(bright music) >> Welcome back to Supercloud 22. I'm John Furrier, host of "theCUBE" with Dave Vellante, with the opening keynote conversation with Vittorio Viarengo. He's the Vice President of Cross-Cloud at VMware, Cube Alumni. Vittorio, great to see you. Thanks for coming on. >> Ah, my pleasure. >> So you're kicking off the Supercloud event. Again, a pilot. Again, we were texting just a few months ago around some of the momentum. You identified this right away. You saw it, you saw the momentum. What's the reality around supercloud? What's your perspective? >> Well, I think that we have to go back to the history of IT, over the last ever. I feel like in IT, we're always running after the developers. The developers, they're smart. They go for the path of least resistance, and they create innovations, and then the entire stacks moves around, and if you look at developers over the last, you know, 15 years, they've been going to the cloud, right? And the reason they're going for the cloud is, you now, they say software is eating the world. Is really who builds software? Developers, so I think it's developers are eating the world, and so initially, there was one game in town, so they went with AWS, but eventually, we got the multiple clouds, and now, the reality is that the applications there, it's how we make money, how we save money. They're running on multiple cloud, the 75% of the companies running on multiple clouds today, and so, I think that creates the new computing platform for the next, you know, 10 years, 15 years, and I think that that multi-cloud world brings tremendous advantages, as we just talked, but also some challenges, and it's prime to a simplification, and that's where we're trying. >> One of the things we observe is this abstraction layer across clouds to create a consistent experience for customers, and very importantly, as you point out, developers. So when you think about the history of abstractions, we see another one sort of forming in the 2020s, which is really different, as you pointed out, that we had in the 2010s, where there was really, you know, one main cloud. Now, you have all these clouds. What are your thoughts on the history of abstractions? >> Well, if you look at IT, we always needed abstraction to unleash the next level of growth, right? I grew up as a... I started my career as a C++ developer. So initially, you know, on Windows, if you wanted to open a window on the screen, you had to write 200 lines of code. Then the MFC library came in, and now, you still have to be a C++ developer, but now, with a one line of code, you can initiate, open the yellow world and start to build your applications, but it's only when Visual Basic comes along, then now, we get five millions developers building applications that are 20 years later, we're still using, okay? And then the list goes on and on, and in the application integration, we used to look at the bytes on the bus and say, "Okay, this is the customers, and we're going to map it to SAP," and then we went one level higher with SOA and web services and the rest of history, and then unleashed tremendous, you know, growth and look at, you know, how we now, you know, we be able to throw APIs, integrate anything, and so then the ultimate example of abstraction is virtualization. We made all these different servers and networking and storage look like one, and now, you know, and the business never cares if you're running SAP back on-prem on HP or some other piece of hard drive. They care that it runs, right? And so I think that now, we need to bring a level of abstraction in the cloud that not only abstracts the low level APIs at the highest level, but also uniforms and unify the APIs and the way do management and security across multiple cloud. >> Let's unpack that because I think the virtualization angle is interesting 'cause with virtualization enabled AWS. If you look at AWS' success, virtualization, the Hypervisor, got them going, and that established that value. Now, the new structural change is happening. How do you define that specifically? What is supercloud in your mind? >> So in our mind, supercloud is a set of cloud native services that, first of all... Let's unpack that and go back to the virtualization. Virtualization was a great way to do it on-prem and is no wonder that AWS and Azure, they did it on their cloud, right? But the lingo franca of the cloud is not the virtualization layer. That's taken, it's hidden. It's down there, it just does its thing. The lingo franca of cloud is microservices, API, Kubernetes as the orchestration layer, and one would think, "Okay, now, we have Kubernetes, life is good. I just, you know, deploy on- Well, there are six, seven, eight Kubernetes distribution, and so to us, the supercloud is the ability to take, to factor out the common things that you can do across cloud and give you a single pane or glass to manage your application and single pipeline so you can build your application once and deploy it consistently across multiple clouds, and then, basically, factor out the other two important things with the security and observability of the application. >> One of the trade-offs of abstraction, you go back to the mainframe. They had to squeeze out the performance overheads. VMware had to do the same and done a tremendous job of it. So are we going to see that across clouds with multi-cloud or what we call supercloud. Are you going to see a trade-off? What trade-off do you see that the industry, technically, has to attack? >> Abstractions are always about trade-offs, right? You're trading off the speed. You know, I'm writing C++ code goes really fast for scale. You know, now, I have five million developers writing applications, but I think, eventually, what happens is that or you're trading off specialized skills for, you know, more valuable skills, and if I had a dollar every time I heard, "Oh, we cannot run Oracle Databases on virtualization," well, or the JVM is too slow, but guess what? How many Java developers, how many Java application are running out on the JVM? So I think, eventually, there will be trade-offs, but the technology catches up and it's a matter of like how much value are you getting in terms of scales and saving cost versus maybe the performance trade-off you were making on the lower level. >> On the evolution of hybrid cloud, 'cause right now, hybrid cloud is a steady state. People see that clearly, you know, on-premise and Edge, right around the corner. Public native cloud, there's benefits to be in the native cloud. How does multi-cloud fit? 'Cause by default, people have multiple clouds. If they run on Azure, they probably have some sort of productivity software with Microsoft or other Microsoft products, but it's best to breed. It's not yet connected. So multi-cloud has kind of become a default kind of thing. It's not yet a strategy in some people's minds, yet some people are thinking about it. So we think, and I think you might agree, that multi-cloud will happen, multiple clouds in the sense of workloads running seamlessly. Is that a pipe dream or is that near in our future? (men laugh) >> So there is a lot of unpack there. First of all, our definition of multi-cloud is that because most customers are operating their on-prem as the cloud, so the moment you have your on-prem cloud and AWS, your multi-cloud, so 75%, 85% going to 85%- >> You mean Private Cloud on-premise cloud operations? >> Yeah, and then you have another cloud, you're already multi-cloud. >> I'm assuming the experiences is identical, right? That's the assumption you- >> Well, initially, it's not identical, right? That's why you need a supercloud, right? >> Yeah, exactly. >> And most customers though are in denial, meaning that I see them being in five stages of acceptance or adoption of the multi-cloud. One is denial. We are on-prem and maybe we have one cloud. We're standardized. The second one is euphoria. Oh, look, you know, look how fast we go. All these developers are happy to do whatever they want, and then the third one is like, holy crap. They got the first bill. They realize that the security share responsibility model to deal with. They realize that somebody is to deploy this application and manage the application. Nobody does it for them, and then they go into like, (indistinct). Okay, now, we need to do something about this, right? It's a new normal, and then you end up with the enlightment, right? Now, we're really being productive and strategic about how we use multi-cloud. Very, very few customers are in that stage. Most customers are still within the denial and the new normal, and within the spectrum, you see multi-cloud as, "Okay, I have an application here, an application there. Okay, great, big deal." The next level is, "Okay, I have an application here that uses a pieces of a service of an application over there. Okay, now, I'm coordinating application. I'm using microservices," and then the third stage is like, "Okay, I am designing my application to use multiple services or multiple cloud because each uses differentiated features of that particular cloud." >> Is it part of the problem too, Vittorio, that the industry, the technology industry, you guys have not caught up. The cloud vendors aren't solving that problem. What's VMware doing to solve that problem? >> So we have seen this coming four or five years ago, right? That's why we acquired Pivotal, and then we made a number of acquisition around it because we saw that... Well, let's go back. What is VMware DNA? If you look, I've been running engineering, product management in the company then I moved to the dark side, more on the marketing side, but I've seen, and I sweat with those engineers, and when I look at those engineers, these people know how to make stuff that was not designed to work together work together and deliver value, and so if we go back to, you know, on-prem, we did it with virtualization. In the cloud, we did a new level of abstraction, which is, you know, at the APIs at the... And so over the last five years, we built what we believe is very comprehensive portfolio that unified how you build, you run, manage, secure, and access any application across any cloud. No Hypervisor required. >> So that's the game changer right there. So let me ask you a question. How does the choice factor come in because can VMware do all this or do they need to rely on partners? Because most customers have HashiCorp and other companies in there doing services for them as well. So how do you see the multi-partner strategy approach? Can you do it alone or are you going to need help from the ecosystem? >> First of all, if you look at the success of your event today, look how many vendors from multiple backgrounds and multiple level of the stack that are coming together to talk about the supercloud. So that to me is success already, and, of course, there are tremendous companies that are going to deliver fantastic value for, you know, management like HashiCorp or security and the development experience. Our approach is to bring them together as an integrated platform, and I think VMware has both the DNA and the muscles, the investment to be able to pull that off. >> Okay, you saw Keith Townsend. He had that very cool blackboard, and he called, this was maybe eight or nine months ago, he called the supercloud and VMware's multi-cloud vision aspirational. When is this going to be real? >> I think it's absolutely real today in some of the pieces. Right, there's always an aspiration. You have to look at a company like VMware as a company that looks out five, 10 years, right? You know, we have Raghu as our CEO, you know, which is a technical visionary, and so he saw five years ago, the advent of multi-cloud, and we invested in first part of the stack. What is it? How to build applications natively in the cloud using Tanzu. So with Tanzu, you can build application, manage Kubernetes cluster, secure, creating this service match, and so that's the reality today. Then on the next step is security. We recently announced our security approach. We have a very peculiar position in the stack to be able to see security, not just on the endpoint, not just, you know, in the application, but in between, right? By looking at all the Hypervisor, if you're using Hypervisor. You looking at East-West traffic with NSX and cross cloud networks, and so these are the three main places that are in place today, right? And then I cannot spoil our user conference coming in a couple of weeks where we're going to make more announcement around the supercloud, which we called cross-cloud services. >> Vittorio, I remember in 2016, I interviewed Andy Jassy and Raghu when they announced the deal with VMware. VMware and AWS had the relationship, and you're running on the cloud on AWS VMware, and you look at what's happened since, and this is where the supercloud conversation starts to kick in where Amazon's really good at moving bits around and optimizing the power and the silicon of the infrastructure, which means that the higher level services are going to be much more open for people to innovate around. So Dave calls it, the super pass. This area platform is a service to change the SaaS game. So I have to ask you, how do you see the SaaS game changing with supercloud? Because if you have a Private Cloud or Edge, you're now multiple clouds, technically, as you pointed out. How has that changed the SaaS configuration? Because SaaS and IaaS and PaaS had great relationships in native clouds to solve problems. Now, you have the multi-cloud. How do you see this platform as a service area changing or maybe enabling? >> So I think that that's where the innovation, the ability to aggregate common... Because look, there is a reason why people use multiple cloud, right? They choose it because they have differentiated features. So we don't want to ever hide those features, like if you're using Google, because you need AI capabilities, absolutely. We don't want to prevent that, right? But at the PaaS level, you know, when you are orchestrated these microservices, you don't want to do it in five different ways, right? So those are the areas where I think are prime for aggregation and simplification. How you, you know, look at all this Kubernetes environment and being able to monitor your application and force security policies, both from a resource consumption, this group of developers can only use this many resources, but also a run time that you don't run out of like, you know, you get that bill shock, and so those are the areas where I think there's this more ability for us to innovate and deliver value, not at the lower level which is taken by the- >> So you try to have your cake and eat it too, which is if you can pull that off it's game over, right? You have a specific set of cross-cloud services that are unique and value added that are differentiable in the industry, but at the same time, you're trying to give access to developers, if in fact, they want access to those primitives, right? >> Yeah. >> That's a bold aspiration. >> Well, we want to have the cake, eat it, and lose weight. (men laugh) But seriously, I think, going back to your point about the ecosystem, of course, we're not going to do it alone, right? If we were doing it alone, there is not a market, right? And so I think that the market is so big and the area of challenges for IT is so large that there's room for many companies to add value, and I think that, as I said, our approach is to, you know, we're a platform company, right? So you're going to find tremendous companies that will solve one problem for multiple clouds. You're going to find the hyperscaler that have a platform approach for one cloud. We like to think that we can position ourself in that two by two as the company that has a platform approach across multiple clouds. >> You know, it's great. That's where we've known each other for a long time. It's 12 years of "CUBE" coverage. Watching things like the CNCF emerge and do great work, watching cloud native kind of go that next level's been fun to watch, and the developers have had a great run. I mean, open sources booming, developer goodness is out there. People are shifting left, a lot of great stuff going with containers and Kubernetes. So looking good on the developer experience front right now, and I think it's only going to get better, but developers don't think about locking. They just want to get the job done. Move on to the next line of code. It's the ops teams that we're hearing from that are saying, "Hey, we love this, too, but we got to align with the developer." Level up, so to speak. So ops and security teams are saying, "Hey, I got to run this with automation with the higher level services." So there seems to be a focus around the supercloud conversation around ops teams. This is your wheelhouse, VMware. You guys do a lot of IT operations and things of that nature. How do you see that and what's the message cross-cloud brings to and supercloud brings to the development teams and the ops teams who are really going to be doing DevOps together and/or faster? >> I think if you go back to what where we started, right? Developers run the show, and I think there's been a little bit of inertia in IT organization on the op side and the security side in catching up to see how to catch up to where developers are, right? And with the DevOps revolution, if operators don't really understand what the developers need and get ahead of that, they're going to be left behind. So I'll give you an example, like SMB Global, one of our customers, their band runs their operation. Basically, told me I had to sit down and figure out what these developers were doing because I was being left behind and then or Cerner, one of our partners and customers, same thing they say, okay, we sat down. We realized that we needed to get ahead of the developers and set those guard rails, right? These are the Kubernetes environment you want to use? Okay, this is how we're going to set them up. This is want to make sure that we shift left security, that we have a single pipeline that feeds that, and Cerner, using our technology was able to... They made a business decision to move from one hyperscaler, was going to go unnamed to another hyperscaler, It was going to go unnamed, and they managed to change all the deployments in four hours. So that's the power of the supercloud, being able to say, "Hey, developers, do whatever you want, but these are the guard rails, and we're going to be able to like stay ahead of you and give you the flexibility, but also, make sure that operation and security, as a saying." >> Shift left shield right, basically. >> Awesome, awesome stuff. We've got 15 seconds. What is supercloud? What's the bumper sticker? >> The supercloud is a level of abstraction across any of the public clouds that allows developers to go fast, operators to make sense of what's happening, security to enforce security, and end users to access any application with a great user experience and security. >> And it's inclusive of on-prem. I'll just throw that in. (John laughs) >> All right, great stuff. Thanks for coming on. We're going to have a industry panel to talk about and debate Supercloud 22. We'll be right back after this break.

(upbeat music) >> Narrator: From New York, it's theCUBE. Covering Escape/19. (upbeat music) >> Okay, welcome back to theCUBE coverage in New York City for the inaugural multicloud conference called Escape/19. We're in New York City. Escape from New York City, escape from your cloud, multicloud is the reality. Armad Dadgar, he's here, the CTO Co-founder of HashiCorp, Cube Alumni, great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Yeah, great to see you. Thanks for having me back. >> So first of all, I just got to say congratulations on all your success, you guys have been doing extremely well as a business and you guys started out with a very pure mission, continues to be. You're getting some validation, market-place is spinning in your direction. You couldn't ask for kind of a better scenario. Kept doing it so congratulations. >> Thank you so much, it's been fun. >> So you guys are at the pinnacle of the confluence of automation meets you know, what developers care about. Just standing stuff up and getting stuff done. Infrastructure as code has been the ethos of cloud, dev-ops. Now we're on the horizon here at a cloud that's billing itself as the inaugural multicloud show. People have multiple clouds but they're not multiclouding so there's still a lot more work. But the best minds are here having conversations around, "What does that picture looks like? "What can we do foundationally? "What best practices and things you double-down on?" What's your take on all this? >> You know I think it's funny 'cause I think if you had this exact same conference three or four years ago everyone's take would have been like, "What multicloud?" Right? Like everyone's like, "Multicloud's not real, "it's only Amazon et cetera." And so it's funny now to actually be at a multicloud conference where's it's like nobody even questions the premise. Everyone's like, "Yeah, obviously we're going to be multicloud". Right? And I think what's happened is that you've seen maturity of the public clouds. So it's no longer just Amazon, there's multiple credible clouds. And I think the other piece of it is larger organizations are realizing multicloud's inevitable. You might say, "I'm going to go all-in on, "you know, cloud A, and then I buy a company that's cloud B, now I'm multicloud." And so I think the pragmatic reality for the kind of global 10,000 is you're going to be a mutlicloud company whether you want to or whether you don't. >> It's like multi-vendor in the old days. When I was growing up in the mini-computer networking days, you had multiple vendors. That's not a bad thing. >> Yeah. >> Just got to create some abstractions. I want to get your take on the work environment that's out there. You guys have been very successful, providing great tools, open-source and commercial for developers to stand stuff up and do their work. To operationalize multicloud, which is inevitable. >> Yep. >> How do you see that vision? I mean obviously, common workflows and workstreams but if I'm an IT guy or I'm a VP of IT or CSO or whatever, I got money. I don't want to fork my developer teams. I want my guys being productive, I'd love to have my own stacks on premises. I'd love to push APIs out to my vendors and say, "That's how we work together." So a modern thinking is going on. >> Right. >> How do you look at the operationalizing that next level? >> So, you know, what I just spoke about is sort of like when we talk about multicloud I think there's kind of four definitions of it. One is the notion of data portability. Which is, you know, perfect fit for database technology like Cockroach, right? The notion of I'm going to have data that exists in multiple clouds at the same time. Then you have the notion of workflow portability, right? Which is exactly I think what you're talking about. Which is, "Hey, if I'm a developer "building an app I don't care, "is it going to land on Amazon, "is it going to land on-premise, "is it going to go to Google? "I want one workflow. "For how do I do my, you know CICD? "How do I do my testing? "How do I do the deployment? "How do I monitor it, right? "what are the workflows in terms of delivery?" Because to your point if I'm the CIO, I don't want to invest in four different workflows, right? I want to train my team on one. I want to have a common way of delivering it. And that's a developer efficiency. I think there's the sort of Shangri-la of multicloud which is this idea of like workload migration. I'm going to push a button and move it from cloud-A to cloud-B. And I think for most organizations that's, you know very hard to architect for. It requires so much discipline. And I'm not sure it's actually practical for most organizations. 'Cause it means that's you can't really use any of the cloud's high value services. It means that you have to really architect everything for data portability, everything for workflow portability. And so I think what's reasonable is kind of exactly what you said, which is like-- >> Well the Shangri-La example is a good one. I mean, throw in SLAs on latency. I mean, you can't even get network latency is just so all over the map. So SLAs are, just, that's almost impossible. >> Yeah. It's-- >> At this point. So the low-hanging fruit is ultimately is data portability and workflows. >> Yeah. >> And preserving the developer focus. So what is your take on, I'd love to get your expert opinion on this, because people are investing in developers. And it's that there are people who are doing it well and some are not doing it very well. Meaning they've been relying on outsourced vendors. You know, this company's been providing all my dev. And we've been lean and mean. We got dashboard, we're pushing, provisioning servers. And I got the cloud, I got Amazon dashboard. But now, I can't really, crank anything craft out there. I need real developers. So you got great and poor. >> Right. >> What's the success point for having a good strong, enterprise developers? >> So you know I think what's interesting is those companies you're talking about that you're sort of used to outsourcing everything. For them, they never thought about software dev as a core competency, right? It's like "Oh I'm, you know, I'm a media company," Or, "I'm a retailer." It's not like competency. I'm just going to outsource to HP, IBM, whoever to do my dev work. And I think what's changing is as you think about dev ops as sort of this new digital economy it's that, no, the application is my value, right? Like, yes, maybe the product I end up delivering to you is a razor blade but my value is in the digital experience, the engagement. So I think your core competency has to become software development. And I think that that's that big shift, right? It's a bit of a top-down shift in terms of how do you think about the development group? And then I think from there it's bootstrapping a culture. It's bootstrapping sort of those core engineering teams. Like, to your point the kind of cloud-native practitioners. I think you have to foster that, sort of internal culture and community. But it's also a top-down investment. That's never going to work in a bottoms-up way if you don't foster the top-down investment and say, Actually, I'm going to think about this team as a revenue driver and not a cost center. >> It's interesting, I was just doing an exercise on the flight out from California here to the east coast. And I was look at all the different players that we cover. We cover, you know hundreds and hundreds of companies. And I was trying to put them in buckets. And then I was like,cloud-native, this is clearly the cloud-native bucket. People in the cloud-native, it's like we know who they are. Then I'm like, okay, enterprise, data center, no, hybrid, oh yeah, hybrid. Well are they hybrid? Hybrid IT? No, no, hybrid developer? So, I was just like trying to shoehorn in, like. So hybrid certainly is there. But hybrid IT is kind of losing favor on my list. It became hybrid developers. Meaning that IT wasn't like, categorically relevant in just how they were organizing. >> Right. >> They were either doing hybrid with developers, and then you had pure cloud-native which is just scale. >> Right. >> So those two worlds are coming together on the data. >> Right. >> Your reaction to that. >> Yeah, I mean that, to your point, that you can think about the sort of, the architecture, the application architecture I think as being distinct from the IT practices. Right, and think to your point you can live in this sort of weird world where you might have a cloud-native architecture but sort of a traditional IT practice. and I think maybe that that's what sort of a hybrid IT might look like. So I think that ultimately people want to migrate away from that into more of sort of a truly cloud-native dev ops sort of mentality. >> Well I think that one of the insights that's happening real-time with this conversation is that, if software is your core competency, then inherently IT is subsumed into it. Because in dev ops they are the IT. >> Right. >> Right, so. >> Right. You better be really good at it. Yeah, exactly, yeah. >> Yeah, so every company I mean I think ultimately that's the pivot in my mind is that if you're not going software digital then you might not make it. >> Yeah. >> Ultimately, because someone else will. >> Right, exactly. >> All right, talk about your success in HachiCorp. What's been the magic formula for you guys? If you had to look at. I know it's hard, and sometimes you get lucky. You guys have made your own breaks. You have a good philosophy, a good culture. But you had some tailwinds, you had some good, good trends at your back helping you. What's the big success formula for you guys? >> You know I think there's two big ones, right? I think that two is sort of bigger trends that we're sort of riding is that one is this notion of cloud-adoption. Right, like, you know, that's huge. The other one is this sort of app modernization of how do I go from traditional, ticket-driven process of delivering an app into dev ops, self-service agile delivery? And so I think that sort of modernization of the process is just as important as the modernization of the architecture from on-premise to cloud. Right, so I think that we're kind of riding both of those. And I think what's been really important for HashiCorp is sort of an ethos that I think has helped us, is this notion that we care a lot more about workflow than we care about the technology, right? 'Cause what's crazy to me is we're a small, you know, we're still a start-up, right? And so in the last six, seven years of our life if you look at 2012 and say, hey, what's changed from a technology standpoint since then? I'd say everything. 2012, you had one cloud, you didn't have Docker, you didn't have Containers, you didn't have Kubernetes, you didn't have serverless, you didn't have infrastructure as code, right? So, there's just sea-change after sea-change in terms of technology. But what hasn't changed is core workflow. And I think for us that investing was, hey, we're going to be a workflow-oriented company and those things don't change. Where if we say, "I'm going to be the best shop at delivering Java." And then Docker shows up. You know that's an existential threat to your business. >> Exactly. And I think that one of the things that we as a tech industry get into is speeds and feeds, the shiny new toy. And I think that's a great success formula. In fact I was just having a conversation with another technologist this past week. And we were talking about all the cool stuff's going on. He goes, John, John, forget about the workflow as one thing, as underpinning. There's things going on. That's automation there's some goodness there. He goes "But up the stack, machine learning, AI," "Forget all that, it's just the work load." So if you think about just work load and workflow. >> Right. >> Everything else should just fall into place. >> Exactly. >> And that's where the cloud, 2.0 is modernization is going. >> Right, so I think that the companies you've seen succeed are either, to your point, they're a new type of work load that exists in the cloud as a manage service. It's Confluent, it's Spark, right? It Cockroach that I can go consume as a service. Or you have the workflow vendors who have said, great, I'm going to give you a common, multi-cloud dev ops way of consuming that and deploying that workload out there. And I think those are sort of the two patterns that work. >> It's so exciting, this new wave, it's great. And it's just the beginning, ehrtr multi-cloud here. I got to get your take while you're here on cloud 2.0. It's something that I've been kicking around inside theCUBE team as a goof on Web 2.0. 'Cause Web 2.0 was a big goof, "Oh it's Web 2.0." And it caused a lot of fun. Cloud 1.0, if we just say is Amazon, compute, storage, not so much networking, but large scale born in the cloud goodness. Great. But now the reality of the enterprise and hybrid, things are emerging. Observability is important. Automation's important, workflows. How would you define cloud 2.0? What's the, if you had to take a stab at that kind of architectural definition. Where there's new subsystems emerging that are important. Like observability is just network management, but it's super important. >> Right. >> Automation, configuration management, but it's now automated. Those are now little white spaces that have become very important. >> Right. >> Where do you see the building blocks of cloud 2.0? >> So I think with cloud 1.0, I think it was characterized largely by like a lift and shift. Right, you said, okay, I can kind of see how it looks similar to my on-prem. I'm just going to lift and shift the same thing. Versus cloud 2.0 I think the phrase we like to use is it's multi-everything. Right, you're multi-cloud, right, it's multiple public cloud and on-prem. It's multi-platform. It's not just lift and shift of VM. It's great I have my VM-based workload, but I have my container, I have my Kubernetes, I have my serverless. So I have a ton of different platforms that I'm consuming. And it's also multi-service. Right, we talk about micro-service sort of patterns that's not just take my monolithic Java and move it to the cloud, it's decompose that one app into 50 services. Some are Container, some are serverless, some are VM. And mixing and matching all of that. So I think that 2.0 world is much more sort of dynamic. Much more sort of a diverse set of technologies that you're using. But to your point that brings in a bunch of enterprise reality of it's not managing one simple app anymore. There's a ton of complexity in managing the multi-cloud multi-platform nature of it. So I think there's a lot more investment in sort of management tooling and process to actually make that sort of sane. >> Well what's next for you guys? You guys are doing some great work, again, congratulations. HashiCorp has really earned great reputation, great user base, great following. People sing praises about your tools and software. What's next? What's it conquering next? >> I think you know, there's two things we recently announced. One was our sort of Terraform cloud service which was, Hey how do we take Terraform from just desktop tool? make it sort of a cloud experience where you can collaborate on it as a service. Sort of use APIs to hook it into your other systems. And similarly we announced a partnership with Microsoft on a console and Azure service. Right, so I think we're starting looking at that and saying really how do we kind of, you know. I think the irony of HashiCorp is, we're a cloud infrastructure company, but we sell desktop software. Right, like there's an obvious disconnect there. So I think how do we, sort of right that? And sort of say, okay, really people want to consume this stuff as a service. How do we meet them where they are? >> Offer both options. >> Exactly. >> Well, Armon, thanks a lot for coming on sharing. I know your super valuable time, coming on, appreciate it. >> Thanks so much. >> Good seeing you. HashiCorp here in theCUBE conversation, talking about what's going on in this dynamic world of modern infrastructure, modern software, where software's a core competence and multi-cloud reality's coming. CUBE covering is here, I'm John Furrier thanks for watching.

(lively music) >> Narrator: Live, from San Francisco, celebrating 10 years of high tech coverage, it's theCUBE, covering VMworld 2019! Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Okay, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage in VMworld 2019. We're in San Francisco. We're in Moscone North Lobby. I'm John Frer, my co Stu Miniman, here covering all the action of VMworld, two sets for theCUBE, our tenth year, Stu. Keeping it going. Two great guests, John Fanelli, CUBE Alumni, Vice President of Product, Virtual GPUs at NVIDIA Kevin Gray, Director of Product Marketing, Dell EMC. Thanks for coming back on. Good to see you. >> Awesome. >> Good to see you guys, too. >> NVIDIA, big news, we saw your CEO up on the keynote videoing in. Two big announcements. You got some stats on some Windows stats to talk about. Let's talk about the news first, get the news out of the way. >> Sure, at this show, NVIDIA announced our new product called NVIDIA Virtual Compute Server. So for the very first time anywhere, we're able to virtualize artificial intelligence, deep learning, machine learning, and data analytics. Of course, we did that in conjunction with our partner, VMware. This runs on top of vSphere and also in conjunction with our partner at Dell. All of this Virtual Compute Server runs on Dell VxRail, as well. >> What's the impact going to be for that? What does that mean for the customers? >> For customers, it's really going to be the on-ramp for Enterprise AI. A lot of customers, let's say they have a team of maybe eight data scientists are doing data analytics, if they want to move through GPU today, they have to buy eight GPUs. However, with our new solution, maybe they start with two GPUs and put four users on a GPU. Then as their models get bigger and their data gets bigger, they move to one user per GPU. Then ultimately, because we support multiple GPUs now as part of this, they move to a VM that has maybe four GPUs in it. We allow the enterprise to start to move on to AI and deep learning, in particular, machine learning for data analytics very easily. >> GPUs are in high demand. My son always wants the next NVIDIA, in part told me to get some GPUs from you when you came on. Ask the NVIDIA guy to get some for his gaming rig. Kidding aside, now in the enterprise, really important around some of the data crunching, this has really been a great use case. Talk about how that's changed, how people think about it, and how it's impacted traditional enterprise. >> From a data analytics perspective, the data scientists will ingest data, they'll run some machine learning on it, they'll create an inference model that they run to drive predictive business decisions. What we've done is we've GPU-accelerated the key libraries, the technologies, like PyTorch, XGBoost to use a GPU. The first announcement is about how they can now use Virtual Compute Server to do that. The second announcement is that workflow is, as I mentioned, they'll start small, and then they'll do bigger models, and eventually they want to train that scale. So what they want to do is they want to move to the cloud so they can have hundreds or thousands of GPUs. The second announcement is that NVIDIA and VMware are bringing Virtual Compute Server to VMware Cloud running on AWS with our T4 GPUs. So now I can scale virtually starting with fractional GPU to single GPU to multi GPU, and push a button with HCX and move it directly into AWS T4 accelerated cloud. >> That's the roadmap so you can get in, get the work done, scale up, that's the benefit of that. Availability, timing, when all of this is going to hit in-- >> So Virtual Compute Server is available on Friday, the 29th. We're looking at mid next year for the full suite of VMware Cloud on top of Aws T4. >> Kevin, you guys are supplier here at Dell EMC. What's the positioning there with you guys? >> We're working very closely with NVIDIA in general on all of their efforts around both AI as well as VDI too. We'll work quite a bit, most recently on the VDI front as well. We look to drive things like qualifying the devices. There's both VDI or analytics applications. >> Kevin, bring us up-to-date 'cause it's funny we were talking about this is our 10th year here at the show. I remember sitting across Howard Street here in 2010 and Dell, and HP, and IBM all claiming who had the lowest dollar per desktop as to what they were doing in VDI. It's a way different discussion here in 2019. >> Absolutely. Go ahead. >> One of the things that we've learned with NVIDIA is that it's really about the user experience. It's funny we're at a transition point now from Windows 7 to Windows 10. The last transition was Windows XP to Windows 7. What we did then is we took Windows 7, we tore everything out of it we possibly could, we made it look like XP, and we shoved it out. 10 years later, that doesn't work. Everyone's got their iPhones, their iOS devices, their Android devices. Microsoft's done a great job on Windows 10 being immersive. Now we're focused on user experience. When the VDI environment, as you move to Windows 10, you may not be aware of this, but from Windows 7 to Windows 10, it uses 50% more CPU, and you don't even get that great of a user experience. You pop a GPU in there, and you're good. Most of our customers together are working on a five-year life cycle. That means over the next five years, they're going to get 10 updates of Windows 10, and they're going to get like 60 updates of their Office applications. That means that they want to be future-proof now by putting the GPUs in to guarantee a great user experience. >> On the performance side too, obviously. In auto updates, this is the push notification world we live in. This has to built in from day one. >> Absolutely, and if you look at what Dell's doing, we really built this into both our VxRails and our VxBlocks. GPUs are just now part of it. We do these fully qualified. It stacks specifically for VDI environments as well. We're working a lot with the n-vector tools from VM which makes sure we're-- >> VDI finally made it! >> qualifying user experience. >> All these years. >> Yes, yes. In fact, we have this user experience tool called n-vector, which actually, without getting super technical for the audience, it allows you to look at the user experience based on frame-rate, latency, and image quality. We put this tool together, but Dell has really been taking a lead on testing it and promoting it to the users to really drive the cost-effectiveness. It still is about the dollar per desktop, but it's the dollar per dazzling desktop. (laughing) >> Kevin, I hear the frame-rate in there, and I've got all the remote workers, and you're saying how do I make sure that's not the gaming platform they're using because I know how important that is. >> Absolutely. There's a ton of customers that are out there that we're using. We look at folks like Guillevin as like the example of a company that's worked with us and NVIDIA to truly drive types of applications that are essential to VDI. These types of power workers doing applications like Autodesk, that user experience and that ability to support multiple users. If you look at Pat, he talked a little bit about any cloud, any application, any device. In VDI, that's really what it's about, allowing those workers to come together. >> I think the thing that the two of you mentioned, and Stu you pointed out brilliantly was that VDI is not just an IT thing anymore. It really is the expectation now that my rig, if I'm a gamer, or a young person, the younger kids, if you're under 25, if you don't have a kick-ass rig, (laughs) that's what they call it. Multiple monitors, that's the expectation, again, mobility. Work experience, workspace. >> Exactly, along those same lines, by the way. >> This is the whole category. It's not just like a VDI, this thing over here that used to be talked about as an IT thing. >> It's about the workflow. So it's how do I get my job done. We used to use words like "business worker" and "knowledge worker." It's just I'm a worker. Everybody today uses their phone that's mobile. They use their computer at home, they use their computer at work. They're all running with dual monitors. Dual monitors, sometimes dual 4K monitors. That really benefits as well from having a GPU. I know we're on TV so hopefully some of you guys are watching VDI on your GPU-accelerated. It's things like Skype, WebEX, Zoom, all the collaboration to 'em, Microsoft Teams, they all benefit from our joint solution, like the GPU. >> These new subsystems like GPUs become so critical. They're not just subsystem, they are the main part because the offload is now part of the new operating environment. >> We optimized together jointly using the n-vector tool. We optimized the server and operating environment, so that if you run into GPU, you can right-size your CPU in terms of cores, speed, etc., so that you get the best user experience at a most cost effective way. >> Also, the gaming world helps bring in the new kind of cool visualization. That's going to move into just the workflow of workers. You start to see this immersive experience, VR, ARs obviously around the corner. It's only going to get more complex, more needs for GPUs. >> Yes, in fact, we're seeing more, I think, requirements for AR and VR from business than we are actually for gaming. Don't you want to go into your auto showroom at your house and feel the fine Corinthian leather? >> We got to upgrade our CUBE game, get more GPU focused and get some tracing in there. >> Kevin, I know I've seen things from the Dell family on levering VR in the enterprise space. >> Oh, absolutely. If you look at a lot of the things that we're doing with some of the telcos around 5G. They're very interested in VR and AR. Those are areas that'll continue to use things like GPUs to help accelerate those types of applications. It really does come down to having that scalable infrastructure that's easy to manage and easy to operate. That's where I think the partnership with NVIDIA really comes together. >> Deep learning and all this stuff around data. Michael Dell always comes on theCUBE, talks about it. He sees data as the biggest opportunity and challenge. In whatever applications coming in, you got to be able to pound into that data. That's where AI's really shown... Machine learning has kind of shown that that's helping heavy lifting a lot of things that were either manual. >> Exactly. The one thing that's really great about data analytics that are GPU-accelerated is we can take a job that used to take days and bring it down to hours. Obviously, doing something faster is great, but if I take a job that used to take a week and I can do it in one day, that means I have four more days to do other things. It's almost like I'm hiring people for free because I get four more extra work days. The other thing that's really interesting as our joint solution is you can leverage that same virtual GPU technology. You can do VDI by day and at night, you run Compute. So when your users aren't at work, you migrate them off, you spin up your VMs that are doing your data analytics using our RAPIDS technology, and then you're able to get that platform running 24 by seven. >> Productivity gains just from an infrastructure. Even the user too, up and down, the productivity gains are significant. So I'll get three monitors now. I'm going to get one of those Alienware curved monitors. >> Just the difference we had, we have a suite here at the show, and just the difference, you can see such a difference when you insert the GPUs into the platform. It's just makes all the difference. >> John, I got to ask you a personal question. How many times have people asked you for a GPU? You must get that all the time? >> We do. I have a NVIDIA backpack. When I walk around, there's a lot of people that only know NVIDIA for games. So random people will always ask for that. >> I've got two sons and two daughters and they just nerd out on the GPUs. >> I think he's trying to get me to commit on camera on giving him a GPU. (laughing) I think I'm in trouble here. >> Yeah, they get the latest and greatest. Any new stuff, they're going to be happy to be the first on the block to get the GPU. It's certainly impacted on the infrastructure side, the components, the operating environment, Windows 10. Any other data you guys have to share that you think is notable around how all this is coming together working from user experience around Windows and VDI? >> I think one piece of data, again, going back to your first comment about cost per desktop. We're seeing a lot of migration to Windows 10. Customers are buying our joint solution from Dell which includes our hardware and software. They're buying that five-year life cycle, so we actually put a program in place to really drive down the cost. It's literally like $3 per month to have a GPU-accelerated virtual desktop. It's really great Value for the customers besides the great productivity. >> If you look at doing some of these workloads on premises, some of the costs can come down. We had a recent study around the VxBlock as an example. We showed that running GPUs and VDI can be up as much as 45% less on a VxBlock at scale. When you talk about the whole hybrid cloud, multi-cloud strategy, there's pluses and minuses to both. Certainly, if we look at some of the ability to start small and scale out, whether you're going HCI or you're going CI, I think there's a VDI solution there that can really drive the economics. >> The intense workloads. Is there any industries that are key for you guys in terms of verticals? >> Absolutely. So we're definitely looking at a lot of the CAD/CAM industries. We just did a certification on our platforms with Dassault's CATIA system. That's an area that we'll continue to explore as we move forward. >> I think in the workstation side of things, it's all the standard, it's automotive, it's manufacturing. Architecture is interesting. Architecture is one of those companies that has kind of an S and B profile. They have lots of offices, but they have enterprise requirements for all the hard work that they do. Then with VDI, we're very strong in financial services as well as healthcare. In fact, if you haven't seen, you should come by. We have a Bloomberg demo for financial services about the impact for traders. I have a virtualized GPU desktop. >> The speed is critical for them. Final question. Take-aways from the show this year, 2019 VMworld, Stu, we got 10 years to look back, but guys, take-aways from the show that you're going to take back from this week. >> I think there's still a lot of interest and enthusiasm. Surprisingly, there's still a lot of customers that haven't finished there migration to Windows 10 and they're coming to us saying, Oh my gosh, I only have until January, what can you do to help me? (laughing) >> Get some GPUs. Thoughts from the show. >> The multi-cloud world continues to evolve, the continued partnerships that emerge as part of this is just pretty amazing in how that's changing in things like virtual GPUs and accelerators. That experience that people have come to expect from the cloud is something, for me is a take-away. >> John Fanelli, NVIDIA, thanks for coming on. Congratulations on all the success. Kevin, Dell EMC, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for the insights. Here on theCUBE, Vmworld 2019. John Furrier, Stu Miniman, stay with us for more live coverage after this short break. (lively music)

>> from our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley. HOLLOWAY ALTO, California It is a cube conversation. >> Welcome to this Special Cube conversation here in Palo Alto, California at the Cube Studios at the Cube headquarters. I'm John for the host, like you were a Dustin Kirkland product manager and Google friend of the Cuban. The community with Cooper Netease been on the Cube Cube alumni. Dustin. Welcome to the Cube conversation. >> Thanks. John's a beautiful studio. I've never been in the studio and on the show floor a few times, but this is This is fun. >> Great to have you on a great opportunity to chat about Cooper Netease yet of what you do out some product man's working Google. But really more importantly on this conversation is about the fifth anniversary, the birthday of Cuba Netease. Today we're celebrating the fifth birthday of Cooper Netease. Still, it's still a >> toddler, absolutely still growing. You think about how you know Lennox has been around for a long time. Open stack has been around these other big projects that have been around for, you know, going on decades and Lenox this case and Cooper nineties. It's going so fast, but It's only five years old, you know. >> You know, I remember Adam Open Stack event in Seattle many, many years ago. That was six years ago. Pubes on his 10th year. So many of these look backs moments. This is one of them. I was having a beer with Lou Tucker. J J Kiss Matic was like one of the first comes at the time didn't make it, But we were talking about open stagger like this Cooper Netease thing. This is really hot. This paper, this initiative this could really be the abstraction layer to kind of bring all this cloud Native wasn't part of the time, but it was like more of an open stack. Try and move up to stack. And it turned out it ended up happening. Cooper Netease then went on to change the landscape of what containers did. Dr. Got a lot of credit for pioneering that got the big VC funding became a unicorn, and then containers kind of went into a different direction because of Cooper duties. >> Very much so. I mean, the modernization of software infrastructure has been coming for a long time, and Cooper nutty sort of brings it all brings it all together at this point, but putting software into a container. We've been doing that different forest for for a lot of time, uh, for a long time, but But once you have a lot of containers, what do you do with that? Right? And that was the problem that Cooper Nettie solved so eloquently and has, you know, now for a couple of years, and it just keeps getting better. >> You know, you mentioned modernization. Let's talk about that because I think the modernization the theme is now pretty much prevalent in every vertical. I'll be in D. C. Next week for the Amazon Webster was public sector Summit, where modernization of governments and nations are being discussed. Education, modernization of it. We've seen it here. The media business that were participating in is about not where you store the code. It's how you code. How you build is a mindset shift. This has been the rial revelation around the Dev Ops Movement Infrastructures Code, now called Cloud Native. Share your thoughts on this modernization mindset because it really is how you build. >> Yeah, I think the cross pollination actually across industries and we even we see that even just in the word containers, right and all the imagery around shipping and shipping containers, we've applied these age old concepts that have been I don't have perfected but certainly optimized over decades of, actually centuries or millennia of moving things across water in containers. Right. But we apply that to software and boom. We have the step function difference in the way that we we manage and we orchestrated and administer code. That's one example of that cross pollination, and now you're talking about, like optimizing optimized governments or economies but being able to maybe then apply other concepts that we've come a long way in computer science do de bop set a good example? You know, applying Dev ops principles to non computer feels. Just think about that for a second. >> It's mind blowing. And if you think about also the step function you mentioned because I think this actually changed a lot of the entrepreneurial landscape as well and also has shaped open source and, you know, big news this this quarter is map are going to shut down due one of the biggest do players. Cloudera merge with Horton Works fired their CEO, the founder Michael. So has retired, Some say forced out. I don't think so. I think it's more of his time. I'm Rodel still there. Open source is a business model, you know. Can we be the red hat for her? Duped the red? Not really kind of the viable, but it's evolving. So open source has been impacted by this step function. There's a business impact. Talk about the dynamics with step function both on the business side and on how software's built specifically open source. >> You know, you and I have been around open source for a long, long time. I think it started when I was in college in the late nineties on then through my career at IBM. And it's It's interesting how on the fringe open source was for so long and such so so much of my BM career. And then early time spent onside it at Red Hat. It was it was something that was it was different, was weird. It was. It was very much fringe where the right uh, but now it's in mainstream and it's everywhere, and it's so mainstream that it's almost the defacto standard to just start with open source. But you know, there's some other news that's been happening lately that she didn't bring up. But it's a really touchy aspect of open source right now on that's on some of the licenses and how those licenses get applied by software, especially databases. When offered as a service in the cloud. That's one of the big problems. I think that that's that we're we're working within the open >> source, summarize the news and what it means. What's what's happening? What's the news and what's the really business? Our technical impact to the licensing? What's the issue? What's the core issue? >> Yeah, eso without taking judgment any any way, shape or form on this, the the the TL D are on. This is a number of open source database is most recently cockroach D. B. I have adopted a different licensing model that is nonstandard from an open source perspective. Uh, and from one perspective, they're they're adopting these different licensing models because other vendors can take that software and offered as a service, yes, and in some some cases, like Amazon like Sure, you said, uh, and offered as a as a service, uh, and maybe contribute. Maybe pay money to the smaller startup or the open source community behind it. But not necessarily. Uh, and it's in some ways is quite threatening to open source communities and open source companies on other cases, quite empowering. And it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. The tension between open sourcing software and eventually making money off of it is something that we've we've seen for, you know, at least 25. >> And it continues to go on today, and this is, to me a real fascinating area that I think is going to be super important to keep an eye on because you want to encourage contribution and openness. Att the same time we look at the scale of just the Lenox foundations numbers. It's pretty massive in terms of now, the open source contribution. When you factor in even China and other nations, it's it's on exponential growth, right? So is it just open source? Is the model not necessarily a business? Yeah. So this is the big question. No one knows. >> I think we crossed that. And open source is the model. Um, and this is where me is a product manager. That's worked around open source. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how to create commercial offerings around open source. I spent 10 years at Economical, the first half of which, as an engineer, the second half of which, as a product manager around, uh, about building services, commercial services around 12 And I learned quite a few things that now apply absolutely to communities as well as to a number of open source startups. That that I've advised on DH kind of given them some perspective on maybe some successful and unsuccessful ways to monetize that that opens. >> Okay, so doesn't talk about Let's get back to Coburg. And so I think this is the next level Talk track is as Cooper Netease has established itself and landed in the industry and has adoption. It's now an expansion votes the land adopted expand. We've seen adoption. Now it's an expansion mode. Where does it go from here? Because you look at the tale signs things like service meshes server. Listen, you get some interesting trends that going to support this expansionary stage of uber netease. What is your view about the next expansion everyway what >> comes next? Yeah, I I think I think the next stage is really about democratizing communities for workloads that you know. It's quite obvious where when communities is the right answer at the scale of a Google or a Twitter or Netflix or, you know, some of these massive services that it is obviously and clearly the best answer to orchestrating containers. Now I think the next question is, how does that same thing that works at that massive scale Also worked for me as a developer at a very small scale helped me develop my software. My small team of five or 10 people. Do I need a coup? Burnett. He's If I'm ah five or 10 person startup. Well, I mean, not the original sort of borde vision of communities. It's probably overkill, but actually the tooling has really advanced, and we now >> have >> communities that makes sense on very small scales. You've got things like a three s from from Rancher. You've got micro Kates from from my colleagues at economical other ways of making shrinking communities down to something that fits, perhaps on devices perhaps at the edge, beyond just the traditional data center and into remote locations that need to deploy manage applications >> on the Cooper Netease clustering the some of the tech side. You know, we've seen some great tech trends as mentioned in Claudia Horton. Works and map Our Let's Take Claudia and Horton work. Remember back in the old days when it was booming? Oh, they were so proud to talk about their clusters. I stood up all these clusters and then I would ask them, Well, what do you doing with it? Well, we're storing data. I think so. That became kind of this use case where standing up the cluster was the use case and they're like, OK, now let's put some data in it. It's a question for you is Coburn. Eddie's a little bit different. I'm not seeing they were seeing real use cases. What are people standing up? Cuban is clusters for what specific Besides the same Besides saying I've done it. Yeah, What's the what's the main use case that you're seeing this that has real value? >> Yeah, actually, there's you just jog t mind of really funny memory. You know, back in those big data days, I was CEO of a startup. We were encrypting data, and we were helping encrypt healthcare data for health care companies and the number of health care companies that I worked with at that time who said they had a big data problem and they had all of I don't know, 33 terabytes worth of worth of data that they needed to encrypt. It was kind of humorous sometimes like, Is that really a big, big data problem? This fits on a single disc, you know, Uh, but yeah, I mean, it's interesting how >> that the hype of of the tech was preceding. The reality needs needs, says Cooper Nettie. So I have a Cuban Eddie's cluster for blank. Fill in the blank. What are people saying? >> Yeah, uh, it's It's largely about the modernization. So I need to modernize my infrastructure. I'm going to adopt the platform. That's probably not, er, the old er job, a Web WebSphere type platform or something like that. I'm investing in hardware investing in Software Middle, where I'm investing in people, and I want all of those things to line up with where industry is going from a software perspective, and that's where Cooper Nighties is sort of the cornerstone piece of that Lennox Of course, that's That's pretty well established >> canoes delivery in an integration piece of is that the pipeline in was, that was the fit on the low hanging fruit use cases of Cooper Netease just development >> process. Or it's the operations it's the operations of now got software that I need to deploy across multiple versions, perhaps multiple sites. Uh, I need to handle that upgrade ideally without downtime in a way that you said service mash in a way that meshes together makes sense. I've got a roll out new certificates I need to address the security, vulnerability, thes air, all the things that Cooper and I used to such a better job at then, what people were doing previously, which was a whole lot of four loops, shell strips and sshh pushing, uh, pushing tar balls around. Maybe Debs or rpm's around. That is what Cooper not he's actually really solves and does an elegant job of solving as just a starting point. And that's just the beginning and, you know, without getting ve injury here, you know, Anthros is the thing that we had at Google have built around Cooper Netease that brings it to enterprise >> here the other day did a tweet. I called Anthem. I just typing too fast. I got a lot of crap on Twitter for that mission. And those multi cloud has been a big part of where Cubans seems to fit. You mentioned some of the licensing changes. Cloud has been a great resource for a lot of the new Web scale applications from all kinds of companies. Now, with several issues seeing a lot more than capabilities, how do you see the next shift with data State coming in? Because God stateless date and you got state full data. Yeah, this has become a conversation point. >> Yeah, I think Kelsey Hightower has said it pretty eloquently, as he usually does around the sort of the serval ist movement and lets lets developers focus on just their code and literally just their code, perhaps even just their function in just their piece of code, without having to be an expert on all of the turtles all the way, all the way down. That's the big difference about service have having written a couple of those functions. I can I can really invest my time on the couple of 100 lines of code that matter and not choosing a destro choosing a cougar Nati is choosing, you know, all the stack underneath. I simply choose the platform where I'm gonna drop that that function, compile it, uploaded and then riff and rub. On that >> fifth anniversary, Cooper Netease were riffing on Cooper Netease. Dustin Circle here inside the Cube Cube Alumni you were recently at the coop con in overseas in Europe, Barcelona, Barcelona, great city. Keeps been there many times. Do was there covering for us. Couldn't make this trip, Unfortunately, had a couple daughter's graduating, so I didn't make the trip. Sorry, guys. Um, what was the summary? What was the takeaway? Was the big walk away from that event? What synthesized? The main stories were the most important stories being >> told. >> Big news, big observations. >> It was a huge event to start with. It was that fear of Barcelona. Um, didn't take over the whole space. But I've been there a number of times from Mobile World Congress. But, you know, this is this is cube con in the same building that hosts all of mobile world Congress. So I think 8,000 attendees was what we saw. It's quite celebratory. You know, I think we were doing some some pre fifth birthday bash celebrations, Key takeaways, hybrid hybrid, Cloud, multi Cloud. I think that's the world that we've evolved into. You know, there was a lot of tension. I think in the early days about must stay on. Prem must go to the cloud. Everything's there's gonna be a winner and a loser and everything's gonna go one direction or another. I think the chips have fallen, and it's pretty obvious now that the world will exist in a very hybrid, multi cloud state. Ultimately, there's gonna be some stuff on Prem that doesn't move. There's going to be some stuff better hosted in one arm or public clouds. That's the multi cloud aspect, Uh, and there will be stubborn stuff at the edge and remote locations and vehicles on oil rigs at restaurants and stores and >> so forth. What's most exciting from a trans statement? What do you what? What's what's getting you excited from what you see on the landscape out there? >> So the tying all of that to Cooper Netease, Cuban aunties, is the thing that basically normalizes all of that. You write your application put it in a container and expect to communities to be there to scale that toe. Operate that top grade that to migrate that over time. From that perspective, Cooper nineties has really ticked, ticked all the boxes, and you've got a lot of choices now about which companies here, you're going to use it and where >> beyond communities, a lot of variety of projects coop flow, you got service messes out there a lot of difference. Project. What's What's a dark horse? What's something that sets out there that people should be paying attention to? That you see emerging? That's notable. That should be paying attention. To >> think is a combination of two things. One is pretty obvious, and that's a ML is coming like a freight train and is sort of the next layer of excitement. I think after Cooper, Netease becomes boring, which hopefully if we've done our jobs well, that communities layer gets settled and we'll evolve. But the sort of the hockey stick hopefully settles down and it becomes something super stable. Uh, the application of machine learning to create artificial intelligence conclusions, trends from things that is sort of the next big trend on then I would say another one If you really want the dark horse. I think it's around communications. And I think it's around the difference in the way that we communicate with one another across all forms of media voice, video chat, writing, how we interact with people, how we interact with our our tools with our software and in fact, how our software in Iraq's with us in our software acts with with other software that communications industry is, it's ripe for some pretty radical disruption. And you know some of the organizations and they're doing that. It's early early days on those >> changes. Final point you mentioned earlier in our conversation here about how Dev Ops is influencing impacting non tech and computer science. Really? What did you mean by that? >> Uh, well, I think you brought up unexpectedly and that that you were looking at the way Uh, some other industries are changing, and I think that cross pollination is actually quite quite powerful when you take and apply a skill and expertise you have outside of your industry. But it adds something new and interesting, too, to your professional environment. That's where you get these provocative operations. He's really creative, innovative things that you know. No one really saw it coming. >> Dave Ops principles apply to other disciplines. Yeah, agility. That's that's pointing down waterfall based processes. That's >> one phenomenal example. Imagine that for governments, right to remove some of the like the pain that you and I know. I've got to go and renew my license. My birthday's coming up. I gotta go to renew my driver's license. You know much. I'm dreading going to the the DMV Root >> Canal driver's license on the same. Exactly >> how waterfall is that experience. And could we could we beam or Mohr Agile More Dev Autopsy and some of our government across >> the U. S. Government's procurement practices airbase upon 1990 standards they still want Request a manual, a physical manual for every product violent? Who does that? >> I know that there are organizations trying to apply some open source principles to government. But I mean, think about, you know, just democracy and how being a little bit more open and transparent in the way that we are in open source code, the ability to accept patches. I have a side project, a passion for brewing beer and I love applying open source practices to the industry of brewing. And that's an example of where use professional work, Tio. Compliment a hobby. >> All right, we got to bring some cubic private label, some Q beer. >> If you like sour beer, I'm in the sour beer. >> That's okay. We like to get the pus for us. Final question for you. Five years from now, Cooper needs to be 10 years old. What's the world gonna look like when we wake up five years from now with two Cuban aunties? >> Yeah, I think, uh, I don't think we're struggling with the Cooper nutties. Uh, the community's layer. At that point, I think that's settled science, inasmuch as Lennox is pretty settled. Science, Yes, there's a release, and it comes out with incremental features and bug fixes. I think Cuban aunties is settled. Science management of of those containers is pretty well settled. Uh, five years from now, I think we end up with software, some software that that's writing software. And I don't quite mean that in the way That sounds scary, uh, and that we're eliminating developers, but I think we're creating Mohr powerful, more robust software that actually creates that that software and that's all built on top of the really strong, robust systems we have underneath >> automation to take the heavy lifting. But the human creation still keeping one of the >> humans Aaron the look it's were We're many decades away from humans being out of the loop on creative processes. >> Dustin Kirkland, he a product manager of Google Uh, Cooper Netease guru also keep alumni here in the studio talking about the coup. Burnett. He's 50 year anniversary. Of course, the kid was president creation during the beginning of the wave of communities. We love the trend we love Cloud would left home a tec. I'm Sean for here in Palo Alto. Thanks for watching.

(upbeat music) >> From our studios in the heart of Silicon Valley, Palo Alto, California, this is a CUBE conversation. >> Hello everyone, welcome to Palo Altos Cube Studios for CUBE Conversation. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE. We're with Kevin Ackroyd, CEO of Cision, CUBE Alumni. He's been on before. Building one of the most compelling companies that's disrupting and changing the game in Comms, advertising, PR, with Cloud technologies. Kevin, great to see you again, thanks for coming in. >> Likewise John, It's really good to be back. >> So, we haven't chatted in two years. You've been busy. Our last conversation was the beginning of 2017. Cision's done a lot of interesting things. You've got a lot of M and A under your belt. You're putting this portfolio together with Cloud technologies. Really been interesting. I really got to say I think you cracked the code on I think a new reality, a new economic reality. Also new capabilities for comms folks. Congratulations. >> Thank you, it's been a fun ride. >> So give us the update. So two years since we talked, how many deals, companies have you bought? What's the headcount, what's the revenue? Give us an update. >> In the four years, 12 acquisitions, seven of which have happened since I've been here. Up to 4,500 employees in over 40 countries. Customer count has grown to over 50,000 customers globally. Revenue's kind of gone from 500s to just shy of 800 million. A lot of leadership changes, and as you just mentioned, pretty seismic change, finally. We've certainly been the catalyst and the cattle prod for that seismic change around tech, data, measurement and analytics finally becoming mature and adopted inside this line of business like the Chief Communication Officer, the earn media folks. To say that they were not tech savvy a few years ago would be an understatement. So, a lot's been going on. >> Yeah, and certainly the trend is your friend, in my opinion, for you. But I think the reality is not yet upon people's general mindset. It's coming quickly, so if you look at some of the big trends out there. Look at fake news, look at Facebook, look at the Google effect. Elizabeth Warren wants to break up Big Tech, Amazon. Cloud computing, in that time period that you were, prior to just going to Cision, you had Oracle Cloud, done a lot of great things on the Marketing Cloud side. But the timing of Cloud computing, the timing of how media has changed. There's not many journalists anymore. We had Andy Cunningham, a legendary industry veteran, formerly of Cunningham Communications. He did the PR for Steve Jobs. You said, there's no more journalists, a few left, but you got to tell your story direct to the consumer. >> You do. >> This is now a new marketing phenomenon. This is a tailwind for you at Cision because you guys, although put these cubbies together, have a unique vision around bringing brand value advertising at PR economics. >> Yeah, that's a good way to put it. >> Tell us the vision of Cision and specifically the shift that's happening. Why are you guys important? What wave are you riding? >> So, there's a couple shifts, John. You and I have talked about this in previous programs There's this shift of the line of business, having to work in a whole bunch of non-integrated point solutions. The CFO used to live in 17 different applications from 17 vendors. That's all squished together. Now I buy from one Cloud platform, right, from Oracle or SAP. Same thing happened in Human Capital Management. 22 things squished into the Cloud, one from Workday, right. Same thing happened, you had 25 different things for sales and service. That all squished together, into one CRM in the Cloud, I buy from Salesforce, right. And our last rodeo, the early part of this stack, it was me and Adobe battling it out for the right to go squish the entire the LUMAscape into a marketing cloud, right, so there could be one ring to rule them all for the CMO. So, it happens in every single category. It just hasn't had over here, happened on the earned media side and the Chief Communications Officer. So, bringing the tech stack so that now we are for the CCO what Adobe is for the CMO what Salesforce is for the CRO, Workday is for the CHRO. That has to happen. You can't do, you can't manage it this way without sophisticated tech, without automation, without integration, you can't do it. The second thing that had to happen, especially in marketing and advertising, they all figured out how to get revenue credit. Advertising was a slow single-digit CAGR industry for 50 years. And then something happened. After 5% CAGR for 50 years, and then something happened over the next 10 years. Digital paid went from like 15 billion to 150 billion. And what happened is that old, I know half my advertising is wasted on this one half. That went bye-bye. Now I know immediately, down to the page, down the ad unit, down to this, exactly what worked, right. When I was able to put Pixels on ads, John, you'd go to that page, Pixel would go on you, It would follow you around If you ended up putting something in the e-commerce shop that ad got credit. I'm not saying that's right, I'm just saying that's how the entire-- >> But that's how the infrastructure would let you, allowed you, it enabled you to do that. Then again, paid advertising, paid search, paid advertising, that thing has created massive value in here. >> Massive value. But my buyer, right, so the person that does the little ad on the most regional tech page got credit. My buyer that got Bob Evans, the Cloud King, to write an article about why Microsoft is going to beat AWS, he's a credible third party influencer, writing objectively. That article's worth triple platinum and has more credibility than 20,000 Microsoft sales reps. We've never, until Cision, well let's Pixel that, let's go figure out how many of those are the target audience. Let's ride that all the way down to the lead form that's right. Basically it's super simple. Nobody's ever tracked the press releases, the articles or any of the earned media content, the way people have tracked banner ads or e-commerce emails. Therefore this line of business never get revenue credit. It stayed over here in the OpEx pile where things like commerce and advertising got dumped onto the revenue pile. Well, you saw the crazy investment shift. So, that's really the more important one, is Comms is finally getting quantified ROI and business's attribution like their commerce and advertising peers for the first time ever in 2018 via what Cision's rolled out. That's the exciting piece. >> I think, I mean, I guess what I hear you saying is that for the first time, the PR actually can be measured, similar to how advertising >> You got it. >> Couldn't be measured then be measured. Now PR or communications can be measured. >> They get measured the same way. And then one other thing. That ad, that press release, down to the business event. This one had $2 million dollars of ad spend, this one had no ad spend. When it goes to convert, in CRM or it goes to convert on a website, this one came from banner ad, this one came from credible third party content. Guess which one, not only had zero ad spend instead of $2 million in ad spend. Guess which one from which source actually converts better. It's the guy that chose to read credible third-party article. He's going to convert in the marketing system way better that somebody who just clicked on the ad. >> Well certainly, I'm biased-- >> So all the way down the funnel, we're talking about real financial impact based on capturing earned media ID, which is pretty exciting. >> Well, I think the more exciting thing is that you're basically taking a value that is unfunded quote by the advertising firm, has no budget basically, or thin budgets, trying to hit an organic, credible outlet which is converting in progression to a buyer, an outcome. That progression is now tracked. But let's just talk about the economics because you're talking about $2 million in spend, it could be $20 million. The ratio between ad spend and conversion to this new element you mentioned is different. You're essentially talking about the big mega trend, which is organic content. Meaning connecting to sources. >> That's right. >> That flow. Of course, we believe and we, at the Cube, everyone's been seeing that with our business. Let's talk about that dynamic because this is not a funded operationalized piece yet, so we've been seeing, in the industry, PR and comms becoming more powerful. So, the Chief Communication Officer isn't just rolling out press releases, although they have to do that to communicate. You've got medium posts now, you've got multiple channels. A lot of places to put the story. So the Chief Communication Officer really is the Chief Storyteller Officer, Not necessarily the CMO. >> Emphatically. >> The Martech Stack kind of tracking. So talk about that dynamic. How is the Chief Communication Officer role change or changing? Why is that important and what should people be thinking about, if they are a Chief Communication Officer? >> You know, it's interesting. There's a, I'm just going to call it an actual contradiction on this front. When you and I were getting out of our undergrad, 7 out of 10 times that CCO, the Chief Communication Officer, worked for the CEO and 30% of time other. Yet the role was materially narrow. The role has exploded. You just said it pretty eloquently. This role has really exploded and widened its aperture. Right now though 7 out of 10 of them actually do work for the CMO, which is a pretty interesting contradiction. And only 30% of them work for the CEO. Despite the fact that from an organizational stand point, that kind of counter intuitive org move has been made. It doesn't really matter because, so much of what you just said too, you was in marketing's purview or around brand or around reputation or around telling the story or around even owning the key assets. Key assets isn't that beautiful Budweiser frog commercial they played on Super Bowl anymore. The key assets are what's getting done over in the communications, in part. So, from a storytelling standpoint, from an ownership of the narrative, from a, not just a product or a service or promotion, but the whole company, the whole brand reputation, the goodwill, all of that is comms. Therefore you're seeing comms take the widest amount of real estate around the boardroom table than they've ever had. Despite the fact that they don't sit in the chair as much. I mentioned that just because I find it very interesting. Comms has never been more empowered, never had a wider aperture. >> But budget wise, they're not really that loaded up with funding. >> And to my earlier point, it's because they couldn't show. Super strategic. Showing ROI. >> So, showing ROI is critical. >> Not the quality of clippings. >> It was the Maslow of Hierarchy of Needs if you can just show me that I put a quarter in and I got a dollar out. Like the ads and the e-commerce folks do. It simply drives the drives me. >> So take us through some of those analytics because people who know about comms, the old school comms people who are doing this, they should really be thinking about what their operation is because, can I get an article in the Wall Street Journal? Can Silicon Angle write about us? I've got to get more clippings. That tend to be the thing. Did we get the press release out on time? They're not really tied into some of the key marketing mix pieces. They tend to be kind of a narrow scope. Those metrics were pretty clear. What are the new metrics? What's the new operational playbook.? >> Yeah, we call those Vanity Metrics. I cared about theoretical reach. Hey, Yahoo tells me I reached 222 billion people, so I plug in 222 billion people. I reached more people than there are on the planet with this PR campaign. I needed to get to the basic stuff like how many people did I actually reach, number one. But they don't, they do theoretical reach. They work in things like sentiment. Well, I'm going to come up with, 100 reporters wrote about me. I'm going to come up with, how many of them I thought were positive, negative, neutral. Sentiment analysis, they measure number of reporters or hits versus their competitors and say, Proctor and Gamble rolled out this diaper product, how did I do this five days? How much did Proctor and Gamble diapers get written about versus Craft diapers versus Unilever's. Share a voice. Not irrelevant metrics. But not metrics the CEO and the CFO are going to invest in. >> Conversion to brand or sales, those kind of things? >> They never just never existed. Those never existed. Now when we can introduce the same exact metrics that the commerce and the ad folks do and say, I can tell you exactly how many people. I can tell you exactly who they were, demographic, firmographic, lifestyle, you name it. I can tell you who the audience is you're reaching. I can tell you exactly what they do. When those kind of people read those kind of articles or those kind of people read those kind of press releases, they go to these destinations, they take these behaviors. And because I can track that all the way down to whatever that success metric is, which could be a lead form if I'm B2B for pipe. It could be a e-commerce store from B2C. It could be a rating or review or a user generation content gourd. It could be a sign up and register, if I'm trying to get database names. Whatever the business metric is. That's what the commerce and the ad people do all day every day. That's why they are more funded than ever. The fact that press releases, articles, tweets, blogs, the fact that the earned media stuff has never been able to do those things is why they just continue to suffer and have had a real lack of investment prices going on for the last 20 year. >> Talk about the trend around-- >> It's simple stuff. >> I know, if you improve the ROI, you get more budget. >> It really is that simple. >> That's been the challenge. I think PR is certainly becoming, comms is becoming more powerful. People know I talk about it all the time. I think comms is the new CMO I think command and control and organic content work together in the organic. We've seen it first hand in our business. But, it's an issue of tech savviness and also vision. A lot of people just are uncomfortable shifting to the new realities. >> That's for sure. >> What are some of the people tech savvy look at when they look at say revamping comms platform or strategy versus say old school? >> I'll give you two answers on that, John. Here is one thing that is good for us, that 7 out of 10 to the CCOs work for the CMO. Because when I was in this seat starting to light that fire under the CMO for the first time, which was not that long ago, and they were not tech savvy, and they were not sophisticated. They didn't know how to do this stuff either. That was a good 10 year journey to get the CMO from not sophisticated to very sophisticated. Now they're one of the more sophisticated lines of business in the world. But that was a slog. >> So are we going to see a Comms Stack? Like Martech, ComTech. >> ComTech is the decision communication Cloud, is ComTech. So we did it. We've built the Cloud stack. Again like I said, just like Adobe has the tech stack for marketing, Cision has the tech stack for comms, and we've replicated that. But because the CCO works for the CMO and the CMO's already been through this. Been through this with Ad Techs, been through this with MarTech, been through this with eCommerce, been through this with Web. You know, I've got a three or four year sophistication path this time just because >> The learnings are there >> The company's already done it everywhere else. The boss has already done it everywhere else. >> So the learnings are there from the MarTech so it's a pretty easy leap to take? >> That's exactly right. >> It's just-- >> How CommTech works is shocking. Incredibly similar to how MarTech and AdTech work. A lot of it is the same technology, just being applied different. >> That's good news >> So, the adoption curve for us is a fantastic thing. It's a really good thing for us that 70% of them work for CMOs because the CMO is the most impatient person on the planet, to get this over because the CMO is sick of doing customer journeys or omni channel across just paid and owned. They recognize that the most influential thing to influence you, it's not their emails, it's not their push notifications, It's not their ads. It's recognizing which credible third-party content you read, getting them into that, so that they're influencing you. >> It's kind of like Google PageRank in the old days. This source is more relevant than that one, give it more weight. >> And now all of a sudden if I have my Cision ID, I can plug in the more weight stuff under your profile. I want to let him go across paid and owned too, I materially improve the performance of the paid and owned because I'm putting in the really important signal versus what's sitting over there in the DMP or the CDP, which is kind of garbage. That's really important. >> I really think. >> I thinks you've got a home run here. I think you've really cracked the code on this. I think you are absolutely right on the money with comms and CommsTech. I see it all the time. In my years of experiences, it's so obvious. Then again, the tailwind is that they've been through the MarTech. The question I have for you is cultural shift. That's a big one. So, I'm out evangelizing all the time about the CUBE Cloud and some of the things we're doing. I run into the deer in the headlights on one side, what do you mean? And then people like, I believe, I totally understand. The believers and the non believers. What's the cultural shift? Because some chief comms op, they're very savvy, progressive, we've got to make the shift. How do they get the ship to turn? What are some of the cultural challenges? >> And boy is that right. I felt the same thing, getting more doing it with the CMO. A lot of people kept their head in the sand until they got obsoleted. They didn't know. Could they not see the train coming? They didn't want to see the train coming. Now you go look at the top 100 CMOs in the world today. Pretty different bunch than who those top 100 CMOs were 10 years ago. Really different bunch. History's repeating itself over here too. You've got the extremely innovative CCOs that are driving that change and transformation. You've got the deer in the headlight, okay, I know I need to do this, but I'm not sure how, and you do have your typical, you know, nope, I've got my do not disturb sign and police tape over my office. I won't even let you in my door. I don't want to hear about it. You've got all flavors. The good news is we are well past the half point where the innovators are starting actually to deploy and show results, the deer in the headlights are starting to innovate, and these folks are at least opening up the door and taking down some tape. >> Is there pressure on the agency side now? A lot of agencies charge a lot of monthly billings for these clients, the old school thing. Some are trying to be progressive and do more services. Have you seen, with the Cision Cloud and things that you're doing, that you're enabling, those agencies seem to be more productive? >> Yes. >> Are the client's putting pressure on those agencies so they see more value? Talk about the agency dynamic. >> That's also a virtuous cycle too, right? That cycle goes from, it's a Bell Curve. At the beginning of the bell curve, customers have no clue about the communications. They go to their agencies for advice. So, you have to educate the agencies on how to say nice things about you. By the time you're at the Bell Curve, the client's know about the tech or they've adopted the tech, and the agencies realize, oh, I can monetize the hell out of this. They need strategy and services and content and creative and campaign. This is yet another good old fashioned >> High gross profit. >> A buck for the tech means six bucks for me as the service agency. At the bottom, over here, I'll never forget this when we did our modern marketing experiences, Erik, the CMO of Clorox said, hey, to all you agencies out there, now that we're mature, you know, we choose our our agency based on their fluency around our tech stack. So it goes that violently and therefore, the agencies really do need to try to get fluent. The ones that do, really reap rewards because there is a blatant amount of need as the line of business customer tries to get from here to here. And the agency is the is the very first place that that customer is going to go to. >> So, basically the agency-- >> The customer has first right of refusal to go provide these services and monetize them. >> So, the agency has to keep up. >> They certainly do. >> Because, if the game gets changed by speed, it's accelerated >> If they keep up, yup. >> Value is created. If they don't have their running shoes on, they're out. >> If they keep up and they stay fluent, then they're going to be great. The last thing back in the things. We've kind of hit this. This is one of those magic points I've been talking about for 20 years. When the CFO or the CEO or the CMO walk down to the CCOs office and say, where are we on this, 'cause it's out in the wild now, there are over 1200 big brands doing this measurement, Cision ID, CommsTech stuff. It's getting written about by good old fashioned media. Customer says, wow, I couldn't do this for 50 years, now I am, and look what I just did to my Comms program. That gets read. The world's the same place as it always has been. You and I read that. We go down to our comms department and say, wow, I didn't know that was possible, where are we on this? So the Where Are We On This wave is coming to communications, which is an accelerant. >> It's an accountability-- >> Now it's accountability, and therefore, the urgency to get fluent and changed. So now they're hiring up quantums and operations and statisticians and database people just like the marketers did. The anatomy of a communications department is starting to like half science half art, just like happened in marketing. Whereas before that, it was 95% art and 5% science. But it's getting to be 50/50. >> Do you have any competition? >> We have, just like always. >> You guys pretty much have PR Newswire, a lot of big elements there. >> We do. >> You've got a good foothold. >> This is just an example. Even though Marketo is part of Adobe, giant. And Eloqua is part of Oracle, giant and Pardot is part of Salesforce. You've got three goliaths in marketing automation. Hubspot's still sticking around. PeerPlay, marketing Automation. You can just picture it. CRM giants, Microsoft and Salesforce have eaten the world Zendesk's still kicking around. It's a little PeerPlay. That equivalent exists. I have nobody that's even one fifth as big as I am, or as global or complete. But I do have some small, point specific solution providers. They're still hanging out there. >> The thing is, one, first you're a great leader. You've seen the moving on the marking tech side. You've got waves of experience under your belt. But I think what's interesting is that like the Web 1.0, having websites and webpages, Web 2.0 and social networks. That was about the first generation. Serve information, create Affiliate programs, all kind of coded tracking. You mentioned all that. I over-simplified it, but you get the idea. Now, every company needs a new capability. They need to stand up media infra structure. What does that mean? They're going to throw a podcast, they're going to take their content, put them into multiple channels. That's a comms function. Now comms is becoming the new CMO-like capability in this earned channel. So, your Cloud becomes that provisioning entity for companies to stand up capabilities without waiting. Is that the vision? >> You've nailed it. And that is one of the key reasons why you have to have a tech stack. That's a spot on one, another one. Early in my career, the 20 influences that mattered, they were all newspaper reporters or TV folks. There was only 20 of them. I had a Rolodex. so I could take each one of them out for a three Martini lunch, they'd write something good about me. >> Wish is was that easy now. >> Now, you have thousands of influencers across 52 channels, and they change in real time, and they're global in nature. It's another example of where, well, if you don't automate that with tech and by the way. >> You're left behind. >> If you send out digital content they talk back to you in real time. You have to actually not only do influencer identification, outreach and curation, you've got to do real time engagement. >> There's no agility. >> There's none. >> Zero agility. >> None, exactly. >> There's no like Dev Ops mindset in there at all. >> Then the speed with which, it's no longer okay for comms to call the agency and say, give me a ClipBook, I've got to get it to my CEO by Friday. That whole start the ClipBook on Tuesday, I've got to have the ClipBook, the physical ClipBook on the CEO as an example. Nope, if I'm not basically streaming my senior executives in real time, curated and analyzed as to what's important and what it means, I can't do that without a tech stack. >> Well, Andy Cunningham was on the Cube. >> This whole thing has been forced to get modernized by cloud technology and transformation >> Andy Cunningham, a legend in the comms business who did all Steve Jobs comms, legend. She basically said on The Cube, it's not about waiting for the clips to create the ClipBook, create your own ClipBook and get it out there. Then evaluate and engage. This is the new command and control with digital assets. >> Now, it's become the real-time, curated feed that never stops. It sure as hell better not. Because comms is in trouble if it does. >> Well this is a great topic. But let's have you in this, I can go deep on this. I think this is a really important shift, and you guys are the only ones that are on it at this level. I don't think the Salesforce and the Adobe yet, I don't think they're nimble enough to go after this wave. I think they're stuck on their wave and they're making a lot of money. >> You know John, paid media and owned media. The Google Marketing Cloud, that SAP Marketing Cloud, Adobe, Oracle, Salesforce Marketing Clouds. They don't do anything in earned. Nothing. This is one of the reasons I jumped because I knew this needed to happen. But, you know, they're also chasing much bigger pots of money. Marketing and Advertising is still a lot more money. We're working on it to grow the pie for comms. But, bottom line is, they're chasing the big markets as I was at Oracle. And they're still pretty much in a violent arms race against each other. Salesforce is still way more focused on what Adobe's doing. >> You're just on a different wave. >> So, we're just over here doing this, building a billion dollar cloud leader, that is mission critical to everyone of their customers. They're going to end up being some pretty import partners to us, because they've been too focused on the big arms race against each other, in paid and owned and have not had the luxury to even go here. >> Well I think this wave that you're on is going to be really big. I think they don't see it, in my opinion, or can't get there. With the right surfboard, to use a surfing analogy, there's going to be a big wave. Thanks for sharing your insights. >> Absolutely. >> While you're here, get the plug in for Cision. What's going on, what's next? What's the big momentum? Get the plug in for the company. What are you guys still going to do? >> Plugin for the company. The company has acquired a couple of companies in January. You might see, one of which is Falcon. Basically Falcon is one of the big four in the land of Hootsuite, Sprinklr, Spredfast. Cloud companies do this. Adobe has Creative Cloud, Document Cloud, Parking Cloud. Salesforce has Sales Cloud, Service Cloud, Marketing Cloud. Cision has just become a multi cloud company. We now have the Cision Social Cloud and the Cision Communications Cloud. And we're going to go grab a couple hundred million dollars of stuff away from Sprinklr, Hootsuite and collapse social into this. Most of social is earned as well. So, look for a wing spread, into another adjacent market. I think that's number one. Then look for publishing of the data. That's probably going to be the most exciting thing because we just talked about, again our metrics and capabilities you can buy But, little teaser. If we can say, in two months here's the average click through on a Google ad, YouTube ad, a banner ad, I'll show it to you on a Blog, a press release, an article. Apples to apples. Here is the conversion rate. If I can start becoming almost like an eMarketer or publisher on what happens when people read earned, there's going to be some unbelievable stats and they're going to be incredibly telling, and it's going to drive where are we on that. So this is going to be the year. >> It's a new digital advertising format. It's a new format. >> That's exactly right. >> It's a new digital advertising format. >> And its one when the CEO understands that he or she can have it for earned now, the way he's had it for marketing and advertising, that little conversation walking down the hall. In thousands of companies where the CCO or the VP of PR looks up and the CEO is going where are we on that? That's the year that that can flip switches, which I'm excited about. >> Every silo function is now horizontally connected with data, now measured, fully instrumented. The value will be there and whoever can bring the value gets the budget. That's the new model. Kevin Ackroyd, CEO of Cision, changing the game in the shift around the Chief Communications Officer and how that is becoming more tech savvy. Really disrupting the business by measuring earned media. A big wave that's coming. Of course, it's early, but it's going to be a big one. Kevin, thanks for coming on. >> My pleasure, John, thank you. >> So, CUBE conversation here in Palo Alto Thanks for watching. >> Thanks John. (upbeat music)

>> Live from Barcelona, Spain. It's the queue covering Sisqo, Live Europe. Brought to you by Cisco and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back, Everyone Live here in Barcelona, Spain's two Cubes Coverage of Sisqo Live Europe. Twenty nineteen. I'm John Foreal echoes David Lock. Our next guest is Liz Santoni, senior vice president general manager of the Eye Okay Group at Cisco, formerly is part of the engineering team Cube Alumni. Great to see you again. Thanks for coming >> on. Great to be here, >> so you're >> just good to see you guys. >> You're in the centre. A lot of news. I ot of the network redefining networking on stage. We heard that talk about your role in the organization of Sisko and the product that you now have and what's going on here. >> So run R I O T business group similar to what we do with the end data center off that it has the engineering team product management team. We build products solutions that includes hardware, software, silicon. Take him out to market. Really an eye. OT It's about, you know, the technology conversation comes second. It's like, What can you deliver in terms of use, case and business outcomes that comes first, and it's more about what technology can enable that. So the conversations we have with customers are around. How can he really solve my kind of real problems? Everything from one a girl, my top line? I want to get closer to my customers because the closer I get to my customers, I know them better. So obviously can turn around and grow my top line. And I want to optimize everything from internal process to external process because just improves my bottom line at the end >> of the day. So you a lot of news happening here around your team. But first talk about redefining networking in context to your part, because edge of the network has always been what is, you know the edge of the network. Now it's extending further. I. O. T. Is one of those things that people are looking at a digit digitization standpoint, turning on Mohr intelligence with the factory floor or other areas. How how are how is I ot changing and what is it today? >> So you gave an example of, you know, digitizing something like a factory floor, right? So let's talk about that. So what customers in the factory floor want to do. They've already automated a number of this factory floors, but what they want to do is get more efficient. They want better eo. They want better quality. They want to bring security all the way down to the plant floor because the more and more you connect things, the more you just expanded your threat surface out pretty significantly so they want to bring security down to the plant floor. Because the's are environments that are not brand new, they have brown feel equipment there, green field equipment. They want to be able to have control of where what device gets in the network. With things like device profiling, they want to be able to do things like create zones so that they could do that with things like network segmentation. So when and if an attack does happen, they can contain the attack as much as possible. All right now what you need in terms ofthe a factory floor, automation, security, to be able to scale tohave that flexibility That's no different than what you have in the Enterprise already. I mean, we've been working with our idea and enterprise customers for years, and, you know, they it's about automation and security. It's about simplicity. Why not extend that out? The talent that it has, the capability that has it really is a connective tissue, that you're extending your network from that carpeted space, or you're clean space into outside of the office or into the non carpeted space. So it's perfect in terms of saying it's about extending the network into the nontraditional space that probably it doesn't go into today. >> Well, right. And it's a new constituency, right? So how are you sort of forging new relationships, new partnerships? What is described, what that's like with operations technology? >> I mean, that Cisco. We have great partnerships with the Tea organisation. I mean, we've got more than eight hundred forty thousand customers and our sales teams are product. Teams do a good job in terms of listening to customers. We're talking more and more to the line of business. We're talking more and more to the operational teams >> because of the end of >> the day. I want to be candid. You know, going to a manufacturing floor. I've never run a plan. Floor right? There are not very many people in the team who conceived in a plant manager before they know they're processes. They're concerned about twenty four seven operation. Hey, I want to be in compliance with the fire marshal, physical safety of my workers. We come in with that. I p knowledge that security knowledge that they need it's a partnership. I mean, people talk about, you know, t convergence. Usually convergence means that somebody's going to lose their job. This is Maura Night, an OT partnership, and most of these digitization efforts usually come in for the CEO level. Laura Chief Digitization Officer. We've got good relationships there already. Second part is Sister has been in this. We're quite some time. Our team's already have relationships at the plant level at the grid level operator level. You know, in the in the oil and gas area what we need to build more and more of that because building more and more that is really understanding. What business problems are they looking to solve? Then we can bring the technology to it. >> Liz, what's that in the Enable Menu? Mission Partnership? That's a good point. People, you know, someone wins, someone loses. The partnership is you're enabling your bringing new capability into the physical world, from wind wind farms to whatever What is the enablement look like? What are some of the things that happen when you guys come into these environments that are being redefined and reimagined? Or for the first time, >> Yeah, I would say, you know, I use what our customers said this morning and what he said was, it has the skills that I >> need, all right. >> They have the eyepiece skills. They have a security seals. These are all the things that I need. I want my guys to focus on kind of business processes around things that they know best. And so we're working with a CZ part of what we're putting this extended enterprise extending in ten based networking to the i o T edge means ight. Hee already knows our tools are capabilities. We're now saying we can extend that Let's go out, figure out what those use cases are together. This is why we're working with the not just the working with our channel partners as well. Who can enable these implementations on i o t implementations work? Well, >> part of >> this is also a constant, you know learning from each other. We learned from the operational teams is that hey, you can start a proof of concept really well, but he can really take it to deployment unless you address things around the complexity, the scale and the security. That's where we can come in and help. >> And you can't just throw your switches and routers over the fence. And so okay, here you go. You have to develop specific solutions for this world, right? And when you talk about that a little bit, absolutely. So >> if you look at the networking industrial networking portfolio that we have, it's built on the same catalysts, itis our wireless, a peace, our firewall. But they're more customized for this non carpeted space, right? You've got to take into consideration that these air not sitting in a controlled environment, so we test them for temperature, for shock, for vibration. But it's also built on the same software. So we're talking about the same software platform. You get the same automation features you get, the same analytics features. It's managed by DNA center. So even though we're customizing the hardware for this environment, the software platform that you get is pretty much the same, so it can come in and manage both those environments. But it also needs an understanding of what, What's the operational team looking to solve for? >> Because I want to ask you about the psychology of the buyer in this market because OT there run stuff that's just turn it on. But in the light ball, make it work. Well, I got to deploy something, so they're kind of expectations might be different. Can you share what the expectations are for the kind of experience that they wanna have with Tech? >> I used a utility is a great example and our customer from energy. I think, explain this really well, this is thing that we learned from our customers, right? I haven't been in a substation. I've been in a data center multiple times, but I haven't been in a substation. So when they're talking about automating substation, we work with customers. We've been doing this over the last ten years. We've been working with that energy team for the last two years. They taught us, really, how they secure and managing these environments. You're not going to find a CC in this environment, So when you want to send somebody out to like sixty thousand substations and you want to check on Hey, do do I still have VPN connectivity? They're not going to be able to troubleshoot it. What we did is based on the customer's ask, put a green light on there and led that shines green. All the technician does is look at it and says it's okay. If not, they called back in terms of trouble shooting it. It was just a simple example of where it's. It's different in terms of how they secure and manage on the talent that they have is different than what's in the space. So you've got to make sure that your products also cover what the operational teams need because you're not dealing with the C. C A. Or the I P experts, >> a classic market fit product market fit for what they're expecting correct led to kick around with green light. I mean, >> you know, everybody goes that such an easy thing inside was >> not that perceptive to us. >> What's the biggest thing you've learned as you move from Cisco Engineering out to the new frontier on the edge here? What? What are the learnings that you've seen actually growing mark early. It's only going to get larger, more complicated, more automation. Morey, I'm or things. What's your learning? What have you seen so far? That's the takeaway. >> So I'll see, you know, be I'm still an Cisco Engineering. The reason we're in Coyote is that a secure and reliable network that it's the foundation of any eye. Ot deployment, right? You can go out and best buy the best sensor by the best application by the best middle where. But if you don't have that foundation that's secure and reliable, those, Iet projects are not going to take off. So it's pretty simple. Everyone's network is thie enabler of their business outcome, and that's why we're in it. So this is really about extending that network out, but at the same time, understanding. What are we looking to solve for, right? So in many cases we worked with third party party hers because some of them know these domains much better than we do. But we know the AIP wear the eye patch and the security experts, and we bring that to the table better than anybody else. >> And over the top, definite showing here for the second year that we've covered it here in definite zone, that when you have that secure network that's programmable really cool things and develop on top of it. That's what great opportunity >> this is. I'm super excited that we now have an i o. T. Definite in. You know, it's part of our entire Cisco. Definite half a million developers. You know, Suzy, we and team done a fabulous job. There's more and more developers going to be starting to develop at the I o. T edge at the edge of the network. Right. So when you look at that is our platforms today with dioxin saw on top of it. Make this a software platform that developers Khun can actually build applications to. It's really about, you know, that we're ready. Highest fees and developers unleashing those applications at the i o. T edge. And with Susie making that, you know, available in terms of the tools, the resource is the sand box that you can get. It's like we expect to see more and more developers building those applications at the >> edge. We gotta talk about your announcements, right? Oh, >> yeah. Exciting set >> of hard news. >> So we launch for things today as part of Extending Ibn or in ten based networking to the I. O. T. S. The first one is we've got three new Cisco validated design. So think of a validated design as enabling our customers to actually accelerate their deployments. So our engineering teams try to mimic a CZ muchas possible a customer's environment. And they do this pre integration, pre testing of our products, third party products and we actually put him out by industry. So we have three new ones out there for manufacturing, for utilities and for mode and mobile assets. That's one. The second one is we're launching two new hardware platforms on next generation catalysts Industrial Ethernet switch. It's got modularity of interfaces, and it's got nine expansion packs. The idea is making as flexible as possible for a customer's deployment, because these boxes might sit in an environment not just for three years, like in a campus, they could sit there for five for seven for ten years. So, as you know, they are adding on giving them that flexibility that concave a bit based system and just change the expansion modules. We also launch on next generation industrial router. Actually, is the industries probably first and only full six capable industrial router, and it's got again flexibility of interfaces. We have lt. We have fiber. We have copper. You want deal? Lt. You can actually slap an expansion pack right on top of it. When five G comes in, you just take the Lt Munch a lot. You put five G, so it's five G ready >> engines on there >> and it's based on Io Exit us sexy. It's managed by DNA center and its edge enabled. So they run dialects. You, Khun, build your applications and load him on so >> you can >> build them. Third >> parties have peace here. >> The definite pieces. That third one is where we now have, you know, and I OT developer center in the definite zone. So with all the tools that are available, it enables developers and IAS peas, too. Actually, we build on top of Io Axe today. In fact, we actually have more than a couple of three examples that are already doing that. And the fourth thing is we depend on a large ecosystem of channel partners, So we've launched an Io ti specialization training program to enable them to actually help our customers implementation go faster. So those are the four things that we brought together. The key thing for us was designing these for scale flexibility and security >> capabilities available today. Is that right? >> Absolutely. In fact, if you go in worshipping in two weeks and you can see them at the innovation showcase, it's actually very cool. >> I was going to mention you brought ecosystem. Glad you brought that. I was gonna ask about how that's developing. I could only imagine new sets of names coming out of the industry in terms of building on these coyotes since his demand for Io ti. It's an emerging market in terms of newness, with a lot of head room. So what's ecosystem look like? Missouri patterns and Aya's vsv ours as they take the shape of the classic ecosystem? Or is it a new set of characters? Or what's the makeup of the >> island's ecosystem, >> I would say is in many ways, if you've been in the eye ot world for sometime, you'll say, You know, it's not like there's a whole new set of characters. Yes, you have more cloud players in there, you You probably have more s eyes in there. But it's been like the distributor's Arvin there. The machine builders thie ot platforms. These folks have been doing this for a long time. It's more around. How do you partner and where do you monetize? We know where you know the value we bring in we rely on. We work very closely with this OT partners machine builders s eyes the cloud partners to go to market and deliver this. You're right. The market's going to evolve because the whole new conversation is around. Data. What do I collect? What do I computer the edge? Where do I go around it to? Should I take it to my own premises? Data centers. Should I take it to the cloud who gets control over the data? How do I make sure that I have control over the data as a customer and I have control over who gets to see it? So I think this will be a revolving conversation. This is something we're enabling with one of our Connecticut platforms, which are not launch. It's already launched in terms of enabling customers to have control over the data and managed to bring >> all the portfolio of Cisco Security Analytics management to the table that puts anything in the world that has power and connectivity to be a device to connect into its system. This is the way it's just I mean, how obvious going Beat commits a huge >> I'm grateful that it's great that you think it's obvious. That's exactly what we're trying to tell our customers. >> How to do is >> about extending >> the way >> we do. It's the playbook, right? Each business has its own unique. There's no general purpose. Coyote is their correct pretty much custom because, um, well, thanks for coming on this. Appreciate it when I ask you one final question. You know, I was really impressed with Karen. Had a great session on wall kind of session yesterday. Impact with women. We interviewed you a Grace offered twenty fifteen. Cisco's doing amazing work. You take a minute to talk about some of the things that Cisco's doing around women in computing. Women in stem. Just great momentum, great success story, great leadership. >> I would say Look at her leadership at Chuck's level, and I think that's a great example in terms of He brings people on, depending on what they can, what they bring to the table, right? They just happened to be a lot of women out there. And the reality is I work for a company that believes in inclusion, whether it's gender race, different experiences, different a different thoughts, different perspective because that's what truly in terms of you can bring in the culture that drives that innovation. I've been sponsoring our women in science and engineering, for I can't remember the last for five years. It's a community that continues to grow, and and the reality is we don't sit in there and talk about, you know, what was me and all the things they're happening. What we talk about is, What are the cool new technologies that are out there? How do I get my hands on him? And yeah, there we talk about some things where women are little reticent and shy to do so. What we learn from other people's experiences, many time the guy's air very interested. So what? You sit them there and talking to said, Trust me, it's not like a whining and moaning section. It's more in terms of where we learned from each other >> years talking and sharing ideas, >> absolute >> innovation and building things. >> And we've got, you know, you look we look around that's a great set of women leaders throughout the company. At every single level at every function. It's ah, it's It's great to be there. We continue to sponsor Grace offer. We have some of the biggest presence at Grace Offer. We do so many other things like connected women within the company. It's just a I would say fabulous place to be. >> You guys do a lot of great things for society. Great company, great leadership. Thank you for doing all that's phenomenal. We love covering it, too. So we'll be affect cloud now today in Silicon Valley. Women in data science at Stanford and among them the >> greatest passion of our things. Straight here. >> Thanks for coming on this. The Cube live coverage here in Barcelona. Francisco Live twenty eighteen back with more. After the short break, I'm jump area with evil Aunt. Be right back

>> Live, from Las Vegas! It's theCube! Covering VMworld 2018. Brought to you by VMware and its ecosystem partners. >> Welcome back everyone, it's theCube's live coverage in Las Vegas for VMworld 2018, it's theCube. We got two sets, 24 interviews per day, 94 interviews total. Next three days, we're in day two of three days coverage. It's our ninth year of covering VMworld. It's been great. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, next guest, Cube alumni, number one in the leading boards right now, Sanjay Poonen did a great job today on stage, keynote COO for VMware. Great to have you back. Thanks for coming on. >> John and Dave, you're always so kind to me, but I didn't realize you've been doing this nine years. >> This is our ninth year. >> That's half the life of VMware, awesome. Unreal. Congratulations. >> We know all the stories, all the hidden, nevermind, let's talk about your special day today. You had a really, so far, an amazing day, you were headlining the key note with a very special guest, and you did a great job. I want you to tell the story, who was on, what was the story about, how did this come about? Tech for good, a big theme in this conference has really been getting a lot of praise and a lot of great feedback. Take us through what happened today. >> Well listen, I think what we've been trying to do at VMware is really elevate our story and our vision. Elevate our partnerships, you've covered a lot of the narrative of what we've done with Andy Jessie. We felt this year, we usually have two 90 minute sessions, Day One, Day Two, and it's filled with content. We're technical company, product. We figured why don't we take 45 minutes out of the 180 minutes total and inspire people. With somebody who's had an impact on the world. And when we brainstormed, we had a lot of names suggested, I think there was a list of 10 or 15 and Malala stood out, she never spoke at a tech conference before. I loved her story, and we're all about education. The roots of VMware were at Stamford Campus. Diane Greene, and all of that story. You think about 130 million girls who don't go to school. We want to see more diversity in inclusion, and she'd never spoken so I was like, you know what, usually you go to these tech conferences and you've heard somebody who's spoken before. I'm like, lets invite her and see if she would come for the first time, and we didn't think she would. And we were able to score that, and I was still a little skeptical 'cause you never know is it going to work out or not. So thank you for saying it worked, I think we got a lot of good feedback. >> Well, in your first line, she was so endearing. You asked her what you thought a tech conference, you said too many acronyms. She just cracked the place up immediately. >> And then you heard my response, right? If somebody tells me like that, you tell VMotion wrong she looked at me what? >> Tell them about our story, real quick, our story I want to ask you a point in question. Her story, why her, and what motivated you to get her? >> Those stories, for any of you viewers, you should read the book "I'm Malala" but I'll give you the short version of the story. She was a nine year old in the Pashtun Area of the Swat Valley in Pakistan, and the Taliban setted a edict that girls could not go to school. Your rightful place was whatever, stay at home and become a mom with babies or whatever have you. You cannot go to school. And her father ran a school, Moster Yousafzai, wonderful man himself, an educator, a grandfather, and says know what, we're going to send you to school. Violating this order, and they gave a warning after warning and finally someone shot her in 2012, almost killed her. The bullet kind of came to her head, went down, and miraculously she escaped. Got on a sort of a hospital on a plane, was flown to London, and the world if you remember 2012, the world was following the story. She comes out of this and she's unscathed. She looks normal, she has a little bit of a thing on the right side of her face but her brains normal, everything's normal. Two years later she wins the Nobel Peace Prize. Has started the Malala Fund, and she is a force of nature, an amazing person. Tim Cook has been doing a lot with her in the Malala Fund. I think that actually caught my attention when Tim Cook was working with her, and you know whatever Apple does often gets a little bit of attention. >> Well great job selecting her. How's that relevant to what you guys are doing now, because you guys had a main theme Tech for Good? Why now, why VMware? A lot of people are looking at this, inspired by it. >> There are milestones in companies histories. We're at our 20 year birthday, and I'm sure at people's birthday they want to do big things, right? 20, 30, 40, 50, these decades are big ones and we thought, lets make this year a year to remember in various things we do. We had a 20 year anniversary celebration on campus, we invited Diane Greene back. It was a beautiful moment internally at Vmware during one of our employee meetings. It was a private moment, but just with her to thank her. And man, there were people emotional almost in tears saying thank you for starting this company. A way to give back to us, same way here. What better way to talk about the impact we're having in the community than have someone who is of this reputation. >> Well we're behind your mission 100%, anything you need. We loved the message, Tech for Good, people want to work for a mission driven company. People want to buy >> We hope so. >> from mission driven companies, that stated clear and the leadership you guys are providing is phenomenal. >> We had some rankings that came out around the same time. Fortune ranked companies who are changing the world, and VMware was ranked 17th overall, of all companies in the world and number one in the software category. So when you're trying to change the world, hopefully as you pointed out it's also an attractor of talent. You want to come here, and maybe even attractor of customers and partners. >> You know the other take-away was from the key note was how many Cricket fans there are in the VMworld Community. Of course we have a lot of folks from India, in our world but who's your favorite Cricketer? Was it Sachin Tendulkar? (laughs) >> Clearly you're reading off your notes Dave! >> Our Sonya's like our, >> Dead giveaway! >> Our Sonya's like our Cricket Geek and she's like, ask him about Sachin, no who's your favorite Cricketer, she wants to know. >> Sachin Tendulkar's way up there, Shayuda Free, the person she likes from Pakistan. I grew up playing cricket, listen I love all sports now that I'm here in this country I love football, I love basketball, I like baseball. So I'll watch all of them, but you know you kind of have those childhood memories. >> Sure >> And the childhood memories were like she talk about, India, Pakistan games. I mean this was like, L.A. Dodgers playing Giants or Red Socks, Yankee's, or Dallas Cowboys and the 49ers, or in Germany playing England or Brazil in the World Cup. Whatever your favorite country or team rivalry is, India Pakistan was all there more, but imagine like a billion people watching it. >> Yeah, well it was a nice touch on stage, and I'd say Ted Williams is my favorite cricketer, oh he plays baseball, he's a Red Sock's Player. Alright Sanjay, just cause your in the hot seat, lets get down to business here. Great moment on stage, congratulation. Okay Pat Gelsinger yesterday on the key note talked about the bridges, VMware bridging, connecting computers. One of the highlights is kind of in your wheelhouse, it's in your wheelhouse, the BYOD, Bring Your Own Device bridge. You're a big part of that. Making that work on on the mobile side. Now with Cloud this new bridge, how is that go forward because you still got to have all those table stakes, so with this new bridge of VMware's in this modern era, cloud and multicloud. Cluely validated, Andy Jassy, on stage. Doing something that Amazon's never done before, doing something on premise with VMware, is a huge deal. I mean we think it's a massive deal, we think it's super important, you guys are super committed to the relationship on premises hybrid cloud, multicloud, is validated as far as we're concerned. It's a done deal. Now ball's in your court, how are you going to bring all that mobile together, security, work space one, what's your plan? >> I would say that, listen on as I described in my story today there's two parts to the VMware story. There's a cloud foundation part which is the move the data center to the cloud in that bridge, and then there's the desk job move it to the mobile. Very briefly, yes three years of my five years were in that business, I'm deeply passionate about it. Much of my team now that I put in place there, Noah and Shankar are doing incredible jobs. We're very excited, and the opportunity's huge. I said at my key note of the seven billion people that live in the world, a billion I estimate, work for some company small or big and all of them have a phone. Likely many of those billion have a phone and a laptop, like you guys have here, right? That real estate of a billion in a half, maybe two billion devices, laptops and phones, maybe in some cases laptop, phone, and tablets. Someone's going to manage and secure, and their diverse across Apple, Google, big option for us. We're just getting started, and we're already the leader. In the data center, the cloud world, Pat, myself, Raghu, really as we sat three years ago felt like we shouldn't be a public cloud ourselves. We divested vCloud Air, as I've talked to you on your show before, Andy Jassy is a friend, dear friend and a classmate of mine from Harvard Business School. We began those discussions the three of us. Pat, Raghu, and myself with Andy and his team and as every quarter and year has gone on they become deeper and deep partnerships. Andy has told other companies that VMware Amazon is the model partnership Amazon has, as they describe who they would like to do business more with. So we're proud when they do that, when we see that happen. And we want to continue that. So when Amazon came to us and said listen I think there's an opportunity to take some of our stack and put it on premise. We kept that confidential cause we didn't want it to leak out to the world, and we said we're going to try'n annouce it at either VMworld or re:Invent. And we were successful. A part with these projects is they inevitably leak. We're really glad no press person sniffed it out. There was a lot of speculation. >> Couldn't get confirmation. >> There was a lot of speculation but no one sniffed it out and wrote a story about it, we were able to have that iPhone moment today, I'm sorry, yesterday when we unveiled it. And it's a big deal because RDS is a fast growing business for them. RDS landing on premise, they could try to do on their own but what better infrastructure to land it on than VMware. In some cases would be VMware running on VxRail which benefits Dell, our hardware partners. And we'll continue doing more, and more, and more as customers desire, so I'm excited about it. >> Andy doesn't do deals, as you know Andy well as we do. He's customer driven. Tell me about the customer demand on this because it's something we're trying to get reporting on. Obviously it makes sense, technically the way it's working. You guys and Andy, they just don't do deals out of the blue. There's customer drivers here, what are those drivers? >> Yeah, we're both listening to our customers and perhaps three, four, five years ago they were very focused on student body left, everybody goes public cloud. Like forget your on premise, evaporate, obliterate your data centers and just go completely public. That was their message. >> True, sweep the floor. >> Right, if you went to first re:Invent I was there on stage with them as an SAP employee, that's what I heard. I think you fast forward to 2014, 2015 they're beginning to realize, hey listen it's not as easy. Refactoring your apps, migrating those apps, what if we could bring the best of private cloud and public cloud together enter VMware and Amazon. He may have felt it was harder to have those cultivations of VMware or for all kinds of reasons, like we had vCloud Air and so on and so forth but once we divested that decision culminations had matured between us that door opened. And as that door opened, more culminations began. Jointly between us and with customers. We feel that there are customers who want many of those past type of services of premise. Cause you're building great things, relational database technology, AI, VI maybe. IoT type of technologies if they are landing on premise in an edge-computing kind of world, why not land on VMware because we're the king of the private cloud. We're very happy to those, we progress those discussion. I think in infrastructure software VMware and Amazon have some of the best engineers on the planet. Sometimes we've engineers who've gone between both companies. So we were able to put our engineering team's together. This is a joint engineering effort. Andy and us often talk about the fact that great innovation's built when it's not just Barny go to Marketing and Marketing press releases this. The true joint engineering at a deep level. That's what happened the last several months. >> Well I can tell you right now the commitment I've seen from an executive level and deep technology, both sides are deep and committed to this. It's go big or go home, at least from our perspective. Question I want to ask you Sanjay is you're close to the customer's of VMware. What's the growth strategy? If you zoom out, look down on stage and you got vSAN, NSX at the core, >> vSANjay (laughs) >> How can you not like a product that has my name on it? >> So you got all these things, where's the growth going to come from, the merging side, is the v going to be the stable crown jewels at NSX? How do you guys see the growth, where's it going to come from? >> Just kind of look at our last quarter. I mean if you peel back the narrative, John and Dave, two years ago we were growing single digits. Like low single digits. Two, three percent. That was, maybe the legacy loser description of VMware was the narrative everyone was talking about >> License revenue was flattish right? >> And then now all of sudden we're double digits. 12, 15 sort of in that range for both product revenue. It's harder to grow faster when you're bigger, and what's happened is that we stabilize compute with vSphere in that part and it's actually been growing a little bit because I think people in the VMware cloud provider part of our business, and the halo effect of the cloud meant that as they refresh the servers they were buying more research. That's good. The management business has started to grow again. Some cases double digits, but at least sort of single digits. NSX, the last few order grew like 30, 40%. vSAN last year was growing 100% off a smaller base, this year going 60, 70%. EUC has been growing double digits, taking a lot of share from company's like Citrix and MobileIron and others. And now, also still growing double digits at much bigger paces, and some of those businesses are well over a billion. Compute, management, end-user computing. We talked about NSX on our queue forming called being a 1.4 billion. So when you get businesses to scale, about a billion dollar type businesses and their sort of four, training five that are in that area, and they all get to grow faster than the market. That's the key, you got to get them going fast. That's how you get growth. So we focus on those on those top five businesses and then add a few more. Like VMware Cloud on AWS, right now our goal is customer logo count. Revenue will come but we talked on our earnings call about a few hundred customers of VMware Cloud and AWS. As that gets into the thousands, and there's absolutely that option, why? Because there's 500,000 customers of VMware and two million customers of Amazon, so there's got to be a lot of commonality between those two to get a few thousand. Then we'll start caring about revenue there too, but once you have logos, you have references. Containers, I'd like to see PKS have a few hundred customers and then, we put one on stage today. National Commercial Bank of Jamaica. Fantastic story of PKS. I even got my PKS socks for this interview. (John laughs) >> So that give you a sense as to how we think, there will be four, five that our businesses had scale and then a few are starting to get there, and they become business to scale. The nature of software is we'll always be doing this show because there will be new businesses to talk about. >> Yeah, hardware is easy. Software is hard, as Andy Patchenstien said on theCUBE yesterday. Congratulations Sanjay and all the success, you guys are doing great financially. Products looking really good coming out, the bloom is rising from the fruit you guys have harvested, coming together. >> John if I can say one last thing, I shared a picture of a plane today and I put two engines behind it. There's something I've learned over the last years about focus of a company, and I joked about different ways that my name's are pronounced but at the core of me there's a DNA. I said on stage I'd rather not be known as smart or stupid but having a big heart. VMware, I hope is known by our customers as having these two engines. An engine of innovation, innovating product and a variety of other things. And focused on customer obsession. We do those, the plane will go a long way. >> And it's looking good you guys, we can say we've been to Radio Event, we've been doing a lot of great stuff. Congratulations on the initiative, and a great interview with you today on doing Tech for Good and sharing your story. Getting more exposure to the kind of narratives people want to hear. More women in tech, more girls in tech, more democratization. Congratulations and thanks so much for sharing. >> Thank you John and Dave. >> Appreciate you being here. >> Sanjay Poonen, COO of VMware. Friend of theCUBE, Cube Alumni, overall great guy. Big heart and competitive too, we know that from his Twitter stream. Follow Sanjay on Twitter. You'll have a great time. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante, stay with us for more coverage from day two live, here in Las Vegas for VMware 2018. Stay with us. (tech music)

>> Announcer: Live from Las Vegas, it's The Cube, covering AWS re:Invent 2017 presented by AWS, Intel, and our ecosystem of partners. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. Live here in Las Vegas, the Cube is covering exclusively the AWS re:Invent. We've got two sets. This is set one, set two behind me. We're here with a startup called Zettabytes, Rishi Yadav, Cube Alumni CEO, and Sudhir Janir, CTO. Hot new start-up, Zettabytes. Formerly, you're an entrepreneur, your other company's still going, Info Objects. Welcome back. >> Thanks for having us here. I dont know it's the seventh time, eighth time? I mean, we love Cube guys. Yes, so Info Objects is the mothership and doing really, really great, and today we are launching Zettabytes, which is our hybrid cloud, cloud integration platform. We are starting with AWS, and then it's going to have integration for the clouds. >> So start-ups are impacted, and we were talking yesterday about kind of a demarcation line between a point in time. I say 2012, maybe you can say 2014, if you were born before 2012 or 2014, you probably didn't factor the cloud as large scale as it is. But after that day, you're a new born start-up, you look at the cloud as a resource, an opportunity, so what's your perspective as an entrepreneur, a serial entrepreneur, you start a company, you look at the big beast in Amazon, opportunity, challenge, what's your view? >> So actually 2014 was an inflection point for two things. Number one is that the big data, big data, it started with the hyper scale companies, and at that time, you're talking about Facebook, and Yahoo and other places, but it was not enterprise-ready. And we suddenly saw the option. John, you have been following the big data directly from the, I think the cloud data basement days, right? So in 2014 it got a better option. And the things like security and governance, which were offered not much concern earlier, it became front and center. Another thing which happened was around 2014, 2015, timeframe, the public cloud, which were for eight, nine years, essentially AWS, that was about 70 start-ups about saving money for them. That also started getting an option, and the enterprise, and when you're talking about enterprise, there you cannot tell them that if you deploy 10 servers on AWS, it's going to save you $200,000. They would say you already have $500 million spent. We have these huge data centers, so they needed some more value than that. >> How about your company Zettabytes, so you're launching a new company, what is it, what does it do, why are you starting it? Take a minute to explain what you're doing. >> Yes, absolutely. So the Zettabytes idea came from this convergence of the big data, public cloud and IOT. And market is ripe for it, and the challenge was that we talked to a lot of customers, a lot of them have already started working in the cloud, and some of them were planning to start the journey in the cloud, and the challenge was that at the same time they also wanted to build a big data link, Andy talked about it a lot today, right, assuming the largest big data lake. So now the question was that do you really want to go the old school route in which you are using Hadoup and other services around it, and then you do lift and shift to AWS? And then you transform to PAS. So you spend one and a half, two years in doing Hadoup, and then you spend another one and a half, two years, doing the PAZ, that cloud-native transformation in a better way. And then realize that whether the clients are on AWS today, or they are going to be in one year, they need the same experience, the same cloud experience, the same AWS experience which they have on their AWS, they want on-prem. Now that includes the other cloud-native APIs, but also the agility and everything else. >> So let met ask Sudhir a question. So you're the CTO. I know you're technical too, so I have both of you. So the old days, I'm a developer, I have my local host, I'm banging away code, and then I go, okay I'm done. And I say, ship to the server for QA or whatever. And even the cloud. Businesses want that same kind of functionality on premise. They want to go to the cloud, so all the developers are changing, they want that local host like feel. They don't wanna have to write code, ship it to a server, put it through the cloud, they just want instant integration to Amazon. Is that what you're doing? >> Yeah. >> Did I get it right? 'Cause that seems what I think you're doing. >> Yes, you develop that seamless experience. So you have the same set of APIs, which you normally would do on AWS, so still use the same data, still use the same data blue CLI. Use all data blue APIs, we're accepted those APIs on this platform, build a good base, based on those APIs, now using Kubernetes, you decide where this workload will go. >> So one of the challenges of AWS though is that they release services like constantly. I think we had the announcer at the keynote today, it was like another hundred or so services that they were releasing. So how do you choose which ones? Do you support all of them, or do you focus on specific ones? >> No, first we are focusing on a few specific ones, which are mostly being used. We are starting with Lexi, for example, as three. Lamda, Kenesis, Kafka, and this bargain is DFS are there from day one also. And all of these are Lexi, we are doing Lexi, today official announcement, they have launched Kubernetes Now. Container management service. We have that flexibility from day one only. So we have that in our outlines, and using that, even for example, your workload says, some of the piece should run on that, on Lexi, on permalines. Some of the P should go to the cloud, that is also possible. >> So you're selling an appliance. >> Yeah, yeah. The one million Lexi, or Kubernetes million might run on the AWS, few of the menus might run on your uplines, you can easily Lexi's do the all the container management. >> This is model, they pay for the box, or is it a service? Or they get the box as part of a service? What's the business model? >> So we do both, so it's a (mumbles) format, as well as an appliance, so the beauty of appliances is that everything is already optimized for you, so that makes it very easy. But if a customer has a chosen hardware platform, and we can definitely deploy it on that also. And adding to the hunter services thing, I think that's a great point, that AWS has so many services now that can you really go and figure out which services are most optimized for your needs? So that's where you need a partner on prem-site, and that's what we are going to be, and another thing as Sudhir mentioned, the EKS which they announced today, Kubernetes, so you have Kubernetes on-prem, AWS is supporting Kubernetes, and we are also supporting Kubernetes, so if you want closer to that level, it's completely seamless. >> And you were saying before, your target is enterprise has been good, so the appliance delivery model and the simplicity of being able to manage a lot of different services. Clearly being able to manage things at scale is something that enterprisers are crying out for because otherwise I have to, AWS is great, if you wanna hand build everything yourself, it has all of those components that you can assemble like Lego, but if I'm an enterprise, I want to be able to do that at scale. Humans don't scale very well, so I need some technology to help with that. So it sounds like you are actually providing the leverage to get enterprise humans to be able to manage AWS. Is that a fair characterization? >> Absolutely, that is definitely a very important aspect of it, and another aspect of it is that if you do not want to have some workloads on AWS for one thing or another. IOT workloads by definition cannot be on AWS. Low intensive workloads. They cannot be on AWS. In the same way the workloads in which you need some actual level of security. So within your data center, as much as beat down the data center piece, you have your own security and governance. And you can do that, and that's coming back to your question that are we going to support all hundred services, yes, but the local execution we have only going to provide for some services, which by their very nature make more sense to learn on-prem. >> Yeah, keep the core services. >> Rishi: Core services. >> All right so how do you guys gonna sell this product, take us through the start-up situation, you're here, are you talking to customers? Why are they are buy you? What's the conversations like? When do they need you? Take us through your conversations here at re:Invent. >> Yeah, so before that, the AWS has been super successful for the green field applications. The new applications, the applications which are born in the cloud, but when it comes to transforming the existing application it becomes a big, big challenge. So a lot of customers are coming to us, they are interested in how I can seamlessly transform their-- >> John: What's an example workload? >> So the example workloads for us is going to be the big data workloads. Which we have specialized in for last so many years. So one of them can IOT. Sudhir, probably you can explain what that is. >> So that example could be for example from today's keynote, if you see Expedia case, or Lexi Goldman Sachs case, they spend a lot of time in converting their code to the AWS specific-word, right? Millions of lines, or billions of lines of code. What we are doing today, if you dealing with the application, tomorrow it could be future ready for AWS. It's more convenience, we are actually modeling your experience with AWS. >> So it's making for enterprisers to make that transition from what they're doing today across the cloud, because that's a big deal for them. >> Tomorrow when you are Lexi, then you go to AWS, your data will decide whether you want to earn your workload on our plans, or AWS. >> Okay, so your market is hybrid cloud, basically. People doing hybrid cloud should talk to you guys. >> Yeah, and code would be future proof. What you you are you developing today-- >> John: All right so is the product shipping? >> Yes, so we are in the early beta stage, we already have five beta customers. And the product is going to be ready in a week's time. >> So data now. >> Yeah, yes. >> Yeah, these guys are ready already. >> Open beta, restricted beta? >> It is going to be restricted beta for now. Then it's going to be open beta, so yes, we are going to five more customers in the next two months for the beta. >> Take a minute to explain the type of customer you're looking for. Are they all field spots, any more, you have five more spots, you said? >> Yeah, we have five more spots for the beta. >> John: Who are yo looking for out there? >> Any large enterprise which is planning to move to AWS, but are struggling with all the nitty gritties, looking at the hundred services, and how do you integrate your existing applications there. So how you could take baby steps, like so we are going to not just take that baby steps, but sprint through it, so that's what Zettabytes plans is for. >> Rishi, congratulations on the new start-up, launching here, Zettabytes, open beta, five more spots left. Check 'em out, Zettabytes, if you're doing hybrid cloud or true private cloud, they have five spots available. It's The Cube, bringing all the action, the start-up action here and also the conversations at re:Invent. I'm John Furrier, Justin Warren. We're back with more after this short break. (electronic jingle)

>> Man's Voiceover: Live, from San Jose, in the heart of Silicon Valley, it's theCUBE, covering DataWorks Summit 2017, brought to you by Hortonworks. (upbeat music) >> Welcome back to theCUBE, we are live at Day One of the DataWorks Summit, we've had a great day here, I'm surprised that we still have our voices left. I'm Lisa Martin, with my co-host George Gilbert. We have been talking with great innovators today across this great community, folks from Hortonworks, of course, IBM, partners, now I'd like to welcome back to theCube, who was here this morning in the green shoes, the CTO of Hortonworks, Scott Gnau, welcome back Scott! >> Great to be here yet again. >> Yet again! And we have another CTO, we've got CTO corner over here, with CUBE Alumni and the CTO of SyncSort, Tendu Yogurtcu Welcome back to theCUBE both of you >> Pleasure to be here, thank you. >> So, guys, what's new with the partnership? I know that syncsort, you have 87%, or 87 of the Fortune 100 companies are customers. Scott, 60 of the Fortune 100 companies are customers of Hortonworks. Talk to us about the partnership that you have with syncsort, what's new, what's going on there? >> You know there's always something new in our partnership. We launched our partnership, what a year and a half ago or so? >> Yes. And it was really built on the foundation of helping our customers get time to value very quickly, right and leveraging our mutual strengths. And we've been back on theCUBE a couple of times and we continue to have new things to talk about whether it be new customer successes or new feature functionalities or new integration of our technology. And so it's not just something that's static and sitting still, but it's a partnership that was had a great foundation in value and continues to grow. And, ya know, with some of the latest moves that I'm sure Tendu will bring us up to speed on that Syncsort has made, customers who have jumped on the bandwagon with us together are able to get much more benefit than originally they even intended. >> Let me talk about some of the things actually happening with Syncsort and with the partnership. Thank you Scott. And Trillium acquisition has been transformative for us really. We have achieved quite a lot within the last six months. Delivering joint solutions between our data integration, DMX-h, and Trillium data quality and profiling portfolio and that was kind of our first step very much focused on the data governance. We are going to have data quality for Data Lake product available later this year and this week actually we will be announcing our partnership with Collibra data governance platform basically making business rules and technical meta data available through the Collibra dashboards for data scientists. And in terms of our joint solution and joint offering for data warehouse optimization and the bundle that we launched early February of this year that's in production, a large complex production deployment's already happened. Our customers access all their data all enterprise data including legacy data, warehouse, new data sources as well as legacy main frame in the data lake so we will be announcing again in a week or so change in the capture capabilities from legacy data storage into Hadoop keeping that data fresh and giving more choices to our customers in terms of populating the data lake as well as use cases like archiving data into cloud. >> Tendu, let me try and unpack what was a very dense, in a good way, lot of content. Sticking my foot in my mouth every 30 seconds (laughter) >> Scott Voiceover: I think he called you dense. (laughter) >> So help us visualize a scenario where you have maybe DMX-h bringing data in you might have changed it at capture coming from a live data base >> Tendu Voiceover: Yes. and you've got the data quality at work as well. Help us picture how much faster and higher fidelity the data flow might be relative to >> Sure, absolutely. So, our bundle and our joint solution with Hortonworks really focuses on business use cases. And one of those use cases is enterprise data warehouse optimization where we make all data, all enterprise data accessible in the data lake. Now, if you are an insurance company managing claims or you are building a data as a service, Hadoop is a service architecture, there are multiple ways that you can keep that data fresh in the data lake. And you can have changed it at capture by basically taking snap-shots of the data and comparing in the data lake which is a viable method of doing it. But, as the data volumes are growing and the real time analytics requirements of the business are growing we recognize our customers are also looking for alternative ways that they can actually capture the change in real time when the change is just like less than 10% of the data, original data set and keep the data fresh in the data lake. So that enables faster analytics, real time analytics, as well as in the case that if you are doing something from on-premise to the cloud or archiving data, it also saves on the resources like the network bandwidth and overall resource efficiency. Now, while we are doing this, obviously we are accessing the data and the data goes through our processing engines. What Trillium brings to the table is the unmatched capabilities that are on profiling that data, getting better understanding of that data. So we will be focused on delivering products around that because as we understand data we can also help our customers to create the business rules, to cleanse that data, and preserve the fidelity of the data and integrity of the data. >> So, with the change data capture it sounds like near real time, you're capturing changes in near real time, could that serve as a streaming solution that then is also populating the history as well? >> Absolutely. We can go through streaming or message cues. We also offer more efficient proprietary ways of streaming the data to the Hadoop. >> So the, I assume the message cues refers to, probably Kafka and then your own optimized solution for sort of maximum performance, lowest latency. >> Yes, we can do either true Kafka cues which is very efficient as well. We can also go through proprietary methods. >> So, Scott, help us understand then now the governance capabilities that, um I'm having a senior moment (laughter) I'm getting too many of these! (laughter) Help us understand the governance capabilities that Syncsort's adding to the, sort of mix with the data warehouse optimization package and how it relates to what you're doing. >> Yeah, right. So what we talked about even again this morning, right the whole notion of the value of open squared, right open source and open ecosystem. And I think this is clearly an open ecosystem kind of play. So we've done a lot of work since we initially launched the partnership and through the different product releases where our engineering teams and the Syncsort teams have done some very good low-level integration of our mutual technologies so that the Syncsort tool can exploit those horizontal core services like Yarn for multi tendency and workload management and of course Atlas for data governance. So as then the Syncsort team adds feature functionality on the outside of that tool that simply accrete's to the benefit of what we've built together. And so that's why I say customers who started down this journey with us together are now going to get the benefit of additional options from that ecosystem that they can plug in additional feature functionality. And at the same time we're really thrilled because, and we've talked about this on many times right, the whole notion of governance and meta data management in the big data space is a big deal. And so the fact that we're able to come to the table with an open source solution to create common meta data tagging that then gets utilized by multiple different applications I think creates extreme value for the industry and frankly for our customers because now, regardless of the application they choose, or the applications that they choose, they can at least have that common trusted infrastructure where all of that information is tagged and it stays with the data through the data's life cycle. >> So you're partnership sounds very very symbiotic, that there's changes made on one side that reflect the other. Give us an example of where is your common customer, and this might not be, well, they're all over the place, who has got an enterprise data warehouse, are you finding more customers that are looking to modernize this? That have multi-cloud, core edge, IOT devices that's a pretty distributed environment versus customers that might be still more on prem? What's kind of the mix there? >> Can I start and then I will let you build on. I want to add something to what Scott said earlier. Atlas is a very important integration point for us and in terms of the partnership that you mentioned the relation, I think one of the strengths of our partnership is at many different levels it's not just executive level, it's cross functional and also from very close field teams, marketing teams and engineering field teams working together And in terms of our customers, it's really organizations are trying to move toward modern data architecture. And as they are trying to build the modern data architecture there are the data in motion piece I will let Scott talk about, data in rest piece and as we have so much data coming from cloud, originating through mobile and web in the enterprise, especially the Fortune 500, that we talk, Fortune 100 we talked about, insurance, health care, Talco financial services and banking has a lot of legacy data stores. So our, really joint solution and the couple of first use cases, business use cases we targeted were around that. How do we enable these data stores and data in the modern data architecture? I will let Scott >> Yeah, I agree And so certainly we have a lot of customers already who are joint customers and so they can get the value of the partnership kind of cuz they've already made the right decision, right. I also think, though, there's a lot of green field opportunity for us because there are hundreds if not thousands of customers out there who have legacy data systems where their data is kind of locked away. And by the way, it's not to say the systems aren't functioning and doing a good job, they are. They're running business facing applications and all of that's really great, but that is a source of raw material that belongs also in the data lake, right, and can be, can certainly enhance the value of all the other data that's being built there. And so the value, frankly, of our partnership is really creating that easy bridge to kind of unlock that data from those legacy systems and get it in the data lake and then from there, the sky's the limit, right. Is it reference data that can then be used for consistency of response when you're joining it to social data and web data? Frankly, is it an online archive, and optimization of the overall data fabric and off loading some of the historical data that may not even be used in legacy systems and having a place to put it where it actually can be accessed. And so, there are a lot of great use cases. You're right, it's a very symbiotic relationship. I think there's only upside because we really do complement each other and there is a distinct value proposition not just for our existing customers but frankly for a large set of customers out there that have, kind of, the data locked away. >> So, how would you see do you see the data warehouse optimization sort of solution set continuing to expand its functional footprint? What are some things to keep pushing out the edge conditions, the realm of possibilities? >> Some of the areas that we are jointly focused on is we are liberating that data from the enterprise data warehouse or legacy architectures. Through the syncs or DMX-h we actually understand the path that data travel from, the meta data is something that we can now integrate into Atlas and publish into Atlas and have Atlas as the open data governance solution. So that's an area that definitely we see an opportunity to grow and also strengthen that joint solution. >> Sure, I mean extended provenance is kind of what you're describing and that's a big deal when you think about some of these legacy systems where frankly 90% of the costs of implementing them originally was actually building out those business rules and that meta data. And so being able to preserve that and bring it over into a common or an open platform is a really big deal. I'd say inside of the platform of course as we continue to create new performance advantages in, ya know, the latest releases of Hive as an example where we can get low latency query response times there's a whole new class of work loads that now is appropriate to move into this platform and you'll see us continue to move along those lines as we advance the technology from the open community. >> Well, congratulations on continuing this great, symbiotic as we said, partnership. It sounds like it's incredible strong on the technology side, on the strategic side, on the GTM side. I'd loved how you said liberating data so that companies can really unlock its transformational value. We want to thank both of you for Scott coming back on theCUBE >> Thank you. twice in one day. >> Twice in one day. Tendu, thank you as well >> Thank you. for coming back to theCUBE. >> Always a pleasure. For both of our CTO's that have joined us from Hortonworks and Syncsort and my co-host George Gilbert, I am Lisa Martin, you've been watching theCUBE live from day one of the DataWorks summit. Stick around, we've got great guests coming up (upbeat music)

>> Announcer: You are CUBE Alumni. Live from Munich, Germany, it's theCUBE. Covering, DataWorks Summit Europe 2017. Brought to you by Hortonworks. >> Hello, everyone, welcome back to live coverage at DataWorks 2017, I'm John Furrier with my cohost, Dave Vellante. Two days of coverage here in Munich, Germany, covering Hortonworks and Yahoo, presenting Hadoop Summit, now called DataWorks 2017. Our next guest is Carlo Vaiti, who's the HPE chief technology strategist, EMEA Digital Solutions, Europe, Middle East, and Africa. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you, John. >> So we were just chatting before we came on, of your historic background at IBM, Oracle, and now HPE, and now back into the saddle there. >> Don't forget Sun Microsystems. >> Sun Microsystems, sorry, Sun, yeah. I mean, great, great run. >> It was a long run. >> You've seen the computer revolution happen. I worked at HP for nine years, from '88 to '97. Again, Dave was a premier analyst during that run of client-server. We've seen the computer revolution happen. Now we're seeing the digital revolution where the iPhone is now 10 years old, Cloud is booming, data's at the center of the value proposition, so a completely new disruptive capability. >> Carlo: Sure, yes. >> So what are you doing as the CTO, chief technologist for HPE, how are you guys bringing this story together? 'Cause there's so much going on at HPE. You got the services spit, you got the software split, and HP's focusing on the new style of IT, as Meg Whitman calls it. >> So, yeah. My role in EMEA is actually all about having basically a visionary kind of strategy role for what's going to be HP in the future, in terms of IT. And one of the things that we are looking at is, is specifically to have, we split our strategy in three different aspects, so three transformation areas. The first one which we usually talk is what I call hybrid IT, right, which is basically making services around either On-Premise or on Cloud for our customer base. The second one is actually power the Intelligent Edge, so is actually looking after our collaboration and when we acquire Aruba components. And the third one, which is in the middle, and that's why I'm here at the DataWorks Summit, is actually the data-analytics aspects. And we have a couple of solution in there. One is the Enterprise great Hadoop, which is part of this. This is actually how we generalize all the figure and the strategy for HP. >> It's interesting, Dave and I were talking yesterday, being in Europe, it's obviously a different sideshow, it's smaller than the DataWorks or Hadoop Summit in North America in San Jose, but there's a ton of Internet of things, IoT or IIoT, 'cause here in Germany, obviously, a lot of industrial nations, but in Europe in general, a lot of smart cities initiatives, a lot of mobility, a ton of Internet of things opportunity, more than in the US. >> Absolutely. >> Can you comment on how you guys are tackling the IoT? Because it's an Intelligent Edge, certainly, but it's also data, it's in your wheelhouse. >> Yes, sure. So I'm actually working, it's a good question, because I'm actually working a couple of projects in Eastern Europe, where it's all about Industrial IoT Analytics, IIoTA. That's the new terminology we use. So what we do is actually, we analyze from a business perspective, what are the business pain points, in an oil and gas company for example. And we understand for example, what kind of things that they need and must have. And what I'm saying here is, one of the aspects for example, is the drilling opportunity. So how much oil you can extract from a specific rig in the middle of the North Sea, for example. This is one of the key question, because the customer want to understand, in the future, how much oil they can extract. The other one is for example, the upstream business. So doing on the retail side and having, say, when my customer is stopping in a gas station, I want go in the shop, immediately giving, I dunno, my daughter, a kind of campaign for the Barbie, because they like the Barbie. So IoT, Industrial IoT help us in actually making a much better customer experience, and that's the case of the upstream business, but is also helping us in actually much faster business outcomes. And that's what the customer wants, right? 'Cause, and was talking with your colleague before, I'm talking to the business guy. I'm not talking to the IT anymore in these kind of place, and that's how IoT allow us a chance to change the conversation at the industry level. >> These are first-time conversations too. You're getting at the kinds of business conversations that weren't possible five years ago. >> Carlo: Yes, sure. >> I mean and 10 years ago, they would have seemed fantasy. Now they're reality. >> The role of analytics in my opinion, is becoming extremely key, and I said this morning, for me my best center is that the detail, is the stone foundation of the digital economy. I continue to repeat this terminology, because it's actually where everything is starting from. So what I mean is, let's take a look at the analytic aspect. So if I'm able to analyze the data close to the shop floor, okay, close to the shop manufacturing floor, if I'm able to analyze my data on the rig, in the oil and gas industry, if I'm able to analyze doing preprocessing analytics, with Kafka, Druid, these kind of open-source software, where close to the Intelligent Edge, then my customers going to be happy, because I give them very fast response, and the decision-maker can get to decision in a faster time. Today, it takes a long time to take these type of decision. So that's why we want to move into the power Intelligent Edge. >> So you're saying, data's foundational, but if you get to the Intelligent Edge, it's dynamic. So you have a dynamic reactive, realtime time series, or presences of data, but you need the foundational pre-data. >> Perfect. >> Is that kind of what you're getting at? >> Yes, that's the first step. Preprocessing analytics is what we do. In the next generation of, we think is going to be Industrial IoT Analytics, we're going to actually put massive amount of compute close to the shop manufacturing floor. We call internally or actually externally, convergent planned infrastructure. And that's the key point, right? >> John: Convergent plan? >> Convergent planned infrastructure, CPI. If you look at in Google, you will find. It's a solution we bring in the market a few months ago. We announce it in December last year. >> Yeah, Antonio's smart. He also had a converged systems as well. One of the first ones. >> Yeah, so that's converge compute at the edge basically. >> Correct, converge compute-- >> Very powerful. >> Very powerful, and we run analytics on the edge. That's the key point. >> Which we love, because that means you don't have to send everything back to the Cloud because it's too expensive, it's going to take too long, it's not going to work. >> Carlo: The bandwidth on the network is much less. >> There's no way that's going to be successful, unless you go to the edge and-- >> It takes time. >> With a cost. >> Now the other thing is, of course, you've got the Aruba asset, to be able to, I always say, joke, connect the windmill. But, Carlo, can we go back to the IoTA example? >> Carlo: Correct, yeah. >> I want to help, help our audience understand, sort of, the new HP, post these spin merges. So perviously you would say, okay, we have Vertica. You still have partnership, or you still own Vertica, but after September 1st-- >> Absolutely, absolutely. It's part of the columnar side-- >> Right, yes, absolutely, but, so. But the new strategy is to be more of a platform for a variety of technology. So how for instance would you solve, or did you solve, that problem that you described? What did you actually deliver? >> So again, as I said, we're, especially in the Industrial IoT, we are an ecosystem, okay? So we're one element of the ecosystem solution. For the oil and gas specifically, we're working with other system integrator. We're working with oil and the industry gas expertise, like DXC company, right, the company that we just split a few days ago, and we're working with them. They're providing the industry expertise. We are a infrastructure provided around that, and the services around that for the infrastructure element. But for the industry expertise, we try to have a kind of little bit of knowledge, to start the conversation with the customer. But again, my role in the strategy is actually to be a ecosystem digital integrator. That's the new terminology we like to bring in the market, because we really believe that's the way HP role is going to be. And the relevance of HP is totally depending if we are going to be successful in these type of things. >> Okay, now a couple other things you talked about in your keynote. I'm just going to list them, and then we can go wherever we want. There was Data Link 3.0, Storage Disaggregation, which is kind of interesting, 'cause it's been a problem. Hadoop as a service, Realtime Everywhere, and then Analytics at the Edge, which we kind of just talked about. Let's pick one. Let's start with Data Link 3.0. What is that? John doesn't like the term data link. He likes data ocean. >> I like data ocean. >> Is Data Link 3.0 becoming an ocean? >> It's becoming an ocean. So, Data Link 3.0 for us is actually following what is going to be the future for HDFS 3.0. So we have three elements. The erasure coding feature, which is coming on HDFS. The second element is around having HDFS data tier, multi-data tier. So we're going to have faster SSD drives. We're going to have big memory nodes. We're going to have GPU nodes. And the reason why I say disaggregation is because some of the workload will be only compute, and some of the workload will be only storage, okay? So we're going to bring, and the customer require this, because it's getting more data, and they need to have for example, YARN application running on compute nodes, and the same level, they want to have storage compute block, sorry, storage components, running on the storage model, like HBase for example, like HDFS 3.0 with the multi-tier option. So that's why the data disaggregation, or disaggregation between compute and storage, is the key point. We call this asymmetric, right? Hadoop is becoming asymmetric. That's what it mean. >> And the problem you're solving there, is when I add a node to a cluster, I don't have to add compute and storage together, I can disaggregate and choose whatever I need, >> Everyone that we did. >> based on the workload. >> They are all multitenancy kind of workload, and they are independent and they scale out. Of course, it's much more complex, but we have actually proved that this is the way to go, because that's what the customer is demanding. >> So, 3.0 is actually functional. It's erasure coding, you said. There's a data tier. You've got different memory levels. >> And I forgot to mention, the containerization of the application. Having dockerized the application for example. Using mesosphere for example, right? So having the containerization of the application is what all of that means, because what we do in Hadoop, we actually build the different clusters, they need to talk to each other, and change data in a faster way. And a solution like, a product like SQL Manager, from Hortonworks, is actually helping us to get this connection between the cluster faster and faster. And that's what the customer wants. >> And then Hadoop as a service, is that an on-premise solution, is that a hybrid solution, is it a Cloud solution, all three? >> I can offer all of them. Hadoop is a service could be run on-premise, could be run on a public Cloud, could be run on Azure, or could be mix of them, partially on-premise, and partially on public. >> And what are you seeing with regard to customer adoption of Cloud, and specifically around Hadoop and big data? >> I think the way I see that option is all the customer want to start very small. The maturity is actually better from a technology standpoint. If you're asking me the same question maybe a year ago, I would say, it's difficult. Now I think they've got the point. Every large customer, they want to build this big data ocean, note the delay, ocean, whatever you want to call it. >> John: Love that. (laughs) >> All right. They want to build this data ocean, and the point I want to make is, they want to start small, but they want to think very high. Very big, right, from their perspective. And the way they approach us is, we have a kind of methodology. We establish the maturity assessment. We do a kind of capability maturity assessment, where we find that if the customer is actually a pioneer, or is actually a very traditional one, so it's very slow-going. Once we determine where is the stage of the customer is, we propose some specific proof of concept. And in three months usually, we're putting this in place. >> You also talked about realtime everywhere. We in our research, we talk about the, historically, you had batchy of interactive, and now you have what we call continuous, or realtime streaming workloads. How prevalent is that? Where do you see it going in the future? >> So I think is another train for the future, as I mentioned this morning in my presentation. So and Spark is actually doing the open-source memory engine process, is actually the core of this stuff. We see 60 to 70 time faster analytics, compared to not to use Spark. So many customer implemented Spark because of this. The requirement are that the customer needs an immediate response time, okay, for a specific decision-making that they have to do, in order to improve their business, in order to improve their life. But this require a different architecture. >> I have a question, 'cause you, you've lived in the United States, you're obviously global, and spent a lot of time in Europe as well, and a lot of times, people want to discuss the differences between, let's make it specific here, the European continent and North America, and from a sophistication standpoint, same, we can agree on that, but there are still differences. Maybe, more greater privacy concerns. The whole thing with the Cloud and the NSA in the United States, created some concerns. What do you see as the differences today between North America and Europe? >> From my perspective, I think we are much more for example take IoT, Industrial IoT. I think in Europe we are much more advanced. I think in the manufacturing and the automotive space, the connected car kind of things, autonomous driving, this is something that we know already how to manage, how to do it. I mean, Tesla in the US is a good example that what I'm saying is not true, but if I look at for example, large German manufacturing car, they always implemented these type of things already today. >> Dave: For years, yeah. >> That's the difference, right? I think the second step is about the faster analytic approach. So what I mentioned before. The Power the Intelligent Edge, in my opinion at the moment, is much more advanced in the US compared to Europe. But I think Europe is starting to run back, and going on the same route. Because we believe that putting compute capacity on the edge is what actually the customer wants. But that's the two big differences I see. >> The other two big external factors that we like to look at, are Brexit and Trump. So (laughs) how 'about Brexit? Now that it's starting to sort of actually become, begin the process, how should we think about it? Is it overblown? It is critical? What's your take? >> Well, I think it's too early to say. UK just split a few days ago, right, officially. It's going to take another 18 months before it's going to be completed. From a commercial standpoint, we don't see any difference so far. We're actually working the same way. For me it's too early to say if there's going to be any implication on that. >> And we don't know about Trump. We don't have to talk about it, but the, but I saw some data recently that's, European sentiment, business sentiment is trending stronger than the US, which is different than it's been for the last many years. What do you see in terms of just sentiment, business conditions in Europe? Do you see a pick up? >> It's getting better, it is getting better. I mean, if I look at the major countries, the P&L is going positive, 1.5%. So I think from that perspective, we are getting better. Of course we are still suffering from the Chinese, and Japanese market sometimes. Especially in some of the big large deals. The inclusion of the Japanese market, I feel it, and the Chinese market, I feel that. But I think the economy is going to be okay, so it's going to be good. >> Carlo, I want to thank you for coming on and sharing your insight, final question for you. You're new to HPE, okay. We have a lot of history, obviously I was, spent a long part of my career there, early in my career. Dave and I have covered the transformation of HP for many, many years, with theCUBE certainly. What attracted you to HP and what would you say is going on at HP from your standpoint, that people should know about? >> So I think the number one thing is that for us the word is going to be hybrid. It means that some of the services that you can implement, either on-premise or on Cloud, could be done very well by the new Pointnext organization. I'm not part of Pointnext. I'm in the EG, Enterprise Group division. But I am fan for Pointnext because I believe this is the future of our company, is on the services side, that's where it's going. >> I would just point out, Dave and I, our commentary on the spin merge has been, create these highly cohesive entities, very focused. Antonio now running EG, big fans, of where it's actually an efficient business model. >> Carlo: Absolutely. >> And Chris Hsu is running the Micro Focus, CUBE Alumni. >> Carlo: It's a very efficient model, yes. >> Well, congratulations and thanks for coming on and sharing your insights here in Europe. And certainly it is an IoT world, IIoT. I love the analytics story, foundational services. It's going to be great, open source powering it, and this is theCUBE, opening up our content, and sharing that with you. I'm John Furrier, Dave Vellante. Stay with us for more great coverage, here from Munich after the short break.

(upbeat music) >> Tech people love tech. Consumers love to benefit of tech. No consumer opens up their iphone and says, "Oh my gosh, I love the technology behind my iphone". >> What's it been like being on the Shark Tank? >> You know filming is fun. And hanging out is fun, and it's fun to be a celebratory at first. Your head gets really big and you can get tables at restaurants. >> Who says tech isn't got a little pizazz? (laughing) >> Announcer: More skin in the game. In charge of his destiny. >> I mean you guys are exciting? >> Announcer: Robert Herjavec, is Cube Alumni. (upbeat music) Live from Silicon Valley, it's the Cube, covering Google Cloud Next' 17. >> Welcome back to the Cube, we're doing two days of live coverage here of the Google Cloud Next' 2017 here in the center of Silicon Valley from our 4500 sq foot Palo Alto studio. Happy to bring back to the program a multi time guest, but first time in his new role Praveen Akkiraju now the CEO of Viptela. Thank you for joining us. >> Thanks Stu real pleasure to be here. >> Praveen we were joking, it's like you first came on the Cube back in 2012, you've been on the program at many of our shows, but now you're at our place here, we've got the nice studio, so happy. >> Yes it's really impressive. It's a, you guys have come a long way and it's been an awesome show when I was at VC and I'm really excited to be back here with you. >> Awesome, thank you so much. Why don't you give our audience why Vipetla? What was exiting o you about the opportunity? We've has the opportunity of interviewing some of your folks over the last couple of years at shows like the Emerald and alike? >> Absolutely, I think it's interesting, when you think about sort of what's happening in the IT industry as a whole. There's a revolution going on in the cloud. You know the show that you guys are covering as well as what's been happening over the past couple of years. Applications are basically migrating out of the data center, whether it's into the public cloud into into PaaS platforms, SaaS platforms and such like, similarly at the edge right, users have been migrating away from their desktops right, mobility has unleashed the user to be wherever they need to be and be able to still be productive. In addition to that, you have a whole bunch of things happening in the edge in terms of devices and things coming onboard. Now if you think about these two worlds and the revolution that's happening there, the actual connectivity between those two has been frozen in time right. Majority of the enterprises today are still connected using MPLE, VPN technology which is invented 20 years ago to solve the problem of ATM like emulation or IP. So I think what was really interesting to me about Viptela is it's truly about redefining the network connectivity between users and applications for the could era. And that's really what our mission is and that's what we're really excited about. >> Yeah Praveen it reminds me a lot of you know, what we saw in the data centers when it came to networking. There was that big shift for a number of years in saying, "Well it was the client to server "and then that machine to machine". Everything that happened with virtualization. We went from north south traffic to east west traffic. We talked about forever. Now as cloud pulls in those connectivity. Reinventing what's happening in WAN. >> And absolutely and think about it, if you're a user, you might be accessing your applications in the data center, But you might need to access a something on a SaaS platform well if you're sitting at a branch office do you want to go back to the data center and then head out to the Cloud? Or do you want to be able to take the best path out? Most branches today, have internet connections that our faster than anything MPLS can provide. In fact, there's a data point, one of our customers gave us. The per megabit cost for MPLS VPN is about $200. The per megabit cost for internet is about $2. And you think about the speed as symmetry and obviously the SLA's are different right. So you want to be able to make sure that you can leverage the best connectivity, but also make sure the applications are mapped to the appropriate SLA's transport. So, what we do is essentially, we think about ourselves as the next generation overlay. So we can, the Viptela fabric essentially encompasses MPLS, VPN, internet, LTE connectivity, and we're able to understand what happens in the underlay. But enterprises can just focus on how they want their users to connect to their applications without having to understand what's happening underneath. So that's truly the power of the software refined world if you will right. >> Yeah so, we've been talking for a few years. That whole SDN wave that came out, Google talks about themselves as the largest SDN company out there. But most of the discussion seems to have moved beyond SDN. You're area of SD WAN is definitely one of the hot conversations. Where are customers in kind of understanding this transition and where do things fit? >> Yeah it's a great point, I mean the first wave of software defined networking was essentially was about solving the data center connectivity problem. So how you connect machines more dynamically. How you connect do you connect capacity more dynamically. So application can migrate, you know this notion of sort of machine to machine communication in a dynamic fashion. And being able to potentially even stripe it out to the could. But the first wave did not address hard users connect to their applications. So we think of ourselves from an SDN perspective, kind of leading that second wave of software defined networking, which truly is about user experience an application experience. Connecting users wherever they are to applications wherever they are right. In a scalable secure and dynamic fashion. >> Very different discussion from what I think of. The guys from Nicira that turned into the NXS, that seemed very tied into how VMware talks about hybrid environment. When you talk about, when VMware on AWS goes in. I need that NXS in there. You know you worked at Cisco for a number of years, what they're doing with ACI now is talking more about that as opposed to the client the application layer. >> Exactly right. And I think that at the end of the day. We optimized how applications can migrate and move. And how they can get the best capacity. But the whole purpose is to really deliver those applications to the users. And the WAN has been kind of this, it's frozen in time for 20 years, primarily because it's hard right. It's really hard to be able to figure out what the underlay actually looks like. I mean some of these, some of our customers are global. I mean we have sights in Vietnam. In India, in the US obviously, But it's a global or it's a global footprint and being able to overlay something on top that still give you the predictable performance and be is secure, is something that's been a hard problem to solve. And that's what's really exiting about what we're doing at Viptela. >> It's really interesting stuff. Talk about how you guys partner with, interact with the public cloud environments? >> Yeah you know so we, we're obviously most of our controller are hosted in AWS as well as Verzion which is another, which is a key partner. These are the two big two big sort of partners for us in our in terms of our controllers. But we think about, we partner with AWS, we partner with Microsoft from a Open from an Office 365 perspective. And there a lot of our customer who want to have a much more predictable, high, low leniency access to Office 365. A lot of our customer have workloads in AWS. So we're able to actually spin up a version of our device to front end VPC's and AWS so you can then terminate. Essentially, we treat the cloud as a node in the fabric right. So it helps all the policies, it helps all the securities. Security aspects of it day one. So it's really super simple to set up. We don't treat the cloud separatetly, we just say,"well here's another branch "or a head end". Let's just, can I connect it in. And let the customer define the policies that they see fit. >> That's great so AWS and Office 365 leaders in their categories, got the Google Show going on this week. What do you hear from your customers when it comes to G Suite and Google Cloud? >> Yeah I mean there's a lot of customers who use the G Suite. Mainly Googe Docs particularity. In the context of sort of some of the small medium business that we work with. So again, our job is to really bring users to the applications with the lowest leniency of having the best experience possible. So lot of the could providers essentially don't necessarily worry about how customers get there. They just assume the customer shows up the the door but is a SasS platform or infrastructure is a service platform. So our partnerships with a lot of these providers are about insuring that you know we can collectively guarantee that their users get the best path forward. And that creates more stickiness for them. In terms of their service. >> Okay Praveen, let's talk about Viptela for a second, What's on your plate this year? Those industry watchers? What should we be expecting to see from you coming forward? >> Yeah what's interesting about Viptela is I mean we talk about obviously software define WAN as a category. And clearly as I mentioned, there's a huge leitant requirement to evolve the WAN connectiveness. And I would think that what Viptela does is sort of the next generation overlay. And we talked about sort of the different forms of connectivity which we give the control back to the enterprise. To say, "All you need to worry about Mr. Customer is "to say how can I define the segment or policy per user, "per application". So that's been sort of the focus of our initial use case for our fabric. And we've been tremendously successful, you know most of what we focus primarily on the global fortune 1000 type customers. So we have pretty much every verticals represented in our customer base. Large financials, industrial companies, car companies, retailers, health care and such like. But we think about this fabric as essentially solving the problem of connectivity so you now the next phase of our solution is really about how do we make cloud connectivity really simple and secure? So we're going to launch something in that space, where we make connectivity to infrastructure, service, SaaS platforms really seamless as part of our platform. So if you're a user in a branch or at the edge, you should be able to connect to your data center at the same level of experience and security as you would go to your cloud. So we want to make that super seamless. So that's I think, we call that Cloud En ramps. That's something that we're going to be announcing pretty soon. When I think about the longer term plan, evolution of this because of the platform is fundamentally grounded in routing, in understanding how scale happens, we have taken the traditional routing stake and disaggregated it. There's a data plane that's onsite, there's a control plane which is essentially your routing, and a management organization plane that sits in the cloud. So this allows us to solve many problems. So you can extrapolate forward and say well there's a whole problem internet of things. What is the internet of things problem? It is a whole bunch of devices at the edge which need to be connected to end points whether it's a data center or a you know a collection point. Dynamically, dependent on the phase of their. So those are the kind of problems we think we can solve. So Viptela is interesting because it's not just about SDN it's really about the next generation overlay between the users and the cloud and being able to address multiple use cases. >> Okay, and there are a number of companies. Plenty of startups, some of the big guys there. In the market, what really differentiates you guys? What are your customers coming to you for that the other guys can't do? >> Yeah I think it's, I would say really, so we're all routing geeks. I pretty much spent 19 years at Cisco. Built every platform that Cisco ships today. And so are most of member of the teams. We have I think one of the strongest collection of networking talent in the industry. And what we're able to do with that is as I mentioned re-imagine what the network connectivity needs to look like. In the era of cloud, in the era of internet of things. Our architecture is fundamentally modular as I mentioned right. There's a data plane, there's a control plane, management organization plane. We are cloud managed and cloud delivered. So we solve for scale very elegantly. Because we inherently use the properties of routing that has allowed the internet to scale to what it is as part of the core of our solution. That's one thing that's unique. The second aspect of this is, for us security is a day zero thing. You know, when we bring up a box, zero touch provisioning, it comes up with an Ipsec tunnel encrypted. And we do it without having to exchange keys. So it's inherently secure right. So that is a very significant issue because if you're using the internet as your pipe for your mission critical traffic how do you assure yourself that you're not going to be hacked? And your traffic is not going to be intercepted. So that's you know, some of the largest financial institutions have been on our architecture. Because they trust that. So that's a second piece. The third piece is from an application and a policy perspective we have the ability with our controllers to push policies and create segmentations for different use cases on a dynamic basis. So I'll give you an example so if you have a user in a branch, and you have basically another user comes in they have a different set of requirements. You can dynamically switch up a tunnel from your cloud controller to enable that to happen without every having to touch or configure any of the end boxes. So our cloud platform gives us tremendous amount of scale and flexibility. So that's the way I think about it. Scalability, security, an application policy and the different use cases that we're able to bring to bear. >> So final question I have of you Praveen, the networking world is changing faster than it used to. But I think back to... >> Praveen: Finally. >> for many years I would do slides on networking, and we'd talk about decade scale. So it's like you know, here's how the standard comes, here's how it roles out, here's how it adoption. The enterprise is risk adverse. Slow to change. Not doing anything. Why are things so exciting now in the networking space? What's different? What's driving that move and our customers moving faster? >> Yeah it's a great question and you know I think to put it differently I think networking enjoyed architectural consistency and stability for almost two decades. Which is not the case when you think about the data center or some of the other environment where there's constant change. Now having said that, when we think about what's driving this change it's really that these two revolutions that are going on, one in the edge where users are evolving really rapidly whether it's connectivity or sort of devices and such like and one of the data center of the cloud where applications are fundamentally changing their ephemeral. They're able to migrate between locations. So that's putting a lot of pressure back onto the network. To say, "Hey we need the network to be a lot more dynamic". We need the network to be a lot more flexible. A lot more cost effective. And that is the fundamental driver which we see as driving the customers' willingness to say, "I need to re-look at the network". And the other aspect of this is, as I said we re-imagined networking ground up. Clean sheet of paper. Learned the lessons from the past. And say, "How do you make this painless for the customer"? The reason why the network particularly the WAN has been stagnant is because it is painful right. It involved multiple connectivities, multiple carriers, multiple policies, it's not something that most enterprises want to deal with. By abstracting all that complexity away. We allow customers to focus on what they care about. Is how do I connect? Enable user connectivity with applications. And we take care of the underlay right. So I think those are the key things. I mean it's essentially the last leg of the stool if you will. In terms of moving truly to the cloud era. >> Alright well Praveen Akkiraju thank you so much for joining us again. You're watching the worldwide leader in live enterprise tech coverage the Cube. (upbeat music)

>> Voiceover: Live, from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE. Covering SapphireNow. Headlines sponsored by SAP Hana Cloud, the leader in platform as a service, with support from Console, Inc., the Cloud internet company. Now, here are your hosts, John Furrier, and Peter Burris. >> Okay, welcome back everyone. We are here live in Orlando, Florida, for SAP Sapphire coverage from SiliconANGLE Media, theCUBE, our flagship program. We go out to the events, and extract the signal for the noise. Want to give a shout out to our sponsors, who allow us to get here, SAP Hana Cloud platform, Console, Inc., EMC, Cap Gemini, thanks for supporting us. We appreciate it. Our next guest is Mitch Kick, Global Vice President, Head of Strategy and Programs for SAP Global Ecosystem. We love strategy guys because, they get the chess board. And they look like they're always playing chess, 3-D chess. Been looking at the landscape, looking at the horse on the track. Welcome to The Cube. >> Thank you very much. Good to be here. >> It's an evolving ecosystem. It's fluid, but yet, active. The Apple announcement, certainly notable news for SAP. Certainly, the Cloud, mobile, social data trend, the confluence of those things, causing massive innovation surge. So you, got a lot going on. >> Absolutely. >> What is the current ecosystem? >> Well, you know, when you think about the way SAP looks at it's ecosystem, I mean certainly we have those traditional types of partners, who resell our product. But, when we talk about our global ecosystem, we're really talking about those partners who are either strategic service partners, technology partners, some emerging partners and names that you mentioned, like Apple, Uber, Facebook, some of these, they're not your grandfathers, SAP partners. And so, we're really moving to partner in new ways. To co-innovate new types of solutions, that take advantage of the trends in the digital landscape. >> John: Like what are you doing with Facebook? >> Well, Facebook is an example, it's something where we said, "Look, there's all this social data," "that's out there. How do we put that together with" "our Hybris, CEC, types of solutions," "our commerce solutions?". To basically allow marketers to do one-to-one marketing, that leverages the power of Facebook data, and your enterprise data, brings it together in a very manageable tool. >> That must've been a very hard deal, because they're very controlled about their data. And also, each person has their profile settings. So, that's awesome. >> Yeah, and it's something that allows for marketers to just do much more targeting, much more insightful targeting. You know, we announced that last year and over the course of the last year had a number of really interesting pilot examples. >> Can developers get involved in that Or is this more of SAP directly, kind of thing? >> Well that, is an example of where we are creating a solution that sort of packages it turnkey. But, you know when you think something like in Apple, the beauty of that one is, not only are we developing these beautiful industry applications, that are going to be in targeted industries, and I don't know if you saw them, they were out on the floor here. >> Yeah, impressive. >> With regard to retail, or with regard to.. >> Well start-ups will come out of the woodwork just in a short time, have hundreds of employees, with this ecosystem. >> Well, exactly. I guess the point I was making with the Apple deal, is not only are we working with to design some really incredible industry apps, but then we're also creating the software developer kit, making that into the Hana Cloud platform, so that if you're developing on Hana Cloud platform, it now becomes another compelling reason you can leverage these beautiful interfaces, and these beautiful tools, that take full advantage of native capabilities on the Apple devices. And so it's a way that our partnership not only delivers, kind of near-term solutions that matter for us, but enables our broader ecosystem of solution partners to capitalize. >> It's fastest to innovation. I mean, you're going to get more R and D, and then real production apps faster that way. >> Absolutely. >> From the developer. So that's Core. David Valente and I always talk about courses for horses, which is, you know, certain things fit certain ways. There seems to be now, with the Cloud platform, an opportunity for developers to come in. So I want you to explain how Hana fits in. 'Cause this, Hana Cloud and then this Hana Cloud platform. What's the difference between the two? Can you just quickly share what that means to the ecosystem? >> Well, Hana as a database, I mean, the thing about the Hana Cloud Platform is that, that creates platform for our solution partners to extend, and integrate, as well as build and develop on it. And you'd say, "Well, as a platform as a service," "are you guys using HCP, to go out there and win" "the past wars?" In the generic sense of the past, that's really not the intention. The intention is, we've got this huge installed base. We've got these service partners, who are working very closely with their customers to innovate on top of, so that once our customers move to that digital core of S4 Hana, they can use HCP as that extension and integration platform, to tie together a number of different things. And a lot of the things that are, you know, when you think about digital transformation, there is so much activity, and discussion around the customer experience, and architecting a beautiful customer experience, with mobile devices, with you know, targeted types of commerce on the front end. But, what people are coming to realize, I think, is the importance of having that end-to-end. Because, you aren't going to be able to deliver the beautiful experience. And so, the example with, you know I was on a panel yesterday with Uber and Tumi. As an example, Tumi, luxury retailer that wants to create, not only a compelling customer experience that embodies the best of its luxury brand, but also is facing the threat of Amazon Prime Same-Day delivery, in metropolitan areas. And the beauty is, by partnering with Uber, and SAP, we are able to incorporate that seamlessly, as an option for Same-Day delivery. They can deliver in 30 minutes, for seven dollars, it's game-changing. That's an example of where we provide, here at this event, an early window into the type of co-innovation that we are doing. It's sort of like, in the past where you'd think, "Well, SAP has a certain solution footprint," "and we're going to partner with other software companies," "who can plug-in to that footprint.". Now you have, in the new world, where there are industry ecosystems like Uber, platforms that you can capitalize on, it's the business network. You can plug-in business networks to, an overall solution to customers, that's really compelling and that delivers opportunities in ways that we couldn't have imagined a few years ago. >> I want to build on that. So, historically, strategy has been three to five years, tied to asset values, mainly fixed asset values, and how are we going to generate a return in those fixed asset, over an extended period of time. You're describing a world where, whereas especially as those assets become more programmable, they can be applied to a broader array of activities, and opportunities, where the horizon starts to shrink pretty dramatically, the strategic horizon. And it becomes more, "What capabilities do we have?", and "How do we improve those capabilities," "and drive them forward?". And that's a crucial way of thinking about partnerships, is partnerships, as capabilities. I think that's where you were going. >> Absolutely. >> Are you thinking now about partnerships in the ecosystem as crucial capabilities, not only for SAP, but for SAP customers? >> They've always been, in many ways, when you think about, customers need a whole solution. In the past, even when the on-prem software world, you didn't get the whole solution by just buying the software package, it required a lot of additional service. With the Cloud model's that are emerging, it's much more easy to consume the software functionality, but there still is a tremendous amount of on-going innovation, differentiation, customization. And that's why when you look at, a lot of where we're going with our solution, you can hear Mike Getlin talking about our success factors product, and the fact that, "Well, how do partners help us?", "Do our service partners help us in the same way" "of just implementing software?". No. There role is really in integrating and extending it, and creating micro-services on top of it, that then say, "This is a really unique capability" "that's essential for delivering value" "to this particular customer or client.". So, you're now finding that because of our ecosystem, that is getting plugged into these new ways of contributing, we can now have a broad array of contribution. People understand how they can plug-in and capitalize on that, and deliver real innovation and benefit to the end customer. >> So you look a lot at industry trends. As you walk the floor here, what trends are starting to emerge, for you, and what is getting you excited, as a strategist? >> From my standpoint, when you think about digital transformation, and honestly, we were joking a lot about this whole term, because when it first game out, it was sort of like, "I'm not familiar with anyone who's actually" "doing analogue transformation.". All IT is digital. We've been doing digital things for years. And transformation, I mean, I was involved in the early '90s and the big re-engineering wave. Right? Where you're re-engineering, using technology and what not, so what is really different here? And I think what we see, is that, through all these trends, there's sort of confluence of them, and people map out a dozen, two dozen different trends that are going to change the world, they speak breathlessly about all these things. But in the end, what difference does it really make? From my standpoint, it's really three. One is you're starting to see all these things change the customer experience, fundamentally. Right? To the real-time, mobile devices, one-to-one. That's being enabled now. You're also seeing the difference in how value is delivered, in terms of IOT, instrumenting the broader landscape, etc. And you're seeing a difference in business models, in terms of how value is captured. You can think about it as, "Well, how is value consumed?", "How is value being delivered?", "How is value being captured?". The real, so what, is that all these different individual technology trends are combining to make those differences happen, that enable completely different ways of making money, of growing of opportunity. >> It changes the analogue, where, the analogue piece used to be the transactional, digital then hands off to analogue, or vice versa. That whole thing, end-to-end you just talked about, is an end-to-end digital. But the analogue role of the person, is augmented differently. So what you said is interesting because, I think people look at it differently and say, "Hey, if it's digital end-to-end," "where does analogue fit in?". Well still, people walking around here at the show, we're face-to-face, so I think it's interesting when you look at the optimization of digital. I'll take sales leads, for instance or marketing automation. You know, get the form, pass the leads to the sales people, they go knock on the door, call, email, that's analogue transaction. That's now digital. >> Mitch: Right. >> But the still, analogue components. What's your thoughts on that? How do you look at it? 'Cause you still got to do business, the people still are going to be involved. >> That really hit home when we were talking about this Uber example, because everybody talks about Tumi, they were talking about, "Well, its a beautiful experience." for somebody to be able to then say, "I got a one-hour delivery.". We can all identify with going to a retail outlet and they say, "Oh, I'm sorry, we don't have any more" "of those in the store, but we've got one" "that's 40 minutes away, if you want to go drive there.". Well, what if now all of the sudden you can get the product in to this store, in the next 30 minutes? Or, deliver it to wherever you happen to be, in 30 minutes? That changes the game. >> John: And that's user experience. >> Yeah. But, the thing is, so that's nifty, that's great, it's really compelling. But, when you start thinking about what it would take to work this, okay? Well now, you're going to have to have an implication for those retail store people. And so, this notion of, "How are we making this" "a beautiful experience for the retail clerk?", who now, instead of just serving the store, is going to get pinged because, "Hey, wait a minute," "we've got some deliveries that you're going to have to" "pick and pack, to get ready for some Uber driver" "to come in." That's a change to them. So, when you talk about implication, that highlights all of the, "change management", all of the, "how does it make a difference" "in individuals work?", and there's always going to be that last mile engagement that is needed. And that's really when you start talking about trends, how do we see things changing, I think about our service partners, I see their role changing to enable the real business change. >> Well that's it, that's it. The impact is clear. Totally agree, 100%. It's the confluence that magnifies that change, and its massive. It's frickin' awesome. Everyone can look at it and say, "Damn, its going to be big!". My final question to you is, given that impact, what advice are you sharing with your ecosystem, in terms of how to prepare for it? How to be ready not to go out of business, or help your customers not go out of business? And enable them to actually compete, digitally, in the transformation. >> Well, when we look at it, part of the challenge is that the ecosystem is so diverse, that you know, often your guidelines are speaking to specific people. The one thing I would say is, everybody is going out and talking a digital message, we need to be on the same song sheet. So when your solution partner, or service partner, and you've got your own offerings, your own reference architecture's, et cetera, let's work together to make sure that we are all singing from the same sheet. Second thing is, it's really imperative that we, basically migrate our installed base, to the digital core. So, S4 Hana, getting enabled around that, making that change happen, that enables all sorts of other benefits. And the third thing would be, the importance of then leveraging Hana Cloud platform. Because, the integrations that were hard coded, from yesterday, are no longer valid. So, if you leverage Hana Cloud platform from integration standpoint, you're really allowing for this much more agile, and fluid, innovation cycle to happen, in a much faster clip. And that's really what our customers are going to need, and it's going to take all of us working together to deliver that promise, of digital transformation. >> Well the Apple deal puts you guys front and center, on the user experience side, consumerization of IT. The chess board, multiple dimensions of chess, going on at the SAP ecosystem. Mitch, thanks for coming on. >> Absolutely. >> Welcome to The Cube Alumni Club. This is The Cube here live at Sapphire, we'll be right back. You're watching, The Cube.