>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 sponsored by Intel, AWS and our community partners. >>Hello and welcome to the Cube virtual here with coverage of aws reinvent 2020. I'm your host, Justin Warren. And today I'm joined by J. Snyder, who is the chief chief customer officer at New Relic J. Welcome to the Cube. >>It is fantastic. Me back with the Cube. One of my favorite things to do has been for years. So I appreciate you having me. >>Yes, a bit of a cube veteran. Been on many times. So it's great to have you with us here again. Eso you've got some news about new relic and and Amazon away W s strategic collaboration agreement. I believe so. Maybe tell us a bit more about what that actually is and what it means. >>Yes. So we've been partners with AWS for years, but most recently in the last two weeks, we've just announced a five year strategic partnership that really expands on the relationship that we already had. We had a number of integrations and competencies already in place, but this is a big deal to us. and and we believe a big deal. Teoh A W s Aziz Well, so really takes all the work we've done to what I'll call the next level. It's joint technology development where were initially gonna be embedding new relic one right into the AWS management console for ease of use and really agility for anyone who's developing and implementing Ah cloud strategy, uh, big news as well from an adoption relative to purchase power so you can purchase straight through the AWS marketplace and leverage your existing AWS spend. And then we're gonna really be able to tap into the AWS premier partner ecosystem. So we get more skills, more scale as we look to drive consulting and skills development in any implementation for faster value realization and overall success in the cloud. So that's the high level. Happy to get into a more detailed level if you're interested around what I think it means to companies but just setting the stage, we're really excited about it as a company. In fact, I just left a call with a W S to join this call as we start to build out the execution plan for the next five years look like >>fantastic. So for those who might be new to new relic and aren't particularly across the sort of field of observe ability, could you just give us a quick overview of what new relic does? And and then maybe talk about what the strategic partnership means for for the nature of new relics business? >>Yes, so when I think about observe ability and what it means to us as opposed to the market at large, I would say our vision around observe ability is around one word, and that word is simplification. So, you know, I talked to a lot of customers. That's what I do all the time. And every time I do, I would say that there's three themes that come up over and over. It's the need to deliver a customer experience with improved up time and ever improving importance. It's the need to move more quickly to public cloud to embrace the scale and efficiency public cloud services have to offer. And then it's the need to improve the efficiency and speed of their own engineering teams so they can deliver innovation through software more quickly. And if you think about all those challenges And what observe ability is it's the one common thread that cuts across all those right. It's taking all of the operational data that your system admits it helps you measure improve the customer, experience your ability to move to public cloud and compare that experience before you start to after you get there. The effectiveness of your team before you deploy toe after you get there. And it's all the processes around that right, it helps you be almost able to be there before your there there. I mean, if that makes sense right, you'll be able to troubleshoot before the event actually happens or occurs. So our vision for this is like I talked about earlier is all about simply simplification. And we've broken this down into literally three piece parts, right? Three products. That's all we are. The first is about having a much data as you possibly can. I talked about admitting that transactional telemetry data, so we've created a telemetry data platform which rides on the world's most powerful database, and we believe that if we can take all of that data, all that infrastructure and application data and bring it into that database, including open source data and allow you to query it, analyze it and take action against it. Um, that's incredibly powerful, but that's only part one. Further, we have a really strong point of view that anybody who has the ability to break production should have the ability to fix production. And for us, that's giving them full stack observe ability. So it's the ability to action against all of that data that sits in the data platform. And then finally, we believe that you need to have applied intelligence because there's so many things that are happening in these complex environments. You wanna be able to cut through the noise and reduce it to find those insights and take action in a way that leverages machine learning. And that, for us, is a i ops. So really for us. Observe ability. When I talked about simplification, we've simplified what is a pretty large market with a whole bunch of products, just down to three simple things. A data platform, the ability to operationalize in action against that data and then layer on top in the third layer, that cake machine learning so it could be smarter than you can be so it sees problems before they occur. And that And that's what that's what I would say observe, ability is to us, and it's the ability to do that horizontally and vertically across your entire infrastructure in your entire stack. I hope that makes sense. >>Yeah, there's a lot of dig into there, So let's let's start with some of that operational side of things because I've long been a big believer in the idea of cloud is being a state of mind rather than a particular location on. A lot of people have been embracing Cloud Way Know that for we're about 10 or so years. And the and the size of reinvent is proven out how popular cloud could be. Eso some of those operational aspects that you were talking about there about the ability to react are particularly like that. You you were saying that anyone who could break production should be able to fix production. That's a very different way of working than what many organizations would be used to. So how is new relic helping customers to understand what they need to change about how they operate their business as they adopt some of these methods. >>Well, it's a great question. There's a couple of things we do. So we have an observe ability, maturity framework by which we employ deploy and that, and I don't want to bore the audience here. But needless to say, it's been built over the last year, year and a half by using hundreds of customers as a test case to determine effectively that there is a process that most companies go through to get to benefits realization. And we break those benefit categories into two different areas, one around operational efficiency and agility. The other is around innovation and digital experience. So you were talking about operational efficiency, and in there we have effectively three or four different ways and what I call boxes on how we would double, click and triple click into a set of actions that would lead you to an operational outcome. So we have learned over time and apply to methodology and approach to measure that. So depending on what you're trying to do, whether it's meantime to recover or meantime, to detect, or if you've got hundreds of developers and you're finding that they're ineffective or inefficient and you want to figure out how to deploy those resource is to different parts of the environment so you can get them to better use their time. It all depends on what your business outcome and business objective is. We have a way to measure that current state your effectiveness ply rigor to it and the design a process by using new relic one to fill in those gaps. And it can take on the burden of a lot of those people. E hate to say it because I'm not looking to replace any individual. It's really about freeing up their time to allow them to go do something in a more effective and more effective, efficient manner. So I don't know if that's answering the question perfectly, but >>e don't think there is a perfect answer to its. Every customer is a bit different. >>S So this is exactly why we developed the methodology because every customer is a little different. The rationale, though, is yeah, So the rationale there's a lot of common I was gonna say there's a lot of common themes, So what we've been able to develop over time with this framework is that we've built a catalog of use cases and experiences that we can apply against you. So depending on what your business objectives are and what you're trying to achieve, were able to determine and really auger in there and assess you. What is your maturity level of being able to deliver against these? Are you even using the platform to the level of maturity that would allow you to gain this benefit realization? And that's where we're adding a massive amount of value. And we see that every single day with our customers who are actually quite surprised by the power of the platform. I mean, if you think traditionally back not too far, two or even three years. People thought of new relic as an a P M. Company. And I think with the launch this summer, this past July with new relic one, we've really pivoted to a platform company. So while a lot of companies love new relic for a PM, they're now starting to see the power of the platform and what we can do for them by operationally operationalize ing. Those use cases around agility and effectiveness to drive cost and make people b'more useful and purposeful with their time so they can create better software. >>Yeah, I think that's something that people are realizing a lot more lately than they were previously. I think that there was a lot of TC analysis that was done on a replacement of FTE basis, but I think many organizations have realized that well, actually, that doesn't mean that those people go away. They get re tasked to do new things. So any of these efficiency, you start with efficiency. And it turns out actually being about business agility about doing new things with the same sort with the same people that you have who now don't have to do some of these more manual and fairly boring tasks. >>Yeah, just e Justin. If this if this cube interview thing doesn't work out for you were hiring some value engineers Right now it sounds like you've got the talk track down perfectly, because that's exactly what we're seeing in the market place. So I agree. >>So give us some examples, if you can, of maybe one or two off things that you've seen that customers have have used new relic where they've stripped out some of that make work or the things that they don't really need to be doing. And then they're turning that into new agility and have created something new, something more individual. Have you got an example you could share with us? >>You know, it's it's funny way were just I just finished doing our global customer advisory boards, which is, you know, rough and tough about 100 customers around the world. So we break it into the three theaters, and we just we were just talking with a particular customer. I don't want to give their name, but the session was called way broke the sessions into two different buckets, and I think every customer buys products like New Relic for two reasons. One is to either help them save money or to help them make money. So we actually split the sessions into those two areas and e think you're talking about how do we help them? How do we help them save money? And this particular company that was in the media industry talked at great length about the fact that they are a massive news conglomerate. They have a whole bunch of individual business units. They were decentralized and non standardized as it related to understanding how their software was getting created, how they were defining and, um, determining meantime to recover performance metrics. All these things were happening around them in a highly complex environment, just like we see with a lot of our customers, right? The complexity of the environments today are really driving the need for observe ability. So one of the things we did with them is we came in and we apply the same type of approach that we just discussed. We did a maturity assessment for them, and we find a found a variety of areas where they were very immature and using capabilities that existed within the platform. So we're able to light up a variety of things around. Insights were able to take more data in from a logging perspective. And again, I'm probably getting a little bit into the weeds for this particular session. But needless to say, way looked at the full gamut of metrics, events, logs and traces which was wasn't really being done in observe, ability, strategy, manner, and deploy that across the entire enterprise so created a standard platform for all the data in this particular environment. Across 5th, 14 different business units and as a byproduct, they were able to do a variety of things. One, the up time for a lot of their customer facing media applications improved greatly. We actually started to pivot from actually driving cost to showing how they could quote unquote make money, because the digital experience they were creating for a lot of their customers reduced the time to glass, if you will, for clicking the button and how quickly they could see the next page, the next page or whatever online app they were looking to get dramatically. So as a byproduct of this, they were about the repurpose to the point you made Justin. Dozens of resource is off of what was traditionally maintenance mode and fighting fires in a reactive capability towards building new code and driving new innovation in the marketplace. And they gave a couple of examples of new applications that they were able to bring to market without actually having to hire any net New resource is so again, I don't want to give away the name, the company, it maybe it was a little too high level, but it actually plays perfectly into exactly what what you're describing, Um, >>that is a good example of one of those that one of the it's always nice to have a specific concrete customer doing one of these kinds of things that you you describe in generic terms. Okay. No, this is this is being applied very specifically to one customer. So we're seeing those sorts of things more and more. >>Yeah, and I was gonna give you, you know, I thought about in advance of this session. You know, what is a really good example of what's happening in the world around us today? And I thought of particular company that we just recently worked with, which is check. I don't know if you're familiar with keg, if you've heard of them. But their education technology company based in California and they do digital and physical textbook rentals. They do online tutoring an online customer services. So, Justin, if you're like me or the rest of the world and you have kids who are learning at home right now, think about the amount of pressure and strain that's now being put on this poor company Check to keep their platform operational 24 77 days a week. So that students can learn at pace and keep up right. And it's an unbelievable success story for us and one that I love, because it touches me personally because I have three kids all doing online, learning in a variety of different manners right now. And, you know, we talked about it earlier. The complexity of some of the environments today, this is a company that you would never gas, but they run 500 micro services and highly complex, uh, technical architectural right. So we had to come in and help these folks, and we're able to produce their meantime to recover because they were having a lot of issues with their ability to provide a seamless performance experience. Because you could imagine the volume of folks hitting them these days on. Reduce that meantime to recover by five X. So it's just another example we're able to say, you know, it's a real world example. Were you able to actually reduce the time to recover, to provide a better experience and whether or not you want to say that saving money or making money? What I know for sure is is giving an incredible experience so that folks in the next generation of great minds aren't focused on learning instead of waiting to learn right, So very cool. >>That is very cool. And yes, and I have gone through the whole teaching kids >>about on >>which is, uh, which it was. It was disruptive, not necessarily in a good way, but we all we adapted and learned how to do it in a new way, which is, uh, it was a lot easier towards the end than it was at the beginning. >>I'd say we're still getting there at the Snyder household. Justin, we're still getting >>was practice makes perfect eso for organizations like check that who might be looking at JAG and thinking that that sounds like a bit of a success story. I want to learn more about how new relic might be able to help me. How should they start? >>Well, there's a lot of ways they can start. I mean, one of the most exciting things about our launch in July was that we have a new free tier. So for anybody who's interested in understanding the power of observe ability, you could go right to our website and you can sign up for free and you can start to play with new relic one. I think once you start playing for, we're gonna find the same thing that happens to most of the folks to do that. They're gonna play more and more and more, and they're gonna start Thio really embrace the power. And there's an incredible new relic university that has fantastic training online. So as you start to dabble in that free tier, start to see with the power and the potential is you'll probably sign up for some classes. Next thing you know, you're often running, so that is one of the easiest ways to get exposed to it. So certainly check us out at our website and you can find out all about that free tier. And what observe ability could potentially mean to you or your business. >>And as part of the AWS reinvent experience, are they able to engage with you in some way? >>It could definitely come by our booth, check us out, virtually see what we have to say. We'd love to talk to them, and we'd be happy to talk to you about all the powerful things we're doing with A. W. S. in the marketplace to help meet you wherever you are in your cloud journey, whether it's pre migration during migration, post migration or even optimization. We've got some incredible statistics on how we can help you maximize and leverage your investment in AWS. And we're really excited to be a strategic partner with them. And, you know, it's funny. It's, uh, for me to see how observe ability this platform can really touch every single facet of that cloud migration journey. And, you know, I was thinking originally, as I got exposed to this, it would be really useful for identity Met entity relationship management at the pre migration phase and then possibly at the post migration flays is you try to baseline and measure results. But what I've come to learn through our own process, of moving our own business to the AWS cloud, that there's tremendous value everywhere along that journey. That's incredibly exciting. So not only are we a great partner, but I'm excited that we will be what I call first and best customer of AWS ourselves new relic as we make our own journey to the cloud >>or fantastic and I'm I encourage any customers who might be interested in new relic Thio definitely gone and check you out as part of the show. Thank you. J. J. Snyder from New Relic. You've been watching the Cube virtual and our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020. Make sure that you check out all the rest of the cube coverage of AWS reinvent on your desktop laptop your phone wherever you are. I've been your host, Justin Warren, and I look forward to seeing you again soon.

(upbeat music) [Reporter] - Live from San Diego, California it's theCUBE covering Goodcloud and Cloud- Native cloud. Brought to you by Red Hat the Cloud-Native computing foundation. and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, we're here at Kubecon Cloud-Native con 2019 in San Diego, I'm Stu Miniman. We've got over 12,000 in attendance here and we have a three guest lineup of Kubecon veterans here. To my right is Loris Degioanni who's the CTO and founder of Sysdig. To his right, representing the Tiger is Amit Gupta who's vice president of business development and Product Management at Tigera, and also Knox Anderson who's Director of Product Management. We know from the Octopus, Amit, that also means that he's with Sysdig. So gentlemen, thank you all for joining. [Loris]- Octopus and Tiger >> Octopus and Tiger, bringing it all together on the tube. We have a menagerie as it were. So Loris, let's start as they said, you know all veterans, you've been here, you've almost been to every single one, something about a you know, a child being born made you miss one. [Loris] - The very first one. >> So, why don't you bring us in kind of what's so important about this ecosystem, why it's growing so fast and Sysdig's relationship with the community? >> Yeah, I mean, you can just look around, right? Kubecon is growing year after year, it's becoming bigger and bigger and this just a reflection of the community getting bigger and bigger every year, right? It's really looks like we are, you know, here with this community creating the next step, you know? For computing, for cloud computing, and really, you know, Kubernetes is becoming the operating system powering, you know, the cloud and the old CNC ecosystem around it is really becoming, essentially the ecosystem around it. And the beauty of it is it's completely open this time, right? For the first time in history. >> All right, so since you are the founder, I need to ask, give me the why? So we've been saying you know, we've been starting this program almost 10 years ago and the big challenge of our time is you know building software for distributed systems. Cloud's doing that, Edge is taking that even further. Bring us back to that moment of the birth of Sysdig and how that plays into all the open source and that growth you're talking about. >> Yeah, I mean, Sysdig was born, so first of all, a little bit of background of me. I've been working in open source and networking for my whole career. My previous company was the business behind washer, then it took on a live service, so, a huge open source community and working with enterprises all around the world, essentially to bring visibility over their neighbors. And then I started realizing the stack was changing radically, right? With the event of cloud computing. With the event of containers and Docker. With the event of Kubernetes. It, legacy ways of approaching the problem were just not working. Were not working the technical level because, you need to create something completely new for the new stack but they were also not working at the approach level. Every thing was proprietary. Every thing was in silos, right? So the approach now is much more, like inclusive and community first, and that's why I decided to start Sysdig. >> All right. so Amit, we know things are changing all the time. One thing that does not ever change is security is paramount. I really say, I go back 10 or 15 years you know, they've got a lot of lip service around security. Today, it's a board level discussion. Money, development, especially here in the Cloud-Native space it's really important so, talk about Tigera relationship with Sysdig and very much focused on the Kubernetes ecosystems. >> Absolutely. So I couldn't agree with you more, Stu. I mean, security is super critical and more so now as folks are deploying more and more mission critical applications on the Kubernetes based platform. So, Sysdig is a great partner for us. Tigera provides networking and network security aspects of that Kubernetes deployment. And if you think about it how modern applications are built today, you've taken a big large model and decomposed into hundreds of micro services so there's procedural cause that were happening inside the code and now API calls on the network so you've got a much bigger network with that service a highly distributed environment. So the traditional architectures where you manage the security typically with the firewall or a gateway, it's not sufficient. It's important, it's needed and that's really where, as people design their architecture, they have to think about how do you design security across that entire infrastructure in a distributed fashion or done in the early stages of your projects. >> Knox, help us understand the relationship here, how it fits into Sysdig's product with Tigera. >> Yeah, so we're great partners with Tigera. Tigera lives at the network security level. Sysdig's secure in that the product we built extends the instrumentation that Loris started off with our open source tool, to provide security across the entire container lifecycle. So at build time, making sure your images are properly configured, free of vulnerabilities at run time, looking at all the activity that's happening and then the big challenge in the Kubernetes space is around incident response and audit. So if something happens in that pod, Kubernetes is going to kill it before anyone can investigate and Sysdig helps you with those work flows. >> Maybe it would help, we all throw around those terms, Cloud-Native a lot and it's a term I've heard for a number of years. But the definition like cloud itself is one that you know matures over time and when we get there so, maybe if we focus in a little bit on Cloud-Native security. You know, what is it we're hearing from customers, what does it mean to really build Cloud-Native Security. What makes that different from the security we've been building in our data centers, in clouds for years? >> Well I thought Cloud-Native was just a buzzword. Does it actually mean something? (laughs) >> Well hopefully it's more than just a buzzword and that's what I'm hoping you could explain. >> Yeah, so again, the way I see it is the real change that you are witnessing is how software is being written. And we're touching a little bit on it at this point. Software intended to be architected as big monoliths now is being splayed into smaller components. And this is just a reflection of software development teams in a general way being much more efficient when you can essentially, break the problem into sub-problems and break the responsibilities into sub-responsibilities. This is perhaps something that is extremely beneficial especially in terms of productivity. But also, sort of revolutionizes the way you write software, you run software, you maintain software, CICD, you know continues development, continues integration, pipelines, the reliance on GIT and suppository to store everything. And this also means that, securing, monitoring, troubleshooting infrastructures becomes much different. And one of things we are seeing is legacy two's don't work anymore and the new approaches like Calico Networking or like Falco and runtime security or like Sysdig secure, for the lifecycle and security of containers are something bubbling up as alternatives to the old way of doing things. >> I would add to that I agree with you. I would add that if you're defining a Cloud-Native security the Cloud-Native means it's a distributed architecture. So your security architecture has got to be distributed as well, absolutely got a plan for that. And then to your point, you have to automate the security as part of the various aspects of your lifecycle. Security can not be an afterthought you have to design for that right from the beginning and then one last thing I would add is just like your applications are being deployed in an automated fashion your security has to be done in that fashion so, policy is good, infrastructure is good and the security is just baked in as part of that process. It's critical you design that way to get the best outcomes. >> Yeah, and I'd say the asset landscape has completely changed. Before you needed to surface finding against a host or an IP. Now you need to surface vulnerabilities and findings against clusters, name spaces, deployments, pods, services and that huge explosion of assets is making it much harder for teams to triage events, vulnerabilities and it's really changing the process in how the sock works. >> And I think that the landscape of the essence is changing also is reflected on the fact that the persona landscape is changing. So, the separation between attempts and operation people is becoming thinner and thinner and more and more security becomes a responsibility of the operation team, which is the team in charge of essentially owning the infrastructure and taking care of it, not only for the operational point of view but also from the security. >> Yeah, I think I've heard the point that you've made a many times. Security can't be a bolt on or an afterthought. It's really something fundamental, we talk about DevOps is, it needs to be just baked into the process, >> Yeah. >> It's, as I've heard chanted at some conferences, you know, security is everyone's responsibility, >> Correct. >> make sure you step up. We're talking a lot about open source here. There's a couple of projects you mentioned, Falco and Calico, you're partners with Red hat. I remember going to the Red Hat show years ago and they'd run these studies and be like, people are worried that open source and security couldn't go side by side, but no, no you could actually, you know open source is secure but taking the next step and talking about building security products with open source give us, where that stands today and how customers are you know embracing that? And how can it actually keep up with the ever expanding threat surfaces and attacks that are coming out? >> Yeah. First of all as we know open source is actually more secure and we're getting proof of that you know, pretty much on a daily basis including you know, the fact that tools like Kubernetes are regularly scrutinized by the security ecosystem and the vulnerabilities are found early on and disclosed. In particular, Sysdig is the original creator of Falco which is an open source, CNCF phased anomaly detection system that is based on collecting high granular data from a running Kubernetes environment. For example, through the capture of the system calls and understanding the activity of the containers and being able to alert about the anomalous behavior. For example, somebody being able to break into your container, extricating data or modifying binaries, or you know perpetrating an attack or stuff like that. We decided to go with an approach that is open source first because, first of all, of course, we believe into participating with the community and giving something as an inclusive player to the community. But also we believe that you really achieve better security by being integrated in the stack, right? It's very hard , for example, to have, I don't know, security in AWS that is deeply integrated with the cloud stack upon us, alright? Because this it's propietary. Why would Kubernetes solutions like Falco or even like Calico, we can really work with the rest of the community to have them really tightly coupled and so much more effective than we could do in the past. >> You know, I mean I would make one additional point to your question. It's not only that users are adopting open source security. It's actually very critical that security solutions are available as an open source, because, I mean, look around us here this is a community of open source people, they're building and distributing infrastructure platform from that is all open source so we're doing this service if we don't offer a good set of security tools to them, not an open source. So that's really our fundamental model that's why Calico provides two key problems networking and network security for our users, you deploy your clusters, your infrastructures, and you have all the bells and whistles you need to be able to run a highly secure, highly performing cluster in your environment and I believe that's very critical for this community. >> Yeah, and I'd say that and now with open source, prevention has moved into the platform. So, with network policy and things like Calico or in our 3.0 launch we incorporated the ability to automate tests and apply pod security policies. And those types of prevention mechanisms weren't available on your platforms before. >> Okay, I often find if you've got any customer examples, talk about, you know, how they're running this production kind of the key, when they use your solutions you know, the benefits that they're having? >> Yeah, I'll take a few examples. I mean, today it is probably fair to say Calico from the partial phone home data we get a 100,000 plus customers across the globe, some of the, I can't take the actual names of the customers but, so the largest banks are using Calico for their enterprise networking scenarios and essentially, the policies, the segmentation inside the clusters should be able to manage the security for those workloads inside their environments. So that's how I would say. >> Yeah, and Sysdig, we, have an open core base with Falco, and then we offer a commercial product called Sysdig secure, in particular, last week we release version 3.0 of our commercial product which is another interesting dynamic because if we can offer the open core essentially to the community but then offer additional features with our commercial product. And Falco is installed in many, many thousands extension of platforms. and Sysdig secure you know secures, and offers visibility to the biggest enterprises in the world. We have deployments that are at a huge scale with the biggest banks, insurance companies, media companies, and we tend to fall to cover the full life cycle of applications because as the application and as the software moves in the CICD pipeline so security needs to essentially accompany the application through the different stages. >> All right, well thank you all three of you for providing the update. Really appreciate you joining us in the program and have a great rest of the week >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> We'll be back with more coverage here from Kubecon, Cloud-Nativecon. I'm Stu Miniman and thanks for watching theCUBE. (upbeat music)

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread hat. >> Well, good afternoon. Where you might be watching us here on the Cube. We are live in Boston. Is we wrap up our coverage headed toward the homestretch? You might say of Red had Summit twenty nineteen. Want was to Mittleman. I'm John Walls. And thank you for joining us here. We're now joined by Ah, Louise, right. Bower, who was the vice president and chief technical strategists and head of innovation lab at Dinah Trees. And always good to see you today. Thanks for being with us. Hello. Thanks for having me s O software intelligence that that's your your primary focus. You've got headquarters here in the Boston area back in Austria. Tell a little bit about it. You would, Dina Trace. And I guess first off, what this news this week has met to you in terms of the release is and then maybe what you're doing in general. You know what Dina Trace is all about? >> Yes. Oh, that phrase has been around for, like quite a time. Started out as an a P M. Company. like fourteen years ago have been reinventing ourselves over and over again on DH. So we move from the traditional monitoring approach. So the innovation we had in the very beginning when we launched the first product was really would be practical, pure passer. The ability trace and went that way a lot about facing racing, like becoming super cool for micro services. So it would be like the first teacher we could be burying, doing, tracing before it was cool, like forty, fifty years ago. And then I was were involving the product more, more Skilling into bigger and bigger environments. So what's bigger and bigger mean? I remember in the beginning when we were working on environments who we're talking about, like one hundred host has a big environment like five hundred told that that's a big environment today, we say, for even one hundred thousand toast. Okay, it's a big environment, but they can't get even bigger then. The massive change was really for us five years ago, where way implemented our entire product offering, built the new Dina trays, Mr Focus, that we realize that okay, it's data and between people date and having them analyzed data is nice, but it's only getting you so far. So the more complex the replication get, more data you get to analyze. And it's just more exponentially scaling how many people you would need to deal with this. And that's why five years ago, we started to incorporate a I into our new court platform, then for automatic problem analysis. That's also where we're not just BPM. That's just what we call like the Dogg Tools data on glass tools to show a lot of data. Do some analysis on top of it. But it don't help you, too, really resolve a problem. So we used build in the eye, and that automatic would cause analysis again. Next teacher doing Aye, aye ops, affordable school like five years ago. Andi. The latest evolution. We also so again, and not a change in the way people are using monitoring tools. Um, we've invested a lot into building out in AP eyes don't see monitoring tools like be the Martin still here and the application over there, but having them monitoring who being highly integrated into the fabric fire eyes. So we have, As of today, eighty percent of our customers are using the product also via reprise, but tying them into operational automation. What we heard even today in the keynote here about a ABS and Howie iop starts to control and manage that form. More is becoming the intelligence or the back plane behind a modern native stack. >> So we have Chris right on. Who was in the keynote this morning? Came on our program this morning, too, when we talked about just the rippling effects of distributed architectures. I look at my applications there, you know, going to micro service architectures. You look at where's customers data? Well, lots of stuff all over the clouds and sass, and that has a ripple. Effect it to your space. You know, I hear observe, ability monitoring, you know, hack even bring up, like, you know, the civilised world. It becomes a whole separate meeting. So Donna Trace has been going through a transformation. You know, give >> us a >> point check ins to you know, where your customers are, how you're helping them move through this modernization and, you know, move to distributed architectures where that fits in >> so that their customers we focus on mostly are like Fortune five hundred customers who we work with. And obviously they have everything that exists on the planet. When we talk about self for like even from the mainframe to cloud native to serve less, as you mentioned here. And they were in this transition process right now, like modernizing their applications, which, as a necessity, we all want to move fast. There we want therefore flexible architects is we want to build more enough innovative products but at the same time to realize that this is also a message business risk behind following this approach. Think about you in the role of the CEO and say where we're going to modernize our architecture. We're going to rebuild everything we platform and so forth. You can if you succeed. Everybody would say you had. Yes, you did what you had to do. I mean, sorry if you failed, you failed. It's s so for them, it's a It's a big risk to move down that route and retired to take that risk out of the process as much as possible. Really Starting, obviously was monitoring their traditional sex, as they have to today, but really supporting that along that entire journey to a cloud native architecture er, starting with what we referred to as our support for monoliths to micro service architecture's. So Theodore is basically you don't want to rip apart the replication and figure out how it's going to work in my purse services world. But we have to technology that's called smart scape smart. Skip Moelis bills a real time, all of your entire data center and old applications running into it. And it was virtually that sect. You're marvelous, you came. How would they look like in a microt services architecture without catching any codes and then making it work? So once you've done this once, you've decided to move there the next step? Obviously, yes, you could have rebuilt that application. Usually we see applications with micro services architectures being significantly Mohr complex or more distributed by the sign that a traditional that you might have Web server application, Teo Database Server. Now you might be talking about maybe two hundred micro services or more so twenty times ranges. Writer on this under under lower bound here, which means that your traditional operational approach up okay, it's either the database of observer. The application server doesn't work anymore. on top of this. You did all of this to deploy fast. Like for like, bi weekly releases, even maybe daily off, like a smaller granularity. So you were reading a lot of entropy to that system and you have to analyze way more data. Did he ever had to do before? And this is where we kind of getting to the level where theoretically humans could do it. But it would just take us too long where the Holy I ops capability come in where we let let the machines that a monitoring tto take care of it at that level. So we helping them to operation US thieves processes and then really supporting them along the whole journey, where every customer we talked like this vision. But we're also here today in the keynote of an autonomous cloud and with carbonated, we already made a great step in this direction, looking at the interest, actually, like today say, I need five replicas off this container. I don't know, given that it's does it open shift and specifically here, it's going to happen. But if we move to the application layer is a lot, that has to be done and it has to make it easier for people to do. And that's where we tied into the entire customers. Ecosystem toe, automate like their cloud environment and have actually built a practice around which we call autonomous cloud management that we have been working with with customers on to enable them to achieve this over time. But it's going to be a lot maturity there. >> Yes, I mean, so what it talked about that you know, a CIA autonomous cloud management. What exactly you know, is that and how are you bringing that to your customer >> base? Autonomous Cloud Management resulted out off two different areas. The first one was when we were implement re implementing our platform. What I mentioned before, one step for us was to move to the SAS platform, and we looked at all the operation practices that were around back then, you know, we don't want to tell the doc I really don't want to do it. Like having people twenty four seven look at dashboards, then goingto a wicky, then reading a description of how to fix the problem. If you're the engineer, that why why do we do this this way? Must make any sense. So we developed our own practice, which we referred to as no wops. I know it doesn't mean that you're not doing operations. That would be pretty crazy, but not doing this traditional Naga type of operation, sitting there staring at a screen twenty four seven and then mentally executing any operation. So we had our own practice that we've built around it and, quite frankly, which has spilled it because we needed it for ourselves, and then we kept talking to customers and partisan, he says. Really cool what you did there like, Oh, how did you do this? What's like yourself? Respect behind this and what does the practices? What do your process? What's the culture change? So we were engaging with some customers, and then we were seeing that some of our customers back then, even we're doing bits and pieces off. This isthe well because there's a lot of practice and a lot of knowledge around. How did the autonomous count management and at the same time that we talked about the other customers who not yet on a charity who definitely want to get there? But I'm not quite sure how to do it, and I don't want to figure it out themselves. So we thought, Okay, let's take all of these best practices that we have and build more or less a methodology around it. How to make this actually works like how to do this. We really broke it down into, like, individual sprints to distance sprint one that distance sprint to to really have the results within three months, six months, twelve months. Whatever the cases that you want to run on. And then we realised talking to customers. This by itself isn't still enough. So that's why we started to open up this to an entire ecosystem. So WeII brought ecosystem partners along, like working closely with read a lot of our companies, but also system integrators who can help us. We speak of projects because we as a company, our software companies were not a services are consulting company, and we do support customer that some of those engagement. But if you think of like a really Fortune five hundred company that's a multi approaches, it will keep hundreds of people busy. So to recap like built in methodology, we built ecosystem to deliver on that promise at scale. And now the last step was we were doing this. We also built like a reference architecture for it, and I was just in an eternal ideas. So how do we, like structure this building reference architecture and then realized Okay, It's kind of like super helpful for customers. So that is why we don't decided to open source this reference architecture this fabric as well, too, like the tires after community, so they can also use it. So technically, stability is three pieces. It's the methodology, it's the ecosystem. And it's like the reference architecture that you can work with to help you, Chief. Go. >> All right, um, tell us how your a I fit into this. I've heard some analyst firms are saying, you know, some of the next generation of your space could be a I ops. Do you consider yourselves moving in that direction, or do you have some counter view on that? >> I think today a lot of things ar e I upset my now b a i ops, and it's a very undefined goal. This mentioned earlier. We decided to have aye aye based algorithms as powerful platform five years ago and nobody back then was talking about the layoffs. Funny story. Some of our competitors even told us you can't use the eye for monitoring just like totally stupid that there are other companies that they were doing it. But again, so the whole industry is learning here. I think it's really about data analysis. If you look at, if you scare the bigger and bigger environment, you really have to look at the process off what human operations people are doing on. There's obviously some hard decisions that you have to take their have. You have to work with teams to resolve our problems. But the biggest portion is really data analysis interpretation, right and a lot of this can be put into, and a I component that doesn't What's the Dyna trees, eh? I does it more. This is like your saree in codes, so to speak, which is able to find what's broken in the education, what was related to an issue in the application and being able to automatically find the root cause. Very importantly, we're kind of like opinionated and how in a I for operational practices should be working because one thing you don't want it serious you want? Don't want it happening. Iop system tell you well, you should. We start this service because some neural and that were told to do so. That's a building, a lot of confidence. That's why our approach is really tio follow. Like what we call a deterministic a pia a sari. And hey, I did it able to explain back to the user White came to a certain conclusion. So why should their we sort this herb is west of the rollback, this deployment or why that's the I b. Believe that if I fixed this problem, then like the bigger problem will be solved. So that's our approach, Teo T. I actually started like, roughly four years ago, five years ago, even a bit more than that on you. And I think that have a lot of experience, really rolling it out its scale and seeing it will help people because the next the ultimate next question, without always Scott Wass. If you wanna know what the problem is, why don't you fix it? And that's exactly the conversation you want to have, maybe just briefly at here, because it usually comes up okay, f a I and isat replacing people's jobs? I don't think so. We also heard it in the keynote today from Chris. It's augmenting our capabilities. There's hard decisions that you have to take, but just going through tons and tons of data. It's not going to your isn't very often when we talked at operations team or almost every time. First of all, you can't hire enough people anyways to get all the old done that's on your plate. Secondly, um, just by the amount of data and the time that I had to react. It's just long with a human understanding scenario way. Do this demo on self healing, often application. Where were deployed, something broken into production and have it being rolled back and we can do fifty one seconds. No human can do it that fast. That's just what pure, softer automation can do for you. So I think that then you can focus on other areas and more important, new project with us people in on the off space. What's what the three projects that you want to work and you never have time to work out and usually come up with the list. Yet this is what we give you back that time to work on exactly the things that move your business forwards. You >> said fifty one seconds. You've never seen Stew in action. You still have a lot of confidence. >> Well, we we love the machine, enhance human intelligence. You're definitely We could all use those machines to help us all get away from the drudgery and be able to do more. >> Always safe travels. Thanks for being with us. Headed back to Austria. Say, hide all your folks back in Austria, right There always is on his way home on his way to the airport. Thank you for being with us here on the Cube. Thanks. Appreciate the time our coverage continues here. Red hat some twenty nineteen. You're watching the cube?

>> live from London, England. It's the queue covering a ws summat. London twenty nineteen Brought to you by Amazon Web services >> Welcome back to London Summit Everybody, this is David Lamont and you watching the Cube, the leader in live tech coverage. We loved to go out to the events. We extract the signal from the noise. This is our one day coverage of a WS summit London, and it's packed house twelve thousand people here. The twenty six thousand people registered, which is just outstanding. Chris Bunches. Here's the general manager of a MIA for cloud reach, and he's joined by Mark Randy, whose CEO of signal FX. Gentlemen, welcome to the Cube. >> Thank you. >> Okay, let's start with signal effects. What's going on at the show? What's the buzz like? >> Very busy. Dozens deep. A lot of demonstrations feature in our massively scalable metrics platform and distributed tracing platform. So we've had a very good show. Good showing in London. >> Good. We're going to get into some of that. Chris, tell us about cloud reach. What you guys do? >> Sure. So Cloud Reach was founded in two thousand and nine. So quite a long time ago in the history of cloud confusing, at least >> was right after the Cloud City with >> quite a pure vision around helping complex organizations to adults public cloud computing technologies to doom or faster and better. That's all we've ever done. It's all we ever intend to do way work these days with enterprise organizations across the cloud lifecycle starting with adoption, helping them to understand White Cloud. How am I going to do this? How am I going to move my data center's into the cloud? How am I gonna build new services moving on through the life cycle? We help them with that. At that migration, we helped them to shut down their data centers on rebuild them in a WS. We helped build New Cloud native Services. Using the latest offerings from from Amazon and other cloud providers, we worked with him on Data analytics, helping them to generate insights from their data. Data flows in an ever faster pace from across the across the world into their organization. On all of that is wraps with an MSP manage service twenty four hours a day, seven days a week. >> So, Mark, I gotta ask you so back back in the day, the narrative was that the public law was going to kill every man, his service provider out there. It's been nothing but a tailwind for your business. Business is booming. What's what actually happened to give you that? Left >> on the signal effects side I look, the big trends are the move to the cloud number one. The second piece is just a change in the architecture's you know, the move to communities, the introduction for elastic burst e type use cases of things like Lambda and and that even more importantly, just the process of developing software movement from, you know, waterfall, Dad, agile and the Whole Dev ops movement in introduction of micro services. So that's it's It's just a lot of a lot of these ways been going on for quite some time, but they're really starting to hit the shore to shore right now, and I think it's been a great great opportunity for companies like Cloud Reach Tio to take advantage of were very excited by the partnership. >> Well, it has. It has ripple effects on the rest of the business, doesn't it? I was saying earlier in a segment that it used to be the business of No, we can't do that because and now you look around this audience, it's all doers and builders, and, you know, it's it's actually great marketing because it works, doesn't it? So clouded has been a fundamental component of >> Yeah, I mean, our whole businesses around making t v enabler helping businesses to innovate. Once upon a time, the message was all around. Cost saving is the reason to move to the cloud, and there's still an element of that. Nobody wants to pay Mohr, but actually, increasingly, what we're seeing is organizations moving to Amazon because they want the agility, they want to move faster. And they don't want to be the the culture of no and have a process that takes six months to deliver a new service to the business. They want to be out of deliver things in hours or minutes in the some cases, and they want to do so quickly on they want to innovate, a pace that they've never been able to before, partly from a competitive threat perspective and partly from a market opportunity. There's so much, but we can deliver to customers if we put our minds to it and use the primitives, the Amazon providers, as building blocks to enable new >> services. You know where you live in the Bay Area. I spent a lot of time out there, were based in Palo Alto and use a vortex that unique that sometimes I think way think that that's where all the action is. You come to London and you see all these startups. Every business is becoming a software company. And you know, we don't in Silicon Valley in America have a monopoly on innovation anymore, >> not even close. So there's a lot of great innovation all over Europe. Uh, here in the U K. All the way to Northern Europe, Doc, uh, Paris Way we see it across the board. So >> So what are people doing? They building new cloud native APS in the public loud. Are they doing a lifted shift and trying to get more agility out of those traditional APs? What's the landscape? Looks like? >> It's ah, combination of the two. The startup organizations, of course, is starting with no legacy. There's nothing to my great and they are building cloud native and they're doing so far, >> we have no I d >> no. Yeah, technically, before nine years, four hundred on eBay test migrations. But that's the only hardware for the museum. Exactly the larger organizations. They have huge volumes of legacy infrastructure, some of it dating back to the seventies. In the case of financial institutions or public sector, then all of that is an opportunity to modernize, and not just for the agility and innovation but in some cases just to reduce risk. There is huge business risk in these old, untouched, dusty, cobweb ridden servers that nobody understands anymore. And there's a really opportunity to move that to the public cloud, reduce and remove that risk. And while you're there, take advantage of the new technologies and innovative deliver a better service to you or in consumer whoever that may be >> so prik uber, Netease and micro services, even though containers have been around for a while. But the modern doctors ascendancy. You know why? To K was the year of the decade of modernization. It was like four or five years leading up to y two K at some I T shop said, Okay, we're going to modernize, but but none of these micro services existed, so it really was. It was about dates, maybe some application portfolio rationalization. What's different today that I could take those apse that were written in the seventies with a lot of custom code? How am I able to modernize, though >> I think it's the maturity of the services. You look at something a platform like Amazon. There's one hundred twenty hundred thirty, or Mohr. It grows almost every week. Building blocks primitives, the Amazon are providing, and its a rating on it. At an incredible rate on DH, there's almost a service for everything. And when you think they've run out of services to introduce, a new services is created. And, you know, we talked about micro services. They introduced Lambda back in two thousand fourteen, which was there. Serve Elice environment driving event based micro services architectures, and it's ahead of the game. It's ahead of the curve. It's causing people to think very differently about what's even possible from a night perspective. And there's no way. In most organizations, you, Khun, build that kind of infrastructure on that kind of platform that is build and costs you on a Microsoft microsecond basis. I mean, it's it's >> incredible. It was amazing. I remember the first virtual machine. It would be anywhere that I saw spun up like, Wow, this is going to change the world. And then the cloud comes along like a while. This is going to change the world. And now survivalists. I don't even have to deploy servers anymore. It's side by Amazon >> way. See this? Even even in some of the more traditional organizations we we worked with in the UK and in Germany and France and elsewhere, you don't even need to be looking at service. Just the ability toe programmatically spin up a virtual machine without a human touching anything. That's incredible to some organizations, right? They're used to it, taking six months to provision of infrastructure to deploy an application. Now they can click a button, and by the time they've made a cup of coffee, it's it's up and running, and it's It changes the way people >> think So much Talk about Cloud Region signal effects. What's the partnership like between you two and what's your partnership like with eight of us? >> Um, on the cloud reach side, we went through an extensive evaluation by cloud reach, and over several months they evaluated all the alternatives on the market and ended up selecting us to be their standard for their many service provider business. It's We're super excited about that. On the go for it, we're rolling that out with them there. Current customer based on DH. We were hoping that, uh, using signal effects, that cloud reach that will help them be the point of spear on all cloud native. You know, in their marketplaces, they go pursue other customers, so it's pretty excited about. >> So it's not a pressure release deal, not a Barney deal. Like we like to say that >> they're up there, They're a paying customer. And, you know, I made a big bet on signal effects going forward. >> So why the choice to go with manage service provider? You have You could have built it yourself and take us through that. >> Yeah. I mean, the nature of the business we're in is very much predicated on the fact that you don't build it yourself. You know, you look at the market and if somebody is already doing it well and provides excellent service as a commodity, you use it. We've been in the MSP space since round about twenty ten very soon after the the company was was founded, and we know it pretty well. We have a large customer base. We are one of the top tier MSP for along the major cloud vendors in the world, lots of large organizations. However, as we look to refresh our tooling with a view on Maura, an application centric approach, which is what all of our customers want and expect a CZ we look to micro services and the very latest platforms and technologies he's being released by the hyper scale cloud vendors. We recognize the need for a newer, more modern tooling on DH. After a thorough evaluation, a CZ mark says signal effects came out on top. Why is that? Partly it's the cloud native element. You know, some of that sounds a little bit like a marketing buzzword, but in reality, what it means is the company was founded relatively recently and as a result, was geared towards modern technology. So out of the box they support doctor, they support containers, they understand, and they're orchestrated around micro services. It deals with scale on volume, and we we want to low test things in a big way. We only serve large scale and surprise customers. And they are going to throw tens of thousands of containers on micro services at their tooling, and it has to be able to track tto handle that massive volume of transactions. >> It's a complicated picture, actually. You know, sometimes micro services aren't so micro. Yes, and you've got to secure all these containers. Got spinning up of'Em is easy. >> Well, >> you see multiples. So how do you guys deal with that? I mean, you're obviously experts at it, but But give us the sales pitch >> on. Yeah. So I think you kind of you covered it earlier with, You know, all these great new technology with introduction of micro services. I mean, developers in our writing it the running it, they're pushing code directly into production environment. You know, you went from releasing code once or twice a year, a few years back now toe several releases and you know your people lifting shift. They're starting with a few micro services. Someone we're getting up into the hundreds, even thousands in our most advanced deployments. It it it ends up being worth a situation Where Alright, all this innovation is great, but it also introduces a ton of complexity. And based on the way we've architect of our system, really time streaming like within seconds, you're going to need to see it, to react to it, whatever the use cases. And that's what differentiates signal FX is this massively scalable streaming architect we built for from a Metrix platform standpoint and then from an Eastern West standpoint for your from your custom code are Micro Services, a PM solution on top of that to go help measure what those transactions air how they're performing across the entire complex environment. So we feel like we're just purpose built for today to help in the lift and shift crowd and or for the more advanced customers, they're intothe point dozens, if not hundreds of micro services. >> Tell me more about this metrics platform you mentioned a couple times. What is that all about? >> Well, we start with essentially, you know, the three big pillars are logs, metrics and eight p. M. And you know, our company was found it. We have deep roots. Back in the two thousand seven ranges, our founders were you know, they built the monitoring stack at Facebook and so had several years, you know, kind of earning and learning that secret. You know, in the early days, they didn't call it Dev Ops. Back then they called it move fast, break things, didn't call >> it. They didn't call it >> a micro services. I mean, and then twenty, twenty, thirteen, early, two thousand fourteen. That's when the founders got together and started. The company is also the same time frame. Doctor came out. Were just purpose built for this for this environment. >> Final thoughts. Yeah. Thie event where you guys were headed. Maybe little road map, if you could. >> The event has been incredible. Every year it gets a little bit bigger. It gets a little bit more exciting. There's, ah, bigger range of organizations, different industries. And it changes a little bit over time. This year, financial services has been particularly of interest for us, but this event is a lot of large large banks, investment houses, those kind of companies here on DH. That's been really exciting for us. I think trend I'm most excited about is really around machine learning. Amazon talked about it in the keynote this morning and democratization of very, very complex technology bring it to the masses is a as a manage service that can be provisioned in minutes and seconds. And to me that something that's that's really exciting and using the signal FX platform, we're now in a position to provide manage service wrappers around the machine learning based solutions that we build for our >> customers. Yeah, the financial services. Interesting. Back in two thousand nine when you started, a lot of the banks in New York thought they could scale and compete essentially with KWS >> world. The world changes very quickly. Absolutely >> final thoughts for you. >> Yeah, I think they think we're moving past that point. You know, even the later adopters. I think we're moving past that point and look at that name there getting pressure from the startup community, whether it's intact or or any industry's gonna have that type of pressure. You talked about that y two k moment. I think in any vertical out there, it's that you know those cloud native type companies the companies are becoming software companies were going toe transform yourself or you're going to have some pressure from the start up going forward. We're >> guys. I'm thrilled that you could make time to come in the queue. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us. All right. Keep it right there. But it is. Dave Alonso will be back with our next guests right after this short break. You watching the Cube from London? Eight of US Summit right back.

>> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. HOLLOWAY ALTO, California It is a cube conversation. >> Hello and welcome to Cube conversations. I'm James Kabila's lead analyst at Wicked Bond. Today we've got an excellent guest. Who's a Cube alumnus? Par excellence. It's your own Haviv who is the founder and CEO of a guajillo. Hello. You're wrong. Welcome in. I think you're you're coming in from Tel Aviv. If I'm not mistaken, >> right? Really? Close the deal of any thanks from my seeing you again. >> Yeah. Nice to see you again. So I'm here in our Palo Alto studios. And so I'm always excited when I can hear your own and meet with your room because he always has something interesting in new to share. But what they're doing in the areas of cloud and serve earless and really time streaming analytics And now, data science. I wasn't aware of how deeply they're involved in the whole data Science pipelines, so ah, your own. This is great to have you. So my first question really is. Can you sketch out? What are the emerging marketplace requirements that USA gua Si are seeing in the convergence of all these spaces? Especially riel time streaming analytics edge computing server lis and data science and A I can you give us a sort of ah broad perspective and outlook on the convergence and really the new opportunities or possibilities that the convergence of those technologies enable for enterprises that are making deep investments. >> Yeah, so I think we were serving dissipated. What's happening now? We just call them different names will probably get into into this discussion in a minute. I think what you see is the traditional analytics and even data scientist Science was starting at sort of a research labs, people exploring cancer, expressing, you know, impact. Whether on, you know, people's moved its era. And now people are trying to make real or a Y from a guy in their assigned, so they have to plug it within business applications. Okay, so it's not just a veil. A scientist Inning the silo, you know, with a bunch of large that he got from his friends, the data engineer in the scan them and Derrickson Namesake runs to the boss and says, You know what? You know, we could have made some money in a year ago. We've done something so that doesn't make a lot of impact on the business, where the impact on the business is happening is when you actually integrate a I in jackpot in recommendation engines in doing predictive analytics on analyzing failures and saving saving failures on, you know, saving people's life. Those kind of use cases. Doctors are the ones that record a tighter integration between the application and the data and algorithms that come from the day I. And that's where we started to think about our platform. Way worked on a real time data, which is where you know, when you're going into more production environment of not fatal accident. Very good, very fast integration with data. And we have this sort of fast computation layer, which was a one micro services, and now everyone talks about micro services. We sort of started with this area, and that is allowing people to build those intelligent application that are integrated into the business applications. And the biggest challenges they see today for organizations is moving from this process of books on research, on data in a historical data and translating that into a visit supplication or into impact on business application. This is where people can spend the year. You know, I've seen the tweet saying with build a machine learning model in, like, a few weeks. And now we've waited eleven months for the product ization. So that artifact, >> Yes, that's what we're seeing it wicked bomb. Which is that A. I is the heart of modern applications in business and the new generation of application developers, in many ways, our data scientists, or have you know, lovers the skills and tools for data science. Now, looking at a glass zeros portfolio, you evolve so rapidly and to address a broader range of use cases I've seen. And you've explained it over the years that in position to go, as well as being a continuous data platform and intelligent edge platform, a surveillance platform. And now I see that you're a bit of a data science workbench or pipeline tooling. Clever. Could you connect these dots here on explain what is a guajillo fully >> role, Earl? Nice mark things for this in technology that we've built, OK, just over the years, you know, people, four years when we started, So we have to call it something else. Well, that I thought that analytic sort of the corporate state of science. And when we said continued analytics, we meant essentially feeding data and running, some of them speaking some results. This is the service opposed to the trend of truth which was dating the lady Throw data in and then you run the batch that analytic and they're like, Do you have some insight? So continue statistics was served a term that we've came up with a B, not the basket. You know, describe that you're essentially thinking, needing from different forces crunching it, Prue algorithms and generating triggers and actions are responsible user requests. Okay on that will serve a pretty unique and serve the fireman here in this industry even before they called it streaming or in a real time, data science or whatever. Now, if you look at our architecture are architecture, as I explained before, is comprised of three components. The first event is a real time, full time model database. You know, you know about it really exceptional in his performance and its other capabilities. The second thing is a pursue miss engine that allows us to essentially inject applications. Various guys, initially we started with application. I sense you do analytics, you know, grouping joining, you know, correlating. And then we start just adding more functions and other things like inference, saying humans recognitions and analysis. It's Arab is we have dysfunction engine. It allows us a lot of flexibility and find the really fast for the engine on a really fast data there endure it, remarkable results and then this return calling this turn this micro assume it's finger serve Ellis who certainly even where have the game of this or service gang. And the third element of our platform is a sense she having a fully manage, passed a platform where a ll those micro services our data and it threw a self service into face surfing over there is a mini cloud. You know, we've recently the last two years we've shifted to working with coronaries versus using our own A proprietary micro spurs does or frustration originally. So we went into all those three major technologies. Now, those pit into different application when they're interesting application. If you think about edge in the engine in serving many clouds, you need variety of data, sources and databases. With you, no problem arose streaming files. Terra. We'LL support all of them when our integrated the platform and then you need to go micro services that developed in the cloud and then just sort of shift into the enforcement point in the edge. And you need for an orchestration there because you want to do suffer upgrades, you need to protect security. So having all the integrated separated an opportunity for us to work with providers of agin, you may have noticed our joint announcement with Google around solution for hedge around retailers and an i O. T. We've made some announcement with Microsoft in the fast. We're going to do some very interesting announcement very soon. We've made some joint that nonsense with Samsung and in video, all around those errands, we continue. It's not that we're limited to EJ just what happens because we have extremely high density data platform, very power of fish and very well integrated. It has a great feat in the India, but it's also the same platform that we sell in. The cloud is a service or we sell two on from customers s so they can run. The same things is in the clouds, which happens to be the fastest, most real time platform on the Advantage service. An essential feature cannot just ignore. >> So you're wrong. Europe. Yeah, Iguazu is a complete cloud, native development and run time platform. Now serve earless in many ways. Seems to be the core of your capability in your platform. New Cleo, which is your technology you've open sourced. It's bill for Prem bays to private clouds. But also it has is extensible to be usable in broader hybrid cloud scenarios. Now, give us a sense for how nuclear and civilised functions become valuable or useful for data science off or for executing services or functions of data of the data science pipeline kick you connect the dots of nuclear and data science and a I from the development standpoint >> church. So So I think you know, the two pillars that we have technology that the most important ones are the data. You know, we have things like twelve batons on our data engine is very high performance and nuclear functions, and also they're very well integrated because usually services stateless. So you know, you you end up. If you want to practice that they have some challenges with service with No, no, you can't. You stay for use cases. You can mount files. You have real time connections to data, so that makes it a lot more interesting than just along the functions. The other thing, with no clothes that is extremely high performance has about two hundred times faster than land. So that means that you can actually go and build things like the stream processing and joins in real time all over practice, their base activities. You can just go and do collectors. We call them those like things. Go fetch information from whether services from routers for the X cybersecurity analysis for all sorts of sensors. So those functions are becoming like, you know, those nanobots technology of off the movies is that you just send them over to go and do things for you, whether it's the daily collection and crunching, whether it's the influencing engines, those things that, for example, get a picture of very put the model, decide what's in the picture, and that this is where we're really comes into play. They nothing important you see now an emergence off a service patterns in data science. So there are many companies that do like mother influencing as a service city what they do, they launch an end point of your eleven point and serve runs the model inside you send the Vector America values and get back in the Americans and their conversion. It's not really different and service it just wait more limited because I don't just want to send a vector off numbers because usually I understand really like a geo location of my cellphone, which are user I D. And I need dysfunction to cross correlated with other information about myself with the location. Then came commendation of which a product they need to buy. So and then those functions also have all sorts of dependency exam on different packages. Different software environment, horribles, build structures, all those. This is really where service technologies are much more suitable now. It's interesting that if you'LL go to Amazon, they have a product called Sage Maker. I'm sure yes, which is dinner, then a science block. Okay, now sage mint for although you would say that's a deal use case for after Onda functions actually don't use Amazon London functions in sage maker, and you ask yourself, Why aren't they using Lambda Stage Maker just telling you, you know you could use Lambda is a blue logic around sage maker. And that's because because London doesn't feed the use case. Okay, because lambda doesn't it is not capable of storing large content and she learning miles could be hundreds of megabytes or Landa is extremely slow. So you cannot do hi concurrency influencing with will land the function so essentially had to create another surveillance and college with a different name. Although if they just would have approved Landa, maybe it was one or a Swiss are So we're looking, We've took it, were taken the other approach We don't have the resources that I have so we created a monster virus Engine one servant attention does batch Frost is saying scream processing, consort, lots of data, even rocketeer services to all the different computation pattern with a single engine. And that's when you started taking all this trend because that's about yeah, we need two version our code. We need to, you know, record all our back into dependencies. And although yes, service doesn't so if we just had to go and tied more into the existing frameworks and you've looked at our frantically product called Tokyo Jupiter, which is essentially a scientist, right, some code in his data's passport book and then in clicks. One command called nuclear Deploy, it automatically compiles, is their science artifact in notebooks, that server and converted into a real hand function that can listen in on your next city. People can listen on streams and keep the scheduled on various timing. It could do magic. So many other things. So, and the interesting point is that if you think about their scientists there, not the farmers, because they should be a scientist on this's means that they actually have a bigger barrier to write in code. So if you serve in this framework that also automates the law daughter scaling the security provisioning of data, the versions of everything in fact fantasies, they just need to focus on writing other them's. It's actually a bigger back for the book. Now, if you just take service into them, Epstein's and they will tell you, Yeah, you know, we know how to explain, Doctor. We know all those things, so they're very their eyes is smaller than the value in the eyes of their scientists. So that's why we're actually seeing this appeal that those those people that essentially focus in life trying math and algorithms and all sorts of those sophisticated things they don't want to deal with. Coding and maintenance are refreshed. And by also doing so by oppression analyzing their cool for service, you can come back to market. You can address calle ability to avoid rewriting of code. All those big challenges the organizations are facing. >> You're gonna have to ask you, that's great. You have the tools to build, uh, help customers build serve Ellis functions for and so forth inside of Jupiter notebooks. And you mentioned Sage Maker, which is in a WS solution, which is up in coming in terms of supporting a full data science tool chain for pipeline development. You know, among teams you have a high profile partnerships with Microsoft and Google and Silver. Do you incorporate or integrator support either of these cloud providers own data science workbench offerings or third party offerings from? There's dozens of others in this space. What are you doing in terms of partnerships in that area? >> Yeah, obviously we don't want to lock us out from any of those, and, you know, if someone already has his work bench that I don't know my customers say they were locking me into your world back in our work when things are really cool because like our Jupiter is connected for real time connections to the database. And yes, serve other cool features that sentir getting like a huge speed boost we have. But that's on A with an within vigna of round Heads and Integration, which reviews are creating a pool of abuse from each of one of the data scientist running on African essentially launch clubs on this full of civilians whose off owning the abuse, which are extremely expensive, is you? No. But what we've done is because of her. The technology beside the actual debate engine is open source. We can accept it essentially just going any sold packages. And we demonstrate that to Google in danger. The others we can essentially got just go and load a bunch of packages into their work match and make it very proposed to what we provide in our manage platform. You know, not with the same performance levels. Well, functionality wise, the same function. >> So how can you name some reference customers that air using a guajillo inside a high performance data science work flows is ah, are you Are there you just testing the waters in that market for your technology? Your technology's already fairly mature. >> That says, I told you before, although you know, sort of changed messaging along the lines. We always did the same thing. So when we were continuous analytics and we've spoken like a year or two ago both some news cases that we Iran like, you know, tell cooperators and running really time, you know, health, a predictive health, monitoring their networks and or killing birds and those kind of things they all use algorithms. You control those those positions. We worked with Brian nailing customers so we can feed a lot of there there in real time maps and do from detection. And another applications are on all those things that we've noticed that all of the use cases that we're working with involved in a science in some cases, by the way, because of sort of politics that with once we've said, we have analytics for continuous analytics, we were serving send into sent into the analytic schools with the organization, which more focused on survey data warehouse because I know the case is still serve. They were saying, and I do. And after the people that build up can serve those data science applications and serve real time. Aye, aye. OK, Ianto. Business applications or more, the development and business people. This is also why we sort of change are our name, because we wanted to make it very clear that we're aren't the carnage is about building a new applications. It's not about the warehousing or faster queries. On a day of Eros is about generating value to the business, if you ask it a specific amplification. And we just announced two weeks in the investment off Samsung in Iguazu, former that essentially has two pillars beyond getting a few million dollars, It says. One thing is that they're adopted. No cure. Is there a service for the internal clouds on the second one is, we're working with them on a bunch of us, Della sighs. Well, use case is one of them was even quoted in enough would make would be There are no I can not say, but says she knows our real business application is really a history of those that involves, you know, in in intercepting data from your sister's customers, doing real time on analytics and responding really quickly. One thing that we've announced it because of youse off nuclear sub picture. We're done with inferior we actually what were pulled their performance. >> You're onto you see if you see a fair number of customers embedding machine learning inside of Realtor time Streaming stream computing back ones. This is the week of Flink forward here in San San Francisco. I I was at the event earlier this week and I I saw the least. They're presenting a fair amount of uptake of ml in sight of stream computing. Do you see that as being a coming meet Mainstream best practice. >> Streaming is still the analytics bucket. OK, because what we're looking for is a weakness which are more interactive, you know, think about like, uh, like a chatterbox or like doing a predictive analytic. It's all about streaming. Streaming is still, you know, it's faster flow data, but it's still, sir has delay the social. It's not responses, you know. It's not the aspect of legacy. Is that pickle in streaming? Okay, the aspect of throughput is is higher on streaming, but not necessarily the response that I think about sparks streaming. You know, it's good at crossing a lot of data. It's definitely not good at three to one on would put spark as a way to respond to user request on the Internet S O. We're doing screaming, and we see that growth. But think where we see the real growth is panic to reel of inches. The ones with the customer logs in and sends a request or working with telcos on scenarios where conditions of LA car, if the on the tracks and they settled all sorts of information are a real time invent train. Then the customer closer says, I need a second box and they could say No, this guy needs to go away to that customer because how many times you've gotten technician coming to your house and said I don't have that more exactly. You know, they have to send a different guy. So they were. How do you impact the business on three pillars of business? Okay, the three pillars are one is essentially improving your china Reducing the risk is essentially reducing your calls. Ask him. The other one is essentially audio, rap or customer from a more successful. So this is around front and application and whether it's box or are doing, you know our thing or those kind of us kisses. And also under you grow your market, which is a together on a recommendation in at this time. So all those fit you if you want, have hey, I incorporated in your business applications. In few years you're probably gonna be dead. I don't see any bits of sustained competition without incorporating so ability to integrate really real data with some customer data and essentially go and react >> changes. Something slightly you mentioned in video as a partner recently, Of course, he announced that few weeks ago. At their event on, they have recently acquired Melon ox, and I believe you used to be with Melon Axe, so I'd like to get your commentary on that acquisition or merger. >> Right? Yes, yes, I was VP Data Center man Ox. Like my last job, I feel good friends off off the Guider, including the CEO and the rest of the team with medicines. And last week I was in Israel's with talk to the media. Kansas. Well, I think it's a great merger if you think about men in Ox Head as sort of the best that breaking and storage technology answer Silicon Side and the video has the best view technologies, man. It's also acquired some compute cheap technologies, and they also very, very nice. Photonics technologies and men are today's being by all the club providers. Remiss Troll was essentially only those technical engagement would like the seizures and you know the rest of the gas. So now VP running with the computation engine in and minerals coming, we serve the rest of the pieces were our storage and make them a very strong player. And I think it's our threatens intel because think about it until they haven't really managed to high speed networking recently. They haven't really managed to come with Jiffy use at your combat and big technology, and so I think that makes a video, sort of Ah, pretty. You know, vendor and suspect. >> And another question is not related to that. But you're in Tel Aviv, Israel. And of course, Israel is famous for the start ups in the areas of machine learning. And so, especially with a focus on cyber security of the Israel, is like near the top of the world in terms of just the amount of brainpower focused on cyber security there. What are the hot ML machine? Learning related developments or innovations you see, coming out of Israel recently related to cybersecurity and distributed cloud environments, anything in terms of just basic are indeed technology that we should all be aware of that will be finding its way into mainstream Cloud and Cooper Netease and civilised environments. Going forward, your thoughts. >> Yes, I think there are different areas, you know, The guys in Israel also look at what happens in sort of the U. S. And their place in all the different things. I think with what's unique about us is a small country is always trying to think outside of the box because we know we cannot compete in a very large market. It would not have innovation. So that's what triggers this ten of innovation part because of all this tippy expects in the country. And also there's a lot of cyber, you know, it's time. I think I've seen one cool startup. There's also backed by our VC selling. Serve, uh, think about like face un recognition, critical technology off sent you a picture and make it such that you machine learning will not be able to recognize Recognize that, you know, sort of out of the cyber attack for image recognition. So that's something pretty unique that I've heard. But there are other starts working on all the aspects on their ops and information in our animal and also cyber automated cyber security and hope. Curious aspect. >> Right, Right. Thank you very much. Your own. This has been an excellent conversation, and we've really enjoyed hearing your comments. And Iguazu. It was a great company. Quite quite an innovator is always a pleasure to have you on the Cube. With that, I'm going to sign off. This is James Kabila's with wicked bond with your own haviv on dh er we bid You all have a good day. >> Thank you.

>> So welcome to the special. Keep conversation here in Palo Alto, California John, for a host of the Cube. We're here with two co founders. Adam Casella was the CTO and Glenn Sullivan's cofounder. Snap Route Hot Start up, guys. Welcome to this Cube conversation. Thank you. Thank you. So left on the founders in because you get the down and dirty, but you guys are launching. Interesting product is for Cloud Cloud Native Super sighting. But first, take a man to explain what is snap brought. What do you guys do? What's the main core goal of the company? >> Right? So your your audience and you familiar with white Box now working disaggregated networking, where you're buying your hardware and your software from different companies. There's a lot of different Network OS is out there, but there's nobody doing what we're doing for the now ergo es, which is a cloud native approach to that where it's a fully containerized, fully micro serviced network OS running on these white box, which is >> test your background. How did you guys start this company? Where'd you come from? What was the epiphany? Was the motivation? >> Sure. So our heritage is from operations running at some of the largest Edison is in the world. We came from Apple. Ah, and running the networks there. And the issues and problems that we saw doing that is what led us to found stabbed. >> And what are some of the things that apples you guys notice on a huge scale? Yep. I mean, Apple. You know, a huge market share most probable company. I think it's now the largest cat. Microsoft was there for a while, but and apples, the gold standard, get from privacy to scale. What were some of the things that you saw, that what was the authority? >> So, I mean, there was a couple of things going on there, one we were driving driving too, doing white box for more control. So we wanted to have a better sense of what we could do with the network operating system on those devices. And we found very quickly that the operating systems that were out there, whether they be from a traditional manufacturer Ah, we and the planes or from someone from a disaggregated marketplace were basically using the same architecture. And this was this old, monolithic single binary item that goes in the pleasant device, and you know that worked in, you know, back in the day when you know applications didn't move, they were static there, One particular location. But as we were seeing, and one things that we were really pushing on is being able to dynamically have move workloads from one location to another quickly to meet demand. The network was not able to keep up with that, and we believe that it really came down to the architecture that was there. Not being flexible enough and not allowing our control to be able to put in the principles would actually allow us to allow that that application time to service be faster. >> You know, one of these on personally fascinated, you know, seeing startups out there and living in this cloud error and watching those like Facebook and Apple, literally build the new kind of scale in real time. It's like you have, you know, changing the airplane engine out of thirty five thousand feet. As the expression goes, you have to be modern. I mean, there's money on the line that's so much scale, and when you see an inefficiency, you've got to move on it Yeah, this is like, what, you guys did it. Apple. What were some of the things that yet you observed was that the box is Was it the software? A CZ? You wanted to be more agile. What was the the problem that you saw? >> So it it's really in fragility, right? It's it's basically, this Network OS is as they were, our design in a way so that you don't touch him right. If you look at the code releases and how often they, you know, fixed security vulnerabilities or you know they have patches or even knew regular versions right there. The cycle isn't weekly. It's not daily like you see in some C I C. Environments, right? You might have a six month or a twelve month or an eighteen month cycle for doing this sort of a new release for for, you know, whatever issue new features or or fixes, right. And the problem that we would see is we would be we would be trying to test a version in the lab, right? We would be qualifying code and say there's a security vulnerability. You know, something like heart bleed, right? That comes out the guys on the server side, they push a new patch using, you know, answerable Scheffer puppet and, you know, two days later, everything's good, even two hours later in some environments. But we had to wait for the new release to come from one of the traditional vendors we had to put in our lab, and we get this sort of kitchen sink of every other fix. There'd be enhancements to be GP that we didn't ask for. There'd be enhancements to, you know, Spanish or that we didn't ask for. Even if they patched it, you'd still get this sort of all in one update. And by the time you're done qualifying, there might be another security vulnerability. So you got to start over. So you'd be in this constant cycle of months of qualified, you know, qualifying the image because you you'd be testing everything that's in the image. And not just that. The update. And that's really the key difference between what we're >> going to work involves shapes you eventually chasing your tail. Exactly. One thing comes in and opens up a lot of consequences, but that's what systems over >> all about this consequences, right? This is right systems are challenging. And what it does is it is it creates this culture and no from the network folks, right? Because the network folks are basically, like, not in my backyard. You want to add this new thing? No. Because they're judged by up time. They're judged by how long the network is up and how long the applications available. They're not judged by how quickly they can put a new feature out or how how quickly they can roll an update. Their They're literally judged in most organizations by up time. How many nines are they giving? So if I'm judged by up time and somebody wants to add something new, my first answer as a network person has anybody really is gonna be No, no, no, don't touch anything. It's it's fragile >> because they're jerks or anything. They just know the risk associate with what could come from the consequence exactly touching something. So, yes, it's hard right now to yes, Okay, so I gotta ask you guys a question. How come the networking industry hasn't solved this problem? >> Well, there's a There's a few different reasons I feel it is, and that's because we've had very tightly coupled, very tightly controlled systems that have been deployed his appliances without allowing operators to go ahead and add their innovations onto those items. So if you look at the way thie compute world is kind of moved along in the past fifteen, you know, fifty, thirty years, you mean, really a revolution started to athletics, right? From their particular perspective, you have Lennox. You can open up the system, you get people constructing open source items everyone knows just end. A story that makes the most is the most successful, monolithic, you know, piece of code base that's ever existed, right? It took fifteen years later for anyone in the network industry to even run the linens on a switch. I mean, that's that's pretty, you know, huge in my mind, right? That's that's that's called like Yeah, and so and even when they've got it on the particular switch to running older versions of Colonel, they're running different things. They don't you know, back Porter versions of code that don't work with the most modern applications that are out there, and they really have it in their tight, little walled garden that you can't adjust things with and >> that was their operational mode at the time. I mean, networks were still stable. They weren't that complicated. And hence the lag and many felt had been left >> behind. Theocracy. Inefficiencies that may have function when you have dozens of devices doesn't function when you have hundreds and thousands of devices. And so when you look at, like even from the way they they presented their operating system from a config standpoint, it is a flat config file that's loaded from filing booted. That's the same paradigm people of file for forty years. Why do we still think that hotel today compute has left that behind? They're going the programmatic AP diversions with you know whether it be you know, Cooper netease war with Doctor, where they have everything built into one ephemeral container that gets deployed. Why it hasn't been working in the same thing. And I really believe it's for that close ecosystem that hasn't allowed. People look to put their innovations onto their Yeah, it's >> almost as a demarcation point in time. You think about history and him and how we got here, where it's like, Okay, we got perimeters. We got firewalls and switches top Iraq stuff. So you got scale. It's bolted down, it's secure. And incomes Cloud comes I ot So there's almost a point, You know, it almost picked. The year was a two thousand eight doesn't through two thousand twelve. You started to see that philosophy. So the question I've asked for you is that what was the tipping point? So because, you know, the fire being lit under the butts of networking guys finally hit and someone saying, Well, they don't evolve to be like the mainframe guys. I was like, not really, because mainframes is just different from client server. Networks aren't going away there around. What's the tip was the tipping point. What made the network industry stand up? >> So yeah, what it is, is it's it's being able to buy infrastructure with a credit card, Right? Because as soon as I've got a problem as an application owner was a developer, I say, Hey, I've got this thing that I've got a release, right and I go to the network came and said, I've got this new thing and I get any sort of pushback. Now you look a cloud, right? Eight of us is our Google, like all the different options out there. Fine. I don't need these guys anymore. When the grab credit card slide it, boom. Now I can buy my infrastructure. That's that's really the shift. That's what's pushing folks away from using those kind of classic network infrastructure is because they could do something else, right? >> So cloud clearly driving it, think >> I would. I would say so. Yeah, absolutely. All >> right, So the path of solve these problems, you guys have an interesting solution. What's the path? What's the solution that you guys are bringing to market? Sure. >> So the way I had kind of view, the way the landscape is set up is really if you look at you know where this innovation has happened in the compute side in the last little bit Weatherby Cloud, whether it be, you know, some of the club native items would come out there. They've all come for the operators. I haven't been a vendor to sitting there and going to play. They've kind of mirth, morph himself into vendors. But they didn't originate as vendors, right to go and supply these systems. And so what I see from the solution to that is sort of enabling operators and people who are running networks to be ableto controller their own destiny to manage how their networks are deployed right. And this boils down from our perspective to a micro services containerized network operating system that is not be spoke, not proprietary, but is using the ecosystem has been built from this P people on the computes side specifically the cloud native universe in a cloud native world and applying those perimeters and shims onto network >> learned, learned from the cloud, Right? Like don't try to make something better. Look at the reasons why folks are going to the cloud Look at the AP structures looking. He's of launching instances. Look, att the infrastructure you build with a few clicks and say, What can I learn from that environment to Moto? Mimic that in my private environment? >> Yeah, and this is why we kinda looked at cu burnett. He's is a really big piece of our infrastructure and using the company as a p I as the main interface in tor device. So that you, Khun, you know multi different reasons, is expandable. You could do, you know, a bunch of different custom options to expand that a P i But it allows people who are either in. Deva loves to look at that and go. I understand how this works. I know how these shims function and started getting in the realization that networking is not that much different than what the computer world is. >> So you guys embraced integration, his deployment, CCD pipeline, all that good stuff. And Cooper netease even saw Apple at sea Ncf conference that they have a booth there. No one would talk, but certainly communities is getting part that cloud native. What's the important solution that you guys are building to solve to solve from the problems that you're going after with now the cloud needed because Dev ops ethos is trickling down, helping down the stack. Certainly we know what cloud is, so it's So what is specifically the problem that you solved >> So a couple things that air So obviously you have your, you know, application time of service. The faster you can double your application, the faster you can get up and running the factory. People using out it is, you know, you get more money, you save money, right? Um, you have security. No one wants to be in that that, you know, that box of having a security voluntarily happened on there, but they >> were non compliance, >> Yes, or non compliance with particular thing with a P i. P. I C P C high socks and all in all things that come along with that. And finally it's the operational efficiency of day two operations. We've gotten pretty good as industry as deploying Day one operations and walking away. We don't do anything. No, no, no. We can't change the network anymore. It's really that next day when you have to to things like apply those applications or have a new application, it gets moved. Containers are ephemeral. The average container last two to three days. Viens last twenty three days. Monolithic caps last for years. That air that are not in those things that are just compute bare metal piece. So when we start moving to a location or a journey of having a two to three day ephemeral app that can be removed or moved, replace different location. The network needs to be able to react to that, and it needs to be able to take that and ensure that that not only up time but availability is there for that, >> and it's not management tools that are going to fix it, right? This is this is sort of our core argument is that you look at all of the different solutions that have come out for the last seven, eight, nine years in the networking in the open networking space. This trying to solve this from management perspective with, you know, different esti n profiling different, different solutions for solving this management. Day two operations issues, right. And our core argument is that the management layers on top aren't what needs to change. That can change. If you adopt communities, you get that kind of along with it. But you need to change the way the network OS itself is built so that it's not so brittle so that it's not so fragile breaking into micro services, breaking the containers so that you can put it into a CCD pipeline. You try to take a monolithic network OS and put it in your C. C I. C D Pipeline. You're going to be pushing a rock up. Help. >> It's funny. We've had Scott McNealy on the Cube founder Sun Microsystems and we said, You know, he has from one time. Hey, you know what about the cloud he goes? I should I had network is the computer was his philosophies. I should should we call the cloud? So if the network is the computer kind of concept thie operating environment management's not aki sub system of the network. It's a component, but the operating system has subsystems. So I like this idea of a network, operates system talk about what you guys do with your work operating system and what is day to mean. What is actually that means >> sure. So when you take your services and you divide them up into containers and, you know, call the micro services, basically taking a single service, putting container and having a bunch of dependency that might be associate with that, what you end up doing is having your ability to, uh, you know, replace or update that particular container independently of the other components on the system. If an issue happens, or if you want to get a new feature functionally for that, the other thing you could do is you, Khun Slim, down what you're running. So you don't have to run these two hundred plus features, which is the average amount you see and just a top Iraq device. And you only use maybe ten to twenty percent of those. Why do I have all these extra features that I have to qualify that may introduce a bug into my particular environment. I want to run the very specific items that I know I need to give my application, uh, up and running and the ability to go ahead and pull in the cloud native environment and tools to do that allows you to get the efficiencies that they've learned from not only the cloud way, but also even doing some on Prem communities. You know, private cloud items to get those efficiencies on their forwarding, your network running your applications. >> It's learning from the hyper sailors to write like this. This is Well, I mean, we had this when we were running networks, right? You put every protocol on the board on a white board, and then you'd start crossing them off and you start arguing in a room full of people saying, Why do I need this feature? Why do I need this other feature and it's like you have to justify it. And we know this is happening up the road at, you know, places like Facebook because, like Google, right, we know that they're that they're saying, Hey, the fewer features I have running the simple or my environment is the easier it is to troubleshoot, the less that can go wrong and the less security vulnerabilities. I have these air all. It's all goodness to run less right. So if you give people the ability to actually do that, they have a substantially better network. Yeah, >> what's unique about what you guys doing? How would you describe the difference between what you're doing and what people mean she might be looking at? >> So if you look at what you know other folks, that you know that we're going to see that look at collaborative Riku Burnett ys everything they do is a bolt on until his old architecture that's been around for twenty five years. So it's like a marriage between these two items. It's how you go ahead and have this plug in that interacts with that. Forget all that you're going to get up in the same spot with another thing you're adding on to another thing you're adding on to another thing. Hearing onto it seized these abstraction layers on top of distraction layers were taking the approach where it is native to the non core operating system. You know, Cooper, Daddy's Docker, Micro Services and containers. They're native to the system. We're not anything on. We're not bolting anything on there. That's how it is. Architect designed to be run. >> And that's key, right? The thing that we were really walking away from from our operational experience, we know that the decisions being made at that, you know, CEO Seo level and even in the you know, director of infrastructure level are going to be We're looking to build an on Prem solution, Mr Customers saying I need it to be orchestrated by an open, nonproprietary platform that gets rid of all of the platforms that are currently out there by the traditional network. Oh, yeah, Bs right. If you start out saying my orchestration platform has to be shared from compute storage network and it has to be open and has to be not proprietary, that pretty much leaves communities is you're really only choice and combinations important. It's hugely important to us, right? We knew that when we broke everything into, you know, containerized Micro Services. You need something to orchestrate those. So what we've done is we said, Hey, we're going to use this Cuban eighties tool. We're going to embed it on the device itself, and we're going to run it natively so that it can be the control point for all the different containers that are running on the system. >> That's awesome, guys. Great Chef will go forward to chatting more final question. What words of wisdom you have for other folks out there, Because there are a lot of worlds colliding as we look at the convergence of a cloud architect, which, by the way, is not a well defined position >> where you >> have infrastructure, folks who have gone through machinations of roles. Network engineer this that the other thing programmable networks air out there. You seeing this thing really time data? I oh, ti's. Also, you're all coming together yet. So what, you gotta re evaluating? What's your advice to folks out there? Who who are either evaluating running POC is rethinking their architecture. >> So the first thing that you know I think this is pretty common from folks that to hear is that evolve, or you're not going to be relevant anymore. You need to actually embrace these other items you can't ignore. Cloud. You can't pretend like I have a network. These applications will never move because eventually they will and you're going to be out of a job. And so we need you to start looking at some of the items that are out there from the cloud native universe to couldn't see Cooper nineties universe and realizing that networking is not a special Silent is completely different from, you know, dev ops every items they need to be working together. And we need to get these two groups and to communicate to each other, to actually move the ball forward for getting applications out there faster for customers. >> Don't let the thing I would say to infrastructure, folks, especially those that are going to cloud strategy is don't let the Ivy and the Moss grow on your own prime solution yesterday. Right? Go into your multi cloud strategy with I'm gonna have some stuff in eight of us and have some stuff deserve. I'm not stuff some stuff and Google. I might have some stuff overseas because the data sovereignty. But I'm also gonna have things that are on prep. Look at your on from environment and make it better to reflect what you could do in the cloud. Because once you're developers get using the AP structures in the cloud. They're going to want something very similar on Prem. And if they don't have it than your own, Prem is going to rot. And and you're going to have some part of your business that has to be on Prem and you're going to give it a level of service that isn't as good as the cloud, and nobody wants to be in that situation. >> Glenn, Adam Thanks so much for sharing. Congratulations on the launch of Snap Out every year and thanks for coming and sharing conversation. >> Thanks. Great. >> I'm John for here in Palo Alto. The Cube Studios for Cube Conversation with Snapper Out. Launching. I'm shot for you. Thanks for watching

>> Live from Seattle, Washington it's theCUBE covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon North America 2018 brought to you by Red Hat the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and it's Ecosystem Partners. >> Well, everyone welcome back to theCube's live coverage here in Seattle for KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018. I'm John Furrier with Stu Miniman. Three days of coverage around the Cloud Native growth, around the Ecosystem around open source, and the role of micro servers in the cloud. Our next guest is Roland Barcia who's the IBM Distinguished Engineer for IBM's Hybrid Cloud. Welcome to theCube. >> Thank you, glad to be here. >> Thanks for joining us. Being a Distinguished Engineer of IBM is a pretty big honor so congratulations. >> Thank you. >> it means you got technical chops so we can get down and dirty if we want to. >> Sure. >> I want to get your take on this because a lot of companies in IT are transforming and then that's been called digital transformation, it's happening and cloud has developed scale. And the wish list if you had the magic wand that could make things do better is actually happening. Supernetting's actually creating some goodness that if you had the magic wand, if I asked that question three years ago, if you had a magic wand what would an environment look like? Seamless operations around the cloud, so it's kind of happening. How are you guys positioned for this? Talk about the IBM cloud, what you're doing here, and how you see this cloud native market exploding. It's almost 8,000 people here up from 4,000 last year. >> Yeah, that's a great question I think. I work a lot with our enterprise clients. I'm part of what's called the IBM Cloud Garage, so I'm very customer facing. And often times, we're seeing that there is different paces of a journey. And so for example, I worked with a client that started building a cloud native application. They built about 60 micro services. And at the end of that, they were deploying it as one job which means they defeated the whole purpose of micro service architecture. And so what we really need to think about is an end to end journey. I think the developers are probably the more modern role in an enterprise, but we're starting to see modernization of an operations team for example, and adopting culture, and cutting down the walls of IT organizational groups into mixed squads, adopting something like a Spotify model. And I think a lot of the challenges in adopting kubernetes is really in cultural aspects and in enterprise. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. And because network guys are different than the app guys, and now they have policy knobs on kubernetes they can play with. Network guys love policy. >> Yeah, and they're fighting over ownership, right? >> Roland indeed. We look at that modernization, the application modernization really is that long home intent. And what we hear here is you need to be able to meet customers where they are. Sure, there's some stuff they're building shiny and new and have the developers, but enterprises have a lot of application and therefore there's a grand spectrum. What do you hear from customers? What's the easy part and where's the parts they're getting stuck? >> Yeah, so I think the easy part is writing the application. I think where they're getting stuck is really scaling it to the enterprise, doing the operations, doing the DevOps. I always tell people that a modernization journey might be better started by taking a certain class of applications like middleware where we have a WebSphere heritage from IBM, and saying why don't we take a look at containerizing that. We've built tools like Transformation Advisor that'll scan your WebSphere applications and tell you what do you need to change in that middleware application to make it behave well in a containerized platform. Then from there, you build your DevOps engine, your DevOps pipeline and you really start to get your operations teams going in delivering containers, delivering applications as containers. And then getting your policies and your standards in place. Then you can start opening up around innovation and start really driving towards building cloud native new applications in addition to that. >> One of those areas we've been talking about in the industry for decades is automation. The conversation's a little bit different these days. Maybe you can bring us up to speed about what's different than say it was earlier days. >> Yeah, I think IT organizations have always done a bit of automation. I think they write scripts, they automate builds. I think the mantra that I use is automate everything, right? Organizations need to really start to automate in a new way. How I deliver containers, but delivering the app is not enough. I need to automate all levels of testing in a modern way. Test driven development is big. At the IBM Cloud Garage, we have something we call the IBM Cloud Garage Method which really takes a set of practices like test driven development, pair programming, things out of lean startup, extreme programming, and really start to help enterprises adopt those practices. So I say why can't we automate end to end performance testing in the pipeline, and functional testing, and writing them early and in the beginning of projects? That way, as I'm deploying containers which are very dynamic, along with configuration, and along with policy you're testing it continuously. And I think that level of automation is what we need to get to. >> Talk about security as well 'cause security's one of those things where it's got to be baked in upfront. You got to think about it holistically. It's also now being pulled out of IT, it's more of a board function because the risk management is one hack you could get crushed. And so you got to have security. And the container there's a security boundary issue, so it's important. >> Last week we met with an insurance company. We did a workshop. And they walked us through all the compliant steps that they need to go through today. How they do it with traditional middleware and virtual machines and hardware and it was a very, what I'm going to say governance driven process. And so a lot of checks and balances, stop don't move forward, which is really the industry for developing and innovating is going the opposite way: self service and enabling. And there's a lot of risk with that. And so what we're really trying to do with technology is like Multicloud Manager, technology we have around multicluster, management is how do I do things like I want to check which clusters are Hipaa compliant and which ones are out. How do i force that policy? >> That's smart. >> Now that everything is software driven, software developed, there's an opportunity to really automate those checks. >> So your point automate everything. >> Yeah, I want to automate everything. >> Governance is a service. (laughing) >> Yeah, that's right. And actually, that can help get away from error prone human checks where they had all these tons of documents of all different policies they have to go through can now be automated in a seamless way. >> So compliance and governance could be a stumbling block or it can be just part of the software. That's what you're getting at here. >> That's right, that's what I'm getting at. I think the transition is look at it as an opportunity now that everything is software driven, use software disciplines that developers are used to in those security roles and those CSO roles, etc. >> So I want to ask you a question. So one of the things we're seeing obviously with the cloud is it's great for certain things, and then on premises it has latency issues. We saw Amazon essentially endorse this by saying RDS on VMware on premises. They announced Outpost had reinvent oh, latency. Things aren't moving into the cloud as fast. So you're going to see this hybrid environment. So hybrids, we get that, it's been around, check. No real discussion other than it's happening. The real trend is multicloud, right? >> That' right. >> And so multicloud is just a modern version of the word multi vendor about the client server days. So systems were a multi vendor man choice. This is a fundamental thing. It's not so much about multicloud as it is about choice. How do you guys see that? You are in an environment where you have a lot of customers who don't have one cloud, so this is a big upcoming trend in 2019. >> Most of our clients have at least five different clouds that they deal with, whether it be an IaaS, a PaaS, a SaaS base solution. What we're seeing as a trend is we talked about on premise and private and enterprise is I think is 80% of workloads are still in the data center. And so they want to build that private cloud environment as a transitionary point to public, but what we're seeing across the multicloud space is I'm going to say a new integration space. So if you really think 15 years ago, SOA and enterprise service bosses in a very centralized fashion, I think there's a new opportunity for integration across clouds and on-prem in a more decentralized way. So I think integration is kind of the next trend that we're seeing in this multicloud space because the new applications that we're seeing with cognitive data AI are mixing data sources from multiple clouds and on-prem and needing to control that in a hybrid control plane is key. >> It's funny, the industry always talks about these buzzwords, multicloud. If we're talkin' about multicloud, then it's a problem. The idea of infrastructure as code it's not even use the word multicloud. I mean, if you think about it, if you're programming the infrastructure and enabling the stuff under the covers, why even talk about cloud? It should be automated, so that's the future state, but in reality, that's kind of what enterprisers are tryin' to think about. >> They are, and I think it's a tension between innovation and moving fast and control, right? The enterprisers want to move fast, but they want to make sure that they don't break security protocol, that they don't break resiliency that they're maybe have used to with their existing customers and applications. I do think the challenge is how operations teams and management teams start to act like developers to get to that point. And I think that's part of the journey. >> Open source obviously a big part of this show, and that's open source, people contribute upstream It's great stuff. IBM is a big contributor, and it'll be even more when Red Hat gets into the mix. So upstream's great, but as you got 8,000 people here, you're startin' to see people talkin' about business issues, and other things. One of the downstream impacts of this conference being so open source centric is the IT equation and then just the classic developer. So you have multiple personas now kind of interacting. You got the developer, you got the IT architect, cloud architect pro whatever, and then you got the open source community members. Melting pot: good, challenges, thoughts? >> So I think it's so developers love that, right? I think from an enterprise perspective, there are issues. We're seeing a lot of our clients with our private cloud platform ask us to build out what's called air gapped environment which is how do I build up an open source style ecosystem within my enterprise. So things like getting an artifactory registry or a Docker registry or whatever type of registry where I get certified, open source packages in my enterprise that I've gone and done security vulnerability scans with, or that I've made sure that I look at every layer from the Linux kernel all the way up to whatever software is included. So what we're seeing is how do I open the aperture a bit, but do it in a more responsible fashion I think is the key. >> Yeah, and that's for stability, right? So Stu, one of things I've been talkin' about and want to get your thoughts on this role is that you got the cloud as a scalable system then one of the things that's being discussed in Silicon Valley now for the first time, we've been sitting on theCube for years, is the cloud's a system. It's just some architecture, it's network distributing, computing, art paradigm, all that computer science has been around for awhile, right? >> Yes, yes. >> So if you've been a systems person whether hardware or whatever, operating systems, you get cloud. But also you got the horizontal specialism of applications that are using machine learning and data and applications which is unique on top. So you have the collision of those two worlds. This is kind of a modern version of two worlds that we used to call systems and apps, but they're happening in a real dynamic way. What's your thoughts on this? Because you got the benefits of horizontally scalable cloud and you now have the ability to power that so we're seeing things like AI, which has been around for a long, long time, have a renaissance because now you got a lot of compute. >> That's right, and I think data is the real big challenge we're seeing with a lot of our clients. They have a lot of it in their enterprise, they don't want to unlock it all right away. We recently did what's called IBM Cloud Private for Data, in which we brought in a set of technologies around our AI, our Watson core to really start leveraging some of those tools in a private manner. And then what we're seeing is a lot of applications that are moving to the cloud have a data drag. It might start as something as simple as caching data and no SQL databases, but very quickly they want to learn a lot more about that data. So we're seeing that mix happening all the time. >> We've had it, we've had someone say in theCube ML's the new SQL. >> Yeah. >> Because you're starting to see SQL abstraction layers are a beautiful thing if they're connected. So I want to get your thoughts on this because everyone's kind of in discovery mode right now. Learning, there's a lot of education. I mean, we're talkin' about real, big time players. Architects are becoming cloud architects. Sysadmins are becoming operators for large infrastructure scale. You see network guys goin' wait a minute, if I don't get on the new network programmable model I'm going to be irrelevant. So a lot of persona changes in the enterprise. How are you guys handling that with customers? I know you guys have the expert program. Comment on that dynamic. >> I think what we're doing is we use the IBM Cloud Garage to bring in practices like the Spotify method where we start pushing things like >> What's the Spotify method? >> Spotify method is a way of doing kind of development where rather than having your disciplines of architects, development, operations, we're now splitting teams, let's say functionally, where I have mixed disciplines in a squad and maybe saying hey, the person building the account team has an SRE, an ops guy, a dev guy all within their same squad. And then maybe have guilds across disciplines, right? And so what we do at the Garage is we bring 'em in to one of the Garages. We have four team locations worldwide. Maybe do your first project. Then we build enablement and education around that, bring it back to the enterprise and start making that viral. And that's what we're doing in the IBM Cloud Garage. >> So not a monolithic thing, breakin' it down, integrating multiple disciplines, kind of like a playlist. >> Yeah, that's right. And I think the best way to do it is to practice it, right, in action. Let's pick a project rather than talking about it. >> If I had to ask you in 2019, what is the IT investment going to look like with kubernetes impact? How does kubernetes change the IT priorities and investments for an enterprise? >> Yeah, so I think you'll see kubernetes become a vehicle for enterprises to deliver content. So one, the whole area around helm and other package managers as a way to bundle software. I think as people build more clusters, multicluster management is going to be the big trend of how do I deal now with clusters that I have in public cloud and private cloud, all different clouds? And I think that integration layer that I talked about where what does modern integration look like across kubernetes based applications. >> Someone asked me last week at Reinvent hey, can't we just automate kubernetes? And then I was like, well it's kind of automated now. What's your thoughts on that? >> So I think when someone asks a question what does it mean to automate that I think the kubernetes stack really sits on top of IaaS infrastructure. And so for example, our IBM Cloud Private you can run it on zLinux or Power. And we have a lot of IBM folks that run multi architecture clusters. And therefore, they still need a level of automating how I create clusters over IaaS and there's technologies like Terraform and others that help with that, but then there's also automating standing up the DevOps stack, automating deployment of the applications over that stack. And I think they mean automating how I use kubernetes in an environment. >> So 2019, the year of programmability and automation creating goodness around kubernetes. >> Yeah, absolutely, >> Roland, thanks for comin' >> Thank you, it was great. >> on theCube, thanks for that smart insight. TheCube coverage here, day two winding down. We got day three tomorrow. This is theCube covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon 2018. We'll be right back with more day two coverage after this short break. (happy electronic music)

>> Live from London, England, it's theCUBE covering .NEXT Conference Europe 2018 brought to you by Nutanix. >> Welcome back to theCUBE's coverage of Nutanix's .NEXT 2018 here in London, England. I'm Stu Miniman, my co-host is Joep Piscaer. 3500 here in attendance. Actually in the closing keynote, we just listened to Dr. Jane Goodall talk about her life's work, her next, where she's going. Really powerful content here to help round out what we're doing. We're actually really thrilled to have as our penultimate guest to the program Chetan Conikee who is the founder and CTO of ShiftLeft.io, a customer of Nutanix based out in San Francisco. Thanks so much for joining us. >> Thank you very much for having me Stu and Joep, pleasure. >> So Chetan, ShiftLeft.io, tell us a little bit about that. We love to hear from founders. What was the why, what did you see out there? What were you looking to do and then we'll get into it from there. >> Absolutely. We founded ShiftLeft back in December 2016. ShiftLeft is a venture-backed application security company. I co-founded ShiftLeft with the Chief Products Officer of FireEye and one of the core architects at Google. So our reason and emphasis to build out the security company was to essentially make security relevant to what they call as cloud-native applications. So ShiftLeft by virtue of the word meaning shift security to the left is bring securities awareness to the early stages of the software development lifecycle. As engineers write code, we have built a system that in a matter of minutes converts code to a graph, a graph akin to a social network. Almost like a social network graph except that it's connecting all the functions and variables in your code that represent the application. Now using that graph, we extract vulnerabilities that might exist in the code. Now as we know, engineers are focused on velocity, developing software and servicing their customers. So often security gets left behind, which is why we have built this autonomous agent that takes the data that we extracted during coding and protect the application in Runtime from imminent threats. >> Okay, we could spend an hour talking about this. Security is one of the hottest spaces, one of the biggest challenges in kind of modernizing this multi-cloud era, cloud-native absolutely. Maybe you'll be at theCUBE Con show in a couple weeks. We can talk even more about that because oh boy, so much to go there but you're a startup and what brings you to Nutanix is I guess the question. Come on, cloud-native, you should be born in the cloud. You're venture-backed, they probably don't want you spending lots of money on infrastructure. So maybe connect the dots with us as to how you ended up with Nutanix. >> Absolutely. The core ethos of ShiftLeft is observing, observing threats in real time and observing vulnerabilities that might exist in code. Observing means we have to make sure that our own infrastructure is protected from threats and at the same time we provide a high accessibility to our customers. Which means that we have to observe our own infrastructure which is why we subscribed early on to a Nutanix product called Epoch. Because the core essence of Epoch is to provide observability to infrastructure. Our infrastructure is very complex because every time engineers write code and commit code into GitHub or any other so-called management system, we react to that and at the same time if any threats are applied, when they deploy that code in production, we react to that as well. So it is important for us to maintain our uptime which is why we use Epoch to continuously observe our system for faults or any threats applied upon our own system and Epoch provides us that service, that service because our infrastructure is very complex. It is comprised of at least about 80 to 100 micro-services deployed in a cloud-native infrastructure. Now all these micro-services are working in concert with each other every time it receives an event, an event of a code check-in from a customer's ecosystem or any threats applied to our customers' infrastructure deployed in their private data centers or their cloud infrastructures. >> So let me get this right. You're a Nutanix customer but I'm guessing you're not the typical customer, right? You are not running their appliance in the data center but you're using different products. So I hear you mentioned Epoch which is observability. So that gives you insight into the system you are running. But to clarify, you're not running Nutanix in your data center? >> Absolutely, we are a cloud-native company. Our infrastructure entirely runs on Masels and Kubernetes which is deployed on AWS, Azure and GCP. So we are a multi-hybrid cloud ecosystem and Nutanix Epoch product is agnostic of the servers because it's a software-defined product that enables us to place hooks in the appropriate places of our software-defined or our software stack and then provide us the necessary observability. Observability from the perspective of latency, throughput or essentially any impact induced upon our infrastructure. >> So you are using it to monitor the sort of applications you're running in micro-services. So this is not even about infrastructure monitoring. This is about your application, it's uptime, error rates, thresholds, stuff like that. >> Absolutely because our system is comprised of a dense micro-service mesh which means that if one micro-service is down, it impacts a set of other micro-services which in turn impacts the customer as well. So what we do is try to identify cause and effect, correlate events and understand this dense and complex infrastructure. Nutanix Epoch has this cloud map feature that enabled us to dynamically plot the entire map of our infrastructure. This is almost akin to Google Maps because you can plot a from and to destination but upon that you might have traffic contention, accidents, tolls and everything else you can think of. So this is a similar situation with very dense and complex infrastructure as well, meaning if one service is down, it has this ripple side effect on other services as well. >> Yeah, I'm actually glad we got to interview you towards the end of our coverage here because one of the things we've been looking at is Nutanix has gone from basically two products to now they have a much broader portfolio. Some of those have been organically and some have been through acquisition. So Epoch which I believe is now under the Xi family, so Xi Epoch, I interviewed back in New Orleans, it was Netsil, Netsil came in through the acquisition. So I believe you've been using it since it was Netsil. >> Absolutely. >> What have you seen? I love kinda your outside viewpoint as to what's that meant to the product? Besides being renamed, what's the same, what's different and how do you see that impacting Epoch going forward? >> Absolutely, great question. For the most part the core product hasn't changed as much. The vision has always been carried on from what it used to be to what it is today. But the product has improved significantly. The user experience has improved significantly and now what they have is the foundation of Nutanix which is critical because there are various other product lines in Nutanix that can serve us better as well along with Epoch and we are looking forward to understanding what Beam is, what X-Ray is and there are various other product lines along with what we are already using at this point. >> Great, so I'm curious your experience here at the show. What brought you to the show? What conversations have you been having with your peers? We talked to Nutanix about what they're doing with the developers and about the cloud native space. How are they doing? You live in that space. How has Nutanix positioned themselves? >> Absolutely, I've been tracking Dheeraj and his crew for quite some time. I think they're doing a phenomenal job moving up the stack because eventually, being cloud native is critical at this point given that the majority of the new SMBs and SMEs are deploying in the cloud. So if Nutanix joins that bandwagon, it makes it relatively easy for Enterprise customers who have deployed in their own private data centers to cloud burst into Nutanix Enterprise Cloud. So over the past two days, the energy has been amazing. I presented with the Epoch crew and we got an amazing response, got to listen to customers. Their curiosity to adopting Epoch, given that they have been using Nutanix and also bursting into cloud native ecosystems as well which is why they want to understand and observe how their workloads are performing in the cloud. So very excited and looking forward to the future for the most part. >> So looking at your product, you deliver it, as I said service. You have software developers that develop that software and based on the announcements Nutanix has made in the last couple of days with Carbon and being able to develop cloud native apps, will that impact how you develop software or how you look at Nutanix as a partner for your company? >> We are growing at a very steady state and given that our core focus is security, some of our customers are on Wall Street which means that they have to ensure that they are deploying or subscribing to a service that has guarantees of its uptime and also that data is effectively protected. So we have commenced our journey as a cloud native company but that shouldn't impede us from moving into a private data center as well because our software fabric can be deployed both in a cloud native ecosystem and also on a private DC as well. So we're looking forward to working with Nutanix as a partner in the future as well if the opportunity permits. >> Yeah, so with the little time we have left, I want to get your viewpoint, talk to us about the security environment today. I'm an infrastructure guy by background and lived through, you've talked about virtualization. Been watching the containerization space, IOT greater increasing the surface area of everything. I know serverless is a whole can of worms as to how that fits in. So as we look to 2019 and going forward, what excites you and what worries you about the security space? >> What excites me is that, you know the surface is essentially getting abstracted. Back almost two decades ago, we were dealing with deploying in physical data centers on physical hosts. That transcended to VMs and then moved to Docker Unikernels and now we are speaking serverless. So in relatively, maybe in a click of a button or a single script, someone can deploy an application and that application can be scaled in a matter of minutes or seconds. So that's very exciting but what worries me is also that with the velocity and complexity, the risk is also getting amplified which means that applications are the target du jour. Applications were always the target du jour and they will continue to be as well because as engineers code even more faster, they will essentially always leave security behind. So it is important to understand the attack surface of the application because if we examine most of the recent attacks like Struts Equifax, the application was compromised and then the attacker laterally moved from host to host until they acquired or hit that asset, which is the data. So it is important to write secure software from the get-go and at the same time it is important to observe how a threat imposed by an adversarial entity correlates to a vulnerability. Which means that we have to be upfront and always observe our security from the very beginning of the software development lifecycle. So it equally excites me and worries me, which is why we decided to found ShiftLeft. >> All right, really appreciate getting to hear about ShiftLeft and your journey and what you're doing with Epoch, so thanks so much for joining us. >> Absolutely. >> And thank you for joining us. We'll be back with more coverage here from Butanix .NEXT 2018 in London, England. Thanks for watching theCUBE. >> Thank you. (up tempo electronic tones) >> Hi I'm John Walls, I've been with theCUBE for a couple of years serving as a host here on our broadcast, our flagship broadcast on SiliconANGLE TV. I like to think about the how's and the why's and the what's of technology. How does it work, why does it matter? What is it doing for end users? When I think about what theCUBE does and what it means, to me it's an off the chart benefit. The value is just immense because when theCUBE shows up, it puts a stamp of approval on your event that says man, you've arrived. I know you can't be everywhere. You'd like to be but what theCUBE--

live from San Francisco it's the cube covering Google cloud next 2018 brought to you by Google cloud and its ecosystem partners ok welcome back everyone we're live here in San Francisco this is the cubes exclusive coverage of Google clouds event next 18 Google next 18 s the hashtag we got two great guests talking about services kubernetes sto and the future of cloud aparna scene how's the group product manager of kubernetes and we have hen goldberg director of engineering of google cloud - amazing cube alumni x' really awesome guests here to break down why kubernetes why is Google cloud really doubling down on that is do a variety of other great multi cloud and on-premise activities guys welcome to the queue great to see you guys again thank you always a pleasure and again you know we love kubernetes the CN CF and we've talked many times about you know we were riffing and you know Luke who Chuck it was on Francisco who loves sto we thought service meshes are amazing you guys had a great open source presence with cube flow and a variety of other great things the open source contribution is recognized by Diane green and the whole industry as number one congratulations why is this deal so important we're seeing the big news at least for me this kind of nuances one datos available you get general availability we're supposed to be kind of after kubernetes made it but now sto is now happening faster why so what we've seen in the industry is that it only becomes too easy to create micro services or services overall but we still want to move fast so with the industry today how can you make sure that you have the right security policies how do you manage those services at scale and what if tio does really in one sense is to expand it it's decoupled the service development from the service operations so developers are free they don't need to take care of monitoring audit logging network traffic for example but instead the operation team has really sophisticated tool to manage all of that on behalf of the developers in a consistent way you know Penn and I did a session yesterday a spotlight session and it covered cloud services platform including ISTE oh we had a guest from eBay and eBay has been with Google kubernetes engine for a long time and they're also a contributor to the kubernetes open source project they talked about how they have hundreds of micro services and they're written in different languages so they're using gold Python Ruby everything under the Sun and as an operator how do you figure out how the services are communicating with each other how do you know which ones are healthy so they I asked him you know so how did you solve that complexity problem and he said boom you assist EO and I deployed this deal it deploys as just kind of like a sidecar proxy and it's auto injected so none of your developers have to do anything and then it's available in every service and it gives you so much out of the box it gives you traffic management it gives you security it gives you observability it gives you the ability to set quotas and to have SL o--'s and and that's really you know something that operators haven't had before describe SL lows for a second what is why is that important objectives so you can see an example so you can have an availability objective that this service should always always be available you know 99.9 percent of the time that's an SLO or you know the response rate needs to be have a certain type of latency so you can have a latency SLO but the key here with this deal is that as an operator previously Jeff was working Jeff from eBay he was working at the at the VM or container or network port level now he's working at the service level so he understands intelligence about the parts of the application that weren't there before and that has two things it makes him powerful right and more intelligent and secondly the developer doesn't need to worry about those things and I think one of the things for network guys out there is that it's like policy breeze policy to the equation now I want to ask course on the auto injections what's the role of the how much coding is involved in doing this zero coding how much how much developer times involved in injecting the sidecar proxies zero from a developer perspective that's not something that you need to worry about you you can focus on you know the chatbot your writing or the webpage your writing or whatever logic you're developing that's critical for your business that's gonna make you more competitive that's why you were hired as a developer right so you don't have to worry about the auto injection of sto and what we announced was really managed it's d1 gke so that's something that Google will manage for you in the future oh go ahead I want less thing about sto I think it also represented changing the transformation because before we were all about kubernetes and containers but definitely when we see the adoption the complexity is much broader so in DCP were actually introducing new solutions that are appropriate for that so easier for example works on both container eyes applications and VM based applications cloud build that we announced right it also works across applications of all types doesn't have to be only containers we introduced some tools for multi cluster management because we know all customers have multi cluster the large ones so really thinking about it how is in a holistic way we are solving those problems we've seen Google evolve its position in the enterprise clearly when we John and I first started talking to Google about cloud is like everything's going to cloud now we're seeing a lot of recognition of some of the challenges that enterprises face we heard a lot of announcements today that are resonating or going to resonate with the enterprise can you talk about the cloud services platform is that essentially your hybrid strategy is it encompass that maybe you could talk about that little bit closer services platform is a big part of our hybrid cloud strategy I mean for as a Google platform we also have networking and compute and we bridge private and public and that's a foundation but cloud services platform it comes from our heritage with open source it comes from our engagement with many large enterprises banks healthcare institutions retailers do so many of them here you know we had HSBC speaking we had target speaking we know that there are large portions of enterprise IT that are going to remain on premise that have to remain on premise because you know they're in a branch office or they have some sort of regulatory compliance or you know that's just where their developers are and they want to have a local environment so so we're very very sensitive and and knowledgeable about that and that's why we introduced cloud services platform as Google's technology in your environment on Prem so you can modernize where you are at your own pace so some of the things we heard today in the keynote we heard support for Oracle RAC and Exadata and sa P that's obviously traditional enterprises partnership with NetApp cloud armor shielded VMs these are all you know traditional enterprise things what enterprise grade features should we be looking for from cloud services platform so the first one which I actually love the most is the G key policy management one of the things we've heard from our customers they say okay portability is great consistency great but we want security portability right they now have those all of those environment how can they ensure that they're combined with the gtp are in all of their environments how they manage tenants in all of their environments in the same way and G key policy measurement is exactly that okay we're allowing customers to apply the same policy while not locking them in okay we're fully compatible with the kubernetes approach and the primitives of our bug enrolls but it is also aligned with G CPI M so you can actually manage it once and apply it to all your environment including clusters kubernetes cluster everywhere you have so I expect we'll have more and more effort in this area I'm making sure that everything is secured and consistent auto-scaling is that enterprise greed auto-scaling yes yes I mean auto-scaling is a inherent part of kubernetes so kubernetes scales your pods automatically that's a very mature I mean it's been stable for more than a year or probably two years and it's used everywhere so auto skip on auto scaling is something that's used and everywhere the thing about gke is that we also do cluster auto scaling cluster auto scaling is actually harder and we not only do it for CPU as we do it for GPUs which is innovative you know so we can scale an auto scale and auto implements Auto provision your GPUs if you machine learning we're gonna bring that on-prem - it's not in the first version but that's something that with the approach that we've taken to GK on Prem we're gonna be adding those kinds of capabilities that gonna be the go on parameters it's just an extension just got to get the job done or what time frame we look API that we've built it's a downward API that works with some sort of hardware clustering technology right now it's working with vSphere right and so it basically if you're under an underlying technology has that capability we will auto scale the cluster in the future you know I got to say you guys are like the dynamic duo of kubernetes seen you in the shows you had Linux Foundation events talk about the relationship between you guys you have an engineering your product management how were you guys organizer you're moving fast I mean just the progress since we've been interviewing you to CN CF segoe all just been significant since we started talking on the cube you see in kubernetes obviously you guys have some inside knowledge of that but it's really moving fast how is the team organized what's the magic internal formula that you guys are engineering and you guys are working as a team I've seen you guys opens is it just open stores is the internal talk about some of the dynamics we're working as one team one thing I love mostly about the Google culture is about doing the right thing for the user like the announcements you've seen yesterday on the on the keynote there are many many teams and I've been working together you know to get that done but you cannot see that right you don't see that there are so many different teams and different product managers and different engineering managers all working together but well I I think where we are right now I know is that really Google is backing up kubernetes and you can see it everywhere right you can see with ours our announcement about key native yeah for example so the idea of portability the idea of no lock-in is really important for us the idea of open cloud freedom of choice so because we're all aligned to that direction and we all agree about the principles is actually super easy to the she's very modest you know this type of thing doesn't just happen by itself right I mean of course google has a wonderful culture and we have a great team but I you know I really enjoy working with hen and she is an amazing leader she is the leader of the engineering team she also brings together these other teams you know every large company has many teams and the announcement at the scale that we made it and the vision that you see the cohesiveness of it right it comes from collaboration it comes from thinking as a team and you know the management and leadership depend has brought to the kubernetes project and to kubernetes and gke and cloud services platform is phenomenal it's an inspiration I really enjoy the progress congratulate and it's been great progress so I hear a lot of customers talk about things like hey you know they evaluate vendors you know those guys have done the work and it's kind of a categorical way of saying it's complete they're working hard they're doing the right things as you guys continue this mission what's some of the work that you're continuing to what's the work that you guys are doing the work we see some of that evidence if it does ascribe to someone says hey have you done the work to earn the cred in the crowd cloud what would it be how would you describe the work that you've done and the work that you're doing and continue to do what does that work what would you say that I mean I hope that we have done the work to you know to earn the credit I think we're very very conscientious you know in the kubernetes open source project I can say we have 300 plus contributors we are working not just on the future functionality but we work on the testing and the we work on the QA we work on all the documentation stuff we work on all the nitty-gritty details so I think that's where we earn the credit on the open source side I think in cloud and in Enterprise do well you're seeing a lot of it here today you know the announcements that you mentioned we're very very cognizant and I think the thing I like about one of the things that Diane said I liked very much as I think the industry underestimates us well when you talk about well we look at the kubernetes if I can call it a playbook it took the world by storm obviously solving some of your own problems you open source it develop the community should we think about it Co the same it's still the same way are you going to use that sort of similar approach it seems to be working yes doing open source is not easy okay managing and investing and building something like kubernetes requires a lot of effort by the way not just from Google we have a lot of people that working full time just on kubernetes the way we look at that we we look about the thing that we have valued the most like portability for example if there is anything that you would like to make a standard like with K native those are kind of thing that we really want to bring to the industry as open source technologies because we want to make sure that they will work for customers everywhere right we need we need to be genuine and really stand behind what we were saying to our customers so this is the way we look at things again another example you can see about Q flow right so we actually have a lot of examples or we want to make sure that we give those options so that's one it's one is for the customer the second thing I want actually the emphasize is the ecosystem and partners yeah we know that innovation not a lot of innovation will come from Google and we want to make sure that we empower our powders and the ecosystem to build new solutions and is again another way to do it yes I mean because we're talking before we came on camera about the importance of ecosystems Dave and I have covered many industries within you know enterprise and now cloud and big data and I see blockchain on the horizon another part of our coverage area ecosystems are super important when you have openness and you have inclusion inclusion Airy culture around building together and co-creation this is the ethos of open source but people need to make money right so at the end of the day we're you guys are not you're not a non-profit you know it's gonna make profit so instead of the partners so as the world turns to cloud there's going to be new value opportunities how do you guys view that ecosystem because is it yeah is it more educational is it more just keep up a lot of people want to be on the right side of history with cloud and begin a lot of things are changing how do you guys view that ecosystem in terms of nurturing it identifying it working with it building it sharing what's your thoughts sure you know I I believe that new technology comes with lots of opportunity we've seen this with kubernetes and I think going forward we see it it's not a zero-sum game you know there's a huge ecosystem that's grown up around kubernetes and now we see actually around sto a huge ecosystem as well the types of opportunities in the value chain I think that it changes it's not what it used to be right it's not so much I think taking care of hardware racking and stacking hardware it's higher level when we talked about SEO and how that raises the level of management I think there's a huge role for operators it's a transformative role you know and we've seen it at Google we have this thing called site reliability engineering sre it's a big thing like those people are God you know when it comes to your services I think that's gonna happen in the enterprise that's gonna be a real role that's an Operations role and then of course developers their life changes and I think even like for regular people you know for kids for you and I and normal people they can become developers and start writing applications so I think there's a huge shift that's a huge thing you're touching on a lot of areas of IT transformation you know talking about the operations piece we've touched upon some of the application development how do you guys look at IT transformation and what are some of your customers doing IT transformation is enabled by you know this raising of the level of abstraction by having a multi cluster multi cloud environment what I see in in the customer base is that they don't want to be limited to one type of cloud they don't want to be limited to just what's on Prem or just what's in one you know in any one cloud they want to be able to consume best-of-breed they want to be able to take what they have and modernize it even if it's even if they can't completely rewrite or even if they can't completely transform it they want to be able they wanted to be able to participate so they even they want their mainframes to be able to participate but yeah I had one customers say you know I I don't want to have two platforms a slow platform and a fast platform I want just a fast platform know about the future now as we end the segment here I want to get your thoughts we're gonna see CN CF s coming up to Seattle in a couple months and also his ST O's got great traction with I'll see with the support and and general availability but what's the impact of the customers because gke Google Cabernets engine is evolving to be the single in her face it's almost as ease of use because that's a real part of what you guys are trying to do is make it easy the abstraction layer is gonna create new business models obviously we see that with the transformation fee she were just mentioning the end of the day I got to operate something I'm a network guy I'm now gonna might be a operating the entire environment I'm gonna enable my developers to be modern fast or whatever they want to be in the day you got to run things got to manage it so what does gke turn into what's the vision can you share your thoughts on on how this transforms and what's the trajectory look like so our goal is actually to help automate that for our customers so they can focus elsewhere as we said from the operations perspective making things more reliable defining the SLO understanding what kind of service they want to provide their customers and our hope you know you can again you can see in other things that we are building like Auto ml okay actually giving more tools to provide those capabilities to the application I think that's really see more and more so the operators will manage services and they will do it across clusters and across environments this is this is a new skill set you know it's the sre skill set but but even bigger because it's not just in one cloud it's across clouds yeah it's not easy they're gonna do it with centralized policy centralized control security compliance all of that so you see us re which is site reliability engineers at Google term but you see that being a role in enterprises and it's also knowing what services to use when what's going to be the most cost effective the right service for the right job that's really an important point I agree I think yeah I think security I think cost perspective was something definitely that will see enterprises investing more in and understanding and how they can leverage that right for their own benefit the admin the operator is gonna say okay I've got this on Prem I've got these three different regions I have to be that traffic coordinator to figure out who can talk to who where should this traffic go there's who should have how much quota all of that right that's the operator role that's the new roles so it's a it's an opportunity for operations people who might have spent their lives managing lawns to really transform their careers yes there's no better time to be an operator I mean you can I want to be an operator and I can't tell you how my dear sorry impacts our team like the engineering team how much they bring the focus on customer the service we are giving to our customers thinking about our services in different ways I think that actually is super important for any engineering team to have that balance okay final questions just put you on the spot real quick answer great stuff congratulations on the work you guys are doing great to follow the progress but I'm a customer I'll put my customer hat on par in ahead I can get that on Amazon Microsoft's got kubernetes why Google cloud what makes Google cloud different if kubernetes is open why should I use Google Cloud so you're right and the wonderful thing is that Google is actually all in kubernetes and we are the first public cloud that actually providing a managed kubernetes on-prem well the first cloud provider to have a GCP marketplace with a kubernetes application production-ready with our partners so if you're all in kubernetes I would say that it's obvious yeah III see most of the customers wanting to be multi cloud and to have choice and that is something that you know is very aligned with what we're look at this crowd win open source is winning great to have you on a part of hend thanks for coming on dynamic duo and kubernetes is - a lot of new services are happening we're bringing all those services here in the cube it's our content here from Google cloud Google next I'm Jennifer and David Lonnie we'll be right back stay with us for more day two coverage after this short break thank you

>> Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE, covering Google Cloud Next 2018, brought to you by Google Cloud and its ecosystem partners. (electronic music) >> Hello, everyone, welcome to theCUBE, here, live in San Francisco at Masconi South. We're here with Google Cloud Next Conference. It's Google Next 2018. It's theCUBE's exclusive three days of wall-to-wall coverage. I'm John Furrier, and I'm joined with my co-host Dave Vallente. Jeff Rick's here, the whole team is here. This is a big break out moment for Google Cloud and we're going to break it down for you. Going to have interviews with Diane Green coming in today, Google Executives, Google's top women in the Cloud, top customers, and top people within the ecosystem. Google Cloud is really going to the next level. This show is really about coming out party for two years of work that Diane Green and her team have been doing, transforming Google from the largest Cloud for their own business, to making Google Cloud consumable and easy to use with the technology for large enterprise customers as well as developers around the world, global platform. Dave, we had the keynote here. I'd say Google we're seeing, introduce their Google Cloud service platform GCP certifying partners, Cisco announced on stage they are re-selling Google Cloud, which takes a big objection off the table around not having a quote, "Enterprise ready sales force". Google is in every large enterprise, Google's Cloud is morphing into a large scale technology driven Cloud. The number one advantage they have is their technology, their OpenSource, and now a partnership with Cisco, and all the machine learning and all the infrastructure that they have are bringing out a new look. This is Google's coming out party. This is really two years of hard work, that Diane Green and the team have accomplished. Working, bringing on new people, bringing on a whole new set of capabilities. Checking the boxes for the table stakes, trying to get it to pull position, for the Cloud game, obviously Amazon is significantly ahead of everybody. Microsoft making great progress, their stock is up. Microsoft, although leveraging their core confidency, the enterprise and the office, and all the existing business that they do. Again a B to B, Google bringing in end-user centric view with all the automation. Big announcements. Google Cloud services platform, Histeo is now shipping in production, doubling down on Kubernetes, this is Google looking at new abstraction layers for developers and businesses. Diane Green, not the most elegant in her keynotes, but really hitting all her marks that she needed to hit. Big customer references, and really showcasing their competitive advantage, what they want to do, the posture of Google Cloud is clear, next is the execution. >> So here at Google Next 25,000 registered people, so big crowd. Diane Green said on stage 3000 engineers here, we want to talk to you. The Cisco announcements, classic case of a company without a Cloud, wanting to partner up with somebody that has a Cloud, Google, and Google, without a big enterprise sales presence. Obviously Cisco brings that. So kind of match made in heaven. Obviously, Cisco's got relationships with other Cloud providers, particularly Microsoft but, to me this makes a lot of sense. It's going GA in August, you also saw underneath that, GKE, Google Kubernetes Engine, now it's on prem, so you're seeing recognition of hybrid. We heard Diane Green talk about two years ago when she started John, she got a lot of heat from the analysts. You're not really an enterprise company, you got a long way to go, it's going to take you a decade. She basically laid down the gun and said, we are there. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about what leadership means. You just made a comment that Amazon is obviously in the lead. What is leadership? How does Google define leadership? Clearly they're leading in aspects of the Cloud. Scale, automation, OpenSource, contributing a lot, it makes me wonder, does this hundred plus billion dollar company with a hundred billion dollars in the bank, do they really care about how much money they make in the enterprise? Or are they trying to sort of change the way in which people do development, do programming, that's maybe a form of leadership that we really haven't often seen in the industry. I mean I go back, I harken back, not that it's an exact comparison, but you think about Xerox park and all the contributions they made to the industry, think about the contributions that Google's making with TensorFlow, with Kubernetes, with Istio, a lot of OpenSource chops giving to the community. And taking their time about monetizing it, not that a couple billion dollars or billion dollars a quarter is not monetization, but compared to 25 billion of Amazon, and what Microsoft's doing it's much smaller market share. >> I mean that's a great point about the monet, all the analysts and all the Wall Street guys are going to go to try to figure out, squint through the numbers try to figure out how you make money on this. We've been talking to a lot of the Google Executives and a lot of the engineers leading up to Google Next, we've had great relationship, some of their inside people. The common theme Dave that I'm hearing is absolutely they're playing the long game, but if Google's smart, they will leverage their retail business, ads and other things, and not focus on the short-term monetization, and that's pretty clear, some of the posture. That they're looking at this as an engineering culture, engineering DNA, OpenSource DNA, and they're about speed. When I press Google people and say, "What is the DNA of Google Cloud?". It all comes back down to the same thing, inclusive, open, speed. They're going to focus on how to make things faster, that has always been the culture at Google, make page loads faster, make things go faster. Amazon has the notion of, ship things as fast as possible at lower prices. Amazon is make stuff go faster and make it easy to use from a consumer standpoint so, easy of use has always been a consumer DNA of Google, and now with Cloud, if they don't focus on the short-term, they continue to march the cadence of open, speed, ease of use, and take that user-centric view, to make things easier that's key. I'm really impressed with the announcement, one little kind of technical kind of nuance is this Istio. Istio is an extension of Kubernetes, and this is where you're starting to see some signals from Google on where they're going to be scanning through with (mumbles). And that is as Kubernetes builds on top of containers, and as Kubernetes starts to be more of an orchestration layer, the services that are deployed in the Cloud are going to have more and more functionality. This is classic moving up the stack. This is an only an opportunity to build abstraction layers, that make things really easy to consume, and make things faster. If they can get that position, that beach head, they will enable developer greatness, and that'll maybe hopefully change the game a little bit, and sling shot them into a position that's different than what Amazon, I mean, what Microsoft's doing. Microsoft's just brute force, throwing everything at Cloud. The numbers look good on paper, but will that truly translate to ease of use, large scale, global deployment, managing data at scale. I mean Google's great some technology, and that is their number one thing that they have a their disposal. >> Well Istio, the classic case of dog fooding, right John? I mean there's Google, using tons and tons of micro services for its own purposes, enter gate, how do we simplify this? How do we automate this? And how do we pay it forward? And that's what they do, that's their culture. This is a company that's, again, talk about leadership, they spent well over $10 billion a year on Capex, you can argue easily they got the biggest Cloud in the world, certainly they got more underwater cable, the biggest network in the world, so these are forms of leadership. Diane Green talked about information technology powering every aspect of the business. I mean we've heard that since Nick Carr said IT doesn't matter, but now it seems like more than ever, it's more important. She also said CIO's realized they're not in the data center business, but yet they only have a small fraction of their workloads in the Cloud. This is why she said Google is seeing, and others I'm sure, seeing such big growth in the Cloud. But then she underscored, but we're modern Cloud. We're not lift and shift Cloud. We're not doing what Oracle's doing and sticking the existing apps in the Cloud. We're doing things differently. You talk about this a lot John, you talked to a couple of really high level women in Google, about the new development model, the new programming model, they're really changing the way in which people think about software development. >> Yeah I mean I think one of the things that's clear is that, the modern era can hear around software development. Software development life cycle, certainly we hear, Agile have been going on for the DevOps movement and that's kind of been out there, but what's changing now is that software engineering, or software development, isn't just computer science. You don't need three computer science degrees to do Cloud and do development. The aperture is widening on what computer science is, that's opening up more women in tech, and as Diane Green pointed out on her keynote, there's a re-engineering of business going on, there's new discoveries happening, and half the population is women, and so women should be part of making the products consumed by women and other people. So there's a huge opportunity to fill the gender diversity gap, but more importantly I think what's interesting about Google Cloud in particular is that they kind of figured out something, and it might have been a pop to their arrogance balloon but it used to be, "Oh, everyone wants to be like Google, 'cause we're so huge and we're great". 'Cause they are. Their technology is phenomenal, you look at what Google's built and Urs has been on stage, they have built probably the best most complex system to power their business, and all of a sudden that's come out from map produced paper, Kubernetes, which they're now doubling down on, Google has done amazing. They're about 10 to 15 years ahead of the market in terms of technology by my estimate. The problem that they've had when they first started doing Cloud was, oh just, you want to be like Google. No people don't want to be like Google, people can't be like Google, what they now understand is that people want what Google has, and that's ease of use, DevOps, fully com instead of libraries, com instead of interfaces, really ease of rolling out at scale applications. That's different. People want the benefits of what Google has for their business, not, they don't want to be like Google. I think that was the, I think that Diane Green two years ago, came in and reset. They've hired great enterprise people, and the question is can they catch up? How fast can they catch up? They're checking the boxes, they're doing the table stakes, and can they harvest the best that they're making? Auto ML is a great example. IT operations is going to be decimated as an industry sector. All the industry analysts and the financial analysts have not yet observed this but, anyone who's in the business of IT operations is going to get decimated. Automation's going to take that away and make it a service, it's going to be a human component, but the value is going to shift up the stack. This is something that we're seeing as to look at value of start ups, IT operations, AI operations, this is a new category of the industry, and Google is betting on that. That to me is a big tell sign. >> And we've been talking about the economics of that for years, but I want to come back to something you said. Google clearly was late to the enterprise party, and I think part of the reason you were touching on this is I think they underestimated the degree to which organizations, enterprise in particular, have all this technical debt built up. You can't just rip out and replace, these companies are making money with their existing Oracle databases, with their existing outdated processes, but they're making money, they're meeting Wall Street expectations, they're making their big bonuses so they can't just stop doing that. It'd be like Google to your point, but Google is playing the long game, they are doing something differently, and they're trying to help people get to this new era of software development, so I think that's a very very important point. >> Melody Meckfessel, one of the VP of Engineering, she is going to announce a survey that she did. It's interesting, they pulled the human aspect of development, and they asked the question, "What do you care about?". And developers care about generally the enterprise and kind of Cloud native developers, really two things. Technical debt, and time to push code. If technical debt accumulates, that's a huge problem, makes them unhappy, makes them kind of, not happy with how things are going, and then also speed. If you're shipping code it takes more than a few minutes to get back the commits that it hit. That's a problem. This is a huge issue. You said technical debt. Enterprise IT has been accumulating decades of technical debt, that's now running the company. So as re-engineering the business theme that Diane Green points out, really is spot on, people are going to stop buying IT and be deploying services more in the future, and using those services to drive business value. This to me is a big shift, this is what's going to hurt in (mumbles) and enterprises that, no one's buying IT. They're building platforms, the product is the platform, and the sense of services will enable applications to sit on top of them. This is an absolute mindset shift, and that impacts every vertical that we cover. You've covered IOT and everything else. The way CIOs think about this is they think about a portfolio, and it's just to simplify it. It's like run the business, grow the business, transform the business. And by far, the biggest investments are in run the business, and they can't stop running the business, they can't stop investing in running that business. What they can do is say, okay we can grow the business with these new projects and these new initiatives, and we can transform the business with new models of software development, as we transform into a digital company as a software company. So that it increasingly going to be pouring investments there, and it's slowly sunset, the run the business apps. It happens over decades. It doesn't happen over night. >> Well that's actually the number one point I think that didn't come out in the keynote but Earl's talked about it, where he said the old model is lift and shift. When we covered at the Linux foundation, and the CNC app, and the other shows that we go to is that what containers and Kubernetes are bringing to the market, the real value of that, is that existing IT CIOs don't have to rip and replace old apps, and that's a lot of pressure, the engineering requirements, there's personnel requirements, there's migration, so with Kubernetes and containers, containers and Kubernetes, you can essentially keep them around for as long as they need to be around. So you can sunset the applications and let the apps take its natural life cycle course, while bringing in new functionality. So if you want to be Cloud native right out of the gate, with Google Cloud, and some of these great services, like AI and machine learning that's going on, you can actually bring it in natively, containerize and with Kubernetes and now Istio, build a set of services to connect existing applications, and not feel the pressure and the heat, the budget for it, the engineer for it, to actually hire against it, to manage the existing life cycle. This is a huge accelerant for Cloud native. The rip and replace doesn't have to happen. You can certainly sunset applications at will, but you need to kill the old, to bring in the new. This is a very very important point. >> Yeah so a couple things that Diane Green hit on that I just want to go quickly through her keynote. She talked about, like you say, a small fraction of workloads are actually in the Cloud, but she asked the question, why Google? She said "Look, we're an enterprise company, but we're a modern enterprise company. We take all the information from that Cloud, we organize it, we allow you to put it back intelligently. We've got a global Cloud and it's unbelievably complex. We've got 20 years of scaling and optimizing, with that elite team. We've the most advanced Cloud in the world". She said, she didn't give the number, but many many football size, football stadium size data centers around the world that are carbon neutral with tons of fiber under the ocean, specialized processors, talked about Spanner, which is this amazing distributed, globally distributed consistent transactional database, big query, and she also talked about a consistency with a common core set of primitives. Now I want to ask her about that, 'cause I think she was taking a shot at Amazon, but I'm not sure, if they have a, to make a similar statement, so we're going to ask her about that when she comes on. She also said, the last thing I'll share with you is, "AI and security are basically hand in hand". She said security is what everybody's worried about, AI is the big opportunity, those are the two areas where Google is putting some of its greatest resources. >> That was my favorite sound bite by the way, she said, "Security's the number one worry, and AI is the number one opportunity". Really kind of points to it. On the primitive things, I don't think that's so much a shot at Amazon, as in it's more of multi Cloud. We've been kind of seeing multi Cloud vapor ware for months, past year, 'cause it kind of is. What we were seeing with Cloud native community and OpenSource is multi Cloud can only happen if you can run the same map across multiple Clouds with common interfaces, and that ultimately is I think what they're trying to solve. My favorite sound bites from her keynote is, she said, quote, "We've got 20 years scaling Google Cloud", it's obviously very large, number one Cloud, if you want to put Clouds in benchmarks and without (mumbles) of the enterprise number one, in terms of tech and scale. But she says, "My main job at Google two years ago was surfacing the great technologies and services, and make it easy to use. We have a technical infrastructure, TI, that has big query, Spanner, and then consistencies across all primitives", and she said on top of the technical infrastructure they got Gmail, Gsuite, maps, et cetera et cetera, powering at large scale, dealing with all the threat intelligence, and a ton of body of technology around II. And then to cap it all off, leader in OpenSource. To me this is where Google's betting big, with security as the number one worry, which is a major check box with AI kind of the catnip for developers. And they got security features. If you compare Amazon to Google Cloud, Amazon wins on sense of services in terms of number of features, but the question is, does Google have the right features? These are the questions we're going to have. And the dig at Amazon was Reed Hastings, Netflix CEO, friend of Diane Green, I've seen them both speak at Stanford, so she bumped into, what she said, "Reed Hastings is a power user of Google Chrome and Gsuite", and kind of said how great it is, but that's not Netflix. Now Netflix is an Amazon customer, so interesting jab there was about Reed Hastings personally but not about Netflix being a customer of Google Cloud. The question is, can Diane Green convince Reed Hastings to move Netflix from Amazon to Google Cloud? That's the question I'm going to ask her. >> The other piece of the keynote that I thought was quite interesting was Urs Holzle, who's the Senior Vice President of Technology Infrastructure who was doing Cloud before anybody talked about Cloud, he said, "Cloud's a fundamental shift in computing. GCP gives you access to unlimited computing on the world's largest network". Talked about Spanner, the globally consistent distributed database, ML APIs for doing speech and natural language recognition. Big query, the big data warehouse, basically a silo buster, but he said what's still missing, is essentially that hybrid (mumbles) all the Cloud's are different. I interpreted that meaning closed. So he said, "Things like setting up a network, provisioning a virtual machine, are all different". And basically to your point John, that stuff is going to get automated away. So Istio, they talked about Apogee, visibility, orchestration, serverless, they talked about GKE on prem, which is Google Kubernetes Engine on prem, and then Cisco came out on stage. The big partnership, the big news from the keynote. >> Lets talk about what we're going to look for this week in Google Cloud, and also within the industry. Dave I'll start. I'm looking for Google's technology architecture map, which I love, I think they've got a great solution, does that translate to the enterprise? In other words, can they take what Google has and make it usable and consumable for enterprises without having the be like Google strategy, use what Google has benefited from, in a way that enterprises can consume. I'm going to look for that, see how the technology can fit in there. And then I think the most important thing that I'm going to swing through all the hype here and the comment and the news and Kool Aid that they're spreading around, is how are they making the ecosystem money? Because if Google Cloud wants to take the long game, they got to secure the beach head of the viable, large scale Cloud which I think they're doing extremely well. Can they translate that into a ecosystem flourishing market? Does that make money for developers? They talk about going into verticals as a core strategy and healthcare being one. Can they go in there, in financial services, manufacturing, transportation, gaming and media, and attract the kind of partners and business customers that allow them to do better business? Does it translate the distribution for developers? Do businesses make more money with Google? That to me is the ultimate tell sign with how Google Cloud translates to the market place. Ecosystem, benchmark, and value to customers in terms of money making, utility of the users, and their customers' customers. >> So two things for me John. One is the same as yours is ecosystem. I learned from the SiliconANGLE editorial team, by the way, go to siliconangle.com, there's some great editorial to drop this week in support of just what's going on in Cloud and Google Next, but I learned from reading that stuff, Google late to the party. Only 13,000 partners. Amazon's got 100,000 Cloud partners. (mumbles) has 70,000 Cloud partners. Where, what's the ecosystem strategy, how are they going to grow? How are they going to help make money? The second thing is, basic question, I want to understand what Google wants in the Cloud. What's their objective? I know Amazon wants to dominate infrastructures of services, and be the leader there. I know that Microsoft wants to take its existing software state, bring it to the Cloud. I'm not really clear on what exactly Google's objectives are. So I want to get clarity on that. >> I think it's going to be developers, and one of the things we're going to dig into as the OpenSource. theCUBE coverage here in San Francisco, live coverage of three days wall-to-wall, (mumbles) Dave Vallante, stay with us. thecube.net is where you can find the live feed if you're watching this on SiliconANGLE or around the web, or with Syndicate. Go to thecube.net to get all the content, and siliconangle.com has a Cloud special this week. The team is putting out a ton of content. Covering the news, critical analysis, and what it means and the impact of Google Cloud into the industry and to their customers. So I'm John Furrier, Dave Vallante, stay with us, live coverage here, be right back. (electronic music)

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone here live in San Francisco at Moscone West of cubes exclusive coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John four with mykos John Troy a founder of tech reckoning advisory and on community services firm our next guest is Jason O'Connell openshift platform owner of mark mcquarrie group welcome to the cubes let's get it right that's right well the retail bank of Macquarie so thank you and financial services thanks for coming on so bossy begging is pretty hot big time early adopter of all things tech yes and you doing a lot of work at kubernetes tell us about what you're doing take a minute to explain your job what your focus is some of the some of the environment DevOps things you're doing it's a basically I'm head of the container platform team at Macquarie Bank so basically my team manages open shifts on AWS we do the architecture on there but we also focus a lot on the value add on top so we don't just give our our customers for my team are the developers and the development teams we don't just give them a blank platform we do a lot of automation a lot of work on top of that basically because we want to make sure that the idea of a platform as a service is that we do as much as possible to make developers lives easy talk about the journey when did you start on this effort Asli Amazon's great cloud we use it as well other clouds are coming on you had Google and Microsoft and others but when did the open shift conversations start happening where were you what year was it how long have you been using it it's gone through some great changes I want to get your experience on that open shifter journey I mean somewhat of an early adopter I mean we started looking at this two years ago so that was openshift 3.1 a lot of the basic features weren't even there and it took us a year to both build it out as well as migrate about 40 applications to production so it was only a year ago that we've been in production so it's evolved like so rapidly during that time so 40 applications migrating right that enough in and of itself in a year is is a pretty heavy lift can you talk a little bit about are you just re platforming the applications obviously probably not rewriting at this point the open shift has been a good home for the applications that you started out with it sounds like I mean one of the reasons to choose open shift was docker and it was about that migration path I mean part of the migration was ensuring that developers could get everything running locally get these legacy systems we did a lot of micro services running locally on docker containers on their laptop then the migration was was easy from there but we deliberately didn't want to do like a lift and shift we wanted to rethink how we delivered software as part of this project okay what's the biggest challenges you had in doing this I mean as you can open ships got some great movement Houston Cooper native good bet and kubernetes is looking like a really awesome way to move workloads around and manage containers and clusters so you know what's what are some of the things we've learned what are some of the complexities that you overcame can you share a little bit about some of the specifics I think I think the newness is is probably the biggest challenge I mean going back to two years ago there was some very basic components that weren't there at the time and we knew were coming and even now there are pieces of work which we just don't tackle and we do a very quick fix because we know it's coming later I mean it's just moving and evolving so quickly you know we're waiting a lot for sto which is coming in the future so we're holding back on investing in certain areas because of that so it's always a constant challenge yeah I still looking good and the service mesh is hot as well how has OpenShift helped you but what's the list if you had to kind of boil it down what's the bin the the impact to you guys where's the where's that coming from I mean before we even selected OpenShift we had we're looking at our objectives from a business perspective not a technology perspective I'm the biggest objective we had was speed to delivery you know how could you get a business idea a product idea into production as fast as possible or even if you look at a minor fix to something something that should be easier develop it takes a data ride why does it take a month to release the production so speed of delivery was one of the key objectives and I can tell you more about how we we delivered that in detail but just going back to the objectives we also looked at developer experience you know sometimes the developers are not spending enough time coding and doing it they want they get bogged down in a lot of other pieces of work that I I'm really delivering business value yeah so again we wanted the platform to handle that for them they could focus more on their work this is the promise of DevOps and the whole idea of DevOps is to automate away the hassles and I mean my partner Dave a lot that calls a rock fetches no one likes to do all that work it's like can someone else just handle it and then when you got now automation that frees it up but this brings up the thing that I would love to get your reaction to because one things we've been covering and talking a lot about in the cube is this isn't happening around us it's not just what we're doing but this new modern way to deploy software you'll get like some of the big things that are happening in with cloud native and you mission is do is to do this awesome dynamic things on the fly that are automated away so it changes the how software is being built how are you guys embracing that what's the thought obviously you've got a team that's got the mindset of dev yeah I'll see embracing this vision and if everything else is probably substandard she'll you look at you know waterfall or any kind of non agile what is the your view of this modern era of writing code and building applications what I mean for people who don't aren't getting it how are you how do you explain it you know I think it's I mean it's an unbelievable time that we're in at the moment I mean the amount of automation that we're doing is huge and part of our openshift is that it's an automated bull platform so I've got a few junior guys in my team they're like two graduates and in turn they do a lot of the automation yeah it's that easy if you look at interestingly in like security and risk teams and governance teams where we're finding look they can improve security risk and all this by automating you know they're the one set and now we've got SEC offs movements and things like that so speed of production is is does not prohibit better security and in fact with Sec ups the amount of automation we do you got a far greater amount of security because we now know everything that's deployed we can continually scanning for vulnerabilities yeah so Jason you talked about it being new we've talked a little bit about culture how much of this has been a training exercise how much is that it's been a cultural shift within your organization as one of the leaders of it how are you approaching I mean we're lucky there within Macquarie Bank there was a large scale culture shift towards agile where the whole bank runs in that gel manner so that's helped us then fill in our technology and automation it complements that way of delivering so we've got some very unique ways where we've done automation and delivery which completely rethinks how we used to deliver before so right example yeah for instance now if you think why were people scared of delivering something into production why was a small change scary change and a big part of it is the blast radius if something went wrong you know connecting through to our API is we've got our own channels mobile apps a website you've got a lot of partners there are the companies connecting through as well and so even if you did a small change if it costs an issue everyone's affected at once so a big piece of what we did to deliver faster is allowed targeted releases you know I could target a release and a change just to you we could target it to a percentage of customers monitor rolled out quickly if there's a problem dial it up if it's looking good good target to any channel it seems like there's a business benefit to that too right that's massive here because you also can promise stability on certain channels if you want you can have faster channels that are moving quickly and in an API driven world we've got external companies connecting through to these api's you want to be able to say that we've given you a stable offering and you can upgrade when you want and then our channels we cannot move more fast so we've got a minister no-brainer I mean really the old way is completely dead because of that because I think what the blast radius you're pointing about blast radius the risk is massive so everyone's kind of on edge all these tests have to go in redundancies as if the planning is ridiculous all for the risk all that energy you're optimizing for a potential non-event or event here with micro services and you an out can go down to the granular level the granularity is really amazing so when you go forward first of all it's a recruiting opportunity to get better engineers wait this is a way we work I'm going forward I want you to comment on your opinion as an industry participant and can clarify this because a lot of people get confused here Automation they think jobs are going away administration is getting automated system admin type roles where junior people can now do more operating things but the operating roles not going away so talk about that that ops side because now the ops are more efficient the right things are audited maybe but talk about that dynamic between the right things being automated and the right things that are gonna roll to operational service messages or whatnot yeah I mean basically it's about getting people to do these higher-order functions so the people who are doing things manually and operating things manually you look at our Ops teams now morphing into like the classic SRE team you know the side reliability engineering teams where they're spending a significant amount of that time automating things you know looking at alerting and monitoring and then Auto healing I mean it's actually more work to automate everything but with a far greater amount of quality and reliability and what we get and the benefits are long it's worth it basically you do the work upfront and you reap the benefits and then variety away it's like writing rolling out software managing workloads talk about multi class here on Amazon multi cloud is a big focus to your hybrid cloud multi-cloud obviously we're seeing that trend how do you look at multi cloud as a practitioner what are some of the things that check our check boxes for you in terms of okay as we start looking to the next level there might be a multiple cloud scenario how do you think about that and how do you put that into perspective that's worth noting even two years ago and we selected openshift it was with the idea that we could go multi cloud you know that for the users for the developers they're not going to know the difference where we run it on so we're not locked into any provider final question for you if you can boil down openshift into kind of like a soundbite for you what does it mean to you guys what's been the benefit what's been it it's been that what's been the role what's the benefit of OpenShift as you pour the cloud journey you know I could say speed I could say automation I mean that's huge but but really open shift and read how to pick the winner which is docker and kubernetes and a colleague of mine is in coop con in Copenhagen last week he's constantly messaging me saying there's new tooling you guys can use this you can use that and it means that rather than us doing the work we're just getting tooling from the community so it's the de facto standards so that's that's probably the biggest benefit all the goodness is just coming right to your front door luckily and I got to do my homework every night playing around with this technology so yeah gates success story and again the great community open-source projects out there you guys can bring that in and productize it for the retail bank congratulations love open-source stories like this tier one citizen and again continues to power the world open source softens the cube do our part bring and use all the data from Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John fryer with John Tory we'll be back with more after this short break

from San Francisco it's the queue covering Red Hat summit 2018 brought to you by Red Hat hey welcome back everyone here live in San Francisco at Moscone West of cubes exclusive coverage of Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John four with mykos John Shroyer founder of tech reckoning advisory and on community services firm our next guest is Jason O'Connell openshift platform owner of mark McQuarrie group welcome to the Cuse let's get it right that's right well the retail bank of Macquarie so thank you and financial services thanks for coming on so bas lead banking is pretty hot big-time early adopter of all things tech yes and you doing a lot of work at kubernetes tell us about what you're doing take a minute to explain your job what your focus is some of the some of the environment DevOps things you're doing that's the basic I'm head of the container platforms team at Macquarie Bank so basically my team manages open shifts on AWS we do the architecture on there but we also focus a lot on the value add on top so we don't just give our our customers for my team are the developers and the development teams we don't just give them a blank platform we do a lot of automation a lot of work on top of that basically because we want to make sure that the idea of a platform as a service is that we do as much as possible to make developers lives easy tell about the journey when did you start on this effort Asli Amazon's great cloud we use it as well other clouds are coming on you got Google and Microsoft and others but when did the open shift conversations start happening where were you what year was it how long have you been using it it's gone through some great changes I want to get your experience on that opened she have to journey I mean somewhat of an early adopter I mean we started looking at this two years ago so that was openshift 3.1 a lot of the basic features weren't even there but it took us a year to both build it out as well as migrate about 40 applications to production so there's only a year ago that we've been in production so it's evolved like so rapidly during that time so 40 applications migrating right that enough in and of itself in a year is is a pretty heavy lift can you talk a little bit about are you just replied forming the applications obviously probably not rewriting at this point the open shift has been a good home for the applications that you started out with it sounds like I mean one of the reasons to choose openshift was docker and it was about that migration path I mean part of the migration was ensuring that developers could get everything running locally get these legacy systems we did a lot of micro services running locally on docker containers on their laptop then the migration was was easy from there but we deliberately didn't want to do like a lift and shift we wanted to rethink how we delivered software as part of this project okay what's the biggest challenges you had in doing this I mean as you go but she has got some great movements you could burn aces a good bet and kubernetes is looking like a really awesome way to move workloads around and manage containers and clusters so you know what's what are some of the things we've learned what are some of the complexities that you overcame can you share a little bit about some of the specifics I think I think the newness is is probably the biggest challenge I mean going back to two years ago there were some very basic components that weren't there at the time when we knew were coming and even now there are pieces of work which we just don't tackle and we do a very quick fix because we know it's coming later I mean it's just moving and evolving so quickly you know we're waiting a lot for sto which is coming in the future so we're holding back on investing in certain areas because of that so it's always a constant challenge yeah I still looking good and the service mesh is hot as well how has OpenShift helped you but what's the what's the if you had to kind of boil it down what's the been the the impact to you guys where's the where's that coming from I mean before we even selected OpenShift we had we're looking at our objectives from a business perspective not a technology perspective I'm the biggest objective we had with speed to delivery you know how could you get a business idea a product idea into production as fast as possible or even if you look at a minor fix to something something that should be easier develop it takes a data ride why does it take a month to release the production so speed of delivery was one of the key objectives and I can tell you more about how we we delivered that in detail but just going back to the objectives we also looked at developer experience you know sometimes the developers are not spending enough time coding and doing if they want they get bogged down in a lot of other pieces of work dinner I'm really delivering business value yeah so again we wanted the platform to handle that for them they could focus more on their work and this is the promise of DevOps and the whole idea of DevOps is to automate away the hassles and I mean my part to Dave a lot that calls a rock fetches no one likes to do all that work it's like can someone else just handle it and then when you got now automation that frees it up but this brings up the thing I would love to get your reaction to because one things we've been covering and talking a lot about in the cube is this is been happening around us it's not just what we're doing but this new modern way to deploy software you look at like some of the big things that are happening in with cloud native and you mention SEO is to do this awesome dynamic things on the fly that are automated away so it changes the how software is being built how are you guys embracing that what's the thought oh so you've got a team that's got the mindset of DevOps yeah I'll see embracing this vision and if everything else is probably substandard she'll you look at you know waterfall or any kind of non agile what is the your view of this modern era of writing code and building applications what I mean for people who don't aren't getting it how are you how do you explain it you know I think it's I mean it's an unbelievable time that we're in at the moment I mean the amount of automation that we're doing is huge and part of our openshift is that it's an automated bull platform so I've got a few junior guys in my team they're like two graduates and in turn they do a lot of the automation yeah it's that easy now everything's got API so we can connect everything so I do find when we interface with some of the older school teams in different parts of the bank that aren't doing this level of automation they used to manual processes and manual ways of doing things and now we look at everything where everything can be automated that's thing you really truly feel now opened up that you could automate absolutely everything I mean the developer productivity one is key you know state of mind is another I mean the mood is better okay people are in a better mood more productive yeah and I think if you look at interestingly in like security and risk teams and governments teams where we're finding look they can improve security risk and all this by automating you know they're the one set and now we've got SEC offs movements and things like that so speed of production is is does not prohibit better security and in fact with Sec ups the amount of automation we do you got a far greater amount of security because we now know everything that's deployed we can continually scanning for vulnerabilities yeah what so Jason you talked about it being new we've talked a little bit about culture how much of this has been a training exercise how much is that it's a cultural shift within your organization as one of the leaders of it how are you approaching I mean we're lucky there within Macquarie Bank there was a large scale culture shift towards agile where the whole thing runs in that gel manner so that's helped us then feel in our technology and automation it complements that way of delivering so we've got some very unique ways where we've done automation and delivery which completely rethinks how we used to deliver before so example yeah for instance now if you think why were people scared of delivering something into production why was a small change scary change and a big part of it is the blast radius if something went wrong you know connecting through to our API is we've got our own channels we've got mobile apps got a website you've got a lot of partners there are the companies connecting through as well and so even if you did a small change if it costs an issue everyone's affected at once so a big piece of what we did to deliver faster is allowed targeted releases you know I could target a release and a change just to you we could target it to a percentage of customers monitor rolled out quickly if there's a problem dial it up if it's looking good good target to any channel it seems like there's a business benefit to that too oh it's massive here because you also can promise stability on certain channels if you want you can have faster channels that are moving quickly and in an API driven world we've got external companies connecting through to these api's you want to be able to say that we've given you a stable offering and you can upgrade when you want and then our channels we cannot move more fast so we've got mr. no-brainer I mean really the old way is completely dead because of that because you think about the blast radius you're pointing about blast radius the risk is massive so everyone's kind of on edge all these tests have to go in redundancies as if the planning is ridiculous all for the risk well that energy you're optimizing for a potential non-event or event here with micro-services and you and app can go down to the granular level the granularity is really amazing so when you go forward first of all it's a recruiting opportunity to get better engineers wait this is a way we work I'm going forward I want you to comment on your opinion as an industry participant and can clarify this because a lot of you'll get confused here automation they think jobs are going away administration is getting automated system admin type roles where junior people can now do more operating things but the operating roles not going away so talk about that that ops side because now the ops are more efficient the right things are audited me you but talk about that dynamic between the right things being automated and the right things that are gonna roll to operational service meshes or whatnot yeah I mean basically it's about getting people to do these higher-order functions so the people who are doing things manually and operating things manually you look at our Ops teams now morphing into like the classic SRE team you know the side reliability engineering teams where they're spending a significant amount of that time automating things you know looking at alerting and monitoring then Auto healing I mean it's actually more work to automate everything but with a far greater amount of quality and reliability when we go and the benefits are long it's worth it basically you do the work upfront and you reap the benefits and then variety of ways like writing rolling out software managing workloads talk about multi class here on Amazon multi cloud is a big focus to your hybrid cloud multi-cloud obviously we're seeing that trend how do you look at multi cloud as a practitioner what are some of the things that check our check boxes for you in terms of ok as we start looking for the next level there might be a multiple cloud scenario how do you think about that and how do you put that into perspective that's worth noting even two years ago and we selected open shifty it was with the idea that we could go multi-cloud you know that for the users for the developers they're not going to know the difference where we run it on so we're not locked into any provider I mean at the moment we're kind of just exploring Google cloud and we're looking at what it would look like so even we don't know yet some people have spoken about stretching your cluster across to clouds that means one cluster across two seems very difficult to me that a lot of latency issues potentially there's also cloud arbitrage you know can we get certain workloads on a card that's cheaper can we use spot instances can we spin things up and down we're on Google it's cheaper and then it also raises questions around okay do we need Federation and we know Federation has been talked about a lot with kubernetes how do we manage so many clusters and even on AWS now we have three production clusters you had multi clouds how am I gonna manage that what about the services layer of clouds right obviously the Red Hat platform gives you a services layer that could run anywhere but underneath that right AWS has its own services layer Google you know a lot of AI ml you know it could you be able to are you thinking about taking advantage or how are you thinking about those different offerings on different different places I mean this is the challenge I face and what we're exploring is that do some teams have the differentiating services the unique services that they want on Google especially for managing data machine learning we know those services are key for them some teams will have that but yet then can we call them over from AWS even oh do we have to deploy in in Google and have that in one data center can we go across with services so it's really like not just cloud AWS cloud Google but it's actually criss-crossing that's another thing we're exploring Jason thanks for coming on the cube really appreciate your commentary I've seen multiple red hats you guys have won awards you've been here before great job final question for you if you could boil down OpenShift into kind of like a sound byte for you what does it mean to you guys what's been the benefit what's been it it's been that what's been the role what's the benefit of openshift as you explore the cloud journey you know I could say speed I could say automation I mean that's huge but but really OpenShift and read how to pick the winner which is docker and kubernetes and a colleague of mine is in pucon in copenhagen last week he's constantly messaging me saying there's new tooling you guys can use this you can use that and a means that rather than us doing the work we're just getting tooling from the community so it's the de facto standards so that's that's probably the biggest benefit all the goodness is just coming right to your front door likely and I got to do my homework every night playing around with this technology so yeah great success story and again the great community open-source projects out there you guys can bring that in and productize it for the retail bank congratulations love open-source stories like this tier one citizen and again continues to power the world open-source softens the cube doing our part bring and use all the data from Red Hat summit 2018 I'm John fryer with John Tory we'll be back with more after this short break

>> Narrator: Live, from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCube. Covering KubeCon and Cloud Native Con Europe 2018. Brought to you by the Cloud Native Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to theCUBE exclusive coverage of CNCF. The Cloud Native Foundation, Compute Foundation, part of the Linux Foundation of KubeCon 2018 here in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm John Furrier co-host of theCUBE here with analyst this week Lauren Cooney, who is the founder of Spark Labs, brand new start up that she founded to help companies bring innovation to Cloud Native, bring in all of her expertise to companies. Also, here on theCUBE, Lauren, great to have you this week. >> Thanks, John. >> Here in Europe, you've done so much work in the area of open source over the years. You've done, you were radical renegade, progressive, pushing PHP, bringing that to Microsoft. Doing a lot of great things, and now we're in a new modern era, and you're bringing that expertise, but you're also on the front lines of the new wave. >> Lauren: Definitely. >> Cloud Native, so what's your take? What's your analysis? I mean, there's so much going on. You can't just retrofit old school open source, but it's got to build on the next generation. What's your thoughts? >> It has to build on the next generation, but you also have to look back at what has happened in the past. I think what is incredibly important to see is the mistakes that have been made in the past, so that people don't repeat them. One of the things that I'm seeing here and hearing a lot about is multiple distributions of Kubernetes out there, and when I hear multiple distributions I get worried that they're going the open sack route and there is going to be too many distributions out there. I would rather see one or two standard become kind of more standard and people building on top of that. I think it's the right way to go versus the splintering of the community. If the community is going to stay together you're going to have to narrow that down. >> What's the rationale for the distribution? Because, we've seen this before. Certainly at Hadoop, we saw people come out with distros and then abandon them, and then people coalesce around. >> Oh, they'll just die on the vine. I mean, fundamentally they just will die on the vine. It won't be, if it's not de facto already you're probably not going to get it de facto. >> John: What should companies do? Should they have a distro down. >> They should map to one of the key distros right now. They should, basically, use what is out there already. The one that they feel is right, and for their users, and for their company long term. >> I really enjoyed a couple of interviews we had yesterday. I want to just kind of revisit a couple of them. Tyler and Dirk, we had Tyler on from the new programming language ballerina that was launched. He's part of WSO2. Dirk is from Vien, where former early Linux guy, Linux foundation guy, worked with Linux tarballs in the early days. These guys know up the source. So you look at some of those leaders, and they say, "Hey, this is about the people" What are the things that we can draw from the past that are still relevant today? As the new formula of Kubernetes horizontally scalable cloud, Cloud Native thousands and, potentially, millions of micro-services coming online, new kinds of dynamic policy based infrastructure software, everything's coming. >> Service mesh, can't forget service mesh. >> Service meshes are going to be huge. What do we have to keep and preserve, and what is being built out that's new? >> Well, I think that you need to preserve the feeling of the community and what's going on there. I mean, these communities, actually it's communities not community, and these folks are coming along for the wave right? And I think it's important to make sure that people are aware of that, and there's lots of different personalities and lots of different goodness that can be brought to the table with that and the recognition of that. I also think that, for the most part, I do believe that this is one of the strongest communities out there, and it will continue to be for a number of years. >> I want to get your thoughts on something Ed Warnicke said from Cisco because he was very complimentary of the CNCF as are other people, and we have been complimentary as well about keeping everything tight to the core and allowing people to innovate. So you have, and we have commented on theCUBE and other KubeCons about this, and they've been doing it, which is let the innovation foster on the technical side as well as let people flex their business model opportunities. >> Lauren: Definitely. >> Not so much just for the sake of commercialization because if you have too much commercialization you might stunt the community of growth organically so there's a balance, and I think CNCF has done a good job there, but they've kept the core of Kubernetes really tight which has allowed the de facto standard approach to be Kubernetes. That has created great opportunity, and people are super excited by that. What's your analysis of what happens next? What needs to happen? What's the momentum phase two of this? >> I think part of it is, how do you monetize, right? It's looking at, and this is part of what Spark Labs actually does, is we actually work with companies, some that are in the CNCF, and we work on them in different ways to monetize. Is it a services wrapper that's going to work? Is it additional features or functionality? The innovation comes with the technology, but with that technology you have to have the business model kind of in mind when you're building this out so you can figure out how to make money. As these smaller companies especially are looking to do and some of the bigger companies as well. >> I really think it's important for the CNCF and the Linux foundation and I know they're on this so its not critical analysis so much as it is more of an observation. You have a long tail of start ups and kind of a fat tail if you will, that are out there, and you have the big whales out there Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and others at the top. There was a comment in Austin, a snarky comment. I won't say by who, but I was looking at the logo board of the sponsors, and the guy said, "All those start-ups, they might be dead in 18 months" and it made me pause and say okay, that's an observation because they were brand new companies. >> Lauren: Mm hmm. >> That can't happen. We need to have a model of preservation for start-ups to experiment, to grow. This is something you're doing at Spark Labs so what's your view of this? And, reaction to the fact that this has to happen. What can we do as an industry and community to make sure the start ups-- >> I think the Linux foundation is doing one of the best things that can be done out there. Other open source foundations do too. Is they create the infrastructure so that folks have the support for marketing, or legal, or something along those lines, but so companies are allowed to innovate and then the Linux Foundation basically bets on the innovation and they bet on multiple innovations with multiple companies so they allow these companies to thrive while giving them the support inside of that. >> John: Yeah. >> And I think that's really helping a lot of these companies along. >> Well, Dave Collins always says is the membership organization, so no members no business model so I mean they're incented to make sure that, or hope, that these guys can survive, and certainly there's going to be some misfires and people will natural evolution. So what are you most excited about? I got to ask ya, I mean you're out on your own now. Congratulations, you started up. >> Thank you. >> Super exciting for you and I'm happy that you're going to go out on your own. What are some of the things you're excited about? What are you digging your teeth into, in terms of projects? Share what you're doing. >> I'm super excited about these companies that are coming out with true multi-cloud. So, allowing applications to run across multiple environments, public, private, et cetera. And we've been saying we can do it for a decade or something like that, but fundamentally that wasn't the case. You did have to re-write code. You did have to do a lot of underlying things to make that occur. One of the things that I'm super excited about is being able to take those companies and figure out how to actually get their product to market faster. Some of these guys are still in stealth. They need to move really fast if they want to catch up. I also love working with them on figuring out how to build out their teams, figuring out how to monetize. What are the next steps? What are the business plans, really, behind this? What is the one, three, five year model that they're going to use? I also love helping them get the money, of course. I think that's the fun part too. >> Yeah, it's always fun. Start-ups are great. What I'm excited about, I got to tell ya, I got to share with you just some personal feelings. I love this market right now because I've seen many waves of innovation and I think this wave of cloud native, whatever you want to call it this massive wave or sets of waves coming in and you got blockchain and other things going on behind it these centralized applications which I think is part of this set coming in, is that it's bigger than all the other waves combined and because there's so much value creation on the horizon and I think historically, this moment in time, historically is going to be a point we're going to look back and say the Kubernetes de facto standard galvanized a set of industry, a new card of players who are going to establish a new way methodology of doing things, and we're documenting it. Secondly, the role of community, as you pointed out, is so important here, and it's strong, but now we're living in a new age of digital. We're seeing formations of new kinds of community engagement digitally, not just the events, so I'm excited with theCUBE and what we're doing here, and what the Linux Foundation is doing because there's now going to be, potentially, exponential growth and acceleration around the combination of community. >> Yup. >> The community growth with this new modern commercialization on digital. >> It's definitely increasingly important, and you have to look at it from the technologies making it happen. The technology is looking at, edge computing is going to make digital happen really when you look at all the end points and things along those lines. And, I think that it's going to be great for everyone involved in that. >> Yeah, and we can learn a lot from looking at the Facebook example of how fake news swayed the election. How people were weaponizing content for bad things. There's also an opposite effect, we believe that you can do the for good. >> Lauren: Totally agree. >> I think digital will have a big role in the next generation community formations, community growth, short cuts to the truth, really that's what it's all about. It's about the people, so certainly we're going to be documenting it. Thanks for your commentary. >> Lauren: Definitely. >> Appreciate it, great to work with you this week. Day two of exclusive coverage, here at the Linux Foundation's Cloud Native Compute Foundation's, CNCF's KubeCon 2018. This is where Kubernetes, service mesh, Istio a lot of great projects, from a lot of smart people. We're here on the ground covering it live. Day two, we'll be back with more coverage. Stay with us for day two coverage, after this short break. (electronic music)