>>The Cube presents UI Path Forward five. Brought to you by UI Path. >>Welcome back to The Cube's, continuous coverage with day two of UI Path forward. Five. My name is Dave Ante. I'm here with my co-host Dave Nicholson. And you are watching The Cube. It's all about the robots, the automations, the transformations and beyond. Audi Gana is here. She's group executive at Vodacom and Niva is back. She's senior director of telecommunications industry for UiPath. Ladies, welcome to the Cube. >>I thank you very much. >>So Vodacom a leading telco in in Africa across the continent. Tell us more about the company. >>The company is a traditionally telecommunications company, but our vision 2025 is first to transition from being a telco to a technology company. So you'll find that a lot of the use cases that we've actually started embarking on, combined the combination of telco and FinTech. And we've got a lot of RPA bot also supporting the FinTech platform, which is quite a major step in our strategy. >>So, you know, it's interesting Mark Andreessen's famous comment, Every company's a software company. I like to think every company's a technology company, technology driven. So what does that actually mean for you? Is it like a split brain between FinTech? Cuz it's pretty clear that FinTech is always a highly, you know, technology oriented and telecom. Are they sort of together driving a, a technology business? How does that >>Work? It's, it's a, it's a converge use of the technology to add value to the customer. So what we wanna do is to get to the point where we have converged services where the Telecommunicate, cuz at the end of the day in the African market, you'll find that there's a lot of markets that are unbanked. So you find that a cell phone is a means of communication and a a mobile platform for the users. So it's a natural progression for our company to actually play in both spaces. And I think one of the things I find quite interesting is the levels of trust that a lot of citizens have in our financial platform. In that even some of the governments are paying social grants using the platform. And so it almost becomes, without the phones a lot of people cannot function type of scenario. >>Nevas is your role a global role? >>Yes, it is a global role. >>Okay. So it's interesting cause you're I think based down under, right? I am. Is that true? Okay. Obviously spent some time in, in, in the African continent. How are you, what are you seeing in terms of the, the trends in, in telecommunications that, and are you noticing there's gotta be differences across different regions? You know, a lot of times you hear, oh no, there's really kind of a global world out and I know it is, but telco seems to be one of the industries that has some uniqueness within the different breaches. What are you seeing? >>Look, we are privileged to work with more than 200 telecoms around the world. But clearly from a technology perspective, there are some regions that have embraced technology sooner than the others, particularly when it comes to automation. Now we do have use cases with all of them that we are, you know, the 200 we are working with. But the extent to which they become strategic partners, Varie is, you know, what I find is in, in the US we are doing a lot in the customer experience space with the telecoms in aj it's more back of house. And with telecoms like Vodacom, it's really strategic. You know, automation is being applied practically in every facet of work. And you know, sometimes that could be because the demand is just so great for connectivity, you know, at times there's a skills gap, but it does vary. But what's reassuring is that there is a journey and you know, at this event what I have seen is telecoms wanting to learn from other telecoms. And I must say Artie has been in huge demand. We did about 22 meetings yesterday with others wanting to know, which again is that strategic trend. >>Artie, my understanding is you've been at this for a while, this automation journey for quite some time and p i pass. Interesting. I mean it's a company that's founded in 2005 and kind of did sort of its own thing for a long time and then realized it had lightning in a bottle Yeah. For a mid last decade. But my understanding is you've seen it all. You've seen the, the legacy platforms. And so tell me about your personal journey with automation and then the companies. >>Okay, so there's the automation pre rpa, which was strangely enough, I come from banking, got a finance degree, did automated ations in one of the bigger banks. And somehow I transitioned. And I mean from a history perspective, the one of the previous platforms, which was the biggest one at the time, that's where I got to learn about rpa. And then there's another vendor that we then use in another company. So this is almost my third vendor that I'm experiencing in the RPA space. Having joined RPA space in 2015, apparently I'm kind of a veteran, >>So, So what are you seeing is what's the difference between, I mean let's call UI path, that was sort of a modern focus on simple to deploy. That's really how they get started when I first found them. How do you compare what UiPath has? And there are others, there are other modern platforms to sort of the legacy platforms. What's the >>Difference? I think it's the diversity and the applicability of the technology across multiple industries is something that still amazes me up until today. Because the kind of customers I've been meeting today, I, I would not, I met a guy who owns an ice cream company and I'm like, where would automation come in here? But he's actually quite a big customer of, of UiPath, you know. So I think that's one thing I appreciate. I think the ease of use, it has actually allowed for a lot of people to be part of the digital transformation. I think in the his, in the past technology has been seen as something that was a bit elite and that you needed to have X amount of skills and level of education. Whereas the RPA industry has almost bridged that gap in actually bringing along as many people in the journey in terms of digital transformation. And the fourth industrial revolution is now starting to become more inclusive >>Horizontal across industries. >>Yeah. >>So Vodacom headquartered in South Africa. Okay. But presence throughout the continent. Yes. I imagine that various geographies have various twists and quirks to them and different needs. But as a general premise, the African continent has led the rest of the world in terms of embracing these little mobile devices for the most mission. Critical from a personal perspective things, right? Yeah. So if you, if you're already trusting all of your finances and even interaction with your government from a financial perspective. Yeah. When you say technology platform technology is moving forward, what's more critical from that? Or how do you, how do you, how do you branch off from that? What are some of the other things that you can share with us that you're looking towards in the future that may, that that may trickle over here eventually? >>So I think what one of the things we started playing around with quite well is actually the convergence of machine learning, AI and rpa. You would find that a lot of research will tell you that this is the future of the automation and for us, we are actually living the future in that we have civil use cases that are actually extracting a lot of business value. Where we've realized that RPA in of itself, and this is obviously oversimplifying the technology is almost the unlimited hands on keyboards that you could ever have, right? And then machine learning and AI almost the becomes the unlimited brains. So when you then combine the tool, you almost have this strong technology that can revolutionize how we operate and service our customers. >>Well how do, how does that translate? Can you translate that into a user experience at this point? So I mean, we're talking about people who they, they have a motor license, they don't have a desktop computer at home. Yeah. This is their portal into the world. >>So you find that if you're speaking pure telco, and I'm obviously over simplifying there some nowhere an engineer, right? But I think at, at a very simplified level, there's a lot of legacy technology that is used in the telco space and you'll find that because of that, there's a lot of lack of integration. And you'll find that the reasons why a lot of customers call corners is because there's poor integration in a lot of instances. And it's, it's, it's, it's ad hoc. So it's not as if the system is failed completely. So what we've now done is to try and see how do we use machine learning to pick up on those anomalies on the network, right? And because each time something breaks, right, it's almost a fixed way to fix it and therefore the machine learning picking up there normally almost the hands over to the RPA bot to fix the problem within the network element. But that means is that from a customer experience perspective, instead of you actually realizing there's a problem, we've fixed it before you even know that there's a problem. And therefore, and as you can imagine, it means that you then call the course into less because now you don't have the reason to complain because we've proactively identified the problem and we proactively use RPA then to fix it. So we almost have the almost like a self-healing element in within the, the, the RPA AI space. >>You know, I think of, we don't talk about the data, we haven't talked about the data much this week. I think in many respects this industry is, is data industry. Our automation is all about what you can do with the data. You said unlimited hands, unlimited brains. Cuz to me you have unlimited data and a lot of times you just can't handle it. Yeah. So what's the data angle on all this? >>So firstly, I know a lot of people will say data is the new oil. No, >>Right? So I would never >>Say that. I always though, I think I always ask people if I give you a bucket of brain crude oil, right? What are you gonna do with it? Right? Right. And similar to data, right? So I want to almost equate data to that crude oil element, but if you don't know how to refine it, process it, get it to be reliable, it's very useless in of its natural sense. So I think one of the things we've realized is that leveraging of the analogy of the, the machine learning in the brain, if you are in the sales space, you forever trying to push new sales, right? And then chances are when a customer leaves you, you are almost in a reactor state. So, and I imagine a world where you could proactively identify a customer with the propensity to leave your company because a lot of customers don't just, they are situations where they'll be walking down the street competitor calls them, they leave, not because they were unhappy, but a lot of customers actually had several engagements with us that were not pleasant, whatever the definition is. >>So we then saw there was almost five types of attributes that resulted in customers leaving us. So what then that said was imagine if you are an account manager, right? And you got told UiPath P two I limited has experienced 1, 2, 3, 4. Right? Actually, please go engage with them because something is happening. It means that as an account manager, you are then equipped to have a meaningful engagement with the customer because you're saying, hi UiPath, I see you've had X amount of job calls and you've had x amount of complaints in our call center. What is happening is it could be, could be your network, maybe the tower where you are, do you, And then the conversation becomes so meaningful. And I think even during covid what we found is lot of customers started using less of our data, not because they were unhappy, but it became an affordability thing, right? >>Because this is a thousands and thousands of, of data elements and pieces around Yeah. About customer transactions. There's no way one human would be able to go through all of the data and make me meaningful decisions out of it. So we then found that some customers were complaining about affordability. So we then built another model that says if an account manager is talking to a customer and they're struggling from an affordability perspective, what's the next best offer you can make to your customer while you're engaging? And then if in, if, if now your UiPath takes up that offer, then you'd find that the bot does the post engagement provisioning on the system. Because now if you then said, I've only, I can only afford 10 lines, but only pay 10 gigs, but not 10 lines and 20 gigs, that is at least better than us losing the customer. >>Yeah. Right? And we offering them almost a downward migration type of situation. Then the bot does that on the system. So you would find that we almost playing in the space of a human, human centered, intelligent automation where machine learning becomes the brain, the person is amplified in how they operate at the customer. And then the RPA bot becomes the hands that executes on that. And as the account manager you focusing on engagement and convincing, which is really what people are great and selling as opposed to going through all of the pro cause VOCA is a lot of products. So as opposed to having a person going through the products and trying to find the best product for you, you know, so we, we are using machine learning to assist the >>Humans. I I mean in every, every interaction is consistent in that case. I know I sometimes have to call three or four times to find a professional that knows enough that can help me. Yes. Such a frustrating thing as a consumer. So you are, are you, you're attacking churn with automation. So we haven't even talked about how you guys are working together, your journey and all that stuff, but, but how are you guys working here? What are you, what are you doing? You know, in addition to what you just described with with ui. iPad? >>So I think my portfolio's quite wide. So I am, my team is in every single vertical in the organization from customer care to the consumer enterprise business units to finance technology, network compliance. And we do all of this in about six countries, right? So one of the things we've actually realized is that if we are looking at customer service, we wanted to understand why do customers call us? And I think I came from a point of ignorance because I'm not from telco, so I actually realized that if we're talking billing and finance revenue assurance, customers call us because we build them arly. But technically speaking it's our systems that there's something that resulted in the customer calling us. So why do we not know about our own systems? Why are we waiting for the customers to call us? And literally those are the questions I was asking cuz I felt like why are we, why are we waiting for the customers to call us? >>So we then then found a way to try and see within the billing systems where do the breakages happen, right? So that we fix them before the customer has to call us again. So then again from a billing perspective, it means that cuz it the billing element can come in two ways where we are giving you a service and not charging you for it. We then have revenue leakage or we, you are consuming something and we are overcharging you. Then you call us and say, Whatcom is stealing my data. Yeah, you're right out there. I promise you nobody wakes up in the morning and wants to take one gig of your data. So it almost becomes a day integrity initiative that results in good customer service but then result in eradication of course. As opposed to us waiting for customers to tell us what the problem is and trying to help them fast. Cuz that's generally always been what I've picked up the energy around customer service. How do we help you fast? I'm saying why must you call us when our systems had fail that? So we almost trying to see how do we use the technology internally to give customers a better experience and then also have the financial benefits that we are now starting to see happening in the, >>What's the scope of, of your like how many automations, how many bots? Can you give us a sense >>Of this? So right now I think we over on with all of the four, five countries that we are in, we over 400 bots. Wow. Okay. So we started in 2004 years ago, this is my fourth year in Voca. We, and we are not using just one product with UiPath. It became a platform because as we became across more kinds of problems, I think what I've appreciated about part is how we've actually created a partnership. Instead of them trying to sell me products for the sake of consuming products, it became a, this is my problem, right? And then somehow they would whip out the product that solves my problem type of thing. So it became a ecosystem of solutions that >>You must love hanging out with Artie. >>I absolutely do and love, you know, I've spent a career in telecommunications myself and you know, the best days were when you could deliver an outstanding customer experience. And as you can see from what Artie has achieved when you were more proactive and predictive, you can serve your customers so much more effectively and that just lift the morale of the team because we all, you know, have this purpose in doing our jobs. But this is automation and AI built into every part of that customer journey. So end to end, you know, the customer's much happier. You know there's a problem before the customer knows you can solve the problem in most cases before they even know. And that's just what we are all in business to do to make things better. >>Great story. Thank you so much for sharing. Appreciate coming back >>In the queue. Thank you very much. Thank >>You. Thank you for watching. Keep it right there. Don't forget, go to silicon angle.com, all the news, go to the cube.net. You'll see me all these videos are available on demand as well as the other events that we do. Dave VTE for Dave Nicholson. Keep it right there. Right back at forward five UI.

>> from Palo Alto, California It's the Cube covering the EM Where women Transforming technology twenty nineteen. Brought to You by VM Wear >> Hi Lisa Martin with the Cube on the ground at the end. Where in Palo Alto, California, for the fourth annual Women Transforming Technology, even W. T. Squared on event that is near and dear to my heart. Excited to welcome back to the Cube pretty much. Rog Lachman, engineering leader, blocked in at the end where pretty much It's so great to have you back on the Cube. Thank you, Lisa. It's amazing to be here, and I can't believe it's been a year, a year. And so last year, when Protein was here, she launched her book. Nevertheless, she persistent love the title You just Did a session, which we'LL get to in a second, but I'd love to get your your experiences in the last year about the book launch. What's the feedback? Ben? What are some of the things that have made me feel great and surprised you at the same time? It's been fantastic. I wasn't expecting that when I started to write this book. It was more like I want to impact one woman's life. But what was interesting is I delivered around twenty twenty five talks last year. My calendar's booked for this year, but every time I go give a talk, my Lincoln goes crazy and I'm connecting with all these women and men. And it's just fantastic because they're basically resonating with everything I talk about in the book. I spoke at the Federal Reserve. Wow, I was like, This is a book on tech and they were like, No, this impacts all of us And I spoke to a group of lawyers and actually, law firms have fifty fifty when they get into law, right when they get into whenever I mean live, I'm not that familiar with it. But getting to partner is where they don't have equality or diversity, and it's resonated. So now I'm like, maybe I should just take the word check out What? You It's been impactful. And so last year was all about companies, so I did. You know, I spoke at uber I spoken Veum, where spoken nutanix it's looking a lot of these companies last year. This year is all about schools, fantastic schools of all different type, so I you know, I've done a talk at San Jose State. I went to CMU. They invited me over Carnegie Mellon. I supported the robotics team, which is all girls team. Nice. And it was fantastic because these girls high school kids were designing robots. They were driving these robots. They were coding and programming these robots and was an all girls team. And I asked them, I said, But you're excluding the men and the boys and they said no. When it's a combined boy girls team, the women end up the girls and organizing the men of the boys are actually writing the code. They're doing the drilling there, doing all that. And so the girls don't get to do any of that. And I was looking at just the competition and as watching these teams, the boy girl steams and those were all organizing. And I thought, this is exactly what happens in the workforce. You're right. Yeah. We come into the workforce, were busy organizing, coordinating and all that, and the men are driving the charge. And that's why these kids where this is at high school, Yeah, thirteen to seventeen, where this is becoming part of their cultural upbringing. Exactly. Pretty. In great. Yes, yes. And a very young age. So that was fascinating. I think that surprised me. You know, you were asking me what surprised you that surprised me. And what also surprised me was the confidence. Though these girls were doing all these things. I've never built a robot. I would love to. I haven't built a robot, and they were doing all these amazing things, and I thought, Oh, my God, >> they're like, >> confident women. But they were not. And it was because they felt that there was too much to lose. They don't want to take risks, they don't want to fail. And it was that impostor syndrome coming back so that conditioning happens way more impossible syndrome is something that I didn't even know what it wass until maybe the last five or six years suddenly even just seeing that a very terse description of anyone Oh, my goodness, it's not just me. And that's really a challenge that I think the more the more it's brought to light, the more people like yourself share stories. But also what your book is doing is it's not just like you were surprised to find out It's not just a tech. This is every industry, Yes, but his pulse syndrome is something that maybe people consider it a mental health issue and which is so taboo to talk about. But I just think it's so important to go. You're not alone. Yeah, vast majority men, women, whatever culture probably have that. Let's talk about that. Let's share stories. So that your point saying why I was surprised that these young girls had no confidence. Maybe we can help. Yes, like opening up. You know, I'm sharing it being authentic. Yeah. So I'm looking at my second book, which basically says what the *** happens in middle school? Because what happens is somewhere in middle school, girls drop out, so I don't know what it is. I think it's Instagram or Facebook or boys or sex. I don't know what it is, but something happens there. And so this year of my focus is girls and you know, young girls in schools and colleges. And I'm trying to get as much research as I can in that space to see what is going on there, because that totally surprised me. So are you kind of casting a wide net and terms like as you're. Nevertheless, she persisted. Feedback has shown you it's obviously this is a pervasive, yes issue cross industry. This is a global pandemic, yes, but it's your seeing how it's starting really early. Tell me a little bit about some of the things that we can look forward to in that book. So one thing that's important is bravery, Which reshma So Johnny, who's the CEO off girls code? She has this beautiful quote, she says. We raise our voice to be brave, and we'd raise our girls to be perfect, pretty telling. And so we want to be perfect. We won't have the perfect hair, the perfect bodies. We want a perfect partner. That never happens. But we want all that and because we want to be perfect, we don't want to take risks, and we're afraid to fail. So I want to focus on that. I want to talk to parents. I want to talk to the kids. I want to talk to teachers, even professors, and find out what exactly it is like. What is that conditioning that happens, like, why do we raise our girls to be perfect because that impacts us at every step of our lives. Not even careers. It's our lives. Exactly. It impacts us because we just can't take that risk. That's so fascinating. So you had a session here about persistent and inclusive leadership at W T squared forth and you will tell me a little bit about that session today. What were some of the things that came up that you just said? Yes, we're on the right track here. So I started off with a very depressing note, which is twenty eighty five. That's how long it's gonna take for us to see equality. But I talked about what we can do to get to twenty twenty five because I'm impatient. I don't want to wait twenty eighty five I'LL be dead by them. We know you're persistent book title. You know, my daughter will be in the seventies. I just don't want that for her. So, through my research, what I found is we need not only women to lean in. You know, we've have cheryl sound. We're talking about how women need to lean in, and it's all about the women. And the onus is on the woman the burdens on the woman. But we actually need society. Selena. We need organizations to lean in, and we need to hold them accountable. And that's where we're going to start seeing that changes doing that. So if you take the m r. I. You know, I've been with him for ten years, and I always ask myself, Why am I still here? One of the things we're trying to do is trying to take the Cirrus early this morning rail Farrell talked about like on the panel. He said, We are now Our bonuses are tied to, you know, domestic confusion, like we're way have to hire, you know, not just gender, right, Like underrepresented communities as well. We need to hire from there, and they're taking this seriously. So they're actually making this kind of mandatory in some sense, which, you know, it kind of sucks in some ways that it has to be about the story that weighing they're putting a stake in the ground and tying it to executive compensation. Yes, it's pretty bold. Yes. So organizations are leaning in, and we need more of that to happen. Yeah. So what are some of the things that you think could, based on the first *** thing you talked about the second one that you think could help some of the women that are intact that are leaving at an alarming rate for various reasons, whether it's family obligations or they just find this is not an environment that's good for me mentally. What are some of the things that you would advise of women in that particular situation? First thing is that it's to be equal partnership at home. A lot of women leave because they don't have that. They don't have that support on having that conversation or picking the right partner. And if you do pick the wrong partner, it's having that conversation. So if you have equal partnership at home, then it's both a careers that's important. So you find that a lot of women leave tech or leave any industry because they go have babies, and that happens. But it's just not even that, like once they get past that, they come backto work. It's not satisfying because they don't get exciting projects to work on that you don't get strategic projects, they don't have sponsors, which is so important toward the success, and they they're you know, people don't take a risk on them, and they don't take a risk. And so these are some of those things that I would really advice women. And, you know, my talk actually talked about that. Talked about how to get mail allies, how to get sponsors. Like what? You need to actually get people to sponsor you. Don't talk to me a little bit more about that. We talk about mentors a lot. But I did talk this morning with one of our guests about the difference between a sponsor and a mentor. I'd love you to give Sarah some of your advice on how women can find those sponsors. And actually, we activate that relationship. So mentors, uh, talk to you and sponsors talk about okay. And the way to get a sponsor is a is. You do great work. You do excellent work. Whatever you do, do it well. And the second thing is B is brag about it. Talk about it. Humble bragging, Yeah. Humble bragging talkabout it showcases demo it and do it with people who matter in organizations, people who can notice your work building that brand exactly. And you find that women are all the men toward and under sponsored. Interesting, Yes. How do you advise that they change that? There was a Harvard study on this. They found that men tend to find mentors are also sponsors. So what they do is, you know, I like you to stick pad girl singer, he says. Andy Grove was his mentor, but Andy Grove was also his sponsor in many ways, in for his career at Intel, he was a sponsor and a mental. What women tend to do is we find out like even me, like I have female spot him. Mentors were not in my organization, and they do not have the authority to advocate for me. They don't They're not sitting in an important meeting and saying, Oh, patina needs that project for team needs to get promoted. And so I'm not finding the right mentors who can also be my sponsors, or I'm not finding this one says right, and that's happens to us all the time. And so the way we have to switch this is, you know, mentors, a great let's have mentors. But let's laser focus on sponsors, and I've always said this all of last year. I'm like the key to your cell. Success is sponsorship, and I see that now. I am in an organization when my boss is my sponsor, which is amazing, because every time I go into a meeting with him, he says, This is about pretty much grew up. This is a pretty mers group. It's not me asking him. He's basically saying It's pretty nose grow, which is amazing to hear because I know he's my mentor in sponsor as well. And it's funny when I gave him a copy of my book and I signed it and I said, And he's been my sponsor to be more for like ten years I said, Thank you for being my sponsor and he looked at me. He said, Oh, I never realized it was your sponsor So that's another thing is men themselves don't know they're in this powerful position to have an impact, and they don't know that they are sponsors as well. And so we need. We need women to Fox and sponsors. I always say find sponsors. Mentorship is great, but focus of sponsors Look, I think it's an important message to get across and something I imagine we might be reading about in your next book to come. I know. Yeah, well, we'LL see. Artie, thank you so much for stopping by the Cube. It's great to talk to you and to hear some of the really interesting things that you've learned from nevertheless you persistent and excited to hear about book number two and that comes out. You got a combined studio. I'd love to thank you and thank you. I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the queue from BM Where? At the fourth Annual Women Transforming Technology event. Thanks for watching.

>> Q. At service now Knowledge fourteen is sponsored by service. Now here are your hosts, Dave Volonte and Jeff Frick. >> Hi, buddy. We're back. This is the Cube alive. Mosconi south in San Francisco. This is the service now. Knowledge fourteen Conference. I'm David Dante here with Jeff Frick. The Cube is our live mobile studio. We get out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise. Atticus Tyson is here. Is the CEO of Intuit eyes attending a parallel event? The service now has going on here, which is the CEO Decisions event. I think it's about one hundred CEOs. Atticus, welcome to the Cube. Thanks for coming on. Thanks. Happy to be here. Yes. So tell us a little bit about what's going on over there. The CEO decisions. So, as >> you said, it's about a hundred CEOs, uh, having some good discussions about the future of the role of the CEO. And this thing is a good speakers and getting together to be able to talk and share. >> What are some of the big themes that you guys were talking about? >> The big theme is the shift of really from being about systems of records to systems engaged, uh, and how we engage with lines of business to really enable growth. And it's less about cost savings and what we used to >> do. Yeah, so the whole notion. I mean, I love Frank's Lubinsky note this morning, sort of the message of turning it from a cost center into a producer of value. It sounds good, right? But when you get down to it and you're you're in the front lines and you're talking to a lot of CEO is trying to do more with less. A lot of times they don't have the budget. They don't the time. They don't have the management buy in on the board by and interestingly, we're just talking to Dave, right ways that we were asking him about. Wilmore CEO has come out of the business because that was one of frank, sort of no prescriptions. You really need to have a CEO who knows as much about the business is the business people, and that's the discussion that they should be having, not a technology discussion. It's rare you happen to be one that came out of the business, so talk a little bit about some of the roles that you've played it into it and how you ended up as a C e o. >> Sure so I've been with the company almost thirteen years. I've had four major jobs, one leading the protection program for the company product management for the small business division and then heading up engineering on now. And, uh, and the main reason I joined the group is I was I was always hearing the reason we couldn't do something because of, uh rather than complain about it, fix it. So I joined them on, uh, it's hard. Uh, exactly what you talked about is we have to still run the company with all of our existing systems of record while we're innovating while we're trying to tell a new story while we're trying to train our existing employees who are great at running these older systems but don't necessarily know the new paradigm. So it's shifting everything while still running the railroad, which is difficult. >> So from from a business perspective, when you're sort of running the business, how was into it using technology as a differentiator and it's a competitive advantage. Well, >> one of the things you know since our main product is technology, uh, really are our whole community. Our whole set of employees are technical people, uh, and So we're trying to embed technology everywhere. Uh, one of the things that's happening also is the line between what's traditionally I t. And what's product is blurring. So if you're a customer and you want to pay your bill or you wanna change your address, you have to do that inside the product. In a way, that's easy. And so we have a night group have to figure out how to work within that framework and have a great experience doing >> okay. So the line between the group and the product group is is much more blurred. You're saying it into it that it would be a you know, manufacturer. >> Absolutely. And in fact, one of the things I've been doing is really making the group more like a product group. Hiring product managers. I actually have a whole design staff that designs experiences. So if you were to walk into a room, you mean why not know whose From my tear? Who's with product? >> Yeah, okay. And so are the discussions that what do they like? The discussions that you're having with the business folks? I mean, you're talking about they're pl how to grow their profitability. How to increase. You know their margins, how to expand their channel. I mean, those the conversations >> that you're having absolutely on DH. How do we really provide a great experience for our agents who worked with customers, how to provide great end and customer experiences? How are we as the group enabling them to do more for customers on DH, create that one on one engagement that we want to do >> so? And it's what's been the reception kind of coming in from the outsider, if you will, from the other side of the wall within the focus. You know, I'm sure you have probably some expectations that were completely incorrect. Some assumptions that were necessarily there. So how they taken to you. And also there's a lot of talk about transforming kind of people from service providers in terms of pencil pushers and form filler routers. Teo, you know, strategic thinkers adding business value. Are they receptive to That was at a hard message to get across. How's it actually happening? >> Yeah, absolutely receptive. And I think if anybody's learned mauritz me more than them, uh, I've learned kind of the importance of the organization and how embedded it is with actually operating the company, and I have found people there who wanted for a long time to be able to have these kinds of conversations. But they've been relegated, if you will toe handling tickets, Uh, so once we can provide the framework and really aligned the work we're doing in it with driving growth with driving value, the conversations get easier, they get more meaningful, and the people doing the work really enjoy it much more. >> So is there a secret formula that you can share with either CEOs that haven't been on the business side or business practitioners that don't haven't really been on the other side of better ways to bridge that gap or two Collaborator Think it make it easier? >> You know, I think the way that worked for me was really trying to get a line around KP eyes or keep performance indicators. You sit down with a business leader and you know, what are the three or four metrics that I can really help in driving your business? You know? Is it Is it contacts? Is it average handled, which usually isn't, you know, Is it more of a transaction? That promoter score based on the satisfaction with dealing with the agent. What are those right indicators for you as a business leader? And then let's measure ourselves there and I'll be responsible is the technology guy. Figure out the right technology to make that happen, but we're going to focus everybody in i t and the business on the same measurements. >> And how have you been able to carve additional resource is to go after those types of objectives versus we always hear about, you know, the unbelievable amount of percentages just to keep the lights on and keep things running. >> Exactly. And that's really an internal conversation that we've gotta have because I'm definitely not getting more budget, er and so it is a brown. How do we get more efficient and automate with what we already have? I work with vendors to help us get better while we shift. Resource is over to the news because I'm definitely not anymore, but you're >> not getting more budget. So, Atticus, you've you've run engineering organizations, so you've got at least, you know, technical background from that standpoint, even a software engineer. But you mentioned off camera. You know the acronym guy right. So you hang out with Duke World. Forget it. Right? Pig and highs and scrap yard. Right. Okay, so but so And you've been in the business side of things. So when you come back into a role, you come to a roll of the technology head. How do you organized to tap that? Technical expertise? Nothing necessarily lack but the currency, you know, the acronym. Go. So how do you organize that? You lied on your CTO. Do you have? You know, uh, did you have to change the organization or inherit one that actually worked? And what if you could describe that a little bit? >> Great question. I think the biggest thing I changed about the organization when I came in is. And when I came, it was organized around systems. So there was a sable team, and there was no idea Artie And what? Instead, we did this. We created a sales care and marketing team. Andi said, you know, you're really a cow gamble for driving a great sales Karen marketing experience for end users and for agents. And I don't really care what technology you're using. Uh, so don't be allegiant to the technology because we all know Salesforce's great today, five years from now, they may not, uh, and I don't want to get so blind that I don't see the next thing coming on. So I have an expectation people in those groups that they're always looking for the next thing as well. >> So it was a classic stovepipe. Now what kind of friction that that cause? >> Well, the friction is really kind of my own. Learning is how interconnected all of the enterprise really is. It's nice and easy to say. There's a sales Karen marketing team and there's a finance dean. But those two systems really have to integrate and talk together and learning how to bridge that gap in a way that doesn't create a lot of bureaucracy. That's something we're still learning to do. >> And and what has been the impact of that change? Have you been able to do anything discernible at this point? Are actually how long you been a CEO? So >> seo since June. Okay, so relatively new. Okay, but I was heading engineering within. I worked for the C E O for about a year before that. So I many a night for about two >> years. Okay. And what is the impact bin of that organization? Changes have been discernible. I think it >> has. I think there's two main things. One is much greater transparency with our business partners of how we're spending the dollars on DH. I've invited them in to sit with us at the table and help us allocate those resources together. Esso and a greater appreciation on their side of the trade offs We have to make why we still run the business but try to do the innovation that's one and then the other is really creating great innovation coming out of the team because when they feel like their allegiance to the sales and care engineer who's out on the floor, one of the things I've done, uh, that into it. We're famous for something called the Follow Me home, uh, where we actually go to our customers homes and watch them use the product. We did the same thing when we did a follow on agent, uh, so we went to the call center and actually washed agents work and ask them what was difficult about using the product. We had engineers doing that, not product managers so they can actually see the problem first. >> And you drove that initiative? Absolutely. It wasn't it was that considered innovative. ITT's seems so basic, right? But everyone's so busy and exactly time to do something, creating the time to do it >> and even getting the cooperation from the managers of the agents to do it, because they just want to be on the floor taking calls. But actually having somebody looking over their shoulder asking what was worked about that what didn't work was a little bit of organizational pushed back. But once they understood the value they got onboard, >> whether any on aha moments it came out of that. Or was it more incremental? Several >> and mostly around. Just screen design and call Flo. Why did we have you to four clicks when you could do it in two clicks to really allow the agent to focus more on their interaction with the customer, not their interaction with the product. >> So I want to shift gears a little bit, so when you're into it right, you guys used to send out discs and CDs, and you had to change your model tow cloud based application, which is you know the kind of classic Do you kill your own business or you let somebody else kill it for you, right? Talk a little bit about how that knowledge helped you within trying to transform the department. Great question. I mean, >> because we've been running a digital or an online product for well over twelve years now, uh, both in TurboTax and in QuickBooks. And we've learned a lot in how to just run that kind of experience. And so now, as cloud based I T offerings are coming along, we already really understand kind of what they're doing on their side on one of the things we've been really pushing for. I think along with other people in the industry is more transparency and those cloud providers. Sometimes you think that they just want to run it as a utility. But as a technologist, I want to know more about how their services running. So I know how to rely on that's been a think attention in the >> industry. We gotta rap, but I want to just get your take. So you're new to service now, right? You bring it in. Uh, we're going live in about a month. Okay. We've been through the proof of concept. What are your expectations? Where you going? Toe pointed. >> So I think first off, just the agents who resolve tickets are going to have a much better experience than what we had before, which was a combination of some homegrown systems, Uh, in a couple of other vendors. So much better agent experience during the resolving on a much better employees experience, putting in tickets, uh, and also much better visibility into the workflow. >> Great. Atticus Tyson. Thanks very much. You're coming on the cube, you know. Good luck in your new role. Looks like you're having an impact on, uh, kind of a poster child for the service now. Vision of a of a CEO. So appreciate you coming on. Thanks. Something I keep right to Everybody will be right back with our next guests. Dave, along with Geoffrey, relied from Mosconi in San Francisco right back