>> Narrator: Live from Manhattan, It's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit, New York City, 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back to Midtown. We're at the Javits Center here. (sound cuts out) 2017, along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls and you're watching The Cube as we continue with what's happening here. About five thousand people on the show floor and they said some twenty thousand registrants. Right Stew? That people came in and wanted to watch the keynotes live. >> It could be ten thousand that walked through before the days-- >> Right, it's hard to tell. >> Yeah. >> And right now half of them are outside looking for a cab I think. That's the way it works here. Ryan Kroonenburg is also here. He's the founder of a company called A Cloud Guru. >> Yes. >> I like Ryan already. I liked him as soon as we met him because he said, "like the beer, Kroonenburg." So you resonated with the two of us, Ryan. >> Ryan like the airline and Kroonenburg like the beer. >> We appreciate that. Alright, so you're a cloud education company. >> Yes. >> And you bill yourself or at least in the conversation as you want to be the Netflix of cloud education. That's what you're doing. Tell us a little bit about the founding of the company. It began with your brother? >> Yes, yeah. >> Just two years ago and now you've grown to some 40 employees. >> Yeah, so I used to be a solutions architect and I was desperate to get a job at AWS so I became obsessed with getting trained in AWS. And at the time, a company I worked for had a training freeze. So we couldn't go out and do in-classroom training. If I had to do that myself, I'd have to pay for it myself. And I found that there wasn't a lot of good on-line training companies two years ago. I didn't get the job with AWS and turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. And so I decided to create my own course on AWS. Launched that, started going viral and that was the birth of A Cloud Guru. >> Ryan, bring is in a little inside of building the company, so you're not only teaching cloud, but you're built on cloud and not just any cloud, but using the LAN to server list from pretty early on that. >> Exactly, so we practice what we preach. You know, we are real AWS engineers. We built the entire platform serverlessly. We think we're the world's first serverless start-up. We're certainly the world's first serverless learning management system. So we don't pay for any servers whatsoever. There's no virtual/physical servers. And we're basically, purely AWS native. We do use a bunch of third party services like Xero and PayPal and things like that. But most of our platforms are AWS. >> Yeah, in the keynote this morning, Adrian Cockroft talked about Bustle, A New York based start-up that uses a lot of serverless, but you built the company before you even had funding and now you've got a little bit of funding. Can you give any insight? Do the investors looks at that and say, wow, this is a great model? >> Yeah, so we raised a decent series A. One of the founders of Warby Parker is on our board now so that's really exciting. A guy called Andy and he's helping us scale. One of the reasons we took funding was helping to scale. So our infrastructure scales automatically with AWS because it's built on Lambda and API Gateway. But we as a company are struggling to scale in like finding the right employees and all of that sort of thing, so that's where we're getting some help. >> Alright, what are you hearing from people taking your courses? What new things are they asking for? How are you expanding the scope of your offerings? >> Everyone is obviously very interested in AWS, but they also want to learn other cloud-computing platforms now, especially Azure, so we are expanding the scope of our content to do Azure as well as Guru. The other problem people are having is, AWS innovates so quickly. You know, there's like a thousand updates last year. There's 19 new updates last week. So there having trouble keeping up so we run just a weekly TV show called, AWS This Week, and we basically just tell people what's new this week. And the great thing about New York Summit is there's been like five or six announcements here so I'm going to be busy on Friday, filming. >> Is there any one particular area of training that you see more people drifting toward or following toward? >> I think serverless and big data are the hot topics. Big data, by that I mean AI, machine learning. That's just exploding right now. And just serverless architectures because the future of cloud is serverless. Why pay for virtual, physical machines by the hour or by the minute and have system administrators, network administrators, database administrators when all you actually want to focus on is your code and your end customers and serverless allows you to do that. >> So what's your process then? In terms of you staying on top of it, right? Because now you have to. >> Ryan: Yeah. >> I mean, you, you're it, right? You're the point of expertise. So how do you ... I guess, remain in that kind of relationship with AWS that you're the cusp? >> So, I obviously read all the blogs. Our students, We've got 300,000 students right now and our discussion forums are very very active so if they have announced something that I've missed, the students tell me, like, we'll know within a few hours. So, that's it really. It's just forever learning, but I love learning anyway so it's fun to get paid to learn. >> John: Sure. You bet. >> Ryan, how many people have gone through the training so far? Do you know how many of them get certified after they do that? And how many are kind of repeat customers? >> We've got 300,00 have gone through the training so far. We do track our pass rates. Our pass rates vary from anywhere between, normally 80 to 90%. Not everyone will pass on the first go because the exams are tough and it's also quite stressful. Sitting these exams can be quite stressful. In terms of the number of students that actually go on to get certified, that's not something we track just yet, but we're looking to change that as well. But yeah, we have a very good pass rate. >> So how does it work? I want to learn, you know, whatever. I want to dive into AI, whatever it is. I come to you, you've got something for me there right? You've got, I don't know how many hours of work I have to do, but take us through how it really works. >> Yeah so, it's video training. Online video training. So say you want to learn DynamoDB. We have a 19 hour course on that. And we go right into the very depths of DynamoDB. So you watch the videos. we'll show you what we're doing in the labs. We'll give you all the sample code if we're using code and then you can go and do it yourself. We very much believe in, the only way to learn Cloud is by getting your hands dirty. To actually go and do it yourself. So people watch the labs, do the stuff themselves and then complete the course. If it's a certification course, then at the end what they'll do is go and book the exam and hopefully, they'll pass the exam as well. >> So Ryan, you're in there looking at all this stuff, especially things like server lists. What are you looking for, for kind of the maturation? Is there anything that do you give feedback to Amazon? The community give you feedback? I have to imagine that there's some good feedback loops there? >> Yeah, I'm lucky enough to be an AWS community hero. So we get get briefed by Amazon on things that are coming out. You know, under MDA of course. We give a lot of feedback on that. No, I think serverless is the next big revolution. I hate hype and buzz words and things like that, but the thing about serverless is that, now you don't have to worry about servers. You can just focus on your code and you don't need to worry about any of the normal administration behind it and it's like ridiculously cheap. You get a million lambda implications a month for free. That's just part of Free Tier. We actually only just came off of Lambda Free Tier a couple of months ago and we've got 300,000 students. So, it's very very very cheap so its amazing. It's driving new revolution. >> What advice would you give to someone if they were looking to start a business and using serverless as a platform? >> Yeah, definitely check out AWS of course, we build our entire business off AWS. Design, try if you can, architect everything in a serverless fashion because like I keep saying, you don't have to worry about management of operating systems, virus patching, security, any of that. AWS, they take all... They take care of all of the heavy lifting for you. >> So I know you are a big fan of Lambda, but have you looked at some of the other serverless options out there? Is there any concern around, there's open source options out there. >> Ryan: Yeah. >> How do we get compatibility and not be just locked into Amazon? >> Azure Functions looks really good. See, this thing about vendor lock-in, I mean, you've got the serverless framework as well. If you build your applications on the serverless framework, you can move between platforms quite easily. That is coming so you could build it out on AWS and then move over to Azure if you wanted. The founder of serverless frameworks is a good friend of mine. So I definitely recommended checking it out. And that would be my advice. If you are going to go serverless use the serverless framework so then you don't have to worry about vendor lock in. But at the same time, Amazon, they reduce their prices all the time. So it is a good vendor to be with. >> I just think your story is great. I think that the best "no" you ever got in your life was from AWS. And now you're giving them a big "yes". >> Yeah, absolutely, I love AWS. They're such amazing people as well. They've all become my-- through my business and people I used to work with have all become really good friends of mine as well. It's been a great journey in last two years. >> You've done well for them, they've done well for you. It's a good relationship. >> Exactly. >> Ryan, thanks for being with us. >> Thank you. >> And continued success. >> Right, thanks guys. >> Good for you. You bet, Ryan Kroonenburg. The founder of A Cloud Guru. Along with his brother, Sam, making a pretty good business out of things on the AWS platform right now. Back with more here from AWS Summit, right after this. You're watching The Cube. (fast music)

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan, it's theCUBE covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back live to Midtown Manhattan, along with Stu Miniman, I am John Walls. We're here on theCUBE and we're wrapping up our coverage here at AWS Summit. Again, kind of tough to get a feeling for just how many folks were here. But some were in that seven, eight, $9,000 range and most of them are still here I think, out on the show floor here behind us. Good keynotes this morning. Good programming throughout the day as well and then really good buzz here on the show floor. So, good day I think, for AWS Stu, and we've talked about it, it is kind of remarkable to see the number of people who turned out for a regional show. >> Yeah John, you know I've been to some shows in the Javits Center where people wander in, they get some swag, they look for a free beer and a t-shirt and then that's kind of their... These people are, you know, kind of diggin' in. I know there's a bunch of sessions been going on. The pavilion here has had all these little breakout sessions. There was one on, you know, VMware and VMware and AWS and it was, you know, not only the seats, which usually it was like oh come on in, you know, come get a prize and things like that. >> John: Right, right. >> There was five rows of people standing pressed in and asking questions like, "How do I set up "the networking on this, how does this work?" Things like this, so it's like a mini AWS re:Invent, so their big show, one we've done theCUBE at a number of years, I've been there a number of years. I commented on our intro that this is larger than the first Amazon re:Invent that I went to like four years ago. >> How about that, in that short of period of time? >> Yeah and that's one of the things about Amazon and public Cloud in general and all of these technologies, the growth and the speed of change is just amazing. It used to be we talked from a software standpoint, it was like okay, I'm tied to that Intel release of every 18 months that I'm going to click out, then it was like okay, we kind of go to a yearly cycle. Now it was more like well not only is a lot of software released, you know, continuous integration and continuous deployment CICD, which sometimes it's every six weeks, sometimes it's daily, but Amazon's releasing new features every day. We talked in the intro, oh there were three major releases and we had the guy I'm talking about, the machine learning stuff and he's like oh you mean the three announcements that we had in machine learning? And we're like oh, we only heard about one of those. Wait, you had a couple others underneath there? Oh, let's talk about the F1 compute instance and the FPGAs. There's always so much in Amazon and when you go into any environment in the little boxes that they put in there and you start peeling the onion, it's impressive. >> It is. >> And there's just depth and customers are interested in it and people are using it. You know, I was used to so much in my career where something gets announced and a year later it's like hello, is anybody using this? As opposed to at this show, a bunch of the announcements, I already talked to a bunch of people that have been in private beta, they've been testing this out, they're excited about it and because it's just so easy to get on all of these new features. >> Right, and I mean, we've seen it here, we've heard from many people here from a lot of different walks of life. You mentioned some of the past shows, AWS Public Sector. I was at that not too long ago in Washington, D.C. and you see a company that has its units very focused and very driven and doing very well and the right relationships. Buzzword, serverless, right? We heard it a lot today. Serverless applications, serverless computing. From more than one source, we heard it from several folks and so obviously this is not just a popular piece of nomenclature for the day, this is a trend, a theme that's going to be evolving and maturing over the next year or two. >> Yeah I mean everybody for the last couple years they've kind of been looking at it with their head sideways. I'm not sure that I understand it. We talked to two companies today, it was IOPipe and A Cloud Guru that their company, their IT infrastructure was all built on serverless, and they both got funding recently, so this isn't just oh yeah, some developer does some cool stuff on the side, microservices, buzz buzz, things like that. We talked to FICO is using serverless for their admin functions, certain areas they're not ready to roll it out across the board, governance compliance, things like that, I need to understand it. It is still very early, but that being said, there's a lot of usage in it. Last year it was oh, if you want to develop for the Alexa platform, the Amazon Echo type thing, that uses serverless, so we're seeing lots and lots of cases. That really is a new way of architecting the way to roll out really microservices driven applications and when we talk about the big challenge of our time, it's distributed architectures and how do I have new applications? We talked to a number of companies moving from the old way of doing my application to building new application, that's the long hole in the 10. This is not something that happens overnight, but I can start playing with it in a much smaller form factor and do it for pennies not years and millions of dollars so there is really serverless has really in many ways eclipsed kind of the container's discussion for the hot buzz in the industry. Kubernetes fits into that whole picture, but not just serverless in general, but AWS Lambda is the leader of the pack out there and you know, yet another reason why Amazon just going strong, their revenue still doing well, keeps adding to what they're doing and you don't hear many people griping when you walk around the show floor as to what they wish they had. It's a very positive experience. >> And you hear criticisms saying, "They only had 42% growth year to year." It's not what it used to be. But 42 as you know, most people would gladly be in that position. What about your thoughts about the maturation of the Cloud? You mentioned transformative and things are evolving and growing, where do you put it now? Is this second phase, next phase, late phase? Where are we in terms of what's happening and what AWS is making happen? >> So a couple years ago we know that Cloud is here to stay. There's still the joke a friend of friend of mine in the keynote. 20,000 people registered for this event and it was like well, I guess this Cloud thing might have legs, so we are still early in the overall wave of this. I've been in a number of conferences this year that we've done theCUBE on. You talk about the infrastructure companies and companies that have built on virtualization. They said, "We went through a decade "of tremendous growth with virtualization." Virtualization is still very important. Amazon builds their infrastructure not on VMWare, but they leverage virtualization technologies, but the next 10 years will be this huge wave of really that going up the uptake of the S curve so we're past really the classic crossing the chasm. We're in the early majority going to mid majority of people using it and there's just no shortage of new use cases that people can use it for. We've talked to lots of companies that start up and say, "I'm just leveraging Cloud because it's easy." THere's VCs that look at that as how to get involved and as I've just mentioned before, there's companies now that are building themselves on serverless so this is even kind of the next piece that follows these waves we are early in Cloud if you look at kind of overall ham of IT, public Cloud is still a very small piece. At Wikiban we've been talking for the last I think two years about what we really the multi Cloud environment. There's true private Cloud and there's public Cloud and how do I get that operational model that I can scale, I can build really a distributed architecture? I shift more to an operational expense rather than a capital expense, so it's flexibility, it's agility, it's speed, and it's very interesting, exciting times. There's no more exciting time to be in tech than today, maybe tomorrow, because we know the only thing constant is that the pace of change keeps increasing. >> It does increase and two big drivers of that, we heard again today, artificial intelligence, machine learning. How would you rate or how would you characterize the impotence that they're providing in terms of pushing the envelope? >> Absolutely there was some good announcements today, I don't know that there's any today that you'd say, "I'm going to look back five years from now and be like, 'Wow, I was in New York City when that was announced.'" >> John: Right, but just in general? >> But in general, let me say one of the things that I didn't hear today, I was was little bit disappointed, I mentioned it in the open, we talked to a couple of the partners here, you know the Kubernetes option. Adrian Kovrov got up on stage. He had written a blog post there was an announcement last week, no mention of where Kubernetes is going to fit in here. Definitely they're committed to it, they're making developments, but maybe something will come out in beta soon. I would expect by the time we get to the re:Invent show in November that we will have more clarity here. I was hoping to hear that more and that was something that didn't come out of Amazon, but they're embracing it. Customers are asking for it, developers, there's a ground swell on that, so they're involved with it. Lambda and serverless absolutely. Amazon is at the vanguard, they're pushing things forward. Machine learning and IoT, Amazon is at the table. It is still very early, they're driving a lot of things forward. Yeah, you know, you get enough, it's like come on, there's no BitCoin discussed today, why is that? So some of the other vendors there, but Amazon is in all the appropriate conversations. There's not any wide gaps that you'd say customers like hate these. Amazon's not in this base and I expect them to and therefore I'm going to choose another platform provider. That being said, it's not a winner-take-all, it is a multi Cloud world, most of these environments, we talked about even if I do serverless, if I architect them a certain way I can move them and make changes, Kubernetes the same way. So Amazon, one of the things that they pride themselves on is they need to keep proving to their customers every month that they are the ones that they fuse on because otherwise it is relatively easy to make a change, but they're the big dog, they got the leadership position, and it's always impressive to watch them. >> It is and you speak of impressive. re:Invent, is just what, two and a half months away, three months away, we'll be out there as well. Huge show, probably one of the largest shows by far that we attend and looking forward to that and seeing you down the road. Always a pleasure to be with you. >> Thanks so much. >> And great job as always. Stu Miniman does an outstanding job providing analysis for Wikiban, so on behalf of Stu and all the crew here at theCUBE, we thank you for joining us here at the AWS Summit in Midtown. We've been live at the Javits Center. Have a good week and we'll see you down the road here on theCUBE. (light electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Manhattan, it's the Cube, covering AWS Summit, New York City, 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> And you are watching the Cube. Along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls. We're at the Javits Center, here, Midtown Manhattan, for the AWS Summit. We're continuing our coverage here live on the Cube. We'll broadcast outlet of the silicon angle tv platform, and we're joined now by Anuj Dutia, who is Senior Manager of Product and New Business at Verizon. Anuj, it's good to see you today, sir. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> You bet, absolutely. Now, you have a partnership in the works with AWS. I know you had an announcement today, of sorts. Also, adding a little more flavor to that, I want you to tell us a little bit about that announcement, and the significance of that. >> Yeah, absolutely. We're really observing the industry's, our customers are the biggest, Fortune 500 customer's enterprises, they're moving their vote close to AWS. So, once they move their vote close to AWS, they want us to connect to their applications, our networks to connect to their applications in a seamless way. They want to make sure that the end user experience, the application experience, when the application's under AWS, is seamless. So, what we're trying to do is we're trying to make sure we instantiate the workshop appliances in AWS, so that we're able to give them internet connectivity. So, we have a service offer, which is across the platforms. You know, we have our private cloud, we have AWS, we have the end CPE devices. For our customers, they want to have hybrid environment. They want to make sure that they are able to connect with each of these business applications with the best user experience. So, that's what we are enabling them to do with this service. >> I'm wondering if you could help clarify for us, because those of us that have watched a while, I mean, I remember when Verizon bought Terremark recently, I know you're still working through some of the details, but people still come to me and say oh, you're talking to Verizon, I hear they're selling off all their data centers. So, of course, that's kind of the headlines when you dig in to what you were talking about, the hybrid solutions, lots of partners. What is the role of cloud in Verizon, and what are some of those important solutions you're putting together? >> Sure, so we have our own offering, you know, which is the hosted network services. It's an open stack, base back form that we have around the world, but we're not in the business of, we want the customers to be connected, so we're in the business of networks. So, if our customers are moving on to a public cloud, or a private cloud, or their own data centers, we want to enable them to have that internet connectivity, and make sure they're able to take advantage of the application that we're routing, as well as the transport diversity. You know, we have a product called Secure Cloud Interconnect, or Direct Connect in AWS terms, which is one of the transports that will be used their high priority applications, and internet for another one. So, basically, we want to make sure we are able to give them the advantage of the through transports, as well as enabling them to have the best experience. So, regardless of what deployment they have, to your question, we want to make sure we are their partners in enabling them to do that. >> Yeah, the open stack solution, I mean, that's really building NFV, so what you care about is delivering services to the end user, correct? >> Correct, correct. So, we do have a concept of white boxes, or genetic platforms on the CP side. So, if I'm an enterprise with 5000 stores, as an example. I want to deploy these lightweight white boxes around the country, and then haul all the traffic to my private data center, to AWS, to other cloud providers. We will be able to do that, and with this partnership, we will be able to get them closer to their applications within AWS, that's the whole plan of action. >> Yeah, all of the carriers, including Verizon, have lots of edge deployments, that's been one of the hottest topics. Does that fit in with what you're doing with Amazon? Maybe you can, you know, what does Edge mean to kind of your business unit, your customers? What's important there? >> Absolutely, absolutely. As far as Edge is concerned, right? There is a thick Edge, and there is a thin Edge. When you say a thick Edge, you want to have all the applications, network applications, routing, firewall, you name it, everything to be sitting in the Edge. If I'm a bank, I may need that, but if I'm a retailer, I may not. I may say, no, I want to have my security applications in the cloud. The cloud could be our private cloud, it could be customers' cloud, or it could be AWS. We will enable to connect those Edge devices, the thicker version, or thinner version, to each of these cloud locations, so that it's a seamless connectivity for the enterprises. So, our strength is in the virtualization, and in the network connectivity. But all focused on the network. That's our whole use case, and we want to make sure if a customer walks in to our door with these different hybrid deployments, we're able to support them without any exceptions. >> We talked a lot so far about what you do, or the goals or the mission that you have, put it on the other side of the fence, from a customer expectation, and from a customer demand. How has that changed? >> That's a good question. So, what we've seen is our customers have a lot of options. We are not in the business of telling them where their applications should reside, where their business applications should reside. Now, if, as an organization, if they've decided to move their critical applications to AWS, or have them in their private data centers, so they are coming to us, customers are coming to us and telling us, we want, what is our business goal? Our business goal is to have, when my employee tries to reach my HR application, it should be seamless. It should not matter whether I host it in my data center, yours, AWS, or on the Edge. They don't care, they want to have access to those four top applications, or 40 top applications all the time. So, we've seen customers coming in and saying, and telling us, we're not asking you where to host the business apps, we have already made a decision, we are going to host it in these four clouds. One of them definitely being AWS. And we're like, okay, we will enable you, you just tell us what kind of connectivity you guys need, where do you want to host it, and with AWS being their key data center for hosting their business applications, now we have an automated, orchestrated way. So, you have your 5000 devices, with a click of a button, we'll instantiate something on AWS for you. That way, you're able to connect to all of your business applications seamlessly. So, with the demand that, going back to your question, the demand that we're seeing is hey, we want to have a variety of deployment models, we don't want to be locked down, we don't want to spend a whole lot on our data centers, we like the AWS solution, so we're going to have our business apps hosted at AWS, but at the same time, we want to make sure everything is connected for our users, and there is no latency that they experience. Customers are still having a lot of challenges about kind of getting their arms around this whole multi cloud environment, and networking a lot of times is kind of networking security and management sit at kind of the top of the challenges there. How would you rate how we're doing as an industry, how have we moved the ball forward, and what do we still need to do, to be able to make this seamless, manageable, much easier going forward? >> It's a great question. We come across these customers all the time, right? They see a bunch of PowerPoint presentations and advertisements, in all the different forms, and they think that they think that they're able to do that all by themselves, and have the cost efficiency. The key challenge is the key know how, and connecting it with the whole end to end network, as well as applications. So, what we bring to the table is exactly that. We partner with AWS and other cloud providers, but AWS being the biggest one, we try to make sure we are, get them the fully orchestrated solution. So, our whole solution is we're enabling, in this service, right, we're enabling Cisco and Viptela solutions on AWS. So, our whole value prop with them is you place an order with Verizon, we take care of making sure you're connected to AWS, seamlessly, with the appliance of your choice, which in this case happens to be Cisco, Viptela solutions, and the reliable network from Verizon, but completely automated and orchestrated. What we've been observing is customers go down the DIY path, and that's absolutely fair, sometimes they succeed, but most often they come back and say I don't know how to make it work end to end. I'm able to do this little piece part, have done my dev opps here, so it works, but when I move my production load, I don't know what to do. And, that's the value of this partnership, that we're looking to provide that seamless experience to our customers. >> And also, we've been talking a lot about enterprise, but that market is mostly small and midsize. I mean, which one do you think sells the wind in it's sails right now? I mean, or is it apples and oranges, because they have different concerns, different levels and different options? >> That's an interesting question. They are apples and oranges, at least in my opinion, and I'll tell you why. Because the needs for the top Fortune 500, Fortune 1000 companies, is very different from a dentist's office or a lawyer's office. But, there is a middle line. The middle line is, what if I'm a coffee shop with 8000 stores? Am I on this side, or that side? Because, each of these 8000 stores are like small businesses, if you will, but as a company I'm a tier one, so I have my own needs from a corporate network standpoint. So, what we're trying to do is we're trying to make sure we take advantage of our partnership with AWS, where we are saying we're able to enable you if you are moving your production workloads anyway. But, if that's something you want to scale, then probably you've got to have a hybrid deployment and we make that happen for you. But, to your question, right? I do think they're apples and oranges, because their needs are very different. The need for the application availability for an enterprise, but a big tier one enterprise, is way higher than, say a dentist's office. If Outlook 365, Office 365 doesn't work for a dentist office for an hour, who cares? But, if it doesn't work for a big. >> Just don't let your dentist hear you say that. Be careful. >> All right. >> Everybody buy your dentist, right? >> Yeah, exactly. >> All right, Anuj, thanks for being with us. >> Thank you, thanks for having me. >> We appreciate the time. >> Thank you. >> Good luck down the road. >> Thanks >> Anuj Dutia from Verizon joining us here on the Cube. We continue live from New York City. AWS Summit. Back in a bit.

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan, it's the CUBE. Covering AWS Summit, New York City, 2017. Brought to you by Amazon web services. >> And we are live here at AWS Summit here at the Javits Center, New York City, we're midtown, Manhattan, a lot of activity going on outside, you can imagine all the buzz inside as well. Somewhere between 6, 7, 8,000 attendees, kind of tough to tell right now, but everybody's jammed inside here on the show floor and they've been here all day and they're going to stay for a while I think too. As I said, a lot of buzz going on, and good buzz too. Along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls and we're now joined by Erica Windisch who is the Co-founder and the CTO of IOpipe. Erica, thanks for being with us here on the CUBE. >> Thank you, thank you for having me. >> You have had a big day. >> Yes we have, yeah. >> It's always fun to talk about money but you did have a fairly significant announcement this morning to make. Tell us about that. >> Yeah, so this morning we announced funding, $2.5 million from several investors including NEA, Madrona, and Underscore. >> So, yeah, you don't often get to high-five everybody for a day like that. I mean that kind of validation, obviously is something that not you just take to the bank, you take it to the marketplace too. >> Yeah, absolutely. And we actually started, our first check was from Techstars so we joined Techstars here in New York City and did that last year for their summer program and it was really great and that was the first foundation that we really had, and then having that further validation from major VCs like NEA and Madrona, Underscore, you know that really was really validating for us as well as just the fact that we're building, we're hiring and we're building and having what I think is an increasingly awesome product. >> Sure, well tell us about IOpipe, for folks at home who are watching might not be familiar with your space, what you do and how you do it. >> Yeah, so we provide tools for software developers to build and manage their applications on Amazon Lambda. So, basically, it's all serverless, we're actually built on serverless as well, we monitor with IOpipe, we dogfood everything. And we are providing deeper insights into those application workloads as well as correlating that information in more useful ways. Deeper knowledge of what exactly is happening in the run times, so we're able to see the data we ingest tells us information on the processes and the containers and the virtual machines that are running your Lambda workload, so we can see things like memory leaks and we can see file descriptor leaks and displaced utilization leaks, things like that that Amazon doesn't collect or at least doesn't give you that information. So, we're looking at ways we can provide more value to users of Lambda and also extending it with plugins so we have a plugin for tracing where you can time aspects of your application as well as profiler, so you can enable a profiling plugin and you get a full flame graph. So you can see, these are all the functions and this one ran and this one ran and the stack looks like this and so you can see the full flame graph of what happened and when and full timing information. This kind of insight that nothing else really gives you. >> Yeah, Erica, every time we have a new technology we go through this kind of diffusion of innovation that goes through. Remember back, I go back thinking about when virtualization came, people, what is it, how do I use it? We saw that in containers and each wave seems to be going faster and faster so there's still plenty of people I talked to that were like, "serverless what?" You know, some new as a service, I mean I thought I knew it with SAS and everything else like that. You're digging into these environments further. Can you give us, what are some of the kind of key use cases you're seeing, what are the challenges that customers are having? What works, what doesn't work, help us unpack that some? >> So, I think there's a number of challenges that users run into today. One is the fact that it is new so some of the tools are still evolving. Operations tools, development tools are still evolving. Just this week, Amazon announced SAM local so you can do editing and debugging locally on your machine or your laptop. That wasn't available before, right? So these tools, we're very much still in a learning phase for some of the tools, but some of the things like what we're doing with IOpipe, in some ways is more traditional because we're bringing in some of the basic monitoring tools and capabilities that you would expect from other platforms. But the other side, also innovating because we're bridging that development and operations into a single tool so it's not development and operations, it's, not even just different tools for those two things, but single tools for those. So I think that's part of the solution, part of the problem, in terms of workloads, I think there's a lot of ETLs, streaming applications, very infrequent things like chron jobs, web applications, you can take flask applications or express applications and just port them directly over to Lambda with almost a lift and shift for those, right? So there's a lot of power for bringing on the web 'cause you pay per the request. You don't scale your application and build your application for the number of servers that you need to handle the requests, it scales it per request and you pay per request and that's what's powerful in both scale of operations and team and like financially, but also, yeah, I lost train of thought there, but it all scales that way, right? Like just according to the request. >> Yeah, bring us into a typical customer, I know there are no typical customers, everyone's a little bit different, but you've got the developers, you've got the operators, finance has always had, you know, there's challenges with cloud in general but serverless at least promises that it's going to be less expensive. What are those dynamics from an organizational standpoint that you see inside? >> In terms of cost? >> Not just cost, but do the developers make something and the operators are like, wait, you know, there's challenges there? Or who drives this initiative in general? Does finance come and say, has finance heard about this and said hey, I heard I could save 60-70% on my cloud if you just re-architect this on Lambda. Or is it the developers coming through and saying, oh, wow, this is great, and can do it, or are operators, who's driving the initiatives and what are some of those dynamics? >> So I see a combination of these things. Some organizations, and I don't want to say names 'cause I don't want to like, you know, they did this and that's how it is. But I get the impression that certain organizations they have a top-down approach where they're going like, everything is going to be serverless and the cost really matters. So you're going to build serverless unless you can't, right? Serverless by default, anything else as an exception. Then there's organizations where developers are really pushing for it because it simplifies their requirements, right? It's a self-service aspect, right, even if they can spit out VMs, even if they have self-service VMs, they won't have to spit out VMs, they don't have to build docker images, they don't have to look at how the operating system is configured. They write code and they deploy code. There's no other steps, right? They're not like, oh, what version of Python is on here and how do I install all the libraries and how do I, right, like with serverless you just write the code and you ship the code. Which is really, really nice. So, in a way it's like having a golden image that you can't change, and you just know you're always going to build for in every application and every organization is going to the same golden image. Which simplifies a lot of things. >> Stu and I were talking about serverless, the whole concept, because it's really not truly serverless it's just different server, or it's a different flavor of it basically. So, first off, what gave birth to that and then where do you think, with serverless computering, serverless application, so on and so forth, where's that going? >> Yeah. >> What's going to be the real value at the end of the day of that? >> So, first of all the term "serverless," I look at it as, yes there are servers, serverless is servers are not my concern as a developer, right, I am not worrying about what the server looks like or operating the servers necessarily. I care about building my application which is why we're looking at building tools that are bridging development and operations so that operations is part of your development. But I see, the direction of serverless, really interesting in a few ways. One is that it's going to be available for more use cases. So right now there's certain use cases that make sense and one of the challenges is figuring out which use cases it doesn't work for. Eventually, you're not going to have that question, potentially, right? So maybe we get to a point where you don't have to ask, the challenge isn't, is serverless good for this use case? Maybe it's good for all use cases eventually down the road, maybe. Another thing is... >> If I could just follow up on that. Some of the announcements today like AWS Glue has serverless in the background there. Seems very promising, things like machine learning, artificial intelligence, serverless, IOT where you know, I need to balance the surface area of attack there but with serverless it won't be active as much and there will be links that are a little bit more dynamic. So, lots of those new use cases seem to be built really well for serverless. What are some of the cases today that you just say, hey, don't even go serverless there. >> Oh don't go serverless, where to do that? Well, so, Lambda has an execution time window which can be limiting for some things that you might want to do. So, like, Lambda in particular may not be the best case for all video encoding tasks. Some video encoding tasks if you can time limit it can be fine. But it's not good for all video encoded tasks because it's a batch process, potentially. Serverless processes that can let's say paralyze that and say, we're going to run Lambda but we're going to say split this up into segments, for instance, you can do that, or if you do it as a stream, right? Like you pipe a video and blocks into Kinesis, right, you can make that work. But it becomes a challenge to those kinds of use cases. >> Yeah, there was the example I think in the keynote was, this high process that would have taken five years, we can do 155 seconds. >> Right, but you have to paralyze it, right? >> Stu: Exactly. >> And if you can't paralyze a task and you can't do it within five or ten minutes, you can't use Lambda for it today. But it also depends on how you define serverless, right, because if serverless is Lambda, that's one thing. But if serverless is these other SAS products as well potentially, like AWS Transcode service, well is that serverless? If it is, then there you go. There's a solution potentially for you. So there's very blurry lines sometimes around what is serverless, and we're looking at IOpipe around serverless functions. I feel the same way around cloud in general was that there's cloud compute and it kind of evolved over time and the cloud is everything like all these things are in a cloud. But originally when we're talking cloud, five years ago, ten years ago, it was all compute. That's what we were talking about. So these terms change over time, so it's hard to say what serverless will be in five years or ten years because it'll mean something different. >> Or next week, for that matter. >> Yeah. >> Erica, last question I have. $2.5 million, what's that going to drive, what should we expect to see from your company and give us any final thoughts on what you'd like to see for the maturation of the serverless technology field? >> Yeah, so we've been hiring and building out a team, we're working on improving the user experience of the product, we are adding additional plugins and enhancements to the service. We feel that we have a really good base with our 1.0 announcement, 'cause we're not just the 2.5 million, we also announced our 1.0. And the 1.0 has a really good base of functionality and we're looking at adding additional plugins and additional features that can extend the service. So we're looking at doing that with that money. And with serverless in general, I think this is really compelling, what we're going to see in the next year, because we're going to see more large enterprises and more enterprise adoption, I think. I mean I was involved early in cloud. I was involved early in docker. And this point of serverless is very much at the early days of these technologies, and I definitely see a rocket ship taking off, and I think in the next year it's going to be really interesting to kind of see it starting to orbit a little bit. >> Well, new product, new funding, and a new day for IOpipe. >> Yes. >> So congratulations on a good day and thank you for being with us here on the CUBE. >> Thank you very much. >> You bet, we'll continue here at the Javits Center we're in midtown Manhattan continuing our coverage of the AWS Summit, here on the CUBE. (futuristic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit, New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> And we are live here at the Javits Center, continuing on theCUBE, our coverage of AWS Summit 2017, here in Midtown. Starting to wind down, tail end of the day but still a lot of excitement here on the show floor behind us, as there has been all day long. Joining us now along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls, is Josh Stella, who is the CEO and Co-Founder of Fugue, a Washington DC and Frederick, Maryland based company. Josh, thanks for being with us. >> Gentlemen, thanks for having me on theCUBE. >> You bet, first time, I think, right? >> Nope, second time. >> Oh, sorry, second time. >> Yeah. >> Alright, so a CUBE vet. >> A CUBE vet, there you go. >> Alright, so for our folks, viewers at home who might not be too familiar with Fugue. >> Josh: Sure. >> Tell us a little bit about what you do and I'm always curious about the origin of the name. Where'd that, you know, where that came from. >> Sure thing, sure. So what Fugue is, is an infrastructure automation system for the Cloud. So, it builds everything you need on the Cloud. It constantly monitors and operates it. It corrects it if anything goes wrong and it gives you a full view of everything in your infrastructure. We like to say you go fast. That's why you're going to Cloud, is to be able to go fast. You need to be able to see everything and get it right. Fugue gives you all of those capabilities at a different level than anything else out there. The name actually comes from music. From a form of musical composition called a fugue. And there might be some folks in the audience who remember Hofstadter's book Godel, Esher, Bach. That was actually where the idea came from. That and there aren't many English words left that are real words and I didn't want to make something up. >> So, you could get the website for it, so it was good to go? >> Yeah, we used fugue.co so that was part of it, sure. >> It worked out for you, then. >> It worked out, yeah. >> Well, for a guy I know who's big into astronomy, I guess Cloud would be, that seems to make sense, right? That you'd be tied into that. Just in general, Cloud migration now. What we're seeing with, this massive paradigm shift, right? >> Yes. >> That's occurring right now. What's in your mind, the biggest driver, you know, of that? Why are people now seriously on the uptake? >> Sure, so when I was at AWS, most of the growth that we saw was sort of, bottom-up. We would go into a new customer and they'd say, we didn't think we were on Cloud. And then we looked and there are 130 Cloud accounts, on AWS, scattered throughout the organization. That was kind of the first motion of Clouded option. We're really now in the second wave and this wave is strategic. It's where CIOs, CEOs and CTOs are saying this is the right way to go. They do security well, it's more cost-effective. More than anything, it allows us to move fast, iterate, be disruptive ourselves. Instead of letting the other guys, who are moving fast on Cloud disrupt us. So these are the big drivers. What Fugue does, is it allows your Cloud desk, and almost any of these organizations that are in this, sort of, phase two motion. It's not all bottom up. They're starting to say, how do we really want to get our hands around this? And so, what Fugue allows you to do is let your developers go even faster than they could without it but where things like policy has code, and infrastructure has code, are just baked in from the front. So, your developers can go really quickly, iterate and the system will actually tell them when they're doing something that isn't allowed by, for example, a regulatory regime or a compliance requirement. And, once you've built those things, Fugue makes sure their always running properly. So, it's a really powerful technology for migration. >> Josh, I'm wondering if you could take us in that dynamic you just talked about because the stuff where, the developers were just playing with it, we definitely saw it, you know. My joke, when I went to an audience was like, there's two types of customers out there. Those that know their using AWS and those that don't realize that they are using AWS. >> Josh: Yeah, exactly. >> But, when you switch to the top-down, it's, how do you get buy-in? How do you get, you know, that developer and the operator, you know, all on the same page. And, even you say today, most companies say, I have a Cloud strategy, but everybody's strategy is different and there's still, kind of, the ink's drying and as, you know, most people say, strategy means it's good for today. maybe not two years from now. >> Josh: Yeah. >> But, what are you seeing in the customer base, as some of those organizational dynamics, strategy dynamics. >> Sure, so, what we're seeing are, people are confused I think, still, about where this whole thing's going. There's a lot of clarity about where it's been, what it can do for you now. That's coming into a clear focus. But, we're in this moment of, not just moment, decade of huge change in computing. And we're still probably less than halfway through this sea change. So, I'd say the strategy, what we advise people, is the strategy has to be really thinking more about the future, that is unknown. As much as the present, that's known. And that's a difficult thing to do. Our approach to that has been, and then, how do you unify the, kind of, the intentions of the executives and the developers. Well, with developers you have to give them great tools. You have to give them things they want to use. You can't impose, kind of, these old enterprising systems on them. They will find ways around it. So, with Fugue, we wrote this very elegant functional programming language where the developers have far more power to do infrastructure as code than with anything else. It's a very beautiful, elegant language. Lots of developer tooling around that. We're just coming out within the next couple of weeks, here, an open beta on a visualization system. So, as you're writing your infrastructure as code, you automatically can see a diagram of everything that will be deployed. So, developers really like those aspects of Fugue. We speak their language. I'm the CEO, I've been a developer for 30 years. From the other side of the equation though, the executive level, the leadership of the organization, they need assurance that what's being built is going to be correct. Is going to be within the bounds of what's allowed by the organization and can adapt to change as it comes down the pike. So, and this gets back to strategy. So, we have the kind of, everything being built with virtual machines and attached disks. And now, you know, containers are really a huge trend, a really great trend but it's not the end. You have things like Lambda. You have things like machine learning as services. And the application boundaries around all of those things, the ones that are there now, and where it's going in the future. And so Fugue is very much architected to grow with that. >> Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious what you're seeing from customers. It used to be, I think back to, you know, virtualization. It was, you know, IT was a cost center and how do we squeeze money out. Then it was, how can IT respond to the business? And now, you know, the leading edge customers, it's how's IT driving business? I think about machine learning, you know, IOT, a lot of the customers we've talked to, that are using serverless, it's you know, I can be more profitable from day one. I can react much faster. What are the dynamics you're seeing? Kind of the role in IT and, you know, the business? >> Yes, thanks, that's a great question. So, you know, software's eating the world and the Cloud is software, if you do it right. The use of the Cloud is software. And so, we're definitely seeing that. Where it used to be that IT was this big fixed cost center, and you were trying to just get more efficiency out of it. You know, maybe extend your recap cycles if you could get away with it, kind of. Now, it's really a disruptive offensive capability. How am I going to build the next thing that expands my market share? That goes after, other people are trying to be disruptive. So, you have to be able to go really, really fast in order to do that, yeah. >> So, one of the announcements today was the AWS migration hub. And it sounds great, I've got all of these migrations out there and it's going to help them put together but it reminds me of, kind of, we have the manager of managers. Because, there's so many services out there, you know, public Cloud, you know, it used to be like, oh Cloud's going to simplify everything. It's like, no, Cloud is not simplifying anything. We always have, kind of, the complexity. How do you help with that? How are customers grappling with the speed of change and the complexity. >> Josh: Sure. >> It is now? >> So, through automation and code. And that's the whole way through the stack. People used to think about software just being application. Then in the more recent, I'd say in the last 18 months, people have really figured out that actually, no, the configuration of the system, the infrastructure, if you will, although even that's a bit anachronistic. Has to be code, so does security. Everything needs to be turned into code so that the build process is minutes, not days or hours. So, we have a customer in financial services, for example, that uses Fugue to build their entire CICD pipeline and then integrate itself with it, so that all of their infrastructure and security policies are completely automated whenever a developer does a pull request. So, if they do a pull request, out comes an infrastructure. If that infrastructure did not meet policy, it's a build fail. So, the way you adapt to all this complexity is through automation. And it's going to get worse, not better as these services proliferate. And as the application boundaries are drawn around wider and wider classes of services. >> Yeah, and that's I guess to ask about. Is that, if I come in to the Cloud and I have X workload, you know, and it's. And all of a sudden, here comes this and here comes that. Now I can do this, now I have new capabilities. And it's growing and growing. My managing becomes a whole different animal now, right? >> Josh: Yes. >> How do I control that? How do I keep a handle on that and not get overwhelmed by the ability to do more and then people within my own company wanting to do more. >> Yeah, so what you're getting at there, I think, is that people go into this thinking the day one problem is the hard one. It's not. >> John: Mine's going to be when it becomes exponentially larger. >> Yeah, and the day two on problem is the hard one. Now I've built this thing. Is it right anymore? >> John: Right. >> Is it doing what it's supposed to do? Who owns it? >> Right, so all these things are what Fugue was built to address. We don't just build stuff on Cloud. We monitor it every 30 seconds and if anything gets out of specification we fix it. So the effect of this is, as you're building and building and building, if Fugue is happy, your infrastructure is correct. So you no longer have to worry about what's out there, it is operating as intended at the infrastructural layer. So, I think that you're exactly right. You get to these large scales and you realize, wow, I have to automate everything. Typically inside of enterprises, they're kind of hand rolling a bunch of point solutions and bags of python and bash script to try to do it. It's a really hard problem. >> So Josh, it's been a year since you came out of stealth, you know, what's been exciting? What's been challenging? What do you expect to see by the time we catch up with you a year from now? >> Yeah, sure, so what's been exciting is the amount of real traction and interest we're getting out of, like, financial services, government and health care, those kinds of markets. I'd say, it's also been exciting to get the kind of feedback that we have from our early customers, which is, they really become evangelists for us and that feels great when you give people a technology that they don't just use but they love. That's very exciting. A year from now, you're going to see a lot from us. Over the next six to nine months, in terms of product releases. We're going to be putting something out at reinvent, I can't get too much into it. That really changes some of the dynamics around things like being able to adopt Cloud. So, a lot of exciting stuff's coming up. >> It sounds like you've got a pretty interesting runway ahead of you. And you certainly have your hands full. But I think you've got a pretty good hand on it. So, congratulations on a very good year. >> Thank you. >> And we wish you all the best success down the road as well. >> Great, thanks for your time. >> You bet, Josh,thank you. Josh Stella from Fugue joining us here on theCUBE. Back with more from the Javits Center, we're at Midtown Manhattan at AWS Summit 2017.

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan it's the Cube. Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you buy Amazon Web Services. >> Hello and welcome to the Big Apple. AWS Summit kicking off here at the Javits Convention Center New York, New York. Along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls, welcome to the Cube as we continue our coverage here. Really I feel like this is ongoing, Stu, as far as what we're doing with AWS (mumbles) public sector summit. AWS from the outside in for a very long time. So tell me what you make of this. I mean regional show, we probably have four or 5,000 folks here, good turnout. What's the vibe you got, what's the feeling? >> It's really interesting 'cause we've covered a few of the regional summits but it's the first one that I've attended. I'm actually already have been starting to plan for AWS reinvent, which is the big show in November. Expecting probably around 50,000 people at that show, but I think four years ago, four and a half years ago when I went to the first (mumbles) summit in Las Vegas, it was about the size of what this show is. So Adrian Cockcroft got up on stage, said there were about 20,000 people registered. Of course registered doesn't mean that they're all here. A lot of people I know watching the live stream as well as it's free to attend so if I'm in New York City, there's just a few people in New York that care about tech probably. So maybe they'll pop in sometime for today, but in the keynote there's definitely a few thousand people. It's a good sized expo hall here. This could be a five or 6,000 person event for the size of the expo hall that they have here, and the Javits center can really hold some big activity here. Impressive at scope because Amazon and the cloud is still in early days. As Jeff (mumbles) says, there is no day two, we're always day one and what's going on. Went through a lot of announcements, a lot of momentum, a lot of revenue in this big cloud thing. >> You talk about Adrian too, we'll get to his keynote comments in a little bit. Talking about revenue growth still in the uptick year to year 42%. So still going there, but then on the other side you do se some writing going on that maybe upticks slowing down just a hair as far as cloud deployment goes. >> Yeah that's a great thing, 'cause we're all staring at the numbers and it's no longer, Amazon right now is not growing 75, 80% as opposed to the companies trying to catch up to them, like Microsoft, is growing at more of that 75 (talking over each other) >> But Amazon if you look at infrastructured service, is the largest out there. What was it, it was a 16 billion dollar run rate looking at the last 12 months looking back. Still over 40% growth rate. So yes is the growth slowing down a little bit, but that's just because they're not at a big number so it's a little tougher, but they keep adding services, they keep adding users. Some big users up on stage, some new services getting announced because the way Andy Jassy puts it, I mean everyday when you wake up, there's another three services from Amazon. So it's not like they had to say, oh geeze, can we hold something off? I go to the typical enterprise show and it's like, oh we're going to have this bundle announcements that we do. Amazon could have one of these every week somewhere and everyday could be like, here's three new services and they're kind of interesting because everyday that's kind of what they have. >> Yeah and I don't mean to paint it like the wolf is at the door, by any means, but the competitors are at the door. So how much of that factors into this space (mumbles) you pointed everybody else has this huge market share. They're not even (mumbles) they're like the elephant and the gorilla in the room, but at the same time, you do, as you're coming on, Google's still out there looking. There's another player as well. >> Well if you talk to the Amazon people, they don't care about the competitors, they care about their customers. So they focus very much on what their customers are doing. They work on really small teams. If we want to talk about a couple of the announcements today, one of the ones that, at least the community I was watching, it's AWS glue, which really helps to get ETL, which is the extract, transform, and load really a lot of the heavy lifting and undifferentiated heavy lifting that data scientists are doing. Matt Wood, who was up on the keynote said 75% of their time is done on this kind of stuff, and here's something that can greatly reduce it. Few people in the Twitter stream were talking about they've used the beta of it. They're really excited. It was one that didn't sound all that exciting, but once you get into it it's like, oh wow, game changer. This is going to free up so much time. Really accelerate that speed of what I'm doing. Adrian Cockcroft talked about speed and flight freeing me from some of the early constraints. I'm an infrastructure guy by background and everything was like, and I've got that boat anchor stuff that I need to move along and the refresh cycles, and what do I have budget for today? And now I can spin things up so much faster. They give an example of, oh I'm going to do this on Hive and it's going to take me five years to do it as opposed to if I do it in the nice AWS service it takes 155 seconds. We've had lots of examples like this. One of the earliest customers I remember talking to over four years ago, Cycle Computing was like, we would build the super computer and it would have taken us two years and millions of dollars to build, and instead we did the entire project in two months and it cost us $10,000. So those are the kind of transformational things that we expect to hear from Amazon. Lots of customers, but getting into the nuance of it's a lot of building new service. Hulu got on stage and it wasn't that, they didn't say we've killed all of our data centers and everything that you do under Hulu is now under AWS. They said, we wanted to do live TV and live TV is very different from what we had built for in our infrastructure, and the streaming services that Amazon had, and the reach, and the CDN, and everything that they can do there makes it so that we could do this much faster and integrate what we were doing before with the live TV. Put those things together, transformational, expand their business model, and helps move forward Hulu so as they're not just a media company, they're a technology company and Amazon and Amazon support as a partner helps them with that transformation. >> So they're changing their mission obviously, and then technologically they have the help to do that. Part of the migration of AWS migration, we talked about that as well, one of those new services that they rolled out today. I think the quote was migration is a journey and we're going to make it a little simpler right now. >> Yeah we've been hearing for the last couple of years the database. So you know whether I've got Oracle databases, whether it was running SQL before. I want to migrate them, and with Amazon now, I have so many different migration tools that this migration hub now is going to allow me to track all of my migrations across AWS. So this is not for the company that's saying, oh yeah I'm tinkering with some stuff and I'm doing some test dev, but the enterprise that has thousands of applications or lots of locations and lots of people, they now need managers of managers to watch this and some partners involved to help with a lot of these services, but really sprawling all of the services that Amazon have every time they put up one of those eye charts with just all of these different boxes. Every one of them, when you tend to dig in it's like, oh machine learning was a category before and now there's dozens of things inside it. You keep drilling down, I feel like it's that Christopher Nolan movie, Inception. We keep going levels deep as to kind of figure it out. We need to move at cloud time, which is really fast as opposed to kind of the old enterprise time. >> We hit on machine learning. We saw a lot of examples that cut across a pretty diverse set of brands and sectors, and really the democratization of machine learning more or less. At least that was the takeaway I got from it. >> And absolutely. When you mention the competition, this is where Google has a strong position in machine learning. Amazon and Microsoft also pushing there. So it is still early days in machine learning and while Amazon has an undisputed lead in overall cloud, machine learning is one of those areas where everybody's starting from kind of the starting point and Amazon's brought in a lot of really good people. They've got a lot of people working on teams and building out new services. The one that was announced at the end of the keynote is Amazon Macie, which is really around my sensitive data in a global context using machine learning to understand when something's being used when it shouldn't and things like that. I was buying my family some subway tickets and you could only buy two metro cards with one credit card because even if I put in all the data, it was like, no we're only going to let you buy two because if somebody got your credit card they could probably get that and do that. So that's the kind of thing that you're trying to act fast with data no matter where you are because malicious people and hackers, data is the new oil, as we said. It's something that we need to watch and be able to manage even better. So Amazon keeps adding tools and services to allow us to use our data, protect our data, and harness the value of data. I've really said, data is the new flywheel for technology going forward. Amazon for years talked about the flywheels of customers. They add new services, more customers come on board that drives new services and now data is really that next flywheel that's going to drive that next bunch of years of innovation to come. >> You've talked a lot about announcements that we just heard about in the keynote. Big announcement fairly recently about the cloud data computing foundation. So all of the sudden they, I'd say not giving the Heisman, if you will, the Kubernetes, but maybe not embracing it, right? Fair enough to say. Different story now. All of the sudden they're platinum level on the board. They have a voice on how Kubernetes is going to be rolled out going forward, or I guess maybe how Kubernetes is going to be working with AWS going forward. >> And my comment, I gave a quote to SiliconANGLE. I'm on the analyst side of the media. This side had written an article and I said, it's a good step. I saw a great headline that was like, Amazon gives $350,000. They're at least contributing with the financial piece, but when you dig in and read, there was a medium blog post written by Adrian Cockcroft. He didn't touch on it at all in the keynote this morning. Which I was a little surprised about, but what he said is, we're contributing, we're greatly involved, and there's all of these things that are happening in the CNCF, but Amazon has not said, and here is our service to enable Kubernetes as a first class citizen in there. They have the AWS container service, which is ACS which doesn't use Kubernetes. Until this recent news, I could layer Kubernetes on top and there are a lot of offerings to do that. What I'd like to be able to hear is, what service is really Amazon going to offer with that. My expectation not knowing any concrete details is by the time we get to the big show in November, they will have that baked out war, probably have some announcements there. Hoping at this show to be able to talk to some people to really find out what's happening inside really that Kubernetes piece, 'cause that helps not only with really migrations. If I'm built with Kubernetes, it's built with containers. Containers are also the underlying component when I'm doing things like serverless, AWS Lambda. So if I can use Kubernetes, I can build one way and use multiple environments. Whether that be public cloud or private clouds. So how much will Amazon embrace that, how much will they use this. as well we're enabling Kubernetes so if you've got a Kubernetes solution, you can now get into another migration service to Amazon or will they open up a little bit more? We've really been watching to see as Amazon builds out their hybrid cloud offering. Which is how do they get into the customer's data center because we've seen that maturation of public cloud only, everything into the public cloud to now Lambda starts to reach out a little bit with the green grass, they've got their snow balls, they've got the partnership with VMware, which we expect to hear lots more about at VMworld at the end of this month. They've got partnerships with Redhat and a whole lot of other companies that they're working at to really expanding how they get all of these wonderful Amazon services that are in the public cloud. How do they reach into the customer's data centers themselves and start leveraging those services? All of those free services of data that are getting added. Lots of companies would want to get access to them. >> Well full lineup of guests, as always. Great lineup of guests, but before we head out, you said you're with Wikibon, you do great analyst work there and you've got that inquiring mind. You're a curious guy. What are you curious about today? What do you kind of want to walk away from here tonight learning a little bit more about? >> So as I mentioned, the whole Kubernetes story absolutely is one that we want to hear about. Going to talk to a lot of the partners. So we've seen a lot of the analytics machine learning type solutions really getting to the public (mumbles) so it's good to get a pulse of really this ecosystem because while Amazon is, we've said it's not only the elephant in the room, Dave Alante, the chief analyst at Wikibon said, they're the cheetah, they move rally fast, they're really nimble. Amazon, not the easiest always to partner with. How's the room feel, how are the customers, how are the partners, how much are they really in on AWS, how many of them are multi cloud and I'm using Google for some of the data solutions and Microsoft apps really have me involved. So Amazon loves to say people that are all in. We had one of the speakers that talked, Zocdoc, which one that allows me to set appointments with doctors much faster using technology. Analytics say rather than 24 days you could do 24 hours. They went from no AWS to fully 100% in on AWS in less than 12 months. So those are really impressive ones. Obviously it's a technology center company but you see large companies. FICO was the other one up on stage. Actually hopping to have FICO on the program today. They are, what was it, over a 60 year old company so obviously they have a lot of legacy, and how AWS fits into their environment. I actually interviewed someone from FICO a couple of years ago at an OpenStack show talking about their embrace of containers and containers allows them to get into public cloud a little bit easier. So I'd love to kind of dig into those pieces. What's the post of the customers, what's the post of the partner ecosystem, and are there chinks in the armor? You mentioned the competitive piece there. Usually when you come to an Amazon show, it's all Amazon all the time. The number one gripe usually is it's kind of pricing, and Amazon's made some moves. We did a bunch of interviews the week of the Google Next event talking about Google cloud and there was a lot of kind of small medium business that said Google was priced better, Google has a clear advantage (mumbles) I'm going away from Amazon. The week after the show, Amazon changed their pricing, talked to some of the same people and they're like, yeah Amazon leveled the playing field. So Amazon listens and moves very fast. So if they're not the first to create an offering, they will spin something up very fast. They can readjust their security, their pricing to make sure that they are listening to their customers and meeting them not necessarily in response to competitors, but getting what the customers need and therefore if the customers are griping a little bit about something that they see that's interesting, or a pain point that they've had. Like we've talked about the AWS Glue wasn't something that a competitor had. It was that this is a pain point that they saw a lot of time is on it, and they are looking to take that pain out. One of the line that always gets poked about Amazon is they say your margin is our opportunity and your pain as a customer is our opportunity too. So Amazon always listening. >> All right, a lot on the plate here this day we have for you at AWS Summit. We'll be back with much more as we continue here on the Cube and AWS Summit 2017 from New York City. (upbeat techno music)

>> Narrator: Live from Manhattan, it's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit New York City 2017, brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> And welcome back to New York, here. AWS Summit, theCUBE continue our coverage of what's happening here in the Big Apple. I'm John Walls along with Stu Miniman, and what this is is maybe not the most prolific CUBE guest of all time, but he's in the hall of fame. He really is a CUBE MVP for sure. It's good to have David Richards with us, the president, chairman, CEO of WANdisco. Good to see you, sir. >> It's a pleasure to be back again. It feels like home. >> It is like home. We need to get you your own microphone, I think, you know? >> David: I know it. I need my name on the back of the seat or something. >> This isn't quite a home game for you. All right, so you've got an office in Sheffield, England. >> David: Yeah. >> You've got an office out in the valley, Silicon Valley. We got ya right in the middle, I think. >> David: Yeah. >> Almost, don't we? So-- >> Exactly. >> We kind of split the difference for you this one. >> I always tell people I'm recolonizing the United States. I've been here for about 20 years. I can change the accent. >> Right. >> I'll get you all, eventually. >> All right, well, another year or two, we'll see how that works for ya. Big, big, I guess six, seven months for you, right? As far as some acquisitions you've done, some vice partnerships and arrangements you've done. >> Yes, as a business, we've really progressed well in the first half of the year. I've got to be a little bit careful. We've got results coming out September the sixth in London, but we did do a pre-announcement of a business update. We signed a record big data cloud contract with a very large bank for over four million dollars. That was our largest ever contract win. We signed a major retailer who we can't name, obviously, which is another sort of cloud ObjectStore on premises. A big data win, and interestingly, we stopped burning cash and investors really like this kind of perfect storm of, 175%, 173% growth in our cloud big data revenue, booking, sorry, combined with a flat cost-base, which meant, first half of last year, burning five point four million dollars down to virtually zero, just $600,000 in the first half. So, investors really like that. We really like that, and it demonstrates that perfect storm of flat cost-base and growing sales. >> David, I'm curious, does working with Amazon, and your customers being on Amazon, does the speed and agility and everything like that contribute to that profitability? >> Well, Amazon kind of changes the game for all vendors, right? Because nobody, it used to be this sort of big four, five, six, whatever it is these days, consulting companies that had to implement ERP systems and all those complex applications. I don't necessarily think they're the people, they're not the go-to people anymore for cloud. So, it's down to uniqueness of technology. Amazon have got such a wide array, we were talking earlier about some of their announcements out today as they continue to go up the stack with applications and so on. So, it does lend itself very well to small vendors with sticky, unique intellectual property and unique products and services that are going to really thrive in this kind of cloud environment. So, we've really enjoyed working with Amazon, but we're also working with the other cloud vendors, as well, and I have to say, when we first saw the Snowmobile and the Snowball, well, actually, the Snowmobile, drive out on stage in New York, was it 12, 18 months ago? It's dog years, so everything goes seven times faster. >> John: Right, right, right. >> I was laughing. I was like, "How on Earth can you possibly use a truck to move data?" But a customer came to us, a prospect came to us the other day, he wanted to move a hundred petabytes of data. Now, if you're going to use the public internet to do that, that's going to take a hell of a long time. So, this idea of a mix between physical and digital data movement I think is, when moving to cloud, is actually fascinating. I think it's a really fascinating subject area. One that customers are definitely going to use. >> Yeah, you've got a great vantage point looking at customers' migrations. >> David: Yeah. >> It was actually something big in the keynote talking about, there are so many migrations out there that Amazon released an AWS Migration Hubs. So, obviously, physics is always a challenge, my legacy mindset. Customers, we heard a customer up onstage and it's usually not lift and shift maybe for the private cloud, but for public cloud, I usually, I need to rewrite, I need to do micro-services. What is the friction for customers, and how are you and Amazon and the other clouds helping customers work through those challenges? >> OK, so, just to take a step back and think about the problems that happen at hyper-scale data movement. So, small-scale data, gigabyte-scale data, the stuff that you typically see in a relational database, they're not particularly big problems. It's kind of minimal outage, press pause, move data, make it consistent, and you're done. You can have a sort of, a small outage, maybe 15 minutes or even a day to move data, but when it gets to hyper-scale, when it gets to petabyte-scale, multi-terabyte-scale data moves, that's when you have a problem, and that's really the problem that we solve. So, the idea that you can move data that's moving and changing without an interruption to service from on-premise to cloud and support a hybrid cloud topology for an elongated period of time is fascinating. I was listening at an investor conference to the CEO of VMware who was talking about, we're going to be in a situation of hybrid cloud for the next 20, 25 years because, overnight, not everybody can just repurpose every single application that they're running on-premise, whether it's in the main frame application, or a relational data application, or wherever it is in the OP application, and repurpose that in cloud overnight. So, we're going to have to gradually move and migrate those applications over. So, it's highly likely we're going to be in a hybrid cloud environment for the foreseeable future, and that's actually fantastic news for us. We're moving, as I said, at scale companies into cloud with transactional data, and nobody else can touch us in terms of the uniqueness of the IP, which is fantastic news for us. >> In terms of just big data in general, Stu has one use for it, I have a different use for it. It's going to live in a lot of different places. How are you responding to different needs within your clients and trying to make them more effective, make them more efficient? And yet, when you're dealing with more and more data, that's a big storm to handle. >> That's a great question. I went to speak a couple of months ago to a new customer of ours who is a major healthcare provider on the east coast, and I kind of said to him, "OK, you've had this deep cluster for the past three years. Why are you calling us? Why now?" Which is the question that I always ask our customers. Why? What changed? Why are you doing this right now?" And maybe for the past three years they've been putting legal data into the system. That's data, but who cares if you can't get access to it? We can move to telephone. We can move to e-mails. We can go into an archive, into a paper archive even, to find it, but the why now is that they're now putting patient record data, patient information with regulated SLA's into this system, and that really is our sweet spot. As you get to, remember that investment thesis, small-scale gigabyte outage is small outage, when you get into petabyte, exabyte-scale, when you've got data sets that are a thousand, a million times greater, it's linear to the quantum of data. That outage becomes a thousand or a million times greater. So, that's kind of intolerable. So, we love it when strategic applications, regardless of what the use case is, we could all have different, it might be patient data, it might be retail information, it might be banking data, it might be customer retention information, when those strategic applications move onto this hyper-scale infrastructure, you have to support RTO and RTP, and that's what we do. >> And is a byte a byte a byte? You have these thousands of needles in haystacks, right? How do you assign value to one as opposed to another? >> So, this is another great question and one that investors kind of ask me a lot. So, we used to model our business from kind of the ground up. So, we take the classic enterprise sales team, you have a sales and marketing organization that's quite large, you would multiply that by their quota and then multiply it by 66% because that's how many of them are going to be successful in selling product. Well, we completely threw that away when we launched WANdisco Fusion, our new technology, early 2016. Then, we moved to a channel-based approach. So, we have IBM, we have an OAM, 5,000 quarter-carrying enterprise sales guys at IBM selling our products. That was a fantastic deal for us. We signed it in April 2016, and they've done the first half of this year, and made at least six million dollars in sales that we have also announced, and then, we've got strategic partnerships with Amazon, with Microsoft, with Google, and we model our business by those channels. So, we're not looking for needles in haystacks. We don't, we could never hire another, I mean, if we had to come into the market and say, "We need to go and hire 5,000 enterprise sales guys," we'd have to be raising, doing fund-raisers like Uber or something. We'd just be untenable. We couldn't do it. So, we have a product that lends itself very well to a channel-based approach, and that's working very nicely for us. So, we're not looking for, we're just looking for haystacks. Somebody else can go and find the needles. >> John: Find me and you, right? >> Right. >> David, how are your customers managing the pace of change these days? We've said Amazon is an example. It's like everyday there's three new services coming out. Are they excited? Are they completely overwhelmed? What do you see these days? >> So, I think it's classic sort of products and option lifecycle stuff. The sort of technical enthusiasts, they love all this change. The early-stage companies that are implementing this new cloud-based technology, ObjectStore technology and so on, they're managing very well. It's the later-stage companies you might go to and say, "ObjectStore," and they'll go, "What's ObjectStore? We're just getting our head around Hadoop, and Hive, and Pig, and all this other stuff that you were talking about three years ago," and sales guys go in there now and say, "Oh, no, no, no, don't worry about Hadoop. Nobody's going to run Hadoop in the cloud." It's like, "Well, that's what you told me three years ago." So, I think the market's certainly divided. I think you're going to see, as we move up products and option lifecycle, you're going to see lots and lots and lots of interesting moves happen. The companies that seem to be owning cloud, I think Alibaba is coming up really fast. We're seeing them doing some interesting things. Obviously, they've got dominoes in the Chinese market. Amazon First-Mover, Microsoft's futures dependent on cloud. So, they all have their different spin and different take on applications that they're going to run in cloud. I think there is, I think it's a bit like the cellphone industry. There's lot and lots of different plans, lots and lots of different confusing nomenclature, but that's going to settle out in the next couple of years, but there's unquestionably, if you look at the audience here today, unquestionably large-scale movement of applications and data to cloud. >> Well, we appreciate the time, as always. Great to see you. Another notch in your CUBE belt. (laughing) So, congratulations for that, and maybe you can settle in to New York for a day or two. You said your travels have had you flip-floppin' back and forth between England and here. So, maybe you can settle in for a day or two. >> Yeah, I need to replicate myself. I need to put myself in at least two different places at the same time. >> Live data replication right here. (laughing) All right, David, thanks for bein' with us. David Richards. >> Thank you. Thanks guys. >> Back with more here on theCUBE, we continue our coverage of AWS Summit from New York City right after this break. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan, it's theCUBE! Covering AWS Summit, New York City, 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> And welcome back here on theCUBE, continuing our coverage of AWS Summit here, 2017. We're at the Javitz Center. Hustlin', bustlin' midtown New York. A lot of things happening here in Manhattan, one of those things happening is Stu Mennamen. Stu, you're always happening. >> Thank you John. >> Are you curious about your credit score, by the way? Do you have any inclination or any kind of curiosity about that? >> John, I'm happy with my credit score, I don't think I need any more credit, is the thing I think we're talking about. >> Well just in case, we have with us the CIO of FICO to join us, Claus Moldt, Claus, good to see ya. >> Thank you very much, good to be here. >> Yeah, we'll get to the credit scores later, cuz we do want to touch base on that. >> We do want to check up on that. >> Nice job on the keynote stage. >> Thank you. >> You talked about a lot of things, you had processing, planning, automation, managing, microservices, a lot of, for folks at home who weren't privy to the presentation, just kind of sum it up a little bit for me, if you would, the message you were trying to get across this morning. >> Very high level. We are a 61-year-old company, we built a ton of software which we primarily have delivered on-prem. And it was about four years ago, that's when we started to go to our private cloud and develop our solutions on the private cloud. But it was mostly done in a lift-and-shift fashion. We took the solutions, implemented in our data centers, optimized it a little bit so we could do the shared services for the cloud, et cetera. But as we saw our customers starting to go to the public cloud, a lot of financial institutions, now it's more secure to run and have your data in the public cloud, we have auditor compliance associated with the public cloud, so we obviously wanted to go to the public cloud so we could meet our customers there. So that was a very, very big message today. By going to the public cloud, obviously we reap the benefits of what the public cloud has to offer. We can lower our cost, we still had to rewrite a lot of our applications to take full advantage of the services that AWS could provide, and that means that our new applications, to be able to scale up and scale down, you also build the images that we deploy on AWS so we can deploy them at a much more rapid pace. So we can enable scale for our customers, setting the solutions up in days and not weeks or months, like we used to, so that's another huge benefit. And we talked about all the regions that AWS provides. 16 regions around the globe. We want to grow with our customer base, and we don't want to build data centers around the globe. There's absolutely no need to, no value added in doing so. So we go where AWS goes, and AWS keeps expanding their regions, and we can deploy our software, now, at a rapid pace, again, in the various regions. And then finally, what I said, which is very important, that's about security and compliance. Security aspects, we've gotten a significant amount of help, so we build our services in a very secure fashion, but a lot of the serv6ices that now AWS provides is already pre-audited, and hence, compliant, such as PCI, et cetera, is inherited as part of these services. So our solution, we use the extension of the services that AWS provides, and that, of course, enables us to be able to go through the audit process at a much more rapid pace. So as you can hear, a significant amount of benefits moving to the public cloud. >> Claus, 61-year-old company, you know, obviously lots of legacy, probably lots of applications, where are you with your application portfolio? How much do you still own on-prem versus public cloud, and how do you make those kinds of decision points? >> Yeah, we already had a pretty significant amount of our install base still on the private cloud, as well as on-prem, right, the majority is still on-prem. Having said that, more and more of our customers have asked, How can we be smarter, so we don't have to maintain all the upgrades, all the security, et cetera, how can you enable us to move faster? So what we are seeing is that our customers are asking us to move to the cloud. And the cloud for them probably doesn't always mean the public cloud or the private cloud, they just want somebody else to manage their infrastructure. Having said that, a lot of them, as I said, have started to experiment with the public cloud. And that means that they're learning more and more about AWS and how to operate there, and they're asking us to go there. So I would say, we're still early in our journey. I would say there's a high demand for us to deliver our services to the cloud. And delivering to the private cloud, we probably just can't accelerate and do it fast enough for the customers who want to migrate, hence the reason for why we're going to an already-API-enabled infrastructure, to deal with these services. >> Obviously, Amazon has a lot of data services, you need to worry about your governance and compliance, I got a note from the community, actually, wondering if you've had the chance to look at Amazon Glue? You know, things like ETL, how much of a burden is that for you, is that offering something that's compelling? How do you really look at that space? >> Yeah, so obviously, as part of our services, we use ETL service, we developed our own ETL service, and we do that specifically to our products. Having said that, we look at every single service that AWS brings to the table, and we looked at Glue. Glue may not deliver exactly what we need to do at this point in time, but we think that, as Glue evolves, we're likely going to use the services. We rather would not develop and maintain those services ourselves, no good reason. So if all the criteria for the next-generation services on AWS is met, and it's an easy shift, I mean, it's a no-brainer for us to use those features, right? >> But how long have you been the CIO of FICO? >> I joined about 18 months ago. I had my own company before, ran the infrastructure for Salesforce for around seven years, and then ran the infrastructure for eBay for around four years. So I grew up in the cloud world. (laughing) >> So it sets me up, you know, one of the questions we've all been looking at for the last decade, what does cloud mean for the role of the CIO? >> Yeah, well, "cloud" means a lot of things for me, right? It definitely means that I focus on evolving the business. Focus on the business value I can bring to the table. Not focus on, really, building infrastructure, which doesn't really add any value to our day-to-day. It did, once, one time, where a lot of the feature set or security aspects or deployment aspects was not where they needed to be in the cloud. The services now that AWS provides gives up the ability to use those services and rewrite our stack, so I don't have to worry about our capex, et cetera, we shift it all to OPEX, and we scale it as we see fits with our customers. We've got faster deployments, faster ways for innovation, utilizing all the new services that's being deployed. And that, to me, is 6truly a business benefit. I don't want to run data service, it doesn't add a significant amount of value. >> I did an interview with FICO a couple of years ago where it was early in looking at container services. Bring us up to speed, where do containers fit into your environment, what do you look to Amazon for that environment, you're playing with server lists at all yet? >> Yeah, obviously we experiment with all of the new functionality that's being brought to the table. We have done quite a bit on the docker fronts, we are evaluating the Kubernetes, we're excited that that is the direction that AWS is going, we would like to see some of the things move a little faster but that's always the case -- >> That was the news last week, you know, we're hoping to get Adrian on because we're supporting CNC and Kubernetes how, when? You know! (laughs) >> Exactly, exactly.6 But of course we're experimenting, and the moment that it's there and available for us, I'm fairly certain that we'll head down that route, right, it's nice packaging, it's an easy deployment and easy update. You also talked about Serverless. Serverless is a big thing for us. We mostly use it for admin functions, to kick things off, to enable the auto-scaling, et cetera. We don't really run the critical transactions as a part of Serverless, as you can imagine, because we operate largely regulated industries, so we have to have significant logging around what we do. But for a lot of the admin functions, we actually already use Serverless as part of our platform on AWS. >> How, you've been on the job since April last year, you walk in at this very transformative time, in FICO. And the role of the CIO in general was at a transformative time too, because you have a lot more options. So scale all that into terms of speed and how quickly you have to make decisions, how your role changes now, because the capabilities that you have at your disposal and the options that you have to decide between. >> Yeah, you know the interesting part of this is, and we talked about it with some of the other speakers backstage, we've seen the move before, right? On Salesforce, we build our own infrastructure, et cetera, but we used AWS as well for a lot of our development. So it's not like it's so new anymore. AWS, even, is not a young company anymore, it actually is a proven company, you heard it, right, a million users, et cetera. So for us it's pretty easy to go with proven technology. To learn where others have been, right. We stand on the shoulders of giants. We have a lot of companies that already have done, and moved to the cloud and run successfully in the cloud. I think, actually, the financial and insurance industry is some of the folks that's late to the game, if you saw me, because they have not been used to running in public clouds. So that mindset is something that you have to bring to the table, and we have to ensure that we educate all of our folks that's been used to on-prem, that has been used to operating in a certain world and still runs COBOL systems on mainframes. Of what it means to move to the clouds. And that's a big transformation, to change that mindset. And operate, also, in an agile way. We have to change the way that we operate, the way that we plan, the way that we deliver, so that it's all coordinated across multiple product lines and planned out and delivered in an agile fashion so we can sync our product and have the products interact with each other. And that delivery cycle and the way that we package things has to be thought of very differently. So for that we actually created a series of micro-learning within the company, where we just recorded five minutes of our CEO, five minutes of some of the engineering, the packaging, so everybody could get up to speed at a very fast pace of what it really means. And then we do deep-dive curriculums that are specific to your role within the company. >> Claus, what's on your list of what you're looking for from Amazon and your other vendors out there, to make your life easier? It sounded like Glue sounded interesting but doesn't fit exactly the way you do it, Kubernetes, you're keeping an eye on, what else is out there? >> Yeah, obviously we want to see reference architectures. We want to see and learn from what people have done before. In some cases we will be first to market with certain things but we're looking to get that jumpstart in general, right. We want to leapfrog the way that we deliver our stuff, we want to make sure that we can do faster, bigger, better, smarter, and that means that we have to test and validate a ton of technologies out there. If there's somebody that's already gone down the routes that we really can have a pens-down kind of discussion with to understand what's actually going on, that helps us. That helps us understand what's been done, what the capabilities are, et cetera. And that we can utilize in how we deliver our service to our customers. So when you think about it, it's less than 12 months ago that we started the AWS journey. We now have both MIFI scores on AWS, we have marketing services, and we're just about to release a series of our solutions on AWS for the financial services, so it's fast, it's going fast. And we have to understand all the new technologies. >> I feel like I've got whiplash going on right now because, you've covered a lot of ground in a very short period of time! >> Yeah, well as I said, we're fortunate enough to have folks that understand clouds, and that helps, and this is really a big team effort, right? All the way from engineering, our CEO, our CTO, sales has to understand how to sell the platform, rather than sell solutions. So there's a lot of education that has to go on, and I think that's actually key, to ensure that you bring the whole company with you, you know. It doesn't matter if you have one or two or five people that can run really fast, because they'll turn around and find out that nobody's running with them. So we have to make sure that we bring the whole company with us as we implement these solutions. And explain what it is! What are the benefits, why, how does it work? And we put a significant amount of effort into that in our company. >> Well, can we work on this FICO credit thing off-camera? How about that, off-camera? >> Yeah, good luck with that! (all laughing) >> Claus, thanks for being with us, we appreciate your time and again, nicely done this morning on the keynote stage. Claus Moldt, CIO of FICO joining us here on the Cube, we continue our coverage from the AWS Summit from New York, right after this!

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan It's theCUBE! Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> And welcome back here to New York. We're at the Javits Center here in midtown Manhattan for AWS Summit 2017. Along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls. Glad to have you here on theCUBE we continue our coverage here from New York City. Well, if you're making that move to the cloud these days, you're thinking about privacy, you're thinking about security, you're thinking about compliance. Big questions, and maybe some big problems that Bill Shin can answer for you. He is the Principal Security Architect at AWS, and Bill, thanks for being with us. >> Thanks for giving me the time. >> Hey CUBE rookie, right? This is- >> This is my first time. >> Your maiden voyage. >> First time for everything. >> Glad to have you, yeah. So I just hit on some of the high points, these are big, big questions for a lot of folks I would say. Just in general, before we jump in, how do you go about walking people into the water a little bit, and getting them thinking, get their arms around these topics? >> Absolutely. It's still among the first conversations we have with customers, it's our top priority at AWS, the security, and customers are concerned about their data security, regardless of where that data is. Once they move it into the cloud it's a real opportunity to be more secure, it's an opportunity to think about how they're doing security, and adapt and be a little faster. So we have a really prescriptive methodology for helping customers understand how to do a clouded option, and improve their security at the same time. We have a framework called the Well-Architected Framework, and there's a security pillar in that framework, it's built around five key areas. Identity access management, which is really what you should be thinking about first, because authorization is everything. Everything is code, everything is in API, so it all has to be authorized properly. Then we move into detective controls and talk about visibility and control, turning on CloudTrail, getting logging set up. All the detective controls so that before you even move a workload into the cloud, you know exactly what's happening, right? And then we move into infrastructure security, which includes your network trust boundaries, zone definition, things like firewall rules, load balancers, segmentation, as well as system security. Hardening and configuration state of all the resources in their account. Then we move on to data protection as we walk customers through this adoption journey. Things like encryption, backup, recovery, access control on data. And then finally incident response. We want to make sure that they have a really good, solid plan for incident response as they begin to move more and more of their business into the cloud. So to help them wade through the waters we bring it up. The CSO is a key partner in a clouded option, organizations need to make sure security is in lockstep with engineering as they move to the cloud. So we want to help with that. We also have the Cloud Adoption Framework, and there's a security perspective in that framework. Methodology for really treating security more like engineering these days. So you have Dev Ops and you have Dev Sec Ops. Security needs to have a backlog, they need to have sprints, they need to have user stories. It's very similar to how engineering would do it. In that way their partnering together as they move workloads into the cloud. >> Amazon's releasing so many new features, it's tough for a lot of us to keep up. Andy Jassey last year said, "Every day when you wake up, there's at least three new announcements coming out." So it's a new day, there are a number of announcements in your space, maybe bring us up to speed as to what we missed if you just woke up on the West Coast. >> Sure, sure. Customers love the pace of innovation, especially security organizations, they really like the fact that when we innovate on something, it means they might not have to put as much resources on that particular security opportunity or security concern. They can focus more on their code quality, more on engineering principles, things like that. So today, we happily announced Amazon Macie, love it, it performs data classification on your S3 objects. It provides user activity monitoring for who's accessing that data. It uses a lot of our machine learning algorithms under the hood to determine what is normal access behavior for that data. It has a very differentiated classification engine. So it does things like topic modeling, regular expressions, and a variety of other things to really identify that data. People were storing trillions of objects in S3, and they really want to know what their data is, whether it's important to them. Certainly customer's data is the most important thing, so being able to classify that data, perform user analytics on it, and then be able to alert and alarm on inappropriate activities. So take a look at Macie, it's really going make a big difference for customers who want to know that their data is secure in S3. >> Actually I got a question from the community looking at Macie came out, we've got a lot of questions about JDPR coming out. >> Bill: Okay sure, yeah. >> So Macie, or the underlying tech, can that be- >> Bill: Absolutely a great tool. We think the US is the greatest place to be to perform JDPR compliance. You really got to know your data, you have to know if you're moving data by European citizens around, you really have to understand that data. I think Macie will be a big part of a lot of customer strategy on JDPR compliance. To finish your question, we've announced quite a few things today, so Macie's one of them. We announced the next iteration of Cloud HSM, so it's cheaper, more automated, deals more with the clustering that you don't have to do. Deeper integration with things like CloudTrail. Customers really wanted a bit more control and integration with the services that what the previous iteration was, so we've offered that. We announced EFS volume encryption too, so EFS, or Elastic File System encryption at rest. It natively integrates with the key management system the same way that the many of our services do when you're storing data. We announced some config rules today to help customers better understand the access policies on their S3 buckets. So yeah, good stuff. >> John: Busy day, >> Busy day. >> I mean just from a security standpoint, when you are working with a new client, do you ever uncover, or do they discover things about themselves that need to be addressed? >> Bill: Yeah. I think the number one thing, and it's true for many organizations when they move to the cloud, is they want that agility, right? And when we talk to security organizations, one of the top things we advise them on is how to move faster. As much as we're having great conversations about WAF and Shield, the Web Application Firewall, and Shield, our D-DOS solution, Inspector, which performs configuration assessments, all the security services that we've launched, we're also having pretty deep conversations with security organizations these days about CodeStar, CodePipeline, CodeDeploy, and then DevOps tool chains, because security can get that fast engineering principles down, and their just as responsive. It also puts security in the hands of engineers and developers, you know that's the kind of conversations we're having. They discover that they kind of need to get a little closer to how development does their business. You know, talking in the same vocabulary as engineering and development. That's one of the things I think customers discover. Also it's a real opportunity, right? So if you don't have to look after a data center footprints and all the patch panels and switches and routers and firewalls and load balancers and things you have on premises, it really does allow a shift in focus for security organizations to focus on code quality, focus on user behavior, focus on a lot of things that every CSO would like to spend more time on. >> Bill, one of the things a lot of companies struggle with is how they keep up with everything that's happening, all the change there, when I talk to my friends in the security industry it's one of the things that they're most excited about. Is we need to be up on the latest fixes and the patches, and when I go to public cloud you don't ask somebody "Hey what version of AWS or Azure are you running on?" You're going to take care of that behind the scenes. How do you manage the application portfolio for customers, and get them into that framework so that they can, you know we were talking about, Cameron, Jean Kim just buy into that as security just becomes part of the process, as I get more out of agile. >> Yeah, so the question is really about helping customers understand all the services, and really get them integrated deeply. A couple of things, certainly the well architected framework, like I mentioned, is helpful for that. We have solution architects, professional services consultants, a very, very rich partner ecosystem that helps customers. A lot of training for security, there's some free training online, there's classroom, instructor-led training as well, so that training piece is important. I think the solutions are better together. We have a lot of great building blocks, but when you look at something like CloudTrail Cloud Watch Events, and Lambda together, we try and talk about the solutions, not just the individual building blocks. I think that's one key component too, to help them understand how to solve a security problem. Take, for example, monitoring the provisioning of identities and roles and permissions. We really want customers to know that that CloudTrail log, when someone attaches a role to a policy, that can go all the way to a slack channel, that can go all the way to a ticket system. You really want to talk about the end-to-end integration with our customers. Really to help them keep pace with our pace of innovation. We really try and get the blog in front of them, the security blog is a great source of information for all the security announcements we make. Follow Jeff Bar's Twitter, a bunch of things to help keep pace with all of our launches and things, yeah. >> You brought up server lists, if I look at the container space, which is related of course, security has been one of those questions. Bring us up to speed as to where you are with security containers, Lambda- >> Sure, I think Lambda's isolation is very strong, in Lambda we have a really confidence in the tenant isolation model for those functions. The nice thing about server lists is, when there's no code running, you really don't have a surface area to defend. I think from a security perspective, if you were building an application today, and you go to your security team and say "I'd really like to build this little piece of code, and tie these pieces of code together, and when they're not running there's nothing there that you need to defend." Or, would I like to build this big set of operating systems and fleet management and all the things I have to do. It's kind of a, it's a pretty easy conversation right? All the primitives are there in server-less. You have strong cryptography TLSM endpoints, you've got the IM policy framework so that identity access management has really consistent language across all the services, so principles, actions, resources, and conditions is the same across every service. It's not any different for server-less, so they can leverage the knowledge they have of how to manage identities and authorization in the same way. You've got integration of CloudTrail. So all the primitives are there, so customers can focus on their code and being builders. >> Stu: So it sounds like that's part of the way to attach security for IOT then if we're using those. >> I think for IOT it's a very similar architecture too, so you have similar policies that you can apply to what a device you can write to in the cloud. We have a really strong set of authorization and authentication features within the IOT platform so that it makes it easy for developers to build things, deploy them, and maintain them in a secure state. But you can go back to the Well-Architected Framework and the CAF, the Cloud Adoption Framework, you take those five key areas, you know identity, detective controls, infrastructure security, data protection, and IR incident response. It's pretty similar across all the different services. >> It just comes back to the fundamentals. >> It does, absolutely. And for customers, you know those control objectives haven't changed right? They have those control objectives today, they'll have them in the cloud, and we just want to make it easier and faster. >> Well Bill, thanks for being with us. >> You bet, thank you very much. >> Good to have you on theCUBE, look forward to seeing you again for the second time around. >> See you then hopefully >> Bill Shin, from AWS joining us here on theCUBE. Continuing our coverage from the AWS Summit here in New York in just a bit. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Manhattan. It's theCUBE! Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon web services. >> And welcome back here on theCUBE. The flagship broadcast of SiliconANGLE TV where our colleague John Furrier likes to say we extract the signal from the noise. Doing that here at AWS Summit here in midtown along with Stu Miniman. I'm John Walls and we're joined now by Ben Newton who's the analytics lead at Sumo Logic. And I said Ben, what is an analytics lead? If you were to give me the elevator speech on that? You said you're the geek who stays up all night and fiddles with stuff. >> That's why I joined Sumo Logic. I love finding the things that other people didn't find. And when I first joined, I was staying up until 2:00 a.m. every night playing around with the data. My wife started getting worried about me. (laughter) But that was the path that I set on. >> You're the guy that looks at the clouds and sees the man's nose, right? >> Yeah exactly, exactly. >> It's just it's in data that's all. >> Yeah, yeah. >> So I hear this concept. But we'll jump in here about continuous intelligence, right? >> Ben: Yeah. >> It's machine data and there's just this constant stream. I mean, how do you see that? How do you define that? And how does that play with how you, what you do? >> Yeah, no absolutely. So, I've been around a little while. And when I started out, there was a particular set of problems we were trying to solve. You know, we had the $100,000 Sun Microsystem servers. You drop 'em on the floor, somebody gets fired. But it was a very particular problem set. What's happened now is that the market is really changing. And so, the amount of data is just growing exponentially. So I kind of have my own conjoined triangle slide that I like to show people. But basically, things are getting smaller and smaller and smaller. We're going from these monolithic services to microservices, IOT. And the scale is just getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And what that means is that the amount of data being produced is it's bigger than anyone ever imagined. I was just looking up some numbers that Barkley says it's going to be 16 zettabytes. I had to look that up. That's a billion terabytes by 2020. That's like watching the whole Netflix catalog 30 million times. (laughter) That's the amount of data that customers are dealing with and that's what's exciting about this space I think. >> So, I remember at Re:Invent. You see Sumo's like the booth when you walk in. They actually had sumo wrestlers one year. (laughter) Remind me, just wrestling. I've got all that data. How do I take advantage of that? How do I democratize the analytics on data? What are the big challenges? You said customers used to be dropping a server on the floor. How are they getting their arms around this? How are they really leveraging their data? And leveraging analytics more? >> Yeah, I got to wrestle one of those sumos. (laughter) He let me win a little bit. (laughter) And then it was over. >> Did you have to wear the outfit? >> Luckily no. That was good for everybody. Yeah, you know, I think ... A few years ago, it was all about big data. And it was all about how much data they could get in. And I think you saw some announcements from AWS today. Really people are getting their hands around it. Now it's all about fast data. Like what can I do in real time? And that's what people are struggling with. They have this massive amount of data that's just sitting there unused. And people weren't actually getting value out of to drive the business. And that's really the next goal I think over the next few years is how can our customers and these companies get more value out of data they have without having to invest in all this costly infrastructure to do it? >> I think a few years ago, it was big data. I'm going to take the compute and I'm going to move it to the data. >> Yeah. >> Now, last year at Re:Invent, talked to a lot of the companies. They're working with Hadoop and the like, and they said the data lakes are now in the public cloud. >> Ben: Yes. >> But now I've got edge computing. I kind of have the data side, the public cloud, and the edge. And I'm never going to get all my data in the same place so how am I managing all of those various pools of data? >> Ben: Yeah. >> How do I make sure I get the right data in the right place so I can make the decisions that I need to when I need to? >> Yeah, it's a good question. So, a lot of what we're trying to do now is trying to help customers get the data in the way they want it. Just like you said. So, before, it might have been about here's our standard way. And here's our agent. You go install that. Now we're trying to provide ways for them to get the data in they want. We're providing APIs and basically trying to move towards becoming more of a platform. So the customers are sending us with third party tools they like. Because I was talking to one of my developers. And I asked him, if somebody came and said to you, you need to change the way you produce your data to use this product, what is he going to say? And he used a four letter word I can't repeat. That's how they think about it. They don't want to have to change the way they do things. So what we do is we provide lots of different ways of getting from multiple clouds from multiple tools. Open source tools. We don't care. Making it as easy as possible to get the data in. >> You know, if Stu and I were different clients of yours. What matters to Stu is much different that what matters to me, right? So how do you go about helping determine access to data in a context that I want it, >> Ben: Yeah. as opposed to the data that Stu wants at the time that he wants it? Cause it's just not about finding real time stuff, right? It's about also finding value at it. >> Ben: Yeah. >> And helping me put action to it. >> You know absolutely John. So I think there's a couple different ways. One is making it easy to get the data in like we just talked about. Another way is actually building a COSMO that matches how you use the data. The typical way that analytics tools have done it in the past, including us before, was kind of a one size fits all model. So last year we announced our unified logs and metric product which was trying to appeal to long term trending. And so now, what we're moving towards as well is providing a model that allows our customers, we call it cloud flex. It allows them to organize their data in the way that makes the most sense. So, maybe you want to keep your security data for a year. But you want to keep your operational data for seven days. That's fine. But organizing the way that makes most sense to you and match your cost to your data. I mean, this is the path that I think AWS has really set. That we're basically meeting customers where they're at. Allowing them to use it. And the second thing is also making easy for their customers to get to that data. And use it in the way they like. So you can make it easy to get in, cost efficient model, and then make it really easy for the user to get to that data. >> Ben, who are you working with the most? Maybe you're working across all these but Amazon was talking a lot about the data scientist this morning. All the ETL challenges >> Yeah. >> that are happening. I know there's a big boost for developers. I expect there's probably something with Lambda >> Yeah. >> that you're involved in. But what are some of those hot button issues that you're seeing across some of the customer roles? >> Sure, sure. I think one thing where you say that with data scientist. I mean we all know that there's a data scientist shortage. We have data scientists at Sumo Logic. They're hard to find. And so part of this is making it, one of the hot button issues is can I get people that don't have that background access to the data? And so, I may want to geek out and write inquiries and staying up to 2:00 a.m. writing that. Most people don't. That's (mumble), right? Not surprising. >> Stu: Right. >> So, a lot of that is how can you make it easier for our developers for example that have another job to do. This is not their main job. To get access to that data and use it. And so for example, one of the things we've done for customers we did for ourselves at Sumo is even making that data accessible to other parts of the business. So for example, our sales reps at Sumo Logic actually use that data to drive the customer interactions. So they can go to a customer and say, hey, we're seeing how you're using a tool. We think you could get value out of these other five things. And work with them in a constructive way. For example, a couple of other clients I've worked with. They're actually using the data in their marketing departments and their sales departments and putting this up on the wall so that other parts of the business are getting access to it beyond dev ops and IT ops, which is huge value to them, right? >> Sumo, I'm just curious. Sumo Logic, umm, where from the name? What's the genesis of that? >> Well the official story is that it's about Sumo, big data. The real story is that our founder Christian loves dogs. And he has a dog named Sumo. And so, it really fit well. It fit the name cause of big data but it also it fit it because he had a >> Alright. >> he had a dog named Sumo. >> I'll buy that. Just curious. Ben, thanks for being with us. We appreciate the time here on theCUBE and you could have taken him I know, if you really wanted to. >> I appreciate that. >> You could have, no doubt. (laughter) Ben Newton. Analytics lead at Sumo Logic joining us here on theCUBE. Back with more from AWS Summit in New York right after this break. (upbeat techno music)

>> Announcer: Live, from Manhattan, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS Summit New York City 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> John Walls: Welcome back here at the Javits Center. We're in midtown, New York, with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls, here on theCUBE, continuing our coverage here all day, livestreaming from AWS Summit. Thanks for being with us here. Aaron Newman now joins us, he's the co-founder and CEO of CrowdCheckr, and... CloudCheckr rather, and Aaron, the first employee of the company, period, to be on theCUBE, so you're really breaking out in a big way today. >> Yeah, thanks for having us here, and we're excited to be a part of this. >> I see your tag, first I thought it was "I love AWS," and then I saw it closer, "I CloudChecked AWS." >> Absolutely, but also we love AWS. So it works either way. >> So, CloudCheckr, first off tell us a little bit about you, and then how did you get here? >> Okay so, CloudCheckr is a software company. I am the CEO and one of the founders of it. Been around about six years. We build software to help enable, um, enable you to move workloads into the cloud and then manage them successfully. So there's lots of challenges as you move, and how you're going to deal with those is a little different than you did in your data center, so it's important you have the right tools, and processes, and people in place, to manage that move. >> So is the game changing any in that respect? Has it changed any in the last year or two? Is it just that you've got more options now? >> Well, I mean absolutely, this is the disruption for our generation, right? This idea of moving from the data center into the cloud is that disruption. Previously, it was the internet was the big disruption. The cloud is really this generation's disruption, and it's really a matter of how quickly are people moving workloads. Every year AWS gets more mature, they offer more services and more regions, you know, more robust service, so it's just a case of how quickly can people move workloads over. If you go back to a couple years, people thought this was for test workloads, dev workloads. It's just not the case. It's for production workloads, and the people who are taking advantage of it have a competitive advantage today. >> This is a real complex space, so last year at re:Invent I believe, Amazon gave a presentation, they were like, the eight R's to get from where you were to where you want to be. There's lift-and-shift was replatform, there was refactoring, you know, to completely building from scratch, to kind of just trying to move the whole piece. What are you seeing from customers, I'm sure it's a lot of everything, but what are kind of some of the main challenges, what's really slowing things down, and what is changing over the last couple of years? >> Yeah, absolutely, I mean change never comes fast enough, and we'd all love to be able to rewrite all our apps to work in the cloud the way that it was meant to, and that's the right and the best way to do it, you're just going to get way more return in terms of cost and security, and all the other great things that come out of the cloud, but the fact is most people are still lifting and shifting, right? They're taking their apps the way that it ran at the data center, moving into the cloud. And so you see some advantages, but you just clearly don't see the real 10x advantages. So most people are doing that, and it's just that it's expensive. New workloads, as they go in, are architected with this cloud in mind, and that's really powerful, and that's great, but it's going to take time, and it's not going to take five years, it's not going to take ten years, it's going to take 20, 30, 40 years to really get rid of all this old architecture, and convert it over. The same way nobody's putting anything on a mainframe today, but there's a whole lot of the world that's still run by mainframes, right? But you would never put a new app on a mainframe. >> Yeah, if you look at refresh cycles, you know, your server, your network takes a certain amount of time, it's your applications that's a huge amount of time, and the problem we had is, I think back and most of your applications, they kind of suck, and your users of those applications would love for you to update them. So the migration costs are so high, how do we get over that hump? >> Well, it is just going to take time for the refresh cycles, but even more important, I think we need to start looking at going back to the universities. Are universities teaching the right architectures for how to build this stuff? And I can go for hours and hours on some of the minute details, but the idea was, I used to have an application, I'd buy 20 servers, and that's what I ran it on. Now it's like, I build an application, and I don't know where it's really going to sit, it's going to sit on a server somewhere, and that server may use it for minutes or hours, and then it may be on a different server, and all of a sudden you have to think about, how am I going to architect, how am I going to write the code, how am I going to deploy that code? All that stuff is a little different than when you had 20 servers. How am I going to patch it for security holes? So we need to be educating people about that. We need to show them how to do that, back to universities, continuing education programs, all of that, needs to get brought up to date. >> A couple years ago, it seemed like security was the thing that would stop a lot of people, to say, "I'm not ready to go into it." We were talking to one of the Amazon spokespeople about security, and it seems that it's almost a driver now, because I know I need to stay up to date, I need to manage my security much closer, and in many ways, if you're running on Amazon, if you're running on Azure, if you're running on a public hub, they're going to manage some of the patching and testing and everything. So what are you seeing in kind of the security landscape? Is it an opportunity, is it still a challenge? Is it still some of both? >> I think you're absolutely right, security was the biggest fear factor that people were like, and I'm from Rochester, New York, and there are some more older, old-school technology companies there that, their attitude was, "We're not going to go to the cloud, because we don't know where the data sits," and there's a lot of server huggers, that if I can't see the server, it's not secure, and that's just not the case. Let me start with, Amazon has way better security people than you could hire, right? They just have a scale, caliber, programs, all of that that's so much better than anyone else. And you know what, if you had any question about it, the day the head of technology, the CIO for the CIA, stood on stage at an Amazon conference, and said we are going to the cloud, it's like if you think your security needs to be higher than the CIA's, you're wrong. So, it absolutely does, if you do things in the cloud properly, it can be 10 times more secure than what you're in your own data center, right? But you need to do things like think about, how am I doing deployment, so I can get out patches, right? What's the big problem with security in the data center is I have a patch, it hits, and it's going to take me a year to get that out to my 10,000 servers. In the cloud, if I've done things where I have this idea of no-patching strategies, and redeploying instantaneously, then you could fix a patch in a day, right? And all of a sudden it can create a much more secure world, where we don't have these ransomware problems. You don't have all these worms and such causing havoc. >> Go ahead, John. >> You touched on something just a few minutes ago, and you're talking about 20, 30, 40 years, right, catching up, and legacy systems, and people who can leapfrog, and I'm thinking, that's like this perpetual cycle of never catching up, because the technology innovates so quickly, and things are moving so fast. So somebody that might feel like they're really behind? How do they ever just relax and get there if they feel like they really can't catch up? >> Well, so I guess I'll start by saying that people in this room are on the leading edge, and I like to say if you're not bleeding, you're not leading, right? If you're on that leading edge, you're going to have more challenges, you're not going to be able to relax and take it easy. The question is, you know, do you want to be a firm that's trying to take advantage of every competitive edge they can, trying to drive a little bit more, then you're not going to be relaxed. That's just the state of technology today is, it is a marathon, it's not a sprint. But that means you have to find a pace that's appropriate for you, and if you're a brand new software company, like CloudCheckr, I've never bought a server, I built everything in the cloud day-one, so I never have the old legacy architecture. That makes my life much easier. If I am the postal service, it's going to take me a long time to get off the system, and that's just the fact of life, you know. You don't have to throw away your old apps, they'll be around for a long time, but be proactive about saying, "I'm going to build something new," do it the right way so you don't have to wait for a refresh cycle for that. >> Walls: Right, gotcha. >> I mean think about, on the mainframe, remember some of the problems with getting apps off the mainframe was? Nobody had the source code anymore. You couldn't fix Y2K bugs, because you didn't have source code, so you couldn't redeploy it, because they wrote code, and the person that wrote it retired 15 years ago, and now what do I do? I'm stuck. So we're going to be in that same scenario for a long time. >> The other place where you're involved is, once we'd actually got in the cloud, how do we make sure my expenses don't just run away? So you know, maybe talk to us a little bit about that. Amazon's always an interesting one. I was talking in our intro this morning, early in this year, I was talking to a lot of SMB customers that were just like, Google's really attractive, and Amazon doesn't seem to be listening to us, and a week after the Google conference, Amazon changed their pricing, to be able to really match what Google's doing. So what are the some of the biggest challenges in pricing, how are you helping customers, where are some of the pitfalls that they're seeing? >> I mean, absolutely, AWS is the smartest people out there, they know when they need to change and pivot, and somehow they're a billion dollar company that can still pivot, which is a miracle. I don't know how they do it, but they are amazing at that. But let me start by giving you a little of the analogy of, think back to in the 1850's when you had power plants. Everybody built their own power plant, right? And it would cost a million dollars to build a power plant, and then most of your power would be free, right? And then they decided, let's build power plants, I'll spend 50 million dollars to build it, and then everyone will use that, right? We're in the same place now, 150 years later, but it's just different, it's technology. Instead of building a data center and spending millions of dollars on it, instead Amazon has built a data center that's designed for everybody to use, and it's so much more efficient to do that, just like, God, who would build their own power plant anymore? That's the analogy. But think about the other side of it, though, is now if I'm getting my power from a power plant, well I got to start putting in a meter, and understanding turning off the lights at night, and I got to put windows in to keep the heat in the house, and put insulation, right? So we're in the same situation. Yes, Amazon is cheaper, except if you turn all of your servers on, you leave them on, and you don't meter it, you don't understand it, you don't try to put insulation in. So you got to do those things in the cloud. It was easy before, because I just paid for the servers and I was done. Now it's complicated, but it's complicated because you're going to save a lot of money if you do it right. But you know, I love to make that analogy of the physical world, we're no different. You got to actually do things to get your build out. >> Are you starting to see many customers looking at Lambda, because that's something, at least many customers we've talked to, significantly reduced the cost of your infrastructure, because it's not just, I'm choosing when to use it, but only when the function calls it. >> So I think, AWS, you can effectively drive your cost to zero by using the cloud, and by effectively, it never gets to zero, but you can really keep driving it down the more work you put into it. But there's a balance, right? If you put too much work, you offset the savings you're going to have, right? So you go to the cloud, and you start doing work, more work to reduce costs by rightsizing, turning things off, and then you say, let me go to Lambda, because that's even cheaper, but today Lambda still, it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, it's still very much the bleeding edge. So, if you can do it, if you have a fresh application, the expertise to do it, it's a great place to go, and I think in 20 years, everybody's going to be doing everything serverless, all new stuff. We're very early though, right now. We're still inventing this stuff, we're still figuring it out, we're still trying to understand how do I structure an entire application using this serverless architecture? It's trickier than doing it, when you go out there and you try to find 20 programmers to run a project, to get ones that know how to build serverless is very hard, so that's the real challenge. It's not the technology challenge, it's the people, where am I going to find the resources, how much is it going to cost me, all of that. >> I'm still thinking about the power plant. I'm still back in 1850 right now. (laughs) Thanks for being with us. >> You're welcome. >> I appreciate the time here on theCUBE, and best of luck down the road, and glad to see that you are cloudchecking with AWS. >> Check your cloud before you wreck your cloud, right? >> There you go, alright. Aaron Newman, CloudCheckr. Continuing our coverage, we are just a moment here from AWS Summit 2017, we are live at the Javits Center, in New York City. (electronic music)

>> Announcer: Live from Manhattan, it's theCube, covering AWS Summit, New York City, 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back to the Big Apple as we continue our coverage here on theCube of AWS Summit 2017. We're at the Javits Center. We're in midtown. A lot of hustle and bustle outsie and inside there, good buzz on the show floor with about 5,000 strong attending and some 20,000 registrants also for today's show. Along with Stu Miniman, I'm John Walls, and glad to have you here on theCube. And Dustin Kirkland now joins us. He's at Ubuntu, the product and strategy side of things at Canonical, and Dustin, good to see you back on theCube. >> Thank you very much. >> You just threw a big number out at us when we were talking off camera. I'll let you take it from there, but it shows you about the presence, you might say, of Ubuntu and AWS, what that nexus is right now. >> Ubuntu easily leads as the operating system in Amazon. About 70%, seven zero, 70% of all instances running in Amazon right now are running Ubuntu. And that's actually, despite the fact that Amazon have their own Amazon Linux and there are other, Windows, Rails, SUSE, Debian, Fedora, other alternatives. Ubuntu still represents seven out of 10 workloads in Amazon running right now. >> John: Huge number. >> So, Dustin, maybe give us a little insight as to what kind of workloads you're seeing. How much of this was people that, Ubuntu has a great footprint everywhere and therefore it kind of moved there. And how much of it is new and interesting things, IOT and machine learning and everything like that, where you also have support. >> When you're talking about that many instances, that's quite a bit of boat, right? So if you look at just EC2 and the two types of workloads, there are the long-running workloads. The workloads that are up for many months, years in some cases. I met a number of customers here this week that are running older versions of Ubuntu like 12.04 which are actually end of life, but as a customer of Canonical we continue providing security updates. So we have a product called Extended Security Maintenance. There's over a million instances of Ubuntu 12.04 which are already end of life but Canonical can continue providing security updates, critical security updates. That's great for the long-running workloads. The other thing that we do for long-running workloads are kernel live patches. So we're able to actually fix vulnerabilities in the Linux kernel without rebooting, using entirely upstream and open source technology to do that. So for those workloads that stay up for months or years, the combination of Extended Security Maintenance, covering it for a very long time, and the kernel live patch, ensuring that you're able to patch those vulnerabilities without rebooting those systems, it's great for hosting providers and some enterprise workloads. Now on the flip side, you also see a lot of workloads that are spikey, right. Workloads that come and go in bursts. Maybe they run at night or in the morning or just whenever an event happens. We see a lot of Ubuntu running there. It's really, a lot of that is focused on data and machine learning, artificial intelligence workloads, that run in that sort of bursty manner. >> Okay, so it was interesting, when I hear you talk about some things that have been running for a bunch of years, and on the other side of the spectrum is serverless and the new machine learning stuff where it tends to be there, what's Canonical doing there? What kind of exciting, any of the news, Macey, Glue, some of these other ones that came out, how much do those fit into the conversations you're having? >> Sure, they all really fit. When we talk about what we're doing to tune Ubuntu for those machine learning workloads, it really starts with the kernel. So we actually have an AWS-optimized Linux kernel. So we've taken the Ubuntu Linux kernel and we've tuned it, working with the Amazon kernel engineers, to ensure that we've carved out everything in that kernel that's not relevant inside of an Amazon data center and taken it out. And in doing so, we've actually made the kernel 15% smaller, which actually reduces the security footprint and the storage footprint of that kernel. And that means smaller downloads, smaller updates, and we've made it boot 30% faster. We've done that by adding support, turning on, configuring on some parameters that enable virtualization or divert IO drivers or specifically the Amazon drivers to work really well. We've also removed things like floppy disk drives and Bluetooth drivers, which you'll never find in a virtual machine in Amazon. And when you take all of those things in aggregate and you remove them from the kernel, you end up with a much smaller, better, more efficient package. So that's a great starting point. The other piece is we've ensured that the latest and greatest graphics adapters, the GPUs, GPGPUs from Invidia, that the experienced on Ubuntu out of the box just works. It works really well, and well at scale. You'll find almost all machine learning workloads are drastically improved inside of GPGPU instances. And for the dollar, you're able to compute sometimes hundreds or thousands of times more efficiently than a fewer CPU type workload. >> You're talking about machine learning, but on the artificial intelligence side of life, a lot of conversation about that at the keynotes this morning. A lot of good services, whatever, again, your activity in that and where that's going, do you think, over the next 12, 16 months? >> Yes, so artificial intelligence is a really nice place where we see a lot of Ubuntu, mainly because the nature of how AI is infiltrating our lives. It has these two sides. One side is at the edge, and those are really fundamentally connected devices. And for every one of those billions of devices out there, there are necessarily connections to an instance in the cloud somewhere. So if we take just one example, right, an autonomous vehicle. That vehicle is connected to the internet. Sometimes well, when you're at home, parked in the garage or parked at Whole Foods, right? But sometimes it's not. You're in the middle of the desert out in West Texas. That autonomous vehicle needs to have a lot of intelligence local to that vehicle. It gets downloaded opportunistically. And what gets downloaded are the results of that machine learning, the results of that artificial intelligence process. So we heard in the keynotes quite a bit about data modeling, right? Data modeling means putting a whole bunch of data into Amazon, which Amazon has made it really easy to do with things like Snowball and so forth. Once the data is there, then the big GPGPU instances crunch that data and the result is actually a very tight, tightly compressed bit of insight that then gets fed to devices. So an autonomous vehicle that every single night gets a little bit better by tweaking its algorithms, when to brake, when to change lanes, when to make a left turn safely or a right turn safely, those are constantly being updated by all the data that we're feeding that. Now why I said that's important from an Ubuntu perspective is that we find Ubuntu in both of those locations. So we open this by saying that Ubuntu is the leading operating system inside of Amazon, representing 70% of those instances. Ubuntu is, across the board, right now in 100% of the autonomous vehicles that are running today. So Uber's autonomous vehicle, the Tesla vehicles, the Google vehicles, a number of others from other manufacturers are all running Ubuntu on the CPU. There's usually three CPUs in a smart car. The CPU that's running the autonomous driving engine is, across the board, running Ubuntu today. The fact that it's the same OS makes it, makes life quite nice for the developers. The developers who are writing that software that's crunching the numbers in the cloud and making the critical real-time decisions in the vehicle. >> You talk about autonomous vehicles, I mean, it's about a car in general, thousands of data points coming in, in continual real time. >> Dustin: Right. >> So it's just not autonomous -- >> Dustin: Right. >> operations, right? So are you working in that way, diagnostics, navigation, all those areas? >> Yes, so we catch as headlines are a lot of the hobbyist projects, the fun stuff coming out of universities or startup space. Drones and robots and vacuum cleaners, right? And there's a lot of Ubuntu running there, anything from Raspberry Pis to smart appliances at home. But it's actually, I think, really where those artificially intelligent systems are going to change our lives, is in the industrial space. It's not the drone that some kids are flying around in the park, it's the drone that's surveying crops, that's coming to understand what areas of a field need more fertilizer or less water, right. And that's happening in an artificially intelligent way as smarter and smarter algorithms make its way onto those drones. It's less about the running Pandora and Spotify having to choose the right music for you when you're sitting in your car, and a lot more about every taxicab in the city taking data and analytics and understanding what's going on around them. It's a great way to detect traffic patterns, potentially threats of danger or something like that. That's far more industrial and less intresting than the fun stuff, you know, the fireworks that are shot off by a drone. >> Not nearly as sexy, right? It's not as much fun. >> But that's where the business is, you know. >> That's right. >> One of the things people have been looking at is how Amazon's really maturing their discussion of hyrid cloud. Now, you said that data centers, public cloud, edge devices, lots of mobile, we talked about IOT and everything, what do you see from customers, what do you think we're going to see from Amazon going forward to build these hybrid architectures and how does that fit in to autonomous vehicles and the like? >> So in the keynote we saw a couple of organizations who were spotlighted as all-in on Amazon, and that's great. And actually almost all of those logos that are all-in on Amazon are all-in on Amazon on Ubuntu and that's great. That's a very small number of logos compared to the number of organizations out there that are actually hybrid. Hybrid is certainly a ramp to being all-in but for quite a bit of the industry, that's the journey and the destination, too, in fact. That there's always going to be some amount compute that happens local and some amount of compute that happens in the cloud. Ubuntu helps provide an important portability layer. Knowing something runs well on Ubuntu locally, it's going to run well on Ubuntu in Amazon, or vise versa. The fact that it runs well in Amazon, it will also run well on Ubuntu locally. Now we have a support -- >> Yeah, I was just curious, you talked about some of the optimization you made for AWS. >> Dustin: Right. >> Is that now finding its way into other environments or do we have a little bit of a fork? >> We do, it does find it's way back into other environments so, you know, the Amazon hypervisors are usually Xen-based, although there are some interesting other things coming from Amazon there. Typically what we find on-prem is usually more KVM or Vmware based. Now, most of what goes into that virtual kernel that we build for Amazon actually applies to the virtual kernel that we built for Ubuntu that runs in Xen and Vmware and KVM. There's some subtle differences. Some, a few things that we've done very specifically for Amazon, but for the most part it's perfectly compatible all the way back to the virtual machines that you would run on-prem. >> Well, Dustin, always a pleasure, >> Yeah. >> to have you hear on theCube. >> Thanks, John. >> You're welcome back any time. >> All right. >> We appreciate the time and wish you the best of luck here the rest of the day, too. >> Great. >> Good deal. >> Thank you. >> Glad to be with us. Dustin Kirkland from Canonical joining us here on theCube. Back with more from AWS Summit 2017 here in New York City right after this.

>> Live from Washington, D.C., it's theCUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit, 2017. Brought to you by Amazon web services and it's partner, Ecosystem. >> And welcome to our nation's capitol. Here we are in Washington, D.C. TheCUBE coming live from the Walter Washington Convention Center, here for AWS Private Sector Summit. It's our maiden voyage with the Public Sector so looking forward to this. John Walsh and John Furrier, glad to have you along for the ride, John, this is going to be a good week. >> Hey, it'll be fun. >> A good couple of days. John Galvin joins us. He is the Vice President and General Manager of the Public Sector Intel. John, thank you for being with us here on theCUBE; glad to have you. >> It's a pleasure to be here, thank you. >> Tell us a little bit first off, about your portfolio. >> Sure. >> I understand you cover not only United States, but you have a global footprint as well. Touch base a little bit with our audience with what you're up to. >> Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, I have to put it in perspective for everyone. People know us as a micro-processor company. They don't always attribute us to going out and calling on government, or education decision makers. So we really act as a trusted advisor. We don't sell directly to government or to education entities, and I have sales people, or account exec's, around the world who are going in and meeting with ministers of education or ministers of ICT. Sometimes it's a school superintendent or a district superintendent, but, overall, what we're talking about is digital transformation and how technology can be used to advance government or advance education. And sometimes at a national level, could be at a state level, could be at a district level. >> Well, John and I were talking in our open segment just a little bit ago, about maybe a glacial pace isn't fair to say about how government had that reputation, obviously, for many years about being, maybe, reluctant. >> Right. >> To embrace change. What do you see now in that space? Is there this shift going on, that there's more of an embracing of technology? And of more entrepreneurial kind of spirit within the operation of government? >> Yeah, absolutely. It is happening so quickly. The categorization of government moving slowly is absolutely true. Education the same. But now wherever I go around the world, everyone is talking about transformation and they're starting to launch projects that might be a pilot or a proof of concept, but they're getting started. The challenge is when you talk about digital transformation it is so big so it becomes difficult for governments to really get their hands around it, and what are they going to do to improve citizens quality of life. Is that going to be a healthcare initiative? Is it going to be a transportation initiative? Sometimes it's an education initiative; and we're seeing them all. I think what is causing it to advance now is they see proof-points that it works. That by making those investments it really is changing the quality of life for people. And in emerging markets they don't have existing infrastructure that they have to tear out and replace. And some of the mature markets, it's how do you actually breakdown those silos. >> Well, John, I'm really glad you came on. Intel, in my opinion, I've been following Intel for many years, recently, has been pretty amazing. But you guys have always been a bellwether for trends, I'd say, five to 10 years out. I mean, look at everything that Intel's done with technology You have that five to 10 year stair instantly in what you're proposing. We've been seeing a lot of the AI commercials with Intel, what is the Public Sector trends that intersect with the vision of Intel? >> Well, you're absolutely right. If you look at what Intel does we're similar to the auto industry. It takes us five to six years to produce our next processor, and so we have to be looking that far out of what are the use cases, and really, what are those technological boundaries that we're going to either cross or break? And AI is absolutely the conversation today. It's sort of around artificial intelligence and it's no longer science fiction. We're not talking about it in the future; we're now talking about how can we use it today? Machine learning big, big topic, and not just the role that Intel plays, but companies like AWS; big players, in terms of how that actually comes to life in your home. It's not just how it's going to come to life in a big government institution or a big enterprise. >> And the Public Sector landscape, for the folks that are watching some know the Public Sector, what is the Public Sector? Because it's not the government. There's education, there's health, so what's the layout. How do you categorically look at it? How should people think about Public Sector? Not just GovCloud because there's a GovCloud, but is there a Public Sector cloud? I mean, how should people think about it? >> Yeah, great question. I work as part of a group at Intel that are all verticals. There's a healthcare team, there's a transportation team, there's an energy team. Public Sector is completely different because we're all of those things. We're working on transportation projects, we're working big healthcare projects, and so Public Sector you have to look at in the biggest sense where it's not just a federal presence but it is a state presence, it's a city presence or a county presence. And so our opportunity is to be able to connect all of those things, and that is what I think is so exciting about the transformation that is taking place right now is for that vision to be realized those silos really need to be broken. You know, you're going to hear comments over the next couple of days about forming a data lake. Which is bringing in all of those data streams into a single spot so that you can apply analytics and be able to get to insights that we've never been able to get to before. >> So how do you do that if you talk about municipality levels, state levels, federal levels, different operating systems, different processes, different procedures? And all great resources, how do you pull all that together and make that an asset instead of a morass? >> Well, in that question you just captured how big this opportunity is, and the way that we do it is we work with our ecosystem partners. The strength that Intel has when we enter into those conversations is we work with everyone. We work with the big cloud providers, we work with all the different operating system providers. We're not only with the computer companies that are our partners and our customers, but we're working now with internet and think companies, and so we have the ability to now work across that ecosystem to start pulling all of those pieces together. The heart of your question though is that those are all different systems that have been built over time. And if you look at what's been happening in enterprise over the past 10 years is CIO's and CTO's at the enterprise levels have been breaking down those silos and moving more to single systems and big data streams. And now that's what's happening with in the Public Sector is that data has to come together. >> John, talk about the collaboration between Intel and AWS and what is going on with you guys, how you guys are working together, and what's the impact in serving Public Sector customers? >> Well, we have had a great partnership with AWS from the beginning. (audio cuts out) (audio cuts out) That's going to take on this bigger vision is going to have a cloud discussion. There will still be things that they're going to be doing on premise, but it's most likely going to be a hybrid environment. And so with AWS we really have the opportunity to have a bigger discussion, where they can really have that cloud discussion and even some of the analytics layer. They're also doing more at an IOT perspective; we're able to join that conversation in terms of how our technology really plays into it. But I think the other thing we're able to do with AWS is really look for innovators. We're able to identify either those small companies, or even some of the cities are doing some really great things. And then because of their global footprint and our global footprint we can share that pretty broadly. >> And ecosystem's critical. You guys, Intel's always been ecosystem friendly company. With that in mind I got to ask you the question that everyone's talking about, and certainly, we're covering Mobile World Congress this year in Barcelona. And you couldn't go anywhere without hearing 5G and these new phones that are coming out. And then under the hood network transformation, you're hearing about software to find networking, machine learning, AI a lot of things that you guys are talking about. So the question for you is Smart Cities. It is a really, really hot opportunity just to even think about the concept of what a Smart City entails. I mean, here in D.C., like other cities, they have bicycles people can take out and ride around. That's a smart city, that's a cool service. But now you bring digital all to it. Imagine, Air B&B, you've got Uber, you've got Lift you've got all kinds of digital services, digital experiences. This is a government, this is a Public Sector issue. This is an interesting one. How is Intel's view on Smart Cities, how do you see that rolling out? >> First of all, we're very excited about what's happening within Smart Cities, and to the beginning of your question we think 5G is going to be an accelerant. It's going to cause it to happen even faster than it's happening now. What's interesting about Smart City is that it really does take a lot of different formats. And so we see cities who are really focused on public security and safety. We have examples whether it's Singapore, London of how they're now capturing new data with the cameras that they put up, and can do real-time analytics on it using AI and machine learning. So it's not that they just have all of these data streams, but they're doing real-time analysis of the data stream to be able to identify potential threats. But we also have examples where we're seeing cities invest in new technology to, essentially, replace what are the old ways of us being able to communicate and engage with the government. And that could be as simple as there's new information that's available to us. Or as they're collecting all these data streams they're making that data public and available for innovation, and so entrepreneurs now have the ability to also build solutions on those data streams. It's an incredibly exciting time. >> I mean, it's mind boggling to just think about how we live our lives in our cities. I can call the police department, the fire department, call for services in the analog world. Imagine video chat. Is that going to go to the certain departments? So how people engage, which side of the street do the cars drive on, who decides all that? And this is kind of how big this is. It's mind blowing. >> Well, it is big, and I'm going to answer that in two ways. Yes, the way that we did things before is changing and it's changing rapidly. To your 911 reference, I don't know, does it have to be a video engagement? Or through video are we actually capturing real-time that there's an incident that the fire department or an ambulance or police need to be dispatched. Where no phone call actually needs to be made. >> Real-time analytics. >> Yeah. >> Predicted, prescriptive analytics could come to the table. >> Yeah, absolutely. And so we're already seeing examples of that, where that's happening today. What we're not seeing happening at scale, but I think we will see it happening at scale, all of those early adopters they had to figure it out on their own. But now we have blueprints, we have frameworks that we can share with other cities where they will be able to do it much more quickly. >> All right, what project really stands out for you, in all the things you're looking at, in the Public Sector because there's so much going on that you guys are doing I mean, props to Intel love what they're doing. The AI mission really puts a vision in place but also it's reality now with machine learning. What projects stand out for you that you see as real innovative, collaborative between Intel and AWS? >> Yeah, so we did a project with AWS where we, essentially, created a competition for new ideas to be able to come forward, and out of that what we've seen is some cities really doing some innovative things, just taking those first steps. What that does for us is it gives us a broader view than we would be able to get on our own. But some of that's basic. Say exciting stuff, we have exciting examples, the kiosks on the street corners in New York are an exciting example. What we see some of the universities doing, I think, is really exciting. Universities around the world have an issue with student retention. Where they just experience high drop out rates at the end of the freshman year and the end of the sophomore year. The challenge is how do you identify a student at risk? Well, automate attendance and you can now see are students actually attending classes. Or are they skipping class? Start using sensors and beacons on the campus and you can actually detect what those student patterns are and you just might need to have a counselor step in or a professor step in and really sit down with them and walk them through it. >> Use the IOT example, humans are things too, right? I mean, wearables, they got all kinds of sensors that could be even on-person device too. Absolutely, we have been working with the University of Texas Arlington, exactly, on that project. Through a sensor you can actually capture the emotional state of student. Are they highly stressed? And should that be, again, an environment where-- >> Explain how. How does that work? >> Through body temperature and -- >> So biometrics being measured. >> Yeah. >> Body temperature, respiration rates, all those kinds of things. >> Mental health is a huge issue in colleges and universities around the pressure. >> You can see that idea from a health perspective, strep throat, right? >> Sure. >> It's like the freshman plague. Every freshman gets strep throat. But if you could identify anxiety as it's being formulated before it manifests itself in academic performance, you could treat that. >> Sure, and now you combine that with capturing data from the student cafeteria or dorms of what are they're eating patterns, what are they're sleeping patterns? Are they actually getting enough sleep? So you get a much more holistic view of the student. And we have to be careful here, right, because-- >> There's privacy concerns. >> Right, there's absolutely privacy and security concerns. And anyone who engages in these projects, heightened awareness of that. So it really is about quality of life and how do you create a better educational experience, not create anything that's threatening, but it becomes a much more personalized learning experience. >> The convergence and the conflicts between IOT and cloud and processing power and software, it's interesting, I was looking on prior to the show coming in I saw on your website at Intel Farmers in America. And then on Amazon's site there's a City on the Cloud. Can you take a minute and explain those projects. I think they're both Intel and AWS collaborations. Can you just take a minute to explain the City on the Cloud and the Farmers of America, what's the big aha there? >> So it's a three year project that we've been working on in collaboration with AWS, and the whole idea was for us to be able to identify some innovative ideas within the space because it is still a new area. How do we, essentially, give some of these entrepreneurs and innovative people a chance to be able to bring their idea into fruition? And so agriculture and Farmers America's a great example because that data is being collected in terms of weather patterns and how they can now, essentially, access that data to be able to plan differently what they're doing as well as better enable them to share with others what they're finding as they're making changes too. >> The farm tech has been hot on the D.C. community, certainly, in the Silicon Valley seeing people doing farm tech. Farm tech is one of those things, agriculture's a huge area that health implications too. People are interested in automating a lot of things and bringing tech there. And then also healthcare is a factor too. One of the areas is education but healthcare is another one that you guys are, what's the new thing in there that you guys are doing in healthcare? >> Yeah, we're doing quite a bit in healthcare around the world, and if you really think about it the challenge with healthcare is that your records are typically with your doctor or with your hospital. They're not always shared and they don't move with you when you travel. And so the first opportunity is how does that data actually become standardized so that it can actually be shared. But the other opportunity in healthcare is for those CTO's and CIO's to start using data very differently, to understand the patterns of what's happening within their hospitals. And you're earlier reference, John, to strep throat within a campus, how do you, essentially, start tracking that there's a trend and that there's something that you could potentially deal with much more quickly once you have the insights to it. >> All right, so take a minute as end this segment here, I want to get your thoughts on, give us a taste and showcase some of the Intel speeds and feeds, some of the tech, what's under the hood, what's coming out of Intel that's powering all of this because remember we're all driving the self-driving digital tooling out there. It's all powered by the Zeons, all kinds of cool stuff. What's the latest state-of-the-art that you got from Intel that you guys are bringing to the market in the Public Sector? >> Yeah, well, thank you for that question. I don't normally get it. >> John loves it. He's a speed and feed guy. >> To get too much feedback. Too geeky. >> Well, your earlier question was around AI and machine learning and for us that's the zonify. And if you look at the power of zonify it's, essentially, three times the teraflops of the largest super computer that existed 20 years ago, in a single processor. And so for us it's an opportunity to then really be able to advance and accelerate what's happening with artificial intelligence as well as machine learning. >> Well, it's an exciting new world. Obviously with a realm that goes healthcare to ag, to education, to government with Intel very much at the center of that. John, thanks for being with us. >> It was great to be here. >> We appreciate the time on theCUBE. We look forward to having you back. We'll continue our coverage live here from the AWS Public Sector Summit here on theCUBE. Back with more in just a bit. (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: Live from the Washington D.C. It's the CUBE covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you be Amazon Web Services and it's partner Ecosystem. >> Welcome back here on the CUBE as we continue our coverage of the AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls we're in the Walter E. Washington Convention Center. For the sixth show, of almost 10,000 attending. somewhere in that ball park. It's come along way in a very short period of time. AWS has a lot to feel good about. >> It's a good reinvent for Public Sector. It's huge. >> And not just to think about government. We think about education as well. We had a couple of segments about that. We are going to talk about government with our next guest. If we get a name wrong on this segment shame on us, John Stephenson with John Walls and John Furrier. John's a senior manage at Public Policy at AWS. John nice to have you with us we appreciate that. >> Thank you for having me. >> Thank you for your time. So your focus primarily state and local governments. What exactly as the conduit do you want to bring to their table from of AWS? >> Well I'm Senior Manager, of Public Policy for Amazon Web Services in the Eastern United States. I handle state and local government relations in the Eastern U.S. from Texas to Main and then South Florida. I help our business and also our partners in government to understand how public policy can enable cloud and modern technologies. It's a very exciting place to be because there's a lot going on in state and local government when it comes to IT modernization and cloud right now. >> I think about government too. There's that big umbrella we can put on (mumbles). It's public service. But federal government has a place and state and local. I think much more responsive, much more grass roots. So those applications are much more immediate. I would think. Does that come into play with you? That you need to be a little more nimble. Or you're helping your clients to be a litter more nimble or more agile? >> Absolutely, if you look at what state and local governments are doing. Essential services from delivering health care to taking out the trash, providing public safety, providing education it's handled at the state and local government. If you look at the number of times you touch government. It is state and local. Think about renewing a driver license. Think about paying a parking ticket. Think about getting a zoning permit for remodeling of your house. You're dealing with state and local government. The demands on state and local government are also higher. They're holding more data on citizens than the Federal government. They are undergoing massive population changes. It's either positive or negative. State and local governments which have budget constraints. Need to be more nimble, more innovative. They are natural early adopters and first movers of technology. If you look at some of the more exciting things about technology that are happening in the government space. I think it's happening at state and local government in the U.S. >> Smart cities by the way is the hottest trend. Intel one of the key sponsors of this show. We had two folks on here. AI is going to be a real nice gateway for some of these innovations on their side. They have 5G opportunities. They have transformation. Lot of technology going on under the covers, under the hood if you will. One of them is smart cities and that is something that is just mind blowing. Just from a technology stand point but even more mind blowing from a policy perspective. Who sets the rules? What side does the car run on? What digital services are the citizens going to get? Who pays for them? What does the government do? What does the private sector do? These are issues that need to be grappled with. Your thoughts on how you guys look at that? And how are your constituents engaging with that and thinking about it? >> I'm glad you mentioned smart cities because there's a lot of activity going on in that space. If you look at the internet of things technologies alone. One of the enablers of smart cities. As many as 53% of state and local government according to NASCIO are looking at these technologies or deploying them. It's great to see that because that will enable a lot of potential from smarter government services, better government services, improving service delivery and improving constituent fulfillment. Which resonates with us, as part of Amazon. We're all about our customer fulfillment and delighting our customer. >> Lower prices and ship things faster that's Bezos' ethos. That's Amazon's culture. >> Exactly. >> And you could deliver services any digital service. >> Everything we do starts with the customer and we work backwards. In the conversations I've had with policy makers in the state and local governments. They see smart cities as a way to do that. Everything from improving transportation in places like Columbus, Ohio. To improving connectivity and engagement with the internet in places Kansas City, Missouri. And new ways of delivering services in places like New York and Los Angeles. It's very exciting stuff. Policy makers are coming to us and others in the industry. What are the policies? What are the best practices that can enable these technologies? We've been working with them. Providing information on what we're seeing around the world. How open data can be made (mumbles). How security and compliance can be built into applications. And we're happy to provide that because we know from working in the cloud ourselves. The potential that's there for state and local government. >> You want to foster innovation but at the same time you don't want to create this restrictive environment. Or have legacy be the baggage that holds things back. In fact you look at some of the best smart cities implementation. It's Singapore. It's Dubai. It's areas all over the world. In some cases it didn't have real strong infrastructure. So now come back to your role. As you look at the U.S. which has great infrastructure. Except for broadband connectivity, we'd be faster. They have some pre-existing conditions. They're under pressure. The cloud is a prefect vehicle for them. Because they can come in with their existing stuff. Get apps and services online quicker. How are you dealing with the challenge of? OK, calm down we're not going to take over the world. No, skynet's not coming. You know terminator reference. That's a concern, privacy. Lot of in policy issues, to be dealt with. How do you handle those? >> I think with any policy issue. I've been in public policy for a while now. It really starts with education. Understanding in really simple layman's terms. What the cloud is. And what it is not. It is a very transformative technology. It is not an end all one size fits all technology. What we've done is help educate policy makers by understanding the potential of cloud. What it can do in terms of cost savings, improved security, and being more agile. And to tell that story, we don't use PowerPoints at Amazon. We're not coming in and giving PowerPoint presentations. >> Good ole flesh pounding, hand shakes, and hit the streets. >> We'll more importantly it's sharing the customer's stories We're talking with them about what's happening at the New York City Department of Transportation. We're talking with them about what's happening at the city of Los Angeles with their emergency operation center. About how cities are using cloud technologies to deliver far superior products and services faster. >> So what is New York doing and what is L.A. doing specifically? >> New York city they have their iRide application to help citizens get from one point to the other much more quickly and safely as part of their Vision Zero campaign. Anyone who's been in New York, and I've been in New York quite a few times. Knows that traffic and be a real pain getting from part of Manhattan to the other. So what iRide does, is it helps people navigate Manhattan and the other boroughs much more quickly and efficiently using all the modes of transportation available to them. The city of New York was able to deploy that much more quickly, to many more people. They're able to update it, keep it secure thanks to cloud technology offered by AWS. The city of Los Angeles. They face cyber attacks everyday. Then there are the huge cost of maintaining that security. But with cloud they're able to build out event management systems and integrate those with their Homeland Security technologies and practices. And to be able to do it for a fraction of the cost using traditional systems, traditional IT, and traditional practices. It's very exciting. Suddenly local government can move at the speed and agility of a startup. Which has made Amazon very innovative. Last year we launched over a thousand new services and features. Local governments are seeing that. They want to be more like us and others in the industry. That are using cloud to deliver new products and services. And be better at their job. >> And the education, I say it probably patience in the educational role. You think about just the civil liberties of the citizens. That's really job one. Because I think most people get spooked. Whoa all this surveillance. The thing about it, just watching Patriots Day with my family. You know the Boston bombing, Boston strong with Mark Wahlberg. These things actually happen all the time. And we take for granted the some of the things we have in the surveillance community for the kinds of data that's out there. The same time that's the balance. Can you bring me value with my liberties. It's the same compliance scheme. Same governance game. This is the public sector. >> Well, that's where I think cloud has a great story to tell With cloud you get the benefits of economies of scale. Of Amazon with security and also with privacy. We have multiple compliance frameworks. Everything from HIPPA, FERPA, CJIS, Criminal Justice Information Systems. We are zealous guardians of security and our customer's privacy. We don't look at data. We don't share data about with out our customer's permission. We have very strong safeguards. That's why if you look a the customer base of Amazon from banks to government agencies, health care companies. Even companies like Netflix and you would think they're a competitor of ours. They're running their IT in AWS. They trust us even though with Amazon video and Amazon prime. You would think they're a competitor. But they've put that level of trust in us and our systems and our practices that they can put their data there. And we're hearing it from customer after customer. That they feel more safer and more secure with their data in the cloud offered by AWS. And we've shared that with government officials. And they take great comfort in those statements. >> You hit on something earlier. When you said that state governments and local governments have more data at their disposal than the federal government has about their consumers. Because of that, how much higher do find their concerns to be, in terms of cyber security, in terms of hack proof secured networks and systems as opposed to what might happen at the federal level. Cause we think federal. We think big. About what happened with the U.S. government's payment systems last year OPM. State and local they've got a lot more data they're protecting >> I've had a great opportunity in my current job to talk with a lot of IT officials and policy makers in the state. And, often times a meeting will start. And they'll say I've read about this. I've heard about this. And we're often able to say that's not an issue with the cloud offered the AWS. Or that's something we've already addressed through our security and compliance frame works. For example, I was in one meeting and a state policy maker asked me, well what do you do about HIPPA compliance. We have HIPPA compliance in AWS. And then he tried to ask questions, well what about this, what about that. And each time our team was able to tell the state policy maker. We meet that. We exceed that. We actually help write the standard for that compliance frame work. What we've been able to show that policy maker and others. The cloud just offers a far superior security posture than what they can do on their own. It's taken some time because the cloud is new. And as we like to say, it's still day one in this field. But we are very confident as word gets out. More and more people will be trusting particularly in state government their data to the cloud. Because of the superiority it offers on so many different levels. >> Well certainly the words getting out. This event here is just as big as it's ever been (mumbles). Use to be a little summit, now it's grown. There's a lot of interest. >> It's very exciting for me. I've been to reinvent now twice. And this is just so delightful to see so many people from government from the U.S. from internationally here to learn about the cloud share their stories. It's really inspirational to see what's possible. >> That's a testament to Teresa Carlson. Who was just years ago knocking on doors. That was before cloud was cloud. Now it's just come a long way. Congratulations to the whole team. >> Thank you. It's really to delightful to see. And I can't wait to see what's in store for next year and after that. >> We still got a little bit here to go John Don't kick us out. John Stephenson, Public Policy at AWS. Thanks for being with us we appreciate that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. With John Furrier, I'm John Walls and we'll be back with more here on the CUBE from Washington D.C. right after this. (upbeat music)

(theCUBE theme music) >> Narrator: Live from Washington D.C. It's theCUBE, covering AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services and its partner ecosystem. >> Welcome back here to the show floor at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. Along with John Furrier, I'm John Walls. Glad to have you here on theCUBE as we continue our coverage here live from the nation's capital. Joining us now from Enlighten IT Consulting is John Eubank IV, Director of Program Management Office. John, thanks for joining us here on theCUBE, a CUBE rookie, I believe, is that correct? >> Yes, sir, yeah, thanks for the invite. >> Nice to break the maiden, good to have you aboard here. First off, tell us a little bit about your consulting firm for our viewers at home, to give an idea about your frame and why you're here at AWS. >> Absolutely, so we're a big data consulting company focused on cyber security solutions for the DOD IC community. What we jumped into about three years ago was a partnership with AWS. And seeing, just the volume, the velocity of data coming out of the DOD, that those on-premise server farms could not keep up, could not support it with the power, space and cooling needs. So we partnered with AWS and over the last three years we've been migrating our customers up to GovCloud, specifically. >> So what are you doing then for DOD specifically, then? When you said you solve problems, right? They've got reams and reams of data, trying to help them manage that process a little bit better, but, you know, drill down a little bit more specifically what you're doing for DOD. >> Absolutely, so we developed a proprietary technology called the Rapid Analytic Deployment and Management Framework, RADMF, it's available on RADMF.com, R A D M F dot com. >> John Walls: True marketer. >> Yeah, true marketer at heart. So that's our, sort of governance framework for DOD applications that want to move to the cloud. It automates the deployment process to get 'em out of their existing systems up to the cloud. One of the real problems inside the DOD that we've encountered is the disparate data sets to enable effective analytics when it comes to cyber security solutions. So, I like to think back to the day one conversation about, sort of the data swamp, not the data lake. That's exactly what we have inside the DOD. There's so many home-built sensors, paired with COT sensors, that it's created this absolute mess, or nightmare of data. That swamp needs to be drained. It needs to be, sort of refined in a way that we can call it a data lake, something understandable that people can-- >> I hate the term data lake, I, you've been listening, I, John knows I hate the term data lake. Love the term data swamp, because it illustrates exactly that, there is, if you don't watch the data, and don't share it, it's just stagnant, and it turns into a swamp. And I think, this is a huge issue. >> John Eubank IV: Absolutely correct. >> So I want you to just double down on that, just give some color. Is it the volume of the data, is it the lack of sharing, both? (laughs) >> It's really every, it's everything under the sun, there's, you know, sharing issues all across the federal government right now and who can see what data, Navy doesn't want to share with Army, inside the IC-- >> John Furrier: Well that'll never happen. >> Agencies don't want to share with each other. (laughs) I think we're, we're breaking down those walls. We're seeing that, when it comes to cyber security, no one person can defend an entire nation. No one agency can defend an entire nation on their own. It has to be a collaborative solution. It has to be a team effort. Navy, Army, Air Force, IC, etc., have to work together, in tendem, in partnership, if we're ever going to just, defend our nation from cyber hackers. >> I want to ask you a philosophical question, because, you know, as someone who's been online all my life, computer science, you've seen, there's always the notion of trolling, the notion of online message boards, back in the day when I was running, is now main stream now, >> John Eubank IV: Right. >> I mean people trolling each other on Twitter, for crying out loud, main stream. So, the culture of digital has an ethos, and open source is a big driver on that cyber security, there's a huge ethos of sharing, and it's kind of an honor among practitioners. >> John Eubank IV: Mm-hmm. 'cause they know how big the threat is. How is that evolving? Because this seems to highlight, your point about sharing, that it's, the digital world's different than the analog world, and some of the practices that are getting traction can be doubled-down on. So everyone's trying to figure out what's, what should be double-down on, and what are the good practices from the bad? Can you just share some cultural... >> Well, I think you hit the nail on the head with the open source model there. That is the key right here. It's not even within the government we need to share. It's industry and government, in partnership, need to approach these problem sets together and work on 'em as one cohesive body. So, for example, our company, our platform, it's entirely an open source platform. It's government-owned solution. We don't sell, it's the big data platform, it's provided by DISA right now. We don't sell that product. It's available to any government agency that wants it for free. We have 1500 different software developers and engineers from across the government community that collaborate together to evolve that platform. And that's really the only way we're going to make a significan difference right now. >> That creativity that could come out of this new process that you're referring to, I'm just kind of thinking out loud here on theCUBE, is interesting because you think about all those people on Twitch. >> John Eubank IV: Uh-huh. >> 34 million, I think, a day or whatever the big number, it's a huge number. Those idle gamers could be actually collaborating on a core problem that could be fun. So if you look at a crowd sourcing model of attacking data, this is kind of a whole new mindset of culture. To me, this is the kind of doors that open up when you start thinking like this model. Because the bad guys are already ahead of the game. I mean, so, how do you, how do you guys talk about that, 'cause you guys have to kind of keep some data masked, and you have to kind of, maybe not expose everything. How do you balance that secretive nature of it, and yet opening it up? >> That's a question that the DHS is struggling with, sort of day in and day out right now. They're going through a couple different iterations of different efforts. There was the ESSA program, there's the Automated Indicator Sharing program going on right now with DHS and some of the IC partners of what do we share with industry, because we're recognizing as a government we can't defend this nation on our own. We need an industry partnership. How do we open that up to the general public of the United States to do that crowd sourced mentality. Threat hunting is a lot of fun if you know what you're doing, and if somebody will guide you down the path, it's an endless world and a need for threat analysts to study the data sets that are out there. Indicators of compromise point you in a general direction, but they're a wide-open direction, and... >> They're already playing, it's like lagging in a video game, they're, gamers are already ahead of, the hackers are already ahead of you. Interesting point, Berkeley, University of California at Berkeley has a new program, they call it the quote Navy Seals of cyber. It's an integrated computer science and engineering and Haas business school program. And it's a four-year degree specifically for a special forces kind of thinking. Interdisciplinary, highly data driven, computer science, engineering and business so they can understand, again, hackers run a business model. These are organized units. This is kind of what we're up against. >> Absolutely agree. >> John Furrier: What are your thoughts on that? You think that's the, the right direction, we need more of it? >> We need more of it, absolutely. DOD is moving in the same direction with the cyber protection teams or CPTs. They're beginning to do sort of the same formal training models for the soldiers. Unfortunately, right now a lot of the cyber protection teams are just scavenged resources from other branches of the military. So you have guys in EOD that are now transitioning into cyber, and they're going from diffusing bombs to diffusing cyber threats. It's a totally different scenario and use case, and it's a tough struggle to transition into that when your background was diffusing a bomb. >> And you brought up the industry collaboration, talking about private, you know, private sector and public sector. I know, you know, personal experience in the wireless space, there was a lot of desire to share information, but yet there was a congressional reluctance. >> John Eubank IV: Mm-hmm. >> To allow that. For different concerns. Some we thought were very unwarranted at the time. So how do you deal with that, because that's another influence in this, is that you might have willing parties, but you've got another body over here that might not be on board. >> I think we're going to start seeing more of a shift as private industry acknowledges their need for government support and that government collaboration, so data breaches like the Target breach and massive credit card breaches that, you know, these private industries cannot keep up with defending their own network. They need government supoort for defending very large corporations. Walmart, Target, Home Depot, the list goes on of breaches. >> Final question as we wrap up here, but what's the coolest tech that you're seeing that's enabling you to be successful, whether it's cool tech that you're looking at, you're kicking the tires on. From software to Amazon, hardware, what are you seeing that's out there that's really moving the needle and getting people motivated? >> So a surprising thing there, I'm going to say the Snowball Edge. And people go, it's just a data hard drive. Well, not really. It's way more than a data hard drive. So when you come to Amazon you think enterprise solutions, enterprise capabilities. What the Snowball Edge provides is a deployable unit that has processing, compute, storage, etc., onboard that you can take into your local networks. They're putting it so you can run any VM you want on the Snowball Edge. What we're doing is we're taking that inside DOD tactical spaces that don't have connections to the internet. We're able to do computation analytics on threats facing that local regional onclave using a hard drive. It's really cool technology that hasn't been fully explored, but that's uh, that's where we're-- >> You can tell you're excited about it. Your eyes light up, you got a big smile on your face. >> Drove the new Ferrari that came out. >> Yeah, right. >> When I saw it, I just jumped all in. >> John Walls: You loved it, right. >> So, three months ago... >> You knew right away, too. >> Right. >> John Furrier: The big wheel. >> John, thank you for being with us. I think they're going to kick us out of the place, John. >> Hey, they got to unplug us. We're going to go until they unplug us. >> Alright, John, again thanks for being with us. >> Well, thank you guys for your time, much appreciated. >> Thank you for joining us here from Washington, for all of us here at theCUBE, we appreciate you being along for the ride at AWS Public Sector Summit 2017. (theCUBE theme music)