>>Hello. And we're here at the cube startup showcase made possible by a Ws. Thanks so much for joining us today. You know when Jim McDaid Ghani was formulating her ideas around data mesh, She wasn't the only one thinking about decentralized data architecture. Hello, Fresh was going into hyper growth mode and realized that in order to support its scale, it needed to rethink how it thought about data. Like many companies that started in the early part of last decade, Hello Fresh relied on a monolithic data architecture and the internal team. It had concerns about its ability to support continued innovation at high velocity. The company's data team began to think about the future and work backwards from a target architecture which possessed many principles of so called data mesh even though they didn't use that term. Specifically, the company is a strong example of an early but practical pioneer of data mission. Now there are many practitioners and stakeholders involved in evolving the company's data architecture, many of whom are listed here on this on the slide to are highlighted in red are joining us today, we're really excited to welcome into the cube Clements cheese, the Global Senior Director for Data at Hello Fresh and christoph Nevada who's the Global Senior Director of data also, of course. Hello Fresh folks. Welcome. Thanks so much for making some time today and sharing your story. >>Thank you very much. Hey >>steve. All right, let's start with Hello Fresh. You guys are number one in the world in your field, you deliver hundreds of millions of meals each year to many, many millions of people around the globe. You're scaling christoph. Tell us a little bit more about your company and its vision. >>Yeah. Should I start or Clements maybe maybe take over the first piece because Clements has actually been a longer trajectory yet have a fresh. >>Yeah go ahead. Climate change. I mean yes about approximately six years ago I joined handle fresh and I didn't think about the startup I was joining would eventually I. P. O. And just two years later and the freshman public and approximately three years and 10 months after. Hello fresh was listed on the German stock exchange which was just last week. Hello Fresh was included in the Ducks Germany's leading stock market index and debt to mind a great great milestone and I'm really looking forward and I'm very excited for the future for the future for head of fashion. All our data. Um the vision that we have is to become the world's leading food solution group and there's a lot of attractive opportunities. So recently we did lounge and expand Norway. This was in july and earlier this year we launched the U. S. Brand green >>chef in the U. K. As >>well. We're committed to launch continuously different geographies in the next coming years and have a strong pipe ahead of us with the acquisition of ready to eat companies like factor in the U. S. And the planned acquisition of you foods in Australia. We're diversifying our offer now reaching even more and more untapped customer segments and increase our total addressable market. So by offering customers and growing range of different alternatives to shop food and consumer meals. We are charging towards this vision and the school to become the world's leading integrated food solutions group. >>Love it. You guys are on a rocket ship, you're really transforming the industry and as you expand your tam it brings us to sort of the data as a as a core part of that strategy. So maybe you guys could talk a little bit about your journey as a company specifically as it relates to your data journey. You began as a start up. You had a basic architecture like everyone. You made extensive use of spreadsheets. You built a Hadoop based system that started to grow and when the company I. P. O. You really started to explode. So maybe describe that journey from a data perspective. >>Yes they saw Hello fresh by 2015 approximately had evolved what amount of classical centralized management set up. So we grew very organically over the years and there were a lot of very smart people around the globe. Really building the company and building our infrastructure. Um This also means that there were a small number of internal and external sources. Data sources and a centralized the I team with a number of people producing different reports, different dashboards and products for our executives for example of our different operations teams, christian company's performance and knowledge was transferred um just via talking to each other face to face conversations and the people in the data where's team were considered as the data wizard or as the E. T. L. Wizard. Very classical challenges. And those et al. Reserves indicated the kind of like a silent knowledge of data management. Right? Um so a central data whereas team then was responsible for different type of verticals and different domains, different geographies and all this setup gave us to the beginning the flexibility to grow fast as a company in 2015 >>christoph anything that might add to that. >>Yes. Um Not expected to that one but as as clement says it right, this was kind of set up that actually work for us quite a while. And then in 2017 when L. A. Freshman public, the company also grew rapidly and just to give you an idea how that looked like. As was that the tech department self actually increased from about 40 people to almost 300 engineers And the same way as a business units as Clemens has described, also grew sustainable, sustainably. So we continue to launch hello fresh and new countries launching brands like every plate and also acquired other brands like much of a factor and with that grows also from a data perspective the number of data requests that centrally we're getting become more and more and more and also more and more complex. So that for the team meant that they had a fairly high mental load. So they had to achieve a very or basically get a very deep understanding about the business. And also suffered a lot from this context switching back and forth, essentially there to prioritize across our product request from our physical product, digital product from the physical from sorry, from the marketing perspective and also from the central reporting uh teams. And in a nutshell this was very hard for these people. And this that also to a situation that, let's say the solution that we have became not really optimal. So in a nutshell, the central function became a bottleneck and slowdown of all the innovation of the company. >>It's a classic case, isn't it? I mean Clements, you see you see the central team becomes a bottleneck and so the lines of business, the marketing team salesman's okay, we're going to take things into our own hands. And then of course I I. T. And the technical team is called in later to clean up the mess. Uh maybe, I mean was that maybe I'm overstating it, but that's a common situation, isn't it? >>Yeah. Uh This is what exactly happened. Right. So um we had a bottleneck, we have the central teams, there was always a little of tension um analytics teams then started in this business domains like marketing, trade chain, finance, HR and so on. Started really to build their own data solutions at some point you have to get the ball rolling right and then continue the trajectory um which means then that the data pipelines didn't meet the engineering standards. And um there was an increased need for maintenance and support from central teams. Hence over time the knowledge about those pipelines and how to maintain a particular uh infrastructure for example left the company such that most of those data assets and data sets are turned into a huge step with decreasing data quality um also decrease the lack of trust, decreasing transparency. And this was increasing challenge where majority of time was spent in meeting rooms to align on on data quality for example. >>Yeah. And and the point you were making christoph about context switching and this is this is a point that Jemaah makes quite often is we've we've we've contextualized are operational systems like our sales systems, our marketing system but not our our data system. So you're asking the data team, Okay. Be an expert in sales, be an expert in marketing, be an expert in logistics, be an expert in supply chain and it start stop, start, stop, it's a paper cut environment and it's just not as productive. But but on the flip side of that is when you think about a centralized organization you think, hey this is going to be a very efficient way, a cross functional team to support the organization but it's not necessarily the highest velocity, most effective organizational structure. >>Yeah, so so I agree with that. Is that up to a certain scale, a centralized function has a lot of advantages, right? That's clear for everyone which would go to some kind of expert team. However, if you see that you actually would like to accelerate that and specific and this hyper growth, right, you wanna actually have autonomy and certain teams and move the teams or let's say the data to the experts in these teams and this, as you have mentioned, right, that increases mental load and you can either internally start splitting your team into a different kind of sub teams focusing on different areas. However, that is then again, just adding another peace where actually collaboration needs to happen busy external sees, so why not bridging that gap immediately and actually move these teams and to end into into the function themselves. So maybe just to continue what, what was Clements was saying and this is actually where over. So Clements, my journey started to become one joint journey. So Clements was coming actually from one of these teams to build their own solutions. I was basically having the platform team called database housed in these days and in 2019 where basically the situation become more and more serious, I would say so more and more people have recognized that this model doesn't really scale In 2019, basically the leadership of the company came together and I identified data as a key strategic asset and what we mean by that, that if we leverage data in a proper way, it gives us a unique competitive advantage which could help us to, to support and actually fully automated our decision making process across the entire value chain. So what we're, what we're trying to do now or what we should be aiming for is that Hello, Fresh is able to build data products that have a purpose. We're moving away from the idea. Data is just a by problem products, we have a purpose why we would like to collect this data. There's a clear business need behind that. And because it's so important to for the company as a business, we also want to provide them as a trust versi asset to the rest of the organization. We say there's the best customer experience, but at least in a way that users can easily discover, understand and security access high quality data. >>Yeah, so and and and Clements, when you c J Maxx writing, you see, you know, she has the four pillars and and the principles as practitioners you look at that say, okay, hey, that's pretty good thinking and then now we have to apply it and that's and that's where the devil meets the details. So it's the four, you know, the decentralized data ownership data as a product, which we'll talk about a little bit self serve, which you guys have spent a lot of time on inclement your wheelhouse which is which is governance and a Federated governance model. And it's almost like if you if you achieve the first two then you have to solve for the second to it almost creates a new challenges but maybe you could talk about that a little bit as to how it relates to Hello fresh. >>Yes. So christophe mentioned that we identified economic challenge beforehand and for how can we actually decentralized and actually empower the different colleagues of ours. This was more a we realized that it was more an organizational or a cultural change and this is something that somebody also mentioned I think thought words mentioned one of the white papers, it's more of a organizational or cultural impact and we kicked off a um faced reorganization or different phases we're currently and um in the middle of still but we kicked off different phases of organizational reconstruct oring reorganization, try unlock this data at scale. And the idea was really moving away from um ever growing complex matrix organizations or matrix setups and split between two different things. One is the value creation. So basically when people ask the question, what can we actually do, what shall we do? This is value creation and how, which is capability building and both are equal in authority. This actually then creates a high urge and collaboration and this collaboration breaks up the different silos that were built and of course this also includes different needs of stuffing forward teams stuffing with more, let's say data scientists or data engineers, data professionals into those business domains and hence also more capability building. Um Okay, >>go ahead. Sorry. >>So back to Tzemach did johnny. So we the idea also Then crossed over when she published her papers in May 2019 and we thought well The four colors that she described um we're around decentralized data ownership, product data as a product mindset, we have a self service infrastructure and as you mentioned, Federated confidential governance. And this suited very much with our thinking at that point of time to reorganize the different teams and this then leads to a not only organisational restructure but also in completely new approach of how we need to manage data, show data. >>Got it. Okay, so your business is is exploding. Your data team will have to become domain experts in too many areas, constantly contact switching as we said, people started to take things into their own hands. So again we said classic story but but you didn't let it get out of control and that's important. So we actually have a picture of kind of where you're going today and it's evolved into this Pat, if you could bring up the picture with the the elephant here we go. So I would talk a little bit about the architecture, doesn't show it here, the spreadsheet era but christoph maybe you can talk about that. It does show the Hadoop monolith which exists today. I think that's in a managed managed hosting service, but but you you preserve that piece of it, but if I understand it correctly, everything is evolving to the cloud, I think you're running a lot of this or all of it in A W. S. Uh you've got everybody's got their own data sources, uh you've got a data hub which I think is enabled by a master catalog for discovery and all this underlying technical infrastructure. That is really not the focus of this conversation today. But the key here, if I understand it correctly is these domains are autonomous and not only that this required technical thinking, but really supportive organizational mindset, which we're gonna talk about today. But christoph maybe you could address, you know, at a high level some of the architectural evolution that you guys went through. >>Yeah, sure. Yeah, maybe it's also a good summary about the entire history. So as you have mentioned, right, we started in the very beginning with the model is on the operation of playing right? Actually, it wasn't just one model is both to one for the back end and one for the for the front and and or analytical plane was essentially a couple of spreadsheets and I think there's nothing wrong with spreadsheets, right, allows you to store information, it allows you to transform data allows you to share this information. It allows you to visualize this data, but all the kind of that's not actually separating concern right? Everything in one tool. And this means that obviously not scalable, right? You reach the point where this kind of management set up in or data management of isn't one tool reached elements. So what we have started is we've created our data lake as we have seen here on Youtube. And this at the very beginning actually reflected very much our operational populace on top of that. We used impala is a data warehouse, but there was not really a distinction between borders, our data warehouse and borders our data like the impala was used as a kind of those as the kind of engine to create a warehouse and data like construct itself and this organic growth actually led to a situation as I think it's it's clear now that we had to centralized model is for all the domains that will really lose kimball modeling standards. There was no uniformity used actually build in house uh ways of building materialized use abuse that we have used for the presentation layer, there was a lot of duplication of effort and in the end essentially they were missing feedbacks, food, which helped us to to improve of what we are filled. So in the end, in the natural, as we have said, the lack of trust and that's basically what the starting point for us to understand. Okay, how can we move away and there are a lot of different things that you can discuss of apart from this organizational structure that we have said, okay, we have these three or four pillars from from Denmark. However, there's also the next extra question around how do we implement our talking about actual right, what are the implications on that level? And I think that is there's something that we are that we are currently still in progress. >>Got it. Okay, so I wonder if we could talk about switch gears a little bit and talk about the organizational and cultural challenges that you faced. What were those conversations like? Uh let's dig into that a little bit. I want to get into governance as well. >>The conversations on the cultural change. I mean yes, we went through a hyper growth for the last year since obviously there were a lot of new joiners, a lot of different, very, very smart people joining the company which then results that collaboration uh >>got a bit more difficult. Of course >>there are times and changes, you have different different artifacts that you were created um and documentation that were flying around. Um so we were we had to build the company from scratch right? Um Of course this then resulted always this tension which I described before, but the most important part here is that data has always been a very important factor at l a fresh and we collected >>more of this >>data and continued to improve use data to improve the different key areas of our business. >>Um even >>when organizational struggles, the central organizational struggles data somehow always helped us to go through this this kind of change. Right? Um in the end those decentralized teams in our local geography ease started with solutions that serve the business which was very very important otherwise wouldn't be at the place where we are today but they did by all late best practices and standards and I always used sport analogy Dave So like any sport, there are different rules and regulations that need to be followed. These rules are defined by calling the sports association and this is what you can think about data governance and compliance team. Now we add the players to it who need to follow those rules and bite by them. This is what we then called data management. Now we have the different players and professionals, they need to be trained and understand the strategy and it rules before they can play. And this is what I then called data literacy. So we realized that we need to focus on helping our teams to develop those capabilities and teach the standards for how work is being done to truly drive functional excellence in a different domains. And one of our mission of our data literacy program for example is to really empower >>every employee at hello >>fresh everyone to make the right data informs decisions by providing data education that scaled by royal Entry team. Then this can be different things, different things like including data capabilities, um, with the learning paths for example. Right? So help them to create and deploy data products connecting data producers and data consumers and create a common sense and more understanding of each other's dependencies, which is important, for example, S. S. L. O. State of contracts and etcetera. Um, people getting more of a sense of ownership and responsibility. Of course, we have to define what it means, what does ownership means? But the responsibility means. But we're teaching this to our colleagues via individual learning patterns and help them up skill to use. Also, there's shared infrastructure and those self self service applications and overall to summarize, we're still in this progress of of, of learning, we are still learning as well. So learning never stops the tele fish, but we are really trying this um, to make it as much fun as possible. And in the end we all know user behavior has changed through positive experience. Uh, so instead of having massive training programs over endless courses of workshops, um, leaving our new journalists and colleagues confused and overwhelmed. >>We're applying um, >>game ification, right? So split different levels of certification where our colleagues can access, have had access points, they can earn badges along the way, which then simplifies the process of learning and engagement of the users and this is what we see in surveys, for example, where our employees that your justification approach a lot and are even competing to collect Those learning path batteries to become the # one on the leader board. >>I love the game ification, we've seen it work so well and so many different industries, not the least of which is crypto so you've identified some of the process gaps uh that you, you saw it is gloss over them. Sometimes I say paved the cow path. You didn't try to force, in other words, a new architecture into the legacy processes. You really have to rethink your approach to data management. So what what did that entail? >>Um, to rethink the way of data management. 100%. So if I take the example of Revolution, Industrial Revolution or classical supply chain revolution, but just imagine that you have been riding a horse, for example, your whole life and suddenly you can operate a car or you suddenly receive just a complete new way of transporting assets from A to B. Um, so we needed to establish a new set of cross functional business processes to run faster, dry faster, um, more robustly and deliver data products which can be trusted and used by downstream processes and systems. Hence we had a subset of new standards and new procedures that would fall into the internal data governance and compliance sector with internal, I'm always referring to the data operations around new things like data catalog, how to identify >>ownership, >>how to change ownership, how to certify data assets, everything around classical software development, which we know apply to data. This this is similar to a new thinking, right? Um deployment, versioning, QA all the different things, ingestion policies, policing procedures, all the things that suffer. Development has been doing. We do it now with data as well. And in simple terms, it's a whole redesign of the supply chain of our data with new procedures and new processes and as a creation as management and as a consumption. >>So data has become kind of the new development kit. If you will um I want to shift gears and talk about the notion of data product and, and we have a slide uh that we pulled from your deck and I'd like to unpack it a little bit. Uh I'll just, if you can bring that up, I'll read it. A data product is a product whose primary objective is to leverage on data to solve customer problems where customers, both internal and external. So pretty straightforward. I know you've gone much deeper and you're thinking and into your organization, but how do you think about that And how do you determine for instance who owns what? How did you get everybody to agree? >>I can take that one. Um, maybe let me start with the data product. So I think um that's an ongoing debate. Right? And I think the debate itself is an important piece here, right? That visit the debate, you clarify what we actually mean by that product and what is actually the mindset. So I think just from a definition perspective, right? I think we find the common denominator that we say okay that our product is something which is important for the company has come to its value what you mean by that. Okay, it's it's a solution to a customer problem that delivers ideally maximum value to the business. And yes, it leverages the power of data and we have a couple of examples but it had a fresh year, the historical and classical ones around dashboards for example, to monitor or error rates but also more sophisticated ways for example to incorporate machine learning algorithms in our recipe recommendations. However, I think the important aspects of the data product is a there is an owner, right? There's someone accountable for making sure that the product that we are providing is actually served and is maintained and there are, there is someone who is making sure that this actually keeps the value of that problem thing combined with the idea of the proper documentation, like a product description, right that people understand how to use their bodies is about and related to that peace is the idea of it is a purpose. Right? You need to understand or ask ourselves, Okay, why does this thing exist does it provide the value that you think it does. That leads into a good understanding about the life cycle of the data product and life cycle what we mean? Okay from the beginning from the creation you need to have a good understanding, we need to collect feedback, we need to learn about that. We need to rework and actually finally also to think about okay benefits time to decommission piece. So overall, I think the core of the data product is product thinking 11 right that we start the point is the starting point needs to be the problem and not the solution and this is essentially what we have seen what was missing but brought us to this kind of data spaghetti that we have built there in in Russia, essentially we built at certain data assets, develop in isolation and continuously patch the solution just to fulfill these articles that we got and actually these aren't really understanding of the stakeholder needs and the interesting piece as a result in duplication of work and this is not just frustrating and probably not the most efficient way how the company should work. But also if I build the same that assets but slightly different assumption across the company and multiple teams that leads to data inconsistency and imagine the following too narrow you as a management for management perspective, you're asking basically a specific question and you get essentially from a couple of different teams, different kind of grass, different kind of data and numbers and in the end you do not know which ones to trust. So there's actually much more ambiguity and you do not know actually is a noise for times of observing or is it just actually is there actually a signal that I'm looking for? And the same is if I'm running in a B test right, I have a new future, I would like to understand what has it been the business impact of this feature. I run that specific source in an unfortunate scenario. Your production system is actually running on a different source. You see different numbers. What you've seen in a B test is actually not what you see then in production typical thing then is you're asking some analytics tend to actually do a deep dive to understand where the discrepancies are coming from. The worst case scenario. Again, there's a different kind of source. So in the end it's a pretty frustrating scenario and that's actually based of time of people that have to identify the root cause of this divergence. So in a nutshell, the highest degree of consistency is actually achieved that people are just reusing Dallas assets and also in the media talk that we have given right, we we start trying to establish this approach for a B testing. So we have a team but just providing or is kind of owning their target metric associated business teams and they're providing that as a product also to other services including the A B testing team, they'll be testing team can use this information defines an interface is okay I'm joining this information that the metadata of an experiment and in the end after the assignment after this data collection face, they can easily add a graph to the dashboard. Just group by the >>Beatles Hungarian. >>And we have seen that also in other companies. So it's not just a nice dream that we have right. I have actually worked in other companies where we worked on search and we established a complete KPI pipeline that was computing all this information. And this information was hosted by the team and it was used for everything A B test and deep dives and and regular reporting. So uh just one of the second the important piece now, why I'm coming back to that is that requires that we are treating this data as a product right? If you want to have multiple people using the things that I am owning and building, we have to provide this as a trust mercy asset and in a way that it's easy for people to discover and actually work with. >>Yeah. And coming back to that. So this is to me this is why I get so excited about data mesh because I really do think it's the right direction for organizations. When people hear data product they say well, what does that mean? Uh but then when you start to sort of define it as you did, it's it's using data to add value, that could be cutting costs, that could be generating revenue, it could be actually directly you're creating a product that you monetize, So it's sort of in the eyes of the beholder. But I think the other point that we've made is you made it earlier on to and again, context. So when you have a centralized data team and you have all these P NL managers a lot of times they'll question the data because they don't own it. They're like wait a minute. If they don't, if it doesn't agree with their agenda, they'll attack the data. But if they own the data then they're responsible for defending that and that is a mindset change, that's really important. Um And I'm curious uh is how you got to, you know, that ownership? Was it a was it a top down with somebody providing leadership? Was it more organic bottom up? Was it a sort of a combination? How do you decide who owned what in other words, you know, did you get, how did you get the business to take ownership of the data and what is owning? You know, the data actually mean? >>That's a very good question. Dave I think this is one of the pieces where I think we have a lot of learnings and basically if you ask me how we could start the feeling. I think that would be the first piece. Maybe we need to start to really think about how that should be approached if it stopped his ownership. Right? It means somehow that the team has a responsibility to host and self the data efforts to minimum acceptable standards. This minimum dependencies up and down string. The interesting piece has been looking backwards. What what's happening is that under that definition has actually process that we have to go through is not actually transferring ownership from the central team to the distributor teams. But actually most cases to establish ownership, I make this difference because saying we have to transfer ownership actually would erroneously suggests that the data set was owned before. But this platform team, yes, they had the capability to make the changes on data pipelines, but actually the analytics team, they're always the ones who had the business understands, you use cases and but no one actually, but it's actually expensive expected. So we had to go through this very lengthy process and establishing ownership. We have done that, as in the beginning, very naively. They have started, here's a document here, all the data assets, what is probably the nearest neighbor who can actually take care of that and then we we moved it over. But the problem here is that all these things is kind of technical debt, right? It's not really properly documented, pretty unstable. It was built in a very inconsistent over years and these people who have built this thing have already left the company. So there's actually not a nice thing that is that you want to see and people build up a certain resistance, e even if they have actually bought into this idea of domain ownership. So if you ask me these learnings, but what needs to happen as first, the company needs to really understand what our core business concept that they have, they need to have this mapping from. These are the core business concept that we have. These are the domain teams who are owning this concept and then actually link that to the to the assets and integrated better with both understanding how we can evolve actually, the data assets and new data build things new in the in this piece in the domain. But also how can we address reduction of technical death and stabilizing what we have already. >>Thank you for that christoph. So I want to turn a direction here and talk about governance and I know that's an area that's passionate, you're passionate about. Uh I pulled this slide from your deck, which I kind of messed up a little bit sorry for that, but but by the way, we're going to publish a link to the full video that you guys did. So we'll share that with folks. But it's one of the most challenging aspects of data mesh, if you're going to decentralize you, you quickly realize this could be the Wild West as we talked about all over again. So how are you approaching governance? There's a lot of items on this slide that are, you know, underscore the complexity, whether it's privacy, compliance etcetera. So, so how did you approach this? >>It's yeah, it's about connecting those dots. Right. So the aim of the data governance program is about the autonomy of every team was still ensuring that everybody has the right interoperability. So when we want to move from the Wild West riding horses to a civilised way of transport, um you can take the example of modern street traffic, like when all participants can manoeuvre independently and as long as they follow the same rules and standards, everybody can remain compatible with each other and understand and learn from each other so we can avoid car crashes. So when I go from country to country, I do understand what the street infrastructure means. How do I drive my car? I can also read the traffic lights in the different signals. Um, so likewise as a business and Hello Fresh, we do operate autonomously and consequently need to follow those external and internal rules and standards to set forth by the redistribution in which we operate so in order to prevent a car crash, we need to at least ensure compliance with regulations to account for society's and our customers increasing concern with data protection and privacy. So teaching and advocating this advantage, realizing this to everyone in the company um was a key community communication strategy and of course, I mean I mentioned data privacy external factors, the same goes for internal regulations and processes to help our colleagues to adapt to this very new environment. So when I mentioned before the new way of thinking the new way of um dealing and managing data, this of course implies that we need new processes and regulations for our colleagues as well. Um in a nutshell then this means the data governance provides a framework for managing our people the processes and technology and culture around our data traffic. And those components must come together in order to have this effective program providing at least a common denominator, especially critical for shared dataset, which we have across our different geographies managed and shared applications on shared infrastructure and applications and is then consumed by centralized processes um for example, master data, everything and all the metrics and KPI s which are also used for a central steering. Um it's a big change day. Right. And our ultimate goal is to have this noninvasive, Federated um ultimatum and computational governance and for that we can't just talk about it. We actually have to go deep and use case by use case and Qc buy PVC and generate learnings and learnings with the different teams. And this would be a classical approach of identifying the target structure, the target status, match it with the current status by identifying together with the business teams with the different domains have a risk assessment for example, to increase transparency because a lot of teams, they might not even know what kind of situation they might be. And this is where this training and this piece of illiteracy comes into place where we go in and trade based on the findings based on the most valuable use case um and based on that help our teams to do this change to increase um their capability just a little bit more and once they hand holding. But a lot of guidance >>can I kind of kind of trying to quickly David will allow me I mean there's there's a lot of governance piece but I think um that is important. And if you're talking about documentation for example, yes, we can go from team to team and tell these people how you have to document your data and data catalog or you have to establish data contracts and so on the force. But if you would like to build data products at scale following actual governance, we need to think about automation right. We need to think about a lot of things that we can learn from engineering before. And that starts with simple things like if we would like to build up trust in our data products, right, and actually want to apply the same rigor and the best practices that we know from engineering. There are things that we can do and we should probably think about what we can copy and one example might be. So the level of service level agreements, service level objectives. So that level indicators right, that represent on on an engineering level, right? If we're providing services there representing the promises we made to our customers or consumers, these are the internal objectives that help us to keep those promises. And actually these are the way of how we are tracking ourselves, how we are doing. And this is just one example of that thing. The Federated Governor governance comes into play right. In an ideal world, we should not just talk about data as a product but also data product. That's code that we say, okay, as most as much as possible. Right? Give the engineers the tool that they are familiar basis and actually not ask the product managers for example to document their data assets in the data catalog but make it part of the configuration. Have this as a, as a C D C I, a continuous delivery pipeline as we typically see another engineering task through and services we say, okay, there is configuration, we can think about pr I can think about data quality monitoring, we can think about um the ingestion data catalog and so on and forest, I think ideally in the data product will become of a certain templates that can be deployed and are actually rejected or verified at build time before we actually make them deploy them to production. >>Yeah, So it's like devoPS for data product um so I'm envisioning almost a three phase approach to governance and you kind of, it sounds like you're in early phases called phase zero where there's there's learning, there's literacy, there's training, education, there's kind of self governance and then there's some kind of oversight, some a lot of manual stuff going on and then you you're trying to process builders at this phase and then you codify it and then you can automate it. Is that fair? >>Yeah, I would rather think think about automation as early as possible in the way and yes, there needs to be certain rules but then actually start actually use case by use case. Is there anything that small piece that we can already automate? It's as possible. Roll that out and then actually extended step by step, >>is there a role though that adjudicates that? Is there a central Chief state officer who is responsible for making sure people are complying or is it how do you handle that? >>I mean from a from a from a platform perspective, yes, we have a centralized team to uh implement certain pieces they'll be saying are important and actually would like to implement. However, that is actually working very closely with the governance department. So it's Clements piece to understand and defy the policies that needs to be implemented. >>So Clements essentially it's it's your responsibility to make sure that the policy is being followed. And then as you were saying, christoph trying to compress the time to automation as fast as possible percent. >>So >>it's really it's uh >>what needs to be really clear that it's always a split effort, Right? So you can't just do one thing or the other thing, but everything really goes hand in hand because for the right automation for the right engineering tooling, we need to have the transparency first. Uh I mean code needs to be coded so we kind of need to operate on the same level with the right understanding. So there's actually two things that are important which is one its policies and guidelines, but not only that because more importantly or even well equally important to align with the end user and tech teams and engineering and really bridge between business value business teams and the engineering teams. >>Got it. So just a couple more questions because we gotta wrap I want to talk a little bit about the business outcome. I know it's hard to quantify and I'll talk about that in a moment but but major learnings, we've got some of the challenges that you cited. I'll just put them up here. We don't have to go detailed into this, but I just wanted to share with some folks. But my question, I mean this is the advice for your peers question if you had to do it differently if you had a do over or a Mulligan as we like to say for you golfers, what would you do differently? Yeah, >>I mean can we start with from a from the transformational challenge that understanding that it's also high load of cultural change. I think this is this is important that a particular communication strategy needs to be put into place and people really need to be um supported. Right? So it's not that we go in and say well we have to change towards data mesh but naturally it's in human nature, you know, we're kind of resistance to to change right? Her speech uncomfortable. So we need to take that away by training and by communicating um chris we're gonna add something to that >>and definitely I think the point that I have also made before right we need to acknowledge that data mesh is an architecture of scale, right? You're looking for something which is necessary by huge companies who are vulnerable, data productive scale. I mean Dave you mentioned it right, there are a lot of advantages to have a centralized team but at some point it may make sense to actually decentralized here and at this point right? If you think about data Mash, you have to recognize that you're not building something on a green field. And I think there's a big learning which is also reflected here on the slide is don't underestimate your baggage. It's typically you come to a point where the old model doesn't doesn't broke anymore and has had a fresh right? We lost our trust in our data and actually we have seen certain risks that we're slowing down our innovation so we triggered that this was triggering the need to actually change something. So this transition implies that you typically have a lot of technical debt accumulated over years and I think what we have learned is that potentially we have decentralized some assets to earlier, this is not actually taking into account the maturity of the team where we are actually distributed to and now we actually in the face of correcting pieces of that one. Right? But I think if you if you if you start from scratch you have to understand, okay, is are my team is actually ready for taking on this new uh, this news capabilities and you have to make sure that business decentralization, you build up these >>capabilities and the >>teams and as Clements has mentioned, right, make sure that you take the people on your journey. I think these are the pieces that also here, it comes with this knowledge gap, right? That we need to think about hiring and literacy the technical depth I just talked about and I think the last piece that I would add now which is not here on the flight deck is also from our perspective, we started on the analytical layer because that's kind of where things are exploding, right, this is the thing that people feel the pain but I think a lot of the efforts that we have started to actually modernize the current state uh, towards data product towards data Mash. We've understood that it always comes down basically to a proper shape of our operational plane and I think what needs to happen is is I think we got through a lot of pains but the learning here is this need to really be a commitment from the company that needs to happen and to act. >>I think that point that last point you made it so critical because I I hear a lot from the vendor community about how they're gonna make analytics better and that's that's not unimportant, but but through data product thinking and decentralized data organizations really have to operationalize in order to scale. So these decisions around data architecture an organization, their fundamental and lasting, it's not necessarily about an individual project are why they're gonna be project sub projects within this architecture. But the architectural decision itself is an organizational, its cultural and what's the best approach to support your business at scale. It really speaks to to to what you are, who you are as a company, how you operate and getting that right, as we've seen in the success of data driven driven companies is yields tremendous results. So I'll ask each of you to give give us your final thoughts and then we'll wrap maybe >>maybe it quickly, please. Yeah, maybe just just jumping on this piece that you have mentioned, right, the target architecture. If we talk about these pieces right, people often have this picture of mind like OK, there are different kind of stages, we have sources, we have actually ingestion layer, we have historical transformation presentation layer and then we're basically putting a lot of technology on top of that kind of our target architecture. However, I think what we really need to make sure is that we have these different kind of viewers, right? We need to understand what are actually the capabilities that we need in our new goals. How does it look and feel from the different kind of personas and experience view? And then finally, that should actually go to the to the target architecture from a technical perspective um maybe just to give an outlook but what we're what we're planning to do, how we want to move that forward. We have actually based on our strategy in the in the sense of we would like to increase that to maturity as a whole across the entire company and this is kind of a framework around the business strategy and it's breaking down into four pillars as well. People meaning the data, cultural, data literacy, data organizational structure and so on that. We're talking about governance as Clements has actually mentioned that, right, compliance, governance, data management and so on. You talk about technology and I think we could talk for hours for that one. It's around data platform, better science platform and then finally also about enablement through data, meaning we need to understand that a quality data accessibility and the science and data monetization. >>Great, thank you christophe clement. Once you bring us home give us your final thoughts. >>Can't can just agree with christoph that uh important is to understand what kind of maturity people have to understand what the maturity level, where the company where where people organization is and really understand what does kind of some kind of a change replies to that those four pillars for example, um what needs to be taken first and this is not very clear from the very first beginning of course them it's kind of like Greenfield you come up with must wins to come up with things that we really want to do out of theory and out of different white papers. Um only if you really start conducting the first initiatives you do understand. Okay, where we have to put the starts together and where do I missed out on one of those four different pillars? People, process technology and governance. Right? And then that kind of an integration. Doing step by step, small steps by small steps not boiling the ocean where you're capable ready to identify the gaps and see where either you can fill um the gaps are where you have to increase maturity first and train people or increase your text text, >>you know Hello Fresh is an excellent example of a company that is innovating. It was not born in Silicon Valley which I love. It's a global company. Uh and I gotta ask you guys, it seems like this is an amazing place to work you guys hiring? >>Yes, >>definitely. We do >>uh as many rights as was one of these aspects distributing. And actually we are hiring as an entire company specifically for data. I think there are a lot of open roles serious. Please visit or our page from better engineering, data, product management and Clemens has a lot of rules that you can speak about. But yes >>guys, thanks so much for sharing with the cube audience, your, your pioneers and we look forward to collaborations in the future to track progress and really want to thank you for your time. >>Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Dave >>thank you for watching the cubes startup showcase made possible by A W. S. This is Dave Volonte. We'll see you next time. >>Yeah.

>>from >>around the globe. It's the cube with digital >>Coverage of IBM think 2021 brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to IBM Think 2021 The virtual edition. My name is Dave Volonte and you're watching the cubes continuous coverage of think 21. And right now we're gonna talk about banking in the post isolation economy. I'm very pleased to welcome our next guest. Look at wag lee is the general manager, Global banking financial markets at IBM and john Degnan is the global ceo and vice president and distinguished engineer for banking and financial services. Gentlemen, welcome to the cube. >>Thank you. Yeah >>that's my pleasure. Look at this current economic upheaval. It's quite a bit different from the last one, isn't it? I mean liquidity doesn't seem to be a problem for most pecs these days. I mean if anything they're releasing loan loss reserves that they didn't need. What's from your perspective, what's the state of banking today and hopefully as we exit this pandemic soon. >>So so dave, I think, like you say, it's, you know, it's a it's a state and a picture that in a significantly different from what people were expecting. And I think some way, in some ways you're seeing the benefits of a number of the regulations that were put into into place after the, you know, the financial crisis last time around, right? And therefore this time, you know, a health crisis did not become a financial crisis, because I think the banks were in better shape. And also, you know, governments clearly have put worldwide a lot of liquidity into the, into the system. I think if you look at it though, maybe two or three things ready to call out firstly, there's a there's a massive regional variation. So if you look at the U. S. Banking industry, it's extremely buoyant and I'll come back to that in a minute in the way in which is performing, you know, the banks that are starting to report their first quarter results are going to show profitability. That's you know significantly ahead of where they were last year and probably some of the some of their best performance for quite a long time. If you go into europe, it's a completely different picture. I think the banks are extremely challenged out there and I think you're going to see a much bleaker outlook in terms of what those banks report and as far as Asia pacific is concerned again, you know because they they have come out of the pandemic much faster than consumer businesses back into growth. Again, I think they're showing some pretty buoyant performance as far as as far as banking performance is concerned. I think the piece that's particularly interesting and I think him as a bit of a surprise to most is what we've seen in the U. S. Right. And in the US what's actually happened is uh the investment banking side of banking businesses has been doing better than they've ever done before. There's been the most unbelievable amount of acquisition activity. You've seen a lot of what's going on with this facts that's driving deal raised, you know, deal based fee income for the banks. The volatility in the marketplace is meaning that trading income is much much higher than it's ever been. And therefore the banks are very much seeing a profitability on that investment banking side. That was way ahead of what I think they were. They were expecting consumer businesses definitely down. If you look at the credit card business, it's down. If you look at, you know, lending activity that's going down going out is substantially less than where it was before. There's hardly any lending growth because the economy clearly is flat at this moment in time. But again, the good news that, and I think this is a worldwide which are not just in us, the good news here is that because of the liquidity and and some of the special measures the government put out there, there has not been the level of bankruptcies that people were expecting, right. And therefore most of the provisioning that the banks did um in expectation of non performing loans has been, I think, a much more, much greater than what they're going to need, which is why you're starting to see provisions being released as well, which are kind of flattering, flattering the income, flattering the engine. I think going forward that you're going to see a different picture >>is the re thank you for the clarification on the regional divergence, is that and you're right on, I mean, european central banks are not the same, the same position uh to to affect liquidity. But is that nuances that variation across the globe? Is that a is that a blind spot? Is that a is that a concern or the other other greater concerns? You know, inflation and and and the the pace of the return to the economy? What are your thoughts on that? >>So, I think, I think the concern, um, you know, as far as the european marketplace is concerned is um you know, whether whether the performance that and particularly, I don't think the level of provisions in there was quite a generous, as we saw in other parts of the world, and therefore, you know, is the issue around non performing loans in in europe, going to hold the european uh european banks back? And are they going to, you know, therefore, constrain the amount of lending that they put into the economy and that then, um, you know, reduces the level of economic growth that we see in europe. Right? I think, I think that is certainly that is certainly a concern. Um I would be surprised and I've been looking at, you know, forecasts that have been put forward by various people around the world around inflation. I would be surprised if inflation starts to become a genuine problem in the, in the kind of short to medium term, I think in the industry that are going to be two or three other things that are probably going to be more, you know, going to be more issues. Right. I think the first one which is becoming top of mind for chief executives, is this whole area around operational resiliency. So, you know, regulators universally are making very very sure that banks do not have a technical debt or a complexity of legacy systems issue. They are and you know, the U. K. Has taken the lead on this and they are going so far as even requiring non executive directors to be liable if banks are found to not have the right policies in place. This is now being followed by other regulators around the world. Right. So so that is very much drop in mind at this moment in time. So I think discretionary investment is going to be put you know, towards solving that particular problem. I think that's that's one issue. I think the other issue is what the pandemic has shown is that and and and this was very evident to me and I mean I spent the last three years out in Singapore where you know, banks have become very digital businesses. Right? When I came into the U. S. In my current role, it was somewhat surprising to me as to where the U. S. Market place was in terms of digitization of banking. But if you look in the last 12 months, you know, I think more has been achieved in terms of banks becoming digital businesses and they've probably done in the last two or three years. Right. And that the real acceleration of that digitization which is going to continue to happen. But the downside of that has been that the threat to the banking industry from essentially fintech and big tex has exactly, it's really accelerated. Right, Right. Just to give you an example, Babel is the second largest financial services institutions in the US. Right. So that's become a real problem I think with the banking industry is going to have to deal with >>and I want to come back to that. But now let's bring john into the conversation. Let's talk about the tech stack. Look, it was talking about whether it was resiliency going digital, We certainly saw over the pandemic, remote work, huge, huge volumes of things like TPP and and and and and mortgages and with dropping rates, etcetera. So john, how is the tech stack Been altered in the past 14 months? >>Great question. Dave. And it's top of mind for almost every single financial services firm, regardless of the sector within the overall industry, every single business has been taking stock of how they handled the pandemic and the economic conditions thereafter and all of the business needs that were driven by the pandemic. In so many situations, firms were unable to service their clients or we're not competitive in serving their clients. And as a result they've had to do very deep uh architectural transformation and digital transformation around their core platforms. Their systems of analytics and their systems different end systems of engagement In terms of the core processing systems that many of these institutions, some in many cases there are 50 years old And with any 50 year old application platform there are inherent limitations. There's an in flex itty inflexibility. There's an inability to innovate for the future. There's a speed of delivery issue. In other words, it can be very hard to accelerate the delivery of new capabilities onto an aging platform. And so in every single case um institutions are looking to hybrid cloud and public cloud technology and pre packaged a ai and prepackaged solutions from an I. S. V. Ecosystem of software vendor ecosystem to say. As long as we can crack open many of these old monolithic cause and surround them with new digitalization, new user experience that spans every channel and automation from the front to back of every interaction. That's where most institutions are prioritizing. >>Banks aren't going to migrate, they're gonna they're gonna build an abstraction layer. I want to come back to the disruption is so interesting. The coin base I. P. O. Last month see Tesla and microstrategy. They're putting Bitcoin on their balance sheets. Jamie diamonds. Traditional banks are playing a smaller role in the financial system because of the new fin text. Look at, you mentioned Paypal, the striped as Robin Hood, you get the Silicon Valley giants have this dual disrupt disruption agenda. Apple amazon even walmart facebook. The question is, are traditional banks going to lose control of the payment systems? >>Yeah. I mean I think to a large extent that is that has already happened, right? Because I think if you look at, you know, if you look at the experience in ASia, right? And you look at particularly organizations like and financial, you know, in India, you look at organizations like A T. M. You know, very substantial chance, particularly on the consumer payments side has actually moved away from the banks. And I think you're starting to see that in the west as well, right? With organizations like, you know, cloud, No, that's coming out with this, you know, you know, buying out a later type of schemes. You've got great. Um, and then so you've got paper and as you said, strike, uh and and others as well, but it's not just, you know, in the payment side. Right. I think, I think what's starting to happen is that there are very core part of the banking business. You know, especially things like lending for instance, where again, you are getting a number of these Frontex and big, big tech companies entering the marketplace. And and I think the threat for the banks is this is not going to be small chunks of market share that you're going to actually lose. Right? It's it's actually, it could actually be a Kodak moment. Let me give you an example. Uh, you know, you will have just seen that grab is going to be acquired by one of these facts for about $40 billion. I mean, this organization started like the Uber in Singapore. It very rapidly got into both the payment site. Right? So it actually went to all of these moment pop shops and then offered q are based um, 12 code based payment capabilities to these very small retailers, they were charging about half or a third or world Mastercard or Visa were charging to run those payment rails. They took market share overnight. You look at the Remittance business, right? They went into the Remittance business. They set up these wallets in 28 countries around the Asean region. They took huge chunks of business completely away from DBS, which is the local bank out there from Western Union and all of these, all of these others. So, so I think it's a real threat. I think Jamie Dimon is saying what the banking industry has said always right, which is the reason we're losing is because the playing field is not even, this is not about playing fields. Been even write, all of these businesses have been subject to exactly the same regulation that the banks are subject to. Regulations in Singapore and India are more onerous than maybe in other parts of the world. This is about the banking business, recognizing that this is a threat and exactly as john was saying, you've got to get to delivering the customer experience that consumers are wanting at the level of cost that they're prepared to pay. And you're not going to do that by purely sorting out the channels and having a cool app on somebody's smartphone, Right? If that's not funny reported by arcade processes and legacy systems when I, you know, like, like today, you know, you make a payment, your payment does not clear for five days, right? Whereas in Singapore, I make a payment. The payment is instantaneously clear, right? That's where the banking system is going to have to get to. In order to get to that. You need to water the whole stack. And the really good news is that many examples where this has been done very successfully by incumbent banks. You don't have to set up a digital bank on the site to do it. And incumbent bank can do it and it can do it in a sensible period of time at a sensible level of investment. A lot of IBM s business across our consulting as well as our technology stack is very much trying to do that with our clients. So I am personally very bullish about what the industry >>yeah, taking friction out of the system, sometimes with a case of crypto taking the middle person out of the system. But I think you guys are savvy, you understand that, you know, you yeah, Jamie Diamond a couple years ago said he'd fire anybody doing crypto Janet Yellen and says, I don't really get a Warren Buffett, but I think it's technology people we look at and say, okay, wait a minute. This is an interesting Petri dish. There's, there's a fundamental technology here that has massive funding that is going to inform, you know, the future. And I think, you know, big bags are gonna lean in some of them and others, others won't john give you the last word here >>for sure, they're leaning in. Uh so to just to to think about uh something that lick it said a moment ago, the reason these startups were able to innovate fast was because they didn't have the legacy, They didn't have the spaghetti lying around. They were able to be relentlessly laser focused on building new, using the app ecosystem going straight to public and hybrid cloud and not worrying about everything that had been built for the last 50 years or so. The benefit for existing institutions, the incumbents is that they can use all of the same techniques and tools and hybrid cloud accelerators in terms And we're not just thinking about uh retail banking here. Your question around the industry that disruption from Bitcoin Blockchain technologies, new ways of processing securities. It is playing out in every single securities processing and capital markets organization right now. I'm working with several organizations right now exactly on how to build custody systems to take advantage of these non fungible digital assets. It's a hard, hard topic around which there's an incredible appetite to invest. An incredible appetite to innovate. And we know that the center of all these technologies are going to be cloud forward cloud ready. Ai infused data infused technologies >>Guys, I want to have you back. I wish I had more time. I want to talk about SPAC. So I want to talk about N. F. T. S. I want to talk about technology behind all this. You really great conversation. I really appreciate your time. I'm sorry. We got to go. >>Thank you. Thanks very much indeed for having us. It was a real pleasure. >>Really. Pleasure was mine. Thank you for watching everybody's day. Volonte for IBM think 2021. You're watching the Cube. Mhm.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. Special coverage sponsored by AWS Global Partner Network. Hello, everyone. This is Dave Balanta. And welcome to the cubes Virtual coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 with a special focus on the A p N partner experience. I'm excited to have two great guests on the program. Fernando Castillo is the head s a p on AWS Partner Network and s A P Alliance and AWS and Stephen Jones is the general manager s a p E c to enterprise that aws Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. Great to see you. >>I'm here. >>So guys ASAP on AWS. It's a core workload for customers. I call it the poster child for mission Critical workloads and applications. Now a lot has happened since we last talked to you guys. So So tell us it. Maybe start with Stephen. What's going on with Sapna Ws? Give us the update. >>I appreciate the question Day. Look, a lot of customers continue to migrate. These mission critical workloads State of us on a good example is the U. S. Navy right? Who moved their entire recipe landscape European workload AWS. This is a very large system of support. Over 72,000 users across 66 different navy commands. They estimate that 70 billion worth of parts and goods actually transact through the system every year. Just just massive. Right? And this this type of adoptions continued to accelerate a very rapid clip. And today, over 5000 customers now are running SFP workloads. I need to be us on there really trusting us, uh, to to manage and run these workloads. And another interesting stat here is that more than half of these customers are actually running asap, Hana, which is a safe He's flagship in memory database. >>Right, Fernando, can you add to that? >>Sure. So definitely about, you know, the customs are also SCP themselves continue to lose a dollar less to run their own offerings. Right? So think about conquer SCP platform. SCP analytics were when new offers like Hannah Cloud. In addition to that, we continue to see the P and L despondent network to grow at an accelerated pace. Today we have over 60 SNP company partners all over the world helping SFP customers s O that customers are my green. There s appeal asking CW's. They only look for reduced costs, improved performance but also toe again access to new capabilities. So innovate around their core business systems and transform their businesses. >>So for now, I wonder if I could stay with you for a minute. I mean, the numbers that Steve was putting out there, it's just massive scale. So you obviously have a lot of data. So I'm wondering when you talk to these customers, Are you discerning any common patterns that are emerging? What are some of the things that you're hearing or seeing when you analyze the data? >>Sure. So just to give a couple example right. Our biggest customers are doing complete ASAP. Transformations on Toe s four Hana. Their chance they're going to these new S a p r p code nine All customers have immediate needs, and they're taking their existing assets to AWS, so looking to reduce costs and improve performance, but also to sell them apart for innovation. This innovation is something that operation or something that they can wait. They need it right now. It's they This time to innovate is now right on some of these customers saying that while s and P has nice apart. So that is a multi year process on most organizations and have a look from waiting for this just before they start innovating. So instead of that, they focus on bringing what they have on start innovating right away on Steve has some great stories around here, so maybe Steve can share with that. Goes with that? >>Yeah, that'd be great, Steve. >>Yeah. Look, I think a good example here on and Fernando touched it, touched on it. Well, right. So customers coming from all kind of different places in their journey aws as it relates to this this critical workload and some are looking to really reap the benefits of the investments they made over the last couple decades sometimes. And Vista is a really good example Here, um there a subsidiary of Cook Industries, they migrated and moved their existing S a P r P solution called E c C. To AWS. They estimate that this migration alone from an infrastructure cost savings perspective, has netted them about two million per year. Additionally, you know, they started to bring some of the other issues they were trying to solve from a business perspective, together now that they were on the on the on the business on the AWS platform. And one thing that recognizes they had different data silos, that they had been operating in an on premises world. Right? So massive factories solution and bringing all of that data together on a single platform on AWS and enriching that with the SCP data has allowed them to actually improve their forecasting supply chain processes across multiple data sources and the estimate that that is saving them additional millions per year. So again, customers are not necessarily waiting to innovate. Um, but actually moving forward now. >>All right, so I gotta ask, you don't hate me for asking this question, but but everybody talks about how great they are. Supporting s a P is It's one of the top, of course, because s a p, you know, huge player in the in the application space. So I want you guys to address how aws specifically compares Thio some of your competitors that are, you know, the hyper scaler specifically as it relates to supporting S a P workloads. What's the rial differential value that you guys bring? Maybe Steve, you could start >>Sure, you're probably getting to know us a little bit. Way don't focus a lot on competition, Aziz mentioned week We continue to see customers adopt AWS for S a p a really rapid clip. And that alone actually brings a lot of feedback back into how we consider our own service offerings as it relates to this particular workload on that, that's it. That's important signal right for what we're building. But customers do tell us the security performance availability matters, especially for this workload, which, you know, to be honest, is the backbone of many, many organizations. Right? And we understand why. And there was a study that was done recently about a. D. C. Where they found that even a single hour of unplanned downtime as a released this particular workload could cost millions. And so it's it's super important. And if you look at, um, you know, publicly available data from an average perspective, um, it has considerably less downtime than the other hyper scale is out there way. Take the performance and availability of oh, our entire global footprint and in this workload in particular, super important. >>Well, you know, that's a great point, Steve. I mean, if you got critical mission critical applications like ASAP supporting the business, that's driving revenue. It's driving productivity. The higher the value of the application, the greater the impact when it's down, I wonder, Fernando, you know, Steve said, You guys don't focus on the competition. Well, is an analyst. You know, I always focused on the competition, So I wonder if you're gonna add anything to that. >>Sure. So again, as you can imagine, multiple analyst called Space right. And, uh, everybody shares information. And analysts have agreed that Italy's clean infrastructure services, including the three quite a for CP across the globe. So we feel very humble and honor about this recognition on this encourages to continue to improve ourselves to give you a couple examples for a 10 year in a row. Italy's US evaluated as a leader in the century Gardner Magic Quadrant, right for cloud infrastructure from services. And, as you know, the measure to access right they measure very execute on complete, insufficient were the highest, both of them. Another third party, just not keep with one is icy, right? You know, technology research dreamers, you already you might know advice for famous Well, the reason they publisher s a p on infrastructure service provider lands reports long name which, basically, the analyzers providers were best suited to host s a. P s four hana workloads on more broadly s a p Hannah landscapes, you know, very large scape ASAP 100 landscapes. So they recognize it, at least for the third year in a row. And conservative right, the best class enterprise. Great infrastructure towards security performances, Steve mentioned, but also making the panic community secure. Differentiation. Andi, they posted. They mentioned it all us as a little position in quadrant for the U. S. U K France, Germany, the Nordics in Brazil. So again, really honor and humble on discontinued in court just to continue to improve. >>You know, Steve, I just wrote a piece on Cloud 2030 trying to project what the next 10 years is gonna look like in one of the I listed a lot of things, but one of the things I talked about was some of the technical factors like alternative processors, specialized networks, and you guys have have have really, always done a good job of sort of looking at purpose built, you know, stuff that that can run workloads faster. How relevant is that in the the S A P community? >>Oh, that's a great question, David. It's It's absolutely relevant. You take a look at what? What we've done over the years with nitro and how we've actually brought the ability for customers to run on environmental infrastructure but still have that integrated, uh, native cloud experience. Uh, that is absolutely applicable to Unless if you workload and we're actually able toe with that technology, bring the capability to customers to run thes mission critical workloads on instances with up to 24 terabytes of brand, albeit bare metal, but fully integrated into the AWS network fabric, >>right? I mean, a lot of people, you know, need that bare metal raw performance on, and that makes sense that you've been, you know, prioritize such an important class of workload. I'm not surprised that that I mean, the numbers that you threw out a pretty impressive eso. It's clear you're leading the charge here. Maybe you could share a little glimpse of what's coming in the future. Show us a little leg, Steve. >>Yeah, well, look, uh, we know that infrastructure is super important. Thio. Our customers and in particular the customers are running these mission critical workloads. But there's a lot of heavy lifting, uh, that that we also want to simplify. And so you've seen some indications of what we've done here over the years, uh, ice G that Fernando mentioned actually called out. AWS is differentiating here, right? So for for many years, we've actually been leading in releasing tools for customers to actually orchestrate and automate the deployment of these types of worthless so ASAP in particular. I mean, if you think about it a customer who is coming to a to a hyper scale platforms like AWS and having to learn what that means, Plus understand all the best practices from S, A, P and AWS to make that thing really shine from a performance and availability perspective, that's a heavy asked. Right? So we put a lot of work from a tooling perspective into into automating this and making this super simple not just for customers, but also partners. >>Anything you wanna chime in on that particular the partner side, Fernando. >>Sure. So this is super important for public community, right? As you can imagine, the tooling that we're bringing together toe. The market is helping the Spanish to move quicker, right? So they don't have to reinvent. They will all the time. They will just take this and move and take it and move forward. Give an example. One of our parents in New York, three hosts. Thanks for lunch. We start with Steve just reference right. They want to create work clothes in an automated way. Speeding up the delivery time. 75% corporation is every environments. So it just imagine the the impact of these eso a thing here that is important is our goal is to help customers and partners move quicker, removing any undifferentiated heavy lifting, right, Andi, that's kind of the mantra of this group. >>You know, when you think about what Doug Young was saying is in the keynote, um, the importance of partners and I've been on this kick about we've moved in this industry from products to platforms, and the next 10 years is gonna be about leveraging ecosystems. The power of many versus the resource is of a few or even one is large is a W s so so partners air critical on I wonder if you could talk toe the role that that the network partners air playing in affecting S a p customer outcomes and strategies. Maybe Steve, you could take that first. >>Yeah, but look, we recognize that the migration on the management of these systems it's complex, right? And for years, we've invested in a global community of partners many partners who have been fundamental to s a p customer success over over a couple decades, Right? And so, um, that there are some nuances that that need to be realized when it comes to running ASAP on on a hyper scale platforms like AWS. And so we put a lot of work into making sure these partners are equipped to ensure customers have have a really good experience. And I mean, in a recent conversation I had with a CEO of a large, uh, CPG company, he told me he reflected that the partners really are the glue. That kind of brings it all together for them. And, uh, you know, just to share something with you today, our partners, our partner community network for S. If he is actually helping over 90% of net new customers who are coming toe migrate as if you were close to AWS, so they're just absolutely critical. >>So, Fernando, there's the m word, the migration, you know, it's you don't want to unless you have to, but people have to move to the cloud. So So what can you add to this conversation? >>Sure, they So again, just to echo what Steve mentioned, right? Uh, migration. Super important. We have ah group of partners that are right now specializing in migration projects. And they have built migration factories. You may have seen some of them. They have been doing press releases through the whole year saying that they're part of these and their special cells they're bringing to the helping customers adopt AWS. So they go through the next, you know, very detailed process. We call them map for ASAP partners. So they have these incremental value on top of being SCP competent funds, which I referred earlier on. This group has, as mentioned, you know, show additional capability to safeguard these migrations on. Of course, we appreciate and respect and we have put investment programs for them to help them support their own customers right in those in these migrations. But because the SNP ecosystem on it. But it's not about only migrations, right? One important topic that we need technologies as you as Steve mentioned, we have these great set of partner of customers have trusted us or 5000 through a year on these, uh, these customers asking for innovation right there, asking us how come the ecosystem help us innovate faster? So these partners are using a dollars a plan off innovation, creating new solutions that are relevant for SCP. So basically helping customers modernize their business processes so you can take an example like Accenture Data Accelerator writers taking SCP information and data legs Really harm is the power of data there or the Lloyd you know, kinetic finances helping, you know, deploy Central finance, which is a key component of SCP, or customer like partners like syntax that has created our industrial i o. T. Offering that connects with the SNP core. So more and more you will see thes ecosystem partners innovating on AWS to support SNP customers. >>You know, I think that's such an important point because for for decades have been around for a while. It's the migrations air like this. Oftentimes there's forced March because maybe a vendor is not going to support it anymore. Or you're just trying to, you know, squeeze Mawr costs out of the lemon. What you guys are talking about is leveraging an ecosystem for innovation and again that ties into the themes that we're talking about about Cloud 2030 in the next decade of innovation. Let's close, guys. What can customers ASAP customers AWS customers expect from reinvent this year? Um, you know, maybe more broadly, what can they expect from A W S in the coming 12 months? Maybe, Steve, you could give us a sense, and then Fernando could bring us home. >>You bet. Look, um, this year we've really tried to focus on customer stories, right? So we've we've optimized. There's a number of sessions here agreement this year. We want customers and partners to learn from other from other customer experiences, so customers will be able to listen to Bristol Myers Squibb talk about their performance, their their experiences, Alando Newmont's and Volkswagen. And I'll be talking about kind of different places where they are on this, this journey to cloud and this innovation life cycle, right, because it really is about choice and what's right for their business. So we're pretty excited about that. >>Yeah. Nice mix of representative Industries there. I Fernando bring us home, please. >>Sure. So, again, we think about 21 in the future. Rest assured, we'll continue to invest heavily to make sure it values remains the platform innovation. Right on choice for recipe customers where a customer wants to move their existing investments on continue to add value. So what they have already done for years or goto export transformation. We're here to support their choice. Right? And we're committed to that as part of our customers Asian culture. So we're super excited about the future. And we're thankful for you to spend time with us today. >>Great, guys, Look, these are the most demanding workloads we're seeing that that rapid movement to the cloud is just gonna accelerate over the coming years. Thanks so much for coming on The Cube. Really appreciate it. >>Our pleasure. Thank >>you. All >>right. Thank you for watching everyone keep it right there from or great content. You're watching the cube aws reinvent 2020

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel and AWS. Yeah, welcome back to the Cubes. Live coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. It's virtual this year over three weeks. Next three weeks we're here on the ground, covering all the live action. Hundreds of videos Walter Wall coverage were virtual not in person this year. So we're bringing all the interviews remote. We have Deepak Singh, vice president of Compute Services. A range of things within Amazon's world. He's the container guy. He knows all what's going on with open source. Deepak, great to see you again. Sorry, we can't be in person, but that's the best we could do. Thanks for coming on. And big keynote news all year all over the keynote. Your DNA is everywhere in the keynote. Thanks for coming on. >>Yeah. Now, no thanks for having me again. It's always great to be on the Cube. Unfortunately, not sitting in the middle of the floral arrangement, which I kind of miss. I know, but it waas great morning for us. We had a number of announcements in the container space and sort of adjacent to that in the developer and operator experience space about making it easy for people to adopt things like containers and serverless. So we're pretty excited about. And his keynote today and the rest agreement. >>It's interesting, You know, I've been following Amazon. Now start a three invent. I've been using Amazon since easy to started telling that garment that story. But you look like the mainstream market right now. This is a wake up call for Cloud. Um, mainly because the pandemic has been forced upon everybody. I talked to Andy about that he brought up in the keynote, but you start to get into the meat on the bone here. When you're saying OK, what does it really mean? The containers, the server Lis, Uh, the machine learning all kind of tied together with computers getting faster. So you see an absolute focus of infrastructures of service, which has been the bread and butter for Amazon web services. But now that kinda you know, connective tissue between where the machine learning kicks in. This is where I see containers and lambda and serve Earless really kicking ass and and really fill in the hole there because that's really been the innovation story and containers air all through that and the eks anywhere was to me the big announcement because it shows Amazon's wow vision of taking Amazon to the edge to the data center. This is a big important announcement. Could you explain E. K s anywhere? Because I think this is at the heart of where customers are looking to go to its where the puck is going. You're skating to where the puck is. Explain the importance of eks anywhere. >>Yeah, I'll actually step back. And I talked about a couple of things here on I think some of the other announcements you heard today like the smaller outposts, uh, you know, the one you and do you outpost skills are also part of that story. So I mean, if you look at it, AWS started thinking about what will it take for us to be successful in customers data centers a few years ago? Because customers still have data centers, they're still running there On our first step towards that Waas AWS in many ways benefits a lot from the way we build hardware. How what we do with nitro all the way to see C two instance types that we have. What we have a GPS on our post waas. Can we bring some of the core fundamental properties that AWS has into a customer data center, which then allowed PCs any KS and other AWS services to be run on output? Because that's how we run today. But what we started hearing from customers waas That was not enough for two reasons. One, not all of them have big data centers. They may want to run things on, you know, in a much smaller location. I like to think about things like oil rates of point of sale places, for they may have existing hardware that they still plan to use and intend to use for a very long time with the foundational building blocks easy to EBS. Those get difficult when we go on to hardware. That is not a W s hardware because be very much depend on that. But it containers we know it's possible. So we started thinking about what will it take for us to bring the best of AWS toe help customers run containers in their own data center, so I'll start with kubernetes, so with que binaries. People very often pick Kubernetes because they start continue rising inside their own data centers. And the best solution for them is Cuban Aires. So they learn it very well. They understand it, their organizations are built around it. But then they come to AWS and run any chaos. And while communities is communities, if you're running upstream, something that runs on Prem will run on AWS. They end up in two places in sort of two situations. One, they want to work with AWS. They want to get our support. They want to get our expertise second, most of them once they start running. Eks realized that we have a really nice operational posture of a D. K s. It's very reliable. It scales. They want to bring that same operational posture on Prem. So with the ts anywhere what we decided to do Waas start with the bits underlying eks. The eks destroyed that we announced today it's an open source communities distribution with some additional pieces that that we had some of the items that we use that can be run anywhere. They're not dependent on AWS. You don't even have be connected to a W s to use eks destro, but we will Patrick. We will updated. It's an open source project on get help. So that's a starting point that's available today. No, Over the next several months, what will add is all of the operational to link that we have from chaos, we will make available on premises so that people can operate the Cuban and these clusters on Prem just the way they do on AWS. And then we also announced the U. K s dashboard today which gives you visibility into our communities clusters on AWS, and we'll extend that so that any communities clusters you're running will end up on the dashboard to get a single view into what's going on. And that's the vision for eks anywhere, which is if you're running communities. We have our operational approach to running it. We have a set of tools that we're gonna that we have built. We want everybody to have access to the same tools and then moving from wherever you are to aws becomes super easy cause using the same tooling. We did something similar with the C s as well the DCs anywhere. But we did it a little bit differently. Where in the CSU was centralized control plane and all we want for you is to bring a CPU and memory. The demo for that actually runs in a bunch of raspberry PiS. So as long as you can install the C s agent and connect to an AWS region, you're good to go. So same problem. Different, slightly different solutions. But then we are customers fall into both buckets. So that's that's the general idea is when we say anywhere it means anywhere and we'll meet you there >>and then data centers running the case in the data center and cloud all good stuff. The other thing that came out I want you to explain is the importance of what Andy was getting to around this notion of the monolith versus Micro Services at one slightly put up. And that's where he was talking about Lambda and Containers for smaller compute loads. What does it mean? What was he talking about there? Explain what he means by that >>that Z kind of subtle and quite honestly, it's not unique to London containers. That's the way the world was going, except that with containers and with several functions with panda. You got this new small building blocks that allow you to do it that much better. So you know you can break your application off. In the smaller and smaller pieces, you can have teams that own each of those individual pieces each other pieces. Each of these services can be built using architecture that you secret, some of them makes sense. Purely service, land and media gateway. Other things you may want to run on the C s and target. Ah, third component. You may have be depending on open source ecosystem of applications. And there you may want to run in communities. So what you're doing is taking up what used to be one giant down, breaking up into a number of constituent pieces, each of which is built somewhat independently or at least can be. The problem now is how do you build the infrastructure where the platform teams of visibility in tow, what all the services are they being run properly? And also, how do you scale this within an organization, you can't train an entire organ. Communities overnight takes time similar with similarly with server list eso. That's kind of what I was talking about. That's where the world is going. And then to address that specific problem we announced AWS proton, uh, AWS program is essentially a service that allows you to bring all of these best practices together, allows the centralized team, for example, to decide what are the architectures they want to support. What are the tools that they want to support infrastructure escort, continuous delivery, observe ability. You know all the buzzwords, but that's where the world's going and then give them a single framework where they can deploy these and then the developers can come into self service. It's like I want to build a service using Lambda. I don't even learn how toe put it all together. I'm just gonna put my coat and pointed at this stock that might centralized team has built for me. All I need to do is put a couple of parameters, um, and I'm off to the races and not scale it to end, and it gives you the ability to manage also, So >>it's really kind of the building blocks pushing that out to the customer. I gotta ask you real quick on the proton. That's a fully managed service created best. Could you explain what that means for the developer customer? What's the bottom line? What's the benefit to >>them? So the biggest benefit of developers if they don't need to become an expert at every single technology out there, they can focus on writing application court, not have to learn how to crawl into structure and how pipelines are built and what are the best practices they could choose to do. So the developers, you know, modern and companies Sometimes developers wear two hats and the building off, the sort of underlying scaffolding and the and the build applications for application development. Now all you have to do is in writing an application code and then just go into a proton and say, This is architecture, that I'm going to choose your self, service it and then you're off to the races. If there's any underlying component that's changing, or any updates are coming on, put on it automatically take care off updates for you or give you a signal that says, Hey, the stock has to be updated first time to redeploy accord so you can do all of that in a very automated fashion. That's why everything is done. Infrastructures Gold. It's like a key, uh, infrastructure and told us, and continuous delivery of sort of key foundational principles off put on. And what they basically do is doing something that every company that we talked oh wants to do. But only a handful have the teams and the skill set to do that. It takes a lot of work and it takes ah lot of retraining. And now most companies don't need to do that. Or at least not in that here. So I think this is where the automation and manageability that brings makes life a lot easier. >>Yeah, a lot of drugs. No docker containers. They're very familiar with it. They want to use that. Whatever. Workflow. Quickly explain again to me so I can understand fully the benefit of the lamb container dynamic. Because what was the use case there? What's the problem that you solve? And what does it mean for the developer? What specifically is going on there? What's the What's the benefit? Why would I care? >>Yeah, eso I'll actually talked about one of the services that my team runs called it of your stature. AWS batch has a front time that's completely serverless. It's Lambda and FBI did play its back in the PCs running on the city right? That's the better the back end services run on their customers. Jobs in the running. Our customers are just like that. You know, we have many customers out there that are building services that are either completely service, but they fit that pattern. They are triggered by events. They're taking an event from something and then triggering a bunch of services or their triggering an action which is doing some data processing. And then they have these long running services, which almost universally in our running on containment. How do you bring all of this together into a single framework, as opposed to some people being experts on Lambda and some people being experts and containers? That's not how the real world works. So trying to put all of this because these teams do work together into a single framework was our goal, because that's what we see our customers doing, and I think they'll they'll do it. More related to that is the fact that Lambda now supports Dr Images containing images as a packaging format because a lot of companies have invested in tooling, toe build container images and our land. I can benefit from that as well. While customers get all the, you know, magic, The Lambda brings you >>a couple of years ago on this on the Cube. I shared this tweet out earlier in the week. Andy, we pressed and even services launches like, would you launch build Amazon on Lamb? Day says we probably would. And then he announced to me And he also I think you mentioned the keynote that half of Amazon's new APS are built on lambda. >>Yeah, that's good. This >>is a new generation of developers. >>Oh, absolutely. I mean, you should talk to the Lambda today also, but even like even in the container side, almost half of the new container customers that we have on AWS in 2020 have chosen target, which is serverless containers. They're not picking E c s or E. T. S and running at least two. They're running it on target the vast majority of those two PCs, but we see that trend on the container side as well, and actually it's accelerating. More and more and more new customers will pick target, then running containers on the city. >>Deepak, great to chat with you. I know you gotta go. Thanks for coming on our program. Breaking down the keynote analysis. You've got a great, um, focus area is only going to get hotter and grow faster and a lot more controversy and goodness coming at the same time. So congratulations. >>Thank you. And always good to be here. >>Thanks for coming on. This is the Cube Virtual. We are the Cube. Virtual. I'm John for your host. Thanks for watching.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. Everyone welcome back to the cubes coverage of a Davis reinvent 2020. It's a virtual conference this year. This is the Cube virtual. I'm John for your host. We're not in person this year. We're doing it remote because of the pandemic, but it's gonna be wall to wall coverage for three weeks. We've got you covered. And we got a great interview signature interview here with Two Cube alumni's Matt Garment, vice president of sales and marketing at AWS, formerly head of the C two and, of course, Sanjay Poon in CEO of VM Ware. Both distinguished guests and alumni of the Cube. Good to see you, Sanjay. Matt. Thanks for coming on. Uh, let's just jump into it. How are you guys doing? >>Great. Exciting. Excited for reinvent and, uh, excited for the conversation. So thanks for having us on. >>Yeah, I'm great to be here. We are allowed to be 6 ft away from each other, so I came in, but super excited about the partnership. Matt and I have been friends for several years on. You were so excited about another reinvent, the different circumstances doing all virtual. But it's a fantastic partnership. >>You know, I look forward to reinvent one of my most favorite times of the year, and it's also kind of stressful because it's backs up against Thanksgiving. And but, you know, you get through it, you have your turkey and you do the Friday and you guys probably Kino, perhaps, and all things going on and then you go to Vegas is a few celebration. We're not doing it this year. Three weeks eso There's gonna be a lot of big content in the first week, and we're gonna roll that out. We're gonna cover it, But it's gonna be a different celebrations so mad. I know you're in front center on this, Uh, just real quick. What are what do you expect people to be doing on the system? What's your expectations and how is this all going to play out? >>Yeah, you know, it's gonna be different, but I think we have Justus much exciting news as ever. And, you know, it's gonna be over a three week period. I think it actually gives people an opportunity to Seymour things. I think a lot of times we heard from, uh, from customers before was they love the excitement of being in Vegas, and we're not gonna be able to exactly replicate that, but But we have a lot of exciting things planned, and it'll enables customers to get two more sessions Seymour of the content and really see more of the exciting things that are coming out of AWS. And there's a lot s over the three weeks I encourage folks toe to dive in and really learn things is a This is the opportunity for customers to learn about the cloud and and some really cool things coming out. We're excited. >>Well, congratulations on all the business performs. I know that there's been a tailwind with the pandemic as people wanna go faster and smarter with cloud and on premise and Sanjay, you guys have a great results as well. Before I get into some of my point. Of course, I have a lot of I know we don't a lot of time, but I want to get a nup date on the relationship we covered in three years ago when, uh, Andy Jassy and team came down to San Francisco with Pat Gelsinger, Raghu, Sanjay. All this went down. There were skeptics. Relationship has proven to be quite strong and successful for both parties because you guys take a minute so you will start with you and talk about the relationship update. Where you guys at, What's the status? The relationship people want to know. >>Yeah, I think John, the relationship is going really well. Uh, it's rooted in first off, a clear understanding that there's value for customers. Um, this is the best of the public cloud in the private cloud in a hybrid cloud journey. And then, secondly, a deep engineering effort. This wasn't a Barney announcement. We both decided Matt in his previous role, was running a lot of the engineering efforts. Uh, we were really keen to make this a deep engineering effort, and often when we have our connected Cube ers, we're doing one little later this afternoon. I often can't tell when a Amazon personal speaking when a VM ware person speaking we're so connected both the engineering and then the go to market efforts. And I think after the two or three years that the the solution has had to just state and now we have many, many customers started to get real value. The go to market side of the operations really starting take off. So we're very excited about it. It is the preferred and the best offering. We think in the market, Um, and for Vienna, where customers. We message it as the best place for Vienna workload that's running on V sphere to move into Amazon. >>Matt, what's your take on the relationship update from your >>standpoint, I agree with Sanjay. I think it's been it's been fantastic. I think like you said, some folks were skeptical when we first announced it. But But, you know, we knew that there was something there and I think as we've gotten even deeper into this partnership, Onda figured out how we can continue Thio integrate more deeply both with on Prem and into the cloud. Our customers have really guided us and I think that's that's enabled us to further strengthen that partnership, and customers continue to get more excited when they see how easy it is to move and operate their VM where in their V sphere workloads inside of a W S on how it integrates well with the AWS environment, Um on they can still use all of the same functions and capabilities that they they built their business on the inside of the sphere. We're seeing bigger and bigger customers really just embrace us, and the partnerships only grown stronger. I think you know, Sanjay and I, we do joint sales calls together. I think that the business has really, really grown. It's been it's been a fantastic partnership. >>I was talking about that yesterday with being where in eight of us teams members as well. I want to get your thoughts on this cultural fit. Sanjay mentioned e think the engineering cultures air there. The also the corporate culture, both customer focused. Remember Andy Jassy told me, Hey, we're customer focused like you're making big. You make big, big statements Public Cloud and now he goes toe hybrid. He's very reactive to the customers and this is a cultural thing for me, was an VM where what are the customers saying to you now? What are you working backwards from this year? Because there's a lot to work backwards from. You got the pandemic. You got clear trends around at modernization automation under the covers, if you will. And you got VM Ware successful software running on their cloud on AWS. You got other customers. Matt, what's the big trends right now that are highlighted in your in your world? >>Yeah, it's a good question. And I think you know, it really does highlight the strength of this this hybrid model, I think, you know, pre pandemic. We had huge numbers of customers, obviously kind of looking at the cloud, but some of the largest enterprises in the world, in the more traditional enterprises, they really weren't doing a lot, you know, they were tipping their toes in, and some of the forward leaning enterprises were being really aggressive about getting into the cloud. But, you know, many people were just, you know, kind of hesitant or kind of telling, saying, Yes, we'll go learn about the cloud. I think as soon as the pandemic hit, we're really starting to see some of those more traditional enterprises realize it's a business imperative for them. Toe have ah, big cloud strategy and to move there quickly, and I I think our partnership with VM Ware and the VMC offering really is allowing many of these large enterprises to do that. And we see we see big traditional enterprise is really accelerating that move into the cloud. It gives them the business agility they need that allows them to operate their environment in uncertain world that allows them to operate remotely on DSO. We're seeing all of those trends, and I think I think we're going to continue to see the acceleration of our joint business. >>Sanjay, your thoughts. Virtualization has hit ah, whole nother level. It's not like server virtualization like it's cultural, it's societal. What's your take? >>Yeah, I think you know, virtualization is that fabric that connects the private cloud to the public cloud. It's the basis for a lot of the public cloud infrastructure. So when we listen to customers, I think the first kind of misconception we had to help them with was that it had to be choice between one or the other and being able to take Vienna Cloud, which was basically compute storage networking management and put that into the bare metal capabilities of AWS, an engineer deep into the stack and all the services that Matt and the engineering team were able to provide to us now allows that sort of application that sitting on premise to move like a house on wheels into a W s. And that's a beautiful experience we've even shown in in conferences, like a virtual reality moving of a workload, throwing a workload into a W s and a W s catches it. It's a good metaphor in a good way to think of those things that VM were like like the most playing the customers like like the emotional moves nicely. But then the other a misconception we had thio kind of illustrate to our customers was that you could once you were there, uh, let's take that metaphor. The house and wheels renovate the house with all the I think there's probably $200 services that Amazon AWS has. Um, all of a I data services be I I o t. Whatever. You have all the things that Andy and Matt kind of talk about in any of the reinvents. You get to participate and build on those services so it has. It's not like you take this there, and then it's sort of a dead end. You get to modernize your app after you migrated. So this migrate and modernize motion is something that we really start to reinforce with our customers, and it doesn't matter which one you do. First, you may modernize first and then migrate or migrate first and modernize. And in the modernized parts we've also made some significant investments and containers and Tan Xue. We could talk about that at this time and optimizing that for both the private cloud world and the public cloud world like Amazon. >>You know, Matt, this is something that we're talking about a lot this week. These few weeks with reinvent going on this everything is a service trend has a lot of things under it, like automation. Higher level services. One of the critics would say, Three years ago, when this announcement relationship between VM Ware enables came out was, Oh, Amazon's is going to steal all of their customers and VM we're screwed. Turns out that's not the case. You guys are both winning and rising. Tide floats all boats because VM Ware has an operator kind of market. People are operating their business with VM ware and they're adding higher level services with Cloud native, So it Xan overall win, so that was proven false. So clearly the new trend You guys are gaining a large enterprises that wanna go faster, have that existing operator kind of legacy stuff or pre conditions of the enterprise like VM ware. So how do you guide the technology teams and how do you look at this? Because this is where customers are like saying, Hey, I cannot operate my business house on wheels, modernize it in real time, come out a covert with the growth strategy and go faster your interview on all that. >>So I think you're exactly right. I think we see a lot of customers who see I don't want to necessarily lose what I have. I want to add on top of that, And so whether that's adding machine learning and kind of figuring out how they can take their data from various different data silos and put them into a large data lake and gets the machine learning insights on top of that, whether they want to do analytics, um, whether they want to d i o T. Whether they want to modernize two containers, I think there's there's a whole bunch of ways in which customers are looking at that. But you're absolutely right. It's not a I'm gonna go from a to B. It's I'm gonna take a and add B to it and, um, we see that's that's over and over again. I think what we've seen from customers doing it and, um and they're really taking advantage of that, right? And I think customers see all the announcements that we're making a reinvent over the next three weeks, and they wanna be able to take advantage of those things right? It's it's they want to be able to add that onto their production environment. They want to take a lot of the benefits they've gotten from their VM Ware environment, but also add some of these innovations from AWS. And I think that Z that really is what we focus on is what our engineering teams focus on. You know, we have joint engineering efforts to figure out how we can bridge that gap, right, so that they BMR environments can very easily reach into their A W s environment and take advantage of all the new services and offerings that we have there. So, um, that's that's exactly what our joint teams really pushed together. >>Sanjay, I wanna get your thoughts on this and we talk. Two years ago, we had a conversation with Cuba. I ask you since this is a great move for VM Ware because it simplifies the messaging and clears up the whole cloud strategy. And you had said something that I'm gonna bring this back today. You said it's not just simplifying the messaging to customers about what we're gonna do in the cloud. It's going to simplify their life is gonna make things easier. Have them set up for better bitterness. Goodness down the road. Can you take him in to explain what that what that goodness was? What came out of the simplicity of the messaging, the simplicity of solution? Where are we now? How does that all kind of Italian together? Can you take him in to explain that? >>Yeah, I think when the history books are written, John, um, this partnership will be one of the most seminal partnerships because from VM Ware's perspective, maybe a little from Amazon Let Matt talk about if you feel the same way. This is a headwind turning into a tailwind. I think that's sort of narrative that VM ware in Amazon were competing each others that maybe was the early story. In the early days of A W s Progress and VM, we're trying to build our own public cloud and then divesting that, uh, Mats, a Stanford grad. I'm a Harvard grad. So one day there'll be a case study. I think in both schools about how this partnership we have a strong partnership with deadlines, sometimes joke. That's a little bit of an arranged marriage we don't have. We didn't have much saying that because AMC Bardhyl so that's an important partnership. But this one we have to work hard to create. And I tell our customers, Del on AWS are top partners. And as you think about what we've been able to do here, the simplicity to the customer for you, as you describe this, is being able to really lower cost of ownership in any process, in terms of how they're building and migrating APs to be the best optimization of hardware, software and services. And the more you could make that better, simpler, cheaper through software and through the movement to the cloud. Um, I think customers benefit, and then you know, Of course, the innovation machine of both companies. Uh, Amazon's really building. I mean, every time I go to read and I'm just amazed at the Yeah, I think it's a near 200 services that they're building in all of these rich layers. All of those developers, services and, I don't know, two million customers. The whatever number of people that have it reinvent this year get to participate on top of all the applications and the virtualization infrastructure we built over the 20 years of our history. Uh eh. So I hope, you know, as we continue do this, this is all now, but customers success large and small customers being able to. And I'm very gratified to three years since we announced this that we're getting very good customer traction. And for us, that's gonna be a key focus to the reinvent, uh, presence we >>have at their show. It really just goes to show you when you built, when you invest in relationships up and down the spectrum from engineering Ah, product and executive. It kind of does pay off. Congratulations to you guys on that matter. I want to get your thoughts on where this kind of going because you're talking about the messaging from VM ware in the execution that comes behind it is the best, you know, Private public cloud hybrid cloud success. There's momentum there. What are the customers saying to you when you look at customer proof points? Um, what do you point to? Because you're now in charge of sales and marketing, you have to take now the installed base of Amazon Web services, which is you got the Debs and startups and, you know, cloud scale to large enterprises. Now you got the postcode growth. Go fast, cloud scale. You've got a huge customer base. You've got a target. These guys, you gotta bring this solution. What are they saying about the VM ware AWS success? Can you share some? Some >>days I'd be happy to, I think I mean, look, this this is what gets, uh, us excited. I know Sanjay gets just as excited about this. It's and it's really it's resonating across our customer base. You know, there's folks like S and P Global who's a large enterprise, right? They had, uh, they had a hardware procurement cycle. They were looking at them on front of implementation and they looked at a WSMV I'm wearing. They said, Look, we want to migrate. All of our applications want to migrate. Everything we have into the cloud, I think it was 150 critical financial applications that they seamlessly migrated with zero downtime Now all running on BMC in the cloud. Um, you look at governments, right? We have thing folks like the Scottish government on many government customers. We have folks that are like Penny Mac and regulated industries. Um, that really took critical parts of their application. Andi seamlessly migrated them to to A W S and BMC, and they looked at us. And when we talk to these customers, we really say, like, where is the best place for us to run these v sphere workloads? And, um and the great thing is we have a consistent message. We we know that it's the right that that aws nbn where's the best place to run those VCR workloads in the cloud? And so as we see enterprises as we see regulated industries as we see governments really looking to modernize and take advantage of the cloud, we're seeing them move whole swaths of their applications. And this is not just small parts. These are the critical really mission critical applications that they know that they need to get out flexibility on, and they want to get that agility. And so, um, you know, there's been a broad swath of customers like that that have really moved large large pieces of their application in date of us. So it's been fun to see. >>And John, if I might add to that what we've also sought to do is pick some of those great customers like the ones that Matt talked about and put them on stage. Uh, VM world. In previous, we had Freddie Mac and we had, you know, I h s market and these are good examples in the few that Matt talked about. So I'm super excited. I expect there'll be many more reinvent we did. Some also be in world. So we're getting these big customers to talk about this because then you get the 10 phenomenon. Everyone wants to come to this, tend to be able to participate in that momentum. The other thing I'm super excited about it started off as a US phenomenon. Just the U s customers, but I'm starting to see riel interest from European and a p J customers. Asia Pacific customers in countries Australia, Japan, U. K, France, Germany. So this becomes a global phenomenon where customers understand that this doesn't have to be just the U. S centric customers that are participating. And then that was, for me a very key objective because the early customers always gonna start in the Geo where, um, you know, there's the most resonance with the public cloud. But now we're starting to see this really take off in many parts of the world. >>Yeah, that's a great point at something we can talk about another conversation. Maybe we will bring you guys into some of our live check ins throughout the three weeks we're doing here. Reinvent. But this global regional approach Matt has been hugely successful. Um, we're on Amazon. We have Q breaches because by default, we're on top of Amazon. You're seeing companies build on top of Amazon. Look a snowflake. The largest I po in the history of Wall Street behind VM Ware. They run Amazon, right? And I will probably have other clouds to down the road. But the point is you guys are enabling this. >>Yeah, global. And it's it is one of the things that we hear from customers that they that they love about running in the cloud is that, you know, think about if you had Teoh, you know you mentioned snowflake. Imagine if your snowflake and you have to go build data centers everywhere. If you had to go roll out toe to Europe and then you have to build data centers in Germany and then you have to build data centers and the U. K. And then you had to go build data centers in Australia like that would be an enormous cost and complexity, and they probably wouldn't do it frankly, at their early stage, Um, you know, now they just they spin up another stack and their ableto serve their customers anywhere around the world. And we're seeing that from our VM or customers where, you know, they actually are spinning up brand new vmc clusters, uh, where they weren't able to do it before, where they either had toe operate from a single stack. Um, now they're able to say, you know what? I'd love to have Ah, vm or stack in Australia, and they're able to get that up and running quickly. And so I do think that this is actually enabling new business it z, enabling customers to think about. How do they put their computer environment close to where their end users are or where they need that computer environment to be sometime just close to end users? Sometimes it's for data residency requirements, but it really kind of enables customers to do that. Where think about in a cove in world, if you have to go launch a data center in a new country, you probably just I mean, maybe it wouldn't even be possible to do that way are today. And now it's just FBI calls. So >>I mean, your point about going slows in an option. The imperative we have, you know, even expression here inside silicon and on the Cube team. Is there a problem? Yes. Is it important? Yes. What are the consequences if you don't solve the problem? Can you quantify those consequences? And then you gotta look at solutions and look at the timing. So you got timing. You got cost. You got the consequences of not doing it. And speed all those things. No. No one's gonna roll out of data center in six months if they if they tried so again, Cloud. And I'm trying to come into play here. You gotta operate something. It's a hand in the glove, its's. I'm seeing the cream rise to the top with covert. You're seeing real examples of riel scale riel value problems that you solve that important that have consequences that can be quantified. I mean, it's simple. Is that >>you know, John, I was gonna say, in addition to this via McLeod on aws were also pretty, you know, prominent AWS customer for some of our services. So some of the services that we've seen accelerate through Covic Are these distributed workforce security capabilities? Eso we resume internally, that obviously runs on AWS. But then surrounding that with workspace one and carbon like to secure the laptop that goes home. Those services of us running A W. S two. So this is one of those places where we're grateful that we could run those cloud services because we're also just like Snowflake and Zoom and others. Many of the services that we build that our SAS type services run on Amazon, and that reinforces the partnership for us. Almost like a SAS customer. >>Well, gentlemen, really appreciate your insight. As always, a great conversation. We could go for another hour. You guys with leaders of your organizations, you're at the front lines as managing through the pandemic will have you guys come into our check ins throughout the three weeks now here during reinvent from or commentary. But I'd like to end this segment by sharing. In your opinion, what is the most important thing that the audience should pay attention to this year at Reinvent? I know there's a lot of things going on. It's three weeks, not four days. It's so it's longer, but still there's a lot of announcements, man, on your side vm where you got the moment and you got your announcements. What should customers pay attention to this reinvent Virtual 2020. >>So, do you wanna go first? >>No, man, it's your show. You go first. E >>I would encourage folks toe Really think about and plan the three weeks out. This this is the opportunity to really dive in and learn. Right? Reinvent is as as many of you know, this This is just a different type of conference. It's not American Conference. This is a learning conference, and and even virtually that doesn't change. And so I encourage. Look across the broad swath of things that we're doing. Learn about machine learning and what we're doing in that space. Learn about the new compute capabilities or container capabilities. Learn about you know what, what is most relevant to your business if you're looking about. Hey, I have an on premise data center, and I'm looking about how I extend into the cloud. There's a lot of new capabilities around BMC and AWS that makes sense, but there's also a lot of cool announcements around just other services. Um, that could be interesting. We have a ton of customers. They're giving talks. And learning from other customers is often the best way to really understand how you can get the most value out of the cloud. And so I encourage folks toe really kind of block that time. I think it's easy when your remote to get distracted by, you know, watching Netflix or answering emails or things like that. But this is this is a great opportunity to block that schedule. Find the time that you have to really spend time and dive into the sessions because we have a ton of great content on a lot of really cool launches coming up. >>Yeah, I'm just very quickly. I would like one of things I love about Amazon's culture and were similar. VM Ware is that sort of growth mindset. Learn it all and I'm looking forward myself personally to going to reinvent university. This is three weeks of learning, uh, listening to many of those those things. I learned a ton and I've tried to have my own sort of mindset of have being a learn it all as opposed to know it. Also these air incredible sessions and I would also reinforce what Matt said which is going find pure customers of yours that are in your same vertical. We're seeing enormous success in the key verticals Vienna plays in which itself called financial services public sector healthcare manufacturing, CPG retail. I mean, whatever it is so and many of those customers will be, uh, you know, doing virtual talks or we have case studies of use cases because often these sort of birds of a feather allow you to then plan your migration of modernization journey in a similar >>fashion, Matt Sanjay, always great to get the leaders of the two biggest companies in our world A, W s and VM where to share their perspectives. Uh, this year is gonna be different. I'm looking forward to, you know, really kinda stepping up and leaning into the virtual because, you know, we're gonna do three weeks of cube coverage. We have, like, special coverage days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday for each of the three weeks that we're in. And we're gonna try to make this fun as possible. Keep everyone engaged on tryto navigate, help people navigate through the virtual world. So looking forward to having you guys back on and and sharing. Thanks for coming. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Okay, this is the cubes. Virtual coverage of virtual reinvent 2020. I'm John for your host. Stay with us. Silicon angle dot com. The cube will be checking in with our live coverage in and out of the sessions and stay with us for more wall to wall coverage. Thanks for watching. Yeah,

>>welcome. My name is Ben Bennett. I am the director of HPC Strategic programs here at Hewlett Packard Enterprise. It is my great pleasure and honor to be talking to Professor Mark Parsons from the Edinburgh Parallel Computing Center. And we're gonna talk a little about exa scale. What? It means we're gonna talk less about the technology on Maura about the science, the requirements on the need for exa scale. Uh, rather than a deep dive into the enabling technologies. Mark. Welcome. >>I then thanks very much for inviting me to tell me >>complete pleasure. Um, so I'd like to kick off with, I suppose. Quite an interesting look back. You and I are both of a certain age 25 plus, Onda. We've seen these milestones. Uh, I suppose that the S I milestones of high performance computing's come and go, you know, from a gig a flop back in 1987 teraflop in 97 a petaflop in 2000 and eight. But we seem to be taking longer in getting to an ex a flop. Um, so I'd like your thoughts. Why is why is an extra flop taking so long? >>So I think that's a very interesting question because I started my career in parallel computing in 1989. I'm gonna join in. IPCC was set up then. You know, we're 30 years old this year in 1990 on Do you know the fastest computer we have them is 800 mega flops just under a getting flogged. So in my career, we've gone already. When we reached the better scale, we'd already gone pretty much a million times faster on, you know, the step from a tariff block to a block scale system really didn't feel particularly difficult. Um, on yet the step from A from a petaflop PETA scale system. To an extent, block is a really, really big challenge. And I think it's really actually related to what's happened with computer processes over the last decade, where, individually, you know, approached the core, Like on your laptop. Whoever hasn't got much faster, we've just got more often So the perception of more speed, but actually just being delivered by more course. And as you go down that approach, you know what happens in the supercomputing world as well. We've gone, uh, in 2010 I think we had systems that were, you know, a few 1000 cores. Our main national service in the UK for the last eight years has had 118,000 cores. But looking at the X scale we're looking at, you know, four or five million cores on taming that level of parallelism is the real challenge. And that's why it's taking an enormous and time to, uh, deliver these systems. That is not just on the hardware front. You know, vendors like HP have to deliver world beating technology and it's hard, hard. But then there's also the challenge to the users. How do they get the codes to work in the face of that much parallelism? >>If you look at what the the complexity is delivering an annex a flop. Andi, you could have bought an extra flop three or four years ago. You couldn't have housed it. You couldn't have powered it. You couldn't have afforded it on, do you? Couldn't program it. But you still you could have You could have bought one. We should have been so lucky to be unable to supply it. Um, the software, um I think from our standpoint, is is looking like where we're doing mawr enabling with our customers. You sell them a machine on, then the the need then to do collaboration specifically seems mawr and Maura around the software. Um, so it's It's gonna be relatively easy to get one x a flop using limb pack, but but that's not extra scale. So what do you think? On exa scale machine versus an X? A flop machine means to the people like yourself to your users, the scientists and industry. What is an ex? A flop versus >>an exa scale? So I think, you know, supercomputing moves forward by setting itself challenges. And when you when you look at all of the excess scale programs worldwide that are trying to deliver systems that can do an X a lot form or it's actually very arbitrary challenge. You know, we set ourselves a PETA scale challenge delivering a petaflop somebody manage that, Andi. But you know, the world moves forward by setting itself challenges e think you know, we use quite arbitrary definition of what we mean is well by an exit block. So, you know, in your in my world, um, we either way, first of all, see ah flop is a computation, so multiply or it's an ad or whatever on we tend. Thio, look at that is using very high precision numbers or 64 bit numbers on Do you know, we then say, Well, you've got to do the next block. You've got to do a billion billion of those calculations every second. No, a some of the last arbitrary target Now you know today from HPD Aiken by my assistant and will do a billion billion calculations per second. And they will either do that as a theoretical peak, which would be almost unattainable, or using benchmarks that stressed the system on demonstrate a relaxing law. But again, those benchmarks themselves attuned Thio. Just do those calculations and deliver and explore been a steady I'll way if you like. So, you know, way kind of set ourselves this this this big challenge You know, the big fence on the race course, which were clambering over. But the challenge in itself actually should be. I'm much more interesting. The water we're going to use these devices for having built um, eso. Getting into the extra scale era is not so much about doing an extra block. It's a new generation off capability that allows us to do better scientific and industrial research. And that's the interesting bit in this whole story. >>I would tend to agree with you. I think the the focus around exa scale is to look at, you know, new technologies, new ways of doing things, new ways of looking at data and to get new results. So eventually you will get yourself a nexus scale machine. Um, one hopes, sooner rather >>than later. Well, I'm sure you don't tell me one, Ben. >>It's got nothing to do with may. I can't sell you anything, Mark. But there are people outside the door over there who would love to sell you one. Yes. However, if we if you look at your you know your your exa scale machine, Um, how do you believe the workloads are going to be different on an extra scale machine versus your current PETA scale machine? >>So I think there's always a slight conceit when you buy a new national supercomputer. On that conceit is that you're buying a capability that you know on. But many people will run on the whole system. Known truth. We do have people that run on the whole of our archer system. Today's A 118,000 cores, but I would say, and I'm looking at the system. People that run over say, half of that can be counted on Europe on a single hand in a year, and they're doing very specific things. It's very costly simulation they're running on. So, you know, if you look at these systems today, two things show no one is. It's very difficult to get time on them. The Baroque application procedures All of the requirements have to be assessed by your peers and your given quite limited amount of time that you have to eke out to do science. Andi people tend to run their applications in the sweet spot where their application delivers the best performance on You know, we try to push our users over time. Thio use reasonably sized jobs. I think our average job says about 20,000 course, she's not bad, but that does mean that as we move to the exits, kill two things have to happen. One is actually I think we've got to be more relaxed about giving people access to the system, So let's give more people access, let people play, let people try out ideas they've never tried out before. And I think that will lead to a lot more innovation and computational science. But at the same time, I think we also need to be less precious. You know, we to accept these systems will have a variety of sizes of job on them. You know, we're still gonna have people that want to run four million cores or two million cores. That's absolutely fine. Absolutely. Salute those people for trying really, really difficult. But then we're gonna have a huge spectrum of views all the way down to people that want to run on 500 cores or whatever. So I think we need Thio broaden the user base in Alexa Skill system. And I know this is what's happening, for example, in Japan with the new Japanese system. >>So, Mark, if you cast your mind back to almost exactly a year ago after the HPC user forum, you were interviewed for Premier Magazine on Do you alluded in that article to the needs off scientific industrial users requiring, you know, uh on X a flop or an exa scale machine it's clear in your in your previous answer regarding, you know, the workloads. Some would say that the majority of people would be happier with, say, 10 100 petaflop machines. You know, democratization. More people access. But can you provide us examples at the type of science? The needs of industrial users that actually do require those resources to be put >>together as an exa scale machine? So I think you know, it's a very interesting area. At the end of the day, these systems air bought because they are capability systems on. I absolutely take the argument. Why shouldn't we buy 10 100 pattern block systems? But there are a number of scientific areas even today that would benefit from a nexus school system and on these the sort of scientific areas that will use as much access onto a system as much time and as much scale of the system as they can, as you can give them eso on immediate example. People doing chroma dynamics calculations in particle physics, theoretical calculations, they would just use whatever you give them. But you know, I think one of the areas that is very interesting is actually the engineering space where, you know, many people worry the engineering applications over the last decade haven't really kept up with this sort of supercomputers that we have. I'm leading a project called Asimov, funded by M. P S O. C in the UK, which is jointly with Rolls Royce, jointly funded by Rolls Royce and also working with the University of Cambridge, Oxford, Bristol, Warrick. We're trying to do the whole engine gas turbine simulation for the first time. So that's looking at the structure of the gas turbine, the airplane engine, the structure of it, how it's all built it together, looking at the fluid dynamics off the air and the hot gasses, the flu threat, looking at the combustion of the engine looking how fuel is spread into the combustion chamber. Looking at the electrics around, looking at the way the engine two forms is, it heats up and cools down all of that. Now Rolls Royce wants to do that for 20 years. Andi, Uh, whenever they certify, a new engine has to go through a number of physical tests, and every time they do on those tests, it could cost them as much as 25 to $30 million. These are very expensive tests, particularly when they do what's called a blade off test, which would be, you know, blade failure. They could prove that the engine contains the fragments of the blade. Sort of think, continue face really important test and all engines and pass it. What we want to do is do is use an exa scale computer to properly model a blade off test for the first time, so that in future, some simulations can become virtual rather than having thio expend all of the money that Rolls Royce would normally spend on. You know, it's a fascinating project is a really hard project to do. One of the things that I do is I am deaf to share this year. Gordon Bell Price on bond I've really enjoyed to do. That's one of the major prizes in our area, you know, gets announced supercomputing every year. So I have the pleasure of reading all the submissions each year. I what's been really interesting thing? This is my third year doing being on the committee on what's really interesting is the way that big systems like Summit, for example, in the US have pushed the user communities to try and do simulations Nowhere. Nobody's done before, you know. And we've seen this as well, with papers coming after the first use of the for Goku system in Japan, for example, people you know, these are very, very broad. So, you know, earthquake simulation, a large Eddie simulations of boats. You know, a number of things around Genome Wide Association studies, for example. So the use of these computers spans of last area off computational science. I think the really really important thing about these systems is their challenging people that do calculations they've never done before. That's what's important. >>Okay, Thank you. You talked about challenges when I nearly said when you and I had lots of hair, but that's probably much more true of May. Um, we used to talk about grand challenges we talked about, especially around the teraflop era, the ski red program driving, you know, the grand challenges of science, possibly to hide the fact that it was a bomb designing computer eso they talked about the grand challenges. Um, we don't seem to talk about that much. We talk about excess girl. We talk about data. Um Where are the grand challenges that you see that an exa scale computer can you know it can help us. Okay, >>so I think grand challenges didn't go away. Just the phrase went out of fashion. Um, that's like my hair. I think it's interesting. The I do feel the science moves forward by setting itself grand challenges and always had has done, you know, my original backgrounds in particle physics. I was very lucky to spend four years at CERN working in the early stage of the left accelerator when it first came online on. Do you know the scientists there? I think they worked on left 15 years before I came in and did my little ph d on it. Andi, I think that way of organizing science hasn't changed. We just talked less about grand challenges. I think you know what I've seen over the last few years is a renaissance in computational science, looking at things that have previously, you know, people have said have been impossible. So a couple of years ago, for example, one of the key Gordon Bell price papers was on Genome Wide Association studies on some of it. If I may be one of the winner of its, if I remember right on. But that was really, really interesting because first of all, you know, the sort of the Genome Wide Association Studies had gone out of favor in the bioinformatics by a scientist community because people thought they weren't possible to compute. But that particular paper should Yes, you could do these really, really big Continental little problems in a reasonable amount of time if you had a big enough computer. And one thing I felt all the way through my career actually is we've probably discarded Mawr simulations because they were impossible at the time that we've actually decided to do. And I sometimes think we to challenge ourselves by looking at the things we've discovered in the past and say, Oh, look, you know, we could actually do that now, Andi, I think part of the the challenge of bringing an extra service toe life is to get people to think about what they would use it for. That's a key thing. Otherwise, I always say, a computer that is unused to just be turned off. There's no point in having underutilized supercomputer. Everybody loses from that. >>So Let's let's bring ourselves slightly more up to date. We're in the middle of a global pandemic. Uh, on board one of the things in our industry has bean that I've been particularly proud about is I've seen the vendors, all the vendors, you know, offering up machine's onboard, uh, making resources available for people to fight things current disease. Um, how do you see supercomputers now and in the future? Speeding up things like vaccine discovery on help when helping doctors generally. >>So I think you're quite right that, you know, the supercomputer community around the world actually did a really good job of responding to over 19. Inasmuch as you know, speaking for the UK, we put in place a rapid access program. So anybody wanted to do covert research on the various national services we have done to the to two services Could get really quick access. Um, on that, that has worked really well in the UK You know, we didn't have an archer is an old system, Aziz. You know, we didn't have the world's largest supercomputer, but it is happily bean running lots off covert 19 simulations largely for the biomedical community. Looking at Druk modeling and molecular modeling. Largely that's just been going the US They've been doing really large uh, combinatorial parameter search problems on on Summit, for example, looking to see whether or not old drugs could be reused to solve a new problem on DSO, I think, I think actually, in some respects Kobe, 19 is being the sounds wrong. But it's actually been good for supercomputing. Inasmuch is pointed out to governments that supercomputers are important parts off any scientific, the active countries research infrastructure. >>So, um, I'll finish up and tap into your inner geek. Um, there's a lot of technologies that are being banded around to currently enable, you know, the first exa scale machine, wherever that's going to be from whomever, what are the current technologies or emerging technologies that you are interested in excited about looking forward to getting your hands on. >>So in the business case I've written for the U. K's exa scale computer, I actually characterized this is a choice between the American model in the Japanese model. Okay, both of frozen, both of condoms. Eso in America, they're very much gone down the chorus plus GPU or GPU fruit. Um, so you might have, you know, an Intel Xeon or an M D process er center or unarmed process or, for that matter on you might have, you know, 24 g. P. U s. I think the most interesting thing that I've seen is definitely this move to a single address space. So the data that you have will be accessible, but the G p u on the CPU, I think you know, that's really bean. One of the key things that stopped the uptake of GPS today and that that that one single change is going Thio, I think, uh, make things very, very interesting. But I'm not entirely convinced that the CPU GPU model because I think that it's very difficult to get all the all the performance set of the GPU. You know, it will do well in H p l, for example, high performance impact benchmark we're discussing at the beginning of this interview. But in riel scientific workloads, you know, you still find it difficult to find all the performance that has promised. So, you know, the Japanese approach, which is the core, is only approach. E think it's very attractive, inasmuch as you know They're using very high bandwidth memory, very interesting process of which they are going to have to, you know, which they could develop together over 10 year period. And this is one thing that people don't realize the Japanese program and the American Mexico program has been working for 10 years on these systems. I think the Japanese process really interesting because, um, it when you look at the performance, it really does work for their scientific work clothes, and that's that does interest me a lot. This this combination of a A process are designed to do good science, high bandwidth memory and a real understanding of how data flows around the supercomputer. I think those are the things are exciting me at the moment. Obviously, you know, there's new networking technologies, I think, in the fullness of time, not necessarily for the first systems. You know, over the next decade we're going to see much, much more activity on silicon photonics. I think that's really, really fascinating all of these things. I think in some respects the last decade has just bean quite incremental improvements. But I think we're supercomputing is going in the moment. We're a very very disruptive moment again. That goes back to start this discussion. Why is extra skill been difficult to get? Thio? Actually, because the disruptive moment in technology. >>Professor Parsons, thank you very much for your time and your insights. Thank you. Pleasure and folks. Thank you for watching. I hope you've learned something, or at least enjoyed it. With that, I would ask you to stay safe and goodbye.

>>From London, England. It's the cube covering Kupa inspire 19 PVR after you by Cooper. >>Hi. Welcome to the cube Lisa Martin on the ground in London at Kupa inspire 19 please do welcome back to the cube Ravi talker, the SVP, a business acceleration that Cooper won't be welcome back. It's great to be back. Thanks for having me. Likewise. So lots of, lots of buzz around us. Everyone's eating lunch, but there's a lot of folks here in London, a lot of exciting news coming out in this morning. Lot of customers and fused in Rob's keynote. I lost count of how many great customer examples were showed. Talk to us a little bit about Kupa pay and some of the innovations that you guys are delivering now. >>Yeah, absolutely. So pay pays a great new area for Coupa. We call it the fourth pillar and Rob's analogy of the pipe procurement, invoicing, payment and expenses. And so actually we started this journey a really last year at this event where we announced virtual card for purchase orders and a strategic relationship with Barclaycard. And over that past year we've done some amazing things with relationships with JP Morgan, Citibank, and we just announced a great relationship with American express to provide American express virtual cards on the Coupa pay platform. So we've been working hard at it. We've seen some really good success early success with customers. Uh, we announced some other great innovations in our Vegas conference just a few months ago where we announced invoice payments is generally available along with partnerships with Stripe and PayPal. So it's been really busy. >>It has been the B2B payments space. It's a big market, 1.2, I think trillion global and global volume. But it's also challenging because on the consumer side, on the BDC side, it's so easy for us to do transactions right on our phone, tablet watches, and we had this expectation that we can pay for anything. We can find anything, we can pay bills so easily. But on the B2B side there's a lot more complexity. The BDB hasn't, payments hasn't been able to innovate nearly as quickly as on the consumer side. But I'd love to get your thoughts on what is Cooper able to leverage with Coupa pay that's maybe going to start meeting some of the demands of those business folks who in their consumer lives have this expectation of a swipe or a click to do a transaction. >>Yeah, it's a completely different ball game consumer versus B2B, whole avenues around risk profiles of your suppliers. You know if you pay a supplier that's doing illegal business are doing place and where the government doesn't allow it puts your brand and your reputation at risk. Very serious risks. And so we incorporate a lot of what we do with the community. So you heard Rob talk about that in his keynote. A lot of things around community intelligence. So for us being able to rely on thousands of customers of data, millions of transactions, being able to see things across all of our customers and really create alerts and transactional efficiencies for our customers in B2B payments. That's a big change for our customers and we're just starting to get to see some of those transactional elements. I think the second thing that we've seen with B2B payments, and it's interesting money, 2020 is one of the largest, uh, payment conferences, uh, in the world. And it happened I think last week or the week before in Vegas. And this year has been a lot of talk about B2B payments, whereas last year is mostly B to C. and so we feel we've been making an impact in the entire payments area because to us it's bringing together all of the different payment rails, whether it's virtual card or bank transfers or cross border, but being able to do it across dozens and hundreds of countries and it global fashion. That's a big game changer for large enterprises. >>So one of the things that was a theme this morning during the keynote was trust. I had the opportunity to speak with Rachel Botsman trust expert who did a keynote this morning. And as we look at some of the numbers that Rob shared, you mentioned a few of over a thousand plus customers using Coupa. I think he's shared over 5 million suppliers on the platform. You talked about this community, this massive community that you are co creating with. Talk to me about Coupa pay and its ability to help deliver that trust so that Coupa can be that trusted advisor that it wants to be with. It's not just its customers but as partners too. >>No, absolutely. And Rachel's presentation this morning was fantastic. Yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, uh, my background actually I Kupa for a decade I ran customer success. So I engaged with C level executives at all of our customers. And as part of that process, a trust was a big factor in that when we said something we would deliver that. And over the course of the years that coop has been around about 1314 years we've held very true. That stands in our number one core value of ensuring customer success. And when you look at all of the customers that are willing to put their six, what we call success metrics, how much they've spent saved the spend that they have under management when they are publicly talking about it. That's trust that we've created with them in this partnership because they believe in what our ability to deliver says we decided to go into payments or we're trust and payments is a very big deal as mentioned earlier. Right? You don't get necessarily fired for screwing up our purchase order or an invoice, but if you send money to the wrong supplier to the wrong country, you know, there's a lot of risk associated with that. So we take that very, very seriously and how we've been developing and creating solutions around Kupa pay. And so it's just the overall Avenue that we work with our, we treat them as partners, not as a vendor supplier relationship. And because of that we have this mutual trust that we're both in this together in this large community. >>Yeah. And Rachel Botsman talk about sort of that balance between, uh, trust and risk. Yeah. Which was very interesting concept. Um, talk to me about, I'm just thinking like even from a fraud on a supplier perspective, one of the things I know that Cuba is able to do is alert a customer, Hey, there's a supplier that has a history of whatever it happens to me that's, that's my inflict risk on that customer. Tell me a little bit about that. From a trust risk kind of balanced perspective, what you guys are delivering there. >>It's a great area that we're just really starting to get into as well. And so being able to leverage the community of buyers and suppliers and having everything in a single code system code platform allows us to do a number of these things. And so for providing our customers, not the necessarily the, the exact thing that they should do, but providing them the relevant information in order for them to make the right decisions. Yeah. There's an old adage that I go by which is trust but verify. And so it's the same similar concept here. It's our goal to provide these prescriptions to our customers on what is the supplier doing or how can you improve your processes. And with these prescriptions, as Rob mentioned this morning, it's, it's up to our customers to choose what they want to do with those prescriptions. Sometimes they may take it, sometimes they may not >>and he gave a number, I want to say 22,000 prescriptions and he gave a time period in the past 12 months. That's what I thought as well. So a lot of insight literally coming out of that community. Love to chat though about the community in terms of the B2B payment space, not only we talked about how it's being influenced by consumers, but the changing role of procurement and finance. Yeah, a lot of just disruption there. We talked about that a few months ago and didn't get a lot of opportunity for financial leaders to become much more strategic and a lot of the examples that Rob shared showed how impactful company wide the impact that procurement folks, finance folks can make. Talk to me about how the Coupa is leveraging that community to help them get more visibility on how that procurement role is changing and how Coupa can help it be much more strategic. You know what I, that's a great question. And >>what I respond with that is, what's the name of our conference? It's inspire, right? We want to inspire this community to really go to that next level and really look deep inside themselves. It, Rob talks about all these different adjectives of Brown, all the different, what we call spend setters. It's a great initiative that we've created because we're giving our community of voice and that's always the biggest thing in how you affect change. How do you give people a voice? How do you give someone a story that they can grasp onto such that they can make it their own, such as they can take those facts and that relevance and apply it to their own day to day jobs. And that's a big thing that we're looking to do. But it requires going back to trust. It requires a little bit of trust in what we're doing. And by providing those stories, it gives these, our customers, our champions, uh, the ability to fall back on those, have that foundation for how to make change, how to disrupt their organizations. You know, Rob gave that great example of Telenor. You know, their seep, their chief procurement officer created a blueprint and a plan to provide mobile service. I think it was an India is a great example of what an individual can do and when you're that individual and you have visibility and tall your supply base into all of the spend going across your company, it's very, very powerful. >>I saw a survey that Cuba did recently have, I think 253 financial decision makers in the U K and some of the stats were quite shocking that 96% I believe said we do not have complete visibility over our entire spend. Right. Wow. Right. That's because one, some of the things that Rob shared this morning was the massive, massive savings that companies can achieve, but not having that visibility. You've got blinders on. There's a lot of risk there. There's a lot of expenses that probably should be going into procurement, but that was really 96% saying we don't have complete visibility. What's Cooper's answer to that? >>You know, it's, it's an interesting statistic. Right? And I, I gave a presentation I think seven, eight years ago, and I started off that presentation with saying, you know, if you are an HR and you didn't have track of all your employees, you'd be fired. If you're a head of sales and you didn't have an understanding of all of your open opportunities for business, you'd be fired. So why is that different for spend? Right? Why not have visibility and have access to all of the different spin that's happening across your company? And your Rob said it best in his keynote. We talked about what's actually happening in the world today. It's not necessarily around customer relationship management software, CRM, right? It's not necessarily around human capital management, but it's the well capitalized businesses of the world today. And today's day and age and this uncertainty of Brexit, uncertainty of the global climate, us, China trade relations, who's well capitalized to make and withstand what could be some, you know, unsettling times. Now there's another very interesting thing we saw with that same survey. Excuse me. Along with some of the things we saw with the wall street journal with some surveys we did with them, these finance professionals, they want to have that visibility and our answer to them come talk to us. >>So speaking of influence, inspiring, tell me a little bit about how the Coupa community influenced or is influencing the evolution of Coupa pay for example was Hey, we've got to have Amex virtual cards integrated with Coupa pay. Was that something that came from the voice of the community? Yeah, so we, >>you know, all across Koopa ever since the inception of the company, it's always around partnering with our customers, with our community to really listen and understand what they, what they're looking for. But doing it in the guy in the, within the framework of our core values as a customer, as a company. And the first one that I mentioned earlier, ensuring customer success. So we want to listen to our customers, we want to better understand them. So around virtual cards, you know, how do we choose to do an Amex or a Barclaycard? And to us it's actually pretty simple. We wanted to make sure that we're able to cover 80 to 90% of our customers with these large issuers. And we've been able to do that over the past year in negotiating these agreements, figuring out the technology components. And so we've been executing and delivering on that over the past, uh, over the past year. >>And if I understand that the press release correctly, KUKA pay with Amex virtual court integration is launching first in the UK and Australia. Correct. Can you tell me a little bit about those markets and what were some of the deciding factors? They said, Hey, well we'll go, we'll parlay on your title of acceleration. Is this, are these the right markets to launch and to accelerate copay? >>Yeah. Um, you know, there's obviously a lot of different ways and opportunities that American express has to go to market, massive company, great company to partner with. And so what we saw with them is from a technology standpoint, starting off in the UK and Australia made the most sense. We also have existing demand with customers that are ready to get going and really help us make sure that we create the right experience. You know, we expect this partnership to be really big and so as part of that, we want to make sure that we're able to deliver in certain markets first before we expand this and make this a much bigger thing. American express has a very prestigious brand. We want to respect and support that and we have our own brand that we want to support with our customers. We want to make sure we do it right. >>Well, Ravi, last question. I know that you're keynoting tomorrow. Yes. What are the couple of takeaways that you're going to leave the audience with tomorrow during your keynote? >>Yeah, it's a great, good question. I think the, the takeaways for tomorrow is we want to share some stories. You know, going back to inspiration, it's all about storytelling. Do we have stories to tell our customers such that they can relate to it and fall back on that? So we have three great customer speakers tomorrow. Really excited about the stories that they're going to share about Cooper pay and their journey with it. And my take away for our are the audiences. How do those stories relate to your business and is there a way that we can help you streamline your payment process? >>Awesome. Robbie, it's been a pleasure. You back on the cube. Best of luck at your keynote tomorrow and we'll see you at the next inspire. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. All right. For Ravi talker, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the cube from London. Coupa inspire 19.

>> from Austin, Texas. It's Theo Cube, covering pure storage. Accelerate 2019. Brought to you by pure storage. >> Welcome back to the Cube, The leader and live tech coverage. I'm Lisa Martin with David Dante. We got a pretty cool guests coming up next, guys, you may have seen him here on the Q before. He has back Matt Harris, the head of I T for Mercedes AMG, Petronas Motor Sport. Matt, Welcome back. >> Often a >> way got the car over there with excitement. One of the coolest sports I've ever become involved with. Formula One is this incredible mix of technology strategy. All these crazy things you guys that Mercedes have been partners, customers a cure for about what? 45 years? >> 2015. As a customer, we became partners in 2016. >> I wonder if they like to save Mercedes AMG Petunias Motor Sport has had five consecutive years of both constructors championships driver's championships. You're a great position on both for 2019. It was a little bit of a history about the product that you put out on truck every other week and how pure storage is a facilitator of that. >> Yeah, okay, so it's an interest in a story for those that are interested in Formula One, because what you see on the track looks the same. But realistically, every time he goes out, the guarantee will be different. That level of difference could be a simple wing change or configuration, always based on data that we're learning from during a race again. But every week we also have a different car dependent on the track we're going to. So we have two different worlds that basically were to rate on a minute by minute, hour by hour and day by day at the track. But in the factory, that could be the same sort of it oration. But it could also be into weekly or monthly or year for a car. So all of that is based on data. So everything we do is that businesses revolves around data. We never make a change to the car without me now to back it up with empirical knowledge. Even if the driver turns around and tells us they feel something called, they believe something, we will always make sure we have data to back up that decision, So access to data is critical. Compute performance whether it's high performance, compute for our safety, for instance, whether it's for you as an end user, access to data is critical across everything that we do is time critical Time is our currency really as a business if we slow down your job? Generally, that probably means that you've got less time to make the correct decision. Or maybe you have to turn into a guess or a hunch, which that's never a good place to be in our sport. >> No, I would think not. >> I've I recall, from our conversation last year their rules that say, How many people you can have in your entourage like 60. I think it was yes, and at the time I think you said you got, like, 15 Allocated to data. Is that ratio kind of still holding? I >> still exactly the same in our tracks. On environment, they're still the same in the factory. We have more than that, depending on how many people on what time of day, what day of the week. So on a Friday race day, practice day, we can have a minimum. There'll be 30 people in our race support room will be looking at data along with those other 15. But you can have the whole Aargh department or design department or logistics. Whoever could still be looking at data from the track real time, so we can have as many as 4 to 500 looking at data if they want to. And if that's the right thing going on earlier in the season, you generally get more people looking As the season goes on. It's probably more aargh focused, maybe mechanically if we got something new, or maybe the engine division again in a completely separate building in the U. K 40 miles apart, they've got another set of people that will be looking and trolling through data riel time from the but looking really at the power unit rather than the chassis side. >> And you're generating, like roughly half a terabyte a weekend on a race weekend. Is that still about the same? Or is that growing a car >> perspective? It's just under half a terabyte, but we produce up to another half a terabyte of other supporting data with that GPS data, weather data, video, audio, whatever it would be other information to help with the strategy side of things So we're around 77 50 to 1 terabyte for race weekend, >> and each car has about 300 sensors. I think when we spoke with you last year, or maybe you're half ago is about 200 so that's increasing in terms of all the data being captured every race weekend. But one of the things that I love that matter sizes, you know, we're idea at Mercedes is not that unlike I t at other groups who really rely on high performance systems. But you do put out a new product every two weeks and this really extreme range of conditions, your product is extremely expensive as pretty sexy. Like the portability factor. You have to set up a tea shop, have any 20 weekends a year and set it up in what, 36 hours and take it down in six. >> And a nine year old joke about the taking it down in six is a bit like a Benny Hill sketch. It's obviously choreographed and, well, well rehearsed, but we have all the same systems as any normal business would have the tracks. That environment is very different, though we don't have air conditioning in so all the IittIe equipment has to work at the natural ambient air temperature of the country. We're in this year. Believe it or not, Germany and hungry have been our biggest challenge. We've had for the last 43 to 4 years because they had 45 degree air ambient air temperature. So forget humidity for a minute, which is Another kettle of fish probably affects us a bit more, maybe, than the systems, but we're only chucking that air as fast as we can across the components. So we're not putting any cooling into what is probably around the tolerance of most I T systems. So we have to rely basically on air throughput to terminate. Keep kit. Cool. Now the benefit with pure is actually doesn't create any heat, either. There's no riel heat generation, so it's quite tolerant, which helps us get it doesn't create Maur, but the environment we put it into is quite special. But what we're doing is what any business would want to do. Access toe email file systems. What we're trying to do is give it in a performance fashion. People need to make a decision. So in qualifying, for instance, those 300 sensors. That information that we've got from the car, we've got minutes to make a decision based on data. If it takes you too long to get the data off, you can't then look at the data to make a decision. So we have to make sure data in just from the car and then basically multi access from everybody in the factory or the track side is performance enough to make a decision before the car goes back out again. Otherwise, we're wasting track time. >> So you've always had data in this business. Early days was all analog, and it obviously progressed and thinking about what you want to do, Going forward with data. What kind of information or capabilities don't you have? Where that technology in the future could address >> s so interesting. One is technology of the future. If you know what it is, let me know with what we know right now, I think a lot of it's gonna be about having the ability to have persistent storage. But actually the dynamic of the compute resource eso looking at things like kubernetes or anything like that to turn around and have dynamic resource spin up as and when required to do high performance computer calculations based on the data, maybe to start giving us some automated information, I'm gonna be careful of the M l A. I is for our businesses, it's not quite as simple as others because our senior management very technically capable, and they just see it as advanced statistical analysis. So unless you program, it is not gonna give you an answer. Now we've started to see some things this year were actually the computer is teaching us things we didn't ask it to. So we have got some areas where we're beginning to learn that. That's not necessarily the case now, but for us that access to data moving forward, it's probably gonna be compute. Combined with that underlying storage platform, there's going to be critical onstage. You you heard Robin people talking about the ability to have that always present storage layer with the right computer. That's something for us is going to be critical, because otherwise we're gonna waste money and have resource sat doing nothing. >> Is security >> an issue for you? I mean, it's an issue for everybody, but there isn't a game of honor because you got this, you know, little community that you guys trying to hack each other systems. >> So it's an interesting one inside the sport, Actually, no. Because a few years ago there was a very high profile case where data went between two teams and there was £100 million fine's exclusion from the sport for a season. So that's that's >> too big. You don't mess with that. >> But also, if you think of that from our perspective, we've got the Daimler star on here. We cannot afford to have any of that Brenda brand reputational rubbing off on Damon's. So that's a no no other teams I can't talk for. But we're all fairly sensible between ourselves. What will be interesting moving forward is what technologies air in our sport, but actually of the whether their motor manufacturers or not, is their technology in there that they're interested in. Maybe the battery technology from the power unit side of things is that the power unit itself. So are other things actually more interesting to those other >> places. It legal for you, you know, by the rules of sports, a monitor, just data or captured data, whether it's visual, whatever from your competitors. Eso anything, >> this public? Yes, it's fair game. Okay, so we get given all the teams. Actually, we get a standard set of three or four different streams of information around GPS timing on some video feeds and audio feeds on their publicly consumable by the team's. When I say public for a second on those feeds, we can do what we like. You know that there for us to infer information, which we do a lot off, is what helps our strategy team to turn around and actually predict what we might or might not need to do as far as a pit stop or tire degradation. >> And that's where the human element must come into understanding the competent, like to football coaches who who know each other right? >> Well, yes. And now, if you think if you add to that the human element off Well, what happens if one team strategy person changes? Are they gonna make a different call based on the same data? Is their hunch different? Do they think they know better within a team? You can have that discussion. So what happens in another team where they're cars, not as performance so their mindset. Maybe they're thinking differently. Or maybe a team's got the most performance car of the moment and they think that they're going to do X. And we're like, Well, we're gonna do something different than to try and actually catch them out. So do we. Now don't do the normal thing. >> So let's hope >> Gamification I love it. >> Let's look at all. Make a prediction. 2019 is gonna be another Mercedes AMG way. So at the end of the season, all of the data that you have collected from the cars, all the sensors, all the weather data, GPS, et cetera how does pure facilitate in the off season the design of the 2020 car, for example, Where does where does things like computational fluid dynamics? >> Okay, so all of our production data is on pure, whether it's on a ray or blade somewhere, it's on pure storage across the site. So they're involved. Whether you're talking about design, whether you're talking about final element analysis for hyper a ll, the C f. D. Using high performance computer systems, everything some pure so from that point of view, is making sure we're using the right resource in the right place to get the best performance. Now, see if he's an interesting one because we're regulated by the F A a. About the amount of compute that weaken you. He's now. Because of that, you want it to be as efficient as you possibly can. It's not speed but the efficient use off CPU time. So if a CPU is waiting for data, that's wasted, Okay, so for us, it's trying to make sure that whole ecosystem is as efficient as we can. That's obviously an integral part of everything we do, so whether we're wind tunnel testing, whether we're in the dino, the simulators, but everything basically comes back to trying to understand and correlate the six or seven different places we generate data, trying to make sure that when there's a change in the simulator, we understand that change in the real world or in a diner or in safety. So all of that, what pure do is allow us to have that single place to go and look how I perform and always available. And for me, I don't have to have a story. Jasmine. Yeah, we've got a team of people that actually are thinking about that for us at Pure, You know, there is invested in us these days. Yeah, I walk around here, I'm very fortunate. I get to see all of the senior guys here and there. They are asking me what's going on and how's things with sequel Oracle Because they know exactly what we're doing and they're they're trying to say what's coming. So things like object engine Pierre So we've been talking to pure about using that over the coming months. But what? We're not having it at the moment. Go out and learn it. Actually, they coming in and they're telling us all about it. So they become a virtual extension to my team, which is just amazing. >> Yeah, far more efficient. You're able to focus on a much more things that drive value for the business. As we look at some of the things like the Evergreen business model. What were some of the big ah ha we hear is the right solution for us back in 2015. Is that >> so? Evergreen and love. Your stories were two things at the time that we're just incredible for us because love your storage was basically you could have an array and basically you could use it. And there was no commitment, no anything. But if you like that, you could keep it, obviously, paying for it. Ah, nde. When we did that in the factory, basically, within a week of being in there that the team were like, Whoa, hang on, that's going nowhere. So that was That was a nice, easy one. But Evergreen was an interesting one, which has only really, truly for me. I've always bought into it. But the last probably 18 months we've used it time and time and time again because the improvements with the speed of light x 90 coming envy Emmy drives. When we were looking at capacity, what we did was we turned round and said, Well, actually, we can buy more dense units in the next 90 so we're only buying the extra capacity, but we were getting new technology. So nations, all the innovation that you're putting into their products were getting it. So today, when they were talking about the memory based access, and if your things always sat there going, I can use that. Oh, and there's no there's no work for me, there's no effort. The only thing I gotta worry about is whether I've got capacity for that. Those modules to go in. So Evergreen has worked several times because I don't have to go back to the cap export and go. Could I have another x £1,000,000 please? Why? I need some more storage. Yeah, but you bought some of the other day. Yeah, well, that one. I need to get rid of it because I need a bigger one. And I don't have to do that. Now. I just go in. I'm telling them what the increases for which actually, they can choose Then if they want to increase, they know what the business benefit is rather than just I t has got to turn around and either replace it because of age or the new version doesn't support is not an uplift, not upgrade from the old. One >> I've seen was looking at some of your stats and the case study that's currently online on. Imagine these numbers have gone up 68% reduction in data center Rackspace and saving £100,000 a year and operating costs >> those that would have been probably two years ago. Ish roughly those figures. And the operating cost is a huge improvement for us. Cap Ex is probably the biggest one for me. They were moving forward with cost caps coming into Formula One. That type of thing is gonna be invaluable. Does not happen to do a forklift upgrade of your storage. Well, I wouldn't know what I would do if I had to upgrade what I now own from pure I can't even imagine what? I don't want to turn around town my bosses what that's >> gonna cost. Well, it sounds like you really attacked the op X side with R and D with pure r and D. I kind of like that shifting, you know, labor toe are Andy because you don't want to spend labour on managing storage a raise, make no sense for your business. Okay. What do you want? Pure toe spend? R and D are now, what problem can they saw for? You mean >> so racy is gonna help If I'm really honest, that's actually is gonna help fill a whole quite well for us because we weren't really sure what to put some of that less hot data we were like, Well, where we going to start to put this now? Because we were beginning to fill up the array and the blades. Actually, with a racy no, we can actually use that different class of storage actually, to keep it still online. Still be out to do some machine learning A. I in the future when that comes around. But actually I can now have Maur longevity out of my existing array and blades. So that's brilliant and coming, I think, having I need to be careful, I know some things that are coming. Uh, the active sinking array is brilliant, and we've been using that since it came out. Having that similar or same ability in Blade when it comes will be a very advantageous having those played enclosures. We've gone to multi chassis flash played over the last six weeks, so that for us is great. Once we can start to synchronize between those two, then that's ah, that's another big one for us, for resiliency, for fault, tolerance, but also workload movement. That thing I said about persistent stories, layer, I'm not gonna need to care where it is, and it will be worked out by the storage in the orchestration layer so it can have the storage in the computer in the right place. >> Wow. Great story, Matt, as always. And I think it's Pierre calls this the unfair advantage coming to life. Best of luck for the rest of the 2019 season. >> I'll take it. >> All right, We'll see you next time. >> Thank you. >> Keep before >> for David Dante. I am Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube from Cure Accelerate in Austin, Texas.

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue. Now, here's your host. Day Volonte. >> Hi, >> everybody. Welcome to this cute conversation. I'm Dave Volonte and Stew Minuteman is here with me. We're gonna break down a w s kind of give you Ah, midyear What's happened so far this year with all the events that we've been covering and what to look forward to? Uh, the N Y C Summit is coming up stew. It's been a big year. Obviously. What we came off a re invent. Amazon's got $30,000,000,000 run rate business growing at 40 plus percent per year. That means they're putting 9,000,000,000 of incremental revenue every year into the cloud business. The marketplace, That growth that's roughly as large is tthe e entire Microsoft cloud business, which is astounding >> day that that that's that's the point Amazon definitely has been making for a couple of years. And you're absolutely right. Microsoft is definitely growing at a faster pace than Amazon, and they're running about 75 87 but off a much smaller number. So the incremental add that Amazon has been throwing off the last couple years. Every year they're adding more than an azure every year. So absolutely Amazon, you know, is the lead horse out there. And while you know, the horses on the track behind them are trying fast to catch up Amazon. If you talk about Infrastructures service, AWS is still the lead. >> Well, the big question is. Will that attenuate? And we were at Remember the Nutanix inaugural Nutanix Stop next? Do you rush Pandey, who's very smart guy, somebody we respect a lot. One of the fundamental assumptions they were making is eventually the law of large numbers will catch up to them and know it very well May. But it hasn't yet. I asked John Lovelock, can a company the size of Amazon $30,000,000,000 company grow it for 42% a year? Is that sustainable? And he said, Absolutely. There's nothing to stop them now. Who knows who has the crystal ball? What are your thoughts? >> Yeah, So, Dave, what we saw is Amazon's not sitting still. You know, they always like to say it's always Day one, and if you look at where they're going, the products that they keep throwing off the innovation that they keep moving on and the flywheel that they've had first of customer acquisition with all of the innovations that they're putting out there and the flight well. But I've been talking about the last couple of years the label of data, which is something we want to be a little concerned about. How much data Amazon actually does have both Amazon AWS and Amazon, with all those intelligent devices that are in your homes and connecting everything together. Some people are a little concerned about that. The government's a little bit concerned about that, but absolutely Amazon is going everywhere. We've seen Amazon going into sub segments of the market, going into verticals and going just really broad, really deep. So absolutely I don't see anything slowing a bit on down. It is a company that continues to impress one of >> the challenges. I think those do that that Amazon does have, and this came out of the reinforced >> conference a couple weeks ago in Boston, which was, Ah, conference for security practitioners, a lot of si SOS chief information security officers. The number one challenge that came out of that when you talk to practitioners was their ability to keep up with the innovations that Amazon is putting forth. So, you know, I wonder if we're gonna talk to some commercial customers. You'll see them down the summit probe to see if, in fact, that's part of their challenge. Just the pace at which Amazon brings out new features. But we've done Gosh, we've covered eight events or will have covered eight events this year. Eight productions. It started in the U. K. Where we covered a public sector health care. And then we did the AWS summit London really all about both public sector in the UK as well as the summit in the UK Innovations in the UK around cloud, etcetera, cloud adoption. 12,000 people at the AWS London summit. Now you covered re Mars, which was not the Cube wasn't there, but you were there. What was that show? >> Yes. So, first of all, it's an Amazon >> show, not a native US show, but absolutely showed underneath where eight of us fits into the fulfillment centers of Amazon. And it was about re Marceau Mars A play of course on space. But it was a machine learning automation, robotics in space. So you had the cool blue origin stuff that actually brought in. Robert Downey Jr talked about how he's going to save the planet with, you know, robotics and intelligence out there to help clean up pollution in the globe on and the like. But it was a phenomenal show, but what I said is actually going to show a little bit underneath the covers of Amazon similar what we've seen from eight of us at the reinvent shows over the years. Because, you know, we all know how many boxes air coming to our, you know, our place of home every day and how fast that's going. And so this is what's happening underneath the robotics and machine learning a lot of those Air AWS Service's that are powering that. So it was a fascinating show, Dave and absolutely showed other relationship between Amazon, the parent company. Eight of us, all those cloud service is that helped feed the bigger business. >> Now, June, the Cube covered the D. C. Public sector summit. This is Teresa Carlson's gig. She's the host. Actually, Andy Jassy was there this time. He wasn't there last year when you and I recovering it. And of course, that's all about bringing cloud to public sector, not just federal but all public sector. It includes AH, non profit and education, which talk about in a minute. The big story. There is a jet. I we're talking about tens of billions of dollars going to ah, contract. Oracle, of course, is fighting it. It's going into the courts. I guess they've been a number of reviews or could won't give up its oracle. Amazon clearly is the front runner. Last I read, it was down to AWS and Microsoft, with AWS being the lead contender there. We'll see what happens. I think the decision is coming down this month, July 2019. But it's really again about bringing cloud innovations to public sector. Public sector tends to take things a little bit later than the commercial like. For instance, last year they announced the the VM wear on AWS was available, so you'll see those kinds of things come maybe a year later. But its again. Another big show there 12. 13,000 people there at the D. C Convention center. >> Yeah, Davey, when you talked about the critique of what's happening in Amazon as Amazon goes deeper into all of these verticals How do they help get that information to the user in a way that they need to run their businesses? So my co host for New York City's Cory Quinn was listen to his podcast this morning and he said, That's where Amazon's got dozens of blog's. They've got so many announcements, they haven't done a really good job, something we've seen many companies do. How do I get to you know that business roll and put it in, you know, verbal that they understand, as opposed to just >> Hey, we had 1000 new features >> come out this year and they're awesome. Then you should use everything s o. You know, that's something that, you know the industry as a whole needs to do better at an Amazon. Just in the nature of how fast they're moving is something that they should be able to do a better job. >> And Jennifer is also gonna be in New York City. And one of things he was stressing at reinforce was the marketplace. We had Dave McCann on the just rocketing. I think it was 100,000 census of security subscriptions. I think it was 1,000,000 subscriptions in total so just an amazing ah momentum in the marketplace. But reinforce was all about security. Deep dives on security, chief information, security officers. What came out of that show the big takeaway was was head of AWS is, uh, security. The chief information security officer, Schmidt said. This narrative in the industry that the sky is falling doesn't do anybody any good. Um, it's not productive. We should be more positive. The state of the cloud union is good, like the president of states is State of the Union is strong. Um, having said that, Amazon talks about the shared security model. The practitioners that we talked to said, Yeah, shared model Amazon's going to secure the the infrastructure of the storage, the compute of the database. We are responsible for our end, and it really is on us to make sure that we are secure. So again, back to that point about the pace of innovation that Amazon is putting forth is a challenge for people. AWS imagine is also going down. I think this week what's that you're >> so it's in Seattle and it's you mentioned the public Sector one in D. C, which is government agencies, nonprofits and education. So imagine is a subset of that. My understanding is the education, a nonprofit piece of that from when you and I were in D. C. Last year for the Public sector summit. It's It is impressive how deep Amazon is going into these spaces, the affinity they have. And really, you know how happy the customers are to be able to move fast. So, you know, when you think about nonprofits and think about education, innovation is not the first thing that usually comes to mind because budgets are tight and I don't have enough people. And usually you've got, you know, whatever's left over. But imagine is them. How do we move these forward? How do we You know, we know we need to help transform education. It's so important to train the next generation. So, you know, imagine there are some great stories that come out of that. Jeffrey loves getting those stories, helping us tell those stories through the Cube platform. And so it's the second year we're doing >> Yes, it would be covering that. And then, of course, reinvent will have two sets again that reinvent this year. The Super >> Bowl of our industry, >> right? Sure. Um, something's going on. So unfortunate incidents in Southern California. Big earthquakes, actually. Multiple earthquakes, Right? You had the physical earthquake, and then you had CO I, leonard going to the Clippers. But so I'm interested in sort of poking at this notion of ground stations. So at reinvent last year, Amazon announced on his own ground station, which essentially was ground station is a service. So if I understand it, one of the challenges okay, You launched the satellites, but you still need a ground station to collect the data and then uploaded and analyze it. That's what AWS is is partnering to put in infrastructure that allows you to essentially rent ground station infrastructure. So, you know, they worry about building it in securing it yourself. Because you think about it. It's got to be a secure location. You gotta have fencing. You got a physical security. You got to get the data in. You gotta upload it to the toe. Where we gonna upload it? So Amazon is basically building this service out, saying Don't worry about the ground station piece. Rent that from us, you know, swipe your credit card. Your ground station as a service, and then we'll ingest that data uploaded to the cloud and then apply all of the tooling that we have to allow you to analyze that data. So if you think about the earthquake of devastation, if you don't have a ground station there, you can, in theory, go to AWS and actually spin up a ground station in jest. You know, on the ground, you know, the ground truth as we like to sometimes talk about and actually get satellite imaging and telemetry in that region, you know, this comes into play things like forest fires and all kinds of of natural disaster. >> Dave, even at the remarks show, I attended a session where one of the Amazon partners was talking about not only just getting the satellite data down, but Justus. They have the snowball edge today, which is, you know, for you know, I ot or some remote sites, but some of these satellites are gonna have the compute and storage at in satellite themselves. So if you think about I'm gonna have these geosynchronous satellites. I'm gonna have all this connectivity. And if I could get a gigabit of Ethernet, you know, traffic going to the satellites and I could do the processing at the edge, which is now up in space. I can process that. And you know, that edge that we talked about get to hold another dimension, you know, off off the terra firma to be able to do those kind of analysis. As you said, earthquakes, you know, all the all the climate discussion that's going on, we should be able to have tap into even more. Resource is, and we'll have to rename Cloud if it even goes beyond the Earth. >> And then, um, outpost is the other story that we've been tracking, attracting a lot of stories, but but outpost is starting to ship in beta form. We've seen instances of >> so, so seeing >> it. We just did a little quick right up. >> I mean, Dave, you know, just a ripple went through the >> industry when they showed Hey, here's Iraq and what they're like. This is the exact same rack that we have in the Amazon data centers and why it's a little surprising because we're allowed to see inside the Amazon Data Center. So it's like, Okay, this is what they're computed awaited to 24 in tracking, supposed to a 19 in track. But that line between the public cloud and my on premises environment absolutely is blurring. So everybody wants to see where Amazon's going. They have the big partnership with VM, where Veum, where is already shipping the solution? That is the same software for that Veum wear on AWS in my data center. So, you know, I can have you know, the Dell hardware with the Veum where code or I can have the Amazon hardware with the VM where code coming later this year without post. So that line between public in private is absolutely blurring. And where to my applications live, You know that that future of how fast is eight of us continue to grow? Absolutely. There are applications and data and things that will stay in my own data center and under my control. But that line is definitely blurring. And there's gonna be some re architectures. It's definitely still gonna take a couple of years to sort some of these things out. But we're at some of those inflection points where we'll see some of >> us. So I wrote a post its upon wicked bond kind of analyzing that video, and there's some interesting things that are unique. There's certainly a lot of goodness in there. Not some of the things they talk about are completely unique. Thio, aws. But things like Nitro and their special virtual ization engine and their special chip on Do you want to get a look at that? You take a look at that video and thence to New York City Summit this week. Um, we mentioned some of the innovations that we've seen up to date this year. A lot of talk I'm sure about the marketplace. >> Yeah, I'm wondering if there'll be any ripples, Dave, because the 1/2 of a chick you, too, was supposed to be in New York City. And now it's not, doesn't mean they don't have a strong presence in New York City like London and believe it's somewhere around 12 to 15,000 people. When I went to New York City two years ago was quite impressive. It is a free show, which means if your customer you get in for free. If you're a partner, of course, you're still paying for everything that goes there. But the regional summits are quite impressive and a great way to get in touch with Amazon and all that they're doing. If you don't want to go to the Super Bowl itself, which is, you know, 50,000 plus now in Las Vegas towards the end of the year. >> Yeah, these air, like many reinvents and they're actually quite good. A lot of a lot of practitioner focused on you're gonna you're gonna see that New York City >> did what I always love about every Amazon show I go to. There are customers that are interested learning new things. How can you do better with what I'm doing? But also, how can I change what I'm doing? How can I move forward? So even if it's not adopting the latest and greatest from AWS, the entire ecosystem is going there to meet with those customers and talk about digital transformation? Modern workforce? All of these hot trends definitely play out. Ground zero is the AWS. >> Yeah, and this is by design. As I said before, the pace of innovation is a challenge for people. It's an adoption blocker and so Amazon wants to educate and share the knowledge so that they can get more adoption. OK, stew. Thanks very much. Good luck. This week. Check out silicon angle dot com For all the news, the cube dot net is where the videos will live and watch. Do on John Ferrier and Corey Quinn. Live and check out the cuban dot com for all the research. Thanks for watching Everybody Day, Volonte and Stupid Event. We'll see you next time.

>> live from London, England. It's the key covering a ws summat London twenty nineteen brought to you by Amazon Web services. >> Welcome back to London. Everybody, this is David. Continue watching the Cube. The leader in live tech coverage. We're here at the London A ws sum of twelve thousand people here for one day summit, which is typically the size of a large tech event that we cover in Las Vegas. John Lovelock is here is a vice president analyst that gardeners essentially gardeners Chief Forecaster John, Thanks for coming with huge pleasure to have you. Thanks for >> having me. It's a great show today. Great event. Happy to be here. >> You're in from Toronto. And, uh, yeah, I'm very impressed with the crowd. He obviously a developer crowd. You and I aren't ties. They see us coming. They think we're trying to sell him something. Waseem have >> ah, monopoly on all the ties and the rule. We have a very diverse group here, but they're all very enthusiastic. Could be here. It's been a great conference. >> So everywhere we go, we hear numbers. Obviously people want toe talk about the size of the market, its growth. That's your job to figure that out. I mean, I've heard numbers that it's a multi trillion dollar market now, uh, growing faster than GDP. I'd love to get your your thoughts on that. Where do we start? Top level macro. What's the pick? >> Top level macro cloud in all of its forms is the fastest growing tech the gardener is tracking. There is definitely spending in there. We're in the twenty twenty five percent growth globally. Nothing else comes close. Your overall growth rate for Total I'd spend this year is one point one percent cloud a twenty five percent. It is moving the market. The only way is doing that, of course, it's by taking money away from legacy lines of business. You know, it's about the switch and spending preference from legacy it and moving that into clouded in all of its forms. >> So it's a share shift you see going on. So you've got the total market growing below global GDP. Is that is that a fair statement? >> It's just below global TV >> usually tracks pretty closely. You would think right? I mean, it's logical that it would >> actually this almost no correlation between GDP and spend really It is one of the biggest things that we have to fight again. >> So that's a myth. >> Absolute myth here to tell you it is dead. There is a flight co relation, but there's no causation. Yl move between GDP and spending, just not there. >> So that makes your job even harder. It does. We have to >> watch what the vendors. They're selling off what they hope to spend. But most importantly, it's about what the demand side is doing. What are people doing? Why air they buying what they're buying? How much are they spending on the stuff that they have, what's get retired and what gets replaced with something new? And that's the whole big shift that we're seeing is a lot of things that are being retired out of the CEOs bag of tricks and a lot of new things coming in. So the spending shift that we're seeing it's all down to where is the CEO in their journey? Howie? How quickly are they able to move from legacy? I t to the new it How quickly is their business moving into being a digital business? >> So okay, so it's one plus percent growth on what we're talking two trillion, three trillion. I mean, what's the four trillion >> four trillion dollars by twenty twenty? >> Okay, And you said Cloud computing growing its twentieth twenty five percent. Eight of us, a thirty billion dollars run right business now growing at forty two percent. Inconstant currency. We're going in at nearly or maybe even slightly more than twice the market. That's astounding, that basically adding nine to ten million dollars a year. >> And they are right in the sweet spot for cloud growth. Do >> you think they hit the law of large numbers of people have been predicting that for years. Could get a company that size in your experience. Continue to grow at that pace? >> Absolutely there is. There is nothing stopping a ws from taking advantage of this market. We're nowhere near saturated for cloud changes. Most of software spend is still on legacy and maintenance of of software. On Prem. There's still a great deal of money being spent on servers and infrastructure and networking equipment, and all of that gets bled out into the cloud. Eventually, where they have opportunity to shift is almost limitless. You know the amount of money that is being spent by enterprises on cloud is different around the world. In the US, where cloud basically started where the infection started and it's spreading around the world. Back in twenty sixteen, there were about sixty percent of overall enterprise spend was on cloud. The rest of the world is tracking towards that. We have company countries that air close the U. K Canada one two years behind France Germany three four, most of Europe in the three to five years behind. We have some countries that are lagging a little bit further and several dinner just resisting that are not on track to get to cloud. We don't see them getting to cloud even in the ten year times, fam. But the fact that cloud spend in the U. S. Still makes up over fifty percent of global spending on cloud, but only twenty five percent of global spending on it, a lot of money still left to move over. >> That's interesting that that was the facts that's that suggest that there is a delta and cloud adoption between between United States and rest of world that the vendor narrative would not have you believe that? Am I getting that right? Is it? Is it not only slower adoption? What are they they as sophisticated in their adoption, or is there a delta there as well? >> There is a bit of it. There is a delta also in the sophistication. We know that there's a skill gap when it comes to cloud. Everywhere in the world faces the skill gap of the number of people they need with the new skills and cloud and the people they have with the skills that they have. Many companies are missing the fact that some of their Cobol programmers are the ones that should be developing their new cloud applications because it's about changing the business. And nobody knows their business better than the guys that have been writing the legacy apse that have been running the business for the last twenty years. So the training opportunity is actually with their Kobol programs with their long term programmers. We're not seeing that hitting into the market as much as we'd like. >> So your job very difficult job spent. The consolidation makes your job harder in a way, because part of a squint through companies want to tell you what they want to tell you, but you got to figure out what the truth is. When you think about Cloud, it appears relatively straightforward. It's a pure play. They now report their numbers. That must have helped you a lot. But a lot of vendors will throw everything the kitchen sink, you know, numbers for cloud. So you have to parse through that. You have to come up with common definitions across. I mean, good example. Certainly. IBM Oracle broke it out earlier, but now they sort of consolidate everything. One wonders, OK, Where they trying to hide? Not not to pick on people, but their large, established legacy companies. But they want to show their investors. Oh, we're growing at this. The Sirait. So how do you parse through that and squint through that and then come out the other end with the >> real numbers? Well, we have a lot of advantages of Gardner. We spend millions of dollars every year on surveying out globally. We get, we get responses back from CEOs from around the world. We do the largest CEO survey every single year, so we're getting feedback on where the money is being spent. We also have interviews that we do with our clients every single day. We do over two hundred fifty thousand enquiries with clients every year. So we're getting a great deal of feedback from where the money is being spent. We have to reconcile both sides of it. What the vendors air expecting to be what they're telling us that they're making and reconcile ing that with what we're being told is being spent. So we have multiple sides to get to this angle and again. When you start with a vendor, you start with their global revenue. It has to parse out from They're >> gonna match the income statement somehow. But so you've got the empirical data from your surveys. You've got the vendor data. You bottom up. You could do that. And you've got the anecdotal data from your inquiry. You know, your your corporate memory on kind of putting your job is to put all that together. >> Yeah, and we're tracking what we call our peer inside data. We're asking our clients, you know, when they're making a choice which fenders air, they choosing Which friends are they considering? Why did they make the choices? They are. We have our talent neuron database where we're scraping job postings from around the world. So we have somewhere over four billion job postings covering the last five years. So when a company is telling us that they have a large new division, we could go back and say, I don't see you ever hiring those people. So we do have multiple points of light that all really have to come together. It is a tremendously interesting job in a bit of a challenge, but it's one that keeps me up. >> Okay, I often joke. Well, well, Doctor, Uh, Oz. Sorry, Dr Watson. Replace Dr Welby and the answer comes back. Well, you won't replace Dr Oz because you still have to have that nurturing and that interaction. Do you feel as though machine intelligence Based on what? You know, Gardner analysts, You got experts? Many, I'm sure that Follow artificial intelligence machine intelligence. Do you feel like you guys can start applying? Aye, aye. Deep learning, et cetera. To identify patterns to make your job easier, more effective, more science than art. What? Your thoughts on >> that? Well, we have taken a different road. Artificial intelligence requires a lot of good bad data going into it in order to make the right decision. It is changing so quickly. It's difficult to get enough data points together to train and artificial intelligence. We do do some augmentation way. Do have tools that automates certain processes for us and feed us results from multiple millions of data points. But at the end of the day, it's not about coming up with four trillion dollars. That's interesting to anybody. It's the why is it four trillion dollars? Why is it a different four trillion dollars than last year's three point nine trillion dollars? And what's the changing environment that is going >> on >> and the story behind it? The segments, the share shifts and those other trends that you're seeing? >> Because everybody on this floor, all of these eyes start ups, they desperately want to make my number's wrong. They want to change the market in such a dramatic way that they disrupt all of the spending. I can't train in a eye to watch for that >> is your background in econometrics. You an economist? Do you have a math whiz or you're computer scientist? >> All of that, Yeah, have degrees in economics and statistics. I have forty years almost in computer programming been through this cycle for many, many times. So I did a great job from he has all of my sword skill sets coming together. >> You're obviously not a one man band. You mentioned you do, you know, spend millions of dollars on surveys. Two hundred fifty thousand enquiries, but still hurting all that data and actually making sense of it, is it is. It is a challenge. How do you How do you manage that? How are you evolving your your systems, your models? I mean what you used today The tooling is different than it was ten years ago, and you've gotta stay. Current >> are are forecasting model generically. We call the market dynamic models, and what they do is build out user behavior. Where's demand coming from? How are we fulfilling on that demand? What do we do with the investments that we've already made? The's models run from nineteen eighty through twenty thirty. It takes somewhere in the neighborhood of eight hundred thousand calculations to come up with one segment forecast for forty three countries. We have over two hundred fifty segments that we forecast, so you could see the complexity that we're getting into. There are over two hundred fifty analysts that gardener who are working on from what we call her our technology and service provider research group, to help our vendor clients know where their market is, know where it's going, and the partners that they should be looking >> towards you factor in or how do you factor in if it all your geo political trends? Um, tariffs, things of that nature. What do you say? You know what we're gonna do? A clean forecast on DH. Let the market figure that out. How do you handle it? At >> the end of the day, there's two very important pieces within a model. They break into signal and noise. The signal is the shifting buying patterns. When the demand level changes, there's a signal there when a choice pattern changes. Instead of buying license software, I'm starting to buy Cloud. That's a signal change. Those are the things that we focus on. The stuff that you were talking about the economic situations brexit, terrorists, China. Those were all noise. They're important. They have to be taken account of in the model, but they're not the most important thing. All right, Brexit right now is depressing the US air, the European spending on it. It is below that one point one percent growth rate. Because of the uncertainty. People are keeping their finger, their hands in their pockets when it comes to big changes in it. But the big shift is still happening. We're still seeing movement towards cloud. We're still seeing movement towards digital business. All those big signals air there, there dampened a little bit by the noise of the economy. >> So the rip currents obviously cloud. You mentioned that digital business, which I interpreted is data orientation toward a business a little >> bit more with you. >> But please add some color to that. And what are some of the other rip currents that you're seeing? >> Artificial intelligence is another riptide that is moving through. It is a big trend that is changing what's expected of technology at every level. Digital business is changing what's expected of customer interactions at every level. Digital business ecosystems, where companies air able to interact in a way that moves data from one organization to the other without necessarily having trust, commitment or a contract is a major change that we're seeing it reduces the friction of handoff between one business and the other speeds. The process drops the cost. >> A lot of your clients are large, established businesses, gardeners well known for advising those businesses. Many of those businesses, their data lives in silos. They have legacy infrastructure, technical debt. Call it whatever you want it, and they're getting disrupted by these. You know, the guys who were doing Cloud Native, all the guys out here that want to make your full forecast wrong. How does Gardner see just sort of anecdotally, those guys closing the gap, the traditional, the incumbents closing that gap >> into the source extent they don't have to, right? Certainly their size is going to give them longevity. Whether they make change or not, they will see their influence on the market. Chip away if they don't start to, they don't have the same urgency is the small vendors that are moving quickly. Where we see them doing things is very patiently and incrementally, they're taking different processes and moving them to the cloud. It is very common to see them take something that they're already doing are comfortably doing and moving that to a new platform and improving that small piece incremental change. The world gets better with incremental change. Where we love to see them do something is where they actually change the business model first using the technology that's going to enable that we have the company in China who has managed to get home food delivery cheaper than buying it in a restaurant because they change the business model First. They work with the places that are selling the food they're doing group on their doing direct cash, ordering they're doing guaranteed sale so that they could get food less expensively. They're using artificial intelligence to workout delivery routes and pick up so that multiple deliveries are made at the same time. In most of the world, that's not the That's not been the model. They've changed one part of delivery. We're going to make it easier for you to order food on your phone, and then we're going to charge you for the delivery, and we're going to charge you more for the food that's coming in. That's incremental. It's nice, it's helping. But when we change the model first, the outcome is so much better. >> So last course of U. S. Largest market, right? In terms >> of largest market for fifty eight percent of cloud. Spend >> little nightie spending Generally correct. Correct. China. When do you think Do you think China will overtake The U. S. Is the largest market for I spent >> china right now. Is Scott almost double the growth and cloud spending of the U. S. It is as a percentage of spends still well below. But they're the only country that is breaking the trend of following the US. They're on a much steeper incline. They could be above the US spend by twenty twenty five, even with a growth rate that the U. S. Is on. >> John. Awesome having you on. Thanks so much for having me really a pleasure having you great insights from Gardner analyst John Lovelock. And you're watching the Cube were bringing it all to you live from London this day. Volonte, we're right back right after this short break

>> live from London, England. It's the queue covering a ws summat. London twenty nineteen Brought to you by Amazon Web services >> Welcome back to London Summit Everybody, this is David Lamont and you watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We loved to go out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. This is our one day coverage of a WS summit London, and it's packed house twelve thousand people here. The twenty six thousand people registered, which is just outstanding. Chris Bunches. Here's the general manager of a MIA for cloud reach, and he's joined by Mark Randy, whose CEO of signal FX. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you. >> Okay, let's start with signal effects. What's going on at the show? What's the buzz like? >> Very busy. Dozens deep. A lot of demonstrations feature in our massively scalable metrics platform and distributed tracing platform. So we've had a very good show. Good showing in London. >> Good. We're going to get into some of that. Chris, tell us about cloud reach. What you guys do? >> Sure. So Cloud Reach was founded in two thousand and nine. So quite a long time ago in the history of cloud confusing, at least >> was right after the Cloud City with >> quite a pure vision around helping complex organizations to adults public cloud computing technologies to doom or faster and better. That's all we've ever done. It's all we ever intend to do way work these days with enterprise organizations across the cloud lifecycle starting with adoption, helping them to understand White Cloud. How am I going to do this? How am I going to move my data center's into the cloud? How am I gonna build new services moving on through the life cycle? We help them with that. At that migration, we helped them to shut down their data centers on rebuild them in a WS. We helped build New Cloud native Services. Using the latest offerings from from Amazon and other cloud providers, we worked with him on Data analytics, helping them to generate insights from their data. Data flows in an ever faster pace from across the across the world into their organization. On all of that is wraps with an MSP manage service twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. >> So, Mark, I gotta ask you so back back in the day, the narrative was that the public law was going to kill every man, his service provider out there. It's been nothing but a tailwind for your business. Business is booming. What's what actually happened to give you that? Left >> on the signal effects side I look, the big trends are the move to the cloud number one. The second piece is just a change in the architecture's you know, the move to communities, the introduction for elastic burst e type use cases of things like Lambda and and that even more importantly, just the process of developing software movement from, you know, waterfall, Dad, agile and the Whole Dev ops movement in introduction of micro services. So that's it's It's just a lot of a lot of these ways been going on for quite some time, but they're really starting to hit the shore to shore right now, and I think it's been a great great opportunity for companies like Cloud Reach Tio to take advantage of were very excited by the partnership. >> Well, it has. It has ripple effects on the rest of the business, doesn't it? I was saying earlier in a segment that it used to be the business of No, we can't do that because and now you look around this audience, it's all doers and builders, and, you know, it's it's actually great marketing because it works, doesn't it? So clouded has been a fundamental component of >> Yeah, I mean, our whole businesses around making t v enabler helping businesses to innovate. Once upon a time, the message was all around. Cost saving is the reason to move to the cloud, and there's still an element of that. Nobody wants to pay Mohr, but actually, increasingly, what we're seeing is organizations moving to Amazon because they want the agility, they want to move faster. And they don't want to be the the culture of no and have a process that takes six months to deliver a new service to the business. They want to be out of deliver things in hours or minutes in the some cases, and they want to do so quickly on they want to innovate, a pace that they've never been able to before, partly from a competitive threat perspective and partly from a market opportunity. There's so much, but we can deliver to customers if we put our minds to it and use the primitives, the Amazon providers, as building blocks to enable new >> services. You know where you live in the Bay Area. I spent a lot of time out there, were based in Palo Alto and use a vortex that unique that sometimes I think way think that that's where all the action is. You come to London and you see all these startups. Every business is becoming a software company. And you know, we don't in Silicon Valley in America have a monopoly on innovation anymore, >> not even close. So there's a lot of great innovation all over Europe. Uh, here in the U K. All the way to Northern Europe, Doc, uh, Paris Way we see it across the board. So >> So what are people doing? They building new cloud native APS in the public loud. Are they doing a lifted shift and trying to get more agility out of those traditional APs? What's the landscape? Looks like? >> It's ah, combination of the two. The startup organizations, of course, is starting with no legacy. There's nothing to my great and they are building cloud native and they're doing so far, >> we have no I d >> no. Yeah, technically, before nine years, four hundred on eBay test migrations. But that's the only hardware for the museum. Exactly the larger organizations. They have huge volumes of legacy infrastructure, some of it dating back to the seventies. In the case of financial institutions or public sector, then all of that is an opportunity to modernize, and not just for the agility and innovation but in some cases just to reduce risk. There is huge business risk in these old, untouched, dusty, cobweb ridden servers that nobody understands anymore. And there's a really opportunity to move that to the public cloud, reduce and remove that risk. And while you're there, take advantage of the new technologies and innovative deliver a better service to you or in consumer whoever that may be >> so prik uber, Netease and micro services, even though containers have been around for a while. But the modern doctors ascendancy. You know why? To K was the year of the decade of modernization. It was like four or five years leading up to y two K at some I T shop said, Okay, we're going to modernize, but but none of these micro services existed, so it really was. It was about dates, maybe some application portfolio rationalization. What's different today that I could take those apse that were written in the seventies with a lot of custom code? How am I able to modernize, though >> I think it's the maturity of the services. You look at something a platform like Amazon. There's one hundred twenty hundred thirty, or Mohr. It grows almost every week. Building blocks primitives, the Amazon are providing, and its a rating on it. At an incredible rate on DH, there's almost a service for everything. And when you think they've run out of services to introduce, a new services is created. And, you know, we talked about micro services. They introduced Lambda back in two thousand fourteen, which was there. Serve Elice environment driving event based micro services architectures, and it's ahead of the game. It's ahead of the curve. It's causing people to think very differently about what's even possible from a night perspective. And there's no way. In most organizations, you, Khun, build that kind of infrastructure on that kind of platform that is build and costs you on a Microsoft microsecond basis. I mean, it's it's >> incredible. It was amazing. I remember the first virtual machine. It would be anywhere that I saw spun up like, Wow, this is going to change the world. And then the cloud comes along like a while. This is going to change the world. And now survivalists. I don't even have to deploy servers anymore. It's side by Amazon >> way. See this? Even even in some of the more traditional organizations we we worked with in the UK and in Germany and France and elsewhere, you don't even need to be looking at service. Just the ability toe programmatically spin up a virtual machine without a human touching anything. That's incredible to some organizations, right? They're used to it, taking six months to provision of infrastructure to deploy an application. Now they can click a button, and by the time they've made a cup of coffee, it's it's up and running, and it's It changes the way people >> think So much Talk about Cloud Region signal effects. What's the partnership like between you two and what's your partnership like with eight of us? >> Um, on the cloud reach side, we went through an extensive evaluation by cloud reach, and over several months they evaluated all the alternatives on the market and ended up selecting us to be their standard for their many service provider business. It's We're super excited about that. On the go for it, we're rolling that out with them there. Current customer based on DH. We were hoping that, uh, using signal effects, that cloud reach that will help them be the point of spear on all cloud native. You know, in their marketplaces, they go pursue other customers, so it's pretty excited about. >> So it's not a pressure release deal, not a Barney deal. Like we like to say that >> they're up there, They're a paying customer. And, you know, I made a big bet on signal effects going forward. >> So why the choice to go with manage service provider? You have You could have built it yourself and take us through that. >> Yeah. I mean, the nature of the business we're in is very much predicated on the fact that you don't build it yourself. You know, you look at the market and if somebody is already doing it well and provides excellent service as a commodity, you use it. We've been in the MSP space since round about twenty ten very soon after the the company was was founded, and we know it pretty well. We have a large customer base. We are one of the top tier MSP for along the major cloud vendors in the world, lots of large organizations. However, as we look to refresh our tooling with a view on Maura, an application centric approach, which is what all of our customers want and expect a CZ we look to micro services and the very latest platforms and technologies he's being released by the hyper scale cloud vendors. We recognize the need for a newer, more modern tooling on DH. After a thorough evaluation, a CZ mark says signal effects came out on top. Why is that? Partly it's the cloud native element. You know, some of that sounds a little bit like a marketing buzzword, but in reality, what it means is the company was founded relatively recently and as a result, was geared towards modern technology. So out of the box they support doctor, they support containers, they understand, and they're orchestrated around micro services. It deals with scale on volume, and we we want to low test things in a big way. We only serve large scale and surprise customers. And they are going to throw tens of thousands of containers on micro services at their tooling, and it has to be able to track tto handle that massive volume of transactions. >> It's a complicated picture, actually. You know, sometimes micro services aren't so micro. Yes, and you've got to secure all these containers. Got spinning up of'Em is easy. >> Well, >> you see multiples. So how do you guys deal with that? I mean, you're obviously experts at it, but But give us the sales pitch >> on. Yeah. So I think you kind of you covered it earlier with, You know, all these great new technology with introduction of micro services. I mean, developers in our writing it the running it, they're pushing code directly into production environment. You know, you went from releasing code once or twice a year, a few years back now toe several releases and you know your people lifting shift. They're starting with a few micro services. Someone we're getting up into the hundreds, even thousands in our most advanced deployments. It it it ends up being worth a situation Where Alright, all this innovation is great, but it also introduces a ton of complexity. And based on the way we've architect of our system, really time streaming like within seconds, you're going to need to see it, to react to it, whatever the use cases. And that's what differentiates signal FX is this massively scalable streaming architect we built for from a Metrix platform standpoint and then from an Eastern West standpoint for your from your custom code are Micro Services, a PM solution on top of that to go help measure what those transactions air how they're performing across the entire complex environment. So we feel like we're just purpose built for today to help in the lift and shift crowd and or for the more advanced customers, they're intothe point dozens, if not hundreds of micro services. >> Tell me more about this metrics platform you mentioned a couple times. What is that all about? >> Well, we start with essentially, you know, the three big pillars are logs, metrics and eight p. M. And you know, our company was found it. We have deep roots. Back in the two thousand seven ranges, our founders were you know, they built the monitoring stack at Facebook and so had several years, you know, kind of earning and learning that secret. You know, in the early days, they didn't call it Dev Ops. Back then they called it move fast, break things, didn't call >> it. They didn't call it >> a micro services. I mean, and then twenty, twenty, thirteen, early, two thousand fourteen. That's when the founders got together and started. The company is also the same time frame. Doctor came out. Were just purpose built for this for this environment. >> Final thoughts. Yeah. Thie event where you guys were headed. Maybe little road map, if you could. >> The event has been incredible. Every year it gets a little bit bigger. It gets a little bit more exciting. There's, ah, bigger range of organizations, different industries. And it changes a little bit over time. This year, financial services has been particularly of interest for us, but this event is a lot of large large banks, investment houses, those kind of companies here on DH. That's been really exciting for us. I think trend I'm most excited about is really around machine learning. Amazon talked about it in the keynote this morning and democratization of very, very complex technology bring it to the masses is a as a manage service that can be provisioned in minutes and seconds. And to me that something that's that's really exciting and using the signal FX platform, we're now in a position to provide manage service wrappers around the machine learning based solutions that we build for our >> customers. Yeah, the financial services. Interesting. Back in two thousand nine when you started, a lot of the banks in New York thought they could scale and compete essentially with KWS >> world. The world changes very quickly. Absolutely >> final thoughts for you. >> Yeah, I think they think we're moving past that point. You know, even the later adopters. I think we're moving past that point and look at that name there getting pressure from the startup community, whether it's intact or or any industry's gonna have that type of pressure. You talked about that y two k moment. I think in any vertical out there, it's that you know those cloud native type companies the companies are becoming software companies were going toe transform yourself or you're going to have some pressure from the start up going forward. We're >> guys. I'm thrilled that you could make time to come in the queue. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us. All right. Keep it right there. But it is. Dave Alonso will be back with our next guests right after this short break. You watching the Cube from London? Eight of US Summit right back.

>> fly from San Francisco. It's the Cube covering Google Club next nineteen, right Tio by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to San Francisco, everybody. You watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. And we're here at the new improved Mosconi Center covering Google next twenty nineteen. I'm Dave along with my co hosts. Two minutes to get to see you. Russell Warming is here. He's the head of infrastructure at AutoTrader UK. Russell, Thanks for coming on the Cube. You very welcome. AUTOTRADER uk not to be confused with the U. S. Not a lot of you guys. They're separate cos >> yet completely separate. So way operate the largest automotive marketplace in the UK something like the sixteenth busiest website in the UK around fifty five million cross platform visits each month on average. Probably about five hundred thousand vehicles that were advertising out. Tio consumers >> are traitors. Awesome website If your eyes are second biggest purchase typically behind the home and and so Stew was asking you earlier if you if digital transformation meant anything to you and you said Well, we kind of went through a ten years ago yet, and it's kind of true You guys were like born in the Internet company would talk about >> that. So our heritage is that we've been around for forty forty years. We started producing magazines back in nineteen seventy seven. And then in ninety six, we would launched our first website on DH. We've basically just migrated those revenues from our print business online. And then about two thousand thirteen. We stop printing magazines all together. So we're truly digital business now, >> and people talk about digital transformation oftentimes in the context of data. So maybe talk about some of the things that you're doing in your business, some of the challenges that you face, where data fits in and we'Ll really get into it. >> Okay, so I'm we've got a couple of areas where we've been on premise for our data centers. Wave had that strategy for probably about fifteen years, and we've started to reach limits in terms of how we manage capacity within their on what we found is using cloud services as really enables so unlock capabilities, particularly around things like data on their. More recently, when we're thinking about using Cuban eaters and SDO, we've been able to take advantage of things like some of the security features, mutual tear less and service discovery. >> All right, so they also bring us inside your organization a little bit. You're head of infrastructure? Yeah. What does that mean to your business today? >> So way basically run the platform that runs auto trader dot co dot uk on were responsible for making sure that's available twenty four seven three six five So way. Want to make sure that we're able to give our internal customers the ability to release new applications new features as quickly as they want, but also that we're ensuring that our consumers are retailers get a great experience that it's fast performance secure. >> Yeah, and it could give us tease out a little bit, just kind of the scope, how many people you have and how do you balance the stuff that kind of is under your purview and the stuff that you manage that is outside of your four walls. >> So there's about twenty five people within the team. There's probably about ten people building the infrastructure and about fifteen people that are responsible for monitor in it. So we're not a big organization in terms of operations in infrastructure on. We have to work very closely with our product squads because we manage some elements of it. But we're dependent on them managing other elements as well. So we're trying to unlock platform capabilities so that we've got consistency that we're trying to provide those those capabilities rather than going off on finding something else. >> You've got infrastructure on Prem and you've got infrastructure in the cloud to cloud services, right? Yes. So oftentimes those aren't the same. But talk about your situation and you're on a journey, I presume. >> Way started about forty months ago, building out our cloud services on DH. Probably in the last four months, we've really started accelerating that that migration plan of applications moving it up into into Google Cloud on DH. Our ambition is to get that done in eighteen months because the complexity of managing multiple environments is something that we want to try and avoid. Minimize that. >> So is the aspiration to go all in >> waiting absolutely way. We've taken a view that for services that we can we'll take money services and then everything else will be cloud first >> believe I heard you say Cooper Netease is in the mix now. Can you explain where that fits? How you're using it? >> So that see, that's the platform that we're using. Teo. Build out all our applications in the clouds so that that's that's That's a lot of important >> air using any communities in your data center today? No, not all from a cloud. That's the platform layer that using the >> public? Absolutely so when we talked about should we use Cuban? It is way did discussed. Should we do it on Prem or do it in the cloud? And we just figured that we didn't want the overhead of managing it ourselves on prime, we thought it be better just to take it as a service almost and manage up in the cloud. >> Most of the shows we go too many of them, anyway. It's too, and I and the Cube they talk about multi cloud, and we often say multi cloud as a function of multi vendor. But certainly way heard today from Google. A multi cloud. What's your cloud strategy? Because there there's another camp that says, Well, if you do, multi cloud is more complex, it's less secure, it's more expensive. Are you trying to be kind of unit cloud or is that horses for courses? >> So we're three clouds today. So our data platforms, it's partly in G C P. But then partly in another cloud provider on then we're also for our enterprise applications were using another cloud provided because it makes sense to do so. So we want to use the right cloud for the right applications. I think that most of our customer facing applications will end up in G C. P. But some of the back end services my end up in of the cloud provide us >> Okay, so it's strategic fit based on the application? Absolutely. So what is the wheelhouse of of of? Of Google, in your view, from a customer's perspective. >> Um, so the fact that Cuban eighties was developed by Google is a really strong play there. It gives you confidence that they know Teo to look after it. Things like SDO have made a massive difference to our organization as well. We part of the reason why we've ended up using GDP was based on using SDO, and that was around solving a specific problem that we had so that those of the sort to to solve areas that we focused on. >> Just when you look at you know, you've got that hybrid, multi cloud environment that we find is pretty much the standard today. Can you speak a little bit of the management layer? How you look at that, you know, Is it good enough today? And what what? What could the industry do to make it even better? >> It's good enough for our needs. I think that the challenge that you've always got is data ingress and egress between between clouds as you want to move data or query data, making sure that you could do that in a secure way. That's probably the biggest challenge that you'd have on also around the cost of doing so. Those you know, those are probably the bigger challenges >> in the challenges. The cost in time of moving data is its security or the above. Maybe you could dig into that little bit. >> It's probably a little bit of all the above. If I'm honest, I think you could do so much to security plight. Private VP ends Between Between the cloud providers It's I guess that's the time and actually moving some of that data between the clouds is that there's a challenge, and then they cost. Like I say, it's difficult to predict how much it might cost you two to move some of that >> big challenges and from a business perspective that a driving your technology strategy, obviously you want consumers coming to your site. You want to make that as rich as possible for them. You've gotta monetization strategy as well. But you talk a little bit about the business drivers that are affecting your technology. >> Okay, so consumer demand is constantly changing. Technology is massively disrupting how people think about search for cars. We can see that there's a demanding in the in the marketplace for people just to be ableto choose it, choose a car on DH, have that customizing delivered. They want tohave complexity around how they look for finance on their cars. They want all that sort of taken away. They don't wanna have to turn up tio a car showroom and then go through the same conversation that live with salesperson that they've just gone through online. They want that journey to be seamless, so there's some challenges that the industry facing trying to do that where we're trying to help our retailers, providing those services that customers want. So to be able to understand what the part ex valuation is on their car before they turned up to the dealership and know that it's going to get honored because they've got to trust in it so they can understand what, what making spend on a monthly faith on what cars are available. So we're trying to change what we provide to our consumers on also to support our retailers. Manage that changes well, >> Russell thinks a really great point. You make way. No many industries, and especially your industry, is changing really fast. So what are those stresses and strains mean to the infrastructure team in Oak and maybe talk a little bit about the relationship of kind of business? Tow it how that's changed in the last few years. >> So probably over the last ten years, it has always been seen as the sort of the blocker in terms of making sure that new products and features become become available quickly on our role is really to make sure that we're providing the infrastructure at the right time for people so that they can basically just dial it in when they need it. So if they want to release a new application, they don't need to come and speak to somebody in ops to stop provisional server. They just create a pipeline, deploy their application and then the service provisioned at the same time. On we do things like checking for a Wasp Bonham abilities at the same time and making sure that the application and the infrastructure is working hand in hand. So we've taken a lot of that dependency away from people, sort of with handoff points and everything. >> You're a business that has obviously transformed over the years. I think you said you started in the sixties seventies seventies is a publisher basically, paper printing presses and the like. Nineteen ninety six is when you went online. Is that right? So that early days pretty much of the Internet. So the heart, uh, and so you've proven that you could transform forward thinking. I'm wondering what the conversation might be like inside the company about things like autonomous vehicles. Is there a day that comes where owning your own vehicle is the exception rather than the norm? What implications that might have for your business. It's very hard to predict, obviously, But are you having those kind of conversations? You have other lines of business that you're launching toe >> say you're absolutely right. Those those things are area of concern on wave people, constantly looking at new and emerging changes in threats across the whole industry. On DH, they are absolutely looking at how that might impact our business. What we're actually seeing, though, through research that we've done is people still aspire to own car. So car ownership is still something that people want to want to look at with regards to the second part of your question. We are ultimately focus, that is, that's where we are. We don't operate outside of the UK and Ireland. We absolutely focus on our core on making sure that the services that we offer around that really support our customers need, whether that be consumer or retailer. >> Well, it's interesting that the auto industry really has it been wildly disrupted. I mean, you certainly see Tesla and people talk about autonomous vehicles, but still, the big car makers, they're still doing quite well. They dominate the market so and so it's going to take some time, you know, and there's some skeptics out there, but it's very interesting to see how you guys evolve, what other opportunities you go after. I want to ask you. So Google next is coming to tow London in November. How important is it for you? As somebody is based in the UK tohave, Google have local events like that? I mean obviously a traveling a far distance to come to this event. How important is that to you as a customer? >> It's important for us to be able Teo, get more people involved in the conversation. There's obviously a cost on time effort in terms of coming out tio something here. But it's in The scale of this is enormous in comparison to what we see in the UK, but it just means that having that presence in the U. K. Means that we can just get more of our engineers in front of the right people tohave a better conversation, understand more about what's coming and how we might be able to use that within our business >> things that so you just sort of near early on in your cloud journey. But knowing what you know, and you get it early on, I think you might do differently if you had a mulligan, you want to do over again our advice you give to your colleagues and piers. >> So I think the big thing that we found is modest modernizing applications Before you start moving them into the cloud, I think there is a tendency, Probably way we're in the in the cloud, probably about nine years ten years ago and we bought those workloads back on prime. And the reason why we did that is because we didn't treat them differently way manage those instances in the same way that we managed on prime, which is completely do a wrong way to do it, in my opinion. So we needed to change our mind set in terms of how we manage the infrastructure. You need to make sure that you re architect your applications, that you are taking advantage off the features and functionalities things like auto scaling, that you plan for failure. All those things that you typically control on Prem. You have to think about differently in the clouds. >> We will talk about this a lots to changing, the operator >> said that the long pole in the tent is, you know, modernized those applications. Any change? Migrations is really tough. So but do you have a time for him? How long would take you to get to that? All in that you're planning on >> eighteen months, Cesar, that's >> not just a lift, Did Shift >> S O. That is a modernization. But the approach that we've taken and is to try and give the people the confidence and courage really to go at it is we've picked ofsome easier applications. So this journey about being cloud native, we started six or seven years ago, and we've started getting people building their applications on our private cloud. And those ones have been really easy to move on to the public cloud and some of the applications that I've been a little bit trickier that I've been on our short traditional virtual ization platform. We're trying to pick those off in parallel, so you do one that's really easier one that's a bit harder. So you give people confidence and then you're trying to solve some tricky problems alongside it, and I think that just incrementally gives you more confidence that you're moving in the right direction. >> Right straight. Just like skiing on the then the blacks. And they go into the greens and they're making your moves. >> Just just a little bit. A little bit harder each time you got it, but yeah. >> Russell, thanks so much for coming in. The queue was great. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you for watching. We'll be right back from Google next in San Francisco.

>> Live from San Francisco. It's the cube covering IBM thing twenty nineteen brought to you by IBM. >> Hey, welcome back here when we're here. Live in San Francisco for IBM. Think twenty nineteen, two cubes Exclusive coverage. I'm over here, students to it's been four days. Were our fourth day powered through a lot of interviews. Obstructing the Civic Lanois number one live event covers a Cuba to great guests here. Ashutosh Mooney, vice president, Applications services with an IBM and carried to lose chief technology officer nationwide Building society in the UK Great to have you guys. Thank you, John, for applications. Big part of the focus because the applications air now dictating the data strategy. The II with a and you could cloud multi cloud underneath. So the chained, changing market requirements around what, after doing are super important? All this is a focus. It's dictating that the infrastructure what to do so that this is the key to the cloud. Talk about what you guys are doing. >> Absolutely, absolutely, in fact, not just for IBM. For clients, mostly for them to be able to ready for their customers, they need to make sure that their applications are up there for their customer experience as well. What we're seeing is most of these supper clients today are saying that all the work that they have done in past for the last five, ten years that's the core that they have been in there trying to look at how they can minimize the spend on that and maximize the spending a ll. The customer facing applications like to enhance the customer experience >> they call and you call that the workload? Oh, yes. Load is code for applications. Carry your customer of IBM. Let me explain what you guys do first. Then we can talk about some things you're working on, >> So we are a large, UK based mutual building society. We have about fifteen million members in the U. K. But you can think of us as a bank. In many respects, most people do. Challenge throws us, as you said, is basically we have thirty or forty years of legacy technology. We need to transform that technology and also bill the next generation digital services alongside that technology. So if Rose, it's the combination of how do we transform that legacy core whilst also building from you? >> And what are some of the use case is that the new technology going bring you because containers has been great with legacy because you don't kill the old to bring in the new. As you look at the modern modernization journey, you're on What is guiding principles? One things you guys are looking at, how you guys thinking that through? >> Okay, so a number of things. One is we've been on a thirty year journey towards looser and looser coupling on smaller and smaller micro services. So what you're starting to see is big applications, monolithic applications being broken down into services and the micro services. So for us, the key is the smaller and smaller micro services. The more agility we can create more value great. And that loose coupling them becomes really important because that then allows us to deliver a high level of parallelism in development in change. So those are two key areas. >> It has it going today. Good scar tissue. You learning its >> learning and its iterating and it's failing and its understanding. But the main thing is, you know, the more we do, the more we learn, the more we can then build that back into Nick's situation. >> Actually, I always love to hear, especially the financial services ones that have been around a while that that modernization and how they do that, I couldn't help but notice. You're both wearing the, you know, I heart a I the shirts. So if you connect the dots for us between that application modernization and the wave of a ay >> yeah. So I heard that Tom fail fast and fail regular. I mean, it's all good until you actually have atleast one success, right? Failing fast is good, but you cannot escape feeling. So where it comes into play is primarily making sure that you're basing your those decisions on what have been proven right in Pastor's. Well, so what we have seen, especially for financial services, is even though the system's off engagement has changed the fundamental principles on which the banking services all the insurance services operator has not changed. So you're still wearing the same set of services just in different ways. The expectation of the client has changed, but the services remain the same. So our ability to be ableto look at what we have been doing in past which services makes sense to be Microsoft's enabled us getting talked about. It's not that you just take all the functions and enable them. That's where we're able to bring value Tour Kari. What's the impact >> on this on your ultimate and user >> better value? So for us, it's about helping our members, who are customers, to make better financial decisions on. To do that, they need data. So what we're trying to do is to really take that Legacy estate, which is really about locking data into the course. Or we can use it trying to liberate that day to get it out into the hands of our members so they could make better decisions on a eyes were really keep part of >> you. I mean that that was what we think back to. That wave of big data was the I should be able to have smaller companies, you know, not take years and millions of dollars to be able to do that. Tell us what's different about, you know today in a I that that we might not have been able to do five years >> ago. There's a couple of things, really. So one is compute power. So what you're seeing really is eyes is not necessarily advancing massively in terms of the algorithms and the approaches in the methodologies. What you're seeing, though, is compute power in storage capacity growing at an exponential rate store. So what it's doing is enabling those algorithms to work in a way that they've never been able to do before. We're getting to value quicker because the time it takes to reach that value is much shorter. >> I want to get your perspective on you mentioned parallel breaking down, decoupling things with looser sets the services. This is certainly the cloud way make AP eyes have micro services. Big part of it. How is that going from a culture standpoint? Because this is one of the things we hear all the time is it's a cultural journey to one. Get people lined up with that. And then what if some of the business benefits that you see what this parallel isn't? His efficiency is an innovation. Where do you see that culture? What did What did you do to change the culture? Go. Cheers. Um, this is what people want to know about. >> So in fact, what we're seeing is a majority of the clients have started to look into this because everybody else was because somebody digital native out there was doing it, so they some of them actually last on too quickly. They have not been ableto change their internal culture within the organization when the customers were ready, but their internal organizations or not. But I think plants like Cup NBS have sought out a fairly good strategy, and it will be great to get if you can >> share with your secret sauce that you like Carrot Stick. They were gonna go this way or you burn the boats, as they say at the How did you get people to go in the right direction? >> For us? There's a really, really important related past this the culture of the people from a culture perspective. You know, we've got teams of people who have been doing phenomenal pieces of work for thirty forty years coming to the end of their career. And you know, the technology that we're using again, we're looking at and the service life. So how do we how do we get away from that world where we're constantly focusing on the legacy to start focusing on new technology? So it's bringing in new people with new ideas. It's changing the way we work, so we started to focus on things like our child. They've ops, automation, new ways of working to allow people to really sort of liberate away from the old ways of working and give them new ideas and new opportunities. That's part of that as well. There's a couple of things in there for us which is really important. So one is bringing new technologies in bringing new people in that Khun, use those technologies. We also have to make sure we keep our own people trained up as well, so we can't forget the people that we've got. So it's it's a set of different things, >> and training is critical. Was gonna open source out there. It's like, you know, every years like a dog here, and you gotta keep up to date, Keep learning >> and all these aspects of procreation, right? So you cannot do it in isolation if you're doing it together. I mean, whether use design, thinking or not right, that's it. That's it. That's the way to do it. But I think the aspect of co creating in your end stakeholders and your own stakeholders, Orin more >> talk about more about that, cause this is a big team co creation we love doing with content were in the Q. We're doing it here with constant when you get into development. This is a new psychological dynamic, but also it's a productivity opportunity. Can you share what you're seeing there? Explain co creation a litte bit deeper >> Look so that we talk hypothetically, right? So from hypothetical perspective, if we were able to look at organization or a flat form where were able to access an amount ofthe computational power computation skills are programming skills. Our ability to be able to do the most creative expects for any use case and industry would be enormous. We just don't have that. We're limited to specific parts that were working with the Limited with specific employees that we have Andrea limited to the customers that were kids, and I think if we expand, so while we don't have, uh, handle off all the things that we haven't played. But if you are able to bring in our customers or internal stakeholders as well as our partners that we're working with and are able to build a common team and one of those common themes could be that I need to get you those services quickly and then figure out how to three can actually work in tandem we'll be able to make. >> How does that change your engagement model? Because I might be the same in eight days there, Miss Captain. Well, we used to do that before we usedto partner and understand their needs Bring solutions to the marketplace. Is it more software driven? So what's changed from the old way to the new way? Because I don't agree with you, by the way, I'm not I'm not a skeptic, but, yeah, that was what skeptic might say. >> Yeah, no, I think earlier what was happening was they were It was more offering leg and what I mean by offering letters these of the sex I have. And let's make these assets find the solutions. So what people will do is they will say this is the banking solution I have in this specific case and let's figure out what fifteen things I can >> do without those solutions. >> Approach now is different. They approach now is This is what the customer is demanding and the reason they're demanding is because customers expectation is based on there most recent experience that they had somewhere else, not necessarily with the bank. They may have experience and over, so when they have experienced that experience there, they want the similar services from the bank. So now the co creation model is actually starting from the other side of the equation rather than coming from Essex out. That's >> so it's flipped. The old model was hears. We got here's what you could do, Your limited and now it's like is what we want to do >> This ice >> program the infrastructure and focus on software to find agile. This is seems to be the new way. >> Let me add to that as well, because I think one of the things that we've done over the last year is really focusing on what our technology strategy, how this technology going change. Our business we've done is created a strategy where our ambition actually exceeds our ability to execute. So from a co creation perspective, we actually need really good partners are going to work with us in that context on be strong challenges br critical friend in the process. >> So it's more efficient and more productive. You get best of both worlds and the outcomes are more aligned via agile. Got me more acute on target. Many pretty much that >> getting Carrie actually love to get your perspective on like, what does it mean to have a cloud strategy today? We heard this week. You know, Jenny said, We're, you know, entering chapter to of the clouds. We took care of the twenty percent that was a little bit easier. We're getting eighty harder. Lots of customers I talked to. It's It's changing all the time, and things like hybrid and multi Cloud don't really mean much to them. Got serious in your shop, how you think of things. >> Great question. I think it's changing, and it's different from industry to industry. So I'm banking. The challenge for us has always been regulation has been the regulators pushing back on public cloud and saying, You know, we were nervous about that. Have you manage the security of the controls around that? So a lot of banking is focused on private Cloud? Can we adopt the technology in those banking's those styles of technology delivery in the private cloud way? But we're now starting to see that there is this shift towards public cloud with the economic advantage that public cloud house on the innovation that's going on in public cloud. It's becoming really attractive. So the strategy for us is about how do we make that happen? How do we build that multi cloud model? And then how do we move that sort of hybrid model from private to public and get the advantages of the different styles of cloud computing? >> Guys, Thanks for coming on, Given the inside love, this Dev ops Co creation model and really applications air driving the requirements now with programmable infrastructure. This is changing. The procurement is changing. The culture hiring strategist is really disrupted. This is really the digital transformation. It's all about creating great shop. Thanks for coming on. We appreciate final question while we're here. Thoughts on think this year in San Francisco. Libit Rainy February. That's okay, but all tightly together. What's your thoughts? What's the themes? What's your What's the top story here? >> Getting your pops? >> Whether it makes me feel like >> home is fantastic. Eso No, it's been It's been an amazing week. >> Lots of innovation, Lots of great conversation. So I really enjoyed it. >> Yeah, No, absolutely. I think we've gone around myself, even though we are definitely aware of what's going on in here. But I think there have been lots of partner ecosystem that has been here, and I think that collaboration has been great. Thank you. >> It's been great. Show a lot of inside Kaspar perspective. Thanks for sharing what your journeys on and some specifics Way appreciates. A cube coverage. I'm shoppers to Minuteman. Stay with us for a day, for we're four days a coverage. We're here on day for Stay with us for more after this short break.