>> Live from Miami Beach, Florida, it's the CUBE, covering VeeamON2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami everybody. This is Dave Vellate with Peter Burris here. Day One of VeeamOn2019, at the Fontainebleau Hotel in Miami. Rat Pack used to hang out here Which is kind of the big theme of the reception last night. Dale Hoffman is here. He's the Director of Offering Management for VMWare Solutions at IBM. Dale, thanks for coming to the group. >> Thanks, David. It's a pleasure to be here and Peter, nice to meet you. >> Okay, yeah, pleasure to meet you as well. So lets unpack the sort of notion of Offering Management that sort of people generally refer to as Product Management. IBM calls it Offering Management. So you are focused on the public cloud, but specific to the VMWare swimlane. Is that right? >> Yeah, that is correct. So, if you think about it I own the VMWare Offering Solutions on our cloud. So, that is everything associated with the whole VMWare software defined data center stack, but also a lot of our partner solutions. Many solutions in the security space. Many solutions in the business resiliency space. And that's kind of where Veeam had came in on that aspect. >> So the first public cloud deal that VMWare did, correct me if I'm wrong, was with IBM, was it not? >> Yeah, so if you just go back a little bit in time, IBM itself is probably the largest, if not the largest, provider of VMWare workloads. And mainly that's due to a lot of our GTS services business. But back in 2016, this looked like a great opportunity to actually go on the public cloud and actually stand up a software defined data center stack from VMWare. So, we started on that in that partnership with VMware and started to just basically grow that business. That business has been growing at about a 75% CAGR, and then that was kind of like step one, get the stack, and then step two was how do you get those security services in, and some of those business resiliency services in. And that's where we started to go in and do a real deep partnership with Veeam and happy to say that we started that in 2017 and we have about 12,000 plus VMs, both bare metal and also on virtualized VMWare on our cloud. Its been about 170% year to year growth rate. So Veeam's killing it on our cloud. They really are. >> And your scope is anything in the IBM cloud that's VMWare related so it could be >> That is correct. >> Data base services, it could be >> Absolutely. >> Object stores, obviously data protection with Veeam. What do you think is driving the Veeam-IBM momentum? >> Well, I think what's driving it is if you think about a lot of these, you know, critical customers, first thing they're going to want to do is take advantage of a lot of things that you get with the cloud. Whether its moving from a capex to an opex model with being able to get that capacity expansion. And there's a whole bunch of different use cases that you've got, but one of the key things to them is this whole business continuity. The ability to make sure that I can back it up, I can recover as quickly as I possibly can, and maybe more importantly, we have about 60 data centers worldwide. And being able to, essentially, have that geographic span is a huge advantage. And also the, fact that, just take backup as a simple example. When I back up I may be moving data back and forth in a particular region. I'm looking for some latency. And not to be able to be charged for that is a powerful value proposition for the customer. So, we don't charge for any type of data movement inside our cloud. And also, when you go outside, maybe for high availability, outside into the geographic reach, the same thing happens. So I think those are some very key things. That it's the security, the very fast backup and recovery, and knowing that you're not getting charged for that private secure network. It brings a real good value proposition to our customers that are leveraging Veeam and other services. >> So we think that we're now entering into a third era of cloud where the first one was basically makers, companies that created SAS companies, gaming companies, and then people moved analytics into there for a variety of reasons. Now the enterprise seems to be getting in it in a big way. Certainly at the large size. But that's starting to move down into the mid-range as well. Your advantage, IBM's advantage, has always been your ability to engage and bind with your customer base. How are you, how is IBM helping to move these customers forward, and what is the backup restore conversation in that process? Is it an afterthought? Is it something that's becoming more central to their thinking? How is it working? >> Yeah, so that's a great question, Peter. So, the way I think we in IBM cloud have thought about this is we've kind of divided the journey to cloud into two pieces. The 20% that are there, they weren't the real I'll call them business critical type of workloads that are going on, but that next 80% that's where we really see a huge advantage to us. Its out enterprise relationships. Its what we do from a security aspect on the cloud, and how easily we could help them, what we call lift and shift and migrate things over. And then once you're there, how can I help give you that assurance that we're going to give you the best backup, the best recovery in the event of a disaster, something that can, if you do see a failure, being able to have a very fast recovery point, you know, objective, and get you knowing that everything is secure and backed up and has this wide geographic spread. And even think about in the areas of compliance these days. GDPR. I mean, you have to have these data centers worldwide and sometimes they have to be you know, fixed. So, we provide that whole value proposition, I think, to those clients, in that essence. And I think the business critical, and, eventually, what we call mission critical workloads that will eventually move over, its probably the best choice to be able to have that trusted place to put workloads. >> So, the other, related to that, is you've got customers who are now moving and we're going to see them moving at varieties of speeds, but increasingly, the enterprises are going to move faster to do this than they've done in almost anything previously. And you've got Veeam, a very hard charging vendor, that has a reputation for great quality stuff, but a lot of innovation, moving very quickly. How is, how are you ensuring that there's no impedance mismatch between you, IBM, IBM customers, and Veeam and the technology vectors that it's on. >> Yeah, well first of all, its a very, very deep partnership. I mean very, very6 close relationship with them. This is not a vendor supplier relationship. This is a very, very deep partnership. And the other thing is, from a technology standpoint, one of our big differentiators on the cloud is, we actually provide that access all the way down to the hypervisor level. So, you have full freedom of action to do whatever you want to be able to do. So, from a Veeam standpoint, since its really based on a hypervisor type of technology, that gives us a real big advantage, because let's say, David, you're using Veeam on-prem. I give it the exact same look and feel as if you're off-prem, and I essentially make that data center look like an extension, like it was just in the next building and such. >> It's just another group, it's just another pool of VMs. >> Absolutely. And that whole, control and management of that gives you extreme flexibility that you really can't get in any other type of cloud. I like to say that You can come in and custom build your infrastructure, your VMWare software defined data center stack, your services such as Veeam. You custom build it any way that you want. It's like leasing a car. After you custom built that car, we hand you the keys. It's client managed. You go out and do whatever you want with that. And if you don't like it you can turn those keys back in, because we just do things not on a long term commitment, but on monthly commitments and such. >> And I want to, I want to maybe drill down on that a little bit, Dale. >> Sure. >> And try to better understand some of the flexibility that I'm inferring from your statement. So, you're a mainframer. You remember the days of SMS, and one of the things about it was that I could set policy for data protection, for backup, based upon the workload. I could say back this up once a week or back this up every day or back this up every hour or what is was. I had a granular level of capability. It was mainframe so it was, you know, big stuff. A lot of the challenges within, certainly the mid-size and smaller businesses, it's like one size fits all. This has been a, you know, a problem for everybody for years. Danny Allen, this morning, in the analyst and media session was talking about... >> This is the products guy here at VM. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talking about the ability to sort of set granular levels, the pressures of RPO and RTO. And I want to sort of test how challenging it is to do that by workload or by application, and how IBM and Veeam are supporting that. How complicated is it? Are your clients doing it or is it still kind of a one size fits all world. >> I wouldn't say its one size fits all, but what I would say is by giving the clients full control and having the freedom and flexibility to do things that they want, the tight integration of this Veeam technology into the V-Center console and such, it gives them the ability, I like to say, do it at your own pace. Do it when you want to. Even something as simple as, lets say, managing VMWare and patching it, instead of having somebody else do it for you at their pace, we essentially allow you to do it at your pace when you want to. And its the same thing with the backup. You do it when you want to, at your frequency, what regions you want to go, or your whole geographic spread. And we try to provide the maximum flexibility and control to our mutual clients to enable that. >> And on the automation scale, or you know, the 9-inning game of automation, where are we? How, how automated can I make that, but more importantly, how fast are customers adopting that sort of automation scenario. >> Yeah, so you're experience when you come into our, our cloud, and essentially you click on "I want to go to the cloud," you click on the VMWare offering, its a very simple menu. You pick your infrastructure, compu... network storage. I'll keep it simple for now. You pick your software defined data center stack and we even enable a BYOL. A lot of people have their own Vsphere licenses. We enable them to go in and insert their key which is a cost advantage to them. Then you pick your partner services and such. So you pick your Veeam, and then you go in there and say "Well, where do I want to put it? Do I want to put it into Vsan? Do I want to put it into a file based storage?" And I think what we're really excited about is, we just recently announced being able to put this into IBM's cloud object storage. And that's huge, because, if you think about it, we all live in this area of regulatory and compliance and you can't throw anything away and the data is just exploding all over the place. So, having that ability to put it into a lower cost storage and all automated and essentially Veeam can essentially point to any of those multiple storage tiers. It gives our customers a big advantage so that they could essentially, I'll call it right-tune what they want to do and where they want to do their backups. So, they want something there quick or they say "Nah, you know, that could be a cold vault. I can keep that out there for a while and when I need it I'll go back and get it." So a lot of flexibility on storage options, a lot of flexibility on the pricing. But Veeam essentially is that powerhouse behind it that's actually interfacing that VMWare world as well as on the bare metal side over to those various levels of storage. >> So David, to answer your question, where are we in that 9 innings. I would have said bottom of the 1st, 1 out, 2 men on, 1 of them is Manny Ramirez. [Laughter] Because you just don't know what's going to happen next, and that's what I want to bring up. Veeam talked about... >> Is he a Boston fan? >> No, I'm not. [Laughter] I'm not. But Veeam talked about the "with Veeam" and I'm wondering how IBM sees it bringing its, this massive innovation, you still are one of the leading generators of patents in certainly the tech industry, but globally. How do you see IBM bringing IBM intellectual property, IBM invention, to this "with Veeam" platform to increase the degree to which it can serve a broader range of customers of different sizes, different geographies, and different workload forms. How do you see IBM participating in that process? >> Yeah, let me give you a couple examples. So, let me just take a non-Veeam example, just to talk about some IBM innovation. So, about a month ago we actually introduced something called hyperprotect cryptoservices. That's a big word there. Basically, it is, it's the same technology that we have in system Z, that's used by our large enterprise customers that gives you that, that FIPS 140-2, level 4. We are the only cloud in the world that has that technology that's on there. Basically, once you put your keys in there nobody's going to get to them at all. And it's an innovation of taking something that was done in a different division within IBM and now making that as an endpoint service within our cloud. Now, let me give you an example of doing a little bit of innovation even with Veeam. So, one of the things that we're trying to do is, you know, we started out hey, let's lay down the software data center stack, let's lay down partner services. Now, let's focus on what's that solution layer on top of it. How do we add more value into our clients? So, just take SAP, for example. We just recently announced both on a bare metal and also on our VMWare side, to be able to have a, we're the only cloud that has a certified SAP server in the cloud. And what we've just recently done is, we've integrated and put Veeam as that backup choice for that. So, now what that really enables everyone to do is leverage a lot of innovative work that Veeam was doing to make sure that you can back up SAP correctly. We married that with our infrastructure and our bare metal/VMWare stack with Veeam as that backup. And just a little bit of foreshadowing in the future, we're going to look at ways to further automate a lot of that SAP landscape so that our clients see, you know, a much better automated solution so that they essentially, using your baseball analogy, are going to see that full range of automation and say "Wow. I think we're at the end of the game here. This thing truly is automated, easy to consume, and I'll have the confidence of the security and the business resiliency knowing that it's got the trusted IBM name behind it. >> You know, give us the summary of 2019. Maybe some of the first half highlights and maybe show a little leg for the second half. >> Sure, sure. Why not? >> What can we expect leading up to IBM thing. >> So, I mentioned a few things about what we did in the security space already. So, we've enabled, besides our, what we've done with high trust, with data and key protection. We've also enabled IBM's key protect services. We brought the System Z hyperprotect services into the mix. We've enabled things like cavionics to bring the risk foresight. So, now, we can monitor a lot of compliance and keep things in compliance and monitor that for you. We brought some app modernization to essentially help people on their journey modernize their apps, leveraging both a tight integration of VMWare and what we call ICP-hosted or IBM Cloud Private hosted to get that tight integration and such. But moving forward I see a couple big things, and I'll try to maybe put them in the Veeam perspective and such. You heard me mention before about this 80% of that real key workload coming over to the cloud that, you know, business critical or mission critical. We announced last year something called mission critical VMWare, and basically what it is, it's two, two active, active type of sites with a witness site and you essentially are moving things back and forth so if you have a failure within a region you instantly can go in and switch over. And the idea is to give you the highest availability into the cloud. And Veeam is a very much integral part of that solution in the sense that it'll be our backup. And then since you said do a little bit of foreshadowing, say what's coming in the future. We have a very very strong single tenant VMWare offering on the cloud. Like I was saying, you know, it's client managed, the hypervisor access. You've got that extreme flexibility and control. But what we like to do is kind of look into a little bit more of that multi-tenant type of space. And we think it opens up a whole new market segment for us in that emerging market and commercial market space. Guess who's going to be our partner in that to make the backup happen? That's going to be Veeam. >> Cool. Dale Hoffman, thanks so much for coming to the CUBE and sharing. >> Oh, thank you for having me. >> Some of the ways in which IBM is differentiating, not doing infrastructure service and just racing to zero, but really trying to pick your spots and I really appreciate your insights and thanks again. >> Okay, thank you. >> Alright, keep it right there everybody. This is Dave Vellante with Peter Burris. Day one at VeeamON2019, and from Miami you're watching the CUBE. We'll be right back.

>> Live from Miami Beach Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering VeeamON 2019. Brought to you by Veeam. >> Welcome back to Miami everybody, we're here at the Fontainebleau hotel. You're watching theCUBE, the leader of live tech coverage. This is day one of our coverage of VeeamON, the third year that we've covered Veeam, they've selected this great location here in Miami. I'm Dave Vellante, with my co-host Peter Burris. Ratmir Timashev is here, he is the co-founder and executive vice president, world-wide sales of Veeam, business guru, sales and marketing maven, a very successful entrepreneur, welcome to the theCUBE and thanks so much for having us. >> Thank you Dave, thank you Peter, thanks for having us. Thanks for doing this at our event. >> You're very welcome, so first of all congratulations, you hit that billion dollar milestone. You predicted it back in 2013, you missed it by about six months Ratmir, you know, (laughs) but really, great. Trailing 12 months, a billion dollars in revenue that includes of course your Ratable revenue, the subscription revenue, which who could have predicted that back in 2013, so amazing milestone, congratulations. And great venue here, you must be really pleased with the turnout, couple thousand people, your thoughts? >> Yeah absolutely, I personally love Miami, this is the best city. Always sunny, always ocean, always blue sky, awesome. And always sand, like that's the best place. So I've always had the dream to have VeeamON in Miami, so the dream comes true, we have over 2,000 people here and many more are watching livestream online. Very excited, very excited. >> Well, Veeam's always been a hip company, always a lot of fun, this is obviously a hip place, good fun part of the country. Let's talk about act one and act two. Act one was, you guys really rode the virtualization wave and you talked today about act two really being cloud and hybrid cloud data management. What are the similarities and the differences between act one and act two? >> So like we discussed during the keynote session, every 10 years or so there is a major industry transformation shift from one platform to another platform, so Veeamware 10 years ago created this technology visualization that dramatically fundamentally changed the way modern data centers are built and managed. And Veeam was very lucky to be at the earlier stage of that virtualization revolution that changed the whole data center. that changed the whole data center. So we were at the right time at the right place. We created the new market, Veeamware backup, and then we extended it to hyperV and HV. So we dominated that mode of data LAE share. But in the last few years we expanded our platform. So beyond just the virtualization, we added the physical support, the Unix support, the cloud support. So now Veeam represents broad, what we call Veeam Availability Platform that supports LAE clouds, virtual, physical clouds. That was act one, we dominated it. We grew from zero to 1 billion within 10, 12 years. We added 350,000 customers over that timeframe. And now it's act two, what is act two? Act two is the, again, the new major industry transformation to a hybrid cloud. What are the similarities? Again, Veeam is in a great position because we're at the right time at the right place with a brilliant product. We have the broad LAE system of our channel partners. We have a broad customer base, 350,000. And we have great technology partnerships with HP, Cisco, NetUP, Nutanix, Pure, and others, so as well as AWS, and Microsoft, and Google, and IBM cloud. So we are in extremely great position to dominate this second wave, what we call second act, which will be the next decade of hybrid cloud. >> Yeah, so optionality was a key, being able to support multiple use cases and supporting different environments. You're well positioned, you're saying, in act two. Act one you really didn't have a lot of competition, you kind of schooled the competition, I think Dell took out some of your early competition then you ran circles around everybody else. A lot more money pouring into this space now, you showed the slide, 15 billion, you've got a 15th of it. Tell us again why you feel like you can, you just used the word, dominate, with all this competition. You got the big guys now sort of learning from you and trying to copy some of your moves and maybe pre announcing some stuff to try and freeze the market. What gives you great confidence that you will dominate act two. >> Again, we have a history of innovation, so we know that there are new requirements for the hybrid cloud. People not only want to protect the data, they want to make sure that when they move to a hybrid cloud, when they put the workloads in a public cloud, that that data is protected, is secured and protected. So that's one capability that customers are looking for. Another capability, they want to be able to move the data back on-prem, or between the clouds, what we call cloud mobility, so they want to have this flexibility and freedom, be cloud agnostic or avoid that cloud lock-in. So they want to also make sure that from compliance standpoint, they are able to move the data if needed. In other use cases they want to leverage the cloud for different data protection capabilities. They want to leverage the cloud for backup, for disaster recovery as well as for long term retention, what we call cloud tier, so they want to, instead of tape, they want to replace tape with the public cloud low storage. So they want to use the cost and the skill ability of the public cloud for long term retentions. So all these use cases, extension of our platform. So we already have the, we own the one component of the hybrid cloud which is on-prem, modern data center, what some people call private cloud. We already own one component and we have 350,000 customers. Most of these customers are going to deploy hybrid cloud. In fact, according to our survey, 73% of our customers are deploying or planning to deploy a hybrid cloud. So most of them I think, in how to leverage the performance, the skill ability, and the elasticity, of the public cloud. So we own this component, we have the capabilities and we're developing product capabilities for the public cloud and with our orchestration on top of it and monitoring and analytics capabilities. So it's a complete solution. >> So Ratmir, I want to build upon this notion of act one and act two because good for you guys over ten years but the industry also is going through an act one to act two when you come right down to it. Where data, for the first four years of this industry, was about recording events that have happened. And now data going forward is becoming a strategic asset that's actually shaping the events that are happening or will happen. And it requires a new approach. It requires that data be regarded as a strategic asset and capabilities have to be established to support that data. I'm especially itched in with the introduction that you made because it suggests that you guys are going to look to an ecosystem to bring that degree of specialization and uniqueness and invention, on top of your platform, to serve a rapidly expanding range of strategic capability requirements when we think about data protection, data assurance. Do you see it the same way? >> Absolutely yeah, I 100% agree. I talked about that briefly during my keynote. We see that there are this four technology superpowers what Pat Galson from Veeamware calls technology superpowers. And those are the cloud, the mobile, artificial intelligence and age in internal things. So all this four technology superpowers. The biggest producers and consumers of the data. So it has to be both in the cloud and on the age so the new product and services are built on that data. Either we are talking about self driving cars, or we are talking about breakthrough in DNA research or cancer research. It's all built both in the cloud and on the age. And Veeam has this technology called data lapse. So when we've actually provide the access to the data, to a field party, either security or compliance or analytical tenders. So they can build more solutions on top of our data lapse. >> So talk a little bit about how you planned to deploy capital going forward, particularly as you try to leverage the opportunities in cloud two. You're seeing all kinds of new emerging technologies. We talk about coup berneties and containers all the time. You've made some acquisitions in the cloud area. Should we think about your emanate strategies as just sort of advancing your ability to either form ecosystems or actually bring in more cloud like capabilities, beyond act one into act two? >> Yeah I mean, first of all, we have a very powerful product and RNZ group. Partially we have this mentality not invented here so in other words we want to invent more in house. However, there are some cases where we need to extend our platform and we might not have the bandwidths or time through market so we're looking at some adjacent in the cloud management space, in the cloud optimization, course optimization, analytics. Those areas are very interesting for us to expand our platform to. >> I'm guessing that NIH mentality, acquisitions you make have to fit into that platform, that architecture. How do you evaluate? You say okay, can we do this ourselves? You say do we have the bandwidth? Is that technology here now? >> Does with Veeam help? >> Yeah with Veeam that's a great problem that we announced today as well. Yeah so the way we evaluate is that, is this adjacent market to what we're doing? For example, AWS or Asur, how close the buyer is. Or Office 365 backup we evolved in house. Or Office 365 backup we evolved in house. Azureware developed in house. Some technologies we are looking to acquire. The question is, is that the same buyer? If the buyer is the same, we prefer to develop in house. If the buyer, for now, is different, we would like to acquire the company and let it grow, and then merge into Veeam later. >> So your co founder runs RND correct? >> Correct >> And you run sales and marketing? So you guys fight over how you're going to allocate the dollars. But as a specialist in data protection, you're allocating all of your RND funding toward data protection. Presumably that helps you compete against the guys who are doing primary storage, secondary storage, all kinds of other software. So when you think about that road map, you told the story about how you got inspiration. You went to Silicon Valley and you were flying back and your partner said, well you know the best product just doesn't always win but you said, whoa so what, do we not invent the best products? You want to have the best products. Talk a little about that sort of organic development. How you guys think about that approach. Where the ideas come from. Is it obviously the customer input? Your knowledge of the space? Where do you see that going? >> So Veeam we believe is very different from other companies. First, we don't build long term road map because the technology is changing so fast that we want to keep that flexibility and agility to change our roadmap. We only disclose our release that we're imminent. Within the next six, nine months we already know. Beyond that, we don't provide the roadmap. We have the vision but we don't have the roadmap with the exact specific dates. >> But it's not a waterfall thinking. It's more agile applied to our-- >> Exactly, agile and flexibility that's what's, agility and flexibility that's what's most important. For example, a year ago or even two years ago when we announced version 10. We didn't know that object storage will become such a needed hot thing that all our customers are asking for. Including the on-prem object storage and the cloud object storage. So we changed our plans and we put lots of resources into object storage. And we finally released the best capability to use the object storage. We believe that object storage is the next cool thing in cloud data management because it will provide 10 times more capacity at the 10th of the course and 10 times faster performance. So it's like it's the next cool technology. That's just one example. Another thing is that, what differentiates Veeam in terms of RNZ and product strategy is that, if we release the feature, we don't do it as a marketing check box, we do cloud storage or we do object storage or we do this or we support Azure. When we design the feature, we think about is it going to be really really valuable? So that our customers, when they get it, they say wow, that's exactly what I needed. So we don't do as a marketing check box, we do provide and our customers really value that. They expect from Veeam that when Veeam releases something, it's going to be useful. >> And easy to use. >> Easy to use and very useful. >> That's important because when you're on offence, you don't have to do check box marketing. We know that a lot of times companies will do check box marketing 'cause they'll hear it in the field. The innovater has it, oh we have it too. And when you really peel the onion you see the differences and start to move forward. Okay so let's talk a little about customers. You had United Health on today. What are you hearing from customers? What are the customers saying that are inspiring you and your team? >> Today's conversations with the customers they start with the modernizing the, continue modernizing their data. A lot of customers still use the legacy backup solutions. They want to modernize. But the conversation quickly shifts to the hybrid cloud. How Veeam is going to help me not only modernize the backup data management on-prem, but how Veeam is going to help me to move to the cloud, manage the data, orchestrate the data movement in the cloud and maybe if needed, bring the data back for compliance reasons. So that conversation always occurs with any size companies. In fact, according to our survey, 73% of our customers say that they have a hybrid cloud strategy. Only 10% say no, we will always stay 100% on-prem. And about 15% say I will move everything to a public cloud. The huge majority is in the middle. 73% have the hybrid strategy. >> Yeah that sort of answers my next question but I'm going to ask it anyway. So an observer might well aren't the cloud guys just going to do their own backup and recovery. Why wouldn't that supplant Veeam? You sort of addressed it with the hybrid approach but I want to hear your answer. All the cloud guys have some form of replication or snapshotting, granted it's not as robust, you and I know that. But for the audience, explain to them why the cloud doesn't put you out of business. >> In fact cloud represents the biggest opportunity for the next 5-7-10 years. It's just historically, the platform vendors they don't provide the good tools, security tools or backup tools. We've been in this business over 25 years. Our first company was specialized in Windows Enterprise Management so we developed lots of tools around Microsoft platforms for managing active directory exchange server, share points, equal server. We always were afraid maybe Microsoft will come up with the similar solutions but they never did. The same is for today's world. Customers want to have the independence from the platform and the vendor, like AWS or Microsoft, they will never provide the capability to move the data outside of AWS. But for the true compliance security, a vendor like Veeam you need the capability not just backup AWS to AWS but you want to be able to backup AWS to on-prem and on-prem to AWS. Or AWS to Azure. So only Veeam can platform vendors, they are not looking to do that. So they want to move the data to the cloud. They're not necessarily providing more capabilities. Move the data outside of their cloud and that's where Veeam comes in, with the cloud mobility capabilities. >> One of the things that our researchers strongly pointed out, is that there are few places within a technology set of capabilities that they must control. And data protection is one of them. So they have to have an approach for managing data protection within their business that's their approach. And there are a few companies in a position to actually provide that. >> Yeah, I absolutely agree. Some customers they think that if I put the data into AWS or Azure or Office 365, Microsoft is going to protect it or AWS. No, it's your data, microsoft protects the infrastructure. So it's a off time service. That's where Microsoft or AWS are responsible. The data is yours. You are responsible for protecting the data recovery. If you delete an email, it's not Microsoft's fault. If you need to do an e-discovery on your email system, that's not Microsoft's problem. >> If you're out of compliance, Microsoft executives aren't going to jail. >> Exactly. That's your responsibility. Your data, Your responsibility. In fact we have a white paper that talks about the shared responsibility model. So there is a shared responsibility. AWS, public cloud providers, they're responsible to keep the service up and running. So therefore resilient infrastructure. Not the data, the data is yours. That sits on top of that resilient infrastructure. >> Yeah you've gone after Office 365 as the starting point for SaaS. Maybe there's other opportunities down the road. Right now it's probably a small market but I think it could emerge over time. But the overall time, you showed $15 billion. Today you have 1/15th of it. Lot more competition today. You see some of your competitors risk $250 million you have to one up them with a $500 million risk. You told me years ago Ratmir, we're probably not going to do an IPO. Give us an update there, same stance on that? >> No we've actually very open to the idea about IPO and we're exploring different opportunities. But we believe that we can continue growing organically because the company is very profitable. So we're reinvesting money into RNZ and we have good foundation for the next act two. But speaking about Office 365 by the way, it's the fastest growing product in the history of Veeam. >> Really? >> Of backup for Office 365 is the fastest growing because we have 350,000 customers, most of them are using Office 365 and they need to protect that data. So and they love Veeam, they are buying. But also we'll actually need new customers just buying Office 365. 23% of our customers for Office 365 are new customers. Also a little bit surprising for us. >> So O365 OneDrive is another opportunity that you guys have gone after. >> It's all part of the same product, yes. >> Salesforce maybe not quite there yet but you could potentially see that emerging as an opportunity? Do you see that? >> Yes we are looking at Salesforce. We are looking at G's width. We are looking at other SaaS applications that are popular among the business customers. >> One point really quickly Dave, is that 1/15th of that $15 billion TAM is just Veeam. Your ecosystem is increasingly going to use the Veeam services to expand the Veeam share of that, the virtual Veeam share of that, even as you grow. I think that's what's particularly interesting is how will that ecosystem add additional services on top of that, to grab more of that overall share. >> And I think, and please comment on that, that's unique to Veeam and the data protection space. You have your own events. You have premier partners that come in. Some of your competitors don't, they're not quite there yet. Some of the other larger competitors it's a small little piece of their whole business so the focus really is accentuated. >> Veeam has always had a channel part in ariant stretch. From day one we were 100% channel, 100%. We don't take the deal directly. Also, we build the broad service provider system network. So we have over 20,000 what we call Veeam cloud and service providers that provide the services to our customers based on Veeam platform backup in the cloud, disaster recovery, manage backup. Finally today we announce with Veeam that's another new initiative that we are expanding our ecosystem with Veeam APS where we want our partners, together with us, build this secondary storage systems that provide a single solution because some customers they want to buy in the form of the hardware appliance, our solution. So it's going to be pre installed, similar experience, out of the box functionality, easy to deploy, easy to manage with a single interphase. All provided and with a single support wise. So those systems will be created together with our partners. Like we announced one with Nutanix as well as with ExaGrid. We are working, Nutanix is one of the most innovative companies in our industry and we were very happy to partner with them because we believe that we will develop the right solution and we will be able to take this APS and offer our other partners to Build a secondary storage system, together with us. >> Well we've seen this little company, years ago, called Veeam, what a great name, superglue itself to the virtualization trend and really ride that wave now going onto act two, which is a cloud rapid timid shift. Thanks so much for coming to theCUBE. Great to see you again. >> Thank you Dave. >> Keep right there everybody. This is theCUBE, we're here at VeeamOn2019 in Miami. We'll be right back after this short break.