>> Live from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2019 brought to you by Cisco. >> Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage here in Mountain View, California for the theCUBE's coverage of Cisco DevNet Create. It's a small, intimate event where we're bringing the cloud native creation world with the DevNet community within Cisco and of course building applications, programming networks, that's the theme. I'm John Furrier, your host, our next guest is Darryl Sladden, senior technical product manager at Cisco, 20 year veteran, built voice over IP systems. He's a coder, he's a builder, he's a creator. Great to see you, thanks for coming on. >> Thank you so much, I'm glad to be here. >> And you're a fan? >> I love being on theCUBE. Because-- >> And the trivia behind that? Share the context, you had a product, you built one? >> Yes, the first product management job at Cisco was building the Cisco Unified Border Element and of course, that became the Cube, so any time you mention Cube inside of Cisco, that's going to be my product. >> The renaissance within Cisco theCUBE is back and we're embedded in there. Of course we're breaking all the borders down, getting the data. Tell us what's going on in your world? Obviously you've seen a lot of waves. I mean voice over IP that you were involved in? >> Yeah. >> That took, that old PBX telephone-- >> Right. >> Got digital, created massive innovation. That's an inflection point moment. We're seeing a few of those big waves happening now. One of them's an architectural changes around IoT, Wi-fi 6, 5G, cloud computing all coming together. This is an interesting opportunity. What's your focus? Where do you fit into all that? >> Yeah, where I fit in is this is a massive change and one of the problem sets that hasn't been solved yet is how do I understand where I am indoors? There's been great solutions that have unlocked huge amount of value with the GPS system outdoors. You always know where you are, a lot of way to find out exactly the right, it always amazes me at how accurate they are at how long it's going to take me to get to the Computer Museum. But how do I know once I've got into the museum that theCUBE is in the upstairs, in the back corner? That's where we need to solve that problem and I think we're at the crux of that. >> Waze is a great example because one of the things I'm amazed by with Waze is how fast they report the incidents that are going on. People are so actively rapid of adding, inputting the data. You got data junkies adding it and there's been some side effects. The side streets are always clogged. (laughing) >> Police always know-- >> So in physical locations where Wi-fi 6 for instance comes out? >> Yeah. >> You're going to have new capabilities in bandwidth and throughput and coverage areas, these dense areas. It's going to create a navigation opportunity for either machines to machines, machines to humans, humans to machines, humans to humans, within a physical construct. >> Yeah. >> How do you see that evolving? Use cases? What's the pattern? >> Right. What I really see evolving is taking advantage of some of the capabilities that have already existed in wi-fi, meaning ranging from individual IPs but some of the new things that are coming with Wi-fi 6 is Wi-fi 6 creates a great baseline but there are new things where, 802.11mc for example, which is an extension of Wi-fi 6, has what's called fine timing measurement. I can now, with these super accurate chip sets, know the speed of light is about one nanosecond to go about three feet. If I have an accurate clock, now I can know how far I am from the APs. >> Yeah. >> And I can solve that in indoor locations. >> So a lot of physics involved? >> A lot of rates of physics involved. >> Alright, so what products are you working on now to make all this happen. Take us through some of the things that are out there that you've got your fingers on. >> Yeah, so what I'm working on is Cisco's new location platform, it's called Cisco DNA Spaces and so what we're focusing on is digitizing that indoor space. So people spend of their economic activity are indoors. Whether it's in a hotel, where they're selling the rooms, or a restaurant where they're selling food inside the spaces, but what goes on in that physical space? People don't have that same level of knowledge that you do on the web, right? When I go to a webpage and I shop for outdoor furniture? The next two weeks I'm followed by ads about outdoor furniture. But if I go to Home Depot and I spend an hour in the outdoor furniture aisle, they don't know about that. Now, it allows you to digitize that indoor space and provide that context for other types of applications. >> So the value, I mean I'm not saying, now they're going to know you actually shopped at Home Depot, now your ad go to Home Depot. (laughing) But the value is not so much in the advertising. It's really in the efficiencies around work, play, office. These are the things that are going to be impacted because, you know, take healthcare for instance? Manufacturing? How people do work? How services are delivered? Just like in the consumer side, we all relate to the iPhone days when oh my god, I can have GPS on a phone. Now I do a mash up on a Google Map. >> Right. >> Are you saying the same thing for buildings? You're going to import like architectural drawings? How do you get all of this built out? What's the playbook? >> Yeah. The playbook really will be starting at the larger buildings that will be put into Google Maps or put into other places where it can start to get really accurate indoor locations and then never losing things, right? Be able to know where you are indoors. Being able to always find your stuff, not only where you are but maybe I put a tag on some of my assets and I always know where they are? The idea of nurses becoming more efficient because they're going to know where that wheelchair is if I need to find a wheelchair to move a patient out of an office. All of these things just become a little bit more efficient but that just builds on a huge scale when that happens at scale. >> Darryl, talk about the impact of this because you built and deployed disruptive technology in the past. For the folks watching, whether it's an enterprise architect or CIO or CEO or facilities manager, whoever, what is the impact of these new location based services to their business? How should they be thinking about it, holistically? >> Yeah. >> What's your view? >> My real view is that you want to look at it from a platform, so you're not going to have one company. Even at Cisco, we're not going to solve every application but what you do want to do is build a platform that's extensible, right? We'll take in data from multiple sources, whether it APs or video cameras, other things, create a platform that normalizes that location, and then opens that up. So that's what happened as the mainframes transitioned to client server computing. Once you start breaking things up? That's really the value and so I think the CIOS and architects out there, shouldn't be looking at point products as much as understanding that a location platform will help them unlock the value moving forward. >> Talk about the data. How is the data traversing through this? Because obviously you mentioned connecting things like cameras and other things? It could be medical equipment, it could be anything. IoT's going to be a tsunami of opportunity, applications that are going to create a lot of opportunity. How should I think about the data flow? And the role of machine learning and data in all of this? Is that going to be a key part of this? >> Absolutely, the way that we're looking at it is there's kind of two groups. There's the ones that are all in on the cloud, and we are offering this as a software as a subscription service so you buy it on a subscription basis and you let Cisco deal with the problems. Of course with a regulated environment of access to the data and backing it up and restoring it and making sure it's well curated. Or you can decide, yeah I want to run it on premises. If you want it on prem you have to understand you're going to have to deal with those same problems of back up, the data will get really large as you start to collect more and more location and how are you going to best extract value from that data? So I think you really want to look at that this is something that's going to continue to expand and do I want to make that a core competence by running it myself? Or maybe turn that over to cloud service? >> So in terms of what's real and not real or what's coming and what's real today? So you mentioned there's some location services as a SAS. Talk about what's available now from your customer standpoint. >> Yeah. >> What can they get going on and what's coming around the corner? >> Yeah, so what they can get going on today is that location services, Cisco DNA Spaces. So if you go to ciscodnaspaces.com there's free trials available, it's a great sort of application. But more importantly, it provides you that initial start, right? What's coming is more and more applications will take advantage of that, right? We got a great one for things like student success, so that you know a student is inside of a classroom and then if he doesn't come to class for a couple days in a row? Oh maybe he needs counseling? Maybe his car broke down? You can start to do these really interesting student success applications as an example of a vertical. So the vertical applications are starting to really proliferate, but what's available today is the platform. >> So you see verticals really booming on this? >> Yeah. >> They're going to take advantage of it? Alright, so just kind of zoom out and put your industry hat on, not your Cisco hat. When you look at wi-fi and 5G or other technologies that are out there, what's the big movement? What moves the ball down the field the most? Is it going to be wi-fi and 5G? Because it seems like, you know, inch by inch, unified communication seemed stalled, now it's got an uplift with cloud, with data, more great user experiences. SD-WAN's been around for a long time and getting a resurgence. I mean campus networking had been around for a long, long time. >> I know. (chuckling) >> People go to stadiums, want to do Instagram and do videos. What's the big technology lever here? What's the big tailwind for location based in-building stuff? >> What I start to see for this is improving standards and improving accuracy, right? Until you get to that point where it's reliable and replaceable and I can really depend on it? It's all a niche product. I think that's been happening for literally the last eight years in this industry. Lots of niche examples of things that have been successful but it hasn't exploded, until you build that platform where I can absolutely, with reliability say, this device is at this point at this time? >> Yeah. >> Then you can start to really expand but that's really-- >> The timing and the through put, to your point earlier? >> Yeah. >> Okay, thoughts on DevNet, just to wrap up. What's here? Going on in the show here? DevNet Create, Susie did a good job of bringing communities together. A lot of co-creation, they're creating new things. This is a new application environment, programmable. What's your thoughts on DevNet? >> Yeah, I love being around some of the smartest people in the world here. (laughing) It's great. Humbling just to be able to talk to some of these guys. But I do think that really creates the community that teaches everything from little things, like I learned a quick, great new little API trick that I hadn't learned and maybe I taught some people some of the stuff that we're doing about streaming APIs. What I really like about this is all these small little interactions build something really good. >> Yeah. And you build API into all the products that's only going to create more enablement. >> Yeah. >> More creativity. The creativity's flowing big time. >> Right. >> Darryl, thanks for coming on. >> Well thank you so much. >> Great to see you. Thanks, a CUBE fan. >> Right. (laughing) >> Author of the product called The Cube at Cisco back in the day. I'm John Furrier, back with more live coverage after this short break. (light digital music)

>> Live, from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE! Covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hey, welcome back to theCUBE, Lisa Martin with John Furrier covering day two of Cisco DevNet Create 2019, and guess who we're here with? Susie Wee SVP and CTO of Cisco DevNet. Susie thank you so much for having theCUBE here and for joining John and me today. >> Oh thank you for being here. >> So this event, there were so many bodies in here yesterday, it was pretty toasty, it's getting toasty now, this is the third DevNet Create, this community John and I have been hearing that and feeling it and seeing it, see it, learn it, code it, kind of all on your theme there the last day and a half. This is a really inspiring, really national sharing community that you guys have built here. >> It is, it's amazing, I mean just the energy here as you bring together folks. Everybody wants to learn, there's so many new technologies out there, but new technologies that can turn into business advantage, and the attendees here they all feel it, and it's a different mixture of people because there's app developers, there's infrastructure and networkers, and just bringing these folks together to see what they can achieve is amazing. So that's the energy that you can really feel here. >> And the thing that's interesting and that I'd like to perspective on where this all started from, is DevNet Create is interesting, you know Amazon's Andy Jassy, the CEO of Amazon Web Services, uses the term builders. So you hear builders, maker culture, create. But creation is a critical part of your ethos here, and with cloud computing, Microsoft's earnings came out they were a trillion dollar market cap now, Amazon crushes their earnings again, you're seeing what cloud is doing that's enabling these creators, a new class of developer, but it's not like a new breed, it's just a new kind of orientation. This is part of your vision to share the story. >> Well and kind of the whole thing is that, you know I'm all about innovation and creation. And I believe that people just want to create. My four year old, she just wants to create. It's just in people's blood, but to now get out there and to do it, you need a catalyst. You can't just sit in a room and then create, and sometimes it's about how you bring new fields together, how you bring new technologies together, how you bring non-technologies together, how you just bring different types of people and perspectives together, and that's really what DevNet Create is all about. So, we started DevNet five years ago, just with the idea that the network is going become programmable. The infrastructure is going to provide more resources, and it's going to be programmable and provide more power to applications, so from then to now, last summer we hit half a million developers, now we're at 590 thousand developser, and we're growing. >> Well we're lucky to be part of it and thank you for including theCUBE in DevNet Create, and bringing something to the DevNet community. It's been fun and inspirational, but to be practical in the industry, you need to have a wind at your back, you need to have a wave to ride on, and creation is also about momentum. And if you look at the marketplace today, there's some big waves happening. Cloud computing is obvious, one everyone looks at, that's already changed the nature of companies, Cisco's multi-cloud looking at a bigger vision there. But new waves are coming, I mean Wifi Six is a game changer, you've got 5G. So you talked about this in the keynote, I want you to take a minute to explain that the big waves that you outlined, because with big waves there's more fun, there's more creation. There's wealth creation, there's economic vitalizations, a new vibe. Share the waves. >> Inside of the whole thing is that we say there's the infrastructure. You get your networking, you get your compute, it evolves to cloud computing and all of that, but on top of that are these applications. And this amazing set of applications, and we know that those are creating entirely new and disruptive businesses and business models, and there's a lot of growth in all of that. Now traditionally what happens is that with every wave of infrastructure advancement, comes a new set of applications and businesses, so going back to our olden days but, there was a time where you started to get a converged IP network, or you put data and voice together on an IP network, and then came voice over IP. Then came cloud computing. And you can do internet search, and you know, we're old enough to remember before then. Then you got 3G, and instead of just having the cell phone, you could do mobile apps on cell phones, so you had mobile apps. And then with 4G, you could do mobile video, and now you just expect it. Now you could think, okay the infrastructure is done, but no there's more, so some of the things that are happening right now that's really exciting is that, is I kind of talked about it in three areas. In networking we a have a couple really big things going on, which is Wifi Six and 5G. And so there's a whole site and we'll talk more about that. In computing there's the fact that actually GPU's are everywhere, and with that you can do AIML everywhere. So AI and machine learning. And then the third one is just an advancement in architecture. We knew that we'd move to mobile, we knew that we moved to compute, but now what becomes real is the edge. Edge computing. And so when you bring these things together you have new capabilities in network with Wifi Six and 5G, you have new capabilities in computing because GPU's are everywhere so you can do AI and ML, and then you actually have a spot at the edge where you can do edge processing, and then all of a sudden there's this whole new world of applications just waiting to be built, and we want to let developers know that. Because you kind of develop and you build from what you know, like oh this is just how good I can do, but there's a whole new capability coming. >> Well first of all, let's unpack those talk chats, because one of the things that I, as an entrepreneur, you know we've always talked about this, the creativity that comes from entrepreneurial thinking, whether your a true entrepreneur starting a company, or within a company doing that inside a company, takes creative juices, you got to have that catalyst as you mentioned, but also you got to imagine new ideas, right. And so by enabling, say Wifi for instance, everyone knows what Wifi is, but when you think about the new advances of Wifi and having connectivity with wireless and wired networks, with new data access, it just opens up this creative outlet. This is going to be the tsunami or the renaissance of applications. And you've been talking about it. >> It is, it is. And so like if we kind of geek out, because I was working on HD TV before it really became HD TV and their doing things like OFDM, and you know, we're so excited, spread spectrum technologies, but right now with Wifi Six, we can really geek out again. So OFDM is moving to OFDMA, OFDM multiple access. That means like, an access point usually talks to one client at a time, but now it can split up and talk to multiple clients at a time. And with that you can actually get much higher capacity, right so you can actually really use your kind of, network more efficiently, and then you can actually now also do scheduling. And then you can actually guarantee that a client is going to be scheduled in and get transmissions. That changes what you can do with Wifi and the way you think about it. And then there's this power savings, because now we can tell a device the time to wake up, so you kind of sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep, here's your target wake up time. Sleep sleep sleep sleep sleep, here's your target wake up time, that extends battery life, so you can have sensors that'll be out there for one year, five years, ten years, doing its thing. And so that takes all those IoT applications you've always wanted to build, but makes them real. Because someone has to go up and install that sensor, and the battery life matters. >> And so the second wave is the GPU anywhere which I like, because when you think of GPUS, Nvidia, you're thinking of graphics, you're thinking of gaming, but it's actually a processor for machine learning, so what are your thoughts on this because if you put GPUs in devices everywhere, and the data that you're now accessing across the network brings more intelligence. What's the impact of this GPU anywhere? Is it just IoT, is it just applications, what's the net net? >> So kind of, the most important thing about it is that before, you kind of needed to have a PhD to do AI and machine learning, right? And we have friends who are experts at that and they're continuing to push the envelope in there. I was just back at MIT and just the advances in AL and ML is amazing. But the other thing that's happening is that this is just getting wrapped up so developers can just use it. So you can actually have a TensorFlow.js library that'll just sit on your mobile device. You can actually just using your browser, you can actually write a web app that uses that and then uses the GPU, which just means right there you can write a little web app, with like five lines of code, you can say, find all the people in this picture. Find the bottles in this picture. Right so just be like, doing that on the fly, and you don't have to have a PhD in machine learning, you can actually, developers can just use this capability. And so that's kind of what unlocks it, is just because it's accessible to everyone and now you'll get that mixed wave of innovation when people can just use it and find the right applications for it. >> So looking at these three big changes that you've talked about, network, compute, architectural, did you leverage these big waves to design this years Create? Because we're hearing all about the three technologies tracks. Tell us a little bit about that. >> It is, well so first of all we have Wifi Six here, live, and people know there's the idea of it, we've done some performance tests around it and we're like it screams. You know, it just, it really does scream, and you're used to not counting on that, right? And so it opened up peoples' eyes and they're thinking differently now about what they can do here. >> What sort of reactions of the geeks at Cisco when they look at the data of Wifi Six, what's some of the anecdotal reactions that they're saying? >> People are surprised, cause everybody's kind of cynical about it. Cause, quite honestly, even getting ready for it, it just like guys we're going to jump on Wifi Six. And they're like eh, yeah, well, whatever. And then one of my guys Oshitosha went off and did the speed test and he started working with it and he came back into my office, his eyes were popped out of his head, (gasp), that's fast. >> And you showed that yesterday, all the cameras came in like, whoa! >> Because you don't have that expectation, but once you know it, it's going to really unleash this whole new set of things. There's actually something else interesting we did with the edge processing with the GPUs which is the idea of edge computing, not a new idea, the reality of it, is still coming into play. Now what happens is Cisco just announced some new products. These industrial routers, it's an industrial gateway, it means that you can like put it up on the telephone pole, you can put it into a manufacturing plant, you know at high temperatures, and it's the gateway that will connect all of your devices and senors, and be the networking conduit to get everything back. So that's an awesome product, the mass product actually hosts applications. And what matters is the deployment of these infrastructures, right? So Cisco's partners will get out there, they're going to sell and kind of install this networking equipment in manufacturing companies, but now it can host applications so developers can actually reach it. And so now that's a place for developers, but we're doing something new here, which is that we have a prototype of taking that product, we have a prototype GPU, a Nvidia Jetson that we've put on top of it, and we're letting developers hack at it. And say, would you use this? Like, tell us some of your best ideas, try it out. Because we still need to figure out the market and what's there, and we're doing it with developers. >> And where do they go with the creativity there? Because obviously one's a gateway so they're used to gateways, and they understand edge devices. What are some of the ideas that are going to come out of hacking a GPU? Is it running data analytics on the edge? Is it hosting an application and managing edge devices themselves? What are some of the cool things? >> I mean things like video sensing. So now like at your edge you have lots of cameras and because you can do GPU processing, you can actually take these multi-camera inputs, do video sensing algorithms, you know things that you kind of dreamed about before, but now just doing that for real. You know, finding construction workers, finding the hard hats, in the images to make sure that you can actually have people be safe. One thing that we know about AI and machine learning, is like a lot of times people say, okay I'm going to hire a data scientist, a data scientist comes in, and they can't really get the data. Like they don't have anything to work on until there's a good data set to work on. Well actually as you connect up these environments, that's one data set coming in. So you connect up like transportation systems, like SCADA, like utilities protocols, you're actually talking to manufacturing equipment. >> Real time data from traffic, Teslas. >> Exactly. And so that stuff comes in, but then you need to kind of munch on that data to know, when should I be looking, how can I get it into a form that I can do some AI and machine learning on it. >> So new use cases, you expect new use cases to emerge? >> They are, and it's really cool because there was a time when there was all of this stuff you could do on the web, and in the cloud, and with our applications, but it's coming back to the physical world. >> And that's what you mean by the edge, is then this architectural thing, that's really the edge. The new architecture of having these kinds of capabilities is going to create sets of applications that we've never seen before. New startups, new applications. >> It is and really the kind of thing with DevNet Create is bringing in the community of people who do install infrastructure, knowing that this infrastructure is becoming programmable, and having that able to host the applications and the innovations that are coming from the developers, it's like, it just unlocks entirely new business models. And I think here these two communities are meeting and mixing, and I think that's the energy that we're seeing out here. Because they didn't expect to talk to each other. When we started DevNet Create, we knew that it was coming, we didn't know how the people would mix, and this has evolved to where people are mixing in entirely new ways and making connections, and someone who's written an app is like, oh, you're a partner, you can deploy this in all different countries, that's a new kind of deployment model for my app. >> We talked a little bit about that yesterday, with our guest as well as Mandy, and you've got these kind of different worlds colliding, but one of the things that John pointed out, is that this is not a marketing driven event, this is not for lead generation, this is a truly collaborative event, and you're getting clearly developers and infrastructure guys and girls from clearly, very probably, computing companies who are sharing. So I can imagine the cultural change that this can bring to, born in the cloud, traditional enterprise, maybe something that wasn't originally planned, but I can just imagine these worlds colliding and seeing how much better they can work together. >> And that is something that with DevNet, if you even go to the world of networking and IT and you know, just enterprises, there's a new model. So things become programmable, people's biggest problem is automation, doing things at scale, like how do I go ahead and deploy my networks across all these sites around the world? You can automate that. How do I take machinery and get business insights from that so I can actually use it for more, you know, you want to do that in software. And so you have to change your mindset cause then it is about collaboration, it's about sharing software and everyone knows that they can get there faster by sharing code and ending up with a code repository, we have code exchange, that we've created in DevNet, we've just opened it up last year, we now have over 400 repos, we just crossed over 400 on there. >> You guys are changing the way people are doing work within your own community, both DevNet and DevNet Create, bringing those worlds together. And it's working, it's magical so congratulations on all the success you've had. I got to ask you about your journey because we've talked years before you even joined Cisco and we've been following and talking to you since you've been here, and I was saying on our opening yesterday, Cisco as a company is like a big aircraft carrier, it's making the big move right, and you're seeing Chuck Robinson, the CEO, cloud, everything has APIs on, every portfolio project got APIs, so he's the pulling company into telemove, which is let's get cloudified, let's figure out our role in cloud computing and beyond, and you're mentioning some of those things, as you continue to show progress in the growth of DevNet and the community, it's changing Cisco. And we're seeing as we cover with theCUBE, and Chuck's called you out publicly and said Susie, great job, so this is a recognition that DevNet and the work that you and your team are doing is changing the face of Cisco internally and externally. How is that going, as the battleship starts to move, and by the way, data center is still more important than ever before with fibrated multicloud, things are lining up for Cisco, and you're a big part of it. What's going on in the company, and what's Chuck Robinson saying to you in your meetings with him, like hey, good job, or let's double down. >> Yeah, no Chuck is an amazing leader. And Chuck completely understands the vision, and that's why he's been supporting DevNet. So he's been supporting DevNet, not just because oh, he likes Susie or anything like that, it's because he understands the importance of programmability he understands what it means for starting new businesses and creating new business models. What it means for the ecosystem to grow into it, what that opportunity is. So he's always understood it, and I'm super lucky because he's been supporting these efforts. But now what's happening is of course he wants more. And I just presented to Chuck and his executive leadership team last week, about the plans that we have going forward. We've actually just kind of, what I would say is that, we've done the MVP of DevNet, so I know that you know, we've got the half a million members, actually almost 600 thousand >> Product market fit, it's all there >> We know have like, real assets, we have a real community, we have companies that are changing how they work, using our assets and really forming in this community, and now to get it to the next level, he's actually really kind of, sponsoring and working with us to develop it to the next level. And really the team is all coming together. The engineering team, the customer experience teams, sales and marketing, and then how we work externally with all of our communities. And so we're really growing into the next level. >> And you've got a great team, you know we've worked with all of you team, a lot of your team, but one of things that I like about what you've done here, is that, and you said it yesterday on stage at closing keynote, you feel like a star, you used the word MVP, minimum viable product. That's a startup word. So you have this startup culture, and you're in a big company so it's working. Is it contagious, are people, are there antibodies coming at you, are there people joining you, what's going on because how do you keep that startup vibe going. >> Yeah, I think that I'm just very fortunate because my team all has that attitude, they're very externally driven, so they're like, how do I help our developers, how do we help our community, how do bring them along, and we totally drive ourselves by that. And then we're constantly asking them how can we help you more, what do you want from us, and they say if we're doing something that's not useful to you, tell us now so we can stop, so we can build something else. And so we continue to evolve. And so we actually listen and then we really figure out how to go to that next level. Now what's really fun is that also though, we work with all of the other organizations, right, so you know I'm not going to replicate the sales force, we work with them, I'm not going to replicate the SEs that are out on the field. They're using DevNet, and they're running their own DevNet express events in their countries for their partners and customers. So we've really built out, really collaboratively and we've gotten so much support. And the first days, everyone was like, hey, guys you have a software strategy, you need to look at developers, you need APIs, and they're like nice job Susie, yes. Keep on going. >> You're bringing the Dev Ops ethos to the culture. DevNet's an API to all the other organizations. >> Well and now that we are where we are, it's just, it's the partnerships like our product teams are investing and improving their APIs. We advocate for the developers viewpoint into those, and it's a collaboration. Like so I don't make the products, our product teams make the products. I don't sell the products, our sales team sells the products. Right, so we've really brought together the forces and we're fortunate because everyone is joining in. >> Well it sounds to me like what DevNet is doing, is really driving this organic cultural evolution within Cisco. Is it, would you say, and maybe I'm making a leap here, it sounds to me, like what I've seen, and this is my first DevNet as well, is that DevNet seems to be an accelerator of Cisco's evolution. >> I would it's an accelerator, and you know, what I want to say is that we have great efforts going on across the company, and people are trying to figure it out. So I can't say I'm the one driving it, that would just be too much to say. But we are trying to accelerate each other's efforts and now that we've grown a community, we've provided a platform. Like, we do get more than a million eyeballs a month onto our site. And we use that as a channel, so we really working to accelerate and kind of catalyze each other's efforts. >> And if you step out and zoom out, you can see how it all hangs together. You've got APIs in all the products, so that's an enabler. You have developer onboarding of new kinds of customers and existing ones melting together, kind of in the same melting pot of developers, and you got the cloud wave behind you, and Ad Gen AI. And then you can see Cisco becoming multicloud, it's almost like it's feeding and turning in the right spot, where, I mean you don't have a cloud, but I mean you have connectivity, you have data, you have Dev Ops, Net Dev, so it seems like a nice positioning for the future. But you have all this other revenue and customers, so it's going to take some time. >> We have great products. Our products five years ago, we had handful of products with APIs. Now, our whole portfolio is programmable. So that's not my efforts, those are the product teams building great products, and entering this world of programmability. We're bringing in the community and giving them the tools so they can use them, right? So otherwise you can't just make a product and have it sit there, you need to help it come along. >> Okay, what was your presentation to Chuck? What's the vision? Where do you go next? You've got some great momentum, congratulations on the success, we love being a part of this, a lot of action. It's very inspiring and intoxicating at the same time, what's next, what's the vision? >> Yeah, so really if we, and I love the way that we've built up DevNet, is because we started with our developers, and the communities that needed to become developers, or power users of software. So, we've done the technical enablement, like we have documented APIs, we have learning labs, we have sandboxes so people can just code. So we've really been focusing on enabling them and providing all that technical enablement. And now what happens is people are asking us, how do I make this real, how do I spread this across my organization, how do I bring these solutions to my customers and then to the world? And in order to do that I need to change how I do manufacturing, in order to do this, I need to change how we build solutions, and so help us with that fuller solution, so we're really stepping up to go beyond the technical enablement, to just bringing it to reality, and to real solutions that are in operational environments, and so it's just really exciting to be working together on all that. And then we'll have a bunch more new stuff coming that we'll talk about at Cisco Live. >> And you have a great party at Cisco Live, you also have those social club event, you got to keep that going, right? >> Of course, we'll keep the social club going and we'll have a bunch of new things to announce at Cisco Live as well. >> It's starting in just a few weeks from now, so last question, your takeaway from this, some of the anecdotes that you've heard the last day and a half of DevNet Create 3. >> Yeah, so you know, kind of the vision that we had set forward. And it's one that we've been thinking about it, it's just that the infrastructure really enables a new set of applications and business models. And we had the idea of it, but again with these advances that we talked about, with Wifi Six and 5G, with GPUs enabling AI and machine learning, and with edge computing, is that people get it. And people know that it's not like some day you will have this, and some day you will have that, which I've been in research, I know that view. But it's actually like right here and right now. >> Making it real. >> Making it real, and it's available for people to use, like this next one to two years is going to be super exciting for the industry, cause it's not just theoretical, it's not just what it could do, but there's real goals that are right out there for people to develop exciting new things. >> I wish I was younger, I wish I was in my 20s, I mean like. >> It's okay, we take old people and young people all together, diversity, yes. >> More inclusion, young and old. It's so exciting because it's such an enablement, and knowing what's the megatrends that are the real waves, it's actually real, it's happening. >> And I actually want to, while we do talk about diversity and inclusion and enablement, what's really exciting is I just brought us that, we have some of our partners who are transforming themselves, and we actually have some women in tech initiatives that have started out. >> I love that, tell us about it. >> Okay so, Presidio, Verizon, they've invested in helping the women in their organizations, well they're helping everybody evolve to embrace programmability and automation to understand the application, you know the opportunities there. So they are fully, kind of, taking this paradigm and transforming their workforces to embrace it. But in addition we've partnered to also provide extra support, and call out for the women who are making the journey, and who have to, you know, face maybe some additional challenges, or just ensuring that they have the opportunity and they get the visibility, and they've both sponsored, so Presidio, Verizon, have both sponsored bringing some of their women to DevNet Create. >> I loved how you brought them on stage this morning, without telling them. They endeavor you, and you just had this genuinely enormous smile of pride. >> I'm so proud of them. >> And you should be. But that's amazing that Cisco and DevNet is also making that investment in women in technology. >> And we're doing it together with them and I'm just proud of what their doing, and this is the workforce. You saw the women up on stage if you guys watched the keynote, you'll see that it's out there. These are the people you want to hire, and why would you not use that workforce. >> Exactly, why would you not? >> And get them all young too, like you mentioned your daughter, when she starts putting the Meraki switch at home, you know you've made it. She's almost ready. >> Yes she's handling a computer for me already, she's like mommy you have two, how come I don't have one? >> She says mommy why are you using command line? >> That's next! Susie, you're an inspiration, an inspirational female in technology, we all often gravitate towards Sheryl Sandberg. I think we should start including Susie Wee in that. Thank you so much, >> No thank you very much. For having us at DevNet, it's been a pleasure to meet you, and have the chance to interview you, and we can't wait to see where do you go from here. >> We will continue to change the world together, thank you. >> I love it. Awesome. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE live, from Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

(techno music) >> Live from Mountain View California, it's the Cube covering DEVNET CREATE 2019, brought to you by CISCO. >> Hey, welcome back to the Cube. Lisa Martin with John Furrier covering, day two covering I should say, CISCO DEVNET CREATE 2019, at the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California. We're please to welcome Prashanth Shenoy, the VP of Product Marketing, Enterprise Networks and DEVNET at CISCO. Prashanth it's great to have you join John and me this afternoon. >> Great to be here. >> So, this event is growing year after year. John and I have been talking about this very strong sense of collaboration and community with the attendees that are here in person. One of the big things yesterday that Susie was talking about was this, What's coming in Wi-Fi? Talk to us about this next-gen Wi-Fi and how it's going to be so impactful to everyone. >> Yeah it's, it's a phenomenal technology inflection point this year, I feel. We can't believe it, but you know, when was the first Wi-Fi that got started? >> 2001. >> Pretty close, 1999. So this is the 20th Anniversary of Wi-Fi. It's come to be life, right? so it's now in its fourteenth. >> I'm off by two years. >> Right, so yeah, I know. (laughter) But, 802.11A was the first Wi-Fi technology, and the speeds were ... promised speeds were 54-megabits, okay? Ah, but the real speeds were, like, 6-mega or something, right? And now, this is the sixth generation of Wi-Fi, so we've come a long way and we take it for granted in our daily life. >> Absolutely, we do. >> I don't think I can think a day without having Wi-Fi. >> Everyone talks about Wi-Fi. The kids, What's the Wi-Fi password? (laughter) I change it all the time, kids, this ... parents, pro tip. Change the password. >> Yes. You got to listen. They'll call you, your kids will call you back. It's an important tip. >> Full-on security, yeah. >> But distance is been an issue, distance, and >> Yeah. >> Radio Frequency has certain >> Yeah propagation technique so, >> Yeah. >> Are you close to the router? That room doesn't have, this doesn't have it. So there's always been distance. And throughput. >> latency, throughput, capacity. >> Most people say who's streaming Netflix, Wi-Fi is down, so again people know this they experience it everyday. >> Exactly. >> What's the big hubbub about Wi-Fi 6? What's different? I got a little preview from Todd so I'll let you explain it but >> Yeah. >> What is the notable bullet points of why it's different? >> Yeah. >> And, Why it's a game changer? >> So it's, as with every technology, three things that it always brings up, better experiences, better capacity, increase capacity, and better battery savings, which I think is very important for users but more importantly useful for IOT applications, which is ... I'm very very excited on what its going to unleash when it comes to IOT. It's been in the fringe side of IOT, like oil and gas mining utilities is what we think when we think of IOT. And now we're going to think IOT in corporate space like this, right? Each one these devices are IOT devices now, like your HVAC systems, your lighting system, air conditioning systems, physical surveillance cameras. Everything with the Wi-Fi is IOT. And because of this increased capacity, an increase density, high density environment where this capacity becomes really critical, imagine 20 devices simultaneously using Wi-Fi to communicate high Bandwidth intensive application. That's when Wi-Fi 6 becomes really critical and powerful and that opens up a huge - >> So more coverage area. >> Yeah. >> With the Antenna. It's MIMO Antenna. >> Yeah. >> And Bandwidth, right? >> Capacity and Bandwidth, like compare to .11A, and even .11AX, right it's up to 4X better capacity, 4X better battery savings and the promised throughput of like six gigabits, right, so, But the key part here is simultaneously talking to multiple devices at the same time. And that is very very crucial because of technologies ... I don't want to geek out here, like OFDMA and all this etc. >> Well let's all ... architectural because one thing Susie brought up was, architectural shifts are going to be the big game, One of the game changes you brought up and you know Wi-Fi ... and I have seen it grow from the beginning, I remember when they first came out was a revelation and you know the battery power was an issue but it always was viewed as a peripheral to the network. >> Yeah. >> You bolt on Wi-Fi and just basically extend your land - >> Yeah. >> To use network parlance and now you're seeing people working on making it much more Core 1 Network. >> Absolutely. And Meraki kind of shows the benefit of having wireless and wired - >> Yeah. work together as one. >> Yeah, absolutely >> This seems to be the thesis behind Wi-Fi six. One core thing. >> Yeah. >> Not a bolt-on extension. >> No, absolutely. I think there's a saying which is the reality, behind every wireless there are tons of wires, right. So, 'cause everything that's connected to the wire infrastructure, and with the Wi-Fi 6 now having increased capacity and increased density, it's causing a cascading effect into the rest of the network infrastructure so it becomes highly, highly crucial when you architect your network infrastructure not just to think about wireless but what happens to the access switch, to the core, to the distribution, to the aggregation. And that has a compounding effect, like multi gig speeds in the access to 10 gig to 40 gig in the core going all the way to 100 gig, right, so, the whole performance and reliability to have that immersive experience that Wi-Fi six needs to bring in, needs to be there. >> so for developers and entrepreneurs out there who always look for the white space, CISCO is a big Multi-Billion dollar company. You guys got big market share, whenever there's big moves like this it causes a new change in the order, the pecking order - >> Yeah >> of companies, it changes the landscape. This is going to be a game changer because it's going to create the new opportunities to create new things. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> What are some of the things that you see out there you could share for people watching who are you know hacking around creating things who say, I want to create something big. What's the enablement? What are some of the things that you see happening that are going to be emerging out of this? >> Yeah, a lot of Fringe technologies that are fringe right now are going to be mainstream, like imagine 2006, When iPhone came in, right so and we were just having the discussion, like, that came in at the heels of major shift in connectivity, that's when 3G came in, right, at that point and multi-megabit capacity, and you saw new applications come in. Now Uber, Lyft, all these kind of applications were possible because of the connectivity. And now, Wi-Fi 6 along with 5G will unleash the next wave of applications. So, first thing is immersive applications, things that are VR, AR, it's used for gaming right now, and kids use this, you're going to see that come in hospitals, where surgeons can do remote surgeries, they can have high-density imagery of your brain, for example, as you're operating, being sent to a remote expert and on the fly, make decisions, right? Like, that is going to be pretty normal and standard, in fact, quite a few of our customers are testing this out, right? VR learning, for students, like, if I were to go ... Like, imagine if you are at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, August 1963, right, listening to MLK "I Have A Dream" speech, and you're in the crowd, immersed in the VR, like, which student wouldn't have more recollection and really connect with that, right? >> I'm sorry, wait - >> You're going to see more and more of these, so it's a better way of learning, and really getting that learning sticking in your brain, you're going to see more of that happening. And the same goes with retail experience, you're shopping, it's going to completely change the way, because of all these immersive experiences. And then, because of the higher density, you're going to see entertainment venues like stadiums where everybody now wants to share their experience to the outside world, and livestream it, right? And I was talking to Carnival Cruise Line, who's one of our customers, and they call themselves City On The Sea, which means, a cruise ship is nothing but it has entertainment, casinos, hotels - >> Lots of food. (laughs) >> Lots of food, swimming pools Concerts happening, and when people took vacation they just wanted to disconnect from everything in the world, right? Now, it's completely reversed. They want to connect full-on, and share their experience in the land, right? And they want to stream it live, 4K. And, these cruise ships are transforming themselves to provide this always-on, fully-on immersive digital experience, and they're creating things like a mobile app to order pizza no matter where you are on the ship. Within five minutes they're going to find the exact location of where you are on the ship and deliver pizza to you, right? These kind of experiences will happen! >> And you know, the perfect storm in all this too, is that the Cloud earnings are coming out, we saw Microsoft's earnings yesterday, Amazon Web Series' earning >> Yeah. do proud of Amazon today, the Cloud stocks are up, the Clouds are growing at a massive scale, they're a power source for these application developers. >> Yeah. >> As well as the on-premise business. So you have, you now have the perfect developer environment - >> A hundred percent. >> To create these new wacky ideas that will be standard. I mean, what was once ... what we take as standard as you mentioned, was a wacky idea in 2006. >> Yeah. >> Location services, checking into a hotel with my phone and having - >> Yeah. >> Cars being delivered to me, what? Who does that? >> And this, this becomes a reality, and Cloud really increased the pace of innovation, right? Now it's kind of cheaper, you don't need to get your own server, you can kind of swipe your credit card, get a bunch of VM, start building applications, and now you have the required bandwidth capacity and density in your infrastructure, and you have the right devices right now to bring that experiences to you, right? So, now it's this trifecta of things, awesome devices, the network ready to deliver those experiences, and Cloud being able to scale out to build those experiences. >> Prashanth, I know you've got a big announcement coming up on the 29th, it's a virtual event, I think Cisco.com, they can probably find out with the URL where the event is, without revealing all the secret sauce, I know you guys had Wi-Fi 6 inside Cisco, >> Yeah. >> testing it out, I heard people in the hallway here, >> Yeah. >> Talking about it, um, and they're pretty animated in their commentary. Can you share the vibe and what's it like when the engineers look at the data, when they say, we just deployed the Wi-Fi 6, what was the reactions, um - >> Yeah. >> Were they blown away, was it mediocre, was it - >> Yeah. >> What were some of the things that they were saying, what was the feedback? >> We were piloting that, and the best way to look at it is, if you go to the wireless dev center on DevNet, you're going to see that we compared a 4K video running with Wi-Fi 6 and without Wi-Fi 6. I think the results speak for themselves. Like, the kind of experience that you're going to see, it's going to be beautiful, and when employees look at those things, and I talked about a few experiences, last week we had a thing called Cisco Beat which is internal employees that we rally around and talk about technology, but more importantly, what it means to us as human beings in a personal way, and what it means to our customers, and they were blown away with some of the applications that are going to be mainstream in all of the industries that I talked about, right? Like Healthcare, hospitality, education, entertainment venues, et cetera. >> What's the low-hanging fruit use cases? What's the things that are going to be right obvious, right out of the gate for companies to implement, in terms of deploying Wi-Fi 6 and seeing immediate benefits? >> Immediate benefits is high-density environment, period. Like student lecture halls, convention centers, areas like this, where everybody wants, like, understand what's going on, but be digitally and visually connected, right? It's not only about email checking anymore, That happens automatically. But if you're here and you want to watch Susie's keynote livestream right now, with high density, and 20 other people want to watch with you, on their devices, it's possible, without a hitch. So that seamless, always-on experience becomes a reality that people can easily test out in small environments, right? Not in their entire environment, where there are high-density of people, accessing multi-media applications or high-bandwidth applications, so I feel that's a low-hanging fruit. And then it's going to go more and more towards IOT applications where sensors are getting connected, like some of our customers are brewers, have hundreds and thousands of sensors in their farms, in brewing machines, and they want all of their data to come and look at that simultaneously for quality control, right? Beer, no matter where it's made, should taste consistent, right? So you can see that coming to life, because now all of these can be connected, and because of better density and better capacity and better battery savings for these IOT devices that Wi-Fi 6 provides, you make these applications possible. So you're going to see very vertical-specific applications coming more and more with Wi-Fi 6. >> Vertical-specific, because you mentioned a number of different customer examples, you know, ranging from retailer, to - >> Yeah. >> Carnival Cruise Line, it's now this connected city - >> Yeah. >> Are there any verticals you see where, when you're talking with customers they're not quite there yet? >> Yeah, that's an interesting thing, it's ... for a change, you always have these early adopters but there is a lot of laggers who are just watching, waiting on the sidelines saying, mm, that's not for me. With Wi-Fi 6, there's been a lot of industry excitement, I would say, like manufacturing full-on, right, just coming on board. Retail, higher education, are always in the early-adopter phase, because for them, and there has been studies shown to say this directly impacts their brand - >> Yes. >> like customer experience defines brand. >> Oh, absolutely. >> And Wi-Fi, equals customer experience these days, right? So, you're going to see all of these industries really, I think I haven't seen much in maybe financial services, if you will, I think that's the only thing that I can remember, transportation, big on, like, machine to machine communication, autonomous driving is possible now because of 5G and Wi-Fi 6, right? So, and you are seeing more and more of this industry - >> This is right in your wheelhouse, and you guys have been pushing the edge for a long time, SD Wind, campus networking This is not new to Cisco. >> Yeah. >> But now with Wi-Fi 6, it literally lights that up. >> Yeah. Yup. >> Pun intended. >> I mean, you can now enable those environments to be completely robust, fully addressable, data-driven - >> Yeah. I think data that you mentioned becomes very, very crucial in this, because, especially now when you have so many more users, so many more devices, so many more applications getting on the network, people are really trying to figure out, what do I do with this? How do I get visibility into ... am I delivering the right experience? Am I providing the right security, et cetera, right? So, data becomes extremely crucial, and you'll see emergence of ML and AI technology because it's going to be humanly impossible to look at all of the data and make sense. So you've got to do machines, do their job, figure out patterns, air on dwell time, foot traffic, predictive ways of saying things may break, the experience may change, and predicting that even before they happen, and giving the right insight to the IT in the line of business, so Wi-Fi 6 is going to open up a whole new slew of ML and AI-driven operations and management capability too, so that's pretty exciting. >> When are they going to pull up a GPU on the Wi-Fi 6 devices? >> (laughs) Oh, it's happening. >> It's ready? >> It is going to happen, because you can run Edge computing applications right on Wi-Fi 6 devices, so you're going to see all of that, so, application hosting capabilities with GPU powered applications are going to be there. >> Just a network connection, right? >> Yeah. So you are going to see that, and frankly even I don't know what some of the Edge computing applications with Wi-Fi 6 will be, but we are seeing more and more of these coming ... DevNet buying tech, yeah. >> Well we did some research, we keep on a part of our SiliconANGLES team, where we prove that it's easier and more cost-effective, rather than moving data around, you move compute to the Edge - >> Edge. >> And then you use the backhaul, 'cause it costs money to send data around the network. It's costly. >> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and the autonomous cars was one great example, right? Like, it's a life-and-death situation when you are letting the car drive itself, right? So, you can't send all the data to the Cloud and say, analyze it for me. There are instantaneous decisions to be made, in milli-micro- nanoseconds, that need to be done on the Edge. So I think autonomous cars are a great example of Edge computing that needs to happen right on the Edge. The learning can then start happening in the Cloud, right? As in when these things get more and more smarter, you send all this data, you correlate all the intelligence there, you send it back to the machines. So you're going to see these kind of Edge computing applications. >> So you're excited by Wi-Fi 6? >> Nah. >> (laughter) >> Wi-Fi 6, so that's an even number, is that to be odd numbers, or lucky, I mean, the naming convention? >> No! >> Is there a - >> We want to be better than 5G. (laughter) So 5G is fifth generation of cellular, >> Okay. >> Wi-Fi 6 is sixth generation of Wi-Fi, right? I mean it's - >> So you're going to trump the 5G with the 6, >> Yeah. >> Kind of get ahead of it. >> Because it is truly the sixth generation of Wi-Fi. >> Okay, that's what it is. >> If we were to go back in time we would call 802.11ac, Wi-Fi 5. Right? It's kind of not that easy to say, but yeah, so Wi-Fi 5 happened like three or four years back, and now it's Wi-Fi sixth gen, so. >> We'll have to do a deep dive in the studio sometime, >> Oh, absolutely. >> on getting into all the spectrum issues, you know, the channels - >> Yeah. >> And the antennas and chains and all that good stuff. >> Yeah. There's a lot to geek out on that. (laughs) >> Yeah, it's going to be fun. >> So you talked about, kind of before we wrap up here, you talked about, you know, everything really kind of being related to, or how this can help companies with brand, and brand is everything to any type of company - >> Yeah. >> We talk at every event we go to about how it's all about customer experience. >> Yeah. >> So my last question for you is, how is Wi-Fi 6 and some of these new technologies that clearly you're excited about, how do you think that's going to change the experience for your internal customers, and from being able to get things out faster, to your external Cisco customers? >> Yeah, when you say internal, our own employees - >> Yes. >> Our R and D? >> Yes, exactly. >> Absolutely. So I think, and one of the examples was shown right here, right, so, and I'm connecting the two answers that you had, like, there's a lot of technology details behind what we do, right, we spend tons of money doing R and D, but we wanted to expose that to our own customers, to our channel partners, and to our developers, right? So, this is something that Wi-Fi 6 brings a lot to our customers. So, all the goodness, the intelligence that we have hidden in our network, now gets exposed, through these APIs, to our developers, and to our own customers. So the internal customers of ours, which are engineers, Cisco IT, are tremendously excited to see what that unveils to us, right? And DevNet provides that platform where you can expose this through APIs, whether it's for security, whether it's for application experience, whether it's for better operations, and have new co-creation of applications that we haven't envisioned, new ways of ecosystem partners coming up and building new applications that we haven't envisioned. So, for our own R and D teams, it's pretty exciting. Because - >> Big catalyst. >> Yeah, just, exactly. You're just providing the platform, it's the catalyst for innovations, and that's what the internet was when we created that, right? We didn't know the internet of 20 years back is going to be the internet of today, and we didn't envision that, but here we are. >> Well the ETI's going to open up your market, because you're going to create an enablement to pass that forward, the opportunities to other developers to come up with the ideas. >> Yeah, absolutely. And that's the whole idea, is to provide them a platform to come up with innovations and ideas, and help share these ideas to other folks, right, because when the minds meld, it gets better and better. >> Build some good apps, make ... get it distributed on Wi-Fi 6, make some money, build a business, create a great app - >> Runs on your feet. It's step by step. >> It's a big inflection point. >> That's a pretty good motto. >> It's an inflection point. >> It is. It is truly, I believe, an inflection point. Mainly because, frankly, Wi-Fi 6 and 5G coming together, truly, because me and you as a user really don't care whether I'm on Wi-Fi or cellular, and we shouldn't, right, all I expect is no matter what I do, where I go, and I use my device, I should get the same consistent seamless experience. >> It works. >> Well I don't have the unlimited plan, so I'd love to have it - >> You would with that. on the Wi-Fi. (laughter) >> So you've got this virtual event next week on the 29th - >> Yeah. >> Is that going to tee up anything, any exciting things we're going to hear at Cisco Live a few weeks later? >> Oh yeah. Big time. Big time. (laughs) >> Any teasers you can give us? >> Without getting fired? Yeah, it's going to be tough. (laughter) No, yeah, I think things that we talked today are what we're going to explain more, and we're going to give more flavor on what Cisco's actually is actually doing from our products perspective, solutions, partnership perspective, to bring it to life, right? So, that's really exciting, so I highly encourage the folks that are watching this to register for this on Cisco.com Go Wired For Wireless event, so it's fun, because we've got a lot of industry experts, customers because that's where rubber meets the road - >> Absolutely. >> And that's where the top good applications, how far along they are, what are they testing, what are they trying out, and then we can geek out on all the technology, right? But it always starts with why, and why does it matter. So ... and that's why I'm excited, yeah. >> It sounds exciting. My cheeks are hurting from smiling. Prashanth, thank you so much ... right? ... for sharing your enthusiasm, your energy and expertise, it's been fun. We look forward to, uh, the virtual event next week, and hearing more about what's going on at Cisco Live. >> Thanks Lisa, thanks John. >> Well, our pleasure. For John Furrier, I'm Lisa Martin, you're watching The Cube live from day two of our coverage, of Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (techno music)

>> Live from Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE! Covering DevNet Create 2019, brought to you by Cisco. >> Hi, welcome to theCUBE's coverage of Cisco DevNet Create 2019, Lisa Martin with John Furrier, we've been here all day, talking about lots of very inspiring, educational, collaborative folks, and we're pleased to welcome to theCUBE Anne Gentle, developer experience manager for Cisco DevNet, Anne, thank you so much for joining us on theCUBE today. >> Thank you so much for having me. >> So this event, everything's like, rockstar start this morning with Susie, Mandy, and the team with the keynotes, standing room only, I know when I was walking out. >> I loved it, yes. >> Yes, there's a lot of bodies in here, it's pretty toasty. >> Yeah. >> The momentum that you guys have created, pun intended. >> Oh, yes. >> No, I can't take credit for that, is really, you can feel it, there's a tremendous amount of collaboration, this is your second create? >> Second create, yeah, so I've been with DevNet itself for about year and a half, and started at Cisco about three years ago this month, but I feel like developer experience is one of my first loves, when I really started to understand how to advocate for the developer experience. So DevNet just does a great job of not only advocating within Cisco, but outside of Cisco as well, so we make sure that their voice is heard, if there's some oddity with an API, which, you know, I'm really into API design, API style, we can kind of look at that first, and kind of look at it sideways and then talk to the teams, okay is there a better way to think about this from a developer standpoint. >> It's great, I love the API love there, it's going around a lot here. DevNet create a cloud native vibe that's kind of integrating and cross-pollinating into DevNet, Cisco proper. You're no stranger to cloud computing early days, and ecosystems that have formed naturally and grown, some morph, some go different directions, so you're involved in OpenStack, we know that, we've talked before about OpenStack, just some great successes as restarts, restarts with OpenStack ultimately settled in what it did, the CNCF, the Cloud Native Computing Foundation, is kind of the cloud native OpenStack model. >> Yeah, yeah. >> You've seen the communities grow, and the market's maturing. >> Definitely, definitely. >> So what's your take on this, because it creates kind of a, the creator builder side of it, we hear builder from Amazon. >> Yeah, I feel like we're able to bring together the standards, one of the interesting things about OpenStack was okay, can we do open standards, that's an interesting idea, right? And so, I think that's partially what we're able to do here, which is share, open up about our experiences, you know, I just went to a talk recently where the SendGrid former advocate is now working more on the SDK side, and he's like, yeah the travel is brutal, and so I just kind of graduated into maintaining seven SDKs. So, that's kind of wandering from where you were originally talking, but it's like, we can share with each other not only our hardships, but also our wins as well, so. >> API marketplaces is not a new concept, Apache was acquired-- >> Yes. >> By a big company, we know that name, Google. But now it's not just application programming interface marketplaces, with containers and server space, and microservices. >> Right. >> The role of APIs growing up on a whole other level is happening. >> Exactly. >> This is where you hear Cisco, and frankly I'm blown away by this, at the Cisco Live, that all the portfolio (mumbles) has APIs. >> True, yes, exactly. >> This is just a whole changeover, so, APIs, I just feel a whole other 2.0 or 3.0 level is coming. >> Absolutely. >> What's your take on this, because-- >> So, yeah, in OpenStack we documented like, two APIs to start, and then suddenly we had 15 APIs to document, right, so, learn quick, get in there and do the work, and I think that that's what's magical about APIs, is, we're learning from our designs in the beginning, we're bringing our users along with us, and then, okay, what's next? So, James Higginbotham, I saw one of his talks today, he's really big in the API education community, and really looking towards what's next, so he's talking about different architectures, and event-driven things that are going to happen, and so even talking about, well what's after APIs, and I think that's where we're going to start to be enabled, even as end users, so, sure, I can consume APIs, I'm pretty good at that now, but what are companies building on top of it, right? So like GitHub is going even further where you can have GitHub actions, and this is what James is talking about, where it's like, well the API enabled it, but then there's these event-driven things that go past that. So I think that's what we're starting to get into, is like, APIs blew up, right? And we're beyond just the create read. >> So, user experience, developer experience, back to what you do, and what Mandy was talking about. You can always make it easier, right? And so, as tools change, there's more tools, there's more workloads, there's more tools, there's more this, more APIs, so there's more of everything coming. >> Yeah. >> It's a tsunami to the developer, what are some of the trends that you see to either abstract away complexities, and, or, standardize or reduce the toolchains? >> Love where you're going with this, so, the thing is, I really feel like in the last, even, since 2010 or so, people are starting to understand that REST APIs are really just HTTP protocol, we can all understand it, there's very simple verbs to memorize. So I'm actually starting to see that the documentation is a huge part of this, like a huge part of the developer experience, because if, for one, there are APIs that are designed enough that you can memorize the entire API, that blows me away when people have memorized an API, but at the same time, if you look at it from like, they come to your documentation every day, they're reading the exact information they can give, they're looking at your examples, of course they're going to start to just have it at their fingertips with muscle memory, so I think that's, you know, we're starting to see more with OpenAPI, which is originally called Swagger, so now the tools are Swagger, and OpenAPI is the specification, and there's just, we can get more done with our documentation if we're able to use tools like that, that start to become industry-wide, with really good tools around them, and so one of the things that I'm really excited about, what we do at DevNet, is that we can, so, we have a documentation tool system, that lets us not only publish the reference information from the OpenAPI, like very boring, JSON, blah blah blah, machines can read it, but then you can publish it in these beautiful ways that are easy to read, easy to follow, and we can also give people tutorials, code examples, like everything's integrated into the docs and the site, and we do it all from GitHub, so I don't know if you guys know that's how we do our site from the back side, it's about 1000 or 2000 GitHub repos, is how we build that documentation. >> Everything's going to GitHub, the network configurations are going to GitHub, it's programmable, it's got to be in GitHub. >> Yes, it's true, and everything's Git-based right? >> So, back to the API question, because I think I'm connecting some dots from some of the conversations we had, we heard from some of the community members, there's a lot of integration touchpoints. Oh, a call center app on their collaboration talks to another database, which talks to another database, so these disparate systems can be connected through APIs, which has been around for a while, whether it's an old school SOAP interface, to, you know, HTTP and REST APIs, to full form, cooler stuff now. But it's also more of a business model opportunity, because the point is, if your API is your connection point-- >> Yes. >> There's potential business deals that could go on, but if you don't have good documentation, it's like not having a good business model. >> Right, and the best documentation really understands a user's task, and so that's why API design is so important, because if you need to make sure that your API looks like someone's daily work, get the wording right, get the actual task right, make sure that whatever workflow you've built into your API can be shown through in any tutorial I can write, right? So yeah, it's really important. >> What's the best practice, where should I go? I want to learn about APIs, so then I'm going to have a couple beers, hockey's over, it's coming back, Sharks are going to the next round, Bruins are going to the next round, I want to dig into APIs tonight. Where do I go, what are some best practices, what should I do? >> Yeah, alright, so we have DevNet learning labs, and I'm telling you because I see the web stats, like, the most popular ones are GitHub, REST API and Python, so you're in good company. Lots of people sitting on their couches, and a lot of them are like 20 minutes at a time, and if you want to do like an entire set that we've kind of curated for you all together, you should go to developer.cisco.com/startnow, and that's basically everything from your one-on-ones, all the way up to, like, really deep dive into products, what they're meant to do, the best use cases. >> Okay, I got to ask you, and I'll put you on the spot, pick your favorite child. Gold standard, what's the best APIs that you like, do you think are the cleanest, tightest? >> Oh, best APIs I like, >> Best documented? >> So in the technical writing world, the gold standard that everyone talks about is the Stripe documentation, so that's in financial tech, and it's very clean, we actually can do something like it with a three column layout-- >> Stripe (mumbles) payment gateway-- >> Stripe is, yeah, the API, and so apparently, from a documentation standpoint, they're just, people just go gaga for their docs, and really try to emulate them, so yeah. And as far as an API I use, so I have a son with type one diabetes, I don't know if I've shared this before, but he has a continuous glucose monitor that's on his arm, and the neat thing is, we can use a REST API to get the data every five minutes on how his blood sugar is doing. So when you're monitoring this, to me that's my favorite right now, because I have it on my watch, I have it on my phone, I know he's safe at school, I know he's safe if he goes anywhere. So it's like, there's so many use cases of APIs, you know? >> He's got the policy-based program, yeah. >> He does, yes, yes. >> Based upon where's he's at, okay, drink some orange juice now, or, you know-- >> Yes, get some juice. >> Get some juice, so, really convenient real-time. >> Yes, definitely, and he, you know, he can see it at school too, and just kind of, not let his friends know too much, but kind of keep an eye on it, you know? >> Automation. >> Yeah, exactly, exactly. >> Sounds like great cloud native, cool. You have a Meraki hub in your house? >> I don't have one at home. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I need to set one up, so yeah, we're terrible net nannies and we monitor everything, so I think I need Meraki at home. (laughing) >> It's a status symbol now-- >> It is now! >> We're hearing in the community. Here in the community of DevNet, you got to have a Meraki hub in your, switch in your house. >> It's true, it's true. >> So if you look back at last year's Create versus, I know we're just through almost day one, what are some of the things that really excite you about where this community of now, what did they say this morning, 585,000 strong? Where this is going, the potential that's just waiting to be unlocked? >> So I'm super excited for our Creator awards, we actually just started that last year, and so it's really neat to see, someone who won a Creator award last year, then give a talk about the kind of things he did in the coming year. And so I think that's what's most exciting about looking a year ahead for the next Create, is like, not only what do the people on stage do, but what do the people sitting next to me in the talks do? Where are they being inspired? What kind of things are they going to invent based on seeing Susie's talk about Wi-Fi 6? I was like, someone invent the thing so that when I go to a hotel, and my kids' devices take all the Wi-Fi first, and then I don't have any, someone do that, you know what I mean, yeah? >> Parental rights. >> So like, because you're on vacation and like, everybody has two devices, well, with a family of four-- [John] - They're streaming Netflix, Amazon Prime-- >> Yeah, yeah! >> Hey, where's my video? >> Like, somebody fix this, right? >> Maybe we'll hear that next year. >> That's what I'm saying, someone invent it, please. >> And thank you so much for joining John and me on theCUBE this afternoon, and bringing your wisdom and your energy and enthusiasm, we appreciate your time. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> For John Furrier, I am Lisa Martin, you're watching theCUBE live from Cisco DevNet Create 2019. Thanks for watching. (upbeat music)

>> live from Mountain View, California It's the queue covering definite create twenty nineteen. Brought to You by Cisco >> Hi, Lisa Martin With the Cube. We're live at the Computer History Museum for Cisco. Definite Create twenty nineteen John for years my co host, and we're pleased to welcome back to the Cube. Mandy Whaley, senior director of developer experience for Definite Mandy. This event is bursting at the seams. This is the third definite create, but you've been involved for the last five years or so from the beginning, when this was really groundswell talk. Before we're going to talk about a history of Devon, tell our audience what definite is. What definite create is as well, >> Absolutely definite is Cisco's developer community so anywhere that Cisco has a P iis rst case anywhere that people can build on top of our platforms. Definite is the community that enables those developers. So we do. You know a lot of connecting of people within the community way also do a lot of developer enablement Sample code Documentation Blog's Learning Resource is in person workshops, online workshops. I lead our developer experienced team, which is our developer advocates who are you know being the voice of developer, helping the developers get inspired in buildings also are definite. Sandbox teams hosted labs. If you want to use some networking FBI's you may not have extra network playing around that you can program against an experiment. So we offer reserved hosted labs that anyone can use free by becoming a definite remember and then the other part is our our developer content and support. So really getting the information out there and supporting the developers so definite is our community that enables everyone to build on top of Cisco. >> And this community is now sorry, John. We're both very excited, Assistant Suzy was announcing this morning over five hundred eighty five thousand members strong and the energy and the excitement in the room this morning with the Kino people are jumping at the bid. When you guys talked about WiFi six, I loved the examples that you gave this community is it is engaged. That is one of >> the things that's really exciting. Teo, about working with the definite community is that I feel like the energy that we put in, we get back multiple fold from the community, right, and it's great to see people who started with us maybe five years ago who have, you know, made their first AP I call started down this path, and now they're building full applications and they're here sharing that information by presenting with the community and giving back and that excitement that engagement is really one of the funnest parts of my job. >> Man, you talk about the evolution of definite create definite, pretty good background on that. Tell the story. I know I've been there with you guys since the beginning of the Cube. I know little about, but I want you to tell the story because it was a genesis that came out of what you guys we're seeing in the definite community where Cloud was really becoming part of it. Tell the where the definite created portion came on. And what it means for the definite community and developers at large. >> Yes, absolutely. So I started working with Emmet before Devon. It had a name so before it was actually definite. That was five years ago and way started building the community. We have a developer event within Sisqo live. So we have the definite zone, and it's we offer a lot of our constant and classes and workshops. Their way started getting requests from that audience, saying WAY would like a smaller events with more ability, tohave, you know, deeper conversations more, one on one and just focused on the developer community. And this was when multi Cloud was really starting to become a big piece of the Cisco strategy. Are developers were trying to figure out howto work in that space. Cloud native was taking King off, and that was the first definite create on, which was three years ago. It was a very small venue in San Francisco, and it was our very closest and, you know, deepest engage set of members that came to that first year and then. But we had such great engagement. Some of that energy that you mentioned and everyone who helped build it towards the second year, which we had last year at the Computer History Museum, says same same than you. And what special, definite create. As we really try to get the two parts of our definite community together, the application developers and our infrastructure automation Dev ops teams right, and we try to bring them together. This one event where they can really exchange ideas, you know, get to be talking the same language. This morning we had conversations around WiFi six from the application Developer side Like what does that enable for the application developers and new things you could build? And then, you know, how is that also interesting? Teo, the networking site >> of any demos, are a big part of it. You got the hack a thon camp. Get the camp experience. You can create great tools, but the the events, not your classic event. It's not like that's Get the numbers up. Let's get tennis. Let's make some money. It's not about that vibe. This is a different vibe. It's more of let's make it intimate, somewhat structured, but disorganized enough to be collaborative. >> Yes, it's definitely collaborative, and it's definitely a community focused event over. I think over seventy five percent of the content this year came from the community, so they're here giving back and presenting their workshops. It's also very hands on. Hands on is actually kind of a core definite value. We, like Teo, always give people the ability Teo code something. Try something, build something So you mentioned can't create that is our it's >> it's We call it a build a thon because it's a little more structure >> than a free form hackathon. We start with some use cases. We make the technology available, and they actually started yesterday before the conference even began. Those teams started building solutions, and they'LL be presenting them on Thursday and then >> in the >> conference. We have hands on workshops in small groups with eight people, so you can really, you know, take the time to actually get in, run the code, do the work, ask questions right to the presenter on. And we really want that collaborative. You know, sharing ideas feels very intentional part of building this conference. >> So I'd love to ask you some probing questions around the future of where you see this going because you have the key ingredients are coming together. You mentioned them, so scaling this up it's going to be a challenge because you have definite. You have Definite Zone and Sisqo live, which is the Cisco proper. Then you kind of have this elite community as my words. I guess it's, you know, the best of the best, but it's really a cross section of unique profile of persona is the intention to have these guys then go back to their communities are within the communities. Is that the scale point? Because how do you run these intimate events right and not lose the spirit of the ethos. >> So that's something we're, you know, putting specific thought into because we do want to keep the spirit. We've actually heard that from some of our, you know, kind of core community members that they really want to keep that aspect. So couple of things that we are planning tto help with that one is you may have seen this morning we gave the definite Creator awards. So those air awards for people who contribute to the community and a lot of those are people who have come and learn skills, taken aback to their organizations and been able to scale that out to their organizations. That's something that we're really actively working with people to do and do that in a very organic and community lead way. Um, the other thing that we have been working with is a program called Definite Express. So this is actually where we take a small part of our definite content. We kind of package it up and make it available for anyone to run in their region. Jin so they can have it. You know, in a different country they can have some of the same feeling that we have here some of these same workshops we've had those in. It was about two hundred fifty of those events in forty nine countries. >> So wait, man kind of thing. Yes, it's a physical events. It's not just sass on site services. >> That's right. >> Portable portal >> event and they do workshops just like they are here way. Inject some of the fun, same fun kind of activities. And then we provide all the infrastructure. There are sandbox, >> you hologram in there. I mean, you're so popular you can't attend all of them. >> No, I cannot. >> But I love >> to see on Twitter you can look up definite express and see one's happening, you know, all over the world at the same time, which is really fun. >> And how did those folks that are doing these definite expressed events How are they able to collaborate with you guys provide feedback from what they're experiencing in the field to help create Maur no pun intended helped create more. Definitely more, exactly more opportunities, you know, and really help you guys with this larger event so that they feel like they were in this community. And five hundred eighty five thousand. There's only about four hundred here that can fit in Russian. What's that somebody else? It's like So one of the things >> we do is while we're here at definite create, we do live stream a lot of the content. So it was really fun today. When we finished the keynote, I heard from some people that told me I was in the keynote. I was watching and I started texting my friends. Hey, you got to get on the live stream And that's a great thing to hear from the community because you're giving away for this people to join in. We also have on definite our community chat room. It's on every page, chat with us definite. It gets you right into a room with the developer advocates on our team and other community members, and we see the community there, you know, answering each other's questions, giving us feedback, letting us know what they need to move ahead in their careers and their projects. So that community chat room is really key. >> Give some highlights on what change since just go live Barcelona. What? Some of the important notable successes and work areas that you guys are doing a definite and definite create. >> Right. So we, as we mentioned in the Kino, our community growth, we've reached five hundred eighty five thousand. So that registered Dove nut members, that is, it's great to see that growing. And then we also see those members you know, growing their engagement with them, not going deeper into the material, building, more content, taking it back to their organizations and things like that. Right now we are building up to Cisco Live Us, which is coming up in San Diego in June, will have our full definite zone there. So a lot of exciting activities that were planning for their We hope everybody can come and see us there, and then another thing is, could exchange. So could exchange. We actually announced it a definite create last year and launched it a little bit after definite create code exchanges the place for the community to share their projects so they can anything that is open source. They can share it by sending us there. Have link way curate that end Tio Francisco relevant sort of catalog. If you're looking for a sample to use DNA center and you want to see it in Python, you Khun, go search for exactly that. Get back some projects that the community have submitted. So we're excited to announce this week that we've reached over four hundred projects in code exchange of those curated, you know, projects that have gone to the process and been posted there. That was a really exciting milestone, looking back to create from LA >> So it's working. Yeah. So what's the vibe in? Certainly Cisco. I know Suzy has and Team have been kind of getting a lot of press and praise press externally, praise internally it Cisco, as the big battleship of Cisco, kind of gets on that cloud wave coming multi cloud hot area. >> It is so one of the things that is really exciting as we are seeing a p, I be available across our whole portfolio. So in every area that Cisco has products and up and down the stack at the device layer at the controller layer at the cloud layer. So that's very exciting from a definite perspective, because it gives us more for our community to work with more opportunity for developers. And that changes Ciscos very palpable. It's very exciting. And we're, you know, bringing the definite community into that as much as >> it's from creativity to we saw the demo for a fish about the virtual realities cable first peek in Barcelona. But here, amplifying that with with five six to you could just with virtual reality look at a devices. They see all the staff see with network coverage. Yeah, WeII to do work. >> Yeah, exactly. And >> me, that demo is a great you know, example of this applications meaning infrastructure message, which is really what definite create is about. We wrote an augmented reality application running on a mobile device, but you can check literally seeing the signal strength from all your access points on. So that's just a great example of those two things coming together. >> Speaking of coming together, one of the things that you touched on this a minute ago. But what in the keynote this morning, when I was looking at in the Mirror Rocky demo of the other things that you guys were doing and the evolution of Cisco. I just thought, What CART horse which ones, which was It has definite been really kind of fueling Cisco's evolution. Looking at all of the available, as you mentioned across the product portfolio has been around a long time. Is it is it fair to say that definite has kind of been a fuel for that? And Cisco's going Wow, we've got this phenomenal community were evolving because our customers are we need Teo. Yeah, I think it is. It is very much >> hand in hand. We worked really closely with our product teams and we worked hard to be that voice of the developer with our product teams and Cisco. And it's been a journey that started, you know, five years ago where we knew that the guys were going to come, we knew that there would be a prize across the portfolio and within definite. We really believed in that and are definite community believed in it. And you know, we've been building it very step wise and very intentionally since then. So it's really been a great partnership and a really exciting time to be it Cisco and being a part of that transition. >> Well, I just signed up to chat with you guys since you brought it up earlier. Developer dot cisco dot com That little chat with us on every page signing I signed with my get hub handles >> you can log in with. You're having >> your chair stealing the code and check it into the >> codex scene. >> We're gonna blow something for one. So many exciting has been great to watch. You guys, you got the Moroccan green jacket off. >> It's very Rocky demo today. >> Meraki has been a big part of definite success, and within the community's been the reaction's been very positive. It's not in the classic portfolio of collaboration. It's really going to a different What is muraki mean for the development? What? What has it done? What has enabled Why is it important? >> Yeah, so, um, a Rocky has been great because it's one. As Todd mentioned today, they really have this mission of simplifying their experience, and they've done that in there. You I and they've brought that to their developer experience as well, which is really exciting for me. Rocky is Cloud Managed Network Club managed WiFi, and then they have a very happy I'd driven approach where you can automate almost everything you could do through the eyes. And then there's additional services that you could get from Iraqi, like indoor location data and things like that. So it really opens up opportunities for both of our parts of our definite audience application developers who might be writing an indoor location based application or doing something with the cameras that we saw today on DH, then the infrastructure automation side who can very, very efficiently, you know, manage and deploy their networks. >> It's nice connective tissue for the developers kind of gives you best table two worlds, wireless on the front end, back and network connections. So it really becomes a big part than seems like >> it is. It is. And that's another reason why we were so excited about the new MURAKI developer hub that Todd adults today on Definite because it really is a place where we can show that connective aspect of it. I have all the code and use cases that really connects this to audience. >> We'LL talk will be very excited to know that some of your community members actually have Iraqi devices at their house. They way, they're running their cameras at their homes and everything's >> that's right. >> So being I think it's on the Web, one of the, if not the on ly conference community that brings together the APP developers, those girls and guys thie infrastructure, folks, What's one of your favorite stories that really shows thes two worlds coming together, understanding each other, communicating anything that really sticks out of the last few years for you? Gosh, there's >> many and a lot of them are just hallway conversations that I might stop by and hear people connecting and kind of learning about. You know what each person works on and learning to kind of speak the same language and get together. One story that I think really stands out as a big success is around a partner that we work with who does indoor location applications. And there's pure software company right. They write mobile applications that do indoor location, and but they they need a network underneath that, and so we have had a great coming together of some of our main Cisco loyal people who go out and stall the network's connecting with partners like that who come from the pier software side. We've written applications on DSO. That's that's a great one. And that is really something that we see replicating in many places. And I feel like some of the hallway conversations here are, you know, starting the next stories that happened like that. >> This is one of some of the best cause they're natural. Organic conversations are not scripted. It's not reading slides. Well, I wish we had more time, but we'll have to see you back at dusk alive. All right? What about six weeks or so? Yes, it's coming out coming, kid. And Oh, Mandy, congratulations on this success bursting at the seams. And we appreciate you taking some time to talk with John and me today. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Our pleasure for John, for your I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching the Cube live from Cisco. Definite. Create twenty nineteen. Thanks for watching. >> Yeah,

live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California it's the queue covering Devon that create 2018 brought to you by Cisco okay welcome back everyone we're live here in Silicon Valley in Mountain View California it's keeps coverage dev net create here I'm John Firth mykos Lauren Cooney and next is Louie Louis froyo Technical Evangelist an IBM good to see you again thank you for having me Lauren ketchup IBM love to think shirt welcome back thank you thank you it's great here so what's going on for you here I am partnering with Cisco what's let's get what's going on well here are we're here to help you know sort of promote the idea around IOT analytics at the edge right with the idea of demonstrating a lot of the IBM products you know I did a workshop today and you know a lot of hands-on mechanical stuff but also leveraging some of the IOT technology offered by IBM so IBM cloud cloud analytics mainly is what you're doing that's right we've chat in the past going back big day two days Anup days when it was you know fashionable now it's kind of have a that's more data leaks nothing let's do the central part of the conversation ai is obviously Mark Zuckerberg and presenting in front of or testifying in front of the Senate's right it's all around AI in analytics Asli dated the data rules change but year conversation with Cisco is IOT yeah because a lot of the network stuff edge of the network these are paradigms that our network inherently perfect for Cisco that's right IBM does a lot of IOT job do a lot a blockchain work as well yeah this is all serving enterprise so what's the big theme real relevant theme for enterprises when it comes to things like how do I use flop chain or how do I use IOT how do I incorporate that tech into my enterprise well I think the first the first barrier is to just understand the technology and the limitations of that technology so you mentioned blockchain you know I'm out quite a bit in the field talking to people talking to partners IBM partners customers customers and there's this confusion around what's a blockchain is what blockchain is all about and the same with big data back in the day you mentioned you know we met up with some conferences back then I think they need to understand what the technologies do what they serve what purposes they serve so blockchain is fairly new right there's a lot of confusion there was the same with big data back and a very confusing IOT you know when we go out as a Technical Evangelist my team we go out and we talk to people there's an appetite to learn more to understand what this IOT thing is and how can they use it how did how can it help us make more money what are they drilling down on our where or better yet what are you evangelizing in what's what are they receptive to what's what's working for them what are they resonates with the customers or potential customers that you guys talk to first and foremost the fact that you know when we go out we have live sessions and we train we give them hands-on right out of the gate within you know 20 minutes they have a bot checkoff built within an hour we build a blockchain right with it with and they do it they see it they experience it and that excites them and then along the way we also we try to educate them on you know why this is important this is how it can be used you know IOT is you know this confusion around that - you know how can i leverage this but I've also talked to customers where they're doing some cool stuff with the edge and I think that leads to my next question actually was which is what use cases do you see what our customers talking about you know I think if you have people building block chains and things along those lines that's great but what are they going to apply it - yeah so there's a perfect example working with a customer and they they're businesses around drones you know UAVs to go out and look for anomalies on pipelines oil pipelines so they have a great technology a drone you know we can go 100 kilometers an hour they can go 100 kilometers in distance but what they need they really need to be able to look for things that shouldn't be there so computer vision you know machine learning deep learning and so we're working with them now to help them get the technology just right to live on the drone to be able to do image recognition highly with high accuracy in real-time so the machine learning in the IOT working out on the edge so is that Watson machine learning no no because it has to happen no we could do or watching today right the problem is you have to have that long-haul communication with the cloud now this needs to happen on the drone in real time okay so we're working with them to figure out you know how we can achieve that and there's some things coming out of IBM and in their future that'll make that a bit easier great and I think that that's an exciting awesome use case to be able to do computer vision on the fly and you know using these neural networks to make decisions I mean the drone example is real life and it's one of those things where we've seen many presentations and examples one of them I loves kind of I'm a wireless geek but I love the towers and I like to see how those they send your owns up there to look at the equipment and then look for repair so it's all automated it's all perfectly executed in the airspace if you will not name space but it goes in there you know power lines you know drones are being used to clear that's right debris and power line all kinds of use cases I think Accenture once told us there was a use case where on car accidents are scenes where they got to take the road and Thrones come in to a full representation and visual and reduces the that's right it's a time to survey the scene along you know one that's read you think about the wind farms these huge wind farms and they have to do inspections use some of these fields you see they're just 500 you know turbines out there and so you need to get out there and the drones are perfect they can look at the blades and you know because they have the high-speed cameras and those blades return and they can still look for defects and fractures and in predict you know using analytics again out there you know predictive maintenance to say hey you know there's something going on here you help us with the cube join me we did cube drone to go out and cover all of our events for us absolutely I'd love to work interviews I'd love to work with you guys that would be null series now just kidding aside is there a profile that you see with customers that resonates well in terms of why are some people more successful now on the cutting edge thing is they got the foresight they got the budget at IT what what's the perfect configuration what makes the customers or a tune to knocking down these low hanging fruit scenarios so I'm gonna say something that's obvious and I'm sure you see it all the time but it's just the risk risk-averse you know you need to put yourself out there you need to be you know a next-gen thinker and that's how we you know within my team when we think about going out and finding these next-gen partners you know born in the cloud you know they're thinking they're thinking beyond what's the from you so the people that are doing these this cool work there either you know a really hardcore tech you know like the drone example or these young entrepreneurs who really don't have much to lose and they have these great ideas you know certainly around blockchain I've heard some some cool ideas around blockchain what people want to do with it and so they you know they're small they're agile they have a vision and they'll take the chance you know the theme here that's interesting and Laura and I were talking about earlier is that the co-creation model is really where the ideas are going to come from so the old model was you pixton technology selection and you put it to work and you that should appreciate or amortize it over whatever period financially to pay back period all that nonsense now to a world where all the ideas are coming from the teams themselves yeah so the the suppliers the vendors don't pitch here's our IOT solution place our IOT fabric is invest Indies are the new approaches the new posture for vendors where these developers who are creating all the action yeah it certainly you know you see that look yeah yeah yeah that's how just you know the workshop we did here today you know if someone wants to kick the tires and wants to learn you know you're not gonna go to proprietary vendor equipments like the big data back in the day you know everyone started with the dupe that was the center of it right open so yeah and it's the same here so there's a lot of Technology open source free technology for people to go out and do prototypes and figure out what they need to do and that's what we're seeing people you know certainly when we go out and do our live events with IBM hands on immediately you know you're doing IOT solutions right so you can take it away and you can go back and then now you can apply it and build on it so you know it's going back to just education and people understanding what these technologies are how to use them and and how to get started you know the proverbial HelloWorld program is there a big event coming up for IBM you got you're gonna be going towards or what's your schedule look like you're on the road a lot what are the big things you got going on well we just had think out in Vegas are you guys were there I was there and we had IBM index not too long before that so that's sort of like the developer event like this for us on a team Aman we have schedules throughout the year to go through various cities there are 15 of us all around the country you know hosting meetups and you know initiating meetups getting partner events co-hosting with developers or cxos or oh so we we target the development team and we target the you know the decision maker around making purchases right so they need to be a part of that story you know we can easily win over the developers with our technology the hard part is winning over the people that signed the check so yeah it's exciting buddy thanks for stopping by great to see you yeah thank you very much your job analytics the heart of the IOT Louis froley Oh Technical Evangelist at IBM you know in the days where all the action is obviously the date as the center you got AI blockchain that's IBM's vision love does love the new love the new messaging from IBM right money we have two definite create here in Silicon Valley more live coverage after this short break

live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California it's the cube covering Devon that create 2018 brought to you by Cisco hey welcome back everyone live here at dev net create Cisco's event here at this Museum in Mountain View California art a Silicon Valley I'm here with Laura Cooney we here for two days wall-to-wall coverage breaking down Cisco's move into the DevOps Wow developer world separate from the dev net community which is the Cisco Developer Program and we've been breaking down Lauren great to have you this past two days so we talked to a lot of the Cisco folks a lot of the practitioners let's analyze it let's discuss kind of what's going on first of all Cisco creates a new group almost a year ago next month called dev net create to get out of the Cisco bubble and go out into the cloud world and see if they can't connect the cloud ecosystem cloud native kubernetes all the micro services goodness is going on the application side on infrastructures code and bring that with the Cisco network engineering community who are plumbers network plumbers their network engineers they deal with provisioning gear routes well I think it's interesting because you have this CCIE number that has been decreasing over the past couple of years and that's that's not because the network is less important it's actually because new skill sets are emerging and folks need to take on these new skills to learn and to really flourish in their careers so I think what definite is doing is just tremendous in terms of enabling developers to move up stack to look at things like kubernetes to look at things like you know cloud native to look at new applications you can build new things that you can extend to API integration into you know new types of applications you know we had folks here that we're learning to code in Python for the first time and I think that's awesome I think that's great and the timing is perfect I mean I got to give credit to Susie we and her team at Cisco they have they doing they're doing all the right things I think the way they're handling this is they're not overly aggressive they're not arrogant they're humble they're learning they're listening and they're doing all the right things are bringing a lot to the table from the Cisco table to this community and they've got you know this is very cool but the timing is critical if they tried to do this four years ago how hard would have it been you know you've been there okay I mean they pull this off four years ago I think there was the the goal was always there four years ago but I think the timing was you know you you have to kind of put the the mission in order and get things up and running first you can't just you don't launch a community you build one and I think we you know Cisco really needed to build that core community first and that was that was super credit but even four years ago let's just go back and rewind the clock we was cloud then so it was still the purest DevOps culture it was certainly hard-charging was definitely flying but still even like a lot of the on-premise enterprise folks we're like still kind of poopoo in the cloud you even saw it four years ago Oracle just made their move a couple years ago to the cloud and they're still trying to catch up so you know these legacy vendors and Cisco is one they've pivoted nicely Cisco into this because now the timings there as kubernetes there's enough code to get glued in plugged in with the stack so I think timing has also been a tailwind timing was critical I mean back then we were talking about software-defined networking and you know new services that you could deliver to the cloud and new ways and then DevOps came in is like really the glory child right saying like this DevOps was gonna solve world hunger and and what she came what it came down to basically is you know it is a critical part but there are certain piece parts that needed to come together especially in the open source world to make these things happen I mean to me if I had to like point out I'm just riffing here but you know to me the seminal moment for a cloud and you know agile was happening that's a key driver but it was the fact that was horizontally scalable tech unstructured data the roles of databases software that was becoming this new lightweight glue layer control planes or moving up and down the stack so there wasn't one thing combination of these awesome things were happening that made people go whoa holy-holy we could do more if we think about scale differently skill differently and really how do you bring this you know and this is where you get to edge computing it's how do you actually bring these to the masses how do you go where the people are how do you store data where people are how do you extend security in new ways I mean that's that's gonna be super critical I think the other thing that's also pretty evident is that when you start having new entrants into a market start eating some of your breakfasts then they start eating some of your lunch then you go wait a minute if I don't do something my dinner is gonna be eaten I mean you starting to see people see their business at risk yeah this is a huge thing that that lights up to see XO the CEO the CEO o CDO CIO now it's like okay we got to make a move definitely I think that's that's the way that it has to be and in terms of Cisco I want to get your thoughts because I've always been talking about this and I'm a big Cisco fan I know a lot of people who work there been a big admirer of the company from day one and what they did in the internet generation they did bought a lot of cubbies which create a little bit of a mash mash but that's nothing I issue they really ran the networks what a great culture however we're now seeing applications driving a lot of value and the network needs to be programmable and the challenge that cisco has always been how do we will if the stack as a company and all the little scuttle butts and conversations and parties have been to hallway conversations francisco executives employees is that's been the internal debate how does cisco should cisco move up the stack and if so how so it's been kind of this internal thing good timing now to start moving up the stack because the automations here I think it was great timing four years ago to move up the stack to be honest I think that there were efforts then I know that I was engaged in some to do that rather quickly you know those turned into things that you know went one way or the other I think that there are the right people in the right places at Cisco now to make that actually happen I think you know we're a little early on that I think Suzy Zephyr is just tremendous in terms of driving the users up stack to have them learn these new skills and as they learn these new skills they're learning it on Cisco and that's gonna be really critical that's gonna have the pull power yeah I think this is got a chance a real great chance to and it's not a far reaching of a accomplishment either for them to do this is they can now actually build a developer program now because before they didn't have enough software but what Suzy's doing if I'm Chuck Roberts CEO of Cisco I'm doubling down and what's going on with definite definite create and I can take that def net component and almost kind of expand it out because Cisco has a developer option you look at what they're doing on the collaborative software side the stuff with video they have a total core confidence in video I mean they were early on so many things but now with I got WebEx they're still and so for video conferencing but still beyond that IOT is a video application well huge opportunity in these these communities that pop up and right now you don't have a product if you don't have a supporting community and so salutely be doubling down on this they need to double down on that they probably need to invest more in it than they are now I see it as absolutely critical as they move forward because you know Cisco wants to be one or two in the market for all their products all their solutions to have that they need to have the supporting community dude yeah we did two days here and you know and in terms of events it's not the big glam event it's really a early stage the only the second event within the it hasn't even been 12 months since the first dev net create what I'm impressed by what I love about the cube is we when you get at these early moments when you see it magic happening you get into the communities and you realize wow this is a team that could pull it off and I think Cisco's a company at Cisco live in Barcelona you know it really became apparent to me that Cisco's really pulling in the right direction on a couple things I feel that the big company thing that gotta kind of clean that up a bit just make it more nimble but they got their eye on the prize on video they could really crush the IOT opportunity and the leverage of the network is a huge asset and if they could make that programmable with an open source community behind it man this could be a whole nother Cisco almost bring back that look at the glory days I fully agree Lauren what are you up to these days I mean you got a new gig I do care about your new company and what you're working on you guys write in code you do Advisory do consulting actually stuff I mean you know I like my hands and lots of things so I think it's important to say that you know I've taken my experience at IBM and Microsoft and juniper and Cisco driving new innovation to market faster and new revenue channels and I've taken that and I've started a consulting firm called spark labs and what we do is we use new models like Minimum Viable Product and business model canvas to actually drive you know whether it's product whether it's service whether it's these you know new channels whether it's partner or whether you're just trying to kind of pull together your team in a new way we actually take this and and help you do it in a faster way and you know we've got the models we've got the background and you know we're working with companies that are big and small what kind of engagement you working on what kind of problems you saw so you know we have a larger company that we're working with and one of the things that they ran into is they had just changed around kind of their leadership and we've gone in and worked with their leadership team to kind of establish what this new team needs to look like what are they going to deliver on what are the metrics what are the you know kind of success things that that people are really trying to achieve and how do we empower this new team that has this new leader and you know how do we make sure that everyone's aligned I think that's part of it and the line that's critical alignment is you know you don't if you don't it's it's great to have an amazing vision but if you don't have the execution you're just not going to get there yeah Andy Jesse one of my favorite execs that I've interviewed he's pragmatic he's strong went to Harvard Law hold it against him but great super great guy but he's got a great philosophy I think I come from the Amazon culture is you argue all day long but once a decisions made you align behind it yeah so bring some constructive discourse to the table yep but once it's done they don't tolerate any you know yeah a dysfunctional aggressed passive-aggressive behavior okay say and if say your piece fuck a lot that's exactly it I mean we pull people together for a day or a day and a half and actually run them through the business model canvas which will align with like what their goals are what their mission is how their how their you know being seen in the market and lots of other things but the real goal there is to pull the team together on on you know what exactly those things are and the value that their organization has because if you can't deliver on that message you can't deliver on much more so you do need that alignment and teams are so all over the place often when you're running fast you kind of forget and so sometimes they need to be reminded what's your take on dev net create this year what's your thoughts I think it's great I mean I love the fact that you know there's folks from so many different backgrounds and so many different you know kind of technical areas here I love you know muraki's giving away 1.2 million dollars of equipment and software licenses I think that's phenomenal I'm impressed by a Cisco folks here not too overly overboard and and give them too many compliments because you know they'll get cocky no but still serious dis Cisco people that are here are kicking ass they're doing a great job they're got the microphones on they're doing the demos they're doing a lot they are jazz and they're they're not mailing it in either doing a great job and I think that's that's authentic genuine I think that's going to be a great you know seed in the in the community to grow that up again still they got a lot of work to do but I don't think it's too far of a bridge for Network guys to be cloud guys and to kind of find some middle ground so I think it's the timings perfect I think I'm super impressed with the team and I think this is a great path a Cisco to double down on and and really invest more in because it's definitely got legs and a big fan of the camp thing too we talked about the camp create where they had competitive teams hacking and spending two days on so you know love it love the culture but again early let's see where they go with it I mean if they can get the network ops go on there's DevOps for networks concepts yeah and bring it up and make it programmable couldn't ask for a better time with kubernetes all the coolness going on that microservices good time definitely a great time well great to host with you and we're here live at dev net create wrapping up two days of wall-to-wall coverage of the cube dev net create again this is the cloud ecosystem for cisco separate from the cool or dev net which is the Cisco developer program for all of Cisco a great opportunity for them of course the cubes here covering it we're gonna wrap this up and thanks for watching cube coverage here in the Computer History Museum in Mountain View California thanks for watching

>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE, covering DevNet Create 2018. Brought to you by Cisco. (jingle) >> Hi, welcome back to theCUBE. My name is Lauren Cooney, and I'm here today with Matt Johnson who is a technologist at Cisco, with Cisco DevNet. Hi Matt. >> Hi, how's it going? Good to see you again. >> Pretty good. Good to see you again too. So what's going on here? What's going on with the show and what are you working on? >> Oh, sure. So the show in general is just this ability for us, you know, Cisco DevNet have always had quite a large and a growing presence at Cisco Live, kind of Cisco's, Europe and US yearly conferences. But this is the second year we've done Create, and it's really an opportunity to kind of take the real developer angle, the makers, the API integrators, kind of the real, kind of developer ecosystem that's going around Cisco's products and our APIs, and just kind of focus on that audience. So, you know, all the content here is developer for developer. And so it's just really nice to be able to experiment in a bit more of an open format. >> Yeah, exactly. So it's kind of that DIY environment of developers that are coming in and really doing all this stuff and starting to innovate on their own. >> Yeah, absolutely. And what I'm really excited about here we have the, we had kind of a two-day hackathon running at the same time as the event, and so, instead of that just being a little bit of time spent between sessions, these are teams that have already kind of been working behind the scenes on the run-up to the event, so they've already kind of met each other virtually through collaboration, they've already worked out what kind of problem space they want to solve, they've already started working on kind of sample and PLC code, so the idea that at the end of a two-day conference we could actually see some working solutions to real problems that our partners and our customer ecosystem is seeing, I think that's quite-- >> That's great. >> An exciting idea. >> Yeah, Mandy Whalen was just on with us. >> Oh, fantastic. >> And she actually talked a little bit about that, and you know, so these guys will be up for 24 hours hacking on stuff. Hopefully we'll see some great solutions come the end and you know, we'll talk about it here on theCUBE. >> Yeah. >> So tell me about what you're doing today at Cisco DevNet. >> Sure, so from one style of hacking to another, we are actually running this demo called the Black Hat White Hat Challenge. And I went to, I've always been a bit of a kind of hobbyist pentester. >> Lauren: Never, no. >> I liked breaking things from a young age. And I got to attend my first Defcon in Las Vegas last year, and coming from an evangelism background, coming from kind of doing workshops and talks and demos, I was absolutely amazed at the interactivity of pretty much everything that goes on at the black hat hacking conference, sorry the Defcon hacking conference. My apologies. They have, you know, hands-on IoT villages where you can go and try hacking against all the hardware, there is kind of labs and tutorials for people that are maybe just getting into kind of that side of hacking and penetration testing. So I kind of brought that back and I've always had a passion for security, and IoT nowadays, we are in a situation where a lot of these devices we are starting to bring into our homes and our businesses and things, are built to a budget. They are built cheap, they're not security devices. People aren't thinking of security, they're thinking of functionality when they're building those, so someone that makes fridge freezers isn't going to be thinking about the 10 year security roadmap for that fridge freezer. They're going to be thinking about selling the latest smart freezer. >> Lauren: Exactly. >> And so I wanted to kind of bring some of that hands-on Defcon-style hacking into a real-world scenario. So at security conferences and at developer conferences, we always talk about things being insecure, and we talk about needing to think about security. But what we have is a booth here where we actually take off-the-shelf IoT devices, and in a curated path we are getting attendees with no background in kind of pen testing to use real-world hacking tools and real exploits against those devices, to build their access into that network and eventually get to the goal, which is getting into an electrical safe with like a price inside. And all of that is real off-the-shelf IoT. It's real security. And the aim of that is to kind of-- >> So they are actually cracking the safe. >> They are cracking the safe, they are cracking into Wi-Fi. They're getting onto the guest Wi-Fi and then finding a vulnerability in the router which gets them onto the wired network, so that'd be like a guest network in a corporate environment or a guest network in a hotel, getting you onto the hotel's infrastructure network and then to a camera. >> So this is like straight up hacker one. >> Straight up, yeah, exactly, right? Which is perfect. >> Lauren: This is great. >> Yeah, exactly. So that's what we're doing and the idea is to just to kind of stop talking about it and start showing. This is not stuff you need to be super good at. This is stuff you can Google. The tools are out there, the tools are getting more and more easy to use. And also vulnerabilities are becoming more and more common because of the growth of IoT. There were double the number of CVE, like known vulnerabilities in the wild in 2017 than there were in 2016. >> Okay. >> And that's because of this constant pace of new devices. So we're kind of showing that these are really crackable by anyone with a bit of time and research. And then also showing kind of what can be done about that. And, you know, even without kind of the proactive and firewalls and things like that, just getting a developer audience thinking about this stuff, getting them, you know, fresh in their mind, you know, these are the kind of places we should be focusing on IoT security because it's these developers that will be writing code and those products today-- >> I think that's great. And I think security is so important today with everything going on, and then there's Facebook and testimonies that are happening today, and you know, lots of different things. Now, what are you using to actually kind of fill these holes, fill these kind of security vulnerabilities that you're using with these off-the-shelf IoT devices? >> Sure, so what we are showing is how kind of, if you know if you have these devices on your network, obviously layering things like Cisco's net-gen firewalls in line with those devices, has signatures that will detect. It's not going to patch the device itself, 'cause that might be from another vendor or an IoT camera or a light switch or something, but it's going to detect the malicious traffic trying to attack that device and drop it. So you're kind of protecting your perimeter, you're stopping a vulnerable device becoming an actual hack. Alternatively from a personal perspective, as we start looking at how we consume hardware in our homes and businesses, I actually really like kind of the Meraki model and the Nest Cam model, and you know, all the other camera vendors which charge you with subscription, 'cause if you buy hardware one-off, you have no idea whether that price for that hardware allotted budget for the development team to keep thinking about security or whether that team doesn't exist anymore and they're off building their next product. >> Lauren: Yup. >> Whereas if you're buying something on kind of a subscription basis, even though the hardware is in your home, you know that their profit is based on them keeping your product up-to-date. >> Lauren: Definitely. >> So you expect, you know, real-time updates, you expect timely security updates. And so I think that kind of a software as a service style delivery of on-prem hardware is definitely a more secure approach. >> Yeah, and the Meraki model is definitely moving forward as one of the prevalent models that we, you know, Cisco has. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> And it's, you know, that plug and play, easy-to-use, get it up and running, et cetera. >> Exactly, and then on the back of that you know that there's people working on those security things, which isn't something that you think about when you buy it for its APIs and its plug-and-play in its ease-of-use, but just knowing that that is there and, you know, you're paying for that development, is a good thing. >> Where do you see most of these vulnerabilities, and I know you have a lot of background in cloud computing and you know, in these arenas, but where do you see most of these vulnerabilities? >> Matt: So-- >> It's a big question. >> Yeah. I mean a lot of the, hackers are going to wherever, you know, is easiest for the amount of time and effort. Certainly when we see kind of malicious actors kind of looking for a large footprints, large, building botnets et cetera. There could be a very, very clever attack that requires a lot of time and effort, or there could be an IoT device that you know there's going to be 4 million of them sold online, they're going to go for those. And like I said, these devices are low-power, built to a budget. You can get them into your hands and like SaaS service online. So people can take them apart, they can have a look at the code inside of them. They can have a look at the operating system. So it's quite easy to find vulnerabilities on these IOT devices. >> Lauren: Oh yeah. >> So that is definitely a growing area. Also the level for harm on those kind of vulnerabilities, if we are talking about Internet-connected healthcare, Internet-connected hospital equipment, you know, control valves for factories that may or may not be dealing with certain kind of materials. That is definitely a focus both from a security industry perspective, and also kind of where we are seeing hackers targeting. >> That's great. So tell me a little bit about what else you're working on right now. I think, I always find it interesting to hear from you what you're kind of hacking with and-- >> Yeah, sure. So that's my, that's my kind of security hobby-cum-part time role I guess within DevNet. >> Lauren: Love it. >> I quite like that kind of hands-on security evangelism. A lot of other stuff I'm doing is all around kind of open source and micro services and containers. So we're doing lots of work internally with Kubernetes Right now. Proof of concepting, some new user space networking code. >> Lauren: Oh great. >> Which would allow basically the network your traffic takes from your application in the container, write out to the network card, to be a user space app. So, you know, you're not stuck with the networking that a cloud provider gives you. If you want to test your application fully like packet to app back to the wire, and know that that network is also going to go with you when you deploy anywhere, we're going to be able to do that. >> That's fabulous. >> And there's also some real performance benefits to kind of not going in and out of the Linux kernel, so we can kind of saturate 40 gigabits a second from a container, straight down to the wire on kind of commodity compute like UCS what like any x86 service. So really excited about that. It's in development at the moment. That's all open source. >> Lauren: It will be all open source. >> It's all open source already under the FD.io project, FD dot io. >> Oh. >> The integration into Kubernetes is ongoing. And obviously will be open sourced as it gets developed. But that's super exciting. Also just the whole Merakifi, Merakification if I can say that. This idea of turning on-prem devices into kind of black box, you know, cloud managed, cloud updated. You have an IT team. They're just remote and kind of paid for in a SaaS model rather than having to manage and patch those devices on-prem. >> Lauren: Oh yeah. >> You know, we currently do that with switches and routers and cameras as I'm sure you know that the Meraki product portfolio, I don't see why we don't do that with on-prem compute. Why don't we do that with on-prem, you know, Kubernetes clusters. Why should a Kubernetes cluster, just because it sat in your data center, be any different in terms of usability, billing, management, than the one you get from Google Cloud platform or Azure or AWS? It should have the same user experience. So across those two areas, yeah, that's where I'm spending most of my time at the moment. >> Great, well, we're kind of wrapping up here. Tell me, what is the most exciting thing for you that's coming down the path in the next six months or so? >> Um. >> Can you tell us? >> I cannot tell you the most exciting thing, I'm afraid. It has to do with everything I'm talking about, kind of the networking, the as a service, super excited about user space networking. We have customers that looking to do kind of real-time video pipelines for a broadcast in containers. And being able to do that on-prem or in cloud or wherever, and this FD.io VPP technology, I think will really unlock that. >> Lauren: That's great. >> So real use cases, and yeah, super excited. >> Great. Matt, thank you so much for coming on today. >> It's been pleasure. >> Yeah, my pleasure as well. This is Lauren Clooney and we'll be right back from the show here at Cisco DevNet Create. (jingle)

>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, it's The Cube, covering DevNet Create 2018. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Okay, welcome back, everyone. We're here live with The Cube in Mountain View, California for exclusive coverage of Cisco DevNet Create. I'm John Furrier with my co-host today, Lauren Cooney. Our next guest is Mandy Whaley, who's the Director of Developer Experience at Cisco DevNet, been on multiple times. She's also the key person here in the DevNet community on the Cisco side, putting all of this together with Susie Wee and the team. Great to have you back. >> Thank you! >> You look fabulous. >> Really excited to be here. >> Great job on the stage today. I want to just quickly get the news out there. You've got some new things going on here at this event that's new, but building on top of what you guys did at the inaugural event. >> Yes, yes! So one of the new things that we added this year is called Camp Create, and the idea with it was, we wanted to have a builder track for our people that wanted to come and actually code the whole time that they were here. We put together a specific sort of experience for them. And it's not a hackathon, but it has hackathon elements. We started with six use cases that we outlined originally, gave them all the technology here on site, so they're actually using location services from the wireless network here. We've got collaboration equipment, we've got things from the Google partnership we brought in. And these six teams all picked a use case, and they're building furiously, and they're going to present their final demos tomorrow. One of the teams is even doing like an Oculus Rift kind of thing that'll be cool. >> That's great, so how much time do these folks have? >> So, they started this morning at 8, and they're finishing tomorrow at 3. >> So, will they stay up all night? >> They, many of them, are thinking to stay up all night. >> That's awesome. >> So let's just get this, the numbers, so Camp Create is six teams of five people, over six use cases? >> Six different use cases, >> Over two days. >> Two days, that's right. >> So they have to pick a use case, or they have to do all six? >> They are each picking, each team picks a use case. >> One use case. And codes away as a team. >> Yes. And they can, there is parameters in the use case, but there's also a lot of room for creativity to add to it. So we're interested to see how those come together. And we started, this is our first year. We had a waiting list of people who were wanting to get into Camp Create. So we plan to grow it next year, and we thought maybe have 12 teams on the six use cases, and then have the two teams face off on who has the best solution, so that could be fun. >> Camp Create madness. You got to do a qualifying round. >> Oh, yeah, a whole, yeah. >> You know, down the road, you'll have brackets. >> John's going to be a judge. >> That'd be great! >> I want to work with you on this, I love the idea. Camp Create, check it out. Congrats, I love the formula. >> Thank you. >> It creates competitiveness with collaboration, makes it fun, but that's part of your program here, fun, as well. >> That's right. We definitely want to have fun. So we wanted this DevNet Create to be a lot about community connections that form, and you generally have an easier time doing that when you're having fun. So a lot of hands on, a lot of time for community members to connect. >> Oh yeah, the Tech Talks are back, right? >> The Tech Talks are back. >> What's the topics this week in Tech Talks? >> So, we've got topics ranging from DevOps practices and patterns to IoT and blockchain and we have a lot even around developer experience and API experience, which I'm super excited about. And then we have all the hands-on workshops, where you can actually go and sit and code and get hands-on with many open source projects, with different platforms from our partners, all kinds of stuff. >> That's great. Yeah, there's also a big emphasis on the microservices and Kubernetes because of the Google partnership that we brought in this year. >> Is that weaved in to Istio stuff? >> Yes. >> Has that weaved in, and where has that kind of made its way into the workshops, mini-hacks and things you got going on? >> It's in pretty much all of them, so one of the things we've been excited about is our Istio sandbox. So our DevNet sandbox, where developers can try out all kinds of different platforms, we have an Istio one that's, it's set up and it has some rails on it, some use cases, so it's easy for people who, maybe, aren't familiar with Istio to really try it out. So we have some challenges here around that, and then definitely a lot of workshops that are covering different cloud native topics. >> Well, you guys do a great job. This is the second event. Last year was phenomenal. DevNet and the booth at Cisco Live in Barcelona was great. We'll be at Cisco Live in Orlando. What's it like now, internally at Cisco, because the Cisco Developer Program, I mean, I've watched it from the a kernel of a handful, one person, to two people to three people, and then, all of a sudden, internal politics says, "We're a routing company, we're a networking company," So now Cisco has evolved itself into a full-blown, almost a half a million, billion people, I mean half a million people, I'm thinking about Facebook scale, but half a million people, almost, in the DevNet community. >> Right. >> And you've got the Create, which is now the cloud native, how's it going, what's the team look like, what are you guys excited about? >> It's going great. The team has been growing, but growing thoughtfully and intentionally in how we want to grow it. The community has been amazing, because we really have been working hard to bring together these two audiences. Our networking and infrastructure developers, who are moving into DevOps, doing more automation, starting to use APIs, and then connecting them with the application developers, who work in the enterprise, and really working to get that conversation together and show, kind of, the value of Cisco to both of them. And we've seen growth in both, this conference, it's more about the application developers, and that is a big growing part of it. >> I got to say, I've seen a natural progression between network engineers, network developers with cloud, because anyone who's done any kind of configuration or provisioning of anything-- >> That's right. >> knows, can go to the cloud instantly. It's like, oh my God. And then you got containers, a concept that's well understood by network engineers, and they write software. So not a lot of learning, I mean, some learning language, but it's not a big leap. >> It's not a big leap, and it's such a technically proficient group of people anyway who are fast learners, and so it's definitely an easy way forward for them. And then, what we try to do is, our Edge Compute, for instance, that's deploy a docker container, so developers already know how to do that, it's using tools they're familiar with, so trying to connect that from both sides. >> It's like a fish taking to water, I mean, it's not that hard. Just jump right in. So, okay, now the cloud native really gets exciting when you talk about what Kubernetes is enabling. Because now you're a true DevOps world, where the people who don't want to touch the network at all still need to have some enablement where in that world, it's like, "Hey, I'm coding away on my apps, "that's all I care about. "I don't want to get down in the weeds under the hood "on provisioning stuff," or any kind of programmability. Where's that kick in? Where's that cross-connect? >> Yeah, so you definitely, for the groups that do want to work at that level, you want to enable that for sure, and get all the acceleration you can, and then, like our guest speaker from Google this morning said, he was like, HyperCloud is real, and it's also hard, and there's challenges, and so I think the Google partnership with Cisco and Cisco DevNet is to really work through those challenges, make it real and find the ways through those challenges. So we're trying to bring, again, kind of those two worlds together. >> Where are those connection points with the Google relationship? Is it Istio? Is it Kubernetes? >> Istio is part of it, Kubernetes, there's use cases for connecting on from, to cloud services, and then connecting cloud applications to on-prem things, so it's really about enabling all of those different use cases. >> And those best practices that these developers cross-environment need to actually deliver these applications to the cloud or pull them back on-prem. That's right, and how do they learn, maybe, the piece that they don't already know, whichever side of that equation they're coming from. So some of our DevNet audience, we started doing Containers 101. Like, if you don't know about containers, here's how you learn it. Get started with Istio, so connecting those dots. >> Well, Mandy, great to see you. Congratulations, Camp Create. >> Thank you, yeah! >> I want to get in, put a team together. >> Okay, we're doing the bracket year and all that. >> No, we do a whole qualifying. >> Yes, definitely! >> just Northern California, Southern California, >> Regional. >> and then bring the best of the best for a face-off cage match. >> Are you going to plan it? That's great. >> Yeah, of course, I'm in. >> You plan it next year. >> He can plan it, I'll judge. >> Awesome, perfect, thank you! >> I love anything to do with camping, but, appreciate it, thanks for coming on. >> Absolutely! >> Thank you. >> We're bringing you all the action here at DevNet Create here in Silicon Valley, Mountain View, California. Be right back with more after this short break. >> Mandy: Thanks so much!

>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California. It's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2018, brought to you by Cisco. (techy music playing) >> Hey, welcome back, everyone. We're here live at theCUBE here in Mountain View in the heart of California, the Silicon Valley. I'm John Furrier, my cohost Lauren Cooney. Our next guest is Riaz Raihan, who's the global VP and general manager of Cisco, IOT, CUBE alumni, back... Last on at Cisco Live in Barcelona. We got Cisco Live coming up, but we're here at DevNet Create developer... Develop our ecosystem for Cisco and external cloud native developers, great to see you. >> Thank you, John, pleasure to be back. >> What's a Cisco guy like you doing at a hoody show like this, IOT... >> You know, IOT is so topical and there's so much interest around it, so just happy to be here with the developers and just get to meet a few people out here and just be part of this whole event. >> So, IOT, we last time, and all joking aside is really hot because you have now, you know, the cloud is a foundation, on-premise data, hybrid cloud going on, but the Edge of the network's certainly very relevant. So, you've got a lot of new things happening. So, the question for you is what industries are early adopting... What industries do you see that are adopting IOT in the programmable way? I'm not so much as censored networks, they're out there, but as they bring them into, the IOT into the technology, IT world, which industries are the most adoptive for you guys? >> I talk about, you know, a handful of industries that are really leading the charge, right. Number one I'd say is manufacturing. We see a lot of activity out there primarily because for the first time manufacturers have an opportunity to really converge their data and put it on an IP network, which is exciting. The other big one is energy, both oil and gas as well as utility. >> John: Mm-hmm. >> And then we're seeing huge amount of interest in transportation, both in actually the roadways as well as well as the fleet that run on the roadways. In addition to those I'd say retail and general public sector and cities are big adopters of IOT. >> So, on the IOT side with, say... Let's take transportation, so as we know, we know that Uber happened with Uber. They had a death, now the censor, they sort of argued latency matters, right, so you've got to have a network, support it. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> Is smart cities truly happening in a way that's, in your opinion, moving the ball down the field. Where is the smart cities with IOT respect to cities I mean, is it still early, are they moving the ball down the field, your thoughts? >> You know, I'm asked this question pretty often and I can tell you that moving a city towards a smart city is actually a massive endeavor. What we find is the cities that are doing this successfully, they kind of start small with a few use cases. Let's say parking, maybe lighting, and then they've got to expand out the number of use cases but also geographic spread of where they'll deploy, and specifically, you know, when they work with us one of the big advances we're making is something called the FOG Appliance. Building this easy-to-install appliance that can be used at intersections and at various points to enable cities to go smart. >> So, Lauren, you and I were talking the other day about this, is that, you know, in the cloud, you bring cloud together with the developers. >> Lauren: Yep. >> It's interesting because they have to actually figure out that software going to be powering the Edge-- >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> And you know, Kubernetes is in one example, and then when you start looking at what Kubernetes is doing to the network layer you say, "Okay, I've got to write software." >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> But most of the Edge applications, oil and gas, they're like facilities guys. These guys are hardware people. They're deploying cameras, they're not-- >> Well, there has to be their software that actually runs on that as well to enable things for people, places, and things at the Edge and I think you all have to look at the Edge when you are talking about IOT, especially. >> Software, that's the key, what do you say to all those guys that have to relearn software? (laughing) Come to DevNet Create, I mean, this is a real issue. >> Yeah, you know, if you look at software in general, right, software's playing a bigger and bigger role in these applications, not to diminish the role of hardware or networking or any of the other elements, but what software's certainly playing a bigger role, like let me give you an example. Let's talk about the FOG Appliance. You know, one of the things we've been working on quite diligently is building out a single software framework that can sit on a number of different hardware devices depending on what the use case is, and the use case is defined by the customer, it's defined by the industry. It's also defined by the price point, so what we're seeing more and more, John, is having a single software framework but being able to deploy across different platforms, if you will, and therefore building different appliances to solve different problems. >> Lauren: Great. >> Yeah, and one of the things that I think is huge, and I want to get your thoughts on this, I think we should do a deep dive on it, and that is is that video is becoming much more of a bigger app. We use video a lot, as seen on theCUBE. Thank you for watching, but there's a lot of data in the video apps. It's not just do the video to communicate a message. >> Riaz: Yep. >> There's a digital artifact-- >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> That's beyond what it's for. It's now digitized-- >> Riaz: Yeah. >> So, that's now data, your thoughts? >> You know, when we were talking before you mentioned video is a data asset, completely agree. What we're finding is video is now transitioning from just being something that we thought about for safety and security to becoming more of an intelligent asset. Video's also now getting integrated more with the business process. So, let me give you an example. We're working with the manufacturer of nylon, and this is a process industry that works 24/7, and they're using video to actually monitor the output as it comes out of the machines. Because when the temperature rises above a certain limit, and this is obviously a manufacturing defect, it tends to blob up the nylon, which then reduces the value of the nylon from something that's high grade and high margin to low grade and low margin. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> And video's helping solve the problem. So, the video creates an alert that's part now of the manufacturing process and manufacturing control, allowing management to intervene quickly to kind of at least cut their losses. So, that's an example of how video's now becoming very much a part of the business process. Not just safety and security but well beyond that. >> Well beyond surveillance. >> Riaz: Yeah. >> Lauren: Yeah. >> This is more than just normal use cases. So, new value activities are going on with video. >> Absolutely, the other big one is traffic, and I'm talking about road traffic. Whether you look at tunnels or you look at parkways and so on, we're now seeing video being used to monitor the flow patterns of cars-- >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> On highways and on parkways-- >> Lauren: Yeah. >> And then not just using that to predict traffic jams, but in some cases predict accidents. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> Because once you take these data labels and data assets through video and compute them, it's a stream of information that can be analyzed mathematically using an algorithm, and then fortunately we are able to now use that-- >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> To prevent accidents potentially, right? >> Lauren: Yeah. >> So, that's the kind of thing we see video in. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> And this is just the cusp. You'll see a lot more of use cases where video and IOT get very integrated and again, very happy that Cisco's leading the charge on that. >> Mm-hmm. >> So, Lauren, I want to ask you a question because I know you and I have been talking about this, and that is is that the developer role around this is not obvious... I mean, it's obvious, "Oh, got to write software." >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> But now you've got to create ecosystems. So, let's just say businesses want to integrate video, they have a buy/build decision to make. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> Do they build it from scratch or they integrate it in. So, if you take Riaz's next level of conversation is video is a service, it's a microservice. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> If it's a data asset, if you believe that it's a microservice. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> So, it's not trivial now, you've got to figure out how to codify it. What do you guys think about that? You guys are the experts in the software, what's your thoughts? >> So, you know, I can jump in. I think this is an important trend. You know, especially if you look at three industries that I personally work with: manufacturing, you look at energy, and then you look at retail. These are three industries that I think are leading the charge on how they're using video, you know, in this context, and how the video's actually provided I think is less important. What's more important, as you said, is the microservice that has video as a component, and then consuming that and integrating it with a whole value stream within that industry. The other important element, I believe, is the use of video in conjunction with other types of sensors. So, let me give you an example. We're working with a large telco and you know, they have these cell towers placed all across the country and they actually video, they have video to monitor the cell towers and that's great, but the problem is it gives them a lot of false positives. So, they solved the problem by using human form recognition, still-- >> Like what's a false positive, give me an example. >> A false positive is, you know, a leaf, branch blowing. >> John: Oh, okay. >> And that gives you a positive reading, right. Now, they've kind of used, they've used some technology and they've reduced that down, but they still have too many false positives. So, they decided to combine the video feed with some of the sensors that they have. For example, when someone tries to pull a copper plate from the cell phone tower there's a sensor that tracks that. So, now combining the video input and the sensor input they get, you know, much fewer false positives. >> John: Yeah. >> And are able to take action much more expeditiously. >> The co-occurring incidents are a huge, huge opportunity for the IP. So, the thing I want to ask you, because I think this is much more business oriented, so want to get your thoughts on it... Okay, video's a data asset, people say it. I believe that, now I want to operationalize that in my company. Talk about a new process improvement, that's hard to do because they've never done it before. How are you guys engaging customers and what are some best practices to get them to operationalize a new, not just new technology or service, but actually integrate it into a preexisting or changing value chain? >> One of the things we do, John, is we'll engage with customers to do what we call a value management analysis. So, we actually sit down with them, work out, you know, what their existing process looks like, what an improved process might look like, and importantly, what kind of cost they can take out of the process, out of the system, or what kind of new value they can drive for their customers. So, it's either an increase in revenue, it's a decrease in cost, or an improvement in process efficiencies. Once we've done that it really allows us to then pair up that new process with our technology, and then actually track how much of the value they've received. We've found this approach kind of grounds everything in a very strong ROI, so instead of guessing as to what the output will be and does it actually move the needle on a value basis. We're actually able to document that up front and then actually track the results against what we thought would be. The other advantage of this process is it allows us to improve incrementally. So, the first version of a video enabled business process might give us a certain amount of value, but as we improve on that you could see incremental values and other processes being added on. Very similar to starting small and then adding on incrementally-- >> John: Yeah. >> Kind of a designed way. >> But you got to be open minded. Just let me throw a wrench into the equation here, which is okay, new data source... >> Riaz: Yeah. >> You mentioned the co-occurring identity on the cell tower, for example. There could be, like, multiple data inputs that are new. How does a customer figure that out? >> Different customers are different, and again, as I mentioned-- >> John: Or in generally speaking, because you've got to be prepared for the unknown. >> Yeah, some industries I think are more open to this because they have seen... They have felt this problem before. Going back to manufacturing as an example, monitoring, visually monitoring the output of a manufacturing process is a very labor intensive, you know, proposition. Manufacturers have struggled doing that for a long time. >> John: Yeah. >> Now having used video and getting just a very high level of efficiency-- >> John: Yeah. >> And combining different types of inputs is something they're very open to. >> John: Yeah. >> So, we see them very open to it. Other industries, I think, are coming along, but it all goes back to how important a problem are you solving and what's the payoff of solving the problem? >> John: Yeah. >> The bigger the problem, the more the willingness. >> Great conversation-- >> Lauren: Yeah. >> We had the devops guy on early. Damian, who's with Rundeck and he's saying, you know, bringing down silos and tickets is killing operations. >> Lauren: Yep. >> It's an old paradigm. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> You guys are going down a new road, and we talked about this at Cisco Live in Barcelona. You got tail wind for you guys as this, but you got a clean sheet of paper but you got some preexisting stuff, but it's not like baggage. It's just opportunity, in my opinion. So, I got to ask you how is the business going, what are you guys doing? What are some of the recent successes you've had? Share some insight into the-- >> Yeah, and I think just to add to that, I think what are the revenue opportunities that you see that, you know, you're providing these services to these customers. They must see new revenue opportunities as well. Wondering what those are. >> Absolutely. So, I'll kind of cover both, both sides of my business. I'll start with Jasper, Cisco Jasper. Our Cisco Jasper business is doing fabulously well. We added almost 10,000 devices last month alone, or last quarter, and we are on track to keep adding devices at a very fast pace, so very excited about that. We've just crossed 75 million. So, 75 million devices on Jasper. The last time we spoke, John, the number was 60 million. In addition, we've also seen many more enterprises adopting Jasper. >> John: Yeah. >> The last time we spoke it was 14,000, now it's over 16,400. (laughing) So, that number keeps growing. >> You'll see next month it'll be 20,000. (laughing) >> So, that number just keeps growing-- >> John: Yes. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> And that allows us to broaden our reach-- >> John: Yeah. >> Get into different use cases and drive incremental value for our customers. On the Kinetic side, as I mentioned we're seeing a lot of traction in the verticals that I laid out earlier, but specifically what we're finding now is customers are getting serious-- >> Take a minute to explain Kinetic for a second. >> Riaz: Sure. >> Just one minute and then get into it. >> Sure, so Kinetic our data fabric. It's our platform that allows us to extract data from all kinds of IT devices that are sitting on a corporate or a private network. It allows us to process that data at the Edge and then it allows us to transport the data to wherever the customer wants it to be. So, it's really our IOT platform, our data fabric at the core. The Kinetic business is doing great. We've had lots of update, there's actually a booth out here where they're demoing Kinetic. >> Lauren: Mm-hmm. >> I see a lot of people coming in and trying to understand it and we see people deploying Kinetic in more and more unique ways. We're working, for example, with a German manufacturer, a very prestigious German manufacturer that's now launching a pretty large project with Kinetic where they're using Kinetic to monitor the health of not just all their new machines, but also all the Braunfeld machines that they have installed over the past decade, right. So, we're very excited about that and very excited about the future. >> Well, great job, congratulations. Always great to talk with you. I think it's one of the exciting bright spots within Cisco with the IOT, certainly the DevNet developer program has been a huge success and that's only going to help you guys, and obviously the DevNet, create. You want some more software developers, you know, working on Kinetic and also Meraki and all these cool tools. So, congratulations. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you. >> More live coverage here, DevNet Creates, theCUBE in Silicon Valley in Mountain View, California. We'll be right back after this short break. (techy music playing)

>> Announcer: Live from the Computer History Museum in Mountain View, California, it's theCUBE covering DevNet Create 2018. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hello everyone, and welcome back to theCUBE's live coverage of Cisco's DevNet Create here in Mountain View in the heart of Silicon Valley. I'm John Furrier, my co-cost, Lauren Cooney, our next guest is Susie Wee, is vice president and CTO of Cisco DevNet. This is her event, DevNet is a Cisco's developer team, conference, community, DevNet created a cloud native, much more dev ops oriented. Our second year covering it, it's only a year and a half old. The creator with her team, Susie, great to have you back. >> Great, it's great to be back. >> What a success, again. You guys are learning, we heard from the keynote that you made some changes, heard some feedback, you added more cooler elements. But this is about technology enablement tools, education, and then fun, and having people exchange information. How's it going? What's the upkeep? >> It's going great. So we're really excited to have our second DevNet Create, and what happened was last year, what we've always tried to do with DevNet overall is to make sure that we had hands-on material because people want to code, people want to learn about the newest technologies. We also made sure that the content of the first DevNet Create was from Cisco, but also from the leading players in the community. And so we got feedback from last year on how to improve it for this year, and basically they just wanted more hands on, and so we've actually expanded from having three parallel workshops to eight parallel workshops, where just folks can get hands-on and code. We continued to have both Cisco content as well as community content from leaders in the field. When we got feedback last year, what happened was we were collecting the feedback. The people who responded, we asked a few questions, and we said: Did you feel that this was useful for you? Did you feel that you were learning about modern tools and technologies that would help you in your career? Would you come back again? The strangest thing that happened is like 100% of people said that they were learning about topics that are modern and they need for their careers. And 100% of them said they would come back again. And I'm like, is it still 100%? 'Cause one person says no, it's not 100%. And so to everyone that responded, they wanted to come back, so we just gave them more of what they wanted. >> It's great, it feels great. You've got a good vibe, but I think there's some real interesting things. We talked last time about how the cloud native world connecting with the commercial liability of Cisco. Cisco is not a small company, they invented routing as we know it, they connect the Internet, and you had that kind of ops networking culture with this new programmable Internet kind of coming together, so there's some notable news you guys had here, why I was impressed by. One is these business exchange, or business ecosystem. Talk about some of the things that you guys are doing now as a result of these two worlds coming together. It's not just speeds that feed tech goodness, just like business value. Money making! >> (laughing) Just to go a little bit more into that, what happens is you kind of have your world of infrastructure, and you have developers who are writing cloud apps, it's so easy to deploy, and really get a lot of value out there. But then you have the world of real companies, real data, real existing infrastructure, enterprise data, smart cities that you want to bring online and everything there, and there's a new type of app that's come to play, and there's a new type of app that of course, needs to work in the cloud, but also needs to couple in with the real world and physical things, and enterprise data. And so that brings rise to a whole new set of applications and new ways to do business. So in terms of what we're doing with that, as someone writes this kind of an app, it's not easy, just like download it onto my phone. It's actually, how do I couple that with the location based infrastructure? How do I couple that with enterprise and hybrid cloud data? And so what we have now is a business exchange, an ecosystem exchange where we can bring those applications up, where if someone is using Cisco infrastructure, we have partners around the world who install and manage solutions that they put for their customers. And we want to show them these are the applications that work together with those products. These are the solutions that you can deliver, so we want to take the applications that our developers are writing and make it available to our partners, to let them use our go to market that we have around the world. >> We get the technical developer ecosystem, and you have the business ecosystem, so that's an indicator that there's some movement and growth. Where is it coming from? Where are you seeing the highlights here? >> Yeah, so in terms of the movement and growth, what happens is we're concentrated on technical enablement for the first few years of DevNet. But clearly, the reason to do the technical enablement is to do that business pull through. Where do we see the growth? So, what happens is everyone in the world wants to digitize, right? So people want to take their manufacturing lines, they want to digitize them. People who have cities want to offer newer experiences that are still kind of leveraging the old, but then providing a top-notch experience for that. So we have people that are in cities who want to use our infrastructure, but also have innovative applications to give to their folks. We have partners around the world who want to not only provide infrastructure, but to provide interesting solutions and experiences. So it's really interesting to see the hunger and the desire now for people to use applications in all different ways, and we're trying to really package it up for them. >> So you're actually stitching these applications together and then packaging them up for consumption for the solution? Is that what you're looking at? >> Yeah, because everybody's buying. Everybody needs a network, everybody has something that exists, but they want to go above it. That boundary between applications and infrastructure is kind of blurring, right? And what an application can do when it's really coupled in to an infrastructure with APIs is completely new, and they want to play, they want to innovate. They don't want to just do the same old thing, and they want to kind of unleash the power, get the value from all of the application development that's going on. >> I think that's great. One of the things I saw from the keynote was the numbers in terms of your exponential growth over the past four years and also the number of folks who continuously visit the site. I think that's awesome. Can you kind of give folks that are looking to build communities any tips or tricks? >> Yeah, and actually, Lauren, you were with us early on. You saw when I was begging for Cisco to have a developer community, and so we didn't have any members at that time. But yeah, we've grown to 480,000, actually 485,000 registered developers. We have 60,000 active monthly users. >> Lauren: That's great. >> So they are really doing stuff. But yeah, in terms of what it takes to grow that community, I think really the key is that my incentive, my goals, my mission, which I shared, is that we want to make developers successful. We want to make our partners in that broader ecosystem and our customers successful. It's not actually my job to sell products. Obviously any solution that's written around APIs for a product will sell products, but my job is to make the ecosystem successful. So I think the key is just constantly keeping their best interest at heart, and having a model where obviously it will pull through the right business for Cisco. >> You've got great self-awareness, and I think that's important to understand what they're trying to do, but also you bring a lot to the table. Cisco has massive presence and enterprises in businesses, whether it's service providers, down to the small medium enterprise to large enterprises. As you look across Cisco, you bring the goods to the party, so to speak. How do you balance that, and what's your approach? So you're taking more of the programmable net ops, which I love, by the way, we talked about that in Barcelona at Cisco Live. You can bring a lot to the table, but you don't want to firehose the developers with all this Cisco stuff. How are you blending that together? What's your approach? >> This is a great point. So what we have to do is we have to understand who our audience is, and we need to bring the right material and speak the language for that audience. And to give you an example, is that we've had you at DevNet Create, we've had you at the DevNet Zones at Cisco Live. When we go to Cisco Live and we have our developer conferences, that is the group in the audience that knows Cisco. They're getting certified, they know how to deploy infrastructure, it's a tremendous community. We have millions of people around the world who basically run, deploy, manage these solutions. >> John: Over years of experience, too. >> Oh, decades of experience, yes, and certification, mastery, expertise. >> They're the network nerds. >> They are the network nerds! (laughs) >> Moving packets around, but now it's changed. >> And the way that we talk to them is different, because what we present to them is how can you automate your infrastructure? How can you scale and use the newest tools? How can you get observability and insights from that infrastructure itself? And then, here's the software tools that you need to use, and here's the APIs you need to know about. Let us understand your problems, and let's work on this together. Now, the types of platforms that we expose and the APIs will be for networking, it'll be for security, it will be for compute, it'll be in many of these areas. Then we come over to DevNet Create, and what we had to do was create a separate venue to hit app developers, cloud native developers, they're not going to Cisco Live. They're actually going to developer conferences, they're in the Bay Area, they're all around the world. They don't think of Cisco or even of infrastructure in what they do, necessarily. >> It's a different culture. >> It's a different culture. And we actually had to re-jigger our vocabulary, we had to re-jigger what we present to them, because when they think of IOS, they don't think of a network operating system, Cisco's iOS operating system, they think of a mobile operating system. So we've actually had to even retrain ourselves to show this is the value that we provide to application developers, here's the platforms and the APIs that matter to you. Here's the right level of abstraction of what would be relevant to an app developer, and really speak to them. And DevNet Create is a separate venue created for that reason. >> And timing is everything, as we know. The wind's at your back because you've got Kubernetes, the container madness, the standardization of contains, which is not new, the Google guy was on earlier talking about containers. You've got micro services, you've got Istio, which is where you're partnering with Google, so this is a new, real emerging tech area that's a nice glue layer between the cultures. How are you handling that? Do you agree? >> Oh my goodness. >> What's your focus on? >> Yes, it's so amazing. So the whole world's in containers and micro services, is shifting how applications are developed. We actually used it within our own system, where we wanted to use the newest technologies, we saw the benefits of working in container and microservices based architecture, to not write monolithic apps but to really be able to compose and reuse services. So we had to go through that change, but what we saw is that when you're dealing with enterprise data, confidential data, customer data, and then public cloud data and everything there, there's a lot of thinking about how to write a cloud app that is a hybrid cloud app that uses OnPrim and public cloud and the best of both worlds. And the world of containers is interesting because suddenly it's the performance of your application, it depends even more on the network. Getting security of how your containers are built up, how they're connected, how they're spinning up in different places, you need that consistency. So having the whole tool of how do you now deploy containers on OnPrim resources as well as public cloud based resources is tricky, and you need to build in that security into the infrastructure itself, and then provide the right abstraction for the developers with tools like Istio. So we're partnered up with Google. It's been a fantastic collaboration where we start with Google's leadership in just cloud native development and what they have to do to scale, and then take together the problems and the opportunities of real enterprises, of real cities, and things there. And as Allen said this morning, it's complicated. It's not that easy. There's a whole new set of problems that we need to deal with, and this partnership is amazing at putting that together. >> Makes the network more important. >> Makes the network more important, yes. >> Awesome, so now talk about what you're doing for incentives. Obviously, you've got a great posture to the marketplace, love how you're doing it, you're bringing two worlds together, bringing a lot to the table, but now you've got to keep people motivated and keep them incentives. Couple things you announced on stage, DevNet Solutions Plus, which is much more curated set of approved rockstar developers or apps that can get on a price list. That's like a lottery ticket. It's like the golden ticket for a developer. There's real value there, right? You can't invite everybody, but you got to do some QAing, but talk about some of these incentive programs you have. >> Absolutely. So what happens is once again, a company like Cisco has an entire community and ecosystem of people and places of infrastructure around the world, and they're looking to differentiate, they're looking to have interesting offerings as well. They're very relevant, because an app developer today needs to figure out how can they make money, how can they take all of everything they've invested in software and bring it to a business value. And so what we're doing is actually coupling that app developer with the entire Cisco channel and the Cisco partners that are out there, and then letting their applications come forward. So when you get something onto... The way that it works is that Cisco has its price list, partners around the world can create solutions that they deliver with those products. But in addition to Cisco's products, what we can do is put on a software and ISV's products onto there, and we're adding it on to the Cisco price list. It's a whole new type of app store. (laughs) But it's another way to go to market to get into these places. >> You're seeing some early returns in terms of the types of ISVs that are coming into the tables, or pattern to the match, or see more network-centric? Who are some of the kinds of developers? What's the make up look like? >> Yeah, so it's really a combination. So what happens is there's the set of applications that are built on infrastructure, surprisingly. So it builds on a collaboration, or a unified communication infrastructure, things that are built on a UCS, like a compute infrastructure. Things that need the network in a mission critical way. So like trading applications, right? You need that network to work, the performance of the application needs to be coupled, so then people tend to buy a kit of here's the software, here's the hardware that makes it all work, I'm buying infrastructure, I want to buy these together. And so it's really kind of putting that bundle of value together and then letting that sell. And I talked to our partners around the world, it's an amazing ecosystem. And when they can actually connect to the world of software developers and this ecosystem in a way that it helps them differentiate their business, it helps bring the app developer money and a business opportunity. It's a whole new level of scale. It's incredible. >> You'll be pushing video apps on there, too. >> Susie: Absolutely. >> CUBE videos. >> CUBE videos, there we go. (laughing) Absolutely. >> Interesting times. Awesome. Anything you want to add? >> Yeah, definitely. One of the things I was wondering about is that with this whole app ecosystem and the partners and the things along those lines, what are the apps that you're seeing that you actually never expected to see? >> Well, some are ones that we actually did expect, or we hoped for them, but the fact that they're coming through is another case. There's a set of applications that are built, for example, around contact centers. Contact centers are customer care, it's the way that people are interacting, right? And there's a whole kind of communications infrastructure around that, it's how people are answering phones, offering services, knowing what to do, so how you build those solutions together. There's a set of healthcare applications, so when you're going into healthcare, your patient monitoring devices versus your guest Wi-Fi services are different, so the kinds of solutions that you can provide there are key. There's actually a great thing in terms of indoor location based services. So we have Meraki and CMX where your Wi-Fi infrastructure not only provides wireless connectivity but gives you indoor location proximity. There's actually a company here called Map Wise, which has built kind of a wayfinding application on top. When I was at Web Summit, then they had Cisco infrastructure for putting up the conference, then they had their application to help people navigate throughout the conference, and they came in, and I actually spoke to Matthew, who's here, and he was like yeah, I had to learn because I had to go in early. They had to set up the network, and then I'm a software guy, I had to get my app to work on that network. I hadn't really thought about how to do that before. Right, so you're starting to couple these apps into that. >> Stu: New use cases. >> These are new use cases, and so much value. >> Yeah, and it's good that you get the terminology, it's a language issue, right? So you got to get the languages nailed down. All right, final question for you. What's the bumper sticker here? What's the phrase? I heard you on stage, create, connect, secure. What's the current DevNet Create tagline? >> So it is: Connect to Create. And so in one port, it was about connecting the world, providing that connection, and that's what we've done over the last 25 years. And over the next 25, even more things will be connected, but it's really about the solutions that we can build together as a team, and there's an ecosystem now that you have APIs that are exposed. You can build machine learning, and artificial intelligence together with world leading connectivity, together with world leading cloud companies. And when you bring all those together, you can have entirely new types of experiences that we can do, so it's Connect to Create. Along with that, actually comes the need for security and protection, and so that fabric needs to not only connect to create, but also connect and protect to create. And we think that by building that into the infrastructure as well, we can help app developers to secure their customers' data and to secure their users themselves, access, and all sorts of things. >> I love the concept of co-creation, really great collaboration model, and you guys are doing a great job. Congratulations on driving this developer program, and programs now, from a handful of renegades, now to a big organization, or growing organization. >> We're still lean, but our pack is growing. (laughing) >> You don't got to be a rocket scientist to know they're going to be doubling down on this. Cisco, cracking the code on the developer forum about learning the languages, knowing how to lead into the right cultures and bring them together, and have the right technology, enablement, and Susie, the creator, a part of the team, member of Cisco team for DevNet. Thanks for coming on and sharing, appreciate it. >> Susie: Thank you so much. >> Be right back with more live coverage after this short break. (upbeat music)

>> Live from the Computer History Museum, in Mountain View, California. It's the Cube! Covering DevNet Create 2018. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Hey, welcome back everyone. This is the Cube's live coverage here in Mountain View, California, heart of Silicon Valley, at the Computer History Museum for Cisco's DevNet Create. This is their developer eco-system for cloud natives, an extension to their popular and successful DevNet developer programs. A special event, really getting down and dirty on Kubernetes cloud native, and how to create real-time applications on the cloud. I'm John Furrier, my cohost Lauren Cooney, our next guest is Raj Krishna, who's the VP of Product Management with Cisco Meraki, doing some great things here, made a big announcement on stage. Welcome to the Cube, thanks for joining us. >> Thank you for having me, it's a pleasure to be here. >> So, before we jump into the speeds and feeds of some of the real impactful things that you've been doing, with this cool area in cloud, you just had some news on stage, you announced it. You guys are giving away a lot of Benjamins in product. Share the news. Yeah, we're going to be giving away 1.4 million dollars worth of our products, our cloud managed switches. And the reason why we're doing that is because we want to see the ecosystem, we want people to have access to our technology, because they're going to build all kinds of cool and interesting applications that we may not have thought of. So, by giving this gear away, we want to help evangelize, and help promote the ecosystem. >> You guys are creating a nice culture here, I got to say. I give you guys props, the second event you guys have done with DevNet create, where you're really looking at, and aligning with the cloud native developers. You've got things, you've got some hackathons, you've got some team-oriented camps here, but really it's about giving them the enablement, and the tooling to do things. You're not telling people "you need to develop this." You're not jamming stuff down their throat. Talk about the role of that, and what you guys are doing with your product, and how does that fit in? Because IoT comes right to mind for me. You know, new sensors, new things are happening, talk about specifically the things that you guys are offering from a tech standpoint, tools that you offer, and some of the things you expect that might happen. >> Most definitely. So, throughout the years as we've kind of built out a very large-scale cloud management platform, we've realized that the need for external orchestration tools, external monitoring tools, data aggregation tools, is paramount because people want to build not just interesting and cool applications, but they want to build security applications. They want to build data logging applications, analytics applications where they can take data from the infrastructure and then take data from their CRM, their customer resource management systems, and mix and match that data to be able to understand "hey, is there a pattern here, in terms of network traffic and foot traffic in my stores." So, as we've come to terms with this trend, we've been building out a very rich set of API's, that can help you aggregate data, that can help you visualize data, and we realized that that's not enough. So, that's why we've been investing heavily in the ecosystem play. That's why we've actually set up dedicated teams at Meraki. We have a brand new solutions architecture team that is hyperfocused and their sole mission in life is to enable developers. It's to go out and evangelize the technology, but then also have whiteboarding conversations with those developers, give them sample code, show them other sample applications. They've also stood up a brand new application app store where third party developers can have their apps featured, and they can have their apps purchased on their store. >> Take a minute to explain Meraki's role in this ecosystem, because it's a product, it's a switch, but it's not just hardware. Can you just take a minute just to lay it out, what is it, what does it do, and what does it enable? >> Yeah, so the reason why Meraki was so successful and acquired by Cisco was the cloud management aspect of it. The ability to roll out and provision and monitor, manage and scale a network, whether it's wireless, whether it's routing, whether it's switching, whether it's security, and to do that at a gargantuan scale where you have 10,000 sites or 20,000 sites, that was Meraki's bread and butter, but almost by accident what we realized was that would give you a large scale programmable platform, so we built these API's on top, and what we've learned through the years is that this is a massively programmable orchestration layer, right? For being able to program things, being able to extract data at scale-- >> Like what, like program what? >> So, let me give you an example. We have a service provider that we work with in Europe that services a million end customers. And what they do, is they're offering their services, their broadband connectivity services, their VoIP services, and they're also offering Meraki hardware in their web stores. I can go to their web store, and I can click "I want to buy a three year broadband contract, and I want to buy these widgets that come with it, one of those widgets is a Meraki widget." When they click Buy, it makes a series of API calls to the Meraki backend and everything gets provisioned automatically. Not just the Meraki services, but also the service providers own portfolio services, so it's enabled a seamless ordering experience where someone take Meraki, just as one part of the solution, and wrap a bunch of other services around it, and enable provisioning of that, at scale. >> Versus the alternative is ship a box, unpack it, connect to it-- >> Ship a box to a warehouse, unpack it, plug it in-- >> Login command line interface I mean, it's a nightmare, compared to what is is automated. >> Right >> Turnkey. >> Right, exactly. And the way that we really see ourselves fostering this ecosystem and our role in the ecosystem is we're just the platform, we are enabling the platform we want to make the platform easy to use, we want there to be rich documentation, we want there to be a set of API's, we want there to be scripts that we can make available, but really the creativity is going to come from those developers who come on board and solve unique customer problems that we may not have even thought of, so it's about working with those people, and making sure that they have the tools, the knowledge, the expertise and just enabling them. >> So, what would a traditional, kind of, Meraki developer look like? What kind of skills do they need? Do they have to have experience in networking, or app development, or what are you really looking at? >> Yeah, we're getting experience with an entire range of different types of application engineers, you know. People who are more mobile app centric, so we've seen mobile apps that are crafted, that integrate with Meraki beacons to trigger some kind of an action when I walk into a store, so very mobile app centric developers. We've seen a lot of interesting web-centric applications, you know, developers who are proficient in Java script, things like Ruby on Rails, building very rich, front-end visualizations of Meraki data, and then we've seen some even more hardcore networking engineers who really understand bits and bytes and the flows of data coming out of the network to, for example, take a NetFlow feed from our security appliance, and say "hey, this is a threat and I want to create, using this API call that tells me this is a threat, I want to have a tie-in with something like a lightbulb so that lightbulb goes off any time I see a network threat in my environment." So, what's kind of cool and interesting here is I have a range of different types of developers with different types of skillsets, and they're able to enable use cases and applications based off of their area of domain expertise. >> All right, I got to ask the hard question. This is the tough one. Increased surface area increases more potential security threats, malware, I mean there's lightbulbs out that that have, you know, connect to your WiFi, I mean they're basically a PC, you've got a processor in there, so great for malware, to attach to, sit there dormant, get inside the network, this is a huge concern. How do you guys look at the security paradigm for this? >> Yeah, absolutely. And that's why building a large scale network means having security first and foremost in your mind. So, we actually have a very rich set of security products that can help you secure your endpoints, and help you secure your network. So, just giving you an example here: We have a security appliance that actually integrates with Cisco's Talos threat engine. Cisco Talos is a team of hundreds of security researchers, and they're constantly staying up to date with the latest security vulnerabilities, security patches, trojans, malware, etc, etc. If you're running a Meraki security appliance, you have visibility into these real-time threats, and also you can extract that data and visualize it in a third party portal, or you can save it for logging. So, making sure that people are aware of the security threats, making rich tools available to our developer ecosystem that can help protect them against these threats, and then also having a privacy by design mindset when we're building and constructing API's. Let me give you an example. The upcoming laws in Europe, the GDPR laws, going into effect May 25th, we're actually building API's that will help you abide to these laws by letting you delete personally identifying information for a specific client. So, we want to help our customers and our developers be compliant with GDPR for their end users, so if their end users come to them and say "hey, I was connected to this network, but I want to be forgotten now, I want you to delete all my data," they can do that programmatically using an API. So, it's the kind of entire spectrum, right? It's building the awareness, building the product suite, as well as building the tools to help developers build privacy applications as well. >> That's definitely enabling the developer ecosystem, like we were talking about before. Now, what do you think is, when you talk about the industries that you're in, you know, I can see enterprises, retail, and manufacturing, and lots of different areas there, and there's probably service providers examples where they can make a lot of money, working with you guys and adding services to what they deliver to their customers. Where do you see kind of the most growth coming from, or the most interest? >> Yeah, we see the most growth coming from, kind of, a range of customers across the board, to be honest with you. Some of our traditional sweet spot verticals, that we were very strong in were distributed enterprise, retail and education because in these kinds of environments, you often have lean IT teams that want to do a lot more with a lot less. But what we've found is, our historic sweet spot was that kind of mid-market customer, you know, between 100 and 1000 employees, but over time we've been moving more and more up market, because we've been adding enterprise features, we've been really hardening and stabilizing the platform, so that can deliver enterprise networking at scale, and what we're finding now is increasingly more and more interest from that very high end premium segment of customer, you know, the Fortune 1000 companies who are saying "this is interesting for all my branch sites," or "hey, this is interesting for all my distribution centers or all my warehouses," so we're seeing growth across the board, which is why it's such an exciting time to be at Meraki. >> Raj, good luck with everything. Thanks for coming on the Cube, really appreciate it. What's next for you guys as this things evolves? More programmability, more automation? >> More of everything. We're going to be launching more products, we're going to be crafting more API's, we very recently released a new series of HD video surveillance cameras, and we're seeing a ton of very interesting IoT type of applications where those are being used in manufacturing or farming, we're getting interesting API requests for that. So, we're going to be continuing to invest heavily in our portfolio, build out more hybrid products, more software features, as well as more API calls. >> You guys are targeting the developers at the edge, on the cutting edge, pun intended-- [Raj] We hope so. >> Great stuff. IoT certainly a great opportunity for developers, you know, stuff that you couldn't do years ago are possible, certainly with the cloud and IoT, and Cisco's DevNet Create. I'm John Furrier. More live coverage here in Mountain View after this short break. (techno music)

(lively techno music) >> Announcer: Live, from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering, DevNet Create 2017. Brought to you by Cisco. >> And welcome back to theCUBE, I'm Peter Burris and this is the last of two days of great presentations here at Cisco DevNet Create. A show set up specifically to help software developers and networking professionals start to co-mingle their ideas and look at business problems differently to create new ideas, new innovations, new inventions that can change the way the world does things so that we can improve the quality of digital business and life overall. And, I'm very excited that, our last session, we actually have a real live software engineer, here on theCUBE to talk about some of the things that are happening. And it's a very important one, 'cause it's in AppDynamics. Balwinder Kaur, nice to meet you and welcome to theCUBE >> Nice to be here. Thanks, Peter! >> So, Balwinder is a principal software engineer at AppDynamics, which is a Cisco property that came in within the last year. >> Yes. >> And has been especially important in thinking about how we're going to embed additional software controls and metrics into applications to make them more network-friendly. >> Absolutely. >> Alright, so let's start off by asking you this questions, Balwinder. You're a software engineer, you're a developer. You're at this show, first inaugural show that Cisco's put forward, what do you think of it? >> I think it's very interesting that Cisco is doing something for DevOps, for the cloud, for IoT that is not completely network-focused, so, it's great. >> Well, most of the content, as Cisco said, is coming out of the community. It's coming out of contributors, and others that are part of this process. Has there been any particular theme or message that you've seen from the community as it's kind of come together that surprised you or really resonated with you? >> Well, I definitely, Since we are very new to the Cisco family, I got a chance to meet with other companies and other parts of Cisco here. And I got a better picture of how different pieces, like Jasper and Meraki and AppDynamics together can provide a wonderful insight for the customer base and that's very valuable, whether it's insights into the networking layer, application layers. Again, within the applications, whether they're web applications, Java, .NET, or they're Android, iOS and embedded application, the Internet of Thing applications, whether they're multiple applications on one box or dedicated applications. So I think it's very exciting and the potential is just immense. >> Peter Burris: AppDynamics has been at the vanguard of thinking about this notion of network-ability of applications for quite some time. As AppDynamics has evolved and matured, and you almost had an exit that went to the public and you ended up with an exit that went to Cisco. How has the audience, the community around application development responded to AppDynamic's vision of the idea of better instrumenting applications to make them more successful on networks and have networks be more appropriate for application developers? >> So... your question was quite complicated. >> Peter Burris: True. >> (laughs) >> But hey, you got five minutes. >> I will try to answer it. So, definitely, the response with AppDynamics being part of Cisco has been positive from the customers because now there's a lot of backing from a very big company and definitely there are synergies. Cisco's big in the enterprise. AppDynamics is also big in the enterprise. And as applications become more and more of the business, definitely the customers like that part. And I don't know how closely you've been following what AppDynamics does, but we've gone from just application monitoring into business IQ, different parts of your business and providing more and more intelligence to our customers, so I think it's a good place and a good time to be. >> We like to say that digital business is really how you use your data. The difference between business and digital business is the idea that data is an asset and can be applied differentially to greater serve customers. And the trend to add new digital capabilities to business means that software and data are getting embedded deeper and deeper and deeper into business pieces. Both as process, for analytics and a number of other things. And it sounds as though AppDynamics, and this is for that core sort of enterprise customers, are also being embedded more deeply in the business as software takes on more responsibility for the core and differentiating capabilities that a business performs. Is that accurate? >> That's definitely one way of putting it. We like to say, at AppDynamics, that the application is becoming the business. So we have application-focused and more and more businesses are moving into the applications space and so IT organizations are not a support function, but getting to be more of the core function. So yes, it's two ways of representing, probably, what is very close. >> Peter Burris: So as you move from monitoring to monitoring and analytics for crucial software applications, what new approaches or what new insights is your customer base gaining about how best to set up these capture points and how to use the data associated with application performance? >> So, there's different paths of the application, right? And application architectures are changing, so you need to have solutions that can cater to all of them, for example microservices is a big trend now. Containers like Docker, and so you need your monitoring solutions to be able to cater to all of that. The other piece is the depth of instrumentation, so not just in the application layer; your database, your network monitoring. So the complete suite of all of this. And then, not isolated, right? Being able to correlate all the data. And that's sort of within the data center, but the outside world we call the end-user monitoring. We have browser and Android and iOS, but we're also building solutions now for the Internet of Things, which is basically traditionally connected embedded devices, but now they're talking to cloud services. And so, definitely a lot of these things are now very developer-centric. So just like Cisco has this conference geared toward developers, yes, we definitely understand that embedded systems, they need more and more developer-centric features where they have control of what performance data to pick up, what business data to pick up, when to send the data. And so, yeah, just having the wide, rich variety of support for different platforms, different form factors and different languages also, right? And then being able to all view it in a single pane, I think that's the strength of AppDynamics. >> Peter Burris: But you also need more developers, because there's going to have to be an enormous amount of software to bring all these devices, these IoT events, and everything else we're talking about when we think about digital business in under the umbrella of an AppDynamics or related type of technology. So, bringing new developers in and having them be familiar with the value that these kind of tools can bring to the party is crucial. How is AppDynamics looking at the challenges of attracting whole new classes of application developers into the fold so that you can, in fact, have greater end-to-end visibility about how applications are performing and behaving? >> Balwinder Kaur: So, we have dedicated teams now, which are looking at increasing developer mindshare and catering to them. Also, there's, especially in this whole Internet of Things, it's a very well-understood fact around the industry that you don't have as many embedded engineers to build all the applications and that's why there is all the platforms are now coming with more support for JavaScript developers, Java, which nobody used to think could run heavily on embedded devices. It's a big player. Python, Javascript. And so, I think catering, using embedded engineers to build tools so that the web application developers can write applications that turn on embedded devices is the trend and we recognize it and absolutely support all those developers. >> Peter Burris: So time is crucial, especially at the edge, where you have to be able to ... Often an event has to happen within a certain, prescribed period of time and the round-trip can be challenging. So, what is the role that monitoring, and metering, well not so much metering, but monitoring and event-management plays as we start to deploy these more complex applications, especially IoT-like applications? >> So, I just finished the talk here, recently. And basically, at design time, just you know how they say that security has to be built in at design time? Similarly, all solutions that get deployed now need to be built in with hooks for performance-monitoring, right? If your devices are now talking to the cloud, you need to be able to know that when your hundreds and thousands of devices are there, which one of them's are suffering from a network latency problem and which ones are not. And that is where AppDynamics comes in. You put the agents there, they correlate back and they correlate to all different parts of your businesses, whether the traffic is originating from a mobile device, a browser, or it's originating from an embedded device. And I think that's performance monitoring is absolutely crucial. It's not a luxury to have any more, it is a must-have and I think, as more and more solutions get deployed into the field, the realization will be there. I think right now, people are still in the IoT world, still focused more on other problems, like security, interoperability, connectivity. But this will become a growing pain once some of the other hurdles have been bypassed. >> Well, what are some of those lessons that you learn about how you appropriately embed performance-management and monitoring hooks into applications? Where should people be looking? >> So, if you're looking at the embedded side, then people should look at definitely small footprints. Agents should be configurable. Because different devices and use cases have different expectations. Some of the devices, they only want the performance data to be sent when they are done with whatever they are designed to do. Others don't want the battery to be up, so they want the performance data to be sent when they are powered up, not in deep-sleep mode. Then again, off-line mode also varies from application to application. There are some devices that go offline for up to weeks. And they just want to store local data and upload it later on. There are others that can not store more than one hour. So basically, you are looking for agents that are configurable. The developer can control when they want to send data, when do they want to store data, how much they want to store data. Then at the back end, you should be able to correlate all this. Because in isolation, it doesn't give you the problem. There is a lot of complexity on the end-user side as well as there's a lot of complexity on the web application side, right? There are micro services, Docker containers. So any solution that provides end-to-end monitoring and then is able to correlate data across different pieces to be able to give a true picture of performance is a good solution to have. >> So we want to make sure that the agent isn't forcing particular behaviors, but is in fact responsive and fits within the environmental constraints and considerations of whatever it is that that local device does. >> Balwinder Kaur: Yes. So, you're looking for a lot of flexibility on the embedded side. There are other where auto-instrumentation and ease of use, and not necessarily development time is important. There are other factors there, but for the Internet of Things side, this is what is important. >> So as we think about increasing, as we think about the evolution over the next few years of software, to what degree does the ability to re-use software get tied back to having visibility in how software performs? Being able to move from one cloud supplier to another, have depend upon, having greater visibility into how software performs. The ability to reapply software to new roles or purposes that weren't originally anticipated, dependent upon knowing how that software performs. It seems as though an AppDynamics tool is going to have a much greater set of propositions over the course of software as opposed to just at design time. Would you agree with that? >> Yes, absolutely, right? Because, so multi-cloud is definitely one. You want to be able to see your performance data, how your business is performing, right? Because your business is the application, how is it performing as solutions move across different clouds or performance of the different cloud change. So there're already conversations about multi-cloud for sure. And then, yes, absolutely, developers getting real-time feedback of their new deployments. Did it impact the performance or not? Yes, those are going to be very important trends. >> So, we've talked a lot over the past few days about DevOps and the role that DevOps is likely to play in digital business as well as within the way the entry is evolving. Can you just relate the role that AppDynamics and, again, this class of tools has to facilitating, collaboration, and communication, and working relationships between operations and development people? >> So, we already internally, we have applications, because we had a SAS solution tool. And so we are very acutely aware of, we have to keep our systems up as well. And we are acutely aware of how, when we develop and deploy new solutions, what does it mean? How the performance can be monitored and that's a trend that definitely we are keeping an eye on. But is there something to suggest that we have tools right now? I don't think that is something that we can ta-- >> But can the data be used by both parties? Does application performance data, can it be a lingua franca? For both operations and developers-- >> Absolutely. >> As they think about making sure that, operations people saying, "This is what works." And application developer saying, "This is what I need." That data can kind of start bringing them together and giving them a common thing to talk about. >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, right? >> Well, so, one last question here. This is the first, the inaugural Cisco DevNet Create. What do you think? You looking forward to future DevNet Creates? >> Absolutely. >> And what would you like to see coming out of this show as a consumer of the information, not as a presenter? But what would you like to see more of as these communities start to co-mingle and cross-pollinate ideas? >> I think some of the things that is a friction and will stay a friction until the embedded and operations teams come closer with the IT teams. And so I think best practices from both sides; being able to know what best practices are and then brainstorming and coming up with things that work for everybody is one. And maybe put people in each other's shoes, right? Like IT Ops doesn't always understand everything about what happens on the OT side and vice versa, so you know, like putting them in a situation where they get better hands-on, like a lab, right? Where they have better hands-on experience and now I understand what they are dealing with, right? Like, the people that have never been inside a NOC and they now can sit there and experience some of that. >> Which is not the most fun thing in the world to do. (laughs) >> Yeah, so then we need to make it more fun, right? >> (laughs) Yes. A NOC as World of Warcraft. >> (laughs) >> Alright, so, Balwinder Kaur, thank you very much. >> Thanks, Peter. >> Balwinder Kaur is the principal software engineer, or a principle software engineer at AppDynamics. And this is it, guys. Two days of Cisco DevNet Create. It's been a very successful conference. We've talked about some fascinating things. A lot of sessions on talking about DevOps. A lot of sessions on multi-cloud and the role that software's going to play inside businesses, digital business transform. This has been theCUBE. More of this in upcoming shows. Thank you very much for watching us over the course of the past couple days. For John Furrier, Peter Burris. Thanks for watching. (upbeat techno music) >> Hi, I'm April Mitchell and I'm the Senior Director of Strategy...

>> Announcer: Live from San Francisco, it's The Cube covering DevNet Create 2017 brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome back here, we're live here in San Francisco for SiliconANGLE's the Cube's exclusive 2 days of coverage for Cisco's inaugural event DevNet Create, building on their 3 year old successful DevNet program which is Cisco core developer program now foraying out into the world of cloud native developers, open source, great move for Cisco. Our next guest, Wissam Ali-Ahmad, lead solutions architect with Splunk. Good to see you. >> Good to see you too, John. >> Here with Peter Burris of course, my co-host. >> Wissam: Hi, Peter. >> So Splunk being here is an important thing because you guys have been riding the wave for cloud, certainly your relationship with Amazon web service is well known, very successful. Splunk as a company went public, well known. You guys really, really hit a niche around big data and how cloud has helped you guys accelerate your business. So you've been transformed, but continuing to grow, so you're riding that wave, but now Cisco's on the wave, and Cisco's been involved in the wave. But from a relationship standpoint, oh yeah, we're the networking guys, we're going to come in and help Docker with this, we're going to come in and help Splunk with this, so they've been kind of a helper, not the main player. This is a new way to get back in and be really enabled for the cloud world. What's your reaction to this move by Cisco? >> I mean, we have a great partnership with Cisco for many years. And I think, you know, Splunk plays a good, as you said, we're a good player there. We integrate well. I mean, all the initiatives Cisco's involved with, we have integrations with Cisco on many levels with different technology. And also Splunk, the deal is with Splunk is that you need to bring invisibly to everything, and Splunk is that platform where you have access to all that data throughout all, all is like all that machine data so you have access to all that data, not only application data, not only network data. You need to look at everything these days. Especially when there's attacks. You know we heard recently, of course everybody heard about WannaCry, and to the tech, that attack, you need to look at everything, because you could someone bring in a laptop behind the firewall even, and they can be affected already, and if you don't have access to see what they're doing, not just from a network perspective, like what apps in the cloud they're accessing, you know, what other files on the locally, so, because you have access to all that data in Splunk, you should be able to get better visibility. >> And you guys have a unique position in the sense that you're close, again, to the machine. You know, logs and data We had Amanda on from Cisco, who was, in her tribe as a developer, she's not necessarily a network engineer, but she's brought on that mojo in from the developer community. When she was first day on the job, you know, they were doing some Python, some rest API stuff, you know, basic 101 stuff, but she didn't want to do an app that was showing hey, how many Twitter followers do I have? She had to go in and look at the devices. So now the opportunity with IOT is that for Cisco to make and expose the network for programmability >> Wissam: Right. >> And extend it. How are they going to do that? I mean you're closer to those guys in your relationship, but that's what everyone wants. They want the infrastructure to just go, that's DevOps >> Right. Yeah, they want the edge to come to them. They want data to be more accessible to all the users. And then so Cisco's on that path, definitely on that path, to get more infrastructure visibility in the data center and the networks, so they're definitely on that path of doing that. >> And let me build on this, so if we think about the various components associated with some of the things that Splunk does. A leader in the application of machine and AI and big data related technologies, to solving business problems. The algorithms for doing this have been around for a long time. The hardware couldn't do it, so you had to write really tight software to do it, and you were one of the first companies out there to really do that. And then it was, we'll point all that at sources of data, that you can apply these technologies, to create better business value. And there were two places where people did it. Web logs, for online marketing, and IT, since IT technology throws off an enormous amount of data. So as I think about it, the relationship with Cisco is especially interesting, because Cisco is going to be one of those companies that encourages people to create new sources of data and a lot of it, IOT and other places, and bring it back to companies and technologies that have a proven track record for generating value out of that data. So talk a bit about how Splunk intends to, going back to what John said, riding that wave. The algorithms are here, the hardware can do it, now we've got to get access to more of the data, and here comes Cisco being really serious about moving a lot of data around. What do you think? >> I mean, we like when people bring in a lot of data into Splunk. We also have been focusing a lot on the personas. On the, we call the Sherlock, the data Sherlock. Right, so that unique persona is where they need to look at, how do I make sense of my data? Not only just about bringing data, but how do I make sense of that data. What are solutions? What are use case I need to have better impact on the business? So we're actually helping solve real kind of business use cases. This morning, Yelp had a webinar about how they use Splunk driving all the web infrastructure for Yelp, the Yelp back end for all their-- >> Peter: This is still in the IT? >> Yeah. >> Peter: It's not Yelps marketing group, this is still in the IT? >> But they are correlating that with other business use cases, yes. >> Of course, it will start coming together. So where do you see some of these use cases popping up, now that Cisco is helping to create those new sources, and get people to, you know, acculturating people to the idea that these are sources of value, business value. Where do you see some of the new use cases? >> There's a lot of use cases now coming up around business analytics, around IOT as you mentioned. And an added element of machine learning across different data sources. So if I want to look at not just performance of one service, let's say my elevator, I want to see how that's going to affect other areas of my business, too. So you're able to see not only the power of correlating that data, but also be able to apply machine learning on that data. So there's a lot of use cases around business analytics. Security's always there, because security, as you know, attack vectors are getting complex every few months or so, so you need to also chase that, and you need to look at all the data, the behaviors in that data, to get better predictability, to get better prevention detection. >> So Splunk is emerging as a great software company for a lot of IT pros, but it still is more in the op side. How is this conference and the likelihood or the notion that developers are increasingly going to be part of that use case, it's utilizing data and data-related services to better understand operations, but find new ways of creating value out of the capabilities provided by that. What's the developer angle here for Splunk? >> Great question. We actually are focusing a lot on developer tools. So Splunk, being a platform. I always say Splunk is a full-feature platform for machine data and big data. So it's open in the sense that developers can develop their own content on Splunk. They can extend what we have. So an example of that is, the recent project called Mexico Contaro. So that's a project full that's looking at internet usage and coverage on Mexico, in Mexico City and across all the cities. And this was using Splunk to end Meraki API's, and bring all that data together, and network data to try to give exposure to kind of like government analytics. And that's a neat case because not necessarily only IT, but also helping all the goods out there. >> So Cisco, Meraki and other sources, plus Splunk to be able to get deep visibility into a number of ways, you know, a very complex system like Mexico City, which is about as complex as you get, actually operates. >> Wissam: Yes. That's one, yeah. >> Tell about the Splunk direction now, because everyone's been questioning about the public offering, because you're not putting numbers out there, active community, it's not that you guys aren't being transparent, but you've got to go to the next level of growth. Obviously Cisco's coming at the cloud native world. We see the cloud native compute foundation, really with great support of the Linux foundation. New open source stuff's going on all the time. How is Splunk looking at the future right now? What's next? I mean obviously security, we heard that at Dot Conf last year, but you guys have really a good position with the data. You have good account names. You've got great blue chip customers. What's next? What's the product solution look like for you guys? What's the new architecture? What's the new plan? >> I think more listening, looking at all the scale, and cloud and listen to the customers, making the data onboarding easier, making it more scalable, covering more use cases that we talked about. Innovate a lot of areas around machine learning, all that to cover more of the use cases, so we're definitely moving forward to go the next step beyond just-- >> So let's take another example. So DevOps, right, everyone loves the DevOps. It's not like a solution, you can't buy DevOps, you just got to do it, right? So that's pretty clear. You can't just write an Agile manifesto and say, "We're DevOps." You got to have a vision, maybe write a manifesto just to get the people motivated, but put the right people in place, let the things organically develop. So the question is, what is an ideal architecture, and what is a best practice, from your standpoint, where you've seen examples of people who've transformed into this DevOps world, where they really got the ball rolling, got some change happening, and then scaled it. Can you give us a kind of a pattern that you've seen the customers? >> I have not seen personally a lot of that, but definitely there's transformation happening. It's not easy to move into that DevOps switch. You cannot do it overnight. So you need as much as possible tools that would actually give exposure, how am I doing, right? Am I pushing my code at the speed it's expected to be? Do I have bugs addressed early on? So that kind of exposure you need a system that will give you basically to analyze all that data too, and then at Splunk we have a story on DevOps. DevOps and application exposure monitoring and that. And the unique thing about Splunk is that you don't only look at what's inside the application, which was AMP's that do application management, but you should look at everything, so we look outside the black box. Not inside the app, but look at outside too, so we're going to give you exposure of your whole DevOp process You know, from the beginning, the whole condis integration, so I see Splunk helping organizations moving into that kind of new process. >> But there's an interesting relationship between tools and process, or tools and skills, so John, you'll probably laugh at this. Many years ago I found myself sitting in a room with the CEO of a very, very large pharmaceutical, me and a group of other other consultants, and he said, the discussion was, are we going to buy SAP or not? And after two hours of people arguing about it, he finally said, "Screw it, we're doing it, "I'm sick and tired of these process arguments. "We're just going to do what SAP says in the process." There's a relationship between the practices suggested by Splunk and the types of things that a business actually does in a DevOps sense. What is this, how is Splunk changing the notion of DevOps, and how is now as Splunk extends itself, how is DevOps and new practices and new ways of thinking, altering the way that Splunk delivers capability? >> I mean, we always listen to our customers. And then we've actually been looking at addressing use cases, like on DevOps, from a persona aspect. Like as a DevOp engineer, I won't be able to address this kind of issues, and we listen to that, and we try to address those, not only just by a tool, but also by looking at best practices around that. And sometimes we manifest those through apps. So Splunk can actually, you can publish an app as a developer if you're not happy as a customer, you can modify, take one of our existing free apps, and then modify them cue on process, so we're not kind of specific rigid to certain way, and I know DevOps, and Agile Ward, is not even like a religion, you know, you're not supposed to follow, you're supposed to be flexible in certain areas, and even implementing DevOps comes in Agile way too. >> But it's still pedagogical, and John in many respects, there's your manifesto for DevOps, right? Is your choice of tools and how they come together, and degree to which they're integrated kind of take priority. >> Well, you got eight minutes until you have to go up on stage and do your talk. Here we're live in San Francisco. What are you going to be speaking about when you hit the stage in eight minutes? You have seven minutes to explain (laughs). >> (Laughs) Deliver pitch. So I'll be focusing a lot on the integrations that we have with various Cisco products, so we have, with Splunk you're able to bring in a lot of the API, data through API integrations, so I'm going to show how easy that process is to bring that data if you have an API like Meraki or ACI or Ice. And I'll also be focusing more on how the data you can do it from the cloud, easy, without having an agent involved, without having any software you need to install to collect the data, and we'll be talking more about the Mexico Contaro case, and then do some fun live demos also. >> But Cisco's got good API's, people might not know that, but they are API'd up pretty well on the equipment and the gear and the platform. >> Yes, of course. >> Just commentary on that, your reaction to share for people who are not fluent in Cisco, in terms of their enablement of getting data out? >> Yes, Cisco has a lot of good API's, capabilities around sharing that data, the openness of it has been great, and made easy for us, even for our customers to bring that data, the API, that data into Splunk, so it's a matter of a few minutes now to point to that API and bring that data into Splunk, and yeah, that's good. >> Wissam Ali-Ahmad, going on stage in seven minutes, you got it all done, congratulations. Thanks for coming on The Cube. I know you've got your big speech here to the packed house. Inaugural event here, Cisco's DevNet Create. Thanks for coming on The Cube. >> Thank you, John. >> More live coverage here in San Fransciso. This is The Cube, I'm John Furrier, with my co-host Peter Burris. Stay with us as we get down to wrapping up day two. Stay with us for more coverage after this short break. >> Hi, I'm April Mitchell, and I'm the senior directory of strategy and plan

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering DevNet Create 2017. Brought to you by Cisco. (upbeat techno music) >> Hello everyone, welcome back to our live coverage here in San Francisco for Cisco Systems' inaugural DevNet Create event. I'm John Furrier sitting with my co-host Peter Burris, Head of Research at Wikibon.com. Our next guest is Jose Bogarin, Chief Innovation Officer, Altus Consulting, VIP here at Cisco DevNet Create. Welcome to theCUBE. >> Thank you. >> So tell your story, you have a really special story of true transformation, where DevNet and being a developer in this new world order has changed things for you. >> Yeah, actually people from Cisco call it a rags to riches story. Basically I founded my company 10 years ago with my brother and a friend. And business was going good, but we were having some trouble competing with the larger Cisco partners in Costa Rica. So that's why we decided to do something else and software was the way to go. So three years ago I had the opportunity participate in the first DevNet Zone in Cisco Live in San Francisco in 2014. And that really was a turning point for my company because we actually shifted our focus to the software and software development and that really pushed us forward and really allowed us to compete with those big partners, but also expand our business to some other parts of Latin America. So now we're doing stuff also in Mexico, and doing stuff in Peru, and even thinking about coming to the States and doing some software developing here. >> You're like, taking over the world. So take us through specifically the inflection point. Obviously DevNet, you had an internal compass, you felt that, kind of the tailwind of the marketplace pretty, not obvious to everyone, but you guys saw it. What was the moment where you go wow, we're on to something with this? >> Yeah, it's probably hard to say because it's less, like, different moments. The first one I think is reading Andreessen Horowitz, >> Peter: Andreessen Horowitz? >> Yeah, exactly. >> Peter: The Venture capitalist. >> Yeah reading their blog post about softwares in the world. So that was a blog post in 2011 I think. But we read about it in maybe 2013. And we started thinking, hey, maybe the way to go is actually to do some software by ourselves and figure out if we can actually improve the Cisco solutions that we are selling right now using software. So, we basically used that and then we came to the San Francisco 2014 DevNet Zone and said, hey, now Cisco has a program around this, so maybe yeah, software is the way to go. Maybe software is the way to actually go ahead and innovate, and do some other stuff to better serve our customers. So that's when we actually went back home and doubled down around on our strategy. And started developing more software, and having more conversations with our clients that we were able to solve using Cisco technology and Cisco hardware, but also develop software around it. >> Why did customers resonate with your story? Was it because you had a unique differentiator? What specifically did you do with Cisco that made it such a high impact value proposition? >> Okay, one of the things that I really like about Cisco is they have a very robust infrastructure, but it's sometimes, or you need special integrations to really solve a business need for a customer. So a lot of customers that we had, really had maybe the hardware or the platform, for example the Cisco Contact Center, but there's a gap between having the infrastructure and really solving that business need. So when we got there and told them, hey, maybe we can have those skills, or we are building those skills in our company to bridge that gap, that really made the difference with our customers. And that's our whole business in past three or four years has really been about that basically. >> And so it gave you an opportunity to get into that market and just have good products, great! What was the biggest learnings that you've had over that journey? What's the learnings you could share with folks watching? >> Okay, the first of all that it's a complete shift in your company. If you've been selling hardware, and now developing software. It's two different worlds completely. I don't want to say it's easier to sell hardware, but it's maybe more complicated to develop software. It has to be a whole different process because when you are selling hardware, you're basically doing the design and then just buying the hardware from Cisco and then selling it to your customer. But when you're developing software you have to have your team ready, develop probably three, four, five months, or even six months in advance. And then get that solution to the customer. So it takes a while and you have to change all your business, you have to change your practice. It's difficult. I know that a lot of partners are trying to move in that way and develop more software, but to be honest it's not that easy. You have to have a lot of commitment from management to actually make it. >> But I presume you're developing software not just for the hardware in terms of management, or something like that. Are you also looking at WebEx, and TelePresence, and the full suite of Cisco products as you start thinking about how you're developing solutions for your customers? Is that kind of the direction you're taking? Obviously on top of the hardware. Is that kind of the direction you're taking? >> Yeah, we actually started more around Contact Center and then mainly around collaboration so, WebEx presence and now even Cisco Spark. That was our focus for the first maybe three years and now we're starting to do stuff around networking, like traditional networking like routers, switching, or stuff like AP Key M or CMX for the wireless part, or even Meraki gear. So we started in collaboration but now we're expanding our business to other parts within the Cisco portfolio. >> As you think about this message of how the network, which has now become programmable, so in other words you can use software to define and reconfigure, rapidly reconfigure the network, are you also then seeing yourselves working not just with the traditional network people within the companies you're selling to, but also developers in showing how the network is offering a more superior, or extending the quality of the target that they're writing to as they write software? >> Yeah, and it's quite interesting. And coming from that Contact Center side, our conversations moved from IT to the supervisors and teams supervising the Contact Center, and now going to networking we'll probably have to move the conversations from the operations team now to the development team. So when you start developing software you actually have to go to the line of business, or to teams different from that operational team that you used to talk to. >> I was going to say, that's probably one of the reasons why it becomes more complex. That the change management challenges, and a partner has to fit into those for installing a new switch, or installing a new router is one thing. But the change management practices of going in and evolving the way a Contact Center operates, and I know Costa Rica is one of the places where, at least here in the US, it serves Spanish speaking communities here in the US. That's a pretty significant challenge. There's a lot of change management things that have to happen there. To be dragged into those is not a trivial exercise, but it also points up the need for more intelligent, higher-rope, more easy to manage, more robust types of networking interfaces. Where do you see the network going as a resource for developers to hit? >> I can say that it has to become easier to program the network because right now you have a lot of technologies, but they're still not there yet. You still need a lot of network background to actually use them, and some of them are not very flexible. So those technologies need to evolve for the developers to actually use them. And I see that coming in the next few years and Cisco's made a lot of progress in that. And also what we're seeing it's that need to improve the analytics and information that you can get from the network. And again Cisco, for example, has made a lot of progress in that. >> John: Well, AppDynamics. >> Exactly. With things like AppDynamics, or for example, APIs like Data in Motion, or the whole thought computing process that they have and that needs to improve for the developers to actually start getting more use out of it. >> What's next for you now that you see DevNet Create? They're puttin' their toe in the water, doing a good job here. First inaugural event. Does this have legs, this event? Yeah, yeah, I've seen it. I wasn't there during first DevNet Zone in 2014 and I've seen the growth from 2014 to 2015 in San Diego, and then Vegas, and then Vegas this year. So I've seen that grow in the DevNet Zone. I'm completely confident that the DevNet Create is going to get bigger and bigger in the coming years because I've seen how other teams, networking teams, operational teams, like people from Data Center, traditional like computer teams, they're starting to get more interested in software development and events like this. >> So based on your first signals of the first year of DevNet, which you walked in and transformed your business, you feel a similar vibe here? >> Oh yeah, yeah, totally, yeah, completely. You get that vibe of people learning, people start to say hey, Cisco's really actually sponsoring this and is actually putting their money where their mouth is. They're actually investing-- >> And the content's good. That's to me, the tell is the content. >> Peter: It's called walkin' the walk. >> Yeah, exactly, they're really, really helping the developers and you can see that. >> Well, let's hope that it translates to the core of Cisco because it's a huge company. The network engineers in the past, their diversion of developer was using Voice-over-IP. Those worlds are over, not over, but they're subsumed by cloud, right. Cloud is changing everything. So what are you most excited about right now as an entrepreneur, recovered, you're back on your way, rags to riches, talk of the town. As you look out on the horizon, the 20 mile stare. What are you excited about that are enabling you to go out and do what you're doing, what technologies? >> Yeah, well probably I know that some of them it's like buzz words, like IoT and cloud and machine learning and even blockchain. But actually having those technologies at hand, and it's not like you have to choose every one of them but actually use them, some of them, to actually build a better product or better service to your customers. It's something that really excites me. And again, it's something that Cisco's really investing in. So getting that traditional Cisco mold, it's like networking or Contact Center and actually improve those technologies with machine learning or some IoT technology, I think that's the way forward. And we're actually doubling down our investment in those technologies. >> Jose, thanks so much for coming on CUBE, sharing your story, I really appreciate it. Congratulations. >> Thank you, thank you so much. >> Peter: And you've got to get us down to Costa Rica. >> Sure, anytime. >> We've got to get down there. Half of Palo Alto goes down there, so we might as well Peter. (laughing) Seriously, thanks for coming on, great to have you. It's theCUBE live coverage in San Francisco for Cisco's inaugural event, DevNet Create. Building on the popular, only three year old DevNet program. I'm John Furrier, with Peter Burris with theCUBE. Stay tuned for more live coverage. Stay with us after this short break. (upbeat techno music) >> Hi I'm April Mitchell and I'm the Senior Director of Strategy and Plan.

>> Narrator: Live from San Francisco it's The Cube. Covering Devnet Create 2017. Brought to you by Cisco. >> Welcome back everyone. Live in San Francisco this is The Cube's exclusive coverage of Cisco Systems inaugural DevNet Create event an augmentation, extension and build upon their successful three year old DevNet Developer Program. Our next guest is Amanda Whaley who's the director of development experience at Cisco DevNet. Congratulations Amanda on one DevNet being successful for three years and now your foray into DevNet Create which is some call it the hoodie crowd, the cloud native developers, open source, completely different animal but important. >> Yes. >> From DevNet. >> Absolutely so the hoodie crowd is more my tribe that's my background is from software development and I came to Cisco because I was intrigued when they reached out and said we want to start a developer community, we want to start a developer program. I talked to Suzie Wee for a long time about it and what was interesting to me was there were new problems to solve in developer experience. So we know how to do rest APIs, there's a lot of best practices around how you make those easy for developers to use. How you make very consumable and developer friendly and there's a lot of work to do there but we do know how to do that. When you start adding in hardware so IOT, network devices, infrastructure, collaboration, video, there's a lot of new interesting developer experience problems to solve. So I was really intrigued to join Cisco bringing my software developer background and coming from more the web and startup world, coming into Cisco and trying to tackle what's this new connection of hardware plus software and how do we do the right developer experience around... >> Okay so I have to ask you what was your story, take us through the day in the life as you enter in to Cisco, you have Suzie wooed you in you got into the tractor beam 'cause she's brilliant she's awesome and then you go woah I'm in Cisco. >> Amanda: Yeah! >> You're looking around what was the reaction? >> So what was interesting was so DevNet started three years ago at Cisco live we had our first DevNet developer zone within Cisco Live. That was actually my first day at Cisco so my first day at Cisco. >> Peter: Baptism by fire. >> Yes absolutely and so that was my first day at Cisco and Suzie talked to me and she said hey there's a lot of network engineers that want to learn how to code and they want to learn about rest APIs. Could you do like a coding 101 and start to teach them about that so literally my first day at Cisco I was teaching this class on what's a rest API, how do you make the call, how do you learn about that and then how do you write some Python to do that? And I thought is anyone interested in this that's here? And I had this room packed with network engineers which I at that time I mean I knew some networking but definitely nothing compared to the CCIEs that were in the audience. >> John: Hardcore plumber networking guys. >> Yeah very very yeah. And so I taught the course and it just like caught on like wildfire they were so excited about because they saw this is actually pretty accessible and easy to do and one thing that stood out was we made our first rest call from Python and instead of getting your twitter followers or something like that it retrieved a list of network devices. You got IP addresses back and so it related to their world and so I think it was very fortunate that I had that on my first day 'cause I had an instant connection to what that community... >> They're like who is she's awesome come on! >> Co-Ost: Gimme that code! >> You're like ready to go for a walk around the block now come on kindergartners come on out. No but these network guys they're smart >> Really smart. so they can learn I mean it's not like they're wet behind the ears in terms smarts it's just new language for them. >> And that was the point of the class was like you guys are super smart you know all of this you just need some help getting tarted on this tooling. And so many of them I keep up with them on Twitter and other places and they have taken it so far beyond and they just needed that start and they were off to the races. So that's been really interesting and then the other piece of it has been working in our more app developer technologies as developer experience for DevNet I get to work across collaboration, IOT, Networking, data center like the whole spectrum of Cisco technologies. So on the other side in application we have Cisco Spark they have javascript SDKs and it's very developer friendly and so that is kind of going back to my developer tribe and bringing them in and saying to you want to sell to the enterprise, do you want to work with the enterprise, Cisco's got a lot to offer and there's a lot of interesting things to do there. >> Yeah a lot of them have Cisco networks and gear all around the place so it's important. Now talk about machine learning and AI the hottest trend on the planet right now in your tribe and in developer tribe a lot of machine learning going on and machine learning's been around data center, networking guys it's not new to them either so that's an interesting convergence point. IOT as a network device. >> Amanda: Right right. >> So you got IOT you got AI and machine learning booming, this seems like it's a perfect storm for the melting pot of... >> It really is so today in my keynote I talked a little bit about first of all why have I always liked working with the APIs and doing these integrations and I've always thought that it's what I like about it is the possibility you have a defined set of tools or Legos and then you can build them into whatever interesting thing you want to and I would say right now developers have a really interesting set of Legos, a new set of Legos because with sensors, whether that's an IOT sensor or a phone or a video camera or a piece of a switch in your data center a lot of those you can get information from them. So whatever kind of sensor it is plus easy connectivity and kind of connectivity everywhere plus could computing plus data equals like magic because now you can do now machine learning finally has enough data to do the real thing. My original background was chemical engineering and I actually did predictive model control and we did machine learning on it but we didn't have quite enough data. We couldn't store quite enough of it, we didn't have enough connectivity we couldn't really get there. And now it's like all of my grad school dreams are coming true and you can do all these amazing things that seemed possible then and so I think that's what DevNet Create has been about to me is getting the infrastructure, the engineers, the app developers together with the machine learning community and saying like now's the time there's a lot of interesting things we can build. >> And magic can come out of that. >> Magic yeah right! >> And you think about it that's chemical reaction. The chemistry of bringing multiple things together and there's experimentation sometimes it might blow up. >> Amanda: Hopefully not! >> Innovation you know has is about experimentation and Andy Jassy at Amazon web services I mean I've talked to him multiple times and him and Jeff Bezos consistently talk about do experiments try things and I think that is the ethos. >> It is and that is particularly our ethos in DevNet in fact in DevNet Create an experiment right a new conference let's get people together and start this conversation and see how it comes together. >> What's your reaction to the show here? The vibe your feeling? Feedback your getting? Observations. >> I'm so happy it's been great. I had someone tell mt today that this was the most welcome they had felt at any developer conference that they'd been to and I took that as a huge complement that they felt very comfortable, they liked the conversations they were having they were learning lots of new information so I think that's been good and then I think exactly that mix of infrastructure plus app developer that we were trying to put together is absolutely happening. I see it in the sessions I see it in the birds of a feather and there's a lot of good conversations happening around that. >> Question for you that we get all the time and it comes up on crowd chat I'd like to ask you the question just get your reaction to is what misperception of devops is out there that you would like to correct? If there could be one and you say you know it's not that what's your... >> The one that seems the most prevalent to me and I think it's starting to get some attention but it's still out there is that devops is just about about the tools. Like just pick the right devops tools. Docker docker docker or use puppet and chef and you're good you're devopsing and it's like that is not the case right? It's really a lot more about the culture and the way the teams work together so if there was anything I could, and the people right, so it's flipping the emphasis from what's the devops tool that you're using to how are you building the right culture and structure of people? That's the one I would correct. >> Suzie was on yesterday and Peter and Suzie had a little bit of a bonding moment because they recognize each other from previous lives HP and his old job and it brought up a conversation around what Peter also did at his old job at Metagroup where he talked about this notion of an infrastructure engineer and what's interesting. >> Peter: Infrastructure developer. >> I mean infrastructure developer sorry. That was normally like a network engineer. So the network engineer's now on the engineering side meeting with developers almost like there seems I can't put my finger on it just like I can feel it my knee weather patterns coming over that a new developer is emerging. And we've talked a little bit about it last night about this what is a full stack developer it doesn't stop at the database it can go all the way down to the network so you're starting to see the view a little bit of a new kind of developer. Kind of like when data science emerged from not being an analyst but to being an algorithms specialist meets data person. >> Right I think it's interesting and this shows up in a lot of different places. When I think about devops I think about this spectrum of the teams working and there's the infrastructure teams who are working on the most deepest layer of the infrastructure and you kind of build up through there into the Devops teams into the app dev teams into maybe even something sort of above the app dev team which would be like a low code solution where you're just using something like build.io or something like that. Something that we wouldn't normally think of as developers right. So that spectrum is broadening on both ends and people are moving down the stack and moving up the stack. The network engineers one of the things in DevNet we're working on is what we call the evolution of the network engineer and where is that going and network engineers have had to learn new technology before and now there's just a new set which includes automation and APIs and configuration management, infrastructures, code and so they're moving up the stack. And then developers are also starting to think I really want my application to run well on the network because if no one can use it then my application's not doing anything and so things like the optimized for business that we have with Apple where a developer can go in through an SDK and say I want to set these QOS settings so that my app gets treatment like that's a way that they're converging and I think that's really interesting. >> Peter: So one of the things that we've been working on at Wikibon I want to test this assumption by we've talked a little bit about it is the idea of a data zone. Where just as we use a security zone as a concept where everything that's in that zone and it's both the technologies there's governmental there's other types of, has this seized security characteristics and if it's going to be part of that conglomeration it must have these security characteristics. And we're no thinking you could do the same thing with data. Where you start saying so for example we talked earlier about the idea that the network is what connects places together and that developers think in terms of the places things are like the internet of things. I'm wondering if it's time for us to think in terms of the network in time or the network is time and not think in terms of where something is but think in terms of when it is. And whether or not that's going to become a very powerful way of helping developers think about the role that the network's going to play is the data available now because I have an event that I have to support now and it seems as though that could be one of those things that snaps this group, these two communities together to think it's in time that you're trying to make things happen and the network has to be able to present things in time and you have to be cognisant of in time. It's one of the reasons for example why restful is not the only way to do things. >> Right exactly. >> IOT thinks in time what do you think about that? >> Yeah I think that's really interesting and actually that's something we're diving in with our community on is so you've been a developer you've worked with rest services and now you're doing IOT well you need to learn a lot of new protocols and how to do things more in real time and that's a skill set that some developers maybe don't have they're interested in learning so we're looking at how do we help people along that way. >> John: Well data in motion is a big topic. >> Exactly yeah absolutely. And so I think and then the network, thinking about from a network provider like I need this data here at this time is very interesting concept and that starts to speak to what can be done at the edge which is obviously like an interesting concept for us. >> But also the role the network's going to play in terms of predicatively anticipating where stuff is and when it needs to be there. >> Yeah yeah I think that's a really interesting space. >> But it's programmable if you think about what' Cisco's always been good at and most network and ops guys is they've been good at policy based stuff and they really they know what events are they have network events right things happen all the time. Network management software principles have always been grounded in software so now how do you take that to bridging against hat's why I see a convergence. >> Amanda: We should have a conference around that. >> It's called DevNet Create. Okay so final question for you as you guys have done this how's your team doing with the talks was one going on behind us is a birds of a feather IOT session you've got a hack-a-thon over here. Pretty cool by design that we heard yesterday that it's not 90% Cisco it's 90% community 10% Cisco so this is not a Cisco coming in and saying hey we're in cloud native get used to us we're here you know. >> Absolutely not so it's I'm really proud of how my team came together around that so I have our team of developer evangelists who we connect with the developer community and we really look at our job as this full circle of we get materials out and learning and get people excited about using Cisco APIs and we also bring information back about like here's what customers think about using it, here's what the community's doing all of that. So when we started DevNet Create we set the stake in the ground of we want this to be way more community content than our content we produce ourselves. And so the evangelists did a great job of reaching out into communities, connecting with speakers, finding the content that we wanted to highlight to this audience and bringing it in so that the talks have been fabulous, the workshops have been a huge hit it's like standing room only in there and people getting a seat and not wanting to leave because they want to keep their seat and so they'll stay for four workshops in a row you know it's been amazing. >> I think it's great it's exciting for me to watch 'cause I know the developer goodness is happening. People are donating soft we see Google donating a lot of open source even Amazon on the machine learning you guys have a lot of people that open source but I got to ask you know within Cisco and it's ecosystem of a company we see a lot or Cisco on our Cube events that we go to. We go to 100 events last year we've been to 150 this year. We saw Dehli and Ciro we saw some Cisco folks there. Sapphire there's a deal with Century Link and Honna Cloud, Enterprise Cloud so there's Cisco everywhere. There's relationships that Cisco has, how are you looking at taking DevNet Create or are you going to stay a little bit decoupled, be more startup like and kind of figure that scene out or is that on the radar yet? >> So I think we know with starting DevNet Create for this first year what we really want to do is get foundation out there, stake in the ground, get a community started and get this conversation started. And we're really looking to in the iterative experimental way look at what comes out of this year and where the community really wants to take it. So I think we'll be figuring that out. >> John: So see what grows out of it. It's a thousand flowers kind of thing. >> Yeah and I think that it will be, we will always have the intention of keeping that we want to keep the mix of audience of infrastructure and app and we'll see how that grows so... >> Well Amanda congratulations to you, Rick and Suzie and the teams. I'd like to get some of those experts on the Cube interviews as soon as possible. >> Absolutely! >> And some crowd chats. You guys did an amazing IOT crowd chat. I'll share that out to the hashtag. >> That was really fun. >> Very collaborative you guys are a lot of experts and Cisco's got a lot of experts in hiding behind the curtain there you're bringing them out in public here. >> That's right. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you very much. >> We're here live with special inaugural coverage of DevNet Create, Cisco's new event. Cloud native, open source, all about the community. Like The Cube we care about that and we'll bring you more live coverage after this short break. >> Hi I'm April Mitchell and I'm the Senior director of Strategy and Planning for Cisco.