>>LA from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering AWS reinvent 2019 brought to you by Amazon web services and along with its ecosystem partners. >>Hello everyone. Welcome back to the cubes. Day three coverage of ADAS reinvent in Las Vegas. It's the cubes coverage. Want to thank Intel for being the headline sponsor for the cube two sets. Without Intel, we wouldn't make it happen. We're here extracting the signal from the noise as usual. Wall-to-wall SiliconANGLE the cube coverage. I'm John Feria with student men and men doing a keynote analysis from Verner Vogel. Stu, you know Vernor's, they always, they always got the disc, the format jazzy kicks it off. You get the partner thing on day two and then they say Verner flask could nerd out on all the good stuff. Uh, containers. Coobernetti's all under the hood stuff. So let's jump in a keynote analysis. What's your take? What's Verner's posture this year? What's the vibe? What's the overall theme of the keynote? >>Well, well, first of all, John, to answer the question that everybody asks when Werner takes the stage, this year's t-shirt was posse. So Verner usually either has a Seattle band or it's usually a Dutch DJ, something like that. So he always delivers it. The geek crowd there. And really after seeing it of sitting through Werner's keynote, I think everybody walks out with AWS certification because architecturally we dig into all these environments. So right. You mentioned they started out with the master class on how Amazon built their hypervisor. Super important. Nitro underneath is the secret sauce. When they bought Annapurna labs, we knew that those chips would be super important going forward. But this is what is going to be the driver for outposts. It is the outpost is the building block for many of the other services announced this week. And absolutely the number one thing I'm hearing in the ecosystems around outpost but far gate and firecracker micro databases and managing containers. >>Um, they had some enterprises up on stage talking about transformation, picking up on the themes that Andy started with his three hour keynote just yesterday. But um, it's a lighter on the news. One of the bigger things out there is we will poke Amazon about how open and transparent they are. About what they're doing. And one of the things they announced was the Amazon builders library. So it's not just getting up on stage and saying, Hey, we've got really smart people and we architected these things and you need to use all of our tools, but Hey, this is how we do things. Reminded me a little bit of a, you know, just echoes of what I heard from get lab, who of course is fully open source, fully transparent, but you know, Amazon making progress. It's Adrian Cockcroft and that team has moved on open source, the container group. >>I had a great interview yesterday with Deepak saying, and Abby fuller, the container group actually has a roadmap up on containers. They're so sharing a lot of deep knowledge and good customers talk about how they're taking advantage, transforming their business. In serverless, I mean, John, coming out of Andy's keynote, I was like, there wasn't a lot of security and there wasn't a lot of serverless. And while serverless has been something that we know is transforming Amazon underneath the covers, we finally got to hear a little bit more about not just Lambda but yes, Lambda, but the rest of it as to how serverless is transforming underneath. >>You know ain't Jessie's got along three hour keynote, 30 announcements, so he has to cut save some minutes there. So for Verner we were expecting to go in a little bit more deeper dive on this transformational architecture. What did you learn about what they're proposing, what they're saying or continuing to say around how enterprises should be reborn in the cloud? Because that's the conversation here and again, we are, the memes that are developing are take the T out of cloud native. It's cloud naive. If you're not doing it right, you're going to be pretty naive. And then reborn in the cloud is the theme. So cloud native, born in the cloud, that's proven. Reborn in the cloud is kind of the theme we're hearing. Did he show anything? Did he talk about what that architecture is for transformation? Right. >>Did actually, it was funny. I'm in a watching the social stream. While things are going on. There was actually a cube alumni that I follow that we've interviewed at this show and he's like, if we've heard one of these journeys to you know, transformation, haven't we heard them all and I said, you know, while the high level message may be similar is I'm going to transfer math transform, I'm going to use data. When you looked at what they were doing, and this is a significant, you know, Vanguard, you know the financial institutions, Dave Volante commenting that you know the big banks, John, we know Goldman Sachs, we know JP Morgan, these banks that they have huge it budgets and very smart staffs there. They years ago would have said, Oh we don't need to use those services. We'll do what ourselves. Well Vanguard talking about how they're transforming rearchitecting my trip services. >>I love your term being reborn cloud native because that is the architecture. Are you cloud native or I used to call it you've kind of cloud native or kinda you know a little bit fo a cloud. Naive is a great term too. So been digging in and it is resonating is to look, transformation is art. This is not trying to move the organizational faster than it will naturally happen is painful. There's skillsets, there's those organizational pieces. There are politics inside the company that can slow you down in the enterprise is not known for speed. The enterprises that will continue to exist going forward better have taken this methodology. They need to be more agile and move. >>Well the thing about the cloud net naive thing that I like and first of all I agree with reborn in the cloud. We coined the term in the queue but um, that's kinda got this born again kind of vibe to it, which I think is what they're trying to say. But the cloud naive is, is some of the conversations we're hearing in the community and the customer base of these clouds, which is there are, and Jesse said it is Kino. There are now two types of developers and customers, the ones that want the low level building blocks and ones who want a more custom or solution oriented packages. So if you look at Microsoft Azure and Oracle of the clouds, they're trying to appeal to the folks that are classic it. Some are saying that that's a naive approach because it's a false sense of cloud, false sense of security. >>They got a little cloud. Is it really true? Cloud is, it's really true. Cloud native. So it's an interesting confluence between what true cloud is from a cloud native standpoint and yet all the big success stories are transformations not transitions. And so to me, I'm watching this it market, which is going to have trillions of dollars in, are they just transitioning? I old it with a new coat of paint or is it truly a skill, a truly an architectural transformation and does it impact the business model? That to me is the question. What's your reaction to that? >>Yeah, so John, I think actually the best example of that cloud native architecture is the thing we're actually all talking about this week, but is misunderstood. AWS outpost was announced last year. It is GA with the AWS native services this year. First, the VMware version is going to come out early in 2020 but here's why I think it is super exciting but misunderstood. When Microsoft did Azure stack, they said, we're going to give you an availability zone basically in your data center. It wasn't giving you, it was trying to extend the operational model, but it was a different stack. It was different hardware. They had to put these things together and really it's been a failure. The architectural design point of outpost is different. It is the same stack. It is an extension of your availability zone, so don't think of it of I've got the cloud in my data center. >>It's no, no, no. What I need for low latency and locality, it's here, but starting off there is no S3 in it because we were like, wait, what do you mean there's no S3 in it? I want to do all these services and everything. Oh yeah. Your S three bucket is in your local AC, so why would you say it's sharing? If you are creating data and doing data, of course I want it in my S three bucket. You know that, that that makes that no, they're going to add us three next year, but they are going to be very careful about what surfaces do and don't go on. This is not, Oh Amazon announces lots of things. Of course it's on outpost. It has the security, it has the operational model. It fits into the whole framework. It can be disconnected song, but it is very different. >>I actually think it's a little bit of a disservice. You can actually go see the rack. I took a selfie with it and put it out on Twitter and it's cool gear. We all love to, you know, see the rack and see the cables and things like that. But you know, my recommendation to Amazon would be just put a black curtain around it because pay no attention to what's here. Amazon manages it for you and yes, it's Amazon gear with the nitro chip underneath there. So customers should not have to think about it. It's just when they're doing that architecture, which from an application standpoint, it's a hybrid architecture. John, some services stay more local because of latency, but others it's that transformation. And it's moving the cloud, the edge, my data center things are much more mobile. Can you to change and move over? >>Well this spring you mentioned hybrid. I think to me the outpost announcement in terms of unpacking that is all about validation of hybrid. You know, VMware's got a smile on their face. Sanjay Poonen came in because you know Gelson you're kind of was pitching hybrid, you know, we were challenging him and then, but truly this means cloud operations has come. This is now very clear. There's no debate and this is what multi-cloud ultimately will look like. But hybrid cloud and public cloud is now the architecture of the of it. There's no debate because outpost is absolute verification that the cloud operating model with the cloud as a center of gravity for all the reasons scale, lower costs management, but moving the cloud operations on premises or the edge proves hybrid is here to stay. And that's where the money is. >>So John, there's a small nuance I'll say there because hybrid, we often think of public and private as equal. The Amazon positioning is it's outpost. It's an extension of what we're doing. The public cloud is the main piece, the edge and the outposts are just extensions where we're reaching out as opposed to if I look at, you know what VMware's doing, I've got my data center footprint. You look at the HCI solution out there. Outpost is not an HCI competitor and people looking at this misunderstand the fundamental architecture in there. Absolutely. Hybrid is real. Edge is important. Amazon is extending their reach, but all I'm saying is that nuance is still, Amazon has matured their thinking on hybrid or even multi-cloud. When you talk to Andy, he actually would talk about multi-cloud, but still at the center of gravity is the public cloud and the Amazon services. It's not saying that, Oh yeah, like you know, let's wrap arounds around all of your existing, >>well, the reason why I liked the cloud naive, take the T out of cloud native and cloud naive is because there is a lot of negativity around what cloud actually is about. I forget outpost cloud itself, and if you look at like Microsoft for instance, love Microsoft, I think they do an amazing work. They're catching up as fast as they can, but, and they play the car. Well we are large scale too, but the difference between Amazon and Microsoft Azure is very clear. Microsoft's had these data centers for MSN, I. E. browsers, global infrastructure around the world for themselves and literally overnight they have to serve other people. And if you look at Gardner's results, their downtime has been pretty much at an all time high. So what you're seeing is the inefficiencies and the district is a scale for Microsoft trying to copy Amazon because they now have to serve millions of customers anywhere. This is what Jessie was telling me in my one-on-one, which is there's no compression algorithm for experience. What he's basically saying is when you try to take shortcuts, there's diseconomies of scale. Amazon's got years of economies of scale, they're launching new services. So Jesse's bet is to make the capabilities. The problem is Microsoft Salesforce do is out there and Amos can't compete with, they're not present and they're going into their customers think we got you covered. And frankly that's working like real well. >>Yeah. So, so, so John, we had the cube at Microsoft ignite. I've done that show for the last few years. And my takeaway at Microsoft this year was they build bridges. If you are, you know, mostly legacy, you know, everything in my data center versus cloud native, I'm going to build your bridge. They have five different developer groups to work with you where you are and they'll go there. Amazon is a little bit more aggressive with cloud native transformation, you know, you need to change your mindset. So Microsoft's a little bit more moderate and it is safer for companies to just say, well, I trust Microsoft and I've worked with Microsoft and I've got an enterprise license agreement, so I'll slowly make change. But here's the challenge, Don. We know if you really want to change your business, you can't get there incrementally. Transformation's important for innovation. So the battle is amazing. You can't be wrong for betting on either Microsoft or Amazon these days. Architecturally, I think Amazon has clear the broadest and deepest out there. They keep proving some of their environments and it has, >>well the economies of scale versus diseconomies scale discussion is huge because ultimately if Microsoft stays on that path of just, you know, we got a two and they continue down that path, they could be on the wrong side of the history. And I'll tell you why I see that and why I'm evaluating Microsoft one, they have the data center. So can they reach tool fast enough? Can they, can they eliminate that technical debt because ultimately they're, they're making a bet. And the true bet is if they become just an it transition, they in my opinion, will, will lose in the long run. Microsoft's going all in on, Nope, we're not the old guard. We're the new guard. So there's an interesting line being formed too. And if Microsoft doesn't get cloud native and doesn't bring true scale, true reliability at the capabilities of Amazon, then they're just going to be just another it solution. And they could, that could fall right on there, right on their face on that. >>And John, when we first came to this show in 2013 it was very developer centric and could Amazon be successful in wooing the enterprise? You look around this show, the answer was a resounding yes. Amazon is there. They have not lost the developers. They're doing the enterprise. When you talk to Andy, you talked about the bottoms up and the top down leadership and working there and across the board as opposed to Google. Google has been trying and not making great progress moving to the enterprise and that has been challenging. >>Oh, I've got to tell you this too. Last night I was out and I got some really good information on jet eye and I was networking around and kind of going in Cognito mode and doing the normal and I found someone who was sharing some really critical information around Jedi. Here's what I learned around this is around Microsoft, Microsoft, one that Jed ideal without the capabilities to deliver on the contract. This was a direct quote from someone inside the DOD and inside the intelligence community who I got some clear information and I said to him, I go, how's that possible? He says, Microsoft one on the fact that they say they could do it. They have not yet proven any capabilities for Jedi. And he even said quote, they don't even have the data centers to support the deal. So here you have the dynamic we save, we can do it. Amazon is doing it. This is ultimately the true test of cloud naive versus cloud native. Ask the clouds, show me the proof, John, you could do it and I'll go with, >>you've done great reporting on the jet. I, it has been a bit of a train wreck to watch what's going on in the industry with that because we know, uh, Microsoft needs to get a certain certification. They've got less than a year. The clock is ticking to be able to support some of those environments. Amazon could support that today. So we knew when this started, this was Amazon's business and that there was the executive office going in and basically making sure that Amazon did not win it. So we said there's a lot of business out there. We know Amazon doing well, and the government deals Gelsinger was on record from VMware talking about lots of, >>well here's, here's, here's the thing. I also talked to someone inside the CIA community who will tell me that the spending in the CIA is flat. Okay. And the, the flatness of the, of the spending is flat, but the demand for mission support is going exponential. So the cloud fits that bill. On the Jedi side, what we're hearing is the DOD folks love this architecture. It was not jury rig for Amazon's jury rig for the workload, so that they're all worried that it's going to get scuttled and they don't want that project to fail. There's huge support and I think the Jedi supports the workload transformational thinking because it's completely different. And that's why everyone was running scared because the old guard was getting, getting crushed by it. But no one wants that deal to fail. They want it to go forward. So it's gonna be very interesting dynamics do if Microsoft can't deliver the goods, Amazon's back in the driver's seat >>deal. And John, I guess you know my final takeaway, we talked a bunch about outpost but that is a building block, 80 West local zones starting first in LA for the telco media group, AWS wavelength working with the five G providers. We had Verizon on the program here. Amazon is becoming the everywhere cloud and they really, as Dave said in your opening keynote there, shock and awe, Amazon delivers mere after a year >>maybe this logo should be everything everywhere cause they've got a lot of capabilities that you said the everything cloud, they've got everything in the store do great stuff. Great on the keynote from Verner Vogel's again, more technology. I'm super excited around the momentum around Coobernetti's you know we love that they think cloud native is going to be absolutely legit and continue to be on a tear in 2020 and beyond. I think the five G wavelength is going to change the network constructs because that's going to introduce new levels of kinds of policy. Managing data and compute at the edge will create new opportunities at the networking layer, which for us, you know, we love that. So I think the IOT edge is going to be a super, super valuable. We even had Blackberry on their, their car group talking about the software inside the car. I mean that's a moving mobile device of, of of industrial strength is industrial IOT. So industrial IOT, IOT, edge outpost, hybrid dude, we called this what year? Yeah, we call that 2013. >>And John, it's great to help our audience get a little bit more cloud native on their education and uh, you know, make sure that we're not as naive anymore. >>Still you're not naive. You're certainly cloud native, born in the clouds do, it's us born here. Our seventh year here at Amazon web services. Want to thank Intel for being our headline sponsor. Without Intel support, we would not have the two stages and bringing all the wall to wall coverage. Thanks for supporting our mission. Intel. We really appreciate it. Give them a shout out. We've got Andy Jassy coming on for exclusive at three o'clock day three stay with us for more coverage. Live in Vegas for reinvent 2019 be right back.

>> Announcer: Live from the Moscone Center it's theCUBE, covering AWS Summit San Francisco 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Hello everyone, welcome to theCUBE here in San Francisco at Moscone West, theCUBE's exclusive coverage of Amazon Web Services Summit 2018. It's the first of their kickoff of their little satellite events, really about developers and training and educating people on Amazon Web Services products and services. Again theCUBE covers re:Invent, that's their big show, This is more of a, less of a sales and marketing but more of a really get down and dirty with the developers and practitioners. I'm John Furrier, with my cohost this week Stu Miniman all day today, wall to wall coverage. Stu, the keynotes just kicked off, Andy Jassy is not here, notable. Werner Vogels does all the summits so he's always been the headline. Last year Andy Jassy kind of did the keynote, fireside chat, we had that up on our YouTube channel, SiliconANGLE theCUBE, but here the story is all about SageMaker and the continued dominance of Amazon Web Services, and then again as we were speculating at re:Invent, and we've been saying on theCUBE, the maturization of Amazon Web Services is clear. Everyone knows the numbers, they're breaking out the reporting, they clearly got competitive forces for the first time in AWS's history, they have some serious competition upping their game. Microsoft nipping at their heels, Google putting out some open source tech, Oracle trying to throw FUD into the fire and say, change the rules and kind of keep the rules on their terms, so the competitive pressure. But at the end of the day there's a whole new era of modern software development, modern business applications and we're seeing it with things like cloud expansion, on-premise consolidation, hybrid-cloud, multi-cloud, decentralized infrastructure, blockchain AI, these are the themes, this is what developers want, this is what businesses are doing, let's analyze and discuss the keynotes. What's your thoughts? >> Yeah, so John, I mean, first of all, we watched the rolling thunder that is AWS just rolling through the entire industry, and now rolling all over the globe. So the AWS Summit, I think they actually had an idea about Summit in Singapore like, last night, and we're going to be covering a few of them. I was last year at the AWS New York City Summit, and I tell you, that New York City show alone was one of the best shows I went to all year. The amount of people, the excitement, what really differentiates as you said, the big re:Invent versus the summit, first of all, the summit, they tend to be a local audience, it's free for basically everybody to come in. So numbers are great, you know, we're in San Francisco, they going to 10, 15 thousand people here probably. Google Cloud Next was here last year in February and it feels almost the same amount of people here for a regional Amazon show. So the numbers are wow, the announcements, every day Amazon's running an announcement, so Doctor Werner Vogels, Doctor Matt Wood, get up stage, go through some of the usual we're dominating every industry and every service and everything there, but when you piece apart there's like, ooh, there's real announcements that are coming, things that jumped out, we talked about machine learning, Matt Wood talked about SageMaker is really growing super fast, people that I talked to that have been using it are loving it. They came out with SageMaker local, which means that I can develop it on my laptop and do it with that cool, you take ML with that cool, what was it, that deep lens, that they've got. It's how do I get these environments? Amazon isn't just about infrastructure cloud anymore, They've gone to paths, they're pushing to edge, they're doing all of these things. They had a whole ton of announcements, when they were already past the time that the keynotes were going to be done, Oh, you thought we're done, well security, security, security and secrets manager, firewall manager, there's so many services. The theme I've been looking at the past couple years, how do we keep up with all of this, even internally? You talk to Amazon people, they don't know everything that everyone's doing, because it's all those two pizza teams and how they're growing. >> And they always have to get all their sound bites in because they don't have a lot of time to get all that packed into one powerful punch. Just on a quick side note for the folks that watching knows theCUBE, we've been covering Amazon really since the beginning, since the re:Invent started, you know we've been covering data center infrastructure and big data, Hadoop and now beyond. You're starting to see coverage around blockchain and cryptocurrency. So again, we are expanding our coverage of the AWS ecosystem and cloud to include most of the major regional shows of AWS Summit, continuing to go deep into the AWS re:Invent and the community, we are also initiating coverage heavily on Google, Google Cloud Next, we'll be at their show and soon to be at Microsoft show, that's still to be determined with Microsoft that they will let us in, we're working on that, we think that's going to be good, but we'll be nailing and doubling down on the cloud coverage. So Stu, with that as a backdrop, people know we've been deep with Amazon, I've been called an Amazon fanboy many times, but the numbers are clear. I'm a Google fanboy, by the way, too, I love Google stuff. Microsoft I got to learn more about, obviously they have bundling and Office so they're a legacy player, Oracle a legacy player, so you got two legacy players, you got Amazon and Google, I would put them in two different categories, but then Alibaba in China trying to dip in as you got those, the real kind of cloud native companies, Google and Amazon on one end, you get the legacy players with Microsoft and Oracle and IBM on the other. So you have this really highly competitive environment. We're seeing for the first, or second time, Andy Jassy did it at re:Invent, but Werner Vogels put up the competitive slide. He said "This is what we're doing." And he showed the number of services that Amazon offers, vis a vis the competition, and he didn't actually call out the vendors but we kind of know, I put on my Twitter feed, you can see his number one, the second one's Microsoft. Google they put in the Google colors, that's obviously Google, and red is Oracle. Amazon is clearly dominating on the number of services available across the cloud. So when we've been squinting through the numbers on who's leading who, you've really got look at two perspectives. The broad range of available services and the number of customers using those services versus point solutions that might be one instance of the cloud. This is a new architecture, it's not the old waterfall model it's not the old six months to provision into it, mentioned that. This is like a highly competitive environment. So Stu I've got to ask you, how do you squint through that and look at the competition that Amazon has, obviously the numbers aren't great. But how should customers look at the competition, how are you looking at it, how is our team evaluating the competition? >> Well first of all John, it is not a zero sum game and it is very nuanced and complicated. And for most customers it's not a solution, it's many solutions and it's something that Amazon doesn't love, is that you talk about things like multi-cloud and they would say "Well, we have the "best service everywhere and we're the cheapest everywhere "and everyone's all in on us," well, when you get down to it, You know, I hate I have to defend a little bit, you say Microsoft and Oracle, legacy. Microsoft has business productivity applications. They are the leader in the space when you talk about... >> Yeah they're the leader in legacy applications. >> But you know, you start with the Microsoft Office Suite, and say what you will, it's still dominant out there, it's there. Microsoft gave enterprises the green light to go to SaaS, and they really helped drive that. >> John: Whoah, whoah, that's a direction. >> Yeah. >> John: But they're a legacy vendor, what you just said is that they're legacy. >> But Azure is doing quite well... >> John: Oracle's going to the cloud, are they legacy? >> Oracle's got a phenomenal team, have been building some really interesting things in cloud, but obviously no doubt about it, Amazon's leading, but when you talk to users and you say, okay, there's lots of reasons they might be using Azure for various pieces. Everybody is using AWS, except for those people, John, and you used the example, the ones that compete against Amazon and obviously that's a concern. Because today Amazon is competing against more and more companies, so that's a little bit... >> I'm not, I'm not down on the legacy, what I'm trying to point out is that IBM was clear about this, they were up front about it at IBM Think we were just at, which is, they're saying the legacy has to evolve. Doesn't mean legacy's going to die, I mean Microsoft clearly is going to the cloud, their stock's at like 90 plus, it was at 26 a few years ago so, Satya Nadella taking over from Ballmer. Clearly that's the direction Microsoft has to go, and they're doing it. Now, they're a legacy company doing cloud. Oracle, legacy company, doing cloud. IBM, legacy company, doing cloud. So that's necessarily a bad thing, I'm just saying vis a vis the competition I would put Google and I would put Amazon in a new, modern, non-legacy kind of world. >> Yeah, well okay, and you find one of the lines I love that Werner Vogels was talking about is we talked about AWS customers are builders, and he said builders have a bias for action. And I love that, because if you talk to companies, and you know, we've talked a lot on theCUBE, digital transformation, much more than a buzzword, John, I've not talked to anybody, that they're like, "Oh, kind of hogwash, you know, I'm just going to "keep doing the same thing I've been doing "for the last 10 years and I'll keep being successful." We understand that change needs to happen and it's not easy. So if you've got data scientists, if you've got, you know, understanding data, if you're embracing developers, Amazon has affinity with these groups, and that's why they build and they listen to their customers and there's new services and another thing, Amazon gets up on stage and it's not so much "Oh, here's the vision of where we're going," it's here's the stuff that we GAed that we already had you in the beta. Here's the new things, and they might give you a couple things in preview, but they iterate and move so fast. >> Yeah, checking the boxes on the product side, but... >> But much more than checking the boxes, they listen to their customers. >> Well, well of course, that's what they say, but we know they're doing that, but the thing, I mean checking the boxes, they're on the cadence of the Amazon releases, which we've talked about that. But fundamentally, Stu, I think the two big things and this is what I want to get your reaction to is, what's going on with Amazon, the consistent thing is that they lay out the preferred architecture of the modern stack and it's not the same architecture as the old way. Two, the SageMaker and machine learning and where AI is going, if you look at what Matt Wood discussed, SageMaker, my prediction, will surpass Aurora as the number one shipping service for Amazon in the history of their product. That thing is on a torrent pace, and the way they lay it out architecturally, they're not head figment, they're saying this is what we're doing, they lay out the architecture, and they're putting in the machine learning. So, to me, I love that. Now, all the other stuff that they're doing it's just the cadence of Amazon. More announcements, more services, general availability, they're moving the ball down the field, as Jeff Frick would say, matriculating the ball down the field. So your reaction to the modern architecture, and the SageMaker, machine learning for all developers. >> Yeah, absolutely, Amazon is setting the bar for how we think about architecture today. They're leaders in serverless, an area I've been hot on the last year or so. You know, Werner was up on stage talking about Ai Roba who I got the chance to interview last year. So absolutely they are the bar that everything is measured on in this industry. And if they're not, have the leading product in everything, they are close second and they have so many services that there is just this flywheel of not only services and customers and the new flywheel we talked about on theCUBE two years ago with Andy Jassy is data. John, I want to throw back at you a question. Amazon released something called AWS Secrets Manager. Do we trust Amazon with our secrets? Is the government coming after Amazon now? There's some of these macroeconomic things happening, you're hearing everything in Silicon Valley, what are you hearing lately? >> Well what I'm hearing is one, people are really kind of not happy with Amazon's success because it, you know, market share at the expense of other old guard or legacy vendors, and so that's taking it's toll. Oracle to me is the biggest company that's impacted most by Amazon. It's clear that a war of words is happening between Ellison and Jassy. Two, there's a big policy battle going on in D.C. I think Bloomberg broke a story that Oracle is trying to incite Trump to tackle Amazon proper, but and then Amazon is affected, Amazon Web Services is affected, because they have all that Department of Defense and the CIA deal, so you're seeing Amazon, Amazon Web Services for the first time dealing with competitive pressures that's old school tactics, which is policy formulation, and as they say in the policy game in D.C., Stu, the battle is won before it's even fought. This is new territory for Amazon, they really got to get their act together, and if I had to tell Andy Jassy any advice would be like look it, you got to start thinking chess game at this point, and understand that the competition is not going to roll over. We've said this on theCUBE many times. Oracle's not going to roll over, IBM's not going to roll over. Now, other companies, like Cloud Air who's down thirty percent on earnings, they're going to have to do a deal with Amazon, just like VMware did. So I think you have these big cloud players sucking the oxygen out of the room, and there are impacts. The growing startups who are pre-public companies or are public companies have to either join the ecosystem or find another partner. The major cloud players are going to fight tooth and nail for market share as stakes on the table is the future internet, it's basically everything in cloud that's going to extend to democratization around decentralization, the future of money, sovereignty, government, digital nations, internet of things, these are, it's a high stakes chess game and Amazon is now on new territory, and I think that to me is the big walkaway is that no one is going to let them take this uncontested. >> Yeah, John, look at this crowd. The expo hall is filling up, customers are still excited. The buzz that I hear is that Amazon, they listen, they still move really fast when they need to make changes, I remember a year ago when we were here for the Google event I was talking, it's like, ah, Google's got such better pricing for the small business and everything like that. A week later Amazon changed all of their pricing, billing by the microsecond, I talked back to some of my sources and they're like, "Yeah Amazon listened and totally flipped the game." >> Yeah, well Jassy, he... >> There are sustainable advantages, so difficult in the fast pace of change but Amazon is doing better than what Oracle used to do in the past, they were kind of like, we'd get the lead and kind of want the competition intact, with them with the old sailing analogy, Amazon doesn't worry about the competition, they listen to their customers, they're moving forward. >> Well, I think that they do, they don't admit it but they have to watch, they've got to look in their rear view mirror a little bit, but Stu, to end out the analysis I would say the following, my observation is this: Andy Jassy and his team are very customer-centric. He sat on theCUBE many times, so as an organization they're very process oriented, they'll listen to customers. But if you look at what's happening in the world today, is that in the old way, the way that Intuit laid it out that took months to provision the software, the old technology business model or venture architecture for a business was make a sound technology decision, and all the chits will fall in the right places. This is completely opposite now, if you look at what's going on with cloud and blockchain and cryptocurrency and decentralized applications, it's the business model that matters, the technology switching costs are now fungible with Lambda you're starting to see these sets of services that can be spun up in parallel. So the scale and flexibility of the platform, and Werner Vogels pointed this out on the keynote, this is fundamental. The decisions that are fatal to a company is the business model and the business logic, this is where the action is. That means it's not just a developer game any more, it's the CTO, it's the data scientists, and Werner Vogels laid that out and I think that to me was my big walkaway from today's keynote is that Amazon recognizes that it's not just about developers, make developers more productive, but bring all those people together to do the right for the business model, the business logic and applications. >> Yeah, John, we're always looking for what are those things that are slow down the company and the roadblocks, one thing Amazon I think did a great job they're out in front of GDPR, that are super hot topic out there, and they just say categorically, "We're ready for GDPR on all of our services," so full steam ahead, don't stop your spending, keep growing. >> Couldn't be a better time to be a theCUBE host to analyze and talk about the competition. Let's see how Amazon handles the competition, do they just keep pedal to the metal, or do they address it and play those 3D chess games? TheCUBE here in San Francisco for live coverage of AWS Summit 2018 in San Francisco, more coverage after this short break. We'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Covering AWS re:Invent 2017. Presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hello and welcome to day three of exclusive CUBE coverage here at Las Vegas for live coverage of AWS re:Invent 2017. This is theCUBE's fifth year covering AWS re:Invent, and what a transformation it's been. Rocket ship growth. They got the tiger by the tail Full speed ahead. They're not looking in the rearview mirror. This is the mojo of Amazon Web Services. They're kicking ass and taking names, as we say here in theCUBE. But really, they're changing the game. A lot of game changing announcements, architectural rehab for engineering. Reimagining the future is really what they want, and they're trying to be everything to everyone. And, of course, that's always hard to do. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman on our kick off of day three. Breaking down Werner Vogel's keynote as well as kind of a review of what's been going on for the past few days. There is a lot of signal here. There's almost a noise around the signal meaning there is so much good content that it's really hard to get a hold of Stu. Great to kick it off day three. Rested. Didn't go out late last night. Went to bed by 10. I know you stayed out to three in the morning, but... >> Hoping my voice can hold out for another day in Vegas. John, good to see you, and I'm really excited. 3,951 announcements since the first re:Invent. We're going to go through every one of them. No, no, no. Werner Vogel. It was interesting because he's like, Oh, we've been told ahead of time, it's not going to be announcement heavy. Of course, there's some really awesome announcements. I hate we sound like fanboys sometimes, but you know, Alexa for business, the serverless marketplace. Some really good segments from Netflix, they were just talking about iRobot. Somebody who I had on theCUBE earlier this year. But Werner really kind of stepping back. Some people are like, what is this, a kinda computer science 101? But no, here's how you architect the future. Here's how Amazon's going to fit everything from how voice is going to be a major interface to a theme that I've really liked we've been covering for a number of years. The digital future is not robots taking over the world, but how do I take people and technology, put them together to really create that explosive future? 'Cause even the things like machine learning, the things that I've been talking to the people who are really in this environment is how are we going to train the people that are gonna put these things together? It's not just something that runs off by itself. >> And we had Sanjay Poonen who is the CEO, COO of VM Ware. Not CEO, that's Pat Gelsinger. But he kind of pointed out something that I wanna bring up here, which is Andy Jassy and the team at Amazon are highly competent, and they're executing. But, Stu, they're not just executing on the technical prowess, they're kicking ass on the technology. Certainly, I want to have a longer conversation with you about that. But they're really hitting some real high notes on societal change. So, if you look at what Amazon enables both at the startup level and the business transformation, even in the public sector with Teresa Carlson, who we'll have on later, they're enabling a new way to reimagine how to solve problems that never could be solved before. Two, they're kind of on the right vectors, and it's causing some competitive ripples. Just today in the news, you can see stories out there in the Wall Street Journal and other places where Apple is part of Stamford University to solve heart disease with the iWatch. Google's folding nest back into the hardware division as pressure because their playbook's not working because Amazon's kicking their ass on Alexa and you got Siri. So, Google's fumbling on that point. They're trying to figure it out. So, you're seeing the forces start to line up in this new era of competing on value, competing on software, competing on community and open source. Amazon has the right formula. If they keep this up, Microsoft and Google will not be able to catch them. And that is so obvious. So, until Amazon makes a misfire, which they have not yet, they experiment, but their solid track record, we're gonna call it as we see it. But calling balls and strikes right now on the cloud game, there is not even a close second place. >> Yes, so John, I've been searching for a word. We used to talk about a platform that you built or the marketplace or the ecosystem that we have around here. Amazon is enabling new things. The new AWS marketplace enabling anyone really to go in there, really could do for cloud and technology what Amazon.com helped do for retail and business. You know, I say, look, not every single one of the features that Amazon had is leaps and bounds ahead of what a Google or Microsoft has. I know you've done lots of reporting on the machine learning and everything happening, even Facebook and the like, going in there. But Amazon absolutely is in a class by itself and it's still, in our fifth year coming here, they impress and they continue to keep us-- >> Stu, let's dissect the competition. Let's lay it all out. To me, the top three are no doubt Amazon and then, way distance second place, Microsoft, and then, third on technology and then kind of, clustered like a bunch of Nascar clusters all trying to figure out what to do, is Oracle, IBM, and everybody else. >> Hold on, you didn't mention Google. You didn't mention Alibaba. >> I mean, sorry, Google would be third, Alibaba would be fourth. But their US presence, they're number four by sheer China volume, but Amazon's business in China's growing. They just cut a deal with China so we're gonna see that play out, we'll see. But Alibaba is a force to be reckoned with, as well as Tencent and Baidu and all those other platforms. But here's the deal, you can't be a pure play anymore. Look at Google, the search engine business, they're milking that cow dry, but the thing is that the business is shifting. So, I think Google, of all the competitors, probably has the best chance to accelerate because I think innovation has to be at the heart of that accelerated leadership position. Two, culture. The culture of solving not just tech problems, Stu. And this is where Amazon, no one's really unpacked this, is that if you look at Intel, for instance, they always have great tech, and they always do good things. Amazon is kind of doing the same thing. They're solving societal problems, but they're kicking ass on the business front. Google has that DNA. It's just not organized into the machinery. >> Yeah, I mean, John, we know Google has amazing technology, really good talent. We think Google spanner, oh my God, that's amazing. The thing we say is there's things that Google comes out with, and it's like, Wow, this is really cool. I really need to think about a while how can I do it. As opposed to most of the announcements you hear. In the sessions, people are like, Oh my God, I can't believe Amazon did this. I can immediately take this. I can change the way I'm doing something. I can increase my Codility. I can make my, how I just do my entire business different, better. >> Yeah, and so, Stu, I bring up the Alibaba comment. I wanna bring that back in because one of the things that Amazon's doing that Alibaba is kinda copying, I won't say copying, but emulating, is this notion of craftsmanship. If you look at the past 10 years the programmer culture, the Y Combinator, the Agile, lean, start-up kind of mindset, you look at a loss in craft in software development. Software development used to be a craft. You build software. We had to keep alumni benched from Apple, I talked about, you build a shrink-wrapped product, you ship it, you QA it, you ship it, but you don't know it's going to run. But in the Agile, you're shipping, you're shipping, and shipping, it kind of takes the craft and the artisan out of it. Yeah, US could be cool. But I think now you're going to start to see a swing-back, and whoever, whichever cloud can bring that artisan kind of craft, and blend the open source kind of community model, to me, will be the winning formula. Because that will change the game on these new use cases, the new user expectations, the new user experiences. >> And John, that's exactly what Werner was talking about in his keynote, is this is how we're architecting into the future, you know, everybody needs to be thinking about security. One of the critiques I saw is like, oh, well, you need to think about, you know, everything up and down the stack. It's like, you know, everybody needs to be the unicorn full-stack developer, you know, understand security, be on top of serverless, do all this, well, look, that's asking a lot as to, you know, not everybody's going to be able to do everything. Amazon might be everything is everything, but, you know, we need to be able to understand, you know, how do we take the vast majority of enterprises out there and move them along? I love, Keith Townsend and I did an interview with Chris Wolf from VMware, here at the show, and Keith said, you know, VMware used to move, you know, the speed of the CIO. Amazon's moving way faster than the CIO, you know, how do we help the enterprises move faster, and it's tough. I've talked, every customer I talk to is -- >> Well, we heard, we heard, we heard Intel saying they're moving faster than Intel. So, I mean, Intel has to get in these reference architectures, so, with FPGNAs and these new technologies, they have to accelerate and keep pace. But I think the Werner Vogels keynote here is kind of historic, and you brought this up before we came on, was that he was not going to do a lot of announcements. Although he did launch Alexa for business, and the Lambda Service is all in on that area, he kind of did a throwback to five years ago, or six years ago when he did his first keynote here, when he talked about the new architecture and reimagining it. But he took a modern version of what he was talking about then, and I think that highlights the Amazon greatness, but also their challenge. The one thing I'd be critical of Amazon is, well, two things, one is, I mentioned yesterday, Andy Jassy shouldn't be putting Gardener slides in a new guard presentation, because they're old guard. But that's one thing. What they're doing with the sales motion, it's hard. They have to convince customers and show them the new way. So what Werner painted the picture of is this is how we're thinking. This is how you should be thinking with customers. You have to reimagine what was traditional architecture, and think about it in a completely different way, which will change ultimately software methodologies, the life cycle of Agile, and hopefully bring in some, you know, value-oriented craftsmanship and artisan. >> Yeah, John, you know, this reminds me of many of the waves that we've seen throughout our careers. The customers, when they get in this ecosystem and they really start using it, they get religion. And, you know, number one advice I hear from a lot of the companies I talk to say, talking to your peers, what would you say? Say, get on it faster, and really just dive in. It's like, yeah, yeah, you start with one application. But get off the old stuff as fast as you can. Get on this, because there's, when you have access to all of these services, it just transforms your business. You can get, you know, these changes in these services, into more pieces of the organization, you know, John, we haven't brought up, you know, does IT matter? What's the role of IT in this versus the business lines and the developers? IT radically changing. Amazon looking to change that model. >> They are. I mean, there's no doubt. This show is kind of the final exclamation point on the fact that not only was it a collision course, it has absolutely happened. IT and Amazon have come together in a massive collision, and there's going to be carnage, too. There's going to be people, Lying on the side of the road. >> So, question for you. I've heard there's some people that like, this is the industry's biggest infrastructure show. And I'm an infrastructure guy by background, but I take, I don't think, this is not an infrastructure show. This is, you know, really about business. You know, absolutely, there's technology. Somebody I love, they said, you know, CES, this is now EES. This is the enterprise version of what's happening in technology. >> Well, I mean, we're going to have Teresa Carlson on. It's, you know, it's all digital, right, I mean, it's a digital culture, because their public sector business is booming. It's not just the enterprise. They nailed the start-up. They nailed the ElastiCLOUD, check. Tom Siebel pointed it out yesterday. And what they're nailing now with IT is they're becoming the lever, the catalyst for IT transformation at price points and functionality never seen before, and it's mind-boggling. Google's gotta re-organize, because they can't compete with Alexa. Alright, so things of that nature. So then you have the public sector, your government, and then global, regional, China, Europe, huge issues. So they're winning. And to me, this is a huge new thing. And why rant on the Gardener slide that Jessy puts up is, Amazon is the new guard, and they're putting up old guard metrics. So Stu, this is not an infrastructure as a service magic quadrant, so, the question we share, is what are the new guard metrics? My opinion, no one's developed it yet. So how would you define a modern metric for who's winning and who's losing? Because if you say number of customers, Oracle has a lot of customers, IBM's got a lot of customers. >> So John, Amazon's leading the vanguard in helping customers through digital transformation. I don't know how to measure that yet, but absolutely they're the ones that are doing this. It's not a product-centric. It's about the mindset and how we build things. I've really loved this week talking about, you know, how real is serverless? And like, well, really, Lambda's getting embedded everywhere. It's not about, you know, a product, and oh, hey, you're only going to pay for it by the microsecond, and it's 90% cheaper, no, no, no. It's about the triggers and the APIs and just integrating into the way I can build things faster, you know, yes, I can really get benefit out of microservices. That serverless application repository that Werner talked about, I mean, it's, we got really excited when we got for containers, like the Docker Hub, we had in virtualization, we had the same way, we could get kind of standard images out there. Serverless application repository's going to do the same thing for serverless. You know, is there a lock-in from AWS Lambda, how much is there going to be standards that come in? The CNCF next week is going to be digging into those. >> Is there a cost reduction? Or is it a cost increase? These are questions. >> Yeah. >> Alright, so final question for you. I know we've gotta move on to our full day here, but Stu, you, you know, you study it, you do the hallway conversations, you're at all the influencer events, how do you connect the dots between Andy Jassy's keynote and Werner's, where is the dots connecting? What is jumping out at you? Obviously Lambda, but what are the highlights, from your perspective, that you see just jumping out that Amazon's connecting and trying to present? >> Yeah, so, we always used to say it was like, you know, okay, is day one developer and day two enterprise? We're starting to see those lines blur. As the enterprise, we are still early in kind of the massive adoption there, but that's where it's coming together. There's, you know, lots of excitement, but, you know, as we talked about the continuum, now we had bare metal, we have instances, we have containers, we have serverless. And the enterprise is starting throughout that. I know there's a Sumo Logic report you've been quoting, and we've been-- >> And it came on yesterday. >> Absolutely. So good data there. New Relic had some good reports digging into this. So the wave, change is happening faster than ever. And, you know, Amazon is the lead horse driving this change throughout the industry. >> And don't forget Intel. Intel's just minding their business just watching all these compute requests come in. I mean, as more compute comes out, Intel just is a rising tide, and you know, they're a big boat in the harbor there. >> Absolutely. >> Alright, I'm John Furrier and Stu Miniman breaking down day three of theCUBE, day three here we've actually started on Sunday night at midnight. A lot of great action, a lot of great analysis, of course, check out our new Twitch channel, so, twitch.tv/siliconangle, twitch.tv/thecube, two new channels, or one rebooted channel, one new channel. And of course thecube.net. We're on Ustream, we're on YouTube. But check out our Twitch and join our community if you're a gamer. Back with more live coverage here, live in Las Vegas, for AWS re:Invent after the short break.

(upbeat music) >> Hey, everyone, welcome back to Las Vegas, "theCube" is on our fourth day of covering AWS re:Invent, live from the Venetian Expo Center. This week has been amazing. We've created a ton of content, as you know, 'cause you've been watching. But, there's been north of 55,000 people here, hundreds of thousands online. We've had amazing conversations across the AWS ecosystem. Lisa Martin, Paul Gillan. Paul, what's your, kind of, take on day four of the conference? It's still highly packed. >> Oh, there's lots of people here. (laughs) >> Yep. Unusual for the final day of a conference. I think Werner Vogels, if I'm pronouncing it right kicked things off today when he talked about asymmetry and how the world is, you know, asymmetric. We build symmetric software, because it's convenient to do so, but asymmetric software actually scales and evolves much better. And I think that that was a conversation starter for a lot of what people are talking about here today, which is how the cloud changes the way we think about building software. >> Absolutely does. >> Our next guest, Holger Mueller, that's one of his key areas of focus. And Holger, welcome, thanks for joining us on the "theCube". >> Thanks for having me. >> What did you take away from the keynote this morning? >> Well, how do you feel on the final day of the marathon, right? We're like 23, 24 miles. Hit the ball yesterday, right? >> We are going strong Holger. And, of course, >> Yeah. >> you guys, we can either talk about business transformation with cloud or the World Cup. >> Or we can do both. >> The World Cup, hands down. World Cup. (Lisa laughs) Germany's out, I'm unbiased now. They just got eliminated. >> Spain is out now. >> What will the U.S. do against Netherlands tomorrow? >> They're going to win. What's your forecast? U.S. will win? >> They're going to win 2 to 1. >> What do you say, 2:1? >> I'm optimistic, but realistic. >> 3? >> I think Netherlands. >> Netherlands will win? >> 2 to nothing. >> Okay, I'll vote for the U.S.. >> Okay, okay >> 3:1 for the U.S.. >> Be optimistic. >> Root for the U.S.. >> Okay, I like that. >> Hope for the best wherever you work. >> Tomorrow you'll see how much soccer experts we are. >> If your prediction was right. (laughs) >> (laughs) Ja, ja. Or yours was right, right, so. Cool, no, but the event, I think the event is great to have 50,000 people. Biggest event of the year again, right? Not yet the 70,000 we had in 2019. But it's great to have the energy. I've never seen the show floor going all the way down like this, right? >> I haven't either. >> I've never seen that. I think it's a record. Often vendors get the space here and they have the keynote area, and the entertainment area, >> Yeah. >> and the food area, and then there's an exposition, right? This is packed. >> It's packed. >> Maybe it'll pay off. >> You don't see the big empty booths that you often see. >> Oh no. >> Exactly, exactly. You know, the white spaces and so on. >> No. >> Right. >> Which is a good thing. >> There's lots of energy, which is great. And today's, of course, the developer day, like you said before, right now Vogels' a rockstar in the developer community, right. Revered visionary on what has been built, right? And he's becoming a little professorial is my feeling, right. He had these moments before too, when it was justifying how AWS moved off the Oracle database about the importance of data warehouses and structures and why DynamoDB is better and so on. But, he had a large part of this too, and this coming right across the keynotes, right? Adam Selipsky talking about Antarctica, right? Scott against almonds and what went wrong. He didn't tell us, by the way, which often the tech winners forget. Scott banked on technology. He had motorized sleds, which failed after three miles. So, that's not the story to tell the technology. Let everything down. Everybody went back to ponies and horses and dogs. >> Maybe goes back to these asynchronous behavior. >> Yeah. >> The way of nature. >> And, yesterday, Swami talking about the bridges, right? The root bridges, right? >> Right. >> So, how could Werner pick up with his video at the beginning. >> Yeah. >> And then talk about space and other things? So I think it's important to educate about event-based architecture, right? And we see this massive transformation. Modern software has to be event based, right? Because, that's how things work and we didn't think like this before. I see this massive transformation in my other research area in other platforms about the HR space, where payrolls are being rebuilt completely. And payroll used to be one of the three peaks of ERP, right? You would size your ERP machine before the cloud to financial close, to run the payroll, and to do an MRP manufacturing run if you're manufacturing. God forbid you run those three at the same time. Your machine wouldn't be able to do that, right? So it was like start the engine, start the boosters, we are running payroll. And now the modern payroll designs like you see from ADP or from Ceridian, they're taking every payroll relevant event. You check in time wise, right? You go overtime, you take a day of vacation and right away they trigger and run the payroll, so it's up to date for you, up to date for you, which, in this economy, is super important, because we have more gig workers, we have more contractors, we have employees who are leaving suddenly, right? The great resignation, which is happening. So, from that perspective, it's the modern way of building software. So it's great to see Werner showing that. The dirty little secrets though is that is more efficient software for the cloud platform vendor too. Takes less resources, gets less committed things, so it's a much more scalable architecture. You can move the events, you can work asynchronously much better. And the biggest showcase, right? What's the biggest transactional showcase for an eventually consistent asynchronous transactional application? I know it's a mouthful, but we at Amazon, AWS, Amazon, right? You buy something on Amazon they tell you it's going to come tomorrow. >> Yep. >> They don't know it's going to come tomorrow by that time, because it's not transactionally consistent, right? We're just making every ERP vendor, who lives in transactional work, having nightmares of course, (Lisa laughs) but for them it's like, yes we have the delivery to promise, a promise to do that, right? But they come back to you and say, "Sorry, we couldn't make it, delivery didn't work and so on. It's going to be a new date. We are out of the product.", right? So these kind of event base asynchronous things are more and more what's going to scale around the world. It's going to be efficient for everybody, it's going to be better customer experience, better employee experience, ultimately better user experience, it's going to be better for the enterprise to build, but we have to learn to build it. So big announcement was to build our environment to build better eventful applications from today. >> Talk about... This is the first re:Invent... Well, actually, I'm sorry, it's the second re:Invent under Adam Selipsky. >> Right. Adam Selipsky, yep. >> But his first year. >> Right >> We're hearing a lot of momentum. What's your takeaway with what he delivered with the direction Amazon is going, their vision? >> Ja, I think compared to the Jassy times, right, we didn't see the hockey stick slide, right? With a number of innovations and releases. That was done in 2019 too, right? So I think it's a more pedestrian pace, which, ultimately, is good for everybody, because it means that when software vendors go slower, they do less width, but more depth. >> Yeah. >> And depth is what customers need. So Amazon's building more on the depth side, which is good news. I also think, and that's not official, right, but Adam Selipsky came from Tableau, right? >> Yeah. So he is a BI analytics guy. So it's no surprise we have three data lake offerings, right? Security data lake, we have a healthcare data lake and we have a supply chain data lake, right? Where all, again, the epigonos mentioned them I was like, "Oh, my god, Amazon's coming to supply chain.", but it's actually data lakes, which is an interesting part. But, I think it's not a surprise that someone who comes heavily out of the analytics BI world, it's off ringside, if I was pitching internally to him maybe I'd do something which he's is familiar with and I think that's what we see in the major announcement of his keynote on Tuesday. >> I mean, speaking of analytics, one of the big announcements early on was Amazon is trying to bridge the gap between Aurora. >> Yep. >> And Redshift. >> Right. >> And setting up for continuous pipelines, continuous integration. >> Right. >> Seems to be a trend that is common to all database players. I mean, Oracle is doing the same thing. SAP is doing the same thing. MariaDB. Do you see the distinction between transactional and analytical databases going away? >> It's coming together, right? Certainly coming together, from that perspective, but there's a fundamental different starting point, right? And with the big idea part, right? The universal database, which does everything for you in one system, whereas the suite of specialized databases, right? Oracle is in the classic Oracle database in the universal database camp. On the other side you have Amazon, which built a database. This is one of the first few Amazon re:Invents. It's my 10th where there was no new database announced. Right? >> No. >> So it was always add another one specially- >> I think they have enough. >> It's a great approach. They have enough, right? So it's a great approach to build something quick, which Amazon is all about. It's not so great when customers want to leverage things. And, ultimately, which I think with Selipsky, AWS is waking up to the enterprise saying, "I have all this different database and what is in them matters to me." >> Yeah. >> "So how can I get this better?" So no surprise between the two most popular database, Aurora and RDS. They're bring together the data with some out of the box parts. I think it's kind of, like, silly when Swami's saying, "Hey, no ETL.". (chuckles) Right? >> Yeah. >> There shouldn't be an ETL from the same vendor, right? There should be data pipes from that perspective anyway. So it looks like, on the overall value proposition database side, AWS is moving closer to the universal database on the Oracle side, right? Because, if you lift, of course, the universal database, under the hood, you see, well, there's different database there, different part there, you do something there, you have to configure stuff, which is also the case but it's one part of it, right, so. >> With that shift, talk about the value that's going to be in it for customers regardless of industry. >> Well, the value for customers is great, because when software vendors, or platform vendors, go in depth, you get more functionality, you get more maturity you get easier ways of setting up the whole things. You get ways of maintaining things. And you, ultimately, get lower TCO to build them, which is super important for enterprise. Because, here, this is the developer cloud, right? Developers love AWS. Developers are scarce, expensive. Might not be want to work for you, right? So developer velocity getting more done with same amount of developers, getting less done, less developers getting more done, is super crucial, super important. So this is all good news for enterprise banking on AWS and then providing them more efficiency, more automation, out of the box. >> Some of your customer conversations this week, talk to us about some of the feedback. What's the common denominator amongst customers right now? >> Customers are excited. First of all, like, first event, again in person, large, right? >> Yeah. >> People can travel, people meet each other, meet in person. They have a good handle around the complexity, which used to be a huge challenge in the past, because people say, "Do I do this?" I know so many CXOs saying, "Yeah, I want to build, say, something in IoT with AWS. The first reference built it like this, the next reference built it completely different. The third one built it completely different again. So now I'm doubting if my team has the skills to build things successfully, because will they be smart enough, like your teams, because there's no repetitiveness and that repetitiveness is going to be very important for AWS to come up with some higher packaging and version numbers.", right? But customers like that message. They like that things are working better together. They're not missing the big announcement, right? One of the traditional things of AWS would be, and they made it even proud, as a system, Jassy was saying, "If we look at the IT spend and we see something which is, like, high margin for us and not served well and we announced something there, right?" So Quick Start, Workspaces, where all liaisons where AWS went after traditional IT spend and had an offering. We haven't had this in 2019, we don't have them in 2020. Last year and didn't have it now. So something is changing on the AWS side. It's a little bit too early to figure out what, but they're not chewing off as many big things as they used in the past. >> Right. >> Yep. >> Did you get the sense that... Keith Townsend, from "The CTO Advisor", was on earlier. >> Yep. >> And he said he's been to many re:Invents, as you have, and he said that he got the sense that this is Amazon's chance to do a victory lap, as he called it. That this is a way for Amazon to reinforce the leadership cloud. >> Ja. >> And really, kind of, establish that nobody can come close to them, nobody can compete with them. >> You don't think that- >> I don't think that's at all... I mean, love Keith, he's a great guy, but I don't think that's the mindset at all, right? So, I mean, Jassy was always saying, "It's still the morning of the day in the cloud.", right? They're far away from being done. They're obsessed over being right. They do more work with the analysts. We think we got something right. And I like the passion, from that perspective. So I think Amazon's far from being complacent and the area, which is the biggest bit, right, the biggest. The only thing where Amazon truly has floundered, always floundered, is the AI space, right? So, 2018, Werner Vogels was doing more technical stuff that "Oh, this is all about linear regression.", right? And Amazon didn't start to put algorithms on silicon, right? And they have a three four trail and they didn't announce anything new here, behind Google who's been doing this for much, much longer than TPU platform, so. >> But they have now. >> They're keen aware. >> Yep. >> They now have three, or they own two of their own hardware platforms for AI. >> Right. >> They support the Intel platform. They seem to be catching up in that area. >> It's very hard to catch up on hardware, right? Because, there's release cycles, right? And just the volume that, just talking about the largest models that we have right now, to do with the language models, and Google is just doing a side note of saying, "Oh, we supported 50 less or 30 less, not little spoken languages, which I've never even heard of, because they're under banked and under supported and here's the language model, right? And I think it's all about little bit the organizational DNA of a company. I'm a strong believer in that. And, you have to remember AWS comes from the retail side, right? >> Yeah. >> Their roll out of data centers follows their retail strategy. Open secret, right? But, the same thing as the scale of the AI is very very different than if you take a look over at Google where it makes sense of the internet, right? The scale right away >> Right. >> is a solution, which is a good solution for some of the DNA of AWS. Also, Microsoft Azure is good. There has no chance to even get off the ship of that at Google, right? And these leaders with Google and it's not getting smaller, right? We didn't hear anything. I mean so much focused on data. Why do they focus so much on data? Because, data is the first step for AI. If AWS was doing a victory lap, data would've been done. They would own data, right? They would have a competitor to BigQuery Omni from the Google side to get data from the different clouds. There's crickets on that topic, right? So I think they know that they're catching up on the AI side, but it's really, really hard. It's not like in software where you can't acquire someone they could acquire in video. >> Not at Core Donovan. >> Might play a game, but that's not a good idea, right? So you can't, there's no shortcuts on the hardware side. As much as I'm a software guy and love software and don't like hardware, it's always a pain, right? There's no shortcuts there and there's nothing, which I think, has a new Artanium instance, of course, certainly, but they're not catching up. The distance is the same, yep. >> One of the things is funny, one of our guests, I think it was Tuesday, it was, it was right after Adam's keynote. >> Sure. >> Said that Adam Selipsky stood up on stage and talked about data for 52 minutes. >> Yeah. Right. >> It was timed, 52 minutes. >> Right. >> Huge emphasis on that. One of the things that Adam said to John Furrier when they were able to sit down >> Yeah >> a week or so ago at an event preview, was that CIOs and CEOs are not coming to Adam to talk about technology. They want to talk about transformation. They want to talk about business transformation. >> Sure, yes, yes. >> Talk to me in our last couple of minutes about what CEOs and CIOs are coming to you saying, "Holger, help us figure this out. We have to transform the business." >> Right. So we advise, I'm going quote our friends at Gartner, once the type A company. So we'll use technology aggressively, right? So take everything in the audience with a grain of salt, followers are the laggards, and so on. So for them, it's really the cusp of doing AI, right? Getting that data together. It has to be in the cloud. We live in the air of infinite computing. The cloud makes computing infinite, both from a storage, from a compute perspective, from an AI perspective, and then define new business models and create new best practices on top of that. Because, in the past, everything was fine out on premise, right? We talked about the (indistinct) size. Now in the cloud, it's just the business model to say, "Do I want to have a little more AI? Do I want a to run a little more? Will it give me the insight in the business?". So, that's the transformation that is happening, really. So, bringing your data together, this live conversation data, but not for bringing the data together. There's often the big win for the business for the first time to see the data. AWS is banking on that. The supply chain product, as an example. So many disparate systems, bring them them together. Big win for the business. But, the win for the business, ultimately, is when you change the paradigm from the user showing up to do something, to software doing stuff for us, right? >> Right. >> We have too much in this operator paradigm. If the user doesn't show up, doesn't find the click, doesn't find where to go, nothing happens. It can't be done in the 21st century, right? Software has to look over your shoulder. >> Good point. >> Understand one for you, autonomous self-driving systems. That's what CXOs, who're future looking, will be talked to come to AWS and all the other cloud vendors. >> Got it, last question for you. We're making a sizzle reel on Instagram. >> Yeah. >> If you had, like, a phrase, like, or a 30 second pitch that would describe re:Invent 2022 in the direction the company's going. What would that elevator pitch say? >> 30 second pitch? >> Yeah. >> All right, just timing. AWS is doing well. It's providing more depth, less breadth. Making things work together. It's catching up in some areas, has some interesting offerings, like the healthcare offering, the security data lake offering, which might change some things in the industry. It's staying the course and it's going strong. >> Ah, beautifully said, Holger. Thank you so much for joining Paul and me. >> Might have been too short. I don't know. (laughs) >> About 10 seconds left over. >> It was perfect, absolutely perfect. >> Thanks for having me. >> Perfect sizzle reel. >> Appreciate it. >> We appreciate your insights, what you're seeing this week, and the direction the company is going. We can't wait to see what happens in the next year. And, yeah. >> Thanks for having me. >> And of course, we've been on so many times. We know we're going to have you back. (laughs) >> Looking forward to it, thank you. >> All right, for Holger Mueller and Paul Gillan, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching "theCube", the leader in live enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Good morning everybody. Welcome back to Las Vegas. This is day four of theCUBE's wall-to-wall coverage of our Super Bowl, aka AWS re:Invent 2022. I'm here with my co-host, Paul Gillin. My name is Dave Vellante. Sanjay Poonen is in the house, CEO and president of Cohesity. He's sitting in as our guest market watcher, market analyst, you know, deep expertise, new to the job at Cohesity. He was kind enough to sit in, and help us break down what's happening at re:Invent. But Paul, first thing, this morning we heard from Werner Vogels. He was basically given a masterclass on system design. It reminded me of mainframes years ago. When we used to, you know, bury through those IBM blue books and red books. You remember those Sanjay? That's how we- learned back then. >> Oh God, I remember those, Yeah. >> But it made me think, wow, now you know IBM's more of a systems design, nobody talks about IBM anymore. Everybody talks about Amazon. So you wonder, 20 years from now, you know what it's going to be. But >> Well- >> Werner's amazing. >> He pulled out a 24 year old document. >> Yup. >> That he had written early in Amazon's evolution about synchronous design or about essentially distributed architectures that turned out to be prophetic. >> His big thing was nature is asynchronous. So systems are asynchronous. Synchronous is an illusion. It's an abstraction. It's kind of interesting. But, you know- >> Yeah, I mean I've had synonyms for things. Timeless architecture. Werner's an absolute legend. I mean, when you think about folks who've had, you know, impact on technology, you think of people like Jony Ive in design. >> Dave: Yeah. >> You got to think about people like Werner in architecture and just the fact that Andy and the team have been able to keep him engaged that long... I pay attention to his keynote. Peter DeSantis has obviously been very, very influential. And then of course, you know, Adam did a good job, you know, watching from, you know, having watched since I was at the first AWS re:Invent conference, at time was President SAP and there was only a thousand people at this event, okay? Andy had me on stage. I think I was one of the first guest of any tech company in 2011. And to see now this become like, it's a mecca. It's a mother of all IT events, and watch sort of even the transition from Andy to Adam is very special. I got to catch some of Ruba's keynote. So while there's some new people in the mix here, this has become a force of nature. And the last time I was here was 2019, before Covid, watched the last two ones online. But it feels like, I don't know 'about what you guys think, it feels like it's back to 2019 levels. >> I was here in 2019. I feel like this was bigger than 2019 but some people have said that it's about the same. >> I think it was 60,000 versus 50,000. >> Yes. So close. >> It was a little bigger in 2019. But it feels like it's more active. >> And then last year, Sanjay, you weren't here but it was 25,000, which was amazing 'cause it was right in that little space between Omicron, before Omicron hit. But you know, let me ask you a question and this is really more of a question about Amazon's maturity and I know you've been following them since early days. But the way I get the question, number one question I get from people is how is Amazon AWS going to be different under Adam than it was under Andy? What do you think? >> I mean, Adam's not new because he was here before. In some senses he knows the Amazon culture from prior, when he was running sales and marketing prior. But then he took the time off and came back. I mean, this will always be, I think, somewhat Andy's baby, right? Because he was the... I, you know, sent him a text, "You should be really proud of what you accomplished", but you know, I think he also, I asked him when I saw him a few weeks ago "Are you going to come to re:Invent?" And he says, "No, I want to leave this to be Adam's show." And Adam's going to have a slightly different view. His keynotes are probably half the time. It's a little bit more vision. There was a lot more customer stories at the beginning of it. Taking you back to the inspirational pieces of it. I think you're going to see them probably pulling up the stack and not just focused in infrastructure. Many of their platform services are evolved. Many of their, even application services. I'm surprised when I talk to customers. Like Amazon Connect, their sort of call center type technologies, an app layer. It's getting a lot. I mean, I've talked to a couple of Fortune 500 companies that are moving off Ayer to Connect. I mean, it's happening and I did not know that. So it's, you know, I think as they move up the stack, the platform's gotten more... The data centric stack has gotten, and you know, in the area we're working with Cohesity, security, data protection, they're an investor in our company. So this is an important, you know, both... I think tech player and a partner for many companies like us. >> I wonder the, you know, the marketplace... there's been a big push on the marketplace by all the cloud companies last couple of years. Do you see that disrupting the way softwares, enterprise software is sold? >> Oh, for sure. I mean, you have to be a ostrich with your head in the sand to not see this wave happening. I mean, what's it? $150 billion worth of revenue. Even though the growth rates dipped a little bit the last quarter or so, it's still aggregatively between Amazon and Azure and Google, you know, 30% growth. And I think we're still in the second or third inning off a grand 1 trillion or 2 trillion of IT, shifting not all of it to the cloud, but significantly faster. So if you add up all of the big things of the on-premise world, they're, you know, they got to a certain size, their growth is stable, but stalling. These guys are growing significantly faster. And then if you add on top of them, platform companies the data companies, Snowflake, MongoDB, Databricks, you know, Datadog, and then apps companies on top of that. I think the move to the Cloud is inevitable. In SaaS companies, I don't know why you would ever implement a CRM solution on-prem. It's all gone to the Cloud. >> Oh, it is. >> That happened 15 years ago. I mean, begin within three, five years of the advent of Salesforce. And the same thing in HR. Why would you deploy a HR solution now? You've got Workday, you've got, you know, others that are so some of those apps markets are are just never coming back to an on-prem capability. >> Sanjay, I want to ask you, you built a reputation for being able to, you know, forecast accurately, hit your plan, you know, you hit your numbers, you're awesome operator. Even though you have a, you know, technology degree, which you know, that's a two-tool star, multi-tool star. But I call it the slingshot economy. This is like, I mean I've seen probably more downturns than anybody in here, you know, given... Well maybe, maybe- >> Maybe me. >> You and I both. I've never seen anything like this, where where visibility is so unpredictable. The economy is sling-shotting. It's like, oh, hurry up, go Covid, go, go go build, build, build supply, then pull back. And now going forward, now pulling back. Slootman said, you know, on the call, "Hey the guide, is the guide." He said, "we put it out there, We do our best to hit it." But you had CrowdStrike had issues you know, mid-market, ServiceNow. I saw McDermott on the other day on the, on the TV. I just want to pay, you know, buy from the guy. He's so (indistinct) >> But mixed, mixed results, Salesforce, you know, Octa now pre-announcing, hey, they're going to be, or announcing, you know, better visibility, forward guide. Elastic kind of got hit really hard. HPE and Dell actually doing really well in the enterprise. >> Yep. >> 'Course Dell getting killed in the client. But so what are you seeing out there? How, as an executive, do you deal with such poor visibility? >> I think, listen, what the last two or three years have taught us is, you know, with the supply chain crisis, with the surge that people thought you may need of, you know, spending potentially in the pandemic, you have to start off with your tech platform being 10 x better than everybody else. And differentiate, differentiate. 'Cause in a crowded market, but even in a market that's getting tougher, if you're not differentiating constantly through technology innovation, you're going to get left behind. So you named a few places, they're all technology innovators, but even if some of them are having challenges, and then I think you're constantly asking yourselves, how do you move from being a point product to a platform with more and more services where you're getting, you know, many of them moving really fast. In the case of Roe, I like him a lot. He's probably one of the most savvy operators, also that I respect. He calls these speedboats, and you know, his core platform started off with the firewall network security. But he's built now a very credible cloud security, cloud AI security business. And I think that's how you need to be thinking as a tech executive. I mean, if you got core, your core beachhead 10 x better than everybody else. And as you move to adjacencies in these new platforms, have you got now speedboats that are getting to a point where they are competitive advantage? Then as you think of the go-to-market perspective, it really depends on where you are as a company. For a company like our size, we need partners a lot more. Because if we're going to, you know, stand on the shoulders of giants like Isaac Newton said, "I see clearly because I stand on the shoulders giants." I need to really go and cultivate Amazon so they become our lead partner in cloud. And then appropriately Microsoft and Google where I need to. And security. Part of what we announced last week was, last month, yeah, last couple of weeks ago, was the data security alliance with the biggest security players. What was I trying to do with that? First time ever done in my industry was get Palo Alto, CrowdStrike, Wallace, Tenable, CyberArk, Splunk, all to build an alliance with me so I could stand on their shoulders with them helping me. If you're a bigger company, you're constantly asking yourself "how do you make sure you're getting your, like Amazon, their top hundred customers spending more with that?" So I think the the playbook evolves, and I'm watching some of these best companies through this time navigate through this. And I think leadership is going to be tested in enormously interesting ways. >> I'll say. I mean, Snowflake is really interesting because they... 67% growth, which is, I mean, that's best in class for a company that's $2 billion. And, but their guide was still, you know, pretty aggressive. You know, so it's like, do you, you know, when it when it's good times you go, "hey, we can we can guide conservatively and know we can beat it." But when you're not certain, you can't dial down too far 'cause your investors start to bail on you. It's a really tricky- >> But Dave, I think listen, at the end of the day, I mean every CEO should not be worried about the short term up and down in the stock price. You're building a long-term multi-billion dollar company. In the case of Frank, he has, I think I shot to a $10 billion, you know, analytics data warehousing data management company on the back of that platform, because he's eyeing the market that, not just Teradata occupies today, but now Oracle occupies or other databases, right? So his tam as it grows bigger, you're going to have some of these things, but that market's big. I think same with Palo Alto. I mean Datadog's another company, 75% growth. >> Yeah. >> At 20% margins, like almost rule of 95. >> Amazing. >> When they're going after, not just the observability market, they're eating up the sim market, security analytics, the APM market. So I think, you know, that's, you look at these case studies of companies who are going from point product to platforms and are steadily able to grow into new tams. You know, to me that's very inspiring. >> I get it. >> Sanjay: That's what I seek to do at our com. >> I get that it's a marathon, but you know, when you're at VMware, weren't you looking at the stock price every day just out of curiosity? I mean listen, you weren't micromanaging it. >> You do, but at the end of the day, and you certainly look at the days of earnings and so on so forth. >> Yeah. >> Because you want to create shareholder value. >> Yeah. >> I'm not saying that you should not but I think in obsession with that, you know, in a short term, >> Going to kill ya. >> Makes you, you know, sort of myopically focused on what may not be the right thing in the long term. Now in the long arc of time, if you're not creating shareholder value... Look at what happened to Steve Bomber. You needed Satya to come in to change things and he's created a lot of value. >> Dave: Yeah, big time. >> But I think in the short term, my comments were really on the quarter to quarter, but over a four a 12 quarter, if companies are growing and creating profitable growth, they're going to get the valuation they deserve. >> Dave: Yeah. >> Do you the... I want to ask you about something Arvind Krishna said in the previous IBM earnings call, that IT is deflationary and therefore it is resistant to the macroeconomic headwinds. So IT spending should actually thrive in a deflation, in a adverse economic climate. Do you think that's true? >> Not all forms of IT. I pay very close attention to surveys from, whether it's the industry analysts or the Morgan Stanleys, or Goldman Sachs. The financial analysts. And I think there's a gluc in certain sectors that will get pulled back. Traditional view is when the economies are growing people spend on the top line, front office stuff, sales, marketing. If you go and look at just the cloud 100 companies, which are the hottest private companies, and maybe with the public market companies, there's way too many companies focused on sales and marketing. Way too many. I think during a downsizing and recession, that's going to probably shrink some, because they were all built for the 2009 to 2021 era, where it was all about the top line. Okay, maybe there's now a proposition for companies who are focused on cost optimization, supply chain visibility. Security's been intangible, that I think is going to continue to an investment. So I tell, listen, if you are a tech investor or if you're an operator, pay attention to CIO priorities. And right now, in our business at Cohesity, part of the reason we've embraced things like ransomware protection, there is a big focus on security. And you know, by intelligently being a management and a security company around data, I do believe we'll continue to be extremely relevant to CIO budgets. There's a ransomware, 20 ransomware attempts every second. So things of that kind make you relevant in a bank. You have to stay relevant to a buying pattern or else you lose momentum. >> But I think what's happening now is actually IT spending's pretty good. I mean, I track this stuff pretty closely. It's just that expectations were so high and now you're seeing earnings estimates come down and so, okay, and then you, yeah, you've got the, you know the inflationary factors and your discounted cash flows but the market's actually pretty good. >> Yeah. >> You know, relative to other downturns that if this is not a... We're not actually not in a downturn. >> Yeah. >> Not yet anyway. It may be. >> There's a valuation there. >> You have to prepare. >> Not sales. >> Yeah, that's right. >> When I was on CNBC, I said "listen, it's a little bit like that story of Joseph. Seven years of feast, seven years of famine." You have to prepare for potentially your worst. And if it's not the worst, you're in good shape. So will it be a recession 2023? Maybe. You know, high interest rates, inflation, war in Russia, Ukraine, maybe things do get bad. But if you belt tightening, if you're focused in operational excellence, if it's not a recession, you're pleasantly surprised. If it is one, you're prepared for it. >> All right. I'm going to put you in the spot and ask you for predictions. Expert analysis on the World Cup. What do you think? Give us the breakdown. (group laughs) >> As my... I wish India was in the World Cup, but you can't get enough Indians at all to play soccer well enough, but we're not, >> You play cricket, though. >> I'm a US man first. I would love to see one of Brazil, or Argentina. And as a Messi person, I don't know if you'll get that, but it would be really special for Messi to lead, to end his career like Maradonna winning a World Cup. I don't know if that'll happen. I'm probably going to go one of the Latin American countries, if the US doesn't make it far enough. But first loyalty to the US team, and then after one of the Latin American countries. >> And you think one of the Latin American countries is best bet to win or? >> I don't know. It's hard to tell. They're all... What happens now at this stage >> So close, right? >> is anybody could win. >> Yeah. You just have lots of shots of gold. I'm a big soccer fan. It could, I mean, I don't know if the US is favored to win, but if they get far enough, you get to the finals, anybody could win. >> I think they get Netherlands next, right? >> That's tough. >> Really tough. >> But... The European teams are good too, but I would like to see US go far enough, and then I'd like to see Latin America with team one of Argentina, or Brazil. That's my prediction. >> I know you're a big Cricket fan. Are you able to follow Cricket the way you like? >> At god unearthly times the night because they're in Australia, right? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> I watched the T-20 World Cup, select games of it. Yeah, you know, I'm not rapidly following every single game but the World Cup games, I catch you. >> Yeah, it's good. >> It's good. I mean, I love every sport. American football, soccer. >> That's great. >> You get into basketball now, I mean, I hope the Warriors come back strong. Hey, how about the Warriors Celtics? What do we think? We do it again? >> Well- >> This year. >> I'll tell you what- >> As a Boston Celtics- >> I would love that. I actually still, I have to pay off some folks from Palo Alto office with some bets still. We are seeing unprecedented NBA performance this year. >> Yeah. >> It's amazing. You look at the stats, it's like nothing. I know it's early. Like nothing we've ever seen before. So it's exciting. >> Well, always a pleasure talking to you guys. >> Great to have you on. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thank you. Love the expert analysis. >> Sanjay Poonen. Dave Vellante. Keep it right there. re:Invent 2022, day four. We're winding up in Las Vegas. We'll be right back. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in enterprise and emerging tech coverage. (lighthearted soft music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, beautiful cloud community, and welcome back to AWS reInvent. It is day four here in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. My voice can feel it, clearly. I'm Savannah Peterson with my co-host Paul Gillin. Paul, how you doing? >> Doing fine, Savannah. >> Are your feet about where my voice is? >> Well, getting little rest here as we have back to back segments. >> Yeah, yeah, we'll keep you off those. Very excited about this next segment. We get to have a chat with one of our very favorite analysts, Keith Townsend. Welcome back to theCUBE. >> Savannah Page. I'm going to use your south names, Savannah Page. Thank you for having me, Paul. Good to see you again. It's been been too long since CubeCon Valencia. >> Valencia. >> Valencia. >> Well at that beautiful lisp, love that. Keith, how's the show been for you so far? >> It has been great. I tweeted it a couple of days ago. Amazon reInvent is back. >> Savannah: Whoo! Love that. >> 50, 60 thousand people, you know? After 40 thousand, I stop countin'. It has been an amazing show. I don't know if it's just the assignment of returning, but easily the best reInvent of the four that I've attended. >> Savannah: Love that. >> Paul: I love that we have you here because, you know, we tend to get anchored to these desks, and we don't really get a sense of what's going on out there. You've been spending the last four days traversing the floor and talking to people. What are you hearing? Are there any mega themes that are emerging? >> Keith: So, a couple of mega themes is... We were in the Allen session with Adam, and Adam bought up the idea of hybrid cloud. At the 2019 show, that would be unheard of. There's only one cloud, and that's the AWS cloud, when you're at the Amazon show. Booths, folks, I was at the VMware booth and there's a hybrid cloud sign session. People are talking about multicloud. Yes, we're at the AWS show, but the reality that most customers' environments are complex. Adam mentioned that it's hybrid today and more than likely to be hybrid in the future in Amazon, and the ecosystem has adjusted to that reality. >> Paul: Now, is that because they want sell more outposts? >> You know, outpost is definitely a part of the story, but it's a tactile realization that outposts alone won't get it. So, you know, from Todd Consulting, to Capgemini, to PWC, to many of the integrations on the show floor... I even saw company that's doing HP-UX in the cloud or on-prem. The reality is these, well, we've deemed these legacy systems aren't going anywhere. AWS announced the mainframe service last year for converting mainframe code into cloud workloads, and it's just not taking on the, I think, the way that the Amazon would like, and that's a reality that is too complex for all of it to run in the cloud. >> Paul: So it sounds like the strategy is to envelop and consume then if you have mainframe conversion services and HP-UX in the cloud, I mean, you're talking about serious legacy stuff there. >> Keith: You're talking about serious legacy stuff. They haven't de-emphasized their relationship with VMware. You know, hybrid is not a place, it is a operating model. So VMware cloud on AWS allows you to do both models concurrently if you have those applications that need layer two. You have these workloads that just don't... SAP just doesn't... Sorry, AWS, SAP in the cloud and EC2 just doesn't make financial sense. It's a reality. It's accepting of that and meeting customers where they're at. >> And all the collaboration, I mean, you've mentioned so many companies in that answer, and I think it's very interesting to see how much we're all going to have to work together to make the cloud its own operating system. Cloud as an OS came up on our last conversation here and I think it's absolutely fascinating. >> Keith: Yeah, cloud is the OS I think is a thing. This idea that I'm going to use the cloud as my base layer of abstraction. I've talked to a really interesting startup... Well actually it's a open source project cross plane of where they're taking that cloud model and now I can put my VMware vsphere, my AWS, GCP, et cetera, behind that and use that operating model to manage my overall infrastructure. So, the maturity of the market has fascinated me over the past year, year and a half. >> It really feels like we're at a new inflection point. I totally agree. I want to talk about something completely different. >> Keith: Okay. >> Because I know that we both did this challenge. So one of the things that's really inspiring quite frankly about being here at AWS reInvent, and I know you all at home don't have an opportunity to walk the floor and get the experience and get as many steps as Paul gets in, but there's a real emphasis on giving back. This community cares about giving back and AWS is doing a variety of different activations to donate to a variety of different charities. And there's a DJ booth. I've been joking. It kind of feels like you're arriving at a rave when you get to reInvent. And right next to that, there is a hydrate and help station with these reusable water bottles. This is actually firm. It's not one of those plastic ones that's going to end up in the recycled bin or the landfill. And every single time that you fill up your water bottle, AWS will donate $3 to help women in Kenya get access to water. One of the things that I found really fascinating about the activation is women in sub-Saharan Africa spend 16 million hours carrying water a day, which is a wild concept to think about, and water is heavy. Keith, my man, I know that you did the activation. They had you carrying two 20 pound jugs of water. >> Keith: For about 15 feet. It's not the... >> (laughs) >> 20 pound jugs of water, 20 gallons, whatever the amount is. It was extremely heavy. I'm a fairly sizeable guy. Six four, six five. >> You're in good shape, yeah. >> Keith: Couple of a hundred pounds. >> Yeah. >> Keith: And I could not imagine spending that many hours simply getting fresh water. We take it for granted. Every time I run the water in the sink, my family gets on me because I get on them when they leave the sink water. It's like my dad's left the light on. If you leave the water on in my house, you are going to hear it from me because, you know, things like this tickle in my mind like, wow, people walk that far. >> Savannah: That's your whole day. >> Just water, and that's probably not even enough water for the day. >> Paul: Yeah. We think of that as being, like, an 18th century phenomenon, but it's very much today in parts of Sub-Saharan Africa. >> I know, and we're so privileged. For me, it was just, we work in technology. Everyone here is pretty blessed, and to do that activation really got my head in the right space to think, wow I'm so lucky. The team here, the fabulous production team, can go refill my water bottle. I mean, so simple. They've also got a fitness activation going on. You can jump on a bike, a treadmill, and if you work out for five minutes, they donate $5 to Fred Hutch up in Seattle. And that was nice. I did a little cross-training in between segments yesterday and I just, I really love seeing that emphasis. None of this matters if we're not taking care of community. >> Yeah, I'm going to go out and google Fred Hutch, and just donate the five bucks. 'Cause I'm not, I'm not. >> (laughs) >> I'll run forever, but I'm not getting on a bike. >> This from a guy who did 100 5Ks in a row last year. >> Yeah. I did 100 5Ks in a row, and I'm not doing five minutes on a bike. That's it. That's crazy, right? >> I mean there is a treadmill And they have the little hands workout thing too if you want. >> About five minutes though. >> Savannah: I know. >> Like five minutes is way longer than what you think it is. >> I mean, it's true. I was up there in a dress in sequence. Hopefully, I didn't scar any anyone on the show floor yesterday. It's still toss up. >> I'm going to take us back to back. >> Take us back Paul. >> Back to what we were talking about. I want to know what you're hearing. So we've had a lot of people on this show, a lot of vendors on the show who have said AWS is our most important cloud partner, which would imply that AWS's lead is solidifying its lead and pulling away from the pack as the number one. Do you hear that as well? Or is that lip service? >> Keith: So I always think about AWS reInvent as the Amazon victory lap. This is where they come and just thumb their noses at all the other cloud providers and just show how far ahead they're are. Werner Vogels, CTO at Amazon's keynotes, so I hadn't watched it yet, but at that keynote, this is where they literally take the victory lap and say that we're going to expose what we did four or five years ago on stage, and what we did four or five years ago is ahead of every cloud provider with maybe the exception of GCP and they're maybe three years behind. So customers are overwhelmingly choosing Amazon for these reasons. Don't get me wrong, Corey Quinn, Gardner folks, really went at Adam yesterday about Amazon had three majors outages in December last year. AWS has way too many services that are disconnected, but from the pure capability, I talked to a born in the cloud data protection company who could repatriate their data protection and storage on-prem private data center, save money. Instead, they double down on Amazon. They're using, they modernize their application and they're reduced their cost by 60 to 70%. >> Massive. >> This is massive. AWS is keeping up with customers no matter where they're at on the spectrum. >> Savannah: I love that you use the term victory lap. We've had a lot of folks from AWS here up on the show this week, and a couple of them have said they live for this. I mean, and it's got to be pretty cool. You've got 70 thousand plus people obsessed with your product and so many different partners doing so many different things from the edge to hospital to the largest companies on earth to the Israeli Ministry of Defense we were just talking about earlier, so everybody needs the cloud. I feel like that's where we're at. >> Keith: Yeah, and the next step, I think the next level opportunity for AWS is to get to that analyst or that citizen developer, being able to enable the end user to use a lambda, use these data services to create new applications, and the meanwhile, there's folks on the show floor filling that gap that enable develop... the piece of owner, the piece of parlor owner, to create a web portal that compares his prices and solutions to other vendors in his area and adjust dynamically. You go into a restaurant now and there is no price menu. There's a QR code that Amazon is powering much of that dynamic relationship between the restaurateur, the customer, and even the menu and availability. It's just a wonderful time. >> I always ask for the print menu. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. You want the printed menu. >> Look down, my phone doesn't work. >> Gimme something I could shine my light on. >> I know you didn't have have a chance to look at Vogel's keynote yet, but I mean you mentioned citizen developer. One of the things they announced this morning was essentially a low code lambda interface. So you can plug, take your lamb dysfunctions and do drag and drop a connection between them. So they are going after that market. >> Keith: So I guess I'll take my victory lap because that was my prediction. That's where Amazon's next... >> Well done, Keith. >> Because Lambda is that thing when you look at what server list was and the name of the concept of being, not having to have to worry about servers in your application development, the logical next step, I won't take too much of a leap. That logical first step is, well, code less code. This is something that Kelsey Hightower has talked about a lot. Low code, no code, the ability to empower people without having these artificial barriers, learning how to code in a different language. This is the time where I can go to Valencia, it's pronounced, where I can go to Valencia and not speak Spanish and just have my phone. Why can't we do, at business value, for people who have amazing ideas and enable those amazing ideas before I have to stick a developer in between them and the system. >> Paul: Low-code market is growing 35% a year. It's not surprising, given the potential that's out there. >> And as a non-technical person, who works in technology, I've been waiting for this moment. So keep predicting this kind of thing, Keith. 'Cause hopefully it'll keep happening. Keith, I'm going to give you the challenge we've been giving all of our guests this week. >> Keith: Okay. >> And I know you're going to absolutely crush this. So we are looking for your 32nd Instagram real, sizzle hot take, biggest takeaway from this year's show. >> So 32nd Instagram, I'll even put it on TikTok. >> Savannah: Heck yeah. >> Hybrid cloud, hybrid infrastructure. This is way bigger than Amazon. Whether we're talking about Amazon, AWS, I mean AWS's solutions, Google Cloud, Azure, OCI, on-prem. Customers want it all. They want a way to manage it all, and they need the skill and tools to enable their not-so-growing work force to do it. That is, that's AWS reInvent 2019 to 2022. >> Absolutely nailed it. Keith Townsend, it is always such a joy to have you here on theCUBE. Thank you for joining us >> Savannah Page. Great to have you. Paul, you too. You're always a great co-host. >> (laughs) We co-hosted for three days. >> We've got a lot of love for each other here. And we have even more love for all of you tuning into our fabulous livestream from AWS reInvent Las Vegas, Nevada, with Paul Gillin. I'm Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. (upbeat music)

(gentle music) >> Good morning, fellow cloud nerds, and welcome back to day four of AWS re:Invent. We are here in fabulous Las Vegas, Nevada. I'm joined by my cohost Paul Gillin. I'm Savannah Peterson. We're on theCUBE. Paul, how you doing? You doing well? >> We're staggering to the conclusion. >> (laughing) It's almost the end then. >> And I say that only talking about my feet. This event is still going strong. The great keynote this morning by Werner Vogels about system architecture and really teaching 70,000 people how to design systems. AWS really taking advantage of this event to educate its customer base and- >> So much education here. >> Yeah, and that was a fantastic sort of cap to the keynotes we've seen this week. >> Yeah, I'm impressed Paul, our first AWS re:Invent. I think we're doing pretty good all things considered. >> Well, we're still alive. >> And our next guest actually looks like he's been sleeping this week, which is remarkable. Please welcome Ayal to the show. Ayal, how you doing today? >> I'm good, I'm good. Thank you for having me. >> It's our pleasure. You're with Anjuna. >> Yes. >> Just in case the audience isn't familiar, what's Anjuna? >> Anjuna is an enterprise security company. We focus in the space of confidential computing. And essentially we enable people to run anything they want in any environment with complete security and privacy. >> Which is a top priority for pretty much every single person here. >> Ayal: That is true. >> Now, confidential computing, I keep hearing that term. >> Yeah, let's go there. >> Is it, I mean, is there a trademark associated with it? Is there a certification? Is the concept or is it actually a set of principles and frameworks? >> Savannah: Give us the scoop. >> Yeah, so confidential computing is essentially a set of technologies that were added to the hardware itself, to the CPU, and now to GPUs by the hardware vendors. So Intel, AMD, Arm, Nvidia AWS with their own hardware solution for this. And essentially what it allows you to do is to run workloads on top of the CPU and the GPU in a way that even if somebody gets full access to the infrastructure, you know, root access, physical access, they're not going to have any access to the data and the code running on top of it. And as you can imagine in cloud environments, this is extremely, extremely (indistinct). >> And this done through encryption? >> It involves encryption. If you go one step deeper, it involves protecting the data while it's running, data and memory, when the application is processing it. Which is always been the missing piece in terms of where you protect data. >> So I got excited when I looked at the show notes because you are serving some of the most notoriously security strict customers in the market. Can you tell us about the Israeli Ministry of Defense? >> Sure. So essentially what we do with the Israel Ministry of Defense and other customers, especially on the on the government side, one of the challenges government has is that they have to, if they want security and privacy in the cloud, they have to use something like a gov cloud. And sometimes that makes sense, but sometimes either the gov cloud is not ready because of legal battles or just it takes time to set it up. In some countries, it's just not going to make financial sense for the clouds to create a gov cloud. So what we do is we enable them to run in the commercial cloud with the security and privacy of a gov cloud. >> Was that, I can imagine, so you took them to the public cloud, correct? >> Ayal: Yes. >> Was that a challenging process? When I think of national security, I can imagine a business transformation like that would be a little nerve-wracking. >> Oh, definitely. It was a long process and they went like, "This is probably one of the best security experts on the planet." And they went extremely deep in making sure that this aligns with what they would be able to do to actually move sensitive data to the commercial cloud. Which, obviously, that the requirements are higher than anything I've ever seen from anybody else. And the fact that they were willing to publicly talk about this and be a public reference for us shows the level of confidence that they have in the underlying technology, in the security and privacy that this allows them to achieve. >> We still hear reservations, particularly from heavily regulated industries, about moving into the cloud. Concerns about security, data ownership, shared responsibility. >> Ayal: Yes. >> Are those real, are those valid? Or is the technology foundation now strong enough that they should not be worried about those things? >> Yeah, this is an excellent question, because the the shared responsibility model, is exactly sort of the core of what this is about. The shared responsibility model essentially means the cloud's, sort of by definition, the cloud is somebody else managing the infrastructure for you, right? And if somebody's managing the infrastructure for you they have full access to what you do on top of that infrastructure. That's almost the definition. And that's always been sort of one of the core security problems that was never solved. Confidential computing solves this. It means that you can use the cloud without the clouds having any access to what you do on top of their infrastructure. And that means that if the clouds get hacked, your data is safe. If an employee of the cloud decides to get access to your data, they can't. They just don't have any access. Or if the government comes to the cloud with a subpoena, the clouds can't give them access to your data, which is obviously very important for European customers and other customers outside of the US. So this is essentially what confidential computing does and it allows to break that shared responsibility model, where you as the customer get full control of your data back. >> Now, do you need the hardware foundation to do that? Or are you solving this problem in software? >> No. So we do need a hardware foundation for this which is now available in every cloud. And it's part of every server CPU that Intel ship, that AMD ship. This is part of almost every data center in AWS. But what we bring to the table at Anjuna, is every time there was a fundamental shift in computer architecture, you needed a software stack on top of it to essentially make it usable. And I think the best last example was VMware, right? But virtualization was extremely powerful technology that nobody was using until VMware built a software stack to make it super simple to virtualize anything. And to some extent that was the birth of the public cloud. We would never have a public cloud without virtualization. We're seeing the same level of shift now with confidential computing on the hardware side. And all the large players are behind this. They're all part of the confidential computing consortium that pushes this. But the challenge customers are running into, is for them to go use this they have to go refactor and rebuild every application. >> Why? >> And nobody's going to go do that. And that's exactly what we help them with. >> Yeah. >> In terms of why, as part of confidential computing, what it essentially means is that the operating system is outside the cross cycle. You, you don't want to cross the operating system because you don't want somebody with root access to have any access to your data. And what this means is every application obviously communicates with the operating system pretty often, right? To send something to the network or some, you know, save something to the file system, which means you have to re-architect your application and break it into two: a confidential piece and a piece that's communicating with the operating system and build some channel for the two sides to communicate. Nobody's going to go do that for every application. We allow you to essentially do something like Anjuna run application and it just runs in a confidential computing environment. No changes. >> Let's talk a little bit more about that. So when we're thinking about, I think we've talked a little bit about it, but I think there's a myth of control when we're talking about on-prem. Everybody thinks that things are more secure. >> Right. >> It's not the case. Tell us how enterprise security changes once when a customer has adopted Anjuna. >> Yeah, so I think you're absolutely right. I think the clouds can put a lot more effort and expertise into bringing security than the data center. But you definitely have this sort of more sense of security in your data center because you own the full stack, right? It's your people, it's your servers, it's your networks in the cloud >> Savannah: It's in your house, so to speak. Yeah. >> Exactly. And the cloud is the third party managing all that for you. And people get very concerned about that, and to some extent for a good reason. Because if a breach happens regardless of whose fault it is, the customer's going to be the one sort of left holding the bag and dealing with the aftermath of the breach. So they're right to be concerned. In terms of what we do, once you run things in confidential computing, you sort of solve the core problem of security. One of the core problems of security has always been when somebody gets access to the infrastructure especially root access to the infrastructure, it's game over. They have access to everything. And a lot of how security's been built is almost like these bandaid solutions to try to solve. Like perimeter security is how do I make sure nobody gets access to the infrastructure if they don't need to, right? All these detection solutions is once they're in the infrastructure, how do I detect that they've done something they shouldn't have? A lot of the vulnerability management is how do I make sure everything is patched? Because if somebody gets access how do I make sure they don't get root access? And then they really get access to everything. And conversation computing solves all of that. It solves the root cause, the root problem. So even if somebody gets root access, even if somebody has full access to the infrastructure, they don't have access to anything, which allows you to one, essentially move anything you want to the public cloud regardless, of the sensitivity of it, but also get rid of a lot of these other sort of bandaid solutions that you use today to try to stop people from getting that access because it doesn't matter anymore. >> Okay. So cyber security is a one and a half trillion dollar industry, growing at over 10% a year. Are you saying that if organizations were to adopt confidential computing universally that industry would not be necessary? >> No, I think a lot of it will have to change with confidential computing. Exactly, like the computer industry changed with virtualization. If you had asked when VMware just got started if the data centers are going to like, "Oh, this is going to happen," I don't think anybody could have foreseen this. But this is exactly what virtualization did. Confidential computing will change the the security industry in a massive way, but it doesn't solve every security problem. What it essentially does is it moves the perimeter from the machine itself, which used to be sort of the smallest atom, to be around the workload. And what happens in the machine doesn't matter anymore. You still need to make sure that your workload is protected. So companies that make sure that you write secure code are still going to be needed. Plus you're going to need security for things like denial of service. Because if somebody runs, you know, gets access to their infrastructure, they can stop you from running but your data is going to be protected. You're not going to need any of these data protection solutions around the box anymore. >> Let's hang out there for a second. Where do you see, I mean what an exciting time to be you, quite frankly, and congratulations on all of your success so far. Where are we going in the next two to five years? >> Yeah, I think with confidential computing the first thing that this is going to enable is essentially moving everything to the public cloud. I think the number one concern with the cloud kind of like you mentioned, is security and privacy. >> Savannah: Right. >> And this essentially eliminates that need. And that's why the clouds are so excited about this. That's why AWS talks about it. And I think Steve Schmidt, the of CISO of Amazon, used to be the CISO of AWS, talks about confidential computing as the future of data security and privacy. And there's a reason why he does that. We've seen other clouds talk about this and push this. That's why the clouds are so excited about this. But even more so again, I think over time this will allow you to essentially remove a lot of the security tools that exist there, kind of reimagine security in a better way. >> Savannah: Clean it up a little bit. Yeah. >> Exactly. And over time, I think it's going to change the world of compute even more because one of the things this allows you to do is the closer you get to the edge, the more security and privacy problems you have. >> Savannah: Right. And so many variables. >> Exactly. And it's basically out there in the wild, and people can get physical access. >> Quite literally a lot of the time, yeah. >> Exactly. And what confidential computing does, it provides that complete security and privacy regardless of even if somebody has physical access, which will allow you to move workloads much closer to the edge or to the edge itself instead of sending everything back to your backend to process things. >> We have interviewed a number of security companies here during this event, and I have to say, confidential computing has never come up. They don't talk about it. Why is that? Is there an awareness problem? >> Savannah: Are they threatened? >> Yeah, so I think the biggest, and to some extent, this is exactly like I kept bringing up VMware. Like VMware's, you can think of Salesforce, when they talked about SaaS, they sort of embedded the concept of SaaS. No other company on the planet was talking about SaaS. They created a new category and now almost everything is SaaS. VMware with virtualization, right? Nobody was using it, and now, almost everything is virtualized. Confidential computing is a new way of doing things. It's basically a kind have to shift the way of how you think about security and how you think about privacy. And this is exactly what we're seeing. I don't expect other security companies to talk about this. And to some extent, one of the things I've realized that we're almost more of an infrastructure company than a security company, because we bake security to be part of the infrastructure. But we're seeing more and more the clouds talk about this. The CPU vendors talk about this. We talk to customers more and more. Like almost every large bank I talk to now has a confidential computing strategy for 2023. This is now becoming part of the mainstream. And yeah, security companies will have to adopt or die if they don't fit into that new world that it is going to create >> This is the new world order, baby, get on the train or get left behind. >> Ayal: Exactly. >> I love it. This is a really fascinating conversation and honestly what you're doing makes so much sense. Yeah, you don't need me to validate your business model, but I will, just for the sake of that. >> Thank you. >> We have a new challenge here at re:Invent on theCUBE where we are looking for your 30 second Instagram reel hot take, thought leadership. What's the biggest theme, key takeaway from the show or experience this year for you? >> Yeah, so for me, obviously focusing on confidential computing. I think this is just going to be similar to how no network was encrypted 10 years ago and today every network is encrypted with TLS and HTTPS. And how five years ago no disc was encrypted, and today every disc is encrypted with disc encryption. The one missing piece is memory. Memory is where data is exposed now. I think within a few years all memory is going to be encrypted and it's just going to change two industries: the security industry as well as the computer industry. >> Paul: Does that include cache memory? >> What's that? >> Does that include cache memory? >> That is encrypting the RAM essentially. So everything, this is the one last place where data is not encrypted, and that's exactly what confidential computing brings to the table. >> Are there any performance concerns with encrypting memory? >> That's a phenomenal question. One of the really nice things about confidential computing is that the heavy lifting is done by the hardware vendors themselves as part of the hardware and not part of the critical path in the CPU. It's very similar to the TLS acceleration cards, if you remember those, which allows us to be extremely, extremely performant. And that's why I think this is going to be for everything. Because every time we had a security solution that had no performance impact and was super simple to use it just became the default, because why wouldn't you use it for everything? >> Ayal, this has been absolutely fascinating. We could talk to you all day. Unfortunately, we're out of time. But really thank you so much for coming on the show. Now, we feel more confident in terms of our confidential computing knowledge and definitely learned a lot. Thank all of you for tuning in to our fantastic four day live stream at AWS re:Invent here in Sin City with Paul Gillin. I'm Savannah Peterson. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in high tech coverage. (gentle music)

(upbeat music) >> Welcome to theCube's coverage of AWS Storage Day. We're here with a couple of AWS product experts. Covering AWS's migration and transfer services, Randy Boutin is the general manager of AWS DataSync, and Mat Matthews, GM of AWS Transfer Family. Guys, good to see you again. Thanks for coming on. >> Dave, thanks. >> So look, we saw during the pandemic, the acceleration to cloud migration. We've tracked that, we've quantified that. What's driving that today? >> Yeah, so Dave, great to be back here. Saw you last year at Storage Day. >> Nice to be in studio too, isn't it? Thanks, guys, for coming in. >> We've conquered COVID. >> So yeah, I mean, this is a great question. I think digital transformation is really what's driving a lot of the focus right now from companies, and it's really not about just driving down costs. It's also about what are the opportunities available once you get into the cloud in terms of, what does that unlock in terms of innovation? So companies are focused on the usual things, optimizing costs, but ensuring they have the right security and agility. You know, a lot has happened over the last year, and companies need to be able to react, right? They need to be able to react quickly, so cloud gives them a lot of these capabilities, but the real benefit that we see is that once your data's in the cloud, it opens up the power of the cloud for analytics, for new application development, and things of that sort, so what we're seeing is that companies are really just focused on understanding cloud migration strategy, and how they can get their data there, and then use that to unlock that data for the value. >> I mean, if I've said it once, I've said it 100 times, if you weren't a digital business during the pandemic, you were out of business. You know, migration historically is a bad word in IT. Your CIOs see it and go, "Ugh." So what's the playbook for taking years of data on-prem, and moving it into the cloud? What are you seeing as best practice there? >> Yeah, so as you said, the migration historically has been painful, right? And it's a daunting task for any business or any IT executive, but fortunately, AWS has a broad suite of capabilities to help enable these migrations. And by that, I mean, we have tools to help you understand your existing on-prem workloads, understand what services in the AWS offering align to those needs, but also help you estimate the cost, right? Cost is a big part of this move. We can help you estimate that cost, and predict that cost, and then use tools like DataSync to help you move that data when that time comes. >> So you're saying you help predict the cost of the migration, or the cost of running in the cloud? >> Running in the cloud, right. Yeah, we can help estimate the run time. Based on the performance that we assess on-prem, we can then project that into a cloud service, and estimate that cost. >> So can you guys explain DataSync? Sometimes I get confused, DataSync, what's the difference between DataSync and Storage Gateway? And I want to get into when we should use each, but let's start there if we could. >> Yeah, sure, I'll take that. So Storage Gateway is primarily a means for a customer to access their data in the cloud from on-prem. All right, so if you have an application that you want to keep on-prem, you're not ready yet to migrate that application to the cloud, Gateway is a strong solution, because you can move a lot of that data, a lot of your cold or long tail data into something like S3 or EFS, but still access it from your on-prem location. DataSync's all about data movement, so if you need to move your data from A to B, DataSync is your optimized solution to do that. >> Are you finding that people, that's ideally a one time move, or is it actually, sometimes you're seeing customers do it more? Again, moving data, if I don't- Move as much data as you need to, but no more, to paraphrase Einstein. >> What we're seeing in DataSync is that customers do use DataSync for their initial migration. They'll also, as Matt was mentioning earlier, once you get your data into the cloud, that flywheel of potential starts to take hold, and customers want to ultimately move that data within the cloud to optimize its value. So you might move from service to service. You might move from EFS to S3, et cetera, to enable the cloud flywheel to benefit you. DataSync does that as well, so customers use us to initially migrate, they use us to move within the cloud, and also we just recently announced service for other clouds, so you can actually bring data in now from Google and Azure as well. >> Oh, how convenient. So okay, so that's cool. So you helped us understand the use cases, but can we dig one more layer, like what protocols are supported? I'm trying to understand really the right fit for the right job. >> Yeah, so that's really important. So for transfer specifically, one of the things that we see with customers is you've got obviously a lot of internal data within your company, but today it's a very highly interconnected world, so companies deal with lots of business partners, and historically they've used, there's a big prevalence of using file transfer to exchange data with business partners, and as you can imagine, there's a lot of value in that data, right? Sometimes it's purchase orders, inventory data from suppliers, or things like that. So historically customers have had protocols like SFTP or FTP to help them interface with or exchange data or files with external partners. So for transfer, that's what we focus on is helping customers exchange data over those existing protocols that they've used for many years. And the real focus is it's one thing to migrate your own data into the cloud, but you can't force thousands or tens of thousands sometimes of partners to also work in a different way to get you their data, so we want to make that very seamless for customers using the same exact protocols like SFTP that they've used for years. We just announced AS2 protocol, which is very heavily used in supply chains to exchange inventory and information across multi-tiers of partners, and things of that nature. So we're really focused on letting customers not have to impact their partners, and how they work and how they exchange, but also take advantage of the data, so get that data into the cloud so they can immediately unlock the value with analytics. >> So AS2 is specifically in the context of supply chain, and I'm presuming it's secure, and kind of governed, and safe. Can you explain that a little bit? >> Yeah, so AS2 has a lot of really interesting features for transactional type of exchanges, so it has signing and encryption built in, and also has notification so you can basically say, "Hey, I sent you this purchase order," and to prove that you received it, it has capability called non-repudiation, which means it's actually a legal transaction. So those things are very important in transactional type of exchanges, and allows customers in supply chains, whether it's vendors dealing with their suppliers, or transportation partners, or things like that to leverage file transfer for those types of exchanges. >> So encryption, providence of transactions, am I correct, without having to use the blockchain, and all the overhead associated with that? >> It's got some built in capabilities. >> I mean, I love blockchain, but there's drawbacks. >> Exactly, and that's why it's been popular. >> That's really interesting, 'cause Andy Jassy one day, I was on a phone call with him and John Furrier, and we were talking up crypto and blockchain. He said, "Well, why do, explain to me." You know Jassy, right? He always wants to go deeper. "Explain why I can't do this with some other approach." And so I think he was recognizing some of the drawbacks. So that's kind of a cool thing, and it leads me- We're running this obviously today, August 10th. Yesterday we had our Supercloud event in Palo Alto on August 9th, and it's all about the ecosystem. One of the observations we made about the 2020s is the cloud is totally different now. People are building value on top of the infrastructure that you guys have built out over the last 15 years. And so once an organization's data gets into the cloud, how does it affect, and it relates to AS2 somewhat, how does it affect the workflows in terms of interacting with external partners, and other ecosystem players that are also in the cloud? >> Yeah, great, yeah, again, we want to try and not have to affect those workflows, take them as they are as much as possible, get the data exchange working. One of the things that we focus on a lot is, how do you process this data once it comes in? Every company has governance requirements, security requirements, and things like that, so they usually have a set of things that they need to automate and orchestrate for the data as it's coming in, and a lot of these companies use something called Managed File Transfer Solutions that allow them to automate and orchestrate those things. We also see that many times this is very customer specific, so a bank might have a certain set of processes they have to follow, and it needs to be customized. As you know, AWS is a great solution for building custom solutions, and actually today, we're just announcing a new set of of partners in a program called the Service Delivery Program with AWS Transfer Family that allows customers to work with partners that are very well versed in transfer family and related services to help build a very specific solution that allows them to build that automation orchestration, and keep their partners kind of unaware that they're interfacing in a different way. >> And once this data is in the cloud, or actually, maybe stays on-prem in some cases, but it basically plugs in to the AWS services portfolio, the whole security model, the governance model, shared responsibility comes in, is that right? It's all, sort of all in there? >> Yeah, that's right, that's exactly right, and we're working with it's all about the customer's needs, and making sure that their investment in AWS doesn't disrupt their existing workflows and their relationships with their customers and their partners, and that's exactly what Matt's been describing is we're taking a close look at how we can extend the value of AWS, integrate into our customer's workflows, and bring that value to them with minimal investment or disruption. >> So follow up on that. So I love that, because less disruption means it's easier, less friction, and I think of like, trying to think of examples. Think about data de-duplication like purpose-built backup appliances, right? Data domain won that battle, because they could just plug right in. Avamar, they were trying to get you to redo everything, okay, and so we saw that movie play out. At the same time, I've talked to CIOs that say, "I love that, but the cloud opens up all these cool new opportunities for me to change my operating model." So are you seeing that as well? Where okay, we make it easy to get in. We're not disrupting workflows, and then once they get in, they say, "Well if we did it this way, we'd take out a bunch of costs. We'd accelerate our business." What's that dynamic like? >> Exactly that, right. So that moved to the Cloud Continuum. We don't think it's going to be binary. There's always going to be something on-prem. We accept that, but there's a continuum there, so day one, they'll migrate a portion of that workload into the cloud, start to extract and see value there, but then they'll continue, as you said, they'll continue to see opportunities. With all of the various capabilities that AWS has to offer, all the value that represents, they'll start to see that opportunity, and then start to engage and consume more of those features over time. >> Great, all right, give us the bumper sticker. What's next in transfer services from your perspectives? >> Yeah, so we're obviously always going to listen to our customers, that's our focus. >> You guys say that a lot. (all laughing) We say it a lot. But yeah, so we're focused on helping customers again increase that level of automation orchestration, again that suite of capability, generally, in our industry, known as managed file transfer, when a file comes in, it needs to get maybe encrypted, or decrypted, or compressed, or decompressed, scanned for viruses, those kind of capabilities, make that easier for customers. If you remember last year at Storage Day, we announced a low code workflow framework that allows customers to kind of build those steps. We're continuing to add built-in capabilities to that so customers can easily just say, "Okay, I want these set of activities to happen when files come in and out." So that's really what's next for us. >> All right, Randy, we'll give you the last word. Bring us home. >> I'm going to surprise you with the customer theme. >> Oh, great, love it. >> Yeah, so we're listening to customers, and what they're asking for our support for more sources, so we'll be adding support for more cloud sources, more on-prem sources, and giving the customers more options, also performance and usability, right? So we want to make it easier, as the enterprise continues to consume the cloud, we want to make DataSync and the movement of their data as easy as possible. >> I've always said it starts with the data. S3, that was the first service, and the other thing I've said a lot is the cloud is expanding. We're seeing connections to on-prem. We're seeing connections out to the edge. It's just becoming this massive global system, as Werner Vogels talks about all the time. Thanks, guys, really appreciate it. >> Dave, thank you very much. >> Thanks, Dave. >> All right, keep it right there for more coverage of AWS Storage Day 2022. You're watching theCube. (upbeat music)

>>Welcome back to the cubes, continuous coverage of AWS storage day. We're in beautiful downtown Seattle in the great Northwest. My name is Dave Vellante and we're going to talk about file systems. File systems are really tricky and making those file systems elastic is even harder. They've got a long history of serving a variety of use cases as with me as Duncan Lennox. Who's the general manager of Amazon elastic file system. Dunkin. Good to see you again, Dave. Good to see you. So tell me more around the specifically, uh, Amazon's elastic file system EFS you, you know, broad file portfolio, but, but let's narrow in on that. What do we need to know? >>Yeah, well, Amazon elastic file system or EFS as we call it is our simple serverless set and forget elastic file system service. So what we mean by that is we deliver something that's extremely simple for customers to use. There's not a lot of knobs and levers. They need to turn or pull to make it work or manage it on an ongoing basis. The serverless part of it is there's absolutely no infrastructure for customers to manage. We handled that entirely for them. The elastic part then is the file system automatically grows and shrinks as they add and delete data. So they never have to provision storage or risk running out of storage and they pay only for the storage they're actually using. >>What are the sort of use cases and workloads that you see EFS supporting? >>Yeah. Yeah. It has to support a broad set of customer workloads. So it's everything from, you know, serial, highly latency, sensitive applications that customers might be running on-prem today and want to move to the AWS cloud up to massively parallel scale-out workloads that they have as well. >>So. Okay. Are there any industry patterns that you see around that? Are there other industries that sort of lean in more or is it more across the board? We >>See it across the board, although I'd have to say that we see a lot of adoption within compliance and regulated industries. And a lot of that is because of not only our simplicity, but the high levels of availability and durability that we bring to the file system as well. The data is designed for 11 nines of durability. So essentially you don't need to be worrying about your anything happening into your data. And it's a regional service meaning that your file system is available from all availability zones in a particular region for high availability. >>So as part of storage data, we, we saw some, some new tiering announcements. W w w what can you tell us about those >>Super excited to be announcing EFS intelligent tiering? And this is a capability that we're bringing to EFS that allows customers to automatically get the best of both worlds and get cost optimization for their workloads and how it works is the customer can select, uh, using our lifecycle management capability, a policy for how long they want their data to remain active in one of our active storage classes, seven days, for example, or 30 days. And what we do is we automatically monitor every access to every file they have. And if we see no access to a file for their policy period, like seven days or 30 days, we automatically and transparently move that file to one of our cost optimized, optimized storage classes. So they can save up to 92% on their storage costs. Um, one of the really cool things about intelligent tiering then is if that data ever becomes active again and their workload or their application, or their users need to access it, it's automatically moved back to a performance optimized storage class, and this is all completely transparent to their applications and users. >>So, so how, how does that work? Are you using some kind of machine intelligence to sort of monitor things and just learn over time? And like, what if I policy, what if I don't get it quite right? Or maybe I have some quarter end or maybe twice a year, you know, I need access to that. Can you, can the system help me figure >>That out? Yeah. The beauty of it is you don't need to know how your application or workload is accessing the file system or worry about those access patterns changing. So we'll take care of monitoring every access to every file and move the file either to the cost optimized storage class or back to the performance optimized class as needed by your application. >>And then optimized storage classes is again, selected by the system. I don't have to >>It that's right. It's completely transparent. So we will take care of that for you. So you'll set the policy by which you want active data to be moved to the infrequent access cost optimized storage class, like 30 or seven days. And then you can set a policy that says if that data is ever touched again, to move it back to the performance optimized storage class. So that's then all happened automatically by the service on our side. You don't need to do anything >>It's, it's it's serverless, which means what I don't have to provision any, any compute infrastructure. >>That's right. What you get is an end point, the ability to Mount your file system using NFS, or you can also manage your file system from any of our compute services in AWS. So not only directly on an instance, but also from our serverless compute models like AWS Lambda and far gays, and from our container services like ECS and EKS, and all of the infrastructure is completely managed by us. You don't see it, you don't need to worry about it. We scale it automatically for you. >>What was the catalyst for all this? I mean, you know, you got to tell me it's customers, but maybe you could give me some, some insight and add some, some color. Like, what would you decoded sort of what the customers were saying? Did you get inputs from a lot of different places, you know, and you had to put that together and shape it. Uh, tell us, uh, take us inside that sort of how you came to where you are >>Today. Well, you know, I guess at the end of the day, when you think about storage and particularly file system storage, customers always want more performance and they want lower costs. So we're constantly optimizing on both of those dimensions. How can we find a way to deliver more value and lower cost to customers, but also meet the performance needs that their workloads have. And what we found in talking to customers, particularly the customers that EFS targets, they are application administrators, their dev ops practitioners, their data scientists, they have a job they want to do. They're not typically storage specialists. They don't want to have know or learn a lot about the bowels of storage architecture, and how to optimize for what their applications need. They want to focus on solving the business problems. They're focused on whatever those are >>You meaning, for instance. So you took tiering is obvious. You're tiering to lower cost storage, serverless. I'm not provisioning, you know, servers, myself, the system I'm just paying for what I use. The elasticity is a factor. So I'm not having to over provision. And I think I'm hearing, I don't have to spend my time turning knobs. You've talked about that before, because I don't know how much time is spent, you know, tuning systems, but it's gotta be at least 15 to 20% of the storage admins time. You're eliminating that as well. Is that what you mean by sort of cost optimum? Absolutely. >>So we're, we're providing the scale of capacity of performance that customer applications need as they needed without the customer needing to know exactly how to configure the service, to get what they need. We're dealing with changing workloads and changing access patterns. And we're optimizing their storage costs. As at the same time, >>When you guys step back, you get to the whiteboard out, say, okay, what's the north star that you're working because you know, you set the north star. You don't want to keep revisiting that, right? This is we're moving in this direction. How do we get there might change, but what's your north star? Where do you see the future? >>Yeah, it's really all about delivering simple file system storage that just works. And that sounds really easy, but there's a lot of nuance and complexity behind it, but customers don't want to have to worry about how it works. They just need it to work. And we, our goal is to deliver that for a super broad cross section of applications so that customers don't need to worry about how they performance tune or how they cost optimize. We deliver that value for them. >>Yeah. So I'm going to actually follow up on that because I feel like, you know, when you listen to Werner Vogels talk, he gives takes you inside. It's a plumbing sometimes. So what is the, what is that because you're right. That it, it sounds simple, but it's not. And as I said up front file systems, getting that right is really, really challenging. So technically what's the challenges, is it doing this at scale? And, and, and, and, and, and having some, a consistent experience for customers, there's >>Always a challenge to doing what we do at scale. I mean, the elasticity is something that we provide to our customers, but ultimately we have to take their data as bits and put them into Adams at some point. So we're managing infrastructure on the backend to support that. And we also have to do that in a way that delivers something that's cost-effective for customers. So there's a balance and a natural tension there between things like elasticity and simplicity, performance, cost, availability, and durability, and getting that balance right. And being able to cover the maximum cross section of all those things. So for the widest set of workloads, we see that as our job and we're delivering value, and we're doing that >>For our customers. Then of course, it was a big part of that. And of course, when we talk about, you know, the taking away the, the need for tuning, but, but you got to get it right. I mean, you, you, you can't, you can't optimize for every single use case. Right. But you can give great granularity to allow those use cases to be supported. And that seems to be sort of the balancing act that you guys so >>Well, absolutely. It's focused on being a general purpose file system. That's going to work for a broad cross section of, of applications and workloads. >>Right. Right. And that's, that's what customers want. You know, generally speaking, you go after that, that metal Dunkin, I'll give you the last word. >>I just encourage people to come and try out EFS it's as simple as a single click in our console to create a file system and get started. So come give it a, try the >>Button Duncan. Thanks so much for coming back to the cube. It's great to see you again. Thanks, Dave. All right. And keep it right there for more great content from AWS storage day from Seattle.

from the cube studios in palo alto in boston bringing you data-driven insights from the cube and etr this is breaking analysis with dave vellante aws is pointing the way to a revolution in system architecture much in the same way that aws defined the cloud operating model last decade we believe it is once again leading in future systems design the secret sauce underpinning these innovations is specialized designs that break the stranglehold of inefficient and bloated centralized processing and allows aws to accommodate a diversity of workloads that span cloud data center as well as the near and far edge hello and welcome to this week's wikibon cube insights powered by etr in this breaking analysis we'll dig into the moves that aws has been making which we believe define the future of computing we'll also project what this means for customers partners and aws many competitors now let's take a look at aws's architectural journey the is revolution it started by giving easy access as we all know to virtual machines that could be deployed and decommissioned on demand amazon at the time used a highly customized version of zen that allowed multiple vms to run on one physical machine the hypervisor functions were controlled by x86 now according to werner vogels as much as 30 of the processing was wasted meaning it was supporting hypervisor functions and managing other parts of the system including the storage and networking these overheads led to aws developing custom asics that help to accelerate workloads now in 2013 aws began shipping custom chips and partnered with amd to announce ec2 c3 instances but as the as the aws cloud started to scale they really weren't satisfied with the performance gains that they were getting and they were hitting architectural barriers that prompted aws to start a partnership with anaperta labs this was back in 2014 and they launched then ec2 c4 instances in 2015. the asic in c4 optimized offload functions for storage and networking but still relied on intel xeon as the control point aws aws shelled out a reported 350 million dollars to acquire annapurna in 2015 which is a meager sum to acquire the secret sauce of its future system design this acquisition led to a modern version of project nitro in 2017 nitro nitro offload cards were first introduced in 2013 at this time aws introduced c5 instances and replaced zen with kvm and more tightly coupled the hypervisor with the asic vogels shared last year that this milestone offloaded the remaining components including the control plane the rest of the i o and enabled nearly a hundred percent of the processing to support customer workloads it also enabled a bare metal version of the compute that spawned the partnership the famous partnership with vmware to launch vmware cloud on aws then in 2018 aws took the next step and introduced graviton its custom designed arm-based chip this broke the dependency on x86 and launched a new era of architecture which now supports a wide variety of configurations to support data intensive workloads now these moves preceded other aws innovations including new chips optimized for machine learning and training and inferencing and all kinds of ai the bottom line is aws has architected an approach that offloaded the work currently done by the central processing unit in most general purpose workloads like in the data center it has set the stage in our view for the future allowing shared memory memory disaggregation and independent resources that can be configured to support workloads from the cloud all the way to the edge and nitro is the key to this architecture and to summarize aws nitro think of it as a set of custom hardware and software that runs on an arm-based platform from annapurna aws has moved the hypervisor the network the storage virtualization to dedicated hardware that frees up the cpu to run more efficiently this in our opinion is where the entire industry is headed so let's take a look at that this chart pulls data from the etr data set and lays out key players competing for the future of cloud data center and the edge now we've superimposed nvidia up top and intel they don't show up directly in the etr survey but they clearly are platform players in the mix we covered nvidia extensively in previous breaking analysis and won't go too deep there today but the data shows net scores on the vertical axis that's a measure of spending velocity and then it shows market share in the horizontal axis which is a measure of pervasiveness within the etr data set we're not going to dwell on the relative positions here rather let's comment on the players and start with aws we've laid out aws how they got here and we believe they are setting the direction for the future of the industry and aws is really pushing migration to its arm-based platforms pat morehead at the 6-5 summit spoke to dave brown who heads ec2 at aws and he talked extensively about migrating from x86 to aws's arm-based graviton 2. and he announced a new developer challenge to accelerate that migration to arm instances graviton instances and the end game for customers is a 40 better price performance so a customer running 100 server instances can do the same work with 60 servers now there's some work involved but for the by the customers to actually get there but the payoff if they can get 40 improvement in price performance is quite large imagine this aws currently offers 400 different ec2 instances last year as we reported sorry last year as we reported earlier this year nearly 50 percent of the new ec2 instances so nearly 50 percent of the new ec2 instances shipped in 2020 were arm based and aws is working hard to accelerate this pace it's very clear now let's talk about intel i'll just say it intel is finally responding in earnest and basically it's taking a page out of arm's playbook we're going to dig into that a bit today in 2015 intel paid 16.7 billion dollars for altera a maker of fpgas now also at the 6.5 summit nevin shenoy of intel presented details of what intel is calling an ipu it's infrastructure processing unit this is a departure from intel norms where everything is controlled by a central processing unit ipu's are essentially smart knicks as our dpus so don't get caught up in all the acronym soup as we've reported it's all about offloading work and disaggregating memory and evolving socs system-on-chip and sops system on package but just let this sink in a bit a bit for a moment intel's moves this past week it seems to us anyway are designed to create a platform that is nitro like and the basis of that platform is a 16.7 billion dollar acquisition just compare that to aws's 350 million dollar tuck-in of annapurna that is incredible now chenoy said in his presentation rough quote we've already deployed ipu's using fpgas in a in very high volume at microsoft azure and we've recently announced partnerships with baidu jd cloud and vmware so let's look at vmware vmware is the other you know really big platform player in this race in 2020 vmware announced project monterrey you might recall that it's based on the aforementioned fpgas from intel so vmware is in the mix and it chose to work with intel most likely for a variety of reasons one of the obvious ones is all the software that's running on on on vmware it's been built for x86 and there's a huge install base there the other is pat was heading vmware at the time and and you know when project monterey was conceived so i'll let you connect the dots if you like regardless vmware has a nitro like offering in our view its optionality however is limited by intel but at least it's in the game and appears to be ahead of the competition in this space aws notwithstanding because aws is clearly in the lead now what about microsoft and google suffice it to say that we strongly believe that despite the comments that intel made about shipping fpgas and volume to microsoft that both microsoft and google as well as alibaba will follow aws's lead and develop an arm-based platform like nitro we think they have to in order to keep pace with aws now what about the rest of the data center pack well dell has vmware so despite the split we don't expect any real changes there dell is going to leverage whatever vmware does and do it better than anyone else cisco is interesting in that it just revamped its ucs but we don't see any evidence that it has a nitro like plans in its roadmap same with hpe now both of these companies have history and capabilities around silicon cisco designs its own chips today for carrier class use cases and and hpe as we've reported probably has some remnants of the machine hanging around but both companies are very likely in our view to follow vmware's lead and go with an intel based design what about ibm well we really don't know we think the best thing ibm could do would be to move the ibm cloud of course to an arm-based nitro-like platform we think even the mainframe should move to arm as well i mean it's just too expensive to build a specialized mainframe cpu these days now oracle they're interesting if we were running oracle we would build an arm-based nitro-like database cloud where oracle the database runs cheaper faster and consumes less energy than any other platform that would would dare to run oracle and we'd go one step further and we would optimize for competitive databases in the oracle cloud so we would make oci run the table on all databases and be essentially the database cloud but you know back to sort of fpgas we're not overly excited about about the market amd is acquiring xi links for 35 billion dollars so i guess that's something to get excited about i guess but at least amd is using its inflated stock price to do the deal but we honestly we think that the arm ecosystem will will obliterate the fpga market by making it simpler and faster to move to soc with far better performance flexibility integration and mobility so again we're not too sanguine about intel's acquisition of altera and the moves that amd is making in in the long term now let's take a deeper look at intel's vision of the data center of the future here's a chart that intel showed depicting its vision of the future of the data center what you see is the ipu's which are intelligent nixed and they're embedded in the four blocks shown and they're communicating across a fabric now you have general purpose compute in the upper left and machine intelligent on the bottom left machine intelligence apps and up in the top right you see storage services and then the bottom right variation of alternative processors and this is intel's view of how to share resources and go from a world where everything is controlled by a central processing unit to a more independent set of resources that can work in parallel now gelsinger has talked about all the cool tech that this will allow intel to incorporate including pci and gen 5 and cxl memory interfaces and or cxl memory which are interfaces that enable memory sharing and disaggregation and 5g and 6g connectivity and so forth so that's intel's view of the future of the data center let's look at arm's vision of the future and compare them now there are definite similarities as you can see especially on the right hand side of this chart you've got the blocks of different process processor types these of course are programmable and you notice the high bandwidth memory the hbm3 plus the ddrs on the two sides kind of bookending the blocks that's shared across the entire system and it's connected by pcie gen 5 cxl or ccix multi-die socket so you know you may be looking to say okay two sets of block diagrams big deal well while there are similarities around disaggregation and i guess implied shared memory in the intel diagram and of course the use of advanced standards there are also some notable differences in particular arm is really already at the soc level whereas intel is talking about fpgas neoverse arms architecture is shipping in test mode and we'll have end market product by year end 2022 intel is talking about maybe 2024 we think that's aspirational or 2025 at best arm's road map is much more clear now intel said it will release more details in october so we'll pay attention then maybe we'll recalibrate at that point but it's clear to us that arm is way further along now the other major difference is volume intel is coming at this from a high data center perspective and you know presumably plans to push down market or out to the edge arm is coming at this from the edge low cost low power superior price performance arm is winning at the edge and based on the data that we shared earlier from aws it's clearly gaining ground in the enterprise history strongly suggests that the volume approach will win not only at the low end but eventually at the high end so we want to wrap by looking at what this means for customers and the partner ecosystem the first point we'd like to make is follow the consumer apps this capability the capabilities that we see in consumer apps like image processing and natural language processing and facial recognition and voice translation these inference capabilities that are going on today in mobile will find their way into the enterprise ecosystem ninety percent of the cost associated with machine learning in the cloud is around inference in the future most ai in the enterprise and most certainly at the edge will be inference it's not today because it's too expensive this is why aws is building custom chips for inferencing to drive costs down so it can increase adoption now the second point is we think that customers should start experimenting and see what you can do with arm-based platforms moore's law is accelerating at least the outcome of moore's law the doubling of performance every of the 18 to 24 months it's it's actually much higher than that now when you add up all the different components in these alternative processors just take a look at apple's a5 a15 chip and arm is in the lead in terms of performance price performance cost and energy consumption by moving some workloads onto graviton for example you'll see what types of cost savings you can drive for which applications and possibly generate new applications that you can deliver to your business put a couple engineers in the task and see what they can do in two or three weeks you might be surprised or you might say hey it's too early for us but you'll find out and you may strike gold we would suggest that you talk to your hybrid cloud provider as well and find out if they have a nitro we shared that vmware they've got a clear path as does dell because they're you know vmware cousins what about your other strategic suppliers what's their roadmap what's the time frame to move from where they are today to something that resembles nitro do they even think about that how do they think about that do they think it's important to get there so if if so or if not how are they thinking about reducing your costs and supporting your new workloads at scale now for isvs these consumer capabilities that we discussed earlier all these mobile and and automated systems and cars and and things like that biometrics another example they're going to find their way into your software and your competitors are porting to arm they're embedding these consumer-like capabilities into their apps are you we would strongly recommend that you take a look at that talk to your cloud suppliers and see what they can do to help you innovate run faster and cut costs okay that's it for now thanks to my collaborator david floyer who's been on this topic since early last decade thanks to the community for your comments and insights and hey thanks to patrick morehead and daniel newman for some timely interviews from your event nice job fellas remember i published each week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com these episodes are all available as podcasts just search for breaking analysis podcasts you can always connect with me on twitter at d vallante or email me at david.velante at siliconangle.com i appreciate the comments on linkedin and clubhouse so follow us if you see us in a room jump in and let's riff on these topics and don't forget to check out etr.plus for all the survey data this is dave vellante for the cube insights powered by etr be well and we'll see you next time

(calm music)- Hello, and welcome to this CUBE conversation here in Palo Alto, California in theCUBE Studios, I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. We are here with the hot startup really working on some real, super important security technology for the cloud, great company, Orca Security, Avi Shua, CEO, and co founder. Avi, thank you for coming on theCUBE and share your story >> Thanks for having me. >> So one of the biggest problems that enterprises and large scale, people who are going to the cloud and are in the cloud and are evolving with cloud native, have realized that the pace of change and the scale is a benefit to the organizations for the security teams, and getting that security equation, right, is always challenging, and it's changing. You guys have a solution for that, I really want to hear what you guys are doing. I like what you're talking about. I like what you're thinking about, and you have some potentially new technologies. Let's get into it. So before we get started, talk about what is Orca Security, what do you guys do? What problem do you solve? >> So what we invented in Orca, is a unique technology called site scanning, that essentially enables us to connect to any cloud environment in a way which is as simple as installing a smartphone application and getting a full stack visibility of your security posture, meaning seeing all of the risk, whether it's vulnerability, misconfiguration, lateral movement risk, work that already been compromised, and more and more, literally in minutes without deploying any agent, without running any network scanners, literally with no change. And while it sounds to many of us like it can't happen, it's snake oil, it's simply because we are so used to on premise environment where it simply wasn't possible in physical server, but it is possible in the cloud. >> Yeah, and you know, we've had many (indistinct) on theCUBE over the years. One (indistinct) told us that, and this is a direct quote, I'll find the clip and share it on Twitter, but he said, "The cloud is more secure than on premise, because it's more changes going on." And I asked him, "Okay, how'd you do?" He says, "It's hard, you got to stay on top of it." A lot of people go to the cloud, and they see some security benefits with the scale. But there are gaps. You guys are building something that solves those gaps, those blind spots, because of things are always changing, you're adding more services, sometimes you're integrating, you now have containers that could have, for instance, you know, malware on it, gets introduced into a cluster, all kinds of things can go on in a cloud environment, that was fine yesterday, you could have a production cluster that's infected. So you have all of these new things. How do you figure out the gaps and the blind spots? That's what you guys do, I believe, what are the gaps in cloud security? Share with us. >> So definitely, you're completely correct. You know, I totally agree the cloud can be dramatically more secluded on-prem. At the end of the day, unlike an on-prem data center, where someone can can plug a new firewall, plug a new switch, change things. And if you don't instrument, it won't see what's inside. This is not possible in the cloud. In the cloud it's all code. It's all running on one infrastructure that can be used for the instrumentation. On the other hand, the cloud enabled businesses to act dramatically faster, by say dramatically, we're talking about order of magnitude faster, you can create new networks in matter of minutes, workloads can come and go within seconds. And this creates a lot of changes that simply haven't happened before. And it involves a lot of challenges, also from security instrumentation point of view. And you cannot use the same methodologies that you used for the on-prem because if you use them, you're going to lose, they were a compromise, that worked for certain physics, certain set of constraints that no longer apply. And our thesis is that essentially, you need to use the capabilities of the cloud itself, for the instrumentation of everything that can runs on the cloud. And when you do that, by definition, you have full coverage, because if it's run on the cloud, it can be instrumented on cloud, this essentially what Docker does. And you're able to have this full visibility for all of the risks and the importance because all of them, essentially filter workload, which we're able to analyze. >> What are some of the blind spots in the public cloud, for instance. I mean, that you guys are seeing that you guys point out or see with the software and the services that you guys have. >> So the most common ones are the things that we have seen in the last decades. I don't think they are materially different simply on steroids. We see things, services that are launched, nobody maintained for years, using things like improper segmentation, that everyone have permission to access everything. And therefore if one environment is breached, everything is breached. We see organization where something goes dramatically hardened. So people find a way to a very common thing is that, and now ever talks about CIM and the tightening their permission and making sure that every workload have only the capabilities that they need. But sometimes developers are a bit lazy. So they'll walk by that, but also have keys that are stored that can bypass the entire mechanism that, again, everyone can do everything on any environment. So at the end of the day, I think that the most common thing is the standard aging issues, making sure that your environment is patched, it's finger tightened, there is no alternative ways to go to the environment, at scale, because the end of the day, they are destined for security professional, you need to secure everything that they can just need to find one thing that was missed. >> And you guys provide that visibility into the cloud. So to identify those. >> Exactly. I think one of the top reasons that we implemented Orca using (indistinct) technology that I've invented, is essentially because it guarantees coverage. For the first time, we can guarantee you that if you scan it, that way, we'll see every instance, every workload, every container, because of its running, is a native workload, whether it's a Kubernetes, whether it's a service function, we see it all because we don't rely on any (indistinct) integration, we don't rely on friction within the organization. So many times in my career, I've been in discussion with customer that has been breached. And when we get to the core of the issue, it was, you couldn't, you haven't installed that agent, you haven't configured that firewall, the IPS was not up to date. So the protections weren't applied. So this is technically true, but it doesn't solve the customer problem, which is, I need the security to be applied to all of my environment, and I can't rely on people to do manual processes, because they will fail. >> Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's you can't get everything now and the velocity, the volume of activity. So let me just get this right, you guys are scanning container. So the risk I hear a lot is, you know, with Kubernetes, in containers is, a fully secure cluster could have a container come in with malware, and penetrate. And even if it's air gapped, it's still there. So problematic, you would scan that? Is that how it would work? >> So yes, but so for nothing but we are not scanning only containers, the essence of Orca is scanning the cloud environment holistically. We scan your cloud configuration, we scan your Kubernetes configuration, we scan your Dockers, the containers that run on top of them, we scan the images that are installed and we scan the permission that these images are one, and most importantly, we combined these data points. So it's not like you buy one solution that look to AWS configuration, is different solution that locate your virtual machines at one cluster, another one that looks at your cluster configuration. Another one that look at a web server and one that look at identity. And then you have resolved from five different tools that each one of them claims that this is the most important issue. But in fact, you need to infuse the data and understand yourself what is the most important items or they're correlated. We do it in an holistic way. And at the end of the day, security is more about thinking case graphs is vectors, rather than list. So it is to tell you something like this is a container, which is vulnerable, it has permission to access your sensitive data, it's running on a pod that is indirectly connected to the internet to this load balancer, which is exposed. So this is an attack vector that can be utilized, which is just a tool that to say you have a vulnerable containers, but you might have hundreds, where 99% of them are not exposed. >> Got it, so it's really more logical, common sense vectoring versus the old way, which was based on perimeter based control points, right? So is that what I get? is that right is that you're looking at it like okay, a whole new view of it. Not necessarily old way. Is that right? >> Yes, it is right, we are looking at as one problem that is entered in one tool that have one unified data model. And on top of that, one scanning technology that can provide all the necessary data. We are not a tool that say install vulnerability scanner, install identity access management tools and infuse all of the data to Orca will make sense, and if you haven't installed the tools to you, it's not our problem. We are scanning your environment, all of your containers, virtual machine serverless function, cloud configuration using guard technology. When standard risk we put them in a graph and essentially what is the attack vectors that matter for you? >> The sounds like a very promising value proposition. if I've workloads, production workloads, certainly in the cloud and someone comes to me and says you could have essentially a holistic view of your security posture at any given point in that state of operations. I'm going to look at it. So I'm compelled by it. Now tell me how it works. Is there overhead involved? What's the cost to, (indistinct) Australian dollars, but you can (indistinct) share the price to would be great. But like, I'm more thinking of me as a customer. What do I have to do? What operational things, what set up? What's my cost operationally, and is there overhead to performance? >> You won't believe me, but it's almost zero. Deploying Orca is literally three clicks, you just go log into the application, you give it the permission to read only permission to the environment. And it does the rest, it doesn't run a single awkward in the environment, it doesn't send a single packet. It doesn't create any overhead we have within our public customer list companies with a very critical workloads, which are time sensitive, I can quote some names companies like Databricks, Robinhood, Unity, SiteSense, Lemonade, and many others that have critical workloads that have deployed it for all of the environment in a very quick manner with zero interruption to the business continuity. And then focusing on that, because at the end of the day, in large organization, friction is the number one thing that kills security. You want to deploy your security tool, you need to talk with the team, the team says, okay, we need to check it doesn't affect the environment, let's schedule it in six months, in six months is something more urgent then times flybys and think of security team in a large enterprise that needs to coordinate with 500 teams, and make sure it's deployed, it can't work, Because we can guarantee, we do it because we leverage the native cloud capabilities, there will be zero impact. This allows to have the coverage and find these really weak spot nobody's been looking at. >> Yeah, I mean, this having the technology you have is also good, but the security teams are burning out. And this is brings up the cultural issue we were talking before we came on camera around the cultural impact of the security assessment kind of roles and responsibilities inside companies. Could you share your thoughts on this because this is a real dynamic, the people involved as a people process technology, the classic, you know, things that are impacted with digital transformation. But really the cultural impact of how developers push code, the business drivers, how the security teams get involved. And sometimes it's about the security teams are not under the CIO or under these different groups, all kinds of impacts to how the security team behaves in context to how code gets shipped. What's your vision and view on the cultural impact of security in the cloud. >> So, in fact, many times when people say that the cloud is not secure, I say that the culture that came with the cloud, sometimes drive us to non secure processes, or less secure processes. If you think about that, only a decade ago, if an organization could deliver a new service in a year, it would be an amazing achievement, from design to deliver. Now, if an organization cannot ship it, within weeks, it's considered a failure. And this is natural, something that was enabled by the cloud and by the technologies that came with the cloud. But it also created a situation where security teams that used to be some kind of a checkpoint in the way are no longer in that position. They're in one end responsible to audit and make sure that things are acting as they should. But on the other end, things happen without involvement. And this is a very, very tough place to be, nobody wants to be the one that tells the business you can't move as fast as you want. Because the business want to move fast. So this is essentially the friction that exists whether can we move fast? And how can we move fast without breaking things, and without breaking critical security requirements. So I believe that security is always about a triode, of educate, there's nothing better than educate about putting the guardrails to make sure that people cannot make mistakes, but also verify an audit because there will be failures in even if you educate, even if you put guardrails, things won't work as needed. And essentially, our position within this, triode is to audit, to verify to empower the security teams to see exactly what's happening, and this is an enabler for a discussion. Because if you see what are the risks, the fact that you have, you know, you have this environment that hasn't been patched for a decade with the password one to six, it's a different case, then I need you to look at this environment because I'm concerned that I haven't reviewed it in a year. >> That's exactly a great comment. You mentioned friction kills innovation earlier. This is one friction point that mismatch off cadence between ownership of process, business owners goals of shipping fast, security teams wanting to be secure. And developers just want to write code faster too. So productivity, burnout, innovation all are a factor in cloud security. What can a company do to get involved? You mentioned easy to deploy. How do I work with Orca? You guys are just, is it a freemium? What is the business model? How do I engage with you if I'm interested in deploying? >> So one thing that I really love about the way that we work is that you don't need to trust a single word I said, you can get a free trial of Orca at website orca.security, one a scan on your cloud environment, and see for yourself, whether there are critical ways that were overlooked, whether everything is said and there is no need for a tool or whether they some areas that are neglected and can be acted at any given moment (indistinct) been breached. We are not a freemium but we offer free trials. And I'm also a big believer in simplicity and pricing, we just price by the average number workload that you have, you don't need to read a long formula to understand the pricing. >> Reducing friction, it's a very ethos sounds like you guys have a good vision on making things easy and frictionless and sets that what we want. So maybe I should ask you a question. So I want to get your thoughts because a lot of conversations in the industry around shifting left. And that's certainly makes a lot of sense. Which controls insecurity do you want to shift left and which ones you want to shift right? >> So let me put it at, I've been in this industry for more than two decades. And like any industry every one's involved, there is a trend and of something which is super valuable. But some people believe that this is the only thing that you need to do. And if you know Gartner Hype Cycle, at the beginning, every technology is (indistinct) of that. And we believe that this can do everything and then it reaches (indistinct) productivity of the area of the value that it provides. Now, I believe that shifting left is similar to that, of course, you want to shift left as much as possible, you want things to be secure as they go out of the production line. This doesn't mean that you don't need to audit what's actually warning, because everything you know, I can quote, Amazon CTO, Werner Vogels about everything that can take will break, everything fails all the time. You need to assume that everything will fail all the time, including all of the controls that you baked in. So you need to bake as much as possible early on, and audit what's actually happening in your environment to find the gaps, because this is the responsibility of security teams. Now, just checking everything after the fact, of course, it's a bad idea. But only investing in shifting left and education have no controls of what's actually happening is a bad idea as well. >> A lot of people, first of all, great call out there. I totally agree, shift left as much as possible, but also get the infrastructure and your foundational data strategies, right and when you're watching and auditing. I have to ask you the next question on the context of the data, right, because you could audit all day long, all night long. But you're going to have a pile of needles looking for haystack of needles, as they say, and you got to have context. And you got to understand when things can be jumped on. You can have alert fatigue, for instance, you don't know what to look at, you can have too much data. So how do you manage the difference between making the developers productive in the shift left more with the shift right auditing? What's the context and (indistinct)? How do you guys talk about that? Because I can imagine, yeah, it makes sense. But I want to get the right alert at the right time when it matters the most. >> We look at risk as a combination of three things. Risk is not only how pickable the lock is. If I'll come to your office and will tell you that you have security issue, is that they cleaning, (indistinct) that lock can be easily picked. You'll laugh at me, technically, it might be the most pickable lock in your environment. But you don't care because the exposure is limited, you need to get to the office, and there's nothing valuable inside. So I believe that we always need to take, to look at risk as the exposure, who can reach that lock, how easily pickable this lock is, and what's inside, is at your critical plan tools, is it keys that can open another lock that includes this plan tools or just nothing. And when you take this into context, and the one wonderful thing about the cloud, is that for the first time in the history of computing, the data that is necessary to understand the exposure and the impact is in the same place where you can understand also the risk of the locks. You can make a very concise decision of easily (indistinct) that makes sense. That is a critical attack vector, that is a (indistinct) critical vulnerability that is exposed, it is an exposed service and the service have keys that can download all of my data, or maybe it's an internal service, but the port is blocked, and it just have a default web server behind it. And when you take that, you can literally quantize 0.1% of the alert, even less than that, that can be actually exploited versus device that might have the same severity scores or sound is critical, but don't have a risk in terms of exposure or business impact. >> So this is why context matters. I want to just connect what you said earlier and see if I get this right. What you just said about the lock being picked, what's behind the door can be more keys. I mean, they're all there and the thieves know, (indistinct) bad guys know exactly what these vectors are. And they're attacking them. But the context is critical. But now that's what you were getting at before by saying there's no friction or overhead, because the old way was, you know, send probes out there, send people out in the network, send packers to go look at things which actually will clutter the traffic up or, you know, look for patterns, that's reliant on footsteps or whatever metaphor you want to use. You don't do that, because you just wire up the map. And then you put context to things that have weights, I'm imagining graph technologies involved or machine learning. Is that right? Am I getting that kind of conceptually, right, that you guys are laying it out holistically and saying, that's a lock that can be picked, but no one really cares. So no one's going to pick and if they do, there's no consequence, therefore move on and focus energy. Is that kind of getting it right? Can you correct me where I got that off or wrong? >> So you got it completely right. On one end, we do the agentless deep assessment to understand your workloads, your virtual machine or container, your apps and service that exists with them. And using the site scanning technology that some people you know, call the MRI for the cloud. And we build the map to understand what are connected to the security groups, the load balancer, the keys that they hold, what these keys open, and we use this graph to essentially understand the risk. Now we have a graph that includes risk and exposure and trust. And we use this graph to prioritize detect vectors that matters to you. So you might have thousands upon thousands of vulnerabilities on servers that are simply internal and these cannot be manifested, that will be (indistinct) and 0.1% of them, that can be exploited indirectly to a load balancer, and we'll be able to highlight these one. And this is the way to solve alert fatigue. We've been in large organizations that use other tools that they had million critical alerts, using the tools before Orca. We ran our scanner, we found 30. And you can manage 30 alerts if you're a large organization, no one can manage a million alerts. >> Well, I got to say, I love the value proposition. I think you're bringing a smart view of this. I see you have the experience there, Avi and team, congratulations, and it makes sense of the cloud is a benefit, it can be leveraged. And I think security being rethought this way, is smart. And I think it's being validated. Now, I did check the news, you guys have raised significant traction as valuation certainly raised around the funding of (indistinct) 10 million, I believe, a (indistinct) Funding over a billion dollar valuation, pushes a unicorn status. I'm sure that's a reflection of your customer interaction. Could you share customer success that you're having? What's the adoption look like? What are some of the things customers are saying? Why do they like your product? Why is this happening? I mean, I can connect the dots myself, but I want to hear what your customers think. >> So definitely, we're seeing huge traction. We grew by thousands of percent year over year, literally where times during late last year, where our sales team, literally you had to wait two or three weeks till you managed to speak to a seller to work with Orca. And we see the reasons as organization have the same problems that we were in, and that we are focusing. They have cloud environments, they don't know their security posture, they need to own it. And they need to own it now in a way which guarantees coverage guarantees that they'll see the important items and there was no other solution that could do that before Orca. And this is the fact. We literally reduce deployment (indistinct) it takes months to minutes. And this makes it something that can happen rather than being on the roadmap and waiting for the next guy to come and do that. So this is what we hear from our customers and the basic value proposition for Orca haven't changed. We're providing literally Cloud security that actually works that is providing full coverage, comprehensive and contextual, in a seamless manner. >> So talk about the benefits to customers, I'll give you an example. Let's just say theCUBE, we have our own cloud. It's growing like crazy. And we have a DevOps team, very small team, and we start working with big companies, they all want to know what our security posture is. I have to go hire a bunch of security people, do I just work with Orca, because that's the more the trend is integration. I just was talking to another CEO of a hot startup and the platform engineering conversations about people are integrating in the cloud and across clouds and on premises. So integration is all about posture, as well, too I want to know, people want to know who they're working with. How does that, does that factor into anything? Because I think, that's a table stakes for companies to have almost a posture report, almost like an MRI you said, or a clean (indistinct) health. >> So definitely, we are both providing the prioritized risk assessment. So let's say that your cloud team want to check their security, the cloud security risk, they'll will connect Orca, they'll see the (indistinct) in a very, very clear way, what's been compromised (indistinct) zero, what's in an imminent compromise meaning the attacker can utilize today. And you probably want to fix it as soon as possible and things that are hazardous in terms that they are very risky, but there is no clear attack vectors that can utilize them today, there might be things that combining other changes will become imminent compromise. But on top of that, when standard people also have compliance requirements, people are subject to a regulation like PCI CCPA (indistinct) and others. So we also show the results in the lens of these compliance frameworks. So you can essentially export a report showing, okay, we were scanned by Orca, and we comply with all of these requirements of SOC 2, etc. And this is another value proposition of essentially not only showing it in a risk lens, but also from the compliance lens. >> You got to be always on with security and cloud. Avi, great conversation. Thank you for sharing nice knowledge and going deep on some of the solution and appreciate your conversation. Thanks for coming on. >> Thanks for having me. >> Obviously, you are CEO and co founder of Orca Security, hot startup, taking on security in the cloud and getting it right. I'm John Furrier with theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (calm music)

>> Narrator: From theCUBE Studios in Palo Alto in Boston, connecting with thought leaders all around the world, this is theCUBE Conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to this special CUBE virtual coverage of AWS Summit 2020 Online. This is the 80th summit that has now moved from a physical event to a digital event, a virtual event, it's all online. Of course theCUBE, normally at the summits, are virtual as well. We have an all day program of CUBE coverage here from our Palo Alto studios with our quarantine crew. Great team, who's been sheltering in place for the past two and a half months as well as our team in Boston with Dave Vellante and Stu Miniman. theCUBE is virtual because we have to be and we are going to be continuing doing more coverage and we're going to continue to do that with all the other big events in the enterprise and emerging tech business. Stu and Dave are going to join me. >> Hey John, good to see you, thank you. >> Stu, we're going to do a segment later on more a breakdown in some of the news and highlights. We got Matt Garman coming on, who's the new vice president of sales and marketing. He ran EC2. He now reports to Andy Jassy he's run the field. We got Sanjay Poonen, the chief operating officer at VMware. Coming on as well. And then we got a customer there. We've got a slew of great guests, Swami, Dave Brown, who now runs EC2. The GM of Analytics. Stu, are you going to do a segment with Corey Quinn? Which should be fun. And Dave, of course, you can do a breaking analysis at the end of the day. And we've got a lot of other great content on theCUBE.net. Check it out. Guys let's just jump into it. AWS is really feeling all the pressure as all these cloud guys are. Everyone's working at home. The cloud is on the front stage of the world in terms of delivering capacity, compute everything else. And now they're got to run a digital event. So pretty crazy times. What you guys think?. Dave what's your thoughts? Stu. >> Do you want me to jump in there? >> Yeah. >> So really impressive watching Werner Vogels. First of all last year I saw him up on stage at the New York City summit. Of course, we've seen him on stage at re:Invent many times. But well produced really looks good. You know, challenging to have that keynote feel when you're sitting at home. But they did a nice job of editing. They put him up on it on a big white space here. But what Werner talked about is the scale of cloud. This is what they've been building for. You never know when you're going to have a Cyber Monday. And I just need to be able to scale. He talked about examples like Netflix more than doubling. How many minutes they're doing and walking through all the ways that Amazon is stepping up. You know something we've been looking at close, Dave has been digging into the analysis here. You know, public cloud is being put under the spotlight right now can they react? And Amazon, to their credit is doing a really good job have not been hearing any challenges. They're not leaving their customers behind. They're having lots of people coming and wanting more. They don't want to get people, yeah. >> I want to dig into that a little bit later on, in terms of uptime and high availability. The table stakes right now in this new virtualized world of living and working at home, competing with life is. What services stay up the most? Which ones are failing? Are the staffing levels there? Are they dealing with the remote workforce? All these things are going to impact the cloud. But ultimately, what we're talking about now is who's really leading this? Dave, you know you and I have been riffing on this around who really has the market share lead and what the numbers are. Clearly, Amazon is winning. The numbers all point that way. And some people even have Microsoft ahead of Amazon, don't know how they get there. But bottom line, Microsoft is catching up. But what is the real lead? What's the market share numbers look like? What are you finding in the research that we're doing? >> Well as you know John, we've been tracking this for a while now. And all three companies, the big three, Amazon, Google and Microsoft just reported it well. We actually have some data on this. Guys, if you can maybe share that with our audience. But we saw this last quarter. The reason why, John, that people some maybe people have Microsoft ahead is because they bundle a lot of the stuff into their intelligent cloud and includes GitHub, Azure stack, hybrid, private cloud services and. Oh, yeah, by the way, Azure. But nonetheless, they give us some clues as to what Azure looked like. So this is our estimate of infrastructure as a service and platform as a service. Both Google and Microsoft sort of hide the ball a little bit on the pure play. Amazon very cleanly provides that guidance. And so you can see here, I guess the key points are like you said, Azure and GCP are growing faster than Amazon. Amazon is much bigger. I would say though, if you go back to 2018, Amazon was well over 2x Azure. 2019 it was just kind of around 2x, you're seeing that now with the trailing twelve months. And this last quarter dipping a little bit below. So you are seeing Azure close that gap. But as I say, the numbers are fuzzy. So you have to do your best to squint through them. I look, I read 10ks till my eyes bleed. So you don't have to. >> Stu, what are you talking hearing in terms of uptime Azure had some fails, Google had some fails. But you starting to see the cloud starting to differentiate. See Google doing much more vertical focus. They're obviously going after retail. It's an easy one. Microsoft with Office 365. Doing well on the enterprise. The numbers are there. What's your thoughts on the reliability and uptime? >> Yes so, John first of all Amazon I'm not hearing any reports of issues there. As you noted, where are Microsoft and Google going after Amazon? Where they can. So retail is an obvious one. The ecosystem how well can they partner with companies? Because the fear of many companies is if I partner with Amazon, are they going to come after my business? So when I looked at the online events, John, I got a sneak peek last night of where the Asia-Pacific region. I kind of logged in as if I was from Australia or New Zealand. >> John: I did that too. >> You know, they have regional partner things set up. So, once again, Amazon, a huge global presence, doing a really good job there. And as Dave showed in the numbers while Azure and Google have much higher growth rates, if you just look at raw numbers, Amazon just adding another Google cloud like every quarter to their revenue. So it is still Amazon in the clear lead out in front. >> You know, I think it's important to point out that these clouds have different capabilities. You know, Microsoft put out a blog just very recently saying that it was going to prioritize some of the essential businesses some of the health care workers and several others that were, quote unquote, essentials. So if you're one of those essential business, they were going to sort of allocate capacity toward you. So they're clearly having some scaling issues and they're somewhat using the COVID-19 pandemic as a bit of a heat shield there. Or by the way, they're prioritizing teams as well for the work from home. So it's caveat emptor there, as I said in my breaking analysis, I mean unless you're one of those sort of priority customers and maybe even if you are, you might want to sort of be careful as to what you're actually running in Azure. At the same time you know, clearly Microsoft's doing well. It's got a lot of spending momentum for its platform. And so that's undeniable. A lot of workloads are kind of good enough. >> Yeah and I think just to put a quick plug, if you're watching this segment now, Dave will do a breaking analysis at three o'clock on our stream here. And of course, it'll be on demand on theCUBE.net as well as YouTube. Guys, I want to get your thoughts on some of the hot spots here. Usually around this time, Amazon comes out and shows a lot of GA, general availability. A lot of stuff they announce that reinvents. So, Kendra is going general availability as well as some other services. But one of the things that was interesting to me, I'll get your thoughts on it, because I held the processor in my hand. Jassi tweeted about yesterday, the new arm, EC2 M6G, which is their graviton two processor. It's like super small. This has really been the competitive Edge for Amazon's performance. The stuff that they're doing now is they're lowering the cost and increasing the performance. That's their Amazon law. That's what they do. So, you got the processor, you got analytics. You start to see these GAs. Can you squint through some of the announcements and try to get a feel for where this is going? How's this machine learning? If I'm an enterprise, I got to make some tough calls right now because I've got to double down on the products that are working that are going to get me through the pandemic. And on a growth trajectory and I've got to get rid of the people in the projects or redeploy them quickly. This is going to impact, positioning and ultimately revenues. >> I mean, I think if you look at the Edge specifically and you think about Arm, I think what Amazon's got right is they're not just throwing traditional data center boxes over the fence to the Edge and say, "Okay, here you go, data center in a box." What they're doing is they're sort of rethinking it and then realizing that you're going to have real time workloads running at the Edge, processing very, you have to be very efficient and very inexpensive. So that's where Arm fits. And I think you're going to have to be able to do the processing at the Edge. Much of the data, if not most of that data, is going to stay at the Edge. And it's not a traditional processing architecture. New architectures are going to emerge. David Florrick calls these things matrix workloads. He's written a lot about it. It's just a whole new way of thinking about computing architectures. And really the Edge is going to be driving that. >> Stu, I want to get your opinion on something. And Dave, you can weigh in too, that'd b great. You know, I was watching a little bit of the Down Under APACS stuff yesterday, Stu as well. And I saw Ben Capps, one of our friends, CUBE alumni and co-host, helps the Saudis live in New Zealand. He brought a couple of interesting things I want to get your thoughts on this. It's more of a community angle. Andy Jass, he's been with Amazon for 23 years. Ben mentioned the cloud rod he's still going back. You know, thinking about cloud was 2008 around that timeframe was only a small cast of characters talking about what was going on. And finally, he mentioned the point about Jass's keynote a Fireside Chat. He mentioned, "One way door decisions versus "two door decisions. "The former cannot be undone hence need to be thought over." So you start to see Jass. Twenty three years of experience, you get the cloud arod kind of ecosystem influencers that are out there that we all know. We've been covering this for that long of time. And you've got this notion of the two way door. You started to connect the dots here and what's going on. You start to see a maturation of AWS. But not only that, the community, the truth is out there and it's interesting to see how this plays out in terms of how they talk about the information as we're all on virtual online. Who are the experts? Who are the YouTubers trying to get a flash in the pan? What's the real story? The data, the misinformation is flying around. There's a ton of that going on, I want to see more of it with virtual. But you've got to experience set in the table with Amazon and the community, your thoughts? >> Yes, so John, absolutely it's about you need to have optionality. We know that things change really fast. 2020 key example of having to react to things that I weren't prepared for. Dave was just talking about Edge computing. What I need to succeed an Edge is very different from how I was attacking clouds before. So is Amazon a walled garden? Everything goes in, Hotel California that it was active for years? Or are they going to be flexible? You know, you see Google and Microsoft really trying to attack Amazon here. Many of us that are proponents of open source have attacked Microsoft, have attacked Amazon for years. They've hired some really good people for Adrian Cockcroft couple years ago, Peder Ulander more recently. They've even hired some people from Red Hat and the Linux Foundation. So getting involved in open source and they've been leading some of the efforts when you talked about Edge. But emerging technologies like Serverless and Edge computing. Is it the Amazon way or everything else? Or will they play in an open ecosystem? Will they allow things to be more flexible? You know, we we've talked for a bunch of years. They really softened on their hybrid stance in 2020. Will Amazon soften on their multi cloud stance, especially if you start burrowing in where Edge fits in this environment? It can't be a one way ladder to everything for public cloud. We know it needs to be a diverse environment. And therefore, you know that net community and ecosystem, you know, wants to play with Amazon but also wants a mature and competitive marketplace. We've all seen what happens when there's a monopoly or duopoly out there. It's not good for innovation. It's not good for the customers long term. >> Dave the reality of the marketplace is changing. Customers are going to be virtualize in their world, literally, physically and digitally. How the work's going to get done is to mention open source ones, probably see a revolution of new applications Cambrian explosion of new kinds of capabilities, new demands, new expectations. There's going to be favor here for the people with the steep learning curve who have those has that trajectory as Amazons, as you know, there's no compression algorithm for experience. This is a real kind of nuance point. It's kind of exposed for the next year. Who's got the juice in the marketplace? Your thoughts? >> Well, Werner Vogels today talked about he said, "There's a shift, a fundamental shift going on, "a sort of early COVID-19. "It's not just about the technology, "but it's about how we access applications, "how we build applications." And Amazon is clearly making some bets and betting on data. We know that. And they are also betting on video because they know that's where a lot of the data comes from. When you talk about who's got experience, I mean, clearly Amazon is seeing a huge demand for video services and we're seeing a giant disruption in content distribution networks. And Amazon, I think, is at the heart of that. So, I mean, it's you know, it's interesting to see him doubling down on that, talking about the whole workflow. So I think in terms of experience, obviously at Amazon, they're going to, that's one of their clear sweet spots. But there are obviously other. >> You know, I've heard the term reinvent many times in the past couple of months, especially during the COVID crisis. And it wasn't in context to the Amazon show. There's a real reinvention going on in the marketplace, in enterprises, in small, medium sized enterprises to every business they have to rethink and reinvent what they're doing to get a growth trajectory. And traditionally, we look at these crisis of 2008. Companies that came out on the upswing became a real master master class, examples of growth and a lot of people who weren't prepared, flatline or dropped off. So we are in this point. Even theCUBE we're are digital, we're virtual. We're rethinking it. We're open to new ideas. There's going to be an experimentation phase at the same time, how do you leverage what's out there? This is going to be an opportunity for the cloud, guys. How do you guys react to all that? >> Well, the last downturn was good for cloud, and still you we've talked about how this one certainly is shaping up to be a tailwind as well for cloud. Cloud is doing better than others. I think Gartner put out a stat today they've seen like a 5x increase in inquiries around cloud. Not surprising companies that previously wouldn't even think about cloud now they really have no choice. >> Guys, we've got to cut it there, we've got to go to Cocky. We had all day with theCUBE. CUBE Virtual AWS Summit Online. Check out they got a big portal. It's complicated. Is a lot of a lot of education going on there. It's the classic Emison Summit. We've got great interviews. Guys we've got a great interview coming up next with Matt Garman, who's the new senior vice president or vice president of sales and marketing. He runs all the field, public sector, both of those areas under massive growth opportunities. So, we're going to hear from him. Thanks for coming on, guys. Really appreciate it. Good to celebrate as well in Boston.. And thanks for the insight. So, we'll be right back with more CUBE coverage after the short break. And Matt Garman up next. (upbeat music)

>> live from New York. It's the Q covering AWS Global Summit 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Hi and welcome to New York City, The Big Apple. I'm stupid and my co host for today is Cory Quinn, and this is eight of us. Summit New York City. It is one of the regional events that they have, but these regional events are actually tend to be bigger and more exciting than >> many companies. You know, big events not say that companies don't do good shows, but if you look, we've got 11,500 people in attendance over 120 seconds over 125. Sponsoring partners here in the ecosystem just had Werner Vogels up on stage. A number of the customers such a fin ra and Gordon, who we will have on the program on good energy, a local show it is free to attend Cory. Before >> we get into the technology, though, there's a little bit of a protest going on. Here is actually the second Amazon show in a row that this was was that Amazon re Mars, where a protester talking about I believe it was >> something around about chickens in Whole Foods. Basically, she got really close to the richest man in the world. But the protest here, it's outside, it's going and it's about ice and border control was actually a very well organized protest. Security had to take many of them out for the first least half hour of the of the keynote. Warner stopped a few times and said, Look, I'll be happy to talk to you after, >> but please let me finish. I thought he handled it, respectively. But what? What was your take? >> Very much so. And it's, I think it's an issue with There aren't too many people you'd want associate with on the other side of it, Kids in Cages is not something anyone sensible wants to endorse. The challenge that I continually have, I think, is that it's easy to have these conversations. Now is not the time. Okay, great. Typically, it's difficult to get big companies to say, and now is the time for us to address this and anything outside of very carefully worded statements. So I empathize. I really do. I mean, as a speaker myself, it's terrifying to me the idea that I could go up and have to have that level of conversation and a suddenly interrupted by people yelling at me. It's gotta be nerve wracking. Speaking to 10,000 people on its own is not easy, and having to carry that forward with something that effectively comes down to a morality question is it's gotta be tough. I have sympathy for people going through this on work on Amazon, and it's I don't know that there's a great answer right now. >> So, Cory, I know you know You are not >> deep in the government space, but you were at the public sector show there and there's always this discussion as you know Well, you're supplying the technology. While Amazon might not be providing, you know, bummers and, you know, guns. They are providing the technology underneath. Facial recognition causes a lot of concern, you know, rightfully so that make sure we understand this thing. Security products in the light. So, you know, when you have the Department of Defense and Border Control as your clients, they do open themselves up for some criticism, >> right? At some point, you have to wonder who you do business with versus who don't do business with and the historical approach. Well, as long as there are sanctions or laws preventing us from doing business with someone, we'll be open to all comers. I some level I find that incredibly compelling. In practice, the world is messy. If things were that black and white, we wouldn't have these social media content, moderation issues. It would be a very different story with a very different narrative. >> Yeah, definitely. Amazon as a whole has a platform, and they have relationships. You know, Jeff Bezos has met with, you know, the highest levels of power in this country. They've got Jay Carney. The foot was part of the Obama administration helping with policy. So absolutely with great to see Amazon, you know, take a strong statement and you know, for good is something that we're hugely a part of and therefore way want to see all the suppliers you know, having a dialogue and helping to move this >> for you. And I think the lesson that we take from it, too, is that there are multiple ways to agitate for change and protest. One is to disrupt the keynote, and I understand that it gets attention and it's valuable. But you could do that, or you can have a seat at the table and start lobbying for change, either internally or with stakeholders. But you need to it. There's a bunch of different paths to get there, and I think that I don't blame anyone who's protesting today, and I don't blame anyone who chose not to. >> All right, So let's let's let's talk now about some of the content. So, Cory lutely, you know that there there's in the Amazon ecosystem. Every day we wake up and there were multiple new announcements. A matter of fact. We're always saying, Oh my gosh, how do I keep up with all of the things happening there? Well, one of the ways we keep up with it is reading last week in a VWs, which is your newsletter. I'll do the shameless plug, you know, for much. Appreciate your telling my story, Cory, But Amazon Cloudwatch Container Insight, Amazon event bridge. You know, new developer kids fluent bid, you know, talking about the momentum of the company security databases on you know, the general adoption overall, you know, quick take for me as I love to hear you know, Werner up there talking about applications. It's not purely Oh, everything's going to live in the cloud and it'll be sun shines in unicorns and rainbows. But we understand that there's challenges here, your data and how we manage that requires, you know, >> a broad ecosystem that was the event bridge is something I would >> definitely want a drilling on because from a serverless environment, not just one thing, it's lots of different things. And how do we play between all of them? But since you do sort through and sift through all of these announcements, give us a date. It was there anything new here? Did you already know all of this because it's in your R S s feed Newsletters are you know what did grab you? >> Surprisingly, it turns out, in the weeks with you have, obviously reinvent is just a firehose torrent that no human being can wind up consuming. And you see a few releases in Santa Clara and a few in New York. But I thought I knew most of things that were coming out, and I did. I missed one that I just noticed. About two minutes we went on the air called cloudwatch anomaly detection the idea is that it uses machine learning. So someone check that off the business card of the bingo card. And at that point, you take all the cloudwatch logs and start running machine learning and look for anomalies discrepancies. In the rest it uses machine learning. But rather than go figure out what it's for, it's applied to a very specific problem and those of the A. I am l products. I like the best where it's we're solving a problem with your data for you. But riding guard rails as opposed to step one, hire $2,000,000 worth of data. Scientists Step two. We're still working on that. >> All right, so court cloudwatch actually e saw the event bridge that I mentioned, which is that event ecosystem around Lambda uh, Deepak, who we're going to have on the program that said that it was the learnings from cloudwatch that helped them to build. This may be for audience. Just give us cloudwatch. There's a lot of different products under that. Give us what you hear from your customers. You know where cloudwatch fits and, you >> know, let's start at the beginning For those who are fortune enough never to have used it. Cloudwatch is AWS is internal monitoring solution. It gathers metrics, it gathers logs, it presents them in different ways. And it has interesting bill impacts as a cloud economist. I see it an awful lot where every time you the monitoring company, walk around the Expo hall, you'll trip over 40 of those. They're all gathering their data on the infrastructure from Bob Watch and interpreting that. Now you're paying for the monitoring company and you're paying for the FBI charges against it. And I was sort of frozen in amber, more or less for a good five years or so. I wrote a bit of a hit piece late last year and had some fascinating conversations afterwards, and it hasn't aged well, they're really coming to the fore with a lot of enhancements that are valuable on it. The problem is, there's a tremendous amount of data. How do you get a signal from it? How do you look at actionable things? If you're running 10,000 instances, you're not looking at individual metrics for individualism. You care about aggregates, but you also care about observe ability. You care about drilling down into things Bernard talked about X rays distributed tracing framework today, and I think we're rapidly seeing across the board that it all ties back to events. Watch events is what's driving a lot of things like >> Event Bridge >> and the idea of an event centric architecture is really what we're trying to see Software's evolving into. >> Yeah, it's one of those things, you know, when you >> talk, you know that server list term out, their events are at the center of them. And how do I get some standardization across the industry? There's some open source groups that are trying to insert themselves and give some flexibility here. You know, when I want understand from Vin, Fridge says, Okay, it's Lambda and their ecosystem. But is this going to be a lame the only ecosystem or, well, this lay the ground work so that, yes, there are other clouds out there. You know what azure has other environment? Will this eventually be able to extend beyond this, or is this a Amazon proprietary system? Do you have any insight there? >> It's a great question. I would argue that I guess one of the taking a step back for a second. It would have to be almost irrelevant in some cases. When you start looking at server this lock in, it's not the fact that who there's this magic system only in one provider that will take my crappy code and run it for me. It's tied into the entire event ecosystem. It's tied into a bunch of primitives that do not translate very well. Now, inherently by looking What event bridge is in the fact that anyone who wants to be integrated into their applications, you absolutely could wind up with a deep native integration coming from another large, hyper scale pop provider? The only question is, will >> you great, great point. I know when I've talked to some of the surveillance ecosystem, it's that skills on understanding, you know, each environment because today, doing A W S versus doing azure, there's still a lot of difference, is there? Sure I could learn >> it, But yeah, and one of the things that I think is fascinating to is we've seen a couple attempts of this before from other start ups that are doing very similar things in open stores or trying to do something themselves. But one of the things that change this tremendously here is that this is a double us doing, that it doesn't matter what they do, what ridiculous name they give it when they want something. World generally tends to sit up and notice, just by sheer virtue of its scale and the fact that it's already built out. And you don't have to build the infrastructure yourself to run these things. If anything has a chance to start driving a cohesive standard around this, it's something coming from someone like Amazon. >> Yeah, absolutely. All right, Cory, you know, database is always a hot topic. Latest stat from Werner is, I believe it was 150,000 databases migrated. You called and >> said, Hey, why's amazon dot com on there? Jeff Faris like, Well, they have a choice. And of course, Amazon would point out they were using >> a traditional database for a long time and now have >> completely unplug the last in a >> long time. But they finally got off of a database that was produced by a law firm, and I understand the reasons behind that. But I was talking with people afterwards. Amazon does have a choice. Do they use, and if AWS wants to win them over to use their service is they have to sell them just like any other customer. And that's why it's on that slide as a customer. Now, if you're not in the ecosystem like some of us are, it looks a little disjointed of weight. C successfully sold yourself and put yourself on the slide. Well, okay, >> yes, it was actually so so the biggest thing I learned at the Amazon remarks show when >> you talk about all the fulfillment centers in the robotics and machine, learning almost everything underneath there it's got eight of us. Service is underneath it, So absolutely, it is one company. But yes, Amazon is the biggest customer of AWS. But that doesn't mean that there isn't somewhere, you know. You know, I still haven't gotten the word if they're absolutely 100% on that WS because we expect that there's some 400 sitting in the back ground running >> one of those financial service things. Maybe they finally micro did that one >> that's rather building in AWS 400. >> All right, Cory, what else you know either from the key note or from your general observations about Amazon that you want to share? >> I want to say that it's very clear that Amazon is getting an awful lot of practice at putting these events on and just tracking it here. Two year, Not just the venue. Logistics, which Okay, great. Get a bunch of people in a conference room, have a conversation. Do Aquino throw him out the end. But the way they're pacing the chinos, the way they're doing narratives, the customer stories that are getting up on stage are a lot less challenging. But then they were in years past. Where people get on stage, they seem more comfortable. It's very clear that a number of Amazon exacts not just here but another. Summits have been paying serious attention to how to speak publicly to 10,000 people once it's its own unique skill. >> Yeah, and you gotta like that, You know that. You know, the two first customers that they put on which will have on financial service is, of course, a big presence here in New York City. Gord Ash has their headquarters, you know, just a few blocks uptown from good, deep stories. Isn't you know, there there's that mixed that they did a good job. I thought of kind of cloud 10 >> one because still many customers are very early on that journey. We're not all cloud native, you know, run by the developers and everything there. But, you know, good looks of technology and the new pieces for those people that have been in a while, but still, you know, welcoming and embracing for how to get started >> and the stories we're moving up the stack to. It's not. >> We had a bunch of the >> EMS, and we put them in a different place. Okay, which is great news. Everyone starts there. But now the stories are moving into running serious regulated workloads with higher level of service is And that's great, because it's also not the far extreme Twitter for pets. We built this toy project last week when someone else fell through. And now we have to give this talk. It's very clearly something large enterprises. >> Yeah. So, Corey, last thing I want to ask you is you remember in the early days, you know, that public cloud? Oh, it was It was cheap and easy to use today. They have 200 instance types up there. You know, What does that mean for customers? You know you are a cloud economist. So need your official opinion diagnosis. >> I think it reduces the question, too, before you buy a bunch of reserve businesses. Are you on the right instance? Types. And the answer is almost certainly not just based on statistics alone. So now it's a constant state of indecision. It's rooted in an epic game of battleship between two Amazon S. V. V S. And I really hope one of the winds already so we can stop getting additional instance dives every couple of months. But so far no luck. >> So in your your your perfect world, you know what the announcement reinvented, fixes the problem. >> That's a really good question. I think that fundamentally, I don't I don't And I don't think I have any customers who care what type of incidents they're running on. They want certain resource levels. They want certain performance characteristics. But whatever you call that does not matter to them and having to commit to, though what you picked for 1 to 3 years, that's a problem. You don't have to. You can go on demand, but you're leaving 30% of the day. >> Yeah, and I love that point is actually taken notes fin rot. I want to talk to them because they say they've been three major re architectures in four years. So therefore, how did they make sure that they get the latest price performance but still get, you know, good, good economics on the outdated >> regulatory authority? I just assume they get there with audit threats when it comes time >> for renegotiating. >> All right. You're Cory Quinn. I am stupid. I mean, we have a full day here of water wall coverage from eight of US. Summit, New York City. Thank you so much for watching.

>> live from New York. It's the Q covering AWS Global Summit 2019. Brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> Hi and welcome to New York City, The Big Apple. I'm stupid and my co host for today is Cory Quinn, and this is eight of us. Summit New York City. It is one of the regional events that they have, but these regional events are actually tend to be bigger and more exciting than many companies. You know, big events not, you know, say that companies don't do good shows, but if you look, we've got 11,500 people in attendance over 120 seconds over 125. Sponsoring partners here in the ecosystem just had Werner Vogels up on stage. A number of the customers such a fin ra and Gordon, who we will have on the program on good energy, a local show it is free to attend Cory. Before we get into the technology, though, there's a little bit of a protest going on. Here is actually the second Amazon show in a row. That this was was an Amazon re Mars, where a protester talking about I believe it was something around about chickens in Whole Foods. Basically, she got really close to the richest man in the world. But the protest here, it's outside, it's going and it's about ice and border control was actually a very well organized protest. Security had to take many of them out for the first least half hour of the of the keynote. Warner stopped a few times and said, Look, I'll be happy to talk to you after, but please let me finish. I thought he handled it, respectively. But what was your take? >> Very much so. And it's, I think it's an issue with There aren't too many people you'd want to associate with. On the other side of it, kids in Cages is not something anyone sensible wants to endorse. The challenge that I continually have, I think, is that it's easy to have these conversations. Now is not the time. Okay, great. Typically, it's difficult to get big companies to say, and now is the time for us to address this in anything outside of very carefully worded statements. So I empathize. I really do. I mean, as a speaker myself, it's terrifying to me the idea that I could >> go up and >> have to have that level of conversation and a suddenly interrupted by people yelling at me. It's gotta be nerve wracking. Speaking to 10,000 people on its own is not easy, and having to carry that forward with something that effectively comes down to a morality question is it's gotta be tough. I have sympathy for people going through this on work on Amazon, and it's I don't know that there's a great answer right now. >> So, Cory, I know you know You are not deep in the government space, but you were at the public sector show there and there's always this discussion as you know Well, you're supplying the technology. While Amazon might not be providing, you know, bummers and, you know, guns. They are providing the technology underneath. Facial recognition causes a lot of concern. You rightfully so that make sure we understand this thing security products and the like. So you know, when you have the Department of Defense and Border Control as your clients, they do open themselves up >> for some criticism, right? At some point you have to wonder who you do business with versus who don't do business with and the historical approach. Well, as long as there are sanctions or laws preventing us from doing business with someone, we'll be open to all comers. I some level I find that incredibly compelling. In practice, the world is messy. If things were that black and white, he wouldn't have the social media content, moderation issues. It would be a very different story with a very different narrative. >> Yeah, definitely. Amazon as a whole has a platform, and they have relationships. You know, Jeff Bezos has met with, you know, the highest levels of power in this country. They've got a carny. The foot was part of the Obama administration helping with policy. So absolutely with great to see Amazon, you know, take a strong puff statement and you know, for good is something that we're hugely a part of and therefore way want to see all the suppliers you know, having a dialogue and helping to move this >> for you. I think the lesson that we take from it, too, is that there are multiple ways to agitate for change and protest. One is to disrupt the keynote, and I understand that it gets attention and it's valuable But you could do that, or you can have a seat at the table and start lobbying for change, either internally or with stakeholders. But you need to it. There's a bunch of different paths to get there, and I think that I don't blame anyone who's protesting today, and I don't blame anyone who chose not to. >> All right, So let's let's let's talk now about some of the content. So Cory lutely, you know, there there's in the Amazon ecosystem. Every day we wake up and there were multiple new announcements. A matter of fact. We're always saying, Oh my gosh, how do I keep up with all of the things happening there? Well, one of the ways we keep up with it is reading last week in a VWs, which is your newsletter. I'll do the shameless plug, you know, for a much appreciated by telling my story. Cory. But Amazon Cloudwatch Container Insight, Amazon Event Bridge. You know, new developer kids fluent bit, you know, talking about the momentum of the company security databases on you know, the general adoption overall, you know, quick take for me as I love to hear you know, Werner up there talking about applications. It's not purely Oh, everything's going to live in the cloud and it'll be sun shines and unicorns and rainbows. But we understand that there's challenges here, your data and how we manage that requires, you know, a broad ecosystem that was the event bridge is something I would definitely want drilling on because from a serverless environment, not just one thing, it's lots of different things. And how do we play between all of them? But since you do sort through and sift through all of these announcements, give us a date. It was there anything new here? Did you already know all of this because it's in your R S s feed newsletters? What did grab you? >> Surprisingly, it turns out, in the weeks with you have, obviously reinvent is just a firehose torrent that no human being can wind up consuming. And you see a few releases in Santa Clara and a few in New York. But I thought I knew most of things that were coming out, and I did. I missed one that I just noticed. About two minutes we went on the air called cloudwatch anomaly detection. The idea is that it uses machine learning. So someone check that off the business card of the bingo card. And at that point, you take all the cloudwatch logs and start running machine learning and look for anomalies discrepancies. In the rest it uses machine learning. But rather than go figure out what it's for, it's applied to a very specific problem and those of the A. I am l products. I like the best where it's we're solving a problem with your data for you. But riding guard rails as opposed to step one, hire $2,000,000 worth of data. Scientists Step two. We're still working on that. >> All right, so court cloudwatch Actually, you saw the event bridge that I mentioned, which is that event ecosystem around Lambda uh, Deepak, who we're going to have on the program that said that it was the learnings from cloudwatch that helped them to build. This may be for audience. Just give us cloudwatch. There's a lot of different products under that. Give us what you hear from your customers. You know, we're cloudwatch fits and, you >> know, let's start at the beginning for those who are fortune enough never to have used it. Cloudwatch is AWS is internal monitoring solution. It gathers metrics. It gathers logs, it presents them in different ways. And it has interesting bill impacts as a cloud economist. I see it an awful lot where every time you, the monitoring company, walk around the Expo Hall, you'll trip over 40 of those. They're all gathering their data on the infrastructure from Bob Watch and interpreting that. Now you're paying for the monitoring company and you're paying for the FBI charges against it. And it was sort of frozen in amber, more or less for a good five years or so. I wrote a bit of a hit piece late last year and had some fascinating conversations afterwards, and it hasn't aged well, they're really coming to the floor with a lot of enhancements that are valuable on it. The problem is, there's a tremendous amount of data. How do you get signal from it? How do you look at actionable things? If you're running 10,000 instances, you're not looking at individual metrics or individualist. You care about aggregates, but you also care about observe ability. You care about drilling down into things. Burner talked about X Rays distributed tracing framework today, and I think we're rapidly seeing across the board that it all ties back to events. Cloudwatch events is what's driving a lot of things like Event Bridge and the idea of a defense centric architecture is really what we're trying to see Software's evolving into. >> Yeah, it's one of those things, you know, when you talk, you know that server lis term out, their events are at the center of them. And how do I get some standardization across the industry? There's open source groups that are trying to insert themselves and give some flexibility here. You know, when I want understand from Ben, Fridge says, Okay, it's Lambda and their ecosystem. But is this going to be a lame the only ecosystem? Or will this lay the ground work so that, yes, there are other clouds out there? You know what azure has other environment? Will this eventually be able to extend beyond this for? Is this a Amazon proprietary system? You have any insight there? >> It's a great question. I would argue that I guess one of the taking a step back for a second. It would have to be almost irrelevant In some cases when you start looking at server this lock in, it's not the fact that who there's this magic system only in one provider that will take my crappy code and run it for me. It's tied into the entire event ecosystem. It's tied into a bunch of primitives that do not translate very well. Now, inherently by looking. What event bridge is in the fact that anyone who wants to be integrated into their applications, you absolutely could wind up with a deep native integration coming from another large, hyper scale pop provider? The only question is, will >> you great, great point. I know when I've talked to some of the server lis ecosystem. It's that skills on understanding, you know, each environment because today, doing A W S versus doing azure, there's still a lot of differences there. Sure, I could learn it, but >> yeah, and one of the things that I think is fascinating to is we've seen a couple attempts of this before from other start ups that are doing very similar things in open stores or trying to do something themselves. But one of the things that change this tremendously here is it this is AWS doing that? It doesn't matter what they do, what ridiculous name they give it when they want something. World generally tends to sit up and notice, just by sheer virtue of its scale and the fact that it's already built out. And you don't have to build the infrastructure, help to run these things. If anything has a chance to start driving a cohesive standard around this, it's something coming from someone like Amazon. >> Yeah, absolutely. All right, Cory, you know, database is always a hot topic. Latest stat from Warner is I believe it was 150,000 databases migrated. You know, you called and said, Hey, why is amazon dot com on there? Jeff Faris like, Well, they have a choice. And of course, Amazon would point out they were using a traditional database for a long time and now have completely unplug the last in a >> long time. But they finally got off of a database that was produced by a law firm, and I understand the reasons behind that. But I was talking with people afterwards. Amazon does have a choice. Do they use, And if AWS wants to win them over to use their service is they have to sell them just like any other customer. And that's why it's on that slide as a customer. Now, if you're not in the ecosystem like some of us are, it looks a little disjointed of weight. So successfully sold yourself and put yourself on the slide. Okay, >> Yes, it was actually. So so. The biggest thing I learned at the Amazon remarks show when you talk about all the fulfillment centers in the robotics in machine, learning almost everything underneath there it's got eight of us. Service is underneath it. So absolutely, it is one company. But yes, Amazon is the biggest customer of AWS. But that doesn't mean that there isn't somewhere, you know. You know, I still haven't gotten the word if they're absolutely 100% on that, because we expect that there's some 400 sitting in the back ground running one of those financial service things. Maybe they finally micro did that one >> that's building in AWS 400. >> All right, Cory, what else you know either from the key note or from your general observations about Amazon that you want to share, >> I I want to say that it's very clear that Amazon is getting an awful lot of practice at putting these events on and just tracking a year to year, not just the venue. Logistics, which, Okay, great. Get a bunch of people in a conference room, have a conversation. Do Aquino throw him out the end. But the way they're pacing the Gino's, the way they're doing narratives. The customer stories that are getting up on stage are a lot less challenging. But then they were in years past. Where people get on stage, they seem more comfortable. It's very clear that a number of Amazon exacts not just here but another. Summits have been paying serious attention to how to speak publicly to 10,000 people at once. It's its own unique skill. >> Yeah, and you gotta like that, You know that. You know, the two first customers that they put on which will have on financial service is, of course, a big presence here in New York City. Gord Ash has their headquarters, you know, just a few blocks uptown from good, deep stories. Isn't you know, there there's that mixed that they did a good job. I thought of kind of cloud 101 because still many customers are very early on that journey. We're not all cloud native, you know, run by the developers and everything there. But, you know, good looks of technology and the new pieces for those people that have been in a while, But still, you know, welcoming and embracing offer how to get started >> and the stories we're moving up the stack to. It's not >> We had a bunch of B. >> M s and we put them in a different place. >> Hey, >> which is great news. Everyone starts there. But now the stories are moving into running serious regulated workloads with higher level of service is And that's great because it's also not the far extreme Twitter for pets. We built this toy project last week when someone else fell through. And now we have to give this talk. It's very clearly something large enterprises. >> Yeah. So, Corey, last thing I want to ask you is you remember in the early days, you know that public cloud? Oh, it was It was cheap and easy to use today. They have 200 instance types up there, you know? What does that mean for customers. You know you are a cloud economist. So need your official opinion diagnosis. >> I think it reduces the question, too, before you buy a bunch of reserve businesses. Are you on the right instance? Types. And the answer is almost certainly not just based on statistics alone. So now it's a state of indecision. It's rooted in an epic game of battleship between two Amazon s VVS, and I really hope one of the winds already so we can stop getting additional instance dives every couple of months. But so far no luck. >> So in your your your perfect world, you know what the announcement reinvented, fixes the problem. >> That's a really good question. I think that fundamentally, I don't I don't And I don't think I have any customers who care what type of incidents they're running on. They want certain resource levels. They want certain performance characteristics. But whatever you call that does not matter to them and having to commit to, though what you picked for 1 to 3 years, that's a problem. You don't have to. You can go on demand, but you're leaving 30% of the day. >> Yeah, and I love that point is actually taken. Notes fin rot. I want to talk to them because they say they've done three major re architectures in four years. So therefore, how did they make sure that they get the latest price performance but still get you no good? Good economics on the outdated >> regulatory authority? I just assume they get there with audit threats when it comes time for >> renegotiating. All right. You're Cory Quinn. I am stupid. I mean, we have a full day here of world Wall coverage from eight of US. Summit, New York City. Thank you so much for watching.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE covering AWS re:Invent 2018 brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel and, their Ecosystem Partners. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. Day three, we're live in Las Vegas for AWS re:Invent 2018. It's our sixth year covering Amazon re:Invent and AWS, Amazon Web Services meteoric rise in value, profitability, market share, just a rising tide floating all boats. I'm here with Dave Vellante. We're kicking off day three analyzing, you know, Vernon's keynote. Things start to wind down. Yesterday was kind of the big day with Andy Jassy. Dave, after yesterday it's pretty clear that there's a couple big mega trends that people are talking about. One AWS Outpost, okay, that is going to be a one year conversation about what that means, what implications. I mean basically if you're a Cloud-native company you order a data center and Amazon Prime will deliver it in two days, why would anyone want to buy hardware again from HPE or other companies? This is a huge risk, huge challenge, a huge shot across the bow to the industry because this essentially the thing. This is essentially Cloud in a box. Put it in, plug it in, we'll service, turn it on and it works and developers can just do their thing, that's amazing. So I think that's going to be a very hotly-contested topic throughout, at least one year until they ship that and all the posturing and jockeying's going to go on there. And then the other thing that was interesting was there was a lot of coolness, the F1, Racing car with analytics. You had Lockheed Martin with space satellite provisioning, that was pretty cool. And, you know, you got robots and IoT. That's cool, you got space, you got robots, you got, you know, sports cars all using analytics, all using AI, all using large-scale compute storage and networking, very elastic, all with all kinds of new tools and reference engines, but Jerry Chen laid it out from Greylock yesterday around the strategy. Amazon drives the cost down on the infrastructure side and bring the API concept up to AI and bring the marketplace together. So, a lot of action. Today we're going to see the impact and the fallout of that. What's your thoughts? >> Well, first of all John, there's so much to talk about. I want to say, so Werner Vogels this morning gave the keynote. When, when I first joined, you know this industry, we, IBM was everything, IBM was the dominant player. So we used to pour over IBM system and technology guides, and IBM white papers, because they set the technical standard for the industry and they shared that knowledge obviously with their customers to inspire them to buy more stuff, but they were giving back to the community as well to help people understand architectures and core computer science. Listening to Werner Vogels today, Amazon is now the beacon of technology in the industry. He went through the worse day of his life, which was December 12, 2004 when their Oracle Database went down for 12 hours because of a bug in the code and because they were pushing it beyond its limits. And so he described how they solved that problem over a multi-year effort and really got heavy into the technology of database, and recovery, and it was actually quite fascinating. But my takeaway was Amazon is now the company that is setting the technical direction of the industry for the next wave of Cloud-based applications. So that was actually really fascinating. We heard similar things on S3 and S3 recovery, even though they're still using some Oracle stuff it was really, really fascinating to see and very, very impressive. So that's one. As you say, there's so much to talk about. The IoT pieces, John, I really like what Amazon is doing with IoT. They're coming at it from a bottoms up approach, what do I mean by that? Do you remember when mobile first came out Microsoft basically said, hey we're going to put Windows on a phone, top down. We're going to take our existing IT Desktop standards, we're going to push 'em down to mobile, didn't work. And I see a lot of IT companies trying to do that with IoT today, not Amazon. Amazon's saying, look we're going to go bottoms up and serve the operation's technology people with a software development platform that's secure, that allows it, that's fully managed and allows them to build applications for IoT. I think it's the right approach. >> I think the other thing that's coming out is a Tweet here from Bobby Allen who we know from theCUBE days. I, you know, when we, I shared a Tweet about, you know, the future of the converged infrastructure on the outpost he says, software should be where tech companies differentiation value lies. This is back to our beating of the drum about software, software, software, you know. Andy Bechtolsheim, the Rembrandt of motherboards, Pat Gelsinger calls him, said, he's the founder of Arista, hardware's easy, software's hard. Software's where the action is. What Amazon's doing is essentially pushing large-scale platform capabilities and trying to make that as cheap and affordable as possible, the range of services, while creating a new shim layer around API concepts and microservices up the stack to enable people to write software faster, more compelling, more meaningful, and to iterate, and this is resonating with customers, Dave, because if I'm a business I got to write software, okay. I don't want to be in the running data center business because the data center powers the business. So the end doesn't justify the means in that regard. You say, hey, I need a data center to power my top-line revenue which is either going to be software-based or some sort of Edge network scenario, or even a human interface wearable or whatever. Software is the key. So if Amazon can continue to push the cost structure the lock-in spec is locked in because the better value so if it's going to be 80% less cost, and you call that a lock-in spec? A lot of lock-in spec, it's not like a technical lock-in spec, that's just called value. >> I'm locked in to Google Search. I mean, you know, I don't know what to tell ya. I'm not going to use any alternative search I'm just familiar with it, I like it, it's better. >> But software's the key, your thoughts. >> Okay, so, my thoughts on lock-in are, lock-in is one of the most overstated concepts in the business. I'm not saying that lock-in doesn't happen, it does happen, it happens everywhere. It happens across open-source. You do open-source you're locked-in to your developers. I've done research on this John and my research shows that 15% of the buyers really make primary decisions based on whether or not they're going to be locked-in. 85% look at the business value and they trade that off against lock-in so, you know, yeah, buyer beware, blah, blah, blah, but I think it's just really overstated. Yes, it's a Cloud, mother of all lock-ins, but what's the value that you get out of it? Speaking about another lock-in. I want to talk about Intel a little bit because the press has been like chirping about, about Intel and alternative processors, and the arm-based stuff that Amazon is doing. >> Well hold on, let's just set the table on this conversation. Intel announced a series of proprietary processors, their own silicon, you know the-- >> Amazon you mean. >> I mean Amazon, yeah, proprietary processors that are specific to certain workloads, inference engines, and other things around network-- >> Based on the Annapurna acquisition of 2015, a small Israeli-based company that they acquired. >> Yeah, so the press, I've been sharing on, oh, chips must be confronting Intel, your thoughts. >> Yeah, so here's the deal. Look it, Intel is massive and they do a huge amount of business with the Cloud players. Now, here's the thing about Intel, it's really, I've observed Intel for decades. Intel wants a level playing field amongst its customer base and so it wants a lot of different Cloud suppliers even though there's three, four, five, you know, worldwide, there's, there's many dozens, and hundreds of Cloud players out there. Intel wants to support them all. They're an arms dealer, right? They love all their customers and so, so what they do is they sprinkle around the innovation in the industry, they try to open up their architecture such that people can, you know, write software to their architecture and they try to support all their customers. We see it at all the shows. You see it at Lenovo, you see it at Dell, you see it here at AWS, you see at Google, Intel is everywhere and they are by far the biggest supplier. Now, Amazon, of course, has to have alternatives, right? They care about data-center power, you know, they do buy some stuff AMD, why not, why wouldn't you second-source some of this stuff? They do a lot of work with Invidia, ARM has its place, and so, but it's a rounding error in the grand scheme in the market. Now why people get excited is they say, okay, ARM now has a foot in the door, oh, Intel's in trouble. Intel obviously still a dominant player. I think it's, you know-- >> Is Intel in trouble? >> The press likes to glom onto that. Intel's like the dominant player in the microprocessor business and it has to move, and it has to move fast. I would not say Intel is in trouble, I'd say it continues to be the dominant player in the data center. It's got opportunities for alternative processors like Invidia. Intel strategy is to put as much function on the DI as possible and to grab that function, it's always the way it's behaved. You see people like Invidia trying to create opportunities, and doing a very good job of it, and so, there's white space there. It's competition, we love competition, right? >> Here's my, here's my. >> Intel needs some competition frankly. >> Here's my take. One, Intel pays, Amazon pays Intel a lot of money. >> Huge amount of money. >> So it's not like Intel's hurting, Intel's not in trouble. Here's why Intel's not in trouble. One, the Cloud service provider business that Raejeanne runs, she was on theCube yesterday, is growing significantly. A new total adjustable market, they call TAM expansion, is happening. >> So, you know, if you're looking at microprocessors it's not a one, or few, suppliers, it's a total TAM expansion and of course with that expansion of the market Intel's going to take a big chunk of the shares, so they are not in trouble, Amazon pays them a lot of money, they're a big-time supplier to AWS, check. Two, Intel is on a cadence on processor design that spans years. And Raejeanne and other Intel executives have spoken to us off the record, and here on theCUBE that hey, you know, sometimes there's use cases where they're not responding fast enough that are outside they're operating cycles, but as Raejeanne said, Amazon makes them get better, okay? So, they have to manage that, but there's no way Intel's in trouble. I think the press are using this as, to create link bait, for news that is sensational. But, yeah, I mean, on the surface you go, oh, chip, Intel, oh that's Intel's business, it must be bad for Intel. So, yeah, Amazon made their own processor. They got some specific things they want to build specialized processors for like GP Alternative, or inference engines that are tied to the stack, why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they? >> What Intel will do, what Intel will do is they'll learn from that and they'll respond with functionality for maybe others, or maybe they'll earn Amazon's business, we'll see, but yield to your point, you know, Intel's exposure to the desktop and the laptop, a lot of people wrote about that, that Intel is, the (mumbles) entry is Intel's business, they're so huge, the cost of doing what they do, Intel's such a strategic supplier to so many companies and as we talked to Raejeanne about yesterday the Cloud has completely changed that dynamic and actually brought more suppliers. The data center consolidation that you've seen has been offset by the Cloud explosions, that's a good trend for Intel. And of course the mobile dynamic, you know more about that then I do, but, everybody said mobile's going to kill Intel, it obviously didn't happen. >> Look it, Intel, Intel's smart, they've been around, they're going to not miss the ball. They got a big team that services a lot of these big players. >> Are they still paranoid in your opinion? >> I think they are. >> I do too. >> I do too, I mean I, look it, Intel is, have a cadence of Moore's law. They have a execution style that's somewhat similar to AWS, they've very strict about how they execute and they have a great execution engine. So I would bet the farm that Intel's talking to Amazon and saying, what do you need for us to be better? And if Amazon does what they do best, which is tell them what they need, Intel will deliver. So I'm kind of not worried about Intel on that front. I think in the short term maybe this processor doesn't fit for that, but, that's why GPUs became popular, floating point was a unique thing that CPUs didn't do well on so a GPU comes out, there it is. And we're going to see processors like data-processing units, Pradeep Sindu, former founder of Juniper's, got a venture called, Fungible, that's building a data-processing unit. It's a dedicated chip to serve analytic workloads. These are specialized silicon chips that are going to come on faster, and, to the marketplace. So , just because there's more chips doesn't mean Intel dies 'cause if the TAM expands it's a, it's an overall bigger market so their share might not be as dominant on a smaller market, but it's-- >> You know, I got a, I got to come back to your John Chambers interview. I've watched it a couple times now and I would recommend people would go to, thecube.net, and see John Furrier's interview with John Chambers. The great companies of this industry have survived, you know, I talked about paranoia, Andy Grove, they've survived because they were not dogmatic about the past. So for the past several decades this industry has marched to the cadence of Moore's law and that was obviously very favorable to Intel. Well, that's changing, and it's changed, the innovation engine now, you've called it the innovation sandwich, which is data, machine intelligence applied to that data, in the scale of Cloud. So Intel has to pivot to that to take advantage of that and that's exactly what they're doing. So the great companies of the future, the Microsoft's, the Intel's, the AWS's, they survive because they can evolve. It's the Wang's that didn't, they denied, it was the PC-- >> They were entitled. >> The digital, right. They thought they were entitled and the point that John Chambers made is there's no entitlement and he kept referring to Boston 128, it used to be the Silicon Valley. And the leading executives today, of companies like, like Cisco, like Intel, like Microsoft, can see a vision to the future and they change when they have to change. >> So companies that are entitled, who are they (chuckling)? >> Wow, that' a really-- >> Is Oracle entitled? >> A good question. >> HPE, Dell? >> I think Oracle absolutely acts as though they're entitled and they're bunkering down into their red stack. Now, you know I've often said, don't bet against Larry Ellison, and I wouldn't make that bet against Larry Ellison, but his TAM is confined to Oracle customers. He's not currently going after, non-Oracle customers in my opinion at least not with a strategy that's obvious to me. And I think that's part of the reason why Thomas Kurian left the company is I think they had a battle about that, at least that's what my sources tell me. I haven't talked to him directly, I actually don't know him, but I know people who know him and have worked with him. HPE, I think HPE is more confused as to what the next step is. When they split the company apart they kind of gave up on software, they gave up on an integrated-supply chain. Mike Odell took the other approach, and thanks to VMware he's got a wining strategy. So, I think today's leading executives realize that they have to change. Look at Ginni Rometty, remember IBM was in trouble in my opinion because Watson failed, and their Cloud strategy essentially failed. So they just made a 34 billion dollar acquisition, a Red Hat, which is a bold move. And that, again, demonstrated a company who said, okay, hey it's not working, we have to pivot and we have to invest and go forward. >> Alright Dave, great kickoff day three. Andy Jassy coming up at the end of the day and he's going to do his annual, kind of, end of the last day roundup on theCUBE, kind of lean back, talk about what's going on and how he feels from the quotes, what people missed, what people got, and do a full review of re:Invent 2018. Day three kicks off here, CUBE, two sets on the floor gettin' all the content. We already have over a hundred videos. We'll have 500 total video assets, go to siliconangle.com and check out the blog there. A lot of stories flowing, a lot of flow, a lot of demand for the content. Stay with us for more after this short break.

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to you by Amazon Web Services, Intel, and their ecosystem partners. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to Las Vegas. I'm Dave Vellante with theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverages. This is day three from AWS re:Invent, #reInvent18, amazing. We have four sets here this week, two sets on the main stage. This is day three for us, our sixth year at AWS re:Invent, covering all the innovations. Markus Strauss is here as a Product Manager for database security at McAfee. Markus, welcome. >> Hi Dave, thanks very much for having me. >> You're very welcome. Topic near and dear to my heart, just generally, database security, privacy, compliance, governance, super important topics. But I wonder if we can start with some of the things that you see as an organization, just general challenges in securing database. Why is it important, why is it hard, what are some of the critical factors? >> Most of our customers, one of the biggest challenges they have is the fact that whenever you start migrating databases into the cloud, you inadvertently lose some of the controls that you might have on premise. Things like monitoring the data, things like being able to do real time access monitoring and real time data monitoring, which is very, very important, regardless of where you are, whether you are in the cloud or on premise. So these are probably really the biggest challenges that we see for customers, and also a point that holds them back a little, in terms of being able to move database workloads into the cloud. >> I want to make sure I understand that. So you're saying, if I can rephrase or reinterpret, and tell me if I'm wrong. You're saying, you got great visibility on prem and you're trying to replicate that degree of visibility in the cloud. >> Correct. >> It's almost the opposite of what you hear oftentimes, how people want to bring the cloud while on premise. >> Exactly. >> It's the opposite here. >> It's the opposite, yeah. 'Cause traditionally, we're very used to monitoring databases on prem, whether that's native auditing, whether that is in memory monitoring, network monitoring, all of these things. But once you take that database workload, and push it into the cloud, all of those monitoring capabilities essentially disappear, 'cause none of that technology was essentially moved over into the cloud, which is a really, really big point for customers, 'cause they cannot take that and just have a gap in their compliance. >> So database discovery is obviously a key step in that process. >> Correct, correct. >> What is database discovery? Why is it important and where does it fit? >> One of the main challenges most customers have is the ability to know where the data sits, and that begins with knowing where the database and how many databases customers have. Whenever we talk to customers and we ask how many databases are within an organization, generally speaking, the answer is 100, 200, 500, and when the actual scanning happens, very often the surprise is it's a lot more than what the customer initially thought, and that's because it's so easy to just spin off a database, work with it, and then forget about it, but from a compliance point of view, that means you're now sitting there, having data, and you're not monitoring it, you're not compliant. You don't even know it exists. So data discovery in terms of database discovery means you got to be able to find where your database workload is and be able to start monitoring that. >> You know, it's interesting. 10 years ago, database was kind of boring. I mean it was like Oracle, SQL Server, maybe DB2, maybe a couple of others, then all of a sudden, the NoSQL explosion occurred. So when we talk about moving databases into the cloud, what are you seeing there? Obviously Oracle is the commercial database market share leader. Maybe there's some smaller players. Well, Microsoft SQL Server obviously a very big... Those are the two big ones. Are we talking about moving those into the cloud? Kind of a lift and shift. Are we talking about conversion? Maybe you could give us some color on that. >> I think there's a bit of both, right? A lot of organizations who have proprietary applications that run since many, many years, there's a certain amount of lift and shift, right, because they don't want to rewrite the applications that run on these databases. But wherever there is a chance for organizations to move into some of their, let's say, more newer database systems, most organizations would take that opportunity, because it's easier to scale, it's quicker, it's faster, they get a lot more out of it, and it's obviously commercially more valuable as well, right? So, we see quite a big shift around NoSQL, but also some of the open source engines, like MySQL, ProsgreSQL, Percona, MariaDB, a lot of the other databases that, traditionally within the enterprise space, we probably wouldn't have seen that much in the past, right? >> And are you seeing that in a lot of those sort of emerging databases, that the attention to security detail is perhaps not as great as it has been in the traditional transaction environment, whether it's Oracle, DB2, even certainly, SQL Server. So, talk about that potential issue and how you guys are helping solve that. >> Yeah, I mean, one of the big things, and I think it was two years ago, when one of the open source databases got discovered essentially online via some, and I'm not going to name names, but the initial default installation had admin as username and no password, right? And it's very easy to install it that way, but unfortunately it means you potentially leave a very, very big gaping hole open, right? And that's one of the challenges with having open source and easily deployable solutions, because Oracle, SQLServer, they don't let you do that that quickly, right? But it might happen with other not as large database instances. One of the things that McAfee for instance does is helps customers making sure that configuration scans are done, so that once you have set up a database instance, that as an organization, you can go in and can say, okay, I need to know whether it's up to patch level, whether we have any sort of standard users with standard passwords, whether we have any sort of very weak passwords that are within the database environment, just to make sure that you cover all of those points, but because it's also important from a compliance point of view, right? It brings me always back to the compliance point of view of the organization being the data steward, the owner of the data, and it has to be our, I suppose, biggest point to protect the data that sits on those databases, right? >> Yeah, well there's kind of two sides of the same coin. The security and then compliance, governance, privacy, it flips. For those edicts, those compliance and governance edicts, I presume your objective is to make sure that those carry over when you move to the cloud. How do you ensure that? >> So, I suppose the biggest point to make that happen is ensure that you have one set of controls that applies to both environments. It brings us back to the hybrid point, right? Because you got to be able to reuse and use the same policies, and measures, and controls that you have on prem and be able to shift these into the cloud and apply them to the same rigor into the cloud databases as you would have been used to on prem, right? So that means being able to use the same set of policies, the same set of access control whether you're on prem or in the cloud. >> Yeah, so I don't know if our folks in our audience saw it today, but Werner Vogels gave a really, really detailed overview of Aurora. He went back to 2004, when their Oracle database went down because they were trying to do things that were unnatural. They were scaling up, and the global distribution. But anyway, he talked about how they re-architected their systems and gave inside baseball on Aurora. Huge emphasis on recovery. So you know, being very important to them, data accessibility, obviously security is a big piece of that. You're working with AWS on Aurora, and RDS as well. Can you talk specifically about what you're doing there as a partnership? >> So, AWS has, I think it was two days ago, essentially put the Aurora database activity stream into private preview, which is essentially a way for third party vendors to be able to read a activity stream off Aurora, enabling McAfee, for instance, to consume that data and bring customers the same level of real-time monitoring to the database as the servers were, as were used to on prem or even in a EC2 environment, where it's a lot easier because customers have access to the infrastructure, install things. That's always been a challenge within the database as the servers were because that access is not there, right? So, customers need to have an ability to get the same level of detail, and with the database activity stream and the ability for McAfee to read that, we give customers the same ability with Aurora PostgreSQL at the moment as customers have on premise with any of the other databases that we support. >> So you're bringing your expertise, some of which is really being able to identify anomalies, and scribbling through all this noise, and identifying the signal that's dangerous, and then obviously helping people respond to that. That's what you're enabling through that connection point. >> Correct, 'cause for organizations, using something like Aurora is a big saving, and the scalability that comes with it is fantastic. But if I can't have the same level of data control that I have on premise, it's going to stop me as an organization, moving critical data into that, 'cause I can't protect it, and I have to be able to. So, with this step, it's a great first step into being able to provide that same level of activity monitoring in real time as we're used to on prem. >> Same for RDS, is that pretty much what you're doing there? >> It's the same for RDS, yes. There is a certain set level of, obviously, you know, we go through before things go into GA but RDS is part of that program as well, yes. >> So, I wonder if we can step back a little bit and talk about some of the big picture trends in security. You know, we've gone from a world of hacktivists to organized crime, which is very lucrative. There are even state sponsored terrorism. I think Stuxnet is interesting. You probably can't talk about Stuxnet. Anyway-- >> No, not really. >> But, conceptually, now the bar is raised and the sophistication goes up. It's an arms race. How are you keeping pace? What role does data have? What's the state of security technology? >> It's very interesting, because traditionally, databases, nobody wanted to touch the areas. We were all very, very good at building walls around and being very perimeter-oriented when it comes to data center and all of that. I think that has changed little bit with the, I suppose the increased focus on the actual data. Since a lot of the legislations have changed since the threat of what if GDPR came in, a lot of companies had to rethink their take on protecting data at source. 'Cause when we start looking at the exfiltration path of data breaches, almost all the exfiltration happens essentially out of the database. Of course, it makes sense, right? I mean I get into the environment through various different other ways, but essentially, my main goal is not to see the network traffic. My main goal as any sort of hacker is essentially get onto the data, get that out, 'cause that's where the money sits. That's what essentially brings the most money in the open market. So being able to protect that data at source is going to help a lot of companies make sure that that doesn't happen, right? >> Now, the other big topic I want to touch on in the minute we have remaining is ransomware. It's a hot topic. People are talking about creating air gaps, but even air gaps, you can get through an air gap with a stick. Yeah, people get through. Your thoughts on ransomware, how are you guys combating that? >> There is very specific strains, actually, developed for databases. It's a hugely interesting topic. But essentially what it does is it doesn't encrypt the whole database, it encrypts very specific key fields, leaves the public key present for a longer period of time than what we're used to see on the endpoint board, where it's a lot more like a shotgun approach and you know somebody is going to pick it up, and going to pay the $200, $300, $400, whatever it is. On the database side, it's a lot more targeted, but generally it's a lot more expensive, right? So, that essentially runs for six months, eight months, make sure that all of the backups are encrypted as well, and then the public key gets removed, and essentially, you have lost access to all of your data, 'cause even the application that access the data can't talk to the database anymore. So, we have put specific controls in place that monitor for changes in the encryption level, so even if only one or two key fields starting to get encrypted with a different encryption key, we're able to pick that up, and alert you on it, and say hey, hang on, there is something different to what you usually do in terms of your encryption. And that's a first step to stopping that, and being able to roll back and bring in a backup, and change, and start looking where the attacker essentially gained access into the environment. >> Markus, are organizations at the point where they are automating that process, or is it still too dangerous? >> A lot of it is still too dangerous, although, having said that, we would like to go more into the automation space, and I think it's something as an industry we have to, because there is so much pressure on any security personnel to follow through and do all of the rules, and sift through, and find the needle in the haystack. But especially on a database, the risk of automating some of those points is very great, because if you make a mistake, you might break a connection, or you might break something that's essentially very, very valuable, and that's the crown jewels, the data within the company. >> Right. All right, we got to go. Thanks so much. This is a really super important topic. >> Appreciate all the good work you're doing. >> Thanks for having me. >> You're very welcome. All right, keep it right there, everybody. You're watching theCUBE. We'll be right back, right after this short break from AWS re:Invent 2018, from Las Vegas. We'll be right back. (techno music)

>> Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE, covering AWS re:Invent 2018, brought to you buy Amazon Web Services, Intel and their ecosystem partners. And welcome back here at AWS re:Invent. We are live in Las Vegas, day three of our coverage right here on the Cube, and we continue our discussion now with Justin Warren and John Walls, with Matt Yanchyshyn, who is the director of solutions architecture at AWS. >> That's right. >> Good morning. Good to see you, sir. >> Thanks for having me. >> And Nick Cayou, vice president of the global ecosystem at Pivotal. And, good to see you this morning, Nick. >> Good morning, thanks for having me. >> All right, first off let's just get your take on what's happening here. We were talking a little but before we got started about here we are, day three, well day four if you count the partner conferences, but last day of the show, and there's still a lot of excitement in the air. >> All the energy out here. >> The show floor's still packed. What have you guys seen this week that's kind of stood out in your mind, Matt? >> Well, I mean people stick around for the third day because Werner Vogels is like a hero for so many people here and so, you know, a lot of buzz is to see his keynote this morning. You know, one thing I've been really excited about is all the announcements around machine learning this week. There's just been an incredible amount of innovation, and people are really excited about the DeepRacer and the DeepRacer league announced this morning, so that, you know, the momentum we're seeing and the excitement around machine learning is really cool to see. >> And from your perspective, Nick? >> I'm joining the marathon towards the middle. I came in last night. Matt and I had dinner. But I think the most impactful announcement I saw coming out of AWS was probably the Outposts announcement, sort of the commitment to hybrid, which, and I know Matt played a big role in kind of pioneering that and so that's super exciting, and I just can't believe how many people have stuck around. I mean, we're on the last day of this thing, and it's like, you know, people are staying after the party. They won't leave the house. >> Yeah, exactly right. Well, at four O'clock they're going to have important things that we're going to think about. DeepRacer, by the way, we've had a couple of guests on. That was a really cool idea about taking literally a small, toy truck, if you will, but programming it and doing some, not reflective learning, but reinforced learning with it, and then actually taking it into practice and putting these cars on tracks and having a yearlong competition. So we'll kind of see next year, how that works out. >> Yeah. >> AWS and Pivotal, all right. So what are the two of aligned with now? What brings the two of you here, and the two companies together? >> Yeah, well, I mean, I think first of all, as companies we have a lot in common, certainly how we think about customers. We're both really sort of customer-obsessed companies. But, you know what I see a lot, I work with partners all day long, and we want to make it easy for both our customers and our partners to embrace modern DevOps, like all these enterprises are going through DevOps transformation, and any tools and partnerships we can create to make that journey easier is really a priority for me and my team. >> Okay, and then from the Pivotal side of the fence? >> Yeah, I would say largely it's our customers. You know, a large portion of our clients have chosen to run Pivotal Cloud Foundry, which is sort of our flagship platform, as a service on AWS. Going back to, you know, tune of 2014 was the first public IaaS we supported after Vsphere, so, you know, I think our customers are pushing us to work together, and I think we've met that challenge. You know, one of the things we're here to talk about from a Pivotal perspective is all the work we've done with Amazon to expose Amazon services to our platform through this technology called a service broker, that you know, over the past six months, Amazon engineers and Pivotal engineers have worked kind of assiduously to deliver to market, and now it's getting in the hands of customers. You know, after this session we're going to go speak with about 50 customers in a private room about how they're deploying Cloud Foundry on AWS and utilizing the service broker to be more productive and drive more innovation of services into their developer community. >> So what are some of the services customers are attracted to? What are they pushing you to put into this service broker? What do they want to do with that? Maybe you could give us a bit of a flavor of that? >> So we came out initially a couple months ago with 18 services that we support, so things like S3, RDS, some of the Hadoop offerings. You know, I think we're going to see the basics, the S3s, probably consumed first, but we're working. We're actually putting some ideas together to see how we can build kind of reference architectures and paradigms to let our customers know how to take advantage of these services like machine learning or some of the Hadoop offerings, etc. >> Yeah, I mean, we started out with some of the IoT integrations already for the service brokers, but I agree. We're starting with the core services, the databases, DynamoDB, RDS, S3, etc. And we're starting to layer in more services over time. >> Well you've got to start with the basics so that you can then build upon that. >> Exactly. >> Which is what Amazon has a long history of doing. You know, you started with EC2 and then you grew beyond S3 and now we have services like SageMaker and things that drive the car with DeepRacer, so it would be nice if we could actually do training models using Pivotal Cloud Foundry. >> Well actually, nothing's stopping us from using PCF. One of the things I love about it is with Cloud Foundry you can use the Service Brokers. It makes it easier for you to adopt AWS services, but nothing's stopping you from using any AWS service, and it's one of actually the great parts of the partnership, so you're not limited to what we have service brokers for. >> Yeah. So, enterprises have been going on this cloud journey for some time, and Amazon's been around for a long time. AWS has had these services for a while, Pivotal as well. Where are we seeing customers? Where's the momentum for customers, where they're transforming their businesses, and we're hearing a lot about hybrid cloud here at the show. Where are enterprises putting their workloads? What are they looking at putting workloads into hybrid as compared to putting things over into public cloud or using Pivotal Cloud Foundry for? >> I guess I'll take it from my angle first. So, you know, approximately 70% of our customers are still running their workloads on prem, right? That doesn't mean to say that they're not expanding those applications out to Amazon, for example, and I think the key trend we're seen is, you know, cloud is becoming more of an operating model, and what we focus on is teaching our clients how to build and rebuilt software. The big sort of surface area below the iceberg for us right now is all of the enterprise applications, legacy monoliths that need to be kind of decomposed and moved into a cloud operating model, modernized through things like data services that we can expose through our platform to something like AWS. And, you know, it's starting to shift. We were talking earlier about the Outpost and how I think the goal is to kind of meet customers where they are together, if that's the best way to put it. >> Yeah. >> Both Amazon and Pivotal. >> Yeah, I mean with the size of customers we're working with, like Comcast and Liberty Mutual and US Air Force, it's not like a single jump into the cloud. It's a migration, a lot of different workloads, a lot of different divisions of these companies. So it's sort of a continuum, and so different companies are at different stages of their migration and adoption of the cloud all over different parts of the business, so I think the hybrid story is really meeting that need. You have some divisions that are going to jump right into server lists and IoT, and then you have other parts of the company that maybe, you know, have a mainframe that they're still tied to, so there's always going to be some of these dependencies, and so I think hybrid story allows us to sort of address all different parts of the companies we work with. >> So what are the factors then? If I'm looking at, you know, a hybrid cloud solution, how do you help people decide what to put where? Because, you know, you got it on prem, it becomes, you know, a heave, right? To move some things over, and so, could be easier to I guess, take the lightest lift and go from there, but that's not necessarily the best route to go, so how do you help people with that kind of decision? >> Yeah, I mean, we believe in the fullness of time that customers will eventually move everything to the cloud but, you know, in the meantime, like I said, it's going to be a multiyear journey for a lot of these big customers. So like if you take, you know, a Liberty Mutual or a Comcast, these are very large companies, and we work with them to find teams and workloads within, and that comes down to people a lot of the time. You know, different teams may be at a different point of sort of agility in terms of DevOps, and if they're able to adapt their software. If their software runs on x86 infrastructure and if they're already using CICD for example and if they're used to containers, then they're going to be good candidates. So I always look to the people and then the products and then decide what they're going to migrate in that order. >> Yeah, and I would say that, you know, there's a lot of big enterprises that are looking to shut down data centers and they've already made a decision to fundamentally move infrastructure to AWS for example, right? And a lot of times we'll be brought in after the fact if you will, to deliver that developer experience on top of an already made, fundamentally an outsourcing decision, so all the reasons, you know, cost, complexity, flexible finances, consumption-based pricing, a lot of that kind of substrate decision has already been made, and we're generally coming in and saying, okay, now let's look at the application architecture. Are there things like latency and/or regulatory requirements that would require you to keep this on prem versus moving completely to the public cloud? Are there services? So, you know, could you move off of legacy middleware for example, on prem, and take advantage of, you know, refactoring and moving applications into the public cloud to improve your cost structure there? There's a myriad of issues. I think we would generally agree. A lot of times we get guidance from our customers in their respective market segment as to what's most important to them. >> So looking ahead trying to sketch out the vision of what we're going to see in the future, what do you think that customers are going to be asking for you, next year, two years out? >> Well, I think we've had a great reception for a lot of the templates and the automation that we've co-engineered. You know, Nick was talking about a lot of the co-engineering. So we have something called the AWS Quick Starts that allow you to deploy Pivotal Cloud Foundry really quickly, and so we've had really good reception from customers. >> Yep. >> Like, things that we can make it easier for them to deploy Pivotal and just sort of explore using AWS. We're going to double down on those efforts. More service brokers, more Quick Starts, more Automation more self-service for customers to they can get started with pivotal, you know, quickly. >> Yeah, and I'd add we're also, we support a product we launched about three quarters ago, Pivotal Container Service, on AWS, and so I think we'll see by virtue of the partnership with VMware, a lot more customer demand to run PKS, you know, on AWS, on Outposts, on VM cloud for AWS, and all the variants of the VMware and Amazon partnership as well. >> Yeah, like you said, meeting customers where they are. >> That's right, yeah. >> Well you're about to meet Cisco >> (laughs) that's right. >> So, good luck with that, and I'm sure you're going to get a very positive earful, which is always a good thing and continue that great work with them. Gentlemen, thanks for being with us. >> Thanks for having us. >> Appreciate the time. >> Thank you. >> Back with more AWS re:Invent. We're live here in Las Vegas at the Sands expo, and you're watching theCUBE.