>>Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering my groin insight 2019 brought to you by micron. >>We're back at pier 27 in San Francisco. This is the cube, the leader in live tech coverage and we're covering micron insight 2019 I'm Dave Vellante with my cohost David Floyd and this event is kind of interesting. David, it basically intersperses cube interviews with big tent discussions, thought leadership, we've heard from automotive, healthcare and and 5g discussions and no Han is here. He's the vice president and CTO of the emerging business at Erickson. And you were just on a panel. Welcome to the cube. Thanks. Great to be here. You were talking about five G, we're going to talk about five G. so first of all, talking about the emerging business at Ericsson, >>your whole group, you know, so Ericsson, we, you know, 99 a lot of our business today has done what operators emerging business group, we're sort of looking at the intersection of industry, cloud computing, our traditional mobile network operator customers, and how do we, how do we put those together and look for new either products or business models. And really create something new for customers. >>So we tell him when he's talking about five G, everybody gets all excited. Certainly the technology community is excited about it. There's a whole value chain and an ecosystem that's that's pumping right along. The carriers are adopting and the users are just waiting. So what should we know about? >>So I, you know, I think there's a couple of different things. One is from a consumer perspective, you're definitely looking at faster, you know, better. All of the things we've got from the other GS at older things. You know, today, you know, faster downloads of movies. I think what we're, and I'm, I'm in the tech business, not in the prediction business, you know. So I think what we've learned from previous technologies is we almost don't know what the new applications are. We're trying to make the platform as easy as possible for developers to utilize what the network actually has to offer. So I think that's a big part of what we're trying to do. The other part is enhancing what you have today as a consumer is massive, but also industries is a huge pull on 5g. So we talked about industry four. Dot. Zero and really transforming industries and cutting the cables in production lines, allowing monitoring of systems that never happened before. >>A lot of use cases that can be out there. So a, I have a younger son of 22 and I look at my a bill every month. Yeah, I do have him downloading 10 times more data. It doesn't fill me with uh, duty or just the excise to carriers. I mean while we've seen with every, every end. And of course that was the question how much of a down, yeah, how much low is the price going to be on this baffled breeze you go to invest an awful lot. Absolutely. So I mean we're going to see it tens, 10 orders of magnitude cheaper. So even as it is now with 4g, we're seeing a lot of the unlimited plans coming available and so on. I think we're just going to see more of that. And then the question, actually a big question for five G is what will you pay for? >>You know, if we talk about age compute and low latency, if you're a gamer and I can give you X milliseconds of latency versus you know, a two X milliseconds, how much would you pay for that? So I think what we know at the moment is people will pay for that. We don't know exactly how much, and that's where you need the ecosystem and you need to get stuff out there. And actually some of the economic impact is fuzzy. But in thinking past, there's no prologue. But if you think about the other GS as they sort of were adopted, what can we learn from those? And how do you think five G will be different in terms of its adoption and economic impact? Let's say if you look at adoption, I mean just a number of contracts. We have the number of deployments we have globally, just off the charts in terms of where we are with 4g Korea launched and a few months ago, just just before the summer, within two months they had a million 5g subscribers with smart phones in their eyes and two months later they added a second million subscribers. >>I mean for a market to go from zero to that in, in that period of time with smartphones, if we go back to 4g, all of that was with dongles and sort of hotspots on routers, you know, so to jump directly to smartphones, huge adoption, it's going to happen fast. Well what do you, what are the sequence, what's the sequence of events that have to occur for adoption to really take off? >> So obviously you need to build out the networks and the operators are doing that are pretty high speed. You need to have the devices ready and all the devices. Now it's not like you have a 5g only device. It's obviously capable of all the four G things. And then it's better when you have 5g. So the devices are going to come and take and fast. So all your new devices, most of the high end devices have 5g capability already in there. >>Um, and then the networks just getting built out more and more. And then of course the application developers actually understanding how can I take advantage of those new capabilities? And then you'll start to see, okay, wow, you know, I didn't, this wasn't possible before. It's not just a faster download. It's really, there's just new experiences happening >> from a development standpoint. How much access do they have to the technology? Do they have to wait until this is all built out? Obviously not, but, but, but what's the status of sort of the devs? So we're, we're trying to, and we're working with a lot of the ecosystem. We have, we call it the D 15 studio in our Santa Clara office. We're bringing developers in there and really trying to understand, because you know, we talk Telekom as well. So we want to expose things. We want to understand, do you know what variable, if we say quality of service, what does that mean for you? You know, how do you translate that? So, and we're working with, you know, the cloud players where to developers live to some extent to bring in that ecosystem and understand how it all plays together. So >>ahead. Yup. Um, so if really, if you're looking at it longterm, obviously it's going to happen, but the experience is as I go around the States, is that you've got all these different four G three GS edges still in a very, very patchy a level of it. Is this going to be different? Is this going to actually go into different places because there's a big investment that has to be made, a lot of things very close together. Yes, yes. That seems to be a recipe for everything being or right in the cities. But as soon as you go outside the urban areas, it's going to be very patchy. How does that compare, for example, with Elon Musk's idea of a doing stuff from the sky? >>Well, everything comes down to economics. So you know, it's, it's obviously you're going to have denser deployments in the cities, then you are in the countryside and so on. One of the big advantages would 5g is am, and not to get too deep into the technical part, but you can use all the spectrum that's available. And spectrum is super important as we get, you know, when we have lower frequency spectrum, you can cover a hundred miles Wade, one base station as you get to the millimeter wave, which is you get super high bandwidth, then you're add hundreds of meters. Yeah. And so obviously one is more suitable for a rural environment, the other is more suitable for. So for an urban environment, so obviously having those working together in one technology allows you to deploy everything and get the benefits in a much broader area than we had for any of the previous. >>There's choice there in terms of how you deploy or, or leverage the spectrum. So you're saying that the higher performance end of the spectrum, it's gonna require a greater density of other components. And absolutely. When people talk about oil, there's going to be a lot more distributed, you know, pieces of the five G network that has to get built out. So who does that? Who's putting those pieces of the value chain in? So different players, obviously the mobile network operators, the 18 Ts and Verizons of the world are doing a lot of the heavy lifting and know what our support to actually put the, the radios and the towers in place. And then there's an edge compute piece as well, which is different players are putting in that. Um, so, so a lot of that infrastructure has been done. I think one thing that we've been pushing quite a lot, all our install base of radios is um, 5g upgradable via software. >>So that means that a lot of the already installed, uh, radios and infrastructure, you're just softer upgrade, you know, an hour later it's now 5g ready. So I think that's a big piece of basin. Back to your question of how quickly and and can reach all those areas, are there any specific commercial blockers that you see, um, that you're thinking through? I am I, I think the, just understanding some of the more challenging when you look at, if you're deploying edge compute and you have to invest billions and really getting that far out to the edge, I think there's some questions still there. Like I said, how much would you pay for 20 milliseconds versus 15 milliseconds. And that might sound like a lot, but that's a lot of extra infrastructure you would need to put out. So I think that's still being worked true. >>And obviously some of that will happen quicker in a downtown San Francisco than it will in a, you know, middle of Nevada plays well and the others that you've mentioned before, it's unclear what new applications are going to emerge here. And so it's almost like build it and they will come and then we'll figure it out and then we'll figure out how to charge for it. Like you say the gamers, how much will they pay for it? Yeah, so those are some of the uncertainties but they'll shake themselves out. So absolutely. I was a pretty smart about doing. What about micron and the role of memory players and storage players? How will this affect them? Eight say a huge opportunity when you ah, yeah, I mean invest no and Bardy hats. >> Yeah, I think it's a, when you look at the number of devices and, okay, what's the device? >>The devices are smartphone. Well the devices now your car, it's every IOT device and down to your toaster and all the crazy stuff people are talking about too. I mean to every industrial application tool that age, computers. So you're distributing now a lot of different compute memory storage across different parts of the network. So I mean they talked earlier in the panel about phones having terabytes of data. You know, it's in, it's just unimaginable. The amount of data storage. Remember you're going to need in a vehicle, you know, they're looking at terabytes per hour of data and then how much of that should they shift off the vehicle? How much did it keep there? So huge opportunity. >> Well, I'd be willing to pay for, um, some memory in my appliances. They tell me when they're going to break. I just got a new dishwasher and I can program it with my, my remote. I don't want to program. I just want to know that on Thanksgiving morning it was that it works. But in a week before it's going to break, I want to know so I can deal with vending and maintenance. That's a big use case. Can't wait until that happens. The last question, so >>I was going to be, I was following up on that last point you were making. Um, uh, so again, this cost of everything, this, this value that you're going to get out of it. Um, it seems to me that, um, that this is gonna take a long time to push out. Um, and, and before it actually down. And people will actually know whether they can pay for this. And then one thing in particular is there's a lot of resistance in, in the, in the States anyway, to all of these devices being put very, very close, you know, to the, to, to it for example, putting all the devices down, download a row for example, that, that, that seems to be very expensive and, and going to get a lot of reaction from consumers is, is that not the case? >>So I actually, we're not seeing it that much. I mean if you look across the globe, um, China obviously is a slightly unique situation. Massive deployments already happening there. Like I said, Southeast Asia, South Korea being among the, you know, the forefront, big deployments already there. And we're seeing big pull from industries already and the operators here in U S are announcing new cities, you know, every month practically. So they are really full on into this. And to some extent it's, it's really just, there's a capacity need to have the spectrum. They need to make the investments and they're, they're doing it as we speak. >>So I think it depends on me. Why was it a meeting the other day in Boston with a lot of city officials and folks that worked for the mayor's office? They're envisioning Boston, you know, for the next 50 years, smart cities and five G was like, if you did a word cloud 5g was that the number one topic? You know, we talked earlier about sports stadiums. You can see that being, you know, use cases going to be these >>hotspots where it's of very, very high >>of the city in this case in Boston's case are they're going to invest, right? And they're gonna think that's going to be a differentiator for cities. >>You have this amazing infrastructure, you know, five G infrastructure that allows you to take advantage of that, be it just from, they talked about traffic congestion and what the city can do and then what the businesses and the consumers can do in that area that that can end up being a differentiator for innovation companies going there and so on. >>Right. All right. We're going to go before they blow us out. No, thanks very much for coming to the queue very much. All right, great. To have you on. I keep it right there, buddy. We'll be back with our next guest after this short break. You're watching the cube live from micron insight 2019 from San Francisco right back.

>> Voiceover: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCube, covering SAPPHIRE NOW. Headline sponsored by SAP Hana Cloud, the leader in Platform-as-a-Service. With support from Console Inc. the Cloud internet company. Now, here's your host, John Furrier. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. We are here live at SAPPHIRE NOW, SAP's big user conference. This is theCube, SiliconANGLE's flagship program. We go out to the events and extract the signals from noise. Day three of wall-to-wall coverage, this is day three. We had awesome interviews, go to youtube.com/siliconangle and look for the playlist of SAPPHIRE NOW, it'd be great, great videos out there. We would not be here if it wasn't for our sponsors, so shout out to SAP Hana Cloud Platform, Console Inc., Console Cloud, the Interconnect Companies, for interconnecting the clouds, and, of course, EMC Capgemini, thanks for your support. Our next guest is Uddhav Gupta, who's the Global Vice President for the SAP Platform-as-a-Service. Great to see you, we'll shake hands. >> Good to see you, John. >> So, we have been so excited about Platform-as-a-Service going back, man, almost when the Clouderati started. You know, almost seven years ago, when we started SiliconANGLE. We saw pre-OpenStack, Amazon was already on a trajectory, OpenStack kind of, Rackspace kind of bootstraps that, and then the rest is history, now you have Cloud Foundry, all this stuff is coming together. So, you guys have a big part of that developer ecosystem. >> Yes, we do. >> What do you do for the platforms-of-service for SAP, and what are some of the things you're working on, what should the audience know about that you're working on. >> Absolutely, so, first of all, thank you for having me on the show. We at Hana Cloud Platform, is basically a idea that we came up with to help our customers solve the biggest problem of complicated application development. And when we spoke to the customers, the typical thing that came back to us is, I want to actually integrate applications, right? I have incipient backing systems, I have non-incipient backing systems, how to bring these two systems together? I typically build an application, a mash-up for the audience. The second scenario that we basically solve, is, a lot of customers came back and said, we want to just extend certain business processes that are running on the back end, and you know, build applications that actually sit and extend these processes. So, we started looking at all of that, we said, okay, it's very clear, that we want to simplify the core. But we also wanted to go out and provide a simplified application development stack, so that people actually go out and build these applications. And that's what Hana Cloud Platform is all about. >> So the approach is not so much come from the infrastructure of the service, but come down from the app. Okay, well Larry Ellison, at Oracle, he said as well, well, you come up from the hardware, they got SUN, and then he comes down from the top, and their middleware is Oracle, a similar approach. And that's a great message, because that's his focus, is obviously app, but they got SUN, so they can kind of clean and they can book in the middleware, if you will, or past layer. Um, how do you guys compare vis-a-vis that, because you don't have any hardware. >> Correct. >> You got partners. >> Correct. >> Um, like EMC, then you got the Vblock going back to the day. >> Exactly. >> How do you answer to that? >> So we have always been agnostic in terms of hardware, agnostic in terms of infrastructure. So the angle that we're going with is just like how we did with Hana. We said, we'll build the Hana software, and we'll have it available on multiple different platforms. We are doing the same thing with the Hana Cloud Platform. Today, we offered it off our own SAP data center. The road map is to basically partner with a number of infrastructure providers, like Amazon, like Azio, like other third-party hosting providers-- >> You'd okay the computers? >> Yeah, completely. So if you're actually looking at going ahead and deploying our software on Cloud Form Read, enabling it on OpenStack, so we can actually now take it to all of our infrastructure partners, and use them as suppliers. That way, we can actually concentrate on building a business Platform-as-a-Service layer, concentrate on building the mechanics. Building the intelligence of the Platform-as-a-Service, and leave the infrastructure game to the guys who are really good at that. Which are Amazon, Azio, and a few others. >> So, you guys have Hana, okay, Hana database as well, the platform is Hana Cloud Platform, so, back to the Oracle thing, and I bring up Oracles there, we can relate to that. They claim performance advantage, so Oracle on Oracle, with SUN, has been optimized. It's almost end-to-end stacked. You guys worried about performance at all? Can you share your thoughts on how you answer that? >> Of course, I mean, if you look at the whole team of Sapphire here, that's been about running a business life. You can't run a business life without having performance. So performance is the core of everything that we're doing. Whether it's running a database that's high-speed. Whether it's simplifying the entire application stack, the S/4Hana, running at high-speed. It's also about an innovation cycle around it that needs to also be high-speed. And when we're building the Hana Cloud Platform, we've actually look into those elements continuously, and saying, how can we help application development also run at high-performance? This is around the computer. This is around the database. This is around the tool set that we actually providing our partner ecosystem, as well as the customers, to build custom applications at really high speeds. >> Okay, talk about, um, the Hana Cloud Platform. Expand, and take a minute to explain, because, I think that, you know, seeing on the opening day, you guys aren't getting the kind of credit in the press and in the market, although you're being successful, um, as the cloud. Some people say, oh they have nothin'. Platform-as-a-service, it's just SAP ware. Answer that, explain, take a minute to explain, what you guys have done, in the market, how it's different, and then it does work for non-SAP customers. So, kind of dice that out for us, share that. Take a minute to explain that. >> Absolutely, going to Sapphire, a lot of our customers and a lot of the press, media, also thought that Hana Cloud Platform is just for SAP. Now, after two days of conversations with customers, they quickly realize, that we're not just, like, for SAP, we could actually be the Force.com or the application platform for merging data from SAP and non-SAP, right? So that's the first revelation a lot of the customers have got. I find many of the customers that had this, aha moment, when I was talking to them, and they're like, "Oh, I can actually solve a number of issues with this. "I can actually go out and provide a single "application development layer across "my entire backing system, which is SAP and non-SAP." So we've seen a lot of that reaction. >> So that's an integration game, too. And the thing I would share were the folks at my observation of theCube, and I'd love to get your thoughts on this, is that, it's not trying to win SAP end-to-end. SAP plays well wherever the customer desires it, right? So if they go to ERP, or not ERP. If you want to come and and do, say, HR stuff. And success factors. You're still going to have a little bit of SAP, but this is application layer at the Hana Cloud Platform, is for the rest of the enterprise. It's not to lock in for future SAP, right? >> It's not a lock-in story here, right? I'll give you an example. We are doing some really crazy stuff on Hana Cloud Platform, right. You know the Superbowl that took place in San Francisco. >> Of course, Superbowl 50. >> SAP had a whole fan energy zone set up there, where people were actually playing games. And we are continuously streaming data from those games into the Hana Cloud Platform, right? Now, nothing to do with SAP, nothing to do with anything that even closely SAP's associated with. It's fan data coming to the Hana Cloud Platform. And people seeing analytics on top of it, right? We're having other partners also do similar stuff. I'm talking to partners that are basically going ahead and serving the utility companies, but more on the utility to the consumers piece. With the outlying customers to basically go and create a aggregated view of the consumptions, right? And this is a look at something not what SAP's used to doing. Bringing in the Hana Cloud Platform is allowing them to do such things. >> Alright, so my final question really is around Apple. So, how does the Apple deal affect you guys in particular. Because, you guys can't hide in the shadows anymore. You got to go for- go big or go home with Hana Cloud Platform. So does that change your game in terms if you go to market, is your budget increased? I mean you got, the game is on. The Apple deal puts the pressure on you guys to take that relationship, and use it as a way to get into, obviously means for your development. Swift is a great programming language, got a lot of traction. So tell me, I mean, is it all in now? I mean Apple is Apple that, hey, you got to go for it. Go big or go home. >> Yeah, so, it's definitely go big. The other thing that we have with this whole Apple relationship that we announced, has also made a very beautiful point, if you think about it, right? There're certain applications that can be web applications that you can still render on a mobile device, sure. You can make them extremely responsive, you can do all of that kind of stuff. But the beauty of the IOS and the relationship that we built with Apple, it allows you to start now building native applications that run on the mobile, but consume all the technical services that we have, are made available in the Hana Cloud Platform. >> And the data's critical there, I mean, SAP's got ARP data, systems of record data. And now you're expanding out to other engagement data, non-SAP data by the way. >> Exactly, and all the other technology services that we're basically providing in the Hana Cloud Platform with it's content, with it's data, with it's integration, a whole bunch of stuff, right? >> So is your budget doubled? >> Well the budget is not doubled, definitely right. >> Yeah but you have to, you have to run now so it's pretty clear for you guys, right? I mean, explain, is that the mandate? I mean, because you guys have been kind of like, silent run- I say silent run, not stealth, but I mean you been, chipping away at it, it's been a ground game for SAP Hana Cloud, haven't seen a lot of stuff out there in the market. It seems to me that now, the pressure's on. So go knock it out of the park, right? >> Absolutely, the focus on basically building mobile applications, specific mobile applications, for certain industries, is definitely coming back. So a lot of investment is happening in that space for sure, from SAP, from Apple, also from our partners. So that investment is definitely happening. There's also a lot of traction that we are basically putting on marketing that uh, concept out, so that our partner, the customers also get a true pat forward and a grain in how they should actually invest their resources. >> What's you priorities this year? Education, onboarding new-- >> Our priorities this year is getting a whole bunch of developers to actually start using the Hana Cloud Platform. To that extent, what we've actually done is we've gone ahead and created open SAP courses that allows anybody to access education on Hana Cloud Platform, absolutely free. With the IOS relationship we've gone out and basically created IOS academy. A lot of people understand how to build IOS apps, with the Hana Cloud Platform, thereby bridging the 150,000 developers that are already in the Hana Cloud Platform, the two million developers of the SAP network, and the 30 million developers of the Apple world, all coming together to start building stuff on the Hana Cloud Platform. >> I'm sure you've got some internal debates, like percentage of penetration within that 35 million, I mean, not everyone's going to be interested in enterprise programming but, a good slice will look to build white spaces. >> Absolutely, because, guess what? You can only earn that much money by building consumer apps. The moment you are a developer and you really want to earn serious money, you basically start looking at building enterprise apps. >> Final final question, because I have one more, this is good conversation, uh, where are the white spaces? So the developers that are watching, or people that are interested, in innovating on SAP, where do you guys see the white spaces that are low-hanging fruit right now, that someone can get a position in here and work? >> So, there're a number of those. Uh, the very first one around building industry-specific apps, right? To a large part of the industry, UAX was our SAP gooey. But now, everybody want to actually start digitizing those processes. Nobody actually wants to go into a static screen, or a pre-defined screen. They want it to be very responsive to what they're doing at the moment. It's alive, right? So, building those apps is definitely a white space. The second big white space is around building industry content. What I mean by industry content is, a platform can basically provide you all the platform capabilities that are required. But you need a lot more of the content and the technologies services. This could be matching learning algorithms, this could be actually predictive algorithms, this could be data content that is coming in. Building and providing data as a micro-service within the platform is something that is very interesting for us. >> Thanks so much for coming on theCube, I'll give you the final word Uddhav Gupta, Global Vice President of SAP, Platform-as-a-Service. What's the vibe of the show, you mentioned, what's the hallway conversations that you're hearing. You know, what's going on with the night, certainly at night with all those events going on, last night I went to bed early, watched the Warriors game. Win by 30-something points. Night before I was out til 1:30 doing some networking to Lloyd Bardy, S. Ensher, EY, seeing all the SAP people. Lot of chatter, what are you hearing? What are you hearing in the hallways? >> The vibe is very very positive. People are starting to finally understand how we are bringing all the Cloud acquisitions that we made together. People are starting to understand that they have to move to the Cloud. So the whole thing about the myth, whether we move or do not move to the Cloud, it's now kind of settled down. People are understanding where SAP is with integration, where SAP is with moving to the Cloud. But, the beauty is, last year, same time, the questions I was getting, was is any of this real? The question that we're getting now is, how do I engage into it? How do I start doing it? So that transition's happened really beautifully. Whether you think about S/4Hana, whether you think about Hana Cloud Platform, just in general, what's happening in the past well is helping that quite a lot. >> You guys have done a good job and you've been kind of transitioning, now it's real. You got a straight-and-narrow for developers. I'm looking forward to tracking you guys and seeing the progress. Great hallway conversations, of course the biggest conversation was that Reggie Jackson was on theCube, on day one and he was awesome, also the great executives come on with great conversation. Thanks so much for sharing your insight on theCube, Hana Cloud Platform-as-a-Service. We are live here in Orlando, you're watchin' theCube.