>> From theCUBE studios in Palo Alto and Boston, bringing you data-driven insights from theCUBE and ETR. This is braking analysis with Dave Vellante. >> A new era of data is upon us, and we're in a state of transition. You know, even our language reflects that. We rarely use the phrase big data anymore, rather we talk about digital transformation or digital business, or data-driven companies. Many have come to the realization that data is a not the new oil, because unlike oil, the same data can be used over and over for different purposes. We still use terms like data as an asset. However, that same narrative, when it's put forth by the vendor and practitioner communities, includes further discussions about democratizing and sharing data. Let me ask you this, when was the last time you wanted to share your financial assets with your coworkers or your partners or your customers? Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's Wikibon Cube Insights powered by ETR. In this breaking analysis, we want to share our assessment of the state of the data business. We'll do so by looking at the data mesh concept and how a leading financial institution, JP Morgan Chase is practically applying these relatively new ideas to transform its data architecture. Let's start by looking at what is the data mesh. As we've previously reported many times, data mesh is a concept and set of principles that was introduced in 2018 by Zhamak Deghani who's director of technology at ThoughtWorks, it's a global consultancy and software development company. And she created this movement because her clients, who were some of the leading firms in the world had invested heavily in predominantly monolithic data architectures that had failed to deliver desired outcomes in ROI. So her work went deep into trying to understand that problem. And her main conclusion that came out of this effort was the world of data is distributed and shoving all the data into a single monolithic architecture is an approach that fundamentally limits agility and scale. Now a profound concept of data mesh is the idea that data architectures should be organized around business lines with domain context. That the highly technical and hyper specialized roles of a centralized cross functional team are a key blocker to achieving our data aspirations. This is the first of four high level principles of data mesh. So first again, that the business domain should own the data end-to-end, rather than have it go through a centralized big data technical team. Second, a self-service platform is fundamental to a successful architectural approach where data is discoverable and shareable across an organization and an ecosystem. Third, product thinking is central to the idea of data mesh. In other words, data products will power the next era of data success. And fourth data products must be built with governance and compliance that is automated and federated. Now there's lot more to this concept and there are tons of resources on the web to learn more, including an entire community that is formed around data mesh. But this should give you a basic idea. Now, the other point is that, in observing Zhamak Deghani's work, she is deliberately avoided discussions around specific tooling, which I think has frustrated some folks because we all like to have references that tie to products and tools and companies. So this has been a two-edged sword in that, on the one hand it's good, because data mesh is designed to be tool agnostic and technology agnostic. On the other hand, it's led some folks to take liberties with the term data mesh and claim mission accomplished when their solution, you know, maybe more marketing than reality. So let's look at JP Morgan Chase in their data mesh journey. Is why I got really excited when I saw this past week, a team from JPMC held a meet up to discuss what they called, data lake strategy via data mesh architecture. I saw that title, I thought, well, that's a weird title. And I wondered, are they just taking their legacy data lakes and claiming they're now transformed into a data mesh? But in listening to the presentation, which was over an hour long, the answer is a definitive no, not at all in my opinion. A gentleman named Scott Hollerman organized the session that comprised these three speakers here, James Reid, who's a divisional CIO at JPMC, Arup Nanda who is a technologist and architect and Serita Bakst who is an information architect, again, all from JPMC. This was the most detailed and practical discussion that I've seen to date about implementing a data mesh. And this is JP Morgan's their approach, and we know they're extremely savvy and technically sound. And they've invested, it has to be billions in the past decade on data architecture across their massive company. And rather than dwell on the downsides of their big data past, I was really pleased to see how they're evolving their approach and embracing new thinking around data mesh. So today, we're going to share some of the slides that they use and comment on how it dovetails into the concept of data mesh that Zhamak Deghani has been promoting, and at least as we understand it. And dig a bit into some of the tooling that is being used by JP Morgan, particularly around it's AWS cloud. So the first point is it's all about business value, JPMC, they're in the money business, and in that world, business value is everything. So Jr Reid, the CIO showed this slide and talked about their overall goals, which centered on a cloud first strategy to modernize the JPMC platform. I think it's simple and sensible, but there's three factors on which he focused, cut costs always short, you got to do that. Number two was about unlocking new opportunities, or accelerating time to value. But I was really happy to see number three, data reuse. That's a fundamental value ingredient in the slide that he's presenting here. And his commentary was all about aligning with the domains and maximizing data reuse, i.e. data is not like oil and making sure there's appropriate governance around that. Now don't get caught up in the term data lake, I think it's just how JP Morgan communicates internally. It's invested in the data lake concept, so they use water analogies. They use things like data puddles, for example, which are single project data marts or data ponds, which comprise multiple data puddles. And these can feed in to data lakes. And as we'll see, JPMC doesn't strive to have a single version of the truth from a data standpoint that resides in a monolithic data lake, rather it enables the business lines to create and own their own data lakes that comprise fit for purpose data products. And they do have a single truth of metadata. Okay, we'll get to that. But generally speaking, each of the domains will own end-to-end their own data and be responsible for those data products, we'll talk about that more. Now the genesis of this was sort of a cloud first platform, JPMC is leaning into public cloud, which is ironic since the early days, in the early days of cloud, all the financial institutions were like never. Anyway, JPMC is going hard after it, they're adopting agile methods and microservices architectures, and it sees cloud as a fundamental enabler, but it recognizes that on-prem data must be part of the data mesh equation. Here's a slide that starts to get into some of that generic tooling, and then we'll go deeper. And I want to make a couple of points here that tie back to Zhamak Deghani's original concept. The first is that unlike many data architectures, this puts data as products right in the fat middle of the chart. The data products live in the business domains and are at the heart of the architecture. The databases, the Hadoop clusters, the files and APIs on the left-hand side, they serve the data product builders. The specialized roles on the right hand side, the DBA's, the data engineers, the data scientists, the data analysts, we could have put in quality engineers, et cetera, they serve the data products. Because the data products are owned by the business, they inherently have the context that is the middle of this diagram. And you can see at the bottom of the slide, the key principles include domain thinking, an end-to-end ownership of the data products. They build it, they own it, they run it, they manage it. At the same time, the goal is to democratize data with a self-service as a platform. One of the biggest points of contention of data mesh is governance. And as Serita Bakst said on the Meetup, metadata is your friend, and she kind of made a joke, she said, "This sounds kind of geeky, but it's important to have a metadata catalog to understand where data resides and the data lineage in overall change management. So to me, this really past the data mesh stink test pretty well. Let's look at data as products. CIO Reid said the most difficult thing for JPMC was getting their heads around data product, and they spent a lot of time getting this concept to work. Here's the slide they use to describe their data products as it related to their specific industry. They set a common language and taxonomy is very important, and you can imagine how difficult that was. He said, for example, it took a lot of discussion and debate to define what a transaction was. But you can see at a high level, these three product groups around wholesale, credit risk, party, and trade and position data as products, and each of these can have sub products, like, party, we'll have to know your customer, KYC for example. So a key for JPMC was to start at a high level and iterate to get more granular over time. So lots of decisions had to be made around who owns the products and the sub-products. The product owners interestingly had to defend why that product should even exist, what boundaries should be in place and what data sets do and don't belong in the various products. And this was a collaborative discussion, I'm sure there was contention around that between the lines of business. And which sub products should be part of these circles? They didn't say this, but tying it back to data mesh, each of these products, whether in a data lake or a data hub or a data pond or data warehouse, data puddle, each of these is a node in the global data mesh that is discoverable and governed. And supporting this notion, Serita said that, "This should not be infrastructure-bound, logically, any of these data products, whether on-prem or in the cloud can connect via the data mesh." So again, I felt like this really stayed true to the data mesh concept. Well, let's look at some of the key technical considerations that JPM discussed in quite some detail. This chart here shows a diagram of how JP Morgan thinks about the problem, and some of the challenges they had to consider were how to write to various data stores, can you and how can you move data from one data store to another? How can data be transformed? Where's the data located? Can the data be trusted? How can it be easily accessed? Who has the right to access that data? These are all problems that technology can help solve. And to address these issues, Arup Nanda explained that the heart of this slide is the data in ingestor instead of ETL. All data producers and contributors, they send their data to the ingestor and the ingestor then registers the data so it's in the data catalog. It does a data quality check and it tracks the lineage. Then, data is sent to the router, which persists the data in the data store based on the best destination as informed by the registration. This is designed to be a flexible system. In other words, the data store for a data product is not fixed, it's determined at the point of inventory, and that allows changes to be easily made in one place. The router simply reads that optimal location and sends it to the appropriate data store. Nowadays you see the schema infer there is used when there is no clear schema on right. In this case, the data product is not allowed to be consumed until the schema is inferred, and then the data goes into a raw area, and the inferer determines the schema and then updates the inventory system so that the data can be routed to the proper location and properly tracked. So that's some of the detail of how the sausage factory works in this particular use case, it was very interesting and informative. Now let's take a look at the specific implementation on AWS and dig into some of the tooling. As described in some detail by Arup Nanda, this diagram shows the reference architecture used by this group within JP Morgan, and it shows all the various AWS services and components that support their data mesh approach. So start with the authorization block right there underneath Kinesis. The lake formation is the single point of entitlement and has a number of buckets including, you can see there the raw area that we just talked about, a trusted bucket, a refined bucket, et cetera. Depending on the data characteristics at the data catalog registration block where you see the glue catalog, that determines in which bucket the router puts the data. And you can see the many AWS services in use here, identity, the EMR, the elastic MapReduce cluster from the legacy Hadoop work done over the years, the Redshift Spectrum and Athena, JPMC uses Athena for single threaded workloads and Redshift Spectrum for nested types so they can be queried independent of each other. Now remember very importantly, in this use case, there is not a single lake formation, rather than multiple lines of business will be authorized to create their own lakes, and that creates a challenge. So how can that be done in a flexible and automated manner? And that's where the data mesh comes into play. So JPMC came up with this federated lake formation accounts idea, and each line of business can create as many data producer or consumer accounts as they desire and roll them up into their master line of business lake formation account. And they cross-connect these data products in a federated model. And these all roll up into a master glue catalog so that any authorized user can find out where a specific data element is located. So this is like a super set catalog that comprises multiple sources and syncs up across the data mesh. So again to me, this was a very well thought out and practical application of database. Yes, it includes some notion of centralized management, but much of that responsibility has been passed down to the lines of business. It does roll up to a master catalog, but that's a metadata management effort that seems compulsory to ensure federated and automated governance. As well at JPMC, the office of the chief data officer is responsible for ensuring governance and compliance throughout the federation. All right, so let's take a look at some of the suspects in this world of data mesh and bring in the ETR data. Now, of course, ETR doesn't have a data mesh category, there's no such thing as that data mesh vendor, you build a data mesh, you don't buy it. So, what we did is we use the ETR dataset to select and filter on some of the culprits that we thought might contribute to the data mesh to see how they're performing. This chart depicts a popular view that we often like to share. It's a two dimensional graphic with net score or spending momentum on the vertical axis and market share or pervasiveness in the data set on the horizontal axis. And we filtered the data on sectors such as analytics, data warehouse, and the adjacencies to things that might fit into data mesh. And we think that these pretty well reflect participation that data mesh is certainly not all compassing. And it's a subset obviously, of all the vendors who could play in the space. Let's make a few observations. Now as is often the case, Azure and AWS, they're almost literally off the charts with very high spending velocity and large presence in the market. Oracle you can see also stands out because much of the world's data lives inside of Oracle databases. It doesn't have the spending momentum or growth, but the company remains prominent. And you can see Google Cloud doesn't have nearly the presence in the dataset, but it's momentum is highly elevated. Remember that red dotted line there, that 40% line, anything over that indicates elevated spending momentum. Let's go to Snowflake. Snowflake is consistently shown to be the gold standard in net score in the ETR dataset. It continues to maintain highly elevated spending velocity in the data. And in many ways, Snowflake with its data marketplace and its data cloud vision and data sharing approach, fit nicely into the data mesh concept. Now, a caution, Snowflake has used the term data mesh in it's marketing, but in our view, it lacks clarity, and we feel like they're still trying to figure out how to communicate what that really is. But is really, we think a lot of potential there to that vision. Databricks is also interesting because the firm has momentum and we expect further elevated levels in the vertical axis in upcoming surveys, especially as it readies for its IPO. The firm has a strong product and managed service, and is really one to watch. Now we included a number of other database companies for obvious reasons like Redis and Mongo, MariaDB, Couchbase and Terradata. SAP as well is in there, but that's not all database, but SAP is prominent so we included them. As is IBM more of a database, traditional database player also with the big presence. Cloudera includes Hortonworks and HPE Ezmeral comprises the MapR business that HPE acquired. So these guys got the big data movement started, between Cloudera, Hortonworks which is born out of Yahoo, which was the early big data, sorry early Hadoop innovator, kind of MapR when it's kind of owned course, and now that's all kind of come together in various forms. And of course, we've got Talend and Informatica are there, they are two data integration companies that are worth noting. We also included some of the AI and ML specialists and data science players in the mix like DataRobot who just did a monster $250 million round. Dataiku, H2O.ai and ThoughtSpot, which is all about democratizing data and injecting AI, and I think fits well into the data mesh concept. And you know we put VMware Cloud in there for reference because it really is the predominant on-prem infrastructure platform. All right, let's wrap with some final thoughts here, first, thanks a lot to the JP Morgan team for sharing this data. I really want to encourage practitioners and technologists, go to watch the YouTube of that meetup, we'll include it in the link of this session. And thank you to Zhamak Deghani and the entire data mesh community for the outstanding work that you're doing, challenging the established conventions of monolithic data architectures. The JPM presentation, it gives you real credibility, it takes Data Mesh well beyond concept, it demonstrates how it can be and is being done. And you know, this is not a perfect world, you're going to start somewhere and there's going to be some failures, the key is to recognize that shoving everything into a monolithic data architecture won't support massive scale and agility that you're after. It's maybe fine for smaller use cases in smaller firms, but if you're building a global platform in a data business, it's time to rethink data architecture. Now much of this is enabled by the cloud, but cloud first doesn't mean cloud only, doesn't mean you'll leave your on-prem data behind, on the contrary, you have to include non-public cloud data in your Data Mesh vision just as JPMC has done. You've got to get some quick wins, that's crucial so you can gain credibility within the organization and grow. And one of the key takeaways from the JP Morgan team is, there is a place for dogma, like organizing around data products and domains and getting that right. On the other hand, you have to remain flexible because technologies is going to come, technology is going to go, so you got to be flexible in that regard. And look, if you're going to embrace the metaphor of water like puddles and ponds and lakes, we suggest maybe a little tongue in cheek, but still we believe in this, that you expand your scope to include data ocean, something John Furry and I have talked about and laughed about extensively in theCUBE. Data oceans, it's huge. It's the new data lake, go transcend data lake, think oceans. And think about this, just as we're evolving our language, we should be evolving our metrics. Much the last the decade of big data was around just getting the stuff to work, getting it up and running, standing up infrastructure and managing massive, how much data you got? Massive amounts of data. And there were many KPIs built around, again, standing up that infrastructure, ingesting data, a lot of technical KPIs. This decade is not just about enabling better insights, it's a more than that. Data mesh points us to a new era of data value, and that requires the new metrics around monetizing data products, like how long does it take to go from data product conception to monetization? And how does that compare to what it is today? And what is the time to quality if the business owns the data, and the business has the context? the quality that comes out of them, out of the shoot should be at a basic level, pretty good, and at a higher mark than out of a big data team with no business context. Automation, AI, and very importantly, organizational restructuring of our data teams will heavily contribute to success in the coming years. So we encourage you, learn, lean in and create your data future. Okay, that's it for now, remember these episodes, they're all available as podcasts wherever you listen, all you got to do is search, breaking analysis podcast, and please subscribe. Check out ETR's website at etr.plus for all the data and all the survey information. We publish a full report every week on wikibon.com and siliconangle.com. And you can get in touch with us, email me david.vellante@siliconangle.com, you can DM me @dvellante, or you can comment on my LinkedIn posts. This is Dave Vellante for theCUBE insights powered by ETR. Have a great week everybody, stay safe, be well, and we'll see you next time. (upbeat music)

(upbeat music) >> Hello, and welcome to today's session of the 2021 AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards. I'm delighted to present our special guests for today's program and they are Kyle Hines, VP Strategic Accounts at Presidio as well as chief Chuck Hoskin, Jr., chief of the Cherokee Nation. Welcome to the program, gentlemen >> Thank you. >> Terrific, well, delighted to have you here, we're going to discuss the key award of best partner transformation, most impactful nonprofit partner, of course now highlighting some of the technologies now being technology now being leveraged to help preserve the Cherokee language as well as its culture. Now, Chuck, I'd like to start with you and if you could describe some of the challenges that the Cherokee nation is now faced with in terms of preserving the language and its culture and how you see technology being able to really help preserve it. >> Well, thank you, Natalie. It was really good to be with you all today. The Cherokee language and culture is what makes us unique as a people. It's the link that links us back to time and immemorial through generations. And over those generations, there've been many threats to our language and culture. There's been disease after European contact, there's been dispossession, there's been our forced removal on the trail of tears. Other pressures in more modern times have continued to erode our language and culture, including, boarding schools, the public school system through most of the 20th century as Cherokee Nation has gotten back on its feet, that is to say when the govern the United States has allowed Cherokee Nation to do what we've always done well which is to govern ourselves, chart our own destiny, and preserve our life ways, we've been able to make preservation efforts but those generations of eroding our language and culture had coming to steep costs. We're the largest tribe in the country, 392,000 citizens and by the way we're mostly in Northeast, Oklahoma but we have Cherokees living all over the country even all over the world. And we only have 2000 fluent speakers left. So it's a great challenge to save a language that's truly endangered. And if we don't save it generations from now we may do a number of things exceedingly well as we do today, business, providing education and housing, creating a great healthcare system, but we will have lost that thing that makes us a unique people, that thing that links us back to our past. And so what we're doing today, working with great partners like Presidio is just indispensable to what's really our most important mission. >> Yeah, terrific. Well, thank you so much for those insights. I'd like to switch it over to Kyle and hear about the technologies now being utilized to preserve the Cherokee language and culture. >> Sure, happy to Natalie and thanks for having us this morning. So yeah, when we started to work with the Cherokee Nation, it was very clear to us that, there's obviously a higher power or a higher mission here. And so it's really been an honor to work with the chief and the nation and what we've been able to do is is take what the Cherokee Nation is trying to do in terms of language and cultural preservation and build solutions in really a very modern way. So between Inage’i, the 3D mobile open-world game and the virtual classroom platform, it's entirely a cloud native serverless solution in AWS, using a lot of the most modern tools and technologies in the marketplace. For example, in the mobile game, it's built around unity and the virtual classroom platform is built around the Amazon chime SDK, which allows us to really build something that is very clean and light and focused on what the nation is trying to achieve and really cut out a lot of the baggage and the other sort of plumbing and various other technologies that this would have, this type of solution would have taken just a few short years ago. >> Yeah, terrific. Well, Kyle, staying with you, what do you think were some of the factors behind the development of this solution? >> Yeah, so I think flexibility was key. Was maybe the biggest design goal in building these solutions because you learn a lot when you originally set out to build something and it starts to impact real users, and in this case, speakers of the Cherokee Nation, you learn a tremendous amount about the language and how it's used and how people communicate with each other. And so the main design goal of the solutions was to allow a sort of flexibility that lets us adapt. And every time we learn something and every time we find something that works or perhaps doesn't work quite as well as was imagined, we have the flexibility to change that and kind of stay nimble and on our toes. >> Terrific, well, Chuck, now switching over to you, why do you think that some of these, platforms like the virtual classroom are so effective with Cherokee speakers? >> Well, a couple of reasons, one pandemic related, during COVID the worst public health crisis the world seen in living memory, we have had to adapt quickly to continue on our mission to save this language. We couldn't afford a year off in terms of pairing speakers, by the way, most of our fluent speakers are over the age of 70, with young people who need to learn the language and be the new generation of speakers. So it's been really important that during those difficult times we could connect virtually and the technology we've been using has worked so effectively, but the other is really irrespective of what's going on in terms of having to isolate, and social distance and things of that nature during COVID, and that is just making sure we can make this language accessible, particularly to young people in a manner in which they are becoming accustomed to learning things throughout the rest of the world. And so using platforms that they're familiar with is very important but it also has to be something that an older generation of these fluent speakers, as I say most of them are over 70, can use. And that's what really has been so effective about this platform. It's so usable. Once you introduce it to people whether it's a young person who can adapt pretty quickly 'cause they're growing up immersed in it, or it's someone who has not been familiar with that technology, with just a little bit of showing them how to use it, suddenly this classroom becomes just like you're in person. And that makes all the difference in the world in terms of connecting these young people with their elders. As the other thing is Cherokees are by nature very much part of a big extended family. And so that personal connection that you can maintain through this platform is really important. I think it's going to be the key to how we save this language, because as I say we have Cherokees all over the country, even all over the world and we're going to harness our numbers, the large population we have and find those with the interest and aptitude to learn the language, we must use this technology and so far it's worked well. >> Yeah, terrific, and now switching over to Kyle, we'd love to hear from you how your team developed this technology. How they really thought out, what kinds of methods are really going to drive the interaction and the immersion and engagement among these disparate demographics of, elderly Cherokees and also the young generation. So, how did your team go about developing that? >> Yeah, it's a very good question because in a situation like this, there is no shortage of different ways that you could have built a solution like this. There are a lot of different ways that it could have been done. So the tax that we took was a rigorous focus on the user experience and on the experience of the speaker. And that allowed us to detach ourselves to a large degree from what were the exact technology choices that were implemented in terms of AWS services, other open source packages that run on AWS, it's being able to focus completely on what the nation was trying to achieve with their speakers, both through the game and the virtual classroom platform. It let us take a lot of other design decisions and technology choices sort of into the background and behind a level of abstraction. And so there's always quite a bit of rigorous testing and really making sure you understand how something's going to perform in the wild, but the reality of the situation was, the whole reason for doing it was the experience of the speakers, both in the game and in the classroom platform. So we stayed very focused on that and made technology decisions sort of second fiddle or lower priority. >> Terrific, well, Chuck, how do you think that these kinds of innovations could be applied to other areas of the Cherokee school system? >> Well, our greatest challenge is preserving language and culture, but we also have as part of our mission to educate this new generation of Cherokees coming up. For years and years, really generations, Cherokees who were able to get a good education many of them left our tribal lands for new opportunities. And so we lost a great deal because of the economic pressures here in Northeast, Oklahoma, particularly on our Cherokee lands. So the task now is to generate opportunity for a new generation coming up. Education is key to that and so if we want to create a pipeline of young Cherokees who want to get into the healthcare fields, want to get into aerospace, want to get into other professions, we've got to create an education system that is steadier and modern. We have a school that is K through 12th grade, K through the senior year, and so we have an opportunity really to do that. And I think for the first time in our history, in this era, I'm talking elect the last few decades, we are able to really craft education in a way that works for us and using technology and making choices about what that technology is, is important to us. It's a bygone era in which the federal government or the state is sort of imposing on us what choices we make. Now we can reach out with great partners all over the world like Presidio and say what solution can work for our classroom? When we can identify what the great demands are on the reservation in terms of jobs. And one of the great demands we have is healthcare. So how can we use technology to inspire little Cherokee boys and girls to grow up and be doctors and nurses here in just a few decades when we're building this great health system? Well, we're going to use technology to do it. So the possibilities are really unlimited and they need to be because we think our potential here in Cherokee Nation is unlimited. >> Yeah, I mean that's terrific to hear how technology is really encouraging younger generations to study, learn and really push themselves further. Kyle, I'd like to switch over to you and hear a little bit about the benefits of launching this kind of platform on AWS. >> Yeah, there are a lot of benefits to building this on AWS. And I think that it spans a couple of categories, even. I mean, from a technological perspective there was every tool and every service that we needed to build both of the solutions that we built right there in AWS. And when there was a, when there was a time where we needed to jump out and use a project outside of AWS, running on AWS such as the unity engine, AWS makes that very easy. So I would say that the choice was easy because there are technological realities and the breadth and the depth of the technological portfolio in AWS combined with the partnership that we get from them, It's really, you know, there's a lot of support when it comes to, Hey we're working with the Cherokee nation on something that's extremely important. We need your help. We need you to help us figure this out. It's never been hard to get that partnership. >> Terrific, and also following up on that, love to hear how AWS really helped with flexibility and also the cost effective effectiveness of this kind of platform. >> Yeah I would take those questions backwards or in reverse order because the cost-effectiveness of the solution is really, it's really something to make note of because when we build something in the way that we built these platforms they're serverless and event driven. Meaning that the Cherokee Nation is not paying for a solution constantly as we would in lives past running things in data centers and such. It really, the services in AWS allow us to say, Hey, let's spin up certain pieces of functionality when they're needed as they're being used. And the meter is running during that time, and the cost is occurred during the time it's being used and not all of the time. So that really has a dramatic impact on cost effectiveness. And then from a flexibility standpoint, as we learn new things, as we evolve the platform as we grow this out to more and more speakers and to more and more impact to the Cherokee Nation, we have all kinds of different technology choices that we can make and it's all contained within AWS. >> Yeah, and I'd like to open this now to both of you, starting with Chuck, how do you think this kind of technology could be applied to other cultures or languages that re seeking to preserve themselves? There's so many languages in the world that are now dying out because most of us are only speaking, just a few like English, Spanish, just a few others, what steps can be taken so that humanity can preserve these important languages? >> Well, you're right. There are so many endangered languages around the world and indigenous languages are unfortunately dying all over the world all the time, even as we speak, they're slipping away. The United nations is dedicated the next decade to the preservation of indigenous languages. That's gotten many leaders around the world thinking about how we can save languages here in this era. And I would encourage any tribal leader in particular in the United States, but I think it certainly applies around the world to seek out this technology. I mean, Cherokee Nation's in a position now where we can seek out the best in the world in terms of partnerships. And we've found that in Presidio. And of course they're using AWS which means they're using the best in the world and so the technology exists, and the willingness to work together exist. And I think generations ago that would have been not something we could have connected well on in terms of partnering with companies that were doing cutting edge things. So if you're looking to connect generations in terms of learning and sharing the language, which is just I cannot stress enough how indispensable that is to language preservation, this type of technology will do it. There are some, I think that may think, and I don't have a technology background, that if you're using this cutting edge technology, I mean this is the best in the world that you're going to speak only to this young generation coming up, and maybe it's inaccessible to an older generation. It's just not the case. This is so user-friendly that we we've been able to connect elders with young people. And if anyone in the world interested in preserving languages could see this in action, could see a young person sitting next to an elder talking about the technology or connecting virtually, it would change their whole perspective on what technology means for language reservations because I promise you all over the world the great challenges you have this group of older generations of people who know the language. They have it in their hearts, they have it in their minds and they're slipping away just from the passage of time. Connecting them with the generation coming up is just what we need to do. This technology allows us to do it. >> Yeah, Chuck following up on that when I hear about elderly people being able to connect with the younger generations in this way and share their history and their culture I'm sure that also, It must have a positive mental effect for them. Right, so elderly are often isolated. Do you have any insight on that? Any quality of insight what you've heard from people using this? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think the last year has proven how valuable it is. I mean, we lost over 50 fluent Cherokee speakers and I mentioned earlier in the program, that we only have 2000 left. 50 to COVID and more to just the passage of time and old age. But we have many that are active and engaged in language preservation and they have said to me how valuable it's been to be able to be at home and yet still feel like they're part of this great mission that we have at the Cherokee Nation. Understand that this mission that we have is on par with what any nation in history has set as a goal to shoot for whether it's the United States wanting to land a man on the moon, we're trying to save the language. This is that level of importance. And so for an elder to feel like they're connected and still contributing during this past year difficult times, that makes all the difference in the world. And even as I say, as the pandemic recedes and we hope it continues to recede, there is still a need for elders to stay connected. And in many cases they cannot due to poor health, due to the lack of transportation, this knocks down those barriers and so there's a great deal of joy that has been gained from using this technology. And honestly, just talking to elders about young people getting the opportunity to play this video game even some elders that were voice actors in this game, that Presidio helped us develop. I mean, I can't tell you how important that is for somebody to use their language, to make a living. And that's part of how you preserve a language. Presidio has showed us a way that we can do just that. So we're not only training new speakers, we're giving this opportunity many cases to elders to do something that is very productive with the wonderful gift they have, which is the Cherokee language. >> Terrific, well that is really inspiring because potentially this technology could be utilized by generations to come. The current young people that are using this will one day be the elderly. So, Kyle, how do you see this technology potentially on this platform being evolved? What's the next step to keep it really up to date for future generations as it's evolving. >> Yeah, there's a lot of plans on where to take this I can tell you, honestly. From the perspective of the mobile game, you're building on a platform of an open world game means that the imagination is the limit quite honestly. So there are a lot of new characters and new levels and new adventures that are plans to further immerse the speakers in the platform. And I think that will, that will help with reach and it will help with the amount of connection that's built to the chief's point about bridging the older generations into the younger generations over that common bond of the language and the culture that keeps those connections alive. And so we want to expand the mobile game Engage, the navigate to be as accessible and as wide reaching and immersive as it possibly can, and there are a lot of plans in the works for that. And then with the virtual classroom platform, we started with a various focused constituency within the nation of the language immersion school. And there are many other educational services and even healthcare to the chief's earlier point again where I think there's a lot of potential for that one as well. >> All right, well, terrific gentlemen. Thank you so much for your insights, really fantastic hearing how this platform is really a difference in the lives of people in the Cherokee Nation. Of course, that were our guests, Kyle Hines, VP Strategic Accounts at Presidio as well as chief Chuck Hoskin Jr., the chief of the Cherokee Nation. And that's all for today's session at the 2021 AWS Global Public Sector Partner Awards, I'm your host for "theCUBE", Natalie Erlich. Thanks so much for watching. (upbeat music)

>>from around the >>globe. It's the Cube with digital coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 Special coverage sponsored by AWS Worldwide Public Sector >>Hi and welcome to the Q Virtual and our coverage of AWS reinvent 2020 with special coverage of the public sector. I'm your host, Rebecca >>Knight. >>Today we have two guests for our segment. We have Kevin McCallum Jr. He is the chief technology officer at Maximus. Thanks for joining us, Kevin, and we have way. And we have Steve Zimmerman, who is the vice president of consulting services at Insight. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Steve. >>Thank you for having us appreciate it. >>So I want to start by asking. You both have to tell us a little bit more about your company's. Kevin. Let's start with you. Tell us a little bit more about Maximus. >>Yes, Thanks for having me. Maximus is a 40 year old company. We partner with state, federal and local governments to provide communities with critical health and human service programs. We leverage extensive experience to develop high quality services and solutions that are cost effective and tailored to their unique needs. One of the things that we do is offer government's ability to programs rapidly and scalable so that we can focus on the automation and their operations. We do services from Medicare to Medicaid, Welford work, and we have comprehensive solutions. Help the government's run effectively and efficiently. >>Great, Steve, tell us a little bit about insight. >>Yeah, sure. Um, Insight is a Fortune 500 company, you know, in 2020 will roughly do you know, probably a plus billion dollars in revenue. Global company. You know, we have thousands of treaty GIC relationships, but I'd say we have probably a couple 100 partners. We focus on one of those key partners to us is a W s. Right. As we go to market, Azzawi start, you know, working with our customers around transformation, of which we're gonna talk a little bit about that today with Kevin as it relates, Thio incite public sector. It's >>a pretty sizable >>part of our business. You know, we'll do about $1.5 billion in revenue. We have 200 plus contract vehicles, will work out there over 500 plus teammates, and we're seeing that business grow quarter over quarter, 20% growth. So It's a big investment for us and really looking forward to hearing Kevin talk about Maximus, uh, to the team, because obviously it's a big lever for us for inside public sector to get the word out there about the great transformation work. What you do with our customers. >>That's a great segue. So let's go back to you, Kevin, and talk a little bit about Maximus. Cloud transformation. Why did you hire insight for help you with this? >>Yeah, A Z We started our journey. One of the things we realized is as we were moving to the cloud is the experience. We needed a trusted partner and we ran an RFP process looking for partners out there that have done it that have done major data center programs. You're moving large companies, you know, We're moving about 6000 workloads 160 plus applications. So it was not a light or easy project and insight fit that. Aziz, We went through the interview process. It became very clear that they have done this for Fortune 500 companies in the past and their experience is beneficial to helping us drive to the future and the other factors is we wanted to make sure that once we were done with the project, we had the experience internally that they helped us with Thio drive forward. >>So talking about the importance of a trusted partner, which is such a key component of digital transformation cloud journeys tell us a little bit about the the strategy tied to the data center transformation and why you chose AWS. >>Sure. So, as we started doing our research, we did analysis across all of the cloud providers who were out there. AWS is clear leader in the marketplace. Their technology is better aligned with what Maximus has as the underlying technologies were, ah, majority of Lennox Base. We also have windows. We have Oracle, which, with the AWS depth on breath of our offerings, tied better to what we had. The other thing we were looking to do is get rid of our monolithic off the shelf products and use mawr of the cloud based products that are out there. Amazon has a very deep, uh, native technology that allows you to replace your old services where you had to bolt on or purchase another product to something that is integrated and streamlined, you know, down Thio, how do you monitor your systems? How do you do logs things like that. And, you know, as we looked at the time frame, we had to deliver this. They had to be able to grow with us. So as we were building out, new infrastructure were able to build where previously internally. With data centers, you have to buy infrastructure. You wait for it to arrive, you install it. Amazon has it at the click of a ah button. So we're able Thio basically have environment stood up in a day rather than having to wait weeks for it. So and the last thing was up time. So you know Amazon. They're five nines plus in up time and most of our contracts or three nines or better requirements. We had to find a bender that had multiple availability zones and regions that allowed us to be flexible in how we deployed. >>So talking about the convenience and the ability to streamline, and also the need for flexibility in the covert era. Of course, the word hybrid work environments has taken on a new meaning. But I want to ask you about how you see the hybrid era in the long term affecting Maximus. >>Yeah. Since Maximus is a government contractor, we will always be in a hybrid, uh, set up. So some of our contracts are very restrictive, especially when you get into our S d. O. D. And some of those agencies you have a fed ramp requirement is right. Well, with some of the federal agencies. So some of those components about to stay internally So where we can force, uh, you know, moving to the cloud because of the flexibility we have to deploy, that is the right will go. Um, co vid has introduced a new complexity. When it started back in March, you know, Maximus had 30,000 or so employees, and we instantly were thrown into You gotta make those employees get those employees to work from home. So we used Amazon's workspace Thio push our employees to work from home, where, you know, some of the employees and some of our contracts are customer owned equipment. So we couldn't actually take that equipment home. So we had to move to a B y o d model on Amazon workspaces in order to get the users to work from home and the complexity that, with what Amazon has to offer, allowed us to quickly move over 25,000 employees on the Amazon workspaces and work from home and then keeping the data center migration moving in the middle of it has also been, ah, challenge. So we will, in our federal space, still have internal data centers. Integration points that Amazon offers with their inter connects is key toe. How we make it a seamless process because we may have a business unit has stuff sitting in the data center and at Amazon, and they have to look at the seamless package. >>Steve, I want to bring you in here a little bit into this conversation. Cloud transformation, digital transformation. These are These are difficult and huge undertaking in the best of times. How does this pandemic this health crisis emergency. How has that affected the way you help your clients the way you work with your clients? Collaborate, communicate, talk a little bit about the effect of Kobe on this on the >>eso I would. I'll answer the question in a couple different ways, so I would agree with Kevin because, you know, forget about what we do with our customers. You know, we had a pivot really quick to write all remote workforce. You know, I think about my team, you know, 1000 plus teammates. Everyone's 80% travel all gone like, um, and I write eso everybody working remote. Everybody work from their homes. And but the challenging part was working with our customers. And, you know, I look at you know, I looked at with Kevin. You know, I've never met Kevin in person, you know, frankly, and there's teammates have come on to our to the project and execute executing this program remotely, so it makes it that much harder working with the customer. Um, you know, doing more video chats. You know, our methodology is built to be all remote. We have a proprietary tool called snap start that allows to bail scan environments. All that things done. Remote migrations could be done remote. The hard part is when you have to go on site because there's this stuff you have to go on site for around physical inventory to look at the equipment, but it just makes it that much harder. You know, I think he taking advantage of these video tools like we're doing today. You know, I can't tell me how many Skype You know how many calls have been on with Kevin like this and with his peers and with his leadership. But communication is really important program like this because, you know, in a program like this, there will be problems, right? And there will be challenges and, you know, getting on a call on being I will look at Kevin face to face and see what his reaction is really key. But you gotta work that much harder. You gotta work that much harder now in the pandemic. You know, I have other projects right now leaving with this other projects that, frankly, we have sold all remote and we're doing it all remote. And what I'm seeing with the bidam IQ is an acceleration of digital transformation. So, other similar projects like we're doing with Kevin. We're doing for other large fortune 500 companies because it's an acceleration of Hey, look, we gotta be old digital now, so it'll be interesting to see you know how the pandemic effects is long term because it is definitely accelerating out their digital transformation if you haven't done it, you're in trouble because it's gonna eat your company alive. >>Mhm. So, Kevin, he's talking. He talked a little bit about she talked a little bit about the importance of communication, particularly when work so many people are working from home. Um, talk a little bit of about other best practices that have emerged. Things that you have noticed. Things that you advice you would have to your peers. I mean, a Z we heard from Steve. If you're not there yet, you're in trouble. But for the for the people, for the executives out there who are watching this, What advice would you have for them? >>Yeah, I think that you know this this is brought to light. You know, there was always a view that you had to be in an office on a white board and actual actually functioning in that fashion. So, you know, before the pandemic, I was traveling three weeks a month on now, not traveling. I feel that I actually get more work done. I actually feel that I'm closer to the team just because we've introduced a lot of different digital channels. So now we have slack we have teams we do zoom. I require everybody to be on a on video, whereas previously before the pandemic you'd rarely have anybody on video. Um, and you've seen Ah, transformation is people pick up the phone a lot quicker than they did in the past. So it is, actually, I believe, brought the team closer together because now you know, everybody's on. Um, the downside of it is everybody's on all the time. So you've also had to have people step away from work because generally when they take PTO, they leave the office that go somewhere with their family. Now it's your kind of at home. There's not much to dio. You kinda have to force them to take the time off. One of the major factors that has has been interesting is we're doing this transformation in the middle of co vid with moving. All of our resource is the home. So we've we've had to take pauses, toe focus on getting everybody to work from home. Okay, now their work from home back to the project. And, you know, it's kind of a change the timeline a little bit, but in the end, you know we have some hard deadlines to meet. So it's been an interesting transition. You >>know, Kevin, um, I wanna agree with you two points is, uh you know, I think we're also getting not only your time, but also senior leadership, that I think, frankly, we never would have gotten, you know, I'm talking, you know, your peers and your leadership, Like I would fly for those meetings. I think about all the time that I've saved. But then again, it never ends, right? Never. It begins and never ends. And, you know, one of the things I'm concerned about is you know, the long term burnout factor for these folks because and depending on what state you're in, it never ends. You don't have anywhere to go, right. And you know, I think about teammates. I think you know, Kevin, I have talked about this related to our project like burdens and really thing right now for sure. 889 months into this thing. It's a real thing. Is people they have to focus on. Is is work sometimes. So it's a it's a concern for all of us is a project team is we start looking at the executing. This continue to execute this program for the next year. >>And it really highlights the importance of visionary leadership and a leader who cares who is empathetic, who is checking in with his or her team and making sure that the colleagues feel appreciated and cared for. I want you both to just give us look into your crystal ball is a little bit and talk about the where you see things 12, 24 months from now. Hopefully there will be a vaccine and we will return to somewhat of a of a new normal. Um, talk a little bit about where you see the Maximus transformation in two years. Absolutely. Yeah. Start with you. >>So s so you know, our cloud migration. We have some hard deadlines through next year, so we have a focus with insight to get that completed by September next year because our data center contracts are up and we've got to get out. You know, one of the the advantages of where we're headed is to move into more of a Dev ops model where you know you're able thio enable groups that have previously not been able to do work just do thio. The infrastructure was set up your now, enabling them to do deployments, get into production and have full stack ownership. That's really where our focus is. Is enablement of the teams that couldn't do the work previously because now you're in a different type of environment. Um, the other thing is being able thio be more agile. So as we move forward into the cloud journey, we as a company are consort contracts quicker. We are part of the, you know, contract tracing on unemployment insurance. We've done a lot of contracts with states that you know previously most of our contracts or anywhere from a 62 120 day startup. These contracts and contact tracing and covert projects. We've had to start them up in three days. That's having 500 employees online on workspaces on Genesis Cloud and fully functional, and it has been a challenge. But it also has introduced a a better way to do business because now we can we can move quicker for our customers and we can get contracts where they come and say, Hey, I need something in the next couple days. If you look further down the road. You know, it's taking the advantage of what Amazon has to offer, you know, moving from arm or monolithic programs like, you know, we sit on Oracle on Lenox today. You know, we could move into Aurora, which opens up the doors and floodgates, because then you manage, er a little differently. You manage your data a little differently. That's really where I think the the market's going and where we can actually transform our business. Even better, Thio, where we could be more flexible. We can start up quicker and, you know, be doom or things for our customers. >>The final word from you >>e I think it's gonna be a hybrid world, right? It's at least in the short term. And you know, we believe it's all about the workload and getting those workloads or applications, you know, in in the right spot, whether it be public or private and helping our customers with that journey, you know, just a pile on with Kevin talked about around Dev ops. Once you get a guy to get once you get all the stuff over there, you still got to manage it, Whether it's in a W. S or, you know, on Prem. You still gotta have a process to do that. So we see a lot of opportunity around the Modern I t operations and helping with that way. We want to continue to be a trusted partner. Thio Maximus. It's been a great relationship, but I want to thank Kevin and his his leadership team for trusting in us. And we look forward, Um, or more success with him in the future. >>Excellent. Thank you both so much. Kevin and Steve, thanks so much for coming on the Cube. >>Absolutely. Thank you. >>I'm your host, Rebecca. Night. Stay tuned. For more of the Cube virtual coverage of AWS reinvent with special coverage of the public sector.

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Yukon and Cloud. Native Con North America. 2020. Virtual Brought to You by Red Hat, The Cloud, Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem Partners Welcome back to the Cube. Virtual coverage of KUB Con Cloud native 2020. It's virtual this year. We're not face to face. Were normally in person where we have great interviews. Everyone's kind of jamming in the hallways, having a good time talking tech, identifying the new projects and knew where So we're not. There were remote. I'm John for your host. We've got two great gas, both Cuba alumni's Chris. And is it chief technology officer of the C and C F Chris, Welcome back. Great to see you. Thanks for coming on. Appreciate it. >>Awesome. Glad to be here. >>And, of course, another Cube alumni who is in studio. But we haven't had him at a Show Jr store meant executive director of the Fin Ops Foundation. And that's the purpose of this session. A interesting data point we're going to dig into how cloud has been enabling Mawr communities, more networks of practitioners who are still working together, and it's also a success point Chris on the C N C F vision, which has been playing out beautifully. So we're looking forward to digging. Jr. Thanks for coming on. Great to see you. >>Yeah, great to be here. Thanks, John. >>So, first of all, I want to get the facts out there. I think this is really important story that people should pay attention to the Finn Ops Foundation. That J. R. That you're running is really an interesting success point because it's it's not the c n c f. Okay. It's a practitioner that builds on cloud. Your experience in community you had is doing specific things that they're I won't say narrow but specific toe a certain fintech things. But it's really about the success of Cloud. Can you explain and and layout for take a minute to explain What is the fin Ops foundation and has it relate to see NCF? >>Yeah, definitely. So you know, if you think about this, the shift that we've had to companies deploying primarily in cloud, whether it be containers a ciencia focuses on or traditional infrastructure. The thing that typically people focus on right is the technology and innovation and speed to market in all those areas. But invariably companies hit this. We'd like to call the spend panic moment where they realize they're They're initially spending much more than they expected. But more importantly, they don't really have the processes in place or the people or the tools to do things like fully, you know, understand where their costs are going to look at how to optimize those to operate that in their organizations. And so the foundation pinups foundation eyes really focused on, uh, the people in practitioners who are in organizations doing cloud financial management, which is, you know, being those who drive this accountability of this variable spin model that's existed. So we were partnering very closely with, uh, see NCF. And we're now actually part of the Linux Foundation as of a few months ago, Uh, and you know, just to kind of put into context how that you kind of Iraq together, whereas, you know, CNC s very focused on open source coordinative projects, you know, For example, Spotify just launched their backstage cloud called Management Tool into CFCF Spotify folks, in our end, are working on the best practices around the cloud financial management that standards to go along with that. So we're there to help, you know, define this sort of cultural transformation, which is a shift to now. Engineers happen to think about costs as they never did before. On finance, people happen to partner with technology teams at the speed of cloud, and, you know executives happen to make trade off decisions and really change the way that they operate the business. With this variable page ago, engineers have all the access to spend the money in Cloud Model. >>Hey, blank check for engineers who doesn't like that rain that in its like shift left for security. And now you've got to deal with the financial Finn ops. It's really important. It's super point, Chris. In all seriousness. Putting kidding aside, this is exactly the kind of thing you see with open sores. You're seeing things like shift left, where you wanna have security baked in. You know what Jr is done in a fabulous job with his community now part of Linux Foundation scaling up, there's important things to nail down that is specific to that domain that are related to cloud. What's your thoughts on this? Because you're seeing it play out. >>Yeah, no, I mean, you know, I talked to a lot of our end user members and companies that have been adopting Cloud Native and I have lots of friends that run, you know, cloud infrastructure at companies. And Justus Jr said, You know, eventually there's been a lot of success and cognitive and want to start using a lot of things. Your bills are a little bit more higher than you expect. You actually have trouble figuring out, you know, kind of who's using what because, you know, let's be honest. A lot of the clouds have built amazing services. But let's say the financial management and cost management accounting tools charge back is not really built in well. And so I kind of noticed this this issue where it's like, great everyone's using all these services. Everything is great, But costs are a little bit confusing, hard to manage and, you know, you know, scientifically, you know, I ran into, you know, Jr and his community out there because my community was having a need of like, you know, there's just not good tools, standards, no practices out there. And, you know, the Finau Foundation was working on these kind of great things. So we started definitely found a way to kind of work together and be under the same umbrella foundation, you know, under the under Linux Foundation. In my personal opinion, I see more and more standards and tools to be created in this space. You know, there's, you know, very few specifications or standards and trying to get cost, you know, data out of different clouds and tools out there, I predict, Ah, lot more work is going to be done. Um, in this space, whether it's done and defendants foundation itself, CNC f, I think will probably be, uh, collaboration amongst communities. Can I truly figure this out? So, uh, engineers have any easier understanding of, you know, if I spent up the service or experiment? How much is this actually going to potentially impact the cost of things and and for a while, You know, uh, engineers just don't think about this. When I was at Twitter, we spot up services all time without really care about cost on, and that's happening a lot of small companies now, which don't necessarily have as a big bucket. So I'm excited about the space. I think you're gonna see a huge amount of focus on cloud financial management drops in the near future. >>Chris, thanks for that great insight. I think you've got a great perspective. You know, in some cases, it's a fast and loose environment. Like Twitter. You mentioned you've got kind of a blank check and the rocket ships going. But, Jr, this brings up to kind of points. This kind of like the whole code side of it. The software piece where people are building code, but also this the human error. I mean, we were playing with clubs, so we have a big media cloud and Amazon and we left there. One of the buckets open on the switches and elemental. We're getting charged. Massive amounts for us cash were like, Wait a minute, not even using this thing. We used it once, and it left it open. It was like the water was flowing through the pipes and charging us. So you know, this human error is throwing the wrong switch. I mean, it was simply one configuration error, in some cases, just more about planning and thinking about prototypes. >>Yeah. I mean, so take what your experience there. Waas and multiply by 1000 development teams in a big organization who all have access to cloud. And then, you know, it's it's and this isn't really about a set of new technologies. It's about a new set of processes and a cultural change, as Chris mentioned, you know, engineers now thinking about cost and this being a whole new efficiency metric for them to manage, right? You know, finance teams now see this world where it's like tomorrow. The cost could go three x the next day they could go down. You've got, you know, things spending up by the second. So there's a whole set of cross functional, and that's the majority of the work that are members do is really around. How do we get these cross functional teams working together? How do we get you know, each team up leveled on what they need, understand with cloud? Because not only is it, you know, highly variable, but it's highly decentralized now, and we're seeing, you know, cloud hit. These sort of material spend levels where you know, the big, big cloud spenders out there spending, you know, high nine figures in some cases you know, in cloud and it's this material for their for their businesses. >>And let's just let's be honest. Here is like Clouds, for the most part, don't really have a huge incentive in offering limits and so on. It's just, you know, like, hey, the more usage that the better And hopefully getting a group of practitioners in real figures. Well, holy put pressure to build better tools and services in this area. I think actually it is happening. I think Jared could correct me if wrong. I think AWS recently announced a feature where I think it's finally like quotas, you know, enabled, you know, you have introducing quotas now for and building limits at some level, which, you know, I think it's 2020 Thank you know, >>just to push back a little bit in support of our friends, you ask Google this company, you know, for a long time doing this work, we were worried that the cloud would be like, What are you doing? Are you trying to get our trying to minimize commitments and you know the dirty secret of this type of work? And I were just talking a bunch of practitioners today is that cloud spend never really goes down. When you do this work, you actually end up spending more because you know you're more comfortable with the efficiency that you're getting, and your CEO is like, let's move more workloads over. But let's accelerate. Let's let's do Maurin Cloud goes out more data centers. And so the cloud providers air actually largely incentivized to say, Yeah, we want people to be officially don't understand this And so it's been a great collaboration with those companies. As you said, you know, aws, Google, that you're certainly really focused in this area and ship more features and more data for you. It's >>really about getting smart. I mean, you know, they no, >>you could >>do it. I mean, remember the old browser days you could switch the default search engine through 10 menus. You could certainly find the way if you really wanted to dig in and make policy a simple abstraction layer feature, which is really a no brainer thing. So I think getting smarter is the right message. I want to get into the synergy Chris, between this this trend, because I think this points to, um kind of what actually happened here if you look at it at least from my perspective and correct me if I'm wrong. But you had jr had a community of practitioners who was sharing information. Sounds like open source. They're talking and sharing, you know? Hey, don't throw that switch. Do This is the best practice. Um, that's what open communities do. But now you're getting into software. You have to embed cost management into everything, just like security I mentioned earlier. So this trend, I think if you kind of connect the dots is gonna happen in other areas on this is really the synergy. Um, I getting that right with CNC >>f eso The way I see it is, and I dream of a future where developers, as they develop software, will be able to have some insight almost immediately off how much potential, you know, cost or impact. They'll have, you know, on maybe a new service or spinning up or potentially earlier in the development cycle saying, Hey, maybe you're not doing this in a way that is efficient. Maybe you something else. Just having that feedback loop. Ah lot. You know, closer to Deb time than you know a couple weeks out. Something crazy happens all of a sudden you notice, You know, based on you know, your phase or financial folks reaching out to you saying, Hey, what's going on here? This is a little bit insane. So I think what we'll see is, as you know, practitioners and you know, Jr spinoffs, foundation community, you know, get together share practices. A lot of them, you know, just as we saw on sense. Yeah, kind of build their own tools, models, abstractions. And, you know, they're starting to share these things. And once you start sharing these things, you end up with a you know, a dozen tools. Eventually, you know, sharing, you know, knowledge sharing, code sharing, you know, specifications. Sharing happens Eventually, things kind of, you know, become de facto tools and standards. And I think we'll see that, you know, transition in the thin ops community over the next 12 to 4 months. You know, very soon in my thing. I think that's kind of where I see things going, >>Jr. This really kind of also puts a riel, you know, spotlight and illustrates the whole developer. First cliche. I mean, it's really not a cliche. It's It's happening. Developers first, when you start getting into the calculations of our oi, which is the number one C level question is Hey, what's the are aware of this problem Project or I won't say cover your ass. But I mean, if someone kind of does a project that it breaks the bank or causes a, you know, financial problem, you know, someone gets pulled out to the back would shed. So, you know, here you're you're balancing both ends of the spectrum, you know, risk management on one side, and you've got return on investment on the other. Is that coming out from the conversation where you guys just in the early stages, I could almost imagine that this is a beautiful tailwind for you? These thes trends, >>Yeah. I mean, if you think about the work that we're doing in our practice you're doing, it's not about saving money. It's about making money because you actually want empower those engineers to be the innovation engines in the organization to deliver faster to ship faster. At the same time, they now can have, you know, tangible financial roo impacts on the business. So it's a new up leveling skill for them. But then it's also, I think, to Christmas point of, you know, people seeing this stuff more quickly. You know what the model looks like when it's really great is that engineers get near real time visibility into the impact of their change is on the business, and they can start to have conversations with the business or with their finance partners about Okay, you know, if you want me to move fast, I could move fast, But it's gonna cost this if you want me to optimize the cost. I could do that or I can optimize performance. And there's actually, you know, deeper are like conversation the candidate up. >>Now I know a lot of people who watch the Cube always share with me privately and Chris, you got great vision on this. We talked many times about it. We're learning a lot, and the developers are on the front lines and, you know, a lot of them don't have MBAs and, you know they're not in the business, but they can learn quick. If you can code, you can learn business. So, you know, I want you to take a minute Jr and share some, um, educational knowledge to developers were out there who have to sit in these meetings and have to say, Hey, I got to justify this project. Buy versus build. I need to learn all that in business school when I had to see s degree and got my MBA, so I kind of blended it together. But could you share what the community is doing and saying, How does that engineer sit in the meeting and defend or justify, or you some of the best practices what's coming out of the foundation? >>Yeah, I mean, and we're looking at first what a core principles that the whole organization used to line around. And then for each persona, like engineers, what they need to know. So I mean, first and foremost, it's It's about collaboration, you know, with their partners andan starting to get to that world where you're thinking about your use of cloud from a business value driver, right? Like, what is the impact of this? The critical part of that? Those early decentralization where you know, now you've got everybody basically taking ownership for their cloud usage. So for engineers, it's yes, we get that information in front of us quickly. But now we have a new efficiency metric. And engineers don't like inefficiency, right? They want to write fishing code. They wanna have efficient outcomes. Um, at the same time, those engineers need to now, you know, have ah, we call it, call it a common lexicon. Or for Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, folks. Ah, Babel fish that needs to be developed between these teams. So a lot of the conversations with engineers right now is in the foundation is okay. What What financial terms do I need to understand? To have meaningful conversations about Op X and Capex? And what I'm going to make a commitment to a cloud provider like a committed use discount, Google or reserved instance or savings Planet AWS. You know, Is it okay for me to make that? What? How does that impact our, you know, cost of capital. And then and then once I make that, how do I ensure that I could work with those teams to get that allocated and accounted? The right area is not just for charge back purposes, but also so that my teams can see my portion of the estate, right? And they were having the flip side of that conversation with all the finance folks of like, You need to understand how the variable cloud, you know, model works. And you need to understand what these things mean and how they impact the business. And then all that's coming together. And to the point of like, how we're working with C and C f you know, into best practices White papers, you know, training Siri's etcetera, sets of KP eyes and capabilities. Onda. All these problems have been around for years, and I wouldn't say they're solved. But the knowledge is out there were pulling it together. The new level that we're trying to talk with the NCF is okay. In the old world of Cloud, you had 1 to 1 use of a resource. You're running a thing on an instance in the new world, you're running in containers and that, you know, cluster may have lots of pods and name spaces, things inside of it that may be doing lots of different workloads, and you can no longer allocate. I've got this easy to instance and this storage to this thing it's now split up and very ephemeral. And it is a whole new layer of virtualization on top of virtual ization that we didn't have to deal with before. >>And you've got multiple cloud. I'll throw that in there, just make another dimension on it. Chris, tie this together cause this is nice energy to scale up what he's built with the community now, part of the Linux Foundation. This fits nicely into your vision, you know, perfectly. >>Yeah, no, 100% like, you know, so little foundation. You know, as you're well, well aware, is just a federation of open source foundations of groups working together to share knowledge. So it definitely fits in kind of the little foundation mission of, you know, building the largest share technology investment for, you know, humankind. So definitely good there with my kind of C and C f c T o hat, you know, on is, you know, I want to make sure that you know, you know my community and and, you know, the community of cloud native has access and, you know, knowledge about modern. You know, cloud financial management practices out there. If you look at some of the new and upcoming projects in ciencia things like, you know, you know, backstage, which came out of Spotify. They're starting to add functionality that, you know, you know, originally backstage kind of started out as this, you know, everyone builds their own service catalog to go catalog, and you know who owns what and, you know and all that goodness and developers used it. And eventually what happened is they started to add cost, you know, metrics to each of these services and so on. So it surfaces things a little bit closer, you know, a depth time. So my whole goal is to, you know, take some of these great, you know, practices and potential tools that were being built by this wonderful spinoffs community and trying to bring it into the project. You know, front inside of CNC F. So having more projects either exposed, you know, useful. You know, Finn, ops related metrics or, you know, be able to, you know, uh, you know, tool themselves to quickly be able to get useful metrics that could be used by thin ox practitioners out there. That's my kind of goal. And, you know, I just love seeing two communities, uh, come together to improve, improve the state of the world. >>It's just a great vision, and it's needed so and again. It's not about saving money. Certainly does that if you play it right, but it's about growth and people. You need better instrumentation. You need better data. You've got cloud scale. Why not do something there, right? >>Absolutely. It's just maturity after the day because, you know, a lot of engineers, you know, they just love this whole like, you know, rental model just uses many Resource is they want, you know, without even thinking about just basic, you know, metrics in terms of, you know, how many idle instances do I have out there and so, like, people just don't think about that. They think about getting the work done, getting the job done. And if they anything we do to kind of make them think a little bit earlier about costs and impact efficiency, charge back, you know, I think the better the world isn't Honestly, you know, I do see this to me. It's It's almost like, you know, with my hippie hat on. It's like Stephen Green or for the more efficient we are. You know, the better the world off cloud is coming. Can you grow? But we need to be more efficient and careful about the resource is that we use in sentencing >>and certainly with the pandemic, people are virtually you wanted mental health, too. I mean, if people gonna be pulling their hair out, worrying about dollars and cents at scale, I mean, people are gonna be freaking out and you're in meetings justifying why you did things. I mean, that's a time waster, right? I mean, you know, talking about wasting time. >>I have a lot of friends who, you know, run infrastructure at companies. And there's a lot of you know, some companies have been, you know, blessed during this, you know, crazy time with usage. But there is a kind of laser focused on understanding costs and so on and you not be. Do not believe how difficult it is sometimes even just to get, you know, reporting out of these systems, especially if you're using, you know, multiple clouds and multiple services across them. It's not. It's non trivial. And, you know, Jared could speak to this, But, you know, a lot of this world runs in like terrible spreadsheets, right and in versus kind of, you know, nice automated tools with potential, a p I. So there's a lot of this stuff. It's just done sadly in spreadsheets. >>Yeah, salute the flag toe. One standard to rally around us. We see this all the time Jr and emerging inflection points. No de facto kind of things develop. Kubernetes took that track. That was great. What's your take on what he just said? I mean, this is a critical path item for people from all around. >>Yeah, and it's It's really like becoming this bigger and bigger data problem is well, because if you look at the way the clouds are building, they're building per seconds and and down to the very fine grain detail, you know, or functions and and service. And that's amazing for being able to have accountability. But also you get people with at the end of the month of 300 gigabyte billing files, with hundreds of millions of rows and columns attached. So, you know, that's where we do see you companies come together. So yeah, it is a spreadsheet problem, but you can now no longer open your bill in a spreadsheet because it's too big. Eso you know, there's the native tools are doing a lot of work, you know, as you mentioned, you know, AWS and Azure Google shipping a lot. There's there's great, you know, management platforms out there. They're doing work in this area, you know, there's there's people trying to build their own open source the things like Chris was talking about as well. But really, at the end of the day like this, this is This is not a technology. Changes is sort of a cultural shift internally, and it's It's a lot like the like, you know, move from data center to cloud or like waterfall to Dev ops. It's It's a shift in how we're managing, you know, the finances of the money in the business and bringing these groups together. So it it takes time and it takes involvement. I'm also amazed I look like the job titles of the people who are plugged into the Phenoms Foundation and they range from like principal engineers to tech procurement. Thio you know, product leaders to C. T. O. S. And these people are now coming together in the classic to get a seat at the table right toe, Have these conversations and talk about not How do we reduce, you know, cost in the old eighties world. But how do we work together to be more quickly to innovate, to take advantage of these cognitive technologies so that we could be more competitive? Especially now >>it's automation. I mean, all these things are at play. It's about software. I mean, software defined operations is clearly the trend we've been covering. You guys been riding the wave cloud Native actually is so important in all these modern APS, and it applies to almost every aspect of stacks, so makes total sense. Great vision. Um, Chris props to you for that, Jr. Congratulations on a great community, Jerry. I'll give you the final word. Put a plug in for the folks watching on the fin ops Foundation where you're at. What are you looking to do? You adding people, What's your objectives? Take a minute to give the plug? >>Yeah, definitely. We were in open source community, which means we thrive on people contributing inputs. You know, we've got now almost 3000 practitioner members, which is up from 1500 just this this summer on You know, we're looking for those who have either an interesting need to plug into are checked advisory council to help define standards as part of this event, The cognitive gone we're launching Ah, white paper on kubernetes. Uh, and how to do confidential management for it, which was a collaborative effort of a few dozen of our practitioners, as well as our vendor members from VM Ware and Google and APP Thio and a bunch of others who have come together to basically defined how to do this. Well, and, you know, we're looking for folks to plug into that, you know, because at the end of the day, this is about everybody sort of up leveling their skills and knowledge and, you know, the knowledge is out there, nobody's head, and we're focused on how toe drive. Ah, you know, a central collection of that be the central community for it. You enable the people doing this work to get better their jobs and, you know, contribute more of their companies. So I invite you to join us. You know, if your practitioner ITT's Frito, get in there and plug into all the bits and there's great slack interaction channels where people are talking about kubernetes or pinups kubernetes or I need to be asked Google or where we want to go. So I hope you consider joining in the community and join the conversation. >>Thanks for doing that, Chris. Good vision. Thanks for being part of the segment. And, as always, C N C F. This is an enablement model. You throw out the soil, but the 1000 flowers bloom. You don't know what's going to come out of it. You know, new standards, new communities, new vendors, new companies, some entrepreneur Mike jump in this thing and say, Hey, I'm gonna build a better tool. >>Love it. >>You never know. Right? So thanks so much for you guys for coming in. Thanks for the insight. Appreciate. >>Thanks so much, John. >>Thank you for having us. >>Okay. I'm John Furry, the host of the Cube covering Coop Con Cloud, Native Con 2020 with virtual This year, we wish we could be there face to face, but it's cute. Virtual. Thanks for watching

>>from around the globe. It's the Cube with coverage of Yukon and Cloud. Native Con North America 2020 Virtual brought to you by Red Hat The Cloud Native Computing Foundation and Ecosystem >>Partners Everyone welcome back to the cubes. Coverage of Coop con Cloud, native con North America 2020. Normally the Cuba's in person. But like the EU event, this is gonna be a remote virtual event. This is the Cube virtual. We are the Cube Virtual. This is a keynote and show review with our analysts and hosts Lisa Martin, GOP Scar and myself. Guys, welcome to the program. Lisa, Great to see you. You great to see you remotely. Thanks for coming on. >>Always great to be part of the Cuban acute virtual keeping us connected. >>So Coop Con Cloud Native cons November and I remember in 2016 the first Coop Con. That's when Hillary Clinton got defeated by Trump. And now this year the election's passed this time and, uh, Biden the winner. So, you know, election more good vibes this year in the community because everyone was kind of sad last time. So if you remember the first Cube con, it was in Seattle during that time, so that was important to kinda reminisce on. That other thing I want to bring up to you guys is the somber news of the passing of Dan Con who was the executive director of C N C F. He passed a few weeks ago on his home. It was illness and great legend. So we're gonna call that out, and there are thoughts and prayers. Go with the families. Condolences to his wife and kids. So what? I'm say, Dan. Godspeed. Funny dance story, Lisa. Yo, piece that I always always pronounce his name wrong on the queue was like, John, it's con, not Cohen. Okay. All right, Dan, Good to see you. Sorry, but a great guy friend to everyone And super great human being. So rest in peace. Okay. Que con, I >>think the big thing. >>This you wanna get your thoughts, you have to start with you, C and C F. What are they up to? Obviously remote. It's been a terrible year with the pandemic and all the disruptions on DCI change your thoughts on where they are now, this year. >>So you know, it's funny, even though it's remote. Even though reaching people, it's become harder. Uh, you know, we all have to deal with this from our you know, our living room, our office at home. But still, the C in C F is doing what it's been doing for a little while now. So instead of focusing on the technology part of RT world, there are focusing on you know, the community side of it. So they're fighting for inclusivity. They're fighting for diversity, for resilience in terms off their community. And they are really working on making the open source community more accessible, both for end user companies. A swell as offer developers thio enter the space, have their contribution and, you know, make sure that everyone can reap the full benefits off these open source products. >>You know, we talked to Priyanka Sharma and Stephen Augustus, and this was a big theme. There's there's been there's been a lot of engagement online, obviously, even though they have a remote platform, some people are thrilled with it. Some aren't. No one's ever happy these days. It's on the Web. It's always difficult, but the community been activated and a lot more diversity. I covered the big story around. You know, Master slave. The terminology now is gonna go main, you know, terminology and how that's gonna be safer. Also for diversity stem women in tech, This >>has been >>a big theme. I'd love to get your thoughts on that, because I think that's been a very positive thing. Uh, Lisa, you and I have been talking about this for years on the Cube around this diversity peace. What's your thoughts as well, like to get both your reactions on where this directions going. >>Yeah. You know, I think there's a number of things that have been catalyzed this year by the challenges that we've been through and the diversity pushed into the spotlight again. The spotlight is different, and it's really causing change for good. I think it's opening people's minds and perspective, as is, I think, this entire time, you know, it's for events like Yukon and all the other events that were normally getting a lot of airline miles for John and you were not getting. We're sitting at home with our in home studios, but at the same time, the engagement is increasing in every event, I imagine that the great Q. Khan and cognitive community that Dan Cohen has built is on Lee getting bigger and stronger, even though folks are physically separated. That's been just been my observation and something I felt from everything show I've covered every interview I've done that diversity is being raised now to a visibility level that we haven't seen in terms of a catalyzing action. >>You your reaction, Thio. >>No, I completely agree. And I want to add to that where you know, just like Lisa said. You know, we used to fly to these events. We were privileged and lucky to to be there to have the opportunity. But because everything is now digital and virtual, it opens the community up to so many other people who, for whatever reason, weren't able to join in person but are able to join virtually indigenously. So I think you know, even though there's a lot of downsides Thio to this pandemic, this is one of the, you know, the small nuggets of off seeing the sea NCF community opening up to a broader audience. >>Yeah, and that's a great point. You know, we aren't getting the airline miles we're getting Certainly the zoom and the cube mileage remote Lisa, because what's interesting you're saying is is that you know, we're getting more action with him coming in, doing some or hosting yourself, um, Eliana Gesu as well, Others. But we can get people more because remember, the people aren't we're not trying, but so aren't other people that were coming the big names, but also the fresh voices, the new names, names? We don't know yet. I think that's what we're seeing with the remote interviews is that it's one click away from being on the Cube now. So cute. Virtual is 24 73 65 we're gonna continue to do that. I think this is gonna change the makeup of the engagement in the conversation because you're gonna have mawr participation that's going to be highly accelerated. But also, these new voices are gonna bring a positive change. It might upset the hierarchy a little bit in the working groups at the top you, But you know they're open. I mean, I talked with Stephen Augustus. He's totally cool with this Chris, and I check is the same way he's like, Hey, bring on more people. This is the >>This is >>the vibe of the of the Lennox foundations always been. >>It's always been that way. And, you know, going back Teoh to the early open source events in Europe that I went to you. I started doing that as a teenager 15 years ago, and the vibe, you know, hasn't necessarily changed. The makeup of the audience certainly has changed right from it, being dominated by white males. It's totally opened up. And, you know, if we see that happening with the C N C F now as well, I think that's for you know, for the better. I think, um, our community, the i t community in the open source community need that resilience. Need all of those different perspectives from all of you know, different kinds of people from different walks of life with different histories. And I think that only makes the community stronger and more viable in the long run. I >>agree it's that >>open source needs. >>Sorry, it's not thought diversity that I think we're seeing even more now again. Just my perspective is just that the light that this challenging time is shining on, exposing things that are really opportunities and it's I think it's imperative to look at it in that way. But that thought diversity just opens up so many more opportunities that folks that are maybe a little bit more tunnel visioned aren't thinking of. But for businesses, thio and people Thio thrive and move forward and learn from this we need to be able Thio, take into consideration other concepts, other perspectives as we learn and grow. >>Yeah, that's a good point. You know, It was giving a a shout out to Dan Conn. And when I heard the news, I put a clip. One of my favorite clips over the interviews was really me kind of congratulating him on the success of C and C. I think it was, like two years ago or maybe last year. I forget, Um, but I >>was a >>critic of it ever initially, and I was publicly on the record on the Cube. Lisa, you remember, uh, with Stew, who's now having a great new career? Red hat Still and I were arguing, and I was saying, Stew, I think this is gonna fail, because if c. N. C F doesn't balance the end user peace with the logos that we're coming because remember, you about four years ago. It was like a NASCAR logo. Farmers like you know, it's like, you know, everything was like sponsored by Google this and then Amazon came in. You look at the sponsor list. It was like It's the who's who and cloud and now cloud native. It was the industry the entire industry was like, stacked up against reinvent. This is before Amazon made their move. I mean, uh, as your maid, they're moving for Google. Cloud kind of got their footing. So is essentially coop con against a W s. And I said, That's gonna fail, and I had to eat my words, and I did. It was rightfully so, But the balance, the balance between end user projects and vendor was very successful. And that's still plays out today. Lisa. This is important now because you said pandemic de ecosystem still needs to thrive, but there's no face to face anymore. >>What's the >>challenge? What's the opportunity there? I wanna put you on the spot. >>Sure. No, I think I think it's both challenging and opportunistic. I tend to look at it more from an opportunistic view. I think that it forced a lot of us, Even people like myself who worked from home a lot before, when I wasn't traveling for my marketing company or the Cube. You can really have very personal interactions. The people on Zoom and I found that it's connecting people in a deeper way than you even would get in the office. That's something that I actually really appreciate, how it has been an opportunity to really kind of expand relationships or toe open new doors that wouldn't be there if we were able to be studying together physically in person. And it's obviously changing. You know, all the vendors that we work with. It's very different to engage an audience when you are on Lee on camera, and it's something that, as we know, is we work with folks who haven't done it before. That's one of the things that I think a lot of the C suite I talked to Mrs is that opportunity Thio. You know, be on a stage and and be able to show your body language and your energy with your customers and your partners and your employees. But I actually do think that there is what we're doing through Zoom and and all these virtual platforms like the Cube virtual is well, we're opening up doors for a more intimate way that I think the conversations are more authentic. You know, people are have, like, three year old Discover occurs and they're running in the room when they're screaming behind that. That's how things are today. We're learning toe work with that, but we're also seeing people in a more human >>way. Containers Mitch, mainstream and shifting, left the role of security this year. What's your >>take? So I mean, if we're talking about security and nothing else, I think we're at a point where you know, the C N C. F has become mainstream. Its most popular products have become mainstream. Um, because if we're talking about security, there's, you know, not a lot left. And I say that with, you know, a little bit of sarcasm. I don't mean to offend anyone, but if I did, uh, I do apologize, but, you know, security. Even though it is super important again, it means that we have, you know, moved on from talking about kubernetes and and container Management, or we've moved on from storage. Um, it means that the technology part of the C N. C. F. Like the hard work has been done for 80%. We're now into the 20% where we're kind of, you know, dotting the I's and and making sure that we cover all of the bases. And so one of the news sandbox sandbox projects that has been accepted, I think, today even eyes certain Manager Thio to manage certificates Uh, you know, at scale, um, in an automated fashion. And I think that's, you know, 11 prime example of how security is becoming the theme and kind of the conversation at Yukon this year where, you know, we're again seeing that maturity come into play with even with sandbox projects now being able to help customers help end users with, you know, certificates which is, you know, in in the the macro picture a very specific, a very niche thing to be able to solve with open source software. But for every company, this is one of those vital, you know, kind of boilerplate security measures so that the, um the customer and all of their infrastructure remains safe. >>I think you what You're kind of really articulate, and there is the evolution of CNC off much to John Surprises. You said you thought in the very beginning that this wasn't gonna take off. It has. Clearly, Dan Cohen's left a great legacy there. But we're seeing the evolution of that. I do know John. Wanna ask because you did a lot of the interviews here. We've been talking for, what, nine months now on the Cube Virtual about the acceleration of transformation, of every business to go from that. Okay, how do we do this work in this in this weird environment? Keep the lights on. How do we actually be successful and actually become a thriving business? As things go forward, what are some of the things that you heard from the guests regarding? Kobe has an accelerator. >>Well, I think I think a couple of things. Good. Good question. I think it ranges. Right. So the new They had some news that they're trying to announce. Obviously, new survey certifications, K a security certification, new new tech radar support, diversity stats. You know, the normal stuff they do in the event, they gotta get the word out. So that was one thing I heard, but on the overall macro trend. You know, we saw the covert impact, and no >>one's >>afraid of it there. I mean, I think, you know, part of the legacy of these tech communities is they've been online. They're they're used to being online. So it's not a new thing. So I don't think that the work environment has been that much of a disruption to the people in the in the core community. Linux Foundation, for instance, had a great shot with Chris and a sticker on this. He's the CTO. He's been the CEO, brought a senior roles. Um, in fact, they're they're creating a template around C N C f. And then they're announced The Finn Finn Ops Foundation. Uh, Jr store meant, um, is an executive director. That's part of the new foundation. It's a practitioner community. So I think, um, teasing out the conversation is you're gonna see a template model of the C N. C f. Where you're going to see how groups work together. I think what cove? It has definitely shown in some of the things that you guys were saying around how people are gonna be more engaged, more diversity, more access. I >>think you're >>gonna start to see new social constructs emerge around distinct user groups. And I think this Finn ops Foundation is a tell sign around how groups of people going to start together, whether they're cube host coming together on Cube fans and cube alumni. I mean, let me think about the alumni that have been on the Cube. Lisa, you know Tim Hopkins, Sarah Novotny. Chelsie Hightower. Um, Dan Burns, Craig MK Lucky. I mean, we've had everybody on that's now Captain of the industry. So, um, way had capital one we've had, uh, you know, lift on. I mean, it's becoming a really tight knit. Everyone knows each other, and I think now they realize that they have a lot of, uh, power to infect change. And so when you're trying to affect change, um, that's a good thing, and people are pumped about. So I think the big focus was, um, CNC have a successful again. It's there's there's a somber note around Dan cons passing, but I think he had already moved on to a new position. So he was already passed the baton to management, But he did leave a mark, but I think there's Priyanka Sharma. She's doing a great job. People are upbeat and I think the theme is kubernetes. It happened. It's went next level, then it's going next level again and I think that's kind of what people really aren't saying is kind of the public secret, which is okay, this thing's going mainstream. Now you're gonna start to see it in, in, In commercial deployments. You're gonna start to see it scale into organizations. And that's not the cool kids or the Emerging Dev ops crowd. That's I t. So you know you know it's gonna happen is like, Hey, you know, I'm a nice guy, our developer. What is this? It has toe work. Well, that's the big I think I think people weren't talking about That's the most important story. >>I think another element to that John is the cultural shift. You know, we were talking when we talk about Dev ops who was think about speed and I talked to some folks who said, You know, it's it has to be the I T. Cultures on the business cultures coming together in a meaningful way to collaborate in a very new way. Thankfully, we have the technology to enable us to collaborate. But I think that's been another underlying thing that I've heard a lot through recent times. Is that that facilitator of of cultural change, which is always hard to dio? And there's a bit of a catalyst here for organizations to not just keep the lights on. But to be successful, going forward and and and find new ways of delighting their customers, >>we'll get the final word. I just want to say my big take away to the show is and we'll go down the line. I'll start Lisa in Europe, you could go is the usage of cloud and multi cloud is here. Everyone sees that. I think there's a financial aspect going on with security. You're gonna be tied in. I think you see new sets of services coming built on the foundation of the C N C F. But cloud and multi cloud is here. Multi cloud meeting edges. Well, that is definitely on everyone's radar. That was a big theme throughout the interview, so we'll see more of that. Lisa, your takeaways. >>Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think one of the biggest things that I hear consistently is the opportunities that have been uncovered, the the collaboration becoming tighter and folks having the opportunity to engage more with events like Coop Con and C and C F. Because of this virtual shift, I think there's only ah lot of positive things that we're going to stay to come. >>Yep. Yeah, my point of view is I mean, open source is validated completely right? It's a viable model to build around software. On the one hand, on the other hand, the C and C s role in making that open source community broadly accessible and inclusive is, I think, the biggest win Thio look back at at the last year. >>Well, I'm super excited for moving on to the next event. It's been great pleasure. Lisa. You you guys are great co host Virtual Cube. Thanks for participating. And we'll see you next time. Thank you. Okay, that's the cubes. Coverage of Coop con 2020 cloud Native con Virtual This the cube Virtual. We are the cube. Virtual. Thanks for watching

>>Hello, everyone. This is not appropriate to lapse of America. I'm going to talk about the motivation. For zero knowledge goes back to the heart off, winding down identity, ownership, community and control. Much of photography exists today to support control communications among individuals in the one world. We also consider devices as extensions of individuals and corporations as communities. Here's hoping you're not fit in this picture. What defines the boundary off an individual is the ability to hold a secret with maybe, it says, attached to the ownership. Off some ethic, we want the ability to use the secret to prove ownership of this asset. However, giving up the secret itself essentially announced ownership since then, anybody else can do the same. Dear Knowledge gives us tools to prove ownership without revealing the secret. The notion of proving ownership off a digital object without revealing it sounds very paradoxical outside the model off. So it gives us a surprise when this motion was formalized and constructed by Goldwasser Miccoli and back off in the late eighties, we'll focus on the non interactive >>version of Siri, a knowledge our music in the >>stock, which was first developed by blow Tillman and Peggy, where the general it can span multiple rounds of communications music only allows a single message to be trusted. No, let's get into some technical details for musics. The objective of for music is to show that an object X, which you can think off as the public footprint, often asset, belonging clan and the language without revealing its witness. W, which you can think off as the Future Analytics team consists off three algorithms, video proof and very. The key generation process is executed by a trusted third party and the very opposite, resulting in a common >>random string, or steers, which is made public. The >>true vendor produces a proof by based on the CIA's X and the very fine with the checks. The proof against X and accepts or rejects music off course has to satisfy some properties. We needed to be correct, which basically says that when everyone follows the protocol correctly on, so we can expect, we need to be thought, which says that a false statement cannot be proven. The channel is a trickier properly to form this. How do we capture the intuition behind saying that the proof there is no knowledge of the witness. One way to capture that is to imagine their tools is the real world where the proof is calculated. Using the witness on there's a simulation worth where the proof is calculated without a witness. To make this possible, the simulator may have some extra information about the CIA's, which is independent off the objectives. The property then requires that it is not possible to effectively distinguish these words Now. It is especially challenging to construct music's compared to encryption signature schemes, in particular in signature schemes. The analog off the Hoover can use a secret, and in any case, the analog off the very fire can use a secret. But in is it's none of the crew layer and the verifier can hold a secret. Yeah, in this talk, I'm going to focus on linear subspace languages. This class is the basis of hardness. >>Assumptions like GH and deliver >>on has proved extremely useful in crypto constructions. This is how we express DD it and dealing as linear software. We will use additive notation on express the spirit logs as the near group actions on coop elements. You think the syntax we can write down Deitch on dealing Jupiter's very naturally a zoo witness sector times a constant electric so we can view the language as being penetrated by a constant language. Metrics really was hard by many groups in our instructions. What does it mean? S while uh, Standard group allows traditions and explain it off by in your group also allows one modification In such groups, we can state various in yourself facing elections. The DDN is the simplest one. It assumes that sampling a one dimensional space is indistinguishable from something full professional. The decisional linear assumption assumes the theme from tours is three dimensional spaces generalizing the sequence of Presumptions. The scaling the resumption asks to distinguish between gay damaged examples and full it and >>examples from a K plus one national space. >>Right, So I came up with a breakthrough. Is the construction in Europe 2008 in particular? There? Music for many years Off Spaces was the first efficient >>construction based on idiots and gear. Structurally, >>it consisted of two parts Our commitment to the witness Andre question proof part and going how the witness actually corresponds to the object. The number of elements in the proof is linear in the number >>of witnesses on the number of elements in the object. >>The question remains to build even shorter visits. The Sierras itself seemed to provide some scoop Rosa Russo fix. See how that works for an entire class of languages? Maybe there's a way to increase proof efficiency on the cost of having had Taylor Sierra's for each year. This is what motivates quality and after six, where we let the solace depend on the language itself. In particular, we didn't require the discrete logs of the language constants to generate this, Yes, but we did require this constant student generated from witness sample distributions. This still turns out to be sufficient for many applications. The construction achieved a perfect knowledge, which was universally in the sense that the simulator was independent. However, soundness is competition. So here's how the construction differed from roots high at a very high level, the language constants are embedded into the CIA s in such a way that the object functions as it's only so we end up not needing any separate commitment in the perfect sense. Our particular construction also needed fewer elements in the question proof, as there On the flip side, the CIA's blows up quadratic instead of constant. Let's get into the detail construction, which is actually present with this script. Let the language apparently trace by Giovanni tricks with the witness changing over time, we sat down and matrices >>D and B with appropriate damages. >>Then we construct the public series into what C. S. D is meant to be used. By the way. On it is constructed by >>multiplying the language matrix with D and being worse, Sierra's V is the part that is meant to be used by the very fair, and it is constructed using details be on be embedded in teaching. >>Now let's say you're asked to computer proof for a candidate X with fitness number we computed simply as a product of the witness with CSP. The verification of the truth is simply taking with the pairing off the candidate and the proof with the Sierras. Seeming threats is equal to zero. If you look carefully. Sierra's V essentially embedded in G to the kernel of the Matrix, owned by the language metrics here and so to speak. This is what is responsible for the correctness. The zero knowledge property is also straightforward, >>given the trapdoor matrices, D and B. Now, >>when corrected journalism relatively simple to prove proving illnesses strictly The central observation is that, given CSP, there is still enough entropy. >>India and me to >>random I seriously in particular Sierra's we Can we expand it to have an additional component with a random sample from the kernel allows it. This transformation is purely statistical. No, we essentially invented idiots are killing their talent in the era of kernel part in this transform sitting within show that an alleged proof on a bad candidate and we used to distinguish whether a subspace sample was used for a full space >>sample was used at the challenge. The need >>to have the kernel of the language in this city. That's the technical >>reason why we need the language to come from a witness. Sample. >>Uh, let's give a simple illustration >>of the system on a standard Diffie Hellman, which g one with the hardness assumption being idiot. >>So the language is defined by G one elements small D, E and F, with pupils off the phone due to the W. After that ugly, the CIA is is generated as follows example D and >>B from random on Compute Sierra speak as due to the day after the being verse and Sierra's V as G to do to do the big on day two of the video. The >>proof of the pupil >>detail that I do after the bill is computed using W. As Sierra Speed race to the party. I know that this is just a single element in the group. The verification is done by bearing the Cooper and the proof with the Sierras VMS and then checking in quality. The >>similar can easily compute the proof using trapdoors demand without knowing that what we are expecting. People leave a Peter's die and reduce the roof size, the constant under a given independent of the number of witnesses and object dimensions. Finally, at Cryptocurrency 14 we optimize the proof toe, one group >>element under the idiots. In both the works, the theorists was reduced to linear sites. The >>number of bearings needed for ratification was also industry in years. This is the crypto Ford in construction in action, the construction skeleton remains more or less the famous VR turkey. But the core observation was that many of the Sierras elements could were anomaly. Comite. While still >>maintaining some of this, these extra random items are depicted in red in this side. >>This round of combination of the Sierras elements resulted in a reduction of boat, Bruce says, as also the number of clearings required for education in Europe in 2015 kills, and we came up with a beautiful >>interpretation of skill sets based on the concept of small predictive hash functions. >>This slide is oversimplified but illustrated, wanting, uh, this system has four collecting >>puzzle pieces. The goodness of the language metrics okay again and a key Haider when >>the hidden version of the key is given publicly in the Sears. Now, when we have a good object, the pieces fit together nicely into detectable. However, when we have a bad object, the pieces no longer fit and it becomes >>infeasible to come up with convincing. Zero knowledge is demonstrable by giving the key to the simulator on observing that the key is independent of the language metrics. >>Through the years, we have extended >>enhanced not mind to be six system, especially with our collaborators, Masayuki Abby Koko Jr. Born on U. >>N. Based on your visits, we were able to construct very efficient, identity based encryption structure, resulting signatures >>public verifiable CCS, secure encryption, nine signatures, group signatures, authorities, key extremes and so on. >>It has also been gratifying to see the community make leaps and bounces ideas and also use queuing visits in practical limits. Before finishing off, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about >>some exciting activities going on Hyper ledger, which is relevant for photographers. Hyper >>Leisure is an open source community for enterprise. Great. It's hosted by the minute formation on enjoys participation from numerous industry groups. Uh, so difficult funded to efforts in Africa, we have versa, which is poised to be the crypto home for all. Blocking it and practice a platform for prospecting transactions are part of the legs on the slide here, >>we would love participation from entity inference. So >>that was a brief history of your analytics. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. And thanks for listening

>>Yeah, >>from the Cube Studios in Palo Alto and Boston. It's the Cube covering IBM. Think brought to you by IBM. >>Welcome back to IBM. Think 2020. The global experience. My name, Stupid man. And happy to welcome to the program. Aaron Bobick, who is the vice president and chief design officer for the IBM Cloud Data and AI portfolios. Thank you so much for joining us. >>Thank you, Steven. Great to >>be here. Alright. So I always love talking to design people. My background is engineering. I said on the Cube a couple of times I feel they didn't really teach us in school enough about design. We all know on the consumer side, when you have >>a >>phenomenal technology and beautiful designed together, it's an amazing experience. So you've got a brought purview. You've had a very diverse background. Help us understand. You know what a chief design office they're across, you know, cloud and Data and ai is responsible for >>so in a in a just my job is to really ensure that we design and develop usable and meaningful experiences for our users. Finds customers and partners in the little mawf cloud in the eye both evolving technologies. Um, adoption challenges here and there, and our job is to simplify >>the complex and the network. Okay, that's awesome. You know, I think back, you know, early web days, you know, we were happy if we just had a u I let alone Didn't think about the ux experience there. So you know, what are some of the important things? You know, what? What's IBM looking at? To make sure that that user interface is something that is Yeah. >>So I'll take a step back. And question is doing Say that, you know, in the sounding times while we're still figuring out new ways stood up So to get work done and really get the essence off being more productive design is there to help figure out a solution to these human, because at the end of it, design is really an expression of intent and intend to help solve the problem and overcome everyday challenges. So, you know, be at IBM is basically focusing on helping our users and partners and customers be more productive. And the feeling is that design has become really important to IBM, not just IBM does. Other landed companies are having great advantages. So if I just call it a few studies in a recent guard from the study found that 89% of companies that they would focus and you extend them apart. So this is about differentiation by design the second Forrester Little study, and they found that 70% of projects fail because of poor us, and that's a huge number. There's also city by the GM of the Design Management Institute that says that design that companies are poor home S and P 500 by 20. So all in all this is that design is now a very important aspect of how we go to market, and it's essential. The good news. IBM has always been part of Indiana money for ponderous Thomas. What Jr said, Good design is good business, though We're in it for the long run. >>Yeah, obviously a long history. There are over 100 years of focus on that. So one of the big themes we've heard the last couple of years, you know, see X. That's about that customer experience and not only the external customers but the internal customers we're talking about, you know, support agents and the like. So how is IBM making sure that it is on the leading edge for the >>great questions to over the last? I would say a good 10 years. We really work hard to develop a culture off designing, design, thinking and close by IBM. Whether it's product development, the services we offer support. We work with customers pretty much every touch point of the user has with us. Design has had an influence in it. To get to where we are today, we had to go hire a whole bunch of formally trained designers. We're working across more than 50 plus global design studio to bring in diversity and part of an idea. And at the end of the day, it's not about this confidence in craft. It's also what the baby work. So we had to hire designers, but we also changing the way IBM offers across organizations work. The level of the strain were called the Enterprise Design Thinking Framework, which is essentially our take a human centered design. Build a scale for the enterprise, so the enterprise is a key element here. The practices we've developed using those frameworks helps our team collaborate better keeping the users and their need at the center of everything we do. But it's not just for us. We also developed it for generally everyone. So if anyone wants to take it up, they could try IBM dot com slash design thinking and give it a shot. And through all of these, we have managed to see some incredible progress internally across organizations with alignment and go to market. But we've also seen some great progress that internally as well, case in point over 20 international designer words for design in the Enterprise. But with the last two years across the portfolio, So it's been a fun ride and our focus for customer experience because the endpoints, all the touchpoints has really given us >>a lot of minutes. Well, congratulations on the award is there. We know enterprises are particular and challenging there. They're not necessarily the first to deploy something new. But one of the big discussions we've had for years when you talk about Cloud and AI is a skill set and training. So what are some of the unique challenges that you have from a design stand point in the enterprise? >>I think the answer to your question is in your question, and it comes down to the enterprise. Enterprise is unique in many different ways, right? First of all, it's about mission critical needs, and second is about productivity. Our minds and the users are coming to us to help them solve these massive, complex challenges and problems, from data management to automation to modernization, to being on the cloud or adopting AI. They're really looking detained, the way they work and at scale. This means that we, as designers and at IBM, have to really take the time to understand the users, to see what their pain points are detected environments and the context of the working so that IBM can ultimately >>help solve the conflict. >>No, that's one part second because it's in the enterprise but also dealing with the fact that technology is evolving at a very rapid pace. Thinking about containers, ai Blockchain, you name it and we know that in order to meet the needs of this modern day age workers, we really need to think out of the box and be a little bit ahead of the curve designed for collaboration and the adoption of these emerging technologies without adding a huge learning curve, but that's a challenge as well. How do we adopt technologies without adding learning curves? So as a profession in design, we have to keep up with it, adopt and constantly lead with innovation. In essence, you know, designing for the enterprise brings interesting and unique challenges, and IBM is >>up for it. Well, you know, it sounds great to talk about just having a design that is super easy. And people get, um I'm wondering if you have any, any tips that you could have out there because, you know, I know myself. I'm always Frank, talk to other people, understand what they're doing. And sometimes it's like, Oh, well, today I learned this, and I wish I had learned this two years ago because, boy, you saved me, you know, an hour, a week of my time when I did this. And it's one of things I enjoy doing is trying to help people with short cuts or new ways of doing things. So we get set in our ways when we learn a new technology that tends to be where it fossilized in our brain, and it's upto look at something with fresh eyes and say, Oh, I got an update G. Maybe I should press that button and or float over and to understand what it does. Is there any any guidance that you can have? Is how do you make it simple and intuitive yet overcoming all of the legacy that we have when when we come into it with what interfaces were used? >>I do think that designers have this unique talent of being able to connect the dots, and that's our superpower. So in terms of tips I would take get to know your users get to know them really, really well, think about what exactly are their blockers and then think about technology and see how it can solve that over to connect the dots. So just to give an example. And I was talking about sort of design being broader than this interface design, you know in IBM started reacting to over 19. We need a lot of things. One of the things we did was we kinda defined solution to improve human computer interaction, very using sort of AI technologies like Watson Assistant and Children's Hospitals to help answer the huge number of questions coming in around 19. So from that standpoint, design is about beyond interfaces. And I feel if we take a step back and figure out, what problem are we trying to solve here? And how do we ensure that the users mental model off the things that they used to using in the everyday use, like 20 maps? How can you bring in those innovations back in the enterprise? That issue? >>Okay, you mentioned technologies are changing so fast, you know, AI containers loud. How's your team keeping up with all of this? You know, the pace of change and stop for a drop. You know, we're in S T I C D model these days. So what's the role of the designer in both? Keeping up with the new things and making sure that you know you're helping the user along the way. >>Fortunately, IBM we have a few advantages in having a broader organization called IBM Research. And IBM Research is a little bit forward facing, and they try to predict the uptake of technology that we have a little bit of a heads up on stage now that is a quantum computing, and such as Well, we got enough up there to as a designer. The inherent trade for designers to be curious and Barbara curiosity is to make sure that we learned, and we can combine them and instead of you bring in a sponge. And I think the fact that designers have this golden acid of empathy is very tender and used, and these superpowers to work with designers in other parts of the business, depending the doctor. But how can we not only solve? The problem is we see it but also solve the problems that are not visible. So the later needs of users. So I feel in a lot of different ways. Designers, you know, >>I >>have to be curious there to solve complex problems, and they have to keep up with technology. It's decimated. >>Yeah, I'm curious. It's exciting times. What excites you about the field of design these days? >>I had no Let me take a step back. Your question at the heart of it. I believe that I'm a designer because I believe we can design solutions that impacts people's lives. So in some ways we are adding to a value of human life, and that's what you mean to design and especially in enterprise design, is about that complexity if the messiness off, complex infrastructure and business use cases and localization and globalization is a really hairy problem. So I feel from an intellectual standpoint, this gives me a way to use my that are curious mind as well as my expertise to help solve this problem. So that's what drew me into >>delight. Excellent. Well, so much going on at IBM Think this week I want to give you the final word. What message do you want to share with IBM users, customers and business partners? >>Thank you. Stupid opportunity. Of course. I want to say thank you. Thank you for believing in us for being a North Star. You are The reason why we've invested so much in design and user experience really make our lives better and your willingness to sort of work alongside us every step of the way. It's really appreciate it. I mean, we tend to really feel that you see with us, so help us innovate, help us bring in great experiences that help you get your business are so on that note. If I could do a little shout out to want to be for our customers and prospects here who are listening in the joining on the user experience program. So we can co create experiences with you to solve your problems and hopefully build solutions that you love. Check out the link IBM that based on these experiences, the easy sign up and the second thing that popped a little bit of a user research like invite you to join in on the research about your journey here is that it's still involving field. I understand we're all going to challenges in adopting AI. Let's all learn, share and help each other and infusing AI in your enterprise. Thank you for being >>part of our innovation journey. Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing with our community. This update love the fusion of technology and design co creations. One of our favorite words when we talk about this part of the model that we do on the Cube. So thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. All right. Lots more coverage from IBM. Think 2020 The global experience. I'm stupid, man. And thank you for watching the Cube. >>Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah

>> from Bahrain. It's the Q covering AWS Public sector Bahrain brought to you by Amazon Web service is >> over and welcome back to the Cube. Special coverage here in by rain in the Middle East for Amazon Web service is eight of US Summit. I'm John for the Cube our second year, where cloud computing has changed in the landscape. It's changing the entrepreneur equation. It's changing the money equation, and Fintech is very popular. Next guest. Special guests. Ideal worrying. Who's the Deputy Group? CEO Bank, ABC. A legend in the industry. Also the founder. The Fintech Forum Coming up on your fourth big event, But you're keynoting here at Teresa Carlson and A W s Summit car on digital only bank. Welcome to the Cube. Thank you, John. Thank you. Pleasure to speak to you today, so I got a lot to talk about, but digital only bank. This is a really special time in history. Now we're living in a digital error and the digital is driving business change and digital business is on the on the plate of every major executive in the world. How are you enabling digital business, >> John? The way, The way I look at things that two years ago I have went to my board. I said, I wanna disrupt the bank. I want to develop a business digital strategy. And to do that, we have three pictures. We have to run the band first and transform the back. To do that, we have to continue investing on modernizing the bank. Then you evolve the bank investment by creating new product. And finally you just hop the back and how you disrupt the bank. And she's using the digital highway and introducing the cloud computing on bringing a new tools wishes changed the framework and changed the mechanics of the bank. So we created way are not a digital only bank which will be going live in two months time. We launch a wallet on all that sitting on our eco systems it in the cloud the very brave and bold move. But I can tell you, without that you will lose the transformation. Banking today is different than they're gonna be banking of tomorrow. Yeah, we have to start getting into the journey of transformation. >> Bold moves require bold leadership obscenity. You are that this is hard. It sounds easy on paper. You got people to convince. I agree. Changes hard people. Cultural change. How did you do it? What >> was the great question? John are started that in December 2016 I went to my board when the frantic start moving heating our partnership. Look, I want to be on the transformation. Jr and I worked for about 6 to 9 months in greeting our niche with the board unit. Explain to them frantic abroad. Them actually a special fintech speakers guidelines. So I invested heavily. I would always take holder board level people, groups Vo and tell him about the impact of digitization. New cannot afford distant idea. Feel distant. I didn't do nothing. He parked the chain was moved. We'll go without you. So what you're saying is that investment is awareness. You have to explain to him why you cannot treat fintech with the threat. You have to embrace it. >> I love that. I love that leadership. It takes time to nurture and unset the table. Absolutely. And then understand the cloud only strategy. And then you got to sell it and then you gotta implement. These are the new dynamic >> fears fears. John is that most of the stakeholder. They think of cloud as secure and the spending of times They're not security. Instead, he was spending the time questioning spend their time to improve the security with Amazon. We are partners Now we sit with them and doing a demon years. And I tell you, I'm putting all my critical banking system on the ground. >> When you talk to Amazon, you're a bank. Thanks. Have money. Thanks can be act. There were people who worried about all this. Trust is important opportunity. What made you decide to go a W s? >> There's a very first of all. When I decided to individuals with my decision, I looked at you guys, the investment you made it in security, the investment you make or not. Indeed, I looked you committed to the region. I was someone my neighbor you guys have invested that made a bold move to be in Bahrain That did a lot, picked a lot of boxes for me and that was an important move from AWS. And I tell you many regulators today they were going to cloud eventually. So it's very important that anybody is Bridget himself in the >> region. But we love a W s because we covered them. And in depth is part of our media business. And we look at disruptions to and I want to get your thoughts on fintech disruption. We were talking before we came on camera about some key times in history where disruption happened in trade. That is a tale sign for what's happening in that. Tell the story. >> All right, let me tell you the story. In 1953 the first word cargo ship sent from New York to Houston. That chip change the word made history. Why? Because it has the container. So you could supplier trade, sending through the container to different destinations. You know, before how you used to be put them in the trade through It was a nightmare. That disruption have actually improved the globalization of increased trade business. Today all this equipment here comes Chicago comes through container and each container is labelled through computer. So we re vision today Fintech made the same making same disruption in banking on my notions, everything >> and wears a similarity. Scale >> matter, united disruption. This came a volume betrayed should become disrupted. Everybody start using your container. The business the globalization fintech, globalization, skin awareness. So what? The way I see similar to that we had a disruption. Trade become more familiar. Lifestyle has improved. You can now put your house. Your TV is coming From where? From? Your Maybe >> all the cargo containers have changed. Shipping fintech is changing banking, banking >> and lifestyle. You got it. You got a job. >> And so now, well, ironically, two containers or changing the cloud Because containers and kubernetes and frustration, This is about software. That's right. Software money has been a term kicked around. When you hear the word software defined currency software to find money, what do you think of? >> Look, at the end of the day, who writes software people? Human. So basically, the thinking has become from you and I for the people that sit and think about the codes. Yeah, programmer the corner. But there's somebody behind it thinking So you have a thinker on this thing? Got Arjun you the word not the coda. >> Big moves and Finn ticker happening. I want to get your thoughts on leadership in this world where cloud has pretty much instant benefits if you execute properly. Absolutely. There's also architectural thinking. So the word business architecture is not something that they teach in business school or sometimes has to be learned over time to operate a business and go have a growth strategy in changing technological landscapes requires a business. Architecture has to have a ballistic systems thinking this is hard. You've done that for multiple years. What if you learned what were some of the challenges that you came? >> You have to look at when you're running a big enterprise. You have a lot of investment around the world, and a lot of duplication are out of inefficiency at the leader. Money to show my steak stakeholder efficiency. I want our own better shop. Now, if technology can help me to do that, why not? You'll have to jump onto the wagon? Yeah, yeah, I cannot sit idle, and I see a better efficient shop but bank running more efficiently. So I looked with technology addition to disrupt the way I work, but positive disruption. Yeah. The main thing is that the disruption should be a catalyst for a positive change. So what I learned I learned efficiency would the digital disruption with the cloud today and instead of putting 25,000 servants to serve my 18 countries. I put in the cloud. You done it. You know the economy is Ken Jordan and the shaving >> the flywheels. Amazing. The operational efficiency are amazing. As an executive, you managed to results at the end of the day. Business is business. Results matter. How are your results? You gotta make money >> at the bank. It I have a good show. Uh, results. >> Got to make some money. How do you see that? Evolving digital only business. What's your strategy? What's your roadmap? For? How you see the money making kicking >> in, John, that our clients becoming sophisticated. My corporate client today if I don't deliver in a digital solution through his statement, give the payment, Foster. He's gonna go for a fintech company because today, front companies are competing with me eating my lunch. So I have to prove, if my client becoming digital Chevy more sophisticated, I cannot sit and watch. So I have to invest heavily. You make sure my client is satisfied giving the right cash management to transaction banking. All this the book payments or this have to be alternated. So I have to be continue looking after my client. That's where the money >> are you happy where you are, Where you're at right now? Are you happy with work? >> There's always room for improvement. I will continue. Invest on Are we innovate because you cannot stop. I mean, look, I'm a zone today. Would they stop? >> No, no, they're not stopping >> way. We need to continue. >> What's your areas that you think about for the next five years? Fintech. What are an important area? >> You know what? I think Joe's gonna affect our lifestyle. A I artificial intel. I feel way only seen the beginning. We have seen nothing out of the way. A bank, ABC. We just lost our first digital employees. Uh, her name is Fatima, and we will be coming live in November. I tell you, this is the beginning. I feel artificial intelligence is gonna affect our work force in the world. >> Tell me more about this digital employees concept. >> Well, that until passionate about what we worked with a company called So machine in you Zeeland on there are the same people who actually invented you've seen the movie of it all. Yeah. So the same people actually design movie and avatar work. We work with them to create a footman. Fatma is already being trained. Do help a new Crying Toe Bank, ABC. The Tissue Bank Open account. Two shoes. A correct credit cards for you Help you and also to be able to have a chat with her to be able to ask you a question. Jerry. A question about the Bahrain about the population but banking. It's a journey on. The journey's so far being successful, and I continue. If you ask me the question in a year's time, I would tell you probably thought it would be somebody else. >> This is helping augment the experience for your customers. That's the goal, >> absolutely. And from experience with my consumer. >> Okay, I want to change the subject and talk about the fact you're the founder of the Fintech Forum. You've had your third edition for the coming up. Talk about the event. What's the purpose? >> Uh, in in about 2016 December, I went to them sentimental by rain Governor and I said, We want to sponsor a frantic conference so self like impressed that immediately and British idea. And then I went back to my board my good CEO, I said, We want to sponsor the fish interconference on my papers at the time, the warning Because at that time in nearly 2017 we hear different around the region. Nobody actually sat there and say, Was the interactive printed on banking? You see, other victim. So I launched the first winter conference Was its success 2nd 1 also a sex. And the 3rd 1 was a kook because we put the top speaker on the world. And now people are judging me for the 4th 1 event business Now. No way about Responsive Bank. NBC's was the sole sponsor. >> That's exciting. And I think these events are changing, too. The fact that you're getting into events, you're contributing your knowledge, your also sponsoring providing some working capital >> contribution as a bank. International bank. At least I can do to support my reign infrastructure in the vision in a fintech. Sorry, >> no problem. Think out of the water. I want to say I want to get your thoughts on something. I feels important. I said this last year and the year before, when Amazon launches a new region, yeah, it creates a revitalisation. It has computing power has all those things. It's a center point of innovation. How do you see that same thing? And what's, um, things that people might not know about the Amazon relationship to the area? Because all this innovation and enablement fintech societal change the government ministries are coming online here by rain. Entrepreneurs are creating value. They're getting funded this liquidity banks, air going fintech A modernization wave is happening with a new generation of young people and existing businesses. This is a digital complete modernisation. Your thoughts on on all this digital transformation Societal at a societal level with Amazon >> Amazon already contributed to the digital economy was in it in the world. And I've seen already the impact this part of the world. The fact that this conference is summer today I can't answer your question. Look at the contribution. You have about 2000 people here look the excitement of what to bring into the region. I have seen people today from Chaudhary from Kuwait, from Morocco, from Amman, from Egypt here. So you are actually building the knowledge excitement and you also have been people to understand the ecosystem and what was missing. So what you doing any bill Us now actually investing heavily on educating awareness of the digital destruction and digital economy. You are participating in the digital economy. I mean, also today I heard from Malaysia. Very good. Exactly. Sponsoring a program a degree with University of Bahrain doesn't pass just free. So this is basically you Continue doing that. And you find AWS is already effective. Life like the clock is gonna be so I think it's body is already contributing the digital economy worldwide. >> You know, I'm fascinated. I'd love to have more conversations with you on this, Maybe at your forum. But one thing I want to get your thoughts on is with digital collaboration is not just face to face. You meet people here from different countries, but then we go back to our place is but we're still together digitally. So the scale of cloud computing and digital is impacting not just money collaboration. What's your vision on how collaboration and the role of people are going to play in this new dynamic? John, >> if you have asked me three years ago our video I was a threat with winter company with your banker. They're gonna eat my lunch. But today you realize with time the only way you can move on trust through collaborating with the company. That's why today I'm sitting with AWS sitting with other victim basically breaking people. I know my banks, but I don't know how to build a clock ticking. So I caught a break. I don't know how to move on a new Sophia or so I go with. I want to use it to get that. You see what I mean? >> Yeah, I think you have another good point that we reported on many times. And that is that when you collaborate with these technologies, it makes the domain expertise and the data that you >> have >> more intellectual, more emotional property because, you know, banking intimately. You have data, you have customers. That's your intellectual property. You could use that faster with the resource. This is a new competitive advantage >> with analytics would get the science. The data is the new order, if you should, but you need the tours. You need another unique data scientist. And when you have the distant scientist dental become than yours. >> So he'll thank you for sharing your awesome insights here and let you hear about rain. Really appreciated. Congratulations. Tino speaking. Bank, ABC. Thank you. Going all digital. Bold moves. Bold leadership. Thank you. Thank you very much. We're here in the Cube. We're live broadcasting here and by rain. 80. This summit. I'm John Ferrier. Thanks for watching.

>> live from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage. It's the Cube covering Veum World 2019. Brought to you by VM Wear and its ecosystem partners. >> Hey, welcome back here and live here in Mosconi North. The Emerald 2019 Cube Live coverage on Shopping Day Volante Jr Jr. Who's here? EVP general manager, Telco and Edge of Cloud for Vienna. Where Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. I know you're super busy. We don't have a lot of time. Get right to it. Um five g a big part of the key. No discussion that's gonna enable a whole bunch of Pakal the pregame show pre gaming not even talk about that. Also. Telco on the Edge Computing Big part Michael Dell said, Edges the future Now these air to emerging areas for you guys. What's the positioning? What's the update? >> No, absolutely. I mean, if you look a tw telecom infrastructure. For the longest time, telcos have played a role just as pure basic connectivity providers. And with five g coming on board, they finally have an opportunity to break out of that and redefine the cloud off the future. So for us the big opportunity around five g is not just the better provisioning off like Higher Man With Service is to consumer for voice and data buy the whole set off new enterprise service is that can be provided on top of this five g network. And in order to be able to do that, you really need to go in with a virtualized telco Cloud architecture. Underneath that, and so we are working with carriers globally now preparing them for five G with an architecture that's going to help them deploy. New service is faster for both their consumer as well as enterprise. >> Going to be the white knight at, so to speak. For these telcos because they've been struggling for years over the top and any kind of differentiates service is even in the network layer. Exactly. I've had tons of rack and stack machine, so they're after their well, well stacked up in terms of computer storage. Also connectivity to the edge. That's the back hall. So you have back haul, which is connectivity. Companies that have massive expertise in scale but fumbling in operational cloud natives that >> by not just that, but I also think that having the idea off on application platform that allows them to go and deploy service is faster and then decide whether they're just going to play at the network connectivity level or at the application tear or a full SAS tear. These are all options that are open to them now with this notion off. Telco five G coupled with an NFI and cloud telco cloud infrastructure. Underneath that and never before have they had this option to doing that. And this is now open to them >> and the cloud native is there greenfield for AP supporter having applications on top of it. Exact icing on the cake, right? >> Exactly, Exactly. And so they're all looking at core architectures and then, potentially, their radio architectures now all being opened up toe deploying new service is that are much faster to provisions and then extending that to EJ and >> five G's deploying. So we know it's out there. So it is pre game is Pat, Guzman said. You know, not even an inning Yet in the metaphor of baseball innings, I >> gotta ask you get my phone. That's not that's fake ill. I know it >> did that with four g to >> skeptic e stands for evolution, which is coming soon. >> That's vaporware for tell Coke language. The surface area is going to radically get bigger with this capability. Yeah, security's gonna be baked in. This is the number one concern for io ti. And more importantly, industrial I ot We've been reporting on silicon angle dot com. This is a national security issue because we're under cyber attacks. Town's getting locked out with ransomware critical infrastructure exposed. We're free country, and I want to be free. We don't lock down. So you have security built into this new promiscuous landscape that is called the coyote Edge. Because you wanna have no perimeter. You want the benefits of cloud. But one whole malware is in there. One take over physical device could cost lives. >> Yeah, there's a big concern. Yeah. What's your thoughts? Yeah, No. So I think there >> are two ways of looking at it. One is the way you looked at it in terms of the security perimeter expanding and then us making sure that we have the right level off infrastructure security baked in to enable this to be an easier, manageable security architecture. This is sort of the pitch you heard from Mia Mary, even in the context of our acquisition of carbon black and how we're thinking about baking security into the infrastructure, the other way of looking at this is if you think about some of the concerns around providers off telecom infrastructure today and how there might be or might not be security back doors. This is happening in today's hardware infrastructure. Okay, so in fact, I would argue that a sick software defined architecture, er, actually ends up providing you greater levels of security. Because what you now have is the option off running all of these network functions as secured as software workloads in a policy envelope that you can introspect. And then you can decide what kind of security you want to deploy on what kind of workload. >> That's an innovative approach. But it doesn't change much, really, from an infrastructure standpoint, does it? Or does it? >> No, it does, >> because now, instead of having a hardware box where you have to worry, I mean, if it's a close, hard red box and you don't quite know what is happening there, the question is, is that more secure than a infrastructure radio running the software that you can actually introspect. I would argue that the software defined approach is more secure than having a hardware box that you don't know. >> I would buy the premise that certainly we know that supply chain concerned. You know the speculation Super Micro, which never was proved. >> It doesn't matter who the vendor is or what the country is. It really is a concern in terms of not being able to introspect what has happened Going inside >> for my tea shop. I'm running VM where operating I want developers. So now you're going to tell Coz you revitalize their business model? They had a rule out appy. Now what did you see? That connecting is gonna be connective tissue between >> I'll think about it. I didn't feel goto a telco. We look at really three stakeholders in there. One is I t the second Is there be to be or enterprise facing business and then the 3rd 1 is their core and access network or the CTO. We're now have a value proposition of having a uniform architecture across all three stakeholders with the uniform ability to create applications and drop it on top of each of these infrastructures with the ability to manage and secure these again in a uniform way, not just that, but also make this work well with other cloud infrastructures private, hyper scale, public as well as EJ. >> That's table stakes. You have to do that. These jokers have to operate whatever >> well it is, But it's not. I mean, if you think about what the infrastructure off a tailcoat today is, it's far from that, because it's it's sort of a closed environment. You can't access anything from a telco environment in order to go build an application to it, and it does not resemble anything like any club >> you could enable Telco. Just I'm just kind of thinking connecting the dots here real time in the Cube. If I'm a telco, hell, I'll take that VM wear on a deli and see model. Make me a cloud and I'll sell Cloud Service is to markets that kind of >> it is. Actually it's a very important part of our business model because most telcos would not move their own infrastructure from a network standpoint onto a public cloud. But they are eagerly awaiting the ability to operate their own network as a cloud, and if they can have somebody manage that for them, then that is very much within the >> you're enabling. An increase in the number of cloud service provides potentially the paint on the makeup of the telco tier one tier two tier three size. Pretty much >> potentially. I mean, it's taking an existing operator and having them operate in a more agile way and potentially increasing anew form off a cloud service >> provided telcos wouldn't move into the public cloud because of they want to control. And the cost is that right or it's >> mostly control. It's not about cost. It's about taking What is your sort of coordinating for, ah, packet corps or for a radio network? Yeah, and there is also an angle around competition, I think telcos our what in about the Amazons of the world and the azure eyes of the world potentially becoming a service provided >> themselves. And that's what I wanted to ask you about the business impact of all this discussion you guys were having is, you know, the cost for bits coming down. The amount of data is increasing faster. You got over the top providers just, you know, picking off the telcos. Telcos can't compete their infrastructures of so hardened. Will this all change that? >> Absolutely So. I think that it has the potential to changing all that. I don't think all the telcos will take advantage of it. Some off them might end up being more traditional and sort of sticking to where they were. But for those that are willing to make the leap, I mean, as an example, Vodafone is a customer that has actually gone in with this architecture with us. A. T and T is working with us with the Vela Cloud software from via Mary bringing a new form off branch computer branch connectivity through SD man. So these are all examples of telcos that are actually leading the >> charter. But if they don't lean in, they have this vision there either. Well, it's either because they're protected by their local government or they're going to go out of business. No, I would >> agree. I mean, it's sort of silly from our standpoint to be talking about five G and not thinking about this as the architecture for five, right? I mean, if you only focus on radio waves and your wireless network that's like a part of the problem, but you really need to have the ability to deploy these agile service's. Otherwise, you could get killed by >> the O. T. T. So how do you compete against the competition? What's the business plan that you have? C. Five G? We see that in the horizon that's evolving its evolution, so to speak. Pun intended on edge is certainly very relevant for enterprises, whether it's manufacturing or industrial or just people. Yeah, >> I'd say there are two things. One is a CZ. I'm sure you heard from folks at GM, where our vision is this notion of any any anywhere. We've talked about any cloud at any application that any device. So that becomes one of the strongest different chaining factors in terms of what V Amir can bring. Tow any of our customers compared to the competition, right? Nobody can actually make it really across these dimensions. If you then take that architecture and use that to deploy a telco cloud, we're now making investments that are telco specific that allow the tailcoat than take this and make the most out of it. As an example, we're investing in open stack we're investing in container ization. We just bought a company called Johanna and Johanna essentially allows the operator to go and provide metrics from their radio access networks. Use at that to train a learning engine and then feed that back so that the operator can tune their network to get like fewer dropped calls in the region. So if you combined technology like that with this, any cloud infrastructure that we have underneath that that's the best in class deployment methodology for any. Tell Cho to deploy >> five. Your business model metrics for you internally is get Maur deployments. What stage of development five G certainly is in a certain stage, but you know, edges there. Where is the Progress bar? If you're the kind of oh, >> it's actually mold phenomenally. I mean, every time we have conversations like this, we're moving about further in terms off. How many carriers are deploying on via mare on a telco cloud Architecture? How many subscribers are basically being serviced by an architectural like this? And then how many network functions are being deployed? Two of'em air architecture. So we are over 100 carriers now we are over. We have about 800 million subscribers, or so that about globally are being serviced by a V M Air supported network. On then, we have essentially over 120 network functions that >> are operating on top of you. Usually bring in all the same stuff that's announced that the show that stuff's gonna fold into the operating platform or Joe Chuckles have different requirements. Off course. It's >> both. We take the best of what is there from the sort of overall vehement factory and then as a team. My team then builds other widgets on top that are telco specific. >> How big is your your tam up Terry for you? >> Well, so the best way to look at it as telcos globally spend about a trillion dollars in capital investment and then probably to X that in terms of their operating expenditure over the course off all of the things that they do right? And out of that, I would say probably a tent off that. So if you take about $100 billion opportunity, opens itself up toe infrastructure investment in terms off the kinds of things that we're talking about now, they're not gonna move from like 0 200 of course. So if you take some period of time, I would say good subset off that $100 billion opportunity is gonna open itself up >> to it. This kind of business cases, eliminating that two x factor, at least reducing it. Is that exactly? That's not just that Service is that's, >> ah, cost reduction alternative. But then you have the ability to go deploy. Service is faster, so it's really a combination off both sort of carrot and the stick, right? I mean, the character here is the ability to go monetize More new service is with five G faster. The stick is that if you don't do it, Ortiz will get there faster and your costs off. Deploying your simple service is will increase his >> telcos, in your opinion, have what they have to do to get the DNA chops to actually be able to compete with the over to top OT T providers and be more agile. I mean, it's obviously sort of new skills that they have to bring in a new talent. Yeah, >> well, first and foremost, they need toe get to a point where their infrastructure is agile and they get into a business model off knowing how to monetize that agile infrastructure. So, for example, they could offer network as a service on a consume as you go basis. They could offer a platform as a service on top off that network in order for or titties to go build applications so they can do Rev shares with the forties. Or they could have offer. Full service is where they could go in and say, We are the conferencing provider for videoconferencing for enterprises. I mean, these are all models that >> the great conversation love to do. Your Palo Alto? Yes. Have you in our studio want to do more of a deep dive? We love the serious, super provocative, and it's important Final question for you. Though Pat Sr here on the Cube, lay asked him, Look back in the past 10 years. Yeah, look back in the next 10 years. What waves should everyone be riding? He said three things that working security and kubernetes humans being number one actually promoting convinced everyone for the ride, for obvious reasons, clouded. I get that, but networking Yeah, that's your world. That's changing. Which which events do you go to where you meet your audience out there in the telco because networking is a telco fundamental thing. Sure moving packets around. This is a big thing, >> eh? So far, operator networking related stuff, I would say. I mean the biggest shows that for us would be Mobile World Congress as an example, right? It's where many operators are. But I would also say that when we do our own events like this is the ember. But the movie forums in in Asia packers an example. A lot of the telco conversations I find they are best done one on one before. Yeah, the forums are our forums, but we will goto have one on one conversations or small group conversations >> with our telco customers. Locals Shakaar Thanks for spending. You get a hard stop. Very busy. >> Thank you. Thanks for having me >> here, Sugar Yaar, Who's here inside the Cube bringing down five G, which is still pregame. A few winning something first thing is gonna come up soon, but edges super hot. A lot of telco customers be back with more live coverage of the emerald after this short break

>> from the Silicon Angle Media Office in Boston, Massachusetts. It's the cue. Now, here's your host. Day Volonte. >> Hi, >> everybody. Welcome to this cute conversation. I'm Dave Volonte and Stew Minuteman is here with me. We're gonna break down a w s kind of give you Ah, midyear What's happened so far this year with all the events that we've been covering and what to look forward to? Uh, the N Y C Summit is coming up stew. It's been a big year. Obviously. What we came off a re invent. Amazon's got $30,000,000,000 run rate business growing at 40 plus percent per year. That means they're putting 9,000,000,000 of incremental revenue every year into the cloud business. The marketplace, That growth that's roughly as large is tthe e entire Microsoft cloud business, which is astounding >> day that that that's that's the point Amazon definitely has been making for a couple of years. And you're absolutely right. Microsoft is definitely growing at a faster pace than Amazon, and they're running about 75 87 but off a much smaller number. So the incremental add that Amazon has been throwing off the last couple years. Every year they're adding more than an azure every year. So absolutely Amazon, you know, is the lead horse out there. And while you know, the horses on the track behind them are trying fast to catch up Amazon. If you talk about Infrastructures service, AWS is still the lead. >> Well, the big question is. Will that attenuate? And we were at Remember the Nutanix inaugural Nutanix Stop next? Do you rush Pandey, who's very smart guy, somebody we respect a lot. One of the fundamental assumptions they were making is eventually the law of large numbers will catch up to them and know it very well May. But it hasn't yet. I asked John Lovelock, can a company the size of Amazon $30,000,000,000 company grow it for 42% a year? Is that sustainable? And he said, Absolutely. There's nothing to stop them now. Who knows who has the crystal ball? What are your thoughts? >> Yeah, So, Dave, what we saw is Amazon's not sitting still. You know, they always like to say it's always Day one, and if you look at where they're going, the products that they keep throwing off the innovation that they keep moving on and the flywheel that they've had first of customer acquisition with all of the innovations that they're putting out there and the flight well. But I've been talking about the last couple of years the label of data, which is something we want to be a little concerned about. How much data Amazon actually does have both Amazon AWS and Amazon, with all those intelligent devices that are in your homes and connecting everything together. Some people are a little concerned about that. The government's a little bit concerned about that, but absolutely Amazon is going everywhere. We've seen Amazon going into sub segments of the market, going into verticals and going just really broad, really deep. So absolutely I don't see anything slowing a bit on down. It is a company that continues to impress one of >> the challenges. I think those do that that Amazon does have, and this came out of the reinforced >> conference a couple weeks ago in Boston, which was, Ah, conference for security practitioners, a lot of si SOS chief information security officers. The number one challenge that came out of that when you talk to practitioners was their ability to keep up with the innovations that Amazon is putting forth. So, you know, I wonder if we're gonna talk to some commercial customers. You'll see them down the summit probe to see if, in fact, that's part of their challenge. Just the pace at which Amazon brings out new features. But we've done Gosh, we've covered eight events or will have covered eight events this year. Eight productions. It started in the U. K. Where we covered a public sector health care. And then we did the AWS summit London really all about both public sector in the UK as well as the summit in the UK Innovations in the UK around cloud, etcetera, cloud adoption. 12,000 people at the AWS London summit. Now you covered re Mars, which was not the Cube wasn't there, but you were there. What was that show? >> Yes. So, first of all, it's an Amazon >> show, not a native US show, but absolutely showed underneath where eight of us fits into the fulfillment centers of Amazon. And it was about re Marceau Mars A play of course on space. But it was a machine learning automation, robotics in space. So you had the cool blue origin stuff that actually brought in. Robert Downey Jr talked about how he's going to save the planet with, you know, robotics and intelligence out there to help clean up pollution in the globe on and the like. But it was a phenomenal show, but what I said is actually going to show a little bit underneath the covers of Amazon similar what we've seen from eight of us at the reinvent shows over the years. Because, you know, we all know how many boxes air coming to our, you know, our place of home every day and how fast that's going. And so this is what's happening underneath the robotics and machine learning a lot of those Air AWS Service's that are powering that. So it was a fascinating show, Dave and absolutely showed other relationship between Amazon, the parent company. Eight of us, all those cloud service is that helped feed the bigger business. >> Now, June, the Cube covered the D. C. Public sector summit. This is Teresa Carlson's gig. She's the host. Actually, Andy Jassy was there this time. He wasn't there last year when you and I recovering it. And of course, that's all about bringing cloud to public sector, not just federal but all public sector. It includes AH, non profit and education, which talk about in a minute. The big story. There is a jet. I we're talking about tens of billions of dollars going to ah, contract. Oracle, of course, is fighting it. It's going into the courts. I guess they've been a number of reviews or could won't give up its oracle. Amazon clearly is the front runner. Last I read, it was down to AWS and Microsoft, with AWS being the lead contender there. We'll see what happens. I think the decision is coming down this month, July 2019. But it's really again about bringing cloud innovations to public sector. Public sector tends to take things a little bit later than the commercial like. For instance, last year they announced the the VM wear on AWS was available, so you'll see those kinds of things come maybe a year later. But its again. Another big show there 12. 13,000 people there at the D. C Convention center. >> Yeah, Davey, when you talked about the critique of what's happening in Amazon as Amazon goes deeper into all of these verticals How do they help get that information to the user in a way that they need to run their businesses? So my co host for New York City's Cory Quinn was listen to his podcast this morning and he said, That's where Amazon's got dozens of blog's. They've got so many announcements, they haven't done a really good job, something we've seen many companies do. How do I get to you know that business roll and put it in, you know, verbal that they understand, as opposed to just >> Hey, we had 1000 new features >> come out this year and they're awesome. Then you should use everything s o. You know, that's something that, you know the industry as a whole needs to do better at an Amazon. Just in the nature of how fast they're moving is something that they should be able to do a better job. >> And Jennifer is also gonna be in New York City. And one of things he was stressing at reinforce was the marketplace. We had Dave McCann on the just rocketing. I think it was 100,000 census of security subscriptions. I think it was 1,000,000 subscriptions in total so just an amazing ah momentum in the marketplace. But reinforce was all about security. Deep dives on security, chief information, security officers. What came out of that show the big takeaway was was head of AWS is, uh, security. The chief information security officer, Schmidt said. This narrative in the industry that the sky is falling doesn't do anybody any good. Um, it's not productive. We should be more positive. The state of the cloud union is good, like the president of states is State of the Union is strong. Um, having said that, Amazon talks about the shared security model. The practitioners that we talked to said, Yeah, shared model Amazon's going to secure the the infrastructure of the storage, the compute of the database. We are responsible for our end, and it really is on us to make sure that we are secure. So again, back to that point about the pace of innovation that Amazon is putting forth is a challenge for people. AWS imagine is also going down. I think this week what's that you're >> so it's in Seattle and it's you mentioned the public Sector one in D. C, which is government agencies, nonprofits and education. So imagine is a subset of that. My understanding is the education, a nonprofit piece of that from when you and I were in D. C. Last year for the Public sector summit. It's It is impressive how deep Amazon is going into these spaces, the affinity they have. And really, you know how happy the customers are to be able to move fast. So, you know, when you think about nonprofits and think about education, innovation is not the first thing that usually comes to mind because budgets are tight and I don't have enough people. And usually you've got, you know, whatever's left over. But imagine is them. How do we move these forward? How do we You know, we know we need to help transform education. It's so important to train the next generation. So, you know, imagine there are some great stories that come out of that. Jeffrey loves getting those stories, helping us tell those stories through the Cube platform. And so it's the second year we're doing >> Yes, it would be covering that. And then, of course, reinvent will have two sets again that reinvent this year. The Super >> Bowl of our industry, >> right? Sure. Um, something's going on. So unfortunate incidents in Southern California. Big earthquakes, actually. Multiple earthquakes, Right? You had the physical earthquake, and then you had CO I, leonard going to the Clippers. But so I'm interested in sort of poking at this notion of ground stations. So at reinvent last year, Amazon announced on his own ground station, which essentially was ground station is a service. So if I understand it, one of the challenges okay, You launched the satellites, but you still need a ground station to collect the data and then uploaded and analyze it. That's what AWS is is partnering to put in infrastructure that allows you to essentially rent ground station infrastructure. So, you know, they worry about building it in securing it yourself. Because you think about it. It's got to be a secure location. You gotta have fencing. You got a physical security. You got to get the data in. You gotta upload it to the toe. Where we gonna upload it? So Amazon is basically building this service out, saying Don't worry about the ground station piece. Rent that from us, you know, swipe your credit card. Your ground station as a service, and then we'll ingest that data uploaded to the cloud and then apply all of the tooling that we have to allow you to analyze that data. So if you think about the earthquake of devastation, if you don't have a ground station there, you can, in theory, go to AWS and actually spin up a ground station in jest. You know, on the ground, you know, the ground truth as we like to sometimes talk about and actually get satellite imaging and telemetry in that region, you know, this comes into play things like forest fires and all kinds of of natural disaster. >> Dave, even at the remarks show, I attended a session where one of the Amazon partners was talking about not only just getting the satellite data down, but Justus. They have the snowball edge today, which is, you know, for you know, I ot or some remote sites, but some of these satellites are gonna have the compute and storage at in satellite themselves. So if you think about I'm gonna have these geosynchronous satellites. I'm gonna have all this connectivity. And if I could get a gigabit of Ethernet, you know, traffic going to the satellites and I could do the processing at the edge, which is now up in space. I can process that. And you know, that edge that we talked about get to hold another dimension, you know, off off the terra firma to be able to do those kind of analysis. As you said, earthquakes, you know, all the all the climate discussion that's going on, we should be able to have tap into even more. Resource is, and we'll have to rename Cloud if it even goes beyond the Earth. >> And then, um, outpost is the other story that we've been tracking, attracting a lot of stories, but but outpost is starting to ship in beta form. We've seen instances of >> so, so seeing >> it. We just did a little quick right up. >> I mean, Dave, you know, just a ripple went through the >> industry when they showed Hey, here's Iraq and what they're like. This is the exact same rack that we have in the Amazon data centers and why it's a little surprising because we're allowed to see inside the Amazon Data Center. So it's like, Okay, this is what they're computed awaited to 24 in tracking, supposed to a 19 in track. But that line between the public cloud and my on premises environment absolutely is blurring. So everybody wants to see where Amazon's going. They have the big partnership with VM, where Veum, where is already shipping the solution? That is the same software for that Veum wear on AWS in my data center. So, you know, I can have you know, the Dell hardware with the Veum where code or I can have the Amazon hardware with the VM where code coming later this year without post. So that line between public in private is absolutely blurring. And where to my applications live, You know that that future of how fast is eight of us continue to grow? Absolutely. There are applications and data and things that will stay in my own data center and under my control. But that line is definitely blurring. And there's gonna be some re architectures. It's definitely still gonna take a couple of years to sort some of these things out. But we're at some of those inflection points where we'll see some of >> us. So I wrote a post its upon wicked bond kind of analyzing that video, and there's some interesting things that are unique. There's certainly a lot of goodness in there. Not some of the things they talk about are completely unique. Thio, aws. But things like Nitro and their special virtual ization engine and their special chip on Do you want to get a look at that? You take a look at that video and thence to New York City Summit this week. Um, we mentioned some of the innovations that we've seen up to date this year. A lot of talk I'm sure about the marketplace. >> Yeah, I'm wondering if there'll be any ripples, Dave, because the 1/2 of a chick you, too, was supposed to be in New York City. And now it's not, doesn't mean they don't have a strong presence in New York City like London and believe it's somewhere around 12 to 15,000 people. When I went to New York City two years ago was quite impressive. It is a free show, which means if your customer you get in for free. If you're a partner, of course, you're still paying for everything that goes there. But the regional summits are quite impressive and a great way to get in touch with Amazon and all that they're doing. If you don't want to go to the Super Bowl itself, which is, you know, 50,000 plus now in Las Vegas towards the end of the year. >> Yeah, these air, like many reinvents and they're actually quite good. A lot of a lot of practitioner focused on you're gonna you're gonna see that New York City >> did what I always love about every Amazon show I go to. There are customers that are interested learning new things. How can you do better with what I'm doing? But also, how can I change what I'm doing? How can I move forward? So even if it's not adopting the latest and greatest from AWS, the entire ecosystem is going there to meet with those customers and talk about digital transformation? Modern workforce? All of these hot trends definitely play out. Ground zero is the AWS. >> Yeah, and this is by design. As I said before, the pace of innovation is a challenge for people. It's an adoption blocker and so Amazon wants to educate and share the knowledge so that they can get more adoption. OK, stew. Thanks very much. Good luck. This week. Check out silicon angle dot com For all the news, the cube dot net is where the videos will live and watch. Do on John Ferrier and Corey Quinn. Live and check out the cuban dot com for all the research. Thanks for watching Everybody Day, Volonte and Stupid Event. We'll see you next time.

>> live from Boston, Massachusetts. It's the queue covering your red. Have some twenty nineteen brought to you by bread. >> Welcome back to the Cube and our continuing coverage here. The Red had summit. This is six time around for us. Fifth time for stew minimum. So he still gets almost the perfect attendance. Goldmark. First time for me. So still have a lot of catching up to do. Stewed minimum. John Walls and Steve Spiker now joins us. He is the senior principal product manager. Developer tools, Red Hat and Steve. Good afternoon to you. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. Let's just talk about first off development in general. I mean, there's a lot of give and take there, right? You're tryingto listen. What air? The needs. Where the deficiencies, Where can the improvements be made? But how much do you drive that on your side and how much do listen and respond to do what? You're here for. The community. >> Yeah, we do a little bit of both. And so a lot of it is responding to the community, and that's one of the areas that Red has really excelled. Is taking what's popular, what's working upstream and helping moving along make it a stable pot product or stable solution that developers can use. But we also have a certain agenda or certain platforms that we want to present. So we start from, like, various run times to actually contain our platforms. And so we want to have to kind of drive some of that initiatives on our own to help Dr Phil that because we hear it from customers a lot, it's like things you're doing are great. But like there's all these projects that need to come together sort of a product or unified experience. And so we spent a lot of our time China bring those things together as a way to help developers do those different task and also focus across like not just a job run times which we have a lot of job. >> So you might have it. You might have an in product in mind, right? And you realize that there might be a gap in terms of development, so you encourage or you try to bridged that gap a little bit. To get to that in product is that you're saying Yeah, >> so we do a lot of things to help build the pieces so that people can sometimes build their own experiences. They want. In the end, developers control kind of their own destiny, their own set of tools and a lot of customers have their own unique requirements, even like some tools they develop in house for loans, kind of regulatory reasons and other things. And so we have two, one build the pieces but also stitched the pieces together to help them have that kind of out of the box experience. Because some some customers really don't want to do that. They just want to say one kind of a turnkey solution. But then we may need to make some adjustments here and there. >> Yeah, but by Steve, you know, it's it's funny. It rhymes for me with what I saw, you know, fifteen, twenty years ago with Lennox. A lot of changes, a lot of pieces. I want to take advantage of it. But you know, a boy can somebody help me with this and you know that that's of course. Red hat rode that way pretty well right Today, cupidity is even more sprawling. There's so many different projects. There's so many pieces boy. It is complicated on DH. Therefore, how do we take advantage of that? What do I need to know? What can my platform a vendor do for me so that I don't have to manage that? Yeah, I love you. Spanned on that gives us a little bit of comparing trash. You know what's the same? What's different? Yeah, and so >> there's different aspects. I think the developer experience one thing that we talked about. It's like it just works sometimes. So, like it's if it's Cooper days. We've spent a lot time making sure it's hardened and works well. So you're not like debugging it, spending time on things that waist development time. Instead, That way, folks let on that. We also look at how we can build abstraction layers on top of that. So we built a Seelye tool called Rodeo, which is a developed, streamlined developer experience for open shift, and it's really focused on open ship. That way, that developer really just can focus on their application. They could deploy it, taken quickly, work on the changes before they commit to get, and then they can then also have a similar experience in the browser with things like Eclipse Jr Code or Dick workspaces are I got commercial offering behind that and that takes actually using the platform itself to do development, which is really, really super cool so that you can have an idea and the browser. You can also have the workspace like you're all your dependencies, like everything you would normally have on your laptop now don't need to worry about. It's now containerized and quickly spun up as a way to do development. And it's really a thing that enterprises really enjoy because they get like, quick satisfaction, like they get the stuff off the proprietary code off the death up there using their container platform, and it's building the same way they would build when they >> deployed my backgrounds on the infrastructure side. And the whole reason we have infrastructure to be able to run our abs and the Holy Grail we've wanted is you know, not not my developers. I shouldn't need to think about the stuff underneath, right? We looked at virtual ization. We look a container ization. You know, the nirvana of server lists, as they call it, is that I shouldn't have to think about that you know how we doing? Because at the end of the day, and I talked to users like Oh, jeez, well, I need to worry. What if something breaks? I need to understand the security for my environment. You know what you're seeing and talking to customers about it from there. Stop development. Yes, so they're able >> tto. It's like here's different stories, like Tool, Factor act. So it's like if you stay in certain parameters, you can have a lot of success, and that's still kind of true today. Survivalist kind of takes that to the next level, where you can really just have a predefined either a function spectacle o two and then things are really easy, and you don't have to worry about various aspects. But even though you look at the various vendors when you're working with different functions, it's even complex like, Oh, I need to provide the security on you. Make sure he sees a wire together. How do I log these things? How do I debugged when things across this mesh go wrong? And so it's like it's getting getting better. But there's still a lot of work to do to continue to improve that, and you will see a lot of innovation happening in that area, especially the work that we're working on. >> What kind of given take do you have in terms of what? Not only what is that community learning from you and the tools that you're providing them? But what are you getting back from that other than, you know, advancing a project or whatever, in terms of expertise, in terms of understanding, maybe a new wayto to build a different mouse trap. You know that someone comes up with an interesting idea. You're like, >> Wow, I >> didn't take that. Yeah, I think that's >> where, like the partnerships we've had with various companies before you go off starting out with Cooper Netease Anything in the Cave Native project last year. And that really took a different way of looking at serve elicit, moving it forward to say, Yeah, this is this is a different way. We thought about how we would do this on Cooper nowadays, even kind of like you abstract that ap I away. And it's like it's just to keep native of survivalists and then Karina use this kind of implementation detail behind that even and So that's really interesting to see things like that. And then also the recent work announcements with Microsoft and the azure functions where people like they maybe, you know, into the event sources there they would make sure that were close. That they're doing the functions are building, are running on Cooper Netease and our communities is is open shift. So it's really kind of completing the life cycle. >> So what if we could just step act, you know, if you talk about communities and open ships specifically, you've got you know, you've got partnership with Google and they've got the geeky and Antos stuff. You've got partnership for the Amazon, you know, they've got a ks, these things, they're not fully seamless and interoperable. It's, you know, I usually hear some confusion in the marketplace as to, you know, communities can run lots of places, but all the various you know, if you choose an implementation well, that your implementation and you should run that everywhere. Not I can't take all the various implementations and they're not inter swappable. So maybe you could help expand on that A little bit is toe, you know what's the goal? Where are we with this maturity here and you know, where do we need it to get? Because, you know, boy, it definitely is a little bit complicated. Least, you know, from the seat that I sit in Yeah. So it's >> somewhat complex, I think, goes back to your early days talking about letting she's like you would say you have an application that could run anywhere. They have Lenox this kind of truth. You know, there's always like certain security settings or packages you have enabled. That just holds true for elected Kuban aged world as well. You can lock it down a certain way. You could open it up a certain way. And so you see a lot of content that's delivered, assuming certain like privileges I have on the system and other systems that don't allow it. And so I think, more and more we see through the standardization something we could study in conformance testing. It really helps people like No, we want our getting in their hands. On an instance. It's really, you know, a full fledged communities or the part that they care about the most is working out well. And so I see that gave me the evil by also see tools that kind of abstract, even more so like a native, is a mentioned sort of survivalist workloads or functions themselves and then even house tool in kind of works. On top of that, like Natively understands the platform, that platform and those requirements to move those applications across the different systems because we have a lot of customers who run open ship communities as well as like many other good bearnaise kind of instances that so they have. We have this requirement to make sure we stay conforming, allow them to make sure the were closer portable, and it's an important part to move forward. So I still think there's a lot of work to be done toe to make these things a smoother processes. It's a lot of interesting things going on, though, >> So any interesting tens with workloads that's one of things we always look at is, you know, um, I just taking the old workloads. Am I doing them in a new place Or, you know, are there new new workloads and anything jumping out at you from customers that you talk to? >> Yes. So the way talk I know I mentioned several See multiple times a whole idea around this auto scaling. And Lou only losing your uplink your resources when you need to is a big deal. So we see a lot more and more of those kind of small function, single purpose things that are occurring up until, like, machine learning. Big data. It just continues. A GPU resource is we talked about running a V EMS and cos when I first heard this, like four years ago, I laughed out loud, and I really don't know. Their seriousness is something that happens. And, yeah, it's becoming mainstream now. So now kind of everything kind of fits within the current. You know, orchestrator of those workloads. >> You're not laughing anymore, right? No. No, because there's someone areas in which your concerns are certainly understandable securities. One of those a lot of attention being paid automation these days, right? And a lot of opportunity there. Is there one, or are there a couple areas where you say this is kind of where we have maybe greener pastures in terms of providing developers with really unusual tools are really more sophisticated, more complex or effective tools than than in any other area where you could use that kind of a boost. >> Yeah, I think there's a lot of things, but one thing that I see in this area is still a lot of fragmentation, like I'm not sure if I see you like this kind of a single way that things work, seeing a lot of great work, like with the Microsoft GS code tooling pieces. And I'm just saying that from an abstraction way to bring certain things together. Nice work going with Microsoft, the committee's plugging for there, and we were collaborating with them on that to extend it for some of the open shift use cases. But that just kind of moves, I think Mohr to beat the developers where they're at and will continue to invest across the different set of tools like I do, the more you keep up with these list of all these tools in the ecosystem. Everytime I present it, someone says, I don't know about those, but here's Maura that I didn't know about it, so this is just continues to grow and people continue to innovate, and I think it just think it's exciting because we continue Teo to evolve it. So I know think there's much in the way of kind of narrowing down on a smaller set of things. I think it's going to continue to expand in the sense. >> Speaking of expansion at Microsoft build yesterday, there was announcement of beloved Taquito K d a. A ce your functions with open shift. Help us parts a little bit. What, what that is. >> Yeah. So what that's about is really taking Thea's your functions and allowing those workloads to Warren on open ship because they're targeted towards Cuba. Netease and, of course, open ship those grenades distribution. So it allows that to happen. There's also that it's a unique auto scaler that kind of allows workload to be more surveillance run. So then also it's it ties into some of the azure event sorts of soul like thee. The message Cuba and bus Kafka that's there. And so now you can wire in yours your pieces, you can run it across here. Either hosted is your or on open shift with those of your function. >> Okay, just to clarify this is today separate from the K Native Initiative that you were talking about earlier. >> Yes, that's right. So this is touching on some of those points and the idea behind this project. This liken early preview announcer was like showing some progress, but they're looking in wiring in some of the chips. Start the kidney of serving pieces to allow running in those applications on open ship, but also the need of events sources. So you can take combination events and triggers your functions and do some of these exciting things. >> Can I ask you, you're doing sessions here at this show? You know how many of the people here you know, talking about survivalists and looking at that bleeding edge or there? There are other technologies that you find them spending a little bit more time in the tooling. It's >> a wide range. I'm really shocked by what some of the customers are like. Bleeding edge Kate made. It was like, Oh, you know, we saw whatever zero dot three release out there with this, and we'd really like this auto scaling capability because we're spending a lot of money running these applications that are not doing anything, So we like the better auto scaler that's out there. The others are really just like trying to understand more about container technology. I was just talking to Jen one early after a session. He's like, This is what we're trying to do. We need to contain your eyes applications. How do I build a CIA pipeline around it? So it's a It's a wide range of things you see here. Well, >> you certainly at the center of this inspiration, the innovation of the industry. I know you're an exciting place, and it's kind of something new every day for you. Probably right. >> Oh, it is. Yeah. Especially when these big conference and announcements come >> out. Gear up, right? Yeah, Exactly. Good job, Steve. Thank you for joining us here. We appreciate the time and wish you well down the road. >> Take me much. Enjoyed being on >> you, Steve Spiker from Red Hat. Joining this here for the first time on the Q. Good to have you, Steve. Good Have you with us as we continue our coverage from Boston. But the Red Hat Summit

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBEConversation. >> Hi everyone, welcome to the special CUBEConversation. We're in Palo Alto, California, at theCUBE studio. I'm John Furrier, co-host of the CUBE. We're here with Chris Yeh. He's the co-founder and general partner of Blitzscaling Ventures, author of the book Blitzscaling with Reid Hoffman, founder of LinkedIn and a variety of other ventures, also a partner at Greylock Partners. Chris, great to see you. I've known you for years. Love the book, love Reid. You guys did a great job. So congratulations. But the big news is you're now a TV star as one of the original inaugural contestants on the Mental Samurai, just premiered on Fox, was it >> On Fox. >> On Fox, nine o'clock, on which days? >> So Mental Samurai is on Fox, Tuesdays at 9 p.m. right after Master Chef Junior. >> Alright. So big thing. So successful shows. Take us through the journey. >> Yeah. >> It's a new show, so it's got this kind of like Jeopardy vibe where they got to answer tough questions in what looks like a roller coaster kind of arm that moves you around from station to station, kind of jar you up. But it's a lot of pressure, time clock and hard questions. Tell us about the format. How you got that. Gives all the story. >> So the story behind Mental Samurai is it's from the producers of American Ninja Warrior, if you've ever seen that show. So American Ninja Warrior is a physical obstacle course and these incredible athletes go through and the key is to get through the obstacle course. If you miss any of the obstacles, you're out. So they took that and they translated it to the mental world and they said, okay, we're going to have a mental obstacle course where you going to have different kinds of questions. So they have memory questions, sequence questions, knowledge questions, all these things that are tapping different elements of intelligence. And in order to win at the game, you have to get 12 questions right in five minutes or less. And you can't get a single question wrong. You have to be perfect. >> And they do try to jar you up, to kind of scrabble your brain with those devices, it makes it suspenseful. In watching last night at your watch party in Palo Alto, it's fun to watch because yeah, I'm like, okay, it's going to be cool. I'll support Chris. I'll go there, be great and on TV, and oh my, that's pretty interesting. It was actually riveting. Intense. >> Yeah. You have that element of moving around from station to station and it's dramatic. It's kind of a theater presence. But what's it like in there? Give us some insight. You're coming on in April 30th so you're yet to come on. >> Yes. >> But the early contestants, none of them made it to the 100,000. Only one person passed the first threshold. >> Right >> Take us through the format. How many thresholds are there? What's the format? >> Perfect, so basically when a competitor gets strapped into the chair, they call it Ava, it's like a robot, and basically they got it from some company in Germany and it has the ability to move 360 degrees. It's like an industrial robot or something. It makes you feel like you're an astronaut or in one those centrifugal force things. And the idea is they're adding to the pressure. They're making it more of a challenge. Instead of just Jeopardy where you're sitting there, and answering questions and bantering with Alex Trebek, you're working against the clock and you're being thrown around by this robot. So what happens is first you try to answer 12 questions correctly in less than five minutes. If you do that, then you make it through to the next round, what they call the circle of samurai and you win $10,000. The circle of samurai, what happens is there are four questions and you get 90 seconds plus whatever you have left over from your first run, to answer those four questions. Answer all four questions correctly, you win $100,000 and the official title of Mental Samurai. >> So there's only two levels, circle of samurai but it gets harder. Now also I noticed that it's, their questions have certain puzzles and there's certain kinds of questions. What's the categories, if you will, what's the categories they offer? >> Yes, so the different categories are knowledge, which is just classic trivia, it's a kind of Jeopardy stuff. There's memory, where they have something on screen that you have to memorize, or maybe they play an audio track that you have to remember what happened. And then there's also sequence where you have to put things in order. So all these different things are represented by these different towers which are these gigantic television screens where they present the questions. And the idea is in order to be truly intelligent, you have to be able to handle all of these different things. You can't just have knowledge. You can't just have pop culture. You got to have everything. >> So on the candidates I saw some from Stanford. >> Yeah. >> I saw an athlete. It's a lot of diversity in candidates. How do they pick the candidates? How did you get involved? Did your phone ring up one day? Were you identified, they've read your blog. Obviously they've, you're smart. I've read your stuff on Facebook. How did you get in there? (laughs) >> Excellent question. So the whole process, there's a giant casting department that does all these things. And there's people who just cast people for game shows. And what happened with me is many years ago back in 2014, my sister worked in Hollywood when I was growing up. She worked for ER and Baywatch and other companies and she still keeps track of the entertainment industry. And she sent me an email saying, hey, here's a casting call for a new show for smart people and you should sign up. And so I replied to the email and said hey I'm Chris Yeh. I'm this author. I graduate from Stanford when I was 19, blah blah blah blah. I should be on your show. And they did a bunch of auditions with me over the phone. And they said we love you, the network loves you. We'll get in touch and then I never heard. Turns out that show never got the green light. And they never even shot that show. But that put me on a list with these various casting directors. And for this show it turns out that there was an executive producer of the show, the creator of the show, his niece was the casting director who interviewed me back in 2014. And she told her uncle, hey, there's this guy, Chris Yeh, in Palo Alto. I think would be great for this new show you're doing. Why don't you reach out to him. So they reached out to me. I did a bunch of Skype auditions. And eventually while I was on my book tour for Blitzscaling, I got the email saying, congratulations, you're part of the season one cast. >> And on the Skype interviews, was it they grilling you with questions, or was it doing a mock dry run? What was some of interview vetting questions? >> So they start off by just asking you about yourself and having you talk about who you are because the secret to these shows is none of the competitors are famous in advance, or at least very few of them are. There was a guy who was a major league baseball pitcher, there's a guy who's an astronaut, I mean, those guys are kind of famous already, but the whole point is, they want to build a story around the person like they do with the Olympics so that people care whether they succeed or not. And so they start off with biographical questions and then they proceed to basically use flash cards to simulate the game and see how well you do. >> Got it, so they want to basically get the whole story arc 'cause Chris, obviously Chris is smart, he passed the test. Graduate when he's 19. Okay, you're book smart. Can you handle the pressure? If you do get it, there's your story line. So they kind of look from the classic, kind of marketing segmentation, demographics is your storylines. What are some of the things that they said to you on the feedback? Was there any feedback, like you're perfect, we like this about you. Or is it more just cut and dry. >> Well I think they said, we love your energy. It's coming through very strongly to the screen. That's fantastic. We like your story. Probably the part I struggle the most with, was they said hey, you know, talk to us about adversity. Talk to us about the challenges that you've overcome. And I tell people, listen, I'm a very lucky guy. A lot of great things have happened to me in life. I don't know if there's that much adversity that I can really complain about. Other people who deal with these life threatening illnesses and all this stuff, I don't have that. And so that was probably the part I struggled the most with. >> Well you're certainly impressive. I've known you for years. You're a great investor, a great person. And a great part of Silicon Valley. So congratulations, good luck on the show. So it's Tuesdays. >> 9 p.m. >> 9 p.m. >> On fox. >> On Fox. Mental Samurai. Congratulations, great. Great to be at the launch party last night. The watch party, there'll be another one. Now your episode comes out on April 30th. >> Yes. So on April 30th we will have a big Bay area-wide watch party. I'm assuming that admission will be free, assuming I find the right sponsors. And so I'll come back to you. I'll let you know where it's going to be. Maybe we should even film the party. >> That's, well, I got one more question on the show. >> Yeah. >> You have not been yet on air so but you know the result. What was it like sitting in the chair, I mean, what was it personally like for you? I mean you've taken tests, you've been involved with the situation. You've made some investments. There's probably been some tough term sheets here and there, board meetings. And all that experience in your life, what was it compared to, what was it like? >> Well, it's a really huge adrenaline rush because if you think about there's so many different elements that already make it an adrenaline rush and they all combine together. First of all, you're in this giant studio which looks like something out of a space-age set with this giant robotic arm. There's hundreds of people around cheering. Then you're strapped into a robotic arm which basically makes you feel like an astronaut, like every run starts with you facing straight up, right? Lying back as if you're about to be launched on a rocket. And then you're answering these difficult questions with time pressure and then there's Rob Lowe there as well that you're having a conversation with. So all these things together, and your heart, at least for me, my heart was pounding. I was like trying very hard to stay calm because I knew it was important to stay clam, to be able to get through it. >> Get that recall, alright. Chris, great stuff. Okay, Blitzscaling. Blitzscaling Ventures. Very successful concept. I remember when you guys first started doing this at Stanford, you and Reid, were doing the lectures at Stanford Business School. And I'm like, I love this. It's on YouTube, kind of an open project initially, wasn't really, wasn't really meant to be a book. It was more of gift, paying it forward. Now it's a book. A lot of great praise. Some criticism from some folks but in general it's about scaling ventures, kind of the Silicon Valley way which is the rocket ship I call. The rocket ship ventures. There's still the other venture capitals. But great book. Feedback from the book and the original days at Stanford. Talk about the Blitzscaling journey. >> And one of the things that happened when we did the class at Stanford is we had all these amazing guests come in and speak. So people like Eric Schmidt. People like Diane Greene. People like Brian Chesky, who talked about their experiences. And all of those conversations really formed a key part of the raw material that went into the book. We began to see patterns emerge. Some pretty fascinating patterns. Things like, for example, a lot of companies, the ones that'd done the best job of maintaining their culture, have their founders involved in hiring for the first 500 employees. That was like a magic number that came up over and over again in the interviews. So all this content basically came forward and we said, okay, well how do we now take this and put it into a systematic framework. So the idea of the book was to compress down 40 hours of video content, incredible conversations, and put it in a framework that somebody could read in a couple of hours. >> It is also one of those things where you get lightning in a ball, the classic and so then I'd say go big or go home. But Blitzscaling is all about something new and something different. And I'm reading a book right now called Loonshots, which is a goof on moonshots. It's about the loonies who start the real companies and a lot of companies that are successful like Airbnb was passed over on and they call those loonies. Those aren't moonshots. Moonshots are well known, build-outs. This is where the blitzscaling kind of magic happens. Can you just share your thoughts on that because that's something that's not always talked about in the mainstream press, is that a lot of there blitzscaling companies, are the ones that don't look good on paper initially. >> Yes. >> Or ones that no one's talking about is not in a category or herd mentality of investors. It's really that outlier. >> Yes. >> Talk about that dynamic. >> Yeah, and one of the things that Reid likes to say is that the best possible companies usually sound like they're dumb ideas. And in fact the best investment he's been a part of as a venture capitalist, those are the ones where there's the greatest controversy around the table. It's not the companies that come in and everyone's like this is a no-brainer, let's do it. It's the companies where there's a big fight. Should we do this, should we not? And we think the reason is this. Blitzscaling is all about being able to be the first to scale and the winner take most or the winner take all market. Now if you're in a market where everyone's like, this is a great market, this is a great idea. You're going to have huge competition. You're going to have a lot of people going after it. It's very difficult to be the first to scale. If you are contrarian and right you believe something that other people don't believe, you have the space to build that early lead, that you can then use to leverage yourself into that enduring market leadership. >> And one of the things that I observed from the videos as well is that the other fact that kind of plays into, I want to get your reaction, this is that there has to be a market shift that goes on too because you have to have a tailwind or a wave to ride because if you can be contrarian if there's no wave, >> Right. >> right? so a lot of these companies that you guys highlight, have the wave behind them. It was mobile computing, SaaSification, cloud computing, all kind of coming together. Talk about that dynamic and your reaction 'cause that's something where people can get confused on blitzscaling. They read the book. Oh I'm going to disrupt the dry cleaning business. Well I mean, not really. I mean, unless there's something different >> Exactly. >> in market conditions. Talk about that. >> Yeah, so with blitzscaling you're really talking about a new market or a market that's transforming. So what is it that causes these things to transform? Almost always it's some new form of technological innovation, or perhaps a packaging of different technological innovations. Take mobile computing for example. Many of the components have been around for a while. But it took off when Apple was able to combine together capacitative touchscreens and the form factor and the processor strength being high enough finally. And all these things together created the technological innovation. The technological innovation then enables the business model innovation of building an app store and creating a whole new way of thinking about handheld computing. And then based on that business model innovation, you have the strategy innovation of blitzscaling to allow you to grow rapidly and keep from blowing up when you grow. >> And the spirit of kind of having, kind of a clean entrepreneurial segmentation here. Blitzscaling isn't for everybody. And I want you to talk about that because obviously the book's popular when this controversy, there's some controversy around the fact that you just can't apply blitzscaling to everything. We just talk about some of those factors. There are other entrepreneurialship models that makes sense but that might not be a fit for blitzscaling. Can you just unpack that and just explain, a minute to explain the difference between a company that's good for blitzscaling and one that isn't. >> Well, a key thing that you need for blitzscaling is one of these winner take most or winner take all markets that's just enormous and hugely valuable, alright? The whole thing about blitzscaling is it's very risky. It takes a lot of effort. It's very uncomfortable. So it's only worth doing when you have those market dynamics and when that market is really large. And so in the book we talk about there being many businesses that this doesn't apply to. And we use the example of two companies that were started at the same time. One company is Amazon, which is obviously a blitzscaling company and a dominant player and a great, great company. And the other is the French Laundry. In fact, Jeff Bezos started Amazon the same year that Thomas Keller started the French Laundry. And the French Laundry still serves just 60 people a day. But it's a great business. It's just a very different kind of business. >> It's a lifestyle or cash flow business and people call it a lifestyle business but mainly it's a cash flow or not a huge growing market. >> Yeah. >> Satisfies that need. What's the big learnings that you learned that was something different that you didn't know coming out of blitzscaling experience? Something that surprised you, something that might have shocked you, something that might have moved you. I mean you're well-read. You're smart. What was some learnings that you learned from the journey? >> Well, one of the things that was really interesting to me and I didn't really think about it. Reid and I come from the startup world, not the big company world. One of the things that surprised me is the receptivity of big companies to these ideas. And they explained it to me and they said, listen, you got to understand with a big company, you think it's just a big company growing at 10, 15% a year. But actually there's units that are growing at 100% a year. There's units that are declining at 50% a year. And figuring out how you can actually continue to grow new businesses quicker than your old businesses die is a huge thing for the big, established companies. So that was one of the things that really surprised me but I'm grateful that it appears that it's applicable. >> It's interesting. I had a lot of conversations with Michael Dell before, and before they went private and after they went private. He essentially was blitzscaling. >> Yeah. >> He said, I'm going to winner take most in the mature, somewhat declining massive IT enterprise spend against the HPs of the world, and he's doing it and VMware stock went to an all time high. So big companies can blitz scale. That's the learning. >> Exactly. And the key thing to remember there is one of the reasons why somebody like Michael Dell went private to do this is that blitzscaling is all about prioritizing speed over efficiency. Guess who doesn't like that? Wall street doesn't like because you're taking a hit to earnings as you invest in a new business. GM for example is investing heavily in autonomous vehicles and that investment is not yet delivering cash but it's something that's going to create a huge value for General Motors. And so it's really tough to do blitzscaling as a publicly traded company though there are examples. >> I know your partner in the book, Reid Hoffman as well as in the blitzscaling at Stanford was as visible in both LinkedIn and as the venture capitalist of Greylock. But also he was involved with some failed startups on the front end of LinkedIn. >> Yeah. >> So he had some scar tissue on social networking before it became big, I'll say on the knowledge graph that he's building, he built at LinkedIn. I'm sure he had some blitzscaling lessons. What did he bring to the table? Did he share anything in the classes or privately with you that you can share that might be helpful for people to know? >> Well, there's a huge number of lessons. Obviously we drew heavily on Reid's life for the book. But I think you touched on something that a lot of people don't know, which is that LinkedIn is not the first social network that Reid created. Actually during the dot-com boom Reid created a company called SocialNet that was one of the world's first social networks. And I actually was one of the few people in the world who signed up and was a member of SocialNet. I think I had the handle, net revolutionary on that if you can believe that. And one of the things that Reid learned from his SocialNet experience turned into one of his famous sayings, which is, if you're not embarrassed by your first product launch, you've launched too late. With SocialNet they spent so much time refining the product and trying to get it perfectly right. And then when they launched it, they discovered what everyone always discovers when they launch, which is the market wants something totally different. We had no idea what people really wanted. And they'd wasted all this time trying to perfect something that they've theoretically thought was what the market wanted but wasn't actually what the market wanted. >> This is what I love about Silicon Valley. You have these kind of stories 'cause that's essentially agile before agile came out. They're kind of rearranging the deck chairs trying to get the perfect crafted product in a world that was moving to more agility, less craftsmanship and although now it's coming back. Also I talked to Paul Martino, been on theCUBE before. He's a tribe with Pincus. And it's been those founding fathers around these industries. It's interesting how these waves, they start off, they don't get off the ground, but that doesn't mean the category's dead. It's just a timing issue. That's important in a lot of ventures, the timing piece. Talk about that dynamic. >> Absolutely. When it comes to timing, you think about blitzscaling. If you start blitzscaling, you prioritize speed over efficiency. The main question is, is it the right time. So Webvan could be taken as an example of blitzscaling. They were spending money wildly inefficiently to build up grocery delivery. Guess what? 2000 was not the right time for it. Now we come around, we see Instacart succeeding. We see other delivery services delivering some value. It just turns out that you have to get the timing right. >> And market conditions are critical and that's why blitzscaling can work when the conditions are right. Our days back in the podcast, it was, we were right but timing was off. And this brings up the question of the team. >> Yeah. >> You got to have the right team that can handle the blitzscaling culture. And you need the right investors. You've been on both sides of the table. Talk about that dynamic because I think this is probably one of the most important features because saying you going to do blitzscaling and then getting buy off but not true commitment from the investors because the whole idea is to plow money into the system. You mentioned Amazon, one of Jeff Bezos' tricks was, he always poured money back into his business. So this is a capital strategy, as well financial strategy capital-wise as well as a business trait. Talk about the importance of having that stomach and the culture of blitzscaling. >> Absolutely. And I think you hit on something very important when you sort of talk about the importance of the investors. So Reid likes to refer to investors as financing partners. Or financing co-founders, because really they're coming on with you and committing to the same journey that you're going on. And one of the things I often tell entrepreneurs is you really have to dig deep and make sure you do more due diligence on your investors than you would on your employees. Because if you think about it, if you hire an employee, you can actually fire them. If you take money from an investor, there's no way you can ever get rid of them. So my advice to entrepreneurs is always, well, figure out if they're going to be a good partner for you. And the best way to do that is to go find some of the entrepreneurs they backed who failed and talked to those people. >> 'Cause that's where the truth will come out. >> Well, that's right. >> We stood by them in tough times. >> Exactly. >> I think that's classic, that's perfect but this notion of having the strategies of the elements of the business model in concert, the financial strategy, the capital strategy with the business strategy and the people strategy, all got to be pumping that can't be really any conflict on that. That's the key point. >> That's right, there has to be alignment because again, you're trying to go as quickly as possible and if you're running a race car and you have things that are loose and rattling around, you're not going to make it across the finish line. >> You're pulling for a pit stop and the guys aren't ready to change the tires, (snapping fingers) you know you're out of sync. >> Bingo. >> Chris, great stuff. Blitzscaling is a great book. Check it out. I recommend it, remember blitz scale is not for anyone, it's for the game changers. And again, picking your investors is critical on this. So if you picked the wrong investors, blitzscaling will blow up in a bad way. So don't, don't, pick properly on the visa and pick your team. Chris, so let's talk about you real quick to end the segment and the last talk track. Talk about your background 'cause I think you have a fascinating background. I didn't know that you graduated when you're 19, from Stanford was it? >> Yes. >> Stanford at 19, that's a great accomplishment. You've been an entrepreneur. Take us through your journey. Give us a quick highlight of your career. >> So the quick highlight is I grew up in Southern California and Santa Monica where I graduated from Santa Monica High School along with other luminaries such as Rob Lowe, Robert Downey, Jr., and Sean Penn. I didn't go at the same time that they did. >> They didn't graduate when they were 17. >> They did not, (John laughing) and Charlie Sheen also attended Santa Monica High School but dropped out or was expelled. (laughing) Go figured. >> Okay. >> I came up to Stanford and I actually studied creative writing and product design. So I was really hitting both sides of the brain. You could see that really coming through in the rest of my career. And then at the time I graduated which was the mid-1990s that was when the internet was first opening up. I was convinced the internet was going to be huge and so I just went straight into the internet in 1995. And have been in the startup world ever since. >> Must love that show, Halt and Catch Fire a series which I love reminiscing. >> AMC great show. >> Just watching that my life right before my eyes. Us old folks. Talk about your investment. You are at Wasabi Ventures now. Blitzscaling Ventures. You guys looks like you're going to do a little combination bring capital around blitzscaling, advising. What's Blitzscaling Ventures? Give a quick commercial. >> So the best way to think about it is for the entrepreneurs who are actually are blitzscaling, the question is how are you going to get the help you need to figure out how to steer around the corners to avoid the pitfalls that can occur as you're growing rapidly. And Blitzscaling Ventures is all about that. So obviously I bring a wealth of experience, both my own experience as well as everything I learned from putting this book together. And the whole goal of Blitzscaling Ventures is to find those entrepreneurs who have those blitzscalable opportunities and help them navigate through the process. >> And of course being a Mental Samurai that you are, the clock is really important on blitzscaling. >> There are actually are a lot of similarities between the startup world and Mental Samurai. Being able to perform under pressure, being able to move as quickly as possible yet still be accurate. The one difference of course is in our startup world you often do make mistakes. And you have a chance to recover from them. But in Mental Samurai you have to be perfect. >> Speed, alignment, resource management, capital deployment, management team, investors, all critical factors in blitzscaling. Kind of like entrepreneurial going to next level. A whole nother lesson, whole nother battlefields. Really the capital markets are flush with cash. Post round B so if you can certainly get altitude there's a ton of capital. >> Yeah. And the key is that capital is necessary for blitzscaling but it's not sufficient. You have to take that financial capital and you have to figure out how to combine it with the human capital to actually transform the business in the industry. >> Of course I know you've got to catch a plane. Thanks for coming by in the studio. Congratulations on the Mental Samurai. Great show. I'm looking forward to April 30th. Tuesdays at 9 o'clock, the Mental Samurai. Chris will be an inaugural contestant. We'll see how he does. He's tight-lipped, he's not breaking his disclosure. >> I've got legal requirements. I can't say anything. >> Just say he's sticking to his words. He's a man of his words. Chris, great to see you. Venture capitalist, entrepreneur, kind of venture you want to talk to Chris Yeh, co-founder, general partner of blitzscaling. I'm John Furrier for theCUBE. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

[Music] hi I'm Peter Burroughs welcome to another cube conversation from our beautiful Studios here in palo alto california as we do with every cube conversation we come up with a great topic and we find someone who really understands it so they can talk about it we capture them for you so you can learn something about some of the new trends and changes in the industry and we've doing that today too the topic that we're talking about is how do you do a better job of mapping the costs that are being generated by the cloud or that informations coming out of cloud suppliers related to what you're using with the actual business activities that generate the differential capabilities that customers are looking for that's a tough tough challenge and to understand that better we're talking with junior Stormin who's a co-founder of cloud ability Jaron welcome to the cube thanks Peter good to be here so so let's talk about first who are you yeah so I am co-founder of cloud ability and credibility is focused around improving the unit economics of cloud spend so our customers tend to be those who are spending large amounts in AWS or Azure or GC P and we take their billing data their utilization data various metadata about their business and do machine learning and data science on top of it to help them get better visibility into sort of where that spend is going how they're using it but more importantly to give them some controls around how they want to optimize an optimize doesn't necessarily mean save money in a cloud world because most companies who are moving into cloud very heavily are doing that for the innovation for the speed so they can deliver you know better data faster but it's really about fine-tuning the conversation say okay here we want to save money here we want to move faster here we want to focus on quality and really providing a way for the the various groups that aren't normally talking the finance teams with the engineering teams with the procurement teams all these groups to come together and be able to take executive input to say okay how do we want to operate and how do we one improve those your economics as we go well I want to start with just quick comment on this notion of Union I can when people here historically hear the notion of unit unit economics they think of you know increasing scale so the average cost per unit goes down yeah I think you're talking about more than that right are you really also talking about a mapping of what spend is generating to the business activities that actually generate value and ensuring that you get the differential or the optimized Union economics unit cost yeah oh so the mapping is actually really interesting ly challenging in cloud it's hard enough in traditional IT if you look at somebody like AWS they have two hundred thousand SKUs different products you can buy and they now bill at a second level resolution so what this means is you've got all these engineers out there using cloud in a very good way to move quickly and of 8/2 little more features and they kind of have an unlimited credit card that they can go spend on as quickly as they need and they never see the statements they never see the bills and the other side you've got finance teams procurement teams who've sort of lost control of traditionally the power of the PIO that they have to actually rein that in and they're they're struggling just to understand what is the spend and then to the mapping question how do i allocate these hundreds and millions of charges that i have this month into cost centers and business units and getting that sorted in a world where engineers are focused on moving fast or not they're not tagging things based on cost and are typically so once you get that sort of mapping aspect sorted to the next point you brought as is in bringing the business value so how do we start to relate that back there's a concept a lot of you know IT has been a cost center and now it's sexual driver of value in a world where businesses are increasingly delivering their value through software so we need to start tying the spending mapping into the business and then tying that to the value delivered a great example of this I was sitting last week with one of the largest cloud spenders in the world there have been you know nine figures with their primary vendor and in the conversation with the executives we realized that nobody was looking at both sides of that equation you had the the finance people who were saying hey we're tracking the cost and we think I was happening there and then you had the the revenue generators looking at the money coming anyhow the cloud people with that but there wasn't this centralized view to say alright we want to have a conversation about what value I were getting to spend and the question that always comes up what that is I was doing the right amount well let me build on that because it's seat because IT is historically and this is one of the things that we've been doing over the last few years IT has historically done things on a project level yes all right so we had waterfall development we tried to change that with agile we had you know buy the hardware upfront and then deploy the application on a cloud changes that so this project orientation has led to a set of decisions about finance at the moment that the business asides to do it we've changed the practices that we use at a development level we've changed the practices that we use at an asset level is it now time to change the practices that we use at a finance level is that really kind of what's going on here it is that the project analogy is good because what we're seeing is they're shifting from a project basis to a productive basis and products that deliver value increasingly if you think about the change that's happened with DevOps it in the scene and cloud companies are delivering more of their value through software and they're not just using IT for internal projects right it's actually the driver of business how we interact with Airlines and banks and all these things so that's the shift to say okay now we've gotten good at DevOps moving fast and we've gotten good at deploying and building better data stores now we need to bring in this new discipline and the discipline is what the market is calling fin ops which essentially is combining financial financial operations but you simply combine technology applied specifically do a cloud roll and it only can really happen in cloud it can't happen in data centers because data centers have fixed spending right you have to wait to get resources once you make the investment it's a sunk cost there's months of lead time cloud introduced the removal of constraints which means you can get whatever you want as quickly as you want and DevOps meant it's all automated so instead of your collection of 60 servers you've got thousands that are coming up and down all the time so what you don't have to do is bring in all these groups engineers have to think about cost as a new efficiency metric they have to think about the impact of their business at this code this confirmation template they just wrote is going to have and the finance teams have to shift from this mode of I'm under report retro actively and at a quarterly granularity sixty days after it happened and block investment to be I'm going to partner with these teams report in a real-time fashion give them the visibility help forecast and actually bring them together to make better business decisions about the cloud spend so cloud has allowed development to alter practically agile has been around for a long time before the cloud predates the cloud but it became practical and almost demanded as a consequence of what you could do with cloud so cloud change development through agile it changed infrastructure management through DevOps where now you're you're deploying software infrastructure of code and know as code and what you're saying is the third leg of that stool cloud is now changing how you do financial management of technology financial management of IT and we're calling that fin ops yeah and you you you can't really have fin ops without cloud or without DevOps and if you have the two together you alter we need this new set of it's a new operating model the reason this has come to a head of late is you know if you look at going to the Amazon riemeck conferences a few years back it was like well how much is cloud gonna be a thing and okay clouds now gonna be a thing when's it gonna happen now it's about the how and how do we do this better cloud is hitting for the material spend levels now at bigger organizations I mean the you know see the the cloud projections where it's going I think it's now 360 billion the next few years and we're seeing CFO's at public companies look to say okay it's not my biggest line-item yet but it's the most variable and fastest growing cogs expense so it's actually start to affect our margins we needed a new set of process used to actually manage this so one of the things that's coming to market is this new group called the phenoms Foundation which is a non-profit trade association that initially has a few dozen of some of the largest cloudspinners of the world there's the Spotify as the alaskans the nation why it's Autodesk's and they've all come together as a set of best practice practitioners to start to codify this into something that can be you know scaled out in organizations so that group is gonna be putting out a user conference around this area there's a new o'reilly book that's coming out the end of the year that's going to be sort of the treatise and all this stuff pulled together because what we found in you know me is in code ability in the last eight years we bring in technology and platform to show the recommendations of visibility how to do this but the real challenge companies run into is they don't have the internal expertise their finance teams understand what they need to the engineers don't and so you know they came to us last year saying can you help figure out the processes can you educate us and that's really where you know the spin offs foundation is growing bringing together those people to define those processes so the the impact of cloud on each of these different groups on the development group on the infrastructure team and now on the finance team the interest the developer groups I think some of them resisted it but generally speaking it's gone okay and and eventually tooling from a variety different players came along that made it easy to enact best practices and software development through an agile mechanism in the last few years after significant battles within infrastructure teams about whether or not they were going to use software as code we've seen new products new tooling that has facilitated the adoption of those practices what kind of tooling are we going to see introduced that facilitates thin ops so that finance teams procurement teams move from a project orientation to a strategic management of the resource orientation I mean I think the first is on the engineering side is seeing costs become a first-class citizen of an efficiency metric that they need to look at so you know in their build processes baked in the CI CD looking to see am I properly sizing my compute request for the workload that it needs there's some research research just came out showing that I think it's like 80 percent of the market is not using the best discounting options the cloud providers offer you hear these horror stories it's too expensive we said overspend that's not actually a problem with the cloud providers that's a problem with the enterprises not using the tools offered the discounts the reserved ences the infrequent access door exactly so I think at the end of the day it's the first step in this is getting those checks in place to say are we using the things that help drive the right cost for our needs and the other side of that the finance team is really changing the way that they are interacting with their technology teams becoming partners becoming advocates in this versus a passive you know retroactive reporter down the line and this enables these sort of micro optimization discussions that can happen where data center world we bought it some cots is sitting there odd world we can make decisions today that impact you know the business tomorrow so let me make sure I got this so I have a client who who I was having a conversation with them they told me that their their Amazon there AWS bill is 87 gigabytes mm-hmm not that monthly that's 87 pages that's 87 gigabyte yeah so we get we bring this 87 gigabytes in and it's a story about what I consume out of Amazon it's not a story what my business utilizes to achieve its objectives so we're now entering into a world where we're trying to introduce those financial visit that financial visibility into how that spend can be mapped to what the business does so the finance group can look at a common notion of truth and the IT group can look at a combination of troop application owners can look at a common notion of truth and that's what is fin ops is providing if I got that right yeah absolutely and the eighty-seven gigabyte example is the exactly reason why it is fin option not just cloud financial management you can't have a person with a spreadsheet looking at that and trying to make decisions about it right it has to be automated its IT finances code it's got to be baked into the processes you know we we've seen organizations that have hundreds of millions of individual charges hitting them in a consumption based manner the other thing that's come in with the fin ops as a core tenant is we're now seeing a decentralization of accountability for that spend so if you look at the big cloud spenders out there maybe spending tens or hundreds mils a year some of them have thousands of cloud environments gone is the day of we have a centralized Group begins to say we're gonna turn this off turn this off we want to give each of those teams the ability to see there's just their portion of that bill in the right mapped way as you said and to be able to take actions on the back of that so that's changed and they you know you run it you maintain it you understand which shutdown what has sort of come back to the old centralized model is this notion and this is where procurements job is shifted to largely of we deal still want to centralize the rate reduction so engineers you go use less right essentially finance team procurement work together with the cloud vendors to get the best possible rates through reserved instances can be reduced discounts you know volume discounts negotiated rates whatever it is and they become sort of strategic sourcing just say you're gonna use whatever you're going to use and you're gonna watch that to make sure you're using the right amount will targets threshold we're gonna make sure we get the best rate and that's sort of the two sides of the coin well very importantly procurement has always been organized on episodic purchases where the whole point is to bring the price point down and now we're talking about a continuous services where you were literally you're literally basing your business on capabilities provided by a third party and that is a very very very different relation just-in-time purchasing right and it's and it's a new supply chain management process where you have so many SKU options and you are making these purchase decisions sometimes thousands a day and that impacts everything down the road excellent gr storm and co-founder of cloud ability talking about Finn ops and cloud abilities role in helping businesses map the cloud spend to their business activities for a better more optimal views of how they get what they need out of their cloud expenditures Jr thanks very much for being on the connects here and once again I'm Peter burrows and thanks for listening to this acute conversation until next time [Music] you

(upbeat music) >> Live, from Barcelona, Spain, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live!, Europe, brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back to Barcelona, this is Cisco Live 2019, and you're watching theCUBE, the worldwide leader in live tech coverage. I'm Stu Miniman, my cohost Dave Vellante and John Furrier is here, three days wall-to-wall coverage, and we are absolutely thrilled to welcome to the program, for the first time the CIO of Cisco, Guillermo Diaz, Jr., also a senior vice president. Thank you so much for joining us. >> Thanks for having me. >> What's your key priority today, some of the big challenges that you're focused on, Guillermo? >> Yeah, so I think the key challenges are really around. I would say for me it starts, it's in between, and it ends with the people. And I think it's the cultural shift that happens along this journey as well so, a lot of folks says, "yeah, we're IT, we're the leaders "in technology in the company." And I think moving from that back office to, now every business, the foundation of which, if you're going to be a digital company, is technology, so who in the company is the best suited to really help that conversation is IT. So IT is now becoming part of the business transformation of every business, whether you're in technology, like myself, whether you're in oil and gas, whether you're in retail, whether you're in finance, etc. Technology's driving the digital business transformation. So, it's really about how, that we not only use technology, but what is the impact on our processes, how we digitize, if you will. But more importantly is, how do you bring the people? How do you cultivate the best people and talent so that you can actually move up the stack, and it's not easy for someone that's been hugging routers for many, many years, and now you tell them, "Hey, you have to do drive programmability." And they're like, "What does that mean?" Well you have to learn >> Python and Ansible >> Yeah. >> Code that infrastructure. >> Now you need to code this thing because you need to provide that thing you provided in eight weeks, now you have to provide it in eight minutes. >> Right. >> And that's a big shift in mindset as well. >> Yeah, so, Guillermo, I know that STEM is a passion of yours, talk to us a little bit about that pipeline, and we love large technology companies like Cisco is to, how do you get down to not just the universities, but even some of the more elementary schools and help make sure that they're ready so that when, we're not sitting here saying, "I've got thousands of jobs and nobody "that is prepared to take that job." >> Yeah, well again, when you think about what you just said, with STEM, well what are you cultivating? You're cultivating the pipeline of people, and the more people that you have trained up in those technologies, and we do a lot with not only universities, but even below, even before university. We have a program, a work-study program that we have in Cisco IT, and we have several partners, one of which is called Cristo Rey Academy, and what we do is, part of the curriculum is four days a week you go to school, one day a week you work at Cisco. And these are kids from 14 years old to 17, 18. And they are learning now, some of these kids come from really low income or underserved communities, and now they're coming in and they're learning about, "How do I set up a wireless infrastructure? "How do I set up a telepresence environment?" And when they walk out, they're not only going to a university that they never thought of going to, like Cornell or like Humboldt State or whatever it might be, but they also have this skill, they also have this experience, because now you're putting them in an environment, and they're like sponges, and it's amazing what we can do, and now you fast forward that into a university pipeline. We bring in about, in Cisco IT, and broadly across Cisco many more, but 200 university hires every year, and they're providing instant value, because they're challenging us. They're like, us dinosaurs, I don't like to think of myself as a dinosaur, but I've been there 19 years, and sometimes I think a certain way, and I have to unlearn some things, and when I hear these people talk, I'm learning and I'm relearning things, and I'm unlearning some things. >> Well if you surround yourself with millennials and gamers, you do learn new things, you can't help it. >> Yeah, you learn new ways of thinking, new design thinking methodologies, stuff like that. >> I want to ask you about the organization. When we get the CIOs of large technology companies on, a lot of times you guys have implemented best practice, and we get a lot of questions around, what's the right organization? For instance, do you guys have a Chief Data Officer? Do you have one? >> So, what is the right organization? >> Well, do you have a Chief Data Officer? >> First, I don't know that there's a right organization. >> Is that, you know right, put that in quotes, but so do you have a CDO? >> Yeah. >> And where does that CDO fit in the organization, what's your relationship with her or him? >> Yeah, so why I say there's not a right organization is, we didn't have a real focus on data. Data was the database crew, the people that did the big data platform, and one of the evolutions we did, in about 2015 we actually brought data up to the CIO level, and we said that that was going to be a strategic pillar, along with how do we simplify, how do we automate, how do we get the data insights to be able to make decisions and then secure our business. Those are the five pillars of our digital strategy. So data and the insight was the big key strategic pillar for us. And so that helped us really start to accelerate our agile motion into you know. And as we learned in the last year, we actually elevated that role. We actually moved it from IT into the next level of operations. >> So it's a peer level to you, is that right? >> So now we've taken that role from my team, which was the Chief Data, now it's the Chief Data Officer, named Shanthi Iyer, and Shanthi was working in my team, and now she's working under the COO, because we believe that data's such a critical asset. It's the oil, it's the fuel of the business. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's the foundation, so we've elevated it up to that level, and now, really driving it >> That's awesome. >> From a business perspective. >> Great. Guillermo, we've seen Cloud go through a lot of changes both as an industry as well as Cisco's relationship to what you've been building and where you've been partnering. How's that impacting things on the IT side? >> Oh, I think Cloud is, it's interesting, I get to talk to many of my peers. Every day I'm talking to one of my peers, and many of us go, "We have a Cloud-first strategy" or "We have a Cloud strategy." And a lot of times you'll go, "We have a Cloud Strategy." And it's like, "What's up in the? What's?" Because if you think about it, Cloud is in some data center somewhere, but the impact on that is pretty tremendous because there's so many now "Clouds". And they come in the form of Saas, they come in the form of infrastructure as a service, and so you have put a wrapper around it or it could get out of control. And for us, we have what we call a "multi-cloud strategy." Luckily, we learned Cloud early on, and we initially called it virtualization, right? So we automated network compute and storage, and that wasn't good enough, because then we needed to automate the application infrastructure level, and then we needed to automate how we actually deliver, so as we moved up the stack, we learned how to virtualize, or, fast-forward, how to Cloudify our environment, so we grew up in our private Cloud, and then we extended that to, Okay, now you can go provision if you need to, you can provision public Cloud services if you want to do experimentation or whatever the use case might be, but Cloud is now changing the business. We have to move fast, but at the same time, you have to be secure, because we have in Cisco, just to give you an idea, we have 442 applications in the Cloud. The question is, how do you stitch those together? How do you make them secure? Because data is traversing across that, so it's really about Cloud, data, and security, all in one wrapper that you have to be thinking about. >> Enforcing that consistent policy, the corporate edicts. So it's interesting, you talked about multi-cloud. We saw this week a number of announcements from Cisco around multi-Cloud, ACI anywhere, HyperFlex, At the Edge. Over the years we've seen innovations around, we were talking about this before, programmable infrastructure, are you a Petri dish for those products coming to market? >> We're Cava. We drink our own Cava >> Yeah, not dog food. >> No, we don't like dog food, we like Cava. So we call ourselves "Customer Zero", and so the first order of battle, though, is we have to run our business. We're running a 50 billion dollar business, and that's the first order of battle. The second is, oh by the way can we use our own, what we're talking about here, to run that 50 billion dollar business, and that's sort of our multiple hats that we wear. We're the enabler, but we're also a large consumer. And being able to put that together, we call it "Customer Zero." We used to say, "We're the first and best customer." But for us that's too late, so we said, "We need to be Customer Zero, we need to be the first to take on some of these solutions and products, so that we can provide feedback to our engineering teams, our sales teams, our services teams, but more importantly, how do we become the reference, and we have an IT management program going on right now where we're talking about a lot of these things to 800 customers for a three day period. So those are the kinds of things that we do. >> Right. >> So, we love to hear you're using the products, we're here in the DevNet zone, and we've been hearing a lot over the last four or five years, Susie Wee and the team, how does that >> Right, she's my other partner in crime. >> Great, so talk about how the developer movement, DevNet specifically, DevSecNet, how that impacts your business. >> Yeah, so again, if you go back to programmability, if you go back to Cloud, it's all about having the ability to put all of these components together, so that we can all be productive. And the skill of the future is How do I program this? How do I make all of these things work in the easiest way, and it's coding. And you look around here, and there's coding classes. There's basic coding classes, and a lot of times a network engineer goes, "Why do I need to do that?" And you start to influence them to say, "Well, you need to move up the stack. "You need to be the one that actually provides "an infrastructure in five seconds, versus five weeks, and in order to do that, "you need to develop these new skills." And what Susie and the team have done with DevNet has provided a platform for all of us, around the world, to be able to learn these things, and not just become the network engineer, but become the orchestrator of these capabilities, right? >> When you think about your portfolio. You know, obviously you've got an application portfolio, you've got 400 plus applications in Saas, many more, I'm sure, on Primm. We like to think of this framework of run the business, grow the business, transform the business, and I wonder if you could, first of all, does that framework make sense? It's simple, obviously, but how do you think about your business in terms of running, growing, and transforming, and how you allocate resources to those three areas? >> I think that's been the historical legacy model. And I think when you start to segment it that way, you start to segment innovation as well, because in run the business, as an example, maybe you heard this term, "AI Ops". >> Mm-hmm (affirmative) >> What is the future of operations? Well the future of operations is how do I take all of these monitoring tools that I have, the same thing I've done with network computing storage. How do I stitch them together so that I can actually correlate where an issue is? In order to do that, what we've done is we've taken our operation team, and we've now deployed them into the development teams. This is the, we're not calling it DevOps, it's called DevSecOps, because at the same time, we want you to have a mindset of security first. Think about, as your developing, think about security as you go through the process. So now the operator, the one that used to actually sit there and watch the thing go, now no, I want you to actually be the coder, so that the problem that you're looking for, that you're waiting for, that you're helping solve that proactively. And that you get new skills as well. So the same thing with the network engineer, the operations person now is learning about Python and Ansible and how to stitch the infrastructure, the application, the data, all of that, into more of a monitoring system. >> So what I'm hearing is that you're taking that notion of run the business, grow the business, transform the business, bring it together, and everybody's responsible for running the business, growing the business, and transforming the business. >> And you're responsible for innovation. >> So it's continuous innovation model versus a stovepipe segmentation model. >> Continuous innovation, continuous improvement, continuous learning. >> Guillermo, I want to give you the final word. Here we are at the beginning of 2019. When you talk to your peers, the CIOs out there, whether it be tech, enterprise, startups, what are some of the biggest challenges, biggest opportunities that are on their plate. >> Yeah, I think it's, we're in an interesting time in IT in the world, where technology's foundational to every business. So my call to action is, there's one organization in the company, in every company, that knows technology, and that's IT. And they know the infrastructure and they know the ops. So the more that we can put those together into helping solve the secure digital business transformation, and not just talking about it from a technology perspective, but how do we use that to really articulate and translate that into business outcomes. And there's a lot in that, it's how do we use our own technology, how do we change our skills? How do we unlearn some things to relearn how to communicate with the business so that we can learn to go faster. >> Guillermo Diaz, Jr, thank you so much for sharing the viewpoint of Cisco and the changing role of the CIO. Dave Vellante and I will be back with lots more coverage here from Cisco Live 2019, in Barcelona, Spain. Thanks so much for watching theCUBE. (futuristic music)