>> Announcer: Live from Munich, Germany, it's theCUBE, covering DataWorks Summit Europe 2017. Brought to you by HORTONWORKS. (electronic music) (crowd) >> Okay, welcome back everyone, we are here live in Munich, Germany, for DataWorks 2017, formerly Hadoop Summit, the European version. Again, different kind of show than the main show in North America, in San Jose, but it's a great show, a lot of great topics. I'm John Furrier, my co-host, Dave Vellante. Our next guest is John Kreisa, Vice President of International Marketing. Great to see you emceeing the event. Great job, great event! >> John Kreisa: Great. >> Classic European event, its got the European vibe. >> Yep. >> Germany everything's tightly buttoned down, very professional. (laughing) But big IOT message-- >> Yes. >> Because in Germany a lot of industrial action-- >> That's right. >> And then Europe, in general, a lot of smart cities, a lot of mobility, and issues. >> Umm-hmm. >> So a lot of IOT, a lot of meat on the bone here. >> Yep. >> So congratulations! >> John Kreisa: Thank you. >> How's your thoughts? Are you happy with the event? Give us by the numbers, how many people, what's the focus? >> Sure, yeah, no, thanks, John, Dave. Long-time CUBE attendee, I'm really excited to be here. Always great to have you guys here-- >> Thanks. >> Thanks. >> And be participating. This is a great event this year. We did change the name as you mentioned from Hadoop Summit to DataWorks Summit. Perhaps, I'll just riff on that a little bit. I think that really was in response to the change in the community, the breadth of technologies. You mentioned IOT, machine learning, and AI, which we had some of in the keynotes. So just a real expansion of from data loading, data streaming, analytics, and machine learning and artificial intelligence, which all sit on top and use the core Hadoop platform. We felt like it was time to expand the conference itself. Open up the aperture to really bring in the other technologies that were involved, and really represent what was already starting to kind of feed into Hadoop Summit, so it's kind of a natural change, a natural evolution. >> And there's a 2-year visibility. We talk about this two years ago. >> John Kreisa: Yeah, yeah. >> That you are starting to see this aperture open up a little bit. >> Yeah. >> But it's interesting. I want to get your thoughts on this because Dave and I were talking yesterday. It's like we've been to every single Hadoop Summit. Even theCUBE's been following it all as you know. It's interesting the big data space was created by the Hadoop ecosystem. >> Umm-hmm. >> So, yeah, you rode in on the Hadoop horse. >> Yeah. >> I get that. A lot of people don't get them. They say, Oh, Hadoop's dead, but it's not. >> No. >> It's evolving to a much broader scope. >> That's right. >> And you guys saw that two years ago. Comment on your reaction to Hadoop is not dead. >> Yeah, wow (laughing). It's far from dead if you look at the momentum, largest conference ever here in Europe. I think strong interest from them. I think we had a very good customer panel, which talked about the usage, right. How they were really transforming. You had Walgreens Booth's talking about how they're redoing their shelf, shelving, and how they're redesigning their stores. Don Ske-bang talking about how they're analyzing, how they replenish their cash machines. Centrica talking about how they redo their... Or how they're driving down cost of energy by being smarter around energy consumption. So, these are real transformative use cases, and so, it's far from dead. Really what might be confusing people is probably the fact that there are so many other technologies and markets that are being enabled by this open source technologies and the breadth of the platform. And I think that's maybe people see it kind of move a little bit back as a platform play. And so, we talk more about streaming and analytics and machine learning, but all that's enabled by Hadoop. It's all riding on top of this platform. And I think people kind of just misconstrue that the fact that there's one enabling-- >> It's a fundamental element, obviously. >> John Kreisa: Yeah. >> But what's the new expansion? IOT, as I mentioned, is big here. >> Umm-hmm. >> But there's a lot more in connective tissue going on, as Shawn Connelly calls it. >> Yeah, yep. >> What are those other things? >> Yeah, so I think, as you said, smart cities, smart devices, the analytics, getting the value out of the technologies. The ability to load it and capture it in new ways with new open source technology, NyFy and some of those other things, Kafka we've heard of. And some of those technologies are enabling the broader use cases, so I don't think it's... I think it's that's really the fundamental change in shift that we see. It's why we renamed it to DataWorks Summit because it's all about the data, right. That's the thing-- >> But I think... Well, if you think about from a customer perspective, to me anyway, what's happened is we went through the adolescent phase of getting this stuff to work and-- >> Yeah. >> And figuring out, Okay, what's the relationship with my enterprise data warehouse, and then they realize, Wow, the enterprise data warehouse is critical to my big data platform. >> Umm-hmm. >> So what's customers have done as they've evolved, as Hadoop has evolved, their big data platforms internally-- >> Umm-hmm. And now they're turning to to their business saying, Okay, we have this platform. Let's now really start to go up the steep part of the S-curve and get more value out of it. >> John Kreisa: Umm-hmm. >> Do you agree with that scenario? >> I would definitely agree with that. I think that as companies have, and in particularly here in Europe, it's interesting because they kind of waited for the technology to mature and its reached that inflection point. To your point, Dave, such that they're really saying, Alright, let's really get this into production. Let's really drive value out of the data that they see and know they have. And there's sort of... We see a sense of urgency here in Europe, to get going and really start to get that value out. Yeah, and we call it a ratchet game. (laughing) The ratchet is, Okay, you get the technology to work. Okay, you still got to keep the lights on. Okay, and oh, by the way, we need some data governance. Let's ratchet it up that side. Oh, we need a CDO! >> Umm-hmm. >> And so, because if you just try to ratchet up one side of the house (laughing) (cross-talk)-- >> Well, Carlo from HPE said it great on our last segment. >> Yeah. >> And I thought this was fundamental. And this was kind of like you had a CUBE moment where it's like, Wow, that's a really amazing insight. And he said something profound, The data is now foundational to all conversations. >> Right. >> And that's from a business standpoint. It's never always been the case. Now, it's like, Okay, you can look at data as a fundamental foundation building block. >> Right. >> And then react from there. So if you get the data locked in, to Dave's point about compliance, you then can then do clever things. You can have a conversation about a dynamic edge or-- >> Right. >> Something else. So the foundational data is really now fundamental, and I think that is... Changes, it's not a database issue. It's just all data. >> Right, now all data-- >> All databases. >> You're right, it's all data. It's driving the business in all different functions. It's operational efficiency. It's new applications. It's customer intimacy. All of those different ways that all these companies are going, We've got this data. We now have the systems, and we can go ahead and move forward with it. And I think that's the momentum that we're seeing here in Europe, as evidence by the conference and those kinds of things, just I think really shows how maybe... We used to say... I'd say when I first moved over here, that Europe was maybe a year and a half behind the U.S., in terms of adoption. I'd say that's shrunk to where a lot of the conversations are the exact same conversations that we're having with big European companies, that we're having with U.S. companies. >> And, even in... >> Yeah. >> Like we were just talking to Carlo, He was like, Well, and Europe is ahead in things like certain IOT-- >> Yeah. >> And Industrial IOT. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Even IOT analytics. Some of the... Tesla not withstanding some of the automated vehicles. >> John Kreisa: Correct. >> Autonomous vehicles activity that's going on. >> John Kreisa: That's right. >> Certainly with Daimler and others. So there's an advancement. It almost reminds me of the early days of mobile, so... (laughing) >> It's actually, it's a good point. If you look at... Squint through some of the perspectives, it depends on where you are in the room and what your view is. You could argue there are many things that Europe is advanced on and where we're behind. If you look at Amazon Web Services, for instance. >> Umm-hmm. >> They are clearly running as fast as they can to deploy regions. >> Umm-hmm. >> So the scoop's coming out now. I'm hearing buzz that there's another region coming out. >> Right. >> From Amazon soon (laughing). They can't go fast enough. Google is putting out regions again. >> Right. >> Data centers are now pushing global, yet, there's more industrial here than is there. So it's interesting perspective. It depends on how you look at it! >> Yeah, yeah, no, I think it's... And it's perfectly fair to say there are many places where it's more advanced. I think in this technology and open source technologies, in general, are helping drive some of those and enable some of those trends. >> Yeah. >> Because if you have the sensors, you need a place to store and analyze that data whether it's smart cars or smart cities, or energy, smart energy, all those different places. That's really where we are. >> What's different in the international theater that you're involved in because you've been on both sides. >> Yep. >> As you came from the U.S. then when we first met. What's different out here now? And I see the gaps closing? What other things that notable that you could share? >> Yeah, yeah, so I'd say, we still see customers in the U.S. that are still very much wanting to use the shiniest, new thing, like the very latest version of Spark or the very latest version of NyFy or some other technologies. They want to push and use that latest version. In Europe, now the conversations are slightly different, in terms of understanding the security and governance. I think there's a lot more consciousness, if you will, around data here. There's other rules and regulations that are coming into place. And I think they're a little bit more advanced in how they think of-- >> Yeah. >> Data, personal data, how to be treated, and so, consequently, those are where the conversations are about the platform. How do we secure it? How does it get governed? So that you need regulations-- >> John Furrier: It's not as fast, as loose as the U.S. >> Yeah, it's not as fast. And you look and see some of the regulations. (laughing) My wife asked me if we should set up a VPIN on our home WiFi because of this new rule about being able to sell the personal data. I've said, Well, we're not in the U.S., but perhaps, when we move to the U.S. >> In order to get the right to block chain (laughing). (cross-talk) >> Yeah, absolutely (cross-talk). >> John Furrier: Encrypt everything. >> (laughing) Yeah, exactly. >> Well, another topic is... Let's talk about the ecosystem a little bit. >> Umm-hmm. >> You've got now some additional public brethren, obviously Cloudera's, there's been a lot of talk here about-- >> Umm-hmm. Tow-len and Al-trex-is have gone public. >> Yeah. >> The ecosystem you've evolved that. IBM was up on stage with you guys. >> Yeah, yep. >> So that continues to be-- >> Gallium C. >> Can we talk about that a little bit? >> Gallium C >> Gallium C. >> We had a great... Partners are great. We've always been about the ecosystem. We were talking about before we came on-screen that for us it's not Marney Partnership. They're very much of substance, engineering to try to drive value for the customers. It's where we see that value in that joint value. So IBM is working with us across all of the DataWorks Summit, but, even in all of the engineering work that we're doing, participated in HDP 2.6 announcement that we just did. And I'm sure what you covered with Shawn and others, but those partnerships really help drive value for the customer. >> Umm-hmm. For us, it's all making sure the customer is successful. And to make a complete solution, it is a range of products, right. It is whether it's data warehousing, servers, networks, all of the different analytics, right. There's not one product that is the complete solution. It does take a stack, a multitude of technologies, to make somebody successful. >> Cloudera's S-1, was file, what's been part of the conversation, and we've been digging into, it's great to see the numbers. >> Umm-hmm. >> Anything surprise you in the S-1? And advice you'd give to open source companies looking to go public because, as Dave pointed out, there's a string now of comrades in arms, if you will, Mool-saw, that's doing very well. >> Yeah, yeah. >> And Al-trex-is just went public. >> Yeah. >> You guys have been public for a long time. You guys been operating the public open-- >> Yeah. >> Both open source, pure open source. But also on the public markets. You guys have experience. You got some scar tissue. >> John Kreisa: (laughing) Yeah, yeah. >> What's your advice to Cloudera or others that are... Because the risk certainly will be a rush for more public companies. >> Yeah. >> It's a fantastic trend. >> I think it is a fantastic trend. I completely agree. And I think that it shows the strength of the market. It shows both the big data market, in general, the analytics market, kind of all the different components that are represented in some of those IPOs or planned IPOs. I think that for us, we're always driving for success of the customer, and I think any of the open source companies, they have to look at their business plan and take it step-wise in approach, that keeps an eye on making the customer successful because that's ultimately what's going to drive the company success and drive revenue for it and continue to do it. But we welcome as many companies as possible to come into the public market because A: it just allows everybody to operate in an open and honest way, in terms of comparison and understanding how growth is. But B: it's shows that strength of how open source and related technologies can help-- >> Yeah. >> Drive things forward. >> And it's good for the customer, too, because now they can compare-- >> Yes! >> Apples to Apples-- >> Exactly. >> Visa V, Cloudera, and what's interesting is that they had such a head start on you guys, HORTONWORKS, but the numbers are almost identical. >> Umm-hmm, yeah. >> Really close. >> Yeah, I think it's indicative of the opportunity that they're now coming out and there's rumors of other companies coming out. And I think it's just gives that visibility. We welcome it, absolutely-- >> Yeah. >> To show because we're very proud of our performance and now are growth. And I think that's something that we stand behind and stand on top of. And we want to see others come out and show what they got. >> Let's talk about events, if we can? >> Yeah. >> We were there at the first Hadoop Summit in San Jose. Thrilled to be-- >> John Kreisa: In a few years. >> In Dublin last year. >> Yeah. >> So what's the event strategy? I love going into the local flavor. >> Umm-hmm. >> Last year we had the Irish singers. This year we had a great (laughing) locaL band. >> John Kreisa: (laughing) Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So I don't know if you've announced where next year's going to be? Maybe you can share with us some of the roll-out strategies? >> Yeah, so first of all, DataWorks Summit is a great event as you guys know, And you guys are long participants, so it's a great partnership. We've moving them international, of course, we did a couple... We are already international, but moving a couple to Asia last year so-- >> Right. >> Those were a tremendous success, we actually exceeded our targets, in terms of how many people we thought would go. >> Dave: Where did you do those? >> We were in Melburn in Tokyo. >> Dave: That's right, yeah. >> Yeah, so in both places great community, kind of rushed to the event and kind of understanding, really showed that there is truly a global kind of data community around Hadoop and other related technologies. So from here as you guys know because you're going to be there, we're thinking about San Jose and really wanting to make sure that's a great event. It's already stacking up to be tremendous, call for papers is all done. And all that's announced so, even the sessions we're really starting build for that, We'll be later this year. We'll be in Sydney, so we're going to have to take DataWorks into Sydney, Australia, in September. So throughout the rest of this year, there's going to be continued building momentum and just really global participation in this community, which is great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it's fantastic. >> Yeah, Sydney should be great. >> Yeah. >> Looking forward to it. We're going to expand theCUBE down under. Dave and I are are excited-- >> Dave: Yeah, let's talk about that. >> We got a lot of interest (laughing). >> Alright. >> John, great to have you-- >> Come on down. >> On theCUBE again. Great to see you. Congratulations, I'm going to see you up on stage. >> Thank you. >> Doing the emcee. Great show, a lot of great presenters and great customer testimonials. And as always the sessions are packed. And good learning, great community. >> Yeah. >> Congratulations on your ecosystem. This is theCUBE broadcasting live from Munich, Germany for DataWorks 2017, presented by HORTONWORKS and Yahoo. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. Stay with us, great interviews on day two still up. Stay with us. (electronic music)

>> Narrator: Live from Munich, Germany it's the CUBE, covering Dataworks Summit Europe 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Okay, welcome back everyone here at day two coverage of the CUBE here in Munich, Germany for Dataworks 2017. I'm John Furrier, my co-host Dave Vellante. Two days of wall to wall coverage SiliconANGLE Media's the CUBE. Our next guest is Raj Verma, the president and COO of Hortonworks. First time on the CUBE, new to Hortonworks. Welcome to the CUBE. >> Thank you very much, John, appreciate it. >> Looking good with a three piece suit we were commenting when you were on stage. >> Raj: Thank you. >> Great scene here in Europe, again different show vis-a-vis North America, in San Jose. You got the show coming up there, it's the big show. Here, it's a little bit different. A lot of IOT in Germany. You got a lot of car manufacturers, but industrial nation here, smart city initiatives, a lot of big data. >> Uh-huh. >> What's your thoughts? >> Yeah no, firstly thanks for having me here. It's a pleasure and good chit chatting right before the show as well. We are very, very excited about the entire data space. Europe is leading many initiatives about how to use data as a sustainable, competitive differentiator. I just moderated a panel and you guys heard me talk to a retail bank, a retailer. And really, Centrica, which was nothing but British Gas, which is rather an organization steeped in history so as to speak and that institution is now, calls itself a technology company. And, it's a technology company or an IOT company based on them using data as the currency for innovation. So now, British Gas, or Centrica calls itself a data company, when would you have ever thought that? I was at dinner with a very large automotive manufacturers and the kind of stuff they are doing with data right from the driving habits, driver safety, real time insurance premium calculation, the autonomous drive. It's just fascinating no matter what industry you talk about. It's just very, very interesting. And, we are very glad to be here. International business is a big priority for me. >> We've been following Hortonworks since it's inception when it spun out of Yahoo years ago. I think we've been to every Hadoop World going back, except for the first one. We watched the transition. It's interesting, it's always been a learning environment at these shows. And certainly the customer testimonials speaks to the ecosystem, but I have to ask you, you're new to Hortonworks. You have interesting technology background. Why did you join Hortonworks? Because you certainly see the movies before and the cycles of innovation, but now we're living in a pretty epic, machine learning, data AI is on the horizon. What were the reasons why you joined Hortonworks? >> Yeah sure, I've had a really good run in technology, fortunately was associated with two great companies, Parametric Technology and TIBCO Software. I was 16 years at TIBCO, so I've been dealing with data for 16 years. But, over the course of the last couple of years whenever I spoke to a C level executive, or a CIO they were talking to us about the fact that structured data, which is really what we did for 16 years, was not good enough for innovation. Innovation and insights into unstructured data was the seminal challenge of most of the executives that I was talking to, senior level executives. And, when you're talking about unstructured data and making sense of it there isn't a better technology than the one that we are dealing with right now, undoubtedly. So, that was one. Dealing with data because data is really the currency of our times. Every company is a data company. Second was, I've been involved with proprietary software for 23 years. And, if there is a business model that's ready for disruption it's the proprietary software business model because I'm absolutely convinced that open source is what I call a green business model. It's good for planet Earth so as to speak. It's a community based, it's based on innovation and it puts the customer and the technology provider on the same page. The customer success drives the vendor success. Yeah, so the open source community, data-- >> It's sustainables, pun intended, in the sense that it's had a continuing run. And, it's interesting Tier One software is all open source now. >> 100%, and by the way not only that if you see large companies like IBM and Microsoft they have finally woken up to the fact that if they need to attract talent and if they want to be known as talk leaders they have to have some very meaningful open source initiatives. Microsoft loves Linux, when did we ever think that was going to happen, right? And, by the way-- >> I think Steve Bauman once said it was the cancer of the industry. Now, they're behind it. But, this is the Linux foundation has also grown. We saw a project this past week. Intel donated a big project to the Linux now it's taking over, so more projects. >> Raj: Yes. >> There's more action happening than ever before. >> You know absolutely, John. Five years ago when I would go an meet a CIO and I would ask them about open source and they would wink, they say "Of course, "we do open source. But, it's less than 5%, right? Now, when I talk to a CIO they first ask their teams to go evaluated open source as the first choice. And, if they can't they come kicking and screaming towards propriety software. Most organizations, and some organizations with a lot of historical gravity so as to speak have a 50/50 even split between proprietary and open source. And, that's happened in the last three years. And, I can make a bold statement, and I know it'll be true, but in the next three years most organizations the ratio of proprietary to open source would be 20 proprietary 80 open source. >> So, obviously you've made that bet on open source, joining Hortonworks, but open is a spectrum. And, on one end of the spectrum you have Hortonworks which is, as I see it, the purest. Now, even Larry Ellison, when he gets onstage at Oracle Open World will talk about how open Oracle is, I guess that's the other end of the spectrum. So, my question is won't the Microsofts and the Oracles and the IBM, they're like recovering alcoholics and they'll accommodate their platforms through open source, embracing open source. We'll see if AWS is the same, we know it's unidirectional there. How do you see that-- >> Well, not necessarily. >> Industry dynamic, we'll talk about that later. How do you see that industry dynamic shaking out? >> No, absolutely, I think I remember way back in I think the mid to late 90s I still loved that quote by Scott McNeely, who is a friend, Dell, not Dell, Digital came out with a marketing campaign saying open VMS. And, Scott said, "How can someone lie "so much with one word?" (laughs) So, it's the fact that Oracle calling itself open, well I'll just leave it at, it's a good joke. I think the definition of open source, to me, is when you acquire a software you have three real costs. One is the cost of initial procuring that software and the hardware and all the rest of it. The second is implementation and maintenance. However, most people miss the third dimension of cost when acquiring software, which is the cost to exit the technology. Our software and open source has very low exit barriers to our technology. If you don't like our technology, switch it off. You own the software anyways. Switch off our services and the barrier of exits are very, very low. Having worked in proprietary software, as I said, for 23 years I very often had conversations with my customers where I would say, "Look, you really "don't have a choice, because if you want to exit "our technology it's going to probably cost you "ten times more than what you've spent till date." So, it a lock in architecture and then you milk that customer through maintenance, correct? >> Switching costs really are the metric-- >> Raj: Switching costs, exactly. >> You gave the example of Blockbuster Camera, and the rental, the late charge fees. Okay, that's an example of lock in. So, as we look at the company you're most compared with, now that's it's going public, Cloudera, in a way I see more similarities than differences. I mean, you guys are sort of both birds of a feather. But, you are going for what I call the long game with a volume subscription model. And, Cloudera has chosen to build proprietary components on top. So, you have to make big bets on open. You have to support those open technologies. How do you see that affecting the long term distance model? >> Yeah, I think we are committed to open source. There's absolutely no doubt about it. I do feel that we are connected data platform, which is data at rest and data in motion across on prem and cloud is the business model the going to win. We clearly have momentum on our side. You've seen the same filings that I have seen. You're talking about a company that had a three year head start on us, and a billion dollars of funding, all right, at very high valuations. And yet, they're only one year ahead in terms of revenue. And, they have burnt probably three times more cash than we have. So clearly, and it's not my opinion, if you look at the numbers purely, the numbers actually give us the credibility that our business model and what we are doing is more efficient and is working better. One of the arguments that I often hear from analysts and press is how are your margins on open source? According to the filings, again, their margins are 82% on proprietary software, my margins on open source are 84%. So, from a health of the business perspective we are better. Now, the other is they've claimed to have been making a pivot to more machine learning and deep learning and all the rest of it. And, they actually'd like us to believe that their competition is going to be Amazon, IBM, and Google. Now, with a billion dollars of funding with the Intel ecosystem behind them they could effectively compete again Hortonworks. What do you think are their chances of competing against Google, Amazon, and IBM? I just leave that for you guys to decide, to be honest with you. And, we feel very good that they have virtually vacated the space and we've got the momentum. >> On the numbers, what jumps out at you on filing since obviously, I sure, everyone at Hortonworks was digging through the S1 because for the first time now Cloudera exposes some of the numbers. I noticed some striking things different, obviously, besides their multiple on revenue valuation. Pretty obvious it's going to be a haircut coming after the public offering. But, on the sales side, which is your wheelhouse there's a value proposition that you guys at Hortonworks, we've been watching, the cadence of getting new clients, servicing clients. With product evolution is challenging enough, but also expensive. It's not you guys, but it's getting better as Sean Connolly pointed out yesterday, you guys are looking at some profitability targets on the Ee-ba-dep coming up in Q four. Publicly stated on the earnings call. How's that different from Cloudera? Are they burning more cash because of their sales motions or sales costs, or is it the product mix? What's you thoughts on the filings around Cloudera versus the Hortonworks? >> Well, look I just feel that, I can talk more about my business than theirs. Clearly, you've seen the same filings that I have and you've see the same cash burn rates that we have seen. And, we clearly are ore efficient, although we can still get better. But, because of being public for a little more than two years now we've had a thousand watt bulb being shown at us and we have been forced to be more efficient because we were in the limelight. >> John: You're open. >> In the open, right? So, people knew what our figures are, what our efficiency ratios were. So, we've been working diligently at improving them and we've gotten better, and there's still scope for improvement. However, being private did not have the same scrutiny on Cloudera. And, some would say that they were actually spending money like drunken sailors if you really read their S1 filing. So, they will come under a lot of scrutiny as well. I'm sure they'll get more efficient. But right now, clearly, you've seen the same numbers that I have, their numbers don't talk about efficiency either in the R and D side or the sales and marketing side. So, yeah we feel very good about where we are in that space. >> And, open source is this two edged sword. Like, take Yarn for example, at least from my perspective Hortonworks really led the charge to Yarn and then well before Doctor and Kubernetes ascendancy and then all of a sudden that happens and of course you've got to embrace those open source trends. So, you have the unique challenge of having to support sort of all the open source platforms. And, so that's why I call it the long game. In order for you guys to thrive you've got to both put resources into those multiple projects and you've got to get the volume of your subscription model, which you pointed out the marginal economics are just as good as most, if not any software business. So, how do you manage that resource allocation? Yes, so I think a lot of that is the fact that we've got plenty of contributors and committers to the open source community. We are seen as the angel child in open source because we are just pure, kosher open source. We just don't have a single line of proprietary code. So, we are committed to that community. We have over the last six or seven years developed models of our software development which helps us manage the collective bargaining power, so as to speak, of the community to allocate resources and prioritize the allocation of resources. It continues to be a challenge given the breadth of the open source community and what we have to handle, but fortunately I'm blessed that we've got a very, very capable engineering organization that keeps us very efficient and on the cutting edge. >> We're here with Raj Verma, With the new president and COO of Hortonworks, Chief Operating Officer. I've got to ask you because it's interesting. You're coming in with a fresh set of eyes, coming in as you mentioned, from TIBCO, interesting, which was very successful in the generation of it's time and history of TIBCO where it came from and what it did was pretty fantastic. I mean, everyone knows connecting data together was very hard in the enterprise world. TIBCO has some challenges today, as you're seeing, with being disrupted by open source, but I got to ask you. As a perspective, new executive you got, looking at the battlefield, an opportunity with open source there's some significant things happening and what are you excited about because Hortonworks has actually done some interesting things. Some, I would say, the world spun in their direction, their relationship with Microsoft, for instance, and their growth in cloud has been fantastic. I mean, Microsoft stock price when they first started working with Hortonworks I think was like 26, and obviously with Scott Di-na-tell-a on board Azure, more open source, on Open Compute to Kubernetes and Micro Services, Azure doing very, very well. You also have a partnership with Amazon Web Services so you already are living in this cloud era, okay? And so, you have a cloud dynamic going on. Are you excited by that? You bring some partnership expertise in from TIBCO. How do you look at partners? Because, you guys don't really compete with anybody, but you're partners with everybody. So, you're kind of like Switzerland, but you're also doing a lot of partnerships. What are you excited about vis-a-vis the cloud and some of the other partnerships that are happening. >> Yeah, absolutely, I think having a robust partner ecosystem is probably my number one priority, maybe number two after being profitable in a short span of time, which is, again, publicly stated. Now, our partnership with Microsoft is very, very special to us. Being available in Azure we are seeing some fantastic growth rates coming in from Azure. We are also seeing remarkable amount of traction from the market to be able to go and test out our platform with very, very low barriers of entry and, of course, almost zero barriers of exit. So, from a partnership platform cloud providers like Amazon, Microsoft, are very, very important to us. We are also getting a lot of interest from carriers in Europe, for example. Some of the biggest carriers want to offer business services around big data and almost 100%, actually not almost, 100% of the carriers that we have spoken to thus far want to partner with us and offer our platform as a cloud service. So, cloud for us is a big initiative. It gives us the entire capability to reach audiences that we might not be able to reach ringing one door bell at a time. So, it's, as I said, we've got a very robust, integrated cloud strategy. Our customers find that very, very interesting. And, building that with a very robust partner channel, high priority for us. Second, is using our platform as a development platform for application on big data is, again, a priority. And that's, again, building a partner ecosystem. The third is relationships with global SIs, Extensia, Deloitte, KPMG. The Indian SIs of In-flu-ces, and Rip-ro, and HCL and the rest. We have some work to do. We've done some good work there, but there's some work to be done there. And, not only that I think some of the initiatives that we are launching in terms of training as a service, free certification, they are all things which are aimed at reaching out to the partners and building, as I said, a robust partner ecosystem. >> There's a lot of talk a conferences like this about, especially in Hadoop, about complexity, complexity of the ecosystem, new projects, and the difficulties of understanding that. But, in reality it seems as though today anyway the technology's pretty well understood. We talked about Millennials off camera coming out today with social savvy and tooling and understanding gaming and things like that. Technology, getting it to work seems to not be the challenge anymore. It's really understanding how to apply it, how to value data, we heard in your panel today. The business process, which used to be very well known, it's counting, it's payroll, simple. Now, it's kind of ever changing daily. What do you make of that? How do you think that will effect the future of work? Yeah, I think there's some very interesting questions that you've asked in that the first, of course, is what does it take to have a very successful big data, or Hadoop project. And, I think we always talk about the fact that if you have a very robust business case backing a Hadoop project that is the number one key ingredient to delivering a Hadoop project. Otherwise, you can tend to boil the ocean, all right, or try and eat an elephant in one bite as I like to say. So, that's one and I think you're right. It's not the technology, it's not the complexity, it's not the availability of the resources. It is a leadership issue in organizations where the leader demands certain outcomes, business outcomes from the Hadoop project team and we've seen whenever that happens the projects seem to be very, very successful. Now, the second part of the question about future of work, which is a very, very interesting topic and a topic which is very, very close to my heart. There are going to be more people than jobs in the next 20, 25 years. I think that any job that can be automated will be automated, or has been automated, right? So, this is going to have a societal impact on how we live. I've been lucky enough that I joined this industry 25 years ago and I've never had to change or switch industries. But, I can assure you that our kids, and we were talking about kids off camera as well, our kids will have to probably learn a new skill every five years. So, how does that impact education? We, in our generation, were testing champions. We were educated to score well on tests. But, the new form of education, which you and I were talking about, again in California where we live, and where my daughter goes to high school and in her school the number one, the number one priority is to instill a sense of learning and joy of learning in students because that is what is going to contribute to a robust future. >> That's a good point, I want to just interject here because I think that the trend we're seeing in the higher Ed side too also point to the impact of data science, to curriculum and learning. It's not just putting catalogs online. There's now kind of an iterative kind of non-linear discovery to proficiency. But, there's also the emotional quotient aspect. You mentioned the love of learning. The immersion of tech and digital is creating an interdisciplinary requirement. So, all the folks say that, what the statistic's like half the jobs that are going to be available haven't even been figured out yet. There's a value creation around interdisciplinary skill sets and emotional quotient. >> Absolutely. >> Social, emotional because of the human social community connectedness. This is also a big data challenge opportunity. >> Oh, 100% and I think one of the things that we believe is in the future, jobs that require a greater amount of empathy are least susceptible to automation. So, things like caring for old age people in the world, and nursing, and teaching, and artists, and all the rest will be professions which will be highly paid and numerous. I also believe that the entire big data challenge about how you use data to impact communities is going to come into play. And also, I think John, you and I were again talking about it, the entire concept of corporations is only 200 years old, really, 200, 300 years old. Before that, our forefathers were individual contributors who contributed a certain part in a community, barbers, tailors, farmers, what have you. We are going to go back to the future where all of us will go back to being individual contributors. And, I think, and again I'm bringing it back to open source, open source is the start of that community which will allow the community to go back to its roots of being individual contributors rather than being part of a organization or a corporation to be successful and to contribute. >> Yeah, the Coase's Penguin has been a very famous seminal piece of work. Obviously, Ronald Coase who's wrote the book The Nature of the Firm is interesting, but that's been a kind of historical document. You look at blockchain for instance. Blockchain actually has the opportunity to disrupt what the Nature of the Firm is about because of smart contracts, supply chain, and what not. And, we have this debate on the CUBE all the time, there's some naysayers, Tim Conner's a VC and I were talking on our Friday show, Silicon Valley Friday show. He's actually a naysayer on blockchain. I'm actually pro blockchain because I think there's some skeptics that say blockchain is really hard to because it requires an ecosystem. However, we're living in an ecosystem, a world of community. So, I think The Nature of the Firm will be disrupted by people organizing in a new way vis-a-vis blockchain 'cause that's an open source paradigm. >> Yeah, no I concur. So, I'm a believer in that entire concept. I 100%-- >> I want to come back to something you talked about, about individual contributors and the relationship in link to open source and collaboration. I personally, I think we have to have a frank conversation about, I mean machines have always replaced humans, but for the first time in our history it's replacing cognitive functions. To your point about empathy, what are the things that humans can do that machines can't? And, they become fewer and fewer every year. And, a lot of these conferences people don't like to talk about that, but it's a reality that we have to talk about. And, your point is right on, we're going back to individual contribution, open source collaboration. The other point is data, is it going to be at the center of that innovation because it seems like value creation and maybe job creation, in the future, is going to be a result of the combinatorial effects of data, open source, collaboration, other. It's not going to because of Moore's Law, all right. >> 100%, and I think one of the aspects that we didn't touch upon is the new societal model that automation is going to create would need data driven governance. So, a data driven government is going to be a necessity because, remember, in those times, and I think in 25, 30 years countries will have to explore the impact of negative taxation, right? Because of all the automation that actually happens around citizen security, about citizen welfare, about cost of healthcare, cost of providing healthcare. All of that is going to be fueled by data, right? So, it's just, as the Chinese proverb says, "May you live in interesting times." We definitely are living in very interesting times. >> And, the public policy implications are, your friend and one of my business heroes, Scott McNeally says, "There's no privacy in "the internet, get over it." We interviewed John Tapscott last week he said "That's unacceptable, "we have to solve that problem." So, it brings up a lot of public policy issues. >> Well, the social economic impact, right now there's a trend we're seeing where the younger generation, we're talking about the post 9/11 generation that's entering the workforce, they have a social conscience, right? So, there's an emphasis you're seeing on social good. AI for social good is one of the hottest trends out there. But, the changing landscape around data is interesting. So, the word democratization has been used whether you're looking at the early days of blogging and podcasting which we were involved in and research to now in media this notion of data and transparency and open source is probably at a tipping point, an all time high in terms of value creation. So, I want to hear your thoughts on this because as someone who's been in the proprietary world the mode of operation was get something proprietary, lock it dowm, build a fence and a wall, protect it with folks with machine guns and fight for the competitive advantage, right? Now, the competitive advantage is open. Okay, so you're looking at pure open source model with Hortonworks. It changes how companies are competing. What is the competitive advantage of Hortonworks? Actually, to be more open. >> 100%. >> How do you manage that? >> No absolutely, I just think the proprietary nature of software, like software has disrupted a lot of businesses, all right? And, it's not a resistance to disruption itself. I mean, there has never been a business model in the history of time where you charge a lot of money to build a software, or sell a software that you built and then whatever are the defects in that software you get paid more money to fix them, all right? That's the entire perpetual and maintenance model. That model is going to get disrupted. Now, there are hundreds of billions of dollars involved in it so people are going to come kicking and screaming to the open source world, but they will have to come to the open source world. Our advantage that we're seeing is innovation now in a closed loop environment, no matter what size of a company you are, cannot keep up with the changing landscape around you from a data perspective. So, without the collective innovation of the community I don't really think a technology can stay at par with the changes around them. >> This is what I say about, this is what I think is such an important point that you're getting at because we were started SiliconANGLE actually in the Cloudera office, so we have a lot of friends that work there. We have a great admiration for them, but one of the things that Cloudera has done through their execution is they have been very profit oriented, go public at all costs kind of thing that they're doing now. You've seen that happen. Is the competitive advantage that you're pointing out is something we're seeing that similar that Andy Jasseys doing at AWS, which is it's not so much to build something proprietary per se, it's just to ship something faster. So, if you look at Amazon's competitive advantage is that they just continue to ship product faster and faster and faster than companies can build themselves. And also, the scale that they're getting with these economies is increasing the quality. So, open source has also hit the naysayers on security, right? Everyone said, "Oh, open source is not secure." As it turns out, it's more secure. Amazon at scale is actually becoming more secure. So, you're starting to see the new competitive advantage be ship more, be more open as the way to do business. What do you think the impact will be to traditional companies whether it's a startup competing or an existing bank? This is a paradigm shift, what's the impact going to be for a CIO or CEO of a big company? How do they incorporate that competitive advantage? Yeah, I think the proprietary software world is not going to go away tomorrow, John, you know that. There so much of installed software and there's a saying from where I come from that "Even a dead elephant is worth a million dollars," right? So, even that business model even though it is sort of dying it'll still be a good investment for the next ten years because of the locked in business model where customers cannot get out. Now, from a perspective of openness and what that brings as a competitive differentiators to our customer just the very base at which, as I've said I've lived in a proprietary world, you would be lucky if you were getting the next version of our software every 18 months, you'd be lucky. In the open source community you get a few versions in 18 months. So, the cadence at which releases come out have just completely disrupted the proprietary model. It is just the collective, as I said, innovative or innovation ability of the community has allowed us to release, to increase the release cadence to a few months now, all right? And, if our engineering team had it's way it'll further be cut short, right? So, the ability of customers, and what does that allow the customer to do? Ten years ago if you looked for a capability from your proprietary vendor they would say you have to wait 18 months. So, what do you do, you build it yourself, all right? So, that is what the spaghetti architecture was all about. In the new open source model you ask the community and if enough people in the community think that that's important the community builds it for you and gives it to you. >> And, the good news is the business model of open source is working. So, you got you guys have been public, you got Cloudera going public, you have MuleSoft out there, a lot of companies out there now that are public companies are open source companies, a phenomenal change over. But, the other thing that's interesting is that the hiring factor for the large enterprise to the point of, your point about so proprietary not updating, it's the same is true for the enterprise. So, just hiring candidates out of open source is now increased, the talent pool for a large enterprise. >> 100%, 100%. >> Well, I wonder if I could challenge this love fest for a minute. (laughs) So, there's another saying, I didn't grow up there, but a dying snake can still bite you. So, I bring that up because there is this hybrid model that's emerging because these elephants eventually they figure it out. And so, an example would be, we talked about Cloudera and so forth, but the better example, I think, is IBM. What IBM has done to embrace open source with investing years ago a billion dollars into Linux, what it's doing with Spark, essentially trying to elbow its way in and say, "Okay, "now we're going to co-opt the ecosystem. "And then, build our proprietary pieces on top of it." That, to me, that's a viable business model, is it not? >> Yes, I'm sure it is and to John's point with the Mule going IPO and with Cloudera having successfully built a $250 million, $261 million business is testimony, yeah, it's a testimony to the fact that companies can be built. Now, can they be more efficient, sure they can be more efficient. However, my entire comment on this is why are you doing open source? What is your intent of doing open source, to be seen as open, or to be truly open? Because, in our philosophy if you a add a slim layer of proprietariness, why are you doing that? And, as a businessman I'll tell you why you increase the stickiness factor by locking in your customer, right? So, let's not, again, we're having a frank conversation, proprietary code equals customer lock in, period. >> Agreed. And, as a business model-- >> I'm not sure I agree with that. >> As a business model. >> Please. (laughs) We'll come back to that. >> So, it's a customer lock in. Now, as a business model it is, if you were to go with the business models of the past, yes I believe most of the analysts will say it a stickier, better business model, but then we would like to prove them wrong. And, that's our mission as open source purely. >> I would caution though, Amazon's the mother of all lock in's. You kind of bristled at that before. >> They're not, I mean they use a lot of open source. I mean, did they open source it? Getting back to the lock in, the lock in is a function of stickiness, right? So, stickiness can be open source. Now, you could argue that Horonworks through they're relationship with partnering is a lock in spec with their stickiness of being open. Right, so I come back down to the proprietary-- >> Dave: My search engine I like Google. >> I mean Google's certainly got-- >> It's got to be locked in 'cause I like it? >> Well, there's a lot of do you care with proprietary technology that Google's built. >> Switching costs, as we talked about before. >> But, you're not paying for Si-tch >> If the value exceeds the price of the lock in then it's an opportunity. So, Palma Richie's talking about the hardened top, the hardened top. Do you care what's in an Intel processor? Well, Intel is a proprietary platform that provides processing power, but it enables a lot of other value. So, I think the stickiness factor of say IBM is interesting and they've done a lot open source stuff to defend them on Linux, for example they do a (mumbles) blockchain. But, they're priming the pump for their own business, that's clear for their lock In. >> Raj wasn't saying there's not value there. He's saying it's lock in, and it is. >> Well, some customers will pay for convenience. >> Your point is if the value exceeds the lock in risk than it's worth it. >> Yeah, that's my point, yeah. >> 1005, 100%. >> And, that's where the opportunity is. So, you can use open source to get to a value projectory. That's the barriers to entry, we seen 'em on the entrepreneurship side, right? It's easier to start a company now than ever before. Why? Because of open source and cloud, right? So, does that mean that every startup's going to be super successful and beat IBM? No, not really. >> Do you thinK there will be a red hat of big data and will you be it? >> We hope so. (laughs) If I had my that's definitely. That's really why I am here. >> Just an example, right? >> And, the one thing that excites us about this this year is as my former boss used to say you could be as good as you think you are or the best in the world but if you're in the landline business right now you're not going to have a very bright future. However, the business that we are in we pull from the market that we get, and you're seeing here, right? And, these are days that we have very often where customer pool is remarkable. I mean, this industry is growing at, depending on which analyst you're talking to somewhere between 50 to 80% ear on ear. All right, every customer is a prospect for us. There isn't a single conversation that we have with any organization almost of any size where they don't think that they can use their data better, or they can enhance and improve their data strategy. So, if that is in place and I am confident about our execution, very, very happy with the technology platform, the support that we get from out customers. So, all things seem to be lining up. >> Raj, thanks so much for coming on, we appreciate your time. We went a little bit over, I think, the allotted time, but wanted to get your insight as the new President and Chief Operating Officer for Hortonworks. Congratulations on the new role, and looking forward to seeing the results. Since you're a public company we'll be actually able to see the scoreboard. >> Raj: Yes. >> Congratulations, and thanks for coming on the CUBE. There's more coverage here live at Dataworks 2017. I John Furrier, stay with us more great interviews, day two coverage. We'll be right back. (jaunty music)