>>Yeah. Okay. Now we're going to dig deeper into HP es moral and try to better understand how it's going to impact customers. And with me to do that are Robert Christensen is the vice president strategy in the office of the C, T. O. And Kumar Srikanth is the chief technology officer and head of software both, of course, with Hewlett Packard Enterprise. Gentlemen, welcome to the program. Thanks for coming on. >>Good seeing you. Thanks for having us. >>Always. Great. Great to see you guys. So, Esmeralda, kind of a interesting name. Catchy name. But tomorrow, what exactly is H P E s bureau? >>Yeah. It's indeed a catchy name. Our branding team done a fantastic job. I believe it's actually a derivation from Esmeralda. The Spanish for Emerald Berlin. Supposed to have some very mystical powers. Um, and they derived as moral from there, and we all actually, initially that we heard it was interesting. Um, so as well was our effort to take all the software, the platform tools that HB has and provide these modern operating platform to the customers and put it under one brand. It has a modern container platform. It has a persistent stories distribute the date of February. It has been foresight, as many of our customers similar, So it's the think of it as a container platform offering for modernization of the civilization of the customers. >>Yeah, it's an interesting to talk about platform, so it's not a lot of times people think product, but you're positioning it as a platform, so it has a broader implications. >>That's very true. So as the customers are thinking of this civilization, modernization containers and microservices, as you know there has become, has become the stable whole. So it's actually a container orchestration platform. It offers open source proven. It is as well as the persistence always bolted to >>so by the way, s moral, I think emerald in Spain, I think in the culture it also has immunity powers as well. So immunity >>from >>lock in and all those other terrible diseases. Maybe it helps us with covid to rob Robert. When you talk to customers, what problems do you probe for that that is immoral. Can can do a good job solving. >>Yeah, they That's a really great question because a lot of times they don't even know what it is that they're trying to solve for, other than just a very narrow use case. But the idea here is to give them a platform by which they can bridge both the public and private environment for what to do an application development specifically in the data side. So when they're looking to bring Container Ization, which originally got started on the public cloud and has moved its way, I should say, become popular in the public cloud and has moved its way on premises. Now Esmeralda really opens the door to three fundamental things. But how do I maintain an open architecture like you're referring to some low or oh, no lock in of my applications And there were two. How do I gain a data fabric or data consistency of accessing the data so I don't have to rewrite those applications when I do move them around and then, lastly, where everybody is heading down, the real value is in the AI ML initiatives that companies are are really bringing that value of their data and locking the data at where the data is being generated and stored. And so the is moral platform is those multiple pieces that I was talking about stacked together to deliver those solutions for the client. >>So come on, what's the How does it work? What's the sort of I p or the secret sauce behind it all? What makes HP different? >>Continuing our team of medical force around, uh, it's a moral platform for optimizing the data Indians who were close. I think I would say there are three unique characteristics of this platform. Number one is actually provides you both an ability to run stable and stateless were close under the same platform, and number two is as we were thinking about. Unlike analogues, covenant is open source. It actually produce you all open source government as well as an orchestration behind you. So you can actually you can provide this hybrid, um, thing that drivers was talking about. And then actually we built the work flows into it. For example, we're actually announced along with Esmeralda MLS, but on their customers can actually do the work flow management. Our own specifically did the work force. So the magic is if you want to see the secrets of is all the efforts that have been gone into some of the I p acquisitions that HBs the more years we should be. Blue Data bar in the nimble emphasize, all these pieces are coming together and providing a modern digitalization platform for the customers. >>So these pieces, they all have a little bit of a machine intelligence in them. Yeah, People used to think of a I as the sort of separate thing, having the same thing with containers, right? But now it's getting embedded in into the stack. What? What is the role of machine intelligence or machine learning in Edinburgh? >>I would take a step back and say, You know this very well. They're the customer's data amount of data that is being generated, and 95% or 98% of data is machine generated, and it has a serious amount of gravity, and it is sitting at the edge, and we were the only the only one that edge to the cloud data fabric that's built. So the number one is that we are bringing computer or a cloud to the data. They're taking the data to the cloud like if you go, it's a cloud like experience that provides the customer. Yeah, is not much value to us if we don't harness the data. So I said this in one of the blood. Of course, we have gone from collecting the data era to the finding insights into the data so that people have used all sorts of analysis that we are to find data is the new oil to the air and the data. And then now you're applications have to be modernized. And nobody wants to write an obligation in a non microservices fashion because you want to build the modernization. So if you bring these three things, I want to have a data. Gravity have lots of data. I had to build an area applications and I want to have an idea those three things I think we bring together to the customs. >>So, Robert, let's stay on customers from it. I mean, you know, I want to understand the business impact, the business case. I mean, why should all the you know, the cloud developers have all the fun? You mentioned that you're bridging the cloud and on Prem, uh, they talk about when you talk to customers and what they are seeing is the business impact. What's the real drivers for them. >>That's a great question because at the end of the day I think the reason survey that was that cost and performance is still the number one requirement for the real close. Second is agility, the speed of which they want to move. And so those two are the top of mind every time. But the thing we find in as moral, which is so impactful, is that nobody brings together the silicon, the hardware, the platform and all that stacked together work and combined, like as moral does with the platforms that we have and specifically, you know, when we start getting 90 92 93% utilization out of ai ml workloads on very expensive hardware, it really, really is a competitive advantage over a public cloud offering which does not offer those kind of services. And the cost models are so significantly different. So we do that by collapsing the stack. We take out as much intellectual property, give me, um, as much software pieces that are necessary. So we are closest to the silicon closest to the applications bring into the hardware itself, meaning that we can inter leave the applications, meaning that you can get to true multi tendency on a particular platform that allows you to deliver a cost optimized solution. So when you talk about the money side, absolutely. There's just nothing out there and then on the second side, which is agility. Um, one of the things that we know is today is that applications need to be built in pipelines. Right? This is something that has been established now for quite some time now. That's really making its way on premises. And what Kumar was talking about was, how do we modernize? How do we do that? Well, there's going to be something that you want to break into Microservices and containers. There's something you don't now the ones that they're going to do that they're gonna get that speed and motion etcetera out of the gate. And they can put that on premises, which is relatively new these days to the on premises world. So we think both will be the advantage. >>Okay, I want to unpack that a little bit. So the cost is clearly really 90 plus percent utilization. I mean, come on. You know, even even a pre virtualization. We know what it was like even with virtualization, you never really got that high. I mean, people would talk about it, but are you really able to sustain that in real world workloads? >>Yeah, I think when you I think when you when you make your exchangeable currency into small pieces, you can insert them into many areas. And we have one customer was running 18 containers on a single server and each of those containers, as you know, early days of data. You actually modernized what we consider we won containers of micro B. Um, so if you actually build these microservices and you have all anti affinity rules and you have rationing formulas all correctly, you can pack being part of these things extremely violent. We have seen this again. It's not a guarantee. It all depends on your application and your I mean, as an engineer, we want to always understand how this can be that sport. But it is a very modern utilization of the platform with the data and once you know where the data is, and then it becomes very easy to match those >>now. The other piece of the value proposition that I heard Robert is it's basically an integrated stack, so I don't have to cobble together a bunch of open source components. It's there. There's legal implications. There's obviously performance implications that I would imagine that resonates is particularly with the enterprise buyer, because they have the time to do all this integration. >>That's a very good point. So there is an interesting, uh, interesting question that enterprise they want to have an open source, so there is no lock in. But they also need help to implement and deploy and manage it because they don't have expertise. And we all know that Katie has actually brought that AP the past layer standardization. So what we have done is we've given the open source and you write to the covenant is happy, but at the same time orchestration, persistent stories, the data fabric, the ai algorithms, all of them are bolted into it. And on the top of that, it's available both as a licensed software and run on Prem. And the same software runs on the Green Lake so you can actually pay as you go and you don't we run it for them in in a collar or or in their own data center. >>Oh, good. I was one of my latter questions, so I can get this as a service paid by the drink. Essentially, I don't have to install a bunch of stuff on Prem and pay >>a perpetual license container at the service and the service in the last Discover. And now it's gone production. So both MLRS is available. You can run it on friends on the top of Admiral Container platform or you can run inside of the Green Bay. >>Robert, are there any specific use case patterns that you see emerging amongst customers? >>Yeah, absolutely. So there's a couple of them. So we have a really nice relationship that we see with any of the Splunk operators that were out there today. Right? So Splunk containerized their operator. That operator is the number one operator, for example, for Splunk, um, in the i t operation side or notifications as well as on the security operation side. So we found that that runs highly effective on top of his moral on top of our platforms that we just talked about what, uh, Kumar just talked about, but I want to also give a little bit of backgrounds to that same operator platform. The way that the Admiral platform has done is that we've been able to make highly active, active with a check availability at 95 nines for that same spark operator on premises on the kubernetes open source, which is, as far as I'm concerned. Very, very high end computer science work. You understand how difficult that is? Uh, that's number one. Number two, you'll see spark just a spark. Workloads as a whole. All right. Nobody handles spark workloads like we do. So we put a container around them, and we put them inside the pipeline of moving people through that basic, uh uh, ml ai pipeline of getting a model through its system through its train and then actually deployed to our MLS pipeline. This is a key fundamental for delivering value in the data space as well. And then, lastly, this is This is really important. When you think about the data fabric that we offer, um, the data fabric itself, it doesn't necessarily have to be bolted with the container platform to container at the actual data. Fabric itself can be deployed underneath a number of our for competitive platforms who don't handle data. Well, we know that we know that they don't handle it very well at all. And we get lots and lots of calls for people say, Hey, can you take your as Merrill data for every and solve my large scale, highly challenging data problems, we say yes. And then when you're ready for a real world full time but enterprise already, container platform would be happy to privilege. >>So you're saying if I'm inferring correctly, you're one of the values? Is your simplifying that whole data pipeline and the whole data science science project? Unintended, I guess. >>Okay, >>that's so so >>absolutely So where does the customer start? I mean, what what are the engagements like? Um, what's the starting point? >>It's being is probably one of the most trusted enterprise supplier for many, many years, and we have a phenomenal workforce of the both. The PowerPoint next is one of the leading world leading support organization. There are many places to start with. The right one is Obviously all these services are available on the green leg as we just start apart and they can start on a pay as you go basis. We have many customers that. Actually, some of the grandfather from the early days of pleaded and map are and they're already running, and they actually improvised on when, as they move into their next generation modernization, um, you can start with simple as metal container platform with persist with the story compared to this operation and can implement as as little as $10 and to start working. Um, and finally, there is a a big company like HP E. As an enterprise company defined next services. It's very easy for the customers to be able to get that support on the day to operation. >>Thank you for watching everybody's day volonte for the Cube. Keep it right there for more great content from Esmeralda. >>A mhm, okay.

>>Welcome everyone to a day in the life of data with HPE as well. Data fabric, the session is being recorded and will be available for replay at a later time. When you want to come back and view it again, feel free to add any questions that you have into the chat. And Chad and I joined stark. We'll, we'll be more than willing to answer your questions. And now let me turn it over to Jimmy Bates. >>Thanks. Uh, let me go ahead and share my screen here and we'll get started. >>Hey everyone. Uh, once again, my name is Jimmy Bates. I'm a director of solutions architecture here for HPS Merle in the Americas. Uh, today I'd like to walk you through a journey on how our everyday life is evolving, how everything about our world continues to grow more connected about, and about how here at HPE, how we support the data that represents that digital evolution for our customers, with the HPE as rural data fabric to start with, let's define that term data. The concept of that data can be simplified to a record of life's events. No matter if it's personal professional or mechanical in nature, data is just records that represent and describe what has happened, what is happening or what we think will happen. And it turns out the more complete record we have of these events, the easier it is to figure out what comes next. >>Um, I like to refer to that as the omnipotence protocol. Um, let's look at this from a personal perspective of two very different people. Um, let me introduce you to James. He's a native citizen of the digital world. He's, he's been, he's been a citizen of this, uh, an a career professional in the it world for years. He's always on always connected. He loves to get all the information he needs on a smartphone. He works constantly with analytics. He predicts what his customers need, what they want, where they are, uh, and how best to reach them. Um, he's fully embraced the use of data in his life. This is Sue SCA. She's, she's a bit of a, um, of an opposite to James. She's not yet immigrated to our digital world. She's been dealing with the changes that are prevalent in our times. And she started a new business that allows her customers, the option of, um, of expressing their personalities and the mask that they wear. She wants to make sure her customers can upload images, logos, and designs in order to deliver that customized mask, uh, to brighten their interactions with others while being safe as they go about their day. But she needs a crash course in digital and the digital journey. She's recently as, as most of us have as transitioned from an office culture to a work from home culture, and she wants to continue to grow that revenue venture on the side >>At the core of these personalities is a journey that is, that is representative common challenge that we're all facing today. Our world has been steadily shrinking as our ability to reach out to one another has steadily increased. We're all on that journey together to know more about what is happening to be connected to what our business is doing to be instantly responsive to our customer needs and to deliver that personalized service to every individual. And it as moral, we see this across every industry, the challenge of providing tailored experiences to potential customers in a connected world to provide constant information on deliveries that we requested or provide an easier commute to our destination to, to change the inventories, um, to the just-in-time arrival for our fabrications to identify quality issues in real time to alter the production of each product. So it's tailored to the request of the end user to deliver energy in, in smarter, more efficient ways, uh, without injury w while protecting the environment and to identify those, those, uh, medical emerging threats, and to deliver those personalized treatments safely. >>And at the core of all of these changes, all of these different industries is data. Um, if you look at the major technology trends, um, they've been evolving down this path for some time now, we're we're well into our cloud journey. The mobile platform world is, is now just part of our core strategies. IOT is feeding constant streams of data often over those mobile, uh, platforms. And the edge is increasingly just part of our core, all of this combined with the massive amounts of data that's becoming, becoming available through it is driving autonomous solutions with machine learning and AI. Uh, this is, this is just one aspect of this, this data journey that we're on, but for success, it's got, uh, sorry for success. It's got to be paired. Um, it's gotta be paired with action. >>Um, >>Well, when you look at the, uh, um, if we take a look at James and Cisco, right, we can start to see, um, with the investments in those actions, um, how their travel they're realizing >>Their goals, >>Services, efforts, you know, uh, focused, deliver new data-driven applications are done in new ways that are smaller in nature and kind of rapidly iterate, um, to respond to the digital needs of, of our new world, um, containerization to deploy and manage those apps anywhere in our connected world, they need to be secure we'll time streaming architecture, um, from, from the, from the beginning to allow for continual interactions with our changing customer demands and all of this, especially in our current environment, while running cost reduction initiatives. This is just the current world that, that our solutions must live in. Um, with that framework in mind, um, I'd like to take the remainder of our time and kind of walk through some of the use cases where, where we at HPE helped organizations through this journey with, with, with the ASML data fabrics, >>Let's >>Start with what's happening in the mobile world. In fact, the HPE as moral data fabric is being used by a number of companies to provide infinitely personalized experiences. In this case, it could be James could be sushi. It could be anyone that opens up their smartphone in the morning, uh, quickly checking what's transpiring in the world with a selection of curated, relative relevant articles, images, and videos provided by data-driven algorithm workloads, all that data, the logs, the recommendations, and the delivery of those recommendations are done through a variety of companies using HP as rural software, um, that provides a very personalized experience for our users. In addition, other companies monitor the service quality of those mobile devices to ensure optimize connectivity as they move throughout their day. The same is true for digital communication for that video communication, what we're doing right now, especially in these days where it's our primary method of connecting as we deal with limited physical engagements. Um, there's been a clear spike in the usage of these types of services. HPE, as Merle is helping a number of these companies deliver on real time telemetry analysis, predicting demand, latency, monitoring, user experience, and analyzing in real time, responding with autonomous adjustments to maintain pleasant experiences for all participants involved. >>Um, >>Another area, um, we're eight or HBS ML data fabric is playing a crucial role in the daily experience inside our automobiles. We invest a lot of ourselves in our cars. We expect tailored experiences that help us stay safe and connected as we move from one destination to another, in the areas of autonomous driving connected car, a number of major car companies in the world are using our data fabric to take autonomous driving to the next level where it should be effectively collecting all data from sensors and cameras, and then feeding that back into a global data fabric. So that engineers that develop cars can train next generation, future driving algorithms that make our driving experience safer and more autonomy going forward. >>Now let's take a look at a different mode of travel. Uh, the airline industry is being impaired. Varied is being impacted very differently today from, from the car companies, with our software, uh, we help airlines travel agencies, and even us as consumers deal with pricing, calculations and challenges, uh, with, um, air traffic services. We, we deal with, um, um, uh, delivering services around route predictions on time arrivals, weather patterns, and tagging and tracking luggage. We help people with flight connections and finding out what the figuring out what the best options are for your, for your travel. Uh, we collect mountains of data, secure it in a global data fabric, so it can provide, be provided back in an analyzed form with it. The stressed industry can contain some very interesting insights, provide competitive offerings and better services to us as travelers. >>This is also true for powering biometrics. At scale, we work with the biggest biometrics databases in the world, providing the back end for their enormous biometric authentication pursuit. Just to kind of give you a rough idea. A biometric authentication is done with a number of different data points from fingerprints. I re scans numerous facial features. All of these data points are captured for every individual and uploaded into the database, such that when the user is requesting services, their biometric metrics can be pooled and validated in seconds. From a scale perspective, they're onboarding 1 million people a day more than 200 million a year with a hundred percent business continuity and the options do multi-master and a global data fabric as needed ensuring that users will have no issues in securely accessing their pension payouts medical services or what other types of services. They may be guaranteed >>Pivoting >>To a very different industry. Even agriculture was being impacted in digital ways. Using HPE as well, data fabric, we help farmers become more digital. We help them predict weather patterns, optimize sea production. We even helped see producers create custom seed for very specific weather and ground conditions. We combine all of these things to help optimize production and ensure we can feed future generations. In some cases, all of these data sources collected at the edge can be provided back to insurance companies to help farmers issue claims when micro patterns affect farmers in negative ways, we all benefit from optimized farming and the HBS Modena fabric is there to assist in that journey. We provide the framework and the workload guidance to collect relevant data, analyze it and optimize food production. Our customers demonstrate the agricultural industry is most definitely my immigrating to our digital world. >>Now >>That we've got the food, we need to ship it along with everything else, all over the world, as well as offer can be found in action in many of the largest logistics companies in the world. I mean, just tracking things with greater efficiency can lead to astounding insights. What flights and ships did the package take? What Hans held it along its journey, what weather conditions did it encounter? What, what customs office did it go through and, and how much of it's requested and being delivered this along with hundreds of other telemetry points can be used to provide very accurate trade and economic predictions around what's going on with trade in the world. These data sets are being used very intensively to understand economy conditions and plan for future event consequences. We also help answer, uh, questions for shipping containers that are, that are more basic. Uh, like where is my container located at is my container still on the correct ship? Uh, surprisingly, uh, this helps cut down on those pesky little events like lost containers. >>Um, it's astounding the amount of data that's in DNA, and it's not just the pairs. It's, it's the never ending patterns found with other patterns that none of it can be fully understood unless the micro is maintained in context to the macro. You can't really understand these small patterns unless you maintain that overall understanding of the entire DNA structure to help the HVS mold data fabric can be found across every aspect of the medical field. Most recently was there providing the software framework to collect genomic sequencing, landing it in the data fabric, empowering connected availability for analysis to predict and find patterns of significance to shorten the effort it takes to identify those potential triggers and make things like vaccines become becoming available. In record time. >>Data is about people at HPE asthma. We keep people connected all around the world. We do this in a variety of ways. We we've already looked at several of the ways that that happens. We help you find data. You need, we help you get from point a to point B. We help make sure those birthday gifts show up on time. Some other interesting ways we connect people via recipes, through social platforms and online services. We help people connect to that new recipe that is unexpected, but may just be the kind of thing you need for dinner tonight at HPDs where we provide our customers with the power to deliver services that are tailored to the individual from edge to core, from containers to cloud. Many of the services you encounter everyday are delivered to you through an HV as oral global data fabric. You may not see it, but we're there in the morning in the morning when you get up and we're there in the evening. Um, when you wind down, um, at HPE as role, we make data globally available across everywhere that your business needs to go. Um, I'd like to thank everyone, uh, for the time that you've given us today. And I'd like to turn it back over and open up the floor for questions at this time, >>Jimmy, here's a question. What are the ways consumers can get started with HPS >>The fabric? Well, um, uh, there's several ways to get started, right? We, we, uh, first off we have software available that you can download that there's extensive documentation and use cases posted on our website. Um, uh, we have services that we offer, like, um, assessment services that can come in and help you assess the, the data challenges that you're having, whether you're, you're just dealing with a scale issue, a security issue, or trying to migrate to a more containerized approach. We have a services to help you come in, assess that aspect. Um, we have a getting started bundles, um, and we have, um, so there's all kinds of services that, that help you get started on your journey. So what >>Does a typical first deployment look like? >>Well, that's, that's a very, very interesting question. Um, a typical first deployment, it really kind of varies depending on where you're at in the material. Are you James? Are you, um, um, Cisco, right? It really depends on, on where you're at in your journey. Um, but a typical deployment, um, is, is, is involved. Uh, we, we like to come in, we we'd like to do workshops, really understand your specific challenges and problems so that we can determine what solutions are best for you. Um, that to take a look at when we kind of settle on that we, we, um, the first deployment, uh, is, um, there's typically, um, a deployment of, uh, a, uh, a service offering, um, w with a software to kind of get you started along the way we kind of bundle that aspect. Um, as you move forward, if you're more mature and you already have existing container solutions, you already have existing, large scale data aspects of it. Um, it's really about the specific use case of your current problem that you're dealing with. Um, every solution, um, is tailored towards the individual challenges and problems that, that each one of us are facing. >>I break, they mentioned as part of the asthma family. So how does data fabric pair with the other solutions within Israel? >>Well, so I like to say there's, um, there, there's, there's three main areas, um, from a software standpoint, um, for when you count some of our, um, offerings with the GreenLake solution, but there are, so there are really four main areas with ESMO. There's the data fabric offering, which is really focused on, on, on, on delivering that data at scale for AI ML workloads for big data workloads for containerized workloads. There is the ESMO container platform, which really solves a lot of, um, some of the same problems, but really focus more on a compute delivery, uh, and a hundred percent Kubernetes environment. We also have security offerings, um, which, which help you take in this containerized world, uh, that help you take the different aspects of, um, securing those applications. Um, so that when the application, the containerized applications move from one framework or one infrastructure from one to the other, it really helps those, the security go with those applications so that they can operate in a zero trust environment. And of course, all of this, uh, options of being available to you, where everything has a service, including the hardware through some of our GreenLake offerings. So those are kind of the areas that, uh, um, that pair with the HPE, um, data fabric, uh, when you look at the entire ESMO pro portfolio. >>Well, thanks, Jimmy really appreciate it. That's all the questions we have right now. So is there anything that you'd like to close with? >>Uh, you know, the, um, I I'm, I find it I'm very, uh, I'm honored to be here at HPE. Um, I, I really find it, it's amazing. Uh, as we work with our customers solving some really challenging problems that are core to their business, um, it's, it's always an interesting, um, interesting, um, day in the office because, uh, every problem is different because every problem is tailored to the specific challenges that our customers face. Um, while they're all will well, we will, what we went over today is a lot of the general areas and the general concepts that we're all on together in a journey, but the devil's always in the details. It's about understanding the specific challenges in the organization and, and as moral software is designed to help adapt, um, and, and empower your growth in your, in your company. So that you're focused on your business, in the complexity of delivering services across this connected world. That's what as will takes off your plate so that you don't have to worry about that. It just works, and you can focus on the things that impact your business more directly. >>Okay. Well, we really thank everyone for coming today and hope you learned, uh, an idea about how data fabric can begin to help your business with it. All of a sudden analytics, thank you for coming. Thanks.

(upbeat music) >> Welcome friends to HPE Ezmeral's analytics unleashed. I couldn't be more excited to have you here today. We have a packed and informative agenda. It's going to give you not just a perspective on what HPE Ezmeral is and what it can do for your organization, but you should leave here with some insights and perspectives that will help you on your edge to cloud data journey in general. The lineup we have today is awesome. We have industry experts like Kirk Borne, who's going to talk about the shape this space will take to key customers and partners who are using Ezmeral technology as a fundamental part of their stack to solve really big, hairy, complex real data problems. We will hear from the execs who are leading this effort to understand the strategy and roadmap forward as well as give you a sneak peek into the new ISV ecosystem that is hosted in the Ezmeral marketplace. And finally, we have some live music being played in the form of three different demos. There's going to be a fun time so do jump in and chat with us at any time or engage with us on Twitter in real time. So grab some coffee, buckle up and let's get going. (upbeat music) Getting data right is one of the top priorities for organizations to affect digital strategy. So right now we're going to dig into the challenges customers face when trying to deploy enterprise wide data strategies and with me to unpack this topic is Kirk Borne, principal data scientist, and executive advisor, Booz Allen Hamilton. Kirk, great to see you. Thank you sir, for coming into the program. >> Great to be here, Dave. >> So hey, enterprise scale data science and engineering initiatives, they're non-trivial. What do you see as some of the challenges in scaling data science and data engineering ops? >> The first challenge is just getting it out of the sandbox because so many organizations, they, they say let's do cool things with data, but how do you take it out of that sort of play phase into an operational phase? And so being able to do that is one of the biggest challenges, and then being able to enable that for many different use cases then creates an enormous challenge because do you replicate the technology and the team for each individual use case or can you unify teams and technologies to satisfy all possible use cases. So those are really big challenges for companies organizations everywhere to about. >> What about the idea of, you know, industrializing those those data operations? I mean, what does that, what does that mean to you? Is that a security connotation, a compliance? How do you think about it? >> It's actually, all of those I'm industrialized to me is sort of like, how do you not make it a one-off but you make it a sort of a reproducible, solid risk compliant and so forth system that can be reproduced many different times. And again, using the same infrastructure and the same analytic tools and techniques but for many different use cases. So we don't have to rebuild the wheel, reinvent the wheel re reinvent the car. So to speak every time you need a different type of vehicle you need to build a car or a truck or a race car. There's some fundamental principles that are common to all of those. And that's what that industrialization is. And it includes security compliance with regulations and all those things but it also means just being able to scale it out to to new opportunities beyond the ones that you dreamed of when you first invented the thing. >> Yeah. Data by its very nature as you well know, it's distributed, but for a you've been at this awhile for years we've been trying to sort of shove everything into a monolithic architecture and in in hardening infrastructures or around that. And in many organizations it's become a block to actually getting stuff done. But so how, how are you seeing things like the edge emerge How do you, how do you think about the edge? How do you see that evolving and how do you think customers should be dealing with with edge and edge data? >> Well, that's really kind of interesting. I had many years at NASA working on data systems, and back in those days, the idea was you would just put all the data in a big data center and then individual scientists would retrieve that data and do analytics on it do their analysis on their local computer. And you might say that's sort of like edge analytics so to speak because they're doing analytics at their home computer, but that's not what edge means. It means actually doing the analytics the insights discovery at the point of data collection. And so that's that's really real time business decision-making you don't bring the data back and then try to figure out some time in the future what to do. And I think in autonomous vehicles a good example of why you don't want to do that because if you collect data from all the cameras and radars and lidars that are on a self-driving car and you move that data back to a data cloud while the car is driving down the street and let's say a child walks in front of the car you send all the data back at computes and does some object recognition and pattern detection. And 10 minutes later, it sends a message to the car. Hey, you need to put your brakes off. Well, it's a little kind of late at that point. And so you need to make those discoveries those insight discoveries, those pattern discoveries and hence the proper decisions from the patterns in the data at the point of data collection. And so that's data analytics at the edge. And so, yes, you can ring the data back to a central cloud or distributed cloud. It almost doesn't even matter if, if if your data is distributed sort of any use case in any data scientist or any analytic team and the business can access it then what you really have is a data mesh or a data fabric that makes it accessible at the point that you need it, whether it's at the edge or on some static post event processing, for example typical business quarter reporting takes a long look at your last three months of business. Well, that's fine in that use case, but you can't do that for a lot of other real time analytic decision making. >> Well, that's interesting. I mean, it sounds like you think of the edge not as a place, but as you know where it makes sense to actually, you know the first opportunity, if you will, to process the data at at low latency where it needs to be low latency is that a good way to think about it? >> Yeah, absolutely. It's the low latency that really matters. Sometimes we think we're going to solve that with things like 5G networks. We're going to be able to send data really fast across the wire. But again, that self-driving car has yet another example because what if you, all of a sudden the network drops out you still need to make the right decision with the network not even being . >> That darn speed of light problem. And so you use this term data mesh or data fabric double-click on that. What do you mean by that? >> Well, for me, it's, it's, it's, it's sort of a unified way of thinking about all your data. And when I think of mesh, I think of like a weaving on a loom, or you're creating a blanket or a cloth and you do weaving and you do that all that cross layering of the different threads. And so different use cases in different applications in different techniques can make use of this one fabric no matter what, where it is in the, in the business or again, if it's at the edge or, or back at the office one unified fabric, which has a global namespace. So anyone can access the data they need and sort of uniformly no matter where they're using it. And so it's, it's a way of unifying all of the data and use cases and sort of a virtual environment that it could have that no log you need to worry about. So what's what's the actual file name or what's the actual server this thing is on you can just do that for whatever use case you have. Let's I think it helps you enterprises now to reach a stage which I like to call the self-driving enterprise. Okay. So it's modeled after the self-driving car. So the self-driving enterprise needs the business leaders in the business itself, you would say needs to make decisions oftentimes in real time. All right. And so you need to do sort of predictive modeling and cognitive awareness of the context of what's going on. So all of these different data sources enable you to do all those things with data. And so, for example, any kind of a decision in a business any kind of decision in life, I would say is a prediction. It's you say to yourself if I do this such and such will happen if I do that, this other thing will happen. So a decision is always based upon a prediction about outcomes, and you want to optimize that outcome. So both predictive and prescriptive analytics need to happen in this in this same stream of data and not statically afterwards. And so that's, self-driving enterprises enabled by having access to data wherever you and whenever you need it. And that's what that fabric, that data fabric and data mesh provides for you, at least in my opinion. >> Well, so like carrying that analogy like the self-driving vehicle you're abstracting that complexity away in in this metadata layer that understands whether it's on prem or in the public cloud or across clouds or at the edge where the best places to process that data. What makes sense, does it make sense to move it or not? Ideally, I don't have to. Is that how you're thinking about it is that why we need this notion of a data fabric >> Right. It really abstracts away all the sort of the complexity that the it aspects of the job would require, but not every person in the business is going to have that familiarity with with the servers and the access protocols and all kinds of it related things. And so abstracting that away. And that's in some sense, what containers do basically the containers abstract away all the information about servers and connectivity and protocols and all this kind of thing. You just want to deliver some data to an analytic module that delivers me an insight or a prediction. I don't need to think about all those other things. And so that abstraction really makes it empowering for the entire organization. We like to talk a lot about data democratization and analytics democratization. This really gives power to every person in the organization to do things without becoming an it expert. >> So the last, last question we have time for here. So it sounds like. Kirk, the next 10 years of data are not going to be like the last 10 years, it'd be quite different. >> I think so. I think we're moving to this. Well, first of all, we're going to be focused way more on the why question, like, why are we doing this stuff? The more data we collect, we need to know why we're doing it. And what are the phrases I've seen a lot in the past year which I think is going to grow in importance in the next 10 years is observability. So observability to me is not the same as monitoring. Some people say monitoring is what we do. But what I like to say is, yeah, that's what you do but why you do it is observability. You have to have a strategy. Why, what, why am I collecting this data? Why am I collecting it here? Why am I collecting it at this time resolution? And so, so getting focused on those, why questions create be able to create targeted analytics solutions for all kinds of diff different business problems. And so it really focuses it on small data. So I think the latest Gartner data and analytics trending reports, so we're going to see a lot more focus on small data in the near future >> Kirk borne. You're a dot connector. Thanks so much for coming on the cube and being a part of the program. >> My pleasure (upbeat music) (relaxing upbeat music)

>> Hello, everyone. Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of "Compute Engineered for your Hybrid World," sponsored by HPE and Intel. Today we're going to discuss the new 4th Gen Intel Xeon Scalable process impact on containers and AI. I'm John Furrier, your host of theCUBE, and I'm joined by three experts to guide us along. We have Jordan Plum, Senior Director of AI and products for Intel, Bradley Sweeney, Big Data and AI Product Manager, Mainstream Compute Workloads at HPE, and Gary Wang, Containers Product Manager, Mainstream Compute Workloads at HPE. Welcome to the program gentlemen. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks John. >> Thank you for having us. >> This segment is going to be talking about containers to deploy high performance AI applications. This is a really important area right now. We're seeing a lot more AI deployed, kind of next gen AI coming. How is HPE supporting and testing and delivering containers for AI? >> Yeah, so what we're doing from HPE's perspective is we're taking these container platforms, combining with the next generation Intel servers to fully validate the deployment of the containers. So what we're doing is we're publishing the reference architectures. We're creating these automation scripts, and also creating a monitoring and security strategy for these container platforms. So for customers to easily deploy these Kubernete clusters and to easily secure their community environments. >> Gary, give us a quick overview of the new Proliant DL 360 and 380 Gen 11 servers. >> Yeah, the load, for example, for container platforms what we're seeing mostly is the DL 360 and DL 380 for matching really well for container use cases, especially for AI. The DL 360, with the expended now the DDR five memory and the new PCI five slots really, really helps the speeds to deploy these container environments and also to grow the data that's required to store it within these container environments. So for example, like the DL 380 if you want to deploy a data fabric whether it's the Ezmeral data fabric or different vendors data fabric software you can do so with the DL 360 and DL 380 with the new Intel Xeon processors. >> How does HP help customers with Kubernetes deployments? >> Yeah, like I mentioned earlier so we do a full validation to ensure the container deployment is easy and it's fast. So we create these automation scripts and then we publish them on GitHub for customers to use and to reference. So they can take that and then they can adjust as they need to. But following the deployment guide that we provide will make the, deploy the community deployment much easier, much faster. So we also have demo videos that's also published and then for reference architecture document that's published to guide the customer step by step through the process. >> Great stuff. Thanks everyone. We'll be going to take a quick break here and come back. We're going to do a deep dive on the fourth gen Intel Xeon scalable process and the impact on AI and containers. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in tech coverage. We'll be right back. (intense music) Hey, welcome back to theCUBE's continuing coverage of "Compute Engineered for your Hybrid World" series. I'm John Furrier with the Cube, joined by Jordan Plum with Intel, Bradley Sweeney with HPE, and Gary Wang from HPE. We're going to do a drill down and do a deeper dive into the AI containers with the fourth gen Intel Xeon scalable processors we appreciate your time coming in. Jordan, great to see you. I got to ask you right out of the gate, what is the view right now in terms of Intel's approach to containers for AI? It's hot right now. AI is booming. You're seeing kind of next gen use cases. What's your approach to containers relative to AI? >> Thanks John and thanks for the question. With the fourth generation Xeon scalable processor launch we have tested and validated this platform with over 400 deep learning and machine learning models and workloads. These models and workloads are publicly available in the framework repositories and they can be downloaded by anybody. Yet customers are not only looking for model validation they're looking for model performance and performance is usually a combination of a given throughput at a target latency. And to do that in the data center all the way to the factory floor, this is not always delivered from these generic proxy models that are publicly available in the industry. >> You know, performance is critical. We're seeing more and more developers saying, "Hey, I want to go faster on a better platform, faster all the time." No one wants to run slower stuff, that's for sure. Can you talk more about the different container approaches Intel is pursuing? >> Sure. First our approach is to meet the customers where they are and help them build and deploy AI everywhere. Some customers just want to focus on deployment they have more mature use cases, and they just want to download a model that works that's high performing and run. Others are really focused more on development and innovation. They want to build and train models from scratch or at least highly customize them. Therefore we have several container approaches to accelerate the customer's time to solution and help them meet their business SLA along their AI journey. >> So what developers can just download these containers and just go? >> Yeah, so let me talk about the different kinds of containers we have. We start off with pre-trained containers. We'll have about 55 or more of these containers where the model is actually pre-trained, highly performant, some are optimized for low latency, others are optimized for throughput and the customers can just download these from Intel's website or from HPE and they can just go into production right away. >> That's great. A lot of choice. People can just get jump right in. That's awesome. Good, good choice for developers. They want more faster velocity. We know that. What else does Intel provide? Can you share some thoughts there? What you guys else provide developers? >> Yeah, so we talked about how hey some are just focused on deployment and they maybe they have more mature use cases. Other customers really want to do some more customization or optimization. So we have another class of containers called development containers and this includes not just the kind of a model itself but it's integrated with the framework and some other capabilities and techniques like model serving. So now that customers can download just not only the model but an entire AI stack and they can be sort of do some optimizations but they can also be sure that Intel has optimized that specific stack on top of the HPE servers. >> So it sounds simple to just get started using the DL model and containers. Is that it? Where, what else are customers looking for? What can you take a little bit deeper? >> Yeah, not quite. Well, while the customer customer's ability to reproduce performance on their site that HPE and Intel have measured in our own labs is fantastic. That's not actually what the customer is only trying to do. They're actually building very complex end-to-end AI pipelines, okay? And a lot of data scientists are really good at building models, really good at building algorithms but they're less experienced in building end-to-end pipelines especially 'cause the number of use cases end-to-end are kind of infinite. So we are building end-to-end pipeline containers for use cases like media analytics and sentiment analysis, anomaly detection. Therefore a customer can download these end-to-end containers, right? They can either use them as a reference, just like, see how we built them and maybe they have some changes in their own data center where they like to use different tools, but they can just see, "Okay this is what's possible with an end-to-end container on top of an HPE server." And other cases they could actually, if the overlap in the use case is pretty close, they can just take our containers and go directly into production. So this provides developers, all three types of containers that I discussed provide developers an easy starting point to get them up and running quickly and make them productive. And that's a really important point. You talked a lot about performance, John. But really when we talk to data scientists what they really want to be is productive, right? They're under pressure to change the business to transform the business and containers is a great way to get started fast >> People take product productivity, you know, seriously now with developer productivity is the hottest trend obviously they want performance. Totally nailed it. Where can customers get these containers? >> Right. Great, thank you John. Our pre-trained model containers, our developmental containers, and our end-to-end containers are available at intel.com at the developer catalog. But we'd also post these on many third party marketplaces that other people like to pull containers from. And they're frequently updated. >> Love the developer productivity angle. Great stuff. We've still got more to discuss with Jordan, Bradley, and Gary. We're going to take a short break here. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. We'll be right back. (intense music) Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of "Compute Engineered for your Hybrid World." I'm John Furrier with theCUBE and we'll be discussing and wrapping up our discussion on containers to deploy high performance AI. This is a great segment on really a lot of demand for AI and the applications involved. And we got the fourth gen Intel Xeon scalable processors with HP Gen 11 servers. Bradley, what is the top AI use case that Gen 11 HP Proliant servers are optimized for? >> Yeah, thanks John. I would have to say intelligent video analytics. It's a use case that's supplied across industries and verticals. For example, a smart hospital solution that we conducted with Nvidia and Artisight in our previous customer success we've seen 5% more hospital procedures, a 16 times return on investment using operating room coordination. With that IVA, so with the Gen 11 DL 380 that we provide using the the Intel four gen Xeon processors it can really support workloads at scale. Whether that is a smart hospital solution whether that's manufacturing at the edge security camera integration, we can do it all with Intel. >> You know what's really great about AI right now you're starting to see people starting to figure out kind of where the value is does a lot of the heavy lifting on setting things up to make humans more productive. This has been clearly now kind of going neck level. You're seeing it all in the media now and all these new tools coming out. How does HPE make it easier for customers to manage their AI workloads? I imagine there's going to be a surge in demand. How are you guys making it easier to manage their AI workloads? >> Well, I would say the biggest way we do this is through GreenLake, which is our IT as a service model. So customers deploying AI workloads can get fully-managed services to optimize not only their operations but also their spending and the cost that they're putting towards it. In addition to that we have our Gen 11 reliance servers equipped with iLO 6 technology. What this does is allows customers to securely manage their server complete environment from anywhere in the world remotely. >> Any last thoughts or message on the overall fourth gen intel Xeon based Proliant Gen 11 servers? How they will improve workload performance? >> You know, with this generation, obviously the performance is only getting ramped up as the needs and requirements for customers grow. We partner with Intel to support that. >> Jordan, gimme the last word on the container's effect on AI applications. Your thoughts as we close out. >> Yeah, great. I think it's important to remember that containers themselves don't deliver performance, right? The AI stack is a very complex set of software that's compiled together and what we're doing together is to make it easier for customers to get access to that software, to make sure it all works well together and that it can be easily installed and run on sort of a cloud native infrastructure that's hosted by HPE Proliant servers. Hence the title of this talk. How to use Containers to Deploy High Performance AI Applications. Thank you. >> Gentlemen. Thank you for your time on the Compute Engineered for your Hybrid World sponsored by HPE and Intel. Again, I love this segment for AI applications Containers to Deploy Higher Performance. This is a great topic. Thanks for your time. >> Thank you. >> Thanks John. >> Okay, I'm John. We'll be back with more coverage. See you soon. (soft music)

>> TheCUBE presents HPE Discover 2022 brought to you by HPE. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2022. We're here at the Venetian convention center in Las Vegas Dave Vellante for John Furrier. Cam Amirs here is the director of technical alliances at Cribl'. Cam, good to see you. >> Good to see you too. >> Cribl'. Cool name. Tell us about it. >> So let's see. Cribl' has been around now for about five years selling products for the last two years. Fantastic company, lots of growth, started there 2020 and we're roughly 400 employees now. >> And what do you do? Tell us more. >> Yeah, sure. So I run the technical alliances team and what we do is we basically look to build integrations into platforms such as HPE GreenLake and Ezmeral. And we also work with a lot of other companies to help get data from various sources into their destinations or, you know other enrichments of data in that data pipeline. >> You know, you guys have been on theCUBE. Clint's been on many times, Ed Bailey was on our startup showcase. You guys are successful in this overfunded observability space. So, so you guys have a unique approach. Tell us about why you guys are successful in the product and some of the things you've been doing there. >> Yeah, absolutely. So our product is very complimentary to a lot of the technologies that already exist. And I used to joke around that everyone has these like pretty dashboards and reports but they completely glaze over the fact that it's not easy to get the data from those sources to their destinations. So for us, it's this capability with Cribl' Stream to get that data easily and repeatably into these destinations. >> Yeah. You know, Cam, you and I are both at the Snowflake Summit to John's point. They were like a dozen observability companies there. >> Oh yeah. >> And really beginning to be a crowded space. So explain what value you bring to that ecosystem. >> Yeah, sure. So the ecosystem that we see there is there are a lot of people that are kind of sticking to like effectively getting data and showing you dashboards reports about monitoring and things of that sort. For us, the value is how can we help customers kind of accelerate their adoption of these platforms, how to go from like your legacy SIM or your legacy monitoring solution to like the next-gen observability platform or next-gen security platform >> and what you do really well is the integration and bringing those other toolings to, to do that? >> Correct, correct. And we make it repeatable. >> How'd you end up here? >> HP? So we actually had a customer that actually deployed our software on the HPS world platform. And it was kind of a light bulb moment that, okay this is actually a different approach than going to your traditional, you know, AWS, Google, et cetera. So we decided to kind of hunt this down and figure out how we could be a bigger player in this space. >> You saw the data fabric announcement? I'm not crazy about the term, data fabric is an old NetApp term, and then Gartner kind of twisted it. I like data mesh, but anyway, it doesn't matter. We kind of know what it is, but but when you see an announcement like that how do you look at it? You know, what does it mean to to Cribl' and your customers? >> Yeah. So what we've seen is that, so we work with the data fabric team and we're able to kind of route our data to their, as a data lake, so we can actually route the data from, again all these very sources into this data lake and then have it available for whatever customers want to do with it. So one of the big things that I know Clint talks about is we give customers this, we sell choice. So we give them the ability to choose where they want to send their data, whether that's, you know HP's data lake and data fabric or some other object store or some other destination. They have that choice to do so. >> So you're saying that you can stream with any destination the customer wants? What are some examples? What are the popular destinations? >> Yeah so a lot of the popular destinations are your typical object stores. So any of your cloud object stores, whether it be AWS three, Google cloud storage or Azure blob storage. >> Okay. And so, and you can pull data from any source? >> Laughter: I'd be very careful, but absolutely. What we've seen is that a lot of people like to kind of look at traditional data sources like Syslog and they want to get it to us, a next-gen SIM, but to do so it needs to be converted to like a web hook or some sort of API call. And so, or vice versa, they have this brand new Zscaler for example, and they want to get that data into their SIM but there's no way to do it 'cause a SIM only accepts it as a Syslog event. So what we can do is we actually transform the data and make it so that it lands into that SIM in the format that it needs to be and easily make that a repeatable process >> So, okay. So wait, so not as a Syslog event but in whatever format the destination requires? >> Correct, correct. >> Okay. What are the limits on that? I mean, is this- >> Yeah. So what we've seen is that customers will be able to take, for example they'll take this Syslog event, it's unstructured data but they need to put it into say common information model for Splunk or Elastic common schema for Elastic search or just JSON format for Elastic. And so what we can do is we can actually convert those events so that they land in that transformed state, but we can also route a copy of that event in unharmed fashion, to like an S3 bucket for object store for that long term compliance user >> You can route it to any, basically any object store. Is that right? Is that always the sort of target? >> Correct, correct. >> So on the message here at HPE, first of all I'll get to the marketplace point in a second, but it's cloud to edge is kind of their theme. So data streaming sounds expensive. I mean, you know so how do you guys deal with the streaming egress issue? What does that mean to customers? You guys claim that you can save money on that piece. It's a hotly contested discussion point. >> Laughter: So one of the things that we actually just announced in our 350 release yesterday is the capability of getting data from Windows events, or from Windows hosts, I'm sorry. So a product that we also have is called Cribl' Edge. So our capability of being able to collect data from the edge and then transit it out to whether it be an on-prem, or self-hosted deployment of Cribl', or or maybe some sort of other destination object store. What we do is we actually take the data in in transit and reduce the volume of events. So we can do things like remove white space or remove events that are not really needed and compress or optimize that data so that the egress cost to your point are actually lowered. >> And your data reduction approach is, is compression? It's a compression algorithm? >> So it is a combination, yeah, so it's a combination. So there's some people what they'll do is they'll aggregate the events. So sometimes for example, VPC flow logs are very chatty and you don't need to have all those events. So instead you convert those to metrics. So suddenly you reduced those events from, you know high volume events to metrics that are so small and you still get the same value 'cause you still see the trends and everything. And if later on down the road, you need to reinvestigate those events, you can rehydrate that data with Cribl' replay >> And you'll do the streaming in real time, is that right? >> Yeah. >> So Kafka, is that what you would use? Or other tooling? >> Laughter: So we are complimentary to a Kafka deployment. Customer's already deployed and they've invested in Kafka, We can read off of Kafka and feed back into Kafka. >> If not, you can use your tooling? >> If not, we can be replacing that. >> Okay talk about your observations in the multi-cloud hybrid world because hybrid obviously everyone knows it's a steady state now. On public cloud, on premise edge all one thing, cloud operations, DevOps, data as code all the things we talk about. What's the customer view? You guys have a unique position. What's going on in the customer base? How are they looking at hybrid and specifically multi-cloud, is it stitching together multiple hybrids? Or how do you guys work across those landscapes? >> So what we've seen is a lot of customers are in multiple clouds. That's, you know, that's going to happen. But what we've seen is that if they want to egress data from say one cloud to another the way that we've architected our solution is that we have these worker nodes that reside within these hybrid, these other cloud event these other clouds, I should say so that transmitting data, first egress costs are lowered, but being able to have this kind of, easy way to collect the data and also stitch it back together, join it back together, to a single place or single location is one option that we offer customers. Another solution that we've kind of announced recently is Search. So not having to move the data from all these disparate data sources and data lakes and actually just search the data in place. That's another capability that we think is kind of popular in this hybrid approach. >> And talk about now your relationship with HPE you guys obviously had customers that drove you to Greenlake, obviously what's your experience with them and also talk about the marketplace presence. Is that new? How long has that been going on? Have you seen any results? >> Yeah, so we've actually just started our, our journey into this HPE world. So the first thing was obviously the customer's bringing us into this ecosystem and now our capabilities of, I guess getting ready to be on the marketplace. So having a presence on the marketplace has been huge giving us kind of access to just people that don't even know who we are, being that we're, you know a five year old company. So it's really good to have that exposure. >> So you're going to get customers out of this? >> That's the idea. [Laughter] >> Bring in new market, that's the idea of their GreenLake is that partners fill in. What's your impression so far of GreenLake? Because there seems to be great momentum around HP and opening up their channel their sales force, their customer base. >> Yeah. So it's been very beneficial for us, again being a smaller company and we are a channel first company so that obviously helps, you know bring out the word with other channel partners. But HP has been very, you know open arm kind of getting us into the system into the ecosystem and obviously talking, or giving the good word about Cribl' to their customers. >> So, so you'll be monetizing on GreenLake, right? That's the, the goal. >> That's the goal. >> What do you have to do to get into a position? Obviously, you got a relationship you're in the marketplace. Do you have to, you know, write to their API's or do you just have to, is that a checkbox? Describe what you have to do to monetize. >> Sure. So we have to first get validated on the platform. So the validation process validates that we can work on the Ezmeral GreenLake platform. Once that's been completed, then the idea is to have our logo show up on the marketplace. So customers say, Hey, look, I need to have a way to get transit data or do stuff with data specifically around logs, metrics, and traces into my logging solution or my SIM. And then what we do with them on the back end is we'll see this transaction occur right to their API to basically say who this customer is. 'Cause again, the idea is to have almost a zero touch kind of involvement, but we will actually have that information given to us. And then we can actually monetize on top of it. >> And the visualization component will come from the observability vendor. Is that right? Or is that somewhat, do you guys do some of that? >> So the visualization is right now we're basically just the glue that gets the data to the visualization engine. As we kind of grow and progress our search product that's what will probably have more of a visualization component. >> Do you think your customers are going to predominantly use an observability platform for that visualization? I mean, obviously you're going to get there. Are they going to use Grafana? Or some other tool? >> Or yeah, I think a lot of customers, obviously, depending on what data and what they're trying to accomplish they will have that choice now to choose, you know Grafana for their metrics, logs, et cetera or some sort of security product for their security events but same data, two different kind of use cases. And we can help enable that. >> Cam, I want to ask you a question. You mentioned you were at Splunk and Clint, the CEO and co-founder, was at Splunk too. That brings up the question I want to get your perspective on, we're seeing a modern network here with HPE, with Aruba, obviously clouds kind of going next level you got on premises, edge, all one thing, distributed computing basically, cyber security, a data problem that's solved a lot by you guys and people in this business, making sure data available machine learnings are growing and powering AI like you read about. What's changed in this business? Because you know, Splunking logs is kind of old hat you know, and now you got observability. Unification is a big topic. What's changed now? What's different about the market today around data and these platforms and, and tools? What's your perspective on that? >> I think one of the biggest things is people have seen the amount of volume of data that's coming in. When I was at Splunk, when we hit like a one terabyte deal that was a big deal. Now it's kind of standard. You're going to do a terabyte of data per day. So one of the big things I've seen is just the explosion of data growth, but getting value out of that data is very difficult. And that's kind of why we exist because getting all that volume of data is one thing. But being able to actually assert value from it, that's- >> And that's the streaming core product? That's the whole? >> Correct. >> Get data to where it needs to be for whatever application needs whether it's cyber or something else. >> Correct, correct. >> What's the customer uptake? What's the customer base like for you guys now? How many, how many customers you guys have? What are they doing with the data? What are some of the common things you're seeing? >> Yeah. I mean, it's, it's the basic blocking and tackling, we've significantly grown our customer base and they all have the same problem. They come to us and say, look, I just need to get data from here to there. And literally the routing use case is our biggest use case because it's simple and you take someone that's a an expensive engineer and operations engineer instead of having them going and doing the plumbing of data of just getting logs from one source to another, we come in and actually make that a repeatable process and make that easy. And so that's kind of just our very basic value add right from the get go. >> You can automate that, automate that, make it repeatable. Say what's in the name? Where'd the name come from? >> So Cribl', if you look it up, it's actually kind of an old shiv to get to siphon dirt from gold, right? So basically you just, that's kind of what we do. We filter out all the dirt and leave you the gold bits so you can get value. >> It's kind of what we do on theCUBE. >> It's kind of the gold nuggets. Get all these highlights, hitting Twitter, the golden, the gold nuggets. Great to have you on. >> Cam, thanks for, for coming on, explaining that sort of you guys are filling that gap between, Hey all the observability claims, which are all wonderful but then you got to get there. They got to have a route to get there. That's what got to do. Cribl' rhymes with tribble. Dave Vellante for John Furrier covering HPE Discover 2022. You're watching theCUBE. We'll be right back.

>> From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto, in Boston bringing you Data Driven Insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> In the pre-cloud era hardware companies would run benchmarks, showing how database and or application performance ran better on their systems relative to competitors or previous generation boxes. And they would make a big deal out of it. And the independent software vendors, you know they'd do a little golf clap if you will, in the form of a joint press release it became a game of leaprog amongst hardware competitors. That was pretty commonplace over the years. The Dell Snowflake Deal underscores that the value proposition between hardware companies and ISVs is changing and has much more to do with distribution channels, volumes and the amount of data that lives On-Prem in various storage platforms. For cloud native ISVs like Snowflake they're realizing that despite their Cloud only dogma they have to grit their teeth and deal with On-premises data or risk getting shut out of evolving architectures. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we unpack what little is known about the Snowflake announcement from Dell Technologies World and discuss the implications of a changing Cloud landscape. We'll also share some new data for Cloud and Database platforms from ETR that shows Snowflake has actually entered the Earth's orbit when it comes to spending momentum on its platform. Now, before we get into the news I want you to listen to Frank's Slootman's answer to my question as to whether or not Snowflake would ever architect the platform to run On-Prem because it's doable technically, here's what he said, play the clip >> Forget it, this will only work in the Public Cloud. Because it's, this is how the utility model works, right. I think everybody is coming through this realization, right? I mean, excuses are running out at this point. You know, we think that it'll, people will come to the Public Cloud a lot sooner than we will ever come to the Private Cloud. It's not that we can't run a private Cloud. It's just diminishes the potential and the value that we bring. >> So you may be asking yourselves how do you square that circle? Because basically the Dell Snowflake announcement is about bringing Snowflake to the private cloud, right? Or is it let's get into the news and we'll find out. Here's what we know at Dell Technologies World. One of the more buzzy announcements was the, by the way this was a very well attended vet event. I should say about I would say 8,000 people by my estimates. But anyway, one of the more buzzy announcements was Snowflake can now run analytics on Non-native Snowflake data that lives On-prem in a Dell object store Dell's ECS to start with. And eventually it's software defined object store. Here's Snowflake's clark, Snowflake's Clark Patterson describing how it works this past week on theCUBE. Play the clip. The way it works is I can now access Non-native Snowflake data using what materialized views, external tables How does that work? >> Some combination of the, all the above. So we've had in Snowflake, a capability called External Tables, which you refer to, it goes hand in hand with this notion of external stages. Basically there's a through the combination of those two capabilities, it's a metadata layer on data, wherever it resides. So customers have actually used this in Snowflake for data lake data outside of Snowflake in the Cloud, up until this point. So it's effectively an extension of that functionality into the Dell On-Premises world, so that we can tap into those things. So we use the external stages to expose all the metadata about what's in the Dell environment. And then we build external tables in Snowflake. So that data looks like it is in Snowflake. And then the experience for the analyst or whomever it is, is exactly as though that data lives in the Snowflake world. >> So as Clark explained, this capability of External tables has been around in the Cloud for a while, mainly to suck data out of Cloud data lakes. Snowflake External Tables use file level metadata, for instance, the name of the file and the versioning so that it can be queried in a stage. A stage is just an external location outside of Snowflake. It could be an S3 bucket or an Azure Blob and it's soon will be a Dell object store. And in using this feature, the Dell looks like it lives inside of Snowflake and Clark essentially, he's correct to say to an analyst that looks exactly like the data is in Snowflake, but uh, not exactly the data's read only which means you can't do what are called DML operations. DML stands for Data Manipulation Language and allows for things like inserting data into tables or deleting and modifying existing data. But the data can be queried. However, the performance of those queries to External Tables will almost certainly be slower. Now users can build things like materialized views which are going to speed things up a bit, but at the end of the day, it's going to run faster than the Cloud. And you can be almost certain that's where Snowflake wants it to run, but some organizations can't or won't move data into the Cloud for a variety of reasons, data sovereignty, compliance security policies, culture, you know, whatever. So data can remain in place On-prem, or it can be moved into the Public Cloud with this new announcement. Now, the compute today presumably is going to be done in the Public Cloud. I don't know where else it's going to be done. They really didn't talk about the compute side of things. Remember, one of Snowflake's early innovations was to separate compute from storage. And what that gave them is you could more efficiently scale with unlimited resources when you needed them. And you could shut off the compute when you don't need us. You didn't have to buy, and if you need more storage you didn't have to buy more compute and vice versa. So everybody in the industry has copied that including AWS with Redshift, although as we've reported not as elegantly as Snowflake did. RedShift's more of a storage tiering solution which minimizes the compute required but you can't really shut it off. And there are companies like Vertica with Eon Mode that have enabled this capability to be done On-prem, you know, but of course in that instance you don't have unlimited elastic compute scale on-Prem but with solutions like Dell Apex and HPE GreenLake, you can certainly, you can start to simulate that Cloud elasticity On-prem. I mean, it's not unlimited but it's sort of gets you there. According to a Dell Snowflake joint statement, the companies the quote, the companies will pursue product integrations and joint go to market efforts in the second half of 2022. So that's a little vague and kind of benign. It's not really clear when this is going to be available based on that statement from the two first, but, you know, we're left wondering will Dell develop an On-Prem compute capability and enable queries to run locally maybe as part of an extended apex offering? I mean, we don't know really not sure there's even a market for that but it's probably a good bet that again, Snowflake wants that data to land in the Snowflake data Cloud kind of makes you wonder how this deal came about. You heard Sloop on earlier Snowflake has always been pretty dogmatic about getting data into its native snowflake format to enable the best performance as we talked about but also data sharing and governance. But you could imagine that data architects they're building out their data mesh we've reported on this quite extensively and their data fabric and those visions around that. And they're probably telling Snowflake, Hey if you want to be a strategic partner of ours you're going to have to be more inclusive of our data. That for whatever reason we're not putting in your Cloud. So Snowflake had to kind of hold its nose and capitulate. Now the good news is it further opens up Snowflakes Tam the total available market. It's obviously good marketing posture. And ultimately it provides an on ramp to the Cloud. And we're going to come back to that shortly but let's look a little deeper into what's happening with data platforms and to do that we'll bring in some ETR data. Now, let me just say as companies like Dell, IBM, Cisco, HPE, Lenovo, Pure and others build out their hybrid Clouds. The cold hard fact is not only do they have to replicate the Cloud Operating Model. You will hear them talk about that a lot, but they got to do that. So it, and that's critical from a user experience but in order to gain that flywheel momentum they need to build a robust ecosystem that goes beyond their proprietary portfolios. And, you know, honestly they're really not even in the first inning most companies and for the likes of Snowflake to sort of flip this, they've had to recognize that not everything is moving into the Cloud. Now, let's bring up the next slide. One of the big areas of discussion at Dell Tech World was Apex. That's essentially Dell's nascent as a service offering. Apex is infrastructure as a Service Cloud On-prem and obviously has the vision of connecting to the Cloud and across Clouds and out to the Edge. And it's no secret that database is one of the most important ingredients of infrastructure as a service generally in Cloud Infrastructure specifically. So this chart here shows the ETR data for data platforms inside of Dell accounts. So the beauty of ETR platform is you can cut data a million different ways. So we cut it. We said, okay, give us the Cloud platforms inside Dell accounts, how are they performing? Now, this is a two dimensional graphic. You got net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and what ETR now calls Overlap formally called Market Share which is a measure of pervasiveness in the survey. That's on the horizontal axis that red dotted line at 40% represents highly elevated spending on the Y. The table insert shows the raw data for how the dots are positioned. Now, the first call out here is Snowflake. According to ETR quote, after 13 straight surveys of astounding net scores, Snowflake has finally broken the trend with its net score dropping below the 70% mark among all respondents. Now, as you know, net score is measured by asking customers are you adding the platform new? That's the lime green in the bar that's pointing from Snowflake in the graph and or are you increasing spend by 6% or more? That's the forest green is spending flat that's the gray is you're spend decreasing by 6% or worse. That's the pinkish or are you decommissioning the platform bright red which is essentially zero for Snowflake subtract the reds from the greens and you get a net score. Now, what's somewhat interesting is that snowflakes net score overall in the survey is 68 which is still huge, just under 70%, but it's net score inside the Dell account base drops to the low sixties. Nonetheless, this chart tells you why Snowflake it's highly elevated spending momentum combined with an increasing presence in the market over the past two years makes it a perfect initial data platform partner for Dell. Now and in the Ford versus Ferrari dynamic. That's going on between the likes of Dell's apex and HPE GreenLake database deals are going to become increasingly important beyond what we're seeing with this recent Snowflake deal. Now noticed by the way HPE is positioned on this graph with its acquisition of map R which is now part of HPE Ezmeral. But if these companies want to be taken seriously as Cloud players, they need to further expand their database affinity to compete ideally spinning up databases as part of their super Clouds. We'll come back to that that span multiple Clouds and include Edge data platforms. We're a long ways off from that. But look, there's Mongo, there's Couchbase, MariaDB, Cloudera or Redis. All of those should be on the short list in my view and why not Microsoft? And what about Oracle? Look, that's to be continued on maybe as a future topic in a, in a Breaking Analysis but I'll leave you with this. There are a lot of people like John Furrier who believe that Dell is playing with fire in the Snowflake deal because he sees it as a one way ticket to the Cloud. He calls it a one way door sometimes listen to what he said this past week. >> I would say that that's a dangerous game because we've seen that movie before, VMware and AWS. >> Yeah, but that we've talked about this don't you think that was the right move for VMware? >> At the time, but if you don't nurture the relationship AWS will take all those customers ultimately from VMware. >> Okay, so what does the data say about what John just said? How is VMware actually doing in Cloud after its early missteps and then its subsequent embracing of AWS and other Clouds. Here's that same XY graphic spending momentum on the Y and pervasiveness on the X and the same table insert that plots the dots and the, in the breakdown of Dell's net score granularity. You see that at the bottom of the chart in those colors. So as usual, you see Azure and AWS up and to the right with Google well behind in a distant third, but still in the mix. So very impressive for Microsoft and AWS to have both that market presence in such elevated spending momentum. But the story here in context is that the VMware Cloud on AWS and VMware's On-Prem Cloud like VMware Cloud Foundation VCF they're doing pretty well in the market. Look, at HPE, gaining some traction in Cloud. And remember, you may not think HPE and Dell and VCF are true Cloud but these are customers answering the survey. So their perspective matters more than the purest view. And the bad news is the Dell Cloud is not setting the world on fire from a momentum standpoint on the vertical axis but it's above the line of zero and compared to Dell's overall net score of 20 you could see it's got some work to do. Okay, so overall Dell's got a pretty solid net score to you know, positive 20, as I say their Cloud perception needs to improve. Look, Apex has to be the Dell Cloud brand not Dell reselling VMware. And that requires more maturity of Apex it's feature sets, its selling partners, its compensation models and it's ecosystem. And I think Dell clearly understands that. I think they're pretty open about that. Now this includes partners that go beyond being just sellers has to include more tech offerings in the marketplace. And actually they got to build out a marketplace like Cloud Platform. So they got a lot of work to do there. And look, you've got Oracle coming up. I mean they're actually kind of just below the magic 40% in the line which is pro it's pretty impressive. And we've been telling you for years, you can hate Oracle all you want. You can hate its price, it's closed system all of that it's red stack shore. You can say it's legacy. You can say it's old and outdated, blah, blah, blah. You can say Oracle is irrelevant in trouble. You are dead wrong. When it comes to mission critical workloads. Oracle is the king of the hill. They're a founder led company that knows exactly what it's doing and they're showing Cloud momentum. Okay, the last point is that while Microsoft AWS and Google have major presence as shown on the X axis. VMware and Oracle now have more than a hundred citations in the survey. You can see that on the insert in the right hand, right most column. And IBM had better keep the momentum from last quarter going, or it won't be long before they get passed by Dell and HP in Cloud. So look, John might be right. And I would think Snowflake quietly agrees that this Dell deal is all about access to Dell's customers and their data. So they can Hoover it into the Snowflake Data Cloud but the data right now, anyway doesn't suggest that's happening with VMware. Oh, by the way, we're keeping an eye close eye on NetApp who last September ink, a similar deal to VMware Cloud on AWS to see how that fares. Okay, let's wrap with some closing thoughts on what this deal means. We learned a lot from the Cloud generally in AWS, specifically in two pizza teams, working backwards, customer obsession. We talk about flywheel all the time and we've been talking today about marketplaces. These have all become common parlance and often fundamental narratives within strategic plans investor decks and customer presentations. Cloud ecosystems are different. They take both competition and partnerships to new heights. You know, when I look at Azure service offerings like Apex, GreenLake and similar services and I see the vendor noise or hear the vendor noise that's being made around them. I kind of shake my head and ask, you know which movie were these companies watching last decade? I really wish we would've seen these initiatives start to roll out in 2015, three years before AWS announced Outposts not three years after but Hey, the good news is that not only was Outposts a wake up call for the On-Prem crowd but it's showing how difficult it is to build a platform like Outposts and bring it to On-Premises. I mean, Outpost isn't currently even a rounding era in the marketplace. It really doesn't do much in terms of database support and support of other services. And, you know, it's unclear where that that is going. And I don't think it has much momentum. And so the Hybrid Cloud Vendors they've had time to figure it out. But now it's game on, companies like Dell they're promising a consistent experience between On-Prem into the Cloud, across Clouds and out to the Edge. They call it MultCloud which by the way my view has really been multi-vendor Chuck, Chuck Whitten. Who's the new co-COO of Dell called it Multi-Cloud by default. (laughing) That's really, I think an accurate description of that. I call this new world Super Cloud. To me, it's different than MultiCloud. It's a layer that runs on top of hyperscale infrastructure kind of hides the underlying complexity of the Cloud. It's APIs, it's primitives. And it stretches not only across Clouds but out to the Edge. That's a big vision and that's going to require some seriously intense engineering to build out. It's also going to require partnerships that go beyond the portfolios of companies like Dell like their own proprietary stacks if you will. It's going to have to replicate the Cloud Operating Model and to do that, you're going to need more and more deals like Snowflake and even deeper than Snowflake, not just in database. Sure, you'll need to have a catalog of databases that run in your On-Prem and Hybrid and Super Cloud but also other services that customers can tap. I mean, can you imagine a day when Dell offers and embraces a directly competitive service inside of apex. I have trouble envisioning that, you know not with their historical posture, you think about companies like, you know, Nutanix, you know, or Cisco where they really, you know those relationships cooled quite quickly but you know, look, think about it. That's what AWS does. It offers for instance, Redshift and Snowflake side by side happily and the Redshift guys they probably hate Snowflake. I wouldn't blame them, but the EC Two Folks, they love them. And Adam SloopesKy understands that ISVs like Snowflake are a key part of the Cloud ecosystem. Again, I have a hard time envisioning that occurring with Dell or even HPE, you know maybe less so with HPE, but what does this imply that the Edge will allow companies like Dell to a reach around on the Cloud and somehow create a new type of model that begrudgingly accommodates the Public Cloud but drafts of the new momentum of the Edge, which right now to these companies is kind of mostly telco and retail. It's hard to see that happening. I think it's got to evolve in a more comprehensive and inclusive fashion. What's much more likely is companies like Dell are going to substantially replicate that Cloud Operating Model for the pieces that they own pieces that they control which admittedly are big pieces of the market. But unless they're able to really tap that ecosystem magic they're not going to be able to grow much beyond their existing install bases. You take that lime green we showed you earlier that new adoption metric from ETR as an example, by my estimates, AWS and Azure are capturing new accounts at a rate between three to five times faster than Dell and HPE. And in the more mature US and mere markets it's probably more like 10 X and a major reason is because of the Cloud's robust ecosystem and the optionality and simplicity of transaction that that is bringing to customers. Now, Dell for its part is a hundred billion dollar revenue company. And it has the capability to drive that kind of dynamic. If it can pivot its partner ecosystem mindset from kind of resellers to Cloud services and technology optionality. Okay, that's it for now? Thanks to my colleagues, Stephanie Chan who helped research topics for Breaking Analysis. Alex Myerson is on the production team. Kristen Martin and Cheryl Knight and Rob Hof, on editorial they helped get the word out and thanks to Jordan Anderson for the new Breaking Analysis branding and graphics package. Remember these episodes are all available as podcasts wherever you listen. All you do is search Breaking Analysis podcasts. You could check out ETR website @etr.ai. We publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You want to get in touch. @dave.vellente @siliconangle.com. You can DM me @dvellante. You can make a comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for the Cube Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

>> From the theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR, this is Breaking Analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Well, it looks like hybrid cloud is finally here. We've seen a decade of posturing, marchitecture, slideware and narrow examples of hybrid cloud, but there's little question that the definition of cloud is expanding to include on-premises workloads in hybrid models. Now depending on which numbers you choose to represent IT spending, public cloud only accounts for actually less than 5% of the total pie. So the big question is, how will this now evolve? Customers want control, they want governance, they want security, flexibility and a feature-rich set of services to build their digital businesses. It's unlikely that they can buy all that, so they're going to have to build it with partners, specifically vendors, SI's, consultancies and their own developers. The tug of war to win the new cloud day has finally started in earnest between the hyperscalers and the largest enterprise tech companies in the world. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE insights, powered by ETR. In this Breaking Analysis, we'll walk you through how we see the battle for hybrid cloud, how we got here, where we are and where it's headed. First, I want to go back to 2009, in a blog post by a man named Chuck Hollis. Chuck Hollis, at the time, was a CTO and marketing guru inside of EMC who, remember, owned VMware. Chuck was kind of this hybrid, multi-tool player, pun intended. EMC at the time had a big stake, a lot at stake, as the ascendancy of AWS was threatening the historical models, which had defined enterprise IT. Now around that time, NIST published its first draft of a cloud computing definition which, as I recall, included language, something to the effect of accessing remote services over the public network, i.e., public IP networks. Now, NIST has essentially or since evolved that definition, but the original draft was very favorable to the public cloud. And the vendor community, the traditional vendor community, said hang on, we're in this game too. So that was 2009 when Chuck Hollis published this slide. He termed it Private Cloud, a term which he saw buried inside of a Gartner research post or research note that was not really fleshed out and defined. The idea was pretty compelling. The definition of cloud centered on control, where you, as the customer, had on-prem workloads that could span public and on-prem clouds, if you will, with federated security and a data plan that spanned the states. Essentially, you had an internal and an external cloud with a single point of control. This is basically what the hybrid cloud vision has become. An abstraction layer that spans on-prem and public clouds and we can extend that across clouds and out to the edge, where a customer has a single point of control and federated governance and security. Now we know this is still aspirational, but we're now seeing vendor offerings that put forth this promise and a roadmap to get there from different points of view, that we're going to talk about today. The NIST definition now reads cloud computing is a model for enabling ubiquitous, convenient on-demand network access to a shared pool of configurable computing resources, e.g., network server storage, applications and services, that can be rapidly provisioned and released with minimal management effort or service provider interaction. So there you have it, that is inclusive of on-prem, but it took the industry a decade plus to actually get where we are today. And they did so by essentially going to school with the public cloud offerings. Now in 2018, AWS announced Outposts and that was another wake up call to the on-prem community. Externally, they pointed to the validation that hybrid cloud was real. Hey, AWS is doing it so clearly they've capitulated, but most on-prem vendors at the time didn't have a coherent offering for hybrid, but the point is the on-prem vendors responded as they saw AWS moving past the demilitarized zone into enemy lines. And here's what the competitive landscape of hybrid offerings looks like today. All three US-based hyperscalers have an offering or multiple offerings in various forms, Outposts from Amazon and other services that they offer, Google Anthos and Azure Arc, they're all so prominent, but the real action today is coming from the on-prem vendors. Every major company has an offering. Now most of these stemmed from services-led and finance-led initiatives, but they're evolving to true Azure Service models. HPE GreenLake is prominent and the company's CEO, Antonio Neri, is putting the whole company behind Azure Service. HPE claims to be the first, it uses that in its marketing, with such an Azure Service offering, but actually Oracle was their first with Cloud@Customer. You know, possibly Microsoft could make a claim to being early as well, but it really doesn't matter. Let's see, Dell has responded with Apex and is going hard after this opportunity. Cisco has Cisco Plus and Lenovo has TruScale. IBM also has a long services and finance-led history and has announced pockets of Azure Service in areas like storage. And Pure Storage is an example that we chose of a segment player, of course within storage, that has a strong Azure Service offering, and there are others like that. So the landscape is getting very busy. And so, let's break this down a bit. AWS is bringing its programmable infrastructure model and its own hardware to what it calls the edge. And it looks at on-prem data centers as just another edge node. So that's how they're de-positioning the on-prem crowd, but the fact is, when you really look at what Outposts can do today, it's limited, but AWS will move quickly so expect a continued rapid evolution of their model and the services that are supported on Outposts. Azure gets its hardware from partners and has relationships with virtually everyone that matters. Anthos is, as well, a software layer and Google created Kubernetes as the great equalizer in cloud. And it was a nice open source gift to the industry and has obviously taken off. So the cloud guys have the advantage of owning a cloud. The pure on-prem players, they don't, but the on-prem crowd has rich stacks, much richer and more mature in a lot of areas, as it relates to supporting on-premises workloads and much more so than the cloud players, but they don't have mature cloud stacks. They're kind of just getting started with things like subscription billing and API-based microservices offerings. They got to figure out Salesforce compensation and just the overall Azure service mentality versus the historical product box mentality, and that takes time. And they're each coming at this from their respective different points of view and points of strength. HPE is doing a very good job of marketing and go-to market. It probably has the cleanest model, enabled by the company's split from HP, but it has some gaps that it's needed to fill and it's doing so through acquisitions. Ezmeral, for example, is it's new data play. It just bought Zerto to facilitate backup as a service. And it's expanded partnerships to fill gaps in the portfolio. Some partnerships, which they couldn't do before because it created conflicts inside of HPE or HP. Dell is all about the portfolio, the breadth of the portfolio, the go-to-market prowess and its supply chain advantage. It's very serious about Azure Service with Apex and it's driving hard to win that day. Cisco comes at this from a huge portfolio and of course, a point of strength and networking, which maybe is a bit tougher to offer as a service, but Cisco has a large and fast growing subscription business in collaborations, security and other areas, so it's cloud-like in that regard. And Oracle, of course, has the huge advantage of an extremely rich functional stack and it owns a cloud, which has dramatically improved in the past few years, but Oracle is narrow to the red stack, at least today. Oracle, if it wanted to, we think, could dominate the database cloud, it could be the database cloud, especially if it decided to open its cloud to competitive database offerings and run them in the Oracle cloud. Hmm. Wonder if Oracle will ever move in that direction. Now a big part of this shift is the appeal of OPEX versus CAPEX. Let's take a look at some ETR data that digs a bit deeper into this topic. This data is from an August ETR drill down, asking CIOs and IT buyers how their budgets are split between OPEX and CAPEX. The mid point of the yellow line shows where we are today, 57% OPEX, expecting to grow to 63% one year from now. That's not a huge difference, there's not a huge difference when you drill into global 2000, which kind of surprised me. I thought global 2000 would be heavier CAPEX, but they seem to be accelerating the shift to OPEX slightly faster than the overall base, but not really in a meaningful way. So I didn't really discern big differences there. Now, when you dig further into industries and look at subscription versus consumption models for OPEX, you see about 60/40 favoring subscription models, with most industry slowly moving toward consumption or usage based models over time. There are a couple of outliers, but generally speaking, that's the trend. What's perhaps more interesting is when you drill into subscription versus usage based models by product area, and that's what this chart shows. It shows by tech segment, the percent subscription, that's the blue, versus consumption or usage based, that's the gray bars, yellow being indifferent or maybe it's I don't know. What stands out are two areas that are more usage heavy, consumption heavy. That's database, data warehousing, and IS. So database is surely weighted by companies like Snowflake and offerings like Redshift and other cloud databases from Azure and Google and other managed services, but the IS piece, while not surprising, is, we think, relevant because most of the legacy vendor Azure Service offerings are borrowing from a SaaS-oriented subscription model with a hardware twist. In other words, as a customer, you're committing to a term and a minimum spend over the life of that term. You're locked in for a year or three years, whatever it is, to account for the hardware and headroom the vendor has to install because they want to allow you to increase your usage. So that's the usage based model. See, you're then paying by the drink for that consumption above that minimum threshold. So it's a hybrid subscription consumption model, which is actually quite interesting. And we've been saying, what would really be cool is if one of the on-prem penguins on the iceberg would actually jump in and offer a true consumption model right out of the box, as a disruptive move to the industry and to the cloud players, and take that risk. And I think that might happen once they feel comfortable with the financial model and they have nailed the product market fit, but right now, the model is what it is. And even AWS without post requires a threshold and a minimum commitment. So we'd love to see someone take that chance and offer true cloud consumption pricing to facilitate more experimentation and lower risk for the customer entry points. Now let's take a look at some of these players and see what kind of spending momentum they have. This is our popular XY chart-view that plots net score or spending velocity on the x-axis and market share or pervasiveness in the data set on the... Oh, sorry, net score or spending momentum on the y-axis and pervasiveness or market share on the x-axis. Now this is cut by cloud computing vendors, as defined by the customers responding. There were nearly 1500 respondents in the ETR survey, so a couple of points here. Note the red line is the elevated line. In other words, anything above that is considered really robust momentum. And no surprise, Azure, AWS and Google are above that line. Azure and AWS always battle it out for top share of voice in the x-axis in this survey. Now this, remember, is the July survey, but ETR, they gave me a sneak peek at the October results that they're going to be releasing in the coming week and Dell cloud and VMware cloud, which is VCF and maybe some other components, not VMware cloud and AWS, that's a separate beast, but those two are moving up in the y-axis. So they're demonstrating spending momentum. IBM is moving down and Oracle is at a respectable 20% on the y-axis. Now, interestingly, HPE and Lenovo don't show up in the cloud taxonomy, in that cloud cut, and neither does Cisco. I believe I'm correct in that this is an open-ended question, i.e., who are your cloud suppliers? So the customers are not resonating with that messaging yet, but I'm going to double check on that. Now to widen the aperture a bit, we said let's do a cut of the on-prem and cloud players within cloud accounts, so we can include HPE and Cisco and see how they're doing inside of cloud accounts. So that's what this chart does. It's a filter on 975 customers who identify themselves as cloud accounts. So here we were able to add in Cisco and HPE. Now, Lenovo still doesn't show up on the data. It shows up in laptops and desktops, but not as prominent in the enterprise, not prominent at all, but HPE Ezmeral did show up and it's moving forward in the October survey, again, part of the sneak peek. Ezmeral is HPE's data platform that they've introduced, combining the assets of MapR, BlueData and some other organic development. Now, as you can see, HPE and Cisco, they show up on the chart, as I said, and you can see the rope in the tug of war is starting to get a little bit more taut. The cloud guys have momentum and big account presence, but the on-prem folks also have big footprints, rich stacks and many have strong services arms, and a lot of customer affinity. So let's wrap with some comments about how this will shake out and what's some of the markers we can watch. Now, the first thing I'll say is we're starting to hear the right language come out of the vendor community. The idea that they're investing in a layer to abstract the underlying complexity of the clouds and on-prem infrastructure and turning the world into, essentially, a programmable interface to resources. The question is, what about giving access through that layer to underlying primitives in the public cloud? VMware has been very clear on this. They will facilitate that access. I believe Red Hat as well. So watch to the degree in which the large on-prem players are enabling that access for developers. We believe this is the right direction overall, but it's also very hard and it's going to require lots of resources and R & D. I would say at this point that each company has its respective strengths and weaknesses. I see HPE mostly focused today on making its on-prem offerings work like a cloud, whereas some of the others, VMware, Dell and Cisco, are stressing to a greater degree, in my view, enabling multi-cloud and edge connections, cross connections. Not that HPE isn't open to that when you ask them about it, but its marketing is more on-prem leaning, in my opinion. Now all of the traditional vendors, in my view, are still defensive about the cloud, although I would say much less so each day. Increasingly, they look at the public cloud as an opportunity to build value on top of that abstraction layer, if you will. As I said earlier, these on-prem guys, they all have ways to go. They're in the early stages of figuring out what a cloud operating model looks like, how it works, what services to offer, how to pay sellers and partners, but the public cloud vendors, they're miles ahead in that regard, but at the same time, they're navigating into on-prem territory. And they're very immature, in most cases. So how do they service all this stuff? How do they establish partnerships and so forth? And how do they build stacks on prem that are as rich as they are in the cloud? And what's their motivation to do that? Are they getting pulled, digging their heels in? Or are they really serious about it? Now, in some respects, Oracle is in the best position here in terms of hybrid maturity, but again, it's narrowly focused on the Red Stack. I would say the same for Pure Storage, more mature as a service, but narrowly focused, of course, on storage. Let's talk marketplace and ecosystems. One of the hallmarks of public clouds is optionality of tooling. Just all you do is go to the AWS Marketplace and you'll see what I mean. It's got this endless bevy of choices. It's got one of everything in there and you can buy directly from your AWS Console. So watch how the hybrid cloud plays out in terms of partner inclusion and ease of doing business, that's another sign of maturity. Let's talk developers and edge. This is by far the most important and biggest hole in the hybrid portfolios, outside the public cloud players. If you're going to build infrastructure as code, who do you expect to code it? How are the on-prem players cultivating developer communities? IBM paid 34 billion to buy its way in. Actually, in today's valuation terms, you might say that's looking like a good play, but still, that cash outlay is equal to one third of IBM's revenue. So big, big bet on OpenShift, but IBM's infrastructure strategy is fragmented and its cloud business, as IBM reports in its financial statements, is a services-heavy, kitchen sink set of offerings. It's very confusing. So they got to still do some clean up there, but they're serious about the architectural battle for hybrid cloud, as Arvind Krishna calls it. Now VMware, by cobbling together the misfit developer toys of the remnants from the EMC Federation, including Pivotal, is trying to get there. You know, but when you talk to customers, they're still not all in on VMware's developer affinity. Now Cisco has DevNet, but that's basically CCIE's and other trained networking engineers learning to code in languages like Python. It's not necessarily true devs, although they're upskilling. It's a start and they're investing, Cisco, that is, investing in the community, leveraging their champions, and I would say Dell could do the same with, for example, the numerous EMC storage admins that are out there. Now Oracle bought Sun to get Java, and that's a large community of developers, but even so, when you compare AWS and Microsoft ecosystems to the others, it's not even close in terms of developer affinity. So lots of work to be done there. One other point is Pure's acquisition of Portworx, again, while narrowly focused, is a good move and instructive of the changes going on in infrastructure. Now how does this all relate to the edge? Well, I'm not going to talk much about that today, but suffice to say, developers, in our view, will win the edge. And right now, they're coding in the cloud. Now they're often coding in the cloud and moving work on prem, wrapping them in containers, but watch how sticky that model is for the respective players. The other thing to watch is cadence of offerings. Another hallmark of cloud is a rapid expansion of features. The public cloud players don't appear to be slowing down and the on-prem folks seem to be accelerating. I've been watching HPE and GreenLake and their cadence of offerings, and watch how quickly the newbies of Azure Service can add functionality, I have no doubt Dell is going to be right there as well, as is Cisco and others. Also pay attention to financial metrics, watch how Azure Service impacts the income statements and how the companies deal with that because as you shift to deferred revenue models, it's going to hurt profitability. And I'm not worried about that at all because it won't hurt cashflow, or at least it shouldn't. As long as the companies communicate to Wall Street and they're transparent, i.e., they don't shift reporting definitions every year and a half or two years, but watch for metrics around retention and churn, RPO or Remaining Performance Obligations, billing versus bookings, increased average contract values, cohort selling, the impact on both gross margin and operating margin. These are the things you watch with SaaS companies and essentially, these big hardware players are becoming Azure Service slash SaaS companies. These are going to be the key indicators of success and the proof in the pudding of the transition to Azure Service. It should be positive for these companies, assuming they get the product market fit right, and can create a flywheel effect with their respective ecosystems and partner channels. Now I'm sure you can think of other important factors to watch, but I'm going to leave it here for now. Remember these episodes, they're all available as podcasts, wherever you listen. All you got to do is search Breaking Analysis podcast and please subscribe, check out ETR's website at etr.plus. We also publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. You can get in touch with me, email david.vellante@siliconangle.com or you can DM me @dvellante. You can comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week, everybody, stay safe, be well. And we'll see you next time. (soft music)

>> Welcome back to The Cube's coverage of HPE's GreenLake announcements. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching the Cube. I'm here with Holger Mueller, who is an analyst at Constellation Research. And Matt Maccaux is the global field CTO of Ezmeral software at HPE. We're going to talk data. Gents, great to see you. >> Holger: Great to be here. >> So, Holger, what do you see happening in the data market? Obviously data's hot, you know, digital, I call it the force marks to digital. Everybody realizes wow, digital business, that's a data business. We've got to get our data act together. What do you see in the market is the big trends, the big waves? >> We are all young enough or old enough to remember when people were saying data is the new oil, right? Nothing has changed, right? Data is the key ingredient, which matters to enterprise, which they have to store, which they have to enrich, which they have to use for their decision-making. It's the foundation of everything. If you want to go into machine learning or (indistinct) It's growing very fast, right? We have the capability now to look at all the data in enterprise, which weren't able 10 years ago to do that. So data is main center to everything. >> Yeah, it's even more valuable than oil, I think, right? 'Cause with oil, you can only use once. Data, you can, it's kind of polyglot. I can go in different directions and it's amazing, right? >> It's the beauty of digital products, right? They don't get consumed, right? They don't get fired up, right? And no carbon footprint, right? "Oh wait, wait, we have to think about carbon footprint." Different story, right? So to get to the data, you have to spend some energy. >> So it's that simple, right? I mean, it really is. Data is fundamental. It's got to be at the core. And so Matt, what are you guys announcing today, and how does that play into what Holger just said? >> What we're announcing today is that organizations no longer need to make a difficult choice. Prior to today, organizations were thinking if I'm going to do advanced machine learning and really exploit my data, I have to go to the cloud. But all my data's still on premises because of privacy rules, industry rules. And so what we're announcing today, through GreenLake Services, is a cloud services way to deliver that same cloud-based analytical capability. Machine learning, data engineering, through hybrid analytics. It's a unified platform to tie together everything from data engineering to advance data science. And we're also announcing the world's first Kubernetes native object store, that is hybrid cloud enabled. Which means you can keep your data connected across clouds in a data fabric, or Dave, as you say, mesh. >> Okay, can we dig into that a little bit? So, you're essentially saying that, so you're going to have data in both places, right? Public cloud, edge, on-prem, and you're saying, HPE is announcing a capability to connect them, I think you used the term fabric. I'm cool, by the way, with the term fabric, we can, we'll parse that out another time. >> I love for you to discuss textiles. Fabrics vs. mesh. For me, every fabric breaks down to mesh if you put it on a microscope. It's the same thing. >> Oh wow, now that's really, that's too detailed for my brain, right this moment. But, you're saying you can connect all those different estates because data by its very nature is everywhere. You're going to unify that, and what, that can manage that through sort of a single view? >> That's right. So, the management is centralized. We need to be able to know where our data is being provisioned. But again, we don't want organizations to feel like they have to make the trade off. If they want to use cloud surface A in Azure, and cloud surface B in GCP, why not connect them together? Why not allow the data to remain in sync or not, through a distributed fabric? Because we use that term fabric over and over again. But the idea is let the data be where it most naturally makes sense, and exploit it. Monetization is an old tool, but exploit it in a way that works best for your users and applications. >> In sync or not, that's interesting. So it's my choice? >> That's right. Because the back of an automobile could be a teeny tiny, small edge location. It's not always going to be in sync until it connects back up with a training facility. But we still need to be able to manage that. And maybe that data gets persisted to a core data center. Maybe it gets pushed to the cloud, but we still need to know where that data is, where it came from, its lineage, what quality it has, what security we're going to wrap around that, that all should be part of this fabric. >> Okay. So, you've got essentially a governance model, at least maybe you're working toward that, and maybe it's not all baked today, but that's the north star. Is this fabric connect, single management view, governed in a federated fashion? >> Right. And it's available through the most common API's that these applications are already written in. So, everybody today's talking S3. I've got to get all of my data, I need to put it into an object store, it needs to be S3 compatible. So, we are extending this capability to be S3 native. But it's optimized for performance. Today, when you put data in an object store, it's kind of one size fits all. Well, we know for those streaming analytical capabilities, those high performance workloads, it needs to be tuned for that. So, how about I give you a very small object on the very fastest disk in your data center and maybe that cheaper location somewhere else. And so we're giving you that balance as part of the overall management estate. >> Holger, what's your take on this? I mean, Frank Slootman says we'll never, we're not going halfway house. We're never going to do on-prem, we're only in the cloud. So that basically says, okay, he's ignoring a pretty large market by choice. You're not, Matt, you must love those words. But what do you see as the public cloud players, kind of the moves on-prem, particularly in this realm? >> Well, we've seen lots of cloud players who were only cloud coming back towards on-premise, right? We call it the next generation compute platform where I can move data and workloads between on-premise and ideally, multiple clouds, right? Because I don't want to be logged into public cloud vendors. And we see two trends, right? One trend is the traditional hardware supplier of on-premise has not scaled to cloud technology in terms of big data analytics. They just missed the boat for that in the past, this is changing. You guys are a traditional player and changing this, so congratulations. The other thing, is there's been no innovation for the on-premise tech stack, right? The only technology stack to run modern application has been invested for a long time in the cloud. So what we see since two, three years, right? With the first one being Google with Kubernetes, that are good at GKE on-premise, then onto us, right? Bringing their tech stack with compromises to on-premises, right? Acknowledging exactly what we're talking about, the data is everywhere, data is important. Data gravity is there, right? It's just the network's fault, where the networks are too slow, right? If you could just move everything anywhere we want like juggling two balls, then we'd be in different place. But that's the not enough investment for the traditional IT players for that stack, and the modern stack being there. And now every public cloud player has an on-premise offering with different flavors, different capabilities. >> I want to give you guys Dave's story of kind of history and you can kind of course correct, and tell me how this, Matt, maybe fits into what's happened with customers. So, you know, before Hadoop, obviously you had to buy a big Oracle database and you know, you running Unix, and you buy some big storage subsystem if you had any money left over, you know, you maybe, you know, do some actual analytics. But then Hadoop comes in, lowers the cost, and then S3 kneecaps the entire Hadoop market, right? >> I wouldn't say that, I wouldn't agree. Sorry to jump on your history. Because the fascinating thing, what Hadoop brought to the enterprise for the first time, you're absolutely right, affordable, right, to do that. But it's not only about affordability because S3 as the affordability. The big thing is you can store information without knowing how to analyze it, right? So, you mentioned Snowflake, right? Before, it was like an Oracle database. It was Starschema for data warehouse, and so on. You had to make decisions how to store that data because compute capabilities, storage capabilities, were too limited, right? That's what Hadoop blew away. >> I agree, no schema on, right. But then that created data lakes, which create a data swamps, and that whole mess, and then Spark comes in and help clean it out, okay, fine. So, we're cool with that. But the early days of Hadoop, you had, companies would have a Hadoop monolith, they probably had their data catalog in Excel or Google sheets, right? And so now, my question to you, Matt, is there's a lot of customers that are still in that world. What do they do? They got an option to go to the cloud. I'm hearing that you're giving them another option? >> That's right. So we know that data is going to move to the cloud, as I mentioned. So let's keep that data in sync, and governed, and secured, like you expect. But for the data that can't move, let's bring those cloud native services to your data center. And so that's a big part of this announcement is this unified analytics. So that you can continue to run the tools that you want to today while bringing those next generation tools based on Apache Spark, using libraries like Delta Lake so you can go anything from Tableaux through Presto sequel, to advance machine learning in your Jupiter notebooks on-premises where you know your data is secured. And if it happens to sit in existing Hadoop data lake, that's fine too. We don't want our customers to have to make that trade off as they go from one to the other. Let's give you the best of both worlds, or as they say, you can eat your cake and have it too. >> Okay, so. Now let's talk about sort of developers on-prem, right? They've been kind of... If they really wanted to go cloud native, they had to go to the cloud. Do you feel like this changes the game? Do on-prem developers, do they want that capability? Will they lean into that capability? Or will they say no, no, the cloud is cool. What's your take? >> I love developers, right? But it's about who makes the decision, who pays the developers, right? So the CXOs in the enterprises, they need exactly, this is why we call the next-gen computing platform, that you can move your code assets. It's very hard to build software, so it's very valuable to an enterprise. I don't want to have limited to one single location or certain computing infrastructure, right? Luckily, we have Kubernetes to be able to move that, but I want to be able to deploy it on-premise if I have to. I want to deploy it, would be able to deploy in the multiple clouds which are available. And that's the key part. And that makes developers happy too, because the code you write has got to run multiple places. So you can build more code, better code, instead of building the same thing multiple places, because a little compiler change here, a little compiler change there. Nobody wants to do portability testing and rewriting, recertified for certain platforms. >> The head of application development or application architecture and the business are ultimately going to dictate that, number one. Number two, you're saying that developers shouldn't care because it can write once, run anywhere. >> That is the promise, and that's the interesting thing which is available now, 'cause people know, thanks to Kubernetes as a container platform and the abstraction which containers provide, and that makes everybody's life easier. But it goes much more higher than the Head of Apps, right? This is the digital transformation strategy, the next generation application the company has to build as a response to a pandemic, as a pivot, as digital transformation, as digital disruption capability. >> I mean, I see a lot of organizations basically modernizing by building some kind of abstraction to their backend systems, modernizing it through cloud native, and then saying, hey, as you were saying Holger, run it anywhere you want, or connect to those cloud apps, or connect across clouds, connect to other on-prem apps, and eventually out to the edge. Is that what you see? >> It's so much easier said than done though. Organizations have struggled so much with this, especially as we start talking about those data intensive app and workloads. Kubernetes and Hadoop? Up until now, organizations haven't been able to deploy those services. So, what we're offering as part of these GreenLake unified analytics services, a Kubernetes runtime. It's not ours. It's top of branch open source. And open source operators like Apache Spark, bringing in Delta Lake libraries, so that if your developer does want to use cloud native tools to build those next generation advanced analytics applications, but prod is still on-premises, they should just be able to pick that code up, and because we are deploying 100% open-source frameworks, the code should run as is. >> So, it seems like the strategy is to basically build, now that's what GreenLake is, right? It's a cloud. It's like, hey, here's your options, use whatever you want. >> Well, and it's your cloud. That's, what's so important about GreenLake, is it's your cloud, in your data center or co-lo, with your data, your tools, and your code. And again, we know that organizations are going to go to a multi or hybrid cloud location and through our management capabilities, we can reach out if you don't want us to control those, not necessarily, that's okay, but we should at least be able to monitor and audit the data that sits in those other locations, the applications that are running, maybe I register your GKE cluster. I don't manage it, but at least through a central pane of glass, I can tell the Head of Applications, what that person's utilization is across these environments. >> You know, and you said something, Matt, that struck, resonated with me, which is this is not trivial. I mean, not as simple to do. I mean what you see, you see a lot of customers or companies, what they're doing, vendors, they'll wrap their stack in Kubernetes, shove it in the cloud, it's essentially hosted stack, right? And, you're kind of taking a different approach. You're saying, hey, we're essentially building a cloud that's going to connect all these estates. And the key is you're going to have to keep, and you are, I think that's probably part of the reason why we're here, announcing stuff very quickly. A lot of innovation has to come out to satisfy that demand that you're essentially talking about. >> Because we've oversimplified things with containers, right? Because containers don't have what matters for data, and what matters for enterprise, which is persistence, right? I have to be able to turn my systems down, or I don't know when I'm going to use that data, but it has to stay there. And that's not solved in the container world by itself. And that's what's coming now, the heavy lifting is done by people like HPE, to provide that persistence of the data across the different deployment platforms. And then, there's just a need to modernize my on-premise platforms. Right? I can't run on a server which is two, three years old, right? It's no longer safe, it doesn't have trusted identity, all the good stuff that you need these days, right? It cannot be operated remotely, or whatever happens there, where there's two, three years, is long enough for a server to have run their course, right? >> Well you're a software guy, you hate hardware anyway, so just abstract that hardware complexity away from you. >> Hardware is the necessary evil, right? It's like TSA. I want to go somewhere, but I have to go through TSA. >> But that's a key point, let me buy a service, if I need compute, give it to me. And if I don't, I don't want to hear about it, right? And that's kind of the direction that you're headed. >> That's right. >> Holger: That's what you're offering. >> That's right, and specifically the services. So GreenLake's been offering infrastructure, virtual machines, IaaS, as a service. And we want to stop talking about that underlying capability because it's a dial tone now. What organizations and these developers want is the service. Give me a service or a function, like I get in the cloud, but I need to get going today. I need it within my security parameters, access to my data, my tools, so I can get going as quickly as possible. And then beyond that, we're going to give you that cloud billing practices. Because, just because you're deploying a cloud native service, if you're still still being deployed via CapEx, you're not solving a lot of problems. So we also need to have that cloud billing model. >> Great. Well Holger, we'll give you the last word, bring us home. >> It's very interesting to have the cloud qualities of subscription-based pricing maintained by HPE as the cloud vendor from somewhere else. And that gives you that flexibility. And that's very important because data is essential to enterprise processes. And there's three reasons why data doesn't go to the cloud, right? We know that. It's privacy residency requirement, there is no cloud infrastructure in the country. It's performance, because network latency plays a role, right? Especially for critical appraisal. And then there's not invented here, right? Remember Charles Phillips saying how old the CIO is? I know if they're going to go to the cloud or not, right? So, it was not invented here. These are the things which keep data on-premise. You know that load, and HP is coming on with a very interesting offering. >> It's physics, it's laws, it's politics, and sometimes it's cost, right? Sometimes it's too expensive to move and migrate. Guys, thanks so much. Great to see you both. >> Matt: Dave, it's always a pleasure. All right, and thank you for watching the Cubes continuous coverage of HPE's big GreenLake announcements. Keep it right there for more great content. (calm music begins)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of HPE GreenLake announcements. We're seeing the transition of Hewlett Packard Enterprise as a company, yes they're going all in for as a service, but we're also seeing a transition from a hardware company to what I look at increasingly as a data management company. We're going to talk today to Vishal Lall who's GreenLake cloud services solutions at HPE and Matt Maccaux who's a global field CTO, Ezmeral Software at HPE. Gents welcome back to theCube. Good to see you again. >> Thank you for having us here. >> Thanks Dave. >> So Vishal let's start with you. What are the big mega trends that you're seeing in data? When you talk to customers, when you talk to partners, what are they telling you? What's your optic say? >> Yeah, I mean, I would say the first thing is data is getting even more important. It's not that data hasn't been important for enterprises, but as you look at the last, I would say 24 to 36 months has become really important, right? And it's become important because customers look at data and they're trying to stitch data together across different sources, whether it's marketing data, it's supply chain data, it's financial data. And they're looking at that as a source of competitive advantage. So, customers were able to make sense out of the data, enterprises that are able to make sense out of that data, really do have a competitive advantage, right? And they actually get better business outcomes. So that's really important, right? If you start looking at, where we are from an analytics perspective, I would argue we are in maybe the third generation of data analytics. Kind of the first one was in the 80's and 90's with data warehousing kind of EDW. A lot of companies still have that, but think of Teradata, right? The second generation more in the 2000's was around data lakes, right? And that was all about Hadoop and others, and really the difference between the first and the second generation was the first generation was more around structured data, right? Second became more about unstructured data, but you really couldn't run transactions on that data. And I would say, now we are entering this third generation, which is about data lake houses, right? Customers what they want really is, or enterprises, what they want really is they want structured data. They want unstructured data altogether. They want to run transactions on them, right? They want to use the data to mine it for machine learning purposes, right? Use it for SQL as well as non-SQL, right? And that's kind of where we are today. So, that's really what we are hearing from our customers in terms of at least the top trends. And that's how we are thinking about our strategy in context of those trends. >> So lake house use that term. It's an increasing popular term. It connotes, "Okay, I've got the best of data warehouse "and I've got the best of data lake. "I'm going to try to simplify the data warehouse. "And I'm going to try to clean up the data swamp "if you will." Matt, so, talk a little bit more about what you guys are doing specifically and what that means for your customers. >> Well, what we think is important is that there has to be a hybrid solution, that organizations are going to build their analytics. They're going to deploy algorithms, where the data either is being produced or where it's going to be stored. And that could be anywhere. That could be in the trunk of a vehicle. It could be in a public cloud or in many cases, it's on-premises in the data center. And where organizations struggle is they feel like they have to make a choice and a trade-off going from one to the other. And so what HPE is offering is a way to unify the experiences of these different applications, workloads, and algorithms, while connecting them together through a fabric so that the experience is tied together with consistent, security policies, not having to refactor your applications and deploying tools like Delta lake to ensure that the organization that needs to build a data product in one cloud or deploy another data product in the trunk of an automobile can do so. >> So, Vishal I wonder if we could talk about some of the patterns that you're seeing with customers as you go to deploy solutions. Are there other industry patterns? Are there any sort of things you can share that you're discerning? >> Yeah, no, absolutely. As we kind of hear back from our customers across industries, I think the problem sets are very similar, right? Whether you look at healthcare customers. You look at telco customers, you look at consumer goods, financial services, they're all quite similar. I mean, what are they looking for? They're looking for making sense, making business value from the data, breaking down the silos that I think Matt spoke about just now, right? How do I stitch intelligence across my data silos to get more business intelligence out of it. They're looking for openness. I think the problem that's happened is over time, people have realized that they are locked in with certain vendors or certain technologies. So, they're looking for openness and choice. So that's an important one that we've at least heard back from our customers. The other one is just being able to run machine learning on algorithms on the data. I think that's another important one for them as well. And I think the last one I would say is, TCO is important as customers over the last few years have realized going to public cloud is starting to become quite expensive, to run really large workloads on public cloud, especially as they want to egress data. So, cost performance, trade offs are starting to become really important and starting to enter into the conversation now. So, I would say those are some of the key things and themes that we are hearing from customers cutting across industries. >> And you talked to Matt about basically being able to essentially leave the data where it belongs, bring the compute to data. We talk about that all the time. And so that has to include on-prem, it's got to include the cloud. And I'm kind of curious on the edge, where you see that 'cause that's... Is that an eventual piece? Is that something that's actually moving in parallel? There's lot of fuzziness as an observer in the edge. >> I think the edge is driving the most interesting use cases. The challenge up until recently has been, well, I think it's always been connectivity, right? Whether we have poor connection, little connection or no connection, being able to asynchronously deploy machine learning jobs into some sort of remote location. Whether it's a very tiny edge or it's a very large edge, like a factory floor, the challenge as Vishal mentioned is that if we're going to deploy machine learning, we need some sort of consistency of runtime to be able to execute those machine learning models. Yes, we need consistent access to data, but consistent access in terms of runtime is so important. And I think Hadoop got us started down this path, the ability to very efficiently and cost-effectively run large data jobs against large data sets. And it attempted to work into the source ecosystem, but because of the monolithic deployment, the tightly coupling of the compute and the data, it never achieved that cloud native vision. And so what as role in HPE through GreenLake services is delivering with open source-based Kubernetes, open source Apache Spark, open source Delta lake libraries, those same cloud native services that you can develop on your workstation, deploy in your data center in the same way you deploy through automation out at the edge. And I think that is what's so critical about what we're going to see over the next couple of years. The edge is driving these use cases, but it's consistency to build and deploy those machine learning models and connect it consistently with data that's what's going to drive organizations to success. >> So you're saying you're able to decouple, to compute from the storage. >> Absolutely. You wouldn't have a cloud if you didn't decouple compute from storage. And I think this is sort of the demise of Hadoop was forcing that coupling. We have high-speed networks now. Whether I'm in a cloud or in my data center, even at the edge, I have high-performance networks, I can now do distributed computing and separate compute from storage. And so if I want to, I can have high-performance compute for my really data intensive applications and I can have cost-effective storage where I need to. And by separating that off, I can now innovate at the pace of those individual tools in that opensource ecosystem. >> So, can I stay on this for a second 'cause you certainly saw Snowflake popularize that, they were kind of early on. I don't know if they're the first, but they certainly one of the most successful. And you saw Amazon Redshift copied it. And Redshift was kind of a bolt on. What essentially they did is they teared off. You could never turn off the compute. You still had to pay for a little bit compute, that's kind of interesting. Snowflakes at the t-shirt sizes, so there's trade offs there. There's a lot of ways to skin the cat. How did you guys skin the cat? >> What we believe we're doing is we're taking the best of those worlds. Through GreenLake cloud services, the ability to pay for and provision on demand the computational services you need. So, if someone needs to spin up a Delta lake job to execute a machine learning model, you spin up that. We're of course spinning that up behind the scenes. The job executes, it spins down, and you only pay for what you need. And we've got reserve capacity there. So you, of course, just like you would in the public cloud. But more importantly, being able to then extend that through a fabric across clouds and edge locations, so that if a customer wants to deploy in some public cloud service, like we know we're going to, again, we're giving that consistency across that, and exposing it through an S3 API. >> So, Vishal at the end of the day, I mean, I love to talk about the plumbing and the tech, but the customer doesn't care, right? They want the lowest cost. They want the fastest outcome. They want the greatest value. My question is, how are you seeing data organizations evolve to sort of accommodate this third era of this next generation? >> Yeah. I mean, the way at least, kind of look at, from a customer perspective, what they're trying to do is first of all, I think Matt addressed it somewhat. They're looking at a consistent experience across the different groups of people within the company that do something to data, right? It could be a SQL users. People who's just writing a SQL code. It could be people who are writing machine learning models and running them. It could be people who are writing code in Spark. Right now they are, you know the experience is completely disjointed across them, across the three types of users or more. And so that's one thing that they trying to do, is just try to get that consistency. We spoke about performance. I mean the disjointedness between compute and storage does provide the agility, because there customers are looking for elasticity. How can I have an elastic environment? So, that's kind of the other thing they're looking at. And performance and DCU, I think a big deal now. So, I think that that's definitely on a customer's mind. So, as enterprises are looking at their data journey, those are the at least the attributes that they are trying to hit as they organize themselves to make the most out of the data. >> Matt, you and I have talked about this sort of trend to the decentralized future. We're sort of hitting on that. And whether it's in a first gen data warehouse, second gen data lake, data hub, bucket, whatever, that essentially should ideally stay where it is, wherever it should be from a performance standpoint, from a governance standpoint and a cost perspective, and just be a node on this, I like the term data mesh, but be a node on that, and essentially allow the business owners, those with domain context to you've mentioned data products before to actually build data products, maybe air quotes, but a data product is something that can be monetized. Maybe it cuts costs. Maybe it adds value in other ways. How do you see HPE fitting into that long-term vision which we know is going to take some time to play out? >> I think what's important for organizations to realize is that they don't have to go to the public cloud to get that experience they're looking for. Many organizations are still reluctant to push all of their data, their critical data, that is going to be the next way to monetize business into the public cloud. And so what HPE is doing is bringing the cloud to them. Bringing that cloud from the infrastructure, the virtualization, the containerization, and most importantly, those cloud native services. So, they can do that development rapidly, test it, using those open source tools and frameworks we spoke about. And if that model ends up being deployed on a factory floor, on some common X86 infrastructure, that's okay, because the lingua franca is Kubernetes. And as Vishal mentioned, Apache Spark, these are the common tools and frameworks. And so I want organizations to think about this unified analytics experience, where they don't have to trade off security for cost, efficiency for reliability. HPE through GreenLake cloud services is delivering all of that where they need to do it. >> And what about the speed to quality trade-off? Have you seen that pop up in customer conversations, and how are organizations dealing with that? >> Like I said, it depends on what you mean by speed. Do you mean a computational speed? >> No, accelerating the time to insights, if you will. We've got to go faster, faster, agile to the data. And it's like, "Whoa, move fast break things. "Whoa, whoa. "What about data quality and governance and, right?" They seem to be at odds. >> Yeah, well, because the processes are fundamentally broken. You've got a developer who maybe is able to spin up an instance in the public cloud to do their development, but then to actually do model training, they bring it back on-premises, but they're waiting for a data engineer to get them the data available. And then the tools to be provisioned, which is some esoteric stack. And then runtime is somewhere else. The entire process is broken. So again, by using consistent frameworks and tools, and bringing that computation to where the data is, and sort of blowing this construct of pipelines out of the water, I think is what is going to drive that success in the future. A lot of organizations are not there yet, but that's I think aspirationally where they want to be. >> Yeah, I think you're right. I think that is potentially an answer as to how you, not incrementally, but revolutionized sort of the data business. Last question, is talking about GreenLake, how this all fits in. Why GreenLake? Why do you guys feel as though it's differentiable in the market place? >> So, I mean, something that you asked earlier as well, time to value, right? I think that's a very important attribute and kind of a design factor as we look at GreenLake. If you look at GreenLake overall, kind of what does it stand for? It stands for experience. How do we make sure that we have the right experience for the users, right? We spoke about it in context of data. How do we have a similar experience for different users of data, but just broadly across an enterprise? So, it's all about experience. How do you automate it, right? How do you automate the workloads? How do you provision fast? How do you give folks a cloud... An experience that they have been used to in the public cloud, on using an Apple iPhone? So it's all about experience, I think that's number one. Number two is about choice and openness. I mean, as we look at GreenLake is not a proprietary platform. We are very, very clear that the design, one of the important design principles is about choice and openness. And that's the reason we are, you hear us talk about Kubernetes, about Apaches Spark, about Delta lake et cetera, et cetera, right? We're using kind of those open source models where customers have a choice. If they don't want to be on GreenLake, they can go to public cloud tomorrow. Or they can run in our Holos if they want to do it that way or in their Holos, if they want to do it. So they should have the choice. Third is about performance. I mean, what we've done is it's not just about the software, but we as a company know how to configure infrastructure for that workload. And that's an important part of it. I mean if you think about the machine learning workloads, we have the right Nvidia chips that accelerate those transactions. So, that's kind of the last, the third one, and the last one, I think, as I spoke about earlier is cost. We are very focused on TCO, but from a customer perspective, we want to make sure that we are giving a value proposition, which is just not about experience and performance and openness, but also about costs. So if you think about GreenLake, that's kind of the value proposition that we bring to our customers across those four dimensions. >> Guys, great conversation. Thanks so much, really appreciate your time and insights. >> Matt: Thanks for having us here, David. >> All right, you're welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. Keep it right there for more great content from HPE GreenLake announcements. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

(intro music) >> We're back on theCUBE unpacking HPE's GreenLake announcements. I'm here with Keith Townsend, the CTO advisor. Keith, always awesome to see you, man. >> Good to be back on theCUBE. >> So, let's talk about these announcements. Let's break it down. Where do you want to start? >> So-- >> Cloud services? >> Cloud services, one of the things that we've gone back and forth with HPE over the past few years is that I don't understand GreenLake. Like, is it a financial scheme? Is it a cloud services? And I think data services, the data services announcement around Zirdle and Marketplace really elevates GreenLake to a cloud service. Kind of on par with some of the hyperscalers on how they think about architectures around data centers and, and fabrics and services to enterprise customers. >> When you say on, par in what regard? >> So, one of the things I didn't get, separate to the GreenLake announcement, we've heard a lot about HPE's containers services, Ezmeral, and they have a data fabric and it does things that the storage solutions does. Okay. That seems like a marketplace upon itself. And then the data services with the Zirdle acquisition, completely different marketplace? No, HPE is bringing all of that together, logically. So a cloud architect, similar to how they could go to AWS's console, select some services, deploy those services in their AWS VPC. Now, I can conceptually do that with HPE. I can go to HPE's GreenLake console, choose the services I need to build my app, and deploy it. That is something new within all these traditional OEM providers. >> Because of the cloud nativeness on-prem, bringing that capability. >> So, bringing the Aruba Central concepts, you know, Aruba Central, I think I read a stat, a hundred thousand customers on Aruba Central with a million interactions an hour. So this scale is hyperscale scale. This base to have a centralized marketplace and have those on those cloud-like services, but on-premises or in Niccolo, I think puts HPE near the top, if not the top for building private cloud services on-premises. >> Lets say you're a CTO at an organization that's an HPE customer or an architect. You're all in, on HPE, been working with the company for a long, long time. Wouldn't you want a view of your estate, your applications and workloads, where you could manage on-prem, Cloud, whether it's AWS, Azure, Google, take advantage of the cloud native, go across cloud, abstract all that complexity away, maybe eventually go out to the edge. Is that what you want? >> That's what I want, it's aspirational. No one between Microsoft to HPE, no one is able to give me that today. So as a CTO, I'm looking at platforms and seeing is the building blocks there. We talked to the HP storage team of how they're building the abstractions, that they can take anything from their ProLiant line, build the necessary storage underlay, and then abstract that away with a GreenLake. You can do that with AWS EBC, Azure storage. It really doesn't matter because they're building that abstractions. So, aspirationally they're there, they have the right vision. It's about excecution. >> Okay, so that is the right direction in your view, you, I mean, I think that that is clearly where customers want to go. >> A lot of work >> Keith: A lot of work. to get there, and it's a race, right? I mean, that's, you know, I feel as though, as a service is good starting point, but there's, there's a long way to go. And, so how do you feel about HPE's chances there, how they're positioning relative to not only the, there other sort of on-prem competitors, but public cloud players. >> So they're asking the right questions. They're asking the right questions of the right players. It's about relationships. Dave, you know this more than anyone that if you don't have the right relationships inside of the customers, you're not going to get there. And I think that's HPE's number one struggle. The, no slant to the VP of operations, but the VP of operations doesn't want to change his operations. He doesn't want disruption. What COO was coming to you and saying, "I want to be disruptive." Same thing in VP of operations, IT operations, they don't want disruption, but this has been HPE's traditional customer. HPE needs to get into the chief data officers, the chief marketing officers' office, and have these very difficult conversations in sales so that they can eventually show that they can't execute. I think that's the one of their primary challenges. >> So, okay that's good. I'm glad you brought that up because I think Ezmeral starts to go in that direction, it feels as though the first phase is let's pick off analytics. Let's make analytics on-prem as attractive and simple as it is in the cloud. And then, beyond that, let's support this notion of decentralized data and federated governance. And that is aspirational today. But no, as to your point, nobody really has that. AWS really, you know, they're not going after that, across clouds at this point in time, Microsoft is with arc, I guess, and Google kind of has Anthos and they're kind of doing it, but, but yeah, I'm not sure you're going to trust your cloud provider to be that player. So it's kind of like jump ball here, isn't it? >> You know, AWS make a strategic partnership with one of HP's primary competitors, because there was a gap. We know Andy Jassy, former president and CEO of AWS, doesn't typically partner with traditional OEMs, unless there's a real gap in his portfolio that he needed to do and he did it with VMware and he did it with HPE's primary competitor in storage and one of their primary competitors in storage. HPE sees the opportunity. The question is, do they have the workforce? Do they have the field teams, the field CTOs, the solution architects that can go and talk the talk to these customers and this new audience that they need to convince that HPE is just as, as respected a snowflake in these, in this data area. >> Can partners fill that gap? >> Partners definitely can fill that gap, but HPE still has the same challenge for partners: transforming partners from speaking boxes to solutions. I've spent a short stint at VMware. I was surprised at how rigid the channel is and these large organizations and making that transition. >> The other thing, when you think about it as a service that at least that I look for when, if you could comment is the pace, you know, we all would go to, we go to these events, go to re-invent and it's just this fire hose of announcements. We're seeing HPE on a cadence. You know, it's not like a once a year dealio with GreenLake. We're seeing, you know, some stuff with HPC. We're seeing the acquisition of Zerto of the, the DR services, the data protection as a service, Ezmeral. Do you feel like that pace is accelerating? And is it fast enough? >> You know what, I famously said on theCUBE that VMware moves at the pace of the CIO. HPE needs to move a little bit faster than the CIO because the CIO isn't their only customer. They have the opportunity to get customers outside of the CIO and I think they're moving fast enough. This is really hard stuff. Especially when you start to deal with data and the most valuable asset of an organization. Can you move too fast? You absolutely can. One of the other analysts said that you don't want to become the, the forgotten about data services company of the other, of the two thousands. You don't want to make that mistake in the twenties. So I, right now, I think I feel as if HPE is making the right cadence, bringing along their old customers, new customers. Challenge of all of the big OEMs is how do you not erode your base customer base and, but still move fast enough to satisfy the move fast break stuff crowd. >> Keep close to your customers. Keith, we got to leave it there. Thanks so much for coming back on theCUBE. >> I'd love to have you back. >> As always, Dave, great time. All right. And thank you for watching. Keep it right there for more great content from HPE GreenLake announcements. You're watching theCUBE.

>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is braking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> A new era of data is upon us, and we're in a state of transition. You know, even our language reflects that. We rarely use the phrase big data anymore, rather we talk about digital transformation or digital business, or data-driven companies. Many have come to the realization that data is a not the new oil, because unlike oil, the same data can be used over and over for different purposes. We still use terms like data as an asset. However, that same narrative, when it's put forth by the vendor and practitioner communities, includes further discussions about democratizing and sharing data. Let me ask you this, when was the last time you wanted to share your financial assets with your coworkers or your partners or your customers? Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we want to share our assessment of the state of the data business. We'll do so by looking at the data mesh concept and how a leading financial institution, JP Morgan Chase is practically applying these relatively new ideas to transform its data architecture. Let's start by looking at what is the data mesh. As we've previously reported many times, data mesh is a concept and set of principles that was introduced in 2018 by Zhamak Deghani who's director of technology at ThoughtWorks, it's a global consultancy and software development company. And she created this movement because her clients, who were some of the leading firms in the world had invested heavily in predominantly monolithic data architectures that had failed to deliver desired outcomes in ROI. So her work went deep into trying to understand that problem. And her main conclusion that came out of this effort was the world of data is distributed and shoving all the data into a single monolithic architecture is an approach that fundamentally limits agility and scale. Now a profound concept of data mesh is the idea that data architectures should be organized around business lines with domain context. That the highly technical and hyper specialized roles of a centralized cross functional team are a key blocker to achieving our data aspirations. This is the first of four high level principles of data mesh. So first again, that the business domain should own the data end-to-end, rather than have it go through a centralized big data technical team. Second, a self-service platform is fundamental to a successful architectural approach where data is discoverable and shareable across an organization and an ecosystem. Third, product thinking is central to the idea of data mesh. In other words, data products will power the next era of data success. And fourth data products must be built with governance and compliance that is automated and federated. Now there's lot more to this concept and there are tons of resources on the web to learn more, including an entire community that is formed around data mesh. But this should give you a basic idea. Now, the other point is that, in observing Zhamak Deghani's work, she is deliberately avoided discussions around specific tooling, which I think has frustrated some folks because we all like to have references that tie to products and tools and companies. So this has been a two-edged sword in that, on the one hand it's good, because data mesh is designed to be tool agnostic and technology agnostic. On the other hand, it's led some folks to take liberties with the term data mesh and claim mission accomplished when their solution, you know, maybe more marketing than reality. So let's look at JP Morgan Chase in their data mesh journey. Is why I got really excited when I saw this past week, a team from JPMC held a meet up to discuss what they called, data lake strategy via data mesh architecture. I saw that title, I thought, well, that's a weird title. And I wondered, are they just taking their legacy data lakes and claiming they're now transformed into a data mesh? But in listening to the presentation, which was over an hour long, the answer is a definitive no, not at all in my opinion. A gentleman named Scott Hollerman organized the session that comprised these three speakers here, James Reid, who's a divisional CIO at JPMC, Arup Nanda who is a technologist and architect and Serita Bakst who is an information architect, again, all from JPMC. This was the most detailed and practical discussion that I've seen to date about implementing a data mesh. And this is JP Morgan's their approach, and we know they're extremely savvy and technically sound. And they've invested, it has to be billions in the past decade on data architecture across their massive company. And rather than dwell on the downsides of their big data past, I was really pleased to see how they're evolving their approach and embracing new thinking around data mesh. So today, we're going to share some of the slides that they use and comment on how it dovetails into the concept of data mesh that Zhamak Deghani has been promoting, and at least as we understand it. And dig a bit into some of the tooling that is being used by JP Morgan, particularly around it's AWS cloud. So the first point is it's all about business value, JPMC, they're in the money business, and in that world, business value is everything. So Jr Reid, the CIO showed this slide and talked about their overall goals, which centered on a cloud first strategy to modernize the JPMC platform. I think it's simple and sensible, but there's three factors on which he focused, cut costs always short, you got to do that. Number two was about unlocking new opportunities, or accelerating time to value. But I was really happy to see number three, data reuse. That's a fundamental value ingredient in the slide that he's presenting here. And his commentary was all about aligning with the domains and maximizing data reuse, i.e. data is not like oil and making sure there's appropriate governance around that. Now don't get caught up in the term data lake, I think it's just how JP Morgan communicates internally. It's invested in the data lake concept, so they use water analogies. They use things like data puddles, for example, which are single project data marts or data ponds, which comprise multiple data puddles. And these can feed in to data lakes. And as we'll see, JPMC doesn't strive to have a single version of the truth from a data standpoint that resides in a monolithic data lake, rather it enables the business lines to create and own their own data lakes that comprise fit for purpose data products. And they do have a single truth of metadata. Okay, we'll get to that. But generally speaking, each of the domains will own end-to-end their own data and be responsible for those data products, we'll talk about that more. Now the genesis of this was sort of a cloud first platform, JPMC is leaning into public cloud, which is ironic since the early days, in the early days of cloud, all the financial institutions were like never. Anyway, JPMC is going hard after it, they're adopting agile methods and microservices architectures, and it sees cloud as a fundamental enabler, but it recognizes that on-prem data must be part of the data mesh equation. Here's a slide that starts to get into some of that generic tooling, and then we'll go deeper. And I want to make a couple of points here that tie back to Zhamak Deghani's original concept. The first is that unlike many data architectures, this puts data as products right in the fat middle of the chart. The data products live in the business domains and are at the heart of the architecture. The databases, the Hadoop clusters, the files and APIs on the left-hand side, they serve the data product builders. The specialized roles on the right hand side, the DBA's, the data engineers, the data scientists, the data analysts, we could have put in quality engineers, et cetera, they serve the data products. Because the data products are owned by the business, they inherently have the context that is the middle of this diagram. And you can see at the bottom of the slide, the key principles include domain thinking, an end-to-end ownership of the data products. They build it, they own it, they run it, they manage it. At the same time, the goal is to democratize data with a self-service as a platform. One of the biggest points of contention of data mesh is governance. And as Serita Bakst said on the Meetup, metadata is your friend, and she kind of made a joke, she said, "This sounds kind of geeky, but it's important to have a metadata catalog to understand where data resides and the data lineage in overall change management. So to me, this really past the data mesh stink test pretty well. Let's look at data as products. CIO Reid said the most difficult thing for JPMC was getting their heads around data product, and they spent a lot of time getting this concept to work. Here's the slide they use to describe their data products as it related to their specific industry. They set a common language and taxonomy is very important, and you can imagine how difficult that was. He said, for example, it took a lot of discussion and debate to define what a transaction was. But you can see at a high level, these three product groups around wholesale, credit risk, party, and trade and position data as products, and each of these can have sub products, like, party, we'll have to know your customer, KYC for example. So a key for JPMC was to start at a high level and iterate to get more granular over time. So lots of decisions had to be made around who owns the products and the sub-products. The product owners interestingly had to defend why that product should even exist, what boundaries should be in place and what data sets do and don't belong in the various products. And this was a collaborative discussion, I'm sure there was contention around that between the lines of business. And which sub products should be part of these circles? They didn't say this, but tying it back to data mesh, each of these products, whether in a data lake or a data hub or a data pond or data warehouse, data puddle, each of these is a node in the global data mesh that is discoverable and governed. And supporting this notion, Serita said that, "This should not be infrastructure-bound, logically, any of these data products, whether on-prem or in the cloud can connect via the data mesh." So again, I felt like this really stayed true to the data mesh concept. Well, let's look at some of the key technical considerations that JPM discussed in quite some detail. This chart here shows a diagram of how JP Morgan thinks about the problem, and some of the challenges they had to consider were how to write to various data stores, can you and how can you move data from one data store to another? How can data be transformed? Where's the data located? Can the data be trusted? How can it be easily accessed? Who has the right to access that data? These are all problems that technology can help solve. And to address these issues, Arup Nanda explained that the heart of this slide is the data in ingestor instead of ETL. All data producers and contributors, they send their data to the ingestor and the ingestor then registers the data so it's in the data catalog. It does a data quality check and it tracks the lineage. Then, data is sent to the router, which persists the data in the data store based on the best destination as informed by the registration. This is designed to be a flexible system. In other words, the data store for a data product is not fixed, it's determined at the point of inventory, and that allows changes to be easily made in one place. The router simply reads that optimal location and sends it to the appropriate data store. Nowadays you see the schema infer there is used when there is no clear schema on right. In this case, the data product is not allowed to be consumed until the schema is inferred, and then the data goes into a raw area, and the inferer determines the schema and then updates the inventory system so that the data can be routed to the proper location and properly tracked. So that's some of the detail of how the sausage factory works in this particular use case, it was very interesting and informative. Now let's take a look at the specific implementation on AWS and dig into some of the tooling. As described in some detail by Arup Nanda, this diagram shows the reference architecture used by this group within JP Morgan, and it shows all the various AWS services and components that support their data mesh approach. So start with the authorization block right there underneath Kinesis. The lake formation is the single point of entitlement and has a number of buckets including, you can see there the raw area that we just talked about, a trusted bucket, a refined bucket, et cetera. Depending on the data characteristics at the data catalog registration block where you see the glue catalog, that determines in which bucket the router puts the data. And you can see the many AWS services in use here, identity, the EMR, the elastic MapReduce cluster from the legacy Hadoop work done over the years, the Redshift Spectrum and Athena, JPMC uses Athena for single threaded workloads and Redshift Spectrum for nested types so they can be queried independent of each other. Now remember very importantly, in this use case, there is not a single lake formation, rather than multiple lines of business will be authorized to create their own lakes, and that creates a challenge. So how can that be done in a flexible and automated manner? And that's where the data mesh comes into play. So JPMC came up with this federated lake formation accounts idea, and each line of business can create as many data producer or consumer accounts as they desire and roll them up into their master line of business lake formation account. And they cross-connect these data products in a federated model. And these all roll up into a master glue catalog so that any authorized user can find out where a specific data element is located. So this is like a super set catalog that comprises multiple sources and syncs up across the data mesh. So again to me, this was a very well thought out and practical application of database. Yes, it includes some notion of centralized management, but much of that responsibility has been passed down to the lines of business. It does roll up to a master catalog, but that's a metadata management effort that seems compulsory to ensure federated and automated governance. As well at JPMC, the office of the chief data officer is responsible for ensuring governance and compliance throughout the federation. All right, so let's take a look at some of the suspects in this world of data mesh and bring in the ETR data. Now, of course, ETR doesn't have a data mesh category, there's no such thing as that data mesh vendor, you build a data mesh, you don't buy it. So, what we did is we use the ETR dataset to select and filter on some of the culprits that we thought might contribute to the data mesh to see how they're performing. This chart depicts a popular view that we often like to share. It's a two dimensional graphic with net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share or pervasiveness in the data set on the horizontal axis. And we filtered the data on sectors such as analytics, data warehouse, and the adjacencies to things that might fit into data mesh. And we think that these pretty well reflect participation that data mesh is certainly not all compassing. And it's a subset obviously, of all the vendors who could play in the space. Let's make a few observations. Now as is often the case, Azure and AWS, they're almost literally off the charts with very high spending velocity and large presence in the market. Oracle you can see also stands out because much of the world's data lives inside of Oracle databases. It doesn't have the spending momentum or growth, but the company remains prominent. And you can see Google Cloud doesn't have nearly the presence in the dataset, but it's momentum is highly elevated. Remember that red dotted line there, that 40% line, anything over that indicates elevated spending momentum. Let's go to Snowflake. Snowflake is consistently shown to be the gold standard in net score in the ETR dataset. It continues to maintain highly elevated spending velocity in the data. And in many ways, Snowflake with its data marketplace and its data cloud vision and data sharing approach, fit nicely into the data mesh concept. Now, a caution, Snowflake has used the term data mesh in it's marketing, but in our view, it lacks clarity, and we feel like they're still trying to figure out how to communicate what that really is. But is really, we think a lot of potential there to that vision. Databricks is also interesting because the firm has momentum and we expect further elevated levels in the vertical axis in upcoming surveys, especially as it readies for its IPO. The firm has a strong product and managed service, and is really one to watch. Now we included a number of other database companies for obvious reasons like Redis and Mongo, MariaDB, Couchbase and Terradata. SAP as well is in there, but that's not all database, but SAP is prominent so we included them. As is IBM more of a database, traditional database player also with the big presence. Cloudera includes Hortonworks and HPE Ezmeral comprises the MapR business that HPE acquired. So these guys got the big data movement started, between Cloudera, Hortonworks which is born out of Yahoo, which was the early big data, sorry early Hadoop innovator, kind of MapR when it's kind of owned course, and now that's all kind of come together in various forms. And of course, we've got Talend and Informatica are there, they are two data integration companies that are worth noting. We also included some of the AI and ML specialists and data science players in the mix like DataRobot who just did a monster $250 million round. Dataiku, H2O.ai and ThoughtSpot, which is all about democratizing data and injecting AI, and I think fits well into the data mesh concept. And you know we put VMware Cloud in there for reference because it really is the predominant on-prem infrastructure platform. All right, let's wrap with some final thoughts here, first, thanks a lot to the JP Morgan team for sharing this data. I really want to encourage practitioners and technologists, go to watch the YouTube of that meetup, we'll include it in the link of this session. And thank you to Zhamak Deghani and the entire data mesh community for the outstanding work that you're doing, challenging the established conventions of monolithic data architectures. The JPM presentation, it gives you real credibility, it takes Data Mesh well beyond concept, it demonstrates how it can be and is being done. And you know, this is not a perfect world, you're going to start somewhere and there's going to be some failures, the key is to recognize that shoving everything into a monolithic data architecture won't support massive scale and agility that you're after. It's maybe fine for smaller use cases in smaller firms, but if you're building a global platform in a data business, it's time to rethink data architecture. Now much of this is enabled by the cloud, but cloud first doesn't mean cloud only, doesn't mean you'll leave your on-prem data behind, on the contrary, you have to include non-public cloud data in your Data Mesh vision just as JPMC has done. You've got to get some quick wins, that's crucial so you can gain credibility within the organization and grow. And one of the key takeaways from the JP Morgan team is, there is a place for dogma, like organizing around data products and domains and getting that right. On the other hand, you have to remain flexible because technologies is going to come, technology is going to go, so you got to be flexible in that regard. And look, if you're going to embrace the metaphor of water like puddles and ponds and lakes, we suggest maybe a little tongue in cheek, but still we believe in this, that you expand your scope to include data ocean, something John Furry and I have talked about and laughed about extensively in theCUBE. Data oceans, it's huge. It's the new data lake, go transcend data lake, think oceans. And think about this, just as we're evolving our language, we should be evolving our metrics. Much the last the decade of big data was around just getting the stuff to work, getting it up and running, standing up infrastructure and managing massive, how much data you got? Massive amounts of data. And there were many KPIs built around, again, standing up that infrastructure, ingesting data, a lot of technical KPIs. This decade is not just about enabling better insights, it's a more than that. Data mesh points us to a new era of data value, and that requires the new metrics around monetizing data products, like how long does it take to go from data product conception to monetization? And how does that compare to what it is today? And what is the time to quality if the business owns the data, and the business has the context? the quality that comes out of them, out of the shoot should be at a basic level, pretty good, and at a higher mark than out of a big data team with no business context. Automation, AI, and very importantly, organizational restructuring of our data teams will heavily contribute to success in the coming years. So we encourage you, learn, lean in and create your data future. Okay, that's it for now, remember these episodes, they're all available as podcasts wherever you listen, all you got to do is search, breaking analysis podcast, and please subscribe. Check out ETR's website at etr.plus for all the data and all the survey information. We publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. And you can get in touch with us, email me david.vellante@siliconangle.com, you can DM me @dvellante, or you can comment on my LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Have a great week everybody, stay safe, be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(bright music) >> Data by its very nature is distributed and siloed, but most data architectures today are highly centralized. Organizations are increasingly challenged to organize and manage data, and turn that data into insights. This idea of a single monolithic platform for data, it's giving way to new thinking. Where a decentralized approach, with open cloud native principles and federated governance, will become an underpinning of digital transformations. Hi everybody. This is Dave Volante. Welcome back to HPE Discover 2021, the virtual version. You're watching theCube's continuous coverage of the event and we're here with Matt Maccaux, who's a field CTO for Ezmeral Software at HPE. We're going to talk about HPE software strategy, and Ezmeral and specifically how to take AI analytics to scale and ensure the productivity of data teams. Matt, welcome to theCube. Good to see you. >> Good to see you again, Dave. Thanks for having me today. >> You're welcome. So talk a little bit about your role as a CTO. Where do you spend your time? >> I spend about half of my time talking to customers and partners about where they are on their digital transformation journeys and where they struggle with this sort of last phase where we start talking about bringing those cloud principles and practices into the data world. How do I take those data warehouses, those data lakes, those distributed data systems, into the enterprise and deploy them in a cloud-like manner? Then the other half of my time is working with our product teams to feed that information back, so that we can continually innovate to the next generation of our software platform. >> So when I remember, I've been following HP and HPE, for a long, long time, theCube has documented, we go back to sort of when the company was breaking in two parts, and at the time a lot of people were saying, "Oh, HP is getting rid of their software business, they're getting out of software." I said, "No, no, no, hold on. They're really focusing", and the whole focus around hybrid cloud and now as a service, you've really retooling that business and sharpened your focus. So tell us more about Ezmeral, it's a cool name, but what exactly is Ezmeral software? >> I get this question all the time. So what is Ezmeral? Ezmeral is a software platform for modern data and analytics workloads, using open source software components. We came from some inorganic growth. We acquired a company called Cytec, that brought us a zero trust approach to doing security with containers. We bought BlueData who came to us with an orchestrator before Kubernetes even existed in mainstream. They were orchestrating workloads using containers for some of these more difficult workloads. Clustered applications, distributed applications like Hadoop. Then finally we acquired MapR, which gave us this scale out distributed file system and additional analytical capabilities. What we've done is we've taken those components and we've also gone out into the marketplace to see what open source projects exist to allow us to bring those cloud principles and practices to these types of workloads, so that we can take things like Hadoop, and Spark, and Presto, and deploy and orchestrate them using open source Kubernetes. Leveraging GPU's, while providing that zero trust approach to security, that's what Ezmeral is all about is taking those cloud practices and principles, but without locking you in. Again, using those open source components where they exist, and then committing and contributing back to the opensource community where those projects don't exist. >> You know, it's interesting, thank you for that history, and when I go back, I have been there since the early days of Big Data and Hadoop and so forth and MapR always had the best product, but they couldn't get it out. Back then it was like kumbaya, open source, and they had this kind of proprietary system but it worked and that's why it was the best product. So at the same time they participated in open source projects because everybody did, that's where the innovation is going. So you're making that really hard to use stuff easier to use with Kubernetes orchestration, and then obviously, I'm presuming with the open source chops, sort of leaning into the big trends that you're seeing in the marketplace. So my question is, what are those big trends that you're seeing when you speak to technology executives which is a big part of what you do? >> So the trends are, I think, are a couplefold, and it's funny about Hadoop, but I think the final nails in the coffin have been hammered in with the Hadoop space now. So that leading trend, of where organizations are going, we're seeing organizations wanting to go cloud first. But they really struggle with these data-intensive workloads. Do I have to store my data in every cloud? Am I going to pay egress in every cloud? Well, what if my data scientists are most comfortable in AWS, but my data analysts are more comfortable in Azure, how do I provide that multi-cloud experience for these data workloads? That's the number one question I get asked, and that's probably the biggest struggle for these chief data officers, chief digital officers, is how do I allow that innovation but maintaining control over my data compliance especially when we talk international standards, like GDPR, to restrict access to data, the ability to be forgotten, in these multinational organizations how do I sort of square all of those components? Then how do I do that in a way that just doesn't lock me into another appliance or software vendor stack? I want to be able to work within the confines of the ecosystem, use the tools that are out there, but allow my organization to innovate in a very structured compliant way. >> I mean, I love this conversation and you just, to me, you hit on the key word, which is organization. I want to talk about what some of the barriers are. And again, you heard my wrap up front. I really do think that we've created, not only from a technology standpoint, and yes the tooling is important, but so is the organization, and as you said an analyst might want to work in one environment, a data scientist might want to work in another environment. The data may be very distributed. You might have situations where they're supporting the line of business. The line of business is trying to build new products, and if I have to go through this monolithic centralized organization, that's a barrier for me. And so we're seeing that change, that I kind of alluded to it up front, but what do you see as the big barriers that are blocking this vision from becoming a reality? >> It very much is organization, Dave. The technology's actually no longer the inhibitor here. We have enough technology, enough choices out there that technology is no longer the issue. It's the organization's willingness to embrace some of those technologies and put just the right level of control around accessing that data. Because if you don't allow your data scientists and data analysts to innovate, they're going to do one of two things. They're either going to leave, and then you have a huge problem keeping up with your competitors, or they're going to do it anyway. And they're going to do it in a way that probably doesn't comply with the organizational standards. So the more progressive enterprises that I speak with have realized that they need to allow these various analytical users to choose the tools they want, to self provision those as they need to and get access to data in a secure and compliant way. And that means we need to bring the cloud to generally where the data is because it's a heck of a lot easier than trying to bring the data where the cloud is, while conforming to those data principles, and that's HPE's strategy. You've heard it from our CEO for years now. Everything needs to be delivered as a service. It's Ezmeral Software that enables that capability, such as self-service and secure data provisioning, et cetera. >> Again, I love this conversation because if you go back to the early days of Hadoop, that was what was profound about a Hadoop. Bring five megabytes of code to a petabyte of data, and it didn't happen. We shoved it all into a data lake and it became a data swamp. And that's okay, it's a one dot oh, you know, maybe in data as is like data warehouses, data hubs, data lakes, maybe this is now a four dot oh, but we're getting there. But open source, one thing's for sure, it continues to gain momentum, it's where the innovation is. I wonder if you could comment on your thoughts on the role that open-source software plays for large enterprises, maybe some of the hurdles that are there, whether they're legal or licensing, or just fears, how important is open source software today? >> I think the cloud native developments, following the 12 factor applications, microservices based, paved the way over the last decade to make using open source technology tools and libraries mainstream. We have to tip our hats to Red Hat, right? For allowing organizations to embrace something so core as an operating system within the enterprise. But what everyone realized is that it's support that's what has to come with that. So we can allow our data scientists to use open source libraries, packages, and notebooks, but are we going to allow those to run in production? So if the answer is no, well? Then if we can't get support, we're not going to allow that. So where HPE Ezmeral is taking the lead here is, again, embracing those open source capabilities, but, if we deploy it, we're going to support it. Or we're going to work with the organization that has the committers to support it. You call HPE, the same phone number you've been calling for years for tier one 24 by seven support, and we will support your Kubernetes, your Spark your Presto, your Hadoop ecosystem of components. We're that throat to choke and we'll provide, all the way up to break/fix support, for some of these components and packages, giving these large enterprises the confidence to move forward with open source, but knowing that they have a trusted partner in which to do so. >> And that's why we've seen such success with say, for instance, managed services in the cloud, versus throwing out all the animals in the zoo and say, okay, figure it out yourself. But then, of course, what we saw, which was kind of ironic, was people finally said, "Hey, we can do this in the cloud more easily." So that's where you're seeing a lot of data land. However, the definition of cloud or the notion of cloud is changing. No longer is it just this remote set of services, "Somewhere out there in the cloud", some data center somewhere, no, it's moving to on-prem, on-prem is creating hybrid connections. You're seeing co-location facilities very proximate to the cloud. We're talking now about the edge, the near edge, and the far edge, deeply embedded. So that whole notion of cloud is changing. But I want to ask you, there's still a big push to cloud, everybody has a cloud first mantra, how do you see HPE competing in this new landscape? >> I think collaborating is probably a better word, although you could certainly argue if we're just leasing or renting hardware, then it would be competition, but I think again... The workload is going to flow to where the data exists. So if the data's being generated at the edge and being pumped into the cloud, then cloud is prod. That's the production system. If the data is generated via on-premises systems, then that's where it's going to be executed. That's production, and so HPE's approach is very much co-exist. It's a co-exist model of, if you need to do DevTests in the cloud and bring it back on-premises, fine, or vice versa. The key here is not locking our customers and our prospective clients into any sort of proprietary stack, as we were talking about earlier, giving people the flexibility to move those workloads to where the data exists, that is going to allow us to continue to get share of wallet, mind share, continue to deploy those workloads. And yes, there's going to competition that comes along. Do you run this on a GCP or do you run it on a GreenLake on-premises? Sure, we'll have those conversations, but again, if we're using open source software as the foundation for that, then actually where you run it is less relevant. >> So there's a lot of choices out there, when it comes to containers generally and Kubernetes specifically, and you may have answered this, you get the zero trust component, you've got the orchestrator, you've got the scale-out piece, but I'm interested in hearing in your words why an enterprise would or should consider Ezmeral instead of alternatives to Kubernetes solutions? >> It's a fair question, and it comes up in almost every conversation. "Oh, we already do Kubernetes, we have a Kubernetes standard", and that's largely true in most of the enterprises I speak to. They're using one of the many on-premises distributions to their cloud distributions, and they're all fine. They're all fine for what they were built for. Ezmeral was generally built for something a little different. Yes, everybody can run microservices based applications, DevOps based workloads, but where Ezmeral is different is for those data intensive, in clustered applications. Those sorts of applications require a certain degree of network awareness, persistent storage, et cetera, which requires either a significant amount of intelligence. Either you have to write in Golang, or you have to write your own operators, or Ezmeral can be that easy button. We deploy those stateful applications, because we bring a persistent storage layer, that came from MapR. We're really good at deploying those stateful clustered applications, and, in fact, we've opened sourced that as a project, KubeDirector, that came from BlueData, and we're really good at securing these, using SPIFFE and SPIRE, to ensure that there's that zero trust approach, that came from Scytale, and we've wrapped all of that in Kubernetes. So now you can take the most difficult, gnarly complex data intensive applications in your enterprise and deploy them using open source. And if that means we have to co-exist with an existing Kubernetes distribution, that's fine. That's actually the most common scenario that I walk into is, I start asking about, "What about these other applications you haven't done yet?" The answer is usually, "We haven't gotten to them yet", or "We're thinking about it", and that's when we talk about the capabilities of Ezmeral and I usually get the response, "Oh. A, we didn't know you existed and B well, let's talk about how exactly you do that." So again, it's more of a co-exist model rather than a compete with model, Dave. >> Well, that makes sense. I mean, I think again, a lot of people, they go, "Oh yeah, Kubernetes, no big deal. It's everywhere." But you're talking about a solution, kind of taking a platform approach with capabilities. You got to protect the data. A lot of times, these microservices aren't so micro and things are happening really fast. You've got to be secure. You got to be protected. And like you said, you've got a single phone number. You know, people say one throat to choke. Somebody in the media the other day said, "No, no. Single hand to shake." It's more of a partnership. I think that's apropos for HPE, Matt, with your heritage. >> That one's better. >> So, you know, thinking about this whole, we've gone through the pre big data days and the big data was all the hot buzzword. People don't maybe necessarily use that term anymore, although the data is bigger and getting bigger, which is kind of ironic. Where do you see this whole space going? We've talked about that sort of trend toward breaking down the silos, decentralization, maybe these hyper specialized roles that we've created, maybe getting more embedded or aligned with the line of business. How do you see... It feels like the next 10 years are going to be different than the last 10 years. How do you see it, Matt? >> I completely agree. I think we are entering this next era, and I don't know if it's well-defined. I don't know if I would go out on an edge to say exactly what the trend is going to be. But as you said earlier, data lakes really turned into data swamps. We ended up with lots of them in the enterprise, and enterprises had to allow that to happen. They had to let each business unit or each group of users collect the data that they needed and IT sort of had to deal with that down the road. I think that the more progressive organizations are leading the way. They are, again, taking those lessons from cloud and application developments, microservices, and they're allowing a freedom of choice. They're allowing data to move, to where those applications are, and I think this decentralized approach is really going to be king. You're going to see traditional software packages. You're going to see open source. You're going to see a mix of those, but what I think will probably be common throughout all of that is there's going to be this sense of automation, this sense that, we can't just build an algorithm once, release it and then wish it luck. That we've got to treat these analytics, and these data systems, as living things. That there's life cycles that we have to support. Which means we need to have DevOps for our data science. We need a CI/CD for our data analytics. We need to provide engineering at scale, like we do for software engineering. That's going to require automation, and an organizational thinking process, to allow that to actually occur. I think all of those things. The sort of people, process, products. It's all three of those things that are going to have to come into play, but stealing those best ideas from cloud and application developments, I think we're going to end up with probably something new over the next decade or so. >> Again, I'm loving this conversation, so I'm going to stick with it for a sec. It's hard to predict, but some takeaways that I have, Matt, from our conversation, I wonder if you could comment? I think the future is more open source. You mentioned automation, Devs are going to be key. I think governance as code, security designed in at the point of code creation, is going to be critical. It's no longer going be a bolt on. I don't think we're going to throw away the data warehouse or the data hubs or the data lakes. I think they become a node. I like this idea, I don't know if you know Zhamak Dehghani? but she has this idea of a global data mesh where these tools, lakes, whatever, they're a node on the mesh. They're discoverable. They're shareable. They're governed in a way. I think the mistake a lot of people made early on in the big data movement is, "Oh, we got data. We have to monetize our data." As opposed to thinking about what products can I build that are based on data that then can lead to monetization? I think the other thing I would say is the business has gotten way too technical. (Dave chuckles) It's alienated a lot of the business lines. I think we're seeing that change, and I think things like Ezmeral that simplify that, are critical. So I'll give you the final thoughts, based on my rant. >> No, your rant is spot on Dave. I think we are in agreement about a lot of things. Governance is absolutely key. If you don't know where your data is, what it's used for, and can apply policies to it. It doesn't matter what technology you throw at it, you're going to end up in the same state that you're essentially in today, with lots of swamps. I did like that concept of a node or a data mesh. It kind of goes back to the similar thing with a service mesh, or a set of APIs that you can use. I think we're going to have something similar with data. The trick is always, how heavy is it? How easy is it to move about? I think there's always going to be that latency issue, maybe not within the data center, but across the WAN. Latency is still going to be key, which means we need to have really good processes to be able to move data around. As you said, govern it. Determine who has access to what, when, and under what conditions, and then allow it to be free. Allow people to bring their choice of tools, provision them how they need to, while providing that audit, compliance and control. And then again, as you need to provision data across those nodes for those use cases, do so in a well measured and governed way. I think that's sort of where things are going. But we keep using that term governance, I think that's so key, and there's nothing better than using open source software because that provides traceability, auditability and this, frankly, openness that allows you to say, "I don't like where this project's going. I want to go in a different direction." And it gives those enterprises a control over these platforms that they've never had before. >> Matt, thanks so much for the discussion. I really enjoyed it. Awesome perspectives. >> Well thank you for having me, Dave. Excellent conversation as always. Thanks for having me again. >> You're very welcome. And thank you for watching everybody. This is theCube's continuous coverage of HPE Discover 2021. Of course, the virtual version. Next year, we're going to be back live. My name is Dave Volante. Keep it right there. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. Robert Christiansen joins me, one of our alumni the VP of Strategy in the Office of the CTO at HPE. Robert, it's great to see you, welcome back to the program. >> It's nice being here, Lisa. Thank you so much for having me. >> So here we are still in this virtual world. Things are opening up a little bit, which is nice but one of the things I'm excited to talk to you about today is Edge to Cloud from the customer's perspective. Obviously, that's why HPE does what it does for its customers. So let's talk about some of the things that you see from your perspective, with respect to data. We can't have a Cube conversation without talking about data, there's more and more of it, value but getting access to it quickly, getting access to it in real-time and often cases to make data-driven decisions is a challenging thing to do. Talk to me about what you see from the customer's lens. >> Well, the customer at a very highest level from the board level on down they're saying, "Hey, what is our data strategy? How are we going to put the value of data in place? Are we going to have it manifest its value in an internal fashion where it makes us run better as an organization? Can we get cost improvements? Can we move quicker with that? And then can we monetize that data if it's like very specific to an industry like healthcare or pharma or something like that? Can we expose that data to the rest of the world and give them access into what we call like data sets?" And there's a lot of that going on right now too. So we're seeing these two different angles about how they're going to manage and control that data. And you were talking about, and you mentioned it, you know the Edge related focus around that. You know, the Edges where business is done is where people actually do the transaction whether it's in a healthcare like in a hospital or a manufacturing facility et cetera. And then, but that data that they're using at that location is really important to make a decision at that location. They can't send it back to a Cloud. They can't send it back to someplace, wait for a decision to happen and then shoot it back again and say, "Hey, stop the production line because we found a defect." You need to act at that moment which the clients are saying, "Hey, can you improve my reliability? Can you give me better SLS? Can you improve the quality of my products? Can you improve healthcare in a hospital by immediate decisions?" And that is a data problem. And that requires the movement of compute and networking and storage and fundamentally the core piece of HPE's world. But in addition to that, the software necessary to take the action on that data when they detect that there's some action that needs to be taken. >> And I mentioned a minute ago, you know real-time and we've learned in the last 15 months plus. One of the things we learned is for a lot of cases, access to real-time data is no longer a nice to have. It's really going to be something, an element that separates those that succeed versus those that aren't as competitive. But I want to talk about data from a consumption perspective consumers, producers, obviously, meeting to ensure that the data consumers have what they need, what is it? What is your thought when you talk with customers, the consumers versus the producers? >> Yeah, that's a great question, Lisa. One of the key fundamental areas that HPE and the Office of the CTO has really been focused on over the last six months is something that we call data spaces and that is putting in place a platform, a set of services that connect data consumers with data producers. And when you think about that, that really isn't nothing new. I mean, you could go all the way back, if you've been around for a while remember the company called TRW and they used to have credit reporting, and they used to sell that stuff. And then it moved into Experian and those things. But you've got Bloomberg and next LexisNexis and all these companies that sell data. And they've been doing it, but it's very siloed. And so the explosion of data, the valuableness the value of the data for the consumers of it has put the producers in a position where they can't readily be discovered. And whether it be a private source of data like an IoT device and an industrial control, or a set of data that might say, "Hey, here's credit card for our data on a certain geography." Those sets need to be discovered, curated, and be made available to those who would want that. You know, for example, the folks that want to know how IoT device is working inside an industrial control or a company who's trying to lower their fraud rates on credit card transactions, like in stadiums or something like that. And so this discoverability in this space, or what you just talked about is such a core piece of what we're working on right now. And we haven't, our strategy is not only to just work on what HPE has to bring that and manifest that to the marketplace. But more importantly, how are we working with our partners to really bridge that gap and bring that next generation of services to those clients that can make those connections. >> So connecting and facilitating collaboration, absolutely key, as well as that seamless flow of data sharing without constraints. How are customers working with HPE and some of your partners to be able to create a data strategy, launch it, and start gleaning value from data faster than they can before? (Robert chuckles) >> This is the big question because it's a maturity curve. Organizations are in various states of what we call data maturity or data management maturity. They can be in very early stages. You know what we consider, you know, they just more worried about just maintaining the lights on DR strategies and make sure that data doesn't go away versus all the way through a whole cycle where they're actually governing it and putting it into what I call those discoverable buckets that are made available. And there's a whole life cycle about that. And so we see a big opportunity here for our A&PS and other professional services organizations to help people get up that maturity curve. But they also have to have the foundational tools necessary to make that happen. This is really where the Ezmeral product line or software applications really shines being able to give that undercarriage that's necessary to help that data maturity and the growth of that client to meet those data needs. And we see the data fabric being a key element to that, for that distributed model, allowing people to get access and availability to have a highly redundant, highly durable data fabric and then to build applications specifically as data-intensive applications on top of that with the Ezmeral platform all the way into our GreenLake solutions. So it's quite a journey here, Lisa. I want to just, point to the fact that HPE has done a really, really good job of positioning itself for the explosion of all of these data-intensive AI/ML workloads that are making their way into every single conversation every single enterprise to this day that wants to take advantage of the value of the data they have and to augment that data through other sources. >> One, when you think about data-intensive applications the first one that pops into my mind is Uber. And it's one of those applications that we just expect. We kind of think of as a taxi service when really it's logistics and transportation, but all of the data on the backend that it is organizing to find the ride for me at my location to take me where I'm going. The explosion of data-intensive applications is great but there's also so much more demand from consumers whether we're in business or we're consuming in our personal lives. >> It's so true and that's a very popular example. And you know, you think about the real-time necessity of what's the traffic patterns at the time I order my thing. Is it going to route me the right way? That's a very real consumer facing one, but if we click into our clients and where HPE very much is like the backbone of the global economy. We provide probably one third of the compute for the global economy and it's a staggering stat if you really think about it. Our clients, I was just talking with a client here earlier, very, very large financial services company. And they have 1200 data sets that have been selling to their clients globally. And a lot of these clients want to augment that data with their existing real-time data to come up with a solution. And so they merge it and they can determine some value through a model, an AI model. And so we're working hand-in-hand with them right now to give them that backbone so that they can deliver data sets into these other systems and then make sure they get controlled and secured. So that the company we're working with, our client has a deep sense of security that that data set is not going to find itself out into the wild somewhere. And uncontrolled for a number of reasons, from security and governance mind. But the number of use cases, Lisa are as infinite as the number of opportunities for people see value in business today. >> When you're talking about 1200 data sets that a company is selling, and of course there are many, many data sets that many types of companies consume. How do you work with them to ensure that they don't just proliferate silos, but that they get more of a unified data repository that they can act on? >> Yeah, that's a great question. A key tenant of the strategy at HPE is Open-source. So we believe in a hybrid, multi-Cloud environment meaning that as long as we all agree that we are going to standardize on Open-source technologies and APIs, we will be able to write and build applications that can natively run on any abstract platform. So for example, it's very important that we containerize, for example, and we use storage and data tools that adhere to Open standards. So if you think about that, if you write a Spark application you want that Spark application potentially to run on any of the hyperscalers, the Amazon's or the Microsoft to GCPS, or you want it to run on-premises and specifically like on HPE equipment. But the idea here is I consider one of our clients right now. I mean, think about that. One of our clients specifically ask that question that you just said. They said, "Hey, we are building out this platform, this next generation platform. And we don't want the lock-in. We want to be, we want to create that environment where that data and the data framework." So they use very specific Open -source data frameworks and they open, they use very specific application frameworks the software from the Open-source community. We were able to meet that through the Ezmeral platform. Give them a very high availability, five nines high availability, redundant, redundant geographically to geographic data centers to give them that security that they're looking for. And because of that, it's opened so many other doors for us to walk in with a Cloud strategy that is an alternative, not just the one bet to public Cloud but you haven't other opportunity to bring a Cloud strategy on-premises that is compatible with Cloud-native activities that are going on in the public Cloud. And this is at the heart of HPE strategy. I think it's just, it's been paying off. It continues to pay off. We just keep investing and keep moving down that path. I think we're going to be doing really well. >> It sounds to me that the strategy that HP is developing is highly collaborative and synergistic with your customers. Talk to me a little bit about that, especially in the last year, as we've seen a massive acceleration in digital transformation about the rapid pivot to work from home, the necessity to collaborate electronically. Talk to me a little bit about that yin and yang with HPE and its customers in terms of your strategy. >> Yeah, well, I think when COVID hit one of the very first things that just took off with VDI. Rohit Dixon and I were talking on a podcast we had earlier around the work from home strategy that was implemented almost immediately. Well, we had it already in the can, we already were doing it for many clients already but it went from like a three priority to a 12, 10 being the max. Super, super charged up on how do we get work from home secured, work from home applications and stuff in the hands of people doing, you know, when data sensitivity is super important, VDI kicks in that's on that side. But then if you start looking at the digital transformation that has to happen in the supply chain that's going on right now. The opening up of our economies it's been various starts and stops if you look around the globe. The supply chains have absolutely gone under a huge amount of pressure, because, unlike in the United States, everybody just wants everything now because things are starting to open up. I was talking to a meat packing company and a restaurant business a little while ago. And they said, "Everybody wants to order the barbecue. Now we can't get the meat for the barbecues 'cause everybody's going to the barbecues." And so the supply, this is a multi-billion dollar industry supplying meat to all of the rest of the countries and stuff like that. And so they don't have optics into that supply chain today. So they're immediately having to go through a digitization process, the transformation in something as what you would call as low tech as delivering meat. So no industry is immune, none anywhere in this whole process. And it will continue to evolve as we exit and change how we live our life going into these next couple of years. I think it's going to be phenomenal just to watch. >> Yeah, it's one of the things I call a COVID catalyst some of the silver linings that have come out of this 'cause I wouldn't have thought of the meatpacking industry as a technology field as well, but now thanks to you, I will. Last question for you. When customers in this dynamic world in which we're still living talk about Edge to Cloud are they working with you to develop a Cloud initiatives, Cloud mandates, Cloud everywhere? And if so, how do you help them start? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So again, it's like back into the data model, everybody has a different degree or a starting point that they will engage us with a strategy but specifically with what you're talking about. Almost everybody already has a Cloud strategy. So they may be at different maturity levels with that Cloud strategy. And there's almost always a Cloud group. Now, historically HPE has not had much of a foot in the Cloud group because they never really historically looked at us says that HPE is a Cloud company. But what's happened over the last couple of years with the acceleration of the acceptance of Cloud on-premises and GreenLake, specifically, and the introduction of Ezmeral and the Cloud-native infrastructure services and past layer stuff that's coming up through the Ezmeral product into our clients. It's immediately opened the door for conversations around Cloud that is available for what is staying on-premises which is in excess of 70% of the applications today. Now, if you were to take that now and extend that into the Edge conversation, what if you were able to take a smaller form factor of a GreenLake Cloud and push it more closer to an Edge location while still giving the similar capabilities, Cloud-native functions that you had before? When we're provocative with clients in that sense they suddenly open up and see the art of the possible. And so this is where we are really, really breaking down a set of paradigms of what's possible by introducing, you know, not just from the Silicon all the way up but the set of services all the way to the top of stack to the actual application that they're going to be running. And we say, "Hey, we can offer it to you in as a pay as you go model, we can get you the consumption models that are necessary, that lets you buy at the same way as the Cloud offers it. But more importantly, we'll be able to run it for you and provide you an abstraction out of that model. So you don't have to send your people out into the field to do these things. We have the software, the tools, and the systems necessary to manage it for you." But the last part is I want to be really really focused on when clients are writing that application for the Edge that matters. They are putting it into new Cloud-native architectures containers, microservices, they're using solid pipelines development pipelines, they've implemented what they call their DevOps or their DataOps practices in field, in country, if you would say. That's where we shine. And so we had a really, really good conversation start there. And so how we start that is we arrive with a set of blueprints to help them establish what that roadmap looks like. And then our professional services staff, or A&PS groups around the globe are really really set up well to help them take that trip. >> Wow, that's outstanding, Robert. We could have a whole conversation on HPE's transformation. Internet itself that was my first job in tech was at Hewlett Packard back in the day. But this has been really interesting, really getting it your vision of the customer's experience and the customer's perspective from the Office of the CTO. Great to talk to you, Robert. Thank you for sharing all that you did. This could have been a Part 2 conversation. >> Well, I'm hopeful then that we'll do Part 3 and 4 here as the months go by. So I look forward to seeing you again, Lisa. >> Deal, that's a deal. All right. >> All right. >> For Robert Christiansen, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2021. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2021. I'm Lisa Martin. Robert Christiansen joins me, one of our alumni the VP of Strategy in the Office of the CTO at HPE. Robert, it's great to see you, welcome back to the program. >> It's nice being here, Lisa. Thank you so much for having me. >> So here we are still in this virtual world. Things are opening up a little bit, which is nice but one of the things I'm excited to talk to you about today is Edge to Cloud from the customer's perspective. Obviously, that's why HPE does what it does for its customers. So let's talk about some of the things that you see from your perspective, with respect to data. We can't have a Cube conversation without talking about data, there's more and more of it, value but getting access to it quickly, getting access to it in real-time and often cases to make data-driven decisions is a challenging thing to do. Talk to me about what you see from the customer's lens. >> Well, the customer at a very highest level from the board level on down they're saying, "Hey, what is our data strategy? How are we going to put the value of data in place? Are we going to have it manifest its value in an internal fashion where it makes us run better as an organization? Can we get cost improvements? Can we move quicker with that? And then can we monetize that data if it's like very specific to an industry like healthcare or pharma or something like that? Can we expose that data to the rest of the world and give them access into what we call like data sets?" And there's a lot of that going on right now too. So we're seeing these two different angles about how they're going to manage and control that data. And you were talking about, and you mentioned it, you know the Edge related focus around that. You know, the Edges where business is done is where people actually do the transaction whether it's in a healthcare like in a hospital or a manufacturing facility et cetera. And then, but that data that they're using at that location is really important to make a decision at that location. They can't send it back to a Cloud. They can't send it back to someplace, wait for a decision to happen and then shoot it back again and say, "Hey, stop the production line because we found a defect." You need to act at that moment which the clients are saying, "Hey, can you improve my reliability? Can you give me better SLS? Can you improve the quality of my products? Can you improve healthcare in a hospital by immediate decisions?" And that is a data problem. And that requires the movement of compute and networking and storage and fundamentally the core piece of HPE's world. But in addition to that, the software necessary to take the action on that data when they detect that there's some action that needs to be taken. >> And I mentioned a minute ago, you know real-time and we've learned in the last 15 months plus. One of the things we learned is for a lot of cases, access to real-time data is no longer a nice to have. It's really going to be something, an element that separates those that succeed versus those that aren't as competitive. But I want to talk about data from a consumption perspective consumers, producers, obviously, meeting to ensure that the data consumers have what they need, what is it? What is your thought when you talk with customers, the consumers versus the producers? >> Yeah, that's a great question, Lisa. One of the key fundamental areas that HPE and the Office of the CTO has really been focused on over the last six months is something that we call data spaces and that is putting in place a platform, a set of services that connect data consumers with data producers. And when you think about that, that really isn't nothing new. I mean, you could go all the way back, if you've been around for a while remember the company called TRW and they used to have credit reporting, and they used to sell that stuff. And then it moved into Experian and those things. But you've got Bloomberg and next LexisNexis and all these companies that sell data. And they've been doing it, but it's very siloed. And so the explosion of data, the valuableness the value of the data for the consumers of it has put the producers in a position where they can't readily be discovered. And whether it be a private source of data like an IoT device and an industrial control, or a set of data that might say, "Hey, here's credit card for our data on a certain geography." Those sets need to be discovered, curated, and be made available to those who would want that. You know, for example, the folks that want to know how IoT device is working inside an industrial control or a company who's trying to lower their fraud rates on credit card transactions, like in stadiums or something like that. And so this discoverability in this space, or what you just talked about is such a core piece of what we're working on right now. And we haven't, our strategy is not only to just work on what HPE has to bring that and manifest that to the marketplace. But more importantly, how are we working with our partners to really bridge that gap and bring that next generation of services to those clients that can make those connections. >> So connecting and facilitating collaboration, absolutely key, as well as that seamless flow of data sharing without constraints. How are customers working with HPE and some of your partners to be able to create a data strategy, launch it, and start gleaning value from data faster than they can before? (Robert chuckles) >> This is the big question because it's a maturity curve. Organizations are in various states of what we call data maturity or data management maturity. They can be in very early stages. You know what we consider, you know, they just more worried about just maintaining the lights on DR strategies and make sure that data doesn't go away versus all the way through a whole cycle where they're actually governing it and putting it into what I call those discoverable buckets that are made available. And there's a whole life cycle about that. And so we see a big opportunity here for our A&PS and other professional services organizations to help people get up that maturity curve. But they also have to have the foundational tools necessary to make that happen. This is really where the Ezmeral product line or software applications really shines being able to give that undercarriage that's necessary to help that data maturity and the growth of that client to meet those data needs. And we see the data fabric being a key element to that, for that distributed model, allowing people to get access and availability to have a highly redundant, highly durable data fabric and then to build applications specifically as data-intensive applications on top of that with the Ezmeral platform all the way into our GreenLake solutions. So it's quite a journey here, Lisa. I want to just, point to the fact that HPE has done a really, really good job of positioning itself for the explosion of all of these data-intensive AI/ML workloads that are making their way into every single conversation every single enterprise to this day that wants to take advantage of the value of the data they have and to augment that data through other sources. >> One, when you think about data-intensive applications the first one that pops into my mind is Uber. And it's one of those applications that we just expect. We kind of think of as a taxi service when really it's logistics and transportation, but all of the data on the backend that it is organizing to find the ride for me at my location to take me where I'm going. The explosion of data-intensive applications is great but there's also so much more demand from consumers whether we're in business or we're consuming in our personal lives. >> It's so true and that's a very popular example. And you know, you think about the real-time necessity of what's the traffic patterns at the time I order my thing. Is it going to route me the right way? That's a very real consumer facing one, but if we click into our clients and where HPE very much is like the backbone of the global economy. We provide probably one third of the compute for the global economy and it's a staggering stat if you really think about it. Our clients, I was just talking with a client here earlier, very, very large financial services company. And they have 1200 data sets that have been selling to their clients globally. And a lot of these clients want to augment that data with their existing real-time data to come up with a solution. And so they merge it and they can determine some value through a model, an AI model. And so we're working hand-in-hand with them right now to give them that backbone so that they can deliver data sets into these other systems and then make sure they get controlled and secured. So that the company we're working with, our client has a deep sense of security that that data set is not going to find itself out into the wild somewhere. And uncontrolled for a number of reasons, from security and governance mind. But the number of use cases, Lisa are as infinite as the number of opportunities for people see value in business today. >> When you're talking about 1200 data sets that a company is selling, and of course there are many, many data sets that many types of companies consume. How do you work with them to ensure that they don't just proliferate silos, but that they get more of a unified data repository that they can act on? >> Yeah, that's a great question. A key tenant of the strategy at HPE is Open-source. So we believe in a hybrid, multi-Cloud environment meaning that as long as we all agree that we are going to standardize on Open-source technologies and APIs, we will be able to write and build applications that can natively run on any abstract platform. So for example, it's very important that we containerize, for example, and we use storage and data tools that adhere to Open standards. So if you think about that, if you write a Spark application you want that Spark application potentially to run on any of the hyperscalers, the Amazon's or the Microsoft to GCPS, or you want it to run on-premises and specifically like on HPE equipment. But the idea here is I consider one of our clients right now. I mean, think about that. One of our clients specifically ask that question that you just said. They said, "Hey, we are building out this platform, this next generation platform. And we don't want the lock-in. We want to be, we want to create that environment where that data and the data framework." So they use very specific Open -source data frameworks and they open, they use very specific application frameworks the software from the Open-source community. We were able to meet that through the Ezmeral platform. Give them a very high availability, five nines high availability, redundant, redundant geographically to geographic data centers to give them that security that they're looking for. And because of that, it's opened so many other doors for us to walk in with a Cloud strategy that is an alternative, not just the one bet to public Cloud but you haven't other opportunity to bring a Cloud strategy on-premises that is compatible with Cloud-native activities that are going on in the public Cloud. And this is at the heart of HPE strategy. I think it's just, it's been paying off. It continues to pay off. We just keep investing and keep moving down that path. I think we're going to be doing really well. >> It sounds to me that the strategy that HP is developing is highly collaborative and synergistic with your customers. Talk to me a little bit about that, especially in the last year, as we've seen a massive acceleration in digital transformation about the rapid pivot to work from home, the necessity to collaborate electronically. Talk to me a little bit about that yin and yang with HPE and its customers in terms of your strategy. >> Yeah, well, I think when COVID hit one of the very first things that just took off with VDI. Rohit Dixon and I were talking on a podcast we had earlier around the work from home strategy that was implemented almost immediately. Well, we had it already in the can, we already were doing it for many clients already but it went from like a three priority to a 12, 10 being the max. Super, super charged up on how do we get work from home secured, work from home applications and stuff in the hands of people doing, you know, when data sensitivity is super important, VDI kicks in that's on that side. But then if you start looking at the digital transformation that has to happen in the supply chain that's going on right now. The opening up of our economies it's been various starts and stops if you look around the globe. The supply chains have absolutely gone under a huge amount of pressure, because, unlike in the United States, everybody just wants everything now because things are starting to open up. I was talking to a meat packing company and a restaurant business a little while ago. And they said, "Everybody wants to order the barbecue. Now we can't get the meat for the barbecues 'cause everybody's going to the barbecues." And so the supply, this is a multi-billion dollar industry supplying meat to all of the rest of the countries and stuff like that. And so they don't have optics into that supply chain today. So they're immediately having to go through a digitization process, the transformation in something as what you would call as low tech as delivering meat. So no industry is immune, none anywhere in this whole process. And it will continue to evolve as we exit and change how we live our life going into these next couple of years. I think it's going to be phenomenal just to watch. >> Yeah, it's one of the things I call a COVID catalyst some of the silver linings that have come out of this 'cause I wouldn't have thought of the meatpacking industry as a technology field as well, but now thanks to you, I will. Last question for you. When customers in this dynamic world in which we're still living talk about Edge to Cloud are they working with you to develop a Cloud initiatives, Cloud mandates, Cloud everywhere? And if so, how do you help them start? >> Yeah, that's a great question. So again, it's like back into the data model, everybody has a different degree or a starting point that they will engage us with a strategy but specifically with what you're talking about. Almost everybody already has a Cloud strategy. So they may be at different maturity levels with that Cloud strategy. And there's almost always a Cloud group. Now, historically HPE has not had much of a foot in the Cloud group because they never really historically looked at us says that HPE is a Cloud company. But what's happened over the last couple of years with the acceleration of the acceptance of Cloud on-premises and GreenLake, specifically, and the introduction of Ezmeral and the Cloud-native infrastructure services and past layer stuff that's coming up through the Ezmeral product into our clients. It's immediately opened the door for conversations around Cloud that is available for what is staying on-premises which is in excess of 70% of the applications today. Now, if you were to take that now and extend that into the Edge conversation, what if you were able to take a smaller form factor of a GreenLake Cloud and push it more closer to an Edge location while still giving the similar capabilities, Cloud-native functions that you had before? When we're provocative with clients in that sense they suddenly open up and see the art of the possible. And so this is where we are really, really breaking down a set of paradigms of what's possible by introducing, you know, not just from the Silicon all the way up but the set of services all the way to the top of stack to the actual application that they're going to be running. And we say, "Hey, we can offer it to you in as a pay as you go model, we can get you the consumption models that are necessary, that lets you buy at the same way as the Cloud offers it. But more importantly, we'll be able to run it for you and provide you an abstraction out of that model. So you don't have to send your people out into the field to do these things. We have the software, the tools, and the systems necessary to manage it for you." But the last part is I want to be really really focused on when clients are writing that application for the Edge that matters. They are putting it into new Cloud-native architectures containers, microservices, they're using solid pipelines development pipelines, they've implemented what they call their DevOps or their DataOps practices in field, in country, if you would say. That's where we shine. And so we had a really, really good conversation start there. And so how we start that is we arrive with a set of blueprints to help them establish what that roadmap looks like. And then our professional services staff, or A&PS groups around the globe are really really set up well to help them take that trip. >> Wow, that's outstanding, Robert. We could have a whole conversation on HPE's transformation. Internet itself that was my first job in tech was at Hewlett Packard back in the day. But this has been really interesting, really getting it your vision of the customer's experience and the customer's perspective from the Office of the CTO. Great to talk to you, Robert. Thank you for sharing all that you did. This could have been a Part 2 conversation. >> Well, I'm hopeful then that we'll do Part 3 and 4 here as the months go by. So I look forward to seeing you again, Lisa. >> Deal, that's a deal. All right. >> All right. >> For Robert Christiansen, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE's coverage of HPE Discover 2021. (upbeat music)

(lively music) >> Welcome back to HPE Discover 2021. My name is Dave Vellante and you're watching theCUBE's virtual coverage of Discover '21, and we're excited to welcome back Arwa Kaddoura, she's a vice president and world-wide go-to market leader for HPE's smoking hot GreenLake Cloud Services. Arwa, welcome back to theCUBE, good to see you again. >> Thank you for having me, it's good to be with you. >> So, talk about how your products and services are supporting customer transformations. I'm interested in the experience that everybody's been dreaming about. Describe how you're giving your customer that competitive advantage. And if you've got an examples, that would be awesome. >> Yeah, you got it. I think as we heard Antonio say, that cloud is an experience, not a destination, right? And what we're doing with GreenLake is bringing those cloud capabilities and the cloud experience to our customers. You know, we like to say, colocations, data center and edge of course. So this is the cloud on prem. And so rather than forcing customers to only have to go up to cloud, to get modern cloud capabilities or the benefits of things like, pay as you go for consumption, etc, cloud native capabilities, like containers, leveraging Kubernetes, we now bring all of that to GreenLake and to our customers, edge locations, and Colocation and data centers. We've been able to dramatically transform many of our customers businesses, right, and you'll probably see it discover some of those examples come to life, for example, Carestream, who is in the electronic medical imaging world, right, they have all of the X-Ray equipment that capture X-rays and different sort of diagnostics for patients. And we worked with them to not only craft a ML solution to better read and diagnose these images, but also all of the underlying infrastructure with the HPE GreenLake ML Ops platform that allows them to instantly leverage the capabilities of machine learning and the infrastructure to go with it. >> And so tell me, so how is it resonating with customers? They're talking to customers all the time? What do they tell you? >> Sure, you know I think what our customers appreciate about HP GreenLake is, it's not sort of look, it's either all on prem in my data center, and I have to fully manage it, build it, implement it, take care of it, or it's fully public cloud, I have little control and basically, I get whatever the public cloud gives me, right? HPE GreenLake gives our customers the flexibility and control that they require, right? And so you can think of many use cases where customers have a need to have the compute storage sort of processing need to happen closer to where their data and apps live. And so for that exact reason, our customers love the flexibility, right. Cloud One Dotto was public cloud, Cloud Two Dotto I think is the cloud that comes to our customers at their convenience. And to me, what I tell CIOs and CTOs and sort of other lines of business leaders when I meet with them, is you shouldn't be forced to have to take your data and apps elsewhere to get the transformation that you need. We want to be able to bring that directly to our customers. >> 'Cause a lot of the transformation is around data, we love talking about data on theCUBE. It's funny, I mean, we talked about big data last decade, we don't use that term much anymore. It was kind of overhyped, but as oftentimes is the case may be in the early days it's overhyped, but then it's underhyped. When it actually starts to kick in, and I feel like we're entering a new age of data and insights with the ascendancy of machine learning and AI. What does this mean from HPEs perspective and what are customers telling you that it means for them? >> Yeah, now, data I think, we often hear data is the new currency, right? It's the new gold. we've heard Antonio even say things like, data can even become something that maybe over time companies start to put some kind of value on their balance sheet behind, right, the same way that maybe brands represented this value on a balance sheet. Effectively, what's happened with data is, a lot of people have a lot of data. But there's not been a lot of ability to extract insights from data, right. And I think this is the new revolution that we're all undergoing is we finally have the modern analytics tools to actually turn the data into insights. And what we bring to the table from an HPE perspective is the fact that we have the best infrastructure, we obviously now have the cloud capabilities mixed in with our data fabric or container platform, or machine learning operations platform, to then be able to process that data, again, integrated with many of the great ISV partners that we have on the data side allow our customers to turn that into real insights for their business. And effectively data is becoming a huge competitive advantage, right? I think many of us are leveraging some pretty interesting tools or gadgets these days, right? Like, I wear one of those sleep rings. You can imagine a company like that in the future that's able to collect so much data from the folks that purchase their products, then being able to give us insights about, where's the best ZIP Code that people get the most amount of sleep and which ZIP Codes are the healthiest in the United States or countries, et cetera? But data really is becoming a competitive advantage. And one of the things that we care most about at HPE is also using it as a force for good and making sure that there is a sort of ethical AI capability. >> That's a great message and very important one. It's interesting what you're saying about data and the value, how we value, it's clearly being valued in terms of companies' market caps, but maybe it's not in the balance sheet yet, but it's on the income statement in terms of data products and data services that that's happening. So, maybe we'll see if Antonia is right in the next several years. But so, let's talk more about the specific data challenges that you're solving for your customers, they talk about silos, they talk about, they haven't gotten as much value out of their data initiatives as they wanted to. What are they telling you are their challenges and how are you approaching it? >> Yeah, I think data is everywhere, right? The ability for customers to store the right amount of data is a huge challenge. Because obviously, there's a huge cost associated with collecting, keeping, cleansing, processing, all the way to sort of analyzing your data. There tends to be a ton of data silos, right. So customers are looking for a common data fabric that they can then process their data sources across, and then be able to sort of tap into that data from an analytics perspective. So much of the technology, again, that we're focused on is be able to store the data, right, our Data Fabric layer with Ezmeral, right, being able to process that data, capture that data, and then allow the analytics tools to then harness the power of that data and turn that into real business insights for our customers. Every customer that I spoken to whether their financial services, you can imagine the big financial services, I mean, they've got just bazillions of pockets of data everywhere. And the real sort of challenge for them is how do I build a common data platform that allows me to tap into that data in effective ways for my business users? >> Can you talk a little bit about how you're changing the way you're providing solutions, maybe you could contrast it with the way HPE has done in the past? Because I think that's important when you think about, you talk a lot about GreenLake and as a service. But if the products are still kind of boxes and lands and gigahertz and ports, then that's a discontinuity. So, what's changed from the past and how are you feeding into the way customers are transforming their business and supporting their outcomes? >> That's exactly right. At some point in time, right, if you think maybe 10 or 20 years back, it used to be very much about the infrastructure for HPE. What's exciting about what we're doing differently for our customers, is, look, we have the best infrastructure in the business, right? HPE has been doing this longer than anyone has probably almost 60 years now. But being able to vertically integrate right, move up in that value chain so that our customers can get more complete solutions, is the more interesting part for our customers. Our customers love our technology yes, the gigahertz and the speeds and feeds, all of that do matter because they make for some very powerful infrastructure. However, what makes it easier is the fact that we are building platform stacks on top of that hardware, that help abstract away the complexity of that infrastructure and the ability to use it far more seamlessly. And then, if you think about it we of course have also one of the most advanced services organizations. So being able to leverage our services capabilities, our platform capabilities, on top of that hardware, again, deliver it back to our customers in a consumption model, which they've come to expect from a cloud model. And then surrounded by a very rich ecosystem of partners, and we're talking about system integrators that now have capabilities on helping our customers run their GreenLake environments. We're talking about ISVs, right, so software stacks and platforms that fully integrate with the GreenLake platform for completely seamless solutions, as well as channel partners and global distributors. So I think that's where we can truly deliver the ultimate end-to-end solution. It's not just the hardware, right? But it's being complemented with the right services, being complemented with the right platform capabilities, the software integrations to deliver that workload that the customer expects. >> So customers and partners, they got to place bets, they've got to put resources, time, money, and align their resources with their partners and their suppliers like HPE. So when they ask you, hey, okay, "HPE, tell me what's your overall strategy? "Why is it compelling? "And why do you give me competitive advantage relative to some of your peers in the industry?" >> Yeah, I think what partners are going to be most excited about is the openness of the platform, right? Being able to allow our partners to leverage GreenLake Central with open API, so that they can integrate some of their own technologies into our platform, the ability to allow them to also layer in their own managed services on top of the platform is key. And, of course, being able to build sort of these win-win solutions with the system integrators, right? The system integrators have some fantastic capabilities all the way from an application development, all the way down to the infrastructure management, and data center delivery centers that they have. And so leveraging HPE GreenLake really helps them have access to the core technologies that they need to deliver these solutions. >> I wonder if I could take a little sort of side road here and ask you because so many changes going on, HPE itself is transforming, your customers are transforming, the pandemic has accelerated all these transformations. Can you talk a little bit about how you've transformed go-to-market specifically in the context of as a service? I mean, that had to be quite a change for you guys. >> Yeah, now go-to-market transformations in support of sort of moving from traditional go-to-markets, right, to cloud go-to-markets are significant. They required us to really think through what does delivering as a service solutions mean for our direct Salesforce? What does it mean for our partners and their transformations and being able to support as a service solutions? For HPE specifically, it also means thinking about our customer outcomes, not just our ability to ship the requisite hardware and say, look, once it's left our dock, our job is done, right. It really takes our obligation all the way to the customer using the technology on a day by day basis, as well as supporting them in making sure that everything from implementation to set up to the ongoing monitoring operations of the technology is working for them in the way that they'd expect in an as a service way, right? We don't expect them to operate it, we don't expect them to do anything more than pick up the phone and call us if something doesn't go as planned. >> Then how about your sellers and your partners? How did they respond? I mean, you wake up one day is Okay guys, here we go. New compensation scheme, new way to sell, new way to market. That took some thought and some time and where are you in that journey? >> That's right. And I always say, if you expect people to wake up one day and be transformed, right, you're kidding yourself. So everything from sort of the way that we think about our customers use cases, right, and empowering our sellers to understand the outcomes that our customers expect and demand from us to things like compensation to the partner rebate program that we leverage through the channel partners in order to give them the right incentives to also allow them to make the right investments to support GreenLake. HPE has a fairly significant field, sales and solution team. And so not thinking about this only as a single person that represents GreenLake, but looking at our capabilities across the board, right, we have fantastic advisory consultants on the ground with PhDs and data science, we have folks that understand high performance computing. So making sure that we're embedding the expertise in all of the right personas that support our customers, not just from a comp perspective, but also from an understanding of the end-to-end solutions that we're bringing to those markets. >> So what gets you stoked in the morning, you get out of bed, you're like, "Okay, I'm going to go attack the world." What are you most excited about for HPE and its future? >> There's so much happening right now in this sort of cloud world, right? To me, the most exciting portion is the fact that given that we've now introduced on prem cloud to the world, our ability to ship new services and new capabilities, but also do that via a very rich partner ecosystem, honestly is what probably has me most excited. This is no longer the age of go-at-it-alone, right. So not only are our engineering and product teams hard at work in the engine room producing capabilities at sort of lightning fast speeds, but it's also our ability to partner, whether it's with platform providers, software providers, or system integrators and services providers. That ecosystem is starting to come together to deliver highly meaningful solutions to our customers and all in a very open way. The number one thing that I personally care about is that our customers never feel like they are being locked in, or that they are sort of being forced, have to give up certain levels of capabilities, we want to give them the best of what's out there and allow them to then have that flexibility in their solution. >> And one of the challenges, of course, with virtual events is you don't have the hallway track, somebody can say, "Hey, have you seen that IoT zone? It's amazing, they got all these robots going around." So what would you say that people should be focused on at discover maybe things that you want to call out specific highlights or segments that you think are relevant? >> Yeah, there's going to be a ton of fantastic stuff. I think, really looking for that edge to cloud strategy, that we're going to be spending a lot of time talking about looking at some of our vertical workload solutions, right? We're going to be talking about quite a few from electronic healthcare records, to payment solutions and many more. I think, depending on what folks are interested in there's going to be something for everyone. Project Aurora, which now starts to announce our new security capabilities, the zero trust capabilities that we're delivering is probably interesting to a lot of our customers. So lots of exciting things coming and I'm excited for our customers to check those out. >> No doubt, that's a hot topic, especially given what's been happening in the news these past several months. Arwa, thanks so much for coming back in theCUBE. It's great to see you hopefully face-to-face next time. >> Thank you, I sure hope so. Thanks so much for having me. >> It was our pleasure. And thank you for watching and thank you for being with us in our ongoing coverage of HPE Discover 2021. This is Dave Vellante. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in digital tech coverage. >> Thank you. (soft music)

(upbeat music) >> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto, in Boston bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is braking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> Database is the heart of enterprise computing. The market is both exploding and it's evolving. The major force is transforming the space include Cloud and data, of course, but also new workloads, advanced memory and IO capabilities, new processor types, a massive push towards simplicity, new data sharing and governance models, and a spate of venture investment. Snowflake stands out as the gold standard for operational excellence and go to market execution. The company has attracted the attention of customers, investors, and competitors and everyone from entrenched players to upstarts once in the act. Hello everyone and welcome to this week's Wikibon CUBE Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we'll share our most current thinking on the database marketplace and dig into Snowflake's execution. Some of its challenges and we'll take a look at how others are making moves to solve customer problems and try to get a piece of the growing database pie. Let's look at some of the factors that are driving market momentum. First, customers want lower license costs. They want simplicity. They want to avoid database sprawl. They want to run anywhere and manage new data types. These needs often are divergent and they pull vendors and technologies in different direction. It's really hard for any one platform to accommodate every customer need. The market is large and it's growing. Gardner has it at around 60 to 65 billion with a CAGR of somewhere around 20% over the next five years. But the market, as we know it is being redefined. Traditionally, databases have served two broad use cases, OLTP or transactions and reporting like data warehouses. But a diversity of workloads and new architectures and innovations have given rise to a number of new types of databases to accommodate all these diverse customer needs. Many billions have been spent over the last several years in venture money and it continues to pour in. Let me just give you some examples. Snowflake prior to its IPO, raised around 1.4 billion. Redis Labs has raised more than 1/2 billion dollars so far, Cockroach Labs, more than 350 million, Couchbase, 250 million, SingleStore formerly MemSQL, 238 million, Yellowbrick Data, 173 million. And if you stretch the definition of database a little bit to including low-code or no-code, Airtable has raised more than 600 million. And that's by no means a complete list. Now, why is all this investment happening? Well, in a large part, it's due to the TAM. The TAM is huge and it's growing and it's being redefined. Just how big is this market? Let's take a look at a chart that we've shown previously. We use this chart to Snowflakes TAM, and it focuses mainly on the analytics piece, but we'll use it here to really underscore the market potential. So the actual database TAM is larger than this, we think. Cloud and Cloud-native technologies have changed the way we think about databases. Virtually 100% of the database players that they're are in the market have pivoted to a Cloud first strategy. And many like Snowflake, they're pretty dogmatic and have a Cloud only strategy. Databases has historically been very difficult to manage, they're really sensitive to latency. So that means they require a lot of tuning. Cloud allows you to throw virtually infinite resources on demand and attack performance problems and scale very quickly, minimizing the complexity and tuning nuances. This idea, this layer of data as a service we think of it as a staple of digital transformation. Is this layer that's forming to support things like data sharing across ecosystems and the ability to build data products or data services. It's a fundamental value proposition of Snowflake and one of the most important aspects of its offering. Snowflake tracks a metric called edges, which are external connections in its data Cloud. And it claims that 15% of its total shared connections are edges and that's growing at 33% quarter on quarter. This notion of data sharing is changing the way people think about data. We use terms like data as an asset. This is the language of the 2010s. We don't share our assets with others, do we? No, we protect them, we secure or them, we even hide them. But we absolutely don't want to share those assets but we do want to share our data. I had a conversation recently with Forrester analyst, Michelle Goetz. And we both agreed we're going to scrub data as an asset from our phrasiology. Increasingly, people are looking at sharing as a way to create, as I said, data products or data services, which can be monetized. This is an underpinning of Zhamak Dehghani's concept of a data mesh, make data discoverable, shareable and securely governed so that we can build data products and data services that can be monetized. This is where the TAM just explodes and the market is redefining. And we think is in the hundreds of billions of dollars. Let's talk a little bit about the diversity of offerings in the marketplace. Again, databases used to be either transactional or analytic. The bottom lines and top lines. And this chart here describe those two but the types of databases, you can see the middle of mushrooms, just looking at this list, blockchain is of course a specialized type of database and it's also finding its way into other database platforms. Oracle is notable here. Document databases that support JSON and graph data stores that assist in visualizing data, inference from multiple different sources. That's is one of the ways in which adtech has taken off and been so effective. Key Value stores, log databases that are purpose-built, machine learning to enhance insights, spatial databases to help build the next generation of products, the next automobile, streaming databases to manage real time data flows and time series databases. We might've missed a few, let us know if you think we have, but this is a kind of pretty comprehensive list that is somewhat mind boggling when you think about it. And these unique requirements, they've spawned tons of innovation and companies. Here's a small subset on this logo slide. And this is by no means an exhaustive list, but you have these companies here which have been around forever like Oracle and IBM and Teradata and Microsoft, these are the kind of the tier one relational databases that have matured over the years. And they've got properties like atomicity, consistency, isolation, durability, what's known as ACID properties, ACID compliance. Some others that you may or may not be familiar with, Yellowbrick Data, we talked about them earlier. It's going after the best price, performance and analytics and optimizing to take advantage of both hybrid installations and the latest hardware innovations. SingleStore, as I said, formerly known as MemSQL is a very high end analytics and transaction database, supports mixed workloads, extremely high speeds. We're talking about trillions of rows per second that could be ingested in query. Couchbase with hybrid transactions and analytics, Redis Labs, open source, no SQL doing very well, as is Cockroach with distributed SQL, MariaDB with its managed MySQL, Mongo and document database has a lot of momentum, EDB, which supports open source Postgres. And if you stretch the definition a bit, Splunk, for log database, why not? ChaosSearch, really interesting startup that leaves data in S-3 and is going after simplifying the ELK stack, New Relic, they have a purpose-built database for application performance management and we probably could have even put Workday in the mix as it developed a specialized database for its apps. Of course, we can't forget about SAP with how not trying to pry customers off of Oracle. And then the big three Cloud players, AWS, Microsoft and Google with extremely large portfolios of database offerings. The spectrum of products in this space is very wide, with you've got AWS, which I think we're up to like 16 database offerings, all the way to Oracle, which has like one database to do everything not withstanding MySQL because it owns MySQL got that through the Sun Acquisition. And it recently, it made some innovations there around the heat wave announcement. But essentially Oracle is investing to make its database, Oracle database run any workload. While AWS takes the approach of the right tool for the right job and really focuses on the primitives for each database. A lot of ways to skin a cat in this enormous and strategic market. So let's take a look at the spending data for the names that make it into the ETR survey. Not everybody we just mentioned will be represented because they may not have quite the market presence of the ends in the survey, but ETR that capture a pretty nice mix of players. So this chart here, it's one of the favorite views that we like to share quite often. It shows the database players across the 1500 respondents in the ETR survey this past quarter and it measures their net score. That's spending momentum and is shown on the vertical axis and market share, which is the pervasiveness in the data set is on the horizontal axis. The Snowflake is notable because it's been hovering around 80% net score since the survey started picking them up. Anything above 40%, that red line there, is considered by us to be elevated. Microsoft and AWS, they also stand out because they have both market presence and they have spending velocity with their platforms. Oracle is very large but it doesn't have the spending momentum in the survey because nearly 30% of Oracle installations are spending less, whereas only 22% are spending more. Now as a caution, this survey doesn't measure dollar spent and Oracle will be skewed toward the big customers with big budgets. So you got to consider that caveat when evaluating this data. IBM is in a similar position although its market share is not keeping up with Oracle's. Google, they've got great tech especially with BigQuery and it has elevated momentum. So not a bad spot to be in although I'm sure it would like to be closer to AWS and Microsoft on the horizontal axis, so it's got some work to do there. And some of the others we mentioned earlier, like MemSQL, Couchbase. As shown MemSQL here, they're now SingleStore. Couchbase, Reddis, Mongo, MariaDB, all very solid scores on the vertical axis. Cloudera just announced that it was selling to private equity and that will hopefully give it some time to invest in this platform and get off the quarterly shot clock. MapR was acquired by HPE and it's part of HPE's Ezmeral platform, their data platform which doesn't yet have the market presence in the survey. Now, something that is interesting in looking at in Snowflakes earnings last quarter, is this laser focused on large customers. This is a hallmark of Frank Slootman and Mike Scarpelli who I know they don't have a playbook but they certainly know how to go whale hunting. So this chart isolates the data that we just showed you to the global 1000. Note that both AWS and Snowflake go up higher on the X-axis meaning large customers are spending at a faster rate for these two companies. The previous chart had an end of 161 for Snowflake, and a 77% net score. This chart shows the global 1000, in the end there for Snowflake is 48 accounts and the net score jumps to 85%. We're not going to show it here but when you isolate the ETR data, nice you can just cut it, when you isolate it on the fortune 1000, the end for Snowflake goes to 59 accounts in the data set and Snowflake jumps another 100 basis points in net score. When you cut the data by the fortune 500, the Snowflake N goes to 40 accounts and the net score jumps another 200 basis points to 88%. And when you isolate on the fortune 100 accounts is only 18 there but it's still 18, their net score jumps to 89%, almost 90%. So it's very strong confirmation that there's a proportional relationship between larger accounts and spending momentum in the ETR data set. So Snowflakes large account strategy appears to be working. And because we think Snowflake is sticky, this probably is a good sign for the future. Now we've been talking about net score, it's a key measure in the ETR data set, so we'd like to just quickly remind you what that is and use Snowflake as an example. This wheel chart shows the components of net score, that lime green is new adoptions. 29% of the customers in the ETR dataset that are new to Snowflake. That's pretty impressive. 50% of the customers are spending more, that's the forest green, 20% are flat, that's the gray, and only 1%, the pink, are spending less. And 0% zero or replacing Snowflake, no defections. What you do here to get net scores, you subtract the red from the green and you get a net score of 78%. Which is pretty sick and has been sick as in good sick and has been steady for many, many quarters. So that's how the net score methodology works. And remember, it typically takes Snowflake customers many months like six to nine months to start consuming it's services at the contracted rate. So those 29% new adoptions, they're not going to kick into high gear until next year, so that bodes well for future revenue. Now, it's worth taking a quick snapshot at Snowflakes most recent quarter, there's plenty of stuff out there that you can you can google and get a summary but let's just do a quick rundown. The company's product revenue run rate is now at 856 million they'll surpass $1 billion on a run rate basis this year. The growth is off the charts very high net revenue retention. We've explained that before with Snowflakes consumption pricing model, they have to account for retention differently than what a SaaS company. Snowflake added 27 net new $1 million accounts in the quarter and claims to have more than a hundred now. It also is just getting its act together overseas. Slootman says he's personally going to spend more time in Europe, given his belief, that the market is huge and they can disrupt it and of course he's from the continent. He was born there and lived there and gross margins expanded, do in a large part to renegotiation of its Cloud costs. Welcome back to that in a moment. Snowflake it's also moving from a product led growth company to one that's more focused on core industries. Interestingly media and entertainment is one of the largest along with financial services and it's several others. To me, this is really interesting because Disney's example that Snowflake often puts in front of its customers as a reference. And it seems to me to be a perfect example of using data and analytics to both target customers and also build so-called data products through data sharing. Snowflake has to grow its ecosystem to live up to its lofty expectations and indications are that large SIS are leaning in big time. Deloitte cross the $100 million in deal flow in the quarter. And the balance sheet's looking good. Thank you very much with $5 billion in cash. The snarks are going to focus on the losses, but this is all about growth. This is a growth story. It's about customer acquisition, it's about adoption, it's about loyalty and it's about lifetime value. Now, as I said at the IPO, and I always say this to young people, don't buy a stock at the IPO. There's probably almost always going to be better buying opportunities ahead. I'm not always right about that, but I often am. Here's a chart of Snowflake's performance since IPO. And I have to say, it's held up pretty well. It's trading above its first day close and as predicted there were better opportunities than day one but if you have to make a call from here. I mean, don't take my stock advice, do your research. Snowflake they're priced to perfection. So any disappointment is going to be met with selling. You saw that the day after they beat their earnings last quarter because their guidance in revenue growth,. Wasn't in the triple digits, it sort of moderated down to the 80% range. And they pointed, they pointed to a new storage compression feature that will lower customer costs and consequently, it's going to lower their revenue. I swear, I think that that before earnings calls, Scarpelli sits back he's okay, what kind of creative way can I introduce the dampen enthusiasm for the guidance. Now I'm not saying lower storage costs will translate into lower revenue for a period of time. But look at dropping storage prices, customers are always going to buy more, that's the way the storage market works. And stuff like did allude to that in all fairness. Let me introduce something that people in Silicon Valley are talking about, and that is the Cloud paradox for SaaS companies. And what is that? I was a clubhouse room with Martin Casado of Andreessen when I first heard about this. He wrote an article with Sarah Wang, calling it to question the merits of SaaS companies sticking with Cloud at scale. Now the basic premise is that for startups in early stages of growth, the Cloud is a no brainer for SaaS companies, but at scale, the cost of Cloud, the Cloud bill approaches 50% of the cost of revenue, it becomes an albatross that stifles operating leverage. Their conclusion ended up saying that as much as perhaps as much as the back of the napkin, they admitted that, but perhaps as much as 1/2 a trillion dollars in market cap is being vacuumed away by the hyperscalers that could go to the SaaS providers as cost savings from repatriation. And that Cloud repatriation is an inevitable path for large SaaS companies at scale. I was particularly interested in this as I had recently put on a post on the Cloud repatriation myth. I think in this instance, there's some merit to their conclusions. But I don't think it necessarily bleeds into traditional enterprise settings. But for SaaS companies, maybe service now has it right running their own data centers or maybe a hybrid approach to hedge bets and save money down the road is prudent. What caught my attention in reading through some of the Snowflake docs, like the S-1 in its most recent 10-K were comments regarding long-term purchase commitments and non-cancelable contracts with Cloud companies. And the companies S-1, for example, there was disclosure of $247 million in purchase commitments over a five plus year period. And the company's latest 10-K report, that same line item jumped to 1.8 billion. Now Snowflake is clearly managing these costs as it alluded to when its earnings call. But one has to wonder, at some point, will Snowflake follow the example of say Dropbox which Andreessen used in his blog and start managing its own IT? Or will it stick with the Cloud and negotiate hard? Snowflake certainly has the leverage. It has to be one of Amazon's best partners and customers even though it competes aggressively with Redshift but on the earnings call, CFO Scarpelli said, that Snowflake was working on a new chip technology to dramatically increase performance. What the heck does that mean? Is this Snowflake is not becoming a hardware company? So I going to have to dig into that a little bit and find out what that it means. I'm guessing, it means that it's taking advantage of ARM-based processes like graviton, which many ISVs ar allowing their software to run on that lower cost platform. Or maybe there's some deep dark in the weeds secret going on inside Snowflake, but I doubt it. We're going to leave all that for there for now and keep following this trend. So it's clear just in summary that Snowflake they're the pace setter in this new exciting world of data but there's plenty of room for others. And they still have a lot to prove. For instance, one customer in ETR, CTO round table express skepticism that Snowflake will live up to its hype because its success is going to lead to more competition from well-established established players. This is a common theme you hear it all the time. It's pretty easy to reach that conclusion. But my guess is this the exact type of narrative that fuels Slootman and sucked him back into this game of Thrones. That's it for now, everybody. Remember, these episodes they're all available as podcasts, wherever you listen. All you got to do is search braking analysis podcast and please subscribe to series. Check out ETR his website at etr.plus. We also publish a full report every week on wikinbon.com and siliconangle.com. You can get in touch with me, Email is David.vellante@siliconangle.com. You can DM me at DVelante on Twitter or comment on our LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE Insights powered by ETR. Have a great week everybody, be well and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)