you live from Miami Beach Florida 2019 brought to you by V we're back this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage we're here in Miami this is a wrap of v-mon 2019 two days of coverage I'm Dave Volante with my co-host Peterborough's our third year covering v-mon we started in New Orleans we've seen you know veeam go from what they called at this show act one to act two and we talked two years ago about you know to the our first V Mon about the ascendancy of Veeam being so tightly tied to the rise of virtualization and now we heard this year act to being cloud multi cloud and we heard a number of announcements that are in support of that we're going to talk about that but Peter there were three key announcements this week one was the the billion dollar you know milestone they actually you know they finally hit a billion dollars I've been talking about it for a while it's now official billion dollars on a trailing 12-month basis they're a profitable company veem and a focused billion dollar yeah I think that's really a very focused I mean they do some M&A but not a lot of M&A and that's because of NIH I mean you know these guys they trust themselves to write code it's also it's also sustained that simple value proposition right and that's a in a fundamental Dogma I think I think it's fair to say we we heard the announcement of the the the with Veeam a API infrastructure which which is key we're going to talk about that we I think there were two companies they announced partnerships with Nutanix with mine and exa grid both taking advantage of that there will be others can ring doll just told us you know maybe 10 to 12 it's not going to be an enormous number at least for secondary storage yeah but and but that'll knock down a large portion of the infrastructure market and then a Veeam availability Orchestrator version 2 which allows you to do if fast backups recover from from backups without having to go to a replicated you know off-site and some other capabilities they call the dynamic documentation and automating testing and some DevOps capabilities so you know the people seem pretty excited about that it wasn't a sea of announcements like you see it some of these things which I think Peter talks to the degree of focus that you were just mentioning you know they're not about your bragging rights and the number of announcements that they can make you know it's really all about extending that platform a lot of incremental announcements ratmir told us not a big roadmap company even though he did show a roadmap today but the roadmap he showed was a lot of near-term functional improvement so very function rich you know the the tagline of it just works but um let's see I think there's the first time you and I have done v-mon together I've been here your impressions look I love wandering the halls and talked into the actual attendees and seeing what they have to say so I spent about an hour hour and a half just doing some work in one of the hallways here and one of the reasons I do that is because it's an opportunity here with the attendees and the customers are talking about and what's important to them you've got a lot of these shows and everybody's buzzing about one or another product announcement you go here and everybody's talking about the problems that they're solving and I think that one of the reasons why we didn't have this frenzy of product announcements like we have in so many other places because the focus is though because a lot of companies want the focus to be on them I think what we heard here or what I heard here somewhat different was again customers trying to solve the problems and Veeam creating an opportunity for them to talk in terms of some of the new directions and some of the new products that being are being introduced but the focus stayed on the customer and the problems of trying to solve and that's that's what to my mind that's what successful companies focus on yeah and I come back to this notion of the with Veeam the whole API integration cloud hybrid cloud the edge V wants to be and they've laid they laid this vision out you know certainly last year and even started the year before of of essentially being that that that backup capability data protection capability across wherever your data lives you know on from in cloud now they really are focused on on backup and data protection they even say backups where it starts a lot of other companies like don't even use the term backup no it's not about backup it's about data management and data protection so it's interesting that veem is really focused on on backup and when you do what you did and talk to the customers what do you use the V for backup backup backup backup and so so they're not over rotating to that vision now they're many of their competitors are going hard after that and doing some great great marketing so the competitive dynamics are very interesting now you got cohesive e you got rubric doing really well with positioning as a modern architecture in veeam definitely not a legacy company their business is growing you've got you've got CommVault you've got Dell EMC Veritas IBM you know trying to hit single-digit growth trying not to decline I mean IBM in particular declined and then and really had to do a deal with CAD illogic to stop veem from eating its market share that's really what that deal was all about you saw Dell EMC kind of take its eye off the ball when it merged with with Dell EMC you know it was the leader in in purpose-built backup appliances it's made some announcements recently to try to get you know it's got some really good start back in the game right so you know you don't ever count those guys out Comicon vaults approached it differently they've got a large install base you know Veritas went through private equity and so they had some some other challenges but again they're investing and so it's a big market you know people are gonna go fight hard for it and then and then with with the outside funding that's come in it's really up the game now a lot of that funding is gonna go to promotion which again comes back to your point about focused R&D really really important to focus R&D on things that customers want that you're gonna solve a business problem so if you go back and just just to take your segmentation and we can kind of look at it in a couple of perhaps simple ways you've got you've got you've got veem and companies like beam who saw the hole virtualization and the need to do a better job of supporting and protecting and and replicating and backing up virtualized resources all hitting the market pretty hard and then you have the Delhi MCS and a lot of the other companies that you mentioned trying to sustain or keep pace with those guys and then you have the new guys the Dhruv is and what not are we talking about just cross cloud multi cloud backup on top of that you have and something we talked about with a couple of guests the security guys are looking at this and saying wait a minute you know data is data and protection and security are going to be increasingly difficult to separate because data is going to move and I have to be able to move security with the data it's going to be an inevitability it's we're talking about a cloud that allows us to more do more distribution of data because we're gonna do more distribution of work and the security is gonna have to move for the data so the security guys are gonna get in this the networking guys are gonna be asked some questions about the opportunity you got the old guard who is more focused on devices and managing and backing up devices trying to get back in you got the new guys you're saying let's let's lead the the the act to before you know the veins get there it's gonna be an extremely complex market but all of its gonna boil down to this simple fact I'm gonna distribute data in response to the work that needs to be performed and how am I going to manage the digital assets that I have to make that easy so that it doesn't explode and all of these companies at some point kind of the next phase of this is going to be on protecting data but can I turn it into a digital asset so here's what I saw I saw them talking about the idea of you know what we're gonna protect locally I'll suggest it over the course the next couple of years it's going to be we're gonna do you know data asset management with protection with where the actual act of protecting it is similar to the act of defining it as an asset so being able to you know use a a snapshot for a lot of different uses already happening now but adding services you know a consistent set of services on top of that through with veem and other resources allow them to do that and then move more of that what's today regarded as replication function into that protection side of things a lot more support for locally because that's where the services are going to become having the services are not having the services it's really going to be an essential question because we're gonna move more of this data out to where the work is going to be profound we often talk about customers having to place bets but but the the the vendors are having to place bets as well they're obviously betting on multi-cloud but but juxtapose for example what themes doing it was interesting to hear ken ring doll he answered your question about whether it was em through M&A and he answered in an M&A context but or maybe organic development around more security functions and he kind of said Never Say Never but really focused the team the engineering team is really focused on backup and data protection and what they call data management juxtapose that now with way say for instance what a daydream is doing X data domain guys built their own file system trying to bring both primary and secondary stores together yeah and which I like and I think it's really powerful themes taking a different approach they're saying and with with VM api's we're gonna partner with pure we're gonna partner with with Cisco we're gonna partner with Nutanix so different approach and they're gonna obviously you know claim the same capability hey we can do that too you know date tree I'm saying well we can do that too with just one mousetrap you know the integration points etc so it's gonna really be interesting to see how that all shakes out that that word seamless you know I said it sometimes triggers me if it really is seamless you know theme has a go to market advantage relative to you know the the Swiss Army knife approach if it's not seamless then you know ad atrium approach will have an event it's from a product standpoint you and I both know there's so much more to success than just having a great product absolutely you know and mentioned it but but here's you know it's interesting one of the thought about what will the roadmap the practical roadmap because FEMA's altered its roadmap in response to customer demand quite frankly very successfully and and and and you know you got to applaud him for doing so but one of the things we heard was it look we don't want we don't want to over promise on the engineering front because you've got a certain number of Engineers and a certain engineering capacity focus them on things that are creating value to the problems you're trying to solve the same things true within a lot of user shops you don't want to throw a whole bunch of new function to new requirements and a bunch of guys who are still themselves trying to evolve from backing up devices to now actually protecting data and and so there's a there's a natural evolution that's going to take place and I and I think veeam that's done a pretty good job of keeping their finger on what that pulse is it's it's what can be invented but also what can be innovated if we think of innovation as the customer adopting and applying it and betting it and changing their activities around it and I think themes done a pretty good job of navigating you know that what can customers really do right now not getting too far ahead so a lot of these guys that the natural tendency that you come from a product perspective and you say put more into the product and you know get the better check marks and you know have the better it's better statute is better factsheet and I think Veeam is taking a simpler approach almost an apple like approach is an enterprise sense and saying look give them what they can a candle give them what they can use give them what's going to generate value and as they master that give them a little bit more it reminds me of is you said Apple it reminds me of early EMC days when EMC brought out you know it's symmetric it was it would connect you know AIX solaris unisys obviously the IBM mainframe it had all the optionality all the connectivity and that's kind of what would be and then the features that it announced were really practical they clearly solved the problem now since then you know MCS evolved into the checkbox so we have more features than anybody that's what happens when you everybody wants right you have the customer base everybody wants and they say check we have that thin provisioning we have that too and you know we're gonna freeze the market that's the you know much more mature company in their defense it's also in response to an increasingly specialized and complex customer base they're trying to cover all the base and you know competitive guys eating that they're absolutely absolutely and the sales guys saying hey we need something and they've done a great job of doing that but but Veeam is very very focused on the optionality in four years they they wouldn't talk about bare metal and a couple of years ago would beam on the big thing was hey we said for years that were only virtualization well guess what now we do bare metal that was sort of the one the big announcement one year so they're they're very judicious about how they allocate their R&D you know capital and in you're seeing that you know translate into function that actually gets used actually give yeah I think it's a key point I think your analogy with EMC is actually really good Dave because if you go back thirty years when the EMC first started getting going what was the problem controllers on mainframes and mini-computers were getting incredibly complex it's you know the Daddy controllers and the amount of processing that was being put into that in the microcode was just overwhelming most people's ability to deal with it and so MC came along and said well if that's the problem can we fix it we put cash in that'll just make this whole system simpler and then they stayed true to that for a number of years and they turn into a beer mark and it's interesting I think it is a good analogy because what is the problem the problem is data's going to be more distributed it's going to be more central to a company's mission it's gonna be used by more functions and repurposed into more applications that have a greater diversity of RTO and RPO and as a consequence they're saying they seem to be saying we're going to do our best to pose much function to that protect side of things local as we possibly can so that people who aren't PhDs in computer science to perform a real business service by making all that stuff work and then will at the same time work very closely with third parties who can bring specialization of that secondary storage to bear as the specialization increases because it's going to increase and the other the other you know China MB a case study example that I would point to is the early days of Veritas when Jim when Jeremy Burton was running Merrick marketing it Veritas II sort of coined the language Jeremy calling the no hardware agenda a pure software a lot of function and they you know rose to a couple of billion dollar you know in revenue you know very very successful now have the big install base that everybody wants to eat it's just again reminiscent the pure software company they're not shipping boxes they're not shipping appliances they're they're not selling direct their pure channel play there's a big tamp to just continue to do virtualization like the big question is are they going to will their focus on what they're currently doing translate into focus on multi cloud and here at this conference they're claiming yes we've heard nothing that suggests that they won't be able to but there's a lot of new players out there who are looking at that space and saying you know what I can do that too and there's gonna be a lot of invention a lot of investment and you know there's good reasons to suspect it beans gonna be able to evolve successfully but there are a few areas where I think they're gonna have to focus more time in the big part of a CEOs job is Tam expansion and you know right now there are you know a billion out of fifteen let's call it so there's a long way to go but as you point out that multi-cloud appears like it's gonna be lucrative and there's a lot of different companies coming at it from from different angles you guys tell me we look at it is this big blob yeah this is gonna be incredibly specialized very fragmented I mean you got Cisco coming at it from a networking perspective RedHat coming from a past perspective Google you know partnering everybody Amazon right now ignoring it but you guarantee they're gonna be awesome and Microsoft has to be in it because of the huge estate of on-prem you know software and there's a dozen security guys are gonna be looking at this and saying oh look data in motion that's my service now is going to get its pieces so very interesting how that's all gonna shake out it's okay so wrap it up Peter you know kind of summarize your thoughts on the space v-mon so first beam on for me a lot of customers that we're talking about solving complex problems during their digital business transformation that's always good to hear got to a billion dollars that's a great milestone for any software company good reasons is the fact that beam is going to evolve into a company like Veritas like one of the big guys this is a company that's got legs and I think that the final one that I'd say not got legs but that they've got what it takes to be able to affect this transition they probably got the execution chops look we had a user on here who effectively said if you're not using if you're CIO and you're not using veem you're not competent and you know he said that that's not that's not a bad testimonial when you come down to it yeah and then the one thing that we have not talked about which is it shines through is culture yeah you know this company has a culture that is a winning culture it's a fun culture there's an accountability associated with it and and very customer orientation solutely up so that's the winning formulas have been fun sort of watching these guys grow and interacting with a number of their customers and you saw you saw a couple years ago Veeam saying okay we're going Enterprise so I ain't so easy there's just say we're going enterprise but in interestingly even though they've somewhat retrenched from that messaging they're having success in the enterprise clearly with their partnerships with guys like HPE at Cisco and NetApp and and others and so they're just gonna let it bake a little bit and go from there position of strength which is that you know kind of s in an MB do more simply with your protection environment is not a bad story a company of any size right right and okay Peter hey you spent great working with you thank you and thank you for watching guys great job awesome go to Silicon angle comm you'll see all the news the cube net is where we host all these videos and you'll see wiki bond comm has all the research Peter recently wrote a great piece on on data protection and how that markets involving check out our Twitter at the cube and at the cube 365 Twitter handles you'll see all kinds of clips coming out of this show and other shows let's see where we got a lot coming up good for you and what do you think so I think you're seeing as I said before a very practical approach to gaining foothold and in maintaining and growing in a market I like the business model this this company has been somewhat opaque you know european-based you know the Russian founders but and and most of us businesses outside of the US and and I think they're really coming into the mainstream now and Cube helps make it more transparent yeah absolutely and right because you can ask the questions of people and you know you get you get all kinds of different answers so and we're able to have you know independence on you know guys like Justin the firm's like the four five one guys that you know Gartner coming on and and it's fun to have those guys so so it's been great thank you for watching the cube go to the cube dotnet check out the events that are coming up we got a huge huge season May and June or our busiest months take a slight break in July although you know we'll be cranking this summer as well so thank you for watching everybody we're out Dave a lot day for Peterborough's we'll see you next time

you live from Miami Beach Florida Biman 2019 brought to you by beam welcome back to Miami everybody this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage I'm Dave Volante with my co-host Peter burst we're wrapping up day two of v-mon 2019 and so we've been talking about cloud hybrid cloud data protection backup evolving to more of an automated data management environment can bring dollars here and he is in charge of really building out the VM ecosystem that he's the vice president of global alliance architecture at VM Kent great to see you again thanks for coming on yeah thanks Dave preciate so the ecosystem is evolving you know you're in a competitive marketplace but one of the things that differentiates Veeam is you know billion dollar company and people want to do business with your customers and so the ecosystem keeps growing and growing and you guys have some you know blue chip names at the top of your sponsor list we do a good job but you're not done yet so not at all and I think Dave you know it's it's really great to see how v-mon has evolved and you know in our partner ecosystem you know we have you know you talked about us hitting a billion dollars you know we rat marinelle's we hit 350,000 customers that customer number is a huge asset for us when we talked to our partners you know that is something that they're all trying to tap into right they love you know and our customers are really passionate and we have partners that come to us and they say hey look you know and that you know the bigger partners than us and they're saying hey will you please work with us will you please you know we want to do deeper integration because our customers you know are saying we're Veeam customers and and you you know you know mister partner you have to go work with teams so that so that our solutions will work better together so it's a it's a great asset to us yeah and it's it's evolved since you know it's just certainly just the first Vemma and I was at the very first one I think was we were talking was at the Aria whatever it was five years ago so so you know ecosystem is I think Jason Buffington was quoting Archimedes today and you know livre and and that ecosystem is is you know a huge opportunity for growth ok so let's get into it well first of all I want to ask you if time was interesting global alliance architecture yes so we're not talking technical architecture necessarily we're talking about what the architecture of the ecosystem or both yeah so some money you know my role my responsibilities and what my team looks after is everything technical related to our partners so veem we're a hundred percent is fee and you know ratmir and aundrea to co-founders and leaders to the company you know that that's something that they take to heart and it's something that's actually really valuable when we talk to our partners is we don't really overlap very much especially with the infrastructure partners that we have and so you know my job is to take the great products we have and make it work really well and go deep with our partners so create value with these partners there's sometimes their product integrations storage snapshot integrations we announced the width beam program two weeks ago we are together at that next with the rest of your team talking about Nutanix mine with theme which is a secondary storage integrated solution so all of those that's all part of my roles so solution architecture and product integrations you know through our partner ecosystem which which is very broad it stretches from storage partners to platform partners to other is feeds like Oracle SAT even healthcare partners yeah Peter we were excited about the width Eames stuff dat who is with Fein yours with Vemma yeah so my team is responsible for the overall architecture with Vemma it's it's really a joint collaboration within within Veeam so we have an R&D investment that's building the intellectual property that powers the you know the system under the covers my team's responsible for the broader architecture how we bring it together how we bring it to market through the channel right and and and how we bring it to our customers and that whole experience so my team is is intimately involved in that so a lot of people talk about inflection points in the industry and clearly were in the middle one way of describing it is that the first 50 years were known process unknown technology we never gonna do accounting we knew are going to do HR where you were going to do blah blah blah blah blah and there was mainframe client-server with a lot of other stuff but the whole notion of backup and restore and data protection grew up out of the complexity in the infrastructure as we move forward it's interesting because it's known technology it's gonna be cloud relatively known yes but what's interesting is we don't know what the processes are gonna be we don't know what we're gonna automate we don't know how we're going to change the business it's all going to be data driven which places an enormous burden on IT and specifically how they use data within the business so I'm gonna ask your question it's a long preamble but I'm asking the question I asked you out in there too and this is not the test but the question is look as we move forward as data is used to differentiate a business it suggests that there's going to be greater specialization in how data use is used which could and should lead to greater specialization in the role that veem and related technologies will play within the business and the question then is is the with veem approach a way to let allow innovation to bloom so that specialization can be accommodated and supported within the VM ecosystem yeah so yeah Peter good question and so I tell you that the short answer is yes the longer answer is I wasn't shorter than the short answer is yes the longer answer is it doesn't have to be with Veeam but really our goal and and what we want to empower our partners and so really the goal of with Veeam is hey we're already working across our partner ecosystem and we you know we work with with the likes of NetApp and HP and pure and Nutanix and you know and all the platform providers as well public clouds you know our goal is is to make VM ubiquitous and drive better value to our customers and through our partners right we need partners no matter what when we're working with a customer there's always there's always a workload we're protecting and we need a place to land our backup so no matter what we're always working with one or two partners in a deal and sometimes it's multiple because then you TR out to cloud storage and in other places you know with with veem what we're trying to do is is really simplify that process for customers and so make that process from the buying experience all the way through the delivery and the deployment and the management and the ongoing management day 1 and day 2 operations we want to make that all seamless and give them higher value now one thing we're looking to enable and by adding api's with veeam is we want to leverage the strengths of the partners we have and so you know I often end up in these discussions because we have a broad partner ecosystem we've already announced - with VM solutions we have a third that you know we did last year with Cisco that's in the market that's sort of similar in nature and we're gonna add more and you know the question our partners even ask us is you know you already got three of them why are you gonna add another one you know how am I going to differentiate and the answer is you know they differentiate with their own technology and and the idea is we have these open API so that they can they can build their own solutions they fit different markets and fit different use cases some are small small customer solutions some are enterprise but our goal is to enable them to be creative and how they build on top of eeeem but but have you know Veen be a core part of that solution rather so so it is a core part of solution yes apply to specific customer absolutely okay so the term seamless always you know triggers me in a way because seamless is like open right it's evolved over time and so what was seamless you know 10 years ago wasn't really seamless in today's terms so when you talk about seamless we're talking about if I understand it deep engineering right getting access to primitives through api's and creating solutions that are differentiable as a function of your partner's core value proposition and obviously integrating with meme with 350,000 customers so you're now in the ball game with with Veen customers so so so talk about the importance of api's and how that actually gets done yeah and seamless to whom to the partners to the customer to ultimately it's to the customer boom but but but there's got to be an ease of integration as well with the partners and I'd like to understand that better yeah absolutely so I'll give you an example of something we've done in the past that's that we're trying to model this with veem program after so but a year and a half as part of our 9.5 update 3 we introduced what we call universal storage API and we've talked about our version 10 there were five core features of version 10 when we announced that two years ago in New Orleans you're the first time you were you were with us at a v-mon and one of those was Universal storage API and what that means is you know we help we help our partners we help our customers ultimately by way of our partners on the primary side of integrating storage snapshots with vmware vsphere and so when we when we go to backup a vm we take a snapshot of that vm and with this with our storage snapshot integration we then take a storage snapshot of the volume that vm is on and we can release that VM where a snapshot very quickly so it's very low touch and low impact on the environment well we we introduced this API so that we could scale we had we had done our own storage snapshot and integration with you know call it 5 or 6 storage vendors over the previous seven years eight years right in the last year and a half we've added seven right and that's the scale we're talking about and allowing our partners to build the storage snapshot plug-in together right so we have a program we invite them into that program we collaborate on it they develop the plug-in we jointly test it and we release it and so we're trying to sort of take and that's been very successful as I said eight years five or six storage snapshot vendors year and a half we've done like another seven or eight so it's been very successful and we have more that are in queue so we'll be talking about more of these as time goes on in the very near future with the width beam program we're looking to do something very similar it's gonna be an invite-only program realistically the secondary storage partner is this the universe is probably 20 the logical universe for us is probably 10 to 12 so it's not going to be huge but it's gonna be impactful for our partners and so we'll invite them into the program we'll have an agreement of us working together we'll jointly develop and test it and we'll bring it to market together at the end of the day you know both our partner and veem we have our name on it and I'm sure you heard from rat mayor and Danny and others right we have our NPS score which we really really value and it's really high it's best in the industry and if we're putting our name on a solution in the market we also want to make sure that we're working on it together in it you know it really goes through the rigor of what it takes to bring a Vemma solution tomorrow actually you know what nobody's talked this week this week about the NPS core if they maybe they have in the keynote so that it might have missed it but well I was in the keynotes what is it today well yeah so so an NPS score is basically you know from from 0 to 100 it's it's you know we'll a customer reference you or recommend you right right and so ours is 73 ok the industry the the general average in in in our space is about 28 to 30 so we're about 2 and a half times that that's core you know and that's in Frank Zubin said to me one time it's easy to have a high NPS core if you're a one product company but you're not a one product company no no we've we've evolved substantially I mean you know we've we've added agents to cover physical workload we've we've added cloud support we've added other applications we've added veem availability Orchestrator we've added beam backup for office 365 we have VA C which is the availability console for our service providers which has cloud connected it's a very broad portfolio everything comes back to beam backup and replication as the flagship foundation but we have all these other products that that now help our customers solve their problems the reason we were so excited about this with wid theme is this notion of cloud and hybrid cloud and you talk about programmable infrastructure you really have been pushing just bringing the cloud experience to your data talking about that for a while and part of that has to be infrastructure as code and it can't really do that without open api's and this sort of seamless integration well the cloud is testing us with you as well the cloud is a really an architecture for how you're going to distribute work as opposed to how you can centralize Handicap I think for a long time we got it wrong it's all presumed and it's all gonna go to the center we're in fact when you get that level of standardization and common conventions and the technologies are built to make a tea that much easier it allows you to distribute the work a lot more effectively get the data closer to where the works going to be done and that is enormous implications for how we think about things but it also means that we when we talk about bringing the cloud to the data that the data has to be there the data services that make that data part of a broader fabric have to be there and it all has to be assured so that the system knows something about where the data is and what services can be applied to it in advance of actually moving the workloads that suggests ultimately that the technology set that veem is offering is going to evolve relatively rapidly so the whole notion of you know with V today for secondary storage but I could see that becoming something that you guys take two new classes of data service providers pretty quickly I don't want you to pre-announce anything but what do you think yeah Peter I think I think you're really on to something and when we when we sort of look at the worlds right the infrastructure world were in you know and and certainly some of our partners would draw a slightly different picture but we see Veen as as the common thread in the middle right because at the end of the day and I think you mentioned it as you were just talking there you know when we talk about hybrid cloud right we see now our customers especially commercial and enterprise and large enterprise customers it is it is a very heterogeneous environment it's multiple hypervisors different storage platforms it's multiple cloud providers because they're picking best to breed for the workload and so they need a platform that's got really breadth in depth of coverage and so the the one common thread we weave between there is Veeam right so if if we are that data protection layer as I mentioned before you know we're in the middle we're protecting a primary workload and we're writing our data to a secondary workload but in the middle is Veeam and so that workload we're protecting on Prem cloud secondary data centers theme is the thread in between there you can move that data around and wherever that is we can make use for now I'll give you a good example today you know let's say we're protecting a visa or workload on Prem right we back that up to it to assist them locally so we can have fast restore but ultimately we tear that out bean cloud tier capacity tear tear that's AWS so we can we can actually recover workloads in Atos one or two we have directory store which would take a backup from on-prem and directly move it there for DRAM migration purposes or we can simply consume that that backup that's now up in the cloud because Veen backups are self-describing we can lose the system on Prem and recover it so your point about making the data close to your workload with with veeam in the middle we enable that for our customers regardless of where they want to go yeah so we think that that's going to change the mindset from protection to assurance so assure your data is local and then it's the right data it's Integris and all the other things and then ultimately you know move it and back it up to some other site so it's but it's a subtle switch it's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out this is obviously well and as we talked about as you need to begin to protect things like containers like functions that come and go super quickly assurance has more meaning because there's the security threats and if you can help solve those problems through your partners through automation spinning containers up and down making it harder for the bad guys to you know a target a specific container raising essentially the cost so lowers their ROI that is a new game yeah and and I'll call out one thing a rat mayor I thought did a really good job on stage yesterday in his keynote he popped the slide which talked about the universal storage API and with theme and it had all our partners sort of around that you know that that I think he Illustrated our strategy which is hey we're focusing on the core parts of backup and replication and helping the core parts the data protection we're gonna partner with everything else that's adjacent to that we're not going to go solve maybe some of the security problems ourselves we're gonna enable some hooks secure restore maybe as an example we've announced you know in the technology keynote yesterday we announced a new API that allows partners to come in and crack open Veen backups and take a look at them one of the things could be deep inspection so you know our strategy and our goal is really to be open to our partners so that they can come in and add value and again our our goal for our customers is give them choice so give them choice of to choose best-of-breed solutions don't go do it and say hey you got to go use partner a you know hey we're gonna we're gonna have an API that others can build to and you go choose your best debris partner or your platform technology choice well and with 350,000 customers you've got a big observation space so guys have always been customer driven can give you the last word on vivant 2019 you're our last guest then we're gonna wrap with a little analysis on our end but give us the bumper sticker yeah I think the bumper sticker is hey you know we've you know from a business perspective you know we hit a billion dollars in bookings we have hit 350,000 customers the Innovation Train is really moving our Veen clouds here that we announced with update four earlier this year has gone way beyond our expectations and and we're looking to continue to build on that momentum so we're just super excited you know we if I'm the closer I'll say thanks to all of our sponsors we have a lot of great sponsors and on the cloud side on the on the Alliance partners side the channel side you know it's just it's it's a testament to where we are as a companies yeah and you're building out a great ecosystem congratulations on that and and good luck going forward and we'll see you around at the shows it's great it's great to have you guys right thank you all right you're welcome all right keep it right there everybody Peter and I went back to wrap right after this short break and watching the cube live from V Mon 2019 from Miami we'll be right back

>> live from Miami Beach, Florida It's the que covering demon 2019. Brought to you, by the way. >> Welcome back to Miami. Everybody watching the Cube, The leader in live tech coverage. This is Day two of the mon 2019 3 cubes. Third year at V mon, We did New Orleans. We did Chicago last year. Course here at the Fountain Blue in Miami. Great venue for an event like this. I'm Dave a lot. It was my co host, Peter Burroughs. Abba Dabbas. Eye is Adi is here. He's the head of a Charles Russell speech. Liza London based law firm. How about great. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Thankyou. So you tell us about this judge. Interesting name. Charles Russell. Speech lease. It was a merger of two firms, Right. Tell us how it all came about. >> Back in 2,014 Charles, loss of species performed for a merger between two different companies. Charles docile and speaks Lee Burcham from a 90 perspective. That was very interesting for the two departments coming together s So we have a limited time period where we had to merge these two companies Two different systems different data centers, different data sets. So it was formed by emerging back in 2,014 for five years on way here today >> that we see this a lot, you know, Emanate goes down. The acquiring company of this sounds like it was a merger. You know, they sort of battle. Okay, who's going toe? Really? Which framework is going to win? Because I'm sure had that conversation. But so to take us through that merger, what it entailed what? What the scenario looked like and how you plan for it. Sure. >> So I was part of the Charles. Also legacy Charles Russell team on, then obviously speaks about. Some had their own team as well. So initially, when we first found out about the merger, it was essential for the two teams to get together to work out. Okay, What systems? You have free mail. What systems you have for document management system playing trump cards. Which is who's got the best system and which way do we wantto move forward? A little. >> Ah, >> so but being a law firm, most law firms around the world and in the UK especially used the same types of software so essentially that from that perspective it was It was it was quite simple. But then way had to work out. How do we How do we go forward with this? Because two different headquarters in the London area. Which office do we move into? Sort of logistics around that. Can we fit in pre merger? It was six. Charles Lawson had sickle. Roughly 600 people, especially birds, had roughly 500 people. So pretty comparable. Yeah, yeah. So working out space logistics was was an issues >> making that even even more complicated, right? Yeah. >> One of the things that's interesting about a law firm, like versus a traditional manufacturer or AW financial services firm that has a lot of very fast right writing systems and have to scale on those lines is a law firms feature very complex dogs, very complex in from out of files, a lot of files that are written. But at the same time, you have to be repurposed to a lot of different work flows very sensitive to external contingent regulatory change. And so you have all of that happening, especially, I mean, two years ago from now on MySpace steak, and it was you're getting into brexit stuff, too, so that also had to be a source of uncertainty. So how has it been combining external regulatory issues the way that technology is being used in law firms and some of the new work clothes that you guys trying to support? And then adding, On top of that, the complexity of bringing these two firm GPR >> GPO itself was It was a year old project for us on. Obviously, we've got offices. The Middle East, but obviously is in the Far East on DH in Central Europe has well, so data logistics or where it sits, is an issue for us as well. So GDP, ours being a big project for us in terms of the merger itself. It was it was very, very difficult for the two I T departments to come together on actually work out. How how do we go to one unified systems? Essentially one doctor man, just in one email system. All of that took a lot of plan in law project management on essentially within the legal press itself. We got doubted in the time frames that we had that we can achieve it on within. I think It was 18 month period. We had merged order, different systems and various offices because speech the Bertram and Time is what I had. Offices in Zurich and Geneva were to merge with different offices together as well. So it was. It was a big, big task for the i T department on the firm itself. >> They're very tight migration deadlines. And and as you started to approach those deadlines you had to worry about, Okay, When we're going to cut over, how do we avoid downtime? How do we make sure that we don't? You know, I have bad data, data, corruption and the like. So how did you plan for that? And how did it go? >> So wait, we're here. C'mon on DH. Veen was It was it was a big part of our migration process. So where we had two different parts of the business Different storage systems, Different actualization system's way used to mean a CZ. The middleman basically, to my great data, from one day to center to another, using swink it. So where there was a large amount of terabytes and terabytes, amount of data way had swing kit available to us using team were able to be to be essentially a love the environments into the swing care and then bring them over to the other side of the business. And vain was essentially part on on top of that, making sure that the data that we were coming that will bring in a cross is true and not corrupt on DH, that using some of their technology is sure backups and stuff like that really, really was essential to, you know, do migration going well >> And was was Wien installed and both organizations at the time? Or was that something that you had to sort of redeploy? >> And yeah, So Legacy Charles also had way was actually myself going back probably eight years ago. Version For a time, I think team had 20,000 customers. So to here >> there were version 10 now 33 150 >> 1,001,000, 4,000 month. >> That makes me proud that we invested in vain when we did good car. So yeah, it was It was a good call from us, and essentially three other side of the business did not have. But then we just wait. Expanded our Venus State to look at both sides and then bring him across on. And then, ever since then, we've grown our vamos state across the world, across all of officers. So >> So how did you do that? So that was that was another migration that had to occur. And did you? You kind of do those simultaneously. Did you do the theme of migration first, and then bring the two systems together? >> Do you seem to do Stouffer special sauce in the migration? >> Yeah. So Veen was essentially a tool that we used to my great data sensors from one data center to another using their backup technology using their replication technology, we were able to replicate all of one side's virtual machines to the other. And then that gave us that gave us the flexibility as well. When when we had the limited down time periods that we've had, they give us the flexibility to actually Circe the business is during these particular ours. We're not gonna be able to You're not gonna have access to these systems because we're going to bring up systems from point A to point B. So veen was essential to them if >> you had to do it over again. If he had a mulligan, what would you have done differently? What what advice might you give to somebody who's trying to go through a similar migration? >> I would say Give your partners and lawyers more realistic time. Pray the time frame that we would get. >> Or don't let them give you an unrealistic time for him. >> Exactly. Yeah, so says ensured that the amount of work it's it's not just day to itself. You know, we're talking network and we're talking security. We're talking, you know, to to similar sized companies coming together. We were very, very limited time frame, consolidating all of their systems into one which is essential for the two parts of the business to collaborate together because, you know, way could have taken our time. We could have got to take this free four years a CE, far as we're concerned. But the fact that we did do it in such a quick time for him and that business to parts of the business from Day one can collaborate much better with each other. So >> we talked a lot about digital business transformation and you know, our approach or our observations on the digital business transformations, the process by which you altar and change your firm to re institutionalize the work. Change your game. Tomato Grover. All governments model as you use data as an asset, so that's affecting every firm everywhere. How's it affecting a law firm and you know your law from specifically on? How is that going to change your stance in your approach to data protection >> Data is incredibly important to unlawful. A zit is to most most organizations, but in terms of, you know, one of one of the things that's quite important in terms of law firms. We work with the financial institutions, so we held information by that. We hold personal data way hold all times of information. Charles Oscar speech leads works with Aware is of law apart from Kunal. So the areas of law that they worked with his vast in terms of the amount of data that we hold and essentially I mean, for us data is the most important thing that runs the firm and having visibility tow our data. How do we How do we work that data? How do we then market based on the data that we have? How do we market ourselves from that data. You know, there might be one area the business that's dealing with a family issue, family law. But then, you know that that could correspond with the litigation issue. You know, how do we work that data? To be to be an advancing to our businesses is extremely important. For >> what? What do you think of the announcements this week? I'm kind of curious. I was liketo ask the practitioners of what they think about. You know what was announced. You had, uh, well, you had the ve made $1,000,000,000. That's kind of fun and cool, but But you had the with the program, which was kind of interesting. The whole ap I look the beam availability orchestrator, where they're really talking about recovering from backups as a host that needed to recover from, you know, a replicated instance. You know, some of the automated testing stuff was kind of interesting. They talked about dynamic documentation, things you saw this week that you'll actually go back and say, Hey, I can apply that to solve a problem. Sure. >> So, essentially, I think I've been a really good question is very relevant to us many of not just ourselves law firm but many of the other law firms around the world are now looking at cloud based services now for us. I mean, this was a big thing five years ago way you know, everyone was talking about public clouds. Us. We're now we're now looking clouds and where basically, we've bean pushed by the vendors themselves to go towards cloudlike Citrix, for example. Their licensing model was based around their services. So is Microsoft in Mike's off? You don't you don't really have, you know, exchange anymore. Within premises you have off 365 A lot of the SAS applications are moving toward the cloud on DH. What wrote me? I had to say doing the keynote in regards to act, too. And how team are trying to be the visionaries in terms of look at that cloud is their next big thing for the next 10 years, offering often a crucial and for businesses like ours who have limited exposure to cloud technologies limited understanding, essentially having a tool that could migrate from one cloud to another. It's fantastic, you know, we've offered, you know I've spoken to, obviously are United directors around the other law firms where I wanted to have gone to the public cloud. But they don't know how to come back in and having a tall that essentially gives you that flexibility to bring it back in house to go form a ws to zoo. Or if there's a particular assess application, for example, that piers better with a W s. But you've got your other application that piers with that particular application is your Why would you want to have in the door? You'll probably want to move into a W eso for us, I think. What? The message coming out of'em on this year has bean really, really helpful for us. >> So So when you started with theme, they had it said 20,000 custom You like the 20001st customer on DIT was coincided with the virtual ization, you know, craze. Do you feel like the team knowing what you know about them, you have a lot of experience with them Consort of Replicate that success in this town intendant and in Act two, >> I think when I first looked at them, Wow, this is really, really simple. It's a bit like an iPhone. You know you given iPhone to your grandmother or to your children, and they have to play with it. And I see the beam as an intuitive piece of software that easy fighting professionals to get on with it, as their slogan said a few years ago. It just works. It does just work. Wear were great advocates of him. It's worked wonders for us. We've acquired smaller businesses using we've managed companies using and when I see you know, when you go to the sessions and you see the intelligence behind their thinking, I think going back to your question I think Wei si oui, si, vamos a strategic partner for us when we see their vision and we believe in their vision, and I think what they're doing in terms of what they working on next few years, I think we're well favor there, and I think, you know, essentially, that's where the most of their business is going to come from, >> where you sit down with, you know, rat mayor over over vodka and he says, Tell me the one thing I could do to make your life you know, easier, better you can't say cut prices s a hellhole. But what would you advise him to >> make my life better >> other than Jim instead of >> yeah, eyes that >> would make you crazy. >> So in terms of a zoo, a technology, >> your business relationship or something, she'd like to see them do that would. I >> think in terms of mergers and acquiring companies, seen license rentals will be a good thing. I know, I know. They give you a valuation license keys, and that's something that you can use. So, for example, if we were to acquire a company that has hundreds of servers and PM's having license rentals for a period of time, able >> to spin it up and spin it down actually allowed >> Exactly. Yeah, that would be an advantage. I think in terms of what you know what they're doing in the marketplace, and a lot of law firms use him. I feel I can't do any more than they are doing now. And in all the years that we've used to be my fingers on eight years now, but we've only had one serious problem, and the way they got that problem, you know the way, the way they communicated to reverse the way they a lot of different teams across the the Europe and the US go involved. I think, you know, in terms of service, in terms of software, in terms of what they what they do for us. I don't think there's anything more to add. Teoh. Right? Maia's vision. >> That's great for their custom of it. Well, thanks so much for coming on. The Cube is not heavy. Really? Thank you very much. You're welcome to keep it right there, buddy Peter, and I'll be back with our next guests right after this short break. We're live from Miami at the front of Blue Hotel. You're watching the Cube from Vienna on 2019 right back.

>> Announcer: Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami everybody. This is Dave Volante with Peter Burris and you're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, and we're here at VeeamON 2019 in Miami at the Fontainebleau Hotel. Raj Perumal is here. He's the CIO of Ducks Unlimited, Canada-based wetland and waterfowl conservation. Great to have you on theCUBE, thanks. >> Thank you. >> The keynote yesterday was awesome. You guys were talking about some of things that you're doing. We're going to get into that. You made a great statement. You said "the wetlands are the kidneys of the world." >> Raj: Yes. >> You know, explain that. >> (laughs) Sure, so, most people are very familiar with the Amazon rain forest, right? When you think about saving the planet and saving the environment, that's where everyone's mind or eyes go to, right? Well, wetlands are Mother Nature's way of essentially filtering water, stopping overland flooding, and so on. So, that's why we say they are the kidneys of the earth. >> Yeah, and so talk a little bit about the trends in the earth. It's been very challenging, right? I mean despite the great work that you're doing, you're still fighting this battle which sometimes might feel unwinnable. But give us the data, yeah. >> Absolutely, urban expansion, right? At the end of the day, you know as humans we're going across the planet. We're constantly building more cities, more parking lots, more everything, right? So wetlands are getting replaced with various things. Same thing with various resource mining, et cetera. Wetlands go away. So what Ducks Unlimited likes to do is adopt a no net loss policy. So what we do is we work closely with governments in various provinces across Canada. So if someone destroys an acre of wetlands, we can try and restore maybe four or ten acres for every one destroyed. It's better not to destroy it in the first place, but if it's going to happen, restore it somewhere else. >> Dave: So, some of the stats I saw. You've done 12,000 projects since you started this in the 1930's. 163.5 million acres that you have preserved. And as I say, still the wetlands loss is enormous. Is it not regulated to the point where public policy can help? >> Raj: Well, there's policy and there's law. And when it comes to Canada, there's policy but there's always exceptions. So what ends up happening is, you have these policies that say you can't do this, but then there's exception, exception, exception, exception. And usually corporations can get a way through some various exception and actually get through. Ducks Unlimited helped pass a law in Quebec not too long ago, so we actually have it in law in Quebec where it is actually being supported. >> So, the old adage that if you can't measure it, it doesn't get done. >> That's right. >> One of the most amazing things about some of these digital transformations is satellite imagery, other types of weather and related data, are making it possible to track typology in unbelievable minute detail. >> Absolutely. >> Peter: Now that's got to help you, but at the same time, it's got to really dramatically require a greater focal point on things like data protection. Especially since operational time series for wetlands is not measured in nanoseconds. It's measured in years. >> That's right. >> So you got to be able to use this technology to both enhance your mission right now, but also be able to show over time how things are changing. Have I got that right? >> That's absolutely correct. With climate change as an example, and yes, that's a real thing. With climate change, you're measuring, We want to keep data like over 30 years. And that's where we actually see true change. We're just talking about five, ten years. That's just weather, that's not climate change, right? So we need to keep that data. So yes, we have a whole GIS department, Geographical Information Systems, where we have satellite imagery, drone imagery of Canada, going years and years and years back. We have to keep all of that data and we can never get rid of it. >> So what does this mission have to do with Veeam? >> Sure, absolutely. So with all of that data, GIS data is very imagery intense. So think of it like x-rays or CAD. So it takes up a lot of space. So we have to back up that data. Every map has layers and layers and layers, so it's almost like a Google Maps for the environment. You can think of it that way. We run something called the Canadian Wetland Inventory. It's the largest inventory of wetlands, mapping of wetlands, in Canada. And we leave that as open data, so anyone can access the data and use it. So we use Veeam to back all of that up, and also to maintain our disaster recovery and so on for all our different operations. That's just one aspect of our operations, another big part, and you talked about the 12,000 projects we were doing. We started a division called conservation technology which is all about using technology to monitor the wetlands. So putting internet of things sensors out in the wetlands, gathering that data automatically through satellite and cellular networks, analyzing it with artificial intelligence and machine learning. Once we have that, we can get those insights, give them to our scientists or PhDs where the big minds can go and crunch that and go and look at it and go, okay, this is what's happening in the world. We need to back that data up too. And once again, going back to what I said before, we need to keep that data over long periods of time so we can actually see patterns and figure out what's going on with our planet. >> Do you do video on the ground as well? I mean, you're right Peter. With satellite imagery, you can get pretty minute detail. But then, like the ground truth, sometimes you got to go on the ground. . Are you capturing video on the ground? >> A little bit, not a lot. >> Dave: The changes in flora and fauna? Do you see that as useful in the future? Or is it just too much data or not as useful to sort of deploy those kind of cameras? >> I would love to be able to capture all of that data real-time. The problem with that is in Canada, our internet infrastructure is quite poor in the rural areas. In some places, you have better-than-dial-up speeds. That's it. So unfortunately, we can't bring that data back. So a lot of the times, we can't capture the video. But where we can, we do. >> Dave: Okay, but so you are putting sensors there and so talk more about that data. What are you doing with that data? Does that come back into a cloud? Yes, so we pull that into the cloud, Microsoft Azure, where we analyze it and do that AI and machine learning, and then spit it out from there. So we are in the hybrid cloud. So we have some stuff internally, some in the public cloud. A little mixture of everything. That's where Veeam comes into play. >> So I had a couple questions. One is on the data source side and one is on the data sync side, starting with the data sync. Certainly, climate scientists and others, folks who are looking at geopolitics and other types of things, are taking this kind of information and they're using it as a source for even more complex and advanced applications. Are you seeing communities evolve and emerge and evolve in response to the availability of your data? >> Absolutely, people are clamoring for more though. Everyone wants real-time data. A lot of our data is manually gathered at this point. We have people driving out to a specific project in the middle of nowhere, gathering the data manually, driving back and then uploading it because that's the only way we can do it. So, absolutely, we are seeing people wanting more use of it and making use of that data, but they want it live. They want it right now. We kind of live in an instant-on society, right? But once again, the challenges of rural areas kind of tie our hands. >> Well that was my second question. Do you see an opportunity to do crowdsourcing of video or other types of information? >> Absolutely. >> So is that becoming a way and are you using artificial intelligence? Start taking an extended number of data sources as people go out and take pictures of ducks, or whatever else it is, and then ingesting that into your system. Does that become part of the flow? >> Yeah, absolutely, so that kind of takes us back to the 1930's when Ducks first started. We had the key men of old that actually kind of stewarded their local areas for conservation. So, absolutely, we can use crowdsourcing in this day and age, and it's something we want to explore. We're not doing it yet, but we're getting there. >> How is your data pipeline? 1930's, you know the data, the data model in 1930's is a lot different than it is today. The keynote speaker today talked about the sort of bending of the innovation curve and how the next 20, 30, 40, 50 years we're going to see more change than we've ever seen before. We'll see. But the data model that you guys are doing, I mean at least in the last 10 years you've seen new technologies come out, new processes. How are you evolving that data model? >> It's more like data models. (laughs) For the various line of business because we do so many different things, right? But essentially what we're trying to do-- >> The big thing is keeping it all connected. Keeping it all in sync. Implementing things like master data management. We're a big partner with Dell Boomi for example. So we leverage them to move our data back and forth between all our systems, et cetera, while Veeam backs it up. So I would say it's hugely important to be continually pushing the envelope and how you move data and how you synchronize data, how you authenticate that data and how you verify that data. Especially in science, you want to make sure that it's not being tampered with. You got to make sure that the data is consistent and true. >> Raj, how long have you been in this role? >> At Ducks Unlimited? A little over two years, but in the industry, over 25. >> So Veeam at Ducks preceded you, is that right? >> No, I brought it in. >> Dave: So you brought it in? Talk about that. Why did you bring it in and what was going on before? Maybe tell us a before and after. >> Sure, absolutely. So I actually used to be on the reseller side of the business. I used to be a CIO for one of the larger IT consulting companies in Canada. And during my time there, I brought Veeam into the province of Manitoba and spent a lot of time with various different customers, putting Veeam into various different projects and company types. So lots of exposure to the product. So when I came into Ducks Unlimited Canada, I already came in knowing what was possible, and gave the existing backup product a shot because I didn't necessarily want to rip and replace everything on my team with the CIO coming in day one. >> Dave: New sheriff in town! Ugh, who's this guy? >> But when it wasn't doing exactly what I needed it to do, we decided to bring Veeam in and the rest is basically history. >> Talk more about that. What was the business impact of bringing-- >> Oh sure, absolutely, so before Veeam, we were spending over 40 hours a week just administering backups. >> Peter: 40 hours a week? >> Yeah, easily. And we have large data sets, and so as I was talking about in the keynote, with those large data sets, if you're doing a backup or a restore, especially a restore, if it fails, you can blow a day trying to get that data back. And so you've lost a day. So that's how you easily end up losing that much time. Especially with an organization where you have 27 locations across Canada, and 500 staff, and 4,500 volunteers all accessing this data in some way, shape, or form. So by moving to Veeam, all those tasks that we used to do before, just worked. Veeam always says "it just works." It's true. And so what ended up happening is stuff that was taking the team a week, all of a sudden was taking them minutes. Like literally minutes. And it's unbelievable. That FT, that full-time equivalent staff member all of a sudden becomes freed up to do the work I was talking about in conservation technology and other areas of our business. We're directly impacting science on the planet, so a lot more fun that just supporting regular IT. >> So you have that 40 hours, was arms and legs of the team? And how large was the team? >> 16. >> So six, zero? >> Raj: 16. >> 16! Okay, so it was 16, pieces of 16. Which a lot of times, people hear that and they're like oh, it's going to reduce jobs. I don't want to talk about that. But these guys must have hated that. That job, the 40 hours-- >> Absolutely, they're doing mund-numbing work, right? >> Dave: It's interruptive and-- >> Yeah, and so now they're doing a lot funner stuff, right? >> What funner stuff are they doing? >> Absolutely, so once again being involved directly with conservation technology and our IOT play and all of that AI and machine learning research. All the sexy stuff in IT that's happening now, right? So they're very happy. >> You guys got a pretty interesting IOT use case. So how, I'm curious as to, you know we've been watching various companies come in and announce their grand IOT strategies and say "Okay we're going to bring this box to the edge." What are your thoughts on IOT, the edge, all those sort of buzz words. How do you look at it from a practitioner and a customer standpoint? >> It's very much like building a mobile app. So, you know everyone says we need an app for their company, right? They don't know why they need an app. They just say they need an app. And then they go and build that app and then nothing happens with it, right? And then it all fails. IOT is much the same way. Internet of things, AI, machine learning, it's all the buzz words. But then you need to understand what you want to get out of it in the first place. Like where are you trying to go? What are you trying to do? What are you trying to accomplish? And then if IOT fits that, AI, machine learning, if that fits that, then great. And if it doesn't, then don't waste your time. That's my thought. >> So, specifically, what's your IOT strategy? What can you accomplish with edge? >> Absolutely, if we can get instant live data streaming into the cloud and actively analyzing it on the fly using cloud services like Azure, AI, machine learning IOT et cetera, or even Amazon services, a lot of different services out there. If we can do that on the fly and feed that into the Canadian Wetland Inventory that I was talking about before, using open data initiatives, we can now feed data to the planet about what's happening real-time to academia, to governments, et cetera, so they can make decisions with evidentiary-based statistics, right? Right now it's very hard for, this is why the fight over climate change, people go "There is such a thing." Other people go, "No there isn't", and this happens because there's not enough data available to the general public, right? So by having this open data and making it available to the general public, not just the scientific communities, I think that would go a long way to helping get support for these causes. >> That's awesome, changing the world. What are the skill sets you need to achieve that vision? Is it data science-heavy? Can you sort of outsource some of that? Is the tooling simplified enough now? Talk about that. >> It's a little bit of networking, little bit of data science, a lot of GIS, and a lot of old fashioned networking and talking to people, right? So that's really what makes up the team and allows us to do what we do. >> Are you hiring data scientists? >> Not at the moment, no. We have everyone we need. >> But you have data scientists on staff. >> Yes, exactly. Because even before the IOT thing, we have scientists on staff that do just that, right? It's just in the traditional sense, before that. >> So did you sort of create that role? Take somebody who's good in math and computers and stats and say "Hey, you're the data scientist now. Go do some training and make it happen." Or did you actually hire in a data scientist? >> We actually created that role, so we have numerous people that feed different aspects of that, but the main man that's actually running that for me is our right hand man and your manager of IT. He started as a biologist that became a GIS guy that became my manager of IT. So he has a little bit of experience in all these different areas and he's like the perfect person to run the conservation technology division for us. >> Cool. >> And he's here today. >> Oh really? So what do you think of VeeamOn? Have you been to previous Veeam shows? >> Yeah, most of them actually. >> Dave: Really? >> It's great, yeah. >> Oh, that's awesome, seeing the CIO crowd hang out with all us backup wonks. So, thoughts from the show, takeaways? >> Sure, absolutely. Well, first of all, if anyone isn't using Veeam, they should be using it already. I got to say that right now. So many people waste their time picking and choosing and hemming and hawing. Just use it, it just works. So please do that. You won't regret it whatsoever. Veeam has done some really great things. I love the announcements with Orchestrator in version 2 there, and some of the good things that are coming with the restore plans and the scopes, et cetera. And that's fantastic. So I think there's a lot of great things that Veeam is bringing to data management and data availability. >> Yeah, so they made a big deal out of being able to do restores from the backup corpus. Not having to go to a replicated chunk of data. Why is that important for you, and will you take advantage of that? >> It's just the speed. It's just the speed, so I don't have to bring it back from another place, right? It's just instant. >> Yeah, okay, so then you're going to use that other place for disaster recovery or just a second copy for just in case? >> Yup! >> But you've got basically a local copy that you can bring back instantaneously. Okay, great. And I presume that supports your sort of compressed RTO and RPO. Which, as long as I've been in this business, they've shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. >> Yup, that's right. >> Shrunk the RPO. Great, okay, I'll give you final words. Cool stuff you're working on, things you'd like to see our industry do better, you pick it. >> Sure, cool stuff we're working on. So, talking about what we're doing at Ducks Unlimited with IT and really kind of changing the shape of IT and how it's involved in science, and I talked about Wetland Inventory, that live data, et cetera. If we can build a model like that here, imagine what we can do across the world, right? I'd love to take that model and take it to other countries where they can do the same type of work, so altruistically, and share that data, that whole open data initiative, so other people can go and save wetlands. If we can get everyone working together that way, I think we'll all be better off. >> That's awesome, Raj, thank you so much for coming to theCUBE, sharing your insights and experiences. Appreciate it. All right, keep it right there buddy. We'll be back with our next guest. This is theCUBE live from VeeamON 2019 from Miami. We'll be right back.

>> live from Miami Beach, Florida It's the que covering demon 2019. Brought to you, by the way, >> Welcome back to Vima on 2019 in Miami. Everybody, we're here at the Fountain Blue Hotel. This is Day two of our coverage of the Cube, the leader in live Tech. And I'm David Dante with Peter Bors. Pippen. Jay Raj is here. He's the vice president and CEO of Make A Wish America. Just that awesome foundation nonprofit people. Thanks for coming on the Cube. >> Thank you for having me appreciate it. >> So make a wish. Children with wishes and have terminal illnesses. You guys make them come true. It's just a great organizations. Been around for a long time, I think, since the early eighties, right, >> 39 years and going >> years and hundreds of thousands of wishes made. So just how did you get Teo make a wish that all come about >> it? It wasn't interesting journey. I was consulting in I t for multiple big companies. And, you know, two years back, it was through a recruiting channel that I got an opportunity to start some conversations as the CIA and make a wish. Uh, the thing that got me in the opportunity was predominately about enterprises and just to give you a little bit off, make official operations. Make a Wish was Founded and Phoenix, Arizona. And but we also operate a 60 chapters across the United States that it is 60 chapters each of the chapter there 501 C three companies themselves with the CEO and abort. Essentially, it is 60 plus one. The national team kind of managing. All of the chapters are helping the chapters. National does not do any wish. Granting all the wish planning happens to the chapters. But National helps the chapters with the distribution of funding models brand. And thanks for That's a couple of years back in the national board talked about in our dream and mission, which is granting every eligible child the notion ofthe enterprise. You know, working as an enterprise came into four and it being a great piece off providing shared services and thanks for that. So I was brought on board and we took on I would call as the leader today said and dashes dream off. Bringing together all the 60 chapters and the city chapter's essentially are split across 120 locations. So Wade took on a project off. You know, combining our integrating all of their infrastructure needs into one place. And Phoenix without ada, sent a provider. You know, we worked with a partner. Phoenix. Now fantastic partners >> there. We had them on the other day. >> Yep, yep. Yeah, MacLaren. I mean, and the team, they did a great job. And, you know, when we had to move all of the data, everything from the 60 chapters applications everything into a centralized data center, locations that we managed right now from Make a Wish National office and provide a service back to the chapters That gives you a little bit off. You know, from behind the scenes. What happened? >> You provide the technical overview framework for all the 60 chapters. >> It almost sounds like a franchise model. >> It's what we call a Federated model back in the nonprofit. >> But but but but because make a wish is so driven by information. Yep. Both in the application as well as the programs to deliver thie brand promise. And the brand execution has got to be very, very closely tied to the quality of a shared services you provide >> exactly. Exactly. And like I said, the reason I talked about them being a separate companies themselves is you know, as I always say to my 60 CEOs, Ah, I should be able to provide the services because they wanted, because they have a choice to go outside and have their own partner. Another thing for that which they can. But they would want to work with the national team and get my, you know, work through our services rather than having have to because of the very it's A. It's a big difference when it comes to, but I've been lucky on privileged to you have these conversations with the CEO's. When I start talking to them about the need for centralization, the enterprise society assed much, there are questions when he start leading with the mission and the business notion of why we need to do that, it's It's fantastic. Everybody is in line with that. I mean, there's no question, then, as toe Hey, guys, uh, let me do all the Operation Manisha fight and leave it to me and I'll in a handler for you, and I let you guys go to what you do best. which is granting wishes. So then it becomes it doesn't become a question off, you know, should be a shouldn't way. And of course, to back that up. But I was talking to the dean, folks, It just solutions. Like VMware, Veeam. It makes it much simpler even from a cost prospect. You not for me to manage a bigger team s so that I can take those dollars and give it back to the business to grant another wish. So it's it's pretty exciting that >> way. So you set the standards. Okay, here's what you know, we recommend and then you're you're saying that adoption has been quite strong. Yeah, I remember Peter. Don't say easy. I used to run Kitty Sports in my local town in which is small town. And there was, you know, a lot of five or six or seven sports, and I was the sort of central organization I couldn't get six sports to agree that high man is 60 different CEO's. But that's okay. So not easy. But so how were you able to talk leadership or leading as we heard from Gino Speaker today? How were you able to get those guys, you know, aligned with your vision. >> Uh, it's it's been fantastic. I've had a lot ofthe good support from our executive came from a leadership team because leadership is always very important to these big initiatives are National board, which comprises off some of the that stuff best leaders in America and I have the fortune toe be mentored by Randy Sloan, who used to be the CEO of Southwest. And before that, you see a global CEO for, uh, you know, Popsicle. You know, he always told me, but but I mean CIA job. One thing is to no the technology, but completely another thing. Toe building relationships and lead with the business conversation. And so a typical conversation with the CEO about Hey, I need to take the data that you have all the I t things that you have and then me doing it. And then there are questions about what about my staff and the's conversations. Because you know, it's a nonprofit is a very noble, nice feeling, and you wouldn't want the conversations about, you know, being rift and things like that are being reduced producing the staff and thinks of that. But you know as he walked through that and show the benefits of why we doing it. They get it. And they've been able to repurpose many off the I. D functions back in tow, revenue generation model or ofhis granting in our team. And in many cases, I've been ableto absolve some off their folks from different places, which has worked out fine for me, too, because now I have kind of a power user model across the United States through which I can manage all these 120 locations. It's very interesting, >> you know, site Reliable and Engineering Dev Ops talks about thie error budget or which is this notion of doo. You're going tohave errors. You're going to have challenges. Do you want it in the infrastructure you wanted the functions actually generating value for the business? I don't know much about Make a wish. I presume, however, that the mission of helping really sick kids achieve make achieve a wish is both very rewarding, very stressful. He's gotta be in a very emotional undertaking, and I imagine it part of your message them has got to be let's have the stress or that emotional budget be dedicated to the kids and not to the technology >> completely agree. That's that. That's been one of my subjects, as you asked about How is it going about? It's about having the conversation within the context of what we talked about business and true business. Availability of data. You know, before this enterprise project data was probably not secure enough, which is a big undertaking that we're going down the path with cyber security. And you know, that is a big notion, misplaced notion out there that in a non profits are less vulnerable. Nobody. But that's completely untrue, because people have found out that nonprofits do not probably have the securing of walls and were much more weight being targeted nonprofits as a whole, targeted for cyber security crimes and so on and so forth. So some of these that I used to, you know, quote unquote help or help the business leaders understand it, And once they understand they get it, they ableto, you know, appreciate why we doing it and it becomes the conversation gets much more easier. Other What's >> the scope of the size of the chapters is that is a highly variable or there is. >> It is highly variable, and I should probably said, That's Thesixty chapters. We look at it as four categories, so the cat ones are what we call the Big Ice, the Metro New Yorkers and Francisco Bay Area. They're called Category one chapters anywhere between 4 1 60 to 70 staff. Grant's close to around 700 wishes you so as Make a Wish America, we ran close toe 15,600 wishes a year, and cat ones do kind of close to 700 15,600 400 to 700. And then you get into care to scare threes and cat for scat force are anywhere between, you know, given example Puerto Rico or Guam territory there. Cat Force New Mexico is a cat for three staff members Gammas operated by two staff members and 20 volunteers. They grant about 3 2 20 12 to 15 which is a year, so it's kind of highly variable. And then, you know, we talk about Hawaii chapter. It's a great example. They cat once predominate because of the fact that you know, they they do. There's not a lot ofthe wishes getting originated from how I but you know, Florida, California and how your three big chapters with a grand are a vicious ist with a lot of grant, you know, wish granting. So there's a lot off, you know, traffic through those chapters >> so so very distributed on diverse. What's the relationship between data and the granting of wishes? Talk about the role of data. >> Should I? I was say this that in a and I probably race a lot of fibrosis and my first introductory session a couple of years back when I John make a wish with the CEO's uh, when we had the CEO meeting and talk to them about I leaders the days off making decisions based on guts are gone. It has to be a data driven decision because that's where the world is leading to be. Take anything for that matter. So when we talk about that, it was very imperative going back to my project that the hall we had all of the data in one place or a semblance off one single place, as opposed to 60 different places to make decisions based on wish forecast, for example, how many wishes are we going to do? How many wishes are coming in? How's the demand? Was the supply matching up one of the things that we need to do. Budget purposes, going after revenue. And thanks for that. So data becomes very important for us. The other thing, we use data for the wish journeys. Essentially, that's a storytelling. You know, when I you know, it was my first foray into for profit Sorry, nonprofit. And me coming from a full profit is definitely a big culture shock. And one of the things they ask us, what are we selling? Its emotions and story. And that's our data. That is what you know. That's huge for us if we use it for branding and marketing purposes. So having a good semblance off data being ableto access it quickly and being available all the time is huge for us. >> Yeah, and you've got videos on the site, and that's another form of data. Obviously, as we as we know here, okay. And then, from a data protection standpoint, how do you approach that? Presume you're trying to standardize on V maybe is way >> are actually invested in veeam with them for a couple of years right now, as we did the consolidation of infrastructure pieces Veeam supporters with all of the backup and stories replication models. Uh, we're thinking, like Ratmir talked about act one wi be a part of the journey right now, and we're looking at active. What that brings to us. One of the things that you know, dream does for us is we have close to 60 terabytes of data in production and close to another 400 terabytes in the back of things. And, uh, it's interesting when they look about look at me equation, you think about disaster recovery back up. Why do you need it? What? The business use cases case in point. This classic case where we recently celebrated the 10th anniversary ofthe back wish bad kid in San Francisco, we have to go back and get all the archives you know, in a quick fashion, because they're always often requests from the media folks to access some of those. They don't necessarily come in a planned manner. We do a lot of things, a lot of planning around it, but still there are, you know, how How did that come about? What's the story behind? So you know, there are times we have to quickly go back. That's one second thing is having having to replicate our data immediately. Another classic case was in Puerto Rico. There was a natural disaster happened completely. Shut off. All the officers work down. We had to replicate everything what they had into a completely different place so that they could in a vpn, into an access that other chapters and our pulled in to help. They were close to 10 wish families close to 10 which families were stranded because of that. So, you know, gaining that data knowledge of where the family is because the minute of his journey starts. Everything is on us till the witch's journey ends. So we need to make sure everything is proper. Everything goes so data becomes very crucial from those pants >> you're tracking us. I mean, if you haven't been on the make a Wish site is some amazing stories. There I went on the other day. There's a story of ah, of 13 year old girl who's got a heart condition. Who wanted to be a ballerina. A kid with leukemia five years old wants to be a You want to be a chef. My two favorites, I'll share What? It was this kid Brandon a 15 year old with cystic fibrosis. I wanted to be a Navy seal. You guys made that happen. And then there was this child. Colby was 12 years old and a spinal muscular issue. You want to be a secret agent so very creative, you know, wishes that you ran >> way had another wish a couple of years last year in Georgia, where they wish kid wanted to go to Saturn. Yes, yes, it was huge. I mean, and you know the best part about us once we start creating those ideas, it's amazing how much public support we get. The community comes together to make them wish granting process. Great. Now. So I got involved in that. They gave the wish Kato training sessions to make sure that he is equipped when he goes into. And we had a bushel reality company create the entire scene. It was fabulous. So, you know, the way you talk about data and the technology is now some of the things I'm very excited about us usage off thes next Gen technology is like our winter reality to grant a wish. I mean, how cool would that be for granting a wish kid who is not able to get out of the bed. But having able to experience a the Hawaii is swimming. Are being in Disney World enough a couple of days? That's That's another use case that we talked about. That other one is to put the donors who pay the money in that moment off granting, you know, they are big major gift, uh, donors for make a wish. Sometimes we were not able to be part of a fish, but that would be pretty cool if you can bring the technology back to them and you know not going for them. You know pretty much everybody and make the ass through that rather than a PowerPoint or a storytelling, when the storytelling has to evolve to incorporate all of that so pretty excited >> and potentially make a participatory like, say, the virtual reality and then even getting in more into the senses and the that the smells. And I mean this is the world that we're entering the machine intelligence, >> which you still have to have, But you still have to be a functioning, competent, operationally sound organization. There've been a number of charities, make a wish is often at the top of the list of good charities. But there were a number of charities where the amount of money that's dedicated to the mission is a lot less an amount of money, dedicated administration of fundraising, and they always blame it. Systems were not being able to track things. So no, it's become part of the mission to stay on top of how information's flowing because it's not your normal business model. But the services you provide is really useful. Important. >> Sure, let me percent you the business conundrum that I have personally as a 90 leader. It takes close to $10,400 on an average to grant a wish. Uh, and, uh, partly because of me. But being part of the mission, plus me as a 90 leader wanting to understand the business more, I signed up. I'm a volunteer at the local Arizona chapter. I've done couple of expanding myself, and, uh, the condom is, if asked, if you want to go, uh, you know, do the latest and greatest network upgrade for $10,400 are what do you want to, uh, you know and make the network more resilient cyber security and all that stuff. What do you want to go grant? Another wish as a 90 leader probably picked the former. But as a volunteer, I would be like, No, it needs to go to the kid. It's Ah, it's It's an interesting kind of number, you know? You have to find the right balance. I mean, you cannot be left behind in that journey because at many points of time s I talked about it being a cost center. It being a back office. I think those days have clearly gone. I mean, we we evolved to the point where it is making you steps to be a participant b A b a enabler for the top line to bring in more revenues, tow no augment solutions for revenue and things. For that sofa >> rattles the experience or exact role citizens. And in your case, it's the experience is what's being delivered to the degree that you can improve the experience administratively field by making operations cheaper. Great. But as you said, new digital technologies, they're going to make it possible to do things with the experience that we could even conceive of. Five >> wears a classic example. Williams and Beam. I couldn't have taken the data from 60 chapters 120 locations into one single location manageable, and it reduced the cost literally reduce the cost of the 60 instances in one place without technology is like, you know what Sharia virtual machines. And and then to have a backup robust backup solution in a replication off it. It's fantastic. It's amazing >> there. And that's against here. You could give back to the dash chapters and backing, But thanks so much for sharing your story. You Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Alright, keep it right there. Buddy. Peter and I were back with our next guest. You watching the Cube live from V mon from Miami? 2019. We're right back. Thank you.

live from Miami Beach Florida it's the queue covering beam on 2019 brought to you by V hello everyone welcome back to Miami this is the cubed a leader and live tech covers is day two of our coverage of v-mon 2019 at the Fontainebleau Hotel in sunny Miami Dave Volante with Peter Burroughs Trevor stars is here is the director of systems engineering for pure storage Trevor great to see you again yeah thanks for having me yeah well we've been following pure since the did the early days I remember interviewing Scott Dietzen it's a snw way back when and seeing the ascendency and the rise fewer hits escape velocity he goes public just been an awesome ride you guys have really kind of transformed the industry started out as you know the flash play but now really getting much deeper into sort of data and data strategies and data protection is one of those so we're here at v-mon what are your impressions so far this week the conference has been great a lot of great interactions theme has been an incredibly strong alliance partner for us the synergies are just incredible because you know as we've evolved as you mentioned from a singular product in all flash array and disrupting the market there back in the early 2010's evolving into more of a data platform company and data protections actually turned out to be a great business for us it's growing incredibly fast and you know like I said a lot of great synergies with beam so the systems engineering role has always been a critical part of the the sales process right this right the SC's is like I need an se you know and then you guys will go in help the sales team really understand what the customer needs you'll help solve problems but how was that roll it to find a pure and how was it evolving in the industry yeah absolutely and I think similar to our products in the early days we we hired a lot of folks who were storage specialists and and we've evolved into having to go far beyond that right into the different realms around things like AI machine learning data protection you know virtualization containers and so it it's definitely evolving it's challenge to us as a company and we're certainly trying to not maintain a status quo we want to continue to disrupt and do that in adjacent markets so how do you work with veem just in terms of taking your platform and their software and making a solution that's kind of simple for customers it's not you know stove-piped you know single throat to choke describe that whole process yeah yeah so we recently earlier this year maybe it was late last year we we developed some integration with beam to where we we actually integrate with their universal storage API so beam can control pure storage snapshots which you're which are probably familiar with pure snapshots on flash are incredibly powerful it's a it's a very powerful metadata engine in purity and which means we can take thousands of snapshots with no performance impact in their near instantaneous with veeam we can instantly integrate that into Veen backup and data protection workflows and vm can completely control pure storage snapshots both honoré and offer a which we'll talk about without having to have a storage administrator log into pure at all okay and so talk more about how the system plays with your customers I mean when you're when you're in with the customer and you're sort of scoping it out how is that conversation changing is just in terms of as you say you went from okay here's an array and flash now there's all the spectrum of other things that you're doing that's what's the data protection conversation like how does it relate to their digital transformation their digital business where do you guys fit there well operationally we've seen a huge trend from customers that a decade or so ago you saw the trend of going from disk to disk to tape tape for long term archive what we're actually here at the conference really promoting is this idea of the next big wave of evolution there which is we see customers going from flash to flash for the first step in backup and then instead of off-site tape going to the cloud so that's been an incredibly successful message for us early on and so that actually started with you know I mentioned the pure flash or a snapshot integration but actually moving those snapshots off of flash array to our second product which is flash blade flash blades a really unique product it was originally designed with the next big wave of innovation in mind around things like containers and deep learning where high amounts of bandwidth and parallelism are just absolutely critical billions of small files it just so happens that actually caters really well to backup performant and restore performance so backing up to disk was a big success for a lot of customers but what they're seeing now and what we're seeing as workloads continue to get more diverse is that there's a restore challenge so we have customers that are backing up to disk but they're seeing massive challenges around getting their data back and getting back online the recovery time objective pressures from the business are becoming more and more important this actually started for us in the SAS industry where one of the world's largest SAS providers out in Silicon Valley had to do an increasing amount of restore and they've they actually started using flash blade as what we call a rapid restore platform so they're able to nearly instantaneously restore these databases and what we found is nearly across the board and in all other industries that there's a large number of customers that have that challenge more so then we find you know going to market with flash played for like AI for example there's not as many people doing that quite yet we've been successful in the ones that are but across the board healthcare legal high-tech you name it it there's a restore problem and with flash played we've seen people go you know for example one of our really other customers outside of the SAS world is in the healthcare space the industry's number one cancer center in the in the world is actually leveraging it for rapid restore for databases but they're also doing some other neat things because flash blades not a purpose-built backup appliance it can be used for other things anything file an object works great so what you can do is you can combine the use cases and that's been really powerful from a TCO perspective you might say customers might say well you know flash is too expensive but if there's a restore problem that may not matter and then if you combine it with other use cases we call that our data hub story it's even more powerful in the TCO becomes you know really attractive so the healthcare using it for PACs and rapid restore you know there's other industries like you know my gaming industry like I mentioned high tech so that data hub message has been really powerful that's return on asset and asset leverage oh absolutely and and and one of the things I'd like to talk about Trevor is relating to that is there are a lot of ways of describing some of those fundamentals some of those really contingent and essential changes that are taking place in the industry today but one of them clearly is flash allows us to move from a data storage orientation of record and you know save the data to one of deliver the data to new applications pure has been at the vanguard of that and has seen a lot of these new use cases as we think about no return on data assets and whatnot how is your visibility into those new use cases changing Pure's perspective and pure customers perspective on data protection because it seems like the notion of data protection which has been around for a long time is starting to fray as these new use cases say it's not just protecting about what's happened it's setting me up for doing new types of work in the future so how is that how is pure seeing that how does that conversation about data protection changing because of some of the drive that purus got in them in the marketplace yeah and I think the first step is hey I can backup my data but if I can't use it it's kind of worthless right so being able to use that data and much much more rapidly but also repurposing that this idea of data silos has been around IT for years and with flash blade and that data hub story we're really breaking down those silos to be able to say hey the same the same platform that you're storing your data protection data as well as other data it's the same platform that I might be able to spin that data up so beams got a great story with data labs where you can actually spin up these virtual environments and run and on a purposeful backup device you know you it's it's questionable if that actually works right and having to pull that back over the network to another silo with Flash blade and the data hub it makes that realistic and and getting so much more out of the data delivering that back to the business and actually be able to deliver these key insights into what my data is actually doing and be able to make better business decisions as what the output you see kind of an analogy of a relationship between previous to now where storage was about persisting data and therefore was about protecting what has happened to flash being about delivering data to new applications and therefore there's some new concept our customers pushing you guys towards something that goes that's bigger than data protection I mean it's something that we're struggling with and one of the customers we have is struggling with how do I talk about what these services are when I'm spitting up kubernetes clusters like that that's right so is it is there some new conversation that you're starting to see you guys are one of the first to have a conversation about data you know flash data for AI are you starting to have conversations about you know deliver data something more than protection yeah near real-time ability to spin up development environments see ICD pipelines all of those things we actually have a product that as a pure customer you get as inclusive of maintenance contract called pure source service Orchestrator which can actually help provision end-to-end container environments and being able to repurpose that data for like I said test dev development pipelines and those kind of things and we're also as you've probably heard we're tying that into a cloud strategy as well so there's there's products we've announced cloud block storage side as well as object engine which is a product we haven't talked about yet which enables customers to truly see the benefit of a hybrid cloud scenario so they may be developing an application on Prem and pushing the cloud or vice versa and we're actually going to give them that back capability to do that talk more about object engines specifically what it is that means been inferring object yes store and object engine you know you hear the name it could mean a number of things but clearly it has to do with object storage so object engine was actually a technology that was born in the cloud so it was a cloud native application that was really designed around data reduction for cloud workloads what we've done as part of that product it folded into peers we've actually ironically it is not what we used it for first we'd developed an appliance and we call that our object engine appliance that's just phase one so what object engine delivers is a highly scalable highly performant data reduction platform we're starting with backup and data protection workloads so vemma obviously does their in-line data reduction technology if the customer finds that they need something more scalable they can actually leverage object engine to do that and then flash blade on the back end as the initial tier and then the future vision for object engine is that it's going to give you the cloud connectivity to be able to say okay I want to automatically push my backup workloads from an archive perspective out to the cloud we're starting in AWS we're gonna do Azure and others as well so the next big wave of that that you'll see is actually running object engine in the cloud in a hybrid scenario and be able to move those work clothes back and forth so kind of envision you know the the near-term backup and restore most of the resource happen within a week or two on Prem and then 100% also stored in the cloud for more long-term archives so that really it really completes the flash to flash the cloud story but we're not gonna stop with backup workloads either and where's your sort of value added in that equation and where's VM and how do you sort of what's the connection points there good question good question so I you know I think again I mentioned via obviously has their in line data reduction technology where we insert object engine is really one of two reasons one if if our data reduction offsets the cost of the whole solution without using it with just using beams data reduction because it is it's a hardware offload essentially and then the second one is if you need a you know a large amount of data that you want to push out to the cloud as our kind of phase two of that product right okay I want to ask you about the partnership from the terms from the standpoint of values sure the values of pure are you guys are fun company I love orange you go to pure accelerate everybody's wearing orange to come here everybody's wearing green so these seem to be kind of birds of a feather but but we just talked about value add what about the values of your company and sort of how you guys getting along yeah we're getting along great I like I said there's a lot of synergies from a solution standpoint but just from a go-to market standpoint trying to be you know a disruptive company it just technology disruptive solutions what is that next thing right not being a me-too player in the market and so I think we share a lot of those those same values but also customer success we really focus on the outcomes and a happiness of the customer and that that's down in the core of our engineering same thing with beam where I think we can really help each other is Veeam has a big push right now to move up market into the enterprise and we feel like we can help beam in that respect we've been very successful in enterprise and likewise veem obviously has a major presence in amia and that's a market that is is is growing for us substantially but we've got a lot of upside so we really think we can help each other there and I actually failed to mention the very first object engine flash Blade sale we did was with him so you know it was it was it was just natural in that perspective and I think pre object engine and before this whole idea of rapid restore really took off with flash blade it was it was just the flashier a protection and even that's still pretty new but now it's much more comprehensive so we've got common common competitors as well and pure accelerates coming up in September it's in Austin you're your hometown I'm town in Austin Texas so yeah we'll be there September 15th to 18th and we're going to be talking about a ton of stuff obviously flash to flash the cloud but well beyond storage as well so even if you know don't think of it as just a storage conference it's always fun event we've covered now I think twice this will be our third year so in Austin is a great great town and looking forward to that Trevor thanks so much for coming on the cube love that loved it thanks for having me feel very welcome all right keep it right to everybody we'll be back with our next guest right after this short break I'm Dave Volante with Peterborough's v-mon 28 2019 from Miami right back

>> Narrator: Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering veeAMON 2019. Brought to you by veeAM. >> Welcome back to veeAMON 2019, in Miami. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with Justin Warren as my co-host. Simon Robinson here is the Senior Vice President, 451 Research, Simon it's great to see you, thanks for coming to the cube. >> Thanks for having me. >> So is this your, is this right, your first veeAMON. >> It is, it is, first veeAMON, the first time in Miami, first time on theCUBE. So kind of bucket list check. >> Hey, got to give you a sticker here then, so here you go, thank you for coming on. And of course you've got the veeAM party tonight, which you may have been to some other veeAM parties at other shows, but-- >> Simon: I know them by reputation. >> Yeah, they're good. So looking forward to that. Two days, what have you learned here in the last couple of days, what are your impressions? >> Yeah, my impressions are that this is a conference that reflects the type of company that I think veeAM is, and veeAM's a little atypical for a technology company in this space, they didn't go down the traditional route, they had a very kind of different model right from the get-go, but what I see is real grass roots innovation, and veeAM has always been short on rhetoric, short on hype, and long on actually delivering the products and the capabilities that customers want, and it's been great to see examples of how that's playing out at the show, and we heard Ratmir talking about innovation, and 451 Research, we're an analyst firm focused on understanding the impacts of innovation, we provide data and insight around the technology innovation lifecycle, and it's always been, we've covered veeAM from pretty much day one, and it's always been clear to us that veeAM is a pretty special company, not just you have to be in the right place at the right time with the right product, but you also have to do it in a way that, they're kind of table stakes, you've got to do it in a way that actually engages and empathizes with what a customer is looking to achieve, and I think they've got that at the grassroots level, the veeAM admin level, a decade or more ago, and really have doubled down on that, so it's been awesome to see some of the examples of that at the conference this last couple of days, to have a general session with the eight demos. (laughing) >> And they all worked. >> They all worked. >> All of the eight!. >> I was terrified when they wheeled out the tub of water and it was like, they were dropping a laptop in there. Hey, you know, it was awesome and I think Ratmir is talking around, this being Act Two of veeAM's journey and veeAM's story. But firstly, lets kind of pay tribute to what they did in Act One. I think for any company to build a billion dollar revenue business software is a phenomenal achievement. But to do it in the data protection space? It's even more so. >> It's on backup, possibly the most boring thing ever, and they've kind of made it exciting. >> They used to say that backup was, well they used to say two things about backup. Firstly it's an insurance policy. And secondly, it was the one part of the IT environment that even storage people found boring. (laughing) But I mean, just see the kind of energy, enthusiasm, passion, of the folks here. That really isn't the case. >> That's true. It's been one of those boring but important factors. And then, veeAM's ascendancy, I've said this many times, has coincided with the birth of virtualization. We were consolidating physical servers because they were under-utilized, but then the backup had to be completely rethought because you didn't have enough band-width in the servers, and the capacity to run a backup job, and here comes veeAM, and it's just perfect fit, boom. Takes off. Now you've got Act Two, which is cloud. And I feel like it's jump balled, to use a U.S. basketball analogy, for you-- >> Simon: No idea what that means. >> --folks who don't follow basketball. (laughing) But it's "start over," right? And so, everybody's going after cloud, multi-cloud hybrid. And so, do you feel as though veeAM can replicate a success in what Ratmir's calling "Act Two" and draft from "Act One"? And one of the key factors, what's the tail wind for them, and what are some of the head winds. Certainly competition, we're going to' talk about that, but what are some of the other things that you guys see in your research? >> Yeah, so I think, I mean, first off, I think the hybrid cloud is a reality. Our research tells us that 60% of organizations are looking to, or characterize their strategy as being hybrid cloud strategy. But they're really struggling with actually enacting that and doing that in a processed, organized, deliberate way. We got a lot going on in the multi-cloud world, but multi-cloud is often an accident rather than something deliberate. It just turns out that they've got all these assets across all these different-- >> Dave: Multi-vendor, "Oh, I've got all these clouds!" >> That's right, that's right. Again, go back a decade, and how relatively straight forward the data and application environment seemed, right? I mean you had your application, it was probably on-prem, it really on a server that was connected to this bit of tin, and-- >> Little did we know at the time, right? >> Yeah, and fast forward to today, and data is just everywhere. So I think the tailwind for a company like veeAM is that, obviously, there's always going to be a need for backup, but I think that the conversation is evolving from one around data backup into one of data management, because you can only manage the data in your environment if you understand where it is, what its value is, what the potential exposures are, and I think that's why we see a big opportunity in managing data across this much more diverse and broader environment. >> So given that, do you think customers are better able to manage their data environment now than they used to be, or is it actually getting worse because now it's a much more dynamic and disparate environment. People weren't that great at it beforehand, have they gotten better, or not? >> It's hard to generalize. I think, in the main, customers acknowledge that they do a pretty bad job of managing it on a holistic basis. And I think we are seeing many organizations do it on a piece by piece basis. I think things like GDPR have been a wake-up call that, "Hey, your data is your responsibility!" And whether that data is on your facilities or it's in somebody else's, that doesn't matter. It's still your responsibility. So that was kind of a little bit of a wake-up call for organizations, certainly in Europe, and I think we're going to' see that replicated across the region also. >> We had the rise of Ransomware as well, which was actually the best advertisement for backup that you could ever have had. >> No doubt. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely. >> These, we talk about the shared responsibility model, I mean, to your point, Simon, I mean, it's like security, right? I mean, somebody misconfigures an Amazon EC2-- >> Simon: That's right. >> -okay, it's not Amazon, it's the shared responsibility, and the same thing with the GDPR, malware. >> It really is, but I think, when we think about what the major challenges that just about every business faces, it's how do they scale their operations in a way that's going to' allow them to really take advantage of this thing we're calling "Digital Transformation," I know it's an over-used term, but-- >> Dave: But it's real. >> It is real, it is real. And I'll research, we asked a question in a survey recently, which is, "What is your organization's single biggest barrier?" And it's, "We don't respond quickly enough to the business." It's the biggest objective, but it's also the most difficult barrier to overcome. And I think we're only going to start to address this if we can fundamentally have a different look at how we scale operations, and that's across the application estate, across the infrastructure, it's also across data, right? And it's modernized, and it's transforming the way we think about managing data, and it's, we don't want to repeat the mistakes of the past and end up with a zillion silos that all have a person that needs managing that silo, that environment. We've done that. We don't want to, as we move to multi-cloud, and we acknowledge that data and applications are going to' be in a greater diversity of locations, we have to have a model that scales to managing across those environments. And it's that kind of consistency of approach that I think the industry is lacking, but there's definitely an awareness that we need to address though. >> Yeah, so given that there's that awareness and there's a need there for the market, there has been a refresh in data protection in that part of the industry. Nothing much was happening for probably a good 10 years. David LaMein was kind of the last big disrupter that we had in that marketplace. And then it feels like overnight, everything changed. And suddenly there were a whole bunch of competitors all trying to go after this data-protection market, and veeAM being one of them. So with that challenge for customers happening, and this dynamic market, how do you see the market dynamics evolving as we go through what veeAM calls its "Act Two," and people start moving to this hybrid cloud. What does that look like from your research? >> I think from a customer's perspective, it is often actually just perplexing. I mean, where do you start? How do you think about this on a strategic basis? And again, some of our research has pointed out, highlighted that, again, it's kind of obvious, but, how do we get better alignment between IT and the business? And when we asked about that in the context of digital transformation, it was the businesses, it was the respondents that said, "Yes, our IT strategy is being developed in lock-step with the business," right? Those are the companies that feel like they can, that they have a good handle on this digital transformation. Data transformation. And we do see a bit of a, almost kind of a schism opening up. There is a kind of digital leaders, and there are definitely digital laggards that are really, really struggling with this. And I think that, to me, means opportunity. I mean, there's opportunity for vendors to come here, to come in here and address it. I think with data protection specifically, if you'd have said 10 years ago that there was almost kind of a Cambrian explosion of start-ups and new companies in backup recovery, and data protection, DR. That sounded like madness a decade ago. You know, we've seen absolute explosion, huge number of companies coming together, coming to market with real innovation, which ultimately, I think, is going to' be good for customers. I think there's probably too many for the market to sustain at this point, 'cause all these new entrants, none of the incumbents are going away. But I think it's going to' be very much a partner-centric kind of success. There's a realization I think from, certainly from the hyperscale cloud providers that they're not going to be able to do this on their own, right? They're going to' have to work with "legacy" incumbents. These guys definitely have a role to play. I mean, I was just in a session earlier today talking about VTL in the cloud. >> Dave: Yeah. >> I mean (laughing) VTL?! In the cloud?! (laughing) >> Legacy processes, they're hard to kill. >> But the more this evolves, the more it seems like the public cloud is starting to resemble kind of the on-prem world in some ways. >> Well that's interesting. You know I was in London a couple of weeks ago for the AWS summit and Matt Garman, who's the AWS exec, I think he's the guy who first launched EC2, he was the product manager at the time. Now he's the senior executive. He said, "We believe the vast majority of customers will eventually migrate all workloads into the cloud." And then it was, "But," and this is the "but" that they wouldn't have acknowledged two years ago, we realize that its a hybrid world-- >> We can't do this ourselves. >> And then they talked about snowball, and outpost, and all these other things that they're doing. And Microsoft has always had a different posture. Of course it has a huge on-premise state. But let's talk a little bit about the horses on the track. So you were mentioning some of the legacy backup guys, all the start-ups coming in. There's been over a billion and a half raised for data protection. So you've got Veritas, Dell EMC, IBM with its Tivoli business, it's done some stuff with Catalogic. And then you've got Cohesity and Rubrik trying to get escape velocity, so they got tons of cash, having big parties, trying to replicate that marketing momentum. And you've got veeAM, has, to your point, Simon, built a billion dollar software business, okay. And is now saying, "Okay, we're going into the next wave." >> And profitable! I was speaking with Ratmir this morning, and they were actually cash-flow positive and on gap-basis as well, they're making money! >> There's nothing more atypical than-- >> I know! >> --a start-up type company that's making money. >> And you've got specialists. You've got Drover in there and Zerto-- >> Simon: Yeah, you've got Zerto, you got, >> --you know, a lot of guys, Amantis just got taken out by Cohesity, so. How do you guys see that competitive market shaking out, Dave Russel did the bubble chart, Ratmir showed it yesterday, 15 billion. Is the tam big enough to support all these guys? What do they have to do to get return for their investors? We're talking IPO's in the future before the window closes. It's getting hairy. >> It is, and you know, certainly some of those incumbents are not without having their challenges. I think it's incumbent on them to listen to what customers are asking for. Customers are moving to the cloud, right? They're going to' do that with or without the legacy guys. So they have to get on-board with that and help manage that process for customers. I think what I like about some of the newer guys, the Rubrik's, the Cohesity's, is they are talking about this bigger picture, this issue that, we said at the start, that many organizations acknowledges is a real challenge, and that's having an overall view into their data estate, their data assets. But for many different reasons, it's always been very, very difficult to crack that on a holistic basis. These guys are putting together some compelling stories, some compelling products to do that, and customers are definitely buying it. Now it's not on the scale that they're buying Veeam on a very tactical basis, so I think the challenge for Veeam is to evolve their own proposition from being pretty tactical, important, absolutely, but to kind of move up the value chain from there. And I think we are starting to see many examples of how that is coming into play with some of the announcements we've had at the show today. >> Yeah, I mean, to your point. A billion dollars profitable, 350,000 customers, and a modern sort of approach. >> Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We've heard simplicity so many times over the last couple of days, but to me when we talk about if the challenge is operational scale, you can't do that without simplicity. And I think the fact that they acknowledge that from a very early date, we speak to a lot of, you know, customers overall, but lots of veeAM customers. Every single one says, "I love the simplicity." It works, it just works. You know, it's these kinds of things that they really do matter, because, not just because it just sounds great, but actually it lets, it either lets the administrator do other things, it's freeing up their time, or it allows a different part, maybe a less experienced or different type of professional to come in and manage the environment and not have to have a PhD in storage and backup and all those things that made this such a human capital-intensive process in the past. >> Easy and simple, they're easy, things to claim, and many companies actually try to claim that they're either easy or simple. It's really difficult to actually deliver on. >> That's right. >> But when you have customers coming back to you and telling you, "You are simple and easy to use," That's when you know that you've got it right. >> What I like about veeAM's messaging is, I've heard it a lot this week, is it's, start with backup. It actually is all about the backup, and you don't hear that from a lot of the upstarts, they're like, "No, no, no, backup. It's all about the data management." It's this sort of vision, these guys used the term "aspirational," almost as a pejorative. >> Right. >> So it's kind of interesting to see that competitive battle and then you've got the legacy guys trying to hang onto their install base, maybe making some announcements, I mean, Dell EMC just made a bunch of announcements, and kind of came out and admitted, "Hey, we took our eye off the ball." Obviously Veritas has a huge install base that everybody's trying to attack. IBM with Tivoli. >> There's a new CEO at Commvault. >> Yeah, and Commvault. We, I don't want to leave them out of the equation, right? They're doing their enterprise piece. And they've always had a little different angle on this space, so, there's a lot of action going on here. 15 billion, half of that is probably backup. >> The challenge is that this isn't a homogenous market, right? >> Dave: Right, very fragmented. >> There are just so many different things that we need to protect. There are so many different ways we can protect them, that soon just started getting into the details, that's when it starts, the market starts to stratify. >> And with cloud and new programming-- >> And people keep creating new ones, you know, object storage comes up, and then we've got no sequel databases that are now happening. >> Microservices, kubernetes, protection-- >> The whole container thing which we haven't really heard an awful lot about this week, I think. I mean, I'm looking forward to seein' how veeAM's story evolves there, but if we do accept that containers, kubernetes is going to be the new middleware that connects a new breed of infrastructure to a new application paradigm, if you like, then that's going to' need protecting. So I think we talk about it, backup, as being tactical, but actually it is a start of a journey, and also, I think one thing that's come out from this last couple of days is the importance of DR, and that's absolutely reflected in our research when we ask about, "What are big challenges in the storage and data arena, DR is a top two challenge every single time. It's too expensive. It's too difficult to run, to build, to test. I've been hearing that for 15, 20 years, right? And we're still not there. >> You can't automate the testing, it's too dangerous to fail over and fail back, so we don't do it, and we don't test it, so we clearly haven't cracked this one as an industry, and there is massive latent demand, I think, and I think, as we think, I mean who can tolerate any sort of down time for any sort of application, right? It just becomes a prerequisite to have applications always on-line. You know, that prerequisite for effective DR is going to' continue. >> Okay, guys, we got to' go. Thanks very much, Simon, for coming on theCUBE. >> Simon: Hey, great! Great to be here! >> Great to have you. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be right back with our next guest, you're watching theCUBE, live, from veeAMON, 2019, Miami. We'll be right back. (theme music)

live from Miami Beach Florida Biman 2019 brought to you by beam welcome back to sunny Miami everybody you're watching the cube the leader in live tech coverage we like to go out to the events extract the signal from the noise and we're here at Vemma on 2019 I'm Dave Volante with my co-host this is day 2 Peter Burris and I have been covering wall-to-wall coverage with the cube folks from net APIs are here Jeff McCullough who's the vice president of Americas partner sales for net app and our good friend Keith Norby who runs alliances for net up guys great to see you thanks for coming on thanks for having us so Keith let's start with you V has been a partner of yours for a while now you guys go to market together year you have always been very partner friendly particularly when it comes to data protection but what's the state of the partnership today yeah this is something that we'd looked at a couple years ago and got into a very much more strategic relationship with veem over a year ago kind of work through a lot of ways to reconnect and establish a better together and this is something that we think is a strategic opportunity is kind of backed by a lot of the data you see at this show talking about you know organizations are gonna change roughly 60% of the organization is going to change their platform because of cost complexity reasons and together we've been working with Veeam to figure out how to deliver data protection for a data fabric and and IDC validates that in a number of ways that we can unpack here on this on the show or in the conversations with customers and and we've gotten great reaction to it and Jeff you lead America's partner sales from North America South America the whole kit and kaboodle talk more about your role sure well my responsibility is net at partners I am I'm successful when our partners successful are successful so everything I do is all around putting our partners in the position of you know executing being successful within that brand certainly being profitable right having profitable strong businesses and and growing right growing and taking taking market share and and helping them expand and grow their respective business law you guys have dramatically increased the percentage of your sales that come through the channel over the last you know 10 10 12 years yes pretty significantly and there's a fundamental part of your strategy stager at this executive level so yeah for sure you know channel is its core to what we do you know when we go to market you know with developing our products or executing our marketing plans it's all around how do we go execute with partners right whether it's the tools the partners need the pricings the programs to help them go engage in the market that leads to man generation and we're at various stages in all these but you know what I think you'll see consistently from the partners that you know certainly will talk and talk about their net businesses we generally lead in profitability across our partner base and we absolutely lead in terms of total profitability when you include things like services attached and how we go and execute on us partner delivered services strategy so you know from I always say NetApp is it's not just a product category it's a whole economy for our channel and it puts people to work it allows them to expand and grow their teams and it's it's a critical part of many many of the partners that are here today at veeneman certain v-mon and and certainly in the marketplace and your partner friendly and assess that you don't have a huge services organization that's competing with your channel i mean that's a jerk yeah we put partner services in the forefront of everything we do Keith you talked about better together yeah what does that mean just in terms of engineering integration go to market I mean how did you sort over the last two years you know get better together what specific actions were you guys taking I think you got to look at it first from kind of the customer in the markets in and you got a look at what's the dynamic that requires change right that sort of shapes what your PRD and your Mardis are to make a product in this case you know we've got platforms that have incredible snapshot technologies so to me it really starts there with simplifying the way that you get the first copy of data and then simply working with the strengths that veem has and their platforms and making sure that we have great option ality between our replication and other snapshot technologies their replication tech to be able to give a level of flexibility for this data fabric to come to life you know no matter if you've got the traditional data center that's got these enterprise apps like at sa P Hana or others or you built the next generation data center like on that FH CI and you're building up scale out via more private cloud or you've got the hyper scalar cloud you know with our cloud volumes you know we have options on how we get data throughout the copy process of primary to secondary to you know cloud and tertiary data so you know to us it was about really making that as simple and as pre-wired as possible via the api's and then really making that easy for partners to go and grab on to to make it easy for someone to buy us because you always want to build something that people want to buy no one wants to be sold any of this stuff and so building the right thing that people want to buy the next step then with Jeff and reason why is so critical to this is getting that ready for the partners be able to have an easy process with their customers that frankly they love people hate to be sold they love to buy yeah let's talk about they love to buy one of the challenges that the entire industry has is we move through the significant transformation is customers user organizations or themselves in the midst of huge transformations institutional transformations technology transformations relationship with their business transformation mission transformation just starting with this whole role that the channel is has been playing it's going to play how will the channel be an increasing source of value add in the deal yeah how's that playing out to help these customers you know smooth their changes yeah and I think you know I was just watching the news this morning right target announced their earnings and a big part of their earnings announcement was the improvement they made in customer interaction through digital platforms right the ability to order online pick up in the store or order online and have it delivered same-day right and these are and it's just you know one example you can go down the list of customers that have really used transformation to change their business right and you know Chipotle who's trans you know they've transformed burritos now and a lot of their successes come through digital transformation platforms so you know the evidence is overwhelming that digital transformation drives better results and we've done a lot of study at this right we we have lots of detail around customers that know how to use data and you know that the basic fact is one out of ten customers is in a position to actually leverage data effectively right this is all of the research we've done along you know with partners with with other companies the other nine need help and this is where channel partners come in this is what I tell partners all the time is this digital transformation wave is real the results are real and the customers need to move is is real and so they play a role in can play a role in helping customers accelerate that digital transformation and so our portfolio is all around accelerating customers and their ability to leverage data to transform their business and partners through both of the portfolio that they sell but then the partner driven services that we promote and drive you know really stand out in the forefront of being able to help a customer execute these these really tough strategies and in you know the thing that reason why customers love partners is partners bring choices right and you know for us as vendors we have to deal with the other side of that which is partners have choices and who they sell so we represent a portfolio that is forward thinking it aligns to where the market is going the lines to the tough problems that customers have and it's you know in its a position that allows partners to be profitable and and make money helping customers transform and deliver their own success but it's got to be more than just partners cat create choices and here's one explain what I mean by that it's increasingly your typical CIO medium-sized company large size company which is where we spend most of our time is thinking in terms of what is going to bring me value today and also generate a stream of value for me in the future so I need choice now but options for the future that are relevant and meaningful and so partners increasingly have to be part of that options equation how are they going to create options for customers and you know one of the nice things about the relationship that you have the theme is that you are a partner to veem and presumably you're going to help Veen customers create additional types of options through this expanding folio of value that you guys have so so talk about that dynamic because it really requires an even greater dependency on that customer partner engagement including you know the dependency the beam has on on you guys yeah doing it maybe start with just the veem partnership partnership yeah I think you know which we create the conditions with which I think a partner comes to life with what we've tried to do in in the product building solutions and then trying to develop the go-to-market around the partners ability to go meet the market and what the market is asking for in such you know the partners have natural services on the front side of the assessments a bit like trying to help you plan your 401 K they help you like see what kind of data you don't even see we have a wealth of partners that just have incredible skills there and then as they take that through our solution we do everything we can to make that process easy to match our technology to that design requirement and then afterwards the partners always have these these great capabilities for things like you know a one call or a managed service to help take even more complexity off the table for people to just live with the ability to have data protected across all spectrums of where they have data live so the partner equation is definitely getting more complicated right if you dial back you know half a decade decade you had guys who sold hardware boxes they livox sellers we love them but and they moved a lot of a lot of product and they worked with you okay now the cloud comes in you guys they're going you know software-defined so you can run your services in the cloud you know or you run it on Prem you've got hybrid so it's a complicated equation much more so than it was in the past so how are you seeing the partners evolve and transform you know beyond the sort of box selling mentality of course you know VMware specialists you get those guys at sa P maybe Oracle but yeah but it's even more than that now with cloud isn't it oh yeah yeah you know cloud is you know kind of the third big disruptive wave in the channel right if you think of kind of client-server is the big first disruptive way of virtualization the second disruptive way to now cloud just purely from a channel perspective the third big one and maybe the biggest right because it is completely changing the dynamics and the economics of how partners operate and you know and we've been looking at this for you know for a long time and certainly as we move our portfolio as we transition our portfolio to be cloud enabled and native to the cloud it creates options but but you know the market is moving from you know deal based revenue to reoccurring revenue and what I see partners moving to is various various degrees of reoccurring revenue strategies whether they're setting up their own MSP business and they're opening up shop and they're doing data protection on demand or they are doing managed services on premise and they're charging customer or they're buying out the infrastructure I'm charging a customer once a month or they're selling services in the cloud and in what I think is also interesting and you can see the kind of the direction where the industry of a channel is going is when you look at the acquisitions that partners are making not only of each other but of software development right IP there are going out and buying software development because the the the long term opportunity is not just selling the infrastructure it's selling a solution solving a big problem right which could be this digital transformation opportunity but it's it's more than just sure I can I can upgrade your servers it's their digital transformation right it is you know you know kind of clouds not really a destination right everybody thinks clouds the destination I got to get to you know it's not a destination it's a tool in the bag that you know customer is going to use and certainly a partner is going to leverage cloud to create a money stream write a business model that is sustainable and can grow but it's super dynamically different than what we do you know what they're doing today so you guys talk about profitability before you had a point go ahead and I say balance all that against I think we're the volume the mass of the volume is even though the hyper scalars have a tremendous amount of growth it is still VM based it is still kind of on-prem based and so there's still in this two-year window of change the vast majority of the opportunity is going to be on Prem but you also have to factor in how you involve the cloud and that strategy as what ratmir would called second wave right of beams strategy and we're right in the heart of that I mean there isn't any greater strength than what we're doing as a company with NetApp than what we're doing with cloud and it's just a natural way for us to extend you know a partner's capability a customer's ability to buy what they what you'd want to get from NetApp and beam together well and what the hyper scales have done is they've changed the way in which people consume technology absolutely understand and NetApp is a great case study of a company that's moving through that process from a product orientation to a services orientation the key I want to come back to this notion of how the NetApp relationship with Veen creates new classes of options for Ravine customers as they thought try to think about data protection differently because precisely because it's Dave said you have expanded your portfolio you are going to market with a different value proposition than a couple years ago how is that playing out in your conversations with customers as they think about moving from a data protection that's focused on devices to a data protection that's focused on delivery of digital services yeah well it's not a great topic to talk about where do you start with that organically I think you look at the way people try to operate and deal with the operations of data protection you know it really starts there because you know cloud is really about IT operations what we've done is really try to simplify that stack to get beyond it being one single endpoint of technology so it's not just about how we take data sets you know from say a net F as or a net of HCI and bring it through Veeam to another thousand or eseries and then off to the cloud you know it's beyond just the basic technology it's much more operational and it's in its nature so if you look at all the stuff they're talking about here with VOA and all the discovery elements that they're doing to help make it easier one of the one of the areas that IDC caught particularly in one of our benefit statements on taking complexity off the table is our ability to have autodiscover of yemm's you know it's it's ways that you could make much more autonomy and orchestration of operations kind of come to life as a way of you doing this technology together that's only just one of the example points that we have on this better together with veem taking the heart of their core technology and where they're being you know pervade of in in not just a VM centric crowd but also hyper-v and some of the other things they talked about that's kind of the top of their rationalize stack and then bringing that down through the heart of our data fabric portfolio and saying you know any one point at which you're at we were able to put these things together at the heart of the first step and we kind of mapped this customer journey out in our presentation to the attendees here was this customer journey from the current form of complexities you have you know and moving that all the way through to snapshot integration platform selection of which ones would make sense for what scenario how we work through veem x' data replication and management technologies our data replication our data fabric technologies to get from one endpoint to the other so and then ultimately you gotta be able talk about the ability to restore or you really shouldn't be talking about backup all right we got a wrap but I'm gonna ask you guys each question Jeff from trip reports so from your standpoint you talkin sales momentum with partners what are you gonna tell your colleagues and Keith obviously the partnership with Veen what what are you gonna tell your colleagues when you get back home yeah so so for me it's you know this is we've talked about transformation this you know I think our relationship with Veeam and the strategies that we're executing is all around transforming data protection right and it's really around this concept of simplification and I think as we were chatting before before we started taping the you know simple simple matters right simplification or simple is really attractive feature and you know our ability to simplify data protection for customers in partnership with Veeam deliver solution that's you know clearly world-class and you know NetApp bringing world-class technology to the table it's a great partnership it creates an opportunity for us to go and have conversations with customers that made me never thought of NetApp before and and it's you know an opportunity for us to open a lot of doors and certainly for me what I care about it's an opportunity for our partners to open a lot of doors yeah I would just say listen we worked from our joint CEOs together so George and ratmir starting this like joint bond of alignment all the way down through product solutions feel Geo's channels we're gonna have explosive growth together you know we're gonna go address this market that is looking to change we've got something we're bringing together and it's absolutely better together great power players aligning at the top all the way down through the channel to the partners into the cloud bringing you all the data here the cube Jeff and Keith thanks very much for coming on the cube keep it right to everybody Peter Burris and I will be back with our next guest right after this short break we're live from Miami at Vemma in 2019 over a pack

>> Announcer: Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to the Fontainebleau, Miami, everybody. My name is Dave Vellante, I'm here with my co-host for this segment, Justin Warren. Justin it's great to see you. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, day two of our coverage of VeeamON 2019 here in Miami. Jason Buffington, @Jbuff is here, he's the vice president of solution strategy congratulations on the promotion and great to see you again, my friend. >> Thank you very much. >> Dave: And Nathan Hughes who is the IT director at Flex-N-Gate. Great to see you, thanks for coming on. We love to get the customer's perspective, so welcome. >> Great to be here. >> Okay, so, Jason let me start with you. Former analyst, you've been at Veeam now for long enough to A, get promoted, but also, get the Kool-Aid injection, you're wearing the green, and, what are the big trends that you're seeing in the market that are really driving this next era, what do guys call it? Act two of data protection? >> Sure. So, I preached on this even before I joined Veeam that every 10 years or so, when the industry shifts the platform of choice, the data protection vendors almost always reset, right? The people that lead in NetWare don't lead in Windows. The people that lead in Windows didn't lead in Vert. The next wave is we're moving from servers to services. Right, we're going from on prem into cloud and so, and every time the problem is the secret sauce doesn't line up, right? So you got to reinvent yourself each time. And what we saw in the past generations, what we learned from, is, you can't be so busy taking care of your install base that you forget to keep innovating on what that next platform is and so for us, act two is all about cloud. We're going to take everything we know about reliability but we're moving into cloud. The difference is, that in virtualization there was one hero scenario. VMs, right? This time around it's IaaS, it's SaaS, it's PaaS, it's using cloud storage, it's BaaS and DRaaS, there's not a single hero scenario which means we have a lot more innovation to do. That's round two. >> And you made that point today, you used the Archimedes quote, give me a lever and a fulcrum and I'll change the world. You used the analogy of backup as now becoming much more than just backup, it's data protection, it's data management, we're going to get into that. And test some of that with Nathan. So, Nathan, tell us about Flex-N-Gate what does the company do and what does your role as IT director entail? >> Okay, so Flex-N-Gate is a tier one automotive supplier. Which means that we provide parts, most of the things that go into a car besides electronics and glass, to the final automotive makers. So most of the companies that you're familiar with when you go to buy one. >> Okay, so you guys are global, I think you've got what, 24,000 associates worldwide, 64 locations. So what're some of the things that are, fundamental drivers of your business, that are rippling through to your IT strategy? >> Well, our business is varied in the sense that we do a lot of different things in house so, we do, obviously, manufacturing, that's a big part of what we do. And then, even that is broken down into different kinds and then beyond manufacturing we have advanced product development and engineering so we do a lot of that in house. >> Dave: You support it all? >> Yes. >> So you've got diverse lines of business, you've got different roles and personas, you know, engineers versus business people versus finance people. And you got to make 'em all happy. >> We've got to make 'em all happy. >> So, one of the things I love about manufacturing examples, is if you think about it it's the two extremes of high tech and low tech, right? On the low tech side of things you've got this manufacturing floor and it's just producing real stuff, not the zeros and ones that we live with, but real things come off this line. And then you have the engineering and R and D side. Where they're absolutely focused on stuff that comes out of some engineer's head into a computer, which is truly unique data, so, one of the things I love about the story is, talk about the downtime challenges you have around the manufacturing floor. Because I learned some things when we first met, that I think is phenomenal when it comes to manufacturing things that I didn't realize. >> Sure. So, we have a lot of different kinds of manufacturing environments. Some of them are more passive and some of them are more active. The most active environments are, a form of manufacturing known as sequencing. And it's sort of where you bring final assembly of parts together right before they go to the customer. The way that customers order up parts these days, it's not like they used to back in the 70s and 80s. Where they would warehouse huge volumes of everything on their site and then just draw it down if they needed it. And you just kept the queue full. Now they want everything just in time delivery. So they basically want parts to come to the line right when they're needed and actually in the order they're needed. So, a final car maker, they're not necessarily making, 300 of the same thing in a row, they're going to make one of this in blue and one of that in red and they're all going to be sequenced behind each other, one right after the other on the assembly line. And they want the parts from the suppliers to come in the exact right order for that environment. So, the challenge with that from our perspective is that we have trucking windows that are between 30, maybe 60 minutes on the high end, and if anything goes badly, you can put the customer down. And now you're talking about stopping production at Ford, Chrysler, GM, whatever. And that's a lot of money and a lot of other suppliers impacted. >> Dave: So this is a data problem isn't it? >> Yeah, it definitely is. And it's an interesting point, 'cause, you talk about sequencing. Veeam has their own sequence about how customers use the product and they start with backup, everything starts with backup, and then they move further to the right so that you get, ideally, to fully automated data protection. So, what are you actually using Veeam for today? And where do you see yourself going with Veeam? >> So, right now, we're using Veeam primarily as backup and recovery. It's how we started with it. We came from another product that was, great conceptually, but in the real world it had terrible reliability and its performance was very poor as time went on and so, when Veeam came on the scene it was a breath of fresh air because we got to the place where we knew that what we had was dependable, it was reliable. We got to understand how the product worked and to improve the way that we'd implemented it. And so, one of the key features in Veeam that really actually excited us, especially in those sequencing environments are these instant recovery options, right? So, we were used to the idea of having to write down a VM out of snapshot storage. And then being put in a position where it might take an hour, two hours, three hours before you could get that thing back online now, or again, to be able to launch that right out of snapshot storage was a blessing in the industry we're in. >> Yeah, did you see the tech demo yesterday where they were showing off how you could do an instant recovery directly from cloud storage? >> Yes, yeah. >> Did that get you excited? >> Yes. That is exciting. >> Are you using cloud at the moment or is this something that you're looking to move towards? >> Cloud is something we're sort of investigating but it's not something that we're actively utilizing right now. >> So this instance recovery, you guys obviously make a big deal out of that, I was talking to Danny Allan yesterday offline about it. He claims it's unique in the industry. And I asked him a question, I said specifically, if you lose the catalog, can I actually get the data back? And he said yes. And I'm like, that sounds like magic. So, so I guess my question to maybe both of you is, instant, how instant? And how does it actually work? (he laughs) >> It just works, isn't that? >> It just works! >> It's just magic, new tagline? >> I guess we don't have to get into the weeds but when you say, when I hear instant recovery, we're talking like, (fingers clicking) instantaneous recovery with, very short RTOs? >> To us what that means is that in practice, we can expect to have a VM from snapshot data back into production in about a five minute window. >> Dave: Five minutes? Okay. >> And that is sufficient for our needs in any environment. >> Okay, so now we're talking RTO, right? And then, what about, so we said 64 sites across the world, 24,000 associates, is Veeam your enterprise wide data protection strategy or are you rolling it out now? Where are you at? >> Yes, no. Veeam, we started with it in a handful of key sites. And we were using it to specifically back up SharePoint and a few other platforms. But once we understood what the product was capable of, and we were sort of reaching the end of our rope with this former product, yeah, we began an active roll out and we've now had Veeam in our facilities for five, six years. >> So you swept the floor of that previous product. And how complicated was it for you to move from the legacy product to Veeam? >> It was a challenge just rethinking the way that we do things, the previous product, one thing that it really had going for it, if this could be considered a positive, I guess, is that it was very very simple to set up. So, you could take an entry level IT administrator and they just next, next, next, next, next. And it would do all the things that they needed it to do. But the problem was that in the real world, that was sort of the Achilles' Heel, because, it meant that it wasn't very well customized and it meant also that, the way that they've developed that product, it became performance, it had poor performance. >> So the reason I ask that question is because, so many times customers are stuck. And it's like they don't want to move, because it's a pain. But the longer they go, the more costly it is, down the road. So I'm always looking to IT practitioners like, advice that you would give in terms of others, things that you might do differently if you had a mulligan, I don't know, maybe you would've started sooner, or maybe there were some things that you'd do differently. What would you advise? >> Yeah, I mean, if we'd understood, the whole context of what was happening with that other product, we would've moved sooner. And the one thing that I will say about Veeam is, it's not click and point. It does involve a little more setup. But the Veeam team is excellent when it comes to support. So there's nothing to fear in that category because they stand behind their product and it's very easy to get qualified technicians to help you out. >> Is that by design? >> I don't know if it's. Well, the being great to work with, yes, that's by design. >> Yeah, but I mean. >> I was talking to Danny yesterday and asked about the interface thing. Because there is always that tension between making it really really simple to use but then it doesn't have any knobs to change when you need to. >> That's what I'm asking. >> But it can't be too complex either. >> Our gap actually comes a little bit later in the process, right? So, you asked earlier about, in what ways do you use Veeam? And we think about Veeam as a progression, right? So, everybody if they're using Veeam at all, they're using it for Veeam backup and replication and because foundationally, until you can protect your stuff, right? Until you can reliably do that, all the other stuff that you'd like to do around data management is aspirational and unattainable at best, right? So, we think the journey comes in at yeah, it is pretty easy, to go next, next, next, finish. Just a few tweaks, right? To get backup going. But then when you go beyond that, now there's a whole range of other things you can do, right? So Danny, I'm sure, talked about DataLabs yesterday. The orchestration engine, those are not, next, next, next, finish. But anything that's worthwhile takes a little bit of effort, right? So as we pivot from, now that you've solved backup, then you can do those other things and that's where we really start going back into something which is really more expertise driven. >> Well, and it's early days too and as you get more data and more experience you can begin to automate things. >> Yeah, absolutely. So Justin was asking, Nathan, where the direction is. Today it's really backup. You've seen the stages where, talking about full automation. Is that something that, is on the horizon, it is sort of near term, midterm, longterm? >> I mean, coming to the conference, our experience with backup, or Veeam, is primarily backup and recovery operations but, I've seen a lot of things in the last few days that have piqued my interest. Particularly when it comes to the cloud integration. That's being actively baked into the product now. And, some of the automated, API stuff, that's being built into the product. Any place where I can get to where we simplify our procedures for recovery, that's a plus. So I'm really excited about the idea of the virtual labs, being able to actively test backup on a regular basis without human intervention and have reporting out of that. Those are things that I don't see in any other product that's out there. >> You know, there's another piece of the innovation that we should think through, and, so we've talked about the sequencing side which is where we focus on RTO, how fast can you get back and running again? And when you and I talked earlier, the example that we worked on was think of a zipper, right? You've got the bumpers coming in to a line of cars and if either side slows down, everything breaks, and at the end, by the way, is the truck, right? And everything has to come at the same time at the same rate, if there's downtime on either side of the source, you're done. But that's an RTO problem. The engineering side, for high tech, is an RPO problem, right? You have unique stuff coming out of somebody's brain into a PC and it'll never come out that way again. And so, when we look at backup and replication, that should be the next pieces to go on. And then as you mentioned, DataLabs becomes really interesting and orchestration, so. >> Well speaking of human brains, and you kind of touched on it, Nathan, that you came here to learn some things and you've learned things from different sessions. So, what is it about coming to VeeamON that is worth the time for IT practitioners like yourself? >> I think it's all those, I mean we were talking about Veeam, doing backup and recovery operations, fairly straightforwardly, in terms of getting in, but once you see some of this stuff here at a conference like this, you get a better sense of all the more, elaborate aspects of the product. And, you wouldn't get that >> See the possibilities. >> I think, if you were just sitting in front of it using it conventionally, this is a good place to really learn the depth and the level that you can go with it. >> And you're like most of your peers here, is that right, highly virtualized, is that right? Lot of Microsoft apps. And, they say, mid-sized global organization, actually kind of bumping up into big. >> Nathan: Sure. >> Yeah, cool. I asked about the data problem before, it sounds like the zipper's coming together, that's some funky math that you got to figure out to make sure everything's there. So, talk about the data angle. How important data is to your organization, we know much data's growing, data's the new oil, all those promides but, what about your organization specifically as it relates to a digital strategy? It's a buzzword that we hear a lot but, does it have meaning for you, and what does it mean? >> Data is vital in any organization. I mean, we were referencing earlier, how you've got low tech in manufacturing, or at least people think of it as lower tech. And then high tech in R and D, and how those things merge together in a single company. But the reality is all of that is data driven, right? Even when you go to the shop floor, all your scheduling, all your automation equipment, all this stuff is talking and it's all laying down data. You're putting rivets in the parts, you're probably taking pictures of that now with imagers when you're in manufacturing. And you do that so that if you get 300 bad ones you can see exactly when that started and what happened at the machine level, right? So, >> That's a good one. >> We're just constantly collecting massive volumes of new data, and being able to store that reliably is everything. >> Well, and the reason I'm asking is you guys have been around for a while and your a highly distributed organization so, in the old days, even still today, you'd build, you'd get a server for an application, you'd harden that application, you'd secure that box and the application running on it, you'd lock the data inside and, my question is, can, the backup approach, the data protection approach, the data management, or whatever we want to call it, can it help solve that data silo problem? Is that part of the strategy or is it just too early for that? >> I'm, sorry, I'm going to get you to repeat that question in a slightly different way. >> Yeah so, am I correct that you've got data in silos from all the years and years and years of building up applications and-- >> I mean, we have-- >> And can you use something like Veeam to help unify that data model? >> Draw that all together? Yeah. I think a lot of that has, it's more on the hosting side, right? So it depends on how those systems were rolled out originally and all that kind of thing. But yeah, as we've moved towards Veeam, we've necessarily rebuilt some of those systems in such a way that they are more aggregated and that Veeam can pick them up in an integrated kind of way. >> You see that as a common theme? Veeam as one of the levers of the fulcrum to new data architecture? >> We're getting there, so here's the trick. So, first you got to solve for basic protection, right? But the next thing along the way to really get towards data management is you got to know what you got, right? You got to know what's actually in those zeros and ones. And so, some of the things that you've already seen from us are around what we do around GDPR compliance, some of the things we do around sanitization of data for DevOps scenarios and reuse scenarios. All of that opens up a box of, okay, now that the data is curated. Now that it's ingested into our system, what else can you do with it? You know, when I talk to C-level execs, what I tell them is, data protection, no matter who it comes from, including Veeam, is really expensive if the only thing you do is put that data in a box and wait for bad things to happen, right? Now the good news is, bad things are going to happen, so you're going to get ROI. But better is don't just leave your data in a box, right? Do other stuff with that data, unlock the value of it and some of that value comes in, now that I'm more aware of it, let's reduce some of the copies, let's reduce some of the compliance mandates. Let's only put data that has sovereignty requirements where it goes, but to do all of that, you got to know what you got. >> Go ahead, please. >> There was some impressive demo yesterday about exactly that, so, we have the data. You can use the API to script it and you can do all kinds of, basically, you're limited by your imagination. So it's going to be fascinating to see what customers do with it once they've put it in place, they've got their data protected. And then they start playing with things, come to a conference like this and learn, ooh, I might just give that a try on my data when I get back home. >> That's right. >> We'll give the customer the last word, Nathan. Impressions of VeeamON 2019? >> It's been great. And like I say, if you're a company that's been using Veeam even for a while, and you have your entry level setup for backup and recovery and I think there's a lot of, probably, companies out there that use Veeam in that kind of way, this is a great place to have a better understanding of all that's available to you in that product. And there's a lot more than just meets the eye. >> And it's fun, good food, fun people. Thanks you guys for coming on, really appreciate it. >> Yeah, thank you. >> Alright, keep it right there, buddy, we'll be back with our next guest, you're watching theCUBE, Dave Vellante, Justin Warren, and Peter Burris is also here. VeeamON 2019, we'll be right back. (electronic music)

live from Miami Beach Florida Biman 2019 brought to you by beam hi everybody welcome back to Miami I'm Dave Volante and this is day two of veeam on 2019 we're here at the Fontainebleau Hotel in beautiful sunny Miami a lot of swanky people a lot of big boats parties going on last night of course it's v-mon so you know there's a lot of fun this is the cube the leader in live tech coverage Allen Stern is here he's that technical solutions architect at Cisco really what that means is he's an evangelist the cube alam al and good to see you again great to see you again david coming on so yeah this is quite a venue as always Vemma action going on a lot of customers here 2,000 plus people so let's get into it hey Cisco we're gonna be at Cisco live in a couple weeks really excited about that it's gonna be a great show in San Diego absolutely another awesome venue we were in Barcelona earlier this year to do Cisco so we you know we love the circuit it's a great customer show I want to start with something that we talked about in Barcelona which is Cisco really as it evolves into the multi cloud world is is making the case that it's networks are more secure higher performance and more cost effective than anybody out there and it's in a good position to do that now we're gonna talk deep about infrastructure but I want to start there and just get your take on that sort of overall challenge to Cisco well it's not really a challenge it's an opportunity for us because we look at the cloud is this great opportunity you still have to have networking within your cloud provider you've still got to do all the things you do on your on-prem datacenter you just have to do it in somebody else's data center and what we've done is we wanted to simplify that operation so the way you deploy Cisco ACI on Prem you deploy it the same way in the cloud provider you're using the same interface and yeah on the backend we're doing different things because we're interfacing with their networking api's but to the end-user they don't have to know each cloud providers interface they just have to know Cisco and they know that it'll be configured correctly and if we think about what happens with a lot of the threats and attacks that occur in networks what's one of the easiest ways to get attacked it's a misconfigured network a firewall port that's left open but if you're doing it the same way every time regardless of where you're doing it that makes it a lot easier and reduces the the chance that you're going to make a mistake yeah and you guys can do the deep packet inspection you've got a lot of experience around that you're driving a lot of analytics and obviously machine intelligence is going to come into play and so but you've been able to go back to what you just said so give me an example so you guys have announced a multi cloud strategy is support basically you're essentially describing what we talked about on the cube all the time is bringing the cloud experience to your data wherever it is so whether it's on Prem in the public cloud supporting hybrid so you're saying for example if you've got a customer who's running on AWS and using you know heavily using AWS primitives and api's you make that transparent to the user is that correct absolutely okay and so it sounds like magic but it's a lot of hard work I'm sure a lot of software it is a lot of hard work from a lot of really smart people inside of Cisco that are we have some amazing developers now your your sweet spot is the infrastructure side of the business so UCS and and and obviously the partnership with Vemma which we'll get into but what's your swimlane so my swimlane really is our software-defined storage partners and our data protection partners and when when I started on this role a few years ago they seemed very very much separate and now what we're seeing is they're coming very much together because what are we what are customers looking to get away from tape what do they need large amounts of storage because we've seen this explosion of data we talked about it last year and we're seeing terms like yottabyte and branagh byte and I remember when I first saw branagh byte I was like is this something you know somebody watched too many episodes of The Flintstones but no it's it's a real term a yottabyte is a thousand exabytes and a branagh byte is a thousand yottabytes so data is growing at multiple orders of magnitude on a regular basis and we've got to store it differently than we have in the past if somebody sent me a stat and no just would you just reminded me of it Allen a couple months ago and I got to go back and research it but if anybody out there knows the stat it was astounding to me it said by by like 2025 or 2022 there's gonna be more bytes of data created or stored than there are stars in the universe now that just blew my mind and we could do the math and figure that out but I gotta go back and check out the link but to your point the the growth curve it's it's nonlinear you know used to be Moore's law and now their curve is is reshaping so when everybody talks about digital transformation they're what they're really talking about is making their business digital which is all about data and you talk about getting away from tape you can't have a bit digital business that runs on tape you could save tape you know for deep archive and stick it in the iron mountain or whatever but you can't recover yeah right now keep your business running 24/7 so to your point about those worlds coming together that really underscores it so what's your role in supporting digital business strategies and keeping businesses up and doing fast recovery and your partnership with Veen so we provide great platforms for folks like beam and the object storage vendor so beam now has fantastic integration with the s3 interface that many of these object providers allow cisco has very deep platforms you know we've got a 4u box that can hold 768 terabytes of data and if you think about how much data that is you know two of these units it's a petabyte and a half of data I mean that's a fantastic amount of data it's online it's available to them if they need to restore it they can do it quickly because each of those nodes has 160 gigabits per second of network connectivity but more importantly if they want to use some of this data it's available to them right on the platform they don't have to pull back the tape restore from tape and hope they got the right one it's about data management really yeah you're talking about all these fights and yottabytes and exabytes and and the growth of storage are you seeing a really a big a big wave a trend toward the petabyte data center yeah absolutely I mean it used to be petabytes where the purview of only the fortune 500 maybe and now we're seeing it really across the board as companies yeah we're digital hoarders and you look at my laptop I've got emails from 10 years ago I've got pictures of everything from forever companies are no different because we're there looking at data and saying I've got this data I'm not sure if it's valuable today but it may be worth something tomorrow let me hold on to it but their ability to access it and use it that's going to be the critical piece because you know it's like an oversized storage unit you stuff it full of stuff you're not really sure what's in there and if you have to find that one little widget that's in there forget it as the tools get better to go find the data within the bit bucket I mean that's where the real value is coming so we could go a little journey down memory lane and talk about the Cisco strategy and how its evolved I remember when you started you know it would ucs and I was like wow that's Cisco's getting into servers and kind of didn't really understand it until I dug into it and you guys obviously we're trying to change the game with converged infrastructure and you had some partnerships to do that but I remember one of my first questions was you had like a zillion VMs that you can run on on this this block yep and I said how do you protect that and they're really at the time it was like 2009 it was like well we could kind of bolt on and that's the way backup was back then fast forward to 2019 it seems like data protection is much more of an integrated component of people's digital strategy so one of you could talk about that a little bit and how your strategy has evolved yeah and and it absolutely is because we're not just talking about data protection anymore if you look at the capabilities of folks like beam it's really about data management it's not just hey back it up put it over in the vault and forget about it never use it again it's back it up put it in the vault and if you need it I can bring it back really quickly I can use it to test data with I can use it to scan for malware so I'm not reintroducing an infection after I've cleaned it out so a lot of ways to use it and in Cisco's providing the platforms to do that the days of the old monolithic storage arrays they're still going to be here but the world for them is shrinking because you think about what do they do they're the last bastion of vertically integrated systems we saw storage you know the mainframe still here but the world for it shrunk as we had x86 systems with the operating system of choice so we're seeing the same thing happening with storage customers are just they want to be able to use all this data that's out there and in my career I've observed it's always been about recovery like when something goes wrong how do you recover that that's always the killer question right and and so but now it's even more complicated because of Eames messaging this week has been fast recovery they announced a bunch of stuff that you could recover you know directly from backup don't have to go to a replicated you know set of data and so the compression that the time to recover has really compressed so have you seen that how are you guys responding to that you know both technically and just from a business standpoint it's a great question you and I have enough gray hair to remember the days of planned downtime that's going on yeah so now it's how do we build a platform they're going to enable the software side of the recovery but if the platform isn't capable of keeping up with the software then you've got a disconnect so you've got to have disk systems disk up systems that are capable of keeping up you've got to have networking you've got to have a completely integrated system that not only do we look at it and go okay well this software should work here we know that it does and we do cisco validated designs with folks like beam to make sure that the customers don't have to turn all the different nerd knobs to make sure they're going to get the optimal performance because at the end of the day they don't have time for that that's not their area of expertise and we want to make sure that they've got the always-on enterprise so I'd love to talk about the the horses on the track of the competitive landscape and I especially want to explore a little bit with you Alan the multi cloud you know some people don't like that term III think it's fine a hybrid you know to me is different than multi cloud I've argued that multi cloud has largely been a system of multi bender where people just line a business shadow IT and then all of a sudden you have these multiple clouds and Sasa's and but increasingly now organizations organizations saying ok CIOs get a handle on this okay so multi-cloud strategies have started to come into play Cisco announced in February I believe at Cisco live Barcelona a big push into multi-cloud you certainly see Dell EMC talking about it Google announced you know certainly Microsoft is there you guys have partnerships you were onstage David Koechner was at Google next cloud next so it's at Red Hat IBM's acquisition of Red Hat so you you have all these interesting you know cooperative to a petition and and and and people companies going after this multi cloud so question how do you see the multi cloud opportunity what's Cisco's strategy with regard to that obviously you're coming at it from a standpoint of network and infrastructure strength but I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit and sort of summarize the opportunity and what your strategy is sure so I want to go back to a quote a famous quote by John Chambers he said we were plumbers for the network and being a plumber is an honorable profession and I think while we've certainly expanded beyond that we still do that whether you know you're talking about multi cloud strategies well you still got to connect to all of these different clouds whether it's you know infrastructure or as a service you've still got to connect to it so that it works efficiently for your enterprise we want to make sure that we enable that technology that we're giving the customers what they need from that technology and there's still room for for on-prem it's not like any of this is going away it's select whatever feature is best for that particular customer so you know if there's an as a service provider that does customer CRM better than anybody else by all means go use them and we'll help you connect to them help you secure it and with partners we may help you back up if it's email you know without saying who it is we know who it is but you've still got to back that up where are you going to back it up how are you going to have the networking how are you going to have security so Cisco provides all of that enabling technology to make sure that you've got the enterprise that's secure and you can connect all of them so it operates seamlessly for you as as your multi virtualized enterprise well and so cisco has always been a a partner friendly organization you've stressed optionality every one of those companies I mentioned is a partner of yours as well and you know it's like Joe Tucci said hey sometimes we compete sometimes we partner at the end of the day it's the customers going to decide right so if I understand you correctly just from a from a control playing standpoint you've got software technology that that your customers can use if a customer wants to use a VMware control plane you'll you'll play there or some other you know third party that's the strategy correct and but at the same time you're investing in your own IP to build the best control plane and other I guess you know network capabilities data playing infrastructure as possible yeah we wanted we're gonna leverage you know their infrastructure because in some ways they're ubiquitous but there's things that they don't do you know network analytics we do that better than anybody else with you know products like tetration also performs some security functions we have stealth watch you know at the branch you want to make sure that nefarious things aren't happening on your network that without you knowing it so we want to enable that visibility and allow the customers to take action so it's not just enabling the technologies it's protecting the technologies as well so I think a lot of it is things that these other infrastructure providers aren't doing or they're not doing well we can do well because of our history because of our continued investment in all of these areas you know Cisco we have a lot of money to spend on R&D and we spend it well to other areas I want to absolutely you get great engineers and also you do you do acquisitions pretty well but to other areas you want to cover that we haven't touched upon that much hyper-converged you know you said you guys kind of started the converged infrastructure or at least the modern era and then hyper-converged comes in you've got to play there and I want to talk about the edge but let's start with HCI so HCI we've got a fantastic platform in Cisco hyperflex we've continued to evolve it you know we have spinning disks we have all flash we have nvme we've got hybrid so whatever the customers performance needs are we're there with them and if as we look at it this is about simplifying and collapsing the infrastructure that's what converged infrastructure did we went out partnered with some leading companies in the storage space at the time and said how do we make this easier for customers consume we reel it into the data center they turn it on they move their workloads to it well now we've seen this cost model in in technology shift towards hyper-converged where it's x86 servers running the storage and the compute together and you wheel it in you move your workloads to it and you grow it in very nice easy to consume increments and it just it just works and that's coupled with our management plan and and I can never overemphasize that when you look at how we manage hyperflex how it plugs into our new inter-site product which is a cloud offering to let you manage the the infrastructure anywhere inter-site will help you deploy the hyper-converged infrastructure so we continue to focus on making this easy to consume well so now that leads me to your tagline the anywhere data center which which I want to ask you about the edge IOT I know it's not your area of expertise but I love what what the dev net group has done with infrastructure is code I see all these CC II's gettin retrained and and coming up with really some amazing use cases I mean I saw one at Cisco live in Barcelona you know basically an edge case in a police vehicle with some with some cisco HCI infrastructure it was unreal and just collecting data at the edge which is critical but so what's your strategy with the edge what do you see as the opportunity there so we've got you the hard part is always defining the edge is the edge the branch is it my home office is it a telephone pole but well where the answer is yes yes and yes right absolutely so at some of the edge we've got the Cisco hyper flex edge device which is a two node hyper flex cluster we've got small servers that fit into our routers for collecting edge data there so really the idea is meet the data where it is and to the degree that we can let's help process it there because you can't always bring all the data back yeah and what I like about Cisco strategies to sort of set the context there's many infrastructure providers I would observe are trying to take a top-down approach to say okay we've got this box we're gonna go put it on the edge and you guys do that too but what I really like about of your approach is that your box is programmable so I can develop applications at the edge I can do that with a cloud provider if I want to I can do that directly using you know Cisco api's and so I think that gives you guys an advantage and obviously your networking estate you know helps as well Alan great to have you back in the cube thanks so much and give you the last word on v-mon 2019 you know it's a great show we love being here beam is a fantastic partner we're doing some really innovative things and you know it's just it's wonderful to be here I'm almost speechless yeah so the cube is here all day today we got keynotes now coming up so we're going to come back after those keynotes of course Veeam has its big customer party tonight the bean parties are renowned always a lot of fun always great food and then always some kind of interesting twist so Alan thanks again for coming on the cube great to see you pleasure I keep it right there buddy we'll be back right after this short break I'm Dave Volante you're watching the cube from v-mon 2019

(upbeat music) >> Live from Miami Beach, Florida. It's the CUBE. Covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Hi everybody, welcome back to Miami. This is the CUBE the leader in Live tech coverage. We go out to the events and we extract the signal from the noise. We're here at VeeamON day one, 2019 at the Fountain Blue hotel in Miami. Danny Allen is here. He's the vice president of product strategy at Veeam, welcome. >> Thank you, I always love being here with you. >> Good to see you. >> Fresh off the Keynote we we're joking that you're up against South Beach and you had packed out room none the less. People we're into it. It was like the KoolAid injection of, the firehose of feature announcements. Eight demo's in about an hour, hour and a half. So congratulations for getting that done. >> Thank you. >> Feels like a weight off your shoulders I'm sure, you've been working on that for a long long time as have your engineers. Okay, well let's get into it. Where do you want to start? Veeam? Product strategy? I mean it's an exciting time for you guys. You know, dial back several years ago there were a lot of nice incremental improvements. But there's a lot of like, really see changing things that are going on. Your take? >> So I would argue the last ten years is all about modernizing the data center. Even though, people have been talking about clouds significantly, over the last ten years. The adoption hasn't really been there. So now were at this inflection point where all these organizations are saying okay, now I really have to do something about cloud. The fight for dominance in the cloud management era is only really beginning now. And will unfold over the next few years. >> That's some interesting competitive dynamics going on. There's a lot of money (clears throat) pouring into the space. Why do you think Veeam is in such a good position to be as, what Ratmir called the dominant player in cloud data management? >> So, two things really. So we have this maniacal focus on make it simple, make it realiable, make it flexible. But one of the other things, that I think that really drives this, is-- so those are differentiators. Simplicity, reliability, flexibility. But we have an unfair advantage. In that we have 350,000 customers that are giving us guidance on how to make it simple, how to make it reliable, how to be flexible. >> You know one of the other things-- you've been at this like I said since seven A.M this morning >> (giggles) >> We're at the Analyst and the media briefing. You just did the Keynote. You talked about the five stages the Veeam availability platform. And it was refreshing, to actually hear a company who's traditionally a back-up software company. Say, start with backup. Right? >> Yes. >> Everybody is sort of running away from the term. And you're saying start there. Backup cloud mobility, visibility, orchestration, automation. So you sort of laid out this journey, but the core of it, is back-up. Because that's kind of what you guys are all about, right? >> That's how you get your data. Everyone wants to talk about artificial intelligence, in power points. And machine learning, more real of course. And I want to talk about where we're goin', but we're not there today. I mean, we have customers that struggle with back-up. And they struggle with back-up in their data center and in the cloud. So, I always highlight to customers, yes, we want to go there. And we'll help you get there. But start with back-up, because that's about aggregating you data into one place. >> So, you're talkin' about the customers being just sort of starting really, their to really dig into the cloud. I mean obviously, I don't know what the stat is it's lke 20% of work loads are in the cloud. 80% to go, depending on who's data that you're looking at. And, typically you would think the vendor community leads-- >> Mhm. >> The user adoption. Okay, that makes sense. But so what are the specific things now that we're I guess, let's see, 2006 it all started. >> Yes. >> 2010, we started really paying attention to it. So, now that we're a decade and change in, what are the learnings on how was that affecting your product strategy? >> So, one of things, the initial thought, 2010 to 2015 maybe, people thought well I'll just pick up my data center and move it over here and drop it in the cloud. What they quickly learned is, I always say the cloud is not a charity, right? They layer in margin, and so just picking up infrastructure and moving it somewhere else doesn't necessarily leverage the cloud for what it's good at. And so, I don't -- Sometimes what we actually see is reprioritization, like the data goes back on premises after it moves to the cloud. But we are beginning to see, cloud native applications that are designed for cloud. And that's where I think it's really interesting. Looking at Kubernetes looking at functions as a service. That is where I think the cloud, is really going to find it's legs over the next few years. >> Yeah, you talked about that in your Keynote That you're going to need backup for things like Lambda and functions in the service. You're going to need back up for containers. And that's a whole new world. It's not just back-up, as we were talkin' earlier, about data assurance. Spitting down containers, spitting them up. Making it harder for the bad guys to sort of figure out where the vulnerabilities are. So, that's clearly part of the I don't want to say road map 'cause Ratmir said well we don't really have these strict roadmaps. >> Yes. >> But part of the vision. >> Yes, absolute part of the vision and strategies. So what we do is, we keep our finger in the pulse of what is happening. Like I say, we have an unfair advantage. 350,000 customers. How many of them are actually moving to the cloud? What are they moving to the cloud? Are they building in the cloud? So, having that visibility into how this cloud adoption is taking place, is giving us an advantage that frankly other companies don't have. So, we invest in understanding that and then being ready when the scale actually tips. >> Mhm. >> So, one of the things that I find particularly interesting, is that back-up, and restore, we've said it a couple times today has historically been a bolt on. Something, that you do as an afterthought. Something you do once a system's been built. But it's this transformation, this move to digital business, puts data at the center of a companies strategy and value proposition. It means that now, this whole notion, this whole-- what back-up does, and why it's now important, is because it comes, it becomes for the first time, central to what a companies strategic business capabilities are. How is that shifting, as a product guy? How is is that shifting, how you balance and how you get information about features and functions, and no road maps, but what you do next? >> We always look at how we can enable that next generation of activities. So, you made and interesting comment there. You said people always bolt on back-up after the fact. And I look back, I come out of the security industry. People will bolt security on, after they've built the system. We only really became better as an industry, when we built security into the applications, rather than-- >> Something we're still learning to do. >> Yes. And we're only now so people are still bolting on back-up I would argue that we're now going through this phase of building data management into our platforms. Building data management in is more than just back-up it's an insuring that all of the data you have the visibility across it, that you can unlock it, that you can distribute it. Because if we're only looking at data in a reactive way we're missing the greater opportunity to make our businesses run faster. >> Yeah well, faster and better, we're diminishing the value of the options that we have on how we use our data. >> Yes. >> And that's not what you want to do in digital business setting. We talk about assurance. >> Mhm. >> Data assurance, so data protection is one thing. But that seems kind of like what's already happened. Whereas, data assurances, ensure that your data is in the right place, at the right time, with the right set of services and the right set of meta data, so that you can spin up that Kubernetes cluster if that's where you need it. >> Yes. >> How does that notion, that kind of forward reaching, turning data into asset, generating new strategic value streams out of your data, from a platform like Veeam, how does that comport with this notion of assurance? >> Good question, and-- a challenge that we have frankly as Veeam, is that our typical buyer has been the back-up data center assurance buyer. And as you begin to look at how do we expand beyond this to unlock data and build systems in all of sudden there's new constituent in play. It's not the IT administrator anymore. It's the compliance team, it's the security team. It's whatever team happens to be involved. So, we operate this in a few different ways. One is certainly at a marketing level. Just the messaging around Ransome, where the messaging around compliance, and GDPR, the messaging around how you can do more with data. But frankly one of the big things that we do is events like this. We have CIO's and administrator's of IT I was speaking with CIO last night, he started out as an administrator of Veeam, sorry VMware ten years ago, and now he's a CIO. And so, these events are what enable us to get the message out, about what Veeam is actually capable of. >> That's not an uncommon profile by the way. >> (giggles) Yes. >> One more question if I may, that you got a strong security background and now your in data protection. Those two, groups, are looking at many of the same problems. >> Mhm. >> And if you think about where the security guys are going, they're increasingly looking at what they can do with data from a services standpoint that goes beyond security. And you look at what data protection is doing, you're looking at how you can start to add more data security attributes to the platform that you have. Where does this-- where does security and data protection intersect? And come together? And when do you think? >> Well, frankly, I believe that Veeam is at the intersection of that now. >> Okay. >> And to take it one step further, I think it's not only data protection, data security but also data privacy. So the advent of GDPR and regulatory around users ownership of data. And I think it's going to get worse, before it gets better. I'll be honest on that because we have this patchwork of regulations with no central model and if I was a CIO I would be pulling my hair out. But I believe that Veeam is well positioned because we're at the intersection and we can see all of this data. That's why visibility is the center stage in that five stage journey. Because you move from being reactive to being proactive with the data. And proactive in terms in of security, and proactive in terms of data privacy. >> You know it's like a three sides coin, if that's even such a thing. >> (giggles) >> We've talked about security, has shifted from one of pure defensive to responsive. How do I respond? How quickly can I respond? You know, data protection has always been about recovery. >> Mhm. >> I think two of you're firehose, demo's today were about fast recovery. From backups and >> Yes. >> And then recovery to (mumbles). And I feel like I kind of agree. It could get worse, before it gets better. When you think about privacy, it sort of reminds me of the early days of the federal rules of civil procedure and you're trying to plug holes with email archiving. And it was just a band aid. >> Mhm. >> You mention GDPR, a couple of times. How have you seen, GDPR sort of affect the way in which people think about data protection and data management? Has it been a real up-tick? In awareness? Is it still, sort of like the email archiving, plugging the finger in the dike, what's your take? >> Well, I just wrote an article on this actually because May 25th is the one year anniversary of the implementation of GDPR. But its done a few different things. One is, its raised user awareness and organizational awareness of the issue of data privacy as opposed to security. That the users have some ownership over their data. So if nothing else, its just raised awareness for the users and the organizations. The second thing though, that its done, its actually put, there's legal teeth to this. There's been hefty fines associated with it. And I think those are only going to increase. The market is only really getting started. We're going to see how it plays out over the next five years. But I expect to see more GDPR compliance issues and more fines associated with it. But ultimately it's better for the end user because they get the ownership that frankly they deserve with their data. >> So this right to be forgotten, is sort of central to GDPR. So, how can the backup corpus, you know be a linch pin of the right to be forgotten. Or, potentially the smoking gun if it's not found. >> (giggles) >> Thoughts on that. >> So, we've introduced specific capabilities for this. So, around GDPR, we have simple things. When I say simple things, complex. But we've made it simple for customers to tag data. Does this belong in this country, versus this country, this country. Because actually when you recover forget about whether it's privacy data, are you even allowed to do that. But secondly, we introduced a step and update for this was back in January that when you recover data you can actually say, I want to run this script to eliminate that user's data from being recovered. Because if they exercise the right to be forgotten, after the database is in archive, and then you recover it, their data is back all of a sudden. So we introduce, a sandbox environment. Where you could run all of the same GDPR right to be forgotten scripts, so when it's recovered that's eliminated. And our focus has always been make those types of processes really simple for our end customers. >> So I got excited this morning when you were talking about the fast recovery from back-up. >> Mhm. >> And you talked about replication and where that fits. But being able to have the architecture and the meta data access, to be able to do a fast recovery from back-up is pretty profound. >> Yes. >> It seems like your architecture is designed in a way that it's not a do-over. As a product guy that's probably quite helpful. But I wonder if you could just describe sort of the-- the tenants of the architecture. Just in terms of what it means for Veeams future, future proofing, however, you know buzzword we want to throw at it. But there's an architectural component that was my takeaway from this mornings conversation, that's fundamental. >> Yeah, one of the fundamental components is our data is self-describing. If you have WinZip and I have 7-Zip I can send you a file, and you can open it. And we did that with different programs entirely. So when we do a backup, there's no dependency on a central server, or central management environment. And that's really important when you move things from the cloud, to on premises to another cloud, to different environments because otherwise they all need to talk to one another. In order to understand , what the data is that they receive. Another problem with that model, is that if that central management environment goes down you've lost everything. With a self-describing format, what it means is even if the Veeam Software blows up and goes away if I have that VBK file, I can recover all of the data in it. And that is very unique to us. Because if you do your data protection in the cloud, you just need to move the data on premises and I can open it on premises with a completely different software stack if you will. If you acquire a new company I can open their back-ups even assuming I have the keys, and permissions and security and all of that. Even though it was managed or backed up with completely different management stack. >> So, your saying if a competitor loses their catalog. >> Yes. >> They're screwed. >> Yes. >> And that's not the case with you guys. >> We actually had this happen just recently in a (mumbles). Customer had both a competitor and our software. And they were hit with Ransomware. The Ransomware hit the meta data catalog and they lost everything in the competitors software. Now, because they were following the 3-2-1 rule and they had one data offsite with Veeam, they were able to recover 100% of the Veeam back-ups, and 0% of the competitors back-ups. >> Well, that's story. >> (giggles) >> Yeah but-- >> Case study in the making. >> But that is actually, it's fundamental to the model. And it's not only fundamental for block storage back-ups but also the way we introduce object storage, and cloud object storage models as well. That it's completely self describing even if your Veeam software goes away and your ten years down the road. You can still get that data back. >> Okay. We got to give you the final word here. Day one, we're wrapping up day one with Danny Allen. Head of Product Strategy at Veeam. Your Keynote, the Analyst Feedback, Customer Feedback, summarize it all into a bumper sticker. You know, take as much time as you like. >> (laughter) Well, this is an exciting year for us. So we've, we have a really strong focus on cloud. You probably see that all over. Cloud data management we're talking about over and over again. >> It's on the wall. >> It's on the wall. It's on the pins that we wear. It's everywhere. So cloud data management, and another thing that you, I don't know whether people have noticed but we've put the focus back on our buyer. Who is the technical decision maker. So rather than talking about the environment ten years from now, and artificial intelligence, and machine learning. While we get excited about those things, we've brought it back to our core buyer. Because the budget today is for back-up. The budget is not for artificial intelligence. There is a budget for back-up. So we've done two things. Focus on cloud, and focus on that technical decision maker and it seems to be resonating. Customers all day long, great, great conversations. >> Well, it's pragmatic. You guys are pragmatic company, always have been. Danny Allen, thanks so much for coming on the CUBE. It was great to see you. >> Thank you very much . >> All right and thank you. That's a wrap for day one. Peter Buress and I will be back tomorrow again wall to wall coverage. This is the CUBE, and we're here at VeeamON 2019, in Miami. We'll see you tomorrow. (electronic music)

>> Live, from Miami Beach, Florida it's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami everybody, sunny Miami. Dave Vellante here with Peter Burris. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. We go out to the events, we extract the signal from the noise, and there's a lot of noise here, and there's a lot of signal here. VeeamON 2019, this is theCUBE's third year doing Veeam's big customer show. We started doing NOLA, last year was Chicago, a very hip location here at the Fountainebleau Hotel. Carey Stanton is here. He is the Vice President of business development and corporate dev, corp-dev at Veeam and Jeff Kalat, a CUBE alum, >> Yep, you bet. >> long-time friend of theCUBE, senior director of strategic alliances at Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. Gentlemen, welcome to theCUBE, good to see you. >> Thanks for having us. >> You're very welcome. Carey let me start with you. Uh, I really want to talk about sports with you, but anyway, we won't. We'll hold that off. (laughter) >> (Carey) One day. >> Momentum. You're relatively new to Veeam. But you've been here now a couple years. Where's this momentum coming from, from your perspective, as a recent Veeam entrant. >> Yeah, no, the momentum's coming from across the board, but I think a big momentum is coming from new product innovation that we're doing with Office 365, and we're just driving up subscription business momentum that we have for the pent-up demand that we had for Euphor. But a big part is coming from our relationships like we have with HPE. We invested heavily a few years ago when we announced that joint reseller agreement. What we've done is not just continued to sell but add a plethora of new solutions to it Jeff's going to talk about what we're doing with GreenLake adding SimpliVity, adding the overall solutions that we have. But that's a team that started two years ago with two people that we now have over 20 people just working, dedicated with HPE on co-selling. And I'm happy to say that our business in first half, or I should say year-to-date is up 50% year over year on a global reseller business. >> Well Jeff, theCUBE as you know, has been documenting the ebbs and flows of HP and HPE over the last, better part of a decade. And when HP split in two, to HPE and HP Inc. One of the things that-- And then sold the software business, or a large portion of it. One of the things that went was data protection. >> (Jeff) You got it. >> (Dave) And that just opened up a whole new set of opportunities and Veeam was obviously one of those. And it's starting to pay dividends. >> You got it, yeah, to that point, that evolution through HPE.nex, we were able to focus on our core. And the benefit, the inherit benefit is that we can partner with the best of class in the marketplace. And Veeam is considered best of class. So when it comes to data availability, data protection, we're all in. And we're actually, as a company, we're actually doubling down now in our partnership with Veeam. We've actually taken them from, maybe a traditional storage alliance, and taken them to be one of our top global strategic alliances in the line of the Microsoft's, the Veeam, or as the SAP's. Because we see great momentum, we see great customer adoption and interest and we see great innovation at the product level, but also in the whole global market chain. >> Well talk a little more about that because it was, the move allowed you to form new partnerships that dramatically expanded your TAM but, I'm interested in the nature of the partnership. Is it, just go to market, is there engineering integration? Talk about that a little bit. >> Our first step when we came together and said okay let's take this to the next level, we realized we need to narrow our focus to the core customer values and we really settled on three core areas of this relationship. One is first, data protection for, around our intelligence storage, as you know, our storage portfolio 3 Par, Nimble, we've had a great relationship there, we continue to drive co-innovation at the road map level, but also drive go-to-market activities and marketing and we have feet on the street actively selling. So the first one's really expanding our work with storage. Now we're taking it, we're extending, if you will, through consumption based data management, using, well HPE has GreenLake, Greenlake we see 40% of customers by 2020 are going to be consuming their data center IT more in a consumption model. There are inherent benefits of that. What we now have offered and launched just recently Backup,is a service through our flex capacity coming out of GreenLake, providing customers the choice, if you will, to move from a, not from a capital expenditure, but, by the drink, if you will, consumption base. So that's the second core area. And the third core area is new for us, and that's around our HCI portfolio. As you know, we purchased SimpliVity. Well, SimpliVity has a lot of inherent backup, dedupe compression in line, but there actually are some Zivik use cases that we're deploying out there that show how Simplivity in a Veeam environment can actually, customers can see actually incremental values. So, those are the three key areas we're focused on as we up-level this whole relationship and partnership. >> (Dave) So Carey, please. >> I was just going to say if you think of, we talk a lot about we go after the technical decision maker in all these, hundreds of people here at the conference. And then going towards the executive, the enterprise. And it's through relationships with HPE on this, the flex capacity, being able to go to a customer and offer a true enterprise solution that they're looking for, everyone wants as a service. And so we've closed multiple deals this year thanks to having the Greenlake. So, our relationship with HPE continues to elevate and the enterprise is a result of the solutions that we're doing. Not just selling storage, but selling a complete solution. >> Rathmeyer was kind of tongue-in-cheek this morning at the analyst and media event. He was talking about how in 2013 he predicted that Veeam would be a billion dollar company by 2018. And he said he missed it by six months. One of the reasons was because you know, you got the subscription model. So that's, you know GreenLake obviously is part of that, maybe not the predominant part yet but I think you said you have 40% you're saying will consume, as a service by 2020. >> 2020, actually soon. >> (Dave) Okay so pretty substantial. >> Yeah. >> What's driving that? Is it just CFO's want to go to opex? Or is it-- >> I think it's a, there are many, the value you get without locking yourself into every three years needing to do a total forklift upgrade of your infrastructure, that's one thing. The second thing is moving it from a capital expenditure to an opex expediture. It can be planned, it can be budgeted as well. The third thing is the customer doesn't have to mess with all the technology, updating the firmware, the drivers and all that. We will do it on their behalf, right? We give them the economics of cloud on prem and that's the beauty of that. So we believe, and lock-step in alignment with Veeam, the world is hybrid in the future. So on prem is here to live forever, but increasingly we need to leverage the assets in the cloud and this is providing the ability of doing it in a consumption model. >> And it's not just the economics it's the experience as well. >> Oh totally, if you want to, if you live in a house and you're a home owner, and you want a new bathroom, you put in a bathroom. If you're a renter you end up in a long, laborious negotiation that you're going to lose. And the same kind of notion is here as people realize there's greater strategic opportunities and options from how to use their data differently. They want access to those options. And that's the basis of agility. The opex to capex is good but you've got to put it in business context. It's how you create additional options in your data oriented investments. So, as you guys are moving forward are you starting to have that conversation with customers? And relating data, data value, asset management, Backup, Restore, to this broader picture, this broader strategic union you're putting together? >> Yeah and that is a key imperative of how we get even stronger in traction is telling the bigger picture. And you look at the world of yesterday, where it's just backup and recovery, look at the advent of edge devices and the amount of data that's being put at the edge. Now look at AI and machine learning where, the data is inherently needed to project the changes and the needs that are in the future. So, I think these all tie in to the play and I believe at GreenLake our consumption model can provide great benefits, above and beyond the traditional backup and recovery. >> And I was just going to add to it, is that it also brings in our ecosystems, so the relationship, that tier one relationship we both have within Microsoft. So when you start looking at a solution that the business owner wants, they want to be able to say I need cloud, I need on prem, I need backup recovery, and so by going through GreenLake they can encompass, we have a broader ecosystem that we're able to bring in versus just single thread in these discussions where you're going in and selling a data protection story and leaving but you didn't solve that broader customer problem, and with GreenLake, they are solving that overall problem. >> Yeah, I'd just like to say nothing really happens until you make a sale. You talked about some of the growth earlier. But why Veeam? Obviously you're getting some traction in the market but there's a lot of players out there that you could partner with. And you do partner with others. But why Veeam? What makes Veeam so special? >> I think one, inherently we are lock-step in agreement of the over-arching strategy, we talked about hybrid, we talked about portfolio. Two is we've got the engagement at all levels of our organization, which all stems truly from having a unified roadmap. Innovation has to happen at the roadmap level and you need to be lock-step aligned through the value chain in the way you take it to market, the way you align your sellers, the way you deliver a value proposition that truly is valuable to our customers. It's proven from our IDC research that customers who are deploying and purchasing HPE and Veeam solutions are seeing a 250 plus percent ROI on that investment. So there's this huge customer benefit, and why not go bigger and go bigger and go bigger with them. >> (Dave) Same question to you Carey. So why HPEE, why is HPEE so special as a partner? >> I think HPE first and foremost, being that first partner that came to us to want to go all in, as Jeff was talking about, from day one, and top down. So we're not just working with a department of HPE we have it from Antonio, from Jim Jackson down the stack in the organization. We were aligned from day one. They lead with data protection, it's no longer, it's a a nice to have, it's a requirement in every one of their sales processes. We're their lead partner that they have in data protection. And what we'd been able to do and have that enterprise visibility by them assisting us on our journey. So, from across the board, whether it's through management, through technology, or just in true go-to-market, they're by far our number one partner that we have on our sell-with motion. >> So Jeff, I want to talk to the group about GreenLake. And Carey, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it as well. What are the challenges that go into a consumption-based model for a company that's traditionally sold products. As part of this overall move in all industries, all sectors, from a product to a services orientation. How do introduce metrics that are associated with the service? Because it used to be you just sold a product. And the metrics for storage are different from the metrics from backup, different from the metrics from compute. So as you've gone to GreenLake, because I love GreenLake, what kind of specialized, or specific types of things, how are you selling it to try to tie that service into the business outcomes that your customers are trying to see? >> Well clearly, I believe, some of our first wins, early wins we were able to monitor and metric the value the customers were getting, the service levels they've received and so we have a number of different methods of capturing the data, the empirical data, on the service levels and being able to use that to then, use that in the selling motion to be able to articulate the experience and the expectations that come with that. >> What are some of the harder problems that your customers are asking you to solve? And how are you approaching it together? >> Well I think that what we're talking about with GreenLake here is a real hard problem to solve, right? Consumpton based across geographic regions, across different technologies, on prem, off prem, hybrid. And we don't have another partner that we can go to market with when we hear this from the customer. So when we hear it, we know that we can lean in. And we truly are, to follow up from your question, is the fact is that HPEE is solving all this and then bringing us in as their number one partner, is the differentiator that we love. So solving those problems at an enterprise level, and at a commercial level and doing it with one partner is easy, right? We're shortening the sales cycle, increasing the value to the customer. >> Yeah, one thing I have to say and it's always, complexity is always a problem and an issue, right? So it will always be a problem and an issue and we will always be striving to improve and improve the complexity. But you know, Veeam, we're super simple, right? And we, especially when you look in our HCI portfolio and that's all about driving simplicity, if you will, in a way you can deploy IT, you can scale it. So I think complexity is, and will always be a problem. But it's a given too and it will always be there. And we will always be striving to make it even easier and easier for our joint customers. >> Well one of the challenges that you face, especially as you go to a sevices-only model, is how do you put a price on the outcomes that you're delivering as opposed to the price on the assets that the person is taking? So I think one of the biggest challenges, and it sounds like you guys are pretty close to getting this together, but it's part of a broader portfolio, is where does this, let's put it slightly differently. We've talked about this before in some of the other interviews. backup is moved from a have to have it, for maybe compliance or it just makes good sense to have it, to a strategic business capability for a company that's increasingly differentiating itself on it's data assets. That moves this conversation about, as a service, into a different group and a different, different level. And that's what I'm wondering. Those metrics have got to be a big part of the conversation. Because the entire organization is now recognizing backup is more than just a bolt-on. >> Yeah. One example, one of our close partners, we're here with them, Island. So, disaster recovery as a service, right? They standardize on Nimble and Veeam and together, that combination to them was good enough to build their business on. So there's inherent value and we expect to continue to grow and be able to expose that value. 'Cause we believe more and more customers, not just your pure enterprises but, from your mid-market all the way up, can be able to utilize and see that value and experience it. >> Just a point of clarification if I could on the HCI piece. Specifically around SimpliVity. So SimpliVity was known for it's backup use cases. >> (Jeff) Sure. Still is. >> So where does Veeam and SimpliVity fit, versus Simplivity solo. >> Yeah, yeah. Well first and foremost yes, Simplivity has inherent, great data availability features, inherent in it. That's core to it. But in reality, for customers, let's say a mixed environment, whether it be virtualized, non-vitrualized, there are inherent benefits to having Veeam in addition to SimpliVity. Another example would be customers who want to really have the access to be able to do specific file restores. So we see capabilities in running Veeam in parallel with SimpliVity. Actually I see a lot of customers that are deploying SimpliVity are also deploying Veeam and there, it's an additive value that they're seeing. And they're able to parse out features and functionality and be able to increase their level of value that couldn't be done, just purely from a Simplivity standpoint alone. >> All right Carey, we'll give you the final word. >> The final word is-- >> Bumper sticker on VeeamON. >> (laughing) >> Bumper stickers. >> I would say that, what we're doing here with HPEE, we would say we're in the first inning. What we're seeing on the innovations that we have coming out later this year with HPEE, coming into next year, and we're just thrilled to be having them a platinum sponsor of VeeamON and look forward to another successful year. >> Awesome. Guys thanks so much for coming on. I got to ask you, Boston-based person, Bruins fan? >> (Carey) Bruins, yes. >> You worried about Tuulka, at all, a 12 day layoff? >> (Carey) Nope. >> No problem. >> (Carey) Nope, Chara's going to be nice and rested and-- >> (Dave) Chara, more Chara or less Chara? >> I'm going to, yes well. I got to take more thanks. >> Okay, all right, good. We'll see, we'll see. Go Bruins. All right guys thanks so much for coming out and thank you for watching. Keep it right there we'll be back with our next guest shortly right after this break. You're watching theCUBE from VeeamON, 2019 from Miami. Be right back.

>> Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's theCUBE covering VeeamON 2019 brought to you by Veeam! >> Welcome back to Miami, everybody. This is theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage. My name is Dave Vellante. We're here at the Fontainebleau Hotel. VeeamON day one of two-day coverage of the Veeam conference, very swaggy hotel. Dave Russell is here. He's the Vice President of NFI Strategy at Veeam. David, good to see you again. >> Good to see you. >> Thanks so much for coming onto theCUBE. >> Yeah, thanks for having me again. >> You're very welcome. So let's see, you're well over, let's see, a year out, just about a year out of Gartner. Right? >> Yeah, yeah. >> And so okay you've been injected with the Kool-Aid fully, I presume, right? >> There you go, in the green, yes. >> But we're still going to talk a little bit about the magic water, but before we get into that, talk about your first year here. >> Yeah. >> Your impressions. Do they meet, exceed your expectations? >> It exceeded my expectations, but I can honestly say I'm not doing what I thought I was going to be doing here, but it actually turned out to be better. The other thing I will honestly tell you is I'm now on Pacific Coast time at the moment. Arizona, we're too unsophisticated for Daylights Saving, right so I'm either Mountain or Pacific but I'm Pacific now. But by 10 a.m. my time, I pretty much what I thought I was going to do that day is out the window and I'm doing something else and it's fun though. I mean now especially with the investment that we had earlier in the year and the cash reserves we ended last year with, looking at a lot of partnership capabilities, looking at ecosystem activities, certainly involved with customer activity. We're redoing our marketing and how we're focusing our go-to-market so it's a whole variety of things that sort of change hourly. >> So on the, I think we just talked about the M&A side. You've always been a dot connector in your, right? Because you talk to all the vendors, you talk to all the customers and you could see the picture. You have a huge observation space so part of your job on strategy is to try to what? Figure out where the gaps are. >> Yeah. >> And then drive strategy around do we build, do we buy? Maybe you can talk about that a little bit. >> Yeah and it really does net down to what you said. It's a build/buy decision. It's an acceleration to market kind of decision and then the hard part is what are you willing to trade off and of course the real answer is as little as humanly possible. But you have to decide, just because you can do it, just 'cause you have the money doesn't necessarily mean you should pull the trigger. So if anything, it's curious because people like myself and a couple of my colleagues, we almost are more discerning. So we look at, okay, the technology, is it really viable? Do our due diligence, right? But then we also look at well, does this fit culturally? Is the integration point really there? Is the customer value really going to be significantly improved and if you cannot answer that very favorably, then keep the money. >> So you worked at IBM for a number of years, you worked at Gartner for a number of years. Now you're back working for a vendor. >> Yeah. >> Compare and contrast those roles. I mean Gartner, you do a lot of writing, you do a lot of traveling, you talk to a zillion people. I'm sure you talk to a lot of people here too, but you're coming at it from a very biased perspective whereas Gartner of course you're unbiased. You're serving the end customer. So talk about the difference in those two roles. >> So I approach it a little uniquely in that I'm biased. I mean I'm paid by a vendor, right? And so there's a certain inherent bias in there, but I go into a customer conversation and say "Maybe you shouldn't be using Veeam for certain things." So I'll give you an example. We have Unix capabilities with Solaris AIX. There are other vendors that do that even better than we do. They have rich application integration. If someone says that's my number one problem, honestly we're not your best choice. Now the reality is most of the world is moving towards more physical and virtual Windows and Linux. So I'll come in, say, a large enterprise and I'll say, "Okay, if you're like most shops," and I'll always undersell it. "Like probably 85% of your workload "is physical virtual Windows Linux." and they always interrupt me and go, "No, no, no, it's 92%." Like, "Okay, well we can help with that 92%." >> Yeah, yeah. >> The other 7%, I'm honestly going to tell you, we're not best of breed. >> Yeah that's a safe balance view that the AIX Solaris piece. >> Series. (Dave laughs) There's certain things. >> Yeah. >> We want to stick to our swim lane. We think it's a pretty wide lane, but there's no reason to come out of it. >> So your role as strategy, talk a little bit about how you're turning that strategy into action and specifics at Veeam. >> Yeah a big part of it has to do with cloud. >> I know that's the word that we've been talking about for a long, long time. So there's the aspirational aspect of Cloud and the operational. The aspirational is I want to be able to move in and out. I want mobility, I want the ability to exit. The operational is I want to be able to do this efficiently, meaning I want to be able to either send data to the cloud, my on-prem backup or I want to be able to protect SAAS-based workloads or infrastructure as a service workload so cloud-native workloads and then over time, I might want to be able to leverage that for something other than availability. So how can you rapidly make the data and only the portion of data that I need available to me when I need it? >> I was taking some notes during the key notes and I was just doing like a little, not really a tag cloud, but I was trying to identify as I heard them and grabbed them, the attributes of cloud data protection. I want to throw some out to you. You tell me. We'll play kind of word association, I guess. So I have fast recovery, API-based, open, simple, transparent, data-oriented, automated, cloud pricing, federated to accomodate the edge. Are these some of the attributes that we should associate with cloud data protection, maybe some of the things that I'm missing. How do you look at the attributes of a company and its products providing cloud data protection? >> Yeah so a big part of it, I actually like the phrase hybrid cloud even better than people say multi-cloud. The reason I like that is because hybrid presumes that you can have on premises as well. So like if it was the Dave and Dave company tomorrow, we'd probably be born in the cloud. Everything would be software as a service. We'd get some public cloud space. Now if we'd been in business for 20 years, we've got investments that we've made and we don't want to get rid of that any sooner than we have to. So hybrid cloud I like, but I think you nailed it in that what do every one of those attributes have in common? It's trying to get your most precious resource to you in a way that you want to consume it with as least amount of friction as possible. We want to reduce the aggravation associated with being able to access that rapidly. >> When you think about the customer conversations that you've had at Veeam and even going back to your Gartner days, I've always felt this notion of not hybrid, I see hybrid and multi-cloud as different. I've always looked at multi-cloud as multi-vendor. >> Yeah. >> Yeah I've got line of business, I've got shadow IT, I've got different IT projects and I've got multiple clouds and it's just, to me it was always less of a strategy than sort of this is where we are and now people need to put together a hybrid strategy. So IT's been asked to come clean up this mess as it always is. What's your take on the hybrid landscape and how we got here but more specifically, customer strategies when you consult with your customers? >> Yeah you're right that there's a lot of departmental buying, there's a lot of, in some cases, it's best of breed so I'm very willing to go look at multiple providers because I didn't sign up to go deploy the third best solution. Everyone wants what they think will be the most appropriate tool for them and rightfully so. So I think that's how we got, to your point, we didn't have a strategy that said I want 10 vendors. We arrived at an implementation choice that resulted in 10 vendors being deployed and then to your point further, then we had to layer on something on top of that. That's really where we come in and simple as it sounds, we really want to promote choice, choice of infrastructure, choice of cloud, choice of hypervisor, choice of operating system. >> So great discussion vector is the best of breed versus sort of integration. >> Yeah. >> And my question is that's been a decades-long. >> Yeah. >> Sort of trade-off that people have made. You see it in the software business, the hardware business and all through the industry. Is the API economy changing that. Can you be both, I mean Veeam, let's agree. Veeam is a best-of-breed provider. While your portfolio's growing, you're a billion-dollar company, you take a company like Dell who's got this ridiculously large portfolio. They can come into a customer and say well even with services or at IBM, we can wrap the big blue blanket around you and integrate everything. With the API economy, does that change the game on that argument of best of breed versus integration and convenience? >> It's a nuanced answer. The answer is a little yes and a little no. >> It depends, right? >> Let me decompose that because that's a cop-out, but the "it depends" aspect is really, APIs are wonderful to create an ecosystem and other integration points. If that's about offering your expandability to do something, that's a positive. If that really means that well because I can't deliver what you need, you got to go and write it yourself, that is a negative. So if the API is leveraging something for even greater value but beyond what the tools are originally designed to do, I think that's net positive, but if you have to exploit the API to just to get the product to work, why did I buy your product when I have to go hire someone to write code to work on your product? That's, you don't want that business. >> Okay so the last Gartner Magic Quadrant that came out was one that you sort of spearheaded back in 2017. It was like this perfect storm of backup analysts leaving Gartner and so there's been a little bit of delay in terms of the new one coming out which is coming our shortly as I understand it, but one of the observations that you can make if you look at the 2016-2017 Gartner Magic Quadrant is that Veeam moved from lower right to upper right which is rare. Can you explain that a little bit? You were saying that it usually goes in a different pattern. Elucidate, please. >> Yeah. Yeah so the magic in the Magic Quadrant is if you could actually jump from one quadrant to straight to leaders and that would be a very atypical progression. Usually it's a backwards Z. You come into the lower left, probably get over to the lower right, fall back, but go up to the upper left and then maybe you get to leaders in the upper right. The magic part in Veeam, the thing that they were able to do is go from visionary lower right to leader upper right. >> Okay and why do you think they were able to do that? I mean there are numerous attributes, but presumably 350,000 I think is the number of customers helped and so you've got a lot of references and proof points, the technology itself, but it's rare. Why do you think Veeam has been able to succeed in that regard? >> I think it's because Veeam has been good about getting answers to the most pressing problems. Again Veeam doesn't do everything. It doesn't support every single operating system, but the vast majority of the concentration of where customer issues are and where customer environments are getting deployed at, we can address very well and actually this weekend, I got here Friday night. So all day Saturday, all day Sunday and yesterday 'til 5 p.m. I took our SE training and so I've deployed Veeam, worked with active directories, all kinds of things for 72 hours basically and it was really that easy to use. In fact, my most difficult thing is I stayed in class until 6:30 at night because I'd never done active directory. I've never been an exchange admin before so I had to kind of come up to speed on those tools a little bit, but once I got that, the product was incredibly powerful, but also very intuitive. So you still have a little bit of that independent analyst DNA in you so I'm going to ask you to try to put that independent hat on. When you think about Veeam's traditional base of SMB, they're very successful there, obviously superglued itself to the virtualization trend. The last couple of years, Veeam has tried to move up-market, develop some relationships with some large players and has had some success there. Is the product well-suited for that larger enterprise and where do you see that going in terms of the up-market progression? >> Yeah so in theory, that's what I'm here to drive, the enterprise word is in my title, but in reality I focus more broadly than that. But if I just think about enterprise, I ran the numbers last week and company inception to date, we've actually derived over $2 billion of software-only revenue from the enterprise market and that's been accelerating. Now in 2017-18 and the first quarter of this year, almost $1 billion. So we're moving and we're moving fast. We had our sales kick off like most companies do. January, go to sales kick off and Ratmir says, "Hey don't chase just the big deals, the $2 million deals. "We've never sold a $2 million "without having a $200,000 deal first." The very next week, we got a $2 million deal on the first paper so he shot low. He should've said five million, but the interesting thing about Veeam and to answer your question, I think we resonate with the kind of challenges a large enterprise has. We allow them to move at their own scale if they want to move in a very large fashion, they can with Veeam. I would honestly tell them move as appropriate for you. As assets age, as you're willing to take on the change in an environment, do so, but I think Veeam is interesting. It's the same piece of software that I installed on my laptop this weekend that can also go to a Fortune 100 company. The same piece of software that manages 50,000 agents, we have at one shop, 50,000 Windows agents. We can do that with same code base and the only thing that's different is we just horizontally scale out how we deploy the capacity and then how we deploy the mover agents. >> I tweeted out this morning, Ratmir was standing in front of a chart with all these features and over the time and that's been part of the hallmark of Veeam is not checkbox features but real substantive features and you've had a consistent progression. Even Ratmir said, we don't have a big long-term roadmap that we share with our customers even internally. Yeah we have a direction and a vision, but very focused, almost like a bit of an Agile development methodology but the point is that, and you see that some companies are really good at this, some companies, not so good at this, but just consistently delivering features that are in-demand, that customers want, listening to their customers and just nailing it and that seems to be the hallmark of Veeam and as they say, some companies just don't have that in their DNA. Your thoughts on that? >> Yeah I think what it really comes down to is at the end of the day, every developer thinks like a customer and they do that because they spend a lot of time on our Veeam forums and I'll be honest, when I was a mainframe backup developer, I didn't talk to that many customers. I was just writing code and I didn't know how people were actually putting the product to use in production. I didn't always know what feature might be most helpful for them. >> You were guessing. >> I was trying to think of the art of the possible, hopefully an educated guess, but I was really just trying to say what might be good, what might be of resonance versus actually having someone goes on a forum and says Veeam, what I would like you to do is X. That's one of the reasons why we do have, to your point, we don't have a 10-year roadmap where we say this feature is coming in 12 months, this feature is coming in 24 months. It's fluid and in some cases, we actually moved up delivering our physical agent management by a year because we started selling more and more of those and people said I need that feature functionality faster. We're willing to trade-off some of our other feature functionality. So if we can be, as long as we can continue to respond to the market, I think we're well-positioned. >> How does a capability like that surface itself? Obviously by talking to customers, but how does it get into the development pipeline so quickly? >> Yeah well in some cases, we've got a huge amount of not just, our part of R&D. It's the research, it's experimentation, it's incubation of new things. So when we find that sweet intersection point, then we can quickly operationalize that. In other cases, we just have to be nimble. We have to react fast. >> Is it a command and control culture though where somebody says okay this is what we're doing or is it more sort of the team gets together and says oh this really makes sense based on what the customers are telling us, let's go. How does that decision get made? >> Yeah well ultimately it is a command and control in the sense that our co-founder, one of our co-founders runs sales and marketing. Our other co-founders runs R&D and they ultimately get sign-off on their respective areas, but it is collaborative in the sense of we do bring forward, here's what we see in market, here's what see in our customer forums. Here's what our ecosystem of partners are telling us, here's our view of the top five things we ought to go do. >> I was struck by the other slide that Ratmir had. It was the $15 billion slide and it was probably, backup and recover was maybe I don't know seven out of the 15 if I remember, but there were all these other segments. It was sort of analytics and disaster recovery and data management, all new pockets of opportunity. $15 billion today, obviously growing with especially the cloud. How do you see that landscape and how does that affect the way you look at strategy? >> Yeah so I actually put that bubble chart together. >> Oh, I like it. >> The rationale between the bubbles, we have core, we put backup in the middle because that's what we do but also that's how we ingest data and now we can do other things around it. So the reason for those bubbles and they were of varying sizes and the bubbles were sort of in and out of to varying degrees the main backup bubble according to how much intersection we thought as a company we could have with that. Where we thought we could add value, where we thought there was an ecosystem potential. So for example, analytics. We're not going to become the next best analytics company tomorrow, not even years from now. We could partner and we can provide data and we get better access to data to be able to do that. So we'd want to facilitate that. In other cases, maybe we really do want to go own and acquire. >> Well and so to your earlier comments there, I didn't use the term, the phrase land and expand, but that's clearly what you guys are doing starting with the $200,000 sale and growing it to a $2 million sale. So those bubbles are potentially cohort sales. >> Yes. >> That you can sell sort of like bananas in bunches I like to say, right? >> Yeah. And part of that is who do you sell that to. And so if you're able to go and address some of those ancillary bubbles or markets, now you've got a different entree point into the organization. If you're already involved with an organization, now you can offer more value because you can get more out of your data that you've already protected. So it opens up new conversations for us to have. It opens up entirely new buying centers for us too. >> Well how is the role of whom you sell to changing? I mean it was backup admin historically, right or maybe a Veeamware admin. Veeam admin. How is that changing? >> So greatest example I would tell you are events. So we acquired a company last January or a year ago January called N2W Software. So they're predominantly at Amazon re:Invent conferences. You go to Amazon re:Invent and no one's heard of Veeam and if anyone's heard of either of the two companies, it's definitely N2WS and someone's seen it in the marketplace. That demographic tends to be totally different from the demographic if you go to the on-premises data center type of conference where they have heard of Veeam and it's a very different sort of mindset. To your point, they grew up in a very different landscape. Now instead of someone who's well-steeped in server storage and networking and maybe majored in one, possibly two of those things, now you've got a generalist where he or she is probably in their 20s, has a very different point of view of what it should take to get something working and has a very different view of how they want to be sold to, how you can go and reach them. >> So at the cloud show, there might be a development persona. >> Yes. >> That you're selling to. Obviously VMWare, VMWorld, we know what that is. It's IT guys, right, is the predominant and how do you see cloud changing that? Is it cloud architects or sort of cloud leaders? CTOs increasingly? Data Protection becomes more and more important to digital business. So how are you seeing that role change due to cloud? >> So right now we have to basically have more touchpoints. Our typical legacy fan of our customer, our customer base, our product's sweet spot still remains and it's in some cases will pull us into the cloud. In other cases, we have to go talk to someone that's entirely different. But again, that's more of an administrative view. But to your point, going up the stack now, if you go to the not even Vice President of Infrastructure, you go to the CIO, he or she says, "I am tired of thinking about boxes. "I am tired of thinking about where this resides. "I want to think business outcome." So for us that's actually a great conversation because it all comes back to data. That's what we're in the business of doing. We capture, protect and move data. >> So that brings it back to strategy. We got to run, but summarize in your words, just sort of the strategy of Veeam and where you see this whole thing going. >> Yeah I will simplistically say it's more of the same. We want to continue to offer what we think is a best of breed solution for on-prem and increasingly cloud availability, but also we want to offer real customer value in terms of now being able to leverage that data, get more value out of that whether that's DevOps, running analytics against that, security test patch, whatever it may be, we want to be able to give you just the data you need, so have granularity, and offer speed and ease of use to do that. >> So as data becomes more and more important, you're seeing companies go beyond backup, trying to get more out of there, their backup, moving to data protection, data management, not just an insurance policy anymore. Dave Russell, thanks very much for coming to theCUBE. It was great to have you. >> Thank you so much. >> You're welcome. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with Peter Burris as my cohost. We're at VeeamON Live from Miami. You're watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)