(upbeat music) >> Hello, brilliant humans and welcome back to theCUBE. We're live from Detroit, Michigan. My name is Savannah Peterson. Joined here with John Furrier, John, so exciting, day three. >> Day three, cranking along, doing great, final day of KubeCon, it wraps up. This next segment's going to be great. It's about WebAssembly, the hottest trend here, at KubeCon that nobody knows about cause they just got some funding and it's got some great traction. Multiple players in here. People are really interested in this and they're really discovering it. They're digging into it. So, we're going to hear from one of the founders of the company that's involved. So, it'll be great. >> Yeah, I think we're right at the tip of the iceberg really. We started off the show with Scott from Docker talking about this, but we have a thought leader in this space. Please welcome Matt Butcher the CEO and co-founder of Fermyon Thank you for being here. Welcome. >> Yeah, thanks so much for having me. Favorite thing to talk about is WebAssembly after that is coffee but WebAssembly first. >> Hey, it's the morning. We can talk about both those on the show. (all chuckles) >> It might get confusing, but I'm willing to try. >> If you can use coffee as a metaphor to teach everyone about WebAssembly throughout the rest of the show. >> All right. That would be awesome. >> All right I'll keep that in mind. >> So when we were talking before we got on here I thought it was really fun because I think the hype is just starting in the WebAssembly space. Very excited about it. Where do you think we're at, set the stage? >> Honestly, we were really excited to come here and see that kind of first wave of hype. We came here expecting to have to answer the question you know, what is WebAssembly and why is anybody looking at it in the cloud space, and instead people have been coming up to us and saying, you know this WebAssembly thing, we're hearing about it. What are the problems it's solving? >> Savannah: Yeah. >> We're really excited to hear about it. So, people literally have been stopping us in restaurants and walking down the street, hey, "You're at KubeCon, you're the WebAssembly people. Tell us more about what's going on." >> You're like awesome celeb. I love this. >> Yeah, and I, >> This is great >> You know the, the description I used was I expected to come here shouting into the void. Hey, you know anybody, somebody, let me tell you about WebAssembly. Instead it's been people coming to us and saying "We've heard about it. Get us excited about it," and I think that's a great place to be. >> You know, one of the things that's exciting too is that this kind of big trend with this whole extraction layer conversation, multicloud, it reminds me of the old app server days where, you know there was a separation between the back end and front end, and then we're kind of seeing that now with this WebAssembly Wasm trend where the developers just want to have the apps run everywhere and the coding to kind of fall in, take a minute to explain what this is, why it's important, why are people jazzed about there's other companies like Cosmonic is in there. There's a lot of open source movement behind it. You guys are out there, >> Savannah: Docker. >> 20 million in fresh funding. Why is this important? What is it and why is it relevant right now? Why are people talking about it? >> I mean, we can't... There is no penasia in the tech world much for the good of all of us, right? To keep us employed. But WebAssembly seems to be that technology that just sort of arose at the right time to solve a number of problems that were really feeling intractable not very long ago. You know, at the core of what is WebAssembly? Well it's a binary format, right? But there's, you know, built on the same, strain of development that Java was built on in the 90's and then the .net run time. But with a couple of little fundamental changes that are what have made it compelling today. So when we think about the cloud world, we think about, okay well security's a big deal to us. Virtual machines are a way for us to run other people's untrusted operating systems on our hardware. Containers come along, they're a... The virtual machine is really the heavyweight class. This is the big thing. The workhorse of the cloud. Then along come Containers, they're a little slimmer. They're kind of the middleweight class. They provide us this great way to sort of package up just the application, not the entire operating system just the application and the bits we care about and then be able to execute those in a trusted environment. Well you know, serverless was the buzzword a few years ago. But one thing that serverless really identified for us is that we didn't actually have the kind of cloud side architecture that was the compute layer that was going to be able to fulfill the promise of serverless. >> Yeah. >> And you know, at that time I was at Microsoft we got to see behind the curtain and see how Azure operates and see the frustration with going, okay how do we get this faster? How do we get this startup time down from seconds to hundreds of milliseconds, WebAssembly comes along and we're able to execute these things in sub one millisecond, which means there is almost no cost to starting up one of these. >> Sub one millisecond. I just want to let everyone rest on that for a second. We've talked a lot about velocity and scale on the show. I mean everyone here is trying to do things faster >> Yep >> Obviously, but that is a real linchpin that makes a very big difference when we're talking about deploying things. Yeah. >> Yeah, and I mean when you think about the ecological and the cost impact of what we're building with the cloud. When we leave a bunch of things running in idle we're consuming electricity if nothing else. The electricity bill keeps going up and we're paying for it via cloud service charges. If you can start something in sub one millisecond then there's no reason you have to leave it running when nobody's using it. >> Savannah: Doesn't need to be in the background. >> That's right. >> So the lightweight is awesome. So, this new class comes up. So, like Java was a great metaphor there. This is kind of like that for the modern era of apps. >> Yeah. >> Where is this going to apply most, do you think? Where's it going to impact most? >> Well, you know, I think there are really four big categories. I think there's the kind of thing I was just talking about I think serverless and edge computing and kind of the server class of problem space. I think IOT is going to benefit, Amazon, Disney Plus, >> Savannah: Yes, edge. >> And PBS, sorry BBC, they all use WebAssembly for the players because they need to run the same player on thousands of different devices. >> I didn't even think about that use case. What a good example. >> It's a brilliant way to apply it. IOT is a hard space period and to be able to have that kind of layer of abstraction. So, that's another good use case >> Savannah: Yeah. >> And then I think this kind of plugin model is another one. You see it was Envoy proxy using this as a way to extend the core features. And I think that one's going to be very, very promising as well. I'm forgetting one, but you know. (all chuckles) I think you end up with these kind of discreet compartments where you can easily fit WebAssembly in here and it's solving a problem that we didn't have the technology that was really adequately solving it before. >> No, I love that. One of the things I thought was interesting we were all at dinner, we were together on Tuesday. I was chatting with Paris who runs Deliveroo at Apple and I can't say I've heard this about too many tools but when we were talking about WebAssembly she said "This is good for everybody" And, it's really nice when technologies come along that will raise the water level across the board. And I love that you're leading this. Speaking of you just announced a huge series aid, 20 million dollars just a few days ago. What does that mean for you and the team? >> I mean there's a little bit of economic uncertainty and it's always nice, >> Savannah: Just a little bit. >> Little bit. >> Savannah: It's come up on the show a little bit this week >> Just smidge. and it's nice to know that we're at a critical time developing this kind of infrastructure layer developing this kind of developer experience where they can go from, you know, blinking cursor to deployed application in two minutes or less. It would be a tragedy if that got forestalled merely because you can't achieve the velocity you need to carry it out. So, what's very exciting about being able to raise around like that at this critical time is that gives us the ability to grow strategically, be able to continue releasing products, building a community around WebAssembly as a whole and of course around our products at Fermyon is a little smaller circle in the bigger circle, and that's why we are so excited about having closed around, that's the perfect one to extend a runway like that. >> Well I'm super excited by this because one I love the concept. I think it's very relevant, like how you progress heavyweight, middleweight, maybe this is lightweight class. >> I know, I'm here for the analogy. No, it's great, its great. >> Maybe it's a lightweight class. >> And we're slimming, which not many of us can say in these times so that's awesome. >> Maybe it's more like the tractor trailer, the van, now you got the sports car. >> Matt: Yeah, I can go.. >> Now you're getting Detroit on us. >> I was trying for a coffee, when I just couldn't figure it out. (all chuckles) >> So, you got 20 million. I noticed the investors amplify very good technical VC and early stage firm. >> Amazing, yeah. >> Insight, they do early stage, big early stage like this. Also they're on the board of Docker. Docker was intent to put a tool out there. There's other competition out there. Cosmonic is out there. They're funded. So you got VC funded companies like yourselves and Cosmonic and others. What's that mean? Different tool chains, is it going to create fragmentation? Is there a common mission? How do you look at the competition as you get into the market >> When you see an ecosystem form. So, here we are at KubeCon, the cloud native ecosystem at this point I like to think of them as like concentric rings. You have the kind of core and then networking and storage and you build these rings out and the farther out you get then the easier it is to begin talking about competition and differentiation. But, when you're looking at that core piece everybody's got to be in there together working on the same stuff, because we want interoperability, we want standards based solutions. We want common ways of building things. More than anything, we want the developers and operators and users who come into the ecosystem to be able to like instantly feel like, okay I don't have to learn. Like you said, you know, 50 different tools for 50 different companies. "I see how this works", and they're doing this and they're doing this. >> Are you guys all contributing into the same open source? >> Yep, yeah, so... >> All the funding happens. >> Both CNCF and the ByteCode Alliance are organizations that are really kind of pushing forward that core technology. You know, you mentioned Cosmonic, Microsoft, SOSA, Red Hat, VMware, they're all in here too. All contributing and again, with all of us knowing this is that nascent stage where we got to execute it. >> How? >> Do it together. >> How are you guys differentiating? Because you know, open source is a great thing. Rising Tide floats all boats. This is a hot area. Is there a differentiation discussion or is it more let's see how it goes, kind of thing? >> Well for us, we came into it knowing very specifically what the problem was we wanted to solve. We wanted this serverless architecture that executed in sub one millisecond to solve, to really create a new wave of microservices. >> KubeCon loves performance. They want to run their stuff on the fastest platform possible. >> Yeah, and it shouldn't be a roadblock, you know, yeah. >> And you look at someone like SingleStore who's a database company and they're in it because they want to be able to run web assemblies close to the data. Instead of doing a sequel select and pulling it way out here and munging it and then pushing it back in. They move the code in there and it's executing in there. So everybody's kind of finding a neat little niche. You know, Cosmonic has really gone more for an enterprise play where they're able to provide a lot of high level security guarantees. Whereas we've been more interested in saying, "Hey, this your first foray into WebAssembly and you're interested in serverless we'll get you going in like a couple of minutes". >> I want to ask you because we had Scott Johnston on earlier opening keynote so we kind of chatted one-on-one and I went off form cause I really wanted to talk to him because Docker is one of the most important companies since their pivot, when they did their little reset after the first Docker kind of then they sold the enterprise off to Mirantis they've been doing really, really well. What's your relationship to Docker? He was very bullish with you guys. Insights, joint investor. Is there a relationship? You guys talk, what's going on there? >> I mean, I'm going to have to admit a little bit of hero worship on my part. I think Scott is brilliant. I just do, and having come from the Kubernetes world the Fermyon team, we've always kind of kept an eye on Docker communicated with a lot of them. We've known Justin Cormack for years. Chris Cornett. (indistinct) I mean yeah, and so it has been a very natural >> Probably have been accused of every Docker Con and we've did the last three years on the virtual side with them. So, we know them really well. >> You've always got your finger on the pulse for them. >> Do you have a relationship besides a formal relationship or is it more of pass shoot score together in the industry? >> Yeah. No, I think it is kind of the multi-level one. You come in knowing people. You've worked together before and you like working with each other and then it sort of naturally extends onto saying, "Hey, what can we do together?" And also how do we start building this ecosystem around us with Docker? They've done an excellent job of articulating why WebAssembly is a complimentary technology with Containers. Which is something I believe very wholeheartedly. You need all three of the heavyweight, middleweight, lightweight. You can't do all the with just one, and to have someone like that sort of with a voice profoundly be able to express, look we're going to start integrating it to show you how it works this way and prevent this sort of like needless drama where people are going, oh Dockers dead, now everything's WebAssembly, and that's been a great.. >> This fight that's been going on. I mean, Docker, Kubernetes, WebAssembly, Containers. >> Yeah. >> We've seen on the show and we both know this hybrid is the future. We're all going to be using a variety of different tools to achieve our goals and I think that you are obviously one of them. I'm curious because just as we were going on you mentioned that you have a PhD in philosophy. (Matt chuckles) >> Matt: Yeah. >> Which is a wild card. You're actually our second PhD in philosophy working in a very technical role on the show this week, which is kind of cool. So, how does that translate into the culture at Fermyon? What's it like on the team? >> Well, you know, a philosophy degree if nothing else teaches you to think in systems and both human systems and formal systems. So that helps and when you approach the process of building a company, you need to be thinking both in terms of how are we organizing this? How are we organizing the product? How do we organize the team? We have really learned that culture is a major deal and culture philosophy, >> Savannah: Why I'm bringing it up. >> We like that, you know, we've been very forward. We have our chip values, curiosity, humility inclusivity and passion, and those are kind of the four things that we feel like that each of us every day should strive to be exhibiting these kinds of things. Curiosity, because you can't push the envelope if you don't ask the hard questions. Humility, because you know, it's easy to get cocky and talk about things as if you knew all the answers. We know we don't and that means we can learn from Docker and Microsoft >> Savannah: That's why you're curious. >> And the person who stops by the booth that we've never met before and says, "hey" and inclusivity, of course, building a community if you don't execute on that well you can't build a good community. The diversity of the community is what makes it stronger than a singular.. >> You have to come in and be cohesive with the community. >> Matt: Yeah. >> The app focus is a really, I think, relevant right now. The timing of this is right online. I think Scott had a good answer I thought on the relationship and how he sees it. I think it's going to be a nice extension to not a extension that way, but like. >> It probably will be as well. >> Almost a pun there John, almost a pun. >> There actually might be an extension, but evolution what we're going to get to which I think is going to be pure application server, like. >> Yep, yep. Like performance for new class of developer. Then now the question comes up and we've been watching developer productivity. That is a big theme and our belief is that if you take digital transformation to its conclusion IT and developers aren't a department serving the business they are the business. That means the developer workflows will have to be radically rebuilt to handle the velocity and new tech for just coding. I call it architectural list. >> I like that. I might steal that. >> It's a pun, but it's also brings up the provocative question. You shouldn't have to need an architecture to code. I mean, Java was great for that reason in many ways. So, if that happens if the developers are running the business that means more apps. The apps is the business. You got to have tool chains and productivity. You can't have fragmentation. Some people are saying WebAssembly might, fork tool chains, might challenge the developer productivity. what's your answer to that? How would you address that objection? >> I mean the threat of forking is always lurking in the corner in open source. In a way it's probably a positive threat because it keeps us honest it keeps us wanting to be inclusive again and keep people involved. Honestly though, I'm not particularly worried about it. I know that the W-3 as a standards body, of course, one of the most respected standards bodies on the planet. They do html, they do cascading style sheets. WebAssembly is in that camp and those of us in the core are really very interested in saying, you know, come on in, let's build something that's going to be where the core is solid and you know what you got and then you can go into the resurgence of the application server. I mean, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that, and we can only get there if we say, all right, here are the common paradigms that we're all going to agree to use, now let's go build stuff. >> And as we've been saying, developers are setting, I think are going to set the standards and they're going to vote with their code and their feet, if you will. >> Savannah: A hundred percent. >> They will decide if you're not aligning with what they want to do. okay. On how they want to self-serve and or work, you'll figure that out. >> Yep, yep. >> You'll get instant feedback. >> Yeah. >> Well, you know, again, I tell you a huge fan of Docker. One of the things that Docker understood at the very outset, is that they had an infrastructure tool and developers were the way to get adoption, and if you look at how fast they got adoption versus many, many other technologies that are profoundly impacted. >> Savannah: Wild. >> Yeah. >> Savannah: It's a cool story. >> It's because they got the developers to go, "This is amazing, hey infrastructure folks, here's an infrastructure tool that we like" and the infrastructure folks are used to code being tossed over the wall are going, "Are you for real?" I mean, and that was a brilliant way to do it and I think that what.. >> John: Yeah, yeah. >> We want to replay in the WebAssembly world is making it developer friendly and you know the kind of infrastructure that we can actually operate. >> Well congratulations to the entire community. We're huge fans of the concept. I kind of see where it's going with connect the dots. You guys getting a lot of buzz. I have to ask you, my final question is the hype is beyond all recognition at this point. People are super pumped and enthusiastic about it and people are looking at it maybe some challenging it, but that's all good things. How do you get to the next level where people are confident that this is actually going to go the next step? Hype to confidence. We've seen great hype. Envoy was hyped up big time before it came in, then it became great. That was one of my favorite examples. Hype is okay, but now you got to put some meat on the bone. The sizzle on the stake so to speak. So what's going to be the stake for you guys as you see this going forward? What's the need? >> Yeah, you know, I talk about our first guiding story was, you know, blinking cursor to deployed application in two minutes. That's what you need to win developers initially. So, what's the next story after that? It's got to be, Fermyon can run real world applications that solve real world problems. That's where hype often fails. If you can build something that's neat but nobody's quite sure what to do with it, to use it, maybe somebody will discover a good use. But, if you take that gambling asset, >> Savannah: It's that ending answer that makes the difference. >> Yeah, yeah. So we say, all right, what are developers trying to build with our platform and then relentlessly focus on making that easier and solving the real world problem that way. That's the crucial thing that's going to drive us out of that sort of early hype stage into a well adopted technology and I talk from Fermyon point of view but really that's for all of us in the WebAssembly. >> John: Absolutely. >> Very well stated Matt, just to wrap us up when we're interviewing you here on theCUBE next year, what do you hope to be able to say then that you can't say today? >> All this stuff about coffee we didn't cover today, but also.. (all chuckles) >> Savannah: Here for the coffee show. Only analogies, that's a great analogy. >> I want to walk here and say, you know last time we talked about being able to achieve density in servers that was, you know, 10 times Kubernetes. Next year I want to say no, we're actually thousands of times beyond Kubernetes that we're lowering people's electricity bill by making these servers more efficient and the developers love it. >> That your commitment to the environment is something I want to do an entirely different show on. We learned that 7-8% of all the world's powers actually used on data centers through the show this week which is jarring quite frankly. >> Yeah, yeah. Tragic would be a better way of saying that. >> Yeah, I'm holding back so that we don't go over time here quite frankly. But anyways, Matt Butcher thank you so much for being here with us. >> Thank you so much for having me it was pleasure.. >> You are worth the hype you are getting. I am grateful to have you as our WebAssembly thought leader. In addition to Scott today from Docker earlier in the show. John Furrier, thanks for being my co-host and thank all of you for tuning into theCUBE here, live from Detroit. I'm Savannah Peterson and we'll be back with more soon. (ambient music)

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube presenting Cuban cloud brought to you by silicon angle. >>We continue >>with Cuban Cloud. We're here with Milan Thompson Bukovec, who's the vice president? Block and object storage at A W s, which comprise comprises elastic block storage, AWS s three and Amazon Glacier. Milan. Great to see you again. Thanks so much for coming on the program. >>Nice to be here. Thanks for having me, David. >>You're very welcome it So here we are. We're unpacking the future of cloud. And we'd love to get your perspectives on how customers should think about the future of infrastructure, things like applying machine intelligence to their data. But just to set the stage when we look back at the history of storage in the Cloud is obviously started with us three. And then a couple years later was introduced CBS for block storage. And those are the most well known services in the portfolio. But there's there's Mawr, this cold storage and new capabilities that you announced recently. It reinvent around, you know, super duper block storage and in tearing is another example. But it looks like AWS is really starting to accelerate and pick up the pace of customer >>options in >>storage. So my first question is, how should we think about this expanding portfolio? >>Well, I think you have to go all the way back to what customers air trying to do with their data. Dave, The path to innovation is paved by data. If you don't have data, you don't have machine learning. You don't have the next generation of analytics applications. That helps you chart a path forward into a world that seems to be changing every week. And so in orderto have that insight in orderto have that predictive forecasting that every company needs, regardless of what industry that you're in today. It all starts from data, and I think the key shift that I've seen is how customers are thinking about that data about being instantly usable, whereas in the past it might have been a backup. Now it's part of a data lake, and if you could bring that data into a data lake, you can have not just analytics or machine learning or auditing applications. It's really what does your application do for your business, and how can it take advantage of that vast amount of shared data set in your business. Awesome. >>So thank you. So I wanna I wanna make sure we're hitting on the big trends that you're seeing in the market. That kind of informing your strategy around the portfolio and what you're seeing with customers Instant usability. You you bring in machine learning into the equation. I think, um, people have really started to understand the benefits of of of cloud storage as a service on the pay paid by the drink and that whole whole model, obviously co vid has accelerated that cloud migration has accelerated. Anything else we're missing there. What are the other big trends that you see if any? >>Well, Dave, you did a good job of capturing a lot of the drivers. The one thing I would say that just sits underneath All of it is the massive growth of digital data year over year I. D. C. Says digital data is growing at a rate of 40% year over year, and that has been true for a while. And it's not going to stop. It's gonna keep on growing because the sources of that data acquisition keeps on expanding and whether it's coyote devices whether it is content created by users. That data is going to grow, and everything you're talking about depends on the ability to not just capture it and store it. But as you say, use it well, >>you know, and we talk about data growth a lot, and sometimes it becomes bromide. But I think the interesting thing that I've observed over the last a couple of decades really is that the growth is nonlinear on. It's really the curve is starting. Thio used to shape exponentially. You guys always talk about that flywheel. Effect it. It's really hard to believe, You know, people say trees don't grow to the moon. It seems like data does. >>It does. And what's interesting about working in the world of AWS storage Dave is that it's counterintuitive. But our goal without data growth is to make it cost effective. And so year over year, how could we make it cheaper and cheaper? Just have customers store more and more data so they can use it. But it's also to think about the definition of usage. And what kind of data is that? Eyes being tapped by businesses for their insights and make that easier than it's ever been before. Let me ask >>you a follow up question on that my life could I get asked this a lot? Or guy here comments a lot that yes, A W s continuously and rigorously reduces pricing. But it's just >>kind of >>following the natural curve of Moore's law or, you know, whatever. How >>do you >>respond to that? And there are other factors involved. Obviously, labor is another cost reducing factor. But what's the trend line say, >>Well, cost efficiencies in our DNA, Dave. We come to work every day and aws across all of our services, and we ask ourselves, How can we lower our costs and be able to pass that along to customers? As you say, there are many different aspects to cost. There's the cost of the storage itself is the cost of the data center. And that's really what we've seen impact a lot of customers that were slower or just getting started with removed. The cloud is they entered 2020 and then they found out exactly how expensive that data center was to maintain because they had to put in safety equipment and they had to do all the things that you have to do in a pandemic in a data center. And so sometimes that cost is a little bit hidden or won't show up until you really don't need to have it land. But the cost of managing that explosive growth of data is very riel. And when we're thinking about cost, we're thinking about cost in terms of how can I lower it on a per gigabyte per month basis? But we're also building into the product itself adaptive discounts like we have a storage class in S three that's called intelligent hearing. And in intelligence hearing, we have built in monitoring where, if particular objects aren't frequently accessed in a given month, ah, customer will automatically get a discounted price for that storage or a customer Can you know, as of late last year, say that they wanna automatically move storage in the storage class that has been stored, for example, longer than 100 and 80 days and saves 95% by moving it into archive storage, deep archives storage? And so it's not just, you know, relentlessly going after and lowering the cost of storage. It's also building into the products these new ways where we can adaptive Lee discount storage based on what a customer's storage is actually doing >>well. And I would, I would add to our audience, is the other thing that does has done is it's really forced transparency almost the same way that Amazon has done on retail. And now my mom, When we talked last I mentioned that s three was an object store. And of course, that's technically technically correct. But your comment to me was Dave. It's more than that. And you started to talk about sage Maker and AI and bringing in machine learning. And I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the future of how storage is gonna be leveraged in the cloud that's may be different than what we've been, you know, used to in the early days of s three and how your customers should be thinking about infrastructure not as bespoke services but as a suite of capabilities and maybe some of those adjacent adjacent services that you see as most leverage a ble for customers And why? >>Well, to tell this story, dude, we're gonna have to go a little bit back in time all the way back to the 19 nineties. Or before then, when all you had waas, a set of hardware appliance vendors that sold you appliances that you put in your data center and inherently created a data silo because those hardware appliances were hardwired to your application. And so an individual application that was dealing with auditing as an example wouldn't really be able to access the storage for another application. Because you know, the architecture er of that legacy world is tied to a data silo and s tree came out launched in 2000 and six and introduced very low cost storage. That is an object. And I'll tell you, Dave, you know, over the last 10 plus years, we have seen all kinds of data come into us three, whereas before it might have been backups or it might have been images and videos. Now a pretty substantial data set is our parquet files and orc files. Thes files are there for business analytics for more real time type of processing. And that has really been the trend of the future. Is taking these different files putting them in a shared file layer, So any application today or in the future can tap into that data. And so this idea of the shared file layer is a major trend that has been taking off for the last. I would say five or six years, and I expect that to not only keep on going, but to really open up the type of services that you can then do on that shared file layer and whether that sage maker or some of the machine learning introduced by our connect service, it's bringing together the data as a starting point. And then the applications can evolve very rapidly. On top of that, I want to >>ask your opinion about big data architectures. One of our guests, Jim Octagon E. She's amazing, uh, data architect, and she's put forth this notion of a distributed global mesh, and I picked him picking up on some of the comments. Andy Jassy made it at reinvent How essentially Hey, we're bringing a W s to the edge. We see the data center is just another edge. Notes. You're seeing this massive distributed system evolving. You guys have talked about that for a while, and data by its very nature is distributed. But we've had this tendency to put into it monolithic Data Lake or a data warehouse on bits sort of antithetical to that distributed nature. So how >>do >>you see that playing out? What do you see customers in the future doing in terms of their big data architectures? And what does that mean for storage? >>It comes down to the nature of the data and again, the usage and Dave. That's where I see the biggest difference in these modern data architectures from the legacy of 20 years ago is the idea that the data need drives the data storage. So let's taken example of the type of data that you always wanna have on the edge. We have customers today that need tohave storage in the field and whether the field of scientific research or oftentimes, it's content creation in the in the film industry or if it's for military operations. There's a lot of data that needs to be captured and analyzed in the field and for us, what that means is that you know we have a suite of products called Snowball and whether it's snowball or snow cone, take your pick. That whole portfolio of AWS services is targeted at customers that need to do work with storage at the edge. And so it you know, if you think about the need for multiple applications acting on the same data set, that's when you keep it in an AWS region. And what we've done in AWS storage is we've recognized that depending on the need of usage, where you put your data and how you interactive, it may vary. But we've built a whole set of services like data transfer to help make sure that we can connect data from, for example, that new snow cone into a region automatically. And so our goal Dave, is to make sure that when customers air operating at the edge or they're operating in the region, they have the same quality of storage service, and they have easy ways to go between them. You shouldn't have to pick. You should be able to do it all. >>So in the spirit of do it all, this is sort of age old dynamic in the tech business, where you've got the friction between the the best of breed and the integrated suite, and my question is around what you're optimizing for for customers. And can you have your cake and eat it too? In other words, why A W S storage does what makes a compelling? Is it because it's kind of a best of breed storage service? Or is it because it's integrated with a W S? Would you ever sub optimize one in in order to get an advantage to the other? Or can you actually, >>you >>know, have your cake and eat it, too? >>The way that we build storage is to focus on being both the breath of capabilities on the depth of capabilities. And so where we identify ah, particular need where we think that it takes a whole new service to deliver, we'll go build that service and example for that is FTP, our AWS sftp service, which you know there's a lot of sftp usage out there and there will be for a while because of the you know, the Legacy B two b type of architectures that still live in the business world today. And so we looked at that problem. We said, How are we gonna build that in the best depth way and the best focus? And we launched a separate service for them. And so our goal is to take the individual building blocks of CBS and Glacier and s three and make the best of class and the most comprehensive in the capabilities of what we can dio and where we identify very specific need. We'll go build a service for. But, Dave, you know, as an example for that idea of both depths and breath s three storage lands is a great example of that s three storage lands is a new capability that we launched last year. And what it does is it lets you look across all your regions and all your accounts and get a summary view of all your s three storage and whether that's buckets or, you know, the most active prefixes that you have and be able to drill down from that and that is built in to the S three service and available for any customer that wants to turn it on in the AWS Management Council. >>Right? And we we saw just recently made I called it super duper block storage. But you made some, you know, improvements and really addressing the highest performance. Um, I want to ask you So we've all learned about an experience the benefits of cloud over the last several years, and especially in the last 10 months during the pandemic. But one >>of >>the challenges, and it's particularly acute with bio is, of course, Leighton see and moving data around and accessing data remotely. It's It's a challenge for customers, you know, due to speed of light, etcetera. So my question is, how was a W s thinking about all that data that still resides on premises? I think we heard that reinvent. That's still 90% of the opportunities or or the workloads. They're still on Prem that live inside a customer's data center. So how do you tap into those and help customers innovate with on Prem data, particularly from a storage >>angle? Well, we always want to provide the best of class solution for those little Leighton see workloads, and that's why we launched Block Express just late last year. It reinvent and Black expresses a new capability and preview on top of our Iot to provisioned eye ops volume type, and what's really interesting about Block Express Dave, is that the way that we're able to deliver the performance of Block Express, which is sound performance with cloud elasticity, is that we went all the way down to the network layer and we customize the hardware software. And at the network Lehrer, we built a Block Express on something called SRD, which stands for a scalable, reliable diagrams. And basically, what is letting us to do is offload all of our EBS operations for Block Express on the Nitro card on hardware. And so that type of innovation where we're able Thio, you know, take advantage of modern cop commodity, multi tenant data center networks where we're sending in this new network protocol across a large number of network paths, and that that type of innovation all the way down to that protocol level helps us innovate in a way that's hard. In fact, I would say impossible for for other sound providers to kind of really catch up and keep up. And so we feel that the amount of innovation that we have for delivering those low latency workloads in our AWS cloud storage is is unlimited, really, Because of that ability to customize software, hardware and network protocols as we go along without requiring upgrades from a customer it just gets better and the customer benefits. Now if you want to stay in your data center, that's why we built outposts. And for outpost, we have EBS and we have s three for outposts. And our goal there is that some customers will have workloads where they want to keep them resident in the data center And for those customers, we want to give them that AWS storage opportunities as well. So >>thank you for coming back to block Express. So you call it in sand in the cloud eso Is that essentially you've you've comprises a custom built, essentially storage storage network. Is that is that right? What kind of what you just described? SRD? I think you call it. >>Yeah, it's SRT is used by other AWS services as well, but it is a custom network protocol that we designed to deliver the lowest latency experience on We're taking advantage of it with Block Express >>sticking with traditional data centers for a moment, I'm interested in your thoughts on the importance of the cloud you know, pricing approach I e. The consumption model to paid by the drink. Obviously, it's one of the most attractive features But But And I ask that because we're seeing what Andy Jassy first, who is the old Guard Institute? Flexible pricing models. Two of the biggest storage companies HP with Green Lake and Dell has this thing called Apex. They've announced such models for on Prem and and presumably, Cross Cloud. How >>do you think >>this is going to impact your customers Leverage of AWS cloud storage? Is it something that you have ah, opinion on? >>Yeah, I think it all comes down to again that usage of the storage And this is where I think there is an inherent advantage for our cloud storage. So there might be an attempt by the old guard toe lower prices or add flexibility. But the end of the day it comes down to what the customer actually needs to to. And if you think about gp three, which is the new E. B s volume, the idea with GP three is we're gonna pass along savings to the customer by making the storage 20% cheaper than GP two. And we're gonna make the product better by giving a great, reliable baseline performance. But we're also going to let customers who want to run work clothes like Cassandra on TBS tune their throughput separately, for example, from their capacity. So if you're running Cassandra, sometimes you don't need to change your capacity. Your storage capacity works just fine, but what happens with for example, Cassandra were quote is that you may need more throughput. And if you're buying hardware appliance, you just have to buy for your peak. You have to buy for the max of what you think, your throughput in the max of what your storage is and this inherent flexibility that we have for AWS storage and being able to tune throughput separate from IOP, separate from capacity like you do for GP three. That is really where the future is for customers having control over costs and control over customer experience without compromising or trading off either one. >>Awesome. Thank you for that. So another time we have remaining my line. I want to talk about the topic of diversity. Uh, social impact on Daz. Ah, woman leader, women executive on. I really wanna get your perspectives on this, and I've shared with the audience previously. One of my breaking analysis segments your your boxing video, which is awesome and eso so you've got a lot of unique, non traditional aspects to your to your life, and and I love it. But I >>want to >>ask you this. So it's obviously, you know, certainly politically and socially correct to talk about diversity, the importance of diversity. There's data that suggests that that that diversity is good both economically, not just socially. And of course, it's the right thing to do. But there are those. Peter Thiel is probably the most prominent, but there are others who say, You know what, >>But >>get that. Just hire people just like you will be able to go faster, ramp up more quickly, hit escape velocity. It's natural. And that's what you should dio. Why is that not the right approach? Why is diversity both course socially responsible, but also good for business? >>For Amazon, we think about diversity as something that is essential toe how we think about innovation. And so, Dave, you know, as you know, from listening to some of the announcements I reinvent, we launched a lot of new ideas, new concepts and new services in AWS and just bringing that lends down to storage U. S. Tree has been reinventing itself every year since we launched in 2000 and six. PBS introduced the first Son on the Cloud late last year and continues to reinvent how customers think about block storage. We would not be able Thio. Look at a product in a different way and think to ourselves Not just what is the legacy system dio in a data center today. But how do we want to build this new distributed system in a way that helps customers achieve not just what they're doing today, but what they want to do in five and 10 years? You can't get that innovative mindset without bringing different perspectives to the table. And so we strongly believe in hiring people who are from underrepresented groups and whether that's gender or it's related racial equality or if its geographic, uh, diversity and bringing them in tow have the conversation. Because those divers viewpoints inform how we can innovate at all levels in a W s >>right. And so I really appreciate the perspectives on that, and we've had a zoo. You probably know the Cube has been, you know, a very big advocate of diversity, you know, generally, but women in tech Specifically, we participated a lot. And you know, I often ask this question is, you know, as a smaller company, uh, I and some of my other colleagues in in small business Sometimes we struggle. Um and so my question is, how >>how do >>you go beyond What's your advice for going beyond, you know, the good old boys network? I think its large companies like AWS and the big players you've got a responsibility to that. You can put somebody in charge and make it you know, their full time job. How should smaller companies, um, that are largely white, male dominated? How should they become more diverse? What should they do? Thio increase that diversity? >>Well, I think the place to start his voice. A lot of what we try to dio is make sure that the underrepresented voice is heard. And so, Dave, any small business owner of any industry can encourage voice for your under represented or your unheard populations. And honestly, it is a simple as being in a meeting and looking around that table, we're on your screen as it were and asking yourself Who hasn't talked? Who hasn't weighed in particularly if the debate is contentious or even animated. And you will see, particularly if you note this. Over time you will see that there may be somebody and whether it's an underrepresented, a group or its ah woman whose early career or it's it's not. It's just a member of your team who happens to be a white male to who's not being hurt. And you can ask that person for their perspective. And that is a step that every one of us can and should do, which is asked toe, have everyone's voice at the table, toe listen and to weigh in on it. So I think that is something everyone should dio. I think if you are a member of an underrepresented groups, as for example, I'm Vietnamese American and I'm the female in Tech. I think it z something to think about how you can make sure that you're always taking that bold step forward. And it's one of the topics that we covered it at reinvent. We had a great discussion with a group of women CEOs, and a lot of it we talked about is being bolt, taking the challenge of being bold in tough situations, and that is an important thing, I think, for anybody to keep in mind, but especially for members of underrepresented groups, because sometimes Dave, that bold step that you kind of think of is like, Oh, I don't know if I should ask for that promotion or I don't know if I should volunteer for that project It's not. It's not a big ask, but it's big in your head. And so if you can internalize as a member of some, you know, a group that maybe hasn't heard or seen as much how you can take those bold challenges and step forward and learn, maybe fell also because that's how you learn. Then that is a way toe. Also have people learn and develop and become leaders in whatever industry it ISS. It's >>great advice, and I reminds me of, I mean, I think most of us can relate to that my land, because when we started in the industry, we may be timid. You didn't want to necessarily speak up, and I think it's incumbent upon those in a position of power. And by the way, power might just be running a meeting agenda to maybe calling those folks that are. Maybe it's not diversity of gender or, you know, our or race. And maybe it's just the underrepresented. Maybe that's a good way to start building muscle memory. So that's unique advice that I hadn't heard before. So thank you very much for that. Appreciate it. And, uh hey, listen, thanks so much for coming on the Cuban cloud. Uh, we're out of time and and really, always appreciate your perspectives. And you're doing a great job, and thank you. >>Great. Thank you, Dave. Thanks for having me and have a great day. >>All right? And keep it right, everybody. You're watching the cube on cloud right back.

>>thank you very much for this opportunity to talk about Stamp with a bio design program, which is entrepreneurship education for the medical devices. My name is Julia Key Can. Oh, I am Japanese. I have seen the United States since two doesn't want on the more than half of my life after graduating from medical school is in the United States. I hope I can contribute to make them be reached between Japan that you were saying right I did the research in the period of medical devices with a patient all over the world today is my batteries met their country finished medication stamp of the city. Yeah, North Korea academia, but also a wrong. We in the industry sectors sometimes tried to generate new product which can generate revenue from their own research outward, it is explained by three steps. The first one is the debut river, which is the harbor Wrong research output to the idea which can be product eventually. That they are hard, though, is the best body, which is a hot Arboria. From idea to commercial for the other one is that we see which is a harder to make a martial hold up to become a big are revenue generating products for the academia that passed the heart is a critical on the essential to make a research output to the idea. Yeah, they're two different kind of squash for the developing process in the health care innovation, Why's bio and by all the farmer under the other one is medical device regarding the disciplining method is maybe in mechanical engineering. Electrical engineering on the medical under surgical by Obama is mainly chemical engineering, computer science, biology and genetics. However, very important difference off these to be the innovation process. Medic is suitable on these digital innovation and by Obama, is suitable discovery process needs. Yeah, in general transformation of medical research between the aroma academia output to the commercial product in the medical field is called bench to bed. It means from basically such to critical applications. But it is your bio on the path. Yeah, translation. Medical research for medical devices is better. Bench on back to bed, which means quicker Amit needs to bench on back to Greek application. The difference off the process is the same as the difference off the commercialization. Yeah, our goal is to innovate the newer devices for patient over the war. Yeah, yeah, there are two process to do innovation. One is technology push type of innovation. The other one is news, full type of innovation. Ignore the push stop Innovation is coming from research laboratory. It is suitable for the farm on the bios. Happy type of innovation. New, useful or used driven type of type of innovation is suitable for medical devices. Either Take this topic of innovation or useful type of innovation. It is important to have Mini's. We should think about what? It's waas Yeah, in 2001 stop for the Cube, API has started to stop with Bio Design program, which is on entrepreneurship education for medical devices. Our mission is educated on empowering helps technology, no based innovators on the reading, the transition to a barrier to remain a big innovation ecosystem. Our vision is to be a global leader in advancing Hearst technology innovation to improve lives everywhere. There are three steps in our process. Off innovation, identify invent on England. Yeah, yeah. The most important step is the cluster, which is I didn't buy. I didn't buy a well characterized needs is the Vienna off a grating vision. Most of the value off medical device development is due to Iraq Obina unmet needs. So we focused in this gated by creates the most are the mosque to find on the Civic on appropriate. Yeah, our barrels on the student Hickory World in March, disparate 19 that ideally include individual, which are background in many thing engineering on business. Yeah, how to find our needs. Small team will go to the hospital or clinic or environment to offer them the healthcare providers with naive eyes. The team focused. You look to keep all the um, it needs not technology. This method is senior CTO. It's a rocket car approach which can be applied all that design, thinking the team will generate at least 200 needs from economic needs. Next stick to identify Pace is to select the best. Amit Knees were used for different aspect, which can about it the nominees. These background current existing solutions market size on the stakeholders. Once we pick up ur madness from 200 nominees, they can move to the invention pates. Finally, they can't be the solution many people tend to invent on at the beginning base without carefree evaluating its unmet knees to result in a better tend to pouring love. Their whole idea, even amid NIS, is not what this is. Why most of the medical device innovation fail due to the lack off unmet needs. To avoid this Peter Hall, our approach is identify good needs. First on invention is the sex to generate the idea wrong. Unmet knees. We will use seven Rules off race Tony B B zero before judgment encourage wild ideas built on the ideas off. Others. Go Conte. One conversation time. Stay focused on the topic. The brainstorming is like association game. Somebody's idea can stimulate the others ideas. After generating many ideas, the next step is sleeping of idea whether use five different Dustin to embody the ideas. Intellectual property regulatory. Remember National Business Model on technology How, after this election step, we can have the best solution with system it needs, and finally team will go to the implementation pace. This place is more business oriented mothers. The strategy off business implementations on the business planning. Yeah, yeah, students want more than 50 starting up are spinning off from by design program. Let me show one example This is a case of just reputations. If patient your chest pain, most of that patient go to family doctor and trust. The first are probably Dr before the patient to General Securities. General Card, obviously for the patient Director, Geologist, Director, API geologist will make a reservation. Horta uses it. Test patient will come to the clinic people for devices in machine on his chest. Well, what? Two days? Right? That patient will visit clinic to put all the whole decency After a few days off. Analysis patient Come back to Dr to hear the result Each step in his money to pay. This is a minute, Knees. This is a rough sketch off the solutions. The product name is die. A patch on it can save about $620. Part maybe outpatient right here. >>Yeah, yeah. Life is stressful. We all depend on our heart with life source of our incredible machine. The body, however, sometimes are hard Need to check up. Perhaps you felt dizzy heart racing or know someone who has had a serious heart problem The old fashioned monitors that used to get from most doctors or bulky And you can't wear them exercising or in the shower. If appropriate for you, sudden life will provide you the eye rhythm. Zero patch to buy five inch band aid like patch would. You can apply to your chest in the comfort of your own home or in the gym. It will monitor your heart rate for up to 14 days. You never have to come into a doctor's office as you mail back. Patched us shortly after you were receiving. Easy to understand report of your heart activity, along with recommendations from a heart specialists to understand the next steps in your heart. Health sudden life bringing heart monitoring to you. >>This is from the TV broadcasting become Ah, this is a core value we can stamping on his breast. He has a connotation of the decent died. Now the company names Iris is in the public market cap off. This company is more than six billion di parts is replacing grasp all or that you see the examination. However, our main product is huge. The product lifecycle Very divisive, recent being it's. But if we can educate the human decision oil because people can build with other people beyond space and yeah, young broader stop on by design education is now runs the media single on Japan. He doesn't 15 PBS probably star visited Stamp of the diversity and Bang. He announced that Japan, by design, will runs with vampires. That problem? Yeah, Japan Barzan program has started a University of Tokyo Osaka University and we've asked corroborating with Japanese government on Japanese medical device Industry s and change it to that. Yeah, this year that it's batch off Japan better than parachute on. So far more than five. Starting up as being that's all. Thank you very much for your application.

>>live from Stanford University. It's the queue covering Stanford women in Data Science 2020. Brought to you by Silicon Angle Media >>and welcome to the Cube. I'm your host Sonia category, and we're live at Stanford University, covering the fifth annual Woods Women in Data Science conference. Joining us today is Tilapia Williams, who's the associate professor of mathematics at Harvey Mudd College and host of Nova Wonders at PBS to leave a welcome to the Cappy to be here. Thanks for having me. So you have a lot of rules. So let's first tell us about being an associate professor at Harvey Mudd. >>Yeah, I've been at Harvey Mudd now for 11 years, so it's been really a lot of fun in the math department, but I'm a statistician by training, so I teach a lot of courses and statistics and data science and things like that. >>Very cool. And you're also a host of API s show called Novo Wonders. >>Yeah, that came about a couple of years ago. Folks at PBS reached out they had seen my Ted talk, and they said, Hey, it looks like you could be fund host of this science documentary shows So, Nova Wonders, is a six episode Siri's. It kind of takes viewers on a journey of what the cutting edge questions and science are. Um, so I got to host the show with a couple other co host and really think about like, you know, what are what are the animals saying? And so we've got some really fun episodes to do. What's the universe made of? Was one of them what's living inside of us. That was definitely a gross win. Todo figure out all the different micro organisms that live inside our body. So, yeah, it's been funded in hopes that show as well. >>And you talk about data science and AI and all that stuff on >>Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, one of the episodes. Can we build a Brain was dealt with a lot of data, big data and artificial intelligence, and you know, how good can we get? How good can computers get and really sort of compared to what we see in the movies? We're a long way away from that, but it seems like you know we're getting better every year, building technology that is truly intelligent, >>and you gave a talk today about mining for your own personal data. So give us some highlights from your talk. Yeah, >>so that talks sort of stemmed out of the Ted talk that I gave on owning your body's data. And it's really challenging people to think about how they can use data that they collect about their bodies to help make better health decisions on DSO ways that you can use, like your temperature data or your heart rate. Dina. Or what is data say over time? What does it say about your body's health and really challenging the audience to get excited about looking at that data? We have so many devices that collect data automatically for us, and often we don't pause on enough to actually look at that historical data. And so that was what the talk was about today, like, here's what you can find when you actually sit down and look at that data. >>What's the most important data you think people should be collecting about themselves? >>Well, definitely not. Your weight is. I don't >>want to know what that >>is. Um, it depends, you know, I think for women who are in the fertile years of life taking your daily waking temperature can tell you when your body's fertile. When you're ovulating, it can. So that information could give women during that time period really critical information. But in general, I think it's just a matter of being aware of of how your body is changing. So for some people, maybe it's your blood pressure or your blood sugar. You have high blood pressure or high blood sugar. Those things become really critical to keep an eye on. And, um, and I really encourage people whatever data they take, too, the active in the understanding of an interpretation of the data. It's not like if you take this data, you'll be healthy radio. You live to 100. It's really a matter of challenging people to own the data that they have and get excited about understanding the data that they are taking. So >>absolutely put putting people in charge of their >>own bodies. That's >>right. >>And actually speaking about that in your Ted talk, you mentioned how you were. Your doctor told you to have a C section and you looked at the data and he said, No, I'm gonna have this baby naturally. So tell us more about that. >>Yes, you should always listen to your medical pressures. But in this case, I will say that it was It was definitely more of a dialogue. And so I wasn't just sort of trying to lean on the fact that, like, I have a PhD in statistics and I know data, he was really kind of objectively with the on call doctor at the time, looking at the data >>and talking about it. >>And this doctor was this is his first time seeing me. And so I think it would have been different had my personal midwife or my doctor been telling me that. But this person would have only looked at this one chart and was it was making a decision without thinking about my historical data. And so I tried to bring that to the conversation and say, like, let me tell you more about you know, my body and this is pregnancy number three like, here's how my body works. And I think this person in particular just wasn't really hearing any of that. It was like, Here's my advice. We just need to do this. I'm like, >>Oh, >>you know, and so is gently as possible. I tried to really share that data. Um, and then it got to the point where it was sort of like either you're gonna do what I say or you're gonna have to sign a waiver. And we were like, Well, to sign the waiver that cost quite a buzz in the hospital that day. But we came back and had a very successful labor and delivery. And so, yeah, >>I think >>that at the time, >>But, >>you know, with that caveat that you should listen to what, your doctors >>Yeah. I mean, there's really interesting, like, what's the boundary between, Like what the numbers tell you and what professional >>tells me Because I don't have an MD. Right. And so, you know, I'm cautious not to overstep that, but I felt like in that case, the doctor wasn't really even considering the data that I was bringing. Um, I was we were actually induced with our first son, but again, that was more of a conversation, more of a dialogue. Here's what's happening here is what we're concerned about and the data to really back it up. And so I felt like in that case, like Yeah, I'm happy to go with your suggestion, but I could number three. It was just like, No, this isn't really >>great. Um, so you also wrote a book called Power In Numbers. The Rebel Women of Mathematics. So what inspired you to write this book? And what do you hope readers take away from it? >>A couple different things. I remember when I saw the movie hidden figures. And, um, I spent three summers at NASA working at JPL, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. And so I had this very fun connection toe, you know, having worked at NASA. And, um, when this movie came out and I'm sitting there watching it and I'm, like ball in just crying, like I didn't know that there were black women who worked at NASA like, before me, you know, um and so it felt it felt it was just so transformative for me to see these stories just sort of unfold. And I thought, like, Well, why didn't I learn about these women growing up? Like imagine, Had I known about Katherine Johnsons of the world? Maybe that would have really inspired Not just me, but, you know, thinking of all the women of color who aren't in mathematics or who don't see themselves working at at NASA. And so for me, the book was really a way to leave that legacy to the generation that's coming up and say, like, there have been women who've done mathematics, um, and statistics and data science for years, and they're women who are doing it now. So a lot of the about 1/3 of the book are women who were still here and, like, active in the field and doing great things. And so I really wanted to highlight sort of where we've been, where we've been, but also where we're going and the amazing women that are doing work in it. And it's very visual. So some things like, Oh my gosh, >>women in math >>It is really like a very picturesque book of showing this beautiful images of the women and their mathematics and their work. And yes, I'm really proud of it. >>That's awesome. And even though there is like greater diversity now in the tech industry, there's still very few African American women, especially who are part of this industry. So what advice would you give to those women who who feel like they don't belong. >>Yeah, well, a they really do belong. Um, and I think it's also incumbent of people in the industry to sort of recognize ways that they could be advocate for women, and especially for women of color, because often it takes someone who's already at the table to invite other people to the table. And I can't just walk up like move over, get out the way I'm here now. But really being thoughtful about who's not representative, how do we get those voices here? And so I think the onus is often mawr on. People who occupy those spaces are ready to think about how they can be more intentional in bringing diversity in other spaces >>and going back to your talk a little bit. Um uh, how how should people use their data? >>Yeah, so I mean, I think, um, the ways that we've used our data, um, have been to change our lifestyle practices. And so, for example, when I first got a Fitbit, um, it wasn't really that I was like, Oh, I have a goal. It was just like I want something to keep track of my steps And then I look at him and I feel like, Oh, gosh, I didn't even do anything today. And so I think having sort of even that baseline data gave me a place to say, Okay, let me see if I hit 10 stuff, you know, 10,000 >>steps in a day or >>and so, in some ways, having the data allows you to set goals. Some people come in knowing, like, I've got this goal. I want to hit it. But for me, it was just sort of like, um and so I think that's also how I've started to use additional data. So when I take my heart rate data or my pulse, I'm really trying to see if I can get lower than how it was before. So the push is really like, how is my exercise and my diet changing so that I can bring my resting heart rate down? And so having the data gives me a gold up, restore it, and it also gives me that historical information to see like, Oh, this is how far I've come. Like I can't stop there, you know, >>that's a great social impact. >>That's right. Yeah, absolutely. >>and, um, Do you think that so in terms of, like, a security and privacy point of view, like if you're recording all your personal data on these devices, how do you navigate that? >>Yeah, that's a tough one. I mean, because you are giving up that data privacy. Um, I usually make sure that the data that I'm allowing access to this sort of data that I wouldn't care if it got published on the cover of you know, the New York Times. Maybe I wouldn't want everyone to see what my weight is, but, um, and so in some ways, while it is my personal data, there's something that's a bit abstract from it. Like it could be anyone's data as opposed to, say, my DNA. Like I'm not going to do a DNA test. You know, I don't want my data to be mapped it out there for the world. Um, but I think that that's increasingly become a concern because people are giving access to of their information to different companies. It's not clear how companies would use that information, so if they're using my data to build a product will make a product better. You know we don't see any world from that way. We don't have the benefit of it, but they have access to our data. And so I think in terms of data, privacy and data ethics, there's a huge conversation to have around that. We're only kind >>of at the beginning of understanding what that is. Yeah, >>well, thank you so much for being on the Cube. Really having you here. Thank you. Thanks. So I'm Sonia to Gary. Thanks so much for watching the cube and stay tuned for more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>>Live from Las Vegas. It's the cube covering splunk.com 19 brought to you by Splunk. >>Hey, welcome back. Everyone's the cubes coverage here in Las Vegas for Splunk's dot com I'm John, the host of the cube. This is Splunk's 10th year user conference is the cube seventh year. We've been riding on the same wave with Splunk over the years and just watching the phenomenal growth and changes at the level of data at scale we've been covering. We can remember I said from day one data at the center of this, not just log files is now gone. Beyond that, we're here with Carrie Pailin, the CMO, chief marketing officer for Splunk. Welcome to the cube. Thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. It's great to be here. The folks that know us know about spunk. Notice the color changes in the background, the popping kink, burning yellow, orange underneath, new branding. You're new to Splunk story, career in technology. Um, this is exciting. And then portfolio, there's all the news is a phenomenal good news flow. >>Very relevant, right on Mark. Data is now creating value and datas like software. It's enabling value. Splunk software and solution platform has done that and this new new grounds to take. But you're now setting the agenda for the brand and the company tell us, I mean, it's a marketer's dream. What can I say? It's a, you know, I joined nine months ago and when I was interviewing for the role, I remember Doug Merritt saying to me, Hey, you know, we might be the only $2 billion enterprise software company that nobody's ever heard of. Amy said, I want to go solve for that. Right? Like the folks who know Splunk and our customers, they love us, our product is awesome and our culture is awesome, but the world doesn't know about us yet and we haven't invested there. So I want to go take the brand to the next level. >>And I want the world to understand what data use cases are out there that are so broad and so vast. And we believe that every problem ultimately can be solved through data or almost every problem. And we wanted to set the stage for that with this new brand campaign. Yeah. Just on a personal note. And following the journey of Splunk, a scrappy startup goes public and growth modes. When you're a growth Moe is hard to kind of lay down foundational things like branding and whatnot. But now sponsor leader, we did a poll within our community and for cloud and on premise security, Splunk's the number one supplier for just laws with workloads. And then now cloud security is kicking in. So the relationship to Amazon, Google cloud platform and Azure is a critical part of Splunk is now the leader. So leaders have to do things like make sure that their brand's good. >>This is what you're doing. Take us behind the scenes of the branding, the things you chose and data for everything. Yeah. D the little small nuance data to everything. Um, and the reason behind that was we believe you can bring and we can enable our customers to bring data to every question, every decision and every action to create meaningful outcomes. And the use cases are vast and enormous. We talked about some of them before the show started, but helping look at global law enforcement, get ahead of human trafficking through SPOHNC and spelunking. What's going on across all sorts of data sources, right? Helping zone Haven, which is our first investment from Splunk ventures, which startup that's actually helping firefighters figure out burn burn patterns with fire wildfires. But also when temperatures and humidity change where sensors are, they can alert firefighters 30 to 45 minutes earlier than they would usually do that. >>And then they can also help influence evacuation patterns. I mean it's, it's remarkable what folks are doing with data today and it's really at the, at the core of solving some of the world's biggest issues. It's hard to tell a story for a company that solves some of the use cases. Yes. Because depending on who you talk to, that's the company. This is what we should be telling them. I know you do this over here, so when you're horizontally creating this kind of value, yeah, it's hard to kind of brand that because it will get a lot of opinions because you're doing a lot of different things. There's not like one vertical. That's right. So this is the challenge that most B to B marketers will fall on the trip. We do this because we have a lot of customers in this one segment. But yes, you guys are hitting so much more. >>How did you deal with that? Ha, we had a lot of talks about it, a lot of discussions, a lot of debate and I love diversity of thought. It usually drives the right outcomes, but we had a lot of this, this is not an easy answer. If it had been, it would have been done years ago and we really talked about setting the stage for where, you know, I love the Wayne Gretzky quote about skate to where the puck is going and that's what he always did and that's why he was so good. We believe there will ultimately be a data platform of platforms and we believe Splunk is that platform, right? And so that's where the industry's going. We wanted to cast a net that would take us there so that this is the beginning of a brand evolution for us and not a total rebrand, but it's setting the stage for a category creation that we believe is coming in the industry. >>A few. You guys are smart and I think my observation would be looking at some of our 10 years of reporting and sharing some on digital is that all the conversations around data is impacting the real world. Yes. You see Mark Zuckerberg and on Capitol Hill having the answer to the date of debacles, he has cybersecurity attacks, national security, um, ransomware taking down cities and towns. This is a real impact. Forest fires disrupting rolling blackouts. So technology's impacting real world lives. That's right. This is really new to tech. I mean usually behind the scenes, you know, coding, but not anymore. We're the front lines of real societal, global. Yes. Jade is at the forefront and it's really exciting. It's also frightening, right? Because we believe data presents the greatest opportunity for humanity, but also some of the greatest threats. And so hence our ability to really dig in on data security. >>It's important to do that while we're actually also surfacing data to solve real world issues. You've been in the industry for a while and when you came to Splunk, boasts a couple of things that surprised you as you, you had some thoughts going in, you knew Splunk. Yes. What are some of the things that surprised you when you got here? Oh, I mean, in such a good way. A few things, you know. Well, here's the story. Three days into being at Splunk, my dad got very ill and I wasted him to Austin for heart surgery and he actually didn't make it. Um, and so it's been a rough year to say the least. And uh, the way that Splunk's culture, I knew about it before I came, but the way that this company treated me, like I had been here 10 years, uh, when I'd really only been an employee three days was something I'll never forget. >>And it's, it's special. Um, and so I believe that companies are successful if they are smart and healthy and in Splunk has the healthy and droves and not just the compassion and the empathy, but you know, a very transparent culture. We debate things, we talk about things, we support each other. We are accountable. And I believe that's a big part of why we've grown so fast because our culture is incredibly healthy and very, um, collaborative as a team. I'm sorry for your loss. Thank you. Um, you mentioned the culture is a big part of Splunk. Yes. In talking to some of the folks that spoke over the years, there's no, I will, I'll totally say this. There's no shortage of opinions, so have not volunteered. These are robustness. Yes. Diversity of thoughts, very actionable communities. How do you, um, how do you look at that? Because that's a, could be a force, a force multiplier. >>Yes. For the brand. How are you going to tie in to everything with the community? How are you going to harness that energy? Yeah. So it's coming and the reality is data to everything is actually a set up to tell the stories of everyone who is using data today. And so the community is going to be one of the first places we go to surface. Some of those amazing stories. Um, and some of the things you see here at the show are actually showcasing that in the keynote today we heard from zone Haman and Porsche and so many others around their use cases. But the community is where it all begins and that's the lifeblood of our sort of spunkiness and a something that we don't take for granted once. One second. Sorry about the Barack Obama. Yeah. Directions with him and his interest in Splunk. Yeah. So we had our big re rebrand a reveal last month we had an event and it was for C suite type of folks. >>That was a very intimate event and we wanted somebody to keynote that and headline that that really brought to life the whole notion that you can bring data to everything. And president Obama was the first POTUS that actually use data in his campaign strategy. He's very open about that. He's the first president to appoint a chief data scientist to the white house. He's actually exceptionally geeky and very data-driven. And so when we asked him to come and headline this, he actually was really excited about it. Um, and you know, in, in great fashion, his communications team was really strict on curating the questions that we had for him. And he was so cute. He showed up to the event and he said, look, um, I'm so thrilled to be here. I love what you guys are doing and you can ask me anything. It's just like ready to go. >>And he was so wonderful and teed up this, this notion of day bringing data to everything so brilliantly. He's kicking, dig and be ad live all the time. He's very colorful as well as personality. Yes. He's kind of nerdy and you know, he was very open and OpenGov too. One of the things that I remember and when big data really started rolling into the scene around 2009, 2010 yes. You saw that opening up data registries from cities and towns and actually created innovation from health care medical supplies? Yes. Yes. So this has been a big part of it. Huge. You guys are doing some things out here and I see the exhibits we're using the day you're doing demos. How do you see you guys helping society with that? Because if you get to the next level, you've got some great use cases. Yes, the public sector is a big part of some news here. >>Fed ramp is one little technicality, but you got some certification, but government's modernizing now. So you know post Obama, you're seeing modernization of procurement roll with cloud, certainly cyber security. Amazon with the CIA, department of defense, role of data in the military and public sector. Yes, education. This is going to be a disruptive enabler for faults on the public impact. I mean, look, there's, you know, Doug touched on this a little bit this morning, the reality in our press conference, but the reality is if you do it right, opening up datasets to communities of people that can do better together and you can get this collective momentum going. For instance, in healthcare, I mean I'm a little bit of a health care nerd and I don't know if you've watched the PBS special on the Mayo clinic, it's spectacular. But one of the reasons the Mayo has been amazing for years is because their doctors all work off the same systems in every discipline in that facility and they can learn more holistically about a patient. >>And I think about the impact that data could have if we could open up those data sets across every health provider for one person or the same illness with every major institution across the U S collaborating and sharing and what we could actually do to make real impact and strides against some of the diseases that are really crippling society today. So I think that the good that we can do with data, if we open up those data sets and do it in a way that, that it's safe. It's remarkable the progress we can make. You know, one of the from machine learning has been a big success story. Machine learning toolkit. Customers are raving about it. Opening up the data creates better machine learning. AI creates better business value. That's right. That's that part of how you guys see things rolling out. Sure. I mean, as a marketer we use AI today and it's really more machine learning. >>It's sad pattern recognition. But we use, uh, you know, my last stand as a CMO, the last company I was at, we use an AI bot to augment our sales headcount for following up on leads. And it looked like a human being. I mean, same thing for Splunk. I mean, the more we can see pattern recognition, proffer up insights, the better off we are to help out our customers. And so Tim Teles team is driving that hard and fast into our innovation curve with everything that we do. Innovation culture, big time here, right? Huge, huge and one of the reasons I came to Splunk is when I interviewed with Tim and I said, Hey, how are you doing on recruiting engineers in the Valley? We all know that that is liquid gold, and he said that he had hired 370 odd engineers in less than a year and from really big brands like Airbnb and I thought, all right, there's some really cool innovation going on here. >>If some of the best engineers in the Valley really want to come work here and they want to work for a great leader, and Tim and his team are that. so.com is 10 years now this year has been riding the wave together. It's been fun. Your first, my very first dotcom. Yes. Your thoughts on this, on this community, this event. Share your, your thoughts. I mean I'm blown away and this is a team sport. I'm so proud of the events team, the creative team, the sales teams, everybody who's come together to make this event so spectacular. It's just sort of mind numbing that a company of our size can put on such an experience for our user community, but I'm also thrilled with the engagement. We have over 300 sessions this week and most of them are user and customer use, case driven and the stories they are telling are magnificent. >>They're doing this all with Splunk, so it's pretty special. And the ecosystem and the app showcase is pretty hot here. You're seeing real applications, people writing code on top of Splunk? Yes, it's, it's, I'm sorry I don't use this word often. I'm 48 but it's rad. It's so cool. Yes. Harry, thanks so much for coming on the cube and sharing your insights. Absolutely. Final thoughts for the people who aren't here at the event, watching on camera, what, how would you encapsulate.com this year? What's the top story that needs to be told? I mean, look, the reality is that we are bringing data to way more than just security and it ops, which has been our core use cases forever, and they will continue to be, but folks are that are not incredibly data literate or through Splunk bringing data to everything and solving some big gnarly issues in the world. And it's pretty exciting stuff. So check us out. All right. Thanks. Gnarly red. Cool. I need a surf board, Jerry. Thanks for coming on Friday. Thank you so much. Coverage here@thetenth.com I'm Jennifer with the cube, bringing you all the action here in Las Vegas. Three days of cubed wall to wall coverage. We've got one more after this short break.

>> From the Amazon Meeting Center in Downtown Seattle, it's theCUBE. Covering Imagine: A Better World, A Global Education Conference sponsored by Amazon Web Services. >> Hey welcome back everybody, Jeff Frick here with theCUBE. We're in Seattle, Washington, at the AWS, I think it's called the Meeting Space. There's a lot of AWS buildings around here. It's AWS Imagine: Education, first year of the conference, about 900 registered folks, 22 countries represented. Really excited, this thing is going to grow. We've seen it before with AWS. We saw it with Summit: Reinvent. AWS Public Sector. We're excited to be here for the very first time and our next guest is Dr. Scott Ralls. He is the President of Northern Virginia Community College. Scott, great to see you. >> Thank you, it's good to be here Jeff, appreciate it. >> A lot of mentions of NOVA, and that's you guys. >> That's us, yeah. >> That's not the PBS programming. You guys are kind of out front on some of these initiatives, with 3sa and AWS Public Sector. I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about the Veterans' Apprenticeship Program, which has been in place for a little while. >> Just a little bit about NOVA, we're a community college just right outside of the Virginia suburbs of D.C. We're the, I'd say, the biggest college that nobody's heard of outside of our region. We have about 100,000 students. >> 100,000? >> 100,000. >> And how many campuses? >> Six campuses. >> For us, our niche is information technology. It's where the internet runs through our region, and so that cloud computing, we have the highest concentration of cloud computing cyber degrees. That's why the AWS partnership is so key for us, because it's about the opportunity for our students. And for AWS, it's about filling those jobs. Also, we have a lot of employers in our region that hire based on AWS credentials. AWS is the backbone for them. That's why for us as a community college, being jobs-focused, filling that gap, that's why it's key for us. >> That's Tyson's corner, right? That's where AOL started-- >> That's right, that's right, that's right. >> and there's a whole history. >> You've got all the cyber right around there. One writer has said that we're the bullseye of the internet. It's a unique place, but it's a unique opportunity for our students. >> Right, and the smart money's on the AWS second headquarter being in that neighborhood, but we don't-- >> Knock on wood. >> Knock on wood. We would love to see that. >> I'm just curious then if you've been educating people to get jobs in this IT sector, how you've seen that evolve over time? Because it used to be there were a lot of sys admin jobs or a lot of jobs that now automation and cloud is taking away. On the other hand, there's a lot of new jobs that the technology's enabling, like happens every time. How are you seeing the landscape change? >> I really think that's the way it has been. 30 years ago, when I was breaking into this workforce and world, that same conversation was going on. Automation was going to take all the jobs. There's been all kinds of new opportunities that emerge and that's the same thing we see, and certainly in Northern Virginia we see that so, for us, as a community college, we're doing it two ways. You asked about the apprenticeship program, that was our first entree with AWS so we are one of their primary training providers, education providers for apprenticeship. Those are the veterans and others that are hired by AWS, they come to our college for the education component, the certifications, the IT skills. The second part for us is the new cloud degree which we introduced in February, which is a two-year, first cloud degree in the country that will help other students who are not those coming through apprenticeship to also break into this important area. >> This is an associate's degree like all the other degrees you guys offer >> That's right. as a two-year program. I'd be just curious, what are some of the curricula? What are some of the core classes that they take that are part of that degree? >> One of the things that we've been doing, we use a lot of data analytics on the workforce side that others do not so part of it's our engagement, talking with the AWS leaders about what's needed. Part of it's also watching what AW, what credentials, what skills AWS is hiring for and then others who use the AWS platform, so you will see certain types of credentials that are built in, security plus, Linux plus, AWS Solutions Architect built in. Also even programming language, it's like Python because of its importance in that regard. We kind of use that as the, using that intelligence, if you will, to be able to build out what the degree should look like. Because we're paying attention to how AWS hires and how the IT users of AWS, how they're hiring and what the skills are that they're looking for. >> How hard is it to get that through at the school, to actually have an associate degree based on cloud? Were they receptive of the idea, did everybody see it coming, was it a hard push? >> We did it within one year, we did it within one year. >> Did it in one year? >> Within one year. >> Everything in the cloud happens fast. >> We moved fast on this. It is built off of our IT degree, so it's a specialization of that degree, so it was really, I think what made it move faster for us was two things. One is AWS has a great program called AWS Educate, which essentially provides a lot of the curriculum content. It's the kind of things if you were starting a degree, you would have to go out and create on your own. Having that rich content. Other partners, like Columbus State, who is also, Santa Monica, others that are working on cloud degrees and we can partner with each other. Then having the apprenticeship as sort of a North Star to tack on with respect to how companies are hiring and what skills are needed. That allowed us to move fast. >> Beyond Educate and the actual materials and curriculum materials, what does partnering with AWS do for you guys? What has that enabled you to do as part of this program that you couldn't do or it'd be a whole lot harder? >> Not everybody looks at community colleges. Being partnered with AWS, who they are, is key for us, it's important for us. I think it's also they recognize how important it is for them. Not everybody recognizes that. One thing that's unique for us as a community college, we have a lot of students who come to us who already have four-year degrees to get that skills part. It's almost like a graduate school. The apprentices are that way. Most of the apprentices already have four-year degrees in computer science, and we're providing that finishing piece. I think AWS sees in us how to broaden the, to scale, to fill that talent gap. I really think the only way you're going to diversify the talent gap and scale the talent gap is through institutions like ours. >> It's really an interesting statement on the role of community colleges in this whole refactoring of education. One, as you said, a lot of people have four-year degrees, so this concept of ongoing education, continue to get new skills as the opportunities dictate. Have that very specific knowledge and these certifications that are not Intro Philosophy or English Lit 205. These are very specific things that people can apply to their job today. >> The curriculum changes so fast, so we have to be willing to change, our instructors have to be willing to get that new thing. The history curriculum doesn't change that quickly, but the IT curriculum and particularly as it relates to cloud and cyber and other areas. If we're not doing that, then we're out of the ballgame, and when we're out of the ballgame that means our students are out of the ballgame, and that's what it's all about. >> When you come to an event like this, what are you hoping to get out of an event like this? Flew across the country, unfortunately through all the terrible smoke and stuff we have on the west coast. What are some of the things you hope to gain here with some of the other educators? >> One thing that always happens at AWS events is the connections that you make. Part of it is you do hear people, like we heard this morning, that you wouldn't have the opportunity to hear before, on machine learning and other areas. A lot of it's about the connections, so actually tomorrow morning a lot of the community colleges and others who are creating cloud programs will be working together tomorrow. AWS does a great job of maximizing our time, so we're part of the program, but we're also breaking off to really partner and that allows us all to move quicker. When we can build off of each other and then have the resources like AWS makes available to us. >> Sounds like you're moving pretty quick-- >> We're trying, we're trying. >> To get all that done and to get it done in a year. >> We have to keep up with where they're going. >> It's not what academic institutions are generally known for, speed and change. >> We're not your average academic institution. >> There ya go, alright. He's Dr. Scott Ralls,-- >> Thank you, 'preciate it. thanks for taking a few minutes with ya. I'm Jeff Frick, you're watching theCUBE, we're at AWS public sector, Imagine, in downtown Seattle. Thanks for watching, catch ya next time. (electronic tones)

>> Announcer: Live from the Moscone Center, it's The Cube covering AWS Summit San Francisco 2018. Brought to you by Amazon Web Services. >> Welcome back to our exclusive Cube coverage here at AWS, Amazon Web Services Summit 2018 in San Francisco. I'm John Furrier with my cohost, Stu Miniman. We have a special guest. We have an influencer, authority figure on AWS, Corey Quinn, editor of Last Week in AWS, also has got a podcast called Screaming, >> Corey: In the Cloud. >> Screaminginthecloud.com just launched. Corey, great to have you on. Thanks for joining us. >> No, thank you for letting me indulge my ongoing love affair with the sound of my own voice. (laughing) >> Well we love to have you on and again, love the commentary on the keynote on Twitter. Lot of action, we were in the front row, kind of getting all the scene. Okay, if you're going to write the newsletter next week for what happened this week, if this week was last week, next week, what's your take on this? Because again, Amazon keeps pounding the freight train that's just the cadence of AWF announcements. But they're laying it out clear. They're putting up the numbers. They're putting out the architecture. They're putting out machine learning. It's more than developers right now. What's your analysis, what's your take of what's happening this week? >> I think that certain trends are continuing to evolve that we've seen before where it used to be that if you're picking an entire technology that you're going to bet your business on, what you're going to build on next. It used to be which vendor do I pick, which software do I pick? Now even staying purely within the AWS ecosystem, that question still continues to grow. Oh so I want to use a database, great. I have 12 of them that I can choose between. And whatever I pick, the consensus is unanimous, I'm wrong. So there needs to be, I still think there needs to be some thoughtful analysis done as far as are these services solving different problems. If so, what are the differentiating points? Right now, I think the consensus emerges that when you look into a product or service offering from AWS, the first reaction all of us feel is to some extent confusion. I'm lost, I'm scared. I don't really know what's going on. And whatever I'm about to do, I feel like I'm about to do it badly. >> Yes, scale is the big point. I want to get your reaction. Matt Wood, Dr. Matt Wood, Cube alum, been on many times, he nailed it I thought when he said, look it, machine learning and data analysis was on megabytes and gigabytes, they're offering petaflop level compute, high performance, and then Werner Vogels has also said something around the services where, you can open things up in parallel scale. So, what's your reaction to that, as you look at that and say whoa, I've got a set of services I can launch in parallel, and the scale of leveraging that petaflops. I mean, this is kind of like the new, you know, compute model. Your reaction is it real? Are customers ready for it? Where are we in that evolutionary customer journey? Are they still cavemen trying to figure out how to make fire and make the wheel? I mean where are we with this? >> I think that we see the same thing continuing to emerge as far as patterns go, where they talk about, yes there's this service. Just start using it and it scales forever. And that's great in theory, but in practice, all of the demos, all of the quick starts, all of the examples, paint by numbers examples that they'll give you, tend to be at very small scale. And yes, it works really well when you have effectively five instances all playing together. When you have 5,000 of those instances, a lot of sharp edges start to emerge. Scale becomes a problem. Fail overs take far longer. And let's not even talk about what the bill does at that point. Additionally once you're at that point, it's very difficult to change course. If I write a silly blog, and effectively baby seals get more hits than this thing does, it's not that difficult for me to migrate that. Whereas if I'm dealing with large scale production traffic that's earning me money on a permanent basis, moving that is no longer trivial or in some cases feasible at all. >> Yeah Corey, how does anybody reasonably make a decision as to how they're going to build something because tomorrow, everything might change. You said oh okay great, I had my environment and I kind of you know, built my architecture a certain way, oh wait there's a new container service. Oh, and start building a, oh wait now there's the orchestrated version of that that I need to change to. Oh wait, now there's a serverless built way that kind of does it in a similar way. So you know, it seems like it used to be the best time to do things would've been two months ago, but now I should do it now. Now the answer is, the best time for me to do things would be if I could wait another quarter, but really I have to get started now. >> I tend to put as much on future Corey as I possibly can. The problem is that at one time I could've sat here and said the same thing to you about, oh virtualization is the way to go. You should migrate your existing bare metal servers there. And then from virtualization to Cloud and Cloud to containers. Then containers to serverless. And this narrative doesn't ever change. It's oh what you're doing is terrible and broken. The lords of thought have decried that now it's time to do this differently, and that's great, but what's the business use case for doing it? Well, we did this thing that effectively people get on stage at keynotes and make fun of us for now, so we should really change it. Okay maybe, but why? Is there a business value driving that decision? And I think that gets lost in the weeds of the new shiny conference ware that gets trotted out. >> Well I mean Amazon's not, I mean they're being pretty forthright. I mean, you can't deny what Intuit put out there today. The Intuit head of machine learning and data science laid out old way, new way. Classic case of old way, new way. Eight months, six to eight months, ton of cluster, you-know-what going on as things changed it. They're just data scientists. They're not back-end developers. They went to one week. Nine months to one week. That's undeniable right? I mean how do you, I mean that's a big company but, that seems to be the big enchilada that Amazon's going for, not the pockets of digital disruption. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, how do you square that out? I mean how do you think about that? >> Cloudability had a great survey that they released the results of somewhat recently where they were discussing that something like four or five of the, or I'm sorry 85% of the global spend on AWS went to four or five services that all have been around for a long time. RDS, EC2, S3, PBS, Data Transfer. And so as much as people talk about this and you're seeing pockets of this, it's not the common gaze by a wide margin. People don't get up on stage and talk about, well I have these bunch of EC2 instances behind a low balancer, storing data on S3 and that's good enough for me, because that's not interesting anymore. People know how to do that. Instead, they're talking about these far future things that definitely add capability, but do come at a cost-- >> I mean it's the classic head room. It's like here's some head room, but at the end of the day it's EC2, S3, Kinesis, Redshift, bunch of services that's U.S that seem to dominate. The question I want to ask you is that they always flaunt out the, every year it changes, Kinesis was at one point the fastest growing service in the history of AWS. Now it's Aurora. We made a, I made a prediction on the opening that a SageMaker will be the fastest growing service, because there just seemed to be so much interest in turn-key machine learning. It's hard as you-know-what to do it. >> I agree. >> Your thoughts on SageMaker? >> In one of my issues a few weeks back, I wound up asking, so who's using SageMaker and for what? And the response was ridiculous. What astounded me was that no two answers were alike as far as what the use case was. But they all started the same way. I'm not a data scientist, but. So this is something that's becoming-- >> John: What does that mean to you? What does that tell you? >> It tells me that everyone thinks they're unqualified to be playing around in the data science world, but they're still seeing results. >> But Corey I wonder because you know, think back a few years ago. That's what part of the promise of big data, is we have all this data and we're going to be able to have the business analysts rather than you know, some PhD sort this out. And machine learning is more right. We want to have these tools and we want to democratize data, you know. Data is the new bacon. It's the new oil. Data's the new everything. So you know, machine learning, you think this is all vapor and promise, or do you think it's real? >> I think big data is very real and very important. Ask anyone who sells storage by the gigabyte. And they will agree with me. In practice I think it's one of those areas where the allure is fascinating but the implementation is challenging. Okay we have history going back 20 years of every purchase someone has ever made in our book store. That's great, why do I still wind up getting recommendations? >> Well yeah and I guess, I want to talk that it was the, I see it more as, everything that was big data is now kind of moving to the ML and AI stage. Because big data didn't deliver on it, will this new wave deliver on the promise of really extracting value from my data? And it's things like this, live data. It's doing things now with my data, not the historical, lots of different types of data that we were trying to do with like the Hadoops of the world. >> Got ya. I think it's a great move because either yes it will or no it won't, but if it doesn't, you're going to see emergent behaviors of so why didn't it work? Well we don't understand the model that this system has constructed, so we can't even tell you why it's replacing the character I with some weird character that's unprintable, so let alone why we decide to target a segment of customers who never buys anything. So it does become defensible from that perspective. Whether there's something serious there that's going to wind up driving a revolution in the world of technology, I think it's too soon to say and I wouldn't dare to predict. But I will be sarcastic about it either way. >> Okay well let's get sarcastic for a second. I wan to talk to you about some moves other people are making. We'll get to the competition in a minute but Salesforce required MuleSoft. That got a lot of news and we were speculating on our studio session this week or last week with the CEO of Rubric that it's great for Salesforce. It can bring structured data in, on PRIM and the Cloud. Salesforce is one big SaaS platform. Amazon is trying to SaaS-ify business through the Cloud. So, but one of the things that's missing from MuleSoft is the unstructured data. So the question for you is, how are you seeing and how is your community looking at the role of the data as a strategic asset in a modern stack, one, both structured and unstructured data, is that becoming, even happening or is it more like, well we don't even know what it means. Your thoughts? >> I think that there's been a long history of people having data in a variety of formats and being able to work with that does require some structure. That's why we're seeing things emerging around S3's, increasing capabilities, being able to manipulate data at rest. We're seeing that with S3 and Glacier Select. We're seeing it with Athena which is named after the goddess of spending money on Cloud services, and there's a number of different tooling options that are, okay we're not going to move three x-abytes of data in so we have to do something with where it is. As far as doing any form of analysis on it, there needs to be some structure to it in order for that to make sense. From that perspective, MuleSoft was a brilliant acquisition. The question is, is what is SalesForce going to do with that? They have a history of acquisition, some of which have gone extremely well. Others of which we prefer not to talk about in polite company. >> It comes back down to the IDE thing. How many IDE's does Salesforce have now? I mean it's a huge number. >> I'm sure there's three more since we've started talking. (laughing) >> Yeah so Corey, you brought up, you know, money. So you know, the trillion dollar, what feedback are you getting from the community? You know there's always, well I get on Amazon and then my bills continue to grow and continue to grow. Same thing at Salesforce by the way if you use them. So you know, there's always as you gain power, people will push back against it. We saw with with Mike Hichwa with Oracle. I hear it some but it's not an overriding thing from when I talk to customers about Amazon. But I'm curious what you're hearing. Where are the customers feeling they're getting squeezed? Where is it you know, phenomenal? What are you seeing kind of on the monetary side of Cloud? >> In my day job, I solve one problem. I fix the horrifying AWS bill, both in terms of dollars and cents as well as analysis and allocation. And what astonishes me, and I'm still not sure how they did it. It's that AWS has somehow put the onus onto the customer. If you or I go out and we buy a $150,000 Ferrari, we wake up with a little bit of buyer's remorse of dear lord, that was an awful lot of money. When you do the equivalent in AWS, you look at that, and instead of blaming the vendor for overcharging, instead we feel wow, I'm not smart enough. I haven't managed that appropriately. Somehow it's my fault that I'm writing what looks like a phone number of a check every month over to AWS. >> John: It creeps up on you. >> It does. It's the boiling a frog problem. And by the time people start to take it seriously, there's a lot of ill will. There's a sense of, our team is terrible, and wasn't caring about this. But you don't ever cost-optimize your way to success. That's something you do once you have something that's up and working and viable. You don't start to build a product day one for the least possible amount of money and expect to attain any success. >> Well let's talk about that real quick to end the segment because I think that's a really important thing. Success is a double-edged sword. The benefit of the Cloud is to buy what you need, get proof of concept going, get some fly wheels going or whatever, virtuous circle of the application. But at some point, you hit a tipping point of oh shit this is working. And then the bill is huge. Better than over-provisioning and having a failed product. So where's that point with you guys or with your customers? Is there like analytics you do? Is that more of a subjective qualitative thing? You say, okay are you successful? Now let's look at it. So how do you deal with customers? 'Cause I can imagine that success is, it becomes the opportunity but also the problem. >> I think it's one of those, you know it when you see it type of moments, where if a company is spending $80,000 a month on their Cloud environment and could be spending 40, that's more interesting to a company that's three people than it is to an engineering team of 50. At that point, sorry they're embezzling more than that in office supplies every month. So that's not the best opportunity to start doing an optimization pass. More important than both of those scales to me has always been about understanding the drivers of it. So what is it that's costing that? Is it a bunch of steady state things that aren't doing work most of the time? Well, maybe there's an auto-scaling story in there. Maybe there's a serverless opportunity. Maybe nobody's using that product and it's time to start looking at rolling it in to something. >> They've left the lights on right? So to speak. >> Exactly. >> The server's are still up. Wait a minute, take them down. So, writing code, analytics, is that the answer? >> All of the above. In a vacuum, if you spin up an instance today, and don't touch it again, you will retire before that instance does. And it will continue to charge you every hour of every day. Understanding and being able to attribute who spun that up, when was it done, why was it done, and what project is it tied to? Is it some failed experiment someone did who hasn't worked here in six months? Or is that now our master database? We kind of need to know in either direction what that looks like. >> Alright before we wrap, you got to tell us, what do we expect to hear from your podcast? >> Good question. My podcast generally focuses on one-on-one conversations with people doing interesting things in the world of Cloud, which is vague enough for me to get away with almost anything as far as it goes. It's less sarcastic and snarky than some of my other work, and more at the why instead of the how. I'm not going to sit here and explain how to use an ABI. There are people far better at that than I am. But I will talk about why you might use a service, and what problem it reports to solve. >> Alright Corey, great to have you on. Uh the Screaming Pod, Screaming Cloud, >> Corey: ScreamingInTheCloud.com >> ScreamingInTheCloud.com, it's a podcast. Corey thanks for coming on and sharing the commentary, the insight on AWS, the how and the why, the Cube breaking down. All the action here in Moscone Western San Francisco, AWS 2018 Summit, back after more, after this short break. (spacey music)

>> Announcer: Live from San Juan, Puerto Rico, it's theCUBE, covering Blockchain Unbound. Brought to you by Blockchain Industries. (upbeat music) >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's exclusive coverage in Puerto Rico where we are broadcasting the Blockchain Unbound event. This is a global conference where people from around the world are coming together. From Silicone Valley, from New York, Miami, all around the world. Coming to talk about Blockchain, the disruptive nature of crypto currency and the decentralized applications and how it's changing the world, creating a lot of value. My next guest is Albert Santalo, the founder and CEO of Eight Base, the number Eight Base. Albert, thanks for joining me. >> Thank you, John, it's good to be here. >> So before we get into it, we'll talk on camera a little bit about what you guys are doing. I want you to take a minute to explain what Eight Base is, why, what you guys are doing? What are you disrupting and what's the value proposition? >> So Eight Base is software to build software. So if you've ever, if you're familiar with Wicks or SquareSpace for websites, we essentially do the same thing for this big category called enterprise software. And if you've every been around enterprise software project, it's no fun. It's really expensive, takes a lot of time and it's froth with danger. We make that easy and we empower a group of people called citizen developers. Basically, regular business people to build their own software without having to hire developers. >> You know, cloud computing has done a lot of great things. One of them is this notion of making coding easier. But Blockchain is now a whole new growth phase onto of cloud computing and internet of things, where you have new languages, new key for Ethereum to whatever, yet there's a demand for talent. There's now creative thinking involved. As people rethink business models, re-imagine either sovereignty or a business process, the creativity's in the people, the business model. Not necessarily the technologies, although they're involved. So there's been a challenge for how do you make it easy? So you guys are trying to do that, what's the secret sauce? Is it a tech-play, is it a business-play, cloud-play? How do you guys look at that? >> You're striking at the essence of what we do. So if you think about Blockchain, a lot of work that's been done so far has been sort of protocol level stuff and the applications that most of us see on top of it are things that don't quite look like they're finished products, right. And it has to do with the fact that it's core engineers that are really trying to bring this all to the surface. So what we are is the next layer of infrastructure on top of that protocol level. And we excel at a beautiful user interface that makes it simple for normal people to build these systems quickly and inexpensively without having to have an IQ of 140 plus which is the people that do Blockchain. >> We've seen this similar movie before and I want to get your entrepreneurial background in a separate segment but this is something that's actually happening in cloud computing and in data-science, you've seen the citizen analyst. Cause data-science you have to code python and there's like only a certain population that can do that, but what happened was people were building abstraction layers to make it really easy to wrangle data, use data-science, visualizations, whether it's tableau or whatever, that really changed the nature of what data-science became. And now the benefits in the data-analytics space is multi-fold. You're seeing examples of that. Talk about some use cases that you guys are doing and be specific with some examples of how you see it playing out. How much do they need? Is it a dashboard, how would you envision the product? What's it going to look like? >> This has an enormous democratizing effect, right. So what you're talking about is that data-science was hard to access, expensive to access, only a few people in the world really could do it and then these layers of abstractions have facilitated a much wider group of people being able to do it. So that's exactly what we're doing. We're at the same time bringing the development of software closer to where the requirements live because literally, the people finding the requirements can develop their own software. So what you're going to see is a rollout of Blockchain and non-Blockchain software just accelerated and put into the hands of more people which strikes at the heart of digital transformation. We've all heard about this theme digital transformation. It's businesses that if they don't evolve and adopt Blockchain, AI, all these other things, they have a threat of being put of business. That's where the big opportunity for Eight Base is. >> Digital transformation certainly is going to reshape things, so the idea of having a Blockchain-enabled app, you're going to make it easier for someone to do that. What use cases do you envision being the low-hanging fruit, as you guys go to the market? What are some of the use cases? Because developers still can contribute to your model. Explain how the role of true developer? I get the part of easy to program, because that's natural, leggo-blocked, making it easy. How does it grow? How does it evolve? >> So the citizen developer is what we've talked about until now. There's something called the Eight Based server-less chaise which is the heart of the system. In that part of our world, developers or core engineers can work to extend the platform. And in the process of that, they can earn tokens and basically create a business model for themselves. Either one-time payment or a recurring payment. So Eight Base will evolve very, very, rapidly. Not only through Eight Bases' development work and our development team, but through the world at large contributing new capabilities. Think of a Blockchain, a new Blockchain that comes out, that's innovative, all they have to do is create an extension to the Eight Base platform and now that's accessible to all the Eight Base users in the world, right. >> So let me get this right, see if I can unpack this, see if I can un-connect the dots. You're essentially creating software to make people that want to write software really easy. So they essentially invoke some thing and it automatically writes the software for them, so they don't have to. And then you have a development eco-system that can add more to that, much like a marketplace. Is that kind of getting it right? >> Yes, so, when you talk about writing the system, it's a yes and no. >> Okay. >> So one thing we're not, is a code generator. So the software is created but runs inside of our environment because we think the environment is also more than half of the value that we add. We have a fully fault-tolerant, scalable cloud-base environment so that the same people who want to develop don't have to worry about IT. So that's really, really important. >> You've nailed the operational piece. >> That's right and it's fully self-service, so there's no human intervention. So people can try Eight Base before they buy it without having to talk to salespeople, without having to drop a credit card and without having to have implementation people involved. >> That sounds like a great cloud solution to me. And certainly, cloud has proven that a set of services, you know, push-button, kind of capability, Amazon's been very successful, Amazon's Web Service, with their marketplace. Why even provision code, just click on and use it. >> And by the way, in talking about Amazon, what we're doing, in my opinion, wasn't even possible 15 years ago. Even though many of our competitors which date back to those days tried. Things like Amazon Web Services, the Google Cloud, many of the open-source things including Blockchain are what facilitates what we do because we don't have to write it all. We can leverage these incredible underlying technologies and curate them in way that makes it accessible to people. >> So you're tailwind for your business is the open-source software market, you're differentiations, you're running all the operations for them so they don't have to and so you have an extensive, and you're also providing the value of having a Blockchain-enabled capability for someone who's not trained. >> Yes and a visual interface that normal people can understand in terms of building software. A no-code, what we called a no-code. >> Define, normal. >> Well, you know, most of the population. >> Yeah, who want Blockchain, who wants the benefits of it, you guys abstract that away, great. So ICO, you guys doing a fundraising? You guys doing an ICO? What's the plans? >> We have plans for a token sale but I can't talk about it just yet. >> Okay, I respect that, okay cool. So that sounds like it's rocking and rolling. Let's talk about you. So were just joking off camera, big Hurricane's fan from Miami. They're going to get their mojo back. >> Looks that way. >> I love the chain, the turnover chain, fantastic. Love to see the action, energy there. But you also have a lot of success in the industry. Also, you have some scar tissue as us guys, growing up in that era where you have to provision your own stuff. Go to venture capital, get the funding. It was a slog, I mean, on many levels. Some got easier overtime, certainly agile programming helped a lot, but now with cloud and now with this new marketplace where you have almost a global footprint capability. How do you talk to people and say, hey you know, I've been there. I've walked to school with no shoes, back in the day and now it's so much better. How do you talk about this wave? I mean, because it's a bigger wave than anything we've seen before, certainly, a lot of things coming together at once. >> So I love this topic. I've stood up a couple of venture-back technology companies, probably the one I'm best known for is Care Cloud which is backed by Silicone Valley VCs and, you know, I've raised a fare amount of angel investments and venture capital and I appreciate the model, right. It's got its pros and cons and when you talk about scar tissue, you know, all our entreprenuers have scar tissue, whether they were funded or not. I also had a very unique experience because I was at the signing of the Jobs Act. I was standing behind the president at the White House and at the time I was beginning to sort of imagine what could become of that and I did a PBS interview sort of like this. It was actually a debate, talking about it back then. And I never would have imagined, we were talking about things like crowd-funding and stuff like that but never in a million years could I have envisioned what Blockchain could have brought to all this and what ICOs would have looked like and what crowd-funding at a global environment. Up until that time we thought of most of entrepreneurship as a U.S. phenomenon. Now it's a very much global phenomenon. So I'm very excited about what's coming. I think it creates an incredible opportunity for entrepreneurs all over the world to sort of emerge and do what they do. Whether they know VCs personally or not, which is sort of part of the problem. As long as this industry doesn't get too crazy, we can sort of keep that under control and let it grow. >> My personal opinion, having a venture-back company in the past, my current business-looking angle, theCUBE is self-funded, no outside capital. It's interesting because there's three types of funding elements going on in this ICO bubble. The startup and then the other end of the spectrum is that, oh shit, we're going out of business, throw the hail Mary, okay. Pivot, that's what they call it now. We use to call it, shit, we're going out of business! Now it's called, accu-hire and pivoting. And then in the middle is really where the action is. Growth companies that actually have a business model and need growth capital at a scale and technology infrastructure has token economics built in. That's where I see most of the smart money going. On the startup side there's an argument for VCs because that's a good, a lot of my friends are VCs and they've been on theCUBE. They need nurturing, they need advice, they need to have the network effect, and they need to have that service provider. But some can go right to the value faster. So you see the startup category kind of bifurcate into, you know, I really want the VCs and to some, I just want to get to first base, get this thing done and I'll re-evaluate. And there's the holy-grail which is token economics already built in, growth companies. Okay, so that being said, from your perspective, when you look at the Jobs Act, you mentioned that, so I also find that there's new levels of startups coming on, not just the technological entrepreneurs. In Washington D.C. I've covered in great detail with Teresa Carlson, who's the head of Amazon's Web Services global public sector, this tsunami of societal entrepreneurship where NGOs because of the Jobs Act can now invest in mission-driven startups. So what's happening is a level of entrepreneurs coming in, solving stuff that would never get funded by a VC. Talking about a women's abuse app or missing, exploited children or solving world hunger, these used to be philanthropy missions that when there's no more funding, everything's dead. Now there's entrepreneurship going on, there are people doing stuff they know they want to do but need to code. This is kind of where you're targeting. Kind of a data-point to validate what you're doing, right? >> First of all, I love the fact that that's happening. Things that are good for a society obviously is good for everybody. But I would also say that beyond that, you know, people are sort of, if you're lucky enough in life to find out what you're really passionate about, sometimes that always doesn't align itself with profits. So we're giving them an opportunity for people to live a more fulling life by following their dreams and doing good by society, right. But at the end of the day, we have to be able to fund these things and we have to be able to support them. And things like the Jobs Act and crowd-funding and stuff have really given life to this stuff. >> Well the thing about NGOs in these new areas is that they don't have a lot of tech expertise. They have a lot of years of experience in the channels and their relationships and their mission but now there's like, oh damn I got to build something. So who do you turn to? This is kind of where the model of simplicity is really kind of key. >> Eight Base is designed for exactly that. So when we think about where's Eight Base used? First and foremost we think small to mid-sized businesses that are looking to digitally transform, okay. Then we think of large companies where departmentally people don't necessarily want to go to their IT department. They do what's called shadow-IT. They build their own stuff. Eight Base is a much more, it's a much better, much more compliant way to do that, and businesses to be able to cycle faster. But the last thing is entrepreneurs. So imagine, today we have all these platforms to make entrepreneurship easier. Well imagine if you could literally build your product very, very easily without having to hire developers? Think about how we're spawning companies left and right. So part of what we like to do is really be a catalyst for that type of economy overtime. >> Shadow-IT, I've said on theCUBE many times, has been legitimized with the cloud. It used to be kind of a, you know, quiet little secret. You go around, put the credit card down, spin up some servers, get a little prototype and then show the boss and they'll double down on that. Similar kind of concept going on in this world. Get something going, show some momentum. >> And get some money. >> You guys take care of that for everybody. Okay, so what's going on in Puerto Rico? Let's shift gears. We're here in Puerto Rico, what's your observation, what's the vibe? Obviously, they're trying to bid themselves out like they want to be a haven for entrepreneurship, bring the local culture together. What are you hearing here in the hallways here? What are you talking about? What's some of the observations? >> First of all I'm a big fan of Puerto Rico. I live in Miami so I've been to Puerto Rico many, many times and the place has been hard hit by the hurricane. I love the fact that the government was able to reform the tax situation five years ago and I think it's exactly that type of thing that will bring, sort of, that will spawn the type of innovation that we need here. All communities need to evolve, in my opinion, to technology communities. You've seen it obviously Silicone Valley is the exaggerated example but you've seen it in places like Detroit, New York, Austin, and even Miami is very important. A big, big part of the message I carry. When you live on a island, it's sort of has an even different dynamic, but there's no reason why that can't emerge here in Puerto Rico. I'm hopeful that these incentives, et cetera, will attract that kind of-- >> It's a short flight to the mainland. It's entrepreneurial center. >> It's the United States. >> It's the United States. With digital, there's no boundaries with digital cultural. Opportunity for them. >> That's right. >> Albert, thanks for spending the time. What's next for you, what are you going to do? Obviously, you've got your business you're building, can't talk about your token sale. >> Well we haven't literally launched the company yet but we're anticipating that next week or the following we're actually going to make our announcement and then they'll be lots of announcements after that. >> Come on, give us a little bit more, you're teasing us here. >> By the way, today is our birthday so we were incorporated in ides of March 2017. >> Let's hope that's good luck. (Albert laughs) Albert Santalo, founder and CEO of Eight Base, look for him. We'll be watching the news, trying to get some scoop here but he's not giving in. Good job, well done, seasoned pro. >> Thank you, John. >> We'll be back with more live coverage here in Puerto Rico for theCUBE's coverage of Blockchain Unbound. Thanks for watching, we'll be right back. (lively music)

(uptempo orchestral music) >> Welcome to theCubeConversations here in Palo Alto, California. theCube Studios, I'm John Furrier. The co-host of theCube, and co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. Junaid Islam is the present CTO of Vidder that supports the public sector as well as the defense community as well as other criminalist oriented security paradigms. Expert in the field. Also part of coming Vidder that's doing a lot of work in the area. Thanks for sharing your time here with us. >> Well thanks for having me. >> We had a segment earlier on cybersecurity and the government. So that was phenomenal and also, we talked on the impact of hacking on business. So the number one issue on the boardroom agenda is security. Data, security, it's a big data problem. It's an AI opportunity, some things that are coming out. Embryonic, it's an early shift. Security is a challenge. The old model, the firewall, a moot, doors, access, you get in then you're done. It's over, it's a criminalist world. People can get access to these networks. Security is screwed right now. And we generally feels that. So the question for you is the Enterprise and in business as we're looking to show up security. Isn't it a do-over? >> Yeah, yeah, I think like other industries. Whether you talk about the PBS. Yes, yes, where you talk about computers shifting to the data center and then the cloud. I think last year or this year, Gartner said 100 billion will be spent on security. I cannot believe anybody who was involved in that 100 billion dollar expenditure is happy. In fact we have something interesting. Security expenditure has risen consistently over the past five or six years, and cyber attacks have also risen consistently. So that's not the kind of correlation you want. >> And they're buying anything that moves basically, they're desperate so it seems like they're like drunken sailors. Just like give me something. They're thirsty for solutions. So they're groping for something. >> Yeah and what we're seeing is a couple of things. One is the attackers have gotten much more sophisticated. And they basically can bypass all of the existing security appliances. So what we need is a new approach or a new security stack that really fits both the architectural environment of American companies where they use Clouds and data centers, and they have employees and contractors. But also cyber attacks which have gone much more sophisticated. The classic cyber attack used to be connecting to the Server remotely or stealing a password. We still have the classics but we have some new ones where we have malware that can actually go from the user's device to inside the network. And you find that existing security products just don't work well in this environment. >> What are some of the do over ideas? >> Absolutely malware, we see it ransomware, super hot, the HBO example recently. They didn't given, who knows what they actually did. They weren't public about it but actually they maybe get a little bit in but these are organized businesses. They're targeting with the Sony hacks well documented but again businesses, I'm not always funded this. And then you got the move to the clouds. Couple dynamics. Cloud computing. Amazon has done extremely well, they're leading. Now getting a lot more of the Enterprise. They won the CIA deal a few years ago over IBM. And you see a lot of government Cloud rocking and rolling, and then you've got the on premise data center challenges. That's the situation of the customer then now you have potentially an understaffed security force. >> Well actually so, I think let's start with that point. In terms of our theme of a do over. Talk about that first and then let's talk the techno part. I think one do over that America needs is security has to move out of the IT department, and become a stand alone department reporting ideally to the executive staff and not being on it. I think one of the unfortunate things is because security is a cost center within IT, it competes with other IT expenditures such as new applications, which are revenue generating. It's very hard to be a cost center asking for money when there's a guy sitting next to you who's doing something to make money. But unfortunately, unless security is properly funded and staffed, it never happens. And this unfortunately is a chronic issue through all US companies. One of the things we've seen that has worked for example in the financial world is most financial institutions, probably all now security is a pure organization to IT, that helps a lot. This is actually not a new idea, this was something the intelligence community probably started-- >> Cost structures, it's just the cost structures. Reduce the cost is the optimization behavior. What you're saying is just like applications are tied to top line in revenue, which gives them top line mojo. You got to think of security as a money saving table stake. >> That's right. >> People are losing money. The cost are now becoming obvious, in some cases crippling. >> Yeah so I think people need to think of security as fundamental to the life of a company, number one. I think the other thing that needs to happen from a security perspective. Now that we've broken off this entity is it security needs to become a threat based or risk based. Too much of security in the United States is based on compliance models. Unfortunately cyber attackers do not follow that model when they want to attack us. They basically work outside the model and come up with creative ways to get inside of organizations. >> Basically blindside. >> That's right. >> The company. >> I can't tell you how many meetings probably all where I meet the security team and they're totally busy just going through the list of 20 or 50 things that they're are supposed to do. So when you talk about attack vectors. They say you know that's really great and I know it's important but we can't get to it. So this is another important shift organizationally. First you break it out. Second, get focus on something that's important. once we have that we get to the next part which is technologies. And right now what happens is people buy a security point product for different networks. One for data center or one for Cloud. And this doesn't work so I think we have to move to security solutions that can work across hybrid environments, and can also work across different roles. I think that is critical and unless we get that in technically. >> Yeah, this is the thing with Cloud and (indistinct talking). I want to bring this up. I had multiple change to sit down with Andy Jassy. The CEO of Amazon web services. Fantastic executive, built a great business there. On his mind, what's been important for him for many years has been security, and Amazon has done an amazing job with security. But that's in the Cloud. Now Andy Jassy and Amazon thinks everyone should be in the public Cloud. Now they have a deal with VMware but they're just powering VMware's on prem in their Cloud. It's not really a VMware issue but Amazon's world is raising the public Cloud. But they've done really, really good on security, but yet most of the buyers would say hey, the Cloud is unsecure I can't trust it. So you have the dynamic between the data center on premise resource. So people default to the behavior of and leaving here with the on premise. Or I'll put a little bit in the cloud, a little bit of workloads here. A little bit in the Microsoft. Google's got some, I'll keep the tire on Google. But they never really leaving the home base of the data center. But yet some are arguing and Dave Vellante, my co-host on theCube talks about this all the time. There's actually more scale in the Cloud. More data sharing going in the cloud and that the cloud actually got better security. So how do you see that resolving because this is a key architectural opportunity and challenge for Enterprise. >> Actually I think there's an optimal model which is if you think about what the data center gives you. It gives you a lot of visibility and physical control as in with your hands. The problem is when you put everything in the data center. You don't have enough people to manage it all properly. The Cloud on the other hand gives you a lot of scale but you can't actually touch the Cloud. So the optimal mix is imagine your encryption and access control solutions live in your data center. But what they control access to is to Cloud resources. So you can actually, if you're just open your mind conceptually. >> So it's like saying, it's like segmenting a network. You're segmenting feasibility. >> That's right, so now you don't need a gigantic data center because what's in your data center which can be a lot smaller now are things like your identity-based access management solutions. You can keep your cryptographic elements. You can have your HSM, things that generate random numbers and search there. But now this is actually can be very tiny. It can just be a rack of gear. But through that rack of gear, you can have very fine control of people accessing Cloud resources. And I think this idea of building, it's not so much a hybrid network, but it's a notion that a small physically locked down asset can control a lot of virtual assets. It's gaining mind share in the banking world. In fact, just this summer, there was bank that implemented such an architecture where the control elements were the Cloud were their FFIC data center. And it include, it basically managed access to Amazon VPC and it worked well. >> So interlocking is a strategy. I can see that, by the way I see that playing out pretty well. So I got to ask the next question which comes to mind is that sounds great on paper. Or actually in certain situations it might perfect. But what about the geo-political landscape? because Amazon has people that develop on the Cloud that aren't US citizens. So the government might say wait a minute, you got to only employ Americans so they got to carve out and do some whatever weird doings with the numbers to get that certification. But they need data centers in Germany because the German government wants certain things. So you have geo-political issues now on the companies. How does that affect security? Because now a Cloud like Amazon or a multinational company has two things going on. I have multiple offices and I'm operating in multiple geo-political landscapes with these regional centers. The regional clouds, or at Amazon they're called regions. >> So actually Amazon has actually done a great job. They basically have their global market, but they also have data centers now which are only opened to US persons in US companies like Globe Cloud. As well as well as they support the C2S which is the intelligence communities Black Cloud, which is basically off net so I think now-- >> John: So they're doing a good job? >> Yeah, they're doing a good job but the key thing is how you use that resource is really still up to the enterprise. And that's where enterprises have to get good at creating the architecture and policies to be able to harness Amazon's compute capacity. Amazon, is the foundation but you really have to finish off the solution and the other thing going back full circle to your first question. Unless the security team has their freedom and the mandate to do that, they'll actually never get there. >> So it's staffing and architecture. >> That's right. >> Well they both architecture. It's one's organizational architecture. Debt funding and one is more of a hardcore virtual and physical touching. >> And you know what I put in the middle? I'd say know your risks and develop counter measures to them. because if you go to that security team and you say you have to build a counter measure for every attack. That's not going to work either. A company has to be realistic is what is really important? Maybe it's the data of our customers. >> So the answer to the first question then obviously is yes a security do over is needed. But there is no silver bullet and you can't buy an application, it's an architectural framework holistically >> Junaid: That's right. >> That everyone has to do, okay cool. So the question I have on the Amazon, I want to get your thoughts 'cause it's a debate we have all the time on theCube is. And certainly Amazon has competitors that say, Amazon is really not winning in the enterprise. They've got thousand of Enterprise customers. They are winning in the Enterprise so Oracle is catching up, barely in fourth place. But trying to get there and they're actually making that transformation. Looking pretty good, what more now assume that Oracle will (indistinct talking). But Amazon has one great gov Cloud deals. So they're convinced the government that they could do it. >> Junaid: Yeah. >> So to me that's, my argument is if the government is winning with Amazon. It should be a no brainer for the Enterprises so this comes back down to the number one question that's been holding back Cloud growth. Whoa, security, I don't want to put it in the Cloud. How real is that objection now? 'Cause the knee jerk reaction is you know what, I got an on prem, I don't trust the Cloud. But it seems like the Cloud is getting more trust. What's your thoughts on that objection? >> So one of the things as even though when we use the word Cloud, generically or Amazon generically. Amazon has evolved a lot in the last three to four years that I've been working on it. The number of embedded tools in Amazon is vast now. If we were having this conversation two years ago. The notion that granular encryption modules would be there and Amazon is apart of an offering. It would have been science fiction or the fact that-- >> More that S3 and AC2, what else could there be? >> That's right or they have things like virtual HSM. They have embedded identity and access control tools all there so I think first of all. All of the building blocks that you would want are there. Now unfortunately there's no short cuts. Amazon is not going to do the work for you, you still need a staff that knows how to use digital certificates. You still need your own identity based access control system to manage access of your employees and contractors and people in India to these assets in the Cloud. But having said that, we now actually have a model that is much cheaper than the classic data center model. That's basically usable. >> I'm smirking some people think I'm an Amazon web services fan boy but besides the fact that I love the company. They've done well and there's so many new services, and they literally have been skating rings around the competition. If you look at the complexity that they have been dealing with and the innovations. So the outputs put that out there. I'm a little biased 'cause I think they're doing a great job. But now, the game start to shift as Amazon continues to add more services. Welcome to the big leagues called the Enterprise and government, which they're doing some business in now. So the question is besides Amazon, those other guys. Verizon, the Telecos have really trying to figure out what to do with over the top for years. Now they're also powering a lot of multi tenet workloads as well, including their own stuff. So telecos and service providers out there, what are they doing because they're still critical infrastructure around the world. >> Actually, I think if we just use Amazon as a reference point or example. Amazon initially didn't worry about security but then over the last few years, worked hard to integrate security into their offering. We're now in the early stages of seeing that from for example carriers like Verizon. Where in the past Verizon was saying first secure yourself then in the last two years. Version okay, here's some products and services you can buy. But now where we're heading is they're trying to make the network inherently secure. A lot of the basic components like device matching to identity matching basically making that apart of the underlying fabric. So I think the good news is as-- >> So they're making advances there. They have networks. They know networking. >> So the good news is as bleak as it all seems as we are making significant progress as an industry and as a country. Having said that, my only and warning is you still need an executive team. A security team that knows how to leverage all of these components and pull them together. And that goes back to having a risk based approach and protecting the most important things. I think you can do that, I think the tool set that's come out now is actually pretty sophisticated. >> So final question, I want to get your thoughts and we can end the segment and then we'll take a little bit about Vidder, your company. But I asked Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMware at VM World just recently about the security duo 'cause Dave Vellante asked him years ago. He said absolutely it's going to be (indistinct talking) so Pat Gelsinger has it right again. The guy is like Nostradamus when it comes to tech trend. He's a wave guy from Intel, so he gets the waves. But I asked him about that question again this year and I'll send the tip out on Twitter. I'll put it out on Twitter, I'll make a link to it. He said that 5G is going to be the big kahuna of the next 30 years. He thinks that as 5G starts to get out, it's going to develop 10X number of antennas, 100X of bandwidth, new spectrum allocations, 100X new devices, they're all going to be connected as well. As you mentioned we're a connected world. This brings up the edges of the network where he says, "Next thirty years is going to be massive build out." So okay, 5G is coming. Industrial IoT, IoT internet of things is happening. How is this going to change a security game because now you have networking and you see VMware. We're doing NSX and Cisco has been trying to the Enterprise figuring out the virtualization of network level. Everything comes back down to the network. Is that where the action is because it seems to me that the network guys have to figure this out. And that seems to be the point of reference in terms of opportunity. Or is it a challenge or is it moving up the stack. How does all the networking changes happen? >> So for IoT, we really need two things to happen. I think one is we actually don't have a security standard for IoT devices. And specifically the issue is malware. IoT devices and softwares made worldwide and I think one of the biggest policy weaknesses we have right now is there's no minimum standard. This needs to be solved, otherwise we're in a lot of problem but in parallel to that. There is a lot of technical development. One of the things that's happening in the networking world is for the past 20 years. We were driven by what's called a network VPN of Layer 3 VPN, it's your classic VPN, that connects a device to a server. The problem with that is if you have malware on the device it gets through. So there's this new kind of VPN which is an application VPN or we call it a Layer 4, which is basically a softer process in the device tool. A softer process in a server. So that's the new model, which is-- >> They're making them as dumb as possible and go up the stat. >> Not so much-- >> There were guys that are going to roll-- >> I could have used different terms. I could have say make the app network application aware so that it only lets the applications get through. Not any kind of connection, so I think that is something. >> Well the networks have to smarter and enable the smartness. >> So smarter networks are happening and it's an area that I worked in. It's very excited. >> John: I don't mean to offend you by saying dumb network-- >> But the application but to be clear though that's just one piece of the puzzle. The other piece of the puzzle which unfortunately is a little bit lacking is there's no standards for IoT software today. And unless we have concepts like secure boot, that is the software can't be tampered with. I think I've unfortunately there's a bit of risk but I'm hopeful-- >> And then IoT for folks watching, there might be any inside baseball. It's a surface area problem. There's more points of attack vectors, so we talk about the compliance thing. >> Not only are there more attacks, by and large IoT devices are made outside of the United States. Physically they are made in China and a lot of the software comes from India. And there's nothing wrong with that, but the global supply chain provides plenty of opportunities for cyber attackers to inject in their code. And this is something we need to watch very carefully and then like I said-- >> So this is actually one of those weird derivative results of outsourcing that American companies have realized that's a problem. >> Yeah so. >> Is that right? >> Yeah so it's something we need to watch carefully. >> Okay, thanks for coming on the theCube. Really appreciate you sharing your perspectives. Talk about Vidder, you're the president and CTO. You guys in the security business. Obviously you're an expert with (indistinct talking). We'll have you back and multiple times. I'd love to get your company as we follow all the security trends. We have a cyber connect conference with Centrified coming up in New York. We're covering gov Cloud AWS and other players out there. What's Vidder doing? What's the company do for products? How do you guys sell? Who's your customers and what are the cool things you're doing? >> We've developed a access control solution based on a new standard called software defined parameter. And there's two things that are unique about it. First with technology like software defined parameter. We work in the Cloud in the data center, but more importantly, we're able to stop existing attacks and emerging attacks. So things like password theft, credential theft of server exploitation we stop because we don't want to allow connections from unknown devices or people. The other thing is say you're known, and you connect with server. We basically look inside your laptop and only allow the authorized process to connect to the server. So if there's malware on the device, it can't actually make it through. >> John: So it shuts down the malware. >> That's right. >> John: So you're trying sneak through. >> That's right, the malware. We can't stop the malware from getting on the device, but we can make sure it doesn't get to the other side. >> So it doesn't cross pollinate. It doesn't go viral. >> That right so a lot of the stuff we do is very important. We work with a range of-- >> You have government, obviously contracts. I'm sure you have that can't talk about but you do right? >> Yeah we do a little bit of work with the government and we're just start working with Verizon, which is public. Where they wish to create services where malware actually can't go through the connections. So we're doing exciting stuff and we're-- >> Enterprise customers at all? >> Yeah, yeah we have banks. >> Who are on high alert. >> That's right. >> You guys do tier one or it's the houses are burning down, you're there. So we do banks and we're just started doing some work in a hospital were again it's (indistinct talking) compliant, and they need to make sure that data doesn't leave the hospital. >> So what's the number one thing that you guys have as ransomware something that you solve. What areas do you guys being called in? What's the big fire bell, if you will? They ring the bell when do you come in? What the thing, just in general? >> Our number one reason for existing is stopping attacks on application servers or service that old data. That's our focus. So if you have data or an application that someone is after. We will make sure nobody gets to that data. In fact, we'll even make sure if there's a spy, or insider attack, who comes into your organization. They'll only be able to what their allowed to do and won't be able to do anything else. >> So on the weekly Fox that was big. Would you guys have helped there is they were a customer or is that just different thing? >> I know we could have helped because one of the things that happened is they used their server exploit to basically propagate through their data center. So we probably wouldn't have done much on the initial exploit, but we would have kept it from going deeper into the system. >> And they hid for four months and they were poking around so you would have detected. >> Yeah and we certainly would have stopped all the poking around. Because we basically, you can think of us as an identity based access control mechanism. So based on your identity, you can only do very specific things. And in their case, they had the identity of the user. We wouldn't have let them do anything except maybe just go to one website. >> Yeah you would have shut them down. They should have been doing business with Vidder. Jay thank you for coming on theCube here for theCubeConversation in Palo Alto, California. I'm Jon Furrier with theCubeConversation. Thanks for watching. (slow orchestral music)

(the Cube jingle) >> Hello, welcome to the CUBEConversation here in Palo Alto, California in theCUBE Studios. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of the CUBE and co-founder of SiliconANGLE Media. Junaid Islam is president and CTO of Vidder, supports the public sector as well as the defense community as well as other perimeterless oriented security paradigms, expert in the field, also part of up and coming Vidder that's doing a lot of work in the area. Thanks for sharing your time here with us. >> Well thanks for having me. >> We had a segment earlier on cyber security in the government so that was phenomenal but also we talked about the impact of hacking on business. So the number one issue on the board room agenda is security. >> Yeah. >> Data, security, it's all, it's a big data problem, it's a AI opportunity. Some things that are coming out is embryonic early shifts. Security is a challenge. The old model of the firewall, a mode, doors, access, you get in, then you're done. It's over, it's a perimeterless world. People can get access to these networks. Security is screwed right now. Everyone kind of generally feels that. So the question for you is in the enterprise and in businesses who are looking to sure up security, is it a do-over? >> Yeah, yeah, I think, like other industries, whether you talk about-- >> Yeah, so that's a yes? >> The PBS-- Yes, yes. >> Yes, it's a do-over. >> This is where you're talking about computers shifting to the data center and then the cloud, I think last year, or I think this year, Gardner said 100 billion will be spent on security. I cannot believe anybody who is involved in that 100 billion dollar expenditure is happy. In fact, we have something interesting. Security expenditure has risen consistently over the past five or six years. And cyber attacks have also risen consistently. That's not the kind of correlation you want. >> Yeah, they'll buy anything that moves basically. They're desperate-- >> That's correct. >> So it seems like they're like drunken sailors. Just like, "Give me something." They're like thirsty for solution so they're groping for something. >> Yeah, what we're seeing is a couple of things. One is the attackers have gotten much more sophisticated and they basically can by-pass all of the existing security appliances. So what we need is a new approach or a new security stack that really fits both the architectural environment of American companies where they use clouds and data centers, and they have employees and contractors, but also cyber attacks which have gotten much more sophisticated. And the classic cyber attack used to be connecting to the server remotely or stealing a password. We still have the classics but we have some new ones where we have malware that can actually go from the users device to inside the network. And you find that existing security products just don't work well in this environment. And so it'-- >> So what is in the do-over ideas. Obviously malware, we see it. Ransomware is super hot, the HBO example recently. They didn't give in, who knows what they actually did. They weren't public about it but I'm sure they did maybe give a little bit in. But these are organized businesses. >> Yeah. >> Right? They're targeting... The Sony hack's well documented, but again, businesses have not always funded this. And then you got the move to the clouds. Couple dynamics. Cloud computing. Amazon's done extremely well, they're leading now getting a lot more in the enterprise. They won the CIA deal a few years ago over IBM. >> Yeah. >> And you've seen a lot, GovCloud rockin' and rollin'. And then you got the on-premise data center challenges. So that's the situation of the customer. But then now you have potentially an understaffed security force. >> Well, actually it's so. I think let's start with that point in terms of our theme of a do-over. Talk about that first-- >> Yeah, all right. >> Then let's talk the techno part. I think one do-over that America needs is security has to move out of the IT department and become a standalone department reporting ideally to the executive staff, if not being on it. I think one of the unfortunate things is because security is a cost center within IT it competes with other IT expenditures such as new applications which are revenue generating. It's very hard to be a cost center asking for money when there's a guy sitting next to you who's doing something to make money. But unfortunately, unless security is properly funded and staffed, it never happens. And this unfortunately is a chronic issue through all U.S. companies. One of the things we've seen that has worked, for example, in the financial world, is most financial institution, probably all, now security is a pure organization to IT and that helps a lot. This is actually not a new idea. This was something the intelligence community probably started 15 years ago. >> And the cost structure-- >> Yeah. >> Is just a cost structure. >> Reduce the cost as-- >> Yeah. >> As the optimization behavior. What you're saying is just like Apple cases are tied to top line revenue, which gives them power-- >> Yeah. >> And mojo, you got-- >> Security. >> You got to think of security as a money saving table stake. >> That's right. >> People are losing money. The costs are now becoming obvious. >> Yeah. >> And in some cases crippling. >> Yes, so I think people need to think of security as fundamental to the life of a company, number one. I think the other thing that needs to happen from a security perspective, now that we've broken off this entity, is that security needs to become threat based or risk based. Too much of a merit security in the United States is based on compliance models. Unfortunately cyber attackers do not follow that model when they want to attack us. They basically work outside the model and come up with creative ways to get inside-- >> Yeah. >> Of organization. >> And basically blindside-- >> That's right. >> bleeding the companies. >> Yeah, so I can't tell you how many meetings, probably all, where I meet the security team and they're totally busy just going through this list of 20 or 50 things they're supposed to do. So when you talk about attack vectors, they say, "You know that's really great and I know "it's important but we can't "get to it." So this is another important shift organizationally. First break it out, second get focus on something that's important. >> Yeah. >> Once we have that, we get to the next part, which is technologies, and right now what happens is people buy a security point product for different networks; one for data center, one for cloud, and this doesn't work. So I think we have to move to security solutions that can work across hybrid environments and can also work across different roles. I think that is kind of critical. Unless we get that in technically, I-- (laughs) >> Yeah, and this is the dynamic with cloud and the data center. I want to bring this up. I had a multiple chance to sit down with Andy Jassy who's the CEO of Amazon Web services. Fantastic executive, built a great business there. What's on his mind and what's been important for him for many years has been security. And Amazon has done an amazing job with security. But that's in the cloud. Now, Andy Jassy and Amazon thinks everyone should be in the public cloud. >> Yeah. >> Now they have a deal with VMware but they're just powering VMware's OnPrem in their cloud. It's not really their... VMware issue, but Amazon's world is everything's in the public cloud. But they've done really, really good on security. But yet most of the buyers would say, "Hey, the cloud "is unsecure, I can't trust it." So you have the dynamic between the data center on premise resource. So people kind of default to the behavior of I'm leaving everything on premise or I'm only putting a little on the cloud, a little bit of work loads here, a little bit in the Microsoft. Google's got some, I'll keep the tires on Google. But they're never really leaving the home base of the data center. >> Yeah. >> But yet some are arguing, and Dave Vellante my co-host on theCUBE talks about this all the time, there's actually more scale in the cloud, more data sharing going on in the cloud-- >> Yeah. >> And that the cloud actually has got better security. >> Yeah. >> So how do you see that resolving because this is a key architectural opportunity and challenge for enterprises. >> So I actually, I think there's an optimal model which is if you think about what the data center gives you, it gives you a lot of visibility and physical control, as in with your hands. The problem is when you put everything in the data center you don't have enough people to manage it all properly. The cloud on other hand gives you a lot of skill but you can't actually touch the cloud. So the optimal mix is, imagine your encryption and access control solutions live in your data center but what they control access to is to cloud resources. So you can actually... If you just open your mind conceptually, as-- >> So instead of saying... It's like segmenting a network, you're segmenting capability. >> That's right. So now you don't need a gigantic data center because what's in your data center which can be a lot smaller now, are things like your identity based access management solution, you can keep your cryptographic elements, you can have your HSM, things that generate random numbers and certs there. But now this is, actually can be very tiny. It could just be a rack of year. >> Yeah. >> But through that rack of year, you can have very fine control of people accessing cloud resources. And I think this idea of building, it's not so much a hybrid network, but it's a notion that a small physically locked down asset can control a lot of virtual assets is gaining a mind share in the banking world. In fact, just this summer there was a bank that implemented such an architecture where the control elements for the cloud when their FFIAC data center and it include... It basically managed access to Amazon DPCs and it worked well. >> So interlocking is a strategy, I can see that playing-- >> Yeah. >> And by the way I can see that playing very well. So I got to ask the next question which kind of comes to mind as, that sounds great-- >> Yeah. >> On paper, or actually in certain situations, it might be perfect. But what about the geopolitical landscape because Amazon has people that develop on the cloud that aren't U.S. citizens. >> Yeah. >> So the government might say, "Wait a minute. "You got to only employ Americans." So they got to carve out and do some whatever weird things with the numbers to get the certification. But they need data centers in Germany because the German government wants certain things. So you have geopolitical issues now on the companies. How does that affect security because now a cloud like Amazon or a multi-national company has two things going on. I had multiple offices and I've been operating in multiple geopolitical landscapes with these regional centers, the regional cloud, or on Amazon they're called regions. >> Yeah. >> Or zones. >> So actually Amazon actually has done a great job. They basically have their global market but they also have data centers now which are only open to U.S. persons and U.S. companies like GovCloud as well as the support C2S which is the intelligence community's black cloud, which is basically off net. So I think now-- >> So they're doing a good job, you think? >> Yeah, they're doing a good job. But the key thing is how you use that resource is really still up to the enterprise. And that's where enterprises have to get good at creating the architecture and policies to be able to harness Amazon's kind of compute capacity. Amazon can, it's kind of the foundation but you really have to finish off the solution. And the other thing, going back full circle to your first question, unless the security team has the freedom and the mandate to do that, they'll actually never get there. >> So it's staffing and architecture-- >> That's right. >> Well they're both architectural. It's just one's organizational architecture and funding and one is more of a hard core virtual and physical touching and understanding. >> Yeah, and you know what I'd put in the middle? I'd say know your risks and then develop counter measures to them. Because if you go to that security team and you say you have to build a counter measure for every attack, that's not going to work either. A company has to be realistic is what is really important (laughs) and maybe it's the data of our customers. (laughs) >> So the answer to the first question then, obviously is yes. >> Yeah. >> A security do-over is needed but there's no silver bullet. You can't buy an application. It's an architectural framework, wholistically. >> That's right. >> That everyone has to do. Okay, cool. So the question I have on the Amazon, I want to get your thoughts on this because the debate we have all the time on theCUBE is, and certainly Amazon has competitors that say, "Oh, Amazon's really not winning in the enterprise." They got thousands of enterprise customers. They are winning in the enterprise so Oracle's catching up, barely in fourth place, but trying to get there. And they're actually making that transformation, looking pretty good, we'll have more analysis on that Oracle open role. But Amazon has won great GovCloud deals. >> Yes. >> So they've kind of convinced the government that they could do it. >> Yeah. >> To me that's... My argument is if the government's winning with Amazon, it should be a no brainer (laughs) for the enterprises. So this comes back down to the number one question that's been, quote, holding back cloud growth. Whoa, security, I don't want to put it in the cloud. How real is that objection now? 'Cause knee jerk reaction is, "You know what, "I got it OnPrem, I don't trust the cloud." But it seems like the cloud is getting more trust. What's your thoughts on that on changing? >> Yeah, actually, so one of the things is even though we use the word cloud kind of generically or Amazon generically, Amazon has evolved a lot in the last three to four years that I've been working on it. The number of embedded tools on Amazon is vast now. If we were having this conversation two years ago the notion that granular encryption modules would be there in Amazon as a part of an offering, it would've been science fiction. Or the fact that-- >> More than S3 and EC2. What else could they do? (laughs) >> That's right, or they have things like virtual HSM, they have embedded identity access control tools all there. So I think, first of all, all of the building blocks that you would want are there. Now unfortunately there's no short cuts. Amazon's not going to do the work for you. You still need a staff that knows how to use digital certificates. You still need your own identity based access control system to manage access of your employees and contractors and people in India to these assets in the cloud. But having said that, we now actually have a model that is much cheaper than the classic data center model that's basically usable. >> I'm smirking because some people think I'm an Amazon Web services fan boy but besides the fact that I love the company, they've done well and there's so many new services. >> Yeah. >> And they've literally been skating rings around the competition. >> Yeah. >> If you look at the complexity that they've been dealing with and the innovation, so I'll put that out there, a little bit biased because I think they're doing a great job, but now the game starts to shift. As Amazon continues to add more services welcome to the big leagues called the enterprise in government which they're doing some business in now. So the question is, besides Amazon, there's other guys. >> Yeah. >> Verizon, the Telco's have been really trying to figure out what to do with over the top for years. (laughs) Now they're also powering a lot of multi-tenant workloads as well including their own stuff. >> Yeah. >> So Telco and service providers out there, what are they doing because they're still critical infrastructure around the world? >> So actually I think if we just use Amazon as a reference point or example, Amazon initially didn't worry about security but then over the last few years, worked hard to integrate security into their offering. We're now in the early stages of seeing that from, for example carriers like Verizon, where in the past Verizon was saying first secure yourself then in the last two years, Verizon said, "Okay, here's "some products and services you can buy." Now where we're heading is what they're trying to make the network inherently secure. A lot of the basic components like device matching to identity matching, basically-- >> Yeah. >> Making that a part of the underlying fabric. So I think the good news is as-- >> So they're making advances there? >> Yeah. >> Well they have networks. >> Yeah. >> They know networking. >> Yeah, so the good news is as bleak as this all seems, we are making significant progress as an industry and as a country. Having said that, my only warning is you still need an executive team, a security team that knows how to leverage all of these components and pull them together. And that goes back to having a risk based approach and protecting the most important things. And I think if you can do that, I think the tool set that's come out now is actually pretty sophisticated. >> So final question, I want to get your thoughts and we can end this segment and then we'll talk a little bit about Vidder and your company. But I asked Pat Gelsinger, CEO of VMware, at VMworld just recently about the security do-over. Because Dave Vellante asked him years ago. >> Yeah. >> He said, "Absolutely, there's going to be a do-over!" So Pat Gelsinger is right again. The guy's like Nostradamus when it comes to tech trends. He's a wave guy from Intel so he gets the waves. But I asked him about that question again this year and I'll send the clip on Twitter. I'll put it out on Twitter, I'll make a link to it. He said that 5G is going to be the big kahuna of the next 30 years and he thinks that 5G starts to get out it's going to deliver 10 X number of antennas, 100 extra bandwidth, new spectrum allocations, 100 X new devices, that are all going to be connected as well. As you mentioned we're a connected world. This brings up the edge of the network he says, "Next five years is going to... "Next 30 years is going to be a massive build out." >> Yeah. >> So okay, 5G is coming. Industrial IOT, IOT, the Internet of Things is happening. How is this going to change the security game? Because now you have networking and you see VMware doing NSX and Cisco's been trying to get to the enterprise figuring out the virtualization on a network level. Everything comes back down to the network. Is that where the action is because it seems to me that the network guys have to figure this out and that seems to be the point of reference of the terms of opportunity or is it a challenge or is it moving up the stack? How does all the networking changes happen? >> So for IOT we really need two things to happen. I think one is we actually don't have a security standard for IOT devices and specifically the issue is malware. IOT devices and their software is made worldwide. And I think one of the biggest policy weaknesses we have right now is there's no minimum standard. This needs to be solved otherwise we're in a lot problem. But in parallel to that, there is a lot of technical development. One of the things that's happening in the networking world is for the past 20 years we were driven by what's called a network VPN, or layer three VPN, it's your classic VPN that connects a device to a server. The problem with that is if you have malware on the device it gets through. So there's this new kind of VPN which is an application VPN, or we call it a layer four, which is basically a softer process in the device to a softer process in a server. So that's kind of the new model which is-- >> So make the network as dumb as possible and go up the stack and attack it? >> Yeah, well not so much-- >> Well I'm over simplifying-- >> Or reaction-- >> The network guys are going to roll in the-- >> I was going to use a different term. I was going to say make the-- >> The dumb pipes. >> Make the network application aware so that it only lets applications get through not any kind of connection. So I think that is something happening. >> Well the networks have to be smarter. >> Yeah, so-- >> That enable the smartness. >> So smarter networks are happening and it's an area that I work in, it's very excited. >> I don't mean to offend you by saying dumb network. >> Yeah, but the application... To be clear though, that's just one piece of the puzzle. The other piece of the puzzle, which unfortunately is a little bit lacking, is there's no standards for IOT software today. >> Yeah. >> And unless we have concepts like secure boot that is the software can't be tampered with, I think unfortunately there's a bit of risk. But I'm hopeful-- >> And then IOT, for the folks watching that might not be in the inside baseball know it's a surface area problem. There's more points of attack-- >> Yeah. >> Vectored. So we're talking about the compliance thing. >> Not only are there more attacks, by and large IOT devices are made outside the United States. Physically they're made in China and a lot of the software comes from India and there's nothing wrong with that but the global supply chain provides plenty of opportunities for cyber attackers to inject in their code. >> Yeah. >> And this is something we need to watch very carefully and then like I said-- >> So this is actually one of those weird derivative results of outsourcing. >> Yeah. >> That American companies have realized that it's a problem. >> Yeah. So it's-- >> Is that right? >> Yeah so it's something we need to watch carefully. >> Okay, thanks for coming on theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> We really appreciate you sharing your perspectives. Tell me what Vidder, your president and CTO, you guys are in the security business, obviously you're an expert. With great call we'll have you back on multiple times. We'd love to get your commentary as we follow all the security trends. We have a Cyber Connect Conference with Centrify-- >> Yeah. >> Coming up in New York. We're covering GovCloud, AWS, and all the other players out there. What's Vidder doing? What's the company do for products? How do you guys sell, who's your customers, and what are the cool things you're doing? >> We've developed a access control solution based on a new standard called Software Defined Perimeter. And there's two things that are unique about it. First with a name like, technology is like Software Defined Perimeter, we work in the cloud in the data center but more importantly we're able to stop existing attacks and emerging attacks. So things like password theft, credential theft, or server exploitation, we stop because we don't allow connections from unknown devices or people. But the other thing is say you're known and you connect to a server, we basically look inside your laptop and only allow the authorized process to connect to the server. So if there's malware on the device it can actually make it through. >> So it's just on the malware? >> That's right. >> If you want to sneak through-- >> That's right. >> You're going to shut that down. >> We can't stop the malware from getting on the device but we can make sure it doesn't get to the other side. >> So it doesn't cross-pollinate. >> Yeah, yeah. >> It doesn't go viral. >> That's right. So a lot of the stuff we do is very important. We work with a range of big-- >> You have government, obviously, contracts. >> Yeah, we-- >> I'm sure you have, that you can't talk about, but you do, right? >> We do a little bit of work with the government and we're just working with Verizon which is public, where they wish to create services where malware actually can't go through the connections. So we're doing exciting stuff and we're-- >> Enterprise customers at all? >> Yeah, yeah. We have banks-- >> People who are on high alert. >> That's right, yeah. >> You guys are the tier one. >> That's right. >> Where if the houses are burning down-- >> Yeah. >> You're there. >> So we do banks and we just started doing work at a hospital where, again, it's HIPAA compliant and they need to make sure that data doesn't leave the hospital. So what's the number one thing that you guys have? Is Ransomware something that you solve? What areas do you guys... Being called in? What's the big fire bell, if you will, they ring the bell, when do you come in? What's the thing? Just in general or? >> Our number one reason for existing is stopping attacks on application servers or servers that hold data. That's kind of our focus so if you have data or an application that someone is after, we will make sure that nobody gets to that data. In fact we'll even make sure if there's a spy or insider attacker who comes into your organization they'll only be able to do what they're allowed to do and won't be able to do anything else. >> So on the Equifax news that was big, would you guys help there if they were a customer or is that just a different thing? >> No, we could've helped because one of the things that happened is they used a server exploit to basically propagate through their data center. So we probably wouldn't have done much on the initial exploit but we would've kept it from going deeper into the system. >> And they hid for four months and they were poking around so you would've detected them as well. >> Yeah, we certainly would've stopped all the poking around because we basically... You can think of us as identity based access control mechanism so based on your identity you can only do very specific things. And in their case, they had the identity of the user. We wouldn't have let them do anything except maybe just go to one website. >> Yeah, you would shut them down manually. >> That's right. >> They should've been doing business with Vidder. Junaid thank you for coming on theCUBE here for the CUBEConversation. In Palo Alto, California I'm John Furrier with the CUBEConversation. Thanks for watching. (the Cube jingle)

>> Narrator: Live from the Javits Center in New York City. It's the Cube, covering the Inforum 2017. Brought to you by Infor. >> We are wrapping up the Cube's day two coverage of conference here in New York City at Inforum. My name is Rebecca Knight, along with my cohost Dave Vellante. We're joined by Dan Barnhardt. He is the Infor Vice President of Communications. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Yes, thank you for having me. Thank you for being here two days in a row. >> It's been a lot of fun. We've had a great time. So yeah, congratulations, it's been a hugely successful conference, a lot of buzz. Recap it for us, what's been most exciting for you? >> Sure, this was our second year having a forum in New York, which is our home town. I think it was a more exciting conference than last year. We unveiled some incredible development updates, led by Coleman, our AI offering, which is an incredible announcement for us, as well as Networked CloudSuites, which takes the functionality from our GT Nexus commerce network, and bakes it into our CloudSuites, the mission critical industry CloudSuites, that we offer on the Amazon Web Services cloud. Those were really exciting developments, as well as some other announcements we made with regard to product. And then, in addition to product, we had a lot of customer momentum that we shared. Last year, we had customers like Whole Foods and Travis Perkins up here. We continued the momentum with big enterprise customers making big bets on Infor, led by Koch Industries who invested more than two billion dollars this year at Infor, and are now modernizing their human resources and their financial operations with Infor CloudSuites. Moving to the cloud HR for 130,000 employees at Koch Industries which is an incredible achievement for the product, and for cloud HR. And, that's very exciting, as well as other companies like FootLocker, which were recognized with the Innovation Award for our Progress Makers Award. They're using talent science, data science to power their employees, not to power their employees, but to drive their employees towards greater productivity and greater happiness, because they've got the right people in the right fit for FootLocker, that's very exciting. And, of course, Bank of America, our Customer of the Year, which uses our HR solutions for their workforce, which obviously is exceptionally large. >> Yes, there was a great ceremony this morning, with a lot of recognition. So, let's talk a little bit more about Coleman, this was the big product announcement, really the first product in AI for Infor. Tell us a little bit about the building blocks. >> For certain. We have a couple of AI offerings now, like predictive hotel pricing, predictive demand and assortment planning in retail, but we have been building towards Coleman and what we consider the age of networked intelligence for multiple years. Since we architected Infor CloudSuite to run mission critical ERP in the cloud, we developed the capability of having data, mission critical data that really runs a business, your manufacturing, finance, distribution core functions, in the cloud on AWS, which gives us hyper-scale compute power to crunch incredible data. So, that really became possible once we moved CloudSuite in 2014. And then in 2015, we acquired GT Nexus, which is a commerce network that unites, that brings in the 80 percent of enterprise data that lies outside the four walls, among suppliers, and logistics providers, and banks. That unified that into the CloudSuite and brought that data in, and we're able to crunch that using the compute power of AWS. And then last year at Inforum, we announced the acquisition of Predictix, which is a predictive solutions for retail. And when building those, Predictix was making such groundbreaking development in the area of machine learning that they spun off a separate group called Logicblox, just to focus on machine learning. And Inforum vested heavily, we didn't talk a lot about Logicblox, but that was going to deliver a lot of the capabilities along with Amazon's developments with Lex and Alexa to enable Coleman to come to reality. So we were able then to acquire Birst. Birst is a BI program that takes, and harmonizes, the data that comes across CloudSuite and GT Nexus in a digestible form that with the machine learning power from Logicblox can power Coleman. So now we have AI that's pervasive underneath the application, making decisions, recommending advice so that people can maximize their potential at work, not have to do more menial tasks like search and gather, which McKenzie has shown can take 20 percent of your work week just looking for the information and gathering the information to make decisions. Now, you can say Coleman get me this information, and Coleman is able to return that information to you instantly, and let you make decisions, which is very, very exciting breakthrough. >> So there's a lot there. When you and I talked prior to the show, I was kind of looking for okay, what's going to be new and different, and one of the things you said was we're really going to have a focus on innovation. So, in previous Inforums it's really been about, to me anyway, we do a lot of really hard work. We're hearing a lot about acquisitions, certainly AI and Coleman, how those acquisitions come together with your, you know, what Duncan Angove calls the layer cake, you know the wedding cake stack, the strategy stack, I call it. So do you feel like you've achieved those objectives of messaging that innovation, and what's the reaction then from the customer base? >> Without a doubt. I wouldn't characterize anything that we said last year as not innovative, we announced H&L Digital, our digital transformation arm which is doing some incredible custom projects, like for the Brooklyn Nets, essentially money balling the NBA. Look forward to seeing that in next season a little bit, and then more in the season to come. Some big projects with Travis Perkins and with some other customers, care dot com, that were mentioned. But this year we're unveiling Coleman, which takes a lot of pieces, as Duncan said sort of the wedding cake, and puts them together. This has been a development for years. And now we're able to unveil it, and we've chosen to name it Coleman in honor of Katherine Coleman Johnson, one of the ladies whose life was told in the movie Hidden Figures, and she was a pioneer African-American woman in Stem, which is an important cause for us. You know, Infor years ago when we were in New Orleans unveiled the Infor Education Alliance program so that we can invest in increasing Stem education among young people, all young people with a particular focus on minorities and women to increase the ranks of underrepresented communities in the technology industry. So this, Coleman, not only pays honor to Katherine Johnson the person, but also to her mission to increase the number of people that are choosing careers in Stem, which as we have shown is the future of work for human beings. >> So talk a little bit more about Infor's commitment to increasing number to increasing, not only Stem education, but as you said increasing the number of women and minorities who go into Stem careers. >> Certainly. We, you know Pam Murphy who is our chief operating officer, this has been an incredibly important cause to her as well as Charles Phillips our CEO. We launched the Women's Infor Network, WIN, several years ago and that's had some incredible results in helping to increase the number of women at Infor. Many years ago, I think it was Google that first released their diversity report, and it drew a lot of attention to how many women and how many minorities are in technology. And they got a lot of heat, because it was about 30, 35 percent of their workforce was female, and then as other companies started rolling out their diversity report, it was a consistent number between 30 to 35 percent, and what we identified from that was not that women are not getting the jobs, it's that there aren't as many women pursuing careers in this type of field. >> Rebecca: Pipeline. >> Yes. So in order to do that, we need to provide an environment that nurtures some of the specific needs that women have, and that we're promoting education. So we formed the WIN program to do that first task, and this year on International Women's Day in early March, we were able to show some of the results that came from that, particularly in senior positions, SVP, VP, and director level positions at Infor. Some have risen 60 percent the number of women in those roles since we launched the Women's Infor Network just a couple of years ago. And then we launched the Education Alliance Program. We partnered with institutions, like CUNY the City University of New York, the New York Urban League, and universities now across the globe, we've got them in India, in Thailand and China, in South Korea to help increase the number of people who are pursuing careers in Stem. We've also sponsored PBS series and Girls Who Code, we have a hack-athon going on here at Inforum with a bunch of young people who are building, sort of, add-on apps and widgets that go to company Infor. We're investing a lot in the growth of Stem education, and the next generation. >> And by the way, those numbers that you mentioned for Google and others at around 30, 34 percent, that's much better than the industry average. They're doing quote, unquote well and still far below the 50 percent which is what you would think, you know, based on population it would be. So mainly the average is around, or the actual number's around 17 percent in the technology business, and then the other thing I would add is Amazon, I believe, was pretty forthcoming about its compensation, you know. >> Salesforce really started it, Marc Benioff. >> And they got a lot of heat for it, but it's transparency is really the starting point, right? >> It was clear really early for companies like Salesforce, and Amazon, and Google, and Infor that this was not something that we needed to create talking points about, we were going to need to effect real change. And that was going to take investment and time, and thankfully with leadership like Charles Phillips, our CEO, and Marc Benioff were making investments to help make sure that the next generation of every human, but particularly women and minorities that are underrepresented right now in technology, have those skills that will be needed in the years to come. >> Right, you have to start with a benchmark and then know where you're moving from. >> Absolutely, just like if you're starting a project to transform your business, where do you want to go and what are the steps that are going to help you get there? >> Speaking of transforming your business, this is another big trend, is digital transformation. So now that we are at nearing the end of day two of this conference, what are you hearing from customers about this jaunting, sometimes painful process that they must endure, but really they must endure it in order to stay alive and to thrive? >> Without a doubt. A disruption is happening in every industry that we're seeing, and customers across all of the industries that Infor serves, like manufacturing, healthcare, retail, distribution, they are thinking about how do we survive in the new economy, when everything is digital, when every company needs to be a technology company. And we are working with our customers to help first modernize their systems. You can't be held back by old technology, you need to move to the cloud to get the flexibility and the agility that can adapt to changing business conditions and disruptions. No longer do you have years to adapt to things, they're happening overnight, you must have flexible solutions to do that. So, we have a lot of customers. We just had a panel with Travis Perkins, and with Pilot Flying J, who was on the Cube earlier, talking about how their, and Cook Industries our primary investor now, talking about how they're re-architecting their IT infrastructure to give them that agility so they can start thinking about what sort of projects could open up new streams of revenue. How could we, you know, do something else that we never thought of, but now we have the capability to do digitally that could be the future of our business? And it's really exciting to have all the CIOs, and SVPs of technology, VPs of technology, that are here at Inforum talking about what they're doing, and how they're imagining their business. It's really incredible to get a peek at what they're doing. >> You know, we were talking to Debbie earlier. One of the interesting things that I, my takeaway is on the digital transformation, is you know, we always say digital is data and then what we talked about was the ability to traverse industry value change, not just vertically but horizontally. Amazon buying Whole Foods is a perfect example, Amazon's a content company, Apple's getting into financial services. I wonder if you could comment on your thoughts on because you're so deep into micro-verticals, and what Debbie said was well I gave a consumer package good example to a process manufacturing company. And they were like what are you talking about, and she said look, let me connect the dots and the light bulbs went off. And they said wow, we could take that CPG example and apply it, so I wonder when we talk about digital transformation, if you see or can foresee your advantage in micro-verticals as translating across those verticals. >> Without a doubt. We talk about it as adjacent innovation. And Charles points back to an example, way back from the creation of the niche in glass, and how that led to additional businesses and industries like eyeglasses and fire preparedness, and we look at it that way for certain. We dive very deep into key industries, but when we look at them holistically across and we say oh, this is happening within the retail industry, we can identify key functionality that might change the industry of disruption, not disruption, distribution. Might disrupt the distribution industry, and we can apply the lessons learned by having that industry specialization into other industries and help them realize a potential that they weren't aware of before, because we uncovered it in one place. That's happening an awful lot with what we do with retail and assortment planning and healthcare. We run 70 percent of the large hospitals in the US, and we're learning a lot from retail and how we might help hospitals move more quickly. When you are managing life and death situations, if you are planning assortment or inventory for those key supplies within a hospital, and you can make even small adjustments that can have huge impact on patient care, so that's one of the benefits of our industry-first strategy, and the adjacent innovation that we cultivate there. >> I know we're not even finished with Inforum 2017, but we must look ahead to 2018. Talk a little bit about what your goals for next year's conference are. >> For sure. You're correct, we're not finished yet with Inforum. I know everyone here is really excited about Bruno Mars who's entertaining tonight, but we are looking forward to next year's conference as well, we're already talking about some of the innovative things that we'll announce, and the customer journeys that are beginning now, which we'd like to unveil there. We are going to be moving the conference from New York, we're going to move to Washington DC in late-September, September 24th to 27th in Washington DC, which we're very excited about to let our customers, they come back every year to learn more. We had seven thousand people attending this year, we want to give them a little bit of a variety, while still making sure that they can reach, you know, with one stop from Europe and from Asia, cause customers are traveling from all over the world, but we're very excited to see the growth that would be shared. This year, for instance, if you look at the sponsors, we had our primary SI partner Avaap was platinum partner last year. In addition to Avaap this year, we were joined by Accenture, and Deloitte, Capgemini, Grant Thorton, all of whom have built Infor practices over the last 12 months because there's so much momentum over our solutions that that is a revenue opportunity for them that they want to take advantage of. >> And the momentum is just going to keep on going next year in September. So I'll see you in September. >> Yeah, thank you very much. I appreciate you guys being here with us for the third year, second year in a row in New York. >> Indeed, thank you. I'm Rebecca Knight for Dave Vellante, we will have more from Inforum 2017 in a bit.