>>From the Cube Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, bringing you data driven insights from the cube and etr. This is breaking analysis with Dave Ante. >>Have you ever been driving on the highway and traffic suddenly slows way down and then after a little while it picks up again and you're cruising along and you're thinking, Okay, hey, that was weird. But it's clear sailing now. Off we go, only to find out in a bit that the traffic is building up ahead again, forcing you to pump the brakes as the traffic pattern ebbs and flows well. Welcome to the Seesaw economy. The fed induced fire that prompted an unprecedented rally in tech is being purposefully extinguished now by that same fed. And virtually every sector of the tech industry is having to reset its expectations, including the cloud segment. Hello and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by etr. In this breaking analysis will review the implications of the earnings announcements from the big three cloud players, Amazon, Microsoft, and Google who announced this week. >>And we'll update you on our quarterly IAS forecast and share the latest from ETR with a focus on cloud computing. Now, before we get into the new data, we wanna review something we shared with you on October 14th, just a couple weeks back, this is sort of a, we told you it was coming slide. It's an XY graph that shows ET R'S proprietary net score methodology on the vertical axis. That's a measure of spending momentum, spending velocity, and an overlap or presence in the dataset that's on the X axis. That's really a measure of pervasiveness. In the survey, the table, you see that table insert there that shows Wiki Bond's Q2 estimates of IAS revenue for the big four hyperscalers with their year on year growth rates. Now we told you at the time, this is data from the July TW 22 ETR survey and the ETR hadn't released its October survey results at that time. >>This was just a couple weeks ago. And while we couldn't share the specific data from the October survey, we were able to get a glimpse and we depicted the slowdown that we saw in the October data with those dotted arrows kind of down into the right, we said at the time that we were seeing and across the board slowdown even for the big three cloud vendors. Now, fast forward to this past week and we saw earnings releases from Alphabet, Microsoft, and just last night Amazon. Now you may be thinking, okay, big deal. The ETR survey data didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know. But judging from the negative reaction in the stock market to these earnings announcements, the degree of softness surprised a lot of investors. Now, at the time we didn't update our forecast, it doesn't make sense for us to do that when we're that close to earning season. >>And now that all the big three ha with all the big four with the exception of Alibaba have announced we've, we've updated. And so here's that data. This chart lays out our view of the IS and PAs worldwide revenue. Basically it's cloud infrastructure with an attempt to exclude any SaaS revenue so we can make an apples to apples comparison across all the clouds. Now the reason that actual is in quotes is because Microsoft and Google don't report IAS revenue, but they do give us clues and kind of directional commentary, which we then triangulate with other data that we have from the channel and ETR surveys and just our own intelligence. Now the second column there after the vendor name shows our previous estimates for q3, and then next to that we show our actuals. Same with the growth rates. And then we round out the chart with that lighter blue color highlights, the full year estimates for revenue and growth. >>So the key takeaways are that we shaved about $4 billion in revenue and roughly 300 basis points of growth off of our full year estimates. AWS had a strong July but exited Q3 in the mid 20% growth rate year over year. So we're using that guidance, you know, for our Q4 estimates. Azure came in below our earlier estimates, but Google actually exceeded our expectations. Now the compression in the numbers is in our view of function of the macro demand climate, we've made every attempt to adjust for constant currency. So FX should not be a factor in this data, but it's sure you know that that ma the the, the currency effects are weighing on those companies income statements. And so look, this is the fundamental dynamic of a cloud model where you can dial down consumption when you need to and dial it up when you need to. >>Now you may be thinking that many big cloud customers have a committed level of spending in order to get better discounts. And that's true. But what's happening we think is they'll reallocate that spend toward, let's say for example, lower cost storage tiers or they may take advantage of better price performance processors like Graviton for example. That is a clear trend that we're seeing and smaller companies that were perhaps paying by the drink just on demand, they're moving to reserve instance models to lower their monthly bill. So instead of taking the easy way out and just spending more companies are reallocating their reserve capacity toward lower cost. So those sort of lower cost services, so they're spending time and effort optimizing to get more for, for less whereas, or get more for the same is really how we should, should, should phrase it. Whereas during the pandemic, many companies were, you know, they perhaps were not as focused on doing that because business was booming and they had a response. >>So they just, you know, spend more dial it up. So in general, as they say, customers are are doing more with, with the same. Now let's look at the growth dynamic and spend some time on that. I think this is important. This data shows worldwide quarterly revenue growth rates back to Q1 2019 for the big four. So a couple of interesting things. The data tells us during the pandemic, you saw both AWS and Azure, but the law of large numbers and actually accelerate growth. AWS especially saw progressively increasing growth rates throughout 2021 for each quarter. Now that trend, as you can see is reversed in 2022 for aws. Now we saw Azure come down a bit, but it's still in the low forties in terms of percentage growth. While Google actually saw an uptick in growth this last quarter for GCP by our estimates as GCP is becoming an increasingly large portion of Google's overall cloud business. >>Now, unfortunately Google Cloud continues to lose north of 850 million per quarter, whereas AWS and Azure are profitable cloud businesses even though Alibaba is suffering its woes from China. And we'll see how they come in when they report in mid-November. The overall hyperscale market grew at 32% in Q3 in terms of worldwide revenue. So the slowdown isn't due to the repatriation or competition from on-prem vendors in our view, it's a macro related trend. And cloud will continue to significantly outperform other sectors despite its massive size. You know, on the repatriation point, it just still doesn't show up in the data. The A 16 Z article from Sarah Wong and Martin Martin Kasa claiming that repatriation was inevitable as a means to lower cost of good sold for SaaS companies. You know, while that was thought provoking, it hasn't shown up in the numbers. And if you read the financial statements of both AWS and its partners like Snowflake and you dig into the, to the, to the quarterly reports, you'll see little notes and comments with their ongoing negotiations to lower cloud costs for customers. >>AWS and no doubt execs at Azure and GCP understand that the lifetime value of a customer is worth much more than near term gross margin. And you can expect the cloud vendors to strike a balance between profitability, near term profitability anyway and customer attention. Now, even though Google Cloud platform saw accelerated growth, we need to put that in context for you. So GCP, by our estimate, has now crossed over the $3 billion for quarter market actually did so last quarter, but its growth rate accelerated to 42% this quarter. And so that's a good sign in our view. But let's do a quick little comparison with when AWS and Azure crossed the $3 billion mark and compare their growth rates at the time. So if you go back to to Q2 2016, as we're showing in this chart, that's around the time that AWS hit 3 billion per quarter and at the same time was growing at 58%. >>Azure by our estimates crossed that mark in Q4 2018 and at that time was growing at 67%. Again, compare that to Google's 42%. So one would expect Google's growth rate would be higher than its competitors at this point in the MO in the maturity of its cloud, which it's, you know, it's really not when you compared to to Azure. I mean they're kind of con, you know, comparable now but today, but, but you'll go back, you know, to that $3 billion mark. But more so looking at history, you'd like to see its growth rate at this point of a maturity model at least over 50%, which we don't believe it is. And one other point on this topic, you know, my business friend Matt Baker from Dell often says it's not a zero sum game, meaning there's plenty of opportunity exists to build value on top of hyperscalers. >>And I would totally agree it's not a dollar for dollar swap if you can continue to innovate. But history will show that the first company in makes the most money. Number two can do really well and number three tends to break even. Now maybe cloud is different because you have Microsoft software estate and the power behind that and that's driving its IAS business and Google ads are funding technology buildouts for, for for Google and gcp. So you know, we'll see how that plays out. But right now by this one measurement, Google is four years behind Microsoft in six years behind aws. Now to the point that cloud will continue to outpace other markets, let's, let's break this down a bit in spending terms and see why this claim holds water. This is data from ET r's latest October survey that shows the granularity of its net score or spending velocity metric. >>The lime green is new adoptions, so they're adding the platform, the forest green is spending more 6% or more. The gray bars spending is flat plus or minus, you know, 5%. The pinkish colors represent spending less down 6% or worse. And the bright red shows defections or churn of the platform. You subtract the reds from the greens and you get what's called net score, which is that blue dot that you can see on each of the bars. So what you see in the table insert is that all three have net scores above 40%, which is a highly elevated measure. Microsoft's net scores above 60% AWS well into the fifties and GCP in the mid forties. So all good. Now what's happening with all three is more customers are keep keeping their spending flat. So a higher percentage of customers are saying, our spending is now flat than it was in previous quarters and that's what's accounting for the compression. >>But the churn of all three, even gcp, which we reported, you know, last quarter from last quarter survey was was five x. The other two is actually very low in the single digits. So that might have been an anomaly. So that's a very good sign in our view. You know, again, customers aren't repatriating in droves, it's just not a trend that we would bet on, maybe makes for a FUD or you know, good marketing head, but it's just not a big deal. And you can't help but be impressed with both Microsoft and AWS's performance in the survey. And as we mentioned before, these companies aren't going to give up customers to try and preserve a little bit of gross margin. They'll do what it takes to keep people on their platforms cuz they'll make up for it over time with added services and improved offerings. >>Now, once these companies acquire a customer, they'll be very aggressive about keeping them. So customers take note, you have negotiating leverage, so use it. Okay, let's look at another cut at the cloud market from the ETR data set. Here's the two dimensional view, again, it's back, it's one of our favorites. Net score or spending momentum plotted against presence. And the data set, that's the x axis net score on the, on the vertical axis, this is a view of et r's cloud computing sector sector. You can see we put that magic 40% dotted red line in the table showing and, and then that the table inserts shows how the data are plotted with net score against presence. I e n in the survey, notably only the big three are above the 40% line of the names that we're showing here. The oth there, there are others. >>I mean if you put Snowflake on there, it'd be higher than any of these names, but we'll dig into that name in a later breaking analysis episode. Now this is just another way of quantifying the dominance of AWS and Azure, not only relative to Google, but the other cloud platforms out there. So we've, we've taken the opportunity here to plot IBM and Oracle, which both own a public cloud. Their performance is largely a reflection of them migrating their install bases to their respective public clouds and or hybrid clouds. And you know, that's fine, they're in the game. That's a point that we've made, you know, a number of times they're able to make it through the cloud, not whole and they at least have one, but they simply don't have the business momentum of AWS and Azure, which is actually quite impressive because AWS and Azure are now as large or larger than IBM and Oracle. >>And to show this type of continued growth that that that Azure and AWS show at their size is quite remarkable and customers are starting to recognize the viability of on-prem hi, you know, hybrid clouds like HPE GreenLake and Dell's apex. You know, you may say, well that's not cloud, but if the customer thinks it is and it was reporting in the survey that it is, we're gonna continue to report this view. You know, I don't know what's happening with H P E, They had a big down tick this quarter and I, and I don't read too much into that because their end is still pretty small at 53. So big fluctuations are not uncommon with those types of smaller ends, but it's over 50. So, you know, we did notice a a a negative within a giant public and private sector, which is often a, a bellwether giant public private is big public companies and large private companies like, like a Mars for example. >>So it, you know, it looks like for HPE it could be an outlier. We saw within the Fortune 1000 HPE E'S cloud looked actually really good and it had good spending momentum in that sector. When you di dig into the industry data within ETR dataset, obviously we're not showing that here, but we'll continue to monitor that. Okay, so where's this Leave us. Well look, this is really a tactical story of currency and macro headwinds as you can see. You know, we've laid out some of the points on this slide. The action in the stock market today, which is Friday after some of the soft earnings reports is really robust. You know, we'll see how it ends up in the day. So maybe this is a sign that the worst is over, but we don't think so. The visibility from tech companies is murky right now as most are guiding down, which indicates that their conservative outlook last quarter was still too optimistic. >>But as it relates to cloud, that platform is not going anywhere anytime soon. Sure, there are potential disruptors on the horizon, especially at the edge, but we're still a long ways off from, from the possibility that a new economic model emerges from the edge to disrupt the cloud and the opportunities in the cloud remain strong. I mean, what other path is there? Really private cloud. It was kind of a bandaid until the on-prem guys could get their a as a service models rolled out, which is just now happening. The hybrid thing is real, but it's, you know, defensive for the incumbents until they can get their super cloud investments going. Super cloud implying, capturing value above the hyperscaler CapEx, you know, call it what you want multi what multi-cloud should have been, the metacloud, the Uber cloud, whatever you like. But there are opportunities to play offense and that's clearly happening in the cloud ecosystem with the likes of Snowflake, Mongo, Hashi Corp. >>Hammer Spaces is a startup in this area. Aviatrix, CrowdStrike, Zeke Scaler, Okta, many, many more. And even the projects we see coming out of enterprise players like Dell, like with Project Alpine and what Pure Storage is doing along with a number of other of the backup vendors. So Q4 should be really interesting, but the real story is the investments that that companies are making now to leverage the cloud for digital transformations will be paying off down the road. This is not 1999. We had, you know, May might have had some good ideas and admittedly at a lot of bad ones too, but you didn't have the infrastructure to service customers at a low enough cost like you do today. The cloud is that infrastructure and so far it's been transformative, but it's likely the best is yet to come. Okay, let's call this a rap. >>Many thanks to Alex Morrison who does production and manages the podcast. Also Can Schiffman is our newest edition to the Boston Studio. Kristin Martin and Cheryl Knight helped get the word out on social media and in our newsletters. And Rob Ho is our editor in chief over@siliconangle.com, who does some wonderful editing for us. Thank you. Remember, all these episodes are available as podcasts. Wherever you listen, just search breaking analysis podcast. I publish each week on wiki bond.com at silicon angle.com. And you can email me at David dot valante@siliconangle.com or DM me at Dante or comment on my LinkedIn posts. And please do checkout etr.ai. They got the best survey data in the enterprise tech business. This is Dave Valante for the Cube Insights powered by etr. Thanks for watching and we'll see you next time on breaking analysis.

>>The Cube presents UI Path Forward five. Brought to you by UI Path. >>Welcome back to The Cube's, continuous coverage with day two of UI Path forward. Five. My name is Dave Ante. I'm here with my co-host Dave Nicholson. And you are watching The Cube. It's all about the robots, the automations, the transformations and beyond. Audi Gana is here. She's group executive at Vodacom and Niva is back. She's senior director of telecommunications industry for UiPath. Ladies, welcome to the Cube. >>I thank you very much. >>So Vodacom a leading telco in in Africa across the continent. Tell us more about the company. >>The company is a traditionally telecommunications company, but our vision 2025 is first to transition from being a telco to a technology company. So you'll find that a lot of the use cases that we've actually started embarking on, combined the combination of telco and FinTech. And we've got a lot of RPA bot also supporting the FinTech platform, which is quite a major step in our strategy. >>So, you know, it's interesting Mark Andreessen's famous comment, Every company's a software company. I like to think every company's a technology company, technology driven. So what does that actually mean for you? Is it like a split brain between FinTech? Cuz it's pretty clear that FinTech is always a highly, you know, technology oriented and telecom. Are they sort of together driving a, a technology business? How does that >>Work? It's, it's a, it's a converge use of the technology to add value to the customer. So what we wanna do is to get to the point where we have converged services where the Telecommunicate, cuz at the end of the day in the African market, you'll find that there's a lot of markets that are unbanked. So you find that a cell phone is a means of communication and a a mobile platform for the users. So it's a natural progression for our company to actually play in both spaces. And I think one of the things I find quite interesting is the levels of trust that a lot of citizens have in our financial platform. In that even some of the governments are paying social grants using the platform. And so it almost becomes, without the phones a lot of people cannot function type of scenario. >>Nevas is your role a global role? >>Yes, it is a global role. >>Okay. So it's interesting cause you're I think based down under, right? I am. Is that true? Okay. Obviously spent some time in, in, in the African continent. How are you, what are you seeing in terms of the, the trends in, in telecommunications that, and are you noticing there's gotta be differences across different regions? You know, a lot of times you hear, oh no, there's really kind of a global world out and I know it is, but telco seems to be one of the industries that has some uniqueness within the different breaches. What are you seeing? >>Look, we are privileged to work with more than 200 telecoms around the world. But clearly from a technology perspective, there are some regions that have embraced technology sooner than the others, particularly when it comes to automation. Now we do have use cases with all of them that we are, you know, the 200 we are working with. But the extent to which they become strategic partners, Varie is, you know, what I find is in, in the US we are doing a lot in the customer experience space with the telecoms in aj it's more back of house. And with telecoms like Vodacom, it's really strategic. You know, automation is being applied practically in every facet of work. And you know, sometimes that could be because the demand is just so great for connectivity, you know, at times there's a skills gap, but it does vary. But what's reassuring is that there is a journey and you know, at this event what I have seen is telecoms wanting to learn from other telecoms. And I must say Artie has been in huge demand. We did about 22 meetings yesterday with others wanting to know, which again is that strategic trend. >>Artie, my understanding is you've been at this for a while, this automation journey for quite some time and p i pass. Interesting. I mean it's a company that's founded in 2005 and kind of did sort of its own thing for a long time and then realized it had lightning in a bottle Yeah. For a mid last decade. But my understanding is you've seen it all. You've seen the, the legacy platforms. And so tell me about your personal journey with automation and then the companies. >>Okay, so there's the automation pre rpa, which was strangely enough, I come from banking, got a finance degree, did automated ations in one of the bigger banks. And somehow I transitioned. And I mean from a history perspective, the one of the previous platforms, which was the biggest one at the time, that's where I got to learn about rpa. And then there's another vendor that we then use in another company. So this is almost my third vendor that I'm experiencing in the RPA space. Having joined RPA space in 2015, apparently I'm kind of a veteran, >>So, So what are you seeing is what's the difference between, I mean let's call UI path, that was sort of a modern focus on simple to deploy. That's really how they get started when I first found them. How do you compare what UiPath has? And there are others, there are other modern platforms to sort of the legacy platforms. What's the >>Difference? I think it's the diversity and the applicability of the technology across multiple industries is something that still amazes me up until today. Because the kind of customers I've been meeting today, I, I would not, I met a guy who owns an ice cream company and I'm like, where would automation come in here? But he's actually quite a big customer of, of UiPath, you know. So I think that's one thing I appreciate. I think the ease of use, it has actually allowed for a lot of people to be part of the digital transformation. I think in the his, in the past technology has been seen as something that was a bit elite and that you needed to have X amount of skills and level of education. Whereas the RPA industry has almost bridged that gap in actually bringing along as many people in the journey in terms of digital transformation. And the fourth industrial revolution is now starting to become more inclusive >>Horizontal across industries. >>Yeah. >>So Vodacom headquartered in South Africa. Okay. But presence throughout the continent. Yes. I imagine that various geographies have various twists and quirks to them and different needs. But as a general premise, the African continent has led the rest of the world in terms of embracing these little mobile devices for the most mission. Critical from a personal perspective things, right? Yeah. So if you, if you're already trusting all of your finances and even interaction with your government from a financial perspective. Yeah. When you say technology platform technology is moving forward, what's more critical from that? Or how do you, how do you, how do you branch off from that? What are some of the other things that you can share with us that you're looking towards in the future that may, that that may trickle over here eventually? >>So I think what one of the things we started playing around with quite well is actually the convergence of machine learning, AI and rpa. You would find that a lot of research will tell you that this is the future of the automation and for us, we are actually living the future in that we have civil use cases that are actually extracting a lot of business value. Where we've realized that RPA in of itself, and this is obviously oversimplifying the technology is almost the unlimited hands on keyboards that you could ever have, right? And then machine learning and AI almost the becomes the unlimited brains. So when you then combine the tool, you almost have this strong technology that can revolutionize how we operate and service our customers. >>Well how do, how does that translate? Can you translate that into a user experience at this point? So I mean, we're talking about people who they, they have a motor license, they don't have a desktop computer at home. Yeah. This is their portal into the world. >>So you find that if you're speaking pure telco, and I'm obviously over simplifying there some nowhere an engineer, right? But I think at, at a very simplified level, there's a lot of legacy technology that is used in the telco space and you'll find that because of that, there's a lot of lack of integration. And you'll find that the reasons why a lot of customers call corners is because there's poor integration in a lot of instances. And it's, it's, it's, it's ad hoc. So it's not as if the system is failed completely. So what we've now done is to try and see how do we use machine learning to pick up on those anomalies on the network, right? And because each time something breaks, right, it's almost a fixed way to fix it and therefore the machine learning picking up there normally almost the hands over to the RPA bot to fix the problem within the network element. But that means is that from a customer experience perspective, instead of you actually realizing there's a problem, we've fixed it before you even know that there's a problem. And therefore, and as you can imagine, it means that you then call the course into less because now you don't have the reason to complain because we've proactively identified the problem and we proactively use RPA then to fix it. So we almost have the almost like a self-healing element in within the, the, the RPA AI space. >>You know, I think of, we don't talk about the data, we haven't talked about the data much this week. I think in many respects this industry is, is data industry. Our automation is all about what you can do with the data. You said unlimited hands, unlimited brains. Cuz to me you have unlimited data and a lot of times you just can't handle it. Yeah. So what's the data angle on all this? >>So firstly, I know a lot of people will say data is the new oil. No, >>Right? So I would never >>Say that. I always though, I think I always ask people if I give you a bucket of brain crude oil, right? What are you gonna do with it? Right? Right. And similar to data, right? So I want to almost equate data to that crude oil element, but if you don't know how to refine it, process it, get it to be reliable, it's very useless in of its natural sense. So I think one of the things we've realized is that leveraging of the analogy of the, the machine learning in the brain, if you are in the sales space, you forever trying to push new sales, right? And then chances are when a customer leaves you, you are almost in a reactor state. So, and I imagine a world where you could proactively identify a customer with the propensity to leave your company because a lot of customers don't just, they are situations where they'll be walking down the street competitor calls them, they leave, not because they were unhappy, but a lot of customers actually had several engagements with us that were not pleasant, whatever the definition is. >>So we then saw there was almost five types of attributes that resulted in customers leaving us. So what then that said was imagine if you are an account manager, right? And you got told UiPath P two I limited has experienced 1, 2, 3, 4. Right? Actually, please go engage with them because something is happening. It means that as an account manager, you are then equipped to have a meaningful engagement with the customer because you're saying, hi UiPath, I see you've had X amount of job calls and you've had x amount of complaints in our call center. What is happening is it could be, could be your network, maybe the tower where you are, do you, And then the conversation becomes so meaningful. And I think even during covid what we found is lot of customers started using less of our data, not because they were unhappy, but it became an affordability thing, right? >>Because this is a thousands and thousands of, of data elements and pieces around Yeah. About customer transactions. There's no way one human would be able to go through all of the data and make me meaningful decisions out of it. So we then found that some customers were complaining about affordability. So we then built another model that says if an account manager is talking to a customer and they're struggling from an affordability perspective, what's the next best offer you can make to your customer while you're engaging? And then if in, if, if now your UiPath takes up that offer, then you'd find that the bot does the post engagement provisioning on the system. Because now if you then said, I've only, I can only afford 10 lines, but only pay 10 gigs, but not 10 lines and 20 gigs, that is at least better than us losing the customer. >>Yeah. Right? And we offering them almost a downward migration type of situation. Then the bot does that on the system. So you would find that we almost playing in the space of a human, human centered, intelligent automation where machine learning becomes the brain, the person is amplified in how they operate at the customer. And then the RPA bot becomes the hands that executes on that. And as the account manager you focusing on engagement and convincing, which is really what people are great and selling as opposed to going through all of the pro cause VOCA is a lot of products. So as opposed to having a person going through the products and trying to find the best product for you, you know, so we, we are using machine learning to assist the >>Humans. I I mean in every, every interaction is consistent in that case. I know I sometimes have to call three or four times to find a professional that knows enough that can help me. Yes. Such a frustrating thing as a consumer. So you are, are you, you're attacking churn with automation. So we haven't even talked about how you guys are working together, your journey and all that stuff, but, but how are you guys working here? What are you, what are you doing? You know, in addition to what you just described with with ui. iPad? >>So I think my portfolio's quite wide. So I am, my team is in every single vertical in the organization from customer care to the consumer enterprise business units to finance technology, network compliance. And we do all of this in about six countries, right? So one of the things we've actually realized is that if we are looking at customer service, we wanted to understand why do customers call us? And I think I came from a point of ignorance because I'm not from telco, so I actually realized that if we're talking billing and finance revenue assurance, customers call us because we build them arly. But technically speaking it's our systems that there's something that resulted in the customer calling us. So why do we not know about our own systems? Why are we waiting for the customers to call us? And literally those are the questions I was asking cuz I felt like why are we, why are we waiting for the customers to call us? >>So we then then found a way to try and see within the billing systems where do the breakages happen, right? So that we fix them before the customer has to call us again. So then again from a billing perspective, it means that cuz it the billing element can come in two ways where we are giving you a service and not charging you for it. We then have revenue leakage or we, you are consuming something and we are overcharging you. Then you call us and say, Whatcom is stealing my data. Yeah, you're right out there. I promise you nobody wakes up in the morning and wants to take one gig of your data. So it almost becomes a day integrity initiative that results in good customer service but then result in eradication of course. As opposed to us waiting for customers to tell us what the problem is and trying to help them fast. Cuz that's generally always been what I've picked up the energy around customer service. How do we help you fast? I'm saying why must you call us when our systems had fail that? So we almost trying to see how do we use the technology internally to give customers a better experience and then also have the financial benefits that we are now starting to see happening in the, >>What's the scope of, of your like how many automations, how many bots? Can you give us a sense >>Of this? So right now I think we over on with all of the four, five countries that we are in, we over 400 bots. Wow. Okay. So we started in 2004 years ago, this is my fourth year in Voca. We, and we are not using just one product with UiPath. It became a platform because as we became across more kinds of problems, I think what I've appreciated about part is how we've actually created a partnership. Instead of them trying to sell me products for the sake of consuming products, it became a, this is my problem, right? And then somehow they would whip out the product that solves my problem type of thing. So it became a ecosystem of solutions that >>You must love hanging out with Artie. >>I absolutely do and love, you know, I've spent a career in telecommunications myself and you know, the best days were when you could deliver an outstanding customer experience. And as you can see from what Artie has achieved when you were more proactive and predictive, you can serve your customers so much more effectively and that just lift the morale of the team because we all, you know, have this purpose in doing our jobs. But this is automation and AI built into every part of that customer journey. So end to end, you know, the customer's much happier. You know there's a problem before the customer knows you can solve the problem in most cases before they even know. And that's just what we are all in business to do to make things better. >>Great story. Thank you so much for sharing. Appreciate coming back >>In the queue. Thank you very much. Thank >>You. Thank you for watching. Keep it right there. Don't forget, go to silicon angle.com, all the news, go to the cube.net. You'll see me all these videos are available on demand as well as the other events that we do. Dave VTE for Dave Nicholson. Keep it right there. Right back at forward five UI.

(soft intro music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of VeeamON 2022. Dave Vellante with David Nicholson. Brian Schwarz is here. We're going to stay on cloud. He's the director of product management at Google Cloud. The world's biggest cloud, I contend. Brian, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having me. Super excited to be here. >> Long time infrastructure as a service background, worked at Pure, worked at Cisco, Silicon Valley guy, techie. So we're going to get into it here. >> I love it. >> I was saying before, off camera. We used to go to Google Cloud Next every year. It was an awesome show. Guys built a big set for us. You joined, right as the pandemic hit. So we've been out of touch a little bit. It's hard to... You know, you got one eye on the virtual event, but give us the update on Google Cloud. What's happening generally and specifically within storage? >> Yeah. So obviously the Cloud got a big boost during the pandemic because a lot of work went online. You know, more things kind of being digitally transformed as people keep trying to innovate. So obviously the growth of Google Cloud, has got a big tailwind to it. So business has been really good, lots of R&D investment. We obviously have an incredible set of technology already but still huge investments in new technologies that we've been bringing out over the past couple of years. It's great to get back out to events to talk to people about 'em. Been a little hard the last couple of years to give people some of the insights. When I think about storage, huge investments, one of the things that some people know but I think it's probably underappreciated is we use the same infrastructure for Google Cloud that is used for Google consumer products. So Search and Photos and all the public kind of things that most people are familiar with, Maps, et cetera. Same infrastructure at the same time is also used for Google Cloud. So we just have this tremendous capability of infrastructure. Google's got nine products that have a billion users most of which many people know. So we're pretty good at storage pretty good at compute, pretty good at networking. Obviously a lot of that kind of shines through on Google Cloud for enterprises to bring their applications, lift and shift and/or modernize, build new stuff in the Cloud with containers and things like that. >> Yeah, hence my contention that Google has the biggest cloud in the world, like I said before. Doesn't have the most IS revenue 'cause that's a different business. You can't comment, but I've got Google Cloud running at $12 billion a year run rate. So a lot of times people go, "Oh yeah, Google they're third place going for the bronze." But that is a huge business. There aren't a lot of 10, $12 billion infrastructure companies. >> In a rapidly growing market. >> And if you do some back of napkin math, whatever, give me 10, 15, let's call it 15% of that, to storage. You've got a big storage business. I know you can't tell us how big, but it's big. And if you add in all the stuff that's not in GCP, you do a lot of storage. So you know storage, you understand the technology. So what is the state of technology? You have a background in Cisco, nearly a networking company, they used to do some storage stuff sort of on the side. We used to say they're going to buy NetApp, of course that never happened. That would've made no sense. Pure Storage, obviously knows storage, but they were a disk array company essentially. Cloud storage, what's different about it? What's different in the technology? How does Google think about it? >> You know, I always like to tell people there's some things that are the same and familiar to you, and there's some things that are different. If I start with some of the differences, object storage in the Cloud, like just fundamentally different. Object storage on-prem, it's been around for a while, often used as kind of like a third tier of storage, maybe a backup target, compliance, something like that. In the cloud, object storage is Tier one storage. Public reference for us, Spotify, okay, use object storage for all the songs out there. And increasingly we see a lot of growth in-- >> Well, how are you defining Tier one storage in that regard? Again, are you thinking streaming service? Okay. Fine. Transactional? >> Spotify goes down and I'm pissed. >> Yeah. This is true. (Dave laughing) >> Not just you, maybe a few million other people too. One is importance, business importance. Tier one applications like critical to the business, like business down type stuff. But even if you look at it for performance, for capabilities, object storage in the cloud, it's a different thing than it was. >> Because of the architecture that you're deploying? >> Yeah. And the applications that we see running on it. Obviously, a huge growth in our business in AI and analytics. Obviously, Google's pretty well known in both spaces, BigQuery, obviously on the analytics side, big massive data warehouses and obviously-- >> Gets very high marks from customers. >> Yeah, very well regarded, super successful, super popular with our customers in Google Cloud. And then obviously AI as well. A lot of AI is about getting structure from unstructured data. Autonomous vehicles getting pictures and videos around the world. Speech recognition, audio is a fundamentally analog signal. You're trying to train computers to basically deal with analog things and it's all stored in object storage, machine learning on top of it, creating all the insights, and frankly things that computers can deal with. Getting structure out of the unstructured data. So you just see performance capabilities, importance as it's really a Tier one storage, much like file and block is where have kind of always been. >> Depending on, right, the importance. Because I mean, it's a fair question, right? Because we're used to thinking, "Oh, you're running your Oracle transaction database on block storage." That's Tier one. But Spotify's pretty important business. And again, on BigQuery, it is a cloud-native born in the cloud database, a lot of the cloud databases aren't, right? And that's one of the reasons why BigQuery is-- >> Google's really had a lot of success taking technologies that were built for some of the consumer services that we build and turning them into cloud-native Google Cloud. Like HDFS, who we were talking about, open source technologies came originally from the Google file system. Now we have a new version of it that we run internally called Colossus, incredible technologies that are cloud scale technologies that you can use to build things like Google Cloud storage. >> I remember one of the early Hadoop worlds, I was talking to a Google engineer and saying, "Well, wow, that's so cool that Hadoop came. You guys were the main spring of that." He goes, "Oh, we're way past Hadoop now." So this is early days of Hadoop (laughs) >> It's funny whenever Google says consumer services, usually consumer indicates just for me. But no, a consumer service for Google is at a scale that almost no business needs at a point in time. So you're not taking something and scaling it up-- >> Yeah. They're Tier one services-- for sure. >> Exactly. You're more often pairing it down so that a fortune 10 company can (laughs) leverage it. >> So let's dig into data protection in the Cloud, disaster recovery in the Cloud, Ransomware protection and then let's get into why Google. Maybe you could give us the trends that you're seeing, how you guys approach it, and why Google. >> Yeah. One of the things I always tell people, there's certain best practices and principles from on-prem that are just still applicable in the Cloud. And one of 'em is just fundamentals around recovery point objective and recovery time objective. You should know, for your apps, what you need, you should tier your apps, get best practice around them and think about those in the Cloud as well. The concept of RPO and RTO don't just magically go away just 'cause you're running in the Cloud. You should think about these things. And it's one of the reasons we're here at the VeeamON event. It's important, obviously, they have a tremendous skill in technology, but helping customers implement the right RPO and RTO for their different applications. And they also help do that in Google Cloud. So we have a great partnership with them, two main offerings that they offer in Google. One is integration for their on-prem things to use, basically Google as a backup target or DR target and then cloud-native backups they have some technologies, Veeam backup for Google. And obviously they also bought Kasten a while ago. 'Cause they also got excited about the container trend and obviously great technologies for those customers to use those in Google Cloud as well. >> So RPO and RTO is kind of IT terms, right? But we think of them as sort of the business requirement. Here's the business language. How much data are you willing to lose? And the business person says, "What? I don't want to lose any data." Oh, how big's your budget, right? Oh, okay. That's RPO. RTO is how fast you want to get it back? "How fast do you want to get it back if there's an outage?" "Instantly." "How much money do you want to spend on that?" "Oh." Okay. And then your application value will determine that. Okay. So that's what RPO and RTO is for those who you may not know that. Sometimes we get into the acronym too much. Okay. Why Google Cloud? >> Yeah. When I think about some of the infrastructure Google has and like why does it matter to a customer of Google Cloud? The first couple things I usually talk about is networking and storage. Compute's awesome, we can talk about containers and Kubernetes in a little bit, but if you just think about core infrastructure, networking, Google's got one of the biggest networks in the world, obviously to service all these consumer applications. Two things that I often tell people about the Google network, one, just tremendous backbone bandwidth across the regions. One of the things to think about with data protection, it's a large data set. When you're going to do recoveries, you're pushing lots of terabytes often and big pipes matter. Like it helps you hit the right recovery time objective 'cause you, "I want to do a restore across the country." You need good networks. And obviously Google has a tremendous network. I think we have like 20 subsea cables that we've built underneath the the world's oceans to connect the world on the internet. >> Awesome. >> The other thing that I think is really underappreciated about the Google network is how quickly you get into it. One of the reasons all the consumer apps have such good response time is there's a local access point to get into the Google network somewhere close to you almost anywhere in the world. I'm sure you can find some obscure place where we don't have an access point, but look Search and Photos and Maps and Workspace, they all work so well because you get in the Google network fast, local access points and then we can control the quality of service. And that underlying substrate is the same substrate we have in Google Cloud. So the network is number one. Second one in storage, we have some really incredible capabilities in cloud storage, particularly around our dual region and multi-region buckets. The multi-region bucket, the way I describe it to people, it's a continent sized bucket. Single bucket name, strongly consistent that basically spans a continent. It's in some senses a little bit of the Nirvana of storage. No more DR failover, right? In a lot of places, traditionally on-prem but even other clouds, two buckets, failover, right? Orchestration, set up. Whenever you do orchestration, the DR is a lot more complicated. You got to do more fire drills, make sure it works. We have this capability to have a single name space that spans regions and it has strong read after write consistency, everything you drop into it you can read back immediately. >> Say I'm on the west coast and I have a little bit of an on-premises data center still and I'm using Veeam to back something up and I'm using storage within GCP. Trace out exactly what you mean by that in terms of a continent sized bucket. Updates going to the recovery volume, for lack of a better term, in GCP. Where is that physically? If I'm on the west coast, what does that look like? >> Two main options. It depends again on what your business goals are. First option is you pick a regional bucket, multiple zones in a Google Cloud region are going to store your data. It's resilient 'cause there's three zones in the region but it's all in one region. And then your second option is this multi-region bucket, where we're basically taking a set of the Google Cloud regions from around North America and storing your data basically in the continent, multiple copies of your data. And that's great because if you want to protect yourself from a regional outage, right? Earthquake, natural disaster of some sort, this multi-region, it basically gives you this DR protection for free and it's... Well, it's not free 'cause you have to pay for it of course, but it's a free from a failover perspective. Single name space, your app doesn't need to know. You restart the app on the east coast, same bucket name. >> Right. That's good. >> Read and write instantly out of the bucket. >> Cool. What are you doing with Veeam? >> So we have this great partnership, obviously for data protection and DR. And I really often segment the conversation into two pieces. One is for traditional on-prem customers who essentially want to use the Cloud as either a backup or a DR target. Traditional Veeam backup and replication supports Google Cloud targets. You can write to cloud storage. Some of these advantages I mentioned. Our archive storage, really cheap. We just actually lowered the price for archive storage quite significantly, roughly a third of what you find in some of the other competitive clouds if you look at the capabilities. Our archive class storage, fast recovery time, right? Fast latency, no hours to kind of rehydrate. >> Good. Storage in the cloud is overpriced. >> Yeah. >> It is. It is historically overpriced despite all the rhetoric. Good. I didn't know that. I'm glad to hear. >> Yeah. So the archive class store, so you essentially read and write into this bucket and restore. So it's often one of the things I joke with people about. I live in Silicon Valley, I still see the tape truck driving around. I really think people can really modernize these environments and use the cloud as a backup target. You get a copy of your data off-prem. >> Don't you guys use tape? >> Well, we don't talk a lot about-- >> No comment. Just checking. >> And just to be clear, when he says cloud storage is overpriced, he thinks that a postage stamp is overpriced, right? >> No. >> If I give you 50 cents, are you going to deliver a letter cross country? No. Cloud storage, it's not overpriced. >> Okay. (David laughing) We're going to have that conversation. I think it's historically overpriced. I think it could be more attractive, relative to the cost of the underlying technology. So good for you guys pushing prices. >> Yeah. So this archive class storage, is one great area. The second area we really work with Veeam is protecting cloud-native workloads. So increasingly customers are running workloads in the Cloud, they run VMware in the Cloud, they run normal VMs, they run containers. Veeam has two offerings in Google that essentially help customers protect that data, hit their RPO, RTO objectives. Another thing that is not different in the Cloud is the need to meet your compliance regulations, right? So having a product like Veeam that is easy to show back to your auditor, to your regulator to make sure that you have copies of your data, that you can hit an appropriate recovery time objective if you're in finance or healthcare, energy. So there's some really good Veeam technologies that work in Google Cloud to protect applications that actually run in Google Cloud all in. >> To your point about the tape truck I was kind of tongue in cheek, but I know you guys use tape. But the point is you shouldn't have to call the tape truck, right, you should go to Google and say, "Okay. I need my data back." Now having said that sometimes the highest bandwidth in the world is putting all this stuff on the truck. Is there an option for that? >> Again, it gets back to this networking capability that I mentioned. Yes. People do like to joke about, okay, trucks and trains and things can have a lot of bandwidth, big networks can push a lot of data around, obviously. >> And you got a big network. >> We got a huge network. So if you want to push... I've seen statistics. You can do terabits a second to a single Google Cloud storage bucket, super computing type performance inside Google Cloud, which from a scale perspective, whether it be network compute, these are things scale. If there's one thing that Google's really, really good at, it's really high scale. >> If your's companies can't afford to. >> Yeah, if you're that sensitive, avoid moving the data altogether. If you're that sensitive, have your recovery capability be in GCP. >> Yeah. Well, and again-- >> So that when you're recovering you're not having to move data. >> It's approximate to, yeah. That's the point. >> Recovering GCV, fail over your VMware cluster. >> Exactly. >> And use the cloud as a DR target. >> We got very little time but can you just give us a rundown of your portfolio in storage? >> Yeah. So storage, cloud storage for object storage got a bunch of regional options and classes of storage, like I mentioned, archive storage. Our first party offerings in the file area, our file store, basic enterprise and high scale, which is really for highly concurrent paralyzed applications. Persistent disk is our block storage offering. We also have a very high performance cash block storage offering and local SSDs. So that's the main kind of food groups of storage, block file object, increasingly doing a lot of work in data protection and in transfer and distributed cloud environments where the edge of the cloud is pushing outside the cloud regions themselves. But those are our products. Also, we spend a lot of time with our partners 'cause Google's really good at building and open sourcing and partnering at the same time hence with Veeam, obviously with file. We partner with NetApp and Dell and a bunch of folks. So there's a lot of partnerships we have that are important to us as well. >> Yeah. You know, we didn't get into Kubernetes, a great example of open source, Istio, Anthos, we didn't talk about the on-prem stuff. So Brian we'll have to have you back and chat about those things. >> I look forward to it. >> To quote my friend Matt baker, it's not a zero sum game out there and it's great to see Google pushing the technology. Thanks so much for coming on. All right. And thank you for watching. Keep it right there. Our next guest will be up shortly. This is Dave Vellante for Dave Nicholson. We're live at VeeamON 2022 and we'll be right back. (soft beats music)

(active upbeat music) >> Hello and welcome to theCUBE's presentation of Women in Tech global event, celebrating International Women's Day. I'm John furrier, host of theCUBE. Got a great guest, Cornelia Robinson, Who's the Senior Manager of the Global Inclusion and Outreach Programs at AWS, Amazon web services. Cornelia, welcome to this cube presentation. >> Thank you, so happy to be here, John. >> So you got a very interesting background, about involving in communities, you're in outreach and inclusion, which is awesome. International Women's Day is about global celebration. What's your role at AWS? Tell us more about what you do there and we'll get into some of the background and your experiences. >> All right. Thanks John. So, I lead a program that's called Inclusion and Outreach within AWS, specifically for our global data center community. So, AWS infrastructure is all over the world and we strive to make sure that in the places where we build and operate our cloud, that we're being good neighbors and also striving to be Earth's best employer. And so my role, it ultimately aligns both of those things into both inclusion and outreach. >> One of the things that we see with the cloud is it... There's always the talk, "Oh, democratization and..." If you see what cloud has done inside the global communities, it's been interesting. As regions expand, cloud computing has actually enabled kind of new things. You're seeing a lot more diversity inclusion, women events for instance, in Bahrain was one we saw a lot. Asia Pacific and all around the world you're seeing a lot more community because of the opportunities around the new applications and the new use cases is creating economic, but also empowering opportunities. And you've had a lot of experience in there and seeing some of these trends up close, what have you seen around this? Cause this is a new thing that cloud's enabling. This new revitalization inside these communities and areas. >> Yeah, cloud is definitely an enabler and it also enables people to scale, right? In ways that you wouldn't have been able to scale in the past. With AWS, it's like flip on a switch and all of a sudden you have access to so much compute power. It's actually incredible and it's exciting to be a part of this movement. >> How did you get started with AWS? >> I guess the way that I would describe it is tech kind of found me. I have an unusual background to be in tech. So, I graduated from law school and I was looking for a job and ended up in procurement. And then some years later, I got a call from AWS and I thought that it sounded like an interesting opportunity. I'd have an opportunity to build some new things and try some new things. And so, I said, "Hey, why not?" And that's how I ended up at AWS, starting out in our Northern Virginia office. And then I moved to Seattle for about five years. And now I'm back in the Northern Virginia area. >> So you're an Amazonian, true and true then. You've seen all the growth. But I think the thing about at Amazon is just that there's so much opportunities internally. A lot of people don't know that and I'd love to get your take on what it was like moving from procurement, which probably was very structured and good fit there, to Amazon Web Services, which was at that time just growing really fast and you built a global community program. So, kind of two worlds. Take us through that. >> Yeah, you're right. Procurement and community engagement are very different in many ways, but also very similar in many ways as well. With community engagement, we were completely starting from scratch with the idea of a structured community engagement program. Even though there was an element of community engagement that was happening in our infrastructure locations. So ultimately, the way that I ended up making that shift is that I was in an offsite, which is a team meeting, where people who have different functions come together and we were discussing opportunities that we had to just do a better job overall, because as you know, that's one thing that we're always looking at as Amazonians. It's how can we be better and show up better for our customers. We're always trying to start with our customers and work backwards to meet their needs. And so, one of the things that was identified in that discussion is community engagement. We had an opportunity to be even more engaged than we already were and to do it in a structured way. And so, I shot my hand up and said, "I like trying things, let me try this." And the rest is history. It's been about four years. >> And obviously you had to go through... (voice distortion noise drowns out other sounds) And all that procedure. Amazon is pretty open about ideas. Is that true? Is that a true thing? Is that what it's like there? People say that they'd like to try things and then if it works, they double down on it. Is that kind of how this went down? >> That's exactly how it went down, John. So, when I think about the process of working backwards, it's really something that never stops. And again, community engagement was all about working backwards from the needs of our customers. And in this instance, when I think about my customer, my customer is our community members. It's community members who live and work in our data center regions. And also our employees who are living and working and raising their families in those regions. >> What was the double down moment? When did you say, "Wow, this is working." When you developed this program. When were some of those moments, where you said, "Wow, this is actually working." And take us through some of those progressions. >> Some of the moments that really stand out to me are moments where I've been in the community and I say, "AWS." And someone says, "Oh, what's AWS?" And then you'll hear someone else chime in and explain, "Oh, AWS does all of these great things in the community." So, that actually happened. It was our very first AWS Girls' Tech Day, we'd scaled it from a small program into a global program. We went from having one in one year to having eight the next year around the world. And at this particular AWS Girls' Tech Day, someone did ask that question. It was a little girl. She was standing next to her sister. And when she asked me what AWS is, her sister looked at her and said, "You don't know what AWS is? "AWS does so much in our community "and AWS has this big space in my school." And she went on and on about how much she works with our employees and how excited she is about technology. And also those are those moments where you say, "You know what? This is working." And it's really working. >> That's awesome. What advice would you give people who are developing a community program? Because you're a pioneer, this has been a top priority for people now, in all companies and all groups, all tribes, as community is becoming a really important part of our fabric of society and business. People are sourcing information, they're sourcing relationships and jobs and in products. We are seeing a lot of organic community. What advice would you give folks who are developing a community program? >> There are few things. So, for me the biggest and most important thing is working backwards. So, start with your customer, who is your customer? It's really important to listen to them and to identify their needs. In this community engagement space, you have a lot of things being thrown at you all the time. You also have your own ideas and it's like, "Oh, it'd be really cool "if we did this thing." But is that really what the community needs? Is that really what the community wants? So, when I first started in this role, that was the most important thing and it continues to be the most important thing. I started picking up the phone, talking to people, going to a region, talking to folks who actually live and work in the community, understanding their perspectives, understanding their needs. There was a lot of discovery during that time. They were able to tell me things that I never would've even thought of. Never would've known, wouldn't have been able to consider because I wasn't a part of that community at the time. And so, that's the thing about becoming a community member, you got to be able to sit down and listen. And so, the principle of working backwards, it just applies so well in that instance. And so, that's the first thing. It's listening, understanding your customers, knowing who they are, and then trying to get as many perspectives as you can. And the next thing I would say is think big with your customers, right? And think big on behalf of your customers, but then from there, start somewhere. Because if you try to execute on the really big thing all at once, now, it may not go as well as you'd hoped it would. And you could actually diminish trust. So, we started working on just a couple of things based on customers needs. And as we were able to prove that they were successful and constantly get that feedback from customers saying, "Yeah, this works or that doesn't work." That's how we then eventually started to scale the program. >> Yeah. That trust angle, (voice distortion noise drowns out other sounds) because you look at trust. If you overplay your idea and it blows up, then no one's going to be motivated. Take little baby steps. I Love that insight. Great call out there. What about this Think Big Space you mentioned, and that other example about in the school, because I like this idea of having this Think Big Space that you pointed out. Is that just the place that you guys could provide? Or was that something that they did? The customer did or the community did? Can you share more about the Think Big Space? >> Yes. Our Think Big Spaces. So, the Think Big Space also started as a result of sitting down in a conference room with some teachers and administrators in a local school district, actually, here in the Northern Virginia area. And the teachers were talking about the fact that as teachers, there's a lot of emerging technology and it can be difficult to keep up with, what's next? What's current? What's next? What do we need? How do we help our students prepare for jobs that may not even exist right now? And so, it just seemed to align so well with our leadership principles within Amazon, learn and be curious, think big. And initially, they threw out the idea of a Tech Lab and we started working back and forth and thinking, "Well, how do we make this "a space where students would actually "come and learn and explore "and make things and get their hands dirty "and really be creative "and tie it back to technology "and just being really disruptive." And together, we came up with the idea of, "Hey, we got to teach students to think big." So, we started working on the first Think Big Space together. The school district actually hired an instructional lead and we worked with them to design curriculum and now there's a classroom, it's got eight Amazon's leadership principles on the walls and the students come in they are engineers for the day. And we've been able to scale that program globally to other locations. We've got Think Big Spaces in Ireland and Australia and India and of course in the US. And it's been really exciting to see how students get so excited when they're able to tinker and try new things. And they know that if they break something it's okay because we can come up with a way to fix it. And in the process of fixing it, they come up with something else. And we teach them about working backwards and it's just really fun. It's an exciting program to be a part of. And I've been excited just to see the growth and the way that our community members have benefited from it. >> It's really such an amazing program if you think about it because you're training builders and you're giving them a place to be disruptive, which is a natural part for young people to do and do it in a safe environment where they can build something and have fun doing it. It's amazing. >> That's right. So congratulations, that's a great program. Let me get into the theme here, on this International Women's Day around breaking the bias it's one of the core principles of this year's event globally and for International Women's Day, break the bias is the theme. Where do you see bias? and what would you like to see change? And what does change look like? >> Yeah. So, I would say, with the experience of setting up in communities, activities, and also collaborating with schools, what we see is that bias starts early. This is not something that people show up for work and all of a sudden there's all of this bias. There's bias in the way that young people and students are socialized. And so, you start to see things at an early age where girls may be encouraged to do things that are different. So, maybe girls are not encouraged to take on leadership roles or they're getting pushed into the arts. Of course, there's nothing wrong with arts, but we should be encouraging people to pursue certain areas based on interest and not on gender. And if we want to really break bias, we've got to think about the seeds that we plant. So, we've got to be really careful about what we say, how we nurture. It's about, "You can do this. "Yes. Try it, see." Not, "Oh, no, you shouldn't do this "because you're a girl." No, you're a girl and you belong here. You should be here. We need more people like you, you're going to do really big things. Like you've got to start telling students this at an early age, because all it takes, sometimes is one person to tell a student that they can't do something. And then if they believe them, then it can change their whole trajectory. And so, for me, when it comes to breaking the bias, it starts really early. It starts really, really early. >> Yeah. And I think... (voice distortion noise drowns out other sounds) Even like the Think Big program you mentioned, which sounds so exciting, it's just providing access. And I think having an open collaboration is key, but role models matter too. You want to see people in there too. I think this comes up a lot. what's your view on that? Because when you see people in positions, they're inspiring. And I think that also comes up a lot in these conversations. >> Yeah, definitely. When you see people in positions and you see people who look like you, you see yourself in that person and you say, "Hey, maybe if they can do it, "I can do it too." And so, it is important for us to have great strong role models who can show up and who can be there for students. That's one of the things that we try to do with our programming. So, as we develop programs like the Think Big Space, it's not just, "Okay, well we have a Think Big Space "and that's the end." It's we have a Think Big Space and our employees are coming into the Think Big Space. They're engaging with the student, they're volunteering, they're taking on causes in their community. And it provides that natural mentorship and ability for students to just see themselves. Because again, if you don't see yourself reflected, then you also may be receiving a message that says, "Okay. Well, that's not for me." >> Yeah. I was talking with a leader at AWS and she's in space area and we were talking about how the younger generation are nerd native, she called it. And they're born with inherent tech now. So, unlike when we were born, we had to kind of just found us, or we stumbled into it, or we got addicted somehow to tech. Now they got the tech around them. And I think this is an interesting new dynamic that could play well for the bias issue. And would love to get your reaction to that, as the generations come in, they're seeing all the world problems, they're seeing the digital transformation it's native to them. So, I wonder what your thoughts are. How we could be better at, I don't know, shaping the paths, pathways, multiple pathways. Seems to be many opportunities. So, if people are nerd native, how do we do that? So, we had a great riff on that. I'd love to get your reaction on that. >> Yeah. I think that we have to make sure that we are fostering this idea of playing outside of the box instead of in the box. It used to be with really traditional careers. If I want to be a doctor, I go to medical school, right. If I want to be a lawyer, I go to law school. If I want to work in tech, what do I do? Well, here's the thing, with tech, you're engaging in tech so much. I remember that when my nephew and nieces were little, before they could even read, they could do things on my phone. Like, I would get my phone and all of a sudden I had all of these game apps. How did they know how to do that? It's like you can't even read a word, but you can put all of these apps on my phone. They're engaging with technology. And so, how do we take that and nurture it and say, "Hey, just embrace it." Just put more technology in front of students, let them break things, let them fix things. I remember being a part of a panel with a woman who is an engineer and she said she became an engineer because she liked to break things though. So, she'd break her computer and she would get in trouble for it. She would be told, "Hey, figure out "how to put it back together." And so, if we can create more environments and encourage students that it's not about perfection, let's be inventive here. Let's try new things. Let's think outside the box. Think big, go find a solution. Go find an issue and work backwards from the issue that someone is having to come up with a solution that works and then get feedback. That process, that can start early. It doesn't have to be, once you're in a full fledged career, you can start that at any age. >> Cornelia, great insights. (voice distortion noise drowns out other sounds) My final question, what's new for you? What are you going to be up to? What's next? What are you going to break next? What are you going to do? >> So, what's new for me. I now lead Inclusion and Outreach within AWS for our data center community. And so, I'm back really to square one when it comes to doing a lot of listening, trying to understand. Understanding what the things are that are pain points within and outside of the organization. And I'll be working with employees and community members to continue iterating, and to continue solving problems and working together on those solutions. And so, I'm really excited about it. Hopefully, at some point we'll be able to come back together and I'll be able to give you some insight and how that's going. >> Well, we certainly will. We appreciate your time and thanks for joining our cube community. We really appreciate it. You're now cube alumni. Our door is always open here at theCUBE, and we want to hear more of those stories. We're going to do a lot more coverage, a lot more sharing of stories, certainly in this area, that's important and we're committed to it. Thank you for your time today and sharing the insights and your experience on the Women in Tech celebration of International Women's Day. Thank you so much. >> Thank you. Happy International Women's Day. >> Okay. This is theCUBE. I'm John Furrie, your host. Thanks for watching the presentation of Women in Tech global event, celebrating International Women's Day. This is the season one episode one, of our ongoing program that we're going to have here on theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (soft instrumental music)

>> As to the adoption challenges, I wasn't clear on where that should go. I mean, I'm happy to just throw it out there. >> You'll again punch it back to me, right? >> Okay. >> Question comes to me and I'm going to pass the ball to Greg to connect the thread on one backbone is needed. Emphasizing Cat 9K that we just talked about. >> And same thing for the last question. The routes to market? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Great. So we'll use that program for everything. Perfect. >> Masum, could you... Yeah, right there. So mark your place and try not to move that seat. That's it. Now, come forward just a tad, just a tad. There we go. Yeah. Okay, that's fine. Okay Alex, we're good. >> Okay. So Leonard don't leave after this 'Cause I'm going to do my outro. I'm going to do that as a separate asset, okay? >> You bet. >> Okay, great. So guys just it'll be five, four, three, silent, two, one. And then just follow my lead, okay? All right, Alex, you're ready? Masum and Greg, you're ready? >> Ready. >> Ready. >> Okay, here we go on me. On Dave in five, four, three, (beep). Okay, we're back. Digging into the infrastructure to make hybrid work possible. High performance, cost effective, scalable, and secure. That's what it's all about. And so far, we've covered the rapid migration to Wi-Fi 6E technology, and the role that switching is going to play. And now we're going to get into Private 5G and to do that, let's welcome Masum Mir, who is Vice President, and General Manager of Mobile, Cable and IoT business at Cisco. And Greg Dorai who is the Vice President of Product Management for the networking experiences group at Cisco. He's responsible for Catalyst access, that whole portfolio, Enterprise 5G, Cisco DNA Spaces, Cisco ISE, a lot of stuff there Greg. And gentlemen, welcome. >> Dave thank you for having us. >> Yeah, our pleasure. Masum let's start with you on the topic of Private 5G. What do we need to know about that? And more specifically, what's unique about Cisco's Private 5G? >> So most importantly, delivering Private 5G in enterprise terms, that's super important to look at 5G. Many of our peer groups might have got it wrong. We're looking at Private 5G with the lens of enterprise, what enterprise really needs. Is 5G going to come and displace a lot of existing technology, or is it going to help augment the technology that enterprise. It has an excellent the digitization journey. I wanted to start Dave with the basic premise of hybrid work. And what hybrid work really means. Is it only for knowledge worker, or is it for all workers? So we strongly believe hybrid work needs to empower all workers. It's not only connecting remote workers but also bringing people, things and space together. And we strongly believe the combination of Wi-Fi 6 and 5G for private network is going to accelerate that journey bringing people, things and space together in a very, very cohesive way. Why our offer is so unique? We are going to create a continuum. Enterprises don't have to make a hard choice. They will be using Wi-Fi technology and 5G technology hand in hand without creating a disruption on their policy and identity systems. They don't have to rethink, "Do I have to go and build a new backbone?" Is a common backbone that will support both Wi-Fi as well as 5G. Most importantly, delivering this entire offer as a service with the ease of consumption, ease of operation, and a trusted environment that they can put their mission critical workload on. >> Now, I like it. So a couple takeaways there. I mean, it's inclusive of all workers not just knowledge workers, non disruptive, everybody loves to hear that. And of course, it has service model as key Masum, let me stay with you. I mean, we can't wait for 5G, right? It's lightning fast, it got super low latency, very high bandwidth. So that's what everybody's excited about. The question though is, 5G gets introduced, yeah it's going to power things like IoT networks. Is that going to replace Wi-Fi and legacy wired broadband? >> Absolutely not. So we see Private 5G as an augmentation to the enterprise on top of Wi-Fi. Wi-Fi as you heard in the previous conversation, Wi-Fi is bringing more capability with Wi-Fi 6 and Wi-Fi 6E. And 5G is going to be yet another augmentation. Wi-Fi and 5G will coexist within enterprise for many years to come. I would like my friend, Greg to talk a little bit about this continuum. Greg? >> Yeah, I think it's sort of like, I like to say it's an and not an or. Because there's enough use cases out there which require spectrum. And you know, spectrum is a constraint. So you have Private 5G, your Wi-Fi 6, and both offer opportunities. So for example, in an indoor carpeted setting where you're basically connecting your phone for basic browsing, or connecting your laptop, Wi-Fi is sufficient. But if it's a process automation factory where you need seven nines of reliability, Private 5G is the better technology. Similarly outdoor, large areas, it's probably Private 5G, right? 'Cause you can have easy handoff between public and private. So it's use case driven. And once it's use case driven, it's going to be an or because there's so many next-gen use cases. Whether it's AR VR, drones, you know, self-driving cars you name it, right? And so I think these two technologies, 5G and Wi-Fi 6E is going to work hand in hand to deliver awesome outcomes for our customers. >> Yeah. And just the data volumes are going to be incredible. We always talk about the data volumes. You ain't seen nothing yet is what I always say. But the thing is every new tech that's introduced into the enterprise, you can almost be certain that it's going to bring adoption challenges. And not only that, it also is going to bring changes in the way you do things. And that brings new complexities from an operational standpoint. So my question is, how are you addressing this with the introduction of 5G? >> Dave, this is a fantastic question. And this is why we have spent, me and Greg have spent tremendous amount of time to create continuum. I'll start with the foundation first, backbone. So we have been building this enterprise backbone supported with wired connection as well as Wi-Fi connection. We wanted to make sure that as Private 5G comes within enterprise, you don't have to rethink and reimagine your backbone. It's the common backbone that will support what Wi-Fi, Wi-Fi 6, Wi-Fi 6E, as well as Private 5G. You're rest assured that it is the same backbone that we have heard in the previous section on the Cat 9K that will also support a Private 5G access. The second aspect of Private 5G is as you build any new technology into enterprise often time we get into this trap. To get to an outcome, we move fast and we create a silo. And then that silo operation creates barriers to mainstream it. So upfront, we have to think about not creating another silo. And how we are doing it. Number one, is a device that can connect into Wi-Fi network or a Private 5G network. You don't have to reimagine or rethink how I'm going to manage the identity. We'll create continuum with a common identity across the Wi-Fi access or 5G access in the same environment. The second aspect of that is how are we going to retain all our staff? Our enterprise staff is well trained with Wi-Fi technology and wired technology. Now 5G comes with tremendous amount of value and benefit. But it also comes with inherent technology complexity, learning curve problem. This is where our simple to consume, simple to operate model of SaaS comes to play. That we're going to take all those complexity away. It is a cloud delivered service. So enterprise don't have to go through this massive learning curve adopting this technology. Last but not least, on how we are going to manage your capital. Any new technology and enterprise often time, you need huge amount of upfront investment to adopt the technology to get to the other side of getting the outcome. So again, our business model of SaaS will allow enterprise to adopt this new technology and pay as your grow model to meet with enterprise needs. Finally, I also wanted to pass to Greg to touch a little bit more on how we are thinking about this common identity across any access in the enterprise. Greg, to you. >> So we thought about it in two different ways. One is, a lot of enterprises today use our identity and secure management platform. We call it ISE, Cisco ISE platform. And so, years and years of policy and identities, and which access servers, radio servers they use et cetera, are plugged in already into our ISE, right? So, if you can share that with this Private 5G as a service infrastructure that Masum's been building, we think we'll be able to create that bridge. Because we are not forcing enterprises to create new identities or new policies. So that's sort of step one to make it easier. We also thought through so something where in the case of a public 5G network, for example. It's very convenient because you take your phone out of your pocket and it's connected to the network, right? Versus for wifi, you have to log into an SSID in your hotel, or in your home, and in home, it's automatic. But that's that login process that creates friction. And that's a problem because then you can't be seamless. So we initiated what we call as open roaming, right? Like that's a identity federation that we first created between identity owners. Could be carriers, could be anything, right? Anyone who owns an identity. And they will share with venues. And so if the sharing happens, then that onboarding can be automatic. And once onboarding is automatic, then it's easy to pass off between Wi-Fi and 5G. And so that's again, another way in which you can lower the adoption barriers 'cause you share across public Private 5G and Wi-Fi networks. So these are two concrete examples of how we thought about lowering the barriers of adoption as we enter into this heterogeneous world. >> Nice, I can't wait. Let's talk about how this thing, scales in the go to market. What are the most likely, or maybe preferred, or obvious routes to market for Private 5G from Cisco? >> So Dave stay tuned right when they announce more about it. But I can also assure you that access to this spectrum is a challenge for many enterprises when it comes to cellular technology. In some countries there are more spectrum accessible by enterprise. In many countries, that's not the case. So we have thought through very carefully that how do we bring this offer to the market partnering with many service providers and mobile operators. Where in countries where you don't have direct access to the spectrum, our partnership with mobile operators, that you will hear more about as we come to Mobile World Congress, is going to allow our enterprise to consume this technology. even if they don't have the spectrum. In the places where the enterprise might have spectrum access, we'll also in our manage service providers to hide the complexity of the new technology on top of our SaaS services, or cloud delivered services. This is the augmentation with the partnership with manage service providers and mobile operators that will ease this journey for enterprises. Our most important primitive in this journey is to keep it simple for enterprise, make it intuitive, and trust it from day one. >> Outstanding. Okay, Masum, Greg, thanks so much. It was great to have you guys on. I really appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> In a moment, I'll be back with some closing thoughts and an opportunity for you to actually see this technology in action and talk to the experts directly. Keep it right there.

>>Hello and welcome today's cube presentation of eight of us startup showcase. I'm john for your host highlighting the hottest companies and devops data analytics and cloud management lisa martin and David want are here to kick it off. We've got a great program for you again. This is our, our new community event model where we're doing every quarter, we have every new episode, this is quarter three this year or episode three, season one of the hottest cloud startups and we're gonna be featured. Then we're gonna do a keynote package and then 15 countries will present their story, Go check them out and then have a closing keynote with a practitioner and we've got some great lineups, lisa Dave, great to see you. Thanks for joining me. >>Hey guys, >>great to be here. So David got to ask you, you know, back in events last night we're at the 14 it's event where they had the golf PGA championship with the cube Now we got the hybrid model, This is the new normal. We're in, we got these great companies were showcasing them. What's your take? >>Well, you're right. I mean, I think there's a combination of things. We're seeing some live shows. We saw what we did with at mobile world Congress. We did the show with AWS storage day where it was, we were at the spheres, there was no, there was a live audience, but they weren't there physically. It was just virtual and yeah, so, and I just got pained about reinvent. Hey Dave, you gotta make your flights. So I'm making my flights >>were gonna be at the amazon web services, public sector summit next week. At least a lot, a lot of cloud convergence going on here. We got many companies being featured here that we spoke with the Ceo and their top people cloud management, devops data, nelson security. Really cutting edge companies, >>yes, cutting edge companies who are all focused on acceleration. We've talked about the acceleration of digital transformation the last 18 months and we've seen a tremendous amount of acceleration in innovation with what these startups are doing. We've talked to like you said, there's, there's C suite, we've also talked to their customers about how they are innovating so quickly with this hybrid environment, this remote work and we've talked a lot about security in the last week or so. You mentioned that we were at Fortinet cybersecurity skills gap. What some of these companies are doing with automation for example, to help shorten that gap, which is a big opportunity >>for the job market. Great stuff. Dave so the format of this event, you're going to have a fireside chat with the practitioner, we'd like to end these programs with a great experienced practitioner cutting edge in data february. The beginning lisa are gonna be kicking off with of course Jeff bar to give us the update on what's going on AWS and then a special presentation from Emily Freeman who is the author of devops for dummies, she's introducing new content. The revolution in devops devops two point oh and of course jerry Chen from Greylock cube alumni is going to come on and talk about his new thesis castles in the cloud creating moats at cloud scale. We've got a great lineup of people and so the front ends can be great. Dave give us a little preview of what people can expect at the end of the fireside chat. >>Well at the highest level john I've always said we're entering that sort of third great wave of cloud. First wave was experimentation. The second big wave was migration. The third wave of integration, Deep business integration and what you're >>going to hear from >>Hello Fresh today is how they like many companies that started early last decade. They started with an on prem Hadoop system and then of course we all know what happened is S three essentially took the knees out from, from the on prem Hadoop market lowered costs, brought things into the cloud and what Hello Fresh is doing is they're transforming from that legacy Hadoop system into its running on AWS but into a data mess, you know, it's a passionate topic of mine. Hello Fresh was scaling they realized that they couldn't keep up so they had to rethink their entire data architecture and they built it around data mesh Clements key and christoph Soewandi gonna explain how they actually did that are on a journey or decentralized data >>measure it and your posts have been awesome on data measure. We get a lot of traction. Certainly you're breaking analysis for the folks watching check out David Landes, Breaking analysis every week, highlighting the cutting edge trends in tech Dave. We're gonna see you later, lisa and I are gonna be here in the morning talking about with Emily. We got Jeff Barr teed up. Dave. Thanks for coming on. Looking forward to fireside chat lisa. We'll see you when Emily comes back on. But we're gonna go to Jeff bar right now for Dave and I are gonna interview Jeff. Mm >>Hey Jeff, >>here he is. Hey, how are you? How's it going really well. So I gotta ask you, the reinvent is on, everyone wants to know that's happening right. We're good with Reinvent. >>Reinvent is happening. I've got my hotel and actually listening today, if I just remembered, I still need to actually book my flights. I've got my to do list on my desk and I do need to get my >>flights. Uh, >>really looking forward >>to it. I can't wait to see the all the announcements and blog posts. We're gonna, we're gonna hear from jerry Chen later. I love the after on our next event. Get your reaction to this castle and castles in the cloud where competitive advantages can be built in the cloud. We're seeing examples of that. But first I gotta ask you give us an update of what's going on. The ap and ecosystem has been an incredible uh, celebration these past couple weeks, >>so, so a lot of different things happening and the interesting thing to me is that as part of my job, I often think that I'm effectively living in the future because I get to see all this really cool stuff that we're building just a little bit before our customers get to, and so I'm always thinking okay, here I am now, and what's the world going to be like in a couple of weeks to a month or two when these launches? I'm working on actually get out the door and that, that's always really, really fun, just kind of getting that, that little edge into where we're going, but this year was a little interesting because we had to really significant birthdays, we had the 15 year anniversary of both EC two and S three and we're so focused on innovating and moving forward, that it's actually pretty rare for us at Aws to look back and say, wow, we've actually done all these amazing things in in the last 15 years, >>you know, it's kind of cool Jeff, if I may is is, you know, of course in the early days everybody said, well, a place for startup is a W. S and now the great thing about the startup showcases, we're seeing the startups that >>are >>very near, or some of them have even reached escape velocity, so they're not, they're not tiny little companies anymore, they're in their transforming their respective industries, >>they really are and I think that as they start ups grow, they really start to lean into the power of the cloud. They as they start to think, okay, we've we've got our basic infrastructure in place, we've got, we were serving data, we're serving up a few customers, everything is actually working pretty well for us. We've got our fundamental model proven out now, we can invest in publicity and marketing and scaling and but they don't have to think about what's happening behind the scenes. They just if they've got their auto scaling or if they're survivalists, the infrastructure simply grows to meet their demand and it's it's just a lot less things that they have to worry about. They can focus on the fun part of their business which is actually listening to customers and building up an awesome business >>Jeff as you guys are putting together all the big pre reinvented, knows a lot of stuff that goes on prior as well and they say all the big good stuff to reinvent. But you start to see some themes emerged this year. One of them is modernization of applications, the speed of application development in the cloud with the cloud scale devops personas, whatever persona you want to talk about but basically speed the speed of of the app developers where other departments have been slowing things down, I won't say name names, but security group and I t I mean I shouldn't have said that but only kidding but no but seriously people want in minutes and seconds now not days or weeks. You know whether it's policy. What are some of the trends that you're seeing around this this year as we get into some of the new stuff coming out >>So Dave customers really do want speed and for we've actually encapsulate this for a long time in amazon in what we call the bias for action leadership principle >>where >>we just need to jump in and move forward and and make things happen. A lot of customers look at that and they say yes this is great. We need to have the same bias fraction. Some do. Some are still trying to figure out exactly how to put it into play. And they absolutely for sure need to pay attention to security. They need to respect the past and make sure that whatever they're doing is in line with I. T. But they do want to move forward. And the interesting thing that I see time and time again is it's not simply about let's adopt a new technology. It's how do we >>how do we keep our workforce >>engaged? How do we make sure that they've got the right training? How do we bring our our I. T. Team along for this. Hopefully new and fun and exciting journey where they get to learn some interesting new technologies they've got all this very much accumulated business knowledge they still want to put to use, maybe they're a little bit apprehensive about something brand new and they hear about the cloud, but there by and large, they really want to move forward. They just need a little bit of >>help to make it happen >>real good guys. One of the things you're gonna hear today, we're talking about speed traditionally going fast. Oftentimes you meant you have to sacrifice some things on quality and what you're going to hear from some of the startups today is how they're addressing that to automation and modern devoPS technologies and sort of rethinking that whole application development approach. That's something I'm really excited to see organization is beginning to adopt so they don't have to make that tradeoff anymore. >>Yeah, I would >>never want to see someone >>sacrifice quality, >>but I do think that iterating very quickly and using the best of devoPS principles to be able to iterate incredibly quickly and get that first launch out there and then listen with both ears just >>as much >>as you can, Everything. You hear iterate really quickly to meet those needs in, in hours and days, not months, quarters or years. >>Great stuff. Chef and a lot of the companies were featuring here in the startup showcase represent that new kind of thinking, um, systems thinking as well as you know, the cloud scale and again and it's finally here, the revolution of deVOps is going to the next generation and uh, we're excited to have Emily Freeman who's going to come on and give a little preview for her new talk on this revolution. So Jeff, thank you for coming on, appreciate you sharing the update here on the cube. Happy >>to be. I'm actually really looking forward to hearing from Emily. >>Yeah, it's great. Great. Looking forward to the talk. Brand new Premier, Okay, uh, lisa martin, Emily Freeman is here. She's ready to come in and we're going to preview her lightning talk Emily. Um, thanks for coming on, we really appreciate you coming on really, this is about to talk around deVOPS next gen and I think lisa this is one of those things we've been, we've been discussing with all the companies. It's a new kind of thinking it's a revolution, it's a systems mindset, you're starting to see the connections there she is. Emily, Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. >>Thank you for having me. So your teaser video >>was amazing. Um, you know, that little secret radical idea, something completely different. Um, you gotta talk coming up, what's the premise behind this revolution, you know, these tying together architecture, development, automation deployment, operating altogether. >>Yes, well, we have traditionally always used the sclc, which is the software delivery life cycle. Um, and it is a straight linear process that has actually been around since the sixties, which is wild to me um, and really originated in manufacturing. Um, and as much as I love the Toyota production system and how much it has shown up in devops as a sort of inspiration on how to run things better. We are not making cars, we are making software and I think we have to use different approaches and create a sort of model that better reflects our modern software development process. >>It's a bold idea and looking forward to the talk and as motivation. I went into my basement and dusted off all my books from college in the 80s and the sea estimates it was waterfall. It was software development life cycle. They trained us to think this way and it came from the mainframe people. It was like, it's old school, like really, really old and it really hasn't been updated. Where's the motivation? I actually cloud is kind of converging everything together. We see that, but you kind of hit on this persona thing. Where did that come from this persona? Because you know, people want to put people in buckets release engineer. I mean, where's that motivation coming from? >>Yes, you're absolutely right that it came from the mainframes. I think, you know, waterfall is necessary when you're using a punch card or mag tape to load things onto a mainframe, but we don't exist in that world anymore. Thank goodness. And um, yes, so we, we use personas all the time in tech, you know, even to register, well not actually to register for this event, but a lot events. A lot of events, you have to click that drop down. Right. Are you a developer? Are you a manager, whatever? And the thing is personas are immutable in my opinion. I was a developer. I will always identify as a developer despite playing a lot of different roles and doing a lot of different jobs. Uh, and this can vary throughout the day. Right. You might have someone who has a title of software architect who ends up helping someone pair program or develop or test or deploy. Um, and so we wear a lot of hats day to day and I think our discussions around roles would be a better, um, certainly a better approach than personas >>lease. And I've been discussing with many of these companies around the roles and we're hearing from them directly and they're finding out that people have, they're mixing and matching on teams. So you're, you're an S R E on one team and you're doing something on another team where the workflows and the workloads defined the team formation. So this is a cultural discussion. >>It absolutely is. Yes. I think it is a cultural discussion and it really comes to the heart of devops, right? It's people process. And then tools deVOps has always been about culture and making sure that developers have all the tools they need to be productive and honestly happy. What good is all of this? If developing software isn't a joyful experience. Well, >>I got to ask you, I got you here obviously with server list and functions just starting to see this kind of this next gen. And we're gonna hear from jerry Chen, who's a Greylock VC who's going to talk about castles in the clouds, where he's discussing the moats that could be created with a competitive advantage in cloud scale. And I think he points to the snowflakes of the world. You're starting to see this new thing happening. This is devops 2.0, this is the revolution. Is this kind of where you see the same vision of your talk? >>Yes, so DeVOps created 2000 and 8, 2000 and nine, totally different ecosystem in the world we were living in, you know, we didn't have things like surveillance and containers, we didn't have this sort of default distributed nature, certainly not the cloud. Uh and so I'm very excited for jerry's talk. I'm curious to hear more about these moz. I think it's fascinating. Um but yeah, you're seeing different companies use different tools and processes to accelerate their delivery and that is the competitive advantage. How can we figure out how to utilize these tools in the most efficient way possible. >>Thank you for coming and giving us a preview. Let's now go to your lightning keynote talk. Fresh content. Premier of this revolution in Devops and the Freemans Talk, we'll go there now. >>Hi, I'm Emily Freeman, I'm the author of devops for dummies and the curator of 97 things every cloud engineer should know. I am thrilled to be here with you all today. I am really excited to share with you a kind of a wild idea, a complete re imagining of the S DLC and I want to be clear, I need your feedback. I want to know what you think of this. You can always find me on twitter at editing. Emily, most of my work centers around deVOps and I really can't overstate what an impact the concept of deVOPS has had on this industry in many ways it built on the foundation of Agile to become a default a standard we all reach for in our everyday work. When devops surfaced as an idea in 2008, the tech industry was in a vastly different space. AWS was an infancy offering only a handful of services. Azure and G C P didn't exist yet. The majority's majority of companies maintained their own infrastructure. Developers wrote code and relied on sys admins to deploy new code at scheduled intervals. Sometimes months apart, container technology hadn't been invented applications adhered to a monolithic architecture, databases were almost exclusively relational and serverless wasn't even a concept. Everything from the application to the engineers was centralized. Our current ecosystem couldn't be more different. Software is still hard, don't get me wrong, but we continue to find novel solutions to consistently difficult, persistent problems. Now, some of these end up being a sort of rebranding of old ideas, but others are a unique and clever take to abstracting complexity or automating toil or perhaps most important, rethinking challenging the very premises we have accepted as Cannon for years, if not decades. In the years since deVOps attempted to answer the critical conflict between developers and operations, engineers, deVOps has become a catch all term and there have been a number of derivative works. Devops has come to mean 5000 different things to 5000 different people. For some, it can be distilled to continuous integration and continuous delivery or C I C D. For others, it's simply deploying code more frequently, perhaps adding a smattering of tests for others. Still, its organizational, they've added a platform team, perhaps even a questionably named DEVOPS team or have created an engineering structure that focuses on a separation of concerns. Leaving feature teams to manage the development, deployment, security and maintenance of their siloed services, say, whatever the interpretation, what's important is that there isn't a universally accepted standard. Well, what deVOPS is or what it looks like an execution, it's a philosophy more than anything else. A framework people can utilize to configure and customize their specific circumstances to modern development practices. The characteristic of deVOPS that I think we can all agree on though, is that an attempted to capture the challenges of the entire software development process. It's that broad umbrella, that holistic view that I think we need to breathe life into again, The challenge we face is that DeVOps isn't increasingly outmoded solution to a previous problem developers now face. Cultural and technical challenge is far greater than how to more quickly deploy a monolithic application. Cloud native is the future the next collection of default development decisions and one the deVOPS story can't absorb in its current form. I believe the era of deVOPS is waning and in this moment as the sun sets on deVOPS, we have a unique opportunity to rethink rebuild free platform. Even now, I don't have a crystal ball. That would be very handy. I'm not completely certain with the next decade of tech looks like and I can't write this story alone. I need you but I have some ideas that can get the conversation started, I believe to build on what was we have to throw away assumptions that we've taken for granted all this time in order to move forward. We must first step back. Mhm. The software or systems development life cycle, what we call the S. D. L. C. has been in use since the 1960s and it's remained more or less the same since before color television and the touch tone phone. Over the last 60 or so odd years we've made tweaks, slight adjustments, massaged it. The stages or steps are always a little different with agile and deVOps we sort of looped it into a circle and then an infinity loop we've added pretty colors. But the sclc is more or less the same and it has become an assumption. We don't even think about it anymore, universally adopted constructs like the sclc have an unspoken permanence. They feel as if they have always been and always will be. I think the impact of that is even more potent. If you were born after a construct was popularized. Nearly everything around us is a construct, a model, an artifact of a human idea. The chair you're sitting in the desk, you work at the mug from which you drink coffee or sometimes wine, buildings, toilets, plumbing, roads, cars, art, computers, everything. The sclc is a remnant an artifact of a previous era and I think we should throw it away or perhaps more accurately replace it, replace it with something that better reflects the actual nature of our work. A linear, single threaded model designed for the manufacturer of material goods cannot possibly capture the distributed complexity of modern socio technical systems. It just can't. Mhm. And these two ideas aren't mutually exclusive that the sclc was industry changing, valuable and extraordinarily impactful and that it's time for something new. I believe we are strong enough to hold these two ideas at the same time, showing respect for the past while envisioning the future. Now, I don't know about you, I've never had a software project goes smoothly in one go. No matter how small. Even if I'm the only person working on it and committing directly to master software development is chaos. It's a study and entropy and it is not getting any more simple. The model with which we think and talk about software development must capture the multithreaded, non sequential nature of our work. It should embody the roles engineers take on and the considerations they make along the way. It should build on the foundations of agile and devops and represent the iterative nature of continuous innovation. Now, when I was thinking about this, I was inspired by ideas like extreme programming and the spiral model. I I wanted something that would have layers, threads, even a way of visually representing multiple processes happening in parallel. And what I settled on is the revolution model. I believe the visualization of revolution is capable of capturing the pivotal moments of any software scenario. And I'm going to dive into all the discrete elements. But I want to give you a moment to have a first impression, to absorb my idea. I call it revolution because well for one it revolves, it's circular shape reflects the continuous and iterative nature of our work, but also because it is revolutionary. I am challenging a 60 year old model that is embedded into our daily language. I don't expect Gartner to build a magic quadrant around this tomorrow, but that would be super cool. And you should call me my mission with. This is to challenge the status quo to create a model that I think more accurately reflects the complexity of modern cloud native software development. The revolution model is constructed of five concentric circles describing the critical roles of software development architect. Ng development, automating, deploying and operating intersecting each loop are six spokes that describe the production considerations every engineer has to consider throughout any engineering work and that's test, ability, secure ability, reliability, observe ability, flexibility and scalability. The considerations listed are not all encompassing. There are of course things not explicitly included. I figured if I put 20 spokes, some of us, including myself, might feel a little overwhelmed. So let's dive into each element in this model. We have long used personas as the default way to do divide audiences and tailor messages to group people. Every company in the world right now is repeating the mantra of developers, developers, developers but personas have always bugged me a bit because this approach typically either oversimplifies someone's career are needlessly complicated. Few people fit cleanly and completely into persona based buckets like developers and operations anymore. The lines have gotten fuzzy on the other hand, I don't think we need to specifically tailor messages as to call out the difference between a devops engineer and a release engineer or a security administrator versus a security engineer but perhaps most critically, I believe personas are immutable. A persona is wholly dependent on how someone identifies themselves. It's intrinsic not extrinsic. Their titles may change their jobs may differ, but they're probably still selecting the same persona on that ubiquitous drop down. We all have to choose from when registering for an event. Probably this one too. I I was a developer and I will always identify as a developer despite doing a ton of work in areas like devops and Ai Ops and Deverell in my heart. I'm a developer I think about problems from that perspective. First it influences my thinking and my approach roles are very different. Roles are temporary, inconsistent, constantly fluctuating. If I were an actress, the parts I would play would be lengthy and varied, but the persona I would identify as would remain an actress and artist lesbian. Your work isn't confined to a single set of skills. It may have been a decade ago, but it is not today in any given week or sprint, you may play the role of an architect. Thinking about how to design a feature or service, developer building out code or fixing a bug and on automation engineer, looking at how to improve manual processes. We often refer to as soil release engineer, deploying code to different environments or releasing it to customers or in operations. Engineer ensuring an application functions inconsistent expected ways and no matter what role we play. We have to consider a number of issues. The first is test ability. All software systems require testing to assure architects that designs work developers, the code works operators, that infrastructure is running as expected and engineers of all disciplines that code changes won't bring down the whole system testing in its many forms is what enables systems to be durable and have longevity. It's what reassures engineers that changes won't impact current functionality. A system without tests is a disaster waiting to happen, which is why test ability is first among equals at this particular roundtable. Security is everyone's responsibility. But if you understand how to design and execute secure systems, I struggle with this security incidents for the most part are high impact, low probability events. The really big disasters, the one that the ones that end up on the news and get us all free credit reporting for a year. They don't happen super frequently and then goodness because you know that there are endless small vulnerabilities lurking in our systems. Security is something we all know we should dedicate time to but often don't make time for. And let's be honest, it's hard and complicated and a little scary def sec apps. The first derivative of deVOPS asked engineers to move security left this approach. Mint security was a consideration early in the process, not something that would block release at the last moment. This is also the consideration under which I'm putting compliance and governance well not perfectly aligned. I figure all the things you have to call lawyers for should just live together. I'm kidding. But in all seriousness, these three concepts are really about risk management, identity, data, authorization. It doesn't really matter what specific issue you're speaking about, the question is who has access to what win and how and that is everyone's responsibility at every stage site reliability engineering or sorry, is a discipline job and approach for good reason. It is absolutely critical that applications and services work as expected. Most of the time. That said, availability is often mistakenly treated as a synonym for reliability. Instead, it's a single aspect of the concept if a system is available but customer data is inaccurate or out of sync. The system is not reliable, reliability has five key components, availability, latency, throughput. Fidelity and durability, reliability is the end result. But resiliency for me is the journey the action engineers can take to improve reliability, observe ability is the ability to have insight into an application or system. It's the combination of telemetry and monitoring and alerting available to engineers and leadership. There's an aspect of observe ability that overlaps with reliability, but the purpose of observe ability isn't just to maintain a reliable system though, that is of course important. It is the capacity for engineers working on a system to have visibility into the inner workings of that system. The concept of observe ability actually originates and linear dynamic systems. It's defined as how well internal states of a system can be understood based on information about its external outputs. If it is critical when companies move systems to the cloud or utilize managed services that they don't lose visibility and confidence in their systems. The shared responsibility model of cloud storage compute and managed services require that engineering teams be able to quickly be alerted to identify and remediate issues as they arise. Flexible systems are capable of adapting to meet the ever changing needs of the customer and the market segment, flexible code bases absorb new code smoothly. Embody a clean separation of concerns. Are partitioned into small components or classes and architected to enable the now as well as the next inflexible systems. Change dependencies are reduced or eliminated. Database schemas accommodate change well components, communicate via a standardized and well documented A. P. I. The only thing constant in our industry is change and every role we play, creating flexibility and solutions that can be flexible that will grow as the applications grow is absolutely critical. Finally, scalability scalability refers to more than a system's ability to scale for additional load. It implies growth scalability and the revolution model carries the continuous innovation of a team and the byproducts of that growth within a system. For me, scalability is the most human of the considerations. It requires each of us in our various roles to consider everyone around us, our customers who use the system or rely on its services, our colleagues current and future with whom we collaborate and even our future selves. Mhm. Software development isn't a straight line, nor is it a perfect loop. It is an ever changing complex dance. There are twirls and pivots and difficult spins forward and backward. Engineers move in parallel, creating truly magnificent pieces of art. We need a modern model for this modern era and I believe this is just the revolution to get us started. Thank you so much for having me. >>Hey, we're back here. Live in the keynote studio. I'm john for your host here with lisa martin. David lot is getting ready for the fireside chat ending keynote with the practitioner. Hello! Fresh without data mesh lisa Emily is amazing. The funky artwork there. She's amazing with the talk. I was mesmerized. It was impressive. >>The revolution of devops and the creative element was a really nice surprise there. But I love what she's doing. She's challenging the status quo. If we've learned nothing in the last year and a half, We need to challenge the status quo. A model from the 1960s that is no longer linear. What she's doing is revolutionary. >>And we hear this all the time. All the cube interviews we do is that you're seeing the leaders, the SVP's of engineering or these departments where there's new new people coming in that are engineering or developers, they're playing multiple roles. It's almost a multidisciplinary aspect where you know, it's like going into in and out burger in the fryer later and then you're doing the grill, you're doing the cashier, people are changing roles or an architect, their test release all in one no longer departmental, slow siloed groups. >>She brought up a great point about persona is that we no longer fit into these buckets. That the changing roles. It's really the driver of how we should be looking at this. >>I think I'm really impressed, really bold idea, no brainer as far as I'm concerned, I think one of the things and then the comments were off the charts in a lot of young people come from discord servers. We had a good traction over there but they're all like learning. Then you have the experience, people saying this is definitely has happened and happening. The dominoes are falling and they're falling in the direction of modernization. That's the key trend speed. >>Absolutely with speed. But the way that Emily is presenting it is not in a brash bold, but it's in a way that makes great sense. The way that she creatively visually lined out what she was talking about Is amenable to the folks that have been doing this for since the 60s and the new folks now to really look at this from a different >>lens and I think she's a great setup on that lightning top of the 15 companies we got because you think about sis dig harness. I white sourced flamingo hacker one send out, I oh, okay. Thought spot rock set Sarah Ops ramp and Ops Monte cloud apps, sani all are doing modern stuff and we talked to them and they're all on this new wave, this monster wave coming. What's your observation when you talk to these companies? >>They are, it was great. I got to talk with eight of the 15 and the amount of acceleration of innovation that they've done in the last 18 months is phenomenal obviously with the power and the fuel and the brand reputation of aws but really what they're all facilitating cultural shift when we think of devoPS and the security folks. Um, there's a lot of work going on with ai to an automation to really kind of enabled to develop the develops folks to be in control of the process and not have to be security experts but ensuring that the security is baked in shifting >>left. We saw that the chat room was really active on the security side and one of the things I noticed was not just shift left but the other groups, the security groups and the theme of cultural, I won't say war but collision cultural shift that's happening between the groups is interesting because you have this new devops persona has been around Emily put it out for a while. But now it's going to the next level. There's new revolutions about a mindset, a systems mindset. It's a thinking and you start to see the new young companies coming out being funded by the gray locks of the world who are now like not going to be given the we lost the top three clouds one, everything. there's new business models and new technical architecture in the cloud and that's gonna be jerry Chen talk coming up next is going to be castles in the clouds because jerry chant always talked about moats, competitive advantage and how moats are key to success to guard the castle. And then we always joke, there's no more moz because the cloud has killed all the boats. But now the motor in the cloud, the castles are in the cloud, not on the ground. So very interesting thought provoking. But he's got data and if you look at the successful companies like the snowflakes of the world, you're starting to see these new formations of this new layer of innovation where companies are growing rapidly, 98 unicorns now in the cloud. Unbelievable, >>wow, that's a lot. One of the things you mentioned, there's competitive advantage and these startups are all fueled by that they know that there are other companies in the rear view mirror right behind them. If they're not able to work as quickly and as flexibly as a competitor, they have to have that speed that time to market that time to value. It was absolutely critical. And that's one of the things I think thematically that I saw along the eighth sort of that I talked to is that time to value is absolutely table stakes. >>Well, I'm looking forward to talking to jerry chan because we've talked on the queue before about this whole idea of What happens when winner takes most would mean the top 3, 4 cloud players. What happens? And we were talking about that and saying, if you have a model where an ecosystem can develop, what does that look like and back in 2013, 2014, 2015, no one really had an answer. Jerry was the only BC. He really nailed it with this castles in the cloud. He nailed the idea that this is going to happen. And so I think, you know, we'll look back at the tape or the videos from the cube, we'll find those cuts. But we were talking about this then we were pontificating and riffing on the fact that there's going to be new winners and they're gonna look different as Andy Jassy always says in the cube you have to be misunderstood if you're really going to make something happen. Most of the most successful companies are misunderstood. Not anymore. The cloud scales there. And that's what's exciting about all this. >>It is exciting that the scale is there, the appetite is there the appetite to challenge the status quo, which is right now in this economic and dynamic market that we're living in is there's nothing better. >>One of the things that's come up and and that's just real quick before we bring jerry in is automation has been insecurity, absolutely security's been in every conversation, but automation is now so hot in the sense of it's real and it's becoming part of all the design decisions. How can we automate can we automate faster where the keys to automation? Is that having the right data, What data is available? So I think the idea of automation and Ai are driving all the change and that's to me is what these new companies represent this modern error where AI is built into the outcome and the apps and all that infrastructure. So it's super exciting. Um, let's check in, we got jerry Chen line at least a great. We're gonna come back after jerry and then kick off the day. Let's bring in jerry Chen from Greylock is he here? Let's bring him in there. He is. >>Hey john good to see you. >>Hey, congratulations on an amazing talk and thesis on the castles on the cloud. Thanks for coming on. >>All right, Well thanks for reading it. Um, always were being put a piece of workout out either. Not sure what the responses, but it seemed to resonate with a bunch of developers, founders, investors and folks like yourself. So smart people seem to gravitate to us. So thank you very much. >>Well, one of the benefits of doing the Cube for 11 years, Jerry's we have videotape of many, many people talking about what the future will hold. You kind of are on this early, it wasn't called castles in the cloud, but you were all I was, we had many conversations were kind of connecting the dots in real time. But you've been on this for a while. It's great to see the work. I really think you nailed this. I think you're absolutely on point here. So let's get into it. What is castles in the cloud? New research to come out from Greylock that you spearheaded? It's collaborative effort, but you've got data behind it. Give a quick overview of what is castle the cloud, the new modes of competitive advantage for companies. >>Yeah, it's as a group project that our team put together but basically john the question is, how do you win in the cloud? Remember the conversation we had eight years ago when amazon re event was holy cow, Like can you compete with them? Like is it a winner? Take all? Winner take most And if it is winner take most, where are the white spaces for Some starts to to emerge and clearly the past eight years in the cloud this journey, we've seen big companies, data breaks, snowflakes, elastic Mongo data robot. And so um they spotted the question is, you know, why are the castles in the cloud? The big three cloud providers, Amazon google and Azure winning. You know, what advantage do they have? And then given their modes of scale network effects, how can you as a startup win? And so look, there are 500 plus services between all three cloud vendors, but there are like 500 plus um startups competing gets a cloud vendors and there's like almost 100 unicorn of private companies competing successfully against the cloud vendors, including public companies. So like Alaska, Mongo Snowflake. No data breaks. Not public yet. Hashtag or not public yet. These are some examples of the names that I think are winning and watch this space because you see more of these guys storm the castle if you will. >>Yeah. And you know one of the things that's a funny metaphor because it has many different implications. One, as we talk about security, the perimeter of the gates, the moats being on land. But now you're in the cloud, you have also different security paradigm. You have a different um, new kinds of services that are coming on board faster than ever before. Not just from the cloud players but From companies contributing into the ecosystem. So the combination of the big three making the market the main markets you, I think you call 31 markets that we know of that probably maybe more. And then you have this notion of a sub market, which means that there's like we used to call it white space back in the day, remember how many whites? Where's the white space? I mean if you're in the cloud, there's like a zillion white spaces. So talk about this sub market dynamic between markets and that are being enabled by the cloud players and how these sub markets play into it. >>Sure. So first, the first problem was what we did. We downloaded all the services for the big three clowns. Right? And you know what as recalls a database or database service like a document DB and amazon is like Cosmo dB and Azure. So first thing first is we had to like look at all three cloud providers and you? Re categorize all the services almost 500 Apples, Apples, Apples # one number two is you look at all these markets or sub markets and said, okay, how can we cluster these services into things that you know you and I can rock right. That's what amazon Azure and google think about. It is very different and the beauty of the cloud is this kind of fat long tail of services for developers. So instead of like oracle is a single database for all your needs. They're like 20 or 30 different databases from time series um analytics, databases. We're talking rocks at later today. Right. Um uh, document databases like Mongo search database like elastic. And so what happens is there's not one giant market like databases, there's a database market And 30, 40 sub markets that serve the needs developers. So the Great News is cloud has reduced the cost and create something that new for developers. Um also the good news is for a start up you can find plenty of white speeds solving a pain point, very specific to a different type of problem >>and you can sequence up to power law to this. I love the power of a metaphor, you know, used to be a very thin neck note no torso and then a long tail. But now as you're pointing out this expansion of the fat tail of services, but also there's big tam's and markets available at the top of the power law where you see coming like snowflake essentially take on the data warehousing market by basically sitting on amazon re factoring with new services and then getting a flywheel completely changing the economic unit economics completely changing the consumption model completely changing the value proposition >>literally you >>get Snowflake has created like a storm, create a hole, that mode or that castle wall against red shift. Then companies like rock set do your real time analytics is Russian right behind snowflakes saying, hey snowflake is great for data warehouse but it's not fast enough for real time analytics. Let me give you something new to your, to your parallel argument. Even the big optic snowflake have created kind of a wake behind them that created even more white space for Gaza rock set. So that's exciting for guys like me and >>you. And then also as we were talking about our last episode two or quarter two of our showcase. Um, from a VC came on, it's like the old shelf where you didn't know if a company's successful until they had to return the inventory now with cloud you if you're not successful, you know it right away. It's like there's no debate. Like, I mean you're either winning or not. This is like that's so instrumented so a company can have a good better mousetrap and win and fill the white space and then move up. >>It goes both ways. The cloud vendor, the big three amazon google and Azure for sure. They instrument their own class. They know john which ecosystem partners doing well in which ecosystems doing poorly and they hear from the customers exactly what they want. So it goes both ways they can weaponize that. And just as well as you started to weaponize that info >>and that's the big argument of do that snowflake still pays the amazon bills. They're still there. So again, repatriation comes back, That's a big conversation that's come up. What's your quick take on that? Because if you're gonna have a castle in the cloud, then you're gonna bring it back to land. I mean, what's that dynamic? Where do you see that compete? Because on one hand is innovation. The other ones maybe cost efficiency. Is that a growth indicator slow down? What's your view on the movement from and to the cloud? >>I think there's probably three forces you're finding here. One is the cost advantage in the scale advantage of cloud so that I think has been going for the past eight years, there's a repatriation movement for a certain subset of customers, I think for cost purposes makes sense. I think that's a tiny handful that believe they can actually run things better than a cloud. The third thing we're seeing around repatriation is not necessary against cloud, but you're gonna see more decentralized clouds and things pushed to the edge. Right? So you look at companies like Cloudflare Fastly or a company that we're investing in Cato networks. All ideas focus on secure access at the edge. And so I think that's not the repatriation of my own data center, which is kind of a disaggregated of cloud from one giant monolithic cloud, like AWS east or like a google region in europe to multiple smaller clouds for governance purposes, security purposes or legacy purposes. >>So I'm looking at my notes here, looking down on the screen here for this to read this because it's uh to cut and paste from your thesis on the cloud. The excellent cloud. The of the $38 billion invested this quarter. Um Ai and ml number one, um analytics. Number two, security number three. Actually, security number one. But you can see the bubbles here. So all those are data problems I need to ask you. I see data is hot data as intellectual property. How do you look at that? Because we've been reporting on this and we just started the cube conversation around workflows as intellectual property. If you have scale and your motives in the cloud. You could argue that data and the workflows around those data streams is intellectual property. It's a protocol >>I believe both are. And they just kind of go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly. Right? So data for sure. I. P. So if you know people talk about days in the oil, the new resource. That's largely true because of powers a bunch. But the workflow to your point john is sticky because every company is a unique snowflake right? Like the process used to run the cube and your business different how we run our business. So if you can build a workflow that leverages the data, that's super sticky. So in terms of switching costs, if my work is very bespoke to your business, then I think that's competitive advantage. >>Well certainly your workflow is a lot different than the cube. You guys just a lot of billions of dollars in capital. We're talking to all the people out here jerry. Great to have you on final thought on your thesis. Where does it go from here? What's been the reaction? Uh No, you put it out there. Great love the restart. Think you're on point on this one. Where did we go from here? >>We have to follow pieces um in the near term one around, you know, deep diver on open source. So look out for that pretty soon and how that's been a powerful strategy a second. Is this kind of just aggregation of the cloud be a Blockchain and you know, decentralized apps, be edge applications. So that's in the near term two more pieces of, of deep dive we're doing. And then the goal here is to update this on a quarterly and annual basis. So we're getting submissions from founders that wanted to say, hey, you missed us or he screwed up here. We got the big cloud vendors saying, Hey jerry, we just lost his new things. So our goal here is to update this every single year and then probably do look back saying, okay, uh, where were we wrong? We're right. And then let's say the castle clouds 2022. We'll see the difference were the more unicorns were there more services were the IPO's happening. So look for some short term work from us on analytics, like around open source and clouds. And then next year we hope that all of this forward saying, Hey, you have two year, what's happening? What's changing? >>Great stuff and, and congratulations on the southern news. You guys put another half a billion dollars into early, early stage, which is your roots. Are you still doing a lot of great investments in a lot of unicorns. Congratulations that. Great luck on the team. Thanks for coming on and congratulations you nailed this one. I think I'm gonna look back and say that this is a pretty seminal piece of work here. Thanks for sharing. >>Thanks john thanks for having us. >>Okay. Okay. This is the cube here and 81 startup showcase. We're about to get going in on all the hot companies closing out the kino lisa uh, see jerry Chen cube alumni. He was right from day one. We've been riffing on this, but he nails it here. I think Greylock is lucky to have him as a general partner. He's done great deals, but I think he's hitting the next wave big. This is, this is huge. >>I was listening to you guys talking thinking if if you had a crystal ball back in 2013, some of the things Jerry saying now his narrative now, what did he have a crystal >>ball? He did. I mean he could be a cuBA host and I could be a venture capital. We were both right. I think so. We could have been, you know, doing that together now and all serious now. He was right. I mean, we talked off camera about who's the next amazon who's going to challenge amazon and Andy Jassy was quoted many times in the queue by saying, you know, he was surprised that it took so long for people to figure out what they were doing. Okay, jerry was that VM where he had visibility into the cloud. He saw amazon right away like we did like this is a winning formula and so he was really out front on this one. >>Well in the investments that they're making in these unicorns is exciting. They have this, this lens that they're able to see the opportunities there almost before anybody else can. And finding more white space where we didn't even know there was any. >>Yeah. And what's interesting about the report I'm gonna dig into and I want to get to him while he's on camera because it's a great report, but He says it's like 500 services I think Amazon has 5000. So how you define services as an interesting thing and a lot of amazon services that they have as your doesn't have and vice versa, they do call that out. So I find the report interesting. It's gonna be a feature game in the future between clouds the big three. They're gonna say we do this, you're starting to see the formation, Google's much more developer oriented. Amazon is much more stronger in the governance area with data obviously as he pointed out, they have such experience Microsoft, not so much their developer cloud and more office, not so much on the government's side. So that that's an indicator of my, my opinion of kind of where they rank. So including the number one is still amazon web services as your long second place, way behind google, right behind Azure. So we'll see how the horses come in, >>right. And it's also kind of speaks to the hybrid world in which we're living the hybrid multi cloud world in which many companies are living as companies to not just survive in the last year and a half, but to thrive and really have to become data companies and leverage that data as a competitive advantage to be able to unlock the value of it. And a lot of these startups that we talked to in the showcase are talking about how they're helping organizations unlock that data value. As jerry said, it is the new oil, it's the new gold. Not unless you can unlock that value faster than your competition. >>Yeah, well, I'm just super excited. We got a great day ahead of us with with all the cots startups. And then at the end day, Volonte is gonna interview, hello, fresh practitioners, We're gonna close it out every episode now, we're going to do with the closing practitioner. We try to get jpmorgan chase data measures. The hottest area right now in the enterprise data is new competitive advantage. We know that data workflows are now intellectual property. You're starting to see data really factoring into these applications now as a key aspect of the competitive advantage and the value creation. So companies that are smart are investing heavily in that and the ones that are kind of slow on the uptake are lagging the market and just trying to figure it out. So you start to see that transition and you're starting to see people fall away now from the fact that they're not gonna make it right, You're starting to, you know, you can look at look at any happens saying how much ai is really in there. Real ai what's their data strategy and you almost squint through that and go, okay, that's gonna be losing application. >>Well the winners are making it a board level conversation >>And security isn't built in. Great to have you on this morning kicking it off. Thanks John Okay, we're going to go into the next set of the program at 10:00 we're going to move into the breakouts. Check out the companies is three tracks in there. We have an awesome track on devops pure devops. We've got the data and analytics and we got the cloud management and just to run down real quick check out the sis dig harness. Io system is doing great, securing devops harness. IO modern software delivery platform, White Source. They're preventing and remediating the rest of the internet for them for the company's that's a really interesting and lumbago, effortless acres land and monitoring functions, server list super hot. And of course hacker one is always great doing a lot of great missions and and bounties you see those success continue to send i O there in Palo alto changing the game on data engineering and data pipe lining. Okay. Data driven another new platform, horizontally scalable and of course thought spot ai driven kind of a search paradigm and of course rock set jerry Chen's companies here and press are all doing great in the analytics and then the cloud management cost side 80 operations day to operate. Ops ramps and ops multi cloud are all there and sunny, all all going to present. So check them out. This is the Cubes Adria's startup showcase episode three.

>>let's bring in jerry Chen from Greylock is he here? Let's bring him in there? He is. >>Hey john good to see you. >>Hey congratulations on an amazing talk and thesis on the castles on the cloud. Thanks for coming on. >>All right, well thanks for reading it. Um, always were being put a piece of work out out of the ether, not sure what the responses, but it seemed to resonate with a bunch of developers, founders, investors and folks like yourself. So smart people seem to gravitate to us. So thank you very much. >>Well, one of the benefits of doing the Cube for 11 years, Jerry's, we have videotape of many, many people talking about what the future will hold. You kind of are on this early, it wasn't called castles in the cloud, but you were all, I was, we had many conversations were kind of connecting the dots in real time, but you've been on this for a while it's great to see the work. I really think you nailed this. I think you're absolutely on point here. So let's get into it. What is castles in the cloud? New research come out from Greylock that you spearheaded? It's collaborative effort, but you've got data behind it. Give a quick overview of what is castle the cloud, The new modes of competitive advantage for companies. >>Yeah, it's as a group project that our team put together but basically john the question is how do you win in the cloud? Remember the conversation we had eight years ago when amazon re event was holy cow like can you compete with them? Like is it a winner? Take all, Winner take most. And if it is winner take most. Where are the white spaces for some starts to to emerge clearly the past eight years in the cloud this journey we've seen big companies data breaks, snowflakes, elastic mongo data robot. And so um they spotted the question is you know, why are the castles in the cloud? The big three cloud providers amazon google and as you're winning, you know, what advantage do they have? And then given their modes of scale network effects, how can you as a startup win? And so look, there are 500 plus services between all three cloud vendors but there are like 500 plus um startups, competing gets a cloud vendors and there's like almost 100 unicorn of private companies competing successfully against the cloud vendors, including public companies. So like Alaska Mongo snowflake, No data breaks. Not public yet. Hashtag or not public yet. These are some examples of the names that I think are winning and watch this space because you see more of these guys storm the castle if you will. >>Yeah. And you know one of the things that's a funny metaphor because it has many different implications. One, as we talk about security, the perimeter of the gates, the most being on land, but now you're in the cloud, you have also different security paradigm. You have a different um new kinds of services that are coming on board faster than ever before, not just from the cloud players, but from companies contributing into the ecosystem. So the combination of the big three making the market the main markets, you, I think you call it 31 markets that we know of that probably maybe more. And then you have this notion of sub market, which means that there's like, we used to call it white space back in the day. Remember how many whites? Where's the white space? I mean if you're in the cloud there's like a zillion white spaces. So talk about this sub market dynamic between markets and that are being enabled by the cloud players and how these sub markets play into it. >>Sure. So first, the first problem was what we did, we downloaded all the services for the big three clowns. Right. And you know what as recalls a database or database service, like a document dB and amazon is like Cosmo, dB and Azure. So first thing first is we had to like look at all three cloud providers and you? Re categorize all the services almost 500 Apples, Apples, Apples, # one. Number two, is you look at all these markets or sub markets and said, okay, how can we cluster these services into things that you know, you and I can rock. Right, That's what amazon as well. And google think about it is very different. And the beauty of the cloud is this kind of fat long tail of services for developers. So instead of like oracle as a single database for all your needs, they're like 20 or 30 different databases from time series um, analytics, databases we're talking rocks at later today, right? Um uh, document databases like mongo search database like elastic and so what happens is there's not one giant market like databases, there's a database market and 30 40 sub markets that serve the needs developers. So the Great News is cloud has reduced the cost and create something that new for developers. Um also the good uses for a start up, you can find plenty of white speech solving a pain point very specific to a different type of problem >>and you can sequence up the power law to this. I love the power of a metaphor, you know, used to be a very thin neck note no torso and then a long tail. But now as you're pointing out this expansion of the fat tail of services but also this big tam's and markets available at the top of the power law where you see coming like snowflake essentially take on the data warehousing market by basically sitting on amazon and re factoring with new services and then getting a flywheel completely changing the economic unit economics completely changing the consumption model completely changing the value proposition literally >>you snowflake has created like storm create a hole that mode or that castle wall against red shift. Then companies like rock set real time analytics, It's Russian right behind snowflakes saying, hey snowflake is great for data warehouse, but it's not fast enough for real time analytics. Let me give you something new to your, your parallel argument. Even the big optics snowflake have created kind of a wake behind them that created even more white space for Gaza rock set. So that's exciting for guys like media. >>And then also as we were talking about our last episode two or quarter two of our showcase, um, from a VC came on, it's like the old shelf where you didn't know if a company's successful until they had to return the inventory now with cloud. If you're not successful, you know it right away. It's like, it's like there's no debate. Like, I mean you're either winning or not. This is like that's so instrumented. So a company can have a good better mousetrap and win and fill the white space and then move up. >>It goes both ways. The cloud vendor, the big three amazon google and Azure for sure. They instrument their own class. They know john which ecosystem partners doing well in which ecosystems doing poorly and they hear from the customers exactly what they want. So it goes both ways they can weaponize that just as well as you started to weaponize that info >>and that's the big argument of do that snowflake still pays the amazon bills, they're still there. So again, repatriation comes back. That's a big conversation that's come up. Um, what's your quick take on that? Because if you're gonna have a castle in the cloud, then you're gonna bring it back to land. I mean, what's that dynamic? Where do you see that compete? Because on one hand is innovation, the other ones maybe cost efficiency. Is that a growth indicator? Slow down? What's your view on the movement from and to the cloud? >>I think there's probably three forces you're finding here. One is the cost advantage in the scale advantage of cloud. So that I think has been going for the past eight years. There's a repatriation movement for a certain subset of customers, I think for cost purposes makes sense. I think that's a tiny handful that believe they can actually run things better than a cloud. The third thing we're seeing around repatriation is not necessary against cloud, but you're gonna see more decentralized clouds and things pushed to the edge. Right? So you look at companies like Cloudflare Fastly or a company that we're investing in Cato networks. All ideas focus on secure access at the edge. And so I think that's not repatriation of my own data center, but it's kind of a disaggregated of cloud from one giant monolithic cloud, like AWS East or like a google region in europe to multiple smaller clouds for governance purposes, security purposes or legacy purposes. >>So I'm looking at my notes here, looking down on the screen here for this to read this because it's uh to cut and paste from your thesis on the cloud, the cloud. The of the $38 billion invested uh this quarter. Um uh Ai and ml number one um analytics number two, security number three. Actually security number one. But you can see the bubbles here. So all those are data problems I need to ask you. I see data is hot data as intellectual property. How do you look at that? Because we've been reporting on this and we just started the cube conversation around workflows as intellectual property. If you have scale and your motives in the cloud, you could argue that data and the workflows around those data streams is intellectual property, it's a protocol. >>I believe both are. And they just kind of go hand in hand like peanut butter and jelly. Right? So data for sure. I p So if you know people talk about days in the oil, the new resource. That's largely true because the powers a bunch. But the workflow to your point john is sticky because every company is a unique snowflake, right? Like the process used to run the cube and your business different how we run our business. So if you can build a workflow that leverages the data that's super sticky. So in terms of switching costs, if my work is very bespoke to your business then I think that's competitive advantage. >>Well certainly your workflow is a lot different than the cube. You guys. Just a lot of billions of dollars in capital. Uh, we're talking to all the people out here jerry. Great to have you on final thought on your thesis. Where does it go from here? What's been the reaction? Uh, no, you put it out there. Great, love the research. I think you're on point on this one. Where did, where's it go from here? >>We have to follow pieces. Um, in the near term one around, you know, deep diver on open source. So look out for that pretty soon. And how that's been a powerful strategy a second is this kind of disaggregated of the cloud be a Blockchain and you know, decentralized apps, be edge applications. So that's in the near term two more pieces of, of deep dive we're doing. And then the goal here is to update this on a quarterly and annual basis. So we're getting submissions from founders that wanted to say, hey, you missed us Or he screwed up here. We got the big cloud vendors saying, Hey jerry, we just lost his new things. So our goal here is to update this every single year and then probably do look back saying, okay, uh, were we wrong? We're right. And then let's say the castle clouds 2022 we'll see the difference were the more unicorns, were there more services were the IPO's happening. So look for some short term work from us on analytics, like around open source and clouds. And then next year we hope that all this forward saying, Hey, you have two year, what's happening? What's changing? >>Great stuff And, and congratulations on the Southern news. You guys put another half a billion dollars into early, early stage, which is your roots. Are you still doing a lot of great investments in a lot of unicorns? Congratulations that great luck on the team. Thanks for coming on And congratulations. You nailed this one. I think I'm gonna look back and say that this is a pretty seminal piece of work here. Thanks for for sharing. >>Thanks john, Thanks for having me as >>always.

>> Narrator: From around the globe, it's theCUBE with coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe, 2021 Virtual brought to you by Red Hat, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners. >> Hello, welcome back to theCUBE'S coverage of KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2021 Virtual, I'm John Furrier your host of theCUBE. We've got two great guests here, always great to talk to the KubeCon co-chairs and we have Stephen Augustus Head of Open Source at Cisco and also the KubeCon co-chair great to have you back. And Jasmine James Manager and Engineering Effectives at Twitter, the KubeCon co-chair, she's new on the job so we're not going to grill her too hard but she's excited to share her perspective, Jasmine, Stephen great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thanks for having us. >> Thank you. >> So obviously the co-chairs you guys see everything upfront Jasmine, you're going to learn that this is a really kind of key fun position because you've got to multiple hats you got to wear, you got to put a great program together, you got to entertain and surprise and delight the attendees and also can get the right trends, pick everything right and then keep that harmonious vibe going at CNCF and KubeCon is hard so it's a hard job. So I got to ask you out of the gate, what are the top trends that you guys have selected and are pushing forward this year that we're seeing evolve and unfold here at KubeCon? >> For sure yeah. So I'm excited to see, and I would say that some of the top trends for Cloud Native right now are just changes in the ecosystem, how we think about different use cases for Cloud Native technology. So you'll see lot's of talk about new architectures being introduced into Cloud Native technologies or things like WebAssembly. WebAssembly Wasm used cases and really starting to and again, I think I mentioned this every time, but like what are the customer used cases actually really thinking about how all of these building blocks connect and create a cohesive story. So I think a lot of it is enduring and will always be a part. My favorite thing to see is pretty much always maintainer and user stories, but yeah, but architecture is Wasm and security. Security is a huge focus and it's nice to see it comes to the forefront as we talked about having these like the security day, as well as all of the talk arounds, supply chain security, it has been a really, really, really big event (laughs) I'll say. >> Yeah. Well, great shot from last year we have been we're virtual again, but we're back in, the real world is coming back in the fall, so we hopefully in North America we'll be in person. Jasmine, you're new to the job. Tell us a little about you introduce yourself to the community and tell more about who you are and why you're so excited to be the co-chair with Stephen. >> Yeah, absolutely. So I'm Jasmine James, I've been in the industry for the past five or six years previous at Delta Airlines, now at Twitter, as a part of my job at Delta we did a huge drive on adopting Kubernetes. So a lot of those experiences, I was very, very blessed to be a part of in making the adoption and really the cultural shift, easy for developers during my time there. I'm really excited to experience like Cloud Native from the co-chair perspective because historically I've been like on the consumer side going to talk, taking all those best practices, stealing everything I could into bring it back into my job. So make everyone's life easier. So it's really, really great to see all of the fantastic ideas that are being presented, all of the growth and maturity within the Cloud Native world. Similar to Stephen, I'm super excited to hear about the security stuff, especially as it relates to making it easy for developers to shift left on security versus it being such an afterthought and making it something that you don't really have to think about. Developer experience is huge for me which is why I took the job at Twitter six months ago, so I'm really excited to see what I can learn from the other co-chairs and to bring it back to my day-to-day. >> Yeah, Twitter's been very active in open source. Everyone knows that and it's a great chance to see you land there. One of the interesting trends is this year I'll see besides security is GitOps but the one that I think is relevant to your background so fresh is the end user contributions and involvement has been really exploding on the scene. It's always been there. We've covered, Envoy with Lyft but now enterprise is now mainstream enterprises have been kind of going to the open source well and bringing those goodies back to their camps and building out and bringing it back. So you starting to see that flywheel developing you've been on that side now here. Talk about that dynamic and how real that is an important and share some perspective of what's really going on around this explosion around more end user contribution, more end user involvement. >> Absolutely. So I really think that a lot of industry like players are starting to see the importance of contributing back to open source because historically we've done a lot of taking, utilizing these different components to drive the business logic and not really making an investment in the product itself. So it's really, really great to see large companies invest in open source, even have whole teams dedicated to open source and how it's consumed internally. So I really think it's going to be a big win for the companies and for the open source community because I really am a big believer in like giving back and making sure that you should give back as much as you're taking and by making it easy for companies to do the right thing and then even highlighting it as a part of CNCF, it'll be really, really great, just a drive for a great environment for everyone. So really excited to see that. >> That's really good. She has been awesome stuff. Great, great insight. Stephen, I just have you piggyback off that and comment on companies enterprises that want to get more involved with the Cloud Native community from their respective experiences, what's the playbook, is there a new on-ramps? Is there new things? Is there a best practice? What's your view? I mean, obviously everyone's growing and changing. You look at IT has changed. I mean, IT is evolving completely to CloudOps, SRE get ops day two operations. It's pretty much standard now but they need to learn and change. What's your take on this? >> Yeah, so I think that to Jasmine's point and I'm not sure how much we've discussed my background in the past, but I actually came from the corporate IT background, did Desktop Sr, Desktop helped us support all of that stuff up into operations, DevOps, SRE, production engineering. I was an SRE at a startup who used core West technologies and started using Kubernetes back when Kubernetes is that one, two, I think. And that was my first journey into Cloud Native. And I became core less is like only customer to employee convert, right? So I'm very much big on that end user story and figuring out how to get people involved because that was my story as well. So I think that, some of the work that we do or a lot of the work that we do in contributor strategy, the SIG CNCF St. Contributor Strategy is all around thinking through how to bring on new contributors to these various Cloud Native projects, Right? So we've had chats with container D and linker D and a bunch of other folks across the ecosystem, as well as the kind of that maintainer circle sessions that we hold which are kind of like a private, not recorded. So maintainers can kind of get raw and talk about what they're feeling, whether it be around bolstering contributions or whether it'd be like managing burnout, right? Or thinking about how you talk through the values and the principles for your projects. So I think that, part of that story is building for multiple use cases, right? You take Kubernetes for example, right? So Ameritas chair for sync PM over in Kubernetes, one of the sub project owners for the enhancements sub project which involves basically like figuring out how we intake new enhancements to the community but as well as like what the end user cases are all of the use cases for that, right? How do we make it easy to use the technology and how we make it more effective for people to have conversations about how they use technology, right? So I think it's kind of a continuing story and it's delightful to see all of the people getting involved in a SIG Contributor Strategy, because it means that they care about all of the folks that are coming into their projects and making it a more welcoming and easier to contribute place so. >> Yeah. That's great stuff. And one of the things you mentioned about IT in your background and the scale change from IT and just the operational change over is interesting. I was just talking with a friend and we were talking about, get Op and, SRAs and how, in colleges is that an engineering track or is it computer science and it's kind of a hybrid, right? So you're seeing essentially this new operational model at scale that's CloudOps. So you've got hybrid, you've got on-premise, you've got Cloud Native and now soon to be multi-cloud so new things come into play architecture, coding, and programmability. All these things are like projects now in CNCF. And that's a lot of vendors and contributors but as a company, the IT functions is changing fast. So that's going to require more training and more involvement and yet open source is filling the void if you look at some of the successes out there, it's interesting. Can you comment on the companies that are out there saying, "Hey, I know my IT department is going to be turning into essentially SRE operations or CloudOps at scale. How do they get there? How could they work with KubeCon and what's the key playbook? How would you answer that? >> Yeah, so I would say, first off the place to go is the one-on-one track. We specifically craft that one-on-one track to make sure that people who are new to Cloud Native get a very cohesive story around what they're trying to get into, right? At any one time. So head to the one-on-one track, please add to the one-on-one track, hang out, definitely check out all of the keynotes that again, the keynotes, we put a lot of work into making sure these keynotes tell a very nice story about all of the technology and the amount of work that our presenters put into it as well is phenomenal. It's top notch. It's top notch every time. So those will always be my suggestions. Actually go to the keynotes and definitely check out the one-on-one track. >> Awesome. Jasmine, I got to get your take on this now that you're on the KubeCon and you're co-chairing with Stephen, what's your story to the folks that are in the end user side out there that were in your old position that you were at Delta doing some great Kubernetes work but now it's going beyond Kubernetes. I was just talking with another participant in the KubeCon ecosystem is saying, "It's not just Kubernetes anymore. There's other systems that we're going to deploy our real-time metrics on and whatnot". So what's the story? What's the update? What do you see on the inside now now that you're on board and you're at a Hyperscale at Twitter, what's your advice? What's your commentary to your old friends and the end user world? >> Yeah. It's not an easy task. I think that was, you had mentioned about starting with the one-on-one is like super key. Like that's where you should start. There's so many great stories out there in previous KubeCon that have been told. I was listening to those stories and the great thing about our community is that it's authentic, right? We're telling like all of the ways we tripped up so we can prevent you from doing this same thing and having an easier path, which is really awesome. Another thing I would say is do not underestimate the cultural shift, right? There are so many tools and technologies out there, but there's also a cultural transformation that has to happen. You're shifting from, traditional IT roles to a really holistic like so many different things are changing about the way infrastructure was interacted with the way developers are developing. So don't underestimate the cultural shift and make sure you're bringing everyone to the party because there's a lot of perspectives from the development side that needs to be considered before you make the shift initially So that way you can make sure you're approaching the problem in the right way. So those would be my recommendation. >> Also, speaking of cultural shifts, Stephen I know this is a big passion of yours is diversity in the ecosystem. I think with COVID we've seen probably in the past two years a major cultural shifts on the personnel involved, the people participating, still a lot more work to get done. Where are we on diversity in the ecosystem? How would you rate the progress and the overall achievements? >> I would say doing better, but never stop what has happened in COVID I think, if you look across companies, if you look across the opportunities that have opened up for people in general, there have been plenty of doors that have shut, right? And doors that have really made the assumption that you need to be physical are in person to do good work. And I think that the Cloud Native ecosystem the work that the LF and CNCF do, and really the way that we interact in projects has kind of pushed towards this async first, this remote first work culture, right? So you see it in these large corporations that have had to change the travel policies because of COVID and really for someone who's coming off being like a field engineer and solutions architect, right? The bread and butter is hopping on and off a plane, shaking hands, going to dinner, doing the song and dance, right? With customers. And for that model to functionally shift, right? Having conversations in different ways, right? And yeah, sometimes it's a lot of Zoom calls, right? Zoom calls, webinars, all of these things but I think some of what has happened is, you take the release team, for example, the Kubernetes release team. This is our first cycle with Dave Vellante who's our 121 released team lead is based in India, right? And that's the first time that we've had APAC region release team lead and what that forced us to do, we were already working on it. But what that forced us to do is really focused on asynchronous communication. How can we get things done without having to have people in the room? And we were like, "With Dave Vellante in here, it either works or it doesn't like, we're either going to prove that what we've put in place works for asynchronous communication or it doesn't." And then, given that a project of this scale can operate just fine, right? Right just fine delivering a release with people all across the globe. It proves that we have a lot of flexibility in the way that we offer opportunities, both on the open source side, as well as on the company side. >> Yeah. And I got to say KubeCon has always been global from day one. I was in Shanghai and I was in hung, Jo, visiting Ali Baba. And who do I see in the lobby? The CNCF crew. And I'm like, "What are you guys doing here?" "Oh, we're here talking to the cloud with Alibaba." So global is huge. You guys have nailed that. So congratulations and keep that going. Jasmine, your perspective is women in tech. I mean, you're seeing more and more focus and some great doors opening. It's still not enough. We've been covering this for a long time. Still the numbers are down, but we had a great conference recently at Stanford Women in Data Science amazing conference, a lot of power players coming in, women in tech is evolving. What's your take on this still a lot more work to done. You're an inspiration. Share your story. >> Yeah. We have a long way to go. There's no question about it. I do think that there's a lot of great organizations CNCF being one of them, really doing a great job at sharing, networking opportunities, encouraging other women to contribute to open source and letting that be sort of the gateway into a tech career. My journey is starting as a systems engineer at Delta, working my way into leadership, somehow I'm not sure I ended up there but really sort of shifting and being able to lift other women up has been like so fortunate to be able to do that. Women who code being a mentor, things of that nature has been a great opportunity, but I do feel like the open source community has a long way go to be a more welcoming place for women contributors, things like code of conduct, that being very prevalent making sure that it's not daunting and scary, going into GitHub and starting to create a PR for out of fear of what someone might say about your contributions instead of it being sort of an educational experience. So I think there's a lot of opportunities but there's a lot of programs, networking opportunities out there, especially everyone being remote now that have presented themselves. So I'm very hopeful. And the CNCF, like I said is doing a great job at highlighting these women contributors that are making changes to CNCF projects in really making it something that is celebrated which is really great. >> Yeah. You know that I love Stephen and we thought this last time and the Clubhouse app has come online since we were last talking and it's all audio. So there's a lot of ideas and it's all open. So with a synchronous first you have more access but still context matters. So the language, so there's still more opportunities potentially to offend or get it right so this is now becoming a new cultural shift. You brought this up last time we chatted around the language, language is important. So I think this is something that we're keeping an eye on and trying to keep open dialogue around, "Hey it matters what you say, asynchronously or in texts." We all know that text moment where someone said, "I didn't really mean that." But it was offensive or- >> It's like you said it. (laughs) >> (murmurs) you passionate about this here. This is super important how we work. >> Yeah. So you mentioned Clubhouse and it's something that I don't like. (laughs) So no offense to anyone who is behind creating new technologies for sure. But I think that Clubhouse from, if you take platforms like that, let's generalize, you take platforms like that and you think about the unintentional exclusion that those platforms involve, right? If you think about folks with disabilities who are not necessarily able to hear a conversation, right? Or you don't provide opportunities to like caption your conversations, right? That either intentionally or unintentionally excludes a group of folks, right? So I've seen Cloud Native, I've seen Cloud Native things happen on a Clubhouse, on a Twitter Spaces. I won't personally be involved in them until I know that it's a platform that is not exclusive. So I think that it's great that we're having new opportunities to engage with folks that are not necessarily, you've got people prefer the Slack and discord vibe, you've got people who prefer the text over phone calls, so to speak thing, right? You've got people who prefer phone calls. So maybe like, maybe Clubhouse, Twitter Spaces, insert new, I guess Disco is doing a thing too- >> They call it stages. Disco has stages, which is- >> Stages. They have stages. Okay. All right. So insert, Clubhouse clone here and- >> Kube House. We've got a Kube House come on in. >> Kube House. Kube House. >> Trivial (murmurs). >> So we've got great ways to engage there for people who prefer that type of engagement and something that is explicitly different from the I'm on a Zoom call all day kind of vibe enjoy yourselves, try to make it as engaging as possible, just realize what you may unintentionally be doing by creating a community that not everyone can be a part of. >> Yeah. Technical consequences. I mean, this is key language matters to how you get involved and how you support it. I mean, the accessibility piece, I never thought about that. If you can't listen, I mean, you can't there's no content there. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's a huge part of the Cloud Native community, right? Thinking through accessibility, internationalization, localization, to make sure that our contributions are actually accessible, right? To folks who want to get involved and not just prioritizing, let's say the U.S. or our English speaking part of the world so. >> Awesome. Jasmine, what's your take? What can we do better in the world to make the diversity and inclusion not a conversation because when it's not a conversation, then it's solved. I mean, ultimately it's got a lot more work to do but you can't be exclusive. You got to be diverse more and more output happens. What's your take on this? >> Yeah. I feel like they'll always be work to do in this space because there's so many groups of people, right? That we have to take an account for. I think that thinking through inclusion in the onset of whatever you're doing is the best way to get ahead of it. There's so many different components of it and you want to make sure that you're making a space for everyone. I also think that making sure that you have a pipeline of a network of people that represent a good subset of the world is going to be very key for shaping any program or any sort of project that anyone does in the future. But I do think it's something that we have to consistently keep at the forefront of our mind always consider. It's great that it's in so many conversations right now. It really makes me happy especially being a mom with an eight year old girl who's into computer science as well. That there'll be better opportunities and hopefully more prevalent opportunities and representation for her by the time she grows up. So really, really great. >> Get her coding early, as I always say. Jasmine great to have you and Stephen as well. Good to see you. Final question. What do you hope people walk away with this year from KubeCon? What's the final kind of objective? Jasmine, we'll start with you. >> Wow. Final objective. I think that I would want people to walk away with a sense of community. I feel like the KubeCon CNCF world is a great place to get knowledge, but also an established sense of community not stopping at just the conference and taking part of the community, giving back, contributing would be a great thing for people to walk away with. >> Awesome. Stephen? >> I'm all about community as well. So I think that one of the fun things that we've been doing, is just engaging in different ways than we have normally across the kind of the KubeCon boundaries, right? So you take CNCF Twitch, you take some of the things that I can't mention yet, but are coming out you should see around and pose KubeCon week, the way that we're engaging with people is changing and it's needed to change because of how the world is right now. So I hope that to reinforce the community point, my favorite part of any conference is the hallway track. And I think I've mentioned this last time and we're trying our best. We're trying our best to create it. We've had lots of great feedback about, whether it be people playing among us on CNCF Twitch or hanging out on Slack silly early hours, just chatting it up. And are kind of like crafted hallway track. So I think that engage, don't be afraid to say hello. I know that it's new and scary sometimes and trust me, we've literally all been here. It's going to be okay, come in, have some fun, we're all pretty friendly. We're all pretty friendly and we know and understand that the only way to make this community survive and thrive is to bring on new contributors, is to get new perspectives and continue building awesome technology. So don't be afraid. >> I love it. You guys have a global diverse and knowledgeable and open community. Congratulations. Jasmine James, Stephen Augustus, co-chairs for KubeCon here on theCUBE breaking it down, I'm John Furrier for your host, thanks for watching. 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>>thank you. I'm very happy to be here. It's no surprise that Kevin, 19, has changed every business, but how it's changed Business is very strong, Matic Lee, according to the company. Fortunately, we are seeing some interesting themes and some interesting opportunities that really spend across companies. So today's session we're going to talk to three different companies that have had three different experiences and look at what some of the opportunities, challenges and consistencies across these companies are. And I'm thrilled to be here today with three amazing presenters that have very different stories about how they embraced >>the >>challenges that covered 19 created and turned it into opportunity to get started. I'd like to introduce Dr Albert Chan. He is the vice president and chief of digital patient experience at Sutter Health. Following Dr Chan, we have Sean Flaherty, who is the head of technical services, the Kraft Heinz Company, and rounding out our Panelists. Today we have Jennifer Brent, the director, business operations and strategic planning for global real estate at H P E. Thank you everybody, for sharing your time and attention with us today. Let's jump right in now. As I said, we are seeing a great deal of change and opportunity. So I'm gonna ask you to the Panelists to talk a little bit about what the organization is and some of the challenges that they have experienced over the course of 2020. Dr. Shen, let's start with you. Could you please introduce us to Sutter Health and the challenges you faced over the course of 2020? >>Thank you, Mayor Bell. It's great to join everyone. Uh, center Health is a integrated delivery network in Northern California. We serve over 100 diverse communities with 14,000 clinicians and 53,000 employees. Um, and it's a great opportunity to serve our community. Thank you. >>Perfect. Uh, Dr Chen, that was great intro. Sean, could you pick up and tell us a little bit about what's going on at Kraft Heinz and what you've experienced? >>Uh huh. I'm Sean flirty, and I'm currently the head of technical services. I previously was the head of manufacturing for Oscar Mar. I've been with Kraft Heinz for over 30 plus years, working across the supply chain both internationally and domestically. Kraft Heinz is 150 years old. We make some of the most beloved products consumed by all of our employees. And we have made some major big brands. We have craft. We have pines. We have Oscar Mayer planters, bagel bites or write a classical Who laid Philadelphia? Jeff Maxwell house. That's just to name a few little my current role. I'm in charge of technical services, I said, which includes engineering, maintenance, capital spend transformational manufacturing, maintenance and all the productivity pipeline that goes with >>certainly a very wide purview for a big product line. Uh, Gen Brent H P E. Tell us a little bit about what you were doing. >>Thank you, Maribel. Appreciate it. So hopefully everyone is familiar with Hewlett Packard. Enterprise are our main mission is really to advance the way that people live and work through technology. Um, and one of the ways that I'm supporting the company, I work for the global real estate organization. Um, global real estate is is obviously a sort of a key area of focus for everyone. Um, thes days, you know, given the cove in 19 impacts that you're speaking to, Maribel. Um, HP has over 200 sites globally. We operate in over 50 countries. Um, with an employee base of over 65,000. So what we're really focused on right now in real estate is how do we sort of take what's happening right now with Cove in 19. How do we advance? You know, the way that our employees or team members live and work? How do we sort of capitalize on this particular situation and think about what the future of work looks like And how we start to design for and deliver that now? Um, so that's really what what me and the team are focused on. >>Great. So I'm gonna pick up with Dr Chan because, you know, it is covered. 19. And there's been a lot going on in the health care industry. Clearly, um, you know, in your case, could you talk a little bit about what happened when cove it hit? What kind of plans did you have to develop? Because it really wasn't businesses usual. >>Thank you, Maribel. Yes, and indeed you're right. It's a business. Not usual. But frankly, it's something in healthcare. We've always had the face. Whether regards the fires or other disasters, thistle is a unique time for us to being involved in the most intimate parts of people's lives, and this is no different. Um, let me let me harking back to a story. Actually, I think, which illustrate the point. Eso I was in clinic in late February and saw two patients who drove straight from the airport to my clinic. They had respiratory symptoms. Their daughter was concerned about their health and I got advanced warning. I've been reading about this thing called Cove in, and so I had to wear a mask gown, face shield, you name it. And I realized then and there that we had a unique challenge that was confronting us here instead of health. Which is how do we protect the patients and our inclinations as well. So, um, during the week of my birthday, actually, we, um, marshals up a group of people over 200 folks, many of whom I've never met to this day actually came together and designed a telehealth strategy to rapidly respond to covet. We took we typically, we one of things we were doing is telemedicine. And prior to covet, we had 20 video visits per day on average, and after co vid 19, we saw up to 7000 video visits per day. So the rapper was tremendous and it was over. We were essentially given this challenge over a four week period instead of a two year roadmap, which is what our initial intent waas. We trained over 4700 questions to deliver care virtually to meet the challenge, >>that it's simply amazing and shows the power of both the will of individuals and technology coming together to make amazing things happen. And I imagine, Sean, um, in your case, you probably had, well, different something similar in the sense that it's food manufacturing. It's not something that can easily be done remotely. Can you tell us a little bit about what you been experiencing during coded 19? >>Yes, eso. As you said, manufacturing is not something that's not very easily remote. And so we had to quickly address the pandemic and make sure that our operation could stay intact and make our employees feel safe and healthy and make sure that that happens. I mean, across our manufacturing facilities we have put in, um, we require face mask. We require health check assessments. We require a temperature check before anybody enters our facilities. We put digital signage across the facility to encourage social distancing. We've taken our break rooms and redid those so that there's, uh, social distance inside with plexiglass. We staggered are break hours or lunch hours so that people don't congratulate inside there. And then we also have mailed newsletters to ever employees home in both English and Spanish to promote yourself social distancing and wearing face masks outside of work so that they could protect their communities and their families. We've limited visits to a plant to one person per week, and that person can only go to a plant once a week we've done came meeting. We've done team meetings inside of our plants to promote social distancing. We've done lots of activities inside of a manufacturing, please sure that our people are safe and then they go home the same when they came and we don't have any transmission of the virus inside of our facility. >>I think this is so critical because you want people to be able to go to work, to feel safe. And, you know, our food supply chain depends on that. So really excited with the work that you've been doing and very happy that you were able to do it. Jen, I know that HP has manufacturing, but I would like to talk about something slightly different with you because I think you have a mixture of employees. So you're in real estate. How are you thinking differently about what to do with the employees? And you know, some people are calling this a hybrid work concept. What has been your experience with coded 19 and a global workforce? >>Absolutely, Maribel. Thank you. So you're absolutely right. We've got a blend in terms of our workforce. We have your sort of knowledge based workers, Aziz. Well, as you know, manufacturing based workers and also essential support. I t support workers. Um, and those latter two categories have continued to use their offices as part of the essential workforce throughout Cove in 19. And so we've implemented very similar sort of safety measures. Social distancing, you know, PP use Onda like, but as we're thinking about what the future of work looks like and really wanting thio leverage all spaces and and sort of re conceptualize or reimagined, as many people are saying, the future of office, um, we're thinking a bit more broadly. And so as a company, we are in the midst of a of a strategy transformation to become the edge of cloud platform as a service company that is the leader in the industry. Uh, similarly, we wanted to think about our strategy in terms of our workplace in a similar way. And so we're framing it as the edge toe office experience, where by the edge, we mean anything, really, that is outside of the office. So that might be your home office. That might be a customer site. That might be, you know, working on the train on your way to the office for a cafe s. So we're really trying to think of the workplaces everywhere. And how do we really design for that? How do we design for a flow, Um, of a workforce that's really moving and working in a space that at that particular time or moment or day best suits their their work. So we're really tackling this in terms of four key areas. Right now we're looking at what is that experience at the edge? What do we need to make people feel comfortable for people to feel safe and connected How are we then? Adapting our office is how are we pivoting those so that they are they really sort of foster used by a much more fluid workforce on, but they're really fostering collaboration and social and connection. Um, then we're looking at the digital experience being that sort of bridge between spaces on dat sort of equalizer, where everyone has a really similar kind of experience, has the ability to engage on. But it's that piece, really that is so core to our culture and ensuring that we continue tohave that really strong cultural element that is core core to HP. And I'm sure, um, to set our health into Kraft Heinz as well on dfo finally really the mindset because I think any time you move into something like hybrid and you have some people that aren't in your physical proximity, how you engage with them is incredibly important on DSO. I think what's what's most exciting? Really, for us is a technology company is the sort of the key, the key part or or piece that technology plays in that where you know, in the in the past, workplace technology and some of these other pieces collaboration technology may have been seen as more of a nice tohave, whereas now it's really an imperative. Um uh, in our view, for, you know, to really support the future workplace. >>I know when we were just talking with Sean, it sounded like there was quite a bit of communications and collaborations that had to happen with the employee based to make sure that they were up to speed on all the changes that were happening in terms of what their work environment, where was going to be on how it will change going forward. Um, now, on Albert side, this also makes me think that, you know, we talked about this tremendous amount of visits that you started doing with telehealth. Can you talk a little bit about the changes of how that might have changed, what the worker environment was like because I went from seeing a lot of patients in person to doing a lot of telehealth Any other changes that you had to associate with this coded 19 shift? >>Well, thank you very well. I think the biggest change is really our belief in what we could get done. So in other words, there's a there's There's always a fundamental belief of what you can achieve, and we've pushed the limits and we keep pushing it. And and really, it's been quite gratifying, actually, to see our our employees, our staff are clinicians. We had to step up to this challenge and feel empowered to do so. So we're we're seeing new models of care we're seeing, for example, patients. I, for example, I diagnosed a hernia. Believe it or not, be a video, which is I leave the graphical images side for a second. Uh, it was an incredible, credible feet and and I thought I never thought my career that I would be able to do this. But certainly you can, um, and this thing you can attitudes really changed our culture. So, as I mentioned earlier, we really marching up about 200 staff members to come together, many of whom we've never worked together. Frankly, to pull this challenge off, we change our training methodology. We, for example, instead of doing in class classroom training, we essentially held five sessions per day for four weeks straight so that we could accommodate the doctor's schedules and get people ready for telemedicine for example, one of the things we needed to do was get equipment out to our doctors. So we provisioned centrally and in a social distance. Safe manner. Um, several 1004. 4000 plus ipads, for example. So we could deploy them. So consider them centrally, deploy them locally to all our clinicians so they could connect to their patients. And the impact was felt almost immediately. We had stories from physicians who said, Hey, um, I had a family, for example, who was really concerned about their baby, and I diagnosed a neurologic disorder via video, for example, Um, in fact, one of our doctors was quoted as saying, You know, this is this is life has changed so much from Kobe 19, where we're seeing this differentiation between B C before coronavirus and a C after coronavirus and care will never be the same again. So it's an incredible transformation. >>I'm excited for the transformation that we've had because I think it'll bring care Teoh a lot more people more seamlessly, which I think is fabulous now. Yeah, Sean, we talked a little bit about what's going on in your manufacturing environment in terms of adding things like social distancing and other protocols. Were there any other manufacturing changes that happened as a result of that or any other challenges that this new environment created? >>Yes. So assed people started to eat more at home. We had to change our whole manufacturing network as, uh, retool because we service restaurants on the go and those two segments started to drop off. People started buying more of their trusted brands that they are used to. And so we had the retool across our manufacturing network in order to make more products that people wanted. That was in high demand. We increased our capacity across many of our segments. We focused on sanitation to production processes, were still ensuring the highest quality of products concert on lean flow and made flow management inside the facilities. We have put challenge all of our operational assumptions and make sure that we get the most out put that we can during this time. I mean, some of the I think there's four key things that we've learned during this. It's our our speed, agility, our death ability, and I read repeatability, and those four things have come to better ways of what better ways of working increase efficiency, greater flexibility and better focus on what the customer really wants. >>It's actually tremendous to think that you can change a manufacturing line like that that you could be that that responsive to shifts in demand. And I think that that that whole concept we've talked about business agility. If you look at it in health care, if you look at it, um, in a mixed blended environment, like what's going on at HP or if you look at it and manufacturing, we've always discussed it, but we we didn't necessarily have that huge imperative and push to get it done as fast as we've done this time. So it's It's wonderful to see that with the right vision and the right technology, you can actually policing together quite quickly and continue to evolve and adapt them as you see different changes in the marketplace. Jenna I wanted to circle back for a minute because you were talking a little bit about this edged office initiative, and how do you think that changes the employee experience? >>Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, I think it changes it in many ways. In many ways, we're gonna We're gonna hold on. Thio, you know, are are sort of primary core beliefs and behaviors Onda way that we operate a love, you know, the example of sort of the the art of the possible. I mean, one of our sort of call core called cultural beliefs are is is the power of yes, we can, um and I think that this what's been so fascinating and heartening about, you know, this context and the previous two examples is people are just surprised at what they've been able to do about, you know, whether that is, you know, entirely changing in manufacturing line. Whether that is, you know, taking an entire patient diagnosis kind of service entirely digital. I think that people are really becoming exposed far more than they have been in the past, to the truly to the power of technology and what we can dio Onda from an employee engagement perspective. You know, HP, as much as we've had a a pretty flexible way of working where, you know, in the past we've had people working from home. Certainly the core of our culture has always been site based. And I think what's been what you know, what we've sort of been shown through the past sort of 67 months is how much connection you could really establish virtually. You know, it may never be ah, wholesale replacement for what you're able to do in person. Um, but the kind of community feelings that were able thio develop, I think the personal connections and we're letting people into our lives a bit more than we would have. Um, otherwise, but we're really seeing a lot of adaptation. Ah, lot of, you know, efficiency gains from certain people. I think a lot of folks had preconceived ideas about not being productive at home. And I think that, you know, barring some of the sort of unique circumstances of cove it I think that's really been flipped on its head s. So I think, you know, from an engagement perspective, productivity, efficiency. Um, I think, you know, very similar to the prior two examples. What we're seeing is, you know, rethinking the way that we all work and being more sort of fluid. Relying more on technology is actually showing us that we can do things differently. Um, and in a way that actually allows people toe work a lot more flexibly in ways that that suit their own personal style without necessarily, you know, seeing any kind of negative impact on on output but actually in the reverse, you know, really seeing an accelerated positive impact. >>Wonderful. So to close out, I like each of you to tell me, what's the number one thing you've learned in the last nine months of this experience? And how do you think you can use that learning going forward? Perhaps we could start this time with Sean. Yes. So I think >>the one thing that we've learned and we started the journey was really created a culture of we versus by and the and the other thing that I think has really been important during this is management style of leadership style. I think I have had to change my leadership style from one of a servant leader because we're not in the plants now to be able to mentor coach people ends on I wonder what I'm going to call attentional leadership tension leadership. To me visibility. You still got to be seen. You still gotta be able to do things. So you got to use teams you got these virtual facetime Got to do something to make people feel engaged. You have to build trust. And remember, this has gone on for nine months. It's gonna go continue to go on a lot of the people you've never really met person yet. You have to have clarity. I think before we set goals at 123 years. Now it's 30 60 90 days because the environment keeps changing around us so fast. Diversity. You have to be very intentional about being reversed and who you slept on. Your team exclusivity. People still want to see you still want to hear you and they still want to be seen. And they still wanna hurt courage. It's x courage to speak up. It takes courage to create clarity. It takes courage to create a diverse team. It takes courage to create to lead in these chaotic times. So that's really the kind of the biggest takeaways that I've had a broken. >>Thank you, Jennifer. You wanna add anything to that? >>I love everything that Sean just said, Um, and in so many ways, it mirrors all of our key themes that we're thinking about in terms of um, you know, the goodness that we want to take from the past few months, um, and and really apply to our go forward strategy or even emphasize e guess the one the one that I would add, I think it it's probably like encompasses so much of that is really just having a bold, you know, the sort of power and believing in bold moves. So I think what's been so exciting is that we had this really quite bold idea moving Teoh. You know, the future is a hybrid, um, from a workplace strategy perspective and really seeing that embraced, um, and being pretty early on in terms of a company that was developing that strategy. And now seeing that you know, ah, lot of are are sort of competitors or peers or coming out with very similar vision statements, um, I think that that's really been a key learning. And that's been something that's, you know, that's cultural to HP. But really, the power of that kind of vision is, you know, having a sort of bold idea and going for >>it. Awesome. How about you, Albert? How >>do I beat these two? This is amazing. Um I think for me it's really an affirmation. So if I think about health care, we have this unique responsibility and opportunity privilege, if you will, to being involved in the most intimate times of patients. Lives and I have been so hardened by the commitment of our teams of our clinicians to be approachable, reachable even in this face, the pandemic and all these things we're all concerned about each and every day that we're committed to our patients. And, uh, and evidence of that. For example, Alcide, our net promoter score for video are Net net promoter score videos 82 which is on par for our in person clinical care and that that, to me reaffirms the power of relationships to connect to people and to care for people when they need us to care for them to empower them and whether it be the pace of change which we've adapted so quickly, or, um or just our ability to can do, you know we'll do, Um, it's really an affirmation that we were committed to helping people in their daily lives, and it's just an affirmation of the power of people in relationships. So, um, it's been really hardening time for all of us. >>Thank you all for such compelling and inspiring stories. I'm sure the audience will take away many tips and tricks on how to turn challenges into opportunities and strategic advantage moving forward, and now I'm going to turn it back to the Cube for the rest of the show.

>>Hey, welcome back Friday, Jeffrey here with the Cube coming to you from our Palo Alto studios today, talking about event that we're gonna have in November. It's pretty exciting. And to talk about it and give us a little bit of a preview, we're joined in the segment by Jeffrey Hammond. He's the vice president and principal analyst at Forrester. Jeffrey, great to see you. >>It's good to be here, Jeff. Thanks for having me. >>Absolutely so lot of social media memes about. You know, what's driving your digital transformation is the CEO, the CEO or CO of it, and I think we all know what the answer is. But what's what's happened is, as we've, you know, accelerated digital transformation, and we had the lights light switch moment, everybody working from home. We're now six months, eight months into this, and this is gonna be going on for a while. So specifically in the context of Dev Ops, where such a foundation of that is us getting together every morning in a room and having a quick stand up and talking about what our challenges isn't going out to develop. We have been able to do that for six months, and we're probably not gonna be able to do it for a little while longer. So how is Dev? Ops in 2021? The Age of Covert and even Post Cove is gonna be different from what we had say, 2019. >>Yeah, Jeff. A couple years ago I wrote a piece called Designing Developer Spaces. And it was all about creating physical spaces for agile teams. Toe work in because as creative teams, they needed to have an environment that supported them. And the idea of remote working was kind of like unaudited e. You know, there was a list up on git hub of of companies that supported remote developers. And it was maybe 100 companies long at that point. And, you know, now you know, in 2020 every company is a remote development company. And so all those investments in physical spaces, too, for cross functional co located teams aren't something that we're able to take advantage of today, and as a result, it's forcing companies Thio become even more disciplined with respect to the things that they do to help development teams work together. It's enforcing them to to, you know, focus on what I would call spiritual co location because physical co location is no longer an option. And you can't do that without having and even higher attention toe automation on Dev ops practices that enable it, but also an increased focus on enabling digital collaboration. Moving from things like the physical con bond wall that you put index cards on onto tools that help you replicate that sort of capability. But do it in a digital world when you have 100% remote developers, right? >>Right, so so just begs a lot of questions. You know? What should people be measuring? How should they be measuring? I mean, we have all kinds of measurement tools, and obviously the devolves process is continuous thing that's happening every day, pushing out new releases every day. How dio the managers kind of rethink about how they're measuring outcomes. I don't wanna say success because it's really outcomes and not activity. >>Yeah, it's a really timely question, Jeff. You know, I've been getting a lot of questions from from large enterprise development shops about Well, how doe I make sure that my employees are still productive now that I can't see them. Should I be measuring individual productivity? You know my answers. You know, I don't think so. You really want to be able Thio? You really want to be able Thio measure the team level, But you may want to allow individuals to begin toe look at their own productivity metrics and benchmarks themselves because they can't see the person next to them in the other desk or have that conversation and know that they're doing a good job. So the way that managers works changes significantly. Andi. That's one of the things that we'll talk about in November, >>right? And I'm just curious. How much stuff can we pull from? Generic leadership is well, because it's the same situation. I love your I love your concept of spiritual alignment that's also got to come not only from the Dev Ops team, but from all the senior leadership now who don't necessarily have the opportunity to reinforce those messages in the hallway or whatever the kind of the normal communication channels that they used before. But this this is well beyond Dev ops, but really, you know, leadership in general, I would say >>Yeah, it comes down to data collaboration and shared vision. You know, those principles were not unique to software development, but they're extremely important for any type of creative work. And and that's what software development is. So we can learn a lot from from from from the businesses, the whole. But then we need to apply it specifically in the process and context of developing software. And that's where Dev Ops creates the link to enable that happen. >>Yeah, really? An interesting kind of fork in the road, if you will. Dev Ops has been around for 20 some odd years. Fundamental change in the way software respect and built and delivered. But as you said, I mean, even by definition, um, cross functional co located teams simply aren't enabled today and probably won't be for a little while longer. So I think this is probably, ah, lot of information that people are really excited to hear. >>Yeah, especially because we're now out of the sprint phase. We're moving into a marathon. We're gonna have to deal with this for probably at least the next 8 to 12 months. So we've got to start thinking differently for the long term and and and how we keep our employees productive, but we also keep them happy and make sure that they aren't burning out so that they're developing great software. That really matters. >>Yeah, that's great. Well, thanks for the little tease we look forward to getting. Ah, a lot more meat in this topic and diving in in November. So, Jeffrey, Thanks for stopping by and again. His Dev Ops Virtual Form, November 18th, 11 a.m. Eastern 80 and Pacific. Jeffrey, we'll see you there. >>Can't wait. It'll be a lot of, um >>Alright. He's Jeffrey. I'm Jeff. You're watching the Cube, so get ready. Mark your calendars for November. It's the Dev Ops Virtual Forum. Um, November 18. 11 a.m. Eastern eight, Pacific Sea There. Thanks for watching. Yeah.

>> live from Las Vegas. It's the queue covering Inform Attica! World 2019. Brought to you by in from Attica. >> Welcome back, everyone to the cubes. Coverage of Infra Matic. A world here in Las Vegas. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight. I'm doing by two guests. For the segment we have Rick Tam Daniels. He is the VP. Strategic ecosystems and technology than from Attica. Welcome, Rick and Yoav. Enough! He is the VP product for Giga Space. Welcome >> to be here. >> So this is a fun segment. You are the winner of the infirm Attica World 2,019 Solution Expo Cloud and Innovation. I want to get to you in a second and hear all about Giga Space. But I want to start with you. Rick, talk a little bit about this award and about the genesis of it. Where did the idea come from? >> Yes, So one of the things we really wanted to do it in from Attica World this year is create address Some of the most important topics that the customers want to hear about. It's a cloud and I two of the hottest tops the industry every wants to know about it and We wanted to take a lot of our emerging partners there doing some very innovative things than from Attica technology and put them front center. So if you look at the Expo Hall floor right in the middle, we have this almost like an art gallery of all this cool innovation have going on around the inn from Attica. Technology on the idea was that we had attendees come in and actually review the solutions. They had to be really full demos for working demos. Andi could vote on the app. They could say what their favorites were, and the end result is happy announced. Giga Spaces are big winner. >> And so yeah, attendees would vote on the app and so get so big a space. Tell us about it. You're based in Israel. >> Yeah, so aren't is based in Israel or H Q is in New York. Basically, the biggest bass was we've been in the market for more than a decade, deployed like in the largest enterprise in the world. You like banks like Bank of America, like international. I ot like another electric largest airline, largest railway companies, and basically we provide the speed for the application and big data infer structures so they deploy, like real time use cases like fraud detection, economic pricing, predictive maintenance, all those different types of services that required the speed on the big data side. >> You're all about speed, >> all about spirit. If you need the speed, we're the provided for you. >> Well, that's that's very exciting. So talk a little bit about the conversations that you were having with some of the attendees. What kinds of questions were you getting? >> So I think a lot of customers, during customers of ours and informative are talking about the move from kind of historical analysis to more proactive, event driven analytics when you want to be able to instead of interact with the data you want today, one so and now you want to baby toe Dr Analytical on the moment as soon as it happened to provide it that burrito Theron your online processes and instead of kind of offline processes. So, for example, fraud detection, which is the most, is the example. You want to be able to 100 further analysis on on the payment of a soon as it happens and Emilie second level and not like a few seconds after the transaction was over. So it's again. We're talking about the speed. They're very to handle high or amount of data with related sub second response time. >> And how are you using in from Attica? >> Cool So well, We've been working lately with Informatica very tightly with both their product team, and there are in the team because Israel, India, the US, on integrating with some of their different products were basically we've built kind of what Gardner calls the digital integration hub. It's like the next Jan big data architecture, which provides you both. Informatica side that allows to ingest any type of data could be taxed logs, transaction payments, anything you have together with their medal, the meta data management and on top of it, using Giga spaces for the real Time analytics and the high performance in speed. >> So, Rick, I know that this was attendee chosen, so there's no rigging here, but I'd love to hear what your thoughts are in Giga Space in terms of the innovations that they're doing in these in these very important problems, like fraud detection and predictive maintenance, these air these air big problems. That company's heir really wrestling with. >> And I think what's exciting about the solution they had. It was a great business case, right? I think that really resonated. Attendees looking at Everyone can identify with Fraud Analytics. Everyone's unfortunately, probably on a victim of it, so they could see how it works. I think it also focuses on the aspect of a iva. How do operationalized a I? So is the whole model building piece of it, And Infra Matic has a strong player there as well. But now you say, Well, let's actually have the model we need to execute quickly. How do we do that? You know what the biggest spaces technology, but also combine it with the right historical context, right to make the right decisions. So they're really does hit on. How do you actually take a I and make it a real thing? >> And the other important part is the business case in what you were just saying in terms of if a if a customer is the victim of fraud here, she blames the institution, not the hacker on. And if there's a problem with with an airline maintenance problem, you blame the airline. Of course not the faulty problems that it was having. So so I think that that also really shows what what's in the future. What are you seeing? Kind of Mohr innovations that you want to add to the biggest space platform. So >> I think we're working to their lot about like Rick was mentioning about operationalize ing A. I so a lot of challenge today off moving from the research development training part of Day I or the machine anymore to move to production. Let's say you're a payment provider you have the more than you can detect fraud, but your ability for you to run it on millions of transactions a second in a sub lets a few millisecond level. That's the biggest challenge. And if you do it in there a few seconds after the transaction was over, then the you know the last of the fraud or the wire was already happened. So again, the operation was part of taking your more than formula that sound flat from putting in production with the scale of the ingestion rate low latest c you know, scaling on pick events like Black Friday or Cyber Monday. That's the biggest challenges on the production systems. >> Now the speed is of the essence. Rick, this has been a successful experiment trying this. What are you hearing from attendees? Did they like it where they sort of How do we Dad? Does this work? What is this about? >> I think they're really enjoyed it. Every time I look, I went over to the zone. It was full of people having deep conversations, really getting into the technology and understanding. Because as I mentioned these air topics that I think everyone came here to the show to really learn more about How are they going to get where they're going There, Cloud journey where they're going to go in there, eh? I journey. It's a great feedback from attendees. Lot of active participation. So I'm going >> to do it. We're going to see it in >> your batter. It's gonna be great. >> So now that you're the winner, you're going to be up there on the main stage, getting some recognition. That's exciting. What? What are you going to take back? Teo, I know you're based in both Israel and New York. What? What? What does this mean for your company? >> So I think the next step is taking it to the business side. Right? We want to make sure that the joint offering and the joy in partnership moves to the next stage taking it to the next customer. We have some joint customer. We have some new prospect. Were a lot of late from the show here, sitting next to me, sitting side by side with the other partners of Info Matic. I like data breaks and slow flaked and clothes are so we have a lot of joint offering and solving real time like business and off the largest, most challenging enterprise we have, like, you know, largest banks, largest airlines, largest like railways companies. So I think the next step is moving, taking it from the exhibition to the field. >> Great. Well, this is terrific. Congratulations. Once again. Really exciting. Really happy for you. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Thank you. You have been watching the cubes live coverage of in from Attica, World 2019. I'm Rebecca night. Stay tuned

>> Live from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2019 brought to you by Cisco. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Mountain View, California for the theCUBE's coverage of Cisco DevNet Create. It's a small, intimate event where we're bringing the cloud native creation world with the DevNet community within Cisco and of course building applications, programming networks, that's the theme. I'm John Furrier, your host, our next guest is Darryl Sladden, senior technical product manager at Cisco, 20 year veteran, built voice over IP systems. He's a coder, he's a builder, he's a creator. Great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much, I'm glad to be here. >> And you're a fan? >> I love being on theCUBE. Because-- >> And the trivia behind that? Share the context, you had a product, you built one? >> Yes, the first product management job at Cisco was building the Cisco Unified Border Element and of course, that became the Cube, so any time you mention Cube inside of Cisco, that's going to be my product. >> The renaissance within Cisco theCUBE is back and we're embedded in there. Of course we're breaking all the borders down, getting the data. Tell us what's going on in your world? Obviously you've seen a lot of waves. I mean voice over IP that you were involved in? >> Yeah. >> That took, that old PBX telephone-- >> Right. >> Got digital, created massive innovation. That's an inflection point moment. We're seeing a few of those big waves happening now. One of them's an architectural changes around IoT, Wi-fi 6, 5G, cloud computing all coming together. This is an interesting opportunity. What's your focus? Where do you fit into all that? >> Yeah, where I fit in is this is a massive change and one of the problem sets that hasn't been solved yet is how do I understand where I am indoors? There's been great solutions that have unlocked huge amount of value with the GPS system outdoors. You always know where you are, a lot of way to find out exactly the right, it always amazes me at how accurate they are at how long it's going to take me to get to the Computer Museum. But how do I know once I've got into the museum that theCUBE is in the upstairs, in the back corner? That's where we need to solve that problem and I think we're at the crux of that. >> Waze is a great example because one of the things I'm amazed by with Waze is how fast they report the incidents that are going on. People are so actively rapid of adding, inputting the data. You got data junkies adding it and there's been some side effects. The side streets are always clogged. (laughing) >> Police always know-- >> So in physical locations where Wi-fi 6 for instance comes out? >> Yeah. >> You're going to have new capabilities in bandwidth and throughput and coverage areas, these dense areas. It's going to create a navigation opportunity for either machines to machines, machines to humans, humans to machines, humans to humans, within a physical construct. >> Yeah. >> How do you see that evolving? Use cases? What's the pattern? >> Right. What I really see evolving is taking advantage of some of the capabilities that have already existed in wi-fi, meaning ranging from individual IPs but some of the new things that are coming with Wi-fi 6 is Wi-fi 6 creates a great baseline but there are new things where, 802.11mc for example, which is an extension of Wi-fi 6, has what's called fine timing measurement. I can now, with these super accurate chip sets, know the speed of light is about one nanosecond to go about three feet. If I have an accurate clock, now I can know how far I am from the APs. >> Yeah. >> And I can solve that in indoor locations. >> So a lot of physics involved? >> A lot of rates of physics involved. >> Alright, so what products are you working on now to make all this happen. Take us through some of the things that are out there that you've got your fingers on. >> Yeah, so what I'm working on is Cisco's new location platform, it's called Cisco DNA Spaces and so what we're focusing on is digitizing that indoor space. So people spend of their economic activity are indoors. Whether it's in a hotel, where they're selling the rooms, or a restaurant where they're selling food inside the spaces, but what goes on in that physical space? People don't have that same level of knowledge that you do on the web, right? When I go to a webpage and I shop for outdoor furniture? The next two weeks I'm followed by ads about outdoor furniture. But if I go to Home Depot and I spend an hour in the outdoor furniture aisle, they don't know about that. Now, it allows you to digitize that indoor space and provide that context for other types of applications. >> So the value, I mean I'm not saying, now they're going to know you actually shopped at Home Depot, now your ad go to Home Depot. (laughing) But the value is not so much in the advertising. It's really in the efficiencies around work, play, office. These are the things that are going to be impacted because, you know, take healthcare for instance? Manufacturing? How people do work? How services are delivered? Just like in the consumer side, we all relate to the iPhone days when oh my god, I can have GPS on a phone. Now I do a mash up on a Google Map. >> Right. >> Are you saying the same thing for buildings? You're going to import like architectural drawings? How do you get all of this built out? What's the playbook? >> Yeah. The playbook really will be starting at the larger buildings that will be put into Google Maps or put into other places where it can start to get really accurate indoor locations and then never losing things, right? Be able to know where you are indoors. Being able to always find your stuff, not only where you are but maybe I put a tag on some of my assets and I always know where they are? The idea of nurses becoming more efficient because they're going to know where that wheelchair is if I need to find a wheelchair to move a patient out of an office. All of these things just become a little bit more efficient but that just builds on a huge scale when that happens at scale. >> Darryl, talk about the impact of this because you built and deployed disruptive technology in the past. For the folks watching, whether it's an enterprise architect or CIO or CEO or facilities manager, whoever, what is the impact of these new location based services to their business? How should they be thinking about it, holistically? >> Yeah. >> What's your view? >> My real view is that you want to look at it from a platform, so you're not going to have one company. Even at Cisco, we're not going to solve every application but what you do want to do is build a platform that's extensible, right? We'll take in data from multiple sources, whether it APs or video cameras, other things, create a platform that normalizes that location, and then opens that up. So that's what happened as the mainframes transitioned to client server computing. Once you start breaking things up? That's really the value and so I think the CIOS and architects out there, shouldn't be looking at point products as much as understanding that a location platform will help them unlock the value moving forward. >> Talk about the data. How is the data traversing through this? Because obviously you mentioned connecting things like cameras and other things? It could be medical equipment, it could be anything. IoT's going to be a tsunami of opportunity, applications that are going to create a lot of opportunity. How should I think about the data flow? And the role of machine learning and data in all of this? Is that going to be a key part of this? >> Absolutely, the way that we're looking at it is there's kind of two groups. There's the ones that are all in on the cloud, and we are offering this as a software as a subscription service so you buy it on a subscription basis and you let Cisco deal with the problems. Of course with a regulated environment of access to the data and backing it up and restoring it and making sure it's well curated. Or you can decide, yeah I want to run it on premises. If you want it on prem you have to understand you're going to have to deal with those same problems of back up, the data will get really large as you start to collect more and more location and how are you going to best extract value from that data? So I think you really want to look at that this is something that's going to continue to expand and do I want to make that a core competence by running it myself? Or maybe turn that over to cloud service? >> So in terms of what's real and not real or what's coming and what's real today? So you mentioned there's some location services as a SAS. Talk about what's available now from your customer standpoint. >> Yeah. >> What can they get going on and what's coming around the corner? >> Yeah, so what they can get going on today is that location services, Cisco DNA Spaces. So if you go to ciscodnaspaces.com there's free trials available, it's a great sort of application. But more importantly, it provides you that initial start, right? What's coming is more and more applications will take advantage of that, right? We got a great one for things like student success, so that you know a student is inside of a classroom and then if he doesn't come to class for a couple days in a row? Oh maybe he needs counseling? Maybe his car broke down? You can start to do these really interesting student success applications as an example of a vertical. So the vertical applications are starting to really proliferate, but what's available today is the platform. >> So you see verticals really booming on this? >> Yeah. >> They're going to take advantage of it? Alright, so just kind of zoom out and put your industry hat on, not your Cisco hat. When you look at wi-fi and 5G or other technologies that are out there, what's the big movement? What moves the ball down the field the most? Is it going to be wi-fi and 5G? Because it seems like, you know, inch by inch, unified communication seemed stalled, now it's got an uplift with cloud, with data, more great user experiences. SD-WAN's been around for a long time and getting a resurgence. I mean campus networking had been around for a long, long time. >> I know. (chuckling) >> People go to stadiums, want to do Instagram and do videos. What's the big technology lever here? What's the big tailwind for location based in-building stuff? >> What I start to see for this is improving standards and improving accuracy, right? Until you get to that point where it's reliable and replaceable and I can really depend on it? It's all a niche product. I think that's been happening for literally the last eight years in this industry. Lots of niche examples of things that have been successful but it hasn't exploded, until you build that platform where I can absolutely, with reliability say, this device is at this point at this time? >> Yeah. >> Then you can start to really expand but that's really-- >> The timing and the through put, to your point earlier? >> Yeah. >> Okay, thoughts on DevNet, just to wrap up. What's here? Going on in the show here? DevNet Create, Susie did a good job of bringing communities together. A lot of co-creation, they're creating new things. This is a new application environment, programmable. What's your thoughts on DevNet? >> Yeah, I love being around some of the smartest people in the world here. (laughing) It's great. Humbling just to be able to talk to some of these guys. But I do think that really creates the community that teaches everything from little things, like I learned a quick, great new little API trick that I hadn't learned and maybe I taught some people some of the stuff that we're doing about streaming APIs. What I really like about this is all these small little interactions build something really good. >> Yeah. And you build API into all the products that's only going to create more enablement. >> Yeah. >> More creativity. The creativity's flowing big time. >> Right. >> Darryl, thanks for coming on. >> Well thank you so much. >> Great to see you. Thanks, a CUBE fan. >> Right. (laughing) >> Author of the product called The Cube at Cisco back in the day. I'm John Furrier, back with more live coverage after this short break. (light digital music)

>> From Sand Hill Road in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE. Presenting, the People First Network, insights from entrepreneurs and tech leaders. >> Hello everyone I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, we are here in Sand Hill Road up at Mayfield Venture Capital Firm for their 50th anniversary, their People First Network series, produced with theCUBE and Mayfield, I'm John Furrier, with Bill Schlough, the Chief Information Officer of the San Francisco Giants, CUBE alumni, great to see you thanks for joining me today for this People First Series we're doing with Mayfield's 50th anniversary, thanks for coming in. >> Good to be here, John. >> So, been a while since we chatted, it's been a year, A lot's happening in tech, you can't go a year, that's like seven dog years in tech, lot happening, you're managing, as the CIO for the Giants, a lot of things going on in baseball, what's the priorities for you these days, obviously, you guys, great social, great fan experience, what's new for you, what's the priority? >> Man, there's always something new. It's what I love about it, this'll be my 20th season with the Giants comin' up. And, it never gets old, there's always new challenges. On the field, in the seats, off the field, you name it. As we look toward next year, really excited about bringin' in a new video board, which we haven't publicly announced, maybe I just did publicly announce, we're breaking news on theCUBE today. So we're puttin' in a new video board, it'll be over three times the size of the one we have today. That's big news, we're doing a lot of exciting things in the ticketing world. The ticketing world is really transforming right before our eyes in terms of the way fans buy tickets. It's changed a lot. Once up on a time you could call a game a sellout, and we sold out 530 straight games at AT&T Park, but really there's no such thing as a sellout anymore I mean, at any point you can get a great ticket, so we have to adapt to that and change the product that we're delivering to fans, so making some changes on the ticketing front, the fan experience, the ballpark with the video board, and another thing that's changing a lot is the way fans consume our game when they're not at the ballpark. It's rare that you're going to see somebody sit on a couch for three plus hours and watch a game continuously anymore. Fans are consuming through mobile devices, streaming, catching clips here and there, all different methods, and it's fun to be a part of that, because, fans still love the game, but they're just consuming it in different ways. >> Yeah, I love having chats with you on theCUBE because one of the things that have always been the same from nine years doing theCUBE is, the buzzword of consumerization of IT has been out there, overused, but you're living it, you have a consumer product, the ultimate consumer product, in Major League Baseball, and the Giants, great franchise, in a great city, in a great stadium, with a rabid fanbase, and they know tech, so you have all the elements of tech, but the expectation of consumers, and the experiences are changing all the time, you got to deliver on the expectations and introduce new experiences that become expectations, and this is the flywheel of innovation, and it's really hard, but I really respect what you guys are doing over there, and that's why I'm always curious, but, always, the question comes back to, is, can I get faster wifi in the stadium? (laughs) It's always the number one question >> It's funny that you ask that because it is AT&T Park, you know, so, honestly, we got to check that box, and we've had to for years, all the way back to when we first rolled it out, way back in 2004 when we first rolled out wifi in the park, people weren't asking for it then, people were coming to the ballpark with a laptop and plugging a card into it, and there were about a hundred of them that were accessing it, but today, what's interesting is, who knows what next, but we're not talkin' about wifi as much, wifi is just kind of, expected, you got to have it, like water. You're talkin' about 5G networks, and new ways to connect. Honestly, this past season, our wifi usage in terms of the number of fans that use wifi, what we call the take rate, the percentage of fans, was actually down 30% from the previous year. Not because we had less fans in the stadium, because this is the take rate, a percentage of fans in the stadium, went down, because AT&T made some massive investments in their cellular infrastructure at the ballpark, and if you're just connecting, and you got great bandwidth, you don't feel the need to switch over to wifi, so who knows what the future will hold? That's a great point, and you see the LTE networks have so much more power, it used to be you needed wifi to upload your photos, so you'd go in, log in, and if they auto login that's cool, but people don't need to. >> Not with photos, what they need it now for is when we see it really maxing out is events, like our Eagles concert, or Journey concert, or a really big game, like opening day, or honestly, Warriors playoffs game, 49ers football games, that's when folks are streamin' to video. For streamin' to video, they're still goin' to that wifi. Yeah, that's the proven method, plus they don't want to jack up their charges on the AT&T site, but I won't go there, Let's talk about innovat-- Most say unlimited, I will go there, most say unlimited these days. >> Really, I got to find that plan, my daughter's killin' me with her watchin' Netflix on LTE, I tell her. Innovation is changing, I want to get your thoughts on this, 'cause I know you're on the front end of a lot of innovations, you do a lot of advising here at Mayfield. The VC's always trying to read the tea leaves, you're living it, what's the innovation formula look like now for you 'cause as you're sittin' in your staff meetings, as you look at the team of people around you, you guys want to foster, you do foster, innovation culture. What's the formula, what do you guys do when you have those meetings, when everyone's sitting around the table sayin', what do we do next? "How do we create a better experience? "How can we get better fans, and better product "in their hands as fast as possible?" What's your strategy? >> You know, it's funny, people talk about the secret sauce for innovation, what's the formula? I would say, for us, it's really a symbiotic relationship with a lot of things, first of all, where we are, geographically, we've got folks like Mayfield, down the street, and many others, that we can talk to, that are, when innovation is happening, when the startups are incubating, they're being funded by these guys, a lot of times they are here, and our phones are ringing off the hook with a lot of folks so my formula for innovation is answer the phone and take the meetings, but, to be honest, that creates its own problems, because there's so many great ideas out there, if you try to do all of them, you're going to fail at all of them. You got to pick a very small few to try to experiment with, give it a shot, we just don't have the bandwidth, we only have 250 full-time staff on the business side. For us, geographically, you have to really be laser-focused and say okay, there are so many great ideas out here, which are the three or four that we're going to focus on this year, and really give it a try, that's really going to drive, propel our business forward, enhance our product on the field, whatever it might be, but I'll tell you where it really truly starts. It's from the top with our CEO. And, I've had a few different bosses over the years, but with the Giants, our CEO is singularly focused on all of us doing things folks have never done before regardless of what business unit you're in. Whether you're in ticketing, finance, marketing, sales, what drives him, and drives all of us, is innovation. And his eyes glaze over when I talk to him about cost-cutting, and his eyes can glaze over really fast. But when I talk to him about doing something no one's ever done before, that's when he sits forward in his chair, he gets engaged, and I just have a great boss, Larry Baer, he's been with us for 25 years wit the Giants, and he is the driver for it, he creates the culture from the top, where all of us, we want to impress him, and to impress him, you got to do sometin' nobody's ever done before, and what's even more interesting is there are some challenges and some changes talking place across our industry, as I said before, ticketing and other areas, and I've sat in meetings with him where somebody might raise their hand and say, "But this is happening across the industry, "so it's just a macro trend," and he'll get upset, be like, "I don't care about macro trends. "We are here in the Bay Area, "we're the San Francisco Giants, "we're going to do it our way." >> And so when you do it your way, he promotes risk-taking, so that's a great culture. What are some of the things you have tried that were risky, and/or risque, or maybe an experiment, that went well, and maybe ones that didn't go well, can you share some color commentary around that? >> Sure, over 20 years we've had some of all of those. I would say, I've had some real scary moments, our culture is collaborative, but I wouldn't call it combative, but we all have strong opinions, a lot of us have been there a long time, and we have strong opinions and so we'll battle, internally, a lot, but then once the battle is over, we'll all align behind the victory. Thinking back, one of the most stressful times for me at the ballpark was related to wifi, when we decided to take our antennas and put 'em under people's seats. No one had ever done that before, and there were two major concerns with that. One is, honestly are people going to get cancer from these antennas under their seats, it's never been done before, what's going to happen, and whether it's going to happen or not, what's the perception of our fans going to be, because, these are, the bread and butter is, the golden goose here, all the fans, so, yeah it's great that they're going to be, have faster connection here at AT&T Park, but if they think they're going to get cancer, they're going to cancel their season ticket plans, we got to problem. Number two is, we're taking away a little storage space also, under the seats, so it was very controversial internally, we did all of our research, we proved that having a wifi antennae under your seat is the equivalent to having a cell phone in your pocket, most people do that, so we're pretty safe there, and from the storage space perspective, honestly, it actually elevates your stuff, if somebody spills a Coke behind ya, it'll fall all around your purse, which is sitting on top of that wifi antenna so we came up with a good solution, but that was an example of something that was really controversial >> So beer goes on the antennae not your bag. (laughs) >> Exactly, your bag stays dry, we found a way to spin that but, there have been so many, I can go way back in time, back to the days when it was the PalmPilot that ruled the day instead of the apple >> Well you guys also did a good job on social media, I got to give you guys props, because, you're one of the first early adopters on making the fan experience very interactive. That was, at that time, not viewed as standard. Yeah, built the @Cafe at our ballpark, which is still there really to try to bring social media to the fans. >> I think you're the first ballpark to have a kale garden, too, I think. >> That's a little off topic, but yes, driven by one of our players, who's a big kale fan, yeah, the garden out in center field. >> So sustainibility's certainly important, okay, I got to ask the question around your role in the industry, because one of the things that's happening more and more in Major League Baseball and certainly as it crosses over to tech her at Mayfield Venture Capital, there's a lot of collaboration going on, and it's a very people-centric culture where, it used to be people would meet at conferences, or you'd do conference calls, now people are in touch in real time, so these networks are forming. It takes a village to create innovative products, whether you're inside the Giants, or outside in the ecosystem, how have you personally navigated that, and can you share some experiences to the folks watching, how you became successful working in an environment where it's collaborative inside the walls of the San Francisco Giants, but also outside? >> %100, the topic is near and dear to my heart, and from when I started with the Giants, that's what I love about our industry We compete on the field, and only on the field. When you look at who the Giants competitors are, from a business perspective, honestly the Dodgers are not a competitor from a business perspective. The A's are barely a competitor from a business perspective. We got a lot of competitors and very few of them are in our actual industry, so we collaborate all day, and it's been amazing, I can count on one hand, across all of sports, folks who have not been collaborative. There's a very small group of teams, your favorite team, the Boston Red Sox, are not on that list, they are very collaborative, but their arch rival, well there's a few others out there that may be less collaborative, but most of them are highly collaborative, from top down, and so, what I did from when I first started the first trip I made, was to Cleveland. And this was many years ago, Cleveland Indians had a reputation of being very progressive so I called up my counterpart there, I said, "I'm new to the industry, can I come out, "can I learn from you?" And that's where it started, and ever since, every year, we travel to two cities, I take at least four of my staff, to two cities each year and we meet with all the sports teams in those cities. This year, we went to Milwaukee and we met with the Brewers, and we did the Packers as well. Every year, over the 20 years we've visited pretty much every professional sports city, and we just go through it again, and always, red carpet, open door, and you build those face-to-face relationships, that you can pick up the phone and make the call, in a few weeks we're all going to get together in Denver at our MLB IT Summit, my job at the IT Summit every year is I host the golf classic, so I bring all the golfers, the hackers, the duffers out, and we have a great time on the golf course and build those relationships and again, the only thing that we don't really talk about that much is the technology we use to enhance the product on the field. Everything else is fair game. >> So share the business side, but the competitive advantage, where the battle's really having Dodger and Giants obviously on the field, highly competitive-- >> But what's cool about that is then I can meet with the other sports teams to talk about that, so I'll leave the teams nameless, but we've had some awesome collaborative discussions with NBA teams especially to talk about what they're doing to assess talent, and there's no competition there. >> So there's kind of rules of the road, kind of like baseball, unwritten rules. >> Right. >> So talk about the coolest thing that you guys have done this year, share something that you personally feel proud of, or fans love, what were some of the cool things this year that pops out for you? >> Sure, the technology that we invested in this year that I thought was a game-changer, we saw, we experimented with last season, but this year, we've been experimenting with VR and AR a little bit. But, a technology that we thought was really cool is called 4DReplay, it's a company out of Korea. And we saw them, we did an experiment with them, and then we implemented them for the full season this year and we've seen them at some other venues as well, the Warriors tried them at the Playoffs, but we had 'em full year and what we did was they put in about 120 cameras, spaced approximately five feet apart, between the bases. 120 of 'em, and they focus on the pitcher and the batter, so when you have a play, you can 3D, or 4D, 4D rotate around that play and watch the ball as it's moving off the bat, and get it from that full perspective, it's awesome for the fan experience, it gives them a perspective they never have, I love watching the picture, because you can see that hand, in full 4D glory pronating as it comes through on every pitch, if you can watch that hand carefully you can predict what kind of pitch it is, it's something that a fan has never had access to before, we did that for the first time this year. >> I had a new experience, obviously you see Statcast on TV now, a lot of this overlayed stuff happening, kind of creates like an esports vibe to the table. Esports is just coming. >> And it's just the beginning >> Your thoughts on esports, competitor, natural evolution, baseball's going to be involved in it, obviously, thing in the emerging technology's looking interesting, and the younger generation wants the hot, young... Sure, we feel like our game has been around a long time, and it still is, the rules haven't changed that much, but fans still enjoy it, but they just consume it differently and our game can be incredibly exciting in moments, but, there's also some gaps in there when you can build relationships. Some of the younger generation may fill those gaps with watching somethin' else, or two other things on their devices, but that's okay, we embrace that at the ballpark, but in terms of the emergence of esports, and the changing demographic of our fanbase, what we're trying to do is just package our game differently. One thing I'm really excited about, and startin' to see, we're in the early days, I consider with virtual reality, we experiment with it, maybe two or three years ago we've been doing some stuff with it, but I'd say it feels like we're in the second or third inning with virtual reality, where we're really going, and I've seen Intel doin' some of this stuff, I was out working with Intel in Pyeongchang, at the Olympics this past year, working with their PR team, and where it's going I can already visualize what this is going to be like, this concept of volumetric video. Where, it's not about having that courtside seat, in basketball, or that seat right behind home plate, it's about being wherever you want to be, anywhere in the action. And to me it's not about doin' it live, because in baseball, you don't know where the ball's going to go, it's about doin' it, replay, right after, okay, that ball was shot to Brandon Crawford, he made the most amazing diving play, picked it up, gunned it to first, where do you want to watch that from? Everybody's different, some people might want to watch it from right behind first base, some people might want to watch it right Brandon Crawford, behind the batter, with volumetric video and the future of VR, you'll be able to do that, and this esports generation, this fan's instant gratification want, unique experiences, that's what's going to deliver it. >> This is such an immersive environment, we're looking at this kind of volumetric things from Intel, and you got VR and AR, immersion, is a new definition, and it's not, I won't say putting pressure, it's evolving the business model, who would've thought that DraftKings and these companies would be around and be successful, that's gambling, okay, you now you got that, your VR so the business model's changing, I've been hearing even token and cryptocurrency, maybe baseball cards will be tokenized. So these are kind of new, crazy ideas that might be new fan experience and a business model for you guys. Your thoughts on those kind of wacky trends. >> That's why I love working with companies like Mayfield 'cause they're seeing the future before we see it, and I love being where we are, so we can talk to them, and learn about these companies. Another example, along those lines is, how are fans going to get to the ballpark five years from now, and how do we adapt to that because we're doing a major development right adjacent to the ballpark, we've got 4,000 parking spaces. Are we going to need those five years from now? Well we're going to build out that whole parking lot, we're going to put a structure in there. But five, ten years from now, we're building that structure so it can be adaptable, because, is anyone going to need to park? Is parking going to be like typing, you know on a typewriter, 10, 15 years now because everybody is in either self-driving cars, or ride shares, and the cars just, poof, go away, and they come back when you need 'em. >> Like I said, everything that's been invented's been on Star Trek except for the transporter room, but maybe they could transport to the game. >> We could use that in San Francisco. >> Bill, got to ask you about your role with Mayfield, because one of the things I've always been impressed with you is that you always have a taste for innovation, you're not afraid to put the toe in the water or jump in the deep end where the technology is, these guys are lookin' for some trends, too. How do you advise some of these guys, how do you work with Mayfield, what's the relationship, how are they to work with, what's the intersection between Mayfield and you? >> Well the one thing that Mayfield does is they put together a conference, each Summer, that I love comin' down to, and I get to meet a lot of my counterparts and we talked about meeting with my counterparts in sports, but I love meetin' with my counterparts across all industries, and Mayfield makes that possible, they bring us all together with some really interesting speakers on a variety of topics not all directly tech related, so it's a great opportunity for me to just get outside of the daily routine, get outside the box, open my mind, and I just have to drop down the road to do it. So that's an example, another thing is, Mayfield, and other firms will come to me, and just say, "Hey, here's a technology we're evaluating, "they think it would be a great fit in sports, "what do you think?" And so, I can give them some valuable feedback, on company's they're evaluating, companies will come to us, and I might throw them their way, so it's really a two way street >> Great relationship, so you're a sounding board for some ideas, you get to peek into the future, I mean, we've interviewed entrepreneurs, successful entrepreneurs here, it's a seven, eight year build out, so it's almost like an eight year peek into the future. >> Yeah, and it's super valuable, especially given where we are geographically and our inclination toward being on the leading edge. >> I want to just end the segment by sayin', thanks for comin' in, and I want you to show the ring there, 'cause I always, can't stop starin' at the hardware, you got the ring there, the world champion. >> It's a few years old at the moment, we're going to have to get a new one sometime soon. >> We got to work on that, so is there any cutting edge technology to help you evaluate the best player, who you lookin' at next year, what's goin' on? What's the trades goin' on, share us-- >> Are we off the record now, 'cause I have a feeling you're asking this for personal reasons, for your squad, so. >> I'm a Red Sox fan of the AL, obviously, moved here 20 years ago, big fan of the Giants, I love comin' to the games, you guys do a great job, fan experience is great, you guys do great job and I'm looking forward to seeing a great season. >> Thanks, yeah, hope springs eternal this time of year, we always block off October and expect to be busy, but when we have it back, it just gives us an opportunity to get a head start on everybody. >> Well Bill, thanks for coming in, Bill Schlough, CIO for the San Francisco Giants, here on Sand Hill Road talkin' about the 50th anniversary of Mayfield, and this is the People First Network, getting ideas from entrepreneurs, industry executives, and leaders. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE, thanks for watching. (electronic music)

>> Live from Orlando, Florida. It's theCUBE. Covering Microsoft Ignite. Brought to you by Cohesity, and theCUBE's Ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, everyone, to theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite here in the Orange County Civic Center in Orlando, Florida. I'm your host, Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost, Stu Miniman. We are joined by Raphael Meyerowitz, he is the VP Office of the CTO at Presidio, And Jake Smith, who is the Director Data Center Solutions and Technologies at Intel. Thank you both so much for coming back on theCUBE. You're both CUBE alums. >> Thank you for having us. >> It's great to be back. >> So, I want to start by laying out for our viewers, why you're here, and if you're part of the Microsoft ecosystem: Intel, Cisco, Dell and others. Can you explain a little bit, to our viewers, the roll you play in this ecosystem. >> Well, for us, Microsoft is a long time partner. I mean, it's pretty well documented, we don't want to go there today, but at this particular event we're announcing a bunch of new product solutions. We're announcing new technology capabilities. And at four PM we're going to announce some world record results, for performance with an operating system in an application environment. So it's a very exciting time for Intel to be a part of this event. >> Well, this is quite a tease. (giggles) Can you give us a little-- >> You're going to have to wait 'til four PM. I will say, it has to do with Windows Server. It has to do with Xeon scale of a processor family. And, our future Optane products. >> Well, so, these are all great lead ins. And, before the cameras were rolling we were talking about all of these things. You want to go through, a little bit, where we are with each of those businesses? >> Yeah, at Presidio, we've mostly been partnering with Intel for a long time. And one of the things that we've seen also, is how Intel has developed their ecosystem of partners. The software, like today, if you look at today what was in our today with desktop as a service with citrix. That's something that we have been involved in, probably, for about 10 years. And now we actually seen that come to market. We're not just, the control plane is in the cloud. But, the actual, virtual desktops are in the cloud. And, we think that that's going to be a really good viable options for our customers with Office 365. >> Raph, maybe expand on that a little bit for our audience. You know, one of the things I always say is you talk in this multi-cloud heterogeneous world. You want to follow the apps. You want to follow the data. Well, you know, the desktop is part of where those applications and data live. So, how does that, you know, tie into all the cloud stuff we've been talkin' about, the last few years? >> So, for a lot of customers, one of the reasons they move to cloud is really for simplicities sake, alright. When you look at the desktop, the desktop is really not necessarily being the most simple thing in the world. Whether it's virtual, or whether it's physical desktop. By having the control plane in the virtual desktop in the cloud, where you can consume it with Office 365. And also through Microsoft. And you can buy it through a single entity. Customers are already going to see a lot of value in that. And we think it's really going to play in the market really, really well. Upper Enterprise customers and some Healthcare customers may take a little bit more time to adapt to. >> Jake, one of the things we talk, for years, we talked about people did their upgrades based on the tick-tock of the Intel fees there. >> Correct. >> Now we're talkin' about things like, you know, Windows as a service, going Evergreen. Maybe, how does that relationship, the old traditional Wintel versus the cloud era. Upgrades. You're talkin' about the new latest generation. How do we think about that? >> You know what, I'm not going to use that, the merged term, because that's, you know. The work that Windows does on Xeon scalable processor family has been amazing. But, typically, we've done a two to three year cycle on a server release. With our new road map, which we announced in August, which you were there for, so thank you. We're actually going to release a new CPU every year. We're releasing a new CPU every year because we have to deal with the fact that cloud customers, in Azure, want to have the availability to the latest and greatest technology, right now. And partners, like Presidio and Raph's team, have developed technologies, like Concierge, which he'll talk about, that give customers the ability to manage their hybrid cloud environments, both in the cloud and on premises. When you start giving customers that flexibility they want the choice to say, I want to deploy your latest Xeon scalable processor family, Skylake processors this year, and next year, I'm going to maybe skip a year before I deploy your next version. >> Yeah, thanks Jake. One of the things that we've done at Presidio, we've tried to innovate ourselves, and we listen to our customers, and we know where our customers pain points are. So, Presidio Concierge is something that we developed from the ground up, that provides both shared space applications, provides customers with the usage on their shared space applications, how they're consuming their licenses, and also provides them with an allessor sign, so the infrastructure's a service. A lot of customers, when you talk about multi cloud, it doesn't always necessarily always mean the Harper scalers, right. It could mean shared space products, as well. So, we developed this product from the ground up in combination with Intel, and it's something that our customers are starting to use a lot, and we think that there's going to be a great grow in their first product. Some of the features that we actually give to our customers are actually for free, because we know that our customers are really battling with figuring out their usage patterns, internally. >> Well, I want to hear about those pain points. What were the problems that you were trying to solve with Concierge? >> So, some of the pain points, you know, we have customers today that get invoices from some of the public cloud companies or their service providers or with their infrastructures service. And the invoices are 50 pages long. They can never actually figure out what their true costs are. So we, through a shared space platform, that we developed from the ground up, we can provide customers with all of those metrics around their licenses. Plus, also, their usage around infrastructure as a service, as well. >> And, what has demand been like? >> The demand's been really good. Actually, when we launched product about two, three months ago, we were already at 20 customers. And we've seen a lot of interest. Presidio has about 7700 customers nationally, that we call on today. And we've grown tremendously, we have about a three billion dollar infrastructure partner today that provides both on premises and public cloud services. >> Yeah, I like, you brought up the fact that customers are looking for simplicity. Unfortunately, today, cloud is no longer simple. You know, I would say if you said, okay, If I went to my server vendor of choice and wanted to configure something, versus I went to my cloud vendor of choice and try to configure something, cloud might even be more challenging for somebody to do. But, one of the areas that we're trying to help customers get some simplicity back, is if you look at solutions like Azure Stack. So, Rebecca and I interviewed Jeffrey Snover earlier today, and that was the goal they had, was to give, kind of, that operational model and even some of the services from Azure and put them in my data center. Was wondering if Intel and Presidio are both partnering with Microsoft on this. What are you seeing, what are you hearing from customers? Any proof points as to how the roll outs are going, on there? >> We at Presidio, we are one of the first Azure Stack partners. Probably, about a year and a half ago, when it was actually announced and when it went, yeah, I think it was June of last year, and we partnered with Cisco, Dell, and also HP in the space, and we seen demand from our customers creep up. Single node solutions. We've seen demand with Single node PLC solutions are being deployed today. And then, in the public sector, we're also starting to see customers that are interested in it because it will provide them with a gateway to the public cloud in the future. >> Yeah, we're seeing the exact same thing. Obviously, we've been partnering together for some time. The beauty of Azure Stack is it's optimized for Xeon scalable processor family, as well as Intel Optane technologies, both the SSDs and in the future, our persistent memory capabilities. What we like in our work that we've done on Azure Stack and Azure Stack development, is that customers have had a lot of releases to begin to determine where Azure Stack's going to fit in their overall portfolio. And that's how you really have to look at Azure Stack, is how do you manage your portfolio between the cloud and on premises. Azure Stack is a great tool for that. >> You know, leading up to the release of Azure Stack, I talked to a number of service providers that had pent up demand. Leading up to this show, I was hearing a lot of non-North American interest. Can you give us any characterization as to how the roll out's going? >> Yeah, I think when you look at non-North American interest, there's a lot of localization, that has to take place in a lot of those countries. Maybe there's not actually an Azure, a public cloud Azure in those countries today, which is something that Microsoft is building towards. So, customers want to get used to their API's, they want to keep their data local. And when they're the same API's, on premises versus in the public cloud for all of their applications. And that's why I think you see, especially in Europe, as an example, a lot of countries in Europe where actually, data sovereignty's a big issue, alright. The data's not allowed to leave the country that they're actually in. And the demand, I think will, I always say, Microsoft, version two or version three. They always get it right. I mean, we've seen this time and time again. They've proven to us, they get this right all the time. >> I want to follow up on something you were just talking about, though with, sort of, risk management being a really big, hot opportunity. The next generation of risk management and mitigation. Can you talk a little bit about what you're doing there, and what you're hearing from customers? >> Yeah, so, Presidio developed the next generation risk management framework, called NGRM. So, we found we do a lot of security with Cisco, Palo Alto. We have a lot of security vendors out there that we deal with, but what our CIO's were really looking for is they were looking for a single dashboard that could actually provide them with a scorecard: Green, Yellow, or Red. Basically saying this is where we're at in our security strategy and this is what we need to remediate right away. They can take that to their board, they can also use that internally for all of their CSO's and also all their internal IT infrastructure personnel that they have. So, it's something that we've seen customers adopt, because it provides that analysis and the remediation and it's not necessarily tied to a specific product. Again, this is a shared space platform that we developed from the ground up, because our customers are always saying, "Well, there's always security vulnerabilities. "How can we constantly check on this?" Right? And it doesn't matter whether you're running Azure, whether you have on-premises solutions, or whether you have some other cloud provider, we can provide that holistic view for customers today. >> One of the announcements that I think surprised everyone. I mean, things like Server 2019, we all expect. The open data initiative, the commentary that we had is if you talk about digital transformation. I mean, Microsoft, Adobe and SAP. Two companies at the center of it. What does it mean? When will customers see the benefits of this? And any commentary of digital transformation in general would be great. >> Well, typically, we've been involved in a lot of these open standards, and they typically take three to five years to work their way all the way through the system and build the proper ecosystem and standards. And then work their way into the product lines. I think, in this particular instance, there is a driver. We talked about the driver of cloud and why we, we Intel, are now producing chips every year, and you're not waiting for the three year release cycle. Well, the open data initiative, I think, falls into that camp. I think you're going to see an escalated transition to the open data initiative, because people have to be able to move their workloads. Presidio recognized it very early on in the process. We've been working with them for some time. But that's one of the values that they bring to customers, is their ability to do that. But, more and more customers and more and more data are being stretched and there has to be compatibility between file systems, file format, and data classification. The open data initiative is a start in that direction. >> Yeah, I mean, one of the examples that I could give you also is we always talk about IT transformation. We have a large customer that's actually a fleet truck company that underwent IT transformation, and they came to us and they said that they actually needed telematics on the trucks in the fleet of trucks. And the reason was because a lot of these trucks are breaking down and they would send it to a mechanic and the mechanic would diagnose it. So, we actually created, in partnership with Intel and with Microsoft, this telematic platform that actually can provide the customer, in real time, with what issues they actually have with the truck. And it saves the customer a lot of money. That's the type of information that customers are looking for. This customer has on premises data, plus, also in the public cloud, and I think stretching it and providing analytics around that is really important. >> And is it possible to take away the silos? I mean, you seem to be an optimist here. >> I'm very optimistic that we can take away the silos, but I'm also realistic. The only way to take away the silos is to develop new applications, new capabilities. And as my friends in Windows Server Team will tell you, we spend a lot of time trying to figure out, how do we use virtualization and container technologies to take old legacy data and carry it forward onto new modern IT infrastructure. And when you can do that, then you can extract value from the data. If you can not take it from an old, antiquated infrastructure to a new infrastructure as Presidio has done, you stranded the data. And that's where you have those silo breakdowns. So, I think we're developing the tools, but we're not all the way there. >> Yeah, you look at Windows 2019 coming out, there's Linux support in Windows 2019. Who would ever think that Microsoft would be releasing Linux support. >> Microsoft loves Linux. >> Microsoft loves Linux now, right? >> And they will in get it. >> And they'll get it now as well. Microsoft is really developed their ecosystem. Our partners also around the open API's and what they've been doing over the past few years. And I think customers are really starting to embrace that. And you look at even another feature that's coming with Windows 2019 with Storage Spaces Direct. Right, I think Microsoft, this is really going to be their entry into the Apple convert space. Customers are going to start building, they'll have to converge platform based on Windows 2019 Data Center. >> Wondering if you can give a little more color here, Raph. You and I lived through, kind of converged and hyperconvergence, when we wrote our original research at Wikibon, it was VMware is the one that's going to get everybody talking about it, but the one eventually that will be very important here is Microsoft. 'Cause, Microsoft owns the apps. They've got the operating systems, so absolutely, they can be critical in the HCI space. What are they doing and how does Presidio and partners go to market with this? >> So, I mean, when you look at Windows 2016, Windows 2016 was really the first iteration of Storage Spaces Direct. Windows 2019 has really improved upon that, and we're starting to see customers become more interested in that. The reason is because customers want a single platform that they can easily manage with a single operating system. So, there used to be the war, as you mentioned Stu, between VMware and Harper-V. ESXi and Harper-V. I don't really see that being talked about anymore. It's more around the features and the robust features that customers can actually get on as quickly as possible. I don't know if you have anymore. >> Well Raph, you're absolutely right on. I think people have taken virtualization for granted. We added virtualization technology in Xeon in 2006 and they've sort of taken it for granted. Obviously, VMware is a big partner for both Microsoft and Intel, but the reality is is that in a hyper convergent environment, you need a file system, you need an operating system, and you need apps. And Microsoft has all that capability. As you'll hear at four o'clock, we announce world record numbers and it's spectacular. And the reason for it is in our last version of Windows Server 2016, we delivered 16 million IOP's in a hyper converged environment. That got Raph and his team off the table saying, okay, you guys are legitimate. You have a legitimate platform now. But it's not good enough. We think this new instantiation that we've already started to announce in Windows 2019, and Jeff Wolsey announced it earlier today and started talking about the features in Project Honolulu. We think those kind of transitions are what it's going to take for Enterprise customers to begin to break down those silos that you discussed, and really start to look at their data holistically, build data lakes that can scale, and build frameworks that are, I don't even want to use the term convergent anymore, but hyper scalable. >> Yeah, I mean, to tie into that, right. You look at what Intel has developed around Optane and some of the storage platforms that they've come out with. 10 years ago? Intel wasn't really known as a storage company, right? But, you look at all the storage vendors out there today, they really are putting Intel aside. And when you start looking at what Storage Spaces Direct is going to deliver and some of the robustness around Optane, we really think that it's going to be something our customers are going to embrace with Windows 2019 and future versions and sequels. >> So, Raph, I got to give Presidio a lot of credit, though. We launched a program called Intel Select Solutions, and it really allowed us to take Windows and Storage Spaces Direct and create a solution that included both the CPU, the networking, the SSD's and the memory. And Presidio has led that. And so because we have these Intel Select Solutions for Storage Spaces Direct with Presidio, we have the flexibility now to give customers package solutions that are pre-configured. >> Great. Well, Jake and Raphael, thank you so much for coming on theCUBE. It was great talking to you. >> Thank you very much. >> I'm Rebecca Knight, for Stu Miniman, we will have more of theCUBE's live coverage of Microsoft Ignite coming up just in a little bit. 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>> Narrator: Live, from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering IBM Think, 2018. Brought to you by IBM >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE, we are here on the floor at IBM Think 2018 in theCUBE studios, live coverage from IBM Think. I'm John Furrier, the host of theCUBE, and we're here with Stefanie Chiras, who is the Vice President of Offering Management IBM Cognitive Systems, that's Power Systems, a variety of other great stuff, real technology performance happening with Power, it's been a good strategic bet for IBM. Stefanie, great to see you again, thanks for coming back on theCUBE. >> Absolutely, I love to be on, John, thank you for inviting me. >> When we we had a brief (mumbles) Bob Picciano, who's heading up Power and that group, one of the things we learned is there's a lot of stuff going on that's really going to be impacting the performance of things. Just take a minute to explain what you guys are offering in this area. Where does it fit into the IBM portfolio? What's the customer use cases? Where does that offering fit in? >> Yeah, absolutely. So I think here at Think it's been a great chance for us to see how we have really transformed. You know, we have been known in the market for AIX and IBMI. We continue to drive value in that space. We just GA'd on, yesterday, our new systems, based Power9 Processor chip for AIX and IBMI in Linux. So that remains a strong strategic push. Enterprise Linux. We transformed in 2014 to embrace Linux wholeheartedly, so we really are going after now the Linux base. SAP HANA has been an incredible workload where over a thousand customers run in SAP HANA. And boy we are going after this cognitive and AI space with our performance and our acceleration capabilities, particularly around GPUs, so things like unique differentiation in our NVLink is driving our capabilities with some great announcements here that we've had in the last couple of days. >> Jamie Thomas was on earlier, and she and I were talking about some of the things around really the software stack and the hardware kind of coming together. Can you just break that out? Because I know Power, we've been covering it, Doug Balog's been on many times. A lot of great growth right out of the gate. Ecosystem formed right around it. What else has happened? And separate out where the hardware innovation is and technology and what's software and how the ecosystem and people are adopting it. Can you just take us through that? >> Yeah, absolutely. And actually I think it's an interesting question because the ecosystem actually has happened on both sides of the fence, with both the hardware side and the software side, so OpenPOWER has grown dramatically on the hardware side. We just released our Power9 processor chip, so here is our new baby. This is the Power9. >> Hold it up. >> So this is our Power9 here, 8 billion transistors, 14 miles of wiring and 17 layers of metal, I mean it's a technology wonder. >> The props are getting so small we can't even show on the camera. (laughing) >> This is the Moore's Law piece that Jenny was talking about in her keynote. >> That's exactly it. But what we have really done strategically is changed what gets delivered from the CPU to more what gets delivered at a system level, and so our IO capabilities. First chip to market, delivering the first systems to market with PCIe Gen 4. So able to connect to other things much faster. We have NVLink 2.0, which provides nearly 10x the bandwidth to transport data between this chip and a GPU. So Jensen was onstage yesterday from NVIDIA. He held up his chip proudly as well. The capabilities that are coming out from being able to transport data between the power CPU and the GPU is unbelievable. >> Talk about the relationship with NVIDIA for a second, 'cause that's also, NVIDIA stocks up a lot of (mumbles) the bitcoin mining graphics card, but this is, again, one use case, NVIDIA's been doing very well, they're doing really well in IOT, self-driving cars, where data performance is critical. How do you guys play in that? What's the relationship with NVIDIA? >> Yeah, so it has been a great partnership with NVIDIA. When we launched in 2013, right at the end of 2013 we launched OpenPOWER, NVIDIA was one of the five founding members with us, Google, Mellanox, and Tyan. So they clearly wanted to change the game at the systems value level. We launched into that with we went and jointly bid with NVIDIA and Mellanox, we jointly bid for the Department of Energy when we co-named it Coral. But that came to culmination at the end of last year when we delivered the Summit and Sierra supercomputers to Oak Ridge and Lawrence Livermore. We did that with innovation from both us and NVIDIA, and that's what's driving things like this capability. And now we bring in software that exploits it. So that NVLink connection between the CPU and the GPU, we deliver software called PowerAI, we've optimized the frameworks to take advantage of that data transport between that CPU and GPU so it makes it consumable. With all of these things it's not just about the technology, it's about is it easy to consume at the software level? So great announcement yesterday with the capabilities to do logistic regression. Unbelievable, taking the ability to do advertising analytics, taking it from 70 minutes to 1 and 1/2. >> I mean we're going to geek out here. But let's go under the hood for a second. This is a really kind of a high end systems product, at the kind of performance levels. Where does that connect to the go to market? Who's the buyer of it? Is it OEMs? Is it integrators? Is it new hardware devices? How do I get involved and who's the target customer? And what kind of developers are you reaching? Can you just take us through that who's buying this product? >> So this is no longer relegated to the elite set. What we did, and I think this is amazing, when we delivered the Summit and Sierra, right? Huge cluster of these nodes. We took that same node, we pulled it into our product line as the AC922, and we delivered a 4 GPU air-cooled version to market. On December 22nd we GA'd, of last year. And we sold to over 40 independent clients by the end of 2017, so that's a short runway. And most of it, honestly, is all driven around AI. The AI adoption, and it's a cross enterprise. Our goal is really to make sure that the enterprises who are looking at AI now with their developer are ready to take it into production. We offer support for the frameworks on the system so they know that when they do development on this infrastructure, they can take it to production later. So it's very much driven toward taking AI to the enterprise, and it's all over. It's insurance, it's financial services sector. It's those kinds of enterprise that are using AI. >> So IO sensitive, right? So IOT not a target or maybe? >> So you know when we talk out to edge it's a little bit different, right? So the IOT today for us is driving a lot of data, that's coming in, and then you know at different levels-- >> There's not a lot of (mumbles) power needed at the edge. >> There is not, there is not. And it kind of scales in. We are seeing, I would say, kind of progression of that compute moving out closer. Whether or not it's on, it doesn't all come home necessarily anymore. >> Compute is being pushed to where the data is. >> Stefanie: Absolutely right. >> That's head room for you guys. Not a priority now because there's not an intense (mumbles) compute can solve that. >> Stefanie: That's right. >> All right, so where does the Cloud fit into it? You guys powering IBMs Cloud? >> So IBM Cloud has been a great announcement this year as well. So you've seen the focus here around AI and Cloud. So we announced that HANA will come on Power into the Cloud, specializing in large memory sets, so 24 terabyte memory sets. For clients that's huge to be able to exploit that-- >> Is IBM Cloud using Power or not? >> That will be in IBM Cloud. So go to IBM Cloud, be able to deploy an SAP certified HANA on Power deployment for large memory installs, which is great. We also announced PowerAI access, on Power9 technology in IBM Cloud. So we definitely are partnering both with IMB Cloud as well as with the analytics pieces. Data Science Experience available on Power. And I think it's very important, what you said earlier, John, about you want to bring the capabilities to where the data is. So things like a lot of clients are doing AI on prem where we can offer a solution. You can augment that with capabilities like Watson, right? Off prem. You can also do dev ops now with AI in the IBM Cloud. So it really becomes both a deployment model, but the client needs to be able to choose how they want to do it. >> And the data can come from multiple sources. There's always going to be latencies. So what about blockchain? I want to get to blockchain. Are you guys doing anything in the blockchain ecosystem? Obviously one complaint we've been hearing, obviously, is some of these cryptocurrency chains like Ethereum, has performance issues, they got projects coming out. A lot of open source in there. Is Power even puttin' their toe in the water with blockchain? >> We have put our toe in the water. Blockchain runs on Power. From an IBM portfolio perspective-- >> IBM blockchain runs on Power or blockchain, or other blockchains? >> Like Hyperledger. Like Hyperledger will run. So open source, blockchain will run on Power, but if you look at the IBM portfolio, the security capabilities in Z14 that that brings and pulling that into IBM Cloud, our focus is really to be able to deliver that level of security. So we lead with system Z in that space, and Z has been incredible with blockchain. >> Z is pretty expensive to purchase, though. >> But now you can purchase it in the Cloud through IBM Cloud, which is great. >> Awesome, this is the benefit of the Cloud. Sounds like soft layer is moving towards more of a Z mainframe, Power, backend? >> I think the IBM Cloud is broadening the capabilities that it has, because the workloads demand different things. Blockchain demands security. Now you can get that in the Cloud through Z. AI demands incredible compute strength with GPU acceleration, Power is great for that. And now a client doesn't have to choose. They can use the Cloud and get the best infrastructure for the workload they want, and IBM Cloud runs it. >> You guys have been busy. >> We've been busy. (laughing) >> Bob Picciano's been bunkered in. You guys have been crankin' out... love to do a deeper dive on this, Stefanie, and so we'd love to follow up with you guys, and we told Bob we would dig into that, too. Question I have for you now is, how do you talk about this group that you're building together? You know, the names are all internal IBM names, Power... Is it like a group? Do you guys call yourself like the modern infrastructure group? Is it like, what is it called, if you had to explain it to outside IBM, AIs easy, I know what AI team does. You're kind of doing AI. You're enabling AI. Are you a modern infrastructure? What is the pillar are you under? >> Yeah, so we sit under IBM systems, and we are definitely systems proud, right? Everything runs on infrastructure somewhere. And then within that three spaces you certainly have Z storage, and we empower, since we've set our sites on AI and cognitive workloads, internally we're called IBM Cognitive Systems. And I think that's really two things, both a focus on the workloads and differentiation we want to bring to clients, but also the fact that it's not just about the hardware, we're now doing software with things like PowerAI software, optimized for our hardware. There's magic that happens when the software and the hardware are co-optimized. >> Well if you look, I mean systems proud, I love that conversation because you look at the systems revolution that I grew up in, the computer science generation of the 80s, that was the open movement, BSD, pre-Linux, and then now everything about the Cloud and what's going on with AI and what I call the innovation sandwich with data in the middle and blockchain and AI as bread. >> Stefanie: Yep. >> You have all the perfect elements of automation, you know, Cloud. That's all going to be powered by a system. >> Absolutely. >> Especially operating systems skills are super imprtant. >> Super important. Super important. >> This is the foundational elements. >> Absolutely, and I think your point on open, that has really come in and changed how quickly this innovation is happening, but completely agree, right? And we'll see more fit for purpose types of things, as you mentioned. More fit for purpose. Where the infrastructure and the OS are driving huge value at a workload level, and that's what the client needs. >> You know, what dev ops proved with the Cloud movement was you can have programmable infrastructure. And what we're seeing with blockchain and decentralized web and AI, is that the real value, intellectual property, is going to be the business logic. That is going to be dealing with now a whole 'nother layer of programmability. It used to be the other way around. The technology determined >> That's right. >> the core decision, so the risk was technology purchase. Now that this risk is business model decision, how do you code your business? >> And it's very challenging for any business because the efficiency happens when those decisions get made jointly together. That's when real business efficiency. If you make one decision on one side of the line or the other side of the line only, you're losing efficiency that can be driven. >> And open is big because you have consensus algorithms, you got regulatory issues, the more data you're exposed to, and more horsepower that you have, this is the future, perfect storm. >> Perfect storm. >> Stefanie, thanks for coming on theCUBE, >> It's exciting. >> Great to see you. >> Oh my pleasure John, great to see you. >> You're awesome. Systems proud here in theCUBE, we're sharing all the systems data here at IBM Think. I'm John Furrier, more live coverage after this short break. All right.

>> Announcer: Live from Nice, France, it's The Cube covering Dot Next Conference 2017, Europe. Brought to you by Nutanix. (techno music) >> Welcome back, I'm Stu Miniman happy to welcome back to our program, from the IBM Cognitive Systems Group, we have Bob Picciano and Stefanie Chiras. Bob, fresh off the keynote, uh speech. Went a little bit long but glad we could get you in. Um, I think when the, when the IBM Power announcement with Nutanix got out there, a lot of people were trying to put the pieces together and understand. You know, we with The Cube we've, we've been tracking, you know, Power for quite a while, Open Power, all the things but, but I have to admit that even myself, it was like, okay, I understand cognitive systems. We got all this AI things and everything but on the stage this morning, you kind of talked a little bit about the chipset and the bandwidth. You know, things like GPUs and utilization, you know, explain to us, you know, what is resonating with customers and, you know, where, you know, what's different about this because a lot of the other ones it's like, oh well, you know, software runs a lot of places and it doesn't matter that much. What's important about cognitive systems for Nutanix? >> Yeah, so, first off, thanks Stu. And, as always, thanks for, you know, you for following us and understanding what we're doing. You mentioned not just Power but you mentioned Open Power, and I think that's important. It shows, actually, the deeper understanding. You know, we've come a long way in a very short amount of time with what we've done with Open Power. Open Power was very much at it's core about really making Power a natural choice for industry standard Linux, right? The Linuxes that used to run on Power a couple of generations ago were more proprietary Linuxes. They were Big Endian Linux but Open Power was about making all that industry standard software run on top of Power where we knew our value proposition would shine based on how much optimization we put into our cores and how much optimization we put into IO bandwidth and memory bandwidth. And boy, you know, have we been right. In fact, when we take an industry standard workload like a no sequel database or Enterprise DB, or a Mongoloid DB, Hadoop, and put it on top of Linux, an industry standard Linux, on top of Power, we typically see that run about 2X to 3X better price performance on Linux on Power than it would on Linux on Intel. This is a repeating pattern. And so, what we're trying to do here is uh, really enable that same efficiency and economics to the Nutanix Hyper Converged Space. And remember, all these things about insight based applications, artificial intelligence, are all about data intensive workloads. Data intensive workloads and that's what we do best. So we're bringing the best of what we do and the optionality now for these AI workloads and cognitive systems right into the heart of what Nutanix is pivoting to as well. Which is really at the, at the core of the enterprise for data intensive workloads. Not just, you know, edge related VDI based workloads. Stefanie will you, you want to comment on that a little bit as well. >> Yeah, we are so focused on being prioritized and what space we go after in the Linux market around these data centric and AI workloads. And at the end of the day, you know, Nutanix has Nutanix states. It's about invisible infrastructure, but the infrastructure underneath matters. And now with the simplicity of what Nutanix brings you can choose the best infrastructure for the workloads that you decide to run, all with single pane of glass management. So it allows us to bring our capabilities at the infrastructure levels for those workloads, into a very simplest, simple deployment model under a Nutanix private cloud. >> Yeah, I, I think back when, you know, we had things like, when Hadoop came out, you know, we got all these new modern databases, >> Right. >> You know, I wanted to change the infrastructure but simplicity sure wasn't there. >> Yep. >> Uh-huh. >> It was a couple of servers sitting under the desk, okay, but when you needed to scale, when you needed to manage the environment, um, it was challenging. We, we saw, when, you know, Wikibon for years was doing, you know, research on big data and it was like, ah, you know, half the deployments are failing because, you know, it wasn't what they expected. >> Right. >> The performance wasn't there, the cost was challenging. So it feels like we're kind of, you know, turn the corner on, you know, making, putting the pieces together to make these solutions workable. >> I think we are. I think Dheeraj and his team, Sunil, they've done a wonderful job on making the one click simplicity, ease of deployment, ease of manageability. We saw today, creation of availability zones. High availability infrastructure. Very very simplistic. So, you know, as, you know, I've had other segments with Dave and John in the past, we've always talked about, it's not about big data, it's about really creating the ability to get fast actionable insights. So it's a confluence of that date environment, the processed based workflow environment, and then making that all simple. And this feels like a very natural way to accomplish that. >> I want to understand, if I caught right, it's not Power or x86 but it's really putting the right workloads in the, in the right place. >> That's right. >> Did I get that right? >> That's right. >> What, what are the customer deployments, you know? >> Heterogeneity is key. >> How do I then manage those environments because, you know, I, I want kind of homogeneity of, of management, even if I have heterogeneity, you know, in, in my environment, you know. What, what are you hearing from your customers? >> I think how we've looked at Linux evolved. The set of workloads that are being run on Linux have evolved so dramatically from where they started to running companies and being much more aggressive on compute intensive. So it's about when you bring total cost of ownership which requires the ability to simply manage your operations in a data center. Now the best of Prism capabilities along with the Acropolis stack allows simplicity of single pane of glass management for you to run your Power node, set of nodes, side by side with your x86 set of nodes. So what you want to run on x86 or Windows can now be run seamlessly and compatible with your data centric workloads and data driven workloads, or AI workloads on your Power nodes. It really is about bringing total cost of ownership down. And that really requires accessibility and it requires simplicity of management. And that's what this partnership really brings. It's a new age for hyper converged. >> Yeah. >> What should we be looking for, for the partnership, kind of over the next 12 years, 12, 12 months. (laughs) >> 12 years? (laughs) (laughter) >> 12 years might be a little tough to predict, but over the next year, what, what should we be looking for the partnership? You know, I think back you talked about, Open Powered Google is, you know, a big partner there. Is there a connection? Am I drawing lines between, you know, Nutanix and Google and what you're doing? >> I won't comment on that yet but, you know, but, as you know we have a big rollout coming up as we're getting ready to launch Power Nine. So there'll be more news on some of those fronts as we go through the coming weeks. And I hope to see you down in Dallas at our Cloud or Cognitive event. Or at one of the other events we'll be jointly at where we do some of these announcements. But if you think about where this naturally takes us, Sunil talked about mode one and mode two applications. So what we want to see is increasing that catalog for mode one applications. So things that I'd like to see is an expanded set of relationships around what we both do in the SAP space. I'd like to see that catalog of support enriched for what's out there on top of the Linux on Power space, where we know our value proposition will continue to be demonstrated both in total cost of acquisition as well as total cost of ownership. >> Yeah. >> I mean, we're really, you know, seeing some great results on our Linux base. As you know, it's now about 20 percent of the power revenue base is from Linux. >> Uh-huh. >> And that's grown from a very small amount just a few years ago. So, I look to see that and then I would look at more heterogeneity in terms of the support of what we do, both in Linux and maybe, in the future, also what we do to support the AIX workloads, uh, with Nutanix as well. Because I do think our clients are asking about that optionality. They have big investments, mission critical workloads around AIX and the want to start to bring those worlds together. >> Alright and Stefanie, want to give you the final word, you know, anything kind of learnings that you've had, of the relationships as you've been getting out and getting into those customer environments. >> I have to say the excitement coming in from the sales team, from our clients, and from the business partners have been incredible. It really is about the coming together of, not only two spaces of simple, and absolutely the best infrastructure and being able to optimize from bottom to top, but it's about taking hyper converge to a new set of workloads. A new space. Um, so the excitement is just incredible. I am thrilled to be here at Dot Next and be able to talk to our clients and partners about it. >> Alright well Stefanie and Bob thank you so much for joining us. >> Thanks Stu. >> Thank you Stu. >> Sorry we had to do a short segment but we'll be catching ya up at many more. Alright so we'll be back with lots more coverage here from Nutanix Dot Next in Nice, France. I'm Stu Miniman, you're watching The Cube. (techno music)