now we're getting all the data basically instantaneously in making decisions. But what you just bring out is you don't necessarily want all the data all the time because it could. It can overwhelm its stress to Syria. That needs to be a much better management approach to that. And as I look at some of the notes, you know, you guys were now deploying 400 gigabit. That's right, which is bananas, because it seems like only yesterday that 100 gigabyte Ethan, that was a big deal a little bit about, you know, kind of the just hard core technology changes that are impacting data centers and deployments. And as this band with goes through the ceiling, what people are physically having to do, do it. >> Sure, sure, it's amazing how it took some time to go from 1 to 10 gig and then turning into 40 gig, but that that time frame is getting shorter and shorter from 48 2 108 100 to 400. I don't even know how we're going to get to the next phase because the demand is there and the demand is coming from a number of Trans really wants five G or the preparation for five G. A lot of service providers are started to do trials and they're up to upgrading that infrastructure because five G is gonna make it easier to access state of age quickly invest amounts of data. Whenever you make something easy for the consumer, they will consume it more. So that's one aspect of it. The preparation for five GS increasing the need for band with an infrastructure overhaul. The other piece is that we're with the neutralization. We're generating more Eastern West traffic, but because we're distributed with its computing, that East West traffic can still traverse data centers and geography. So this means that it's not just contained within a server or within Iraq. It actually just go to different locations. That also means your data center into interconnect has to support 400 gig. So a lot of network of hitmen manufacturers were typically call them. Names are are releasing are about to release 400 devices. So on the test side, they use our solutions to test these devices, obviously, because they want to release it based the standards to make sure that it works on. So that's the pre deployment phase. But once these foreign jiggy devices are deployed and typically service providers, but we're start slowly starting to see large enterprises deploy it as a mention because because of visualization and computing, then the question is, how do you make sure that your 400 gig infrastructure is operating at the capacity that you want in P. M. A. P M. As well as you're providing security? So there's a pre deployment phase that we help on the test side and then post deployment monitoring face. But five G is a big one, even though we're not. Actually we haven't turned on five year service is there's tremendous investment going on. In fact, key site. The larger organization is helping with a lot of these device testing, too. So it's not just Xia but key site. It's consume a lot of all of our time just because we're having a lot of engagements on the cellphone side. Uh, you know, decide endpoint side. It's a very interesting time that we're living in because the changes are becoming more and more frequent and it's very hot, so adapt and make sure that you're leading that leading that wave. >> In preparing for this, I saw you in another video camera. Which one it was, but your quote was you know, they didn't create electricity by improving candles. Every line I'm gonna steal it. I'll give you credit. But as you look back, I mean, I don't think most people really grown to the step function. Five g, you know, and they talk about five senior fun. It's not about your phone. It says this is the first kind of network built four machines. That's right. Machine data, the speed machine data and the quantity of Mr Sheen data. As you sit back, What kind of reflectively Again? You've been in this business for a while and you look at five G. You're sitting around talking to your to your friends at a party. So maybe some family members aren't in the business. How do you How do you tell them what this means? I mean, what are people not really seeing when they're just thinking it's just gonna be a handset upgrade there, completely missing the boat? >> Yeah, I think for the for the regular consumer, they just think it's another handset. You know, I went from three G's to 40 year. I got I saw bump in speed, and, you know, uh, some handset manufacturers are actually advertising five G capable handsets. So I'm just going to be out by another cell phone behind the curtain under the hurt. There's this massive infrastructure overhaul that a lot of service providers are going through. And it's scary because I would say that a lot of them are not necessarily prepared. The investment that's pouring in is staggering. The help that they need is one area that we're trying to accommodate because the end cell towers are being replaced. The end devices are being replaced. The data centers are being upgraded. Small South sites, you know, Um, there's there's, uh how do you provide coverage? What is the killer use case? Most likely is probably gonna be manufacturing just because it's, as you said mission to make mission machine learning Well, that's your machine to mission communication. That's where the connected hospitals connected. Manufacturing will come into play, and it's just all this machine machine communication, um, generating vast amounts of data and that goes ties back to that each computing where the edge is generating the data. But you then send some of that data not all of it, but some of that data to a centralized cloud and you develop essentially machine learning algorithms, which you then push back to the edge. The edge becomes a more intelligent and we get better productivity. But it's all machine to machine communication that, you know, I would say that more of the most of the five communication is gonna be much information communication. Some small portion will be the consumers just face timing or messaging and streaming. But that's gonna be there exactly. Exactly. That's going to change. I'm of course, we'll see other changes in our day to day lives. You know, a couple of companies attempted live gaming on the cloud in the >> past. It didn't really work out just because the network latency was not there. But we'll see that, too, and was seeing some of the products coming out from the lecture of Google into the company's where they're trying to push gaming to be in the cloud. It's something that we were not really successful in the past, so those are things that I think consumers will see Maur in their day to day lives. But the bigger impact is gonna be for the for the enterprise >> or jet. Thanks for ah, for taking some time and sharing your insight. You know, you guys get to see a lot of stuff. You've been in the industry for a while. You get to test all the new equipment that they're building. So you guys have a really interesting captaincy toe watches developments. Really exciting times. >> Thank you for inviting us. Great to be here. >> All right, Easier. Jeff. Jeff, you're watching the Cube. Where? Cube studios and fellow out there. Thanks for watching. We'll see you next time.

>> Live from Las Vegas; it's the Cube. Covering the AWS Accenture Executive Summit. Brought to you by Accenture. >> Welcome back everyone to the Cube's live coverage of the AWS executive summit here at the Venetian in Las Vegas Nevada. I'm your host Rebecca Knight. We have two guests for this segment. We have Hitoshi Ienaka the CEO of ARISE Analytics and Takuya Kudo the Chief Sciences Officer at ARISE. Thank you both so much for coming on the program. >> Thank you. >> So I want to start by having you tell our viewers a little bit more about ARISE analytics. >> Well ARISE analytics is a joint venture between KDDI and Accenture. Well last, well last year we established a company yeah. That's family. >> Right and that's you know kind of we provide like tying the capabilities and the KDDI is kind of number two mobile network operator in Japan, has 50 million subscribers, massive data. So that's there a lot of room to cook but they don't have enough capability to support that. So that's why we kind of married together. >> And it helps companies leverage a wealth of knowledge resources and data between firms to bring about digital transformation. >> Right. >> That's what you're doing. So talk a little bit about what you've seen so far. >> Well so we have two assets, KDDI has, well big data and well Accenture has, well a lot of analytic skills. So using this well these assets, we built our integrated analytics platform hosted on a eda-brais. And what our first challenge was to deduce, channel out to the other operators and were which caused a challenge risk to well more than 40 million subscribers and by digging into that data and using machine learning origin and our data includes (mumbles) and life style service usage. And well, we optimize customer channels and contact timing and well to target customers efficiently. And well we well we tried art of well, other event well art of >> (mumbles) >> Yeah yeah. >> Yeah (mumbles) marketing. >> Okay. >> Yeah and we can get a good result and well it was not only due to our activities but only last year, only KDDI well could increase the market share among three network operators in Japan. That is our our achievements yeah. >> That's very impressive! So can you talk a little bit about the initial pilot in particular what you saw. Taku, do want to? >> Right so like as he mentioned like we have two work stream gigantic work stream. One is for consumer facing right. So customer chai and the you know out of on three marketing's or like recommendation engines based upon this stream data because we have massive like this is a consumption data too. Not just about like you know one handset data. In another work stream is a B2B, a business domain which is sounds like not related to mobile network operators but they have massive network to sell to B2B customer. So we utilize those gigantic data, combine those maybe I can mention but data but combine those data creating new service model. So that's quite a new IOT initiatives for B2B layers and consumer initiatives you know to support ongoing current business. >> And you're using this in a variety of sectors in particular I wanted you to ask you about one that you're doing with Toyota and a taxi service. >> Right so (mumbles) so yeah that that one is like five years like example because a, unless otherwise, I don't think that new business model to compete with Uber never happened right? So KDDI provide like Maura Handu said like location data over like you indigenous subscribers creating some, you know demand side riders for (mumbles) right? Over there, on top of that Toyota's transact log, which is technically like kinematics data provide like supply side which is cause, right? Focusing model and taxi also provide like meters, where customer riders get in and get off and combine those three completely different cable and data sets. >> But also with things like weather and those kinds of other >> Exactly yeah. >> outside. >> Open data too. And combine those data sets. We in, we provide, Accenture provides like talents and creating completely new forecasting model it's called AI taxi dispatch model. So now if you go to Tokyo, majority of taxi has our algorithm like Arizona takes in, you know KDDI and Accenture provide it. >> So that's very cool! Can you talk a little bit about what you've learned, about, in terms of when the weather is like this, taxis happen this >> Yeah, so it's of course weather has massive impact over, like if it's mornings specifically lane, it boosts like demands and also events. We have also events data. Maybe I don't know concerts, some famous singer, celebrities came and it's you know boost like riders demands. So that's actually significant impact of our demand focused model. Rather than using pushing like Uber, you strike you know app, mobile app. we actually treated as (mumbles) like taxi actually go because taxi driver and I can see where is a hot spot to pick up riders. And that's what we try to do. So based up on those, you know people don't even have like maybe like my father's age right, that don't have a smartphone they can get the benefit universality right. So that's the base concepts to provide Universal model to those you know without these >> So even people lacking technology >> Right exactly. >> Can still reap the benefits of this kind of approach. >> (mumbles) is universality so that's also our business strategy. Yeah. >> So you're also using this approach in a manufacturing environment. >> Yeah that's right. We are also working with some manufacturing factory. On the factory field were experienced workers can detect machine breakdown before they occur. But well how can that not be passed on to less experienced employees? So we created a live predictive maintenance which alerts companies ahead of time to pre potential breakdowns. Sensors (mumbles) about things like vibrations, temperature and electrical current. The collected data is analyzed by the AI system. So in this way the prediction of machine (mumbles) can be performed by almost anyone. Well it used to be others by only experienced employees before, yeah. >> So it not only helps the company know when a machine is going to fail, it also empowers the employee to fix it him or herself. >> Right it's a preventive way and so it's up and running over the ad-abreis. We use kinesis in late shift you know, learn the functions and over EC2. So that's completely free stock over ad-abreis capability too. >> So what you're describing sounds like it requires a lot of collaboration, a lot of deep relationship building between not only Accenture and KDDI but also the clients that you're working with. Can you describe how you all work together? >> Right. So maybe I'm going to provide that information. So like of course like KDDI's employee has specific domain knowledge and we provide like you know like data science capabilities and also like maybe through the interview right, found workers or like taxi, they have specific domain knowledge So combine those collaboration. It's called two in the box and we collaboratively paired each employees and you know supply the knowledge each other so that's it. Just one is not enough but as a team integrated over database and created a very strong team and that's a you know we try to cherish and that's culture. And the two boost the data science, data driven companies decision-making process. >> So i think our viewers are pretty amazed and impressed with what's going on. But in this era of 5G and IOT, what's next, what are you working at? It's a relatively new partnership. What are what are some of the most exciting things in the pipeline? >> So the (laughs) the very strategic so we strategizing right now in terms of 5G in IOT. But definitely one of the pieces could be like deep learning right? And also about your realities which nobody has done before. So that's where we try to collaborate with other sectors, industries, to create a new. And to do so we need a massive like computation power like GPU servers and we have to rely on the ad-abreis because otherwise we cannot achieve those goals and specifically 5G maybe changing in the game. Maybe like you know low latency and you know wireless connectivity, you know we don't need connections so maybe the factory lining assembly lines. You know completely change the way crispy like edge computing no more. Maybe like for computing, right, in between like Saba and edge because of the 5G. I don't know but we are strategizing now in a very exciting moment. We are doing right now. >> Indeed it is. >> Yeah. >> Well Hitoshi, Taku, thank you so much for coming on the Cube. This was a lot of fun. >> Thank you very much. I'm Rebecca Knight. Stay tuned for more of the Cube's live coverage of the AWS Executive Summit coming up just after this. (Uptempo music)

>> Announcer: Live from Nice, France, It's theCUBE, covering .Next Conference 2017 Europe brought to you by Nutanix. Hi, I'm Stu Miniman and you're watching SiliconANGLE Media's production of The Cube here inside the Acropolis Conference Center in Nice, France. Beautiful location, happy to welcome back to the program off the keynote stage this morning, Sudheesh Nair, President with Nutanix, and a first-time guest, someone I've gotten to know through the industry, Dan McConnell, Vice-President of the CPSD group inside DELL EMC. Gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having us. >> Dan: Thanks for having us. Sudheesh needs no introduction, but Dan, why don't you tell us a little bit about your background, your role inside of DELL EMC. Sure, I guess, I've been at DELL for about, I don't know, 18 years, in various forms, engineering, CTO, product management. Nowadays I've got a collection of the CPSD businesses. Chad will refer to it as the horizontal businesses but basically all the things that are multi-hypervisor in nature. XC series, clearly one of those products, one of the long relationships we've had with Nutanix, very successful. Matter of fact, coming off Q2 was our strongest quarter ever. We're still closing Q3 so I can't talk about that, but safe to say these last six months will be six months of the strongest we've had with Nutanix and the XC series. I've got a collection of products from Block to FlexTech C Series. Yeah, so you come from what was the DELL side of DELL EMC, in through, of course, the DELL VMware relationship, been a strong one, driven a lot of joint revenue for the companies, yeah. Yep, absolutely, it's been great. Been good getting to know Sudheesh over the years. It's been multiple years at this point. >> Sudheesh: Almost four years now. But it's been a great relationship. Sudheesh, please. Yeah, first of all, thank you for having us. It's always nice to see you. And I still am amazed by all this equipment and how professional you are when it comes to doing these sort of things. It's very nice to be here with Dan. He's one of the nicest guys in the company and I'm not just saying because he's sitting here. A very good human being, it's always been a pleasure. It's almost four years we've been working together. Sudheesh, our audience loves when, they're looking forward to this session because, come on, DELL EMC, Nutanix, wait, they're friends, no they're competitors. No, yeah, they're, you know, it's a mix together. They say it's like the macaroons. It's, a couple of pieces go together, some of the flavors you like, some maybe you don't as much. Probably a bad analogy. Bring us up to speed as to kind of the Dell relationship. You know, how important is it to Nutanix? I know it's something that I talk to customers that are running Dell EMC and say, "Does it concern you at all?" And it is something that at least is on the radar for most customers. I'll try to give a shorter answer. It's a long answer question. The first thing is, this is a relationship that is built to last. I know that it is not an easy relationship, but let me also be honest about, look inside the industry and tell me a single relationship that is absolutely black and white. I mean, it's not that long ago when in one of the VMworlds, I don't remember who exactly, but someone from VMware actually said, "We're not going to lose to a bookseller," right? And then in the last-- >> Stu: Yeah, he's a VC now, so doing quite well for himself. Yeah, he's a great guy, it was his call, yeah. Again, it's a point in time of opinion, and I would do the same thing because we all compete with our heart and mind. It's not about that point. The fact that the company evolved, and in the last VMworld I think the CEOs of both AWS and VMware were hugging it out. Does that mean they've built a relationship that will not have conflicts? Absolutely not. I fundamentally don't think that the relationships in IT industry specifically will no longer be black and white, and it will always be shades of gray. The question is, should we be focused on customers who wants us to stop bickering and deliver what's right for them, and continue to focus on the overlaps of interest as opposed to focus on the conflicts that will arise. Absolutely well said. It's clear, and Dell's always been focused on a strategy of customer choice and flexibility. One of our key strengths at DELL EMC now is the portfolio, the fact that we've got multiple offers, the fact that it's a focus on the customer, what the customer wants, giving them flexibility as opposed to always trying to pigeonhole a specific product. It's interesting because I've been watching since the first days of the relationship. Dell's goal is to be leader in infrastructure. Nutanix's goal, be an iconic software company. Well, you're not going to be a server manufacturer, there's room there. So, Dan, why is Nutanix best on Dell? That's a great question. So one, the long relationship, right? So, we actually have teams of people who focus on integrating the platform and the software. There's a software stack in there, we call Power Tools internally that, long story short, manages all of the firmware stacks as well as, essentially lifecycle management of the hardware up underneath Nutanix. So, one piece is the hardware integration. The second piece, which we talked about a year ago at .Next, that we would be focused on integrating the broader Dell EMC portfolio, namely data protection. So, you'll see in upcoming weeks, we've already announced it formally, it gets turned on here in a few weeks, tight integration of Data Domain and Avamar with the XC series. Not just to reference architecture, but actual integration into the management. So, full lifecycle integration of data protection leveraging Data Domain, Avamar, tightly integrated into XC series, keeping that focus of ease of use, lifecycle management not only around the infrastructure, but also from data protection. So, hardware integration as well as tight integration of other pieces of the ecosystem. One other piece there, not to take too long, but not only data protection but we're also leveraging our relationship with Microsoft, and you'll see us integrate XC series into Azure with things like OMS, with our Log Analytics solution, so building out that ecosystem around the infrastructure. Yeah, Sudheesh, the Microsoft relationship's an interesting one, of course. You know, Dell, very long, strong relationship. I remember Satya Nadella up onstage with Michael Dell at Dell World years ago. It seems like a good opportunity for even deeper partnership. I think it's not just Microsoft. I think Dell EMC is the single largest vendor in this space and ecosystem, for example Pivotal. The innovative things that Pivotal is doing, Nutanix has an opportunity to partner with that because of the ecosystem. The global support, the global reach that Dell has, we have access to that. Customers get choice. Pretty much every customer who's buying anything in this industry probably have a contract with Dell. We have access to that. So, it requires a level of maturity for the business to sort of turn off the noise and listen to the music. We have been able to do that, and I know that people would love to see a fight, and yes, sometimes we have friction, and I think that is healthy. But by and large both companies have figured out the most important thing is to focus on customers, do right by them. So, Sudheesh, I think it would be fair to say that both companies have a sales culture that many outside call a bit aggressive. And especially where it's been interesting and sometimes challenging to watch is when it hits the channel. So, I know a number of channel providers, love Dell, love Nutanix, and have felt pressure sometimes from the Dell side to move to some of the other products, many have stuck. How do you balance that to kind of keep the channel happy, keep them working on that? You're absolutely right. I think both companies have a sales-driven culture, no question about it. And Nutanix, even though we are a younger company, much smaller in size, I don't think our aspirations and the fighting spirit is any less. In fact, in some cases it might even be out there. However, what we have done is we always focused on partners as part of the customer in the same ecosystem. That is, do right by the customer, do right by the partner. And I think that applies to both companies. What we have done early on is actually put together some guard rails between companies, how do we approach when those sort of conflicts arises, number one. Number two, we put together processes in the field when it comes to dual registration which is somewhat convoluted on the back end, but extremely delightful on the front end. Now, that doesn't mean there won't be friction. What we've done is we made sure that number one, the frictions are exceptions, not an example always, and second, when it comes up, we talk. So, he's on my WhatsApp. When something really blows up he will say, "Sudheesh, what's going on?" It's less and less now because our people have actually done a pretty good job of managing it. But ultimately, the one thing that'll continue to sustain and grow this relationship would be trust and communication. In the last four years, we know the people. We have built the communication, we speak the language, and because of that we are able to overcome all those problems. Yeah, the key is when those arise, getting the right people involved and ultimately doing right by the customer. There's always going to be conflict, this, that in the field. It's getting the right people involved early managing it and making sure we're putting customers first, not getting them in the middle of it. >> Sudheesh: Absolutely. Alright, so Dan, one of the things we heard from Nutanix today and I've been hearing all week, Intel Skylake. You've got 14 Gs available. Since it's not announced yet as the date, what kind of guidance can you give, and how's that rollout going to look for customers? Especially, I love your viewpoint as you know the server world forever, and you've got a broad portfolio. How does customer adoption across the various buying modes happen? I'll dance around this a bit and say stay tuned, very soon you'll hear some announcement around the 14th Generation PowerEdge. >> Stu: If you're watching the replay, call your rep now, it might be ready. Exactly right, so yes, stay tuned, very, very soon. We've already talked about it back at Dell EMC World. You can expect us to fully embrace the 14th Generation PowerEdge. We've already having some conversations with folks in the field. Obviously, we've got the PowerEdge line out there already. It's actually, the adoption of 14 G has been very, very strong, so we expect that to pick up here on the XC series very shortly. So, like I said, stay tuned. I have to dance around a little bit, but it'll be very, very soon. But one point, it's not available any later on the XC than it is on the other hyperconverged offerings that you have, correct? Correct. Yeah, so that's, I think, kind of the main thing. But that also tells you that we don't just take the same server and ship it out. We actually go through a different process to make sure that this can actually run mission critical applications. That's part of the problem as well, we have to do this right. Take a lot of time hardening that, what we would call standard server, so that's what's in process now, and almost done. I'd like to give you both a last word. Talk about customers, talk about anything we should be looking at down the road from the partnership. Dan, we'll start with you. Sure, you'll see continued, what I'll say tight integration, focus on the ecosystem. I think big steps with data protection integration, focus on Microsoft. You'll see more integration in that vein filling out that overall ecosystem. Partnership continues to be strong. I think it's a very good combination of software, hardware, and ecosystem. So, on the Dell EMC side you'll see us bring that ecosystem focus, and continue working with these guys. Obvious integrations on the hardware side with some exciting technologies like NVNE and RDMA. So, we'll continue to leverage the hardware technology to promote HCI and to drive HCI, make it stronger, and continue to focus on the overall ecosystem. So, we're excited for the relationship, and I'll hand it over to Sudheesh. Yeah, I think, see Nutanix, we always were a software company. But taking a product like this without the help of an appliance form factor would not be feasible, because any problem happened, it would be our problems. But now that we have the last five years behind us, we know how to make it work. What sort of products do we need to build to support the installation process, the upgrade process, lifecycle management, all of those things are done. Now starting next year, you'll see Nutanix making a conscious decision to become a truly software company, without the reliance of being, pushing through hardware. Our sales organization will be retooled and restructured to become, and incentivized to focus more and more on software, and less and less on appliances, which will bring companies like Dell EMC and Nutanix closer, because they have the footprint. Some of the conflicts used to arise basically because we had our own appliances as well. And once the sales organization is differently incentivized, you will see the trust building faster between the resellers and the companies. So, I am very optimistic because of not just the technology vision. Nutanix with hyperconverged, and the Calm and Xi, and everything else that we laid out. We know that for us, hyperconverged is just the foundation, and the support for everything that we're building. That fully aligns with Dell EMC's aspirations on how Nutanix should proceed. So, we're pretty excited, but always cautious about what could go wrong, focused on those things. As long as we talk and communicate, and we focus on customers and partners, I am pretty confident on the future. Sudheesh Nair, Dan McConnell, thank you so much for catching up. Welcome to The Cube alumni. Much appreciated. He's a pro already. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix .Next in Nice, France. I'm Stu Miniman, you're watching The Cube. (electronic music)

>> Hey welcome back everybody. Jeff Frick, with the Cube. We're at Node Summit 2017 in downtown San Francisco. About 800 people, developers talking about Node and Node GS. And really the crazy adoption of Node as a development platform. Enterprise adoption. Everything's up and to the right. Some crazy good stories. And we're excited to have somebody coming right off his keynote. It's James Bellenger. He is an engineer at Twitter. James, welcome. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> Yeah, absolutely. So you just got off stage and you were talking all about Twitter Lite. What is Twitter Lite? I like Twitter as it is. >> Ah, so Twitter Lite is an optimized, it's a mobile web app. So if you pull up your phone, open up the web browser and go to twitter.com, in your smart phone web browser, you get a Twitter experience that we're calling Twitter Lite. >> Okay. >> And it used to be a little bit out of date. But we've been able to update it using a lot of new exciting web technologies. And so now we have this thing that feels very much like a native web app. >> Okay. >> They call them progressive web apps these days. And so we're using that as sort of a way to sort of compete in areas and markets where maybe a native apps are less able to compete. Where you know, people don't want to download a 200 megabyte iOS app. They want something that fits under 600 kilobytes. >> Okay. So you had the Twitter Lite app before. And then this was really a re-deployment? Or am I getting it wrong? >> I think, well we had We had a web app at mobile.twitter.com. >> Okay. >> And it was just sort of the mobile web app. >> Okay. >> But you know we sort of really rewrote everything. And that includes the back end on Node. And then we're now sort of pushing that and calling it Twitter Lite. >> Okay. And when did that go live or GA? >> About three months ago. >> Three months ago, okay. Super. So obviously you're here at Node. You just spoke at Node. You know, how was the experience using a Node tool set versus whatever you had it built on before? >> It's definitely faster in every way. Well, I mean, >> Faster in every way. That's a good thing. >> So well, let me Let me catch that. Be more specific. It is ... >> It's those benchmarking people. We need them back over here. >> It is very fast for how we apply it. It's really fast for development speed. And perhaps the biggest win is that on both sort of areas of our stack whether it's the part of the application that runs on the browser or it's the part of the application that runs inside the Twitter data center. We have one language and technology. So when a problem comes up and an engineer needs to like go and find the problem and fix it they don't need to sort of "Oh, well that's server code. "I don't know how it works. "And it's written in this language I don't understand." We really just have one application and it happens to run in both places. And so it really improves engineering efficiency. >> And you saw that in the development process, QA and the ongoing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And was it more ... So it's more like the guys that were more front end that now have access to the back end and then the other way around. Is that correct? Yeah, it's a little bit of both. >> Okay. >> You know, I think before I think there's people that they really like Scala. And they only want to work in Scala. Or there's people that really don't like it. So you end up, I think, having engineers kind of get bulkanized by their technology choices, and their preferred systems. But I think it really sort of tears down a couple walls. And so it makes, it improves engineering efficiency that way. But we found also that some of the tool sets and the tool chains that we're using allow engineers to just sort of like move faster. >> Right. >> So you know, whether that's like recompiling the service in like one second. Instead of having to wait for multiple minutes. There's just sort of less time spent waiting. >> Right. And in terms of don't share anything you're not supposed to share but in terms of, you know, frequency of releases and ongoing maintenance and kind of the development of the I won't say the app, not the app. I guess it is the app. Going forward, you know, how has that been impacted by moving to this platform? >> I think it might be too early to say. >> Okay. >> We've, you know, right now we've got about 12 to 15 engineers and we're ramping up. And it, I think it might, we're kind of looking to finish around 25 engineers, by the end of the year. >> Okay. >> So the sort of team and contributor base of the kind of like core team that are working on the app is growing. But you know, otherwise there's, you know, we're releasing every day. We're, you know, we try to you know, we're always pushing code. We're running experiments a lot. >> Right. I don't know if that answers your question but. >> So it sounds like it's a little easier but you're still doing everything you were doing before but now it just feels like it's easier because of this. >> Well, you know, talk to me in a couple months. >> Okay. >> Then maybe we'll have some better answers for you. >> Okay. So the other thing I want, if I talk to you in a couple months, I talk to you a year from now, just in terms of as you look down the road, you know, what this opens up. You know, kind of what are some of your priorities now that you've got it out. You said you've been out there for three months. What's kind of next on your roadmap, your horizon? >> So far, I think we've been really encouraged by the success of using this stack for development. So we're looking to kind of double down on that. >> Okay. >> So that means looking at some of the other Twitter web apps. Oh, sorry, Twitter apps in general. The other ways people use Twitter. And to sort of look at how they were built. And to see, because we're using React, and because we're using, I think technologies that make it very easy to you know, be responsive and you know, either be have a wide layout or a very narrow layout, or work offline. We have a lot of potential to sort of cannibalize or replace and also update some of the existing apps >> Right. >> That maybe don't get the attention that they need. >> Right. >> So there's some of that. And then I think Twitter Lite as a product I think that we're going, you know, we're looking to really expand it's reach. And make a big push in some of the developing areas. >> Yeah. Because the other thing people don't know, I mean, Twitter's acquired a bunch of companies, you know, over the years. So we've heard some examples earlier today, where that's a use case when you do have the opportunity to maybe redo an acquired application. You know, that those are kind of natural opportunities to look to redo them with this method. >> Yeah. Sure. >> All right. Cool. Well, James, thanks for taking a few minutes. >> Thank you. >> Congratulations on the talk. And I'll think of you next time I go to Twitter Lite. >> Yeah. Thank you so much. >> All righty. He's James Bellenger from Twitter. I'm Jeff Frick. You're watching the Cube from Node Summit 2017. Thanks for watching. (techno music)